# National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)



## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2020)

September 27, 2020

This is your official National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion thread. It is a merge of both.

Anything and everything "social" related should go into this thread. If a new thread Social related is started, there is a VERY good chance it will be merged into this thread without notice or fanfare.

- staff

Why is it okay to loot?  I refuse to excuse one crime for another.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265804978792341504


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## R.Caerbannog (May 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why is it okay to loot?  I refuse to excuse one crime for another.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265804978792341504


Here's a KSTP-TV livestream.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3410675198963041


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## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2020)

Literally 10 minutes from my home. 
Good times.


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## R.Caerbannog (May 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Literally 10 minutes from my home.
> Good times.


They closed off the highway entry ramps to prevent more people flooding the area to loot, but it also means that those people are gonna be concentrated in your area. 

Only thing I can say is brew a pot of coffee and hunker down if you're in the immediate area, cause it looks like those people are gonna be there a while.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Only thing I can say is brew a pot of coffee and hunker down if you're in the immediate area, cause it looks like those people are gonna be there a while.


Just far enough into the burbs to feel 'safe'.  This would be the wrong neighborhood to pull that shit though.  LOL


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## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2020)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis....at I Target I was at literally 2 days ago.....and tonight if the wind changes I'll smell the CS gas.

I'm not joking when I tell you that a few of my neighbors and I have set up "fire watch" til tomorrow morning.  I've got the midnight shift.

When I say "I don't understand", I'll be told, "that's right!  You don't understand!"...but....

What good does looting businesses (especially Target, the most Social Justice of them all) and bringing your kids.  What I would LOVE to know, is that the folks pictured here, how many could point out George Floyd in a photo, or for that matter even know what they are protesting about?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265824713441509376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265844532882612224


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## NovemberWhiskey (May 28, 2020)

Yeah @Ooh-Rah, that shit is sick.

Totally understandable crowd behavior in high tension situations, but still sick none the less and these looters' responsibility.

The would be politicalness of it is just an excuse IMO.

Fingers x'd for least hurt people, offending parties ceasing their insanity, and thanks for both the personal heads up and protecting people.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis....at I Target I was at literally 2 days ago.....and tonight if the wind changes I'll smell the CS gas.
> 
> I'm not joking when I tell you that a few of my neighbors and I have set up "fire watch" til tomorrow morning.  I've got the midnight shift.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's bullshit all around.  I actually drove through there the other night just before the that guy was killed as well.  Not a super awesome area even when they don't have riots taking place. 

National Guard assistance was requested.  I've never understood the riot mentality, especially when they destroy their own neighborhoods. Fucking people.


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## AWP (May 28, 2020)

Given that his death is news and a few have commented on it elsewhere, I thought I'd create a thread for discussion. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about:

Video shows Minneapolis cop with knee on neck of motionless, moaning man who later died

Death of George Floyd - Wikipedia

And we have riots, looting, and one death.

Protest over George Floyd death turns violent, deadly in Minneapolis

There are a billion stories on this right now, so don't be afraid to Google.


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## RustyShackleford (May 28, 2020)

Where are the rooftop Koreans when Minneapolis needs them?


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## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

Can't find this any where but Facebook but this is a good compilation video of snapchats from the area.   Pure bullshit chaos.  





__ https://www.facebook.com/893664343984762/posts/4164493083568522


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Nothing says “justice” like a free flatscreen.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Nothing says “justice” like a free flatscreen.


And burning businesses that had nothing to do with the event and are there to help improve your neighborhood. ☹


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)




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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

That video is fucking disgusting. 

"He can talk, he's fine."

Until he loses consciousness and the cop keeps kneeling on him for another 4ish minutes. For what?

He had three officers holding him down the entire time until the medics arrived, all over "suspected forgery"?

Videos like this are why people outside the LEO/military circles get the A.C.A.B. mindset


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## ThunderHorse (May 28, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Where are the rooftop Koreans when Minneapolis needs them?



I count two Rednecks, but also a man of color.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265839057994764288
Here's some raw bodycam footage...but nothing from when they were in contact with Floyd.  RAW: Minneapolis Park Police Release New BodyCam Footage Of Fatal Arrest of George Floyd - Breaking911


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## Grunt (May 28, 2020)

I'm never shocked when the parasites of society feast on the backs of a single incident so they can commit their thievery as a sign of wanting justice. Nothing says "Let's make our world a better place" than some good ole theft.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

And "protestors" are reportedly expected in downtown Minneapolis later today, starting around 5pm.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> And "protestors" are reportedly expected in downtown Minneapolis later today, starting around 5pm.


That’s because their flights do not get into town until about 3 PM.


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## ThunderHorse (May 28, 2020)

Shapiro's take:


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shapiro's take:


I can only watch about 45 second that guy but in that 45 sec, he already has facts wrong.  Floyd was already in handcuffs and was being escorted by 2 officers across the street to another patrol car prior to whatever led up to the cop kneeling on his neck.


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## ThunderHorse (May 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I can only watch about 45 second that guy but in that 45 sec, he already has facts wrong.  Floyd was already in handcuffs and was being escorted by 2 officers across the street to another patrol car prior to whatever led up to the cop kneeling on his neck.


Probably has them wrong because they aren't clear.


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## Devildoc (May 28, 2020)

I have so many questions and so many opinions... just probably best to keep my pie hole shut...

In a convo earlier I asked, "I wonder if it's truly a 'racial' thing, or a 'cop power trip' thing?", and was told I am a racist because I even asked the question.  When I pointed out this has in fact happened to white people, the accuser doubled down.  So there's that.

@Ooh-Rah you be safe up there, you hear?


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I have so many questions and so many opinions... just probably best to keep my pie hole shut...
> 
> In a convo earlier I asked, "I wonder if it's truly a 'racial' thing, or a 'cop power trip' thing?", and was told I am a racist because I even asked the question.  When I pointed out this has in fact happened to white people, the accuser doubled down.  So there's that.
> 
> @Ooh-Rah you be safe up there, you hear?


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That’s because their flights do not get into town until about 3 PM.


As I was saying...

Police chief: Much of riot damage caused by those from outside Minneapolis


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Probably has them wrong because they aren't clear.


It's clear.  Here is video of the part I described.  
Dragon Wok surveillance video shows moments before George Floyd arrest

What's not clear is what happened after he was brought over to the other patrol vehicle that resulted in him being on the ground with an officer kneeling on his neck.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In a convo earlier I asked, "I wonder if it's truly a 'racial' thing, or a 'cop power trip' thing?", and was told I am a racist because I even asked the question.  When I pointed out this has in fact happened to white people, the accuser doubled down.  So there's that.


I think your question was fair.  I don't know that this was truly racially motivated; I'm not sure race really play a role here.  But, hey, let's not let that get in the way of a "good time".


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> As I was saying...
> 
> Police chief: Much of riot damage caused by those from outside Minneapolis


Yeah,  I'm sure there were some but there are plenty of fuckwits there as well.


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## Muppet (May 28, 2020)

Fucking shit show. Many cop friends of mine, most are calling the cops out for the abuse/murder of Mr. Floyd. A couple cop friends of mine are reserving judgment till further investigation. 

My take as a paramedic/former SWAT medic? Positional asphyxia kills, I've treated it, I've seen hyped cops holding dudes down after a chase and I have politely intervened by saying, bro, roll him over so I can check him out. 

I've educated cops on this and excited delirium (probably not that for this case), many are positive about understanding it and will call us I'd suspected. 

That said, I'm not sure what constitutes murder, I'm not a cop or lawyer but this cop is responsible for the death of Mr. Floyd when all the cop needed to do was roll him onto his side when Mr. Floyd was begging, should have never been in that position anyhow.

Now, good cops, like my brother in law and many friends, including our very own, Policemedic, all that abide by their oaths, upholding our constitution will, again, be labeled as pigs, crooked and any other name.

Meanwhile, what was something I would definitely stand behind, of the peaceful protests over his death, turns into hoodlums, needing a reason to loot, burn their own hoods. 

You lost me when you went from wanting justice, Mr. Floyd received no due process, instead, is dead, now, a fucking abortion.

Keep your heads on swivels...


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Muppet said:


> My take as a paramedic/former SWAT medic? Positional asphyxia kills, I've treated it, I've seen hyped cops holding dudes down after a chase and I have politely intervened by saying, bro, roll him over so I can check him out.


George Floyd showed no signs of life from time EMS arrived, fire department report says


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## AWP (May 28, 2020)

What happened is a goddamned travesty.

I still don't understand how it is automatically racism.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

St. Paul Midway (another shitty area) is getting an early start on the looting today.  Target and other stores being overrun.

Surprisingly, have heard very little about trouble in North Minneapolis.  Probably biding their time.


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## Devildoc (May 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> I still don't understand how it is automatically racism.



Because it's an easy dead horse to beat: you don't have to look at deeper issues (real or perceived), you don't need corporate accountability, and you don't require trust or respect to make the assertion.

The people making the assertion have nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## Muppet (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> George Floyd showed no signs of life from time EMS arrived, fire department report says



Not surprised. He was apyxitated. He had chances to survive, multiple times, including not being forced and held into that position, brain anoxia starts 3 to 4 mins, resp arrest, cardiac arrest soon after.


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## Muppet (May 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> What happened is a goddamned travesty.
> 
> I still don't understand how it is automatically racism.



Because, many folks are kept and believe in the victim mentality, fanned by the government and media. Gotta maintain that narrative of racial hatred instead of fucking cunt, dick head cops not doing their job.

Lots of good cops will suffer now, the cronies like Sharpton, Jackson, Obama will weigh in too.

I won't be ignorant and say, there are not obvious race issues in our country but not all is race related.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Because, many folks are kept and believe in the victim mentality, fanned by the government and media. Gotta maintain that narrative of racial hatred instead of of fucking cunt, dick head cops not doing their job.
> 
> Lots of good cops will suffer now, the cronies like Sharpton, Jackson, Obama will weigh in too.
> 
> I won't be ignorant and say, there are not obvious race issues in our country but not all is race related.


Agreed. Some people are just assholes.


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> What happened is a goddamned travesty.
> 
> I still don't understand how it is automatically racism.



Alot of people who share that mindset believe in systemic racism, IE the systems we have as a society and utilize with our police forces create an environment in which black/brown suspects are treated much more harshly than their white counterparts are.

It's why you may be seeing a bunch of posts pointing out that some white mass shooters (Charleston Church/El Paso, mostly) are seemingly better treated by the police than minorities.

Whether racist or not, it's dogshit policing.

ETA: Stuff like this doesn't help with the issue 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265758475377762305


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## Grunt (May 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> ...I still don't understand how it is automatically racism.



Because that is the pathetic society we have become as a nation. If any incident isn't the same race, religion, etc., it's either racist or a hate crime.

I wish people were big enough to simply call things what they are and keep things simple.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Rosedale, Maplewood malls and MOA have closed for the day to avoid damage.  

St. Paul police are in a standoff with protesters at Target while police cars are being damaged.  

It’s 2:15pm.  

Gonna be a “fun” night.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Hang on to the end - Discount Tire gets a vehicle rammed into it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266098618236375048


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

...and 200 National Guard Troops have been called in.


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## Kaldak (May 28, 2020)

That's some awful camera work.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...and 200 National Guard Troops have been called in.


What exactly will they do? Stand by and watch? Show of force?


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## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> What exactly will they do? Stand by and watch? Show of force?



Here's hoping for CS and water cannon's.   Maybe even some old fashioned shields and batons for head smashing.


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## Totentanz (May 28, 2020)




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## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

And this goes political. 

Amy Klobuchar declined to prosecute officer at center of George Floyd's death after previous conduct complaints


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And this goes political.
> 
> Amy Klobuchar declined to prosecute officer at center of George Floyd's death after previous conduct complaints



This highlights the issues people had with Kamala Harris:

no matter what their politics are, people who are in positions to help reform/improve policing never seem to make attempts to do that while they're in a position of power, because they dont want to appear as "anti-LEO"/"weak on crime"


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And this goes political.
> 
> Amy Klobuchar declined to prosecute officer at center of George Floyd's death after previous conduct complaints


And there goes her shot at VP


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## LimaPanther (May 28, 2020)

Nothing will be said about weapons being taken from the Pawn Store that was looted. All pawn stores I have been in have had rifles and hand guns plus ammo.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

I give my city Police credit for giving us the head's up.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

SHOCKING: Minneapolis rioters loot store, take everything except Kirk Cousins jerseys.


@AWP


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> SHOCKING: Minneapolis rioters loot store, take everything except Kirk Cousins jerseys.
> 
> View attachment 34110
> @AWP



Welp, there's the proof that these rioters aren't completely mindless 😂😂


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## racing_kitty (May 28, 2020)

This warms my cold, hard heart. Especially since one of them has some taste in weapons. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266129167776546816


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

Some interesting videos coming out of Minnesota regarding this Umbrella Man.
Dude in all black, wearing a gas mask, gloves, and hoodie, just casually walks up to an auto zone and starts knocking out windows. Gets confronted by other protestors, starts to leave, then gets aggressive when they start yelling "are you a cop?" at him.

Now, it's more likely he's an anarchist than he is a cop, but I understand peoples' fears that the police may have played a hand in starting the riots.

Multiple Departments Have been caught before. These are just the three I remember off the top of head.


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> This warms my cold, hard heart. Especially since one of them has some taste in weapons.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266129167776546816



This is what needs to happen more. Did y'all see the "armed rednecks" yet?


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So the name Jacob Pederson is trending Twitter. I initially dismissed it, but....ex wife dimed him out.  He’s St. Paul PD.


I've seen that as well, but trying to compare someone by their eyeballs and the top of their nose is a bit too much of a stretch for me to feel "umbrella man was totally this cop!"


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Hennepin County Attorney, Mike Freeman today:
“That video is graphic and horrific and terrible and no person should do that. But my job in the end is to prove that he violated a criminal statute, and there's other evidence that does not support a criminal charge... I will not rush to justice.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266134329870225409


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## AWP (May 28, 2020)

The cop may turn out to be racist, but absent any proof or anything resembling proof, I'll take "Shitty Police Work for a thousand, Alex."


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> there's other evidence that does not support a criminal charge


The state has been walking back that statement all day saying that what he meant to say was, “that there is *no* other evidence that does not support a criminal charge....”

Folks who do not believe his backpedal are thinking that Floyd may have died as a result of something else; not directly related to the knee in the neck.  Who knows.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The state has been walking back that statement all day saying that what he meant to say was, “that there is *no* other evidence that does not support a criminal charge....”
> 
> Folks who do not believe his backpedal are thinking that Floyd may have died as a result of something else; not directly related to the knee in the neck.  Who knows.


I edited my post to add video from news conference.  I'm just getting caught up.  

It will be interesting to see what comes out but, in listening to the news conference, it does not sound like he misspoke.  Like you said, who knows.


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## AWP (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Folks who do not believe his backpedal are thinking that Floyd may have died as a result of something else; not directly related to the knee in the neck.  Who knows.



Proned out with his hands cuffed behind him shouldn't warrant a knee to the neck, much less for 8 minutes.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

3rd Precinct was reportedly overrun; police have abandoned it; completely engulfed in flames.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Reports are that Minneapolis‘s 3rd Precent has been overrun and PD are evacuating.

Minneapolis Police 3rd Precinct on Lake Street overrun, set on fire


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266209671054012416


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

The 3rd has fallen....5th is next.

Fuck this bullshit.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I give my city Police credit for giving us the head's up.
> 
> View attachment 34109


Graffiti popping up around my city claiming we'll get ours and we're next kind of stuff.   

All I have to say to that is, you better not show up to my house unannounced...


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Seriously, call in the FD and turn their hoses on these fuckwits.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

My old man was telling me about riots in Minneapolis in the late 60's. Not sure what they were about, probably same shit, but he told me when the rioters started heading over the bridge to NE Mpls, the Poles (it's a Polish neighborhood) grabbed axe handles, bats, you name it, and all lined up on the bridge.  They told the rioters if they dared cross the bridge they'd get a beating.  The rioters turned around.  We made need neighborhoods to take a similar stand.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

The Gov. and Mayor have abandoned Minneapolis and let 1 precinct fall, and another one about to.

Wow.  Just absolutely wow.


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## Blizzard (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The Gov. and Mayor have abandoned Minneapolis and let 1 precinct fall, and another one about to.
> 
> Wow.  Just absolutely wow.


That is a complete lack of leadership.  Incompetance.  Like you said...wow.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

Officer in the 3rd vehicle will likely get fired....but the payback, as little as it might have been, had to feel good.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266186985041022976


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## Cookie_ (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Officer in the 3rd vehicle will likely get fired....but the payback, as little as it might have been, had to feel good.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266186985041022976



Man, its almost as if indiscriminate douchbag shit like that is the reason the precinct is currently on fire?

ETA: I'm in no way supporting what's happening with the sacking of Minneapolis right now; but I can fully understand how people can see the police as an enemy force.


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So the name Jacob Pederson is trending Twitter. I initially dismissed it, but....ex wife dimed him out.  He’s St. Paul PD.


From St. Paul Police Department Twitter:

RUMOR CONTROL ... We are aware of the social media post that erroneously identifies one of our officers as the person caught on video breaking windows in Minneapolis. We've seen it. We've looked into it. And it's false.


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Guard is supposedly meeting with Fire Department now.  We'll see what happens next...are they going out to tonight?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266219821840109569
Mayor Frey needs to go immediately.  He has no clue.  Quite possibly Walz as well.  They're completely absent and appear to have abandoned.the city.  Who's calling the shots?!


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Live video feed....


Media helos have RTB'd for the night due to danger of flying overhead.  They have lazers pointed at them, gunshots, etc.

Lots of gunshots being reported near 3rd Precinct.  Could be gangs, hoodlums, or people protecting their business.  Crazy bullshit.


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## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> From St. Paul Police Department Twitter:
> 
> RUMOR CONTROL ... We are aware of the social media post that erroneously identifies one of our officers as the person caught on video breaking windows in Minneapolis. We've seen it. We've looked into it. And it's false.


They would have been better just to not even address it. All this reads as is

"We were accused of using undercover officers to initiate riots in which an aggressive response would be warranted. We investigated ourselves and found ourselves innocent of said accusations."


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## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)




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## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

My city is literally burning down and the Mayor and Governor are not able to be located.

Fuck off, Minneapolis.

Goodnight.


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

WTFO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266231100172615680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266231100780744704


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## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266222112458629120


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266222112458629120


What a fucking retard.


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Oh, cool. So let me get this right.

Twitter- which the president just issued an executive order against- is the mode of communication where the president is threatening to allow the “shooting to start”.

Weird- I thought the national guard was a state entity.

Paging @R.Caerbannog to help me understand this one.

Question- are you willing to go “start shooting” to stop the looting here? Cause the boss just said that’s an option.

Also- I haven’t seen much mention here, on a. Military board. The CINC just said the military is there to start shooting at a civilian protest.

Thoughts?


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## AWP (May 29, 2020)

Everything CV-19, Joe Exotic, Murder Hornets, now this.

It isn't even June.


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Oh, cool. So let me get this right.
> 
> Twitter- which the president just issued an executive order against- is the mode of communication where the president is threatening to allow the “shooting to start”.
> 
> ...


I want to laugh to at this post but can only must a slight smile.

BTW, we reportedly have *34* guardsmen on hand ready to help the Fire Dept.

I'm tempted to go out and grab some video but that's probably not a super awesome idea.


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## AWP (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Also- I haven’t seen much mention here, on a. Military board. The CINC just said the military is there to start shooting at a civilian protest.
> 
> Thoughts?



I think the problem is that this has gone well past protests. Looting, deaths, and destroying government buildings aren't what I consider part of a protest. The Guard going Kent State on them though...yikes. I think calling these "protests" is wrong.

