# Knee Health and Rucking



## Kells (Sep 20, 2017)

Hey Guys, I went on a ruck last week and kinda banged up my right knee a little. I did 6 miles, boots on, mainly asphalt, with 45 pounds. I was doing a shuffle, not so much a run but not a walk either. It started off a dull annoyance and after I stopped the ruck got painful. Now it's fine unless I run. Anyways I stayed off it for a week and then tried running but after a quarter mile I could feel I wasn't ready for that type of activity again yet. Does anyone else have a similar experience with knee inflammation on rucks? Also I've learned now that you never run with a ruck unless you are in a do-or-die situation as it is likely to cause an issue (learning the hard way :). I'm still going to swim and do whatever lifting / cal that I can while icing and stretching everyday to recover. Just anxious to get back to running and rucking CORRECTLY next time. Thanks!

-PK


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 20, 2017)

9


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## Kells (Sep 20, 2017)

Hey Red Flag! I've done a good amount of searching on it, more so than looking for information on a knee injury I was looking for anyone's experiences on this site with ruck related knee injuries and how they deal or dealt with said issue. I just had dull pain to the left side of my right knee, below my it band. Just was curious to see if anyone was in the same boat as me, not looking for a diagnosis.


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## Teufel (Sep 21, 2017)

Rucking, like many things we do in the military, is terrible for your body. The end.


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## Dienekes (Sep 21, 2017)

Same exact problem as the OP that happened about a week ago. Literally same knee and spot so I'd also deeply appreciate some guidance such as preventive maintenance, hip swing form, etc. Until then, I'm looking for what Kelly Starrett may suggest.


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## x SF med (Sep 23, 2017)

What @Teufel said.

Wait till you've got a few thousand ruck miles under your belt, you'll find out what it really does to knees, hips, backs and feet.


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## Dienekes (Sep 27, 2017)

Thought this might help


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 27, 2017)

[QUO


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## Kells (Sep 28, 2017)

Yea this is great!


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## Devildoc (Sep 28, 2017)

You know, I have done GoRuck events before, with my workout group.  I will ruck for fitness (35#-45#, depending, but never more than 45#).  The guys in my group who do this will weigh their packs down with heavy weight and I tell them all they are doing is inviting injury.  Man, how I do NOT miss the days of full rucks, boots and utes, 782 gear, and rifle.

Rucking far will hurt you, rucking heavy will hurt you, rucking fast will hurt you.  If you start hurting back off in all three.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> The guys in my group who do this will weigh their packs down with heavy weight



Wow.  That that was a pretty common “no no” by now.


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## Devildoc (Sep 28, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wow.  That that was a pretty common “no no” by now.



I know, right?  But these 20-somethings, they think their bodies will last forever.  I tell them I am on the smiling side of 50 and because of rucking heavy weight for so many years (when I didn't have a choice) I sound like a bowl of rice krispies and have an ortho on retainer.  They don't care; they think it's cool; the more weight, the better.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> They don't care; they think it's cool; the more weight, the better



More power to them, just distribute the weight with real stuff so you don’t have 50 pounds hanging off of your ass.


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## leonrazurado (Nov 19, 2017)

Pat K. said:


> Hey Red Flag! I've done a good amount of searching on it, more so than looking for information on a knee injury I was looking for anyone's experiences on this site with ruck related knee injuries and how they deal or dealt with said issue. I just had dull pain to the left side of my right knee, below my it band. Just was curious to see if anyone was in the same boat as me, not looking for a diagnosis.


I just injured my knee in BJJ. Same spot as you, left side of right knee. Next day, I was in pain and my knee was so stiff I could barely bend I. I went to the Dr. and they said it was an MCL tear. Now just playing the waiting game to see if gets better or not.


