# Army to Recommend MultiCam for Entire Force



## Spider6 (Jul 2, 2012)

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...r-entire-force.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1

Evidently the recommendation will be made this fall with the following options:

"One option would be to make MultiCam the Army's official camouflage pattern, sources tell Military.com.

The second option would be to make MultiCam the service's pattern for garrison and general deployment use, but also to have a family of approved camouflage patterns that could be issued for specific areas of the world."

The second option sounds a lot like the "old days" when we all wore BDUs then got DCUs before we got on the plane.


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## IT101 (Jul 2, 2012)

The Navy got the camouflage idea spot on the first time, assuming my theory on the pattern is correct: It hides dust and gray paint like no other can!

People say, "Well, what if you fall in the water?" No matter what color (blue, green, bright pink) your outfit, the only thing that would save you in the freezing, expansive ocean is if you have chem lights strung up all over.


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## Spider6 (Jul 2, 2012)

IT101 said:


> The Navy got the camouflage idea spot on the first time, assuming my theory on the pattern is correct: It hides dust and gray paint like no other can!
> 
> People say, "Well, what if you fall in the water?" No matter what color (blue, green, bright pink) your outfit, the only thing that would save you in the freezing, expansive ocean is if you have chem lights strung up all over.


 
LOL......I will freely admit that that was a question of mine regarding the Navy pattern!  Speaking of which why not just have Sailors in immersion suits all the time.  It keeps them warm and its a bright red!


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## IT101 (Jul 2, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> LOL......I will freely admit that that was a question of mine regarding the Navy pattern! Speaking of which why not just have Sailors in immersion suits all the time. It keeps them warm and its a bright red!


You know, that's a very good question! I will admit, though, that our coveralls are some of the most comfortable outfits ever. No camouflage, but no one cares if they get dirty.


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## pardus (Jul 2, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> http://www.military.com/daily-news/...r-entire-force.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1
> 
> Evidently the recommendation will be made this fall with the following options:
> 
> ...


 
Good lord, I think I'm going to have a heart attack! 
A decision that makes sense and will save money... Can't be...

I sincerely hope they adopt the second option. 



IT101 said:


> The Navy got the camouflage idea spot on the first time, assuming my theory on the pattern is correct: It hides dust and gray paint like no other can!
> 
> People say, "Well, what if you fall in the water?" No matter what color (blue, green, bright pink) your outfit, the only thing that would save you in the freezing, expansive ocean is if you have chem lights strung up all over.


 
The Navy and it's camo. Yeah.... retarded is a kind word.

The Pacific, Indian oceans are freezing?  Interesting 

How about the coverall with an inbuilt strobe that activates upon immersion in water like airplanes lifejackets? Damn that took me all of 2 minutes to come up with.


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## IT101 (Jul 2, 2012)

pardus said:


> The Navy and it's camo. Yeah.... retarded is a kind word.
> 
> The Pacific, Indian oceans are freezing? Interesting
> 
> How about the coverall with an inbuilt strobe that activates upon immersion in water like airplanes lifejackets? Damn that took me all of 2 minutes to come up with.


All things considered, the current NWU is the best option for what's required of that particular uniform. Throw in the fact it's a hell of a lot more comfortable than our previous iterations, and you won't find me complaining. It's a definite departure from the norm, and wasn't well received by, well, anybody. However, again, it's comfortable, has more than enough pockets, and does what it was intended to.


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## pardus (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm interested, what is required of the uniform, What is it intended to do?


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## goon175 (Jul 2, 2012)

I don't even know what to do with myself. There is so much common sense flowing that it just blows me away....

I will be happy with either of the two specified options. Obviously option 2 gives a bit more flexibility, but going with option 1 is fine with me as well. I would be comfortable wearing multicam just about anywhere besied an arctic/snow covered region, in which case I would probably be wearing some combination from the grey PCU system anyway.


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## DA SWO (Jul 2, 2012)

Option 2 is stupid and expensive. Let the ACU remain (for now) the garrison uniform with MC the deployable uniform.

The Army (and AF) can not afford to throw all the ACU/ABU patterned gear away. Keep the abominations as garrison uniforms, and slowly evolve to MC.

I also think option 2 is PEO Soldiers way of saying Multi-cam is not a good uniform combination (see we need extra uniforms b/c MC doesn't cut it).


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## SkrewzLoose (Jul 2, 2012)

pardus said:


> I'm interested, what is required of the uniform, What is it intended to do?


Provide us with a bunch of pockets to shove snickers, Monster and pork rinds in...


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## IT101 (Jul 2, 2012)

pardus said:


> I'm interested, what is required of the uniform, What is it intended to do?


This is a slippery slope that won't end well for my attempt at justifying the Navy's choice. Regardless, I have an obligation to answer your inquiry:

It is designed to be more utilitarian during in-port duty than the uniform it replaced. We can shift from various bits of work- i.e. priming/painting, chipping, grinding, maintenance, etc- to watch on short notice, or even walk to one's abode without changing in to civvies. Contrary to what most people decide to believe, and a theory that I fed in to earlier, we're actually not allowed to wear the NWU's underway, so the idea that the NWU's cause us to blend in with the water is a fallacy. Pardon my lack of terminology awareness, but I would liken it to an in-garrison uniform.

It may not seem like a big thing, but it is definitely an upgrade from what we had.

Edit:


SkrewzLoose said:


> Provide us with a bunch of pockets to shove snickers, Monster and pork rinds in...


That too.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jul 2, 2012)

IT101 said:


> ~snip: we're actually not allowed to wear the NWU's underway


I thought that was the CO's discretion.  Is that Navy wide?  I've heard rumors (at this stupid training command, yes I know) that some skippers were making NWU the uniform for being underway/on deployment.  I hope it's a big fat lie, like most other things around here...


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## IT101 (Jul 2, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> I thought that was the CO's discretion. Is that Navy wide? I've heard rumors (at this stupid training command, yes I know) that some skippers were making NWU the uniform for being underway/on deployment. I hope it's a big fat lie, like most other things around here...


They were attempting to make it at the CO's discretion, and I don't know if that ever passed. However, the ubiquitous nature of the coveralls would cause a person wearing NWU's to stand out, and the Navy doesn't like that.


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## AWP (Jul 2, 2012)

The best uniform decision made by the Navy in recent memory was getting Fleet Master Chief Levault off of TV. Rocking a turtleneck under the NWU's with his "scholarly" glasses made me think he was Sandusky's heir apparent.

"Ship, shipmate, self...and bring me your eight year old boys, I'll shower 'em off."


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## goon175 (Jul 2, 2012)

> The Army (and AF) can not afford to throw all the ACU/ABU patterned gear away. Keep the abominations as garrison uniforms, and slowly evolve to MC.


 
I do not support the ACU sticking around any longer than necessary. Cut our losses and just get rid of this abortion of a uniform. I may also go back and photoshop multicam onto any pictures I am in with ACU's on, just to try and erase any of the memories.


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## Spider6 (Jul 2, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Option 2 is stupid and expensive. Let the ACU remain (for now) the garrison uniform with MC the deployable uniform.
> 
> The Army (and AF) can not afford to throw all the ACU/ABU patterned gear away. Keep the abominations as garrison uniforms, and slowly evolve to MC.
> 
> I also think option 2 is PEO Soldiers way of saying Multi-cam is not a good uniform combination (see we need extra uniforms b/c MC doesn't cut it).


