# 4th MEB Anti terrorism Battalion



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

Greetings Comrades,

                                     I served with Anti terrorism Battalion from 2004-2008. The unit changed leadership various times. At first it was 4th MEB ATBN then, 2nd Marine Division ATBN, & then 4th Marine Division, but I was already out of the Corps by that time when it became 4th Marine Division. The reason I'm on here is to ask you guys if any of you knew anything about my unit. I've been out a while now & wanted to learn about why my unit was created & what purpose we severed. Were we really in the Special Operations Capable section? As you all know, the battalion was disbanded in 2007 which makes finding out information about the battalion even more difficult since there is no official website. Our training consisted primary of EMP, MOUT, and BUST. I might be missing a few things, so if any of the AT guys are out there, don't slam me to hard if I missed listing a few things. I was lucky enough to get to train in Israel learning their style or method of room clearing, style of engagements, the history of terrorist attacks against their military & law enforcement, & some rappelling. A few of our guys got to practice extraction from helicopters & some of us had the privilege of instruction from Blackwaters. We had a few fire teams be selected to complete in the Fleet Anti terrorism Completions to see who had the best fire teams out there. A couple of our guys got to attend a Pathfinder Course. Some of our platoons got to do PSD for VIPs. We got to do a few raids overseas, patrols along the Tigris river, ambushes, surveillance, and reconnaissance, etc. We had a few FAST Company guys, & a very few Recon guys get assigned in our unit once their time expired with their previous outfits. Of course knowledge was passed down to us on how to be better warriors & so on, but it was never explained to us why we existed. So my question to you guys is, why were we created? What purpose did we server? Were we in ever way in support of any SOC, SOF, & Spec Ops? Why did the Marine Corps disband our unit? Any information would be helpful. Thanks guys!

- Edge


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 24, 2014)

Uhhhhh, ah do wut?

How can you have served in a unit and not know what your unit mission, capabilities and strategic purpose was?

I'm sorry man that post is probably one of the worst I've seen in a long time.

"I did some shit, not really sure what, probably forgot a bunch, don't be made b/c I can't remember, what did my unit do and why did it even exist, am I SOF"

WTF? Dude did you hit your head or something?

WOW!


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

As a matter of fact... yes, I really did hit my head on something.  :  D


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 24, 2014)

Did some quick Googlefu and it appears your unit was a force protection antiterrorism capability to plus up where probable terror attacks may occur, as well as act as a response force to a terror attack. 

In other words you guys were a infantry unit with some extra training that was specific for FP/AT. I didn't find anything about it being Special Ops Capable (SOC) or any designate as a SOF unit. Why it was developed? I'm guessing the USMC got some extra funds for a new unit with antiterrorism in the title/mission statement. Why it was disbanded? Probably b/c the capability already existed in FAST, RECON and now MARSOC.

But I could be wrong as I'm not a Marine...


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks for the info! From my understanding the unit was considered a SOC outfit due to us being 4th MEB AT. We had Security Reg, FAST Co, Chemical Bio Teams, Foreign Military Training Teams in our unit, etc... but I needed to confirm it with a few SOC guys. We were trained & held to the same standards if not slightly lower. If that is the case & we don't rate SOC then ShadowSpear should to take off AT Battalion unit under SOC. However, the atmosphere or demeanor the guys had was that we were always a cut above normal line units, but it might of just be our leadership brainwashing us. Regardless, its doesn't really matter. I just wanted to get some insight about the outfit from some SOC, Spec Ops, SOF guys who may of worked with my unit. I knew that my unit had some major administrative issues which lead to other problems, but I can't pin point to the down fall of the outfit.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 24, 2014)

Maybe one of the SOF Marines on here can clarify for you.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

I hope so, but regardless, it doesn't matter.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 24, 2014)

One thing the Marine Corps loves more than itself, is history about itself. 

The concept of being a Marine and not knowing anything about the inception, purpose, mission, etc. of my unit makes all my WTF sensors go batshit. Cripe, I can only envision  the PowerPoints about the unit that  you must have seen.

I'll leave it to my Marine brothers who are SOF to decide whether to officially call "bullshit", but even your "thank you" to @JAB is odd. Thanks for what?  Googling the unit you say you were in?


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

I apologize brother if I've offended you. I just need to get vetted & it should sort itself out. Still waiting on the moderators to read & answer my messages. Is there a way of sending private messages?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 24, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> I apologize brother if I've offended you. I just need to get vetted & it should sort itself out. Still waiting on the moderators to read & answer my messages. Is there a way of sending private messages?


