# The Illegal Drug Discussion Thread



## Marauder06 (Mar 13, 2022)

Spinning this thread off of the West Point Drug Overdose one, with the intent that this thread becomes the clearinghouse for discussions related to illegal drugs.

In a question related to that thread, I understand fentanyl gives a better high and it's extremely concentrated and potent.  Why would you lace your drugs with fentanyl, instead of selling just the drug or just the fentanyl?  And if you were mixing the two, why wouldn't you tell you clients?  If not to warn them, then as a marketing gimmick?  "Hey bro, coke will get you high, but this fenty-coke is going to get you SUPER stoned."


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Spinning this thread off of the West Point Drug Overdose one, with the intent that this thread becomes the clearinghouse for discussions related to illegal drugs.
> 
> In a question related to that thread, I understand fentanyl gives a better high and it's extremely concentrated and potent.  Why would you lace your drugs with fentanyl, instead of selling just the drug or just the fentanyl?  And if you were mixing the two, why wouldn't you tell you clients?  If not to warn them, then as a marketing gimmick?  "Hey bro, coke will get you high, but this fenty-coke is going to get you SUPER stoned."



Awesome I am glad we are talking about this. 

Fentanyl is actually a rapid acting synthetic opiate that has been with increasing frequency being added to other narcotic drugs, such as heroin. Adding fentanyl to cocaine has the same idea of a Jaeger bomb, or a 4-loko. Mix an upper and a downer...  It also allows a strong drug to be further diluted with other additives. So less cocaine, more baking soda so to speak. 

Additives to marijuana are rare. Adding something that weighs almost nothing, doesn't add to the street value, as it is bought and sold via weight. Many of the big scary stories about someone "ODing" on fentanyl laced marijuana, later show that the marijuana itself had no fentanyl in it, calling into question the validity of the victim. People are not ashamed to smoke pot, they are ashamed of their opiate addictions. 

+(This doesn't apply to anyone here)+ I often see on Facebook and other social media,  folks talking about fentanyl and its associated problems. They routinely point out the laced marijuana, and the police officer contact OD's in the same posts. It is almost impossible for the latter to happen. The former, after initial hysteria subsides, is shown to likely not have happened either. Dozens of CT overdoses were falsely linked to fentanyl-laced marijuana, official says

Fear mongering like this leads to the prescription and use of these drugs to be stigmatized. For instance, I now routinely have patients attempt to refuse fentanyl for their anesthetics because "it will kill them".


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## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2022)

From the laced products I know of, including marijuana, fentanyl is cheap and only a small quantity is needed to "upgrade" a low quality product. Most of the people I know that use it, lace it themselves. But there is a market for laced weed.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 13, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Awesome I am glad we are talking about this.
> 
> Fentanyl is actually a rapid acting synthetic opiate that has been with increasing frequency being added to other narcotic drugs, such as heroin. Adding fentanyl to cocaine has the same idea of a Jaeger bomb, or a 4-loko. Mix an upper and a downer...  It also allows a strong drug to be further diluted with other additives. So less cocaine, more baking soda so to speak.
> 
> ...


Thank you for explaining that.  So with regard to the part I bolded above, do you think it's unlikely that the two people mentioned in the article about the West Point cadets "ODd while trying to give CPR?"

IIRC, when I was in the 160th we had painkiller lollipops in our flight vests when we were deployed, and I want to say they were fentanyl lollipops.  They were a controlled item.  Does that sound right?  I never had the need to take one and as a support guy I didn't spend a lot of time digging around in my flight vest so I'm not 100% on that.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Thank you for explaining that.  So with regard to the part I bolded above, do you think it's unlikely that the two people mentioned in the article about the West Point cadets "ODd while trying to give CPR?"
> 
> IIRC, when I was in the 160th we had painkiller lollipops in our flight vests when we were deployed, and I want to say they were fentanyl lollipops.  They were a controlled item.  Does that sound right?  I never had the need to take one and as a support guy I didn't spend a lot of time digging around in my flight vest so I'm not 100% on that.



I don’t have all the facts, but it seems extremely unlikely that that happened. CPR should be air blowing into the body, and transdermal absorption is terrible with Fentanyl.

