# What's your FAVORITE semi-auto "dry fire" drill?



## arizonaguide (Jun 21, 2009)

After reading Will's excellent recent post, I'm thinking that I need to get serious about making the transition from the Snubby to the 1911.  

With ammo being an issue these days, and my next class is a ways out (freakin wussy Boss/instructor, and Arizona summer heat!) I am thinking that I should start really working on the dry-fire (around the house) with the 1911. (as well as find better instruction, of course).

Anybody have some great ideas about "dry fire drills" besides just sitting in front of the TV (I call them CNN drills ;)) and screwing around w/snap-caps, etc? :cool: What's YOUR favorite?


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## JJOIFVET (Jun 21, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> After reading Will's excellent recent post, I'm thinking that I need to get serious about making the transition from the Snubby to the 1911.
> 
> With ammo being an issue these days, and my next class is a ways out (freakin wussy Boss/instructor, and Arizona summer heat!) I am thinking that I should start really working on the dry-fire (around the house) with the 1911. (as well as find better instruction, of course).
> 
> Anybody have some great ideas about "dry fire drills" besides just sitting in front of the TV (I call them CNN drills ;)) and screwing around w/snap-caps, etc? :cool: What's YOUR favorite?



I actually do my dry firing in the garage, and I do it before I shoot as well. 

I like to put up a six inch dot, triagnles, 3x5 cards, and different shapes to aim at. I actually do different drills. I will put a couple on here for ya.

1. I like to always start from what we call position three, which is with the sights up in front of my eyes and gun as level as possible. I will rail it out getting a sight picture as I squeeze the trigger. I usually always start with this because it is the easiest. 

2. Then I will go from the holster (position 1) out to full presentation.

3. I always add in mag changes of different sorts, tactical mag and so forth. 

4. If I am shooting competition and I know I will be carrying my long gun, I will do transition drills and malfuncion drills on both weapons. 

5. I always go really slow in the begining working on my fundamentals. I like to also conduct turning drills and also concealed draw drills with a shirt over my gun. 

 The list goes on and on, there are a ton of guys on here with a lot better advice than I have, these are just a couple of drills I like to work on when I dry fire.

 Not that I need to tell you, but I always ensure my gun and mags are clear before I start dry firing.


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## AssadUSMC (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm with JJ - lots of "aim small, shoot small" targets, with LOTS of concentration on sight picture and trigger control.  Good tips...


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## JJOIFVET (Jun 21, 2009)

Another guy I like to watch is Todd Jarrett. You can find his videos on Youtube. I know he isn't the best guy out there right now, but he likes to teach and has several good videos.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 21, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> Not that I need to tell you, but I always ensure my gun and mags are clear before I start dry firing.


 
Yup, the rule I have is NO LIVE AMMO even in the same room. RED snap caps only. No dummy rounds.
Great stuff Bro! And thanks!
:)


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## 8'Duece (Jun 22, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> Another guy I like to watch is Todd Jarrett. You can find his videos on Youtube. I know he isn't the best guy out there right now, but he likes to teach and has several good videos.




Todd Jarrest rocks !!!  There's a thread here somehwere where I posted several of his Youtube vids for pistol and rifle drills.  Good stuff.  Not dry fireing though.


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## WillBrink (Jun 22, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> After reading Will's excellent recent post, I'm thinking that I need to get serious about making the transition from the Snubby to the 1911.
> 
> With ammo being an issue these days, and my next class is a ways out (freakin wussy Boss/instructor, and Arizona summer heat!) I am thinking that I should start really working on the dry-fire (around the house) with the 1911. (as well as find better instruction, of course).
> 
> Anybody have some great ideas about "dry fire drills" besides just sitting in front of the TV (I call them CNN drills ;)) and screwing around w/snap-caps, etc? :cool: What's YOUR favorite?



Don't really have a favorite, but I tend to work the entire chain: drawing, stance, presentation, site picture, trigger pull, when I do draw fire.

