# 1208 ASPOC/A&S



## ordman (May 14, 2012)

Good day gents,

I'm looking to communicate with some Marines that plan on attending this next ASPOC/A&S in August. I'm an ordnanceman in the airwing and haven't had to ruck since bootcamp or MCT so thats been my primary focus. I've been studying land nav for a while and have a strong knowledge base but I'd like to actually do a course for obvious reasons. My rucking time right now is 12 miles in 2h 54 min with a 60lb ruck...the terrain I work on has plenty of slopes (Souther California). I can tread in water 40 min easy with cammies (no boots) and alternating between the breathe stroke and side stroke I swam 400 meters in 12 min 42 sec last week. These are pretty much my first timed events; I have room for improvement.

I don't have any training questions as they've been answered on this site 4x over but I'd like to do some networking to raise my standards or help someone raise theirs. Any comments/advice/rants are highly appreciated!! -ordman

Side note- In regard to the Marines in 03 MOSs with combat experience and knowledge: I consider it a huge privilege to even be able to try out for MARSOC, just know that I am aware of that.


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## ordman (May 15, 2012)

Let me correct myself on the swim, that's 300 meters not 400.


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## larscout (May 16, 2012)

Im hoping to be attending August ASPOC and A&S.  Awaiting my UMO signature then submitting.  

On topic, being a reservist and managing my training is quite a challenge but I have a pretty good schedule.  Also not having a pool available to me I have been trying to work on my strength endurance and cardio.  I've modified the recommended MARSOC training schedule.

I have yetto time my rucking but I carry a weighted pack everywhere I go.  Even at my civilian job.  I focus on my cardio with long distance and HIIT runs, body weight circuits and stretching is a target for me.  I'm  also continuously toughing my feet.

I plan on doing some land nav in the local wooded areas and am attending the Reserve Infantry Squad Leaders Course to improve as much as I can.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming MARSOC challenges.

Edit: I'm also following a strict diet and be as light as possible without sacrificing a proper fitness level.


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## ordman (May 16, 2012)

Good stuff larscout, I actually just got back from Coronado. The UMO down there turned out to be really helpful; he expedited the stagnant signature process and walked me to the guy in charge of routing my waiver (I have a prior NJP from 2009 which requires a waiver). He also told me to swim a mile an 1/2 without stopping which is now my new goal.  My extension package is in routing and my CO and SgtMaj have already signed off on the screening checklist.

Sounds like your doing what you can with not having a pool, I hear the row machine is a good substitute for that as well. Let me know how the land nav goes, thats one of my training priorities right now. I bought a compass but I can't track down a map of this course out here (MCAS Miramar). You said wooded area...East coast?

*If anyone knows a land nav course I can do on the west coast please let me know!

I've read some previous posts on here with ruck times, I'm using those as my goals. My diet is pretty on point too, I've been stretching and rolling out muscles with this cylindrical foam thing my doc told me to use. Thanks for replying, good luck at the Infantry Squad Leader Course.


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## GangsterFish3/7 (May 19, 2012)

Ordman- I'm at Pendleton and also attending Aug 15 class.  Your rick is on point. Try to get your swim sub 11. 1030 was very competitive last time I was there. They'll give you a class on Land Nav before you actually do it so don't sweat it. Also, remember vans (aka objective points) can't go to far off the road ;). I'm an 0351, and most people that go there aren't 03's, so don't worry about that. Doesn't matter what your MOS is. Everyone there has no clout, no rank, and no MOS. everyone is there to learn and is treated the same. Good luck to you.


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## AKkeith (May 19, 2012)

Ill be attending the August/Sept class as well. Unfortunatly some things arose right before the April/May class that wouldn't allow me to go. My friend went and made it all the way through but they told him he needs to be a little more vocal and invited him back to this class so he will be attending too.


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## GangsterFish3/7 (May 19, 2012)

^sweet see you guys there. Any of to guys at Pendleton?


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## BoomerTG1 (May 20, 2012)

what would be desirable 300m swim times with out cammies?


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## GangsterFish3/7 (May 20, 2012)

Honestly bro, anything sub 12min you're good. Without cammies I'd say you should be killin it at 9-930. But really, I'm not evaluating you.. They are.. And they just want to see you put out max effort and be a team player, just don't eliminate yourself. That's what everyone does. Be confident and don't psych yourself out!


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## SkrewzLoose (May 21, 2012)

BoomerTG1 said:


> what would be desirable 300m swim times with out cammies?


 300m slick (just shorts)?  I'd say 6-7 minutes.  I did my 500 yards in 10 minutes and was consistently in the middle of the pack.  Different pipeline though.


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## ordman (May 21, 2012)

My swim time has been improving alot, last week I cleared 300 meters using the sidestroke in 9:33. There's a Youtube video on sidestroke techniques (



). My rucking is coming along pretty well, I tried to focus on speed for a shorter distance of 6 miles last week with a 60lb ruck, that time was 1:20. This week I'll do the full 12 miles with a 45lb ruck.

Is anyone married on here? Shoot me an email if you are, I'm trying to get the probability of getting your preferred duty station after ITC...IF I were to get selected then make it through ITC.


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## ordman (May 21, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> 300m slick (just shorts)? I'd say 6-7 minutes. I did my 500 yards in 10 minutes and was consistently in the middle of the pack. Different pipeline though.


 Was that without cammies?


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## SkrewzLoose (May 21, 2012)

ordman said:


> Was that without cammies?


Yes.  His question was about swimming without cammies, or slick.  We wore just UDT shorts.  Do you guys do it differently?


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## ordman (May 21, 2012)

No, all my times that I post on here are with cammies, no boots. After I time myself I usually freestyle swim 200-400 meters slick.


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## ordman (May 21, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> 300m slick (just shorts)? I'd say 6-7 minutes. I did my 500 yards in 10 minutes and was consistently in the middle of the pack. Different pipeline though.


 I just swam 500 meters in about 10 minutes, give 59 seconds (I didn't have my watch, had to look at the digital clock on the wall). This was using freestyle, side-stroke and breathe stroke--slick. After that I ran 3 miles, I didn't time that. Thanks for the time skrewz, this is why I like for people to post times; I can motivate myself against someone who is faster than me or help motivate someone who is slower. I'll post my 12 mile ruck time towards the end of the week.


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## is friday (May 21, 2012)

Anybody that is on Pendleton feel free to utilize me as a resource. I've been to A&S and made it through only to be a non-select. Currently in the Recon pipeline, albeit injured. I'm a Personal Trainer, too, so I can definitely help you tighten up your routine to be more economical.


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## GangsterFish3/7 (May 21, 2012)

is friday said:


> Anybody that is on Pendleton feel free to utilize me as a resource. I've been to A&S and made it through only to be a non-select. Currently in the Recon pipeline, albeit injured. I'm a Personal Trainer, too, so I can definitely help you tighten up your routine to be more economical.


why werent you selected^^


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## is friday (May 21, 2012)

There's a number of reasons why, but I don't know specifically on what caused the pass-over. (I have a good idea.) I was counseled and given a few "tips" but they were for me, not for GP. Any of the reasons why I was a non-select will have little bearing on anyone else going through the course.


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## SkrewzLoose (May 22, 2012)

ordman said:


> I just swam 500 meters in about 10 minutes, give 59 seconds (I didn't have my watch, had to look at the digital clock on the wall). This was using freestyle, side-stroke and breathe stroke--slick. After that I ran 3 miles, I didn't time that. Thanks for the time skrewz, this is why I like for people to post times; I can motivate myself against someone who is faster than me or help motivate someone who is slower. I'll post my 12 mile ruck time towards the end of the week.


 
What's the "breathe stroke"?  Are you allowed to change your swimming stroke during the test?


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## ordman (May 22, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> What's the "breathe stroke"? Are you allowed to change your swimming stroke during the test?


 Wow, I'm an idiot. The "breast stroke" is what I meant. I don't know if we're allowed to change styles during the test, all it says on the prerequisites is to "swim 300 meters continuously...".


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## SkrewzLoose (May 22, 2012)

Gotcha.  Might want to check on that.  That way you can find out which swimming stroke suits you best and allows you a competitive time and focus on becoming extremely proficient at that.


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## ordman (May 22, 2012)

That makes sense, if thats something anyone can tell me I'd be glad to know. Do you have anything for that **isfriday?


