# Parris Island recruits had a ‘choice’ to go to ‘war’ — here’s what happened:



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 30, 2017)

Huh.

I do not recall this happening when I went to bootcamp. My initial instinct is non-approval of this type of "training" at bootcamp. 

Parris Island recruits had a ‘choice’ to go to ‘war’ — here’s what happened

Rebekah Kind knew something was different when she tried to leave the classroom to refill her canteen.

Kind, then a 28-year-old trainee from Zion, Ill., at Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island in summer 2016, was usually allowed to get water during lectures such as this one — staying hydrated was encouraged.

Not this time, though: She was ordered to sit down, and moments later a male Marine with an official-looking folder entered the room, which halted the history lesson on the Korean War....


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## Marine0311 (Apr 30, 2017)

I do not recall it but I agree with it. Good.




I do remember the fake scenario when a DI walked in during our class in the large auditorium and began to say we were going to be deployed tomorrow, blab blah blah.....then pulled the fast one and said this is what happened to Marines before? or  during Korea.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 30, 2017)

Seems like kind of an unnecessary mindfuck.  Would like to see more before making up my mind but as I understand it now, I wouldn't allow that in any POI I was responsible for.


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## AWP (Apr 30, 2017)

That is stupid as hell. What purpose does it serve? We can't "break" recruits enough at Basic, now we have to do this nonsense?


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## Grunt (Apr 30, 2017)

In plain terms, I think it's stupid! No one is any better for it.


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## Topkick (Apr 30, 2017)

WTF? Ridiculous. There is enough going on and they've already volunteered to serve.


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## DocIllinois (Apr 30, 2017)

The Marine Corps expects all recruits who are midway through a Boot Camp cycle to have nailed down, and act upon, the genuine reasons they'd go into combat?

Interesting.


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## Muppet (May 1, 2017)

Nonsense. I'm all about training but this is plain retarded and not training.

M.


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## SpitfireV (May 1, 2017)

How weird. It seems to me you'd be better off getting some combat veterans in there and having a hard discussion about combat than this.


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## Gunz (May 1, 2017)

What about the recruits who have loved ones in the cities supposedly under attack? How are they supposed to feel? Absolute contrived mind-fuck bullshit.

DIs and instructors _do_ pull this kind of crap once in a while, shit they can laugh at together later at Beer Call. But I've never heard of it pulled to this extreme. Here's an example of a "harmless" mind-fuck: In our 1st week, we're standing in front of our racks at attention. The SDI introduces us to a Gunnery Sergeant holding a clipboard. The Gunny says: "All right recruits, listen up. This is the last opportunity for you to apply for an inter-service transfer before we get into the next phase of training. How many of you wish to transfer to the Army?" A few hands are raised. Names are taken. "How many to the Navy?" A few more hands are raised. Names taken. "How many to the Air Force?" The most hands are raised. Names are taken. The Gunny hands the clipboard to our SDI and says: "Staff Sergeant Kaiser, here's a list of your motherfuckin traitors."

Bends and thrusts, ready begin.

The Gunny was our own Series Gunny.


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## AWP (May 1, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> DIs and instructors _do_ pull this kind of crap once in a while, shit they can laugh at together later at Beer Call. But I've never heard of it pulled to this extreme. Here's an example of a "harmless" mind-fuck: In our 1st week, we're standing in front of our racks at attention. The SDI introduces us to a Gunnery Sergeant holding a clipboard. The Gunny says: "All right recruits, listen up. This is the last opportunity for you to apply for an inter-service transfer before we get into the next phase of training. How many of you wish to transfer to the Army?" A few hands are raised. Names are taken. "How many to the Navy?" A few more hands are raised. Names taken. "How many to the Air Force?" The most hands are raised. Names are taken. The Gunny hands the clipboard to our SDI and says: "Staff Sergeant Kaiser, here's a list of your motherfuckin traitors."



This is beautiful. THIS is how you mess with recruits/ trainees.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 1, 2017)

Now THAT'S Funny shit, I don't care you ya are!


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## kb2012 (May 2, 2017)

I think if anything it reinforces the brotherhood that exists. It teaches them a lesson about turning your back on people when the going gets tough. It's the same as the constant mindfuck at OCS where they keep reminding you that you can drop on request, they're gonna put you on a DOR board because you don't have what it takes, etc. That was a big teachable moment for us at OCS. If you DOR, you're done. You never get to come back. Ever. We don't want you. We need guys that are gonna stick with it through the hard shit. It's a reinforcement mechanism for being a part of the team. I bet they'll never forget that lesson for their entire Marine Corps career. 

