# Chaplain RASP Preparation



## Il Duce (Dec 11, 2014)

I have a Chaplain who works for me (CPT) just selected to attend RASP in March 2015 (we just returned from a deployment in November).

He is a PT stud, great Chaplain, and all-around great dude - but he's only got a little over a year in the Army (11 months of it deployed).  Chaplains are commissioned from their diocese (he is a Catholic priest) so went essentially from a civilian to a military officer overnight.

He interviewed and the Regiment wants him now so we support him fully.  My question to the forum's experts is what do you recommend we focus on to get him as ready as possible in the very limited time we have.  My biggest concern is the basic Soldier skills he has zero experience with - Chaplains of course not going through marksmanship, tactics, demolitions, and other infantry training.  However, I am not Ranger qualified, have never served in the Regiment, and am not familiar with RASP other than what I have read on the forum.

We unfortunatley don't have a pre-Ranger class starting and ending before he has to go, and most of our pre-Ranger cadre is instructing a course at another post.

Would appreciate any advice on how to help set him up for success.


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## x SF med (Dec 12, 2014)

Get him a Ranger Handbook.    Just put your stellar training skills into play and teach him the basics of patrolling, weapons maintenance, marksmanship, hygiene, and start him rucking a little....  I feel a little sorry for the Father, but he is going to have to stand up to be a 'brother' in the Regiment. get him to the level of a guy just out of Basic, or as close as you can.... if he's motivated, he'll do well.


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## Il Duce (Dec 12, 2014)

@x SF med WILCO, thanks!


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 12, 2014)

Il Duce said:


> @x SF med WILCO, thanks!



This Chaplin has the makings, to be one hell of a priest. I wish him the very best. 

If you think of it, and have the time, see if you can receuit him to a SS membership. I would love to have him as a site member; a win-win if you will.


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## Il Duce (Dec 12, 2014)

@Red Flag 1 definitely, I had the same thought.  I've been trying to gather resources for him and SS is going to be on the list.  Also believe @goon175 wrote a book on Ranger School preparation I was going to check out and give to him.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 12, 2014)

Il Duce said:


> @Red Flag 1 definitely, I had the same thought.  I've been trying to gather resources for him and SS is going to be on the list.  Also believe @goon175 wrote a book on Ranger School preparation I was going to check out and give to him.



Thanks, amigo.


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## x SF med (Dec 12, 2014)

Red Flag 1 said:


> This Chaplin has the makings, to be one hell of a priest. I wish him the very best.
> 
> If you think of it, and have the time, see if you can receuit him to a SS membership. I would love to have him as a site member; a win-win if you will.



If he is a Jesuit or Dominican or Christian Brother, he'll definitely have no problem.... there is a reason they're nicknamed (in order) God's Green Berets, CIA of Christ, and the Holy Rangers....:-"

Um, do we really need a site Chaplain?:wall::wall::wall:


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## Ranger Psych (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm asking my buddy who was the chaplain's assistant at 3/75 if he's got any tips, pointers, etc. He might also have our old chaplain as a POC for information on what to be concerned about for initial aspects of a cherry chaplain in Regiment.


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## DA SWO (Dec 14, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> I'm asking my buddy who was the chaplain's assistant at 3/75 if he's got any tips, pointers, etc. He might also have our old chaplain as a POC for information on what to be concerned about for initial aspects of a cherry chaplain in Regiment.


Can't he just call the current chaplain and ask what field skills he needs to learn?


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

Il Duce said:


> My biggest concern is the basic Soldier skills he has zero experience with - Chaplains of course not going through marksmanship, tactics, demolitions, and other infantry training.  However, I am not Ranger qualified, have never served in the Regiment, and am not familiar with RASP other than what I have read on the forum.


A Chaplain is not a shooter.  A chaplain has rank without command.  So why is RASP even required for Chaplain assignment to a Ranger Unit?

