# LRS Book



## Hornbill (Aug 8, 2012)

Good evening,

I have posted an intro with a little information of myself.  I am working on work of _fiction_ about the exploits of a guy who served in various LRS units.  Other than what I can find in books and on the internet, I have left out many details, simply because I have no experience in the military.

_Would this forum be a proper place to ask certain questions_?  I am aware that some questions might be out of line in terms of operational security and such, and will try to refrain from those.  Most questions would be in the nature of... "how much or what would you have carried?" or "how unrealistic is this?".  Although it is a work of fiction and contains Hollywood style bullets zinging around but never hitting the hero type scenes, I would like to get as many details as accurate as I can.

If this post is in the wrong forum, I apologize.  If it is okay to post in here as I intended, that would be great.  If there's a more suitable way to accomplish my goals, like PM's or something, I'm all ears.  Thank you for your time.

Cheers...
AT


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## AWP (Aug 9, 2012)

You can post questions, just keep in mind a few basic points:
1) Members may or may not respond.
2) Limit your questions to a single thread in one forum; don't spam the forum.
3) TTP's will not be discussed unless they are in the public domain, i.e. LRRP-type stuff in Vietnam through the late 80's. Pretty much anything in the last 20 years will be off limits.
4) Don't PM our members, they can PM you if they want to help or post in this thread for you to PM them; don't PM "in the blind."
5) I don't know how much research you've already done into LRS, but the more informed your questions, the more likely that someone will help out.

Good luck.


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## Hornbill (Aug 9, 2012)

Freefalling, thank you for the pointers.  I will attempt to use as much common sense and courtesy as I can, and if I slip, I'm sure someone here will let me know ;)


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## CDG (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not an LRS guy, so I can't offer any advice there.  Have you read any of the multiple books written by and about LRS units though?  A quick search on Amazon using the parameter of "LRRP" yielded quite a few results......

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...pbooks&field-keywords=LRRp&rh=n:283155,k:LRRp


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## Hornbill (Aug 9, 2012)

CDG said:


> I'm not an LRS guy, so I can't offer any advice there. Have you read any of the multiple books written by and about LRS units though? A quick search on Amazon using the parameter of "LRRP" yielded quite a few results......
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=stripbooks&field-keywords=LRRp&rh=n:283155,k:LRRp


CDG, I have not, but that's really a good idea.  I haven't read up on LRRP's much because of the assumption (right or wrong, based on FM 7-93 and news articles) that the current LRS units' main missions today are a little different (more surveillance, limited reconnaissance).  Since the LRS unit in my book does quite a fair share of DA missions, they're probably more in line with the LRRP's of the past.  So now I have a couple of books in my Kindle queue 

I've been reading papers from the Combined Arms Research Library and it has been quite informative.

Thanks for the tip!


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## Hornbill (Aug 10, 2012)

Greetings,

In a Combat Studies Institute "Operational Leadership Experiences" interview with a Major that led the 82nd Airborne's LRSD, he mentioned "The fact that I took my two military freefall teams brought in the issue of if we were going to use military freefall as an insertion method."  That statement seems to imply that not all teams are MFF qualified, which I thought was the case.

Barring MFF school scheduling issues that might cause some team members to not be MFF qualified, are only some and not all LRS teams in a detachment/company are slotted for MFF training?  The same questions extends to the SEALs in a SEAL platoon (the LRS troopers in the book interacts with them).

If this question violates any kind of security protocols and delves into the classified realm, I trust that someone will let me know and I apologize.  Thank you for any help.

Cheers...
AT


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## goon175 (Aug 13, 2012)

Not all LRS are MFF qualified. Very few units, even within SOCOM, have 100% of their members MFF qualified.

NSW has recently stood up their own static line/MFF jump school that allows all of their guys to be MFF qualified as apart of their initial pipeline, as opposed to competing with the other branch's for slots at the Army static line and MFF schools.


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## Brill (Aug 13, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> You can post questions, just keep in mind a few basic points:
> 1) Members may or may not respond.


 
Did you really just type that out in public?


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 13, 2012)

HAHA!  lindy is not a big fan of "may or may not" preceding a verb.


