# Can I still attend Airborne and RASP after getting a metal rod in my leg?



## HardBodyLG (Apr 6, 2010)

I recently broke my leg and because the bone started drifting I have no choice but to get a steel rod. This lady at the Doctors office told me I could never jump out of an airplane. F her though. So can I still get a Option 40 contract or even an Airborne contract? Any way around it? Thanks for any help.


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## AWP (Apr 6, 2010)

HardBodyLG said:


> I recently broke my leg and because the bone started drifting I have no choice but to get a steel rod. This lady at the Doctors office told me I could never jump out of an airplane. F her though. So can I still get a Option 40 contract or even an Airborne contract? Any way around it? Thanks for any help.


 
A recruiter would know.

Personally, I know numerous skydivers that jump with hardware like that.....but skydiving isn't Airborne. I had a guy in my old unit who busted a femur on a jump ('roids are awesome) and once the docs added titanium to his leg he was dropped from status. Even IF you could get a waiver I wouldn't go near it.


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## pardus (Apr 6, 2010)

HardBodyLG said:


> I recently broke my leg and because the bone started drifting I have no choice but to get a steel rod. This lady at the Doctors office told me I could never jump out of an airplane. F her though. So can I still get a Option 40 contract or even an Airborne contract? Any way around it? Thanks for any help.


 
You cannot enlist period with metal in your body.

That is what I was told by recruiters when I was enlisting.


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## HardBodyLG (Apr 6, 2010)

Recruiter said its up to the doctors at MEPs.


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## 8'Duece (Apr 6, 2010)

I had dislocated my left shoulder several times.  Stayed on jump status.  Eventually had surgery, it didn't take, dislocated the shoulder again, and again. Still did not go off jump status.  Had a second surgery, they put metal in my shoulder.  After rehab time I got back in the rig and jumped again, and again, and again.  Went to JM school eventually. 

That was back when the Army was still the Army.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 6, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> That was back when the Army was still the Army.


 
Back in the real Army, when BCT was hard and DS's will stab you with bayonets, Airborne school was 6 weeks long and required jumping from a plane with out a parachute and in order to get a Ranger tab you had to kill someone with an E tool? You mean those days right?   ;)


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## Muppet (Apr 6, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> Back in the real Army, when BCT was hard and DS's will stab you with bayonets, Airborne school was 6 weeks long and required jumping from a plane with out a parachute and in order to get a Ranger tab you had to kill someone with an E tool? You mean those days right?   ;)


 
LOL. Those were the days. When you could tea bag your roommate and get away with it all the while tying a cherry in a sleeping bag and hanging him out the second floor barracks window while passing along an asian pros. to the guys while on CQ, right?

F.M.


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## 8'Duece (Apr 6, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> Back in the real Army, when BCT was hard and DS's will stab you with bayonets, Airborne school was 6 weeks long and required jumping from a plane with out a parachute and in order to get a Ranger tab you had to kill someone with an E tool? You mean those days right?   ;)



Yep, and to be SF you had to go out into the Fayettville and come back with two sets of ears from a civillian.


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## pardus (Apr 6, 2010)

I did this FYI...

This is a National Guard recruiter...



> Please wait for a operator to respond. The average time is 0min 12sec. You are number 1 in the Queue.
> 
> You are now chatting with 'Specialist Doyle'
> 
> ...


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## metalmom (Apr 6, 2010)

ewww Deuce-that sounds perdy Guki!
boo koo dinky dow(sp):)

Wish you luck!


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## Muppet (Apr 6, 2010)

metalmom said:


> ewww Deuce-that sounds perdy Guki!
> boo koo dinky dow(sp):)
> 
> Wish you luck!


 
Thats our Duece, dinky dow! Luv you bro, mean it.

F.M.


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## pardus (Apr 6, 2010)

OK you fuckers, keep the thread on track.


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## metalmom (Apr 6, 2010)

Pardus-you rock!!!!! lol
So cool!!
from another thread-I too,had dreams of being a doorgunner. Life expectancy was not great for that in Nam-but what the hell-I admire those men tenfold!!


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## DA SWO (Apr 6, 2010)

Where do you live?  I sk because TX, RI (and one other state) have NG Airborne Companies.  They might be a little more willing to let you go Airborne.


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## pardus (Apr 6, 2010)

SOWT said:


> Where do you live?  I sk because TX, RI (and one other state) have NG Airborne Companies.  They might be a little more willing to let you go Airborne.


 
IIRC he is in NY, an easy drive to RI, they want 11Bs...

p.s. the 'other' state is AK.


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## oldrecon (Apr 6, 2010)

They Just wanted you to take out all those gay ass ear rings and body bars and the such!!!


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## Muppet (Apr 6, 2010)

pardus said:


> OK you fuckers, keep the thread on track.


