# Russia looking for a prisoner swap…



## Ooh-Rah (May 14, 2022)

My initial reaction being, “_eh, that’s okay, you keep her._”

Reports: Russia wants 'Merchant of Death' in exchange for Brittney Griner

For the first time since Brittney Griner’s arrest almost three months ago, Russia appears to have publicly signaled its asking price for her safe return, if multiple reports by Russian state media are to be believed.

Russia is looking to exchange the WNBA star in a prisoner swap for notorious convicted arms trafficker Viktor Bout, several state-owned Russian news outlets reported Friday, citing unnamed government sources.

Bout, whose exploits earned him the nickname the “Merchant of Death,” flooded fierce conflicts in Africa and the Middle East with weapons, U.S. authorities say. He was arrested during a sting operation in Thailand in 2008, extradited to the U.S. and sentenced to 25 years for conspiracy to kill U.S. citizens, delivery of anti-aircraft missiles and providing aid to a terrorist organization.

*ETA*:
If you were not aware, and personally I applaud you if that is true, she is sitting in a Russian prison because she tried to take Vape cartridges filled with hashish oil through customs.


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## Gunz (May 14, 2022)

The Russians must have a keen appreciation of the power of wokeness in America to convince them this is an even trade. There's no way anybody in their right mind would ever release the likes of Viktor Bout for her. And yet, Black Lives Matter to the point where it just might fly.

PS. This is the woman who wanted the National Anthem banned from WNBA games.


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## Blizzard (May 14, 2022)

I agree with @Ooh-Rah on this...hard pass.


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## Marauder06 (May 14, 2022)

would still be a better trade than the one we made for Bowe Berghdahl


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## AWP (May 14, 2022)

This is satire, right? This is some... Duffel Bee shit or something, right? They want us to give them a war criminal in exchange for... a basketball player? Okay, okay, I'd ship Lebron to the USSR for a bucket of cheese, but this move is hilarious.

Just keep her.


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## Locksteady (May 17, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> My initial reaction being, “_eh, that’s okay, you keep her._”
> 
> Reports: Russia wants 'Merchant of Death' in exchange for Brittney Griner
> 
> ...


I am surprised and grateful that the predictable segments of the American public haven't played right into Putin's hands by amplifying any unrest over her confinement.


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## AWP (May 17, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> I am surprised and grateful that the predictable segments of the American public haven't played right into Putin's hands by amplifying any unrest over her confinement.



I agree, but we're assuming the American people know what we're talking about.


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## Locksteady (May 17, 2022)

AWP said:


> I agree, but we're assuming the American people know what we're talking about.


Too too true.


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## RackMaster (Dec 8, 2022)

Let's all rejoice...  


Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN


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## 757 (Dec 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Let's all rejoice...
> 
> 
> Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN


Dislike because I wish it was Paul Whelan instead...IF we were gonna prisoner swap...which I'm also not happy about...


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Let's all rejoice...
> 
> 
> Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN


In my cartoon bubble, I’m choosing to imagine that at some point in the near future, he will wish he was back in American prison. I’m guessing mother Russia will not be gentle when they ask him what he told the Americans.

Probably won’t make a difference to her, but I’d also like to believe that the next time the national anthem plays, her ass will stand at attention instead of kneeling .


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## AWP (Dec 8, 2022)

(smirk) I was worth 5 terrorists, not 1. - B.B.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Let's all rejoice...
> 
> 
> Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN


Hate because we should have left her blood money seeking ass to rot. She is not worth Viktor Bout...but whatever, clownshoes administration.



Ooh-Rah said:


> In my cartoon bubble, I’m choosing to imagine that at some point in the near future, he will wish he was back in American prison. I’m guessing mother Russia will not be gentle when they ask him what he told the Americans.
> 
> Probably won’t make a difference to her, but I’d also like to believe that the next time the national anthem plays, her ass will stand at attention instead of kneeling .



He'll either find a hospital window off the 15th floor or go right back to work. Doubt he told us much otherwise he wouldn't have been in prison.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Let's all rejoice...
> 
> 
> Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN


I'm glad she's home.  I don't like our people being held by anyone, for any reason.  See also:  Bowe Bergdahl.

