# An Example of Utterly Useless "Intelligence"



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2011)

Hm, according to "intelligence," it looks like there might be an attack on September 11th of this year.  Who knew? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44444344/ns/us_news-security/

Better watch out, the threat is "credible" and "specific."

The "credibility:"
-unnamed "U.S. officials"
-The reliability if the sources was unknown.
-specific threat information came in "very, very recently," but no one will say exactly when

The "specifics"
-the threat "so far" was a 5 to 6 on a scale of 10.
 -Intelligence from Pakistan indicated the threat might involve car bombs and might target bridges or tunnels
 -The intelligence was not specific about who might carry out the attack and what the targets might be
 -Three unidentified people may be tied to the threat information, but it was uncertain where they were or if they exist

So, to sum up, the "intelligence" we have is that someone, maybe in Pakistan, might be interested in attacking someone or something, somewhere in the U.S., at some time around a politically significant date. Maybe. We don't know.

YOU THINK???? 

If this is what passes for "intelligence" these days, I need to get out of the business altogether. This kind of thing serves only two purposes- top cover for elected and appointed officials ("See? We told you something was going to happen, you can't blame me!") and serves the ends of the terrorists- we're terrorizing ourselves now, they don't even have to do it anymore.

Taking precautions is always a good idea. Overreacting to mere rumor- which is all that is conveyed by the article- is counterproductive.


----------



## TH15 (Sep 8, 2011)

Just read this and had to shake my head. Everytime I see the terms "unnamed source" or "official speaking on the condition of anonymity" I want to punch walls.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 8, 2011)

Wait a minute an "Intelligence Officer" is finely admitting that "Intelligence is Utterly Useless":-"

Intelligenceness!


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2011)

JAB said:


> Wait a minute an "Intelligence Officer" is finely admitting that "Intelligence is Utterly Useless":-"
> 
> Intelligenceness!



Now, now, don't misquote me brother, this is "an example of utterly useless intelligence."  My intelligenceness, on the other hand, is 100% accurate, timely, pertinent, and useful.  ;)


----------



## JBS (Sep 8, 2011)

Sir, I felt this way when we rolled out the color alert system.

Yellow, orange, red. Total bullshit.

That color code nonsense also came out around the same time we started using that "Homeland" rhetoric. Prior to that, in this country, it was ALWAYS "domestic", as in "we must set our domestic agenda", or, "we must look after our domestic security". The term "Homeland" sounded like it came right out of a novel describing language used by some fictional fascist regime.

I challenge anyone to find American leaders referring to policy using the term "Homeland" prior to 9/11.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 8, 2011)

Mara, I have no doubt your Intelligenceness is leeps and bounds past the MI dudes I met today.:eek:;)

But I do agree this "Intel" is about jacked the f*ck up.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2011)

JBS said:


> Sir, I felt this way when we rolled out the color alert system.
> 
> Yellow, orange, red. Total bullshit.
> 
> ...


 
I meant to add an analogy to the color-code system in my initial post, I'm glad you brought it up.


----------



## Chopstick (Sep 8, 2011)

Can you have clip art for those of us that love the pretty colors?


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 8, 2011)

Yeah this is complete and utter BS. I could have told you the same thing.


----------



## Viper1 (Sep 8, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Yeah this is complete and utter BS. I could have told you the same thing.



Agreed....with possible targets being oh i don't know.....ALL the football stadiums that have a game on Opening day...which happens to be 11 SEP :confused:  Why would we put ourselves in such a position?


----------



## AWP (Sep 8, 2011)

I think our Intel community has ADHD:

"We have a report that Al Qaeda plans to OH, LET'S RIDE BIKES!"


----------



## Dame (Sep 8, 2011)

Chopstick said:


> Can you have clip art for those of us that love the pretty colors?


Sorry Chop. They've recently replaced the pretty colors. New toy is the National Terrorism Advisory System, or "NTAS." From the NTAS site:


> *Q1 – What will happen to the color-coded advisory system?*
> 
> A - The new National Terrorism Advisory System replaces the Homeland Security Advisory System that has been in place since 2002. The National Terrorism Advisory System, or NTAS, will include information specific to the particular credible threat, and will not use a color-coded scale.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 8, 2011)

JBS said:


> Sir, I felt this way when we rolled out the color alert system.
> 
> Yellow, orange, red. Total bullshit.
> 
> ...



If I'm to be quite honest, the _perception_ around the world now is that America is borderline tolitarian now and has lost their marbles in general.


----------



## Dame (Sep 9, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> This kind of thing serves only two purposes- top cover for elected and appointed officials ("See? We told you something was going to happen, you can't blame me!") and serves the ends of the terrorists- we're terrorizing ourselves now, they don't even have to do it anymore.
> 
> Taking precautions is always a good idea. Overreacting to mere rumor- which is all that is conveyed by the article- is counterproductive.