The president and Twitter...He's not helping the situation and once again has a great opportunity to put down his phone and go silent for a bit...but he won't.


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

AWP said:


> I think the problem is that this has gone well past protests. Looting, deaths, and destroying government buildings aren't what I consider part of a protest. The Guard going Kent State on them though...yikes. I think calling these "protests" is wrong.
> 
> The president and Twitter...He's not helping the situation and once again has a great opportunity to put down his phone and go silent for a bit...but he won't.


Just to be clear- we are talking about the justification of American military, in some form and fashion, killing Americans.

My question stands, all the members who are active duty.

OUR president just directly said this- ‘the military is behind you. When the looting starts- the shooting starts.’

So- who is with the president?


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Just to be clear- we are talking about the justification of American military, in some form and fashion, killing Americans.
> 
> My question stands, all the members who are active duty.
> 
> ...


Is the oath to the President or the Constitution?

The amount of stupidity flying around is staggering.  Speaking of which, the dipshit mayor of Minneapolis is supposed to speak shortly.  They're probably just waiting for him to stop crying..


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## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Is the oath to the President or the Constitution?
> 
> The amount of stupidity flying around is staggering.  Speaking of which, the dipshit mayor of Minneapolis is supposed to speak shortly.  They're probably just waiting for him to stop crying..


Sorry man. Doesn’t answer my question.

Again- the president said, ”When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

Your answer is? About shooting Americans?


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## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Sorry man. Doesn’t answer my question.
> 
> Again- the president said, ”When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
> 
> Your answer is? About shooting Americans?


I posted my response earlier when I posted his Tweet:  It's WTF.  It's ridiculous.  That said, they went to New Orleans.

How about you?

Listening to the mayor right now. He is clueless.  He doesn't have a plan; in way over his head.


----------



## racing_kitty (May 29, 2020)

The Army had no problems in Waco during the Clinton administration, posse comitatus be damned. I don’t think half our newest soldiers could even spell “posse comitatus” today. They’ll shout because they’re stupid.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> The Army had no problems in Waco during the Clinton administration, posse comitatus be damned. I don’t think half our newest soldiers could even spell “posse comitatus” today. They’ll shout because they’re stupid.


So you’re in or out? The CINC just said it plainly.

“The looting starts, the shooting starts.”

in? Or out.




Blizzard said:


> I posted my response earlier when I posted his Tweet:  It's WTF.  It's ridiculous.
> 
> How about you?
> 
> Listening to the mayor right now. He is clueless.  He doesn't have a plan; in way over his head.


Easy one. No, I will absolutely not shoot Americans, ordered by the president via Twitter, in response to a riot that was sparked by a murder by police.

Now you go.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> So you’re in or out? The CINC just said it plainly.
> 
> “The looting starts, the shooting starts.”
> 
> ...


Agreed.  

Again, it's ridiculous; there is a bunch of messed up stuff in that Tweet.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Again, it's ridiculous; there is a bunch of messed up stuff in that Tweet.


You didn’t answer.

I asked you a direct question. You’re on the military; the president said he’d allow military to shoot civilians.

so?


----------



## AWP (May 29, 2020)

Would I get a CIB for shooting a protestor? No, I'm a fobbit.

All dark humor aside, nah, I'm a hard pass on shooting Americans in this scenario.
----
Where my Boogaloo Boys at? You keep running your mouths about wanting to get it on...You didn't do it in VA over the 2A, you didn't do it over CV-19, now you have a city on fire. What are y'all waiting for? More memes from Parks and Rec?


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> You didn’t answer.
> 
> I asked you a direct question. You’re on the military; the president said he’d allow military to shoot civilians.
> 
> so?


Hard NO!


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Hard NO!


Thank goodness.

I’d like to mark this time.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

AWP said:


> Would I get a CIB for shooting a protestor? No, I'm a fobbit.
> 
> All dark humor aside, nah, I'm a hard pass on shooting Americans in this scenario.
> ----
> Where my Boogaloo Boys at? You keep running your mouths about wanting to get it on...You didn't do it in VA over the 2A, you didn't do it over CV-19, now you have a city on fire. What are y'all waiting for? More memes from Parks and Rec?


Another logical answer. Maybe I’m not insane.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 29, 2020)

Remember last week when Joe Biden had a little gaffe and we were all like "Well, he's lost the entire black vote there"

Well now the president is threatening order the National Guard to shoot looters.

What a world!


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Remember last week when Joe Biden had a little gaffe and we were all like "Well, he's lost the entire black vote there"
> 
> Well now the president is threatening order the National Guard to shoot looters.
> 
> What a world!


OK, this actually got a chuckle out of me.  So, now I can go to sleep.

Just when you think shit can't get any stranger....

What a time to be alive.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 29, 2020)

Well now THIS is something I've certainly never seen. Twitter partially hid the president's tweet.  "This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence". 







Is this a first?


----------



## racing_kitty (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> So you’re in or out? The CINC just said it plainly.



Flips you off in DD214 because I’m out, and “I’m out.“

What part of posse comitatus is not registering? My sworn duty was to defend the Constitution, not fly off and do the bidding of a fucking mad tangerine that also doesn’t grasp the concept of PC. 

Soooooo, cool....


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Flips you off in DD214 because I’m out, and “I’m out.“
> 
> What part of posse comitatus is not registering? My sworn duty was to defend the Constitution, not fly off and do the bidding of a fucking mad tangerine that also doesn’t grasp the concept of PC.
> 
> Soooooo, cool....


Lol. I’ll take it. There is so much double soeak these days, I want to be sure. I’ve always valued your honesty- even when it hurts.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Well now THIS is something I've certainly never seen. Twitter partially hid the president's tweet.  "This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely. And guess what? It actually does violate Twitter’s rules.

The leader of the free world, everyone.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Remember last week when Joe Biden had a little gaffe and we were all like "Well, he's lost the entire black vote there"
> 
> Well now the president is threatening order the National Guard to shoot looters.
> 
> What a world!



It's been pretty mixed as far as who is rioting and looting. 

Here's a question for you @amlove21. Let's say you are ordered to Minneapolis to help. While there the building you are in gets overrun and the rioters are now attacking you. Do you fight back to protect yourself and your men/women with you?

What do you think would have happened to any police officers inside the 3rd Precinct had the rioters found one? 

I think everyone on this board will say of course they won't shoot American's, but history proves you otherwise.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What do you think would have happened to any police officers inside the 3rd Precinct had the rioters found one?



Natural Born Killers comes to mind


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> It's been pretty mixed as far as who is rioting and looting.
> 
> Here's a question for you @amlove21. Let's say you are ordered to Minneapolis to help. While there the building you are in gets overrun and the rioters are now attacking you. Do you fight back to protect yourself and your men/women with you?
> 
> ...


Let’s go one step further. The building is attacked by nazi zombies. Everything is fine until the dinosaurs get loose. 

This was a ridiculous assertion even as a thought experiment.

It’ll be helpful to answer my actual question- the president said he’d deploy military in America to shoot Americans.

You in or out?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> It’ll be helpful to answer my actual question- the president said he’d deploy military in America to shoot Americans.
> 
> You in or out?


I am out.  And to double down, I would be “out” as a cop as well.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Other cities have shown that there are tactical ways to prevent what happened last night, without a death count.  

The Mayor and Governor chose to sacrifice the city, that is unforgivable to me.

The President is a fool.  Yes, a fool. I can only try to imagine what was going thru the minds of officers and Guardsmen on the scene when he Tweeted that.  “He fucking said what?!?  Oh great.   That will calm these people down” 🔥


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

AWP said:


> The cop may turn out to be racist, but absent any proof or anything resembling proof, I'll take "Shitty Police Work for a thousand, Alex."



I saw this, but have not confirmed.  There are citations at the bottom, though.


----------



## AWP (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The President is a fool.  Yes, a fool. I can only try to imagine what was going thru the minds of officers and Guardsmen on the scene when he Tweeted that.  “He fucking said what?!?  Oh great.   That will calm these people down” 🔥



The beginning of the bunker scene in Downfall... General comes in and briefs the Failed Painter that the Sovs are about to face fuck Berlin. Sucky Artiste waves him off with "Steiner's gonna' save us all." Everyone, knowing that Steiner has done jack and shit, looks around nervously. A) They know they are about to see a tantrum and B) nobody wants to be the messenger that Steiner's MIA.

THAT is how I picture NGB and the Adjutant General of Minnesota acting when they saw that Tweet.


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Absolutely. And guess what? It actually does violate Twitter’s rules.
> 
> The leader of the free world, everyone.



RE: twitter in general, I think his hard-on is that they arbitrarily and capriciously decide what is and isn't violating rules.  OK to say it here, but not OK when their own MFIC of integrity calls the occupants of the White House "literally Nazis."  No one cares anymore except him, and Twitter....

Regarding your question, though: (yeah, Posse Com for one, also the immorality o fit all....)


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

@Devildoc , completely agree with twitter. I’m not on it because I don’t agree with how they moderate content. Facebook, same thing. Haven’t been on in years.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> It was the police issued gas mask that got people suspicious. I’m not saying it is him, but it certainly is a twist.


Groups like ANTIFA and other trouble makers have agitators that sport high end gear. Lot of 'police issue' gear is widely available commercial off the shelf stuff anyone can get. If you want to go down a rabbit hole, look up some of the MOTO pics these antifa types assemble and the gucci gear they have.

For being unemployed downtrodden losers, some of these clowns have thousands invested in rifles, gear, and commo.


amlove21 said:


> Oh, cool. So let me get this right.
> 
> Twitter- which the president just issued an executive order against- is the mode of communication where the president is threatening to allow the “shooting to start”.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure less than lethal shotty shells, rubber bullets, and the 40mm foam rounds are kosher. Unless burning stuff down and rioting are okay in you're block if the 'protestors' belong to your tribe. 

Maybe keep some DRM guys with actual rifles in case it turns into a two way range.

Also, there's a difference between a protest and a riot. But hey... if it's anyone anywhere 'near conservative' they're automatically treated like domestic terrorists. You don't see the rest of the population burn shit down when 'conservatives' get gunned down.


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> @Devildoc , completely agree with twitter. I’m not on it because I don’t agree with how they moderate content. Facebook, same thing. Haven’t been on in years.



I am very frustrated with how POTUS communicates on Twitter.  I understand _why_ he does it, but _how_ he does it has always made me nuts.  I am on it because it was legacy comms with a group with which I am affiliated, but I'm never, ever on it anymore.  I am on FB, mostly because it's about the only way I can connect to family scattered throughout the country.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> But hey... if it's anyone anywhere 'near conservative' they're automatically treated like domestic terrorists. You don't see the rest of the population burn shit down when 'conservatives' get gunned down.


Dude what?

What?

For clarification, I'm not black...but....while I don't agree with their tactics, I can 'understand' why much of Black America feels the need to pop off like this.  



R.Caerbannog said:


> You don't see the rest of the population burn shit down when 'conservatives' get gunned down.


Well yeah, and why would they?  You are better than this argument.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> The Army had no problems in Waco during the Clinton administration, posse comitatus be damned. I don’t think half our newest soldiers could even spell “posse comitatus” today. They’ll shout because they’re stupid.


Hate because of how true that statement is.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

Best way to explain some of the reactions here...


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> It’ll be helpful to answer my actual question- the president said he’d deploy military in America to shoot Americans.



History would suggest that the military more often than not doesn't have ammo and are the ones getting shot at. I've supported enough Hurricanes in my military capacity for Florida to know this is the actual truth. During looting, there's shooting, but from the other direction... Unless your a well armed Korean on a roof.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog Distraction aside, because again, you have no information we all don’t have (that you get from MSMs and spew as truth).

How do you feel about the president threatening military force to “start shooting” when the looting starts?

Rubber bullets or real- you packing bags for Minnesota right now or nah?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Groups like ANTIFA and other trouble makers have agitators that sport high end gear. Lot of 'police issue' gear is widely available commercial off the shelf stuff anyone can get. If you want to go down a rabbit hole, look up some of the MOTO pics these antifa types assemble and the gucci gear they have.
> 
> For being unemployed downtrodden losers, some of these clowns have thousands invested in rifles, gear, and commo.
> 
> ...



Interesting that to prove your you referenced a thing where armed domestic terrorists (IE violence for political change) took over a building and were treated better by the police than the average minority.

P.S. Fincum was shot reaching for a weapon


----------



## LimaPanther (May 29, 2020)

Over my lifetime I have seen many protest and they all seem to be the same. The riots take place in the inner cities and never expand to any residential areas nor to major business districts. Guess they know that home owners will shoot to protect their homes. It is always admitted that most of the protesters are outsiders so where is the report on how hundreds of protesters got to the site (Who feeds and houses them). Gangs in the area never seem to take advantage of the situation to retaliate against each other nor do those that shout that there should be a civil war. Most whites are attacked unless they are the news media and you find the news media right in the middle of the action doing interviews. After a riot no one is arrested for arson or robbery though plenty of facial pictures at the seen of the crime.  After the NG shows up and starts patrolling things die down.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Other cities have shown that there are tactical ways to prevent what happened last night, without a death count.
> 
> The Mayor and Governor chose to sacrifice the city, that is unforgivable to me.
> 
> The President is a fool.  Yes, a fool. I can only try to imagine what was going thru the minds of officers and Guardsmen on the scene when he Tweeted that.  “He fucking said what?!?  Oh great.   That will calm these people down” 🔥



It seems the police escalation(even without the agent provocateur theories) really didn't help either. 

They're out there arresting news crews. 

CNN crew released from police custody after they were arrested live on air in Minneapolis


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It seems the police escalation(even without the agent provocateur theories) really didn't help either.
> 
> They're out there arresting news crews.
> 
> CNN crew released from police custody after they were arrested live on air in Minneapolis



oh.. standing in front of the the FLOT could be seen as interfering with a police operation?

Also of note.. CNN is suggesting he was arrested for being a minority


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Let’s go one step further. The building is attacked by nazi zombies. Everything is fine until the dinosaurs get loose.
> 
> This was a ridiculous assertion even as a thought experiment.
> 
> ...



Nothing idiotic about it. What's your answer? 

And I already gave you my answer for yours.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I saw this, but have not confirmed.  There are citations at the bottom, though.
> 
> View attachment 34118



On an earlier post someone made referenced these back when Amy Klobuchar was DA.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude what?
> 
> What?
> 
> ...


I'm gonna be blunt, the more leeway we give Marxism and ghetto culture the more stuff like this is gonna happen. This isn't a race thing it's a culture thing. Though it can be argued that race has been used as an excuse to keep this toxic culture alive and healthy.



amlove21 said:


> @R.Caerbannog Distraction aside, because again, you have no information we all don’t have (that you get from MSMs and spew as truth).
> 
> How do you feel about the president threatening military force to “start shooting” when the looting starts?
> 
> Rubber bullets or real- you packing bags for Minnesota right now or nah?


If I was still in why not? Rubber bullets and CS gas ain't gonna kill anyone, if it does that's on them for partaking in this little adventure. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If you want me to advocate straight up murdering folks well... that's a talk you might have to have with someone else. Rubber bullets and CS gas are fine until it turns into a two way range.



Cookie_ said:


> Interesting that to prove your you referenced a thing where armed domestic terrorists (IE violence for political change) took over a building and were treated better by the police than the average minority.
> 
> P.S. Fincum was shot reaching for a weapon.


Dude was hit with something, flinched/spasmed, and was gunned down.

It's telling how quick you are to label people as 'domestic terrorists', but not the guys burn stuff down. It's not like I agree with any of the beef those people had, but I find it interesting to see how one side so quickly demonizes the other. Again, part of the play stupid games win stupid prizes theme.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> It's telling how quick you are to label people as 'domestic terrorists', but not the guys burn stuff down


I 100% agree with you on this one.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It seems the police escalation(even without the agent provocateur theories) really didn't help either.
> 
> They're out there arresting news crews.
> 
> CNN crew released from police custody after they were arrested live on air in Minneapolis


I don't know anything about what took place there but I'm happy to see that they are at least capable of taking people into custody because that hasn't been apparent up until now.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Nothing idiotic about it. What's your answer?
> 
> And I already gave you my answer for yours.


We disagree. And absolutely not would I be ok with shooting Americans. Or deploying to Minnesota to act a security force.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If I was still in why not? Rubber bullets and CS gas ain't gonna kill anyone, if it does that's on them for partaking in this little adventure. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
> 
> If you want me to advocate straight up murdering folks well... that's a talk you might have to have with someone else. Rubber bullets and CS gas are fine until it turns into a two way range.


Cool. Not what the president said though. but, given your history of apologia, I got the answer I expected.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> We disagree. And absolutely not would I be ok with shooting Americans. Or deploying to Minnesota to act a security force.



I didnt say you would be there as a security force. I just said you have been ordered to deploy there. Are you telling me that you would not follow a lawful order given to you by a Commanding Officer? We're on the same side with regards to firing on civilians. I just want to know where you'd be if it came down to you protecting your crew vs not harming someone attacking you or your crew.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Cool. Not what the president said though. but, given your history of apologia, I got the answer I expected.


Dude... you're using sophistry and wordplay to make it seem like the president wants to massacre people. C'mon... I didn't even vote for the guy, but it seems I'm always trying to provide counter views to what you and some of the others are putting out.


----------



## LimaPanther (May 29, 2020)

Question - If cities are being burned down throughout the US because of riots, and there are not enough LEOs to handle the situation, do you let the cities burn or do you send in troops? If you send in troops and they are attacked, do the troops stand and take it or do they defend themselves? This is what I see taking place in the future if rioters realize nothing will be done to them.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Cool. Not what the president said though. but, given your history of apologia, I got the answer I expected.



So let's go back and read this then...



			
				@realDonaldTrump  said:
			
		

> ....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. *Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.* Thank you!



This is a thoughtful and likely accurate prediction. Good enough for me to see that it should be de-escalated well before a federal response


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> It's telling how quick you are to label people as 'domestic terrorists', but not the guys burn stuff down. It's not like I agree with any of the beef those people had, but I find it interesting to see how one side so quickly demonizes the other. Again, part of the play stupid games win stupid prizes theme.



You're whole original post was "but no one cares about it when its conservative white people! We always get called terrorists"

And then the linked story you shared was literally from an incident of domestic terrorism.

I'm not labeling anybody, but if it makes you happy; sure, burning buildings can be considered domestic terrorism too.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I didnt say you would be there as a security force. I just said you have been ordered to deploy there. Are you telling me that you would not follow a lawful order given to you by a Commanding Officer? We're on the same side with regards to firing on civilians. I just want to know where you'd be if it came down to you protecting your crew vs not harming someone attacking you or your crew.


Don’t create a false dichotomy, and don’t appeal to emotion. I’ll not do the same. This has nothing to do with ‘protecting my crew’. This has to do with protecting target and autozone.

You saying that leads me to believe you grossly misunderstand the entire issue or you’re being a dick to prove a point. Either way- and this is me speaking, as a person, to you, not as a mod or an authority figure- you can knock that shit right off.
I’m happy to follow lawful orders. Done it my whole career. As a SNCO, it’s 100% my lane to critically examine which orders are indeed lawful and resist when those orders exist in a grey area- like when a 75 year old dude threatens to use the military to shoot looters via Twitter. Even joking.

What the fuck are we even talking about.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 29, 2020)

Arson of an occupied building is a crime in basically every state in the nation where use of lethal force is authorized by LAYMEN and has an affirmative defense in a court of law.

Just throwing that out there since everyone thinks looting's apparently cool. Protesting =/= looting/rioting. Hell, at least the Rodney King shit went down AFTER due process fucked things up.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> You're whole original post was "but no one cares about it when its conservative white people! We always get called terrorists"
> 
> And then the linked story you shared was literally from an incident of domestic terrorism.
> 
> I'm not labeling anybody, but if it makes you happy; sure, burning buildings can be considered domestic terrorism too.


