# Surefire



## tmroun01 (Jan 3, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with the surefire E2D, or surefire lights in general? Looking to become a first time surefire owner.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 3, 2011)

What are you looking at using it for?  Depending on the use, there are a lot less expensive flashlights on the market that could do the job just as well.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a G2Z (LED, not incandescent bulb) I carry almost everywhere I go with a red flip-up cover.  I also have a Classic Universal Weapon light and a couple of those HL1 helmet lights.  I only paid for the G2Z, so I can't complain about any of the others. 

Seriously though, I've really liked them.  They put out good light and have performed well for me for a few years.


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## fox1371 (Jan 3, 2011)

As previously stated, it really depends on what you're using it for.  Pelican makes some good lights as well.  I own both Surefire and Pelican lights.  Surefire does put out a hell of a lot of light in a small package.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

Surefire lights are on my HK45 and 1911 as well as my rifle.  Surefire foreends are on all team 870s.  I have a couple or three SF handheld lights as well.  None of them are treated gently, and none have ever failed.  My preference is LED lights, but their incandescent line is reliable as well.

The others are right; the mission drives the gear train.  But Surefire will not disappoint in terms of quality or reliability.


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## tmroun01 (Jan 3, 2011)

I planned on taking it on my deployment with me and using it as a general purpose light/and or a weapon light.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

The E2D only puts out about 60 lumens. You could mount it on an M4, but it wouldn't be my first choice. It would be a fine GP light, though. I guess the unit isn't issuing lights? Seems like they should be. When my old unit was getting ready to deploy, we got flooded with all kinds of new toys.

If I were deploying and had to get my own light, I'd get one of Surefire's V-series lights (combined white and IR capability) like this one http://www.surefire.com/M620V . Granted, it's pricey (SF does a discount, if I recall correctly), but the ability to put out a shitload of IR light may be useful to you depending on your mission.

You might also just consider mounting an X300 pistol light on the carbine. It puts out almost 3 times the light of the E2D (170 lumens vs 60). I have that light on my duty pistol and it is phenomenal in CQB settings.


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## tmroun01 (Jan 3, 2011)

from what I've been told from "higher up" we aren't getting them but its the army so its always subject to change I guess. Thanks policemedic!


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## Marauder06 (Jan 3, 2011)

tmroun01 said:


> I planned on taking it on my deployment with me and using it as a general purpose light/and or a weapon light.



If you put it on your weapon you probably want to leave it on your weapon.  I found a little headlamp or even one of those little "photon lights" attached to the uniform or to dog tags to be good for general use.  If you're going to have a flashlight on your weapon for anything other than finding your way back and forth to the latrine at night, I'd go ahead and shell out the coin for a Surefire.  Otherwise, go to Wal-Mart, buy a set of 1" scope rings, go over to the next aisle and get a flat black Ray-O-Vac or similar flashlight and put that on your weapon.  That's what I did my first deployment, before I was in a unit that issued Surefire as standard issue.


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## Polar Bear (Jan 3, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> If you put it on your weapon you probably want to leave it on your weapon. I found a little headlamp or even one of those little "photon lights" attached to the uniform or to dog tags to be good for general use. If you're going to have a flashlight on your weapon for anything other than finding your way back and forth to the latrine at night, I'd go ahead and shell out the coin for a Surefire. Otherwise, go to Wal-Mart, buy a set of 1" scope rings, go over to the next aisle and get a flat black Ray-O-Vac or similar flashlight and put that on your weapon. That's what I did my first deployment, before I was in a unit that issued Surefire as standard issue.



Some sound advice great post


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## 8'Duece (Jan 3, 2011)

I currently run Surefire 6P LED's with VTAC mounts and a VFG.  It's enough light and easy to use.

But, I do think the Surefire V Series IR/White lights are the shizzle if you can stand putting out $550.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

I completely agree that anything mounted to a weapon is meant to stay there.  Loctite is a beautiful thing.  Keep removing it and you're likely to find you don't have it when you need it most.

If you're going to be hunting Haji, Taliban, etc., I'd invest in a good dedicated light for both your primary and secondary weapons.  I think any fighting rifle needs a sling (and not the POS GI sling), an optic, and a light.  It sucks your chain of command doesn't agree.

