# Introduction to MDMP



## Etype (Dec 2, 2011)

If you google MILITARY DECISION MAKING PROCESS, you'll come up with plenty of results to compound on this.

What I'd like to introduce to you is step 3, or course of action(COA) development.  This is what batallion staffs and above, and ODAs use when they receive a mission.  Even though in today's GWOT the COA is already mapped out for you, it's good to go through the motions to develop an understanding.  Here, we're going to be applying it to career paths.

So, one of the most important things about COAs is that they must be obviously distinguishable from one another.  

ex. 1 (how not to do it)  COA 1- I'm going to join the Army as an 18X and be an SF Engineer.
                                        COA 2- I'm going to join the Army as an 18X and be an SF Medic.
Bad, they are both hinging on a single point of failure.
ex. 2 COA 1- I'm going to join the Army as an 18X and be an SF Engineer.
         COA 2- I'm going to join the Army as an 18X and be the best Airborne Infantryman I can be.
Good, we're still assuming the risk of making it through jump school- but that's pretty easy, especially after basic.  Being a great infantryman can still be a blast and there's plenty of stuff for you to do there.  Some people love being an NCO in charge of soldiers, I did.  Some people get a kick out of being a jumpmaster, some guys just love the 82nd (guilty again).
So, for a little historic comparison- 
Invasion of Afghanistan vs. Both Invasions of Iraq.  The SOF/Surgical option was on the table for both, and was definitely also used in Iraq, but to a lesser extent.  During the COA comparison and approval phases, I'm sure the SOF specific option was shot down for Iraq because of the increased threat posed by Saddam's army.  Afghanistan, on the other hand, was an open book to the CIA, and we knew what to expect and where to expect it- which is easily exploited by SOF elements, you can kill anything if you show up to the hunt with the right gun.
So kids (which 1/2 of you may be older than me), at least 2 COAs for career progression, distinctly different.


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## CDG (Dec 3, 2011)

COA 1:  I'm going to enlist in the MD ARNG under an SF contract and become an 18B.

COA 2: I will go AD Army as an 11B and work at being the best damn 11B I can be until I get a shot at going to Selection. 

COA 3: I will not be able to enlist because I am prior service, have a DUI on my record, and there is a drawdown coming.  I will finish my Associate's in Homeland Security and see what type of LE job I can land, preferably VA State Police.  As soon as I have the opportunity, I will re-enlist.  I would also, time permitting, start on a Bachelor's degree along the same lines as my Associate's.


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## Teufel (Dec 10, 2011)

If anyone wants to talk MDMP I have done entirely too much of it at the battalion and Corps level.


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## AWP (Dec 10, 2011)

Alright Wannabe's, time to start typing your responses (stomp, stomp).


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 10, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Alright Wannabe's, time to start typing your responses (stomp, stomp).


 
Sorry, Free.  Too busy making my Christmas list comprised of Oakley's Ballistic M-Frames, gigantic G-Shock watches (I own a G-shock and love it), large back packs laden with Molle, SOF patches to apply to the afore mentioned back pack, subscription to Delta Force and DEVGRU monthly and a gift card to the local tattoo shop so I can start my Trident tattoo before I get to boot camp.


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## Etype (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm an Ironman Triathlon kinda guy myself (the watch and never the race).


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## CDG (Dec 11, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Alright Wannabe's, time to start typing your responses (stomp, stomp).


 
Alright Admins, time to give some feedback to the guy who already posted.


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## Etype (Dec 11, 2011)

CDG said:


> COA 2: I will go AD Army as an 11B and work at being the best damn 11B I can be until I get a shot at going to Selection.


 
Have you considered 11B Opt. 40?  Then you have 2 more possible tiers (Ranger Bn or 82nd) that you're setting yourself up for.  I didn't believe it until I came to SF and actually got to work with conventional forces outside of the 82nd- having jump school as an additional mini-selection process really does put you with a higher caliber of dudes.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 11, 2011)

Etype said:


> I'm an Ironman Triathlon kinda guy myself (the watch and never the race).


