# Looking for a subcompact pistol



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 28, 2020)

I know that I am walking into a potential minefield here, but here goes.  

I’m seeking a S/C that I can easily slip into a front pocket or more likely, tuck into a pocket of one of the assorted shoulder bags I carry every day.   

I’ve eliminated.380 as I have just not had a lot of success shooting that caliber.  

After significant research I’ve narrowed my choices down to 3:

Smith & Wesson M2.0 Shield

Sig Sauer P365.

Walther PPS M2

Thanks for anything you can share.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2020)

Bump for updated info


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 29, 2020)

I've heard really good things about the Shield in 9mm, although I've never owned one myself.  Out of all the ones you listed (and I'm pretty unfamiliar with all of them, frankly), the Shield is the one I'd go with.

M&P Shield M2.0 | Smith & Wesson


----------



## Gunz (Dec 29, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I've heard really good things about the Shield in 9mm, although I've never owned one myself.  Out of all the ones you listed (and I'm pretty unfamiliar with all of them, frankly), the Shield is the one I'd go with.
> 
> M&P Shield M2.0 | Smith & Wesson



I agree.

My youngest son has the M&P Shield 9mm and is very happy with it’s performance and concealability...in fact I just shot it two days ago and was impressed. Good carry gun and the price is right, about $450.

Don Hume makes a number of configurations of leather holsters for it, very affordable...My kid is toned up, wears kinda tight shirts and carries his in a right side OWB leather belt holster and doesn't print. I think his holster cost less than $30 and it's a perfect fit.

S&W M&P Shield Holster Options


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 29, 2020)

@Ooh-Rah I’m somewhat in the same boat as you. For what it’s worth, a lot of shooters seem to love the P365, and especially the 365XL because it’s large enough to accommodate a full grip while also being subcompact.  Plus the sight plate is removable so you can easily mount an optic.  I’ll probably get one as soon as my LGS has one in stock.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2020)

I scoured the many local gun shops this morning for a 365; to include Cabela’s.  Nothing. For months.  

Heading home I stopped by Fleet Farm - Bingo!

Sold me their display model...it’s been in the case since last evening!  LOL

Doing the paperwork now.


----------



## Brill (Dec 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I scoured the many local gun shops this morning for a 365; to include Cabela’s.  Nothing. For months.
> 
> Heading home I stopped by Fleet Farm - Bingo!
> 
> ...



If it’s not at Fleet Farm, you don’t need it.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 29, 2020)




----------



## Gunz (Dec 29, 2020)

Gun porn is a good thing.


----------



## Board and Seize (Dec 29, 2020)

I've got an M&P 9c, from before the M2s came out.  Great little pistol, kicks like a mule, fits into a pocket no problem (assuming you aren't wearing skinny jeans...).


----------



## policemedic (Dec 29, 2020)

Of all the models you mentioned, I’d have gone with the Sig. 

For reference only, I’ve carried either a Glock 43 or 48 as a BUG for...well, a long time.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Of all the models you mentioned, I’d have gone with the Sig.


It’s exactly what I had hoped for. I’ll upload pics in a bit.  

Even got some range time in today, this pistol will be a perfect addition to my carry requirements.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2020)

Gunz said:


> Don Hume makes a number of configurations of leather holsters for it


I got a great deal from someone on an IWB Milt Sparks.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)




----------



## Board and Seize (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 37802


Those are some very cool-looking coasters!

Gun and coins are good too ;p


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> Those are some very cool-looking coasters!


Thank you, I’ve had them “forever.” At this point I could not begin to tell you where I got them. If I had to guess, I would say the now-defunct Pier One.


----------



## Board and Seize (Dec 30, 2020)

So in the orangy circles, we have individual letters in hiragana.  Then under those, still in the upper partition, are numbers.  Then below the partition some kanji-heavy cursive.  The images look like _mon_ (Japanese family crest, more or less) to me.

I'll take a crack at cracking the cursive code later.  I hope the text is all cool and like family words or ancient proverbs.  It'd be awesome for the text to be as cool as these things look.

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

What I’m hoping for!


Board and Seize said:


> I hope the text is all cool and like family words or ancient proverbs. It'd be awesome for the text to be as cool as these things look.



What I’m expecting....


----------



## Gunz (Dec 30, 2020)

I mean this is gun porn and we have two Marines talking about coasters from Pier One?     Jesus.


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 37802


Ugh I have to get one!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Ugh I have to get one!


If you do, a few things to watch out for.

Be sure you get one made after 2019.

There is a XL version that is slightly larger, that is not what I was looking for.

There is another version that does not have sites and has made more for strictly pocket carry so it does not snag. No interest in that for me either.

The one I got is just a straight up P365.

