# Army Snipers in Afghanistan get New M-110 SASS



## Ravage (Jul 1, 2007)

Snipers in Afghanistan Get New Rifle

Army News Service | Matthew Leary | April 23, 2007

FORWARD OPERATING BASE SALERNO, Afghanistan (Army News Service, April 23, 2007) - Soldiers from Task Force Fury are the first in a combat zone to receive a new sniper rifle, the XM110 semi-automatic sniper system.

The new rifle has several new features, the most prominent being an improved rate of fire.

"It's semi-automatic, so it allows for rapid re-engagement of targets," said Staff Sgt. Jason R. Terry, a sniper instructor with the U.S. Army Sniper School.

Older rifles such as the M24 Sniper Weapon System are bolt-action weapons that require the user to manually feed another round into the chamber after each shot. The automatic firing capabilities of the SASS will decrease lag time in between shots, Staff Sgt. Terry said.

A metal tube that fits over the barrel of the rifle also significantly reduces the signature blast and eliminates the small cloud of dust that rises off the ground from the gases emitted through the barrel. 

This advancement will make locating snipers in the field, even after they have fired a shot, difficult for enemy forces, said Staff Sgt. Terry. 

The new weapons came with three days of training, both in the classroom and on the range, by Staff Sgt. Terry and other experts. 

"We learned to maintain and operate the weapon, what we can fix ourselves and what we can't," said Pfc. Joel D. Dulashanti, a sniper with the 82nd Airborne Division's Troop C, 4th Squadron, 73rd Cavalry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team.

Mr. Kyle P. Gleason, an equipment specialist with Tank Automotive and Armorist Command, handled the maintenance portion of the class.

"I teach them the basics," he said. "Here's your rifle, here's what it can do and here's how you take care of it."

Mr. Gleason taught Soldier how to determine the level of maintenance the weapon needs and who is capable of providing it. He also cautioned Soldiers about particularly fragile parts of the weapon, which only manufacturers can repair. 

Soldiers appreciated the hands-on training, which they said helped them better understand their new equipment. 

"I think it's a pretty simple gun to maintain and operate," said Spc. Aaron J. Fillmore, an infantryman with Troop C, 4-73rd Cav. "It was good to get the familiarization with the weapon."

On a diferent forum I've read that the rifle isn't all that "cool".


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## JCasp (Jul 4, 2007)

Erm, is this a tac'd out AR-10?


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2007)

They shouldn't use the term 'Sniper' when refering to this weapon, this is a marksman weapon, not a snipers!

:2c:


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## Pete031 (Jul 4, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> They shouldn't use the term 'Sniper' when refering to this weapon, this is a marksman weapon, not a snipers!
> 
> :2c:



It could be emloyed within a sniper team or Det. We have had it so one was on a 338, one on a Tac .50 and then one with an AR 10. Now this could be debated, one could have a C8/C7 203 combo or a minimi.


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2007)

Within a sniper team/det sure, but not as a sniper primary weapon.


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## Pete031 (Jul 4, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Within a sniper team/det sure, but not as a sniper primary weapon.



Right.... But it would have uses, remember I come from a small, highly over extended army. So my views are a bit different. For urban counter sniping, it could be used. It could be great for a DM, but they aren't trained in defensive sniping and counter sniping like actual snipers are. And in an urban enviroment, you may want a smaller caliber with a higher rate of fire.


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> Right.... But it would have uses, remember I come from a small, highly over extended army. So my views are a bit different.



Yeah sorry I forgot, coming from a New Zealand Army background with unlimited resources I sometimes forget about the wee kids on the block! :uhh: LMAO! 




Pete031 said:


> For urban counter sniping, it could be used. It could be great for a DM, but they aren't trained in defensive sniping and counter sniping like actual snipers are. And in an urban environment, you may want a smaller caliber with a higher rate of fire.



I get you point I really do, but this is a 7.62mm weapon, we established many many years ago that a semi auto is no good in a sniper role, DM, great personally I think every section/squad should have a 7.62mm DM :2c: this is apparently meant to replace the M24 & M21 big mistake.

Bring it on and employ to section/squad or platoon level but keep it away from a sniping role.

Its an easy/lazy way to get sharp shooters online with out the skill and effort of training sniper, experience has shown this is a recipe for disaster.


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## Pete031 (Jul 4, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Yeah sorry I forgot, coming from a New Zealand Army background with unlimited resources I sometimes forget about the wee kids on the block! :uhh: LMAO!
> LOL!!
> 
> 
> ...




Well they are all the same caliber at that level. At the most it will be new parts. As we stated before as long as it is not the primary weapon of a SNiper Det.
The difference is, a Sniper can do a lot more with a semi auto 7.62 x 51mm rifle then a DM can. 
But we do need both, and every section should have a DM in it.


