# MARSOC Badge



## brokenjar03 (Sep 19, 2014)

I was surprised to not find a thread on this article released by OAF this past May about MARSOC finally receiving a badge.  OAF seems to be the organization tracking on this pending uniform item. Though, I'm sure some members can vet the details and provide further insight, if they're allowed. 

Here it is gents, a USMC uniform item you'll actually want to buy...

 
http://www.oafnation.com/marines/2014/5/8/new-marsoc-badge


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## digrar (Sep 19, 2014)

What do the 26 stars represent?


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## medicchick (Sep 19, 2014)

Don't jinks it, it's not approved yet.


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## 104TN (Sep 19, 2014)

That's pretty BA.


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## Teufel (Sep 20, 2014)

The only badge I ever needed to feel cool was the Eagle, Globe and Anchor.


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## x SF med (Sep 20, 2014)

Teufel said:


> The only badge I ever needed to feel cool was the Eagle, Globe and Anchor.



Earning the right to wear crossed rifles with the blue backing and the blue aiguillette was very cool making for me.


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## digrar (Sep 20, 2014)

You haven't seen cool until you've been given a hat badge with a Kangaroo on it.


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## dmcgill (Sep 20, 2014)

If it is approved for wear by support Marines too, it will carry no real value.

That's exactly like saying the Personnel Clerk who works in the disbursing section of a SEAL Team rates to wear a Trident.


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## Salt USMC (Sep 20, 2014)

It looks awfully busy.


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## Gunz (Sep 20, 2014)

dmcgill said:


> If it is approved for wear by support Marines too, it will carry no real value.
> 
> That's exactly like saying the Personnel Clerk who works in the disbursing section of a SEAL Team rates to wear a Trident.


 
Or getting to wear the Screaming Eagle or All American patch just by assignment/attachment to the division. The Corps has always stood it's ground on nothing on the uniform you haven't earned. 

I like the badge with the Garand. Nicely done. But what's wrong with the old Raider patch?


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## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> *Or getting to wear the Screaming Eagle or All American patch just by assignment/attachment to the division*. The Corps has always stood it's ground on nothing on the uniform you haven't earned.
> 
> I like the badge with the Garand. Nicely done. But what's wrong with the old Raider patch?



Assignment or attachment to a unit is precisely the way in which one "earns" a unit patch.  What other criteria do you think needs to exist?


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## 8654Maine (Sep 20, 2014)

The badge should have been a giant turgid phallus and big brass testicles.

Those dudes are just HARD.

Is this article even real?


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 20, 2014)

Teufel said:


> The only badge I ever needed to feel cool was the Eagle, Globe and Anchor.


I was hoping you would post on this, was very curious to what your opinion would be.

Back in the early 90's we had  just the EGA ironed on to the pocket.  When order came down to add a name tag patch, the SNCO's at the time had mini-meltdowns.  "The beginning of the end they cried, Al Gray (current CMC at time) is trying to make us look like the Army!"   I always thought seeing the SCUBA or "wings" above the left breast pocket were cool to see though.

In my non-MARSOC rated thinking, my initial instinct is that someone thought that MARSOC Marines need more exposure when among the ranks, and if the SEAL's can have their trident, (forgive me if that should be capitaliized), then we should be able to have something too.


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## ShadowSpear (Sep 20, 2014)

8654Maine said:


> The badge should have been a giant turgid phallus and big brass testicles.
> 
> Those dudes are just HARD.
> 
> Is this article even real?



I was wondering the same thing. That insignia looks almost cartoonish.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2014)

I hope they adopt that badge, it will be the only one in the military more busy than the Army's MI branch insignia.


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## Gunz (Sep 20, 2014)

Marauder06 said:


> Assignment or attachment to a unit is precisely the way in which one "earns" a unit patch.  What other criteria do you think needs to exist?


 
None and my apologies...As a dumb jarhead years ago I was surprised to learn that non-paratroopers were permitted to wear the insignia of the airborne divisions.  I'm still a dumb jarhead. Obviously the jump badge is the distinction.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2014)

digrar said:


> What do the 26 stars represent?


The original 13 Colonies









Design looks a little busy, and gives the impression that everyone is jump/dive qualified.


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## Gunz (Sep 20, 2014)

They slapped it on him at the 1st Marine Raider Assoc dinner.


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## medicchick (Sep 20, 2014)

8654Maine said:


> Is this article even real?



Doubt it, there is nothing else online about it.  Plus, from the "About" on the site in the original post.



> On October 21, 2013 OAF Nation started as a satirical tongue-in-cheek Facebook page nicknamed OAF that quickly went viral. The initial goal of the page was to boost morale via captions on photos of military servicemen executing their day to day duties.



http://www.oafnation.com/what-we-do/


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## AWP (Sep 20, 2014)

OAF has also covered some very real events. Unlike Duffelblog or The Onion I wouldn't immediate discount an article on its site.

