# Northern Iraq & the IS.



## CQB (Aug 10, 2014)

The besieged Yazidis and Christians of Iraq feel now that this is their last stand. The world must make sure that, rather, it is the beginning of the end for the Islamic State.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...zidis_christians_islamic_state_iraq_caliphate


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## RackMaster (Aug 10, 2014)

Agreed.   I wish there was more sheep paying attention to this tragedy instead of the plight of the poor Hamas fucks...


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## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

Good article. Obama's made it clear he's not going to send ground troops. If airstrikes aren't enough who'll jump in to save these people? I don't see anybody in Europe getting off their ditty boxes to intervene and other than Iran who else in the Middle East is willing to fight against an Islamic Jihad on behalf of Yazidis, Christians and Kurds?

This is gonna get a lot worse.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 10, 2014)

I've been watching this closely.  This is the first time in a very long time I have felt frightened about what could end up happening over there.  Those f'ers are beyond psychotic; the god-damn Taliban have gone so far as to distance themselves from them.


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## Chopstick (Aug 10, 2014)

Everybody just calm down.  Senator Fauxcahontas, er I mean Elizabeth Warren has a handle on this.   From the Boston Herald:



> “It’s a complicated situation right now in Iraq and the president has taken very targeted actions to provide humanitarian relief that the Iraqi government requested, and to protect American citizens,” Warren told reporters. “But like the president I believe that any solution in Iraq is going to be a negotiated solution, not a military solution. We do not want to be pulled into another war in Iraq.”


http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...ot_want_to_be_pulled_into_another_war_in_iraq

I think the Senator should go tomorrow and sit down and begin these negotiations.  Why wait? What could possibly go wrong?


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## Red-Dot (Aug 10, 2014)

Give me about 40 good JTAC's and a non-stop supply of B -52's and B-1's.


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## Brill (Aug 10, 2014)

What happens when a water ballon is squeezed? I doubt if our foreign policy "leaders" are willing to expand the force necessary to deal with "the state" on multiple fronts with overt and covert measures.  Direct action is icky...especially with mid-terms coming in the fall.


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## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

Chopstick said:


> Everybody just calm down.  Senator Fauxcahontas, er I mean Elizabeth Warren has a handle on this....I think the Senator should go tomorrow and sit down and begin these negotiations.  Why wait? What could possibly go wrong?


 
They would try to behead her but they wouldn't be able to find anything to behead.


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## Brill (Aug 10, 2014)

Fundraising is hard work. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/08/09/obama-vacation-marthas-vineyard/13828867/

CHILMARK, Massachusetts (AP) — President Barack Obama on Saturday left Washington for his familiar spot on Martha's Vineyard for a two-week summer vacation, which comes as the U.S. is engaged in airstrikes against Islamic militant targets in Iraq.

I thought Obama didn't like rich people because they don't pay their fair share???  How much did we pay for this rental?

http://www.mvtimes.com/2014/07/09/president-obama-will-return-chilmark/

Though not confirmed by the White House, the Obamas are expected to stay at the home of Joanne Hubschman at 72 Gosnold’s Way off Prospect Hill Road, said neighbors and Prospect Hill residents, some of whom requested anonymity because Ms. Hubschman told them on condition of secrecy. *The seven-bedroom, nine-bath, 8,100-square-foot house, sits on a 10-acre lot and is assessed at more than $12 million.* It features 17 rooms in total, expansive water views of Vineyard Sound, an infinity pool and hot tub, and a dual tennis-basketball court

The Brits apparently noticed too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Vineyard-round-airstrikes-carried-Iraq.html

*'This is going to be a long term project': Obama announces that US military involvement in Iraq will continue for MONTHS... as he jets off for Martha's Vineyard vacation and the golf course*


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 10, 2014)

Unfortunately this whole "holy" tribal area war is going to have to take place. Unless we are going to say XYZ tribe will rule, and all other tribes will be subject's to xyz, then we need to stay out of it and allow these people to wipe each other out. Let the Islamic Middle East figure it all out, sell them the weapons and sit back and watch the show. Eventually some group will become the big fish, and when they don't work with us, we can than crush them.

My$.02


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## AWP (Aug 10, 2014)

Iraq version 2.0 has an unlimited timeline and the Afghanistan pullout and troop numbers are set in stone? Where's the "Ima throw chairs and then go puke" icon?


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## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

lindy said:


> "...the Obamas are expected to stay at the home of Joanne Hubschman at 72 Gosnold’s Way off Prospect Hill Road, said neighbors and Prospect Hill residents, some of whom requested anonymity because Ms. Hubschman told them on condition of secrecy. *The seven-bedroom, nine-bath, 8,100-square-foot house, sits on a 10-acre lot and is assessed at more than $12 million.* It features 17 rooms in total, expansive water views of Vineyard Sound, an infinity pool and hot tub, and a dual tennis-basketball court..."


