# :-o



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 20, 2016)

I


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## Marine0311 (Oct 20, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I'm looking to buy a .357 Magnum hand gun, mag of revolver. I am leaning towards a revolver because of the smaller size and CCW reasons. I'd like to keep the cost down to a reasonable amount. Any thoughts?




I am not a fanew of revolvers. I would go with a mag or look at a Glock .45 GAP.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 20, 2016)

S&W Model 19, 2 1/2 barrel (blued)

S&W Model 66, 2 1/2 barrel (stainless)

I will throw this one out there....haven't owned one, but shot one and thought it was awesome: Chiappa Rhino


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 20, 2016)

[QUOTE


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## Marine0311 (Oct 20, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Thanks, J. Marines know weapons, and I know you are right. I do like the .45 round, and I love my Glock. This will likely wind up being something my wife would carry, and the simplicity of a wheel gun will have advantages for her. Plus she can practice with .38 ammo to start.



For her look at the G lock 17 9mm. It is small. Even smaller is a g lock subcompact ,45.

Train with a mag and you'll fine.


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 20, 2016)

.


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## Totentanz (Oct 20, 2016)

Is pocket carry a consideration?  IMO, the Ruger SP101 fits the hand well, points naturally, and has a little bit more weight..making the 357 less painful to shoot than a J-frame, but also effectively ruling out carrying it in the pocket (but leaving in play other options such as IWB/OWB carry).  If you're looking at compact/snub 357's I'd take a look at that option, along with @Kraut783's S&W suggestions.

Just my two cents, and where I'd start looking myself if I were to go down that path.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm not a big fan of snub revolvers, needs to have at least a 4 inch barrel to get the full effect of magnum ballistics. IMHO.

Big fan of S&W 586/686. S&W Model 10 with 38+P is a winner as well.

S&W and Ruger offer retired military discounts as well.


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## Grunt (Oct 20, 2016)

I have a S&W Model 66 2 1/2 inch. The baby kills on one end and wounds on the other, but it is faithful.

It's a great buy and will last several lifetimes if you choose to purchase that one. It is a great "get off of me" pistol.


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## Polar Bear (Oct 20, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> For her look at the G lock 17 9mm. It is small. Even smaller is a g lock subcompact ,45.
> 
> Train with a mag and you'll fine.


G17? Small? That's the full size. G17, G19, G26 largest to smallest in 9 mm. 

@Red Flag 1 I have no idea on your size or your hand size. Go to a range that rents. I love Glocks but they are not for everyone. Look at S &W, Springfield XD, or Glock. All are out of the box shooters. Think about how often you want to shoot it. Of decent ammo 9 mm $350 for 1000, .357 $450. If shit hits the fan what are you going to find 9 mm or .357? And for god sakes don't buy a GAP


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## Grunt (Oct 20, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> G17? Small? That's the full size. G17, G19, G26 largest to smallest in 9 mm.



They have the G43 now which is a little single stack 9mm. I have one...like it a lot.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 20, 2016)

Agoge said:


> I have a S&W Model 66 2 1/2 inch. The baby kills on one end and wounds on the other, but it is faithful.
> 
> It's a great buy and will last several lifetimes if you choose to purchase that one. It is a great "get off of me" pistol.



The good thing about the .357 revolver...you can always put various degrees of .38 in it.... +p  +P+...etc.


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## Polar Bear (Oct 20, 2016)

Agoge said:


> They have the G43 now which is a little single stack 9mm. I have one...like it a lot.


Forgot about this years new births.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 20, 2016)

Some may scoff at me for recommending Taurus - but I like their revolvers.

I've carried this Tracker for years as a backup while deer hunting.  Those grips make it very comfortable to fire.

Taurus Tracker 627SS6 | .357 Magnum 7 Rounds Matte Stainless


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## Marine0311 (Oct 21, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> G17? Small? That's the full size. G17, G19, G26 largest to smallest in 9 mm.
> 
> @Red Flag 1 I have no idea on your size or your hand size. Go to a range that rents. I love Glocks but they are not for everyone. Look at S &W, Springfield XD, or Glock. All are out of the box shooters. Think about how often you want to shoot it. Of decent ammo 9 mm $350 for 1000, .357 $450. If shit hits the fan what are you going to find 9 mm or .357? And for god sakes don't buy a GAP



I would say small to me. I own a 19. Size will vary based upon one's hand size so when I held a 17 it was small to me. Perhaps I should have explained further.


