# Intel AND Spec Ops



## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

Gentleman,

So I’m in a place in my military career where I need to figure some things out, and I’m torn.
I respect and appreciate all the experience and advice given on this site, so any input or help would be appreciated.

I’ve been in the Marine Corps Reserves for about 6 ½ years as a 1391 and 0916, and I am planning on staying in the reserve/guard component for at least 20 years. However, I do not know which route to go.

I have a very strong desire and passion to do more. I want to be in a direct action job; However, I recently became fascinated with the CI/HUMINT field as well. I feel that I would do really well in it and would love to get into it. At the same time, I want to do something that offers SR, DA, FID, or PR type missions. 

So is there a position/MOS out there that offers the best of these two worlds? Is there an option to do something like CI/HUMINT with a special operations unit allowing me to do the CI/HUMINT job and the training the other side offers? Or, am I going to have to just pick one and be happy with it?

Again, I am currently in the Marine Corps but my dedication is to my country so I would have no problem going Army, Air Force, or Navy…

Thanks in advance for any advice and helping me get my ducks in a row….or maybe a tactical column….that seems more fitting….




Also, I verified with a mod beforehand, but this is posted in the Army and Marine forum as well because the Intel/Support forum doesn’t seem to get as much traffic as the others.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 6, 2013)

Jrod1188 said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> So I’m in a place in my military career where I need to figure some things out, and I’m torn.
> I respect and appreciate all the experience and advice given on this site, so any input or help would be appreciated.
> ...


 

Negative.  You get one thread per topic, you don't spam our forum with multiple identical threads.  If a mod told you something different, they are wrong and need to PM me about it.

This is an intel topic and it will be discussed- or not- in the intel forum.  The other identical threads are closed.


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## Short Round (Mar 6, 2013)

I recently completed the screening process for CI/HUMINT and somehow passed. Make sure if this is what you decide to do that you prepare as much as possible before attempting the board. I am infantry and have worked several times with HET in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is my understanding that some individuals are attached to the more high speed units for specific tasks however I don't want to speculate as to how they are chosen for such work. Your best bet is to talk to one of the CI/HUMINT recruiters and ask them these questions in person, as a public forum is a very good medium to violate OPSEC without realizing it. If you're aboard Camp Pendleton PM me and I can point you in the right direction to the recruiters.
Again I'm not in the 0211 field I'm still in the infantry pending my orders to make the move but I do have an intimate knowledge of what it takes to succeed in the screening process.


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## amlove21 (Mar 6, 2013)

I know we talked about it beforehand- and I wasn't clear. I wanted you to pick a good heading to clear up confusion and post it in a single forum. I'll take some of the blame on this one. 

Mara- PM inbound.


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## 0699 (Mar 6, 2013)

9916?


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

That was my fault. I missunderstood the advice given. Will adjust fire for future posts.


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## Kraut783 (Mar 6, 2013)

0699 said:


> 9916?


 
I guess a non MOS specific paragraph line number slot?

*9916, Billet Designator :*

*Summary*. This MOS will be used in T/O's to designate a billet to which any enlisted Marine may be assigned but will not be assigned to an individual. 
 *Requirements/Prerequisites*. None. 
 *Duties*. As assigned.


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

Short Round said:


> I recently completed the screening process for CI/HUMINT and somehow passed. Make sure if this is what you decide to do that you prepare as much as possible before attempting the board. I am infantry and have worked several times with HET in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is my understanding that some individuals are attached to the more high speed units for specific tasks however I don't want to speculate as to how they are chosen for such work. Your best bet is to talk to one of the CI/HUMINT recruiters and ask them these questions in person, as a public forum is a very good medium to violate OPSEC without realizing it. If you're aboard Camp Pendleton PM me and I can point you in the right direction to the recruiters.
> Again I'm not in the 0211 field I'm still in the infantry pending my orders to make the move but I do have an intimate knowledge of what it takes to succeed in the screening process.


 
I have been working with my PS recruiter who has given me two names.  Ive contacted both but havent heard back.  My main question is, is there a balance out there in which you would do both on a consistant basis?


