# Competitive shooting on low budget?



## Lefty375 (Mar 12, 2017)

Background: I was considering getting back into shooting and not letting my skills disappear. However, I don't have unlimited amounts of ammo anymore as I'm just a college student. 

Is it possible to start practicing again for cheap and eventually start competing? I have done some research and 3-gun seems like the most fun, but also the most expensive. I wouldn't mind doing Pistol only until I get a real job.

I will be starting from scratch regarding gear. If anyone can help with recommendations for weapons/equipment (maybe that offer discounts), or even some type of organization that provides reduced cost for veterans/students.  

Thanks all.


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## Devildoc (Mar 12, 2017)

You are a Ranger so you know all the important stuff: trigger control, manipulation, stances, dry firing (esp import with pistol).  To shoot for real on the cheap, get a .22; as you are well aware, the fundamentals are irrespective of the caliber.  Get into reloading at some point.

9mm...cheapest for competition, plentiful, cheap to reload.  Kill two birds with one stone and get a Glock or S&W M&P and buy a .22 upper receiver.  If you go to 3-gun, don't skimp on the AR.  Many 3-gunners like the 18" barrel, but with your experience/skill set, you would do well with a good ol' 16" recce with a 1-4/1-6 scope.  RDS like Aimpoint or EO Tech is great for center mass, but the scope is really imperative for precision.  A Rem 870 or Mossberg 500 is just fine for shotty.  Just make sure you get ghost rings or sights.

As for reduced costs for vets, I can't help (since I don't know any).  You can start calling around the local shooting clubs, watching the matches, seeing what they have.  I am sure your state or locale has an online shooting forum, you can pick up your guns and gear cheaper used that way.


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## Centermass (Mar 12, 2017)

2 words - 

*WOLF AMMO *- The MOST disgusting ammunition known to mankind.


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## ShadowSpear (Mar 12, 2017)

Centermass said:


> 2 words -
> 
> *WOLF AMMO *- The MOST disgusting ammunition known to mankind.



Disgusting and Wolf gives you plenty of opportunities to practice malfunction drills


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## Totentanz (Mar 12, 2017)

FWIW, when I shot* USPSA and IDPA, the only difference between my normal carry setup and my competition setup was the number of mags.  I'm not sure what you're running, but most OWB holsters are good to go for competition.  A couple $20 Blackhawk double mag holders and a couple spare mags was all it took.

Doesn't do anything for the other parts of 3-gun but you don't HAVE to rock race equipment for pistol matches.

ETA - re: ammo.  I've frequently found that more often than not, it's significantly cheaper to buy in bulk.  It hurts to swipe a credit card to the tune of a couple hundred dollars on an expendable aspect, but it hurts less than adding up gun shop receipts for the same amount with less to show for it when you buy box-by-box.


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## Totentanz (Mar 12, 2017)

I just re-read your post and realized you'd asked about weapon as well (my post above assumed you had something already, not starting completely from scratch).  For pistol, I'd go Glock.  If you qualify for a Blue Label discount in any way, that'll bring the price from about $500-550 (normal price) to $440 or so.  Glocks are difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to stop, and aftermarket equipment is plentiful and less expensive than a lot of alternatives (e.g. Glock PMags can be had for $15 and factory mags can be had for about $20, while for a Sig you're looking at around $45 per).  I don't know of a single holster manufacturer who doesn't offer a holster for Glocks (maybe there's one out there, but...)

There are alternatives, but on a budget they're hard to beat for price and availability.


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## policemedic (Mar 12, 2017)

I think @Devildoc  covered it pretty well. 

The handgun should be something you can compete and use as a practical defensive weapon. The Glock fits the bill and even the MOS version--I'd recommend it based on what you intend to do with it--won't break the bank. 

ARs are plentiful and you can build your own if you like.

You can absolutely do well with a pump shotgun like an 870 to start with, though as time goes on you may want to trick it out with an extended magazine, side saddle and such. 

Absolutely get into reloading. @Ranger Psych knows full well the benefits of shooting a lot whilst  reloading, if I recall. In the interim, buy bulk ammo online. Look for retailers with free shipping.


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## Ranger Psych (Mar 12, 2017)

230k rounds through the .45 Expert. Nearly 100k in one year (2003/4) for stress relief and training.

