# Realities of NG SF Service: Questions



## A23553255 (Apr 10, 2014)

First of all, I just want to thank everyone who contributes to this forum. I joined and introduced myself at the end of last year (15DEC2014) and continuously use ShadowSpear as a vital reference in learning more about your community.

My question for the community is in regard to the realities of balancing a civilian career and a family, while also focusing on being a member of the SF community. I am currently in a doctoral program (Psychology) and upon graduation hope to secure a NG 18X contract. God willing, I hope to one-day serve on a guard unit as an 18D.

As I prepare myself mentally and physically for the process, I am wondering what it will truly be like to balance between a civilian and SF life. My questions are as follows:


From what I know, SFQC for 18D takes approximately 2 years to complete. Also, it takes approximately 1 year to get through BCT/AIT, AB, SFOC, and SFAS. In turn, it’s about a 3-year process before the opportunity to make it to a team. Based on others’ experiences, is this accurate? (This will help me accurately gauge when I will be able to secure a civilian career, as I intend to join immediately following graduation)

What type commitment is required outside of civilian work (nights/weekends) in order to remain a valuable asset to the rest of your ODA?

Finally, to what degree do civilian and SF responsibilities interfere with one another? In other words, does having successful career in SF come at the expense of a successful civilian career? (This will help me accurately select the type of civilian career I choose…some employers want 65 hours a week from their employees, some want 40)

Thank you in advance for any guidance. I apologize for the vague nature of my questions. I am hoping to receive more of personal opinions/experiences than concrete facts.


Sincerely,

-NorthCarolinian


----------



## Muppet (Apr 10, 2014)

Paging @surgicalcric...

F.M.


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 10, 2014)

NorthCarolinian said:


> From what I know, SFQC for 18D takes approximately 2 years to complete. Also, it takes approximately 1 year to get through BCT/AIT, AB, SFOC, and SFAS. In turn, it’s about a 3-year process before the opportunity to make it to a team. Based on others’ experiences, is this accurate? (This will help me accurately gauge when I will be able to secure a civilian career, as I intend to join immediately following graduation)
> 
> What type commitment is required outside of civilian work (nights/weekends) in order to remain a valuable asset to the rest of your ODA?
> 
> Finally, to what degree do civilian and SF responsibilities interfere with one another? In other words, does having successful career in SF come at the expense of a successful civilian career? (This will help me accurately select the type of civilian career I choose…some employers want 65 hours a week from their employees, some want 40)


1.). It takes the average 18D student approximately 24-28 months depending on language.  This is barring any recycles.

2.) This is dependent on your position on the team (senior vs junior), the type of ODA you are on, team leadership's focus, mission focus, deployment cycle, training schedule, etc...  Even when I was a simple NG team guy I would put about 8-10 hours/wk of time into my team duties.  As a medic you will also be responsible for all of the personnel issues (pay issues, promotions, ERB, iPerms, etc) on the team.  Every time someone's kid gets the sniffles you get a call, their pets included... 

3.) Again it depends, on how involved you wish to be and how much training time you want/your team sergeant puts on you.  When you first get to an ODA the learning begins in earnest.  My advice on training is take what is offered even if you don't care to go.  There will be courses your team sergeant will ask you to attend that you don't care for but you are there for the needs of the team, not to add more badges to the uniform.  Some guys get passed over for coveted schools cause their motivation is lacking and/or they get a selfish streak.  Don't be that guy.

It is a balancing act indeed to attempt a professional career and be an active team guy in NG SF.  Most guys either work for themselves, contract as a PMC, or work in public safety (EMS, FD, LEO) in order to have a flexible schedule.

Best of luck, 25m targets one at a time, train your mind to train your body, police up the guy next to ya, and never quit.

Crip


----------



## A23553255 (Apr 11, 2014)

Perfect. Thank you for the timely response and insight. I truly appreciate it and know it will be useful moving forward in my journey.

Sounds like a time-intensive role, but I love a challenge and really like the idea of being a guy that my teammates can rely on downrange and stateside.

P.S.: I'm not sure what that last word means..."quit"? Doesn't seem to be in my vocabulary...oh well. 

-NorthCarolinian


----------



## 18C4V (Apr 11, 2014)

In order to be an accrediated 18D to be deployable in the guard, one needs to be current in SOCMSSC, MPT (2 or 4 week), and NTM (40 hours). Right now, we only have one 18D in the company who meets that criteria. My 18D is the next closest guy who is almost there and he just needs the NTM, so if you don't have a flexible job to stay current as an 18D, it will be difficult to stay current as noted in my NG SF Company.


