# Retired Green Beret Contractor killed in alleged fratricide



## Cookie_ (Jan 8, 2019)

Excerpted  from The Daily Beast


> ...Rodriguez’s death, which multiple sources said was the result of a sudden fracas involving U.S. Marines...atmosphere of bravado and trash-talking,  involving multiple people, spilled over into a brawl that left the contractor pummelled and then stomped into unconsciousness. The military source said the incident had “lots of witnesses.”....Two enlisted Marines, said to be gunnery sergeants, are considered persons of interest in Rodriguez’s death, the military source said.



This is an awful way for our community to start the new year. I hope all involved are prosecuted.

Godspeed Rodriguez.


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## x SF med (Jan 8, 2019)

Cookie_101st said:


> Excerpted  from The Daily Beast
> 
> 
> This is an awful way for our community to start the new year. I hope all involved are prosecuted.
> ...



bad link


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## Gunz (Jan 8, 2019)

Try this:

American defense contractor in Iraq DIES after he was 'pummeled into unconsciousness' by Marines | Daily Mail Online


What the hell is happening to our military. RIP Warrior.


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## Cookie_ (Jan 8, 2019)

x SF med said:


> bad link


Thanks. Fixed it


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## DA SWO (Jan 8, 2019)

Fucking morons.
Hope the ID the killers and quickly bring them to justice.


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## digrar (Jan 8, 2019)

Cookie_101st said:


> stomped into unconsciousness



Cowardly bunch of cunts.


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 8, 2019)

WTF!!! Been in my share of interservice bar fights, who hasn't. But, I never thought I would see the day. That I would read about something like this. It's fucking disgusting and, all responsible should have their bowels loosed to the floor!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 8, 2019)

Tinman6 said:


> WTF!!! Been in my share of interservice bar fights, who hasn't. But, I never thought I would see the day. That I would read about something like this. It's fucking disgusting and, all responsible should have their bowels loosed to the floor!



Idk about that, it's wasn't all that uncommon in Iraq. Maybe not so much interservice stuff,  but a lot of blue on blue. Just didn't make the headlines as much as it does now. I guess when you don't have stories of detainees being abused or non-combatants being killed, the news will go after any story of "shock and outrage".

We had a NCO shoot another NCO for fucking his wife,  Who was in return shot by another soldier who saw it go down. 03-04'ish

Dude on dude sexual assaults (prison style)  in Al Assad airbase was a thing in 2008'ish.

Back in the 90's a bunch 101'st troops beat a gay kid to death in his barracks for, well, being gay. 

Anyway, damn shame, I'd like to read the full on event and know what went down. Get the full report, because as it reads right now,  sounds like a brawl that got out of hand. Elbow or knee to the head can kill someone,  choke held too long, etc.  It's doesn't necessarily mean a couple of Marine Gunny's straight murdered a dude over "my funny hat is better than your funny hat". I tend to think two Marine E7's and a retired SF soldier are bit more professional than that.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 8, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Maybe not so much interservice stuff, but a lot of blue on blue. Just didn't make the headlines as much as it does now.


A husband of one of my wife’s best friends was jumped in Iraq by service members. They beat him so bad he has severe PTS from the event and cannot leave the house without his service dog.  

He was an Army major at the time. 




Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Anyway, damn shame, I'd like to read the full on event and know what went down. Get the full report, because as it reads right now, sounds like a brawl that got out of hand.


Strong agree.


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## Grunt (Jan 8, 2019)

It's pathetic that Warriors have to act like kids and let themselves go to the level of killing one another....

It's a crying shame and at the end of the day...there were no winners in their childish games.


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 8, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Idk about that, it's wasn't all that uncommon in Iraq. Maybe not so much interservice stuff,  but a lot of blue on blue. Just didn't make the headlines as much as it does now. I guess when you don't have stories of detainees being abused or non-combatants being killed, the news will go after any story of "shock and outrage".
> 
> We had a NCO shoot another NCO for fucking his wife,  Who was in return shot by another soldier who saw it go down. 03-04'ish
> 
> ...


