# I'm a support guy, how do I land a job in SOF?



## Marauder06 (Oct 23, 2006)

_Q:  I’m a support guy, how do I land a job in a SOF organization?_

*A:  First  do your homework, then contact your branch and the recruiter for the specific organization and ask for an application.*

*Do your homework.*  Find out which SOF organizations have support positions that are a fit for your MOS and skill level, your experience, your physical fitness level, and in some cases, your gender.  You can do most of this through open-source, online search engines like Google.  SOF websites like this one are also great sources of information as you can seek advice from personnel who have actually been in those units.  Keep in mind though that the person with the most up-to-date information on openings in the unit is probably the current recruiter; SOF organizations are constantly changing so unit-specific information quickly becomes outdated.

After you do your research, *contact your branch and the recruiter for the specific unit and ask for an application.*  Some SOF organizations, such as Special Forces, have no recruiting process for support troops, so assignment to SF Groups is made by respective branches “needs-of-the-Army” just like an assignment to 2ID, 1st Cav, or any other conventional assignment.  So an assignment to an SF Group for a support guy could be as easy as a call to his or her branch (btw, SF should REALLY think about changing this).  I include “her” in there because there are many SOF support assignments that are non-gender-specific.

Some other SOF organizations have unique application processes or “assessments” that gauge an individual’s potential to succeed in that particular unit.  Many SOF units keep the specifics of their assessments deliberately vague, others are completely forthcoming about what to expect.  Your recruiter will fill you in on those details when/if you make it that far in the application process.  Whatever the organization, it always pays to make sure you are in top physical shape and are fully read up on current doctrine for your field before applying for a SOF assignment.  

It also pays to be persistent.  If you can’t get into the unit you want “right now,” keep trying.  Many times SOF units may not have a position for you at this time, but with more experience (or when they have an opening) they  could tap you.  Good luck!  Remember, don’t be afraid to ask.


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## EATIII (Oct 23, 2006)

Mara,good post.To some this is old school,Keep up the Incite to make this a strong Foundation!


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## AWP (Oct 23, 2006)

Guess you want a Guard one, mara?


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## Marauder06 (Oct 23, 2006)

Freefalling said:


> Guess you want a Guard one, mara?



I think it would be great if you were to share your experience with us.  You have some very interesting stories.


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## AWP (Oct 23, 2006)

Okay, fine, you get....5 million points. 

(Short story is at the bottom and I'm open for questions).

For the National Guard it is rather simple: New enlistees contact a recruiter who will then contact the unit and see what slots are available. Say you want to be a Parachute Rigger and a slot is available but the rigger school doesn't start for another 7 months. You won't leave for Basic for another 4 months (Basic + jumps school before AIT). 

Say the slot isn't available. You can look at another slot/ MOS, wait for your preferred slot to open up (may take awhile), or go elsewhere.

Prior service? Contact a recruiter or the unit directly. They may or may not have a slot for your MOS and pay grade. You MAY have to take a bust to get into the unit. You may have to crosstrain to be MOS qualified (which can take years depending upon your new MOS, especially Intel).

So, see a recruiter or contact the unit. Don't be surprised to wait for a school or to be asked to take a bust to get into the unit. DO work your ass off and remember that your customer is a "cool guy". Want to do "cool guy shit"? Go to the cool guy school and get your long tab.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 30, 2006)

*SOF logistics support*

A rather lengthy open-source article on SOF support, written by a major in 7th Group, here.


*On 11 April 2005, Lieutenant General Philip R. Kensinger, Jr., Commanding General of the Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, approved the Army Special Operations Forces (ARSOF) Logistics Transformation Concept. The concept calls for the creation of five regionally aligned Special Forces group support battalions, three Ranger battalion support companies, and a Special Operations sustainment brigade to replace the 528th Special Operations Support Battalion (Airborne). As the planning for implementing this transformation began, an important requirement became clear: the need to share the lessons learned and the training programs and unique capabilities developed by the 528th Special Operations Support Battalion (SOSB) over its 18 years of providing unparalleled combat service support (CSS) and combat health support (CHS) to Army and joint SOF throughout the world.*

I left 5th Group just before they moved from the Group Support Company concept to the Group Support Battalion.  For those of you in Group or in the Rnager Regiment, how are these new support formations working out for you?


