# Ballistic Vests -- EMT's



## Grunt (Aug 18, 2017)

Wasn't sure where to put this so I am hoping this is fine. I have always been curious about this subject but never asked anyone outside my immediate AO. I was just watching _Boston EMS_ on TV and heard one of the EMT's state that they are all issued ballistic vests and that very few of them ever wear them.

For all you EMT's here, are you issued ballistic vests and if so, do you wear them?


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## Red Flag 1 (Aug 18, 2017)

Agoge said:


> Wasn't sure where to put this so I am hoping this is fine. I have always been curious about this subject but never asked anyone outside my immediate AO. I was just watching _Boston EMS_ on TV and heard one of the EMT's state that they are all issued ballistic vests and that very few of them ever wear them.


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## Muppet (Aug 19, 2017)

Just north of Philly, mandated by job. This was a pediatric nurse bday, so I acted like a retard. Doing CPR / code stuff is fun in this also.

M.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 19, 2017)

:-"


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## Devildoc (Aug 19, 2017)

I work part-time for Durham EMS in the early 90s, we were issued vests. At the time we were the only one in the state. There are a couple housing projects that gave us 80% of penetrating trauma, and the people in those projects would shoot anything with a light bar and siren. At the time I think there were only about five or six systems in the US that issued vests. Now many many places do.


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## Gunz (Aug 19, 2017)

It's not a stupid idea.

Fire trucks used to have open cabs.



There's a reason they ditched the open-cab design. Because in the 60's, during riots,  people were setting fires so they could shoot firefighters. People are animals.


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## Gunz (Aug 19, 2017)

Muppet said:


> Just north of Philly, mandated by job. This was a pediatric nurse bday, so I acted like a retard. Doing CPR / code stuff is fun in this also.
> 
> M.




You keep that vest on, My Brother.


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## Muppet (Aug 19, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> You keep that vest on, My Brother.



Will do bro. Maria and pop say the same....

M.


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## trin (Aug 19, 2017)

It's getting more common.  A nearby metropolitan area's EMS service recently began issuing them to their personnel.  My agency is more suburban/semi-rural.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 20, 2017)

Are they ballistic being ceramic plates or SRBA types usually? I'd imagine, going off no data at all, that knives would be a bigger risk than firearms, in general?


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## CDG (Aug 20, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> There's a reason they ditched the open-cab design. Because in the 60's, during riots,  people were setting fires so they could shoot firefighters. People are animals.



It even happened to Edward Norton's dad!!


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## Salt USMC (Aug 20, 2017)

Muppet said:


> Just north of Philly, mandated by job. This was a pediatric nurse bday, so I acted like a retard. Doing CPR / code stuff is fun in this also.
> 
> M.


Is the party hat standard issue?


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## Muppet (Aug 20, 2017)

SpitfireV said:


> Are they ballistic being ceramic plates or SRBA types usually? I'd imagine, going off no data at all, that knives would be a bigger risk than firearms, in general?



Level 2A bro.

M.


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## Grunt (Aug 20, 2017)

Other than firearms protection, I value my vest's ability to protect me from gut punches and injuries to my mid-section more than I do against edged weapons.


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## Muppet (Aug 21, 2017)

Agoge said:


> Other than firearms protection, I value my vest's ability to protect me from gut punches and injuries to my mid-section more than I do against edged weapons.



Agreed.....

M.


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 22, 2017)

Fire/EMS around here does not wear vests. They've kicked around the idea of having a couple sets of armor/helmets on each rig but realized real quick that there is no one size fits all solution.


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## policemedic (Aug 22, 2017)

Many, but not all, of our paramedic units have helmets, vests with plates, and a TEMS style aid bag.  The armor is issued to the truck not to the medic, so it's not the best solution. The idea is for them to be able to function as an escorted rescue team in an active shooter or similar event. They don't wear soft armor (hell, some don't even wear long pants in the summer...).


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## Muppet (Aug 22, 2017)

We have TEMs bags, similar to an M9 aid bag style that can outfit an initial MCI. Each truck at the station has one, each truck in the county has one, supplied by the county. So, if I am sent to the mall for an active killer, we would be warm zone when the first LEO team enters to kill, entering with the second round of LEO's to establish a CCP, using fire dept. folks to transfer pt's. out.

