# HUMINT Scenario



## snake_doc (Jul 14, 2009)

Here is a question that I had in one of my classes. I figured I would post it here to see how people think about this situation.

Develop a plan to submit to your supervisor for approval based on the following scenario. You have been trying for some time to gain information on the location and movements of a wanted international crime figure. You have found out that a US news bureau has arranged a secret interview with the crime figure. An advance news crew consisting of a news director (female), cameraman, and two research assistants (one female and one male), will be in your city for the next week preparing for the interview. You work for the government, but do not want to reveal that fact to the news crew. With time short, develop a deceptive plan to approach this news crew with the intent of finding the location of the interview, either before, or as it is happening. In your plan include such items as: which news crew member will you approach, what is your cover identity, what will be your approach to make first contact, what will you do to ensure additional contact with the crew member can be made which will lead you to obtaining the information desired?
Keep it simple and do not read into theproblem.


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## SAWMAN (Jul 14, 2009)

snake_doc said:


> Here is a question that I had in one of my classes. I figured I would post it here to see how people think about this situation.
> 
> Develop a plan to submit to your supervisor for approval based on the following scenario. You have been trying for some time to gain information on the location and movements of a wanted international crime figure. You have found out that a US news bureau has arranged a secret interview with the crime figure. An advance news crew consisting of a news director (female), cameraman, and two research assistants (one female and one male), will be in your city for the next week preparing for the interview. You work for the government, but do not want to reveal that fact to the news crew. With time short, develop a deceptive plan to approach this news crew with the intent of finding the location of the interview, either before, or as it is happening. In your plan include such items as: which news crew member will you approach, what is your cover identity, what will be your approach to make first contact, what will you do to ensure additional contact with the crew member can be made which will lead you to obtaining the information desired?
> Keep it simple and do not read into theproblem.



Simple. All you need is a set of boobs for that mission...or any similar mission. My wife's a master.
(Pardon my humor, but I couldn't resist)


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## snake_doc (Jul 14, 2009)

I'm guessing you would go after the male intern or the male cameraman? If so, which one? In what setting? What would be requested and how?


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## Paddlefoot (Jul 14, 2009)

snake_doc said:


> Here is a question that I had in one of my classes. I figured I would post it here to see how people think about this situation.
> 
> Develop a plan to submit to your supervisor for approval based on the following scenario. You have been trying for some time to gain information on the location and movements of a wanted international crime figure. You have found out that a US news bureau has arranged a secret interview with the crime figure. An advance news crew consisting of a news director (female), cameraman, and two research assistants (one female and one male), will be in your city for the next week preparing for the interview. You work for the government, but do not want to reveal that fact to the news crew. With time short, develop a deceptive plan to approach this news crew with the intent of finding the location of the interview, either before, or as it is happening. In your plan include such items as: which news crew member will you approach, what is your cover identity, what will be your approach to make first contact, what will you do to ensure additional contact with the crew member can be made which will lead you to obtaining the information desired?
> Keep it simple and do not read into theproblem.



You realize that approaching a journalist covertly in this manner, in an attempt to integrate them into your operation, would probably be a violation of the law.

There are exceptions, one being the issuance of a waiver by no less than the POTUS, or revealing who you are and receiving voluntary cooperation from the journalists in question.


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## jtprgr375 (Jul 14, 2009)

uh... follow them.?


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## RetPara (Jul 14, 2009)

Don't contact.  Surveillance only.  Wait for the 'Talent' to come in country.  That is the key.  No contact what so ever.  This would require a multi layer plan.  A complicated operation, but doable if you can pull in the assets.


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## SexyBeast (Jul 14, 2009)

Paddlefoot said:


> You realize that approaching a journalist covertly in this manner, in an attempt to integrate them into your operation, would probably be a violation of the law.
> 
> There are exceptions, one being the issuance of a waiver by no less than the POTUS, or revealing who you are and receiving voluntary cooperation from the journalists in question.



