# War in the Falklands. Through the Eyes of the British and Argentine Soldiers Who Fought There.



## pardus (Jul 31, 2013)

A really good personal look at the war from those that fought it. Nice to see the Argies included in this.


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## pardus (Jul 31, 2013)

I have downloaded Commander Rick Jolly's book, really looking forward to reading that. I really admire him from what I know so far.


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## DA SWO (Jul 31, 2013)

pardus said:


> I have downloaded Commander Rick Jolly's book, really looking forward to reading that. I really admire him from what I know so far.


Which book is that?


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## pardus (Jul 31, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Which book is that?



*Doctor For Friend and Foe: Britain's Frontline Medic in the Fight for the Falklands*
*ISBN-10:* 9781844861545


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## DA SWO (Aug 1, 2013)

pardus said:


> *Doctor For Friend and Foe: Britain's Frontline Medic in the Fight for the Falklands*
> *ISBN-10:* 9781844861545


I'll look for it.

I downloaded Special Forces Pilot by Richard Hutchings, really recommend it.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 2, 2013)

SOWT said:


> I'll look for it.
> 
> I downloaded Special Forces Pilot by Richard Hutchings, really recommend it.



I've just ordered that and another one called Scram about the Marine pilots there. Thanks for the heads up.


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## DA SWO (Aug 2, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> I've just ordered that and another one called Scram about the Marine pilots there. Thanks for the heads up.


Who is the author of Scram?  
Falklands was a "medium" war that has become forgotten by many.
This was the first time I actually paid attention to world events (was in college), I think the Falklands will also go down as the first "media" war too.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 2, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Who is the author of Scram?
> Falklands was a "medium" war that has become forgotten by many.
> This was the first time I actually paid attention to world events (was in college), I think the Falklands will also go down as the first "media" war too.



Harry Benson*. The aviation side of things is often forgotten so it's good to see some books come out about it. The ground troops (rightly) get a lot of attention but I think people forget that the pilots themselves did some incredibly brave things. Prince Andrew served as a helo pilot for RN there too. 



> The territories of the Falkland Islands, which are a British overseas territory but are claimed by Argentina, were invaded by Argentina on 2 April 1982, an event that instigated the Falklands War. _Invincible_ was one of the two operational aircraft carriers available at the time, and, as such, was to play a major role in the Royal Navy task force assembled to sail south to retake the islands. However, Prince Andrew's place on board and the possibility of The Queen's son being killed in action made the British Government apprehensive, and the Cabinet desired that Prince Andrew be moved to a desk job for the duration of the conflict. The Queen, though, insisted that her son be allowed to remain with his ship, meaning Prince Andrew remained on board _Invincible_ to serve as a Sea King helicopter co-pilot, flying on missions that included anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, Exocet missile decoy, casualty evacuation, transport, and search and air rescue. He witnessed the Argentinian attack on the SS _Atlantic Conveyor_, and was one of the first to take off survivors.[3]
> 
> At the cessation of the war, _Invincible_ returned to Portsmouth, where The Queen and Prince Philip joined other families of the crew in welcoming the vessel home, after which Prince Andrew laid a wreath at the Cenotaph each year on Remembrance Sunday to commemorate the South Atlantic campaign. The Argentinean military government reportedly planned, but did not attempt, to assassinate the prince on Mustique in July 1982.[4] Though he had brief assignments to HMS _Illustrious_, RNAS Culdrose, and the Joint Services School of Intelligence, Prince Andrew remained with _Invincible_ until 1983. In Commander Nigel Ward's book, _Sea Harrier Over the Falklands_, Prince Andrew was described as "an excellent pilot and a very promising officer". He was decorated for his service in the Falklands.




http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1848093624/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## AWP (Aug 2, 2013)

An interesting bit of Falklands trivia I stumbled across...

http://maic.jmu.edu/journal/13.1/editorials/keeley/keeley.htm



> This Falklands-Malvinas Islands minefield is a sanctuary for penguins. The birds’ ground-bearing pressure is insufficient to set off the mines, and their predators are too big to enter the minefield.


