# Aviation Structural Mechanics in the 160th SOAR



## Draneol (Feb 12, 2014)

So we had a recruiter officer and his sergeants come into class today, and discussed with us direct MOSs they can guarantee us on enlistment with less, or no additional AIT training time. Among the MOSs that had 0 AIT weeks for us, was Aviation Structural Repairer. 

We can opt to have AIT in contract or not for it, because of what we are studying in school. My question is, would the 160th be open to new soldiers? if so, is it during AIT you apply, or just after AIT? My classmates have been going through the AF and Navy Recruiters to get their AM, and others for 2A7X3 and 2A7X5. The later one requires they have to take a 10 day class after boot camp. 

I guess my question is, would an MOS like this be worth skipping AIT for? And if so, what are timelines for applications? The SOR home page doesn't really say much on that. Myself and 12 others may be jumping the hoops to go 15G since we can get it guaranteed, while the rest are going AF and Navy for the same thing pretty much. 

I understand everyone has to still pass green platoon if you pursue the 160th, but at this moment I'm just looking at options between 15G and 89D. One being the focus of my entire degree pretty much, and the other for the awesomeness it sounds like. Any input?


----------



## AWP (Feb 12, 2014)

They would let you skip AIT? No AIT, none whatsoever? The Air Force will only make you go through a 10 day course in lieu of Tech School?


----------



## x SF med (Feb 12, 2014)

Even with your composites background, without the 15 week AIT I would not want to ride in an aircraft you had worked on,  But that's just me, it would be like being treated by someone who went to Basic and skipped 68W school because they'd taken a basic EMT course once.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 12, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> They would let you skip AIT? No AIT, none whatsoever? The Air Force will only make you go through a 10 day course in lieu of Tech School?


They may be able to waive a lot of training, but 10 days sounds pretty low (10 weeks?)

Fairly new AFSC, only working on B-2, F-22 and F-35's.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 12, 2014)

Draneol said:


> So we had a recruiter officer and his sergeants come into class today, and discussed with us direct MOSs they can guarantee us on enlistment with less, or no additional AIT training time. Among the MOSs that had 0 AIT weeks for us, was Aviation Structural Repairer.
> 
> I guess my question is, would an MOS like this be worth skipping AIT for?


 
Just what exactly are you studying in school?

I have personally never heard of anyone being able to skip AIT and I would personally strongly advise against it just for the fact no matter what you study in school it more than likely will not completely prepare you for Army Aviation. The time in AIT is a great time for you to learn more about Army Aviation as a whole not just your job and get some good tips and pointers along the way from your cadre. Your prior background will more than likely help you greatly but I can imagine there would still be a great deal of stuff for you to learn.

Now 160th, normally while you are at AIT a recruiter will stop by Fort Eustis at some point and hold a Regiment briefing at that point you can talk 1 on 1 with him and if you choose to, submit a packet. You have already mentioned interest in volunteering so I wont talk about DA select. A previous aviation maintenance  background could help in your packet but the normal standards of recruiting will apply. What is your GT score (Above 100), PT score (250-270) at the very least, why you want to be a Night Stalker and what you can offer the Regiment. 160th maintainers whether they be line company or shops are some of the most technically proficient maintainers in the Army. First things first though, focus on the 25 meter target and decide if you want to serve in the military. Nothing else can be done until that point.

PM me if you have any other pressing questions.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Feb 12, 2014)

Draneol said:


> It sounds like I am looking for the path of least resistance.


 
Why do you want to join the military?  To be one of the cool kids?  Guaranteed employment?  I've only read a couple of your posts, but you don't come across as having the same mentality as many of the people on this site have.  What is your motivation/fascination with joining?


----------



## Draneol (Feb 12, 2014)

Our 2 year course covers general airframe and structure in core curriculum. 

AF guys would get 10 days for the specific stealth paint formulas for the B2. F-22 an so fourth. Reason we can get AIT waived. Is because MOS schools of 13 weeks of study. Vs 2 years of study. 

The Major explained to us it is because our educational background for the subjects is like making a weapons sergeant go thru 11B school after finishing the Q course. (His words not mine). We can choose to do AIT or not. We leave school with all FAA certs needed for structural repair and assembly of the composites and airframe as part of our core class curriculum.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

I haven't had a chance to read all replies yet. I will check when I get off work.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Feb 13, 2014)

So now you're almost rated as an aviation mechanic instead of an armor composition design major.