Reference:

*Executive Order 10028--Defining noncombatant service and noncombatant training*

By virtue of and pursuant to the authority vested in me by Title I of the Selective Service Act of 1948 (62 Stat. 604), and as President of the United States, the following definitions are hereby prescribed for the purposes of section 6(j) of the said Act:
1. The term "noncombatant service" shall mean (a) service in any unit of the armed forces which is unarmed at all times; (b) service in the medical department of any of the armed forces, wherever performed; or (c) any other assignment the primary function of which does not require the use of arms in combat; provided that such other assignment is acceptable to the individual concerned and does not require him to bear arms or to be trained in their use.
2. The term "noncombatant training" shall mean any training which is not concerned with the study, use, or handling of arms or weapons.


The 1949 Geneva Conventions, Article 24

Medical personnel exclusively engaged in the search for, or the collection, transport or treatment of the wounded or sick, or in the prevention of disease, staff exclusively engaged in the administration of medical units and establishments, as well as chaplains attached to the armed forces, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.

*TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE ARMED FORCES
§ 3581. Command: chaplains*
A chaplain has rank without command.

*TITLE 10, UNITED STATES CODE ARMED FORCES
§ 8581. Command: chaplains*
An officer designated as a chaplain has rank without command.

DOD Instruction 1300.21 Code of Conduct (CoC) Training and Education

E2.2.1.1.2. Medical personnel and chaplains are obligated to abide by the provisions of the CoC; however, their special retained status under the Geneva Conventions (reference (g)) grants them some flexibility in its implementation as outlined in section E2.3. Medical personnel, depending on their mission profile and employment capabilities, require varying levels of CoC training.

E2.3.1. Article I. Under the Geneva Conventions, medical personnel who are exclusively engaged in the medical service of their armed forces and chaplains who fall into the hands of the enemy are "retained personnel" and are not POWs. While this
allows them the latitude and flexibility necessary to perform their professional duties, it does not relieve them of their obligation to abide by the provisions of the CoC. Like all members of the Armed Forces, medical personnel and chaplains are accountable for their actions.

E2.3.2. Article II. No additional flexibility. However, medical personnel and chaplains are subject to lawful capture. They may only resort to arms in self-defense or in defense of the wounded and sick in their charge when attacked in violation of the
Geneva Convention (I). They must refrain from all aggressive action and may not use force to prevent their capture or that of their unit by the enemy. It is, on the other hand, perfectly legitimate for a medical unit to withdraw in the face of the enemy.

E2.3.4. Article IV. Medical personnel shall not assume command over non-medical personnel and chaplains shall not assume command over military personnel of any branch. Military Service regulations that restrict eligibility of those personnel for command shall be explained to all personnel at an applicable level of understanding to preclude later confusion in a POW camp.


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

x SF med said:


> If he is a Jesuit or Dominican or Christian Brother, he'll definitely have no problem.... there is a reason they're nicknamed (in order) God's Green Berets, CIA of Christ, and the Holy Rangers....:-"
> 
> Um, do we really need a site Chaplain?:wall::wall::wall:


You do know atheists, excuse me humanists, are demanding for atheist military chaplains?  He or she doesn't need to be a person of god at all.

Nontheistic service members including atheists, agnostics, humanists, freethinkers, and others identifying as nontheists serve honorably within our nation’s military. Chaplains should support nontheistic service members with the same enthusiasm, resources, and services that they provide for theistic service members. Leaders should not use their position to influence individuals or the chain of command to adopt the leader’s own personal religion. These are minimum standards of conduct to which all service members, especially chaplains and commanders, should adhere. - See more at: http://militaryatheists.org/chaplain/#sthash.lShTtf3u.dpuf

The Humanist Society, endorsed Oxford-educated religious scholar Jason Heap during 2013 to be the first-ever humanist chaplain in the U.S. Navy.   The US Congress is still debating the legislation that would make it so.   If it becomes so,  who is going to be the site's Vestal Virgins and will there be pictures and videos involved in the screening and selection process?


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## medicchick (Dec 14, 2014)

Johca said:


> A Chaplain is not a shooter.  A chaplain has rank without command.  So why is RASP even required for Chaplain assignment to a Ranger Unit?



