# 2nd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces welcomes new commander



## Ravage (Jun 2, 2007)

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (USASOC News Service, Jun. 1, 2007) — 2nd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group conducted a Change of Command Ceremony June 1on Meadows Field here as Lt. Col. Robert C. McDowell relinquished command to Lt. Col. Heinz P. Dinter.

MORE...

Good for them ! Bad for the enemy.


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## rv808 (Jun 2, 2007)

Why are some wearing Green Berets (as it appears only the Os are), and others are wearing the Maroon one?


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## AWP (Jun 2, 2007)

Non-SF qualified personnel within an SF Battalion/ Group will wear the maroon beret as it is the organizational headgear. You will typically see this in the Support Company or HHD, but a few non-SF positions exist down to the company level.


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## rv808 (Jun 2, 2007)

Freefalling said:


> Non-SF qualified personnel within an SF Battalion/ Group will wear the maroon beret as it is the organizational headgear. You will typically see this in the Support Company or HHD, but a few non-SF positions exist down to the company level.



Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for.


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## Ravage (Jun 23, 2007)

Are the SF support guys also trained in some way like SFers ? I mean CQB, small unit tact. trained like SF in weapons handling etc. ? Or are they just "shooters" like regular grunts when shit hits the fan ?


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## Ravage (Jun 23, 2007)

fishsmom said:
			
		

> holy cat poop..where DID you get that photo marauder.. the brat on the left is mine.. thats fish! all dressed up and ready to go to 'work'.



That would be me mem. I've got it from myspace.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2007)

fishsmom said:
			
		

> holy cat poop..where DID you get that photo marauder.. the brat on the left is mine.. thats fish! all dressed up and ready to go to 'work'.



Ravage posted it initially.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2007)

Ravage said:


> Are the SF support guys also trained in some way like SFers ? I mean CQB, small unit tact. trained like SF in weapons handling etc. ? Or are they just "shooters" like regular grunts when shit hits the fan ?



Most support guys in an SF unit aren't there to be "shooters," that's the SF guys' job.  Support guys are there for specialized support areas, most of which do not involve direct combat on a regular basis.

Most support support aren't trained to nearly the same level as the SF guys.  Again, that's not their job.  I always said, if you want to do the things the SF guys do, go be SF." I always encouraged any type of training, especially training with the guys we supported, as long as our "day job" (i.e. support) didn't suffer.

If the choice is between "trained like SF" or "shooters when the shit hits the fan," then the answer is, "shooters when the shit hits the fan."

edited to add:  there are several members of the board who are SF and have a lot more time in Group than I did; they may be able to address your question better than I can.


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## Ravage (Jun 23, 2007)

'Nah I get it, thanks for the answers.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2007)

There are SF-qualified individuals who have a commo specialty (MOS 18E, one of them is a member of this site) and commo individuals who are not SF-qualified but assigned to an SF Group.

My definition of "support" in an SF unit is anyone who is not SF qualified.  That's why we get the maroon berets, and they have the green ones.  If your son is not SF-qualified, then yes I would consider him "support."  

Every situation is unique, so I wouldn't presume to know what goes on in your son's specific unit with regard to training.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 23, 2007)

fishsmom said:
			
		

> would you consider the commo guy 'suport'?
> I know my brat trains pretty much the same as the guys in his unit.. they are tight, they have to be to do what they do.
> In fact when he is not in the sandbox for summer camp, he is training most of the time.  I do not ask what.. just take it at face value.
> 
> I don't ask too much. I work under the premise the less I know the more sleep I get.  ;)


I served in a Special Forces Battalion Signal Detachment and in a Group HHC. I'd say Marauder06's description is essentially accurate, with one exception. SOT-As are supposed to be Ranger-qualified so they can keep up to some extent with the ODAs they support.



Freefalling said:


> Non-SF qualified personnel within an SF Battalion/ Group will wear the maroon beret as it is the organizational headgear. You will typically see this in the Support Company or HHD, but a few non-SF positions exist down to the company level.