If they're berated and physically abused by staff because of their answer, then yeah that's a problem. But if they just allow the recruits to sort it out among themselves I see no problem with it.


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## Gunz (May 2, 2017)

kb2012 said:


> I think if anything it reinforces the brotherhood that exists. It teaches them a lesson about turning your back on people when the going gets tough. It's the same as the constant mindfuck at OCS where they keep reminding you that you can drop on request, they're gonna put you on a DOR board because you don't have what it takes, etc. That was a big teachable moment for us at OCS. If you DOR, you're done. You never get to come back. Ever. We don't want you. We need guys that are gonna stick with it through the hard shit. It's a reinforcement mechanism for being a part of the team. I bet they'll never forget that lesson for their entire Marine Corps career.
> 
> If they're berated and physically abused by staff because of their answer, then yeah that's a problem. But if they just allow the recruits to sort it out among themselves I see no problem with it.



Hard disagree. There are better ways to do this and most of those better ways are already incorporated into recruit training at both MCRDs and have been SOP for many years. Telling 17-18 year old recruits that their families might have been wiped out in a terrorist attack is _not _the way to go. The Marine Corps has been fighting and winning some of the bloodiest battles ever fought for more than 200 years, and will continue to do so...without this kind of contrived bullshit. Honor, Courage, Commitment.

Your profile says you're an officer candidate. Now's the time to learn the difference between acceptable and unacceptable mind-fucks.


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## Topkick (May 2, 2017)

I would think it violates trust in their leadership. NCO's should always be straight up and truthful with their subordinates. Keep them informed at all times. Seems counter-productive to me.


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## kb2012 (May 2, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Telling 17-18 year old recruits that their families might have been wiped out in a terrorist attack is _not _the way to go.


Well that I can agree with. I was replying to the example about switching to the Army, Navy, and Air Force. I should have quoted that post.


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## DocIllinois (May 2, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I would think it violates trust in their leadership. NCO's should always be straight up and truthful with their subordinates. Keep them informed at all times. Seems counter-productive to me.



In the operational force, yes.  In certain training environments, not so much for certain purposes, IMO.

Lying to trainees by feeding them two version of information on an upcoming event or expectation, in order to sow discord and reinforce the fact that a timely leadership decision needs made in such ambiguous situations, happens in small unit leadership schools, for instance.

Something of this nature is different than being untruthful to identify new recruits who are unwilling to quickly enter close combat, IMHO - recruits who are still smack in the middle of making their initial transition from the civilian to military environment.


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## policemedic (May 2, 2017)

I think there is a potential here for long-term harm resulting from what is essentially an unsupervised (and likely unapprovable) psychology experiment.


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## Topkick (May 2, 2017)

DocIllinois said:


> In the operational force, yes.  In certain training environments, not so much for certain purposes, IMO.
> 
> Lying to trainees by feeding them two version of information on an upcoming event or expectation, in order to sow discord and reinforce the fact that a timely leadership decision needs made in such ambiguous situations, happens in small unit leadership schools, for instance.
> 
> Something of this nature is different than being untruthful to identify new recruits who are unwilling to quickly enter close combat, IMHO - recruits who are still smack in the middle of making their initial transition from the civilian to military environment.



I see where your going and you make a good point. Hell, training usually does require a false narrative. But. as I stated in an earlier post, we have enough CQB going on around the globe and anyone who enters the Army or Marines has already volunteered to participate. You will always have Objectors and people who try to get out of deployments when the orders come down, whether you play mind- games or not.


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## Topkick (May 2, 2017)

Based on my own experiences as a Cavalry First Sergeant, we had to drag a few soldiers to Iraq. Some came up with every excuse in the book. But when they got there, they chose fight over flight, and did the job at hand. I like to think it was in part because they trusted their  NCO's.


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## Gunz (May 2, 2017)

kb2012 said:


> Well that I can agree with. I was replying to the example about switching to the Army, Navy, and Air Force. I should have quoted that post.



It seemed quite evident you were responding to the OP. Another lesson of leadership. Clarity of communication.


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## Marauder06 (May 2, 2017)

The first of the Army's principles of Mission Command is "build cohesive teams through mutual trust."  Events like this undermine both unit cohesion and trust.  I recognize that this was a Marine unit, but I'm pretty sure cohesion and trust are important in that branch of service as well.


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## BloodStripe (May 4, 2017)

On September 11, 2001 MCRD San Diego pulled all the recruits into the base theater and showed the footage of the events that morning and then allowed the recruits a phone call gone.  My buddy I grew up with who was there at the time asked his mom if it were true, because he honestly believed it was a game the DI's were playing.


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