# NROTC



## Deadpool (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi guys, First off I want to let you know that the reason why I'm posting here is because I respect your opinions like no other, in regards to SOF forums and military forums in general I truly believe this website is among the best if not the very best. 

 Basically, I'm 17 years old at the moment, and a Senior in High School. I'm in the process of applying to Colleges, and/or enlisting in the Military. My dream is to serve in a Special Operations unit one day - preferably a SEAL Team. I understand how difficult this can be, and I understand how much more difficult it can be for an Officer trying to go through the pipeline. But to state the obvious, I'm committed to making it possible. 

In regards to NROTC, and ROTC, from what you have seen and heard is it as hard to get a Scholarship as it has been made out to be? In other words, do you have to be an A student, a student-athlete? And one final question, I understand that if I were to go that route, I'd be coming out as an Ensign/Second Lt. I know that I'd be eligible to go to BUD/s, although it's incredibly competitive, but I'm not sure about the Rangers. Would I be able to go to RASP II as a Second LT? 

Thank you, any help is appreciated.


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## Ranger Psych (Sep 24, 2012)

Short answer, No.

You have to be a 1LT elsewhere, or otherwise fall into the realm of "You were a PV2 through SSG/SFC in Regiment, went to OCS, and the BC/RCO sign off on you coming right back from OCS to take a platoon in Regiment", to get to be a Platoon Leader in Regiment.


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## Deadpool (Sep 24, 2012)

Ranger Psych said:


> Short answer, No.
> 
> You have to be a 1LT elsewhere, or otherwise fall into the realm of "You were a PV2 through SSG/SFC in Regiment, went to OCS, and the BC/RCO sign off on you coming right back from OCS to take a platoon in Regiment", to get to be a Platoon Leader in Regiment.


 
Thanks for the help.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 24, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> Hi guys, First off I want to let you know that the reason why I'm posting here is because I respect your opinions like no other, in regards to SOF forums and military forums in general I truly believe this website is among the best if not the very best.
> 
> Basically, I'm 17 years old at the moment, and a Senior in High School. I'm in the process of applying to Colleges, and/or enlisting in the Military. My dream is to serve in a Special Operations unit one day - preferably a SEAL Team. I understand how difficult this can be, and I understand how much more difficult it can be for an Officer trying to go through the pipeline. But to state the obvious, I'm committed to making it possible.
> 
> ...


 
You want to "be a Ranger" or you "want to go to Ranger School?"  Those are related, but are two different things.  IIRC there were a couple of SEALS in my Airborne class who were en route to Ranger School (this was many, many years ago) but they were NOT en route to assignment to a Ranger unit.

I have frequently heard about members of other SOF services attending Ranger School, I've got to imagine that if you actually follow through on your stated desire to be in the military, make it through commissioning, and actually become a SEAL, you would be have a high likelihood of being able to get a Ranger School slot at some point in your career.


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## Deadpool (Sep 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> You want to "be a Ranger" or you "want to go to Ranger School?" Those are related, but are two different things. IIRC there were a couple of SEALS in my Airborne class who were en route to Ranger School (this was many, many years ago) but they were NOT en route to assignment to a Ranger unit.
> 
> I have frequently heard about members of other SOF services attending Ranger School, I've got to imagine that if you actually follow through on your stated desire to be in the military, make it through commissioning, and actually become a SEAL, you would be have a high likelihood of being able to get a Ranger School slot at some point in your career.


 
I'm sorry I didn't specify, I meant I wanted to become a Ranger - as in the 75th Ranger Regiment.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 24, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> I'm sorry I didn't specify, I meant I wanted to become a Ranger - as in the 75th Ranger Regiment.


 
OK- becoming a SEAL and serving in the Rangers are two completely different things.  In fact, they are almost (but not necessarily always) mutually exclusive.  You're probably going to have to pick one or the other.