Intradasting.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> So now you're almost rated as an aviation mechanic instead of an armor composition design major.
> 
> Intradasting.


 
I was starting to wonder that myself once I read through more of his posts..


----------



## pardus (Feb 13, 2014)

We've ascertained in previous threads that drano is full of shit.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

Well damn. I took time out of my busy day :-" to try and help this guy out..


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

DESmole said:


> Just what exactly are you studying in school?
> 
> I have personally never heard of anyone being able to skip AIT and I would personally strongly advise against it just for the fact no matter what you study in school it more than likely will not completely prepare you for Army Aviation. The time in AIT is a great time for you to learn more about Army Aviation as a whole not just your job and get some good tips and pointers along the way from your cadre. Your prior background will more than likely help you greatly but I can imagine there would still be a great deal of stuff for you to learn.
> 
> ...



I am studying Advanced Composites, manufacturing, and repair. Part of the Core Curriculum is the A&P General exam for Structural Construction and Repair. We use the A&P General Textbook *ISBN-10:* 0884875598 as one of our 9 textbooks (front to back) for the core curriculum for a reason. Same reason why we have hanger outside of the classroom/shop with an F4, UH-1, and Cessna 172, is for practicing structural repair and maintenance/reproduction. 

Core Curriculum is FAA Endorsed, with side curriculum/projects we can choose to pursue additional study in, on top of our core training. It's why Boeing is involved with our program, as is Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Air Washington, ETC.



LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Why do you want to join the military?  To be one of the cool kids?  Guaranteed employment?  I've only read a couple of your posts, but you don't come across as having the same mentality as many of the people on this site have.  What is your motivation/fascination with joining?



I'm studying Advanced Composites, employment/getting employment in the field isn't difficult at all if you've gone to school for it, everything from boats, to ships, to hot tubs, bath tubs, cars, planes, helicopters, all are made of composites. 



Ranger Psych said:


> So now you're almost rated as an aviation mechanic instead of an armor composition design major.
> 
> Intradasting.



Aviation Mechanic, not in the grease monkey way. What you're saying is a loose term, Anything structural on an aircraft I can already repair, replace, manufacture, or assemble. Including wiring harnesses and fasteners to the grounding components. Which is where that part stops. I don't think an Aircraft Structural Mechanic is what you think it is.



DESmole said:


> I was starting to wonder that myself once I read through more of his posts..



Feel free.



pardus said:


> We've ascertained in previous threads that drano is full of shit.


I've said nothing that can't be verified, I will be leaving it at that..

Any questions, feel free to ask.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Why do you want to join the military?  To be one of the cool kids?  Guaranteed employment?  I've only read a couple of your posts, but you don't come across as having the same mentality as many of the people on this site have.  What is your motivation/fascination with joining?



Didn't mean to blow off your question in my above post.

I want to join the military because to me it's interesting, I like the aesthetics of military aircraft over civilian aircraft. I already have guaranteed employment almost anywhere I wish, once I gain more experience that "almost" will be replaced with "can." Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm kind of glad I don't have the mentality some on this site have, if I did I'd be quite bored of myself. Army Hangers at Ft Lewis also are what catches my interest, they always seem to be constantly working without much down time. 

I'd imagine with all the aircraft getting shot down around the world, a Structural Mechanic even may be quite busy. Although I am still in debate whether or not to go for 89D. Or to pursue the offer of 15G. For me it'd be a nice change of pace/scenery for a change. Still under debate on taking no AIT or with AIT. But that I guess I'll figure out alone. 

And to some other users on here:


> Assembles structural parts and components to meet requirements for preserving structural integrity and low observable qualities. Assesses damage to aircraft structural components and low observable coatings. Advises on structural and low observable repair, modification, and corrosion protection treatment with respect to original strength, weight, and contour to maintain structural and low observable integrity. Ensures aircraft component balance is maintained. Assembles repairs using special fasteners and adhesives. Checks repairs for serviceability according to specifications and technical publications. Manufactures jigs, fixtures, forms, and molds.
> 
> Paints aircraft, missiles, and support equipment (SE). Identifies, removes, and treats corrosion using mechanical and chemical procedures. Applies corrosion protective and low observable coatings. Applies aircraft paint schemes and markings.
> 
> ...



In a nutshell, that is core curriculum for Composites study.

