# Greatest Threats



## Havoc13 (Jan 15, 2014)

ShadowSpear Friends-

One of my coworkers and I were discussing what constitutes the "greatest threats" to the US.  

If you links to any articles that outline "greatest threats," I'd like to read them.

If you have any thoughts personally on what those threats are, I'd like to hear them.  

Interpret "threat" however you want to.

Some of mine:

-cyber
-climate change
-narco terrorism
-the budget


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## Blizzard (Jan 15, 2014)

Off the top of my head, threats to US, in no particular order:

*Education* - both internally (within our borders) and externally (outside our borders); lack of education allows extremism to thrive.  Lack of critical thought is a killer
*Entitlement *- our society has become too dependent upon others to provide for us, we've come to view opportunities and priviliges as rights with little to no critical thought as to the impact.  Simply put, as a society we're lazy (and not only in the physical sense).  We need a spirit of self reliance.
*Production* - we're not the producers we once were.  Instead we're becoming a service driven nation.   We need to regain/foster that entrepreneurial spirit again and become a nation of producers/manufacturers.  Success is something to be proud of and celebrated.
*Cyber* - current and future wars are being waged here right now; with greater dependency on technology comes greater risk, even from the smallest of threats (ie Snowden, Assange, etc.).  At the same time it impacts the ability of private business to innovate.  Information and innovation is shared more quickly.  As a result, the lifecycle of technical advantages are shortened
*Financial* - we won the Cold War by forcing the Soviets to keep up; it ruined them financially.  We headed down a path of ruin in competing with ourselves in some Utopian attempt to provide all things to all people (see entitlements).  We have no financial foresight or strategy.
*Complacency/Apathy *- we're content saying we're the best, despite any evidence to the contrary.  Individuals are more interested in self gain/satisfaction than they are of the wellbeing of those around them.  This scales up on a macro level.  We've been fighting a war for 10+ years....think about that.   Now think about the sacrifices society made in WWII.  Those sacrifices resulted in an "all in" commitment from our entire society (war bonds, factories, etc.).  Could an effort/sacrifice of that magnitude ever occur in today's society?  Now, efforts can't even garner a comment in the daily news.
Looking at the list, we're our own greatest threat.


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## AWP (Jan 15, 2014)

We are. You can break it down into categories, sections, arguments...but at the end of the day most empires fall because of internal weakness.

Pogo nailed it...and a subtle nod to car for that reference. Blue Skies.


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## JBS (Jan 15, 2014)

Per Secretary Hagel, the greatest large scale threat is now the threat of a* massive cyber attack*.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=120178


Personally I think it's total financial insolvency due to a collapse of the value of the US dollar thanks to hyperinflation.   There are signs this could be 5 years out or less.  China, India, Japan, and Russia are all buying huge quantities of gold- thousands of metric tons- which some say is part of a global effort to prepare to go off the US dollar as the global reserve currency.   In recent years, there have even been instances where traveling Japanese businessmen have been caught traveling with - not MILLIONS, but- BILLIONS of US Dollars on their way to cash in the financial instruments in Switzerland.
*
Businessman with $134 Billion Detained*
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a62_boqkurbI


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## Red-Dot (Jan 15, 2014)

Blizzard said:


> Off the top of my head, threats to US, in no particular order:
> 
> *Education* - both internally (within our borders) and externally (outside our borders); lack of education allows extremism to thrive.  Lack of critical thought is a killer
> *Entitlement *- our society has become too dependent upon others to provide for us, we've come to view opportunities and priviliges as rights with little to no critical thought as to the impact.  Simply put, as a society we're lazy (and not only in the physical sense).  We need a spirit of self reliance.
> ...



Agree 100%...and will add one more.   Degradation of American Society-  We have gotten to the point where anything goes... The moral backbone of America has all but disappeared. Compare it if you want to the Roman Empire a civilization who had a strong morality in its formative years which quickly regressed to barbarism and debauchary. Not soon after which, Rome fell apart.


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## DA SWO (Jan 15, 2014)

Havoc13 said:


> ShadowSpear Friends-
> 
> One of my coworkers and I were discussing what constitutes the "greatest threats" to the US.
> 
> ...



Cyber, shut a power grid down in the NE during winter and DC would fold like an accordion.


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## Kraut783 (Jan 15, 2014)

"Looking at the list, we're our own greatest threat."

