# CrossFit Games... Fittest Alive or Best at Exercising?



## goon175 (Aug 1, 2013)

Pretty controversial article in the wake of the 2013 Reebok CrossFit Games. I think he brings up some good points, but I think some of them could be argued....



> The title "Fittest man/woman alive” is bestowed upon the winner of the CrossFit games each year.  This is absurd for many reasons.  Before I go any further, I am not a CrossFit hater.  Quite to the contrary, in fact.  I believe that when programmed correctly CrossFit is an amazing training system that produces incredible results.  When programmed the way that it is in most cases (let's throw shit at a wall and see what sticks) it is a recipe for a one-way trip to snap city.  I digress.  I am a fan of CrossFit and have been an avid supporter for a decade.  I have coached close to 5,000 CrossFit classes and have done several competitions including the South West Regionals as and individual, twice.  I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker either; I refuse to accept that the title of "Fittest Man Alive" can be given after doing a couple of CrossFit workouts.
> 
> I am not saying that Sam Briggs and Rich Froning are not amazing professional athletes, they are hands down the best CrossFitters alive.  However, to give a person the title "Fittest alive” is no less ridiculous than saying that I am the "smartest man alive".  I understand it will piss some people off when I say that CrossFit has no more of a right to crown the fittest man alive than Outside magazine did when they proclaimed Mark Allen was after six Ironman world championship titles.  Before you get your lulu lemon-wearing ass in an uproar, here are my arguments placed in an easy to read bullet point format:
> 
> ...



Read the rest here: https://hitthewoodline.squarespace....fit-games-fittest-alive-or-best-at-exercising


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## CDG (Aug 1, 2013)

I think he's exactly correct.  CF tests who is best at CF.  The title of "Fittest Alive" is a marketing gimmick just like "Sport of Fitness".


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## JBS (Aug 1, 2013)

I'd throw a bit more love at CF when they bring the price down from what it is now- which is the cost of 2 Golds Gym memberships plus a full YMCA family memberships per month.

For what I paid monthly for just me, I can pay for a full family packages and a massage therapist every other week.   Or more protein powder.  

I don't have any hate for it but in the quest to not become specialized,  CF has now become... well... specialized.


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## goon175 (Aug 1, 2013)

I pay 155 a month for a couples rate, and there hasn't been a single month where I didn't get my moneys worth. It also helps that our coach is a PhD Physical Therapist and has saved us tons of money avoid the doctors....


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 2, 2013)

JBS said:


> I'd throw a bit more love at CF when they bring the price down from what it is now- which is the cost of 2 Golds Gym memberships plus a full YMCA family memberships per month.
> 
> For what I paid monthly for just me, I can pay for a full family packages and a massage therapist every other week.   Or more protein powder.
> 
> I don't have any hate for it but in the quest to not become specialized,  CF has now become... well... specialized.


If not for CF, you wouldn't know you had fucked up your _psoas._


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## pardus (Aug 2, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> If not for CF, you wouldn't know you had fucked up your _psoas._



Fanboy post of the day...


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 2, 2013)

pardus said:


> Fanboy post of the day...


Psoas, not mannequin.


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## JBS (Aug 2, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I pay 155 a month for a couples rate, and there hasn't been a single month where I didn't get my moneys worth. It also helps that our coach is a PhD Physical Therapist and has saved us tons of money avoid the doctors....


Out here (Lake Norman area) it's $180 unless I pay 12 months in advance,  then it's like $170.

In this case I am not saying it's pricey by some arbitrary or subjective standard.   I mean it's pricey compared to $38 Golds Gym -which by the way has a movie theater in their spin class and a milkshake bar.  The other major gym I was going to for a while was a powerlifter/bodybuilder gym with dirty floors and all super high end olympic class equipment.   When I walked in, it sounded like a torture chamber with chains on the ends of barbells and people screaming under 700lb deadlifts.  I joined 6 minutes later.

What I think you pay for in CF is the consistent class dynamic that always pushes you.  You never have that in a Golds or other type of gym.  You're paying for an extreme kind of motivation that gets generated by the best kind of peer pressure.   I enjoyed my year there and with a big enough bonus this year I'll probably go back.  But cheap it ain't.

Don't mean to derail the thread,  btw.   I've been thinking whether the claim to fittest on earth is legit or not.  I can't say I've decided. I mean put up a Rich Froning against a pool of other elite athletes from other sports in a 50-event 5 day test.  That's the only way to know.