I like to work on mag changes, tap/rack drills using dummy rnds, and shooting on the move mechanics, and VERY important, drawing from concealment. Many people do all their practicing without concealment, yet carry concealed 99.9% of the time. Drawing from concealment very much changes the draw mechanics, and I have seen good shooters go to sh%$ when they had to draw from concealment as they got caught up in the jacket, shirt, etc they were wearing. 

If you carry CCW, which = the threat you face will most likely be while you are carrying concealed, make a good portion of your training - dry or otherwise - working from concealment. :2c:

What civilians need to focus on is not always the same as what LEOs, soldiers, etc need to focus on, so keep in mind your specific situation/needs when training.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 22, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> What civilians need to focus on is not always the same as what LEOs, soldiers, etc need to focus on, so keep in mind your specific situation/needs when training.



Going to have to disagree with this… The mechanics and fundamentals stay the same, regardless who you are working for or why you are armed. 

As for drawing from a concealed holster, I agree 110% train your self how you are going to fight. 



As for dry-fire drill’s I spend most of my time working on sights and trigger, although mag changes and drawing from the holster are very important and should be practiced. Sights and trigger is where you make your money, thus that is where my focus stays. You can have a .000001 second magazine change/ draw stroke, but if you can’t hit the threat in a vital area it does you no good IMO….:2c:


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## HOLLiS (Jun 22, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> What civilians need to focus on is not always the same as what LEOs, soldiers, etc need to focus on, so keep in mind your specific situation/needs when training.



IMHO, very sage advice, some things translate over to LEO, Soldiers and civilians some things do not.  Problem with civilians then tend not to have a develop ROE like LEO and Military.


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## WillBrink (Jun 22, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> Going to have to disagree with this… The mechanics and fundamentals stay the same, regardless who you are working for or why you are armed.



Didn't mean mechanics: I'm talking in general in that the needs/training are different for soldiers, LEO, and civilians. Ergo, an LEO needs to be well trained in drawing from his level 3 retention holster if that's what he carries on the job, while I will never need to draw from such a holster. That's what I meant by different needs not that the mechanics are different per se. Conversely, I see civis at courses wearing a drop holster ('cause that's what all the cool kids are wearing in mil and SWAT..) who will never wear it outside that course, etc. I hope that's clearer. :2c:

Note: This is not my area of expertise so it JAB et al tell me I am full of sh&% in the above, he/they are probably correct...


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## TheWookie (Jun 22, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> As for dry-fire drill’s I spend most of my time working on sights and trigger, although mag changes and drawing from the holster are very important and should be practiced. Sights and trigger is where you make your money, thus that is where my focus stays. You can have a .000001 second magazine change/ draw stroke, but if you can’t hit the threat in a vital area it does you no good IMO….:2c:



For what it's worth I agree, I think trigger control is the money maker when it comes to pistols.  It think in terms of basics when I snap in and I try to stay away from anything too elaborate.  Just get that trigger finger under control and the rest will fall in line.  

K
I
S
S


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 22, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> IMHO, very sage advice, some things translate over to LEO, Soldiers and civilians some things do not.  Problem with civilians then tend not to have a develop ROE like LEO and Military.



Civilians have an ROE it’s called use of force law, most states it’s the same for LE. However I fail to see how things are different between LE/ MIL/ CIV other then some CIV have professional training and some do not. That doesn’t change the fact that “what you should know and do” is the same regardless of what outfit I put on today…

LE/ CIV have tighter ROE’s I agree, however in the modern MIL we are seeing the same restrictions.

As MIL guy, I carry a rifle and in some cases may carry a pistol. If I am hunting as a CIV guy I carry a shotgun/ Rifle and may carry a pistol… It’s pretty well the same, if my weapon fails, I get it back in to action. If I am shooting at a target/ threat/ deer, I align the sights and move the trigger.



