# Shopping for Optics...



## AWP (May 6, 2011)

...sucks.

The beauty is that I'm learning a ton, but holy cow is skydiving so much easier than firearms from a learning standpoint.

"3 gun looks like a blast, I have to play this game"

Idiot.


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## mike_cos (May 6, 2011)

hey Free... what's happened?....


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## Chopstick (May 6, 2011)

I dont have my glasses on and I thought the title of this thread was shopping for octopus. :confused:


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## pardus (May 6, 2011)

I hear you, I'm having a hard time working it all out.

Leaning towards an ACOG type at the moment...


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## x SF med (May 6, 2011)

Hey Free.... if you want a few copies of Shooting Times, let me know, I can send them your way....


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## x SF med (May 6, 2011)

Chopstick said:


> I dont have my glasses on and I thought the title of this thread was shopping for octopus. :confused:


 
If that's the case ...since you brought it up, cook me calamari, wench, or is that witch?   Whatever, Calamari, STAT... with a nice marinara for dipping and a side of nice fusili....  and a chianti.....


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## HOLLiS (May 6, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> ...sucks.
> 
> The beauty is that I'm learning a ton, but holy cow is skydiving so much easier than firearms from a learning standpoint.
> 
> ...



No kidding there are so many choices and lots of really good choices too... so which one?  Then factor in the range of prices.   I have never figured it out.   At least in one respect it is better than skydiving.   With optics, you can walk away from a bad jump,  maybe a little more poorer, by OK.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 6, 2011)

Use irons and your problem is solved....lol

ACOG is great for "combat" but I would not use one in 3 gun, or some of the tactical carbine matches I shoot.

I would make a list of what you want:

Price range
Distance of use (0-50/0-100/0-300/0-500 yards)
Ammo you plan to use
Weapon platform
Faster or more accurate

I use a Mil-Spec AR 15 with an EoTech 511 with 50yd zero for 3 gun......POA/POI is pretty flat out 250yd and the center dot in 1MOA and making A's/0's has not been a problem with good ammo.


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## mike_cos (May 6, 2011)

what you need?....  EOTech? AIMPoint? Thermal? NV? ACOG?  Telescope? Microscope? Glasses?... tell me..


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## AWP (May 6, 2011)

I narrowed down to a type based on the division I plan to shoot in, so a 1-4 ish power scope is great.

Do you have any freaking idea how many 1-4ish power scopes are out there? Reticle choices, price, who makes good glass, who doesn't, who has good customer service, who doesn't, Mil-dot or MOA.....

And then once you finally decide on the glass you need a mount for it which is a whole other series of choices.

The best part is that it isn't uncommon to have an optic which costs more than the rifle it is mounted on.

I've finally figured it all out for my own uses, but damn....that's only taken a few months of research and I still have to work on Mil-dot calculations for hold overs and range estimation.


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## Mac_NZ (May 6, 2011)

Ranger Psych has a 1-4x IIRC, maybe he will chime in on its performance.


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## Totentanz (May 6, 2011)

Just throwing one onto your pile:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=338333

Shot one on a friend's AR a few weeks back and liked it so much that I bought one myself. The BDC reticle worked well out to 400m, and for 1/4 the price of the ACOG I originally had in mind, it was pretty hard to beat.

Don't know much about 3-gun matches, your budget, quality expectations (I'm by no means a glass connoisseur), but figured it was worth a mention.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 6, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> I narrowed down to a type based on the division I plan to shoot in, so a 1-4 ish power scope is great.
> 
> Do you have any freaking idea how many 1-4ish power scopes are out there? Reticle choices, price, who makes good glass, who doesn't, who has good customer service, who doesn't, Mil-dot or MOA.....
> 
> ...



Are you going to shoot open class?


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## Headshot (May 6, 2011)

As far as personal optics and economy goes, you can't beat Nikon for clarity and price.


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## Ranger Psych (May 6, 2011)

Negative. I don't have a 1-4... I have a 2.5-10x56 Trijicon Accupoint... which does come in a mil dot reticle, tritium and fiber optic powered, 2.5 is cake for CQM style shit. I personally like it considering my AR's a pseudo-SPR style build anyway. I'll be replacing the Leupold on the 7 mag with the high magnification variant they make, and when finances allow the upgrading to 7.62 for primary rifles for the family, they'll be topped with this same scope.


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## AWP (May 6, 2011)

JAB said:


> Are you going to shoot open class?



Tactical. I believe Limited allows a red dot, tactical allows a scope.



Headshot said:


> As far as personal optics and economy goes, you can't beat Nikon for clarity and price.



I looked at their scopes but didn't care for the reticle on their 1-4 offering.


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## Mac_NZ (May 6, 2011)

I stand corrected, thanks RP.

Well Free dare I say it S&B short dot maybe?  I know there bigger scopes are sexual, never used the 1-4 myself though.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 6, 2011)

What organzation?


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## AWP (May 6, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> I stand corrected, thanks RP.
> 
> Well Free dare I say it S&B short dot maybe? I know there bigger scopes are sexual, never used the 1-4 myself though.



If I came home with a $2500 S&B my next purchase would be a lawyer.