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## pardus (Aug 2, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Psoas, not mannequin.



lol


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## Poccington (Aug 2, 2013)

I was only discussing this the other night with a few of the lads. All the Games did, was find who was the best at Crossfit. "Fittest Alive" doesn't even come close to it, it's just a marketing gimmick. 

I also have to wonder just how many of the kool aid drinkers who believe the "Fittest Alive" nonsense, are willing to accept that Froning pretty much became the "best" at Crossfit by not doing Crossfit. By turning Crossfit into a sport, they've pretty much ensured that the only way to hit the elite levels of Crossfit is to not do Crossfit. It completely goes against their train of thought that GPP is the way forward.

Crossfit confuses me... It's all just odd.


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## goon175 (Aug 2, 2013)

How did/does Froning not do CrossFit?


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## TLDR20 (Aug 2, 2013)

I think ironman triathletes are the fittest people on the planet. I don't know how you can compare a triathlon to Crossfit.


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## JBS (Aug 2, 2013)

Actually Froning not only does CF, he does three WODs per day; morning noon and evening.   He's a legit product of CF.   That doesn't mean tbe top tier guys weren't already athletic.  Just pointing out that Froning is a true believer.


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## JBS (Aug 2, 2013)

cback0220 said:


> I think ironman triathletes are the fittest people on the planet. I don't know how you can compare a triathlon to Crossfit.


Not as well rounded.  If you are an elite triathlete,  95% of training is focused on cardiovascular fitness,  metabolic conditioning and endurance associated with movement,  i.e. the legs.

This kind of athlete ( and I was one) would perform poorly in powerlifting movements.

I was never elite at the sport,  but some of the reason why not included the fact that I never abandoned lifting and rope climbing and pull ups.    At present I'm thinking of the triathletes that I know with good lifts.   Few and far between.


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## TLDR20 (Aug 2, 2013)

JBS said:


> Not as well rounded.  If you are an elite triathlete,  95% of training is focused on cardiovascular fitness,  metabolic conditioning and endurance associated with movement,  i.e. the legs.
> 
> This kind of athlete ( and I was one) would perform poorly in powerlifting movements.
> 
> I was never elite at the sport,  but some of the reason why not included the fact that I never abandoned lifting and rope climbing and pull ups.    At present I'm thinking of the triathletes that I know with good lifts.   Few and far between.



I understand that, but the people I know who did ironmans could smoke a WOD like it was nothing.


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## JBS (Aug 2, 2013)

cback0220 said:


> I understand that, but the people I know who did ironmans could smoke a WOD like it was nothing.


Yes, definitely a valid point.     Then it would have to come down to more accurately defining what "fittest on earth" means.


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## TLDR20 (Aug 2, 2013)

JBS said:


> Yes, definitely a valid point.     Then it would have to come down to more accurately defining what "fittest on earth" means.



Yeah I think it is absurd to call anyone fittest on earth. I watched the Crossfit games and was very impressed. Those guys are great at monkey bars


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## goon175 (Aug 2, 2013)

Leo, the guy who wrote the article, has been on the podium for over 40 triathlons, and was a coach for the Purdue triathlon team. He also continues to train those athletes. Just a little background on the author as it pertains to triathlons/crossfit


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## ZmanTX (Aug 2, 2013)

"It is a sporting event and in that the winner is the best at that sport, not the best at fitness."

I think his last sentence summed it all up perfectly especially because fitness is such a broad spectrum. Idk maybe I'm a little biased towards the whole CrossFit thing too but I always thought that if you add a HIIT workout to your routine you'd basically be doing a form of CrossFit.

My 0.2
ZM


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## CDG (Aug 2, 2013)

The thing is, CF is not nearly as innovative and special as they think they are.  Google "Sergei Litvinov" or "Litvinov Sprints".  Is that not the EXACT type of workout CF claims to have basically invented? This shit has been around forever.  CF just dressed it up, gift-wrapped it, and started a website. I don't have anything against CF as a program, but I have big issues with a lot of the community, the attitudes carried by a lot of CFers, and the attitudes of the management-level people at HQ.


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## digrar (Aug 2, 2013)

cback0220 said:


> I understand that, but the people I know who did ironmans could smoke a WOD like it was nothing.



I generated most of my non sheep joke related hate and disagree points when making a similar comment about ironmen last year. I gathered from that experience that an element of people commenting at the time didn't agree that moving from point a to point b quickly over a variety of surfaces was the best measurement of fitness.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Aug 2, 2013)

I would have to say that it is all in your definition of a "FIT" person.