It's required because everyone in Regiment goes through RASP.  Even the cooks do, and some even go to Ranger School.  There is more taught then just shooting.


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## Il Duce (Dec 14, 2014)

@Johca the Ranger Assessment and Selection Program (RASP) is used to assess suitability to serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment.  My understanding is everyone who wants to be a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment, including support personnel, must successfully complete RASP.  Most will go on to attend the Ranger Leader Course (Ranger School) at some point in their service in the Regiment.

There are a variety of benefits to everyone completing the same requirements, even if their specialty may not call on some of the skills.  My opinion is that a Chaplain who has gone through the same selection and training as the other members of the unit will find it easier to minister to those Soldiers as the perspective and credibility of shared sacrifice and hardship makes the team tighter.  Regardless of my opinion, RASP completion is a requirement for Chaplains to serve.

Right now there are no Atheist or Humanist Chaplains, though there have been unsuccessful entreaties on the subject going back several years.  I'm not sure how things will ultimately end up but one of the practical difficulties in taking a Chaplain from outside the Abrahamic religions is the prerequisites.  A Chaplain is required to have ministerial experience with a parish of  a certain size and be sponsored by a religious organization - essentially vouching for their qualifications.  The military does not have the educational facilities or ability to give Chaplains that experience before they are expected to serve.  Similarly a Doctor is required to complete medical school, including the first years of residency, before being able to execute their duties in the military.  It's a matter of training and experience more than religious discrimination.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 14, 2014)

medicchick said:


> It's required because everyone in Regiment goes through RASP.  Even the cooks do, and some even go to Ranger School.  There is more taught then just shooting.


Would this be at all analogous to Navy Corpsmen having to go through a modified bootcamp prior to being assigned to a Marine unit?


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

medicchick said:


> There is more taught then just shooting.


Once physical fitness training and requirements are removed from the discussion all that's left to RASP 1 (primarily enlisted) and RASP 2 (Senior Noncommissioned Officers, Officers, and Warrant Officers) is tactical combative movement, small tactical team leading, and combative training.

Cooks,  Chaplain Assistants and any other combat support military occupation do not have the "must refrain from all aggressive action and may not use force to prevent their capture or that of their unit by the enemy" combined with "An officer designated as a chaplain has rank without command" duty hindrances that entangles being a military chaplain performing chaplain duties.  There is a problem with using any "cook" (92G Food Services operations) as a legitimate rationale comparison.

RASP 1 is an 8 week selection course broken down into two phases.  Ranger candidates will learn the basics of what it takes to become a member of an elite fighting force.  Candidates are tested on their mental and physical capabilities, while learning the advanced skills all Rangers are required to know to start their career with the 75th Ranger Regiment.  Phase 1 focuses more on the critical events and skill level 1 tasks and Phase 2 focuses on training in Marksmanship, Breaching, Mobility, and Physical Fitness.

RASP 2 is a selection course for Senior Non-Commissioned Officers, Officers, and Warrant Officer.  Candidates are tested on their physical and mental capabilities while learning the special tactics, techniques and procedures that set the Regiment apart, and learning the expectations of leading and developing young Rangers to be the Regimental leadership of tomorrow.


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## medicchick (Dec 14, 2014)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Would this be at all analogous to Navy Corpsmen having to go through a modified bootcamp prior to being assigned to a Marine unit?


Not sure, RASP is more of a selection process to join the unit.  Medics, grunts, support peeps, everyone goes through it in order to serve in the 75th and wear the tan beret (there may be some exceptions but none off the top of my head).  They all should have been through some sort of basic/boot before they get there.  Others with first hand knowledge can answer further though.


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Would this be at all analogous to Navy Corpsmen having to go through a modified bootcamp prior to being assigned to a Marine unit?


More or Less as it depends on the type of USMC unit being supported and the duties being performed.  It is why the USAF Pararescue Specialty is designated as a combative military occupation and completely severed from being a military medical service occupation or adjunct military medical duty.


