# Sharia Law Coming To Libya



## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

So says the leader of the revolutionaries in Libya:



> *Libya's revolutionary leader calls for civil state*
> 
> By BEN HUBBARD and HADEEL AL-SHALCHI , 09.12.11, 09:26 PM EDT
> 
> ...



http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/09/12/general-ml-libya_8674107.html


It's pretty funny, because I could have sworn these guys were pro- Western, Democracy-driven, secular, Google-loving ordinary secular schmoes.


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## Boon (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm sure the people will love that change


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## Servimus (Sep 16, 2011)

When were the Rebels ever "secular"?

Also- Sharia law is not some static lawbook. It's not always a-la Taliban. Not saying it's my cup of tea though.


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## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

Servimus said:


> When were the Rebels ever "secular"?
> 
> Also- Sharia law is not some static lawbook. It's not always a-la Taliban. Not saying it's my cup of tea though.


You mean you were not aware of the total embrace of this "people's revolution" in Libya and the Middle East by American and European Progressives? Have you not seen the many Progressive rallies clamoring "solidarity" with Libya, Syria, and Egypt?







If you didn't notice all that, then you probably didn't notice the Far Left and Progressives in the American media calling anyone worried about the "Arab Spring" a fear monger:



> http://thinkprogress.org/security/2...in-debunks-right-wings-sharia-in-libya-claim/
> 
> Summary: John McCain (one of a handful of Right wing Progressives) debunks Conservative Fearmongering concerning Sharia in Libya



The George Soros-funded Center for American Progress has just released a report in which the enemy is "Islamophobia" and "fearmongering". It cites Glenn Beck, Fox News, and a few Jewish websites that spread hate through *"fearmongering".*

Keep your eyes open for that term. That's the new buzzword for 2012. *"Fearmongering".*

...

Not to be left behind by the trendiness of the moment, Foreign Policy magazine decided to pick up the Soros Progressive mantle.


> http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/26/fear_incorporated
> 
> Summary: Stephen Walt (International Relations professor at Harvard) has warned us that the danger is not "a vast Islamic conspiracy". Oh, no.* The real danger is a right wing conspiracy, enabled through "fearmongering".*



Of course, who better to slam the Conservative Americans than "Think Progress", who recently released a report comparing the threat of Islam to a puppy bite. I am not making this up:
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2...ess-than-from-dog-bites-or-lightning-strikes/

*Think Progress: Puppies Worse Than Islamic Radicalism:*


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## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

This whole Middle East and N. African revolution has been embraced by the Far Left and Progressives (including a few Republican Progressives) from the outset.



Servimus said:


> Also- Sharia law is not some static lawbook. It's not always a-la Taliban.



Would you care to expound on that statement? You kind of make it sound like you think it would be just awesome for somebody.

:confused::)


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## alibi (Sep 16, 2011)

JBS said:


> This whole Middle East and N. African revolution has been embraced by the Far Left and Progressives (including a few Republican Progressives) from the outset.
> 
> Would you care to expound on that statement? You kind of make it sound like you think it would be just awesome for somebody.
> 
> :confused::)



I think he means that Sharia doesn't automatically equal massive oppression like one saw in Afghanistan under the Taliban.  Sharia, to Muslims, is God's law; that's it.  It isn't an interpretation in and off itself.  So when someone says "Something something Sharia law" its about as descriptive as someone saying "Something something Biblical law".
That being said, I will wholehartedly endorse the fact that most Sharia-dominated countries are fucking hellish places to live (But that's the case with most countries who live under any sort of religious law).  And I have little doubt that this means that Libya will probably follow suit.

I also saw more than a few Right-Wingers supporting these revolutions (Usually something about How GWB's Middle East policy brought it about).  IMO, it transcends being an ideological point into simply being one where the naive attach themselves to something while everyone else waits to see the outcomes.

My $.02.


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## Servimus (Sep 16, 2011)

All I was getting at is that I didn't think that anyone ever thought these guys were secular. IMO- the Mubarak and Gaddhafi regimes were terrible and I'm glad that the Egyptian and Libyan people did away with them. What comes next is still to be seen and might even be worse. I express solidarity with these people in the sense that I think everyone on this planet should have the right to protest their government without getting shot at...



JBS said:


> Would you care to expound on that statement? You kind of make it sound like you think it would be just awesome for somebody.
> 
> :confused::)



There are several Muslim-majority countries with some sort of Sharia court system in place. Not all are like Afghanistan under the Taliban where music and TV are banned or whatever. I'm not a friggin Islamic legal scholar, but as I understand it, Sharia law is widely debated and it's up to interpretation. My muslim friend lives under "Sharia", but it's not a legal court system, it's something that goes on in his house. He's got all his hands and feet and I'd consider him no different from any other American guy I know. I don't know if he'd consider it "awesome" but he does his thing and him doing it doesn't prevent me from doing my thing nor does it threaten my way of life.

I don't know much about this stuff, but the two points I wanted to make was that 1) Sharia in one place is not necessarily sharia in another place, and 2) What is the significance of Sharia law being implemented in Libya? Is it not implemented in most Muslim countries? Apologies if the question is dumb.


