# Army Extends Basic Training



## Boondocksaint375 (Nov 5, 2007)

*They said it is because of attrition....but seriously...you have to be pretty ate up to not make it (at least when I went through).  
*

*Army Extends Basic Training*

 	Monday November 5, 2007
 	The Army is extending the length of its basic training from nine weeks to ten weeks.

A pilot 10-week program began on Nov. 2 and will run through mid-March. The Army will then revert to it's nine week program, before instituting the 10-week program permanently in October 2008, after next summer's basic training surge. The extra week will consist of discretionary time to allow drill sergeants to provide additional training in areas where recruits have shown weaknesses, according to Army officials. *The Army hopes the additional time will reduce basic training attrition rates.*

http://usmilitary.about.com/b/2007/11/05/army-extends-basic-training.htm


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## The91Bravo (Nov 5, 2007)

I just cannot see it.  The Drills are already singing to the trainees, and helping them write letters back to mommy, it is not as tough as it used to be.

In the sidebar of that article, there was this one.. laughed my ass off..:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/basictraining.htm


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## 104TN (Nov 5, 2007)

9 weeks is dragged out to begin with.


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## MADMIKE175 (Nov 5, 2007)

If they really want to reduce attrition by adding time...then they should make it 13 weeks, everyone gets an extra mandatory 5 weeks Infantry training!


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## rv808 (Nov 5, 2007)

They don't need to make it longer, it needs to be tougher.

Ways it can be done:

No cell phones, no buddy-buddy with the recruits, no joking, no fun no nothing.  Just 10 weeks of suck.


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## pardus (Nov 5, 2007)

When I did my basic it was 10 weeks, they increased it to 12 weeks, everyone is trained as an Infanteer in basic.
I think its a great base for any soldier. :2c:


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## 104TN (Nov 5, 2007)

BCT is meant to provide a basic level of soldierization. As it fails to do that and all the real learning is done at the Company anyway, I say we ship 'em straight through.


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## pardus (Nov 5, 2007)

If it fails then the system needs to be fixed, basic is there for a reason, if its not living up to expectations it needs to be changed it so it does.   :2c:


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## 104TN (Nov 5, 2007)

The only thing basic did for me was acclimate me to the Army system of hurry up and wait. Everything I learned in Advanced training (tactically speaking) was thrown out the window as soon as I got to unit.


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## pardus (Nov 5, 2007)

Yeah, understood.
Just a different culture I guess.


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## 104TN (Nov 5, 2007)

I guess what I was getting at is that while I know the Army has come a long way in how it conducts initial entry training in the last few years (convoy ops, react to fires, etc.), I just can't _imagine_ them making that shit longer. There's just so much time when you're not doing shit to begin with.


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## pardus (Nov 5, 2007)

My feet never touched the ground for 10 weeks.

I went back years later as an NCO to check up on some guys on basic who were joining my unit, I was shocked at the ill discipline there, I wanted to punch the duty NCO for his slack pussy-assed running of the barracks, they made him an officer.......


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## 104TN (Nov 5, 2007)

No worries. The line has always policed itself and always will. ;)


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## MADMIKE175 (Nov 6, 2007)

rick said:


> The only thing basic did for me was acclimate me to the Army system of hurry up and wait. Everything I learned in Advanced training (tactically speaking) was thrown out the window as soon as I got to unit.



That will always be the case, even changing from unit to unit. Regardless of that, units need a baseline to work from. 

Maybe you're just too much of a stud and didn't need the tactical training.

Personally I think they should follow the Marine Corp example - longer and fucking tougher. Everyone is a infantrymen - period.


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## 104TN (Nov 6, 2007)

MADMIKE175 said:


> Maybe you're just too much of a stud and didn't need the tactical training.



lol. Not at all. 

But I think it makes more sense to have new recruits spend more time learning the basics initially and then concentrating on SOP specific stuff where they'll actually do it.

Why teach someone two different ways to do something when they'll only use one?

If every soldier could go through EIB at the end of OSUT and have been provided the instruction needed to pass, that'd be awesome.


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## 104TN (Nov 6, 2007)

MADMIKE175 said:


> Regardless of that, units need a baseline to work from.
> ...
> 
> Personally I think they should follow the Marine Corp example - longer and fucking tougher. Everyone is a infantrymen - period.


I just realized we agree. :doh:

Moving on. lol


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 6, 2007)

> A pilot 10-week program began on Nov. 2 and will run through mid-March. The Army will then revert to it's nine week program, before instituting the 10-week program permanently in October 2008...



Give me a break...


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## digrar (Nov 6, 2007)

We did 12 weeks basic and 12 weeks of Infantry, same as Pardus, we didn't have 5 minutes to scratch ourselves during basic training. I don't think I was especially well prepared to be an Infantrymen after my first 12 weeks, but we had the basics of soldiering down pat.