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## 0699 (Mar 6, 2013)

Kraut783 said:


> I guess a non MOS specific paragraph line number slot?
> 
> *9916, Billet Designator :*
> 
> ...


 
That's what I'm trying to figure out; why would he list that as an MOS?


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

[quoteis


0699 said:


> 9916?


 
"0699, post: 271977, member: 62"]9916?[/quote]

Sorry...using a tab and a phone for posting. That was a typeo. 0916 - martial arts instructor


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## Short Round (Mar 6, 2013)

Jrod1188 said:


> Ive contacted both but havent heard back. My main question is, is there a balance out there in which you would do both on a consistant basis?


 Again, I'm not in a position to give you a definitive answer on anything 0211. But using the logic of the military I would say no. There is no Jason Bourne MOS in the military, although I'm sure that somewhere in the deep dark corners of the special forces universe he does exist. Before you start thinking about direct action missions why not spend a few years in the regular infantry first.
No one turns the treadmill to full speed and then jumps on hoping to sprint.


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## goon175 (Mar 6, 2013)

There is stuff out there that fits your description, but their slots are filled with seasoned SOF guys. If you want to get into a gig like you described, then going through a SOF selection would be the best route to go.


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

Short Round said:


> Again, I'm not in a position to give you a definitive answer on anything 0211. But using the logic of the military I would say no. There is no Jason Bourne MOS in the military, although I'm sure that somewhere in the deep dark corners of the Special Forces universe he does exist. Before you start thinking about direct action missions why not spend a few years in the regular infantry first.
> No one turns the treadmill to full speed and then jumps on hoping to sprint.


 

I see your point.
One of the reasons I ask is because I don’t know everything that’s out there in the other branches nor do I know how their CI/HUMINT guys operate and how they are placed throughout different units.

I’m not necessarily trying to jump on the treadmill while it’s going at full speed, but I do not think that I would like being with a traditional infantry company AS much.  While they’re closely related they’re a different beast from the special operations capable units from my understanding at least.  I will never rule anything out, but just not what I want to shoot for.


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

goon175 said:


> There is stuff out there that fits your description, but their slots are filled with seasoned SOF guys. If you want to get into a gig like you described, then going through a SOF selection would be the best route to go.


 
Goon..thank you for the advice.  Can you provide information on what positions those would be without violating any OPSEC?  Also, would that be a position in the Army that you're referring to?

So, in your opinion, it would be better to go through the SF pipeline and get into the field and THEN try to get into a CI or HUMINT position on a team or with a group instead of the other way around?


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## Stork (Mar 6, 2013)

MARSOC is taking CI/HUMINT Marines as SOCS.  None have come straight from the school-house.  I think all have 0211 combat tours.  To deploy with an MSOC/MSOT you would undergo their work-up.  You're looking at quite a while before you'd even get here.

http://www.marsoc.marines.mil/Recruiting/SpecialOperationsCapabilitiesSpecialist.aspx

I would suggest you prioritize what you want to do (pull triggers or do intel).  Then, go AD and lat move into that.  But you need to be clear in your head what you're there for.  If you go to your OIC/Chief as a CI/HUMINTer thinking you're there to be a door kicker, you're going to be sorely disappointed.  Generally, really cool jobs go to guys who got noticed doing well at the less cool jobs first (but IMHO few 0211 jobs are uncool).


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## JrodBones (Mar 6, 2013)

Stork said:


> Then, go AD and lat move into that.


Only problem is that I am trying to stay reserves or guard. Single dad. I've received feedback from guys on here and know that with a field like that I will see more deployments and training than normal reserve or guard units, but the main issue would be the PCS that I cannot do.



Stork said:


> But you need to be clear in your head what you're there for.


And that is what brought me here. I'm having trouble deciding between the two. I have a strong passion or am drawn to both and feel that I would do great in either one as soon as I put my mind and energy into it.



Stork said:


> (but IMHO few 0211 jobs are uncool).


I've also heard that there aren't any "uncool" jobs in the 0211 field. When I went through the MAI course I was rooming with an intel guy that was with a sniper platoon. He went through some of the selection for 0211 and gave me a little info. After that I started looking into it more and more and really feel I would love it. I have some psychology background with civilian education as well so it's been an interest of mine for some time. I just use to view all intel jobs as "boring" because I knew nothing about them.


