# College Teaches Anxious Students Not to See Failure as 'Catastrophic'



## BloodStripe (Sep 6, 2016)

University offers "adulting" program to teach students to cope

" A2015 survey from the Center for Collegiate Mental Health at Penn State revealed that half of all students who visit the counseling services at the nation's colleges are experiencing anxiety.

Some say this generation of college students is having a difficult time "adulting" — a slang term for behaving like a responsible adult."

Holy. Fuck.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 6, 2016)

People should know failure isn't catastrophic. Failure is a learning experience that molds us into who we will become. Kids who have never lost, or have been decent at something their whole lives may have never had to deal with adversity before. 

The first time you realize something isn't for you, it can be fucking traumatizing. Maybe that is the medical degree you think you are smart enough to get, maybe it is BUD/S, or that Spanish Minor, or the Green Beret. I'm sure lots of folks in the military who quit or fail have pretty legit depression and anxiety both before during and after events. 

Cue people who pretend they have never failed at anything talking about how today's kids are a bunch of pussy ass bitches.


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## Il Duce (Sep 6, 2016)

Sounds very similar to the mandatory resiliency training the Army has instituted the last few years.


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 6, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> University offers "adulting" program to teach students to cope
> 
> " A2015 survey from the Center for Collegiate Mental Health at Penn State revealed that half of all students who visit the counseling services at the nation's colleges are experiencing anxiety.
> 
> ...



I guess I got it all wrong. I was given things to do that increased my knowledge base, and it was broad. Later on, I was required to use the information to think, and find answers on my own.  Coping never came up, and those who were just coping did not last out the year; most just a few months. Imagine a surgeon grouping about in your belly, and coping with the problems-V-a surgical repair. 

I hate the "adulting" phrase for growing the hell up.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 6, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> People should know failure isn't catastrophic. Failure is a learning experience that molds us into who we will become. Kids who have never lost, or have been decent at something their whole lives may have never had to deal with adversity before.
> 
> The first time you realize something isn't for you, it can be fucking traumatizing. Maybe that is the medical degree you think you are smart enough to get, maybe it is BUD/S, or that Spanish Minor, or the Green Beret. I'm sure lots of folks in the military who quit or fail have pretty legit depression and anxiety both before during and after events.
> 
> Cue people who pretend they have never failed at anything talking about how today's kids are a bunch of pussy ass bitches.



I thought the failure and the emotional and psychological woes that follow, was the learning experince?

Everyone has failed, the problem that I see is a lot of people (kids, younger adults) just blow it off, until it hits them square in the teeth and nobody is their to save them from their failures. Normally in taking out stupid amounts of college loans and partying with it, or choosing stupid careers that pay shit, or buying stupid expensive shit they can't afford, living outside of their means, etc. 

I think most of us have done something to that degree, but didn't have a coping class, learned our lesson in life and moved on choosing to not make the same mistakes.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 6, 2016)

@Diamondback 2/2 You never had people wiser than you talk to you about your failure and how to move forward? Pretending as if a class is that much different than sergeants time or some good old fashioned ass-chewing is choosing to ignore reality.

Student loans for parties? Do you know how student loans work? Many are paid directly to the institution. You can go ahead and blame kids for making poor choices, but I think I can drive around any base in America and see just as many poor choices. I have been to Secrets enough times to see what 20 year old dudes will do with a paycheck, no matter the source.

The student loan thing is so silly to me. Education is expensive. It is expensive to go to trade schools, it is even more expensive when shitty schools like ITT tech are charging 20+K for an associates. Places like that are driving student loan debt more than partying 19 year olds...


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## Devildoc (Sep 6, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> People should know failure isn't catastrophic. Failure is a learning experience that molds us into who we will become. Kids who have never lost, or have been decent at something their whole lives may have never had to deal with adversity before.
> 
> The first time you realize something isn't for you, it can be fucking traumatizing. Maybe that is the medical degree you think you are smart enough to get, maybe it is BUD/S, or that Spanish Minor, or the Green Beret. I'm sure lots of folks in the military who quit or fail have pretty legit depression and anxiety both before during and after events.
> 
> Cue people who pretend they have never failed at anything talking about how today's kids are a bunch of pussy ass bitches.



