# THE VIKING SIGHT



## Chad (Feb 11, 2011)

Standard night sights:







VTAC sights:






Seven shooters have tried the new sights and six preferred the VTAC over the  traditional. Shooters were; four instructors for the BP, one student for  the BP, one inexperienced IPSC type and myself.
All the shooting was on steel at 25 and 50 yards.

Initial  impressions, prior to shooting, tended to be a mix of "they look too  busy". In practice one of the first things noticed is that you do not see the extra dots unless you look for them, the smaller  size of the tritium vials seems to keep them from being a distraction.

Second Day:
Shot at 20yds:
















I like the new sights. I shoot them as well if not better than the traditional 3-dot the majority of the time. The good group above is not meant to be considered as a constant example it is just what I happened to shoot on that string, the only comparison I've done on paper.

A comparison with a timer will be next. I will be looking to see if there is enough consistency in timed runs to get a solid comparison between the different sights.

From the VTAC website:
*PRODUCT INFORMATION*: 
                           Unlike any sight on the market, the  Revolutionary design of the Viking Sight will enhance your ability to  close with and destroy the threat, day or night.  The Viking Sight from Viking Tactics, Inc. features a tapered front  sight that will draw you immediately to the correct aiming point. This  sight is not only tapered for speed, but to help with accuracy at  distance when needed. The tapered sight leads to an indestructible fiber  optic that will help to drive your focus where it is needed. These  sights are extremely fast. The rear sight notch has also been cut lower  than normal to not only enhance speed, but to allow the shooter to see  the tritium vials that have been inserted below the fiber optic. The  Viking Sight will allow you to have the fine aiming point that you want  and need, coupled with fiber optic to help draw your attention. If the  sun goes down you are now able to use the tritium that is slightly below  the fiber optic.


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## Polar Bear (Feb 11, 2011)

and how are these any diff than TruGlo($90) for basically $130.00 bucks more? They are basically raping the shooter because they are putting a new spin on something that is already out there. Drop the price a 100 bucks and maybe I will try it


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## Chad (Feb 11, 2011)




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## KBar666 (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 12, 2011)

Polar Bear said:


> and how are these any diff than TruGlo($90) for basically $130.00 bucks more? They are basically raping the shooter because they are putting a new spin on something that is already out there. Drop the price a 100 bucks and maybe I will try it



That’s all it will ever be, the new cool thing on the market. VTAC is doing nothing different than anyone else out there in the tactical training/equipment industry and I see nothing wrong with it. If you look at every company in that business you will see their own product line of the same stuff on the market with a little twist, to make it unique to the company. The price is nothing more than "VTAC" being attached to the product line.

As for the sights I hate using the standard night sights (meps, trij) b/c of the dots, but b/c night sights really help at night I have them on all my carry guns. I prefer a flat black notch and post over all, not a fan of fiber tube sights, not a fan of white dot sights and if it was not for the night aiming ability I would not be a fan of night sights.

Personally I think the future is in red dot sights for pistols (*RMR, J-point*). I think it will become pretty dominate in the tactical community over the next few years, the same way a lot of the IPSC/IDPA/Action type shooting has done over the last 10 years. If you have never used one it seems pretty dumb, but once you do use one you will understand the effectiveness in speed and accuracy it has over the current metallic sight systems. I would like to see one come out that does not require batteries and that can be milled into the back of a slide, to wear it does not add too much to the pistols overall size (bulk). Once something like that comes out and makes it runs through testing (trial and error) I will look to replace my pistol sights with it permanently.

ETA: Chad, nice shot groups on those 20 yards groups, were you doing that with that M&P? If so have you done anything to it, or did yours run that way out of the box (minus the sights). My M&P was printing 6 inch groups at 15 yards from the rest (with several different shooters).