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## SkrewzLoose (May 22, 2012)

ordman said:


> That makes sense, if thats something anyone can tell me I'd be glad to know. Do you have anything for that **isfriday?


 
Demonstrate at A&S the ability to properly conduct abandon ship drill 6 m platform, 300 m swim (breast or side stroke) in utilities, tread water for 10 min while in utilities, & transition to survival float using blouse or trousers for 5 min. 

I found that here 
So, sounds like you use one or the other.


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## ordman (May 22, 2012)

Minus 5, poor SA on my part; I've probably read that 100 times.


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## AKkeith (May 22, 2012)

Im in Pendleton and wouldn't mind having a training partner for the swimming portion. That is going to be the part I am going to need the most work.


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## mac21 (May 22, 2012)

We were able to switch between the two strokes as desired when I attended ASPOC.


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## ordman (May 22, 2012)

Thanks mac. Keith, I went to the pool and started talking to a guy treading water in cammies, turns out hes going in August as well. We traded contact info and are going to start rucking/swimming together. A training partner helps and so does this website. Shoot me an email if you want to trade times and compete.


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## AKkeith (May 22, 2012)

Yeah I'll pm you. What pool do you go to?


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## GangsterFish3/7 (May 22, 2012)

ordman said:


> Wow, I'm an idiot. The "breast stroke" is what I meant. I don't know if we're allowed to change styles during the test, all it says on the prerequisites is to "swim 300 meters continuously...".


you can switch between side stroke and breath stroke all you want. i dont know about freestyle though. but that sucks in cammies anyway


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## 0331 (May 23, 2012)

whats going on gents got sent here from my intro see a a lot of you going to the Aug class that I also will be joining you all. I have been doing a modified 10 week prep myself to get ready, as in doing the work out plus more so adding crossfit everyday before, after, or during the set workouts on the list.  I always do run swim run with some crossfit good workouts for that can be found here www.frogmanchallenge.com , since we dont have the ability to have a gym on the deck I go to the crossfit gym on base and run to the pool about a 1.5m light jog something to think about an get some wods from there.  On running days I never keep time just something I dont do if I am not dieing or puking I wasnt pushing to go faster at the end an on the days for Med pace runs I still keep the pace up to me having to take some deep breaths an slow it down.  I never do the short card to me doing crossfit everyday but everything on the short cart put together is a crossfit type wod.  The hiking well its hiking even being an 03 and a machine gunner on top of that yea the MOS no one wanted because we had to carry the guns on the little SOI hikes, I still catch myself being winded at about 3-4 miles not broke off but you know the rest is still going to suck.  My knowledge on hiking tho before you ever worry about boots socks and where the hike is going its all about how u pack your ruck! heavy on bottom? heavy on top? fold it nicely? pack your sleeping system in the open spaces an cracks to make everything tight?  All these questions plays the biggest factor.  If your not confident in your ruck how its packed an your straps you already failed that ruck march.  I completed week 1 last week my timed march was 38:01 3mile staying around a 13 min mile deff could of pushed myself faster just getting in the feel of pacing myself an running, because from what I have read after you ruck the day isnt over its never over so getting my leg strength to a solid pace to be able to put out still in other big events will help when its selection or maybe it wont but thats whats leads me to my other quick topic.  Mental tuff I learned a good mental exercise it will be hard doing it by yourself but my lt would do it to us before we deployed, on our morning pt runs hit the beach or run, sprint you know morning pt but when we would be going back to our stage point well we would just turn another way.  Run for another mile or so but watching marines just break down an make the poop face an some shed a tear but some you can see that hey its morning pt with lt you knew this would happen.  So we all know we are going to A&S its starting back at T1 in bootcamp you dont know whats about to happen but you mentally prepared by saying to yourself its going to be tuff only the few and all that beltfed stuff but now your here, So yes the 10 week training is ruff an makes you want to rethink your options but just know when it comes to A&S T1 fight dont fly see how mentally and physically you can push and I bet by the end everyone that reads in these forums will be selected power of knowledge of knowing and reading.

thanks everyone for taken the time to read my soapbox rant but I take this serious because i'am a professional gunmen and anthlete striving for a new team with a harder tryout and good luck to all with training less then 60 days.


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## 0331 (May 23, 2012)

Correction less then 90 days ^


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## SkrewzLoose (May 23, 2012)

0331 said:


> ~entire post~




You may want to use some more punctuation, proper grammar and clean up your sentences a bit in order to convey your message more clearly.  I don't know if you were typing all that on a phone, but it hurt my brain and my eyes trying to read it and keep track/make sense of what you were saying.  I'm not trying to pick on you by any means, just a suggestion so that you can get the type of feedback you're looking for.  

P/S You'll find that being able to convey your thoughts in a logical manner will go a long way, not only on this site, but in your military and civilian career(s).


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## ordman (May 23, 2012)

0331, for my first couple of humps I threw a 50lb weight I bought from Play It Again Sports into a ruck then packed it with other random gear, it felt like crap. I see how packing the ruck is a big deal when it comes to weight distribution. I've also been trying to mentally push my pain barriers with crossfit workouts. The crossfit scene is new to me, I'm starting out with some example workouts "Uncle Petey" posted in the mentor section.

I'll say that the people who read this forum do have an edge, it's priceless to get advice from so many different backgrounds.


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## 0331 (May 23, 2012)

Sorry I'am on my phone feel like a douche for putting that up.  For now on I'll stick to small stuff on my phone thanks.


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## SkrewzLoose (May 23, 2012)

0331 said:


> Sorry I'am on my phone feel like a douche for putting that up. For now on I'll stick to small stuff on my phone thanks.


 
Not a big deal, my friend.  This site has a wealth of information on it, just trying to help you get what you're looking for.


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## HoboHeart (May 23, 2012)

Hey Fellas,

I'll be joining you all for ASPOC/A&S this August as well. I'm a reservist, and am fortunate to have quite a lot of time and freedom to train. I'm breaking in to week 5 of the prep guide and it's really noticeable the progress I'm making. Even in areas where my times aren't dramatically improving I notice how much more fluidly I'm moving through the exercises, and that I'm recovering (and not ralphing all over myself) quicker.

I'm most satisfied with the progress I've made on the short card. I started the program not in my best shape, and suffered through a short card in about 18 minutes. By week 5 I clocked in at 12:39, with two in succession at 29:47.

I'm making more subtle progress in the pool and doing 300m slick in about 7:30, which hasn't changed dramatically since the start. But I'm now able to hold my breath for a minute, and can do successive 25m crossovers with about two minutes of rest in between. And finally, with some common sense applied, I finally figured out the flip turn.

For rucking I'm using the suggested 45 lbs ALICE pack. I live in a studio in Downtown Seattle, so items to pack it with were a bit hard to come by. Initially I used anything I could find with some weight to it; i.e. canned goods from my pantry. Prefering to eat those canned goods I went to Home Depot and bought a bag of play sand and empty sandbags, and made myself a few pills. I've now got a 25 lbs pill in the radio pouch of my ruck, and packed clothes and an extra pair of boots as filler. It's pretty cozy now. Here's my times: 3 mi/30 mins; 5 mi/52 mins; 8.5 mi/2:21; 12 mi/2:52. To the best of my ability I'm hauling ass through these. I basically shuffle until I'm tired, then walk briskly until I can shuffle again. I'm also practicing changing socks around the halfway point. I'm wearing Injinji socks inside Covert Thread socks, and a newer pair of Bates lights I'm breaking in. My feet are pretty happy.

The only setback I've experienced have been shin splints during my longer runs starting in week 4. I've always been a strong long-distance runner, never in my life suffering from them. Months before starting the program I switched over to running and lifting in Vibrams, which may be the culprit along with a combination of all the stress on my legs from the other routines. I took a week off from running, and indulged in some advice written by our MARSOC mentor and cut out my creatine supplementation. Yesterday I pushed through that 12 mi ruck without experiencing any shin pain, although I have yet to go for a long distance run; I'll report whether or not I defeated shin splints later on.

Ordman, good call on starting this thread. If you haven't already pumped Uncle Petey for advice I would definitely recommend that. We should all stay in touch over the next couple months. I know I'm getting anxious. 

If there's any SOF hopefuls in Seattle wanting to get together and train, shoot me a message.


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## Uncle Petey (May 23, 2012)

Stretch, and ice, practice your Pose Technique,  warm up really well, then do short high intensity versus multi-mile runs.  Then add distance as you get more comfortable.


