# Tank Live Fire Accident at Ft Bliss



## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

So this is bad.  Very fucking bad.

Army investigating how M1 Abrams accidentally fired on another tank at Fort Bliss, injuring a soldier

Ft Bliss just held their Change of Command on Thursday too.


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## AWP (Jul 25, 2020)

And with that, a couple of careers were ended.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> And with that, a couple of careers were ended.



Yes, but that gunner deserves at least a commanders coin for actually hitting a moving target


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## amlove21 (Jul 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> And with that, a couple of careers were ended.


Never hate on you; you're right. Someone is going to need to answer for this one. 

Tragic.


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## amlove21 (Jul 25, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Yes, but that gunner deserves at least a commanders coin for actually hitting a moving target


Reminds me of "Leadership and Training for the Fight". 

The author- Paul Howe- describes an event where one of the teams lost SA of where the other teams were- and fired on them, from one roof to another. Luckily, no one was hurt. 

However, the main debrief point? It was a 200m or under shot (I believe, I didn't google), and MSG Howe was mad because although the target was a friendly, there was no reason the shooter should have missed that shot.


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## AWP (Jul 25, 2020)

Imagine being the guy(s) in CAG who missed a sub 200m shot.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 25, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Reminds me of "Leadership and Training for the Fight".
> 
> The author- Paul Howe- describes an event where one of the teams lost SA of where the other teams were- and fired on them, from one roof to another. Luckily, no one was hurt.
> 
> However, the main debrief point? It was a 200m or under shot (I believe, I didn't google), and MSG Howe was mad because although the target was a friendly, there was no reason the shooter should have missed that shot.



We had a blue on blue in training. Part of why we couldn't get Ranger (Indoctrination Program) candidates as details for Opfor.  CSM Birch lost his absolute shit not just because someone got shot, but the casualty got pegged in the groin.

Doing CQM.

From like 3 Meters.

And it was a TL that did it, after having put his BFA back on the first time it came off from a live round...  I have no small faith in that RASP a 2nd time being a TL+ requirement for promotion/posting was fueled by the fact that when someone otherwise performed just well enough to not RFS them, but they were a turd otherwise... the answer was at one point to hope that Ranger school weeded them out. Unfortunately, shitbags graduate Ranger school every class, and then you just sent a shitbag to school that lucked out, got their tab, and now are a candidate for leadership positions.

RASP a second time helps let Regiment weed out those fucksticks.

That TL was a direct product of that thought of using RS as a choke point.

But yeah, CSM Birch was fucking pissed because of the stupidity, AND that we didn't just have a body bag in lieu of a casualty. Pointed directly at not training to standard from a NCO leading...


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## Kraut783 (Jul 25, 2020)

Thank God they were using multi-purpose training rounds.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

Here's more details: U.S. Army Abrams accidentally fired on another tank during training exercise

I obviously read a bunch of details on the army wtf moments page.  Pictures confirm that: round hit the CITV and then shrapnel went in through the open hatches onto the loader and vc.


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## n Awe of Y'all (Jul 28, 2020)

Dammit man


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## Blizzard (Jul 29, 2020)

When I read the headline and the post, prior to reading the article, I expected _much_ worse. I was actually a bit relieved after reading the article.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 29, 2020)

This is terrible.  Although I can see how something like this could happen, this kind of thing goes on too often in the modern Army.

Many years ago, some of my former Soldiers were training up at Fort Drum when a misfired artillery round landed near a group waiting for chow. Several were wounded, including one who later lost a leg, and one NCO, SSG Hall, was killed. Others I didn't know were also killed/wounded.

When I was supporting a big Warfighter exercise out at Fort Hood, some artillerymen got turned around and were dropping shells on a guys ranch. He had to call 911 to get them to stop. 

And that doesn't count the numerous POV, aircraft, and military vehicle accidents that happen with frightening regularity.


Ours is an inherently dangerous profession.


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## J. (Jul 29, 2020)

Most of you know who I am and what I do. If this tank crew(the firing crew) actually were doing their jobs correctly, this would never have happened. I’m more than willing to explain how a fire command works to anyone here and how many steps it take to fire a main gun round. This is disgusting and I look forward to watching careers get burned over it. This was 100% preventable.

The following images are UNCLASSIFIED.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

J. said:


> Most of you know who I am and what I do. If this tank crew(the firing crew) actually were doing their jobs correctly, this would never have happened. I’m more than willing to explain how a fire command works to anyone here and how many steps it take to fire a main gun round. This is disgusting and I look forward to watching careers get burned over it. This was 100% preventable.
> 
> The following images are UNCLASSIFIED.
> View attachment 35041View attachment 35042View attachment 35043




So I know how this happened. There were a lot of failures that day. I also know which track was firing. To make it brief and not providing too many details: 

The tower lost comms with the track down range, declared the range "clear", and authorized the track in the chute to proceed to the BP. 

A lot of failures that day, the RSO and OIC are both getting fried.


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## AWP (Jul 30, 2020)

The FLARNG had an incident in the 80's I believe with artillery. They had familes, corporate folks,senior officers, etc. watching a live fire display that included artillery.. The rounds dropped about 200-300m from the bleachers.

The next OCS class was heavily recruited by the batteries involved.


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## Devildoc (Jul 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This is terrible.  Although I can see how something like this could happen, this kind of thing goes on too often in the modern Army.
> 
> Many years ago, some of my former Soldiers were training up at Fort Drum when a misfired artillery round landed near a group waiting for chow. Several were wounded, including one who later lost a leg, and one NCO, SSG Hall, was killed. Others I didn't know were also killed/wounded.
> 
> ...



If you are not familiar with Camp Lejeune, it has a 2-lane highway running right through it.  I understand it is permanently closed now (real shame, it cut off an hour for people travelling north-south).  Used to be open to the public, and they would shut it down from time to time for exercises.  Sometimes, they forgot to shut it down, and sometimes civilians and Uncle Sam danced on 172.


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## J. (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So I know how this happened. There were a lot of failures that day. I also know which track was firing. To make it brief and not providing too many details:
> 
> The tower lost comms with the track down range, declared the range "clear", and authorized the track in the chute to proceed to the BP.
> 
> A lot of failures that day, the RSO and OIC are both getting fried.



Still not an excuse for not being able to recognize an Abrams through thermals. AFVID is a requirement for a reason, and the fact the gunner and the TC both looked at it and decided to fire is insane. 

I agree with you on the RSO/OIC. I also foresee their MG being investigated to see if they’re “passing” everyone on TCGST.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

J. said:


> Still not an excuse for not being able to recognize an Abrams through thermals. AFVID is a requirement for a reason, and the fact the gunner and the TC both looked at it and decided to fire is insane.
> 
> I agree with you on the RSO/OIC. I also foresee their MG being investigated to see if they’re “passing” everyone on TCGST.



Not saying they have any excuses.  My old wingman and I were talking about it last week, the amount of training we did when we were at Bliss for Gunnery was intensive.  I just know how it happened.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If you are not familiar with Camp Lejeune, it has a 2-lane highway running right through it.  I understand it is permanently closed now (real shame, it cut off an hour for people travelling north-south).  Used to be open to the public, and they would shut it down from time to time for exercises.  Sometimes, they forgot to shut it down, and sometimes civilians and Uncle Sam danced on 172.



Coolege Left on Benning has the same, although it's just a road. Gotta have multiple road guards set up to be able to do that range with the 240's and heavier. Ends up being a company level range with everyone belt fed playing, since it takes about a platoon size detail to support it.


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