 
I have one of those as well. $30 and just as indestructible as my G-shock. The G-shock is solar & atomic which means maintenance free other than switching time zones.

Sorry, back on track...


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## Tropicana98 (Dec 11, 2011)

COA 1: I'm enlisted with an 11x Opt. 40, will pass RASP and become an infantryman in the 75th Ranger Regiment.

COA 2: I'm enlisted with an 11x Opt. 40 and I'm going to be the best airborne infantryman as I can be.

COA 3: If something happens to me during airborne, I'm going to be the best infantryman I can be.

In the case of COA's 2 and 3 I would work my ass off in whatever unit I'm assigned then 4187(?) to RASP as soon as I could.


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## CDG (Dec 11, 2011)

Etype said:


> Have you considered 11B Opt. 40? Then you have 2 more possible tiers (Ranger Bn or 82nd) that you're setting yourself up for. I didn't believe it until I came to SF and actually got to work with conventional forces outside of the 82nd- having jump school as an additional mini-selection process really does put you with a higher caliber of dudes.


 
I was under the impression that there were no Opt. 40's available for Prior Service.  If that is wrong, then that would definitely be something I would look into.


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## DasBoot (Dec 11, 2011)

COA 1: I enlist with an SO contract, get through Basic, Prep, Orientation. Go to BUD/S and SQT, make it through and head to a SEAL team.
COA 2: I enlist with a Corpsman contract, go FMF route and try out for the SARC pipeline. If that doesn't pan out I go to be the best Doc I can be.
COA 3: I go with the needs of the Navy and be the best Sailor I can be.


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## goon175 (Dec 11, 2011)

You cannot get 11x as a prior service soldier, much less an opt. 40 right now. You can get 18x if you are an E-4 or below. I have known many people to not make SFAS and then put in for RASP as soon as they can, and guys who didn't make RASP put in for SFAS as soon as possible. So there are definately options, once you are back in.


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## CDG (Dec 11, 2011)

goon175 said:


> You cannot get 11x as a prior service soldier, much less an opt. 40 right now. You can get 18x if you are an E-4 or below. I have known many people to not make SFAS and then put in for RASP as soon as they can, and guys who didn't make RASP put in for SFAS as soon as possible. So there are definately options, once you are back in.


 
If the Guard route falls through it would be because the waiver got shot down. In that event, I assumed the same would also happen if I tried to enlist as an 18x. Also, I believe I would be coming back as an E-5. I'm not sure what the Army's policy is on voluntary reductions in paygrade. So I think I would need to go the 11B route and focus on being a good infantryman until I could get a package in for SFAS. The advice and info is greatly appreciated.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 11, 2011)

DasBoot said:


> COA 1: I enlist with an SO contract, get through Basic, Prep, Orientation. Go to BUD/S and SQT, make it through and head to a SEAL team.
> COA 2: I enlist with a Corpsman contract, go FMF route and try out for the SARC pipeline. If that doesn't pan out I go to be the best Doc I can be.
> COA 3: I go with the needs of the Navy and be the best Sailor I can be.


 
Seems like COA 1.5 could be, enlist as HM, go FMF or however the cookie crumbles, maintain my physical conditioning, go to BUD/S after X years doing cool, medic shit. Having X years in the big Navy before going to BUD/S will be advantageous.
Just a thought.


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## DasBoot (Dec 11, 2011)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Seems like COA 1.5 could be, enlist as HM, go FMF or however the cookie crumbles, maintain my physical conditioning, go to BUD/S after X years doing cool, medic shit. Having X years in the big Navy before going to BUD/S will be advantageous.
> Just a thought.


 
I get what you are saying- my thought process is the fact I see all the issues people on here have as prior service or current AD when it comes to getting into BUD/S, SFAS, etc. So I figure stick with the direct routes.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 12, 2011)

DasBoot said:


> I get what you are saying- my thought process is the fact I see all the issues people on here have as prior service or current AD when it comes to getting into BUD/S, SFAS, etc. So I figure stick with the direct routes.