Yes, I too would like to get the straight and complete story/facts. I guess we'll see, or not. I went into the Army in '79 and served through the 80's. I obviously don't know what bolt of material. They cut fuckers from anymore. Yes, we were homophobic, misogynistic, alcoholic, knuckle dragging beasts who probably belonged in a cage off duty. We had some bad actors. Who were weeded out quickly. But nothing like this.  It's a damn shame either way.


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 8, 2019)

Grunt said:


> It's pathetic that Warriors have to act like kids and let themselves go to the level of killing one another....
> 
> It's a crying shame and at the end of the day...there was no winners in their childish games.


I strongly agree!!!


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 8, 2019)

The plot thickens. 

Add a Navy Corpsman and MARSOC to the mix. 

Two Marines, Navy corpsman under investigation in Iraq death of contractor and former Green Beret


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## Cookie_ (Jan 8, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Back in the 90's a bunch 101'st troops beat a gay kid to death in his barracks for, well, being gay.
> 
> Anyway, damn shame, I'd like to read the full on event and know what went down. Get the full report, because as it reads right now,  sounds like a brawl that got out of hand. Elbow or knee to the head can kill someone,  choke held too long, etc.  It's doesn't necessarily mean a couple of Marine Gunny's straight murdered a dude over "my funny hat is better than your funny hat". I tend to think two Marine E7's and a retired SF soldier are bit more professional than that.



That 101st dude was Barry Winchell, with 2/502. I remember learning about him (and the Al-Jabani rape/murders) about a month after I inprocessed Strike.

I'm waiting for more; right now, it seems like a brawl happened and nobody stopped it while they were stomping on the dude. Bystander effect to the fullest if that's the case.


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## Gunz (Jan 8, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The plot thickens.
> 
> Add a Navy Corpsman and MARSOC to the mix.
> 
> Two Marines, Navy corpsman under investigation in Iraq death of contractor and former Green Beret



I think we need to start another war somewhere to keep everybody busy.


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## Cookie_ (Jan 8, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The plot thickens.
> 
> Add a Navy Corpsman and MARSOC to the mix.
> 
> Two Marines, Navy corpsman under investigation in Iraq death of contractor and former Green Beret



So two Raiders, who are both Gunnys(Gunnies?) according to the Daily Beast, and a corpsman, MARSOC unit, New Years Eve?

I'm not going to start speculating on what transpired, but I won't be surprised if it's found out there may have been alcohol involved.


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## Gunz (Jan 8, 2019)

Gunnys with a y.


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## DA SWO (Jan 8, 2019)

Cookie_101st said:


> That 101st dude was Barry Winchell, with 2/502. I remember learning about him (and the Al-Jabani rape/murders) about a month after I inprocessed Strike.
> 
> I'm waiting for more; right now, it seems like a brawl happened and nobody stopped it while they were stomping on the dude. Bystander effect to the fullest if that's the case.


Maybe the bystanders were afraid of the roid raging trio ( and roid rage is used as a metaphor).


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## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Back in the 90's a bunch 101'st troops beat a gay kid to death in his barracks for, well, gay.



I’m m pretty sure that happened in my old battalion, or at least my brigade, of the 101st.


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## AWP (Jan 8, 2019)

WTF is going on in MARSOC these days? The two in Mali and now these Marines? Damn...


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 8, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The plot thickens.
> 
> Add a Navy Corpsman and MARSOC to the mix.
> 
> Two Marines, Navy corpsman under investigation in Iraq death of contractor and former Green Beret


Indeed it does.


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 8, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> I think we need to start another war somewhere to keep everybody busy.


At first I felt the same as you. But, I see how out front in the public eye and limelight. All of the units that way back when nobody had ever even heard of. Until the drawdown of conventional forces and, the massive recruitment for "operators" in the SOF community. So there was more than likely a relaxing of a few of the standards. Simple statistics will bear out. That the more eggs in a basket. The higher the percentage of bad eggs you will have, regardless of the inspection standard. Unless each and every one is closely examined. The physical and mental/psyche standard we had to meet in the unit I was in were tighter than a gnats ass. With constant monitoring for deficiencies. But, we were dealing in environments where fuckery of any sort was swiftly addressed. Because you ain't playing grabass and fuck yer buddy in places where the enemy is a bug or a neutron or sarin!