I have learned far more from failing than I ever have being successful.


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## policemedic (Sep 6, 2016)

Il Duce said:


> Sounds very similar to the mandatory resiliency training the Army has instituted the last few years.



Which coincidentally is run by another university with Penn in the name.


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## DocIllinois (Sep 6, 2016)

I loved the anxious folks in college, especially the ones afraid to fail.  This attitude was often a barrier to efficient learning, which kept them away from me grades and leadership-wise.

This kind of anxiety manifests itself in a similar way in my peers post-college, except the prices paid can be higher when they're in a profession with actual competition.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 7, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I guess I got it all wrong. I was given things to do that increased my knowledge base, and it was broad. Later on, I was required to use the information to think, and find answers on my own.  Coping never came up, and those who were just coping did not last out the year; most just a few months. Imagine a surgeon grouping about in your belly, and coping with the problems-V-a surgical repair.
> 
> I hate the "adulting" phrase for growing the hell up.



I think you are missing the point. These classes are for young men and women initially on their own, away from established support structures possibly facing adversity for the first time on their own. Comparing that to a surgeon, who has obviously moved passed those initial obstacles is looking over the point. You learn coping early in life through failures, however some kids simply don't have those failures until later. It isn't weakness, it is that they are behind because our culture and society allow for it. They have to learn tbose skills later.

It is good you never had to have any help learning how to cope, but certain generations of parents have kinda fucked up the newest generation of college aged kids. They did things like remove losing from formative sports, they helicoptered around their kids, and they refused to allow their kids exposure to things that made them uncomfortable. The funny thing is those people are often the ones bemoaning our college age generation as being weak or whatever the hell they say.


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 7, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I think you are missing the point. These classes are for young men and women initially on their own, away from established support structures possibly facing adversity for the first time on their own. Comparing that to a surgeon, who has obviously moved passed those initial obstacles is looking over the point. You learn coping early in life through failures, however some kids simply don't have those failures until later. It isn't weakness, it is that they are behind because our culture and society allow for it. They have to learn tbose skills later.
> 
> It is good you never had to have any help learning how to cope, but certain generations of parents have kinda fucked up the newest generation of college aged kids. They did things like remove losing from formative sports, they helicoptered around their kids, and they refused to allow their kids exposure to things that made them uncomfortable. The funny thing is those people are often the ones bemoaning our college age generation as being weak or whatever the hell they say.




I can see your point, and the leap to surgery was a bit over the top; my apologies. When I was growing up, single parent families were pretty rare. Today the world is different, and the guidance has to come from somewhere. My daughter is a Special Ed Teacher, and it is eye opening  just how many kids are relying on schools for even a breakfast. 

I guess I was expecting that at the end of high school that the pathway to adult hood had already been opened up. It looks like that is not the case today. 

You are right, since the students are entering undergrad with a limited idea of what is expected from adults, it has to come from somewhere. The next chance for that has to be in college. I am wondering about vocational schools, and how they are looking at the problem. Vocational schools are generally goal specific, and the same problem "adulting" will show up there too. 

I can't help but think that poor parenting skills, and fragmented family lives run very deep in today's society.

Thanks for your Insight @TLDR20.


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## Lefty375 (Sep 7, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I thought the failure and the emotional and psychological woes that follow, was the learning experince?
> 
> Everyone has failed, the problem that I see is a lot of people (kids, younger adults) just blow it off, until it hits them square in the teeth and nobody is their to save them from their failures. Normally in taking out stupid amounts of college loans and partying with it, or choosing stupid careers that pay shit, or buying stupid expensive shit they can't afford, living outside of their means, etc.
> 
> I think most of us have done something to that degree, but didn't have a coping class, learned our lesson in life and moved on choosing to not make the same mistakes.



There are high stakes at play, even higher than previous times I would say. My school currently has a lot of young adults (18-22) who have been almost crafted to being leaders in their future respective fields. There are some from different countries who have families depending on them to succeed. They are the top 5% or so of students in the world, and there is enormous pressure from everywhere. Seriously, many have never gotten a B and they break down when they come here and get one. 