Which is also the description of a structural mechanic job for the airforce.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforceenlistedjobs/a/afjob2a7x3.htm


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

Although the description doesn't mention much in the layout and manufacturing of honeycomb structures, resins, etc. etc. but that is also apart of the job not mentioned in much specifics.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

Or better description:
http://www.armyg1.army.mil/nco/DA Pam 600-25 (Approved) CMF 15.pdf

Scroll down to 15G, and you will get a summary of a composites training program, although incredibly vague with not much detail worth much at all. But it's the best way to describe in lemants terms what a Structural Mechanic is/does.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

> I'm studying Advanced Composites, employment/getting employment in the field isn't difficult at all if you've gone to school for it, everything from boats, to ships, to hot tubs, bath tubs, cars, planes, helicopters, all are made of composites.


 
That still doesn't answer LimaOscarSierraTango's question. "What is your motivation/fascination with joining?"

A&P Shmay & Pee. That alone and FAA this and that doesn't make you anything in Military eyes besides possibly having a solid base to advance your knowledge of military aircraft. And I think you are thinking a 15G is way more high speed than it really is. I understand someone may have offered you to skip AIT but I have NEVER heard of that and until I see it in writing I never will.



> Feel free.


 
Thank you but certainly don't need permission. As I find its suspect that you are talking about things of the utmost OPSEC then now you want to be a Golf and are referencing stealth technology again. None of that will be talked about here. And I'm sure everyone else will back me up on that. Wayyyy outside of your lane to be honest.

If anyone thinks I'm off base let me know and ill Charlie Mike but I'm pretty sure I'm tracking with how you guys get down around here..


----------



## xGenoSiide (Feb 13, 2014)

DESmole said:


> ...Thank you but certainly don't need permission. As I find its suspect that you are talking about things of the utmost OPSEC then now you want to be a Golf and are referencing stealth technology again. None of that will be talked about here. And I'm sure everyone else will back me up on that. Wayyyy outside of your lane to be honest.
> 
> If anyone thinks I'm off base let me know and ill Charlie Mike but I'm pretty sure I'm tracking with how you guys get down around here..


 
I would agree that you're tracking well.  Additionally, he has been told on more than one occasion to read more and post less.  I hope I'm wrong, because he seems relatively knowledgeable in the realm of composites, and that could help users on this site, but I don't see him sticking around long.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

DESmole said:


> That still doesn't answer LimaOscarSierraTango's question. "What is your motivation/fascination with joining?"
> 
> A&P Shmay & Pee. That alone and FAA this and that doesn't make you anything in Military eyes besides possibly having a solid base to advance your knowledge of military aircraft. And I think you are thinking a 15G is way more high speed than it really is. I understand someone may have offered you to skip AIT but I have NEVER heard of that and until I see it in writing I never will.
> 
> ...



I don't care to discuss stealth technology on here, never really did. I'm not sure what you mean by "High Speed", I expect a shop environment, with vacuums, furnace, a bunch of rolls of kevlar and other materials, machinery, a computer with CATIA installed, schematics for structural parts of aircraft with demensions, a few tool boxes, several air compressors with large amounts of clamps, tables, wrenches, pneumatic tool sets, etc. 

Not sure how anything I've spoken about is utmost OPSEC when it's discussed/worked on in civilian texts and civilian classes.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

xGenoSiide said:


> I would agree that you're tracking well.  Additionally, he has been told on more than one occasion to read more and post less.  I hope I'm wrong, because he seems relatively knowledgeable in the realm of composites, and that could help users on this site, but I don't see him sticking around long.



If I don't stick around long, it wont hurt my feelings, kinda depressed how closed minded people on here are, when things I've discussed are also across hundreds of different aviation and composite forums. You'd probably piss yourself if you know SAMS was used in classrooms in colleges for NSNs for aircraft parts imported into 3D software for manufacturing/replication/production purposes in a public classroom.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

SAMS-E*


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

> but I don't see him sticking around long.


 
I am sure I'm too green around here to have a vote but I'm on board.

All the stuff in the world you find on the internet isn't going to tell you what a 15G really does. Your job will be to maintain a bench stock and to fix whatever I break. Whether that be because it broke/ damaged due to a mission or I just got pissed off and broke/ damaged it. There will be no manufacturing parts and yada yada unless something needs a mod. I already told you nothing to do with Stealth/ Radar absorption will be discussed here for obvious reasons so don't bring it up. Its clearly obvious you don't have an idea what you really want to do due to your multiple posts about multiple different topics (EOD, ROTC, Army Boats, Navy Boats and now 160th). This is not somewhere for you to speak your mind on a certain topic. Come here already knowing exactly what you want to do and learn about that subject.