WillBrink said:


> Didn't mean mechanics: I'm talking in general in that the needs/training are different for soldiers, LEO, and civilians. Ergo, an LEO needs to be well trained in drawing from his level 3 retention holster if that's what he carries on the job, while I will never need to draw from such a holster. That's what I meant by different needs not that the mechanics are different per se. Conversely, I see civis at courses wearing a drop holster ('cause that's what all the cool kids are wearing in mil and SWAT..) who will never wear it outside that course, etc. I hope that's clearer.



My point is that when you practice a dry fire drill there should be a focus point, my focus point is sight alignment and trigger control b/c that’s what is important to me. Drawing from the holster or what ever other technique is important, but not as important as sights and trigger IMO. Like my other post said, you may get the gun out faster, but if you are not on the sights and moving the trigger “correctly” before the threat/ deer/ target moves, you are still at a loss. 

I see a lot of HSLD “hero’s” on the range as well and they may look really cool at whatever they are wearing or practicing, but unless they are shooting accurately it just don’t mean much to me.




> Note: This is not my area of expertise so it JAB et al tell me I am full of sh&% in the above, he/they are probably correct...



You lost me on this?


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## JJOIFVET (Jun 22, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> Civilians have an ROE it’s called use of force law, most states it’s the same for LE. However I fail to see how things are different between LE/ MIL/ CIV other then some CIV have professional training and some do not. That doesn’t change the fact that “what you should know and do” is the same regardless of what outfit I put on today…
> 
> LE/ CIV have tighter ROE’s I agree, however in the modern MIL we are seeing the same restrictions.
> 
> ...



I guess I take advantage of my situation of getting to shoot for free all the time. Yes I agree trigger and front site are important. But hey, if you are up to speed and you shoot well, why keep doing the same thing, mix it up a little and get some new experience. Get out to some local IDPA or IPSC competitions and ask those guys questions, watch them. Sometimes they actually bring you up on the line and let you shoot their guns and give you a lot of pointers. A guy I know in TN, Rick, that guy always has great pointers. Like I always say, I like to learn everything I can when it comes to shooting because you never know which part of what you learn will save your life or a friends life.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 22, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> I guess I take advantage of my situation of getting to shoot for free all the time.
> 
> I use to have all the free ammo in the Army could toss at me too, hope to get back to those days (going broke buying my own now) however I still dry fired all the time.
> 
> ...



I agree and shoot local IDPA once a month, I have also shot most of the Army Matches and a ton in the NRA... I was just offering my advice on what I thought was important for dry fire practice. ;)


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## arizonaguide (Jun 22, 2009)

JAB really hit's on something here. My recent experience with the "cool kids" in my classes. My little snubby did better an many cases, because I took that extra .00002 second to AIM. Yes, they got off more shots/second...I hit more targets.
Old rifle/sight alignment/breathing habits seem to die hard.

So, I guess my (slow) "CNN drills" *are* doing some good trigger/sight things for me.
Has anyone ever done something with a coin on the barrel "dry fire" drill? Supposed to help alot with trigger control.
And, thanks for ALL the input folks! :cool:


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## TheWookie (Jun 22, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Has anyone ever done something with a coin on the barrel "dry fire" drill? Supposed to help alot with trigger control.
> And, thanks for ALL the input folks! :cool:



With a pistol it can be tough to balance a coin, but I guess that's the point.:doh:

I've done it with a rifle, a pistol is much tougher.