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## AWP (Dec 7, 2006)

*Support Jobs in SF*

Support jobs in a Special Forces Battalion.

Many jobs exist within a SF Battalion but not all are 18 series guys. Without getting into the organization, here are some of the jobs in an SF BN. I left off the MOS codes. 

Supply – It is what it is and you'll get Pathfinder along the way.

Parachute rigger – Pack chutes and door bundles, rig helos for sling loads. Some slots exist for MFF.

Vehicle mechanics – It is what it is.

NBC NCO: Maintain the Pro masks and conduct training.

Various commo jobs: You can do radio, telecomm, computers, and satellite/ phone work in SF.

Electronic maintenance: several MOS' are found here. You'll fix and repair radios and computers.

Intel analysts, signals intercept, counter intelligence, all are found in an SF BN. here's one job: http://www.vmi.edu/archives/Adams_Center/CookRJ/CookRJ_T001.asp

PA – One Physician’s assistant per BN.

Flight Doc – One flight surgeon per BN.

Cook – It is what it is.

Other jobs exist at the Group Support level. AD and NG will have the same MTOE (or should in theory). Remember that if truly want to do "cool guy shit" then you need to go to a "cool guy school" and pick up a long tab. The jobs listed above are earning CABs in Iraq and Afghanistan though.


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## pardus (Mar 3, 2022)




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## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

pardus said:


>


It's great to give support types the basics of weapons, combat med, etc., but they should have those basic skills coming in.  A far better use of time is to screen and train them before they get to the unit, **in the unique ways they will apply their MOS skills in support of the SOF mission**.  "This is how you do a lov-vis LOGPAC."  "This is how you'll do IPB in support of an ODB."  "I know how you were taught to set up retrans, but due to our mission set this is what you need to learn now."

I'd rather the support guys train and maintain proficiency on support guy stuff and the operators do operator stuff.


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## AWP (Mar 3, 2022)

That would get a Love, but I refuse to use that stupid looking, hearty-eyed, teenage girl emoji. Embarrassing.


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## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> It's great to give support types the basics of weapons, combat med, etc., but they should have those basic skills coming in.  A far better use of time is to screen and train them before they get to the unit, **in the unique ways they will apply their MOS skills in support of the SOF mission**.  "This is how you do a lov-vis LOGPAC."  "This is how you'll do IPB in support of an ODB."  "I know how you were taught to set up retrans, but due to our mission set this is what you need to learn now."
> 
> I'd rather the support guys train and maintain proficiency on support guy stuff and the operators do operator stuff.



They should (have those skills), but often don't because the units from which they come are M-F/9-5 (not really, but you get the point).  And the different branches have different 'standards' and expectations for SOF support billets.

RE: Pat Mac, he's the shit.  One of the many things I love about living where I do is access to him, John "Shrek" McPhee, Larry Vickers, VTac, etc.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> They should (have those skills), but often don't because the units from which they come are M-F/9-5 (not really, but you get the point).  And the different branches have different 'standards' and expectations for SOF support billets.
> 
> RE: Pat Mac, he's the shit.  One of the many things I love about living where I do is access to him, John "Shrek" McPhee, Larry Vickers, VTac, etc.


I don't know him, and I applaud his efforts to get his support guys spun up.

But this goes to the need to have a USASOC or even SOCOM-wide assessment, selection, and training program for enablers.  That training isn't dependent upon individual units, or even individuals within units.

Maybe they have something now?  I left the SOF world in 2009.


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## AWP (Mar 3, 2022)

Hell, a basic records screen and not allowing anyone fresh from AIT would be an improvement.


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## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't know him, and I applaud his efforts to get his support guys spun up.
> 
> *But this goes to the need to have a USASOC or even SOCOM-wide assessment, selection, and training program for enablers. * That training isn't dependent upon individual units, or even individuals within units.
> 
> Maybe they have something now?  I left the SOF world in 2009.