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## AWP (Aug 13, 2012)

lindy said:


> Did you really just type that out in public?


 
I do a lot of things in public.


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## Chopstick (Aug 13, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> I do a lot of things in public.


And as far as we know..no arrests!


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 13, 2012)

Hornbill , I have _The Ghosts of the Highlands: _1st Cav LRRP in Vietnam, 1966-'67
If you'd like it, PM me your address and I'll ship it to you.


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## Hornbill (Aug 13, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Not all LRS are MFF qualified. Very few units, even within SOCOM, have 100% of their members MFF qualified.
> 
> NSW has recently stood up their own static line/MFF jump school that allows all of their guys to be MFF qualified as apart of their initial pipeline, as opposed to competing with the other branch's for slots at the Army static line and MFF schools.


Goon175, thanks for the info.  I looked up the Navy's jump school and it mentioned that they also train Army soldiers.  Interesting.  Thanks again!

Cheers...
AT


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## goon175 (Aug 13, 2012)

It's interesting you bring up that they take army soldiers. I had a buddy of mine who was slotted to go to MFF, but the open seats at the JFKSWCS were during a major training exercise for us, but the navy had slots open during a more conveniant time. He was all set to go, before he was told at the last minute that the navy school didn't follow the same standards as the army's, so he wouldn't be able to jump MFF for us. I'm not sure what the discrepency was, and it should also be noted that this was relatively soon after the school first stood up, so maybe they hadn't worked all the kinks out. Either way, my buddy was not a very happy camper about the whole thing.


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## Hornbill (Aug 13, 2012)

goon175, bummer for your buddy.  It seems to me that the different branches would standardize their training, at least for the more specialized schools.  But that's just a civilian's opinion, I'm sure there may be good reasons that I wouldn't know about.


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## AWP (Aug 13, 2012)

goon175 said:


> It's interesting you bring up that they take army soldiers. I had a buddy of mine who was slotted to go to MFF, but the open seats at the JFKSWCS were during a major training exercise for us, but the navy had slots open during a more conveniant time. He was all set to go, before he was told at the last minute that the navy school didn't follow the same standards as the army's, so he wouldn't be able to jump MFF for us. I'm not sure what the discrepency was, and it should also be noted that this was relatively soon after the school first stood up, so maybe they hadn't worked all the kinks out. Either way, my buddy was not a very happy camper about the whole thing.


 
For awhile that is correct, Yuma didn't recognize the Navy school for whatever reason. 18C4V would probably know the whole story and current situation. I do know at one point graduates of the Navy school couldn't go to MFF JM at Yuma because of it.


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## goon175 (Aug 13, 2012)

I believe the issue has since been resolved, but like I said the instance I was talking about was in the navy schools early years.


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## Hornbill (Aug 14, 2012)

Good evening...

In a few of the chapters, I wrote an alternate version of the battle on Takur Ghar in Operation Anaconda.  In short, the alternate version being that the protagonist's unit had scale the mountain in a reconnaissance mission, killed the bad guys and used it as a surveillance site during the operation.  In a way the fictional account is what I wished would have happened (no good guys perish), instead of the tragedy that did.  I do not intend slight or snub the sacrifices that were made on that mountain.

To be honest I'm struggling with this a little bit.  I guess I'm asking for opinions in this case.  Is a fictional alternate version disrespectful?  I really don't mean it to be.  If the overwhelming response is that it is disrespectful, I will change the nature of these chapters to something completely fictitious.  Thank you for your time.

Cheers...
AT


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## goon175 (Aug 15, 2012)

In my opinion, yes it is disrespectful.

If you want to stick with the story line you have, you should change the name of the mountain and the name of the operation.

But to be honest, the concept doesn't make sense. To have a succesful hide site in which to conduct recon/surveillance, you need to remain undetected. If a major fire fight happens in the general area the hide site is to be located, then it is no longer a suitable area.

To be blunt, you need to re-work the whole idea.


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## Hornbill (Aug 15, 2012)

goon175, thanks for the input.  I'll be changing the names of the mountain and operation.  The last thing I want to do is offend/disrespect anybody, especially service members/veterans (well, I'll probably offend some Iraqis and Afghans but someone's gotta be the bad guy).

