# Selection of personal sidearms



## Entry95 (Oct 27, 2008)

I was wondering do operators have an individual choice in sidearms or do they get issued mission specific weapons (M9 pistols or Sig 226)? On my dept we're all issued Glocks except for Team member who are issued Sig 1911's. Now old guys like myself were issued Glock 23's but the new guys (3 yrs and under) are issued Glock 22's. If your a detective or drug unit you may swap your pistol for a Glock 27. How does it work for the operators?


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## Cabbage Head (Oct 27, 2008)

Don't know about other places but, at mine we are issued G22's.  Doesn't matter what your assignmets is, you still still issued the same weapon.  And its with the NY trigger (approx 8lbs).


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## Entry95 (Oct 28, 2008)

We also have the New York trigger in our weapons (which is stupid, that's not the way Gaston Glock designed the gun) but the team carries Sig 1911's with a 5 lbs trigger.


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## WillBrink (Oct 28, 2008)

Cabbage Head said:


> Don't know about other places but, at mine we are issued G22's.  Doesn't matter what your assignmets is, you still still issued the same weapon.  And its with the NY trigger (approx 8lbs).



Some interesting info on the various Glock triggers. There's even a "NY Plus" I never heard about. It's 62lbs....kidding! :)


"Glock developed two solutions for the police market. For Miami Dade, Glock engineered a heavier 8-lb. (nominal) connector which required some three pounds of additional force during final let-off to fire the gun. For New York, Glock developed the very different “New York” trigger, which left the original 5.5-lb. connector in place but replaced the coiled-steel trigger spring with a polymer leaf-style spring of unique design, altering the entire feel of the trigger, providing more resistance during the initial stage, and adding about three pounds to the overall pull weight. A “New York Plus” spring was also developed which adds about six pounds to the pull weight."

http://www.boatmanbooks.com/samplelwglocks.html


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## 7point62 (Oct 28, 2008)

Some operators are outfitted the same way professional athletes are, with regard to gear. Weapons selection would vary depending upon mission requirements.


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## 8'Duece (Oct 28, 2008)

I think you'll find that SF, and Rangers etc are still issued the M9 Beretta, regardless of internet fodder and wannabee's wishes for exotic pistols of choice. 

SEALs generally carry the Sig P226 9mm and some water ops use the S&W 686 .357 Mag.  The Mk23 "SOCOM" pistol was used by some teams and not others. It also was a mission specific pistol. Although some support guy's with USASFC apparently have the Mk23 "SOCOM" issued to them.  I believe, from a credible source, that the Mk23 was turned into Crane and was then requested by USASFC. Not sure if any SF soldiers on the teams are carrying it or not, but I do know of some SF support that are now supposedly carrying it.  Having a .45 ACP caliber weapon in inventory will get a ready supply of .45 caliber ammunition.  I do know that some 1911's exist in some armory rooms but are not  not Army type classified and most likely are MFP11 type purchases. Again, having a .45 ACP in the inventory will garner more ammuntion. 

Most of the police departments around here are carrying the Sig P226 and P229 chambered in .40 Smith.


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## Entry95 (Oct 28, 2008)

My department was testing Smith & Wesson M&P's in .40s. I had a chance to fire the  pistol and it was great ( bought one in .45 full size). But the powers that wear the stars put  the Ki-bosh on the project (they are pure Glock fans).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 28, 2008)

Cabbage Head said:


> And its with the NY trigger (approx 8lbs).



That is madness!


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## WillBrink (Oct 28, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> That is madness!



Fear of liability causes PDs to often put the LEO in greater risk...


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## Cecil (Oct 29, 2008)

We used pretty well set-up 1911's.

It is still my favorite, even though superior technology exist (sentimental I guess).


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## AssadUSMC (Oct 30, 2008)

We are issued G17s, 19s or 26s depending on the profile we have, M4s or 416s again depending on the unit assigned, and assorted other items if the need arises.  Personal gear is totally up to the individual.  I don't tend to wear soft armor, just a plate carrier and a MICH.  Also, mag pouches, etc. are up to the individual operator.  I don't mind the issue stuff - I'd probably pick a Glock and 416 if it were up to me anyway.


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## Entry95 (Nov 2, 2008)

Off duty we can carry what ever we want. I usually carry a 1911 or a Smith&Wesson M&P in .45; I tried to stick with in reason to what I carry on duty because of muscle memory in a gun fight.:2c: (In operation that is - pull and shoot.)


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## Trip_Wire (Nov 3, 2008)

My old department (King County Sheriff's) is issued the Glock 22 as there duty weapon. They can carry their weapon of choice, while off duty, as long as it is .38/9MM or above. They must qualify with their off duty weapon as well.

