# SF & "good old" .45



## Ravage (Jun 30, 2007)

Guys I noticed that recently (on oficial photos) that SFers are not useing the Standard M9 but the .45 1911. Does that mean that the M9 is no longer prefered by SF ? 'Cus normaly I see SEALs using Sigs, SF with M9s, USMC with Spriengfield 1911s (love that gun ).
Is it because the caliber ?






HIRES


> A U.S. Army Special Forces Soldier and an 8th Iraqi Army special forces soldier watch for Jaysh al-Mahdi (JAM) militia movement during Operation Jackal in Diwaniyah, Iraq, June 3.


----------



## AWP (Jun 30, 2007)

That isn't an M9 in the photo?


----------



## Ravage (Jun 30, 2007)

Looks like a .45 to me.


----------



## jordan (Jun 30, 2007)

i dont think the M9 is prefered by anyone..


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Jun 30, 2007)

jordan said:


> i dont think the M9 is prefered by anyone..


 
lol, you got that right


----------



## Pete031 (Jun 30, 2007)

Ravage said:


> Looks like a .45 to me.



the Colt 1911a1 has a pistol grip safety, which I don't see on the pic. The M9 Has a lanyard ring just rear of the magazine housing, and I don't think the issued .45 has a lanyard ring at all. The ones that do have the lanyard ring, the hole is turned the other way... so that the O is left to right, not front to rear.
I would say that the weapon in question is a M9 and not a 1911.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 30, 2007)

Looking at the handgrips I thought it was some kind of Sig.  However, given what I've seen people carry in Iraq, it could be anything...


----------



## Ravage (Jun 30, 2007)

Damn, I'm wrong again 

Sorry guys.


----------



## Pete031 (Jun 30, 2007)

Marauder06 said:


> Looking at the handgrips I thought it was some kind of Sig.  However, given what I've seen people carry in Iraq, it could be anything...



again, on the 226 there is no lanyard ring, it's more of an indent.... And correct me if I'm wrong but only NSW have the sig in the US right?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 30, 2007)

Looking at it again, I do think it's an M9 given the lanyard ring and the curvature of the part that protrudes from the top of the lower receiver (nomenclature??).  It looks like they put some kind of funky grips on it, not uncommon at all.

Edit:  Pete beat me to it.  I think the Sig is pretty common throughout the SOF community.


----------



## Ravage (Jun 30, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> And correct me if I'm wrong but only NSW have the sig in the US right?



SEALs, "swics" and Navy EODs AFAIK.


----------



## Pete031 (Jun 30, 2007)

Marauder06 said:


> Looking at it again, I do think it's an M9 given the lanyard ring and the curvature of the part that protrudes from the top of the lower receiver (nomenclature??).  It looks like they put some kind of funky grips on it, not uncommon at all.



Yeah, it must be an M9.....
Thats what I meant Ravage... Referring to Naval Special Warfare.


----------



## LAID IN (Jun 30, 2007)

M9 or otherwise, it is a Beretta none the less.  Looks like with simple aftermarket Hogue grips.


----------



## Olive Drab (Jul 1, 2007)

definitely an m9 and definitely not a single stacked 1911


----------



## WillBrink (Jul 1, 2007)

Ravage said:


> Guys I noticed that recently (on oficial photos) that SFers are not useing the Standard M9 but the .45 1911. Does that mean that the M9 is no longer prefered by SF ? 'Cus normaly I see SEALs using Sigs, SF with M9s, USMC with Spriengfield 1911s (love that gun ).
> Is it because the caliber ?



I suspect it's both. Given a choice, almost all the high level shooters I know, and or have spoken with in SOF or tactical LEO, will take a good 1911 over any other handgun. Not being in SOF however, I can't speak to anything beyond that. However, a well known expression i keep hearing is "there are two kinds of people in Iraq, those who have a 1911 and those who want one." Not sure how true that is....


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Jul 1, 2007)

The only people I know that like the 1911, are the old timers who were around when it was the only thing issued


----------



## rangerpsych (Jul 1, 2007)

A 1911 requires too much maintanance to be able to be remotely reliable. .45 is a good round, but the 1911 was state of the art.... in 1911. 

A HK, Sig, or Glock is not only a replacement, but an improvement. The Beretta M9 is...well...it's a big heavy pistol that is adequate in few respects.


----------



## AWP (Jul 1, 2007)

I love my 1911 but I agree with the above. It needs some work to be tuned just right.


----------



## WillBrink (Jul 1, 2007)

rangerpsych said:


> A 1911 requires too much maintanance to be able to be remotely reliable. .45 is a good round, but the 1911 was state of the art.... in 1911.



