# Ranger to West Point



## Jackflerp (Oct 28, 2015)

Hi guys, I recently got to shadow a cadet at West Point for a day and it really got me interested in becoming an officer. I have wanted to become a Ranger (scrolled, tabbed if time allows) ever since I found out about the Regiment. One of the admissions guys at West Point (Major Dupuis) talked to me about his career and how he ended up at West Point. He served in 3rd Btn and came to West Point right before 9/11. I'm guessing that getting from active duty to USMA hasn't changed much since his time, but I still have some questions. I have searched the forums and online, but I didn't find a useful thread particularly pertaining to the 75th. Is getting accepted to WP any different due to their deployment/training schedules than regular active duty? And how would someone transfer from the Regiment (or any ASOC unit) to USMA*?* I would like to go enlisted for a few years, hopefully passing RASP, and then get a spot at USMA. They currently only have slots for around 85 active duty/reserve soldiers a year, but I am not apposed to the prep academy. The path from enlisted to USMA is still a bit fuzzy to me, but would going straight to the academy be a better idea than going enlisted first? I have heard conflicting statements, but I am looking to hear from someone who has either done what I said above or is knowledgeable about it. And yes, I am aware of being an officer in the Rangers, but being enlisted has interested me for a while. 

TLDR: I want to be a Ranger, then go to West Point. Need advice on path to West Point as a Ranger. 

My main questions are underlined.


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## Viper1 (Oct 28, 2015)

Best bet is to read the admissions website, the FAQ, and ask MAJ Dupuis some more questions.  I believe the age limit was increased slightly due to deployments to allow more prior service folks the opportunity to attend.  From 2000-2005, had to be no older than 23 on Reception Day.

West Point is not an operational unit.  It is a military academy, a college. Your prior duty will be school, earning a Bachelor of Science in a discipline of your choice.  It's not a transfer. You have to get a nomination (command, Congressman, Senator, etc), apply, med screening, PT test, etc.  

Hope is not a method, get it out of your vocabulary.  Reason I say is because it becomes harder to get to school once you delay it a year or two. Getting the slot to USMA as an enlisted Soldier depends on a lot e.g. your performance, your health, the support of your command, staying single without dependents, etc. That's a lot of hope on others which can fail without your control. 

Find out some more information and then take a path.  If you want to enlist, enlist. If you want to go to West Point, then apply.  If you want to enlist and then go to West Point, do that.  List the pros and cons with each, and take to many people to gain perspective.


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## Jackflerp (Oct 28, 2015)

I believe the age cutoff is 23, but age waivers are obtainable if a deployment messes that up. I plan on talking to Major Dupuis again, but wanted perspective from someone outside of admissions. Thanks for the advice.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 28, 2015)

There are plenty of prior Rangers here at the Academy.  Our last Commandant, General Clarke, was a former Regimental commander.

If you want to be an officer, go the officer route.  If you think you can get into West Point now, do it.  You can attempt to earn a slot in the Ranger Regiment after you've demonstrated competence as an officer.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 29, 2015)

This is all great. But let's take a step back for just one second. First of all your chances of getting into Regiment are low, very low. your chances of getting into West Point are also very, very low. I'm not saying you won't. Just that it is extremely unlikely. Why don't you choose one and go for it. Then develop the situation q bit. If you are telling people at Batt you want to go to West Point, I don't think you will be long for the 75th. Kna mean?


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## The Accountant (Oct 29, 2015)

Being somebody that was recruited to go to West Point, and subsequently turned down the opportunity to go. I regret that I didn't take the opportunity when I had it and it will forever haunt me. 

I say if your end game is to go to West Point, do that if you have the opportunity NOW. Don't let it haunt you years from now.


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 29, 2015)

There's no problem with people wanting to go to the point after doing time in Batt, but before you get command recommendation to go do that, you need to be good at Ranger-ing if your gameplan is Batt then the academy. A couple guys I know went that route, although more took the OCS route. Most took the OCS route primarily because they were senior SSG's and already had college, plus their performance was exemplary within the Regiment so they were part of the statistically minuscule portion of 2LT's that have ever worked in the 75th.


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## Jackflerp (Oct 29, 2015)

So I know that these are pretty ambitious and have extremely low chances of working out the way I want but these are the career paths I have looked into, providing I pass their respective selection courses:

1. Enlist with an Option 40 contract after HS, serve in the Regiment for a few years, and with the support of my command, head to WP before I am 23. That is the age limit for those that didn't read my entire post.