 
Sorry brother. I don't know what comes over me sometimes.:doh:

F.M.


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## Muppet (Apr 7, 2010)

Come to think of it, I was injured on a jump, on Sicily D.Z. and shattered my Lt. ankle requiring reconstructive surgery. I jumped after that but they had to remove the screws first. That probably doesn't help, so sorry for the useless info.:doh:

F.M.


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## 8'Duece (Apr 7, 2010)

Firemedic said:


> Come to think of it, I was injured on a jump, on Sicily D.Z. and shattered my Lt. ankle requiring reconstructive surgery. I jumped after that but they had to remove the screws first. That probably doesn't help, so sorry for the useless info.:doh:
> 
> F.M.



Silly fuker !  How'd ya manage that brilliant PLF ?


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## Muppet (Apr 8, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> Silly fuker !  How'd ya manage that brilliant PLF ?


 
I was a cherry and reached on a 18knot wind jump. BOOM Broken!

F.M.


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## AWP (Apr 8, 2010)

Getting creative with one's PLF technique is a bad idea.

Signed,
Freefalling's L5 Vertebra


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## Muppet (Apr 8, 2010)

OUCH. L-5 must have hurt. 

F.M.


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## AWP (Apr 8, 2010)

Firemedic said:


> OUCH. L-5 must have hurt.
> 
> F.M.


 
Hairline fracture that will never heal. I have a nice audible POP doing situps now. As some on here can attest, I've had days where my right leg was one big shooting pain.


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## pardus (Apr 8, 2010)

Freefalling said:


> Hairline fracture that will never heal.


 
Any explanation for that?


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## AWP (Apr 8, 2010)

pardus said:


> Any explanation for that?


 
It is on the process (I think that's the medical term) on the right side of my L5. If you take an oblique x-ray you can see it (I think the description once used was 'a Scottie dog with a broken neck' to describe the shape). It could heal if I had surgery or a body cast or something dumb like that, but two chiros and a an ortho all pretty much said the same thing. More trouble to fix it than to leave it be even though it causes me some problems from time-to-time.


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## Muppet (Apr 9, 2010)

I take it you still jump, as I would if I could?

F.M.


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## AWP (Apr 9, 2010)

Firemedic said:


> I take it you still jump, as I would if I could?
> 
> F.M.


 
I made another dozen or so jumps with -1B canopies and some 375-400 civilian freefalls after the injury. I'd still jump in a civilian capacity, but I'd become a fanatic about physical conditioning if I wore a uniform and were on status again. I've always perceived mil jumping to provide me with a higher likelihood of serious injury and civvie jumping as providing a higher likelihood of death.


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## Muppet (Apr 9, 2010)

I was jumping an MC1-1B when I got hurt and jumped another 43 after I healed before I got out. I did some hollywoods on Sat. afternoons. I agree with the injury v/s. death thing, but I never jumped civilian though.

F.M.


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## AWP (Apr 10, 2010)

Firemedic said:


> I was jumping an MC1-1B when I got hurt and jumped another 43 after I healed before I got out. I did some hollywoods on Sat. afternoons. I agree with the injury v/s. death thing, but I never jumped civilian though.
> 
> F.M.


 
I'd rather jump a T-10 than a -1B.

Consider that skydiving sees an average of around 30+ fatalities a year in the US (2009 was a record year with only 16 fatalities in the US though world-wide the count remains around 65), I have the perception that I was more likely to die doing it. While accidents happen in skydiving, I was far more likely to find a paratrooper who had injured themselves than a skydiver.


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## HoosierAnnie (Dec 30, 2012)

OK Guys, I have read this and the other threads about losing jump status if there be hardware in yer body. The best I can come up with is the definate possibility of a sorta, potential maybe. While it isn't critical to my current plot line, I am using the possibility of a Batt boy losing jump if he as to have hardware put into his femur (thigh bone). I pride myself on being as accurate as I possibly can be on all stuff Mil. Is it at least believeable that he might lose jump if he has to have the hardware???


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## goon175 (Dec 30, 2012)

Here is the deal. Enlisting, period, is a shot in the dark. You WILL require a medical waiver, and they are not easy to come by these days. With what you have going on, it is VERY unlikely, at best, that you will even be able to enlist. Should you be cleared to enlist, i.e. your med waiver is approved, then you WILL NOT get Opt. 4 or 40, or any MOS that requires airborne (18x, 92R), as MEPCOM will not allow anyone with a med waiver to get an airborne physical at MEPS, and you cannot get an MOS or option that comes with airborne with out the airborne physical. I hate to break it to you, but have you been over to the "what's your back up plan" thread yet?