I wouldn't call the winner of the CF games the Fittest alive!
I also wouldn't call the winner of the IRON man the Fittest alive either.

I think the best athlete in the world would be a mix of a MMA fighter, CF competitor, IRON man finisher and a PARKOUR bad ass.....
But that's just me.......:-":wall::blkeye:


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## JBS (Aug 2, 2013)

digrar said:


> I generated most of my non sheep joke related hate and disagree points when making a similar comment about ironmen last year. I gathered from that experience that an element of people commenting at the time didn't agree that moving from point a to point b quickly over a variety of surfaces was the best measurement of fitness.



I do not believe in this without qualification.

There are Kenyans who can run 26 miles in 2 hours and 3 minutes.    Yet they probably could not generate enough upper body strength to climb a rope, or bench press more than 50 to 100lbs.   Simply refining one's fitness in one specialized way does not make them the fittest.  I wholeheartedly agree with you it's a great measure of fitness,  just not the only measure.    What is a featherweight world champion marathoner if not the epitome of a specialized athlete?   In his field he has achieved the pinnacle of success- but only in that narrow area of athleticism.   Why should we attach a disproportionate amount of significance to his endeavors in a specialized field while being willing to dismiss other specialized athletes in the same breath?   Take for instance an Olympic powerlifter who can squat 800lbs. (363 kg)...

Is he less fit?  He's every bit as specialized.    Yet he probably could not run a quarter mile.   If your metric is sustained output then the Kenyan is far fitter.   If your metric is the ability to generate maximum power in minimum time, the Kenyan champion is not even in contention, weighing roughly the same as the powerlifter's arm.

Are we talking fitness from a survival standpoint?   From the perspective of combat?  The term "fittest" is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?


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## TLDR20 (Aug 2, 2013)

JBS said:


> I do not believe in this without qualification.
> 
> There are Kenyans who can run 26 miles in 2 hours and 3 minutes.    Yet they probably could not generate enough upper body strength to climb a rope, or bench press more than 50 to 100lbs.   Simply refining one's fitness in one specialized way does not make them the fittest.  I wholeheartedly agree with you it's a great measure of fitness,  just not the only measure.    What is a featherweight world champion marathoner if not the epitome of a specialized athlete?   In his field he has achieved the pinnacle of success- but only in that narrow area of athleticism.   Why should we attach a disproportionate amount of significance to his endeavors in a specialized field while being willing to dismiss other specialized athletes in the same breath?   Take for instance an Olympic powerlifter who can squat 800lbs. (363 kg)...
> 
> ...



I think that is what everyone is saying dude.


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## pardus (Aug 3, 2013)

One thing I have found since moving to the USA is people here (particularly in the Military) put much more emphasis on strength and size over fitness, endurance, speed. 
Ive rarely seen a big muscular strong guy be as fit like "normal" or smaller sized guys. 

I'd challenge any crossfitter to complete an SAS selection course.


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## digrar (Aug 3, 2013)

PTIs regularly fail SASR selection, generally most guys are within 5 or 10% of each other physically going into the course, it's the muscle between the ears that gets bloke through.


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## ZmanTX (Aug 3, 2013)

I would say Special Ops fitness/fitness training is probably the most well rounded type of fitness out there.


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## DAVE101 (Aug 3, 2013)

Fitness =/= athleticism.

Fitness is the ability to survive and reproduce. So to find the fittest alive you should also judge communication skills and physical appearance, kinda like a Ms. Universe pageant (assuming the woman is still fertile). I think "most athletic" would be better fitting and harder to argue for these CrossFit studs.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 3, 2013)

The Olympic's gets broken down by event.

I would say that Olympic events are probably the best measure (by event) of "world title" but doubt anyone winning gold in an event is truly the best in that event in the world. Just the best out of who got to show up and performed well during that individual event.


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## x SF med (Aug 3, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Psoas, not mannequin.


 
You will now point to the psoas on your mannequin, please. :wall::troll:


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 3, 2013)

OK, we obviously need our resident expert to settle this.  
Has anyone seen WillBrink lately??



x SF med said:


> You will now point to the psoas on your mannequin, please. :wall::troll:


Can a mannequin have a psoas?


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## pardus (Aug 3, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Can a mannequin have a psoas?



Only a crossfit fanboy mannequin!


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 3, 2013)

Damn, all my mannequins are PJs.  :wall:


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## pardus (Aug 3, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Damn, all my mannequins are PJs.  :wall:



I hope you got the hair right.


