# To all verified SOFs on shadowspear: Career decision?



## Astraeus14 (Apr 10, 2012)

First off I would like to apologize if this was posted in the wrong section, this question isn't directed towards a specific SOF so I wasn't going to post it under the USASOC, NSW, AFSOC, or MARSOC forums. I honestly don't understand what "Special operations discussion. For special operations forces, post in the respective country forum." means as I couldn't see this going under the North American forum. Anyways...

I've been training for a while to be in a SOF, I'm currently using the NSW Physical Fitness Guide off sealswcc.com and it's been kicking my ass every day but I manage to honestly complete each day. I'm using that guide because it's the overall best single workout program I can find on the Internet, it was designed to help people graduate BUD/S and I figured since BUD/S has a reputation for being the toughest military training in the world if I'm physically prepared for BUD/S then I should be fine for any other pipeline, and because it targets all parts of the body better than most programs. The problem is I'm training hard, but I don't know which SOF I would enjoy being part of the most (assuming I make it) and what I want to commit to while I train for the next 2 years.

I know the basic differences between all, I've practically strip searched the Internet for information. That's why I've come here, to ask a specific question and get first hand experiences from verified SOF's.

Which special operations force (in your opinion) is overall the most fun, interesting, and exciting? Which missions (FID/DA/SR/etc) do you consider to be the most interesting and give a better experience to the operator on a day to day basis? Also the inner workings such as life in general (for example I read lots of Rangers were relieved after leaving the 75th for an ODA). I know this is a very opinionated question and hard to answer, but I figured it would start a decent discussion, be informative for me, and fun for the verifieds. To help you understand where I'm getting at, I was on armyranger.com and read from a Ranger that the PJs he worked with in A'stan didn't do much while deployed (IDK if that's true but just stating his observation). He said most of the PJs sat around the FOB playing around and occasionally going on low-risk recovery missions, lots of the time recovering hardware and not people. He said their grooming standards were pretty relaxed. Obviously I know this isn't always the case, ask the PJs who were in Somalia or Takur Ghar if it was all dandy. Could any of the verified SOFs give me observations, facts, and opinions either on your SOF or others you've observed? Based off what that Ranger said and using my probably ignorant civilian judgement, it would seem as if the overall experience one would gain from Pararescue is an incredibly tough pipeline, all the "cool" schools like MFF and SCUBA, AF life while not working, not as many missions simply because personel recovery missions aren't as common or continuous (FID) as other missions, and not as likely to be pinned down by enemy gunfire as some SOFs (once again, not saying you won't as a PJ).

Whereas I've read that garrison life in the 75th is inspections, what most consider BS, tedious, etc. and deployments are packed with combat. You would have less "cool" schools in the initial pipeline. But it seems as if the Ranger mission is a little bit more appealing than the PJ mission in my opinion. The main issue here is that I've never experienced life as either, even simply military life, so I'm asking those who have seen it what they think. Which SOF in your opinion offers a more rewarding experience? 

Could someone either correct what I've posted above or add more? Also could someone elaborate on others such as the SEALs, CCTs, CSOs, and SF? 

Thanks in advance.


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## goon175 (Apr 10, 2012)

So basically you went about asking the classic "SF vs Ranger vs SEAL vs PJ" question that every 16 year old on the internet asks, just in a very wordy way.

- I have no idea what you mean by Rangers getting "relieved" for going to an ODA? Either way, in the past 10 years, very few Rangers have gone to SF.
- I don't know very many Rangers that would have such a derogatory view of PJ's, they are some of the most professional SOF guys I have ever met, and I know most Rangers share this opinion. There job is obviously much different than the 75th's.

Your question is stupid. What unit is the most "rewarding" depends on the person and where their interests lie. It's like asking what is more rewarding between being a doctor, an architect or a lawyer. They are all professionals, but have very different jobs.


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## goon175 (Apr 10, 2012)

And if you are reffering to my post on AR.com, then you are severely twisting my words:


> I personally think AFSOC is by far some of the most professional "entry level" SOF I have been around. They are truly masters of their trade. As far as exciting, I would say they have the coolest "pipeline" since they get to do MFF and scuba right off the bat. As far as the actual job, not sure I would personally want to do it, CSAR is not exactly exhilerating all the time.


 
If you are not reffering to me, then I don't know who you are reffering to, as you only have 3 posts on that website, 2 of them in the same discussion you started here, the other being your intro. And I was basically the only one who didn't tell you to fuck off, which it turns out you probably deserved since you failed to follow some of the simple rules on that website.


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## Grey (Apr 11, 2012)

From one wanna-be to another. I think you should focus less on how much you're getting shot at (or at all), and more on what you're doing while getting shot at. Sounds to me like being a cool guy shooting shit is what you want. So you have pretty much made up your mind, though not for the right reasons IMO. I don't know why you're asking. Stepping back into my lane....


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## Astraeus14 (Apr 11, 2012)

This question isn't a classic X vs X question. Those are the people who will tell you that SEALs are better than Rangers in all combat situations, period, while not understanding how the two operate differently and thrive in certain situations. My question is more referring to the life of the individual person, note I never once said that Rangers are better than PJs at whatever, I simply pointed out some differences.