> kinda depressed how closed minded people on here are,


 
When this started we were all open to what you're wanting to know. The fact that you repeatedly post back with what I will now call some smart ass remark is unacceptable. The people here are a vast library of knowledge and if you cant figure out how to properly use it that's on you and too bad.

I don't know what SAMS-E is or any of your other super duper A&P acronyms and I don't really give a shit. You are not going to impress anyone here.

Once again Read more, Post less


----------



## xGenoSiide (Feb 13, 2014)

Draneol said:


> If I don't stick around long, it wont hurt my feelings, kinda depressed how closed minded people on here are, when things I've discussed are also across hundreds of different aviation and composite forums. You'd probably piss yourself if you know SAMS was used in classrooms in colleges for NSNs for aircraft parts imported into 3D software for manufacturing/replication/production purposes in a public classroom.


 

It's not about being close-minded. The simple fact is that the purpose of this page is Special Operations.  I'm not an admin so my opinion doesn't matter either way, but if an admin told me I needed to read more and post less I would do that. Especially when it becomes apparent that I'm starting to annoy a community I just joined, and have little knowledge about.  I think you have something to contribute, but you may be going about it the wrong way.  You don't want to alienate yourself from the very people you want to help and work with one day.  My .02


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

DESmole said:


> I am sure I'm too green around here to have a vote but I'm on board.
> 
> Look bud this is how this is going to go. I'm going to tell you some things then I'm going to go away because although we may be the same age the difference is I've been doing this since I was 18 and I'm pretty damn good at it to be quite honest with you.
> 
> ...



I didn't say anything about stealth crap in here? 

SAMS-E is the Army's maintenance system. It's where you can download/access aircraft schematics and parts. Not sure where you keep going off on stealth?


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

xGenoSiide said:


> It's not about being close-minded. The simple fact is that the purpose of this page is Special Operations.  I'm not an admin so my opinion doesn't matter either way, but if an admin told me I needed to read more and post less I would do that. Especially when it becomes apparent that I'm starting to annoy a community I just joined, and have little knowledge about.  I think you have something to contribute, but you may be going about it the wrong way.  You don't want to alienate yourself from the very people you want to help and work with one day.  My .02



Quite frankly, from what I'm seeing, with the sensitivity of members on this board, compared to the others, I'm shocked that everyone really is so sensitive. Asking a simple question, then given more questions, and pissed because they don't like the answers, why ask the questions in the first place? And then going off/pissed off on something I never said, let alone have discussed, but yet insist that it wont be talked about, which hasn't been talked about. 

And for people who don't know what SAMS-E is, it's not an A&P acronym. It's an Army Acronym. SAMS-1E is the software used by the US Army that holds all schematics, manuals, parts information, etc. for all ground and aerial vehicles. From tanks, to helicopters, to the composition and manufacturing of the panels and specifications to repair or fabricate parts and components. Community Colleges and University composite programs, machinist programs, and aviation maintenance programs have been using SAMS-E for almost 2 years. 

When a part is needed for an aircraft or ground vehicle, the part will have an NSN,  (NATO Stock Number) with that NSN the part and its specifications can be found, and information to produce it are found with it. From the rear gears of a UH-60, to the structural ties to a CH-47, or the armored plates for a Bradley, are in SAMS-E. That's what the program is, and what it's for. DOD allows colleges and school programs to manufacture and produce parts for them for academic purposes to cut costs for the parts themselves on the large scale. 

AFs Maintenance system and Navy's Maintenance system included are found in many colleges and universities. The fact some on here blow up about OPSEC on things that are really public knowledge (it's how China has replicated the AH-64D and modified it for their own military use). I'm just baffled by this place.


----------



## xGenoSiide (Feb 13, 2014)

This will probably be my last post in this topic, because I feel like I'm starting to beat a dead horse.  In my short time here, what I've noticed is that this community, like all of SOF, is close knit and the people here are reluctant to talk to people they don't know.  A member here refused to answer a question I had about TACP because I wasn't verified.  Fair enough, why should he take the time out of his day to talk to someone he doesn't know?  Who am I and what/why do I want to know about TACP?  A lot of what you type comes off, to me, as nothing more than an attempt to impress the people on this site, and it doesn't appear to be working.  You want to go to the 160th?  This is a great place to learn about it, and the amount of knowledge that can be gained from this place is astounding, but at the rate you're going my guess is people are going to be less likely to help.