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## goon175 (Mar 6, 2013)

If you want to stay part-time, then the closest you will probably ever get is going SF NG.


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## JrodBones (Mar 7, 2013)

goon175 said:


> If you want to stay part-time, then the closest you will probably ever get is going SF NG.


 
Goon.
Thank you for the advice.
That was what I was thinking…

I was looking at going that route and was dead set on it.
I contacted the unit in CA, was set to go to the SFRE, was training and prepping, and was dedicating myself to it.
Then found info on the CI/HUMINT field and started to become extremely interested in that field.  I really like the purpose they serve, what they do, and how they are utilized.  However, I was trying to see if there were any units out there that specifically have billets or positions for them.

For example, a friend/coworker of mine was an 18B and I asked him about it.  He said there were only like two times that he remembers actually taking HUMINT guys with them or escorting them to where they were going.

Ignore this is OPSEC risk (or PM if possible):
So when a group goes out do they use 35M soldiers for questioning or does another 18 series guy do it?


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## DA SWO (Mar 7, 2013)

You can't have the best of three worlds.

You want to be a HUMINT Guy who is also a high-speed door kicker, but only part time.

Those NG/Reserve guys/gals do more then one weekend/month.
They deploy, alot.
How would a deployment fit in with the single-dad gig?

IMHO: Dad is the most importent job you can have, find a Reserve/Guard job that fits your dad schedule and be the best Dad/Marine you can be.
Be proud of your service, and give 100%.


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## JrodBones (Mar 8, 2013)

SOWT said:


> You can't have the best of three worlds.
> 
> You want to be a HUMINT Guy who is also a high-speed door kicker, but only part time.
> 
> ...


 
SOWT,


Thank you very much for your input.

Please let me clarify, I’m not necessarily trying to be a HUMINT guy and door kicker.
I was just wondering if there were any opportunities at some of those “high speed” units that utilize 0211/35M guys.
For example, when a team takes an HVT who is doing the questioning and interrogating?  Is it a 35M, another 18 series guy, or some other MOS that I don’t know about?  I see a need for it in special operations units, but I just don’t know how they fulfill that need. 

I know it’s difficult to have all three, but I’m just trying to see what is out there.

My primary need is being either NG or reserve for my kids.  I can deploy and I can do more than the one weekend a month.  With joint legal custody, I cannot PCS though, so that is why I need a “part-time” thing.


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## 0699 (Mar 8, 2013)

Something I learned a long time ago...

You either find the job you love and move whereever that job takes you, or you decide where you want to live and take the job that is available there.  Very rarely can you have your cake and eat it too.


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## JrodBones (Mar 8, 2013)

0699 said:


> Something I learned a long time ago...
> 
> You either find the job you love and move whereever that job takes you, or you decide where you want to live and take the job that is available there. Very rarely can you have your cake and eat it too.


0699,
I've definitely found that to be true too...especially in the reserve component.  That's the exact reason I'm in the MOS that I'm in, because it's the only one offered here in Phoenix, AZ.  However, I'm definitely willing to travel every month in order to do an job that I will love and will commit to.  Now it's just a matter of finding it.  I know I want to do the CI/HUMINT job, I'm just curious as to how they're placed throughout the Marine Corps and Army and how they work with/in the special operations capable units.

I appreciate your advice.


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## Brill (Mar 10, 2013)

I wish a 35m would admit what they really do: nothing high speed and clandestine.

I'm not MOS bashing here but the Cloak & Dagger it is not.


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## 0699 (Mar 10, 2013)

Jrod1188 said:


> 0699,
> I've definitely found that to be true too...especially in the reserve component. That's the exact reason I'm in the MOS that I'm in, because it's the only one offered here in Phoenix, AZ. However, I'm definitely willing to travel every month in order to do an job that I will love and will commit to. Now it's just a matter of finding it. I know I want to do the CI/HUMINT job, I'm just curious as to how they're placed throughout the Marine Corps and Army and how they work with/in the special operations capable units.
> 
> I appreciate your advice.


 
Dude.  You COMPLETELY missed my point.  In the future I will try to be less confusing with my advice.  Or I'll go back to keeping my mouth shut; that usually works out better for me. 