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## HoboHeart (May 23, 2012)

You're right, I'm a dumb jarhead who's long neglected the value of stretching. At 27 I'm almost an old man in Marine years, and I'll need to embrace stretching more if I want some longevity in this business. This last week I've really been prioritzing a quick warm up before and a hard stretch after a session, and I notice I'm a lot less miserable the next day.


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## Uncle Petey (May 23, 2012)

Post work out use static stretches. Pre-Workout do dynamic warm ups, with more mobility type work.


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## Salt USMC (May 24, 2012)

Uncle Petey said:


> Post work out use static stretches. Pre-Workout do dynamic warm ups, with more mobility type work.


 
Off-topic, but I'm starting to the Marine Corps writ large starting to embrace this idea and its a great sight to see.  Its great that we've finally accepted some modern exercise science, hopefully it'll cut down on the number of exercise injuries.


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## AKkeith (May 24, 2012)

Those are some good ruck times. Pretty similar to mine. Are you jogging at all or do you just have a large stride? When I met with some CSOs and talked about my training they told me to slow down a bit. I was averaging 10 minute miles with my pack but most of it was a jog. They told me there wouldn't be a need to jog with a ruck in A&S and it increases your chances of an injury. 

Also I don't know if it is a mistype but is there an hour and thirty minute difference between your 5 mile and 8 mile?


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## ordman (May 24, 2012)

I bought a pair of Bates Lites about two weeks ago and wore them for one day. People swear by them but they weren't right for me, the heel portion didn't have enough space for me and it was the kind of hot spot that breaking in wouldn't fix. I don't know what style of Bates I have now but the tread is alot thicker and it fits my heel pretty well, they're a bit heavier but I'd rather that than zombie feet. This is my second pair of boots I'm breaking in; the first pair are Danners.  

I broke 9 minutes on the 300 meter swim yesterday: 8min 54sec w/ cammies. I'm pretty confident in the pool, I've also been doing this "H20 bootcamp" thing which is basically swimming/calisthenics for an hour. 

I also bought 3 pair of the Ijinji sock liners. I used them once so far, after this saturday I'll report how they did on the 12 miler. Thanks for the post rrd42, keep us up with the progress and turn those canned goods into the homeless shelter lol.


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## HoboHeart (May 24, 2012)

Keith- I'm combining a glorified shuffle with a brisk stride. Anything "joggier" and I'd be worried about beating up my knees too hard. Funny though, because I met a guy on deployment who finished A&S but wasn't selected, whose biggest regret was not training to run under his ruck during his build up. I figure I can make the 4 hour time limit for the initial 12 miles without hauling ass, but like everybody else I'd like to be competitive. If they're in fact not running under a ruck at A&S you won't see me shed a tear, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Good eye, the day of the 8.5 miler was a long one. I live in Seattle, which makes great training as the second-hilliest city in the US, and I'm doing most of my humps within and around it. I felt masochistic that day and wanted to see what the top of the city looked like, so half of that trip was a ball-buster up a fairly steep incline. I've been picking flatter trails for the shorter speed humps and more diverse terrain for the long endurance ones.


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## AKkeith (May 24, 2012)

Ok I gotcha. Yeah I was just training over by Seattle but now I moved to Pendleton. It's good training with all the hills and then at A&S the terrain will be flatter so well have a good advantage with that.


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## is friday (May 24, 2012)

You guys that are on Pendleton: Since I'm mostly recovered from my injury now I would not mind helping you guys tune up your swim strokes. I only used to do sidestroke but now I'm pretty good at breaststroke, too. This would probably have to be in the first two weeks of June, though, since I'll more than likely belong to MART/BRC again after that. No way will you catch me near a body of water willingly after I get back into that training cycle.


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## AKkeith (May 25, 2012)

Haha. I'll hit up you. Pm Incomiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnng!


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## 0331 (May 26, 2012)

Whats going on gents bored friday with the wife at work and me sticking to no drinking or going out on the weekends for a&s, i decided to do a night ruck with just myself.  Something you guys should try once or twice something we most likely will do while in selection.  It was good just did 3 miles came in around 38mins trying to find my foot and staying calm in some pretty dark places on base.  Thinking it might help some get comfortable for moving at night for who doesn't do that on the normal and some mental prep, something to think about have a good holiday thanks all.


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## mp52026 (May 26, 2012)

I'm new on this forum and I'm going to the August ASPOC too. Im in good shape overall, but I just started swimming about two weeks ago. I think my 300m time is decent for just starting (12:57). I'm not getting tired. I just haven't figured out good form yet. Do you guys just swim laps to get faster or is there a better way to train like HIIT for running? Also, treading is destroying me. I can't figure it out. I just sink. What is a good technique with cammies on? A lot of advice I find online is for treading slick and it isn't working. I know we have to tread for 10 min on the first day of A &S, but what is a good time to train for. I imagine we'll have to tread for much longer, probably with no hands and holding things out of the water too.


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## Marauder06 (May 26, 2012)

mp52026 said:


> I'm new on this forum and I'm going to the August ASPOC too. Im in good shape overall, but I just started swimming about two weeks ago. I think my 300m time is decent for just starting (12:57). I'm not getting tired. I just haven't figured out good form yet. Do you guys just swim laps to get faster or is there a better way to train like HIIT for running? Also, treading is destroying me. I can't figure it out. I just sink. What is a good technique with cammies on? A lot of advice I find online is for treading slick and it isn't working. I know we have to tread for 10 min on the first day of A &S, but what is a good time to train for. I imagine we'll have to tread for much longer, probably with no hands and holding things out of the water too.


 
One thing that may serve you well in ASPOC is situational awareness.  You did not demonstrate good situational awareness by familiarizing yourself with the site rules and making the required initial intro post.  Please fix that before you make any more posts.  Thanks.


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## ordman (May 26, 2012)

0331- Thats a good idea I haven't thought about that. I was thinking; what if instead of trying to keep a pace count to gauge your distance, you timed yourself on a mile a few times and got the average time it took. I remember using my pace count at Cpls course and I was always off about 500 paces, would it be as accurate to use a moderate paced average time of 1 mile? 

I did my Saturday morning ruck this morning: 60lb pack-1st 3 miles in 35 min, 6 miles in 1 hour 16 min, 9 miles  in 1 hour 59 min then coming in at 2 hours and 44 min at the 12 mile mark. This is better than my first 12 mile time so I'm getting results...however that was after a full nights sleep, a nice breakfast and completely on my terms. I wore the injiji sock liners...they gave the hot spots a wider dispersion of friction which was good for that distance, that might just mean bigger blisters for a longer distance though, idk.

Mp- I got my swim time down by swimming a shit ton (cammies and slick), I also have the opportunity to participate in an "h2o boot camp" which is pretty much a pool thrashing, if there's anything like that where your stationed it's good for getting used to water and breathing.

I'm going to take a light week this next week before this training obsession lands me an injury, have a good Memorial Day gents.


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## AWP (May 26, 2012)

ordman said:


> 0331- Thats a good idea I haven't thought about that. I was thinking; what if instead of trying to keep a pace count to gauge your distance, you timed yourself on a mile a few times and got the average time it took. I remember using my pace count at Cpls course and I was always off about 500 paces, would it be as accurate to use a moderate paced average time of 1 mile?


 
I'm honestly trying to help and not be a dick, but do you guys know about handrailing and attack points?


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## ordman (May 26, 2012)

Ears: Open. I'm a POG and have no clue what that is.


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## ordman (May 26, 2012)

I just googled that, I'm familiar with it somewhat. I learned it as a "deliberate offset", better used against a linear landmark or some another easily identifiable point. Thanks for the tip freefalling I'll study that.


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## AWP (May 26, 2012)

No worries. I'm sure the more experienced guys will stop me if I wander too far off course. (I crack me up)

Here we go:

Attack points: Say you have a....6k movement or whatever. Even on good terrain with a good body (sleep, food, injuries) things happen. So, you plot your 6k or whatever leg and look for nearby, clearly distinguished terrain features, things you can find night or day, at the end of that 6k. Intersections (two roads, a road and a blue line, two blue lines) make for great attack points. Shoot your azimuth to said intersection knowing that you only have 100-200 meters from it to your point. 1-200 meters is a lot better for one's pace count than 6k, right?