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## DocIllinois (Nov 19, 2017)

leonrazurado said:


> I just injured my knee in BJJ. Same spot as you, left side of right knee. Next day, I was in pain and my knee was so stiff I could barely bend I. I went to the Dr. and they said it was an MCL tear. Now just playing the waiting game to see if gets better or not.



Depending on the extent of the tear it will feel better in time and may work mostly close to what was normal.  If the managing doc doesn't recommend physical therapy while it heals, though, I'd highly recommend going to a good PT place on your own if your state/ insurance doesn't bizarrely require a PCP referral.

Improper joint healing means future issues.


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## doug in japan (May 9, 2018)

hi, i have a question relating to walking with progressively heavier bodyweights and building up the knees. i am not ex military but i can't find your knowledge on other websites. i started doing this over a year ago, a few times a week off and on but since the winter (we have 3 months of snow here, so not good for wearing more than 10 kg / 24lb) i've been walking usually 3 miles on level asphalt with now 20 kg or so (44lb) usually 3, occasionally 4 times a week. however my knees are telling me to back off, particularly 4 times last week and i have no idea how to progress beyond this. i am wearing primarily a weight vest. i have an 80 lb vest on order, which is my ultimate goal, plus maybe some light dumbells or kettlebells. any civilized advice would be most welcome. thanks and thanks for those of you who are in the armed forces making people like me safe. having lived in Japan for quite a long time i sometimes reflect on the future possible danger emanating from the Far East but that belongs in another thread of course.


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## compforce (May 9, 2018)

doug in japan said:


> however my knees are telling me to back off,



Then back off.  I can tell you for a fact that your knees will stop telling you to back off and will do it for you.  Once they do, you're done for months and they will not come back to where they were.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 9, 2018)

doug in japan said:


> hi, i have a question relating to walking with progressively heavier bodyweights and building up the knees. i am not ex military but i can't find your knowledge on other websites. i started doing this over a year ago, a few times a week off and on but since the winter (we have 3 months of snow here, so not good for wearing more than 10 kg / 24lb) i've been walking usually 3 miles on level asphalt with now 20 kg or so (44lb) usually 3, occasionally 4 times a week. however my knees are telling me to back off, particularly 4 times last week and i have no idea how to progress beyond this. i am wearing primarily a weight vest. i have an 80 lb vest on order, which is my ultimate goal, plus maybe some light dumbells or kettlebells. any civilized advice would be most welcome. thanks and thanks for those of you who are in the armed forces making people like me safe. having lived in Japan for quite a long time i sometimes reflect on the future possible danger emanating from the Far East but that belongs in another thread of course.



Doug:

Welcome to the site, before you post again you are expected to follow the first rule of ShadowSpear:  Post an Intro Thread.  Read thru the intros for an idea of what they should look like.  This needs to be your next post.


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## DozerB (May 9, 2018)

Pat K. said:


> Hey Guys, I went on a ruck last week and kinda banged up my right knee a little. I did 6 miles, boots on, mainly asphalt, with 45 pounds. I was doing a shuffle, not so much a run but not a walk either. It started off a dull annoyance and after I stopped the ruck got painful. Now it's fine unless I run. Anyways I stayed off it for a week and then tried running but after a quarter mile I could feel I wasn't ready for that type of activity again yet. Does anyone else have a similar experience with knee inflammation on rucks? Also I've learned now that you never run with a ruck unless you are in a do-or-die situation as it is likely to cause an issue (learning the hard way :). I'm still going to swim and do whatever lifting / cal that I can while icing and stretching everyday to recover. Just anxious to get back to running and rucking CORRECTLY next time. Thanks!
> 
> -PK



Yeah dude, rucking sucks.

The do-or-die ruck running sentiment sounds nice, but it's just not realistic. I only intended to ruck run during graded events at A&S/follow-on training, but I can't tell you how many times I ended up running with a way heavier ruck than intended simply because an instructor had to get us from point A to point B to stay on schedule and the last thing they cared about was "rucking being bad for your joints." 

