# Security forces



## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

I am considering a career in the military and as such I am trying to find out  more. So whith that being said I am considering the security forces in the air force and I have heard everything from its the worst job  to its the best thing I've ever did  so can anyone tell me more about the job specifically how assig entered are given out


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

All of what I've seen seems contradictory.


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## AWP (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> I am considering a career in the military and as such I am trying to find out  more. So whith that being said I am considering the security forces in the air force and I have heard everything from its the worst job  to its the best thing I've ever did  so can anyone tell me more about the job specifically how assig entered are given out



Use the search feature and enter _afsf._  You should see a number of results discussing our thoughts on the careerfield. Short version: there may be some good guys and gals in the field, but I'd avoid it like the plague.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

I guess I didn't search correctly enough apparently .Also one last thing this is more curiosity than anything but I've scoured the Web and haven't  much on the DAGRE program


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## Grey (Nov 10, 2015)

If you would like I could put you in touch with someone serving in Security Forces who could give you a more educated opinion but as FF said the search function is your best friend. From what I have seen and heard I wouldn't exactly suggest it to anyone but as with any job it has pros and cons that could make you sway either way. While in a lower rank you will spend many hours at the gate or driving around the flight line and I have yet to meet a Security Forces person who was excited about that. However, there are opportunities later on that may seem interesting and worth the wait such as Military Dog Handler or Combat Arms and they are always in need of those guys.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Glorified security guards, who believe they are MP's and Infantry, with an ego that they're the most elite unit in the world. But that's just been my experience with them, I'm sure they have good people who are very professional, I just haven't met any yet.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

Grey said:


> If you would like I could put you in touch with someone serving in Security Forces who could give you a more educated opinion but as FF said the search function is your best friend. From what I have seen and heard I wouldn't exactly suggest it to anyone but as with any job it has pros and cons that could make you sway either way. While in a lower rank you will spend many hours at the gate or driving around the flight line and I have yet to meet a Security Forces person who was excited about that. However, there are opportunities later on that may seem interesting and worth the wait such as Military Dog Handler or Combat Arms and they are always in need of those guys.


 If it's possible I would greatly appreciate it.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> Glorified security guards, who believe they are MP's and Infantry, with an ego that they're the most elite unit in the world. But that's just been my experience with them, I'm sure they have good people who are very professional, I just haven't met any yet.


May be the people you met weren't in the best of  moods for lack of a better word


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> May be the people you met weren't in the best of  moods for lack of a better word



I've actually met quite a few, trained quite a few, one who's a good friend, who branched to Infantry in the NG years later. His opinion was about the same, and no I didn't develop my opinion based on a few bad run-ins with grumpy Airmen.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> I've actually met quite a few, trained quite a few, one who's a good friend, who branched to Infantry in the NG years later. His opinion was about the same, and no I didn't develop my opinion based on a few bad run-ins with grumpy Airmen.


I don't know i tend to try to look on the brighter side of things so I figured maybet that was the case


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

No worries, good luck to you and your aspirations.


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## Gunz (Nov 10, 2015)

My personal opinion mirrors some of the other statements here, but Security Forces might be right for _you. _Your bright side is youthful optimism, that's a great thing to have. While it lasts.


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## Grey (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> If it's possible I would greatly appreciate it.


I'll look into it for you. If there are any other Air Force specific questions that you can't seem to get answered through research go ahead and shoot me a message.


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## DA SWO (Nov 10, 2015)

How low of an ASVAB score do you have, because AFSF isn't filled with rocket scientists.
Great field if you want to cross-train into another career field after 4-6 years in.
I had some great guys who were former cops, and they were glad that they were FORMER Cops.
DAGRE is AFSOC Specific, which means your odds of getting Hurlburt Field, or Cannon AFB are very low.


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## blackcoffee (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> Glorified security guards, who believe they are MP's and Infantry, with an ego that they're the most elite unit in the world. But that's just been my experience with them, I'm sure they have good people who are very professional, I just haven't met any yet.



Unfortunately accurate statement. I was with the 820th BDG, the so called "premier" Security Forces Group, and believe me they had some egos. At the end of the day you should ask yourself what your goal is, considering both professional and personal. I'm assuming since you are asking here maybe your aspirations in life are not limited to checking IDs in the blistering heat/freezing cold.