 
There was a lot of kicking and screaming when these "abominations" were issued, the rumor at the time was that Big Army new they had an abortion on there hands but as you pointed out they had already ordered so many of them that they just went with it!  That was the rumor any way!



goon175 said:


> I do not support the ACU sticking around any longer than necessary. Cut our losses and just get rid of this abortion of a uniform. I may also go back and photoshop multicam onto any pictures I am in with ACU's on, just to try and erase any of the memories.


 
And roger....I was in a LRS company when we went through the RFI.  The joke at the time was that we would lie on top of each other and pretend to be a pile of gravel.  We got lucky when some Air Cav buddies gave us a lot of old tan flight suits.  Some of us went out and bought the old DCUs.  Then our MI chain of command found out about it and their was much discussion going back and forth.  These were the same guys that required my guys to wear body armor while climbing the mountains in the AO.  Like you said I'll just be happy when their gone!


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## DA SWO (Jul 2, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I do not support the ACU sticking around any longer than necessary. Cut our losses and just get rid of this abortion of a uniform. I may also go back and photoshop multicam onto any pictures I am in with ACU's on, just to try and erase any of the memories.


I agree, but the money spent on ACU shit needs to give some return.
The amount of money spent making ACU packs, etc is huge; we now will spend the same money making MC packs, etc.
I would support a quicker transition if the Army would just go with a solid color for gear (FDE for example).  
I also think recruits and AIT Soldiers can get by with ACU, let them get MC when they report to their first "no-shit" duty station, but that can't fly as someone's feelings would be hurt


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## Salt USMC (Jul 2, 2012)

I remember seeing ACUs for the first time at NTC in 2005.  At the time I thought they looked kinda cool.  Now I realize the error of my ways....


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## goon175 (Jul 2, 2012)

Give'em all to your local 3rd world nations army. win-win.

And then lets all go throw eggs at BG James Moran's house! yeah!


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## 18C4V (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm just tired of carrying one contico that has like BDU's, ACU's, DCU', and MC in it.


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## Spider6 (Jul 2, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Give'em all to your local 3rd world nations army. win-win.
> 
> And then lets all go throw eggs at BG James Moran's house! yeah!


 
The Army does have a program to give a lot of equipment to local law enforcement. Not sure of the name but everything from uniforms to weapons to M113s are provided for law enforcement.

I'm with you get ride of it! There will probably be celebrations in the form of ACU bonfires when the Multi-cam is issued!


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## goon175 (Jul 2, 2012)

In all honesty, when we switch uniforms I will probably just go down to the local paintball club and donate them.

Or, I will just wait for a year after they are no longer authorized for wear. Then I will fit back in nicely when everyone in SOF wants to wear them again....haha


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## pardus (Jul 2, 2012)

IT101 said:


> This is a slippery slope that won't end well for my attempt at justifying the Navy's choice. Regardless, I have an obligation to answer your inquiry.


 
Not at all, that was very enlightening, Thank you. 



SOWT said:


> I agree, but the money spent on ACU shit needs to give some return.
> The amount of money spent making ACU packs, etc is huge; we now will spend the same money making MC packs, etc.
> I would support a quicker transition if the Army would just go with a solid color for gear (FDE for example).
> I also think recruits and AIT Soldiers can get by with ACU, let them get MC when they report to their first "no-shit" duty station, but that can't fly as someone's feelings would be hurt


 
Remember every person that has deployed to A'stan has been issued a new MC ruck and web gear etc... That is all still sitting somewhere.



goon175 said:


> And then lets all go throw eggs at BG James Moran's house! yeah!


 
He's the prick responsible for ACU?


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## goon175 (Jul 2, 2012)

> He's the prick responsible for ACU?


 
Yup.


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## Red Ryder (Jul 4, 2012)

There's a soldier on The Price is Right wearing Multicam, he looks sharp. But I thought it was just authorized for Afghanistan.


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## reed11b (Jul 4, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I don't even know what to do with myself. There is so much common sense flowing that it just blows me away....
> 
> I will be happy with either of the two specified options. Obviously option 2 gives a bit more flexibility, but going with option 1 is fine with me as well. I would be comfortable wearing multicam just about anywhere besied an arctic/snow covered region, in which case I would probably be wearing some combination from the grey PCU system anyway.


 Agree, also, being a former arctic paratrooper, in snow covered regions you were a light outer shell called "over-whites" They work great and are cheap.
Reed


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## Etype (Jul 4, 2012)

This ties in with Lindy's post here where one of the top reasons cited that US troops were wounded is lack of concealment.  It's hard to hide in cook whites.


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## 18C4V (Jul 4, 2012)

Etype said:


> This ties in with Lindy's post here where one of the top reasons cited that US troops were wounded is lack of concealment. It's hard to hide in cook whites.


 
ha ha...cook whites...I haven't heard that term since the BDU days!!!


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## ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 (Jul 4, 2012)

For heavens sake, pick any other camo apart from Multicam! :sick:


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2012)

ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 said:


> For heavens sake, pick any other camo apart from Multicam! :sick:


 
What!? Why?


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2012)

Ah, and why would you like that post but not answer the question???


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## CDG (Jul 4, 2012)

ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 said:


> For heavens sake, pick any other camo apart from Multicam! :sick:


 
I pick AOR2.


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## AWP (Jul 4, 2012)

CDG said:


> I pick AOR2.


 
Crossthread winnah of the day!


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## Etype (Jul 4, 2012)

ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 said:


> For heavens sake, pick any other camo apart from Multicam! :sick:


ACU is perfect.  The only thing better would be if we could put some international orange into it.  Or maybe it could be reversible like a VS-17 panel, orange on one side, pink on the other.


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## Spider6 (Jul 6, 2012)

http://www.stripes.com/news/army/the-military-s-misadventures-in-pixelated-camouflage-1.182240

This article from Stars and Stripes gets a little more technical on the selection process. Towards the end of the article they discuss a pattern that did even better that Multi-cam called the "Syria" print.

I can't help but wonder how much was spent on the "process" itself.


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## Red Ryder (Jul 6, 2012)

Here's a article on the Syrian camo. Looks old school to my civilian eyes but if it ain't broke....

http://soldiersystems.net/2009/09/17/syrian-camo/


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## DA SWO (Jul 6, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> http://www.stripes.com/news/army/the-military-s-misadventures-in-pixelated-camouflage-1.182240
> 
> This article from Stars and Stripes gets a little more technical on the selection process. Towards the end of the article they discuss a pattern that did even better that Multi-cam called the "Syria" print.
> 
> I can't help but wonder how much was spent on the "process" itself.


 
Does the new camo being called Syrian bother anyone but me?


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## Marauder06 (Jul 6, 2012)

La Roux said:


> There's a soldier on The Price is Right wearing Multicam, he looks sharp. But I thought it was just authorized for Afghanistan.


 
Sometimes there's a "time limit," like, "30 days after returning CONUS..."  Or maybe the guy just didn't want to wear a uniform that made him look like a clown ;)


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## Spider6 (Jul 6, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Does the new camo being called Syrian bother anyone but me?


 
It does and not 100% why its called that. But based on what I've read it's actually based on a German marsh desgin from the 1950s.