Just pointing out the the double standard that's currently in play. As for what's construed as domestic terrorism, you should look up some of the DHS FOIA stuff that's been released. You'd be surprised to see how easily one can fit into those very expansive guidelines.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Protesting =/= looting/rioting.



"Why do the colonists not petition the king? Why must they throw the tea in the harbor?"

Not disagreeing with your overall point/supporting the arson, but we're a country founded on rioting.

An unfortunate mainstay of the American culture is we only change things when that change is brought about through violence or catastrophe.


----------



## LimaPanther (May 29, 2020)

From the many responses I have read on here it appears that many have no problem with rioters looting and burning down cities and nothing being done about it. 
The President, in his remark to the Governor, basically said that if the state could not handle the situation then the military was there to help. But if it got out of hand and the military came in then it wouldn't be pretty. If a city or state can not handle the lawlessness in their state and things get so bad that they request military help then what do you expect the military to do?


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Arson of an occupied building is a crime in basically every state in the nation where use of lethal force is authorized by LAYMEN and has an affirmative defense in a court of law.
> 
> Just throwing that out there since everyone thinks looting's apparently cool. Protesting =/= looting/rioting. Hell, at least the Rodney King shit went down AFTER due process fucked things up.


A little trickier in MN, especially if it's a business.  Lethal force can be used to protect life, not property.  You'd be rolling the dice and better have a solid explanation.

Minnesota law won't excuse killing to protect property


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Don’t create a false dichotomy, and don’t appeal to emotion. I’ll not do the same. This has nothing to do with ‘protecting my crew’. This has to do with protecting target and autozone.
> 
> You saying that leads me to believe you grossly misunderstand the entire issue or you’re being a dick to prove a point. Either way- and this is me speaking, as a person, to you, not as a mod or an authority figure- you can knock that shit right off.
> I’m happy to follow lawful orders. Done it my whole career. As a SNCO, it’s 100% my lane to critically examine which orders are indeed lawful and resist when those orders exist in a grey area- like when a 75 year old dude threatens to use the military to shoot looters via Twitter. Even joking.
> ...



Wasn't me trying to be a dick. It was a rhetorical question just as your question of are you going to shoot civilians is basically rhetorical, whether you agree to my sentiment or not, that's how a lot of us are interpreting it. 

I highly doubt the Ohio National Guard showed up to Kent State thinking they were going to murder 13 people that day and yet here we are 50 years this month from that happening still fearful of that happening again.



Ranger Psych said:


> Arson of an occupied building is a crime in basically every state in the nation where use of lethal force is authorized by LAYMEN and has an affirmative defense in a court of law.
> 
> Just throwing that out there since everyone thinks looting's apparently cool. Protesting =/= looting/rioting. Hell, at least the Rodney King shit went down AFTER due process fucked things up.



That 5hr long YouTube video Ooh-rah posted has a guy being interviewed at 1:01.55 saying he's just there to riot.

 I weep for the future of our country. Thankfully we still have a lot of really good people who aren't going to participate in this stupidity, and we have a lot of really good police officers that wont go out and murder people in custody.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> From the many responses I have read on here it appears that many have no problem with rioters looting and burning down cities and nothing being done about it.


I don't think that's the case at all.  

There is a huge gap with options between not doing anything and shooting them.  It's also not a military problem, it's a law enforcement problem.  That's my view anyway.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> And then the linked story you shared was literally from an incident of domestic terrorism.



Are we talking about the same incident that there's a wrongful death suit and indicted federal agents for lying? From their perspective at the time,  they believed the outcome would have been no different than Bundy's previous incident, dismissed with prejudice.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

I can feel tension ramping up to Minneapolis levels in this thread.  

Reminder for everyone to make your points with as much passion as you feel, but keep it professional and not personally directed at other members.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Oh, cool.

Trump's tweet that got tagged for 'glorifying violence' used a phrase from a 1960s cop whose policies started a race riot

ETA- @Devildoc this is where the QAnon folks (and the article you posted earlier) comes to a breaking point. Are there really ‘no coincidences’? Is the president playing 4D chess and every move is calculated? If so- then he meant to quote a cop that legit kicked off race riots using his exact phrase. If not- if it was justthe president speaking and it’s just a coincidence, and he’s just inept and a terrible communicator, then he’s not the white hat people would lead you to believe.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> A little trickier in MN, especially if it's a business.  Lethal force can be used to protect life, not property.  You'd be rolling the dice and better have a solid explanation.
> 
> Minnesota law won't excuse killing to protect property


Escalation of force. Hit them with rubber, foam, or CS until they back off. If they start shooting at you have the DMR or scout guys use lead, otherwise just hammer them with rubber. That shit hurts.

Not as big an issue as people are making it out to be.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Oh, cool.
> 
> Trump's tweet that got tagged for 'glorifying violence' used a phrase from a 1960s cop whose policies started a race riot



A selection of comments from my facebook-

"But Trump didn't know it came from a racist cop! It just so happens to be the exact same words but it doesn't mean anything! Stop being like the mainstream media and trying to read into his words!"

"Just like the media, you're reading violence where there isn't any at all. He clearly means he'll have the guard shoot them with CS gas or rubber bullets, but twitter only allows 140 characters!"


----------



## Bypass (May 29, 2020)

Dang Man. So you are right there in the midst of that stupidity. I hope them looters don't mess with you or the corona virus death toll is gonna look kinda weak in comparison.


----------



## AWP (May 29, 2020)

4D chess, trying to provoke or glorify a race riot, or it just sounds "cool"? Snappin' necks and cashin' checks. Sun's out, guns out. Moon's out, goons out.


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Oh, cool.
> 
> Trump's tweet that got tagged for 'glorifying violence' used a phrase from a 1960s cop whose policies started a race riot
> 
> ETA- @Devildoc this is where the QAnon folks (and the article you posted earlier) comes to a breaking point. Are there really ‘no coincidences’? Is the president playing 4D chess and every move is calculated? If so- then he meant to quote a cop that legit kicked off race riots using his exact phrase. If not- if it was justthe president speaking and it’s just a coincidence, and he’s just inept and a terrible communicator, then he’s not the white hat people would lead you to believe.



Yeah, I don't know (as in, 'I REALLY don't know').  I _tend_ to not believe the 4D chess thing; however, I also think he's neither as smart/competent nor as stupid/incompetent as media of all stripes portray.  I _DO_ tend to believe that his and his opposition's PSYOPS game is strong...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 29, 2020)

AWP said:


> Would I get a CIB for shooting a protestor? No, I'm a fobbit.
> 
> All dark humor aside, nah, I'm a hard pass on shooting Americans in this scenario.
> ----
> Where my Boogaloo Boys at? You keep running your mouths about wanting to get it on...You didn't do it in VA over the 2A, you didn't do it over CV-19, now you have a city on fire. What are y'all waiting for? More memes from Parks and Rec?


There's a difference between the loss of constitutional rights/being turned into a serf vs what were seeing in MN. Not a boog boy, but the people that showed up with rifles in VA and in CV-19 lockdowns were Americans seeing freedoms and livelihoods being stripped away. 

If anything, the riots going on in Minneapolis are going to steel the average citizen that local and big govt aren't gonna protect them. If anything people are gonna be more passionate about protecting their second amendment rights after this.


AWP said:


> 4D chess, trying to provoke or glorify a race riot, or it just sounds "cool"? Snappin' necks and cashin' checks. Sun's out, guns out. Moon's out, goons out.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

VA had zero to do with III %er's. Lobby Day takes place every year. This year just got a lot more media coverage and therefore a larger turnout. Of which 100% of it was peaceful and the grounds were returned in better shape than beforehand. Nothing about the riots in Minneapolis are peaceful.


----------



## Jaknight (May 29, 2020)

I had a friend basically yell at me for 30 mins on how The Whites who protested in Michigan about Lockdown were treated with kid gloves. Compared to how The POC are being treated with them protesting another murder. I tried to point out The Michigan ones were armed and it was peaceful.  Went completely over her head and she said I was a racist.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Actual example of inciting violence?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266046129906552832


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

WOW!  LIstening to Gov. Walz in radio.  He’s laying full blame on both mayors. Saying “the state offered...mayors turned us down”. 
#doubling-down


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

Finally got around to watching the video, and maybe I'm being overly cynical but what's the over under that the officer with his knee on the neck gets put on administrative leave and not imprisoned? 


What happens with riots then?


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

So yeah, this happened: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266003300840865795
Also, who's putting the riots down?  You guys can say what you want about "being out" but you can't just let this thing go on for weeks.  There's already been a precinct over-run.



SaintKP said:


> Finally got around to watching the video, and maybe I'm being overly cynical but what's the over under that the officer with his knee on the neck gets put on administrative leave and not imprisoned?
> 
> 
> What happens with riots then?



Dude was fired less than 24 hours after the event.  FBI took over the investigation almost immediately.  That's about as swift of a justice train as a land of laws has.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 29, 2020)

*Ferguson to Minneapolis: What’s Going On with Law Enforcement?*

A lengthy interesting and nuanced read from a vet turned LEO:



> (excerpt)  "I’ve heard it all, “You signed up for this…” Exactly, I did. I went into this profession fully acknowledging the dangers it poses. The mental and emotional heartache it creates. I accept that one day I may die; war taught me that. I will do my job and continue to do my job with honor, integrity, courage and all the virtues that come with it. I will fight if I’m forced to. I will protect lives. I will treat others with respect. I will honor the sacrifices of those before me. This is just not me saying it. It is the 99% who put on that shield every day and face the unknown."


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dude was fired less than 24 hours after the event. FBI took over the investigation almost immediately. That's about as swift of a justice train as a land of laws has.




Thank you for clarifying, hadn't fully caught up on the chain of events.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> WOW!  LIstening to Gov. Walz in radio.  He’s laying full blame on both mayors. Saying “the state offered...mayors turned us down”.
> #doubling-down


Gov. Walz says he talked to @realDonaldTrump last night by phone and told him the state would be taking control of law enforcement situation. But says the president’s tweets “were not helpful.” Among other things, the president tweeted “when looting starts the shooting starts.”


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Gen. Jensen (MN National Guard) says they were finally given a “law and order” mission early this morning when they helped clear the Third Precinct area in Mpls.

Also tasked with protecting State Capitol and assisting MN State Patrol and Mpls Fire Department.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Gov. Walz says he talked to @realDonaldTrump last night by phone and told him the state would be taking control of law enforcement situation. But says the president’s tweets “were not helpful.” Among other things, the president tweeted “when looting starts the shooting starts.”


I cannot tell you how infuriated I am in listening to him and Frey speak. 

I'm more pissed about the complete lack.of leadership and utter incompetence across the board than I am with the looters.  How can any of these clowns remain in their positions.  We're 4 days into this and they're just now putting together plans.  They have no answers or clues on the most fundamental, day 1, week 1 type things.  They are clearly in way over their heads.


----------



## DA SWO (May 29, 2020)

The looting/shooting tweet was dumb, but true.  They are rioting, looting and shooting each other.

@amlove21 I'd have no issue using less lethal against RIOTERS, these are not peaceful protestors, toss molotov cocktails at me and I'd respond with lethal force.

Gun sales go up nationwide as folks once again realize the cops are not going to protect them.

Finally, what is alleged forgery? (serious question)


----------



## RackMaster (May 29, 2020)

And then there's this. 

Ilhan Omar's daughter shows support on Twitter for antifa group organizing riots in Minneapolis

This is conspiracy'ish but I'm honestly curious about outside actors, inciting or funding groups behind some of the rioting.  Given other plays around the world, it would not surprise me if there was connections to the CCP trying to make this worse.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Finally, what is alleged forgery? (serious question)


My understanding is that he tried to pass a bad check.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> My understanding is that he tried to pass a bad check.


It was a suspected Fake $20


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Actual example of inciting violence?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266046129906552832



This tweet is just as violent as the one Trump sent.

IE: Your mileage may vary


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It was a suspected Fake $20


There you go.  Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> This tweet is just as violent as the one Trump sent.
> 
> IE: Your mileage may vary



You mean the White House?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> You mean the White House?


When I first saw the tweet it was strictly from his account, but I see now the White House tweeted it out as well, so both I guess?

And as for that Cap tweet; could definitely be read as incitement, since it happened after the first night in which the protests became riots.


----------



## DA SWO (May 29, 2020)

Question for the cops here.
squad 1 is 10 feet away, and squad 2 is a 100ft away.  Why take him to squad 2?


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Question for the cops here.
> squad 1 is 10 feet away, and squad 2 is a 100ft away.  Why take him to squad 2?


I can tell you squad 1 was a back up from the Mpls Park Police, not regular Mpls PD.  They're technically separate departments and Mpls PD "owned" the call.  Looks like they were bringing him back to Mpls PD/responding officers squad.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

The officer involved has now been arrested.

Derek Chauvin, Former Officer Who Placed Knee on George Floyd’s Neck, in Police Custody

This shit needs to stop, and there needs to be some serious jail time for a lot of these assholes. So, last night in Downtown Phoenix there was a riot.

8 arrested after hundreds march in downtown Phoenix to protest death of George Floyd

The Ohio statehouse has been breached.

LIVE: DeWine addresses damage caused to Ohio statehouse during George Floyd protests


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The officer involved has now been arrested.
> 
> Derek Chauvin, Former Officer Who Placed Knee on George Floyd’s Neck, in Police Custody
> 
> ...



I'd like to think it will, but I'm not to sure.

These riots are fueled by a good mix of anger at the system, unemployment, pent up energy, and a dash of opportunism.

Hopefully what happened in Minneapolis doesn't spread to other cities and their police precincts.


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd like to think it will, but I'm not to sure.
> 
> These riots are fueled by a good mix of anger at the system, unemployment, pent up energy, and a dash of opportunism.
> 
> Hopefully what happened in Minneapolis doesn't spread to other cities and their police precincts.




That's what is most concerning to me, everyone is pent up and pissed off right now at a myriad of reasons and all it takes is for some disenfranchised person to feel the need to retaliate towards 'The Man' or ato fully commit and try to kick the boogaloo off.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> That's what is most concerning to me, everyone is pent up and pissed off right now at a myriad of reasons and all it takes is for some disenfranchised person to feel the need to retaliate towards 'The Man' or ato fully commit and try to kick the boogaloo off.



The frightening thing really in the event a boogaloo kicked off from this is how muddled the lines are; there's no easy North and South divide this time.

Anything spilling out in the US will be analogous to Syria; The two sides are those who support the current government and those who are "fighting for the people".

But if the groups fighting for the people all have different ideas of what that should look like, you have a situation primed to be full of smaller scale conflicts and almost impossible to control.

Like,  ANTIFA, socialist groups, some BOOG-boys/3%ers, and even some right-wing sovergin citizen lite groups would all fall into the "oppose the government" side; ain't no way in hell they don't fight each other too.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd like to think it will, but I'm not to sure.
> 
> These riots are fueled by a good mix of anger at the system, unemployment, pent up energy, and a dash of opportunism.
> 
> Hopefully what happened in Minneapolis doesn't spread to other cities and their police precincts.



It's also fueled by people who just want to break and steal shit. Don't think everyone has the same moral compass you have.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd like to think it will, but I'm not to sure.
> 
> These riots are fueled by a good mix of anger at the system, unemployment, pent up energy, and a dash of opportunism.
> 
> Hopefully what happened in Minneapolis doesn't spread to other cities and their police precincts.


Explosives being placed in precincts is terrorism, not anger at the system. 

Minneapolis police 3rd Precinct building on fire; city asks those in area to move away due to potential gas leak


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The frightening thing really in the event a boogaloo kicked off from this is how muddled the lines are; there's no easy North and South divide this time.
> 
> Anything spilling out in the US will be analogous to Syria; The two sides are those who support the current government and those who are "fighting for the people".
> 
> ...



"Balkanization" is a good term for it.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

@BloodStripe and @ThunderHorse 

I meant that statement to try and capture the multitudes of reasons this is a powder keg.

Some people may share all of those sentiments, and others just want to pull a Fred Durst and Break Stuff


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

So where's the nookie? 🤣


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @BloodStripe and @ThunderHorse
> 
> I meant that statement to try and capture the multitudes of reasons this is a powder keg.
> 
> Some people may share all of those sentiments, and others just want to pull a Fred Durst and Break Stuff


There's plenty of assholes in this world that don't even need a reason to do shit, they just do it.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Explosives being placed in precincts iis terrorism, not anger at the system.
> 
> Minneapolis police 3rd Precinct building on fire; city asks those in area to move away due to potential gas leak


That was from last night and, I'll tell you, it was immediately a suspect report to me. 

First, the report was put out by the city via Twitter.  Odd. 

Then, they cited it as an unconfirmed report. Also odd.  So, if no one is there, who told them this?

Finally, they concluded their Tweet by requesting everyone to leave the area for their safety, in case it exploded.  Ah! There we have it: the real motive....just an attempt to get people to dispurse.  

Pretty stupid and transparent if you ask me.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Just drove through some of the areas.  Overall, pretty quiet.  Mostly normal looking except for graffiti and the business owners continuing to board up their buildings; clearly expecting more problems.  Many posting signs declaring they're a "black owned business" or a "small business".

Saw a couple police cars, but that's it; no NG.  No visible presence in the areas I went through.  Some streets or areas of streets are blocked off, for example, one of the precincts I drove by had barriers  blocking it off with officers posted outside.

There was a large gathering of protesters outside the Hennepin County Government Center.  Pretty uneventful, as you'd expect for now; the actual hoodlums are probably still in bed after a full night of vandalism and stealing.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Curfews ordered for Minneapolis, St. Paul starting 8 p.m. Friday


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

*After action report:*
For years to come, literally every city in the Union will have future meetings where they will say, "What actions do we take to ensure that we don't have a Minneapolis Event?"


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *After action report:*
> For years to come, literally every city in the Union will have future meetings where they will say, "What actions do we take to ensure that we don't have a Minneapolis Event?"


You'd think so but, sadly, history may say otherwise.  

I'd have expected Minneapolis and others to have learned from others, such as L.A. and develop plans to ensure that doesn't happen.  Clearly, they didn't.  They didn't even learn from the RNC several years ago.


----------



## Muppet (May 29, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> So you’re in or out? The CINC just said it plainly.
> 
> “The looting starts, the shooting starts.”
> 
> ...



Out, I will not support shooting of Americans.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Very interesting comments from the ME in the criminal complaint against Officer Chauvin.

See third paragraph below.

This won't be popular:


			
				Hennepin County Medical Examiner" said:
			
		

> The autopsy revealed no physical evidence to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation...
> ...his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed used to his death.



If this is true, it probably explains why there was a 2 hour delay to an expected press conference by the County Attorney yesterday afternoon.

It certainly complicates the issue.  It also also further emphasizes why it's so foolish for local officials to be opining on the matter.  I have to believe they'll have a second examiner review as well.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Out, I will not support shooting of Americans.


Brother, if there's shooting, it won't be initiated by the police or the guardsmen.  Our fellow Americans are already shooting each other. Seven people were shot in Kentucky, and none of those shots came from police.  7 shot during downtown protests calling for justice in Breonna Taylor case

This is how stupid things are getting.  A man who hung an effigy of Kentucky's governor from a tree has been fired



Blizzard said:


> Very interesting comments from the ME in the criminal complaint against Officer Chauvin.
> 
> See third paragraph below.  If this is true, it probably explains why there was a 2 hour delay to an expected press conference by the County Attorney yesterday afternoon.
> View attachment 34147
> ...


So, very similar to the Eric Garner case in New York.