Re: the badge and support Marines, I think it would be incredibly wrong for Enablers to wear the badge. IF such a thing were to occur then I'd hope the Naval service's "norm" of gold/ silver badges be followed.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2014)

Do enables have an assessment and selection?


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## AWP (Sep 20, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Do enables have an assessment and selection?


 
Some do and receive a different MOS if I recall right. We have a few of them on the board, so I'll let them fill in any blanks.


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## Teufel (Sep 20, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> I was hoping you would post on this, was very curious to what your opinion would be.
> 
> Back in the early 90's we had  just the EGA ironed on to the pocket.  When order came down to add a name tag patch, the SNCO's at the time had mini-meltdowns.  "The beginning of the end they cried, Al Gray (current CMC at time) is trying to make us look like the Army!"   I always thought seeing the SCUBA or "wings" above the left breast pocket were cool to see though.
> 
> In my non-MARSOC rated thinking, my initial instinct is that someone thought that MARSOC Marines need more exposure when among the ranks, and if the SEAL's can have their trident, (forgive me if that should be capitaliized), then we should be able to have something too.



I don't have a problem with MARSOC getting a badge.  I think that particular badge is fairly gaudy.  I've always liked my gold wings and dive bubble, which honestly I don't wear very often.  This badge is somewhat disingenuous though because while the insignia incorporates diving and parachuting aspects into the badge, an ITC graduate does not graduate with those qualifications and may never become a diver.  This would be further compounded if they grant this badge to all MARSOC Marines, which to me is just bizarre, and you have a Special Operations Truck Driver [aka the MARSOC SgtMaj] running around with this huge jump-dive-rifle-skull smorgasboard when all he's qualified to do is color within the lines and put foot to gas pedal.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2014)

Teufel said:


> I don't have a problem with MARSOC getting a badge.  I think that particular badge is fairly gaudy.  I've always liked my gold wings and dive bubble, which honestly I don't wear very often.  This badge is somewhat disingenuous though because while the insignia incorporates diving and parachuting aspects into the badge, an ITC graduate does not graduate with those qualifications and may never become a diver.  This would be further compounded if they grant this badge to all MARSOC Marines, which to me is just bizarre, and you have a Special Operations Truck Driver [aka the MARSOC SgtMaj] running around with this huge jump-dive-rifle-skull smorgasboard when all he's qualified to do is color within the lines and put foot to gas pedal.


Agree 100%.
Not my lane, but I'll drive through anyway.
Making a badge is great, as long as it represents the skillset shared by 100% of the CSO's.
I am willing to bet a non-dive qualified guy (Marine) will be a wee-bit embarrassed wearing a badge that gives the impression he is dive qualified.


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## brokenjar03 (Sep 20, 2014)

It is interesting how OAF has not had a follow-up on the issue since May. It's also interesting they're the only ones who've reported on it. I can only hope it's in the design shop, and being redeveloped to represent the skill-set of all CSO's appropriately. They deserve to be distinguished amongst peers. 

The MARSOC arrowhead would be a great alternative.


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## Stanimal (Sep 20, 2014)

After having worked closely with other SOF units, I recognize the importance of a distinguishing device so people know who they are dealing with.  It makes a difference in the eyes of operators when you see that badge, trident or tab.  It grants some immediate credibility, unless the operator in question proves otherwise through words or actions.    Personally, I feel that the current wings and bubble already fills the requirement adequately.  The only problem is when you have a CSO who is a subject matter expert on a particular topic, yet has no insert schools.  If he were briefing a mixture of operators from across SOCOM, would his opinions or thoughts be discounted because he didn't have a badge?  I doubt it.  So long as he conducted himself in a professional manner and knew his shit, the others would listen. 
The badge in the photo, or one of similar design, only makes sense if Basic Airborne, Freefall and Combatant Dive become part of the existing ITC pipeline.  That is not likely to happen any time soon due to the sheer time frame associated.  ITC plus language and insert schools equates to over two years in a pipeline before you have a deployable operator.  That's not even counting the recruiting and Assessment & Selection process.


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## AWP (Sep 20, 2014)

Stanimal said:


> ITC plus language and insert schools equates to over two years in a pipeline before you have a deployable operator.  That's not even counting the recruiting and Assessment & Selection process.


 
Which is something other SOF organizations already do. I'm sure you're well aware of that, but I state it to frame my follow-on: What is the likelihood of MARSOC/ the Marine Corps being "flexible" (for lack of a better word) enough to rethink the entry pipeline in 2-3 years after MARSOC's matured/ been around a bit longer? As an outsider even I know the USMC isn't keen on change or individuality and MARSOC has already bucked a lot of trends in a short period of time: a new MOS, possible/ probable Officer stability within the command, reclaiming the "Raider" heritage, potentially the badge...that's a lot of political capital where the parent organization is probably grinding its teeth. On top of that, would you or the organization rather send a guy off to an insertion school after they've arrived or have them check into the unit with that school already acquired? If the need for a school is there and it can be added to the pipeline, then why not include the school?


