# Heart Rates and Fitness



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 9, 2020)

I was somewhat surprised that there was not already a thread on this topic.

As a rule, how do we feel about the HR training zones and the currently generally accepted calculations?

220-age = Max HR.

Max HR x 70% = Optimum Fat Burn
Max HR x 85% = Optimum Cardio 

As I get more comfortable on the Peloton I find myself easily getting up to the 85% range.  Am I really just turning into a 'fit fat guy' and am I better to adjust the resistance of the bike to keep me in that 70% zone so that I am burning the right calories to lose weight?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

HR relative to burning fat is not fixed:

The Fat Burning Zone Myth: Don't Be Fooled

I found myself to be most successful with more HIIT and less "cardio zone" work...

Let us know what works best for you.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I found myself to be most successful with more HIIT and less "cardio zone" work...


I'll do some reading on that.  I see the HIIT classes on Peloton but have not tried them yet.

ETA - I did Kendall's 20 Minute HIIT class just now....really liked it!  Focused on my pedal speed rather than constantly monitoring HR.  
Her classes are more difficult; typically I run about 10 points lower in resistance than she demands, but I find myself catching up with her from time-to-time.

Tomorrow I will do a 30 HIIT class....time seems to go by faster too.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Mar 29, 2022)

Anyone else feel HR monitors on smart watches aren't very accurate?  I have the Garmin Instinct and feel I'm not using it correctly or it's just not accurate.  Why is it that I'm doing sprints and I'm panting for my life and the HR says like 140 BPM, but I do a good moderate jog at about a 8:30 min/mile pace and it says 180?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 29, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Anyone else feel HR monitors on smart watches aren't very accurate?  I have the Garmin Instinct and feel I'm not using it correctly or it's just not accurate.  Why is it that I'm doing sprints and I'm panting for my life and the HR says like 140 BPM, but I do a good moderate jog at about a 8:30 min/mile pace and it says 180?


Might be your fit?  I’ve used the Apple watch for years and have been pretty impressed (I will typically do a 10 sec pulse check).  Now I use the Garmin Fenix 6, LOVE it.  I noticed the biggest difference after I stop working out and go into recover.  Sometimes it takes a few minutes to get back on track.


----------



## CQB (Mar 29, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Anyone else feel HR monitors on smart watches aren't very accurate?  I have the Garmin Instinct and feel I'm not using it correctly or it's just not accurate.  Why is it that I'm doing sprints and I'm panting for my life and the HR says like 140 BPM, but I do a good moderate jog at about a 8:30 min/mile pace and it says 180?


I have an analogue watch from last century; monitor pulse over 10 seconds multiply by 6, voila! The 220 minus age is a good indicator as I just checked the equation for maximum heartrate & it was pretty spot on.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 30, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'll do some reading on that.  I see the HIIT classes on Peloton but have not tried them yet.
> 
> ETA - I did Kendall's 20 Minute HIIT class just now....really liked it!  Focused on my pedal speed rather than constantly monitoring HR.
> Her classes are more difficult; typically I run about 10 points lower in resistance than she demands, but I find myself catching up with her from time-to-time.
> ...



Her metal ride is pretty good. She does a 20 and 30 minute variety.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 30, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Anyone else feel HR monitors on smart watches aren't very accurate?  I have the Garmin Instinct and feel I'm not using it correctly or it's just not accurate.  Why is it that I'm doing sprints and I'm panting for my life and the HR says like 140 BPM, but I do a good moderate jog at about a 8:30 min/mile pace and it says 180?



I do not know if you listen to the One's Ready podcast (or watch the YT vids).  They've had a trainer on there (Taylor Starch), he's talked about inaccuracies of HR monitors and other ways to assess your 'zone' better than relying on your watch.

That said, I just ordered a Suunto 5 so we'll see how it does.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 30, 2022)

@Dimethylamine


----------



## Archangel27 (Mar 30, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Now I use the Garmin Fenix 6, LOVE it.



I have a Vivoactive 3 music.  It still works fine, but I'm wondering if it's really worth paying triple the MSRP to eventually upgrade.  I know the top level Garmins (e.g. Delta Tactix) have an insane amount of gizmos packed in there.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> @Dimethylamine



I watched this one, I'll watch the others later.  What I got from this is it all boils down to how efficiently your heart can pump blood in and out, which aerobic exercise is good at.  Anaerobic kind of depletes your heart of blood, so it can't really accomplish this as much.  All this can only get accomplished if your heart is constantly filling itself with blood and pumping it all out.

Lifting and doing strength exercises contract your muscles and trap blood, so it becomes harder to circulate it back to your lungs and heart.  I've always wondered why it was hard to do cardio after lifting.  I tried to do a 1 mile run after upper body day, and thought it would be easy because I didn't tax my legs, but it was more that fact that I was more winded than anything.

So, my slow sustained cardio is good enough?  I'll still do sprints, but I still feel like I'm leaving too much on the table if I don't do these operator/Crossfit style WODs.  It seems a lot of military workouts people do these days revolve on circuits.  