JAB said:


> What organzation?



USPSA


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## Mac_NZ (May 6, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> If I came home with a $2500 S&B my next purchase would be a lawyer.



What's the point in being an amoral war profiteer if you can't spend the big bucks on flash toys   How much did your rifle cost?


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## AWP (May 6, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> What's the point in being an amoral war profiteer if you can't spend the big bucks on flash toys  How much did your rifle cost?


 
I think I have about 1500 in my rifle. While I'd maybe do a few things differently now, I'm still very pleased with the results, especially since it is my first build. Once I have my optic I'm just going to shoot. I'd rather spend the money on ammo than the "perfect" set up.


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## Mac_NZ (May 6, 2011)

You lucky bastard.

It would cost me around NZ$10k to build a decent rifle.  A Bushmaster is NZ$7.5k on its own.  Don't get me started on the licensing costs.
http://www.guncity.co.nz/223-bushmaster-ar15-carbine-xidp231429.html


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## pardus (May 7, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> You lucky bastard.
> 
> It would cost me around NZ$10k to build a decent rifle. A Bushmaster is NZ$7.5k on its own. Don't get me started on the licensing costs.
> http://www.guncity.co.nz/223-bushmaster-ar15-carbine-xidp231429.html



Mate I won't even tell you what my AR cost, you'd being crying for days...

Can you not buy a 'cheap' semi auto .22 then import a cheap AR and swap the .22 with the cops?

Let me think, I may still have a rifle or two buried somewhere back there... lol


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## TLDR20 (May 7, 2011)

Can you get an ELCAN?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 7, 2011)

This is a cheap'o that might be worth a try...

http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-1-4x24-CMR-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P45852.aspx

I have a friend who uses the Nikon M223 1-4x, he seems to be happy with it. I use the M223 3-12x on one of my DMR's and it works pretty damn good. Really like the BDC reticale they came out with....

I just picked up a Night Force 5-22x 50 for $1200, the normal MSRP is about $1900.......So there are deals to be had, you might check out Snipers Hide for a 1-4x


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## AWP (May 7, 2011)

I've pretty much settled on this one:
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx

I was mainly lamenting that there are so many options for a scope a n00b like myself will spend a great deal of time figuring out what's what, not to mention the cost of a good optic. It is a little mind-blowing.


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## surgicalcric (May 8, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> ...I was mainly lamenting that there are so many options for a scope a n00b like myself will spend a great deal of time figuring out what's what, not to mention the cost of a good optic. It is a little mind-blowing.



So right you are brother.

Prior to this trip I dropped 1,000.00 on a 5.56mm - 16" heavy barrel, flat top receiver, with troy TRX tube and then sat out to find an optic I would like to run on my new toy (as if I didnt have enough on my other guns.)

I would really like a Leupy 1.1-8 but cant really really justify the 3,500.00+ one would cost.

Sometimes you can just never be happy with what you have, or at least I cant.


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## Manolito (May 8, 2011)

Just wait until new optics means new glasses


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## HOLLiS (May 8, 2011)

One  of the price reasonable scope are the Alpin models.  I have been looking at one with 30mm tubes for around $300 from Optic planet.  I had a chance to handle a few, they seem really well made.   I am basically a Burris/Leopold fan.   The rifle that I am going to mount it on, is a 6.8SPC AR varminter.


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## Ranger Psych (May 8, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> I've pretty much settled on this one:
> http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx
> 
> I was mainly lamenting that there are so many options for a scope a n00b like myself will spend a great deal of time figuring out what's what, not to mention the cost of a good optic. It is a little mind-blowing.



I can get Trijicon stuff, even shipped by me from up here to you, for around a hundred cheaper.  Have you handled any of the Trij stuff in person?


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## pardus (May 9, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> Negative. I don't have a 1-4... I have a 2.5-10x56 Trijicon Accupoint... which does come in a mil dot reticle, tritium and fiber optic powered, 2.5 is cake for CQM style shit. I personally like it considering my AR's a pseudo-SPR style build anyway. I'll be replacing the Leupold on the 7 mag with the high magnification variant they make, and when finances allow the upgrading to 7.62 for primary rifles for the family, they'll be topped with this same scope.



How do you like the illuminated dot on this? Which color did you get and are you happy with the color of the dot?


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## Ranger Psych (May 9, 2011)

It's a yellow dot. Green is brighter w/ tritium, but to be honest I didn't really care nor do I care a whole lot what color the dot IS.

Daylight, you have a large duplex reticle encompassing the entire area of the scope's field of view... so that gets you homed in pretty well just like the dot and crosshatched ring on Eotechs. Nighttime, it's a dot of light against a dark background, not nearly as nice as a full illuminated reticle... however, when I was handed a nightforce to play with (their 1-4x variant) I found that I HAD to have the illuminator on to even be able to see the reticle easily..

All in all, I'm happy with what I got. What I would get different is really nitpicky, I'd get green because tritium glows green naturally so it will be the brightest. I also would get a mildot reticle just because they can prove handy in some circumstances.


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## pardus (May 9, 2011)

Great, thanks for the breakdown.


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