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## Brian1/75 (Sep 20, 2014)

Stanimal said:


> If he were briefing a mixture of operators from across SOCOM, would his opinions or thoughts be discounted because he did'nt have a badge?  I doubt it.  So long as he conducted himself in a professional manner and knew his shit, the others would listen.


I never once saw a Ranger wear a scroll or tab overseas and I'm pretty sure it's not permitted. I always thought it odd seeing tridents and SF patches in that environment. Pretty sure the JSOC guys didn't feel a need to wear some badge either.


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## Stanimal (Sep 20, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Which is something other SOF organizations already do. I'm sure you're well aware of that, but I state it to frame my follow-on: What is the likelihood of MARSOC/ the Marine Corps being "flexible" (for lack of a better word) enough to rethink the entry pipeline in 2-3 years after MARSOC's matured/ been around a bit longer? As an outsider even I know the USMC isn't keen on change or individuality and MARSOC has already bucked a lot of trends in a short period of time: a new MOS, possible/ probable Officer stability within the command, reclaiming the "Raider" heritage, potentially the badge...that's a lot of political capital where the parent organization is probably grinding its teeth. On top of that, would you or the organization rather send a guy off to an insertion school after they've arrived or have them check into the unit with that school already acquired? If the need for a school is there and it can be added to the pipeline, then why not include the school?



Of course, we have always wished for a complete pipeline in which operators receive not only basic training in special operations, but also insert schools.  I feel that other SOF organizations are large enough, and have enough operators, to be able to afford a really long pipeline.  MARSOC has only about 700+ operators, and we represent only about 5% of SOCOM as a whole.  The bottom line is, a MARSOC operator doesn't require the ability to jump and dive in order to be good at his job.  Please understand, I'm not defending the lack of a pipeline.  I would love to see it, but I also understand why it hasn't been put into place yet.  To build on some of the things you said, I have seen some dramatic improvements in the past few years.  Namely, the addition of language onto the end of ITC, and a closed career loop for Special Operations Officers.  Of course, the officer thing brings other issues with it, but I'm sure there is another thread for that.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2014)

Stanimal said:


> Of course, we have always wished for a complete pipeline in which operators receive not only basic training in special operations, but also insert schools.  I feel that other SOF organizations are large enough, and have enough operators, to be able to afford a really long pipeline.  MARSOC has only about 700+ operators, and we represent only about 5% of SOCOM as a whole.  The bottom line is, a MARSOC operator doesn't require the ability to jump and dive in order to be good at his job.  Please understand, I'm not defending the lack of a pipeline.  I would love to see it, but I also understand why it hasn't been put into place yet.  To build on some of the things you said, I have seen some dramatic improvements in the past few years.  Namely, the addition of language onto the end of ITC, and a closed career loop for Special Operations Officers.  Of course, the officer thing brings other issues with it, but I'm sure there is another thread for that.


Why not just add basic airborne to the pipe and have evryone with one stndard insert school coming out of training?


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## Teufel (Sep 20, 2014)

The other thing about this badge is that it is really just a recon jack of all trades (referred to as the recon jack) that most recon guys have tattooed on their bodies somewhere with a spade behind it.  I know there are a lot of recon guys in MARSOC but recon still exists in the Marine Corps and MARSOC shouldn't just bogart the recon jack and give it to non-Recon Marines.  

Not that anyone cares, but I think the badge would look better, and probably meet less resistance, if it was simpler.  Something like a smaller spade with the fairbairn-sykes dagger in the middle with some wings coming off the spade since every CSO will be jump qualified shortly after finishing ITC.  Also, I think it's really cool but I'm not sure the Marine Corps is going to get behind a badge with a skull on it.  

The Marine Corps is very resistant to badges.  Almost all of the badges we have are actually Naval badges that both services recognize.  That's why we have jump/dive.  It was hard enough to get a different badge for Marine Combatant Dive school and even that is in use for both the Navy and Marine Corps if you go to the school (Marine Combatant Dive school is a joint course and all services may attend.  I had 5 CCTs in my dive school class).

