# Boots and ruck marches



## Zethra (May 22, 2010)

Quick question that I'm sure any of your guys here could answer. I'm looking to get a pair of boots soon for some trail runs. Anyone have advice as to which brand I should get and how I should train with them? A buddy of mine bought a pair of Oakleys before deploying and he swears by them, but I don't have $500 for a pair. Also for ruck marches, would a weight vest suffice or should I get one of those big hiking packs and fill it with bricks and shit?


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## Ranger Psych (May 22, 2010)

I would honestly say that you would be better off getting general strength and cardio training done. 

You'll do ruckmarching in basic/boot/whatever. If you seriously want to train up on rucking because you haven't carried a pack before... buy yourself a $40-$60 surplus ALICE pack and toss your xbox/playstation and some other random crap in there.

All rucking is, is walking for X distance with Y on your back. It's not rocket science.  

Other thing to consider is that more injuries seem to come from rucking than from running... running hammers you over time, but rucking can sprain ankles etc more easily. Don't break yourself before you sign up. Let the military do that for you, so you get a check out of it later.

Break now, you won't be able to enlist... and you get to foot the bill to boot.


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## LibraryLady (May 22, 2010)

Zethra, 

First of all good on you for wanting to get yourself prepped for your upcoming adventure.

Second, there's a search feature available on the forum, and if you utilize it, you'll discover there's an extensive amount of detail on these topics.

Third, recognize that the Special Operations community is a community full of dedicated, motivated and highly intelligent folk who believe that hard work, prior planning and most of all research are key to successful missions.  Asking simple questions without extensive research is NOT a mark of this community.  If you want to be a part of that community, you must emulate them in ALL ways, not just being physically fit.

LL


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## Zethra (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for the constructive criticism LibraryLady (no sarcasim). From here on out I won't
be so lazy about it.


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## Ranger Psych (May 22, 2010)

LL's on the nose as well... You just got lucky because my 1 month old daughter is actually asleep and therefore my ears aren't ringing.


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## Zethra (May 22, 2010)

Point taken RP. Thanks fr keeping me in line. Belated congrats on your daughter by the way.


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## Marauder06 (May 22, 2010)

$500 for a pair of boots?  Wow.  I hope that was an exaggeration.

My unit used to issue Oakley boots.  I hated them.  I guess enough people in my unit hated them too because now they're issuing BlackHawk boots.  With the Oakely model we had, there was not enough lower leg/ankle support and the top of the boots were too low; everytime I sat down my pants popped out of the tops of the boots.  I felt that the only reason people liked them is because they were Oakley and came in a box that said "Special Forces Issue."  I wore them a couple of times and put them in the closet.  Tell you what- bargain price for you, send me $300 and I'll send them to you :)

On a serious note, when I was doing my footmarch training, I used a pair of plain, black leather "leg" boots.  If you get them broken in correctly they will fit your feet like a glove.  Leg boots and two pairs of green wool socks.  I never liked the idea of carrying bricks or other heavy objects in your rucksack if you could avoid it.  I recommend you carry water- it's cheap, useful, form-fitting (if you use flexible containers) and if you get smoked and need to dump it, no drama.  I had a couple of five-quart canteens I used to use.


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## Ranger Psych (May 22, 2010)

Another alternative is to actually do some hiking to destinations, start off doing day hikes and then move to overnight hikes covering actual distance.

You know, like Boy Scouts.


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## Zethra (May 22, 2010)

No lie on the price. I was with him when he ordered them. His 1Sgt reccomended them to him. If I had the $300 to blow I'd take them off your hands though I was hoping for something in the under $150 area. I found a pair of Bates that I'm kind of interested in.

Thanks for the suggestion on marching to a destination. I'm gonna have to give that a try soon with my weight vest on or
something. Thanks again guys!


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## x SF med (May 22, 2010)

If the boots aren't custom made, $500 is way too steep.  When I was doing the Army thing - I had a pair of $500 boots - but they were issued to me - Chippewa SF Mountain Boots - I still have them wit hthousands of miles on them and they are in outstanding shape...  too heavy for most applications.  

Here's something to remember - any selection or training course will require you to use issue gear...  that's what you should train with to get ready; break them in or you will be in deep kimchi when you are required to use them and you aren't used to the issue boots.

Just my .02 - YMMV


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## Marauder06 (May 22, 2010)

What size boots do you wear?


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## pardus (May 22, 2010)

LOL, Mara's still trying to unload 

Zethra, buy a pair of boots that are issued to the branch you are going to join, train in them because thats what you will using when you get there.

RP is on the money, get a cheap ALICE and practice, I wouldn't go any heavier than 40lbs and I'd start at about 20lbs.
There is a correct way to march, in the absence of knowing how to do that just walk at a moderately fast pace. 