It seems silly to some of us, but I don't view them as "weak". With college costs rising, being away from home, and fear of failure looming over in a highly competitive environment it's great they are talking to someone about problems. Every day I look at other forums full of veterans, venting over the internet and keeping everything inside. Doesn't seem to help at all.

School just started but, talking to my other freshman classmates has shown me that they really are amazing people. They had the drive and stress management to make it to a school that accepted around 2,000 out of 20,000 applications. They just don't know it yet, which is a message I try to communicate with them. It's really easy to shit on students for being weak, but not many of us made it to top 25 schools at the age of 18.


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## DocIllinois (Sep 7, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I can see your point, and the leap to surgery was a bit over the top; my apologies. When I was growing up, single parent families were pretty rare. Today the world is different, and the guidance has to come from somewhere. My daughter is a Special Ed Teacher, and it is eye opening  just how many kids are relying on schools for even a breakfast.
> 
> I guess I was expecting that at the end of high school that the pathway to adult hood had already been opened up. It looks like that is not the case today.
> 
> ...



At a certain point, the difficulties in learning, "anxiety" and inappropriate social behavior which results from poor parenting will be too far ingrained for schools to "teach" these types of things.  They mostly result from firm and fair behavioral and thinking expectations not being imposed much earlier in life.

Besides, unless we're talking military boarding school or something, it really isn't the job of schools to be the primary "teachers" of this kind of stuff.

Society's expectations for how to behave and think reasonably don't just go away because lots of parents fail their children while raising them, IMO.  The kids are the ones who pay the price.


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## AWP (Sep 7, 2016)

College students who can't "adult" aren't the fault of the college, but of the other "adults" in those students' lives. Someone failed them long before the Freshman year of college.


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## policemedic (Sep 7, 2016)

The lack of coping mechanisms often results in a frighteningly high number of (sometimes successful) suicide attempts amongst college students.  This is true of all year levels, though I think it becomes a bit less likely in graduate school. 

I've spoken to some other members here about this.  I think it's more likely at high stress,  high expectation schools but it's also kind of a dirty secret and quantifying the phenomenon is difficult.


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## BloodStripe (Sep 7, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> College students who can't "adult" aren't the fault of the college, but of the other "adults" in those students' lives. Someone failed them long before the Freshman year of college.



This. They are the product of the, "everyone gets a ribbon" generation.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lefty375 said:


> There are high stakes at play, even higher than previous times I would say. My school currently has a lot of young adults (18-22) who have been almost crafted to being leaders in their future respective fields. There are some from different countries who have families depending on them to succeed. They are the top 5% or so of students in the world, and there is enormous pressure from everywhere. Seriously, many have never gotten a B and they break down when they come here and get one.
> 
> It seems silly to some of us, but I don't view them as "weak". With college costs rising, being away from home, and fear of failure looming over in a highly competitive environment it's great they are talking to someone about problems. Every day I look at other forums full of veterans, venting over the internet and keeping everything inside. Doesn't seem to help at all.
> 
> School just started but, talking to my other freshman classmates has shown me that they really are amazing people. They had the drive and stress management to make it to a school that accepted around 2,000 out of 20,000 applications. They just don't know it yet, which is a message I try to communicate with them. It's really easy to shit on students for being weak, but not many of us made it to top 25 schools at the age of 18.



I'm not at such a highly competitive school, but I am in a very competitive major, some students go into absolute freak out mode before exams. You know who else did that? E-7's in CTM in SOCM or before other high stress events in SFMS. I got out most of my stress then, so I have little anxiety in college. 

The every child gets a ribbon mentality is a byproduct of multiple generations(starting with everyone's favorite). People shit on millenials but they aren't the ones who fucked everything up.


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## Devildoc (Sep 7, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I'm not at such a highly competitive school, but I am in a very competitive major, some students go into absolute freak out mode before exams. You know who else did that? E-7's in CTM in SOCM or before other high stress events in SFMS. I got out most of my stress then, so I have little anxiety in college.
> 
> The every child gets a ribbon mentality is a byproduct of multiple generations(starting with everyone's favorite). People shit on millenials but they aren't the ones who fucked everything up.