MARSOC has been trying to push a lot of stuff forward lately.  The officer MOS and this badge were on top of the list.  If I was MARSOC, I'd be more worried about my survival as a community.  Right now the entire Marine Corps is paranoid about its survival.  Which honestly is something we always struggle with but it holds especially true now in this era of budget cuts and personnel reductions.  A lot of guys with stars on their collars are freaking out over keeping the Marine Corps alive right now and my recommendation to MARSOC (and all Marines) is not to rock the boat right now or someone may push you overboard.  Remember that MARSOC is largely funded and fed by the Marine Corps, the coupon cutting military service in the DOD that reuses ziploc bags, eats the generic brand breakfast cereals and gets hand me downs from their sister services.  SOCOM gives MARSOC some money but Mommy Marine Corps pays the bulk of it.  

Let's also not forget that the Marine Corps secretly hates MARSOC and recon because it's a constant reminder that while all Marines are elite and special, some Marines are a bit more elite and special than others.  This badge debate would not be an issue in any other service but will create visceral reactions at HQMC by straight leg infantry officers who don't like anyone who isn't doesn't shave the sides of their heads in the morning.  Like I've said before, the Marine part of Marine Special Operations is both the best and worst part of MARSOC.  Great on the operator level, less than ideal the higher in the chain you go unfortunately.  MARSOC has gotten several victories recently, all of which are going to aggravate Mother Marine Corps.  The tie back to the Raiders, the officer primary MOS and now this badge are things that General Amos has blessed off on (except the badge so far) as he went out the door.  Don't mistake one General's actions for HQMC acceptance.  Call me a cynic but I think there are a lot of high ranking Marines holding knives waiting for an opportunity to thrust them into MARSOC's collective back.


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## Stanimal (Sep 20, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Why not just add basic airborne to the pipe and have evryone with one stndard insert school coming out of training?



It is my understanding that Basic Airborne is in the works for ITC.  It has been on the table for some time now.  This is purely speculation on my part, but I can guess at what one of the hold ups might be.  It may come down to quotas.  MARSOC would have to work out a deal with the Army in order to get an allotment of annual quotas sufficient enough to send every ITC graduate.  If MARSOC takes that many quotas, where does that leave other Marine Corps units like Recon or Air Delivery that require a jump capability?  Teufel may be able to speak more intelligently on this than I.


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## dmcgill (Sep 20, 2014)




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## Teufel (Sep 20, 2014)

Stanimal said:


> It is my understanding that Basic Airborne is in the works for ITC.  It has been on the table for some time now.  This is purely speculation on my part, but I can guess at what one of the hold ups might be.  It may come down to quotas.  MARSOC would have to work out a deal with the Army in order to get an allotment of annual quotas sufficient enough to send every ITC graduate.  If MARSOC takes that many quotas, where does that leave other Marine Corps units like Recon or Air Delivery that require a jump capability?  Teufel may be able to speak more intelligently on this than I.



Honestly, it comes down to this.  The Raider battalions are going to be much more efficient and proactive in securing Airborne quotas for their Marines than any HQ element, MARSOC or otherwise.  The quotas exist to send all their Marines to airborne but we don't have the capability to surge an entire ITC class at once.  The SEALs worked through this by creating their own jump/freefall school.  They got the Army to bless off on this because the SEALs have a lot of pull in SOCOM.  The Marine Corps?  Not so much.  We will always have to depend on the Basic Airborne Course at Benning for basic jump qualifications and we will never have the priority for quotas there.  It's just easier to let the Raider, Recon and other jump units manage their own training pipelines according to their requirements.  If we create a pipeline that add airborne to ITC, you will have a lot of students standing around waiting to go to Benning.  Better that they spend that time at a Raider battalion getting some solid NCO leadership and mentorship.  They've tried to create a pipeline with BRC and the only traction that has received is with Marines heading to Okinawa.


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## BloodStripe (Sep 22, 2014)

HQMC has an ugly rear end. It always seems to show itself when some field grade officer gets a little sand in the clit (sorry ladies) and cannot accept the fact that there are commands in the Corps that deserve a little special attention. It's funny how much MarSoc is hated, yet at the same time used as a heavy recruitment tool. You can't have it both ways. This back and forth attitude of you aren't special, okay now you are, but really you aren't is eventually going to hurt MarSoc and FMF. This was evident in the creation of the 4th MEB. Quick to want to be ahead of the curve but then not really serve a true mission because of politics and shitty leadership. Those same shitty leaders went on to MarSoc and helped fuel some of that same fire. I'm a proud former Marine, but I'll de damned if there isn't times were I wish I could take a butt stock and place it where the sun don't shine in hopes they unfuck themselves.


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## 0699 (Sep 22, 2014)

That badge is more gay than three dudes in a circle around a cookie.

It's GOT to be a joke.

_EDIT: It looks like the badge awarded at the end of the GI Jane movie..._


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## goon175 (Sep 25, 2014)

Ultimately, everyone in SOF wants their respective pipelines to be "better", and their selections to be "harder". As a Ranger, the length of our pipeline has always been a gripe. SF wants MFF in their pipeline. NSW wants language. PJ's want more hair styling training. It's never ending. 