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## Blizzard (Oct 21, 2016)

If I were looking for a conceal-carry semi-auto (as opposed to the wheel gun originally suggested) that my wife could use, I'd probably pick up a HK P2000SK (essentially the USP v2.0) with the LEM trigger and extended magazine in 9mm.  To me,  it's a very attractive compact package that's wicked accurate and reliable.  With 9mm, there is plenty of stopping power without going to P+ and follow on shot accuracy.  As far as reliability, they're like the Energizer bunnies - they just keep going and going.  Of course, the only thing more reliable would be a wheel gun...but that brings us full circle, sts.  So, that said, if revolver and .357 are still absolute musts in your book, I'd consider the Ruger SP101.


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## Gunz (Oct 21, 2016)

@Red Flag 1

J, have you considered the Ruger LCR 357/38? This is mine:












It's a five-shot wheelgun and you can get 5-shot speed loaders. Very light weight, good ergonomics.

Also, if you decide to go auto, Springfield Armory makes a nice 1911 GI Champion with a 4" Barrel.







I carried a stainless Ruger Speed Six 357 snubbie in a Bianchi shoulder rig for 20 years. I love wheel guns but gave them up as EDCs some years ago and now carry either the Champion or the full-size SA mil spec version.


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 21, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> Forgot about this years new births.
> 
> View attachment 16918


Excellent chart!


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 23, 2016)

.


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## Snake (Oct 25, 2016)

There's always a Desert Eagle


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## Gunz (Oct 25, 2016)

And the S&W 500...

That's one hell of a hogleg right there.


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 25, 2016)

y.


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## Gunz (Oct 26, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> @Ocoka One. What kind of rig are you using for your Ruger? I'm guessing a paddle, and that is about how I would carry.



I use the cheap Uncle Mike's holster in the picture and just pull my shirt down over it. But the gun will fit in your pocket. 

I agree with @Diamondback 2/2 's opinion of snubbies and .357 is a pretty hot load for this small framed, light revolver...but with .38 it's manageable. And, really, for the kind of close action you'd typically encounter in a SD situation, a snub-nosed .38 is fine if you're proficient. And you shouldn't have to use the Jack Ruby method.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 7, 2016)

h.


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## Totentanz (Nov 7, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I'm going to be looking at the Glock 32, and 33 pretty soon. I like the extra punch that you get with the .357 Magnum round.



Just FYSA (not sure if I'm giving you info you already have), the Glock 32 and 33 are chambered in 357 Sig, not 357 magnum.

The cliff notes on 357 Sig is if you take a 40 S&W cartridge, and neck it down to accept 9mm bullets it allows for a faster-traveling 9mm projectile.  Almost all 357 Sig handguns (at least the ones I'm aware of) share magazine compatibility with 40 S&W, so you can change chamberings with a simple barrel change.

It's not a bad round if that's the route you want to go; but it's not 357 mag, if that's specifically what you're looking for.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 7, 2016)

[Q-


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 7, 2016)

.357 sig has a pretty good snap of muzzle flip. Great round, but if you have arthritis,  or any issues with the hands or wrists, you may want to try it out before you invest.

I've broken several bones in my dominant hand, its to the point it's painful for me to shoot anything bigger than 9mm more than 10-15 rds.

Same can be said for the smaller pistols, my wife's Glock 26, although 9mm, will iritate my hand after 2-3 mags.

Just things to consider before you start dropping money on guns, and end up with something that didn't meet the expectations.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 7, 2016)

!


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## Etype (Nov 14, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> I am not a fan of revolvers.


Strong agree.

Caveat, when revolvers stop working (which is much more often than people think), they are harder (more expensive) to fix.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 14, 2016)

le.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 14, 2016)

My personal experience with revolvers is they work fine until you start customizing them or when they wear out.

Cylinder lock up should be the first thing you always check. If you are having more than a slight movement in the cylinder with hammer down or full cock. You have a lock up issue. If the cylinder is not setting the chamber on the barrel, sluggish or poor alignment, you have a timing issue. Both are stupid dangerous and require inspection by a gun smith, to see if repairable or if the revolver is unservicible. If you have doubts or a smith tells you it's unservicible,  do not fire it again...period. That's how you lose fingers.

That said, I have a S&W model 10, that I got from my dad 22 years ago, it's an old police issue .38spc, that has thousands of rounds through it and still has amazing lock up and has never failed me.

My $.02


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 14, 2016)

.


