# Missing/Captured:  Bowe Bergdahl



## Havoc13 (Feb 20, 2014)

http://www.shadowspear.com/2014/02/why-us-army-sergeant-bowe-bergdahl-still-matters/

What do you think- does Bergdahl still matter?


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 20, 2014)

How did this "individual" make Sgt?

He needs to be brought back, even if only to have his arse kicked.  It's not that he will provide anything more useful than another mouth to feed in the Army's school for naughty boys IMO but whilst he's able to be dragged out at will for the camera by his captors its not good for the image or for morale.


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## Havoc13 (Feb 20, 2014)

In the US military, POWs/captured-missing personnel get automatically promoted while their in captivity.


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## DA SWO (Feb 20, 2014)

Havoc13 said:


> http://www.shadowspear.com/2014/02/why-us-army-sergeant-bowe-bergdahl-still-matters/
> 
> What do you think- does Bergdahl still matter?


Sadly yes.

My concern is he will get returning hero status and people will refuse to believe he deserted.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 20, 2014)

Absolutely he matters.  While I agree that there is speculation as to "how" he was captured, there are no facts.  Maybe he was somehow tricked to go outside the line?  There is lots of circumstancual evidence, but again, no facts.  As your article stated, we should not leave an American soldier to rot at the hands of the enemy, if he was wrong, then he should come home and face American Justice.  But there in lies my problem, we are a country that LOVES a hero and hates having to learn about the facts.  My concern is that he will come home to a heroes welcome, whether he deserves it or not.  I think back to the movie Wag the Dog, if we need a hero, we will manufacture a hero.  The average American will have a hard time considering Sgt. Bergdahl a villian unless there is a very detailed case laid out.


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## Brill (Feb 21, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> But there in lies my problem, we are a country that LOVES a hero and hates having to learn about the facts.  My concern is that he will come home to a heroes welcome, whether he deserves it or not.  I think back to *Jessica Lynch, *if we need a hero, we will manufacture a hero.  The average American will have a hard time considering Sgt. Bergdahl a villian unless there is a very detailed case laid out.



Fixed your post.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 21, 2014)

@lindy , solid fix.  and IIRC, she was actually pretty vocal about the fact that she didn't want anything to do with the media firestorm that tried to portray her actions as more than they were.


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## Brill (Feb 21, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> @lindy , solid fix.  and IIRC, she was actually pretty vocal about the fact that she didn't want anything to do with the media firestorm that tried to portray her actions as more than they were.



Correct.  My point was that the "machine" will create the scene to fit the image they want to portray...like in "Wag the Benghazi".


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## Centermass (May 31, 2014)

The only American solider held prisoner in Afghanistan has been freed from Taliban captivity in exchange for the release of five Afghan detainees from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Obama administration officials said Saturday.

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was handed over to U.S. special forces by the Taliban Saturday evening, local time, in an area of eastern Afghanistan, near the Pakistan border. Officials said the exchange was not violent and the 28-year-old Bergdahl was in good condition and able to walk.

Several dozen U.S. special operations forces flew into Afghanistan by helicopter and made the transfer with the approximately 18 Taliban members. The official said the commandos were on the ground for a short time, before lifting off with Bergdahl

According to a senior defense official traveling with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel in Singapore, once Bergdahl climbed onto the noisy helicopter he took a pen and wrote on a paper plate, the letters "SF?" — asking the troops if they were special operations forces.

They shouted back at him over the roar of the rotors: "Yes, we've been looking for you for a long time."

Link


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## pardus (May 31, 2014)

No negotiating with terrorists... 

Now lets do the right thing and properly investigate and/or charge this guy with desertion.


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## AWP (May 31, 2014)

Fuck this guy. Twice. Maybe 4 or 70 times.

ALLLLLL the other BS associated with him AND we release (errr, "exchange") some terrorists for this dude AND his first communication is to inquire who rescued him? SF? Dick fuck, you are finally a free man, WTF does it matter WHO picked you up? SF, SEALS, Boy Scout Troop 1, Greenpeace....hell, anyone but Jesse Jackson? No..."God Bless America" or "Is this real" or "I'm finally going home?!" or anything...he gathers intel. Yeah, I'm paranoid or skeptical or whatever, but Nicholas Brody is rubbing one out right now.

This thing stinks. Anyone taking bets on whether we'll prosecute (HAHAHAHAHAHA!) or treat him like a hero?

Fuck this guy.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2014)

Great!

And until I am led to believe otherwise, I will be anxiously awaiting his court martial for desertion.


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## DA SWO (May 31, 2014)

He gets treated like a Hero if WE, the Military and Veterans of this country allow it.

Call the local talk show, post on the National Talk Show Host Pages (FB, et al) and let everyone know he DESERTED.

You can cut his 15 min of fame down to 4 or 5 min if WE are vocal.


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## Totentanz (May 31, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> Great!
> 
> And until I am led to believe otherwise, *I will be anxiously awaiting his court martial for desertion*.



While I generally agree with your view of the situation, I wouldn't hold my breath for any kind of rigorous investigation into the circumstances of how he wound up in Taliban hands...


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## pardus (May 31, 2014)

SOWT said:


> He gets treated like a Hero if WE, the Military and Veterans of this country allow it.
> 
> Call the local talk show, post on the National Talk Show Host Pages (FB, et al) and let everyone know he DESERTED.
> 
> You can cut his 15 min of fame down to 4 or 5 min if WE are vocal.



I would like some proof before that happens though. e.g. interviews with his peers etc... We all "know" what happened, or think we do, but I'd like to see something solid on this. A google search of "bergdahl deserter" shows that the media has covered his actions which is good.


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## pardus (May 31, 2014)

From March 2014...



> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-sgt-bowe-bergdahl-a-hero-or-a-deserter/


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## AWP (May 31, 2014)

...and I'm already fighting this on Facebook.

Folks, the war came to a halt in RC East while units best the bushes for this turd. CAS was set aside for this guy and we don't exactly have airframes sitting around. This turd can hang unless someone can show me that he was kidnapped or otherwise coerced and his actions DID NOT contribute to his "vacation."


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 31, 2014)

Glad we got him back, I don't wish that situation on any American. The Army should investigate him and his actions, not only leading to his capture but also his conduct while in captivity.

If he deserted he should get time served and a dishonorable discharge, no benefits and quietly sent home with an NDA that he cannot write any books or do any movie deals. 

My $.02


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## Teufel (May 31, 2014)

I guess the Taliban got tired of passing him around the rape train or he finally blew his rectal gasket.


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## DA SWO (May 31, 2014)

Fucking awesome, I hope my wife doesn't get him as a client.


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## Mac_NZ (May 31, 2014)

So if it does go to a court martial and he's found guilty of desertion will he actually go to the wall and be shot or will he just rot in gaol?


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## Scotth (May 31, 2014)

It will never get to a court martial status regardless of the facts.  They will tell him to shut his mouth or face charges and sweep it all under the carpet.

Nobody will allow this PR disaster from seeing the inside of a court.  DoD PR > right and wrong.


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## Viper1 (May 31, 2014)

1) I'm glad he's back.
2) I know a lot of people are upset about his capture.  Emotions are strong based on facts of how much time, energy, blood, and treasure was spent looking for him.  I've had personal experience with looking for this kid, like many of us on here have had.

BUT...

Let's get him back, treat him with dignity and respect, and garner as much information and intelligence from this young man as we can.  The full capacity of what he knows may take months or a year to illicit and develop.  An investigation into the parameters of his capture.  He's not going anywhere for awhile.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2014)

Scotth said:


> It will never get to a court martial status regardless of the facts.  They will tell him to shut his mouth or face charges and sweep it all under the carpet.
> 
> Nobody will allow this PR disaster from seeing the inside of a court.  DoD PR > right and wrong.


The PR disaster is that we made a deal for a deserter. The Army could (should) tout the fact that we won't leave you behind, but your ass is still going to jail - not on a celebrity tour.


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## pardus (May 31, 2014)

Mac_NZ said:


> So if it does go to a court martial and he's found guilty of desertion will he actually go to the wall and be shot or will he just rot in gaol?



No way will an execution be on the cards. Honestly I'll be surprised if he does anytime at all, and if he does it'll be minimal. The link I posted in post #8 already has an "Official" talking about time served already is enough.
At a minimum I hope he loses all rank and is dishonorably discharged.


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## Kraut783 (May 31, 2014)

....I wish we would have rescued the British K9 from the Taliban.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2014)

Kraut783 said:


> ....I wish we would have rescued the British K9 from the Taliban.


I swear I was just thinking of that pup this weekend and wondering if anything "official" had become of it. Sad.


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## Centermass (May 31, 2014)

Concerning Bergdahl, there's this, from a Soldier that was supposedly there on the ground: Jeff Howard. 

"We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little “out there”. Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him. 

He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are. We get hits on our voice intercepter that Taliban has him, and we were close. We come to realize that the kid deserted his post, snuck out of camp and sought out Taliban… to join them. We were in a defensive position at OP Mest, where your focus is to keep people out.

 He knew where the blind spots were to slip out and that's what he did. It was supposed to be a 4-day mission but turned into several months of active searching. Everyone was spun up to find this guy. News outlets all over the country were putting out false information. It was hard to see, especially when we knew the truth about what happened and we lost good men trying to find him. 

PFC Matthew Michael Martinek, Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss, SSG Clayton Bowen, PFC Morris Walker, SSG Michael Murphrey, 2LT Darryn Andrews, were all KIA from our unit who died looking for Bergdahl. Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl. Fighting Increased. IEDs and enemy ambushes increased. The Taliban knew that we were looking for him in high numbers and our movements were predictable. 

Because of Bergdahl, more men were out in danger, and more attacks on friendly camps and positions were conducted while we were out looking for him. His actions impacted the region more than anyone wants to admit. There is also no way to know what he told the Taliban: Our movements, locations, tactics, weak points on vehicles and other things for the enemy to exploit are just a few possibilities. The Government knows full well that he deserted. It looks bad and is a good propaganda piece for the Taliban. They refuse to acknowledge it. Hell they even promoted him to Sergeant which makes me sick. I feel for his family who only want their son/brother back. 

They don’t know the truth, or refuse to acknowledge it as well. What he did affected his family and his whole town back home, who don’t know the truth. Either way what matters is that good men died because of him. He has been lying on all those Taliban videos about everything since his “capture”. If he ever returns, he should be tried under the UCMJ for being a deserter and judged for what he did. Bergdahl is not a hero, he is not a soldier or an Infantryman. He failed his brothers. Now, sons and daughters are growing up without their fathers who died for him and he will have to face that truth someday."


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## DA SWO (May 31, 2014)

Centermass said:


> Concerning Bergdahl, there's this, from a Soldier that was supposedly there on the ground: Jeff Howard.
> 
> "We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little “out there”. Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him.
> 
> ...


Do you have a link?

This is something that needs to be out there, and a link increases credibility.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2014)

I know many on this board think little of Rolling Stone, but I happened upon this article from 2012 while trying to find a source for the quote that @Centermass posted. 

Long, but interested reading if it is to be believed. 

http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607


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## Centermass (May 31, 2014)

Centermass said:


> Concerning Bergdahl, there's this, from a Soldier that was* supposedly there on the ground*: Jeff Howard.





SOWT said:


> *Do you have a link?*
> 
> This is something that needs to be out there, and a link increases credibility.



I received it from a Ranger Buddy that's credible, but that's why I framed this as a "Caveat" in the first sentence as I asked the same thing and still waiting.


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## Ranger Psych (May 31, 2014)

It's totally chuckleworthy that everything from ALASKA when he deserted never went viral, or is being repeated.

Everyone in the 501st said he was a deserter IN COMBAT. The news even reported it. Unfortunately, that's all being pushed to the wayside because yay we have him home


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## Centermass (May 31, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> It's totally chuckleworthy that everything from ALASKA when he deserted never went viral, or is being repeated.
> 
> Everyone in the 501st said he was a deserter IN COMBAT. The news even reported it. Unfortunately, that's all being pushed to the wayside because yay we have him home



FWIW, 2 very credible sources have corroborated the excerpt I posted. If you want the names, PM me.


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## Ranger Psych (May 31, 2014)

Oh, I know the fucker deserted. I'm glad he's home, and he should get pegged by chantiqua manning in a shared cell at leavenworth till old and grey.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2014)

Daddy is not doing the good Sergeant any favors:

https://mobile.twitter.com/kesgardner/status/472933087475535872/photo/1

Twitter: 
@bobbergdahl


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## racing_kitty (May 31, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> Daddy is not doing the good Sergeant any favors:
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/kesgardner/status/472933087475535872/photo/1
> 
> ...



A platitude about apples and trees comes to mind.


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## pardus (Jun 1, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> Daddy is not doing the good Sergeant any favors:
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/kesgardner/status/472933087475535872/photo/1
> 
> ...



That cunt can hang too.


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## Rabid Badger (Jun 1, 2014)

OUR "horrible" CUNT president - Obama is being accused of breaking the law by the GOP. I hope this goes high and fast:



> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/republicans-obama-broke-law-prisoner-exchange-bowe-bergdahl
> WASHINGTON (AP) — Two Republican lawmakers on Saturday accused President Barack Obama of breaking the law by approving the release of five Afghan detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in exchange for a U.S. soldier believed held by Islamist insurgents for five years.
> The White House agreed that actions were taken "*in spite of legal requirements"* and cited "unique and exigent circumstances" as justification.



Demospeak for "broke the law"

Please do not alter a politicians name to insult them. Regardless of justification.  Thank you, pardus, Moderator. 

*ETA edited to appease the left......JK*  "Horrible" being and adjective - so can be construed "cunt".  



Further edited to add: After discussion with members of staff over this type of issue, disregard my previous edit and post that I have struck through.  Pardus


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2014)

My favorite part is where @pardus goes from calling Bergdahl's father a "cunt" in one thread, to (very politely) reminding folks to use the proper spelling of politicians names in the very next thread.  Somehow that shit me laugh out loud this morning.


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## Swill (Jun 1, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> ALLLLLL the other BS associated with him AND we release (errr, "exchange") some terrorists for this dude AND his first communication is to inquire who rescued him? SF? Dick fuck, you are finally a free man, WTF does it matter WHO picked you up? SF, SEALS, Boy Scout Troop 1, Greenpeace....hell, anyone but Jesse Jackson? No..."God Bless America" or "Is this real" or "I'm finally going home?!" or anything...he gathers intel.



This. Really strange. Talibananas talk idiots into being suicide bombers. It's gotta be easier to talk someone into "being exchanged" so you can get 5 proven fighters back. Win-win for TB. Lose the excess baggage; Gain 5 pissed off, well-fed recidivists.

If only there were a law in place to prevent such short sighted decision making...


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## Chopstick (Jun 1, 2014)

And the Gitmo Gang is being welcomed home.
https://twitter.com/Borhan/status/473075775185223680/photo/1

BTW  "ABalki" on Bergdahl's dad's deleted tweet is a Taliban spokesman. How many Taliban spokesman do you have on your Twitter feed?


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2014)

Reading more about the dudes we released (that the Taliban hand picked)

I keep thinking this president cannot do anymore damage to this country than he already has, I keep being wrong.


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## Kraut783 (Jun 1, 2014)

"The detainees are among the most senior Afghans still held at the prison. They are:
:: Abdul Haq Wasiq, who served as the Taliban deputy minister of intelligence
:: Mullah Norullah Nori, a senior Taliban commander in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif when the Taliban fought U.S. forces in late 2001
:: Khairullah Khairkhwa, who served in various Taliban positions including interior minister and had direct ties to Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden
:: Mohammed Nabi, who served as chief of security for the Taliban in Qalat, Afghanistan, and later worked as a radio operator for the Taliban's communications office in Kabul
:: Mohammad Fazl, whom Human Rights Watch says could be prosecuted for war crimes for presiding over the mass killing of Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan in 2000 and 2001 as the Taliban sought to consolidate their control over the country."

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/freed-us-soldier-arrives-in-germany


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## Viper1 (Jun 1, 2014)

I'm hopeful that we have some way of keeping track of the ones we've released.  I am also hopeful that the information SGT Bergdahl may provide outweighs the negative consequences of releasing TB leadership.  I am also hopeful that the TB leaders released have been out of the fight too long to make a serious impact, however, a dozen years thinking in a cell is a long time to formulate a plan.  Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for twice as long and was able to take his mind into leadership of South Africa.

We shall see...


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## AWP (Jun 1, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> My favorite part is where @pardus goes from calling Bergdahl's father a "cunt" in one thread, to (very politely) reminding folks to use the proper spelling of politicians names in the very next thread.  Somehow that shit me laugh out loud this morning.



Ever have an officer who was a total shitbag, but you called him "Sir" regardless? The correction is about the office, not the man, and will be made for any politician when we catch it. 

I personally think Obama is a..."horrible" president. 

At any rate, we'll move on from this discussion and return to Bergdahl's Folly.


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## Centermass (Jun 1, 2014)

Here's another that would appear to solidify some of the assertions.

1/501 Soldiers' 1st Hand Accounting Refutes Stories

Based on his detail, I wouldn't have any reason to doubt him.


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## Chopstick (Jun 1, 2014)

I just find it an amazing coincidence that Bergdahl's family just happened to be in Washington D.C. on that particular day.  Also this video is just plain...weird.  Check out dear old Dad at about 4:08.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 1, 2014)

Chopstick said:


> I just find it an amazing coincidence that Bergdahl's family just happened to be in Washington D.C. on that particular day.  Also this video is just plain...weird.  Check out dear old Dad at about 4:08.



I doubt it was a coincidence. Don't you think they have been working this out for months?


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## CQB (Jun 1, 2014)

Oh boy, that twitter feed is pretty interesting.


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## Chopstick (Jun 1, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> I doubt it was a coincidence. Don't you think they have been working this out for months?


CNN doesnt think so.  And there is that 30 day notification of Congress thingy that has gone out the window. 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/world/asia/afghanistan-bergdahl-release/index.html



> Believing that his health was deteriorating, the United States acted quickly to save his life after years of work to free him from being a prisoner of war, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Sunday.
> 
> "It was our judgment that if we could find an opening and move very quickly with that opening, that we needed to get him out of there essentially to save his life," Hagel said. "I know President Obama feels very strongly about that, I do as well."





> McKeon said his staff was notified by the Defense Department Saturday after the exchange took place, but he pointed to a law that requires the administration to notify Congress 30 days before detainees are released from the facilities at Guantanamo Bay.
> 
> Rice said Sunday that the "acute urgency" of Bergdahl's declining health justified the administration's decision to execute the swap without telling Congress.
> 
> "It was determined that it was necessary and appropriate not to adhere to the 30-day notification requirement, because it would have potentially meant that the opportunity to get Sgt. Bergdahl would have been lost," she said.



I wonder if was all that badminton that caused his health to diminish so rapidly?
http://news.yahoo.com/freed-us-soldier-celebrated-xmas-played-badminton-captors-181447547.html



> "He loved badminton and always played badminton with his handlers. In fact, he taught many fighters about the game," he added.


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## Dame (Jun 1, 2014)

Brad Thor has an interesting article on this. He says Bergdahl wasn't held by the Taliban but by the Haqqanis.



> Contrary to press reports, the Afghan Taliban – aka the Quetta Shura – never had their hands on Sgt. Bergdahl.  He was always under the control of the Haqqani network.



http://www.theblaze.com/contributio...the-capture-and-release-of-sgt-bowe-bergdahl/


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## Gypsy (Jun 1, 2014)

So we negotiate with terrorists to get this guy back.  Great, let's put a bounty on every American head while we are at it.

What a huge fucking slap in the face to those who died or were hurt while in battle to capture those shitbags that were released in the first place.


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## Centermass (Jun 1, 2014)

5 politicians in exchange would have a much better deal.......


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2014)

What I want to know is...who "didn't" we bargain with terrorists for and had them lost. 
This is the most overtly political play I have ever seen, the precedent being set is terrifying...we have just given them a reason to at least try and snatch more of our folks.


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## Pharaoh19XX (Jun 1, 2014)

He should say sorry personally to everyone who lost their loved ones looking for him.But he probably won't because he's writing a NY times best seller and talking to Micheal Bay to make a movie with him saving the SF at the end.


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## Pharaoh19XX (Jun 1, 2014)

Centermass said:


> 5 politicians in exchange would have a much better deal.......


I got my five how about you.


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## Scotth (Jun 1, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> What I want to know is...who "didn't" we bargain with terrorists for and had them lost.
> This is the most overtly political play I have ever seen, the precedent being set is terrifying...we have just given them a reason to at least try and snatch more of our folks.



It's the same deal that was offered in '09 that they didn't make at the time.  We are leaving and '14 is a much different time.  We had to make a deal now before we leave.  It doesn't mean we should give the guy a free pass Go without consequence but if we didn't make a deal everyone would have criticized the administration for leaving him behind.  The administration was going to get criticized regardless of what they did.


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## DA SWO (Jun 1, 2014)

Scotth said:


> It's the same deal that was offered in '09 that they didn't make at the time.  We are leaving and '14 is a much different time.  We had to make a deal now before we leave.  It doesn't mean we should give the guy a free pass Go without consequence but if we didn't make a deal everyone would have criticized the administration for leaving him behind.  The administration was going to get criticized regardless of what they did.


Did the deal gel in 24 hours?
They could have at least given Congress a heads-up before CNN got the heads up.

He fucked up, and I suspect his treatment declined once he was sold to HQN (?).

He'll get the med care he deserves, but he should also have to explain 9as a minimum) why he left the COP, and that explanation should be pushed by DoD.

That would put a damper on his book/movie deals.


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## Scotth (Jun 1, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Did the deal gel in 24 hours?
> They could have at least given Congress a heads-up before CNN got the heads up.
> 
> He fucked up, and I suspect his treatment declined once he was sold to HQN (?).
> ...



Hagel did warn the appropriate committee chairs prior to the deal.  What are you going to do?  Try an make a deal when congress knows about it so some random congressman can break the story to the press and screw the pouch on the whole deal.  Or is the administration suppose to negotiate with 535 members of congress on what they feel is an acceptable deal before he has to negotiate with the other side?  How many Presidents, involved in prisoner negotiation cleared those negotiation with congress in the past prior to the deal being made?  Hell when has America ever got the better end of a prisoner exchange, ever.

Nothing Obama did was ever going to be acceptable to Republicans period.  The prisoners involved, whether he got the kid back or not he was going to get shit.

Maybe Obama should have sold them missiles in exchange for the kid.  It would have made it harder for Republicans to criticize him.


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## Teufel (Jun 2, 2014)

Haven't we done prisoner exchanges in the past?  I'm not saying we should or should not have just looking at historical precedent.  

I can't imagine what kind of cruelties he suffered while a prisoner.  He is a dumbass, possibly a traitor (honestly he seems more like an idiot than a bonafide traitor) but no one deserves 5 years or so of repeated terrorist boom boom and other tortures.


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## pardus (Jun 2, 2014)

Teufel said:


> Haven't we done prisoner exchanges in the past?  I'm not saying we should or should not have just looking at historical precedent.
> 
> I can't imagine what kind of cruelties he suffered while a prisoner.  He is a dumbass, possibly a traitor (honestly he seems more like an idiot than a bonafide traitor) but no one deserves 5 years or so of repeated terrorist boom boom and other tortures.



Point by point.
Can you cite any? 
Isn't also law that we don't negotiate with terrorists? 
Reap what you sow...
As to your last sentence... really? How many Americans and allies died as a direct result of his desertion? That's OK? 

I promise you, that what I would do to him would be FAR worse than what the Islamists did to him, and he wouldn't be able to write any books afterwards.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 2, 2014)

POW exchange is common practice in every war; TB detainees held by the United States are POW’s. Bergdhal was listed by us as POW.

I don’t disagree with all the chiming in on that he is a traitor, it definitely looks that way, but some investigations need to happen, a trial needs to be held before he is convicted and sentenced. The best thing right now, is to continue asking questions, and finding answers, as this is just the first scratch in the surface of getting positive control of him. If he is a traitor, we need to know exactly what all he gave to the enemy, TTP’s alone is a nightmare, what he may have been able to gain before his capture is what concerns me the most, as its not hard to download a shit load of FM’s and TM’s on a thumb drive and carry that off without anyone knowing. If those tweets are even half accurate, this dude planned this for a long time. Either way, we should all wait on the persecutions and demand an investigation take place.


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## DA SWO (Jun 2, 2014)

Scotth said:


> Hagel did warn the appropriate committee chairs prior to the deal.  What are you going to do?  Try an make a deal when congress knows about it so some random congressman can break the story to the press and screw the pouch on the whole deal.  Or is the administration suppose to negotiate with 535 members of congress on what they feel is an acceptable deal before he has to negotiate with the other side?  How many Presidents, involved in prisoner negotiation cleared those negotiation with congress in the past prior to the deal being made?  Hell when has America ever got the better end of a prisoner exchange, ever.
> 
> Nothing Obama did was ever going to be acceptable to Republicans period.  The prisoners involved, whether he got the kid back or not he was going to get shit.
> 
> Maybe Obama should have sold them missiles in exchange for the kid.  It would have made it harder for Republicans to criticize him.


Supposedly we learned from the Missiles for Hostages debacle that exchanging toys/people for hostages/POW's doesn't work.

A-Q now has a price tag/per Service Member, lot of Americans available for grabbing (not just in Afghanistan) who are all worth 5 Senior Leaders.
Also, IIRC Iran-Contra led to the Tower Commission, and (The Democrat controlled) Congress issuing a report criticizing  the President.


----------



## Teufel (Jun 2, 2014)

pardus said:


> Point by point.
> Can you cite any?
> Isn't also law that we don't negotiate with terrorists?
> Reap what you sow...
> ...



Bowe Berdahl is an idiot and a deserter. I've heard different accountings of why he deserted though.  I had heard that he left the FOB to go to a "party" in town his terp had told him about. We also know he left all his serialized gear behind. By all accounts he was a shitty soldier.

Private Berdahl (I don't recognize his promotions in absentia) caused significant damage with his actions and good people died trying to save him.  He should be court martialed and punished for his actions. I don't classify him in the same category of traitor as the terrorist Nadal Hussein though. Bowe seemed to be a lonely soldier who felt he was an outsider in  his unit and made an incredibly naive and stupid decision. One that he must be punished for.

Pardus I seriously doubt you could do anything to Bowe Berdahl that would even compare to five years of repeated torture and gang rape by the Taliban. Or Haqqani. Anyone who has spent time in Afghanistan knows that's what's happened to Private Berdahl. He basically went to SERE for five years except replace the slapping with rape. I understand he brought it on himself but I wouldn't wish that level of suffering on anyone.


----------



## pardus (Jun 2, 2014)

Teufel said:


> Bowe Berdahl is an idiot and a deserter. I've heard different accountings of why he deserted though.  I had heard that he left the FOB to go to a "party" in town his terp had told him about. We also know he left all his serialized gear behind. By all accounts he was a shitty soldier.
> 
> Private Berdahl (I don't recognize his promotions in absentia) caused significant damage with his actions and good people died trying to save him.  He should be court martialed and punished for his actions. I don't classify him in the same category of traitor as the terrorist Nadal Hussein though. Bowe seemed to be a lonely soldier who felt he was an outsider in  his unit and made an incredibly naive and stupid decision. One that he must be punished for.
> 
> Pardus I seriously doubt you could do anything to Bowe Berdahl that would even compare to five years of repeated torture and gang rape by the Taliban. Or Haqqani. Anyone who has spent time in Afghanistan knows that's what's happened to Private Berdahl. He basically went to SERE for five years except replace the slapping with rape. I understand he brought it on himself but I wouldn't wish that level of suffering on anyone.



Good points. 
I would like to see proof of his actions then see him executed if it's proven that he did deliberately go over to the enemy. I really don't care what happened to him while he was in captivity, reap what you sow. It is possible his was an innocent, naive, stupid set of actions, but I want to see proof, either way.


----------



## Teufel (Jun 2, 2014)

pardus said:


> Good points.
> I would like to see proof of his actions then see him executed if it's proven that he did deliberately go over to the enemy. I really don't care what happened to him while he was in captivity, reap what you sow. It is possible his was an innocent, naive, stupid set of actions, but I want to see proof, either way.



You know what Pardus, to be honest, it really doesn't matter what his motivations were to some degree.  He deserted and then people died trying to get him back.  He is guilty whether he is a malicious traitor or just a dumbass looking to hit a party.  That being said, I am confident that he will not see a courtroom because of his actions regardless of how much he deserves to be in one.  Politics trump justice every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  You don't trade five high level Taliban for an American soldier and then charge him with treason.  Easier for the masses to stomach if he is hailed as a hero.  Truth isn't about what really happened, nowadays it's what perception, propaganda and information operations (which our government and media run on the American population all the time) tell us happened.  Just like how the Army recreated the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tilman stories to fit their narratives, or how the Nasan Hidal shootings were recreated as work place violence instead of terrorism, the government will control the way this is perceived as well.


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## Scotth (Jun 2, 2014)

This whole thing was a big shit sandwich the moment he left his base and was taken.

There is only one question to be asked and that is do we leave someone behind?  If your answer is no then you have to pay the price of having that position and that is what we did.

Everything else is meaningless.  Do we negotiate with terrorist, yes we do if they are holding an American soldier prisoner because who else do you talk to?  That is the commitment we made to our brothers.  Even if they were wrong.


----------



## pardus (Jun 2, 2014)

Teufel said:


> You know what Pardus, to be honest, it really doesn't matter what his motivations were to some degree.  He deserted and then people died trying to get him back.  He is guilty whether he is a malicious traitor or just a dumbass looking to hit a party.  That being said, I am confident that he will not see a courtroom because of his actions regardless of how much he deserves to be in one.  Politics trump justice every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  You don't trade five high level Taliban for an American soldier and then charge him with treason.  Easier for the masses to stomach if he is hailed as a hero.  Truth isn't about what really happened, nowadays it's what perception, propaganda and information operations (which our government and media run on the American population all the time) tell us happened.  Just like how the Army recreated the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tilman stories to fit their narratives, or how the Nasan Hidal shootings were recreated as work place violence instead of terrorism, the government will control the way this is perceived as well.



Yeah, I agree. Sad state of affairs...


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## AWP (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm sitting at Dulles and catching up on this abortion. I'm sickened by the whole thing, start to finish.

I'm so angry and disgusted by it all.


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## Teufel (Jun 2, 2014)

The even weirder part is that his dad has practically turned into Mullah Berdahl on twitter and is blasting out some really pro-Taliban stuff.  This whole thing reeks.  I don't think we will ever know what the heck is going on.  They should probably put the dad in the defendant's table with his son.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 2, 2014)

I can't blame the father for trying to win favourable viewing from the TB in order to secure his sons release. "Look I've become a Muslim, I support you guys, please give me my son back". I think any father would do that to secure his sons life and or freedom.

That said, he has his son back, if I was the father in this situation at this point, I would be doing what I can to ensure everyone who had a hand in his sons capture get a hell fire in their living room during dinner time.

Something that I've been kind of wondering is if his health had been going down hill, and we know that the booger-eaters are rump pirates, and that HIV runs rampant in Afghanistan, I'm wondering if this kid got a death sentience and is just finding out about it. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, and I doubt his dad will keep up the "thanks TB" bit once he finds out...


LOL let the rumours begin.

Little tid-bit some may not know, Jack Idmon the guy who went to Afghan prison for running a private prison/torture site, died of AIDs back in 2012 that he supposedly said he contracted after being raped in Afghan prison.


----------



## Red Ryder (Jun 2, 2014)

http://www.oafnation.com/guests-pieces/2014/6/2/oaf-exclusive-the-truth-about-bowe-bagdahl


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## compforce (Jun 2, 2014)

the best one liner I've seen yet was "So we traded 5 Taliban leaders for a deserter, can't we trade 20 million illegals for a Marine?"