Ultimately wherever you go your friends that you will make will either make or break it. If you have any questions feel free to contact me.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> How low of an ASVAB score do you have, because AFSF isn't filled with rocket scientists.
> Great field if you want to cross-train into another career field after 4-6 years in.
> I had some great guys who were former cops, and they were glad that they were FORMER Cops.
> DAGRE is AFSOC Specific, which means your odds of getting Hurlburt Field, or Cannon AFB are very low.


Well I'm just trying to get informed so guess it's a college student's optimism


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2015)

@Rbc , did you take the advice of @Freefalling above really search out this forum on the topic?  I did just now, and I was left with a pretty strong opinion of the role, both from those who did the job, and those who interacted with them.

What is driving you to this job, your recruiter?  For what it's worth, think of your recruiter as a salesperson - he's got a quota to fill, which include specific jobs.  You have the advantage of youth, but the disadvantage of experience and cynicism.

Where do you want to be in the Air Force 5 years from now?  How about goals as a civilian after a 4 year hitch?  What is your end game?   There are MANY on this board who wish they could "do it all over again", me included.  I did not have near the resources available to you when I enlisted in 1989, just a recruiter pushing me to go to MEP's and family trying to talk me out of it. 

I'll not be so bold as to offer you advice either way, but will leave you with habit #2 of Steven Covey's 7 Habits:


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @Rbc , did you take the advice of @Freefalling above really search out this forum on the topic?  I did just now, and I was left with a pretty strong opinion of the role, both from those who did the job, and those who interacted with them.
> 
> What is driving you to this job, your recruiter?  For what it's worth, think of your recruiter as a salesperson - he's got a quota to fill, which include specific jobs.  You have the advantage of youth, but the disadvantage of experience and cynicism.
> 
> ...


November there is no recruiter pushing me I am an idealist and a first generation immigrant so I'm motivated by a genuine sense of duty and lover for this country also  I want to become a federal agent and have very rewarding career in the field and it's my opinion that the military gives me an opportunity to accomplish so much in that field and in life. So maybe it's naive will it probably is but it's what want for my life.


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## 104TN (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> ...I want to become a federal agent...


Without trying to derail this thread too much, if your long term goal is to become a special agent it may be in your best interest to consider what value your military job will have when competing for one of a limited number of special agent (SA) positions. 

For Fiscal Year 2016, the FBI advertised they're looking applicants with the following backgrounds and expertise for SA positions (copied from Current FBI Needs | FBI JOBS):

Certified Public Accountants (CPAs)
Attorneys (Prosecutor, Defense)
IT Network Administrators, Intrusions
Engineers
Detectives
Military (specifically Special Forces, Explosives, WMD, and Intelligence experts)
Scientists (Lab Experience)
Foreign Language(s) speakers (particularly Spanish, Chinese, Korean, Arabic, Urdu, Pashtu, Punjabi, Russian and Farsi)
Pilots (Helicopter, Fixed-Wing)
*Diversified (all other backgrounds or skills not specified above)
You can gain experience in nearly all of these fields in the military. Military service is great, but military service with relevant experience coupled with the degree that Tuition Assistance/your GI Bill will help you obtain will make you a more attractive SA candidate later on. There's no reason your time in the military can't be an opportunity to set yourself up for future success. Best of luck.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

rick said:


> Without trying to derail this thread too much, if your long term goal is to become a special agent it may be in your best interest to consider what value your military job will have when competing for one of a limited number of special agent (SA) positions.
> 
> For Fiscal Year 2016, the FBI advertised they're looking applicants with the following backgrounds and expertise for SA positions (copied from Current FBI Needs | FBI JOBS):
> 
> ...



Great post, I remember talking with a few CID agents about what they looked for and what they wanted when recruiting. As we all thought you had to be an MP for x many years, top performers, etc. They very few MP's make it into CID, and that they were looking for accounting and IT specialists. The expression was something of we can train the LE part to just about anyone, the specialist skills is harder, takes longer and in most demand. CID is one of the few Army units that professionalism was 100%.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

rick said:


> Without trying to derail this thread too much, if your long term goal is to become a special agent it may be in your best interest to consider what value your military job will have when competing for one of a limited number of special agent (SA) positions.
> 
> For Fiscal Year 2016, the FBI advertised they're looking applicants with the following backgrounds and expertise for SA positions (copied from Current FBI Needs | FBI JOBS):
> 
> ...


