# Guidance on what path to take



## Lefty375 (Oct 25, 2009)

Hey all,

first and foremost thanks for reading and helping. I will try and get my question across in the quickest and most effective way possible, so I will use bullets. 

-I am currently a 13F in the 82nd. 
-I ETS in feb 2011
-The job I'm shooting for is Clandestine in the CIA first and foremost, or Fed Law Enforcement (FBI, DEA, ATF)* 
- If I go to college after the Army, I plan on majoring in International Relations with a language.
-If I stay in the Army, I plan on going to SF selection. 

With all that being said, I am unsure what would be the best route to take for the career that I would want, and how the timing should go (SF before college, SF after college). Or if SF is even necessary with my military experience. I just turned 21 so I feel like this is the crossroad that will set up my life and my career. I am seeking advice from older and wiser people, who have been there and done that, and have friends who have taken many routes. *I realize the requirements for all these positions, and have looked them up*, but what I'm looking for is what will put me ahead more.  I appreciate any help/advice anyone can offer. 

Thanks! 

p.s.- fml if this isn't the right place to post something like this.

*I do realize that these are two totally different types of jobs. I also realize that you aren't supposed to advertise that you want to join the CIA.


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## Scotth (Oct 25, 2009)

Not my field of expertise so take what I say at face value.

Look at possibilities for going the National Guard route for SF and college after SF pipeline is complete. Probably want to talk to the guys that are in NG SF for better information on the commitment. At least if the SF route doesn't work out you will have more time to pursue the college education while serving in the National Guards vs the active Army.:2c:

Like I said, just an idea not expert advice!!!


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## Olive Drab (Oct 25, 2009)

What about Fed LE appeals to you?  What do you think you will do as a Special Agent that is so appealing?  Chasing down weak leads?  Getting told to F-off by people who hate the POO-lice?  Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork?  Getting solid cases turned down by the US attorneys office?  
What job in clandestine are you looking for?  Case officer, Ground, etc?
Get your degree.

Anyway, ask yourself.  Do you want to be a Fed?  Do you want to be a spook?  Do you want the Long Tab?  Or do you just want a title?


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## Olive Drab (Oct 25, 2009)

Scotth said:


> Not my field of expertise so take what I say at face value.
> 
> Look at possibilities for going the National Guard route for SF and college after SF pipeline is complete. Probably want to talk to the guys that are in NG SF for better information on the commitment. At least if the SF route doesn't work out you will have more time to pursue the college education while serving in the National Guards vs the active Army.:2c:
> 
> Like I said, just an idea not expert advice!!!


You are either in or out of the military reserve/guard or not.  The more specialized/small (SOF or not) the unit, the higher the optempo with the current conflict. I would either set a goal of a degree or serving, not both.  Both will prolong/interfere with the other.


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## Lefty375 (Oct 25, 2009)

Scotth said:


> Not my field of expertise so take what I say at face value.
> 
> Look at possibilities for going the National Guard route for SF and college after SF pipeline is complete. Probably want to talk to the guys that are in NG SF for better information on the commitment. At least if the SF route doesn't work out you will have more time to pursue the college education while serving in the National Guards vs the active Army.:2c:
> 
> Like I said, just an idea not expert advice!!!



Thank you for the insight.



Olive Drab said:


> What about Fed LE appeals to you?  What job in clandestine are you looking for?  Case officer, Ground, etc?
> Get your degree.



The investigate work, along with some of the action. I have always wanted to do it. 

In clandestine, i am looking at the core collector.  

Thank you for your advice.

after your olive: At the end of the day, my #1 goal is to be a Fed. 
It appeals to me, because I honestly can't see myself doing anything else. I have always wanted to do it. Once I joined the military, it gave me enough time to slow down and think about what I wanted in life. It is kind of hard to explain why I suppose. I don't want it because of the title. I realize there are a lot of downsides to the job, but it seems like the job people join because they want to be there, not because they want to make tons of money.


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## Teufel (Oct 25, 2009)

lucky l3fty said:


> Hey all,
> 
> first and foremost thanks for reading and helping. I will try and get my question across in the quickest and most effective way possible, so I will use bullets.
> 
> ...



