# No more Seaman!



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

I put on E4 today.  It's an automatic advancement with my rate once I graduated A-school and had at least 6 months in service.  So, while I didn't do too much to earn it, it will be a nice pay raise and will hopefully keep me out of FSA and Cranking (not holding my breath on either of those though) once I get to the fleet.
It's amazing what a pair of shirt stays and a little shoe polish will do to a uniform.  Room full of turds they were...  Even the E7 and O3 doing the take and shake were wearing uniforms that appeared to have either just been unfolded (Chief) or almost completely untucked in the back (LT).  Even if it is just a bunch of push-button E4 kids, anything that has the word "ceremony" in it should involve some effort to look presentable.  
/end rant


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats! I hope it helps on the Cranking deferment. I never went, thankfully, on account of my "awesomeness" (went shore first, made E-5, went to ship, so no awesomeness for me).

Kind of crappy that the LT and Chief were dirt bags, hopefully karma comes around to bear down on them.


----------



## fox1371 (Jun 18, 2012)

Wait...so you're an NCO and you haven't even hit the fleet yet???


----------



## policemedic (Jun 18, 2012)

Congratulations!

For us ground pounders, what the hell is cranking?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats!


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

fox1371 said:


> Wait...so you're an NCO and you haven't even hit the fleet yet???


 
No way!!  
It works a bit differently in the Navy.  E7 - E9 (Chiefs) are considered our Sr. leadership.  They would be the closest thing to an NCO/SrNCO the Navy has.  E4 - E6 (Petty Officers) are the guys/gals doing the majority of the physical labor as well as holding supervisory positions.  That's it in a very succinct nutshell.  I'm sure IT101 or CDG can correct me if I'm mistaken here.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

policemedic said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> For us ground pounders, what the hell is cranking?


 
Working down in the engineering (mechanical) spaces where it's 100+ degrees all the time.  And working with the cooks, washing dishes, serving food, dumping trash, etc.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm unsure of what constitutes an NCO from a supervisory standard, but SkrewzLoose is correct in that the Navy works on a different scale than the other services, not necessarily in a completely positive way.

I've never heard of cranking involving the engineering aspect of what was mentioned, but that's from my limited experience and you are spot on with the rest: on the small boy (Destroyer) I was on, cranking was a different term for FSA, aka the folks who worked for/under the oppressive thumb of the cooks. Good part of cranking was they did not generally stand in-port watches.


----------



## fox1371 (Jun 18, 2012)

I just know E-4 was always a big thing amongst our Corpsmen.  E-4 is technically an NCO in the Navy, just like it is in the Marines.  The load of responsibility varies though I'm sure.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

E-4's are supposedly the fledgling supervisory positions, like overseeing the E-1 through E-3's painting or conducting maintenance while E-5 is supposed to be a person with higher technical knowledge that gets the fun jobs. E-6 is very paperwork and administrative-oriented. I won't even go in to E-7 through E-9, as those are different beasts altogether.

Also, I emphasize the use of the derivatives of suppose, because it rarely works out that way and is very job specific.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

IT101 said:


> ~snip
> I've never heard of cranking involving the engineering aspect of what was mentioned, but that's from my limited experience and you are spot on with the rest: on the small boy (Destroyer) I was on, cranking was a different term for FSA, aka the folks who worked for/under the oppressive thumb of the cooks. Good part of cranking was they did not generally stand in-port watches.


 
Just looked it up and you're right.  I was always under the impression that cranking was when you worked with the engineering guys and FSA was something totally different. Perhaps I was getting that confused with ESWS or some kind of quals you have to get early on.
Learn something new every day!


----------



## Dame (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats!


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:
			
		

> Just looked it up and you're right. I was always under the impression that cranking was when you worked with the engineering guys and FSA was something totally different. Perhaps I was getting that confused with ESWS or some kind of quals you have to get early on.
> Learn something new every day!


 
I pray you do not have to work with the Engineers. Though not the most glorious job, theirs is one of the hardest.

If you do not mind my asking, what rate did you come in as? I doubt I'll be able to put my two cents in on your job, but I'm curious as I don't know which ones qualify for the auto-advancement.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

I came in with a SWCC contract, so my original plan was to be SB3 by this time and have a shiny warfare device complete with a MKV/enlisted cutlass/flintlock pistol.  I got a huge case of Vag-itis in Coronado and when it came time to reclassify, I chose FC.  So now, I'm FC3.

