# Is the SOF life fulfilling



## Jaygo (Aug 16, 2015)

**Disclaimer** The intent of this post is not to degrade or defame the Marine Corps, but to give perspective into where I am coming from, and for me to gain outside perspective from more experience Veterans.

I joined the Military for the benefits, and I joined the Marines because I bit hard into the recruiting propaganda. I wanted to be pushed and challenged, and to work with highly motivated and competent individuals. I wanted to do my enlistment, and be able to look back and say that was a hard, but rewarding couple of years.

Well Boot Camp and MCT was a bit of a joke to me. I was under the impression they would be about weeding people out, rather than pushing them through. I made it to my duty station in Japan, and found ~80% of the people here have no aspirations, get light duty chits because they have a booboo, and are overall not even close to what I envision "Marines" would be. Then most of the lifers are only here because it's an easy paycheck, and they probably couldn't hack it in the civilian world. I am neither pushed nor challenged. The grunts I have spoken to are either just as bad, or just as disgruntled as I am. (I have not had the opportunity to talk to any Operators)

Now note: I am POG, and I have never deployed. I am coming up on my 3 year mark, and need to start making a decision. I look back on my (admittedly short) time in the Military, and can't say I have gained much other than my GI Bill, VA benefits, etc.

My HOPE is that MARSOC is the land I envisioned from the start. A place where I will be surrounded by highly motivated and competent individuals, where we push each other to be better every day (I know I may sound like a moto-boot to many of you). I have been prepping for quite some time, and based on reading the threads here, I am confident that physically I could be competitive for selection (I understand there is more than the physical aspect).

My FEAR is that it's another trap. That I will make another 5 year commitment, and be just a disgruntled. I look at the MARSOC recruiting website, and I went to the brief, and I feel I'm being told a lot of the same things as when I first enlisted in the Corps. 

Again, I do not want to come across as bashing the Marines, I have just had limited experience, and would like to gain some perspective on the SOF life.

I apologize if there are similar threads to this, I looked around a bit and could not find any though.


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## AWP (Aug 16, 2015)

Jaygo said:


> I wanted to be pushed and challenged, and to work with highly motivated and competent individuals. I wanted to do my enlistment, and be able to look back and say that was a hard, but rewarding couple of years.



*Generally* speaking, if the above is what you want and you can't find it in a SOF unit, then you're either a total asshole or Superman.

With that said, what is your definition of being pushed and challenged? Physical? Mental? Shooting people in the face? Travel? Austere environments? Technology? Everyone has their own vision of a challenge and I don't think our Marines/ Raiders here can answer you without a bit more clarification.

ETA: Sometimes a challenge is what you make of the opportunities.

Good luck.


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## dmcgill (Aug 16, 2015)

Marines who sign up to be "Marines" yet ask for a job that puts them behind a desk in 1st Typewriter Battalion...what did you expect? 

It doesn't sound like you really wanted to be pushed and challenged when you didn't sign up to do a job that forces you to confront adversity and crush it. It sounds to me like you got exactly what you asked for from the Marine Corps? Did you expect to find meat-eating pipe hitters in an office? I'm not bashing you, just giving you a different perspective. Cut and dry, you're going to have to deal with bullshit anywhere in life and the same applies to any place in the military. Every unit has turds. Every unit has studs. Find out HOW you want to be of service to your country and go do that. I'm just a dumb grunt who has a few friends in different branches of SOF, but I can tell you that every single one of them would rather be no where else than where they are. 

Good luck in finding your path man.


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## Jaygo (Aug 16, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> With that said, what is your definition of being pushed and challenged? Physical? Mental? Shooting people in the face? Travel? Austere environments? Technology? Everyone has their own vision of a challenge and I don't think our Marines/ Raiders here can answer you without a bit more clarification.



I guess it comes back to the question of, is it fulfilling? Is the culture really different than the rest of the normal 9-5 military? "Like" is a horrible word to use here, but for lack of a better one, do they like it? And why?

