# Charleston Mass Shooting



## nobodythank you (Jun 18, 2015)

So if you haven't seen yet today, there was a mass shooting in Charleston, SC last night.

*Charleston Shooting: A Timeline of Events*


Aside from the fact that innocent lives were lost, this right here irritates me the most out of this scenario: 
From the NY Times


> Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Mr. Pinckney’s, said in an interview with NBC News that a survivor of the shooting had told her the gunman reloaded *five *times.


 Five??? 

 If South Carolina law had allowed concealed carry in a church there MIGHT have been the chance for someone to engage the shooter. Now I realize that even if it were allowed there is no guarantee that anyone would have been carrying. However, this just boggles my mind and saddens me. Not to sound tasteless, but where was the Shepard while the sheep were being slaughtered by the wolf?


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## Etype (Jun 18, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> Not to sound tasteless, but where was the Shepard while the sheep were being slaughtered by the wolf?


That doesn't sound tasteless, just uninformed.


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## nobodythank you (Jun 18, 2015)

Etype said:


> That doesn't sound tasteless, just uninformed.


You're certainly entitled to you opinion. However incorrect it may be. Thanks for the constructive feedback.


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## Etype (Jun 18, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> You're certainly entitled to you opinion. However incorrect it may be. Thanks for the constructive feedback.


If you truly believed when you died, you were going to heaven- why would you want God to save you from death, and why would He?

I'd like to hear where you think my incorrectness lies.


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## Centermass (Jun 18, 2015)

Personally, I'd wish that our CINC, the media and others........would let those affected by this tragedy, mourn first before politicizing it.


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## nobodythank you (Jun 18, 2015)

Etype said:


> If you truly believed when you died, you were going to heaven- why would you want God to save you from death, and why would He?
> 
> I'd like to hear where you think my incorrectness lies.


Just because you believe in God or Heaven doesn't mean you are anxious to visit them in a hurry. The concept revolves around what happens after you die. More to the point, depending on your interpretation of "God" he is either non-interfering or meddling. You stated I was uninformed, but provided no information to support the statement or explain how I was uninformed. I am admittedly very well biased on that particular subject. However, I was expressing my frustration with the scenario as a whole. That does not in any way make me uninformed. If anything it makes me emotional or concerned. 

We can debate the pros and cons, or even the existence of a deity in another thread/message. This posting was more geared towards the tragedy that occurred in SC.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2015)

Just so we are all on the same page here.  When @Etype references being uninformed, are you talking about the idea that the shooter reloaded 5 times (which I find difficult to believe) or that a "Shepherd" armed with their own gun could have done something, or something even more spiritual?


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## policemedic (Jun 18, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> So if you haven't seen yet today, there was a mass shooting in Charleston, SC last night.
> 
> *Charleston Shooting: A Timeline of Events*
> 
> ...


 
Point of order.  It's legal to carry a concealed firearm in a church in South Carolina, but only if the church leadership allows it.  This puts the onus squarely on the church.

While I would never encourage anyone to break the law, I'd be shocked if an otherwise legal permit holder would be charged with carrying in a church if they ended an event like this.


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## Grunt (Jun 18, 2015)

Truly sad story indeed!

I don't know what the make-up of the church members were that were present at the time, but personally -- maybe it's just me -- I couldn't stand there while he reloaded five times...if that occurred...without bringing down some type of pain on him.

Regardless...Rest In Peace to all the fallen and my sincerest prayers for their families.


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## nobodythank you (Jun 18, 2015)

policemedic said:


> Point of order.  It's legal to carry a concealed firearm in a church in South Carolina, but only if the church leadership allows it.  This puts the onus squarely on the church.
> 
> While I would never encourage anyone to break the law, I'd be shocked if an otherwise legal permit holder would be charged with carrying in a church if they ended an event like this.


Agreed on all counts. Though it is still illegal until permission has been granted by proper authority.
Title 23


> (8) church or other established religious sanctuary unless express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body;


In all likelihood even if it were legal it is less than an even bet someone would have been carrying, much less able to stop the attack. It's just frustrating to see so many needless deaths coupled with the information emerging on how it all went down.


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## AWP (Jun 18, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> Not to sound tasteless, but where was the Shepard while the sheep were being slaughtered by the wolf?



Jesus Christ, are you two arguing about religion or the whole Sheep/ Wolf type argument? A religious debate in a situation like this is a metric ton of crap when framed against 2000-ish years (I'm only addressing Christianity) of human behavior.


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## poison (Jun 19, 2015)

policemedic said:


> Point of order.  It's legal to carry a concealed firearm in a church in South Carolina, but only if the church leadership allows it.  This puts the onus squarely on the church.
> 
> While I would never encourage anyone to break the law, I'd be shocked if an otherwise legal permit holder would be charged with carrying in a church if they ended an event like this.



