# Question about Finland's SOF



## Boondocksaint375 (Jul 18, 2007)

Since we now have a member from Finland, I was wondering if you would enlighten me as to what types of SOF units you guys have.  The only one I am really familiar with is the Utti Jaeger Regiment.http://shadowspear.com/uttijaegerregiment.htm


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes Utti is the place for the Army Airborne guys. They are an attachment unit, and work with the normal jaegers, for example securing vital enemy personnel , tactically important locations etc. Also enemy’s fighting enemy SOF is their job. These guys are divided in to 2 sections, Airborne and Long range reconnance.

Army also has 1 recon unit (18 men) per company, who are responsible for gathering intel for friendly troops and slowing enemy`s movement. These guys are divided in 2 section, armoured and non-armoured. Armoured recon uses “help” in their movement, where non-armoured moves strictly by foot far behind enemy lines (usually some 20-50 km). These are also called as “Sissi” in Finnish, and hold great pride in their guerrilla warfare tactics. These recon team members are ranked sergeant or higher. One team is formed by 6 men; team leader (2nd LT or higher), co-leader(SGT), sniper pair and 2 other soldiers. 

Then the Navy. It’s basically the same as the Army, but the difference is the tip of the spear. Where the army has Airborne troops, Navy has Frogmen, trained in shoreline garrison of Upinniemi, some 40(?) km west of Helsinki. They also are divided in 2 sections, combat divers and Utility(for lack of a better word) divers. “Utility” divers responsibility is setting up and clearing mines, sabotage etc., when combat divers are strictly a “fighting force”. Under them, there is also these same recon teams.

Also the Finnish Border guard trains their own forces, just called border jaegers. Police forces have their own team, called Karhu-ryhmä (Bear squad).

Also I have to make a statement, though probably only Utti Reg. And Frogmen come anywhere near the International SOF (SOCOM,SAS,GROM), every soldier in the army are highly trained in guerrilla warfare, camouflage and marksmanship, which is purely based in the Finnish landscape and the lack of numbers of our soldiers.

So there some info about Finnish SOF. If there is more info you guys want, I would be more than glad to assist you. BTW I also have pics and videos from exercises etc. so if anybody want to see them, just let me know. I post a couple of them here.

Yes and sorry for bad English.

And BTW, I should not be telling this by army`s laws, but for your eyes only :)


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## Ravage (Jul 18, 2007)

A list from Wikipedia - FDF Elite units:

-Erillinen Pataljoona 4 (Continuation War)
-Karhu Ryhmä (Bear Squad)
-Sissikomppaniat
-Utti Jaeger Regiment
-Taistelusukeltajat ("Combat divers")

Got some pics, but not sure if they are FDF:


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## Boondocksaint375 (Jul 18, 2007)

Thanks for the info,  you cleared up a lot of my questions.


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## Ravage (Jul 18, 2007)

Great post Fionlannach ! Thanks for the infos.
Stay safe.

EDIT:

from the oficial Jaeger webpage:



> New NH90 helicopters will be received in Utti in early 2006. 20 pieces of the new NH90 helicopters will be operationally ready by the beginning of next decade. The Utti Army Aviation base offers outstanding facilities for the new helicopters. Both the Utti garrison and the training areas nearby form an optimal and cost efficient combination for the helicopter training system. *The main focus in the future will be put into the combined operations with helicopters and army special forces.*



ROCK ON !


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

*the pics*

here some


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## Gypsy (Jul 18, 2007)

Fionlannach said:


> Yes and sorry for bad English.
> 
> And BTW, I should not be telling this by army`s laws, but for your eyes only



I think your English is very good, better than some natives.  ;)

You do realize anyone who is a member here can read this, right?


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

Gypsy said:


> I think your English is very good, better than some natives.  ;)



thanks


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Jul 18, 2007)

I did some training back in 1998 near Klaipeda on the western coast of Lithuania with some Finnish troops.  Good bunch of guys.


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

SgtUSMC8541 said:


> I did some training back in 1998 near Klaipeda on the western coast of Lithuania with some Finnish troops.  Good bunch of guys.