That said, two days ago we (US) dropped the Keshoggi thing. Now we're giving up the 'merchant of death" for a minor athlete. Seems kind of... unethical. But hey, good thing President Biden runs "the most ethical administration" we've ever seen.

The above snark notwithstanding, I think all governments are, and by rights ought to be, amoral and aethical (is that a word?) when it comes to international affairs.  But I think we end up getting hosed in our attempts to bring our people home.  It always seems very asymettrical, in that we give up a lot more than we receive.  . See also:  Bowe Berghdahl.


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## Blizzard (Dec 8, 2022)

Fuck this woman.  That is all.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600913129747419136


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## 757 (Dec 8, 2022)

In fairness, this is the first time anyone has been aware of a WNBA trade.


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## Muppet (Dec 8, 2022)

Fuck that bitch. It's all about race and sexual orientation. 

No doubt, this nonsense will reverberate for decades. 

Are we even surprised by what this fucking government does?


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 8, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Fuck that bitch. It's all about race and sexual orientation.
> 
> No doubt, this nonsense will reverberate for decades.
> 
> Are we even surprised by what this fucking government does?


I wish you would stop suppressing how you really feel and let it all out! 😂


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## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Fuck this woman.  That is all.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600913129747419136


Wait, Paul Whelan wasn't part of the deal??  We let Viktor Bout go for... Brittney Griner?   Jesus we suck at prisoner exchanges. 

Well at least Whelan has his white privilege to keep him warm and fed in the gulag.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/politics/paul-whelan-cnn-interview-brittney-griner/index.html


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## AWP (Dec 8, 2022)

In other news, Vice President Harris made a statement today: "No woman of color should ever go to jail for a minor drug possession charge. That's a black man's role in our society and I should know."


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## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Wait, Paul Whelan wasn't part of the deal??  We let Viktor Bout go for... Brittney Griner?   Jesus we suck as prisoner exchanges.
> 
> Well at least Whelan has his white privilege to keep him warm and fed in the gulag.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/politics/paul-whelan-cnn-interview-brittney-griner/index.html


When you responded earlier, I was pretty shocked that you didn't mention it- makes sense now.

For the record- Whelan's charges are completely made up (or at least appear to be). Griner's charges were 100% valid- she actually did what the Russian's accused her of doing.

And now, we have no leverage to get Whelan. Russia got what they wanted (aren't we at war with the evil Russians? Why are we negotiating with them now?) and we got absolutely nothing in return.

Disgusted isn't even the start to how I feel about this.

EDIT TO ADD- What the fuck is the difference between Mark Fogel and Brittney Griner, again?! Fogel had a small amount of prescribed medical marijuana and got 14 years- but Griner gets out? Wow, I wonder what the difference between Fogel's case and Griner's case are?!


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## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> When you responded earlier, I was pretty shocked that you didn't mention it- makes sense now.
> 
> For the record- Whelan's charges are completely made up (or at least appear to be). Griner's charges were 100% valid- she actually did what the Russian's accused her of doing.
> 
> ...


If Whelan didn’t do what the Russians said he did, I.e. espionage on the US’s behalf, we should get him back.  False charges, national sovereignty, “don’t fuck with our citizens,” etc.  

But check this out—if he **did** do what the Russians said he did, we should try even harder. “Go into this hostile country and commit acts that might get you killed.  Don’t worry, we totally got your back… and less it’s more politically expedient for us to ignore you in favor of the demographic du jour. 

Griner was in jail for something she **did** do.  For herself.  Her sentence was bullshit but she committed a criminal act in a country that DGAF about her excerpt for her utility as a political pawn. As I said earlier I’m glad she’s home. I’m deeply resentful that Whelan isn’t.


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## Cookie_ (Dec 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> If Whelan didn’t do what the Russians said he did, I.e. espionage on the US’s behalf, we should get him back.  False charges, national sovereignty, “don’t fuck with our citizens,” etc.
> 
> But check this out—if he **did** do what the Russians said he did, we should try even harder. “Go into this hostile country and commit acts that might get you killed.  Don’t worry, we totally got your back… and less it’s more politically expedient for us to ignore you in favor of political expediency and the demographic du jour.
> 
> Griner was in jail for something she **did** do.  For herself.  Her sentence was bullshit but she committed a criminal act in a country that DGAF about her excerpt for her utility as a political pawn. As I said earlier I’m glad she’s home. I’m deeply resentful that Whelan isn’t.