Yes fentanyl lollipops are an effective POI pain reliever.


Here is a great position statement from the experts:
https://www.acmt.net/_Library/Positions/Fentanyl_PPE_Emergency_Responders_.pdf


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

So I honestly cannot find a single verified lab confirmed case of marijuana laced with Fentanyl in the US.. I’m not saying people do not do it. The single case of this that was supposedly confirmed was found to be contamination. There are tons of anecdotal stories of it happening, and people saying they had only smoked marijuana.  I am not saying it is impossible, just that when the drugs are actually tested it hasn't been proven. 

Finding two drugs in the system and then the patient saying “I only smoked pot” doesn’t really cut it. To me this has the same tone of people cautioning parents to be on the lookout for "edibles in the candy bin" at Halloween time.  

I am really interested in this, and probably spent more time looking today than I should have.


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## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2022)

From Pueblo

Marijuana being laced with illicit narcotics in Pueblo


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## Chopstick (Mar 13, 2022)

FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile.  As I had posted in the other thread,  it seems we have had it here in my area for some time.   We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana.  As I noted,  our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana.  Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...d-in-connection-with-fentanyl-laced-marijuana



> The person told police that they had smoked marijuana and had not taken any opioids. Officers tested the patient’s marijuana and found it contained fentanyl, prompting them to warn the public.




Superintendent, health experts warn after Fentanyl and THC found in vaping device at North Scott High School



> ELDRIDGE, Iowa (KWQC) - North Scott Superintendent Joe Stutting confirms a vaping device with THC and fentanyl was found at North Scott High School on Thursday.
> 
> In a statement sent out to parents, the school says, “vape devices across the country are being laced with fentanyl and local authorities have reported an increase of laced devices in the Quad Cities area.”
> 
> ...


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile.  As I had posted in the other thread,  it seems we have had it here in my area for some time.   We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana.  As I noted,  our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana.  Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great links.

From what I have read today, many of these field tests are later found to be contamination. Really interesting reading if you are interested but police field testing is basically garbage.

How a $2 Roadside Drug Test Sends Innocent People to Jail (Published 2016)

understanding this is an old citation) 

Also note in both those articles they were going to wait on lab results to confirm. The story ends there. Again, I’d just like to see a lab confirmed positive test.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> From Pueblo
> 
> Marijuana being laced with illicit narcotics in Pueblo



I also saw this link today. As I said above, I have not seen a lab verified positive test. Police saying it often has shown to be false.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Just to play devils advocate. You are an opiate user, you overdose and someone had to call the police. You tell them you only used marijuana. They use a kit that is notoriously awful to “test the substance”. It shows a faint positive, so boom, it is now laced with fentanyl. 

You get narcan and it works! Yay life! Marijuana possession isn’t even a misdemeanor while fentanyl possession is a felony? What are you copping to?


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## Chopstick (Mar 13, 2022)

In the cases in Washington County,  I can attest that the autopsy reports listed fentanyl and marijuana as being present in at least 2 of the victims.  Regardless of the method they got there, together or separate, those substances were present and listed as contributing to cause of death.  Dead is dead.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> In the cases in Washington County,  I can attest that the autopsy reports listed fentanyl and marijuana as being present in at least 2 of the victims.  Regardless of the method they got there, together or separate, those substances were present and listed as contributing to cause of death.  Dead is dead.



There I agree with you. Fentanyl is a gnarly drug. I give it almost every day, and I can tell you, at the right dose it will stop you from breathing, for a while. Two drugs on an autopsy do not tell the whole story though. Polypharmacy is a large issue, and many of these drug abusers are using amphetamines, opiates, marijuana, and etoh.


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## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2022)

Here's a good one from Canada.    Marijuana laced with heroin is pretty common and heroin cut with fentanyl is becoming more common.    MANDEL: Were teens poisoned with fentanyl-laced pot?