2. Go to a regular college, get a degree, then enlist with an 18X contract. I have wanted to be in the Regiment practically since I heard about it, but I started looking more into SF and ODAs, and I think that might be something I could excel at and hopefully enjoy. College would put me past the 20 year age requirement for an 18X contract, and I would have a degree if I choose to go through the OCS route and make it.

3.  Go straight to West Point, graduate and serve in an airborne infantry unit, and then once promoted to Captain put in a packet for SF. 

4. Enlist and become a Ranger, serve for a while, maybe go to SFAS maybe stay in the 75th, get a degree somewhere along there, become an officer and retire after 20 years or until whenever it is my time to get out

What I like about West Point:
Extremely prestigious and respectable school
Looks great on a resume if I get out of the military before 20 years etc.
The experience
The ability to come from one of the best military service academies in the world
The immediate sense of brotherhood and camaraderie you feel the moment you step foot on campus

What I dislike about West Point:
You can't be enlisted afterwards unless you are a total goof*
I'm good at school, but I am not really sure that I love it
It sucks from a day to day standpoint
No guarantee at your job after graduation. Slots are picked by class standing, and I have no idea where i'd be in that list when the time comes. 

*I get that I am still young and have little experience of what life as an enlisted soldier would be like, especially one in a SOF unit. From all of the books I've read and research I've done, it sounds like the enlisted get to do the fun stuff. I want to kick in doors, not pick which one to kick down. And that might change once/if I actually get deployed and worn down. Plus I can go into the military right after high school instead of going to more classes for 4 years. I get that my concept of life as enlisted is probably extremely warped and sounds stupid to the people that have experienced how much it sucks/rocks, but those are just my meager 2 cents. I am a stand out in my JROTC unit, and I have been told I am a great leader (which would mean little in the real military), so I don't know if I'd be too bad of an officer. I guess time will tell.

If this sounded arrogant, I am just trying to be honest with what my ambitions are so anyone reading can get a better sense of what they are. They are huge goals and dreams that might not work out the way I want them to, but these are just what I would like to see happen.


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## x SF med (Oct 30, 2015)

@Jackflerp ...  Do you know the difference between a PFC and a 2LT?


The PFC has already been promoted twice, and realizes he still has a lot to learn.

Should you choose to go to USMA, keep that in the back of your mind, and also realize that your NCOs  can mentor you and train you, or they can just take care of the Platoon while you shoot yourself in the foot.  Read General Colin Powell's Rules for Life...  if you use your search-fu, you can find them.  And remember humility can save you, but don't let yourself be steamrolled. 

2LT is a hard place to be... you are in charge and you really don't know anything yet...  whatcha gonna do PL?


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## Marauder06 (Oct 30, 2015)

If you ever want to be an officer, go to West Point.  Do it first.  If you go to the Academy, you can do you first two years commitment-free.  Although I strongly dislike this COA, you can drop out after your first or second year and enlist or transfer schools with no issues.

West Point has the best resources, the best post-graduation network, and is the most prestigious of all of the commissioning sources.  If you have any ambition at all for being an officer, go to school there.  Have you gone for an in-person visit?


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## Jackflerp (Oct 30, 2015)

@Marauder06 Yes I was able to visit last weekend. I shadowed a plebe for a day.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 31, 2015)

You should have let me know, I would have introduced you to some of the Rangers who are here and you could have heard it straight from them.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 1, 2015)

Are you a cadet or faculty? If I am ever up there anytime soon I will for sure let you know. I shadowed an advanced math class and then a Military Science class at trophy point. A Staff Sergeant was teaching that one I think. We were at Trophy Point playing with radios. I feel bad for you guys with the constant bus loads of foreign tourists.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 1, 2015)

If you actually thought there was any possibility at all that I am a cadet, you and I probably don't need to talk after all.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 1, 2015)

I met quite a few former enlisted there, and I am quite new to SS and hadn't looked at your account, so obviously I would have had no clue.


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## digrar (Nov 1, 2015)

A switched on recruit looking at USMA/Rangers would probably have a look at who they were interacting with (especially one offering the sort of access Mara was) before asking redundant questions. A really switched on recruit would cop to making a fuck up, instead of making excuses.


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## policemedic (Nov 1, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> We were at Trophy Point playing with radios..



I get why you phrased it this way; you're 15 and don't know better.  Now, let's see if you can understand why what you said is actually kind of offensive.


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## medicchick (Nov 2, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> I met quite a few former enlisted there, and I am quite new to SS and hadn't looked at your account, so obviously I would have had no clue.


