# Shotguns



## Pete031 (Sep 24, 2007)

I did a search and could not find anything on them in here....

I am in the market for a shotgun, I have a lot of experience with the Remington 870P, but it is kind of an expensive one. 
I am thinking about Mossberg, 
Anyone here have any good suggestions?


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## rangerpsych (Sep 24, 2007)

870, expensive?

I'd buy an 870 over a mossberg. Easier to disassemble, clean, and maintain... not to mention bombproof...


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## medicchick (Sep 24, 2007)

Remington 870.  We got 2 last December for less than $450, plus it's easy to find parts for them, and easy to take apart and clean.


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## JBS (Sep 24, 2007)

My vote goes for the Mossberg 500.  The closer you can get to a 590, the better.

I've shot barrels OFF the Remington before.  No BS.  Of course, that was a LOT of rounds down range, but I've pushed both guns to the max, in terms of different loads, dirt, water, dropping it, falling down on top of it (_"I'm up they see me I'm down"_)

The Remington is also no good for horizontal and vertical butt-strokes, as it would likely crack near where the chamber marries with the butt-stock.

If you want something for self defense, the Remington isn't bad- and of course the military DOES use it, but I prefer the Mossberg hands down.  I consider it the most rugged shotgun for the money.


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## Pete031 (Sep 24, 2007)

wow, I should head to the US for one.... They are closer to $800 in Canada. The Mossberg 500 is closer to $300. Mossberg 590 around $500.


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## JBS (Sep 24, 2007)

The Mossberg can also be hopped up quite a bit, with many after-market, paramilitary, and SWAT-oriented gear.







590 Model





500 Series


Prices are in the low $200's if you look hard enough.  Full retail is closer to $450-550.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 24, 2007)

Joe, interesting, considering we had 870's and threw many many rounds and loads through them... we had police models and also the new 870 military model with the changeable rear pistol grip/buttstock and barrel kit.

Never had a barrel come off.

What's the purpose of the weapon? Hunting, Home defense?


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## pardus (Sep 24, 2007)

Never used a Remington, Dont like Mossburgs, they rattle like and old man's false teeth IMO, I have always owned and still do Winchester Defender 1300s I love them. :2c:
Got my last one in mint condition for $350 USD.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 24, 2007)

our shotties.


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## pardus (Sep 24, 2007)

Whats the mag hold?

One thing I do like about the defender in the 7 + 1 round capacity.


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## gunslinger (Sep 24, 2007)

I have used all three of those mentioned.   All three are damn good weapons but if I made dept. equipment choices, Id go with the 590 hands down.    Right now my patrol shotgun is an 870 with front and rear site. smooth bore.   We alternate slug and buckshot.   Like I said I dont make the choices but its usable.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 24, 2007)

6 total for the slug gun if you're shooting 2 3/4, 3 and 1 if it's 3"... 
3 and 1 for 3.5" 5 and 1 for 3" and 7 and 1 for 2 3/4 for the super mag, it has a +1 cap right now. 

Both are getting extended magazines in the future, considering that I do not duck hunt therefore I am not restricted to ammunition quantity.


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## pardus (Sep 24, 2007)

OK cool.


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## medicchick (Sep 24, 2007)

I also take into account weather conditions, and how easy it is to field strip and clean a weapon.  That's another reason my hunting rifle is a lever action, easy to clean, as is my pistol and shotgun.  Up here it can mean the difference between life or death.


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## RackMaster (Sep 25, 2007)

Pete031 said:


> wow, I should head to the US for one.... They are closer to $800 in Canada. The Mossberg 500 is closer to $300. Mossberg 590 around $500.



Pete where were you looking to buy?  Was it local?  Don't buy anything around that shithole. ;)  There's only one local place around there that I would probably buy from.  What did you want to use it for?  Did you have a specific 870 that you were looking at?  If you know specifically what you want but are unhappy of price, then you can order online and have it mailed to you.  If your not sure of what your looking for drop me a pm and I can give you some more info on the places listed below.


Wholesale Sports

S.I.R. Mail Order

Russell Sporting Goods

Ellwood Epps Sporting Goods

Sports Action

Le Baron Outdoor Goods

Marstar Canada


http://www.firearmscanada.com/gun_dealers.html


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## pardus (Sep 25, 2007)

Get me a fucking Norinco M-14 and smuggle it to me here....