As far as the concept, without giving too much away...
Four young soldiers infil'ed a few miles from the mountain, walked towards it in the dark, as they reached the mountaintop close to sunrise, they walked as quietly/stealthily as they could, crunching snow under their boots.  As they approached an outcropping, they were compromised by an unarmed bad guy on his way to take a piss.  The soldiers hesitated since the bad guy was unarmed, but opened fire with their suppressed rifles (I know I know, can't help but be a little Hollywood with the suppressors  ), killed the bad guy, then continued on to look for other bad guys (where there's one...), found three more and with the element of surprised, killed them all without them getting a shot off.  Anyway, since the sun was coming out, did not want to exfil in daylight.  The chapters continue about them being "stuck" up there and being compromised again the next evening.  In other words, the whole plan to remain undetected got screwed up, and they had to improvise.

That's about four chapters in one paragraph.  Hope that makes a little more sense! :nerd:


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## Hornbill (Aug 19, 2012)

Another question...

The LRS FM states that leaders are ranger qualified.  The TOE also notes that the 11B1's have P instead of V SQI.  Is the FM and TOE the last word?  Or do individual units get to decide if they want to send an E3 to Ranger School?  Thank you for any help.

Cheers...
AT


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## 0699 (Aug 19, 2012)

What does it matter what suffix you use?  If you put Hollywood BS in there, why not go the whole way and make it all up? 

I've never understood the idea of a "realistic work of fiction"...


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## AWP (Aug 19, 2012)

To add to what was posted above, just set it 5 years in the future. That way you can be close on your facts and if anyone is dork enough to challenge them you can point to the calendar. The scenario you provided on the previous page was so..."abnormal" that the coding of an E-3's slot is irrelevant.


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## Hornbill (Aug 19, 2012)

0699 said:


> What does it matter what suffix you use? If you put Hollywood BS in there, why not go the whole way and make it all up?
> 
> I've never understood the idea of a "realistic work of fiction"...


Ah, I guess I didn't word my question correctly... I was trying to ask if it's realistic that a private would get to go to Ranger School.  But that's a valid point about "go the whole way and make it all up?".  I guess I'm heading in that direction anyway, so the hero's going to Ranger School! 



Freefalling said:


> To add to what was posted above, just set it 5 years in the future. That way you can be close on your facts and if anyone is dork enough to challenge them you can point to the calendar. The scenario you provided on the previous page was so..."abnormal" that the coding of an E-3's slot is irrelevant.


Thanks for the pointer, I will consider the time change


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## goon175 (Aug 20, 2012)

E-3's can and do go to RS, but they are E-4's upon graduation. In big army units, which a LRS unit would be considered, they require a waiver to send an E-3, but that is usually not a big deal. Also, as long as they have the minimum time in service required (2 years), they get an automatic promotion to E-5.


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## Hornbill (Aug 20, 2012)

goon175 said:


> E-3's can and do go to RS, but they are E-4's upon graduation. In big army units, which a LRS unit would be considered, they require a waiver to send an E-3, but that is usually not a big deal. Also, as long as they have the minimum time in service required (2 years), they get an automatic promotion to E-5.


Thanks.  Was not aware of the promotion to E-4 upon graduation, that makes sense.  I appreciate the help!


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## mike_cos (Aug 20, 2012)

LOL


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## Marauder06 (Aug 20, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> To add to what was posted above, just set it 5 years in the future. That way you can be close on your facts and if anyone is dork enough to challenge them you can point to the calendar. The scenario you provided on the previous page was so..."abnormal" that the coding of an E-3's slot is irrelevant.


 
And you can make your Ranger School grad female!


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## Hornbill (Aug 20, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> And you can make your Ranger School grad female!


Haha yeah!  I asked Demi but she declined  , said she has nothing left to prove after BUD/S.  She thinks she's hot shit since becoming a SEAL.  Couldn't argue with her there ;)


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## Hornbill (May 7, 2014)

Well, I won't be publishing this book, just doesn't feel... right.  I really appreciate the input from those that helped.  This forum was and still is a great resource for not just aspiring servicemen, but also aspiring authors and I'm sure many others too.  I hope it stays as successful as it has been.  Thank you!

Cheers...


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