Now haul ass. Seriously. Shoot your azimuth, stay on it, don't fall into holes, and haul ass to the attack point. Once there you shoot your azimuth to the point you really need and then you have a short walk to get there....and NOW you worry about your pace count plus you picked up a bunch of time even with the slightly increased distance. An intersection is a LOT easier to find after running 6k than a 4x4 post. :)

Handrailing: Kind of the same thing. No attack points but you have a terrain feature that loosely parallels your route? Treat it like a hand rail and follow it. I've never seen a land nav course where walking on the roads was kosher...but you can handrail a road by 10m or so or a blue line or ridge or whatever. Hand rail to a point (bend in the road for example) and then pick up your pace count from there.

With both methods you are taking that 6, 8, 12k movement and reducing it down to only a few hundred meters or less where you have to concentrate and worry about your pace count. The rest of the time you are moving out and terrain associating.

"Alright, 247 degrees, I have a spur on my left and I'm moving downhill. Check. That spur peters out and then I hit a trail crossing a creek. Run, Forrest, run."

Make sense or did I lose anyone?


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## ordman (May 26, 2012)

That's good shit freefalling.


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## Uncle Petey (May 26, 2012)

Don't ever make cheesey Drill Instructor phrasology anywhere near the Marsoc thread...


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## ordman (May 26, 2012)

Point taken Uncle Petey, I'm a work in progress.


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## Salt USMC (May 27, 2012)

Good trash ya unnerstan' me?


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## 0331 (May 27, 2012)

to all trying the swim portion I'am a MCIWS so the best way to get faster in the water is be in the water everyday.  If its a light swim or a thrash, best thing to look in to is water aerobics cards (make sure you have a buddy) .  Any other swim questions toss my way or if anyone can help with input.  Freefalling nice refresh thanks I forgot all about the word handrailing last time I read that was bridgeport,  but attack points did that all the time on patrols, but wouldnt call them attack points just a check point or control point before moving to anything with a time has priority type thing. good stuff for all that haven't done that in awhile stuff to look up and refresh treat every point as actions on target, have a good holiday


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## Jmotivator (May 29, 2012)

GangsterFish3/7 said:


> Ordman- I'm at Pendleton and also attending Aug 15 class. Your rick is on point. Try to get your swim sub 11. 1030 was very competitive last time I was there. They'll give you a class on Land Nav before you actually do it so don't sweat it. Also, remember vans (aka objective points) can't go to far off the road ;). I'm an 0351, and most people that go there aren't 03's, so don't worry about that. Doesn't matter what your MOS is. Everyone there has no clout, no rank, and no MOS. everyone is there to learn and is treated the same. Good luck to you.


GangsterFish3/7...I am not sure who or from where you are getting your information, just remember that anything that takes place from the conduct of A&S is confidential, that includes just about any detail that can be given on how/or when you will be evaluated. So be careful on what you are posting here.


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## Jmotivator (May 29, 2012)

I just got back from A&S and got selected, and I can guarantee you that the non-disclosure agreement is something the cadre and staff take very seriously, don't hurt your chances by trying to "help" anyone.


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## ProPatria (May 29, 2012)

Just to add what Free was saying about aids to navigation (I know it's a few days old but nav is own of my very few areas of expertise that pertain to a lot of things on this site). The use of handrails and backstops are 2 VERY key instructional tools to set you up for success when navigating on your own in the woods.

I don't know what terrain you will be navigating on so I will throw this in there just in case. DO NOT use swamps, streams or any small body of water that can be influenced by a small family of beavers to handrail. Beavers can change a course of water in a matter of 24 hours and chances are the ground won't have been surveyed and maps printed off the day before you being your nav course.

A big thing in my line of work is doing a proper map recce before stepping off towards an objective, be it a nav point or an enemy position is one of the most important things you can do. From that you will determine some good handrails and backstops that can be used to aid your movement.

Another point to add, make your your magnetic declination is bang on and set in your compass before stepping off. Having it a few mils off with throw you off course by (potentially) a good distance, depending on the distance between your legs on the nav course.

That stuff may or may not come in handy when prepping for your selection, hopefully it does. I'm by no means an SME on this stuff, I'm just a reconnaissance guy.


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## mac21 (May 29, 2012)

Jmotivator, nothing about actual A&S is discussed here, just the ASPOC aspect of it.


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## HoboHeart (May 29, 2012)

Training note: I managed to kick my shin splints. I took a week and a half off from distance running, prioritized a warm up before and a hard stretch after training, cut out creatine from my diet, and popped 800 mg of Ibuprofen before bed every night. I just pounded 5 miles of pavement slick and I'm good to go.

I'm feeling the benefits of using my Vibrams during my slick runs, short cards, and weight sessions, but I'm wary of showing up to ASPOC with them. I'll continue to train with them until I leave, but I might just go with what I know won't effect my performance in the short term. Have you guys committed to a running shoe yet?


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## Uncle Petey (May 30, 2012)

New Balance,  Converse All Stars, Merrill's,  all the low profile shoes will do. I'd stay away from using VFF's at ASPOC. One guy wore them ( the more rugged bottomed) but he didn't perform all that well.  Could have just been the individual, but I thought I saw a hesitancy on his part to push himself.  You need more protection on your feet, the roads are graveled, so your not running on something soft and ergonomic.


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## Uncle Petey (May 30, 2012)

Watch the Pose Videos, learn the techniques, practice them, then work them in sprints, short then long.  Recover and maintain lower leg mobility, you will see "shin-splints" disappear.


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## Jmotivator (May 30, 2012)

mac21 The comment I was referring to was a bit questionable.

On the other hand, as far as shoes go, I wore the Minimus New Balance, and I definitely wished I wore somethign with a bit more padding. Like Uncle Petey said, most of the running is done on gravel roads, VFF will hurt. I was able to do fine and keep up but my feet were a bit bruised from the rocks.


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## 0331 (May 30, 2012)

running with the merrill chameleon 4 cyclone and thinking about getting a pair of the rocky s2v to train in.  any one have anything to say about the s2v? just sucks if I like them cant take them to A&S an ASPOC.


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## FIJI750 (May 31, 2012)

Ordman - those Injini socks are like anything else, you have to give them and your feet time to get used to each other, but you will love them if you stick with it. Wear them around the house, to work, on a short light run etc. Putting them on for the first time on your 12 miler isn't the best idea, IMO.

If you're not comfy and cozy in the water you need to get there. Like your package says, only authorized Marine Corps boots with the Eagle, Globe and Anchor embossed on the sides are authorized for wear and use at ASPOC and A&S. I wore bates lite's and had Dr Scholls gel inserts the entire time with no issues, I also had danner's but only wore them probably 3 times. You can go to any sporting goods store and see which insoles fits you best, talk to the sales associates there, they actually know what they're talking about, well, most of them anyway.

Train with the gear on the gear list. Pack your rucks with that gear. If you can't get that gear, get as close to it as possible. Try packing your ruck a few diff ways, you'd be amazed at what you discover when you do. A large alice ruck with a frame will cost you around $60 online, I bought mine from GI Joe's Military Surplus. Guys were complaining about the rucks and weight because all they trained with was a 50 pound sandbag and their ruck times were way slower than when they were training.


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## ordman (May 31, 2012)

I tried the Bates lites but like I said, the heel was just going to rip my skin off. Am I right when I say that blisters and hot spots are something that just have to be managed...because there's no way around them? Every boot that I've tried has some minor defect that screws my feet on the humps. I've read everything on this site about humping and I've seen several cases of the magical boot that never gave anyone any problems...but those aren't allowed at A&S. 

Good point on the injijis, probably not the best way to assess a new piece of gear. This week will be a light week for me, I'm doing the pose techniques and focusing on my form in the pool. I recently spoke with a guy that just got selected at A&S, his times in the pool and hump were unGodly, one of the mental challenges for me will definitely be going from above average to somewhere in the lower middle at A&S with no pat on my back, something to think about.


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## FIJI750 (May 31, 2012)

The blisters and hot spots just need to be managed...all the time, not just when you're rucking. The guys that I saw with those issues 1) didn't condition their feet for what we were doing 2) didn’t try aftermarket gear ie, insoles, socks etc 3) when we got done, they’d lay around complaining about their pains instead of stretching and icing it down (preventative maintenance goes a long way) 4) when we got done, they took a shower and ran off on libo 5) when they did get blisters/hotspots they’d panic and try something outrageous that someone else tried and worked for them. Stick to what you know and what works for you. It’s simple, if you want your feet to feel good, take care of them. If something hurts, make a note and research it, you’ll find an answer and solution. Try Dr Scholl’s website, it’s full of great knowledge regarding foot pain. I worked out all my kinks and practiced good habits regarding foot care before getting to ASPOC and A&S, it became a habit so that was the last thing on my mind and never became an issue.


