# U.S. Special Forces ordered to shave off beards



## Ravage (Aug 9, 2010)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...cision_hanging_on_a_whisker.html#ixzz0w4oys91

KABUL, Afghanistan - U.S. Special Operations Forces have had countless close shaves this month - not just with the enemy, but with razors and foamy cream.

After almost a decade of growing long beards as a show of deep respect for Afghanistan's male-dominated, bearded tribal culture, many of these elite warriors have been ordered by top brass to shave their faces clean.

Some veteran special ops troops fear they face a harder time getting taken seriously by local leaders they depend upon for intel about their bearded enemy, the Taliban.

"Now we look no different than the Brits or Russians before us," a dewhiskered Green Beret team leader with five Afghanistan tours told the Daily News, referring to two countries whose past wars here ended badly. "Growing a beard dramatically helps us."

Even former Afghan war commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal "should have grown a beard" to help win over the tribes, argued the Green Beret, who cannot be identified because of his mission.

Long beards, khaki ball caps and Oakley wraparound sunglasses have long been the iconic image of U.S. secret warriors here.

But commanders now want "professional-looking" soldiers in the field - at least those who deal mostly with Afghan troops, not civilians. They note that the ball caps are often adorned with macabre skulls, sending the wrong message to a populace weary of war and death.

Special ops troops living in or near villages can keep their beards, but are encouraged to adopt the traditional Afghan pokol cap instead of a billed cap.


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## frontman86 (Aug 9, 2010)

Gay, gay, gay...
At this point why not just fold SF into reg army? From the articles I read about SF in the news and on forums, just seems like the military's leadership wants to make them CONVENTIONAL warriors eventhough they're fighting an UNCONVENTIONAL enemy... Retarded...


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## BLACKMags (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't understand what is the big push for big army lifestyle in special operations units...enough to drive a man into ETS or retirement.


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## Purple (Aug 9, 2010)

FWIW - like a hog staring at a wristwatch - those comments show an obvious lack of understanding in regards to the article's topics (there are more than one and some have validity while some do not) and poor SA.

Purple's $.02


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 9, 2010)

LMAO... Glad to see "our leadership" is still focused on winning the war. :doh:


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## dknob (Aug 9, 2010)

Ehh idk.. the article is right about some of the SF soldiers. Not all need beards. And Ive seen a lot of raggedy ass guys walking around with punisher hats and infidel shit on with wifebeaters. 

Theres a difference between walking around looking like a straight up bum and a professional who happens to have a beard. 

I agree with this article. The guys training the Afghan troops cant be looking like straight up bums. It's not like they are making the guys on the ground working with the locals shave the beards.

I hate to post a picture of the fallen to settle a point, but there is a different between the appearance of MSG Horrigan http://www.honorheroes.org/images/Horrigan_Best_sm.jpg , and the appearance of the SF soldiers that the article and higher brass is referring to..

SF guys overseas are pushing this shit. Just like Rangers pushed the hair limits after the high and tight went away. Everything in moderation. If i was an Afghani soldier being discipline by my appearance by a dude that looked like ZZ Top, i would be fucking pissed.


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## 0699 (Aug 9, 2010)

dknob said:


> Ehh idk.. the article is right about some of the SF soldiers. Not all need beards. And Ive seen a lot of raggedy ass guys walking around with punisher hats and infidel shit on with wifebeaters.
> 
> Theres a difference between walking around looking like a straight up bum and a professional who happens to have a beard.
> 
> ...


 
And on this same note, a lot of the guys trying to "blend in" are walking around with ball caps and full sleeve tattoos, not things you see the locals wearing...

IME, many times people/units bring things like this on themselves.  People want to push the envelope too far, then are pissed with the consequences.


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## MS_girl (Aug 9, 2010)

:doh: sigh sounds like the best idea EVER :uhh:


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## car (Aug 9, 2010)

0699 said:


> And on this same note, a lot of the guys trying to "blend in" are walking around with ball caps and full sleeve tattoos, not things you see the locals wearing...
> 
> IME, many times people/units bring things like this on themselves.  People want to push the envelope too far, then are pissed with the consequences.