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> As we stated before as long as it is not the primary weapon of a SNiper Det.



Agreed



Pete031 said:


> The difference is, a Sniper can do a lot more with a semi auto 7.62 x 51mm rifle then a DM can.



Probably, but he cant do as much as he can with a bolt action, AS A SNIPER!



Pete031 said:


> But we do need both, and every section should have a (7.62m) DM in it.



Agree 100%


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## Ravage (Jul 4, 2007)

From what I hear the SASS is *not* meant to replace the SWS, its meant to be a addition to their weaponry. Still, I've read (on a different forum) that its not doing so good.


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## Pete031 (Jul 4, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Probably, but he cant do as much as he can with a bolt action, AS A SNIPER!



Well,
  I was talking to a guy from the 75th, who is in charge of their sniper program. The reason semi auto is doing so well is that, target exposure is so quick in Iraq. You are shooting insurgents that are dodging in and out of ally ways. The last thing you want, when engaging a group of fleeting targets is to spend time working a bolt. 
   In an Urban enviroment, .308 (7.62 x 51) is a great round, especially if you can deliver accurate and rapid fire up to 800meters. In an urban enviroment it really turns you into a force multiplyer, which is one of the most important roles of the sniper.


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## The91Bravo (Jul 4, 2007)

All sniper teams must have the platform to allow them to fight back to their patrol base, the SASS allows that, in a caliber better than the standard M4 5.56.

5th SFG SOTIC has them already form what SFC T.B. tells me.  I havent got my hands on one, but the next time they take a class out to the test range, I am gonna lay my greasy dick skinners on one and shoot something... /drool/


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## The91Bravo (Jul 4, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> Well,
> I was talking to a guy from the 75th, who is in charge of their sniper program. The reason semi auto is doing so well is that, target exposure is so quick in Iraq. You are shooting insurgents that are dodging in and out of ally ways. The last thing you want, when engaging a *group of fleeting* targets is to spend time working a bolt.
> In an Urban enviroment, .308 (7.62 x 51) is a great round, especially if you can deliver accurate and rapid fire up to 800meters. In an urban enviroment it really turns you into a force multiplyer, which is one of the most important roles of the sniper.



or  a FLEET of GROUPING targets:huh?::huh?:


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## 104TN (Jul 4, 2007)

lol. Nice.


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## pardus (Jul 4, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> Well,
> I was talking to a guy from the 75th, who is in charge of their sniper program. The reason semi auto is doing so well is that, target exposure is so quick in Iraq. You are shooting insurgents that are dodging in and out of ally ways. The last thing you want, when engaging a group of fleeting targets is to spend time working a bolt.
> In an Urban enviroment, .308 (7.62 x 51) is a great round, especially if you can deliver accurate and rapid fire up to 800meters. In an urban enviroment it really turns you into a force multiplyer, which is one of the most important roles of the sniper.



Again we agree except on one vital point, that is not a snipers job, that is the job of a DM. 
For a DM this (like the M14 varients) is a great rifle.

A snipers role has never been to engage groups/multiple targets etc...

His role is to observe/report and take out specific high quality targets.


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## Pete031 (Jul 4, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Again we agree except on one vital point, that is not a snipers job, that is the job of a DM.
> For a DM this (like the M14 varients) is a great rifle.
> 
> A snipers role has never been to engage groups/multiple targets etc...
> ...



In a coventional open plains scenario yes, Even though we practice priority of tgts, so that a sniper det can make an enemy unit ineffective. 
However, thats what this dude from the 75th was telling us. Roles are changing. For example, baiting targets... Drop a guy with a weapon, and wait for others to try and pick it up. That is not the job of a DM, but of a sniper.
A DM is a section/platoon asset. A sniper works at battalion level, which means that they can act independantly, and not under control of a section commander/platoon commander. 
In complex terrain, firing at multi storey buildings while covering the advance of a battle group, I believe that there is a need of a short range, semi auto rifle.
Again, this is my opinion.
When firing at a fleet of grouping targets, it's best to use a minigun;)


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## The91Bravo (Jul 4, 2007)

I asked a similar question to the NCOIC of the 5th SOTIC.. 'Bull' P.

Said if a sniper picks up an old kentucky flintlock, then that weapon essentially becomes an improvised sniper weapon platform.  He also said the role of the typical 'sniper' has evolved.. It used to be almost 100% sneak peak report, and possibly shoot one bad guy.. Now they are employed mostly as often to shoot multi targets as anything...

Things, they are a changin....