Spot on.....we will over react to almost every situation....politically....public emotionally....we will never be strong enough to be able to "remain calm and carry on"

We are becoming the new Rome....or have already become it.


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## MOTOMETO (Jan 15, 2014)

Solar storms are a potential threat. The Atlantic Coast in particular would be severely affected.

http://www.lloyds.com/news-and-insi.../us-east-coast-at-high-risk-from-solar-storms



> Damage to a small number of transformers in the densely populated US Atlantic coast is particularly concerning, according to the report. Physical and technological risk factors along the East Coast - such as magnetic latitude, distance to the coast and ground conductivity– make it a high risk for power outages, although the Midwest and the Gulf Coast states are also at risk, it says.
> 
> 
> A large solar storm in 1989 triggered the collapse of Quebec’s electrical power grid– leaving six million Canadians without power for nine hours – while a smaller storm in 2003 caused blackouts in Sweden as well as damage to transformers in South Africa (transformers at that latitude were previously thought to be immune from such damage).
> ...


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## goon175 (Jan 15, 2014)

Laziness. I think this kind of ties into entitlement, but just general laziness - expecting something for nothing. I honestly think America could be attacked by an actual Army (not terrorists) on our own shoreline and the people that even left their house would be minimal. Worried? Sure. Worried enough to do something like on the scale of WW2 (damn near every man, woman and child contributing) probably wouldn't happen. That's an extreme case of course, but the laziness of so many people carries over into many other areas that effect us on a daily basis.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 16, 2014)

Education. Our schools are terrible.


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## 0699 (Jan 16, 2014)

#3 - Monkeys
#2 - Clowns
#1 - Monkeys dressed like clowns


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## RetPara (Jan 16, 2014)

Seriously.....

Y3K


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## x SF med (Jan 16, 2014)

Our greatest threat is apathy disguised as compassion...  the takeover of this society by socialist idealism hiding tyranny and despotism - wrapped in a blanket of 'it's for the best for the most, look at all the horrors in the world" to disguise even further treachery by those megalomaniacal power brokers that will not be happy until the idea of the US Constitutional Republic is smashed and hidden in socio-fascist doctrine and the freedoms are removed from all people.

...the second greatest threat is the above, but change it to Islamo-fascist medieval tyrants.

the third - the society of entitlement...

(wow, I sound a bit to the right of Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun...  I need to stop reading James Wesley Rawles books...)


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## Scotth (Jan 16, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> Education. Our schools are terrible.



The other countries spanking our bottoms in educational performance send their kids to school year round and we give kids 3 months off each year and we wonder why they're ahead of us in performance.

Pessimism.  The whole country needs a big icky cocktail (or maybe a joint if you live in Colorado) and to get laid.

The sky isn't falling any more today under Obama then it was when Bush was in office.  The country moves slower then we want it to but things tend to work out in the end.


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## Brill (Jan 16, 2014)

RetPara said:


> Seriously.....
> 
> Y3K



Holy crap! Just imagine all those lines of computer code that needs to be fixed!


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## reed11b (Jan 17, 2014)

Scotth said:


> The other countries spanking our bottoms in educational performance send their kids to school year round and we give kids 3 months off each year and we wonder why they're ahead of us in performance.
> 
> Pessimism.  The whole country needs a big icky cocktail (or maybe a joint if you live in Colorado) and to get laid.
> 
> The sky isn't falling any more today under Obama then it was when Bush was in office.  The country moves slower then we want it to but things tend to work out in the end.


Hours in school is not the only answer. Finland (Ranked #1) starts kids in school much later then we do and have frequent recesses throughout the day. It's not a straight equation of more = better. But I do agree that education needs some major reform, and that a 3 month summer break is not required.
Reed


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## DA SWO (Jan 17, 2014)

Scotth said:


> The other countries spanking our bottoms in educational performance send their kids to school year round and we give kids 3 months off each year and we wonder why they're ahead of us in performance.
> 
> Pessimism.  The whole country needs a big icky cocktail (or maybe a joint if you live in Colorado) and to get laid.
> 
> The sky isn't falling any more today under Obama then it was when Bush was in office.  The country moves slower then we want it to but things tend to work out in the end.


We need to get rid of fat lazy teachers.  
We need to tell parents to fuck off when little Johnny/Jane get into trouble.
11 months of school works for me (need some time for maintenance).