So what are thoughts, did they know their stuff ?


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Jul 18, 2007)

They were squared away.  Asked good questions in the class we were teaching in relation to US vs their doctrine.  Bit more relaxed than most small US Marine units, but I have found that to be true of most euro troops.


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

Ravage said:


> A list from Wikipedia - FDF Elite units:
> 
> -Erillinen Pataljoona 4 (Continuation War)
> -Karhu Ryhmä (Bear Squad)
> ...




Yes, the first one on that wiki list is an ww2 era unit.

I see US weaponry, so they can`t be... but here is some of our guys...


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## Boondocksaint375 (Jul 18, 2007)

Would this be them?

[sm]93[/sm]


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## Mikko1208 (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes, these guys are from Utti. Watching the camo those guys have, I guess this is from mid 90`s. Oh and I found a clip from youtube, which has some other "elite force"...


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## ReconFOSgt (Sep 26, 2008)

> Yes Utti is the place for the Army Airborne guys. They are an attachment unit, and work with the normal jaegers, for example securing vital enemy personnel , tactically important locations etc. Also enemy’s fighting enemy SOF is their job. These guys are divided in to 2 sections, Airborne and Long range reconnance.



Airborne Jaeger Company 
Trains parajägers, concrpts, but is only for volunteers and has an tight entry exam. 
They are trained the basic skills of an SOF operator.

Special Jaeger Company
Consists of specialjägers, enlisted men with advanced training as SOF operator. 
They are mostly but not all former parajägers, even tighter entry exam is open to all services in FDF.

Utti is also the center of Military police training that is given in all arms of FDF.
Military police specialize in protecting strategic personnel/installations and destroying enemy SOF.




> Army also has 1 recon unit (18 men) per company, who are responsible for gathering intel for friendly troops and slowing enemy`s movement. These guys are divided in 2 section, armoured and non-armoured. Armoured recon uses “help” in their movement, where non-armoured moves strictly by foot far behind enemy lines (usually some 20-50 km). These are also called as “Sissi” in Finnish, and hold great pride in their guerrilla warfare tactics. These recon team members are ranked sergeant or higher. One team is formed by 6 men; team leader (2nd LT or higher), co-leader(SGT), sniper pair and 2 other soldiers.



You are mixing batallion level recon platoons with brigade level recon companies, the latter are the ones operating in that debth. 

There are also recon AND sissi companys. 

Recon is more of a LRRP unit, mainly gathering intel and controlling long range artillery. 
They operate in small squads. 

Sissi troops have a more active role in engaging enemy in guerilla tactics.
They usually operate in platoon to batallion size.

They are conscripts and dont have an entry exam but are chosen based on their skills on civilian life and abilities shown during basic training.





> Then the Navy. It’s basically the same as the Army, but the difference is the tip of the spear. Where the army has Airborne troops, Navy has Frogmen, trained in shoreline garrison of Upinniemi, some 40(?) km west of Helsinki. They also are divided in 2 sections, combat divers and Utility(for lack of a better word) divers. “Utility” divers responsibility is setting up and clearing mines, sabotage etc., when combat divers are strictly a “fighting force”. Under them, there is also these same recon teams.



Combat divers are trained in the same division as in Utti Jäger Regiment.

Concripts are volunteer that have to pass an tight exam to get on the course.
They are trained the basic skills of SOF. 

After concript service they can apply to enlist for the Navy SOG with advanced SOF skills.

Navy also trains Coastal jägers in "force recon" role for the maritime enviroment.



> Also the Finnish Border guard trains their own forces, just called border jaegers.



Border Guard belongs under the ministry of interior, like Karhu-ryhmä (Bear squad), but during war time functions as part of FDF. 

They train Borderjägers, concripts, that are all volunteers, in Sissi and LRRP role without entry exams but with strict qualifications.

They also train Special borderjägers, also concripts but with a tight entry exam, trained in basic SOF skills.

Border Guard has also platoons of enlisted Special borderjägers with advanced SOF training.





> Police forces have their own team, called Karhu-ryhmä (Bear squad).



