# Transition to civilian EMS/medicine



## aflasa (Nov 24, 2019)

How'd it go for you? Or did you leave medicine behind?


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## Muppet (Nov 24, 2019)

I spent 5 years in the Army, 4 being active duty as a Paratrooper/medic. I was lucky enough to secure my EMT-P while at Bragg, in the 90s. I ETSd in 1999 and have been a paramedic in an urban/suburban northeast area for near 20 years. 

I'm getting tired. Cynical. Never thought the bad calls would catch up with me, but, they have. Add, lots of personal loss that many here, know about. Fortunately, therapy helps and my new wife has saved me.

EMS in the civilian world is different than military medicine. I miss the medical part of mil medicine.


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## Devildoc (Nov 24, 2019)

I did it backwards.  I was a civilian NR medic and flight medic before joining the Navy.  In the Navy I didn't "do" nearly the breadth of EMS; i.e., no/little geriatrics, ACLS, little/no peds, but the it was much deeper in primary care and trauma.

When I left active I went back to EMS but stayed in the reserves, went to nursing school, got my commission, left EMS and have been a RN since.  I was a medic/corpsman for...20 years, about 4 of those overlapping time as a nurse.

So, short answer is no, I didn't leave it behind.  It significantly enhanced what I did and am doing now, and I stay connected to military medicine through where I work.


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## Stretcher Jockey (Nov 24, 2019)

I'm currently active duty and have a job working civilian EMS on the side. I would say the two compliment each other because the patient populations are so different. Overall it is easy to get into civilian EMS if you have your NR, and veterans get hired preferentially. I've only been a paramedic for 3 years and just got my flight medic in May, so it's too early for me to walk away from the job just yet.


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## bb08 (Nov 26, 2019)

Can anyone give insight into 18D in the guard? Do qualifications transfer over into the civilian world? What I mean is can you graduate the Q as 18D and go straight into civilian med or does civilian med not recognize any 18D qualifications?


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## Arf (Nov 26, 2019)

@bb08 I have similar questions about this. I have heard that 18-D don’t get a NREMT-Paramedic certification, but they can challenge it. Also I have heard that they get a lot of college credits that they can use toward a Physician’s Assistant degree, and also that there is a bridge program for 18-D to PA.
Looking forward to an answer from one of our 18-D.

You might not care about Navy, especially since you are looking at NG, but Special Operations Tactical Medic for SEAL/SWCC gives you an NREMT-Paramedic license within the program. It’s still a new course however so there are lots of kinks to work out.


Edit: I just noticed you aren’t interested in SEAL anymore on your intro.


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## Devildoc (Nov 26, 2019)

bb08 said:


> Can anyone give insight into 18D in the guard? Do qualifications transfer over into the civilian world? What I mean is can you graduate the Q as 18D and go straight into civilian med or does civilian med not recognize any 18D qualifications?



Short answer, it depends.  I *think they aren't doing NREMTP anymore, but you can sit for the the TP-C exam (Tactical paramedic-Certified).  There really aren't jobs for that in the civilian market; most LE agencies that use tacmed use locally-sourced medics and send them to a tacmed school.  You can go from paramedic to tacmed, you cannot got ATP/TP-C to 911 medic (without bridging courses).  One of the members here just moved to 7th group and I have pinged him; he got his 18D about a year ago.

Edited to add, just heard back from our friend.  NREMTP is now part of SOCM, and is required in order to graduate.  So there's your answer.


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## bb08 (Nov 26, 2019)

Thanks for the replies. Also thanks for pinging others. Im curious what career doors 18D would open ASSUMING I make it that far.


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## Arf (Nov 26, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> Edited to add, just heard back from our friend. NREMTP is now part of SOCM, and is required in order to graduate. So there's your answer.



Hell ya, that’s great for them.


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## Devildoc (Nov 26, 2019)

bb08 said:


> Thanks for the replies. Also thanks for pinging others. Im curious what career doors 18D would open ASSUMING I make it that far.



Name your game:  911 medic, flight medic, medic-LEO (i.e., Maryland State Police, National Park Police, etc.), foundation for nursing school, foundation for undergrad for pre-med or PA school, austere medicine, contract medic (i.e., Triple Canopy, , etc.), instructor/teacher, SAR medic....

For shizzle 18D (or SOCM or PJ) will give you a skill set that can get you places.  I know a former 18D, now a psych NP.  A good friend with whom I worked at Carolina Air Care, former 18D, was a flight nurse, now a CRNA.  Another is a current 911 medic in a busy system here in NC.


