# FFL 2REP & DINOPS



## CopenhagenDetox (Oct 3, 2006)

should these guys be covered under French SOF? Not saying that they should, just asking for opinions.


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Oct 3, 2006)

I have no idea, BKK gave me this list:

13eme RDP
1er RPIMA 
BFST 
CM - Commando Hubert 
CM - ECTLO
CM - Penfentenyo, Montfort, Trépel and Jaubert 
CPA10, 20 et 30 
DAOS 
GCP 
RESCO

We have just 3 in there now, and will probably add more when we get more non-us membership that want it.


----------



## glock-bkk (Oct 4, 2006)

CopenhagenDetox,

Those guys are from "Shock Troops" and Elite Regiments, Foreign Legion and 3rd RPIMa (Regiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine). DINOPS is a parachute trained combat diver unit assigned to the Legion Etranger's 6eme Regiment Etranger de Genie.

The list I gave to Boondocksaint375 cover all 'pure' Special Forces units and Regiments. The COS (Special Operations Command) is joint service unit that draws on the special operations forces of the three armed services. It may select Special units and commandos from the "Shock Troops" during OPS.


----------



## CopenhagenDetox (Oct 4, 2006)

Understood. Thanks for the input, Glock.


----------



## G-2 (Oct 7, 2006)

*If memory serves*

If my memory serves me correctly the 2rep are the best there is for free fall parachuting. Just thought I'ld add my 2 cent worth.


----------



## pardus (Oct 7, 2006)

G-2 said:


> If my memory serves me correctly the 2rep are the best there is for free fall parachuting. Just thought I'ld add my 2 cent worth.



You base that on what?

They are a regular static line Para unit.


----------



## G-2 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Not quite*

They are not just a standard static line unit. 2REP are trained in both HALO and HAHO freefall jumping technique.As for being regular their history to date reflects otherwise.


----------



## pardus (Oct 7, 2006)

They are not part of Frances SOF community.

You are saying every member of the Rep is HALO/HAHO trained?

I think not.

If im wrong please enlighten me.


----------



## G-2 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Ah*

My mistake and humble apology for the missunderstanding, I was treating the REP as a whole, GCP are HAHO and HALO.
I will apply an element of personal philosophy to my mistake, when one says "I have learned all there is to learn" then that person has stopped learning.


----------



## pardus (Oct 7, 2006)

Roger that :)


----------



## glock-bkk (Oct 7, 2006)

G-2,

2eme REP, like the 3eme RPIMa (my former regiment) operate under the command of the 11eme Division Parachutiste. Yes, each regiment contains an elite platoon with freefall specialists and that unit is called CRAP: Long range action & recon commando. "Shock Troops" make hardcore and highly-trained soldiers but they aren't SOF. Like Pradus762 said, they are "basic" airborne troopers.


----------



## G-2 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Ah*

Ex legion,
Very good sir. However I'm not sure if I would class them as basic, the history of their operations does tend to suggest they are a cut above the average.
As an example I would use Colnel Erulins 1978 2REP jump into Kolwezi (Zaire's shaba province). Anti French sentiment in the area made the Legionaires targets  anywhere they went. Despite this they managed to rescue all trapped European nationals. However if you say so I will not take it further, I assume given your particular background you know full well what your talking about.


----------



## glock-bkk (Oct 7, 2006)

I think you misunderstood me G-2... I have great respect for the Foreign Legion and I am proud of our French Elite troops. Now I have to call it "basic" because even you're an expert in combat, you may not be a SOF. A SOF personnel require greater proficiency and specialization than is normally found in conventional military units. I will post more about "Shock Troops" and others units the next few weeks...


----------



## BrunoForestier (Dec 20, 2006)

*DINOPS / GCP*

A common misconception is that the French Foreign Legion is special forces....which I'm sure many on this board already know. However in terms of esprit d'corps, ability, and training..you can equate them to the US Army Rangers. (And it's not a snub to the Rangers or their abilities). But overall and techinically, the only "Special Forces" regiments and units of the FFK that operate under the umbrella of the French Special Forces Command (COS) are the 2REP, and within the 2REP the GCP (Paratrooper Commando Group). If I'm not mistaken DINOPs of the 2REG (2nd Foreign Engineer Regiment) also fall within the COS umbrealla. Some people equate DINOPS to the Navy SEALS, which may or may not be correct, but I won't open that can of worms. Each nations warriors perform their duty as needed.


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Dec 20, 2006)

Thanks for your input


----------



## G-2 (Dec 30, 2006)

*Sense prevails and happy am I*



> Some people equate DINOPS to the Navy SEALS, which may or may not be correct, but I won't open that can of worms. Each nations warriors perform their duty as needed.


I wish this kind of sense was displayed by more people (myself included on one ocasion many years ago). I have lost count of how many times i have heard the who's better than who bullshit. So I commend you sir for your display of common sense.


----------



## dastim (Jan 21, 2013)

G-2 said:


> *Ah*
> 
> My mistake and humble apology for the missunderstanding, I was treating the REP as a whole, GCP are HAHO and HALO.
> I will apply an element of personal philosophy to my mistake, when one says "I have learned all there is to learn" then that person has stopped learning.