Personal tips that helped me:

1) For damage control, read Kelly Starrett's Ready to Run; learn proper form to reduce impact on the lower back and knees. Focus on mid to forefoot impact, not rolling heel to toe. Increase leg turnover, don't try to "stride it out."

2) Google "couch stretch." Shoot for 2 minutes each side every day. This stretch alone was worth the price of the book and completely solved the pain under my kneecap.


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## 757 (May 9, 2018)

@DozerB That book looks like it will solve a lot of my arched lower back problems from playing soccer for years. Thanks for the info


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## Border (May 9, 2018)

Most important thing in the entire world is stretching and a proper warm up, none one ever believes it. Nor did i.. but now that i am the old age of 24 i have realized i need to incorporate it into my daily life. Look up some "yoga" for male athletes and just grab some stretches out of one of those guides that you can do daily.

You will have issues with rucking down the road like our veteran members have pointed out, but none of us young guys just getting into rucking should have many problems so early.

I have a 70lb ruck, progressively built my way up from 35, i warm up before each exercise and usually do some nice stretching about 10 minutes into whatever i am doing. 

Knee sleeves can help but i'm not sure if the military will let us use them, i only wore them before during Crossfit and they were a saving grace. Also if you have a revolving stair master you should hit that up some days as well, that is the number one biggest thing that has improved my rucking.

We are not in training yet, so if you start to have pain somewhere.. don't be a tough guy an push through it. You will only slow down your training because it will increase the time you need to recover.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 9, 2018)

Border said:


> I have a 70lb ruck


Why?


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## Border (May 9, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why?



Valid question, i am mostly just using it to keep my legs built and strong. Only thing i'm doing is hitting the stair-master with that weight, virtually 0 impact and i can incorporate it into some nice sets of push ups/planks in-between my intervals.


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## Kells (Jun 4, 2018)

Hey guys, quick update. Turns out it was a stress fracture on my right femur. Was told not to run or do any impact training on lower body for two months. I stayed off it for 3 months and have come back with no problems, I also do not run with weight anymore haha. Yoga and stretching / recovery has been huge in helping me recover and stay healthy.


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## Jnorton017 (Oct 17, 2018)

What would you guys suggest to someone completely green to rucking looking for where to start. I'm Focused on the PAST right now but after I can constantly hit my goal numbers to start my first PAST which I think i can do within this next month I want to start to switch my workouts up geared towards activities in the tacp schoolhouse and training after.  I saw good info about the stair treadmills which I'll incorporate, but I also use the mountain tactical institute site for workouts that I read about in another post on here but they talk about rucking with weight right away. Looking for the best way to ease into this. Made a similar mistake as others have posted on here where i went right into weighted rucking with a couple kids who most were current military the other few aspiring, such as myself, and basically  did a 5 mile "ruck" which was my first time even running with boots let along 40 lb ruck at a 9:30 mile pace and had some pretty bad knee aggravation for the following months.


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## AWP (Oct 17, 2018)

Jnorton017 said:


> What would you guys suggest to someone completely green to rucking looking for where to start. I'm Focused on the PAST right now but after I can constantly hit my goal numbers to start my first PAST which I think i can do within this next month I want to start to switch my workouts up geared towards activities in the tacp schoolhouse and training after.  I saw good info about the stair treadmills which I'll incorporate, but I also use the mountain tactical institute site for workouts that I read about in another post on here but they talk about rucking with weight right away. Looking for the best way to ease into this. Made a similar mistake as others have posted on here where i went right into weighted rucking with a couple kids who most were current military the other few aspiring, such as myself, and basically  did a 5 mile "ruck" which was my first time even running with boots let along 40 lb ruck at a 9:30 mile pace and had some pretty bad knee aggravation for the following months.



Did you Google ruck march training plans? I'm looking at something like 6-8 How To guides in the first 10 results.