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 2, 2014)

Sad part about that Marine being held in Mexico, broke the law or not, by all accounts, the Mexican's are straight up torturing the shit out of him. I cannot believe nothing has been done to get that guy home…


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## pardus (Jun 2, 2014)

It is an absolute disgrace that the Marine is still in a Mexican jail.



JAB said:


> I can't blame the father for trying to win favourable viewing from the TB in order to secure his sons release. "Look I've become a Muslim, I support you guys, please give me my son back". I think any father would do that to secure his sons life and or freedom.
> 
> That said, he has his son back, if I was the father in this situation at this point, I would be doing what I can to ensure everyone who had a hand in his sons capture get a hell fire in their living room during dinner time.
> 
> ...



I would hardly call an HIV rate of less than 0.1% "rampant".

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/afghanistan_statistics.html


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## Rabid Badger (Jun 3, 2014)

@Teufel @Scotth 

Would you hold the same position if one of your troops pulled the same stunt??
Would you hold the same position if he were one of your troops that you had disciplined on many occasions for being a shitbag?
Would you hold the same position if you lost 6 super Marine's searching for said shitbag traitor deserter?
The fukn MSM (left) is so prevalent at posting up crying sniveling parents who had an active shooter as a son, or even as a victim of an active shooter, so now let's see the *PARENTS OF THE 6 DEAD SOLDIERS THAT DIED WHILE SEARCHING FOR A TRAITOR AND DESERTER* cry on MSM. It's coming, and there won't be a dry eye in the Nation.

I'd *LOVE* to hear what THEY say about traitor Bowe Bergdahl.


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## Chopstick (Jun 3, 2014)

These guys are publicly  going on record.  

http://video.foxnews.com/v/36022196...ates-speak-out-about-bergdahl-/#sp=show-clips


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## Pharaoh19XX (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm sick of people taking this guys defense.How is he a hero when he taught the taliban some tactics killed some of his brothers and he deserted his position.

In my eyes he's edtwat snowdens brother the only difference is one was being held for 5 years getting ff'ed and dp'ed and the other leaked secrets. He should go meet his brothers from the 25th in a empty barracks and let them talk about what happened if you know what i mean.Screw the wool being pulled over their eyes these people where born blind.


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## Scotth (Jun 3, 2014)

RB said:


> @Teufel @Scotth
> 
> Would you hold the same position if one of your troops pulled the same stunt??
> Would you hold the same position if he were one of your troops that you had disciplined on many occasions for being a shitbag?
> ...



For me, you don't leave a soldier behind in the hands of the enemy, period.  We as a military or society don't get to pass judgement on who gets left behind and who doesn't. With all the POW/MIA stuff we went through after Vietnam I can't even believe we are having discussions that we should leave people behind, especially from other military members.

Do I think the military will pursue charges against the guy?  A few days ago I would have said absolutely not.  Today with the outcry from vets who were there I'm not so sure.  Would I have a problem with charges being filed against him absolutely not.  Our military should be the ones handing out the justice for this guys actions and not our enemies.

Bring the kid back has nothing to do with supporting his actions, it about what we stand for in the military.  I hope the military doesn't just white wash this whole thing because the stink is to big.  Do I think that is what will happen, probably 50-50 right now.


----------



## Teufel (Jun 3, 2014)

RB said:


> @Teufel @Scotth
> 
> Would you hold the same position if one of your troops pulled the same stunt??
> Would you hold the same position if he were one of your troops that you had disciplined on many occasions for being a shitbag?
> ...



What's my position?  I think he's either a deserter or a traitor and should be punished accordingly.  By various accounts he either snuck off the FOB to escape to China, go to a party in town or deserted to the Taliban with TTPs/SOPs.  In any event I think an investigation should be conducted to ascertain what happened and he should be court martialed for any of those three scenarios.  There is no scenario that I can think of where he should escape punishment.  I'm just not convinced the highly politicized DOD/Army will actually go through with it.  Now with all the veterans' backlash they may but who knows.  They may just slap him on the wrist to appease the masses.  

I fully believe that Pvt Bowe Bergdahl should be punished for his actions but I can also sympathize with the suffering of a young delusional idiot who made a stupid decision that cost a lot of people their lives.  I don't think this should reduce his punishment and I don't think we should have traded 5 Taliban leaders for him. On a human level though I am glad that he is home and is no longer being gang raped and tortured by the Taliban.  We all have to pay for the decisions we make but he should receive a clean and professional punishment at our hands such as imprisonment or the death penalty.


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## Chopstick (Jun 3, 2014)

Just saw this on the news.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/3/joint-chiefs-chairman-dempsey-army-still-may-pursu/



> Gen. Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Tuesday the Army may still pursue an investigation into the conduct of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was recently freed after nearly five years of being held captive in Afghanistan.
> 
> Gen. Dempsey told the Associated Press that U.S. military leaders “have been accused of looking away from misconduct” but said “it’s premature” to assume they would do so in Sgt. Bergdahl’s case.


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## Rabid Badger (Jun 3, 2014)

Great answers!

@Scotth I really don't think any of the .mil members here are/were for leaving him behind. The consensus, to me, looks as though most would have wanted the TB to just release the turd and for him to have walked his ass back to a firebase the same way he left. Obviously the bang for the buck ratio was too high and the TB/HAQ got what they wanted from this admin. "Here he is but we want 5 of ours" (along with loss of life was waaaaaaaay too high a price to pay for that traitor).

We'll still be in Astan for a few more years, we could have waited instead of negotiating with the TB/HAQ. I think he deserves more butt-raping than he got as a little Sirajuddin Haqqani anal bitch boy, but that's IMHO.

2c


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## Scotth (Jun 3, 2014)

RB said:


> @Scotth I really don't think any of the .mil members *here* are/were for leaving him behind.



/agreed and I should have stated that more clearly.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 3, 2014)

Given by all accounts that he willing straight up moved to and linked up with the durka durka muhammed jihad squad, I actually tend to believe that his anal tension has remained as intact as it was prior to his step-off from friendly lines. Then again, especially since he took the stroll on his own volition by all accounts... perhaps he was into that kinda thing as well.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2014)

The more I read if this, the more physically ill I become. 

DOHA (Reuters) - Qatar has moved five Afghan Taliban prisoners freed in exchange for a U.S. soldier to a residential compound and will let them move freely in the country, a senior Gulf official said on Tuesday, a step likely to be scrutinized by Washington.

http://news.yahoo.com/qatar-allowing-freed-taliban-men-move-freely-country-130028784.html


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## Teufel (Jun 3, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> Given by all accounts that he willing straight up moved to and linked up with the durka durka muhammed jihad squad, I actually tend to believe that his anal tension has remained as intact as it was prior to his step-off from friendly lines. Then again, especially since he took the stroll on his own volition by all accounts... perhaps he was into that kinda thing as well.


 
Well they routinely boonga boonga their own people I doubt he maintained anal virginity.  I don't think they cared if he went willingly or not, I'm sure they treated him as a prisoner and play thing.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 3, 2014)

There was a report a while back that he failed at an attempted escape, I think it was early 2013 if I can remember correctly. I have no doubt he was a prisoner and was very much used and abused.

I'll look around for the article regarding his attempted escape.

ETA:


----------



## AWP (Jun 3, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> The more I read if this, the more physically ill I become.
> 
> DOHA (Reuters) - Qatar has moved five Afghan Taliban prisoners freed in exchange for a U.S. soldier to a residential compound and will let them move freely in the country, a senior Gulf official said on Tuesday, a step likely to be scrutinized by Washington.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/qatar-allowing-freed-taliban-men-move-freely-country-130028784.html



Qatar is more or less a jihadi-friendly country. It pisses me off to no end that our major airbase in the region resides there. While we've begun to upgrade other bases in other countries I don't know if we'll ever be free of that miserable turd bucket. Qatar is becoming the Gulf's version of Pakistan: they take our money, openly support the jihadis, and complain when we try to involve ourselves in their bidness. They're just dirty.


----------



## Chopstick (Jun 3, 2014)

That sound you hear is me banging my head off of my computer desk.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/03/Obama-Sorry-I-Broke-The-Law



> *A top aide to President Obama is now apologizing to Congress for not informing lawmakers, as required by law, that the White House was planning to trade an alleged deserter for five top Taliban commanders. *
> The apology comes after Obama himself defended his actions this morning, insisting his administration had discussed the release with Congress “for some time.”
> 
> Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) told reporters that she received a call from Deputy National Security Adviser Tony Blinken on Monday evening apologizing for failing to inform Congress about the deal to exchange five Taliban detainees for the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl.
> ...


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 3, 2014)

Scotth said:


> *Hagel did warn the appropriate committee chairs prior to the deal*.  What are you going to do?  Try an make a deal when congress knows about it so some random congressman can break the story to the press and screw the pouch on the whole deal.  Or is the administration suppose to negotiate with 535 members of congress on what they feel is an acceptable deal before he has to negotiate with the other side?  How many Presidents, involved in prisoner negotiation cleared those negotiation with congress in the past prior to the deal being made?  Hell when has America ever got the better end of a prisoner exchange, ever.
> 
> Nothing Obama did was ever going to be acceptable to Republicans period.  The prisoners involved, whether he got the kid back or not he was going to get shit.
> 
> Maybe Obama should have sold them missiles in exchange for the kid.  It would have made it harder for Republicans to criticize him.







Chopstick said:


> That sound you hear is me banging my head off of my computer desk.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/03/Obama-Sorry-I-Broke-The-Law



Apparently hagel didn't notify the correct individuals, neither did the White House.


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## Dame (Jun 3, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Apparently hagel didn't notify the correct individuals, neither did the White House.


I'm sure the first the president heard about it was from CNN.




Scotth said:


> Nothing Obama did was ever going to be acceptable to Republicans period.  The prisoners involved, whether he got the kid back or not he was going to get shit.
> 
> Maybe Obama should have sold them missiles in exchange for the kid.  It would have made it harder for Republicans to criticize him.


Or maybe he could try telling the truth for once.


> "Feinstein said that in previous conversations with Senators about the trade,* “there were very strong views and they were virtually unanimous against trade.”*
> 
> *“The White House is pretty unilateral about what they want to do when they want to do it,” *she added, pointing out that the White House failed to work together with Congress in the situation."


----------



## Scotth (Jun 3, 2014)

I read that today as well.  If they didn't notify people that was certainly a bone headed play on the administrations part.

If they can't show this deal materialized very quickly they need to really tighten up the reins and Obama better start looking for a new chief of staff.  That is just government management 101 stuff.


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## Viper1 (Jun 3, 2014)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...ng_prisoners_for_a_pow.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

Not trying to stir the pot, just more information.  Of course, the "details" mentioned by Senator McCain in the article could amount to something like, I don't know...maybe notifying members of Congress about the potential exchange, etc.

Also, an opinion piece with an alternative viewpoint.  I don't necessarily agree with the title but as I keep telling my guys: "Bergdahl is one of our own.  Don't forget that.  Read about the case, debate it, discuss it, but don't forget it."

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dalla...ood-deal-with-taliban-prisoner-exchange.html/


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## Gypsy (Jun 3, 2014)

Scotth said:


> There is only one question to be asked and that is do we leave someone behind?



Evidently yes, hundreds of them were abandoned in Vietnam.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm personally expecting the rapture to commence around dinner time. Feinstein actually questioning POTUS and Bergdahl??? Interesting times, indeed.


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## Gypsy (Jun 3, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> I'm personally expecting the rapture to commence around dinner time. Feinstein actually questioning POTUS and Bergdahl??? Interesting times, indeed.



Wonder if it will only be a softball or two...


----------



## Dame (Jun 3, 2014)

Scotth said:


> I read that today as well.  If they didn't notify people that was certainly a bone headed play on the administrations part.
> 
> If they can't show this deal materialized very quickly they need to really tighten up the reins and Obama better start looking for a new chief of staff.  That is just government management 101 stuff.


Apparently the WH foreign policy is literally, "Don't do stupid shit." 
FTFSI.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/dont-do-stupid-shit-president-obama-white-house-107293.html


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## Chopstick (Jun 3, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> I'm personally expecting the rapture to commence around dinner time. Feinstein actually questioning POTUS and Bergdahl??? Interesting times, indeed.


Add in Chris "Tingles" Matthews on that.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/144069-even-msnbcs-chris-matthews-questioning-taliban-prisoner-swap/



> As we’ve said before at IJR, the Obama administration knows it’s in trouble when one of its most ardent cheerleaders supporters, MSNBC’s Chris “Thrill up my Leg” Matthews, goes after the president.
> 
> On Monday’s _Hardball,_ Matthews did just that, questioning the wisdom of trading an AWOL and possibly treasonous soldier for terrorists:
> 
> *“He left his uniform behind, he left his rifle behind and he told people if he didn’t like the mission he was headed to Pakistan. What was he doing?”*


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 3, 2014)

HEY!! Wake up folks: It was the fault of the prior administration; you know....this is all Bush's fault.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 3, 2014)

A few things I do have questions about:

1) how did he mail all his shit home without that being on his CoC radar?

2) How did talk about "if I take off will you get in trouble" without some TL/SL reporting that shit up.

3) Why did this dude not get put on shit burning duty once he made comments about just "walking to china".

Its just seems like a whole hell of a lot of BS wrapped up in this one. I can't speak for common practice / sop in the 501st. But damn if he had some PFC saying shit like that on my unit, his ass would be off missions and get his dick broke off working like a slave and being watched very closely.

Either way I hope the full story comes out, b/c this whole ordeal is dipped in bullshit.


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## racing_kitty (Jun 3, 2014)

JAB said:


> A few things I do have questions about:
> 
> 1) how did he mail all his shit home without that being on his CoC radar?
> 
> ...



There are quite a few sources out there that have stated that discipline in that unit was a joke.  Their command was garbage, by several accounts.  In fact, the LT that gave the interview to Rolling Stone in 2012 was only with the company for just a few weeks, and then moved.  One soldier attested that LT Fancy's departure actually RAISED morale in that unit.  That being said, it's not a stretch to believe that an otherwise incompetent command wouldn't perk its collective ears up when a PFC mails all his shit back to the house (including the laptop) and the deployment is only halfway over.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2014)

Well, well, well. The plot thickens (a lot - Bergdahl under investigation before he bailed)

Fox News’ James Rosen is reporting that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was under investigation by US intelligence agencies- not only during his final stretch of duty in Afghanistan, but also during his alleged captivity among the Taliban.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/143903-intelligence-agencies-investigating-bowe-berghdahl/


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 3, 2014)

I can say that from 04-06 while AD and some from 07-08 as a civilian, what interaction I had collectively/individually with the 501st wasn't arguably stellar. Granted, 4/23 wasn't a shining light of righteousness by any means either, but when I'm a civilian working in a surplus shop and I have to hand reciept my personal VS-17's to a supply NCO so they can be able to do a DZ among other "bro tier" loans to make things happen... yeah... something's fucked up. Never mind the derp I saw while active duty.  Basically made it obvious that while the post was nice, there was no on-post transfers worth putting in a 4187 for within my MOS.

My first interaction with anyone from the 501'st was an outprocessing NCO trying to give me shit for wearing my CIB when I had earned my EIB "since you just get a CIB for showing up". I did a left face and stared at him over my right shoulder scroll with a statement of "I earned both, Sergeant. Have you?". He stormed off in a huff.


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## Viper1 (Jun 3, 2014)

JAB said:


> A few things I do have questions about:
> 
> 1) how did he mail all his shit home without that being on his CoC radar?
> 
> ...



JAB, good questions.  My BN had a few soldiers like this during OIF 05-06.  If a guy couldn't be "straightened up to fly right" via counseling, chaplain's time, small talk, or two days rest from patrolling (which for certain guys, in certain situations, was perfect to halt an impending depression), then he got moved onto the big FOB and placed on easy duty i.e. the internet and phone center for the duration of the deployment.  Catching those issues at the soldier level all comes from good NCOs from the team leader on up.  During this last OEF trip, a couple of soldiers were sent off the firebase because their heads weren't in the game.  Sometimes they just needed someone to talk e.g. the Padre.  In rare cases, a guy just was not fit to be in a combat infantry outfit.


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## Viper1 (Jun 3, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> There are quite a few sources out there that have stated that discipline in that unit was a joke.  Their command was garbage, by several accounts.  In fact, the LT that gave the interview to Rolling Stone in 2012 was only with the company for just a few weeks, and then moved.  One soldier attested that LT Fancy's departure actually RAISED morale in that unit.  That being said, it's not a stretch to believe that an otherwise incompetent command wouldn't perk its collective ears up when a PFC mails all his shit back to the house (including the laptop) and the deployment is only halfway over.



I know for some guys mailing stuff back home was a common occurrence if they just brought too much stuff over thinking they might have an easier time being on a larger FOB but found themselves out at firebase "middle of nowhere" instead.  That being said, is the LT you mentioned the one who gave the Rolling Stone interview?  PM me the info. 

You can see where I am going with this....small world.


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## Centermass (Jun 4, 2014)

Red Flag 1 said:


> HEY!! Wake up folks: It was the fault of the prior administration; you know....this is all Bush's fault.



Hang on. I think I have a wall chart line up stashed somewhere in order to help identify all the guilty parties involved......


----------



## Centermass (Jun 4, 2014)

OK. Pick one.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Jun 4, 2014)

Centermass said:


> OK. Pick one.
> 
> View attachment 10969



Bottom row, second from the right, or is it third from the left :-/..the Bush boys all look the same to me. No...wait, it's the guy with the hairy lip.


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done. 

My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND. 

These talking heads talking a big game? His unit members talking about how he deserted? That's their privilege. But they should know I would expend the exact same amount of effort if they were isolated. All Americans get equal treatment with recovery forces. 


We do what we must to get our service members back. Sometimes, that means someone's life. Sometimes the means we use are unpalatable. Everyone beating their chest about "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and this other nonsense? Fine. That's their prerogative. But the only reason you're granted that prerogative is because men stand ready to go get anyone, at any time, regardless of their transgressions or their personal feelings. I applaud this administration for doing what they had to do to get SGT Bergdahl back. I challenge anyone here to rationally discount the life of an American (regardless of after-the-fact character judgements).

I am truly sad for the men that may or may not have given their lives looking for him. Just like I am truly sad for the 10th Mtn Army Soldiers we lost in 2007. Just like I would be truly sad for SGT Bergdahl had he been killed in captivity. 

I urge everyone to please, stop and realize what we have- a lost Brother, back in America. We aren't perfect. None of us.


The Pararescue Motto (the only DOD force specifically trained and equipped for Personnel Rescue) states "That Others May Live". 

Notice that doesn't mention anything about the person's character, behavior, or actions. It simply says every single person wearing this uniform comes home. 

/Rant


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

Gypsy said:


> Evidently yes, hundreds of them were abandoned in Vietnam.


And that is a shame. A violent dirty shame.

I would like to think that, since then, we have learned. And that we are willing to never do that again. No matter the situation.


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## pardus (Jun 4, 2014)

A "Brother"? NO!
I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Am I glad he's back? Yes. Now I want him tried for what he did, and if he did what I think he did, executed.

I'll ask you one question, would you be saying the same thing if your entire team was killed getting him back? Worth it?



amlove21 said:


> And that is a shame. A violent dirty shame.
> 
> I would like to think that, since then, we have learned. And that we are willing to never do that again. No matter the situation.



I personally think that is a little naive. I accepted long ago that if I was captured that I was on my own. My life is worth nothing unless it's politically important.

That said, I fully believe that thousands of my fellow Military members would sacrifice their lives to get me, politicians and senior leadership in the Military would not.


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## Pharaoh19XX (Jun 4, 2014)

Rescue video.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27692636


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 4, 2014)

@pardus , not that @amlove21 needs me to defend him or his position, but his post did cause me to look at the case from another perspective - emotions aside, regardless of the circumstances of what caused him to be in that position,  Bergdahl was/is an American soldier who was being held by the enemy.  Stupid fucking kid at the time who may have been more brainwashed by his old man than we know.  I guess I should not be surprised that it was a Pararescue guy who caused me to look at this different, but his patch says it all "That others may live"...not..."that others may live, assuming those others were captured under the right circumstances"

Now here is where you will likely call me naive, and I will not disagree with you. I have to believe that there is more to this than we know, that we put some type of tracking dye on the 5 bad-guys, and after watching their movements for a year we'll drone their asses the moment they cross the border.  See I have to believe things like that, otherwise I'd never be able to sleep again knowing that my government gave these guys up, regardless of the prize.  Shit, Howie Mandell could have made a better deal.


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## compforce (Jun 4, 2014)

amlove21 said:


> So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done.
> 
> My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND.
> 
> ...



I've been pretty quiet about it so far.  I think you hit it on the head.  The one exception is that I don't think we should have traded, we should have continued to search and then gone in.  From the media accounts, we knew where he was at times but military "leaders" felt the risk was too high to recover a deserter.  That's bullshit.  He's OUR deserter.  If the risk was worth it for any other joe snuffy, it was worth it for him.  We get him back and then WE fry him in the court system if it's appropriate.  Once found guilty, then WE punish him, not leave him to rot without due process.  Bottom line, when he left he was an American Soldier and he should be treated like any other soldier all the way up to and including the court martial he deserves.  If he aided the enemy, as is being reported, then we make an example of him.  The death penalty _is_ still on the books after all.  But we do it according to our laws, not by passively allowing someone else to behead him.

What we don't do is trade a bunch of bad guys that will have major impact on the battlefield and cause untold deaths because they "might" not return to the fight.  I think all of us know they are going to go back to the battle as soon as they get the chance.  These guys aren't the fighters on the ground, they are strategists and symbols with a bone to pick.  They don't need to be in Afghanistan or Pakistan to cause us problems.  They can kill americans from Qatar. 

I wouldn't expect the Government to trade terrorist leaders for me had I been captured.  I'd expect to be looked for until someone found me and got me out.  If I died as a POW before that happened, I'd understand.  It is war after all.


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## CDG (Jun 4, 2014)

amlove21 said:


> I urge everyone to please, stop and realize what we have- a lost Brother, back in America. We aren't perfect. None of us.


 
Bowe Bergdahl forfeited his membership in the Brotherhood by willingly going over to the other side.  That's a far cry from simply being imperfect.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 4, 2014)

I'd rather have a 2k+ lb bomb dropped on my 10 digit, tbh. In fact, there was a request/authorization to that sort in some paperwork I filled out for a thing.  I'm good, fuck them with the biggest shit you can spare TYVM. Use the crater as a nose in a GAU-9 drawn happy face please.


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## Rabid Badger (Jun 4, 2014)

Big picture. If WE knew where he was on several occasions, why didn't WE go get him immediately....(sic- Jessica Lynch) *ACTIONS* have *CONSEQUENCES*. Big gubmint ABC's knew where he was all along but we held back, why? Because ABC knew where this was headed - more American lives lost for a traitor, more American blood spilled trying to rescue the enemy and bring him back to the US. "He" now walks among us. You have not heard the last of BRB, his 15min will last a long long time.

My thoughts on his "rescue"? - I call the "rescue" *THE CAPTURE*" of one who used to be us, but is now them. He could've faded into the internet abyss or been laying dead in a waddy somewhere and I would not have cared. He made his choice by walking out on his brothers. We broadcast the fact that he walked out in 2009 loud and clear and very few wanted to listen. "The Pentagon" concluded he walked out, deserted, and what did they do? Nada.

The cross is his to bear, not mine, nor should that cross be borne by any who searched for him, alive or in Valhalla. Celebrate their lives, not this loser traitor. Karma is coming. IMHO we should have waited until the termination of combat operations, not negotiated now prior to retrograde. There is now a price on all our heads.

@Ranger Psych You lost a few .civ folks with that last post.  I'd gladly stand in the overpressure wave and take yet another TBI test for it!!  Danger close.

@amlove21 I agree with a few of your points but at what point do you stop being an American citizen - at what point do you stop being an American soldier? You stop being an American citizen when you renounce your US citizenship. You stop being an American soldier when you take off your uniform and join the enemy. *At that point you are no longer my brother.*


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## Chopstick (Jun 4, 2014)

Frankly, from what the Obama Administration claimed that this deal had to be done so quickly that Congress couldnt even be notified, I expected to see Bergdahl on a stretcher.  He was able to stand and walk off under his own power.  He looked pretty good IMHO.  This just increases my skepticism over this "exchange". 
Thank God, for the men that went in to get him and for their safe and successful completion of their mission.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 4, 2014)

Chopstick said:


> Frankly, from what the Obama Administration claimed that this deal had to be done so quickly that Congress couldnt even be notified, I expected to see Bergdahl on a stretcher.  He was able to stand and walk off under his own power.  He looked pretty good IMHO.  This just increases my skepticism over this "exchange".
> Thank God, for the men that went in to get him and for their safe and successful completion of their mission.



Have you ever been in an isolation scenario? No matter how tired/sick I was I would have hopped my ass on that bird.

I also remember the code of conduct course I went to, and what it taught about returning with honor. That has two sides, the first is that "fuck him he is a traitor" feeling we all get. But now that he is back, some of the things he did while in captivity need to be looked at from the same code of conduct course teachings. He may have done what he did to survive, and none of us were there.We can forgive him for what he did in captivity(depending in what it was), but the events leading up to that captivity are still very much up for review. I have mixed feelings in the issue. I am glad he is back, but he needs to be held accountable for his actions prior to being taken.


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

pardus said:


> A "Brother"? NO!
> I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Am I glad he's back? Yes. Now I want him tried for what he did, and if he did what I think he did, executed.
> 
> I'll ask you one question, would you be saying the same thing if your entire team was killed getting him back? Worth it?
> ...


Agreed, if he violated the UCMJ while in captivity (or doing so led to his capture), then yes, punishment is appropriate and should be sought. 

We _have _had entire teams of guys killed getting one guy back, and yes, it is worth it, and yes, we will go out and do it again. This June 9th marks the anniversary of PEDRO 66. I lost 3 very close friends on that crash, and they died doing exactly what you're describing. They went out for someone they didn't know and got killed in the process. There has been some discussion about that mission- did they need to go, did the patient meet MEDROE and so forth- but it doesn't matter. Everyone comes home. "That Others May Live" isn't just something cute we say at commander's calls to get everyone all riled up. 

You can think that it's "naive" to think that our administration wouldn't risk anything to save you- isn't that the big deal now? That President Obama broke the law in favor of the rescue of an American?


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

compforce said:


> I've been pretty quiet about it so far.  I think you hit it on the head.  The one exception is that I don't think we should have traded, we should have continued to search and then gone in...
> 
> I wouldn't expect the Government to trade terrorist leaders for me had I been captured.  I'd expect to be looked for until someone found me and got me out.  If I died as a POW before that happened, I'd understand.  It is war after all.


Man, it aint that simple. I get what you're saying, but after sitting in the rooms where this guy was discussed for the past 5 years, it's not like we had a tracker on him and were just 'biding our time'. 

I don't think the first thing we should do is trade prisoners either. But as far as returning Americans to friendly control, I will sign on from anything from wholesale slaughter to negotiation with known terror groups, and anything in between. I feel it's that important.


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

CDG said:


> Bowe Bergdahl forfeited his membership in the Brotherhood by willingly going over to the other side.  That's a far cry from simply being imperfect.


And that's your opinion to have, its just not one that I will sign on to. Until you're found guilty and formally discharged on sovereign US territory, I don't care what you did. 

It's a dramatic example- but just imagine the slippery slope we are talking about in reality here. So, what- are we going to have a character review board before PR ops now? "Listen guys, we have a guy thats isolated- turns out he's a shitty dude. Yea, he's an American that's still _technically _in the service, but he shouldn't be. Let's pass on this one. PJ's/SF/TRAP/Whoever, stand down guys, we decided this guy has earned his captivity."


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

RB said:


> @amlove21 I agree with a few of your points but at what point do you stop being an American citizen - at what point do you stop being an American soldier? You stop being an American citizen when you renounce your US citizenship. You stop being an American soldier when you take off your uniform and join the enemy. *At that point you are no longer my brother.*


I see what you're saying, I just violently disagree. I couldn't do my job if I started playing that game. And until we talk to Bowe and get him reintegrated- which could take years, BTW- we aren't going to know the story. 

And even if it comes out that yes, he did the worst of what everyone suspects- well, great. He can stand trial and we can spit on him and tell him he's shit and how he's not our brother any more. But we will do that in Kansas, or DC, or Texas.


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## amlove21 (Jun 4, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> Have you ever been in an isolation scenario? No matter how tired/sick I was I would have hopped my ass on that bird.
> 
> I also remember the code if conduct course I went to, and what it taught about returning with honor. That has two sides, the first is that fuck him he is a traitor feeling we all get. But now that he is back, some of the things he did while in captivity need to be looked at from the same code of conduct course teachings, he may have done what he did to survive, and none of us were there.We can forgive him for what he did in captivity(depending in what it was), but the events leading up to that captivity are still very much up for review. I have mixed feelings in the issue. I am glad he is back, but he needs to be held accountable for his actions prior to being taken.


THIS.

Well said. For the record, those aren't mixed feelings at all. I feel the same way. 

I am glad he is back. I feel personal joy knowing that he is alive, in our control, and he will see his mother and father soon. But if he violated the UCMJ, and most importantly if that led to the deaths of other service members directly- then he should be punished to the full extent of the military judicial system. I don't feel those two things are mutually exclusive.


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## AWP (Jun 4, 2014)

All Americans should come home...whether that's to Ft. Livingroom or Ft. Leavenworth. I think Bergdahl's a steaming pile of crap, but I'm glad he's back so we can interrogate him, investigate him, try him, and hopefully convict him for his crimes. He deserves his day in court...here in America.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 4, 2014)

I have to say that Amlove21 is right. He can rot in a prison of our own design once he's found guilty of his crimes under the ucmj.


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## Chopstick (Jun 4, 2014)

I know this is a dumb question but it is a detail that is just making me so curious.  Ive watched the version of the release video that is posted here: http://www.funker530.com/video-shows-taliban-releasing-bergdahl/

Bergdahl appears to have a bag in his hand which I think the one one guy frisking him tosses on the ground and leaves it there.  It looks like they take off without checking inside that bag.  Why wouldnt they take it with them or even look in it or am I missing that part?


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## Chopstick (Jun 4, 2014)

Wow..the Blue Angels AND Leon Panetta in our fair city today.  
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/6228667-74/panetta-bergdahl-goe#axzz33ip1WYqZ



> “I don't fault the administration for wanting to get him back. I do question whether the conditions are in place to make sure these terrorists don't go back into battle,” former CIA director and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta told a gas industry gathering in Pittsburgh.
> 
> Panetta, who was in the Cabinet for four of the five years Bergdahl spent in Taliban custody, said he opposed a swap when Defense secretary.
> 
> ...


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## Scotth (Jun 4, 2014)

Here is Gen McCrystal's take on the subject.  See video in the link.
http://news.yahoo.com/mcchrystal-on...ocal-193638795.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

I think it captures the fact that we don't leave a person behind regardless of the cost and yet at the same time we don't absolve people of their actions and we hold them accountable if need be. I have always been a big McCrystal fan but having said that I still think he strikes the right balance here.

Hopefully, military leadership will have the proper resolve to do what is right and not what is lease objectionable PR wise.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 4, 2014)

I don't think it would be a PR problem if he is prosecuted.


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## racing_kitty (Jun 4, 2014)

I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick.  From Politico:



> The White House has been surprised by how much attention has remained on the questions about Bergdahl, from the circumstances of his disappearance to the wild beard his father grew while he was being held that’s even led to Bergdahl’s hometown canceling a celebration. All this, Obama aides say, is in their minds a proxy for the hatred toward the president.
> 
> The new approach: Frame the criticism as another example of Republicans complaining about something just because Obama was the one to do it.


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## Teufel (Jun 5, 2014)

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...heir-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan

Have you guys seen this?  A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban.  Turns out there was a war going on there.  Weird.  Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?