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## racing_kitty (Aug 2, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> An interesting bit of Falklands trivia I stumbled across...




That's pretty cool.


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## pardus (Aug 2, 2013)

SOWT said:


> I'll look for it.
> 
> I downloaded Special Forces Pilot by Richard Hutchings, really recommend it.



I just downloaded this as well. Thanks.


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## Short Round (Aug 6, 2013)

Interesting that rifleman on both sides fought primarily with the FAL. Although I believe that the British L1A1 was slightly different in that it did not fire on full automatic.


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## pardus (Aug 6, 2013)

Short Round said:


> Interesting that rifleman on both sides fought primarily with the FAL. Although I believe that the British L1A1 was slightly different in that it did not fire on full automatic.



Correct. The Argies also had a folding stock version. Both sides used FN MAGs and Browing 50cal MGs as well, and IIRC the same pistol, Browning Hi-Power.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 12, 2013)

That SF Pilot book has arrived, been reading it this arvo. Looking to be quite good. Interesting time for SF support flying back then, TF160 happened around the same time- it would be interesting to compare the training and employment of 7Sqn/Commando pilots and TF160 at the time.


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## Viper1 (Aug 12, 2013)

Pardus, wonderful videos.  Thank you for posting.  I especially enjoyed the first video about the Royal Navy.  Incredible use of aggressiveness striking the Argentinian ships first.  I am looking forward to studying this conflict more in depth.  We didn't get much instruction on it at USMA.


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## pardus (Aug 12, 2013)

Viper1 said:


> Pardus, wonderful videos.  Thank you for posting.  I especially enjoyed the first video about the Royal Navy.  Incredible use of aggressiveness striking the Argentinian ships first.  I am looking forward to studying this conflict more in depth.  We didn't get much instruction on it at USMA.



Glad you liked it. It is a fascinating campaign. Thankfully there are now a lot of good books on the campaign, both historical studies and more interesting to me, personal stories.

Even rumors of American mercenaries fighting for the Argies


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## SpitfireV (Aug 12, 2013)

I've just done a bit of googling and it seems that was a rumour from very very early after the war ended and the MOD denied it in 82 or 83. Argentinians are saying there weren't any supposedly, I don't think it would matter these days if (assuming it's true) if it were kept secret anymore. From the very quick research I've done I would say it was unlikely but with that said the genesis of the rumour is interesting.


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## pardus (Aug 12, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> I've just done a bit of googling and it seems that was a rumour from very very early after the war ended and the MOD denied it in 82 or 83. Argentinians are saying there weren't any supposedly, I don't think it would matter these days if (assuming it's true) if it were kept secret anymore. From the very quick research I've done I would say it was unlikely but with that said the genesis of the rumour is interesting.



This was written in a book that a Para wrote. He witnessed it personally and his mate was personally threatened by MI5/6 after the war to keep his mouth shut. The Americans were supposedly executed, on order from London (and IIRC in collusion with Washington) in order to stop an international incident.

Or so he says...


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## SpitfireV (Aug 12, 2013)

pardus said:


> This was written in a book that a Para wrote. He witnessed it personally and his mate was personally threatened by MI5/6 after the war to keep his mouth shut. The Americans were supposedly executed, on order from London (and IIRC in collusion with Washington) in order to stop an international incident.
> 
> Or so he says...



Yeah I read that (the mention of it from his book, not the book itself) but it does make me wonder. I mean, look at the sinking of that cruiser Belgrano- that was a legitimate target and the outcry that still occasionally pops up.  I think if this had happened then the Argentinian soldiers would have said something by now; there's no reason for them not to. I did read about a guy who had a US father/AR mother/born in NYC who wanted to fight for his "homeland" but I can't corroborate that. 