Marauder06 said:


> Sometimes there's a "time limit," like, "30 days after returning CONUS..." Or maybe the guy just didn't want to wear a uniform that made him look like a clown ;)


 
And roger sir.....during the Intrinsic Action days we wore our DCUs for a little while after we returned. I don't remember how long though.


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## pardus (Jul 6, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> http://www.stripes.com/news/army/the-military-s-misadventures-in-pixelated-camouflage-1.182240
> 
> This article from Stars and Stripes gets a little more technical on the selection process. Towards the end of the article they discuss a pattern that did even better that Multi-cam called the "Syria" print.
> 
> I can't help but wonder how much was spent on the "process" itself.


 

The "Syrian" pattern is an an old German WWII pattern.  (BTW it tested better than UCP/ACU not OCP/multicam)

IIRC the Army earmarked 10 million for the testing phase.

I think the British Denison smock camo is hard to beat...


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## Spider6 (Jul 6, 2012)

They are really talking about this now:

http://www.stripes.com/news/army/the-military-s-misadventures-in-pixelated-camouflage-1.182240

The above link goes into a lot of detail on the selection process.  Got a headache reading this one

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-s-5b-failed-pixelated-uniform-getting-scrapped-1.181435

This one is a little more blunt.



goon175 said:


> Give'em all to your local 3rd world nations army. win-win.
> 
> And then lets all go throw eggs at BG James Moran's house! yeah!


 
More on BG James Moran ret below.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06/24/062412-news-camouflage-fiasco-1-5/

The brigadier general ultimately responsible for the decision, James Moran, who retired from the Army after leaving Program Executive Office Soldier, has not responded to messages seeking comment.


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## Brill (Jul 6, 2012)

Issa should subpoena his ass in front of Congress and compel him to explain.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 9, 2012)

lindy said:


> Issa should subpoena his ass in front of Congress and compel him to explain.


 
If he does that, he should call the SECDEF to Congress and ask why the hell DoD is wasting so much money with every service having a different ground combat uniform.


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## Brill (Jul 9, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> If he does that, he should call the SECDEF to Congress and ask why the hell DoD is wasting so much money with every service having a different ground combat uniform.


 
Everyone is special.


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## Etype (Jul 9, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> If he does that, he should call the SECDEF to Congress and ask why the hell DoD is wasting so much money with every service having a different ground combat uniform.


It shows the ridiculous process used in defense contracting. If they truly did objective tests to find the best item for the job, everyone would be using basically the same thing- the best thing.


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## DA SWO (Jul 9, 2012)

Etype said:


> It shows the ridiculous process used in defense contracting. If they truly did objective tests to find the best item for the job, everyone would be using basically the same thing- the best thing.


But the Marines wouldn't be special.
Remember, we all had common uniforms until the CMC decided to make his "guys" stand out.  
Then the Army, AF, and Navy all had to be special.  ironically, the AF could have kept DCU's and stood out for less then the ABU cost to design/develop.


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## Spider6 (Jul 10, 2012)

http://www.stripes.com/news/no-deci...-camo-uniform-military-officials-say-1.182577

No decision yet on fate of universal camo uniform, military officials say!

Just when I thought things were looking up!

"officials from the Army’s Project Manager, Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment, said in an e-mail Tuesday that pixelated camouflage could be retained — either in its current form or in a new set of colors."


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## DA SWO (Jul 10, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> http://www.stripes.com/news/no-deci...-camo-uniform-military-officials-say-1.182577
> 
> No decision yet on fate of universal camo uniform, military officials say!
> 
> ...


I think the cost of replacing all that equipment will prevent it from happening in the near term.


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## pardus (Jul 10, 2012)

Etype said:


> It shows the ridiculous process used in defense contracting. If they truly did objective tests to find the best item for the job, everyone would be using basically the same thing- the best thing.


 
That could be side stepped by each branch saying they have different jobs and therefore different different camo/uniform requirements.

e.g. The Marines saying they are an expeditionary force that operates primarily within X miles of the coastline, and X % of coasts in the world have XXXX terrain, requiring XXXXX type of camo/uniform, which is different to the Army, who's job/terrain is......


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## AWP (Jul 10, 2012)

The Army should have learned from the Marines and purchased plate carriers and pouches in Coyote or even OD like the Rangers. That way no matter what the color/ pattern du jour you wouldn't have to replace everything OR leave the MULTICAM for the carriers and such and drive one with a different uniform.

FFS, this is a COMBAT unifrom, you don't need to perfectly match like you're going to the prom or some episode of Queer Eye for the Warrior Guy.

"Oh. My. GOD, Sergeant!!!!! Can you believe they want us to wear this multicam with our new pixiliated tan-based, desert-specific, flame-resistant combat uniform thingies?"
"I know, right? I mean...like the fabrics don't even match! 1000D Cordura IOTV with 1000 and 500 Cordura pouches on top of this FR ripstop fabric? We might as well wear horizontal and vertical stripes!"
"Yeth...but at least vertical stripes wouldn't make you look like a member of the "Additonal PT prograaaammmm."
(Pouting)"Its genetics, I can't help it if I'm big-boned."
"There, there, Sergeant, it's alright. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. That was rude of me. Can I make it up to you with a grande double soy latte, half-caff with a skinny cow?"


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## pardus (Jul 10, 2012)

A plane khaki uniform would cover 95% of our options for camo worldwide. Its the single best cam color ever developed.

The Marine's choice of brown and the Ranger's of green highlights that.


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## ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 (Jul 12, 2012)

Instead of spending millions of dollars on some nonsensical research into designing a camouflage pattern for the Army, hold a national design competition involving children to create a new camouflage pattern! :-" 

I am sure some bright/smart child could come up with some great idea and which would probably look tens times better than those who designed the ACU and even the Multicam! Plus, it would probably then save millions of dollars more too at the same time.


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## ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 (Jul 13, 2012)

Have ye ever heard of a joke!?


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jul 13, 2012)

You KNOW when some shit goes down and we're involved in some crazy war in some major urban center that's mostly gray's and such (think NYC) there are gonna be people screaming about our troops needing the old school urban tri color patterns to help them in the fight, or even the Marine urban digi pattern they came up with but never mass produced. Can't WAIT to see the contract wars on that one! Corporate and political money making interests fucking with our national defense continually makes me sick.


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## DA SWO (Jul 13, 2012)

JohnnyBoyUSMC said:


> You KNOW when some shit goes down and we're involved in some crazy war in some major urban center that's mostly gray's and such (think NYC) there are gonna be people screaming about our troops needing the old school urban tri color patterns to help them in the fight, or even the Marine urban digi pattern they came up with but never mass produced. Can't WAIT to see the contract wars on that one! Corporate and political money making interests fucking with our national defense continually makes me sick.


Actually, a series of pattern sitting on the shelf might not be bad.
That way we can have something produced in a relatively short time.
Let everyone train in a uniform and use a different uniform if required (BDU/MC work well in CentAm/SouthAm/Korea, etc)


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## AWP (Jul 13, 2012)

The Army should select this and be done with it:


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## DA SWO (Jul 13, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> The Army should select this and be done with it:


Why?


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## Spider6 (Jul 13, 2012)

or why not this one?

The plot thickens! 