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## Teufel (Jan 9, 2019)

AWP said:


> WTF is going on in MARSOC these days? The two in Mali and now these Marines? Damn...


I'm sure the command is feeling some heat right now. The Marine Corps does not like bad PR.


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## Gunz (Jan 9, 2019)

AWP said:


> WTF is going on in MARSOC these days? The two in Mali and now these Marines? Damn...



SEALitis.


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## Gunz (Jan 9, 2019)

Tinman6 said:


> At first I felt the same as you. But, I see how out front in the public eye and limelight. All of the units that way back when nobody had ever even heard of. Until the drawdown of conventional forces and, the massive recruitment for "operators" in the SOF community. So there was more than likely a relaxing of a few of the standards. Simple statistics will bear out. That the more eggs in a basket. The higher the percentage of bad eggs you will have, regardless of the inspection standard. Unless each and every one is closely examined. The physical and mental/psyche standard we had to meet in the unit I was in were tighter than a gnats ass. With constant monitoring for deficiencies. But, we were dealing in environments where fuckery of any sort was swiftly addressed. Because you ain't playing grabass and fuck yer buddy in places where the enemy is a bug or a neutron or sarin!



That could be part of it. I still think a lot has to do with the down-sizing of combat operations, fewer deployment opportunities and less action during deployments.

Most of the NCOs in my company at Lejeune were jungle rats with Purple Hearts and CARs...very difficult adjusting to garrison life knowing there was little chance of combat action. It can be like withdrawal.

Although I could be entirely wrong in these recent cases. I just know fighters gotta fight.


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## suaveflooder (Jan 9, 2019)

Read about this early in today.  Sucks that this keeps happening


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 10, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> That could be part of it. I still think a lot has to do with the down-sizing of combat operations, fewer deployment opportunities and less action during deployments.
> 
> Most of the NCOs in my company at Lejeune were jungle rats with Purple Hearts and CARs...very difficult adjusting to garrison life knowing there was little chance of combat action. It can be like withdrawal.
> 
> Although I could be entirely wrong in these recent cases. I just know fighters gotta fight.


I concur with you on your conclusion. I bear many scars.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 16, 2019)

*- UPDATE -*

Two Marine Raiders and corpsman face manslaughter charges in retired Green Beret master sergeant’s death

_“At this time, charges against three members of MARSOC in connection with the death of Mr. Rodriguez have been referred to a general court-martial,” according to a Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command email statement. “During this process, it is imperative that the rights of the service members are protected, and the integrity of the military justice system is maintained. We are committed to ensuring this process is conducted in a fair and impartial manner.”_


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## DA SWO (Dec 16, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *- UPDATE -*
> 
> Two Marine Raiders and corpsman face manslaughter charges in retired Green Beret master sergeant’s death
> 
> _“At this time, charges against three members of MARSOC in connection with the death of Mr. Rodriguez have been referred to a general court-martial,” according to a Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command email statement. “During this process, it is imperative that the rights of the service members are protected, and the integrity of the military justice system is maintained. We are committed to ensuring this process is conducted in a fair and impartial manner.”_


So what's accurate?  Does the video show them monkey stomping the retire SF MSG, or does the video show the MSG picking a fight and getting ejected from the bar?

What was the initial confrontation about?


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## Bypass (Dec 17, 2019)

Tinman6 said:


> WTF!!! Been in my share of interservice bar fights, who hasn't. But, I never thought I would see the day. That I would read about something like this. It's fucking disgusting and, all responsible should have their bowels loosed to the floor!


I've never been in an interservice bar fight. I mean what better reason could there be for a bar fight. "Your uniform is ghey." Ok let's fight.


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## Teufel (Dec 17, 2019)

Here is a key passage that puts this story in a different, while still tragic light 

“Based on what was shared at the September hearing, witnesses made statements and video evidence showed that Rodriguez [SF] and other defense contractors were celebrating the new year in the off-base nightclub....Later that night, security camera footage appeared to show Rodriguez visibly angry and shouting at Gilmet [Corpsman].

Rodriguez was escorted from the club by security, Stackhouse said, where he and his colleagues waited outside.

