# Big decisions, looking for advice



## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Hello everyone, I wasn't entirely sure where this thread should go so I put it under general discussion. I'm 21 years old and commute to a university full time, I'm working part time, and volunteer with the fire department. Since freshman year of high school I've been thinking of enlisting. I didn't enlist after high school because I wanted to atleast get some college under my belt as I know how important higher education is. I've been indecisive ever since. It's mostly a liberal arts school with a few sciences and allied health, no engineering or the like.

I've finished my general education and really need to crack down on a major, or not go back to school and quit wasting this loan money. Im not happy in school, and the options at this school to me doesn't satisfy my desire for being of service and aid others. I'm 110% sure I want to pursue medicine in some form or fashion and am in love with 68wopt40/4  or corpsman, I can't think of anything else.

My issue right now is I have convinced myself that if I don't enlist now I never will as there is such a short window to enlist and it's a young mans game, plus enlisting with a bachelors seems like taking 2 steps back. At the same time I feel if I don't finish my 4 year degree now, whatever it'll be, then I won't finish. Ive talked with dad and his friends who were in the military, my dad was 160th. My parents are supportive of what ever I do as long as I'm not a stripper or deal drugs or crap like that but they want me to finish school. I've talked with all the recruiters, except the marine corps, as they don't have a medical corps, and I know what my options are. I took the asvab my AFQT was 90 and my line scores were 126 across. The navy recruiter said that HM would be really silly considering I qualify for nuclear tech and more technical jobs than HM but it's not what I want, same for the army recruiter.

I'd just really like some advice for people who may have been in my situation, I feel like a rock in a hard place and that I'm going no where fast, any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys for reading and have an awesome day.


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## BloodStripe (Jul 19, 2017)

It's your life. Don't live it by how others tell you to, and while you are at it, don't live a life of regrets. If you want to be a Corpsmen, go enlist as an HM and pursue your dream. A lot of recruiters will try and get you to enlist under what jobs they have difficulty filling, for one reason or another. If you have your heart set on something, and you qualify to do it, than go do it. I scored about the same thing on my ASVAB and wanted to be a grunt and was willing to wait six months from my high school graduation date to become one because no SOI slots were open until then, regardless of what the Army recruiter tried to sell me on. In fact, I need to find him and thank him for that, because if it weren't for him, I would have been a soldier. :-"

To your thought about taking two steps back, there are lots of great military members who enlist with more than just a four year baccalaureate degree.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 19, 2017)

These two things do not go together. 


Drew_boy said:


> I'm 110% sure I want to pursue medicine in some form or fashion and am in love with 68wopt40/4 or corpsman, I can't think of anything else.





Drew_boy said:


> The navy recruiter said that HM would be really silly



Recruiters will lie to you. 

Ball is in your park, now.


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## Devildoc (Jul 19, 2017)

I was an enlisted guy with a BA in poli sci and spoke another language (not well, but passable).  I wanted one thing:  HM with a guaranteed slot at FMSS (now FMTB).  I was a unicorn, that recruited tried so hard to get me into about a dozen other fields.  Of course with those scores the recruiter wants you to do nuke, they are always and forever undermanned because you have to be a damned physicist to get into the program.

It's your life and you need to live it.  Ordinarily I would suggest sticking out college but I am also not a fan of using loans to getting a degree in something for the sake of having a sheepskin on the wall.  The military would at least get you the money to finish a degree on the back end, and by then if you decide the military isn't for you, you'll have learned some life lessons and made some scratch.

If you have questions about being a HM, ask away.  68 opt 40, not so much.  Good luck.


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> HM with a guaranteed slot at FMSS (now FMTB).



I know your rate can be guaranteed, but I didn't think that slots at FMTB could. I was told that you can essentially ask at the end of A school but it's a shot in the dark for FMTB because dental technicians and being in a hospital is in much more demand. And at this point in school I would be finishing just to finish not because it's something I want to pursue, like you said sheepskin. I've managed to save money with scholarships and commuting but I'm about 15,000 in right now, which really is nothing in the grand scheme of things but it seems like a lot of money wince I'm only making 11.20$ an hour haha. My schooling has gotten to where I either go to a different school or join the military, and I really don't have the money to go anywhere else right now unless I'm taking out big money in loans. What benefits would I see enlisting with a 4yr degree besides starting off at e4 and having promotion points?