At company/ODB level, I think there are only two non-18 series positions, supply sergeant and NBC NCO, but I may be wrong. It's been a while since I looked at an SF battalion MTOE.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2007)

Zapp is correct about the SOTAs- they're all "V" coded.

Although I'll have to say I can't remember a single one of my SOTAs being tabbed.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 23, 2007)

Marauder06 said:


> Zapp is correct about the SOTAs- they're all "V" coded.
> 
> Although I'll have to say I can't remember a single one of my SOTAs being tabbed.


My recollection is that it was somewhat "aspirational".  IIRC, our Group's goal was to have at least one Ranger-qualified guy and at least one 98-qualified guy, and they didn't need to be the same guy.


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## Mav (Jun 24, 2007)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> My recollection is that it was somewhat "aspirational".  IIRC, our Group's goal was to have at least one Ranger-qualified guy and at least one 98-qualified guy, and they didn't need to be the same guy.



As a 98, myself, I gotta tell you: "At LEAST on 98 guy? No one but 98 series can perform the actual function, itself, of a SOT-A. If someone is, then you've got a serious issue on your hands.." :) 

It's a problem that's going on with 7th right now, actually. Having problems fielding SOT-As because they don't have enough 98's... and the 18's and other MOSs CANNOT perform the same function. They are not authorized to.


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## surgicalcric (Jun 24, 2007)

Mav said:


> ...It's a problem that's going on with 7th right now, actually. Having problems fielding SOT-As because they don't have enough 98's...



Is not only 7th thats having that issue...



> and the 18's and other MOSs CANNOT perform the same function. They are not authorized to.



Yeah cause we wouldnt want authorization to stand in the way of anything now would we...  :doh:  lol

Crip sends


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## Marauder06 (Jun 24, 2007)

It's not just an authorization issue, *most* (not all) of the 18-series I've worked with just don't have the language ability to the SIGINT mission.  And they don't have to- that's what the 98Gs are for.


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## surgicalcric (Jun 24, 2007)

Marauder06 said:


> ...*most* (not all) of the 18-series I've worked with just don't have the language ability to the SIGINT mission...



And most of us dont care to to be honest with you.  While I need to know enough language to do my job I dont see myself using french alot and you know the saying, "use it or lose it."  Also, between the SOLT language curriculum and the amount of time we have to learn our target language at the SOAF ost of us are lucky to get a 1+, 1+ and that is hardly good enough to listen to entire conversations and get anything from it other than who and where or what.

I was more or less pointing out the fact that most of the team guys I know are gonna get the job done one way or another...

Crip sends


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## AWP (Jun 24, 2007)

fishsmom,
The 98 series of MOS' is easily Googled. 

I will say as a former SIGDET soldier that your son isn't going downrange with an ODA except under very limited circumstances. Depending on his MOS he isn't doing that at all. His training will be good, but not SF. He will not be a door kicker. He can see combat, and probably will, but he isn't going to be doing raids and ambushes and the like, no matter how much they practice it. My old SIGDET did...and in Afghanistan and now Iraq they have done zero of those missions, but plenty of convoy and guard duties where they did see combat.

To the orginal points though, your son is in a good unit but isn't going to do SF missions unless his MOS falls in a certain category and even then....we simply won't discuss those missions here. The 98 series of jobs IS easily Googled and I would suggest that you start there and work your way up to the SOT-A mission which is informational only since your son's MOS precludes him from doing that particular job.

Take care.

Pro Patria Vigilans


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## AWP (Jun 24, 2007)

Enjoy this thread while you can, gang. I'm feeling very PB today and sense a lock in the near future.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 24, 2007)

Might as well, this thread's pretty much run its course.  Might be worth starting  another thread if the 98G discussion is to continue.

'cric- comment noted.  1+/1+ is still better than any score I ever got on the DLAT.


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## AWP (Jun 24, 2007)

There are good hijacks and bad hijacks. We've had both here.


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## Polar Bear (Jun 24, 2007)

Closed


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