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## goon175 (Jan 17, 2014)

I don't think we should put ourselves in the box of "more quantity means more quality". For instance, that line of thought was used for school funding. We now spend more than almost every other nation on education - yet our world ranking has fallen. I think getting rid of tenure for teachers is a great start, and instead of buying iPads for every student they should think about increasing teachers' pay so as to attract more talent to the profession.


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## JBS (Jan 17, 2014)

goon175 said:


> ...they should think about increasing teachers' pay so as to attract more talent to the profession.



THIS X10


Every free enterprise on earth has already figured out that if you want the best, brightest, and most talented people, you need to pay them! 

Want to fix education?   To me it's staggeringly simple.   Triple the pay (AT LEAST) and then keep top performers.  No apologies, no excuses, nothing.   Good money and consequences for failure.  End of story.

You will have top students on earth in 5 - 10 years even with no iPads.


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## Salt USMC (Jan 17, 2014)

It'd be awesome to just up teacher's salaries, but that's a HUGE expense.  So here's a thought piece:  I looked up some numbers from the BLS, and apparently there are about 3.3 million primary and secondary school teachers in the US (with a little over 400k private school teachers, but they are not factored into that number).  

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Education-Tr...ndergarten-and-elementary-school-teachers.htm - Primary school
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/middle-school-teachers.htm - Middle school (note that they include sixth grade teachers in these numbers - there may be some overlap with primary school numbers)
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes252031.htm High school
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 Total numbers including demographics

I did not see any data in these for average salaries for primary and middle school teachers (they list the median salaries for some reason), but the mean salary for high school teachers came out to 57k a year.  According to that 4th link, the average salary across all public schools was fairly close - about 56k a year.  Tripling that would come out to 168k/year.  So, assuming we have approximately 3.3 million public school teachers, paying triple the average wage would increase the ED budget to approximately $554.4 billion per year.  That's a lot of money!

So where are we going to get it?

Well, for FY14 there's about $1 trillion in discretionary spending (http://useconomy.about.com/od/usfederalbudget/p/Discretionary.htm -note that this is current as of today).  So you can pick and choose from there.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 17, 2014)

Switching gears a bit, how many of you view transhumanism, gene manipulation and animal & human crossing as a major threat? Not even looking at it from a biblical aspect, there are a lot of scientist and major research org's out there calling for global restriction and regulations. My personal beliefs tell me it wronger than two little boys in a dark closet. My curiosity is fascinated by it.

Everything being listed on other topics or issues I am pretty much in agreement with at the baseline, but one thing that has really not been getting much discussion on here or on other boards I'm on is the whole "playing god/manipulation of our species". Is it a threat? The scientist doing the research seem to think so....


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## TLDR20 (Jan 17, 2014)

In order to pay teachers more you would have to raise taxes. Since most education funding takes place at the local level, some districts simply don't have the funding to just pay teachers more. I personally believe that education is a national security concern, and should be funded much more at the federal level. So for example, a kid in Chapel Hill NC, doesn't get a way different education than a kid in let's say Raeford NC.


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## DasBoot (Jan 17, 2014)

I agree that education is the greatest issue we face. I don't think things are as dire as some would lead us to think though- if you look at the education rankings, the U.S. as a whole has fallen behind, but if you look at individual states, several are actually doing very well- Massachussetts, if it were it's own country, would be second in the world in science and 6th in math. Many of the nations that did better than the U.S. as a whole are much smaller in terms of population than the U.S. And are comparable in size and GDP to a small state like MA. I say all this because, in terms of being a huge country that faces issues that most developed nations don't face (it would be better to compare the U.S. and the entire EU's rest results). So I don't think we can all jump up and say our education system is totally fucked- yet.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 17, 2014)

DasBoot said:


> I agree that education is the greatest issue we face. I don't think things are as dire as some would lead us to think though- if you look at the education rankings, the U.S. as a whole has fallen behind, but if you look at individual states, several are actually doing very well- Massachussetts, if it were it's own country, would be second in the world in science and 6th in math. Many of the nations that did better than the U.S. as a whole are much smaller in terms of population than the U.S. And are comparable in size and GDP to a small state like MA. I say all this because, in terms of being a huge country that faces issues that most developed nations don't face (it would be better to compare the U.S. and the entire EU's rest results). So I don't think we can all jump up and say our education system is totally fucked- yet.



It is easy to say that, but I go to college with kids who can barely write a complete sentence.


