# Amos Reconsiders Renaming MARSOC After Raiders



## Ravage (Apr 4, 2014)

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/19/amos-reconsiders-renaming-marsoc-after-raiders.html







U.S. Marine special operators could soon be known as Raiders -- the name the Corps' original commando battalions went by during World War II.

During a recent Facebook town hall meeting, Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos said he was reconsidering a request from Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, to revive the Raider name for its elite units.

"We're looking into it," Amos said. "No decision has been made at this time."

The first Marine Raider Battalion, Amphibious Forces, Atlantic Fleet, Quantico, Va., was stood up in February 1942. The 1st Marine Raider Regiment was organized in March 1943.

Raiders were elite units trained to conduct amphibious light infantry raids and rubber boat landings, as well as operating behind enemy lines.

The distinctive Raider insignia features a white skull inside a red diamond centered on a blue field. Five white stars form a half circle around the skull.

Amos denied the first proposal from MARSOC in 2010 to name the Corps' special operations units after the Raiders. The commandant turned down the proposal because he believed a naming convention was unnecessary because "we're Marines first," Maj. Gen. David Berger, head of the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center, told Marine Corps Times at the time of the decision.

The Marine commandant did not explain why he is now reconsidering the decision he made four years ago.

Raider units fought on Guadalcanal and in other campaigns, but they were disbanded in January 1944. The anticipated need for small commando units did not materialize, and most Raider units ended up performing the same missions as regular line infantry units.

This is a stark contrast from MARSOC's beginning. The creation of the Marine Corps element to U.S. Special Operations Command was announced in November 2005, four years after the war on terrorism began.

Even as the pace of combat slows, the Pentagon continues to place a strong emphasis on growing the special operations community across all the services to perform counterterrorism and unconventional warfare missions.

MARSOC candidates are required to attend the Marine Special Operations Individual Course at the Marine Special Operations School. The seven-month course centers on the skills necessary to develop a Marine special operator to include direct action; close quarters battle; special reconnaissance; survival evasion resistance and escape; and infantry weapons and tactics.

The training occurs in four phases. Phase 1 is a 10-week basic skills course that incorporates individual fitness, such as swimming, running, rucking, hand-to-hand combat as well as patrolling, mission planning, fire support, land navigation, combat medic training, and SERE training.

Phase 2 is an 8-week course that focuses on the Marine Special Ops Unit. Marines will master small-unit tactics, intelligence gathering, maritime navigation, small boat handling and field training exercises in urban/non-urban environments.

Phase 3 is a 5-week course where precision training starts to challenge the Marines further. Close Quarters Combat, marksmanship, shooting and moving through a target as a team is the focus of Phase 3.

Phase 4 is a 7-week course on Asymmetric Warfare, which teaches the Marine how to think like the enemy in order to disrupt their insurgencies, acts of terror, or guerrilla warfare.


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## Chopstick (Apr 4, 2014)

This article is slightly inaccurate.  The Commandant will first have to clear this name change with his wife, Bonnie Amos FLOTMC. (First Lady of the Marine Corps.)


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## AWP (Apr 4, 2014)

The history geek in me loves the idea. I know a well-respected member told me that an unofficial movement to do just that began after MARSOC was stood up. Now it seems to have progressed to an official request. Good on them. I'm curious to see how "Blue Falcon 1" will handle this.


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## DA SWO (Apr 4, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> The history geek in me loves the idea. I know a well-respected member told me that an unofficial movement to do just that began after MARSOC was stood up. Now it seems to have progressed to an official request. Good on them. I'm curious to see how "Blue Falcon 1" will handle this.


Is this accurate, or being done to "revive" the Raider nome de guerre?
IIRC SF had the Ranger lineage for awhile, not accurate, but done to preserve the 75th Lineage


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## AWP (Apr 4, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Is this accurate, or being done to "revive" the Raider nome de guerre?
> IIRC SF had the Ranger lineage for awhile, not accurate, but done to preserve the 75th Lineage


 
Probably some of both. The Army and AF stand up new units and assign them old lineages.