 
Not surprisingly, I totally agree with you......except, now, you've gotta help me get my head out of the jar.


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## DA SWO (Aug 9, 2010)

0699 said:


> And on this same note, a lot of the guys trying to* "blend in" are walking around with ball caps and full sleeve tattoos, not things you see the locals wearing...*
> IME, many times people/units bring things like this on themselves.  People want to push the envelope too far, then are pissed with the consequences.



Agree.  Let the guys training the ANA have trimmed beards if they need to have a beard.  The guys in the boonies can still grow full beards, but they need to be a little more selective in headgear.  I wouldn't outlaw all ball caps, but would rein-in some of the logos/patches etc.

FWIW- Their was a photo of a Marine with a skull patch on his helmut (we had a lively discussion)-that's the sort of ballcap I would limit, especially if you are working with the ANA/ANP or other locals.


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## Headshot (Aug 9, 2010)

At least we're not making them cut their entire fucking head off.


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## 8'Duece (Aug 9, 2010)

> Long beards, khaki ball caps and Oakley wraparound sunglasses have long been the iconic image of U.S. secret warriors here.



You can send me your Oakley's and your caps.


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## Seeker (Aug 9, 2010)

Maybe the rationale is that instead of visibly subscribing to the Taliban imposed social norm of the beard, SF should set the example and lead Afghans away from submission to Taliban social code? I'm doing a little reading and get the idea that the beard is not a traditional Afghan (per se, given so many ethnic groups) social norm, but rather became one when the Taliban strictly enforced it as part of their religious ideology and social-political agenda. We don't want to support that, and want to demonstrate "there's a new sheriff in town" -- so adios to the beards? The face of the new "good guys" everywhere, and especially in the ANA, looks like THIS?


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## shortbrownguy (Aug 9, 2010)

Seeker said:


> Maybe the rationale is that instead of visibly subscribing to the Taliban imposed social norm of the beard, SF should set the example and lead Afghans away from submission to Taliban social code? I'm doing a little reading and get the idea that the beard is not a traditional Afghan (per se, given so many ethnic groups) social norm, but rather became one when the Taliban strictly enforced it as part of their religious ideology and social-political agenda. We don't want to support that, and want to demonstrate "there's a new sheriff in town" -- so adios to the beards? The face of the new "good guys" everywhere, and especially in the ANA, looks like THIS?


 
I'd say the rationale is to stop the fobbits that are running around BAF and KAF with full beards for no reason. Unfortunately the majority of the people you see rocking the ZZ top look have no reason to have a beard in the first place. Lets not read too much into this. People who require relaxed grooming standards will still have them.
PS- I still have a beard


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## 0699 (Aug 9, 2010)

car said:


> Not surprisingly, *I totally agree with you*......except, now, you've gotta help me get my head out of the jar.


 
One of the seven signs.  We need to start treading lightly...


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## 0699 (Aug 9, 2010)

SOWT said:


> Agree.  Let the guys training the ANA have trimmed beards if they need to have a beard.  The guys in the boonies can still grow full beards, but they need to be a little more selective in headgear.  *I wouldn't outlaw all ball caps*, but would rein-in some of the logos/patches etc.
> 
> FWIW- Their was a photo of a Marine with a skull patch on his helmut (we had a lively discussion)-that's the sort of ballcap I would limit, especially if you are working with the ANA/ANP or other locals.


 
Maybe this is the Marine in me, but why not?  What reason could wearing ball caps in CENTCOM serve?  Improving morale?

I have NO problems changing/modifying uniform regulations to suit the situation (not that it's ever been my call... ), but it seems like it should only be done for a reason that can be explained and understood pretty easily.

Easily understood: "We will be training/mentoring/living with Iraqi soldiers.  Their culture places an importance on facial hair, so we will be allowing "full-size" mustaches in theater."

