# Should we care about deported veterans?



## Marauder06 (Dec 21, 2016)

Deported veterans fight to return 'home' - CNNPolitics.com

Going to write an article about this.  Going-in position is, "you don't get special privileges and felony waivers just because you served in the military."  Interested to hear any contrary points of view before I start writing.


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## CDG (Dec 21, 2016)

I agree with your position, Sir.  This veteran entitlement attitude is starting to get WAY out of hand.


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## Marine0311 (Dec 21, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Deported veterans fight to return 'home' - CNNPolitics.com
> 
> Going to write an article about this.  Going-in position is, "you don't get special privileges and felony waivers just because you served in the military."  Interested to hear any contrary points of view before I start writing.



I wouldn't start with that position. Generally speaking deported veterans should be able to come back. Then go into specific cases.


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## Devildoc (Dec 21, 2016)

Historically you _do_ get special privileges for having served.  I guess my first question would be, where does that start and stop?  I agree with @Marine0311, perhaps they should be expedited to come back and have a hearing.


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## Gunz (Dec 21, 2016)

Case-by-case basis. But a felony conviction? You bought the ticket, you take the ride.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 21, 2016)

Guys, they already had a hearing. That's why they got deported.  Unless I'm missing something?


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## Gunz (Dec 21, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Guys, they already had a hearing. That's why they got deported.  Unless I'm missing something?



Well, in that case, sir, fuck em. They can continue to enjoy all the entertainment TJ has to offer.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 21, 2016)

People fuck up, I think anyone who puts on our uniform and fights for our country should be automatically made a citizen. With that, people who have done that and fuck up down the road should be afforded the ability to redeem themselves. Obviously dependent of the crime committed.

I'm a bit mixed on this one. There are special veteran courts here in Texas, and I agree with them. As most veterans fresh off deployments tend to do stupid shit trying to peice their lives back together.  But being a veteran shouldn't be a get out of jail free card. But we also should take into account why they are fucking up and more so, have empathy for those who are fucked up from service to our nation.

$.02


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## x SF med (Dec 22, 2016)

They served, they did not follow through on citizenship or even inquire about the next steps.  The statement "I thought by signing up for the military I was automatically a citizen.", is telling.  If an individual knows they don't have citizenship, that their family illegally crossed the border, or even legally with work visas why are these individuals saying it is somebody else's fault they got deported for failing to follow through on the final pieces of the citizenship process?  We have members here who have followed this process, green card, enlist, citizenship, still serving.

I'll commiserate that it would suck to be caught in TJ for the rest of your life, but it's your errors that got you there and keep you there.  get your citizenship, you go to prison...  I think maybe TJ is better than prison.


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## Etype (Dec 22, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> People fuck up, I think anyone who puts on our uniform and fights for our country should be automatically made a citizen. With that, people who have done that and fuck up down the road should be afforded the ability to redeem themselves. Obviously dependent of the crime committed.


I definitely don't agree with automatic citizenship. As @x SF med said, the path to citizenship is easy for veterans- if they don't capitalize on that golden opportunity, it's their own fault.

To your second point, all US citizens have the opportunity to redeem themselves depending on the crime they commit as part of their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But that's the point, rights are for citizens.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2016)

The path to citizenship when a green card holder has enlisted and is in active service is extremely accelerated.  When I was an S1 I never had to deal with it.  The only occasion anything remotely similar came up was when one of my 42As was married to a Vietnamese national...needless to say I didn't know a year earlier he had tried to get a fiance visa for a different woman...and that was the reason State was skeptical.  We have swearing in ceremonies on almost every installation, yearly, for non-citizens serving in all services.  So it's not like it's a secret.

For anyone on this board that happens to not be a citizen...here are all of the steps: Naturalization Through Military Service: Fact Sheet


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## pardus (Dec 23, 2016)

I'm not sure if people are aware but the easy citizenship process for service members only came into effect during W Bush's tenure. 
I can think of one member on this board off the top of my head who was turned down at least once for his citizenship because he was deployed at the time USCIS wanted to interview him. 

