# M5 Bag organization



## RustyShackleford (Jul 31, 2012)

I just got an Eagle M5 bag shipped to me from our guys down south.  Any advice on how some of you guys have your packs organized would be appreciated, as this is my first time out with an M5.


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## x SF med (Jul 31, 2012)

Do you have the single open or the 3 compartment fold over bag? (I personally prefer the 3 compartment foldover, and use surgical tape for the contents list in each compartment...   anal, huh?)  My method is to start at where your right hand will naturally fall for the first items you will use and expect low level use (basic level 1 bleed w/o airway) for initial grab.   If this is to be used mainly for levels 2 and 3 get your gear placed where you know it will be every time, and load and unload the bag repeatedly the same way...  and then practice it in the dark (just like a ruck on patrol) until you know when you look at it if it's packed differently.   Definitely pack in level of need order based on mission and normal use pattern as noted ....  it's your bag, make it work for you, and if anybody screws with it, kill them slowly and painfully with the item that was moved, taken or used without your knowledge....  nobody goes in your medkit, ever, never ever, never, never ever no way  unless you give them permission and know exactly what is being used or moved...  someboy's life could depend on that 'one bandaid' or 'little bit of antiseptic'.


ymmv....  put the tourniquets (plural, note - have at least 2, but 5 is better) on the outside where you get at them first...  if you need them, you need them 5 minutes ago.


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## RustyShackleford (Jul 31, 2012)

This here be the one, minus all the colorful OPAs in the pic.  I am picking up what you're putting down in your post and need to lay all my shit out and see what works.  I'm used to having one big compartment along with mesh pouches or elastic bands holding everything in place, rather than the three velcro compartments along with the big one at the bottom.


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## Mac_NZ (Jul 31, 2012)

Rusty, has it got MOLLE on the front?

If it does I can send you some lengths of shock cord and cordlocs to mount TQs to the front.  It's a pretty secure method and wont degrade like rubber bands under UV rays.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 31, 2012)

Send me your email, and I will send you the JSOMTC packing list and pictures.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 31, 2012)

Now this is just my idea, but you can try it out and see if you like it or if it's a bag of ass: 

nose hoses and oral airways on the loopie doops That's your A.
BVM in the bottom of the bag with mask attached, that's your B
First "rip off" bag is your circulation. Kerlex, Combat gauze, ETD's, Hemcon, whatever flavor of keep red stuff in to go roundy roundy equipment you use.  Put Red duct tape on it with offset tabs to be able to rip it open easy regardless of grip condition. This sits right on top as you open it

2nd ripoff that's kept towards the hinge is your continuing care. Finger pulse-ox, bp cuff, etc. Blue tape strips, offset to open easy.
3rd ripoff is your bitches and itches bag, 4x4's, bandaids, vagisil for that one guy, rectal thermometer, etc.
Fluids, BVM, and other associated ass and trash that you keep on you goes in the bottom, organized for ease of grabbery and with surgical tape affixed to each w/ tabs for opening and written labels. 

As the trollmeister said, TQ's go on the outside, although you as a medicky dude should just be rocking more than your fair share straight on your gear, vs having to fish in an aid bag.

Contemplate getting a roll-up hangable bag if you're rocking anything like a van or a burban on a regular basis, and figuring out how to affix it so you have a "gear wall". Why wait for 5-10 minutes for an ambulance when you can have someone drive you code to the hospital, and get there when the ambulance was getting to you (theoretically).


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## x SF med (Jul 31, 2012)

Sasquatch has seen my fold out med bag...  set up as level 1, then 2 then 3 in each zipper compartment...  I consider my bp cuff, sthoscope and IV starts level 2...  as well as 1/2 my kerlix stock and 1 israeli type bandage and 1 ab pad with no hemocure.  Level 3 has 2 field surg kits and a shit load of suture gear and scalpels along with fluid and extra iv tubing and starts (from 22ga down to 16ga...  as big a bore as you can get into the pt, right?)...  betadine goes in level 1, alcopreps in every compartment.  Again, it works for me...  even the pretty pictures and fancy words Cback will send can be modified to the user...  Primum non Nocere.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 31, 2012)

Yeah, but you have to take into account that Rusty's running basically EMT-ish, not Troll-Med level 1 center.. lol


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## Etype (Jul 31, 2012)

The best thing you can do with an M5 bag is this-

Dump out all the medical stuff.
Find a tourniquet in the pile, put that on your gear somewhere with some rubber bands (or if you are airborne qualified, some _retainer bands_).  The rest of the medical stuff goes in the trash, unless there are lollipops or morphine in there- stuff that in your pocket and save it for tonight.
Fill your newly emptied M5 bag with loaded magazines, a couple M67s, a nalgene bottle, and a few snickers bars.
It doesn't matter where you put the stuff, as long as it's all in there, it's good.