I think it's a cop out to just shit on Millennials.  After all, they bore the brunt of signing on the dotted line after 9/11, so the entire generation cannot be vacuous and vapid.

That said, for better or worse it IS the generation that has seen the highest degree of entitlement (except for maybe the Boomers).  That mixed with having faces buried in electronics and drama played out on social media combined with helicopter parenting, that's all a recipe for...not success.

I also agree that stress, and dealing with it, is relative.  You exercised your demons in SFMS or the Q, I did some in the Navy, but more so learned how to handle it being a son of a single parent (dad died when I was 8) with little income, being a latchkey kid, living on beans. I am not bemoaning my childhood, as the wise old philosopher Jimmy Buffett said, "some of it's magic, and some if it's tragic, but I've had a good life all the way."  But I learned early on how to be successful while being under stress.

I wonder, and I am just throwing this out, is that part of the problem with these can't-fail-at-any-cost kids have been inundated so often being told how good they are and how special they are that their identity is wrapped up in that "thing."  To have an identity that is attached to a "what" (Doctor, SEAL, Green Beret) and not a "who" (solid, moral, ethical man or woman) is going to lead one to have a very shaky foundation.


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## Northerner1012 (Sep 7, 2016)

By removing the aspect of failing in a positive light, we are breeding a mentality that is extremely dangerous. One that lacks the drive for innovation and success. I want to know about a person who has ever done something extraordinary in his/her life and did so without an iota of failure. It sucks. It feels like the world is ending, but that is how we grow from it. Teaching a class to cope with failure possibly is the wrong way to approach it. Teaching a class that shows kids how to fail and grow from it should be what's happening. In my limited experience, coping is the same as just dealing with something without the learning aspect involved.


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## DocIllinois (Sep 7, 2016)

FWIW, from the perspective of an employer, I couldn't care less about who didn't do what for you as a kid.  

Or what anxiety excuse you have for not learning at an acceptable rate, not using your time to produce, your hurt feelings after being given constructive guidance, reacting badly when things are expected of you, etc.

If you consistently exhibit any of that, you're shit, so hit the bricks.


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## Isiah6:8 (Sep 7, 2016)

DocIllinois said:


> FWIW, from the perspective of an employer, you either do or you don't.



FTFY


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## Gunz (Sep 7, 2016)

Maybe it's just me, having put two boys through college in recent years and the youngest now a sophomore at FSU, but the young men and women I've been meeting--through them--have greatly impressed me. I wonder if the PhD headshrinkers are over analyzing things in this politically correct/trigger warning environment.


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## Lefty375 (Sep 7, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Maybe it's just me, having put two boys through college in recent years and the youngest now a sophomore at FSU, but the young men and women I've been meeting--through them--have greatly impressed me. I wonder if the PhD headshrinkers are over analyzing things in this politically correct/trigger warning environment.



More like facebook outrage/"I'm offended they offer this" culture. Wall Street and Top 500 companies seem to have no trouble recruiting enough young people, oddly enough.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lefty375 said:


> More like facebook outrage/"I'm offended they offer this" culture. Wall Street and Top 500 companies seem to have no trouble recruiting enough young people, oddly enough.



This!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 7, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> @Diamondback 2/2 You never had people wiser than you talk to you about your failure and how to move forward? Pretending as if a class is that much different than sergeants time or some good old fashioned ass-chewing is choosing to ignore reality.
> 
> Student loans for parties? Do you know how student loans work? Many are paid directly to the institution. You can go ahead and blame kids for making poor choices, but I think I can drive around any base in America and see just as many poor choices. I have been to Secrets enough times to see what 20 year old dudes will do with a paycheck, no matter the source.
> 
> The student loan thing is so silly to me. Education is expensive. It is expensive to go to trade schools, it is even more expensive when shitty schools like ITT tech are charging 20+K for an associates. Places like that are driving student loan debt more than partying 19 year olds...



Are you serious,  people need a class to get their butt chewed? I could teach that class, professor asshole lectures in 5.