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## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

I am not criticizing the "support" for ME reform.  I am critical of those who underestimate the threat of Islamic radicals, or their very real intent to attempt to co-opt what is happening. I'm also critical of the attempt to create new labels, such as "fearmonger", and the like.

The biggest and loudest mouths screaming "fearmonger" would be the first forcibly silenced by those they defend if they ever managed to get into power.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 16, 2011)

Wait I don't get what you are saying JBS, are you saying the lybians were/are better off with qaddafi? I mean what is your point? You are all about liberty, and these people seem to be fighting for theirs, maybe some are for Sharia, but you know what that's none of our business. Let them have it. I doubt it will last long.


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## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Wait I don't get what you are saying JBS, are you saying the lybians were/are better off with qaddafi? I mean what is your point? You are all about liberty, and these people seem to be fighting for theirs, maybe some are for Sharia, but you know what that's none of our business. Let them have it. I doubt it will last long.



It will be our business.

I am skeptical of spontaneous uprisings for "liberty" that just happened to pop up in all these different countries, all at the same time, after decades of the status quo.

Take inventory:
Libya
Egypt
Tunisia

Also, uprisings in Oman, Morocco, Jordan, Iraq Algeria and Yemen. There were also lesser, copycat uprisings in Sudan, the Western Sahara, Mauritania, Lebanon, and Kuwait.

Sure, if you look at Libya_ in a vacuum,_ or on a textbook page, it might sound like a spontaneous uprising. But if you take the regions on a whole- especially formerly stable nations like Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan, and even Lebanon- then it seems to me more is at work.  I would like to be sure that those organizing influences have friendly intent, and that they are fortified against co-opting.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 16, 2011)

Ok I now understand your point... It is something to think about.


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## pardus (Sep 16, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> but you know what that's none of our business.



They why are we bombing Gaddafi?  :confused:

Sharia is the law of our enemies. That the USA and the "free world" is helping to bring that to a country by the use of Military force (paid for by our tax money) is disgusting.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> They why are we bombing Gaddafi?  :confused:
> 
> Sharia is the law of our enemies. That the USA and the "free world" is helping to bring that to a country by the use of Military force (paid for by our tax money) is disgusting.



So it was better to allow a known terrorist to continue to oppress his people?


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## JBS (Sep 16, 2011)

The thing about revolutions- as I read on them in history- is they tend to break away from their planners.


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## pardus (Sep 16, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> So it was better to allow a known terrorist to continue to oppress his people?



That wasn't my point at all. We jumped on board the first thing we saw as an opportunity to get rid of Gaddafi. We did the same thing during WWII, jumped right into bed with Stalin to rid ourselves of Hitler. We've been paying for the latter decision since WWII ended. I don't want to see that same with this whole Arab uprising thing.

Just to be clear, Gaddafi's a prick who should swing from a pole.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> That wasn't my point at all. We jumped on board the first thing we saw as an opportunity to get rid of Gaddafi. We did the same thing during WWII, jumped right into bed with Stalin to rid ourselves of Hitler. We've been paying for the latter decision since WWII ended. I don't want to see that same with this whole Arab uprising thing.
> 
> Just to be clear, Gaddafi's a prick who should swing from a pole.



Well sometimes you have to choose the unknown evil to rid a known evil. If it wasn't for Stalin and all those Russians the world might look very different.


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## Headshot (Sep 16, 2011)

Dummies, have you no business sense at all.  Now is the time to open a chain of Shadowspear sponsored 7 Elevens over there.  We can make money from them and then use it to kill them later when they step on their dicks again.


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## QC (Sep 16, 2011)

I have a feeling that this will turn out well, better than the other nations where the Arab Spring burst out. Qadaffi raised the bogeyman of AQ as being behind the initial revolt, since proven false. The rebel leaders have taken a very quick look at their colonial past and urged Europe and the West to stay out or give what support is vital and no more, a point I have outlined here before. Sharia? By all means, establish what you will even if it is foreign to us who have separation of church and state. IMO most of the Arab world wants a better life and they should be given the chance to establish it. AQ and radical Islam has been irrelevant in this whole affair.


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## TH15 (Sep 16, 2011)

Gaddafi did help us hunt jihadists though from what I understand.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/110903/libya-cia-gaddafi-regime


> The CIA reported worked closely with Muammar Gaddafi's regime in the rendition of terror suspects to Libya, the Associated Press reports.
> It states that the CIA was one of numerous foreign intelligence services that used the Libyan regime when it needed to send people abroad for interrogation.
> The information is based on documents found by Human Rights Watch workers at the office of Gaddafi's former spy chief in Tripoli.
> According to the papers found in Tripoli, the CIA abducted suspected militants and sent them to Libya from 2002 to 2004, BBC reports.



It seems a little similar to the situation in Iran in 1979.. and we all know how that's working out for us right now.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 16, 2011)

TH15 said:


> Gaddafi did help us hunt jihadists though from what I understand.
> http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/110903/libya-cia-gaddafi-regime
> 
> 
> It seems a little similar to the situation in Iran in 1979.. and we all know how that's working out for us right now.