That reminds me, I started to do sled pushes today and I feel absolutely smoked for how little time you spend doing them.  I need to start doing those more.  I only put on 90 lbs and I was wearing my plate carrier and was a bit tired from my 5 mile run the day before.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 1, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> I watched this one, I'll watch the others later.  What I got from this is it all boils down to how efficiently your heart can pump blood in and out, which aerobic exercise is good at.  Anaerobic kind of depletes your heart of blood, so it can't really accomplish this as much.  All this can only get accomplished if your heart is constantly filling itself with blood and pumping it all out.
> 
> Lifting and doing strength exercises contract your muscles and trap blood, so it becomes harder to circulate it back to your lungs and heart.  I've always wondered why it was hard to do cardio after lifting.  I tried to do a 1 mile run after upper body day, and thought it would be easy because I didn't tax my legs, but it was more that fact that I was more winded than anything.
> 
> ...



With regard to aerobic/anaerobic, you are correct with aerobic.  You are a tad off-base with anaerobic.  When you are in zone 2, which is really foundational for everything military fitness related as well as endurance sports, you are maximizing the heart's efficiency in transporting O2-rich blood to the body, which starts a cascade of events in how you 'produce' energy, and from 'what' you produce energy (fat and carbs).  Anaerobic, your body shifts from using oxygen to use fat/carbs, to lactic acid and glucose.  

So yes, do slow sustained cardio.  And yes, do sprints, HIIT, and circuits.

Regarding sled pushes, also try backward running with someone holding a rope or a band around your waist for resistance.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> With regard to aerobic/anaerobic, you are correct with aerobic.  You are a tad off-base with anaerobic.  When you are in zone 2, which is really foundational for everything military fitness related as well as endurance sports, you are maximizing the heart's efficiency in transporting O2-rich blood to the body, which starts a cascade of events in how you 'produce' energy, and from 'what' you produce energy (fat and carbs).  Anaerobic, your body shifts from using oxygen to use fat/carbs, to lactic acid and glucose.
> 
> So yes, do slow sustained cardio.  And yes, do sprints, HIIT, and circuits.
> 
> Regarding sled pushes, also try backward running with someone holding a rope or a band around your waist for resistance.



You can also swing a kettlebell. If you want endurance do a light one a bunch of times. If you want to get strong, swing a heavy one fewer times.

;)

I wear my Apple Watch for HR monitoring. It works well enough. I take propanolol so my Hr really never gets above 165. Maybe that is a limitation of the watch, or maybe it is a beta blocker limitation.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 1, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> *You can also swing a kettlebell.* If you want endurance do a light one a bunch of times. If you want to get strong, swing a heavy one fewer times.
> 
> ;)
> 
> I wear my Apple Watch for HR monitoring. It works well enough. I take propanolol so my Hr really never gets above 165. Maybe that is a limitation of the watch, or maybe it is a beta blocker limitation.



Since I am a poor man and can't afford kettles, I use a cinder block...they are about 38 pounds.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> With regard to aerobic/anaerobic, you are correct with aerobic.  You are a tad off-base with anaerobic.  When you are in zone 2, which is really foundational for everything military fitness related as well as endurance sports, you are maximizing the heart's efficiency in transporting O2-rich blood to the body, which starts a cascade of events in how you 'produce' energy, and from 'what' you produce energy (fat and carbs).  Anaerobic, your body shifts from using oxygen to use fat/carbs, to lactic acid and glucose.
> 
> So yes, do slow sustained cardio.  And yes, do sprints, HIIT, and circuits.
> 
> Regarding sled pushes, also try backward running with someone holding a rope or a band around your waist for resistance.



I'll start doing more circuits and CrossFit style centric workouts, sans kipping pull ups and the proprietary gym $100 protein powder .  I'll start building my own workouts or find some workouts that look fun.  However, a lot of links on this site are dead.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 1, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> I have a Vivoactive 3 music.  It still works fine, but I'm wondering if it's really worth paying triple the MSRP to eventually upgrade.  I know the top level Garmins (e.g. Delta Tactix) have an insane amount of gizmos packed in there.


I have had my Fenix 5x for five years...so yes.


----------



## Archangel27 (Apr 2, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I have had my Fenix 5x for five years...so yes.



Gotcha.  When I return CONUS I'll look more into it.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 2, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> I'll start doing more circuits and CrossFit style centric workouts, sans kipping pull ups and the proprietary gym $100 protein powder .  I'll start building my own workouts or find some workouts that look fun.  However, a lot of links on this site are dead.



I don't listen to podcasts, my mind tries to think of 80 things at once. But I do watch the videos on YouTube. One's Ready.  Our own affable, loveable @amlove21 is one of the guys that runs it, and although it is Air Force centric, it can be applied to just about anything.


----------



## amlove21 (Apr 2, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I don't listen to podcasts, my mind tries to think of 80 things at once. But I do watch the videos on YouTube. One's Ready.  Our own affable, loveable @amlove21 is one of the guys that runs it, and although it is Air Force centric, it can be applied to just about anything.


For instance....

A friend of the podcast and former Special Warfare Prep Coach, Taylor Starch, is a huge advocate for heart rate zone training and expanding your metabolic base. I have applied a lot of his concepts and feel the best I have in years. He's dope. Here are the two videos where he expounds.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 5, 2022)




----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 5, 2022)

Sorry for the formatting; I've never attached photos on here before.  I went on a light slow long distance run to try out the zone 2 outlined in the Ones Ready podcast.  I did the talk test on mile 2, and felt I was in the Goldilocks area; not too fast not too slow. 

My heartrate monitor shows I was in Zone 5 for >60% of my run when I definitely wasn't.  Going forward, I'm not going to follow my heart rate monitor but base it off of feel.  I do feel great after the run.  Like Taylor said; all the great benefits without breaking yourself down.


----------