Good luck.


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## Salt USMC (Mar 10, 2013)

Jrod1188 said:


> 0699,
> I've definitely found that to be true too...especially in the reserve component. That's the exact reason I'm in the MOS that I'm in, because it's the only one offered here in Phoenix, AZ. However, I'm definitely willing to travel every month in order to do an job that I will love and will commit to. Now it's just a matter of finding it. I know I want to do the CI/HUMINT job, I'm just curious as to how they're placed throughout the Marine Corps and Army and how they work with/in the special operations capable units.


 
Check to see if any of the subordinate units of Intel Support BN are near you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_Support_Battalion

They're your best bet for finding an 0211 job in the reserves.


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## EverSoLost (Mar 12, 2013)

lindy said:


> I wish a 35m would admit what they really do: nothing high speed and clandestine.
> 
> I'm not MOS bashing here but the Cloak & Dagger it is not.


 Clerical duties, mixed with alot of high speed chest thumping?

The only time my "MI" experience came into play was with handling Class or assisting the "B" Team Fox, with IO or Clerances (So really not at all). But I was an AGR so my gig was really just general "Readiness" for the M-Day types. Although I did get to do a JCET and go to gryhpon group both were awesome! (All assigned to the ODB)

When I did hold a 35M "billet" I listened to the part timers tell "James Borne" stories about their capabilities mostly and didnt see anything "Cool" mostly just a bunch of dissapointed guys or linguists who just wanted to be linguists. Everyones mileage varies I imagine.

I think the 35 F/N/S types are really doing pretty cool work though that can have a great effect.


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## EverSoLost (Mar 12, 2013)

I should add my experience is very limited so my observations may not apply to all Reserve/NG Units. I'm not saying "How it is", I'm just saying thats how I "saw" it; or alot of reading, briefing and typing really.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 21, 2013)

A lot of what you're going to be doing depends on the unit.  When I was in Group, the MI guys other than the SOT-As got to do very little.  Almost nothing in fact, at the Group level (down at the battalions it was a bit different).  In subsequent SOF units to which I was assigned, things were a lot different.  If you have a commander who understands intel, and if you're in a unit in which intel from intel types is appreciated, AND you demonstrate competence, you can get into some very, very interesting stuff as an intel guy.  But that's a lot of "ifs"...


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## Short Round (Mar 21, 2013)

In an effort to avoid opening another thread on a topic very much the same as this I'd like to toss a question out there to anyone with CI/HUMINT experience .

What should my expectations be going from the infantry (6 1/2 years as 0331/0352) to 0211. My hopes are that I'll get to deploy more often and do something different. My fear is that I'll be stateside behind a desk making powerpoints for the flagpole.
I'm at a point where I can either stay on with my SDA and go back to a victor unit or complete my lat move. I just don't want to be sitting behind a desk in four years wondering why I'm so bored.


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## 1Rex1 (Mar 24, 2013)

Dude sounds like you should just go the SF route, and say f*ck it.


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## AWP (Mar 24, 2013)

1Rex1, please provide an Introduction in the correct subforum before posting again.


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## 1Rex1 (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry about that, it's done.


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## AWP (Mar 24, 2013)

No worries, drive on.


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## Sampaguita (Apr 5, 2013)

0699 said:


> Something I learned a long time ago...
> 
> You either find the job you love and move whereever that job takes you, or you decide where you want to live and take the job that is available there. Very rarely can you have your cake and eat it too.


 
Can't say it any clearer than that!


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## surgicalcric (Apr 6, 2013)

lindy said:


> I wish a 35m would admit what they really do: nothing high speed and clandestine.
> 
> I'm not MOS bashing here but the Cloak & Dagger it is not.


 
Well said Bro...well said.


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## surgicalcric (Apr 6, 2013)

Jrod:

As others have said, you cant have your cake and eat it too.

You need to decide whether you are a fit for SOF/SF by reading the mission profiles of each unit, learning about the kind of guys each is looking for, and doing some serious introspection.  Each SOF unit has unique missions with some overlap.  If you are looking to be a "doorkicker" please stay away from the SF Regiment - we have far too many guys who believe they only need to speak 5.56mm and 7.62mm for the good of the mission and the Regiment.