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## Ngati Tumatuenga (Jul 9, 2007)

Times change and either you change with it or go the way of the dinosaurs.

The traditional tasks of the sniper were observation and precision long range fires on selected targets in that order.

After the events of the last few years a few enlightened operators have made it into positions of influence in various militarys not to mention the actual utility of snipers vs their perceived use based on conjecture and outdated experience has been evidenced beyond debate.

One of the major lessons learned to come out of OIF in the sniping fraternity is that in an MOUT environment the semi auto SR fufills a role for urban sniping that the bolt action SR cannot handle with its limited mag capacity, slower reloads, and slower follow up shots.

This is what drove the SASS program.

Unfortunately the M110 was never intended to replace the M24 but instead suppliment it along with the M107.

All three platforms have unique characteristics that make them ideal for specific roles. No single weapon can adequately do the job of the others.

But it seems a faction has managed to push their agenda which is to replace the M24 with the M110. The M110 and MK11 have specific roles in the Sniper community, ie, MOUT ops with multiple targets out to 600 meters. They're not effective past 600m and when they warm up the group expands exponentially. M110 suggested ROF is 4rpm. After that it MPI blows out.

The new LWRC .308 SABR might be a huge improvement if it performs as well as the PR states.


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## demo18c (Jul 9, 2007)

Just to confirm, the SR is in addition to the M24. No one in their right mind would replace it with the SR.


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## pardus (Jul 12, 2007)

As an addition to the current weapons it is a great idea IMO.

As long as sanity prevails and people in charge dont try to do what the always try and that is to have a "one rifle that does all" in the sniper role. :2c:


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## Ravage (Nov 6, 2007)

Question:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhfCBRSIAk"]YouTube - M110 Sniper Rifle[/ame]

are they really gonna replace the M-24SWS ? say it ain't so !


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## pardus (Nov 6, 2007)

That would be a move backwards.

I can see it as a marksman's rifle but as a replacment for a bolt action sniper rifle, no way. :2c:


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## RackMaster (Nov 6, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> That would be a move backwards.
> 
> I can see it as a marksman's rifle but as a replacment for a bolt action sniper rifle, no way. :2c:



Agreed.  For a quick reacting short-medium range for use at platoon or section level.  But there will always be a need for the precise medium-long range efficiency of a bolt action sniper rifle.


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## 8'Duece (Dec 25, 2007)

Ravage said:


> From what I hear the SASS is *not* meant to replace the SWS, its meant to be a addition to their weaponry. Still, I've read (on a different forum) that its not doing so good.



What do you mean by "not doing so good" ? 

I'm not one for trying to correct people, but If I haven't seen first hand that a weapons systems performance is either poor or fantastic, I'm not going to take someones opinion on an open forum on the net. 

Was this person citing " not doing so good" an SOF soldier with hands on experience ?? Why did the SR-25/Mk11 run so well for SOF units and this rifle does not ? They are made almost exactly the same, except for piston driven operation (Big +) and some minor changes to the rail system, BUIS's, and mounts. And, the suppressor (silencer) is about 2 1/4 inches longer with a newer baffle system and ported expansion chamber allowing for an more quite sound signature. In the video it still leaves a slight sonic crack down range. With a slightly heavier load I've heard this suppressor literally leave only the sound of the bolt cycling and slight "whisp" out of the barrel. 

Sounds like to me a good weapon system, but then again I'm not a sniper, never have been, but I'll throw in my personal opinion anyway. 

I will add that there may be "mission creep" with this particular weapon system, both here on the forum and in the field with the men that sport them down range.


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## Ravage (Dec 26, 2007)

It was the opinion of a former SOTIC instructor on PS.


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## 8'Duece (Dec 26, 2007)

Ravage said:


> It was the opinion of a former SOTIC instructor on PS.



I just did an advanced searched over at PS.COM using "SASS M110" "New Sniper Rifle" "New Sniper Rifle M110" Soldiers Get new M110" etc, etc, etc, etc, 

There are no threads or comments regarding the Knights SASS M110. 

Did you personally speak with this instuctor ? Is only one instuctors opinion a valid argument for "downing" the rifle to an entire forum ??

If anybody over there should know, it would be Longrange1947, and he's not posted, yet, about the SASS M110 from Knights.

Could you cite a better source than "Some have said" to quantify your statements ??


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## 275ANGER! (Dec 26, 2007)

*Pete031* was right about Regiments use of the SR in an urban environment. For us and many SOF groups that have money the semi-auto rifle didn't replace any of the sniper rifle systems it just enhanced the capabilities by adding another weapon to the inventory.  Our snipers brought an inventory of firepower with them to threater including the bolt-actions which gives them the discretion of weapon choices for OPs.  Like *demo18c* said it is an "addition" for the big Army.  
BTW Regiment just got a new bolt-action  and that is all I am saying


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## Chad (Dec 26, 2007)

82ndtrooper said:


> ..If anybody over there should know, it would be Longrange1947, and he's not posted, yet, about the SASS M110 from Knights...