 
They're not true SF like the 1eme RPIMA, though they have some commando training; the level 1 and 2 courses at mt. Louis (8weeks worth) plus the 3 month Operational Chutist course (HALO/HAHO). I believe they evolved out of the old pathfinder section, then became the SOGH (High Altitude Jump Team) in 1965, then CRAP (Recon and Deep Operations Commando) in 1982, then GCP in 1999 when the French finally figured out what CRAP meant in english. Each regiment in the French para brigade has 1 to 3 ten man teams.


----------



## dastim (Jan 22, 2013)

CopenhagenDetox said:


> should these guys be covered under French SOF? Not saying that they should, just asking for opinions.


My 2 cents worth ...

DINOPS maybe. But the GCP is a poor cousin to the 1eme RPIMA and the GCM to the 13eme RDP so neither should be included in with the French 1st circle forces. Guess that's why the French consider them to be in the 2nd circle.


----------



## 0699 (Jan 23, 2013)

dastim said:


> They're not true SF like the 1eme RPIMA, though they have some commando training; the level 1 and 2 courses at mt. Louis (8weeks worth) plus the 3 month Operational Chutist course (HALO/HAHO). I believe they evolved out of the old pathfinder section, then became the SOGH (High Altitude Jump Team) in 1965, then CRAP (Recon and Deep Operations Commando) in 1982, then GCP in 1999 when the French finally figured out what CRAP meant in english. Each regiment in the French para brigade has 1 to 3 ten man teams.


 


dastim said:


> My 2 cents worth ...
> 
> DINOPS maybe. But the GCP is a poor cousin to the 1eme RPIMA and the GCM to the 13eme RDP so neither should be included in with the French 1st circle forces. Guess that's why the French consider them to be in the 2nd circle.


 
Thank god we have you and your expertise here to set straight a seven year old thread.


----------



## Soldado (Feb 26, 2013)

Always comparing the Special Forces/Tier 1/Operator/Elite/Special Operations units, no one ever wins.


----------



## pardus (Feb 26, 2013)

Soldado said:


> *Gringos* always comparing the Special Forces/Tier 1/Elite/Special Operations units, no one ever wins.


 
What do you mean by that?


----------



## Soldado (Feb 26, 2013)

pardus said:


> What do you mean by that?


 
The Americans from US, not the continent.


----------



## pardus (Feb 26, 2013)

Soldado said:


> The Americans from US, not the continent.


 
Do not make comments that disparage a country or race again on this site. Thank you.


----------



## Soldado (Feb 26, 2013)

pardus said:


> Do not make comments that disparage a country or race again on this site. Thank you.


 
You don't understand, you do not speak Spanish or do not have a Latin culture. I promise to review my commentaries and expressions.

I edited the comment.


----------



## pardus (Feb 26, 2013)

Soldado said:


> You don't understand, you do not speak Spanish or do not have a Latin culture.


 
I do understand.



Soldado said:


> promise to review my commentaries and expressions.
> 
> I edited the comment.


 
Good.


----------



## Soldado (Feb 26, 2013)

pardus said:


> I do understand.


 
Sure.



pardus said:


> Good.


 
Thank you.

Have a good day!


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 26, 2013)

Soldado said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> ...


 
It may just be a language/cultural barrier but I highly "suggest" that if a Moderator corrects you or tells you do something; do it and carry on.  This is a lot like military life, suck it up and shut your cake hole. 

Now do not respond to my post.


----------



## Rapid (Feb 27, 2013)

They're not considered SOF in the French military, and they get a bit of ribbing from actual French SOF units. They're great at what they do (as elite infantry), but their training and mentality just isn't very compatible with certain special operations duties. They can follow orders and kick some ass, but that's mostly it. 2 REP does have some specialist elements (much like all other conventional French parachute regiments), but even they are not considered to be truly on par with SOF. This isn't a put-down on their capabilities or reputation. They just have a different mission set. SOF units require a level of thinking, autonomy and initiative which isn't really what Légion training is known for distilling. Many of them are hard as nails, but we all know that's not enough to be in most SOF units. That's not to say that all Légionnaires don't have what it takes for SOF duties -- some do --, but on the whole, it's not the kind of environment/atmosphere that breeds a lot of people who could go on to be successful Special Forces soldiers or work in JSOC (easier to understand for most people here than their French equivalents). Not that it matters, as a lot of them are very happy to just be tough, crazy sons a bitches.


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 15, 2013)

I served with the CRAP / GCP of 2REP so I figure I am pretty qualified to give some history on the subject.  

Pre-1990 the French Army consisted primarily of national servicemen led by a few regulars.  This was the case in all regular French Army regiments including the 11 Choc, 1eme RPIMA and 13 RDP.    In those days the French Army had very poor SF units with a large number of national servicemen who signed longer term engagements, but who were primarily conscripts.  Although the regiments still existed there was poor training and almost all expertise had fallen away after Algeria.   