 

Its good to be the King.

I wonder if our air crews will get any hottub time between sorties.


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## Brill (Aug 10, 2014)

JAB said:


> Let the Islamic Middle East figure it all out, sell them the weapons and sit back and watch the show. Eventually some group will become the big fish, and when they don't work with us, we can than crush them.



I think you just summed up the ME policy of the 90's.


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## Marine0311 (Aug 10, 2014)

I don't like this.


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## AWP (Aug 10, 2014)

lindy said:


> I think you just summed up the ME policy of the 90's.


 
We had a policy in the 90's?


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## CQB (Aug 10, 2014)

IS isn't a terrorist organisation its a terrorist state with a terrorist army. It's well funded, allegedly, and is not going to go away. The only force capable of doing anything are the Kurdish Pesh Merga, but they need backup. (Turkey possibly, but maybe not). 
News just in is that Bagdad is splitting along certain fault lines...Kurds/Sunni/Shia. 
Todays paper here is beyond the pale, grotesque and barbaric, there's some pretty sick images on SOCMED but this is appalling.    

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ness-wars-horror/story-e6frg8yo-1227019872823


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## pardus (Aug 11, 2014)

CQB said:


> IS isn't a terrorist organisation its a terrorist state with a terrorist army. It's well funded, allegedly, and is not going to go away. The only force capable of doing anything are the Kurdish Pesh Merga, but they need backup. (Turkey possibly, but maybe not).
> News just in is that Bagdad is splitting along certain fault lines...Kurds/Sunni/Shia.
> Todays paper here is beyond the pale, grotesque and barbaric, there's some pretty sick images on SOCMED but this is appalling.
> 
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ness-wars-horror/story-e6frg8yo-1227019872823



I cant see it as it's asking to set up an account first.


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## Dame (Aug 11, 2014)

*NSFW!*
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...orld-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1227020303828


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## CQB (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks @Dame,it must be a Geoblock with Brother @pardus.


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## Dame (Aug 11, 2014)

CQB said:


> Thanks @Dame,it must be a Geoblock with Brother @pardus.



No worries. Twitter has snapshots of the actual newspaper but it's so much worse I don't even want to post it.


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## CQB (Aug 11, 2014)

Too true, there's been some terrible pics of late but, this one takes the biscuit.
ETA: no, I was wrong. I just saw an image so revolting I nearly threw up. No link to it ever. I can't even get my head around that type of depravity.


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## RackMaster (Aug 11, 2014)

The news here is only reporting on the air drops and now weapons supplied.  Nothing on how it may be to little, to late.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Aug 11, 2014)

RackMaster said:


> The news here is only reporting on the air drops and now weapons supplied.  Nothing on how it may be to little, to late.




This morning I heard (on the radio) the Kurds were able to take two towns back.  Hopefully they can keep the momentum.


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## Gunz (Aug 11, 2014)

The "Caliph" is apparently making millions through extortion, theft, the capture of oil fields, etc.  And as unspeakable as the depravities are, there is method, organization and a plan behind the madness. I haven't seen any proposal yet coming out of the US, UN, Europe or the ME that will have the muscle to stop this. And nobody wants a piece of this on the the ground.


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## Queeg (Aug 11, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> The "Caliph" has former Baath Party military and intel professionals at the core of the "terrorist army," he's making millions through extortion, theft, the capture of oil fields, etc.  And as unspeakable as the depravities are, there is method, organization and a plan behind the madness. I haven't seen any proposal yet coming out of the US, UN, Europe or the ME that will have the muscle to stop this. And nobody wants a piece of this on the the ground.


 
I was wondering something along similar lines.  It's one thing to establish their own state but it's another thing to "keep the lights running".  Sure they have about $2.4 billion and gold but it won't last forever.  One  of the things a state has to do to remain viable is a plan for maintaining roads, power, water and all that other good infrastructure stuff which requires a source of income ie. an economy.   Aside from their Qatari and Saudi sponsors, what else does ISIS have going for them and how much easier would it be to track and hence cut off the weapons and cash supply from these guys?  They are no longer some nebulous thing; we know where they are.

And yeah, I've seen the pics of the beheaded kids.  Wish I hadn't.


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## Marine0311 (Aug 12, 2014)

Seeing those pictures and in a newspaper today of kids with food eating while dirty breaks my heart.


