# SOCS-C JACK



## buzzkill.0621 (Nov 10, 2014)

Gentlemen,

I was curious of everyone's opinion on 8071s getting their MOSs 'jack' as a tattoo.
A Recon turned CSO buddy of mine informed me that he personally doesn't have an issue with it, but some operator types may since they would say that we don't rate it. This isn't meant to seem as a whiny post, but rather a discussion topic.

My opinion is that if you go through a special pipeline to obtain an MOS you rate.


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## 0699 (Nov 11, 2014)

23 years in the Marines; I've never heard of an MOS jack.  Is it some kind of logo or badge?


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## Teufel (Nov 11, 2014)

Which jack are you referring to?  Our comm guys had a jack 

 

and our SARCs have a jack

 

Here are the recon jacks I have seen
    

I  have no problem with our comm guys getting a recon comm tattoo because that is what they are.  I don't think it's as appropriate if they haven't been to BRC though and just work in the comm shop.


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## x SF med (Nov 11, 2014)

Is it just me, or is this thread jacked up?   Yeah, I had to go there.


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## 0699 (Nov 11, 2014)

Teufel said:


> _ //Teufel's post //_


 
Thank you.

_EDIT: I had some combat jacks, but I dont think that'd make a good tattoo..._


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## medicchick (Nov 11, 2014)

0699 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> _EDIT: I had some combat jacks, but I dont think that'd make a good tattoo..._


Happy to know I have company in this mental gutter...lol


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## buzzkill.0621 (Nov 11, 2014)

@Teufel , Sir you posted the exact comm jack that I was thinking about and had no idea where to find the image.
Ours as SOCS-Cs is essentially the same, but instead of saying RECON COMM it is replaced with 8071 or SOCS-C


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## whisper88 (Nov 13, 2014)

SOCS-C not the same as Recon Comm for many reasons. The biggest being that Recon Communicators for the most part attend the same pipeline and right of passage as the team guys as well as follow on schools. The same can definitely not be said for SOC-Cs. Recon Comm guys would be more the equivalent of the COMM CSOs on an MSOT than the SOC-Cs. My advice would be that if you want to get a tattoo to show pride in your MOS come up with something original and not get something that other guys came up with for their specific communities and has history and meaning to them. That being said the debate on who can get what tattooed and who rates to wear black silkies, etc. will be a never ending silly debate. Lastly if you want a Jack that bad Recon and CSOs are always recruiting.


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## pardus (Nov 13, 2014)

whisper88 said:


> SOCS-C not the same as Recon Comm for many reasons. The biggest being that Recon Communicators for the most part attend the same pipeline and right of passage as the team guys as well as follow on schools. The same can definitely not be said for SOC-Cs. Recon Comm guys would be more the equivalent of the COMM CSOs on an MSOT than the SOC-Cs. My advice would be that if you want to get a tattoo to show pride in your MOS come up with something original and not get something that other guys came up with for their specific communities and has history and meaning to them. That being said the debate on who can get what tattooed and who rates to wear black silkies, etc. will be a never ending silly debate. Lastly if you want a Jack that bad Recon and CSOs are always recruiting.



How about you go ahead and fill this out on your profile. ASAP. Thanks.



> 2. We require members to fill out their profile before posting an introduction. The member's component and background are required. The "background field" must be filled out. You may list your military job/specialty (MOS) or units you serve(d) with. Civilian members can tell us what they do for a living.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 13, 2014)

@buzzkill.0621 , just consider this:  If you have enough doubt about a jack to ask the question here, do you really want to get something that you will feel the need to defend getting for years to come?  Bottom line, if other guys may question you about whether you rate it, do you really want it?


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## buzzkill.0621 (Nov 13, 2014)

The comm jack that was uploaded previously by Teufel wasn't the SOCS-C jack, it was just the one that I was thinking of when I created the original post.

Attached is the SOCS-C jack that is currently being used by company communicators.

@Ooh-Rah, I appreciate your feedback, but this isn't something that I would be defending, I was just trying to gather the opinions of shooters on this site
as well as fellow support personnel.

@whisper88, I understand the Recon Communicators follow the Recon operator pipeline. Trust me, I'm very interested in becoming an operator myself,
but currently there are restrictions that are out of my control preventing me from pursuing the options. Now I'm just trying to better myself as a SOCS-C
so I'll be able to support the teams as best as I can.