Also how about a little compassion and understanding of veterans when they fuck up and transgress the law. 
Some people are just fuck ups and are well deserving of being fucked, but many slip up due to deployment issues. 
If a vet kills himself because of PTSD it's a Tragedy, if they get arrested and sent to jail for PTSD, fuck them?
Is that the message?

Food for thought. 
Remember, every one of you has broken the law at some point.


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## Etype (Dec 23, 2016)

pardus said:


> Also how about a little compassion and understanding of veterans when they fuck up and transgress the law.
> ...if they get arrested and sent to jail for PTSD, fuck them?
> Is that the message?


There should be compassion and understanding, but they should still receive a sentence within the guidelines for crimes they are convicted of.

PTSD isn't and shouldn't be a plea. If you have problems then you should seek out help, but you shouldn't allow your problems to effect an innocent third party.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 23, 2016)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure if people are aware but the easy citizenship process for service members only came into effect during W Bush's tenure.
> I can think of one member on this board off the top of my head who was turned down at least once for his citizenship because he was deployed at the time USCIS wanted to interview him.
> 
> Also how about a little compassion and understanding of veterans when they fuck up and transgress the law.
> ...




Compassion, for guys who got booted out of the service for misconduct, or who did drugs while in uniform and got arrested for doing a driveby after they ETS'd (as in the original story)?  And then to blame it all on "The PTSD?"  No way brother.


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## Gunz (Dec 23, 2016)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure if people are aware but the easy citizenship process for service members only came into effect during W Bush's tenure.
> I can think of one member on this board off the top of my head who was turned down at least once for his citizenship because he was deployed at the time USCIS wanted to interview him.
> 
> Also how about a little compassion and understanding of veterans when they fuck up and transgress the law.
> ...




I'll buy PTSD any day of the week as an excuse for certain fuck ups and transgressions by _actual_ combat veterans. I got a night in the can for a bar fight in 1990. That was PTSD+alcohol+an asshole but I still knew right from wrong. If these guys have already had their hearings, then they've had their hearing. It's up to them to take whatever steps they need to take to appeal or whatever. And there should be compassion where compassion is deserved. But I'm guessing more than a few of these guys are dirtbags who don't deserve any and who got banished for a good reason.


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## Etype (Dec 23, 2016)

I don't even agree with mental disability or insanity pleas when it comes to physically hurting other people. 

If someone were to harm my wife or kids, I wouldn't care one way or the other about their situation- especially if I had nothing to do with it.

In this case, the people back in Compton had nothing to do with this degenerate not getting his citizenship while he was enlisted, and they had nothing to do with him getting out of the Army. Luckily, he didn't hurt anybody.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 23, 2016)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure if people are aware but the easy citizenship process for service members only came into effect during W Bush's tenure.
> I can think of one member on this board off the top of my head who was turned down at least once for his citizenship because he was deployed at the time USCIS wanted to interview him.
> 
> Also how about a little compassion and understanding of veterans when they fuck up and transgress the law.
> ...



No, not really.  We all make mistakes, and we all pay.

I came on active duty right when the zero-tolerance, zero-defect policies right back online.  And yet I saw the standard not upheld by the echelons of command above me.


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## policemedic (Dec 23, 2016)

BLUF: I don't have much sympathy for these guys,  certainly not enough to bring them back because they served.

Being a veteran may or may not have helped me with becoming a citizen but it didn't expedite anything.

The people in the article weren't deported because they were in the country illegally. They were deported because they were permanent residents who broke the law. Not being a criminal is a condition of maintaining permanent residency status.

I understand that veterans--particularly combat veterans--bear burdens that a lot of people don't. I'm not sure whether the people in the article are combat vets, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument and say they have service-connected PTS.

After breaking the law, they had the opportunity to go in front of a judge and jury of their peers.  That is to say, they had an opportunity to bring up their status as veterans and their PTS diagnosis as possible mitigating factors that could have resulted in their receiving lighter sentences or alternative forms of punishment/supervision such as probation without verdict. They also weren't immediately deported after their conviction; they had the opportunity to participate in the appeals process.