*waits for admin*


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

Just stop where you are. The only way from here is down bud. Nobody has asked for your explanation for SAMS and that is way above what your lever would be as a 15G that has nothing to do with everyday operations of Conventional or SO RW units.



> From the rear gears of a UH-60


 
Never heard of that. Don't really care for you to elaborate either.

Your information is about as useless to me as Chris Farleys (R.I.P.) workout tips...


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

xGenoSiide said:


> This will probably be my last post in this topic, because I feel like I'm starting to beat a dead horse.  In my short time here, what I've noticed is that this community, like all of SOF, is close knit and the people here are reluctant to talk to people they don't know.  A member here refused to answer a question I had about TACP because I wasn't verified.  Fair enough, why should he take the time out of his day to talk to someone he doesn't know?  Who am I and what/why do I want to know about TACP?  A lot of what you type comes off, to me, as nothing more than an attempt to impress the people on this site, and it doesn't appear to be working.  You want to go to the 160th?  This is a great place to learn about it, and the amount of knowledge that can be gained from this place is astounding, but at the rate you're going my guess is people are going to be less likely to help.
> 
> *waits for admin*


I could care less to impress someone, never have. Simply explaining what SAMS-E is, isn't showing off, it's explaining to someone who is apparently an aircraft mechanic in the army what the computer system his branch of service uses is and does. Nothing more. If he doesn't use the computer system to determine what he needs to fix something, or to get a part number to a new part that he needs, I guess that's the kind of way the 160th works. 

From what I'm finding, this place isn't very good at all to learn about it. I'm pretty sure I know how this will end, and quite frankly, so be it. I've learned more about Army Aviation in general from my composites program than I have reading every page of the 160th and military support sections on here. Being a tight knit group doesn't really say anything when you're talking about a publicly accessible forum. In the discussion of topics that are publicly accessable. 

If someone in TACP would be that stringent on talking about TACP, unless he's talking about things he knows he shouldn't even be discussing, the smoke and mirrors are quite unnecessary. I haven't said anything here that is OPSEC, borderline OPSEC, or even in the realm of OPSEC, nor was my one question. Instead of an educated opinion, it's a pissing match. As if we're all back in high school. If a topic is truly that sensitive to speak about, that is public information to begin with, or that is general opinion, the fact it's really that "secret squirrell" I really don't think people like that should even be on a public forum to begin with if they can't trust themselves to speak about even unclassified, non-opsec information, they should not even be in a position to know of the information they aren't supposed to talk about to begin with. 

Never at any point have I asked about specific capabilities, unit sizes, unit movements, names, locations, or any of the other "OPSEC stuff". Just asked a very simple question, that never even entered the area at all of OPSEC.


----------



## Draneol (Feb 13, 2014)

DESmole said:


> Just stop where you are. The only way from here is down bud. Nobody has asked for your explanation for SAMS and that is way above what your lever would be as a 15G that has nothing to do with everyday operations of Conventional or SO RW units.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I explained what SAMS was, because you, apparently did not. Same with how you're unfamiliar with the Tail Rotor Drive Shaft or the rear gears inside of it. 

Have a good day.


----------



## CrewGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

Draneol said:


> I could care less to impress someone, never have. Simply explaining what SAMS-E is, isn't showing off, it's explaining to someone who is apparently an aircraft mechanic in the army what the computer system his branch of service uses is and does. Nothing more. If he doesn't use the computer system to determine what he needs to fix something, or to get a part number to a new part that he needs, I guess that's the kind of way the 160th works.
> 
> From what I'm finding, this place isn't very good at all to learn about it. I'm pretty sure I know how this will end, and quite frankly, so be it. I've learned more about Army Aviation in general from my composites program than I have reading every page of the 160th and military support sections on here. Being a tight knit group doesn't really say anything when you're talking about a publicly accessible forum. In the discussion of topics that are publicly accessable.
> 
> ...