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## whisper88 (Nov 13, 2014)

I can guarantee that you will be defending that tatt as a SOC-C anytime it is noticed. Also I can be very interested in being lots of things. I am sure lots of the guys who never served in the military but buy the uniforms and medals from surplus stores and prance around claiming illustrious combat feats were at one time interested in actually serving. Would you want some asshole walking around in Dress Blues showing off an EGA tatt to unknowing people when he was never even a Marine? Its the same thing. I would not want something on my skin forever that I did not earn. When and if you do make thru either pipeline, I would be willing to bet that your opinions on the matter will probably change. That is all.


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## DA SWO (Nov 14, 2014)

whisper88 said:


> I can guarantee that you will be defending that tatt as a SOC-C anytime it is noticed. Also I can be very interested in being lots of things. I am sure lots of the guys who never served in the military but buy the uniforms and medals from surplus stores and prance around claiming illustrious combat feats were at one time interested in actually serving. Would you want some asshole walking around in Dress Blues showing off an EGA tatt to unknowing people when he was never even a Marine? Its the same thing. I would not want something on my skin forever that I did not earn. When and if you do make thru either pipeline, I would be willing to bet that your opinions on the matter will probably change. That is all.


Curious, what is unearned on that tatoo?
As a non-Marine I see jump wings and a headset.
Are they non-jump qualified? do the communicators stay behind; making the skull/headset combo a bad idea?


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## policemedic (Nov 14, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Curious, what is unearned on that tatoo?
> As a non-Marine I see jump wings and a headset.
> Are they non-jump qualified? do the communicators stay behind; making the skull/headset combo a bad idea?



That's a fair question, and as an Army guy I'd be interested in hearing the answer _from someone qualified to answer it. _  Until @whisper88 gets verified and sports a green tag I don't know that he's that guy.


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## whisper88 (Nov 14, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Curious, what is unearned on that tatoo?
> As a non-Marine I see jump wings and a headset.
> Are they non-jump qualified? do the communicators stay behind; making the skull/headset combo a bad idea?


SOC-Cs are not team level communicators and while they may on occasion be attached to an MSOT they are a company asset. While some SOC-Cs inadvertently get to attend jump school most do their entire rotation within the command and never jump. As I said before the proposed tattoo idea would make more sense  for the Recon communicator or the Comm CSO than a SOC-C.


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## whisper88 (Nov 14, 2014)

policemedic said:


> That's a fair question, and as an Army guy I'd be interested in hearing the answer _from someone qualified to answer it. _  Until @whisper88 gets verified and sports a green tag I don't know that he's that guy.


Anyone who is a CSO or a Recon Marine will know that my posts pass the sniff test. Since I do not "sport a green tag" on this website that deems me not "qualified" to offer advice that people with no knowledge on the subject will take seriously, I invite the other Recon Marines or CSOs on this forum to offer their opinions.


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## policemedic (Nov 14, 2014)

whisper88 said:


> Anyone who is a CSO or a Recon Marine will know that my posts pass the sniff test. Since I do not "sport a green tag" on this website that deems me not "qualified" to offer advice that people with no knowledge on the subject will take seriously, I invite the other Recon Marines or CSOs on this forum to offer their opinions.



The vetting system on this site offers those who claim special knowledge or skill sets credibility and other site members a frame of reference and context with which to evaluate posts.   You claim to be a CSO; you should understand the value of this system.

With that as background, it should be clear why--at least in my opinion--it isn't enough to know what color the boathouse is.


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## AWP (Nov 14, 2014)

Everyone, just stop.



whisper88 said:


> Anyone who is a CSO or a Recon Marine will know that my posts pass the sniff test. Since I do not "sport a green tag" on this website that deems me not "qualified" to offer advice that people with no knowledge on the subject will take seriously, I invite the other Recon Marines or CSOs on this forum to offer their opinions.


 
Short version: I understand your POV, but a sniff test is easily faked and not to be believed without another known supporting source.

Long version: We have no reason to doubt that you're a CSO, but we also have no reason to believe you. Vetting isn't mandatory, but you have to be aware if you're claiming something specific to the military people will challenge you. You aren't in General Discussion offering thoughts on politics or whatever, you're working from a position of implied authority or expertise. This is the digital equivilent of someone in uniform without badges or rank telling others what to do. Your information may be right, but are you right? I can fake enough SF or Ranger knowledge to fake my way through some conversations, but that would make me a fraud and a liar. Without someone we know to vouch for your information (or you) then we have no basis on which to trust you.

This isn't a personal attack, we just don't know who you are.


