# Ultra Marathons & Selections



## Mr Gray (Nov 10, 2017)

Do you guys think that training for & running ultramarathons (like 15-24 hr duration) would be good mental/physical training for SOF selections that have you going on minimal rest? This is of course without neglecting PT or if the selection involves swimming.


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## CDG (Nov 10, 2017)

Have you seen ultramarathoners?  Those people probably aren't moving too fast, or very far, with a heavy ruck on their backs.  Selections punish specialists and reward versatility.  You gotta be able to do more than run for a long time with no weight.


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## CDG (Nov 10, 2017)

Agreed on the mental aspect.  I think a certain amount of strength goes a long way in rucking, and in staying injury free as well. I can't speak for SFAS, but the TACP pipeline has changed to where strength plays a bigger factor.  It's no longer just run, ruck, cals.  

For the OP, something like the CrossFit Endurance programming may work well for you, if ultra distance running is something you're interested in, but still want to make sure you're training other aspects of fitness.


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## Mr Gray (Nov 10, 2017)

Thank you guys for the feedback.  I was mostly thinking for the mental callousing aspect too I guess. In terms of weekly training for something like PJ Indoc I had in mind something like this

Mon: AM Gym (full body) PM Track intervals 
Tue: AM Swim.  PM Easy 6-8 mile run
Wed: AM Gym (full body) PM Ruck (Uphill intervals w/water jugs) 
Thu: AM Swim 
Fri: 3-4 hrs Long Run 
Sat: 2-3 hrs Swim + Cals + Heavy Ruck (on flat to rolling roads)

This would just be a type of "endurance base phase" leading up to something more  swim/strength/ruck intensive 2 months prior the shipping.


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## Mr Gray (Nov 10, 2017)

There are some exceptions to the average scrawny ultrarunner


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## CDG (Nov 10, 2017)

Sure.  There are exceptions to everything.  If you have those genetics, then ignore the point I raised and go forth to conquer the dragon, or whatever.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2017)

Mr Gray said:


> View attachment 20245
> 
> There are some exceptions to the average scrawny ultrarunner



Unless that is a pic of you, this is kind of a dick response in a thread where you are asking for help. 

To add - @CDG  posted his response as I was typing. I’ll leave it though, because.


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## Mr Gray (Nov 10, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Unless that is a pic of you, this is kind of a dick response in a thread where you are asking for help.
> 
> To add - @CDG  posted his response as I was typing. I’ll leave it though, because.



Wasn't aiming to be a dick. I apologize if that came off that way.


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## Mr Gray (Nov 10, 2017)

CDG said:


> Sure.  There are exceptions to everything.  If you have those genetics, then ignore the point I raised and go forth to conquer the dragon, or whatever.



I certainly don't look like that stud, but I don't have skinny-fat genetics like a lot of runners.  I've never looked at crossfit endurance but I'll check it out for sure. Thanks for your input.


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## Airmanjk03 (May 27, 2018)

Old thread , but I thought I'd throw my opinion and experience in. I just ran a 30 miler over 4,000 ft of elevation gain. I'm 230 lbs and mostly fat. Heavy build from competitive lifting and no running back ground. 

I believe your inclination that time on feet is beneficial would be correct. Putting in 4-5 hr runs through the mountains on Saturdays really trains the brain to work through the little pains and cramps that come up. It makes my 5 mile training during the week feel like sprints. After I finished my race I finally put together for my first time and moved over 5 miles at 12/min pace. I think the mental training has been one of the biggest factors to my confidence in getting through anything that any selection could throw at me. I believe that the theme is most people don't drop because they aren't physically capable, but the mind believes so. 

I'm signed up for a 50 miler this October and planning on doing that one around 220 as well. So go for it!


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> So go for it!


And what, if any. Selection experience do you have?


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## Airmanjk03 (May 29, 2018)

The question was on mental/physical training. It applies to everything including selection. It's not an exclusive space.  You don't have to be an expert on any selection to know that putting in grueling hours running will absolutely help you.


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## CDG (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> The question was on mental/physical training. It applies to everything including selection. It's not an exclusive space.  You don't have to be an expert on any selection to know that putting in grueling hours running will absolutely help you.



You really thought this was your best course of action?  Without having ever been to a Selection, how would you know what the mental and physical demands are?  You think doing some running qualifies you to speak on the topic?  It doesn't.  Pipe down.


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> The question was on mental/physical training. It applies to everything including selection. It's not an exclusive space.  You don't have to be an expert on any selection to know that putting in grueling hours running will absolutely help you.


Ok fella.

Your answer to my question, then, is ‘None. I have zero selection experience, and since the thread is on ultramarathons and selections, I should probably keep my non-vetted opinion to myself. Sorry, Amlove! Thanks for trying to guide me without being a dick about it first.’

You’re way out of your depth here. To avoid the well deserved but unnecessary dogpile, lets all agree that unqualified people with no experience shouldn’t make tenuous equivocations on things they have no clue about.

Moving on.