He has posted on it at another forum(SN). PM if you want a link, there is a filter in place on this forum that will not let me post on the location.

Chad


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## Ravage (Dec 26, 2007)

275ANGER! said:


> BTW Regiment just got a new bolt-action  *and that is all I am saying*



Now thats torture


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## 8'Duece (Dec 26, 2007)

Chad said:


> He has posted on it at another forum(SN). PM if you want a link, there is a filter in place on this forum that will not let me post on the location.
> 
> Chad



Just for professionalisms sake, let's not bring up any other forum members name again. I stand guilty, but let's keep it off line. 

PM please.


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## AWP (Dec 26, 2007)

82ndtrooper said:


> Just for professionalisms sake, let's not bring up any other forum members name again. I stand guilty, but let's keep it off line.
> 
> PM please.



Yup. Good idea folks.


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## The91Bravo (Apr 28, 2008)

I just shot this weapon today.

I was hitting 475 and 535 yards easily.  Dialed the elevation, got my wind call and fired.  It hit on steel every time.

SOTIC is teaching their classes with this platform instead of the M24.



The one neg... With the suppressor mounted, yes it is quieter, but the weight of the suppressor actually flexes the barrel so that your first shot is dead on, but the next five slowly drop on the paper at the same distance... let it cool, remove the suppressor, blow the gasses out, mount the suppressor, and fire again... bingo.. back onto the point of aim.... that is not good...  And this was at a zero target of 200 yds....

Anyone ever hear of this happening??

Other than that, I loved shooting the weapon...  I think it is a great spotter rifle, and it would allow your team to fight it's way back to the patrol base...

my.02


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## Ravage (Apr 28, 2008)

The91Bravo said:


> I think it is a great spotter rifle, and it would allow your team to fight it's way back to the patrol base...



I'm no Sniper but I think this is the best thing I've read about this rifle. 
A guy called Remov (Polish forums, MPnet and HKpro) bangs everyone who writes that "the M24 is here to stay".
The guy never did military nor had any exp. except a few shots on the range.


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## The91Bravo (Apr 28, 2008)

at almost $20,000 per rifle.. I hope it is good for something... lol


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## 11B-B4 (Nov 30, 2008)

The91Bravo said:


> I just shot this weapon today.
> 
> I was hitting 475 and 535 yards easily.  Dialed the elevation, got my wind call and fired.  It hit on steel every time.
> 
> ...



Im not sure about that. My brother and I manufacture sound suppressors and are also B4s having time on that gun. KAC should have included a zero target with the can and without the can showing that the point of impact shift is very little almost non existent. From a manufacturers standpoint speaking from a theoretical perspective i dont think what you are talking about is possible. It might have been some other variable. How many rounds are through the gun? Has the suppressor been attatched and detattched many many times? The only thing that would cause that is loose tolerances in the qd mechanism. But KAC manufactured that too very tight tolerances for that very reason. It shouldnt be effecting anything. Also i know the can is made of 625 inconel a very high heat resistant nickel alloy, same stuff used on the space shuttle engine. So i doubt that it would be flexing. Any questions feel free to pm me.


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## Ravage (Nov 30, 2008)

11B-B4 I've read that Army Snipers arent too happy with the M110, any truth to that ?


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## 11B-B4 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ravage said:


> 11B-B4 I've read that Army Snipers arent too happy with the M110, any truth to that ?



Things it should have had per a very trusted sniper instructor i know was, Crane sopmod stock, surefire can, SPR grip, a few other things cant remember off the top of my head. But I know the biggest complaint is that a ton of them have trigger failure problems. Its supposed to be a two stage but they are all breaking and getting refitted at knights. One of ours went down after 40 rounds. 

We still have a good one that we are taking to the Interservice sniper comp this saturday. We'll see what happens with that. It should be a two stage trigger but for some reasons they are breaking and only a single long pull is felt until the rifle touches off extremely gay. But i hear turn around at KAC is only 3 weeks. so not bad. But if this happens in country you are severely deadlined. KAC should and maybe they have passed on knowledge to armorers in the field to be able to fix these triggers. But i dont think so. My only other gripe its fuckin long as hell, collapsable stock and surefire colar tpye reflex can would have been alot nicer to cut the OA length. Would be nice when inserting so haji doesnt know your a sniper


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## Ravage (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks :)


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