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## DA SWO (Nov 14, 2014)

whisper88 said:


> SOC-Cs are not team level communicators and while they may on occasion be attached to an MSOT they are a company asset. While some SOC-Cs inadvertently get to attend jump school most do their entire rotation within the command and never jump. As I said before the proposed tattoo idea would make more sense  for the Recon communicator or the Comm CSO than a SOC-C.





Kraut783 said:


> View attachment 12050



Thanks, makes sense to me.  So yeah, lose the Gold Wings



whisper88 said:


> Anyone who is a CSO or a Recon Marine will know that my posts pass the sniff test. Since I do not "sport a green tag" on this website that deems me not "qualified" to offer advice that people with no knowledge on the subject will take seriously, I invite the other Recon Marines or CSOs on this forum to offer their opinions.



You gave a good response.  The tags just make it easier to id the internet commandoes vice the real deals.


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## whisper88 (Nov 14, 2014)

policemedic said:


> The vetting system on this site offers those who claim special knowledge or skill sets credibility and other site members a frame of reference and context with which to evaluate posts.   You claim to be a CSO; you should understand the value of this system.
> 
> With that as background, it should be clear why--at least in my opinion--it isn't enough to know what color the boathouse is.


I see and understand the purpose of the vetting system as you see it. I freely give my frame of reference as required by the site. If people decide to put less faith in what I say just because I have not been "vetted" then that is their loss. IMO people should evaluate my posts on their content not on the color of the banner below my name. In my experience reading posts on this site one who is "in the biz" can easily be determined by their peers from phonies rather quickly. If SS ever changes their policy on unvetted members then I will reevaluate my position but for now I will stick with some anonymity.


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## ritterk (Nov 14, 2014)

Whisper88's ops are blacker than yours!


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## x SF med (Nov 14, 2014)

whisper88 said:


> I see and understand the purpose of the vetting system as you see it. I freely give my frame of reference as required by the site. If people decide to put less faith in what I say just because I have not been "vetted" then that is their loss. IMO people should evaluate my posts on their content not on the color of the banner below my name. In my experience reading posts on this site one who is "in the biz" can easily be determined by their peers from phonies rather quickly. If SS ever changes their policy on unvetted members then I will reevaluate my position but for now I will stick with some anonymity.



We have had some individuals who 'sounded good' and received cred, based on 'knowledge' who turned out to be manure factories.  Vetting has been stepped up here to reduce the amount of butt sniffing and chest thumping and even, to a degree the poser busting on this site...  

You choose to remain unvetted, for anonymity, that is your choice, but you then also choose to have a cloud of doubt on some posts due to the lack of visible 'proof' that you are an authority.

There is no 'policy on unvetted members' on this site; there is a healthy skepticism of those unwilling or unable to be vetted - think of vetting as a badge of being a SME, and a diplomat of your Service and/or SOF unit.  All it does is lend weight to your arguments in military/SOF specific threads.


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## 8654Maine (Nov 14, 2014)

To Whisper88:  if you really want creds here, get vetted.  Probably a lot easier than some shit that you did. 

Think of it this way:  Guys who came from 3rd Recon to 2nd Force still had to prove they were worthy.

I'm not a CSO.  I left before that whole thing started.

Most of my peers and folks that I trained started Det 1 and have trained CSO's or are E8/E9's.

This whole SOC and SOCOM shit has been a boon and bane.  The Corps and SOCOM have taken many things away from the Recon community. 

To the OP:  If I find a dude wearing the Jack AND if I find that they were not part of a team AND if I am in a foul mood, one/both of us will be bloody.

Most of the time, I'm too busy for such nonsense.

Troll:  curious about these posers who passed the sniff test.


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## amlove21 (Nov 15, 2014)

8654Maine said:


> Troll:  curious about these posers who passed the sniff test.


 There are two or three that come to mind, just since I heave been here. Some people are just naturally good at stuff, and sometimes that stuff is lying about your credentials.

@whisper88 You're sort of missing the point here. I've seen the "I am who I am and I don't care if you believe me", and to some degree I get it.

BL- you've made a claim. If you want anonymity as you say, well, then maybe you shouldn't have let on that you're a CSO and made that claim _on an open internet board_. Until you provide some proof for your claim, I don't personally care how good you sound, but you won't make the claim and then back off.  

How about this- get yourself vetted. 3 days sounds about right. After three days, I will do my level best to get you a vacation. You're either a liar or a dick for no reason at this point, and we don't tolerate either here. It's 1806Z on 15 November. Your clock goes *ding* on 18 November.