Sir, you're assuming that the purpose of putting out this "intelligence" is to be productive in the first place. It does serve a third purpose. To _look_ productive.
1. Put out a rumor that something might happen.
2. Make sure to conduct lots of activity around said something.
3. When nothing happens (or even if it does) take credit for the "prevention" or "warning" as the case may be.
4. Insist to Congress that more tax payer dollars/layers of control are needed to continue vigilance.

ETA:
 


Marauder06 said:


> Now, now, don't misquote me brother, this is "an example of utterly useless intelligence." My intelligenceness, on the other hand, is 100% accurate, timely, pertinent, and useful. ;)


No wonder you say you've pissed too many people off. ;)


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 9, 2011)

But that said, to say you've prevented it to Congress would require some solid evidence, right?


----------



## Dame (Sep 9, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> But that said, to say you've prevented it to Congress would require some solid evidence, right?


Hahahahahaha!


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 9, 2011)

I'll take that to mean either "no" or "Congress are clowns"


----------



## policemedic (Sep 9, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> I'll take that to mean either "no" or "Congress are clowns"



Yes.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 9, 2011)

If nothing happens dear leader can claim he foiled another plot.
If they try something, dear leader can claim credit for telling the FBI to arrest said morons.
Politics.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 9, 2011)

I was surprised they even released what they did.


----------



## JBS (Sep 9, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> If I'm to be quite honest, the _perception_ around the world now is that America is borderline tolitarian now and has lost their marbles in general.


Some of us have that perception here as well.


----------



## x SF med (Sep 9, 2011)

Here are the real threats:


----------



## RetPara (Sep 9, 2011)

This whole thread is a perfect example of the paradox of warning.......


----------



## LibraryLady (Sep 10, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> ... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44444344/ns/us_news-security/ ...



= Slow Day in the life of the MSM.

Nothing to see here, move along.

LL


----------



## Headshot (Sep 10, 2011)

It's like reading a horoscope..."Something will happen to you today, it may be good or it may be bad.  It could possibly involve another person, or it could just be you.  You will also find yourself to be happy or sad today, or you may at times just not GAS either way.  In spite of these circumstances you will find yourself where you are at any given time of the day.  You may also find yourself thinking about things at various times."


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 10, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> If I'm to be quite honest, the _perception_ around the world now is that America is borderline tolitarian now and has lost their marbles in general.


Agree, but the irony of the world getting pissy because we are finally acting like the socialist country they thought we should be.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 12, 2011)

JBS said:


> Some of us have that perception here as well.



That's actually quite nice to know because often I've noticed a lot of Americans- on forums, I must admit- have the "we MUST be secure no matter the cost" attitude going on. Which IMO is wrong.


----------



## JBS (Sep 13, 2011)

Not only do I think that's an unreasonable expectation because of its implications on personal liberty, I also believe it it is an impossible goal in a free and open society.


----------



## QC (Sep 13, 2011)

The world isn't risk free. So how much are you willing to pay to minimize a diminishing risk and one which was statistically low?
How much "security theatre" are you willing to indulge in, which the new 9/11 threat IMO definitely is?


----------



## Ben Dare (Sep 15, 2011)

Kraut783 said:


> I was surprised they even released what they did.


its not what they release but whom they release it to... my opinion - complete silence - would never work; chaff otherwise


----------



## interrogat (Sep 24, 2011)

(OPE/JIPOE+ISR) + (F3EAD+TRAP) = Happy Warfighter.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 24, 2011)

interrogat said:


> (OPE/JIPOE+ISR) + (F3EAD+TRAP) = Happy Warfighter.



I got the rest, what's TRAP?  The only thing I know it to stand for is "tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel" and that doesn't seem to work in context.


----------



## Brill (Sep 24, 2011)

Prob ref to honey trap.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 24, 2011)

lindy said:


> Prob ref to honey trap.



lol



interrogat said:


> (OPE/JIPOE+ISR) + (F3EAD+TRAP) = Happy Warfighter.



OK so we've got Operational Preparation of the Environment, Joint Intelligence Prep of the Environment, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance, Find/Fix/Finish/Exploit/Analyze/Disseminate... and I've got nothing for TRAP.  I would add though that some will say that OPE, JIPOE, and ISR are all elements of F3EAD anyway and you don't need to list them separately.


----------



## AWP (Sep 24, 2011)

I see the Intel Geeks have a thread the rest of us must tap out of like the Troll and other Bravos with their precision shooting threads.

Time to go rally the Comm/ IT Geeks.


----------



## JBS (Sep 24, 2011)

LOL


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2011)

You guys have too many acronyms. You should fire the guys who make them up, would save you billions per year.


----------



## QC (Sep 24, 2011)

Second that...and you can't understand us! Hehehe.


----------



## Ben Dare (Sep 24, 2011)

TRAP = Tell Rambo to Adhere to Plans.... I think!


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 25, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> I see the Intel Geeks have a thread the rest of us must tap out of like the Troll and other Bravos with their precision shooting threads.
> 
> Time to go rally the Comm/ IT Geeks.