 

I have gave you more than enough educated information. Army Aviation doesn't not use anything called SAMS-E. We use TAMMS which you guessed it is The Army Maintenance Management System. and more specifically we use ULLSA-E for aircraft which is Unit Level Logistics System Aviation Enhanced. You clearly know a lot about composites apparently well I know more about Army Aviation and the systems I use daily so lets leave it at that. Clearly YOU are not familiar with the T/R D/S or tail rotor drive shaft or else you would know it does not have gears inside of it. If you would like references I can tell you TM 1-1520-282-23&P That's the maint. manual for a Mike model Blackhawk. Also I am a 60 Mechanic and I have worked on every different model of Blackhawk helicopter the Army offers doing base level maint. to full phases and recovery missions while holding additional positions of Crew Chief and Flight Instructor.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Feb 13, 2014)

pardus said:


> We've ascertained in previous threads that drano is full of shit.


Oh crap... Can you imagine how I felt after reading all his posts then I had to stumble on yours?!


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 13, 2014)

Draneol-
Figure out what you want to do, then find the Branch of the Military that works.

You are not going from basic to Green Plt, you wouldn't stand a chance.

You may, or may not get Ft Campbell as a first assignment, good chance you'd go to the next unit leaving for ass-crackistan.

Should you go in, don't waive AIT.  The weeks in AIT/Tech School will allow you to mature (in a military sense) and make you a better Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine depending on the Branch you select (Hint, with 1 exception the AF has better assignment locations).

Step 1 is figure out the job YOU want, we can't do that.

Good luck.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Feb 13, 2014)

Draneol said:


> Didn't mean to blow off your question in my above post.
> 
> I want to join the military because to me it's interesting, I like the aesthetics of military aircraft over civilian aircraft. I already have guaranteed employment almost anywhere I wish, once I gain more experience that "almost" will be replaced with "can." Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm kind of glad I don't have the mentality some on this site have, if I did I'd be quite bored of myself. Army Hangers at Ft Lewis also are what catches my interest, they always seem to be constantly working without much down time.
> 
> I'd imagine with all the aircraft getting shot down around the world, a Structural Mechanic even may be quite busy. Although I am still in debate whether or not to go for 89D. Or to pursue the offer of 15G. For me it'd be a nice change of pace/scenery for a change. Still under debate on taking no AIT or with AIT. But that I guess I'll figure out alone.


 

Thank you for the follow-up response.


----------



## AWP (Feb 13, 2014)

Guess I'm not changing my avatar anytime soon....


----------



## policemedic (Feb 13, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Draneol-
> Figure out what you want to do, then find the Branch of the Military that works.
> 
> You are not going from basic to Green Plt, you wouldn't stand a chance.
> ...



If he actually has the sack to enlist, I'll bet you a beer he doesn't get through BCT.


----------



## AWP (Feb 13, 2014)

@Draneol this is my last attempt to mediate anything you've written and provide you with some constructive criticism.

You need to stop. You are all over the place and your posts are a mess, a mad woman's breakfast. In the brief time you've been a member you gave us the impression that you worked on armor for vehicles and wanted to be involved with that, then it was an interest in boats, now you're telling us you study aviation.
1. We don't know what your interests are because you seem to want to do everything 
2. You've given us the impression that you're studying armor or trucks or airplanes. You look like a spastic liar at this point. Maybe you know what you're doing but we sure as hell don't. Why does that matter? You're coming to us for advice and we can't read you. You're all over the place.

You have a bad, BAD habit of regurgitating information which isn't relevant. You babble. You answer indirectly. You post stuff from a textbook or wherever (we don't care) when asked a question and you're rarely to the point. Again, a mad woman's breakfast. Your attempts to make us understand have only alienated us. We don't care how smart you are and what you've learned in school.

I don't know what your deal is, but I do know your communication skills and mentality are bad. You're smart? Great. Can you interact with other people? I don't see it happening here. There's a saying: If you wake up and people are assholes, then maybe they're assholes. In the afternoon if they are still assholes then maybe it is you.

I guarantee you right now that if you acted like this around a 160th recruiter you wouldn't be in the unit. If you acted like this around NCO's, you'd be in for a world of hurt. Your time in uniform would be painful and you'd punch out after one enlistment. You'd probably blame the system or something, but right now it is 5PM/ 1700 and we're the assholes?

Do what you have to do, but check yourself before you wreck yourself.


