# Fragment "drift"



## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

I've been told that fragments left in the body can drift over time. Is this true or do they become trapped in tissue and immovable? Specifically, could a fragment left in because it presents no danger at the time the wounds are treated, drift over the years and interfere with a nerve?

I've had cists form around frgaments that had to be surgically removed, had one done just 3 years ago. Now I'm having weird feelings in my left leg not related to circulation. I had severe trauma to my left foot and multiple frag wounds, left leg, most of which were removed. The smaller ones in deep thigh flesh were ignored. The weird feelings are a squeezing feeling along my whole leg from thigh to foot. Not painful, just unpleasant and strange and I have trouble discribing them to my VA primary care Doc. But there's something "electrical" about the feeling.

The VA has me down for a "nerve conduction test" on that leg late this month. Any thoughts?


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## AWP (Aug 10, 2014)

My grandfather is a Bulge veteran. He had German steel coming out of his leg even a few years ago and the docs won't touch the stuff in his neck. As for the latter I don't know if they started there or moved a little, but they are too close to the nerves and combined with his age, it isn't worth the surgery.


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## 8654Maine (Aug 10, 2014)

Internal foreign bodies (FB) are usually encapsulated by granulation tissue over time, i.e. scarring.

The effect of encapsulation and gravity may move thing over time.

Your symptom of "weird, electrical" feeling radiating down the leg sound like neuropathy, which is abnormal conduction along a nerve resulting in abnormal sensation or pain.

If it is caused by either a foreign body or by the resulting granulation tissue, YOU have to determine the risk vs benefit ratio.  

In other words:  
(1)  Is the sensation/pain caused by the shrapnel or the scarring
(2)  Is the current discomfort worth it to go after the FB with the risk of permanent nerve damage, bleeding or infection.

Just as an aside, most surgeons I know (Trauma surgeons), will say leave it alone, unless it is disfiguring or life/limb threatening.  

Please don't take this as gospel or medical treatment.  It's just what I've read on the interwebz.


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## Chopstick (Aug 10, 2014)

For some fun reading Google "migration of shrapnel fragments" and enjoy.  Since I am nerdy, I found this article rather interesting but you will find a bajillion hits to read.  I think that might keep you busy the rest of Sunday.

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~caslab/site/pubs/papers/nav-shrapnel-removal-2007.pdf

The nerve conduction study can tell your doctors where there may be injury or compression of particular nerves in your body.  Get it done.  Plus, it is fun. (yes Im weird).  But in all seriousness good luck with the diagnosis and treatments.  I know I had the worst pain/numbness in my arm and hand with the disk injury in my neck.  And that was one particular spot.  I cant imagine how nerve injury in multiple sites must feel.


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## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

"Migration"...that was the word I was looking for. Thank you all for your input. I will read up on it today, probably should have googled it weeks ago when it began...but there is a wealth of experienced fragment people here, both receivers and removers so I wanted to tap into you guys. Thanks again.


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## Marauder06 (Aug 10, 2014)

I was trying to evade capture during some training in New Mexico several years ago and ran smack into one of those waist-high barrel cacti.  I got peppered with barbs in both legs and ended up having to use a Multitool to try to pull them out.  Several broke off under the skin, and I had cactus parts getting pushed out of my body (especially my knee) every once in a while for years.  I think I got the last piece out during my last trip to Iraq, something like 2+ years after it got stuck.  It definitely wasn't shrapnel and it wasn't deep at all, but yeah sometimes your body can force foreign objects out.


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## Gunz (Aug 10, 2014)

Marauder06 said:


> I was trying to evade capture during some training in New Mexico several years ago and ran smack into one of those waist-high barrel cacti.  I got peppered with barbs in both legs and ended up having to use a Multitool to try to pull them out.  Several broke off under the skin, and I had cactus parts getting pushed out of my body (especially my knee) every once in a while for years.  I think I got the last piece out during my last trip to Iraq, something like 2+ years after it got stuck.  It definitely wasn't shrapnel and it wasn't deep at all, but yeah sometimes your body can force foreign objects out.


 
Ow. 

