# Michael Scheuer vs. Congress on Israel, US Foreign Policy



## TH15 (Oct 28, 2013)

This is definitely a heated exchange. I follow Dr. Scheuer fairly closely and have read several of his books, and found it refreshing to see Congress get told off for once, in my opinion.


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## pardus (Oct 29, 2013)

From that small exert I'd have to say he is quite right.


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## DA SWO (Oct 29, 2013)

He is correct that we are going bankrupt, but to think the GWOT is doing that is absurd.

Fake stimulus packages and other pork barrel projects are doing us in.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 29, 2013)

He's good....doesn't mind mixing it up and calling it like it is.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 29, 2013)

Although I do believe that being the big backer of Israel and having as much influence in the ME plays a huge part in the Jihadist. I don't think we should turn our backs on Israel and I also think its a bit more complicated then his "six reasons". Maybe for the masses of the ME, but last I checked, its not the masses we are fighting.

IDK, everyone has an opinion, and his is obviously more informed than mine, but it doesn't make either right.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 29, 2013)

Him and CNN about Libya, pretty entertaining.


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## Mac_NZ (Oct 30, 2013)

I enjoyed that.  His six reasons are pretty much spot on.  They don't want to fight us because we are free or some of our woman dress like sluts (God bless 'em) but because they see any Western presence in the Middle East as an invasion.

Honest question, does Israel make its decisions based on what is best for Israel or how it could affect the standing of the U.S.A?  I'm willing to be this years profit share its based on what is best for Israel.  When a bunch of Arabs see the only reason that Israel still stands is because of the support of the U.S.A. then you are going to get some hate mail.  I think that's what he's trying to point out.


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## DA SWO (Oct 30, 2013)

Kraut783 said:


> Him and CNN about Libya, pretty entertaining.


The talking heads don't want to acknowledge that tax payer dollars are running low, and that is part of the problem.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 30, 2013)

"Honest question, does Israel make its decisions based on what is best for Israel or how it could affect the standing of the U.S.A?"

I believe Israel will always make decisions based on what is best for Israel......they operate in a constant state of conflict and are surrounded by countries who openly state they wish to destroy Israel.


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## pardus (Oct 30, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> I enjoyed that.  His six reasons are pretty much spot on.  They don't want to fight us because we are free or some of our woman dress like sluts (God bless 'em) but because they see any Western presence in the Middle East as an invasion.
> 
> Honest question, does Israel make its decisions based on what is best for Israel or how it could affect the standing of the U.S.A?  I'm willing to be this years profit share its based on what is best for Israel.  When a bunch of Arabs see the only reason that Israel still stands is because of the support of the U.S.A. then you are going to get some hate mail.  I think that's what he's trying to point out.



Exactly.

The Taliban and AQ guys I talked to didn't have any/much problem with the USA/west, outside of us being on their turf (We never talked about Israel).  

I fully support Israel but I also acknowledge that that comes with a price. One I'm happy to pay. I have no intention of sit idly by and watching a friendly nation be slaughtered just because a bunch of assholes desire it.


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## Scotth (Oct 30, 2013)

Kraut783 said:


> I believe Israel will always make decisions based on what is best for Israel......



I agree with your point.  The only exception to that rule that I have witnessed was during the first Gulf War.  When Israel didn't respond to the Scud attacks is the only time I can recall them putting the US concerns above their own.

First year in school I lived with a Palestinian and I asked him why they hated the US so much.  His direct response was they didn't hate Americans, they hated American policy especially regarding Israel.  That was a pre-GulfWar mentality I think around '89.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 30, 2013)

True, but think about it if the US did not put Patriot systems in place.

It was still in their best interest to not get militarily involved in the gulf war.


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## TH15 (Oct 30, 2013)

In all the Arabs I've talked to, they've resonated the fact that their issues with the US is not necessarily with Americans as people, but with what our gov't does in that region, as Dr. Scheuer points out.

My Arabic professor a few years ago was from Tunisia and I always had discussions with him after class about these issues. His main beef was US support for the former Tunisian authoritarian regime and our propping up of the Saudis. He really never made any mention of the Israelis, although he sympathized with the Palestinian point of view. The Palestinians that I've come across have their main beef with us regarding Israel.

