# Nutrition to the extreme?



## Gunz (Nov 16, 2016)

Our middle son is 23. He was a professional athlete. Now he works with professional athletes. He's built like Tarzan and living at home temporarily until he gets his own place.

When he isn't working out for hours at a time, he's eating. He makes organic egg whites with organic spinach every morning for breakfast. He eats organic everything. Instant whey protein. Powdered peanut butter. Organic oatmeal. Inca Red Quinoa--whatever the hell that is. He doesn't drink anything but water. Or decaffeinated black tea.

His Mom and I--and even his girlfriend--are just a little concerned because he's so anal about his diet. Recently he's had some outbreaks of hives. I'm like, dude, eat a freaking pizza once a year, show me you're human.

Is it possible to take this too far?


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## Devildoc (Nov 16, 2016)

As long as the macros are balanced, there's no real danger.  Of course, the very-low carb/no carb diets can induce a ketotic event, which is no bueno; but otherwise, if he is hitting the carbs, proteins, and fats in a reasonable way, then he's good to go.  Having said that I like the 90/10 plan:  I eat low-carb and very disciplined 90% of the time, and eat whatever I want the other 10%.  Oh, and the powdered peanut butter?  That stuff is awesome.


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## CDG (Nov 16, 2016)

To the medical professionals on the board, is it possible he's hitting his macros but not taking in the right amount of vitamins and minerals?  I have read about that being possible, particularly with those who train hard in the gym.  You can eat enough PRO/CHO/FAT, but still fall short on overall nutrition needs.


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## Snake (Nov 16, 2016)

My experience and realizations are something like this: Why can't your body stay one particular medicene your whole life. This is because at some point your body rejects it or you need more of it to accomplish the original goal. It's like drug users need even more drugs to attain the same high. As far as I found about my life never stay on the same protein power for too long or even toothpaste. Since at some point your body becomes resistant to the products(or whatever) you use. I'd tell him to vary up his diet. So maybe for his protein powder or oatmeal change up the brand regularly so the body doesn't become accustomed to one specific thing.


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## Snake (Nov 16, 2016)

How does he afford this lol? This has got to cost so much as far as I can tell.


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## Gunz (Nov 16, 2016)

Snake said:


> ...I'd tell him to vary up his diet...



He won't. He don't listen to me, why should he, I'm just a parent.

He eats no potatoes, no bread, no pasta. He will eat a hamburger without a bun or any condiments of any kind as long as it's from an organic cow, i.e., one that's been raised without antibiotics or hormones. He will not eat hotdogs, sausage or bacon. The hotdogs I understand but sweet Italian sausage in my spaghetti sauce...? And bacon? No bacon makes me want to question his patriotism.


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## Gunz (Nov 16, 2016)

Snake said:


> How does he afford this lol? This has got to cost so much as far as I can tell.



Damn right, it costs a lot. I was buying it for a while when he first moved back in. I finally told him I couldn't afford it and if he wants to eat this shit he's got to use some of the money he's been saving up while he stays here rent free.


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## Lefty375 (Nov 16, 2016)

Snake said:


> My experience and realizations are something like this: Why can't your body stay one particular medicene your whole life. This is because at some point your body rejects it or you need more of it to accomplish the original goal. It's like drug users need even more drugs to attain the same high. As far as I found about my life never stay on the same protein power for too long or even toothpaste. Since at some point your body becomes resistant to the products(or whatever) you use. I'd tell him to vary up his diet. So maybe for his protein powder or oatmeal change up the brand regularly so the body doesn't become accustomed to one specific thing.



I'm not sure there is any scientific data to support this at all. AFAIK, your body, doesn't become resistant to protein. Sounds like bro-science to the extreme. Also, I would challenge you to look up the active ingredients for most toothpaste. You might be shocked to learn they are all mostly the same and you have _probably_ just fallen for the companies multi-million dollar marketing campaign. 

You don't _need_ potatoes, pasta or bread. The only thing I would be skeptical of is _organic._ There is a lot of wiggle room for what qualifies as organic. If it's for ethical reasons, that would be another discussion. 