You don't need race gun bullshit to be competitive anyway. Get angood pistol you like and are down to carry for ccw. Get a rifle you dig. Get a shotgun you dig.  Then just train. Reloading will make your money for shooting last longer....not save you money.  We spent the same we did on ammo pre-reloader, with the reloader...but shot 3x as much.


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## Ranger Psych (Mar 12, 2017)

The other advantage of doing this stuff with "service" weapons ie what you carry on the regular, keep in the house for hunting, home defense, etc....is you will get pro tier at handling them like an extension of yourself.

Even now, with the minimal shooting I get to do due to hometime restrictions from my work, I still can meet triple nickle standard plus FAM standards for accuracy and time... although I am not a club member of either entity.  One of many reasons I still rock my USP's.


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## Lefty375 (Mar 12, 2017)

I seriously appreciate all the advice. I love this forum and all you gun nerds.


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## Hillclimb (Mar 12, 2017)

You can piecemeal a good rifle together between dvor.com deals, righttobear.com, and sandersarmoryusa.com. Probably for around 600$.

If you already have a rifle, then amazon the Vortex strike eagle 1-6x, drop in trigger, and competition muzzle brake (email JPrifles.com about a mil discount) and you'll be set up for comp shooting.

Glock 34s with warren g fiber optic sights are nice for USPSA and the like. I just run a g code inner/outter belt for 70$, with 4 x HSGI taco pistol mag pouches, and 1 x m4 mag pouch. its simple and doesn't look as gay as some shit you'll see out there. 

When I first started i had a cheap 20$ paddle holster for my G19, and some double mag holder from Amazon called fobus i think. I still had fun at USPSA matches and wasnt too far behind those nerds with  $7000 STI 1911s.


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## 104TN (Mar 12, 2017)

Hillclimb said:


> ...If you already have a rifle, then amazon the Vortex strike eagle 1-6x...


FWIW, Vortex has a pretty killer military discount program. More @ Promotive.com - Incentives for Insiders!


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## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2017)

104TN said:


> FWIW, Vortex has a pretty killer military discount program. More @ Promotive.com - Incentives for Insiders!



So does Leupold if interested in the Mark series but I suspect by the OP's quest for least expensive it's still too much.

Other places for 'discount' optics/gear:

Dvor
SWFA sample list


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## Gunz (Mar 13, 2017)

I have a cheap Uncle Mike's pancake holster (I think it was about $12) that I've had for years...and it's a great holster because literally anything between a tiny Ruger LCR and a full size 1911 fits in it safely and snugly and can be easily drawn. Sometimes cheap stuff turns out to be good stuff.


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## SmokinOkie (Mar 13, 2017)

Doing some research on saving $$$ on ammo myself, I stumbled upon a website called bitethebullet.co
They have a deal with a few particular 9mm rounds they make that the first 1000 rounds you buy is $209.00 but if you send the spent casings back to be reloaded you only pay $139.00 for your next 1000. The alloy of the casings they use are magnetic so you can get a rolling magnet from Lowe's or Home Depot and its much easier to pick them up and also if you don't find all 1000 they will credit you for however many you do actually turn it. I have yet to ship casings back so I am not sure how much you actually save due to cost of shipping.
They also have frangible rounds and rounds of other calibers (5.56, 300 blackout, 45. 40, rimfire) for a really good price.


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## Hillclimb (Mar 13, 2017)

Totentanz said:


> factory mags can be had for about $20, while for a Sig you're looking at around $45 per).
> .



I hate you about as much as the person that showed me dvor right now


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## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2017)

How small a budget are we talking here?

Different areas of the country have different options but since 3-gun was specifically mentioned, here are some of my thoughts in no particular order:

If you can have fun just going out and throwing rounds down range, without feeling you have to "win", then you can 3-gun with whatever you've got.  As mentioned above, with your training, you'd likely do fairly well in a 3-gun tactical division.  It's the most popular division due to barrier to entry; you see all kinds of set-ups here.  There is also a division of tactical (Tac - Limited/Tac - Iron) were an optic is not used.