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## DasBoot (Jan 17, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> In order to pay teachers more you would have to raise taxes. Since most education funding takes place at the local level, some districts simply don't have the funding to just pay teachers more. I personally believe that education is a national security concern, and should be funded much more at the federal level. So for example, a kid in Chapel Hill NC, doesn't get a way different education than a kid in let's say Raeford NC.


Adding to this- when one state teachers creationism in their science textbooks, you have a major issue. I think a national curriculm would be a good idea (I don't believe that is implemented at this point, but I could be wrong).


TLDR20 said:


> It is easy to say that, but I go to college with kids who can barely write a complete sentence.



We could all present anecdotal evidence about how the people we go to school with are undereducated idiots or how there are plenty of extremely intelligent people still coming out of public education system, but the numbers don't point to a system that has totally collapsed yet.  In the same test MA did so well, the U.S. Came in 10th out of 63 nations. Not too shabby- though it could and should be better.

ETA: here is the article that has all the results http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/science/expecting-the-best-yields-results-in-massachusetts.html


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## AWP (Jan 17, 2014)

While this is a great discussion, at the end of the day if we don't address the collapse of "the human condition" it won't matter what education or any other topic looks like. Laziness, self-entitlement, a lack of responsibility, a fundmental lack of respect for others and simple civility....if we create a nation of highly educated assholes then we're still a nation of assholes.

You can maybe argue that education will help reverse trends seen in the US today, and I can't argue with that, but much like any other war this requires a "full spectrum" solution. Treating the leaves of our plant when the roots are rotting is short-sighted. You have to start somewhere but we shouldn't kid ourselves that if we want a better country then we need to be better people. The thing is, we aren't going to turn it around, not without a catastrophe.


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## x SF med (Jan 17, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> It is easy to say that, but I go to college with kids who can barely write a complete sentence.



an example...  When I was in grade school, yes, primary school, I learned to diagram a sentence.  That 'skill' is now sometimes taught in the last part of a Master's In English Language and Rhetoric...  why?


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## Brill (Jan 17, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> It is easy to say that, but I go to college with kids who can barely write a complete sentence.



And those kids go to college with a Chargers fan. The horror...


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## Brill (Jan 17, 2014)

x SF med said:


> an example...  When I was in grade school, yes, primary school, I learned to diagram a sentence.  That 'skill' is now sometimes taught in the last part of a Master's In English Language and Rhetoric...  why?



Good question! Why indeed? Personally, I've only used that skill at DLI...repeatedly over four different courses...but outside of that, never!

Just like algebra: NEVER used it...except in Afghanistan...Africa...the ME...wait, I use it almost everyday. Never mind.


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## CDG (Jan 20, 2014)

JAB said:


> Switching gears a bit, how many of you view transhumanism, gene manipulation and animal & human crossing as a major threat? Not even looking at it from a biblical aspect, there are a lot of scientist and major research org's out there calling for global restriction and regulations. My personal beliefs tell me it wronger than two little boys in a dark closet. My curiosity is fascinated by it.
> 
> Everything being listed on other topics or issues I am pretty much in agreement with at the baseline, but one thing that has really not been getting much discussion on here or on other boards I'm on is the whole "playing god/manipulation of our species". Is it a threat? The scientist doing the research seem to think so....


 
I think this is a huge potential threat.  I was just reading an article on convergent technologies and it talked about not only the convergence of organic sciences, but even possibly a fusion between something like gene manipulation and robotics.  Something where it starts off as a medical/science based application, but the inevitable happens and it ends up weaponized and possibly in the wrong hands.  I definitely think more attention should be paid to the interplay of some of the different fields out there.


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## Centermass (Jan 20, 2014)

The fading Family Unit with a decent moral compass.


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## JBS (Jan 20, 2014)

I want to change my answer to a new generation of pot head kids now that the President of the United States of America condones smoking marijuana.


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## reed11b (Jan 20, 2014)

Centermass said:


> The fading Family Unit with a decent moral compass.


