# What to look for in an instructor



## macNcheese (Mar 31, 2017)

I am looking for a training class that will teach me how to handle firearms in real world conditions under stress. I have found a lot. I travel a lot for work/school so the location isn't a massive factor. Does anyone have any recommendations on what to look for in the instructors or recommendations? Washington / Utah would be easiest for me to get to. Thank you.


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## Marine0311 (Mar 31, 2017)

Start by looking at their background and reading reviews. 

Look up:

Paul Howe
Jeff Gonzalez 
Pat McNamara

For training in the suck look up:
Don Shipley


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## macNcheese (Mar 31, 2017)

Marine0311 said:


> Start by looking at their background and reading reviews.
> 
> Look up:
> 
> ...


Thank you! Texas seems to be the place to go.


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## Grunt (Mar 31, 2017)

I believe Tim Kennedy is teaching out of Texas as well. He started his own business there.


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## Marine0311 (Mar 31, 2017)

Agoge said:


> I believe Tim Kennedy is teaching out of Texas as well. He started his own business there.



I think he is based out of Austin or Dallas but does travel around.


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## Marine0311 (Mar 31, 2017)

macNcheese said:


> Thank you! Texas seems to be the place to go.



You're welcome.

As you travel look up the backgrounds of those in your A.O


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## macNcheese (Mar 31, 2017)

Marine0311 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> As you travel look up the backgrounds of those in your A.O


Is there anything I should look out for in their Bios or are instructors that claim various SOF backgrounds vetted in some way?


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## AWP (Mar 31, 2017)

Mike Pannone, Jason Falla, Kyle DeFoor....soldiersystems.net also covers a number of instructors.


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## Marine0311 (Mar 31, 2017)

macNcheese said:


> Is there anything I should look out for in their Bios or are instructors that claim various SOF backgrounds vetted in some way?



Look at their career, what they did, what units they were with, how long they have been teaching.

Read what @AWP wrote also.


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## macNcheese (Mar 31, 2017)

Thank you for the help. I will go do some research


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## policemedic (Apr 1, 2017)

All the instructors listed are top notch.  I'd add Larry Vickers and Kyle Lamb to the list as well.

This is is just my opinion, but I think people teaching others to fight with a gun should have certain experience.  For example, they should have been in a gunfight.  That's not to say others who haven't aren't worth training with, but I think having seen the elephant allows the instructor to have insights that others may not have.  YMMV.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 3, 2017)

Anyone that doesn't have more videos of slow motion / rock music than content.

Expectations - Your instructor should have you comfortable performing the following actions:

- Shooting / Reloading on the move (this includes cross directions, forward/rear/and lateral movements)
- Shooting from stressed body positions, exhaustion, and unknown conditions
- Shooting beyond & around structure/materials and reduced visibility (not to be confused with not having target identification)
^ all of which should be performed from the draw, not at the ready (you should know what this means after your instruction)

Kuddos for:
- Being taught how to retain your weapon (AKA me not taking your weapon and shooting you with it)
- Having a plan for follow-on actions after killing a human (speaking to police, phoning 911 - its more complicated than it seems)
- Legitimately understanding proper engagement / shot placement (as well as a basic understanding of ballistics)
- Aide/Trauma Care

Note:
Having any of this training completed or these wickets makes you probably 95% more capable than the rest of the population. Too many people these days carry a gun like its a fucking hall pass - most of them probably wouldn't use it or at the least, know how to if the bell actually tolled one day. Hell, most of them probably wouldn't even be carrying it in the first place; it probably sits in their glove box, at home because its bulky, or in her purse that's where? 

OH YEAH ON THE FUCKING SEAT ACCROSS THE ROOM.....


H/A
(I have always wanted to instruct a course personally)


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## Grunt (Apr 3, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> ...I have always wanted to instruct a course personally...



Not to hijack the thread, but DO IT. No time like the present. There is a lot of talent out there that simply "waits too long" to step out of the boat. Give it a shot. Start out part-time and see how it goes.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 3, 2017)

I'd like to but its a pipe dream - I'm leaving SOF in the Lejeune area and will be off to Drill Instructor school West Coast in July; my skills will evaporate almost as fast as my 5 inches of hair.


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## AWP (Apr 3, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> I'm leaving SOF in the Lejeune area and will be off to Drill Instructor school...



A thousand angels just cried out in anguish.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 3, 2017)

AWP said:


> A thousand angels just cried out in anguish.



...and so did a thousand future recruits.


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## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> I'd like to but its a pipe dream - I'm leaving SOF in the Lejeune area and will be off to Drill Instructor school West Coast in July; my skills will evaporate almost as fast as my 5 inches of hair.



That, I'd like to see.

An old friend was a DI at San Diego, and he could turn it on and scare the shit out of me.....


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 3, 2017)

The only thing scary about a Drill Instructor is requiring him to think logically after staring at a what-to-do-next card for three years while screaming at bald headed teenagers. Obviously I'm exaggerating but some are all about that life.

Then there's people like me who will likely do just fine but eagerly await going back to a deployable unit. It was not my choice to do this.