The first two can usually be found in your local gun store, the standard 365 is a bit of a hunt.

As I said earlier in this thread, I called a number of gun stores and none of them would even take an order for me. They are all months behind in back orders. I pretty much lucked into the one I found at Fleet farm.

If you want one, don’t hesitate if you have the opportunity.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 30, 2020)

Gunz said:


> I mean this is gun porn and we have two Marines talking about coasters from Pier One?     Jesus.


No worries...they are simply balancing the yin portion of the yin/yang....


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 11, 2021)

@Ooh-Rah its been two weeks now!  How does it conceal and how well does it shoot?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 12, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> @Ooh-Rah its been two weeks now!  How does it conceal and how well does it shoot?




I picked up a Milt Sparks holster for it from someone on another forum. Because it’s so small, I can/do wear it IWB with a simple untucked t-shirt and have no “printing” issues unless I’m looking for it.

Shoots fantastic- not an issue. Ran 2 boxes of MagTech thru it and then a box of Hornady Critical Defense- alternating magazines-

Initial grouping at 20’ was super tight. It got spread out a bit as i shot, but I’ll blame that on user error and lack of practice than on the gun.

It’s all I’ve carried since I got it; I could not be happier.

Last night I wore my CZ75 Compact and was shocked at how heavy it felt!


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 14, 2021)

@Ooh-Rah 365XL just came into my local Cabelas today!  Can’t wait to pick it up. 

Sig should pay you a commission


----------



## frostyred (Jan 15, 2021)

Can someone put up a prayer that another reasonably priced PPS appears near me?
I missed being the person to grab it by THIIIIIIS much.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 15, 2021)

🙏


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 15, 2021)

I love the SIG.  I think the S&W is under a recall order?

@frostyred I hope you get what you are looking for!


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 16, 2021)

What do ya'll have to say about the P365? I have been salivating over this pistol for a while now but many talking heads around me are pushing glock propaganda into my skull.

edit: just read your response to that question, Ooh-rah


----------



## policemedic (Jan 16, 2021)

I had the opportunity to play with it at the 2018(?) SHOT Show.  @racing_kitty was kind enough to play paparazzi for me and took this photo.  It is a very small pistol.



My thoughts are that it is a classic SIG.  It’s reliable and well built.  I was able to shoot one after the show and found it to have a good trigger and to be accurate.

Pros for the SIG...form factor, quality, reliability, higher magazine capacity than the Glock 43, and it’s a SIG.
Cons, at least in my view...It’s a SIG.  Working on them requires several punches, a hammer, and other tools.  It’s a little thick for my application.

The Glock is a fine gun, but it has a lower capacity.  I do carry a 43, but almost never as a primary gun.  Since I always have a full-size pistol and extra mags, I don’t worry about the 6+1 capacity.  Your mileage may vary, and you should pick the gun that feels good to you, and that you can shoot best.  As an aside, the Glock only requires one punch for armorer work and a pen will do in a pinch.  It’s much easier to work on, if that matters to you.


----------



## Arf (Jan 16, 2021)

It’s not subcompact but NSW carries 9mm Glock 19s and I’m pretty satisfied with carrying that concealed.

Edit:I anticipate questioning, and yes, Sigs are a thing of the past for NSW.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 16, 2021)

Glock 19 is what my friends are yelling at me to get but tbh it doesn't fit my hand so well and the grip reduction costs money I don't have. 

Thanks for the rundown, policemedic. My interest in the sig is that I can have a comfortable concealed carry that could theoretically also sit on the hip with a 15 round mag in it.  I'm quite broke at the moment due to COVID job losses and need a very... flexible arsenal that I can spread thin, so to speak. 

It's interesting that you mention the workability of the firearm. It's something that I myself don't dabble in- yet- but my friend made the comment that Glock 19s are so ubiquitous that finding parts and people who can fix them are relatively easy to come by. For a "prep" scenario this is a damn wise consideration. 

Would an AK-47/Glock combo be the most reliable firearm pairing? I'm speaking purely as a SHTF situation.


----------



## Arf (Jan 17, 2021)

The safety/ lack of safety on the Glock 19 is what does it for me. I honestly hate the look of them, but the safety on the trigger pull makes so much sense and I feel comfortable that it is not going to accidentally Fire.

Also, we use them in a maritime environment, so that is a pretty big plus from me there as far as reliability and upkeep. If you work on the water you understand that salt water destroys everything!


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 18, 2021)

You can’t really go wrong with the G19. They’ll are ubiquitous within SOCOM and many parts of the USG right now.  Off of the top of my head, I can only think of one unit who doesn’t use them.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 18, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> You can’t really go wrong with the G19. They’ll are ubiquitous within SOCOM and many parts of the USG right now.  Off of the top of my head, I can only think of one unit who doesn’t use them.



