# Leading Millenials in the Military



## CDG (May 30, 2017)

Just read this article in Small Wars Journal, and thought it was well-written, and applicable.  It's something every leader has to deal with these days, and the answer can't be "yell all the time and bitch about millenials".

Leading Millennials in the Military | Small Wars Journal


----------



## Topkick (May 30, 2017)

Interesting article. I was an Infantry company 1SG and didn't find 
millennials lazier than my own generation. I did find them more willing to question authority and express their personal values and views but I think that's a reflection of the times. Generally, I think this generation is taught and allowed to question everything and that carries over into the military. Good or bad, is what it is.


----------



## Grunt (May 30, 2017)

I hate titles for groupings. They cause everyone who is allegedly a "member" of that group to take on the characteristics of said group.

I simply go off of the individuals actions...then, I name them accordingly....

With that said, it was a good article!


----------



## Muppet (May 30, 2017)

Agoge said:


> I hate titles for groupings. They cause everyone who is allegedly a "member" of that group to take on the characteristics of said group.
> 
> I simply go off of the individuals actions...then, I name them accordingly....
> 
> With that said, it was a good article!



This is true. I have been a paramedic field training preceptor for may years now. I have been getting the young guns in, many are lazy, don't seek out additional info or play the victim when something is done improperly. Occasionally though, I get one kid that is shit hot, has their shit squared away and impresses me. I had one girl, an E.M.T. that just finished R.N. school, 22 years old but very bright, funny and not a whiny bitch. She will talk shit on her own generation on how they suck. LOL. Good kid.

M.


----------



## Devildoc (May 31, 2017)

Agoge said:


> I hate titles for groupings. They cause everyone who is allegedly a "member" of that group to take on the characteristics of said group.
> 
> I simply go off of the individuals actions...then, I name them accordingly....
> 
> With that said, it was a good article!



Like it or lump it, most of the generational groupings have been pretty well validated in research.  Of course, it's all statistics and thrown on a bell curve, and there are always outliers.

When I start bitching about millennials in the military  I have to stop and remind myself they have done the lion's share of the fighting.  Millennials in the non-military sector?  Game on.


----------



## TLDR20 (May 31, 2017)

I personally think the millennial generation is great. I think that the boomers and whatever group grew up in the 80's is who is the worst. 80's era military guys are a close second. 

The 80's people had kids in the early to mid 90's, were helicopter parents, started and continued the every kid gets a trophy bullshit, then heap their bitching on the generation they raised... that is just me though.


----------



## Gunz (May 31, 2017)

I've got three, born in 90, 93 and 96...Moe, Larry and Curly. But they've turned out to be good guys, (and very entertaining to be around. :wall:) I've been very impressed with their friends: smart, athletic, highly motivated...granted my exposure to millennials is not a broad cross-section. Most of these kids are patriotic, pro-military, competitive and I'd have to say _fairly_ conservative, although there are exceptions.

Of them, I don't know of any "whiny bitches" but we've certainly seen examples of those through media sources. And my youngest reports that there are a fair number of those kinds on campus.


----------



## DocIllinois (May 31, 2017)

I was a 'raised in the 80s' kid (Gen X) and pretty sure I turned out ok.  All I need is a 20 hr. work week, a Nintendo NES, and for the establishment to stop making me conform.   

I commanded mostly Millennials in an Infantry unit and found that they were indeed willing to question things.  They responded very well to leadership who established a strong unit culture and who clearly communicated intent, though.


----------



## Grunt (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I personally think the millennial generation is great. I think that the boomers and whatever group grew up in the 80's is who is the worst. 80's era military guys are a close second.
> 
> The 80's people had kids in the early to mid 90's, were helicopter parents, started and continued the every kid gets a trophy bullshit, then heap their bitching on the generation they raised... that is just me though.



I fit every timeline you have described and am exactly the opposite of what you said -- 180 degrees opposite -- as well as my son. 

There are lazy, non-hacking tools in every generation. To say one is the worst is non-sense. There is no "worse."


----------



## CDG (May 31, 2017)

This stuff always happens.  Like the article said, the ancient Greek philosophers thought the written word was going to fuck up civilization.  Each generation always thinks the one before it was a bunch of dinosaurs who are unprepared for the modern world, and that the new generation is too entitled and doesn't want to work for anything. Pretty soon the older millenials will start bitching about the "Post-Millenials" or whatever the next term du jour is.


----------



## Muppet (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I personally think the millennial generation is great. I think that the boomers and whatever group grew up in the 80's is who is the worst. 80's era military guys are a close second.
> 
> The 80's people had kids in the early to mid 90's, were helicopter parents, started and continued the every kid gets a trophy bullshit, then heap their bitching on the generation they raised... that is just me though.



I was born in 76, grew up in 80's, graduated high school in 94, went into service. I don't recall seeing the trophy thing going on then, certainly, not in my house. Pop would have murdered me.

M.


----------



## Grunt (May 31, 2017)

Muppet said:


> I was born in 76, grew up in 80's, graduated high school in 94, went into service. I don't recall seeing the trophy thing going on then, certainly, not in my house. Pop would have murdered me.
> 
> M.