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## 18C4V (Nov 6, 2007)

BCT is a joke or was when I was on the trail at lovely Relaxing Jackson. No matter how hard you try to be, you can only do so much by your self.


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## AWP (Nov 6, 2007)

18C4V said:


> BCT is a joke or was when I was on the trail at lovely Relaxing Jackson. No matter how hard you try to be, you can only do so much by your self.



I'm a Jackson alum from '93. I didn't see what all the pre-Basic hub bub was about. It was cake yet some people couldn't deal with it.


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## Polar Bear (Nov 6, 2007)

Personally I think they need to make every Infantryman attend Pre Ranger or Ranger school, straight after basic and AIT. If they make it through all of that then they can attend Airborne


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## RackMaster (Nov 6, 2007)

Our Basic (Basic Military Qualification)  is now 13 weeks and then all Army combat arms and direct support trades have to complete the Soldier Qualification (SQ) course 8 weeks for Infantry and 10 weeks for support trades.  Then they go on to complete their Basic Military Occupational Training.  The infantry go through only 4 weeks of the SQ because they go through more extensive training on their occupation training, approx. 17 weeks.

There is a rumour that it is intended that all recruits, whether Army, Air Force or Navy will have to go through the SQ.  I totally agree with this as there are occupations that are "Tri-Service", which they could wear the uniform from any element and be employed in jobs in all elements.  Which brings it down to the fact that we are all Soldiers first and foremost.



> Infantry Soldier
> Basic Military Qualification
> 
> The first stage of training for everyone is the 13-week Basic Military Qualification (BMQ) course at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec. This training provides the basic core skills and knowledge common to all trades. It is also physically demanding. A primary goal of this course is to ensure that all recruits attain the CF physical fitness standard. BMQ covers the following topics:
> ...





> Signal Operator
> Soldier Qualification
> 
> On successful completion of BMQ, Signal Operators go to a Military Training Centre for the 10-week Soldier Qualification (SQ) course, which covers the following topics:
> ...


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## RackMaster (Nov 7, 2007)

LOL, I found some videos for your amusement. ;)  This is the rigors of the Canadian Forces Basic Training. 



> Basic Up is a reality series that follows five young people from the recruiting office through the rigours of basic training and beyond. For the very first time, viewers can share the experiences, the goals and aspirations, the triumphs and defeats!


[YOUTUBE]d0XPc1opjuM[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]mRurx8oDbRQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 7, 2007)

Freefalling said:


> I'm a Jackson alum from '93. I didn't see what all the pre-Basic hub bub was about. It was cake yet some people couldn't deal with it.



When I went through in 1987, I found it to be challenging, up to a point. The biggest challenge by far was dealing with all the knuckleheads that surrounded me. Fortunately, most of them were in other platoons.

We had good Drills, all combat arms and pretty sharp. One of them was on the ground at Desert One, and since our senior platoon Drill Sgt. gave a barely perceptible head nod, I had no reason to doubt it.

I don't think somebody would BS a bunch of recruits about something like that, especially in front of his senior colleague. And he didn't say it with braggadiccio. It was almost like he told us about it with resignation, to make a point.

I should add, he wasn't part of the raiding force, he was there pulling security for the first phase of the operation only.


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## rv808 (Nov 7, 2007)

Paddlefoot said:


> When I went through in 1987, I found it to be challenging, up to a point. The biggest challenge by far was dealing with all the knuckleheads that surrounded me. Fortunately, most of them were in other platoons.



I went through Jackson Jan to April of 06 (which is almost 40 years after my dad went through hehe), and dealing with the knuckleheads was the hardest part.  

I remember one incident in Victory Forge, we had two guys playing water tag with scalding hot water, and one guy was recycled with severe burns on his foot.


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## hidesite (Nov 7, 2007)

Ft. Jackson... :uhh:


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## 104TN (Nov 7, 2007)

rv808 said:


> I remember one incident in Victory Forge, we had two guys playing water tag with scalding hot water, and one guy was recycled with severe burns on his foot.



I watched a kid shoot a blank off in his mouth. It was sweet.


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## EATIII (Nov 7, 2007)

hidesite said:


> Ft. Jackson... :uhh:



Whats wrong with Ft Jackson, That was my First Basic D-2-1/83 and it sucked. no offence but it was harder than My fun stay at Harmmony Church in 86!


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## pardus (Nov 7, 2007)

rick said:


> I watched a kid shoot a blank off in his mouth. It was sweet.



Bwahahahaha what a fucking dumb ass!


