# Paper Thin Armor



## JBS (Jan 15, 2009)

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/10/17/buckypaper-material.html



> *Oct. 17, 2008* -- It's called "buckypaper" and looks a lot like ordinary carbon paper, but don't be fooled by the cute name or flimsy appearance. It could revolutionize the way everything from airplanes to TVs are made.
> 
> Buckypaper is 10 times lighter but potentially *500 times stronger than steel* when sheets of it are stacked and pressed together to form a composite.












Apparently, thin strands of molecular "bucky" tubes are made that stand vertically (like grass).

Then a machine uses great pressure to flatten them, so they lay down and overlap.  





This development will make it possible to armor people and vehicles with ultra-lightweight material- extremely inexpensively.


----------



## InfantryScout64 (Jan 20, 2009)

so... who wants to be the lucky person to test this stuff??? ;)


----------



## AWP (Jan 20, 2009)

So a bullet or fragment doesn't penetrate it? Awesome.

What about the energy from said bullet?


----------



## x SF med (Jan 20, 2009)

To answer Free's question - Bubble wrap, lots of bubble wrap and duct tape.


----------



## pardus (Jan 20, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> So a bullet or fragment doesn't penetrate it? Awesome.
> 
> What about the energy from said bullet?



My first thought at reading the title of the thread before I even opened it was Blunt Trauma. Better than dead but Ouch...

Bubblewrap sounds good...


----------



## JBS (Jan 20, 2009)

I'd guess trauma plates to protect the vitals, and the rest of your body behind BDU's made of this stuff for shrapel.


----------



## pardus (Jan 20, 2009)

How would you sew the BDUs?


----------



## AssadUSMC (Jan 21, 2009)

Carbon nanotubes are going to be "it" in manufacturing for a LONG time.  It is as significant as the jump from wood to steel.

The Chinese (the bad ones) are at the forefront of research for this too.  This is a race we want to win.

Here are some examples besides the one posted above of what CNTs (hold the jokes) will do:

Instant color change for your car
Embed in glass for instant limo tint
Flexible to sturdy containers (think ziploc turns into tupperware)

The list is endless - check out "carbon nanotubes" on Google.  Interesting stuff

/inner geek


----------



## JBS (Jan 21, 2009)

pardus762 said:


> How would you sew the BDUs?



LOL!

Hi tech needles, I'd guess.  Hell, might as well be lasers just for shits and giggles.



What is it about this that fires up (as AssadUSMC puts it) the inner geek?



This stuff is also an awesome conductor of electricity, so wrapping critical systems in it would prevent (in theory) EMP's from disabling commo and other systems.

It truly is the future.


----------



## LibraryLady (Jan 21, 2009)

pardus762 said:


> How would you sew the BDUs?





JBS said:


> ... Hi tech needles, I'd guess...



My bet would be a sleeve type arrangement, so you can slide a layer of this stuff inside a pocket of fabric - use it to cover the vital areas only.  That lets the fabric take up the body sweat on the inside and the dirt/grime on the outside.  Remove the armor sheets, wash the fabric and reinsert.

LL


----------



## arizonaguide (Jan 21, 2009)

pardus762 said:


> How would you sew the BDUs?



Grue.  Rot's of Grue.


----------



## G-Man222 (Jun 21, 2009)

In my inexperienced geekdom.

If this stuff is so thin, you could make ACUs out of it. on top of that, if it's truly so light, you could mount body armor made of this stuff, (to the same thickness) to add even more protection (and protect against blunt force trauma) to the torso. make helmets out of this stuff etc. thicker it is, the more damage it'll take.

and making full military issue uniforms out of this stuff, may also decrease amputations. Put a fire liner on the outside of it, and it may even save Soldiers from burning alive if trapped in burning vehicles long enough to be rescued. 

China's Army is already realizing this concept. I'll see if I can find the link.

But China's Marines are starting to test standard issue uniforms, at HALF the cost of a normal uniform. With ballistics material just like this, (that weights HALF what their original standard uniform weighed, which is almost to the point you wouldn't even feel it on your body at all...) topped with their standard issue body armor.

If China succeeds, a Chinese Marine will be one hard SOB to kill. :confused:

I'll see if I can find the link. But I was just reading it a couple hours ago. Didn't notice this thread until now.

And here's an even scarrier thought.

IF this stuff is so strong (or potentially) What would happen to the modern battlefield, when you make ALL the components of an armored vehicle of this stuff, thick enough to withstand 120, even 155mm direct hits. 

That's be roughly a 1800-3000lbs Tank... (if this material would be good to go to make components out of it, such as Engine parts, tracks, etc.) that's lighter than any Artillery Cannon the 82nd's got. 

Could you imagine tanks being airdropped onto the battlefield like bread and butter? No mechanical damage created etc.? That'd be an Invading General's Dream... 

Looking over this stuff, the potential for it is pretty much endless...


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 21, 2009)

If it makes me lighter and gives me the ability to move, hell's fucking yeah!!!


----------



## KBar666 (Jun 21, 2009)

Isn't this basiclly what was in Dragon Skin?

Same principal anyway.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 21, 2009)

Dragon Skin was the same thing as having little plates (like ESAPI) scaled all over each other like fish scales... Dragon Skin was not flexable for shit and just as heavy as what we got now.... Just did not stand up as well....