Yes, this.  Hard agree.

Regarding Pat McNamara, on a scale of 1-10, he's a 15.  Imagine someone hopped up on caffeine, coke, and uppers, but on none of those.  Super smart, great instructor.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 3, 2022)

An area I have always had was for a support guy tell the world they are Recon, SF, SEAL, etc. Even today, when I go to LeJeune for 2d Recon Association get together, and we are at BN for a ceremony we conduct with them, I look out at the 3 Companies and Force company. They are small in number. I then look over at HQs and they equal at least 2 of the companies. But listening to them outside the area, they are Recon Marines.

Remember the BN runs and HQs personnel couldn't keep up. Same when I left the Corps and went over to Army SF. Don't get me wrong, we couldn't get our missions done without support personnel but be physically and mentally fit when you report in. Also hit the ground running in knowing your job. But don't give the impression to outsiders that you are us.


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## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> An area I have always had was for a support guy tell the world they are Recon, SF, SEAL, etc. Even today, when I go to LeJeune for 2d Recon Association get together, and we are at BN for a ceremony we conduct with them, I look out at the 3 Companies and Force company. They are small in number. I then look over at HQs and they equal at least 2 of the companies. But listening to them outside the area, they are Recon Marines.
> 
> Remember the BN runs and HQs personnel couldn't keep up. Same when I left the Corps and went over to Army SF. Don't get me wrong, we couldn't get our missions done without support personnel but be physically and mentally fit when you report in. Also hit the ground running in knowing your job. But don't give the impression to outsiders that you are us.



I was always very careful to this point.  I was SOF support for NSW (NSWU-4); in the reserve, I was a corpsman attached to recon (4th recon batt), enough to earn the 'SOF support' tag here (never applied for it), but never claimed to be a SARC/SOIDC or SEAL.  That didn't mean I did not have to earn my place with them, though.

But as a 'support guy' I never had the us/them feeling, it was always we/us.  Maybe because I took the time and made the effort to be useful.  They let me do some cool-guy training with them...on the range, fast roping, helo casting, etc.  Those that did have the us/them thing, they were usually dicks regardless of the badges they wore.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 3, 2022)

Loved you "DOCs", you kept us in Terpin Hydrate (For those that don't know, that is GI gin). Ever unit I was with there was always the feeling of us/we because we had to work side by side to get the mission done. My complaint was not being happy with your place in the chain and when you got home you were not the armor but you wore our title. Those in support worked hard for their MOS and the opportunity to be in a unit so be proud of it. Those that went through the pipeline worked hard to be where they are.

Back in the day, I know I am old, all that were assigned to the Army SF wore the Green Beret but only those that had the "S" prefix to their MOS could wear the Flash on it. Problem was that no one outside a unit knew the difference between a cook and an operator. SF had to make the change so that no support wore the beret. Now all support either wear a Maroon beret showing they are airborne or a field cap.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 3, 2022)

DevilDoc - My understanding now is that all Corpsmen that are assigned to Recon have to go through the pipeline. Also have to take advanced medical training. Maybe that is why we felt you were a Marine and not Navy. Each MOS in an SF team also goes through the pipeline.


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## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> DevilDoc - My understanding now is that all Corpsmen that are assigned to Recon have to go through the pipeline. Also have to take advanced medical training. Maybe that is why we felt you were a Marine and not Navy. Each MOS in an SF team also goes through the pipeline.



When I was in the pipeline was broken by school billets: now you go to dive; you might go to airborne in 6 months; your might go to XXX school in a year.  In between, you were back at your unit.  Now it is indeed a solid, uninterrupted pipeline.

To THAT point...in order to keep a toe dipped in the waters, I am in charge of getting a clinical training program with my institution for Navy SOIDCs and 18Ds, both those in the pipeline/schoolhouse at Bragg as well as the established providers at MARSOC and Group.  I am talking with the Senior Enlisted Advisor (for the Navy personnel) with MARSOC tomorrow; and already well in the process for the guys at Bragg.


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## AWP (Mar 3, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> Now all support either wear a Maroon beret showing they are airborne or a field cap.