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## Chad (Feb 13, 2011)

Polar Bear said:


> and how are these any diff than TruGlo($90) for basically $130.00 bucks more? They are basically raping the shooter because they are putting a new spin on something that is already out there. Drop the price a 100 bucks and maybe I will try it



How are the TRuGlo dimension compared to the VTAC? That is the primary reason I would think a person might consider these. The NS/FO is what puts them different than any other sight w/ similar dimensions. It is my experience that sights can have an effect on how well a person can shoot. No different than changing grips, triggers etc..

I put over 6,000 rounds through the two M&Ps last year with the stock Trijicon, I have no problem buying a new set of sight and using them for a few thousand rounds to see if the are better/worse/same.

I look forward to your review with the TruGlo.


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## Chad (Feb 13, 2011)

JAB said:


> Personally I think the future is in red dot sights for pistols (*RMR, J-point*). I think it will become pretty dominate in the tactical community over the next few years, the same way a lot of the IPSC/IDPA/Action type shooting has done over the last 10 years. If you have never used one it seems pretty dumb, but once you do use one you will understand the effectiveness in speed and accuracy it has over the current metallic sight systems. I would like to see one come out that does not require batteries and that can be milled into the back of a slide, to wear it does not add too much to the pistols overall size (bulk). Once something like that comes out and makes it runs through testing (trial and error) I will look to replace my pistol sights with it permanently.
> 
> ETA: Chad, nice shot groups on those 20 yards groups, were you doing that with that M&P? If so have you done anything to it, or did yours run that way out of the box (minus the sights). My M&P was printing 6 inch groups at 15 yards from the rest (with several different shooters).



I agree that the MRD is the future. I have shot them for over six years and carried one for ccw for awhile. The company I used to work for(PFI) had their own MRD out before Trijicon, Burris, Insight, Leupold etc came out. It is something I will get done in the future, I need to find a company that I like for the install and I would like to get hands on with the Trijicon, Insight and Leupold before I pick one over the other.

Those groups were with two different M&Ps, two hand, unsupported slow fire; one had the VTAC sights and the other the standard night sights.


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## Polar Bear (Feb 13, 2011)

Chad said:


> How are the TRuGlo dimension compared to the VTAC? That is the primary reason I would think a person might consider these. The NS/FO is what puts them different than any other sight w/ similar dimensions. It is my experience that sights can have an effect on how well a person can shoot. No different than changing grips, triggers etc..
> 
> I put over 6,000 rounds through the two M&Ps last year with the stock Trijicon, I have no problem buying a new set of sight and using them for a few thousand rounds to see if the are better/worse/same.
> 
> I look forward to your review with the TruGlo.



TruGlo is the same damn thing, $130 bucks cheaper, thats why I would consider it. You are missing the point they are not reinventing the wheel.  They would have to give them to me before I would even consider buying them for my other weapons.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 13, 2011)

Chad said:


> Those groups were with two different M&Ps, two hand, unsupported slow fire; one had the VTAC sights and the other the standard night sights.



Damn good shooting bro, I think my M&P must have been a bad production. I ended up shit canning it after about 6 months to go with an XD(M) that is now my SSP for IDPA and Pro for USPSA. I have been anti M&P since, but I have a buddy that had one built up by Bowie Tactical that is holding 10 ring at 25 yards, I am now thinking about giving the M&P Pro a run.



Polar Bear said:


> TruGlo is the same damn thing, $130 bucks cheaper, thats why I would consider it. You are missing the point they are not reinventing the wheel. They would have to give them to me before I would even consider buying them for my other weapons.




PB, it looks like they are trying to eliminate having to have multiple guns with different sights. Most competition shooters like the fiber tubes for the speed of gaining front sight focus (I don’t really agree with it) but the fiber’s normally suck for night fire. Where with these sights give you have both worlds, night sights for night fire and fiber’s for day time speed. You might not see the benefit, but I can see a lot of IDPA shooters jumping on these sights in order to keep their comp gun the same as their carry gun. Thus eliminating having two or even three guns to have to buy, and or practice with.