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## pardus (Aug 12, 2014)

I know it's a kind of silly and unrealistic thing but I can't help wanting to hear of a call to arms for westerners to get together privately and go in there and sort these pricks out. They wouldn't stand a chance against us with no holds barred.


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## SpaceshipDoorGunner (Aug 12, 2014)

PaulD said:


> I was wondering something along similar lines.  It's one thing to establish their own state but it's another thing to "keep the lights running".  Sure they have about $2.4 billion and gold but it won't last forever.  One  of the things a state has to do to remain viable is a plan for maintaining roads, power, water and all that other good infrastructure stuff which requires a source of income ie. an economy.   Aside from their Qatari and Saudi sponsors, what else does ISIS have going for them and how much easier would it be to track and hence cut off the weapons and cash supply from these guys?  They are no longer some nebulous thing; we know where they are.
> 
> And yeah, I've seen the pics of the beheaded kids.  Wish I hadn't.




I don't think it will become an issue for these guys to make money anytime soon.


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## 104TN (Aug 12, 2014)

pardus said:


> I know it's a kind of silly and unrealistic thing but I can't help wanting to hear of a call to arms for westerners to get together privately and go in there and sort these pricks out. They wouldn't stand a chance against us with no holds barred.



A new crusade you say? I'm down.


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## CQB (Aug 13, 2014)

There's movement from Europe & the UK. 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/12/uk-iraq-kurds-yazidis-isis


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2014)

CQB said:


> There's movement from Europe & the UK.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/12/uk-iraq-kurds-yazidis-isis



Great, the Kurds can use European weapons to fight ISIS who are using US weapons.


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## racing_kitty (Aug 13, 2014)

Just as long as we didn't allow for ISIS to acquire any M1-A1's, it's not impossible.


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> Just as long as we didn't allow for ISIS to acquire any M1-A1's, it's not impossible.



They have them already...

http://online.wsj.com/articles/mich...g-the-isis-vulnerabilities-in-iraq-1407884145



> Today, we estimate that ISIS has less than a total of 30 working M1 Abrams tanks and howitzers that are either self-propelled or towed behind trucks (based on our knowledge of how the Iraqi army is equipped and what divisions were in the north). These are the weapons that gave the Islamic State the advantage over the Peshmerga in recent firefights.


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## racing_kitty (Aug 13, 2014)

Well, fuck.  


I'm going to go beat myself, Opus Dei style, for that one.


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## SexyBeast (Aug 13, 2014)

The fact that this is even happening is fucking ridiculous. 

As mentioned earlier... Taking over territory is one thing, managing an occupied country is another... 

What sucks is that all these innocents are being murdered while we wait to see if they are going to fail in being able to manage running and bankrolling a country.


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## CQB (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm just pleased that something is being done. 
I'm also curious regarding the admin of the new state. I've seen the pretty pix of water, food distribution & garbage wrangling, the expulsion of minorities, now what?


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## RackMaster (Aug 13, 2014)

We sent money, does that help?


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## Gunz (Aug 13, 2014)

I read today that ISIS revenue is $1-million per day. So while they rape, pillage and behead, the ISIS accounting dept can hardly keep up with the cash flow. They are also--and I found this interesting--holding "Kid's Day's" for the children in occupied areas (after they disembowel the non-believers, of course), so ISIS apparently has a civic action program.


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## AWP (Aug 13, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> so ISIS apparently has a civic action program.


 
Sadly, that's more than we had in the wake of the 2003 invasion.


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## BloodStripe (Aug 13, 2014)

A reported 130 military advisers are heading to northern Iraq.


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 13, 2014)

I was on the fence about the invasion of Iraq in 03, I would wholeheartedly support a fucking Pope sanctioned crusade in Iraq/Syria right about now.

The sheeple need to be forced to watch the raw footage of what is going on there right now, 7 year old girls need to be coming home from school in tears shocked and quaking with fear that ISIS is going to get them.  Maybe then the masses of sheep that haven't had to shoulder the burden of their own security for so long they live in a deluded utopia will finally demand that the gloves be taken off.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 14, 2014)

Yeah pretty much I'm down for helping the Kurds. Shit if I was not tied up now, I would not mind shipping out as a passport civi, offering my less than knowledgeable advice...


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## Gunz (Aug 14, 2014)

How much infrastructure do you need to run a 10th century caliphate? The leaders get the nice cribs and concubines...everybody else craps in the bushes and drinks river water. Your kid goes to the madrassa (only one book), your wife wears a blanket on her head (no Saks 5th Avenue) and you do anything you're told. You get sick, cold, hungry, suck it up,  it's the will of Allah. Because the complaint department is a pit out back full of rotting corpses.