----------



## Muppet (May 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Brother, if there's shooting, it won't be initiated by the police or the guardsmen.  Our fellow Americans are already shooting each other. Seven people were shot in Kentucky, and none of those shots came from police.  7 shot during downtown protests calling for justice in Breonna Taylor case
> 
> This is how stupid things are getting.  A man who hung an effigy of Kentucky's governor from a tree has been fired
> 
> ...




Correct but I was referring to the President's comments about NG shooting at looters. They may be cunt, criminal looters but, they are still Americans and if/when the NG begins Kent State 2.0, they've lost my support and hell will break loose. I'm hoping this shit don't spread to other cities like mine.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

SEE IT: Woman in mobility scooter gets blasted by fire extinguisher in Minneapolis protest

Sigh.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

HyVee and CubFoods, 2 miles from my house are now 'boarded up' and closed in anticipation.  We are 9 miles out of Mpls central.
Thought being that the rats will vacate MPLS and begin hitting the burbs.


----------



## Jaknight (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The frightening thing really in the event a boogaloo kicked off from this is how muddled the lines are; there's no easy North and South divide this time.
> 
> Anything spilling out in the US will be analogous to Syria; The two sides are those who support the current government and those who are "fighting for the people".
> 
> ...


I can’t imagine The Right wing Boog boys extending the Hand of friendship to The Gun Toting Socialists in order to defeat The Man


----------



## RackMaster (May 29, 2020)

I looked but can't find this.  Seems there was a history. 

George Floyd, fired officer overlapped security shifts at south Minneapolis club


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> HyVee and CubFoods, 2 miles from my house are now 'boarded up' and closed in anticipation.  We are 9 miles out of Mpls central.
> Thought being that the rats will vacate MPLS and begin hitting the burbs.


Yep, we're all closed down stores here too as a precaution.  I think you know the area I live in.  Police reported potential threats and I've seen graffiti at my local bank and on bridges.

Mpls and St Paul curfews go into effect at 8pm.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

My Aunt/Uncle live in a hot-zone.  I just walked them thru what a go-bag is.  She is packing it now in case they need to bug-out at the last minute.
Destination - My place.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Correct but I was referring to the President's comments about *NG shooting at looters*. They may be cunt, criminal looters but, they are still Americans and if/when the NG begins Kent State 2.0, they've lost my support and hell will break loose. I'm hoping this shit don't spread to other cities like mine.



If you read it a few different ways, It's starting to sound more like he's trying to persuade not using the military because it could potentially escalate. It's the "but" part that really drives that idea home. 

Trump threatens to unleash gunfire on Minnesota protesters


----------



## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *After action report:*
> For years to come, literally every city in the Union will have future meetings where they will say, "What actions do we take to ensure that we don't have a Minneapolis Event?"



Every time something like this happens, or a natural disaster, any weird or one-off or outlier event happens, all the organizations and municipalities say, oh we're going to write this down and learn from it.

The next riot, the next racial divide, the next hurricane, the next pandemic, it's like it has never been seen before.

Oh, and throw wars in that mix, too.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> SEE IT: Woman in mobility scooter gets blasted by fire extinguisher in Minneapolis protest
> 
> Sigh.


This lady is not disabled, and she was trying to stab people coming out of the Target

WATCH: Jennifer Grabs Knife to Block Looters While in Motorized Wheelchair


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> This lady is not disabled, and she was trying to stab people coming out of the Target
> 
> WATCH: Jennifer Grabs Knife to Block Looters While in Motorized Wheelchair



Does this make her a hero or a villain in this story?


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Does this make her a hero or a villain in this story?




Makes her an idiot and I'd go so far as to say baiting to try and incite more controversy and violence.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I looked but can't find this.  Seems there was a history.
> 
> George Floyd, fired officer overlapped security shifts at south Minneapolis club



Talk about a plot twist


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> This lady is not disabled, and she was trying to stab people coming out of the Target
> 
> WATCH: Jennifer Grabs Knife to Block Looters While in Motorized Wheelchair



Is she from Florida? Because that has Florida energy all over it



Florida173 said:


> Talk about a plot twist



Not even Shyamalamadingdong would have thought up that one.


----------



## Florida173 (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Is she from Florida? Because that has Florida energy all over it



Or Ohio


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

My suburb just went 8pm to 6am curfew thru Monday.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Does this make her a hero or a villain in this story?


Easy villain.  Target is a big corporation and is insured against these losses.  Absolutely not worth stabbing people over.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

HH6 has been working from home for 11 weeks.  The AGO was phasing workers back into HQ...well she just got an email stating that everyone is being evacuated from government buildings.  IN PHX! It's 110F right now!


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> A little trickier in MN, especially if it's a business.  Lethal force can be used to protect life, not property.  You'd be rolling the dice and better have a solid explanation.
> 
> Minnesota law won't excuse killing to protect property



It's not trickier, you just have a comprehension problem (not meant in an offensive manner).

If the *"OCCUPIED" *box is checked on a structure and arson is attempted, basically anyone is free to canoe said arsonists skull in defense of self or others.

Check your own laws, but every state I've lived in worked as such.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> If the *"OCCUPIED" *box is checked on a structure and arson is attempted, basically anyone is free to canoe said arsonists skull in defense of self or others.


100% true.  As they say in MN Carry Classes:
- You can shoot to protect your car if you are in the car; but you cannot shoot to protect your car from the house.
- You can shoot to protect your house once they are 'in' your house...but you cannot shoot them on your front yard *

*  I'll take my chances if they have a can of gas and rags in their hands.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Easy villain.  *Target is a big corporation and is insured against these losses.* Absolutely not worth stabbing people over.


Hating this for the mentality bolded above.   I've seen/heard repeatedly from the pro-looter crowd as though it somehow excuses their actions or makes it acceptable in some idiotic way. 👎


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> It's not trickier, you just have a comprehension problem (not meant in an offensive manner).
> 
> If the *"OCCUPIED" *box is checked on a structure and arson is attempted, basically anyone is free to canoe said arsonists skull in defense of self or others.
> 
> Check your own laws, but every state I've lived in worked as such.


I don't disagree and have no issue upholding that viewpoint, in principle. The key is to ensure others see it the same, sometimes easier said than done, especially in certain crowds.  Thus, the "trickier" part. Other states make this easier to defend.


----------



## RackMaster (May 29, 2020)

And now this.  



> Protests are rocking the United States tonight. Brooklyn, Manhattan, Memphis, Atlanta, Denver, Minneapolis, Houston, Los Angeles, Louisville, and Washington DC have all experienced mass convergences of people in public spaces.



BREAKING: White House under lockdown as protest outside grows


----------



## JacktheShortKid2001 (May 29, 2020)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...rge-floyd-protest-updates-05-28-20/index.html

Some live feed from ATL, I am in shock, just wow.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Guess we won't be shutting down the economy ever again.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Hating this for the mentality bolded above.   I've seen/heard repeatedly from the pro-looter crowd as though it somehow excuses their actions or makes it acceptable in some idiotic way. 👎


It doesn’t excuse their actions, but I also won’t get particularly upset if Target or Autozone get looted.  What I’m attempting to do is draw a strong distinction between the items being looted (which are replaceable) and the lives being threatened here (which are not).  Pull a knife on someone to defend your life, or the life of your loved ones.  Don’t pull a knife to prevent a $50 microwave from getting jacked


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Curfew starts in <30 min.  Still a large crowd in downtown Mpls.  We'll see what goes down shortly.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Wowzer.  St. Cloud, MN.
Huge Somali population up there.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't disagree and have no issue upholding that viewpoint, in principle. The key is to ensure others see it the same, sometimes easier said than done, especially in certain crowds.  Thus, the "trickier" part. Other states make this easier to defend.



*609.065*

look it up...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Don and Clear!


----------



## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> It doesn’t excuse their actions, but I also won’t get particularly upset if Target or Autozone get looted.  What I’m attempting to do is draw a strong distinction between the items being looted (which are replaceable) and the lives being threatened here (which are not).  Pull a knife on someone to defend your life, or the life of your loved ones.  Don’t pull a knife to prevent a $50 microwave from getting jacked



So because someone has insurance they are okay to loot? I have homeowners insurance does that make my residence okay to ransack?


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> *609.065*
> 
> look it up...


I know it.  You don't need to convince me.  It's those one would face in a court of law that need to be convinced, and believe me, the mindset that we share on this is not necessarily the predominant one here. 

In additon, the statute only provides action in defense of your home, as @Ooh-Rah pointed out, but not your business.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Don and Clear!
> 
> View attachment 34154


What do you think, is 8 bells the buzzer and they just start launching gas?


----------



## Andoni (May 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And now this.
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKING: White House under lockdown as protest outside grows


Live Feed Traffic cam. WH Surrounding area. One camera is on blackout. 

Thanks for the article. This is my hometown. It got me worried.




Also, my answer to @amlove21 's question-- is out. I do support the use of sound as a potentially viable crowd control technique in some circumstances.


----------



## medicchick (May 29, 2020)

There was a protest here last night. My driver got called to tow one vehicle, there were 3 to go. He nabbed a car with newspaper over the license plate that tried to ram the police stations doors (got stopped by the steps). He got water bottles thrown at him but that was it. Now tonight there is more planned so we'll see.


----------



## RackMaster (May 29, 2020)

I might support this "looting". 

BREAKING: CNN headquarters attacked by rioters in Atlanta


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Military Grade does not mean quality!


----------



## Polar Bear (May 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> It doesn’t excuse their actions, but I also won’t get particularly upset if Target or Autozone get looted.  What I’m attempting to do is draw a strong distinction between the items being looted (which are replaceable) and the lives being threatened here (which are not).  Pull a knife on someone to defend your life, or the life of your loved ones.  Don’t pull a knife to prevent a $50 microwave from getting jacked


Really, everyone that worked their is without a job. If it is like the Cincinnati riots they will never be back. The community bitches, well when you act like animals, you get treated like a animal. You don’t have nice things. Still don’t have a grocery store.


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

So, about that whole Covid-19 thing....


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, about that whole Covid-19 thing....


That was wild, right?? Glad that’s all over with.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

On the bright side, maybe we find out all the experts were full of shit and large crowd gatherings are OK....


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Here's a guy watching and pulling in a bunch of different feeds.  


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=696605917572923


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Live feed as ‘they’ are walking towards 5th Precinct


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Crowd reportedly unchallenged at 3rd Precinct again.  

Crowds moving freely through downtown.

Fires burning again.  Protesters challenging police and curfew saying they can't arrest them all.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

Atlanta Mayor's Address:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266558138339209216


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Crowd reportedly unchallenged at 3rd Precinct again.
> 
> Crowds moving freely through downtown.
> 
> Fires burning again.  *Protesters challenging police and curfew saying they can't arrest them all.*



I mean, they aren't exactly wrong.


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I mean, they aren't exactly wrong.



Cue temporary internment camps.

How's that curfew going?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Cue temporary internment camps.
> 
> How's that curfew going?



Welp, that would definitely require the military to do.

Also, look at what's happening all around the country; imagine how many other cities would start burning if they announced they were going to start internment camps to control the population.


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Welp, that would definitely require the military to do.
> 
> Also, look at what's happening all around the country; imagine how many other cities would start burning if they announced they were going to start internment camps to control the population.




Was speaking more in jest, but the option right now is you let MLPS burn and give the looters the chance to get their fill on violence. Or you start enforcing and cracking down with crowd control, but the question then is if it escalates further from there. 

Not even halfway through 2020 yet.


----------



## amlove21 (May 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> On the bright side, maybe we find out all the experts were full of shit and large crowd gatherings are OK....


Can’t wait to see post riot contract tracing tending on CNN and Fox.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 29, 2020)

I will say this and as an Admin you can call me what you want. I ask the rest of the staff not to jump in. Because this is a sensitive matter. I will not ban anyone because of their response, this is just me speaking. This is just ridiculous, loot for a death of a man. This is not a protest, this is anarchy. Martin Luther protested. I personally would authorize lock and load at this time. This shit would end really quickly, because none of them would give up their life for the cause  or a large screen. You want to protest, the protest. This is rioting. Game on


----------



## Blizzard (May 29, 2020)

Back to a comment about this being about systemaric racism v. someone just being an asshole.

What is really being "protested"?  Has anyone actually seen ANYBODY try to defend Chauvin's actions? I haven't...and that's unusual these days.

So, it seems pretty clear to virtually everyone that what took place was wrong.  As a result, just as expected the  perpetrator is being prosecuted and investigation continues..  So, does that make this evidence of systemic racism? That's a bit if a leap.  However, that's the argument "protesters" are using.  This is a bit of myth v. fact; perception v. reality.

This isn't to suggest racism doesn't exist.  Does it exist at some systematic level as is  being argued?  Is this evidence of it? That's still too big a leap for me.  We live in a world where people have a twisted view of reality, are far too easily manipulated, and unwilling to accept personal accountability.  These factors fuel the perceptions held by those protesting.  What exactly is the change they want to see occur?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

10:30pm Central time:


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> I will say this and as an Admin you can call me what you want. I ask the rest of the staff not to jump in. Because this is a sensitive matter. I will not ban anyone because of their response, this is just me speaking. This is just ridiculous, loot for a death of a man. This is not a protest, this is anarchy. Martin Luther protested. I personally would authorize lock and load at this time. This shit would end really quickly, because none of them would give up their life for the cause  or a large screen. You want to protest, the protest. This is rioting. Game on



And Martin Luther also understood why his contemporaries rioted, even though he didn't agree with it.

People always like to bring up how they'd support the Civil Rights movement if "they were alive" back then; but comments about being down to shoot protestors says otherwise.

The riots are trash, but I'm not about to kill other Americans for some buildings.


----------



## Andoni (May 29, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> You want to protest, the protest.


I agree with you want to protest, protest. 

Separately, I also believe protecting people and their person, is important. 

I also feel like there is so much information I can't even discern what is actually happening. Shit is wild. I'm glad for this forum because it cuts through the confusion, a bit. People on my social media are going crazy from every direction.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> And Martin Luther also understood why his contemporaries rioted, even though he didn't agree with it.
> 
> People always like to bring up how they'd support the Civil Rights movement if "they were alive" back then; but comments about being down to shoot protestors says otherwise.
> 
> The riots are trash, but I'm not about to kill other Americans for some buildings.



I am. Those people's property and those people specifically who own that, didn't fucking kill that guy. You wanna throw hands? throw hands at who matters, and go bow up to the man's riot control lines, not Jim Bobs fucking Whisky Emporium or Laqifguano's Hair Bazzar and BBQ.

You want to just thrash peoples shit for no fucking reason, you're just as much of a problem.

Would I build a business front in an urban area where shit's historically gone down, hardened, so you couldn't break in and loot in the first place? Yes.

Would I use LTL first to try to convince retreat? Yes. 

But all said and done, your "right to protest" ends right at the fucking doorstep of MY GODDAMN PROPERTY.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 29, 2020)

Wanna watch a building catch on fire?  They are 'trying'


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> And Martin Luther also understood why his contemporaries rioted, even though he didn't agree with it.
> 
> People always like to bring up how they'd support the Civil Rights movement if "they were alive" back then; but comments about being down to shoot protestors says otherwise.
> 
> The riots are trash, but I'm not about to kill other Americans for some buildings.



These aren't protesters anymore.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Leadership in Dallas.  What a novel concept....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266578542353166340


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 30, 2020)

MC just brought something to me that made me chuckle heavily.

Due to the economic issues from the COVID shutdown, there's a program where there's a rotation for high ranking people within the FD, PD, etc to rotate in/out of unpaid furlough.

Right now, it's the Chief of Police's unpaid time off.... his XO or whoever is having to handle this bullshit. LOL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Breaking into a bank on the video feed....isn't that a Federal Crime?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> I am. Those people's property and those people specifically who own that, didn't fucking kill that guy. You wanna throw hands? throw hands at who matters, and go bow up to the man's riot control lines, not Jim Bobs fucking Whisky Emporium or Laqifguano's Hair Bazzar and BBQ.
> 
> You want to just thrash peoples shit for no fucking reason, you're just as much of a problem.
> 
> ...


I mean, they burnt down the police precinct, so I'd say that's throwing hands at the man.

I'm at the point where I'll trust business owners to defend their property over anyone in the Police force or National Guard from doing so. So you with a gun/CS gas? All for it.

I'm also for community defense, like the videos @racing_kitty @R.Caerbannog and myself have shared


----------



## J. (May 30, 2020)

Confirmed planned protests to start in 
J-Vegas tomorrow, 

DONT. FUCK. WITH. MY. WALMART.


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

No leadership in Mpls for the 4th straight night.

Dispersing the crowds shouldn't be a huge solve. It's 57 degrees right now.  Bring out the fire hoses.  No one enjoys being cold and wet.  Order has to be restored.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

I have to share this video one more time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266578542353166340


----------



## SaintKP (May 30, 2020)

Well, at the very least it's nice to see there is a line the rioters won't cross.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266571286010085377


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Police are engaging.

Live stream back up.


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Police are engaging.
> 
> Live stream back up.


Way too fucking late. What were they waiting for? Still making a plan? This is asinine.  Still need to see exactly what action they take.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Why set yourself up for a physical clash with higher probability of injury when you can likely disperse them with water?

The entire hands off approach to those disturbing the peace here is a huge issue and can be traced back to how they choose to allow BLM protests to shut down highways.  It's unacceptable.

I fully support people's right to voice their opinions, etc. but when you disrupt the peace and infringe upon others, my tolerance ends.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

Tonight's protest which was already a riot anyways has now been declared an unlawful disturbance.  They will begin forcefully removing the crowd in Downtown Phoenix.

Some piece of a shit rioter just punched a reporter in the face on AZ Family.


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 34163


Was just going to post the same.  Leave the area or we'll send out another strongly worded Tweet. 🙄


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266581354998792192


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266581354998792192


"We're live on TV so we shouldn't give this business owner anytime of day so that we can craft our narrative"


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 30, 2020)

If anyone's wondering how the rioters are moving around, getting fed, and getting supplied look up the Democratic Socialists of America. These guys and similar organizations are behind the rioting and unrest. Figure out who funds them and you figure out who's orchestrated this chaos. 

Example from MN and the Twin Cities DSA branch:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1265909138254630914
Stay safe guys.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

So...MP Battalions on alert.



> DELRAY BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Pentagon takes rare step of putting military police on alert to go to embattled Minneapolis.



Pentagon takes rare step of putting military police on alert to go to embattled Minneapolis


----------



## J. (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "We're live on TV so we shouldn't give this business owner anytime of day so that we can craft our narrative"



Swear Words Bad Mmkay

What a joke to ignore a real American who cares.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)




----------



## SaintKP (May 30, 2020)

Honest question, why hasn't Antifa been labeled as a terrorist organization yet?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 30, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Honest question, why hasn't Antifa been labeled as a terrorist organization yet?


This is why...
DNC Chairman Keith Ellison Appears to Join Antifa's Cause

Edit: Found his deleted twitter picture.


----------



## AWP (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 34164


'"Incidents?" You need the NG for "incidents?" What a way to craft your words, Governor...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Fuck off, Minneapolis.

I'm going to bed.


----------



## ChangeSocks (May 30, 2020)

I post very little, but a protest is being organized for Raleigh tomorrow. That is all.


----------



## medicchick (May 30, 2020)

So Portland has rioting, fires burning and now the Justice center has been broken into. "Protestors" are smashing computers and whatnot, SWAT is going in...


----------



## GOTWA (May 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Very interesting comments from the ME in the criminal complaint against Officer Chauvin.
> 
> See third paragraph below.
> View attachment 34147
> ...



If that knee was corona, that would be considered the cause of death. Just saying.


----------



## medicchick (May 30, 2020)

And now a shooting and the justice center/police station is burning...


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Governor of MN just finished another pointless press conference where he basically conceded to riots throughout the weekend.  A complete clusterfuck.