Mara's advice on photon-type lights is excellent, by the way.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 3, 2011)

Buy this for your rifle…
http://www.lapolicegear.com/streamlight-tlr1-weaponlight.html

And this for general purpose…
http://www.lapolicegear.com/starhe.html

My personal opinion on Surefire has changed over the past few years; their product is too costly IMHO. I have broken an M900 tac light, several G2’s and several of the Army mass ordered weapon mounted crap and between buying bulbs, batteries and replacing switches I have began to say fuck SureFire. Do you have to buy all the bulbs, batteries and switches for Stream-Light or others, yep but it’s a lot cheaper and basically the same quality of product. The weapon mount light I posted on top is great, I use it on my Carbine and love it, it has not broke yet and no bulbs or switches (very light weight). Head lamps are the way to go when you’re on the FOB or COB, allows you to use your hands for all kinds of shit. I would still buy a hand held for basic searches and mission essential stuff. It will keep you from having the muzzle of your weapon all over the damn place, and from having a big bright bulls-eye on your head when in Indian country. I would say a G2 by surefire would be your best bet for a hand held.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

I never liked the G2s; plastic lights suck.  I much prefer the metal lights.  Bulbs are a problem with any incandescent light, particularly when mounted on a weapon.  It's one of the reasons I love LEDs.

You do make a good point about searches.  Using a weapon mounted light for searches can be bad mojo and it's an ongoing issue in my world.  Sometimes it's appropriate, most of the time it's not.


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## Arrow 4 (Jan 3, 2011)

The E2D only puts out about 60 lumens. You could mount it on an M4, but it wouldn't be my first choice. It would be a fine GP light, though. I guess the unit isn't issuing lights? 

Actually the E2D LED puts out a whopping 200 lumens in a very small package. The problem with putting it on a weapon is that it has a 2 stage switch (almost said trigger) 1st stage is 200 lumens, 2nd stage is 5 lumens. Also with the scalloped tail cap, it can be difficult to manipulate the light, with gloves on or under stress.

SureFire did just out with the G2X Tactical & 6PX Tactical, both are 200 lumens of white LED light, tail switch with momentary on/off or twist for constant on. Either of these with a one inch scope ring will give you a good weapon light well under a hundred bucks.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

Arrow 4 said:


> The E2D only puts out about 60 lumens. You could mount it on an M4, but it wouldn't be my first choice. It would be a fine GP light, though. I guess the unit isn't issuing lights?



You're right- I was quoting the incandescent stats.  I should have specified.  You're also right about the issues with the 2-stage switch on the LED model; simple switches are best.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 3, 2011)

policemedic said:


> I never liked the G2s; plastic lights suck. I much prefer the metal lights. Bulbs are a problem with any incandescent light, particularly when mounted on a weapon. It's one of the reasons I love LEDs.
> 
> You do make a good point about searches. Using a weapon mounted light for searches can be bad mojo and it's an ongoing issue in my world. Sometimes it's appropriate, most of the time it's not.


 
I like the G2 b/c it’s cheap and when I break it I don’t feel like kicking a puppy. I have seen all the HSLD aluminum S/F lights break just like my cheap G2’s but those dudes end up shelling out $250 for a new light when I am spending $40.

As for the weapon mounted lights, I have used the scope ring with G2 and it works okay. However when strobing, working dark holes and flooding during live fire, I have found the push cap switch sucks balls. I like the toggle style switch on the M3 tac-light and the TLR 1 sports the same switch in an aluminum body. Smaller, lighter and easier to use IMO, but I know how opinions go…

Big issues on deployment where you will need light:

Power is out on FOB, need to find chow hall or shitter.
FOBBIT Police want lights and reflective belt when walking at night.
Weapon mounted for patrols and raids, it can suck to use NVG’s at night in the city.
Hand held for searching vehicles, cleared buildings and general tactical uses. 
I also prefer a hand held when working with a pistol, allows me to use more techniques when in low light.


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## Arrow 4 (Jan 3, 2011)

JAB, lots of great points! Here's the key, weapon light on every gun, a handheld, and a back-up.....helmet lights are the shit too.


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

JAB said:


> As for the weapon mounted lights, I have used the scope ring with G2 and it works okay. However when strobing, working dark holes and flooding during live fire, I have found the push cap switch sucks balls. I like the toggle style switch on the M3 tac-light and the TLR 1 sports the same switch in an aluminum body. Smaller, lighter and easier to use IMO, but I know how opinions go…



This is why I prefer a remote pressure switch, but diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.



JAB said:


> Big issues on deployment where you will need light:
> 
> Power is out on FOB, need to find chow hall or shitter.


No light required, follow your nose to either place.  But be careful, you may confuse them.



JAB said:


> FOBBIT Police want lights and reflective belt when walking at night.


fuck fobbits...fuck 'em in the ass



JAB said:


> I also prefer a hand held when working with a pistol, allows me to use more techniques when in low light.


With the new M9 sporting a light rail, I wonder if Uncle Sam will start issuing pistol lights.  I used an adapter on mine to fit the light.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 3, 2011)

policemedic said:


> With the new M9 sporting a light rail, I wonder if Uncle Sam will start issuing pistol lights. I used an adapter on mine to fit the light.