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## ordman (May 31, 2012)

I'm going to start experimenting with taping techniques on my next hump, I bought some Nexcare 3m medical tape that was mentioned on a previous thread. After my last 12 mile hump I took 4 days off then jumped in the pool today; my hip flexors are getting stronger from swimming and hiking and my endurance/speed in the pool keeps getting better. I shied away from timing myself because I wanted to focus on form and ended up swimming 650 meters easy (slick) non-stop. I'm going to focus on shorter/faster distances with the ruck on this week combined with some deadlifts and sprints.

I pulled a lower back muscle earlier this year and keep feeling a very faint residual annoyance in the same spot, I wouldn't even call it a pain but it's there. I've read that some nerve endings could have been slightly damaged from the initial injury which could lead to this effect. Like you said Fiji I'm trying to work out the small kinks before the real deal.


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## is friday (May 31, 2012)

Were one of you at the Las Pulgas pool today at around noon? I met somebody training there for the August class....


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## unguided (May 31, 2012)

There was one Marine that wore steel toes for ASPOC. Don't be that Marine. The Injini socks work wonders. I would wear them underneath a set of wool socks that I picked up from Wal-Mart for pretty cheap. Don't buy any moleskin before you head out to Stone Bay. They had a box full of Moleskin for you there.


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## ordman (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks unguided, are the steel toes just to heavy? I bought 10 pair of Fox River socks in 2010 and they've lasted me through 2 deployments and haven't broken down. I'm a believer in the synthetic materials. I haven't bought any moisture wicking shirts yet but I'm going to, 10 bucks a shirt...ouch.

I'm about to run 6 miles in sauconies, I'll throw my time up here later. I put my times on here so readers can gauge and compete, I've identified a lot of improvement that I need by listening to y'all. Have a good weekend.

1st 3 miles was in 19:30, hit the 6 mile mark at 41:50. I had to stop and walk 3 times. My form is definately better since practicing the pose technique, I used to be a big time heel striker. I wrapped it up with some sprints.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jun 1, 2012)

You ran 6 miles in sub 7:00/mile while stopping to walk 3 times?  
I hate you.


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## ordman (Jun 1, 2012)

Yessir, I never knew I could run until I joined the Marine Corps and that time is considered good but not great (at least where I'm at right now).


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## ordman (Jun 3, 2012)

Here's a low cost investment worth buying: http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=9911. It's a foam roller, it's used to work out those aggravating knots and separate binded muscles.

Edit: I just got the email with this thing in the new 10 week program, it's definately worth it.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jun 3, 2012)

Excellent idea! I was thinking about that earlier today and was surprised no one (myself included) mentioned it yet. $15 at any sport store or at the Exchange and they are worth their weight in gold!! Just learn how to use them properly.

ETA: Your ITB will thank you.


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## ordman (Jun 6, 2012)

Whatsup gents, I'm assuming you guys got the email with the new 10 week program...I wish I would have been working smart with the "movement to preperation" warmup along time ago, would have saved me a few injuries. I can't follow the program to the T but I make sure I get as much as they say to do, if not more on different days. Stay motivated!


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## SkrewzLoose (Jun 6, 2012)

"Prehab" is invaluable.  I may have extended my stay in Coronado had I practiced it more...


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## ordman (Jun 6, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> "Prehab" is invaluable. I may have extended my stay in Coronado had I practiced it more...


I read about your situation in a previous thread, any chance you could go back? I have a memory that might make you laugh: I was on leave back in 2008 and I met a guy that had "The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday" tattooed on his back with a cross underneath. I asked him if he was a SEAL...nope. I asked him if he'd been to BUDS...nope. He then went on to explain to me that he had been kicked out for some drug infraction or something on his first year in lol...pretty high caliber douchery right there.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes, I'll be able to go back after 2 years and with an age waiver.  If I choose to do so.  
Seems kinda like getting a significant other's name tattooed on your body...dooms it to failure.  
There was  big spice bust a few weeks before my class showed up.  A dozen or so guys went bye bye.


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## HoboHeart (Jun 7, 2012)

There's a new prep guide? Well I must be chopped liver; I didn't get the email. Any notable changes? 

It took a nasty case of shin splints before I realized how crude my training was. Since then I've been doing more maintenance. I can vouch for the foam roller; I've been using it on my tibialis for a couple days, and it hurts so good.

After getting cocky with good times on the short card, I took myself over to a Crossfit gym and got a good thrashing. Is there anybody else supplementing the short card for other activities? I'm a lean 170, and though I've been pretty faithful to the prep guide I'm a little concerned I'm not lifting heavily enough.


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## Salt USMC (Jun 7, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> "Prehab" is invaluable. I may have extended my stay in Coronado had I practiced it more...


 
Agreed so hard.  I had two rotator cuff injuries in 2009 and that shit was miserable.  After finding out about the DieselCrew shoulder rehab/prehab workout, I've had healthy shoulders ever since.  No problems whatsoever.



			
				rrd42 said:
			
		

> Is there anybody else supplementing the short card for other activities?


Im using it as part of an early SFAS prep.


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## ordman (Jun 7, 2012)

rrd42 said:


> There's a new prep guide? Well I must be chopped liver; I didn't get the email.


 
I'll PM you about the prep guide.

Gents, the mentor section has been updated.

I'm about to hump 12 miles with injini socks, Bates boots and nexcare 3m tape around toes/heel. Have a rubber rifle too. I'll report the time later. **50lb ruck.

Alright that hurt. 2 hours 40 min was my time. I bought some broken in boots from MCRD that were size 11.R, I normally wear 10.5W but with these I didn't get a single hotspot or blister...hmmm. My front hip flexors were on fire. This was 4 min faster than my last time so I'll take that. 

The tape and Injini socks held up well.


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## Salt USMC (Jun 23, 2012)

Ruck hard!


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## Adrian Noble (Jul 17, 2012)

I'll be attending the aug/sep 12' ASPOC/A&S.
Is anyone training on Lejeune?


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## AWP (Jul 17, 2012)

Adrian Noble said:


> I'll be attending the aug/sep 12' ASPOC/A&S.
> Is anyone training on Lejeune?


 
Adrian,
Provide an Introduction in the correct subforum before posting again.
Thank you.


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## Uncle Petey (Jul 17, 2012)

go too Marsoc Mentor tab and post an intro on the welcome aboard.


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## ordman (Sep 29, 2012)

For those of you keeping tabs on this post, myself and several others on this site were recently selected to go on to ITC. The Marines that attended A&S and got selected were everything I thought they would be and more...mature, respectful, smart and wanted to be there; it was a breath of fresh air.


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## CDG (Sep 29, 2012)

Congratulations to all of those who were selected.


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## Salt USMC (Sep 29, 2012)

Big congrats Ordman!  We knew you could do it!


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 29, 2012)

Well done gents!!


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## HoboHeart (Sep 29, 2012)

I'll agree with Ordman that our brothers at A&S were cream of the crop, but I'll stop short at looks; I'll easily be the most ruggedly handsome at ITC. I've been compared to a slightly uglier Jake Gyllenhaal by several ex-girlfriends.

Now, to learn how to swim...


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## ordman (Sep 29, 2012)

He is pretty handsome ill givem that, maybe he can schmooze a mermaid into rescuing his life.


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## AWP (Sep 29, 2012)

Nicely done, all. I'm glad to see us "grow our own" so to speak.


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## ordman (Sep 30, 2012)

Thanks all for the encouragement.


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## Salt USMC (Oct 1, 2012)

Can we get a mention of all the posters who made it?

EDIT: It seems as though FatGrat, AKKeith 0331, mp52026 and GangsterFish3/7 are the last ones to check in, by my count.


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## Totentanz (Oct 1, 2012)

ordman said:


> For those of you keeping tabs on this post, myself and several others on this site were recently selected to go on to ITC. The Marines that attended A&S and got selected were everything I thought they would be and more...mature, respectful, smart and wanted to be there; it was a breath of fresh air.


 
Well done!


