# Reintroduction of MWD into NZ Combat Tracking Teams



## Mac_NZ (Oct 24, 2013)

Four of the New Zealand Army's latest recruits are of the four-legged variety, and will be ready for action in no time.

Lance Corporal Kane Ritchie, 24, and three fellow military members will graduate today from the first phase of the inaugural military working dog training course, which is run in conjunction with the New Zealand police dog training section.

The group and their dogs have done police dog training, and will now complete specialised training on using canine trackers as part of the Combat Tracking Team.

Lance Corporal Ritchie said he had always been a dog person, so was immediately attracted to the canine team.

"I thought it would be a brilliant opportunity, moving into more specialised military training. I'm stoked with [his assigned dog] Bolt. We're really starting to build a good relationship."

Military dogs work in various camps and bases throughout the country, and are also deployed overseas.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9324821/Four-legged-recruits-for-the-army

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We used MWD to good effect in Malaysia and have been screaming to get them back for some time.  My former Pl Sgt was one of the guys who worked his butt off to get this going and I'm stoked to see his efforts weren't in vain.  Props to a couple of guys I played Xbox with who worked at Lackland AFB and were extremely helpful with information regarding the ins and outs of deploying dogs overseas and bringing them home.


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## pardus (Oct 24, 2013)

Hmm, interesting. As is the choice of the breed of dog. They were not shown to be suitable in Singapore/Vietnam in the 60's.

I think they can be a valuable asset but they have limitations.


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## 21C (Oct 25, 2013)

Interesting but can see why they chose the breed of dog if they were working closely with NZ police agencies in getting the program off the ground.

Wonder how long it will be before they shift to something like the Malinois.


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## pardus (Oct 25, 2013)

21C said:


> Interesting but can see why they chose the breed of dog if they were working closely with NZ police agencies in getting the program off the ground.
> 
> Wonder how long it will be before they shift to something like the Malinois.



Why, have either breed proven themselves in tracking abilities?


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## Mac_NZ (Oct 25, 2013)

T, there isn't a MWD school here to get dogs of any breed from, you know the inherent difficulties that would come from sending our guys overseas to train or importing dogs.

The Trentham dog school uses specific bloodlines (from GSDs) and the dogs we worked with from a unit of the Police tracked well enough for us, they weren't noisy either as we were scared they would be.  As with everything it's a compromise but at least they did something for once as opposed to a whole lot of paperwork and nothing on the ground.  Also look at the school they went to, one could assume that tracking is not all they can do but is a lot more palatable for the public than saying we brought 60kg of fur and aggression and we taught it to hunt and bite people, now we're going to take it to country X and let it bite them.


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## pardus (Oct 25, 2013)

Hmmm...

There's a whole lot here I am saying Hmm about.

I'm not saying it's wrong. I don't know the details of your dealings with them. I do know the history of dogs in tracking and this breed, and dogs with the extra chomping skills when it comes to tracking. 
Do the Poms still train tracking Labs? they were the best, back in the day at least.

Dogs have advantages but also a lot of limitations a human does not.


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## Mac_NZ (Oct 25, 2013)

Well Labs are also a hell of a lot easier to train because they are so food driven the fat bastards 

Guys in a certain hill in the UK are using Mals.  I only know of Labs and pointers being used for explosive detection now.  There is I believe a move to establish Mals in NZ for the Military.


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## pardus (Oct 25, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> Well Labs are also a hell of a lot easier to train because they are so food driven the fat bastards
> 
> Guys in a certain hill in the UK are using Mals.  I only know of Labs and pointers being used for explosive detection now.  There is I believe a move to establish Mals in NZ for the Military.



OK. Mals certainly seem superior to Nazi hounds with regards to general Mil use. I have no idea about Mals with tracking. 
Does anyone back home retain knowledge of the tracking training given by the NZSAS to the US Army combat tracker teams in Vietnam and the Pommy Labs used by the same?


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## Mac_NZ (Oct 25, 2013)

Guys will still be around with the association and could be brought in.


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## SpitfireV (Oct 25, 2013)

We're using labs but we're also not sticking them onto people (unfortunately). For a long time we used strays from the shelter too. From what I've heard from the handlers the breed isn't so important (for our kind of work, obviously you wouldn't train a lab or a Beagle for man work!) but rather the drive. It's actually really interesting to sit down and talk to them about the dogs, some of stuff that happens is amazing.


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## pardus (Oct 25, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> We're using labs but we're also not sticking them onto people (unfortunately). For a long time we used strays from the shelter too. From what I've heard from the handlers the breed isn't so important (for our kind of work, obviously you wouldn't train a lab or a Beagle for man work!) but rather the drive. It's actually really interesting to sit down and talk to them about the dogs, some of stuff that happens is amazing.



That doesnt gel at all...


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## SpitfireV (Oct 25, 2013)

pardus said:


> That doesnt gel at all...



Go on?


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## pardus (Oct 25, 2013)

Well, that you're using a specific dogs but breed doesn't matter. Also it's been shown for quite some time now that certain breeds have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to physical/mental ability. Theres a reason certain breeds are picked for certain jobs. Temperament and aptitude are just as important in dogs as they are in humans when it comes to specific jobs.


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## 21C (Oct 26, 2013)

I was under the impressions that Mals had better overall trainability and were quite receptive to scent specific training more so than GSDs.


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## dirtmover (Nov 2, 2013)

When it comes to doing the job it comes down to a couple of things; drive, bidibilty(listening to the handler), and health.  My own experiences have shown that the GSD tends to be more bidible while in drive while the mals and dutchies that I have worked with will give you the finger when they are in drive and want them to stop.  Now where the dutchies and mals exceed the GSD is in the health department.  Why would you spend all this time and money on a dog that you can only get a couple years out of when you can double the time with a dutchie or a mal.   There are some outliers with in the GSD breed but being healthy dog as if late is not what they are known for.


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