# AR Advice please



## billb (Mar 7, 2011)

I am interested in   http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-s/123.htm    medium.  I know there is also a charging handle called "gas buster" is that more of a concern? My AR would be used in a defense manner.


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## HOLLiS (Mar 7, 2011)

What is wrong with the one that you have?


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## policemedic (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's another question.  Please explain the method you use to pull the charging handle back i.e. how do you hold the charging handle?  Believe it or not, this affects whether a BCM product will be of any value to you.


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## policemedic (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's another question.  Please explain the method you use to pull the charging handle back i.e. how do you hold the charging handle?  Believe it or not, this affects whether a BCM product will be of any value to you.


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

I use the MOD 3 large latch from BCM (Gunfighter) I'll never use a standard charger again, if I can avoid it. :cool:

One handed charging of the weapon is much easier with the Gunfighter. I use the support hand and my index finger while still in the firing position. Much harder to do with a standard charger. You really have to use one to "get it"

The "Gas Buster" from PRI was developed for SBR's (short barreled rifles) to release gas that is traveling rearward out to the right side of the weapon, something standard charges do not have. But, the Gas Buster is not a large latch type charger. This was developed for SBR's where high gas presssure may have been causing a timing problem as well as gas blow back. I don't think you need it if your going to use a 16" barrel, especially with a mid length gas system or rifle length gas system. With a Carbine length gas system, you can run an "H" buffer or standard buffer. In most cases.

It's not like your spending hundreds of dollars for the charger. Buy one, throw it in your AR and it should immediately become apparent that the Gunfighter is a no brainer.

No J.A.B, it does not hang up on kit/Molle. 

I'm sold on the MOD 3 Gunfighter charger.

YMMV


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## fox1371 (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm not sure what the name of the charging handle that I use is, however it has a large "catch" for my hand.  I may be weird, however I often use the side of my palm of my weak hand to rack the charging handle back.  Not sure if this helps too much.  It doesn't look much like the one you're looking at though.  I'll do some searching and see if I can't find it.


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## fox1371 (Mar 8, 2011)




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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

fox1371 said:


> I'm not sure what the name of the charging handle that I use is, however it has a large "catch" for my hand. I may be weird, however I often use the side of my palm of my weak hand to rack the charging handle back. Not sure if this helps too much. It doesn't look much like the one you're looking at though. I'll do some searching and see if I can't find it.



Like this ??


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

fox1371 said:


>



Those break. The Gunfighter was designed differently, better for just such that reason.

The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle and extended latches feature internal redesigns to direct the force off of the roll pin and into the body of the charging handle during support hand only manipulations.  This new design has a built in backstop engineered into the extended latch and into the charging handle.  As the latch is opened up, its’ travel is limited by these flat surface backstops.  With this travel limiting feature, the stress is taken off the roll pin, and is now redirected into the entire body of the charging handle.


The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle offers two significant advantages.  


1.  Since the tiny roll pin is no longer the weak point - it is a much stronger system and tactical latch will stay intact even under repeated support side only manipulation.


2.  With the force kept inside the body of the handle, when the handle is pulled directly to the rear, it moves directly to the rear and does not angle off to the outboard side.  A much smoother operation.








On the cutaway computer drawings you can see the inside machining of the latch.  It shows the 3 inside contact surfaces.  (The 2 semi circular cuts are to aid in the removal of dirt and debris that can get inside the handle.)








On the bottom view you can see the outside of the latch itself.  It is actually as thick as the handle.  This provides 2 additional contact surfaces to insure the force is maintained inside the handle and offers the operator more contact surface to manipulate the handle.


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## fox1371 (Mar 8, 2011)

Exactly like that :)

I've never had one break on me however I can see your point of why they would.  Your images aren't showing up though.  I have officially learned something new today.  Points to you.  Thanks for the info.


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

fox1371 said:


> Exactly like that :)
> 
> I've never had one break on me however I can see your point of why they would. Your images aren't showing up though. I have officially learned something new today. Points to you. Thanks for the info.



Here is another photo of how I use the Gunfighter charger.


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## policemedic (Mar 8, 2011)

These pics illustrate why I was asking how you manipulate the gun.  The BCM is designed to facilitate grabbing the latch between thumb and forefinger, instead of the old 'slingshot' method.  If you use your index and social finger to pull back on both sides of the charging handle (and you shouldn't), the BCM handle isn't going to help you.  It won't hurt, either.


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

policemedic said:


> These pics illustrate why I was asking how you manipulate the gun. The BCM is designed to facilitate grabbing the latch between thumb and forefinger, instead of the old 'slingshot' method. If you use your index and social finger to pull back on both sides of the charging handle (and you shouldn't), the BCM handle isn't going to help you. It won't hurt, either.



If you have a rear flip up in the down position I have found that having too use the first two digits (index and social finger) requires the movement of the hand up over top of the upper reciever and your support hand wrist is canted. The iron gets in the way, sometimes and the "old" method tends to wear on the wrist.

