# Commo Advice



## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2016)

Wife's company is looking to upgrade comms.  It's a leadership consulting firm that does a lot of training outdoors in both rural and urban settings.  Range 2-3 miles, looking for rechargeable, waterproof, rugged.  Organization is well funded but will be a factor.  I had in mind Motorola radios with repeater/retrans but not sure if it's necessary for the retrans or how that would even work.

Looking for advice (and links) on what models to purchase, and discussion on whether retrans is useful for such short distances.  Thanks.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 18, 2016)

- cell phone would work well;)


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2016)

The thing is, they don't.  The area right outside the gate is largely a dead area.  Line of sight works well, cell doesn't.  Cell use also defeats the purpose of the tactical-driven scenario.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 18, 2016)

4K Solutions | Direct Critical Communications Support

Owned/operated by AFSOC/75th alumni, has great connections for any ancillary gear that might be necessary.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 18, 2016)

If I help can I get a free trust fall?

:-"


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## digrar (Jun 19, 2016)

We use Motorola XPR 6550 VHF hand helds at work. They'll have way more features than what is required, but what they are is bullet proof. Our bomb crew have been beating the shit out of them for 12 hours a day for a couple of years now and they're still kicking.
Get a decent UHF Motorola handheld and they'll get the job done.


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## Brill (Jun 19, 2016)

digrar said:


> We use Motorola XPR 6550 VHF hand helds at work.



DMR. I like it!


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## AWP (Jun 19, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> I had in mind Motorola radios with repeater/retrans but not sure if it's necessary for the retrans or how that would even work.



I know you aren't a comm guy, but where are you going to stage a retrans site?


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## Brill (Jun 19, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I know you aren't a comm guy, but where are you going to stage a retrans site?



Um...everywhere?

DMR-MARC Networked Repeaters


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## AWP (Jun 19, 2016)

lindy said:


> Um...everywhere?
> 
> DMR-MARC Networked Repeaters



Which is wonderful on that network, but if he's supplying his own then location becomes problematic. I seriously doubt mara was thinking along your lines, so kudos to joining the discussion.


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## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I know you aren't a comm guy, but where are you going to stage a retrans site?



At a 2-3 mile range, unless there's a lot of "dead" ground or coniferous vegetation to eat up signals, with a quality UHF handheld; I don't see the need for retran.  Unless they have a base station and use it.


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## AWP (Jun 19, 2016)

RackMaster said:


> At a 2-3 mile range, unless there's a lot of "dead" ground or coniferous vegetation to eat up signals, with a quality UHF handheld; I don't see the need for retran.  Unless they have a base station and use it.



I totally agree, but he mentioned it and even within that range conditions won't always allow for 2-3 miles. Base stations, vehicular systems, and retrans all tether you to a vehicle or structure. The latter would require a portable setup that can be secured, again a vehicle or structure.

Motorola handheld for the win with the caveat that range can fluctuate. You, lindy, and others understand that, but mara may not. The Motorola XTS 5000 is the only model I'm really familiar with and it is discontinued. 1 to 3 or 5W output (I forget), but it wouldn't always go 2-3 miles even with a clear line of sight. Newer models may be different, I don't know.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 19, 2016)

There is over a dozen ways to skin this cat....

It sounds like a simple ptt route is the way to go....

Motorola is one way but I think a mesh network is more robust...currently working some figures....


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## digrar (Jun 19, 2016)

lindy said:


> DMR. I like it!



Yeah they went rolls Royce when they swapped us over from the old VHF system. Crystal clear comms, with the repeater network we can talk from the rail head in one direction, to the bottom of the pit 100km away, to the face of the new development drive in the underground project.


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## RackMaster (Jun 20, 2016)

@Marauder06 do you have an idea of # of end users?


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## Brill (Jun 20, 2016)

digrar said:


> Yeah they went rolls Royce when they swapped us over from the old VHF system. Crystal clear comms, with the repeater network we can talk from the rail head in one direction, to the bottom of the pit 100km away, to the face of the new development drive in the underground project.



100km away? Bet you're routed over IP.


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## digrar (Jun 20, 2016)

Bit of that going on, from what I understand when the next project comes on line in 2019, they'll be able to talk from development face, to development face at two separate underground mines which are about 400km away from each other. 
 Probably getting us to the point where they can remote mine from head office and not have to pay bogger and jumbo operators $1200 a day.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 20, 2016)

That will never happen... but the yard will micromanage everything from air conditioning... just you watch.


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## moobob (Jun 21, 2016)

digrar said:


> We use Motorola XPR 6550 VHF hand helds at work. They'll have way more features than what is required, but what they are is bullet proof. Our bomb crew have been beating the shit out of them for 12 hours a day for a couple of years now and they're still kicking.
> Get a decent UHF Motorola handheld and they'll get the job done.



What he said. Any decent UHF handheld should be fine for the range and task you're describing. Can go VHF (longer range) unless you do want to set up a repeater in case they test them out and can't make comms somewhere.

VHF is generally longer range, but UHF could be a better choice if it's a heavily wooded area. You can get dual band radios and see what works better for that area. I guess it depends on how much time and money you want to put into it.


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## Etype (Jun 21, 2016)

Have you tried these? I hear they are only limited by the length of the string.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 21, 2016)

RackMaster said:


> @Marauder06 do you have an idea of # of end users?


20 total


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## Marauder06 (Jun 21, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I know you aren't a comm guy, but where are you going to stage a retrans site?



The hotel they operate out of is one of the highest points in the area.  I imagine that if they set one up on the roof they could range everywhere they wanted to train... but it sounds like they might not need one.


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## Centermass (Jun 21, 2016)

What's available as to their budget? In the end, that's what it will come down to.

The TRBO model digrar mentioned (XPR 6550) goes for around 300 - 700 a pop. Then, it comes down to a few other considerations.

Gang Chargers - 1 centralized location where all radios are located when not in use and charged.

Single Unit Charger - If the radio is issued, assigned to the user and they are responsible for its control, and keeping it charged, either at their office or at home.

Batteries - Motorola OEM's are around 65 each.

Any other peripherals - ear pieces, hand mic's, mobile unit (Used as a base station)

Base station radio - Handheld or a mobile unit?

Antenna - Whether Vhf or Uhf for the base station (If used) and where it will be mounted (Think top of the building) and then, routing of the coax (How many feet of coax)

Try before you buy - There are several companies around your area you can consult with, rent their radios and systems first. See what works, what doesn't and go from there.

Shoot me a PM if you need further.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 24, 2016)

4k will come to you and demo the gear in the environment you'll be using it in....  just because he's building things for Bragg don't mean he can't hook you guys up too.  Telling ya....


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