Fuck, okay. So that means I need to hire a gunsmith for a grip reduction. I have "piano hands", as one ex noted. 

Those are all solid reasons to get a G19. Something I need to mention, though, is that I am indoctrinated to Israeli carry- I know, I know, it's not good. What measures were all of you trained in to become confident that your weapon would not misfire? 

We get "common denominator" training in regards to carrying weapons and ammunition. Nowadays every soldier and cop has to have a chamber flag in their weapon, which I guess is spit out on charging the handle. That means absolutely no condition 1 or 2, on pain of court martial. Of course before they started this chamber flag nonsense me and the other Anglo volunteers would chamber a round whenever we were walking around on leave, but this was on our M-4s which of course have a safety.


----------



## policemedic (Jan 18, 2021)

The better question is who brainwashed the Israelis to make them think a Condition One or Two carry is unsafe?  Carrying a weapon without a round chambered just means you have an unloaded weapon, and makes no sense.  The only time I didn’t have a round chambered was when my shotgun or M4 was in the rack in the car.  As soon as I deployed it, a round was chambered.  That is pretty much standard throughout US law enforcement agencies.  I carry Glocks now due to a shift in agency policy, but for years I carried a .45 in Condition One and truth be told, I miss it.

Glocks are very safe.  If you have small hands, consider a Glock 48 instead of a 19.  It has a thinner grip, but 10+1 capacity.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 19, 2021)

policemedic said:


> The better question is who brainwashed the Israelis to make them think a Condition One or Two carry is unsafe?


Like I said, Israel uses lowest common denominator training in this regard due to safety issues. It is a conscripted army, and people tend to forget that. Israel doesn't have a warrior culture either- at least not like Anglo societies. I remember that many of them didn't know how to load bullets into the magazines when we first got our gear issued. I'm a Texas boy, and there was also a dude from Alabama in my platoon, so we thought it was laughable but rules are rules (even though we broke them lol). After 14 months of training and an absolute butt-fuck of a brigade-sized exercise (80 kilometer forced march up the Golan and Hermon Mountain) the Israelis finally earn their wings. 

Would I feel safer if I looked up Glock butt statistics? Do Glock butt statistics also include Glock foot, Glock thigh and Glock leg statistics as well? I'm not brainwashed, I promise! I just feel weird not having a safety on the gun and yes I know that it has 3 safety mechanisms "technically" but I just saw a video of some dude blowing his nutsack off and my balls just shriveled up into flax seeds.

I myself used to carry a Makarov in condition 3 in appendix. Racking the slide required bungee cables, pully systems and a team of oxen. In an active shooter scenario, I am what is called the "bullet sponge". 

Def want to rectify that, though.


----------



## Arf (Jan 19, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> Like I said, Israel uses lowest common denominator training in this regard due to safety issues. It is a conscripted army, and people tend to forget that. Israel doesn't have a warrior culture either- at least not like Anglo societies. I remember that many of them didn't know how to load bullets into the magazines when we first got our gear issued. I'm a Texas boy, and there was also a dude from Alabama in my platoon, so we thought it was laughable but rules are rules (even though we broke them lol). After 14 months of training and an absolute butt-fuck of a brigade-sized exercise (80 kilometer forced march up the Golan and Hermon Mountain) the Israelis finally earn their wings.
> 
> Would I feel safer if I looked up Glock butt statistics? Do Glock butt statistics also include Glock foot, Glock thigh and Glock leg statistics as well? I'm not brainwashed, I promise! I just feel weird not having a safety on the gun and yes I know that it has 3 safety mechanisms "technically" but I just saw a video of some dude blowing his nutsack off and my balls just shriveled up into flax seeds.
> 
> ...


Maybe ankle carry until you get some time to get to know the weapon?


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 19, 2021)

Arf said:


> Maybe ankle carry until you get some time to get to know the weapon?



.... what if I get Glock ankle?

edit: if it isn't clear, I'm sarcastic


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 23, 2021)

Okay, I went to the corner for time out and thought about what I did. In the end I went with a G19 after loud and clear instruction by literally almost everyone. Now I will practice drawing and dry firing until muscle memory gives me the confidence to carry hot and possibly near my balls. 

Does anyone have any experience with an IWB holster that has a Safariland-style retention system like ALS that will fit the G19?


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 23, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> Okay, I went to the corner for time out and thought about what I did. In the end I went with a G19 after loud and clear instruction by literally almost everyone. Now I will practice drawing and dry firing until muscle memory gives me the confidence to carry hot and possibly near my balls.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with an IWB holster that has a Safariland-style retention system like ALS that will fit the G19?