I don't see any real advantage in walking with a weighted vest to prepare for rucking :2c:


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## Rabid Badger (May 23, 2010)

Alice is the way to go.

Here are some spectacularly comfortable boots right off the rack and in your price range:

http://www.shopadidas.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2434910


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## SF4ever (May 23, 2010)

Lowa Zephyr is the best light weight boot I have ever worn. I have untold miles in boots that range from the Old "Leg Boots" issued in Basic so long ago to Jungle Boots to Herman Survivors, to Danner's to Merrill's to Oakley's to you name them and the Lowa's are the absolute best!!! The Oakley's were a close second but hot and had poor traction. I am now wearing the Lowa's here in AFG and out most everyday. No heat build-up, good ankle support with lateral support, and great traction climbing up and out of irrigation ditches. You will pay from 170 to 190 for them but I assure you these will be the best you have ever owned!!! As for practicing rucking? ALICE Ruck on, Head down, and move out..... no other way to do it but to get moving and to do it often. Lean into it and move out!!!


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## 8'Duece (May 28, 2010)

Are your Zephyrs the GTX or not ? 


Just curious.


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## SF4ever (May 28, 2010)

No... did not see a need for them here after so many years of walking the ground here in southern AFG..... I prefer them to dry quickly when I get them wet in the canals. The price is not much difference though. I just did not have a use for the Goretex versions here. They might be appropriate for those AOs that one might encounter a lot of wet grass, rain, etc....

Hope that helps? It is over 110 degrees here in the south now and my feet are not hot or sweaty. The boots breath/vent really well.


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## Polar Bear (May 28, 2010)

I would go with these Jesus Cleats


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## pardus (May 28, 2010)

SF4ever do you by chance have narrow heels?

Does anyone know if Lowa's are good for people with narrow heels?


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## SF4ever (May 28, 2010)

Pardus -

Not sure what a constitutes a "narrow" heel? Never thought about it. I have good arches and what is determined a "D" width or normal width foot. IMHO these are the absolute best boot I have ever worn.  I just wish they had been around when I went through a "long selection" course years ago - they would have made a huge difference although I managed to complete the course with the "boots of the day" ......  ;)

If you are near an REI Store they carry them so you might be able to try a pair on to see how they fit.


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## AWP (May 28, 2010)

Those boots only come in regular widths.


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## pardus (May 28, 2010)

I'm kinda fucked because my feet are wide at the toes and narrow at the heel, I have trouble getting boots to fit properly which I'm sure every Soldier knows is a cunt of a problem.


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## AWP (May 28, 2010)

pardus said:


> I'm kinda fucked because my feet are wide at the toes and narrow at the heel, I have trouble getting boots to fit properly which I'm sure every Soldier knows is a cunt of a problem.



I'm basically the same. I love my Merrills but the heel is too wide so I had to use some Moleskin foam to tighten them up a little. Danners fit very well, but they didn't have a lightweight (non Goretex) model in wide widths. Asolo's in a wide width fit my heel but pinch my toes and cause ingrown nails.


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## SF4ever (May 28, 2010)

My thoughts are that if you are really interested in the Lowas that you ordered /visit a supplier and try a pair on. I find that shoes of any brand are all not equal when it comes to advertised sizing. I will not buy any shoe - dress, casual, running, hiking, work without trying them on in the type of socks I will be wearing for them. I used to be a Merrill's only kind of guy for both boots and hiking/all terrain but switched to Keens to the toe pockets getting really tight/narrow. I love Keens for everyday wear and Lowas for my tactical work boots.......


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## 0699 (May 28, 2010)

pardus said:


> I'm kinda fucked because my feet are wide at the toes and narrow at the heel, I have trouble getting boots to fit properly which I'm sure every Soldier knows is a cunt of a problem.


 
Scuba fin feet.  I have them too.


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## Chopstick (May 28, 2010)

0699 said:


> Scuba fin feet.  I have them too.


Im so sorry but this just cracked me the hell up!;)


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## pardus (May 28, 2010)

0699 said:


> Scuba fin feet.  I have them too.


 
So what brands fit you?


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## Ranger Psych (May 29, 2010)

Yellow Duck Boots?


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## 0699 (May 29, 2010)

pardus said:


> So what brands fit you?


 
Believe it not, the most comfortable boots I've ever worn are the Belleville boots they made under the contract that went with the new MARPAT uniforms (they look like the 550 ST, but they don't have steel toes).  Not perfect, but I have yet to find a boot that is.  They do seem to have narrower heel cups (especially in the wide sizes) and my feet slip less than in other boots.  They make boots for the other service's specs, but I'm not sure if they're the same fit.

http://www.bellevilleshoe.com/product.php


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## pardus (May 29, 2010)

Thanks, they are $99 at the PX which ain't bad.


