# Negative Interaction with MARSOC



## Xo42 (Jul 20, 2015)

Not sure what this is supposed to be, maybe a discussion. 

I have recently had a little experience "training" with MARSOC. Never had any prior experience except with guys I know personally, and a few chats at damneck. What I was so surprised about was their behavior as a whole. Even on mission they just refuse to listen or play by the rules. To the point of pissing off safety personal. Through both the way they treated people, and how the mission was conducted. Also somehow doing a ammo dump during the exercise and entirely skipping the last event. Upsetting all else involved. That's just one day. I guess my question would be is this just trying to prove something. Or did we run into a select group of assholes?

At the end of the day. We all are on the same side. No hate for my brothers.

Thanks


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## Teufel (Jul 20, 2015)

Let me tamper this before it spirals out of control.  You did what training with a team? Company?  Sounds like a bad team to me.  Which happens in any organization.  PM me details please.


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## Teufel (Jul 20, 2015)

Here is a side note to all SOF personnel on this site.  Never forget that you are a walking ambassador for your service, SOF branch and nation when you are doing training and operations.  I have no doubt that @Xo42 had a bad experience with a MARSOC element of whatever size.  Sounds like an immature SOF team putting an excessive value on looking and acting cool with not enough emphasis on playing well with others.  Xo42 had a negative enough experience that he posted it here.  What do you think the other members of his organization are doing?  They probably won't do anything now but everyone from PFC to OIC will walk away from that event with a bad taste in their mouth for SOF & MARSOC that will eventually come back to the organization through a variety of means ranging from recruiting to policy.  

Once upon a time General Berger, the CG of I MEF, ran into two bearded MARSOC Marines in the chow hall.  He struck up a conversation with them, thinking that they were contractors, and was surprised to find out that they were Marines.  I believe one was a SSgt and the other a Sgt. At no point did they introduce themselves or show him any level of respect due a Commanding General of the senior warfighting organization in the Marine Corps.  Well until the SgtMaj noticed what was going on and interceded in that special way that senior SNCOs do.  This story was later relayed to all I MEF Sgts Maj and 1st Sgts at a SNCO call.  I'm sure the CG MARSOC, who by the way is junior to General Berger and probably wants to get promoted, was personally informed of this event by the General and several other General Officers who heard the story.  You know how that works.  Butt hurt is the only thing that flows through the Marine Corps faster than the Lance Corporal rumor mill.  Don't be the knucklehead that does something stupid and unnecessary that highlights your entire organization.


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## Centermass (Jul 20, 2015)

Same thing happened during my time. Seems a couple of long hairs, wearing steriles down at USARSO, were in line at the mess facility. Just so happened that the newly appointed IG for USARSO, was in the AO and decided to do a Q&A with the boys, based on their appearance and where they were at. Evidently, there was some pushback and negative fur began to fly based on rank vs the "Need to know" playbook.

The whole thing could have been handled better by both parties involved, but the bottomline mirrors what Teufel posted. The same happens service wide when it come to the top up Hershey Highway flowing down hill.

Use your head for something other than a hatrack and be all the better for it. You've got better things to do than clutter your career with unnecessary BS and your command with unwarranted oversight.

Regardless of far you've come, since being wet behind the ears, don't get too big for your britches. Being a humble QP and tact goes a long way.

Remember, Black Ops matter.


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## Derdang (Jul 21, 2015)

I don't like the tittle of your post.  You make it seem like every MARSOC personnel in whole is out of line with the tittle of your post.  With every organization you have people that are all about the cool guy appearance and attitude, but you also have people that work really hard and are extremely humble.  Even in the infantry you have the people that work really hard and the people that are arrogant or just super lazy.   It offends me because there are a lot of good people that work really hard in this organization.   I'm sorry you had to work with a team that wasn't humble and didn't hold themselves to a higher standard.  One thing I realized coming from infantry is how much people look up to you, and some people don't realize that.  You can really motivate and inspire people who look up to you.


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## AKkeith (Jul 21, 2015)

Its a shame you had a bad encounter. Years ago I did a month long training op with them, just me and 5 other guys embedded with their team. It was an amazing experience with world-class guys. I was treated with the utmost respect and I really admired their professionalism. Again I'm sorry you had a bad experience but the title "MARSOC has a large chip on their shoulder," seems like a large generalized statement with an incredibly limited control group.


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## Xo42 (Jul 21, 2015)

I apologize if the title caused offended people here. Titles are made to grab attention,  snd I believe I succeeded in that goal. My story as well has more explanation about the situation, that it doesn't apply to all. But to a individual group. Thus the title reflects my mindset during the situation. If this was a researched concept instead of a personal experience,  the title would have been different. Don't judge a book by its cover and all of that. 

Thanks


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 21, 2015)

I hate your response to the question about the title more than I hate the title - don't know you, don't know what happened, but suddenly I am willing to believe there might be another side of the story.

ETA -

I hate your response because it comes across as snarky, sarcastic, and condesending -


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## Totentanz (Jul 21, 2015)

Title changed.  Misrepresenting an entire force by painting with a broad brush to "attract attention" is not an acceptable solution, especially when intentionally insulting people for that purpose.