Unless something changed, Support wears a maroon beret regardless of airborne qualification status. That started in...99 I think. Again, I don't know if that changed or not.


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## Cookie_ (Mar 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't know him, and I applaud his efforts to get his support guys spun up.
> 
> But this goes to the need to have a USASOC or even SOCOM-wide assessment, selection, and training program for enablers.  That training isn't dependent upon individual units, or even individuals within units.
> 
> Maybe they have something now?  I left the SOF world in 2009.



I can only speak for my unit, so things might be different on the active side, but we've started to conduct a "selection" process for new guys and gals.

I put that in quotes because if someone doesn't pass we haven't (and probably never will due to manning) gotten approval to deny them the slot.

We can just heavily recommend they 4187 out of the unit if they don't get up to standard.





AWP said:


> Unless something changed, Support wears a maroon beret regardless of airborne qualification status. That started in...99 I think. Again, I don't know if that changed or not.



Still berets. There's a bit of a "legs can't wear the beret" stuff that pops up from time to time, but the NCOs squash that.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> Unless something changed, Support wears a maroon beret regardless of airborne qualification status. That started in...99 I think. Again, I don't know if that changed or not.


Yep.  In most circumstances, headgear is organizational wear.  If you're in an Airborne unit you wear a maroon beret regardless of whether you're Airborne qualified or not.  If you're a Ranger and tabless, you still get a tan one.

That said, some organizations make exceptions to those rules.  When I was in the 160th we weren't supposed to wear the maroon beret until we finished Green Platoon, but I don't remember that being enforced.

Of course, that was a long time ago and maybe things are different now.


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## AWP (Mar 3, 2022)

It was better when legs couldn’t wear the beret.


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## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> It was better when legs couldn’t wear the beret.



Y'all and your berets.  In my service you weren't special unless you earned bell bottom denims....

Scallywags old man grumble grumble....


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## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> It was better when legs couldn’t wear the beret.


lol ;)

I was Airborne qualified in 1992 and didn't get into an Airborne unit until 2003, so it as never an issue for me.  But I always thought that all organizational accoutrements belonged to everyone assigned to that organization and never let my guys arbitrarily restrict anyone from them.  Sometimes a hat is just a hat.  

Hell when I was an infantry PL, we had garrison caps with GLIDERS on them.  I'm glad no OG 101st guy told me I couldn't wear that cap until I was glider qual'd, cause guess what ol' Mara is definitely not doing EVER?  Well, lots of things but among them is doing glider shit.  (the patch also had a parachute on it, which I always thought was weird since the 101st was "Airborne" in name only).


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## LimaPanther (Mar 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> lol ;)
> 
> I was Airborne qualified in 1992 and didn't get into an Airborne unit until 2003, so it as never an issue for me.  But I always thought that all organizational accoutrements belonged to everyone assigned to that organization and never let my guys arbitrarily restrict anyone from them.  Sometimes a hat is just a hat.
> 
> ...


I wore that in the 60s. Still have it. Enlisted wore the patch on the left side and officers on the right. Infantry officers had blue piping along the top edge of the cap. That was a sign you were airborne, along with bloused spit shined boots and your kakis. We also sewed in a silver dollar coin behind the patch. Ever been in a bar and slapped alongside the head with one? By the way, I wore it when the 101st was still Airborne. 1st/501st. Went to the 3rd/187th, 101st in the 70s and wore a dark navy blue beret.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> I wore that in the 60s. Still have it. Enlisted wore the patch on the left side and officers on the right. Infantry officers had blue piping along the top edge of the cap. That was a sign you were airborne, along with bloused spit shined boots and your kakis. We also sewed in a silver dollar coin behind the patch. Ever been in a bar and slapped alongside the head with one? By the way, I wore it when the 101st was still Airborne. 1st/50st.


1/327 here.  But I wasn't in it until the mid-90s.  :)


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## “The Old Man” (Mar 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> Unless something changed, Support wears a maroon beret regardless of airborne qualification status. That started in...99 I think. Again, I don't know if that changed or not.


