# What it means to serve?



## Marauder06 (Sep 14, 2013)

Posting this without comment in order to solicit reactions to the article linked to below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason...2970.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false



> Because the burdens of twelve years of war have been borne by such a small percentage of the country, our appreciation for service has morphed into a reflexive deference toward those in uniform. If you've worn a uniform, people thank you for your service. More importantly, military veterans are open to benefits and hiring incentives in recognition for their service that dwarf those offered to other national servants. While new structures are needed to incentivize and recognize all types of national service, a good first step in this direction would be for us simply to acknowledge that there are a lot of ways to serve one's country.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 14, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> Posting this without comment in order to solicit reactions to the article linked to below:
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason...2970.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false



I agree to a point, however service is different than a job in a beuracracy.


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## Crusader74 (Sep 14, 2013)

Besides LEO's how many other Public services carry out the tasks related to the Military?  long deployments / schools away from Family & friends for long periods .. Because it's there, a leg up or what ever you wish to refer to it,  someone in the Government recognizes the service in the uniform deserves the college education or the supervisor Job or what ever it may be as to equate to a civilian who chose not to wear a uniform.. my 2 c


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 14, 2013)

No doubt that serving your nation in any capacity, is noble, and should be respected. I do not believe that military service members are the only ones getting "special benefits".

There are benefits to working in the CIA and DoS that US MIL do not get. 

Also if you were to look at military pay vs other gov, we really do make peanuts. I remember joining the Army and my first LES for the full month of pay, was less than one week of pay I had been making as a licensed plumber, but yet I was working three times as hard, and I was 24/7 vs 40 hrs a week.

I don't think you can discredit any type of service to your country, I also think benefits should be on par with the type of service.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 14, 2013)

Serving your country my first thought is serving in the military. It is a belief I have held for a long time even before enlisting. There is a phrase "Those who can, do". There are those who are willing to do. Period. That is a rather black and white view.


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## AWP (Sep 14, 2013)

That was a good point in the OP about there being other ways to serve. Maybe I'm cynical (alright, I'm cynical), but the article implies that other forms of service are the same as military service. I would disagree. The article also overlooks that an 11B shot up in the Korengal will have the same benefits as a member of a Navy band that never went anywhere.

Be honest, how many of you know someone who has served for the last 5 year and never deployed? 10 years? We'd put them on the same level as a fobbit in Iraq or Afghanistan? As an RCT trolling for IED's? That fobbit's service is just the same as some 18 series guy?

EVERY job is important, but when you look at the trees the Huff Po premise falls short. On a personal level I've never understand why someone in the Infantry is given the same benefits as a finance clerk. That's not right.


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## x SF med (Sep 14, 2013)

Personally I think there is a difference in military service and other public service;  I believe it stems from the shared relearning  of who and what you are - soldiers (generically used, to include all services) are reshaped from a bunch of lumps of 'stuff' into a Team of hardened and cohesive units that MUST function as seamless entity, yet maintain their individuality and initiative to complete any mission given.  Rliance on self, tempered with reliance on Team and a shared forging process to bring out the person that can balance that is a different species than a Peace Corps volunteer - not to belittle the Peace Corps or AmeriCorps or the other service based organizations, but we as military people are different, very different - and the difference get more flagrant the more specialized and/or violent your job.  Can you usually tell a veteran or active military person?  Yes, there is a bearing, an honor, an aura that was instilled in him/her - a pride and a sense of purpose - and a knowledge that they have put their life out there to protect everybody for whom they serve...  the check is written, it may not be cashed, but it is written and stays open for the remainder of that individual's life if that person is a true warrior.  

Public service is great and meaningful and honorable - but it does not match the commitment of the sheepdogs who willingly put their lives on the line to protect the sheep.


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## DA SWO (Sep 14, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Public service is great and meaningful and honorable - but it does not match the commitment of the sheepdogs who willingly put their lives on the line to protect the sheep.



I think those whining the most are Civil Service types (or Community Activists) who feel slighted.

They (to me) are the same as the guy running around in the Pentagon wearing ACU's (because we are at war).
They want the recognition without the same level of sacrifice.


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## 0699 (Sep 14, 2013)

I have been pretty disappointed in many of the GS and contractors that I've observed.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 14, 2013)

Well said SOWT!!!!