Our SWAT team, also uses the Glock 22 as well. (This makes me sort of angry, as I had arranged for the team to be issued and carry the SIG 220 in .45 caliber, when I was the unit CO. )

As for me, I have a lot of choices; however, most of the time I'll be carrying a Glock 27 ,40 Cal. in a butt pack, or a S&W 422 in .38 Cal. in a leather Kramer pocket holster. (Picked mostly for comfort & convenience.)


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## Rowdyraven (Dec 7, 2008)

*Q&A on 2 SIGS, Plus locate replacement for stolen gun*

I wonder if anyone can provide any feedback on The SIG SP2022, 9mm. I have been eyeing it for a while now, but haven't been able to put my hands on one yet. How is the balance on it-anyone?
Also I have been looking for SIG P228 9mm, but no luck in finding one. Any thoughs on that?
Lastly, it with sad heart that I say this, but I am trying desperately to find a replacement Rossi "Cyclops" .357....as while I was deployed out, my home was broken into and it along with Super Red Hawk was stolen...along with several big screen TV's and Laptops. Dirty rotten no good rat bastards! I can not beleive my baby is gone! 
They better hope they get caught before I find them, I won't show any mercy. Point is my Insurance Company is using a National Vendor to try and find the replacement, and have had no luck so far. Here is a pic of it...er them...not S&W .40CAL-I had that with me at the time.
View attachment 6826

If any one can guide me to a replacement I would be very grateful. :2c:


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## Polar Bear (Dec 7, 2008)

Rowdyraven said:


> I wonder if anyone can provide any feedback on The SIG SP2022, 9mm. I have been eyeing it for a while now, but haven't been able to put my hands on one yet. How is the balance on it-anyone?
> Also I have been looking for SIG P228 9mm, but no luck in finding one. Any thoughs on that?
> Lastly, it with sad heart that I say this, but I am trying desperately to find a replacement Rossi "Cyclops" .357....as while I was deployed out, my home was broken into and it along with Super Red Hawk was stolen...along with several big screen TV's and Laptops. Dirty rotten no good rat bastards! I can not beleive my baby is gone!
> They better hope they get caught before I find them, I won't show any mercy. Point is my Insurance Company is using a National Vendor to try and find the replacement, and have had no luck so far. Here is a pic of it...er them...not S&W .40CAL-I had that with me at the time.
> ...


 

Buy Glock


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## WillBrink (Dec 7, 2008)

Rowdyraven said:


> Here is a pic of it...er them...not S&W .40CAL-I had that with me at the time.
> 
> If any one can guide me to a replacement I would be very grateful. :2c:



What ever you get will be better then that SnW Sigma, including the new Snw MnP line, or Glock, or HK, etc. I'm a 1911 guy personally. Lots of good wheel guns out there to replace what you lost, like Snw 686 and other models.

Two, not only have you lost a collection, you now have guns in circulation that may end of killing someone at worst, used in a crime at least.

Personally, I don't think anyone should own guns minus a way to store them securely.* For the fraction of the cost of your collection and lap tops, etc, a good safe** would have prevented that. Or, it would have made it a damn bit harder for them to get the stuff at least. Lap tops, etc could also have been saved....***

Invest in a good "safe" FIRST, then start re stocking your collection.****


* Though I am not in favor of mandatory laws that force it on people.

** Most of what is sold as a "safe" is not BTW, they are RSCs

*** Relying on a safe alone is a mistake. Truly effective home security is layered, and involves properly installed locks, etc, as well as an alarm system, which costs very little these days, especially when you factor in what it costs to replace a collection, etc.

**** Best of the RSCs is the AMSEC BF Series, which properly bolted down, will prevent theft from all but the most experienced and prepared thieves, but the real issue is time. Less for them, the better.


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## arizonaguide (Dec 7, 2008)

Good advice, Will.  I was just pricing the Gun "safes" at Cabellas yesterday (while scope hunting for the -06, and they are NOT that pricey, especially when combined with a "layered" security plan such as you mentioned.  Not to mention the "other" stuff you can keep secured in one (besides guns).  RangerPsych was mentioning in another post about hiding it behind a "false wall" kind of idea, which is also good if ya can do it.
Mine will be in a Walk in closet, bolted to the concrete floor, behind a locking steel closet door and an alarm system (w/ backup power).
the 12ga and the pistols for momma and myself will be in a dresser with a secret drawer/hidden activation button that I'm designing.
You are exactly right that I couldn't stand the thought of my weapons being stolen and used in crimes.


