# 18x enlistment criteria



## goon175 (Mar 14, 2013)

This is the most current 18x USAREC message, laying out the qualifications for MOS 18x.



> SUBJECT:  Special Forces (SF) Enlistment Program.  (Updated)
> 1.  This message is valid for 2 years from date of publication, unless rescinded
> or superseded.
> 2.  The purpose of this message is to announce changes to the Army Physical
> ...


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Mar 14, 2013)

This should be a sticky, IMO!
Great info Goon!!  I hope it's utilized.


----------



## goon175 (Mar 14, 2013)

> _Promotion will be based solely on AR 601-210, 2-18 and 3-17. The SF_
> _Recruiting Initiative to PFC/E-3 is no longer authorized._


 
I don't understand how this will work. From what I understand, you signed as an 18x and got automatically promoted to E-3, and then upon selection at SFAS you were promoted to E-4, and then upon completion of the SFQC you were promoted to E-5. How is this going to work with guys coming in to the SF pipeline as E-1's and E-2's? Anyone have any insight? Is it possible that the new minimum rank for an ODA might be a Corporal?


----------



## Atlas (Mar 14, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I don't understand how this will work. From what I understand, you signed as an 18x and got automatically promoted to E-3, and then upon selection at SFAS you were promoted to E-4, and then upon completion of the SFQC you were promoted to E-5. How is this going to work with guys coming in to the SF pipeline as E-1's and E-2's? Anyone have any insight? Is it possible that the new minimum rank for an ODA might be a Corporal?


Got told today that I was grandfathered in and will be going in as E-3.  I was wondering this aswell I was gonna ask my recruiter today but they had alot of orientations to do.


----------



## AWP (Mar 14, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I don't understand how this will work. From what I understand, you signed as an 18x and got automatically promoted to E-3, and then upon selection at SFAS you were promoted to E-4, and then upon completion of the SFQC you were promoted to E-5. How is this going to work with guys coming in to the SF pipeline as E-1's and E-2's? Anyone have any insight? Is it possible that the new minimum rank for an ODA might be a Corporal?


 
They would enlist as E-1'2/-2's and not see a promotion until after successful completion of SFAS maybe? I'm reading the message like "You aren't enlisting as an E-3 unless you meet those pre-reqs and 18x is no longer a pre-req."


----------



## goon175 (Mar 14, 2013)

but even then, you still have to meet TIS/TIG requirements, and they can't just shoot them from E-2 to E-5 in that short amount of time.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Mar 14, 2013)

goon175 said:


> but even then, you still have to meet TIS/TIG requirements, and they can't just shoot them from E-2 to E-5 in that short amount of time.


Speaking strictly from what I saw in the SWCC pipeline, guys could (and did) ship to/graduate boot camp as an E1/2/3.  Upon completion of ATP/BCT/CQT & receiving their pin, they automatically became an E4 despite what rank they went through the (6-7 month) pipeline as.  Not enough time to meet TIS/TIG, but the promotion to E4 was automatic upon completion of the pipeline.


----------



## reed11b (Mar 14, 2013)

Why no love for us old guys anymore? Everyone knows we grow better beards, and are therefore better SF candidates.
Reed


----------



## thatoneguy72 (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm 30 now and therefore too old but are they now taking waivers?


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 17, 2013)

reed11b said:


> Why no love for us old guys anymore? Everyone knows we grow better beards, and are therefore better SF candidates.
> Reed


 
Too "old school," not enough hands-in-pockets experience.


----------



## amlove21 (Mar 17, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I don't understand how this will work. From what I understand, you signed as an 18x and got automatically promoted to E-3, and then upon selection at SFAS you were promoted to E-4, and then upon completion of the SFQC you were promoted to E-5. How is this going to work with guys coming in to the SF pipeline as E-1's and E-2's? Anyone have any insight? Is it possible that the new minimum rank for an ODA might be a Corporal?


The same thing recently happened with us. We were promoted to E4 upon completion of our finishing school in the past, now that's gone. We actually have E-3's running around the squadron now. Strange.


----------



## goon175 (Mar 17, 2013)

> The same thing recently happened with us. We were promoted to E4 upon completion of our finishing school in the past, now that's gone. We actually have E-3's running around the squadron now. Strange.


 
If this sort of thing is going on, I'm wondering if that is going to squash 75th RR's plans to make the minimum rank for them an E-4.


----------



## Scotth (Mar 20, 2013)

Maybe they just want to avoid guys getting E-3 automatically on day 1 only to have them washout after airborne and they never really wanted the pipeline. Now they can send them back to Big Army as E-1's or with Bat Wings.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 21, 2013)

The way the promotion system works at least for medics(18D candidates) is, enlist at whatever rank E3-E-4, then after 1 year in service promote to E-4, after completion of SOCM, BNCOC or whatever it's called now, SUT and SERE they get promoted to E-5, then come back and go to SFMS. There had been problems with medics getting promoted behind their peers due to the length of the MOS portion so they broke it up and promoted within.