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## Cabbage Head (Dec 5, 2016)

I carry a S&W MP 360 as a back up gun.  Nice little shooter.  Has a tritium big dot front sight.  Put on different grips from Eagle Grips.  Brutal shooter with 357 rounds.  Definitely go with lower grain rounds.  Makes it more comfortable.  Still brutal to shoot....


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## policemedic (Dec 6, 2016)

Nice choice.  I carried a Chief's Special on my ankle for years until my old shop transitioned to semi-autos.  Right now, I'm very happy with a Glock 43 in that role.


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## 0699 (Dec 6, 2016)

policemedic said:


> Nice choice.  I carried a Chief's Special *on my ankle* for years until my old shop transitioned to semi-autos.  Right now, I'm very happy with a Glock 43 in that role.


Ankle holster?  I figured at your age the balls would get in the way down there...


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## policemedic (Dec 6, 2016)

0699 said:


> Ankle holster?  I figured at your age the balls would get in the way down there...



They do clank against the gun....


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## DC (Dec 9, 2016)

Jus snapped up a Glock 36. Love the fourfive


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 4, 2017)




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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 4, 2017)

Nice pistola!


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## Gunz (Apr 4, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I settled on this. An S&W Model 637, .38 Cal Sp. It was owned by a neighbor's wife who thought it was too loud, and the recoil was just "vicious". I tried her with a .22 Cal, and she had trouble with the recoil of that too. The asking price was just too good to let it pass. Only 15 rounds fired from this little beauty.
> 
> View attachment 18423



Nice snubbie.


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 4, 2017)




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## Gunz (Apr 4, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Given the selling price new and what I paid for it, each round knocked off $4.60, and I got the rest of the ammo too. She really did not like this handgun



You'll like poppin off those .38s. Happiness is a new gun...even happier if you get a deal on it.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 5, 2017)

.357 Sig is a fine round - Underwood Ammunition makes 125 grain JHP (I think bonded) that produce near-identical results as a .357 Magnum. The differences are as fine as frog hair. Throw that in with 13 rounds in a compact frame and you're cooler than cool-breeze-Malone...

I recently purchased a Glock 23 and am purchasing a nice aftermarket barrel to throw into it for the .357 sig conversion. KKM makes really great shit and produce fine results. A lot of people discuss pistol caliber as a deterring factor for recoil but really I would consider frame size and weight the most important factors. My little seven year old girl/4ft terrorist can bang-out a .357 Magnum on a six inch Colt Python - she's not doing the same thing on a snub-nose. Interestingly, I find my little Glock 43 the snappiest pistol I shoot to be included in an arsenal of .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .357 SIG and .45 ACP.

Another interesting idea if you're really into 45s is to get a Glock 21 that can have the same barrel drop-in idea for 10mm.

10mm is a nasty fucking round - do a youtube of 180 grain Speer gold dots in 10mm and you'll be thoroughly in love - looking at a wound-channel radius of almost 2 inches (initial to mid-cavity) is absolutely fucking insane and 17 inches of penetration with what looks-like 120% expansion (some minor fragments came apart and started to cut the gel in different directions).

Hands down the best guy no-longer doing ballistics analysis on Gel composite: TNOutdoors9

the thing most interesting about a 45 is the pressure to get the round off is relatively low pressure, the higher the grain you get however the rougher the "snap" will be in that cartridge in particular - I have oddly noticed that all other calibers perform best and most effective in the lower tier of grain availability

9mm - 124 Grain +P
40 S&W - 165 Grain
.357 Sig - 125 Grain
45 ACP - 230 Grain (this really stands out to me, I don't really understand why it performs better - it just does)
10mm - 180 Grain

Hope it helps,

H/A


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## Gunz (Apr 5, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> .
> _*A lot of people *_*discuss pistol caliber as a deterring factor for recoil but really I would consider frame size and weight the most important factors.*
> 
> H/A





I agree with you here. Some frames for .357 are just not up to the job, and I would put my Ruger LCR as one as well as some larger frame snubbies; the Ruger Speed Six I carried for some 20 years was similar in frame to @Red Flag 1 's new stainless S&W and hitting anything with .357 was a real challenge. In fact I kept it loaded with .38 at all times.

Speaking of recoil, the craziest thing I've shot in recent years was the S&W 500. Just way too much of a good thing.


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## 81FO (Apr 7, 2017)

Not that it is relavant to the discussion, but .357 Sig, 140 gr. FMJ work on Hogs...