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## medicchick (Dec 14, 2014)

Johca said:


> Once physical fitness training and requirements are removed from the discussion all that's left to RASP 1 (primarily enlisted) and RASP 2 (Senior Noncommissioned Officers, Officers, and Warrant Officers) is tactical combative movement, small tactical team leading, and combative training.
> 
> Cooks,  Chaplain Assistants and any other combat support military occupation do not have the "must refrain from all aggressive action and may not use force to prevent their capture or that of their unit by the enemy" combined with "An officer designated as a chaplain has rank without command" duty hindrances that entangles being a military chaplain performing chaplain duties.  No chicks have gone through any RASP 1 or RASP 2 yet, so there is a problem with using any "cook" as legitimate rationale.



No shit no chicks have gone through RASP, there are no females in Regiment.  Regimental cooks are award winning and some of the best, yes all males.

 You want to do the "non combatant" title then how about the medics?  They go through RASP as well yet fall under the same definition you keep putting out there.


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## Il Duce (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm not a Ranger and have not been through RASP so my understanding of what is taught/assessed there and in Ranger School is secondhand - fitness, dismounted tactical movement, patrolling, patrol base operations, squad/platoon tactics, weapons, and demolitions.  While those individual and collective skills may or may not be the primary function of support personnel the fact that each member of the unit is specially selected and possesses a high level of knowledge in the core function of the Rangers - to be the best light infantry unit in the Army - I would think has a number of benefits. 

I worked with the Ranger Regiment as a part of a CTJSOTF in Iraq and was very impressed with their organization, caliber of leader/Ranger, and planning acumen.  They put a great deal of thought and effort into the way they selected members, trained the unit, and organized for operations - the result being I observed Ranger platoons working seamlessly with SEAL teams, a significant accomplishment when you look at the relative ages and training pipelines of those formations.  Bottom line, if the Regiment says someone (like Chaplains) need to go through RASP I will take their word that it's the best and most effective thing to do.


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

medicchick said:


> No shit no chicks have gone through RASP, there are no females in Regiment.  Regimental cooks are award winning and some of the best, yes all males.
> 
> You want to do the "non combatant" title then how about the medics?  They go through RASP as well yet fall under the same definition you keep putting out there.


Yes they do, however, the issue of medic is connected to utilization of a medic will not be as a fire team leader, or a small tactical team squad leader.   Being is such leading position requires command and lowest level of chain of command is the NCO in certain duty positions.  The military chaplain is the "only" appointed commissioned office entangled by utilization limitations imposed by law (Geneva Conventions and Federal Statutes).  I also quickly changed, but not soon enough the "no chicks have gone through RASP" as not only did I quickly realize it was inappropriate but also had no legitimate bearing on the issues.

What does have bearing is there is RASP 1 (E-1 thru E-5) and RASP 2 (Senior NCOs , Officers and Warrant Officers) and which have training, and assessment-and-selection focus differences.

As far as medic goes there are subtle differences differing an enlisted medic from a commissioned officer physician, Nurse, and etc.  However an enlisted medic is in general orientation performing noncombative service unless certain actions are taken by the commander to modify that service.  It is actually legal jargon complicated but even the combat medic supporting operations on the battlefield is still limited in the nature of aggressive action taken to engage the enemy.  The " self-defense or in defense of the wounded and sick in their charge when attacked" is not intentional and deliberate preplanned aggressive action to accomplish a military or tactical objective against enemy forces.


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## Ranger Psych (Dec 14, 2014)

How about this....

*Everyone goes through RASP. Period. it is the gatekeeper, keyholder, and defining thing that someone passes to join the ranks within Ranger Regiment. Everyone goes through it, just like everyone went through RIP/ROP in the past. *
*Ranger Chaplains do not simply administer to the spiritual needs of Rangers.
*
This is not a point of debate or contention, the shared perspective the Ranger Chaplains have through RIP/ROP or now RASP as well as Ranger school allows them to be able to more effectively minister to those who are in the unit. 

Simple question:  If you are religious, how would you be willing to accept the ministrations of a man of faith if he is not willing to step out that aircraft door and put his life into the hands of God, when you are?