I don't want the recruiter BS version of, "Oh be a Marine, you'll do cool things and get laid." Like I said, I was kind of getting this vibe even from the MARSOC brief. I want the straightforward insight from the guys in the dirt. I'm sorry if I'm fucking this question up. 

Also, "Sometimes a challenge is what you make of the opportunities." Some profound shit there.



dmcgill said:


> Marines who sign up to be "Marines" yet ask for a job that puts them behind a desk in 1st Typewriter Battalion...what did you expect?
> 
> It doesn't sound like you really wanted to be pushed and challenged when you didn't sign up to do a job that forces you to confront adversity and crush it. It sounds to me like you got exactly what you asked for from the Marine Corps? Did you expect to find meat-eating pipe hitters in an office? I'm not bashing you, just giving you a different perspective. Cut and dry, you're going to have to deal with bullshit anywhere in life and the same applies to any place in the military. Every unit has turds. Every unit has studs. Find out HOW you want to be of service to your country and go do that. I'm just a dumb grunt who has a few friends in different branches of SOF, but I can tell you that every single one of them would rather be no where else than where they are.
> 
> Good luck in finding your path man.



It was me enlisting while in high school, being extremely naive, and not knowing wtf a "grunt" or "POG" was. Which I will admit was my fault for not having done much research. Thus why I'm here the second time around.

But thank you for the insight.


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## x SF med (Aug 16, 2015)

@Jaygo - every job in the military is important, remember there are more support people than there are Combat Arms, because it takes a larger number of non-combat troops to keep the fighters in the fight.

Any military billet can be fulfilling, or unfulfilling - if you are good at your job and strive to excel in every task, what you are doing will be done properly which is fulfilling.  SOF is a lifestyle, not a job, it requires a dedication to yourself and your Team that has to come first.  There is as much bullshit in an SOF billet as in any other billet, it's just a matter of degrees and the ultimate mission that change.

What you're asking us to do is tell you that SOF is better than where you are, we can't possibly make that decision for you.  You have to decide if you 1. are ready to change your life 2. are willing to accept that you have a less than 10% chance of getting to SOF 3. are willing to dedicate everything you have to getting through A&S, training and then keeping that dedication once you arrive at your unit.

It's all on you, there is lots of information her on the site about SOF lifestyle, search it out, read it, join the USMC SOF mentor program, but it ultimately is you who has to decide if the SOF world will be fulfilling to you.

Get out there and research, you are still young, make a choice and stand by it.


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## Hangry Bear (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm going to go against the grain here and say yes. It can be extremely rewarding. There are days that you're miserable and there is no end in sight. Then there are days when you say to yourself "I could never do anything else". There is a chance you land in a team that isnt motivated. In that case, it isn't fulfilling until you've gotten to a position of authority where you actually have the power and influence to force those in your unit to be better. There is a chance that you end up on a team with a team chief that doesn't care and let's his cancer spread into the ranks. If that's the case, take a pen and write down exactly how you would make it different. Plan your education so that higher ups have no choice but to put you in charge. And be bold. Be outspoken. But think it through. I hope that helped. Good luck.


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## Teufel (Aug 16, 2015)

I can't speak for MARSOC but you describe the culture I have always experienced in Recon, especially at Force.  We are really bad at recruiting but at least this way we know that the guys who come over are doing so for the right reasons.  Attrition at BRC is incredibly high for lat movers though.  I'm not sure why exactly.


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## Kheenbish (Aug 17, 2015)

Sounds like your doing more complaining than being proactive and actually learning what's out there. I'm partially in the same position as you, except in the Air Force doing logistics. I hate my job, with a passion, but I figured I wouldn't waste my time until I can retrain being negative and complaining, got attached to AFSOC and have had two deployments with them and one working as the J4 of a SMU and only been in little over three years now. I saw the career fields I want to be in first hand and know what I want to accomplish. Now I'm set to start my package knowing what I'll possibly be doing.


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## The Hate Ape (Aug 23, 2015)

Jaygo, your post has drawn a lot of criticism but I sympathize with your feelings. 