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## Scotth (Jun 5, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick.  From Politico:



I tend to agree with you and TLDR20.  I think the circumstance of Bergdahl will be properly investigated down the road, as each passing day goes by.  This whole thing has almost become serial.  When Charles Krauthammer makes the most cognitive argument in defense of Obama you have to ask WTF out of both the other Democrats and Republicans.


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## Scotth (Jun 5, 2014)

Teufel said:


> http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan
> 
> Have you guys seen this?  A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban.  Turns out there was a war going on there.  Weird.  Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?



I saw that article.  We have also had that same situation play out in NK, Iran and other place around the world.  We have never made a deal with the country that takes hostages (OK let me re phase that and say currently).  Eventually the 'host' country decides to show how 'great' they are a releases the captives.

Doom on them for being there.  They weren't ordered to be there by our country.  They don't even compute for me.


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## pardus (Jun 5, 2014)

Teufel said:


> http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan
> 
> Have you guys seen this?  A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban.  Turns out there was a war going on there.  Weird.  Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?



Wow...

“They really and truly believed that if people were loved and treated with respect that that would be given back to them in kind,” said Linda Boyle, Boyle’s mother. “So as odd it as it may seem to us that they were there, they truly believed with all their heart that if they treated people properly, they would be treated properly.”

Yeah, so how'd that work out for ya?


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## SpitfireV (Jun 5, 2014)

Bloody hippies.


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## AWP (Jun 5, 2014)

I wished I could work at Gitmo for a day so I could answer the phone with "American Ransom Hotel and Bank, this is an unsecure line, how may I help you Sir/ Ma'am...."


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## CDG (Jun 5, 2014)

amlove21 said:


> And that's your opinion to have, its just not one that I will sign on to. Until you're found guilty and formally discharged on sovereign US territory, I don't care what you did.
> 
> It's a dramatic example- but just imagine the slippery slope we are talking about in reality here. So, what- are we going to have a character review board before PR ops now? "Listen guys, we have a guy thats isolated- turns out he's a shitty dude. Yea, he's an American that's still _technically _in the service, but he shouldn't be. Let's pass on this one. PJ's/SF/TRAP/Whoever, stand down guys, we decided this guy has earned his captivity."


 
If there was controversy over what happened here, I would 100% agree with you.  But NO ONE who was in his unit has come out and said anything different.  Multiple accounts from guys he served with of behavior leading up to the desertion that was consistent with someone planning on leaving, he turns up missing overnight, and the accounts from the kids of him asking where he could find the Taliban.  Being a shitty soldier is nowhere near in the same category as what this guy did, and I certainly would never advocate leaving an American behind because they were a shitbag.  This goes FAR beyond that. 

At the end of the day, our judicial system is built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty.  I definitely see the validity in that argument.  My personal opinion is that the circumstances of this case are such that it was not worth the cost to get this guy back, simply because he hadn't been tried and found guilty in a court. I think there was enough evidence from overseas to constitute proof of intent and action, and that that should have led to him being stripped of his citizenship and no longer afforded the protections of the US judiciary system.


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## Kheenbish (Jun 5, 2014)

I think we need to just wait this out and see what Bowe has to say about his actions, that is if tells the truth. The video made it seem like to me, that he didn't really know what the heck was going on. Maybe he didn't even want to return? Would that change people’s opinions even more or would everyone still say let’s get that American back? He could have integrated nicely into the Taliban or other terrorist networks, but his worth could have been overdue at that point and who wouldn't take the deal of trading some random deserted for five good men. Everything is just *speculation* right now though.


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## Swill (Jun 5, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> I think that there would be a small number of people who would protest, but it would probably be the few true-believers who are currently saying that the uproar is just a ploy to make the President look bad, since they couldn't make the IRS or Benghazi stick.  From Politico:



I don't expect the Democratic Party to understand. Afterall, their greatest modern President was a draft dodger.


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## Teufel (Jun 5, 2014)

CDG said:


> If there was controversy over what happened here, I would 100% agree with you.  But NO ONE who was in his unit has come out and said anything different.  Multiple accounts from guys he served with of behavior leading up to the desertion that was consistent with someone planning on leaving, he turns up missing overnight, and the accounts from the kids of him asking where he could find the Taliban.  Being a shitty soldier is nowhere near in the same category as what this guy did, and I certainly would never advocate leaving an American behind because they were a shitbag.  This goes FAR beyond that.
> 
> At the end of the day, our judicial system is built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty.  I definitely see the validity in that argument.  My personal opinion is that the circumstances of this case are such that it was not worth the cost to get this guy back, simply because he hadn't been tried and found guilty in a court. I think there was enough evidence from overseas to constitute proof of intent and action, and that that should have led to him being stripped of his citizenship and no longer afforded the protections of the US judiciary system.



The only issue I have with the accounts from the guys in his unit is that everyone saw him do all sorts of bizarre things such as: pack up his stuff and send it home, told guys he was going to skip town and head to China etc.  Supposedly everyone saw these signs that he was going to desert and did nothing.  Supposedly one guy saw him desert his post and take off into the mountains without his weapon and armor.  I guess they just watched him walk off?  Now, don't misinterpret what I'm saying.  I believe what they are telling us, I'm just in disbelief that no one did anything about it.  Bergdahl's company sounds about as functional as Chris Brown and Rihanna's relationship.


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## Rabid Badger (Jun 5, 2014)

Kheenbish said:


> I think we need to just wait this out and see what Bowe has to say about his actions, that is if tells the truth.



I'm fairly certain BRB's Court Martial will not rest on whether he tells the truth or not. :-"



Kheenbish said:


> . Everything is just *speculation* right now though.



If you're a Democrat, yes.


> *1*.the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. *"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"*
> synonyms:
> conjecture, theorizing, hypothesizing, supposition, guesswork



*"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to LEAVE THE WIRE AND JOIN THE TALIBAN"*

C'mon man. Plenty of evidence out there. His whole platoon has already testified on MSM. Not trying to be a dick but his own hometown cancelled his welcome home ceremony.​@amlove21 you changed my mind. I'm glad he's home to face the full wrath of his actions.


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## racing_kitty (Jun 5, 2014)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a 15-6 investigation conducted already? Like, in 2010 or so? Assuming the soldiers' testimonials on-air match what was sworn to then, I'd say it's proven he deserted. Speculation, my fat ass. 

His motive for going walkabout might be open for speculation from gen pop, but I'm pretty sure the intel guys and their cohorts were able to intuit that, as well. They just are holding those cards to their collective chests until the deserter actually opens his mouth about why.


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## pardus (Jun 5, 2014)

Yeah, this is going to take a little time and honestly I have no problem with that. The Army can hardly put him in cuffs the second he gets on board the blackhawk. 
He must be thoroughly debriefed/interrogated to get both his version of events of why he left and what he did while he was a "captive". Also to garner every piece of intel we can from him.

Then the previous investigations, current investigations (if there are any) can be brought to bear and we can move forward with any charges.
We have him back so time is not vital, as long as it's not swept under the rug I'm prepared to be patient and thorough.


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## RackMaster (Jun 5, 2014)

Teufel said:


> http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/04/caitlan-coleman-joshua-boyle-beg-obama-to-rescue-them-and-their-baby-from-taliban-captors-in-afghanistan
> 
> Have you guys seen this?  A pregnant American woman and her Canadian husband decided to go for a walk about in Kabul and got kidnapped by the Taliban.  Turns out there was a war going on there.  Weird.  Do we have any more high level Taliban lying around Gitmo?


 
The guys also the ex husband of Omar Khadr's sister.  I sincerely hope neither of our countries put any one in harms way to get these two idiots and their kid out.



> *Zaynab Khadr*
> 
> Zaynab, 33, is the eldest child of Ahmed Said Khadr and Maha Elsamnah. It's alleged bin Laden attended her wedding in 1999. She returned to live in Canada in February 2005, and was the subject of RCMP investigations for allegedly aiding al-Qaida. She later married Joshua Boyle, whom she met during a hunger-strike on Parliament Hill in 2008 to protest her brother's detention in Guantanamo Bay.
> 
> ...



http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2009/04/02/a_breakin_slaying_and_khadr_marriage_mystery.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...band_and_new_wife_missing_in_afghanistan.html


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## Teufel (Jun 5, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a 15-6 investigation conducted already? Like, in 2010 or so? Assuming the soldiers' testimonials on-air match what was sworn to then, I'd say it's proven he deserted. Speculation, my fat ass.
> 
> His motive for going walkabout might be open for speculation from gen pop, but I'm pretty sure the intel guys and their cohorts were able to intuit that, as well. They just are holding those cards to their collective chests until the deserter actually opens his mouth about why.



As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted.  Like I said before, while I think he is a delusional and naive idiot, he is at best a deserter and at worst a traitor.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 5, 2014)

Teufel said:


> As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted.



Thought so.  Hence my earlier post about speculation, which was directed towards kheenbish more than anyone.  Not everything is speculation at this point, or at least not as much as people think.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 5, 2014)

Teufel said:


> As far as I know, the investigation determined that he purposely deserted.  Like I said before, while I think he is a delusional and naive idiot, he is at best a deserter and at worst a traitor.


I believe their was.
They can re-open it to take statements from him.
He should just Lawyer up and see if his Defense Counsel can come up with a good plea deal.


----------



## Scotth (Jun 5, 2014)

SOWT said:


> He should just Lawyer up and see if his Defense Counsel can come up with a good plea deal.



Everyone already knows what the first thing any lawyer will say in his defense.  Time Served!


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 5, 2014)

Hmmm, I've been thinking about that for a while. Unless he is currently being held or is held in pre-trial confinement, I don't think they could give him time served. They can choose to suspend punishment (say 10yrs prison suspended). I think it will really depend on the political influence whenever he is (if he is) formally charged. If the parents of the KIA soldiers who died looking for him keep up with speaking out/being on the news. Than I think the Army will be more influenced to actually punish him.

The Btn commander of the 1/501st should just charge him and push the paperwork up, then let the Army try and tiptoe around this political land mine.


----------



## compforce (Jun 5, 2014)

The source for the following is suspect (Eclipse).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...declared-jihad-in-2010-secret-documents-show/



> Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid.  Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. *Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion.*  Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and  bounds around the pitch like a mad man.  He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying 'Salaam' repeatedly.



*If true*, this will change my position significantly.  Last Code of Conduct classes I had, one of the main features was that you never stop attempting to resist and escape.  There is NO excuse for carrying a firearm without trying to take as many of the bastards with you as possible.  Being unable to resist a well-armed force while sick, unarmed or suffering a major injury is understandable.  Being fit enough to play soccer, having a loaded firearm and NOT resisting is completely unacceptable.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2014)

JAB said:


> Hmmm, I've been thinking about that for a while. Unless he is currently being held or is held in pre-trial confinement, I don't think they could give him time served. They can choose to suspend punishment (say 10yrs prison suspended). I think it will really depend on the political influence whenever he is (if he is) formally charged. If the parents of the KIA soldiers who died looking for him keep up with speaking out/being on the news. Than I think the Army will be more influenced to actually punish him.
> 
> The Btn commander of the 1/501st should just charge him and push the paperwork up, then let the Army try and tiptoe around this political land mine.


This. Completely agree.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jun 6, 2014)

RackMaster said:


> The guys also the ex husband of Omar Khadr's sister.  I sincerely hope neither of our countries put any one in harms way to get these two idiots and their kid out.


 
And that brings up an interesting question, how many people associated with the TB and Al-Qaeda are going to be "kidnapped" now in order to try and be traded for prisoners?


----------



## Kheenbish (Jun 6, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> Thought so.  Hence my earlier post about speculation, which was directed towards kheenbish more than anyone.  Not everything is speculation at this point, or at least not as much as people think.


 
Now in no way do I think this guy isn't guilty and should definitly get his due punishment for his actions, but if we want to throw out the we have to bring back this American card, then we also need to give this time to be proven in a court of law/military law. I agree this guy should burn, but if we want to rescue him like an American then we have to give him his rights as an American.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jun 6, 2014)

It sounds like this guy was wandering off even before deployment for little strolls and whatnot. This seems like a cascading failure to me.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 6, 2014)

amlove21 said:


> So I just got into a heated discussion about this topic. I am going to rant, and then be done.
> 
> My position is this- Bowe Bergdahl is back. He is in America. We want to prosecute him? Fine. But we do it in American UCMJ proceedings, and not on Al Jezeera, and we don't do it by beheading for his parents to see. I know I feel a little differently about this because of my career field. Did he desert- no one knows. But what if he did? Fine. I am still going to wake up every single day of my life and I won't let a deserter's parents worry about their child. I would still be proud to go and get SGT Bergdahl and return him to friendly control, knowing that he was a deserter before my team left to go get him. My personal feelings of the administration aside- I. Don't. Give. A. Shit. WE DO NOT LEAVE OUR MEN BEHIND.
> 
> ...


This is a tough one.  I've gone back and forth but keep landing in the same spot...  I agree with everything stated above (as well as subsequent posts) with the exception of one critical point:

My point of contention is with the action on the political/diplomatic side of the equation; ie  the release/exchange of prisoners for Bergdahl as opposed to the military aspect of PR.  These are two very distinct components.

The exchange portion of the decision was purely a political and carries great risk with potentially long standing consequences, which is why we've had a long standing policy against such actions (although it is interesting that other countries, such as Israel, don't necessarily adhere to similar policies but that's another topic).  At the same time, Paul Wolfowitz, former Deputy Secretary of Defense, once made the following agreeable statement, "_The brave men and women who serve today ... can do so with the full confidence that if they are captured, become missing or fall in battle, this nation will spare no effort to bring them home.  This our solemn pledge: however long it takes, whatever it takes, whatever the cost.” _

Are the 5 guys we released still the big threat some are making them out to be?  I don't know but at some level we still felt strongly enough about them to keep them in GTMO for many years, even over ~2oo previously released prisoners.  Such decisions are always political ones and separate from, but potentially resulting in, military PRO.  As amlove1 indicated above, when called upon, we can expect the military component of recovery to be carried out with the same high degree of professionalism, regardless of any peripheral noise that may be associated with it.

Am I glad Bergdahl was recovered and is being reintegrated?  Yes.  As part of this process, in time, I hope he will be asked to answer for his actions; right, wrong, or other.  However, as a matter of forward looking policy, I ultimately find the political actions that led to his release to be problematic.

This is not a matter of discounting Bergdahl's life or forsaking him in any way.  Nor is it chest beating or some nonsense.  Quite the contrary, it's a reasoned approach; one that looks around the corner and asks is there a line with this new precedent?  What is the greater impact of the decision?  It's problematic...right or wrong, that's where I keep landing.

Just my $.02


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 6, 2014)

Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 6, 2014)

JAB said:


> Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?


Soft targets (AmCits) in Europe now have a greater kidnapping risk.  Their is a general risk, then there is risk added by an incompetent national Security Team.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 6, 2014)

JAB said:


> Kidnapping has always been a MO for AQ, TB & HQN. Hell its the shitbags of the world MO. Will they possibly apply more focus now that they can get something more than propaganda for it? Probably, but that really changes very little in the grand scheme of things. Its always been a risk, always been a concern among troops and US personnel in conflict zones. The idea that more soldier will be snatched as a result of this holds little water in my opinion. Now as far as American citizens abroad, that may become a new target for these groups, but when have Americans abroad not been a target of kidnapping and ransom?


I hear what you're sayin and agree that it's been a long standing risk.  However, I still see increased risk with the decision, especially when considering the effectiveness of deterrence factors as we continue move to leaner expeditionary forces. 

The shift in policy potentially emboldens other groups in new AORs, effectively increasing the scope beyond the "usual suspects"...think South America, etc.   As SOWT, points out, there is increased to civilians abroad as well. The fact they are not DoD is not likely a distinction that will be made.

I look at the pattern the Israelis have gotten into with prisoner exchanges with the Palestinians/Hezbollah seemingly every few years.  Will we find ourselves in a similar position?  Perhaps not but it's not something I thought about very often prior to last weekend.


----------



## pardus (Jun 6, 2014)

Bottom line, is it better to exchange bad guys for our own, and let the bad guys run free, or let our own be held captive, raped, tortured and killed?


----------



## AWP (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm a pretty pessimistic person and even I don't see a run on AmCits abroad. Yes, the dumbasses (you can quote me) who roll around the Stans or Africa thinking they're immune because of the good in their hearts or good works will have a problem...but they always have. The bad guys don't pull up in a van and ask "Where the white chicks at" and get their kidnap on. Remember, they surveil a target for weeks or months before hitting them. They aren't pulling out a 20-sided die and rolling for initiative.

So it sucks there is an increased risk AT ALL, but that risk will be borne by those who were already placing themselves in a bad position.

Not unlike these guys:


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 7, 2014)

I think the largest problem is that there's no good tit for tat with regards to the exchange. 

What's it say about the taliban that 5 of their best guys is worth one of our deserters, though? lol


----------



## Kheenbish (Jun 7, 2014)

Another thing to mention is how it looks like they shaved all his hair off his body. It looks like they wanted to show he is inferior, or Americans are idk.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 7, 2014)

Kheenbish said:


> Another thing to mention is how it looks like they shaved all his hair off his body. It looks like they wanted to show he is inferior, or Americans are idk.


 
I think they just prefer the "boyish" look. :-":-/


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 10, 2014)

Kheenbish said:


> Another thing to mention is how it looks like they shaved all his hair off his body. It looks like they wanted to show he is inferior, or Americans are idk.



FYSA and FFT, IMHO, quite the opposite:



> http://www.jihadwatch.org/2004/01/suicide-bomber-was-preparing-for-attack-in-britain
> 
> “The man, an Algerian asylum-seeker, had left suicide notes to his mother and sister warning them that he planned to ‘martyr’ himself. When he was strip-searched, police discovered he had shaved off all his body hair – a religious obligation often observed by would-be suicide bombers so that they are ‘clean’ before entering heaven. Documents found in the suitcase of Mohammed Atta, the ringleader of the September 11 attacks, appeared to instruct all 19 of his hijackers to shave their body hair.



@Blizzard think of it this way - What happens to mafioso when they do the stretch without talking and get out of prison? Recidivism but at the "alive" martyr level.


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## hoepoe (Jun 10, 2014)

It's a slippery slope and a very fine balance between "we never eave ours behind" and "what price is too high". I for one, do not know the answer to "what price is too high" but i do invite you to take the time and read from our experiences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_prisoner_exchanges
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit_prisoner_exchange

This article is long, but an incredible (not necessarily positive) account of the Gilad Shalit abduction and what it means to be a "warrior" or not. Many lessons to be learned.
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Gilad-Schalits-capture-In-his-own-words-308015


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## LibraryLady (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks, @hoepoe - excellent reading.  I learned mucho, I do remember dimly these events happening but these circumstances really put them into perspective.

LL


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## 104TN (Jun 10, 2014)

I hope we tagged the bad guys and they have Tomahawks/JDAMs/Reapers heading their way as soon as they get where they're going.


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## RetPara (Jun 17, 2014)

Investigation into Bergdahl...  Is this a 15-6 or a Article 32?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...bergdahl-200-disappearance/?intcmp=latestnews


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## compforce (Jun 17, 2014)

RetPara said:


> Investigation into Bergdahl...  Is this a 15-6 or a Article 32?
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/16/army-begins-probe-bergdahl-200-disappearance/?intcmp=latestnews



My money would be on 15-6.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2014)

15-6 to determine if they can drop a General courtmartial on his ass.


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## DA SWO (Jun 17, 2014)

RetPara said:


> Investigation into Bergdahl...  Is this a 15-6 or a Article 32?
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...bergdahl-200-disappearance/?intcmp=latestnews


Wish I could find a complete Bio on the GO doing the 15-6.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2014)

http://www.lewis-mcchord.army.mil/ICorps/dahl.html

shortlist:



> West Pointer, arty, 2 years brigade command time, deployed OIF 05-06 doing Green Zone desk piloting. Made one-star in 09. OEF 10-12 as deputy CG for 10th Mountain. MA's in social psych and national security. Awards, CAB, and Ranger tab sound nice on paper but given his career it looks more like typical ticket-punching of most senior officers.


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## AWP (Jun 17, 2014)

Ya'll will forgive me if I'm not terribly optimistic about the 15-6. "Insufficient evidence" and "Conflicting reports"...I can see those used before this is over. Lift the rug and sweep the dirt....


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 17, 2014)

Ranger Psych said:


> http://www.lewis-mcchord.army.mil/ICorps/dahl.html
> 
> shortlist:


West Point and Harvard assignments, think we can trust him? Seems suspicious to me.


----------



## AWP (Jun 18, 2014)

No, Goddamnit, no, no, no....fuck we knew this would happen, but no, no, no...

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni57375495/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t4



> Army sergeant Bowe Bergdahl has been free for less than three weeks, but two major Hollywood filmmakers are already prepping movies about his controversial service in Afghanistan and the five years he was held captive by the Taliban. Todd Field (Little Children) will adapt the late Michael Hasting’s story about Bergdahl, “America’s Last Prisoner of War,” which ran in Rolling Stone magazine in 2012. A rep for Field confirmed that the Oscar-nominated filmmaker will produce and direct it for Fox Searchlight.
> Meanwhile, Kathryn Bigelow and writer Mark Boal are also developing a Bergdahl project. The two creative collaborators, who also made the Oscar-winning The Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty, would produce along with Megan Ellison, with Boal also writing the script.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 18, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> No, Goddamnit, no, no, no....fuck we knew this would happen, but no, no, no...
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/news/ni57375495/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t4


Friends of the Administration trying to make good from bad.


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## AWP (Jun 18, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Friends of the Administration trying to make good from bad.



At least Hollywood can tell us what happened, because those of us in country (to say nothing of his platoon mates) clearly don't know.


----------



## pardus (Jun 18, 2014)

I fucking knew this was going to happen! 



Freefalling said:


> At least Hollywood can tell us what happened, because those of us in country (to say nothing of his platoon mates) clearly don't know.



I'm so fucking sick of people taking what they see in movies as fact.


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## Brill (Jun 18, 2014)

If Snowden gt a deal, why not this guy?


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## AWP (Jun 18, 2014)

lindy said:


> If Snowden gt a deal, why not this guy?



The only deal Snowden should get is one negotiated by his lawyer and a US Attorney.


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## Brill (Jun 18, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> The only deal Snowden should get is one negotiated by his lawyer and a US Attorney.



I say put these two fuck ups in the Octagon and whoever is alive at the end has paid their debt to society in full. Probably would be just a slap fight though.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 18, 2014)

LOL worst fight idea in history. However Bowe's dad could quit being Muslim and start being a Geek, after his son walks across the octagon and surrenders to Snowden.


----------



## AWP (Jun 18, 2014)

lindy said:


> I say put these two fuck ups in the Octagon and whoever is alive at the end has paid their debt to society in full. Probably would be just a slap fight though.



If I wanted to see a bunch of little girls fight I'd make a GS troop sell their cookies at one Walmart and one Walmart only. A pack of rabid 9 year olds trying to sell thin mints beside a single Walmart entrance? Actually, that would be a better fight than Snowden v Bergdahl.


----------



## Dame (Jun 18, 2014)

You guys are all being gender insensitive. Gotta throw BradLeigha Womanning in there if we're talking girls. She'd be upset to be left out.


----------



## AWP (Jun 18, 2014)

I stand corrected. 3-way Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match, winner gets time served?


----------



## Dame (Jun 18, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> I stand corrected. 3-way Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match, winner gets time served?


Phtt. Winner gets dick.



Oh wait...


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## Teufel (Jun 18, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> No, Goddamnit, no, no, no....fuck we knew this would happen, but no, no, no...
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/news/ni57375495/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t4



A movie based on Bergdahl's story would basically be a gay bondage film


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## DasBoot (Jun 25, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> No, Goddamnit, no, no, no....fuck we knew this would happen, but no, no, no...
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/news/ni57375495/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t4


What are they going to call the film? "Taken" and "Lost in Translation" are already used....


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## pardus (Jun 25, 2014)

DasBoot said:


> What are they going to call the film? "Taken" and "Lost in Translation" are already used....



"I Missed Pork, But My Ass Didn't"


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## DA SWO (Jun 25, 2014)

DasBoot said:


> What are they going to call the film? "Taken" and "Lost in Translation" are already used....


Evening at Porky's, oh wait that was taken.


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## DasBoot (Jun 26, 2014)

pardus said:


> "I Missed Pork, But My Ass Didn't"


That's not bad. I still can't come up with a good one. I can imagine the pitch to the studios though- "think 'Deliverance' with fewer banjos and more pig squeals"


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## DA SWO (Jun 26, 2014)

Life in the TFL (Taliban Football League),
or how I started as a tight-end and finished as a wide receiver.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 30, 2014)

Threads devolve into wisecracks, it's science, and this one may have devolved too far for me--as an FNG--to make any pertinent contribution; but I'll give it a shot.  I remember when Bergdahl first went missing. It was a little blurb on the news about a soldier who just walked away from his post, and I remember thinking, why the f*ck would anybody do that, especially _there_. Then I shrugged it off and eventually forgot about it until the White House dog & pony show with Daddy Taliban. 

Bergdahl may be one of these John Walker Lindh types, but I doubt it...my guess is he's a mystic mountain blueberry, like jhis old man, who wanted to leave a nasty note, unass the whole show, walk 300 miles to India, maybe climb a tree and learn to play the flute.


----------



## Chopstick (Jul 14, 2014)

Has Duffel Blog hacked the Army Times? 

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20.../Sgt-Bergdahl-returning-active-duty-admin-job



> Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl has completed a course of counseling at an Army hospital in Texas and is getting back to regular duty as a soldier, according to Army officials.
> 
> The former Taliban captive has been assigned to U.S. Army North Headquarters, as a noncommissioned officer performing administrative duties commensurate with his rank, according to Don Manuszewski, a spokesman for the command told Army Times.
> 
> Bergdahl will go through standard administrative in-processing for “a short time” before he starts work, Manuszewski said.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 14, 2014)

Chopstick said:


> Has Duffel Blog hacked the Army Times?
> 
> http://www.armytimes.com/article/20.../Sgt-Bergdahl-returning-active-duty-admin-job



Nope!  He gets a promotion, honorable discharge, and a GS-15 position at the agency of his choosing.


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## Chopstick (Jul 14, 2014)

racing_kitty said:


> Nope!  He gets a promotion, honorable discharge, and a GS-15 position at the agency of his choosing.


I want to start a pool in anticipation of when he walks off his post.  Date Time and approximate location.  Place yer bets!


----------



## Havoc13 (Jul 14, 2014)

Chopstick said:


> I want to start a pool in anticipation of when he walks off his post.  Date Time and approximate location.  Place yer bets!



Too late, already happened.

http://hitthewoodline.com/military/2014/7/14/bergdahl-starts-new-job-at-west-point-defects-to-navy

US Army Sergeant and former Taliban collaborator Bowe Bergdahl was recently cleared to return to duty, and moved from his position as an instructor at the Army’s Defense Language Institute to a prestigious new assignment as an “Honor Mentor” at the US Military Academy at West Point.  In this new job, Bergdahl’s primary duties will be to educate, train, and inspire the newest generations of Army leaders, particularly those who struggle with issues of personal honor.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 14, 2014)

Havoc13 said:


> Too late, already happened.
> 
> http://hitthewoodline.com/military/2014/7/14/bergdahl-starts-new-job-at-west-point-defects-to-navy
> 
> US Army Sergeant and former Taliban collaborator Bowe Bergdahl was recently cleared to return to duty, and moved from his position as an instructor at the Army’s Defense Language Institute to a prestigious new assignment as an “Honor Mentor” at the US Military Academy at West Point.  In this new job, Bergdahl’s primary duties will be to educate, train, and inspire the newest generations of Army leaders, particularly those who struggle with issues of personal honor.



What is most fucked up about 'this' post, is that I had to stare at it for a few moments to ensure I knew the source...nothing this administration does surprises me anymore.


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## Kraut783 (Jul 14, 2014)

WTF??????    

I quit.....


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## Viper1 (Jul 15, 2014)

They have to place him in a job somewhere in order to complete the investigation and continue the reintegration process.  So far, no misconduct during captivity. http://online.wsj.com/articles/no-e...y-bergdahl-while-captive-army-says-1403719847

 It's not like he's keen on going home anytime soon.  His parents are PNG to him right now: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/07/14/bowe-bergdahl-has-refused-to-speak-to-parents/

A lot has happened but gaining the full truth on this event may take a year or more.  He still draws a paycheck and holds a rank with the service.  We are paying him so might as well have him do something.  Gainful employment is just one portion of reintegration.


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## AWP (Jul 15, 2014)

I don't understand how someone who willfully walked away from his post isn't already charged with desertion. I saw that the Army was trying to establish "intent." How does that change the fact that he walked away from his post?


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 15, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> I don't understand how someone who willfully walked away from his post isn't already charged with desertion. I saw that the Army was trying to establish "intent." How does that change the fact that he walked away from his post?


AWOL vs Desertion.

He can claim he was just going out for an illegal beer and got rolled by the Taliban.

Sgt B becomes Spc B and goes back to Idaho.

The unwillingness to talk to family is very interesting though, wonder how much influence dad had, and he is pissed at them (blame them for his captivity?)


----------



## Gunz (Jul 15, 2014)

The national media buried this story when it became apparent to them that it was a source of embarrassment to their Chosen One. It will be interesting to see what kind of influence politics has on the course of military justice in this case. I have become used to seeing injustices perpetrated against Soldiers and Marines in the past decade by their own commands pressured by various political entities...and as such I have little hope it will finally be served against someone who is apparently so deserving of it.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 15, 2014)

SOWT said:


> AWOL vs Desertion.
> 
> He can claim he was just going out for an illegal beer and got rolled by the Taliban.
> 
> ...



While I think that he might - MIGHT - be able to testify believably that he didn't leave to deliberately join the Taliban (i.e. he took off for India or some such nonsense), I think his communications back to the home front give an indicator that he had the intention of not going back to his unit.  I think desertion will stick.

I don't know if he blames his family for his captivity, so much as he resents them for getting on board with his captors.  But that's just my SWAG (scientific wild ass guess).


----------



## compforce (Jul 15, 2014)

And if the court martial doesn't find desertion or AWOL, he walks away with about $350k.  $200k in back pay and another $150k if he's found to have been a POW.  A little less if he gets busted down.



> Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl could have a tax-free $350,000 dropped into his bank account if the current investigation into his disappearance from his base in Afghanistan was not desertion, and if he is deemed to have been a prisoner of war for the five years he was held by Islamic militants, Fox News has learned.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/14/bergdahl-could-get-350g-tax-free-if-cleared-by-army/


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## Scotth (Jul 15, 2014)

The army probably wants to prove intent because I read in the pass he had other incidents were he left base unauthorized.  If they don't prove intent he can just claim innocence based on past behavior to support his position.  If his pass behavior is true and he didn't get disciplined for it, it would make his case even stronger.

If I blame anything, it's the short sighted lowering of enlistment during the war that leads to these screwballs getting their foot in the door in the first place.  It also gets you gang bangers and white supremacist in the ranks as well.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 15, 2014)

Scotth said:


> The army probably wants to prove intent because I read in the pass he had other incidents were he left base unauthorized.  If they don't prove intent he can just claim innocence based on past behavior to support his position.  If his pass behavior is true and he didn't get disciplined for it, it would make his case even stronger.
> 
> *If I blame anything, it's the short sighted lowering of enlistment during the war that leads to these screwballs getting their foot in the door in the first place.  It also gets you gang bangers and white supremacist in the ranks as well*.



Agree, but units not willing to enforce standards prior to deployment added to the problems.

Clinton and Rumsfeld should both be kicked in the nuts for creating this force structure disaster.


----------



## AWP (Jul 15, 2014)

Scotth said:


> The army probably wants to prove intent because I read in the pass he had other incidents were he left base unauthorized.