Pistol:  I'm not a striker fire guy (for no real logical reason) but if I was on a budget, I would be and it'd be tough to ignore Glock.  Everyone uses them.  Very good used 9mm (minimum 3-gun caliber) are almost a dime a dozen.  A G34 can be found for around $600+.  Aside from Glock,  S&W M&P9 or a CZ 75  are also decent at around $600 new.  However, consider looking for a nice used pistol and save yourself another $100 or so.  If you want to run a shorter barrel (ex. 3.5") so your pistol does double duty as a carry gun, go ahead; I've shot with my Sig 229 and HK P2000 and they worked just fine.  Plus, you're using what you carry as opposed to a more dedicated race gun.

Shotgun:  Guys use pump shotguns.  Obviously, semi-auto is generally better but you don't need to go apeshit out of the gate here.  You could do an Remington 970 but the Benelli Nova is also a fairly affordable option.  If you can only get one choke, get a Light Modified.  You can get a 20g but get a 12g, if for no other reason than resale.  Expect ~$500.

Rifle:  AR is most popular.  Needs to be at least .223.   16 - 18" barrels are most popular.  I wouldn't go longer or shorter.  Obviously there is a ton that can be done with the AR platform; it's like Legos for big boys.  If you know someone that has the tools, you can build your own from receiver on up.  Otherwise, find something that gives you a base to grow from.  That said, if you want something out of the box, Bushmaster offers a preconfigured version called the QRC and it comes with a red dot and 30 round mag for about $700.

Other stuff:

You don't need/want rifle/shotgun slings for most 3-gun competitions, so don't worry about those
You'll need at least 3 pistol magazines
You'll need a pouch or carrier for shotgun shells
You'll need 2 rifle magazines
Eyes
Ears
Recommend a holster with good retention while you're moving around; BladeTech's are popular in my neck off the woods
So, looking at the totals above and assuming a start from absolute zero, minimum to get up and running will be right around $2000; not including ammo.


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## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2017)

OP, if you are interested in Glock, they have the first responders/mil discount.  I am sure some of the others do, too, but a penny here and there will add up in this sport.  Also think used.  A used Glock is $400-$500.

Per @Blizzard I second Blade Tech.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 13, 2017)

My honest opinion, show up to local matches, watch, help support the match, set up, clean, etc. Let people see your face and come to know you, they will respect your desire to learn and willingness to help. If you have a personality halfway worth a shit, people will start giving you gear, or selling it to you and significantly cheaper. I've literally have pulled brand new $250 BUIS off my carbine in the middle of a match and handed them to a teenager. He wanted them and they were pissin me off, that stuff happens all the time. Especially when dudes get pissed off. I saw a brand new Ruger SR9 get sold with holster, extra mag and pouchesfor $200 at IDPA classifier because an former expert shot marksman. People get pissed and start doing stupid shit, and that's when you want to be the liked guy, who is looking for kit that has a couple hundred buck in your wallet.

Hell most guys run 2-3 back ups, and will let you use their extra shit to learn. One of my former employee's would  shoot IDPA, with my spare guns and kit.

My overall point is the shooter community is full of really good people who want nothing more than to help dudes such as yourself get involved in the sport. Be humble, be helpful and willing to learn, and I can almost bet you will get kitted out on the cheap and make some life long friends in the process.


ETA: You will also get talk with people who are in the know of the sport and it will help you decide on kit and the guns you want (i.e. talk with the Masters/Grand, not the novice).
My $.02


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## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> My honest opinion, show up to local matches, watch, help support the match, set up, clean, etc. Let people see your face and come to know you, they will respect your desire to learn and willingness to help...
> 
> ...My overall point is the shooter community is full of really good people who want nothing more than to help dudes such as yourself get involved in the sport. Be humble, be helpful and willing to learn, and I can almost bet you will get kitted out on the cheap and make some life long friends in the process.


@Diamondback 2/2 's post is full of gold but the comments above cannot be emphasized enough. 

As an example, the first few times I showed up to courses/matches, I had dudes simply take pity on me when they saw me pull out my Browning BPS pump.  I didn't say anything about it nor did I ask.  They basically came up to me and said "here, use this instead" and handed over some high brow hardware; ie. high-end match configured Benelli's and FN's. 

Point is, everyone wants to have a good time and, so long as you're not an asshat, you'll probably find a lot of people willing to go out of their way to help you out.