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## AWP (Jun 2, 2010)

Pardus, if it helps any I bought a pair of these and have 4 days on them with no issues. This is last year's model, the successor seems to be the second link.

http://www.columbia.com/on/demandwa...default/Search-Show?q=grizztooth&sz=1&start=0

http://www.columbia.com/shoes-boots...-men-hikingTrail,default,sc.html?sz=1&start=7

So maybe the rest of their footwear is cut similarly.


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## pardus (Jun 2, 2010)

Cool, thanks mate.


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## madness unseen (Jul 29, 2010)

pardus said:


> So what brands fit you?


 
I've got scuba fin feet syndrome too. Like previously, Belleville is my brand of choice so far too, at least of everything issued. i dont get those shnazzy zip-up ones either. I currently sport 300 STs and soon will be wearing 360 STs. my non steel toes are similar to the 330 ST, but arent steel toe and are GTX and dont have a design code in them (basic issued)

besides that, I have owned a couple of pairs of Bates, one of which was sold as a "Seal Boot, Blk" new at the surplus store. I'd have to research their brand code.

The bellevilles are the only ones that seem to consistently fit in the heel without being too tight in the toe. I wear a 9.0W in them


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## pardus (Jul 29, 2010)

Great, thank you.



madness unseen said:


> I've got scuba fin feet syndrome too. Like previously, Belleville is my brand of choice so far too, at least of everything issued. i dont get those shnazzy zip-up ones either. I currently sport 300 STs and soon will be wearing 360 STs. my non steel toes are similar to the 330 ST, but arent steel toe and are GTX and dont have a design code in them (basic issued)
> 
> besides that, I have owned a couple of pairs of Bates, one of which was sold as a "Seal Boot, Blk" new at the surplus store. I'd have to research their brand code.
> 
> The bellevilles are the only ones that seem to consistently fit in the heel without being too tight in the toe. I wear a 9.0W in them


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## Mac_NZ (Jul 29, 2010)

Meindl Desert Safaris are awesome, my feet feel like a fat 40 year old bald guy in a Vette with a busty 21 year old lingerie model.
My mate stole my Bellvilles for the Ghan and he loves them, I never gave them a good thrashing.


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## Crusader74 (Jul 30, 2010)

Mac_NZ said:


> Meindl Desert Safaris are awesome, my feet feel like a fat 40 year old bald guy in a Vette with a busty 21 year old lingerie model.
> My mate stole my Bellvilles for the Ghan and he loves them, I never gave them a good thrashing.


 
I love Meindle..Very popular here for as long as I'm in. The only problem was the sole..ain't that great in wet conditions...The Black leather, not sure about Desert versions like the fox and Safaris..


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## Crusader74 (Jul 30, 2010)

Lowa boots are the mutts nutz!  Them and Hanwags


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## Powder (Nov 26, 2011)

So for those of you who have worn the lowa's, specifically the zephyr's, is there a preference for GTX vs non GTX? I understand that you have to match the boot to the environment but are they good garrison boots and for those green berets what is your preference for SFAS/Q on the GTX?
(I'll admit ahead of time I have not searched that but I figured I would throw it on while I am on the subject.) From what i have been told the Nike SFB is a pretty sweet garrison boot.


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## is friday (Nov 27, 2011)

I wear Bates Lites which I paid $120 for. They've lasted me the better part of a year (they're about worn out.) I haven't counted how many miles I've done but I average about 5-15 miles a week rucking. They need to get replaced soon. They have very little support for when you potentially roll your ankle--so you definitely have to gradually switch over to them from the regular Bates or whatever it is you're wearing. They are probably weigh about a pound together, though--so if your muscles/tendons are developed well and you're used to rucking they're a good buy imo.

Also: If you're a Marine they have the EGA so you don't have to worry about switching over your boots constantly.


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## thrilla82 (Nov 27, 2011)

Powder said:


> So for those of you who have worn the lowa's, specifically the zephyr's, is there a preference for GTX vs non GTX? I understand that you have to match the boot to the environment but are they good garrison boots and for those green berets what is your preference for SFAS/Q on the GTX?
> (I'll admit ahead of time I have not searched that but I figured I would throw it on while I am on the subject.) From what i have been told the Nike SFB is a pretty sweet garrison boot.


 
this might help you ....
http://www.militarymorons.com/equipment/footwear.html


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## Powder (Nov 28, 2011)

thrilla82 said:


> this might help you ....
> http://www.militarymorons.com/equipment/footwear.html


 
Very helpful, I will have to keep that website in mind.