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## JBS (Aug 3, 2013)

DAVE101" said:
			
		

> Fitness =/= athleticism.
> 
> Fitness is the ability to survive and reproduce. So to find the fittest alive you should also judge communication skills and physical appearance, kinda like a Ms. Universe pageant (assuming the woman is still fertile). I think "most athletic" would be better fitting and harder to argue for these CrossFit studs.


In survival and looking at it from that evolutionary standpoint,  I would rate athleticism higher than communication.    There's individual evolution and then evolution within a society.   Communication and other more complex functions would fall more squarely into the evolution of a society than the fitness of an individual.  It's like we're saying this individual is fitter therefore he is more worthy,  or perhaps just more likely to survive.  More precisely,  physical fitness rather than mental acuity.   In the grand scheme of things,  higher intelligence will always trump physical attributes on average.   So we should narrow the scope of discussion to strictly physical fitness.


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## amlove21 (Aug 3, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Damn, all my mannequins are PJs.  :wall:


Well. Played. For those scoring at home, thats a cross thread, necro inside joke triple score.

Rich Froning and Sam Briggs (who I worked out with in England a couple times 3 years ago) are genetically super duper awesome. Fittest on Earth? No. They are the best at xfit. Impressive and all, but niche-impressive.


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## 0699 (Aug 3, 2013)

In my desire to be crowned "fittest person alive", I just did a pushup.


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## x SF med (Aug 3, 2013)

amlove21 said:


> Well. Played. For those scoring at home, thats a cross thread, necro inside joke triple score.
> 
> Rich Froning and Sam Briggs (who I worked out with in England a couple times 3 years ago) are genetically super duper awesome. Fittest on Earth? No. They are the best at xfit. Impressive and all, but niche-impressive.


 

And all your mannequins are GI Joe's with life-like hair and kung-fu grip...  dressed as SEALs and sitting in the space capsule...  so you can pretend to be a space shuttle door gunner, movie star and fanboy....  and you are jealous... 'cuz GI Joe with life-like hair don't need no fiber based hair product.


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## JBS (Aug 3, 2013)

amlove21 said:


> Well. Played. For those scoring at home, thats a cross thread, necro inside joke triple score.
> 
> Rich Froning and Sam Briggs (who I worked out with in England a couple times 3 years ago) are genetically super duper awesome. Fittest on Earth? No. They are the best at xfit. Impressive and all, but niche-impressive.


 
I loved how Froning just fucked up every interviewer in the first year or so when he hit the public scene.

They'd interview a highly placed female about her diet, and she'd be like, "I eat tuna and chicken every day for breakfst lunch and dinner".  And then they'd get someone else, and they'd say, "I only eat organic tilapia and whole grain harvested from a south facing field in France".   Then Froning was posed the same diet question, and he's like _"I eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chocolate milk all day".  _ I laughed my ass off.


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## digrar (Aug 3, 2013)

JAB said:


> The Olympic's gets broken down by event.
> 
> I would say that Olympic events are probably the best measure (by event) of "world title" but doubt anyone winning gold in an event is truly the best in that event in the world. Just the best out of who got to show up and performed well during that individual event.



Decathletes have to be in the mix somewhere, strength throwing, jumping, running, middle distance running, hurdles. Probably light on for endurance activities.


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## pardus (Aug 4, 2013)

Again, show me a harder/greater test of fitness than an SAS selection course and I'll be impressed.


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2013)

Digs...good post.  As far as fittest athletes...I'd like to see Tim Kennedy try XFit games one year...just to see where he'd be?  Because that man is an animal and just trains so crazy.  He's SF, so he made that selection and Q Course and then did it "over there."  Now he fights full time, when he's in fight camp he does three a day workouts, when he's just training he's doing two a days, one of those workouts would crush most of the guys I know that call the gym home.  Prior to his last fight he was training at Trauma Crossfit in Round Rock...which is not a high performance gym at all...but he trains everywhere adding personal knowledge.

And then add that he turned down an appearance on Top Chef and Grillmasters right before UFC 162.

Also...how is a 100 meter overhead lunge walk and 100 meter hand stand walk functional fitness?


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## JBS (Aug 4, 2013)

ThunderHorse said:


> Digs...good post.  As far as fittest athletes...I'd like to see Tim Kennedy try XFit games one year...just to see where he'd be?  Because that man is an animal and just trains so crazy.  He's SF, so he made that selection and Q Course and then did it "over there."  Now he fights full time, when he's in fight camp he does three a day workouts, when he's just training he's doing two a days, one of those workouts would crush most of the guys I know that call the gym home.  Prior to his last fight he was training at Trauma Crossfit in Round Rock...which is not a high performance gym at all...but he trains everywhere adding personal knowledge.
> 
> And then add that he turned down an appearance on Top Chef and Grillmasters right before UFC 162.
> 
> Also...how is a 100 meter overhead lunge walk and 100 meter hand stand walk functional fitness?