FC, ET, IC (6 year contract), Nukes all qualify for push button E4 as far as big Navy goes.  There might be others, but these are the ones that I know of only because of my exposure to them on the base here.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

Well, another congratulations on making it through FC "A" School! Certainly not for the faint of heart.

The Navy does anything, shy of extreme public displays of affection, to keep Nukes in.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats, dude!


----------



## Brill (Jun 18, 2012)

When I made 3rd class, my arm was black & blue for a week.  I've heard now things have changed though. 

Just wait to you get your pin, go through Shellback, Chief's initiation, etc.  Man, those were good times.  No other service carries on tradition like the Navy does.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats!


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

lindy said:


> When I made 3rd class, my arm was black & blue for a week. I've heard now things have changed though.
> 
> Just wait to you get your pin, go through Shellback, Chief's initiation, etc. Man, those were good times. No other service carries on tradition like the Navy does.


 
Yeah, hazing is highly frowned upon now and no real chance to get my crows "tacked on" here in my whites.  From what I've heard, all the other traditions you've listed still live on.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, I remember getting my pin... People went easy on me, I assume it's because I could take down their Unclass Internet/email. But when they take the frog legs off and give it a nice, solid punch, you'll feel even better about your accomplishment. Or bleed to death, one of the two. Lucky for you, the two hardest parts of ESWS for me were Engineering, and your multi-faceted world so you'll have a good inside look at the latter.

Sadly, I never achieved Shellback status and, damn my luck, the ship went a few months after I departed.

Any idea where you're heading now?


----------



## Muppet (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats brother.

F.M.


----------



## CDG (Jun 18, 2012)

lindy said:


> When I made 3rd class, my arm was black & blue for a week. I've heard now things have changed though.
> 
> Just wait to you get your pin, go through Shellback, Chief's initiation, etc. Man, those were good times. No other service carries on tradition like the Navy does.


 
Meh.  Shellback ain't what it used to be either.  You have the option of not even participating if you don't want to.  And I believe they banned making the Wogs crawl around on the non-skid and shit.  Certain rates still carry on the tacking of the crows when making rank (like GM and BM).  Never got my ESWS, so I don't know what they do with that.


----------



## FatGrat (Jun 18, 2012)

Congratulations,  I hope you take your new leadership role seriously. It will pay off in the long run.


----------



## CDG (Jun 18, 2012)

fox1371 said:


> I just know E-4 was always a big thing amongst our Corpsmen. E-4 is technically an NCO in the Navy, just like it is in the Marines. The load of responsibility varies though I'm sure.


 
Indeed it does.  An E-4 in the Navy has a responsibility level comparable to a senior E-2 or junior E-3 in the USMC.  With something like the FC rate, where almost everyone automatically gets E-4, everyone else that's brand new to the command is the same rank as you, so being an E-4 really just means a bigger check.  You're going to be the division's bitch since you are the most junior guy.  It's not like you can just go grab some E-2 or E-3 to come clean your shit for you or whatever.  Honestly, E-4s really only have NCO type duties in certain rates.  Engineering, GMs, BMs, and MAs all will generally have E-4s tasked with some responsibility.  Typically your workcenter supervisor (sort of like a squad leader) will be an E-5, and then your Division LPO will be an E-6.  There may be other E-6s, and they will have some responsibility but not much.  Typically the Chief will get taskings from the Divison officer (usually an 0-1 or 0-2), pass them on to the LPO, who will pass them on to the WCS, who will mete out the individual assignments.  The other thing to keep in mind, and this used to irritate me to no end, is that respect for rank is pretty much non-existent in the Navy.  Guys watch their shit around Chiefs and Os, but telling an E-4, E-5, or E-6 to "Fuck off. Do it yourself." is not an uncommon occurrence.  The culture of the Navy is such that there is no real magnitude of respect placed on rank below E-7.


----------



## CDG (Jun 18, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Working down in the engineering (mechanical) spaces where it's 100+ degrees all the time. And working with the cooks, washing dishes, serving food, dumping trash, etc.


