# Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine



## Rapid (Oct 3, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19812064



> A painkiller as powerful as morphine, but without most of the side-effects, has been found in the deadly venom of the black mamba, say French scientists. The predator, which uses neurotoxins to paralyse and kill small animals, is one of the fastest and most dangerous snakes in Africa. However, tests on mice, reported in the journal Nature, showed its venom also contained a potent painkiller.
> 
> They admit to being completely baffled about why the mamba would produce it. The researchers looked at venom from 50 species before they found the black mamba's pain-killing proteins - called mambalgins. Dr Eric Lingueglia, from the Institute of Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology near Nice, told the BBC: "When it was tested in mice, the analgesia was *as strong as morphine, but you don't have most of the side-effects.*"
> 
> ...


 
I can't wait to see if they can confirm that this has similar effects on humans.


----------



## pardus (Oct 3, 2012)

Very interesting indeed. Beautiful snakes too. They better find a synthetic if it does work or there are going to be a lot of dead African snake catchers.


----------



## Frank S. (Oct 3, 2012)

pardus said:


> Beautiful snakes too.


 
Huh, never figured you for a herpetologist.... On the other hand (and I mean hers, not yours, are those spirochetes?)...


----------



## pardus (Oct 3, 2012)

Frank you remind me of Obelix, the difference being that the vat you fell into was LSD.


----------



## AWP (Oct 3, 2012)

pardus said:


> Very interesting indeed. Beautiful snakes too. They better find a synthetic if it does work or there are going to be a lot of dead African snake catchers.


 
Population control should be a growth industry.

I know! We bring Ugandans here to find mines, why don't we send them some Afghans to find snakes?


----------



## parallel (Oct 3, 2012)

> Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine




Well yeah! It's kinda of hard to feel pain when you're dead.


----------



## pardus (Oct 3, 2012)

I worked in a wildlife place in Africa that had a Black Mamba. I was told that if bitten you have about 20min before your're done for and your breathing shuts down. The nearest hospital was 20min away and the nearest anti-venom in another country about several hours flight away. 
SOP was race to the hospital, get put onto an iron lung to keep you alive until the venom could be flown in. Needless to say, I kept away from that snake lol


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 3, 2012)

Very cool.  I'd be willing to give it a try, probably better than any of the shit I've had to take in the past.


----------



## NeverSayDie (Oct 3, 2012)

(If the new proteins suppresses the respiratory system as much as (or even slightly less than) morphine,  I don't see any major pharmaceutical companies lining up to dump money into developing it, and as a result it becomes a footnote in the history of herpetology.

  If the neural pathway it uses doesn't effect breathing however, you're looking at a whole new category of situations that morphine is contraindicated for, that we can give out something better than a few extra strength tylenol.  

What I'm really curious about is why it just evolved in mambas and not other members of the elapidea family like cobras. Willing to bet it has something to do with a possible difference in diet.


----------



## Dame (Oct 4, 2012)

Even with a slight respiratory side effect risk, if it's found to be non-addictive it could be used during rehab detox.


----------



## x SF med (Oct 4, 2012)

pardus said:


> Frank you remind me of Obelix, the difference being that the vat you fell into was LSD.


 
Never figured you for an Asterix fan............  and Frank is far smaller than Obelix, and maybe not quite as bright, nor anywhere near as strong......  but he is a Gaul..........


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 5, 2012)

Moved the thread here for the medical geeks to tear through, me being one of them.




pardus said:


> The nearest hospital was 20min away and the nearest anti-venom in another country about several hours flight away.
> SOP was race to the hospital, get put onto an iron lung to keep you alive until the venom could be flown in. Needless to say, I kept away from that snake lol


 
I had this exact conversation a little bit ago. We basically landed on "If you get bit, and we can 110% know that it was a mamba, we are going to put you down (RSI/PAI) with a long acting paralytic (Rocuronium, anyone?) immediately, and keep you down during transport and hope to who the eff ever with the antivenin."
I can see this being a HAYOOG problem in the field. Simple race against time. I'd be interested in a couple other opinions on this one if you got one. 

Moreover, even if the venom rock balls for pain, we have got to figure out how to synthesize it. There is no way we'd be able to milk mamba's all the livelong day. Well, unless we bred mamba's for science. Wait, isn't that the plot to "Snakes on a Plane"?!?


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> I had this exact conversation a little bit ago. We basically landed on...


 
This came up at KAF in '06 when our little slice of heaven began finding saw-scaled vipers in it, one in my office, but I digress...

We were told to drive to the other side of the airifield. I said I'd drive ACROSS the airfield. "You can't do that, that's illegal."
So is dying.
"Security Forces will shoot you."
If that's the case, it will be the first time they've shot anyone. Kudos to them.

The conversation went downhill from there, but even in my non-medical world, a snake bite in this portion of the planet isn't a "Well, it kills you in 20 minutes, so arriving at the hospital in 15 is good enough" proposition. The agreed upon SOP was to take perimter road around the base. 

Besides, the antivenin was out of date. I don't know how long that stuff is good for, but our medics all said what was on hand had expired.

Oh well, I had $5 on making it to the back door of the hospital before the AFSF were even awake, much less shooting at me.

At any rate....I don't know how many of you have ever taken morphine, but IF I were to become a junkie, I've found my drug of choice though the minor "respiratory seizure" you feel when it hits your system is a bit disconcerting...


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 5, 2012)

Morphine sucks, much rather be in pain and have some ability to think and work, then be scratching like a crack head.

I am all about new Pain Killers, but I doubt I would sign up for a study with the use of Black Mamba Venom. I think I will stick OC's and bed rest...


----------



## Muppet (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, Fentanyl is a good drug w/o the same side effects and you don't need a black mamba to bite you for it. So, what the people are saying is that it acts as a paralytic, on the motor end plate?

F.M.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 5, 2012)

If they could use it on isolated peripheral nerve pain, I could see a lot of good uses but as a general pain killer, doubt it.


----------



## RENO (Oct 6, 2012)

.


*... I thought Kobe was the "Black Mamba" ...*


.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 6, 2012)

RENO said:


> .
> 
> 
> *... I thought Kobe was the "Black Mamba" ...*
> ...


You wanna try milking him for his venom? I can only assume that job would be less fun than actually handling snakes all day. Like, actual snakes, not of the "trouser" variety.


----------



## AWP (Oct 6, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> You wanna try milking him for his venom? I can only assume that job would be less fun than actually handling snakes all day. Like, actual snakes, not of the "trouser" variety.


 
They had a clinic for that in CO, but it shut down. "Staffing issues" I'm told.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Oct 9, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> This came up at KAF in '06 when our little slice of heaven began finding saw-scaled vipers in it, one in my office, but I digress...
> 
> We were told to drive to the other side of the airifield. I said I'd drive ACROSS the airfield. "You can't do that, that's illegal."
> So is dying.
> ...


The bold caused me to LOL.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 11, 2012)

k


----------



## AWP (Oct 11, 2012)

Red Flag 1 said:


> discuss the medical problems seen with Black Mamba bites.


 
Death. Easy thread to work with.

In all seriousness, start typing, Doc. You aren't allowed to kick the nest and leave. :)


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> Death. Easy thread to work with.


----------