Besides the whole "organic" point, a lot of bodybuilders/athletes I associate with eat the same things. Lean meats, vegetables, some fruits, sweet potatoes or brown rice. Everything else in the grocery store is mostly why the western diet is a recipe for terrible health. It takes me five extra minutes to weigh my food and put the macros in my phone. It's just positioning health over a pack of oreo's or whatever else our fat society eats now. Lastly, I find fresh food tastes a tremendous amount better than processed food. It's interesting that people find something that can sit on a shelf for years, tastes better, than a dish packed with fresh ingredients.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2016)

Eating everything Organic is stupid unless you're rowing it yourself.  Organic eggs are stupid.  Now as far as vitamins are concerned: Broccoli, Kale, sweet potatoes are loaded with micro-nutrients.  But the dude needs to be sane and enjoy some booze and pizza.  

When I'm trying to cut hard I tighten it up, you can see what I've eaten in other threads.  If it's having a crazy effect on his relationships you need to sit him down, as well as his girlfriend.  He can stay pretty lean on a "less clean" diet.  But if he's trying to perform, having a tightened up diet during competition is better because your body adapts and becomes more efficient.

When I got my leanest, and truly I wasn't even that lean I became snappy because I wasn't getting the correct nutrients.  And at a certain point you're just hungry all the time.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 16, 2016)

[Q


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## Snake (Nov 16, 2016)

Lefty375 said:


> I'm not sure there is any scientific data to support this at all. AFAIK, your body, doesn't become resistant to protein. Sounds like bro-science to the extreme. Also, I would challenge you to look up the active ingredients for most toothpaste. You might be shocked to learn they are all mostly the same and you have _probably_ just fallen for the companies multi-million dollar marketing.


Your body at some point will reject a product to where you have to increase the doseage to achieve the same effect. Just like medicene or drugs for that matter. Your body systems are able to get accustomed to repeated things. I am not a bro and have not fallen for million dollar marketing. I am just transferring the clear medical info to what may be practical as far as diet goes...


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## Lefty375 (Nov 16, 2016)

Snake said:


> Your body at some point will reject a product to where you have to increase the doseage to achieve the same effect. Just like medicene or drugs for that matter. Your body systems are able to get accustomed to repeated things. I am not a bro and have not fallen for million dollar marketing. I am just transferring the clear medical info to what may be practical as far as diet goes...



I genuinely would be ecstatic to see evidence that points to the diminishing returns of eating the same type of macronutrient (like protein), repeatedly. For example, study X shows if you eat chicken X times to reach your protein goal per day, over time you will see reduced performance. From all the peer-reviewed literature I have ever read, your body doesn't respond by going "oh this is SuperWhey B22345", and not "SuperHydro Whey X5000" so I will use it more efficiently. 

I would find the studies myself to inform all the bodybuilders and athletes I associate with, but there isn't a whole lot to support your claim.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2016)

When it comes to whey, it's whey.  But, what other supplements is he taking. Because those would be the doses that would shift.  But if you're noticing declining effects, rather than increasing the dosage you can just go stim free for a week or two.

I like to be on a linear diet, do all of my cooking on the weekends and such.  When it comes to macro-nutrients, your body gets more efficient when eating the same stuff over a period of time.  So if he's training for a race or in season he should dial it in with a cheatish meal every two weeks.

But if he's out of season he should be more varietal in what he chooses to cook and also do a free meal/day once a week if he's as active as you say he is.  When body builders are deep into their prep for a show they're at their worst emotionally, that's because they're literally starving.  So if he's around 6% BF, maybe he should eat some more and come up to about 10%, he'll still have abs but he'll enjoy his life and you guys won't feel like crap.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 16, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Our middle son is 23. He was a professional athlete. Now he works with professional athletes. He's built like Tarzan and living at home temporarily until he gets his own place.
> 
> When he isn't working out for hours at a time, he's eating. He makes organic egg whites with organic spinach every morning for breakfast. He eats organic everything. Instant whey protein. Powdered peanut butter. Organic oatmeal. Inca Red Quinoa--whatever the hell that is. He doesn't drink anything but water. Or decaffeinated black tea.
> 
> ...



Slap a plate down in front of him with a 16oz T-bone, baked potato, corn on the cob and a Lone Star beer to wash it down, and explain "MURICA" to that boy.


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## Gunz (Nov 16, 2016)

He's 5% body fat.



Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Slap a plate down if front of him with a 16oz T-bone, baked potato, corn on the cob and with a Lone Star beer to wash it down, and explain "MURICA" to that boy.



Yer makin me hongrey, brofus.

I got another kid, my youngest, who hates baked beans and mashed potatoes. Who doesn't like baked beans and mashed potatoes???!!! Nazis. Maybe.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 16, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> He's 5% body fat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It ain't right...

ummmm white beans/pork with corn bread...I am about to make myself hungry! 