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## WillBrink (Dec 7, 2008)

arizonaguide said:


> You are exactly right that I couldn't stand the thought of my weapons being stolen and used in crimes.



Sounds like a plan! Additional comments on safes, RSCs, etc. in this thread:

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2728&highlight=amsec

Don't fall for shiny fancy looking "safes" that have minimal security. Research the difference between an RSC, a safe, and ratings for safes, and decide what you want to spend, and what it's worth for extra protection and piece of mind in that area.:)


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## arizonaguide (Dec 7, 2008)

YUP, it's gotta be "crowbar/prybar" proof...and Bolted to the floor.
Also being behind another locked/steel (alarmed) walk-in closet (saferoom) door will help.
As you said Will: "layering, layering, layering!"

Damn it, though..it probably STILL wouldn't stop the Mission Impossible crew.
:eek:

That reminds me..., has anyone seen a source for Kevlar(or equal) Wainscoting?


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## Rowdyraven (Dec 7, 2008)

This was not what you think it was. An entire wall of my basement was rammed by a vehicle, then the fire safe chained and pulled out. Fortunately all of my heavy guns are locked up at the Sheriff's Dept, near the range.

This is the 6 type of break in in this area since August, and they have not been able to catch them....but its someone local-we know that-they know us, our habits and our firearms.

Trust me, these guns are not in circulation, and we WILL get them eventually.

But thanks for the solid advice anyhow.

One other notably nasty thing done....this happen during the day, and....they beat the hell out of my Rottweiler-Dokken....there were at least three of them attacking her, as we found metal pipes with her teeth marks on each of them. She fought them back hard, and if I hadn't lost my big girl Dakota earlier this year, at least one of them if not more, may not have made it out in one piece. RIP-Dakota-you are missed.
FYI-Dokken had a fractured scapula, but she is recovering well.


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## WillBrink (Dec 7, 2008)

Rowdyraven said:


> Trust me, these guns are not in circulation, and we WILL get them eventually.
> 
> But thanks for the solid advice anyhow.



Wow, that's a messed up story! Sorry about the assumptions. Yup, it has to be someone who knows what you have and where it was. That would seem to narrow it down I hope! I don't know if it's worth the $$$ to you or not, but consider talking with a real safe installer. A true TL30 rated safe* installed correctly, will take a fork lift or explosives to get out of there! ...Good luck.

* To the best of my knowledge, only AMSEC makes TL30 rated gun safe. Not even bolted down, it's almost 3,500lbs. Bolted down, It's not going anyplace short of industrial fork lift. See:

http://www.deansafe.com/ams-rf6528.html


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## Polar Bear (Dec 7, 2008)

Dude is a Chick


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## WillBrink (Dec 7, 2008)

Polar Bear said:


> Dude is a Chick



Noted. Correction made, thanx. ;)


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## MontereyJack (Dec 7, 2008)

Sorry for the injury/death of your dogs Raven. Also sorry for your theft loss. 
Wonder what the list of parolees living in your neighborhood looks like. If you have a decent probation department, perhaps they could help you out also. 
Hopefully the Investigator assigned to your case isn't over whelmed with cases so he/she can spend time with you solving this. The suspects have a track record in this, would be interested in checking outside agencies for similar M.O.A.


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## Rowdyraven (Dec 7, 2008)

For some reason I always get taken as "one of the guys"....good thing I have no feelings, otherwise they might have been stomped on-LOL
I'd rather hang with the guys anyways-I lean more that way.

Thanks for the tip on the safe, I am actually going to pursue that, otherwise I might end up in prison....God forbid it should ever happen again. But it wont.

Again, I just want to say thanks for the advice-it is truely welcome.

RowdyRaven

"Hang tight-cause its gonna be one hell of a ride....awe shit....that left a mark didn't it"


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## arizonaguide (Dec 7, 2008)

Holly shit.  That makes me re-evaluate the whole "saferoom-walkin closet" concept.


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## Rowdyraven (Dec 7, 2008)

Times are tough out there....economically and in the job market. Things are on a downward spiral for common folks-and crazy crime is on the rise.

Trust me when I tell you its going to get worse before it gets better.

What happened to me, and the others here is NOT the same thing, but it does serve as an example of just how nuts some people are...or are getting to be. 

The more desperate thier circumstances, the more dangerous they become.

I am damned glad I am armed and dangerous.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.:2c:


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## RetPara (Dec 8, 2008)

arizonaguide said:


> Holly shit.  That makes me re-evaluate the whole "saferoom-walkin closet" concept.