A good thing that I have learned over the years to help with trigger control is to just call each shot.  Sounds real basic and stupid, but when I am dry firing I really make an effort to call each shot and be honest with where the shot broke.  Focusing on where the shot broke, as opposed to when the shot will break makes a big difference to me.  I also think prepping the trigger for the double action first shot helps by taking the slack out of the trigger, and it makes for a smoother trigger press/pull -- both of those things makes for less anticipation/jerking/slapping.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 22, 2009)

TheWookie said:


> With a pistol it can be tough to balance a coin, but I guess that's the point.:doh:
> 
> I've done it with a rifle, a pistol is much tougher.
> 
> A good thing that I have learned over the years to help with trigger control is to just call each shot.  Sounds real basic and stupid, but when I am dry firing I really make an effort to call each shot and be honest with where the shot broke.  Focusing on where the shot broke, as opposed to when the shot will break makes a big difference to me.  I also think prepping the trigger for the double action first shot helps by taking the slack out of the trigger, and it makes for a smoother trigger press/pull -- both of those things makes for less anticipation/jerking/slapping.



Great advice!;)


As for using a coin, I use a system called beam hit that uses a laser in the muzzle... The coin takes a lot of practice and I find my self focusing more on droping the coin then what I am doing with the trigger and where the fron sight is going...


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## JJOIFVET (Jun 22, 2009)

Hey, if you want to ask a couple of guys advice, you can either call or e-mail Kyle Lamb at Vtac, or Viking Tactical. This guy has been around a while and has a ton of experience, and he also makes some nice slings and a sling adapter called the LUSA. You can also get ahold of Larry Vickers, he makes Vickers Slings and is an awesome shooter who also has been around. Both guys teach shooting as well. You can google them and find their sites. I would say these guys are some of the best in the business.


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## HOLLiS (Jun 22, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> Civilians have an ROE it’s called use of force law, most states it’s the same for LE. However I fail to see how things are different between LE/ MIL/ CIV other then some CIV have professional training and some do not. That doesn’t change the fact that “what you should know and do” is the same regardless of what outfit I put on today…
> 
> LE/ CIV have tighter ROE’s I agree, however in the modern MIL we are seeing the same restrictions.




I think the problem with Civs, most do not actually set down and say this is my ROE.  Most do not have oversight like the LE or Military on ROE, to insure compliance.   If Civs have it, it is in the court room which is not the best place.  Civs are independent, LE and military is not. That is what I was driving at.   Civs should set down and think about this.   

Should know and knowing can be two very different issues.  In the Military and LE there is a chain of command, or if you want to call it a chain of responsibility to insure compliance.  Each Civ is on their own. 

I think the part that works is that Civs in order to get a CCW, needs to have a sense of being prudent and maturity.   That in its self is what makes ROEs.    The military we are looking at a min, age of 18,  CCW at least 21.  

A good CCW class can cover all of this.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 22, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> As for using a coin, I use a system called beam hit that uses a laser in the muzzle... The coin takes a lot of practice and I find my self *focusing more on droping the coin then what I am doing with the trigger and where the fron sight is going*...


Good point JAB! I was looking into a similar laser system.

When I play with the one at work, it AMAZES ME how unsteady my aim is, as I watch the laser bounce around while I THINK I'm holding it steady.
LASER can be a great training tool. Good point, bro. :2c:

Any and all other dry fire ideas are GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks folks!


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## Chad (Jun 22, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> What's YOUR favorite?



I hate dry fire drills. Even used to catch myself cheating at them 

I might do a few slow and precise presentation drills but that's about it.


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## dusty (Jun 23, 2009)

I've been doing _smooth _draw/engage/make it safe dry-fire drills damn near every day for 19 years.

Iso, strong hand, off hand, mag change, strong hand mag change, off hand mag change, forward/left/right movement.

I alternate with a Government model, 442, and now an SR9.

Takes about 30 minutes.

Before ammo went up, I shot dummy drills and IDPA or USPSA matches on alternating Mondays. Now I just shoot dummy drills outdoors and dry fire.

Couple times a year I shoot from the kneeling and prone positions.

I shoot at Vickers and Bad Guy targets.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 23, 2009)

dusty said:


> Before ammo went up, I shot dummy drills and IDPA or USPSA matches on alternating Mondays. Now I just shoot dummy drills outdoors and dry fire.


