# Army OKs women as spec ops aviators



## Swill (Jan 11, 2013)

Carpe diem!

http://www.armytimes.com/mobile/news/2013/01/army-oks-women-specops-aviators-011113w


----------



## HoosierAnnie (Jan 11, 2013)

I can think of a whole different use for THIS info


----------



## AWP (Jan 11, 2013)

Holy fuck. I thought this was a Duffelblog article.


----------



## Swill (Jan 11, 2013)

Free, it is. On Bizarro world.

Different birds have different physical requirements to fly them. 47s are physically "easier" to "fly" than 6s, for a number of reasons. If the leadership is serious about maintaining one standard, and I believe John Evans when he says that, then I'd wager that MH47s will be the first to have a female. Little Birds, last.

"Admit that the waters around you have grown, and accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone."


----------



## LibraryLady (Jan 11, 2013)

Swill said:


> ... "Admit that the waters around you have grown, and accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone."


 
Where's that ^ from?

LL


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jan 11, 2013)

A Bob Dylan song, according to the Google.

The Times They Are A-Changin'


----------



## Ravage (Jan 12, 2013)

Please let'em be hot, please let'em be hot, please let'em be hot....


----------



## goon175 (Jan 12, 2013)

This makes too much sense...as long as they are serious about keeping the very high standards of the 160th. My only concern would be that they shove some females through just to say they have some female pilots, but as long as that doesn't happen I'm all for this.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 12, 2013)

Photos or it never happened!


----------



## ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 (Jan 12, 2013)

Ravage said:


> Please let'em be hot, please let'em be hot, please let'em be hot....


 
The first two are! Well cute and hot!

Do both at either end realise that they are wearing the same outfits...!? :-"


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

> By Joe Gould - Staff writer





> Posted : Friday Jan 11, 2013 12:14:48 EST
> 
> Women have been cleared for Army special operations.​The Army is recruiting women to become pilots and crew chiefs for the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment for the first time as part of its ongoing effort to expand roles for women in the service.​The move by the 160th is the result of an appeal by Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno to expand combat roles for women.​“We are looking for women to serve in the cockpit, we’ll start with a pilot [trial] program, and assuming there’s no significant issues, we’ll integrate women,” said Brig. Gen. Clayton Hutmacher, the commander of Army Special Operations Aviation Command. “We plan on going out and actively recruiting women. We’re fully supportive of this initiative.”​Women would serve as pilots of 160th aircraft and non-rated women would serve as crew chiefs in the backs of those aircraft, said Col. John Evans, the regimental commander.​Conventional aviation units are typically employed downrange frequently over longer periods, while special operations aviation units are often deployed heavily over shorter periods and in more austere conditions, with less support. Much of what the 160th does are dangerous and highly classified missions in support of special operations forces.​Women already serve as aviators and on air crews within conventional units in the aviation branch. Since the early 1990s, women have served in cavalry and attack missions that were closed to them up until that point, Evans said. Though Evans would not discuss specifics, he said women are already “doing lots of operational things in SOF.”​“This will certainly be one of the first forays for Army Special Operations Command, putting them in this type of role,” Evans said.​Hutmacher emphasized that there will be one standard for both men and women as the assessment and selection process becomes gender-agnostic.​Evans said he has informed his troops.​“As we bring these very talented female candidates into the 160th, they will understand up front that there is but one standard, and they’re going to have to meet that to be a part of the organization,” Evans said. “As I’ve talked to senior female officers in the Army, they say they would expect no less. They don’t want special consideration.”​Candidates must complete an application packet, kicking off a process that takes several months. The expectation is that by summer the 160th will assess its first female candidates.​Both Evans and Hutmacher said women will be recruited first in limited numbers and that they expect them to be fully integrated into the formation after the pilot program.​Odierno had issued broad guidance for leaders to examine which roles could be opened to women, and the question of female special operations aviators filtered down from Army Special Operations Command to Army Special Operations Aviation Command and the 160th itself.​“We’ve had them in Apaches and OH-58Ds for twenty years now. What is it about the 160th mission set you believe is unsuitable for them, and our answer is ‘Well, there’s nothing,’ “ Evans said.​Hutmacher described Army senior leaders as “very supportive” of the move. He said it was inevitable and that he was “very excited” by it.​The move is expected to aid pilot shortages, increasing the pool of available candidates, Hutmacher said.​Both Hutmacher and Evans said they have not heard any signs of displeasure from the ranks in reaction. Hutmacher said he assembled warrant officers and commanders to prepare them for the move.​“I haven’t gotten any push-back,” Hutmacher said. “If you think about it, we have already integrated gays into the military, and that, I don’t see it as a problem. We represent the values of the American people.”​“Militaries go through evolutions,” Evans said. “We have homosexuals serving in the military and there was a lot of consternation about that, it’s come to pass, and lo and behold we’ve seen little impact.”​


http://www.navytimes.com/news/2013/01/army-oks-women-specops-aviators-011113w/​​This is a big step!!! I remember when females were not allowed to work in Battalion level positions.​


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 21, 2013)

> Women have been cleared for Army special operations.


