# Running and rucking crossover



## Dimethylamine (Aug 8, 2022)

After watching the Ones Ready in the Fitness Milestones thread, it's gotten me thinking more about smarter workouts.  Before, I always tried to maximize my time throughout the week to try and get more per workout.  This led to me overtraining, getting hurt, and spending my working days foggy headed, because my sleep was bad and my training was taking over my recovery.  Nowadays, I do more mileage in the Zone 2 heart rate zone, leave one or two days for intervals or HIIT strength training, and a day for weight lifting.  I can do more for less.

Rambling aside, I'm starting to log more and more miles of running a week, but because I'm getting ready for RTAC/Ranger School, I'll have to put on a ruck eventually, despite me disliking it as a workout.  I'm just wondering if anyone here is familiar with the exercise science of rucking and running?  If you're a good runner does that carry over to rucking?  I hear people ask about the opposite, that's it.

If you took a long distance runner and threw a ruck on them, do you think they'd be a decent rucker?


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## Cookie_ (Aug 9, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> If you took a long distance runner and threw a ruck on them, do you think they'd be a decent rucker?



Mountain Tactical Institute has done a number of mini-studies with ROTC cadets and athletes to find what may correlate to improved ruck times. These studies are usually very small populations over a short period of time, so the findings still need to be explored more to establish good guidelines. 
Still, it's worth looking at to get an idea of where you may want to focus your training.

The first study found a decent correlation between 2 mile APFT times and a 65# 10km ruck completion time.

The second study found that upper body/core strength were correlated with improved ruck times. There seems to be a sweet spot between the two; IE someone who runs a sub 14 two mile may benefit more from muscular endurance/strength training, and someone who can bench/front squat a combined total over 400# may be able to focus more on cardio.
They did note that extreme high performers in a single category (upper body/lower body strength, 2 mile run) seemed to essentially "make up" for less than stellar attributes in other areas.

The last mini study they did found a stronger correlation between 6 mile run time than they did relative strength.


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## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2022)

Rucking is really just hiking under load.  Is there performance crossover from running? I don't know for certain, but, from a general fitness viewpoint, it makes logical sense that there is.

I'm sure @amlove21 has broader expertise and experience on the topic and may be willing to share some of his observations.

Technique obviously matters - rucking isn't running - but, if you like numbers, there's some correlations to performance that can be made across the board when keeping in mind a few basic "rules":

* 1 lb on your feet = 5 lbs on your back; this means you can carry more with lighter boots/ footwear - ex. a pair of Danners may weigh twice as much as a set of Lowas depending on the model and both will be heavier than say a pair of Altra trail runners

* 1 lb on your feet = 5% more energy exerted; again, think of the weight on your feet and understand how increased energy expended results in decreased performance over time/distance

* Every 1% of your body weight on your back = 6 sec. slower per mile; if you weigh 165, every 1.65 lb you carry makes you 6 sec slower per mile - now do the math for a 45 lb pack

All that said, you wouldn't just run only and not train for rucks. That would be unwise.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2022)

If I ever have the ability again, I will update this area, but a number of your rucking topics and threads can be found here…

All rucking, all the time...


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## Devildoc (Aug 9, 2022)

Running and rucking are two entirely different animals.  Getting good at one can make you better at the other via cross training, but they aren't the same.

There are a metric shit-ton of good ruck workouts out there (also thinking mountain tactical), but Stew Smith, et al., have them out there, too.

My secret sauce when I had to do it for Uncle Sam was to train for two events: a 12-mile ruck with a goal of about 2:30-2:45, which, for my short little body, is a jog; then a slower, longer, heavier ruck for endurance and conditioning.

I will say that I think but cannot prove that my 'speed ruck' training helped me to me a faster runner, but running did not necessarily help my ruck.


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## Steve1839 (Aug 9, 2022)

I don't know of any secrets, but when I was a young lieutenant, the XO of 1/10 SF had been competitive walker in college...he could turn 6 minute miles with ease and could ruck like no body's business...he'd teach some of the finer points to anyone who'd listen but it's rather unconventional and some of the older SF types were not into it...

Edited to correct punctuation.


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## Dimethylamine (Aug 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If I ever have the ability again, I will update this area, but a number of your rucking topics and threads can be found here…
> 
> All rucking, all the time...



Thanks, I did see this thread, but like many of the old threads, those links are dead.


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## Grunt (Aug 9, 2022)

The best way to improve your ruck is to ruck more and more and more and more....

When I left bootcamp, I was 5'5" , 138 pounds (after gaining 20 pound in bootcamp) and was assigned as a 0331 (Machinegunner).  Picture that -- one of the smallest guys in the Corps having to ruck with "everything" plus an M60-E3. I could and can run like a gazelle, but when it came to rucking, I basically learned how to do a "slow jog" in order to keep up with everyone else. They walked, I ran. It was called embracing the suck and getting a first-hand learning experience at the principles of improvising, overcoming, and adapting. Anything you do to improve cardio and breathing is a plus and can't hurt you in the end. Remember, ruck more and more and more -- well, you get the idea. Do something a lot until you become "expert" at it....