Not easily understood: "We're wearing ball caps and beards to "blend in" even though we never leave the FOB unless we're in full kit and don't stand a chance of hell of "blending in" while wearing our ball caps and multicam."

Please explain to me where I'm wrong.  And I'm not being a smart ass, I'd really like to know.


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## car (Aug 9, 2010)

0699 said:


> Maybe this is the Marine in me, but why not?  What reason could wearing ball caps in CENTCOM serve?  Improving morale?
> 
> I have NO problems changing/modifying uniform regulations to suit the situation (not that it's ever been my call... ), but it seems like it should only be done for a reason that can be explained and understood pretty easily.
> 
> ...


 
See.....we keep agreeing -- I know, a couple of recently retired hard dicks.......but funny, and scary at the same time. ;)


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## TLDR20 (Aug 9, 2010)

Like SBG said, the guys who need em will still have them. Let's not get into a hissy bout this yet. Guys haven't been wearing beards in Iraq for a long time. Did it change the way they fought?


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## Marauder06 (Aug 9, 2010)

This is what happens when people do things "because I can" instead of "because I need to for my job."  Too many people interested in making a fashion statement and trying to look cool screwing it up for the people who really need it.


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## Ravage (Aug 9, 2010)

Marauder06 said:


> Too many people interested in making a fashion statement and trying to look cool screwing it up for the people who really need it.


 
You said it! There was a moment when our top militarry commanders in Derka Derka Stan were hauling stuff that they normally would not need to, just because it 'looked cool', and wanted to look more like the US side - lots of gucci stuff from holsters to multicam uniforms and beards. At one point jurnos started calling every one a 'commando', Then again, our military has always been slightly different.

Then again, could this be some kind of scam as to say: "our regular guys paint their guns (like SOF), wear custom stuff (like SOF), wear multicam (like SOF) and SOF guys guys don't wear beards so our regulars look like SOF more than ever - hence we're all SOF!". But maybe I'm just paranoid.


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## 0699 (Aug 9, 2010)

cback0220 said:


> Like SBG said, the guys who need em will still have them. *Let's not get into a hissy bout this yet*. Guys haven't been wearing beards in Iraq for a long time. Did it change the way they fought?


 
Damn.  We're just talking 'bout it...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 9, 2010)

Fuck it, I think from this point foward every service member should have to wear their dress uniform in Astan.......It just more professional.

Most of the dudes I saw wearing all that stupid skull and bones bullshit were contractors and dumb privates, of course that was Iraq. As for the beards, facial hair is a big deal in the muslim community. The muslim community is not only out side of the wire but also inside the wire. Also how fast can your grow a beard, to take on a mission outside the wire. Just b/c your fucking off in the rear today dosen't mean you will be there forever... As for ballcaps, the boonie works better anyway... If it was up to me I would wear my straw stetson around the FOB and a boonie/brain bucket when out and about. 

Some one needs to go punch him self a few hundred times in the face for even wasting his "professional leadership" on such a stupid subject. :2c:


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## DA SWO (Aug 9, 2010)

0699 said:


> Maybe this is the Marine in me, but why not?  What reason could wearing ball caps in CENTCOM serve?  Improving morale?
> 
> I have NO problems changing/modifying uniform regulations to suit the situation (not that it's ever been my call... ), but it seems like it should only be done for a reason that can be explained and understood pretty easily.
> 
> ...



I don't see a difference between a ball cap, patrol cap or 8-pt cap.  It has a bill, is comfortable, and keeps the sun out of my eyes.  I can velcro shit too it without too many people getting pissy.  Issue multicam patrol caps if your offended by a ball cap, but give the guys going off fob a little leeway.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Aug 9, 2010)

This shouldn't even be an issue.  We have way more important things to worry about than our warriors looking presentable in the field.   It doesn't surprise me where the orders came from.