It seems like you will have to go to college to achieve most of your goals.  Go to college.


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## x SF med (Oct 25, 2009)

No matter which path you choose, start your language training now.

SF is not a part time job, even for the NG SF Groups, it is a commitment that requires everything you have to become qualified, and that's just the beginning.

You have to choose your goals, you also have to choose the path or paths you will take to get there.  Sometimes the best path to a goal is not what appears the most direct to reach it.  Study the map and plan your route to your objective.

Figure out your objective.  Figure out the path that best suits what you need to learn to get to that objective.

You are an adult, you have to figure out where you are going.


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## Lefty375 (Oct 26, 2009)

Roger that x SF Med. Thank you for the advice.

Just seems like a hard decision of SF or college first...


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## AWP (Oct 26, 2009)

21 + 4 years of college, maybe 6 to be more competitive + time in SF.....the Fed cutoff is 35, right? You don't have much of a window to do all of that. Not impossible, but you aren't going to sleep much over the next 10+ years.

Get your degree(s) and put in your Fed packet. SF will still be there and if the Feds don't pick you up for some reason you can still make a run at SF.

Or drop your packet to go over the fence now and sort out the degree if you don't make it.

Good luck.


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## dknob (Oct 26, 2009)

any 18 series MOS; how many college credits does that translate too later on?


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## shortbrownguy (Oct 26, 2009)

dknob said:


> any 18 series MOS; how many college credits does that translate too later on?



It depends on the MOS, schools attended, etc.


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## Scotth (Oct 26, 2009)

dknob said:


> any 18 series MOS; how many college credits does that translate too later on?


 
I saw this on the 18D career field and college credits going through the Western Carolina University system.

http://www.soc.aascu.org/pubfiles/degbldar/DegPln_18D_WCU.pdf

Of course training, previous education, work experience and testing can effect how many credits you obtain towards a BS degree in Emergency Medical Care.


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## olsarge59 (Oct 26, 2009)

OK
I have read of enough of this BS thread.  Now it is my turn,
Wanna be a Green Beret-Go to selection first, then we will talk Q course, then we can talk Green Beret!! Then you get language school, combat and experience.  Take some on line college and you might get a AA degree in 4 yrs. But you we be a Green Beret, that has a language, combat/ experience!!
Wanna go to college- Take the GI Bill got to college for 4 years, take boring classes, drink beer and chase pussy!  You be a college student with good party stories.
Wanna be a FED need 4 year degree- After 4 years of step 2, then it is paperwork and low reward job, because you do not have any experience.  You can tell stories of all the paperwork you did to get other more experience people promoted!!
GO to selection now, or you could regret it the rest of your life.
SF/Ranger/Sniper/ MFF Green Beret speaking-


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## Trip_Wire (Oct 26, 2009)

x SF med said:


> No matter which path you choose, start your language training now.
> 
> SF is not a part time job, even for the NG SF Groups, it is a commitment that requires everything you have to become qualified, and that's just the beginning.
> 
> ...



I couldn't have said it better! Now days SF units are either in the Active Army or National Guard there are no Reserve SFG(A)'s anymore.

If it was me I'd choose the Federal job first and devote your time and efforts to that job(s) since you have indicated that is your first choice. 

If and when you become a Federal Agent, if your still interested in SF, you can check out the NG SF Units in your area. Be warned though, that you may not have the time to devote to becoming a qualified 18x as well as the deployments that will no doubt come with serving as a qualified 18x in a NG SF unit when you are a Federal agent.

Make a choice and follow it through!:2c:


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## JJ sloan (Oct 26, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> 21 + 4 years of college, maybe 6 to be more competitive + time in SF.....the Fed cutoff is 35, right? You don't have much of a window to do all of that. Not impossible, but you aren't going to sleep much over the next 10+ years.
> 
> Get your degree(s) and put in your Fed packet. SF will still be there and if the Feds don't pick you up for some reason you can still make a run at SF.
> 
> ...



That is sound advice from a knowledgable individual.  Take it.

No one was ever sorry that they got a degree... make that your goal and don't stray from it.