 
If that's the case, his leadership could stand some UCMJ love. This isn't something you turn a blind eye to or tack on some time in the motor pool.


----------



## Scotth (Jul 15, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Agree, but units not willing to enforce standards prior to deployment added to the problems.
> 
> Clinton and Rumsfeld should both be kicked in the nuts for creating this force structure disaster.



Whole heartily agree once the foot is in the door the unit is accountable to make it work.


----------



## x SF med (Jul 15, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> I don't understand how someone who willfully walked away from his post isn't already charged with desertion. I saw that the Army was trying to establish "intent." How does that change the fact that he walked away from his post?



It's because he professes to follow the religion of peace that he is not being followed too closely.


----------



## 104TN (Jul 16, 2014)

I hate it for the guys in his unit that have to just grin and bear it. Talk about a drain on morale.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 16, 2014)

Hard for me to imagine his NCOs not picking up on his eccentricities prior to deployment. Is there any option for a plt sgt/plt commander/CO to red flag somebody they deem unsuitable for deployment to a combat zone? 

And I agree that Rumsfeld should have been kicked in the nuts...for a lot of reasons.


----------



## xGenoSiide (Jul 16, 2014)

Based on the information given us at a briefing, I don't see desertion sticking.  My .02 and can't offer much past that in terms of information.  I am, however, curious to see where the investigation leads.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 16, 2014)

xGenoSiide said:


> Based on the information given us at a briefing, I don't see desertion sticking.  My .02 and can't offer much past that in terms of information.  I am, however, curious to see where the investigation leads.


We'll see.  Has the 15-6 been completed and signed off yet?  If not, your briefer may have bad data.

In other news, Bowe has hired a High Profile Defense Attorney:

http://www.militarytimes.com/articl...orney-also-fought-Army-captain-espionage-case

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl has retained a high-profile attorney — the same lawyer who defended Capt. James Yee, a Muslim Army chaplain cleared in an espionage probe a decade ago.

Bergdahl’s lawyer is Eugene Fidell, a Yale Law School scholar, prominent military legal expert and a co-founder and former president of the National Institute of Military Justice.


----------



## Chopstick (Jul 16, 2014)

That is interesting news @SOWT .  When I got in from work there was some crap on the news about him.  Everything I hear about this jackass makes my BP go up.  I cant even look.  SMH.


----------



## Scotth (Jul 17, 2014)

For me at this point, get rid of the guy and get rid of his big back pay out.  Nobody wins and the Army gets rid of a guy that it should've never been let in in the first place.

Is that a satisfying solution?  Not even remotely close to it!

Why didn't Bergdahl's failure to pass the Coast Guard indoctrination program never raise a red flag is a big failure on the Army's part.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 17, 2014)

Scotth said:


> For me at this point, get rid of the guy and get rid of his big back pay out.  Nobody wins and the Army gets rid of a guy that it should've never been let in in the first place.
> 
> Is that a satisfying solution?  Not even remotely close to it!
> 
> Why didn't Bergdahl's failure to pass the Coast Guard indoctrination program never raise a red flag is a big failure on the Army's part.


He got in because Big Army was trying to fight two wars at once and was desperate to get warm bodies in the door.


----------



## Red Ryder (Jul 22, 2014)

Article by a Robert Young Pelton on the first days of the disappearance. Had some good background I was not aware of.

http://m.vice.com/read/finding-bergdahl-081


----------



## Viper1 (Jul 23, 2014)

Red Ryder said:


> Article by a Robert Young Pelton on the first days of the disappearance. Had some good background I was not aware of.
> 
> http://m.vice.com/read/finding-bergdahl-081



I read this as well.  Looking forward to Part II.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 26, 2014)

SOWT said:


> He got in because Big Army was trying to fight two wars at once and was desperate to get warm bodies in the door.


Was going to post this as I just saw it.  Reminds me of a post that was in thread earlier.


----------



## Brill (Jul 26, 2014)

Red Ryder said:


> Article by a Robert Young Pelton on the first days of the disappearance. Had some good background I was not aware of.
> 
> http://m.vice.com/read/finding-bergdahl-081



Yep, totally legit.  "Launch the ELINT aircraft!" is often uttered right before the call to jock up.


----------



## Red Ryder (Jul 28, 2014)

Part 2 is up.

http://m.vice.com/read/finding-bergdahl-part-2-411


----------



## pardus (Aug 20, 2014)

Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl plans to get out of the Army and pursue a college education once the investigation into his disappearance is completed, his lawyer told CBS News.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 20, 2014)

pardus said:


> Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl plans to get out of the Army and pursue a college education once the investigation into his disappearance is completed, his lawyer told CBS News.


My guess is they work a plea deal.
He agrees to an AWOL Charge with minimum punishment, and leaves the Army a stripe or two short.
Then fades into obscurity (for his own sake).


----------



## pardus (Aug 20, 2014)

SOWT said:


> My guess is they work a plea deal.
> He agrees to an AWOL Charge with minimum punishment, and leaves the Army a stripe or two short.
> Then fades into obscurity (for his own sake).



More likely that he will fade into book and movies deals along with the adulation of the liberal and brainless Military supporter crowd.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 20, 2014)

He'll be a big star on campus, especially with the commie professors. I bet he'll get a big chunk of backpay too.


----------



## LibraryLady (Aug 20, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> ...  he'll get a big chunk of backpay too.



Which is why the plea bargain will include the loss of rank, since his rank will mean nothing to him.

LL


----------



## compforce (Aug 20, 2014)

> He agrees to an AWOL Charge with minimum punishment, and leaves the Army a stripe or two short.



Which puts him right back where he should have been in the first place unless they also take away his E-5 due to the AWOL.  In which case he leaves as an E-1 or E-2 which is preferable to me (in the case of a plea deal).  I really think he should get a BCD, no back pay and reduction to E-1.  No POW honors as well.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 20, 2014)

LibraryLady said:


> Which is why the plea bargain will include the loss of rank, since his rank will mean nothing to him.
> 
> LL


But it helps quell the chorus, and can cost him a chunk of change.
He was a PFC(?) when he went AWOL?
Bump it down to PV2, and restart the process.
PFC 6 months after detention, SPC two years (?) later. Sgt two years after that.  One year later recovery.
vs
SPC one year after capture.Sgt two years later, one year later recovery.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 20, 2014)

compforce said:


> Which puts him right back where he should have been in the first place unless they also take away his E-5 due to the AWOL.  In which case he leaves as an E-1 or E-2 which is preferable to me (in the case of a plea deal).  I really think he should get a BCD, no back pay and reduction to E-1.  No POW honors as well.


I agree, but the system will treat AWOL differently then desertion.


----------



## compforce (Aug 20, 2014)

SOWT said:


> I agree, but the system will treat AWOL differently then desertion.


The political climate will not allow a true desertion punsihment.  Plea to AWOL, can't be promoted while AWOL which nullifies E-5 and puts him back at E-3.  Can't get pay while AWOL so no back pay.  Court martial with reduction in rank to E-1 and BCD rounds it out.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 20, 2014)

compforce said:


> The political climate will not allow a true desertion punsihment.  Plea to AWOL, can't be promoted while AWOL which nullifies E-5 and puts him back at E-3.  Can't get pay while AWOL so no back pay.  Court martial with reduction in rank to E-1 and BCD rounds it out.


Your right, I forgot about that.

I can live with that. PFC Deserter leaves and heads to college.


----------



## compforce (Aug 20, 2014)

> leaves and heads to college.



Which, in my scenario, he has to pay for himself since the BCD eliminates the GI Bill


----------



## AWP (Aug 20, 2014)

compforce said:


> Which, in my scenario, he has to pay for himself since the BCD eliminates the GI Bill


 
All of which is good if the Army sticks to the book or doesn't bow to political/ PR pressure.

I think we should give Bergdahl a camera and send him to Iraq as a photojournalist.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 20, 2014)

LibraryLady said:


> ...since his rank will mean nothing to him.
> 
> LL


 
Just like his "service" to his country.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2014)

While I doubt this will come to anything, I thought it was an interesting turn that will add some fuel to the fire. The justification about funding though...that just sounds ridiculous.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/justice/bergdahl-prisoner-exchange/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



> (CNN) -- The Pentagon broke federal law by exchanging five Taliban detainees for Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl without giving Congress the appropriate notice, Congress' independent investigative arm announced Thursday.
> Susan Poling, general counsel for the U.S. Government Accountability Office, wrote in a letter to nine Republican senators that the Pentagon should have notified "the relevant congressional committees at least 30 days in advance of the transfer."
> Moreover, Poling noted that the GAO also concluded the Defense Department broke the law by using "appropriated funds to carry out the transfer when no money was available for that purpose."


----------



## Brill (Aug 22, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> While I doubt this will come to anything, I thought it was an interesting turn that will add some fuel to the fire. The justification about funding though...that just sounds ridiculous.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/justice/bergdahl-prisoner-exchange/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



And that's pretty fucking sad: DOD officials violate Federal law and nothing will happen.  I guess they're following the AG's lead?

"DOD and DOJ sittin' a tree..."


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> While I doubt this will come to anything, I thought it was an interesting turn that will add some fuel to the fire. The justification about funding though...that just sounds ridiculous.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/justice/bergdahl-prisoner-exchange/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



The PENTAGON broke the law?  Wasn't this on the President's orders?


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2014)

IIRC the Pentagon opposed the exchange.


----------



## x SF med (Aug 22, 2014)

Screw the AWOL, he left his post during the course of battle/while in a combat zone- that is desertion plain and simple.  He should hang.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2014)

Marauder06 said:


> The PENTAGON broke the law?  Wasn't this on the President's orders?


 
If you were really into conspiracies you could argue the CINC told SecDef to do it (verbally or via email...with this admin. we know email disappears like a blond in Aruba), will deny it played a role, and then use the GAO report to emasculate the DOD. Of course, being in the military and using the "just following orders defense" wasn't valid until recently thanks to a guy in FL with a load of demo at his house...


----------



## BloodStripe (Aug 22, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> If you were really into conspiracies you could argue the CINC told SecDef to do it (verbally or via email...with this admin. we know email disappears like a blond in Aruba), will deny it played a role, and then use the GAO report to emasculate the DOD. Of course, being in the military and using the "just following orders defense" wasn't valid until recently thanks to a guy in FL with a load of demo at his house...



That hard-drive had to be recycled, just like Lois Lerner's.


----------



## Brill (Aug 22, 2014)

Pentagon used almost $1 mil of appropriated funds for GITMO prisoner swap, a no-no without Congressional notification.

Notification was for spending of the AF, not transfer of people.

What's the difference between this and what Gen Ham did at AFRICOM?


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2014)

x SF med said:


> Screw the AWOL, he left his post during the course of battle/while in a combat zone- that is desertion plain and simple.  He should hang.


 
William Howe hung two deserters from a tree prior to the battle of Bunker Hill. And he was considered "lenient." We've become pussified in our treatment of deserters and traitors.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2014)

lindy said:


> Pentagon used almost $1 mil of appropriated funds for GITMO prisoner swap, a no-no without Congressional notification.


 
There was a senior Air Force officer in Afghanistan who did something similar: he took appropriated funds and used them for a totally different purpose. He didn't try to hide it during the investigation and said it was for the welfare of his people because the Army wasn't doing its part. He's now a 2-star.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 22, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> There was a senior Air Force officer in Afghanistan who did something similar: he took appropriated funds and used them for a totally different purpose. He didn't try to hide it during the investigation and said it was for the welfare of his people because the Army wasn't doing its part. He's now a 2-star.


The new 7th Army JMTC CG took funds from another unit to go to Afghanistan with his BCs before their deployment a couple years ago...all of them were relieved, he is now...well a one star.


----------



## Brill (Aug 23, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> There was a senior Air Force officer in Afghanistan who did something similar: he took appropriated funds and used them for a totally different purpose. He didn't try to hide it during the investigation and said it was for the welfare of his people because the Army wasn't doing its part. He's now a 2-star.



He bought them all PT belts?:die:


----------



## Brill (Oct 6, 2014)

Anyone heard anything new with this guy? Did he get his "captivity check"? Court Martial?


----------



## Salt USMC (Oct 6, 2014)

lindy said:


> Anyone heard anything new with this guy? Did he get his "captivity check"? Court Martial?


It seems like there hasn't been any new news on him in about three weeks or so.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 11, 2014)

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/220403-army-wont-release-bergdahl-review


----------



## pardus (Oct 11, 2014)

ThunderHorse said:


> http://thehill.com/policy/defense/220403-army-wont-release-bergdahl-review



It hardly matters if they tell us or not, we will know once he is charged or released etc...
I just hope they hurry up about it.


----------



## Brill (Oct 11, 2014)

ThunderHorse said:


> http://thehill.com/policy/defense/220403-army-wont-release-bergdahl-review



Politics.  I'm sure they're citing national security reasons for much of the details however I'm sure redacted findings would be subject to FOIA.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 17, 2015)

Kinda forgot about Bergdahl. 

Apparently so did the administration. FOX drives me crazy for being over the top sometimes, but I'm glad they wrote this:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015...ng-bergdahl-report-hostage/?intcmp=latestnews


----------



## pardus (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm very curious about the results and also why it's being kept hush hush so far.


----------



## Brill (Jan 18, 2015)

I doubt it will get released prior to the State of the Union.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 18, 2015)

One of the points mentioned in the article, and I agree, is that if he is guilty of something, the administration is going to be on the defensive...again.  Especially after the 5 yah-hoos we let go in trade for him, start causing havoc.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 18, 2015)

Bergdahl sent all his shit home, then walked away form his post....  we lost good people looking for a traitor, he should be deported to the same group he spent all that time with in the sandbox, the skinnies, not the Army.  How simple can it be?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 26, 2015)

I'm seeing on Twitter that FOX News is reporting that Bergdahl will be charged with desertion - communicated via O'Reilly  - trying to find a link to better vet the info...

White House is trying to block the report.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 26, 2015)

First link I can find:

http://weaselzippers.us/212260-breaking-report-that-bergdahl-to-be-charged-with-desertion/

Found a more reliable link:

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/01/26/report-bergdahl-to-be-charged-with-desertion/


----------



## x SF med (Jan 26, 2015)

The White House,  in trading terrorists for Bergdahl, is complicit in his desertion after the fact.  Therefore, all in the White House staff, who had knowledge of, and made the deal to free those individuals for a traitor who was not enamored of those to whom he fled anymore, up to and including the highest levels should be charged with aiding a deserter, treason and dereliction of duty.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 26, 2015)

The White House is referring to it as: "work place exit" :-"


----------



## medicchick (Jan 26, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> First link I can find:
> 
> http://weaselzippers.us/212260-breaking-report-that-bergdahl-to-be-charged-with-desertion/
> 
> ...



Here's another main/big new page.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/26/bowe-bergdahl-be-charged-desertion-retired-officer/


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 26, 2015)

Slow Clap gents: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...e-charged-for-desertion-here-are-the-details/


----------



## pardus (Jan 26, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm seeing on Twitter that FOX News is reporting that *Bergdahl will be charged with desertion* - communicated via O'Reilly  - trying to find a link to better vet the info...
> 
> White House is trying to block the report.



That is bloody marvelous news!


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 27, 2015)

http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/breaking-bergdahl-charged-desertion/


----------



## x SF med (Jan 27, 2015)

Desertion in a time of war.... Bergdahl woulda done better with the Taliban, if we actually go to the full length of the UCMJ.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2015)

medicchick said:


> Here's another main/big new page.
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/26/bowe-bergdahl-be-charged-desertion-retired-officer/



It still cites the same primary source though


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

Frustrating.  After 'breaking' about 12 hours ago, I can still not find any stories that have their own sources - everything is linked to the O'Reilly interview -

"Big News" triple checking their facts, or "Big O" using all his influence to squash any reporting of this story?


----------



## AWP (Jan 27, 2015)

I hope this is real, but I'll wait for something more official than an O'Reilly interview with a retired officer.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

Frustrating.  After 'breaking' about 12 hours ago, I can still not find any stories that have their own sources - everything is still linked to the O'Reilly interview -

"Big News" triple checking their facts, or "Big O" using all his influence to squash any reporting of this story?


----------



## AWP (Jan 27, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Frustrating.  After 'breaking' about 12 hours ago, I can still not find any stories that have their own sources - everything is still linked to the O'Reilly interview -
> 
> "Big News" triple checking their facts, or "Big O" using all his influence to squash any reporting of this story?


 
Would you print a story with such questionable beginnings? This amounts to "I have a friend who told me that..." I'd be surprised if Fox wasn't trying to run down something more concrete; believe it or not I think CNN or MSNBC would do the same if only to discredit Fox. It will be a big story with quite a few people in the loop, vermin who leak info to the news vermin all of the time. We'd also expect the deserter's lawyers to remain silent?

Maybe the guy is right, but I'm skeptical.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

NBC going with it. Naming their own sources and not referencing FOX or O'Reilly. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bowe-bergdahl-be-charged-desertion-officials-say-n294466


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

NBC going with it. Naming their own sources and not referencing FOX or O'Reilly. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bowe-bergdahl-be-charged-desertion-officials-say-n294466


----------



## pardus (Jan 27, 2015)

Unnamed "officials", sounds dodgy.  

I hope it's true.


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 27, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Would you print a story with such questionable beginnings? This amounts to "I have a friend who told me that..." I'd be surprised if Fox wasn't trying to run down something more concrete; believe it or not I think CNN or MSNBC would do the same if only to discredit Fox. It will be a big story with quite a few people in the loop, vermin who leak info to the news vermin all of the time. We'd also expect the deserter's lawyers to remain silent?
> 
> Maybe the guy is right, but I'm skeptical.


With one exception, the Lawyers have to remain silent.

The charge sheet goes to the MILITARY defense attorney, who will then share it with the civilian lawyer hired by the family.  IIRC, the charges then become public.
This will be interesting to see, watch.
HH6 and I strongly disagree with possible COA's, this would validate me (memo to self, kick dog off couch tonight).
But again, we will see.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

Going with the assumption that the latest reports are true:

1 - Does Obama have the authority to pardon him?
2 - Would he?  It would be the final F.U. to all his detractors, but really?


----------



## AWP (Jan 27, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Going with the assumption that the latest reports are true:
> 
> 1 - Does Obama have the authority to pardon him?
> 2 - Would he?  It would be the final F.U. to all his detractors, but really?


 
I think he does. Doesn't every president have this ability and typically uses it in the last few days of office?


----------



## Gunz (Jan 27, 2015)

Sure does. Here's my take. It'll end up being a compromise. The Army gets to charge him with desertion, to which he pleads guilty. But time in captivity will be considered time served so he doesn't go to Leavenworth. Instead, he gets busted down to E2 and gets released with a General Discharge. Obama, prior to leaving office, pardons him. He then writes a book which becomes a movie and he becomes a hero of the leftists.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jan 27, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Would you print a story with such questionable beginnings? This amounts to "I have a friend who told me that..." I'd be surprised if Fox wasn't trying to run down something more concrete; *believe it or not I think CNN or MSNBC would do the same if only to discredit Fox*. It will be a big story with quite a few people in the loop, vermin who leak info to the news vermin all of the time. We'd also expect the deserter's lawyers to remain silent?
> 
> Maybe the guy is right, but I'm skeptical.



MSNBC could run live feed of POTUS saying that Berghdal would not only not be charged, but promoted to General of the Armies, and I'd still submit myself for drug testing while swearing they hired actors.  Their level of credibility, as far as I'm concerned, is hovering somewhere miles below child molesting lawyers that moonlight as used car salesmen.  CNN, however, I'd actually believe what they're reporting.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> He then writes a book which becomes a movie and he becomes a hero of the leftists.



Fine. They can have Bergdahl. I'll take Kyle.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 27, 2015)

http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili.../bergdahl-army-update-false-reports/22396367/

It's like the Gods of War don't care...


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 27, 2015)

Or someone leaked the data to force the Army's hand.


----------



## pardus (Jan 27, 2015)

ThunderHorse said:


> http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili.../bergdahl-army-update-false-reports/22396367/
> 
> It's like the Gods of War don't care...



Are you surprised? General Officers are politicians, who are invested more in themselves than the system/code/etc... that they swore to uphold. 
They are thinking about their post Military careers, not doing the right thing, despite preaching it.

Just my jaded opinion, that has always proven true...


----------



## Gunz (Jan 28, 2015)

_"No decision has been made with respect to the case of Sgt. Bergdahl," Kirby said. "None. There is no timeline to make that decision, and Gen. [Mark] Milley is being put under no pressure to make a decision."_

General Milley may not be under pressure to make a decision because that decision may be his in name only. This isn't just about some loopy soldier who wanted to walk to India. There are consequences here that could effect the outcome of the next presidential election. You better believe there's intense concern on the part of some very powerful people.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 28, 2015)

Okay, I've been thinking about something for a while - This seems like it should be pretty clear and cut, he left his unit, ended up with Taliban.  Hell this LINK from 2010 has them claiming that Bergdaul was working for them.  In the photo they released (within the link), he sure does not appear to be suffering.  What's to question?    Unless he was just going along to keep his ass alive after being captured.

Are there are significantly more compliated facts to this story that we (the general public) are not aware?  It initially bothered me that men from his unit were so proactive in coming out to the press claiming what a terrible soldier he was.  Why would they do this?  The longer this goes on, the more my "bullshit detector" is moving into overdrive.  There is a part of me that wonders what was happening in that unit...was life so terrible for Bergdahl that he decided to get the F out before something happened to him?  To take his chances in making it to another unit?  I'm starting to think something is hinky here.

Okay, that's it...don't call me a "commie traitor lover", all the politics aside, something is just not adding up for me.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm guessing it wasn't all that complicated. I think Bergdahl is part fruitbat, like his dad. Seems to me he just wanted to unass the whole show, walk to India and find a guru.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jan 28, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> _"No decision has been made with respect to the case of Sgt. Bergdahl," Kirby said. "None. There is no timeline to make that decision, and Gen. [Mark] Milley is being put under no pressure to make a decision."_
> 
> General Milley may not be under pressure to make a decision because that decision may be his in name only. This isn't just about some loopy soldier who wanted to walk to India. There are consequences here that could effect the outcome of the next presidential election. You better believe there's intense concern on the part of some very powerful people.



I don't think it will have much effect on the next presidential election.


----------



## pardus (Jan 28, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay, I've been thinking about something for a while - This seems like it should be pretty clear and cut, he left his unit, ended up with Taliban.  Hell this LINK from 2010 has them claiming that Bergdaul was working for them.  In the photo they released (within the link), he sure does not appear to be suffering.  What's to question?    Unless he was just going along to keep his ass alive after being captured.
> 
> Are there are significantly more compliated facts to this story that we (the general public) are not aware?  It initially bothered me that men from his unit were so proactive in coming out to the press claiming what a terrible soldier he was.  Why would they do this?  The longer this goes on, the more my "bullshit detector" is moving into overdrive.  There is a part of me that wonders what was happening in that unit...was life so terrible for Bergdahl that he decided to get the F out before something happened to him?  To take his chances in making it to another unit?  I'm starting to think something is hinky here.
> 
> Okay, that's it...don't call me a "commie traitor lover", all the politics aside, something is just not adding up for me.



The guy was a fucking shitbag of a Soldier, a deluded dreamer and also a traitor that hated his country, wanted out of his obligation, and wanted to hang out with his friends the Taliban.
His unit (members of) said from day one that he deserted. The Army had to spend a lot of time, money and more importantly Soldier's lives to try and get this shitbag back.
I'm sure the Army is embarrassed by this all, add to that the fact that the POTUS broke the law and DoD policy to get this prick back. Not to mention that the Army is incompetent at the best of times, I'm not surprised they are a bit flustered by it all.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 28, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I don't think it will have much effect on the next presidential election.


 
Well, maybe that's a bit of a stretch. But...if he's convicted of desertion doesn't the exchange of Taliban prisoners for his release gives Republicans another weapon? Like Benghazi?


----------



## AWP (Jan 28, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> Well, maybe that's a bit of a stretch. But...if he's convicted of desertion doesn't the exchange of Taliban prisoners for his release gives Republicans another weapon? Like Benghazi?


 
A weapon? Sure. One Americans will care about? Nope.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 28, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> Like Benghazi?



And what's happened with that?  No one in the administration with very few exceptions (Petreaus) have been held accountable.  Holder and Clinton will never have to answer for the decisions they've made.


----------



## AWP (Jan 28, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay, I've been thinking about something for a while - This seems like it should be pretty clear and cut, he left his unit, ended up with Taliban.  Hell this LINK from 2010 has them claiming that Bergdaul was working for them.  In the photo they released (within the link), he sure does not appear to be suffering.  What's to question?    Unless he was just going along to keep his ass alive after being captured.
> 
> Are there are significantly more compliated facts to this story that we (the general public) are not aware?  It initially bothered me that men from his unit were so proactive in coming out to the press claiming what a terrible soldier he was.  Why would they do this?  The longer this goes on, the more my "bullshit detector" is moving into overdrive.  There is a part of me that wonders what was happening in that unit...was life so terrible for Bergdahl that he decided to get the F out before something happened to him?  To take his chances in making it to another unit?  I'm starting to think something is hinky here.
> 
> Okay, that's it...don't call me a "commie traitor lover", all the politics aside, something is just not adding up for me.


 
We had an extensive thread on this guy (maybe this one?), just search for his last name. Short version: His unit knew THAT MORNING he was a deserter. Papers around his home base in Alaska reported him as a deserter. There was never any question in anyone's mind over here as to what he did. He was a shitbird soldier who left all sorts of breadcrumbs, inflammatory comments, and email behind.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 28, 2015)

This morning I had breakfast with a friend of mine who is a captain in the Army and a JAG officer. (I think the Army calls them something else?). 

We went back-and-forth about this topic, and he was adamant in trying to convince me that there was likely more to the story than what we knew, that maybe things were going on within that unit, that caused him "Bergdahl" to run.  The captain was not claiming to have inside information, and told me he did not have a working knowledge of the case, it was just his intuition.  That got me thinking about my original thoughts on this topic when Bergdahl l first went missing, and what made to decide to make the post I did. It just seemed that everyone was too quick to hang a desserter tag around his neck. 

I'm going to let this theory go, as I reread my posts there could be the perception I am supporting or defending him, and that is certainly not the case.


----------



## Brill (Jan 28, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> We had an extensive thread on this guy (maybe this one?), just search for his last name. Short version: His unit knew THAT MORNING he was a deserter. Papers around his home base in Alaska reported him as a deserter. There was never any question in anyone's mind over here as to what he did. He was a shitbird soldier who left all sorts of breadcrumbs, inflammatory comments, and email behind.



Reminds me of a story about a birth certificate from Hawaii...:whatever:


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 28, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This morning I had breakfast with a friend of mine who is a captain in the Army and a JAG officer. (I think the Army calls them something else?).
> 
> We went back-and-forth about this topic, and he was adamant in trying to convince me that there was likely more to the story than what we knew, that maybe things were going on within that unit, that caused him "Bergdahl" to run.  The captain was not claiming to have inside information, and told me he did not have a working knowledge of the case, it was just his intuition.  That got me thinking about my original thoughts on this topic when Bergdahl l first went missing, and what made to decide to make the post I did. It just seemed that everyone was too quick to hang a desserter tag around his neck.
> 
> I'm going to let this theory go, as I reread my posts there could be the perception I am supporting or defending him, and that is certainly not the case.


Is your friend a defense counsel, or a prosecutor.
He sounds like a defense counsel.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 28, 2015)

There's no valid reason to desert, let alone desert to the enemy. Period.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 28, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This morning I had breakfast with a friend of mine who is a captain in the Army and a JAG officer. (I think the Army calls them something else?).
> 
> We went back-and-forth about this topic, and he was adamant in trying to convince me that there was likely more to the story than what we knew, that maybe things were going on within that unit, that caused him "Bergdahl" to run.  The captain was not claiming to have inside information, and told me he did not have a working knowledge of the case, it was just his intuition.  That got me thinking about my original thoughts on this topic when Bergdahl l first went missing, and what made to decide to make the post I did. It just seemed that everyone was too quick to hang a desserter tag around his neck.
> 
> I'm going to let this theory go, as I reread my posts there could be the perception I am supporting or defending him, and that is certainly not the case.



Ooh-Rah
It is documented he sent all of his stuff to his parent's address a week prior to walking away.
The night he left, he tried to sign out NoDs  'for personal use'.
He had walked away before.
He had converted to Islam.
He posted on the internet that he hated the Army.

Why there is any question that he deserted is beyond me.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 29, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This morning I had breakfast with a friend of mine who is a captain in the Army and a JAG officer. (I think the Army calls them something else?).
> 
> We went back-and-forth about this topic, and he was adamant in trying to convince me that there was likely more to the story than what we knew, that maybe things were going on within that unit, that caused him "Bergdahl" to run.  The captain was not claiming to have inside information, and told me he did not have a working knowledge of the case, it was just his intuition.  That got me thinking about my original thoughts on this topic when Bergdahl l first went missing, and what made to decide to make the post I did. It just seemed that everyone was too quick to hang a desserter tag around his neck.
> 
> I'm going to let this theory go, as I reread my posts there could be the perception I am supporting or defending him, and that is certainly not the case.


 
A defense lawyer is looking for angles that make his client appear to be the victim.  In this case, maybe that Bergdahl was "picked on" unmercifully, harrassed, constantly bullied, cruelly pranked, he feared for his safety blah blah blah blah...but they'd have to prove it. And the Army has channels to report that kind of abuse. I haven't read anything indicating this was the case. And even if were, it doesn't excuse desertion.

Fry him.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 30, 2015)

...sigh...

Geez...didn't predict this happening   ...  :wall:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/29/politics/bergdahl-swap-prisoner-militant-activity/index.html
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/0...tm_campaign=Breaking

Breaking: U.S. Intel Officials Say Taliban Terror Mastermind Traded for Bergdahl Is Back at Work
BY SEAMUS KELLEHER (11 MINS AGO) | EDITOR'S CHOICE, HEADLINES, MILITARY, POLITICS, WORLD
IJRSHAREEMAIL
5 Terrorists Swapped for Bergdahl
Just two days after reports surfaced that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl will be labeled a deserter by the U.S. Army, intelligence officials now suspect that one of the five terrorists swapped for Bergdahl is back to work.

According to CNN:

The officials would not say which of the five men is suspected. But an ongoing U.S. intelligence program to secretly intercept and monitor all of their communications in Qatar turned up evidence in recent months that one of them has “reached out” to try to encourage militant activity, one official said. The official would offer no further details.

Under current law, this act placed the man in the category of being “suspected” of re-engaging in terrorist or insurgent activities. However, several officials say there is now a debate inside the administration that the intelligence may be stronger than the “suspected” classification. Some elements of the intelligence community believe the information is strong enough to classify the man as “confirmed” for returning to illegal activities.
The Obama administration has received a lot of heat for the swap of Bergdahl for the five mid-to-high level threat Guantanamo detainees. After this new information, there will be a lot more heat coming.

The situation: Five known terrorists were swapped for a soldier who’s likely soon to be labeled a deserter by the U.S. Army. One of those five terrorists is now “back to work.” That bloody business happens to be killing Americans.

Just days after the controversial trade, President Obama reinforced his decision by declaring:

“I wouldn’t be doing it if I thought that it was contrary to American national security.”
Given the new military intelligence and recent reports surrounding Bowe Bergdahl, this already controversial move by the Obama administration just became even more questionable.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 30, 2015)

You mean the terrorist _broke his promise to be good??!!:wall:_


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 30, 2015)

Shhh...don't tell anyone!


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 30, 2015)

Fuck Bergdahl.  Fuck the dumbass decisions this administration keeps making.  Fuck extremists.  Fuck Hollywood attention whores.  Fuck Pakistan.  Fuck cancer.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 30, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Just days after the controversial trade, President Obama reinforced his decision by declaring:
> 
> “I wouldn’t be doing it if I thought that it was contrary to American national security.”