Little tip.  ALWAYS look at someone profile here before replying.  If it's set to private, say that in your reply so they know you made an effort.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 2, 2015)

medicchick said:


> Little tip.  ALWAYS look at someone profile here before replying.  If it's set to private, say that in your reply so they know you made an effort.


I looked at it as soon as I replied to him. Thanks for the advice.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 2, 2015)

policemedic said:


> I get why you phrased it this way; you're 15 and don't know better.  Now, let's see if you can understand why what you said is actually kind of offensive.


I am sorry that it came off as offensive. We were using radios to talk to other classes, not "playing" with them like I had mentioned. Thank you for correcting me.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 2, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> If you actually thought there was any possibility at all that I am a cadet, you and I probably don't need to talk after all.





digrar said:


> A switched on recruit looking at USMA/Rangers would probably have a look at who they were interacting with (especially one offering the sort of access Mara was) before asking redundant questions. A really switched on recruit would cop to making a fuck up, instead of making excuses.


You're right, I probably should have picked up on the fact that he couldn't have been a cadet, but I didn't. I should have checked his profile, but I didn't.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 2, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> You're right, I probably should have picked up on the fact that he couldn't have been a cadet, but I didn't. I should have checked his profile, but I didn't.



What do you think your chances are of being appointed to a Service Academy?


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## Jackflerp (Nov 2, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> What do you think your chances are of being appointed to a Service Academy?


Honestly I don't know. I don't think I am top of the pack, but I am definitely competitive. I have a 4.8 weighted GPA right now. I'm on track to take above the required classes needed for West Point. I think Annapolis has either exactly or mostly the same required classes. I am pretty good at track and field, and I plan on starting football next fall. As of right now, it looks like I will be the CO of our MCJROTC unit at our school my Senior year, which should help. I am going to do Boys State and will apply for National Honors Society when the application comes. I think you need to be a Sophomore to join that though.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 2, 2015)

And if anyone knows what I can improve upon or do more of to make me more competitive, please let me know.


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## x SF med (Nov 3, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> Are you a cadet or faculty? If I am ever up there anytime soon I will for sure let you know. I shadowed an advanced math class and then a Military Science class at trophy point. A Staff Sergeant was teaching that one I think. We were at Trophy Point* playing with radios*. I feel bad for you guys with the constant bus loads of foreign tourists.



You did not say the bolded part...  did you?



Jackflerp said:


> I met quite a few former enlisted there, and I am quite new to SS and hadn't looked at your account, so obviously I would have had no clue.





Jackflerp said:


> I looked at it as soon as I replied to him. Thanks for the advice.



Look first, always look first.



Jackflerp said:


> I am sorry that it came off as offensive. We were using radios to talk to other classes, not "playing" with them like I had mentioned. Thank you for correcting me.



Shush...  just shush.



Jackflerp said:


> Honestly I don't know. I don't think I am top of the pack, but I am definitely competitive. I have a 4.8 weighted GPA right now. I'm on track to take above the required classes needed for West Point. I think Annapolis has either exactly or mostly the same required classes. I am pretty good at track and field, and I plan on starting football next fall. As of right now, it looks like I will be the CO of our MCJROTC unit at our school my Senior year, which should help. I am going to do Boys State and will apply for National Honors Society when the application comes. I think you need to be a Sophomore to join that though.



shush more... a lot more.



Jackflerp said:


> And if anyone knows what I can improve upon or do more of to make me more competitive, please let me know.



You do know there are whole websites designed to let people know how to be more competitive in getting an appointment to a Service Academy, right?

Young Man...   take the advice given you on multiple threads, and sew your fingers together so you cannot type any more inanities.

You've pissed off a SEAL, an Army 0-5 instructor at USMA, and numerous others so far...  are you that clueless as to what you are doing to any shred of credibility you have remaining?


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## Marauder06 (Nov 4, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> And if anyone knows what I can improve upon or do more of to make me more competitive, please let me know.



OK, since you asked...

As someone who served in multiple SOF assignments directly supporting the Rangers in combat, and as a multi-year USMA instructor, I think you lack the maturity, situational awareness, and judgment to be successful in either the Regiment or at West Point.  

In this thread you come across as arrogant, entitled, shallow, and petty.  You respond poorly to correction and it seems all you want to do is talk about how great you are now (in high school ) and how great you are going to be in the Army.  "Ummm... cool story, bro."  Worst of all, you seem utterly unaware of anyone else around you.  That is a TERRIBLE trait for an officer.