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## SOSTCRNA (Nov 26, 2019)

I’m lucky I can still do what I was doing on AD and still be in the game overseas a bit with a little side contract work.


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## bb08 (Nov 26, 2019)

This is awesome news. Thanks to all for the info!


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## Muppet (Nov 28, 2019)

Pretty sure we have current 18Ds/SOCMs here too.


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## Deleted member 7960 (Dec 1, 2019)

Arf said:


> @bb08 I have similar questions about this. I have heard that 18-D don’t get a NREMT-Paramedic certification, but they can challenge it. Also I have heard that they get a lot of college credits that they can use toward a Physician’s Assistant degree, and also that there is a bridge program for 18-D to PA.
> Looking forward to an answer from one of our 18-D.
> 
> You might not care about Navy, especially since you are looking at NG, but Special Operations Tactical Medic for SEAL/SWCC gives you an NREMT-Paramedic license within the program. It’s still a new course however so there are lots of kinks to work out.
> ...



Like was previously stated, the NREMT-P is part of the course now upon return from hospital rotations. When I went through, Army personnel were required to pass before graduating and moving on. The Navy however, did not have to pass, as I’m assuming NSW/Recon/MARSOC didn’t care/didn’t want to spend the money/time on remedial training for NREMT-P failures. This could have changed, but at the very least your NRP is a requirement on the Army side.

As far as college credits, I believe SOCM plus other military training nets about 70-something college credits, but this may just be for partner schools in the DOD system/NC area. SFMS gives you a few more as well. Honestly, I should know more but I already had my bachelor’s when I went through so I didn’t really pay attention to the talks about credits/transition.

There are bridge programs, notably the PA one at UNC, nursing one at UNCG, and now there’s a new one for med school at WVU. There’s also networking within the community if one passes and can tap into the alumni network.

I won’t speak much to SOTM as I’ve never been, but that program isn’t spoken of too highly, even by folks on the NSW side. I’ve known a not-so-small number of dudes that actively fought for a SOCM slot over SOTM. If given the choice, I’d choose going to SOCM 10/10 times.


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## Devildoc (Dec 1, 2019)

BUMED and NOMI really wanted to support HMs in NSW, but NSW wanted to go off the reservation.  Big Navy has dropped them like the red-headed stepchild they are: because they aren't HMs, no MTF  recognizes their authority and they can't practice outside of NSW.  Corpsmen are proud of being corpsmen; SOTM does drive a bit of a wedge.

All that said, I don't know anything about how they are doing as a group.  I have been intrigued to see how the program was doing.


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## Arf (Dec 1, 2019)

Duke said:


> Army personnel were required to pass before graduating and moving on. The Navy however, did not have to pass



In SOTM, they make them pass Paramedic before they can graduate also. 
I’m not sure if this is what you were referring to, but they only send pinned SEAL and SWCC to SOTM, and SOCM in the past.

They aren’t offering us the choice to go to SOCM unfortunately anymore, but I wanted to go. 


@Devildoc 
It’s currently a struggle to get more credits, funding, scope of practice for SOTM, but it is something that is getting better and better with every class.
I don’t know why they limit it to SEAL and SWCC at this point of time though, but SARC would probably rather go to SOCM anyway at this point.


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## Devildoc (Dec 2, 2019)

Arf said:


> In SOTM, they make them pass Paramedic before they can graduate also.
> I’m not sure if this is what you were referring to, but they only send pinned SEAL and SWCC to SOTM, and SOCM in the past.
> 
> They aren’t offering us the choice to go to SOCM unfortunately anymore, but I wanted to go.
> ...



SARC are still corpsmen, but I could see the utility of corpsmen going through either SOTM or SOCM.  One of the values SARCs have to the broader community is to even get to SARC, they have to be 8404 (FMF corpsmen) first.  There is a common bond.  I could pull any SARC out of recon or MARSOC and put him in a line platoon, and he'd know exactly what to do.  Moreover, that rash that Marines get?  The drip after port call?  They'd know what to do.  I do hope that over time the wedge between non-HM 'medics' in NSW and the rest of the HM community will heal and the community will be more collaborative.


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## Arf (Dec 2, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> they have to be 8404 (FMF corpsmen) first




It sounds like they are giving out a specific contract out of MEPS and screening them right out of A school within the last year or less. I have a few buddies who took Corpsman contracts after BUD/S who haven’t gone FMF (one is a dental Corpsman) and he is screening for it within the next few months too.

