# MARSOC boat and aviation units?



## peefyloo (Jul 1, 2010)

This cross my mind a few weeks ago and I just thought I would ask this after reading an article about how MARSOC should be inline with a MAGTF way of things. Does MARSOC have or plan to create some sort of SOAR or SWCC type unit within MARSOC?


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## SoloKing (Jul 1, 2010)

A few of us pond scum enlisted mouth breathers proposed that very same idea to the last three commanding Generals. By proposed I mean gave very valid reasons why we need, not want support personnel that go through a selection process and an intense advanced training. All three literally laughed in our faces and two even stated that "thats what the Marine Air wing is for devil". 

I mean why learn from the failures that Seals and ODAs made early on in their inception. They have given us a perfect blue prints to follow for success.No No, We should repeat the process and try to make a more rounder-er wheel.......thats the round-er-est.


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## 0699 (Jul 1, 2010)

I would ask why the current entry units can't support MARSOC just as they support other SOCOM elements...


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## Ravage (Jul 1, 2010)

A MH-47 driver on another board proposed that Marine skids allready have great aviators, they just need to have more money pushed into their training, technology etc. and Devil Dogs would have their own SOA capability.
Our SOF are faced with the same problem - the're asking and asking and the only thing they hear are empty promises...
All I hope is we don't learn the hard way ........the Desert One way.....


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## Hitman2/3 (Jul 1, 2010)

You aint never lied brother. It seems like the higher ups are intent on making the roundest damn wheel you've ever seen, regardless of what the guys on the ground say. "Sir we really need to screen our support personel to make sure they know their job and they want to be here to do that job the best it can be done". Response: "They're Marines Staff Sergeant they are perfectly capable of supporting you. Now, here's a LCpl motor t mech to fix all your trucks while your in the middle of no where. He's only been in the fleet for a few months, he's out of shape, and didn't ask to be here but he knows his job, sorta". Will they ever learn.


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## SoloKing (Jul 2, 2010)

0699 said:


> I would ask why the current entry units can't support MARSOC just as they support other SOCOM elements...



They do support us and do a amazing job I might add. However they are HIGH demand and there are a lot more operational teams then they can effectively support all the time. We got to train with SOAR twice before I got over here. I haven't seen them once since I have been here because they only get tasked out to the high conflict areas. Rightly so, but if I had the capability were I'm at now I could accomplish twice as much. Based on this senerio if MarSoc had it's own wing of SOF flyers and Boat drivers we could not only train more with them but get them for direct support more often as we have contributed more needed accets to the fight. Not saying I want to keep all my toys to myself and not let my big brothers Seals and ODAs play with my werly birds. But if they are Marine Piloted they will have buy in to support us as much as possible. 

This is a prime example what most of us on our team call the 20 year plan. A lot of figure it will take 20 years (some of us, me included, are hopeing for 10 years) for MarSoc to get straighted out. By that time line all the now pipe swing Sergeants in teams will be in command billets some of the Capt will be there as well. They will have a better understanding of what being on a team and all the frustrations are like and hope, hope, hopefully make good command desictions. My fingers are crossed. We have great dudes at the team level but our command above Company right now is FUBAR.


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## AWP (Jul 2, 2010)

0699 said:


> I would ask why the current entry units can't support MARSOC just as they support other SOCOM elements...



Supply and demand. I'd bet you have ODAs who work infrequently at best with the 160th.



Hitman2/3 said:


> "Sir we really need to screen our support personel to make sure they know their job and they want to be here to do that job the best it can be done"



Marauder06 has discussed this at length on the Army side and I know he and I have discussed it as well; here and elsewhere. The Army suffers from this problem in SF Groups while the 75th and 160th have their own assesment and selection process. I know certain NSW billets and AFSOC support slots (more than a few to be honest) go to whoever's up for assignment at the time. I'll never understand the mentality of selecting and training the "tip of the spear" and then supporting them with whoever's ready to PCS into the unit at the moment or who wants to stay at their current Fort/ Air Force Base and SOF is their only option.


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## Hitman2/3 (Jul 2, 2010)

It ticks us off to no end. I don't know how support perso are in the the other branches but in the Marine Corps a lot of them think they are the main effort and everything revolves around their schedule. You tell them that you need something to get the job done and they act like they're doing you a favor. It blows my mind. If my team gets tasked to conduct a hairy op we don't role our eyes and say "well we'll do it but you owe us". We roger up and get it done. With some of them them you ask for basic support from their section and you would think you just asked them to storm Normandy. But when it comes time for gear issue they'll try to get the gucciest gear supply has to offer because they "need it". Dude you never leave the wire, and in some cases you never leave CONUS.              