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## AWP (Feb 13, 2011)

JAB said:


> Damn good shooting bro, I think my M&P must have been a bad production. I ended up shit canning it after about 6 months to go with an XD(M) that is now my SSP for IDPA and Pro for USPSA. I have been anti M&P since, but I have a buddy that had one built up by Bowie Tactical that is holding 10 ring at 25 yards, I am now thinking about giving the M&P Pro a run.
> 
> I can see a lot of IDPA shooters jumping on these sights in order to keep their comp gun the same as their carry gun. Thus eliminating having two or even three guns to have to buy, and or practice with.



The only difference between the Pro and a stock M&P is in the trigger (You're better off dropping in one from APEX Tactical) and the fiber optic sight (Dawson Precision's is better IMO, it is a thinner sight). The Pro is the only 5" barreled .40 from S&W, but 9mm versions exist in the 9L.

And things must have changed a lot with IDPA. Even several years ago a lot of IDPA guys had a comp gun and a carry gun....which for several reason I find hilarious.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 14, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> The only difference between the Pro and a stock M&P is in the trigger (You're better off dropping in one from APEX Tactical) and the fiber optic sight (Dawson Precision's is better IMO, it is a thinner sight). The Pro is the only 5" barreled .40 from S&W, but 9mm versions exist in the 9L.
> 
> And things must have changed a lot with IDPA. Even several years ago a lot of IDPA guys had a comp gun and a carry gun....which for several reason I find hilarious.



Good to know on the M&P, I’ll have to do more research on it. As for this year I am running the XD(M), I have been running real good thus far with it, smoked a steel match and made more than a few open class shooter rethink their equipment/preparation. LOL

It’s still the same way in IDPA, but I think it is more the ‘gaming’ side, I know more than a few SSP Master Class shooters who run a G19 carry gun. I just shot a classifier today where 2 guys classed Master with box stock Glocks.


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## policemedic (Feb 14, 2011)

One of the differences that I see is that the VTAC sights seem to have been designed to simplify one-handed slide manipulation.  It looks (correct me if I'm wrong, Chad) that they're deliberately blocky on the muzzle end of the rear sight, giving you a nice shelf to work the slide with on your belt, heel, holster, etc.  Looking at the Truglos, they seem much more rounded and prone to slipping off a belt or holster if you try to use the rear sight to work the slide.

I think VTAC puts out quality stuff (sometimes it's just a tweaked version of something already out there, but hey...quality nonetheless).  They aren't shy about charging for their products though.

Chad, once you really wring these out, I'd be interested in hearing an opinion.  They're only available for the M&P, but that may change in the future.


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## AWP (Feb 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> Good to know on the M&P, I’ll have to do more research on it. As for this year I am running the XD(M), I have been running real good thus far with it, smoked a steel match and made more than a few open class shooter rethink their equipment/preparation. LOL
> 
> It’s still the same way in IDPA, but I think it is more the ‘gaming’ side, I know more than a few SSP Master Class shooters who run a G19 carry gun. I just shot a classifier today where 2 guys classed Master with box stock Glocks.



The only reason I bought a Pro .40 was because it was the only M&P in .40 with a 5" barrel. There are two 5" 9mm variants IIRC, the Pro and 9L. I'm dropping the .040 Dawson sights on mine when I go home this summer.

I didn't care for the XD's height (barrel over the frame, whatever the hell that is called). They are solid pistols, but it didn't "point" well for me. There are a number of gunsmiths turning out USPSA Open guns on Glock/ XD/ M&P platforms. Some are stil in the tinkering phase and not as polished as 1911's, but I've seen some amazing polymer Open guns. You're talking somewhere around 2k for one whereas a brand new Open blaster on a 2011 frame is 4-5K?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 14, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> The only reason I bought a Pro .40 was because it was the only M&P in .40 with a 5" barrel. There are two 5" 9mm variants IIRC, the Pro and 9L. I'm dropping the .040 Dawson sights on mine when I go home this summer.
> 
> I didn't care for the XD's height (barrel over the frame, whatever the hell that is called). They are solid pistols, but it didn't "point" well for me. There are a number of gunsmiths turning out USPSA Open guns on Glock/ XD/ M&P platforms. Some are stil in the tinkering phase and not as polished as 1911's, but I've seen some amazing polymer Open guns. You're talking somewhere around 2k for one whereas a brand new Open blaster on a 2011 frame is 4-5K?