None of that changed what they did, or their sentences.   The interests of justice were served.

I also think that it was possible for these vets to get the information they needed to apply for citizenship without much difficulty if they had chosen to pursue that path. I don't buy the whole "I didn't understand my status" thing.

I may be cynical, but I think at least some of these guys are playing up the vet angle because TJ sucks moose dick and they need a legitimate way back into the US.


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## Gunz (Dec 23, 2016)

policemedic said:


> ... I think at least some of these guys are playing up the vet angle because TJ sucks moose dick...



Donkey dick might be more apropos for TJ...


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## x SF med (Dec 23, 2016)

If you do an internet search for "citizenship for military service"  the site I used came back with 9.6 MILLION results in just under 1 millisecond.
Had these individuals gone to PAC to check on their citizenship status, they would have been steered in the right direction.  they have no excuses for failing to follow instructions and following through on goals they had set.  They assumed, they failed, they lost.

Well, they did the crimes, they pay the fines...  in this case deportation under the Naturalization protocols. 

Blaming PTS for actions well after discharge, after having not followed through on achieving citizenship, knowing they still only had a green card because they had to use their permanent resident number to file taxes....  Weak fucking excuses.  And the maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters, but the blast area/kill zone can be your career and your entire future.

should more evidence come to light that these men and women were in some way deceived about the path to citizenship through the military, then I'll sympathize, until then, they chose, they failed, they pay.


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## Bypass (Dec 23, 2016)

You shouldn't even be allowed to serve if you are here illegally. I guess if Bin Laden hopped the border and wanted to carry a gun for our side we would let him.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 23, 2016)

Bypass said:


> You shouldn't even be allowed to serve if you are here illegally. I guess if Bin Laden hopped the border and wanted to carry a gun for our side we would let him.


All of those guys were here legally when they enlisted.  They were deported for crimes committed following their terms of service.


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## policemedic (Dec 23, 2016)

Bypass said:


> You shouldn't even be allowed to serve if you are here illegally. I guess if Bin Laden hopped the border and wanted to carry a gun for our side we would let him.



You're not.


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## pardus (Dec 23, 2016)

Etype said:


> There should be compassion and understanding, but they should still receive a sentence within the guidelines for crimes they are convicted of.
> 
> PTSD isn't and shouldn't be a plea. If you have problems then you should seek out help, but you shouldn't allow your problems to effect an innocent third party.



Yeah, no argument. I'm glad that there are veteran courts though that are more understanding of veteran specific issues though.
I'm not sure where the innocent third party idea came from, nothing to do with the intent of my post.



Marauder06 said:


> Compassion, for guys who got booted out of the service for misconduct, or who did drugs while in uniform and got arrested for doing a driveby after they ETS'd (as in the original story)?  And then to blame it all on "The PTSD?"  No way brother.



No idea what you are talking about.
Again, nothing to do with the intent of my post.


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## Etype (Dec 23, 2016)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure where the innocent third party idea came from, nothing to do with the intent of my post.


The third party stuff came from original article, wherein the clown-in-question went back to Compton and was shooting a gun from a car.


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## pardus (Dec 23, 2016)

Etype said:


> The third party stuff came from original article, wherein the clown-in-question went back to Compton and was shooting a gun from a car.



Gotcha. Still nothing to do with the intent of my post though, this isn't about one or two specific cases, but a all encompassing program/policy/etc...
 I think most reasonable people would see a difference between someone doing a drive-by and someone who got fucked by circumstances, e.g. addicted to R/x meds due to service related issues.
We _all_ know/have seen absolute scumbags in the Military, bad before, during and after serving (one reason why I despise people saying "all veterans are heroes!"). As we all know, every population has it's 10%. 
I'm not addressing them, but the 90% that need understanding and a break.


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## Bypass (Dec 24, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> All of those guys were here legally when they enlisted.  They were deported for crimes committed following their terms of service.


Ah.


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