Cause that makes up for Lockerbie!


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## policemedic (Sep 17, 2011)

JBS said:


> The George Soros-funded Center for American Progress has just released a report a work of fiction in which the enemy is "Islamophobia" and "fearmongering". It cites Glenn Beck, Fox News, and a few Jewish websites that spread hate through *"fearmongering". * tell the truth about Islamic terrorists.
> 
> \



Fixed it for ya 

Sarcasm aside, I agree with your post 100%.


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## QC (Sep 17, 2011)

JBS said:


> It will be our business.
> 
> I am skeptical of spontaneous uprisings for "liberty" that just happened to pop up in all these different countries, all at the same time, after decades of the status quo.
> 
> ...



I think you need to study the history of the region a little.


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## JBS (Sep 17, 2011)

Why don't you fill me in what you are referring to?  I like to think I'm vaguely familiar with the region and its history.


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## QC (Sep 17, 2011)

The Arab Spring was spontaneous and not the work of anything more than frustration. With the space available it's not possible to give a complete précis historically country by country. Suffice to say that the Arab world was ruled by the Ottoman Empire from 1516 to 1830 when the imperial powers took over, 1830 to 1948. This comprised England, France, Italy and to ainor degree Spain. The US has been more of an observer with little presence compared to the European countries. So it's plain to see that for over 400 years they have been ruled by others. Nationalism & religion has waxed and waned over this time and these influences have shaped the path to see the way clear of this. 
My first impression of the uprising was rhat nothing much will change and to a certain extent this is true with limited reforms in most of the countries where demonstrations occurred. Lybia looks to be different with genuine change taking place. They are ridding themselves  of a despot and deserve to be encouraged to get on their feet to create something better.


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## Manolito (Sep 17, 2011)

QC as you know I am trying to learn but this is a tough place to understand. I thought spontaneous uprisings were all funded and lead by guys wearing Hawaian shirts and khaki pants with big bank accounts in the local economy. Has it changed? Our Guys and Girls out of Langley started every spontanious uprising while funding them and my Dad always said if you lay with Dogs you get Fleas and that is where we are at right now in my opinion. Any help in understanding would be appreciated from all.
Bill


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## JBS (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks, QC.

I see things from a radically different perspective, and I put far less stock into the historical connection than you do. Of course history is a factor in how these nations arrived at their current states, but there are some very specific, very clear factors to these events that absolutely do not fit with any "spontaneous" eruption of demands for liberation.

I'll cite some specific examples when I have time. And again, the only reason it matters to me is because I'm not convinced "Hawaiian shirts" have much to do with it all. To me, it appears contrived, forced and cultivated in part, by NGO's, privately wealthy individuals, and a few people who are very experienced in this sort of thing.  The people I'm thinking of like to find boils in the world, and then they come along and lance them when the time is right.


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## QC (Sep 18, 2011)

Cheers guys, just to stay on topic, a young Tunisian named Mohammed Bouazizi started the whole thing. He was, I believe, selling oranges without a permit. The cops gave him a hard time and he was at the end of his tether, so much so that he doused himself with gasoline and set fire to himself. This is what started it and within days President Zine el Abadine bin Ali had fled the country. The uprising spread to Egypt and then elsewhere.


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## pardus (Sep 18, 2011)

I bet that license wasn't looking so hard to obtain about 30 seconds post ignition.

So a Tunisian orange seller and a can of gasoline walk into a bar...

Too soon?


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## QC (Sep 18, 2011)

BWAHAHAHAHA!!


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## Scotth (Sep 19, 2011)

We never had better middle east relations then after Desert Storm when we went in and freed Kuwait and then left the situation for the most part just as quickly. Why shouldn't we expected a similar reaction from what went on in Libya?

Like QC already stated the whole uprising has been a reputation of what Osama an AQ has been preaching.

For a very small price we have gotten rid of a man and regime that actively attacked and killed American civilians and military members.

Even worse case scenario and Libyan's decide to attack us some where down the road. It is no worse then what we had with the old regime.

It's not like Egypt where our relationship with the leadership was great but he treated his people like shit.  We had horrible relations with Libya and he treated his people like shit.  We aren't losing anything getting rid of Momar.


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## JBS (Dec 24, 2015)

A little blast from the past...

Remember when those of us who predicted that the Arab Spring would result in Islamic Radicals co-opting the movement were labeled "fearmongers"?

As I read this thread from 2011, I'm reminded of the way labeling, or "branding" was used to silence opposition to this ludicrous endeavor.  Branding was used with great success repeatedly by Progressive Liberals during this time.   



JBS said:


> I am not criticizing the "support" for ME reform.  I am critical of those who underestimate the threat of Islamic radicals, or their very real intent to attempt to co-opt what is happening. I'm also critical of the attempt to create new labels, such as "fearmonger", and the like.
> 
> The biggest and loudest mouths screaming "fearmonger" would be the first forcibly silenced by those they defend if they ever managed to get into power.





JBS said:


> It will be our business.
> 
> I am skeptical of spontaneous uprisings for "liberty" that just happened to pop up in all these different countries, all at the same time, after decades of the status quo.
> 
> ...


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