----------



## A23553255 (Apr 11, 2014)

18C4V said:


> In order to be an accrediated 18D to be deployable in the guard, one needs to be current in SOCMSSC, MPT (2 or 4 week), and NTM (40 hours). Right now, we only have one 18D in the company who meets that criteria. My 18D is the next closest guy who is almost there and he just needs the NTM, so if you don't have a flexible job to stay current as an 18D, it will be difficult to stay current as noted in my NG SF Company.



Wow, that seems like it could be a pretty significant barrier for most guys balancing two careers. Based on a little research, it looks like those courses need to be completed every 2 years (with the exception of MPT, which is 2-4 years). I guess that's not the most demanding cycle ever, but could certainly be challenging to maintain if not on AD.

Thank you for the information.

-NorthCarolinian


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 11, 2014)

NorthCarolinian said:


> Wow, that seems like it could be a pretty significant barrier for most guys balancing two careers. Based on a little research, it looks like those courses need to be completed every 2 years (with the exception of MPT, which is 2-4 years). I guess that's not the most demanding cycle ever, but could certainly be challenging to maintain if not on AD.
> 
> Thank you for the information.
> 
> -NorthCarolinian



If it's important to you you will find time.  I assure you it's important to the rest of the guys that the 18D stayed current.  I am thankful my team sergeant, who was an 18D before making E8, was not only current on paper but had his shit together, not so long ago.

NG SF is not a part time commitment; it's a full time commitment for which you aren't monetarily reimbursed.


----------



## Etype (Apr 12, 2014)

NorthCarolinian said:


> P.S.: I'm not sure what that last word means..."quit"? Doesn't seem to be in my vocabulary...oh well.


You haven't even begun to be tested yet- don't speak too soon.


----------



## A23553255 (Apr 12, 2014)

Your points are well taken. This is precisely the type of reality check/information I was hoping to receive from this community.

Thank you again.


----------



## 1345 (Apr 27, 2014)

Currently all languages are six months. From the date of enlistment to the date of graduation it was a two years and three months journey and I'm not a delta. However none of my delta classmates from osut have graduated as of yet. One that has never recycled will graduate in August. If you already know one of the core languages, you could take the dlpt and skip language providing you get a 1/1. Either way. It will be a very long journey.


----------



## A23553255 (May 5, 2014)

1345 said:


> Currently all languages are six months. From the date of enlistment to the date of graduation it was a two years and three months journey and I'm not a delta. However none of my delta classmates from osut have graduated as of yet. One that has never recycled will graduate in August. If you already know one of the core languages, you could take the dlpt and skip language providing you get a 1/1. Either way. It will be a very long journey.



1345,

Thank you for your thoughtful response, that is very helpful. If you don't mind me asking, what is your MOS? I am interested to hear if there are differences between MOS in the time commitment required outside of when you are activated (i.e., time spent focusing on SF responsibilities during nights/weekends around a civilian job).

I now understand that the initial training process is a long journey. In turn, I am interested to know if one MOS is more manageable than another when dealing with a demanding civilian job. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Finally, please excuse any indication that my questions and concerns are a sign of low commitment. I am fully committed to accomplishing this goal, I only hope to do so in a way that will make me most effective to those I may one day train and serve with.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## x SF med (May 5, 2014)

NorthCarolinian said:


> 1345,
> 
> Thank you for your thoughtful response, that is very helpful. If you don't mind me asking, what is your MOS? *I am interested to hear if there are differences between MOS in the time commitment required outside of when you are activated (i.e., time spent focusing on SF responsibilities during nights/weekends around a civilian job).*
> 
> ...



Guard SF requires as much or more commitment as AD, you get paid for drills/AT, but need to keep your own skills/competencies/drive/motivation between those paid commitments.  If you're a Delta - that means getting the needed quals to be deployable at all times, and practicing the needed skills...  and getting the schools you need to advance your SF career, and take care of your Team and plan your kit, and inventory the Team Med gear, and ... and... and...  it cannot be done one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer...  Any MOS will have it's own vagaries, I can only speak to AD 18B/18D...  and from watching friends NG 18D, 18F, 18Z....   it's another more than full time job, done for love, not for money...  balancing that with your $$job and family can be tougher than anything you'll ever imagine.  It's cost more than one guy his family and his civvy job...  be prepared to sacrifice something to reach the goal.