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## Grunt (Mar 13, 2022)

I know a lot of marijuana users that stick with marijuana only. However, those that use meth, coke, opiates, etc., tend to use any and everything they can get their hands on. Addiction - especially drugs - is a killer that many don't understand.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 13, 2022)

Fentanyl is, I would suggest but I haven't seen any reporting on it, to make the supplies (regardless of quality) go further since it's more time consuming to make heroin or cocaine so why not pad it out with something that gives another high that is cheaper and easier to manufacture (which is generally an order from China).



TLDR20 said:


> Just to play devils advocate. You are an opiate user, you overdose and someone had to call the police. You tell them you only used marijuana. They use a kit that is notoriously awful to “test the substance”. It shows a faint positive, so boom, it is now laced with fentanyl.
> 
> You get narcan and it works! Yay life! Marijuana possession isn’t even a misdemeanor while fentanyl possession is a felony? What are you copping to?


NIK? I don't think we even use those anymore or least I haven't seen any around. We've got a (I think it's called) a spectrum analyser, fires a laser and tells you what it is. Pretty cool kit. Police are very jealous of us, which is nice.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 13, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile.  As I had posted in the other thread,  it seems we have had it here in my area for some time.   We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana.  As I noted,  our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana.  Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should we fear fentanyl-laced marijuana? - The Boston Globe

The link above is directly related to the first link in your post


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## Chopstick (Mar 15, 2022)

I just recently started watching "To Catch A Smuggler" on National Geographic.  It is a real eye opener for me.  The program touches on many types of smuggling (antiquities, knock off goods, human trafficking) but by far the focus is illicit drugs.  The methods used and sheer volume of the drugs being smuggled is really quite disturbing.  I also can't comprehend that people will take things that most likely have been brought into the country through someone's alimentary tract.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 16, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> I just recently started watching "To Catch A Smuggler" on National Geographic.  It is a real eye opener for me.  The program touches on many types of smuggling (antiquities, knock off goods, human trafficking) but by far the focus is illicit drugs.  The methods used and sheer volume of the drugs being smuggled is really quite disturbing.  I also can't comprehend that people will take things that most likely have been brought into the country through someone's alimentary tract.



From experience, if you can think of it (concealment wise) someone has tried it. Obviously I don't condone them doing it but sometimes you have to nod and acknowledge it was a bloody good concealment.


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## Dimethylamine (Apr 12, 2022)

So a week ago, the House approved for federal decriminalization of cannabis, and now we wait for it to go through the Senate.  From reading, they tried to do this in 2020, but the Senate ignored it, so that might be the same case now.  If this does go through, I'd imagine the military will be slow to even consider it.  The military isn't known for being fast at being socially progressive.

Do you think the military will one day allow it?  Will it be harmful to the ranks?  How will commanders deal with it?

I'm imagining a scenario where it is legal in the ranks, that commanders will have to have very tough policies from the get go to set a strong precedence.  IE, smoking areas will be even more strict than garrison/motorpool rules, no consumption 24 hours from live fire, 1 cigarette limit, etc.  Almost like alcohol but more strict.  I predict a drop in alcoholism, but impaired driving under alcohol dropping, but under marijuana would increase.  We saw an increase in impaired driving when cannabis was legalized here, but that was a short spike that eventually hit equilibrium after a few months.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Do you think the military will one day allow it?



The military will allow anything its civilian political bosses order it to allow. Commanders may balk and bitch about it at first—like many of them did over gays in the military or women in the infantry, etc—but ultimately they’ll have to toe the line.

If it’s going to happen, I don’t think it’ll happen soon. Maybe 5 years at the earliest, probably more like 10. But all contingent upon politics.

Will it be harmful in the ranks? I don’t see legalized pot causing anywhere near as many problems in the military as alcohol does. And I doubt there’d be too many people who’d be stupid enough to risk getting stoned before a combat patrol. I can’t imagine being stoned during a firefight.

I knew some teammates in VN who smoked pot. But they kept it discreet, only did it during low risk hours. The only reason I know is because the few guys that did it let us know where they kept it—right thigh pocket—so if they got hit we could remove it prior to medevac so they wouldn’t get charged with a crime along with a Purple Heart.


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## AWP (Apr 12, 2022)

The Army has formed a team to implement the new policy using the same soldiers who crafted the current PT test events and guidance. They will be advised by retired members from the UCP selection team. Army leadership looks forward to a smooth transition once civilian guidance is issued.