The same guy running around where it is safe is the one making messed up ROE.....:wall:


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## goon175 (Sep 14, 2013)

My belief is, that at a bare minimum:

If you are a male that is between the ages of 17-24 that is qualified for military service, you should serve in the military, whether it be part time or full time.
If you are a female or male not qualified for military service between the ages of 17 and 24, you should serve in a volunteer capacity either domestically or in a foreign country.
If you are outside of the 17-24 age demographic, you should put effort towards community service projects and responding to natural disasters when they come up.


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 15, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> That was a good point in the OP about there being other ways to serve. Maybe I'm cynical (alright, I'm cynical), but the article implies that other forms of service are the same as military service. I would disagree. The article also overlooks that an 11B shot up in the Korengal will have the same benefits as a member of a Navy band that never went anywhere.
> 
> Be honest, how many of you know someone who has served for the last 5 year and never deployed? 10 years? We'd put them on the same level as a fobbit in Iraq or Afghanistan? As an RCT trolling for IED's? That fobbit's service is just the same as some 18 series guy?
> 
> EVERY job is important, but when you look at the trees the Huff Po premise falls short. On a personal level I've never understand why someone in the Infantry is given the same benefits as a finance clerk. That's not right.


I'm not disagreeing, but what about intangible Vs. tangible benefits.  My assumption would be that the 11B or 18 series guys (or insert any SOF component here) do it more for the intangibles like X SF spoke about vice doing it all for the money, retirement benefits, etc.  Again, just an assumption on my part.  
Would you recommend a tiered benefit system based on rating or MOS? proximity to combat zones? etc...


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## TLDR20 (Sep 15, 2013)

I think as you move up the chain, to more lets call it professional units, it is less about"service" and more about loving the job. I think it has less to do with serving the country as serving your buddies, or just doing a good job period.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 15, 2013)

There already is a tiered benefit system (I.e. promotions, bonuses, scholls, etc) within the Army. And in many cases a tiered system outside of the Army (FBI tactical recruiting, CIA's SAD/SOG, PMC's, etc). 

Now do I think people who medical out in BCT/AIT should receive the same VA benefits as me or any other combat veteran? Absolutely not!

I think the military and the VA need to do a better job at screening claims and service records. The MEB/PEB office at Fort Sam Houston was always full up with AIT kids trying to get out on a medical, getting their VA paperwork together, jamming up the lines for the rest of us. Fucking pissed me off.


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## AWP (Sep 15, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> I'm not disagreeing, but what about intangible Vs. tangible benefits.  My assumption would be that the 11B or 18 series guys (or insert any SOF component here) do it more for the intangibles like X SF spoke about vice doing it all for the money, retirement benefits, etc.  Again, just an assumption on my part.
> Would you recommend a tiered benefit system based on rating or MOS? proximity to combat zones? etc...


 
I'm not speaking about why someone does something or their motivation, but someone who joins and knowingly goes into harm's way receives the same benefits  (retirement, dental, etc.) as someone who joins and knowingly will never go into harm's way.

As to external perks, that isn't something the DoD should worry about or factor into DoD provided benefits.

Not that benefits will ever be overhauled, but they should. There's a lot broken in the DoD's pay and benefits programs.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 15, 2013)

The one thing that always irked me about "in harms way" was soldiers getting combat pay, b/c the deployed to a FOB or sat in Kuwait but never once saw any actual combat. I mean not that $250 a month is worth biching about, but for fuck sake. I think about the same for Airborne units, getting what $150 for jump pay, really, he is jumping out of a fucking plane, yeah he probably won't die, but he damn sure is going to fuck something up eventually.

Pay wise, enlisted pay is about $10k a year under paid at ever level IMHO. I also think its total bullshit that as a grunt, I can work 24/7 spending 30-45 days in the field, or 12 months in a COP while my counterpart works bankers hours, never in the field longer than a week and deploys to a FOB with burger king, but gets the same fucking pay.

It is very imbalanced with actual pay per duties.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 15, 2013)

goon175 said:


> My belief is, that at a bare minimum:
> 
> If you are a male that is between the ages of 17-24 that is qualified for military service, you should serve in the military, whether it be part time or full time.
> If you are a female or male not qualified for military service between the ages of 17 and 24, you should serve in a volunteer capacity either domestically or in a foreign country.
> If you are outside of the 17-24 age demographic, you should put effort towards community service projects and responding to natural disasters when they come up.