Just confused by the nature of your question; it reminded me of the beginning of a Dolph Lundgrin flick!


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 24, 2014)

I was always told I was a little bit of a goofy guy & a bit slow too. However, I always got the job done regardless if it was standing duty nco at the barracks. Boy did I hate that. Field days was a nightmare too. Moving your wall locker out of your room into the hallway & then having to move it back before inspection. What got on my nerves the most was having leadership who couldn't separate themselves from the drill field. It was by the number. I hated garrison life & loved overseas life. I just wished I had attended more schools & courses when I was offered. That is the number one thing I regret the most.


----------



## Kheenbish (Apr 25, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> Greetings Comrades,
> 
> I served with Anti terrorism Battalion from 2004-2008. The unit changed leadership various times. At first it was 4th MEB ATBN then, 2nd Marine Division ATBN, & then 4th Marine Division, but I was already out of the Corps by that time when it became 4th Marine Division. The reason I'm on here is to ask you guys if any of you knew anything about my unit. I've been out a while now & wanted to learn about why my unit was created & what purpose we severed. Were we really in the Special Operations Capable section? As you all know, the battalion was disbanded in 2007 which makes finding out information about the battalion even more difficult since there is no official website. Our training consisted primary of *EMP, MOUT, and BUST*. I might be missing a few things, so if any of the AT guys are out there, don't slam me to hard if I missed listing a few things. I was lucky enough to get to* train in Israel* learning their style or method of room clearing, style of engagements, the history of terrorist attacks against their military & law enforcement, & some rappelling. A few of our guys got to practice *extraction from helicopters* & some of us had the privilege of *instruction from Blackwaters*. We had a few fire teams be selected to complete in the *Fleet Anti terrorism Completions* to see who had the best fire teams out there. A couple of our guys got to attend a *Pathfinder Course*. Some of our platoons got to do PSD for VIPs. We got to do a few raids overseas, patrols along the Tigris river, ambushes, surveillance, and reconnaissance, etc. We had a few FAST Company guys, & a very few Recon guys get assigned in our unit once their time expired with their previous outfits. Of course knowledge was passed down to us on how to be better warriors & so on, but it was never explained to us why we existed. So my question to you guys is, why were we created? What purpose did we server? Were we in ever way in support of any SOC, SOF, & Spec Ops? Why did the Marine Corps disband our unit? Any information would be helpful. Thanks guys!
> 
> - Edge


 
Sorry, but this post kinda reads like the facts were pulled straight out of Wikipedia in the same order and you don't sound to confident for being one of the few who have served in this unit. Hope you get vetted and prove me wrong though.

Various schooling, in-house training, & courses attended 2004-2007

Urban Assault Climber Course
*Enhanced Marksmanship Program Shooting (EMP) 2004*
*Basic Urban Skills Training (BUST) 2004*
*Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT)*
Close Quarters Combat (CQB) 2004
*Israeli Mout Training and Shooting courses 2005*
*Blackwater Defensive Driving*
*Pathfinder Course 2007*
Scout Sniper School
Designated Marksman Courses 2005
Combat Marksmanship Course/ MOS 0933
Combat Lifesaver Courses 2005
Non-Lethal Weapons & Tactics Course 2005 (Special Operations Training Group II MEF)
*Blackwater N.C. Foreign Weapons group (2011 BSRF) Pre-deployment*
*FLEET ANTI-TERRORISM COMPETITION 2006*
The Special Patrol Insertion/Extraction (SPIE) 2007
*FAST Rope 2004*
Machine Gunners Course 2004-2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Terrorism_Battalion


----------



## devilbones (Apr 25, 2014)

Plus I dont know any Marine that refers to a unit as 'Outfit'.  Just me though.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 25, 2014)

How do you have questions about somewhere you were?