Thanks for the time. If you need help with the proces, please PM me. I'll offer whatever help I can.


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## ritterk (Nov 15, 2014)

Whisper88 is the real deal, I'll vouch for him since I know him personally. He and I went through dive school together earlier this year.


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## 8654Maine (Nov 15, 2014)

ritterk said:


> Whisper88 is the real deal, I'll vouch for him since I know him personally. He and I went through dive school together earlier this year.



Works for me.  Thanks.


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## policemedic (Nov 15, 2014)

8654Maine said:


> Works for me.  Thanks.



Me too.


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## DA SWO (Nov 15, 2014)

ritterk said:


> Whisper88 is the real deal, I'll vouch for him since I know him personally. He and I went through dive school together earlier this year.


Then he should get a military tag.


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## AWP (Nov 15, 2014)

The staff is sorting this now. Let's go back to the original topic.


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## The Hate Ape (Jan 19, 2015)

whisper88 said:


> SOC-Cs are not team level communicators and while they may on occasion be attached to an MSOT they are a company asset. While some SOC-Cs inadvertently get to attend jump school most do their entire rotation within the command and never jump. As I said before the proposed tattoo idea would make more sense  for the Recon communicator or the Comm CSO than a SOC-C.



What experience are you drawing this summary from? SOCS-C has never been strictly a company asset; to every UDP a SOCS-C is augmented to each team and even 3rd is starting to take on the same format.

Your information either came from the misinformed or is just seriously outdated.

A typical (vast majority) 0372 commo's knowledge on communications is completely laughable and to not place an 8071 within a team (1st & 2nd) would result in absolute failure at every responsibility & MET associated with that billet.

There's plenty of jump qualed Comm guys, Intel's, even fucking dog handlers. I really can't find anything in your post that the Op or anyone reading this thread can really learn from.

As for the tattoo idea; lame as fuck IMHO


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## Hacksaw0621 (May 1, 2015)

Not trying to high jack the thread but how would a 0621 start the process the become a SOCS-C and can you give information to prepare for STC?


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## The Hate Ape (May 4, 2015)

Search the forum - should be a thread or two.

If youre below Sergeant - put in for A&S and don't look back.

Otherwise; ask your monitor, do your screening & be above average in physical fitness. You'll do fine.

Mentally be prepared to not be fully educated in your trade; there is entirely too many systems and intangibles that you must master to teach in a six month course. You will experience heartaches, challenges, and a sense of WTF beyond anything you can imagine. 

If you maintain the right attitude; by learning from your mistakes & taking intelligent initiative -you will not only become a master of your trade but one of the most valuable (and sometimes underated) assets of the MSOT/C. 

It took me two deployments and four years of being a SOCS-C before I felt confident in the micro & macro of things. A very hard road but an experience I could never replace.

I am what I am because of this community; no other assignment in the Marine Corps could have given me that - for this I am grateful.


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## Hacksaw0621 (May 4, 2015)

Thank you for the information im preparing to go on another deployment and I will probably be a Sgt by the time we get back.


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## whisper88 (Jun 21, 2015)

The Hate Ape said:


> What experience are you drawing this summary from? SOCS-C has never been strictly a company asset; to every UDP a SOCS-C is augmented to each team and even 3rd is starting to take on the same format.
> 
> Your information either came from the misinformed or is just seriously outdated.
> 
> ...



The experience I am drawing from is 3 deployments and counting on an MSOT.

You are half right. MSOTs during AFG rotations generally had a SOCS-C attached to their team.....from the company. The company gets chopped so many SOCS-Cs to use as they see fit....making them a company asset. With the realignment and AFG draw down, the requirements of an MSOT and MSOC are changing, therefore the companys use of their assets are changing as well.

I can assure you that I have not been misinformed nor is my knowledge outdated.

And again you are half right....a typical 0372s knowledge on communications barely extends to how to operate his 148.Yet there are 2 comm CSOs per team that attend the same courses that makes someone a SOCS-C and are perfectly able to handle all comm systems organic to an MSOT. Also if you think that any SOCS-C is a single point a failure for any MSOT your assessment of CSOs is laughable.

The tattoo is lame.

Anyways....who cares we are all Raiders now.....right?


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## The Hate Ape (Jun 21, 2015)

No,

If you started a UDP tomorrow and told the team leadership they would not be assigned SOCS-X whatever, in this case communicators, they would absolutely flip shit. If they didn't, they would immediately do so following AARs from the first training phase.