Karhu specializes in anti terrorist and hostage operations but is also to my knowledge an allround SOF.



> Also I have to make a statement, though probably only Utti Reg. And Frogmen come anywhere near the International SOF (SOCOM,SAS,GROM), every soldier in the army are highly trained in guerrilla warfare, camouflage and marksmanship, which is purely based in the Finnish landscape and the lack of numbers of our soldiers.



*The enlisted parts of Special jägers, Combat divers, Special border jägers and Karhu are the active operators of Finland SOF.* Im not going to guess "whos best", they cross train and share experiences between each other and international partners. I also wouldnt underestimate the concript/reserve parts of the Finnish SOF family, they are trained based on experiences of these units. But i wouldnt say every soldier in the entire army is highly trained in guerilla warfare, they are trained the basics. I agree that the marksmanship in the army is generally of good level.







> And BTW, I should not be telling this by army`s laws, but for your eyes only



You really didnt say anything not public knowledge.:)


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## Loki (Jan 27, 2012)

All of the weapons, equipment and mission(s) MTOE are restricted to the "Special Jaeger" regiment. Some of the gear / weapons are issued to a few elite units of the Navy and some with other groups including the "Karhu". The Helos, gear and missions demo point to only one unit and that is the "Special Jaegers" or Yeager (_my favorite name_) unit at Utti. Some of the other units have a MOUT tasking and a Urban warfare mission with explosive breachers assigned however the military CT / HR role belong to the Special Jaegers (_to the best of my knowledge_). Although it should be stated that the Karhu hold the primary HRT role and they are an arm of the National Police. My information relative to them is pre-2003. They are stationed in Helsinki. We worked with them years a ago as well on contract. We can't post any of those pics or of their Swimmers as they specifically requested us not to do so. These are pictures were at public event in Finland at the "Special Yeagers". This is a open house when we were in the area working with other folks. May 2008 These personnel are considered the "Special Forces" of Finland. I was told that they must volunteer for a three year commitment to serve professionally with this group. We associated with serving members currently. We have also worked with them in the past as well. They are Airborne qualified and on jump status and receive special training far beyond that of the normal conscript... similar in breakdown, mission and content to the US Army Rangers. They are stationed at Utti in Finland.

 http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/fi/

Here's an article as well I wrote sometime ago relative to this topic in general.  We continue to maintain a relationship with many of the units. Great guys one and all, very professional as well as a hellva lot of fun. many good times over the years.      
http://www.imtt.net/articles/article3.html


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## Loki (Jan 27, 2012)

This was / is their new chopper purchased by Finland and finally received after a 3 year delay. These pics were taken in Finland on May 15th 2008. These aircraft at the time were restricted to Utti Special Yeager reg but it is my understanding they have been used now country wide. There has also been some problems with additional purchases and other logistical matters concerning these birds. These were taken while we were there on another project. 

NH-90
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHIndustries_NH90
http://www.shephardmedia.com/news/rotorhub/finnish-nh90-helicopters-demonstrate-ope/
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...the_Finnish_NH90_procurement_of_1998-2008.pdf


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## Loki (Jan 28, 2012)

As of last report (2011) they were using Israeli Tactics and Techniques with regard to small arms and basic warfare raid MOUT methods. They are called "Special Forces" however they are more focused on Urban warfare, CT role and UW. Mainly DA troops with other assorted tasking. Very similar to and equipped and trained most closely to US Rangers. I'm unaware of their blue water capabilities or a skill-set for this at all. I know they possess kayaks and a brown water capability. The Aqua commandos are more like our NAVSPECWAR folks. They possess a very reduced and dated inventory of shoulder fired surface to air missiles. This is common knowledge and open source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Jaegers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utti_Jaeger_Regiment
https://docs.google.com/viewer?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.tekes.fi/fi/gateway/PTARGS_0_201_403_994_2095_43/http%3B/tekes-ali1%3B7087/publishedcontent/publish/programmes/turvallisuus/documents/seminaariaineistot/2011/u_s__finland_def__and_sec__ind__days/valtonen_fi_usa_industry_2011.pdf


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## CDG (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm not seeing any of the pictures you posted.  Just picture-sized white boxes with the red "x" in the top left corner.