Yes I know how student loans work, and no they are not all paid directly to the schools and yes many students take loans for living expenses and yes going out and partying with their new found freedom away from home. Yes they spend and live outside of their means, and yes it is nobody fault but their own. They made a choice, they have to live with that choice. I watched my wife do it when we were dating, I watched my brother do it for 6 years. I see it every time I'm in a bar and some dumbass college kid want to shoot a tray of shots with every dickhead in the bar.

I think it's silly that kids nowadays need a class to be told they fucked up, pick yourself up, dust off and move forward.  It ain't rocket doctor shit, been doing it my whole life, just like everyone else. They don't need a class, they need a swift kick in the ass. That's what parents,  teachers, coaches, policemen, bosses and Sergeants do. No class, just a sideline "hey you fucked up, fix it and move on".

But anyway, I'm glad these kids are getting something where everyone else is failing them, when they fail...lol


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## Marauder06 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lefty375 said:


> ... Wall Street and Top 500 companies seem to have no trouble recruiting enough young people, oddly enough.



All of those firms are going to hire "someone."  Whether it's schools, private sector, or the military, just about everyone has a hiring mission to meet.  The question is, what quality are those "someones?"  Are they better or worse than those who came before?  I don't know the answer to that because I don't think I've ever seen any studies focused on that question.  I do think I read a Marine Corps report claiming the quality of the officers' corps in that branch has been on the decline in recent years (fact check?).


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## Isiah6:8 (Sep 8, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> All of those firms are going to hire "someone."



I would say that the starting candidate comes to the street with more tools to be successful than the prior.  However, their ability to apply what they learned in school to the real world will be the ultimate judge.  While they will always hire "someone" at some point, firms today are more comfortable running lean until the right person comes in.  Rather work with a small amount of people who carry their weight than a bunch of assholes who do nothing.


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## Devildoc (Sep 8, 2016)

Isiah6:8 said:


> I would say that the starting candidate comes to the street with more tools to be successful than the prior.  However, their ability to apply what they learned in school to the real world will be the ultimate judge.  While they will always hire "someone" at some point, firms today are more comfortable running lean until the right person comes in.  Rather work with a small amount of people who carry their weight than a bunch of assholes who do nothing.



I don't know if they come with more tools, just different tools.  It is true that places hire "for fit" and would rather run lean.  Well, at least in the hospital/nursing world.


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## Isiah6:8 (Sep 8, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> I don't know if they come with more tools, just different tools.  It is true that places hire "for fit" and would rather run lean.  Well, at least in the hospital/nursing world.



I should have been more specific because my comments relate to finance and Wall Street.  At the firms I have worked at we have always been hiring for fit.  There isn't much room for error given how difficult the business is already and the quantities people are in charge of.  I understand that is a biased view, but across the street we are seeing and hearing the same things currently


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## Devildoc (Sep 8, 2016)

Isiah6:8 said:


> I should have been more specific because my comments relate to finance and Wall Street.  At the firms I have worked at we have always been hiring for fit.  There isn't much room for error given how difficult the business is already and the quantities people are in charge of.  I understand that is a biased view, but across the street we are seeing and hearing the same things currently



In a disastrous stint as a nurse manager of a surgery-trauma ICU I hired for fit.  A good team can make up for _some_ understaffing, run more efficiently, and produce better patient outcomes.

In fact, I believed in hiring for fit so much I had a motivational poster in my office which quoted Col. Charlie Beckwith that said  "I'd rather go down the river with seven studs than with a hundred shitheads".


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## Phoenix (Sep 8, 2016)

Well, I have been on both sides of the coin. IMHO, growing up with everything handed to you because of who your parents are, etc. and then having absolutely everything taken away from you and thrown out into the cold may seem extreme to some, however, I would disagree. It taught me how to be a human being, humility, honesty, respect, direction for righteous rage, focus during the storm, and an iron bound will to win the right way at any cost. It also taught me to appreciate what I do EARN from my efforts and hard work. I was handed everything as a child. Became way to cocky, and basically a self righteous spoiled Brat. Then everything was taken, via my father at first. Everything stripped away. Long story short, it forced me to either sink or swim, and I found that PitBull will and mentality, am a few days (I think) from having my entire record set back before a judge and found not guilty across the board, and reach my goal. The point is, I would NEVER have done that if life would have continued as it was when I was a child. Thank God for my father, and his foresight, and all my "babysitters"!