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## larscout (Oct 5, 2012)

Firstly, congratulations to those that made it through to the next step.  I however, still have to submit my package.  My NSW/SO was kicked back for my eyes, they could not get a waiver for my bad vision.  Long story short, got PRK done and waiting for the 90 days to heal.  I’m hoping for January, but as long as I get orders to ASPOC and A&S I’m happy.


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## FIJI750 (Oct 11, 2012)

Congrats boys.


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## FatGrat (Oct 11, 2012)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Can we get a mention of all the posters who made it?
> 
> EDIT: It seems as though FatGrat, AKKeith 0331, larscout, mp52026 and GangsterFish3/7 are the last ones to check in, by my count.


 
I'm very proud to say I was also selected.


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## Salt USMC (Oct 11, 2012)

FatGrat said:


> I'm very proud to say I was also selected.


 
As you should be!  Congratulations!


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## OK RJ (Oct 13, 2012)

Congrats to all who made it. And Semper Fi to the future members/leaders of Marine Special Ops.


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## arch_angel (Jan 12, 2013)

larscout said:


> Firstly, congratulations to those that made it through to the next step. I however, still have to submit my package. My NSW/SO was kicked back for my eyes, they could not get a waiver for my bad vision. Long story short, got PRK done and waiting for the 90 days to heal. I’m hoping for January, but as long as I get orders to ASPOC and A&S I’m happy.


How bad was your vision?  I'm on my way to get my NSW on Monday and I'm legitimately concerned that my eyes may be the only thing keeping me out of this commitment.  

Also, congratulations (albeit kind of late) to those who were selected and by now in ITC.


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## AKkeith (Jan 12, 2013)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Can we get a mention of all the posters who made it?
> 
> EDIT: It seems as though FatGrat, AKKeith 0331, mp52026 and GangsterFish3/7 are the last ones to check in, by my count.


 
I'm headed to the Aug/Sept class now. I fell of the grid there for awhile. I was suppose to head to the April/May class of last year but I got orders to my present unit right before and my old unit told me to go from that unit. Then my new unit stabilized so I couldn't leave and now I'm deployed. So get back late spring and plan on heading out to the Aug class. Its hard to train out here in Okinawa and Ill be getting on ship here real soon which will make it a lot harder. Either way though Ill be up and ready to go just like I was last time.


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## arch_angel (Jan 12, 2013)

AKkeith said:


> I'm headed to the Aug/Sept class now. I fell of the grid there for awhile. I was suppose to head to the April/May class of last year but I got orders to my present unit right before and my old unit told me to go from that unit. Then my new unit stabilized so I couldn't leave and now I'm deployed. So get back late spring and plan on heading out to the Aug class. Its hard to train out here in Okinawa and Ill be getting on ship here real soon which will make it a lot harder. Either way though Ill be up and ready to go just like I was last time.


AK, I'm working my package right now to be in the Sept class.  If everything goes well on Monday with my NSW then it's just a matter of me submitting.  Have fun on your float!


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## larscout (Jan 16, 2013)

arch_angel said:


> How bad was your vision?  I'm on my way to get my NSW on Monday and I'm legitimately concerned that my eyes may be the only thing keeping me out of this commitment.
> 
> Also, congratulations (albeit kind of late) to those who were selected and by now in ITC.



My vision was horrible; bad astigmatism in both eyes and unable to get a waiver.  However the PRK fixed that for me and have a signed NSW/SO.  Just a few admin touches and will finally submit this package; took a couple of years to finally get done.  Still hopong for April class.  Hope everything goes well for you.


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## arch_angel (Jan 16, 2013)

larscout said:


> My vision was horrible; bad astigmatism in both eyes and unable to get a waiver.  However the PRK fixed that for me and have a signed NSW/SO.  Just a few admin touches and will finally submit this package; took a couple of years to finally get done.  Still hopong for April class.  Hope everything goes well for you.



Well fortunately my vision checked out at 20/50 & 20/20 so I'm good with that. Due to my current obligations I cant go til Aug.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## 08cpl (Jan 21, 2013)

Looking to go to Aspoc this April class upon completion of my NSW/SO and feel like I dont have enough time to get where I want, I'm 6'3 at a solid 223 and would honestly like to be down to 205 before then, my training is limited because of field ops and other training evolutions. Could use some advice on the workout regiment to use to help shed these extra pounds without losing a lot of my strength. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Justin


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## arch_angel (Jan 21, 2013)

08cpl said:


> Looking to go to Aspoc this April class upon completion of my NSW/SO and feel like I dont have enough time to get where I want, I'm 6'3 at a solid 223 and would honestly like to be down to 205 before then, my training is limited because of field ops and other training evolutions. Could use some advice on the workout regiment to use to help shed these extra pounds without losing a lot of my strength. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Justin


 
Justin,
I am by no means an expert in the field, but I can provide you with what I do on a weekly basis in prep for A&S.  First, is your diet.  Personally I prefer to stick to as close to Paleo as I can.  (If you would like more information on that just hit me up).  As for exercises, I do a combination of different things.  

Mornings:
*Mon, Wed, Fri mornings*: I run a full PFT before doing group PT.  (Being that I am stationed in MA, the flight line will sometimes see single digit temps so I have to stick to the treadmill).
*Mon-Fri morning*s: Group PT (usually consists of 5v5 basketball, weight lifting circuits, or some sort of crossfit).
Afternoons:
*Tues&Thursday afternoons*: My SNCOIC and myself go to the pool and do speed swims (anywhere from 300-1000m swims, in cammies for time).
*Mon, Wed, Fri afternoons*:  Some sort of speed work (sprints).  I generally alternate each week between boots&utes/pt gear.
*Saturdays*:  LONG ruck/swim/ruck or run/swim/run.  Fortunately for me, the pool I go to is exactly 3 miles from my house so I throw on some old school cammies, a mountain ruck, and take off.  To extend past 6 miles I pass up the pool by 2 miles, then do the same on my route back for a total of 10 miles.
*Sunday*: Rest/Recover
Evenings:
*Mon-Thur evenings*:  My wife and I do crossfit at our gym, we'll usually do the Spartan WOD, or something I cook up at work.  

Hopefully I haven't confused you too bad with that, basically it comes down to being extremely active about 3 times a day.  It seems like a lot but I honestly can say I have yet to feel any real discomforts (aside from the normal soreness).  I'm 5'11" and weigh 187.  When I used to lift a lot I was up to 196 but I can honestly say I feel stronger now than I did at that time, just minus some mass.  If you don't feel ready for A&S, why not just request to hold off until the Aug/Sept class?

Hope this helped,

Josh


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## 08cpl (Jan 21, 2013)

arch_angel said:


> Justin,
> I am by no means an expert in the field, but I can provide you with what I do on a weekly basis in prep for A&S. First, is your diet. Personally I prefer to stick to as close to Paleo as I can. (If you would like more information on that just hit me up). As for exercises, I do a combination of different things.
> 
> Mornings:
> ...


 
Josh,
I really appreciate it man that actually does help alot. I just needed a basis workout like yours that I can start and build off of, throw in some things of my own. Its just kind of hard to go from being a go big or go home weight lifter your whole life to becoming a running, dieting, crossfit junkie... but it sounds like you really have your stuff on point and I appreciate you taking the time to write me back.
Justin


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## arch_angel (Jan 21, 2013)

Like you said, you can incorporate just about any other workouts into it.  When I get closer to time for A&S I'll be doing some longer rucks, for now I'm just trying to get the speed part down.  

As for strength, like I said I used to be a lot bigger but after starting this regimen in November I quickly figured out that there was a lot more fat than I thought.  

No problem, I enjoy helping people out when I can.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jan 22, 2013)

08cpl said:


> Looking to go to Aspoc this April class upon completion of my NSW/SO and feel like I dont have enough time to get where I want, I'm 6'3 at a solid 223 and would honestly like to be down to 205 before then, my training is limited because of field ops and other training evolutions. Could use some advice on the workout regiment to use to help shed these extra pounds without losing a lot of my strength. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Justin


 
I'm 6'3" and I lost 30 pounds (215->185) in 10 months before I shipped to boot camp.  The only thing I changed was what I ate.


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## is friday (Jan 22, 2013)

Congrats to you selected Marines! Train hard for ITC, I hear it's a gut check! (Especially the water.)


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## Hillclimb (Jan 23, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> I'm 6'3" and I lost 30 pounds (215->185) in 10 months before I shipped to boot camp. The only thing I changed was what I ate.


 
Bingo. Take the mystery out of it all. Some people over 'diet' or over train. Just dial in your nutrition and the rest will follow.