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## CDG (Sep 24, 2012)

Something else to keep in mind here, and I don't know how this works in other SOF units, but as an O at BUD/S you get one shot.  Whether you quit, are dropped for failing a performance test, or get dropped for a medical reason, you only have that one shot.  And as you already said, it is EXTREMELY difficult to get an O slot at BUD/S.  It will be even harder coming from an NROTC program as opposed to the Naval Academy.  Unless things have changed, they allot X number(think like single digits in a class of 300+) of slots per class for Os from NROTC programs.  That is for the entire country.  So you had better have shit-hot PT scores, Dean's list grades, and something else going for you if you submit a package as an O from an NROTC program.  Should you decide you want to be a SEAL, going as an enlisted guy may be a better option.  Easier to get in, and you can attempt BUD/S again in the future should you not make it through the first time.

DISCLAIMER: This is how it was when I was at BUD/S in early 2008.  Entirely possible that things have changed across the board since then.


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## Deadpool (Sep 24, 2012)

CDG said:


> Something else to keep in mind here, and I don't know how this works in other SOF units, but as an O at BUD/S you get one shot. Whether you quit, are dropped for failing a performance test, or get dropped for a medical reason, you only have that one shot. And as you already said, it is EXTREMELY difficult to get an O slot at BUD/S. It will be even harder coming from an NROTC program as opposed to the Naval Academy. Unless things have changed, they allot X number(think like single digits in a class of 300+) of slots per class for Os from NROTC programs. That is for the entire country. So you had better have shit-hot PT scores, Dean's list grades, and something else going for you if you submit a package as an O from an NROTC program. Should you decide you want to be a SEAL, going as an enlisted guy may be a better option. Easier to get in, and you can attempt BUD/S again in the future should you not make it through the first time.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: This is how it was when I was at BUD/S in early 2008. Entirely possible that things have changed across the board since then.


 
I would prefer to enlist, but there's a reason as to why I'm not. If I can't get a billet though, what happens then? Do I go to the fleet, then hope to go to BUD/s? And If I were to get a billet, would I train with a SEAL motivator or at least go to the BUD/s prep school?

Thanks.


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## CDG (Sep 24, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> I would prefer to enlist, but there's a reason as to why I'm not. If I can't get a billet though, what happens then? Do I go to the fleet, then hope to go to BUD/s? And If I were to get a billet, would I train with a SEAL motivator or at least go to the BUD/s prep school?
> 
> Thanks.


 
You can attempt to get to BUD/S from the Fleet, but it is very difficult for Os to do that.  The Fleet prefers its officers to be on ships doing surface warfare as opposed to rolling around in the sand.  Furthermore, as a new O in the Fleet your ability to PT will be less than zero.  I do not know if Os have SEAL Motivator access.  I also don't know about the BUD/S prep course.  That was just coming on-line when I was in.


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 24, 2012)

Os do go through BUD/S prep in GLKS.  However, it's not all PT driven like the enlisted guys.  They also do admin/paperwork shit as well.  I'm not sure about the specifics, but a very good friend of mine was in BUD/S prep while I was in GLKS and he said the Os aren't always around during their PT.  
Also, CDG is correct about being shit hot if you want a slot as an O.  Do you play team sports?  Baseball, lacrosse, water polo?  
Attrition rate for Os in BUD/S hovers around 20%...yes, I said that correctly.


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## Deadpool (Sep 24, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Os do go through BUD/S prep in GLKS.  However, it's not all PT driven like the enlisted guys.  They also do admin/paperwork shit as well.  I'm not sure about the specifics, but a very good friend of mine was in BUD/S prep while I was in GLKS and he said the Os aren't always around during their PT.
> Also, CDG is correct about being shit hot if you want a slot as an O.  Do you play team sports?  Baseball, lacrosse, water polo?
> Attrition rate for Os in BUD/S hovers around 20%...yes, I said that correctly.



I qualified for the junior olympics (in Basketball) when I was around 14 or so, ever since I've been training in MMA, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and Boxing.