Soldiers Could Go Reptilian with New Camo

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ld-go-reptilian-with-new-camo.html?ESRC=eb.nl

This article was written last month.  Evidently Soldiers are testing this pattern this month.

"The start of the field evaluation comes five months after Army uniform officials announced the finalists that had emerged from the service’s exhaustive Phase IV Camouflage Improvement effort. A handful of vendors were awarded contracts to make camouflage-patterned material for uniforms and equipment. Ultimately, the winner’s pattern could end up replacing the Army’s embattled Universal Camouflage Pattern, known as UCP, which was adopted in 2004."


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## AWP (Jul 13, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Why?


 
Silence all of the haters. It would make PEO Soldier and the fanboys happy, allow everyone with UCP in their closet to have something to match, has OD/ Ranger green, ATACS, Multicam, etc. That's how we should construct our next generation of uniforms and equipment. I think if we add the ABU pattern and at least one of the AOR variants, DOD can go forward with a winner.


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## pardus (Jul 13, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> The Army should select this and be done with it:


 
It needs reflective yellow in there somewhere.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

pardus said:


> It needs reflective yellow in there somewhere.


 
hmmm I think I have clipart for that


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## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

pardus said:


> It needs reflective yellow in there somewhere.


 
Solves multiple problems, FOBBIT NCOICs are happy because it's a reflective belt, and drone "pilots" have their own special badge now.  Win-win.

Plus I get crossthread points.


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## Spider6 (Jul 13, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Solves multiple problems, FOBBIT NCOICs are happy because it's a reflective belt, and drone "pilots" have their own special badge now. Win-win.
> 
> Plus I get crossthread points.
> 
> View attachment 6353


 
LMAO.....this should be worn at all times!  Especially on the tread-mill.  Heaven forbide the power goes out and you fly off.  I would also recommend wearing a bicycle helmet as well!  Water wings are optional of course........


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## SkrewzLoose (Jul 13, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Solves multiple problems, FOBBIT NCOICs are happy because it's a reflective belt, and drone "pilots" have their own special badge now. Win-win.
> 
> Plus I get crossthread points.
> 
> View attachment 6353


Spanish really THAT boring, Sir?


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## racing_kitty (Jul 13, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> ~snip~ Heaven forbide the power goes out and you fly off. ~snip~


 
Power outage?!?!??!!  Hell, if the eye candy's right, the lights can be shining bright as day.  The belt just will call added attention so the others can laugh a... errrm, ummmm, render aid.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Spanish really THAT boring, Sir?


 
:) Spanish is the opposite of boring for me, because realistically it's the only thing standing between me and that degree.  I just don't like doing the work for it.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jul 13, 2012)

Do they allow clip art in your class or is SS the only outlet for your creative endeavors?


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## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Do they allow clip art in your class or is SS the only outlet for your creative endeavors?


 
Right now, I do the following:

1) ride my bike to school (only 5 miles, doesn't take long)
2) read for about 30 minutes before class starts
3) desperately try to keep up with the work in class (doing OK so far)
4) wonder why my teacher reminds me of Sheryl Crow
5) leave school after about 4 hours, pedal home, take the dogs for a walk, do PT, shower, eat lunch, do my work for my other class, and then start focusing on my Spanish work
6) eat dinner, feed the dogs, let them out, back to Spanish
7) go to bed and do it all over again

My wife and kids are on vacation so it's just me in the house, which is kind of nice for studying purposes.  

So yeah, SS is my only creative outlet right now.

It's a lot of work, but I always keep in mind:


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## reed11b (Jul 13, 2012)

racing_kitty said:


> Power outage?!?!??!! Hell, if the eye candy's right, the lights can be shining bright as day. The belt just will call added attention so the others can laugh a... errrm, ummmm, render aid.


Have you caused many of these accidents Mam?
Reed


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 13, 2012)

Not that I know of, no.  However, I have fallen victim, and booooooooy was it hilarious.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 13, 2012)

I thought you were doing an Asian language, Mara?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

SpitfireV said:


> I thought you were doing an Asian language, Mara?


 
I was... :-/


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 13, 2012)

Oooooh. Sometimes it takes a bit of experimenting to find the right language for you.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 13, 2012)

SpitfireV said:


> Oooooh. Sometimes it takes a bit of experimenting to find the right language for you.


 
I was in Korean my first semester here, and it was taking all of my time to stay afloat in that class.  So I dropped it in favor of Spanish.  I'm a semester behind at the moment, which is why I'm in summer school.  It's three hours a day of class, plus a similar amount of homework, but I actually like it better than the 50 minutes a day I had during regular classes.


----------



## LogCinco (Jul 13, 2012)

I was doing simultaneous translation with a Guatemalan the other day.  During a break, I told him "hey dude, your Spanish is getting pretty good."  He didn't see the humor in it, somehow...


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 13, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I was in Korean my first semester here, and it was taking all of my time to stay afloat in that class. So I dropped it in favor of Spanish. I'm a semester behind at the moment, which is why I'm in summer school. It's three hours a day of class, plus a similar amount of homework, but I actually like it better than the 50 minutes a day I had during regular classes.


 
I wish there were more summer papers here, I could have had my degree done by the end of this year...


----------



## Spider6 (Jul 17, 2012)

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/joint_ground_combat_uniform

Getting back on topic. The above article is from the Marine Corps Gazette. The main arguement is there should be a ground combat uniform that is common to all the services.

“Jointness” does not equal sameness. A common GCU will not take away the unique qualities of each Service. A common GCU will improve the survivability of all U.S. ground combat forces. It will also demonstrate a united U.S. military to indigenous populations and the enemy. It will deprive the enemy of an easy means to identify our forces and limit the enemy’s ability to adapt or take advantage of the different Services’ tactics and techniques. Finally, it will save money that can be used in other DoD areas. It should be noted that from the mid-1980s until the introduction of MARPAT in 2002, all Services shared the same combat woodland and desert uniforms without any significant issues. There have been no advantages gained by using seven, instead of two, common uniforms.


----------



## Red-Dot (Jul 18, 2012)

As I understood it, these guys are in the running for the "new" camo pattern....

http://www.kryptek.com/kryptek-camo-patterns/


----------



## surgicalcric (Jul 18, 2012)

Red-Dot said:


> As I understood it, these guys are in the running for the "new" camo pattern....
> 
> http://www.kryptek.com/kryptek-camo-patterns/


 
Kryptek is a great pattern but unfortunately for those who use camo it isnt very garrison-ish and will therefor be passed over for something more traditional.


----------



## goon175 (Jul 18, 2012)

> Kryptek is a great pattern but unfortunately for those who use camo it isnt very garrison-ish and will therefor be passed over for something more traditional.


 
Which is a damn shame. The whole purpose of a utility/field uniform is not to look pretty or traditional, it is to conceal the soldier and enable him to effectively engage the enemy in combat situations. This is why we have the class A or B uniforms - those uniforms are SUPPOSED to look pretty.  But since the utility uniform is now used for everything from combat to funerals, that obviously won't work...


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 18, 2012)

Problem is the FOBBITs and fatties want to look like warriors, and you can't do that in "B's" (or so goes popular opinion).


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 18, 2012)

What's the matter with Multicam?