And anyway, the Argentinians were quite well trained anyway weren't they? Would they have need of mercs?


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## pardus (Aug 12, 2013)

To be clear, I'm highly sceptical of the story. That said, this is war, lots of things are unexplainable. 
The Belgrano was outside the 200ml exclusion zone which is why there is some controversy behind the decision to sink it.

Argentina was a conscript army, some well trained, professional units and a lot of unwilling (yet brave) Soldiers. 
The Argentine Junta was desperate at the time, hence the invasion itself. Nothing would surprise me, but again, I'm pretty sceptical.

A little known fact is that the British pondered the idea of launching a Trident (?) missile, without a nuclear payload, into the center of Buenos Aries as a rather obvious declaration of Britain's determination with regards to the Falklands.


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## AWP (Aug 13, 2013)

pardus said:


> This was written in a book that a Para wrote. He witnessed it personally and his mate was personally threatened by MI5/6 after the war to keep his mouth shut. The Americans were supposedly executed, on order from London (and IIRC in collusion with Washington) in order to stop an international incident.
> 
> Or so he says...


 
I just read a blurb about The Feather Men which the movie Killer Elite was based on. Whenever I hear of conspiracies ending in "everyone was killed to protect the secret" my BS meter pegs off the scale.


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> I just read a blurb about The Feather Men which the movie Killer Elite was based on. Whenever I hear of conspiracies ending in "everyone was killed to protect the secret" my BS meter pegs off the scale.



The Feather Men has been roundly agreed upon to be utter fiction, even by the author, though he changed his mind on that later on... 

I read the book and was quite bored by it until the very end, when DS's name was mentioned. I thought that was a simply brilliant twist. 

The movie adaption was fun and I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed Rambo.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 13, 2013)

pardus said:


> To be clear, I'm highly sceptical of the story. That said, this is war, lots of things are unexplainable.
> The Belgrano was outside the 200ml exclusion zone which is why there is some controversy behind the decision to sink it.
> 
> Argentina was a conscript army, some well trained, professional units and a lot of unwilling (yet brave) Soldiers.
> ...



Fair points those. The SLBM thing (would have been a Polaris back then IIRC, just to be picky) is really interesting- imagine the back hall negotiations to both tell all the nuclear powers it wasn't a nuke launch and the effort you'd have to go to to keep it all secret!

Reading this book (SF Pilot), he mentions that there were two exchange pilots in his sqn at the time, one Aussie and one Yank. Sounds like the Yank got sent home pretty quickly (unsurprising) but the Aussie almost stayed on. Presumably a AU government decision since I remember reading (vague memory though) about some of the SF units having kept their people in the unit on exchange...


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> Fair points those. The SLBM thing (would have been a Polaris back then IIRC, just to be picky) is really interesting- imagine the back hall negotiations to both tell all the nuclear powers it wasn't a nuke launch and the effort you'd have to go to to keep it all secret!
> 
> Reading this book (SF Pilot), he mentions that there were two exchange pilots in his sqn at the time, one Aussie and one Yank. Sounds like the Yank got sent home pretty quickly (unsurprising) but the Aussie almost stayed on. Presumably a AU government decision since I remember reading (vague memory though) about some of the SF units having kept their people in the unit on exchange...



Yes, Polaris I'm sure.

I was hanging out with a Kiwi mate of mine today, RNZAF armourer/EOD. He has told me several times that the Brits were in direct comms with them, in regards to the US bombs the Argies were dropping on the ships. The Brit EOD guys didn't have the experience with them that the Kiwis did (we used US aircraft and bombs). My mate said he and a dozen RNZAF EOD guys had all their gear packed and ready to fly to the Falklands at a moments notice. 

NZ deployed a frigate to replace a Brit one in order to allow the Brit one to go down south. We were very supportive indeed, shame we didn't get to go IMO.