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## Johca (Dec 14, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> How about this....
> 
> Simple question:  If you are religious, how would you be willing to accept the ministrations of a man of faith if he is not willing to step out that aircraft door and put his life into the hands of God, when you are?


I was baptized as an infant and got confirmed when about 14-15 years old and subsequently served active duty 23 years.  Not one of the base chaplains or base military chaplains designated to support the unit I was assigned to was aircrew, parachutist, or combat diver qualified and most of them were not of the same faith as me.  This didn't diminish my faith or diminish my willingness to participate in any event (wedding, funeral, baptism) they presided over or to use or refer other to the chaplain for spiritual reason and/or emotional well (grief, post traumatic counseling) being.  Nor did this affect my ability and willingness to perform hazardous duties.  BTW, my three children (grown-up now) were baptized by a military chaplain.

However, I have no personal disagreement with or aversion to "Ranger Chaplains have through RIP/ROP or now RASP as well as Ranger school allows them to be able to more effectively minister to those who are in the unit." Gaining to be more effective is always desirable.


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## x SF med (Dec 15, 2014)

Johca said:


> You do know atheists, excuse me humanists, are demanding for atheist military chaplains?  He or she doesn't need to be a person of god at all.
> 
> Nontheistic service members including atheists, agnostics, humanists, freethinkers, and others identifying as nontheists serve honorably within our nation’s military. Chaplains should support nontheistic service members with the same enthusiasm, resources, and services that they provide for theistic service members. Leaders should not use their position to influence individuals or the chain of command to adopt the leader’s own personal religion. These are minimum standards of conduct to which all service members, especially chaplains and commanders, should adhere. - See more at: http://militaryatheists.org/chaplain/#sthash.lShTtf3u.dpuf
> 
> The Humanist Society, endorsed Oxford-educated religious scholar Jason Heap during 2013 to be the first-ever humanist chaplain in the U.S. Navy.   The US Congress is still debating the legislation that would make it so.   If it becomes so,  who is going to be the site's Vestal Virgins and will there be pictures and videos involved in the screening and selection process?




My post was a joke..... we need a Chaplain, due to all of the heathens ....


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Dec 15, 2014)

x SF med said:


> My post was a joke..... we need a Chaplain, due to all of the heathens ....




http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/i-am-new.18108/#post-283865

I thought there was an active duty chaplain that popped in for a brief moment also...?


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## racing_kitty (Dec 15, 2014)

There was.  I think we scared him off, though.


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## x SF med (Dec 15, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> There was.  I think we scared him off, though.




see my post above, re: heathens.   On to Valhalla!!!


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## Centermass (Dec 15, 2014)

Tell him to start getting use to his PT level of fitness as unsatisfactory....running, sit ups, pull ups, strength and stamina.

Learn the Ranger Creed, memorize it forwards, backwards and everything in between.

He needs to assimilate everything historical that exists from the Modern Day Ranger to pre revolutionary war dates. Not only the events, but the tactics involved and how the strategies worked.

TLP's, PCC's, TTP's, IAD's, Warno's, Op Ords, 7-8 tasks etc. SH 21-76 and 7-8 should become his daily reading material.

He may become a Chaplain, but until he passes ROP (RASP 2) and then, the suck, when he's evaluated, he'll just be another stud. And that's just scratching the surface.

Finally, if there's a model for him to emulate, have him look up Jeff Struecker.

You could also send him over to us. There's a wealth of resources he is free to use there as well.

RLTW


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## Il Duce (Dec 15, 2014)

@Centermass great, thanks!


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## Muppet (Dec 15, 2014)

Centermass said:


> Tell him to start getting use to his PT level of fitness as unsatisfactory....running, sit ups, pull ups, strength and stamina.
> 
> Learn the Ranger Creed, memorize it forwards, backwards and everything in between.
> 
> ...



And I was going to mention Jeff Strueker....

F.M.


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## Ranger Psych (Dec 15, 2014)

Centermass hit it on the nose.