 
I should have pointed something out in my previous post.  You'll enlist with something other than an SO contract and then earn it while in DEP.  I don't know if that part has been explained to you or not.  I know recruiters are not always the best source of information when it comes to NSO/NSW.  If you have any questions on how that part works, feel free to shoot me a PM.


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## DasBoot (Dec 12, 2011)

SkrewzLoose said:


> I should have pointed something out in my previous post.  You'll enlist with something other than an SO contract and then earn it while in DEP.  I don't know if that part has been explained to you or not.  I know recruiters are not always the best source of information when it comes to NSO/NSW.  If you have any questions on how that part works, feel free to shoot me a PM.


Ok I wasn't 100% clear on that- i wasn't sure if you initially signed up with the SO or something else. Thank you for the clarification


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 12, 2011)

Glad I could help.  I wasn't 100% clear on it either when I was at MEPS, signing my original Aircrew contract.  I walked out of MEPS very unsure about what I had done and even less sure about how the process worked.  Again, PM box is always open.


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## dknob (Dec 13, 2011)

Tropicana98 said:


> COA 1: I'm enlisted with an 11x Opt. 40, will pass RASP and become an infantryman in the 75th Ranger Regiment.
> 
> COA 2: I'm enlisted with an 11x Opt. 40 and I'm going to be the best airborne infantryman as I can be.
> 
> ...


 
Don't mess up in RASP the first time - RASP is *not* like SFAS as it is tough as shit to 4187 from your infantry unit for a RASP slot. The 75th prefers people to be "Raised" in the 75th and not come from the outside. Just some motivation for your first time around.


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## dknob (Dec 13, 2011)

Are 18Xers still going to Airborne before SFAS??

I know Regiment now sends people to Airborne only after they finish RASP.

To curb those hooahs who are just taking these awesome contracts in order to get jump wings.


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## goon175 (Dec 13, 2011)

They actually went back to sending them to Airborne first, before RASP. From what the Liason told me, that was just an experimental thing, not permanent.


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## Tropicana98 (Dec 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> Don't mess up in RASP the first time - RASP is *not* like SFAS as it is tough as shit to 4187 from your infantry unit for a RASP slot. The 75th prefers people to be "Raised" in the 75th and not come from the outside. Just some motivation for your first time around.


 
Roger, that's definitely the plan I read enough from you all and some others to know to just get it done for that among many other reasons. There's an old thread on here actually, IIRC its RAGE2/75's, that details his troubles trying to just get to RASP. I've got my slot so its up to me not to fuck it up.






goon175 said:


> They actually went back to sending them to Airborne first, before RASP. From what the Liason told me, that was just an experimental thing, not permanent.


 
Are they still experimenting with the RS part of the pipeline? Trying to send more and more guys to school before they get to their respective battalions?


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## dknob (Dec 13, 2011)

Tropicana98 said:


> Are they still experimenting with the RS part of the pipeline? Trying to send more and more guys to school before they get to their respective battalions?


 
I believe that follow on assignment to SURT (Pre Ranger Course) and RS after RASP and Airborne is very very dependent on your individual performance during RASP. Not something that is automatically part of the pipeline.


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## Tropicana98 (Dec 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> I believe that follow on assignment to SURT (Pre Ranger Course) and RS after RASP and Airborne is very very dependent on your individual performance during RASP. Not something that is automatically part of the pipeline.


 
Thanks dknob.

Here's the thread if you haven't read it or if anyone other young guys want to know why this is harped on so much...LINK


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## goon175 (Dec 13, 2011)

Things have been changing and continue to change with the Ranger pipeline, and will also vary on your MOS. Just be flexible and roll with the punches. What it is now, may not be when you get there.


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## seasider12 (Jun 6, 2012)

COA 1: I will enlist in the Army under an 18X contract, get selected, complete the Q-course, and become an 18D SF medic. 
COA 2: I will enlist under an 18X contract. If I fail some part of the Q-course or selection I will put in for RASP and become a Ranger.
COA 3: I will enlist  under an 18X contract. If I fail prior to completion of airborne school I will do my best to be a valuable asset as an infantryman and take opportunities for further advanced training.