Ultimately, the solution that will never happen, is that there is a joint SOF selection and training course, with each OTC being tailored to the unit they are trying out for. All in the same location, with jump/dive/SERE/language, etc. available. It would be a huge pain in the ass to actually execute, but once in place it would solve all the issues. Plus make the joint environment, more "joint".


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## DA SWO (Sep 25, 2014)

goon175 said:


> Ultimately, everyone in SOF wants their respective pipelines to be "better", and their selections to be "harder". As a Ranger, the length of our pipeline has always been a gripe. SF wants MFF in their pipeline. NSW wants language. PJ's want more hair styling training. It's never ending.
> 
> Ultimately, the solution that will never happen, is that there is a joint SOF selection and training course, with each OTC being tailored to the unit they are trying out for. All in the same location, with jump/dive/SERE/language, etc. available. It would be a huge pain in the ass to actually execute, but once in place it would solve all the issues. Plus make the joint environment, more "joint".


The services could take a small step (I believe the AF is headed that way) by making the initial school co-located, and doing all the common tasks at that location.
The Army's problem (IMO) is the diverse nature of their SOF units.  The core ranger mission is different then the core CA/Psyop/SF mission.  There is some overlap that could be exploited for a common Phase I school.


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## Centermass (Sep 25, 2014)

0699 said:


> That badge is more gay than three dudes in a circle around a cookie.


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## 0699 (Sep 29, 2014)

Centermass said:


>


 
Frosted...


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## Brill (Sep 29, 2014)

Was I the only one who got this:



Teufel said:


> ...the recon jack...



Nope!



0699 said:


> That badge is more gay than three dudes in a circle around a cookie.





0699 said:


> Frosted...


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## Recon4ParaShark (Oct 4, 2014)

Cool Badge....for Recon. Nothing really makes me think of anything but Recon when I look at this badge. Since MARSOC now owns the the Raider name I think it would be cool to design a badge with "Marine Raider" in capital letters with some wreaths ,a dagger(s)  a lightning bolt(s),wings and the Marine Corps Emblem somehow incorporated into the design. Silver and gold for a good contrast.


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## CQB (Oct 4, 2014)

dmcgill said:


> If it is approved for wear by support Marines too, it will carry no real value.
> 
> That's exactly like saying the Personnel Clerk who works in the disbursing section of a SEAL Team rates to wear a Trident.


I'm thinking of creating something awesome with crossed pencils.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 4, 2014)

Recon4ParaShark said:


> Cool Badge....for Recon. Nothing really makes me think of anything but Recon when I look at this badge. Since MARSOC now owns the the Raider name I think it would be cool to design a badge with "Marine Raider" in capital letters with some wreaths ,a dagger(s)  a lightning bolt(s),wings and the Marine Corps Emblem somehow incorporated into the design. Silver and gold for a good contrast.



@Recon4ParaShark thanks for the input, have you looked into vetting yourself here on the site? With a username such as yours it would probably be prudent to do so.


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## x SF med (Oct 4, 2014)

0699 said:


> Frosted...



hate or like.... hate or like...  ah, it's a Marine.... ignore and move on.



CQB said:


> I'm thinking of creating something awesome with crossed pencils.



Lost has already done something like that... on hats...


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## Recon4ParaShark (Oct 4, 2014)

OK, I'll see if I can dig up my Desert Storm DD-214.  I really don't post that much. I can tell you that Sgt Major H. from the book McCoy's Marines was then SNCOIC SSGT H. at ARS Little Creek Va in 87-88. Major K. OIC.


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## CQB (Oct 5, 2014)

Personally like my erstwhile countryman, the digger, I'm going with with homegrown. A green beret, Sykes-Fairbairn & boomerang combination. 
Oh & what ever happened to that My Little Bronie thing?


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## x SF med (Oct 5, 2014)

CQB said:


> Personally like my erstwhile countryman, the digger, I'm going with with homegrown. A green beret, Sykes-Fairbairn & boomerang combination.
> Oh & what ever happened to that My Little Bronie thing?



WHAT????  No beer?   Are you insane?


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## CQB (Oct 5, 2014)

Well, there's beer, natch, that what you use the Sykes for, opening bottles.


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## pardus (Oct 5, 2014)

*Testing Upload a File button.


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## Stanimal (Oct 5, 2014)

pardus said:


> *Testing Upload a File button.



Success!....and a damn fine choice of emblems if I do say so myself.  I can just hear @x SF med sighing as he reads this.  Haha


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## pardus (Oct 5, 2014)

Stanimal said:


> Success!....and a damn fine choice of emblems if I do say so myself.  I can just hear @x SF med sighing as he reads this.  Haha



Well it seemed appropriate.