I had a piece come out of my face in the shower once...tiny piece...it was wrapped in what looked like a little ball of bread dough. I took a razor blade and opened it and there was a little black dot of metal in the core. But I had been playing with that one for 20 years, in my cheek under my right eye, and I must have forced it out myself.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 10, 2014)

I still have a shard of glass in my left arm 10 years after the fact. All the rest have worked their way out, but for some reason this one won't come out. I mean digging at with pocket knives and the works. I am hoping to get it removed after my next surgery, fucking annoying to be honest.


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## pardus (Aug 10, 2014)

I had a metal plate removed in my jaw years ago, the bone had grown over a portion of the plate making it a complete bitch to remove as the bone made one screw unusable. The Doc used a pair of pliers, put his foot against the chair I was in, had me hold my jaw so he didn't dislocate it and a nurse to hold me in the chair, then pulled and jerked the plate until the bone broke and it all came free! I still have the bone attached to the plate somewhere 

I know several people who've had glass migrate, metal migrate through bone, and IIRC an African porcupine quill will migrate through soft tissue unassisted at a rate of 2.5cm per day


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## Gunz (Aug 11, 2014)

pardus said:


> I had a metal plate removed in my jaw years ago, the bone had grown over a portion of the plate making it a complete bitch to remove as the bone made one screw unusable. The Doc used a pair of pliers, put his foot against the chair I was in, had me hold my jaw so he didn't dislocate it and a nurse to hold me in the chair, then pulled and jerked the plate until the bone broke and it all came free! I still have the bone attached to the plate somewhere
> 
> I know several people who've had glass migrate, metal migrate through bone, and IIRC an African porcupine quill will migrate through soft tissue unassisted at a rate of 2.5cm per day


 
I actually _can_ imagine how painful that was. I went through a similar experience with bone growing over metal rods in my foot having to be extracted with pliers and no anesthetic. Maybe I'm a pussy but on rod #4 I blacked out.


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## Gunz (Aug 11, 2014)

JAB said:


> I still have a shard of glass in my left arm 10 years after the fact. All the rest have worked their way out, but for some reason this one won't come out.


 

If we ever get drunk together I'll take that arm off for free with the Kabar. You don't want it to fester too long. I'm a certified mixologist and I've been through half an EMT-Basic course so you have nothing to fear.


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## Dame (Aug 11, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> If we ever get drunk together I'll take that arm off for free with the Kabar. You don't want it to fester too long. I'm a certified mixologist and I've been through half an EMT-Basic course so you have nothing to fear.


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## AWP (Aug 11, 2014)

Marauder06 said:


> I was trying to evade capture during some training in New Mexico...


 
Better call Saul!


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## Gunz (Aug 12, 2014)

JAB, I'm a little new here to start cracking wise about glass shards and cutting limbs. In retrospect and complete sobriety the comment was a bit over the top.   There's a running gag between me and my Marine buds about my half EMT-B course, my Bloody Mary's and my desire to test out my "surgical skills."



Chopstick said:


> ...The nerve conduction study can tell your doctors where there may be injury or compression of particular nerves in your body.  Get it done.  *Plus, it is fun...*


 
Ma'am...when medical professionals use the word "fun" I get nervous...:-".


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## Chopstick (Aug 12, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> Ma'am...when medical professionals use the word "fun" I get nervous...:-".


  Once you have it done, we can compare notes!


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## Gunz (Aug 26, 2014)

I had the nerve conduction today. I'm trying to decide which was more fun, the electric shocks up and down my leg or the 5" needle they stuck in my muscles and twisted around. The electric cattle prod thing was pretty high on the Fun Meter, at least for the woman administering the test. (She must have been a relative of Chopstick).


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## Chopstick (Aug 26, 2014)

Told you it was fun!


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## Salt USMC (Sep 29, 2014)

I don't have a link to the story, but I remember an article about a WWII vet who took shrapnel in his face during the service.  It was too close to some vital areas to remove, but it also left him unable to speak for about 60 years.  People thought that he had just taken too many shots to the head and had become mute, or something, so nobody thought to look into it.  One day, he woke up to a blood-soaked pillow, with the shrapnel resting right on top.  He was also able to speak again.

I'll try to look for it because that was a really cool story.

EDIT: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/war-hero-alfred-mann-was-left-94206


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