Unless you want to go the Fort Knox\former NORAD Colorado Springs facility\bunker up the house.... reasonable security is a a formulation of

Threat/Vulnerabilities/Assets Available.


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## WillBrink (Dec 8, 2008)

RetPara said:


> Unless you want to go the Fort Knox\former NORAD Colorado Springs facility\bunker up the house.... reasonable security is a a formulation of
> 
> Threat/Vulnerabilities/Assets Available.



Well said!


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## arizonaguide (Dec 8, 2008)

RetPara said:


> Unless you want to go the Fort Knox\former NORAD Colorado Springs facility\bunker up the house.... reasonable security is a a formulation of
> 
> Threat/Vulnerabilities/Assets Available.


Yeah, it's that damn "assets available"($$$) that's the limiting factor for me!
No shortage of threats.
I'm slowly Working on the vulnerabilities

Will mentioned the tax writeoff idea, and that's something I'll look into also, working as a "Security Director" (just a fancy freaking title..but maybe I can use it as Will suggested).

:cool:


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## 7point62 (Dec 10, 2008)

.45 H&K SOCOM with Knight suppressor.


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## arizonaguide (Dec 10, 2008)

Browning HiPower in .40SW. :) (fit's my small monkey paw)


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## sgtlew (Dec 11, 2008)

I carry a Springfield TRP on duty.  For off duty it depends on my clothing and mood.  Mostly a Sig 229.  I carry the Ruger LCP for a "get off me gun" when I'm not wearing layers.  

Most of the officers on my department carry the issued Tupperware (Glock 22).  I like Glock, but prefer a 1911 to about everything else on the market.  About a year ago I finally convinced the chief into letting officers carry what works best for them.  Everyone is built differently and some just do better with something else.

Just my $.02


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## arizonaguide (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, after realizing the "patrol carry" gun was not needed so much, and more of a (Hospital/polo shirts) "plainclothes" (CCW) rig was, I made some changes.  Sold the HiPower .40 (in ONE day!) and purchased the following 2 replacements:
(Both are small enough to fit my smaller hand, and can hide easily under polo shirts.)

*KAHR P45* w/tritiums and blackened stainless slide
Anyone have good advice on the *best defense ammo for the .45*???






*S&W 442*
My research indicates the Speer .38 (+P) gold dot short barrel 135grains JHP for the .38.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 2, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> My research indicates the Speer .38 (+P) gold dot short barrel 135grains JHP for the .38.




I don't know if you reload,  a old favorite, 148Gr hollow base wad cutter, loaded backwads,  hollow base out.  Also loaded hot.  We used them in 38 Sp. for our boot guns.   Agencies may have limitations on nonauthorized rounds.


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## arizonaguide (Jan 2, 2009)

I like that H!  I don't reload, but that's a nice thought.  I kept reading about the "FBI" 158gr LWC load also for the .38.
I actually couldn't find hardly ANY 38sp. ammo, until I went to my little gunshop, then he didn't have the Speer 135's, but I had read good numbers on the Hornady "critical defense" 110gr. JHP's and grabbed a box of those, that he did have. 

Any good advice on a .45 round?  Am I okay with just about anything in a 230g JHP?  Any favorites?
(It's my FIRST .45! :))


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## phantom1984 (Jan 12, 2009)

*what i carry*

even though im not military (God how i wish i was ) i carry a Beretta 9 Mil and a Beretta 22 cal i keep in a pocket holster.along with my CRKT M16-14SF


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## multicamuser (Aug 5, 2009)

Our department issues every deputy a Glock 22.  If your in a specialized unit that rolls plain clothes you have the option of an alternate duty weapon.  I've been shooting the Glock 22 for about 15 years and have never had a problem.  One of my partners has reported to me having problems with the light attached to the frame though.


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## American-n-NZ (Aug 5, 2009)

I was carrying a Glock 22, and when I get back to the States I will try to get my Concealed permit, and then will need a new one to carry. When I came over here for some reason I had about 250 rounds of .40 target, and about 100 rounds of .40 "home protection" rounds. I actually donated them to the Police department in my Mom's little town before I left. They all carry the Glock 22 as well. I am sure they found a good home... :)


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## arizonaguide (Aug 5, 2009)

I've settled on the 1911 in .45, backed up with the SW442 .38sp.

But I will admit I've got my eye on the XDm...and I'm just waiting to see if they're gonna come out with the thing in .45 or not. It would be nice to standardize on .45 ammo.

I still have a bunch of .40sw left over from my old Browning Highpower...so maybe I'll get tired of waiting and get the XDm in .40 soon...if they don't get off their ass and start making one in .45.


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