# Questions about Marine Corps rifle qual



## kb2012 (Jul 7, 2017)

Hey gents, 

I'm currently at The Basic School and we're starting range week on Sunday. I just had a few questions that hopefully I can get some outside advice on because the range instructors aren't really helping me with this. 

In the sitting position, my left leg just isn't getting up high enough. I'm hunching down pretty far just to get my elbows on my thighs and I'm pushing my head down just to get property cheek weld and sight picture. The instructors just keep telling me to adjust my feet to raise my knees, but it doesn't really help. Eventually I'm sitting on top of my right foot and my left knee drops down even further. Do you have any tips for getting that knee up higher? (Side note on that, we shot today at the ISMT from the sitting position at 200 and my groupings were very tight and 80% 5's, 20% 4's. I seem to be shooting well but the position I get in is unlike any others'. Is it just an awkward position for me and I need to suck it up in that awkward position just to qual?)

Also, I feel like I'm just absolutely guessing when I'm aiming from the standing position. I've tried the C and reverse C and neither one seems to work for me. They keep telling me that it is the most unstable position and reticle drift is unavoidable but I just cannot hover around my desired hold whatsoever. Also, resting on my magazine pouches on my LBV doesn't seem to stabilize me either. Is this another thing I just have to suck it up and deal with and just shoot my best guess on qual day?


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 7, 2017)

Short answer, yes and yes.  You have to draw those legs in to support that elbow lest you hunch over too far and drop your shot.  You can try propping your left hip on your right boot, getting that right foot under your right cheek, it might raise you a couple inches.  But if you are shooting well but in an awkward position, you might just want to stay with that if it's working.

As for standing, yeah, good luck.  That's tough for everyone.  I got nothing.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2017)

You need to do lots and lots of snap drills, not sure how the jar heads do it, but if you can't get into a standard sitting position, there is a modified sitting position where you tuck your firing leg, and bring up the non firing knee, basically a kneeling position with your butt on the ground.

Standing, just takes time. Learning the wobble and breaking the shot as you wobble into center mass. I always tried to keep a sideways figure 8 wobble pattern using my breathing on the up and downs of the figure 8, trying to break my shots as I wobbled into the middle. For accuracy, I prefer the NRA high-power off hand position. It's not really a practical position, but it's the most stable standing position. 

Again, snap drills. You have to build the muscles, you will fatigue on the qual unless you build up a tolerance for those positions. 

It's a bit shocking to hear your marksmanship instructor is not beating this stuff into your head. USMC has always had good quality control on their marksmanship programs/instructors. I've got a few buddies who are still pretty tight with the USMC shooting team. Feel free to PM me your instructors name, rank, and duty location.  I'll pass it along and probably have you a what the hell is going on fix by Monday, or at least get you some 'special one on one instruction'.


----------



## DocIllinois (Jul 7, 2017)

+1 on that type of shooting position mentioned by @Diamondback 2/2 .



I cut a piece of 2" PVC pipe to the same length as an M4, filled it with enough sand to make it the same weight as a rifle w/ full mag, then made standing with it for long periods in the preferred position part of my PT for a couple of months.

A bit of overkill, maybe, but my standing hits were much more tight and consistent after that.   YMMV.

ETA:  pic


----------



## kb2012 (Jul 7, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> It's a bit shocking to hear your marksmanship instructor is not beating this stuff into your head. USMC has always had good quality control on their marksmanship programs/instructors. I've got a few buddies who are still pretty tight with the USMC shooting team. Feel free to PM me your instructors name, rank, and duty location.  I'll pass it along and probably have you a what the hell is going on fix by Monday, or at least get you some 'special one on one instruction'.



I should have been clearer. They're doing their job I'm just not "getting it" with the ways they explain it to me.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 7, 2017)

kb2012 said:


> I should have been clearer. They're doing their job I'm just not "getting it" with the ways they explain it to me.



They are unnatural positions that take a lot of work to get right.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2017)

Take note how he always finds his natural point of aim, getc fully relaxed closes his eyes, opens and adjusts his base to gain NPA.

In the sitting position, you can also do a half turn towards your firing side, prop up a knee and rest the rifle magazine and pistol grip between the knee.

The main thing, is snapping in, your really need to just do it over and over until the positions start to become second nature. They never get comfortable,  but they will become more natural to you. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire! Oh, the hours I should have been chasing pussy, spent dry firing.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 7, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The main thing, is snapping in, your really need to just do it over and over until the positions start to become second nature. They never get comfortable, but they will become more natural to you. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire! Oh, the hours I should have been chasing pussy, spent dry firing.



Yep.


----------



## Teufel (Jul 7, 2017)

The instructors are good. Listen to them. It's takes some practice but you'll be alright if you apply the fundamentals. The shooting positions can be awkward. It doesn't matter if you look like you're in the cross legged tantric lotus position if you're within regulations and putting rounds on target.


----------



## kb2012 (Jul 8, 2017)

@Diamondback 2/2 thanks for those videos. I will give that a shot. 

The position you described sounds like our kneeling position, which I'm not sure they would allow some kind of hybrid. I have actually tried that while snapping it and it feels much better and I still maintain stability. I'll  have to ask if that is authorized for sitting.

I'm not sure if I can rest my magazine and pistol over my knee. I think that would be considered artificial support.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 8, 2017)

The sitting position _is _a bit awkward. It was for me when I qualled with the M14 at PI. The 14 had more of a recoil and the positions are meant to absorb the recoil and help you "rock" right back on target...and they do work. But I must admit I never fired the M16 in any combat situation from any position I ever learned at boot camp or in subsequent shooting quals. And never sitting on my right foot.

The awkward positions are also meant for stability. When snapping in, the PMIs used to walk around and kick the barrel of your rifle. If it came out of your hands you weren't holding it right, you were not in the proper position.


----------



## kb2012 (Jul 14, 2017)

Thanks for your help gents. I shot Expert


----------



## Teufel (Jul 14, 2017)

Congratulations.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 14, 2017)

Congrats!


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Jul 15, 2017)

[Q8


----------