Unit funds dependent, I bet some O4 in an S shop will have one on his shoulder holstered M9A1 while joe will still be told we don't have enough pistols for you, much less the light to go on it. Not that I really want to lug around the extra weight or anything, the Iraqi Police Glock 19's are cheap and easy to conceal/light weight carry. ;)


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## policemedic (Jan 3, 2011)

JAB said:


> Unit funds dependent, I bet some O4 in an S shop will have one on his shoulder holstered M9A1 while joe will still be told we don't have enough pistols for you, much less the light to go on it.



fuck fobbits...fuck 'em in the ass


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## pardus (Jan 4, 2011)

I think these bright lights are fun and make life easier when you are in the rear with the gear, but I don't understand the combat function of them outside of urban ops/door kicking.

I've used a AA maglite for 20+ years with a red filter, does everything I need in the field, never had to change the bulb.
Maglites are tough and cheap too.
Anything brighter is akin to a neon light announcing your location.



tmroun01 said:


> I planned on taking it on my deployment with me and using it as a general purpose light/and or a weapon light.



Why does a LRS guy need a weapon light?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 4, 2011)

pardus said:


> I think these bright lights are fun and make life easier when you are in the rear with the gear, but I don't understand the combat function of them outside of urban ops/door kicking.
> 
> I've used a AA maglite for 20+ years with a red filter, does everything I need in the field, never had to change the bulb.
> Maglites are tough and cheap too.
> ...



There are a lot of tactics-techniques-procedures that tactical lights bring to the table for both urban and rural operations. In a rural operation noise and light discipline is very important when you are in snoop and poop mode. However, when you are conducting searches/sweeps, trying to push the enemy into a location or deny a location the light is very useful. Most of all tactical lights are great when going against an enemy who has NVG’s, probes and floods are extremely effective against an undisciplined enemy.

As for weapon mounted lights, they were basically designed for CQB. So your assessment is on point, they are best used in urban environments, the primary purpose being illuminating dark areas while being able to utilize your weapon system. It also brings a psychological effect to the table, as to the violence of action with bright light in the face added (think deer caught in the head lights).

Another issue that does pertain to the use of a weapon mounted light and the use in SR type operations is clearing out cache points, hides and unknown areas within the immediate area like caves. Optimally you would be able to stay blacked out and should, however CQB while using NVG’s sucks and is more difficult. If I was on a SR type team (Sniper, Scouts, LRS ect) I would want a weapon mounted light but I would put some safety measures on it to ensure I did not have a negligent light discharge (cover the lens, cover the switch or pull the batts until I felt I needed them).


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## SpitfireV (Jan 4, 2011)

I like my 6P LED. It's good for LE. I found great use using it to check for concealments in paper and for reading letters through envelopes at the search bench haha. We could open it by law by sometimes you don't want to tip them off.


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## mike_cos (Jan 4, 2011)

pardus said:


> I think these bright lights are fun and make life easier when you are in the rear with the gear, but I don't understand the combat function of them outside of urban ops/door kicking.


agree!

 surefire? Mounted on rifle? no thanks i don't want to become "suretarget"  TANS it's safer


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## buffalo61 (Jan 4, 2011)

policemedic said:


> fuck fobbits...fuck 'em in the ass



How else am I to be sure that I find my way safely to the 24 hour chow hall at night?  And look cool doing it?


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## x SF med (Jan 4, 2011)

Ok, I have a flashlight problem...  I have an xtremebeam, 3 surefires, and a bunch of no-name lights - none are mounted on weapons at this time.  The xtremebeam is pretty cool - 3 levels of straight light starting at 200 lumens and down to about 50, a kick-ass 200 lumen strobe (that will give you epileptic fits when it hits you in the eyes) and an SOS strobe - I have rechargeable cr123's for it.  Just got an LED surefire 6PX, and I have 2 incandescent E2Es...   now if I could only afford mounts for them...

I'm not goins to extoll the virtues of any one brand, but if you need a light, it sucks not to have one handy.  I try to have 2 within reach most times.


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## 0699 (Jan 4, 2011)

I've got a 6P in my pocket right now that I've been carrying since 2005.  Never had to do anything except change batteries.  I use it all the time.  Also carry a G2 in my vehicle and I've never had any problems with it.  I like their products and don't see a reason to change.


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## buffalo61 (Jan 5, 2011)

We got issued Surefires before we came out here.  Not bad, but the eat batteries like no other, as I'm sure most flashlights in that category do.  I have an LED Maglight that I carry on me that seems to work fairly well.

Like the Troll said, it sucks not to have one when you need one.


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## Arrow 4 (Jan 6, 2011)

buffalo61 the reason your SureFire's eat batteries is they issued you incandescant lights for use with IR filters. If you had an LED lights your batteries would last up to 10 times longer, but IR filters don't work in that spectrum of light to produce useable light for NVG's....hence SureFire's V-series weapons lights.


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## Mac_NZ (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a Surefire helmet light, classic universal weapons light for my rifle and another one for my 226 that is older that QC.  I like them but I've never tried anything else to be a good judge.  They worked so I never bothered replacing them.


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