 
Ummm, women have been "cleared for SOF" for a looong time there, Joe.  The 160th has had women for a long time.  The 160th has not had women pilots, that's should the lead line.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> Ummm, women have been "cleared for SOF" for a looong time there, Joe. The 160th has had women for a long time. The 160th has not had women pilots, that's should the lead line.


Correct...


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> Ummm, women have been "cleared for SOF" for a looong time there, Joe. The 160th has had women for a long time. The 160th has not had women pilots, that's should the lead line.


Hence why they did not allow women in the Battalions while I was in, only Headquarters and Headquarters Company.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 21, 2013)

Now I'm starting to second-guess myself. When I made my first post in this thread, I was sure we had female Soldiers in my battalion (2/160). But now I can't think of a single one. Maybe I'm confusing it with Group or JSOC.

LogCinco, did we have female officers or troops in our battalion?


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> Now I'm starting to second-guess myself. When I made my first post in this thread, I was sure we had female Soldiers in my battalion (2/160). But now I can't think of a single one. Maybe I'm confusing it with Group or JSOC.
> 
> LogCinco, did we have female officers or troops in our battalion?


When I was at 1st and 4th, it was a NoGo for females. But most of us staff guys were considered females anyways so thank you......


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 21, 2013)

Wait- I know we had females at least at the Regimental level, one of the Regiment A/S2s was female.  If I think about it hard enough (or just ask my wife) I can probably remember her name.  Lauren something, maybe.  Very good at her job.  Still don't remember if we had them down at the Bn level.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

Pink.......says it all


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 21, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> Wait- I know we had females at least at the Regimental level, one of the Regiment A/S2s was female. If I think about it hard enough (or just ask my wife) I can probably remember her name. Lauren something, maybe. Very good at her job. Still don't remember if we had them down at the Bn level.


Roger that Regiment level positions, we also had a few good females working at TDSC.
Dont get confused with the Battalion Commander secretaries.


----------



## LogCinco (Jan 22, 2013)

Grimfury160 said:


> Roger that Regiment level positions, we also had a few good females working at TDSC.
> Dont get confused with the Battalion Commander secretaries.


I definitely remember Lauren, if for no other reason than that she ended up going off to JSOC, if memory serves...


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 22, 2013)

LogCinco said:


> I definitely remember Lauren, if for no other reason than that she ended up going off to JSOC, if memory serves...


 
I think she went off to Fort Livingroom after she left the Regiment.  I could be wrong though.


----------



## LogCinco (Jan 22, 2013)

MISFIRE!  I was thinking of the Group Intel female who abbreviated her time at Campbell.  I can haz a sadness.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 22, 2013)

LogCinco said:


> MISFIRE! I was thinking of the Group Intel female who abbreviated her time at Campbell. I can haz a sadness.


 
Ah yes, the one we stole from you guys in the the middle of a deployment when you were in Group.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 22, 2013)

OK, I gotta ask: All these Battalion Commander secretaries, female pilots, and Group Intel females you guys are talking about -- were they hot?


----------



## Swill (Jan 24, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I think she went off to Fort Livingroom after she left the Regiment. I could be wrong though.


 
Yeah, she got out after SOAR, much to the disappointment of a lot of folks. She was an exceptional Officer.

Since her time there have been a few other female MI Officers (all excellent) in the RS2. None of them were ever assigned to a BN, but all have deployed in direct support of HAFs. If that doesn't make sense to the readership, I understand and agree.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Jan 25, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> OK, I gotta ask: All these Battalion Commander secretaries, female pilots, and Group Intel females you guys are talking about -- were they hot?


 
I can neither confirm or deny these allegations.


----------



## Ravage (Feb 4, 2013)

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/vie...l-ops-helicopters-opening-women-Fort-Campbell

*Army special ops helicopters opening for women at Fort Campbell*









> FILE - This Sept. 21, 2011, file photo shows a helicopter being used during an urban combat demonstration at Fort Campbell, Ky. The Army's most elite aviation unit has proposed a test program to let women serve as pilots and crew chiefs, pending congressional approval. (AP Photo/Mark Humphrey, File) / AP


 
*FORT CAMPBELL, KY.* — Another one of the many military jobs on the front lines of combat may be opening to women: Flying the high-tech helicopters that move special forces under cover of darkness for missions like the one that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan.
The Army’s most elite aviation unit has proposed a test program to let women serve as pilots and crew chiefs, pending congressional approval. The 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., and known as the Night Stalkers, decided to give women a trial as pilots and crew chiefs as part of a military-wide review on gender policies last year that preceded the Pentagon’s announcement on Jan. 24 to lift a broad ban on women fighting in smaller ground combat units, which include many artillery, armor and infantry jobs.