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## HoosierAnnie (Dec 31, 2012)

Goon - a) I said nothing about someone who is enlisting, this is an already established Batt boy CHARACTER. b) I asked if it was realistic, c) I don't need a backup plan as this is a fictional character I'm talking about ex- "plot line" and d) I'm a girl, I couldn't get in Batt if I wanted

(knew I shouldn't have asked anyway . . .goes back to writing cave)


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## goon175 (Dec 31, 2012)

Hoosier Annie! I was referring to the OP, I'm hard headed but not THAT hard headed! haha

Not to mention, I would never address you that way!


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## 8654Maine (Dec 31, 2012)

Note to self:  Never, ever upset an RN.

They'll use the biggest foley and no lube.

Goon, I see pain in your future.


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## HoosierAnnie (Dec 31, 2012)

No guys, seriously, I really don't hold grudges over something like this. I was just asking an honest question so that my book wont be like the stoopid ones where female writes dont "get" the military way.

Now that we've smoozed and made up, can ya give me the straight scoop????


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## goon175 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, if a Ranger has a rod in his leg, but is still fully functional, I don't know why they would take him off jump status. Look at SFC Kap, he has a friggin' prosthetic and is still on jump status. Now, if the hard ware makes it impossible for him to function in ways needed to jump, then of course he would be taken off of jump status. I don't think hardware is a definite no-go though, it depends on how well one recovers. If one of the 18D's runnin' around here want to weigh in, I'm sure they could give a more definitive account of what the process is in deciding if someone stays on jump status or not.


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## 275ANGER! (Jan 2, 2013)

One of the guys in my platoon had a rod placed in his femur due to a horrible jump accident. He only completed a water jump after his accident and I want to say that by choice he decided not to jump anymore. He was fully operational and kicking in doors after a couple months of intense physical therapy, the gym was his sanctuary.


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 3, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Well, if a Ranger has a rod in his leg, but is still fully functional, I don't know why they would take him off jump status...


 
You're right, because accession and retention standards for service are different. Qualified SM's, if determined to be able to meet their duty requirements, are given much more leeway to remain in their current MOS. Hence SOF personnel can continue in their duties with prosthetics, but a new recruit is automatically ineligible to enlist.

However, for the OP, a rod in the femur may not REQUIRE a waiver. Note the following:

AR 40-501- Ch. 2-11: (2) Current retained hardware that is symptomatic, interferes with proper wearing of protective equipment or
military uniform, and/or is subject to easy trauma, does not meet the standard (V53.7). Retained hardware (733.99)
(including plates, pins, rods, wires, or screws used for fixation) is not disqualifying if fractures are healed, ligaments
are stable, there is no pain, and it is not subject to easy trauma.

The problem is the definition of 'easy trauma,' and that's where the specifics of your history and the information presented to the MEPS physician makes a huge difference.

For Airborne/Ranger duty the following is most relevant:

The causes of medical unfitness for initial selection for Airborne training, Ranger training, Special Forces, and Reconnaissance and Surveillance Leaders Course (RSLC) training are all the causes listed in chapter 2, plus all the causes listed in paragraphs 5–3 and 5–4... (9) Retained hardware that is integral to maintaining fixation or stability, or presents a risk to mobility or a risk of further injury by its presence.

This is a much higher standard.

Based on regulations and spending days wrangling paper getting guys to these schools, I would say the OP's chances for enlisting aren't very bad, but the chances of going Airborne are slim; to RASP, none.

For the current member of Ranger Regiment, it really depends on his recovery, but given the normal history of femoral rods, he is less likely to lose jump status. The wiggle room for current members of Ranger Regiment is far larger, because it's a good idea to keep anyone who can do the job in their current position.


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## Rabid Badger (Jan 3, 2013)

DoctorDoom said:


> Based on regulations and spending days wrangling paper getting guys to these schools, I would say the OP's chances for enlisting aren't very bad, but the chances of going Airborne are slim; to RASP, none.


 
You laid it out beautifully, Doc.

As to the quote, this depends entirely on your ethical standards and just how bad do you really want it, or to even try Airborne School, RASP, or even SFAS.

*Example 1:* A young recruit that walks into the doc's office and says "I really want to join the service and I'd really like to go to Airborne School, *BUT* I have this rod in my leg". Good idea to state it like this???.....ummmmm 

*Example 2:* A young recruit walks in to the doc and says "I want to be an *Airborne Ranger*". Any lies there? Nope. Positive can-do attitude that says I can do anything I set my mind to, rod or no.... yup.

Presentation makes a difference.


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## goon175 (Jan 3, 2013)

Doc, if every physician contracted at the MEPS followed the regulation to a 'T' like you, and used common sense like you, there would be a lot more good folks in the service right now. My assessment of him having a slim chance of getting in to the service and next to no chance of getting any airborne related slots is based off of what I have seen of the MEPS medical personnel. There is much to be desired in many cases.


