# Special Forces Assessment Question



## Marauder06 (Apr 10, 2016)

A friend of mine is an Army 1LT pilot who is interested in SFAS.  Based on my limited experience as an enabler in an SF unit, combined with his rather unique skill set, I feel like he would be an excellent candidate for your Regiment.  

Concurrent with the research he's doing on his own, I've suggested that he join ShadowSpear to better address some of his questions.  He is currently in a forward location so face-to-face or phone calls with an SF recruiter is problematic.  I thought he might get good advice here.

The major complicating factor that I see is that he is a pilot.  I vaguely remember there being issues with pilots trying to attend SFAS, something to do with year groups and a specific period of time where they are limited to flying.  Yes he has considered the 160th and that is a viable option, however he feels drawn to SF.

At any rate, I started this thread for him to gain some insight and get some advice for the path he seeks to follow.  I'll leave it to him and those who can better advise him.

@Jack London


----------



## Jack London (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for the introduction and recommendation @Marauder06.

Briefly, I'm approaching the window for an application to SFAS, and I want to ensure I'm well informed to make a smart decision about the possibility of realigning my career with SF.

For now, I'm specifically looking for:
1. Mentorship and information on the role that an officer plays initially on an ODA and in subsequent leadership positions in the branch. Beyond the descriptions and career outline in 600_3, I'm interested to discuss how officers fit into the SF picture at each echelon.
2. Perspective on the technical challenges & setbacks one would face as an aviator transitioning to the Q course & SF lifestyle. For example, how far would my skills be behind those of my Infantry peers assessing for SF?
3. Guidance from or references to those experienced with the transition from AV to SF.  Beyond that, I seek information on the practicality of changing branches.  Note: I'll soon have a conversation with the SF officer assessment PoC per HRC - any other recommendations here would be welcome.
4. Recommendations beyond a Google search for readings, events, or the like to gain historical and modern perspective on SF culture, how it works, what it does, who it needs, etc.

I appreciate your help in advance.

Cheers,

J.L.


----------



## AWP (Apr 10, 2016)

Out of curiosity, and because someone will ask, why SF and not the 160th?


----------



## Il Duce (Apr 10, 2016)

@Jack London - your first step should be firing off an email to your branch manager.  I've got it, you're just a number to them but they'll at least give you the stock answer on what you have to do to get released by Aviation branch if you get selected at SFAS.  Just remember, those guys are going to give you the stock answer.  Everything is waiverable if you get the right signatures.


----------



## Jack London (Apr 10, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Out of curiosity, and because someone will ask, why SF and not the 160th?



I've witnessed members of each at work in training environments.  Both organizations are attractive, frankly. 

My questions in this thread are directed specifically toward SF since my window for an application there will close before the optimal time for an officer to assess with SOAR.

Il Duce, your point is duly noted.


----------



## AWP (Apr 10, 2016)

Jack London said:


> I've witnessed members of each at work in training environments.  Both organizations are attractive, frankly.
> 
> My questions in this thread are directed specifically toward SF since my window for an application there will close before the optimal time for an officer to assess with SOAR.



Honestly, of all the "I want to do 2 or 3 really competitive, high speed things in the military" explanations we've seen, this makes the most sense...perhaps ever. 

Whatever path you go, good luck.


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 10, 2016)

Il Duce said:


> @Jack London - your first step should be firing off an email to your branch manager.  I've got it, you're just a number to them but they'll at least give you the stock answer on what you have to do to get released by Aviation branch if you get selected at SFAS.  Just remember, those guys are going to give you the stock answer.  Everything is waiverable if you get the right signatures.



Does AV have a say in releasing him?  After the ARSOF board selected me for CA, EN branch had absolutely zero say in, well, anything pertaining to Totentanz.

The SF assessments officer is where I'd start (at least the CA assessments officer was the one in complete control of my class dates/ATRRS reservations and associated PCS orders).


----------



## AWP (Apr 10, 2016)

Totentanz said:


> Does AV have a say in releasing him?  After the ARSOF board selected me for CA, EN branch had absolutely zero say in, well, anything pertaining to Totentanz.
> 
> The SF assessments officer is where I'd start (at least the CA assessments officer was the one in complete control of my class dates/ATRRS reservations and associated PCS orders).



Does SORB have anything to do with O's or is that just the enlisted side?


----------



## Il Duce (Apr 10, 2016)

In my dealings with AV branch they have complete say in what their officers do.  Very difficult to get a qualified aviator released from the branch but I'm sure it happens.  My experience comes primarily from having subordinate BNs of fixed wing aviation - now all consolidated in the 116th MI BDE but that's just happened in the last year.  I will say, fixed wing aviators may be different from rotary wing but I imagine the base logic is the same - the significant expense involved in training.


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 10, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Does SORB have anything to do with O's or is that just the enlisted side?



Yes - all of my ARSOF board documents were submitted through them.  I'm not sure what the separation is between the branches and if that's true across the board.  I will say that back when I started the process, one of my conversations was with an SF recruiter and he was very familiar with the officer accessions process.

