# Buckshot Can Be Lethal



## LibraryLady (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm a proponent of the shotgun and buckshot option as one of the many choices for home defense.  I didn't want to clutter up the home defense thread with this, nor the other Joe Horn thread as it pertained to the actions of the shooter.

Got these from another board, totalprotectioninteractive.com - it's a registration only forum.

Autopsy reports:

http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/08/07/01/ortiz.pdf

http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/08/07/01/torres.pdf

The condensed version on wound sites:

http://www.chron.com/disp/dispcomp2.mpl?cid=11899117

This is a reenactment:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/16784608/detail.html?rss=hou&psp=news

LL


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2008)

This is extremely interesting, I read through the autopsy reports. However, I was unable to watch the video (due to internet issues). I did not read anything on the distance between Mr. Horn and the suspects who were killed. Judging by the shot spread, I am guessing they were around 9 to 10 yards away.

Does anyone know the actual distance between Mr. Horn and the two suspects?

It will always stand true, that the more holes you give a bad guy to bleed from. The more likely the bad guy is to die…

Great post LL;)


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## 8'Duece (Jul 10, 2008)

@ 25 yards with my Benelli M1 Super 90 with the IC choke the pattern is still @ just a little over 7" Anything shorter, and it's a 2"-4" hole COM. Federal "low recoil" OO Buck is what those where measured with.

This is interesting : http://www.chron.com/disp/dispcomp2.mpl?cid=11899117

Over penetration. 

I'm rethinking my home defense load.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2008)

82ndtrooper said:


> @ 25 yards with my Benelli M1 Super 90 with the IC choke the pattern is still @ just a little over 7" Anything shorter, and it's a 2"-4" hole COM. Federal "low recoil" OO Buck is what those where measured with.
> 
> This is interesting : http://www.chron.com/disp/dispcomp2.mpl?cid=11899117
> 
> ...



Yeah I a was going off the rule of thumb “ 1inch per 1 yard” I guess that may be a little out dated for today’s more advanced loads and weapons.

I am a firm believer in birdshot, for inside the home and buck out side the home. I use to keep my M590 loaded with 4 buck #9 rounds followed by 3 birdshot rounds. If I needed to shoot in the house, I had three rounds of bird. If I needed to shoot something out side I had three rounds to pump out and then it was all buck!

I have seen some hunting accidents photos of people in the past, who have been shot with birdshot and IMO it would be more than adequate in the home at close range!


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## JBS (Jul 10, 2008)

J.A.B., I've heard this before a few times, but never really looked into it.

I'm referring to how some people seem to advocate bird shot for self defense.

It has always been my opinion in the past that birdshot would just piss someone off- especially if you were at any further distance than arm's length, and they were wearing a leather jacket (or something like that).

My question is: why do you prefer birdshot, over just having 6 or 7 rounds of straight buck?


Great post, btw, LL.  Very interesting.


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## skeeter (Jul 10, 2008)

I've seen a guy hit with #7 1/2 bird shot at over 50 yds. over 20 pellets penatrated including at least 3 in the face. good thing he was wearing his saftyglasses!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 11, 2008)

JoeBlackSpade said:


> J.A.B., I've heard this before a few times, but never really looked into it.
> 
> I'm referring to how some people seem to advocate bird shot for self defense.
> 
> ...



The photos that I have seen of hunting accidents, showed people who had been shot with bird shot in the chest, arms and back. I don't have them, they were on a buddies computer. Either way the photos, showed complete and utter damage to the injured areas. One of the arm pictures did not have a bit of tissue still on the arm. 

I have shot just about everything you can think of with bird shot, old frig, corrugated tin, sheet rock est. Bird shot will penetrate a whole hell of a lot more then you think, And I would trust it to kill just about anything out to ten yards... The great thing about bird shot in the home, is it loses a lot of it velocity quickly. In other words if you miss, it might put a big hole in the sheet rock. However it's not going to kill some one on the other side of the wall.

So you can expect to really screw someone up with in 10 yards, but not kill the loved one down the hall (if you miss). 

I decided to go with bird shot in the home, after some long drawn out thinking and (shade tree) testing...


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## JBS (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks, J.A.B.


*gets his shopping list, adds birdshot*

I'll have to do some testing soon too.  Birdshot also has less recoil, so that's faster shooting in succession with less muzzle drift.

I'd been meaning to crack this nut open and study it out ever since my uncle first suggested he was going to keep birdshot in his shotgun a few years ago.  I just never got around to investigating it.


I keep 00 and slugs for my Mossberg 500.


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## skeeter (Jul 15, 2008)

If you use bird shot don't go with the lower numbers like #9s go with something about #4s or Higher like #3,2,1s;)


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