The military announced last year that it would open up about 14,000 new jobs for women in units below the brigade level. But the aviation unit is the first among Army special operations units to move toward more unrestricted roles for women, well ahead of a 2016 deadline to integrate women across the services.
Women have been able to fly attack helicopters since the 1990s, and many women serve in the Army’s aviation brigades that have been heavily used in Iraq and Afghanistan to fire on enemy positions, transport troops in and out of hot zones and pick up the wounded on the battlefield.

Lt. Col. Dave Connolly, a spokesman for U.S. Army Special Operations Command, said women already serve in a variety of enabling jobs within special operations forces, primarily as support staff positions, such as administration and intelligence.

“This test program is a natural transition as these occupational specialties are already open to women in conventional Army Combat Aviation Brigades,” Connolly said.
Steven Hartov, an author who wrote two books about the Night Stalkers, says the regiment was created to fly nighttime special operations missions, often flying close to the ground, all over the world. The pilots who are considered for this unit have extensive combat experience as well as advanced technical skills to fly with night-vision goggles, he said.

“A lot people don’t realize the physical strength required to fly a special operations helicopter for long periods of time, in low altitude flying,” he said. “There is a physical aspect to it.”

The regiment participated in the raid by Navy SEALs on a Pakistani compound in 2011 that resulted in the death of 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden. Hartov wrote a book with former 160th pilot Michael Durant about his capture after two helicopters from the regiment were shot down during a 1993 mission in the Somalia.

Durant’s bruised and bloodied face was on the cover of Time magazine, a sight that would have been harder for Americans to bear if it had been a female pilot, Hartov noted.

“One of the things that has always been a concern within the regiment is a female pilot being shot down, captured, or tortured,” he said.
Women have served in aviation for decades in the military, dating all the way back to when women volunteered to serve as civilian pilots to ferry troops and supplies during World War II.

But the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have pushed female aviators much farther into the front lines than ever before by putting them in direct combat from the air with enemy forces or under fire as they assist troops on the ground.

As an example, U.S. Rep. Tammy Duckworth was a Black Hawk helicopter pilot in Iraq in 2004 when the helicopter was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade. She lost both her legs and partial use of one arm and received the Combat Action Badge.

At the 159th Combat Aviation Brigade also based at Fort Campbell, Ky., women serve in many different roles including pilots, flight engineers, door gunners and crew chiefs for the light OH-58D Kiowa helicopters, the heavy lifting CH-47 Chinook helicopters and the versatile UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters.

Sgt. Keesha Everett, a Chinook flight engineer, said working on a helicopter is a team effort and everyone contributes equally.

“Crew members tend to work arm-in-arm to make sure the mission gets done as quickly as possible, so we all pull the same weight as far as moving thousands upon thousands of pounds of cargo,” she said. “That’s really the most strenuous part.”

Chief Warrant Officer 2 Caroline Bernabei, of Princeton, N.J., is a Kiowa pilot who deployed last year to southern Afghanistan. She said some missions involved no combat at all.

“There were also many missions where we did get shot at, and we did have to return fire and a lot of those missions involved protecting ground forces.”
She said the job is demanding because she has to maintain her focus for sometimes as much as eight hours straight during missions. “It’s a lot more mental,” she said.

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said this week that the qualifications for these new ground combat jobs will not be lowered and acknowledged that not all women will meet them. Female aviators in the Army meet the exact same physical and professional standards as their male counterparts, from flight school all the way through their careers.

“For aviation, I can say there is absolutely no difference in standards,” said Bernabei. “I get evaluated the exact same way as any other guy would.”
But still the combat experiences between aviation and ground infantry forces are different, said Bernabei.

“Yeah, I have been in combat, and I have engaged the enemy and been engaged, but the difference is I fly a helicopter and I fly back to my base every day,” she said. “With infantry guys, I have supported numerous ones that were out in the middle of nowhere and had to ruck with a 100-pound ruck many miles back to their base, which can be very dismal conditions, to be honest.”

Everett, the flight engineer, said that while there may be concern about opening more jobs to women in the military, it’s the same as those that were voiced over allowing women to serve in the Women’s Army Corps during World War II.

“People will surprise you if you give them a chance,” she said.


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 4, 2013)

Women are normally better aviators than men. No surprise here.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 10, 2014)

We will see what happens when it happens.


----------