Dusty, what exactly do you do for your dummy drills? (drawstroke, fire, re-holster? clear malfunction, etc?)

And, this also reminded me...does anyone remember the little red practice ammo that had a black plastic reusable "bullet" inserted into a red plastic casing, that was simply "primer" operated? You could shoot them in your garage/basement without making too much noise. WTF ever happened to those (or something like them)?
:uhh:


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## Centermass (Jun 23, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Dusty, what exactly do you do for your dummy drills? (drawstroke, fire, re-holster? clear malfunction, etc?)
> 
> And, this also reminded me...does anyone remember the little red practice ammo that had a black plastic reusable "bullet" inserted into a red plastic casing, that was simply "primer" operated? You could shoot them in your garage/basement without making too much noise. WTF ever happened to those (or something like them)?
> :uhh:



Sounds like you're talking about Snap Caps


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## TheWookie (Jun 23, 2009)

This isn't a "dry fire" technique, but another technique I've used to help new/ trouble shooters, and/ or experts alike, is to stagger their magazines with dummy rounds and live rounds.  I've had some good success working with this technique just to identify the problem to the shooter.  Some of us are thick headed, and this is a no brainer explanation once you see it in action.

This is done on a live/hot range, of course. 

It's a good way to highlight problems with your trigger control.  Really shows the shooter what you are talking about when you tell them to stop anticipating/slapping/jerking the trigger.


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## dusty (Jun 23, 2009)

The dummy drill I do is I have my wife pass the handgun over my right shoulder after she either loads it or doesn't. 

When I press the trigger for the first round, the muzzle shouldn't move one fucking iota if there's no bullet.

It doesn't work with the SR9, though.


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## HOLLiS (Jun 23, 2009)

dusty said:


> The dummy drill I do is I have my wife pass the handgun over my right shoulder after she either loads it or doesn't.
> 
> When I press the trigger for the first round, the muzzle shouldn't move one fucking iota if there's no bullet.
> 
> It doesn't work with the SR9, though.



Good for determining recoil anticipation, or jerk.  

One of the old methods with a wheel gun, is for a friend to load it with less than full load.  The watch the sight alignment/barrel,  it fires or it doesn't, there should be no movement.   Good way to remove the flinch from recoil anticipation. 

On a auto, use dummies.  Say load 8 rounds,  X amount of dummies.  In some random order so the shooter can not figure what is next.  


Dry firing is good for building the muscle movement to work the trigger with out moving the sight alignment.   Often in moving the finger, the hand would move too.  Learning to move the finger straight inline with the trigger w/o any hand movement.  

A good read, is Zen Archery, similar mental exercises that is used for using a bow will work with a firearm.  

Also, learning to snap shoot helps.  There are pros and cons to squeezing and snapping a trigger.   Squeezing is great for static target and shooting from a rest position.  Snapping works great for a dynamic environment. 

BTW< snapping is not jerking.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 23, 2009)

Centermass said:


> Sounds like you're talking about Snap Caps


No, this was a round that actually fired a plastic bullet, but only had a normal primer, and no powder.  The casing was plastic, with a normal primer in it, and a black plastic (reusable) "bullet" was fired from it.

I can't remember WTF they were called, but they were great garage/basement practice, and would also be good for starting shooters.
Almost ZERO recoil, so NOT 100% realistic...but better than a BB gun.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 23, 2009)

HERE THEY ARE!
Looks like USAC was the original manufacturer, and it looks like SPEER may still produce them:








> USAC (United States Ammunition Company) was around in the mid 1980's. They had a line of ammo that was plastic cased and made to reload by hand. Meaning, you deprimed and reprimed with their special tool and pushed the bullet in with your fingers. I know this sounds wild, but I tried few boxes when it came out. I still have a few of the cases with the bullets and a factory info sheet around here.