There are no CI slots on an SF ODA; we dont need them.  We also dont take HUMINT guys along on targets as a general rule.  More traditional HUMINT type duties and training, which for an SF ODA is a bit different than it is in the conventional military, may be offered to a soldier after he figures out the ins and outs of his job on a team or as they become available; this may take a year or two for some.  The additional duties (HUMINT, Sniper, DMT, Dive Sup, Jumpmaster, etc) are just that, additional duties.  Strict HUMINT guys are at the SF BN and Group levels.   

However must want to be SF first (this principle would be the same for MARSOC, SEALs, Ranger Reg, PJ/CCT, etc).  You must have what it takes to get selected and make it through the SFQC then you must continue to be a solid performer to stay on a team.  You have quite a few close targets to worry about before you start worrying about additional duties - the famous 25m target.

NG SF is just as much a commitment as AD SF in many aspects requiring a much greater dedication than the weekend warriors of conventional NG units.  

To echo what I said earlier, you would do well to do a lot of reading and an equal amount of introspection in deciding what to do.

Crip


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## Teufel (Apr 6, 2013)

Short Round said:


> In an effort to avoid opening another thread on a topic very much the same as this I'd like to toss a question out there to anyone with CI/HUMINT experience .
> 
> What should my expectations be going from the infantry (6 1/2 years as 0331/0352) to 0211. My hopes are that I'll get to deploy more often and do something different. My fear is that I'll be stateside behind a desk making powerpoints for the flagpole.
> I'm at a point where I can either stay on with my SDA and go back to a victor unit or complete my lat move. I just don't want to be sitting behind a desk in four years wondering why I'm so bored.


 
I'm not a HUMINT guy but I am an intel guy who was retread from the infantry community myself.  HET dudes deploy a lot.  They certainly don't push desks too often.  Not to be sexist but the women in that community find themselves taking up the desk jobs because the bulk of deploying HUMINT assignments in the Marine Corps are with infantry battalions.  There are a ton of opportunities with MARSOC as well.  The Army tends to train SF dudes to be HUMINTers, the Marine Corps trains HUMINTers to keep up with MARSOCers.  Not saying which is better but that's the way I understand things have broken down between the services.  That creates more special operations opportunities for our HUMINTers and less for the Army HUMINTers.


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## 8654Maine (Apr 6, 2013)

Allow me a reality check here:  your ground rule for staying reserve/NG is that you're a single dad.

Regarding your high speed aspirations that you have, what is your primary goal?

Experienced folks here have already stated that, generally, you can't be both,  intel and a door kicker (very few Jason Bournes around)

But that also works w/ being a parent and in the military:  it would be very difficult to be an effective single dad (I'm assuming full custody) and be high speed (due to deployment and training commitments).  Anyone who has a different experience, please chime in.

Which is more important to you?


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## BravoOne (Apr 8, 2013)

"The Army tends to train SF dudes to be HUMINTers, the Marine Corps trains HUMINTers to keep up with MARSOCers".

I concur with Teufel. Marine HET personnel do more HSLD stuff than our 35M or Ls do straight out of the schoolhouse.