Um, What?  :wall:


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 30, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay, I've been thinking about something for a while - This seems like it should be pretty clear and cut, he left his unit, ended up with Taliban.  Hell this LINK from 2010 has them claiming that Bergdaul was working for them.  In the photo they released (within the link), he sure does not appear to be suffering.  What's to question?    Unless he was just going along to keep his ass alive after being captured.
> 
> Are there are significantly more compliated facts to this story that we (the general public) are not aware?  It initially bothered me that men from his unit were so proactive in coming out to the press claiming what a terrible soldier he was.  Why would they do this?  The longer this goes on, the more my "bullshit detector" is moving into overdrive.  There is a part of me that wonders what was happening in that unit...was life so terrible for Bergdahl that he decided to get the F out before something happened to him?  To take his chances in making it to another unit?  I'm starting to think something is hinky here.
> 
> Okay, that's it...don't call me a "commie traitor lover", all the politics aside, something is just not adding up for me.




The dude was a shitbag, and the 501'st was generally a great place to be for the most part.


----------



## CDG (Jan 30, 2015)

I can't even begin to understand the thought process that leads people to thinking this is a surprise.  The absolute ignorance of the situation and the type of people they were releasing is incomprehensible.  And yet, it happens so often, and the response is so laughable, that it's not even surprising anymore.  We expect ineptitude from politicians these days.  Expect it!  How fucked up is that?


----------



## x SF med (Jan 30, 2015)

And to top it all off, they promoted the shitbag to an NCO even though it was documented that he was a shitbag.


----------



## Brill (Jan 30, 2015)

x SF med said:


> And to top it all off, they promoted the shitbag to an NCO even though it was documented that he was a shitbag.



I wonder how many NCOs requested immediate transfer from his unit?


----------



## pardus (Jan 30, 2015)

x SF med said:


> And to top it all off, they promoted the shitbag to an NCO even though it was documented that he was a shitbag.





lindy said:


> I wonder how many NCOs requested immediate transfer from his unit?



I'd say none, as promotions are automatic, and the prick was gone for 5 years.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 30, 2015)

E-5 is now automatic?   Holy mother of satan....


----------



## pardus (Jan 30, 2015)

x SF med said:


> E-5 is now automatic?   Holy mother of satan....



For POWs... Big difference from the normal requirements now.

ETA: you already know that dumbass. Nick Rowe ring any bells?


----------



## x SF med (Jan 31, 2015)

pardus said:


> For POWs... Big difference from the normal requirements now.
> 
> ETA: you already know that dumbass. Nick Rowe ring any bells?



COL Rowe was an officer...   I always believed that promotions were not made for NCOs until return, with a board.... that's what happened to Jon Caviaini.


----------



## pardus (Jan 31, 2015)

x SF med said:


> COL Rowe was an officer...   I always believed that promotions were not made for NCOs until return, with a board.... that's what happened to Jon Caviaini.



I guess it changed at some point then.  

Doesn't absolve you from being a wanker though.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 31, 2015)

pardus said:


> I guess it changed at some point then.
> 
> Doesn't absolve you from being a wanker though.



Oh, the abnormal circumstances of his flight from base should have flagged him as being unpromotable...  you cannot be promoted during an Unauthorized Absence.


----------



## pardus (Jan 31, 2015)

x SF med said:


> Oh, the abnormal circumstances of his flight from base should have flagged him as being unpromotable...  you cannot be promoted during an Unauthorized Absence.



I think the Army was being PC and saying, "innocent until proven guilty".

If I was in charge, at the extraction point, with the Taliban still present, I would have executed him in front of them, then put his body on the chopper, said my goodbyes to the TB guys very politely, and then flown off to dump his body in the ocean. 

That's a message.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 31, 2015)

pardus said:


> I think the Army was being PC and saying, "innocent until proven guilty".
> 
> If I was in charge, at the extraction point, with the Taliban still present, I would have executed him in front of them, then put his body on the chopper, said my goodbyes to the TB guys very politely, and then flown off to dump his body in the ocean.
> 
> That's a message.



fuck it.... the chopper should have had miniguns mounted and not landed, just killed everybody at the transfer point....


----------



## pardus (Jan 31, 2015)

x SF med said:


> fuck it.... the chopper should have had miniguns mounted and not landed, just killed everybody at the transfer point....



Unfortunately the TB are smarter than to allow that to happen, they were well positioned for such an event.
A tactical nuke however would've facilitated that plan of action. 
One I would fully support.


----------



## Brill (Jan 31, 2015)

x SF med said:


> Oh, the abnormal circumstances of his flight from base should have flagged him as being unpromotable...  you cannot be promoted during an Unauthorized Absence.



No, "he served with honor and distinction"!

Sorry, meant to include a :whatever:


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2015)

pardus said:


> For POWs... Big difference from the normal requirements now...


 
Bergdahl must have been awarded automatic conditional POW status, which is insane considering what was known about his disappearance 5 years ago. The case has similarities to that of Bobby Garwood's   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Garwood who was listed as AWOL/Deserter/Collaborator, and those charges seem to be just as appropriate in Bergdahl's case. But who am I to question the lunatics running the asylum?



LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Fuck Bergdahl.  Fuck the dumbass decisions this administration keeps making.  Fuck extremists.  Fuck Hollywood attention whores.  Fuck Pakistan.  Fuck cancer.


 
^^^There it is.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jan 31, 2015)

The granting of POW status on Bergdahl was probably more of a media thing.  For many years, there were suspicions about his intent when he walked off the COP; after all, why else would the TB/HQN have kept a white boy alive that long.  Those suspicions were kept from the general public, and only spoken of in military circles, often with some level of classification attached to it.  Notice that there wasn't a major push for his return in the press for all the years that he was gone, only some grass roots social media campaigns.  It would have been poor form for the DoD to come out and say "Fuck him, let him die" on national television.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Jan 31, 2015)

lindy said:


> No, "he served with honor and distinction"!



I agree that he served, and he did distinguish himself, but; by his actions, he lacks honor. For as long as he lives, he will be seen as turning and walking away from his fellow soldiers. There is no other way to describe what he did. The press, pundits, and talking heads can spin this any way they want, but in the end, he did walk away, and stayed away from his fellow soldiers in time of war.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 31, 2015)

lindy said:


> No, "he served with honor and distinction"!



You may want to note that you are quoting Susan Rice - the disagreement and hate are coming in fast!


----------



## racing_kitty (Jan 31, 2015)

lindy said:


> No, "he served with honor and distinction"!





Ooh-Rah said:


> You may want to note that you are quoting Susan Rice - the disagreement and hate are coming in fast!



I'm quite certain he was being sarcastic.  The hate was just for general principle, because someone else said it and was dead on serious when they said it.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> ...For as long as he lives, he will be seen as turning and walking away from his fellow soldiers...


 
That matters to us. That matters to you and me and anyone who's ever worn the uniform honorably. But there are plenty of places among our fellow Americans where it doesn't matter at all, and a number of places where it will be viewed favorably, even heroically. The cowards who ran to Canada some decades ago were pardoned and welcomed back as courageous rebels who stood up for their beliefs. While we were maligned as baby killers. Hearing all the negative criticism about _American Sniper _I'm reminded of those days. It's happening again. We can only hope Bergdahl's conscious catches up with him someday.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jan 31, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> That matters to us. That matters to you and me and anyone who's ever worn the uniform honorably. But there are plenty of places among our fellow Americans where it doesn't matter at all, and a number of places where it will be viewed favorably, even heroically. The cowards who ran to Canada some decades ago were pardoned and welcomed back as courageous rebels who stood up for their beliefs. While we were maligned as baby killers. Hearing all the negative criticism about _American Sniper _I'm reminded of those days. It's happening again. We can only hope Bergdahl's conscious catches up with him someday.


 
I agree.

Also on a side note thank you and to all your Vietnam brothers and sisters for their service.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 31, 2015)

Okay...here is whats needs to be done for SGT Bergdahl...promote him and assign him as an "special" negotiator, due to his experience, and drop him in ISIS controlled territory.  When he is captured and on TV about to be beheaded, offer money to ISIS to do it slowly and painfully.  See?  ...  he is opening dialogue b/t us and them


----------



## pardus (Jan 31, 2015)

Marine0311 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Also on a side note thank you and to all your Vietnam brothers and sisters for their service.



Amen. Vietnam vets fucking rock!


----------



## x SF med (Feb 1, 2015)

Why don't we just burn Bergdahl in Effigy....   which is a small archaeological National Monument in Iowa.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 25, 2015)

Washington Post is reporting he will be tried for desertion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-missing-u-s-soldier-charged-with-desertion/


----------



## ZmanTX (Mar 25, 2015)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/03/25/bowe-bergdahl-charged-with-desertion.html

About time.

ZM


----------



## RetPara (Mar 25, 2015)

So.... Lets see how far that gets. I bet there boo-coo civilian attorneys lining up to defend him pro bono......


----------



## Brill (Mar 25, 2015)

POTUS will issue a pardon.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 25, 2015)

Okay, not being a great court martial mind, would this be a general court-martial?  

Also whether Bergdahl has a civilian attorney or a military attorney, this will be a high-profile case.  It would seem most members of the military would want him found guilty, and members of the current administration obviously would be looking for him to be found not guilty.

Will there be external or internal pressure on the judge and or jury to find a certain way?


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 25, 2015)

RetPara said:


> So.... Lets see how far that gets. I bet there boo-coo civilian attorneys lining up to defend him pro bono......


He already has a high-priced civilian attorney, he was quick on the draw to hire that attorney too.


----------



## AWP (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm a bit surprised he was charged, but I guess the real proof will be in his trial/ sentence. I want to believe this guy will pay with his life, or maybe life in prison, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some deal where he either has "time served" or something that releases him early.

I'm too skeptical and cynical to believe he'll do the time commensurate with his offense.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 25, 2015)

I would like to be pleasantly surprised by his sentence; however, I don't think I will be. 

I have the feeling that there have already been meetings concerning any type of possible sentencing and how it would be handled -- when and if -- it was handed down. 

I can also see a possible pardon coming down the road as well.


----------



## compforce (Mar 25, 2015)

I still stand behind http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/missing-captured-bowe-bergdahl.20046/page-12#post-350039
Plea to AWOL, time served, take the BCD and no back pay or e-3 back pay.  No benefits, do not pass go, do not collect $200

He had to have a trial, but there's no way the administration allows him to face death or life in prison after trading the 5 for him.

(Personally, I'd fill a firing squad with the members of units that had casualties looking for him and let them do their thing)


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 25, 2015)

I predict he pleads guilty to desertion, and they drop the second charge.
He gets 5 years, and gets parole after 1 year in.
Reduced in rank to PFC (?) at time of desertion, busted to PV1 as part of the sentence, which costs him what? .5Mil?
Book tour in 3 years.


----------



## compforce (Mar 25, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Book tour in 3 years.



Nope, I don't think he gets a book or movie deal.  At least not a mainstream one.  We may have a lot of flaws as a country, but even among the liberal left they still give lip service to patriotism.


----------



## AWP (Mar 25, 2015)

compforce said:


> Nope, I don't think he gets a book or movie deal.  At least not a mainstream one.  We may have a lot of flaws as a country, but even among the liberal left they still give lip service to patriotism.


 
I think it could go either way. The more time that passes, the softer the blow. By then Afghanistan will live or die without our troops and people can make "conclusions." It could be spun to make him mildly sympathetic or a lost soul rather than a dirtbag.

I want to believe that he'll disappear a la Casey Anthony, but I sadly think he can "salvage" his image in certain circles.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 25, 2015)

compforce said:


> Nope, I don't think he gets a book or movie deal.  At least not a mainstream one.  We may have a lot of flaws as a country, but even among the liberal left they still give lip service to patriotism.



I see Harvey Weinstien and his ilk all over this, making a sympathetic character out of Bergdahl.  I shit you not I see the script already, focusing on how his parents brainwashed him while growing up, and how his platoon bullied him throughout his time in the Army, to the point where he feared for his life and had to make a choice, be murdered by one of his own, or take his chances hiking through Afghanistan, trying to connect with a friendly unit.  They will show the 'torture' he endured while a prisoner, (in both Afghanistan and then of the US. Govt) and how hatred of the current administration pressured the Army into prosecuting him.  This pic will be nominated for, and likely win an Academy Award.   Quite honestly I would be rather shocked if this does not happen.


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 25, 2015)

> *ARTICLE 85 - DESERTION*
> (a) Any member of the armed forces who
> 
> (1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
> ...







> *ELEMENTS*
> (1) _Desertion with intent to remain away permanently_.
> 
> (a) That the accused absented himself or herself from his or her unit, organization, or place of duty;
> ...




The article 85 charges seems pretty cut and dry. The WaPo article said that the Army plans to charge him under the second clause, "Intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service."  Bergdahl's actions prior to deployment, subsequent writings, and comments to other soldiers paint a pretty clear picture: He planned to leave and never come back.   That's just my barracks lawyer opinion.  The article 99 charge might be a little more difficult to prove.



> *ARTICLE 99 - MISBEHAVIOR BEFORE THE ENEMY*
> Any member of the armed forces who before or in the presence of the enemy—
> 
> (1) runs away;
> ...





> *ELEMENTS
> (1) Running away.
> 
> (a) That the accused was before or in the presence of the enemy;
> ...



Did Bergdahl run away in order to avoid combat with the enemy?  By common definition he absolutely did.  However, looking over the explanation of the "before or in the presence of the enemy" leads me to believe that it may be tougher than that.  From: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl99.htm


> _*Explanation.*_
> 
> (1) _Running away._
> 
> ...


You could argue that due to the location of Bergdahl's PB, he was always "before the enemy", but it's not 100% clear.  Lawyers can do magical things with words, after all.  I think that he will probably be found guilty desertion at the very least, and stands a good chance of a "guilty" verdict on the article 99 charge as well.  As for sentencing.....no idea.  

I doubt that the administration will pardon him.  He's going to be found guilty and the administration will catch a ton of heat for that.  A pardon anywhere down the road would amount to tacit agreement with Bergdahl's principles, which is another headache that the administration doesn't want.  Will they try to influence the court proceedings?  It's possible: Obama caught heat for it two years ago for comments he made about pending sexual assault cases.  Those cases still have not been settled.  Additionally, he spoke out before the trial of Bradley Manning and got burned for it.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 25, 2015)

compforce said:


> I still stand behind http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/missing-captured-bowe-bergdahl.20046/page-12#post-350039
> Plea to AWOL, time served, take the BCD and no back pay or e-3 back pay.  No benefits, do not pass go, do not collect $200
> 
> He had to have a trial, but there's no way the administration allows him to face death or life in prison after trading the 5 for him.
> ...



Trading 5 to punish a deserter sends a message, he is still ours, and we deal with our own.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 25, 2015)

It's a step in the right direction no matter how it turns out.


----------



## Brill (Mar 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Trading 5 to punish a deserter sends a message, he is still ours, and we deal with our own.



Bob Levinson would have been a better trade and probably more politically advantageous.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 25, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> The article 85 charges seems pretty cut and dry. The WaPo article said that the Army plans to charge him under the second clause, "Intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service."  Bergdahl's actions prior to deployment, subsequent writings, and comments to other soldiers paint a pretty clear picture: He planned to leave and never come back.   That's just my barracks lawyer opinion.  The article 99 charge might be a little more difficult to prove.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Disagree (with you) on the Art 99 Charge.

(3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct *endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property;*

(4) casts away his arms or ammunition;

(5) is guilty of cowardly conduct;

(6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage;

(7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces;

(8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or

(9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle; shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.”

People in the AO can testify what adverse impacts his actions caused.


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 25, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> People in the AO can testify what adverse impacts his actions caused.


That's a really good point.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 26, 2015)

lindy said:


> Bob Levinson would have been a better trade and probably more politically advantageous.


 
We'll let him die in that hole while we help Iran build its nuclear arsenal.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 26, 2015)

lindy said:


> Bob Levinson would have been a better trade and probably more politically advantageous.



What? Those are two very seperate issues. One is an American soldier whether he deserted or not, being held by our enemy. The other is possibly a CIa agent held by another country for (supposedly)criminal actions. Who would we have traded for Levinson, not the guys we have in Gitmo.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 26, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> We'll let him die in that hole while we help Iran build its nuclear arsenal.



We are now helping Iran build nuclear weapons? Wow I didn't know that there was such a dramatic shift in our foreign policy since Mar 5th:
President Obama (Mar. 5): "We do not want to see a nuclear arms race in one of the most volatile regions in the world.  We do not want the possibility of a nuclear weapon falling into the hands of terrorists.  And we do not want a regime that has been a state sponsor of terrorism being able to feel that it can act even more aggressively or with impunity as a consequence of its nuclear power. 

That's why we have worked so diligently to set up the most crippling sanctions ever with respect to Iran.  We do believe that there is still a window that allows for a diplomatic resolution to this issue, but ultimately the Iranians' regime has to make a decision to move in that direction, a decision that they have not made thus far.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 26, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> We are now helping Iran build nuclear weapons? Wow I didn't know that there was such a dramatic shift in our foreign policy since Mar 5th:
> President Obama (Mar. 5): "We do not want to see a nuclear arms race in one of the most volatile regions in the world.  We do not want the possibility of a nuclear weapon falling into the hands of terrorists.  And we do not want a regime that has been a state sponsor of terrorism being able to feel that it can act even more aggressively or with impunity as a consequence of its nuclear power.
> 
> That's why we have worked so diligently to set up the most crippling sanctions ever with respect to Iran.  We do believe that there is still a window that allows for a diplomatic resolution to this issue, *but ultimately the Iranians' regime has to make a decision to move in that direction, a decision that they have not made thus far*.


 
I'm sure you know I'm being sarcastic. But in truth I don't have much faith in the negotiation process or the Iranians. I think they'll use it to their advantage and continue to try to develop weaponized nukes in secret. Hopefully I'm wrong.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 26, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> I'm sure you know I'm being sarcastic. But in truth I don't have much faith in the negotiation process or the Iranians. I think they'll use it to their advantage and continue to try to develop weaponized nukes in secret. Hopefully I'm wrong.



I don't know you are being sarcastic. With the amount of stuff you say that you do take seriously and a profound lack of smileys make me think you are serious.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 26, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I don't know you are being sarcastic. With the amount of stuff you say that you do take seriously and a profound lack of smileys make me think you are serious.


 
Rog that, sir. I'll make sure I hit the smiley depot in future (and I'm not being sarcastic or a smartass).


----------



## Brill (Mar 26, 2015)

"It doesn't matter how he ended up in a POW situation."  

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hill...obamas-hard-choice-bergdahl/story?id=24031960


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 27, 2015)

New details from the report: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/bergdahl-intended-to-walk-to-nearest-base/index.html

*Army report: Bergdahl intended to walk to nearest base*



> Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl told the military he left his unit in eastern Afghanistan in July 2009 *intending to walk to the nearest U.S. military outpost to report wrongdoing, believing he could not trust his own commanders to deal with his concerns*, according to sources familiar with the Army investigation. It is the clearest indication yet of the motive behind his decision to leave his post.
> 
> Bergdahl was planning to report what he believed to be problems with "order and discipline" in his unit, a senior Defense official tells CNN. A second official says Bergdahl had "concerns about leadership issues at his base."
> 
> ...




My eyes are rolling so hard that they're threatening to fall out 

I think that anyone interested in this case should really read the statement by Bergdahl's defense team.  It lays out a lot of the facts and problems with this case, both with public perception and military administration. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2015/images/03/26/bergdahl-03252015-press-statement.pdf Included is a two page letter from Bergdahl detailing parts of his time in captivity.  The letter starts on page 16.  It does not address his motivations (the defense statement does that) but sheds some light on his actions during captivity.  

I don't buy the notion that he wanted to walk to the nearest base to be a whistleblower.  I can buy the defense's statement that he is naiive, but an act like that (along with leaving your weapon and body armor) would also require someone phenomenally stupid.  I do find it interesting to see how the facts of this case have been evolving over the years.  It's really been difficult to make heads or tails of the issue at any one point in time.  

Honestly....a book about this story would probably be very appropriate, considering the facts.  I don't want him to see a dime of it; the fact that Americans died trying to get him and the sacrifices that the government had to make means that he shouldn't profit off of it.  But a story about the very real consequences of unfettered idealism during wartime would be very powerful.  There are so many directions that you could take a story like that.  It would be a fascinating read.  But it would also be morally repugnant if Bargdahl were allowed to profit off of it.  Perhaps if the government could somehow force the publisher to donate Bergdahl's fees to charity.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 27, 2015)

From my post at the top of this page, I predicted this story a couple of days ago, and you are already seeing  conversation around how he was tortured while in captivity.  I'm telling you, by the time the Hollywood spin machine is done, this fucker is going to be a hero.

See also, Wag the Dog.



Ooh-Rah said:


> <snip> and how his platoon bullied him throughout his time in the Army, to the point where he feared for his life and had to make a choice, be murdered by one of his own, or take his chances hiking through Afghanistan, trying to connect with a friendly unit.  <snip>


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 27, 2015)

Voice Intercept stuff has been yacked about on the interwebs for a long time, the "American who wants to join the Taliban" statements put a kink into the "I'll just walk to the nearest firebase" (after sending all my personal stuff home) theory.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 28, 2015)

The last e-mail he sent to his parents. He hated America, he hated the Army, he wanted to unass the whole fucking show. This is a guy who got a psych discharge from the Coasties 26 days into boot camp.  Read this and tell me he wanted to go anywhere near another US base.

_mom, dad,_

_The future is too good to waste on lies. And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be american. The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting. [...] [Three good sergeants had been forced to move to another company] [...] and one of the biggest shit bags is being put in charge of the team. [...] [My battalion commander was] a conceited old fool. [...] In the US army you are cut down for being honest... but if you are a conceited brown nosing shit bag you will be allowed to do what ever you want, and you will be handed your higher rank... The system is wrong. I am ashamed to be an american. And the title of US soldier is just the lie of fools. ... The US army is the biggest joke the world has to laugh at. It is the army of liars, backstabbers, fools, and bullies. The few good SGTs are getting out as soon as they can, [...] I am sorry for everything here. These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live... We don't even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks... We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them [...] I am sorry for everything. The horror that is america is disgusting._


This dude is fucking whacked and his shit is right out of _Apocalypse Now. _


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 28, 2015)

I read a comment on this article that said "he must have confused the Open Door Policy with the Open Gate Policy." :)

http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/breaking-bowe-bergdahl-deserted-his-post-to-report-wrongdoing/


----------



## Marine0311 (Mar 28, 2015)

This shitbag should be shot.


----------



## AWP (Mar 28, 2015)

Until the charges, the spin was for damage control and I find it hilarious no one talked about this "fear for his life" angle until after charges were filed. Yeah, he's in fear for his life alright...at Leavenworth, not Paktika provice.

Now the spin is a defense strategy which the defense has to prove or at least offset the prosecution's case. PR's taking a backseat to whatever bullshit his lawyer can throw against a courtroom wall. With this allegation he'll become a "victim" of an uncaring system and I'd expect the defense to use the suicide of Danny Chen to show how Bergdahl's life was in danger; "the system punishes the innocent" or whatever. Of course, his platoon will go on trial as well as part of the defense's strategy. They will be dragged through the mud to establish their credibility.

The world would be a better place if the TB has just killed him.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 28, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> The last e-mail he sent to his parents. He hated America, he hated the Army, he wanted to unass the whole fucking show. This is a guy who got a psych discharge from the Coasties 26 days into boot camp.  Read this and tell me he wanted to go anywhere near another US base.
> 
> _mom, dad,_
> 
> ...



Perhaps the prosecution may use this e-mail to their advantage.  I am willing to argue many in service have written similar things about poor leadership, good leaders being sent away or canned, disillusionment with the unit or the mission, disgust with the actions of others, etc.  The difference between Berghdal and others is the others make a conscious choice not to desert.  They find a way to express their frustration, whether through talking with friends, hobbies, lifting, writing, or simply saying "I'm sticking it out until my enlistment is up and then I'm ETSing."  Berghdal made a decision to do the opposite.  For that, he has been charged. 

I have no doubt the UCMJ process will play out fairly and appropriately.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 28, 2015)

Marine0311 said:


> This shitbag should be shot.



He would be the first since PVT Eddie Slovik in 1945.  It seems from the first article the execution was ordered and approved in order to prevent future desertions, especially at a time when the U.S. Army was on its heels a bit due to the winter German offensive.  I would like to think in the 21st century, with a volunteer army, that execution is no longer necessary.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-american-soldier-executed-for-desertion.html
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-execution-of-eddie-slovik-is-authorized


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 28, 2015)

You're dead wrong, execution is absolutely necessary given a volunteer army.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 28, 2015)

He's a marked man regardless.  There are enough people willing to punch him in the mouth that he will not spend too much time out and about.  His old man needs a kick in the nads too.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 28, 2015)

Guy joins the legion, returns on own accord: 4 years in federal prison.  Bergdahl is exchanged for five Taliban VIPs...executing him would send a serious message to our ranks and to the enemy.


----------



## medicchick (Apr 7, 2015)

> “This is what’s behind the Article 99 misbehavior charge. Essentially, there is clear evidence that he was ‘going over to the other side’ and he had a deliberate plan,” Shaffer said. “There’s two different strings here, Bill, to go off. First, one of the strings says that he was going to go off to Uzbekistan. He had made contact with the local Afghans and wanted to be moved to Uzbekistan, and then made contact with the Russians because he wanted to talk to Russian organized crime.”



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...eport-reveals-bowe-bergdahls-deliberate-plan/



> A 2009 NCIS investigation into Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl's disappearance found two possible motives for why he walked away from his base before being held captive by Taliban allies for five years, a retired Army official told Fox News.



http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Bo...ussian-Mob-Tony-Shaffer/2015/04/06/id/636811/

So, you have the US so much you'd rather go play with the Russian mob?:-/


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 8, 2015)

medicchick said:


> So, you have the US so much you'd rather go play with the Russian mob?:-/


I think the statement that his lawyer made in that letter from a few weeks back sums it up well: "He's incredibly naive and idealistic."


----------



## pardus (Apr 8, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I think the statement that his lawyer made in that letter from a few weeks back sums it up well: "He's incredibly naive and idealistic."



I think the statement "He's a stupid cunt" would be far more appropriate, and accurate.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 8, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I think the statement that his lawyer made in that letter from a few weeks back sums it up well: "He's incredibly naive and idealistic."


His motivations are awesome, 







.......during the sentencing phase.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 8, 2015)

Lemme see...US Army? Or Russian Mafia? Army? Or Russian Mafia?... Decisions, decisions... :-/:wall: 

Well there's one thing for sure. There probably aren't any  "fools" or "old fools" or "brown-nosing shitbags" or "wrong ideas" or "self-righteous arrogance" in the Russian Mob. And I'll bet they don't "cut down people who are honest." :-":whatever: Uzbekistan, here I come


----------



## SexyBeast (Apr 8, 2015)

He was probably seeking to be a gay prostitute with them


----------



## Gunz (Apr 8, 2015)

SexyBeast said:


> He was probably seeking to be a gay prostitute with them


 

Well of course, that _has_ to be it


----------



## SexyBeast (Apr 8, 2015)

LOL


----------



## Beagle (May 10, 2015)

The loser should be executed.  We traded 5 top level terrorists for this loser?  I hope he gets dishonorable discharge or at least a bad conduct discharge. 

My unit was quick in transferring out any problem child back to Germany so they can be chaptered out of the Army.

Well at least during his trial he can call the National Security Advisor as his character witness....what a joke.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/politics/rice-cnn-interview/


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 12, 2015)

...and reality sets in...

Look who's about to be released -

http://www.breitbart.com/natio...hanged-for-bergdahl/

_The five senior Taliban Commanders released from Guantanamo (GITMO) in exchange for the return of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl are set to be freed from their “luxurious” confinement in Qatar effective June 1.

These five hard-core terrorists are Mullah Norullah Noori, Abdul Haq Wasiq, Mullah Mohammad Fazl, Khairullah Khairkhwa and Mohammend Nabi Omari. They were classified as some of the most dangerous Taliban commanders held at GITMO, according to Thomas Joscelyn of The Long War Journal.

There is little doubt that these five Taliban commanders will return to the Afghanistan battlefield. 

The real issue that should not be overlooked is why these five hardcore terrorists were traded for the return of Bergdahl, a deserter, according to his platoon mates. Bergdahl left his guard post and walked away from his base in Afghanistan on June 30, 2009. He took off his body armor and left his weapon behind._


----------



## pardus (May 12, 2015)

Oh what a surprise! They'll be killing Coalition troops in no time!  Good job Obama! Your birthday present from the Taliban is in the mail!

Signed with sincere gratitude

Mullah Omar


----------



## Beagle (May 12, 2015)

They're just taking a play out of the Fast and Furious playbook.  They're going to be tracking these 5 terrorists through the media.  Fast and Furious was a huge failure but hey let's do it again and we might get a different result.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-didnt-know-about-operation-fast-and-furious/
Operation Fast and Furious was supposedly a program run solely by ATF that allowed nearly 2,000 guns to “walk” out of the United States and into the hands of high-ranking cartel members* so they could be tracked* and federal agencies could dismantle the drug trafficking organizations


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2015)

Hmmm....General McChrystal getting pretty frontal on the topic.

LINK

When Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was traded for five high risk Taliban commanders last summer, his platoon mates quickly hit the airwaves to expose him as a deserter. They said it was known he was a deserter for years. The Obama administration, however, gave the appearance to the American people that officials were unaware of the circumstances surrounding his capture. In fact, last year State Department Deputy Spokeswoman Marie Harf said allegations Bergdahl deserted were simply "rumors." Not only did President Obama hold a Rose Garden ceremony to honor Bergdahl, but administration officials Jay Carney and Susan Rice said he "served with honor and distinction."

But now, Army General Stanley McChrystal is confirming the accounts of Bergdahl's platoon mates and said in a recent interview with Fox News it was known Bergdahl deserted immediately after his disappearance.
*"My initial understanding, based on the reportings I got, that he had walked off intentionally," McChrystal said.*


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 15, 2015)

The Bergdahl case continues to get weirder.  Apparently, Bergdahl may have been indulging in a little Kunar Kush on the night that he was captured

*Former CIA operative: Bergdahl was ‘high’ when captured in Afghanistan*
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...rgdahl-was-high-when-captured-in-afghanistan/


> Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was apparently “high” with a small group of Afghan soldiers when they were picked up by nomads in 2009, according to a former CIA operative who was running a network of informants on the ground.
> 
> "The call came in and what it said was they had just broken out the message that an American soldier along with two or three Afghan soldiers had been captured or taken by a group of nomads,"Duane 'Dewey' Clarridge told Fox News, speaking for the first time publicly about the incident.
> 
> ...



This corroborates reporting from Afghan intelligence that the NY Post reported on in 2014:

*Afghan intelligence think Bergdahl was ‘probably high’ when he left base*
http://nypost.com/2014/06/05/afghan-intelligence-think-bergdahl-was-probably-high-when-he-left-base/


> As the mystery surrounding the disappearance of  Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl from his US military base in 2009 continues to grow, two questions remain: was he trying to find the Taliban? Or did he simply wander away and get captured?
> Adding to the mystery, the Washington Post has spoken to a group of Afghan villagers who say they spotted Bergdahl shortly after he slipped away from his base.
> 
> They told the paper they had forgot about their 2010 sighting of the Bergdahl — who appeared to be deliberately heading towards Taliban strongholds — until they saw his face on the news this week.
> ...



This report, if true, undermines a lot of credibility from Bergdahl's legal team.  Their proposition, that Bergdahl left the base in order to travel to a nearby COP in order to report wrongdoing, will be very difficult to prove if in fact he was high at the time.

EDIT: I know that Bergdahl was actually captured in Paktika province, but "Kunar kush" sounded like a much better euphemism


----------



## Brill (Jun 16, 2015)

I think he confused Towelie-ban?