Whelan definitely seems like a patsy as opposed to an actual spy.

Dude was longtime friends with a FSB agent. He liked mentioning it so much that his family was aware of the guy, and his parents may have even met him. 

Pretty easy to plant a USB on him and claim he was "soliciting Intel sources" that way.

Paul Whelan: The strange case of the ex-marine jailed for spying in Russia


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## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

Did some more reading up on Whelan.  He was a Marine, but apparently not a very good one.  To say the least.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Wait, Paul Whelan wasn't part of the deal??  We let Viktor Bout go for... Brittney Griner?   Jesus we suck at prisoner exchanges.
> 
> Well at least Whelan has his white privilege to keep him warm and fed in the gulag.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/politics/paul-whelan-cnn-interview-brittney-griner/index.html



No sir, we did not.  We let Viktor Bout go to keep the price of oil steady...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600907793388666881


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## Gunz (Dec 8, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’d also like to believe that the next time the national anthem plays, her ass will stand at attention instead of kneeling .



Don’t stop believing. Hold on to that feeling.


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## Locksteady (Dec 8, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Whelan definitely seems like a patsy as opposed to an actual spy.
> 
> Dude was longtime friends with a FSB agent. He liked mentioning it so much that his family was aware of the guy, and his parents may have even met him.
> 
> ...


This brings to mind a few parallels with former Marine Hekmati in Iran from a decade earlier.

Once tortured in Iranian jail, ex-Marine fights spy claims


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## Gunz (Dec 9, 2022)

This is the best thing to ever happen to Brittany Griner. In publicity alone it’s worth tens of millions. She’ll get endorsement contracts. She’s making a 100k before taxes playing women’s BB. Her male counterparts are making astronomical salaries in comparison.

Nobody knew her. Now everybody knows her. She doesn’t have baggage like Bergdahl, and her sexuality and race are custom made for today’s over-exaggerated woke-culture advertising trends.

The world is yours, chico, and everything in it, so say goodnight to the bad guy.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

She’ll be on the the paid speaker circuit for years.  Big money in that.


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## 757 (Dec 9, 2022)




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## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Did some more reading up on Whelan.  He was a Marine, but apparently not a very good one.  To say the least.


Gotta address this one sir. If ‘any American released is a good American’ and we can’t weigh the value of the black lesbian anti-American bball player, then we also get to completely ignore this guy’s service record. 

Just wanna be consistent in our approach to this one. Berghdahl was also a historic piece of shit, but we figure that out from DC.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)




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## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Gotta address this one sir. If ‘any American released is a good American’ and we can’t weigh the value of the black lesbian anti-American bball player, then we also get to completely ignore this guy’s service record.
> 
> Just wanna be consistent in our approach to this one. Berghdahl was also a historic piece of shit, but we figure that out from DC.



I'd have prioritized Whelan over Greiner not because he's a former Marine or anything, but because he's not a celebrity. His story doesn't have the social media reach of Greiner's. Her family and friends can keep her case (if not her) alive with a simple post seen by millions within days if not hours. Whelan's not so fortunate.

Every American is equal, but at some point you have to rack and stack, you know?


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## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'd have prioritized Whelan over Greiner not because he's a former Marine or anything, but because he's not a celebrity. His story doesn't have the social media reach of Greiner's. Her family and friends can keep her case (if not her) alive with a simple post seen by millions within days if not hours. Whelan's not so fortunate.
> 
> Every American is equal, but at some point you have to rack and stack, you know?


Oh I totally agree here. I am not NEARLY as good a human as people here on the board. The common counter narrative currently is, "Well, what? We shouldn't have gotten ONE American home then?" No. In that context- and considering we gave up a freaking arms dealer that planned to kill Americans- no, we should not have gotten Griner, exactly for the reason you mentioned re: visibility/zeitgeist presence. 

