# My Blood Vow



## Gunz (Feb 24, 2016)

Kill me if I use any of the following phrases again:

_When I was in Nam...

Back in my day...

This is how we did it back then...

The VC used to...

Or variations thereof..._


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## Marine0311 (Feb 24, 2016)

Why?


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## sah2117 (Feb 24, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> Why?



@Ocoka One :  "When you get to be my age you'll understand."


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 24, 2016)

Fuck, change Nam with Iraq and I'm there. Your experience is valued to me and I would imagine by many on here. You lay down your old-timer experience as much as you can. Hopefully some cherry will be listening.


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## Grunt (Feb 24, 2016)

The way things are going in our military today...I will be honored to say..."Back in the day....".


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## Marine0311 (Feb 24, 2016)

sah2117 said:


> @Ocoka One :  "When you get to be my age you'll understand."



I didn't ask you.


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## Marine0311 (Feb 24, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> This ain't one of those reverse psychology  "don't make me sing" moments. I feel the need to be more selective with my contributions re "war experiences" because there are so many people on this site who've BTDT in a hard way. But I appreciate the comments and hates.  I tend to forget who I'm talking to, HSLD individuals who've spent years on the sharp edge.



Please don't I like hearing your stories.


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## Jael (Feb 24, 2016)

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.


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## medicchick (Feb 24, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> This ain't one of those reverse psychology  "don't make me sing" moments. I feel the need to be more selective with my contributions re "war experiences" because there are so many people on this site who've BTDT in a hard way. But I appreciate the comments and hates.  I tend to forget who I'm talking to, HSLD individuals who've spent years on the sharp edge.


You fought a different war, with it's own challenges and hardships.  Don't feel you need to compete with anyone here (there are no winners then) or that you need to stop sharing stories.  I for one like the personal stories, from any era.  I've had family who fought in every war since before this country was founded.  Reminisce away and if someone doesn't like it they don't have to click on the thread or they can exercise the "ignore" button.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 24, 2016)

sah2117 said:


> @Ocoka One :  "When you get to be my age you'll understand."



Maybe I'm missing something here, your profile says you are 25yrs old?


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## sah2117 (Feb 24, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Maybe I missing something here, your profile says you are 25yrs old?



That's correct. I was just trying to be funny. It was supposed to be a response by Ocoka One playing on what he was trying to avoid saying.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 24, 2016)

sah2117 said:


> That's correct. I was just trying to be funny. It was supposed to be a response by Ocoka One playing on what he was trying to avoid saying.



Oh, well in that case, STFU...


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## Marauder06 (Feb 24, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Kill me if I use any of the following phrases again:
> 
> _When I was in Nam...
> 
> ...



but... I like all of that.


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## Frank S. (Feb 24, 2016)

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Smells like... Sex.


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## Frank S. (Feb 24, 2016)

Jael said:


> Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.



And then, so are those who do.


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## Muppet (Feb 24, 2016)

Drive on bro. You got support here @Ocoka One....I am pretty god damned sure the experience you have from there is pertinent today brother....

M.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 25, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> And then, so are those who do.



As everything runs in circles, and so we continue.


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## Ranger Psych (Feb 25, 2016)

That was a joke, given a previous discussion that had been going on. I found that, and found it humorous. The intent was wholly humorous. Not this.

Your experiences are always welcome. You fought then with what you had, at the behest of our nation. Were you a Marine today, you might hold the same position that I do on that single specific topic. However, your position is based on your experience, which still has huge validity. Hell, lots of our SOP's in Regiment, equipment layouts, etc were based off of studies and SOP's on various things from Vietnam forward. As much as things change, War never changes.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 25, 2016)

Ranger Psych said:


> War never changes.



Only so many ways to skin that proverbial cat, it always tends to come down to us vs them (submits or dies).

Couldn't agree more!


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## Grunt (Feb 25, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Only so many ways to skin that proverbial cat, it always tends to come down to us vs them (submits or dies).
> 
> Couldn't agree more!



Yep...only the environment changes.


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## DocIllinois (Feb 25, 2016)

Ranger Psych said:


> Your experiences are always welcome. You fought then with what you had, at the behest of our nation. Were you a Marine today, you might hold the same position that I do on that single specific topic. However, your position is based on your experience, which still has huge validity. Hell, lots of our SOP's in Regiment, equipment layouts, etc were based off of studies and SOP's on various things from Vietnam forward. As much as things change, War never changes.



