# Sorry Lance Corporal - no cig smoking in Hawaii



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2015)

This aught to go over well...nothing like creating situations for young Marines to bitch about, and yet one more reason to NJP them out of the Corps.

Marines Will Comply With Hawaii Law Raising Smoking Age to 21 | Military.com

_Starting Jan. 1, Hawaii-based Marines will have to be 21 to smoke -- or they could face state and Marine Corps penalties.

In an administrative message released today, Marine Corps Deputy Commandant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs Lt. Gen. Mark Brilakis  announced the Corps would cooperate with a new Hawaii law that raises the minimum age to use or purchase tobacco products from 18 to 21. The law, signed in June, is intended to stop people from becoming habitual smokers. Hawaii officials have told media outlets that 99 percent of people who smoke start the habit before age 21.

Brilakis said he was directing all stores aboard Marine Corps installations in Hawaii to stop selling tobacco products, including smokeless tobacco and electronic smoking devices, to anyone under 21. Marine Corps and Navy personnel and dependents, as well as other family members, guests and base residents, will be expected to comply with the new law, Brilakis said._

"Personnel cited by state and local police for violations of Hawaii's tobacco laws are subject to fines and community service imposed by the state," he said.


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## DA SWO (Dec 29, 2015)

Bunch of BS as State Laws do not apply on a Federal Installation.


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## Grunt (Dec 29, 2015)

I was stationed at Kaneohe Bay when they changed the drinking age to 21. The base CG allowed us to continue drinking at 18 for about six months until they advised that they were going to begin following the state law to maintain a "good relationship" with the local government. Personally, I think they worried about our "under 21" drinkers leaving base and getting into wrecks or other forms of trouble.

With that said, if you can't do "big boy things" until 21...you shouldn't be able to enlist until 21.


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## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2015)

Drinking, smoking, owning/carrying guns, the list goes on with the disparities between what you can do on and off base based on local/state jurisdictions and military policy.  On the one hand I don't mind the consistency of having the same laws/policies; on the other, since by law I can shoot people in the head in combat, and since at age 20 I have more leadership opportunities than many 30 year-olds, perhaps I should be able to buy that beer (or in this case, dip) on base.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2015)

As I recall in Okinawa (90' to 93') you could order beer and hard drinks at the e-club and packing store on base at age 19.  My buddies from MOS school who did not have a direct ticket to the Rock, and instead went to the Palms, were restricted to beer only at the club, but no hard drinks.  Is it still that way today, or is it 21 or bust?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 30, 2015)

The Army has slowly been trying to outright ban smoking/dipping for awhile. I imagine in 20 years, the armed forces as a whole with be tobacco free. And although I personally dipped and smoked while I was in, I am not sure that's such a bad thing. Especially with smoking, as it has residual effects on other parts of personal health that lead to unnecessary medical costs to the military and unit readiness.

My$.02


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## policemedic (Dec 30, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The Army has slowly been trying to outright ban smoking/dipping for awhile. I imagine in 20 years, the armed forces as a whole with be tobacco free. And although I personally dipped and smoked while I was in, I am not sure that's such a bad thing. Especially with smoking, as it has residual effects on other parts of personal health that lead to unnecessary medical costs to the military and unit readiness.
> 
> My$.02



I won't make an argument in favor of smoking.  I do think that it's better to ban the practice entirely by regulation than to acquiesce to a state law that doesn't apply on post. 

I firmly believe that if you're man or woman enough to raise your hand in front of the flag and take the oath that you should be able to buy a beer (or cigar) on post.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 31, 2015)

policemedic said:


> I won't make an argument in favor of smoking.  I do think that it's better to ban the practice entirely by regulation than to acquiesce to a state law that doesn't apply on post.
> 
> I firmly believe that if you're man or woman enough to raise your hand in front of the flag and take the oath that you should be able to buy a beer (or cigar) on post.



Yep, I agree with that.


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## digrar (Dec 31, 2015)

About a dollar a cigarette here in Australia now, with double figure % increases every year. A pack a day habit is near on a 10 grand a year commitment. Along with that, they're rapidly increasing the amounts of places in public where a person can't indulge the nasty practice. More effective than a ban I think.