 
Not many guys work Engineering for their cranking tour.  Typically that is only reserved for the undesignated firemen.  The exception to that rule being if the kitchen is over-staffed, or engineering is under-staffed.  If you can, try to get into the Wardroom.  Way better work environment and shorter hours.  Better food to steal too. ;)  And you are sorely mistaken when you say that you work WITH the cooks.  You do fucking everything for the cooks while they sit on their asses and play cards or watch TV.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

CDG said:
			
		

> Guys watch their shit around Chiefs and Os, but telling an E-4, E-5, or E-6 to "Fuck off. Do it yourself." is not an uncommon occurrence. The culture of the Navy is such that there is no real magnitude of respect placed on rank below E-7.


Agree with the first part. Second part is very job specific. No offense CDG, but GM's are very brazen and will tell you to f--- off if you ask them to do anything they don't *feel like* doing. In other jobs, like BM's, you will get your ass handed to you physically and verbally if you spout off. Hell, they'll run you through the ringer if the other person has a day or two more time-in-rate than you.



			
				CDG said:
			
		

> You do fucking everything for the cooks while they sit on their asses and play cards or watch TV.


Wholeheartedly agree. Though I couldn't work in the Wardroom, playing waiter to some spineless, inexperienced newbies.


----------



## CDG (Jun 18, 2012)

IT101 said:


> Agree with the first part. Second part is very job specific. No offense CDG, but GM's are very brazen and will tell you to f--- off if you ask them to do anything they don't *feel like* doing. In other jobs, like BM's, you will get your ass handed to you physically and verbally if you spout off. Hell, they'll run you through the ringer if the other person has a day or two more time-in-rate than you.
> .


 
True. BM is really the only rate where this occurs though. I think that's due to the fact that a BM3 is typically in charge of a bunch of undesignated seamen. BMSNs or even BMSAs are treated far differently that undes guys, but they are far fewer in number than the undes seamen are. Those anchors on your shoulder make a huge difference.


----------



## Chopstick (Jun 18, 2012)

Congrats!


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

I'd rather be someone's bitch as an FC3 than a BM3 in charge of the undes crew.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 18, 2012)

CDG said:


> Meh. Shellback ain't what it used to be either. You have the option of not even participating if you don't want to. And I believe they banned making the Wogs crawl around on the non-skid and shit. Certain rates still carry on the tacking of the crows when making rank (like GM and BM). Never got my ESWS, so I don't know what they do with that.


 
Yep, from what some instructors told us, you can opt out of the shellbacking initiation and correct on the non-skid as well.
Never got your ESWS, what exactly DID you do in the Navy??


----------



## parallel (Jun 18, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Yep, from what some instructors told us, you can opt out of the shellbacking initiation and correct on the non-skid as well.
> Never got your ESWS, what exactly DID you do in the Navy??


ESWS = Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist and, at least when I was active duty, the vast majority of shipboard personnel did not qualify and only roughly half were even trying.

I'm a "Boats" that spent some time on NSW Boats... given that, most won't be surprised that I've told many a fucker to piss off or eat nonskid, collar insignia notwithstanding.

Back when I was in the best kept secret in the Navy, we didn't have a fancy school and new compound. We were basically equal parts trained/hazed by SEALs and SEAL wannabes until we got the NEC. It was great fun and I really miss those days. I would wager that one of the reasons they now have the closed loop SWCC community is because of fuckers like me... LOL.

Congrats on your "Crow", push button or not... although, you REALLY need to have someone "tack" that thing on or it might fall off.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

parallel said:


> ESWS = Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist and, at least when I was active duty, the vast majority of shipboard personnel did not qualify and only roughly half were even trying.
> 
> I'm a "Boats" that spent some time on NSW Boats... given that, most won't be surprised that I've told many a fucker to piss off or eat nonskid, collar insignia notwithstanding.


Anymore, not getting your ESWS makes you look like a shitbag. My ship made it borderline absurdly easy, but I'm not complaining.

Love that second half. As an IT, I can tactfully get away with doing that, but even I envy your background.


----------



## parallel (Jun 18, 2012)

> My ship made it borderline absurdly easy...


This is what happens when something becomes a bullet on one's eval versus a legitimate accomplishment.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 18, 2012)

parallel said:


> This is what happens when something becomes a bullet on one's eval versus a legitimate accomplishment.


Just like the idea of volunteer work! People spoke of when it became mainstream, a plea from the CNO for people to give to their communities. Now some people use that as a method to "standout", forsaking their real jobs just to get that volunteer bullet. Our NC1 on my ship was involved in everything from DC Training Team to FP Training Team and everything in between, but not so good at the actual job.