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## hidesite (Nov 7, 2007)

EATIII said:


> Whats wrong with Ft Jackson, That was my First Basic D-2-1/83 and it sucked. no offence but it was harder than My fun stay at Harmmony Church in 86!



I attended BCT to at Jackson too...


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## rv808 (Nov 7, 2007)

rick said:


> I watched a kid shoot a blank off in his mouth. It was sweet.



Ok your story wins hehe.  

What happened to that hoo ahh who did that?


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## pardus (Nov 7, 2007)

Nothing taste-wise ever again!


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 7, 2007)

EATIII said:


> Whats wrong with Ft Jackson, That was my First Basic D-2-1/83 and it sucked. no offence but it was harder than My fun stay at Harmmony Church in 86!



Colder than I thought it would be, too. I'm thinking, South Carolina, should be pretty balmy even in December/January/February.

Won't say it was as cold as Chicago, but it got pretty nippy out there on the ranges. It was their worst winter in almost 20 years. And the snow that falls down south isn't really snow, although it looks like it as it's coming down. It's like some rare strain of sleet that freezes upon contact with everything it touches and stays that way until it thaws out. 

Now I know why you guys down there have trouble driving in that stuff. It would be a challenge even for me, and I grew up around weather like that.


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## hidesite (Nov 7, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Nothing taste-wise ever again!



[To easy, leaving it alone...]


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 7, 2007)

hidesite said:


> I attended BCT to at Jackson too...



Tank Hill?


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## hidesite (Nov 7, 2007)

Paddlefoot said:


> Tank Hill?



Yep. C 2/19


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## msteen1 (Nov 8, 2007)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jRawaB1tY"]YouTube - New Army Boot camp[/ame]


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

Ours went softer as well.  Because there's something wrong with kids today.


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## 104TN (Nov 8, 2007)

rv808 said:


> Ok your story wins hehe.
> 
> What happened to that hoo ahh who did that?



He blew off that dangly thing in the back of his throat and supposedly after treatment he was going to get some BS separation because he was still in initial entry.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

As for the vid msteen1 posted... fuck that! it's fucking BS! We've gone over it before I know but it pisses me off!
The terrorists aren't getting softer and gentler on their basic training recruits!

Wake the fuck up you PC assholes!


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

Pardus, 

Check out the vids I posted on the Canadian Basic; sadly it's not any better up here.  If anything it's probably worse.


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## Pete031 (Nov 8, 2007)

It will come around again... Once they realise the quality is going to be the shits, they will change the system once again.


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

I hope so but I honestly don't think the "people" will let us "punish" their kids even though they volunteered to be in the Military.  These are the same people that don't want us fighting a war.  And I'm talking about on both sides of the border.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

I think the basic I seen in Canada was tougher than described in the US.

I think all basics now days, with the possible exception of the UK are soft and pathetic compared to mine and mine wasn't tough compared to some at the time.

I'm a dinosaur now, my time passed a long time ago....

I should've been born 15 years earlier at the latest, preferably 100 years before.


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

This brings back a thought I had the other day.  The faults of todays society and it's offspring.  Up until recently the majority of western society has not had to live through or have their children born into a life of fear or war.  Just a thought I had.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Nov 8, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> As for the vid msteen1 posted... fuck that! it's fucking BS! We've gone over it before I know but it pisses me off!
> The terrorists aren't getting softer and gentler on their basic training recruits!
> 
> Wake the fuck up you PC assholes!



I think one of the problems is that people don't understand how Army basic works.  While some of it may be getting softer, I don't agree that it is all going soft - based on my conversations with that recently went recently graduated soldiers.  You really can't expect basic for a pencil pusher to be tough.  Infantry basic is known for being "tougher" than the other Army MOS's for obvious reason - not to mention that it isn't coed.  We don't just have one or two places in the US that conduct basic training; we have quite a few that operate differently and have different standards.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeah I should have added that to my post, that soft cock basic is not for Inf etc...


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## Pete031 (Nov 8, 2007)

Well, up here, everyone is common in basic. doesn't matter if you are an Airforce Cook, a Navy poopdeck swabber, or an Infanteer. And thats why we have a huge problem with people releasing once they hit their Infantry course. 
People get the impression that Basic, or Boot will be the hardest thing they will ever do. It's not. If you are in the combat arms, in Canada, the course after Basic, is where you will feel the pain.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

I like the way the Brit Paras and Royal Marines conduct their own training from basic on.

Good concept and gives the units exactly what they need, not to mention its proven to supply troops second to none.


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## Pete031 (Nov 8, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> I like the way the Brit Paras and Royal Marines conduct their own training from basic on.
> 
> Good concept and gives the units exactly what they need, not to mention its proven to supply troops second to none.



I agree.... I guess it comes down to reasources....


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

Doesn't it always...  

Ah well, just have to go with what you have.