Yep...if we didn't win...we didn't get anything! There was no trophy for second place. Some of the most honorable human beings I have ever known were the men that served in the military with me and their kids.  

With that said, some of the laziest I have ever known were there as well. Humanity will never change...there are doers and those that want everything done for them while they reap the benefits.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 31, 2017)

The way people describe "millenials" sounds pretty much like every MI unit I've ever been in.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (May 31, 2017)

Everything being said about these Millenials, was said about generation X. We were told we were lazy, because we road school buses and didn't have to work part time jobs at age 5, or whatever the fuck people would come up with. I am sure each generation goes through it.

I've met some pretty shitty people from all generations. The worst are the progressive, communist, libtard, baby boomer types. Mainly the women, ones, with their short hair cut, small lense glasses and crazy eyes. Balding, gray beard, pussified husband in tow, with white socks and Jesus sandels on. Those fucking people have something fucking wrong with them.


----------



## Muppet (May 31, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Everything being said about these Millenials, was said about generation X. We were told we were lazy, because we road school buses and didn't have to work part time jobs at age 5, or whatever the fuck people would come up with. I am sure each generation goes through it.
> 
> I've met some pretty shitty people from all generations. The worst are the progressive, communist, libtard, baby boomer types. Mainly the women, ones, with their short hair cut, small lense glasses and crazy eyes. Balding, gray beard, pussified husband in tow, with white socks and Jesus sandels on. Those fucking people have something fucking wrong with them.



You complete me.....

M.


----------



## Muppet (May 31, 2017)

Agoge said:


> Yep...if we didn't win...we didn't get anything! There was no trophy for second place. Some of the most honorable human beings I have ever known were the men that served in the military with me and their kids.
> 
> With that said, some of the laziest I have ever known were there as well. Humanity will never change...there are doers and those that want everything done for them while they reap the benefits.



My pop was a former Drill Sgt., after a tour in Nam, prior to be being hatched. When I went into high school in 1990, I was enrolled in JROTC. Pop gave me an option. If I fucked the pooch, I could take the grounding or take P.T. / smoke drills. So, I chose the P.T., since I was JROTC, figured I would get swoll. Oh, and how I was right. I fucked the pooch, I did smoke drills, paid my pennants and was let loose again while my cunt sister was grounded. Pop also told me, never start a fight but finish it. If I came home, bruised and did not win, he would fucking kill me.

M.


----------



## DA SWO (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I personally think the millennial generation is great. I think that the boomers and whatever group grew up in the 80's is who is the worst. 80's era military guys are a close second.
> 
> The 80's people had kids in the early to mid 90's, were helicopter parents, started and continued the every kid gets a trophy bullshit, then heap their bitching on the generation they raised... that is just me though.



What about the 80's military don't you like?
I'm a boomer and my wife is gen X.
I don't think the current generation is more whiny than any other generation, they just have social media to make their rants public.


----------



## Topkick (May 31, 2017)

I am both an 80s HS grad and an 80s military dude. I am also a 90s and y2k soldier. You can't deny the differences in leading the generations but its partly due to change in military standards and culture. As a young trooper I still had to hang my BDU s dress right dress and could only use military issue furniture in my room. NCOs could and would walk in my room and tighten my shot group any time they wasn't getting enough respect at home. You didn't question it. You just said "yes sergeant" and then you moved out to draw fire.

You didn't fraternize. Now, I see Joe and Sarge, and even the Cap'n kickin it together at the club. Actually I saw the club system integrate the ranks too.

Yes, this is a " back in the day" story. But you can't compare generations without these stories. I saw the changes over 23 years, some good and some bad. Then again, I am a proud dinosaur.


----------



## TLDR20 (May 31, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> What about the 80's military don't you like?
> I'm a boomer and my wife is gen X.
> I don't think the current generation is more whiny than any other generation, they just have social media to make their rants public.



To me they are the "never deployed, life in garrison, everything was harder back in the day folks".  You probably don't fit the mold. There are many, many who do. Me and @amlove21 both came to a similar conclusion independently about guys like that. 

@Muppet you missed my whole point. I said the people from the 80's had kids, those kids are the every kid gets a trophy kids. They are also the ones who don't understand vaccines, and think gluten gives them herpes...

All this is pretty much just me bullshitting though. I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.


----------



## Marine0311 (May 31, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I am both an 80s HS grad and an 80s military dude. I am also a 90s and y2k soldier. You can't deny the differences in leading the generations but its partly due to change in military standards and culture. As a young trooper I still had to hang my BDU s dress right dress and could only use military issue furniture in my room. NCOs could and would walk in my room and tighten my shot group any time they wasn't getting enough respect at home. You didn't question it. You just said "yes sergeant" and then you moved out to draw fire.
> 
> You didn't fraternize. Now, I see Joe and Sarge, and even the Cap'n kickin it together at the club. Actually I saw the club system integrate the ranks too.
> 
> Yes, this is a " back in the day" story. But you can't compare generations without these stories. I saw the changes over 23 years, some good and some bad. Then again, I am a proud dinosaur.