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Thanks, I did see this thread, but like many of the old threads, those links are dead.


That’s too bad, I’m assuming it’s probably part of from when the site went down.

If I ever have the opportunity and the access, I will go through some of those “super threads” that I created in the past and see if I can’t repair some of them.


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## Polar Bear (Aug 9, 2022)

If you are in overall great shape then to improve times it is technique. I posted about it years ago. As for rucking you just have to do it. Pack a rucksack with 30-40 lbs and just hike….don’t throw a 30 lbs plate in the ruck, put stuff in it. If you have to put 5 lbs weight in it fine. 30 lbs weight strapped to your back is totally diff then 30 lbs of stuff strapped to your back. Balance, speed and stride is diff. Also train on diff surfaces sand, trail, pavement all are diff.


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## Gunz (Aug 18, 2022)

Grunt said:


> was assigned as a 0331 (Machinegunner).  Picture that -- one of the smallest guys in the Corps having to ruck with "everything" plus an M60-E3. I could and can run like a gazelle, but when it came to rucking, I basically learned how to do a "slow jog" in order to keep up with everyone else. They walked, I ran. It was called embracing the suck and getting a first-hand learning experience at the principles of improvising, overcoming, and adapting. Anything you do to improve cardio and breathing is a plus and can't hurt you in the end. Remember, ruck more and more and more -- well, you get the idea. Do something a lot until you become "expert" at it....



I was also a machine gunner and also skinny and I know what it’s like to have to run to keep up on a forced march.


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## Muppet (Sep 21, 2022)




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## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2022)

Muppet said:


>


No hate at you.  

Hate at the fact that this happened:
1. In broad daylight in what appears to be a fairly busy area
2. Hit a police car
3. IN FRONT OF THE COPS STANDING RIGHT THERE
4. No one moved a button muscle; nothing. Everyone just stood there.

Is this what our society has become?  This is honestly the biggest outcome from George Floyd's death.  This change in societal behavior can be directly tied back to the riots and failed leadership/response in the wake of his death.


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## Muppet (Sep 21, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> No hate at you.
> 
> Hate at the fact that this happened:
> 1. In broad daylight in what appears to be a fairly busy area
> ...



Lol. Fuck. This was meant for you tube thread, how it ended up here, no clue.


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## Dimethylamine (Sep 23, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Lol. Fuck. This was meant for you tube thread, how it ended up here, no clue.



If I'm on Darby pass at Ranger School, I'll likely need to know about this when i'm dealing with the sketchiness that is Victory Drive in Columbus, GA.


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## Dimethylamine (Oct 26, 2022)

My ruck sack broke, so I DX'd it.  Was told with how CIF goes, I'd have to wait for them to accept it then I'd get a replacement.  I'd be waiting for a month.

But perfect timing, there's a hole in my daily bag so I bought the GoRuck Rucker and a 30 lb plate and it'll be here on Friday.  I'll use this to train while I wait. What a good company; fast shipping too!


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## Devildoc (Oct 26, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> My ruck sack broke, so I DX'd it.  Was told with how CIF goes, I'd have to wait for them to accept it then I'd get a replacement.  I'd be waiting for a month.
> 
> But perfect timing, there's a hole in my daily bag so I bought the GoRuck Rucker and a 30 lb plate and it'll be here on Friday.  I'll use this to train while I wait. What a good company; fast shipping too!



Goruck is overpriced, but for a PT ruck, it is an excellent product that will take a heap of abuse.


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## Dimethylamine (Oct 27, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Goruck is overpriced, but for a PT ruck, it is an excellent product that will take a heap of abuse.


Yeah, I figured it was, like a lot of CrossFit/Operator created fitness products.  My Fox River bag was only $100 at Ranger Joe's and I bet it will be made of the same material; it finally broke after returning from a solo trip, so I figure it was time to get a one size fits all bag.


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## Dimethylamine (Nov 15, 2022)

I did a diagnostic ruck this month and did another one this morning. I did a 6 miler with 36 lbs without any train up and did it in 1:27, so about 14:30 minutes per mile and was hardly difficult at all. I did a 6.5 miler at a 15 min/mile pace with 46 lbs this morning and it was more of a struggle to keep a good pace but I felt fine afterwards; not tired at all (according to Strava, I was Zone 2 for 90% of it) but my calves are tight.

Cardiovascularly, I feel strong, as I feel the miles of long distance running helped me out a lot, but of course I still need to ruck more to get used to the technique differences.

Any advice on how to make it feel more effortless, technique wise? If I 'open up my step' I feel my hips tighten up more. If I airborne shuffle, my calves tighten up. I end up doing a sort of a trot which feels like it mimics a slow jog and I don't feel tight at all.


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