Yeah, but it feels good to break a rule every now and then.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 14, 2009)

Why is this even being discussed?


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## snake_doc (Jul 14, 2009)

It's just a good way to keep the brain going. This came from my HUMINT course I'm taking through a university where the instructor was prior sf (way back) and cia o/o. Good food for thought quesiton. No right answer and to the best of my knowledge, if you approach the cameraman or the interns and not the reporter, you are not using the "news media" as a collection asset and therefore do not require a waiver.


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## moobob (Jul 15, 2009)

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/ospp/securityguide/T3method/Elicit.htm


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## 7point62 (Jul 15, 2009)

Cash.

I'm not kidding. Big cash. Give them enough money and they'll tell you anything you want to know. First, if this is a local news crew, they are probably underpaid and resent their employer who's been fucking around with their contracts and/or overtime. If they are a national news crew, they get paid enough, but they've blown it and owe a lot. Second, Edward R. Murrow is dead. And so are ethics in broadcast news.


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## EverSoLost (Jul 26, 2009)

snake_doc said:


> You have been trying for some time to gain information on the location and movements of a wanted international crime figure. You have found out that a *US *news bureau has arranged a secret interview with the crime figure.



For sake of propriety my answer is; I wouldn't.  I would forward to the appropriate Agency with the correct jurisdiction and mission.


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## snake_doc (Jul 26, 2009)

Fair enough....unless you are the one responsible for collecting such information.


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## EverSoLost (Jul 26, 2009)

Than I'd "probably" be a LEO or FISS and since I'm neither I wouldn't be qualified to comment.  

Imma jus' spekulatin' do....:)


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## arizonaguide (Jul 26, 2009)

RetPara said:


> Don't contact. Surveillance only. Wait for the 'Talent' to come in country. That is the key. No contact what so ever. This would require a multi layer plan. A complicated operation, but doable if you can pull in the assets.


Agree. :2c:


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## Brando (Jul 26, 2009)

I think, and I could be wrong, cback was questioning whether or not this was an appropriate discussion to have publicly.

I know I don't feel comfortable answering. :2c:


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## x SF med (Jul 27, 2009)

cback0220 said:


> Why is this even being discussed?


 


Brando said:


> I think, and I could be wrong, cback was questioning whether or not this was an appropriate discussion to have publicly.
> 
> I know I don't feel comfortable answering. :2c:


 
I agree with both posts.
Why make it easier for hadji/BGs in general to know any of this?
Are they telling you the methods they use to infiltrate?
Just because it's available does not mean it should be shared.

In WWII - the phrase was "loose lips sink ships".
:2c:


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## Paddlefoot (Jul 27, 2009)

Also, you don't know where the news crews sympathies lie. Maybe they're secretly in cahoots with the bad guys, figure out what you're trying to do, and lead you into a trap.

Journalists and the media can be useful sometimes, whether as an information source or as a disseminator of info, maybe agreeing to plant something for you within the context of an article.

But trying to involve them in one of your operations, whether legitmately or not, is only asking for trouble.


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## snake_doc (Jul 27, 2009)

Roger all. Understand the concerns, info was taken right out a public college course. In addition, materials are out there such as in the book "Running a ring of spies" and "Spy Handler", the later by a former KGB officer.

If a moderator can close this thread, that would be good.


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## SpitfireV (Jul 27, 2009)

I don't think it's such a big deal, everything being discussed is the stuff of considered thought, nothing opsec and certainly nothing that hasn't been revealed in books, movies, tv shows and court cases. 

Everyone here knows the limits of opsec, I say we let the thread run.


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## moobob (Jul 28, 2009)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't think it's such a big deal, everything being discussed is the stuff of considered thought, nothing opsec and certainly nothing that hasn't been revealed in books, movies, tv shows and court cases.
> 
> Everyone here knows the limits of opsec, I say we let the thread run.



Ditto.


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## x SF med (Jul 28, 2009)

My post was just an equipment and intel check post - just because it's open source, does not mean it is not dangerous to post.