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## Teufel (Apr 4, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Is this accurate, or being done to "revive" the Raider nome de guerre?
> IIRC SF had the Ranger lineage for awhile, not accurate, but done to preserve the 75th Lineage



It's not an accurate lineage.  It's just being done to revive the name.  MARSOC was built on the back of Force Reconnaissance Marines (1st and 2nd Force to be specific) and Recon Marines trace their lineage back to the Raiders. The Raiders, however, actually keep a closer lineage and mission set to the amphibious raid companies on the Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU).  1st Raider Regiment was redesignated 4th Marine Regiment in 1944 and 1st-4th Raider Battalions became 1/4, 2/4 and 3/4.  The boat company for 1/4, Alpha Company Raiders, is really motivated about their lineage and to be fair they are the closest thing to a modern day Raider.  The Raiders were an elite infantry company that conduct amphibious raids on the grandfather of the zodiac rubber raiding craft.  Sounds like a MEU boat company to me.  Minus the elite.  Most boat companies are a cut above the other companies in their battalions so I'll buy that for a dollar.

 In reality Recon's lineage goes back to division and regimental scout and sniper companies in WWII.  There was a joint "observer group" formed in 1941 but it didn't last more than an operation or two.  This group split, the Marines formed an Amphibious Recon Company and the Army and Navy formed the "scouts and raiders" which eventually turned into Navy Combat Demolition Units (NCDU) then to Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs) which are the grand daddys of the SEALs.  Boom, history in your face. 

The Amphibious Recon Company went to work in the pacific doing amphibious reconnaissance in support of amphibious corps PACFLEET and later V Amphibious Corps, eventually growing to battalion size. Prior to Guadalcanal, LtCol William "Wild Bill" Whaling, the XO for 5th Marines, recommended to General Vandegrift to form a scout and sniper company which turned into a platoon at every regiment and a company at the division.  They disbanded most of these units and created an amphibious reconnaissance company at the division and placed scout snipers at the battalions and regiments.  Col Bruce Meyers was tasked with creating a unit, 1st Force Reconnaissance Company, to conduct pathfinder operations using specialized insertion means such as diving and parachuting right before the Korean War.  Both Division and Force Reconnaissance units were heavily engaged in Vietnam.  Recon units evolved and dissolved over the years (anyone remember regimental recon?  The Surveillance, Intelligence and Reconnaissance Group (SRIG)?)but eventually we ended up a battalion at division and a company at MEF on each coast.  When MARSOC came around we lost all but two platoons out of each Force Recon Company to create 1st and 2nd MSOB, and the Force Recon companies were stood up under their respective Recon Battalions.  

As you can see, both Recon and MARSOC Marines can claim lineage to the Amphibious Recon Company in WWII as well as the Scout and Sniper companies.  Raiders were tough, elite and paddled boats....and Recon/MARSOC Marines are tough, elite and paddle boats so in a way we can all trace our inspiration back to them.  That being said, Marine Reconnaissance was not created so that the Marine Corps could have a commando unit like the Raiders were.  We were created so the Marine Corps could have a highly trained reconnaissance unit capable of using specialized insertion means.  You could make an argument that MARSOC was created so that the Marines could provide SOCOM with a commando unit.  Then again, no other organization is named after their grandfather organization.  The Jedburghs became SF, the UDT became the SEALs, the Air Rescue Service became the PJs, and the Rangers....well the Rangers have always been the Rangers.  

It would be cool to see the Raider name get revived but personally I don't think the Marine Corps will go for it.  The Marine Corps hates having "special" Marines which is exactly why they disbanded the Raiders in the first place.  It may be semantics but there is a reason that each Marine *Special Operations* Battalion is populated with *Critical Skills Operators* and not *Marine Special Operators*.  It's silly and petty but hey that's the Marine Corps.


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## Teufel (Apr 4, 2014)

Ravage said:


> During a recent Facebook town hall meeting, Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos said he was reconsidering a request from Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, to revive the Raider name for its elite units.
> .



What the hell is a Facebook town hall meeting?  What the hell is happening to my Marine Corps where we are meeting on facebook and not at bars or on the corpses of our enemies?


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 4, 2014)

Teufel said:


> What the hell is a Facebook town hall meeting?  What the hell is happening to my Marine Corps where we are meeting on facebook and not at bars or on the corpses of our enemies?


@Teufel, follow your question to the end.  Marines going to bars eventually have to piss, Marines who have to piss could end up standing on or near the corpses of our enemies, and we all know that the good General is doing all he can to keep Marines who have to piss away from the corpses of our enemies...it might end up on Facebook  :wall:


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