# Navy SEALs, A Beating Death, and Claims Of A Cover Up



## CDG (Dec 17, 2015)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/w...p-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Just finished reading this article.  Some pretty disturbing stuff, if true, about the treatment of villagers and detainees by a portion of SEAL Team 2.


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## DA SWO (Dec 17, 2015)

CDG said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/w...p-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1
> 
> Just finished reading this article.  Some pretty disturbing stuff, if true, about the treatment of villagers and detainees by a portion of SEAL Team 2.


Like why have non SF do an SF mission?


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 17, 2015)

Obviously I cannot speak to the validity of the story in anyway, so I won't waste anyone's time by offering an opinion.

What I will say though, is that I have long felt that the NY Times has a negative bias towards the military, and that this is their 2nd piece (that I am aware of) in 2015 that portrays the SEAL's in a negative light.

Interesting too is that two of the men who wrote the article posted by @CDG , (Nicholas Kulish and Christopher Drew) were also listed as co-authors of the article linked below.

SEAL Team 6: A Secret History of Quiet Killings and Blurred Lines


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 17, 2015)

We ran QRF off and on for Team Two back in 2004-05 in Baghdad, although a bit over the top in arrogance, they were very professional. I never saw any form of mistreatment of detainees by them, and they grabbed a lot of people back then. Their Chief wouldn't allow them to do or get away with such things.


Funny story about a Raven flying into the Babylon Hotel, falling into a LN's yard, LN freaks and tosses the Raven into the Tigris river, we locate it, Team 2 guys come out, hey you guys sit on it, we will be back in the AM to get it. Bullshit! You mofo's are SEALs, that's water, jump and get your shit, we're leaving in 30 min. I don't know if they ever recovered it or not, as we got ambushed about a mile away heading back to the green zone to restage... no shit there I was.


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## Kheenbish (Dec 17, 2015)

So report the mistreatment of detainees by the own local police force, but don't report the sexual abuse of little boys by the people in charge of these same police forces...


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## Grunt (Dec 17, 2015)

It only counts if it fits into their (MSM or political rank) "desired narrative" of events.


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## CDG (Dec 17, 2015)

Kheenbish said:


> So report the mistreatment of detainees by the own local police force, but don't report the sexual abuse of little boys by the people in charge of these same police forces...



There were multiple reports by US Army personnel who worked with/on the same FOB as the SEALs as well.  It wasn't just locals spinning a story.  If that were the case, I would give it much less creedence.  But our own dudes are backing up the claims and saying they saw some very disturbing things.


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## Gunz (Dec 17, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Like why have non SF do an SF mission?


 
Agree. SF's own successful track record has encouraged non-SF planners to try to incorporate non-SF units into the FID/COIN role...like it can be produced on a mass scale. You can't teach the kind of political finesse and tactical sophistication needed in FID/COIN in a 3-week crash course.


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## Gunz (Dec 17, 2015)

My default mode will always fall on the side of the man on the ground. Innocent until proven guilty and fuck the NY Times.


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## AWP (Dec 17, 2015)

So 3 or 4 SEALs participated in abuse and the first O-6 in their chain brushed it aside? The big story is how the command reacted, not the abuse. Every organization has their "10%" and you can't help that until they self-identify. What matters is how you react when things go south. They allegedly killed a man and abused others...that's a big deal, but the greater issue is how the command reacted. You can't ignore the "10%'ers" and you can't stop them until the self-identify. How you react is what matters and it appears their command is the problem.

That's all assuming you can trust the article.

One item to consider is this was during the surge, one that ultimately failed. I think the story underscores what happens when quantity matters more than quality. They are fantastic at a lot of things, but the Teams aren't built for FID.


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## x SF med (Dec 18, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> They are fantastic at a lot of things, but the {SEAL} Teams aren't built for FID.