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## DocIllinois (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> My issue right now is I have convinced myself that if I don't enlist now I never will as there is such a short window to enlist and it's a young mans game, plus enlisting with a bachelors seems like taking 2 steps back.
> 
> The navy recruiter said that HM would be really silly considering I qualify for nuclear tech and more technical jobs than HM but it's not what I want, same for the army recruiter.


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## Topkick (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> enlisting with a bachelors seems like taking 2 steps back



There is nothing wrong with enlisting after completing your degree. There are many college educated enlisted soldiers and it puts you on the fast track for promotion. I would finish the degree. That being said, I wouldn't worry too much about never completing your degree if you do choose to enlist prior to finishing. Chances are, you will be more driven after your service and you may even have a chance to finish the degree while in service.


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## Devildoc (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> I know your rate can be guaranteed, but I didn't think that slots at FMTB could. I was told that you can essentially ask at the end of A school but it's a shot in the dark for FMTB because dental technicians and being in a hospital is in much more demand. And at this point in school I would be finishing just to finish not because it's something I want to pursue, like you said sheepskin. I've managed to save money with scholarships and commuting but I'm about 15,000 in right now, which really is nothing in the grand scheme of things but it seems like a lot of money wince I'm only making 11.20$ an hour haha. My schooling has gotten to where I either go to a different school or join the military, and I really don't have the money to go anywhere else right now unless I'm taking out big money in loans. What benefits would I see enlisting with a 4yr degree besides starting off at e4 and having promotion points?



I went in in the mid-90s, a slot wasn't impossible.

The bennies are E4 and promo points and the satisfaction you have a degree.  You WILL have a leg-up on non-degreed peers with promo and some schools.  You will be treated with a little deference by NCOs, and some officers particularly nurse & med corps.  Aside from that, no benefit to joining with a degree.


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## Gunz (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> ...wasting this loan money...not happy in school..options at this school to me doesn't satisfy my desire for being of service and aid others....
> 
> ...My parents are supportive of what ever I do *but* they want me to finish school...
> 
> ...



Pretty goddamn obvious from your statements you want _us _to tell you to drop out of college. You'll never get that advice from me. It's also pretty goddam obvious your parents are smart and want you to finish school. Ultimately, you're going do what you want to do...then you live with whatever choice you make.

Also, put an uppercase "M" and and uppercase "C" on Marine Corps. It's a thing with us. Respect for our Fallen.


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Pretty goddamn obvious from your statements you want _us _to tell you to drop out of college. You'll never get that advice from me. It's also pretty goddam obvious your parents are smart and want you to finish school. Ultimately, you're going do what you want to do...then you live with whatever choice you make.



I'll make sure I capitalize "M" and "C" I didn't realize. I'm not looking for an excuse or someone to confirm a bias, my feelings about school are more of a financial reality. I love college and it's not the learning that's making me unhappy, it's that I don't have a plan for school. I've been in college for 2 years I should have game plan on what degree I want to earn and I don't have it. By enlisting I can at least earn money to put towards that degree instead of footing the bill in loans straight up. From where I'm at that makes the most sense, or maybe I'm just being nearsighted.


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## Topkick (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> By enlisting I can at least earn money to put towards that degree instead of footing the bill in loans straight up



I know the feeling. This is not necessarily a bad plan. It worked for me and many other vets. Ultimately, you have to make the decision and then own it.


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I know the feeling. This is not necessarily a bad plan. It worked for me and many other vets. Ultimately, you have to make the decision and then own it.


when you left the military what kind of obstacles did you face finishing your degree? or what may you have done differently? I appreciate you replying


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## Docboats (Jul 19, 2017)

> ...My issue right now is I have convinced myself that if I don't enlist now I never will as there is such a short window to enlist and it's a young mans game...



I feel like college is a young man's game. 
I quit college to join the military. After being in for awhile, I realized that I gave up on something super important to me for something else that was super important to me. I am now scrambling to take 6 courses per semester to maximize my GI bill and finish my bachelors. I also work 40+ hours a week at a job I hate so I can support my family. 

Stay in school. Join a frat. Bang hot girls. Drink a lot of beer.
You'll have plenty of time to wear cammies and walk really far with a heavy ruck after you graduate.

PS: if you want to be FMF HM, and "love medicine"... declare Biology.


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## Topkick (Jul 19, 2017)

I didn't leave the military. I found a home in the Army and did nearly 23 years on active duty. I did finish my degree and it helped me then and now. If you leave the military after your first hitch, the GI bill is great. You get the college money and E-5 pay while going to school, which eliminates any major obstacles. I caution you not to join the military just for the college money though, its not an easy gig. You should want to serve as much as you want the GI Bill.