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## DA SWO (Aug 13, 2013)

pardus said:


> Yes, Polaris I'm sure.
> 
> I was hanging out with a Kiwi mate of mine today, RNZAF armourer/EOD. He has told me several times that the Brits were in direct comms with them, in regards to the US bombs the Argies were dropping on the ships. The Brit EOD guys didn't have the experience with them that the Kiwis did (we used US aircraft and bombs). My mate said he and a dozen RNZAF EOD guys had all their gear packed and ready to fly to the Falklands at a moments notice.
> 
> NZ deployed a frigate to replace a Brit one in order to allow the Brit one to go down south. We were very supportive indeed, shame we didn't get to go IMO.


US moved additional tankers into NATO to free up RAF assets. I have seen some stories where we also put tankers into the azores to refuel RAF aircraft headed to the war zone.

Poor maintenance helped the British, as some of the Argentine bombs couldn't detonate because the fuses essentially rusted in-place.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 13, 2013)

You guys gave them a bunch of satellite coverage, too. Chile moved their troops to the border (them and AR were having issues at the time) to keep the mountain troops and some others tied up as well. The RNZAF thing is new to me but not too surprising. We gave them a lot of SIGNIT stuff IIRC.


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Poor maintenance helped the British, as some of the Argentine bombs couldn't detonate because the fuses essentially rusted in-place.



Ive never hear that before. Do you have a source/link for that?
Everything Ive read/been told is that the bombs weren't going off because the Argie pilots were flying so low that the bombs didn't have time to arm themselves most of the time.


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## pardus (Aug 13, 2013)

*ARGENTINA’S TACTICAL AIRCRAFT EMPLOYMENT *
*IN THE FALKLAND ISLANDS WAR *

AIR COMMAND AND STAFF COLLEGE 
AIR UNIVERSITY 
by 
Gabriel V. Green, Major, USAF 




> One of the common trend items they failed to recognize quickly was that the bombs generally did not detonate.
> Many have studied this problem and the common consensus is the bombs were either fused incorrectly or delivered at too low of an altitude to arm.
> The fuses in general purpose bombs are set on the ground and have two function settings.
> The first setting determines the time delay required for the weapon to arm.
> ...


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## AWP (Aug 15, 2013)

A pretty good write-up of the Falkland's air war:

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/falklands.html?c=y&page=1

Re: the Belgrano


> The next morning, about 200 miles northwest of the British fleet, 25th de Mayo prepared a strike, but with no wind, her catapult couldn’t loft a fully laden Skyhawk. General Belgrano was eastbound 30 miles south of the combat zone, trailed by the British nuclear submarine Conqueror. Sensing an Argentine pincer movement, the Royal Navy ordered the sub to strike.


 
The Smithsonian alleges that the bombs were British-made and improperly employed :



> In fact, their British-made thousand-pounders weren’t detonating. Fused to provide enough time for the airplane to get clear before they exploded, the bombs had no time to arm at the low altitudes where the Argentines were flying. To arm and explode, they needed to be dropped from a greater height—at least 200 feet—and at that altitude, the aircraft became vulnerable to missiles. BBC World Service would reveal that little secret, but not until late May.


 
Mad props to the BBC for their OPSEC....


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## SpitfireV (Aug 15, 2013)

I think they had a big mixture of equipment, British/French/US and some Israeli aircraft to boot. The book I'm reading now mentioned the British bombs too. Thanks for that link, I'll have a read of that later on.

IIRC the Captain of the Belgrano has said he doesn't have an issue with the sinking and considered it a "legitimate" sinking.

This image shows that mix quite well I think


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## pardus (Aug 15, 2013)

The BBC also reported that 2 Para were about to launch an imminent attack on Goose Green just hours before it happened.

As for the bombs, my information is that they were US made MK 82 bombs for sure (that was why the RNZAF were called, as that was what they used were as the Brits didn't) and I see a wiki reference to a Brit 1000lb bomb.