While we both agree that the switch in focus on new AOs have affected team and company quotas; you are absolutely, positively, NOT going to replace the communicators. It will not happen. Since that post I have met two CSOs who genuinely maintain interest in their billets and are effective but not without help from an 06. Additionally, they are both tasked out the ass and would not be able to sustain that pace without an 06/8071.

During your three deployments you surely noticed that some of the assigned CSO communicators may have fallen in other billets, check that, absolutely fell in other billets. My last deployment had only one MNOC qualed guy and he was the element leader alongside another billet deemed critical beyond comm when there was an 06 on the team. The single point of failure holds true but is subjective to what you deem failure as well. When an MSOT can't complete any of their operations prep, get their plans to an approval authority, or even have a clue on a timeline because the MNOCer doesn't know how to load a config or properly setup his data node, that is a failure. Apply that same concept to any mission prep or even just getting the fucking vehicles ready for example. A rollover in keymat or getting issued new ones have left CSOs clueless. Your statement, not that I took it personally, claims that thousands of man hours conducted by an 06 can be thrown onto another CSOs back who has probably all but completely forgotten his former training. Thats assuming that there are MNOC qualed guys on the team, there's a few MSOTs in two of the companys I've worked under already that still don't have any.

The rectifiable situation would be to hold CSO communicators accountable for their operations knowledge and intensity on communications. But at what point are we going to focus a young or sometimes a seasoned CSO into comm when there are perfectly qualified 8071s to fill that piece and, hopefully, fill additional voids not typically foreseen aka intangibles? The cost/reward at the initial scale is balanced, but not over the long term. A major talking point, while cliche, is that MSOCs come with their own enablers. Millions in training dollars made it that way, do not waste that shit by placing everyone at the company level and making a CSO tasking even more difficult in a now undermanned, under promoted community.

No we are not all raiders, but you knew that.


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## x SF med (Jun 22, 2015)

whisper88 said:


> ...a typical 0372s knowledge on communications barely extends to how to operate his 148. ...



Which is a command failure. If it is an issued piece of organic internal Team equipment and the users can't operate it; you are unable to shoot, move and communicate - therefore the entire team dies.


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## 8654Maine (Jun 22, 2015)

This thread is jacked up.

Good debate about the Comm support guys, though.


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## Teufel (Jun 22, 2015)

The Hate Ape said:


> No we are not all raiders, but you knew that.



Is this accurate? I spoke with a friend of mine who is the CO for 1st MSOB and he told me that he considers all members of his battalion Raiders.  My understanding is that this is not the case at the regiment or 2nd/3rd but I haven't spoken with anyone over there.


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## The Hate Ape (Jun 22, 2015)

Correct.

If you speak to 2nd MSOB's commander, he has openly made similar statements; if you discuss this privately with senior CSOs both officer and enlisted there will be a firm negative across the board.

The mentality isn't that of vanity but that "Raider" is a title, earned only by those who have been selected and qualified. It is not a catch all nor does it extend beyond the 0372/70 MOS.


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## Teufel (Jun 23, 2015)

Here is the question, do you become a Raider when you pass ITC now or are you still graduate a CSO?


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## The Hate Ape (Jun 23, 2015)

I have understood it as: CSO = Raider


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## Teufel (Jun 23, 2015)

The Hate Ape said:


> I have understood it as: CSO = Raider



I understand that is what people are saying...everyone except at least 2 of MSOB commanders.  I know the commander from 3d and it wouldn't surprise me if he also falls in line with their way of thinking.


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## Sandman3 (Jun 24, 2015)

MNOC grads are held accountable for maintaining their skill.  It may have slid a bit in the past because the high turnover rates during the war or whatever, I wasn't there yet, but from what I've seen is each team has 2 junior CSOs or 1 junior and an AEL who are responsible for team comm(MNOC grads).  And this is true for my battalion at least, I can't speak on behalf of the others.  I'm not disregarding a SOC-C is replaceable or irrelevant but it's not a point of failure at the team level.  It is a company level asset, but is mission enhancing to a team to take a good bit of the burden off the shoulders of an MNOC guys to focus on other responsibilities.  As far as the lack of knowledge on basic comms up to a 148 that's a negative blanket statement and that's on the team if that holds any truth, that sure isn't the case for everyone.

Any who, just my 2 cents.  The tattoo, I wouldn't do it man, that's Recon's piece of history, that's like me getting a jack, while yes I may possess those same skills as my Reconnaissance brethren, I didn't goto BRC.  Do something in regards to history your organization has now, or be prepared to always answer to someone who questions you about the origins of your jack.


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