# .308



## dusty (Nov 24, 2008)

I still shoot a Rem 700 (short stroke) with a Shillen barrel at about half-life, an Arnold Jewell trigger, a good bed, with a Leupold 10x.

The last time I shot for score with some civvies out in OK, I noticed a preponderence of odd ammo and range finders: some 6.5 Grendel, .264, .338 Lapua etc.

I heard Marine snipers can't wait to get enough rounds through their barrels to punch it out to .300 Win Mag, but, that was years ago.  I have no idea what's being used out there, now-and I'd like to know!

What's the standard long-distance rig now for shooters, and what do the scouts use?

Is it true some shooter got a suburban kill with 7.62 at 1400+ yards recently?


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## Chad (Nov 24, 2008)

dusty said:


> ...
> 
> I heard Marine snipers can't wait to get enough rounds through their barrels to punch it out to .300 Win Mag, but, that was years ago.  I have no idea what's being used out there, now-and I'd like to know!



The M40 series is 7.62x51, none were ever fielded in .300winmag, that I'm aware of.

Chad


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## arizonaguide (Nov 24, 2008)

That does bring up a SIMILAR .300 winmag question:

I'm looking at a Rem700 purchase, but I'm torn between the .300 winmag, or the .338winmag (not Laupa).

I wonder which is the cheapest/most ready avail ammo?  Was the .300winmag a VERY popular military round, and is there a lot of MilSurplus ammo(like the .30-06), etc? From what Chad mentions it doesn't sound like it.

Is the .300 _so little used _that it's not that much different (price/avail)? 

*deleted* (redundant info. about Dad's .300 Weatherby).

So, whattda think: .300 or .338?


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## koz (Nov 24, 2008)

What is your dad going to shoot/hunt?  I think the .300 winmag will be slightly easier to find ammo but in AK lots of people use the 338 win mag so I don't think you'll have a hard time finding it either.  I don't think there's much surplus ammo for the 300 win mag. 

300 Win mag runs about $35 per 20
338 Win mag runs about $40 per 20
338 Laupa runs about $80 per 20 - and it's hard to find.  

Personally I like the extra energy delivered by the 338win mag.  Some people will say go with the 338 Ultra (Rem Ultra Mag) but it's kinda hard to find ammo and has a pretty sharp recoil. 
My opinion - 338 win mag.


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## koz (Nov 24, 2008)

dusty said:


> I still shoot a Rem 700 (short stroke) with a Shillen barrel at about half-life, an Arnold Jewell trigger, a good bed, with a Leupold 10x.
> 
> The last time I shot for score with some civvies out in OK, I noticed a preponderence of odd ammo and range finders: some 6.5 Grendel, .264, .338 Lapua etc.
> 
> ...



There are some units using the .338 Laupa for long range shots.  6.5 Grendel has been tested for 1000m and closer but is on the back burner right now.  
The Army in their infinite wisdom decided that the Knight's M110 SASS was better than the M24 and have started the transition.  IMO the M110 is a POS and there have been lots of problems.  The SR25 (version 3) was better. 
There are still some M21's and M14's in the inventory and have been retrofitted with the Sage stock. 
SOF units and some line units have the Mk12, which is just a accurate 5.56 with a nice optic and OPS Inc can.  
Oh and there's always the Barrett M107/82A .50 for kicks and grins..


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## pardus (Nov 24, 2008)

People are talking about three totally different subjects here!

Sniping, long range target shooting and hunting!

Three separate subjects gentleman.


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## vicat777 (Nov 25, 2008)

Not sure about the military application anymore, but we use the Hornady TAP 168 grain match on our team.


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## arizonaguide (Nov 25, 2008)

koz said:


> ...I think the .300 winmag will be slightly easier to find ammo...
> ... I don't think there's much surplus ammo for the 300 win mag.
> 
> 300 Win mag runs about $35 per 20
> ...



Thanks Koz!
In my typical long winded/TMI way I was asking "if the 300winmag was _REALLY_ that common in the military?", and if so, did that make the ammo a LOT cheaper/available?  (like the .30-06)  
You answered my question perfectly, and I was thinking along those exact same (.338wm) lines.

I have to get a replacement for a .300 Weatherby...but need something less than $60-80/box.
Thanks again.


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## pardus (Nov 25, 2008)

It's simple, if you are hunting people at long range you need a .338 laupa mag, shorter range  .308.


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## arizonaguide (Nov 25, 2008)

Chad said:


> The M40 series is 7.62x51, none were ever fielded in .300winmag, that I'm aware of.
> 
> Chad



FWIW, I did find (researched) some good (Rem700 based historical) info, if anyone's interested and doesn't know already. 
You sniper types probably already have this tatoo'd, but for the rest of us...(Remington 700 fans):


From what I've learned, the Marine M40 uses 7.62X51 "short action" and couldn't handle being "punched out" (rechambered) to a longer cartridge (.300 winmag, etc.) anyway. You'd have to start with the complete "long action" (M24 type) rig.  
So, what I get is the M24 can be converted to the larger(longer) rounds, the M40 cannot. 

The Weapon System Matrix Manager for the M24 was Major John Mende and he explains that the long action choice actually had nothing to do with the ability to convert to a .300 Win Mag, but rather the .30-06. The rifle was intended to be chambered in the .30-06 as the -06 was a type classified munition for the Army unlike the .300 WM at the time. They wanted to have a high power load for the .30-06 eventually developed. As development of the system was moving forward they discovered that there was not enough .30-06 ammo in a single lot in the Army's inventory to test and develop the system so they quickly changed to the 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Win) and left the action the same(long) as there was not enough time for the manufacturers of the stock and floorplate to make the change to short action. They also fully believed they would later do a product improvement update and convert all the M24's to .30-06. The fact that they could convert them to .300 WM / .338L was an unexpected benefit to the SF groups (of the M24) and was never actually "designed into" the system. And, it's still unclear to me exactly how much conversion to .300wm has occured outside the SF community, but apparently not enough to cause "a lot of surpluss ammo" to exist in the marketplace...as exists with .308 and .30-06.
(that was MY big question)

M24 UPDATE (03/11/06)
The M24 & M118LR(.308) combination has proven itself very effective during OIF and Afghanistan. There have been kills made beyond 1100 meters, though those are not standard fair. But under 800 meters the system has proven everything that was hoped for. The US Army has accepted a new sniper rifle known as the XM110 which is a 308 semi auto built by Knights Armament.  One thing is clear, the field reports on the M24 have been very good and there was a strong outpouring of support for the M24 from field snipers when news of the XM110 was spread.

(This Brief History was "compiled" from various sources, so if anyone "in the know" needs to correct any of this, then PLEASE do!)


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