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## EATIII (Aug 9, 2010)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> This shouldn't even be an issue.  We have way more important things to worry about than our warriors looking presentable in the field.   It doesn't surprise me where the orders came from.


 
Gen Patton had his troops wear ties:doh:

I'm not saying I agree with the late Gen, but he needed to instill discipline in the Africa Campaign, shake things up so to speak.

As was posted by the guys here that know whats up it will all work itself out:2c:


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## txpj007 (Aug 9, 2010)

cback0220 said:


> Like SBG said, the guys who need em will still have them. Let's not get into a hissy bout this yet. Guys haven't been wearing beards in Iraq for a long time. Did it change the way they fought?


 
Exactly! 

Now on another note. I have no intent of hijacking this thread.  However, am I the only one who thinks to much emphasis is put on grooming standards at the wrong time and that some standards are outdated?  Once after spending a month jobbing out in New Orleans in the wake of hurricane katrina. I got my ass handed to me by the Vice Wing Commander for my hair being out of regs when we were loading the plane to head home.  Really??  I just spent the last month sleeping in a condemned gymnasium, flying 8-12 hrs a day, jumping, hoisting, rappeling...you name it, into that terrible mess of a city and that is the "job well done" I received.

This same leadership sent 6 ANG PJ's packing because they were growing there beards out for an upcoming deployment(under our AFI and the permission of their CC).  A deployment that was 2 weeks away.  Here they are about to leave for the sandbox away from there family and friends for 6 months and they would rather be there helping out.  They were told "shave or go home."  I have a buddy who's convoy got hit by an IED and while he was taking cover behind is vehicle he was told that he needed to blouse his fucking boots!  

One last thing and I'll get off my soapbox.  I think a neatly groomed beard looks professional as well as a mustache that isn't trimmed like a member of the Third Reich. 

Sorry Mods I blacked out there for a second.  Delete/move post as needed...

But like Boon said...you would think there are more important things to worry about.


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## MS_girl (Aug 9, 2010)

I thought beards /Afghanistan sign of respect 

Mustache/Iraq sign of respect  I never really see them with beards ...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 9, 2010)

View attachment 12781View attachment 12782


txpj007 said:


> One last thing and I'll get off my soapbox.  I think a neatly groomed beard looks professional as well as a mustache that isn't trimmed like a member of the Third Reich.


 
Yep!


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## Headshot (Aug 10, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> You can send me your Oakley's and your caps.


 
What, so you can now look like Jack Nicholson in Anger Management?


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## SSdoc272 (Aug 10, 2010)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> This shouldn't even be an issue.  We have way more important things to worry about than our warriors looking presentable in the field.   It doesn't surprise me where the orders came from.



I agree with a lot of different things that you guys have all said. It really shouldn't be an issue though. The only problem facial hair might bring is proper sealing of your gas-mask, but when the hell was the last time we used those? Hell from what I've seen we get more use out of them by doing runs with them and disciplining boots. As far as looking professional, ok so make some grooming standards so the guys don't look like Santa in the desert, but there's obviously more important things to worry about that higher could focus on. They tell us its because we all need to look uniform and that helps keep us from being ambushed if the enemy sees us on patrol. Last time I checked they DGAF if we all look the same or if we're patrolling in jeans and tshirts. If they see the chance to kill our guys they take it. They also say its to win the hearts and minds of the people. Doing our job wins the hearts and minds of the people, not shaving our faces.

Sorry (ranting). The point is who cares? The higher aren't over there boots on the ground fighting and getting killed. My brothers-in-arms are. Hows about they focus on something to help keep us more safe or fight more efficient. :2c:


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## Burr (Aug 10, 2010)

Wait and see how it is after 2.4 more years of  Obama!


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## SSdoc272 (Aug 10, 2010)

Burr said:


> Wait and see how it is after 2.4 more years of  Obama!


Sad part is if I don't stay in that'll be the exact time I'm getting out :doh:


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## Burr (Aug 10, 2010)

Go to Doctor school and don't worry about it.