I guess my own personal opinion is that we should let whatever happens in that part of the world happen. I would much rather see them killing each other than killing Americans. I think we need to focus more on ourselves (i.e servicing a $17 trillion debt).


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## DA SWO (Oct 30, 2013)

Just tell Israel to nuke all the Arabs and we can sit on the side lines.

Funny how the Muslims bitch about our support to israel, but ignore Bosnia, Kosovo, Malaysia.


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## SpitfireV (Oct 31, 2013)

It's not like Israel has ever been discreet about their "Best For Israel" policy.


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## hoepoe (Oct 31, 2013)

Scotth said:


> I agree with your point.  The only exception to that rule that I have witnessed was during the first Gulf War.  When Israel didn't respond to the Scud attacks is the only time I can recall them putting the US concerns above their own.


The US refused to provide Israel with the "friendly aircraft ID codes" and thus prevented Israel from retaliating to Saddam's Scuds as a result, to the coalition, Israeli aircraft would have showed up as enemy aircraft (or something like that).


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## reed11b (Oct 31, 2013)

"They don't hate us only our support for Israel...." Fuck. That. Noise. They attacked us on our soil, there wishes and whining matter zip to me. Israel is a far better partner in the region, with simaler cultural needs and desires. Look at how successful working with Pakistan "in our best interest" has turned out.
Reed


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## hoepoe (Oct 31, 2013)

Israel loves the US. The US really supports Israel BUT too often Israel does really stupid things for no good reason.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 31, 2013)

hoepoe said:


> Israel loves the US. The US really supports Israel BUT too often Israel does really stupid things for no good reason.



A bit off topic, but I was wondering what your opinions are on if Israel and the region will ever have a political agreement or lasting peace agreement?

I have my own opinions, but without knowing the culture and ideals of the people from the region, I find it hard to assert them. From your experience and knowledge, is peace or a lasting agreement of sorts possible? Will younger generations have any influence (from either side)? Or will constant conflict always be the name of the game?


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## Marauder06 (Oct 31, 2013)

People whose lives suck for whatever reason need something to hate.  Smart politicians channel that hatred towards something external, to keep their constituencies focused on something other than domestic issues and to prevent that hate from being directed against the local politicians.  As long as neighboring nations remain in the toilet economically, educationally, and/or socially, Israel remains a convenient enemy.


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## Centermass (Oct 31, 2013)

If I lived in a place with nothing but sand for landscape, camel spiders waiting for me to present myself as a HVT, and God awful weather extremes and no starbucks anywhere close, I'd fucking hate everyone else in the world as well......



Kraut783 said:


> True, but think about it if the US did not put Patriot systems in place.
> 
> It was still in their best interest to not get militarily involved in the gulf war.



Which may have very well prevented a nuclear option from being exercised IMO.


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## hoepoe (Nov 1, 2013)

JAB said:


> A bit off topic, but I was wondering what your opinions are on if Israel and the region will ever have a political agreement or lasting peace agreement?
> 
> I have my own opinions, but without knowing the culture and ideals of the people from the region, I find it hard to assert them. From your experience and knowledge, is peace or a lasting agreement of sorts possible? Will younger generations have any influence (from either side)? Or will constant conflict always be the name of the game?



If the leaders are brave enough to swallow their ego's.

This sums it up very well; the author should know, he was head of the Israeli Security Agency/Shin Beth.

ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,00.html


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## pardus (Nov 1, 2013)

hoepoe said:


> If the leaders are brave enough to swallow their ego's.
> 
> This sums it up very well; the author should know, he was head of the Israeli Security Agency/Shin Beth.
> 
> ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,00.html



Looks like we need to read Hebrew for that link to be useful to us mate.


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## hoepoe (Nov 2, 2013)

Apologies, here is the correct link.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4447641,00.html


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## pardus (Nov 2, 2013)

hoepoe said:


> Apologies, here is the correct link.
> 
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4447641,00.html



Cheers mate.


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