And if you successfully conclude an incident like this with an illegally carried weapon, who gives a fuck what anyone thinks?


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## policemedic (Jun 19, 2015)

poison said:


> And if you successfully conclude an incident like this with an illegally carried weapon, who gives a fuck what anyone thinks?



I think in a case like this permission would be retroactively granted to the avenging angel who defended the flock.  But I take your meaning, and don't disagree.


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## JBS (Jun 20, 2015)

Interesting OP.

Right now the Left Wing controlled media is taking an NRA executive to task for voicing some of the same opinions as those found in this thread.

http://news.yahoo.com/nra-executive-suggests-slain-charleston-pastor-blame-gun-043458974.html#



> *NRA Blames Dead Pastor for Mass Shooting Massacre*
> 
> In an online thread about Wednesday night's mass shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Church in Charleston, Cotton said that one of the nine people slain, church pastor and Democratic state Senator Clementa Pinckney, had voted against legislation in 2011 that would have allowed concealed possession of handguns in restaurants, day-care centers and churches.
> 
> ...


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 20, 2015)

- Rant On -

Fucking FUCKING NRA.

They can't get out of their own way sometimes; it seems as if every time something like this happens, some brain wizard at NRA Headquarters feels obligated to say "something".

I have a lifetime membership because my gun club requires it, but take a two week dosage of Shut the Fuck up and don't bring attention to yourself- all you do is feed the fire.

Last year they came out against the fucksticks going to Chipotle and Starbucks draped in AR's - I was very pleased, for about 5 minutes. Til they stated taking some heat and backtracked with an apology of some type.

Rant Off.  

There is a difference between "us" having this conversation and the NRA putting that statement out there - libs can come here and find it, but what did they expect to find?  Same way we could go to a board and find a bunch of folks talking about banning all guns - even for cops and the military.

NRA is supposed to be a national voice - use some common sense when you are speaking for me -

That's why I was pissed that Obama put his anti-gun agenda into his national address - not the time or place.


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## Grunt (Jun 20, 2015)

I the world of politics, the shallow and baseless never let a tragedy go to waste.

They utilize it to the best of their ability in order to manipulate the mindless.

I am getting pretty good at not letting it get to me anymore.

Clowns.....


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## AWP (Jun 20, 2015)

Agoge said:


> I the world of politics, the shallow and baseless never let a tragedy go to waste.
> 
> They utilize it to the best of their ability in order to manipulate the mindless.
> 
> ...



This.

The Left and Right alike are lining up to pimp their agendas before the dead are even buried. They hurled themselves at cameras and microphones like Tommies at the Somme...with the same results.

Sickening.

The sad thing is if one side pulls back then the other side garners all of the press! We have this repetitive, self-destructive behavior thanks to "news" outlets and political "necessity". Disgusting.

Blue skies.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 20, 2015)

It is funny, but to me it seems the only people who have been talking about guns as an issue in this tragedy are right wing gun rights activists. This is anectdotal, but my Facebook is a good mix of people, all the far right friends I have are preemptively talking about how this isn't gun owners faults, and all this shit, but I haven't seen any of my leftist friends talking about guns at all, most of them are talking about the racism and mental illness aspects of this tragedy. I do not watch Fox or Any of the other trash, but I haven't seen too many examples of people pushing for gun controls, at least on the personal side of it. 

On a macro scale, obviously people use issues like this as a catalyst to push their agendas through. It is unfortunate but crises is the ideal time to take away something when people don't know what thy are losing.


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## AWP (Jun 20, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> It is funny, but to me it seems the only people who have been talking about guns as an issue in this tragedy are right wing gun rights activists.



I think Chris Hayes didn't go for 15 minutes before there were charts about gun violence in America as part of his broadcast. Fox also brought out the derp, but in a different way. There isn't a "rabble rabble" like we saw after Sandy Hook, but it is there.


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## Ex3 (Jun 20, 2015)

It's not about guns or gun rights. This country has a race problem. I can't believe that we still do after all this time, but there it is. 

It makes my heart hurt to think that a young man brought up in this day and age could have such hatred in him for people who are a different color than he is. 

I have no idea what the solution is, but this reality makes me cry.


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## DA SWO (Jun 20, 2015)

Ex3 said:


> It's not about guns or gun rights. This country has a race problem. I can't believe that we still do after all this time, but there it is.
> 
> It makes my heart hurt to think that a young man brought up in this day and age could have such hatred in him for people who are a different color than he is.
> 
> I have no idea what the solution is, but this reality makes me cry.


