# New Zealand Army Fields New Camouflage Pattern



## pardus (Jun 20, 2013)

I guess they haven't been following the ACU debate in the USA...

2 issues, 1, A single camo pattern simply doesn't work for everything, and 2, this is too light coloured for a lot of NZ (not to mention jungle environments). 

My initial impression is that this is not a smart move. They would've been far better picking up multicam or the British Multi Terrain Pattern (MTP).


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## DA SWO (Jun 20, 2013)

ACU Marpat?

Needs more brown/green


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## Coyote (Jun 20, 2013)

Do you think they just wanted to make a statement that they're independent and developed their own camouflage pattern to use or is it that difficult to get required permissions to use other patterns like multicam developed by other countries?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jun 20, 2013)

Real camo?!?  I thought they were going to be wearing something like this when I read the title:


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## Coyote (Jun 20, 2013)

Please tell me that is sheep skin. LOL.


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## pardus (Jun 20, 2013)

Coyote said:


> Please tell me that is sheep skin. LOL.



No, it's fake.


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## pardus (Jun 20, 2013)

Coyote said:


> Do you think they just wanted to make a statement that they're independent and developed their own camouflage pattern to use or is it that difficult to get required permissions to use other patterns like multicam developed by other countries?



I'm sure it's an independent thing I'm sure. 
The Brit DPM we wore for years worked pretty bloody well in the bush.

If anyone wants to wear something like Multicam/MTP etc... all you need to do is pay for it.


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## Coyote (Jun 20, 2013)

pardus said:


> If anyone wants to wear something like Multicam/MTP etc... all you need to do is pay for it.



Roger, didn't know the restrictions on those patterns are lighter in nature compared to others (like CADPAT for instance). 

They also must be saving money by producing and supplying their own pattern, but they could have at least adopted similar colours to the British DPM since in your experience and I'm sure in many others' it worked very well.


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## pardus (Jun 20, 2013)

Coyote said:


> Roger, didn't know the restrictions on those patterns are lighter in nature compared to others (like CADPAT for instance).
> 
> They also must be saving money by producing and supplying their own pattern, but they could have at least adopted similar colours to the British DPM since in your experience and I'm sure in many others' it worked very well.



Let me be clear, I don't know the exact requirements for each cam pattern. I know Crye sold multicam to the US Army and then developed MTP for the Brits because they wanted something a little different. 
Yes I'm sure they saved a ton of money developing their own cam but they started with a flawed foundation IMHO by looking for a one cam does all pattern.


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## 0699 (Jun 21, 2013)

I like the coyote accessories.


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## Florida173 (Jun 21, 2013)

0699 said:


> I like the coyote accessories.



I've always missed the point in the solid color kit on any campat


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## pardus (Jun 21, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> I've always missed the point in the solid color kit on any campat



The other option is what? 2 or 3 different sets of web gear. That would be nice but never going to happen given budget restraints. 

Speaking of which, web gear is pretty easily camouflaged with a lick of paint, and can be repainted again for different terrain. 
Just hide from the CSM lol


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## Florida173 (Jun 21, 2013)

pardus said:


> The other option is what? 2 or 3 different sets of web gear. That would be nice but never going to happen given budget restraints.
> 
> Speaking of which, web gear is pretty easily camouflaged with a lick of paint, and can be repainted again for different terrain.
> Just hide from the CSM lol



Good point.. camouflage of kit has always been a pretty basic soldier task..


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## pardus (Jun 21, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> Good point.. camouflage of kit has always been a pretty basic soldier task..



Indeed. One of my first lessons on my scouts course was about how lazy camouflaged uniforms had made Soldiers with regards to personal camouflage.


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## DA SWO (Jun 21, 2013)

Coyote said:


> Please tell me that is sheep skin. LOL.





pardus said:


> No, it's fake.



and Pardus wonders why people think he shags sheep.


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## AWP (Jun 21, 2013)

We revisit the absurdity of modern camoflage every few weeks. One would think, would hope, that after 11+ years of combat across the globe on top of previous experience that our nations would learn that there is no "one size fits all" pattern.

But...no, we can't do that.