Outside of the club, Draher told the court in a statement, he, Negron and Gilmet approached Rodriguez to resolve the argument.
Draher allegedly walks up to Rodriguez, who lunges at him, Draher said he thought that Rodriguez was going to head-butt him so he shoved him back with one hand to the chest.
That’s when Rodriguez makes a wide swing at Draher, Stackhouse said. It’s not clear whether the swing struck Draher, but Rodriguez then cocked back to swing again at Draher. Mid-swing, Negron stepped in and punched Rodriguez once, knocking him to the ground.”

Looks like these fellas were drinking, apparently the contractor swung at one of the Raiders, and one of the Marines responded with a single punch. The video evidence will tell that tale. That’s a different story than I imagined when I first heard about this. It doesn’t seem that anyone acted with intentional malice here. I suspect these men will burn for breaking the no-alcohol policy, which I assume was in place still, and maybe a curfew violation. I’m not sure they should be charged with manslaughter if the video supports a self defense argument and they didn’t respond disproportionately.


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## Gunz (Dec 17, 2019)

Rodriguez died hours after being punched once. That alone opens up reasonable doubt. Still, to see active and former SF/SOF staff NCOs getting caught up in juvenile bullshit like this...but in fairness, I'm one to talk. With enough alcohol even the Pope could get in a bar fight.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 17, 2019)

Teufel said:


> Rodriguez was escorted from the club by security,


I gotta think bar security for a place that has current and former SOF getting hammered every night, is probably more than just some random dude with a black tshirt.


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## AWP (Dec 17, 2019)

I think the fact that they didn't take him in for medical care will be their biggest problem. This was a bar fight gone wrong, but the guy is drunk, knocked out cold, stays out, and no one went to get a doc?


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## DA SWO (Dec 17, 2019)

AWP said:


> I think the fact that they didn't take him in for medical care will be their biggest problem. This was a bar fight gone wrong, but the guy is drunk, knocked out cold, stays out, and no one went to get a doc?


That hangs the Corpsman, as the other two can legitimately say they deferred to him.
I think JAG added manslaughter just to be a dick, they'll offer to drop that charge in exchange for a guilty plea for the GO #1 violations.


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## Teufel (Dec 17, 2019)

AWP said:


> I think the fact that they didn't take him in for medical care will be their biggest problem. This was a bar fight gone wrong, but the guy is drunk, knocked out cold, stays out, and no one went to get a doc?


I dunno, I have to wonder about what kind of friends this guy has. Why did they ditch them? They did say the 18D equivalent corpsman did check him out before leaving with the roommate. I think the roommate should have immediately taken him to medical as well. Multiple levels of failure here


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## LibraryLady (Dec 17, 2019)

Injured guy was drunk. Bet the others were also drunk and made some rather poor decisions as a result.

GO#1 has a purpose.

LL


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## Marauder06 (Dec 17, 2019)

These clowns are the reason we have to have things like GO #1.  Idiots who can’t handle their shit.


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## DA SWO (Dec 17, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> These clowns are the reason we have to habe things like GO #1.  Idiots who can’t handle their shit.


Does GO#1 apply to contractors?
@AWP


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## AWP (Dec 18, 2019)

DA SWO said:


> Does GO#1 apply to contractors?
> @AWP



Hmm, so I looked it up on the Wing's website. In Bagram and Kandahar, the Wings had a GO-1 link on their respective homepages. Here outside of shooty places, they do not. I had to do some digging to find it on the Wing's page.

Except from the Wing Community Standards:


> Military personnel are subject to the latest versions of United States Central Command General Order 1C (USCENTCOM GO-1C) and United States Air Forces Central General Order 1C (USAFCENT GO-1C), as well as the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). In accordance with Article 2(a)(10), UCMJ, all DoD civilians and contractor personnel assigned to work on ADAB are also subject to the UCMJ.



Per GO-1C, alcohol is prohibited in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. Security Cooperation Offices can allow a waiver for personnel assigned to an SCO to possess and consume alcohol.

Unless those guys fell under an SCO, they are dicked on the alcohol charge. For those of us outside of the aforementioned countries, we're G2G to consume alcohol provided we don't show up for work drunk, DUI, etc.