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## Centermass (Sep 25, 2012)

While it's admirable that you want to go the "O" route, assignments as an "O" for any SOF billet are few and extremely competitive. Many did their time as enlisted, got out, went to college and then commissioned, through an ROTC program or similar and some have even done it while still on active duty and sought out their commissions going that route.



Ranger Psych said:


> You have to be a 1LT elsewhere, or otherwise fall into the realm of "You were a PV2 through SSG/SFC in Regiment, went to OCS, and the BC/RCO sign off on you coming right back from OCS to take a platoon in Regiment", to get to be a Platoon Leader in Regiment.


 
To expound on Ranger Psych and Marauder 6, from an Army standpoint, as an officer starting out, with no prior service, you will have to branch accordingly, which you may or may not have some control over. The latter is usually the case. In the event you do, an example being branched as an Infantry Officer, you go to the Infantry Officers Basic Course, then the Basic Airborne Course (Jump School) and then Ranger School, and successfully complete them all. Then do your time as a Platoon Leader, move up as a Company Executive Officer as a 1st Lt. The time frame for this is usually between 2 and 3 years. 

Once you get some leadership time and experience under your belt, validation will need to come from someone in your chain, who has served in an SOF billet, and will have to endorse you through a letter of recommendation to get the ball rolling. Infantry is not the only route, others would be as a Medical Officer (Surgeon) Intelligence Officer, Field Artillery Officer (FIST) Signal Corps Officer (Communications) to name a few.

Another route is going to college first, funded on your dime through Pell Grants, Student Loans etc and going in enlisted with an Option 40. Make it through Rasp, get assigned to the Regiment, do your time, pay your dues and work your way up as an Non Commissioned Officer (Team Leader, Squad Leader) and apply to OCS later on while still on active duty. Time frame for this is around 4-6 years. 

You have a greater chance of not only serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment not just once, but again as a Platoon Leader and possibly, a Company Commander. Many alumni then come back again later on, to the Regiment again as Battalion Executive Officers, then get a Battalion Command and some eventually as the Commander of the Ranger Training Brigade and the top level assignment as "THE" Regimental Commander. 

In the event you wind up being an "Average Performer" regardless of what service you choose or what route you decide, forget all the above because it will not happen.


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## CDG (Sep 25, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> I qualified for the junior olympics (in Basketball) when I was around 14 or so, ever since I've been training in MMA, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai and Boxing.


 
I believe the point SkrewzLoose was trying to make was that having a standout collegiate athletic career is one of those things that can help set you apart from the other candidates.  Frankly, no one that's reviewing your BUD/S package is going to give a shit about what you did at 14, or that you claim to have studied all these martial arts.  Substantive proof of athletic achievement in the immediate past is going to count when it comes time to submit a package.


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## Deadpool (Sep 25, 2012)

Centermass said:


> While it's admirable that you want to go the "O" route, assignments as an "O" for any SOF billet are few and extremely competitive. Many did their time as enlisted, got out, went to college and then commissioned, through an ROTC program or similar and some have even done it while still on active duty and sought out their commissions going that route.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I would much rather enlist to be frank, It's just that there is a situation that is in a way "restricting" me.


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## Deadpool (Sep 25, 2012)

CDG said:


> I believe the point SkrewzLoose was trying to make was that having a standout collegiate athletic career is one of those things that can help set you apart from the other candidates. Frankly, no one that's reviewing your BUD/S package is going to give a shit about what you did at 14, or that you claim to have studied all these martial arts. Substantive proof of athletic achievement in the immediate past is going to count when it comes time to submit a package.


I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just that is the extent of my HS "Athletic career". But if I were to play a sport, for example Wrestling or Boxing in College - you're saying it would definitely benefit me in the long term, which is getting a BUD/s Billet. Am I right?


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## CDG (Sep 25, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> I didn't mean to offend anyone, it's just that is the extent of my HS "Athletic career". But if I were to play a sport, for example Wrestling or Boxing in College - you're saying it would definitely benefit me in the long term, which is getting a BUD/s Billet. Am I right?