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## Lefty375 (Oct 26, 2009)

Thank You all. I can't express the appreciation I have for each of you, helping me out. The general consensus seems to be, go to college. So I guess that's the next step in my life!

Thanks again.


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## 104TN (Oct 26, 2009)

lucky l3fty said:


> Thank You all. I can't express the appreciation I have for each of you, helping me out. The general consensus seems to be, go to college. So I guess that's the next step in my life!
> 
> Thanks again.



Side note:
If you do decide to go the college route, do yourself a favor and don't choose a BS major.

If the name of the degree program doesn't correspond with an actual occupation you're probably wasting your time. :2c:


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## Lefty375 (Oct 26, 2009)

rick said:


> Side note:
> If you do decide to go the college route, do yourself a favor and don't choose a BS major.
> 
> If the name of the degree program doesn't correspond with an actual occupation you're probably wasting your time. :2c:



Roger that. 

I plan on majoring in International Relations, and learning a language. Hopefully arabic.


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## BravoOne (Nov 1, 2009)

My 2 cents...

 Since you have an interest in  a Federal LEO gig and also something highspeed in the military. Think about getting off Active Duty and entering the Reserves/NG as a 35M or 35L while checking off the college box. A degree in Intelligence Studies, Homeland Security,etc... would be good. If I were 21 again I would have gotten my degree in Intelligence Studies. Anyway... those are not SF long tabbed wearing jobs but can be very interesting and seem to be inline with your  long term goals. 
 As a 35M (HUMINT Collector) you would get some very good training and schools if you go to the right unit and are an NCO. Some of the schools that would be available to you are in high demand by not only Federal LEAs but DoD Intelligence agencies that you might want to consider. I am not a 35M but I have several close friends who are and they did went on to dive and jump school and they have some very interesting work. 
 As a 35L (Counterintelligence Special Agent) you would be an accredited Federal Agent and among your responsibilities would be to investigate Treason, Sabotage, Sedition, Espionage and other National Security Crimes within CI jurisdiction. The experience would be invaluable for someone looking at being a FLEO. There are high speed opportunities available in and out of the DoD. There are 35L at the SF groups and there are 35L who work around the country assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force.
 A CI/HUMINT background makes you attractive to the Feds. I have had a few offers. Customs, ICE,etc... 
 Just something to chew on. Good luck!


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## Ajax (Nov 2, 2009)

dknob said:


> any 18 series MOS; how many college credits does that translate too later on?



depends on the MOS and the school.  I got 40-something.  But I'm not an 18B, which would probably get six or so.

If you want in, PM me.  13F is a good transition MOS to 18 series...unless you're a douche.  You're not a douche are you?  We have a no douche policy.  (X before you get all crazy on the keyboard, I came in like you, pre-douchebag policy).


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## Ajax (Nov 2, 2009)

lucky l3fty said:


> Roger that.
> 
> I plan on majoring in International Relations, and learning a language. Hopefully arabic.



You can start (and finish) your degree in Intl Relations at AMU.  AMU is online.  You should enroll now and start taking classes on Uncle Sugar's dime.  Take your languages as a resident.  Or go to the Q-course and knock out your language credits there.


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## dknob (Nov 2, 2009)

> If you want in, PM me.  13F is a good transition MOS to 18 series...unless you're a douche.  You're not a douche are you?  We have a no douche policy.  (X before you get all crazy on the keyboard, I came in like you, pre-douchebag policy).




This is true, its a long shot he even makes it through SFAS. Current military or high school wannabee doesnt really make a difference.


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## Olive Drab (Nov 2, 2009)

BravoOne said:


> My 2 cents...
> 
> Since you have an interest in  a Federal LEO gig and also something highspeed in the military. Think about getting off Active Duty and entering the Reserves/NG as a 35M or 35L while checking off the college box. A degree in Intelligence Studies, Homeland Security,etc... would be good. If I were 21 again I would have gotten my degree in Intelligence Studies. Anyway... those are not SF long tabbed wearing jobs but can be very interesting and seem to be inline with your  long term goals.
> As a 35M (HUMINT Collector) you would get some very good training and schools if you go to the right unit and are an NCO. Some of the schools that would be available to you are in high demand by not only Federal LEAs but DoD Intelligence agencies that you might want to consider. I am not a 35M but I have several close friends who are and they did went on to dive and jump school and they have some very interesting work.
> ...