Had my P226, but had the .357 barrel in, and for some reason my .40 S&W barrel wasn't in the case. So stopped at local shop to pick up some FMJ. Heaviest they had was Sellier & Bellot in 140 gr., so thought what the hell...

I will try to dig up the pics of the one I shot with .357 Sig & post here.


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## 81FO (Apr 7, 2017)

10 mm is an excellent round IMO.

As an aside I have transitioned away from .44 Mag to 10 mm (Sig P220) for a back-up gun when hunting Black Bear.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 7, 2017)

No doubt 10mm is an awesome round, like 357 sig, but the reality of it, is that none of the federal government agencies are using it.... I wonder why? Probably the same reason that the FBI has moved to 9mm as a standard issue round.

I can break things down barney style as I have many times before, but the honesty of it all is... That bullshit has been settled and I'm tired of repeating myself. Google your butt off, and read the studies,  maybe look at it objectively, without a personal opinion.  Maybe listen to the people who actually have a clue, or maybe just load your 5 shot 500S&W and take on that retard with a 15 Rd 9mm and see what happens...

Idk... someone else probably does!

ETA: I'm not trying to start a debate, just don't understand the caliber debate end of thing's.  Belly guns and whatnot.


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## 81FO (Apr 7, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> No doubt 10mm is an awesome round, like 357 sig, but the reality of it, is that none of the federal government agencies are using it.... I wonder why? Probably the same reason that the FBI has moved to 9mm as a standard issue round.
> 
> I can break things down barney style as I have many times before, but the honesty of it all is... That bullshit has been settled and I'm tired of repeating myself. Google your butt off, and read the studies,  maybe look at it objectively, without a personal opinion.  Maybe listen to the people who actually have a clue, or maybe just load your 5 shot 500S&W and take on that retard with a 15 Rd 9mm and see what happens...
> 
> ...




@Diamondback 2/2, I too have been both apart of and spectater to the caliber debate. Typically I abstain from the debate, but in this case... the context of my post was in regards to "non-humans".
I agree with what I think your post implies- 9mm being adequate / effective for human threats, due to more rounds carried, better accuracy due to control and supply & price of ammo.

For me I prefer to use the best caliber for the expected application. In an institutional application i.e. LE , Sec. & Mil. , comminality of caliber is necessary for simplicity of logistics. In my little world I select the caliber that fits best for the AO I will be in. Admittedly 9mm & .40 S&W are the two calibers that I utilize or carry the most.

Thing is, keep in mind the context of my two previous posts...

.357 Sig was something I had, as stated, and due to logistical reasons I went with it. Being familiar with the rounds ballistics, etc... I felt it would be adequate for that application and the outcome was satisfactory.

My choice for now carrying a Sig P220 chambered in 10mm is inline with your reasoning, simply put, more rounds. My previous sidearm carried when bear hunting was my Father-in-law's Ruger Redhawk chambered in .44 Mag. With modern loads available today 10mm is a logical choice.

As for 9mm, it is a no go for Bear or Hog.... IMO


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 7, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> No doubt 10mm is an awesome round, like 357 sig, but the reality of it, is that none of the federal government agencies are using it.... I wonder why? Probably the same reason that the FBI has moved to 9mm as a standard issue round.
> 
> I can break things down barney style as I have many times before, but the honesty of it all is... That bullshit has been settled and I'm tired of repeating myself. Google your butt off, and read the studies,  maybe look at it objectively, without a personal opinion.  Maybe listen to the people who actually have a clue, or maybe just load your 5 shot 500S&W and take on that retard with a 15 Rd 9mm and see what happens...
> 
> ...




You don't need to break down anything, its not really that complicated of an approach.

Shooter preference, shooter preference.... SHOOTER PREFERENCE.

9mm, 40 S&W, and definitely .357sig will provide a wonderful level of hydrostatic shock to a blood filled target. We can speak on ballistics all day until we're blue in the face and discuss capacity...

Truthfully, between the three options ^ you're looking at either 15 round mags in a Glock 19 or 13 round mags in a Glock 23/32 - really not that much of a difference here. I'm also moving to California so its 10 round mags no matter what...

I'm a speer gold dot type, a Remington golden saber type, a federal HST type and a federal aluminum for training type. That's it... I'm now an underwood ammunition type who like the big dogs mentioned previously, laser IR scans their ammunition for packing discrepancies. I consider the fact that 40 S&W and .357 sig is a very tightly packaged ammunition. Hence why there is no such thing as +P or +P +P  ammunition in those calibers due to SAMMI specifications.