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## Totentanz (Mar 13, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> My honest opinion, show up to local matches, watch, help support the match, set up, clean, etc. Let people see your face and come to know you, they will respect your desire to learn and willingness to help. If you have a personality halfway worth a shit, people will start giving you gear, or selling it to you and significantly cheaper. I've literally have pulled brand new $250 BUIS off my carbine in the middle of a match and handed them to a teenager. He wanted them and they were pissin me off, that stuff happens all the time. Especially when dudes get pissed off. I saw a brand new Ruger SR9 get sold with holster, extra mag and pouchesfor $200 at IDPA classifier because an former expert shot marksman. People get pissed and start doing stupid shit, and that's when you want to be the liked guy, who is looking for kit that has a couple hundred buck in your wallet.



First match I went to I showed short on mags (didn't know what I didn't know); the guy behind me in line at registration literally jumped in his truck and went back to the house to make sure I had enough (plus mag pouches) to run the match.

Even if you don't get guns shoved into your hands, most folks are VERY willing to share solid, pragmatic advice.  It's a far cry from the gunshow commando types who like to spout off, and much more of the type of person who cares about the sport and wants to see more people showing up to matches and succeeding.  As @Diamondback 2/2 said - personality goes a long way... if you're the type of person they want coming back (ie not an assclown), they'll do what they can to see you come back.  If they don't or if you get a negative vibe, find a different club/match.


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## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2017)

I echo above.  There are some solid guys in the sport.  It's amazing how humble some of those guys are, the lives they lived, but how personable and helpful they can be.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 13, 2017)

Something else I forgot to say, is that it would be better for you to learn the organization rules and get a general idea of how things work, before you commit to an organization membership.  IDPA, USPSA, STA, NRA. etc are all vastly different in rules and methods.  You will probably gravitate towards one or the other, saving those membership dues and match fees will be beneficial if you are on a budget.

I also recommend once you have decided on an organization and classified, take the range safety officer course for that organization asap. They are cheap, and the best way to know and understand the rules, so that you don't end up relying on hearsay, or getting fucked by a pissed off RSO who wants to make it up as they go. Like anything else out there, there is a 10% of shit heads.

If you have specific questions about how to find local matches, what organizations are what and who put on 3 gun/multi gun, feel free to post here or PM me. There are ton of guys on here that are shooters, but I also get sometimes we don't wanna be the guy with a silly question. I'm sure the offer goes for anyone else who posted in this thread.


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## busdriver (Mar 15, 2017)

3-Gun is silly expensive, especially if you're starting from scratch in the gear department.  So my advice would be to start with pistol only, and stick to 9mm to keep cost down. So IDPA or USPSA, as was mentioned you'll gravitate towards one or the other naturally, so try them both.

First and foremost: DO NOT buy any competition specific gear until you've gone to your first match.  If you want a Glock 17 or 34 anyways, have a nut, otherwise just go check it out and watch.  I promise there will be dudes who will trip over themselves to let you shoot their toys.  If you're close to any of the shooters on this board, I'd bet you can find an entire rig to try it out for free right here.

EDIT ADD: Second, you don't need lots of ammo to get very good.  Dry fire is where the majority of your practice should be.  You'll need to verify things in live fire periodically, but you can absolutely fit it into a student's budget.

Companies market guns as competition models that are either not legal or not even remotely competitive in the division they are legal for.  Same goes for gear.  A Glock 17 would work for both, even if it isn't ideal, but do not buy one that has been modified before you know what is legal for competition.

Here's some basics re IDPA and USPSA:

IDPA is less expensive based on typical round count for matches, you only need two spare mags and one double mag pouch.  The rules punish inaccuracy more than USPSA, the stages are capped at a lower round count and the rules about cover and whatnot tend to slow down the pace.  The stage designs and rules tend to leave less room for choices; my experience in this game is very limited but my impression was that there tended to be a "right way" to shoot a stage.  A typical stage will have some sort of notional scenario like "you're at the mall and terrorists start shooting up the place, after you get your family behind cover you ...." then you'd engage the targets in accordance with the rules (tactical priority, use cover, no dropping loaded mags on the ground, etc).  A Glock 17 would work here, the 34 is not allowed.