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## Teufel (Jul 19, 2017)

Many people see a college degree as a major life changing goal. I put military service on equal or better footing with that life event. I've known men who have led highly successful lives in the civilian sector but identified most strongly with the formative years they spend in military service to our nation. You may not enjoy every moment you spend in uniform but you will never regret it. 

Your recruiter cares about you, his quotas, his boss, and his career...in reverse order. Keep that in mind when you talk to him. 

I would apply to the SARC program if I were you. It offers you incredible opportunities if you can pass the challenging entry criteria.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 19, 2017)

Docboats said:


> Bang hot girls.



We see this advice to the youngsters often. Be not with the caveat that they be "hot girls".  Well played and way to up the game!


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## Docboats (Jul 19, 2017)

> We see this advice to the youngsters often. Be not with the caveat that they be "hot girls". Well played and way to up the game!



I'm just saying... if you were into that kind of thing (as I assume most 20 something A-type military wannabes are) college is the ideal place to be.


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Docboats said:


> I feel like college is a young man's game.
> I quit college to join the military. After being in for awhile, I realized that I gave up on something super important to me for something else that was super important to me. I am now scrambling to take 6 courses per semester to maximize my GI bill and finish my bachelors. I also work 40+ hours a week at a job I hate so I can support my family.
> 
> Stay in school. Join a frat. Bang hot girls. Drink a lot of beer.
> ...


I don't know about the frat part, but I'm a biology major right now. I've done human anatomy & physiology, calc, all that fun stuff and I like it. I took human anatomy too because I figured it would also help towards corpsman or medic. The bad thing is biology unlike nursing or engineering or what have you is it just doesn't correlate to a specific job. I've seen other Bio majors and still working their minimum wage job they had while going to school and that terrifies me.  But I absolutely get what you're saying, school is easier now since I only have to support myself.


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I didn't leave the military. I found a home in the Army and did nearly 23 years on active duty. I did finish my degree and it helped me then and now. If you leave the military after your first hitch, the GI bill is great. You get the college money and E-5 pay while going to school, which eliminates any major obstacles. I caution you not to join the military just for the college money though, its not an easy gig. You should want to serve as much as you want the GI Bill.


Absolutely, I've been thinking of joining before I was worried whether or not I could pay for my next semester, it's just a big lunge to make I've never been anywhere else besides ft Campbell. I appreciate everyone's points of view it is helpful.


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## Topkick (Jul 19, 2017)

Docboats said:


> Bang hot girls. Drink a lot of beer



You can do this while your in the military, and then wear cammies and carry ruck while your at work


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## Docboats (Jul 19, 2017)

> You can do this while your in the military, and then wear cammies and carry ruck while your at work



True, but its harder when all your boys try and bang the 1 hot girl...


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## Topkick (Jul 19, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> Absolutely, I've been thinking of joining before I was worried whether or not I could pay for my next semester, it's just a big lunge to make I've never been anywhere else besides ft Campbell. I appreciate everyone's points of view it is helpful.



Yep, its a big lunge. We all took it and I'd go out on a limb and say that not many of us here regret it. But, it's your decision, because its your life and the willingness to give your life in the service of your nation is a personal choice.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 19, 2017)

Enlisting in the Guard while you finish college isn't an option?


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## Drew_boy (Jul 19, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Enlisting in the Guard while you finish college isn't an option?


I thought about this and a recruiter recommended it (mostly to get me in right then and there), but isn't transferring from guard/reserves  to active pretty difficult? I'm not sure how education benefits work in the National Guard. For the GI bill and other benefits you have to be active for 3 years. I'm not looking at service as just a way to get benefits, I'd like to do the whole nine yards of basic, AIT, get stationed somewhere active.


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## AWP (Jul 19, 2017)

Smokin' Jesus titty cinnamon....

- Both college and the military will still be there in 4, 6, 100 years.
- Don't get a degree just to have a degree. That's dumb, a waste of time and money. Earn a degree you can use.
- Your recruiter is a POS like many recruiters. Ignore that nuke crap.
- Think about your life if/ when (statistics are never on anyone's side) you become injured or don't finish a SOF pipeline. You want to be a soldier or sailor? Haze gray and underway or stuck in some fobbitt role?
- Either service path can set you up for nursing school or PA school after you're out of uniform. People would be surprised at the number of SOF guys who become MDs.
- You're suffering from "paralysis by analysis." At some point you have to pay your money and take your chances. Not one single person here, including you, can say what you'll regret in 10, 20, 30 years. Make your decision and live with your decision.