Key takeaway: Don't expect the government to protect you.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 30, 2020)

*GRAPHIC WARNING* Looter Reported Shot By Pawn Shop Owner In Minneapolis During Riots – Concealed Nation

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

From a tactical stand point, if I were in charge of the protesters I would be hitting the suburban shopping areas tonight.


----------



## AWP (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> From a tactical stand point, if I were in charge of the protesters I would be hitting the suburban shopping areas tonight.



History has shown that an army living off the land can ill afford to linger in an area that is denuded of resources.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Honest question, why hasn't Antifa been labeled as a terrorist organization yet?



Same as why the KKK and Aryan Nation aren't; because (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Domestic groups as a whole aren't designated like that.

From the FBI page on Extremist Groups



> Violent extremists based in the United States have different beliefs that lead them to commit crimes and acts of violence. Some of the most common domestic ideologies are listed here. *It is important to note that it is legal to have hateful or extremist beliefs as long as you don’t commit crimes or violence based on those beliefs. The right to assemble (or gather) in groups is also protected by the U.S. Constitution.*



Nothing illegal about supplying "protesters"


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Very interesting comments from the ME in the criminal complaint against Officer Chauvin.
> 
> See third paragraph below.
> View attachment 34147
> ...



Why would you leave the start of that sentence of of your quoted text?




> *The combined effects of Mr Floyd being restrained by police*



All the medical examiner said is he didn't find evidence of those two causes of death, not that the officer played no role.

Now, I'm just the most basic of basic EMTs, but I'm sure one of the other medics/docs on this board can explain how Floyd's CAD and Hypertensive Heart Disease may have been exacerbated to the point of (probable heart failure) by a man kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds.


----------



## Devildoc (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266581354998792192



What's the quote from that movie Network?  "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"?

I'm surprised Durham doesn't have something planned or something going on. I mean, here they pretty much protest over just about anything these days.  That's disappointing. Now I have to drive 30 minutes to Raleigh to sit on the sidewalk with some popcorn and watch.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

These shipwrecks have attacked the federal court house.  Do we really need federal law enforcement in Phoenix right now?  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266679655974625281


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Kind of feel bad for future high schoolers  because that History section on 2020 is going to be HEFTY!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 30, 2020)

For those of you wondering how the Marxists (DSA, BLM, ANTIFA, etc) are pulling this off.


Spoiler: Example of their TTP's in action



Windows/entry points broken by provocateurs, opens opportunity to looting, then building is set alight.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266705070198083584





Spoiler: Andy Ngo Text










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266582447195488258


Spoiler: Supposedly Staged Equipment





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266699326832640001





Spoiler: Use of 'Human Barriers"


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

Poor Guard boots getting clowned on by the protesters. I feel bad for those kids





__ https://www.facebook.com/100000948856789/posts/3808681439173447


----------



## Kraut783 (May 30, 2020)

Dallas had demonstrations that turned bad last night. Crazy times....

Chaos erupts overnight in Downtown Dallas following protests over George Floyd's death


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> For those of you wondering how the Marxists (DSA, BLM, ANTIFA, etc) are pulling this off.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Example of their TTP's in action
> ...


Good, highlight their methods and involvement. 
I'm not going to get upset about an organization "supplying protesters". Any movement needs logistical support to work. 

But if you can get the ones actively burning buildings? By all means do it.

On that note, the same thing is going to happen with police out there as well. As much as you're going on about elites, you have to be aware of the numerous times undercover officers have been caught attempting to start riots at otherwise peaceful protests.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266711880195813382


----------



## Polar Bear (May 30, 2020)

Cincinnati had a nice riot last night. Very specific area OTR. Over the Rhine, a 100 years ago it was German. I stood in the room, which my grandfather was born in 1909. It turned into a shithole during the 60’s. In the 90’s people wanted to revitalize it. It has turned around but last night everything was undone. Black, Asian, Korean, White, fucking green etc shops where destroyed. I can not wrap my head around this.


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Our "leaders" don't really have a plan and are slow to react. Turn off cell towers and city run WiFi in the area so rioters can't communicate/coordinate as easily, then turn on the fire hoses.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

This dickhead's lack of leadership and emasculation of his police force is one of the major reasons that riots and burning shit is normal in Portland. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266611601211224064


----------



## Florida173 (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This dickhead's lack of leadership and emasculation of his police force is one of the major reasons that riots and burning shit is normal in Portland.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266611601211224064



I think most people paying attention would automatically think of Portland when it comes to this shit... so it would indeed be them.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Your Minnesota State Attorney General, ladies and gents....

The pic is from his 2018 Twitter feed and is NOT photoshopped.

Good luck, Minnesota.  You got what your "One Minnesota" voted for....

As an FYI, the job description of a State's Attorney General:
_"State attorneys general enforce both state and federal laws. They are sworn to uphold the United States' constitution and laws as well as the state's."_


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (May 30, 2020)

ter·ror·ism/ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun - the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


----------



## racing_kitty (May 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Good, highlight their methods and involvement.
> I'm not going to get upset about an organization "supplying protesters". Any movement needs logistical support to work.
> 
> But if you can get the ones actively burning buildings? By all means do it.
> ...


Not to be overly snide, but my restaurant bought earpieces just like that to use with PMRs (Aka: half decent walkie-talkie) to use when I was turning dine-in levels of traffic through one little side office and a giant parking lot. It’s not as good as the ones I used on VIPSA trips, but they’re inexpensive.

Not saying this guy isn’t a cop, but you can’t rule out the possibility he’s just a leftist geardo.


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

At least we seem to be peaceful. This a few blocks away from me.

'Justice for George' protest brings over 2,000 people to Capital Square


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266789028537516032


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Not to be overly snide, but my restaurant bought earpieces just like that to use with PMRs (Aka: half decent walkie-talkie) to use when I was turning dine-in levels of traffic through one little side office and a giant parking lot. It’s not as good as the ones I used on VIPSA trips, but they’re inexpensive.
> 
> Not saying this guy isn’t a cop, but you can’t rule out the possibility he’s just a leftist geardo.



Sure he could be a leftist geardo.
But if we've reached a point where any single protestor could possibly be a "George Soros funded ANTIFA instigator", then we've also reached the point where guys showing up with gas masks and ear pieces could be Police Instigators.

All I want is for social media and people with camera phones to catch assholes, whether protestor or government employee.


----------



## Devildoc (May 30, 2020)

Okay, I spoke too fast.

Expecting "hundreds" of protesters in my city.


----------



## DA SWO (May 30, 2020)

Cenotaph at rhe Alamo was vandalized a couple of days ago. 25 year old Hispanic is being questioned.
Black activist group (that over ran, and controlled the Alamo for a short period of time in the 70's) is having a rally a few blocks from the Alamo.  Rt Wing activist have taken over Alamo security (same armed group ran the independent brown berets out of the Alamo in the 70's).



amlove21 said:


> Oh, cool. So let me get this right.
> 
> Twitter- which the president just issued an executive order against- is the mode of communication where the president is threatening to allow the “shooting to start”.
> 
> ...



Looters are shooting, remember when the looting starts the shooting starts.  



Florida173 said:


> Does this make her a hero or a villain in this story?


Stupid.



Ooh-Rah said:


> 100% true.  As they say in MN Carry Classes:
> - You can shoot to protect your car if you are in the car; but you cannot shoot to protect your car from the house.
> - You can shoot to protect your house once they are 'in' your house...but you cannot shoot them on your front yard *
> 
> *  I'll take my chances if they have a can of gas and rags in their hands.



Hopefully they can't figure out who shot?  FWIW-rumor has it that a 20 oz pop bottle filled with 5 oz of liquid can be used as an improvised sound reducer.


Ooh-Rah said:


> Don and Clear!
> 
> View attachment 34154



Those look like cops to me.



SaintKP said:


> Cue temporary internment camps.
> 
> How's that curfew going?





Cookie_ said:


> Welp, that would definitely require the military to do.
> 
> Also, look at what's happening all around the country; imagine how many other cities would start burning if they announced they were going to start internment camps to control the population.



You can turn a sports arena into a holding cell, catch and release the locals.  Put the out of towners into the county lockup.  Those pasty white antifa kids are not jail ready.



ThunderHorse said:


> Tonight's protest which was already a riot anyways has now been declared an unlawful disturbance.  They will begin forcefully removing the crowd in Downtown Phoenix.
> 
> Some piece of a shit rioter just punched a reporter in the face on AZ Family.



Hazards of the job.



Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 34163


Again, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.  Maybe that's what POTUS meant?


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Again, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Maybe that's what POTUS meant?



He qualified his tweet stating exactly that and listing incidents of protesters shooting others.

FWIW, that is how I originally read it. Not the advocating of shooting looters, but highlighting the cause and effect.


----------



## GOTWA (May 30, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> FWIW, that is how I originally read it. Not the advocating of shooting looters, but highlighting the cause and effect.



Same.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

St Paul PD made arrests last night...every one of them was not a resident of Minnesota. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266741567961825284


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> St Paul PD made arrests last night...every one of them was not a resident of Minnesota.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266741567961825284


----------



## amlove21 (May 30, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Looters are shooting, remember when the looting starts the shooting starts.... Maybe that's what POTUS meant?


Yeah, guess we will never know with his history of lying about literally everything, gaslighting, and walking back his previous statements.

Like every other dumbass thing he tweets, I guess if you’re a republican he meant one thing and if you’re anything else he meant another.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 34184


The mayor said in his statement compared to Minneapolis it was a "quiet" night.



amlove21 said:


> Yeah, guess we will never know with his history of lying about literally everything, gaslighting, and walking back his previous statements.
> 
> Like every other dumbass thing he tweets, I guess if you’re a republican he meant one thing and if you’re anything else he meant another.



That's a great statement, but the rioters in fact shot each other in Kentucky.  So, it's not exactly implausible!


----------



## Polar Bear (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The mayor said in his statement compared to Minneapolis it was a "quiet" night.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great statement, but the rioters in fact shot each other in Kentucky.  So, it's not exactly implausible!


Yes the morons down here in KY shot each other. It is going to be another exciting night. Cincinnati and Louisvillie in the shitter


----------



## DZ (May 30, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Yeah, guess we will never know with his history of lying about literally everything, gaslighting, and walking back his previous statements.
> 
> Like every other dumbass thing he tweets, I guess if you’re a republican he meant one thing and if you’re anything else he meant another.


Or just maybe it's possible to be a republican/conservative and also think POTUS tweets/says really retarded things; like the tweet in question.

ETA: but with how some people blindly defend him, I can see where you're coming from.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Like every other dumbass thing he tweets, I guess if you’re a republican he meant one thing and if you’re anything else he meant another.


Nope.

I’m a Republican, and simply by the amount of times I’ve been “reported” by members for challenging them on Trump’s words should tell you what you need to know about “that”.


----------



## GOTWA (May 30, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Yeah, guess we will never know with his history of lying about literally everything, gaslighting, and walking back his previous statements.
> 
> Like every other dumbass thing he tweets, I guess if you’re a republican he meant one thing and if you’re anything else he meant another.


Made me think of this.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If anyone's wondering how the rioters are moving around, getting fed, and getting supplied look up the Democratic Socialists of America. These guys and similar organizations are behind the rioting and unrest. Figure out who funds them and you figure out who's orchestrated this chaos.
> 
> Example from MN and the Twin Cities DSA branch:
> 
> ...


First aid supplies and PPE?  This sounds very reasonable.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

There is a decent protest outside the downtown precinct here in Colorado Springs.

What I didn't expect? Blue Lives and Black Lives Matter protestors on the same side of the street chanting the same things.


----------



## AWP (May 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> What I didn't expect? Blue Lives and Black Lives Matter protestors on the same side of the street chanting the same things.



You're making shit up now. America isn't that united.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)




----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

AWP said:


> You're making shit up now. America isn't that united.


I swear to God I didn't believe it myself.

Signs I saw went

"Black Lives Matter"
"Cops kill people here too"
"Blue Lives Matter" 
"No more Brutality"


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

And, while at a bar, we just had 50ish officers show up in full riot, and canisters emptied of CS. Lit the place up after one jewelry store broken into.


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

Pic of the third wave.


----------



## Muppet (May 30, 2020)

Philly getting rocked now. I'm working the medic unit less than 10 miles north of Philly. My county lies half way between Philly and Trenton NJ. I have many friends on PPD and PFD in the middle of this fucking mess, including our own Policemedic, he is ok so far, busy. 

My wife is staying at her folks until I'm done work. I'm not far from my pops, he has an armory. 

Fucking assholes. Minnesota had the world stage to tell the story on murder of an American. They fucking blew it. Now, out of towners and Antifa are being bussed in to riot.

Who brings milk and helmets to a protest? Lol.

MLK is rolling in his grave...

For anyone near this shit, keep your powder dry, thank you Polar Bear for his message to me.

Guess social distancing is not required now?


----------



## BloodStripe (May 30, 2020)

'You're gonna kill me!': Dallas police body cam footage reveals the final minutes of Tony Timpa's life

Guess I'm supposed to be joining in the riots and looting now.


----------



## Dame (May 30, 2020)

And the shooting has now killed a Fed and wounded another in Oakland.
Oakland: 1 federal officer killed, 1 wounded; police say shooting appears ‘unrelated’ to protests

ETA: The shooting took place less than half a mile away from the Oakland Police Headquarters where demonstrators gathered beginning around 8 p.m. to protest Floyd’s killing.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)




----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

One of the guys in my unit used to be part of the MPs up in Minnesota.

He just sent us this info/photo from a buddy in his previous unit.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/100000948856789/posts/3809985345709723
			




I know some people here probably have a (justifiable) issue with Shaun King, but he's the first one I've seen post this video so far.

Why would they pull him back out of the vehicle if he was already in the back?


----------



## BloodStripe (May 30, 2020)

Chief joins demonstrators in Norfolk as rally takes place outside police operations center

We did have protestors shut down the HRBT last night. Outside of that everything has been peaceful.


----------



## amlove21 (May 30, 2020)

I barely made it out of Seattle. Full on curfew of 5 pm enacted. I-5 (main superhighway) closed in both directions.

Talked to a couple friends in Philly, and they are equally as undramatic as I am bout these sorts of things- they’re actually prepared for some nearly unfashionable outcomes.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Oh.  Fuck.  This.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266877271865987072


----------



## RackMaster (May 30, 2020)

In case you want to check out the shit around the country on Snapchat. 

Snap Map


----------



## Devildoc (May 30, 2020)

Oh, no.  No no no no.  That's no bueno.  Getting close to time to spit on your hands and hoist the black flag.  

I won't start anything, but I'll sure as hell end it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Well goodie....I fucking told EVERYONE they were going to hit the suburbs.
This is 7pm,  ....literally 10 minutes from my house.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

So, since the Nashville Mayor incited a riot against his own city, can he be put in jail now?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266761804316921858
Chicago:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266888208731770880
You know, I'm good with that.  Nike as a company has been a part of the problem, especially with that bullshit ad yesterday.


Los Angeles:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266864259813773312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266886163735826434


----------



## Marine0311 (May 30, 2020)

My AO is quit but our police force is on alert


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

NYPD literally 'driving thru them'


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266897573610127360


----------



## Isiah6:8 (May 30, 2020)

Chicago raised the bridges in the loop.  They are barricading streets with buses as well to divert the crowds. Streets and Sanitation trucks doing the same on other main streets. Squad car was set on fire already.  They are throwing fireworks at fire trucks as well.

ROE for CPD is no force allowed due to “extensive media pressure” as of right now.


----------



## RackMaster (May 30, 2020)

Which one of you did this? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266889290828492800


----------



## Blizzard (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 34184


Yeah, I was going to call bullshit on that as well.  But, more importantly, who cares? They're here and they're staying somewhere.

For my WTF moment of the day, I present you with this gem:

We all saw the reports of the 3rd Precinct being overrun the other night.  Well, maybe Minneapolis PD does need an overhaul/retraining program because they left ammo and equipment behind, which then looters promptly seized.  Seriously.  What. The. Actual. Fuck?!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266816121711276033


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> NYPD literally 'driving thru them'
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266897573610127360



They used a rolling blockade of police vehicles here to move people back. It's still ongoing. I was hoping for some nice fresh, cool air tonight; I had to close all my windows from the gas.

And, if you look above, I was praising the protesters earlier today.

One thing I will note...sitting safely in the bar we got locked into, we kept witnessing the same 3 individuals come with a group, and said three would hurl rocks from a backpack. They would then run back and reappear with the next group and repeat.

They were the only three we saw tossing rocks directly at cops.

We saw plenty others looting, but these three seemed to lead the group toward the police, and retreat first every single time. We saw it repeat 3 times at least (there were a few surges we retreated from the windows).


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh.  Fuck.  This.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266877271865987072



Fuck those attacking the cops, but glad to see others jumped in to stop the shit.



ThunderHorse said:


> Chicago:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266888208731770880
> You know, I'm good with that.  Nike as a company has been a part of the problem, especially with that bullshit ad yesterday.



So you're good with it when it's a company you dont like? Seems like pretty flimsy reasoning then, but ok.



RackMaster said:


> Which one of you did this?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266889290828492800



Apparently that was the bodyguard for the camera crew. Dude felt the situation was unsafe and made it safe like a BAMF


----------



## SaintKP (May 30, 2020)

Protests first started today where I live, peaceful and I don't imagine it becoming violent but the city isn't taking chances. Roads closed off and businesses closed down early. Talks of placing a curfew here but just talks.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So you're good with it when it's a company you dont like? Seems like pretty flimsy reasoning then, but ok.


You may have missed this stupid ad that they posted yesterday that literally is inciting riots.



ThunderHorse said:


> Dear Nike and any other sportsballer people...STFU.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266502116463370241



So, yeah I find it funny in a very dark comedic sort of way.  But Nike has jumped on many of these events and perpetuated the divide to sell shoes and show they are "woke".


----------



## medicchick (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This dickhead's lack of leadership and emasculation of his police force is one of the major reasons that riots and burning shit is normal in Portland.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266611601211224064


He wasn't even here last night, he was out of town.


That was the Justice Center/police station last night after the fire was out.

Those are the steps they are 3 deep on on a regular day. They are also where we towed a car from (plate covered with newspaper) when they tried to ram the doors.  We later towed 2 stolen vehicles used to ram stores downtown. So glad it's my weekend...


----------



## Cookie_ (May 30, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266905387678044161
So, I drove past here roughly a hour ago after I passed by the first time.

That road the protesters are across?
The police blocked it off two intersections up from the road the protesters were facing to set up a detour, before the protestors were in the road.

So someone explain to me how gassing a peaceful protest, on a road the cops already closed off, way a good idea?

ETA: He didn't even finish his order to disperse.

Where are all the Constitutionalists now? Because right to assembly is a pretty fucking big one, but all I ever hear them talk about is guns


----------



## Polar Bear (May 30, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Philly getting rocked now.


.         my offer still stands


----------



## SaintKP (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You may have missed this stupid ad that they posted yesterday that literally is inciting riots.
> 
> 
> 
> So, yeah I find it funny in a very dark comedic sort of way.  But Nike has jumped on many of these events and perpetuated the divide to sell shoes and show they are "woke".




I didn't read that ad as inciting violence and telling people to burn down businesses and fight with police. Maybe I'm missing something?

ETA: Crazy how we can all interpret things entirely differently whether it be a mediocre shoe company or a human cheeto.


----------



## Kaldak (May 30, 2020)

We now have squad cars burning and more business being looted.

My question:
Was I wrong for hoping a city known for mostly peaceful protests (yes, Vietnam era doesn't hold up) would avoid this? Or was I just...Hopeful.


----------



## DZ (May 30, 2020)

This is supposedly video from the market house in down town Fayetteville.