In Gulf War 1 a call was made to France to provide a SF contingent; the French Army Command found themselves in an embarrassing situation having to deploy a CRAP (SF) unit consisting of conscript soldiers into the Gulf.  Only 2REP CRAP were professionally trained SF.  At that stage 2REP GCP unbeknown to the French Government were training as SF, their commanding NCO was former Rhodesian Intelligence and there were several former SAS, SBS and other NATO and Warsaw Pact specialists serving who could provide high level training.  The GIGN also quietly trained with us.  

What happened in GW1 was a disaster with regular army CRAP making stupid uneducated errors like picking up a BLU 97 sub-munition to ask what it was before blowing off his own head off and killing and wounding +20 others including several 2REP CRAP.

After GW1 the French Command had two problems with the REP providing it's SF; firstly it was embarrassing; secondly, they were foreigners and did not have the security clearances to be conducting the clandestine SF operations or be privy to sensitive intelligence.    Up until Rwanda and Bosnia 2REP's CRAP unit which changed to GCP was very central to the COS; however, the COS was instructed to phase out 2REP from tier 1 as rapidly as possible.   So in conclusion it is not because 2REP GCP are not trained or qualified to perform SF operations including Hostage Rescue that they are tier 2 COS; it is because consisting of foreigners they do not have the security clearance.

I agree with the comments that 2REP and the Legion are not SF, also that most legionnaires don't have what it takes intellectually to be SF However, isn't this true for all armies.  The legion is a small army consisting of about 8000 engineers, cavalry, infantry and paras.  Of the legion there is only one parachute regiment, 2REP consisting of about 1300 paras.  Then there is the GCP consisting of 28 legionnaires.  Imagine the previous experience the legion has to call on; ex soldiers from the worlds elite regiments, doctors, fighter pilots, lawyers, chartered accountants, computer programmers, micro mechanical and electrical engineers that join the legion for one reason or another and then become available to 2REP GCP.  I haven't even touched on the 120 languages, where others send off soldiers to language school, the legion has native speakers.  The Legion GCP is very capable, all that limits it is it's security clearance, and this is normal and I agree with the French Government.

The translation is 30 km full kit run in 2 hrs 29 minutes as part of a week of physical entry tests to SF Free Fall school in Pau France.  13 first places and 1 second place on SF courses, and record holder of Mont Louis Commando school "pistes vert et rouge" was a legionnaire of GCP.  Not second rate by any account!


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 15, 2013)

@le rhodesian , you need to post an intro as per the site rules in the introduction forum before posting anywhere else.


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 16, 2013)

cback0220 said:


> @le rhodesian , you need to post an intro as per the site rules in the introduction forum before posting anywhere else.


My apology, I have now posted an introduction.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 16, 2013)

Okay wait a minute.... CRAP is not CRAP, but is actually some group of badass FFL Commandos, who do not take CRAP, from anyone, especially other French CRAP?


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 17, 2013)

Commando de Renseignement et d'Action dans la Profondeur "CRAP"  Translates to "Intelligence gathering and action behind enemy lines commando".   Not the biggest meanest badass legionnaires, those ones do the Combat company para frontal assaults on machine gun positions.  CRAP "equipiers" were usually selected for combination of calm temperament to work in small groups of two or three commandos where you may be in a surveillance hide together for prolonged periods of weeks to months; and physical and intellectual ability.  Minimum rank caporal, but usually Caporal Chef or Sargent and aged mid 20's to late 30's with several language skills, usually previous military operational experience also.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 17, 2013)

I was making a joke, as CRAP in English translates to shit. I meant no offense by it, and hope you did not take it as such.

Sounds like the unit you are talking about is the equivalent of our LRS (long range surveillance) units?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Surveillance


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 17, 2013)

....and no problem with the name, we all spoke English in the unit, even the non-native english speakers spoke english as we operated quite a bit with foreign armies including the Brits and US. Everyone was decently educated and often had been former officers or academics before joining the legion.  As we were a clandestine unit the name helped us sound like we weren't SF which wasn't a bad thing, it was a good laugh for us and the native english speakers were the ones upset when the name changed to GCP because some foolish senior officer suddenly had the name explained to him. 

Also no problem with other French units, we all trained and worked extensively together and many of us remained good friends having done our free fall and other courses together and some joint ops.  Most French regular GCP are smart enough to understand that because we are foreigners we don't have or expect the security clearance to be tier 1 COS, but I would like to believe that in a hot extraction they'd prefer it was us covering their backs than someone else.


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 17, 2013)

JAB, I know you were making a joke, I'm a native english speaker.  No offense taken, no stress this end your joke is good but old.


----------



## le rhodesian (Oct 17, 2013)

I suppose this is for another blog but my question is what makes a SOF operator?  I believe SOF isn't about being or doing anything no one else can do. It is about doing a lot of very normal and often small things well that practically all other specialist military units do as well or sometimes better; explosives, bridge building, communications, photography, shooting, free fall, closed circuit diving, ECM etc in one person.


----------