Lets get to the meat and potatoes here though.

9mm is by far, a very effective round. Quoting modern day 9mm ammunition versus earlier versions is a night and day difference. There is no doubt in my mind that a near perfect round in 9mm is the Speer Gold Dot +P 124 grain jacketed hollowpoint which produces nothing short of amazing results. I have compared said results to the results of nearly every ammunition type and grain weight in 9mm - the 124 grain +P usually gives the shooter the best initial cavity stretch/blast-radius, followed by 14+ inches of penetration and in speer's case - perfect expansion and weight retention.

.40 S&W however, trumps those results in 165 grain loads using: you guessed it - motherfucking speer gold dot or federal HST (Take your pick).

Wanna know who beat .40 S&W and 9mm types in speer and federal?

.357 SIG in either Underwood Ammunition or Remington Golden Saber @ 125 grains absolutely, positively destroyed those results with 1500+ FPS and 700lbs of force. It fucking wrecked absolute havoc on the same media the others were tested on and was absolutely devastating. 700 fucking lbs of force is 700 fucking lbs of force hombre. What else? .357 Sig shoots flat AF, its case dimensions/shape all but guarantee a perfect feed/chambering and personally, I like the feel shooting it. People that say they can't handle shooting this concern me.

(I did some research and found that I was incorrect in citing that LE Agencies are probably not using Hollow Points - turns out, only the military is fucking stupid AF in this case)

9mm is cheaper to field, a lot cheaper to use for all the quals and *reloading is a lot less dangerous to the weapon system than 40 s&w and .357 SIG*. Those pressures are really not as forgiving in the later calibers as they are in 9mm, despite all three being near identical PSI, the grainular increase & round setting even at the 100ths of the wrong direction can double the pressure.

Money is the deciding factor - reloading reduces cost for quals and shit, and once that is removed and factory fresh ammo is required for the other two calibers due to risk of damaging pistols and officers they went back to 9mm. Especially now that 9mm can produce "good enough" results.

The law enforcement example is a monetary decision and nothing else homie.


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## Grunt (Apr 7, 2017)

I don't know of any LE department in my entire state that is using ball ammo. In fact, I have never met a LEO that uses ball ammo for duty ammo and I have met a lot of them in 30 years.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 7, 2017)

Agoge said:


> I don't know of any LE department in my entire state that is using ball ammo. In fact, I have never met a LEO that uses ball ammo for duty ammo and I have met a lot of them in 30 years.



Yeah I just corrected that after fact checking myself. You typed this as I was fixing my shit but I'd suggest you re-read the bottom because I actually made a pretty valid point in place of that.


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## Grunt (Apr 7, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> Yeah I just corrected that after fact checking myself. You typed this as I was fixing my shit but I'd suggest you re-read the bottom because I actually made a pretty valid point in place of that.



I can certainly agree with it being a monetary issue. We went from 9mm to .45 to .40 back to 9mm. We have taken the journey and now come back full-circle. Personally, I like my 9mm the best. I can shoot them all equally as good, but, I find myself liking my 9mm best of all. Like you said, personal preference plays a big part in it for personal weapons.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 7, 2017)

I think when its not quite as definitive or astoundingly obvious - any agency is going to go with the cheapest/most-efficient means possible.

You're not equipping 4 dudes, you're equipping up to a few hundred on a city/town budget. If you could reload reliably with .40 S&W or .357 SIG you'd probably see plenty of agencies leaving it as is because frankly - you get a really nice round in .40 S&W and most certainly .357 SIG in modern day ammunition.

9mm ammunition now days will absolutely get the job done. It is definitely a good round to field to the masses and I think most agencies would be silly to try and go for anything else IMHO. The cost efficiency, longevity, and effectiveness all point to the 9mm - if we talk about best ballistics though, you can jerk off to the 9mm all you want BUT

Higher grains functioning at the same speed or better will always rule in favor of the larger round. This is more manageable and functional for a citizen operating on their own budget. It works for them, not for all - and it does make a difference. Shooter preference trumps all.

I have 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 - I shoot 9mm the most but am wonderfully efficient with all my shit. If I'm carrying its my Glock 43 9mm - in my bag is either the .357 SIG or a .45 though.

Guns are quite literally, all over my house.

Anyone that argues for magazine capacity however over two rounds clearly forgot the concept of tac-reloads or the fact that a battle weapon will always be a rifle. Which are also, quite literally, all over my house.