Red Flag 1 said:


> I guess I got it all wrong. I was given things to do that increased my knowledge base, and it was broad. Later on, I was required to use the information to think, and find answers on my own.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Sep 8, 2016)

So those that don't like this, is it simply because you feel it's a joke that kids say they need it, or because the university is doing it or what? 

If the kids are having anxiety, and this turns out to help them, what's the big deal?  I personally have never had a problem with anxiety, or depression, nor an issue with accepting and learning from failure, so I don't presume to know what it's like to deal with those issues.  I'm sure these kids don't choose to have anxiety, and it's probably scary when it creeps up on them.

Example:  My friends girlfriend suffers from anxiety.  If she's alone in a pitch black room, or in a large crowd where you have trouble moving, she suffers from panic attacks occasionally.  She can't help it, it just comes.  This same girl also works 80 hour weeks managing a popular restaurant in Madison.  She also did so for a year while finishing her bachelor's degree in hotel management.  I certainly wouldn't call her weak or a pussy because she just so happens to suffer from a problem she has absolutely no control over.

Edit to add:  She used to take medication for this.  About 2 years ago she stopped taking it on her own volition.  The panic attacks have actually gotten fewer in number.  Personally, I like the idea of talking about this type of thing better.  Because the other solution is pretty much always "take these pills, and let's see what happens".


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## Devildoc (Sep 8, 2016)

BuckysBadger24 said:


> So those that don't like this, is it simply because you feel it's a joke that kids say they need it, or because the university is doing it or what?
> 
> If the kids are having anxiety, and this turns out to help them, what's the big deal?  I personally have never had a problem with anxiety, or depression, nor an issue with accepting and learning from failure, so I don't presume to know what it's like to deal with those issues.  I'm sure these kids don't choose to have anxiety, and it's probably scary when it creeps up on them.



Well, counseling offices have abounded on college campuses for decades.  Maybe more.  I am all for services to help students, really.   My gripe is that it seems that kids are going into college or the workforce ill-prepared not because of the rigors of fill-in-the-blank, but because their parents and schools have failed them in preparation.  I see a difference between what the link is about way back in the original post and what you bring up.  With regard to anxiety, depression, et al., of course there should be services to help.

I know a counter-argument is that colleges have services to help with kids who are math- or writing-deficient, labs, etc. and this is an extension.  I don't know.  It just bugs me that the kids who _seem _to use/need the "adulting" classes need them because of the circumstances in which they were raised: coddled, unused to failure, helicopter parenting, everyone-gets-a-trophy expectations.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Sep 8, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Well, counseling offices have abounded on college campuses for decades.  Maybe more.  I am all for services to help students, really.   My gripe is that it seems that kids are going into college or the workforce ill-prepared not because of the rigors of fill-in-the-blank, but because their parents and schools have failed them in preparation.  I see a difference between what the link is about way back in the original post and what you bring up.  With regard to anxiety, depression, et al., of course there should be services to help.
> 
> I know a counter-argument is that colleges have services to help with kids who are math- or writing-deficient, labs, etc. and this is an extension.  I don't know.  It just bugs me that the kids who _seem _to use/need the "adulting" classes need them because of the circumstances in which they were raised: coddled, unused to failure, helicopter parenting, everyone-gets-a-trophy expectations.



Oh I totally believe that that is the case for some of these kids.  But even pertaining to them, if this helps those ones as well, than all the better.  I just feel like a lot of the time it's a blanket statement on how every kid born after 1990 is a spoiled and coddled punk.  Are there plenty of that type?  Of course, but I'd be willing to bet that number is a lot lower than people think. 

The rhetoric I've heard in the media, and from my teachers growing up, is say something.  If you're being bullied, say something.  If you're depressed, say something.  If you're having anxiety issues, say something.  So, many kids do, and they then proceed to get called whiny, lazy, and coddled.....Suck it up pussy.  So which do we want?  Suck it up....or say something and talk about it.  No two kids are the same, so having the option to talk about it can't be a terrible thing IMO.