----------



## CQB (Jun 17, 2015)

Gives another interpretation to "Got stoned an' ah missed it."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 23, 2015)

What. The. Fuck?

Why was he even allowed to be on leave?  Isn't this guy still facing a court martial?

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...leased-by-officials/

Bowe Bergdahl, the U.S. soldier who was released in a prisoner exchange in Afghanistan for five Taliban detainees, wound up in the middle of a pot raid earlier this week in northern California.

Captian Greg Van Patten with the Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office told Fox News Thursday that the county’s marijuana eradication team encountered Bergdahl on Tuesday while serving a search warrant on a home in Redwood City, Calif.

Van Patten said Bergdahl was detained, but ultimately was “determined not to be connected to the operation, at least there was no evidence to suggest he was involved.”

When Bergdahl encountered the law enforcement team, Van Patten said he identified himself while the sheriff’s office reached out to the Department of Defense. The agency confirmed Bergdahl was on leave, and asked for their assistance in getting him back.


----------



## AWP (Jul 23, 2015)

He should be charged with grand theft oxygen.


----------



## Viper1 (Jul 24, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What. The. Fuck?
> 
> Why was he even allowed to be on leave?  Isn't this guy still facing a court martial?
> 
> ...



Commanders have the ability to put Soldiers on leave or pass if they determine the Soldier not to be a flight risk or detrimental to the unit.  Given the toxic nature of his charges, it is doubtful SGT Bergdahl can do much of anything at his unit e.g. lack of access to facilities and systems, etc.  Sometimes, it is better to have the Soldier away, especially if a) the rest of the unit is on a block leave period or b) there is nothing at work he is able to do that is productive or c) it'll help good order and discipline for the Soldier to have minimized contact with others. 

I've done this twice with no regrets.  If the Soldier decides to go AWOL, he's just given the hangman more rope to stifle whatever military career he has left.  The consequences of going AWOL are worse and more swift than the consequences of facing the music.


----------



## PabstGOAT (Jul 29, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> He should be charged with grand theft oxygen.



Love it.


----------



## Loki (Aug 26, 2015)

Can't wait for his pending trial to get under way, which seems to be intentionally delayed at this point.


----------



## Gunz (Sep 2, 2015)

His article 32 hearing will be in mid-September. Unless it gets postponed.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 7, 2015)

> *Military selects rarely used charge for Bowe Bergdahl case*





> Observers wondered for months if Bergdahl would be charged with desertion after the deal brokered by the U.S. to bring him home. He was — but he was also charged with *misbehavior before the enemy*, a much rarer offense that carries a stiffer potential penalty in this case.


Military selects rarely used charge for Bowe Bergdahl case

His lawyer is suggesting that it is just piling on.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 7, 2015)

*"misbehavior before the enemy"*

Considering the enemy - and what those gents are known to do with each-other on their down time, kinda gotta wonder what kind of "misbehavin" was going on ! :-"


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 7, 2015)

Florida173 said:


> Military selects rarely used charge for Bowe Bergdahl case
> 
> His lawyer is suggesting that it is just piling on.


Probably piling on, but it also could signal they offered a plea deal that they turned down.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 7, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Probably piling on, but it also could signal they offered a plea deal that they turned down.


My limited experience with being involved with the Military Justice system is that they tend to pile on for everything.


----------



## pardus (Sep 7, 2015)

Florida173 said:


> Military selects rarely used charge for Bowe Bergdahl case
> 
> His lawyer is suggesting that it is just piling on.



Good article



> statistics show the U.S. Army prosecuted about 1,900 desertion cases between 2001 and the end of 2014



That's quite interesting.



> A soldier in Iraq was charged with cowardice in 2003 under Article 99 after he saw a mangled body and sought counseling, but the charges were later dropped.



WTF? Sounds like an asshole CoC in that unit!


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 7, 2015)

Florida173 said:


> My limited experience with being involved with the Military Justice system is that they tend to pile on for everything.


My SME thinks his lawyer is an asshole, and he will probably plea out.


----------



## Brill (Sep 19, 2015)

*General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence*

General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence

BLUF: Bergdahl believed EVERYTHING his COC did/said...EVERYTHING...so it's not his fault.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 19, 2015)

lindy said:


> *General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence*
> 
> General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence
> 
> BLUF: Bergdahl believed EVERYTHING his COC did/said...EVERYTHING...so it's not his fault.


Political general.

Let him plead guilty and get a DD.  
He can then use Obamacare to fix his health needs.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 19, 2015)

This cat needs to go into a dark hole where he gets bread and water for the rest of his life.


----------



## Gunz (Sep 19, 2015)

Since when is _idealism _an excuse to violate the UCMJ? Or a defense against charges incurred by doing so? You'd expect that the demise of conscription would have reduced the "need" to be so sensitive to the eccentricities of the Platoon Whack Job.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2015)

Defense claims:

-Bergdahl wasn't deserting; he left his post to walk 19 miles through Taliban-held territory to the nearest FOB
-he wanted to report his chain of command for "doing bad things"
-some of those bad things include the Sergeant Major's use of the term "plunder and pillage" and the Bn Cdr "kicking rocks" (wtf?)

source


----------



## Il Duce (Sep 19, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> Defense claims:
> 
> -Bergdahl wasn't deserting; he left his post to walk 19 miles through Taliban-held territory to the nearest FOB
> -he wanted to report his chain of command for "doing bad things"
> ...



Semantics maybe but those were the claims of the investigating officer testifying for the defense - and were not challenged by the prosecution.  Does that not make them facts, at least within the context of the trial?


----------



## Brill (Sep 19, 2015)

Il Duce said:


> Semantics maybe but those were the claims of the investigating officer testifying for the defense - and were not challenged by the prosecution.  Does that not make them facts, at least within the context of the trial?



Not unless he's an expert witness who can testify about the state of mind of the accused. Since he ain't there at the time...nope, it's merely conjecture.

Wonder if that is EXACTLY what the prosecution wants?

Intersecting that Big O wants to try terrorists in Federal court but not Fuckface?


----------



## Il Duce (Sep 19, 2015)

He's a two-star who led the investigation of SSG Bergdahl's disappearance.  I would think state of mind requires a psychologist but if he's not an expert witness I don't know who would be.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2015)

Il Duce said:


> Semantics maybe but those were the claims of the investigating officer testifying for the defense - and were not challenged by the prosecution.  Does that not make them facts, at least within the context of the trial?


Nope.  Just because someone said it, doesn't make it a fact.  The IO was reporting what he was told, and what Bergdahl said he felt.  That doesn't make it true.


----------



## AWP (Sep 19, 2015)

If this was a murder the court would find him competent to stand trial.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2015)

His Lawyer should just let him plead out and take the DD and loss of bennies.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 11, 2015)

latest on Bergdahl:  recommended for Special Court Martial, means max one year in jail and no dishonorable discharge

Bergdahl To Receive "Special Court Martial;" Jail Time And Dishonorable Discharge Now Extremely Unlikely


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 11, 2015)

i quit


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## DA SWO (Oct 11, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> latest on Bergdahl:  recommended for Special Court Martial, means max one year in jail and no dishonorable discharge
> 
> Bergdahl To Receive "Special Court Martial;" Jail Time And Dishonorable Discharge Now Extremely Unlikely


Maybe, I thought General came in two flavors.  Under honorable conditions and Not under honorable conditions.


----------



## policemedic (Oct 12, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> latest on Bergdahl:  recommended for Special Court Martial, means max one year in jail and no dishonorable discharge
> 
> Bergdahl To Receive "Special Court Martial;" Jail Time And Dishonorable Discharge Now Extremely Unlikely



Last one out turn out the lights, will ya?


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 12, 2015)

How the Army can claim no losses looking for him boogles the mind.


----------



## AWP (Oct 12, 2015)

What a fucking joke. Might as well burn the UCMJ and delete the Army Values.

That shitbird can vote and own a gun.

'Merica.


----------



## Etype (Oct 12, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> What a fucking joke. Might as well burn the UCMJ and delete the Army Values.
> 
> That shitbird can vote and own a gun.
> 
> 'Merica.


There are plenty of otherwise solid performers who make lesser mistakes and suffer worse consequences semi-regularly.

ETA- What Bergdahl did was not a mistake, I was mistaken. What he did was a conscious, negligent, epic fuck up that resulted in considerable loss of resources to include lives.


----------



## medicchick (Oct 12, 2015)

They better strip his money/backpay and ability to apply for benefits too.  If not he REALLY got away with everything.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 12, 2015)

Just wait till the end of this whole mess and he's out of the military and he files his VA claim......:wall:


----------



## pardus (Oct 12, 2015)

Kraut783 said:


> Just wait till the end of this whole mess and he's out of the military and he files his VA claim......:wall:



Killing would be too good for that POS!


----------



## Grunt (Oct 12, 2015)

One of the things I hate the most in today's world is the lack of personal accountability.

One of the things I hate even more than that is the lack of personal accountability in our military. The military should exude personal accountability.

Cases like this spit in the proverbial face of personal accountability.


----------



## pardus (Oct 12, 2015)

Agoge said:


> One of the things I hate the most in today's world is the lack of personal accountability.
> 
> One of the things I hate even more than that is the lack of personal accountability in our military. The military should exude personal accountability.
> 
> Cases like this spit in the proverbial face of personal accountability.



Agreed.
Every time I'm up for my next NCOER and they ask what I've done above and beyond my duties, I'll respond, "not gone on a gay camping trip with the Haqqani scout group".


----------



## Salt USMC (Oct 13, 2015)




----------



## AWP (Oct 13, 2015)

Kraut783 said:


> Just wait till the end of this whole mess and he's out of the military and he files his VA claim......:wall:



There's a problem when you're praying for the VA to be the VA and inadvertently give Bergdahl the justice he deserves.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 13, 2015)

Kraut783 said:


> Just wait till the end of this whole mess and he's out of the military and he files his VA claim......:wall:


That's my issue.
I don't care if he goes to jail, but I'd love to see him planted into the ObamaCare system.


----------



## Gunz (Oct 13, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Maybe, I thought General came in two flavors.  Under honorable conditions and Not under honorable conditions.


 
Apparently General under Honorable _is _less than Honorable because there's not sufficient meritorious service to warrant an Honorable Discharge; and then there's an Other-Than-Honorable, OTH, for misconduct...which would be the best Bergdahl could hope for if this were not such a politically influenced exception to the UCMJ.  IMV he doesn't deserve even that.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 13, 2015)

A General discharge is bullshit, six months after discharge, it can be changed to honorable.

First and foremost, they need to take those SGT stripes off him. He didn't earn them, he doesn't deserve them, and the fact that he was caught with pot while on leave, should be sufficient enough to pull some rank.

Second, he should not be considered a POW, strip the medal and all benefits that come with it.

Third, he should receive no back pay, or if he already has, he should be required to pay it back, DFAS can do that without any legal mumbo-jumbo.

Then, do whatever they feel is "politically correct" on the legal crap. It's pretty obvious that the Army didn't value the money spent looking for him, or the lives of the honorable soldiers who died trying to find him. If they did, they would be putting this shitbird in front of a firing squad.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 13, 2015)

I do not believe this is a reflection on the Army as a whole, but instead, via the gaming of the system through trades, favors, and promises of promotion,  a painful reminder of the behind the scenes politics that affect these decisions -


----------



## Brill (Oct 13, 2015)

It makes one wonder what he would have leaked from his jail cell.

If they have to pay him, it should be in Afghani dinars.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 4, 2015)

lindy said:


> *General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence*
> 
> General: ‘Unrealistically idealistic’ Bowe Bergdahl does not deserve jail sentence
> 
> BLUF: Bergdahl believed EVERYTHING his COC did/said...EVERYTHING...so it's not his fault.


Anyone want to guess who got his 3rd star yesterday?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 4, 2015)

Disgraceful...


----------



## Grunt (Nov 4, 2015)

What shall I say about these things?

Not sure, but "surprised" isn't one of them!


----------



## Gunz (Nov 4, 2015)

POTUS held a press conference with Daddy & Mommy Taliban. He traded terrorists for this dude. If Bergdahl gets jail time it means POTUS was _wrong _so Bergdahl will not get jail time.


----------



## Tbone (Nov 4, 2015)

I swore in to the Army last week and before we took the oath; we were briefed with an informational video with questions at the end. One of the questions was, "what is the penalty for desertion during a time of war?" I chuckled a bit when he said that it was death and always will be...:wall:


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 4, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> POTUS held a press conference with Daddy & Mommy Taliban. He traded terrorists for this dude. If Bergdahl gets jail time it means POTUS was _wrong _so Bergdahl will not get jail time.



The hate is not for you, my friend; but the truth you just stated.


----------



## AWP (Nov 4, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Anyone want to guess who got his 3rd star yesterday?



At least we know how this story will end....not that we saw this coming or anything, but now we know.

When the verdict is announced it won't last more than maybe 24 hours before it is replaced. Maybe 24 hours. Buried like Hoffa.


----------



## Brill (Dec 9, 2015)

Whatever happened with his?


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 9, 2015)

lindy said:


> Whatever happened with his?


Was just wondering about this.  

Guess the President might be in some hot water: House report charges Obama broke law in Bergdahl swap - CNNPolitics.com


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 9, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Was just wondering about this.
> 
> Guess the President might be in some hot water: House report charges Obama broke law in Bergdahl swap - CNNPolitics.com



Color me shocked.


----------



## Brill (Dec 9, 2015)

Fucking Right-wing Conspiracy! If the President does it, it's NOT illegal!


----------



## nobodythank you (Dec 9, 2015)

lindy said:


> Fucking Right-wing Conspiracy! If the President does it, it's NOT illegal!


Except when he is a Republican, then it is fascism.


----------



## pardus (Dec 9, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> Except when he is a Republican, then it is fascism.



And racist.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2015)

Lawmakers accuse White House of concealment in Bowe Bergdahl prisoner swap


----------



## compforce (Dec 10, 2015)

In new ‘Serial’ podcast, Bowe Bergdahl says he likened himself to Jason Bourne before capture

Think he cleared it with the PAO before he did this "interview"?  I don't.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 10, 2015)

compforce said:


> In new ‘Serial’ podcast, Bowe Bergdahl says he likened himself to Jason Bourne before capture


Don't really know what to say, other than...that fuckin' guy...


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 10, 2015)

compforce said:


> In new ‘Serial’ podcast, Bowe Bergdahl says he likened himself to Jason Bourne before capture
> 
> Think he cleared it with the PAO before he did this "interview"?  I don't.


His lawyer is using this as a tactic, or he's dumber than I envisioned.


----------



## AWP (Dec 10, 2015)

Growing up I was raised on white bread, but as an adult I've come to enjoy wheat. Now, whole grain is okay except you have the "whole grain" part; I don't like to crunch my way through bread. A good black bread with butter is tasty, but I've never been a fan of rye. Wraps....those are the opposite as I'd rather have a "White" wrap than a wheat. Sourdough just sucks as far as I'm concerned, I just never enjoyed it.

With that said, I think this sandwich uses sourdough. "Sourdough: the official bread of the Bowe Bergdahl Shit Sandwich."


----------



## Gunz (Dec 10, 2015)

That's a _Sergeant _Shit Sandwich with pickles and backpay....and probably a get out of jail free card.


----------



## Brill (Dec 10, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Growing up I was raised on white bread, but as an adult I've come to enjoy wheat. Now, whole grain is okay except you have the "whole grain" part; I don't like to crunch my way through bread. A good black bread with butter is tasty, but I've never been a fan of rye. Wraps....those are the opposite as I'd rather have a "White" wrap than a wheat. Sourdough just sucks as far as I'm concerned, I just never enjoyed it.



Does bread mean bread here or is there a hidden meaning that is really overt?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 12, 2015)

lindy said:


> Does bread mean bread here or is there a hidden meaning that is really overt?


No, the shit sandwich not only tastes like shit, but sour shit.


----------



## medicchick (Dec 14, 2015)

> A top Army commander on Monday ordered that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl face a court-martial on charges of desertion and endangering troops stemming from his decision to leave his outpost in 2009, prompting a huge manhunt in the wilds of eastern Afghanistan and landing him in nearly five years of harsh Taliban captivity.
> 
> The decision by Gen. Robert B. Abrams, head of Army Forces Command at Fort Bragg, N.C., means that Sergeant Bergdahl, 29, faces a possible life sentence, a far more serious penalty than had been recommended by the Army’s own investigating officer, who had testified that a jail sentence would be “inappropriate.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/u...-court-martial-on-desertion-charges.html?_r=0

About time.


----------



## JBS (Dec 14, 2015)

Not even looking for crossthread points, but the Bowe Bergdahl trade would have been one of those shitty, absolutely absurd deals that never would have occurred if we had a CINC / cabinet that had any negotiation skill.

We got a shitbird deserter in exchange for 5 top level international terrorists.  Yet another in a list a thousand points long on why I'm voting for Trump if he prevails over the entrenched establishment GOP.

A shit deal like that is the outcome of only two possibilities:  1. incompetence when negotiating, or 2. complicity with terrorists.

And since we know it isn't complicity, we need to get rid of the incompetence.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 15, 2015)

Good for Gen Abrams ordering this dickhead court martialed. No matter how it plays out, Obama has some presidential  pardons at the end of his term. And I seem to remember him walking away from a Rose Garden news conference with his arms around Daddy & Mommy Taliban...


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 15, 2015)

I think Bowe allowing serial to tell his story pushed the Army into the GCM direction.
He could have kept his yap shut, pled to AWOL and been in Idaho by now.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 15, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> I think Bowe allowing serial to tell his story pushed the Army into the GCM direction.
> He could have kept his yap shut, pled to AWOL and been in Idaho by now.


Agreed, I think Army was waiting for this to fade away into the night. That PVT sealed his fate with talking to public media. Stupid is as stupid does. I hope they give his sorry ass life.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 15, 2015)

Yeah there is no way you can listen to Serial and not think this dude deserted.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Dec 15, 2015)

Looks like any plans Bergdahl may have had for making $$ from writting a book, is looking dimmer and dimmer by the minute. Have no doubt, that he was looking at this idea when he came back.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 15, 2015)

Hoping for some higher-level discussion here on SS than I've seen on other places where this article was posted 



> What I will say is this: Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is an American citizen, and an American Soldier.  He might be a poor one with horrendous judgement but that does not matter. He is ours.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 15, 2015)

He may be ours, but he is not one of us. 

He may wear SGT stripe's, but he didn't earn them, doesn't deserve the honor and respect that comes with wearing them.

He may wear an Army uniform, but he left his post and quit his unit.

He may have stupid ideas of being a super soldier, but his inability to be a good PVT and follow the most simple of tasks (general orders) got fellow soldiers killed.

If we're going to maintain any form of integrity in the issue, we need to stop insulting every NCO past and present and rip that rank off his chest. Stop allowing him to be paraded in the media as one of our best soldiers "the NCO". We need to not hide, what he did, who was hurt and killed because of his actions, how much money was wasted because he couldn't follow basic orders, and most of all we need show the American people that we are above the political correctness and political swings of our elected government. We're soldiers, we should act like it, and when one of our own doesn't, we should address it properly and quickly. 

Awarding him a POW medal, back pay, promotion to the NCO ranks and allowing him to get busted smoking dope and talk to open source media, IMHO, is not in keeping with our traditions or what is expected of us as soldiers.

Should we have got him out of that Taliban hell hole, yes, he is an American citizen. Should change the punishment he deserves for what he did, absolutely not.

My $.02

ETA: @Marauder06, I'm not trying contradict your opinion or say that you're wrong with regards to him being one of our own. I was trying to offer my personal feelings on the matter, and I hope they don't seem too over the top in response. I have a real problem with how he has been handled and what he has been given/allowed.


----------



## JBS (Dec 15, 2015)

Not to mention the men he endangered searching for him.


----------



## medicchick (Dec 15, 2015)

JBS said:


> Not to mention the men he endangered searching for him.


You mean the men who died looking for him.


----------



## Viper1 (Dec 15, 2015)

As an aside, I'm happy to be a part of this group, a group where civil debate and discussion occurs (sometimes heated) after which we say "good day" and carry on being friends, comrades, and acquaintances.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 15, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> He may be ours, but he is not one of us.
> 
> He may wear SGT stripe's, but he didn't earn them, doesn't deserve the honor and respect that comes with wearing them.
> 
> ...



It's all good brother, this article isn't my opinion and to be honest I don't agree with it.  I just thought it was well written and worth discussing.  Even if it was my opinion, I posted it here seeking well-formed commentary, which is what you provided.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 16, 2015)

For the record, this article is more in line with how I personally feel:



> The Marine Corps has already tried, convicted, and sentenced its deserter to prison; it’s time for the Army to do the same with theirs.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 18, 2015)




----------



## Gunz (Dec 18, 2015)

Bwaaaaahhaaaaaaa^^^


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2015)

Bergdahl enters "no plea". 

Help me understand that, what is the strategy to say nothing, vs. pleading "not guilty"?

Bowe Bergdahl Enters No Plea at Arraignment


----------



## Centermass (Dec 22, 2015)

It's either the equivalent of "Nolo Contendere" in other words, "No Contest" or has deferred himself from entering a plea until a later date.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2015)

He wore all ten overseas stripes.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 22, 2015)

ThunderHorse said:


> He wore all ten overseas stripes.



It is what is authorized. He is as of now authorized to wear them.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 22, 2015)

ThunderHorse said:


> He wore all ten overseas stripes.


He presumed to have served honorably until proven otherwise.

IMO he royally screwed himself with the Serial Podcast.  He essentially called out the Army, and Big Army didn't take kindly to it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that they went GCM vice SCM (day after?) after the podcast.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 22, 2015)

I hope they take his ass out in front of a 82nd division formation and rip all that shit off his uniform when this is all said and done.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 22, 2015)

Unfortunately with this "tool", I won't be shocked or surprised regardless of the verdict.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 22, 2015)

He convicted himself with the Serial Podcast, it's admissible.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 23, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I hope they take his ass out in front of a 82nd division formation and rip all that shit off his uniform when this is all said and done.



Actually, if they were doing any marching and stripping of awards, it would be in Alaska in front of 4th Brigade 25th Infantry, as his "owning unit" is still 1st Bn 501st PIR as far as I know.


----------



## x SF med (Dec 23, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Actually, if they were doing any marching and stripping of awards, it would be in Alaska in front of 4th Brigade 25th Infantry, as his "owning unit" is still 1st Bn 501st PIR as far as I know.



Then do it in winter and strip him naked should he be convicted.  What makes it even worse for him is that he got the promotion to SGT, he's an NCO before the GCM, his statements on the Serial Podcast are completely damning - he admitted to desertion, and there will be evidence put forth that other soldiers died in the search for him. 

This misguided fucknut has also been played as a pawn in some hallucinogen fueled chess game run by the Executive Branch - 5 high level enemy commanders/leaders fro one fully documented poor soldier seems very unrealistic.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 23, 2015)

I may be contradicting myself, but we did owe him recovery... should have been done better.... but not so much recovery for him, but recovery for us, as he owes US for his actions.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 23, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> I may be contradicting myself, but we did owe him recovery... should have been done better.... but not so much recovery for him, but recovery for us, as he owes US for his actions.



These are my thoughts exactly. My wife and are listening to this together, and what I said to her is "he is still our shitbag."


----------



## x SF med (Dec 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> "he is still our shitbag."



Yuppers - but we shouldn't have traded 5 high level leaders for him, especially since at least 2 of them are known to be back on the front lines of terror, and the other 3 are most probably doing the same, we just haven't seen them in video yet.  

There is an indictment of unit security that has not been discussed - he should have been noted as missing/caught on his breakout before he had been gone for hours.  There are multiple failures here, Bergdahl walking away is just the most blatant.  Unit leadership - Officer and NCO, are culpable in this debacle.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 23, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Actually, if they were doing any marching and stripping of awards, it would be in Alaska in front of 4th Brigade 25th Infantry, as his "owning unit" is still 1st Bn 501st PIR as far as I know.



I think that would be great for his old unit, but doubt they fly his ass up there for that. He is no longer assigned there however, last unit I know of was USASOUTH at Fort Sam Houston, hints him wearing standard beret and not airborne maroon.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 24, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think that would be great for his old unit, but doubt they fly his ass up there for that. He is no longer assigned there however, last unit I know of was USASOUTH at Fort Sam Houston, hints him wearing standard beret and not airborne maroon.


Actually ARNORTH, stable duty.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 13, 2016)

Whelp, you guys are going to LOVE this one.  IKIS:

"Article 107 News has learned that in a quiet Rose Garden ceremony immediately following last night’s State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama officially recognized US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl as America’s “Most Deployed Soldier.”  He also presented Bergdahl with long-overdue Purple Heart and Prisoner of War medals, and promoted the young noncommissioned officer to the rank of staff sergeant."


----------



## compforce (Jan 13, 2016)

Makes me want to write a novel:

Two Traitors in the Rose Garden - A story of love, stupidity and betrayal

btw, WTF is that thing under his SGT stripes?  I've never seen just the rocker pinned, usually it's
the whole patch pinned over the top of the old one.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2016)

I've been sitting here cussing for the past few minutes, trying to formulate some form of a response to this. I've got nothing...just hate.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> View attachment 14766 Whelp, you guys are going to LOVE this one.  IKIS:
> 
> "Article 107 News has learned that in a quiet Rose Garden ceremony immediately following last night’s State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama officially recognized US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl as America’s “Most Deployed Soldier.”  He also presented Bergdahl with long-overdue Purple Heart and Prisoner of War medals, and promoted the young noncommissioned officer to the rank of staff sergeant."



I hate you today...


----------



## Grunt (Jan 13, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I hate you today...



Brother...you know that didn't catch you by surprise...did it?

Clowns do what clowns do! I hate it as much as you, but it didn't surprise me...so I was already prepared to see it happen so that when it did, my blood pressure wouldn't go sky-high.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 13, 2016)

"The facts before they happen"  

Oh wait, sounds like MSM these days. :wall:


----------



## compforce (Jan 13, 2016)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> "The facts before they happen"
> 
> Oh wait, sounds like MSM these days. :wall:



Spoilsport!


----------



## medicchick (Jan 13, 2016)

compforce said:


> btw, WTF is that thing under his SGT stripes?  I've never seen just the rocker pinned, usually it's
> the whole patch pinned over the top of the old one.



Photoshop.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 13, 2016)

compforce said:


> Spoilsport!



Well it's pretty obvious if they actually read the article!


----------



## Grunt (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm doing push-ups and choking myself for missing the rocker....:blkeye:


----------



## compforce (Jan 13, 2016)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Well it's pretty obvious if they actually read the article!



I was looking to see how many people would just react to the post without reading the article...

(yes, I knew it was photoshop, I was trying to feed the fire)


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 13, 2016)

compforce said:


> I was looking to see how many people would just react to the post without reading the article...
> 
> (yes, I knew it was photoshop, I was trying to feed the fire)



Ah, my bad.


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 13, 2016)

compforce said:


> Makes me want to write a novel:
> 
> Two Traitors in the Rose Garden - A story of love, stupidity and betrayal
> 
> ...





Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I've been sitting here cussing for the past few minutes, trying to formulate some form of a response to this. I've got nothing...just hate.



The guy who can't finish a case study loves trolling with satire sites.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2016)

Yeah @Ooh-Rah pointed it out to me after my first post, lol. Still hating on the "Intelligent Osifur" for getting my blood pressure up that early in the morning...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 13, 2016)

Okay, before anyone give me shit for letting @Diamondback 2/2 in on the bit, he did seemed rather stressed about the whole thing and I did alert him via PM and not in the thread itself!


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay, before anyone give me shit for letting @Diamondback 2/2 in on the bit, he did seemed rather stressed about the whole thing and I did alert him via PM and not in the thread itself!



LMAO, I probably would've came back on around now, and raged for a page in a half how that traitor shitbag should be marched in front of a M1 Abrams and blown into oblivion, or some shit. I do appreciate you letting me know, as that PVT (I refuse to call him a SGT) is probably one issues of the whole GWOT, that pisses me off the most. Every time I see a picture/video clip of him wearing a US Army uniform my head feels like its going to explode from pure anger and resentment I hold for that cowardly piece of shit...


----------



## x SF med (Jan 13, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Yeah @Ooh-Rah pointed it out to me after my first post, lol. Still hating on the "Intelligent Osifur" for getting my blood pressure up that early in the morning...



the white rocker didn't give it away?  shame on you J, big shame....:wall::wall:


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2016)

x SF med said:


> the white rocker didn't give it away?  shame on you J, big shame....:wall::wall:



I couldn't tell it was white or that its PhotoShop on my phone. But yeah, I really should have just opened the article and read it, its pretty obvious. But as always, with this current government, anything is possible/believable these days.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Jan 13, 2016)

.





Marauder06 said:


> View attachment 14766 Whelp, you guys are going to LOVE this one.  IKIS:
> 
> "Article 107 News has learned that in a quiet Rose Garden ceremony immediately following last night’s State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama officially recognized US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl as America’s “Most Deployed Soldier.”  He also presented Bergdahl with long-overdue Purple Heart and Prisoner of War medals, and promoted the young noncommissioned officer to the rank of staff sergeant."



Any question now about where obama's loyalties are? As usual, this was another dark of night, and well out of sight of everyone. I have a lot of trouble trying to believe that obama is on the side of our military. In his actions, we are treated as a joke, while he downplays, and falls just short of overt support of ISIS. This is completely upside down, and we have terror walking our streets right now. Obama, the right man in the wrong place for the good of America. This just makes me sick.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 13, 2016)

I wish I could double-like a post!


----------



## Gunz (Jan 13, 2016)

RUMINT is that Obama will pardon Bergdahl and make him Secretary of the Navy. It makes perfect sense.


----------



## medicchick (Jan 13, 2016)

compforce said:


> I was looking to see how many people would just react to the post without reading the article...
> 
> (yes, I knew it was photoshop, I was trying to feed the fire)


Too damn early for me.


----------



## Brill (Jan 13, 2016)

He's a prime candidate for Green to Gold!


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 13, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> .
> 
> Any question now about where obama's loyalties are? As usual, this was another dark of night, and well out of sight of everyone. I have a lot of trouble trying to believe that obama is on the side of our military. In his actions, we are treated as a joke, while he downplays, and falls just short of overt support of ISIS. This is completely upside down, and we have terror walking our streets right now. Obama, the right man in the wrong place for the good of America. This just makes me sick.


It was a joke, man.  "Overt support of ISIS"?  Come on.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 13, 2016)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Well it's pretty obvious if they actually read the article!


Nobody got time for that.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Jan 13, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> It was a joke, man.  "Overt support of ISIS"?  Come on.



Seems like I'm not the only one who fell for the "joke". I guess the history Obama has is such that what you now say is a joke, is well within the moves I believe Obama would pull. Nothing, including this being a joke, will change what I think Obama is capable of, and where our military stands whth it's CIC.

As for his ISIS support, I said," short of overt support". He sure down plays the ISIS threat, why is he doing that?

Nice little joke.


----------



## x SF med (Jan 13, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Nobody got time for that.



I've read stuff by that author, definitely not worth the time bother reading any more of his nonsensical drivel.  He needs an NCO to proofread it for real humor and typos.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 14, 2016)

x SF med said:


> I've read stuff by that author, definitely not worth the time bother reading any more of his nonsensical drivel.  He needs an NCO to proofread it for real humor and typos.



Are saying that... that it wasn't funny AND witty??    That's going to make one Hugh Jashol very sad.


----------



## RetPara (Jan 15, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Are saying that... that it wasn't funny AND witty??    That's going to make one Hugh Jashol very sad.



It's funny AFTER you realize it's not true....  One thing I need to point out now.  IF you starting getting gay porn magazines in the mail at your office....  I had nothing to do with it....