So I thought that nobody made an IWB holster with any sort of active retention, but apparently Blackhawk has one with a thumb release-style mechanism: https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...JNQDwuhom0Heuy8RIvgr23h4sT_81BjBoCzaIQAvD_BwE

Not the same as what you’re looking for, but it’s the best example I can find right now.  IWB doesn’t really lend itself to active retention for concealment reasons, but there might be something out there that fits your needs.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 24, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> Okay, I went to the corner for time out and thought about what I did. In the end I went with a G19 after loud and clear instruction by literally almost everyone. Now I will practice drawing and dry firing until muscle memory gives me the confidence to carry hot and possibly near my balls.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with an IWB holster that has a Safariland-style retention system like ALS that will fit the G19?


Unless you're vaulting and jumping around for work and HAVE to carry concealed, I don't understand why you need a retention system for a IWB/CC weapon. Even with practice you're gonna have to deal with clearing whatever shirt you're wearing; why do you need active retention?


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

frostyred said:


> Unless you're vaulting and jumping around for work and HAVE to carry concealed, I don't understand why you need a retention system for a IWB/CC weapon. Even with practice you're gonna have to deal with clearing whatever shirt you're wearing; why do you need active retention?


That's the realization that I came to pretty quickly.

In the IDF we are trained to have everything attached to us in some way or another. This bleeds into our EDC and other projects- we tie stuff down so that if we are upside down we lose nothing.

My thinking behind this is that if I got into an altercation I don't want the gun falling out if wrestling starts happening. My previous carry was a Makarov in a flimsy neoprene holster that I made even weaker by modifying it so the gun sat super low, so the trauma of always worrying about it hasn't worn off yet.

I want to feel confident that I can engage an opponent in hand-to-hand without the drama of a gun falling out. So many bad things can result from this ranging from awkward to deadly that I just would prefer it never happen. I would want a system that disengages easily and with a gross motor skill movement, something that I absolutely can't fuck up when I need my shooty gun and I need it now. I would think that it would be beneficial to have an active/passive rentention system that indeed locks it in place but can be torn out of the holster when deliberate force is applied.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 24, 2021)

Almost all holsters have adjustable passive retention.  You just adjust the screws on the holster and the gun can be made as easy or difficult to remove as you like.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Almost all holsters have adjustable passive retention.  You just adjust the screws on the holster and the gun can be made as easy or difficult to remove as you like.


For sure, I'm referring to possibly having both systems to those who like to/might be in a wrestling situation. I don't want to yank my holster off my belt because the appropriate tension for wrestling-level tension is just too tight for smooth drawing.

I want to be able to make a smooth draw by engaging a mechanism that lets the gun come out like butter but also has a fail-safe that if I absolutely yank it with the appropriate force, the mechanism falls away without dragging the holster with it.  Or maybe a fail-safe that lets me straight up yank the gun out, still holstered, but enabling the trigger to be pulled and the slide be unobstructed so continuous firing could happen in an emergency.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 24, 2021)

The Aliengear Shapeshift offers that option


----------



## Arf (Jan 24, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> In the IDF we are trained to have everything attached to us in some way or another. This bleeds into our EDC and other projects- we tie stuff down so that if we are upside down we lose nothing.



The IDF operates like they are in a sea state🌊🐳


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

Arf said:


> The IDF operates like they are in a sea state🌊🐳



They operate like they are in a Jew State. A State of Jewishness.

Equipment isn't lashed to our bodies because we might lose critical tools needed for our survival; equipment is lashed to our bodies so that we don't lose it so the state doesn't have to replace it. They want receipts, not excuses.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 24, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> They operate like they are in a Jew State. A State of Jewishness.
> 
> Equipment isn't lashed to our bodies because we might lose critical tools needed for our survival; equipment is lashed to our bodies so that we don't lose it so the state doesn't have to replace it. They want receipts, not excuses.


He was making a joke.

Chill.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

whoa did someone report that?


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 24, 2021)

@ODgreen even though we have red tags, we more often than not post as members. We'll make sure you know when we're posting as staff.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

Alright. I'm confused as to who the above message was directed, though. Who is not chill?


----------



## Grunt (Jan 24, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> Alright. I'm confused as to who the above message was directed, though. Who is not chill?


No worries, Brother...I for one am completely chill as tomorrow is Monday...and it will be a most beautiful day to behold....


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

Sohei said:


> and it will be a most beautiful day to behold....


What's happening monday?


----------



## Grunt (Jan 24, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> What's happening monday?


Ah...you must be new around here! It's a ShadowSpear thing. We celebrate Monday's here in a most excellent way as it's the BEST day of the week according to our most exalted AWP! Overlord of the Week!


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 24, 2021)

Oh man, I love cults! Long live the glorious leader!

I'd be down for some Monday sacrifices and maybe some bagels too.


----------