An important fact to realize is that all the Marine CI/HUMINT guys are TACTICAL. Soldiers do Strategic AND Tactical depending on needs of the Army. Meaning a Soldier right out of the schoolhouse COULD be in a suit and tie at a Resident/Field Office of the 902nd (or other agency) doing investigations and CI/CE operations OR he could be thrown into a tactical assignment and ride around in a Stryker. From what I have heard rarely will a Marine 0211 get an assignment to NCIS or something along those lines. Another clue to the TACTICAL nature of the 0211's work is their pipeline is much different than ours. The males go to Army Airborne School pretty much automatically (from the 0211s that Ive met) and SERE is required (or at least it was for him and his battlebuddies he didnt specify), a good bit seem to get dive school afterwards (if they can pass the diving requirements). From what he told me any school the males wanted was available. I also know that he went to an evasive driving course. He had disparaging things to say about Female 0211s. Something about they werent "asked" to do much and never went out of the wire. Im not sure about Female Marines but the 0211s that I have bumped into wind up with gold wings. In the Army, unless a 35L/M is going to be assigned to an Airborne unit BAC is not automatic at all nor is SERE and definitely not dive. Close friend of mine left the 0211 world and came over to the Army. He has the gold wings and the silver bubble and he has worked with "Radio Recon" and Force Recon on numerous occasions. He was never bored but they deployed "all the time". He came over to us before MARSOC was around (if I recall correctly). I have never asked what he was doing with Radio Recon or Force... I dont really need to. I know what Marine Recon does and what tactical CI does and have to figure that if they wanted and PAID for him to go to the schools they needed to "Get to work" whatever he was doing once he got there was a combination of the two (but of course the CI/HUMIT work was his cross to bear). When he was considering coming to the Army his resume made him a highly desirable candidate for "Great Skills" and some SMU that we did not discuss but they only take AD folks. Anyway... Id say he was pretty happy with his life as an 0211 and life changes are (as far as I can tell) the only reason he came into the Army Reserves as a 35L30. 

From the discussions that I had with him Reserve 0211 slots werent nearly as available as 35L slots. Also I think he came over not just for the different lifestyle but he wants to drop a Warrant Packet (Army CI is hurting really bad for 351L)


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## Short Round (Apr 9, 2013)

BravoOne and Teufel, honestly thanks for the insight. I have truly been on the fence about this switch and my command has been trying to sway me in the opposite direction by telling me I'll be shoved in a closet somewhere evaluating paper shredder effectiveness.
It's nice to hear an unbiased opinion on the matter.


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## Brill (Apr 11, 2013)

The D-25 deluxe will handle 15 sheets every 3.2 seconds.


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## JrodBones (Dec 1, 2014)

I know this thread hasnt had activity in a while but a lot of the people who responded are still around and I'm back to square one...well, negative square one if that's possible.

Teufel and BravoOne: Thank you very much for your input, I definitely appreciate it.

Due to tattoo regs my options are now limited to only Marine Corps routes.
I'm still looking into a few options. The main reason this is a big decision is I will pretty much be finishing all of the years I have in the field I LAT move to (in 8+ and shooting for 20+).

I still have some research to do and hard decisions to make.

Thanks again gents.


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## devilbones (Dec 2, 2014)

JrodBones said:


> I know this thread hasnt had activity in a while but a lot of the people who responded are still around and I'm back to square one...well, negative square one if that's possible.
> 
> Teufel and BravoOne: Thank you very much for your input, I definitely appreciate it.
> 
> ...


Can you explain how the tattoo regs have limited your options?  If you have them documented, arent you good to go?


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## BravoOne (Dec 5, 2014)

Army CI and tattoos are a NoGo. Its been like that with Army MI for a long time. 

Jrod something to consider since you are a civilian is looking for Force Protection opportunities with government agencies (NCIS, OSI,). The OSI recently had an announcement on USAJOBS. They get some good training and do high speed HUMINT/CI. The OSI CounterTerrorism teams deploy a lot and work with SOF. I am not sure what the NCIS or OSI policy on bodyart is though.


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## devilbones (Dec 9, 2014)

BravoOne said:


> Army CI and tattoos are a NoGo. Its been like that with Army MI for a long time.
> 
> Jrod something to consider since you are a civilian is looking for Force Protection opportunities with government agencies (NCIS, OSI,). The OSI recently had an announcement on USAJOBS. They get some good training and do high speed HUMINT/CI. The OSI CounterTerrorism teams deploy a lot and work with SOF. I am not sure what the NCIS or OSI policy on bodyart is though.


Thanks, I misread his post.  I thought he said his Marine Corps options were limited.  Good to know.


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## JrodBones (Feb 7, 2015)

DevilBones and Bravo One, thank you for the response.

Unfortunately my tattoos are not documented, one upside and downside of the reserves. My options are not AS limited in the Marines if I can find someone to work with me even with the tattoos.

I mainly meant options with other branches. Ran into issues with Air Force TACP, and Army (EOD and SF).

I've been reading about potential changes with tattoos in both the Marine Corps and Army, so keeping my fingers crossed but not holding my breath.


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