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 25, 2014)

As always, there are skeptics. I'll get vetted soon enough gents, so chill out. Let me get this out of the way, so these wolves can run back into their corners. I did not come on this claiming that I was Special Forces or Special Operations (go read the original messages & chill out)! I came here to confirm a few things with those who severed in my unit or who had knowledge of it. I also wanted to know if my unit was SOC & if its not SOC then it needs to be removed from SOC on ShadowSpear. Also, my education did not end when I ended my time in the Corps. I kept educating myself about various subjects. I ended up attending some civilian schools & met some great folks & had some great mentors, who I still keep in touch with. If anything, I've improved myself, not remained the same kid I was years ago. The language changed due to the environment & people I was surrounded by. As for training, EMP, MOUT, BUST, these are all required basic courses for Marines in that unit. Things may of changed when I was discharged out of the Corps. We have a facebook page where some of us AT guys shoot the sh*t & keep in touch. Wiki was a combined effort on many of us guys from the unit to keep updated & corrected. There is nothing on that page that is false & no crazy ninja kung fu crap either. Also, since we are on this subject, I did not do anything special. ATBN was a group of guys who stood post watch high threat bases & being the QRF incase something happened. Once in a while we were tasked out with some missions, but it was not to common. There it is guys, so chill out. The mission sucked, but the training was good or at least I thought. TLDR20, the SOF guys like yourself are the guys that we really looked up to & wanted to learn from every chance we could. Also, all the elite guys always treated us lower class guys equal & it meant a lot to us. I didn't have any questions where I was, but I did have questions about why my unit was created? Why the switched commands so many times? Why we were disbanded? Just a few things I wondered about years later.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 25, 2014)

The occasional new paragraph is your friend, just feedback if you decide to stick around.  Those are a lot of words strung together, give our poor phone screens a break and offer the occasional spacing.

Hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 25, 2014)

Kheenbish, they called being humble & knowing my place.

Will do! Thanks Ooh-Rah1069!


----------



## Teufel (Apr 25, 2014)

Let me clear this up.  4th MEB was not a SOF unit (they did some cool anti-terrorism stuff though) but did serve as the nucleus for MARSOC's headquarters element when MARSOC was stood up.  You had a lot of conventional guys randomly assigned leadership billets in a SOF unit.  Yes that is as retarded as it sounds.  1st and 2nd Force served as the nucleus for 1st and 2nd MSOB, Foreign Military Training Unit served as the nucleus for 3d MSOB and they used 4th MEB's structure and personnel to create MARSOC HQ and the regiment.  This caused a whole host of issues since no one from 4th MEB was really qualified to sit at SOCOM's table.  You had a lot of conventional LtCols and Majors running around the halls of SOCOM and MARSOC talking SOF and causing problems.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 25, 2014)

Yes! That is what I wanted to know! Thank you!

: D

Why couldn't they just of assigned a regular line unit to the mission?


----------



## Teufel (Apr 25, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> Why couldn't they just of assigned a regular line unit to the mission?


4th MEB was an experiment.  They wanted to develop a new anti-terrorism unit and played around with it in the form of 4th MEB.  They decided that such a unit was not needed and killed two birds with one stone by using it to form MARSOC's HQ.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 25, 2014)

Wow! I feel so used. Lol! Thank you Teufel! So what are us ATBN guys? Are we regular line guys or security guards?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 25, 2014)

http://www.monterey.army.mil/DPTMS/at_definitions.html

*Definitions*
*ANTITERRORISM:* Defensive measures used to reduce the vulnerability of individuals and property to terrorist acts, to include limited response and containment by local military forces. 

*COMBATING TERRORISM:* Actions, including antiterrorism (defensive measures taken to reduce vulnerability to terrorist acts) and counter-terrorism (offensive measures taken to prevent, deter, and respond to terrorism), taken to oppose terrorism throughout the entire threat spectrum. 

*COUNTER-TERRORISM:* Offensive measures taken to prevent, deter, and respond to terrorism. 

*DETERRENCE:* The prevention from action by fear of the consequences. Deterrence is a state of mind brought about by the existence of a credible threat of unacceptable counteraction. 

*FORCE PROTECTION PROGRAM:* Security program designed to protect service members, civilian employees, family members, facilities, and equipment, in all locations and situations, accomplished through planned and integrated application of combating terrorism, physical security, operations security, personal protective services, and supported by intelligence, counterintelligence, and other security programs. 

*PHYSICAL SECURITY:* That part of security concerned with physical measures designed to safeguard personnel; to prevent unauthorized access to equipment, installations, material and documents; and to safeguard them against espionage, sabotage, damage, and theft. 

*PROACTIVE MEASURES:* In antiterrorism, measures taken in the preventative stage of antiterrorism designed to harden targets and detect actions BEFORE they occur. 

*TERRORISM:* The calculated use of unlawful violence, or threat of unlawful violence, to inculcate fear. It is intended to coerce, or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological. 

*TERRORIST:* An individual who uses violence, terror, and intimidation to achieve a result. 

