# Opinions Please



## 1FastSUV (Aug 22, 2017)

College students demand expulsion of white supremacist

I  couldn't disagree more with white supremacists and their ideology.  With that said, my question about expelling them from schools is where does it end?  I'm not a conspiracy theorist but should we expel students because we disagree with their beliefs, no matter how off track they are?


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## policemedic (Aug 22, 2017)

In general, no.

That's a defense of the 1st Amendment and the free marketplace of ideas a university is supposed to be, not an endorsement of white supremacy or other asshattery.

If an individual is encouraging violence, that's a different situation. But championing a viewpoint, even--especially!--an unpopular one should not be cause for expulsion.


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## Lefty375 (Aug 22, 2017)

Did you read the article? Nowhere does it say Damigo is getting expelled, and so, either you are just looking to take part in outrage culture or you just didn't read. If and only if he gets expelled is there an actual conversation to be had here on this issue.


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## 1FastSUV (Aug 22, 2017)

Lefty375 said:


> Did you read the article? Nowhere does it say Damigo is getting expelled, and so, either you are just looking to take part in outrage culture or you just didn't read. If and only if he gets expelled is there an actual conversation to be had here on this issue.


Yes I read the entire article and I also never said he was expelled.   The reason for my post was to point out the fact that people were actually proposing that he get expelled, and the media running the story about it.  
I guess we can agree to disagree.  When a crazy course of action is being debated, I'd rather have a conversation about it before it actually happens.


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## 1FastSUV (Aug 22, 2017)

policemedic said:


> In general, no.
> 
> That's a defense of the 1st Amendment and the free marketplace of ideas a university is supposed to be, not an endorsement of white supremacy or other asshattery.
> 
> If an individual is encouraging violence, that's a different situation. But championing a viewpoint, even--especially!--an unpopular one should not be cause for expulsion.


I agree 1000%    It's a slippery slope when we start proposing penalties for someone's personal ideas/beliefs/opinions that differ from our own.    I think burning the American Flag should be illegal but that's just my opinion, and the Supreme Court disagrees with me.

I was just curious what other members on this forum thought about the original story.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 22, 2017)

1FastSUV said:


> The reason for my post was to point out the fact that people were actually proposing that he get expelled, and the media running the story about it.




Do you understand "why" they want him expelled?

Students want white nationalist punished for punching woman in Berkeley

It is not because of his views, but because he was caught on video assulting a woman at a rally.

Your OP does not mention that very important detail of the story, which I think is a pretty vital piece of   information to have, yes?

Especially if you are asking for opinions about the headline.

As @Lefty375 alluded to, too many people see a headline and don't bother to read the story for context; instead they go straight to outrage mode.  Which is what appears happened here.

"Hate" because...


1FastSUV said:


> I guess we can agree to disagree.



...because I hate that passive aggressive strategy of ending an argument. Especially when your OP, in comparison to the actual story, would cause one to belief you did not know the full facts and context of the article.

To add, with the added information, do you still believe this is a first amendment issue and he should not be expelled?


1FastSUV said:


> I was just curious what other members on this forum thought about the original story.


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## Frank S. (Aug 22, 2017)

policemedic said:


> But championing a viewpoint, even--especially!--an unpopular one should not be cause for expulsion.



*THIS!*
On the other hand, raise enough of a stink, and sure as shit, you will be shat out (pun intended). And you know, like Kyle, I learned something today. 
You know, I guess that when shit gets to the point that people coming to save your ass need to wear body armor, "agree to disagree" don't mean shit (pun intended again).
Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it, which isn't shit (PUN!).


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## Board and Seize (Aug 22, 2017)

Not to hijack this, but I've been reading and thinking about rationality quite a lot lately.  Here we go, building on @Ooh-Rah 's comment about :


1FastSUV said:


> I guess we can agree to disagree.



Well, you say that, but... (if you're both being rational) *no you can't*. 

Enjoy this little nugget.


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## 1FastSUV (Aug 22, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Do you understand "why" they want him expelled?
> 
> Students want white nationalist punished for punching woman in Berkeley
> 
> ...



No, after reading your link I definitely didn't understand why they wanted him expelled.  When I started the thread I had only read the article from the link I posted, and in that article the punch didn't sound like it was the focal point of the proposed expulsion.  The headlines were quite different too.  Headline from your  CBS News link "*Students want white nationalist punished for punching woman in Berkeley*."   Headline from the CBS News one I originally read, "*College students demand expulsion of white supremacist.*"



Ooh-Rah said:


> To add, with the added information, do you still believe this is a first amendment issue and he should not be expelled?


The added information definitely made a difference.


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## policemedic (Aug 22, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Do you understand "why" they want him expelled?
> 
> Students want white nationalist punished for punching woman in Berkeley
> 
> ...



With respect brother, I don't think it matters a whit.  More later.


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## policemedic (Aug 23, 2017)

Damigo was filmed punching a woman in Antifa colors during a rally that turned violent.  From the video, it frankly looks like a mutual fight between him and the Antifa girl (she may have even struck first, but I'd have to slow it down to be sure).  There's no doubt he hit her, and it doesn't matter.

For one, the rally didn't occur at his school.  It wasn't a school sponsored event.  It wasn't related to anything having to do with his school.  He was on his own time, away from his school, not representing his school, expressing his (vile, horrible, depraved) opinions.  

For two, let's assume, _arguendo_, that he threw the first punch at the Antifa girl (a group, by the way, known for and proud of their violent tactics). We can go to any university in this country and find more egregious incidents of violence that didn't result in expulsion--even when they resulted in arrests.  The fact is that universities educate criminals every day.  The level of criminality varies from underage drinking all the way to being on watch lists, from _malum prohibitum _to outright acts of violence.  These people are not always expelled.

With very few exceptions, conduct away from school and which occurs when a student is not representing his school (such as he would be at an academic conference or sporting event) should not result in penalties levied by their school except in exceptional cases.  Let's not forget that Damigo was not arrested or charged (yet).  But even if he was, ponder this: I hold three degrees, and not once was I subjected to a background check.  The same applies to most students unless their program (nursing, for example) is legally required to perform the checks.  I can even think of several cases in Philadelphia where an Ivy League professor and students were arrested, specifically for charges related to their employment or studies, and were not expelled.  As much as Damigo's politics are repulsive, they don't merit expulsion (and let's face it, if he wasn't a racist fuck, we wouldn't care so much about that punch).  I can tell you I've run into people from various academic institutions with criminal records, and professors who openly advocate against the American government and exhort their students to action in support of their beliefs.  This is, to me, equally offensive as racist rhetoric, but it is tolerated without argument or question.

I can think of times when school discipline may be appropriate for conduct away from the school, because the student cannot really be separated from the rules of the school.  For instance, my officers once arrested a student (avoiding rank so as to protect the school) from one of our military academies.  He was an ass.  I understand there was likely some school discipline in addition to the legal action we took.  But the honor code that applies to our service academies is a radically different thing than the rules of a public, state university.


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