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## Brando (Jul 28, 2009)

It's an entertaining thought experiment undoubtedly. 

However, if I answer the question legitimately OPSEC would be violated.

Since this is posted in the Intelligence and Support Operations section, and has HUMINT in the title, it makes me a little uncomfortable is all.

Just my (I'd use _one cent_ if the emoticon were available).


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## JBS (Jul 28, 2009)

moobob said:


> http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/ospp/securityguide/T3method/Elicit.htm





> [FONT=arial, helvetica]A professor from a south Asian country was teaching a night class in business     administration at a Maryland university. In one assignment, her students were assigned a     term paper on the company where they worked. One student reported to the FBI that her     paper was returned by the professor three times. On each occasion the professor asked for     more details on the company. The student became concerned when the directed expansion of     the assignment began to involve sensitive, possibly proprietary information[/FONT]






Great link.:2c:


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## snake_doc (Jul 28, 2009)

Classic elicitation! I was just reading a story just like that about getting information from a Libyan air defense minster.

Citation:
Running a Ring of Spies by Jefferson Mack, page 185.


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## EverSoLost (Jul 28, 2009)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't think it's such a big deal, everything being discussed is the stuff of considered thought, nothing opsec and certainly nothing that hasn't been revealed in books, movies, tv shows and court cases.
> 
> Everyone here knows the limits of opsec, I say we let the thread run.



Okay fair enough.  But just because some things are eluded to within the realm of Fantasy doesn't mean that one wouldn't accidently breach into the world of Fact just out of formed behavior.

I'm definatley the Rookie around these parts, and in this area especially so I'll take the expert opinions on this.  The reason my response was worded the way it was is to elude to this exact thing. 

It just appears to me that the scenario not only because of the "players" within, but the fact it could lead someone to "believe" that the information being presented is "fact" or "truth" could lead to this thread being linked to CNN.

I can see the headlines now.  "Special Operations Spies on Americans".  Simply because of the Nature of the board and it's membership the opinions herein could be construed as factual.

Then in turn there is a "possiblity" however slight some TTP's will be revealed or information could be gleamed from these posts.  We have an Intel area that isn't open to the public on this board.  Would that not be a better venue for such an exercise?

Just my 2 cents.   Like I said; I'm the Rookie what do I know?


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## EverSoLost (Jul 28, 2009)

I should also add that in the past, especially when I was "wanting and striving" to enter this profession.  On this board?  I was/am the largest offender in this area because of pure ignorance on my part.

more 2 :cents


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## Rogue Dragon (Jul 31, 2009)

This is a hypothetical scenario at best. It is a fantasy to think that we could obtain information concerning a "secret" meeting being set-up by a news crew. CNN and others keep a pretty close hold on information and their sources. When I was working in a JOC, we watched CNN and when something happened to one our units, it would only take CNN about 30 to 60 minutes to announce it. In some cases I think they knew before we knew. Never found the source of their information. So the likelihood of getting the "drop" on them is very very remote.

Just my thoughts.........


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## Cochise (Mar 26, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Why is this even being discussed?



Amen, brother.

I'm not questioning anyone on this forum...but I highly doubt anyone in here has this type of operational leniency


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## QC (Mar 26, 2011)

Electronic.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 27, 2011)

I'd have thought one of the first things to do in an operation is to check how old your information is.


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## pardus (Mar 27, 2011)

Cochise said:


> I'm not questioning anyone on this forum...
> 
> 
> but I highly doubt anyone in here has this type of operational leniency



Umm... 'I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm highly doubt you are right' :confused:

You know everyone on this board and what they do and have done?


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## Marauder06 (Mar 27, 2011)

How would I handle such a situation?  I'd call my FBI LNO and turn everything I knew over to him and let the agency with responsibility for domestic collection (FBI) handle it.

I think the usefulness of this thread has come to an end.  The original poster requested its deletion, so shortly that's what I'm going to do.  Thread closed.


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