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## Muppet (Jul 19, 2017)

AWP said:


> Smokin' Jesus titty cinnamon....
> 
> - Both college and the military will still be there in 4, 6, 100 years.
> - Don't get a degree just to have a degree. That's dumb, a waste of time and money. Earn a degree you can use.
> ...



You should pin that post boss....

M.


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## Muppet (Jul 20, 2017)

In regards to medicine. I was a medic at Bragg, a long time ago. Became a paramedic there also. Been a paramedic in the outside world for near 18 years. If medicine is what you want, take it, don't look back. I can't speak on college, I have none. Either way, Army medic or Navy corpsman, you will be needed and learn alot. Lots of room to advance in medicine also. Hell, if I still really cared for medicine, I would go nursing or P.A. route but I am not at that point anymore. My point being, fuck what the recruiters say, they lie, as others have told you. Do what YOU want...

M.


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## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2017)

AWP said:


> Smokin' Jesus titty cinnamon....
> 
> - Both college and the military will still be there in 4, 6, 100 years.
> *- Don't get a degree just to have a degree. That's dumb, a waste of time and money. Earn a degree you can use.*
> ...



This whole post is golden, should be embroidered on a throw pillow, and required reading for new members.

I highlighted the point re: degree because it's true.  College for college sake and without a plan is a waste of someone's money: yours, the lender, the holder of the scholarship, whatever.  It shouldn't be a place to "find yourself" and waste 4-5 years till you get on the other side.

If you want to pursue HM, I (or others here) can be a great resource.  If you want to be a SARC re: @Teufel's advice, there are fewer here but enough to get you pointed in the right direction.  If you want the Army, likewise there are folks here who can be of real benefit.  You do indeed suffer paralysis by analysis; shit or get off the pot.


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## Gunz (Jul 20, 2017)

Drew_boy said:


> I'll make sure I capitalize "M" and "C" I didn't realize. I'm not looking for an excuse or someone to confirm a bias, my feelings about school are more of a financial reality. I love college and it's not the learning that's making me unhappy, it's that I don't have a plan for school. I've been in college for 2 years I should have game plan on what degree I want to earn and I don't have it. *By enlisting I can at least earn money to put towards that degree instead of footing the bill in loans straight up.* From where I'm at that makes the most sense, or maybe I'm just being nearsighted.




Sounds like you've already made your decision...so do it.

I went to college on the GI Bill. The only obstacles I faced were working, going to school and serving in the Air National Guard at the same time. But I pulled it off and so can you. The GI Bill is a great thing and not to be wasted. Good luck.


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## Topkick (Jul 20, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> I highlighted the point re: degree because it's true.  College for college sake and without a plan is a waste of someone's money: yours, the lender, the holder of the scholarship, whatever.



A degree is always a good thing to have. 
I majored in Phys Ed but I don't teach. 
I have had damn good jobs that simply required having a degree. I agree that it's best to major in a relative subject but having any degree is better than none.


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## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2017)

Topkick said:


> A degree is always a good thing to have.
> I majored in Phys Ed but I don't teach.
> I have had damn good jobs that simply required having a degree. I agree that it's best to major in a relative subject but having any degree is better than none.



I tell that to all of those baristas, waiters, and second-degree nurses with womens' studies and sociology degrees. 

Not every job needs a degree, and many fields make much more than a degreed person (i.e., HVAC, plumbing, etc).  I do not think incurring debt getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is a good idea; I respectfully disagree.


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## AWP (Jul 20, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> I tell that to all of those baristas, waiters, and second-degree nurses with womens' studies and sociology degrees.
> 
> Not every job needs a degree, and many fields make much more than a degreed person (i.e., HVAC, plumbing, etc).  I do not think incurring debt getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is a good idea; I respectfully disagree.



If you have experience in a field the degree can check the block. I wouldn't recommend it, but it if you are in you 30's with some experience in your field it isn't bad. As a 20-something just graduating? Oh, hell no....


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## RustyShackleford (Jul 20, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> I tell that to all of those baristas, waiters, and second-degree nurses with womens' studies and sociology degrees.
> 
> Not every job needs a degree, and many fields make much more than a degreed person (i.e., HVAC, plumbing, etc).  I do not think incurring debt getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is a good idea; I respectfully disagree.