From my (limited) experience - the few MARSOC Marines I've run into have exemplified the phrase "quiet professional".  I know the term is more often used in reference to Special Forces, but almost to a man those Marines were the quiet, smart guy in the background of the joint classes that I've been in.  It was a very positive 180 from the loud, boisterous stereotype the USMC usually has.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 21, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I hate your response to the question about the title more than I hate the title - don't know you, don't know what happened, but suddenly I am willing to believe there might be another side of the story.
> 
> ETA -
> 
> I hate your response because it comes across as snarky, sarcastic, and condesending -



And yours comes across how?


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 21, 2015)

To anwer your question @TLDR20, I think my post  comes across as frusterated by the disrespect the OP showed those who questioned the title of his thread - I did not call names, nor insult, and I gave the edit to provide the "why" - 

I'll back out of this thread.  But I stand by what I said -


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## Grunt (Jul 21, 2015)

Unfortunately, there will always be members of groups and units that act in ways that they probably shouldn't. As long as humans are involved, we will act in ways that aren't deemed appropriate by some and to others...it really doesn't matter. 

However, it's our job to be able to discern the difference and act accordingly. To this day, I still meet people in various units that act like clowns when I personally would prefer that they didn't...but, my aggravation and disapproval usually  only concerns the clown and not the unit in its entirety.


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## Xo42 (Jul 22, 2015)

Title change is fine with me. I don't want to piss off anyone. I have the upmost respect for all members of our military. I just had a story to share. It's not supposed to change anyone's option of any specific unit. But a reflection on how a small groups actions can influence how people think about them and who they represent. A instance I think everyone here knows. Its just an encounter I had. 

Thanks


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## DA SWO (Jul 22, 2015)

Long on whine short on details.

Frankly, I LOL'd at this:



Xo42 said:


> Even on mission they just refuse to listen or play by the rules. *To the point of pissing off safety personal.*
> 
> Thanks



Safety personnel tend to be afraid of their shadows.


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## Teufel (Jul 22, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Long on whine short on details.
> 
> Frankly, I LOL'd at this:
> 
> ...



It's not too bad in the Marine Corps.  I don't know how the Air Force runs training but our safety personnel normally is a SNCO and officer from the training unit.  Talisman Saber is probably different because it's multi-service and multi-national but keep in mind that the safety structure doubles as exercise control and is not a group you want to sky-line yourself to.


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## The Hate Ape (Jul 22, 2015)

Xo42 said:


> Not sure what this is supposed to be, maybe a discussion.
> 
> I have recently had a little experience "training" with MARSOC. Never had any prior experience except with guys I know personally, and a few chats at damneck. What I was so surprised about was their behavior as a whole. Even on mission they just refuse to listen or play by the rules. To the point of pissing off safety personal. *Through both the way they treated people, and how the mission was conducted*. *Also somehow doing a ammo dump during the exercise and entirely skipping the last event*. Upsetting all else involved. That's just one day. I guess my question would be is this just trying to prove something. Or did we run into a select group of assholes?
> 
> ...


 
I am skeptical.

Firstly a team ditching a training event intentionally without very good reason sounds crazy considering our pretty messed up budget alone; most team daddys want as much training as possible for their guys - implementing TTPs, strengths, weaknesses, evaluations  - huge deal. To toss that opportunity would be absurd. I have to assume off of this information that it was a team only event.

Further, I suspect that there was a breakdown with communication in multiple levels for anyone to do an ammo dump prematurely, unless the team at the senior level saw zero value in training with you any further (no offense).

Your feelings in mind, did you or the appropriate personnel express this directly to the team leadership? Giving funny faces or odd comments randomly doesn't express to the team that they are treating you guys like "assholes."

R/

HA



Teufel said:


> It's not too bad in the Marine Corps.  I don't know how the Air Force runs training but our safety personnel normally is a SNCO and officer from the training unit.  Talisman Saber is probably different because it's multi-service and multi-national but keep in mind that the safety structure doubles as exercise control and is not a group you want to sky-line yourself to.


 
Yes sir but the opposite happens more and more frequently. We've been using a few joint facilities lately that have mandated we use their safety officials - a few eyebrows were raised at the excessive safety standards.


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## Hillclimb (Jul 22, 2015)

The Hate Ape said:


> Your feelings in mind, did you or the appropriate personnel express this directly to the team leadership? Giving funny faces or odd comments randomly doesn't express to the team that they are treating you guys like "assholes."


 
Kind of my thoughts. The problem doesn't get fixed if you don't address it. Those guys don't get anything, or know what to fix about a internet thread they probably don't even know about.

Bring it up in debrief, write an AAR, contact leadership, or even just go up to the guy and say politely/with tact.. "hey, this is what you guys are fucked up on. Why are you doing that, or can you fix it?" We've all got thick enough skin; you'd probably get a.. "Shit I had no idea, yeah man we can work on that." or if he's really an asshole, then you'd have verified your assumptions.

Or maybe you did reach out to that team: I don't know. Just some things to consider for next time.


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## Teufel (Jul 22, 2015)

The Hate Ape said:


> Yes sir but the opposite happens more and more frequently. We've been using a few joint facilities lately that have mandated we use their safety officials - a few eyebrows were raised at the excessive safety standards.



Like I said.  In the Marine Corps.  The Joint community does things differently.  

I could see the team wanting to do X and Y and Talisman Saber wanting them to do Z over and over again.  This could cause friction.


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