----------



## x SF med (Jan 15, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> Are saying that... that it wasn't funny AND witty??    That's going to make one Hugh Jashol very sad.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 15, 2016)

RetPara said:


> It's funny AFTER you realize it's not true....  One thing I need to point out now.  IF you starting getting gay porn magazines in the mail at your office....  I had nothing to do with it....



Just what I need, more... wait what I MEANT was...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 16, 2016)

Update on This fucking guy -

More arguments heard in Bergdahl case

Bergdahl is among the "butt-hurt" test I have for President Obama. Meaning you will be able to tell how bitter his is in his final months based on who he pardons.


----------



## Gunz (Nov 16, 2016)

An interesting question.

On the one hand, you'd expect the President--who hugged Bergdahl's parents in the Rose Garden, and who went so far as to trade known terrorists for him--to complete the cycle and pardon the guy. POTUS elect Trump is waiting in the wings and any message he sends down the chain certainly won't help Bergdahl.

On the other hand, we just had an election that shook Democrats to the core, upsetting their preconception that most Americans thought like they did. If POTUS Obama was entertaining thoughts of a pardon, he might be reexamining those in light of the election. A pardon now might further damage his own party, one that's reeling from the Enlightenment of November 8th.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 16, 2016)

I don't see a pardon at all. They will probably convict him of something,  but give him time served, bust to E1, dishonorable discharge, and try to make it go away.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 25, 2017)

I am actually surprised to read this today. 

Judge won't throw out Bergdahl case over Trump's comments | Daily Mail Online

There is no doubt in my mind that President Trump has been sternly warned about referencing him in a future tweet. It would taken just one public comment from the President to turn this case more upside down that it already is. 

Quite honestly I don't know if we will ever know that "truth" about what went down with him - 

Was he really trying to escape a terrible command or was he truly looking to switch sides?  Does it even matter anymore?

My understanding is that he is currently an E5 living out his days manning a desk at Bragg. Of all the places to to send him....


----------



## AWP (Feb 25, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Does it even matter anymore?



It never did. Fuck that guy.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 25, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Was he really trying to escape a terrible command or was he truly looking to switch sides?



He was planning to walk 300 miles to Pakistan. That's desertion in time of war. Fuck that piece of shit.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 25, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am actually surprised to read this today.
> 
> Judge won't throw out Bergdahl case over Trump's comments | Daily Mail Online
> 
> ...



Trumps statements don't necessarily mean the board will vote his way, just like Obama's praising him didn't stop the Army from charging him.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 25, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Trumps statements don't necessarily mean the board will vote his way, just like Obama's praising him didn't stop the Army from charging him.



I disagree with your disagree.  While I do not recall President Obama "praising" Bergdahl, for the sake of argument I will concede that he did. That said, charging is different that convicting, and a sitting Commander-in-Chief making comments about a member of the military's potiential to be guilty or not-guilty, could certainly sway a military jury's opinion. 

_Mr. Fidell <Bergdahl's lawyer> had contended that Mr. Trump’s statements constituted “unlawful command influence,” which is defined in military case law as commanders or anyone with the “mantle of command authority” wrongly taking actions that influence decisions about a defendant’s fate._

From the judge:
_Nance wrote: 'We have a man who eventually became President of the United States and Commander in Chief of all the armed forces making conclusive and disparaging comments, while campaigning for election, about a soldier facing potential court-martial. ... The Court recognizes the problematic potential created by these facts.'
_
If Trump were to tweet/state something now about Bergdahl, (as President of the United States) it could torpedo the case.  I know that there was a similar situation some years ago that would act as precident but I cannot pull the circumstances up in my brain...to be continued. 

To be clear, I currently fall under the "fuck him"  category, but I reserve the right to raise questions about what is true vs. what Uncle Sam wants me to believe when it come to Bergdahl. Articles like this from News Week do give me a moment of pause on the topic...
_
Bowe Bergdahl: What the army doesn't want you to know
_
To add: The movie Wag the Dog played out more like a documentory to me than a movie.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 25, 2017)

From the article:
_
"When soldiers desert their posts in war, they typically run from the fight, toward safety. Bergdahl did the opposite, walking directly into his own kidnapping."_

This is a contradictory statement and conclusion made by a Newsweek writer that's supposedly in defense of Bergdahl but asserts that he deserted his post during wartime. *It doesn't matter which way you run* because you could be either stupid _or_ uninformed _or_ treasonous. And at no time was this motherfucker *ever* a victim of a kidnapping. He walked into enemy hands either accidentally or intentionally...but either way he's committed a serious crime. The fact that the Taliban treated him badly means nothing because _his _crime of desertion led to that treatment. What would've happened if his captors had treated him nicely, welcomed him into their ranks, worked him with the kind of shrewd finesse a modern intel agency might work a defector? He might be running with them today.

Fuck him. Blindfold. Cigarette. Firing squad.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 25, 2017)

So wait...since the deserters in Korea ran to the Norks it's ok?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 25, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> So wait...since the deserters in Korea ran to the Norks it's ok?


Dude what the fuck are you talking about?

Serious question - I have no idea what you are referencing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 25, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude what the fuck are you talking about?
> 
> Serious question - I have no idea what you are referencing.



See the post above mine, but from the article:

_"When soldiers desert their posts in war, they typically run from the fight, toward safety. Bergdahl did the opposite, walking directly into his own kidnapping. Over the course of his 1,797 days in blindfolds and chains, he was starved, beaten and under the constant threat of execution. For more than three years, he lived in a 6-by-6-foot steel cage with no running water, no toilet paper and severe chronic diarrhea."_

So this writer is attempting to justify his shit because the fucker didn't have a compass or friendly lines to fade into.  It doesn't matter where he deserted to, it just matters that he deserted.

Article is also from 13 months ago.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 26, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> So wait...since the deserters in Korea ran to the Norks it's ok?



Who are you talking about..Dresnok?

The answer in any case is no, it's not OK...especially in the Dresnok case.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 8, 2017)

Wonder how much of a circus this will become....

The Judge In Bergdahl Case Has Just Set A New Trial Date

Reading thru the details again, I was reminded that he was under Taliban control for five years.  Five fucking years....cripes.


----------



## Topkick (May 8, 2017)

"Bergdahl, 31, has admitted he willingly left his eastern Afghanistan post in 2009."

Why the delay? He admitted to it? I don't give a shit what anyone said about him. He admitted that he walked off the FOB, therefor putting his so- called brothers at risk. I understand the whole "fair trial" thing except when someone admits to the offense. He did it, now punish him.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 22, 2017)

And the trial is finally beginning....

Navy SEAL testifies that his career ended after getting shot while searching for Bowe Bergdahl


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 22, 2017)

The picture of him in his blues upsets me,  all those hash marks.....luckily I cant see the POW medal on him.

Edit: looking at his recent pictures from leaving court...was he not awarded the POW medal?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> The picture of him in his blues upsets me,  all those hash marks.....



"Most Deployed Solider in the US Army!"  ;)


----------



## Topkick (Jun 22, 2017)

Wtf? I get that the 82nd deploys.. But geez...


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 22, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Wtf? I get that the 82nd deploys.. But geez...


:wall:


----------



## AWP (Jun 22, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> And the trial is finally beginning....



The only date that matters is his execution at Leavenworth.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 22, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> :wall:



Is that all you got?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2017)

I got a satire disclaimer at the bottom of that article...


----------



## Topkick (Jun 23, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I got a satire disclaimer at the bottom of that article...



Ah. Didn't even read the satirical article. The same photo is in the real article that Ooh Rah posted


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2017)

It's a very similar photo, but with a badly-PhotoShopped SSG rocker underneath his legit E5 stripes.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 30, 2017)

Trial update....

Military Judge Upholds Rare Misbehavior Charge In Bowe Bergdahl Case


----------



## medicchick (Oct 6, 2017)

Slight update...



> Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was held captive by the Taliban for half a decade after abandoning his Afghanistan post, is expected to plead guilty to desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, two individuals with knowledge of the case said.



Bergdahl expected to plead guilty, avoid trial

Some of the wounded who searched for him are apparently going to testify at the sentencing hearing.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 6, 2017)

They better throw some lead at him.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2017)

medicchick said:


> Slight update...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow.  There is a wager I would have lost.


----------



## Gunz (Oct 6, 2017)

I hear that train a-comin...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2017)

I had forgotten this quote:

_During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump called Bergdahl a “dirty, rotten traitor” during a town hall in August 2015._


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 6, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I had forgotten this quote:
> 
> _During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump called Bergdahl a “dirty, rotten traitor” during a town hall in August 2015._



He's not wrong.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2017)

RackMaster said:


> He's not wrong.



I have to wonder, would he be forgoing this trial had Hillary won?  My gut says "no".  Love him or hate him, Trump's generals today are focused on things other than political correctness.    Clinton would still have them chasing their tails, and I cannot imagine General Mattis would be SecDef. 

Under Clinton, Bergdahl would have eventually walked.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 6, 2017)

f.


----------



## Grunt (Oct 6, 2017)

We will see how serious they are about his crimes once they give him his sentence!


----------



## Il Duce (Oct 6, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I have to wonder, would he be forgoing this trial had Hillary won?  My gut says "no".  Love him or hate him, Trump's generals today are focused on things other than political correctness.    Clinton would still have them chasing their tails, and I cannot imagine General Mattis would be SecDef.
> 
> Under Clinton, Bergdahl would have eventually walked.



Disagree.  Remember all that 'undue command influence' stuff people were screaming about when President Obama talked about getting rid of sexual harrassers in the military?  If the defense team thought executive influence was a factor it would have worked in their favor - as it would be a reason to throw out any verdict or have a mistrial declared.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Disagree.  Remember all that 'undue command influence' stuff people were screaming about when President Obama talked about getting rid of sexual harrassers in the military?  If the defense team thought executive influence was a factor it would have worked in their favor - as it would be a reason to throw out any verdict or have a mistrial declared.



I respect that you are in a better position to _know.  _But sir, I have a really really hard time believing he pleads out if Hillary is in the White House.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 6, 2017)

Goddamn I'd love to be the dogface ripping those Sgt stripes off of his uniform...CIB and that POW ribbon too, that son of a bitch hasn't earned either one.

I doubt they send him to prison, they will give him time served (from his time being held), reduction, dishonorable and let him keep his VA benefits. Who wants to make a bet? At best he gets 10 years, serves 3 and disappears,  well until the book comes out.


----------



## Frank S. (Oct 6, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> I hear that train a-comin...



Unkink that tube or you'll hear it again next time you fart.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 6, 2017)

So I had completey forgotten about Berghdal since when news first broke I was more worried about football and meeting the girl that I loved parents. But since seeing this in the recent posting list caused me to read through the entire thread and while I lean more towards amlove21's thoughts on getting him back, he now deserves capital punishment for the crimes he committed. 

I remember back in debate we had an argument regarding the ethics and morality of the death penalty and whether someone who may not have a full and logical understanding of their actions deserved capital punishment for their given crime. While you can argue mental state and special needs day and night, this is not the case. He fully admitted to desertion which occurred in a time of war and his actions led to the deaths and injuries of many good soldiers not to mention the untold damage that was caused by diverting resources and spending time searching for this guy.

I'm hoping that during sentencing they go for the death penalty, however since he pleaded out I'm guessing he'll get knocked down in rank, lose pay, and be dishonorable discharge, then be forgotten in 6 months by everyone if he hasn't been forgotten already.


Just my .02


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 7, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Disagree.  Remember all that 'undue command influence' stuff people were screaming about when President Obama talked about getting rid of sexual harrassers in the military?  If the defense team thought executive influence was a factor it would have worked in their favor - as it would be a reason to throw out any verdict or have a mistrial declared.


Disagree.
The Defense Team tried argued that point as high up as they could and lost the argument.
My wife called this one a year ago.
No jail time as captivity will get him off.
He loses all VA/DoD bennies, and we get to laugh at Obama for calling him a hero.


----------



## trin (Oct 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> He loses all VA/DoD bennies,


We can only hope.  That and BCD, rank reduced to E-1, and loss of CIB and POW medal.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 15, 2017)

Taliban Charges Bowe Bergdahl With Desertion

_QUETTA, PAKISTAN – Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl may be innocent of desertion as far as the U.S. Army is concerned, but in recent days the ex-prisoner of war now faces the same charges from the most unlikely direction: his former captors.

Afghan Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid has announced that the insurgent group, following its own internal investigation, would be charging Bergdahl with deserting his post — a crime punishable by death, public flogging, or lengthy imprisonment, although typically not in that order._


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 15, 2017)

Looks like we should extradite Bergdahl to the Taliban.


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 15, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Goddamn I'd love to be the dogface ripping those Sgt stripes off of his uniform...CIB and that POW ribbon too, that son of a bitch hasn't earned either one.
> 
> I doubt they send him to prison, they will give him time served (from his time being held), reduction, dishonorable and let him keep his VA benefits. Who wants to make a bet? At best he gets 10 years, serves 3 and disappears,  well until the book comes out.



I mean he earned his CIB earlier in that deployment. They were certainly in combat and he was an infantryman.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 15, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I mean he earned his CIB earlier in that deployment



Being aware of the source and not completely sure what the actual up- to- date regulations are, I do take this with a grain of salt.

Your awards and badges can be revoked for misconduct

But I would certainly consider desertion a form of misconduct.


----------



## Grunt (Oct 15, 2017)

I may be an extreme outlier on this issue, but, if you earned an award or medal...you earned it.

Just because you are a deserting clown dirtbag...you earned it...you earned it.

Punish him with whatever punishment is deemed necessary, but, I don't think his awards should have anything to do with that.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 15, 2017)

It doesn't matter much to me. The way I see it, he will always have to wear his desertion badge above his CIB.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 15, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Being aware of the source and not completely sure what the actual up- to- date regulations are, I do take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> Your awards and badges can be revoked for misconduct
> 
> But I would certainly consider desertion a form of misconduct.



Yep.  It can be revoked, and it should be revoked after the trial, that and his rank and anything else he "earned" on that deployment.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 15, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I mean he earned his CIB earlier in that deployment. They were certainly in combat and he was an infantryman.



Meeting the criteria for the badge is not the same as earning it.


----------



## Grunt (Oct 15, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Meeting the criteria for the badge is not the same as earning it.



I truly understand the sentiment of what you are saying, but unfortunately, in today's environment...they are one and the same....


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 15, 2017)

Agoge said:


> I truly understand the sentiment of what you are saying, but unfortunately, in today's environment...they are one and the same....



Not really. Some get it without meeting the criteria and some don't.


----------



## Grunt (Oct 15, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Not really. Some get it without meeting the criteria and some don't.



Then that is even worse. 

And even worse than that is those that give it out....


----------



## trin (Oct 15, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Taliban Charges Bowe Bergdahl With Desertion


Well played!


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 15, 2017)

Agoge said:


> Then that is even worse.
> 
> And even worse than that is those that give it out....



Couldn't agree more.


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 15, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Meeting the criteria for the badge is not the same as earning it.



Well everyone who was there and was interviewed for the podcast said he earned it. You get the badge for one instance, right or wrong, stripping someone of a badge they earned based on the criteria of the time and not defined as having criteria to maintain the badge, means he should keep it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 16, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Well everyone who was there and was interviewed for the podcast said he earned it. You get the badge for one instance, right or wrong, stripping someone of a badge they earned based on the criteria of the time and not defined as having criteria to maintain the badge, means he should keep it.



I disagree, he deserted, he loses everything.

They did it to this guy: Green Beret tells of shooting Taliban in CIA job interview, loses Silver Star for it


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 16, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> I disagree, he deserted, he loses everything.
> 
> They did it to this guy: Green Beret tells of shooting Taliban in CIA job interview, loses Silver Star for it



A badge and a valor award are different. Strip his rank and his POW medal and give him a dishonorable or put him in Leavenworth, whatever. I'm not that invested in this guy. But a CIB is just a badge meaning someone has performed the job of an infantryman in combat, something he did. Taking his badge and pretending he didn't doesn't really teach him a lesson like him sitting in confinement will.


----------



## Gunz (Oct 16, 2017)

Topkick said:


> It doesn't matter much to me. The way I see it, he will always have to wear his desertion badge above his CIB.



None of this ribbon/badge stuff really matters because he won't be wearing anything on his civvies when they kick his sorry ass the fuck out or when they lock his sorry ass up and give him an orange jump suit.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 16, 2017)

Someone has a case of M. P. H.

Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl says it’s ‘insulting’ he is considered a traitor | American Military News


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 16, 2017)

The criteria for the CIB clearly state the award is for infantry types who serve "satisfactorily" in combat.  Desertion and misbehavior would seem like reasonable reasons for disqualification.

Moreover, combat badges are automatically revoked upon convictions for desertion.

Finally, commanders can, should, and do revoke all manner of awards, badges, and rank because of misconduct.

Upon conviction, SGT Bergdahl should receive a BCD, forfeit all pay he received while in captivity, be busted back to E1, and have his POW medal, CIB, and any other award/decoration he received for that deployment revoked.


----------



## AWP (Oct 16, 2017)

As long as his next HOR is Ft. Leavenworth, I could care less what he "keeps" on his old uniform.


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 16, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> The criteria for the CIB clearly state the award is for infantry types who serve "satisfactorily" in combat.  Desertion and misbehavior would seem like reasonable reasons for disqualification.
> 
> Moreover, combat badges are automatically revoked upon convictions for desertion.
> 
> ...



There you go. Take that shit then.


----------



## CDG (Oct 16, 2017)

I was in full agreement with TLDR at first.  I had completely forgotten about the sentence in the CIB regs about performing satisfactorily.  @Marauder06, you sir, have swayed me.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 16, 2017)

He has officially pled guilty.

Bergdahl pleads guilty to desertion, misbehavior


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 16, 2017)

CDG said:


> I was in full agreement with TLDR at first.  I had completely forgotten about the sentence in the CIB regs about performing satisfactorily.  @Marauder06, you sir, have swayed me.


Agreed. I was unaware of that.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 16, 2017)

Had he been awarded it in absentia?


----------



## trin (Oct 17, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I mean he earned his CIB earlier in that deployment. They were certainly in combat and he was an infantryman.


AR 600-8-22, Para 1-32.b.(1):

"Combat or special skill badge. An award of any combat or special skill badge will be *automatically revoked* on dismissal, dishonorable discharge, or conviction by courts-martial for desertion in wartime (wartime is defined in the glossary)."  [emphasis mine]


----------



## Gunz (Oct 17, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> He has officially pled guilty.
> 
> Bergdahl pleads guilty to desertion, misbehavior




Adios motherfucker.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 17, 2017)

So...he plead guilty but is seeking to have the case dismissed? wtf Bowe Bergdahl says Trump is preventing him from receiving a fair sentence


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 17, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...he plead guilty but is seeking to have the case dismissed? wtf Bowe Bergdahl says Trump is preventing him from receiving a fair sentence



LOL

The man just cannot help himself.

_Asked about the Bergdahl case Monday, Trump first said he wouldn't comment. Then he added: "But I think people have heard my comments in the past."_


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 18, 2017)

W


----------



## trin (Oct 18, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...he plead guilty but is seeking to have the case dismissed? wtf Bowe Bergdahl says Trump is preventing him from receiving a fair sentence


The boy is delusional.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Oct 18, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Well, Manning got a sex change and full pardon. Bergdhal had enough juice to warrant a huge exchange to "save" him.
> 
> He is betting that political correctness might still be in play for him.



Commutation of sentence is not full pardon.  Still a dishonorable discharge. Still a federal felon, just ended the prison time early.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 18, 2017)

Ranger Psych said:


> Commutation of sentence is not full pardon



He's right.  Commutation Instructions | PARDON | Department of Justice



> Under the current regulations governing petitions for executive clemency, a person may not apply for a full pardon until at least five years after his or her release from incarceration. Accordingly, the commutation form should be used only for the purpose of seeking a reduction of sentence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 18, 2017)

Why do I love the internet?  

Because people who "comment" on Facebook make it worthwhile....


----------



## Topkick (Oct 18, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why do I love the internet?
> 
> Because people who "comment" on Facebook make it worthwhile....
> 
> View attachment 20031



I couldn't bring myself to hit the like button. This is when I miss the hate option.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 18, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why do I love the internet?
> 
> Because people who "comment" on Facebook make it worthwhile....
> 
> View attachment 20031



The sad thing is all the people who are going to think it's real.  I mean, it's not even a good PhotoShop job.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 18, 2017)

I mean, they could have at least TRIED.  Like on this masterpiece of an article and photo:  




> Article 107 News





> has learned that in a quiet Rose Garden ceremony held in the waning days of his presidency, President Barack Obama officially recognized US Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl as America’s “Most Deployed Soldier.”  He also presented Bergdahl with long-overdue Purple Heart and Prisoner of War medals, and promoted the young noncommissioned officer to the rank of staff sergeant.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Oct 18, 2017)

[QUOT


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 18, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why do I love the internet?
> 
> Because people who "comment" on Facebook make it worthwhile....
> 
> View attachment 20031




The .gov really completes it more than a rug ever could.


----------



## Frank S. (Oct 18, 2017)

trin said:


> The boy is delusional.



Goodbye horses...


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 19, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I mean he earned his CIB earlier in that deployment. They were certainly in combat and he was an infantryman.



You have to serve honorably in direct combat with the enemy. Or did they change that too?


----------



## AWP (Oct 19, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> You have to serve honorably in direct combat with the enemy. Or did they change that too?



Through '05 you didn't. I know a number of guys with CIB's due to indirect fire. 20th Group put almost every 11B secondary holder (and 18 series even if they sat at a FOB and took IDF) in for the award in 2002. One of the Indiana infantry brigades did something similar except it ran an 11B MOS course in Afghanistan.

As for Bergdahl? I don't know his circumstances. I'm told the requirements for a CIB are much more stringent since the above running from 02 to 05, but some units decided the bling was more important than the meaning or intent. Promotion points for everyone!


----------



## TLDR20 (Oct 19, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> You have to serve honorably in direct combat with the enemy. Or did they change that too?



Like I said he initially served in direct combat with the Taliban. Earlier in the deployment, prior to the walkabout.

Either way after what Mara posted, take that shit.


----------



## CDG (Oct 23, 2017)

Bowe Berghdal apparently thinks coming home to the US was just as tough as captivity.  I don't necessarily agree with a President commenting openly on a case like this, even if I may agree with the comment content itself, and I hope ol' Bowe never sees the outside world again.  This piece of shit traitor can fuck right off.

Bowe Bergdahl says returning to U.S. was as tough as being a hostage


----------



## Gunz (Oct 23, 2017)

CDG said:


> Bowe Berghdal apparently thinks coming home to the US was just as tough as captivity.  I don't necessarily agree with a President commenting openly on a case like this, even if I may agree with the comment content itself, and I hope ol' Bowe never sees the outside world again.  This piece of shit traitor can fuck right off.
> 
> Bowe Bergdahl says returning to U.S. was as tough as being a hostage





From the above article: 

"...Bergdahl, now 31, walked off his remote post in Afghanistan in 2009* with the intention of reaching other commanders and drawing attention to what he saw as problems in his unit..."*


That's been his excuse except that he left a note saying he was bugging out to "start a new life." He was unassing the whole fucking program. The last place he wanted to go was an FOB 19 miles away to "report" to the commanding officer there about _problems in his unit_. 

If he'd actually reached that FOB--with that fucking story--he'd have been locked the fuck up.

This worthless motherfucker was planning either to walk to Pakistan or join the Talitubbies. His hatred for the Army and his own country is clearly evident in his email exchanges.


----------



## CDG (Oct 23, 2017)

Yeah, the whole, "I was walking to another FOB to report these horrible things" is such transparent bullshit.  It's like the crack junky that "just found that pipe."


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 23, 2017)

If he enjoyed captivity so much, I guess he wasn't really a prisoner...


----------



## Poccington (Oct 23, 2017)

CDG said:


> Bowe Berghdal apparently thinks coming home to the US was just as tough as captivity.  I don't necessarily agree with a President commenting openly on a case like this, even if I may agree with the comment content itself, and I hope ol' Bowe never sees the outside world again.  This piece of shit traitor can fuck right off.
> 
> Bowe Bergdahl says returning to U.S. was as tough as being a hostage



So when does he start at West Point?


----------



## Il Duce (Oct 23, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> From the above article:
> 
> "...Bergdahl, now 31, walked off his remote post in Afghanistan in 2009* with the intention of reaching other commanders and drawing attention to what he saw as problems in his unit..."*
> 
> ...



That seems like the most logical explanation to me as well - and I can understand how SSG Bergdahl's statements should be taken with a significant degree of optimism.

However, from what I have read the investigating officer found SSG Bergdahl's statement credible - he ultimately concluded SSG Bergdahl, however incorrectly and dipshitedly, actually left for the reasons stated.  Further, the IO recommended (if I am remembering correctly) that SSG Bergdahl had served his time for his mistakes by being in captivity for six years.  Whether you agree with him or not the IO has done a much more significant investigation than any internet sleuth on this case.  I think his views - and really the views of his team because no GO really does his own work - should not be dismissed out of hand.

I give two shits about SSG Bergdahl now that he's home.  I have much stronger opinions on the way he was brought back (negotiation) than his sentencing one way or the other.  I just think this thread, like the Las Vegas shooting thread, exposes something I wish we would do less of in America - treat everyone's opinion, because it's on the internet, as equal.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 23, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> give two shits about SSG Bergdahl now that he's home. I have much stronger opinions on the way he was brought back (negotiation) than his sentencing one way or the other.



Are you referring to the release of captives in trade?


----------



## Il Duce (Oct 23, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Are you referring to the release of captives in trade?



Yes, IMO that's the worst aspect of this case.  Soldiers will do stupid/terrible shit during a war - it happens, doesn't mean it's good, but I thought the response was the right one - go as hard as you can to find them.  Similarly, when a Soldier is captured we do everything we can to get them back - even if they're a shithead.  Finally, once they're back we have to evaluate the consequences for what they did/didn't do - UCMJ in this case.  All of those to me followed the right procedure - if not always to the best result or perfect execution.  For me, the thing that bothers me about this case is the trade of prisoners for a hostage.  If there was a nation or state to trade with that obeyed the Geneva convention and it was an exchange of POWs that would be one thing - but it wasn't.  It was essentially a shakedown by terrorists/criminals and only serves to legitimize them and those actions for the future - Iran has tried it more than once in Iraq.  In my opinion it was a strategic mistake that should not have been made.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 23, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Yes, IMO that's the worst aspect of this case. Soldiers will do stupid/terrible shit during a war - it happens, doesn't mean it's good, but I thought the response was the right one - go as hard as you can to find them. Similarly, when a Soldier is captured we do everything we can to get them back - even if they're a shithead. Finally, once they're back we have to evaluate the consequences for what they did/didn't do - UCMJ in this case. All of those to me followed the right procedure - if not always to the best result or perfect execution. For me, the thing that bothers me about this case is the trade of prisoners for a hostage. If there was a nation or state to trade with that obeyed the Geneva convention and it was an exchange of POWs that would be one thing - but it wasn't. It was essentially a shakedown by terrorists/criminals and only serves to legitimize them and those actions for the future - Iran has tried it more than once in Iraq. In my opinion it was a strategic mistake that should not have been made.



I agree completely. What makes it even worse to me is the thought that Bergdahl knowingly risked getting captured while putting his brothers at risk. Whether or not he defected, he chose to leave the security of his FOB and his unit. I would be empathetic (not necessarily in agreement) if we negotiated for a soldier who was captured by an enemy while performing his duties honorably.


----------



## Il Duce (Oct 23, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I agree completely. What makes it even worse to me is the thought that Bergdahl knowingly risked getting captured while putting his brothers at risk. Whether or not he defected, he chose to leave the security of his FOB and his unit. I would be empathetic (not necessarily in agreement) if we negotiated for a soldier who was captured by an enemy while performing his duties honorably.



To me they're separate issues - only because I worry about a slippery slope.  If it's in a command/government's interest to say someone fucked up so they can leave them out to dry.  Still, I think you have to draw the line somewhere - like that Marine in Iraq who deserted and showed up in Lebanon or some shit like a year later.  So, I agree with you - just feel like the pendulum should always swing towards rescue first, then evaluate UCMJ after.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 24, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> To me they're separate issues - only because I worry about a slippery slope. If it's in a command/government's interest to say someone fucked up so they can leave them out to dry. Still, I think you have to draw the line somewhere - like that Marine in Iraq who deserted and showed up in Lebanon or some shit like a year later. So, I agree with you - just feel like the pendulum should always swing towards rescue first, then evaluate UCMJ after.



In regards to UCMJ, I don't buy the idea that the presidents remarks will really play a part in his sentencing. I think the judge, an Army Colonel, has to and will make a fair decision. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I trust a full bird to make the right call. However, somebody's going to say Trump had an influence. I really wish Trump hadn't ranted so much on this one.


----------



## Il Duce (Oct 25, 2017)

Topkick said:


> In regards to UCMJ, I don't buy the idea that the presidents remarks will really play a part in his sentencing. I think the judge, an Army Colonel, has to and will make a fair decision. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I trust a full bird to make the right call. However, somebody's going to say Trump had an influence. I really wish Trump hadn't ranted so much on this one.



That's the same way I've felt whenever this comes up - similar to when President Obama talked about getting rid of people in the force who sexually harass or assault.  I agree with the sentiment and think it won't end up being undue command influence - but it's one of the reasons POTUS needs to be judicious with language where possible.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 25, 2017)

Update as of today...

_As the hearing got underway, an Army judge said he was still considering a motion by the defense to dismiss the case. The defense has argued that President Trump's comments about Bergdahl prevent him from having a fair sentencing hearing._

Huh.  Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass.

Bowe Bergdahl sentencing: Ex-Navy SEAL recalls military dog's death during search


----------



## Gunz (Oct 25, 2017)

All the politicians who spoke out about this, or at least assumed some kind of public posture about it, needed to STFU. I include Trump, Obama, Kerry and Mrs Clinton.

5 to 1 odds he walks because of Trump's remarks. Ok, maybe 3 to 1.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 25, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> 5 to 1 odds he walks because of Trump's remarks. Ok, maybe 3 to 1.



And former President Obama would giggle his ass off....who could blame him?


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 25, 2017)

I was not aware of K9 Remco's death in the search for Bergdahl.

Open Fields Remco....


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 25, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> I was not aware of K9 Remco's death in the search for Bergdahl.
> 
> Open Fields Remco....



This alone should warrant life in a deep dark hole, at the least. I'd prefer ancient torture devices myself. Don't fuck with dogs.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 1, 2017)

*Update*

Judge Will Not Limit Bergdahl's Sentence Over Trump's 'Traitor' Comments

“I am the sole sentencing authority in this case,” Nance said on the third day of Bergdahl’s sentence hearing at Fort Bragg. “I am completely unaffected by any opinions President Trump may have about Sgt. Bergdahl.”


----------



## pardus (Nov 2, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *Update*
> 
> Judge Will Not Limit Bergdahl's Sentence Over Trump's 'Traitor' Comments
> 
> “I am the sole sentencing authority in this case,” Nance said on the third day of Bergdahl’s sentence hearing at Fort Bragg. “I am completely unaffected by any opinions President Trump may have about Sgt. Bergdahl.”



Great news, however, I imagine that this would still be grounds for appeal though.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 2, 2017)

pardus said:


> Great news, however, I imagine that this would still be grounds for appeal though.


Depends on the final sentence, do you risk a harsher sentence by appealing?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 2, 2017)

He admitted guilt.  What grounds does he have to appeal?  I'm no JAG, but the regular lawyer in my house says he's high as a kite.


----------



## pardus (Nov 2, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Depends on the final sentence, do you risk a harsher sentence by appealing?



Good point.



ThunderHorse said:


> He admitted guilt.  What grounds does he have to appeal?  I'm no JAG, but the regular lawyer in my house says he's high as a kite.