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## Etype (Jun 6, 2012)

seasider12 said:


> COA 1: I will enlist in the Army under an 18X contract, get selected, complete the Q-course, and become an 18D SF medic.
> COA 2: I will enlist under an 18X contract. If I fail some part of the Q-course or selection I will put in for RASP and become a Ranger.
> You'll spend some time in the 82nd, which isn't a bad place to be either.  If Ranger School then becomes your goal, tryout for scouts and the 82 will send you- or you could put in a 4187 to go to RASP.
> COA 3: I will enlist under an 18X contract. If I fail prior to completion of airborne school I will do my best to be a valuable asset as an infantryman and take opportunities for further advanced training.


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## seasider12 (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks Etype. Good to know.


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## dirtmover (Jun 12, 2012)

I would like to play too!!

COA #1:  Finish with DS Duty then PCS to Carson and get orders to Group as an Engineer then put in a secret squirrel packet
COA#2:  Go to Carson put in my packet for CST be selected and go to group
COA#3:  Go to Carson stay in the Engineer Batt.  and go to Sapper school (hopefully in the winter)
COA#4:  Carson and deploy and look at reclassing


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## Etype (Jun 12, 2012)

Why not come to Fort Bragg?  We've got USASOC, USASFC, JSOC, 3rd Group- it's the place to be.  10th doesn't own the SOTFs very often, 3rd is the place to be for CST.


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## goon175 (Jun 12, 2012)

COA #1: ETS and go to CO NG 19th grp SOT-A whilst pursuing a finance career
COA #2: Re-enlist, re-class to 35P, go to an AD group as a SOT-A
COA #3: Incite a war between the U.S. and a moderately developed country, go back to the 75th, and crush skulls
COA #4: ETS and Run for Senator like a boss


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## Etype (Jun 12, 2012)

goon175 said:


> COA #1: ETS and go to CO NG 19th grp SOT-A whilst pursuing a finance career
> COA #2: Re-enlist, re-class to 35P, go to an AD group as a SOT-A
> COA #3: Incite a war between the U.S. and a moderately developed country, go back to the 75th, and crush skulls
> COA #4: ETS and Run for Senator like a boss


Bro, just go to the damn q-course and live the SF NG dream. Those dudes get PAID while they are in the q-course, then do almost as much training as AD guys if they want.
You can still do whatever you want on the side, Surgicalcric is a good guy to talk to.


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## dirtmover (Jun 12, 2012)

Etype-  It was either Stewart, Benning, Polk, Hood, Drum, or Carson...I was at Bragg right before I came on the trail and they wanted to sent me some place I hadn't been before.  It sucks that I used up my Bragg assginment on a water purification unit:sick:.  I would love to go back there though.


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## Etype (Jun 12, 2012)

dirtmover said:


> Etype- It was either Stewart, Benning, Polk, Hood, Drum, or Carson...I was at Bragg right before I came on the trail and they wanted to sent me some place I hadn't been before. It sucks that I used up my Bragg assginment on a water purification unit:sick:. I would love to go back there though.


Are you airborne qualified?  If not, a 4187 to jump school and successful completion gives you some weight to throw around.


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## Unstoppable (Jun 12, 2012)

COA #1: I will become a seabee, get my medical issues fixed and put in for SPECWAR
COA #2: I will become a seabee, and by the end of my contract go blue to green and put in for 11b and become the best there is.
COA #3: I will become a seabee, and if none of the above options are available I will put in for some sort of PMC or attempt some sort of work with The Company


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## Salt USMC (Jun 13, 2012)

COA #1: Enlist in the CANG, go through SFQC and become an 18E, and eventually an 18F
COA #2: Enlist in CANG, not make it through the Q, take it in stride and be a great 35F
COA #3: Stay in the corps FOREVER
COA #4: EAS and wander the earth searching for meaning in life, ala David Carradine in "Kung Fu"

Edit: Can we integrate some IPB in there too?