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## car (Aug 10, 2010)

txpj007 said:


> Now on another note. I have no intent of hijacking this thread.  However.......



LMAO!


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## Trip_Wire (Aug 10, 2010)

shortbrownguy said:


> I'd say the rationale is to stop the fobbits that are running around BAF and KAF with full beards for no reason. Unfortunately the majority of the people you see rocking the ZZ top look have no reason to have a beard in the first place. Lets not read too much into this. People who require relaxed grooming standards will still have them.
> PS- I still have a beard



I agree with what you have said here.


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## AWP (Aug 10, 2010)

I worry more about the policies you never hear about than the ones you see in the press.


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## 0699 (Aug 10, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> Fuck it, I think from this point foward every service member should have to wear their dress uniform in Astan.......It just more professional.
> 
> Most of the dudes I saw wearing all that stupid skull and bones bullshit were contractors and dumb privates, of course that was Iraq. *As for the beards, facial hair is a big deal in the muslim community. The muslim community is not only out side of the wire but also inside the wire. Also how fast can your grow a beard, to take on a mission outside the wire. Just b/c your fucking off in the rear today dosen't mean you will be there forever*... As for ballcaps, the boonie works better anyway... If it was up to me I would wear my straw stetson around the FOB and a boonie/brain bucket when out and about.
> 
> Some one needs to go punch him self a few hundred times in the face for even wasting his "professional leadership" on such a stupid subject. :2c:


 
Yeah, but none of the Muslims on base really give a crap if we have beards or not.  And who are all these people who need to grow beards?  I'm still not buying it.  You're telling me that guy I saw walking around the FOB EVERY DAY needed a beard?  No shit, we had a guy on our base from one of the TFs.  NEVER left the FOB the entire time I was there, yet wore a beard.  What's the point?  Honestly, he would have blended in his environment better being clean-shaven, wearing marked DCUs and carrying an M16A2.  With the beard and crap, he just made himself standout more and have people asking questions.

Again, I'm all on board with modified anything if there's a reason behind it, but a lot of the examples being thrown out here don't seem realistic to me.  I think for a lot of people, it's more about the cool guy factor than anything else.

And as far as a ballcap vice patrol cap, or beards looking professional, I've got no issues with that either, but let's just change the damn regulations and get it over with.  Hell, hands in the pockets don't bug me.  But let's come up with rules that make sense and stick to them...


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## DA SWO (Aug 10, 2010)

0699 said:


> You're telling me that guy I saw walking around the FOB EVERY DAY needed a beard?  No shit, we had a guy on our base from one of the TFs.  NEVER left the FOB the entire time I was there, yet wore a beard.  What's the point?  Honestly, he would have blended in his environment better being clean-shaven, wearing marked DCUs and carrying an M16A2.  With the beard and crap, he just made himself standout more and have people asking questions.
> 
> Again, I'm all on board with modified anything if there's a reason behind it, but a lot of the examples being thrown out here don't seem realistic to me.  I think for a lot of people, it's more about the cool guy factor than anything else.
> 
> And as far as a ballcap vice patrol cap, or beards looking professional, I've got no issues with that either, but let's just change the damn regulations and get it over with.  Hell, hands in the pockets don't bug me.  But let's come up with rules that make sense and stick to them...



I agree with the FOBBITs not needing the beard.  The guy at your FOB; what was his job?  I was in a unit that sent O's and Sr E's out as mission planners.  They did the same spin up training as the Operators.  They had relaxed grooming standards, the logic was they could temporarily fill in if someone was injured and unable to perform.  So I had bearded guys never leaving the FOB.  That said, I never grew a beard and would have filled in if necessary (or if I could have justified it).  I'd tell my bearded FOBbits to wear 5.11 pants and tell folks you were a contractor ;)


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## Headshot (Aug 10, 2010)

I knew things were going in a bad direction when a buddy of mine in 3rd got an ARCOM for having his room clean.  Stupid is as stupid does...that's all I have to say about thayut.