Well even if the judge says, "I'm not influenced" I'm sure a lawyer could argue that.  Ive seen dumber shit happen. 
Whether it does is a whole other matter of course, I was just wondering aloud.


----------



## Poccington (Nov 3, 2017)

Judge rules Bergdahl should serve no prison time

Dishonourable discharge but no jail time. Madness.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 3, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am the sole sentencing authority in this case,” Nance said on the third day of Bergdahl’s sentence hearing at Fort Bragg. “*I am completely unaffected by any opinions President Trump may have about Sgt. Bergdahl.”*


Well...that seems to be the understatement of the year.


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## jackmick (Nov 3, 2017)

Disappointing to say the least.


----------



## AWP (Nov 3, 2017)

Poccington said:


> Judge rules Bergdahl should serve no prison time
> 
> Dishonourable discharge but no jail time. Madness.



My country doesn't deserve nice things. What he's done, what he caused, and no jail time?

Bullshit.


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## Muppet (Nov 3, 2017)

Fucking nonsense. Almost as bad as the system outside of the military.

M.


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## 8482farm (Nov 3, 2017)

It's mad that he won't be serving any jail time. But what will his quality of life be in the U.S. if he chooses to stay here with a dishonorable discharge? My bet is that he'll right a fucking book about it which will turn into some sympathetic ass movie in which he'll live a comfortable life off the royalties.


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## RackMaster (Nov 3, 2017)

8482farm said:


> It's mad that he won't be serving any jail time. But what will his quality of life be in the U.S. if he chooses to stay here with a dishonorable discharge? My bet is that he'll right a fucking book about it which will turn into some sympathetic ass movie in which he'll live a comfortable life off the royalties.



Where can he go? He can't come to Canada, he's a convict now; same reason we turned Manning away.


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## Kraut783 (Nov 3, 2017)

what an injustice.....now he is free to write his book about his time in captivity and make money


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## Topkick (Nov 3, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> what an injustice.....now he is free to write his book about his time in captivity and make money



What bothers me most is the example this sets for any soldier contemplating desertion or going AWOL in the future. It ain't just about poor little Bowe.


----------



## CDG (Nov 3, 2017)

8482farm said:


> It's mad that he won't be serving any jail time. But what will his quality of life be in the U.S. if he chooses to stay here with a dishonorable discharge? My bet is that he'll right a fucking book about it which will turn into some sympathetic ass movie in which he'll live a comfortable life off the royalties.



Agreed.  He will write a book, there will be a movie painting him as a morally conflicted super warrior who makes the hard choice, etc, etc. He will probably pop up on speaking tours, magazine covers, and who knows what else.


----------



## J. (Nov 3, 2017)

This undermines the authority of the entire UCMJ, if we won’t punish someone who admits guilt of desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, someone who put countless live in danger, who caused injury to those searching for him and who’s rescue resulted in putting terrorists back into the world...then what is there to respect. What happened to setting the example so that it never happens again. This is beyond disappointing, and it’s an embarrassing day for the Armed Services.


----------



## Topkick (Nov 3, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> That's the same way I've felt whenever this comes up - similar to when President Obama talked about getting rid of people in the force who sexually harass or assault.  I agree with the sentiment and think it won't end up being undue command influence - but it's one of the reasons POTUS needs to be judicious with language where possible.



I want to believe that Trump's comments about Bergdahl didn't play a part in the light sentencing but it probably did. Either way, the judge will probably be scrutinized by the public.


----------



## jackmick (Nov 3, 2017)

8482farm said:


> It's mad that he won't be serving any jail time. But what will his quality of life be in the U.S. if he chooses to stay here with a dishonorable discharge? My bet is that he'll right a fucking book about it which will turn into some sympathetic ass movie in which he'll live a comfortable life off the royalties.


Unfortunately he'll probably be able to live a somewhat normal life once regular people forget about this, unless he somehow makes himself look like a celebrity with a book/movie. I sadly can't imagine that the general populous (especially my generation) will be angry enough to actually care about who he is or what he did. I'm sure he'll get recognized and socially/physically chastised for the rest of his life, but will that frequency be enough to really bother him, especially in 20-30 years? He did decide to go introduce himself to the Taliban after all.


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## RackMaster (Nov 3, 2017)

Him and Manning should get married; they'll get their own show on TLC or similar.


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## Topkick (Nov 3, 2017)

RackMaster said:


> Him and Manning should get married; they'll get their own show on TLC or similar.



How would that go? Chelsea Bergdahl...or Bowe Manning? If they Change their names they won't be as famous.


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## 8482farm (Nov 3, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I want to believe that Trump's comments about Bergdahl didn't play a part in the light sentencing but it probably did. Either way, the judge will probably be scrutinized by the public.



We'll probably see a presidential tweet about it. I feel like with all the "weigh-in's" from POTUS and officials about this case and the severity of what happened the judge was probably between a rock and a hard place. If the punishment was severe there might have been grounds for Unlawful Command Influence Appeal. If the punishment is too light, like it is now, the judge will be scrutinize. Only good thing about this is he's now a convicted felon and received a dishonorable discharge. But Hollywood doesn't discriminate against felons.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 3, 2017)




----------



## Blizzard (Nov 3, 2017)




----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 3, 2017)

The millions in book deals and speaking engagements will take the sting out of his CIB getting revoked.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 3, 2017)

.


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## AWP (Nov 3, 2017)

A little piece of America and its military died today.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 4, 2017)

Should have been shot.  The minimum should have been five years confinement.


----------



## DasBoot (Nov 4, 2017)

If abandoning your brothers, exposing them to danger and ridiculing them after your release only earns you a dishonorable, I better not hear about another dude getting chaptered for snorting a few lines, hitting a blunt or getting pulled over for a “DUI- less safe” after this.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 4, 2017)

.


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## DA SWO (Nov 4, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> Should have been shot.  The minimum should have been five years confinement.


My guess is the Judge essentially considered his 5 years with the Taliban as "time served".
I disagree, and am disappointed,


----------



## racing_kitty (Nov 4, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> My guess is the Judge essentially considered his 5 years with the Taliban as "time served".
> I disagree, and am disappointed,



Or he wanted to make the ultimate statement that POTUS’s words would have zero effect on his judgment.


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## Muppet (Nov 4, 2017)

God damned sad that the military judicial system is just as crooked as the civilian world. 

M.


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## Topkick (Nov 4, 2017)

Muppet said:


> God damned sad that the military judicial system is just as crooked as the civilian world.



Politics should never play a part, but I think it did in this case. I cant be sure ,and hoped it wouldn't, but it appears the Judge felt like he had to impose a sentence which would clearly separate him from Trump's comments. IMO, its cowardice to allow the thought of what others think to sway your decision from right to wrong. I understand the Judge was between a rock and a hard place, but now I am not sure how he can look in a mirror.


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## CDG (Nov 4, 2017)

Just another example of President Trump spouting off before thinking through the ramifications of what he's about to say.  I am disappointed in the verdict, and I am disappointed that it very well may have turned out differently if the Commander in Chief had maintained a bit more professionalism.


----------



## Grunt (Nov 5, 2017)

Agoge said:


> We will see how serious they are about his crimes once they give him his sentence!



Well...I guess we know now....


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 5, 2017)

?


----------



## AWP (Nov 5, 2017)

Is this Trump's fault though? I have no idea but it seems premature to blame this on his comments unless someone has a source. Sometimes you just have a shitty human being who sidelines as a judge.....


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 5, 2017)

?


----------



## Bob Westermann (Nov 5, 2017)

Once he was rescued, his mental state was so f***** he couldn’t be in a room with a clock.

That still sticks with me


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## Il Duce (Nov 6, 2017)

I've thought about this one a lot and I think I land in disagreement with most of the forum.  Bergdahl was a stupid Soldier who did something stupid with terrible consequences for everyone involved - including himself.  But did so without malice or intent, and paid five years of his life as a prisoner to the Taliban - that's hard time by anyone's measure.

I'm not sure what I would have done in the judge's place but, I think his verdict was in the realm of justice.  I don't think the judge or Bergdahl deserve to be pilloried like a Manning or a Calley.  I don't think what Bergdahl did or the sentence he deserved was commensurate with theirs - and he served a much harsher punishment.

Just my opinion, I see where others are coming from - just not the way I see it.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> I've thought about this one a lot and I think I land in disagreement with most of the forum.  Bergdahl was a stupid Soldier who did something stupid with terrible consequences for everyone involved - including himself.  But did so without malice or intent, and paid five years of his life as a prisoner to the Taliban - that's hard time by anyone's measure.
> 
> I'm not sure what I would have done in the judge's place but, I think his verdict was in the realm of justice.  I don't think the judge or Bergdahl deserve to be pilloried like a Manning or a Calley.  I don't think what Bergdahl did or the sentence he deserved was commensurate with theirs - and he served a much harsher punishment.
> 
> Just my opinion, I see where others are coming from - just not the way I see it.



I agree with you.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> and paid five years of his life as a prisoner to the Taliban -



I think there is a lot to be said for this, and I also have long believed that part of the Bergdahl feeding frenzy had to do with:
- President Obama traded 5 “badguys” to get him back
- President Obama paraded Bergdahl’s parents out expecting ... what exactly?  Well that backfired - especially once dad opened his yap and folks tracked down his Twitter Page. 
- Bergdahl is rather feminine looking 
- Bergdahl claimed he was trying to get to another unit to report “whatever”. Well in Merica, we like to think our military is near perfect and are not really interested in rabble-rousers who claim otherwise. 
- Members of the military died and were injured as part of the search.  

In the end I strongly believe that he needed to come home. You cannot really “know” the circumstances of his disappearance until he is free, and “what if” he was captured when he went to take a leak, or wandered too far and got complacent?  You cannot knowingly leave a soldier as a POW.  As a student of Vietnam, that’s a sensitive one for me. I’m still not convinced that there was not more that could have been done for our Nam POW’s. 

To add - i still think the judge was wrong. And sent the wrong message. He could have said “stuff” and ended with the fact that Bergdahl still owes a debt to America and that will cost him 1 year in prison.


----------



## 8482farm (Nov 6, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> - Bergdahl is rather feminine looking



Could you elaborate more on this please? I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you. Would like more insight on whether you mean physically or due to his actions/behavior.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 6, 2017)

8482farm said:


> Could you elaborate more on this please? I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you. Would like more insight on whether you mean physically or due to his actions/behavior.



In my opinion, he looks (in appearance and mannerisms) rather effeminate.


----------



## Topkick (Nov 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> I've thought about this one a lot and I think I land in disagreement with most of the forum.  Bergdahl was a stupid Soldier who did something stupid with terrible consequences for everyone involved - including himself.  But did so without malice or intent, and paid five years of his life as a prisoner to the Taliban - that's hard time by anyone's measure.
> 
> I'm not sure what I would have done in the judge's place but, I think his verdict was in the realm of justice.  I don't think the judge or Bergdahl deserve to be pilloried like a Manning or a Calley.  I don't think what Bergdahl did or the sentence he deserved was commensurate with theirs - and he served a much harsher punishment.
> 
> Just my opinion, I see where others are coming from - just not the way I see it.



See where you are coming from here but I still think it sets a new standard. I agree with Ooh-Rah that some prison time would have been appropriate here.  Also, I think its a little "soft" to say he was just stupid. Apparently, his past performance had shown otherwise. He did make a stupid decision but he was not a young and dumb soldier. I believe he understood the repercussions. Someone said it, but soldiers get dishonorable discharges for a lot less harmful offenses in garrison.


----------



## Il Duce (Nov 6, 2017)

Topkick said:


> See where you are coming from here but I still think it sets a new standard. I agree with Ooh-Rah that some prison time would have been appropriate here.  Also, I think its a little "soft" to say he was just stupid. Apparently, his past performance had shown otherwise. He did make a stupid decision but he was not a young and dumb soldier. I believe he understood the repercussions. Someone said it, but soldiers get dishonorable discharges for a lot less harmful offenses in garrison.



Soldiers definitely get punished for far less - but leaders sometimes get off for significant offenses as well, GOs abusing subordinates, lying, etc. and retiring with benefits as a COL (I'm thinking Sinclair but I'm sure there are other examples).  Shit like Abu Ghraib where the Soldiers were fried and leaders walked away - that shit had a ton of operational and strategic consequence that got people killed.

Again, I think it comes down to opinion and how you weight things/perspective.  I'm not saying mine is correct - I can just see how the judge could have come to his decision without being a traitor, accomplice, etc.


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Nov 6, 2017)

.


----------



## Gunz (Nov 6, 2017)

Lucky bastard. He's free. He'll find plenty of sympathy by just hanging with the right crowd.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 6, 2017)

Desertion in War Time carries the maximum penalty of death...the Authority presiding just created a new minimum.  Bergdahl needed to sacrifice portions of his life for those he got killed.  What some are saying is that it's okay because he hung out with the Taliban for five years.  This guy is a scumbag and you should have no sympathy for him at all.

Every time you degrade a standard, you've set a new standard.


----------



## 8482farm (Nov 6, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> Desertion in War Time carries the maximum penalty of death...the Authority presiding just created a new minimum.  Bergdahl needed to sacrifice portions of his life for those he got killed.  What some are saying is that it's okay because he hung out with the Taliban for five years.  This guy is a scumbag and you should have no sympathy for him at all.
> 
> Every time you degrade a standard, you've set a new standard.



I agree with you. But technically, we're not in a state of war.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 6, 2017)

8482farm said:


> I agree with you. But technically, we're not in a state of war.



We are in a state a war with multiple countries.  If you're arguing that Congress has not formally declared war, roger; but that doesn't make a difference in the misbehavior charge in the UCMJ, which specifies "the enemy" irrespective of the status of the conflict:  What is an Article 99 Violation of the UCMJ


----------



## Salt USMC (Nov 6, 2017)

Topkick said:


> He did make a stupid decision but he was not a young and dumb soldier. I believe he understood the repercussions. Someone said it, but soldiers get dishonorable discharges for a lot less harmful offenses in garrison.


Having listened to the ten-part podcast series about this very topic, I really think that Bergdahl was an incredibly naiive and sheltered young man.  When you hear about the writings in his journals, its clear that he thought of himself in grand, Homer-esque terms.  He thought that Afghanistan was going to be his Odyssey, when really it was more like his Ulysses.  I don't think he had a very good grasp of the repercussions until he got caught.

Give it the series a listen sometime, it's very enlightening: Season Two


----------



## AWP (Nov 6, 2017)

Salt USMC said:


> I really think that Bergdahl was an incredibly naiive and sheltered young man.  When you hear about the writings in his journals, its clear that he thought of himself in grand, Homer-esque terms.  He thought that Afghanistan was going to be his Odyssey, when really it was more like his Ulysses.  I don't think he had a very good grasp of the repercussions until he got caught.



He's still guilty of desertion and his grandiose dreams and visions are irrelevant. He knew right from wrong and chose to act regardless. I sincerely hope he dies of hemorrhagic dick cancer of the mouth.


----------



## CDG (Nov 6, 2017)

Who cares how he viewed himself?  You join the military, you play by the rules.  He broke a huge one, and I could care less what idiotic dreams of grandeur he had in doing so.  He got people injured and killed, and he deserves more punishment. 5 years with the TB is a direct result of his actions, and is not a legal sentence.  I thinks it's bullshit to consider it time served.


----------



## Totentanz (Nov 6, 2017)

CDG said:


> Who cares how he viewed himself?  You join the military, you play by the rules.  He broke a huge one, and I could care less what idiotic dreams of grandeur he had in doing so.  He got people injured and killed, and he deserves more punishment. 5 years with the TB is a direct result of his actions, and is not a legal sentence.  I thinks it's bullshit to consider it time served.



I think it's worth taking into consideration as a consequence of his actions.  It should not, however, supplant his punishment by the DoD for his self-admitted criminal act.

FWIW, while I don't think it absolves him of anything, the Serial podcast is worth a listen.


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## Salt USMC (Nov 6, 2017)

Oh don't get me wrong - I'm not excusing his actions whatsoever.  Maybe I'm being a bit of an apologist but I think it's important to establish intent when judging these events.  Even if you're not judging them in a strictly legal sense, I think history requires it.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 6, 2017)

Yeah fuck that guy.

However he was a stupid kid with no intent. He is going to be dishonorably discharged. That is not as common as some here have implied. DUI’s don’t garner dishonorable’s, they get bad conducts, or other than honorable. Dishonorable’s are treated the same as a felony conviction in many states. 

A pretty basic search shows how rare a dishonorable discharge really is, with less than a couple hundred out of hundreds of thousands of discharges. Many of those were felony convictions, with previous time served...


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## Marauder06 (Nov 7, 2017)

Salt USMC said:


> Oh don't get me wrong - I'm not excusing his actions whatsoever.  Maybe I'm being a bit of an apologist but I think it's important to establish intent when judging these events.  Even if you're not judging them in a strictly legal sense, I think history requires it.



Upon what are we judging his intent, other than on statements made by the defense?  He claims he wanted to 'report bad behavior," what behavior was it, exactly?  Has any of this alleged malfeasance been confirmed?  If he wasn't deserting, why was he making statements like "I am sorry for everything. The horror that is America is disgusting" in letters to his father?

Why, on the night that he deserted, did he leave a note behind saying "he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life?"  Why did he mail all of his stuff home before he walked away?

Asking because I don't know, not because I'm challenging.  But it seems that this "reporting bad behavior" thing is smoke and mirrors from the defense.  In light of the other evidence, I don't believe it for a second.


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## Il Duce (Nov 7, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Upon what are we judging his intent, other than on statements made by the defense?  He claims he wanted to 'report bad behavior," what behavior was it, exactly?  Has any of this alleged malfeasance been confirmed?  If he wasn't deserting, why was he making statements like "I am sorry for everything. The horror that is America is disgusting" in letters to his father?
> 
> Why, on the night that he deserted, did he leave a note behind saying "he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life?"  Why did he mail all of his stuff home before he walked away?
> 
> Asking because I don't know, not because I'm challenging.  But it seems that this "reporting bad behavior" thing is smoke and mirrors from the defense.  In light of the other evidence, I don't believe it for a second.



If only there was some human with specialized training and experience who could hear every aspect of this evidence from the prosecution and defense - yet still bound them within the legal system - and come to a judgment on these sorts of things.  A decisioner?  The decidicist? That doesn't sound right...


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## Marauder06 (Nov 7, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> If only there was some human with specialized training and experience who could hear every aspect of this evidence from the prosecution and defense - yet still bound them within the legal system - and come to a judgment on these sorts of things.  A decisioner?  The decidicist? That doesn't sound right...



I see what you did there.  

The thing is though, AFAIK the mitigating factor considered by the judge wasn't the defense's argument about Bergdahl's rationale, it was the negative command influence of the commander in chief.


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## Il Duce (Nov 7, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> The thing is though, AFAIK the mitigating factor considered by the judge wasn't the defense's argument about Bergdahl's rationale, it was the negative command influence of the commander in chief.



Yeah, that's what I think is tough about POTUS comments - this one and the last - how do you ascertain the degree of influence their comments have, intentionally or unintentionally?  As @AWP said I think it's tough to know the degree of influence President Trump's comments may have had and we'll likely never know unless the judge (decicisizer to you) writes an uncommonly honest memoir.  To me it's one of the strongest arguments for why POTUS' need to have some self-discipline on that stuff.

But, I think it goes to even wider stuff.  I feel like I routinely hear - on this forum and other places - how President Trump or President Obama caused all these things that are multiple degrees of decision and action away from them - i.e. stock market, MOAB drop, consumer confidence, military success, military defeat, kneeling players, sexual assault internet lynch mobs, etc.  Some have stronger arguments for correlation than others but regardless it's still difficult (at least to me) to be able to say the degree of blame or influence POTUS should bear.

I think it's plausible to the judge would have come to this decision without POTUS' comments.  But I also think whether he was influenced or not he'll never admit - maybe not even to himself.


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## AWP (Nov 7, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Yeah, that's what I think is tough about POTUS comments - this one and the last - how do you ascertain the degree of influence their comments have, intentionally or unintentionally?  As @AWP said I think it's tough to know the degree of influence President Trump's comments may have had and we'll likely never know unless the judge (decicisizer to you) writes an uncommonly honest memoir.  To me it's one of the strongest arguments for why POTUS' need to have some self-discipline on that stuff.



I'm somewhat onboard with the "judge was concerned about backlash due to the president's comments" argument. I'll step through that for a moment. Let's say he is genuinely concerned, he still screwed up. I don't know if the current sentence can be appealed, but convict the guy, levy jail time, and then allow the appeals process to work. I think the judge ran scared and virtually eliminated the chance for justice. It sends a horrible message to our service members and the lives Bergdahl changed forever.


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## Teufel (Nov 7, 2017)




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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> View attachment 20209



Game. 
Set. 
Match. 

Fucking brilliant, sir.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 7, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Yeah, that's what I think is tough about POTUS comments - this one and the last - how do you ascertain the degree of influence their comments have, intentionally or unintentionally?  As @AWP said I think it's tough to know the degree of influence President Trump's comments may have had and we'll likely never know unless the judge (decicisizer to you) writes an uncommonly honest memoir.  To me it's one of the strongest arguments for why POTUS' need to have some self-discipline on that stuff.
> 
> But, I think it goes to even wider stuff.  I feel like I routinely hear - on this forum and other places - how President Trump or President Obama caused all these things that are multiple degrees of decision and action away from them - i.e. stock market, MOAB drop, consumer confidence, military success, military defeat, kneeling players, sexual assault internet lynch mobs, etc.  Some have stronger arguments for correlation than others but regardless it's still difficult (at least to me) to be able to say the degree of blame or influence POTUS should bear.
> 
> I think it's plausible to the judge would have come to this decision without POTUS' comments.  But I also think whether he was influenced or not he'll never admit - maybe not even to himself.



I don't understand this


Il Duce said:


> Yeah, that's what I think is tough about POTUS comments - this one and the last - how do you ascertain the degree of influence their comments have, intentionally or unintentionally?  As @AWP said I think it's tough to know the degree of influence President Trump's comments may have had and we'll likely never know unless the judge (decicisizer to you) writes an uncommonly honest memoir.  To me it's one of the strongest arguments for why POTUS' need to have some self-discipline on that stuff.
> 
> But, I think it goes to even wider stuff.  I feel like I routinely hear - on this forum and other places - how President Trump or President Obama caused all these things that are multiple degrees of decision and action away from them - i.e. stock market, MOAB drop, consumer confidence, military success, military defeat, kneeling players, sexual assault internet lynch mobs, etc.  Some have stronger arguments for correlation than others but regardless it's still difficult (at least to me) to be able to say the degree of blame or influence POTUS should bear.
> 
> I think it's plausible to the judge would have come to this decision without POTUS' comments.  But I also think whether he was influenced or not he'll never admit - maybe not even to himself.



I don't understand this argument, brother.  The jury decides guilt and the judge imposes punishment, right?  If the defense pleads guilty, and the evidence is overwhelming in this case, and the judge (who refuses to bow to the President's pressure) decides the punishment, then isn't the whole negative influence issue moot?  The judge seems to be making this case about the President and not the defendant.


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## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2017)

Judges should be able to put aside personal opinion, ignore outside influence and follow the rule of law. No matter what the Commander in Chief expressed as their own personal view. Precedence has already been set. 

Let's look at another traitors trial affected by command influence. 

Did Obama taint WikiLeaks suspect's right to fair trial?

Or how about influencing a whole group of trials. 

Judge: Obama sex assault comments 'unlawful command influence'


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2017)

Any idiot in uniform knows the consequences of going over the hill...and especially desertion in time of warfare. Any slavering, knuckle-dragging, crayon-eating, ass-scratching syphilitic swinging dick out there should know.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 8, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't understand this
> 
> 
> I don't understand this argument, brother.  The jury decides guilt and the judge imposes punishment, right?  If the defense pleads guilty, and the evidence is overwhelming in this case, and the judge (who refuses to bow to the President's pressure) decides the punishment, then isn't the whole negative influence issue moot?  The judge seems to be making this case about the President and not the defendant.



Bergdahl opted for a Bench Trial because he felt he'd be declared guilty easy.  Well he then declared guilt, but somehow serves zero time because this O-6 is apparently a dunce.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 8, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Any idiot in uniform knows the consequences of going over the hill...and especially desertion in time of warfare. Any slavering, knuckle-dragging, crayon-eating, ass-scratching syphilitic swinging dick out there, knows the deal.



Hate cause...I felt inspired!  LOL


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hate cause...I felt inspired!  LOL




Well, Young Sir, (LOL) it came across as a "disagree" so your attempt at "Hate" failed. And where the hell did you get a "disagree" function? And where's mine?

And BTW, I've seen your "Pirate Picture"...so let's not go there.


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## Frank S. (Nov 8, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Well, Young Sir, (LOL)



Is that like giving the Navel Salute?


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 8, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> And BTW, I've seen your "Pirate Picture"...so let's not go there



Fucking Facebook!  LOL


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2017)

Frank S. said:


> Is that like giving the Navel Salute?



It has a voice of it's own.


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Fucking Facebook!  LOL



Failed hate again. All I got was an ANGRY face that says ANGRY.


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## Frank S. (Nov 8, 2017)

I'm having trouble figuring this shit. The like and dislike or even hate. Damn!


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2017)

Frank S. said:


> I'm having trouble figuring this shit. The like and dislike or even hate. Damn!



LIKE
AGREE


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## Frank S. (Nov 8, 2017)

Don't yell at me. I might surrender.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2017)

...I feel so let down by the lack of any prison time, somehow I just don't care anymore.

Army to decide if Bergdahl is entitled to $300G back pay

_The U.S. Army is set to decide whether Pvt. Bowe Bergdahl is entitled to as much as $300,000 in back pay and other benefits he amassed during his captivity with the Taliban.

Bergdahl, 31, was captured by the Taliban in 2009 after he walked off base while in Afghanistan. He was given a dishonorable discharge and he was demoted from sergeant to private in a court decision earlier this month but spared prison.  President Trump called the ruling a “complete and total disgrace.”

Captive soldiers normally receive special compensation worth around $150,000 in addition to hostile-fire pay and their basic pay they accumulated during the captivity. But determining whether Bergdahl should receive the back pay is not as clear-cut._


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## Gunz (Nov 9, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...I feel so let down by the lack of any prison time, somehow I just don't care anymore.
> 
> Army to decide if Bergdahl is entitled to $300G back pay
> 
> ...




You don't hand a guy a DD one day and $300-grand the next. He forfeited any pay when he unassed the perimeter. But with this case, who knows what strange turns it may take.


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## Topkick (Nov 9, 2017)

300k may be pocket change for him after his book and movie deals.


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## AWP (Nov 9, 2017)

Topkick said:


> 300k may be pocket change for him after his book and movie deals.



Even if we had a Hate feature I wouldn't hate your post....but I hate it because it is within the realm of possibility.


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## Topkick (Nov 9, 2017)

Book and movie..I've thought about this and pondered whether or not there would be an audience. Yep. Civilians will be curious.


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## BloodStripe (Nov 9, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Book and movie..I've thought about this and pondered whether or not there would be an audience. Yep. Civilians will be curious.



Directed by Oliver Stone


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2017)

Topkick said:


> Yep. Civilians will be curious.



And sympathetic after it gets a Hollywood spin.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 9, 2017)

W


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## Frank S. (Nov 9, 2017)

John Wayne Bobbitt. Directed by Quentin Tarantino.


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## Topkick (Nov 9, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Who will be cast as Bowe?



Matt Damon. The government always comes to his rescue👍

ETA  Rescuing Matt Damon's Characters Has Cost More Than $900 Billion


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## Gunz (Nov 9, 2017)

First he'll get an agent. Ari Gold.


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## CDG (Nov 9, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Who will be cast as Bowe?



Sean Penn


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## pardus (Nov 9, 2017)

This thread makes me hate the world just a little bit more...


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## Poccington (Nov 9, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Who will be cast as Bowe?



Lena Dunham.


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## pardus (Nov 9, 2017)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Who will be cast as Bowe?



Chelsea Manning...


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 9, 2017)




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## BloodStripe (Nov 9, 2017)

Chelsea Handler will play Bradley Manning and Amy Schumer will play his defense team.


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## 8482farm (Nov 10, 2017)

Chelsea Manning Best Supporting Actress


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## Marauder06 (Jun 6, 2018)

sentence confirmed:  dishonorable plus fine, but no jail time.

The Bergdahl Sentence Is In, And You're Not Going To Like It • The Havok Journal


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## Topkick (Jun 6, 2018)

At the very least, I don't think he should be allowed to profit one bit from his story. I personally think he should be stripped of his CIB too. He has to live with himself, so I don't really care if goes to jail except that it sets a new standard for future defectors.


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## J. (Jun 6, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> sentence confirmed:  dishonorable plus fine, but no jail time.
> 
> The Bergdahl Sentence Is In, And You're Not Going To Like It • The Havok Journal



Hate only because I’ve seen Marines with lesser infractions get hit harder than this. Now they’re out and get nothing from their time in but this guy is guaranteed to make money off his “woe is me” tale. Just awful.


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## compforce (Jun 6, 2018)

compforce said:


> Which puts him right back where he should have been in the first place unless they also take away his E-5 due to the AWOL.  In which case he leaves as an E-1 or E-2 which is preferable to me (in the case of a plea deal).  I really think he should get a BCD, no back pay and reduction to E-1.  No POW honors as well.





compforce said:


> The political climate will not allow a true desertion punishment (sic).  Plea to AWOL, can't be promoted while AWOL which nullifies E-5 and puts him back at E-3.  Can't get pay while AWOL so no back pay.  Court martial with reduction in rank to E-1 and BCD rounds it out.



All I want now is a picture of his face when they tell him that, yes you only got fined $12,000, but you also have to pay back the difference from E-5 pay to E-1 that you received as back pay as the date of the offense was as an E-3 and the reduction in rank to E-1 is effective on the day of the offense, not the judgement.


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## AWP (Jun 6, 2018)

If we're lucky, Bowe and George Zimmerman will bump into each other.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 18, 2019)

- Update -

Army rejects Bowe Bergdahl's claim Trump unfairly influenced his case


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## Gunz (Jul 19, 2019)

I'm surprised one of the three judges sided with Bergdahl. That judge should be tossed from a plane without a parachute.😁


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## DA SWO (Jul 19, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> - Update -
> 
> Army rejects Bowe Bergdahl's claim Trump unfairly influenced his case


Guilty plea kind of make any appeal moot.


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## AWP (Jul 19, 2019)

This trash is still alive?


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 6, 2019)

Oh, joy: Top military appeals court to review Bergdahl case for interference by Trump and McCain



> The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces has granted former Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl a review of his case to determine whether its outcome was affected by comments made by President Donald Trump or other alleged examples of unlawful command influence.
> 
> The court announced Nov. 4 that it will consider Bergdahl’s request for his sentence to be dismissed or other relief granted based on unlawful command influence. In July, the Army Court of Criminal Appeals upheld Bergdahl’s guilty plea and sentence, saying that comments made by Trump after he became president about Bergdahl, as well as those made by Sen. John McCain, did not sway the outcome of the proceedings.


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## Grunt (Nov 6, 2019)

Some people simply can't be happy with the gift they have been given. This clown is an example of that. But hey, his attorney's are getting on the "Attack POTUS" bandwagon and earning their pay. Yippy Ki Yay....


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 6, 2019)

Vagabond said:


> Yippy Ki Yay....





Spoiler


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## pardus (Nov 6, 2019)

When is this cunt just going to die?


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## AWP (Nov 6, 2019)

pardus said:


> When is this cunt just going to die?



He's already years too late.


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## pardus (Nov 6, 2019)

AWP said:


> He's already years too late.



Indeed!


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## GOTWA (Nov 7, 2019)

pardus said:


> When is this cunt just going to die?


He doesn't have any dirt on high ranking political figures, or the Clinton's, so it's not like he's going to hang himself anytime soon.


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