__ https://www.facebook.com/100006947617405/posts/2633093450265550


----------



## Jaknight (May 30, 2020)

LAPD using the baton to restore order 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266871434816692224


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 30, 2020)

medicchick said:


> He wasn't even here last night, he was out of town.
> 
> View attachment 34194
> That was the Justice Center/police station last night after the fire was out.
> ...


City Hall and the Historic courthouse are on fire now.  What a jackass of a mayor.

Nashville's historic courthouse and city hall set on fire


----------



## Raptor (May 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You may have missed this stupid ad that they posted yesterday that literally is inciting riots.
> 
> 
> 
> So, yeah I find it funny in a very dark comedic sort of way.  But Nike has jumped on many of these events and perpetuated the divide to sell shoes and show they are "woke".


I have no love for Nike (for reasons already mentioned in this thread), but to say that video is inciting riots is a bit hyperbole. I know people interpret things differently, shown perfectly by all the different reactions we had to one of Trump's tweets, but I don't even see how that could be construed as encouraging violence, whereas with the Trump tweet I could at least see why some people interpreted it different ways.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 30, 2020)

Nike can eat a bag of dicks, they pander to the BLM groups; just go re-watch the Kappernick commercials.


----------



## SaintKP (May 30, 2020)

DZ said:


> This is supposedly video from the market house in down town Fayetteville.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is, whether that molly does anything and the building is standing in the morning I don't know.


----------



## Jaknight (May 30, 2020)

I haven’t given an Opinion on this because I felt sympathetic to their cause and was conflicted on the Police and Feds using extreme force but after all we have seen especially this  video. Fuck those guys I hope the Cops restore full order by any means necessary 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266929563046576128


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

I hate people.



Spoiler: NSFW





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266929563046576128


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Just heard 9 rapid fire rounds within about a mile.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Can we all agree that maybe trying to take on a crowd with a bow is a super fucking bad idea?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266907714258534400
He's ok btw. Just doesn't mention he got jumped AFTER pointing his bow at people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266908912344850433


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I haven’t given an Opinion on this because I felt sympathetic to their cause and was conflicted on the Police and Feds using extreme force but after all we have seen especially this  video. Fuck those guys I hope the Cops restore full order by any means necessary
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266929563046576128



Fucking hate this shit, doubly so because I think everyone on this board probably understood it was only a matter of time til this happened.

There will be more deaths; of officers, bystanders, protesters, and rioters before this is finished.
It's a fucking shame. The only upside to videos of this is the potential to get the fuckers that did this.


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Just heard 9 rapid fire rounds within about a mile.




Stay safe man.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Whatever is happening today has nothing to do with George Floyd.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Someone needs to teach Governor Walz's daughter about OPSEC....


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

I laugh because literally what purpose does her saying that serve? That's like telling the friends at your house party that its a false alarm the cops were going somewhere else. Rage on.


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266927365881462784
I can't find anything to verify this, but if it's true shits about to really hit the fan and fast.


----------



## Raptor (May 31, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I hate people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Other tweets are saying he survived.


----------



## The Quartermaster (May 31, 2020)

This is being organized. They waited for the opportunity and this was it to exploit.

Please prove me wrong.


----------



## Kaldak (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Can we all agree that maybe trying to take on a crowd with a bow is a super fucking bad idea?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266907714258534400
> ...



I'm curious as to how you see this adding value? I'm asking in all sincerity. 

I don't see it, so could you please elaborate for me?


----------



## racing_kitty (May 31, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266927365881462784
> I can't find anything to verify this, but if it's true shits about to really hit the fan and fast.



Here ya go,compliments of the Wall St. Journal. No paywall for this one. Looks like 82nd and 10th Mtn.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Someone needs to teach Governor Walz's daughter about OPSEC....
> 
> View attachment 34196


Is she HOT?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266927365881462784
> I can't find anything to verify this, but if it's true shits about to really hit the fan and fast.


Seems as if it could be a possibility. A few places are reporting on it. Honestly, if this shit gets any worse I could see it happening. Pentagon Orders Military Police To Prepare To Deploy To Minnesota


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I'm curious as to how you see this adding value? I'm asking in all sincerity.
> 
> I don't see it, so could you please elaborate for me?



I see the value in pretty much any video from these riots, as that gives us a picture of what is actually happening. If there's value in sharing a clip of a man getting assaulted and (possibly) killed on video, there's value in a clip of a man threatening the crowd with a weapon, getting jumped for it, and then trying to paint himself as an innocent victim to reporters.

Now if you're talking about my commentary of the clips?
It adds no more or no less value than anyone else's.


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

The Quartermaster said:


> This is being organized. They waited for the opportunity and this was it to exploit.
> 
> Please prove me wrong.



Granted I'm speaking from one viewpoint but that's one thing I've noticed all over social media is that during the daytime protests have largely been peaceful with no real violent altercations (at least compared to the night time), but once night hits, a growing number of rioters appear to be Antifa. Not only that but that's what a lot of reports are coming out saying that there have been people in crows encouraging mass vandalism then running away as soon as media attention or LE showed up.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Seems as if it could be a possibility. A few places are reporting on it. Honestly, if this shit gets any worse I could see it happening. Pentagon Orders Military Police To Prepare To Deploy To Minnesota


I only want to see them here if they're going to do a massive drop into the city, Red Dawn style.  That'd be kick ass to see.  

Aside from that, I'd just like our "leaders" and law enforcement to get their shit together; after 4 days, seems they're finally getting it done tonight.  But there is going to be a shit ton to account for after this all settles down.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Good night Minneapolis.  You can still fuck off, but not as hard as the past few nights.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266927365881462784
> I can't find anything to verify this, but if it's true shits about to really hit the fan and fast.



My old MSIII Master Sergeant executed his retirement jump this morning...but don't think they're "mobilizing" for anything else.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Having trouble attaching the video, but there are intermittent explosions going off within earshot.

Can't determine if they're fireworks or something else.

ETA: As best I can see from twitter, people are still down marching (on sidewalks) and chanting "you can't demand shit" to the police telling them it is now an unlawful gathering.

Police are deploying CS canisters and what seemed to be flashbangs in one video. 
That's what we're hearing here


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Is she HOT?


No...and she's in high school.  She's also wrong, a lot of Guard out tonight.


----------



## The Quartermaster (May 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> No...and she's in high school.  She's also wrong, a lot of Guard out tonight.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

A word from Killer Mike and TI:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266556854869602310


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266905387678044161
> So, I drove past here roughly a hour ago after I passed by the first time.
> 
> That road the protesters are across?
> ...



I think at this point the message has been received and anything further is setting the stage for more vandalism, looting, and violence. It's baiting.


----------



## Bypass (May 31, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> Question - If cities are being burned down throughout the US because of riots, and there are not enough LEOs to handle the situation, do you let the cities burn or do you send in troops? If you send in troops and they are attacked, do the troops stand and take it or do they defend themselves? This is what I see taking place in the future if rioters realize nothing will be done to them.


The military will be used as window dressing in these riots. And we all know what happens to windows.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

So when can we get an EO labeling ANTIFA an ITO?


----------



## Gordus (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> That video is fucking disgusting.
> 
> "He can talk, he's fine."
> 
> ...



What upsets me more is that some people commenting on that video try to come up with the most redicilous excuses to why the officer definitly had to keep kneeling on a suspect's neck even when he was unconscious. I get standing up for the police, but I can't stand when ppl defend obvious malpractice, abuse of power and crimes like that.


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

And Hollywood doesn't disappoint. 

Don Cheadle, Seth Rogen, Kehlani and More Donate to Minnesota Freedom Fund


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> A word from Killer Mike and TI:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266556854869602310



That's a pretty powerful speech from Killer Mike. To bad some other cities don't have community figureheads like him which are willing/able to try and be a voice of reason.



GOTWA said:


> I think at this point the message has been received and anything further is setting the stage for more vandalism, looting, and violence. It's baiting.



Are you saying the protestors were baiting, or the cops?
Because protestors had a permit to be where they were, and everything I've been able to find/hear from sources their is that it was peaceful up until the cops gassed them.


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

I guess we know how this will be played out during the election. 

Biden campaign staffers donate to group that bails out jailed Minneapolis protesters: report


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> That's a pretty powerful speech from Killer Mike. To bad some other cities don't have community figureheads like him which are willing/able to try and be a voice of reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm saying the peaceful, non violent protests, which I absolutely agree with, are unwittingly providing an opportunity for these spoilers to come in and create mayhem. With the protest in place, all the ANTIFA assholes need to do is just show up and give a slight push over the edge. At this point, protests, however peaceful, are not going to do anything. They've been overshadowed by the bad actors and any action taken from this point on is going to be because of them. The guy was already arrested. There's already bi-partisan support and the recognition for the need for change. A peaceful protest does nothing except provide another opportunity to set the area on fire.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> So when can we get an EO labeling ANTIFA an ITO?



Screw that, just label them as an criminal organization and treat them as any other street gang.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Screw that, just label them as an criminal organization and treat them as any other street gang.



Don't think it goes far enough and you can use more resources to counter them.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Can someone here defend this? This is disgusting. 


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gts8fh


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Can someone here defend this? This is disgusting.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gts8fh



Needs more context.  Not saying what they did was right and they were paint rounds.  But frankly, how many times do you need to hear someone yelling to get inside, to get inside?


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Needs more context.  Not saying what they did was right and they were paint rounds.  But frankly, how many times do you need to hear someone yelling to get inside, to get inside?



On your own property, filming legally, not breaking the law. I don’t care if a cop says get inside, there is no cause for force. Paint rounds is irrelevant, still a probability of bodily harm.

I dont think all cops are bad, but how much further are we gonna go defending, defending, defending them until we admit they have a systemic issue. I’m not implying they are all bad, or corrupt. I do believe there is a training issue, I think there is a mentality issue, and when a cop on your street says “Light me’ up” at your home while on your front porch, it leads me to believe there’s an ego issue.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Can someone here defend this? This is disgusting.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gts8fh


One of the factors that MPD was dealing with last night,  was engaging the bad-guys and having them suddenly blend into the community by running into yards and sitting on porches/steps like they live there. (sound familiar?).

I'm not saying that was 100% the case here, but it was a big topic of conversation by the local media.  Rioters were very organized, communicating and coordinating police location via Facebook.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> One of the factors that MPD was dealing with last night,  was engaging the bad-guys and having them suddenly blend into the community by running into yards and sitting on porches/steps like they live there. (sound familiar?).
> 
> I'm not saying that was 100% the case here, but it was a big topic of conversation by the local media.  Rioters were very organized, communicating and coordinating police location via Facebook.



Thanks for the context, sounds a lot like AFG. My issue is, police are not the military, and I am worried about the outcome of outfitting them like the military, giving them military style missions, but none of the training and mental conditioning. I think that will lead to even further issues. 

I’m not going to pretend I know what the right answer is, but I don’t believe this is it. Their force shown here is only going to increase their opposition.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> police are not the military, and I am worried about the outcome of outfitting them like the military, giving them military style missions, but none of the training and mental conditioning.


I think that argument went out the window after 9/11.  New York City set the new militarized police bar, and everyone else happily followed.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I think that argument went out the window after 9/11.  New York City set the new militarized police bar, and everyone else happily followed.



Same could be said for information collection...again, I don’t have an answer, but I can easily see this continuing to escalate. It’s a shit show every way around.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Can someone here defend this? This is disgusting.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gts8fh


Yes, I in fact do not find this disgusting.  Minneapolis is now under a strict curfew because they've tried to burn the city down.  The entire MN National Guard has been mobilized and will be on the streets for the foreseeable future it appears.  These kids that were in the video, maybe I'm reading too much into this as riots inch closer and closer to where I live. (I live in Phoenix) But it's time to end this, and ending this will take real force.

In my AO, there was still a protest and riot in the government core, it was pretty peaceful early and was a mobile march but it again settled in front of PHXPD HQ. After about 11, these assholes started throwing shit...as if on cue. But it appears to have been a distraction as about 1030 basically a flashmob appeared in front of Fashion Square and breach several stores.

Looters swarm Scottsdale-area during Saturday night rioting

This was definitely coordinated to be done that way.


If people are trying to cast blame on Antifa, they're not the only ones out there.  Dollars to donuts you've got New Black Panthers out there, the current communist undercurrent groups, sure there's some 3%er and Neo Nazi types out there too.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

MN kind of lost all privileges. Get inside means get inside.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Post



So it justifies using force against people not breaking the law on their own property? Where is the line, or are we going to keep moving it?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> MN kind of lost all privileges. Get inside means get inside.


Rough take. Open question to all of you on the board.

How do you guys feel about gun rights?

Because if it's "all gun laws are infringing my rights" then the police attacking people on their private property unprompted then they are definitely violating their rights.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Rough take. Open question to all of you on the board.
> 
> How do you guys feel about gun rights?
> 
> Because if it's "all gun laws are infringing my rights" then the police attacking people on their private property unprompted then they are definitely violating their rights.



Constitutionally you could make an argument to return with force.

Real life chiming in says you’ll die or have your entire life ruined.

I hate to break it to anyone who believes otherwise but it would take something akin to the Boston Massacre to actually unite an Armed Force of citizens. Anything less will result in what we are seeing now.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> So it justifies using force against people not breaking the law on their own property? Where is the line, or are we going to keep moving it?


So I watched it, they said go inside, end of story.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> So I watched it, they said go inside, end of story.



In my opinion, the police do not get to write my story when it come to my constitutionally protected freedoms. Riot or not, my property, unarmed, standing on my front porch, this is the wrong response.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> So it justifies using force against people not breaking the law on their own property? Where is the line, or are we going to keep moving it?


It's pretty hard for me to word this without sounding like a dick since this is just words on a page.  So bear with me.

Tuesday: Protests in Minneapolis. 
Wednesday Thru Saturday: Riots.  Buildings burning.  Business owners who attempt to protect their businesses have been assaulted and battered.

People are being killed for defending their property in more than a few cities. So what are we to do now? Let it continue?

As far as all these bail funds?  These judges better not be granting bail for a hot minute.



J. said:


> Thanks for the context, sounds a lot like AFG. My issue is, police are not the military, and I am worried about the outcome of outfitting them like the military, giving them military style missions, but none of the training and mental conditioning. I think that will lead to even further issues.
> 
> I’m not going to pretend I know what the right answer is, but I don’t believe this is it. Their force shown here is only going to increase their opposition.



IRT arming police officers with AR-15s and SWAT with armored vehicles, well, when the enemy is heavily armed and well resourced gangs that stuff is here to stay.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> In my opinion, the police do not get to write my story when it come to my constitutionally protected freedoms. Riot or not, my property, unarmed, standing on my front porch, this is the wrong response.



Go express your concerns at the next protest, riot. That's what they're all about at this point, yes?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> In my opinion, the police do not get to write my story when it come to my constitutionally protected freedoms. Riot or not, my property, unarmed, standing on my front porch, this is the wrong response.


And 'sometimes' you have to read the room.  If I lived in those neighborhoods I would 100% be sitting on my front porch, AR in reach.  

But...I'd also be self aware enough to know that after the shit those cops and guard-members have taken the past 4 nights, if they said, "get the fuck in the house", I'm "getting the fuck in the house".


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's pretty hard for me to word this without sounding like a dick since this is just words on a page.  So bear with me.
> 
> Tuesday: Protests in Minneapolis.
> Wednesday Thru Saturday: Riots.  Buildings burning.  Business owners who attempt to protect their businesses have been assaulted and battered.
> ...



You don’t sound like a dick at all brother. Tensions are high, the violence and destruction has to stop. I want it to stop.

In this particular video, I just don’t see how this helps that goal. I think it’s creating more disdain towards LEO and I personally can’t convince myself to see it justifiably. That’s just my take, I wouldn’t say it here on SS if I wasn’t interested in seeing the other side.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> And 'sometimes' you have to read the room.  If I lived in those neighborhoods I would 100% be sitting on my front porch, AR in reach.
> 
> But...I'd also be self aware enough to know that after the shit those cops and guard-members have taken the past 4 nights, if they said, "get the fuck in the house", I'm "getting the fuck in the house".



I'd like to second this. And if we're comparing gun freedoms to the ability to stand on your porch because it's your constituional right following a lockdown over a city that just lost over $30 million on property damage, sure. Sounds reasonable. In case anyone is wondering why the cops are taking a hard stance against those freedoms to be an asshole, see Spoiler...



Spoiler: Spoiler



*In Minneapolis*
• *1Life CBD*, 1610 W Lake St: Door smashed
• *365 Nicollet*, 365 Nicollet Mall: Substantial graffiti
• *4Marq*, 400 Marquette Ave S: Smashed windows and graffiti
• *7 Mile Fashion*, 2116 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *7-Sigma, Inc.*, 2843 26th Ave S: Destroyed by fire
• *ACE Cash Express*, 2701 E Lake St: Significant fire damage
• *Ace Hardware*, 2737 Hennepin Ave: Property damage
• *Addis Ababa*, 2713 E Lake St: Significant fire damage
• *Aldi*, 2929 27th Ave S: Extensively looted
• *Anthony's Pipe & Cigar Lounge*, 907 W Lake St: Heavily looted
• *Apple Uptown*, 3018 Hennepin Ave: Glass broken, looting
• *Arby's*, 3000 Snelling Ave: Burned to the ground
• *AT&T*, 1433 W Lake St: Broken windows, property damage
• *Atlas Staffing*, 102 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *Auto Zone*, 2610 E Lake St: Building burned to the ground
• *Banadir Pharmacy*, 1 W Lake St: Looting and property damage
• *Birchwood Cafe*, 3311 E 25th St: Property damage
• *BMO Harris Bank*, 320 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Bondesque*, 707 W Lake St: Windows apparently all smashed, boarded up by Thursday evening
• *Boost Mobile*, 1109 W Broadway Ave: Property damage
• *Briva Health*, 2211 E Lake St: Window smashed
• *Broadway Liquor Outlet*, 2220 W Broadway Ave: Looting, property damage
• *Buzz Mart*, 6 N 5th St: Property damage



• *Cadillac Pawn & Jewelry*, 1538 E Lake St: Significant damage, looting
• *Cal Surf*, 1715 W Lake St: Window smashed
• *Car-X Tire & Auto*, 3021 E Lake St: Property damage
• *CB2*, 3045 Hennepin Ave: Property damage, broken windows
• *Cedar Child Care Center*, 3011 Cedar Ave S: Property damage
• *CFSC New Money Express*, 108 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *Chicago-Lake Liquor*, 825 E Lake St: Vandals broke in and looted store
• *Citi Trends*, 2106 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *Cost Cutters*, 3003 Nicollet Ave: Water damage
• *Cub Foods*, 2850 26th Ave S: Looting and store damage
• *CVS*, 1010 W Lake St: Several shattered windows, doors
• *Dairy Queen*, 4400 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Dogwood Coffee*, 3001 Hennepin Ave S: Window smashed
• *Dollar General*, 2136 E Lake St: Extensive fire damage
• *Dollar Tree*, 2858 26th Ave S: Heavily looted
• *Dollar Tree*, 3001 Nicollet Ave: Extensive property damage
• *Domino's Pizza*, 2801 26th Ave S: Property damage
• *DTLR*, 509 W Broadway Ave: Property damage, looting
• *Du Nord Craft Spirits*, 2610 E 32nd St: Fire and "substantial" water damage