Well I was thinking more secret service but I get the point


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> Great post, I remember talking with a few CID agents about what they looked for and what they wanted when recruiting. As we all thought you had to be an MP for x many years, top performers, etc. They very few MP's make it into CID, and that they were looking for accounting and IT specialists. The expression was something of we can train the LE part to just about anyone, the specialist skills is harder, takes longer and in most demand. CID is one of the few Army units that professionalism was 100%.


Okay  now I'm at a lost part of the reason I'm looking at security forces was in was under the impression that in addition to force protection they did  law enforcement  and that there was a possibility of going into Osi in addition to the opportunites for specialized training they seem to have so was  I wrong ?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> Okay  now I'm at a lost part of the reason I'm looking at security forces was in was under the impression that in addition to force protection they did  law enforcement  and that there was a possibility of going into Osi in addition to the opportunites for specialized training they seem to have so was  I wrong ?



As per the AFOSI Enlisted FAQ, they recruit from all career fields and doesn't list Security Forces as prerequisite.

Air Force OSI - Enlisted FAQ


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> As per the AFOSI Enlisted FAQ, they recruit from all career fields and doesn't list Security Forces as prerequisite.
> 
> Air Force OSI - Enlisted FAQ


I see  so  is it just one of those  fields where  it varies  wildly?


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## Ranger Psych (Nov 10, 2015)

Here's the thing:

SP's are just military police. Military police in a service that only has one place to put the washouts of everything else that is mentally or physically harder......

Yes, they do law enforcement. You have to look at things from a vast majority standpoint:  What does AFSF do.... they drive a truck around an airport, sometimes at a government section of a private airport, scare off people trying to drive on, check ID's with a ill founded sense of superiority, and do base law enforcement. 

All the johnny highspeed stuff isn't really that high speed, and even when they are johnny highspeed, they're really not, still. Everyone laughs and points.

 I have to point back at the original thing I just said.... In the USAF, IF YOU FAIL OTHER MOS TRAINING, you get sent to security forces. 

At least in the Army, everyone who's an MP actually wanted to be an MP.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> I see  so  is it just one of those  fields where  it varies  wildly?



I really wouldn't know. I think if you're looking for LE experience, security forces is probably not where you will find it. They are more like a mix of security guards and traffic patrol, I'm sure they have some senior enlisted who conduct investigations of low level crime's, but very few.

Another thing to think about, is most LEA's don't really view military police as real law enforcement experience. They are normally giving you preferences b/c of military discipline and leadership skills. In other words you probably have the same preferences with the secret service as a aircraft mechanic as you would security forces. As a matter of fact, as far as federal hiring preference points, its even Steven for anyone who served 90 days active duty and has a honorable discharge.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Here's the thing:
> 
> SP's are just military police. Military police in a service that only has one place to put the washouts of everything else that is mentally or physically harder......
> 
> ...


Okay


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## 104TN (Nov 10, 2015)

Rbc said:


> Well I was thinking more secret service but I get the point


Replace FBI with any other agency that hires SAs and my advice still more or less holds true. You can apply for an SA position with an Honorable Discharge, tangible experience in an agency focus area (accounting, network engineering, languages, prostitutes), and a relevant degree and still not be invited to progress through the application process if the candidate pool is strong.

If you want to be Security Forces there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I wish you the best of luck in pursuing that endeavor. Everyone's service is valuable - even if not in a position others find sexy. Just don't fool yourself into believing that specific AFSC is somehow going to make you a shoe-in (or even competitive) for an SA position down the road. You'll be disappointed. The AF has a ton of other career fields that would strengthen your resume more.


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## DA SWO (Nov 10, 2015)

JAB said:


> Great post, I remember talking with a few CID agents about what they looked for and what they wanted when recruiting. As we all thought you had to be an MP for x many years, top performers, etc. They very few MP's make it into CID, and that they were looking for accounting and IT specialists. The expression was something of we can train the LE part to just about anyone, the specialist skills is harder, takes longer and in most demand. CID is one of the few Army units that professionalism was 100%.


CID is good, but they have their 10% too.


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## Rbc (Nov 10, 2015)

rick said:


> Replace FBI with any other agency that hires SAs and my advice still more or less holds true. You can apply for an SA position with an Honorable Discharge, tangible experience in an agency focus area (accounting, network engineering, languages, prostitutes), and a relevant degree and still not be invited to progress through the application process if the candidate pool is strong.
> 
> If you want to be Security Forces there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I wish you the best of luck in pursuing that endeavor. Everyone's service is valuable - even if not in a position others find sexy. Just don't fool yourself into believing that specific AFSC is somehow going to make you a shoe-in (or even competitive) for an SA position down the road. You'll be disappointed. The AF has a ton of other career fields that would strengthen your resume more.