I think the entire reason they stopped using Corpsman in the teams is purely because it takes longer to make a Corpsman, and SEAL and SWCC are now their own rates. We have FMF Corpsman attached to us but unfortunately it’s not the same thing because they are designated as “support”.
When I joined up and I realized that 1. I couldn’t go to Corpsman school, and 2. I couldn’t even go to SOCM anymore, I was upset. I wanted to be a medic and I feel like I’m not getting the most out of it that I can.
SOTM is getting better as time goes on, but the benefits will be after my time.


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## Devildoc (Dec 2, 2019)

Arf said:


> It sounds like they are giving out a specific contract out of MEPS and screening them right out of A school within the last year or less. I have a few buddies who took Corpsman contracts after BUD/S who haven’t gone FMF (one is a dental Corpsman) and he is screening for it within the next few months too.
> 
> I think the entire reason they stopped using Corpsman in the teams is purely because it takes longer to make a Corpsman, and SEAL and SWCC are now their own rates. We have FMF Corpsman attached to us but unfortunately it’s not the same thing because they are designated as “support”.
> When I joined up and I realized that 1. I couldn’t go to Corpsman school, and 2. I couldn’t even go to SOCM anymore, I was upset. I wanted to be a medic and I feel like I’m not getting the most out of it that I can.
> SOTM is getting better as time goes on, but the benefits will be after my time.



OK, so in full disclosure, I have been out a minute.  They still have to go to corps school, though, right?  So they still go to A school?  SOTM don't have to go to corps school, right? (Clarifying question, assessing my knowledge).  _Used to be_....in order to be a 8427, you had to be 8404 first, even if you screened at A school.  When I joined in the 90s, you could get a contract for 8404 to screen for SARC at FMSS (I did this, but could not pass the dive physical).  You would bypass a FMF unit and start schooling, but not until you graduated FMSS (now FMTB).

I hear you on why they did what they did.  I get it and generally support it.  I mean, why would a 10-year SEAL or SWCC who was a PN take advancement tests on what a PN would do?  It made no sense.  But HMs, at least in NSW they were still doing HM things.  I think we could see change coming.  I think the issue with BUMED/Big Navy was less than a change was needed than how they went about it.  That's from what I heard from the hallways, anyway.  I also agree 8404 attached as 'support' isn't the same thing, so that's not the answer, either.

It's all academic to me, now, anyway.  I am out and y'all are the men in the trenches.  I am glad that SOTM is making its' way.  I think the further along it gets and the better it gets, the less it'll be a 'thing' and the more normal it will be.  But let me also say something else, @Arf , it sounds like you made your way in your community.  I understand regret (the same regret I had for not being able to be a SARC), but at the same time, it didn't define me; I was the best at what I did.  I think you feel the same way about your career, too.


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## Arf (Dec 2, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> They still have to go to corps school, though, right? So they still go to A school? SOTM don't have to go to corps school, right?



Yes. Yes. And Correct, SOTM is only available to SEAL and SWCC at the moment and Corpsman (SARC or not) aren’t eligible to go. And no, SEAL and SWCC are not eligible to go to Corpsman school.




Devildoc said:


> I also agree 8404 attached as 'support' isn't the same thing, so that's not the answer, either.




This was frustrating to me, because when I first started looking at NSW, the medics were still Corpsman who went through BUD/S. Now we have Corpsman who are around to do the clinical side of things for us, and they MOSTLY just use SOCMs and SOTMs for trauma emergencies in the field.



Devildoc said:


> But let me also say something else, @Arf , it sounds like you made your way in your community. I understand regret (the same regret I had for not being able to be a SARC), but at the same time, it didn't define me; I was the best at what I did. I think you feel the same way about your career, too.




I appreciate you saying this to me, because I love my job, and I feel very fortunate that I not only had the opportunity to be where I am, but that my body held on through Selection especially because I was older.

Our command swears we are going to be utilized more and more as we assess our near peer threats but I’m considering crossing over to SF after I put my time in to get more advanced medical training I was hoping for. The fact that they bridge to PA or MD is a big deal for me, and a decision I am struggling to make.
Also, from where I am standing, it seems Army SOF are the only ones getting combat action at the moment.


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## Gunz (Dec 2, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> ...Moreover, that rash that Marines get?  The drip after port call?  They'd know what to do...


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## aflasa (Jan 28, 2020)

Update: Now working in civilian EMS part time while working towards my bachelor's. We do a mix of IFT and 911 (BLS IFT and ALS 911). I really like being on ALS trucks, and enjoy taking priority 1 calls.


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