Im not trying to sharpshoot but why would a degree in homeland security or intel studies or even crim justice help out?  They are niche degrees and the way Fed LE seems to be going on the SA side, is coming to the table with a skill, experience and hopefully a language.  Honestly, I can count the people I work with who have a crim justice degree on one hand.  Its too specialized and the market is flooded with them.


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## x SF med (Nov 2, 2009)

Ajax said:


> depends on the MOS and the school. I got 40-something. But I'm not an 18B, which would probably get six or so.
> 
> If you want in, PM me. 13F is a good transition MOS to 18 series...unless you're a douche. You're not a douche are you? We have a no douche policy. (X before you get all crazy on the keyboard, I came in like you, pre-douchebag policy).


 
Ajax - you are the reason for the no douchebag policy, I saw the memo.:doh:


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## Centermass (Nov 2, 2009)

Olive Drab said:


> Im not trying to sharpshoot but why would a degree in homeland security or intel studies or even crim justice help out?  They are niche degrees and the way Fed LE seems to be going on the SA side, is coming to the table with a skill, experience and hopefully a language.  Honestly, I can count the people I work with who have a crim justice degree on one hand.  Its too specialized and the market is flooded with them.



On the LE side, OD is dead on. Think the economy or your next employer should you find yourself in a new line of work due to accident or injury will be impressed by a niche degree? You just narrowed your blanket factor of hirability considerably. Go for a broader scope when picking a minor or major. Most LE institutions requiring a degree care that you have a degree period, as long as it's from an accreditied institution and not some paper mill.

Not to mention life/job possibilities after a career in SF or LE: e.g. You'll get more mileage with a degree in Business than a CJ degree. :2c:


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## BravoOne (Nov 2, 2009)

I agree with you OD. They just require A degree in something. That having been said a degree in Intelligence Studies, along with some CI/HUMINT experience is seen as a good thing to those in the field. I have seen Chief Warrant Officers (Our Team Chiefs) looking over a Soldier's mil bio and see a degree in business (along with their experience) and seen them look at another who is getting deeper into CI with his education and its a different look. 
There are a LOT of opportunities for CI/HUMINT types. A shortage of qualified people and plenty of work to go around. Educated and experienced guys are making some nice money as contractors and Government employees. The ones with NO degree are doing pretty good too though. This Soldier could go CI/HUMINT and become a DoD MICECP or some of the other things we have that are similiar to the Federal LE 1811 type gigs. Still a Sworn B & C carrying Special Agent... just different responsibilities and authority. MICECP is one of the few such positions that doesnt require a degree and the age cutoff of say FBI,etc...
 I am in the AMU program and I like it. It is a niche but I dont mind. My civilian profession doesnt require a degree and I am paid pretty well. I wanted to increase the depth of my knowledge in my MOS and pick up the degree I put off for so long in the process. Afterall it IS free! And that is something else that I try to tell the younger Soldiers. Use the benefits and learn from the errors of the guys on their 2nd and 3rd enlistments.
I was just trying to tell a 21 year old a little something from my experiences being 35 and being in MI since 21. I run into a lot of 22-25 year olds who want to go SF, they want to go to Ranger school and all these things but as you know it aint easy. Many are called but the chose are few.


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## Lefty375 (Nov 22, 2009)

Again I would like to thank everyone for the help. It's a little late, but this advice/pm's i have received, have helped me with the decision. 

Thanks everyone!


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## car (Nov 22, 2009)

As all have already said - get your degree. As to what you get it in is up to you. Anything "Intel" or "Security" or things like that are what someone already said - "niche."

 Business or Economics are good. Law is better.

But like the Troll suggested, start studying language now. There are many of us here who can tell stories about how having a second language got us through situations that guns couldn't possibly have.  BTW - I suggest Persian-Farsi or Tagalog.

Good luck.


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