I'm not going to hinder your efforts to get into SOF or USMA in any way.  In fact, in a day or two I will have forgotten all about you.  But at the same time, I'm not going to try to help you anymore.  And I'm not sure many other members here will want to, either.

"Real talk" is hard.  "Big Boy Rules" mean you take responsibility for your actions.  You better get used to both if you want to move in either of the communities you mentioned in your first post.  

You can either learn from this experience and let it motivate you to prove me wrong, or you can keep doing what you're doing.  Personally, I suspect it will be the latter.  Let me know how that works out for you.

Fellow ShadowSpear members, I wash my hands of this one.


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## Jackflerp (Nov 5, 2015)

@Marauder06 I couldn't figure out how to quote just a small portion of what you wrote on this computer, but he asked what I thought my chances are, so I answered them honestly. I'm not trying to undersell myself and where I am at in high school. I'm not a genius, and I struggle in several subjects, but I know what I am capable of. When I said I am "pretty good" at track, that came from other peoples mouths before I repeated it here. I don't remember saying anything along the lines of "I'm going to be great in the Army", or anything that someone could take as that because I am obviously not in the military, so I wouldn't know.

Trying to be humble to point of making yourself look worse than you already are is a stupid thing to do especially when applying to a school like USMA. I'm not bragging by any means here, and I try not to do it as a whole. I didn't say "Haha look at me I have a 4.8 GPA haha everyone else in the universe sucks", I said "I have a 4.8 weighted GPA" because that is what I have. If that is being arrogant and entitled to you, then we are just going to have to disagree. I'm not going to lie about myself when asked those kinds of questions.

Also, you completely missed the first sentence of my OP. You asked me "Have you gone for an in-person visit", when my first sentence literally reads "I recently got to shadow a (C)adet at West Point for a day", so I think that it is a bit irrational when you say that you and I shouldn't speak after all when I ask a dumb question. Yes I get we make mistakes, and mine are especially present in the few threads I've made the mistake of sharing my meaningless opinions on, but it makes you look like you didn't even read my OP. And yes, I see the irony in that last sentence. Adios, Shadow Spear.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> @Marauder06 I couldn't figure out how to quote just a small portion of what you wrote on this computer, but he asked what I thought my chances are, so I answered them honestly. I'm not trying to undersell myself and where I am at in high school. I'm not a genius, and I struggle in several subjects, but I know what I am capable of. When I said I am "pretty good" at track, that came from other peoples mouths before I repeated it here. I don't remember saying anything along the lines of "I'm going to be great in the Army", or anything that someone could take as that because I am obviously not in the military, so I wouldn't know.
> 
> Trying to be humble to point of making yourself look worse than you already are is a stupid thing to do especially when applying to a school like USMA. I'm not bragging by any means here, and I try not to do it as a whole. I didn't say "Haha look at me I have a 4.8 GPA haha everyone else in the universe sucks", I said "I have a 4.8 weighted GPA" because that is what I have. If that is being arrogant and entitled to you, then we are just going to have to disagree. I'm not going to lie about myself when asked those kinds of questions.
> 
> Also, you completely missed the first sentence of my OP. You asked me "Have you gone for an in-person visit", when my first sentence literally reads "I recently got to shadow a (C)adet at West Point for a day", so I think that it is a bit irrational when you say that you and I shouldn't speak after all when I ask a dumb question. *Yes I get we make mistakes*, and mine are especially present in the few threads I've made the mistake of sharing my meaningless opinions on, but it makes you look like you didn't even read my OP. And yes, I see the irony in that last sentence. *Adios, Shadow Spear*.



Point one in red; "we all make mistakes". Ture enough, you have not learned from yours and they continue.
Point two in red: "Adios, Shadow Spear"  This might be a good thing for a while.
Point three : Like all the threads you have been making comments on, this one is going sideways and has become inane. Time to put it to bed.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 5, 2015)

Are we really arguing with a 16 year old on the Internet? Is that what we want to do. Honestly @Jackflerp you will probably quit any selection process you attend, you are smart so you understand probability. You will probably fail. The odds are completely stacked against you. And you seem hard to like, which makes it even more difficult. 

To be honest none of us care if you make it, you are here to use our site for info, then you will be gone, never returning the favor. You certainly won't be back when you wash out, like 80-90% of guys do.


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## AWP (Nov 5, 2015)

I'm only upset I wasn't the one to lock the thread.


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## Totentanz (Nov 8, 2015)

Jackflerp said:


> Adios, Shadow Spear.


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