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## HOLLiS (Jun 23, 2009)

^^ I had some of those,  sort of for basement live fire.  I didn't have a basement and had a place to shoot live stuff, so while they where a cool idea just never really used them much.


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## JJOIFVET (Jun 23, 2009)

dusty said:


> I've been doing _smooth _draw/engage/make it safe dry-fire drills damn near every day for 19 years.
> 
> Iso, strong hand, off hand, mag change, strong hand mag change, off hand mag change, forward/left/right movement.
> 
> ...




I couldn't agree with you more brother. I remember one school I went to, the first day was 14 hours of dry fire and then every day after training it was a couple hours of dry fire. I know it helps, but so does all the other things you have mentioned while dry firing. Even if the guy is a civilian, he still needs to know how to change mags, shoot off hand, weak hand, prone, kneeling ans so on. Good advice, but I am sure we have been to some of the same courses.


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## dusty (Jun 23, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> I couldn't agree with you more brother. I remember one school I went to, the first day was 14 hours of dry fire and then every day after training it was a couple hours of dry fire. I know it helps, but so does all the other things you have mentioned while dry firing. Even if the guy is a civilian, he still needs to know how to change mags, shoot off hand, weak hand, prone, kneeling ans so on. Good advice, but I am sure we have been to some of the same courses.




I've only been to one, but it was a long one.


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## arizonaguide (Jun 23, 2009)

Yup, I used to use them in the garage, and they were great to work on trigger/sight allignment "slow fire" (hunting style) at the time. 

But I'm beginning to think they'd be good to intro the wife to the .38, instead of buying a complete .22 to start her on.
And WTF, I could play a bit of 5-7yd (garage distance)draw/present/fire practice with them also. 

I called Speer and they still make them. So, I'm working on contacting my "local vender" for a couple boxes. Of course, that's assuming ANYONE can find pistol primers to use with them these days! Wish I would have saved the ones I had! :cool:


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## HOLLiS (Jun 23, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Wish I would have saved the ones I had! :cool:



A very common mantra from any gun owner.   Or it is; "I should not have sold it."

That is good to know they are still available,  I think I have several boxes hidden.    (or I gave them away and forgot about it).


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## arizonaguide (Jun 28, 2009)

Hard to get primers now, anyway. :uhh:



			
				JAB said:
			
		

> I use a system called beam hit that uses a laser in the muzzle


This may be worth looking into because THEN you're not just focusing on the laser.
I think it only turns on for a moment, to give you feedback about your shot placement, correct?
Looks pretty cool! :cool:

Link here: http://www.beamhit.com/ttg/m/_general/catalog2005.html


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## arizonaguide (Jun 28, 2009)

This looks pretty cool too. :cool:
http://www.laserlyte.com/Laser_Training_System/LT-1/LT-1.html


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## HOLLiS (Jun 28, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Hard to get primers now, anyway. :uhh:
> 
> 
> This may be worth looking into because THEN you're not just focusing on the laser.
> ...




 I wonder if they would be hard to make?  Let say sleeve some brass so it can take a plastic plug that is sightly undersize (Lands dimension minus a few 1/1000s)  Cut some plastic rod to say 3/4 inch long. 

Sleeving may not be necessary, a slight roll crimp to give a better fit between case and plastic pellet.


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## WillBrink (Jul 5, 2009)

Speaking of drawing from cover and such, one of the clubs I shoot at put these up of yours truly during a few IDPA stages. Yanking out mags for example from cover slows things down quite a bit. I'll take a slow hit over a fast miss any day, but I was slower then I would like here:

[YOUTUBE]RD4xKKqY_mA[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]18w6-Nbo6gg[/YOUTUBE]

PS, if you don't shoot IDPA some of that might not make sense.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 5, 2009)

Good stuff Will! :cool: Will be looking into local IDPA the next couple weeks...not sure if it's popular here during the hot part of the summer. But, it's time.


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