# For Many Pakistanis, "USA" Means "Drones."



## Marauder06 (Jun 26, 2012)

Headline of an article I read on MSNBC today:  "For many Pakistanis, 'USA' means 'drones."  And all this time, I thought "USA" meant "Gravy Train" to the Paks...

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/26/12403677-for-many-pakistanis-usa-means-drones

That's cool, to many Americans, "Pakistan" means "dead Americans."  To well-informed Americans, it might mean "Haqqani Network," "ISI" (well, ok, those are actually the same thing), "Bin Laden," "Terrorist Sanctuary," and if you walk it back far enough, "9/11."


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## QC (Jun 26, 2012)

If piloted this would, I guess, be a violation of airspace or if a raid on the ground with a small force ditto. I'm not against it, merely wanting to debate a point noted by some legal wonk recently.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 26, 2012)

It is a violation of nothing if the HN government gives its permission, which is what is happening.


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## QC (Jun 26, 2012)

Ok, I was unaware of that. So then this guy in the article looks more like an ambulance chaser than a humanitarian.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 26, 2012)

Yeah, it's one of those dirty little not-so-secret secrets about the war in Afghanistan, right up there with Pakistan's active support of armed terrorist groups that regularly target Americans.



> Pakistan's government publicly condemns these attacks, but has secretly shared intelligence with the United States[8] and also allegedly allowed the drones to operate from Shamsi Airfield in Pakistan until 21 April 2011, when 150 Americans left the base.[9] According to secret diplomatic cables leaked by Wikileaks, Pakistan's Army Chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani not only tacitly agreed to the drone flights, but in 2008 requested Americans to increase them.[10


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jun 27, 2012)

Lol, I'm actually giving a persuasive speech tomorrow in public speaking on cutting US aid to Pakistan. Ya know that aid package for Pakistan congress passed back in 09? By December 2010 about $1.5 million of a billion or so had actually made its way to where it was intended there in the Pak govt, the rest swallowed up by their myriad corruption. That not even going into the history of that country with the Taliban, the ISI, haquani network, Kashmir......WHY are we giving these people money?!?!?!

Oh you want a scary/tragically comical look at that country? Watch the vice guide to Karachi or the one they did of the gun maarkets of pakistan. The one they did going into N.Korea was fascinating/creepy/funny also! Love those guys!


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## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2012)

JohnnyBoyUSMC said:


> Lol, I'm actually giving a persuasive speech tomorrow in public speaking on cutting US aid to Pakistan. Ya know that aid package for Pakistan congress passed back in 09? By December 2010 about $1.5 million of a billion or so had actually made its way to where it was intended there in the Pak govt, the rest swallowed up by their myriad corruption. That not even going into the history of that country with the Taliban, the ISI, haquani network, Kashmir......WHY are we giving these people money?!?!?!
> 
> Oh you want a scary/tragically comical look at that country? Watch the vice guide to Karachi or the one they did of the gun maarkets of pakistan. The one they did going into N.Korea was fascinating/creepy/funny also! Love those guys!


 
You should post your notes for your speech here on the site.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jun 27, 2012)

The way I do a speech is from notecards and memorization mostly given my ferocious appetite for reading history and current events. The sources I'm using if anyone is interested are:


US-Pakistan Strategic Partnership: A Track 2 Dialogue, published by U.S. Naval Post Graduate School
Taliban by Ahmed Rashid
Lions of Kandahar by Rusty Bradley and Kevin Maurer
Vice Travel Guide to Karachi
Reuters article over Pakistan quoting Admiral McMullen's comments over Haqqani network to Congress by Missy Ryan and Mark Hosenball
NY Times article "U.S. Aid plan for Pakistan is Foundering" by Jane Perlez


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## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2012)

What is going to be your recommendation, and how are you going to address the, "most viable land route into Afghanistan runs through Pakistan" issue?


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## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2012)

There is another great quote by a Democratic senator... something about Pakistan is not our friend and never will be... could be useful in your speech.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jun 27, 2012)

Given that the aid package passed in 2009 will last till after we've withdrawn from Afghan, we keep it on the table as is. Long term, I'm recommending a full cutting off of aid or at least a drastic downgrade of it to the country. From the readings I've gathered they aren't really relying as heavily on it as most people think, the money isn't really going anywhere except into the pockets of people due to the rampant corruption there, undoubtably some of it has gone into the Taliban/Haqqani network given the ISI connections there, and the country is considered so dangerous and on the edge that it's realistically only a matter of time till a full collapse occurs no matter how much we might pump into the country. It's like continually stuffing rags into a hole in a ship at this point, best we can really do is prepare for the inevitable fallout.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2012)