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## Dimethylamine (Apr 12, 2022)

AWP said:


> The Army has formed a team to implement the new policy using the same soldiers who crafted the current PT test events and guidance. They will be advised by retired members from the UCP selection team. Army leadership looks forward to a smooth transition once civilian guidance is issued.


All I read was UCP team.  That's a no for me, dawg.



Gunz said:


> The military will allow anything its civilian political bosses order it to allow. Commanders may balk and bitch about it at first—like many of them did over gays in the military or women in the infantry, etc—but ultimately they’ll have to toe the line.
> 
> If it’s going to happen, I don’t think it’ll happen soon. Maybe 5 years at the earliest, probably more like 10. But all contingent upon politics.
> 
> ...



In my experience (albeit, a whopping 4 years), yes I think commanders will bitch and moan about it but will adapt, because all the junior company commanders are more risk adverse because they're just trying to stay afloat.

That being said, I'd rather deal with a stoned soldier than a drunk soldier.  I'd lose my crap if people smoked during high stress environments, but it's the military, it'll happen.  I've seen a good couple of instances where people would smuggle booze out during an FTX.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Apr 12, 2022)

Troops will always tip toe on the edge of chaos...rather it be beer or weed if it becomes legal.  Legal drugs should be tolerated and not used as excuses the first time someone messes up.

Higher ups use alcohol now to blame individuals and not further investigate into finding toxic climates or bad leadership.  I Assume marijuana Will be the same.  

"So and so did xxx because they suck!"

How about "so and so did xxx because you suck as a leader!"

I had a kid try to OD on cough syrup monthes after he left my team.  I had it all worked out for him to go to ABN school and he was a rockstar.  He got on another team, he bad leadership And it all went downhill.  All the leaders played The blame game but never identified themselves as the problem.

My miss cleo palm reading.....Marijuana usage wont change anything.  The military has way bigger issues then what troops do after work...


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## RackMaster (Apr 12, 2022)

They will probably use the Canadian policy as reference. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department...ies/9004/9004-1-use-cannabis-caf-members.html


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## TLDR20 (Apr 12, 2022)

I would rather folks in the military smoke pot than drink. 

I would rather lots of people smoke pot rather than drink.


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## Grunt (Apr 12, 2022)

I worked a lot of murders where alcohol played a major role in the crime.

I worked "no" murders where the smoking of pot played a role in the crime.

Just food for thought....


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## Intel Nerd (Apr 13, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> That being said, I'd rather deal with a stoned soldier than a drunk soldier.  I'd lose my crap if people smoked during high stress environments, but it's the military, it'll happen.  I've seen a good couple of instances where people would smuggle booze out during an FTX.



SOCOM exercise = bar on site. I had a field grade provide the great gift of delicious scotch on one trip.



RackMaster said:


> They will probably use the Canadian policy as reference.
> 
> DAOD 9004-1, Use of Cannabis by CAF Members - Canada.ca



This would be great ammo for a White Paper... *hmmm*



Grunt said:


> I worked a lot of murders where alcohol played a major role in the crime.
> 
> I worked "no" murders where the smoking of pot played a role in the crime.
> 
> Just food for thought....









SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK.


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## Gunz (Apr 13, 2022)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Troops will always tip toe on the edge of chaos...



I've been to the Edge of Chaos. It's called Naha, Okinawa.


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## Topkick (Oct 6, 2022)

I guess if you are going to legalize a substance then this should be a given.

Biden pardoning all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession


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## Cookie_ (Oct 6, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I guess if you are going to legalize a substance then this should be a given.
> 
> Biden pardoning all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession



I was just about to come share this.

Honestly, I'm surprised he's doing this, it seemed like something old Joe would keep fighting against. I was expecting we'd have to wait for a younger dem or a pro-weed Republican to be elected.

It's not full legalization yet, but if they change the scheduling that'll be a major step in that direction.


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## Topkick (Oct 6, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I was just about to come share this.
> 
> Honestly, I'm surprised he's doing this, it seemed like something old Joe would keep fighting against. I was expecting we'd have to wait for a younger dem or a pro-weed Republican to be elected.
> 
> It's not full legalization yet, but if they change the scheduling that'll be a major step in that direction.