The only way these guys are gonna be stopped is by brute force. Go ahead and apply sanctions, freeze their assets, drop humanitarian aid, strike them from the air when they go mobile in their captured vehicles...but in the end somebody's going to have to get face-to face primal with these MFers.


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## Marine0311 (Aug 14, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> How much infrastructure do you need to run a 10th century caliphate? The leaders get the nice cribs and concubines...everybody else craps in the bushes in drinks river water. Your kid goes to the madrassa (only one book), your wife wears a blanket on her head (no Saks 5th Avenue) and you do anything you're told. You get sick, cold, hungry, suck it up,  it's the will of Allah. Because the complaint department is a pit out back full of rotting corpses.
> 
> The only way these guys are gonna be stopped is by brute force. Go ahead and apply sanctions, freeze their assets, drop humanitarian aid, strike them from the air when they go mobile in their captured vehicles...but in the end somebody's going to have to get face-to face primal with these MFers.



I agree. I am leaning towards that position. Naked brute force. Wipe them all out.


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## Dame (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, someone's sending SF. Thank goodness.

*Britain deploys SAS special forces in northern Iraq*



1 hour ago

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has deployed SAS special forces in northern Iraq where thousands of civilians are trapped on a mountain by Sunni militant fighters, the Daily Telegraph newspaper reported on Thursday.
Citing Britain's trade envoy to Iraq, Emma Nicholson, the paper said that officers from the Special Air Service (SAS), the army's special forces regiment, were working with U.S. troops to gather intelligence and had been in Iraq for about six weeks.
When asked about the newspaper report, a spokesman for Britain's Ministry of Defence said it did not comment on special forces operations.
http://news.yahoo.com/britain-deplo...thern-iraq-telegraph-092225479--business.html


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## pardus (Aug 14, 2014)

Dame said:


> Well, someone's sending SF. Thank goodness.
> 
> *Britain deploys SAS Special Forces in northern Iraq*
> 
> ...



_IF_ this article is to be believed then the SAS members will probably be doing not much except talk/advise and write reports etc... They are Officers not operators.


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## compforce (Aug 14, 2014)

pardus said:


> _IF_ this article is to be believed then the SAS members will probably be doing not much except talk/advise and write reports etc... They are Officers not operators.



Death by Power Point!


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## AWP (Aug 14, 2014)

Yay...the SAS are in town. Why? Maybe they needed per diem? Training? Advising? Shooting people in the face?

Who cares? I may care but I don't need to know. I hate these articles. Short on substance, long on the "Ooh and ahh factor" for ratings. If you take it at 100% face value (I trust professional wrestling more than I do the modern media) you have a bunch of Captains and Majors sitting around and gathering/ collating/ analysing intel reports. Good stuff, but I doubt that's what is going on. Besides, I've seen our own press call NCO's "officers" (for those of you playing along at home, that's the "O" in "NCO") so the Reuter's article is less trustworthy than my cat.

As much as I hate the concept of becoming involved in Iraq, I hate ISIS/L even more. What really chafes me is we're putting more effort into stopping them than we are in Afghanistan. I may point out that our departure from Afghanistan will more or less mirror our departure from Iraq.

Madness.


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## Gunz (Aug 14, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Yay...the SAS are in town. Why? Maybe they needed per diem? Training? Advising? Shooting people in the face?
> ...Madness.


 

I agree 100%. Sending an SAS contingent (as much as I dig those guys) is just another half-hearted, half-assed gesture. It makes the politicians feel good, like they're doing something about the situation without the risk of any real committment.  Gestures aren't gonna stop these fucking animals.  I don't want to see our guys and girls getting tangled up in this shit again...but God knows we've gone to war for lesser reasons. What's needed here are not contingents but _divisions _of cold-blooded killers. If ever there was a need for a coalition, it's now. If these ISIS fuckers aren't worth killing, nobody is.

Sadly, Free, I also agree with you about Afghanistan. My feelings about COIN/FID operations can be summed up in a simple sentence: all the enemy has to do to win is wait for us to leave.


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## Brill (Aug 14, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Yay...the SAS are in town. Why? Maybe they needed per diem? Training? Advising? Shooting people in the face?
> 
> Who cares? I may care but I don't need to know. I hate these articles. Short on substance, long on the "Ooh and ahh factor" for ratings. If you take it at 100% face value (I trust professional wrestling more than I do the modern media) you have a bunch of Captains and Majors sitting around and gathering/ collating/ analysing intel reports. Good stuff, but I doubt that's what is going on. Besides, I've seen our own press call NCO's "officers" (for those of you playing along at home, that's the "O" in "NCO") so the Reuter's article is less trustworthy than my cat.
> 
> ...