----------



## x SF med (Feb 13, 2014)

Draneol said:


> Our 2 year course covers general airframe and structure in core curriculum.
> 
> AF guys would get 10 days for the specific stealth paint formulas for the B2. F-22 an so fourth. Reason we can get AIT waived. Is because MOS schools of 13 weeks of study. Vs 2 years of study.
> 
> The Major explained to us it is because our educational background for the subjects is like making a weapons sergeant go thru 11B school after finishing the Q course. (His words not mine). We can choose to do AIT or not. We leave school with all FAA certs needed for structural repair and assembly of the composites and airframe as part of our core class curriculum.



The major is a dumb ass, sorry...  even if an individual is not 11b before going to the Q course, he will get 11B training in a very early phase of training, no matter what 18 Series MOS he will eventually hold.


----------



## Polar Bear (Feb 13, 2014)

know your place, know your role.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 13, 2014)

Wow this thread is retarded.

Anyone joining the Army is required to complete BCT and AIT before they can be assigned to a career field (read become promotable) even if an 18 CMF or any other CMF is assinged to an 11 CMF para/line number, that individual must become MOSQ before they can receive promotion, awards or other favourable actions. Their is no OJT for 11 CMF, there are however, reclass courses that can range from 2-5 weeks dependent on service branch and MOS (11B,C,M,H, Z). In order to qualify for a reclass, you must have held an MOS and Reclass to a different CMF. Their are no short course for initial entry soldiers in the US Army. This of course is regarding enlistee personnel and not the officer corps or branch transfers.

Also, USMC Infantry MOS's are the only individuals who can transfer to the Army Infantry and are not required to reclass, as they are awarded the 11B MOS upon enlistment. However, if it has been a period of time (not sure how long) since you ETS'ed both Army and USMC Infantry are required to attend the 11B AIT again in order to go AD. A good buddy of mine had to go through 5 weeks at Sand Hill after going NG to AD, he was a 11B30 in the NG.


----------



## medicchick (Feb 13, 2014)

Sure, believe everything a recruiter tells you...


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 13, 2014)

medicchick said:


> Sure, believe everything a recruiter tells you...



Mine told me I'd go camping a lot and see the world.  He was kinda right, I guess.


----------



## amlove21 (Feb 14, 2014)

xGenoSiide said:


> This will probably be my last post in this topic, because I feel like I'm starting to beat a dead horse.  In my short time here, what I've noticed is that this community, like all of SOF, is close knit and the people here are reluctant to talk to people they don't know.  A member here refused to answer a question I had about TACP because I wasn't verified.  Fair enough, why should he take the time out of his day to talk to someone he doesn't know?  Who am I and what/why do I want to know about TACP?  A lot of what you type comes off, to me, as nothing more than an attempt to impress the people on this site, and it doesn't appear to be working.  You want to go to the 160th?  This is a great place to learn about it, and the amount of knowledge that can be gained from this place is astounding, but at the rate you're going my guess is people are going to be less likely to help.
> 
> *waits for admin*


You're good. Press on. 

And go have a beer at the Rose and Crown in Beck Row for me- loved every second of the 321st when I was there.


----------



## x SF med (Feb 15, 2014)

JAB said:


> Wow this thread is retarded.
> 
> .... Their are no short course for initial entry soldiers in the US Army. This of course is regarding enlistee personnel and not the officer corps or branch transfers.
> ...



Except for the Army Band.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 15, 2014)

x SF med said:


> Except for the Army Band.



Are those guys even soldiers? 

Yes that's a joke.

There is actually a NON-MOS designation in the Army for enlisted who have not completed AIT and been awarded an MOS. However, again they cannot hold a duty position of an MOS unless they become qualified, as in attend the AIT course. I don't have the regs in front of me, but one of the requirements for promotion is MOSQ. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the MOS skill level being tied to the level of rank (I.e. 11B20 Infantry Sgt,  Fire Team Leader).


----------



## goon175 (Feb 15, 2014)

There are circumstances for certain high skill MOS's that do not require the soldier to attend AIT, it's called ACASP - Army Civilian Acquired Skills Program. 

That being said, knowledge does not equate competence. If an Olympic Gold Medal shooter walks into my office asking to be a Sniper, I'll tell them the same thing I tell an 18 year old kid who's never picked up a gun. You can have a great foundation and all the potential in the world, if your a dick head it really doesn't matter as you'll never last - especially in a SOF unit.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 15, 2014)

I thought ACASP was an officer program, doctors, lawyers and chaplains type stuff?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 15, 2014)

Never mind I went and read up on it, I was thinking of anther program. Question it stated it allowed for advanced placement and promotions, is that without AIT or are they still required to attend ait?