----------



## Spider6 (Jul 18, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> What's the matter with Multicam?


 
I don't have a clue boss! I think the bulk of the "force" is wondering why we just didn't use multicam or something similiar from the get go!


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 18, 2012)

Spider6 said:


> I don't have a clue boss! I think the bulk of the "force" ios wondering why we just didn't use multicam or something similiar from the get go!


 
Roger.

Some might even wonder why we got away from DCUs and woodland pattern in the first place.


----------



## Spider6 (Jul 18, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Roger.
> 
> Some might even wonder why we got away from DCUs and woodland pattern in the first place.


 
And I'm one of them sir!


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 18, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Roger.
> 
> Some might even wonder why we got away from DCUs and woodland pattern in the first place.


Stupid people in the Pentagon at DA and DAF.


----------



## goon175 (Jul 18, 2012)

I don't have anything against multicam. I just hate the attitude that a uniform meant for the field needs to have the ability to also look good in a garrison environment. It just doesn't make sense.


----------



## CDG (Jul 19, 2012)

goon175 said:


> The whole purpose of a utility/field uniform is not to look pretty or traditional, it is to conceal the soldier and enable him to effectively engage the enemy in combat situations.


 
Combat effectiveness comes a distant second to looking good in garrison and you know it.  So knock off the rabble-rousing.


----------



## goon175 (Jul 19, 2012)

If we have to wear field uniforms for garrison type activities, it should look like the below picture, to include the tomahawk:


​


----------



## surgicalcric (Jul 19, 2012)

Not only do I love the tomahawk but the full color FWS-SSI is awesome.


----------



## Red Ryder (Jul 19, 2012)

^That looks damn sharp. Whats the significance of the tomahawk other then looking bad ass?


----------



## Spider6 (Sep 29, 2012)

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...flage-uniforms.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1

More drama on the ACU.  No doubt you have all heard about the survey that is going around for the ASU.  For some reason I can't open the link!


----------



## AWP (Sep 29, 2012)

La Roux said:


> ^That looks damn sharp. Whats the significance of the tomahawk other then looking bad ass?


 
I have a general rule of thumb (I don't work for the State Department), one I've never had to practice yet I've developed it for just such a scenario:

If I see a guy wearing a tomahawk, I'm not going to ask WHY he is wearing the tomahawk lest I become one of his reasons.


----------



## AWP (Sep 29, 2012)

Arguably one of the more damning paragraphs from Spider's link:



> Marines still wear the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform the service started fielding in June 2002. *The Corps spent $319,000 to develop the MCCCU uniform* -- significantly less than *the Army and Air Force, which spent $3.2 million on the ACU and $3.1 million on the ABU respectively*.


 
Three cheers for PEO Soldier and all involved!

Hip Hip!

(crickets)

Hip Hip!

(crickets)

Well...at least I have chicken.


----------



## goon175 (Sep 29, 2012)

Gen. Moran should be charged criminally.


----------



## Worldweaver (Sep 29, 2012)

La Roux said:


> ^That looks damn sharp. Whats the significance of the tomahawk other then looking bad ass?


Major Rogers' Standing Orders:
1) All Rangers are to be subject to the rules and articles of war; to appear at roll-call every evening, on their own parade, equipped, each with a Firelock, sixty rounds of powder and ball, and a hatchet, at which time an officer from each company is to inspect the same, to see they are in order, so as to be ready on any emergency to march at a minute's warning; and before they are dismissed, the necessary guards are to be draughted, and scouts for the next day appointed.

Not the answer but history is your friend.


----------



## goon175 (Sep 30, 2012)

Or:



> In general, when pushed upon by the enemy, reserve your fire till they approach very near, which will then put them into the greatest surprise and consternation, and give you an opportunity of rushing upon them with your *hatchets* and cutlasses





> to the better advantage.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 30, 2012)

Goddamn that is awesome.


----------



## mike_cos (Sep 30, 2012)

I hate Multicam pattern...


----------



## NeverSayDie (Sep 30, 2012)

Someone please explain to me why each regional command doesnt have the authority to issue whatever combination of uniforms will fit its METTTC dependent needs? Other than the fact that it breaths like bubble wrap in the southern heat and turns yellow like a malaria patient after 6 months ACUs have my vote for general purpose uniform. No sense in wasting more money.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Dec 16, 2012)

I was just notified by a few buddies still in that a MILPER message was recently released authorizing wear for CONUS, is this true?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 16, 2012)

I would LOVE to get out of ACUs, I hope this is true.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 16, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I would LOVE to get out of ACUs, I hope this is true.


Does your wife approve of that statement?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 16, 2012)

She never liked wearing ACUs either


----------



## Grimfury160 (Dec 18, 2012)

My buddies in Regiment have not confirmed this yet, I got others looking into it.
-Word of mouth from a former S-1 buddy the other day.


----------



## Spider6 (Dec 18, 2012)

Grimfury160 said:


> My buddies in Regiment have not confirmed this yet, I got others looking into it.
> -Word of mouth from a former S-1 buddy the other day.


 
I certainly hope its true.  I know a lot of folks are looking forward to a change.  At this point almost any change!


----------



## Rampart (Dec 18, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> She never liked wearing ACUs either


Did you wash your ACU's upon return and  before you dressed her? Nothing like accumulated "Manly odour" to get a girl excited....


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 18, 2012)

They were her own ACUs, and since she never deployed in them I'm sure they were very clean and pleasant-smelling.


----------



## dirtmover (Dec 18, 2012)

As far as I know they haven't started issuing out the multi can to the basic training pvts, usually they start with them.  Back in August we were supposed to get the Multicam/ new uniform but they held off because of fire retardency test, or at least that's what they told us.  I will keep my ear to the ground.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Dec 21, 2012)

dirtmover said:


> As far as I know they haven't started issuing out the multi can to the basic training pvts, usually they start with them. Back in August we were supposed to get the Multicam/ new uniform but they held off because of fire retardency test, or at least that's what they told us. I will keep my ear to the ground.


I heard Defender M squared this away??.........................


----------



## Casimir (Dec 21, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> The Army should have learned from the Marines and purchased plate carriers and pouches in Coyote or even OD like the Rangers. That way no matter what the color/ pattern du jour you wouldn't have to replace everything OR leave the MULTICAM for the carriers and such and drive one with a different uniform.
> 
> FFS, this is a COMBAT unifrom, you don't need to perfectly match like you're going to the prom or some episode of Queer Eye for the Warrior Guy.
> 
> ...


 
I actually laughed my ass off...see...there it goes, down the hall.


----------



## Casimir (Dec 21, 2012)

pardus said:


> It needs reflective yellow in there somewhere.


 
made from recycled pt belts


----------



## Casimir (Dec 21, 2012)

Sorry if you've seen this already, but all this talk about pt belts made me think of this.


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 21, 2012)

Damnit I was just about to post that!!


----------



## Casimir (Dec 21, 2012)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Damnit I was just about to post that!!


lol, ma' bad


----------



## Spider6 (Feb 14, 2013)

Army to Make Camo Pitch to Uniform Board

http://kitup.military.com/2013/02/army-camo-pitch-uniform-board.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=2

Hopefully common sense will arrive soon!  A lot of it has been on backorder for a while!


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 14, 2013)

They could use this to make their case but I hope they don't choose the bunny...