It's as opposed to doing curls in the mirror.   Beach buff as opposed to synergistic exercises designed not only to build muscle but also to recruit multiple muscle groups and at a high enough intensity that you get some cardio at the same time- not to mention flexibility and coordination.   Lunges recruit multiple muscle groups, require balance and coordination,  and when done within the context of a wod, will keep the heart rate up pretty high.  There's also stressing of cartlige and ligaments that makes them stronger over time.   Same thing with hand walking, bear crawls, etc.

You'll never use handstands to save your life,  but the balance and strength that comes from using all those muscle groups at the same time could definitely be helpful.

In a way,  CrossFit is kind of a modern backlash against bodybuilding.


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## goon175 (Aug 4, 2013)

Yeah, Tim Kennedy is pretty open about the fact that he uses CrossFit as a mode of training. Don't confuse the programming you see for the everyday person trying to get better and the programming you see for a competitive athlete, they are vastly different.


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## Poccington (Aug 5, 2013)

goon175 said:


> How did/does Froning not do CrossFit?



I probably should have worded that better, he wouldn't be following the Crossfit HQ or programming template that you'd see in a normal box. 

All his programming would be individualised, training multiple times a day, addressing his own specific weaknesses as they come up etc. and given the level that he's at now, his work for improvements would go far beyond the basic Crossfit template. His training is completely sport specific, not the general GPP programming that Crossfit claims to be about.

Froning is a monster, I just wish some people wouldn't act like he's at that stage now by just trucking through a daily WOD up until Games season.


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## Poccington (Aug 5, 2013)

Crossfit has brought things like Oly lifts, kettlebells, gymnast work, even the phrase "Strength and Conditioning" to the mainstream on such a scale, that most people would never have imagined.

They've got to be commended for that.


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## Poccington (Aug 5, 2013)

pardus said:


> One thing I have found since moving to the USA is people here (particularly in the Military) put much more emphasis on strength and size over fitness, endurance, speed.
> Ive rarely seen a big muscular strong guy be as fit like "normal" or smaller sized guys.
> 
> I'd challenge any crossfitter to complete an SAS selection course.



There's actually a post on Hit The Woodline about the concept behind strength taking precedence over endurance etc. in the military environment. It's actually a pretty good post and opened my eyes a bit about the whole training concept. 

http://hitthewoodline.com/athletica/2013/6/9/military-and-special-operations-fitness


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## pardus (Aug 5, 2013)

Poccington said:


> There's actually a post on Hit The Woodline about the concept behind strength taking precedence over endurance etc. in the military environment. It's actually a pretty good post and opened my eyes a bit about the whole training concept.
> 
> http://hitthewoodline.com/athletica/2013/6/9/military-and-special-operations-fitness



I just wrote a long cunt of a post and lost it! 

So I agree with one of his points (strength is important/vital even) and disagree with more. He is limiting his view to Iraq and Afghanistan, his theory wouldn't stand up a Vietnam/Borneo/Malaya/Rhodesia/South Africa/Falklands background.

Strength is good, but size just uses energy that cannot be replaced while truly patrolling, and reduces mobility.


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## reed11b (Aug 5, 2013)

pardus said:


> I just wrote a long cunt of a post and lost it!


KARMA! Muhahahahaha! 
Reed


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## pardus (Aug 5, 2013)

CUNT!


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## goon175 (Aug 6, 2013)

> I probably should have worded that better, he wouldn't be following the Crossfit HQ or programming template that you'd see in a normal box.
> 
> All his programming would be individualised, training multiple times a day, addressing his own specific weaknesses as they come up etc. and given the level that he's at now, his work for improvements would go far beyond the basic Crossfit template. His training is completely sport specific, not the general GPP programming that Crossfit claims to be about.
> 
> Froning is a monster, I just wish some people wouldn't act like he's at that stage now by just trucking through a daily WOD up until Games season.



As I said above, don't mistake the CF mainsite WOD or a local gym's daily WOD for the competitive programming. Two different things. Most well established CF gyms have programming for beginners, for the every day person who works out, and for the competitive athlete. Programming for a competitive athlete is rarely a one-a-day WOD, whether you are Rich Froning or not. They also have programming for football, gymnastics, endurance athletes, etc.


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