Maybe the race baiters should stop calling for a race war?


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## TLDR20 (Jun 20, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Maybe the race baiters should stop calling for a race war?



Wait what? What are you saying here?


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## Kraut783 (Jun 20, 2015)

*"Mourning Charleston, Obama calls for stricter gun laws"
*
"We don't have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun," Obama said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/18/obama-charleston-statement/28919199/

Here we go again.......let's bury the victims first Mr. President.


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## Salt USMC (Jun 20, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> Maybe the race baiters should stop calling for a race war?


What?  You mean like the shooter?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/index.html


> A drunken Dylann Storm Roof boasted one night about an unspecified six-month plan "to do something crazy," his friend Joey Meek told CNN on Friday.
> 
> The young man typically kept to himself but a liter of vodka that night seemed to fuel talk about the *return of segregation and vague plans "to start a race war,"* Meek recalled.
> 
> ...


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## JBS (Jun 20, 2015)

Ex3 said:


> It's not about guns or gun rights. This country has a race problem. I can't believe that we still do after all this time, but there it is.
> 
> It makes my heart hurt to think that a young man brought up in this day and age could have such hatred in him for people who are a different color than he is.
> 
> I have no idea what the solution is, but this reality makes me cry.



It's a daily occurrence.  On all sides- white-on-black, and also black-on-white, and every other race.   It's not an American problem, it's a human problem.  In Europe, it's roving gangs of North African Arabs assaulting white Europeans; in China, there's a whole range of racist and ethnic bias categories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China 

I could easily go on, but you get my point.   I'm not in the least surprised.  It (the issue) just doesn't touch many of us, so we don't pay any attention to it.  But I bet LEO's on this board will attest to seeing it on a daily basis.



DA SWO said:


> Maybe the race baiters should stop calling for a race war?



I see this on all sides of the racism issue.   I've seen Mexican demonstration groups calling for race wars, Black African groups calling for militant uprisings, and whites.   



Kraut783 said:


> *"Mourning Charleston, Obama calls for stricter gun laws"
> *
> "We don't have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun," Obama said.
> 
> ...



Another "the police acted stupidly" moment.


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## AWP (Jun 20, 2015)

People have hated people of another (insert category here) since the dawn of time, yet we're shocked when this happens?

That doesn't make it right, but that's just the way it is. You could kill off every (insert group here) and we'll still have haters looking for another group to slaughter.


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## DA SWO (Jun 20, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> What?  You mean like the shooter?
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/index.html


Yes, him, David Duke (if he is still breathing), The Nation of Islam, The New Black Panther Party; all of those oxygen thieves.


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## AWP (Jun 20, 2015)

I think one thing that bothers me about these events, specifically our reaction to them, is X on X crime is rarely mentioned. Some racist/ bigot/ whatever takes his/ her angst out on "the enemy" and people go crazy. Black on black crime for example rarely receives this much coverage. It results in a story here and there, but days and days of front page news? Nope.

These mass shootings are also rare compared to the day in and day out murder across our nation. A mass shooting means we need to discuss national issues, but the daily, garden variety violence doesn't even register?

Hypocrites.

Black lives don't matter. White lives don't matter. Gay people don't matter.....because all lives matter. People MATTER.

I'm an asshole and even I understand that basic arithmetic.


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## Grunt (Jun 20, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> ...even I understand that basic arithmetic.



Indeed you do understand it...and rightfully so.

The only difference is...you don't have a personal agenda that you are trying to push onto society.

You have thoughts that have the purpose of bettering society as a whole...which totally goes against the "machine."


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## Ex3 (Jun 21, 2015)

I thought this hit the nail on the head.


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## policemedic (Jun 21, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> I think one thing that bothers me about these events, specifically our reaction to them, is X on X crime is rarely mentioned. Some racist/ bigot/ whatever takes his/ her angst out on "the enemy" and people go crazy. Black on black crime for example rarely receives this much coverage. It results in a story here and there, but days and days of front page news? Nope.



Along those lines, has anyone heard of this mass shooting? 

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/29369964/mantua-party-shooting 

I'm betting no one has.  It's not in the news story but one victim has been pronounced and another doesn't look good. 

For context, this happened just a few minutes away from where @Muppet and @Viper1 and I had lunch.   My guys are already on the hunt. 




Freefalling said:


> IBlack lives don't matter. White lives don't matter. Gay people don't matter.....because all lives matter. People MATTER.



Amen.  It's a shameful comment on our society when anyone loses their life to needless violence. 



Freefalling said:


> I'm an asshole ...



Well, you put it out there. It's the first step on a journey of self-discovery and improvement. Congratulations, brother!


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