Chicken fried steak with white gravy, mashed potatoes, and a side of cream corn....:-"


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> He's 5% body fat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well there's his problem, existing at 5% takes a lot of work (effects on relationships and work are huge).  He's pretty much at stage body fat %, so he needs to come up to about 8-10% and you should see a positive attitude shift.  Or he could just have a free meal every week, slam some beers on a Saturday.

Here's one of the Body Builders I follow and he talks about how he had to pull his name from the NABBA universe competition:


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## Etype (Nov 17, 2016)

Snake said:


> My experience and realizations are something like this: Why can't your body stay one particular medicene your whole life. This is because at some point your body rejects it or you need more of it to accomplish the original goal. It's like drug users need even more drugs to attain the same high. As far as I found about my life never stay on the same protein power for too long or even toothpaste. Since at some point your body becomes resistant to the products(or whatever) you use. I'd tell him to vary up his diet. So maybe for his protein powder or oatmeal change up the brand regularly so the body doesn't become accustomed to one specific thing.


Your body doesn't become resistant to nutrition, this is asinine.

There are populations in the world that only eat the same few items from cradle to grave.  I'm sure the things the OP mentioned are only a representative sample of what he eats, and not all that he eats.


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## Snake (Nov 17, 2016)

Okay so can anyone explain why the body will become resistant to medicenes or drugs, but not carry this over to foods/beverages? I'm interested in understanding this.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 17, 2016)

Snake said:


> Okay so can anyone explain why the body will become resistant to medicenes or drugs, but not carry this over to foods/beverages? I'm interested in understanding this.



Your body doesn't become resistant to medicine, the bacteria do. This is called evolution. You can build a tolerance(different than a resistance) to certain drugs(caffeine is a great example) as your body becomes more and more efficient at processing them. 

Worsening physiologic condition may make taking more medicine necessary. 

I don't become resistant to the proteins and amino acids in food. Cells need nutrients to survive, and grow.


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## Etype (Nov 18, 2016)

Snake said:


> Okay so can anyone explain why the body will become resistant to medicenes or drugs, but not carry this over to foods/beverages? I'm interested in understanding this.


And when your body becomes tolerant to alcohol, nicotine, opioids, etc, this is an adaptation to a negative stimulus. Your body becomes more efficient at metabolising the poison.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 18, 2016)

Snake said:


> Okay so can anyone explain why the body will become resistant to medecines or drugs, but not carry this over to foods/beverages? I'm interested in understanding this.




This is a nutrition and fitness thread, so this topic is a little off center, but a good topic none the less. There are a couple of reasons that some drugs seem to stop working, both are different clinical settings. They are antibiotics, and pain/ anxiety medications. First the antibiotics.

When you have a bacterial infection, URI's, colds and sore throats, is where this happens the most. Your doc gives you a prescription  for antibiotics in an attempt to help you feel better. Both the doc and a sticker on the bottle say take the meds until they are all gone. So the patient starts the antibiotics. After a few days, they feel a lot better. With half the bottle still left, the patient decides to stop taking them, to have some for the next "cold". Later on, you catch another cold, and you grab the pill bottle and start the meds again, saving a trip to the doc's office; pretty smart. You don't get better, in fact, this time it's a little worse. What the patient did was to produce an antibiotic resistant organism because not all of the bacteria were killed. The little bacteria have the ability, given enough time, to build a resistance to the antibiotic. This happens time and time again with the result of a growing number of bacterial infections that are not treatable with the usual antibiotics. The drug industry works to come up with yet more powerful antibiotics and after a while, those drugs start to lose their ability to fight infections. To keep this short, the docs sometimes write for antibiotics that may not be needed. Patients don't follow directions, and we end up with some super bugs out there that kill people. So much for reason number one, on to reason number two.

Pain meds, and anti-anxiety meds. Taken as directed, do not produce addiction but are able to produce  dependency, but both addiction and dependency are out there. During my Residency, we were required to do cases using different narcotics and other anesthetic agents. One of the narcotics that we used, and no I'm not going to say what it was, had a tendency to become less effective over time. There is a name for that, and it is called :"Tachyphylaxis". I had to give higher, and higher doses to get the same clinical results, I never used that again after Residency. That narcotic's use was discontinued in surgery and is one of the drugs seldom seen anymore. Back to addiction and dependency, and since the road is the same for both class of drugs, we'll stay with pain meds. Dependency first

Drug dependency  with pain meds means that if you suddenly stop the pain pills, the pain returns, and physical withdrawal symptoms will be felt. There are people with chronic pain who take pain medicine as directed. Their pain is more tolerable, and their quality of life is better. I had a 70-year-old patient who took one tablet of Vicoden twice for pain every day. Like clock work her dosage stayed the same for over ten years. The patient was not addicted but was dependent on the narcotic. It differs from drug addiction.