Quite right.

  My appreciation for efforts in the Vietnam War could rest on the development of security operations, advances in cooperation between ground and air units, and the evolution of airmobile operations alone.  

*The Evolution of US Army Tactical Doctrine, 1946-1976*


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## Devildoc (Feb 25, 2016)

All of my family that participated in WWII and Korea have passed on.  My father, who retired from the Marines in 1975, did three tours in VN.  He passed away in 1977.  My uncle, my mother's only sibling still living, spent almost 30 years in the Navy; a couple tours in VN (He was a SeaBee).

Ya know, you're not a young pup, and it's through your tales, and the tales of your colleagues vis-a-vis books, the stories, lessons, tales, of VN get passed on.  Your generation won't be around much longer and the first person narrative will be gone.

Please. Do. Not. Stop.


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## Gunz (Feb 25, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Ya know, you're not a young pup, and it's through your tales, and the tales of your colleagues vis-a-vis books, the stories, lessons, tales, of VN get passed on.  Your generation won't be around much longer and the first person narrative will be gone.



Now wait a minute..I ain't ready to buy the farm just yet, I'm 64, in damn good shape and plan on sticking around for another 20-25 years
Hog Hunting 2015


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## policemedic (Feb 26, 2016)

DocIllinois said:


> Quite right.
> 
> My appreciation for efforts in the Vietnam War could rest on the development of security operations, advances in cooperation between ground and air units, and the evolution of airmobile operations alone.
> 
> *The Evolution of US Army Tactical Doctrine, 1946-1976*



Not to mention the medical lessons learned/reinforced from the Dustoff concept and others.

@Ocoka One ... much respect for what you have done and know.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 26, 2016)

Being a SOF forum, and nobody stating the significant impact of the pioneers of special operations in MACV-SOG, reconnaissance and deeeeeep behind the lines ops. Hell MFF alone, SPIE/FRIE, etc...


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## racing_kitty (Feb 26, 2016)

@Ocoka One, someone had to blaze the trail before this current batch of barrel-chested freedom fighters came to do bad things to bad people.  For all the doctrine that the four branches have in print, there is nothing that can compare to the spoken word from a grunt that lived it.  There's a great deal of nuance that gets lost in the presses at the Five Sided Puzzle Palace, nuances that sometimes change the lessons to be learned almost entirely, if not in part.  

You keep telling your stories.  You earned it.  You'll continue to cope successfully, and we'll learn from it as we go forward.  

Thank you.


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## Gunz (Feb 26, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Being a SOF forum, and nobody stating the significant impact of the pioneers of special operations in MACV-SOG, reconnaissance and deeeeeep behind the lines ops. Hell MFF alone, SPIE/FRIE, etc...



MACV-SOG were some serious hardcore dudes. Some of them spent 5, 6 years over there. The great Billy Waugh was one. Some of those guys had insane decorations, like 8 Purple Hearts, 3 Silver Stars...

My favorite guys, then and now, I think--aside from Marines--were the Special Forces. (RIP Tripwire ). They of all the motherfuckers over there had a pretty good handle on how to fight the enemy. They were effective. Their problem was that Big Army (Westmoreland et al)  considered COIN/FID kind of a sideshow. The program I was in, Combined Action, mimicked the SF A-Teams and was pretty successful in its own right, but, again, it wasn't supported by Westy--he was forever lost in the big battlefields of ETO, I think, kept wanting the conventional battle with the VC/NVA. If Westy had thrown bigtime resources into the Special Forces activities and Combined Action-type operations, the whole thing might have gone down a bit differently.


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## 8654Maine (Feb 26, 2016)

You are an old MF'er.  Embrace it!

As for hardcore, pioneers, & SOF, many folks forget that the tip of the spear is only as good as the bindings, the shaft and the hand that wields it.

Bean, bullets and bandages, etc...

I still say the toughest job in the military is the ground-pounder dealing with repetitive, mind-numbing thankless chores mixed in with short bursts of intense, terrifying chaos.  

It's not glamorous.  And it sure isn't safe sex.

Someone will pay.