The only reason I disagree is everything should be voluntary. If it is not voluntary you get more than the 10% of shitheads


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 15, 2013)

JAB said:


> The one thing that always irked me about "in harms way" was soldiers getting combat pay, b/c the deployed to a FOB or sat in Kuwait but never once saw any actual combat. I mean not that $250 a month is worth biching about, but for fuck sake. I think about the same for Airborne units, getting what $150 for jump pay, really, he is jumping out of a fucking plane, yeah he probably won't die, but he damn sure is going to fuck something up eventually.
> 
> Pay wise, enlisted pay is about $10k a year under paid at ever level IMHO. I also think its total bullshit that as a grunt, I can work 24/7 spending 30-45 days in the field, or 12 months in a COP while my counterpart works bankers hours, never in the field longer than a week and deploys to a FOB with burger king, but gets the same fucking pay.
> 
> It is very imbalanced with actual pay per duties.


To pour some salt into that wound, sailors _*on ships*_ in the ME were getting that same hazardous duty pay...  It pisses me off to no end to hear some of them bitch about it going away.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 15, 2013)

JAB said:


> There already is a tiered benefit system (I.e. promotions, bonuses, scholls, etc) within the Army. And in many cases a tiered system outside of the Army (FBI tactical recruiting, CIA's SAD/SOG, PMC's, etc).
> 
> Now do I think people who medical out in BCT/AIT should receive the same VA benefits as me or any other combat veteran? Absolutely not!
> 
> I think the military and the VA need to do a better job at screening claims and service records. The MEB/PEB office at Fort Sam Houston was always full up with AIT kids trying to get out on a medical, getting their VA paperwork together, jamming up the lines for the rest of us. Fucking pissed me off.



Kids who graduate USMC boot, go home for 10 fucking days, come to Receiving Platoon for SOI/ITB and claim "personality disorder"


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## goon175 (Sep 15, 2013)

Polar Bear said:


> The only reason I disagree is everything should be voluntary. If it is not voluntary you get more than the 10% of shitheads



Oh I'm not suggesting anything to the contrary. What I put above is what I think _should_ happen, not what I would suggest be made mandatory by law.


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## DA SWO (Sep 16, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> Kids who graduate USMC boot, go home for 10 fucking days, come to Receiving Platoon for SOI/ITB and claim "personality disorder"


Write it up as a pre-existing medical condition and send them out with a RE4 code.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 16, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Write it up as a pre-existing medical condition and send them out with a RE4 code.



Dishonorable Discharge.


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## x SF med (Sep 16, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> Kids who graduate USMC boot, go home for 10 fucking days, come to Receiving Platoon for SOI/ITB and claim "personality disorder"


 
Wow, because they've grown and changed and become Marines and they're different from their shitbag friends and don't relate to them anymore...  that's not personality disorder, that's being a friggin Marine, you're not johhny on the block anymore, you ARE different.  and your psychobabbling friends with nothing but a degree and no experience tell you you have a personality disorder because you're not a sheep anymore?  You never were, you just never realized it, you're either a sheepdog or a wolf on a chain now...  and that's never going to change back, embrace the sheepdog and muzzle the wolf - but don't bitch about personality disorders.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 16, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Wow, because they've grown and changed and become Marines and they're different from their shitbag friends and don't relate to them anymore...  that's not personality disorder, that's being a friggin Marine, you're not johhny on the block anymore, you ARE different.  and your psychobabbling friends with nothing but a degree and no experience tell you you have a personality disorder because you're not a sheep anymore?  You never were, you just never realized it, you're either a sheepdog or a wolf on a chain now...  and that's never going to change back, embrace the sheepdog and muzzle the wolf - but don't bitch about personality disorders.



I am not sure what you are saying?

edit: Perhaps you missed my point. My point it makes me mad when these kids come back and suddenly have a personality disorder after only 10 days home. They do this looking to get out of the Corps. To me you wasted 3 months in boot. You wasted everyones time.  You wasted your time. Now you are draining resources from the system in an effort to get out of the Corps since it appears to me you didn't want to be "in" in the first place.