----------



## AWP (Jun 21, 2009)

Still have to deal with the energy from the round. 

This really is a simple question of physics and there is no way this shit would be of much use in an IED strike because it isn't going to absorb the energy from the blast. So, making a tank out of this wouldn't be much better than dropping an M3 Stuart on the modern battlefield. Hell, the frame, weapons, and electronics alone would still make a tank a heavy SOB. Stopping a round and providing a structure are two different things.

But hey, dreaming's free.....


----------



## KBar666 (Jun 21, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Still have to deal with the energy from the round.
> 
> This really is a simple question of physics and there is no way this shit would be of much use in an IED strike because it isn't going to absorb the energy from the blast. So, making a tank out of this wouldn't be much better than dropping an M3 Stuart on the modern battlefield. Hell, the frame, weapons, and electronics alone would still make a tank a heavy SOB. Stopping a round and providing a structure are two different things.
> 
> But hey, dreaming's free.....




Well I suppose if you prefer internal bleeding as opposed outward than this if for you, cause like you said even if it stops a round that going to be one of an impact.


----------



## AWP (Jun 21, 2009)

KBar666 said:


> Well I suppose if you prefer internal bleeding as opposed outward than this if for you, cause like you said even if it stops a round that going to be one of an impact.



Um, dead is still dead whether from a missing limb, GSW, or massive blunt force trauma.

We have guys that are 20 different ways of jacked up because of TBIs. They didn't get that way from metal penetrating their brain housing groups at a high rate of speed. No amount of fancy paper-thin armor could prevent what happened to them.

So, is this development great? Yes it is. Is it practical for a soldier to wear as part of his uniform? Nope.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jun 21, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> So, is this development great? Yes it is. Is it practical for a soldier to wear as part of his uniform? Nope.



I agree with everything but this part - I'd say is it practical? *not yet.*  it's like any cool development, the basics are done, proving it exists and is feasible has been accomplished.  now we just have to figure out proper applications for it.  Edison once said radio "is just a fashion contrivance that will soon die out, for there will never be invented a proper receiver."  and now, people like you (commo guys) make there living off of radio/tele/satcom.  at one point, body armor was just a joke, and now it's a very real and very pervasive sight on the battlefield.  

on the same token, I'm not trading my nomex pajamas for a pair of FRACUs made out of this stuff for a long time.... :)


----------



## AWP (Jun 21, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> I agree with everything but this part - I'd say is it practical? *not yet.*



Bingo.

How many years did it take before radio was used on a modern battlefield? Planes had an impact in WW1, but didn't really shine until the Spanish Civil War. The tank languished until the Blitzkrieg.

So, just because something exists doesn't mean that the world can use it immediately and that's where we are with this discovery.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jun 21, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> on the same token, I'm not trading my nomex pajamas for a pair of FRACUs made out of this stuff for a long time.... :)



let me clarify - I don't think this new "CNT" tech will be ready until I retire, a long long long time from now.  possibly my kids might benefit from it, though.



Freefalling said:


> Bingo.
> 
> How many years did it take before radio was used on a modern battlefield? Planes had an impact in WW1, but didn't really shine until the Spanish Civil War. The tank languished until the Blitzkrieg.
> 
> So, just because something exists doesn't mean that the world can use it immediately and that's where we are with this discovery.




Agree 100%


----------



## JJOIFVET (Jun 21, 2009)

InfantryScout64 said:


> so... who wants to be the lucky person to test this stuff??? ;)



Test it on a pig.


----------



## AssadUSMC (Jun 21, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> Test it on a pig.



Didn't you hear?  The outcry about "goat labs" is getting loud enough that the Army is considering dropping it.  Ridiculous...  I'm being totally serious.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/violations-in-army-animal-tests/paging-peta/


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jun 21, 2009)

spider-pig, spider-pig...


----------



## JBS (Jun 21, 2009)

Gents there are other compounds in the works right now that will take a flexible, soft surface area, and make it momentarily turn into a hard "shell", immediately upon impact with a projectile.

Then, a fraction of a second later, after the force of the projectile has dissipated into the shell, the normal properties of the fabric returns, and the cloth becomes supple and flexible again.







The hope is to take the "Buckeypaper", and coat it with the nano Shear Thickening Fluid, and then there will be no need to use ceramic plates.

The cloth will be ultra-light, and flexible- much lighter than BDU's/ACU's are currently.  But if a round impacts the fabric, it momentarily turns into a hard armor shell, and the round will just bounce off.  A few fractions of a second, the cloth goes back to normal.

Really some Star Wars shit.

http://www.aip.org/dbis/APS/stories/15201.html


----------



## JBS (Jun 21, 2009)

JBS said:


> Really some Star Wars shit.



But then we all know ANTIGRAVITY, and light speed travel used to be Star Wars shit, too:


----------



## JJOIFVET (Jun 21, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> So a bullet or fragment doesn't penetrate it? Awesome.
> 
> What about the energy from said bullet?



I would also like to see the energy dispersion of a bullet impact on this new material. If it hurts like hell when it hits regular Kevlar, and Kevlar is thicker, I would like to see some tests.


----------