----------



## 8654Maine (Feb 14, 2013)

Where bunny?


----------



## Casimir (Feb 14, 2013)

They would choose bunny because someone on the uniform board would have cadbury as a backer and we'd start seeing creme eggs in mre's


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 14, 2013)

RackMaster said:


> They could use this to make their case but I hope they don't choose the bunny...View attachment 7869


Notice the Multicam/Marpat guys are standing behind foliage, everyone else is in front.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 14, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Notice the Multicam/Marpat guys are standing behind foliage, everyone else is in front.


 
Testing fail!  Guess every one gets the bunny suits.


----------



## 0699 (Feb 15, 2013)

RackMaster said:


> They could use this to make their case but I hope they don't choose the bunny...


 
It's all about the background.  If the environment was different, Multicam wouldn't appear to be the bast choice.  If the photographer used the open ocean instead of grassland for the above picture, then the Navy camo would appear to be the best option. 

Personally, I think we get rid of the whole camoflauge pattern-thing and just go with a solid colored uniform in Coyote Brown or something similar.  Blends into a lot of open environments (except the ocean; see above comment) and in a wooded environment you can hide behind trees and bushes...


----------



## Rampart (Feb 16, 2013)

We have been using Multicam  for a while now. In our area it works well with the variations we encounter provided it is used intelligently. 

The test photo has it's flaws as well as has been mentioned by SOWT. The only way to properly determine what works (photographically) is to have the subjects fully kitted and properly cammed up per SOPs as well as identically posed.Photos do not "see' or show what the eye does however.  Actual eyes of properly operationally experienced FRONT LINE combat troops should be the only judges as to effectiveness and usability of any cam pattern. 

It seems that the simple but important facts are forgotten in these sorts of debates and no one (in the decision making process) appears to understand the limits of camo patterns or want to accept that there will never be a pattern which works effectively in all environments/ conditions. All on this forum know only too well that movement trumps camouflage at any time yet it seems that there are those who expect the opposite. Cam only works when used properly in conjunction with technique,skill and use of cover/ terrain. It is not a magic cure all.
I think it is too easy for some to focus on the pattern and not actually apply skill and training .


----------



## AWP (Feb 16, 2013)

0699 said:


> Personally, I think we get rid of the whole camoflauge pattern-thing and just go with a solid colored uniform in Coyote Brown or something similar. Blends into a lot of open environments (except the ocean; see above comment) and in a wooded environment you can hide behind trees and bushes...


 
That idea, as off-the-wall as it may sound to some, actually has a lot of merit.


----------



## pardus (Feb 16, 2013)

Khaki 





0699 said:


> Personally, I think we get rid of the whole camoflauge pattern-thing and just go with a solid colored uniform in Coyote Brown or something similar. Blends into a lot of open environments (except the ocean; see above comment) and in a wooded environment you can hide behind trees and bushes...


 
I would use khaki.

We were given a lesson on camo during my lead scout's course, they spoke of the laziness in personal camouflage due to the introduction of camo uniforms. Good lesson.


----------



## 0699 (Feb 16, 2013)

pardus said:


> Khaki
> 
> I would use khaki.
> 
> We were given a lesson on camo during my lead scout's course, they spoke of the laziness in personal camouflage due to the introduction of camo uniforms. Good lesson.


 
Khaki, coyote brown, something like that.  We're on the same side of the colour wheel...


----------



## pardus (Feb 16, 2013)

0699 said:


> Khaki, coyote brown, something like that. We're on the same side of the colour wheel...


 
LOL, indeed.

I really don't understand why the Corps went with coyote and the Rangers went with green when khaki is the perfect mix of both and an almost universal camouflage color.


----------



## goon175 (Feb 17, 2013)

It's not just Green...it's RANGER GREEN!!!! hahaha


----------



## AWP (Feb 17, 2013)

pardus said:


> I really don't understand why the Corps went with coyote and the Rangers went with green when khaki is the perfect mix of both and an almost universal camouflage color.


 
Weren't the Rangers fielding Ranger Green before the Corps went with Coyote? So, there's your answer regardless of the timeline, WE HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT!

If I were SECDEF I'd put every service in MARPAT with Ranger Green armor and pouches and tell everyone to GTFOverit.

I have people skills, I should go into HR.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 17, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Weren't the Rangers fielding Ranger Green before the Corps went with Coyote? So, there's your answer regardless of the timeline, WE HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT!
> 
> If I were SECDEF I'd put every service in MARPAT with Ranger Green armor and pouches and tell everyone to GTFOverit.
> 
> I have people skills, I should go into HR.


Agree (orMulticam), except for the armor; I'd stick with FDE or Coyote.


----------



## Grimfury160 (Mar 3, 2013)

My understanding is that due to recent cuts.........................


----------



## Spider6 (Apr 16, 2013)

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...-cammo-pattern.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

Army Leadership Set to Pick New Cammo Pattern

Please dear Lord let there be an end to this.  Word on the street is whatever it is it will be fielded this summer and according to the article the ACU or UCP is gone!


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 16, 2013)

WTF, we're doing this AGAIN??  We're looking at cutting health care and other benefits for servicemembers and we're going to drop how many BILLIONS of dollars on yet ANOTHER cammo pattern?

I feel a letter to my congressman coming on...


----------



## NBC-Guy (Apr 16, 2013)

We should end up with some sweet threads with the repeal of don't ask don't tell.


----------



## reed11b (Apr 16, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> WTF, we're doing this AGAIN?? We're looking at cutting health care and other benefits for servicemembers and we're going to drop how many BILLIONS of dollars on yet ANOTHER cammo pattern?
> 
> I feel a letter to my congressman coming on...


Sorry, I feel not wearing the camo equivalent of hunter orange into combat and a uniform that can last longer than 2 weeks in the field may be important. 
Reed


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 16, 2013)

reed11b said:


> Sorry, I feel not wearing the camo equivalent of hunter orange into combat and a uniform that can last longer than 2 weeks in the field may be important.
> Reed


 
Disagree all you want, we have something that meets the requirements now, now, it's called Multicam.  We had it before, it was BDU and DCU.  We didn't need the ultra-FAIL that was UCP, and we don't need another protracted, expensive, and useless design, testing, and fielding process.  What should happen is someone with some balls should make a decision on what the best standard ground combat uniform is, and EVERYONE gets put in it.


----------



## reed11b (Apr 16, 2013)

I did not realize that another complete round of testing was expected. I thought the article implied that the testing was complete and that the Army was ready to make a decision based on the info they already had. I'm hoping for Multi-cam as well.
Reed


----------



## pardus (Apr 16, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> we don't need another protracted, expensive, and useless design, testing, and fielding process.  .


 


reed11b said:


> I did not realize that another complete round of testing was expected. I thought the article implied that the testing was complete and that the Army was ready to make a decision based on the info they already had. I'm hoping for Multi-cam as well.
> Reed


 
The testing is finished, we are just waiting on a result now. 

it is disgraceful that the Army didnt just make multicam the "new" camo. We've spent how much money equipping troops in A'stan with it?

Any one of the new camo patterns will be OK/good IMO but we shouldn't have gone down this road in the first place. This was the Army being a little bitch after Congress forced them to adopt multicam in A'stan and them sulking and refusing to adopt it universally.  