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## 0699 (Aug 10, 2010)

SOWT said:


> I agree with the FOBBITs not needing the beard.  The guy at your FOB; what was his job?  I was in a unit that sent O's and Sr E's out as mission planners.  They did the same spin up training as the Operators.  They had relaxed grooming standards, the logic was they could temporarily fill in if someone was injured and unable to perform.  So I had bearded guys never leaving the FOB.  That said, I never grew a beard and would have filled in if necessary (or if I could have justified it).  I'd tell my bearded FOBbits to wear 5.11 pants and tell folks you were a contractor ;)


 
Liasion for the TF...

And I'm on board with the wearing civvies.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 10, 2010)

0699 said:


> Yeah, but (snip)


 
Good post, I agree the FOB runners should not be fucking with the uniform standards. I do however think it's still a dumb issue to worry about. Where is that FOBBIT's command on that issue? Why is it that the units can't take care of their own house, why does a flag officer have to come down with a policy for  every swinging dick? I never served in any SOF unit but we would still adjust our uniform standards as we saw fit (when on mission) but when we got back to the flag pole we did the right thing. Not b/c some flag officer told us too, but b/c we knew what was right, and what would get us put in front of the boss... So what the fuck?

That being said I can see a reason for SOF guys to maintain the shaggy look at the FOB when they are off mission. You come off mission or get some time in the rear, you should not have to shave and get pretty when you know your heading back out...


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## 0699 (Aug 10, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> Good post, I agree the FOB runners should not be fucking with the uniform standards. I do however think it's still a dumb issue to worry about. Where is that FOBBIT's command on that issue? Why is it that the units can't take care of their own house, why does a flag officer have to come down with a policy for  every swinging dick? I never served in any SOF unit but we would still adjust our uniform standards as we saw fit (when on mission) but when we got back to the flag pole we did the right thing. Not b/c some flag officer told us too, but b/c we knew what was right, and what would get us put in front of the boss... So what the fuck?
> 
> That being said I can see a reason for SOF guys to maintain the shaggy look at the FOB when they are off mission. You come off mission or get some time in the rear, you should not have to shave and get pretty when you know your heading back out...


 
I think we're going circular on this... 

Example from my own past... We were stationed on a camp belonging to another unit that was "higher ranking" than us, but not in our COC since we worked directly for the MEF.  MEF had established uniform policies that were modified from the MCO for deployment.  One of the things the MEF allowed was the wearing of watch caps.  The unit that owned the FOB we were living on did NOT allow watch caps, as the MC has always said that a subordinate commander can make a regulation more strict, but not less.  Our CO decided that we were going to follow the MEF order and allow our Marines to wear watch caps WHEN REASONABLE.  We took a lot of flak from the members of the other unit (I had to wear out some SNCOs from the other unit who were yelling at our Marines), but since we weren't under their commander, our CO was within his rights to not follow their policies.

All that to say that there were STILL Marines in our unit that would f*** it up.  I'm walking across the FOB and I see one of our dipshits wearing his watch cap when it was 70 degrees out.  Happened multiple times, making our unit and Marines look IMO like morons.  Our CO goes to bat for us and allows us to wear watch caps when it's cold, but then looks like an idiot in front of other commanders when the guys are just being stupid.  And it's the same story every time "Aren't I allowed to wear it?", like I'm some dubass that doesn't know the order.  Trying to get everyone to follow the reasonable man approach is how I like to do things ("Why aren't your hands in your pockets?  Don't you realize it's cold out?!?" ), but there's always 10% that want to push the envelope.

Here's my two cents, and I still don't any evidence here that my opinion should change: If there a legitimate reason to modify the policy, then by all means do it, but to say "we are going to wear beards because we're XXXX unit" just doesn't make sense to me.  If there's a legitimate reason for XXXX unit to wear a beard or ball cap or terminator patch, then it should be pretty easy to explain why.