Bore axis, as in height of the bore over the grip. Yeah I was the same way about the XD’s but I do have to say the XD(M) is truly different on many levels. I liked the grip of the M&P, it looked and felt like a smooth gun. However the M&P would not perform at the accuracy level I wanted to be comfortable with it as a CCW or Comp gun.
I am not into the open class stuff. USPSA Pro div I run Glock 22 and the XD(M) and my single stack gun is a Kimber custom 2. IDPA I run ESP with G22, SSP with XD(M), CDP with the Kimber, and SSR with a S&W 686. Steel pro div is the XD(M) and for single stack the Kimber.


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## The91Bravo (Feb 14, 2011)

Can I throw my .02 into the pot ref fiber optics??

I have the HK USP V1 Custom Combat.  IT came with fiber optic front sites standard and all black rear.  I (at that time) had a G22 issued with Tritium.  I also had a SigPro 2022 all black (no dots at all)

I am not going to comment on shot groups since every weapon fired differently and the point of impacts were also different.  But I would like to speak in regards of visibility of the sites.

The Trijicon was approx 40% in daylight and approx 60% at night in being able to locate the site rapidly.  Down to 50% with flashlight.

The all black was approx 60% in bright daylight and flat zero% at night.  Same night visibility with flashlight regardless of contrasting target.

The Fiber Optic  was approx 60% in daylight (bright and dusk) and 50% at night, WITH one variance.  At night with flashlight, I would rate the fiber at 60-70%, regardless of contrasting target.

So, in my un-scientific opinion, the fiber optic rates at a high for the day, and same at night, and even a little better with another light source.  I am honestly trying to remove my opinion of the actual weapon, because I would rate the three at 1. HK, 2. Sig and 3. G-lock.

I do not think the VTAC re-invents the wheel, but it may work better for an individual, and that is what matters to the individual shooter.  With the exception being department or branch issue weapons where dept policy may dictate a requirement for weps/optics that the depts are willing to accept liability for.

So, in closing, I believe that an unbiased review, must be taken with all the pros and cons weighed before a site purchase/change should be considered.  But as with everything else, be ready to swap it back to something you are more confident in.

Well that is my .02... or maybe .04 for free


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 14, 2011)

91B, are those percentages what you personally see?


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## The91Bravo (Feb 14, 2011)

JAB,

Yes, that is what I personally see.

I would characterize the percentages of 100% as being perfectly bright. clear, contrasting and vibrant.  Any decrease in any of those characteristics deducts percents as I feel necessary.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 14, 2011)

The91Bravo said:


> JAB,
> 
> Yes, that is what I personally see.



Interesting.

http://www.physicianformulas.com/store/Scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct=225&name=Eyesight-Rx


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## The91Bravo (Feb 14, 2011)

JAB,
ordered my free sample. I have read about this stuff, and am willing to try anything.  Thanks


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 14, 2011)

The91Bravo said:


> JAB,
> ordered my free sample. I have read about this stuff, and am willing to try anything. Thanks



I have worked with a lot of shooters in the past that were not able to get a crisp focus on the sights, eyesight rx is one of the products I would recommend. I hope it has some good effects for you bro.


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## Chad (May 14, 2011)

http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/ did the work for the Deltapoint installation. Good work, tight fit, they also did the irons(in front of the optic and a taller front).

All three started as M&P Pro models - 9mm, 4.5" barrel, upgraded triggers and Trijicon NS(far right of the three). Changes are the Deltapoint and VTAC sights for the two on the left.


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