USPSA is a bit more expensive, sticking to 9mm you'd want to eventually shoot production division.  I only mention that since that division is limited to 10 rounds in a mag, which is the same as what you'd be shooting in IDPA, but the max round count per stage is 32 in this game.  So you'll want a min of 4 extra mags on your belt, 5 is better.  That costs a bit more.  Speed and accuracy are a bit more balanced, they're both very important.  You'll read internet nonsense about it being about running around squirting bullets, and you'll see it at matches.  Those people aren't good.  That said, there's a learning curve and you end up missing a lot learning to go fast.  The stages are supposed to be setup with freestyle in mind.  In other words, a good stage presents options to the shooter and lets you do whatever you want as long as it's safe.  The written stage brief might say "starting with heels on X's facing down range, handgun loaded and holstered IAW rule 8.1.1 & 8.1.2, at the starting signal engage targets as they become visible from within the free fire area."  Then you'd shoot all the targets twice and knock down any steel in whatever order you want from anywhere inside the fault lines, none of the "tactical" rules apply.  A Glock 17 would work here, but a 34 would be better mainly for the extra sight radius.

If it sounds like I'm a Glock fan boy, I'm not, I actually hate them, but they're hard to beat for value as long as you don't dump a bunch of money trying to make them something they aren't.


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## JohnBender (May 12, 2017)

Not to add too much more but when you catch it right. you can get 9mm for about 16-17 cents per round from freedommunitons.com with free shipping. I've done about 4000 dollars of business with them ( friends and I shoot a lot, and we split orders ). We've never had any issues with any 9mm, 45, .223 or 556. I wait till they have discounts, but you can get .45 for about 24-26 cents, 223 for .27 cents. There are cheaper options out there, but they usually don't offer free shipping and that runs very high. 

The promotive/expericity option for vortex is AWESOME. I just got my spitfire 3x prism for 300 bucks shipped and that's a great option for quick but precise shooting. I was able to put 7/8 rounds within a 2-3 inch group, quick firing, from the standing at 50M with my stock bushmaster. 

Also, for 150ish I bought a CMMG .22lr conversion kit. it's a bolt and magazine that let's you shoot .22lr through any AR. while the point of aim and impact are different than a 5.56 it let's you run your gun for real cheap. I got it through lanbosarmory.com 

Hope some of that helps.


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## busdriver (May 13, 2017)

Re-attack:  the G34 is legal for IDPA.  It's illegal for IPSC, which doesn't really matter unless you're shooting overseas.  My bad.


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## policemedic (May 13, 2017)

JohnBender said:


> Not to add too much more but when you catch it right. you can get 9mm for about 16-17 cents per round from freedommunitons.com with free shipping. I've done about 4000 dollars of business with them ( friends and I shoot a lot, and we split orders ). We've never had any issues with any 9mm, 45, .223 or 556. I wait till they have discounts, but you can get .45 for about 24-26 cents, 223 for .27 cents. There are cheaper options out there, but they usually don't offer free shipping and that runs very high.



I do the same thing with them; the free shipping is awesome.


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## 104TN (May 13, 2017)

@JohnBender + @policemedic (and others) - I've got a 5% discount code for Freedom Munitions. 

I don't know if I can post it on the open board or not. Private message me if you're interested.


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## policemedic (May 13, 2017)

104TN said:


> @JohnBender + @policemedic (and others) - I've got a 5% discount code for Freedom Munitions.
> 
> I don't know if I can post it on the open board or not. Private message me if you're interested.



Thanks, me too


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## JohnBender (May 13, 2017)

I also have one guys, though I do not know if it was a one time per account use code or if has since been disabled. Regardless, message me if you want it!


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## Totentanz (May 13, 2017)

FWIW, I'm on Freedom's email list and they routinely have 5% off emails; they're usually a specific product line and rotate (eg May 3rd was 308 168grain HPBT, 223 55 grain remanufactured, 9mm 124 grain HP reman., 40 S&W RNFP (new, not reman.), 38 SPL 125 grain XTP (new), and 380 90 grain XTP (new)).

It's unusual to see that many calibers in an email, but worth signing up for the emails if you're buying in bulk and can time your purchasing to take advantage, and also to coincide with some of their free shipping offers.

Freedom also has a brass credit program (for those who don't reload).


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## AWP (May 14, 2017)

I'd never heard of Freedom Munitions until this thread. THANK YOU!


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## Lefty375 (May 14, 2017)

AWP said:


> I'd never heard of Freedom Munitions until this thread. THANK YOU!



You are welcome.

jk please don't ban me.


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