Okay, few Rangers in the last 10 years have gone Special Forces. Why does that matter? Bottom line is that one of the few that did go SF said that life in his ODA was a relief compared to the 75th because of a lot of the strict requirements (haircuts, no hands in pockets, someone holding his hand all the time).

The Ranger didn't hold any form of negative view on the PJs, he didn't say they were lesser at all. He just said they weren't getting called on as many missions, their missions typically didn't involve as much combat, and they had more relaxed standards around the FOB than the Rangers did. That's not insulting PJs, but pointing out facts.

Using your doctor vs lawyer analogy. I specifically stated that I know it's opinionated, there is no X is better than Y, but I was simply looking for input, insight, stories, or whatever. For example a doctor can't say that his job is flat out better, but he can give you info on his work schedule compared to a lawyers, his pay, stress of the job, education requirement differences, etc. I was hoping for something similar to that from this thread.

I am not referring to your posts on armyranger.com, if I can find the link I'll post it ASAP, I believe the thread was from 2005 or something. I started a similar discussion here because that discussion failed, it was my fault for not paying attention to detail.


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## Astraeus14 (Apr 11, 2012)

Nick said:


> From one wanna-be to another. I think you should focus less on how much you're getting shot at (or at all), and more on what you're doing while getting shot at. Sounds to me like being a cool guy shooting shit is what you want. So you have pretty much made up your mind, though not for the right reasons IMO. I don't know why you're asking. Stepping back into my lane....



That's why I started this thread, to get more insight so I can come to the right conclusion for me, I think that's fair seeing that I have a desire to sign my life to an organization that can get me killed on command. If I wanted to just shoot then I wouldn't have even brought up Pararescue (personnel recovery), CCT (air-ground link/JTAC), SF (FID), CSOs (FID), etc. If that was the case I would've decided on conventional infantry, the Regiment, or SEALs (not saying all they do is DA missions but they've earned the rep of being DA oriented).


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 11, 2012)

NCO mode engaged:

Here's the deal:

You don't know shit
You aren't shit
You are a liability to anyone around you until proven otherwise.

You aren't even anything yet other than a maladjusted, misinformed, and mediocre human.  For you to come on here and think you even have a clue about what "garrison life" in ANY unit is like, is totally frigging retarded.

There are inspections every day, every mission, across the board.  Don't think so? Your leaders inspect your room every time they walk in. Regardless if they are doing an "official" inspection or not. Your gear is inspected every time your team leader looks at you.  Once every year or so, you have a big inspection of all equipment at a unit because guess what, officers get promoted and end up having to hand off the company/team/whatever and any smart individual signing for something wants to see everything on the books they're signing for.

Going out to the field? You're inspecting your own shit and if your team leader ain't double checking or spot checking they're doing something wrong and it'll bite them (and you) in the ass if you don't have stuff because they didn't check it.

PJ's work. Rangers work. SF works. Devgru works. All the other SOF elements work. Everyone has different missions and requirements. I'm sure you can tell the PJ teams that took casualties in Afghanistan that they sat on their asses all the time. Wait, you just did, and some of those guys are around here.

You might as well just assume the front leaning rest there and stay there because I'm gonna run to the corner, tag out, and let someone else come off the top rope at your ass.


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 11, 2012)

The other thing is, with PJ's in particular and medics in general, twiddling thumbs playing xbox is a fucking great and fantastic thing

it means someone else didn't get shot up or down.

But, that falls under your lack of understanding inherent to your current position within the military.


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## Astraeus14 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ranger Psych said:


> NCO mode engaged:
> 
> Here's the deal:
> 
> ...



I never claimed to know anything about garrison life not once in that post.

Thank you for explaining inspections.

I specifically stated that I didn't know if any of that was true or an accurate representation of Pararescue, I actually said I doubted it and specifically references Somalia and Takur Ghar as examples as to why I know PJs don't sit around all day. I stated that another Ranger had taken note that the PJs around him weren't getting as many missions as the Rangers were and that they weren't doing lots of personnel recovery but instead equipment recovery. This was not an attack on PJs at all. That's no different than me saying SEALs were doing underwater demolitions and Special Forces were patrolling with the ANA. 

Once again, you're jumping to bold conclusions. I never said it's a bad thing the PJs weren't rescuing wounded, I totally understand that recovering a piece of aircraft is a much better day than recovering people who are bleeding out. The reason I brought it up was simply to state the mission differences for the individual. There is a fine line between recovering a piece of equipment and clearing buildings for an individual for obvious reasons.


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## CDG (Apr 11, 2012)

Astraeus14 said:


> I never claimed to know anything about garrison life not once in that post.
> 
> Thank you for explaining inspections.
> 
> ...


 
Learn when to STFU.  That is going to go a long ways in any job, and the military to an even greater degree.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 11, 2012)

Astraeus14, I'm glad you joined the site, and I congratulate you on your decision to serve in the military.  There is a skill that will serve you well, no matter what path you choose in life:  it's called "situational awareness."  I'm going to lock this thread and give you time to do a little more reading and absorbing of this site and its culture, you'll probably be able to answer the questions you asked on your own, or to ask some better questions.  As you can see, you have already aroused the ire of some of the long-term members of the site, that doesn't demonstrate good situational awareness.  Take a step back, read a bit more, and get it together.


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