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## Devildoc (Feb 26, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> MACV-SOG were some serious hardcore dudes. Some of them spent 5, 6 years over there. The great Billy Waugh was one. Some of those guys had insane decorations, like 8 Purple Hearts, 3 Silver Stars...
> 
> My favorite guys, then and now, I think--aside from Marines--were the Special Forces. (RIP Tripwire ). They of all the motherfuckers over there had a pretty good handle on how to fight the enemy. They were effective.



My mentor growing up, my neighbor and the local high school history teacher, was retired Army, almost all of his time in SF with multiple tours in VN.  He had some great stories (as all BTDTs in the military do), with most stories having some "lesson learned".


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 26, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> MACV-SOG were some serious hardcore dudes. Some of them spent 5, 6 years over there. The great Billy Waugh was one. Some of those guys had insane decorations, like 8 Purple Hearts, 3 Silver Stars...
> 
> My favorite guys, then and now, I think--aside from Marines--were the Special Forces. (RIP Tripwire ). They of all the motherfuckers over there had a pretty good handle on how to fight the enemy. They were effective. Their problem was that Big Army (Westmoreland et al)  considered COIN/FID kind of a sideshow. The program I was in, Combined Action, mimicked the SF A-Teams and was pretty successful in its own right, but, again, it wasn't supported by Westy--he was forever lost in the big battlefields of ETO, I think, kept wanting the conventional battle with the VC/NVA. If Westy had thrown bigtime resources into the Special Forces activities and Combined Action-type operations, the whole thing might have gone down a bit differently.



I have to admit, I've been more of a American Indian wars and civil war researcher, with a lot of WW2 (Pacific) studying, but I have recently taken a heavy interest in Vietnam (specifically MACV-SOG) and the 5th SFG RECONDO school, the RT's and RT TL course.  I've got a stack of books I'll be reading over the next 6 months...I've barely scratched the surface of understanding what transpired in that world, but to say the least I'm mind blown thus far...


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## Devildoc (Feb 26, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I have to admit, I've been more of a American Indian wars and civil war researcher, with a lot of WW2 (Pacific) studying, but I have recently taken a heavy interest in Vietnam (specifically MACV-SOG) and the 5th SFG RECONDO school, the RT's and RT TL course.  I've got a stack of books I'll be reading over the next 6 months...I've barely scratched the surface of understanding what transpired in that world, but to say the least I'm mind blown thus far...



John Plaster's stuff is amazing.  I am reading now _Legend: The Incredible Story of Green beret Sergeant Roy Benavidez's Heroic Mission to rescue a Special Forces Team Caught Behind Enemy Lines_  by Eric Blehm.  Much of the MACV-SOG information hasn't been able to be declassified until after 2000 so to use your phrase "scratching the surface" fits.


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## RetPara (Feb 26, 2016)

Fuck that shit...   Back when I told Custer....


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## RetPara (Feb 26, 2016)

Further more any reference that goes back to TTP's from WWII, Korea, Nam, DS, Grenada, Panama, Somalia, or any of the other fucked up places we've had people in the last 100 years provides a VALUABLE historical touchstone to:

a.   How often we have to relearn in blood the lessons learned in blood by earlier generations.

b.   How often we don't do A.  above.

c.    How often one war is not any more fucked up than any other war.

d.   Be it hardtack and salt pork, K rations, canned bully beef, C Rats, LRRPS, or Generation 1 through 20 MRE's that field rations are fucked up.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 26, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> John Plaster's stuff is amazing.  I am reading now _Legend: The Incredible Story of Green beret Sergeant Roy Benavidez's Heroic Mission to rescue a Special Forces Team Caught Behind Enemy Lines_  by Eric Blehm.  Much of the MACV-SOG information hasn't been able to be declassified until after 2000 so to use your phrase "scratching the surface" fits.


Maj Plaster's book SOG is in the stack. Currently reading:

Death in the A Shau Valley: L Company LRRPs in Vietnam, 1969-70 [Book]


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 29, 2016)

@Ocoka One - thought of you when I saw this video. 

Safe to say that you generation's definition of being "kitted up"  would be quite different than ours.  That damn medic...no helmet, no gear (that you could really see)...ugh.


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## metalmom (Mar 29, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
> 
> Smells like... Sex.


Ewwww-only saw that movie phrase about napalm when I liked your post. Didnt see the smelly sex thing til after. lol


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## metalmom (Mar 29, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Kill me if I use any of the following phrases again:
> 
> _When I was in Nam...
> 
> ...