• *East Lake Library*, 2727 E Lake St: Heavily damaged by smoke and water
• *East Lake Liquor*, 3916 E Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *El Chuchi Market*, 3201 Cedar Ave: Looting
• *El Nuevo Miramar*, 501 E Lake St: Looting
• *El Nuevo Rodeo*, 2709 E Lake St: Significant fire damage
• *El Sabor Chuchi*, 717 E Lake St: Looting
• *Electra Tune Tire & Auto*, 4522 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Elevated Beer Wine & Spirits*, 4135 Hiawatha Ave: Property damage, looting
• *Extreme Noise Records*, 407 W Lake St: Smashed windows, looting, other property damage
• *Fade Factory*, 2415 W Broadway Ave: Fire reported
• *Familia Skateshop*, 2833 Hennepin Ave: Windows smashed
• *Family Beauty Supply*, 1014 W Broadway Ave: Extensive property damage, broken windows
• *Family Dollar*, 1010 E Lake St: Heavy fire damage
• *Family Dollar*, 906 W Broadway Ave: Property damage
• *Family Dollar*, 3536 Nicollet Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Firefly Credit Union*, 2535 27th Ave S: Property damage, looting
• *Five Guys*, 2300 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage
• *Foot Locker*, 806 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *Frattalone's Ace Hardware*, 3915 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Freewheel Bike Midtown Bike Center*, 2834 10th Ave S: Property damage, windows smashed


• *Gandhi Mahal Restaurant*, 3009 27th Ave S: Significant fire damage
• *Giant Wash Coin Laundry*, 914 W Broadway Ave: Broken windows, property damage
• *Giordano's Pizza*, 2700 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage
• *GM Tobacco*, 2619 E Lake St: Fire damage
• *H&M*, 3001 Hennepin Ave: Windows busted
• *Hamdi Restaurant*, 818 E Lake St: Property damage and graffiti
• *HD Laundry*, 2112 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *Hennepin County WIC Office*, 2215 E Lake St: Windows smashed
• *Hennepin Healthcare East Lake Clinic*, 2700 E Lake St Suite 1100: Property damage
• *Hexagon Bar*, 2600 27th Ave S: Destroyed by fire
• *Hi Lake Liquors*, 2130 E Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *Hibachi Buffet*, 111 E Lake St: Smashed windows, other property damage
• *Holiday*, 2448 Hennepin Ave: Property damage
• *Holiday*, 2322 N Washington Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Holiday*, 4601 Hiawatha Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Home Choice*, 2208 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *Honda Town*, 4215 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Hook Fish & Chicken*, 221 W Lake St: Windows smashed
• *Hudson Hardware*, 2900 E 42nd St: Building damage and looting


• *ICC Wireless*, 704 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Indulge and Bloom*, 3001 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage
• *Infinite Vapor*, 1400 Lagoon Ave S: Door smashed, apparent theft
• *Ingebretsen's Scandinavian Gifts*, 1601 E Lake St: Broken window, possible interior damage, looted
• *Integrated Staffing Solutions*, 2703 E Lake St: Significant fire damage
• *International Bazaar*, 301 E Lake St: Looted
• *Iron Door Pub*, 3001 Lyndale Ave S: Fire damage, water damage
• *J Klips*, 2130 E Lake St: Property damage
• *John Fluevog*, 2900 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage, broken windows
• *K-Mart*, 10 W Lake St: Property damage
• *Ken & Norm's Liquor*, 4801 Chicago Ave: Large window smashed out
• *Knights Chamber Clothiers*, 3001 Hennepin Ave: Looting, property damage
• *LA Skin Care and Spa*, 115 E Lake St: Extensive damage, water damage
• *Laddatude Tattoo*, 3004 27th Ave S: Fire damage
• *Laundromax*, 3225 E Lake St: Window smashed
• *Little Caesars*, 2218 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *Little Caesars*, 3015 Nicollet Ave: Water damage
• *LV's Barbershop*, 3006 27th Ave S: Fire damage
• *Lyndale Tobacco*, 722 W. Lake St.: Extensive looting, property damage


• *Marathon Gas*, 2801 Lyndale Ave S: Windows smashed
• *MartinPatrick3*, 212 3rd Ave N: Smashed windows, broken glass doors, looting
• *Master Collision*, 224 W Lake St: Smashed windows, other property damage
• *maX it PAWN*, 815 Cedar Ave S: Extensive fire damage
• *McDonald's*, 3110 E Lake St: Graffiti, some broken glass
• *Merwin Liquors*, 700 W Broadway Ave: Property damage. Closed "indefinitely"
• *Metro by T-Mobile*, 2815 E Lake St: Extensive fire damage
• *Metro PCS*, 2102 W Broadway Ave: Property damage
• *Metro PCS*, 925 W Broadway Ave: Property damage
• *Metro PCS*, 305 W Lake St: Broken windows
• *Midori's Floating World Cafe*, 2629 E Lake St: Fire damage
• *Midtown Corner low-income housing*, 2100 E Lake St: Major fire
• *Midtown Global Market*, 920 E Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *Midtown Market*, 2850 26th Ave S: Windows shattered
• *Minneapolis Central Library*, 300 Nicollet Mall: Windows smashed, graffiti
• *Minnehaha Lake Wine & Spirits*, 2613 E Lake St: Burned to the ground
• *Minnesota Transitions Charter School*, 2872 26th Ave S Door B: Looted, extensive water damage
• *MoneyGram*, 2701 E Lake St: Significant fire damage
• *MPD Third Precinct*, 3000 Minnehaha Ave: Burned to the ground
• *Next Day Animations*, 615 W Lake St: Windows/door smashed, other property damage
• *Olympic Cafe*, 2117 W Broadway Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *O'Reilly Auto Parts*, 1625 W Broadway Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *O'Reilly Auto Parts*, 710 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *O'Reilly Auto Parts*, 3536 Nicollet Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Office Depot*, 3001 Nicollet Ave: Smashed doors, windows, looting
• *Origami Restaurant*, 1354 Lagoon Ave: Door smashed


• *Palm Beach Tan*, 1011 W Lake St: Windows apparently smashed, boarded up
• *Papa Murphy's*, 4644 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Paper Source*, 3048 Hennepin Ave S: Graffiti, door broken
• *Parkway Pizza*, 4359 Minnehaha Ave: Door smashed, TV ripped from wall, tools stolen
• *Penzeys Spices*, 3028 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage, looting
• *Phenom*, 115 N Washington Ave: Broken window, heavy looting
• *Pineda Tacos*, 2130 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Planet Fitness*, 2852 26th Ave S: Property damage
• *Plaza Mexico*, 417 E Lake St: Looted
• *Popeyes*, 1301 W Broadway Ave: Window smashed
• *Popeyes*, 310 W Lake St: Windows smashed, vandalized
• *Precision Tune Auto Care*, 3232 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Quality Tobacco*, 112 E Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *Ragstock*, 1433 W Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *Ribnick Luxury Outerwear*, 224 N 1st St: Looting
• *Rongo's Auto Service*, 3548 Nicollet Ave: Fire damage
• *Running Room*, 1433 W Lake St: Property damage
• *Sabri Commons*, 207 E Lake St: Looting
• *Sabri Properties*, 315 E Lake St: Fire damage, looting
• *Sabri Properties*, 347 E Lake St: Looting
• *Sally Beauty*, 2740 Minnehaha Ave #120: Heavily looted
• *Salon Levante*, 3040 Hennepin Ave: Property damage
• *Sanaag Restaurant and Coffee*, 3007 Cedar Ave: Looting, property damage
• *Schooner Tavern*, 2901 27th Ave S: Looting, broken windows, modest fire and water damage
• *See Eyewear*, 3032 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage


• *Sew Simple*, 2424 Nicollet Ave: Property damage
• *Seward Community Co-op*, 2823 E Franklin Ave: Window smashed
• *Seward Pharmacy*, 2209 E Lake St: Windows smashed
• *Shell*, 640 E Lake St: Fire reported
• *Skol Liquors*, 2500 27th Ave S: Property damage, looting
• *Smokeless*, 514 E Hennepin Ave: Vandalized
• *Soderberg's Floral & Gift*, 3305 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Sol Travel*, 224 W Lake St: Looting, fire damage, water damage
• *Speedway*, 4320 E Lake St: Property damage
• *Speedway*, 801 W Lake St: Destroyed by fire
• *Speedway *, 300 Broadway St NE: Door smashed, looting
• *Sprint Store*, 3009 Nicollet Ave: Looting, property damage
• *Stop N Shop*, 3050 1st Ave S: Fire reported
• *Studiiyo23*, 2319 Hennepin Ave S: Property damage, looting
• *Target*, 2500 E Lake St: Looting, physical damage to store
• *Target*, 1650 New Brighton Blvd: Broken windows
• *Target*, 1300 W Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *Teppanyaki Grill and Supreme Buffet*, 2216 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *The Hook and Ladder Theater & Lounge*, 3010 Minnehaha Ave: Graffiti, damage from fire sprinklers
• *The Hub Bike Co-op*, 3016 Minnehaha Ave: Property damage
• *The Nic on Fifth*, 465 Nicollet Mall: Graffiti
• *Thurston’s Jewelers*, 705 W Lake St: Break-in
• *Tibet Store*, 2835 Hennepin Ave: Windows smashed
• *Timberland*, 3001 Hennepin Ave: Property damage, looting
• *Tires Plus*, 3421 E Lake St: Property damage


• *Tobacco shop*, 2835 Hennepin Ave: Window smashed
• *Total Wireless*, 2130 E Lake St, Suite A: Fire and property damage
• *Town Talk Diner & Gastropub*, 2707 E Lake St: Damage to building
• *Trattoria Mucci*, 901 W Lake St: Break-in
• *Tweak The Glam Studio*, 611 W Lake St: Fire damage
• *U.S. Bank*, 2800 E Lake St: Property damage, graffiti
• *U.S. Bank*, 1030 W Broadway Ave: Looting
• *U.S. Post Office*, 110 E 31st St: Destroyed by fire
• *Uncle Hugo's and Uncle Edgar's bookstores*, 2864 Chicago Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Uptown Pawn*, 301 W Lake St: Windows smashed, property damage, heavy looting
• *Uptown Theater*, 2906 Hennepin Ave: Broken windows
• *Urban Forage Winery and Cider House*, 3016 E Lake St: Property damage, looting
• *Urban Outfitters*, 3006 Hennepin Ave: Window smashed
• *Valerie’s Carcineria*, 3149 Nicollet Ave: Merchandise stolen
• *Walgreens*, 3121 E Lake St: All windows smashed, extensive looting
• *Walgreens*, 4547 Hiawatha Ave: Windows smashed, some looting
• *Walgreens*, 4323 Chicago Ave: Windows, door damaged, security in place at 2:30pm Thursday
• *Walgreens*, 627 W Broadway Ave: Fire damage
• *Walgreens*, 200 W Lake St: Many broken windows, entry smashed, apparent looting, extensive fire damage
• *Walgreens*, 2650 Hennepin Ave: Property damage
• *Wells Fargo*, 2218 E Lake St: Fire and property damage
• *Wells Fargo*, 3030 Nicollet Ave: Destroyed by fire
• *Wendy's*, 2931 26th Ave S: Looted, fire damage
• *Whiskey Junction*, 901 Cedar Ave: Looting, broken windows
• *White Castle*, 100 W Lake St: All windows broken, property damage
• *Xcel Energy*, 404 Nicollet Mall: Smashed windows and graffiti
• *Yuan Yuan*, 1010 W Broadway Ave: Broken windows, property damage
• *Zipps Liquors*, 2618 E Franklin Ave: Windows/doors broken, looting


*In St. Paul*
• *7-Mile Sportwear*, 590 University Ave W: Property damage, looting
• *America's Best Contacts & Eyeglasses*, 1360 University Ave W: Graffiti, property damage
• *Ananya Dance Theatre*, 1197 University Ave W: Property damage
• *Big Top Liquors*, 1544 University Ave W: Property damage
• *Bole Ethiopian Restaurant*, 490 N Syndicate St: Fire, property damage
• *Boost Mobile*, 1499 University Ave W: Fire damage
• *BP*, 1347 University Ave W: Property damage
• *Cub Foods*, 2197 Old Hudson Rd: Looting
• *CVS*, 1300 University Ave W: Store damage
• *Discount Tire*, 1350 University Ave W: Property damage
• *DTLR*, 1515 University Ave W: Looting
• *Enterprise Rent-A-Car*, 1161 University Ave W: Fire damage
• *Fire 'N' Ice Chicken*, 600 University Ave W: Property damage
• *First Grand Avenue Liquor Store*, 918 Grand Ave: Property damage, looting


• *Foot Locker*, 1484 University Ave W: Extensive fire damage
• *Furniture Barn*, 1389 University Ave W: Heavily looted
• *GameStop*, 1484 University Ave W: Substantial fire damage, looting
• *Golden Treasures jewelry store*, 805 Grand Ave: Looting, property damage
• *Goodwill*, 1239 University Ave W: Windows smashed
• *Great Clips*, 1474 University Ave W: Extensive fire damage
• *Great Health Nutrition*, 1360 University Ave W: Looting
• *Leeann Chin*, 1360 University Ave W: Property damage
• *Liquor Barrel*, 665 7th St W: Looting, property damage
• *Lloyd's Pharmacy*, 720 Snelling Ave N: Heavy fire damage
• *Lululemon*, 870 Grand Ave: Looting, property damage
• *maX it PAWN*, 1519 University Ave W: Looting
• *Midway Tobacco Outlet Plus*, 1418 University Ave W: Property damage
• *NAPA Auto Parts*, 1271 University Ave W: Heavy fire damage


• *Noodles and Co.*, 470 Hamline Ave N: Windows smashed
• *O'Reilly Auto Parts*, 448 Lexington Pkwy N: Fire, property damage
• *Peking Garden*, 1488 University Ave W: Property damage
• *R.F. Moeller Jeweler*, 2065 Ford Pkwy: Looting
• *Speedway*, 970 University Ave W: Fire, property damage
• *Speedway*, 2051 Grand Ave: Extensive fire damage
• *Sports Dome*, 1505 University Ave W: Fire damage, looting
• *Springboard for the Arts*, 262 University Ave W: Fire and property damage
• *Sprint Store*, 1360 University Ave N: Property damage, looting
• *T-Mobile*, 878 Arcade St: Property damage, looting
• *Target*, 1300 University Ave W: Some looting
• *TCF Bank*, 459 Lexington Pkwy N: Property damage
• *The Fixery*, 760 Cleveland Ave S: Property damage
• *The Vitamin Shoppe*, 472 Hamline Ave N: Property damage
• *TJ Maxx*, 1410 University Ave W: Looting
• *To New York*, 1486 University Ave W: Property damage
• *Turf Club*, 1601 University Ave W: Looted, flooded by sprinkler damage
• *Verizon *, 474 Hamline Ave N: Property damage
• *Walgreens*, 1585 Randolph Ave: Fire, property damage


*In Roseville*
• *Pawn America*, 1715 Rice St: Police received reports of looting
• *Rosedale Center*, 1595 MN-36: Police received reports of looting
• *Target*, 1515 County B Rd W: Police received reports of looting
• *Walmart*, 1960 Twin Lakes Pkwy: Police received reports of looting


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Go express your concerns at the next protest, riot. That's what they're all about at this point, yes?



1. They’ve transcended protests and almost certainly guarantee violence at this point. The cause and hearthbreak of the root has been lost in the noise of criminal opportunism and hate. That’s a tragedy.

2. I’m not defending these people I mentioned above, I’m stating that my take on this exact video/situation is wrong. I sometimes agree with the police, I sometimes don’t. I don’t pick a permanent side, I just state what I believe.


----------



## Dame (May 31, 2020)

Caught on video paying people, providing material to destroy property, and directing the violence.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266893122564509701


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

I agree with @J. 

When does personal freedom end and begin at this point. If this was about guns, and they were passing down laws because 'the room was bad'. How many of you here would be ok with doing that? 

Do I understand where those Guard and LEOs are coming from? Yeah. But that doesn't mean you can just attack me on my private property when I'm not doing anything illegal.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Dame said:


> Caught on video paying people, providing material to destroy property, and directing the violence.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266893122564509701



I'm seeing lots of stuff on social media about "white dudes keep making it worse", and this video is more examples of that.

ANTIFA, Anarchists, White Supremacists, and Boog Boys are all out smashing shit to try and make the protests turn into riots and the riots turn into bloodbaths so Americans will finally "rise up for (goals) of the group".


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Ok, so I just counted, they were ordered to get inside 9 times.  They did not.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Ok, so I just counted, they were ordered to get inside 9 times.  They did not.



What law were they breaking?


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> What law were they breaking?



curfew?


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> curfew?



Every report and official release in regards to curfew, only restricts you to your home. No mention of being forced indoors.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Living here, I have absolutely no issues with the police response with paintball.  Context is key.

We've had 4 days of serious unrest.  There has been no law enforcement presence up until yesterday.  Curfew was implemented and finally being enforced after huge community outcry.  They live an area that was one of the epicenters for unrest. They were warned multiple times in no uncertain terms to get inside.  Instead, they choose to stand there with their cellphones shooting video.

So, they got hit by a paintball.  It served it's purpose and they'll be just fine.  Guess what, this show of force finally was effective in helping restore order last night.  Posting the video is a bit of a baiting move.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Living here, I have absolutely no issues with the paintball thing.  Context is key.
> 
> We've had 4 days if serious unrest.  There has been no law enforcement presence up until yesterday.  Curfew was implemented and finally being enforced after huge community outcry.  They live an area that was one of the epicenters for unrest. They were warned multiple times in no uncertain terms to get inside.  Instead, they choose to stand there with their cellphones shooting video.
> 
> So, they got hit by a paintball.  It served ot's purpose and they'll be just fine.  Guess what, this show of force finally was effective in helping restore order last night.  Posting the video is a bit of a baiting move.



I still fail to see in what way these people on their property were inciting disorder or breaking the law. I in no way am defending those who are actually destroying the community but there was no reason for force in my opinion. 

The video isn’t baiting, it’s documention of an event that took place and it’s their constitutional freedom to share what occurred.


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> The video isn’t baiting, it’s documention of an event that took place and it’s their constitutional freedom to share what occurred.



You mean it can't be both?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Y'all in here defending curfews and police crackdowns in the name of "community" but called most of the stay at home orders unconstitutional and infringing on rights.

So which is it? 

Dont pick and choose which government suppression is ok and which one isn't. 
Either be about it or not.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> You mean it can't be both?



It could, but in this video from start to finish they do not attack the police or guard physically or verbally in any way. They ignore an unlawful order while recording from private property. They shared it online which I’m glad they did because not everything the police do is right, not everything the citizen does is right, but if I was one of the people in that video I would share it as well.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> I still fail to see in what way these people on their property were inciting disorder or breaking the law. I in no way am defending those who are actually destroying the community but there was no reason for force in my opinion.
> 
> The video isn’t baiting, it’s documention of an event that took place and it’s their constitutional freedom to share what occurred.


I can't help you out if you don't get it.  Watch news clips or review this thread the past several days.  

There was a strong outcry for law enforcement to take a dominant position to restore order.  They needed to and they finally did.  Now, they want to criticize it? Sorry, but fuck off.

These people wanted to stand around and take video, like many others.  They're part of the problem at this point.  They were given a direct order to go inside multiple times. They thought it was a joke like the previous 4 nights, so they ignored it.  Guess, what our patience for the bullshit has passed.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Y'all in here defending curfews and police crackdowns in the name of "community" but called most of the stay at home orders unconstitutional and infringing on rights.
> 
> So which is it?
> 
> ...


Apples and oranges, brother, and you know it.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Apples and oranges, brother, and you know it.


 Explain to me why.

Both were done in the name of "community safety".

One is just something you can see.

We should never allow our rights to go out the window, simply because we agree/disagree with the methods by which that happens.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Y'all in here defending curfews and police crackdowns in the name of "community" but called most of the stay at home orders unconstitutional and infringing on rights.
> 
> So which is it?
> 
> ...



Okay. Let the unrest continue.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Y'all in here defending curfews and police crackdowns in the name of "community" but called most of the stay at home orders unconstitutional and infringing on rights.
> 
> So which is it?
> 
> ...



Not sure how these are not mutually exclusive. Unless you're good with your city burning next?