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## arch_angel (Feb 1, 2013)

How's everything going for everyone?

Anyone have any exciting plans in terms of training for this year before they go to A&S?  So far I plan on attending MCWSS, Martial Arts Instructor Course, I'm about to finish up Cpl's Course (finally lol).


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## Cody (Feb 2, 2013)

They won't send me to MCWSS or AIC because of A&S    Oh well though....My workouts are different WODs from  SealFIT, Palehorse, MA, Shadow Spears Program and Swimming. I try to take two days off a week now because I was doing 6 days of training for 6 weeks and guess I was doing more than I should.


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## arch_angel (Feb 2, 2013)

That is very unfortunate your command won't allow you any extra training opportunities, but understandable.

So far I haven't had any issues with over working myself. Although, lately I haven't been in my normal routine, gotta wait til I get out of Corporal's Course.


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## Salt USMC (Feb 2, 2013)

I sure hope you're smoking all the other Marines there


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## arch_angel (Feb 2, 2013)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I sure hope you're smoking all the other Marines there


 
Absolutely.  A lot of the other Marines don't understand how I can swim, come pt in the morning, go home and pt, then repeat the next day and weekends lol.  It's all in the breakfast my wife cooks I guess.


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## Cody (Feb 2, 2013)

Corporals is useful for understanding all the technical pieces of being an NCO (sword manual, drill, giving classes) ....for me the leadership half  seemed more like common sense broken down and taught with the all powerful Power Point  twas painful


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## arch_angel (Feb 2, 2013)

That's what I was thinking myself. The course overall is pretty easy, we finish this Friday.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Sandman3 (Feb 3, 2013)

Arch_angel are you attending this next ITC class?


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## arch_angel (Feb 3, 2013)

Negative, I still have to go through ASPOC/A&S.  If all goes well this Aug/Sept I'll hopefully be attending the January ITC, but that's def. not my main focus at this time.

Have you already been through selection?


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## Sandman3 (Feb 3, 2013)

Ah okay, goodluck brother.  I was selected this past August class.  Getting ready to execute orders for the upcoming ITC class.


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## arch_angel (Feb 3, 2013)

You got selected last August and they're just now sending you down for ITC?  Did you have a deployment in between?


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## 8654Maine (Feb 3, 2013)

Joe24, good luck at ITC.


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## Sandman3 (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks 8654Marine, and no arch_angel, I returned at the end of march last year from Afghan.  My 5 year contract ended up helping me out with suffice time to do A&S and then I just reenlisted in December .


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## arch_angel (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh alright.  I've got a few buddies down there with 2/4.  Did you happen to know a LCpl Tarwoe?  He got hit last year or the year before.  He had the thickest African accent you could imagine and he was about 5' tall.


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## Sandman3 (Feb 4, 2013)

No I can't say I've heard that name, I'm in STA and my team worked for Fox company, so I'm really only familiar with them.  I grew up in Fox before I went to snipers back in 2010.


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## Outlaw (Feb 4, 2013)

2/4 Fox? I was with 3rd plt. for the 11th MEU, and the first Afghan deployment.


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## Sandman3 (Feb 4, 2013)

Edit


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## 08cpl (Feb 6, 2013)

To guys that have already attened Aspoc/A&S, what swim stroke would you recommend works the best under those circumstances, buddy of mine is in aspoc now and said the breast stroke seems to be the money maker but I feel my side stroke is much faster..


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## 08cpl (Feb 6, 2013)

Also when I did my pre-screening for MCWSS they told me i'd use nothing but freestyle there, which I havent done in a super long type bc you dont use them during a&s ive been told


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## Sandman3 (Feb 6, 2013)

It's breast or side just as the MARSOC website describes.  And breast stroke by far more efficient and faster.  Guys doing side stroke seemed winded by 150m into it.  And also they seemed to lose their sense of direction, drifting left or right into others guys, therefore losing time, and causing someone else time.  If you don't have that problem I'd say go for it, but statistically speaking, the top swimmers were all breast stroking.


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## arch_angel (Feb 6, 2013)

Well found out today I can't go to MCWSS because I won't have enough time left on contract to attend without an extension.  So I'll probably try for MCWSS after A&S so I don't have to worry about the whole contract issue.


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## ordman (Feb 7, 2013)

08cpl said:


> To guys that have already attened Aspoc/A&S, what swim stroke would you recommend works the best under those circumstances, buddy of mine is in aspoc now and said the breast stroke seems to be the money maker but I feel my side stroke is much faster..


 
Before I went, my sidestroke was faster than my breast stroke, I thought I was the exception to the rule.  As soon as the instructors critiqued and corrected my form and I got some tips from dudes with experience on the breast stroke, I dropped a minute off my time. I would go back to the drawing board with the breast stroke.


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## arch_angel (Feb 7, 2013)

Ordman, what were some major differences in your improved stroke vs your not so improved breast stroke?


On a side note, I was honor grad for my Cpl's Course...both academically as well as voted by my peers..pretty excited about that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## 8654Maine (Feb 7, 2013)

Arch, good job and keep up the success streak.


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## ordman (Feb 7, 2013)

arch_angel said:


> Ordman, what were some major differences in your improved stroke vs your not so improved breast stroke?
> 
> 
> On a side note, I was honor grad for my Cpl's Course...both academically as well as voted by my peers..pretty excited about that.
> ...


 
Thats awesome man, peers don't vote for an A-hole.

I'll try and explain the stroke the best I can: bad stroke-I would pull my hands all the way down almost to my hips then bring them back up, my legs would be seperated and clumsy at the end of my frog kick.

After critique: hands will mimic a "diamand" shape around my head, palms down on the initial thrust, then "clapped" together to bring them back up for the reset. legs were closed together with toes pointed at the end of the frog kick. Body was almost level with the water, just enough to sneak a breathe from the side.


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## arch_angel (Feb 7, 2013)

Thank you gentlemen.

Ordman, I definitely had the same issue that you had initially.  I kept trying to make my pulls as long and wide as possible (to me that made the most sense).  After some direction from a fellow Marine and a bunch of videos on Youtube, I figured out what I need to be doing and where my body should be while swimming.

Were you able to kick off the wall during your timed 300?


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## Hillclimb (Feb 8, 2013)

ordman said:


> I'll try and explain the stroke the best I can: bad stroke-I would pull my hands all the way down almost to my hips then bring them back up, my legs would be seperated and clumsy at the end of my frog kick.
> 
> After critique: hands will mimic a "diamand" shape around my head, palms down on the initial thrust, then "clapped" together to bring them back up for the reset. legs were closed together with toes pointed at the end of the frog kick. Body was almost level with the water, just enough to sneak a breathe from the side.


 
Made perfect sense. Thanks Ordman. I always thought the sidestroke was more conservative of energy, but I've been practicing it in a speedo, so there's less drag. I'll begin grinding on the breast stroke.

Thanks gents.


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## ordman (Feb 10, 2013)

Hillclimb said:


> Made perfect sense. Thanks Ordman. I always thought the sidestroke was more conservative of energy, but I've been practicing it in a speedo, so there's less drag. I'll begin grinding on the breast stroke.
> 
> Thanks gents.


 The sheer audacity of training in a speedo should carry you through brother :) I would be reluctant to present my humble package in a speedo. you are a brave man Hillclimb.


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## Hillclimb (Feb 11, 2013)

'Function over fashion,' I always say.

I'm sure the sight of me in it is nothing short of terrifying for the locals.


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## Sandman3 (Feb 11, 2013)

Congrats on honor grad arch_angel!  Really through the different courses I've been to, it's always a guy with good character and motivation.  Hillclimb, you rock that speedo til death lol.  Where are you at with cammies in a 300m?


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## 8654Maine (Feb 11, 2013)

Hillclimb said:


> 'Function over fashion,' I always say.
> 
> I'm sure the sight of me in it is nothing short of terrifying for the locals.



Jackwagons.


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## arch_angel (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone.  Now time to get back on the grind.  Found out today I may be going to MCWSS after-all so I'm pretty excited about that.  Def. been on cloud nine these past couple weeks.


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## Hillclimb (Mar 4, 2013)

joe24 said:


> Congrats on honor grad arch_angel! Really through the different courses I've been to, it's always a guy with good character and motivation. Hillclimb, you rock that speedo til death lol. Where are you at with cammies in a 300m?