Fuck the Army leadership.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 16, 2013)

The need a solid color for gear, something that doesn't become obsolete when we get a uniform change.  FDE would be my choice.


----------



## pardus (Apr 16, 2013)

SOWT said:


> The need a solid color for gear, something that doesn't become obsolete when we get a uniform change. FDE would be my choice.


 
FDE is good but it's not a universal color. It's not too effective in a green landscape, Jungle/Europe etc... I've done field testing in the past, and found Khaki is the best choice for a one color for all concept. A mix of brown and green.


----------



## goon175 (Apr 16, 2013)

If the choice is not MultiCam, then I'm just going to laugh and say "yeah, roger, you guys are really concerned about money and sequestration"

It is stuff like this that half tempts me to run for congressional office, just so I can call one of these ass hats to a hearing, put them under oath, on CSPAN, and ask them "what in the hell are you thinking?". 

Also, Gen. Moran (signed off on ACU's when he was in charge of PEO soldier) should be brought up on criminal charges. 

Also, the stupidity is not just in the Army, some folks in charge of the USMC recently told congress that there is no point in cutting the weight of gear because the grunts will just replace that weight with more food and water. Are you fuckin' kidding me? You carry what you need to carry for food and water. If my gear weighs less, I'm not going to say "gee, lets throw 3 more blue berry poptarts on my kit and add an extra camel bak".


----------



## pardus (Apr 16, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Also, Gen. Moran (signed off on ACU's when he was in charge of PEO soldier) should be brought up on criminal charges.


 
If you look up the word "cunt" in the Pardus Unabridged Dictionary you'll see a picture of Gen Moron. (name spelling has been corrected for accuracy).


----------



## AWP (Apr 16, 2013)

pardus said:


> the Pardus Unabridged Dictionary


 
Ah, you mean a "picture book."


----------



## reed11b (Apr 17, 2013)

goon175 said:


> If the choice is not MultiCam, then I'm just going to laugh and say "yeah, roger, you guys are really concerned about money and sequestration"
> 
> It is stuff like this that half tempts me to run for congressional office, just so I can call one of these ass hats to a hearing, put them under oath, on CSPAN, and ask them "what in the hell are you thinking?".
> 
> ...


http://terminallance.com/2012/08/24/terminal-lance-220-issued/
Reed


----------



## pardus (Apr 17, 2013)

reed11b said:


> http://terminallance.com/2012/08/24/terminal-lance-220-issued/
> Reed


 
Honestly If I had my way I'd go back to my roots and ditch the armor and the helmet.


----------



## Etype (Apr 17, 2013)

There's no sense in spending gov't money on R&D when the cream has already risen to the top in the civilian market.


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 17, 2013)

pardus said:


> Honestly If I had my way I'd go back to my roots and ditch the armor and the helmet.


 
I thought much the same way as you do, until I stepped on an IED.  I really wish I had been wearing protective undergarments...


----------



## pardus (Apr 17, 2013)

surgicalcric said:


> I thought much the same way as you do, until I stepped on an IED. I really wish I had been wearing protective undergarments...


 
That has certainly made me re-think things.


----------



## Spider6 (Apr 17, 2013)

I haven't seen it online yet.  But the hard copy Army Times on page 16 is reporting "NEW CAMO COMING:  Woodland, Desert and Transitional.


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 17, 2013)

pardus said:


> That has certainly made me re-think things.


 
Me too Brother.

I have been rather cavalier with the wear, or lack thereof, of more restrictive armor and usually wore little more than a medium plate carrier and a cutout helmet.  However after getting my "junk" rearranged and dealing with the emotional and physical pain of that I assure you the PUGs (Protective Under Garments) are more than worth the little bit of discomfort they cause from friction from time to time...

Something to think about for you guys who have them but dont wear them...


----------



## 0699 (Apr 17, 2013)

SOWT said:


> The need a solid color for gear, something that doesn't become obsolete when we get a uniform change. FDE would be my choice.





pardus said:


> FDE is good but it's not a universal color. It's not too effective in a green landscape, Jungle/Europe etc... I've done field testing in the past, and found Khaki is the best choice for a one color for all concept. A mix of brown and green.


 
Pardus and I have had this discussion before.  I agree that some shade of brown would be the best bet.  Hell, I'd argue that if we picked the right color we could use it for the uniform too.



goon175 said:


> If the choice is not MultiCam, then I'm just going to laugh and say "yeah, roger, you guys are really concerned about money and sequestration"
> 
> It is stuff like this that half tempts me to run for congressional office, just so I can call one of these ass hats to a hearing, put them under oath, on CSPAN, and ask them "what in the hell are you thinking?".
> 
> ...


 
I guess PCIs and PCCs are a thing of the past?  Probably to "old-school" for the new generations... :-/


----------



## goon175 (Apr 17, 2013)

> I guess PCIs and PCCs are a thing of the past? Probably to "old-school" for the new generations... :-/


 
I don't understand how that relates to what I said?


----------



## 0699 (Apr 17, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I don't understand how that relates to what I said?


 
It wasn't a slam on you, but on the quote.  If they think Marines are going to take stuff they don't need, PCIs and PCCs should solve that problem.


----------



## goon175 (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh I didn't think it was a slam, I just thought I was missing something and felt stoopid! haha


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 17, 2013)

0699 said:


> <<SNIP>>


 
I say we go back to the OD jungle fatigues of the Vietnam era.


----------



## pardus (Apr 17, 2013)

surgicalcric said:


> I say we go back to the OD jungle fatigues of the Vietnam era.


 
They did the job.


----------



## Etype (Apr 17, 2013)

Having good pockets is really an asset.  Anyone who's worn Crye, Dry Fire, or Patagonia uniforms knows this.  When (like in combat) you have to carry all kinds of little shit that doesn't necessarily warrant a pouch, good pocket design really comes through.  The same is true for material.  The army issue stuff is terrible against your skin in hot weather- Crye and Patagonia stuff can be worn without an underdshirt/underwear no problem.

I'd take a uniform with a lesser camo  pattern with well designed pockets and good material  over a great camo pattern with shitty pockets or bad material.


----------



## pardus (Apr 17, 2013)

Etype said:


> Having good pockets is really an asset. Anyone who's worn Crye, Dry Fire, or Patagonia uniforms knows this. When (like in combat) you have to carry all kinds of little shit that doesn't necessarily warrant a pouch, good pocket design really comes through. The same is true for material. The army issue stuff is terrible against your skin in hot weather- Crye and Patagonia stuff can be worn without an underdshirt/underwear no problem.
> 
> I'd take a uniform with a lesser camo pattern with well designed pockets and good material over a great camo pattern with shitty pockets or bad material.


 
My old NZ Army uniform was 100% cotton IIRC, no t-shirt underneath the shirt, very comfy, very rugged.
Hell I still have OD shirts in great condition that I was issued in 1989.


----------



## goon175 (Apr 18, 2013)

The Crye Precision uniform was so F'ing comfortable I would have worn it for pajamas at home. I thought having material that came up in the back with a mesh gusset for breathability was the most genius thing I had ever seen in my life.


----------



## LogCinco (Apr 18, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> WTF, we're doing this AGAIN?? We're looking at cutting health care and other benefits for servicemembers and we're going to drop how many BILLIONS of dollars on yet ANOTHER cammo pattern?
> 
> I feel a letter to my congressman coming on...