----------



## goon175 (Mar 21, 2013)

But I am wondering what is going to happen when you have an E-1 show up at the Q-Course? I mean, lets say they get 18B, which is shorter than the other MOS pipelines, how are they going to leave an E-5?


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 21, 2013)

Can you get 18X with a 4 year contract?  That seems like it would be a wasted slot if you can.

I am thinking a 6 year contract with E-3 as your enlistment rank, E-4 at the 12 month point (you would be in the training pie by then) and E-5 at graduation.


----------



## NoiseOnMars (Mar 26, 2013)

These are some pretty stringent standards in comparison to earlier years, however, I  know it's with sound reason. I'm surprised there isn't a swim assessment in there somewhere though.


----------



## goon175 (Mar 26, 2013)

These are the same standards that have been in place for years, actually it's less than it was in the past as the GT requirement went from 110 to 107. The main change in this message is that you will no longer get an auto promotion to E-3 as an 18x.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 26, 2013)

So a few of my buddies had this happen to them. They were E-1's /e-2's in Basic, picked up an 18X slot and went off to SFAS after selection, bam E-3. Then at a year in service got E-4, then whenever they graduated made 5. Remember the SF MOS's are all mtoed to at least E-5.


----------



## amlove21 (Mar 28, 2013)

That's the crappiest thing about being a PJ- it's a very small, very competitive career field. Everyone maxes out medal and enlisted rating points, testing is very tight. Consider last E6 cycle, we promoted 14 total, across the career field. 

So, guys that would absolutely smoke the rest of the AF, they have to test against the other superstars in the AF. You end up with guys that SHOULD be NCOs that aren't because of the system. Now we have guys that don't start as E4 and have to wait as much as a year to even get a shot at testing.


----------



## Kunoichii (Apr 25, 2013)

amlove21 said:


> That's the crappiest thing about being a PJ- it's a very small, very competitive career field. Everyone maxes out medal and enlisted rating points, testing is very tight. Consider last E6 cycle, we promoted 14 total, across the career field.
> 
> So, guys that would absolutely smoke the rest of the AF, they have to test against the other superstars in the AF. You end up with guys that SHOULD be NCOs that aren't because of the system. Now we have guys that don't start as E4 and have to wait as much as a year to even get a shot at testing.


Well we can't have all the PJs be chiefs either.


----------



## amlove21 (Apr 26, 2013)

Kunoichii said:


> Well we can't have all the PJs be chiefs either.


Sure. I mean, we all think we are anyway, so...... 

Not all the PJ's should be Chiefs- but the promotion standard for the same rank shouldn't be 65 points higher (not an exaggeration) than the regular AF either.


----------



## AWP (Apr 26, 2013)

amlove21 said:


> Sure. I mean, we all think we are anyway, so......
> 
> Not all the PJ's should be Chiefs- but the promotion standard for the same rank shouldn't be 65 points higher (not an exaggeration) than the regular AF either.


 
Chief in the Air Force: need to know how to stab someone in the back
Chief in the PJ/ CCT/ TACP Air Force: need to know how to cut someone's throat

That's the 65 points.


----------



## pardus (Apr 27, 2013)

Kunoichii said:


> Well we can't have all the PJs be chiefs either.


 
Why not?


----------



## x SF med (Apr 28, 2013)

Speaking from my experience in SF prior to the rank smoothing....  I enlisted as an E-3 (due to college and reserve training), got E-4 at the start of SFQC ( old Phase I in the 3 Phase Course)  got my "S" which became 18 series...  as an 11B2SCC2, I was holding down an E-6 slot (Old MTO&E) as an E-4, same same as an 18B2CC2...  points for 11B were 999, NO MTO&E for E-5 in the original 18 series Chart....  I got stuck as a Corporal (along with a bunch of others) until SOCOM and DA would process waivers so we could board.

Upon completion of training, and the 'probationary' period - get the guys promoted to E-5 based on solid course reviews and the first Team Sergeant and Senior review.  automatic promotions, eh, notsomuch...  they have to become NCOs and the only way to do that is to work with them on a Team.


----------



## nateh71 (May 6, 2013)

Got a question I'd like to run by you guys. I've already contacted 2 recruiters and both were not very interested in helping me out and didn't seem to know anything about 18X.

I'm prior service and originally enlisted 18X. I passed OSUT-Airborne-SOPC and was med dropped in the star. I got sent to an 11B unit and had two surgeries before they decided to start the MEB. 

I'm looking to get back in now under 18X. I'm in even better shape than before and am 100% healed. I don't know whether I'll even be able to get in and I'm sure only a recruiter can tell me but I was wondering since my circumstances are probably unique even for PS how would it affect me. Obviously I wouldn't go to Airborne but there's probably no way of getting out of going to Benning for at least a week or so. Would they still send me to SOPC even though I already passed it 2 years ago?