In a bizarre fantasy world I have to wonder if a nation is better off with reasonably inexpensive ripstop cotton khakis which can have spray paint applied to darken or color as needed and then wear plain khaki in garrison.

At this point, I don't think we could come up with a worse idea than what the US has seen in the last few years with UCP and the ABU pattern. Add New Zealand's 25% (my number because that's what it looks like) improvement over UCP and the Tale of Broken Camoflage continues.

Nicely done.


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## pardus (Jun 21, 2013)

I asked a Kiwi Vietnam vet if he wished they could've had camouflage uniforms, he said No, that soon enough they were sweating so much the OD's they were wearing had dark patches that gave a camo effect. Add web gear and shadow to the equation and its not a bad option.

What's really crazy is that the civilian market has far better camouflage than we do, and it's mostly worn to go to walmart...


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 21, 2013)

pardus said:


> What's really crazy is that the civilian market has far better camouflage than we do, and it's mostly worn to go to walmart...


Or to mow the grass here in the South.....


I like that camo for some reason...how are those boots....?  Do they have to be black?


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## reed11b (Jun 23, 2013)

Still 1000x better than UCP.
Reed


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## Mac_NZ (Jun 23, 2013)

Multicam and MTP didn't score high enough in the testing to be adopted.  Multicam was almost a done deal.

Then there is the whole "Army brand" bullshit that got brought into it.


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## pardus (Jun 23, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> Multicam and MTP didn't score high enough in the testing to be adopted.  Multicam was almost a done deal.
> 
> Then there is the whole "Army brand" bullshit that got brought into it.



I'd like to see the criteria for the testing.

Outside of Tekapo and Waiouru, where the hell does that pattern fit in? Sure as shit looks too light for the bush, especially on the wetcoast.


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## Mac_NZ (Jun 23, 2013)

I didn't receive an e or hard copy but got to look at it.  

They used urban, native bush, pines, tussock areas and shorelines.

It did not a as great as one would desire in the native bush/pines obviously but did really well in the other areas.  It was a pretty comprehensive test involving computer generated algorithms, observers and a a questionnaire on the participants opinions.  I was pretty septic about it at first but when I read through it I understood it.  It's a massive compromise between everywhere we would operate in NZ.  T

Strangely in the original NATICK studies Multicam didn't do that uber, it came out 4th IIRC overall.  Desert MARPAT beat it in the desert and urban, it's mediocre in temperate woodland but really comes into its own in mountainous areas, well until it snows.


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## pardus (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks mate.

I fucking hate that they are trying to have a one cam fits all fix.
If this new cam was adopted as NZ's arid cam, it would be a great addition to the DPM, which we need for the bush. 

I think the main reason Multicam is such a big hit over here is simply because it's better than ACU. I like it but again it's not a solution to everything. Nothing is.


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## digrar (Jun 26, 2013)

Could be worse, you could be the RAAF looking at this...


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## DA SWO (Jun 26, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> I didn't receive an e or hard copy but got to look at it.
> 
> They used urban, native bush, pines, tussock areas and shorelines.
> 
> ...



It works well in New Zealand, you guys planning on a local war? (sarcasim)

How does it work where you might have to deploy?

Murphy says they will deploy to an environment where the pattern doesn't fit.


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## Mac_NZ (Jun 26, 2013)

For Afghanistan etc it should be a pretty good pattern.  For were we are really likely to deploy in the near future (SE Asia) not so much.

The problem is that we have been so spread out deployment wise that a 90% solution was not going to work.  Also all the fighting in the last decade was in Afghanistan so its really driving the bus on equipment.  Strangely though we just pulled out of there...


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## Brooklynben (Jun 27, 2013)

pardus said:


> I asked a Kiwi Vietnam vet if he wished they could've had camouflage uniforms, he said No, that soon enough they were sweating so much the OD's they were wearing had dark patches that gave a camo effect. Add web gear and shadow to the equation and its not a bad option.  What's really crazy is that the civilian market has far better camouflage than we do, and it's mostly worn to go to walmart...


 Dead center!  Not only does OD develop it's own "shades and changes" with normal use in the field, but more importantly I found it worked particularly better at not revealing movement at night.


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