# Deaths of elite military parachutists stun observers



## whiterose (Sep 14, 2008)

Deaths of elite military parachutists stun observers 


> The recent deaths of three elite military parachutists near Marana, Ariz. are a lot like three fatal lightning strikes in the same place.
> It's virtually unheard of, experts say. And it's raising eyebrows in the world of covert warfare.
> All the victims were special-operations troops who had returned safely from repeat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. All had extensive training in the aerial stealth techniques used to infiltrate enemy terrain - methods each was practicing on the day he plunged to his death.
> That's what makes the deaths so confounding.
> ...


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## Trip_Wire (Sep 14, 2008)

whiterose:

The SEALs run this school and it's a different facility than the US Army MFF school at The Yuma test Center. There has to be some reason for these deaths, all happening at this facility and few if any at the Army's facility. SEALs have been known to play fast and loose with things on occasion. IMO, the training conducted there needs to be looked at VERY thoroughly.


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## JBS (Sep 14, 2008)

RIP, warriors.


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## Gypsy (Sep 14, 2008)

Terrible, I hope they find the causes of these horrible incidents.  RIP, Gents.


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## RackMaster (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm sure the answer will be found but I doubt the public will find out; that's the way of the beast sadly.

RIP.


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## AWP (Sep 15, 2008)

Marana is an interesting place. Home for a number of years to CIA aviation activities, a now defunct civilian dropzone, a civilian aircraft "boneyard" and now the SOCOM training facility cited in the article.

My limited understanding of the fatalities has almost no commonality between them.

I have yet to see a public report on any Army MFF fatalities and I'd be surprised if the Navy released details about these as well. MAYBE the public attention they've received will see some details leak out, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm a civilian freefaller, not a military freefaller, but there are a few similarities. I'd have to pull the numbers but I believe civvie jumping sees about 30-35 deaths on average per year. I think last year was 18, the year before that around 40. A civvie jumper usually jumps a helluva lot more than a military MFF team. In the civvie world a lot can go wrong for numerous reasons. In the military world the rigs are more complex and then they go and hang a weapon off of it, a ruck, oxygen masks that reduce visibility, NVGs, HAHO ops have their own unique equipment.....

In short, there are a metric shit-ton of things to deal with for a MFF jumper even when things go right. 

The military is good about about "blood rules" where when someone dies they figure what went wrong and they fix it....rules written in blood. We may never know the causes of these fatalities, but I'm sure IF there are additional fatalities at this location the only thing they will have in common is the airport the flight originated from.

BSBD.


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## AWP (Sep 16, 2008)

A study from the 90's, it gives an idea of the injuries sustained, tons of statistics, even some stuff about static-line injuries with round parachutes.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_199907/ai_n8866150/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1



> Military free fall or HALO (high altitude-low opening) is a distinct form of tactical parachuting used by the elite forces of the U.S. military. This study was undertaken to examine the type, location, and mechanism of injuries sustained by the military HALO parachutist during training. A retrospective study identified 134 parachutists with 141 injuries attributed to HALO training. The most common injuries were fractures (35.5%) and sprains/strains (34.7%). The sites most commonly injured were the lower extremities (52.5%), upper extremities (19.So/a), and spine (14.9%). Landing was the most frequently encountered mechanism of injury (61.2%), followed by ground free fall simulation (wind tunnel training) and canopy deployment. Night jumping, wearing of combat equipment, and use of oxygen during high-altitude jumps were all variables that contributed to injury. The military free fall parachutist is predisposed to a wide array of musculoskeletal injuries at different training phases.


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## tova (Sep 17, 2008)

RIP, Godspeed, PBS....


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## car (Sep 17, 2008)

> Landing was the most frequently encountered mechanism of injury



I've seen some stats, but I always knew that, instinctively. In the end it's "jumper error." It's fear, or the *inability to control it*.

I used to hate JMing on the last jump of the month because at least half of the jumpers on the bird were pay hurt/pay loss.

Why? Becasue they had found ways to avoid jumping, because they were scared - and so, lacked experience and confidence.

JMing those jumps was the worst! But I felt like I needed to be there - to try to instil some confidence, etc.

But, yeah, most jump injuries in the 82nd Airplane Gang (at least the times I was there) happened during landing.


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## Scotth (Sep 17, 2008)

RIP and the hope for a quick resolution to what ever problems they are having.


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## MsKitty (Sep 17, 2008)

RIP Warriors, and hopefully this isn't a case of carelessness on someone's behalf.  So tragic.


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## whiterose (Sep 18, 2008)

MsKitty said:


> RIP Warriors, and hopefully this isn't a case of carelessness on someone's behalf.  So tragic.



I too hope that this isn't a case of carelessness on an individual's behalf. But if that's really the case, the solution is relatively simple. Remove the individual, problem solved. 

Still, as one who has studied human performance and error, I doubt that a single individual is the cause of these. Even if an individual were at fault, it is usually associated with the system at large.  Things are usually more complicated.

However, authorities love it if an individual were at fault. They can just blame the individual and absolve further responsibility. They'll just "blame and train", as they call it.

I am just speaking in very general terms here, be it an airliner crash or building collapse.


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## AWP (Feb 8, 2009)

An update on the fatalities. I haven't read the PDFs in the article below, and while I have my suspicions on what caused this, I'm neither MFF nor do I know exactly was is in the redacted portions, so there's no point in me saying anything about it.

Blue Skies.

http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/279284


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## 18C4V (Feb 8, 2009)

I couldn't open the PDF's to read them.


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## SoloKing (Feb 9, 2009)

RIP brothers.


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## GunnyMack (Feb 9, 2009)

*R.I.P. Warriors*

May God continue watching over you and your families. I thank you for your service to our Country.

Semper Fi,

GunnyMack


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## hidesite (Feb 9, 2009)

R.I.P.


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## Centermass (Feb 9, 2009)

18C4V said:


> I couldn't open the PDF's to read them.



Blue Skies Always. 

18:

Are you using Adobe 9? Worked for me. Just a side note-most of it (report) has b2 redactions throughout much of it, so be prepared to gut it out when trying to put 2 and 2 together. Just an FYI


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## 18C4V (Feb 10, 2009)

Centermass said:


> Blue Skies Always.
> 
> 18:
> 
> Are you using Adobe 9? Worked for me. Just a side note-most of it (report) has b2 redactions throughout much of it, so be prepared to gut it out when trying to put 2 and 2 together. Just an FYI




Thanks. I didn't even think of checking to see if I had a current adobe.


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## picketpounder (Feb 12, 2009)

Blue skies. AATW!


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## Sgt Sisneroz68f20 (Jun 18, 2009)

Un-believable! This post just blew me away when I first read it. I'm at a loss for words.These operators were the Best!


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