You are a hero to me. Was never interested unfortunately as a youngster about other wars but Vietnam somehow got into my soul. As a younger girl wanted to grow up and work in VA hospitals even though Im Canadian. I believe about 60,000 Canucks served as well. I am proud of you and some people dont talk about their experiences. I want to hear it all. Be and stay proud.


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## Red Flag 1 (Mar 29, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @Ocoka One - thought of you when I saw this video.
> 
> Safe to say that you generation's definition of being "kitted up"  would be quite different than ours.  That damn medic...no helmet, no gear (that you could really see)...ugh.
> 
> ...



^^^^ The nightly news. Some I would see later at the old WRAMC, 2 years worth of General Surgery. Some we took off the busses with their fatigues still on. They would fly in on C-141's, on a northern heading. WRAMC had busses lined up at Andrews AFB to transport them a third of the way around the beltway to Georgia Ave.  Some went straight to the OR. Some to the ICU's, and the stable boys would go to specialty wards, many to orthopedics and general surgery; back in the "30" Ramps of WRAMC. All the wards were wheelchair, and gurney reachable by a series or ramps connecting three floors. Sometimes the young soldiers would have wheelchair ramp races, usually at night. If you decided to walk the ramps you had to have your ears tuned for the sound of rolling wheel chairs. It was not uncommon for the unwise to get nailed in the ankles by the foot rests on the fast rolling chairs. There were rules preventing  such sports, and I saw many; even "officiated" a few. I just could not turn in our boys for being who and what they were. There were even some litter bound boys who would use a couple of rubber tipped canes to navigate the ramps, then ride the elevator back up to their floors. A lot went on in the back ramps of WRAMC in the late '60's.


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## Muppet (Mar 29, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @Ocoka One - thought of you when I saw this video.
> 
> Safe to say that you generation's definition of being "kitted up"  would be quite different than ours.  That damn medic...no helmet, no gear (that you could really see)...ugh.



Damn. Pop told me stories as a medic with the 101st. I can remember getting to Bragg in 95. Squad leader showing me how to prep my aid bag... The same aid mag the medic in the video had, M5. How to secure gear with 550 cord and 100mph tape, taping dog tags, an extra tag in the right boot. All apparently done during Nam. 

M.


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## Gunz (Mar 31, 2016)

Kitted up. No helmets. Here are my buddies:

John "Paladin" Shockley and "Stretch" Stravaaldsen, suppressive fire on enemy in treeline. Sometimes you had to expose yourself to get your rounds on target. The 40mm HE round from Shockley's M79 is a blur at right.






Me. We decorated our boonie hats with frag rings.






Kitted up. "RJ" Carrier and "Frenchy" Pelletiere. We and counterparts were evacuated by 46 to LZ Baldy when our AO flooded during Typhoon Kate.






Combined Action Platoon 2-7-10. I am far right, standing, shirtless. Most of us made it home, all of us got wounded at least once.






Eddie Caiado and Chipper, our mine and bobbytrap dog.






Stretch. One man from each CAP in the company could spend 24 hour R&R at our company compound. Any night behind sandbags and barbed wire was a vacation.











Doc Coonfield. I don't know where he got that guitar. Good pic of our kit. Yes, we had helmets, but we strapped them to our rucks when we went mobile.






Rocket attack on MAG 13 at Marble Mountain, seen from our AO.







Me. PRC 25, Marlboro.






"Tex" Hernandez. Tex took 3 AK rounds in the back from a sniper. And lived. He spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair but was dedicated to the Corps until his death from cancer a few years ago.






Boobytraps , toe poppers, pungis, 105 rounds, tripwire frags were a major problem for us. The VC were prolific in our AO. We used to hand these out.






Lt Col JJ Tolnay, CO, 2nd Combined Action Group and a great officer.







That's the show.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 31, 2016)

Hoping the post that was just here 5 minutes ago comes back. That was amazing history.



ETA - They're back!!!

@Ocoka One - thank you for sharing!


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## Red Flag 1 (Mar 31, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hoping the post that was just here 5 minutes ago comes back. That was amazing history.



We'll see. It's up to the OP.

I found the pics to capture a slice of life in Viet Nam rather well. The OP said I could open up the entry.


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## 8654Maine (Mar 31, 2016)

@Ocoka One, those are some awesome pics.  Thanks for those!


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