And GO-1C is dated from 2013.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 18, 2019)

Alcohol, bad decisions, and cover-ups.  Common themes in too many cases like this.


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## Teufel (Dec 18, 2019)

SOCOM has always sold the public, and congress, that you can deploy SOF into highly sensitive areas because of their advanced levels of maturity, discipline, and competence. These examples like this of SOF ignoring rules and regulations is going erode that confidence. I would assume that this violation of GO #1 was not an isolated incident and suspect that the SOTF/battalion turned a blind eye to it. I'm sure the investigation will figure that out real quick and some field grade officers may also find themselves on the chopping block.


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## Gunz (Dec 18, 2019)

AWP said:


> Hmm, so I looked it up on the Wing's website. In Bagram and Kandahar, the Wings had a GO-1 link on their respective homepages. Here outside of shooty places, they do not. I had to do some digging to find it on the Wing's page.
> 
> Except from the Wing Community Standards:
> 
> ...



GO1 also bans porn. I have a suspicion it was floating around anyway.


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## Gunz (Dec 18, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> Alcohol, bad decisions, and cover-ups.  Common themes in too many cases like this.





Teufel said:


> SOCOM has always sold the public, and congress, that you can deploy SOF into highly sensitive areas because of their advanced levels of maturity, discipline, and competence. These examples like this of SOF ignoring rules and regulations is going erode that confidence. I would assume that this violation of GO #1 was not an isolated incident and suspect that the SOTF/battalion turned a blind eye to it. I'm sure the investigation will figure that out real quick and some field grade officers may also find themselves on the chopping block.




Sirs...do you think any of this could be a result of fewer combat opportunities, more boredom? Or a kind of withdrawal from adrenal stimulation? I just can't help compare some of this trouble with post-war garrison duty. I know SF/SOF are kept pretty busy most of the time, but they're wound-up.


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## Teufel (Dec 18, 2019)

Gunz said:


> Sirs...do you think any of this could be a result of fewer combat opportunities, more boredom? Or a kind of withdrawal from adrenal stimulation? I just can't help compare some of this trouble with post-war garrison duty. I know SF/SOF are kept pretty busy most of the time, but they're wound-up.


This sounds like a basic discipline problem to me. Remove alcohol from this situation, which occurred in a combat zone by the way, and I think it doesn’t happen.


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## Gunz (Dec 18, 2019)

Teufel said:


> This sounds like a basic discipline problem to me. Remove alcohol from this situation, which occurred in a combat zone by the way, and I think it doesn’t happen.



Rog that...but I kind of meant in broader terms, service wide, among combat arms MOSs...and all the more publisized cases involving SEALs, Raiders SF/SOF etc. I was just thinking there might be more drug/alcohol/behavior/discipline issues that might be attributed to fewer deployment opportunities, less action.

I know 2ndMARDIV CG read the riot act in a directive not long ago...and NSW has done the same.


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## LibraryLady (Dec 18, 2019)

@Gunz - one big difference between now and Vietnam is conscription.

LL


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## Gunz (Dec 18, 2019)

LibraryLady said:


> @Gunz - one big difference between now and Vietnam is conscription.
> 
> LL



Yes ma'am, that's very true. But the Marines didn't draft many. In fact I don't think I ever met a Marine draftee.

And yet there were problems. You had salty combat vets coming back into the rifle companies in the Fleet, many of them suffering from PTSD that nobody recognized, many yearning for that adrenal fix of combat and trying to find substitutes for it...through bar fights, drugs, alcohol, driving their cars or motorcycles like maniacs...and then you had all these young guys coming up from SOI, privates and PFCs who missed the war but just wanted to be trigger-pullers, action guys...and the war was over. There was no place for them to be the fighters they wanted to be.

I just recognize many parallels between post-war then and post-war now. And I see these young guys who post on here who want to be in combat, they want to be Green Berets, Rangers, Raiders, Recon, they want to kick doors and pull triggers. But there fewer deployment opportunities, less combat. And then there are our OEF/OIF veterans on here some dealing with PTSD, family break-ups, alcohol, drugs, divorce, transition problems, anger, whatever...

It's like deja vu.


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