MLCOA: Enlist in CANG, make it through SFQC (after a few abortive attempts), live the dream
MDCOA: Abandon military altogether, join OccupyWallstreet protesters, become new overlord of their socialist republic


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## goon175 (Jun 13, 2012)

> COA #2: I will become a seabee, and by the end of my contract go blue to green and put in for 11b and become the best there is.


 
There really isn't a "blue to green" program anymore. You basically just fall under the same prior service rules as anyone else.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 13, 2012)

dirtmover said:


> I would like to play too!!
> 
> COA #1: Finish with DS Duty then PCS to Carson and get orders to Group as an Engineer then put in a secret squirrel packet
> COA#2: Go to Carson put in my packet for CST be selected and go to group
> ...


 
What units are you considering?  You're a female engineer, right?  There are only a couple of places in SOF you can go, IIRC.


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## Unstoppable (Jun 13, 2012)

goon175 said:


> There really isn't a "blue to green" program anymore. You basically just fall under the same prior service rules as anyone else.


Just gonna have to switch the old fashioned way then. Unless I decide to stay with the Bees, 5 years is a long time.


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## dirtmover (Jun 17, 2012)

Marauder06- You’re correct. lol I have to find them first.  I was told that there are some out there in addition to CST and AWG that would be a good fit for me, couldn't give me any names so I guess I need to keep my eyes and ears open and prepare just in case the opportunity arises.  Had thought about GSP but they require an active TS/SCI and some other stuff as prerequisites and I don't have either.

Etype- I refused to pull out the kneepads while I was at Bragg so no jump wings for this girl right now.  Once I get out of FLW I am going to renew my efforts to get my wings!!


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## goon175 (Jun 17, 2012)

> Had thought about GSP but they require an active TS/SCI and some other stuff as prerequisites and I don't have either.


 
What is GSP?


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## Etype (Jun 17, 2012)

Maybe GSB, group support battalion.


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## dirtmover (Jun 17, 2012)

Great Skills Program


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## Etype (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok, I have heard of that- don't know what it is though.

AWG and CST are as easy as volunteering and trying out.


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## goon175 (Jun 17, 2012)

ah gotchya. I thought that was only for MI folks?


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## Marauder06 (Jun 17, 2012)

goon175 said:


> ah gotchya. I thought that was only for MI folks?


 Nope.


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## goon175 (Jun 17, 2012)

> Nope.


 


You learn something new every day! For some reason I am thinking that the Great Skills Program is just another name for a unit I know as something else. Or maybe not.


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## Powder (Jun 18, 2012)

COA 1. Pass Selection and Q Course and get tabbed. 
COA 2. Get attached to one of the AD groups and provide all the good intels.
COA 2.5 Do some other cool guy course and be super secret squirrel.
COA 3. Stay RA and slowly go insane.
COA 4. PCS to Ft. Couch and frequently tell people I was in the big war.


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## Red Ryder (Sep 11, 2013)

COA 1. Enlist as a Rep-63 with B 2/19 out of Columbus, the appeal of this course is that I get to choose which 18 series MOS I would get. Get Selected, pass the Q, then be a Guard bum for as long as I can.
COA 2. Enlist active duty with a 18X contract, pass SFAS, the Q. 
COA 3. If I don't pass SFAS or the Q go to the 82nd most likely and have the honor of wearing the same patch my Grandpa did in WWII and be the best damn Paratrooper I can be until I can put in a SF packet.


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## goon175 (Sep 11, 2013)

goon175 said:


> COA #1: ETS and go to CO NG 19th grp SOT-A whilst pursuing a finance career
> COA #2: Re-enlist, re-class to 35P, go to an AD group as a SOT-A
> COA #3: Incite a war between the U.S. and a moderately developed country, go back to the 75th, and crush skulls
> COA #4: ETS and Run for Senator like a boss



Good lord I have gone down a very different path. Life is freakin' crazy...

Although, if something sparks up again, I'll be knocking on 19th Groups door in a hurry.


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## Brill (Sep 13, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Good lord I have gone down a very different path. Life is freakin' crazy...
> 
> Although, if something sparks up again, I'll be knocking on 19th Groups door in a hurry.



Do it sooner rather than later cuz it SUCKS as an older guy.


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