In the same turn, good luck walking right into a skilled labor position such as plumbing, HVAC, etc.  One of the biggest hurdles I see young guys facing upon leaving the Army is that they want to work in a certain field upon ETS but don't have the degree that is all but required for the job, but that is a topic for a different thread.

If you want to be a medic, go be a fucking medic, but look at what AWP said, the mil and college will always be there.  I went through RIP (now RASP) as a 23 y/o with a few years in the Army under my belt.  Age will not hinder you as much as you think.


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## Topkick (Jul 20, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> I tell that to all of those baristas, waiters, and second-degree nurses with womens' studies and sociology degrees.
> 
> Not every job needs a degree, and many fields make much more than a degreed person (i.e., HVAC, plumbing, etc).  I do not think incurring debt getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is a good idea; I respectfully disagree.



Maybe my post reads this way but I didn't recommend getting a degree for the sake of having a degree. Most choose a degree with a job in mind and often end up working in another profession in which they could not without a degree.


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## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Maybe my post reads this way but I didn't recommend getting a degree for the sake of having a degree. Most choose a degree with a job in mind and often end up working in another profession in which they could not without a degree.



I did misread it, my bad.  This makes sense.  I'm not anti-college; but I am anti-college-when-it-doesn't-make-sense. 

My first degree was poli sci, my first job was a newspaper reporter, not political scientist, so I get and agree with your point.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 20, 2017)

There is never damage done by being able to critically think and analyze information effectively. A college degree surely isn't the only way to get there, but it only hurts if you don't take the education seriously. 

I am of the mindset that if you have the drive and discipline to make it through college, as a young man, SOF/the military will be there. Others like me and others here needed the extra years to mature enough to get what college offers. 

I went through SFAS as an 18year old and was on an ODA at 21. I wasn't the best team guy I could be because I didn't have the maturity necessary outside of the structured environment the Q course provided. With the benefit of retrospection I would have garnered more life experiences through either another part of the military(Ranger Regiment) or through school. Just my .0002 cents.


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## Docboats (Jul 20, 2017)

This is a super awesome thread. Much better than analyzing my TPS reports...

Everyone here has valid points. Degree v military v skilled trade. It does not matter. A few points for me, just because its fun!

1.* Every degree is useful*. Having a degree shows employers you can think critically and have the commitment enough to follow through with a decision. While I agree, that there are degree programs out there which will not optimally prepare you for the job market you may find yourself in, having the piece of paper in ANYTHING will benefit you.
-As an example: Target will not hire anyone for a management role without a degree. Any degree. I have nothing against Target or people who work there, but it does not take a rocket surgeon to manage a small department of people who stock shelves or run cash registers. Anyone with 4 years in the military should be qualified for that job, but they aren't because that company wants a degree holder. This is one example from 1000's.​
2. *Military experience is invaluable*. I will influence my boys to join the military if I can. Hell, I think it should be a mandatory requirement for all US citizens, but I digress....
-My original point was that the military is *NOT a young man's game*. Last time I checked, there are no 18-21 year old kids as a Team Leader. And in the rare case that there is a young buck in charge, I'm a little nervous. I want my Team Chief to have multiple pumps under his belt, seen it all, shot at it all, and spit a wad of Copenhagen in its eye.
-You don't even know what you don't know yet. There are guys who have gone FMF ==> Frog ==> DEVGRU==> blah blah (same thing in the Army, just different acronyms).... That kind of progression gets harder every step, and you have to spend years in each of those stages before you get the shot at advancing... some of the hardest dudes I know are well beyond "young man" and they can out PT most humans on Earth still.​
3. *Both paths have awesome value.* Don't be paralyzed by fear. Just make a decision because neither is the wrong choice. There's plenty of life left for you to walk another path later.

Soap box complete. I'll go back to being a sarcastic a-hole now.


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## Gunz (Jul 20, 2017)

Wow, that dude got bukakied with advice.


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## Kraut783 (Jul 20, 2017)

I never finished college, I am 50 years old, in the career I want (28 years), retired from the military (Reserves)....I passed my post 9/11 GI Bill to my daughter who has used it and the Hazelwood benefits (Texas) to graduate from Grad school with no student debt.

But....I will always wish I finished college when I was a young man.

The posts above are right, the military will be there when you finish.


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