I've seen the loss of the "Nuclear Family" as the destruction of America argument made a lot, but the "Nuclear Family" is pretty damn recent phenomenon, and was part of the destruction of the "Extended Family" and before that it was the "tribe". Now say loss of sense of community and my "disagree" becomes an "agree".
Reed


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## AWP (Jan 20, 2014)

JAB said:


> Switching gears a bit, how many of you view transhumanism, gene manipulation and animal & human crossing as a major threat? Not even looking at it from a biblical aspect, there are a lot of scientist and major research org's out there calling for global restriction and regulations. My personal beliefs tell me it wronger than two little boys in a dark closet. My curiosity is fascinated by it.
> 
> Everything being listed on other topics or issues I am pretty much in agreement with at the baseline, but one thing that has really not been getting much discussion on here or on other boards I'm on is the whole "playing god/manipulation of our species". Is it a threat? The scientist doing the research seem to think so....


 
You make valid points, but I think now you're talking about a threat to the world, not just our country.

People talk about how we should have never built the atom bomb. On the surface, and for humanitarian reasons, I agree. When you look at the world and the people in it, particularly in the 1940's? No, we HAD to make the bomb. I think what you describe will fall into the same argument.


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## tova (Jan 21, 2014)

Lack of true imagination, honesty and common decency.


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## Centermass (Jan 21, 2014)

reed11b said:


> I've seen the loss of the "Nuclear Family" as the destruction of America argument made a lot, but the "Nuclear Family" is pretty damn recent phenomenon, and was part of the destruction of the "Extended Family" and before that it was the "tribe". Now say loss of sense of community and my "disagree" becomes an "agree".
> Reed




And exactly what makes up America? The same that makes up a community. FAMILY. Nuclear, tribe, as you call it. Whatever. When you now have mom trying to make ends meet, or mom, who doesn't give a flying F and continues having kids, they are then left to their own devices more often than not. And instead of becoming a person with those solid foundations that need to be built upon from age 2 on up, by a family, as a unit, I don't even need to finish the sentence or this post for that matter.


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## CQB (Jan 21, 2014)

TLDR20 said:


> Education. Our schools are terrible.



Out govt had an aid program where they fund madrassas. Sound fucked up? No, not really. Apart from learning the Koran the Indo kids weren't learning much else in some cases so they would leave a madrassa  illiterate. The program gives them the 3 Rs' so at least they have some basic life skills. As for cyber, IMO it's over hyped. 
Financial? Germany wanting its gold back could be a worry.


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## Blizzard (Jan 21, 2014)

JAB said:


> Switching gears a bit, how many of you view transhumanism, gene manipulation and animal & human crossing as a major threat? Not even looking at it from a biblical aspect, there are a lot of scientist and major research org's out there calling for global restriction and regulations. My personal beliefs tell me it wronger than two little boys in a dark closet. My curiosity is fascinated by it.
> 
> Everything being listed on other topics or issues I am pretty much in agreement with at the baseline, but one thing that has really not been getting much discussion on here or on other boards I'm on is the whole "playing god/manipulation of our species". Is it a threat? The scientist doing the research seem to think so....


 And robots.  I hate robots.


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## DA SWO (Jan 21, 2014)

goon175 said:


> I don't think we should put ourselves in the box of "more quantity means more quality". For instance, that line of thought was used for school funding. We now spend more than almost every other nation on education - yet our world ranking has fallen. I think getting rid of tenure for teachers is a great start, and instead of buying iPads for every student they should think about increasing teachers' pay so as to attract more talent to the profession.


Increased pay doesn't do shit when the unions protect the old guard, I'll support increased pay when I see an increase in quality, or some sort of proficiency measure for teachers and administrators.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 21, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Increased pay doesn't do shit when the unions protect the old guard, I'll support increased pay when I see an increase in quality, or some sort of proficiency measure for teachers and administrators.



I am no fan of unions, but in states like NC where there are not unions, teachers barely make a living wage.


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## RustyShackleford (Jan 21, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Increased pay doesn't do shit when the unions protect the old guard, I'll support increased pay when I see an increase in quality, or some sort of proficiency measure for teachers and administrators.


 
While I agree with what you said about protecting teachers with tenure, look at what kids are learning in school compared to what we were taught at the same age and grade levels.  Some of the stuff kids are doing in 5th and 6th grade today wasn't taught until high school 20 years ago.  I listen to folks in their 50s and 60s complain about teachers not teaching shit and having it "too easy" or getting "too many days off" yet they have no idea what the fuck is even being taught to kids these days let alone want to take the time to find out.  It's just easier to complain while fewer and fewer capable people want to teach because of shit pay and nothing but parents who don't give a shit (none of this was directed at you, SOWT, but rather some people I know personally).


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