Drug addiction is psychological as much as it is physical. As the pain meds enter receptor sites in the brain, it also produces a euphoria which feels pretty damned good. The feel good is the problem, and the first several highs some get eventually becomes a life's goal. The thing of it is,  the great first highs will never be felt again. There are only so many receptor sites for endorphins and/or narcotics. The longer the narcotics are taken, the more likely it is that a Tachyphylaxis begins. After a while, the addict needs to take the narcotics just to feel normal. Without the narcotics they become physically ill, and yet they still chase those first great highs, but they will never find them. Eventually, if unchecked, the addict will take anything that makes them feel good and they are then polysubstance abusers. The side effects of lowered awareness and respiratory depression become a huge problem. Many die from drug overdose, pneumonia, liver failure, and heart failure. To look back through the history of drug addicts, it is not so much the drugs that caused the addiction, but the addict's behavior that became totally drug-centered.

I hope I've been able to shed some light on why some drugs don't work as well after a while. All things in moderation, and follow directions.


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## DC (Nov 25, 2016)

I eat a relatively strict Paleo diet. Works for me. At my age processed crap kills me. Dairy and grain too. Balanceed diet is key in whatever program is chosen along with moderation.


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## nobodythank you (Dec 1, 2016)

Lefty375 said:


> It takes me five extra minutes to weigh my food and put the macros in my phone. It's just positioning health over a pack of oreo's or whatever else our fat society eats now. Lastly, I find fresh food tastes a tremendous amount better than processed food. It's interesting that people find something that can sit on a shelf for years, tastes better, than a dish packed with fresh ingredients.


This. Weighing food and logging it can become second nature with enough practice. It also allows you to better understand the food you are ingesting. As for the freshness aspect, I just recently discovered this (last 5 years or so) amazing ability. For example, I used to love eating the Sam's Choice burgers that were loaded with bacon and cheese on top of Nature's Own Butterbread Buns. It was delicious. Until I discovered how to make my own burgers and use fresh baked Publix French Bread Buns. Holy crap what a difference. Not only can I now distinguish between fresh and processed foods, I can taste the different ingredients I put in the homemade burgers (smoke, garlic, bacon, Adobo, ect..), but the fresh bread adds a unique and unforgettable flavor profile.

Back to the OP, is your son trying for a specific goal? Have you asked him if this is how he wants to eat long term? If you haven't asked him, I think it might give you a clue as to what his goals or intentions are for eating and training the way he does. Good luck!


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## SpongeBob*24 (Dec 1, 2016)

I'd tell him he only gets one shot at his 20's...watching what you eat seems like a bad way to spend it!


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## Unknown Player (Aug 22, 2018)

Sir, if I may offer you this - perhaps you should approach this issue with your son by trying to follow some of his nutritional habits. Perhaps if you partake in eating organic, Non-GMO, grass-fed everything he'll enjoy a slice of pizza with you. As far as that hives problem goes I'd see a doctor. 

I gained 15 pounds over the course of a few months and decided to start tracking what I ate. Used MyFitnessPal and being able to see the data showed me what I need to be looking into getting more or less of to be healthier. Perhaps your son would value it in the same way.

Otherwise, I'm sure a qualified individual can present a better answer than myself sir. Hope it works out for you.


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## amlove21 (Aug 22, 2018)

Unknown Player said:


> Sir, if I may offer you this - perhaps you should approach this issue with your son by trying to follow some of his nutritional habits. Perhaps if you partake in eating organic, Non-GMO, grass-fed everything he'll enjoy a slice of pizza with you. As far as that hives problem goes I'd see a doctor.
> 
> I gained 15 pounds over the course of a few months and decided to start tracking what I ate. Used MyFitnessPal and being able to see the data showed me what I need to be looking into getting more or less of to be healthier. Perhaps your son would value it in the same way.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm sure a qualified individual can present a better answer than myself sir. Hope it works out for you.


So, this thread hasn't been replied to in 628 days, 20 hours and about 40 minutes. 

No drama, definitely not a record post, but the OP has probably figured out that diet issue since. 

Onward.


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