# Are there still "Paper Tab" people in SF?



## Marauder06 (Apr 11, 2016)

Interesting story about an SF officer, the author speculates he had a "paper tab."  Is it possible that there are still people in who got their tab that way?

*No, I Didn’t Get That SF Colonel Arrested… But I Kind Of Wish I Did*




> Scott also explained to me later that he suspected COL D. was a “paper tab” guy.  Apparently there was a time when you could do the SF Qualification Course via correspondence.  Yes, there was a time you could literally “mail it in” and get your tab.  Scott said he wasn’t sure about the math (they stopped this process a long time ago), but he had heard that COL D. had earned his tab in that way.  Any credibility COL D. had with me was now completely gone


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## DA SWO (Apr 11, 2016)

Was a little more than correspondence courses.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 11, 2016)

Wasn't that the issue with it though, that much of the course was via correspondence followed by a couple of weeks in the field?  Asking because I don't know, not trying to argue.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 11, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Wasn't that the issue with it though, that much of the course was via correspondence followed by a couple of weeks in the field?  Asking because I don't know, not trying to argue.



I don't think there are any guys left, they would be going on 30 years in service at a minimum. Maybe in the reserve or NG though. I never met one.


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2016)

Maybe one of the SF guys can/ will correct me. I'm going off of 20 year old memories.

The "paper tab" used to be almost the only way for the Guard to earn the SF tab; I can't speak for the Reserves. IIRC they did a 2 week or thereabouts field/ Phase 1, Phase 1/3 (weren't they combine in lieu of SFAS at one point?). Then they went back to their unit and did some combo of correspondence courses and maybe signed evaluations before going back for Robin Sage or something similar.

By the mid-90's most of the guys were gone and the only ones who remained were real good dudes. I can only think of one or two left on an ODA with most occupying slots on a B Team, BSC, or HHD. All of them were Vietnam vets. Maybe we were a statistical aberration? I don't know. When the 18 Series CMF came about, or even before, the correspondence course option was gone.

I guess my point is this: anyone beating up someone for the correspondence course route is either ignorant of history or a "difficult personality." All of our guys left in the 90's were still mad they didn't have the option to go to the AD Q Course. I'm pretty sure all follow on courses were done alongside their AD counterparts; BNCOC and ANCOC might be the only exceptions.


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## Devildoc (Apr 11, 2016)

Growing up I was in Civil Air Patrol.  Early 80s through late 80s.  I had some 'camps' at Bragg/Pope, lots of friends in that area.  That's how I met COL. Howard.  Anyways, at one camp we had a 'visiting instructor,' retired but had been in SF, a Lodge Act soldier, who as I recall was a "paper tabber."  He was Lithuanian, maybe?  Latvian?  Can't recall, but an 'L' country.  He told us cadets of 'the old days' of SF and was vehemently anti-communist.  He seemed as much a SF soldier as any other I had met.


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## DA SWO (Apr 11, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Wasn't that the issue with it though, that much of the course was via correspondence followed by a couple of weeks in the field?  Asking because I don't know, not trying to argue.


They had to do Robin Sage IIRC.
2-3 year process, you took classes with the unit and demonstrated proficiency, then AT at Bragg where you did a field problem using all the "knowledge" picked up from the courses.
They still had problems thou


Freefalling said:


> Maybe one of the SF guys can/ will correct me. I'm going off of 20 year old memories.
> 
> The "paper tab" used to be almost the only way for the Guard to earn the SF tab; I can't speak for the Reserves. IIRC they did a 2 week or thereabouts field/ Phase 1, Phase 1/3 (weren't they combine in lieu of SFAS at one point?). Then they went back to their unit and did some combo of correspondence courses and maybe signed evaluations before going back for Robin Sage or something similar.
> 
> ...



Folks need to remember SF was not an entry level MOS like it is today, so getting the Reserve Hq or Guard Bureau to fund a second MOS was not easy (Post Viet Nam Carter era) and this allowed the Reserve/Guard units to meet requirements.
18 Series MOS made it easier to secure funding, having SOCOM around to ask where their training funds go helps also.


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Folks need to remember SF was not an entry level MOS like it is today, so getting the Reserve Hq or Guard Bureau to fund a second MOS was not easy (Post Viet Nam Carter era) and this allowed the Reserve/Guard units to meet requirements.



Oddly (shocking!) this was an issue during the Clinton era for non-SF or aviation MOS'. We lost guys for at least 18 months if they were prior service reclassing to an MOS in our company. State-funded training which meant they did an "AT, year +, AT" cycle before they were MOS qualified; this even affected the Reserves. That caused us to lose several guys PLUS they weren't on the books as MOS Q which meant we took a hit in funding...and that impacted our ability to send more guys to school. In some respects, 9/11 saved the Army Guard.


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## compforce (Apr 11, 2016)

There are definitely some paper tabs still running around.  I knew a few of them at 20th and 2 of them were still there the last I heard, although very close to retirement.  As far as historically, the SF Correspondence Courses were still around in the late 80's.  I ordered and read a few of them (but didn't take the tests) while I was AD at Ft. Campbell back in '87-'88.  At that point, SF Officers were still required to do their command time in conventional units.  Our CDR was an SF CPT and I was assigned as his driver.  He suggested that I take the courses, but they got lost in my PCS to Korea in early '88 and I never reordered them as I had a shot at selection through the recruiters.


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