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## x SF med (Oct 5, 2014)

pardus said:


> *Testing Upload a File button.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 11739



oooooooooooooooh... purty.  or, should that be.... ooooooooooooooh, rah?   we'll sick with purty for now.


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## digrar (Oct 7, 2014)

CQB said:


> A green beret,



Rifle green is the go, that WRAAC/Sherwood green is a bit hard on the eyes...


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## CQB (Oct 7, 2014)

I didn't know We Root Anywhere Anytime Constantly was a colour?


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## CQB (Oct 8, 2014)

Comme Ca! A Sykes works equally well.


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## amlove21 (Oct 9, 2014)

Recon4ParaShark said:


> OK, I'll see if I can dig up my Desert Storm DD-214.  I really don't post that much. I can tell you that Sgt Major H. from the book McCoy's Marines was then SNCOIC SSGT H. at ARS Little Creek Va in 87-88. Major K. OIC.


 Noted. The main issue is with the username. We have a standard on the board that loosely equates to "you arent allowed to have a username that would imply that you are someone who you are not."

So, in the interest of being direct- get vetted, immediately, or pick a new username. Let' call it Sunday evening, shall we?

Thanks in advance!


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## Betenhauser (Feb 18, 2015)

dmcgill said:


> If it is approved for wear by support Marines too, it will carry no real value.
> 
> That's exactly like saying the Personnel Clerk who works in the disbursing section of a SEAL Team rates to wear a Trident.



It should be rated only upon completeion of A&S, ITC, and designation as a CSO.  SOF Support is it's own reward with plenty of billets for interesting/awesome schools like jump, sat com, Breacher's, etc, and the privillege of deploying with world class warriors.

Also, when I was in there was enough overlap in training, with a lot of guys going to dive and jump at some point, that most CSO's rated the dual cool anyway.


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## Centermass (Jun 19, 2015)

As of today, it's now official:



> RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — The Army has the Green Berets, while the Navy is known for the SEALs. *Now, an elite branch of the U.S. Marine Corps (MARSOC) will officially be known as Raiders.*
> 
> 
> The Marines will rename several special operations units as Marine Raiders at a ceremony Friday, resurrecting a moniker made famous by World War II units that carried out risky amphibious and guerrilla operations. The exploits of the original Marine Raiders — who pioneered tactics used by present-day special forces — were captured in books and movies including "Gung Ho!" in 1943 and "Marine Raiders" in 1944.
> ...



Link


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## The Hate Ape (Jun 21, 2015)

Betenhauser said:


> It should be rated only upon completeion of A&S, ITC, and designation as a CSO.  SOF Support is it's own reward with plenty of billets for interesting/awesome schools like jump, sat com, Breacher's, etc, and the privillege of deploying with world class warriors.
> 
> Also, when I was in there was enough overlap in training, with a lot of guys going to dive and jump at some point, that most CSO's rated the dual cool anyway.



Dude, you're churching it up horribly on the support side. As far as world class warriors goes, it goes both ways. MARSOC itself is a very professional organization with a plethera of real world experience in multiple facets of our community, from CSOs to team enablers, to guys with three letter backgrounds and various fleet units - the melting pot sticks it to the GWOT with the best of them. The CSOs, while they are a fantastic capability, are not the only strong arm of the organization and simply put, the warrior class spans along a wide array of MOSs in the unit.


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## Teufel (Jun 22, 2015)

Why don't you guys just go with some variation of the Raider emblem if you're going to insist on a new badge?


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## x SF med (Jun 22, 2015)

Teufel said:


> Why don't you guys just go with some variation of the Raider emblem if you're going to insist on a new badge?



 Common Sense?  A sense of history and lineage?  shutyomouf!!!  Heresy!!!


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## Hangry Bear (Jul 26, 2015)

That badge was a design prototype made by team guys that have little effect on the actual outcome of the badge. It has not yet been decided if Raiders actually deserve a badge (which they do). Once it is decided that they rate a badge, the badge itself (which will not look like this one) will be voted on by the Marine Corps as a whole after it goes through the proper channels (IE the CG, his staff, and many others). There is a Raider patch design in the options if you're wondering. It is not important what the badge looks like, however, as it can be changed after the fact. It is much easier to change the look of the device after the fact than to get the CG and the Marine Corps to say they rate one in the first place.


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## policemedic (Jul 26, 2015)

jjdidtiebuckle said:


> That badge was a design prototype made by team guys that have little effect on the actual outcome of the badge. It has not yet been decided if Raiders actually deserve a badge (which they do). Once it is decided that they rate a badge, the badge itself (which will not look like this one) will be voted on by the Marine Corps as a whole after it goes through the proper channels (IE the CG, his staff, and many others). There is a Raider patch design in the options if you're wondering. It is not important what the badge looks like, however, as it can be changed after the fact. It is much easier to change the look of the device after the fact than to get the CG and the Marine Corps to say they rate one in the first place.