Afghan-I-forgot.


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## CQB (Aug 14, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> How much infrastructure do you need to run a 10th century caliphate? The leaders get the nice cribs and concubines...everybody else craps in the bushes and drinks river water. Your kid goes to the madrassa (only one book), your wife wears a blanket on her head (no Saks 5th Avenue) and you do anything you're told. You get sick, cold, hungry, suck it up,  it's the will of Allah. Because the complaint department is a pit out back full of rotting corpses.
> 
> The only way these guys are gonna be stopped is by brute force. Go ahead and apply sanctions, freeze their assets, drop humanitarian aid, strike them from the air when they go mobile in their captured vehicles...but in the end somebody's going to have to get face-to face primal with these MFers.



As Allah, the powerful ME Tooth Fairy has protected Gaza, it is written it will protect the IS.


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## pardus (Aug 14, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> I agree 100%. Sending an SAS contingent (as much as I dig those guys) is just another half-hearted, half-assed gesture. It makes the politicians feel good, like they're doing something about the situation without the risk of any real committment.  Gestures aren't gonna stop these fucking animals.  I don't want to see our guys and girls getting tangled up in this shit again...but God knows we've gone to war for lesser reasons. What's needed here are not contingents but _divisions _of cold-blooded killers. If ever there was a need for a coalition, it's now. If these ISIS fuckers aren't worth killing, nobody is.
> 
> Sadly, Free, I also agree with you about Afghanistan. My feelings about COIN/FID operations can be summed up in a simple sentence: all the enemy has to do to win is wait for us to leave.



If an SAS squadron was sent in (supported) it would be a far different story. They could indeed be a game changer, just as the small number of SOF guys (supported) routed the Taliban circa 2001.


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## Gunz (Aug 15, 2014)

pardus said:


> If an SAS squadron was sent in (supported) it would be a far different story. They could indeed be a game changer, just as the small number of SOF guys (supported) routed the Taliban circa 2001.


 
Yes sir, SOF + Terminal Guidance is a beautiful thing. But in urban areas wouldn't those options be limited? I'm just thinking if ISIS feels enough pressure they'll activate "jihadist default mode" and melt into the urban labyrinth where they can hide behind women and children. These guys have made clear their intentions of taking over the Islamic world and annihilating the Jewish State. As much faith as we have in precision munitions and Special Operations it seems to me that ultimately--with these fanatics-- it's going to have to get down to rifles and frags.

(Speaking of Israel, I wonder which ISIS OPLAN they'll choose to initiate in case the insanity gets too close.)


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## Queeg (Aug 15, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> (Speaking of Israel, I wonder which ISIS OPLAN they'll choose to initiate in case the insanity gets too close.)


 
OPLAN GLASS THEM ALL


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## Crusader74 (Aug 16, 2014)

They are producing their own propaganda videos now to scare the bejaysus out of the West and all that is normal...

This is an hour long and I must say it scares the bejaysus out of me..

This graphic and NSFW



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Gunz (Aug 18, 2014)

I can see this kind of thing appealing to young, poor, malcontented Muslim males. You get to kill and rape and loot and go nuts, get all those frustrations out, vent off all that pent up anger. ISIS will get its share of recruits through videos like this...and in the active recruiting efforts going on in Muslim communities around the world.

I'll bet the "moderate" oil sheiks are probably watching this unfold with trepidation. Maybe that's why ISIS is getting funding from SA, Qatar and Kuwait. The Princes have always feared groundswells like this...it could mean the end of Mercedes races in the desert and partying in foreign discos.


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## Etype (Aug 18, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> ...


I've always thought the Taliban would be the only option if I were a kid growing up Afghanistan- it's a terrible boring place, no adventure or fun to be had.

Now the poor desert regions of southeastern Syria and western Iraq have their equivalent.


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## Brill (Aug 18, 2014)

Etype said:


> I've always thought the Taliban would be the only option if I were a kid growing up Afghanistan- it's a terrible boring place, no adventure or fun to be had.
> 
> Now the poor desert regions of southeastern Syria and western Iraq have their equivalent.



All about status; no different than a poor kid looking at Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, etc.


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## Etype (Aug 21, 2014)

lindy said:


> All about status; no different than a poor kid looking at Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, etc.


In addition to that- there's not much a chance for a kid in Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever to join the national security forces.

Kids living in western Anbar are far removed from the Baghdad centric Shia clique that is ISF, they know that its not for them.


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## Gunz (Aug 21, 2014)

Not only that, what to do in a culture that suppresses sexual, behavioral and intellectual expression...key outlets for teenagers and young adults. Not a lot of fun-options available.


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