----------



## goon175 (May 6, 2013)

You need to post an intro, bro.

Getting back in will not be an easy road for you.


----------



## nateh71 (May 6, 2013)

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/intro.17921/

After being outright lied to and blown off by 4 different recruiters on the phone today I finally got a hold of one that is willing to help. He's gonna call up MEPS tomorrow and see if the no waiver rule applies to me since I don't need airborne school in my contract.


----------



## surgicalcric (May 7, 2013)

nateh71 said:


> <<SNIP>>.


 
What were the findings of the PEB (Physical Evaluation Board)?

Sorry to say, if they found you to be unfit for duty according to AR40-501 and separated you medically (retired or otherwise) you will not be coming back into the Army while we are drawing down. 

As for the ABN/SOPC questions: a waiver allowing you to enlist, since you separated medically would disqualify you from the 18x contract.  You would also need to appply for a second waiver from the USAJFKWCS surgeon to attend training - your having separated medically would be a certain disqualification in his eyes.  However if by some miracle you were to enlist you would attend SOPC once again.


----------



## nateh71 (May 7, 2013)

Hopefully I'll find out more tomorrow. A recruiter is going to call MEPS and run it by them. My reentry code is 3, so technically I can get in with a waiver as long as they'll accept one. PEB gave me a 0% rating.

If 18X isn't an option I'm gonna look into NG. I know they don't offer the Rep-63 for PS but the NG SF recruiters I've talked to from Cali and Texas say they just have a loophole where you pass their SFRE tryout and enlist under your old MOS but you start prepping for SFAS with the Rep-63 guys.


----------



## nateh71 (May 7, 2013)

I know about the issue with guys not getting 18X with a waiver but the more I looked into it and asked around with recruiters it seemed the real issue was that you can't get airborne in your contract with a waiver. So it seemed likely to me that by not needing airborne it would free things up. I wasn't aware of needing to get a waiver with USAJFKWCS. I was under the impression that once you get through MEPS with a waiver and then pass the SF physical at Benning that you have a clean slate when you arrive at Bragg. When I went through in 2011 I had buddies that had some pretty serious injuries that required waivers (broken neck with pins for one) and they had no issues getting through the SF physical because they had their waivers from MEPS.


----------



## surgicalcric (May 8, 2013)

nateh71 said:


> ... When I went through in 2011 I had buddies that had some pretty serious injuries that required waivers (broken neck with pins for one) and they had no issues getting through the SF physical because they had their waivers from MEPS.


 
How many of them had been PEBd out of the military prior?

Chances are if someone enlisted with pins in their neck still they lied somewhere to get in, especially into SF.  

Best of luck to you.


----------



## nateh71 (May 8, 2013)

I see your point. 

I heard back from the recruiter that called MEPS. The doctors told him that as long as I can get a waiver I should be able to get the contract. The loophole of not needing airborne in my contract looks to be the reason why. After that I think the only hurdle in my way would be passing an SF physical. I definitely have a unique case for someone trying to get back in, haha.


----------



## Raiderfit (Jul 19, 2013)

I have seen a 34 year old go through the MARSOC Assessment and Selection and get selected.  I also saw a 35 year old get through the Individual Training Course.  I fully understand that because the unit is just starting out that they needed bunch of good guys and maybe that is why they let the older guys in, but my point is EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE.  For all of you guys looking into getting into SOF that don't meet the criteria here is a negotiation technique that can put some chips in your corner:

1. Contact the decision maker.  Have him tell you the insiders info.  Probably an officer who is responsible for numbers.  It's easy to get these guys.  When I was a Corporal (USMC) looking into going to the Army SF program, I called directly to the school and spoke to a Major.  He was the decision maker for a transfer package.  He let me know exactly where I fell short and what I needed to do to get my package through the red tape faster.  The best part about was...I got his personal cellphone number out of the conversation and an interview (Goal for 1st meeting/contact...set up the secondary meet/contac).  All the other guys between me and him were too busy with thousands of other packages.  PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY BUT...The officer actually liked getting involved when I called him.  Oh by the way...I was talked out of the transfer and stayed in the Corps...for the better.

2. Everything is waiverable.  Use their standards against them.  For example, if you do not meet the rank criteria, explain to the recruiter/decision maker that you are  up for promotion and that you are doing everything to expedite your promotion (meritorious promotion boards, schooling etc...).  This way they can assume that you are going to make rank while your package is being routed through the red tape.  Remember, the guys that are making the decisions sit in an office all day long.  You MUST paint the picture for them.  They will not do the research to HELP you.  One thing about gate keepers... they don't like to work extra for non-card holding dudes.

3. You need insiders help.  Find mentors or just ask someone who is already in to help you.  That simple.  Guys that are in like to talk to guys that are in...it's a rule in life: If he walks, talks, looks like me...well he must be a trust worthy dude. Right?

Hope this helps.


----------