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## reed11b (Jan 28, 2012)

CDG said:


> I'm not seeing any of the pictures you posted. Just picture-sized white boxes with the red "x" in the top left corner.


I see them.
Reed


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## SkrewzLoose (Jan 28, 2012)

CDG said:


> I'm not seeing any of the pictures you posted. Just picture-sized white boxes with the red "x" in the top left corner.


 
I see them too!  Hater...


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## OldSchoolSissivanska (Apr 29, 2016)

When talking about FDF "Special Forces" we need to be careful as things have changed dramatically from 80s to how they are today. The changes are also quite asymmetrical... like the forces we are talking about.

I served in 1989-1992 as a LRRP/LRP Team Leader (also trained later to Sr. Battalion Recon Officer duties on a separate course) and also served as "a Summer LT" (FDF slang for a prospect) before self-initiated Honorable Discharge as a protest because we weren't sent to the Gulf with the rest of the Coalition. I was not the only one BTW... Interestingly FDF troops were sent to Afghanistan this time around -- so they learned a lesson from us. "Use us or lose us."

When I was in the term "Special Forces" was still a BIG no-no. Why? Simple -- it would have been a breach of the 1948 Paris Treaty with Soviet Union which dictated that Finland was not allowed to have "special type infantry used only in aggression, but serves no purpose in defense" (they meant really Sissi troops like 'Detachment Torni' / ERPs / etc., but later it was defined as SOF). However FDF never stopped Sissi-training, but did not even use that moniker (that has been around since 1500s BTW and since late 1700s it has meant what it means today) until in the 60s when they grew enough balls to openly call out Sissi-training with its real name. However... you were NOT to EVER say you were "Special" anything! Sissi was OK and that was it. Period.

That said my commander in RUK 3K / SissiK wore US Army Ranger tab on his FINNISH uniform with a special permission (he was a US Ranger School grad from the 70s and a damn fine soldier!). His comparison between us and US Rangers was "the 60-some day Ranger School is more muscle strength oriented and heavy on physical toughness, but we will go far beyond in mental toughness during the next 105-days"... The reason is simple: you will start permanently breaking bodies if you keep up the Ranger School momentum for 105 days. But I can tell you that you can make the sleep deprivation + mighty fine amount of physical stress going a while... It was the best time of my life and also the most terrible at the same time = hard to describe in words.

One of the visiting DIs on my course also wore SEAL trident on his Finnish Navy uniform with the same exception granted for them as my commander's Ranger tab (i.e. he was a Finnish Combat Diver who had passed the BUD/S -- yes, and therefore a fully qual'd SEAL). The LT answered when asked what if FDF HQ would have not allowed the trident on the uniform: "You think anyone in the HQ would be able to come and take this off my chest?" The answer is ... November-Oscar.

We also had "consultants" from IDF (for KM and Israeli instinct shooting training), we trained together with US forces and taught Arctic Warfare in return of wealth of information to our direction (I am not ID'ing the units involved, but this was well over 10 years before the now openly published co-ops with US Marines and US Army Special Forces and FDF in Finland), we trained FFL 2eme REP forces in Arctic Warfare (tough bunch of mothers right there BTW!), we had "sanitized" satellite pics at our disposal at times that were of high resolution (so def not Soviet... so you do the math), and so on and so on.

Our training was still at the time every-now-and-then-and-there-and-where "hinted" / speculated to be that of "a SOF" in the outside of the inner circle -- and a bit leaked when one of the main duties for us was published (on FDF site) "to be hunting down and neutralizing enemy Special Forces". Now replace SF with Spetsnaz in that sentence for more accurate job description... Logical hint: you do not send a bunch of regulars / conscripts to hunt down that caliber of an enemy force... So that was either a calculated "message" to the Soviets or a simple mistake. Who knows, who cares.