Have you considered arguing that the HQN should be added to the list of known terrorist organizations?  IMO we haven't done that because the HQN is supported by the ISI, which is the intelligence arm of the PK government... which means if HQN was designated as a terrorist group then PK would be... you guessed it... on the list of state sponsors of terror.  There's your argument to cut off funding right there.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jun 27, 2012)

Well we've gotta give several points to persuade but that deff is one of them and is part of my persuasive argument. Part one is giving examples of what we're giving them in aid, where it's going (into private pockets), and how our aid isn't really helping them that much. Part two is listing the Taliban/HQN/ISI connections and Bin Laden. Part Three is arguing how the country is already heading for collapse due to it's corruption, a civil war already basically started within the NWFP, and using the city of Karachi as a model for the country as a whole.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2012)

OK sounds good.  Too bad school isn't in session here right now, I could ask my Pakistani classmates for input.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jun 27, 2012)

Here at Tech we have a high concentration of Indian students since this is one of the more renowned schools for engineering (I'm a history major though lol), never thought to ask em, then again lower student population right now it being summer courses.....there is this one cute Indian girl in American history though....sigh, I miss being singles sometimes


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## AWP (Jun 27, 2012)

To this American, "Pakistan" means "Ungrateful motherless fucks who deserve to shower with Jerry Sandusky in hell for all of eternity AFTER we turn their shitty little anus of a "country," AKA British Empire leftovers, over to India for annexation and good, old fashioned rape and plunder."

Pakistan is the Nickelback of the Indian subcontinent.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 1, 2012)

JohnnyBoyUSMC said:


> Lol, I'm actually giving a persuasive speech tomorrow in public speaking on cutting US aid to Pakistan. Ya know that aid package for Pakistan congress passed back in 09? By December 2010 about $1.5 million of a billion or so had actually made its way to where it was intended there in the Pak govt, the rest swallowed up by their myriad corruption. That not even going into the history of that country with the Taliban, the ISI, haquani network, Kashmir......WHY are we giving these people money?!?!?!
> 
> Oh you want a scary/tragically comical look at that country? Watch the vice guide to Karachi or the one they did of the gun maarkets of pakistan. The one they did going into N.Korea was fascinating/creepy/funny also! Love those guys!


 

So, how did it go?

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-suspected-militants-in-pakistan-hideout?lite




> A U.S. drone killed eight suspected Islamist militants in northwest Pakistan on Sunday, security officials said.
> A drone missile struck a house in the Shawal Valley where militants were reported to be hiding in the North Waziristan tribal region near the Afghan border.
> "Two missiles were fired on a house. Eight militants were killed," said a local intelligence official.



Let's see... figure $60,000 per missile (low estimate) plus a couple grand for running the Pred, that works out to... maybe $65,000, divided by 8 bad guys = the bargain price of $8125 each.


> "The area is considered a stronghold of local and foreign militants, but* it is not clear at the moment who were killed* in the latest drone strike," said a security official in *Miranshah*, North Waziristan.


I hope they were Haqqanis.  But I'll settle for foreign fighters.


> The Taliban in North Waziristan had banned an anti-polio immunization campaign in protest over U.S. drone strikes, which they claim are killing civilians.


That will teach us!


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jul 1, 2012)

Honestly could have gone better. Didn't sleep worth a damn, then on my way to college my motorcycle ran out of gas and the reserve tank would not kick in, so had to push it half a mile to a gas station (and watch a cop drive right past me and not do a damn thing cept go to ihop). By the time of the day to do it my brain wasn't working as well as it could, so I jumped a bit on some parts and had my brain decide to not work as well. Think my wearing a pakol and kaffiyah when I was up as a attention getter was a good touch, and presented some good info including adding Pak to the state sponsors of terrorism list, but the teacher (who's younger than me and a grad student not a actual professor) I guess didn't dig it as much since I didn't follow her exacting standards for persuasive speeches which she's a nazi about it seems so only got a 72. Average for the class right now for me is a 86 so I'm good regardless, still it wasn't a great day for me. Shit day in fact lol.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jul 1, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> So, how did it go?
> 
> http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-suspected-militants-in-pakistan-hideout?lite
> 
> ...


 
Ah Pakistan, one of (possibly the only country I think) to not have eradicated Polio. Next the black death will pop back up there and the Taliban will deny any treatment for that because of the US while proclaiming it the work of Allah smitting the wicked for not being bigger believers


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