Peace. :)


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## dknob (Aug 10, 2010)

I don't think the issue is about beards at the heart of the matter. I think its about the shagginess appearance some of the SF guys. The Guys that were doing it because they wanted to looked cool and different fucked it up for the ones who needed it. And I don't blame them. I wish I had a damn beard overseas. I dont know what EXACTLY is going on in regards to training the ANA or ANP by SFers, but its my opinion from a remote location lol. It's bad when contractors are looking 100x more professional than some of these guys, haha.


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## AssadUSMC (Aug 10, 2010)

I don't shave overseas, but that's because I'm lazy.


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## shortbrownguy (Aug 10, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> Good post, I agree the FOB runners should not be fucking with the uniform standards. I do however think it's still a dumb issue to worry about. Where is that FOBBIT's command on that issue? Why is it that the units can't take care of their own house, why does a flag officer have to come down with a policy for  every swinging dick? I never served in any SOF unit but we would still adjust our uniform standards as we saw fit (when on mission) but when we got back to the flag pole we did the right thing. Not b/c some flag officer told us too, but b/c we knew what was right, and what would get us put in front of the boss... So what the fuck?
> 
> That being said I can see a reason for SOF guys to maintain the shaggy look at the FOB when they are off mission. You come off mission or get some time in the rear, you should not have to shave and get pretty when you know your heading back out...


 
We do a piss poor job of policing up our own, and piss and moan when others get involved. The main issue here is there are many SOF unit members that are running around with grooming standards that are out of control. Goatee's, braids and dreadlocks are not within the scope of relaxed grooming standards, yet I have seen it more than a few times. Ask yourself this. If you belong to a SOF unit that doesn't interact with the local population, work directly with the ANA, ASG, ANP, etc., do you really need a beard to conduct your mission? 

This directive was put out over a month ago, and only now has hit the headlines. Like I said before, those who require relaxed grooming standards still have, and those who don't have shaving cream and a razor in their future...


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## car (Aug 11, 2010)

Invisible J said:


> Random thought: why not allow standardized, well groomed beards DoD wide?


 
Why? I have plenty of answers, but am interested in your reasons.......said the spider to the fly


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## car (Aug 11, 2010)

Invisible J said:


> Not a loaded question, really - so I counter with...why not?
> 
> Other nations' services allow beards, I'd be interested to see what complications, if any, it has caused.
> 
> Off the top of my head, the only reason I can see for _not_ allowing beards is the use of gas masks.


 
And when was the last time any of us actually had to "don masks?"

I agree with you.......for the most part (just being that old ret SGM....) I really can't think of a good reason
Hell, I had a nustache unti I made E8....facial haie is facial hair


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## DA SWO (Aug 11, 2010)

Invisible J said:


> Random thought: why not allow standardized, well groomed beards DoD wide?



Define well groomed?  Seriously, the Navy tried it in the late 70's(?) and it got out of hand.  Easier to have a policy of no then to put acceptability limits on beards.


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## txpj007 (Aug 11, 2010)

SOWT said:


> Define well groomed?  Seriously, the Navy tried it in the late 70's(?) and it got out of hand.  Easier to have a policy of no then to put acceptability limits on beards.


 
easy...theres already one in place for people on shaving waivers for their "folliculitis"


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 11, 2010)

shortbrownguy said:


> We do a piss poor job of policing up our own, and piss and moan when others get involved. The main issue here is there are many SOF unit members that are running around with grooming standards that are out of control. Goatee's, braids and dreadlocks are not within the scope of relaxed grooming standards, yet I have seen it more than a few times. Ask yourself this. If you belong to a SOF unit that doesn't interact with the local population, work directly with the ANA, ASG, ANP, etc., do you really need a beard to conduct your mission?
> 
> This directive was put out over a month ago, and only now has hit the headlines. Like I said before, those who require relaxed grooming standards still have, and those who don't have shaving cream and a razor in their future...