----------



## CDG (Jun 19, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Never got your ESWS, what exactly DID you do in the Navy??


 
Lol.  I had dreams of being a bar-fightin', NYC gun carryin', beach volleyball playin' Frogman and figured it didn't matter.  I was in the Fleet for 3 1/2 years before going to BUD/S, and after I DORd and went back to a boat for the last couple months I was in I just didn;t give a shit and wanted to get out.   Not the right attitude to have, but it was how I looked at it then.  If I could do it over again,I would have gotten it. 

Also, if you get your ESWS before your number is called for cranking, you can avoid having to do that.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 19, 2012)

parallel said:


> ESWS = Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist and, at least when I was active duty, the vast majority of shipboard personnel did not qualify and only roughly half were even trying.
> 
> I'm a "Boats" that spent some time on NSW Boats... given that, most won't be surprised that I've told many a fucker to piss off or eat nonskid, collar insignia notwithstanding.
> 
> ...


 
There's an 18 month "time limit" on getting your ESWS now.  I'm not sure how harsh your talking-to is if you don't meet that timeline but that's the way it goes.  
So were you telling people to piss off/eat non-skid because they were yelling at you for painting over a rotating gun mount, or did they start it?  
I'll have the nice Asian lady at the NEX sew this one one.  I'll worry about getting my arm punched until it's numb when I make 2nd class.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 19, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> There's an 18 month "time limit" on getting your ESWS now. I'm not sure how harsh your talking-to is if you don't meet that timeline but that's the way it goes.
> So were you telling people to piss off/eat non-skid because they were yelling at you for painting over a rotating gun mount, or did they start it?
> I'll have the nice Asian lady at the NEX sew this one one. I'll worry about getting my arm punched until it's numb when I make 2nd class.


Yeah, the 18 month time limit is kind of semi-enforced, depending on who your local Chain of Command consists of. I was the super, shit hot SysAdmin (yeah, right...) on my boat, so I was afforded some leniency. It screwed me for applying for JCU, though, but live and learn.


----------



## Scotth (Jun 19, 2012)

Congrats on the promotion.

Not knowing much about the Navy, which guy are you in this picture?

Someone has to try an pickup the clipart slack.  Mara has been dropping the ball lately.


----------



## CDG (Jun 19, 2012)

IT101 said:


> Yeah, the 18 month time limit is kind of semi-enforced, depending on who your local Chain of Command consists of. I was the super, shit hot SysAdmin (yeah, right...) on my boat, so I was afforded some leniency. It screwed me for applying for JCU, though, but live and learn.


 
I thought the time limit only came in once you made E-5?  I swear I remember it being that once you made E-5, you had 18 months to earn whatever pin was applicable.  ESWS, Air Warfare, Seabee, EXW, whatever.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 19, 2012)

CDG said:


> I thought the time limit only came in once you made E-5? I swear I remember it being that once you made E-5, you had 18 months to earn whatever pin was applicable. ESWS, Air Warfare, Seabee, EXW, whatever.


You are correct- I chalk up my lack of clarification up to being on mids (and a terrible memory). I know I overshot that by a significant amount, but that's irrelevant to the overall idea.

To be honest, though, it still goes back to the CoC and how much they push for ESWS quals since some divs were even pushing their senior (hard to mak E-4 rates) E-3's to get qual'ed.


----------



## parallel (Jun 19, 2012)

> So were you telling people to piss off/eat non-skid because they were yelling at you for painting over a rotating gun mount...


I can tell you're good fleet squid material... the high speed low drag boats don't get paint... it slows 'em down... LOL.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 19, 2012)

parallel said:


> I can tell you're good fleet squid material... the high speed low drag boats don't get paint... it slows 'em down... LOL.


 
Touché.  Well played!


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 19, 2012)

Scotth said:


> Congrats on the promotion.
> 
> Not knowing much about the Navy, which guy are you in this picture?
> View attachment 6258
> Someone has to try an pickup the clipart slack. Mara has been dropping the ball lately.


 
Neither really.  Closer to the guy in the blue coveralls though.  The text says he's a SEAMAN, but he has crows and his ESWS.  I'm nowhere near being in khakis yet.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 19, 2012)

Scotth said:


> Congrats on the promotion.
> 
> Not knowing much about the Navy, which guy are you in this picture?
> 
> Someone has to try an pickup the clipart slack. Mara has been dropping the ball lately.