We should have gotten Whalen and Fogel (in that order) and then Griner. Or no one and continued to negotiate. Now we have no leverage, and what's worse- we open up the possibility that the only thing you need to do is kidnap a prominent liberal American and you can get whoever you want in return.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2022)

Gunz said:


> This is the best thing to ever happen to Brittany Griner. In publicity alone it’s worth tens of millions. She’ll get endorsement contracts. She’s making a 100k before taxes playing women’s BB. Her male counterparts are making astronomical salaries in comparison.
> 
> Nobody knew her. Now everybody knows her. She doesn’t have baggage like Bergdahl, and her sexuality and race are custom made for today’s over-exaggerated woke-culture advertising trends.
> 
> The world is yours, chico, and everything in it, so say goodnight to the bad guy.


Eh, if you follow women's basketball she's been one of the highest profile players for awhile. For a variety of reasons.


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Eh, if you follow women's basketball she's been one of the highest profile players for awhile. For a variety of reasons.



Yeah, cause she's a minority, has a vagina and is a lesbian. Plus, she's anti-American which is the Bees knees these days or are you talking about sports, sir?


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## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

757 said:


> View attachment 41095


First of all, apologies to @757 for me not noticing he beat me to this meme.

Second, I posted this meme to Havok Journal's FaceBook page this morning, and it got immediately taken down, and we got an infraction, for "violating community standards."

Our satire site, Article 107 News, got unpublished entirely a few weeks back for publishing other memes critical of Biden Administration policy.

I guess "community standards" on FaceBook means "anything the Left doesn't like.

But then again, we all already knew that.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> In other news, Vice President Harris made a statement today: "No woman of color should ever go to jail for a minor drug possession charge. That's a black man's role in our society and I should know."


That’s not true.


Marauder06 said:


> First of all, apologies to @757 for me not noticing he beat me to this meme.
> 
> Second, I posted this meme to Havok Journal's FaceBook page this morning, and it got immediately taken down, and we got an infraction, for "violating community standards."
> 
> ...


No shit?  The Chapo meme got taken down?

F-that.  I’m going to post it right now.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That’s not true.
> 
> No shit?  The Chapo meme got taken down?
> 
> F-that.  I’m going to post it right now.


Yep.  Here's the proof:


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## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

According to Facebook, the above meme violates community standards on "dangerous individuals and organizations." What is that policy, you might ask?




"Symbols, praise, or support."  Is there any of that in the above meme?  No.  No the fuck there isn't.  It's suppression of political content that FaceBook doesn't like.  Pure and simple.

What recourse do I have?  None.

FaceBook has never cared when we satirize or criticize the political right, which we do in fact do.  Only when we poke the left that shit like this happens.

Can't wait for someone to do to FaceBook what Musk is doing to Twitter.


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## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That’s not true.



Your sarcasm filter seems to have clogged over the years…


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## Blizzard (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Eh, if you follow women's basketball she's been one of the highest profile players for awhile. For a variety of reasons.


To quote my favorite sports announcer, Harry Doyle, "“In case you haven’t noticed, and judging by the attendance you haven’t..."

Let's be honest, it's the WNBA.  The audience is incredibly small and most don't follow it.  "High profile" in an event/activity no one pays acttention to is not particularly meaningful.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Your sarcasm filter seems to have clogged over the years…


LOL - what’s funny about that is that I had started that message yesterday and was going to add some ‘witty’ comments to it and forgot about it. It was sitting in ‘draft’ and I must have sent by mistake!

ETA - now I see what happened.  It was still ‘there’ when I quoted Mara and I didn’t notice.

Fail for situational awareness.

Relief for not having anything ‘too damning’ in draft that I would have to regret later!


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## Gunz (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Eh, if you follow women's basketball she's been one of the highest profile players for awhile. For a variety of reasons.



Viewership of a typical WNBA game is 350,000 +-. For the NBA, 15.1 million. High profile is a relative term.


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)




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## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Viewership of a typical WNBA game is 350,000 +-. For the NBA, 15.1 million. High profile is a relative term.


The WNBA has never turned a profit in 26 years. For all intents and purposes, the WNBA is a welfare program for very tall minority women who aren't anywhere as good as their male counterparts at basketball, or they'd just play in the NBA.


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> The WNBA has never turned a profit in 26 years. For all intents and purposes, the WNBA is a welfare program for very tall minority women who aren't anywhere as good as their male counterparts at basketball, or they'd just play in the NBA.