I seem to recall, with zero disrespect intended. The term “red hat support bitch” being used. In a not so complimentary manner. Once upon a long time ago.
   That being said. I never understood the whole division of us/them. While I was in the Army.
   I was a part of the only “ad hoc” Special Medical Unit. That the Army ever deployed. As well as being in a unit that only ever had 18 members.
   Lastly, to the best of my knowledge. There has only ever been one other member of SS. That was a former USAMU unit member.
   I got to do some really way cool shit back in the day. All because I answered a voluntary call one afternoon. While in AIT as a 91B Combat Medic with an H4 enlistment option for SF.
   Yes, I opted out of a guaranteed SF contract in 1979. During the time when there wasn’t an A&S. I had went through an Army SF JROTC program. At Goose Creek High School just outside of Charleston SC.
   Our Senior Army Instructor was a retired SF Officer, LTC Robert Luttrell. I had a mentor by the name of MSGT. Gary Mitchell. He was the manager of the Fine’s Men’s Store. That was in the mall on Rivers Avenue. In Charleston SC during the late 1970’s and into the 1980’s.
  Please pardon my lengthy response.

In retrospect I feel I need to state. That I do not mean to detract from the original question. Nor present any disrespect whatsoever. Toward any Green Tab or Brown Tab members on this site. I am not really anyone special at all. Although I got to do some special things.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 5, 2022)

Tinman6 said:


> I am not really anyone special at all. Although I got to do some special things.


We all play a role when it comes to the mission. Back in the day, when I was young and dumb, I wore my CIB and thought if you didn't have one you weren't worth shit. Then I came to realize that it takes at least 10 soldiers to support me. Of course, there are more than 10 but that was a saying. Someone had to fly me in. Someone had to work on that aircraft. Someone had to feed me and pay me. When I got hit, someone worked on me to make sure I didn't die. Someone had to drive me around. Had to be able to communicate. You get the picture. Never say I'm not special, because after all, you had a role in my success


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## “The Old Man” (Mar 8, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> We all play a role when it comes to the mission. Back in the day, when I was young and dumb, I wore my CIB and thought if you didn't have one you weren't worth shit. Then I came to realize that it takes at least 10 soldiers to support me. Of course, there are more than 10 but that was a saying. Someone had to fly me in. Someone had to work on that aircraft. Someone had to feed me and pay me. When I got hit, someone worked on me to make sure I didn't die. Someone had to drive me around. Had to be able to communicate. You get the picture. Never say I'm not special, because after all, you had a role in my success


If you ever went tits up in a biologically non-permissive battle space. My team Mates and I. Would have gladly roped in or whatever way necessary. To recover you during a time of distress👍
We were all flight medics.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 8, 2022)

I have a lot of respect for medivacs. They came in many a time, under harsh fire to pull out the wounded. I wasn't pulled out under fire but for those pilots that use to extract my team under fire I tip my hat to. They had balls. Any chopper pilot that is willing to fly in while getting shot at deserves a free drink when you see them.


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## Devildoc (Mar 8, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> I have a lot of respect for medivacs. They came in many a time, under harsh fire to pull out the wounded. I wasn't pulled out under fire but for those pilots that use to extract my team under fire I tip my hat to. They had balls. Any chopper pilot that is willing to fly in while getting shot at deserves a free drink when you see them.



My dad's last tour in Vietnam (of 3) was as S2 chief of HMLA-167.  He had dozens of pictures of helicopters riddled with bullets and damage from hot LZs.  He had a diary, I still have it, in which he wrote things like "tail number 327 returned from mission, pilot KIA." Far too many entries like that.


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## “The Old Man” (Mar 8, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> I have a lot of respect for medivacs. They came in many a time, under harsh fire to pull out the wounded. I wasn't pulled out under fire but for those pilots that use to extract my team under fire I tip my hat to. They had balls. Any chopper pilot that is willing to fly in while getting shot at deserves a free drink when you see them.


I am sure that Downtown Funky Stuff Malone would appreciate a drink now and then. I wonder how he is doing now? 
He, should be completely qualified as an HH-60 jockey by now🤔


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