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## Muppet (Aug 1, 2012)

Well, it's all been said. I carried one in the 325 and had a packing list set forth by the reg. / brigade surgeon. Can you post pics. when you get it all squared away bro?

F.M.


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## policemedic (Aug 1, 2012)

As long as you keep your priorities of care in mind when you set it up, you'll be fine.  Post some pics when you've got her good to go


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks guys.  The wife is growing tired of me and my gear layouts all over the house lately and the garage is starting to look more and more like a LE/Ranger Co. supply room.

Mac: yep, it has Molle on the front.

Cback: info sent, as well as what we are required to carry.

RP: we apparently like to set shit up the same way.  Considering our backgrounds, not surprising.  And you are right, it is more EMTish than 18D...we do have an expanded scope though.

xSF: I hate you.  

Etype: wasn't it you and I (among others) who had the conversation regarding LE who carry more shit on them than a Ranger raiding Dr. Evil's lair?  My GOV is quickly turning into a two seater rather than a four seater because of all the shit i am issued/required to carry.  

I have a second smaller bag made by TacMed solutions which works pretty well for what we normally do and literally hangs off of the head rest into the back seat.  I'll post pics when it is set up.


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## Ranger Psych (Aug 1, 2012)

I just look at it from the perspective that "Once someone gets hit, I will have to deal with them as a casualty while everyone else is busy Razing the objective. Once the earth is salted, They'll come help me take care of him and I'll be better off having shit color coded for easy identification."


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## x SF med (Aug 1, 2012)

RustyShackleford said:


> ...
> xSF: I hate you.
> 
> ...


 

I feel tolerated.    Thank you.   But, I must ask....  WTF did I do to be hated this time?   I prefer to be named.....  'wiener licker' btw...

Rangers....   friggin Rangers ....   especially when they become FedLEOs...  is there a vaccine for them?


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 1, 2012)

Absolutely nothing!


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## x SF med (Aug 1, 2012)

Ranger Psych said:


> Yeah, but you have to take into account that Rusty's running basically EMT-ish, not Troll-Med level 1 center.. lol


 
When the zombies, aliens or commies get here you'll see that my med kit is a good thing.....  It has already survived Sasquatch and Bibiquatch and crazy dog....  so there...


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## x SF med (Aug 1, 2012)

RustyShackleford said:


> Absolutely nothing!


 
Now I feel special...  unmitigated unprovoked hatred from Rusty....  I am the Troll!!!!


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## Ranger Psych (Aug 1, 2012)

x SF med said:


> When the zombies, aliens or commies get here you'll see that my med kit is a good thing..... It has already survived Sasquatch and Bibiquatch and crazy dog.... so there...


 
Never said it wouldn't be... but your level of training is commensurate with the type of apparatus you maintain in that bag.  While I personally COULD step up and break out a surgical set... that'd be like a civil war doctor taking care of things


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## x SF med (Aug 1, 2012)

^^  bad image.....

please make it go away


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## Etype (Aug 1, 2012)

RustyShackleford said:


> Etype: wasn't it you and I (among others) who had the conversation regarding LE who carry more shit on them than a Ranger raiding Dr. Evil's lair? My GOV is quickly turning into a two seater rather than a four seater because of all the shit i am issued/required to carry.
> 
> I have a second smaller bag made by TacMed solutions which works pretty well for what we normally do and literally hangs off of the head rest into the back seat. I'll post pics when it is set up.


That was me. In regards to the second half of the post, I have a small London Bridge med bag that I use as an assault pack. I think med bags are great for other things as well because they have more compartments. I like to keep my stuff compartmentalized so it doesn't puke out all over the ground when I want one specific thing- think trying to find your neck gaiter inside your ALICE pack at night, usually not worth it.


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 2, 2012)

Etype said:


> think trying to find your neck gaiter inside your ALICE pack at night, usually not worth it.


 
Being able to reach into a pack crammed full of shit and grab exactly what you want in the middle of the night without looking is an artform most of us perfected at one point during our military careers!


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 2, 2012)

By the way, I layed all my shit out and loaded up the bag last night.  When I get a chance, I'll take a couple pics and post them.


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## pardus (Apr 21, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> By the way, I layed all my shit out and loaded up the bag last night. When I get a chance, I'll take a couple pics and post them.


 
:-" ...


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## Muppet (Apr 21, 2013)

pardus said:


> :-" ...


 

I agree.

F.M.


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## RustyShackleford (Jun 21, 2013)

Pics....They issued us M9s shortly after the original post.  I chose to roll with it due to size and what we do.  The M5 is still set up, more as a resupply bag now but in a format that works for me or anyone that grabs it.