M.


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## snapt (Aug 26, 2017)

We're in a tiny rural resort town, We have a few vests and helmets in the tool room. No need but nice to know they're around if something crazy went down.


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## policemedic (Aug 27, 2017)

snapt said:


> We're in a tiny rural resort town, We have a few vests and helmets in the tool room. No need but nice to know they're around if something crazy went down.



Respectfully, that's the wrong answer. 

If 'something crazy' goes down while you're away from the station, you're screwed. The fact is you won't know when it's going to happen. 

I always tell people that if you know when and where you're going to be in a gunfight, you shouldn't be there. We carry guns precisely because we _don't_ know when we will need them. 

Here's the latest from my town. I handed off an opiate OD I narcan'd for transport to this paramedic just hours before this happened.  Great dude, good medic.   Trust me, they weren't expecting it. 

Ambulance struck by bullet carrying injured patient


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## Muppet (Aug 27, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Respectfully, that's the wrong answer.
> 
> If 'something crazy' goes down while you're away from the station, you're screwed. The fact is you won't know when it's going to happen.
> 
> ...



Another law abiding citizen that "ain't did no wrong". 52/Market sucks. Who was the medic D?

M.


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## Red Flag 1 (Aug 27, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Respectfully, that's the wrong answer.
> 
> If 'something crazy' goes down while you're away from the station, you're screwed. The fact is you won't know when it's going to happen.
> 
> ...


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## policemedic (Aug 27, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> This is getting beyond insane.



Oh, this is relatively minor. We've had paramedics threatened at gunpoint and told, "Save my boy or you die too."  And of course, let's not forget the spate of robberies where bad guys called 911 for paramedics and then robbed them at gunpoint for their narcs.


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## snapt (Aug 28, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Respectfully, that's the wrong answer.
> 
> If 'something crazy' goes down while you're away from the station, you're screwed. The fact is you won't know when it's going to happen.
> 
> ...



For a different system I would agree. For the community I live in where there have been 2 violent crimes in the decade I've lived here it is what it is. Space is a premium on our boxes since we're so rural, we carry a good bit more since our transport times are so long so its a risk we're willing to take. We respond out of station so if we have an inkling they may be needed they're available. LE beats us to most calls. My point was more that even in Mayberry we have them available to us if we so choose. Cheers.


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## snapt (Aug 28, 2017)

Also, I'm in medic school at the moment, I plan on doing my externship someplace urban so I'll be interested to see how those systems handle it for sure.


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## Frank S. (Aug 28, 2017)

Reduce exposure, reduce risk.


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## amlove21 (Aug 28, 2017)

Frank S. said:


> Reduce exposure, reduce risk.


And denial kills you twice.


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## Devildoc (Aug 28, 2017)

policemedic said:


> We've had paramedics threatened at gunpoint and told, "Save my boy or you die too."



Happened to me, 1992. 

Also had a patient who had been shot, we were working him, bad guy came back and shot him again.  This time he finished the job.  He just looked at us and walked away.

Not to mention the time I was at a code and I couldn't intubate and told my partner I was going "to bag the patient."  The family _assumed_ I meant "body bag" and started beating the shit out of me, told me I _was _going to save the man.


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## policemedic (Aug 28, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> Happened to me, 1992.
> 
> Also had a patient who had been shot, we were working him, bad guy came back and shot him again.  This time he finished the job.  He just looked at us and walked away.
> 
> Not to mention the time I was at a code and I couldn't intubate and told my partner I was going "to bag the patient."  The family _assumed_ I meant "body bag" and started beating the shit out of me, told me I _was _going to save the man.



This is why I'm happy I carry a gun while caring for patients.


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## Grunt (Aug 28, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> Happened to me, 1992.
> 
> Also had a patient who had been shot, we were working him, bad guy came back and shot him again.  This time he finished the job.  He just looked at us and walked away.
> 
> Not to mention the time I was at a code and I couldn't intubate and told my partner I was going "to bag the patient."  The family _assumed_ I meant "body bag" and started beating the shit out of me, told me I _was _going to save the man.



People who have never had to deal with others during severely traumatic times never truly understand how the jump from "friend to foe" happens in seconds...and very often.


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