But like said I almost never spoke of my service in detail and everyone, including my family, basically just knew that I had been "a Sissi in the service" and that was it. Most Finns -- even -- have no idea what some of the end times of Cold War era Sissi troops (and now a distinction = not the NCO and lower ranks, but the CO level personnel) get to do training-wise.

As a quick checklist -- I received Sniper (but not designated / advanced sniper training -- we did not hand load, etc.), Advanced Small Arms (lot of pistol and rifle; some shotgun work), Canine Ops (both as a handler and as a defender), Escape & Evasion, Land Infiltration, Shallow Water Infiltration, POW/Escape, Demolitions (breach and demolish), Krav Maga, FIBUA, Forward Observer (to direct arty on large stationary target; for hitting convoys with big tubes we had specifically trained Artillery Specialists, etc.), Advanced Comms (long/short wave, Morse, etc.), Medical (Combat Medic Lvl III; IV is a field surgeon), Anti-Tank (both man-portable and mines), Tracking / Stalking, Trapping, Summer / Winter Survival from shelters to nutrition, NBC, Combat Skiing (I was on a Winter course), Prisoner Capture, Advanced Observation / Reaction, Raiding (e.g. Comm centers, supply dumps, etc.), Ambush with and without demos, "sleeping" tank / armored vehicle and general sabotage, Soviet General Doctrines and Special Unit Doctrines (we had bunch of their literature and some hilarious videos of them, too, and I complained that they make Spetsnaz look like Circus Moscow with back-flips while wielding RPK / jumping on guard's shoulders from full run / snapping necks with thighs, etc. and some of our guys might not take them seriously enough after seeing that nonsense, which is actually really bad!), and bunch of academic crap on top of all this along the lines of Leadership, Tactics & Strategy, etc. etc.

So yup, you could have called us what whatever moniker pops into mind, but that is a quick list off the top of my head after over 20 years. Then again to us 'Sissi' was a much more revered title than 'Special Forces'. The first Finnish Sissi Leader was Pekka Antinpoika Vesainen (1540-1627) who raided the tar out of Russians during the Long Wrath in the late 1500s -- he pretty much went with his men from village to village to town to monastery and burned them down / killing everyone in sight. It was a bit different times back then, but defines the mentality of a Sissi force when you end up at odds with it...

The old doctrine was based on us, the Sissi Officers, to be Asymmetrical Warfare trained and then put together / train our teams in a case of war. Being "nolla kiireysluokan joukko" (Zero Urgency Class Troops; where 1 is really urgent, 0 is "pre-emptive") it means that we'd have been called in arms quietly months before the start of the hostilities to start forming / training our teams with which we'd dig in to wilderness of the border region. If / when war would start, we'd wait the Soviet/Russian spearhead and main force to pass us... giving us free land infiltration to the six o'clock and then we'd go to work as totally independent units from the centralized command and with predetermined AOs...

With literally thousands of caches from Gulf of Finland to the Ice Sea containing ammo, explosives, medical supplies, etc. etc. and pretty damn effective life-of-the-land skills, we'd have been able to wage war without centralized command for quite a while and that as a HIGHLY TRAINED insurgency force of thousands of men.

So that's about it for now, but I am able and willing to talk more shop and answer questions.

As an end note couple of clarifications: 

The Bear Unit is a police unit and NOT under Ministry of Defense / FDF (they are a crack SWAT team, that's it). Also Border Jaegers are NOT under Ministry of Defense, but Ministry of Interior. So therefore they should not be listed under FDF as such -- certainly Border Jaegers operate along FDF (with the Ministry of Interior's blessing and do get their CO training in RUK SissiK; and yes, they are generally a really good bunch of guys) and Bear Unit CANNOT operate under FDF command at all -- by the law that is. On the contrary when we were out and about helping Finnish Police in couple of lost folks in the woods cases, we had to be under their command (infuriating as shite BTW).

Also as a side note... I left FIN 1998 for the US and I am a naturalized US Citizen -- just like CPT Lauri Allan Torni aka US Army Special Forces MAJ Larry A. Thorne, KIA Vietnam / over Laos in helicopter crash during OP Shining Brass, buried in Arlington (unarguably my unit's doctrinal grandfather).


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