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## Brill (Nov 28, 2011)

Not a SF guy but I do have a pair of the Zephyr GTX.  Wore them on FOBs all over AF and elsewhere.  Very comfortable, lightweight, and very well made.  I've heard tale that there is a unit out there that gets 'em issued.


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## cybersniper (Mar 19, 2012)

Fully agree with you, my OAKLEYS ended up on the same place: the boot closet, which by the way is getting huge. Now I use 5.11 HRT.
ed


Marauder06 said:


> $500 for a pair of boots? Wow. I hope that was an exaggeration.
> 
> My unit used to issue Oakley boots. I hated them. I guess enough people in my unit hated them too because now they're issuing BlackHawk boots. With the Oakely model we had, there was not enough lower leg/ankle support and the top of the boots were too low; everytime I sat down my pants popped out of the tops of the boots. I felt that the only reason people liked them is because they were Oakley and came in a box that said "Special Forces Issue." I wore them a couple of times and put them in the closet. Tell you what- bargain price for you, send me $300 and I'll send them to you
> 
> On a serious note, when I was doing my footmarch training, I used a pair of plain, black leather "leg" boots. If you get them broken in correctly they will fit your feet like a glove. Leg boots and two pairs of green wool socks. I never liked the idea of carrying bricks or other heavy objects in your rucksack if you could avoid it. I recommend you carry water- it's cheap, useful, form-fitting (if you use flexible containers) and if you get smoked and need to dump it, no drama. I had a couple of five-quart canteens I used to use.


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## JustAnotherJ (Mar 20, 2012)

From now on I will only buy Lowa Upland GTX's.  Once I put them on, they were broken in.  Best boots ever.  Oakleys blow


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## Red-Dot (Jul 19, 2012)

The best fitting/feeling boots I ever wore have been Meindls. They are very well built which is common for German products. I would suggest the Ibex non-insulated model, I have had a pair for 5 years and they are still going strong...

http://reviews.cabelas.com/8815/810614/cabelas-ibex-hunting-boots-by-meindl-reviews/reviews.htm


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## the_enforcer (Jan 12, 2014)

I used a certain pair of bellville boots for my whole tour in Afghanistan, I would ruck a few miles to the motor pool before most missions and I would be fine. I came home with a brand new pair and start doing longer rucks which tore my feet up. I think a long ruck is the best way to tell if the boots are good or not. I am currently in the market for a new boot.


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## swimr235 (Jan 16, 2014)

I was told by a co-worker/SF guy that the Garmont T8 NFS worked well, he said he did something with the soles before SFAS, not sure what it was. Also, I do some rucks on my own and have done a GORUCK Challenge and I used the Bates 922's. They are pretty good but I have to replace the insoles with superfeet copper insoles. Those things are great.


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## x SF med (Jan 16, 2014)

@pardus Try Keens, you can get them at REI.


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## pardus (Jan 16, 2014)

x SF med said:


> @pardus Try Keens, you can get them at REI.



Danke Herr Troll


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## Hillclimb (Jan 16, 2014)

swimr235 said:


> I was told by a co-worker/SF guy that the Garmont T8 NFS worked well, he said he did something with the soles before SFAS, not sure what it was. Also, I do some rucks on my own and have done a GORUCK Challenge and I used the Bates 922's. They are pretty good but I have to replace the insoles with superfeet copper insoles. Those things are great.



I love the Garmont T8's. I use em for hiking, hunting, and ruck runs. They've held up pretty good so far.


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## the_enforcer (Jan 16, 2014)

Hillclimb said:


> I love the Garmont T8's. I use em for hiking, hunting, and ruck runs. They've held up pretty good so far.



Have you done any rucks over 10 miles in them? If so, how did your feet feel after, as opposed to other boots? My danner boots that we're issued with the multicam are awesome but I don't think I can wear them with the ACU's.


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## Ranger Psych (Jan 16, 2014)

Tan Suede is tan suede. Worst case, blouse low using the ties versus tucking in, if that's how you wear them normally.


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## Hillclimb (Jan 17, 2014)

the_enforcer said:


> Have you done any rucks over 10 miles in them? If so, how did your feet feel after, as opposed to other boots? My danner boots that we're issued with the multicam are awesome but I don't think I can wear them with the ACU's.



I've used the T8 tactical/regular ones for long ruck runs just fine, and have lasted me awhile.

A quarter of my team and I just left the store with the T8 NFS's and will use them soon. 

They will fit tight at first, but they break in and form to your feet really great, and will hold that fit for awhile.


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## x SF med (Jan 17, 2014)

pardus said:


> Danke Herr Troll



No prob, I have scubafin feets also.


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