Some of them do an outstanding job and those are the ones I respect. They don't want to play Rambo and they understand the importance of getting their job done. I wish we could fill our support staff with them. If we had folks that didn't drop the ball every two seconds, did what they said they'd do, and took some initiative we could get twice as much done with half the head ache. 

In a way it kind of nice to know that it's not just the Marine Corps that's having that problem.


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## Hitman2/3 (Jul 2, 2010)

On the boat and aviation piece, I think it's a great idea. Unfortunatley like Solo said I don't see it happening any time soon. The Marine Corps is stubborn as hell. Even if they know your right they won't say so and they won't act. With Marine air you run into the same problem as you do with the support personel. You can end up with a boot pilot fresh out of flight school who you expect to take you into a hot LZ at night and put you right were you need to be when you need to be there. The higher ups don't seem to understand why its important that you have a pilot and a bird that can hit your TOT everytime and put you right were you need to be under almost any condition, same with the boats. We need guys who have been properly screened, trained, and given the tools to complete the job. Just because you send regular personel on a spec ops mission dosen't make them spec ops.


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## 0699 (Jul 2, 2010)

SoloKing said:


> They do support us and do a amazing job I might add. However they are HIGH demand and there are a lot more operational teams then they can effectively support all the time. We got to train with SOAR twice before I got over here. I haven't seen them once since I have been here because they only get tasked out to the high conflict areas. Rightly so, but if I had the capability were I'm at now I could accomplish twice as much. Based on this senerio if MarSoc had it's own wing of SOF flyers and Boat drivers we could not only train more with them but get them for direct support more often as we have contributed more needed accets to the fight. Not saying I want to keep all my toys to myself and not let my big brothers Seals and ODAs play with my werly birds. But if they are Marine Piloted they will have buy in to support us as much as possible.
> 
> This is a prime example what most of us on our team call the 20 year plan. A lot of figure it will take 20 years (some of us, me included, are hopeing for 10 years) for MarSoc to get straighted out. By that time line all the now pipe swing Sergeants in teams will be in command billets some of the Capt will be there as well. They will have a better understanding of what being on a team and all the frustrations are like and hope, hope, hopefully make good command desictions. My fingers are crossed. We have great dudes at the team level but our command above Company right now is FUBAR.


 
See, this is why I love the Corps.  Ask a question, get an answer. :)

Makes a lot of sense.  Thank you.


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## JimMCpog (Jul 3, 2010)

Hitman2/3 said:


> On the boat and aviation piece, I think it's a great idea. Unfortunatley like Solo said I don't see it happening any time soon. The Marine Corps is stubborn as hell. Even if they know your right they won't say so and they won't act. With Marine air you run into the same problem as you do with the support personel. You can end up with a boot pilot fresh out of flight school who you expect to take you into a hot LZ at night and put you right were you need to be when you need to be there. The higher ups don't seem to understand why its important that you have a pilot and a bird that can hit your TOT everytime and put you right were you need to be under almost any condition, same with the boats. We need guys who have been properly screened, trained, and given the tools to complete the job. Just because you send regular personel on a spec ops mission dosen't make them spec ops.


 
What would you think of the Marine Corps instituting Warrant Officers for Helo pilots so you can have an experienced pilot stay with MARSOC? They won't have to move up and out due to career progression.


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## SoloKing (Jul 3, 2010)

JimMCpog said:


> What would you think of the Marine Corps instituting Warrant Officers for Helo pilots so you can have an experienced pilot stay with MARSOC? They won't have to move up and out due to career progression.



Totally makes sence right?! EEEEHHHHH! WRONG! "Sir many of us on the team see the need for a Warrant Officer program........... not only for the reasons I outlined in the teams but for building a SOF Air Wing as well. I know many of my team mates would be interested and it would help with retention." (Direct quotes from Gen. Knoweverything)- "MarSoc will not persue a Warrant Officer program." "I dont understand Sir, why is that?" "I don't feel it answers the needs that we have." "So with that being said Sir, what will?" "Good question Marine, OK, my times up here and I have to catch a flight back to bla bla bla bal  a bla bla bla.........

Commanding MarSoc is just a stepping stone for One Stars anyway. Since my arrival in 07 we have had three different Commanding Generals. Thats got to be some kind of record, right?


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## Ravage (Jul 3, 2010)

Lol GROM had changes in command way too often too. And like in your case, its was often political/career stuff.


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## SoloKing (Jul 3, 2010)

GROM is some badass dudes. One of my team mates is Polish, he has only been in the States about 10 years. He has a 6 part documentary on GROM. He had to translate it for me but it was really great stuff, on how they got started and some of their first missions.


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