 
I will have to let you know once I get signed up at the YMCA's pool, if they will allow swimming in cammies. The one I was using on base is closed for the winter/maintainence, and I don't think I timed myself accurately. I will say it was a game changer after being used to swimming slick for awhile.

Really going to be hammering the pool and going a little lighter in the gym this month, as I will be attending April-May ASPOC/A&S. Is anyone else slotted to go?


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## 08cpl (Mar 11, 2013)

Congrats arch_angel! My aspoc date is quickly aproaching and I am going to take a little time off from the lifting portion and spend this last month in the pool and carry the ruck everywhere, here lately ive been doing a lot of cross-fit, HITT type workout. Although I feel like I may need some critique on my swimming, Ive always been able to swim pretty good but ive never been on a swim team or anything like that..I was just thrown into a pool at an early age and told to not drown. Everyone keeps saying breast stroke but I honestly feel my side stroke is faster for me and I dont get nearly as tired..my side stroke 300m in cammies is 9mins on the dot as of today and my breast around 11..I was tired after the breast, not so much after the side and maybe that is just my technique flaws. I swim at the area 2 pool on camp lejeune and am pretty much available anytime of the day if anyone else goes there and wouldn't mind giving me a few pointers, it would be greatly appreciated...


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## 08cpl (Mar 11, 2013)

Hillclimb I will also be attending April-May ASPOC/A&S


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## Uncle Petey (Mar 11, 2013)

Side-stroke is the way to go. Last I heard there was some silliness regarding the version of the Sidestroke you could use. Breast-stroke is not the fastest for most people. Practice both though.


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## Jim Flagan (Mar 15, 2013)

That's weird that you say the Petey, i trust your word on it, but I have heard from the guys that I know that have gone, and the MCIWS/WSA course the breast is the preferred stroke when speed comes before energy, when survival strokes are needed of course


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## Uncle Petey (Mar 15, 2013)

Breast-stroke and speed? I've never heard that before. If your a talented competitive Breast-stroker I'd say yes. The Combat Side Stroke of the Crawl stoke are the fastest.  The breast-stroke (IMHO) apply to water rescues, and closer tactical swimming. It is an awesome stroke but not the fastest for most people. 

As of current the side stroke if used at ASPOC is the life-saving side stoke.  I do not like this at all, but I am not in charge.  To all of you reading this.  Be aware of that fact.  I would prefer that you guys really learn to do the CSS. It teaches you how to move in a streamlined fashion through the water and it works very well with fins.  If you can master the CSS adjusting to the Life-saving side stroke should be no problem.  Also once your in ITC strokes are a bit different.  Our swimming is a bit different than that swimming at BUD/s.  But there is a reason the SEAL/s came up with the thing, it works and its useful.  If you not pushing a ruck in front of you it is far superior to breast-stroking for thousands of meters in fins. 

I've told many of you that the best overall fitness stroke is the Crawl stroke. No world record in any other stroke comes close to it (Butterfly?, not very tactical though.)  Crawl helps you understand streamlined body position as well as the kick. In crawl stroke your kick is not much, but with fins on wearing a MK-25 Dive Rig you'll soon understand the flutter-kick exercise you've done for years. 

All strokes are useful in some form or fashion. But what really matters is comfort and relaxation in the water.  If your confident and you can be taught anything. None of this is impossible.  Being really good in that water just takes practice.


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## 08cpl (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for the info Petey, Ive spent a lot more time in the water these past few weeks working speed, technique and distance and come to find out Ive become quite fond of the breast stroke over the side stroke. I work both as you mentioned before but im really finding the side stroke to be more efficient in the longer swims.


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## Uncle Petey (Apr 2, 2013)

Great to hear. Use the stroke you have the best time with.


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## Tiberius (May 28, 2013)

I am also currently stationed at MCAS Miramar. Just waiting on UMO and Waiver for time in grade then I will be on my way to ASPOC in August. I am looking for more people to train with in the area. One of my fellow Marines just got selected and is back so he will also be training with me. Just hit me up on here. I am Power Plants BTW.


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## Tiberius (May 28, 2013)

Tiberius said:


> I am also currently stationed at MCAS Miramar. Just waiting on UMO and Waiver for time in grade then I will be on my way to ASPOC in August. I am looking for more people to train with in the area. One of my fellow Marines just got selected and is back so he will also be training with me. Just hit me up on here. I am Power Plants BTW.


You can find me at the pool in cammies almost everyday. Especially on Tuesdays and Thursdays since those are the days it is set up for 50m length.


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## Teufel (Jun 4, 2013)

Uncle Petey said:


> Everything Petey said.


 
Concur with Uncle Petey.  Learn all the strokes to include the combat swimmer stroke even if you can't use it at BRC/ITC (I don't know if you can or not).

You will probably not be timed at freestyle (crawlstroke) but you will probably have to do it at BRC/ITC/MCD.  We also did some butterfly in addition to Helen Kellers (swim holding your right foot with your left arm and vice versa), u boats (an elementary backstroke in the opposite direction with your feet out of the water) and a zillion cross overs of every variety.  There was a stroke that combined crawlstroke and the racing backstroke.  Whirlybird or something.  

 I am actually more comfortable with the breast stroke but I'm an anomaly.  I can do a 500 meter breast stroke in ten minuts without really raising my heart rate much.  You guys are all young PT studs and are training to beat mako sharks in open water swims but when you start joining the old and the bold you start to place a higher priority on efficiency and longevity.  An efficient breast stroke is a real energy saver and has a place in your training.  

I also agree that an efficient combat swimmer stroke is MUCH faster than the breast stroke.  It takes a lot of skill and energy to do a fast breast stroke.  It's really not worth the effort to do fast.  No one has ever expected me to break 10 minutes on my 500m.  So I use the breast stroke.  If I need to really bust ass, I'll do the CSS.  Different strokes for different folks right?  Most of the stuff you do in the fleet is with fins and a ruck anyway.  No one is going to care how fast you can knock out a 500m slick.  All people care about is that you can bust out an accurate 2000m dive or fin in less than an hour.  

Jim, MCWIS does not authorize the combat swimmer stroke.  You are allowed to do the regular side stroke but that's not too fast. MCWIS will fail you for improper form as much as speed.  A lot of guys at MCWIS have some sort of competitive swimming background and while the breast stroke is a racing stroke, the side stroke is not.  It's natural that they would prefer it.


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## Lateralmove (Feb 27, 2014)

is friday said:


> Anybody that is on Pendleton feel free to utilize me as a resource. I've been to A&S and made it through only to be a non-select. Currently in the Recon pipeline, albeit injured. I'm a Personal Trainer, too, so I can definitely help you tighten up your routine to be more economical.


How did you not get selected  
What was there reason ?


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## HTFU8591 (Mar 6, 2014)

Anyone going to the this upcoming April Aspoc class thats stationed in okinawa, let me know it would be great to have a training partner...


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## x SF med (Mar 6, 2014)

HTFU8591 said:


> Anyone going to the this upcoming April Aspoc class thats stationed in okinawa, let me know it would be great to have a training partner...



Post your intro in the proper thread before making any other posts.


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## Winendine (Mar 6, 2014)

HTFU8591 said:


> Anyone going to the this upcoming April Aspoc class thats stationed in okinawa, let me know it would be great to have a training partner...


We should start a 2-14 thread to get everyone rogering up. I'm not in oki anymore but I'll see you there.


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## Winendine (Mar 6, 2014)

Oops ill do the same SF MED


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## x SF med (Mar 6, 2014)

Winendine said:


> We should start a 2-14 thread to get everyone rogering up. I'm not in oki anymore but I'll see you there.



winendine...  I suspect you are either stupid or arrogant making your first post here after I just asked another Marine to make sure he posted an intro.
You need to follow the same instructions, post an intro before you make any other posts.

eta, typed as you were posting your above "oops"


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## Winendine (Mar 6, 2014)

x SF med said:


> winendine...  I suspect you are either stupid or arrogant making your first post here after I just asked another Marine to make sure he posted an intro.
> You need to follow the same instructions, post an intro before you make any other posts.
> 
> eta, typed as you were posting your above "oops"


The discrepancy has been corrected and yes I can be a bit of a          "mouth breather" sometimes . I apologize.


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## Lateralmove (Mar 7, 2014)

I will be there. What camp are at ?


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## Lateralmove (Mar 7, 2014)

Lateralmove said:


> I will be there. What camp are at ?


*what camp are you at* ?


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