I could not agree with you less. Simply not true.



rangerpsych said:


> A HK, Sig, or Glock is not only a replacement, but an improvement. The Beretta M9 is...well...it's a big heavy pistol that is adequate in few respects.



Ditto to above comments, but that's what makes horse racing I guess. ;)


----------



## Ravage (Jul 1, 2007)

Force Recon uses the Springfield 1911 ?


----------



## rangerpsych (Jul 1, 2007)

Will, what's the worst conditions that you have endured, relying on a firearm for your safety and the safety of those around you?


----------



## WillBrink (Jul 1, 2007)

Ravage said:


> Force Recon uses the Springfield 1911 ?



The Marines issue a 45 automatic to their MEU(SOC) personnel. The issued guns had to go through extensive testing. I don't believe any one manufacturer produces them, at least not for MEUSOC. According to Ed Brown

" Each MEU(SOC) 1911 .45 Automatic pistol is hand-built by specially trained armorers in the Precision Weapons Section, Quantico, Virginia. Essentially, each of these pistols is a custom-built, combat grade, fixed sight .45 automatic--and "that guy" said it didn't happen anymore. The frames for the MEU(SOC) pistols are taken from the existing stocks of retired Marine 1911 pistols. The slides, and all the other parts, are a different matter. The Marines procure a more durable "hard" commercial slide as well as everything else from current manufacturers via open purchase or military contract. The beavertail grip safety, grips, hammers and triggers, etc. are quality after market items."

I know other groups who get 1911 do use specific companies to build them however.


----------



## EATIII (Jul 1, 2007)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> The only people I know that like the 1911, are the old timers who were around when it was the only thing issued



The Saw was issued at that time also,lol

I loved my issue 1911, Except when Charging Charlie Made us Carry it at the ready when we were off the 60,lol


----------



## WillBrink (Jul 1, 2007)

rangerpsych said:


> Will, what's the worst conditions that you have endured, relying on a firearm for your safety and the safety of those around you?



I do not use my experience as a test for such a comments. I am using the experiences of people I deal with and know from SOF backgrounds who have gone to war, or guys on LEO tactical teams, etc. I would never compare my personal experiences and base my opinions on that in relation to what I said above, and your question is a fair one.


----------



## 104TN (Jul 1, 2007)

I've had a Glock 17 in the past and sold it and got a SIG 226. After using the M9 in the Army, about the only thing I think it's good for now is a paperweight.


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Jul 1, 2007)

Beretta actually makes shittier pistols than the m9.  Good thing the Army didnt go for them.


----------



## 104TN (Jul 1, 2007)

Their brand managers probably didn't have the budget to fund the necessary kickbacks .


----------



## Pete031 (Jul 1, 2007)

I had a Sig 226 issued to me overseas... Loved it. Puts our other pistol the BHP to shame.


----------



## Vedel (Jul 2, 2007)

*M9?  or SIG?  or  .45?*

Different groups are going with different pistols.  From what I've heard (from various public sources) the Navy is sticking with SIG 226 for the SEALS, official issue anyway.. they use whatever they need I'm sure.  The army is sticking with M9 and SIG 228 (the JSP- Joint Service Pistol competition is on hold for now.) I'm sure they still have Mk23 .45's for certain army groups. The Marines will be using various .45's for Marine Spec-ops.  Some will use Springfield Armory,  some are using good old Colt.  I have also heard that a certain group of Marines will be using Kimber .45's.  In fact you can purchase a .45 from Kimber right now that is similar to the issue version.  It's called the Warrior.  Or Desert Warrior in FDE.  The safety, sights, and tactical rail are different,  but it's similar.  I'm sure most want .45 for a simple reason.  It works.  I used to prefer .40 when I could have (legally) high cap mags.  But now,  a nice 10 shot .45 would be just fine thank you.  Maybe a SIG 220 Combat or an HK45.  I don't care for Glocks personally, but I have a couple friends with model 21's who love 'em.  I'd say ammunition and shot placement is more important than caliber though. (my humble civilian opinion of course)   After all, the SEALs even use .22's    :)


----------



## Ravage (Jul 3, 2007)

Vedel said:


> I'm sure they still have Mk23 .45's for certain army groups.



yes but they don't use it anymore, actually they never did



Vedel said:


> After all, the SEALs even use .22's



not anymore, talk to Matchanu about that


----------



## demo18c (Jul 3, 2007)

We have M9s and Glock .45 for use. Its whatever the individual prefers. Almost all prefer the glocks


----------



## Vedel (Jul 3, 2007)

Pistol, Caliber .22, Automatic, High Standard, Model HD (NSN 1005-00- 908-2386)

One additional pistol is carried in the armory. This is the High Standard HD, a suppressed .22 caliber pistol whose origins were in the OSS of WW2.

