# Glock Vs. M&p Write-up



## AWP (Nov 15, 2010)

I’m going to write this with a few caveats, maybe it will help some of you, maybe not.
Caveats: I’m relatively “new” to shooting in comparison to most of the board, the guns I have are slightly dissimilar, and I didn’t put many rounds through them all things considered. With that in mind:
I own a Gen 3 Glock 23 and a S&W M&P Pro also in .40 so I thought I’d do a write-up on the two since they are similar and compete in the same market so to speak.
 The Glock is out of the box stock with zero mods. The .40 Pro comes from the factory with a lightened trigger pull (~4.5-5 lbs.) and to that I had my ‘smith add an Apex Tactical Comp AEK. The Pro comes with a .60 fiber optic front sight to which I swapped the green for a red fiber. Lastly, I had the entire grip stippled. So, they aren’t comparable models.
 With that said, I also only fired about 100 rounds through each of them.
 Grip: Without a Gen 4 Glock I can’t say they are equal here. Both “point” well for me and feel more or less the same. The “Glock hump” feels a little odd when dry-firing but I didn’t notice it when shooting. The M&P has a removable back strap in 3 different sizes which I really like but they lose points for the material as it is rubber-like and not the same consistency as the rest of the grip.
Trigger: This is the largest and most obvious difference between the two. I think Glock’s website quotes a ~5.5 lb. pull and the S&W Pro is supposed to be ~4.5-5.0. The work I had done to it probably drops mine to around 3 lbs. The difference to me is in the length of the pull. The design of the S&W safety has you taking up the safety as part of the pull; the trigger is actually hinged for the bottom portion unlike Glock’s safety in the center of the trigger. While there’s no weight or resistance to overcome, it makes for a long pull. Both have almost no creep to them and a short reset, but the M&P’s isn’t that positive. To that end, Apex has just released their RAM to overcome this. While you can spend about the same for a good, light trigger for both pistols, depending on your application some would argue you shouldn’t need to do any trigger work. I guess this is a matter of preference. Out of the box, I think the Glock wins hands down.
 Accuracy: I didn’t test this but I’ve seen Larry Vickers and Jason Falla compare the two. I’ll say they are both more qualified than I to rate the pistols here and the results were the same in that neither pistol had an edge (given similar models).
Reliability: At about 100 rounds you can’t judge too much here, but shooting the same Federal 165 gr. ammo I had zero failures in either pistol.
 Sights: I think the M&P has better factory sights, but many of us would replace these straight-away regardless of the pistol.
 Conclusion: I’d trust my life to either pistol although the M&P is being set up as a competition gun. I don’t think you’d notice any issues with either though I think the factory trigger on the Glock is better (regardless of the M&P model). Ultimately, what are you comfortable with and if the trigger is an issue then cleaning it up isn’t too much of a problem or that expensive. The S&W team just did really well at the USPSA Nationals so the M&P will run with the Glocks. I’d recommend either gun to anyone.


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## Manolito (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the write up. I carry a Glock 36 in .45 and a Sig P239 in .40.  The wife carries a Smith 442 and a M&P 9MM.
I am convinced the Glock will go bang every time and I am convinced in my wifes case she should trust the wheel gun  only because of the purse environment even thought the gun has its own compartment in the purse.
I wanted to ask if you would carry your competition gun once completed. The reason I ask is the light recoil spring I am guessing you are going to put in and the reduced trigger pull. Will you feel confident carrying this pistol CCW.
Thanks
Bill


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## The91Bravo (Nov 15, 2010)

Good right up, thanks


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## Centermass (Nov 15, 2010)

Nice review Free.

I would recommend to anyone considering the purchase of a new Gen 4 Glock that they hold off and wait until the bugs are worked out in them, mainly the dual RSA setup, unless you're savvy enough to retrofit it with a Gen 3 RSA. In the vid below, around the 3 min mark, you can see the comparison of both during the ejection cycle.


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## AWP (Nov 15, 2010)

Manolito said:


> Thanks for the write up. I carry a Glock 36 in .45 and a Sig P239 in .40. The wife carries a Smith 442 and a M&P 9MM.
> I am convinced the Glock will go bang every time and I am convinced in my wifes case she should trust the wheel gun only because of the purse environment even thought the gun has its own compartment in the purse.
> I wanted to ask if you would carry your competition gun once completed. The reason I ask is the light recoil spring I am guessing you are going to put in and the reduced trigger pull. Will you feel confident carrying this pistol CCW.
> Thanks
> Bill



Bill, would I? A full sized handgun isn't my thing for carry purposes and like you pointed out, the trigger changes have an increased potential for failure. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate with any of the factory M&P's, but my comp gun would be...third on my depth chart for a carry gun behind my Glock and USP Compact, especially once I change the recoil spring to tune the pistol to relaoded ammo.