 
THAT will certainly get their attention... "Criminy!  A citizen wrote me a letter!  Let me stop my fundraising and reflect on the leadership failure I am actively embracing!!"


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## Spider6 (May 7, 2013)

Army Chief Says New Camouflage Coming
http://kitup.military.com/2013/05/army-chief-camouflage-coming.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=2

Same thing as last time.  He did say that the ACU is the wrong color and the wrong pattern.


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## pardus (May 7, 2013)

Oh for fucksake! Just tell what the fuck it is going to be already!


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## DA SWO (May 7, 2013)

Bad news, we can't afford new uniforms.

The GO that gave us ACU should be publically demoted for incompetence.


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## pardus (May 7, 2013)

SOWT said:


> The GO that gave us ACU should be publically demoted for incompetence.


 
Retired, and sucking up more of our tax money IIRC.


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## AWP (May 7, 2013)

The only thing to last longer and incur more FAIL is OEF-A...


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## goon175 (May 7, 2013)

Gen. Moran should be brought up on criminal charges.


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## pardus (May 7, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> The only thing to last longer and incur more FAIL is OEF-A... a Mara case study...


 
Agreed!


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## Spider6 (May 8, 2013)

pardus said:


> Oh for fucksake! Just tell what the fuck it is going to be already!


 
AMEN


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## AWP (May 9, 2013)

The Washington Post gets involved in the uniform fray.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f2fe4e-b67c-11e2-bd07-b6e0e6152528_story.html



> In 2002, the U.S. military had just two kinds of camouflage uniforms. One was green, for the woods. The other was brown, for the desert.
> Then things got strange.


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## Spider6 (May 9, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> The Washington Post gets involved in the uniform fray.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f2fe4e-b67c-11e2-bd07-b6e0e6152528_story.html


 
Pretty good article...thanks.  I will repeat what PARDUS said "Oh for fucksake! Just tell what the fuck it is going to be already!"


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## Marauder06 (May 9, 2013)

The failtrain just keeps on rolling...

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/us-m...government-duplication-at-its-finest-1.220118




> In 2002, the U.S. military had just two kinds of camouflage uniform. One was green, for the woods. The other was brown, for the desert.
> 
> Then things got strange.
> 
> ...


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## AWP (May 9, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> The failtrain just keeps on rolling...
> 
> http://www.stripes.com/news/us/us-m...government-duplication-at-its-finest-1.220118


 
Hmm...that reads like the article I posted. Oh well.

Choo Choo!


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## SpitfireV (May 9, 2013)

Maybe someone has been doing a marketing 111 paper and is trying to build up the anticipation...


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## Spider6 (Jun 6, 2013)

Here we go again!  If I recall correctly in the late 90s everyone worn the woodlard camoflage in garrison then we were issued DCUs for Intrinsic Action.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...-camo-patterns.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1


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## Rexus (Jun 6, 2013)

From a civilian stand point I never understood the need for each branch to have a distinctive camouflage. Wouldn't it be simpler to teach a class on sprucing up a poncho/ blanket with twigs?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jun 6, 2013)

Just bring back the Olive Drab. 

There are a couple of recent posts on here showing how nice it looks.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 6, 2013)

Spider6 said:


> Here we go again! If I recall correctly in the late 90s everyone worn the woodlard camoflage in garrison then we were issued DCUs for Intrinsic Action.
> 
> http://www.military.com/daily-news/...-camo-patterns.html?comp=1198882887570&rank=1


 


> A Congressional committee voted Wednesday to end service-specific camouflage in an amendment that would push the military toward creating joint combat uniforms by 2018.


FINALLY.  SECDEF(s) should have taken care of this issue a loooong time ago.  Maybe they can make the Army finally give up that ridiculous black "no one wears it unless they make us" beret.


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## pardus (Jun 6, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Wouldn't it be simpler to teach a class on sprucing up a poncho/ blanket with twigs?


 
What?


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## Rexus (Jun 6, 2013)

pardus said:


> What?


Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


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## Short Round (Jun 6, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


 
:wall:


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## pardus (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


 
Is that what worked for you on xbox?


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


 
Uniform-based camouflage is designed to break up the shape of the human body.  It does this by conforming coloration with the surrounding backgrounds. This concealment can only take you so far, which is why for further camouflage you use ghillie suits, twigs, and leaves to supplement your uniforms camouflage.

Digital design camouflage does actually work, it buggers with how the human eye sees things. Unfortunately, there's a retired general officer with a fat check from being a camouflage consultant now who rode the army into a fucked up coloration scheme.







ACU pattern isn't bad. It works even better when dyed appropriate colors instead of shitty greens and greys that are rarely found in nature. There is no one solution fits all for camouflage, even Multicam balks at jungle/woodland/arctic terrain.

I would highly recommend not trying to make any suggestions as to how to properly camouflage soldiers until you have some actual first hand experience with the tactical requirements of camouflage and how to achieve them... ie, some time in some boots.


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## MOTOMETO (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


 
They see me trolling, they hating....


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## pardus (Jun 7, 2013)

Ranger Psych said:


> Entire post.


 
Excellent post!


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## Rexus (Jun 7, 2013)

Ranger Psych thank you for answering my question. I asked this question seriously so that i could get a serious answer so again thank you for explaining.


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## MOTOMETO (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Ranger Psych thank you for answering my question. I asked this question seriously so that i could get a serious answer so again thank you for explaining.


 
You did ask a question, but then you threw in your .02 cents when it wasnt needed.


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## Rexus (Jun 7, 2013)

MOTOMETO said:


> You did ask a question, but then you threw in your .02 cents when it wasnt needed.


 
I'll remember to stick to just things I know in the future.


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## pardus (Jun 7, 2013)

MOTOMETO said:


> You did ask a question, but then you threw in your .02 cents when it wasnt needed.


 
Exactly.



Rexus said:


> Ranger Psych thank you for answering my question. I asked this question seriously so that i could get a serious answer so again thank you for explaining.


 
Tread carefully. You're coming off like a smartass trying to back an unsupportable position, based on ignorance of the subject. You will get slammed hard if you continue like this. Know your place. Learn.


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## pardus (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> I'll remember to stick to just things I know in the future.


 
Good.


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## Rexus (Jun 7, 2013)

pardus said:


> \Tread carefully. You're coming off like a smartass trying to back an unsupportable position, based on ignorance of the subject. You will get slammed hard if you continue like this. Know your place. Learn.


 
I really appreciate that the people on this site are more than willing to call me out on any crap i write, so that i learn not to to be a complete idiot.


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## pardus (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> I really appreciate that the people on this site are more than willing to call me out on any crap i write, so that i learn not to to be a complete idiot.


 
Good reply.


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## Red-Dot (Jun 7, 2013)

Rexus said:


> Isn't the point of camouflage to break up the shape of the human body? Instead of spending millions on something that only blends with gravel, they could throw on a poncho, blanket, or ghillie suit to break up their profile, then add a few twigs and leaves to further break up their shape.


 
In my best "Old School" voice....You're... you're crazy, man. I like you, but you're crazy.


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## RackMaster (Jun 14, 2013)

Speaking of camo...  I guess the new version is out; the tutu must be for pattern disruption.


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