I'm sure some conservative Governors will push back because its still not legal in their states. I don't smoke the shit, never have, but I don't care if someone else does. I drink alcohol which in my opinion has caused more problems in the world. I think Marijuana should be legalized nationwide, putting an end to the nonsense. Everyone won't agree.


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## Cookie_ (Oct 6, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I'm sure some conservative Governors will push back because its still not legal in their states. I don't smoke the shit, never have, but I don't care if someone else does. I drink alcohol which in my opinion has caused more problems in the world. I think Marijuana should be legalized nationwide, putting an end to the nonsense. Everyone won't agree.



I'm pretty much the same with your idea that alcohol is (overall society wise) worse and that weed should be legal.

Your point about conservative govenors does make me wonder what will happen when weed is fully removed from the drug schedule, which would effectively make it federally legal.


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## Topkick (Oct 6, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I'm pretty much the same with your idea that alcohol is (overall society wise) worse and that weed should be legal.
> 
> Your point about conservative govenors does make me wonder what will happen when weed is fully removed from the drug schedule, which would effectively make it federally legal.


Conservatives running for state office need to rethink their position on the issue. I think nowadays its a non- issue for a lot of non- smokers, but its definitely an issue for the consumers.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 6, 2022)

Jesus, the Democrats are getting desperate.


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## Raptor (Oct 6, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Jesus, the Democrats are getting desperate.


I'm glad it happened, but are they just keeping decisions in their back pocket for midterms now? Is that gonna be the norm? Or maybe it has been and I'm just now becoming old enough to realize it.


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## Topkick (Oct 6, 2022)

Raptor said:


> I'm glad it happened, but are they just keeping decisions in their back pocket for midterms now? Is that gonna be the norm? Or maybe it has been and I'm just now becoming old enough to realize it.


I'm sure the timing is political, everything is, but Democrats have leaned this way for awhile and it was just a matter of time. No surprises here.

In my state, the conservative led government is fighting to keep it illegal when it seems most people are fine with legalization.

Most Ohioans want recreational marijuana legalized


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## TLDR20 (Oct 6, 2022)

It is about damn time.


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## AWP (Oct 6, 2022)

Goddamn...Joe thinks so little of his VP he's willing to destroy her legacy in CA.


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## Blizzard (Oct 6, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I guess if you are going to legalize a substance then this should be a given.
> 
> Biden pardoning all prior federal offenses of simple marijuana possession


If you're in prison on federal drug charges, it's highly unlikely you're there as a result of simple marijuana possession unless you've had a couple previous convictions. This pandering election-cycle move should impact tens of people.


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## Topkick (Oct 6, 2022)

6500 people were convicted at the federal level between 1992-2022. So, yeah, very little impact in that regard. The article also conveyed that Biden was more hoping to influence the way the states dealt with it.

Biden Pardons Thousands Convicted of Marijuana Possession Under Federal Law


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## Cookie_ (Oct 7, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> If you're in prison on federal drug charges, it's highly unlikely you're there as a result of simple marijuana possession unless you've had a couple previous convictions. This pandering election-cycle move should impact tens of people.



I've currently got 3 inmates on my work detail that are in for possession.

They're all 20ish year old native kids who got picked up on the rez. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for the majority of convictions that will be pardoned.


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## RackMaster (Oct 7, 2022)

Using the Trudeau playbook.  Weed was the main reason he was elected the first time and stayed for the Woke Olympics.


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## Intel Nerd (Oct 10, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I was just about to come share this.
> 
> Honestly, I'm surprised he's doing this, it seemed like something old Joe would keep fighting against. I was expecting we'd have to wait for a younger dem or a pro-weed Republican to be elected.
> 
> It's not full legalization yet, but if they change the scheduling that'll be a major step in that direction.



I'm not surprised. I think it was going to happen this term, but the timing makes sense. With the mid terms looming and the Dems likely to lose the House he's probably trying to mitigate that by making changes that most Americans want while taking the credit and Heismaning any culpability for his role in making it such a negative legal impact over the last three decades.


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