It's one thing to be able to go to any Chaplain for solely Religious related counseling, but when you're talking to a Tabbed and Scroll bearing (possibly stereo scrolls, possibly a CIB depending on prior life) Chaplain in Regiment? He's been through what you have and possibly more, and through that shared strife, sacrifice, and effort will have more applicable experience to derive his counsel, rather than strictly from "the book".


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## Il Duce (Aug 3, 2015)

Received an update from my Chaplain friend today and thought I would share (I PCS'd from the unit back in January).

He went through RASP and was selected by the board for service in the Regiment.  Due to needs of the Army he had to move from there to fill an emergency vacancy at Ft. Bragg but will be attending Ranger school from there with service in the Regiment immediately after (hopefully).

Thought I’d give a rundown of what we did with him and how it worked for those interested.  I’ll reiterate I am not Ranger qualified and have never attended RASP, RIP, or ROP so the plan relied on what intel we could gather second-hand.

Ultimately what we ended up doing for his RASP preparation due to time, perceived weaknesses, and resources was focus on three main lines of effort:

1.  Mission Command.  Thought this was the area he was weakest in due to his background and experience.  Focused on teaching him troop leading procedures (TLP), warning orders (WARNO), and operations orders (OPORD) as quickly and squad/platoon focused as possible.  I took the lead on this one and essentially set up a crawl/walk/jog during office hours over a few weeks.  First we executed a class on each, with reading assignments from the Ranger handbook and 5-0.  Second we went through essentially a TEWT where he would put notes together, then talk me through actions he took on a regular basis but now within the framework of TLPs, or orders.  As an example he went through TLPs, then an order, for some of the races he had organized in Afghanistan.  After that the ‘jog’ phase (run wasn’t possible in the timeline) was he would come in and receive a tactical mission from me in the morning, then would construct a timeline of events he would go through with TLPs and brief me before he went home – then put together an OPORD and brief me the next day.  We focused on major concepts – backwards planning, 5-point contingency plans, delegated planning, and timelines (1/3 – 2/3).

2. PT.  He was already a great athlete and PT stud – great runner, great swimmer – so we focused on ruckmarching and injury prevention.  For this LOE he took the lead with advice from one of our 1SGs who had been an instructor at the RTB.  We tried to make it a team effort with various Soldiers coming in for PT events with the Chaplain to try and smoke him – none were successful.

3. Tactical Skill.  He had never fired a weapon or moved tactically so we tried to build some basic knowledge of individual/Squad movement techniques (IMT) and battle drills.  Two of our NCOs took the task over and conducted some limited training in the BN area but no major FTX or anything like that.  We did some rubber ducky training but never put a live weapon in his hands.  This LOE was probably the most immature and could have been executed much better.  Largely it was familiarization with concepts, the only thing he really learned to do well was IMT.

Result:

Ultimately the board at the end selected him for service in the Regiment so it was a good result.  Obviously his individual character and performance mattered far more than anything we put together for him in preparation.  Based off his feedback (without giving away too much G2 on the course) the major lessons I took away if I’m in a unit where we have a similar situation are:


Start earlier, the earlier the better.


Nothing beats a formal program, an earlier start would have let us get him to the pre-Ranger course which would have been invaluable.


On LOE 1 I should have had him brief more people, and should have grilled him harder in latter phases.  Would have helped prepare him for the board at the end of RASP.


On LOE 2 we should have done more rope climbing and obstacle course work.  Sounded like those were very challenging at the course


On LOE 3, and really all the LOEs, we could have done a better job of showing him something – then coming back a week later unexpectedly to test him on it.  Sounds like learning quickly, rather than knowing things up front, were clear differentiators at the course.  We likely could have prepared him better for that circumstance.


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## DA SWO (Aug 5, 2015)

Congrats for your friend, though I really hope he wasn't using a weapon during RASP.


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## Ranger Psych (Aug 5, 2015)

Just because a Chaplain doesn't carry a weapon doesn't mean they can't shoot them nor are they disallowed access to them.


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