Or the medics! I say rally the medics. We are the best at everything, including your mom, and yeah everyone enjoys reading about others problems.


----------



## AWP (Sep 25, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Or the medics! I say rally the medics. We are the best at everything, including your mom, and yeah everyone enjoys reading about others problems.



You have an entire sub-forum. Go sit down.


----------



## interrogat (Sep 25, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> I got the rest, what's TRAP? The only thing I know it to stand for is "tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel" and that doesn't seem to work in context.


Timeliness, Relevanace, Accuracy, Predictability

I would agree JIPOE/IPB is a part of F3EAD, but I was thinking more along the lines of lethal/non-lethal effects-based targeting once you're already boots on ground.

Anyway,
\\end nerd\\


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 25, 2011)

Which is ironic considering how long it took people to find out what it means ;)


----------



## jdinf237 (Sep 25, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> I meant to add an analogy to the color-code system in my initial post, I'm glad you brought it up.



Sir if possible could you send me contact info on the JIB my email is <edit>

thank you


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 25, 2011)

jdinf237 said:


> Sir if possible could you send me contact info on the JIB my email is <edit>
> 
> thank you



That's not really how it works.

I'm no longer in the unit and the only person there I keep in contact with is one of the recruiters.  If you want to talk to him about trying out for the unit, use the "private communication" (also known as private messaging) function here on the site to send me a message outlining your skills and experience.  If I think you're the type of person the JIB is looking for, I'll put you in contact with the recruiter.  Of course, there's nothing stopping you from looking up the information on your own...

Also, if you're planning on being a member here for any length of time, you may want to refer to the new user stickies, particularly the one concerning intro posts.

I edited out your name and email address from your last message, that kind of thing is better exchanged via PC than posted where everyone can see it.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 25, 2011)

interrogat said:


> Timeliness, Relevanace, Accuracy, Predictability
> 
> I would agree JIPOE/IPB is a part of F3EAD, but I was thinking more along the lines of lethal/non-lethal effects-based targeting once you're already boots on ground.
> 
> ...


 
Is TRAP doctrine?  I have a vague memory of it, but I'm not sure from where.

Doesn't F3EAD already apply to both lethal and non-lethal targeting?


----------



## Brill (Sep 25, 2011)

interrogat said:


> Timeliness, Relevanace, Accuracy, Predictability



Sounds like POL don't it?


----------



## Brill (Sep 25, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Is TRAP doctrine? I have a vague memory of it, but I'm not sure from where.
> 
> Doesn't F3EAD already apply to both lethal and* non-lethal targeting*?



Nope: they call that shit Find, Fix, Arrest, and some other crap that makes a cool power point slide.  I really don't like that crap as it shifts the focus of WHAT is actually being briefed to HOW it's briefed.

I guess I'm just getting old and crotchety.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 26, 2011)

lindy said:


> Nope: they call that shit Find, Fix, Arrest, and some other crap that makes a cool power point slide. I really don't like that crap as it shifts the focus of WHAT is actually being briefed to HOW it's briefed.
> 
> I guess I'm just getting old and crotchety.



Interesting.  I came from a community where F3EAD was used as the targeting methodology, and it applied to both lethal and non-lethal.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Sep 26, 2011)

Wow, which rock did all you Harry Potter types crawl out from underneath of? I haven't seen so much geek since that time I got drunk and fell asleep in Hagley Park and woke up to some LARP homos running around hitting each other with handbags.

However in one of you can come through with high resolution pics of the Scarlett Johansen leaked photos goodness I will take back my comments about geekness and elevate you to nerds.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> .
> 
> However in one of you can come through with high resolution pics of the Scarlett Johansen leaked photos goodness I will take back my comments about geekness and elevate you to nerds.



I must have missed this one.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 26, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> Wow, which rock did all you Harry Potter types crawl out from underneath of? I haven't seen so much geek since that time I got drunk and fell asleep in Hagley Park and woke up to some LARP homos running around hitting each other with handbags.
> ...



F3EAD was invented by ops types, and has become doctrine in the U.S.  You ought to check it out ;)

F3EAD = true ops/intel fusion, was invented for lethal targeting but can be applied to non-lethal as well.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Sep 26, 2011)

I understand the theory behind it well enough from Combat Tracking and I'm a big proponent of working that way.   That said 1st rule is never miss an opportunity to shit on the Int types lest they become convinced they are the brain to my pinky :)


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 26, 2011)

I've been working on an F3EAD paper with a (non-intel) friend of mine, I think I might have posted a draft version somewhere on the site.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Sep 26, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> I've been working on an F3EAD paper with a (non-intel) friend of mine, I think I might have posted a draft version somewhere on the site.



If you can find the link I'd be interested in reading it.  A search is bringing me back here and a to a couple of other threads that do not contain it.


----------



## goon175 (Sep 27, 2011)

Out of curiosity, has the "D' on the end of F3EAD always been there, or did that get added? I have only ever heard of F3EA...


----------