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## x SF med (Sep 16, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> I am not sure what you are saying?
> 
> edit: Perhaps you missed my point. My point it makes me mad when these kids come back and suddenly have a personality disorder after only 10 days home. They do this looking to get out of the Corps. To me you wasted 3 months in boot. You wasted everyones time.  You wasted your time. Now you are draining resources from the system in an effort to get out of the Corps since it appears to me you didn't want to be "in" in the first place.


 
I was agreeing with you, and stating they let the peer pressure from their friends at home convince them that they had a personality disorder because they were not the same as when they left.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 16, 2013)

x SF med said:


> I was agreeing with you, and stating they let the peer pressure from their friends at home convince them that they had a personality disorder because they were not the same as when they left.



I second that statement.

*puts the dictionary away*


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## x SF med (Sep 16, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> I second that statement.
> 
> *puts the dictionary away*


 

I can parse and explain the original post for you... in little words...

friends say bad, changed...  new Marine thinks, me not same? what wrong?  I tell commander not good, must go home and smoke weed and drink 40's with friends, they say me not same...  not want to be Marine, not want to be better than friends...  (okay, i'm peeing myself here, I can't go any further.... it hurts, make it stop...)


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## 8654Maine (Sep 16, 2013)

Oh, shit, that is funnnnnnny!


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## medicchick (Sep 16, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Wow, because they've grown and changed and become Marines and they're different from their shitbag friends and don't relate to them anymore...  that's not personality disorder, that's being a friggin Marine, you're not johhny on the block anymore, you ARE different.  and your psychobabbling friends with nothing but a degree and no experience tell you you have a personality disorder because you're not a sheep anymore?  You never were, you just never realized it, you're either a sheepdog or a wolf on a chain now...  and that's never going to change back, embrace the sheepdog and muzzle the wolf - but don't bitch about personality disorders.




TL;DL (sorry Troll I really did read it)

Grew the fuck up in boot and doesn't relate to old friends anymore


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## Salt USMC (Sep 17, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> Kids who graduate USMC boot, go home for 10 fucking days, come to Receiving Platoon for SOI/ITB and claim "personality disorder"



If it makes you feel any better, they won't qualify for the very best benefit: The Post-9/11 GI bill!


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## AMRUSMCR (Sep 17, 2013)

Maybe those making these statements (complaints) should nut up and shut up and do a risk assessment.  Would they like better accolades or would they like to complete their 20 years of "service" with their life, limbs, hearing, etc intact?  

This article leaves confused - There's a difference between Military/Law Enforcement/Firefighters and other public service venues.  I am not sure what formal system of awards, honors, and accolades as recognition for services performed should be adopted to give those in less risky capacities more public atta-boys so they can feel better about their service?  Even at our most basic level of training in the military there is risk of bodily injury, let alone the rest of the issues faced during a career in the military.  

Take those complaining about lack of recognition need to tour a VA sometime and do a weekend of community service assisting Veteran's who have sacrificed their body, mind and/or soul in service to the United States.  After that weekend, they can write down their definition of 'service' and how their atta-boy should be as big as or bigger than the Veterans they worked with throughout that weekend.

  Maybe I'm already pissed the F off by spending a chunk of my weekend with left wing, every third sentence starts with "well I work for a non-profit", closed minded asshats and that's skewing my view when I read this article.

If you've served your country, in any capacity, great!  Everyone should "serve" their community in some capacity and feel good for doing so.  Based on your choice of service, there's a significant difference in the risks & sacrifices taken and as such, there is going to be a different system of awards & recognition.


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## x SF med (Sep 17, 2013)

AMRUSMCR said:


> whole post.


 
Nice to see you back, it's been a while. 

All most people need to do is work at a USO for a Patriot Flight Night and watch what these military families and soldiers(generic) go through to get to their new jobs...  It's eye opening, families racked out on floors for hours, possibly only to get the service member on the initial flight, then having a mom (or dad) stuck with x number of kids hanging around for up to a week to get the next AMC flight (Hopefully) to the same destination, or having to pay for transport out of pocket and hopefully get reimbursed.  Be at a USO when it's a compassion flight for the family of a wounded warrior, or a KIA...  deal with a foreign wife who barely speaks English and has never navigated a large airport and barely has enough money to eat.

And this travel fiasco is only a very small portion of a soldier's sacrifice to protect the rest of the country.


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