The main agency I'm looking at is the diplomatic security service which doestrogen force protection partly but so part of the reason I'm looking at the security forces but I understand and no  I don't think that would make a shoe-in but I understand.


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## policemedic (Nov 11, 2015)

Rbc said:


> The main agency I'm looking at is the diplomatic security service which doestrogen force protection partly but so part of the reason I'm looking at the security forces but I understand and no  I don't think that would make a shoe-in but I understand.



You don't know what you want and you're not doing your own research.


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## AKkeith (Nov 11, 2015)

Rbc said:


> The main agency I'm looking at is the diplomatic security service which doestrogen force protection partly but so part of the reason I'm looking at the security forces but I understand and no  I don't think that would make a shoe-in but I understand.


Having worked side by side with diplomatic security specialists and RSOs in Yemen (immediately before the country fell), I can tell you being AFSF isn't going to help you. Go look at their job postings on USAJobs.gov. I was looking at that position because I figured it would be an easy transition for me. All they care about is you have a "4 year degree in any discipline," they wouldn't hire me for that same position even though I had on the ground experience but will happily take an art history major for the job.


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## Ranger Psych (Nov 11, 2015)

With regard to job utility outside of the service.....  some agencies actually may give you credit for having served, but will use red pen due to having been an MP/SP/etc, because of the bad habits learned compared to "real" law enforcement.

Think about it: You're in an environment where everyone is basically respectful, knows that they're held by UCMJ. They know if they give law enforcement on base a hard time, that they don't only have to answer to repurcussions within UCMJ and the MP's, but also within their chain of command... so it's a double wammy.  Generally speaking, you take your licks with regards to dealing with MP's. Backtalk, resisting, etc, while something MP's train to deal with, it's not something they GET to deal with and therefore really exercise verbal judo on de-escalation, bla de blah.

Due to this generally safe environment, complacency is bred... this complacency allows Ranger squads to come within arms reach of sleeping MP Specialists inside of their patrol cars, and scare the everliving shit out of them... Who said morning PT is always boring...

*-----Edited to add some clarification-----*

To further explain the "double whammy" concept, since you and others possibly reading don't understand law enforcement as it relates to those in the military... and mind you, this is pretty much second hand information as I kept my nose clean* and my minions of mass destruction feared what I am about to describe MORE than law enforcement's actions themselves... @Teufel @Marauder06 feel free to chime in to correct anything. 

When you are in the military, You're assigned to a unit. Regardless if you're the 153rd Field Sanitation Division or the 1st Black Ops Brigade, You have a commanding officer of some sort or another that owns your ass, figuratively. They have a "MP/SP/etc Blotter" they get from the post MP's. Anything any shitheads do, that they own, that results in any actual "Action" from on-post law enforcement....from getting a speeding ticket, driving without insurance, cracking a skull at the E-club, you name it on post, they are informed about. If you fuck up bad enough to actually get locked up, you aren't RELEASED until your chain of command comes and takes you. 

So, what this means, is that your Chain of Command KNOWS if you fucked up. Fuck up bad enough, and you may have restrictions put in place upon your person. This whole ball of shit also rolls downhill and gains speed. Too many tickets? You may have your driving privileges revoked by your command. Too many issues while drinking? Direct lawful order to abstain from imbibing. Don't do as you're told there? Article 15's on top of your post-level shit you have to deal with. That means extra duty as assigned, reduction of rank, and forfeiture of a portion of your pay. Nevermind anything your NCO's may cook up if you're being a constant turd burglar.  

This misbehavior also shows up when it comes to promotions, order of merit list stuff for schools, who's going to go on shit details, etc etc etc.  Most people end up (rightfully) being more afraid of chain of command repercussions than anything that an MP could/would do to them. 

* or just was smart enough to not get caught in the first fucking place, or knew the MP's, etc etc...


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## Grey (Nov 12, 2015)

Rbc said:


> I see  so  is it just one of those  fields where  it varies  wildly?



As said before, OSI recruits from all career fields. Being Security Forces would have no impact at all. If that is a goal of yours then you better come in and start building an impressive package. (You should do your best regardless). I believe you can apply once you're a Staff so you would have some time in whatever career field you end up in.


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