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## Olive Drab (Sep 25, 2007)

benelli nova


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## Pete031 (Sep 25, 2007)

rangerpsych said:


> Joe, interesting, considering we had 870's and threw many many rounds and loads through them... we had police models and also the new 870 military model with the changeable rear pistol grip/buttstock and barrel kit.
> 
> Never had a barrel come off.
> 
> What's the purpose of the weapon? Hunting, Home defense?



Home defense and Rocky mountain hiking bear gun.


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## DDSSDV (Sep 25, 2007)

I have a HK FABARM 6. Cheap at 450.00 and is a great shooter. Pump w/6 round tube. Barrel shroud.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 25, 2007)

Get yourself a 870 Express mag from a pawn shop and call it a day.


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## JBS (Sep 25, 2007)

> Joe, interesting, considering we had 870's and threw many many rounds and loads through them... we had police models and also the new 870 military model with the changeable rear pistol grip/buttstock and barrel kit.




Tacticool.  Nice weapons.  The police model with the 14" barrels are especially nice- and if anything the 870 platform seems to be hailed by everyone else on the planet as reliable.  As for the new military designation for their latest creation, I think the 870 MCS is probably one of the coolest high-speed setups I've seen in a long while, especially like this CQB M-4 w/870MCS attachment.:







Now if only Mossberg made one like it.:)

As for shooting off the barrel, it happened to two of us in one day.  You'll have to forgive me, as I'm no armorer, but there are 2 sliding pieces that have a hook shape to them.   They slide into the receiver during reassembly.  I think its called the "Fore-end Tube Assembly", and somehow it interacts with the extractor.  With my weapon, when the barrel flew off, I think one of those hook-shaped curve segments snapped, because when the barrel came off, it wasn't just the barrel.  Those two long, curved pieces slid out with the receiver assembly group- together with the barrel.  Something there broke, but I don't know what.  On the same day, another guy had the exact same thing happen to him.  From that day on, we were all thinking the Remington was a piece of crap.  To this day, I still wonder if maybe the slide/mag cap wasn't threaded all the way... I dunno.

I did a search on the internet to see if there were any other reports of the same thing happening, and I didn't find any.  I really can't believe it, but the only reviews on the thing are about how great it is.  Personally, my experience is what it is, and I won't buy one.  


By comparison, my 590 has been used to execute horizontal butt-strokes on heavy rubber dummies, covered in dirt, and fired in extremely cold and extremely hot weather, and I never had so much as a crack in it.  Only complaint is I don't like the sling configuration on it.  Its basically worthless.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 25, 2007)

JoeBlackSpade said:


> As for shooting off the barrel, it happened to two of us in one day.  You'll have to forgive me, as I'm no armorer, but there are 2 sliding pieces that have a hook shape to them.   They slide into the receiver during reassembly.  I think its called the "Fore-end Tube Assembly", and somehow it interacts with the extractor.  With my weapon, when the barrel flew off, I think one of those hook-shaped curve segments snapped, because when the barrel came off, it wasn't just the barrel.  Those two long, curved pieces slid out with the receiver assembly group- together with the barrel.  Something there broke, but I don't know what.  On the same day, another guy had the exact same thing happen to him.  From that day on, we were all thinking the Remington was a piece of crap.  To this day, I still wonder if maybe the slide/mag cap wasn't threaded all the way... I dunno.
> 
> I did a search on the internet to see if there were any other reports of the same thing happening, and I didn't find any.  I really can't believe it, but the only reviews on the thing are about how great it is.  Personally, my experience is what it is, and I won't buy one.



You'll have to find a blow-up of an 870 disassembled, or my wife will have to take a picture of one of ours so you can point out exactly what the hell you're talking about, because I have no clue.

There is only one curved portion of the weapon that is related to the barrel, and that contains the recess that the bolt's locking lug moves into when it moves into battery. There is a plate below the bolt itself, then the slide rails that come off the foregrip to manipulate the "pump" of the shotgun. 

The ONLY thing that I can think of to have caused such a massive failure to have had something like that happen, is that you may have come across some bad ammunition. Given that it happened twice in one day, that could have been a bad box/lot/what have you.... It would have to be severely over-charged in order to do that, and I am suprised that a truly catastrophic failure (ie gun just straight turning to frag) did not occur. 