A special purpose weapon, its effective suppressor permits quiet shots at very close range. While the effectiveness of the .22 Long Rifle round can be questioned, it is a useful weapon within its design parameters.


----------



## Ravage (Jul 3, 2007)

High Standard ? the S&W Hush-Puppy ?


----------



## 6 Guns (Jul 14, 2007)

The 1911 is the preferred sidearm for SOF and many LE.  Some units have to buy 1911's with their funds and some units are issued 1911's.

Reliability and knock down.


----------



## multicamuser (Aug 5, 2009)

A friend of mine told me that Delta is issuing their new guys Glock 22's.  Does anybody know if this is true.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 5, 2009)

What specifically do some of you not like about the issue M9? Is it the pistol itself or the round that you are unhappy with?  

DISCLAIMER:  No I haven't fired thousands of rounds through the M9 on a range or used it in high-intensity combat operations.  Just wanted to know more for my own education.


----------



## 7point62 (Aug 5, 2009)

I love a 1911 that's broken in, slides like butter, rocks with the kick. If I'm down to my sidearm I don't need a matchgrade bitch, I want a fucking cannon that's going to stop that MFer from sticking me like a pig. But there's a lot to be said for a double stacked 45ACP. And there's a reason they are called Fag 9's.


----------



## surgicalcric (Aug 5, 2009)

multicamuser said:


> A friend of mine told me that Delta is issuing their new guys Glock 22's.  Does anybody know if this is true.



I fly Delta all the time, I have never seen any of the flight crew carrying Glock 22's...  Maybe he was talking about one of the other major airlines instead.


----------



## surgicalcric (Aug 5, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> What specifically do some of you not like about the issue M9? Is it the pistol itself or the round that you are unhappy with...



The frame size/shape (handgrip mostly), the mag release size, slide release, not ambidextrous just to name a few...


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 5, 2009)

surgicalcric said:


> The frame size/shape (handgrip mostly), the mag release size, slide release, not ambidextrous just to name a few...



got ya thanks!


----------



## arizonaguide (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm wondering how that new Sig250 Polymer is working out...anybody heard anything?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 5, 2009)

That is a M9:uhh:

And CID and some MP units have Sig 228's...


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 5, 2009)

M9's are standard issue, the only units that i know for sure are issued a 1911 is AMU, SARG and MTU (bulls-eye) shooting teams.... Thats not say that a few units dont have them or are not allowing them to be issued, I have just only seen shooting teams with them...

As for the M9, it's big heavy and takes a lot of skill to become good with. I however have zero problem taking one into combat. $.02


----------



## JJOIFVET (Aug 5, 2009)

SF has 45's. As matter of fact when I was in the CIF, I Had my choice between a tricked out 45, a Glock 19, and a Beretta which no one chose. The team I am on now we had to turn our 45s in to get refurbished, we are now running Glock 19s.


----------



## terrapeed (Aug 5, 2009)

*M9*

Yea, It is a M9, but with what looks like Hogue rubber grips. Also seems to have an aftermarket mag. Floorplate is different. Beretta factory mags ain't the best. Springs need to be changed to Wolff.


----------



## Ajax (Aug 5, 2009)

surgicalcric said:


> The frame size/shape (handgrip mostly), the mag release size, slide release, not ambidextrous just to name a few...



Additionally, it is not constructed well.  I've broken two of them.  I think I said this before in another post.  By broken, I mean the shit broke, not just a stoppage.  I broke it.  I also hate that, for being a pistol with such a large frame, my right thumb seems to be inconveniently placed to hit the slide release when I'm wearing gloves.  This is an issue because when I pull the trigger and get a deadman's click, I have to make a split-second decision on whether I have a to tap-slap-rack or I need to change mags.


----------



## GackMan (Aug 5, 2009)

wow old thread...  The ODA that I worked with with in the exact same AO that pic was taken in had 1911s, M9s, and a couple Glocks, that's what I saw them carrying.


----------



## P. Beck (Aug 6, 2009)

It's an M9. Looks like he's added some sort of wrap-around grip (Hogue maybe) or grip tape.

Until I retire, I will politely refrain from any comments regarding SF guys using anything other than the official, issue, pistol, M9, one(1) ea.


----------