This post pretty much sums it up.  If you need a beard, you will probably have a beard.  Otherwise, sorry if the man keeps oppressing your inner SF soldier.


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## txpj007 (Aug 11, 2010)

RustyShackleford said:


> This post pretty much sums it up.  If you need a beard, you will probably have a beard.  *Otherwise, sorry if the man keeps oppressing your inner SF soldier*.


 
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


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## SSdoc272 (Aug 12, 2010)

Invisible J said:


> If we can define hair cuts, sideburns, finger nails, etc., I'm sure we could find a way to define beards. For the Air Force alone, if they have time to decide the minimum height for my PT socks, they have time to break out their crayons and draw what is an acceptable beard
> 
> I was still wearing diapers in the late 70's - how was the Navy's experiment out of hand?



I couldn't agree with you more. If they have time to come up with all these other dip-shit standards (like where I should wear my boot blouses :doh:) they can come up with standards for facial hair too. They're just being lazy and it's easier to just say shave it all off.


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## Calc_N_Place (Aug 17, 2010)

RustyShackleford said:


> This post pretty much sums it up.  If you need a beard, you will probably have a beard.  Otherwise, sorry if the man keeps oppressing your inner SF soldier.


 
I must agree, we fought for months to get the go ahead for relaxed grooming standards and yes there will always be idiots amongst us that push the limit too far. I really don't care what you wear or how you wear it, just don't have a F'ing ponytail and call the man that makes these decision "Buddy" he really hates that.


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## JimMCpog (Aug 21, 2010)

LOL that's the stuff that drove us crazy in the USMC. Apparently the military is going through a phase similar to post Vietnam where they kicked out a lot of unwanted NCOs, got into a lot of garrison game playing, and forced that set of priorities on everyone.

You could always go the civilian route...


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## Teddy13BU6 (Apr 17, 2011)

The way I view it is that SF soldiers in Afghanistan need to blend with the locals. No sense in making them look like the Russians in the 80's. SMH, This is a sad decision on the behalf of the Commanders. Unconventional Warriors are there trade mark. They are taught to blend, understand and train foreign troops. Those beards mean business to the Afghan's. They need to keep them, cause without a beard you make them out to be another "Conventional Warrior". Whats next? Make them wear ACU IOTVs and Helmet covers? Full unit patches and all? Limit them combat loads to 7 mags? SMH


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## Headshot (Apr 17, 2011)




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## alibi (Apr 17, 2011)

Holy resurrection, batman.


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## x SF med (Apr 17, 2011)

Teddy, Alibi...

Did either of you notice the date on the last post in this thread?

Teddy - A little research would have let you know where this issue had ended up, and let you know why this had ended so abruptly.  You state in your intro that you are thinking of SF or SF Support in your future, you put the onus for a higher standard upon yourself with those claims - FAIL.  Please check out the mentorship thread.

Alibi-  Shush.  Being 18 and a copy cat of a senior member of the board will not endear you to the membership.  Read more, post less.


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## alibi (Apr 17, 2011)

x SF med said:


> Teddy, Alibi...
> 
> Did either of you notice the date on the last post in this thread?
> 
> ...



Roger that


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## Teddy13BU6 (Apr 17, 2011)

Read ya lima charlie.


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## x SF med (Apr 17, 2011)

Teddy13BU6 said:


> Read ya lima charlie.



Teddy - You are NOT a SOGvet please change your Avatar immediately.
Failure to comply will force me to grab a few members of the RTs and allow them to use you as a chew toy.
Do you prefer getting turned into hamburger by Bronze Star, Silver Star, Legion of Merit, DSC or MoH recipients?
Your choice Specialist...


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## Headshot (Apr 17, 2011)




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## Crusader74 (Apr 17, 2011)

Headshot said:


> View attachment 3985



The power of Christ compels you!!


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2011)

Wow this is an old thread.


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## Headshot (Apr 17, 2011)

Irish said:


> The power of Christ compels you!!


Indeed it does.


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