----------



## goon175 (Feb 15, 2014)

JAB said:


> Never mind I went and read up on it, I was thinking of anther program. Question it stated it allowed for advanced placement and promotions, is that without AIT or are they still required to attend ait?



It's completely circumstantial. It depends on the MOS, current USAREC messages, and the certifications you hold. For example, if you hold a CDL I know that you qualified for ACASP in MOS 88M at one time, but I have no idea what the current messages say to determine what you would get for that certification. It changes all the time, and the MOS's they take under ACASP come in and out as the needs of the Army dictate. But to answer your question, some MOS's in ACASP have allowed the soldier to go straight from BCT to their unit, others have to attend a partial AIT. Again, "It depends."


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks goon,


----------



## policemedic (Feb 15, 2014)

I reclassed from 11B to 68W through ACASP.  I never had to go to the 68W schoolhouse.


----------



## pardus (Feb 16, 2014)

policemedic said:


> I reclassed from 11B to 68W through ACASP.  I never had to go to the 68W schoolhouse.



Really? When was that? Why did they allow that, because you had a civi EMT qualification?


----------



## AWP (Feb 16, 2014)

Since we're drifting....quite a few AIT's are/ were waiverable depending on sister service qualifications or civilian education for prior enlisted. For example, once upon a time the 74B (now 25B) MOS was granted to prior enlisted with an A.S. in Comp. Sci. I know we had some Navy Intel types cross over without going to an Army AIT. It CAN happen, but a few blocks have to be checked and they are highly unlikely to be checked by an initial entry soldier. A Master-rated, FAA-certificated parachute rigger? I know one who enlisted and he went to AIT to be a Rigger, BUT Army riggers (and probably the other services) can challenge for an FAA certificate based upon completing AIT (for a Senior rigger's ticket).

And I'm sure all of this varies according to funding, manning, etc.....especially in the reserve component.

I would not want to be an initial entry anything and skip AIT/ Tech School. That's just....stupid.


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 16, 2014)

There is something to be said about knowing how to do something, and then doing it the way it is done where you work. Those are often different things.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 16, 2014)

pardus said:


> Really? When was that? Why did they allow that, because you had a civi EMT qualification?



This was 2006/07. 

The Army's view was that an 11B + active Nationally Registered paramedic w/instructor quals + active SWAT medic = 68W.  My first drill was an introduction to Army medical paperwork, then a session with our BN PA to check my skills and knowledge.  After that, released to full practice as senior medic in a Stryker line company. 

I totally agree that without prior background in the Army, and the general military knowledge gained through the Infantry school I'd have been unable to function in that position.


----------



## pardus (Feb 17, 2014)

policemedic said:


> This was 2006/07.
> 
> The Army's view was that an 11B + active Nationally Registered paramedic w/instructor quals + active SWAT medic = 68W.  My first drill was an introduction to Army medical paperwork, then a session with our BN PA to check my skills and knowledge.  After that, released to full practice as senior medic in a Stryker line company.
> 
> I totally agree that without prior background in the Army, and the general military knowledge gained through the Infantry school I'd have been unable to function in that position.



Interesting, I wonder if thats still the case now.
I went through in 2009 and then a non prior service EMT-B/I/P is allowed to skip the EMT-B portion of AIT but must still attend the W side of the school.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 17, 2014)

pardus said:


> Interesting, I wonder if thats still the case now.
> I went through in 2009 and then a non prior service EMT-B/I/P is allowed to skip the EMT-B portion of AIT but must still attend the W side of the school.



Dunno.  

I think what saved me from Ft. Sam was the 11B MOS.  I didn't need to learn tactics, or how to function within an Infantry squad. That, and having a solid knowledge of TC3 from SWAT.  

I think attending BCT and the W portion at Ft. Sam is just about right for a paramedic coming off the street with no military experience.  I'd go so far as to say medics with prior service in a non-combat arms MOS should have to do the same thing. 

Tactical medicine is very different than traditional EMS, and training is required in order to develop that skill set.


----------



## medicchick (Feb 17, 2014)

policemedic said:


> I think attending BCT and the W portion at Ft. Sam is just about right for a paramedic coming off the street with no military experience.



Back in 2002/3 that would have been how my training would have gone (provided I passed their skill tests), fresh off school (run by a Reservist Corpsman) and a shiny new NREMT-P cert if I had enlisted in the Army like I planned instead of marrying into it.


----------