----------



## A23553255 (May 5, 2014)

x SF med said:


> Guard SF requires as much or more commitment as AD, you get paid for drills/AT, but need to keep your own skills/competencies/drive/motivation between those paid commitments.  If you're a Delta - that means getting the needed quals to be deployable at all times, and practicing the needed skills...  and getting the schools you need to advance your SF career, and take care of your Team and plan your kit, and inventory the Team Med gear, and ... and... and...  it cannot be done one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer...  Any MOS will have it's own vagaries, I can only speak to AD 18B/18D...  and from watching friends NG 18D, 18F, 18Z....   it's another more than full time job, done for love, not for money...  balancing that with your $$job and family can be tougher than anything you'll ever imagine.  It's cost more than one guy his family and his civvy job...  be prepared to sacrifice something to reach the goal.



Thank you, x SF med. Your response means a lot to me. Loud and clear. I've received my answer.

Thanks again to this community, I feel that everyone has assisted me in taking a step in the right mental direction.


----------



## MOTOMETO (May 23, 2014)

Lol ...


----------



## freeflyguy (Sep 5, 2014)

surgicalcric said:


> If it's important to you you will find time.  I assure you it's important to the rest of the guys that the 18D stayed current.  I am thankful my team sergeant, who was an 18D before making E8, was not only current on paper but had his shit together, not so long ago.
> 
> NG SF is not a part time commitment; it's a full time commitment for which you aren't monetarily reimbursed.



Hit the nail on the head there. You definitely won't be doing just one weekend a month, if that's how your unit drills. Along with that, any good medic is going to be in and out of the unit to get work done that needs to be done, and chances are you won't be paid for it.


----------



## Brill (Sep 6, 2014)

As SC mentioned, albeit briefly, the best S1 I've encountered to date was an 18D.  Not sure how you guys learn to navigate through all that crap, but I'm glad you've mastered it just like your med skills!


----------



## x SF med (Sep 6, 2014)

lindy said:


> As SC mentioned, albeit briefly, the best S1 I've encountered to date was an 18D.  Not sure how you guys learn to navigate through all that crap, but I'm glad you've mastered it just like your med skills!



18D is the S1 and S4(med) for the Team...  no choice in learning it, if you want your Team to get the schools, promotions and kudos they are due, and to keep the 18B's records in line, since they can barely write anyway:wall:


edit for clarity - the 18D's portion is only for med S-4 items that require code R&Q clearance and the paperwork for expenditure or expiration...  plus the bandages and stuff....  the non R&Q items do get routed through the 18C who is the assigned S-4 for the team.


----------



## A23553255 (Sep 11, 2014)

Thank you all for the continued insight.

Although I hope this thread has informed others beyond my initial question, I did want to provide a brief update since I originally posted the question.

Based on everyone's informative insight, as well as information I have received from others currently involved in the process, I am preparing myself for a career dedicated to the thing I believe in most. Specifically, when the time comes, if I am blessed with the opportunity of an 18-series contract, I will fully dedicate myself to the process and if one day my dream comes true, I will always remember that my commitment comes first in life. If things are sacrificed, such as a civilian career, it won't be the first one and I'm damn thankful that others have made that decision.

In regard to MOS, I know that all roles require immense dedication and I am willing to play any part that is needed by the unit.

Any other NG information and tips are welcome. Thanks again for the reality check.

-NC


----------



## SeanKM (Sep 20, 2014)

NG SF sounds like an awesome place to be... 

Is it still possible to stay as busy as you want (schools, deployments) in Guard SF with the drawdown?


----------



## surgicalcric (Nov 16, 2014)

SeanKM said:


> NG SF sounds like an awesome place to be...
> 
> Is it still possible to stay as busy as you want (schools, deployments) in Guard SF with the drawdown?



Not as busy as many of us stayed during both wars but fear not, we will be back there shortly.  I enlisted in 2003 and have stayed busy enough to never go back to work at my fire dept.  Now that I am retiring I dont know what I will do...


----------



## 18C4V (Dec 6, 2014)

SeanKM said:


> NG SF sounds like an awesome place to be...
> 
> Is it still possible to stay as busy as you want (schools, deployments) in Guard SF with the drawdown?


 
It depends on wether or not your unit has 6 teams or not. In California, we have more guys then schools slots and askers/taskers. Last deployment, the majority of the  guys who went were guys who did not have a combat deployment.


----------