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## compforce (Dec 31, 2015)

So I have a problem with it from the practical side.  Joe Snuffy gets PCS orders there.  He's an otherwise squared away hard charger that is making rank fast and has a combat tour under his belt.  Suddenly he is forced to go cold turkey on cigarettes.  His discipline goes to hell, he's got the shakes, he starts sneaking smokes and gets busted for it.  The Corp loses a good Marine.

If you think that is a stretch, I was in one of the first rotations in Infantry Basic/AIT that was non-smoking.  There were cigarettes everywhere.  They were in the roof tiles, buried in the woods, hidden in places in people's gear.  There was even one enterprising guy that had a carton taped up under the bumper of one of the Drill Sergeant's cars.  Even non-smokers had them...so they could sell them to the desperate smokers.

This is going to be a nut roll.  It's not like the civilian world where you can choose not to go there.


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## Jael (Dec 31, 2015)

They are enforcing this on the AF/Navy side as well. No sales on or off base to anyone under 21, and JBPHH is in the mix and the Assist SecDef is for it.


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## DA SWO (Dec 31, 2015)

Jael said:


> They are enforcing this on the AF/Navy side as well. No sales on or off base to anyone under 21, and JBPHH is in the mix and the Assist SecDef is for it.


Assistant SecDef needs a 6 month tour to Iraq.
Meanwhile junkies and other losers get free care in Military Trauma Centers.


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## Gunz (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't have a problem with trying to make the military smoke-free but don't try to tell a guy to go cold turkey just prior to a combat deployment.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jan 9, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> I don't have a problem with trying to make the military smoke-free but don't try to tell a guy to go cold turkey just prior to a combat deployment.



Concur with you observation, amigo; it is asking too much. My personal smoking history has large blocks of non smoking, after stopping by any means. Then on a couple of PCS moves I made the choice to go back on Marlboros within a couple of weeks. The culture then made no difference with use of tobacco products. Today's social and other ethos and much more anti tobacco usage across the board. If the rule is zero tolerance of tobacco usage, I would like to think that there will be in place, active medical, and social support for the rule.

A goal of zero tobacco usage across the entire military, is an ambitious, and senesable move. It will save loss of man hours of. Also on the plus side, is the economic gain for service members, as tobacco products continue to risse in cost everywhere.

Sooooo, I understand, and support the goal of a tobacco free military. It can be done over time. I think forcing the program via "Cold Turkey" means is the wrong approach. There are several pharmacological agents that will make the move much more successful. Supportave groups are also usefull tools if used properly. Given that it may take several attempts before someone can finally walk away from tobacco use, there should be allowances made for a couple of trys.


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## DA SWO (Jan 9, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Concur with you observation, amigo; it is asking too much. My personal smoking history has large blocks of non smoking, after stopping by any means. Then on a couple of PCS moves I made the choice to go back on Marlboros within a couple of weeks. The culture then made no difference with use of tobacco products. Today's social and other ethos and much more anti tobacco usage across the board. If the rule is zero tolerance of tobacco usage, I would like to think that there will be in place, active medical, and social support for the rule.
> 
> A goal of zero tobacco usage across the entire military, is an ambitious, and senesable move. It will save loss of man hours of. Also on the plus side, is the economic gain for service members, as tobacco products continue to risse in cost everywhere.
> 
> Sooooo, I understand, and support the goal of a tobacco free military. It can be done over time. I think forcing the program via "Cold Turkey" means is the wrong approach. There are several pharmacological agents that will make the move much more successful. Supportave groups are also usefull tools if used properly. Given that it may take several attempts before someone can finally walk away from tobacco use, there should be allowances made for a couple of trys.


What becomes an acceptable stress reliever then?
No tobacco, no booze, no crazy parties?
Then we wonder why everyone comes home stressed out.


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## Gunz (Jan 10, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> What becomes an acceptable stress reliever then?
> No tobacco, no booze, no crazy parties?
> Then we wonder why everyone comes home stressed out.


 

Seriously, there's a lot to be said for hell-raising as combat decompression.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jan 10, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> What becomes an acceptable stress reliever then?
> No tobacco, no booze, no crazy parties?
> Then we wonder why everyone comes home stressed out.



I agree with you across the board. I wish I had some answers.


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