 
I'm not saying it would "definitely" benefit you.  I am saying that anything you can do to make yourself a better candidate is going to be a good idea.  Being a solid athlete in a physically demanding sport will show something to whoever is reviewing your packet, but at the end of the day there are no guarantees.


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## Deadpool (Sep 25, 2012)

CDG said:


> I'm not saying it would "definitely" benefit you. I am saying that anything you can do to make yourself a better candidate is going to be a good idea. Being a solid athlete in a physically demanding sport will show something to whoever is reviewing your packet, but at the end of the day there are no guarantees.


Understood, Thanks for the help.


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 25, 2012)

CDG said:


> I believe the point SkrewzLoose was trying to make was that having a standout collegiate athletic career is one of those things that can help set you apart from the other candidates. Frankly, no one that's reviewing your BUD/S package is going to give a shit about what you did at 14, or that you claim to have studied all these martial arts. Substantive proof of athletic achievement in the immediate past is going to count when it comes time to submit a package.


Exactly.  
Also helps with the whole team building/being a leader thing, so I've heard.  Take a look at college athletes and then take a look at everyone else on the campus...


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## Deadpool (Sep 28, 2012)

If you don't mind me asking, and as far as SEAL Teams go, how long can an Officer stay operational at the Platoon level? If I happen to become a SEAL, I would want to serve as much time as humanly possible on the tactical side of it - if I went the Officer route would I have a significant amount of time to serve on the Platoon level? Thanks, any advice is appreciated.


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't know the answer to that question, but my guess would be "less than if you enlisted".  With that being said, as a 17 year old, you might want to remember your 25m targets vice how much HSLD shit you'll get to do as a SEAL O.  You could change your mind a million times between now and when you graduate HS, college, OCS, etc.
Also, you keep saying there's something preventing you from enlisting, so why is the Officer route an "if"?


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## jonnieguns (Sep 29, 2012)

My commissioning source was NROTC as a Marine Option. I applied for the scholarship in high school; it's much more competitive to earn the scholarship during college. It's been a while since finished the program, but let me know if you have any specific questions about it. I had a couple friends get a school seat at BUD/S.


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## Totentanz (Sep 29, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, how competitive is the Marine Option for NROTC cadets?


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 29, 2012)

Totentanz said:


> Just out of curiosity, how competitive is the Marine Option for NROTC cadets?


I was doing some research on the STA-21 (Seaman to Admiral) program through the Navy about a year ago.  It's essentially: apply > get chosen > Navy pays for college, you enroll in said college ROTC > commission when finished with school.  A few guys used it and when the USMC route and made it sound EXTREMELY competitive.  That's just what I've read on the interwebz from people who claimed to have gone that route though, no personal experience.


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## jonnieguns (Sep 30, 2012)

Totentanz said:


> Just out of curiosity, how competitive is the Marine Option for NROTC cadets?


 
NROTC uses the term "midshipmen". I applied in high school with a 3.6 GPA, a varisty letter in ice hockey, several dozen hours of volunteer work, and some family military history. That's just to give you an idea of what was acceptable back in 2003-4, but now the Marine Corps is shrinking, so they can afford to be a bit more selective. Also,, like I mentioned before it's much more competitive in college. The same attributes apply, but those guys have a high first-class PFT and a GPA closer to 4.0.


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## Z-man (Oct 3, 2012)

Deadpool said:


> Hi guys, First off I want to let you know that the reason why I'm posting here is because I respect your opinions like no other, in regards to SOF forums and military forums in general I truly believe this website is among the best if not the very best.
> 
> Basically, I'm 17 years old at the moment, and a Senior in High School. I'm in the process of applying to Colleges, and/or enlisting in the Military. My dream is to serve in a Special Operations unit one day - preferably a SEAL Team. I understand how difficult this can be, and I understand how much more difficult it can be for an Officer trying to go through the pipeline. But to state the obvious, I'm committed to making it possible.
> 
> ...


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