This brings to the table a much easier and less engaging and less fatigue during repeated charging of the weapon. It forces you to use the bi-cep more than the forearm and wrist.

HTH.


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## DA SWO (Mar 8, 2011)

I put one on my wife's rifle, she loves it.  She can grab it with and  pull the charging handle back quickly.  I am putting one on my next build (just trying to pick a lower).


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## HOLLiS (Mar 8, 2011)

Interesting opinions.   I feel so old and slow speed, that I can do rapid fire with my flint lock musket.  Europeans have been placing the charging handle on the left side of the rifle.  The Shooter can maintain control of the firing mechanism and still charge the rifle.   I was potty trained to hold the rifle with the left hand and with the first two finger on the right hand straddle the charging handle and pull straight back.   Interesting to see the metamorphosis.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 8, 2011)

I personally like the mil-spec charging handle and I have no problems using it with just my left hand...


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm pretty low speed.  Anything that aids in the manipulation of the weapon, for me, is a plus to overall shooter performance.

If this was a $500+ item, I would carefully and critically examine why I "want" it or "need" it.  I can charge the weapon with a Mil Spec charger using my support hand only, but the Gunfighter just makes it easier and insures, under stress, that I'm more consistent when remediating stoppages and charging the weapon.

For $43 ?  Why would anybody be so critical of such a piece of hardware ?? 

I like ribbed condoms too.


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## HOLLiS (Mar 8, 2011)

Today, $43 won't get you laid,
won't get you drunk,
won't pay for a 5 start dinner
won't pay for TV for the month

My biggest problem, is what do you do with the old parts?   I have shop full of "extras".


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## Polar Bear (Mar 8, 2011)

I have it on my AR and love it


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## The91Bravo (Mar 8, 2011)

8'Duece said:


> I'm pretty low speed.  Anything that aids in the manipulation of the weapon, for me, is a plus to overall shooter performance.
> 
> If this was a $500+ item, I would carefully and critically examine why I "want" it or "need" it.  I can charge the weapon with a Mil Spec charger using my support hand only, but the Gunfighter just makes it easier and insures, under stress, that I'm more consistent when remediating stoppages and charging the weapon.
> 
> ...


You got any pictures of a Charging handle vs. a Dremel??

Jus Sayin...


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## HOLLiS (Mar 8, 2011)

The91Bravo said:


> You got any pictures of a Charging handle vs. a Dremel??
> 
> Jus Sayin... :)



He likes to use the ribbed condoms on his reciprocating saw, not his Dremel.


Frank should chime in anytime now.


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

The91Bravo said:


> You got any pictures of a Charging handle vs. a Dremel??
> 
> Jus Sayin... :)



I think I may be able to satisfy that request.


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## 8'Duece (Mar 8, 2011)

HOLLiS said:


> He likes to use the ribbed condoms on his reciprocating saw, not his Dremel.
> 
> Frank should chime in anytime now.



If we still had a point system that would be "cross thead" points. But, how'd ya know ??


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## AWP (Mar 8, 2011)

This thread devolved in a reasonable order.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 9, 2011)

8'Duece said:


> For $43 ? Why would anybody be so critical of such a piece of hardware ??



I did not think anyone was being critical of the gunfighter charging handle. My personal stand on it is that I am not going to waste $43 on something that I don’t need. YMMV, but I prefer to spend extra money ammo.


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## DA SWO (Mar 9, 2011)

8'Duece said:


> I'm pretty low speed. Anything that aids in the manipulation of the weapon, for me, is a plus to overall shooter performance.
> 
> If this was a $500+ item, I would carefully and critically examine why I "want" it or "need" it. I can charge the weapon with a Mil Spec charger using my support hand only, but the Gunfighter just makes it easier and insures, under stress, that I'm more consistent when remediating stoppages and charging the weapon.
> 
> ...



Once again, another SS member comes out of the closet.  GLAD will be glad.



HOLLiS said:


> Today, $43 won't get you laid,
> won't get you drunk,
> won't pay for a 5 start dinner
> won't pay for TV for the month
> ...



Put them in a big box and send them to me, I can always use any working parts.


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## billb (Mar 9, 2011)

policemedic said:


> Here's another question.  Please explain the method you use to pull the charging handle back i.e. how do you hold the charging handle?  Believe it or not, this affects whether a BCM product will be of any value to you.



I put a scope on and charging handle is harder to engage.


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## HOLLiS (Mar 9, 2011)

SOWT said:


> Put them in a big box and send them to me, I can always use any working parts.



I would have to freight them to you.  I have suomi parts, Beretta 38 parts, Bren parts, Sten parts, MG 42 parts, 1919 parts, Uzi parts, barrels, little parts, etc.   I can post a photo of my shop and it will become clear.   I have several ARs, I tend to leave things as is.

OH yeah, I have lots of spring stock and other goodies.  I am slowly selling/giving them to another has been Marine turned gunsmith that lives down the road from me.


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