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## 0699 (Jan 3, 2013)

RB said:


> You laid it out beautifully, Doc.


 
Hell, it even made sense to me...


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 4, 2013)

goon175 said:


> ... based off of what I have seen of the MEPS medical personnel. There is much to be desired in many cases.


 
Man, you are totally right on that too. Nearly every day I come across stuff from the MEPS physicians that just makes me sigh deeply and think about my happy place. And most military physicians don't even know what 40-501 IS, much less what it says; never mind grasping the intent of the regulations.

Didn't mean to come across like I was disputing you by the way. I only wanted to convey that reasonable approaches are possible, but like you said, totally dependent on the caliber of the doctor at MEPS, which is often quite low.


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 4, 2013)

RB said:


> As to the quote, this depends entirely on your ethical standards and just how bad do you really want it, or to even try Airborne School, RASP, or even SFAS.
> 
> *Example 1:* A young recruit that walks into the doc's office and says "I really want to join the service and I'd really like to go to Airborne School, *BUT* I have this rod in my leg". Good idea to state it like this???.....ummmmm
> 
> ...


 
True RB, the presentation is key; the problem lies with the MEPS doctors who sometimes do the easy thing ("You're records say you have a rod, no soup for you!") instead of working with the recruit. It's hard to fault them usually, since they are processing a large number of soldiers and there is the "needs of the Army" to consider. There's no incentive for a MEPS physician to run the risk of sending a guy who might get hurt to Airborne/RASP, unless you're an idealist like me.  Most of the MEPS guys are old civilians who just want to move the meat and collect their pay. So they see the "risk of injury" as a catch-all phrase and make it into a hard and fast rule, when it shouldn't be thus.

I think the best approach is to get in, and then work with a good Surgeon. I have a highly qualified and motivated E-5 who had a tibial rod, and thus was disqualified automatically from SFAS, despite the fact that this guy would be a good candidate. I reviewed his records, got him to see an orthopedic surgeon whom I spoke to in order to explain the situation, he's getting the rod removed, and hopefully the packet will be approved. But it also took him 2 years to end up assigned to my unit and for me to be able to work with him; and I also benefitted from knowing a little bit about what's required, from knowing and speaking a little with men like you, in order to be able to get a basic sense of whether this NCO was worth the effort; last thing I want to do is send broke shitbags to SFAS and waste everyone's time. All this just happened to be luck. Getting to the training and unit that one desires is always more likely once in service than as a recruit off the street. Unfortunately, too few doctors are knowledgable about the regs or how to apply them, and it becomes luck of the draw. In their defense, many doctors don't need to know; we have enough to fill our time without reading boring AR's. 

Now if only I could get all Army doctors in relevant slots to actually read AR 40-501... I feel like half our guys don't even know how to write a good profile.


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm half tempted to start a consolidated thread for all AR 40-501 related questions...


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## 8654Maine (Jan 4, 2013)

DoctorDoom said:


> I'm half tempted to start a consolidated thread for all AR 40-501 related questions...


 
Please do.  It would be helpful to aspirants and physicians, alike.


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 4, 2013)

I can give it a shot, but would need to set some ground rules so that I don't get overwhelmed with repetitive questions. I also need to make clear that timeliness may not be consistent as duty requirements come first. Some of you also know that I have a tendency to be an asshole, so if I get a bit draconian about enforcing my rules, it needs to be accepted, within reason of course.

If that's okay with the moderators and admin's, I would be happy to do a test run. Which forum do you guys think would be appropriate?


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## 8654Maine (Jan 4, 2013)

Surgeon...a-hole?
Nah.........HaHaHaHa.
Look forward to your post.


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## DoctorDoom (Jan 4, 2013)

8654Maine said:


> Surgeon...a-hole?
> Nah.........HaHaHaHa.


 
I know, kind of redundant.


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## Scotth (Jan 4, 2013)

A thread that doesn't affect me but still a great read with all kinds of no bullshit good advice.


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## Rabid Badger (Jan 4, 2013)

DoctorDoom said:


> ... But it also took him 2 years to end up assigned to my unit and for me to be able to work with him; and I also benefitted from knowing a little bit about what's required, from knowing and speaking a little with men like you, in order to be able to get a basic sense of whether this NCO was worth the effort; last thing I want to do is send broke shitbags to SFAS and waste everyone's time.


 
There will always be that "one" that you have a sense for and that you spend the extra time with, with the knowledge that they are worth your time and will go far.



DoctorDoom said:


> All this just happened to be luck.


 
Doc, Luck had nothing to do with your interaction with this young stud.


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## x SF med (Jan 5, 2013)

8654Maine said:


> Surgeon...a-hole?
> Nah.........HaHaHaHa.
> Look forward to your post.


 
You will be added to ........................... the 'Rist'.


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