Even with 3" magnum rounds shot all day during fam fires, door breaches, etc.. we never, ever, had a 870 fail to fire. The 870 was the single most reliable weapon system that we had at our disposal.

Of course we only used them for breaching, they were never considered as a primary weapons system for anyone, and all had the stocks removed and were single rear pistol grip.


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## pardus (Sep 25, 2007)

I think the last time a shotgun was issued to NZ troops as a main weapon was in the Malayan campaign in the 50's, lead scouts used them.


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## JBS (Sep 26, 2007)

If you look below the chamber, near the ejection port, you'll see the sear.  Below that are two thin bars, with the tips curved slightly upward.


Those are part of what flew out, along with the mag tube and barrel.

Really the thing didn't "blow" up, but it kind of popped apart.  That's the best way I can describe it.  When it happened little flecks of what I imagine was gunpowder flew up in my face, and left 3 or 4 little zinging burn marks- each about the size of a pencil point on my cheeks and nose.


The other one that had the same thing happen, the entire tube flew out foreward of the firing line, right out of that Marine's hands- maybe 4 feet.  I didn't see how it happened, as I was focused on something else, but I remember catching it out of the corner of my eye, and then hearing "CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE".

If I could see the diagram a little better, I'd name the part.


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## medicchick (Sep 26, 2007)

This is the site I got it from, it's a bit bigger there

http://www.okiegunsmithshop.com/rem870.jpg

Here's some i just took, this is a basic breakdown not using any tools or popping any pins (camera died so I couldn't take any more pics anyway).


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## DDSSDV (Sep 26, 2007)

Seen a similar deal happen to a Mossberg. Actually broke the slide ejector tangs in half. Welded it back together. 




JoeBlackSpade said:


> If you look below the chamber, near the ejection port, you'll see the sear.  Below that are two thin bars, with the tips curved slightly upward.
> 
> 
> Those are part of what flew out, along with the mag tube and barrel.
> ...


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## JBS (Sep 26, 2007)

TY.  

Great pics by the way.  Pretty much what you have disassembled there is much of what flew apart that day, more or less.  That was in 1997, IIRC, when it happened.  Of course we had standards butt stocks, not pistol grips, but other than that, I don't know that there are any other major differences between what I was shooting that day, and what's available nowadays.


It says "fore end tube assembly".

That's what I thought it was.



I did another quick search to see if anyone else had reported something like this, but all I found was a Remy 710, where the bolt cracked inside the chamber, and a few other weapons with broken firing pins.

Of course, I never talked much about my experience that day, nor did I take pictures, but I should have.  Its funny the things you remember much later on.  I've got one HELL of a (true) story to tell about our unit getting pulled over by Maryland / VA / DC Police and law enforcement, on I-270 one time.  I'll post that in the general discussion thread- or maybe humor, later.


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## DDSSDV (Sep 26, 2007)

Haven't seen a 870 do that but the way the mil treats um, kinda wonder how they even shoot anymore.


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## JBS (Sep 26, 2007)

> Seen a similar deal happen to a Mossberg. Actually broke the slide ejector tangs in half. Welded it back together.



Their construction isn't all that dissimilar.  I can imagine it happening under the right circumstances- all though I don't know exactly what those circumstances might've been.



> kinda wonder how they even shoot anymore.



With CLP, 90-mile-an-hour tape, and alot of motivation!


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## rangerpsych (Sep 26, 2007)

your shit was USMC issue which means used, abused, and wasn't new when it hit your armory.. LOL


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## DDSSDV (Sep 26, 2007)

rangerpsych said:


> your shit was USMC issue which means used, abused, and wasn't new when it hit your armory.. LOL



Yeah and the Navy version wasn't much better.


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## JBS (Sep 26, 2007)

And all that time, we thought it was the cool, rugged, weather-beaten look!

LOL!

That right there is the element NEVER captured in movies on the Marine Corps.  Never the duct tape, dummy-cords, field expedient welding joints, etc.


Anyways....


We always DID get more shit done with LESS.;)


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## rangerpsych (Sep 26, 2007)

Think you aughta try that stress testing with a new one.

We just got a sidesaddle for ours.


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