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## AWP (Nov 15, 2010)

And thank you, guys, I tried to keep it simple.


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## Cabbage Head (Nov 19, 2010)

Nice job, Free.  Been using a Glock on the job for years, like 17 or so.  Having used it so long I have come accustomed to the grip angle it has. When I fired a M&P 40 I found myself printing good groups where I thought the sights were at.  My issue was the grip angle, once I figured it out Iwas good to go.

Ended up selling it as I had too many issues with transitioning the grip angle from pistol to pistol.

Its apples and oranges, fire whatever works for you the best.  Or what looks cooler.....


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## Polar Bear (Nov 20, 2010)

Manolito said:


> Thanks for the write up. I carry a Glock 36 in .45 and a Sig P239 in .40. The wife carries a Smith 442 and a M&P 9MM.
> I am convinced the Glock will go bang every time and I am convinced in my wifes case she should trust the wheel gun only because of the purse environment even thought the gun has its own compartment in the purse.
> I wanted to ask if you would carry your competition gun once completed. The reason I ask is the light recoil spring I am guessing you are going to put in and the reduced trigger pull. Will you feel confident carrying this pistol CCW.
> Thanks
> Bill



Just my .13 cents. As a an instructor I reccomend to students....DO NOT MESS WITH THE TRIGGER IN YOUR CCDW PISTOL. If you ever have to use it and kill or shoot someone, your ass is in a sling. A lawyer will tear you apart.


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## 8'Duece (Nov 20, 2010)

Polar Bear said:


> Just my .13 cents. As a an instructor I reccomend to students....DO NOT MESS WITH THE TRIGGER IN YOUR CCDW PISTOL. If you ever have to use it and kill or shoot someone, your ass is in a sling. A lawyer will tear you apart.



Massad Ayoob had a decent write up about modifying your trigger in your carry piece.  Yes, it can be a DA's good luck charm in getting you indicted on manslaughter or even murder.

Don't mess with your trigger. "Hair trigger" is what the jury will hear.


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## Centermass (Nov 21, 2010)

Just for clarification, I don't believe Free or anyone else mentioned changing the connector or the trigger spring. Bill mentioned changing the RSA. The stock RSA is the problem with the Gen 4 and has no mechanical effect on the trigger.

PB is still spot on about trigger assy's and how attorneys will use anything and everything in their favor to win a $$$$ judgment, if not a criminal ruling in a case. Making them lighter (Or even heavier, such as a NY1 trigger spring replacement) just opens a can of worms in a court case. Legal thinking and mechanical thinking are not always the same.


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## AWP (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm looking at changing a few things (sights and minor grip stipling) on my Glock, but the trigger won't be one of them.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 21, 2010)

Interesting write up on the MP vs Glock, I shit canned my MP 9mm full size about 6 months after buying it. Accuracy sucked, I tested several loads and even had several other people shoot it. I traded it off for an XD (M) 9mm that was punching x rings at 25 yards with Winchester white box, the MP would not hold 9 ring consistently with Black Hills Match. Glock is more accurate than the MP IMHO but not incredibly more accurate. My factory G19 with Win white box is 9 ring at 25 yards, but the reliability of the G19 is unmatched by the XD (M) and the MP (not that the MP/XD had a shit load of failures but I did have a few) it’s just that I have never had a failure in a Glock other than ammo just not firing (bad primer).

As for the trigger I am no lawyer so I won’t debate the issue, I will just say my first order of business with a Glock is to change the trigger over to 3.5 lbs. Not that the factory trigger is not GTG, I prefer the lighter/smoother 3.5 lbs trigger. If I shoot someone intentionally I am very confident that all of the modifications that I make to my personal firearms can be justified. My personal thoughts on this is that unless it’s an unintentional shooting (meaning AD/ND) or a modification that is against factory recommendations/agency policy there is zero grounding for a DA to even bring the issue up. Now I understand that most would not take that risk, and that is totally in agreement (do what your pay grade can afford) but I think the information that Massad Ayoob puts out regarding firearm MOD’s and a lot of the hype of “the DA will get you for it” is very unsupported by documented case law.

If you are a LEO and your agency has a policy on modifications of agency firearms, you had better adhere to them. DA: you did not follow this policy of not modifying your duty weapon, what other policies or laws did you not follow. <--- More likely. The most likely would be that your agency does not support you in a “civil law suit” b/c you violated agency policy.

The issue is “justification” in use of force and not the “intent” of how you would use that force. The argument “ The shooter knew the purpose of the gun or ammo was more lethal than necessary based on the modification to his firearm so he didn't plan to STOP his assailant but actually intended to kill him.” But the reality is that deadly force is “deadly”, meaning once you have decided that you are justified in using “deadly force” you are in fact intending to “Kill”.

Again I am not a lawyer and I am not attempting to give legal advice, just remember not everything you read on the internet or hear “word of mouth” is correct…


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