Back when Jesus was an NCO


----------



## Topkick (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> To me they are the "never deployed, life in garrison, everything was harder back in the day folks".  You probably don't fit the mold. There are many, many who do. Me and @amlove21 both came to a similar conclusion independently about guys like that.
> 
> @Muppet you missed my whole point. I said the people from the 80's had kids, those kids are the every kid gets a trophy kids. They are also the ones who don't understand vaccines, and think gluten gives them herpes...
> 
> All this is pretty much just me bullshitting though. I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.




Some deployed. Grenada, Panama, and many other Central and South American countries. While not getting engaged, it wasn't always rainbows and unicorns in those cold ass German winters either. It wasn't all life in garrison. Also, I don't think it was harder but it was different.


----------



## amlove21 (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> To me they are the "never deployed, life in garrison, everything was harder back in the day folks".  You probably don't fit the mold. There are many, many who do. Me and @amlove21 both came to a similar conclusion independently about guys like that.
> 
> @Muppet you missed my whole point. I said the people from the 80's had kids, those kids are the every kid gets a trophy kids. They are also the ones who don't understand vaccines, and think gluten gives them herpes...
> 
> All this is pretty much just me bullshitting though. I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.


Agree with @TLDR20 on this, we have had a couple conversations about it. In the end, the arguments are just silly. 

Speaking as a dude that has close contact with this age group day in day out- and I would argue the archetype and most alpha, aggressive millenials out there- there really aren't that many differences. The challenges aren't that great. The biggest problem comes from the "old guard" bitching about the "new kids" instead of helping those new guys and gals find their way. 

I don't have much in common with guys that retired before 2001, and the guys going through school now aren't going to have a lot in common with me in 20 years. But I care about the mission and I care about the career field enough to get over the instagram posts and twitter rants and dumb ass social media involvement. With intrusive guidance, of course.


----------



## Gunz (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.



Well yeah. My dad and his friends were all WW2 vets and they all thought the baby boomers were a bunch of fucking whiny pussies. Goddam right it's stupid.


----------



## Muppet (May 31, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> To me they are the "never deployed, life in garrison, everything was harder back in the day folks".  You probably don't fit the mold. There are many, many who do. Me and @amlove21 both came to a similar conclusion independently about guys like that.
> 
> @Muppet you missed my whole point. I said the people from the 80's had kids, those kids are the every kid gets a trophy kids. They are also the ones who don't understand vaccines, and think gluten gives them herpes...
> 
> All this is pretty much just me bullshitting though. I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.



My mistake bro. Mis-read...And agreed.

M.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 1, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> All this is pretty much just me bullshitting though. I love to have these generational arguments because I think they are fucking stupid.



All of these are subjective judgments, agreed.  There are other criteria which mark generational boundaries as generalities that have been validated; to name one, the use of and understanding technology.  There's a whole library of boring literature on how to teach, lead, and manage the different generations, especially since very few people go to one employer and stay there until retirement.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 1, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> All of these are subjective judgments, agreed.  There are other criteria which mark generational boundaries as generalities that have been validated; to name one, the use of and understanding technology.  There's a whole library of boring literature on how to teach, lead, and manage the different generations, especially since very few people go to one employer and stay there until retirement.



Sure. That I get. That is researched, and based in objective data. Saying "these kids are lazy" and  "these whiners all think they deserve a trophy" are not things that make a conversation productive. These are things that make whoever is being described defensive. Just look at my original post and the responses. A couple of "not me" responses. That is all these generalizations really garner in response.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 1, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Sure. That I get. That is researched, and based in objective data. Saying "these kids are lazy" and  "these whiners all think they deserve a trophy" are not things that make a conversation productive. These are things that make whoever is being described defensive. Just look at my original post and the responses. A couple of "not me" responses. That is all these generalizations really garner in response.



No doubt; I totally agree.  I am just trying to sway some thinking to the other end of the spectrum because some people do believe there is nothing but soft, subjective, behavior-based "definitions" to generations.  I agree with your assessment.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 1, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Saying "these kids are lazy" and "these whiners all think they deserve a trophy" are not things that make a conversation productive.



Agreed. This is what I have been trying to convey in my posts, but TLDR20 said it better. As someone who has led soldiers in three decades, I didn't see a whole generation of lazy, whiners. There where individual lazy, whiners in the ranks in all three of those decades. There where always soldiers who wanted trophies, ie an award for doing their job. The only major differences I witnessed I believe where cause and effect of cultural change within the Army. I always considered the technological abilities of the younger generation a force multiplier. I agree that discussion and study of leadership is always productive, as long as it is not simply an argument.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 1, 2017)

Agree on the non-deployed aspect, but one reason was force structure.  We were "deployed in-place" all over Europe and the Pacific.
The real ops tempo started in Aug 1990, and never let up.


----------



## ShadowSpear (Jun 1, 2017)

I'd say there's a positive difference between millennials and millennials who have joined the military.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 1, 2017)

Well you don't have to be biblical to understand you can't judge a person without self evaluation. I will doubt, my kids will be accused of being lazy, unproductive, or unmoral. Unless they are put into a generational pool...


----------