That's really interesting, but I thought you were Delta.


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## Sandman3 (Jul 26, 2015)

This won't be the badge.  There are a few designs that have been submitted.  And eventually we will see something, it's a matter of when at this point.


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## Scubadew (Aug 22, 2016)

MARSOC to receive new breast Insignia > The Official United States Marine Corps Public Website > News Display


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## The Hate Ape (Aug 22, 2016)

Sandman3 said:


> This won't be the badge.  There are a few designs that have been submitted.  And eventually we will see something, it's a matter of when at this point.



Scuba has the right one posted.


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## The Hate Ape (Aug 22, 2016)

As old as May or April, didn't notice the thread though. Real deal.


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## devilbones (Aug 23, 2016)

Thats going to take up a lot of space.  Do you think many Marines are going to continue to wear it once they have earned their wings and scuba bubbles?


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## AWP (Aug 23, 2016)

devilbones said:


> Thats going to take up a lot of space.  Do you think many Marines are going to continue to wear it once they have earned their wings and scuba bubbles?



I'm waiting on the jokes about Trident/ "Budweiser" envy, but that's an observation, not my fight; I like the insignia. The history geek in me really likes the Southern Cross/ Guadalcanal tie-in. I tend to think the Corps does a better job with instilling a legacy in her ranks than the other services in theirs.


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## Brill (Aug 23, 2016)

devilbones said:


> Thats going to take up a lot of space.  Do you think many Marines are going to continue to wear it once they have earned their wings and scuba bubbles?



How does that look on WMs' uniforms?


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## devilbones (Aug 23, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I'm waiting on the jokes about Trident/ "Budweiser" envy, but that's an observation, not my fight; I like the insignia. The history geek in me really likes the Southern Cross/ Guadalcanal tie-in. I tend to think the Corps does a better job with instilling a legacy in her ranks than the other services in theirs.


I think it looks pretty cool but its just big.  The real badge has the eagle looking the other way.  


lindy said:


> How does that look on WMs' uniforms?


Should go nice with the MARPAT scrunci.


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## Hillclimb (Aug 23, 2016)

Loving the butthurt and x 1,000,000 "back in my day, the only badge we needed was the EGA" posts on the articles.


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## Gunz (Aug 23, 2016)

I don't like them omitting the Skull device in the center of that Raider insignia. That's bullshit. It ain't a Raider patch without the skull. Is this PC at work here? Are we afraid of Raiders appearing insensitive? It's _supposed_ to be intimidating. Carlson had a bunch of them made up so they could leave them on the bodies of dead Japanese to instill fear. If you're going to bring something back, _bring it back_.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 23, 2016)

I like it very much - classy.  Subdued yet powerful.  Couple questions:

1)  If a Marine leaves MARSOC for any reason, are they still authorized to wear it?

2)  What do the 5 stars represent?  I did a little Googling and read thru the article, the best I could come up with were the 5 Phases that a Marine must go thru before being awarded the badge?


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## Etype (Aug 23, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> I don't like them omitting the Skull device in the center of that Raider insignia. That's bullshit. It ain't a Raider patch without the skull. Is this PC at work here? Are we afraid of Raiders appearing insensitive? It's _supposed_ to be intimidating. Carlson had a bunch of them made up so they could leave them on the bodies of dead Japanese to instill fear. If you're going to bring something back, _bring it back_.


There was a big push in SF to keep skulls off of team shirts, too.

I'm 50/50 on the matter. The OSS, 1st SSF, and early SF emblems were all very original and specific to some aspect of the unit. The skull emblems usually end up looking like a silly biker tattoo.

I do agree, however, that skull emblems have more of a place in maritime heritage.


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## Devildoc (Aug 23, 2016)

Hillclimb said:


> Loving the butthurt and x 1,000,000 "back in my day, the only badge we needed was the EGA" posts on the articles.



Yeah, well, count me in that group.  Seriously a case of Army envy.


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## AWP (Aug 23, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> 2)  What do the 5 stars represent?  I did a little Googling and read thru the article, the best I could come up with were the 5 Phases that a Marine must go thru before being awarded the badge?



Chesty just shit himself, Marine.

1st Marine Division > About > Insignia


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## devilbones (Aug 23, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I like it very much - classy.  Subdued yet powerful.  Couple questions:
> 
> 1)  If a Marine leaves MARSOC for any reason, are they still authorized to wear it?
> 
> 2)  What do the 5 stars represent?  I did a little Googling and read thru the article, the best I could come up with were the 5 Phases that a Marine must go thru before being awarded the badge?


Its the Southern Cross constellation.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 23, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Chesty just shit himself, Marine.
> 
> 1st Marine Division > About > Insignia



As soon as I saw that link...:wall:

Excuse me for a while - I need to go study my knowledge and then PT myself into unconsciousness.