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## Phoenix (Sep 8, 2016)

Not sure where it all went wrong, one could say the laws became insuch that parents could no longer teach "old school" to their children. Or that times have changed and things have advanced so far that a new method needs to be found. I agree whole in full with Devildoc;



Devildoc said:


> It just bugs me that the kids who _seem _to use/need the "adulting" classes need them because of the circumstances in which they were raised: coddled, unused to failure, helicopter parenting, everyone-gets-a-trophy expectations.



Failure is a part of life, and like anger, it is NOT a bad thing, depending on what the individual does or learns about themselves and others from it. It could be the one thing that defines and starts a solid foundation for life skills,or it could mean the, to quote Devildoc, "coddled" child is crushed by one of many to come defeats. I called the crushed ones, and I could be wrong, just my opinion, a victim of mother hen/father hen. If a college student has never experienced true failure that meant something up to that point, I would dare say they will be ill equipped to deal with it and keep rolling. Maybe a new class in college geared towards teaching how to turn failure into a successful learning tool? I really do not know. It depends on the individual really. Like BuckyBadger24 said:



BuckysBadger24 said:


> If the kids are having anxiety, and this turns out to help them, what's the big deal? I personally have never had a problem with anxiety, or depression, nor an issue with accepting and learning from failure, so I don't presume to know what it's like to deal with those issues. I'm sure these kids don't choose to have anxiety, and it's probably scary when it creeps up on them.


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## Phoenix (Sep 8, 2016)

If no one says anything, nothing will ever be done to help, and if nothing is done to at least try to help, then the problem will Always maintain a foothold.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Sep 8, 2016)

Phoenix said:


> Not sure where it all went wrong



See, what makes me curious is when was it "right"?  What do we call right in this case?  Have kids really changed a whole lot, or has the upbringing changed.  I think most here tend to go with the latter, as do I.  And if so how can we blame the kids?  

Because looking at the different generations of kids through the 20th century into the 21st, not one of them grew up in a country, or society for that matter, that was the same as the one the generation before it grew up in.  And IMO, the change has gone from gradual, to total in the last few decades.  What's around us, and in our hands, seems to be outpacing our ability to evolve with it.


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## Phoenix (Sep 8, 2016)

Either it is outpacing, or we, as a whole, are ignoring it, or trying to shift it to the back burner, or trying to downplay it as weakness on the individuals part when in fact it may be the spark of a rock steady strength IF developed properly. Again, ignoring it is only going to make it much, much worse. Better to face the problems and be part of the solution head on than pretend they do not exist and be part of the problem.


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 8, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Well, counseling offices have abounded on college campuses for decades.  Maybe more.  I am all for services to help students, really.   My gripe is that it seems that kids are going into college or the workforce ill-prepared not because of the rigors of fill-in-the-blank, but because their parents and schools have failed them in preparation.  I see a difference between what the link is about way back in the original post and what you bring up.  With regard to anxiety, depression, et al., of course there should be services to help.
> 
> I know a counter-argument is that colleges have services to help with kids who are math- or writing-deficient, labs, etc. and this is an extension.  I don't know.  It just bugs me that the kids who _seem _to use/need the "adulting" classes need them because of the circumstances in which they were raised: coddled, unused to failure, helicopter parenting, everyone-gets-a-trophy expectations.



High school graduates always had some degree of variability in their chances of making it through their first semester of college. The failures were pure academic, the freedom to go a bit wild away from home, or a combination of both.  I expect the variability factors have a pretty wide degree of ability today.

Perhaps some form of pre or post admission testing is in order. This would give undergrad programs a better handle on the quality of students they will be educating. There is always the MMPI route, but I don't see that need for every student. Some students may benefit from a non credit bearing series of classes that would be akin to 13th grade high school course of studies before the start of their college freshman class. I can also see value in a mentorship with successful upperclassmen. This would be the college reaching out to help. The other side of the equation is the student coming to grips with their need to fill in some gaps. Some may not accept their position, and agreeing to accept the findings of the testing.


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