Exactly.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 18, 2015)

Welllll nice - Daily Mail ran with it - colorful headline too -

U.S. Navy SEALs 'beat and waterboarded Afghan detainees, killing one'


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## policemedic (Dec 18, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Welllll nice - Daily Mail ran with it - colorful headline too -
> 
> U.S. Navy SEALs 'beat and waterboarded Afghan detainees, killing one'



Well, if it's in the Daily Mail...

Fuck the Daily Mail with the rust-laden pizza cutter usually reserved for Pakistan.


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## Gunz (Jan 1, 2016)

Waterboarding was SOP for my counterparts on VC suspects. Tied them to a bench on their backs, stuffed a rag halfway down their throat and poured the water. Men, women, didn't make a difference.


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## Brill (Jan 1, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> There's so much fucked up shit that goes on in war above and beyond "rountine" combat operations. Firefights, ambushes, IED/boobytrap detonations, incoming mortar rounds...that's the _*normal shit*_. Then there's all this madness.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, just felt compelled to write it.



Those of us that know, understand your comment. Those that don't, never will but they don't even realize they don't really have a reference point to even begin to understand.


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## pardus (Jan 1, 2016)

Great post.



Freefalling said:


> So 3 or 4 SEALs participated in abuse and the first O-6 in their chain brushed it aside? The big story is how the command reacted, not the abuse. Every organization has their "10%" and you can't help that until they self-identify. What matters is how you react when things go south. They allegedly killed a man and abused others...that's a big deal, but the greater issue is how the command reacted. You can't ignore the "10%'ers" and you can't stop them until the self-identify. How you react is what matters and it appears their command is the problem.
> 
> That's all assuming you can trust the article.
> 
> One item to consider is this was during the surge, one that ultimately failed. I think the story underscores what happens when quantity matters more than quality. They are fantastic at a lot of things, but the Teams aren't built for FID.



Assuming the story is true, apart from the disturbing legal aspect of this, I think about all of the hard work put in by SF etc... to get this village/area on our side, and then the actions of a few clowns ruins that.


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## Gunz (Jan 1, 2016)

pardus said:


> ...Assuming the story is true, apart from the disturbing legal aspect of this, I think about all of the hard work put in by SF etc... to get this village/area on our side, and then the actions of a few clowns ruins that.


 

It's a house of cards. And one clown is all it takes to fuck it up.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2016)

Boy, who the fuck did the SEAL's piss off at NY Times ?  This is #3 or #4 now.  I'm losing track.

Navy SEALs worry their elite status is being exploited

_Eric Greitens’ bid for governor of Missouri hinges on his experience as a Navy SEAL, which he has chronicled in three books and touts on his campaign website, where he is pictured wearing a combat uniform, holding a rifle. “In the SEALs we learned, ‘there is no prize for second place in a gunfight,’ ” he said recently on Twitter.

Now Greitens, seeking the Republican nomination, finds himself in a battle with some former comrades, who charged in a slickly produced YouTube video that he exaggerated his record and was unduly benefiting from his time in the SEALs. The dispute lays bare a widening rift among SEALs, provoked by what leaders and many in the ranks call rampant commercial and personal exploitation of a brotherhood that prized discretion.
_
This paragraph in particular really takes a shot at them:
_Former SEALs have offered accounts of derring-do, being transgender, SEAL-style yoga, dog-training techniques and even SEAL humor. One author, Matt Bissonnette, earned millions for “No Easy Day,” a firsthand narrative of the Bin Laden raid, but had to forfeit the profits for failing to submit it for Pentagon review of classified information._


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## Kraut783 (Apr 2, 2016)

pretty interesting youtube on Eric Greitens....


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## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2016)

Damn someone put a lot of work into that video about Greitens.  I never heard of him before.

I've got to say though, this looks like a straight up hit piece.  Some of the things they're downplaying are pretty big deals.  I'd like to know more about the drug ring and "war crimes" thing that they kind of glossed over at the beginning.


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## benroliver (Nov 3, 2016)

My grandfather used tell me, "don't buy any of those ******* god damn books"... I used to just laugh but I think I understand what he was getting at lol.


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