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## pardus (Aug 15, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Re: the Belgrano



Forgot to address this earlier...

*Belgrano was heading to the Falklands, secret papers reveal*

* Top secret papers are set to prove that the warship Belgrano was heading into the Falkland's exclusion zone when it was sunk, and not heading back to port as the Argentinians claimed. *


Also...

*'Belgrano' ordered to attack British ships on day before sinking, secret report reveals*


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## AWP (Aug 15, 2013)

Hell, the Belgrano was an enemy combatant. It isn't like they sunk it pier-side in the US. "To," "From", doesn't matter in my simple eyes, those sailors weren't taking the kids to school...


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## pardus (Aug 15, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Hell, the Belgrano was an enemy combatant. It isn't like they sunk it pier-side in the US. "To," "From", doesn't matter in my simple eyes, those sailors weren't taking the kids to school...



Exactly.

I just added another link. In it is this little snippet...



> In 1994 the Argentine government dropped its claim that the sinking of the Belgrano was a war crime, its defence ministry conceding that it was "a legal act of war''.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 16, 2013)

Which is pretty much what the captain said. It's mostly arse-hurt Argies and dumb left wingers that hate Thatcher that bring it up.


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## pardus (Aug 16, 2013)

I find it hugely ironic when the Argentine govt call anything a war crime after what they did during the dirty war.
Argentinian people should be grateful to the British, for not only did they treat their POWs with better care than their own commanders, but the Falklands war was the event that caused the Junta to collapse and restore democracy to Argentina.


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## pardus (Aug 16, 2013)

Warrant Officer John Phillips, British Army Royal Engineer EOD.

In the second video, he states that the 1000lb bombs were indeed British, even has a photo of the bomb they defused. 
http://www.storyvault.com/video/view/heading_to_the_falklands_war_bomb_disposal_team1
http://www.storyvault.com/video/view/heading_to_the_falklands_war_bomb_disposal_team1

http://www.storyvault.com/video/view/defusing_a_bomb_on_hms_argonaut_falklands_war1

http://www.storyvault.com/video/view/bomb_explodes_on_hms_antelope_part_1_falklands_war1

http://www.storyvault.com/video/view/bomb_explodes_on_hms_antelope_part_2_falklands_war1


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## AWP (Aug 16, 2013)

I win the Internet. Join us next week as pardus and I debate obscure facts from the Boxer Rebellion. It should be great fun for the 2 or 3 of you bored enough to watch.

:-"


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## pardus (Aug 16, 2013)

LOL! I'm actually quite curious about the Boxer Rebellion too!


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## AWP (Aug 16, 2013)

It was either in China or when Cassius Clay wouldn't appear for the draft. Maybe drugs were involved....in the war, not me using them or anything.

It was the first semi-obscure war that popped into my head. My sarcasm has limits. LOL


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## pardus (Aug 16, 2013)

LOL. Reminds me of something that happened with myself and a currently absent member here.
We were sitting at a bar a few of us used the frequent, talking about some Military history subject/tactic when we hear a female yell at us "HEY!" We look up to a rather scantily clad barmaid who was gyrating her perfectly proportioned 21 yr old body on top of the bar. "Every time I get up here to dance you two ignore me and keep talking about bayonets or some shit! WTF?"

"Ummmm, sorry? ..............So........ do you know anything about bayonets?"


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 21, 2013)

So did you show her your bayonets?


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## DA SWO (Aug 22, 2013)

When I was in Kosovo the JOC Chief was a British Col, and his Aviation Liaison was an Argentine A-4 pilot.  Never talked about the Falklands.


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## AWP (Aug 22, 2013)

SOWT said:


> When I was in Kosovo the JOC Chief was a British Col, and his Aviation Liaison was an Argentine A-4 pilot.  Never talked about the Falklands.


 
That scenario has so much potential awesome it's a shame nothing more came from it.


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## pardus (Oct 5, 2013)




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