I swear, you and I share the same inner thoughts that come out during anger. Did we just become friends, cause I feel incredibly connected to you in a soulful and emotional way...


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## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

Let's put this to rest.


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## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Let's put this to rest.


I can't see this cause firewall, but I will bet it's great. Heart eyes for you regardless.


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## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I can't see this cause firewall, but I will bet it's great. Heart eyes for you regardless.



Bill Motherfucking Burr.


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Bill Motherfucking Burr.



That motherfucker spits truth!


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Viewership of a typical WNBA game is 350,000 +-. For the NBA, 15.1 million. High profile is a relative term.



Let's just be honest.  Women's sports will never have the same notoriety or salary level as men's sports except for Women's Tennis. (but even then sponsorship money is massively different) 

It's time for global society to understand this.


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Let's just be honest.  Women's sports will never have the same notoriety or salary level as men's sports except for Women's Tennis. (but even then sponsorship money is massively different)
> 
> It's time for global society to understand this.



Fuckers don't care. Stop being racist, phobic, and any ism the woke will accuse you of! ;)


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## RackMaster (Dec 9, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I swear, you and I share the same inner thoughts that come out during anger. Did we just become friends, cause I feel incredibly connected to you in a soulful and emotional way...









And this one, just because it's probably one of the greatest movies of all time!


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## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> According to Facebook, the above meme violates community standards on "dangerous individuals and organizations." What is that policy, you might ask?
> 
> 
> View attachment 41104
> ...


It's almost like this sort of thing only happens one way. And it's almost like this sort of thing permeates every single aspect of our society- from medicine to social media, to education, to politics, to the military. 

I'll say this plainly. The game is up. To quote the Gulag Archipelago-

We know they're lying. They know they're lying. They know we know they're lying. We know they know they're lying. And still- they lie.


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## BloodStripe (Dec 10, 2022)

NBC came out with this report first:



But then changed it after the Press Secretary said it was Griner or none. 

At the end of the day, we lost all bargaining we had to bring Whelan home.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 10, 2022)

Something I'm interested in is the Saudi angle.  My original understanding is that this was kind of a three-way package deal... US drops the Kashoggi murder issue and gives up Viktor Bout, US gets Briner and steady gas prices.  Is that the story here?  The Saudi angle seemed to be settled in NOV and this release happened in DEC, so I guess they could be related but there is a pretty substantial time difference between the two.  Is this accurate, or just another wild theory?  Anyone able to break it down for me?  And why would the two things be related (i.e. drop prosecution for oil, Bout for Griner) be connected, instead of two separate issues?


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 10, 2022)

Here's the deal. Whelan is worth a lot more to Russia than Griner. He's a former Marine, holding a former service member is way more prestigious than some lesbian sports baller. They used her up and were able trade her for a whole lot. Think about that though, this trash administration places more value on some sports baller who took Russian blood money for years to play sports ball than a foreign Marine. Par for the course for Biden though, he was a part of trading valuable prisoners for a deserter. 

Also, when is the hit being ordered ob Snowden.


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## AWP (Dec 10, 2022)

Maybe we're being a bit too hard here. President Biden has helped bring home two Americans who were held against their wills overseas. Two Americans who will spend the holidays with their loved ones and that's what a country's leadership does, right? It looks after the interests of its citizens at home and abroad.

Just because one of those Americans' action led to the deaths of several other Americans and stopping an entire goddamn WAR for a week, what's that really mean, you know? The other American is a petty criminal, really a misdemeanor international drug trafficker, who works in a heavily subsidized welfare-esque industry. They have value as citizens, right? All it took was swapping them for 6 other people, all of whom have killed or helped kill hundreds if not thousands of Americans alone and millions directly or indirectly. That's a winning formula in any sport.

I admire the president for his resolve and dedication. The courage it must have taken to ignore the dead and their families to do the right thing and bring these two Americans home. That took guts and how many of us can say we would be as strong and brave as President Biden?


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## Muppet (Dec 10, 2022)




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## Gunz (Dec 12, 2022)

Viktor hitting the talk show circuit in Moscow. 🤣

Viktor Bout says he is dazzled by changes in Moscow over long years of US captivity


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