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## Grunt (Apr 7, 2017)

I think a lot of people find it easier to claim that a larger caliber or more rounds is the key because of less-than-stellar shooting ability.

Truth be told, it's all about "shot placement." I have worked as many homicides from small caliber weapons as I have the larger. 

SHOT PLACEMENT is the key!


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 7, 2017)

that .357 SIG had me at hello though...

6-700 lbs of force at 1500+ fps was love at first sight.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 7, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> You don't need to break down anything, its not really that complicated of an approach.
> 
> Shooter preference, shooter preference.... SHOOTER PREFERENCE.
> 
> ...



Not going to debate it with you as I said I've been here and done that too many times. Several studies have proven that there is virtually no difference between modern (i.e. modern JHP's such HST, Winchester bonded and Speer Gold Dot) pistol calibers.

FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division ⋆ LooseRounds.com

So no, the reason for LE going back to 9mm is not based on saving money alone. It's actually based on science and engineering, and the ability of to control recoil, etc, etc, etc, and guess what, very little cost difference in modern defensive/duty ammunition when it comes to LE.

Absolutely, personal preferences! If you want more recoil with the same internal balistic effects, by all means go for it. 

Oh and from the "experts" just in case you thought I was just full of shit...

M4C Newsletter & Larry Vickers: .45 vs 9mm; The debate is over

Anyways, if your going to argue with science, the FBI studies, and some of the most well know trainers/firearms expert's in the industry...well then I've got nothing else to say.

Sorry to hear you're going to be dealing with California and their nutty ass laws over there. Sucks...


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 7, 2017)

.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 10, 2017)

I read that article and the other, seems logical. A good takeaway here that I am gathering is that if it's not over 2000 FPS then it isn't worth arguing over - having never shot anything with a handgun besides a dog (Afghanistan) I was pretty convinced on caliber takeaway's through ballistics gel testing. It would seem that such a coned and narrow perspective ignored what some of the trauma surgeons remarked about cavity wound channels - these days they all look the same.

At that point logic would really argue for the 9mm:

Shot placement, capacity, and successive shots all favor the 9mm with none of the disadvantages of the other calibers.

Good resources, cool thread. Glad I read it.

H/A


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## Gunz (Apr 10, 2017)

I look at 9mm as the default round, a good all around caliber suitable for most LE purposes and a sensible round for EDC. Personally, my EDC is a Springfield Armory Milspec 1911, but that's personal preference and not based on studies or opinions. The bottom line is, I'm fucking good with the 1911 so that's what I'm gonna use.


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## policemedic (Apr 10, 2017)

I always say shoot the biggest gun you can shoot well and accurately. I used to carry a H&K HK45 at work, but policy changed and we issued Glock 17s. We have the option to carry any other Glock we like (might go for the 34 for the sight radius).

I don't feel undergunned with the 9mm.  If I do my part, the round will do its job. And I like shooting free ammo. 

That said, I still prefer a 1911 off-duty for a combination of big hole, slim package and excellent trigger.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 10, 2017)

Recently I was watching a documentary about the classic .45 Single Action Army.  I think I want one of those, here is real life snippet of the weapon in use.
Notice the smooth action and the "one shot one kill" damage these rounds do.


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## 81FO (Apr 15, 2017)

@Red Flag 1, the topic got off of your initial post... just wanted to add this because from a "rural" perspective the .357 Magnum is very popular in & around my home range. Albeit in the configuration pictured below--


Smith & Wesson Model M&P R8 .357 Magnum 5" Barrel w/ Rail, SA/DA




Winchester Model 94 Trails End .357 Magnum 20" Octagon Barrel Walnut Tang Safety


One of my neighbors carries the above when he is out riding around checking his livestock / land. Another has a Rossi 94 in .357 Mag and Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Mag. If I can catch up with them I'll post some real world pictures instead of stock photos.

In recent years the .357 Magnum has seen a resurgence in the market hence the reason many manufacturers are producing rifle / carbines in that caliber.
6 Manufacturers Selling Lever-Action Rifles
It is adequate for hunting and home defense, and what many of my neighbors are switching to. The One-cartridge Hobby: .357 Magnum
Some of it would be based in nostalgia, but the bulk is based on experience or familiarity with the platform. The .357 Mag is a fast enough round for taking predators and terminal ballistics make it adequate for taking game i.e. whitetail deer. Plus the AR & AK don't fit in traditional saddle scabbards...


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 15, 2017)

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