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## Crusader74 (Nov 8, 2007)

Irish Armies Basic is 16 weeks....... then you have your 3* course which is another 10 weeks.. Every one in the Army goes through one Recruit Training Sylabus..no matter what MOS you end up in.. Navy and Air Corp would be slightly different.

In my opinion the quality of kids joining is the Core problem and I think Pete and Pardus mentioned this..My sister told me today that her boyfriends two brothers bottled it and bought themselves out of Recruits..

I've seen it as well when I have trained Troops..


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

That is long, same as the Paras IIRC


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## Pete031 (Nov 8, 2007)

The royal Marines have the longest I believe.... When i went through ours, its was 11 weeks of Basic, followed by 17 weeks of Infantry Battleschool. It is different now, Troops go through Basic, then if you are in the Army (regardless of trade), you do a Soldier Qualification course which teaches you the basic, if defensive and some offensive ops, then you go on to what ever trade you have choosen for an additional course.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

Royal Marines are 30 weeks IIRC.


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

I think that the Soldier Qualification up here is a step in the right direction, given that direct support trades like myself will be put in situations on the front and on patrols.  I know of situations where Signallers have refused to go on patrols outside the wire in Afghanistan, leaving it up to only a handful.  And some of those that did go on patrol had changed trades from being combat arms, mostly former Infantry.  In the old days, the fuckers that refused would have been forced out or shot.  Instead the sit in camp and play Xbox.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2007)

gdamadg said:


> I know of situations where Signallers have refused to go on patrols outside the wire in Afghanistan, leaving it up to only a handful.  And some of those that did go on patrol had changed trades from being combat arms, mostly former Infantry.  In the old days, the fuckers that refused would have been forced out or shot.  Instead the sit in camp and play Xbox.



Thats disgracful.

I have zero tolerance for that kind of BS.


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Thats disgracful.
> 
> I have zero tolerance for that kind of BS.



I feel the same.  It's bullshit, I think if they refuse they should be sent home; there are plenty of guys back here in Canada that want to go over.


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## Pete031 (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm trying to get over to A-Stan for a 3rd time.... Back of the line they say...>:{


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## car (Nov 8, 2007)

gdamadg said:


> I feel the same.  It's bullshit, I think if they refuse they should be sent home; there are plenty of guys back here in Canada that want to go over.



Sent home in a box....


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 8, 2007)

I try to not get too caught up in the whole discussion of whether BCT has gone "soft".

I'm sure when I went through, there were guys who went through 20 years earlier thinking it had gone soft, and guys who had gone in 20 years before them who thought the training in '67 was soft.

Let's face it, every generation thinks the succeeding generation has it a lot easier than they had it. It gets to be a circular argument.


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## LibraryLady (Nov 8, 2007)

Paddlefoot said:


> Colder than I thought it would be, too. I'm thinking, South Carolina, should be pretty balmy even in December/January/February.
> 
> Won't say it was as cold as Chicago, but it got pretty nippy out there on the ranges. It was their worst winter in almost 20 years. And the snow that falls down south isn't really snow, although it looks like it as it's coming down. It's like some rare strain of sleet that freezes upon contact with everything it touches and stays that way until it thaws out.
> 
> Now I know why you guys down there have trouble driving in that stuff. It would be a challenge even for me, and I grew up around weather like that.


 
Mid January to March 1983 was my timeframe.  Tank Hill.

We had an ice storm - two days confined to barracks because the snow was half an inch thick on everything outside!  Old WWII barracks, and the trips from the barracks to the mess hall and back were comical...

LL


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## Paddlefoot (Nov 8, 2007)

Brings back memories, don't it?

When I saw _Full Metal Jacket_ for the first time, I thought they might have filmed the first half of the movie in my old barracks. Those Tank Hill structures were exactly what I thought an Army barracks should look like, and looks like the same contractor got the job up the road at Parris Island. 

BTW, the folks running the mess hall at the end of the block for my company were great. Some of the best food I ever ate in the Army, and they budgeted so well we even had Sara Lee for dessert just about every evening.

Went to the female company for a detail one afternoon and we stayed for lunch and couldn't believe the crap they were being fed. It was like night and day.


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## car (Nov 9, 2007)

Paddlefoot said:


> Brings back memories, don't it?
> 
> When I saw _Full Metal Jacket_ for the first time, I thought they might have filmed the first half of the movie in my old barracks. Those Tank Hill structures were exactly what I thought an Army barracks should look like, and looks like the same contractor got the job up the road at Parris Island.
> 
> ...



Dude, I haven't thought about Tank Hill in years!  Had to run from bottom to top every day - in boots!


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## hidesite (Nov 9, 2007)

Tank Hill... :bleh: I remeber the MF'n hill... ;)


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