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## Airmanjk03 (May 29, 2018)

It applies mutatis mutandis, but I can see that Ad hominem is appreciated by the other administrators.  I'll be more mindful next time I come to the site.


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> It applies mutatis mutandis, but I can see that Ad hominem is appreciated by the other administrators.  I'll be more mindful next time I come to the site.


Are you feeling attacked as a person because you have zero experience with selections and how to prepare for them, which is the point of the thread? 

No safe spaces here. You’re internalization of an honest critique is a ‘you’ problem, not an ‘anyone else’ problem. 

But you’re right- you should be more mindful when posting, especially when you don’t have the experience or vetting to back up your opinion.


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## Airmanjk03 (May 29, 2018)

Do you feel attacked? I don't think my reply deserved the hate. It was my honest critique of your response.  I'm glad there aren't safe spaces. I understand and fully respect your logic behind vetting people on their opinions.  I just wanted to explain that I initially only replied to you to explain that I didn't express an opinion on selection, but only generally to the aspect of my experience training and running ultras and how it has impacted me. Which I think could be of value to someone interested in the experience. Thats it. I apologize for offending you and I'll stay within the bounds the site is ran.


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## Teufel (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> Old thread , but I thought I'd throw my opinion and experience in. I just ran a 30 miler over 4,000 ft of elevation gain. I'm 230 lbs and mostly fat. Heavy build from competitive lifting and no running back ground.
> 
> I believe your inclination that time on feet is beneficial would be correct. Putting in 4-5 hr runs through the mountains on Saturdays really trains the brain to work through the little pains and cramps that come up. It makes my 5 mile training during the week feel like sprints. After I finished my race I finally put together for my first time and moved over 5 miles at 12/min pace. I think the mental training has been one of the biggest factors to my confidence in getting through anything that any selection could throw at me. I believe that the theme is most people don't drop because they aren't physically capable, but the mind believes so.
> 
> I'm signed up for a 50 miler this October and planning on doing that one around 220 as well. So go for it!



Sounds like the only selection you’ve made it through is Baskins Robbins’ 31 flavors. Maybe you should set your brain to receive and suppress your mouth a little. Especially when you go hard in the paint against a senior PJ instructor. But hey, you do you. Best of luck, I’m sure you’ll do great.


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2018)

Airmanjk03 said:


> Do you feel attacked? I don't think my reply deserved the hate. It was my honest critique of your response.  I'm glad there aren't safe spaces. I understand and fully respect your logic behind vetting people on their opinions.  I just wanted to explain that I initially only replied to you to explain that I didn't express an opinion on selection, but only generally to the aspect of my experience training and running ultras and how it has impacted me. Which I think could be of value to someone interested in the experience. Thats it. I apologize for offending you and I'll stay within the bounds the site is ran.


Sigh. 

Ok, fella. Your ignorance is just as good as everyone else’s knowledge. You argued your misstep so well that even though you don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re right. 

If you want to discuss further, feel free to PM me about astrophysics, civil engineering, or other shit you don’t know about but can rationalize because you ran a long race once and feel really strongly that it applies to things it doesn’t cause you say so. 


But do me a favor- keep your opinions about special operations selections preparation to yourself, regardless of how well you think your hobby prepares people you don’t know for something you haven’t even attempted. 

Everyone else- stay on topic, please.


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## DozerB (May 30, 2018)

Mr Gray said:


> Thank you guys for the feedback.  I was mostly thinking for the mental callousing aspect too I guess. In terms of weekly training for something like PJ Indoc I had in mind something like this
> 
> Mon: AM Gym (full body) PM Track intervals
> Tue: AM Swim.  PM Easy 6-8 mile run
> ...



Just my personal opinion:

- if you have the endurance to go for an hour, I think it would benefit you to work on speed in the 3-5 mile range rather than running for four straight hours at a sluggish pace. 

- running slow for half a day will make you great at running slow for half a day, but it will lead to injury if you don't factor in time for mobility/recovery. 

- it's just boring. The line of thinking goes: if I can run 12 miles, the 3 mile test will be so easy! But that doesn't really translate when you are used to 9-10 minute mile paces and everyone else is literally sprinting their 3 mile test but can also lift way more weight than you because they had the time leftover to lift weights AND do cals AND do some mobility/recovery work. When it comes time to pick up awkward, heavy things and walk for long distances with them, nobody will care what your marathon time is. It's easy to say you won't neglect PT or cals or lifting while training for ultramarathons, but after a 4 hour run the last thing you are going to do is an hour of calisthenics. Biologically, your body can not run 70-80 miles per week AND maintain muscle mass. I'm sure there are exceptions; but I'm also relatively sure they are few and far between.

All of this to say: will running a marathon help you mentally? Of course. It will make you really good at being tired and bored with a huge amount of mileage ahead of you. But I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze as far as time management goes.

If anything, maybe do it once every few months just to get outside of your comfort zone. 

Disclaimer: I have never, am not currently, and will never run an ultramarathon, based purely on the principle of running being an activity created and encouraged by Satan himself.


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