@Il Duce, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 10, 2016)

Paging @Viper1


----------



## Il Duce (Apr 11, 2016)

Ok, so mea culpa on my part.  Did some research and the fixed-wing guys I'm familiar with all start out as rotary wing and select for fixed-wing and the 15C identifier as senior 1LTs/CPTs - so about when their SF eligibility would close.  So of course AV branch doesn't release them for anything - they already chose fixed wing over all the other opportunities.

Bottom line, I don't think it hurts you to talk to AV branch @Jack London but @Totentanz has more current experience in this area and is likely correct on the weight of SF vs AV branch in the matter.


----------



## Jack London (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks all for the well-wishes and support so far. 

I found the information that I needed for the accessions process. 

Any other guidance and mentorship on the topics in my original post are certainly welcome.

Cheers,

J.L.


----------



## Etype (Apr 12, 2016)

As far as SFAS and the Q-Course, it's very competitive for officers. With OIF done and OEF winding down, their resumes may not be as strong as in years past, but they will still be ahead of you as far as tactical knowledge and experience. This won't be demonstrated in SFAS, but the cadre will be aware of this fact. Have you been to Ranger School? If not, you'll have the opportunity to learn it in SUT, it's not hard but it's a lot of new information to deal with while, cold, wet, hungry, and tired. There's an art to controlling soldiers when all they really want to do is drop their rucks, pull out their woobie, and sleep.

You'll need to be in great shape. I'd say the average officer who is selected is-
- easily scoring a 300 on his APFT.
- finishing 5 milers in 37ish minutes.
- rucking 12 miles in 2.5 or less hours.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two enlisted SF guys who have pilot licenses, and two pilots who were enlisted SF (both through the WO flight program). But I've never encountered an aviator turned 18A. You nwould definitely bring a unique/fresh perspective.

As for your daily duties- unfortunately, it's probably nowhere near as fun as flying. The As are usually pretty busy doing administrative tasks like storyboards, and training concepts  and dealing with the company and batallion leadership. Most of the actually tactical planning is left to a few of the senior enlisted team members. On the ground, the Officer spends ablot of his time talking to higher and wrangling the CCT- the real time decision making usually falls on the Z, B, or F.


----------



## WardenAFG (Apr 15, 2016)

I went through the course with a former UH-60 pilot. As can be expected he was a little behind some of the other 11A/Ranger tab captains during SUT. Nonetheless he ended up doing very well at group.

Being an expert at the tactical level isn't necessarily a hallmark of an SF officer. Being a good ambassador for the detachment, trust in your enlisted personnel and knowing inside and out how to get the detachment what it needs in order to be more effective and lethal is. I know a former JTAC that became an 18A, and the perspective he brings has allowed his detachment to get guaranteed fires whenever they are warranted just for knowing the language. Things being as they are now with rotary wing assets being heavily involved in both training and combat operations your experience could be quite valuable.

My personal belief is that if I can make it, anyone can.


----------



## Etype (Apr 16, 2016)

WardenAFG said:


> Being a good ambassador for the detachment, trust in your enlisted personnel and knowing inside and out how to get the detachment what it needs in order to be more effective and lethal is.


Incredibly well said.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'd go be a 160th pilot before 18A...but your call!!!

Good Luck!!!


----------



## Viper1 (Apr 17, 2016)

Jack London said:


> Thanks for the introduction and recommendation @Marauder06.
> 
> Briefly, I'm approaching the window for an application to SFAS, and I want to ensure I'm well informed to make a smart decision about the possibility of realigning my career with SF.
> 
> ...



Question #1 is not needed at this point.  25m and 50m targets. SFAS acceptance, SFAS getting selected, MCCC, and Q course are your focus.

#2 Your skills are leadership.  If an E-4 with no prior experience can learn the fundamentals of recon and ambush, so can you.  Don't get down on yourself or your skills.  You're a pilot.  Be proud of it, and be proud of the transition you're about to make. Be coachable, trainable, and learn.  Make friends with your Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, Engineer, combat experienced, Sapper and Ranger-tabbed brethren. Read the Ranger Creed.  If you give 100% and then some, they'll ensure they teach you what you need to know. Just listen, learn, and do it.  You'll make mistakes.  Just get better each time.

#3.  I have no personal experience with aviators transitioning to SF.  If you want to go SF, do it.

#4. Read "Get Selected," "Chosen Soldier," and the "Masters of Chaos."  Those should get you on the right path.

Keep in touch with your progress.  The Regiment needs good people.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Apr 17, 2016)

I like how the USMC trains their pilots, and other services might benefit from similar training. My son was selected for a Marine Aviator slot. Before putting on a flight suit, he went therough the same training  every other officer went through. While @ VMI  did USMC Basic at PI. After undergrad he went through Marine OCS, and the TBS. It wasn't until that was over before he went to Pensacola for Aviator training.  I know the USAF has some SERE training, but nothing close to what the USMC  does.

My $.02.


----------



## Jack London (Jan 14, 2017)

Gents,

After a lot of reflection and research, I've decided to pursue SOF opportunities through AV.   Many thanks to all for the time, advice, and mentorship.

Cheers,

J.L.


----------