On the outside, chemlights are jammed in there for the hell of it, 2 TKs on the outside, as well as trauma sheers and a benchmade hook.  2 500 ml IVs and start kits that are set up and 2 emergency blankets.  The inside is set up in a kind of ABC format with everything labeled on the outside along with airway adjuncts, etc.


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## policemedic (Jun 21, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> Pics....They issued us M9s shortly after the original post.  I chose to roll with it due to size and what we do.  The M5 is still set up, more as a resupply bag now but in a format that works for me or anyone that grabs it.
> 
> On the outside, chemlights are jammed in there for the hell of it, 2 TKs on the outside, as well as trauma sheers and a benchmade hook.  2 500 ml IVs and start kits that are set up and 2 emergency blankets.  The inside is set up in a kind of ABC format with everything labeled on the outside along with airway adjuncts, etc.


 
Looks like you're well-prepared.  Interesting placement for the chest darts; I see the logic behind it.  Mine are kept with my chest stuff.  Are you carrying nasal trumpets, chest seals or hemostatics?  Can't see them.  I'm also curious about which fluid you're carrying.

I'll tell you, though-it's nice to see people who are trained and ready for the medical piece.  That gets such short thrift in most places it pisses me off greatly.


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## RustyShackleford (Jun 21, 2013)

Several NPAs in the top zipper pouch along with the headlamp and King airway.  Two halo chest seals and a couple packs of combat gauze.  Fluids are 500 LR and 500 NS, 1 each; just what I decided to load for fluids.  A lot of our guys are still big on fluids right out the gate.  I kind of take a general applicability look at it and take what we are required to carry and go from there, but try to keep it applicable to what we do, not what we think we do. 

I'm not the best trained but not the least either.  We're required to ride at least 8 hours a month in addition to other crap, CEs, training, etc.


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## surgicalcric (Jun 21, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> ...Fluids are 500 LR and 500 NS, 1 each; just what I decided to load for fluids.  *A lot of our guys are still big on fluids right out the gate.
> *
> I'm not the best trained but not the least either.  We're required to ride at least 8 hours a month in addition to other crap, CEs, training, etc.



Obviously "a lot" of your guys arent paying attention to the lessons learned from the past nearly 12 years of combat wounded.  With respect to fluid resuscitation in hemorrhagic shock, more is not better.

It is refreshing to see you taking the medical piece so seriously.  Like PM, I have seen far too many operational guys not take it seriously until its them needing the supplies used on them then it cant be taken serious enough.

As for your labeling system, have you given thought to having nametapes embroidered with the category of supplies then sew them down to the pockets?  Or better yet sew loop to the pouch so the tapes can be changed as will.  Just an idea...

Mondo Kudos to ya bro.


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## policemedic (Jun 21, 2013)

surgicalcric said:


> As for your labeling system, have you given thought to having nametapes embroidered with the category of supplies then sew them down to the pockets?  Or better yet sew loop to the pouch so the tapes can be changed as will.  Just an idea...
> 
> Mondo Kudos to ya bro.


 
Exactly how my "comes-in-the-house" bag is done.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 21, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> Several NPAs in the top zipper pouch along with the headlamp and King airway.  Two halo chest seals and a couple packs of combat gauze.  Fluids are 500 LR and 500 NS, 1 each; just what I decided to load for fluids.  A lot of our guys are still big on fluids right out the gate.  I kind of take a general applicability look at it and take what we are required to carry and go from there, but try to keep it applicable to what we do, not what we think we do.
> 
> I'm not the best trained but not the least either.  We're required to ride at least 8 hours a month in addition to other crap, CEs, training, etc.



Are most of your runs urban or rural? If you are normally less than 15-30 mins from a hospital I would cut out the fluids altogether. A lot of time can be wasted trying to stick an IV when the hospital is only minutes away.  I just say this from my experience.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 21, 2013)

Thermal blankies.....I like it!!!!

I laid on the ground nekid  for a long time before.....not fun....



(nothing real world, just training...fyi)


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## RustyShackleford (Jun 22, 2013)

Crip, I think a lot of that stems from these guys riding with local EMS and not getting a lot of additional training outside what we are required to attend every couple of years.  That being said, most of the guys have done some good things over the years, providing med support to LE and civvies alike.  As for the labeling system, I dig your idea.

Cback:  in my old gig our work was roughly 85% urban and 15% rural.  My new job has me at a desk more than I care for, but when I'm out, it varies greatly and the bag is usually in the vehicle because thats where I'm located.  If I'm on foot, it's usually in a PSD role.


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## policemedic (Feb 19, 2015)

Bumping this so as not to create a new thread.