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## Jnorton017 (Oct 17, 2018)

AWP said:


> Did you Google ruck march training plans? I'm looking at something like 6-8 How To guides in the first 10 results.



I have, just wanted to see if I heard some different suggestions from people who've done it and what they thought was helpful, or what they would have done different. Some of the articles were from sources like military.com, and GoRuck which were helpful but I wasn't sure how reliable info from mens journal and others stacked up.


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## MikeDelta (Oct 17, 2018)

@Pat K. 

After exercise, R.I.C.E. RICE (medicine) - Wikipedia

Ice works wonders,  but no more than 20 minutes and never put an ice pack directly on your skin without a rag or something between it.

It may be something simple as an inflammed synovial bursa sack. However, if you have compromised your cruciate ligament/MCL or have torn your ACL you could be on your way to the operating table. So, if the  aforementioned first aid measures do not work, see your doctor. And as some of the SOF memebers such as @Teufel and @x SF med alluded to; if you continue on this path you’re going to be required to push now and pay later. For this reason I never go over 45# anymore, never run, but always make time for stretching and ice after a ruck or even after a leg workout. Today,  I’m closer to 50 than I am 30 and never did the things that I’m suggesting, and as a result I have a cadaver’s tendon in one knee that replaced my ACL. So, take care of yourself now, because in the future you may not have the luxury and time to take care of yourself. Any military training, selection or deployment is going to find any weakness that your body and/or mind has and sometimes that is what makes you a No-Go. 

With that, keep being focused, train hard, but train smart and good luck!


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## Jnorton017 (Oct 17, 2018)

MikeDelta said:


> @Pat K.
> 
> After exercise, R.I.C.E. RICE (medicine) - Wikipedia
> 
> ...


Appreciate it.


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## MikeDelta (Oct 17, 2018)

Jnorton017 said:


> Appreciate it.



You’re welcome. You’ll find tons of information regarding this subject here on Shadow Spear and sites like military.com


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## AWP (Oct 17, 2018)

Jnorton017 said:


> I have, just wanted to see if I heard some different suggestions from people who've done it and what they thought was helpful, or what they would have done different. Some of the articles were from sources like military.com, and GoRuck which were helpful but I wasn't sure how reliable info from mens journal and others stacked up.



Good. I'll use this to launch into some professional development.

You did your research (which, frankly, sets you apart from others here), but here's a better way to handle this:

"I've checked out GoRuck and Military.com's plans. Are these valid? What would you guys suggest to someone completely green to rucking looking for where to start?" Then include links so we know what you're describing above. 

A better option would be to search here first because we have covered this.

The above demonstrates that you've put in the work and your questions are targeted rather than broad, one-over-the-world, "gimme the answers"...laziness. Again, we see this often and that's our perception. Think of it like a job interview: you know a little about the company and you ask questions to show you're serious about the job. I'm in my 40's, trust me or not but the above will serve you well in life.

Good luck.


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## Jnorton017 (Oct 18, 2018)

Understood, thanks.


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## Gunpowder (Oct 18, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> I know, right?  But these 20-somethings, they think their bodies will last forever.  I tell them I am on the smiling side of 50 and because of rucking heavy weight for so many years (when I didn't have a choice) I sound like a bowl of rice krispies and have an ortho on retainer.  They don't care; they think it's cool; the more weight, the better.



Ditto with Devildoc...as I'm on the other side of 60 and I'm sitting here with two bad knees, back, cervical and a shoulder about to be MRI'd in a few weeks...65 lb rucks used to be a norm...take care of yourselves youngins'....we are not invincible!


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## Polar Bear (Oct 19, 2018)

“Rucking and Knee Health” a comedy


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## MikeDelta (Oct 19, 2018)

Polar Bear said:


> “Rucking and Knee Health” a comedy



Maybe there is a pitch for a sitcom somewhere here?   What if there is man and his rucksack and he’s concerned about knee health? Eh eh!?


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