*TERRORIST GROUPS:* Any element, regardless of size or espoused cause, which repeatedly commits acts of violence or threatens violence in pursuit of its political, religious, or ideological objectives.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 25, 2014)

Thank you Jab! Nice chart!  :  D


----------



## Teufel (Apr 26, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> Wow! I feel so used. Lol! Thank you Teufel! So what are us AT guys? Are we regular line guys or security guards?


There is no such thing as an AT guy in the Marine Corps.  There were Marines assigned to an AT battalion.  AT is not an MOS.  There isn't a such thing as a regular line guy.  There are infantrymen and other MOSes, all of which were represented in 4th MEB.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 26, 2014)

I see. So a combined outfit of various classes and a different mission. So the structure of the unit has been gone over now. How about the mission? Was there ever a anti terrorism mission prior to the creation of the unit & if so, does a mission like that still exist with the ATBN being dissolved? Couldn't Marine Security Regiment of just been tasked with Anti terrorism duties?


----------



## Teufel (Apr 26, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> I see. So a combined outfit of various classes and a different mission. So the structure of the unit has been gone over now. How about the mission? Was there ever a anti terrorism mission prior to the creation of the unit & if so, does a mission like that still exist with the ATBN being dissolved? Couldn't Marine Security Regiment of just been tasked with Anti terrorism duties?



Dude, 4th MEB stood up in late 2004 and was deactivated in early 2006.  This thread has lasted longer than 4th MEB did.  I don't know what to tell you.  It was somebody's "good idea" that lasted 18 months.  The AT Bn lasted a bit longer but was really just an infantry battalion with some specialized training.  I believe it turned into 1/9 or 2/9 in 2007.


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 26, 2014)

Oh my goodness! I came asking for information Teufel! If it bugs you then you don't have to reply. 4th MEB may of been dissolved, but ATBN still stock around until late 2007 with its companies & elements still overseas on duty. I would know since I was one of the last guys to return not including the guys from the Mitt teams. This tread is closed!


----------



## Chopstick (Apr 26, 2014)




----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 26, 2014)

Yeah, I love you to man...   :.. (  cough...


----------



## MOTOMETO (Apr 26, 2014)

I'm surprised Teufel even entertained your silly questions this long. Way to show your ass.


----------



## AWP (Apr 26, 2014)

roninsthao85 said:


> Oh my goodness! I came asking for information Teufel! If it bugs you then you don't have to reply. 4th MEB may of been dissolved, but ATBN still stock around until late 2007 with its companies & elements still overseas on duty. I would know since I was one of the last guys to return not including the guys from the Mitt teams. This tread is closed!


 
Have you lost your mind? You just took a dump on a decorated Marine officer and then closed it by presuming to do MY "job" on this website?


----------



## roninsthao85 (Apr 26, 2014)

O.k. Enough! I'm grateful Teufel explained the history & purpose of the organization. If someone doesn't want to go further into the subject matter, then just let me know. No harm meant.


----------



## AWP (Apr 26, 2014)

Banned until the 29th. Poor SA and attitude.


----------



## AKkeith (Apr 26, 2014)

Thank God... Er ahh, Freefalling?


----------



## AWP (Apr 26, 2014)

So here's the deal with the temp ban:

I don't know what roninsthao85's deal is, but between this thread and the "old dogs" thread elsewhere we've kind of had enough. You wouldn't walk into a room full of Marines as a newly minted PFC and then proceed to act like this. You wouldn't walk into a man's home and act like this. (at least I would hope not) We're not going to tolerate some new guy spewing his ignorance and attitude. Maybe roninsthao85 has something to offer, maybe this is the "learning point" needed, but honestly his signal to noise ratio is through the roof.

Either learn how to interact with people or "get got." Your behavior over the last hour is inexcusable and if you don't understand the "why" behind my statement, then we wish you luck in your future endeavours. You came to us asking for help, but you expect us to tolerate your mouth? "Beggars can't be choosers"

Thread closed.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 26, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> So here's the deal with the temp ban:
> 
> I don't know what roninsthao85's deal is, but between this thread and the "old dogs" thread elsewhere we've kind of had enough. You wouldn't walk into a room full of Marines as a newly minted PFC and then proceed to act like this. You wouldn't walk into a man's home and act like this. (at least I would hope not) We're not going to tolerate some new guy spewing his ignorance and attitude. Maybe roninsthao85 has something to offer, maybe this is the "learning point" needed, but honestly his signal to noise ratio is through the roof.
> 
> ...


Dude you used two syllable words talking to Marines. They are not going to understand. Just perm ban the TARD


----------