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## The Hate Ape (Aug 23, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Chesty just shit himself, Marine.
> 
> 1st Marine Division > About > Insignia


LMAO


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## Salt USMC (Aug 23, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> 2)  What do the 5 stars represent?  I did a little Googling and read thru the article, the best I could come up with were the 5 Phases that a Marine must go thru before being awarded the badge?


Chug a can of Fosters, put Waltzing Matilda on repeat and haze your goddamn self


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## TLDR20 (Aug 23, 2016)

It's cute


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## Gunz (Aug 23, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> As soon as I saw that link...:wall:
> 
> Excuse me for a while - I need to go study my knowledge and then PT myself into unconsciousness.



Yes, do that, my brother. And add a few mountain climbers when you regain consciousness. Lest we forget, those same stars are also on the _2nd MARDIV patch_ as well.  The 2nd took over from the 1st on the 'Canal, along with the Americal Div.


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## Hillclimb (Aug 23, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> I don't like them omitting the Skull device in the center of that Raider insignia. That's bullshit. It ain't a Raider patch without the skull. Is this PC at work here? Are we afraid of Raiders appearing insensitive? It's _supposed_ to be intimidating. Carlson had a bunch of them made up so they could leave them on the bodies of dead Japanese to instill fear. If you're going to bring something back, _bring it back_.



I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure we submitted it with the original Raider skull on the hilt. You should have seen the other options. One looked like a turkey that crashed into a stop sign.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Aug 23, 2016)

Hillclimb said:


> I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure we submitted it with the original Raider skull on the hilt. You should have seen the other options. One looked like a turkey that crashed into a stop sign.



Hey, Ben Franklin would be proud..he wanted the Turkey instead of the Eagle...as stories go....


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## Gunz (Aug 23, 2016)

Hillclimb said:


> I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure we submitted it with the original Raider skull on the hilt. You should have seen the other options. One looked like a turkey that crashed into a stop sign.



LOL.

Here's the "reason" the skull didn't make the design. I don't buy the reason. I think PC was at work here behind the scenes. 



heres-why-marsoc-wont-adopt-raiders-patch | MarineCorpsTimes


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## Teufel (Aug 23, 2016)

The Marine Corps will never approve the use of a skull on a new unit logo, patch or badge. Recon units maintain a skull on their logos because of historical reasons.  LAR adopted the use of the skull of their logo when Reconnaissance Marines were folded into LAR battalions in the 90s. The Raiders would have likely been able to keep the skull on their logo if the unit wasn't disbanded in WWII.  

I wonder if SARCs will be able to wear this new badge.  I suspect that they will not.  This would be very unfortunate and may lead to a two or three SOF caste system within MARSOC.


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## Teufel (Aug 23, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I like it very much - classy.  Subdued yet powerful.  Couple questions:
> 
> 1)  If a Marine leaves MARSOC for any reason, are they still authorized to wear it?
> 
> 2)  What do the 5 stars represent?  I did a little Googling and read thru the article, the best I could come up with were the 5 Phases that a Marine must go thru before being awarded the badge?



Here is a link that explains a lot about the badge.
La Tlmes


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 23, 2016)

Teufel said:


> La Tlmes



:wall: I freeking knew it.:wall:  

I going to go back and PT some more, sir.  And then once more for clicking the link.


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## Devildoc (Aug 23, 2016)

Teufel said:


> I wonder if SARCs will be able to wear this new badge.  I suspect that they will not.  This would be very unfortunate and may lead to a two or three SOF caste system within MARSOC.



OK, the longer I am out the less current my gouge is....

It is my understanding that SARCs assigned to MARSOC come out of the SARCSs assigned to Recon and can change billets interchangeably.  So as to your point, I imagine not.


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## Gunz (Aug 23, 2016)

delete


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## dmcgill (Aug 24, 2016)

It does look like a cheesy moto tat some boot would get out of basic training. Figures the powers that be would select the cheesiest one. Unfortunate for team guys.


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## CDG (Aug 24, 2016)

Some other ideas: MARSOC’s New Badge Should Be Replaced With One Of These 5 Insignias


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## Global Menace (Oct 23, 2016)

Teufel said:


> The only badge I ever needed to feel cool was the Eagle, Globe and Anchor.


Me too...but the only reason I say that is because I never earned anything else.


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## The Hate Ape (Oct 24, 2016)

A few of my buddies have discussed the idea / seeing insignias getting customized with the raider piece etched into it's rightful spot. There's been mixed feedback with that with some supporting it as a "hell yeah, screw the man" kind of mentality and some going "that is going to get our shit taken away."

I know even more people who don't really give a shit at all. They probably secretly love their flash though.


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