Your emotions and desires stem from feelings of inadequacy, they fuel your decisions to go to the "big thing" yet you also allow previous experience to hinder your development.  As a MARSOC Marine I can wholeheartedly tell you it was never what I expected it to be - having expectations is a way of life in anything that we do within or beyond the military but more importantly, expectations can breed a lot of disappointment. Rather than desperately attempting to shape your life to the gun club - find what works for you first and make a real decision. You can push yourself to move into MARSOC, Recon, a lateral move into something or maybe an inter-service transfer into another branch. You can drop the cammies and go the civilian sector, or a three letter agency, or private military. You want to do badass shit - I get it, those were my original motivations too and I was an open contract coming into the military. I felt shafted - so do you. We were both wrong.

My introduction to MARSOC was not without heartache. This passion and what I will tell you is a very negative attitude was a carbon copy of 2011-12 for myself. My first team was standoffish as best, because I exhilarated your same passions and desires that when linked with extreme expectations, yielded disappointment and a very negative energy. Negative energies = no bueno on a team and really do not bode with with any bonding activities whether its hitting the same house for six hours or being at the bar for six more. Jay if there is anything you can learn from this post - let it be to drop your expectations and your ego where you stand and do the best job you can without bitching or complaining. You will likely read this post and criticize my comments, but understand that reading yours immediately took me back to my younger days and made me wish I had made quicker decisions _then_ so that I would be better off now.

I love my job. I fucking hate my job. I never want to leave my job...

I have met the most bonafide, pipe-hitting, professionals and professional-assholes on the planet. I have visited more countries than I have states, I have legitimately (and by my old expectations) fought the GWOT with honor & dignity alongside a warrior class. Jay I re-state however, my life could have been so much easier had someone explained what I am explaining to you. 

The most important thing you can do for yourself in this situation is make a decision without comprehending it for months. I recall moments where I would discuss my options with my peers with enthusiasm in every path as if "this was it, this is what I'm going to do" only to back out of it thinking I had a better plan months later. If we combined everything - I would be a Marine Corps Boxing Team, Force Reconnaissance, MARSOC, Special Forces, Ranger... seriously just pick something and go with it.

The point is for you to stop analyzing every gig available to you. Time is a motherfucker - wasting it contemplating will not get you anywhere. Any of the mentioned sections in this entire thread will better you, you just need to shit or get off the pot. Follow through Jay... follow through...

Lastly, I will reiterate that you need to drop your ego. Yes you have one. Its obvious in your writing just as it was obvious in my day - it will get you nowhere. Be humble, be the gray man, and do your best in what you do now at your "POG" life as you call it which pisses me off but that's for another topic. Should you be selected or hired into what you have daydreamed about, the last thing you want to do is leave a mark that you were a douche at your old unit. That doesn't do well for your new unit's image and it can come back to haunt you should you ever have to work with them be it unit or individual based (other guys go to selection too you know).

That shit can bite you in the ass Jay.

Hope this post helps and I hope you choose a path that works and stick with it. The feelings you have are agonizing but left unchecked should you make it to one of those units it will grow much, much worse.



R/



H/A


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## Jim Flagan (Aug 26, 2015)

Teufel said:


> I can't speak for MARSOC but you describe the culture I have always experienced in Recon, especially at Force.  We are really bad at recruiting but at least this way we know that the guys who come over are doing so for the right reasons.  Attrition at BRC is incredibly high for lat movers though.  I'm not sure why exactly.



It's an Ego thing sir, 1st phase took a little adjusting . From AD1, you were no longer that salty belleauwoodsman you once were. you were no longer that team leader, chief scout, section leader, Or VC you used to be, you were a student. The 15 other lat movers in my class that didn't make that transition , they had the physical skills, it was just the mind set of coming from somewhere else in the Marine Corps where they had already earned their place. O yeah and 1st phase sucked, I' am sure everyone says it, but my class got broke the F&@! off.

And for you Jay: As far as giving advice on how fulfilling my job is. I'll hold off on a full assessment until I have more time under my belt, but so far I fucking love my job, and when I'am cold,wet, and sandy, I fucking hate it, but that's a weak comfort based comment.


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