Let me help out with some clipart of what your main job will be on the ship:






Watchstanding and maintenance take a back seat to cleaning, generally at least two or three times a day for 30+ minutes each session. Couldn't resist inserting such a... strange picture.


----------



## CDG (Jun 20, 2012)

IT101 said:


> Watchstanding and maintenance take a back seat to cleaning, generally at least two or three times a day for 30+ minutes each session.


 
Shit, on my first boat we had an hour of field day every day right after quarters.  Cleaning and 3M checks are pretty much the vast majority of what we did.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 20, 2012)

CDG said:


> Shit, on my first boat we had an hour of field day every day right after quarters. Cleaning and 3M checks are pretty much the vast majority of what we did.


 
That pretty much matches everything we've been told. Rev > Quarters > Field day (60 mins) > go about your business (clean, PMS, 3M, watch) Lather, rinse, repeat...


----------



## IT101 (Jun 20, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> That pretty much matches everything we've been told. Rev > Quarters > Field day (60 mins) > go about your business (clean, PMS, 3M, watch) Lather, rinse, repeat...


Rev > Quarters > Sweep > Some 3M > Lunch > Field Day ("heavy" work right after a meal?!) > A little more 3M > Sweep and dust whatever managed to accumulate since lunch > Think about getting liberty > Stand around while LPO tries to figure out where Chief went > Figure out Chief left for the day > LPO leaves, finally granting liberty as the door shuts behind him/her


----------



## CDG (Jun 20, 2012)

IT101 said:


> Rev > Quarters > Sweep > Some 3M > Lunch > Field Day ("heavy" work right after a meal?!) > A little more 3M > Sweep and dust whatever managed to accumulate since lunch > Think about getting liberty > Stand around while LPO tries to figure out where Chief went > Figure out Chief left for the day > LPO leaves, finally granting liberty as the door shuts behind him/her


 
Lol.  So true....


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm assuming that's not going to work for me when I first get to a ship due to quals and what not...


----------



## parallel (Jun 20, 2012)

Sweepers sweepers, man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweep down fore and aft. Sweep down all lower decks, ladder backs and passageways. Throw all trash clear of the fantail. Now sweepers!


----------



## CDG (Jun 21, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> I'm assuming that's not going to work for me when I first get to a ship due to quals and what not...


 
What do you mean?


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 21, 2012)

Are quals (watch standing, DC, FF, etc) worked on during normal working hours or after?  We've been told to expect long days (once we report to a ship) until we start making some good headway on our watch quals and our ESWS sign offs.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 21, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Are quals (watch standing, DC, FF, etc) worked on during normal working hours or after? We've been told to expect long days (once we report to a ship) until we start making some good headway on our watch quals and our ESWS sign offs.


You should have a reasonable amount of time prior to getting 3M qual'ed to get some of your DC out of the way. Beyond that, it'll either be after hours (DC, ESWS) or during scheduled watch U/I periods for your various in-port or underway watches.


----------



## CDG (Jun 21, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Are quals (watch standing, DC, FF, etc) worked on during normal working hours or after? We've been told to expect long days (once we report to a ship) until we start making some good headway on our watch quals and our ESWS sign offs.


 
Depends.  Sounds like IT101 had a different experience than I did.  My command was all about getting the DC quals done pronto.  So there were times we were able to skip other shit in order to get quals done.  Duty days are great for getting shitloads of quals knocked out as well.


----------



## IT101 (Jun 22, 2012)

CDG said:


> Depends. Sounds like IT101 had a different experience than I did. My command was all about getting the DC quals done pronto. So there were times we were able to skip other shit in order to get quals done. Duty days are great for getting shitloads of quals knocked out as well.


My command actually pushed to get DC up to 313 knocked out during Indoc, but I had heard that was extraordinarily uncommon, just like our ESWS rodeos. Overall, sounds like YMMV.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 22, 2012)

Well, IT101 , you said you showed up to your first ship as a 2nd class after a shore duty, correct?  That might be why you had a different experience.  I would assume that'd be a bit different than a fresh-out-of-A-school E1-3 or push button E4.  
Fuck I wish I'd had more time/better resources to research all this shit when I quit.  Que sera, sera.


----------



## SkrewzLoose (Jun 22, 2012)

Got my first "Good morning Petty Officer" greeting today.  I never know if people around here do it to be smart asses or if they really don't know any better.


----------