Since we've brought it up in another thread, I've been wondering how our various medicos are packing their aid bags.   This has been on my mind lately because I've had to repack and reorganize my stuff from one bag to a new bag with a different configuration.  I think the new pack is light years better, but it's going to take some noodle power to get it set up perfectly to my liking.  I'll post pics when I get to work.

In any case,  I try to follow the MARCHH mnemonic in packing my bag.  My hypothermia supplies in the bag mostly consist of space blankets because my HPMK is too big to pack and lives in the car.  I'd have someone run for it if it was needed.  Mission drives the gear train, so occasionally I will repack depending on the mission.

Anyone like to share packing lists or how their bag is set up?


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## Ranger Psych (Feb 19, 2015)

Ehh, this is off my jacked brain housing group memory so some stuff might be missing:

I used an earlier model of the LBT Tactical Field care med backpack, looked like this but sans PALS and a couple other bits/bobs:






outer top pouch:
TQ's, ETD's, hemcon dressings, kerlex

outer bottom pouch: 
OPAs, NPAs, more ETD's, kerlex, ace wraps, coban

Clamshell'ed open: 
IVs+ starter kits near the ruckstrap side, meat sewing/stapling kits in one of the lower pouches
BVM, decomp sets (Ascherman + pigsticker of a needle), and ETD/Cric kits on the other side top pouch, 
Bottom pouch had ace wraps, coban, meds in the bottom pouch in hard cases (Pile velcro on the "softer stuff" ie sick call meds, Hook velcro on the "hard stuff" ie pain management/hard antibiotics/IV meds)  
C-collar undone and along one side wedged, chest tube kit along the other side

Against the back as worn: multiple tarp-type emergency blankets and SAM splints stored with a single fold flat against the back

Anything else I needed more of or otherwise "isn't mentioned due to chronic CRS but would be carried" went where there was room and it made sense in the casualty care flow of "get to patient, drop ruck, start working 'off of' to 'into the bag'" as well as taking into account where you'd be in a casualty assessment/priority of injury.

All of this supplemented my worn kit which had rifle/pistol mags, 4x NPA's, 3x TQ's, 4x kerlex 4x ETD, about 20 chemlites of different colors to categorize casualties, casualty cards, gloves, shears, implement of stabbing, spare copenhagen for me or joes if checking the line, etc. Lip light on boom mic + finger light, never cared for minichems in the mouth for a light source (they taste like ass and chew funny if you have one break in your mouth  )

All the kits, specifically cric/suture/chest tube sets, etc were all forceps and associated necessities for doing a procedure wrapped up together and vac sealed in foot wide vacum seal bags so you could pop that and have everything you needed for a job right there with a "clean field" to stage stuff from for a procedure.  Edge of seal pre-nicked w/ offset large tape tabs to be able to grab for opening and a second sealed area with white bandage tape labeled in sharpie of kit name and a small hole on the edge to slide in a mini chem. Pre-planned Night missions I'd pop some mini chems and slide them into the labeled areas on the more "urgent use" kits so if I had a helper they could ID what I was asking for out of my bag in lieu of me having to stop and get it myself.  Always checked for any signature either ambient or under NVG's before stepping off, never had an issue.


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## policemedic (Feb 19, 2015)

Sounds like a well-organized plan.

I'll generally try to use their IFAK/TQ, then the gear on my vest (similar to your packing list, minus a few things like Cope) and then finally the stuff in my aid bag.  That said, if I'm not wearing the big vest i.e. general patrol then everything is worked out of the aid bag dropped near the pt's head.

Were the different Velcro types on the meds for touch ID?


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## Ranger Psych (Feb 19, 2015)

Yep. That, and it made it easy for them to stick together since I'd shift shit around sometimes and have sick call crap just in a ziploc bag of motrin skittles etc.  

I had all my stuff up front and extras of various since while I could count that a patient would have a tq, ETD, Kerlex... and it'd be on their....left side? furthest back pouch, it was still quicker for me to grab it off my stuff. I could reload off their gear since it'd be coming with them to the CCP, or just reload off my truck since I carried enough supplies to reload a full company's worth of RFR and medic aidbags, not counting my 2nd bag I kept on the rig.  

I also organized the meds boxes in a specific pattern and number of velcros on the inside, although I can't even think of how the fuck I did it. Some stuff just was identifiable by size (Cefoxitin or w/e the hell it is, big jar I had to inject saline into then load a syringe), but stuff like narcan, morphine, and some others that we had in preloaded injectors all felt the same in the dark so I used 1 row 2 row 3 row of velcro, with everything inside the boxes velcroed so regardless of how FUCKFUCKFUCKmode someone opened the boxes, it wouldn't turn into a junkie's dream yardsale..


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