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## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> The only thing scary about a Drill Instructor is requiring him to think logically after staring at a what-to-do-next card for three years while screaming at bald headed teenagers. Obviously I'm exaggerating but some are all about that life.
> 
> Then there's people like me who will likely do just fine but eagerly await going back to a deployable unit.* It was not my choice to do this*.



My father was a Marine, retired at 21 years.  He was given a choice of two options, and I understand it is part of a Marine's career "growth":  recruiting, or the drill field.  He recruited.  He hated it, but he did meet my mother through it.

My friend, the former DI, was about as chill as one could be...the consummate surfer dude.  He could turn 'it' on like a flip of a switch, which I always thought was fascinating.  And scary.


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## Muppet (Apr 3, 2017)

To add, we have a member here, or had, Garry Melton that runs a course in West V.A. Former S.F. guy, a few of us are friends on facebook. Thinks it's called Paramount Tactical Solutions. I would like to take the pistol/carbine course.

M.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 3, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> The only thing scary about a Drill Instructor is requiring him to think logically after staring at a what-to-do-next card for three years while screaming at bald headed teenagers.



Your comment reminded me of this video I saw some time ago...






Just watched it again and had to pause at the 50 second mark, that Sergeant has an insane amount of ribbons ....


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## macNcheese (Apr 3, 2017)

I've been doing a lot of research. I think I'm going to try out Courses of Action. A lot of the dates and locations work with my schedule. The instructor is former S.F. as well. 
Courses Of Action


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 4, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Your comment reminded me of this video I saw some time ago...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A lot of people see it like a taboo in the Marine Corps to think poorly of being a Drill Instructor, but to put things into perspective I just sat for two hours in a lecture from Felix Rodriguez - a former CIA Officer and Paramilitary Advisor from the Bay of Pigs era, to Vietnam - he was even the last person to speak with Che in Bolivia before his execution. I would pay money to stay here at this unit.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 4, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> It was not my choice to do this.



So was this a "needs of the Corps" bit, or someone above deciding it is good for the career?  

A very good friend, (female) recently retired as an E-8 and went her whole tour without having to hit the drill-field or recruiter duty.  She that said that she did not necessarily try to avoid it, she was never asked ordered.


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 4, 2017)

I?


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 4, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> The question I have is how long does it take for a new DI to really become the straight-backed, in your face, effective DI?



Speaking as a Marine, but not a Drill Instructor, I too am interested to know.  I will say I would not be at all surprised if the answer is "not very long at all".  Most Marines get a perverse form by pleasure of imitating their former Drill Instructors.

One recruit during bootcamp was shockingly good at imitating our "heavy".  He got caught by the heavy, while we were in the field.    He gathered the other Drill Instructors and those of us in the area and had the recruit put on a 'show' .  Of course we knew what was coming after, but the dude was fucking amazing at the body language and imitating the voice of this particular DI....in fact the DI's were laughing almost harder that we were.

Then we paid...and paid...and paid.

Those are the stories I like to think were told over and over after the DI's got out of the field and had a chance to grab a beer together and recap.


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## Grunt (Apr 4, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Speaking as a Marine, but not a Drill Instructor, I too am interested to know.  I will say I would not be at all surprised if the answer is "not very long at all".  Most Marines get a perverse form of pleasure of imitating their former Drill Instructors.



Yep...because good, bad, or indifferently -- they make lasting impressions with you. I vividly remember all of them -- and their individual quirks -- to this very day. I don't suspect I will forget them anytime soon.


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## 256 (Mar 29, 2018)

macNcheese said:


> I am looking for a training class that will teach me how to handle firearms in real world conditions under stress. I have found a lot. I travel a lot for work/school so the location isn't a massive factor. Does anyone have any recommendations on what to look for in the instructors or recommendations? Washington / Utah would be easiest for me to get to. Thank you.



I posted about my experience with William Petty a little bit ago, highly recommend.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 30, 2018)

Check out Suarez International at Warriortalk.com. I’ve taken classes with several of their instructors and they are all have BTDT.  I will be taking their Force on Force class again this fall, it’s a real eye opener.


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## Salt USMC (Mar 30, 2018)

AWP said:


> A thousand angels  recruits just cried out in anguish.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 2, 2018)

Guess this is still a thread -

Update to status:

My Drill Instructor Duty orders were changed and I have since been moved from MARSOC East to one of the Reconnaissance Battalions AWA shifted/aligned into a deploying company. I am in my happy place.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2018)

The Hate Ape said:


> I am in my happy place.



Congrats!!!  Nothing pleases me more than seeing happy satisfied Marines.  It's usually a rare site.


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## Marine0311 (Apr 2, 2018)

The Hate Ape said:


> A lot of people see it like a taboo in the Marine Corps to think poorly of being a Drill Instructor, but to put things into perspective I just sat for two hours in a lecture from Felix Rodriguez - a former CIA Officer and Paramilitary Advisor from the Bay of Pigs era, to Vietnam - he was even the last person to speak with Che in Bolivia before his execution. I would pay money to stay here at this unit.



fuking wow!


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