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I can't help you out if you don't get it.  Watch news clips or review this thread the past several days.
> 
> There was a strong outcry for law enforcement to take a dominant position to restore order.  They needed to and they finally did.  Now, they want to criticize it? Sorry, but fuck off.
> 
> These people wanted to stand around and take video, like many others.  They're part of the problem at this point.  They were given a direct order to go inside multiple times. They thought it was a joke like the previous 4 nights, so they ignored it.  Guess, what our patience for the bullshit has passed.



Where in the video did they criticize the police?


Blizzard said:


> I can't help you out if you don't get it.  Watch news clips or review this thread the past several days.
> 
> There was a strong outcry for law enforcement to take a dominant position to restore order.  They needed to and they finally did.  Now, they want to criticize it? Sorry, but fuck off.
> 
> These people wanted to stand around and take video, like many others.  They're part of the problem at this point.  They were given a direct order to go inside multiple times. They thought it was a joke like the previous 4 nights, so they ignored it.  Guess, what our patience for the bullshit has passed.



Where in this video, what I am specifically talking about, did they criticize the police or guard?

In what America are we where we can call for action but if it is implemented wrongly at times we can’t criticize it?

How is standing around on private property following the curfew and recording part of the problem?

I’ve read this entire thread, I am well up to date on what’s occurring, I have people in my hometown who are threatened right now by violent riots in places I grew up. I get it, I don’t need your help “getting it”. 

I asked if someone could defend this specific action, and I have yet to see that. I’m willing to hear out anyone, but I look at this video and immediately think of how disproportionate force is what got us here in the first place.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Cop in Cincinnati got shot. His helmet saved his life.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

And full clarity;

I make these comments as someone who fully understands that our rights are not unlimited, and that we need to have the ability to regulate actions.

but if you allow overreach because you agree with it in that instance you've allowed overreach in all instances.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Cop in Cincinnati got shot. His helmet saved his life.



I hope he’s alright, is he injured from BFD or did he come out clean?


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Press conference now. Locking down the city at 9 pm 52 neighborhoods. Anyone outside will be arrested. Talking about bringing in the NG.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> I hope he’s alright, is he injured from BFD or did he come out clean?


Walked away unhurt. Went through his riot shield first


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> And full clarity;
> 
> I make these comments as someone who fully understands that our rights are not unlimited, and that we need to have the ability to regulate actions.
> 
> but if you allow overreach because you agree with it in that instance you've allowed overreach in all instances.



This is where we differ and I think many others would agree. In this particular instance, not the gun debate, not COVID-19, we're talking about about restoring order in a country that is losing hope. It's a debate that's had when the smoke clears. Right now, we need someone on the wall that's willing to make the call.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> This is where we differ and I think many others would agree. In this particular instance, not the gun debate, not COVID-19, we're talking about about restoring order in a country that is losing hope. It's a debate that's had when the smoke clears. Right now, we need someone on the wall that's willing to make the call.



I'm talking specifically about the video of police shooting people with paint/rubber rounds for standing on their porch (which the order allowed) or stuff like CSPD last night closing off a road for protestors (who had a permit) and then declaring it and unlawful protest and gassing them before even finishing with the order to disperse.

"Restoring order" should never become leeway for trampling all rights. Because "restoring order" or "protecting the community" are pretty broad categories.

I'm for getting things back to normal, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to call out things that seem like powergrabs.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Dear influencer, get out of my fucking city.  Rot in hell you piece of shit.

Jake Paul in the Middle of Looting at Arizona Mall


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dear influencer, get out of my fucking city.  Rot in hell you piece of shit.
> 
> Jake Paul in the Middle of Looting at Arizona Mall


Well, his brother filmed that Suicide victim in Japan. 
Guess Jake is trying to one up him and film the next store owner/looter getting killed?

Fucking trash


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

Open question to everyone here, if it's ok to declare our constitutional rights null and void. Then when is it?

What happened to slippery slopes?


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dear influencer, get out of my fucking city.  Rot in hell you piece of shit.
> 
> Jake Paul in the Middle of Looting at Arizona Mall



The Paul Brothers are a cancer upon society, if you start going into everything they do for influence and ad revenue with kids it becomes sickening.


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Open question to everyone here, if it's ok to declare our constitutional rights null and void. Then when is it?
> 
> What happened to slippery slopes?




To expand, when 9/11 happened we agreed to the Patriot Act hand over fist, even though once emotions cooled we realized immediately how wrong we were to do that. 

We have a history of seeing a short term problem and coming up with a nuclear option to fix it. Without thinking about the long term and secondary effects of our choices.

I agree something needs to be done right now, but what is happening to people who have been following the law isn't it. I don't know what the answer is to the problem, but I don't feel this is the right way.


----------



## DA SWO (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Can someone here defend this? This is disgusting.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gts8fh


Rubber bullets, enforcing a curfew.
Worked too!


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

And now this.  About time Antifa made the list.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267129644228247552


----------



## DA SWO (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> On your own property, filming legally, not breaking the law. I don’t care if a cop says get inside, there is no cause for force. Paint rounds is irrelevant, still a probability of bodily harm.
> 
> I dont think all cops are bad, but how much further are we gonna go defending, defending, defending them until we admit they have a systemic issue. I’m not implying they are all bad, or corrupt. I do believe there is a training issue, I think there is a mentality issue, and when a cop on your street says “Light me’ up” at your home while on your front porch, it leads me to believe there’s an ego issue.


Curfew means inside, so they were actually breaking a law.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Curfew means inside, so they were actually breaking a law.



Can you show me where you’re getting that info from. Like the legalities of the matter? I’m interested.


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=909339359492520


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Well, a colleague of HH6 sent a photo of her living room window.  She lives in a lower end apartment complex near the government core (she normally walks to work), brick went through her front window last night.  These dickheads are now attacking homes and apartments of the very people they claim to be protesting for.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And now this.  About time Antifa made the list.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267129644228247552



So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?

If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.

I say this because, even though I'm not a Trump guy, if he doesn't make this seem apolitical it will blow up in his face. 
Designating ANTIFA alone is going to open the floodgates of prime "whataboutism" and further reinforce the "Trump supports white hate groups" narrative.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, a colleague of HH6 sent a photo of her living room window.  She lives in a lower end apartment complex near the government core (she normally walks to work), brick went through her front window last night.  These dickheads are now attacking homes and apartments of the very people they claim to be protesting for.



Colleague went out to join the clean up.  The PHX PD Wives network is out cleaning up DT PHX.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?
> 
> If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.
> 
> ...


How is that when most of the ANTIFA movement is white?


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?
> 
> If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.
> 
> ...



There was already a white supremist group declared the same. 

U.S. designates Russian white supremacist group as terrorist organization

And the list is probably here some where. 

Terrorist Designations and State Sponsors of Terrorism - United States Department of State


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How is that when most of the ANTIFA movement is white?



I used the phrase "white hate groups" because that is usually all encompassing for both White Nationalist groups and White Supremacy groups (slight distinctions between both).



RackMaster said:


> There was already a white supremist group declared the same.
> 
> U.S. designates Russian white supremacist group as terrorist organization
> 
> ...



I'm referring specifically to domestic ones. We have a whole smorgasbord of ideologies designated as foreign terror organizations.


----------



## racing_kitty (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?
> 
> If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.
> 
> ...


IIRC, ALF and ELF already are listed as domestic terrorist orgs, and have been for a hot damn minute. Try again...


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I can't find a list of designated domestic terrorist organizations. Is there one, or would this be the first?
> 
> If we're starting one, migh as well just chuck all the other "terroristic" groups (Aryan Nation, ALF, KKK, etc) on there as well.
> 
> ...



You are applying your political ideology framework to this. This is not usually helpful and a huge oversimplification. Once you start applying left/right, democrat/republican, it starts to get easy to demonize one side, because that's the enemy, and not objectively look at your own. If you don't believe the Aryan Nation, ALF/ELF, and the KKK don't get their fair share of federal scrutiny; maybe there is an argument to be made there. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of active investigations to anything they do that is beyond an ideological view. People can still belong to groups with very unpopular opinions, yet never act upon them.

But who knows.. Viva la raza!


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> IIRC, ALF and ELF already are listed as domestic terrorist orgs, and have been for a hot damn minute. Try again...



That's what I'm asking though; is there actually an official designated list of domestic terrorist organizations?
Because all those groups would commonly be considered terrorist organizations, but I don't know if it's "officially" been done before. I just haven't been able to find it.

@Florida173 other than my comment about how I feel this could backfire, I'm trying to look at this apolitically. What I'm getting at is (as best I can find) it has been policy to treat these groups how your last sentence was. Individuals get charged, not groups.



Florida173 said:


> People can still belong to groups with very unpopular opinions, yet never act upon them



I'm not a fan of ANTIFA/Blac-bloc/other violent leftist groups, and I understand fully how this designation could apply to them.

But as I've been saying repeatedly, I'm very cautious about allowing something to happen one group because we agree with it, because it always seems to backfire on us as a population.

ETA: Seems like DHS keeps a "domestic watchlist", but that's really all I'm finding so far.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'm referring specifically to domestic ones. We have a whole smorgasbord of ideologies designated as foreign terror organizations.


Legally-speaking, there is no “domestic terrorism” designation. I don’t really know what designating Antifa a terrorist org does, other than throw a bone to the base.

This article talks about possible avenues for enacting that kind of legislation:A Road Map for Congress to Address Domestic Terrorism


----------



## BloodStripe (May 31, 2020)

This shit right here is fucking pathetic. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/WWIIMemorialFriends/photos/a.466699133354637/3393264074031447


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Legally-speaking, there is no “domestic terrorism” designation. I don’t really know what designating Antifa a terrorist org does, other than throw a bone to the base.
> 
> This article talks about possible avenues for enacting that kind of legislation:A Road Map for Congress to Address Domestic Terrorism



Does this list have to be public? Couldn't i just play a shell game with names every time my group gets named?


----------



## Bypass (May 31, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> This shit right here is fucking pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This shit is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Bypass (May 31, 2020)

On a side note do you guys remember when returning veterans were labeled possible domestic terrorists?


----------



## DA SWO (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Can you show me where you’re getting that info from. Like the legalities of the matter? I’m interested.


Chapter 12, section 12 of the MN laws is a good place to start.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Chapter 12, section 12 of the MN laws is a good place to start.



Thanks, I’ll read it now.

While I do, let me ask you how you can justify what occurred in that video as proportional force? Isn’t disproportionate force exactly how this all started? I’m interested to see where you’re coming from on this as your initial response to the video seems pretty apathetic to fellow Americans being assaulted unjustly by law enforcement.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Here’s the info I have been looking for if anyone is interested. It seems they’re threatening misdemeanor and arrest to breaking the curfew. Fair enough.

Still haven’t gotten a solid explanation as to how assaulting the citizens on their porch is justified. Further up on this MN FAQ page it states law enforcement are supposed to inquire on why you are breaking these rules.

Me having met Americans before, I can more than assume most don’t know this exact rule. A police officer telling me to go inside then shooting at me with a less lethal doesn’t explain anything. At my home, on my property, telling me what to do smells grossly unconstitutional.

https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx

*Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.? *


Yes. You can be on your porch, yard, patio, etc., but if a law enforcement officer or other public safety official asks you to go inside, or take any other action, you must follow the instruction.


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Thanks, I’ll read it now.
> 
> While I do, let me ask you how you can justify what occurred in that video as proportional force? Isn’t disproportionate force exactly how this all started? I’m interested to see where you’re coming from on this as your initial response to the video seems pretty apathetic to fellow Americans being assaulted unjustly by law enforcement.



What would have been your proportional force choice? City wide order didn't do it, multiple verbal warnings from the street didn't do it, and then a paintball round was fired. Should they have been arrested instead?


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> What would have been your proportional force choice? City wide order didn't do it, multiple verbal warnings from the street didn't do it, and then a paintball round was fired. Should they have been arrested instead?



Seeing how there’s approx 50 officers on the street what would be the harm in making non-threatening contact with the residents and explain the rule. If they fail to comply then sure, threaten arrest, arrest, I don’t care. Saying go inside a bunch then shooting less lethal is not proportional to people recording in mostly awe and not protest.


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Seeing how there’s approx 50 officers on the street what would be the harm in making non-threatening contact with the residents and explain the rule. If they fail to comply then sure, threaten arrest, arrest, I don’t care. Saying go inside a bunch then shooting less lethal is not proportional to people recording in mostly awe and not protest.



I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.



I agree that the sight alone should spell out loud “Go away” but this is America we are talking about. Some handholding and explaining might prevent acts like this.

I’m not demonizing the police, I agree they’re patience right now is thin and their emotions are running high, but putting on a badge to me, is the same as when I took an oath to protect Americans. My behavior will be above reproach. I think acts like them only hurt the image they are trying to create.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I typically think that police in riot gear are a hammer, and everyone is a nail to them. Easier to comply and voice grievances to a more willing participants.



You put more boots to throats and it will only add fuel to the fire.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)




----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Here’s what you didn’t see. In Louisville during the protest last night, one officer got separated from the others and was threatened by the crowd. A group of black people circled and protected him.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> You put more boots to throats and it will only add fuel to the fire.



I've always felt that the group/person with the power is the one who needs to first attempt to de-escelate the situation. I think that's why you can look at places like Flint and see they came out (relatively) unscathed, due to the actions of people like their County Sheriff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267107339833925634


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

@Polar Bear In the same spirit of your post. There’s enough divide and hate in this country to fill up a million forums, and it does.

SS is above that, and the thoughtful discussion we have here I believe matters. Most of us have sacrificed for this nation and want nothing more than to see it prosper. There is so much good that is unseen and deserve our attention and focus.

I might have my opinion but I can unequivocally say I respect all of yours and take them to heart.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 31, 2020)

FPS Police Officer killed last night in Oakland....Rest in Peace Brother.

*Federal Officer Killed in Shooting Outside Oakland Courthouse

Officer Dave Underwood
*


----------



## Marauder06 (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> @Polar Bear In the same spirit of your post. There’s enough divide and hate in this country to fill up a million forums, and it does.
> 
> SS is above that, and the thoughtful discussion we have here I believe matters. Most of us have sacrificed for this nation and want nothing more than to see it prosper. There is so much good that is unseen and deserve our attention and focus.
> 
> I might have my option but I can unequivocally say I respect all of yours and take them to heart.



This is exactly the perspective our site, and our country, needs.  Thank you for posting this.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 31, 2020)

Domestic terrorism (Title 18, US Code):
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-chapter113B&edition=prelim


(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that—

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended—

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States;


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

Definitely questions need answered. 

Former NYPD commissioner: FBI needs to look into who is funding these riots and domestic terrorism


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Driving towards 3rd Prct. 
pics to follow.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 31, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Definitely questions need answered.
> 
> Former NYPD commissioner: FBI needs to look into who is funding these riots and domestic terrorism


Wrong questions to be asking.  A better question would be “What can departments do better to serve the community and prevent these occurrences in the future?”


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Wrong questions to be asking.  A better question would be “What can departments do better to serve the community and prevent these occurrences in the future?”



America has a habitual issue with experiencing crisis and focusing on the wrong thing.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 31, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Definitely questions need answered.
> 
> Former NYPD commissioner: FBI needs to look into who is funding these riots and domestic terrorism





Salt USMC said:


> Wrong questions to be asking.  A better question would be “What can departments do better to serve the community and prevent these occurrences in the future?”



Those two things are not mutually exclusive and should be worked in parallel.  However, the former is currently more urgent.


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Wrong questions to be asking.  A better question would be “What can departments do better to serve the community and prevent these occurrences in the future?”



Better question maybe at a local community level where they may be experiencing this, but why disparage the interest in a possible external funding of rioting?


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Those two things are not mutually exclusive and should be worked in parallel.  However, the former is currently more urgent.



They should be in parallel, but in a media sense they might not be. I hope once this ends that the media focuses on the roots and not the stems. That might be hopeful wishing on my part, but it is what this country needs to work on.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 31, 2020)

Every community is different, there isn't any magic flow chart. You can work for years and finally get a great relationship with the community, then one thing can ruin it...and you have to define what a community is.....many different factions make up a community...it's hard to make everyone happy.

There is no "magic bullet" so to speak....

It doesn't help when social media and the media itself get people into a frenzy....


----------



## J. (May 31, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Every community is different, there isn't any magic flow chart. You can work for years and finally get a great relationship with the community, then one thing can ruin it...and you have to define what a community is.....many different factions make up a community...it's hard to make everyone happy.
> 
> There is no "magic bullet" so to speak....
> 
> It doesn't help when social media and the media itself get people into a frenzy....



Reminds of the saying, “Respect takes years to earn and seconds to lose.”


----------



## Salt USMC (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Better question maybe at a local community level where they may be experiencing this, but why disparage the interest in a possible evergreens funding of rioting?


Because I can guarantee you that the latter will be ignored for the former.  What happens when the FBI finds out who coordinated these events?  They’re gonna pat themselves on the back and declare “Mission Accomplished”.  Nothing will have been learned, and the next time the country experiences mass protests in response to police brutality you’ll have Kerik asking “How much coordination does BLM have with ISIS?”


----------



## Florida173 (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Because I can guarantee you that the latter will be ignored for the former.  What happens when the FBI finds out who coordinated these events?  They’re gonna pat themselves on the back and declare “Mission Accomplished”.  Nothing will have been learned, and the next time the country experiences mass protests in response to police brutality you’ll have Kerik asking “How much coordination does BLM have with ISIS?”



I can't agree with your logic here. They are two entirely different issues. Both can be looked at through the federal and state levels.


----------



## SaintKP (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Because I can guarantee you that the latter will be ignored for the former.  What happens when the FBI finds out who coordinated these events?  They’re gonna pat themselves on the back and declare “Mission Accomplished”.  Nothing will have been learned, and the next time the country experiences mass protests in response to police brutality you’ll have Kerik asking “How much coordination does BLM have with ISIS?”




I want to believe that we as a Nation will move on from this and have more of an understanding and appreciation for one another. But as was stated we are terrible at thinking in the short term and remembering the past


----------



## Salt USMC (May 31, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I can't agree with your logic here. They are two entirely different issues. Both can be looked at through the federal and state levels.


I hope so, but as you can tell I’m pretty cynical on this issue


----------



## DA SWO (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Thanks, I’ll read it now.
> 
> While I do, let me ask you how you can justify what occurred in that video as proportional force? Isn’t disproportionate force exactly how this all started? I’m interested to see where you’re coming from on this as your initial response to the video seems pretty apathetic to fellow Americans being assaulted unjustly by law enforcement.





J. said:


> Here’s the info I have been looking for if anyone is interested. It seems they’re threatening misdemeanor and arrest to breaking the curfew. Fair enough.
> 
> Still haven’t gotten a solid explanation as to how assaulting the citizens on their porch is justified. Further up on this MN FAQ page it states law enforcement are supposed to inquire on why you are breaking these rules.
> 
> ...



Was actually coming back here to post this, so I change my mind.  The Cop that ordered the shot to be fired was wrong, as was the cops who shot.


Kraut783 said:


> FPS Police Officer killed last night in Oakland....Rest in Peace Brother.
> 
> *Federal Officer Killed in Shooting Outside Oakland Courthouse
> 
> ...


My oldest does this for another Federal Agency (IRS).  Just hops his area stays cold.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Oh, you don't like that they're coming after your house?  Well you're literally inciting violence.  Dear sportsball people, STFU. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267133696949264387


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Driving towards 3rd Prct.
> pics to follow.


More to follow....


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Every community is different, there isn't any magic flow chart. You can work for years and finally get a great relationship with the community, then one thing can ruin it...and you have to define what a community is.....many different factions make up a community...it's hard to make everyone happy.
> 
> There is no "magic bullet" so to speak....
> 
> It doesn't help when social media and the media itself get people into a frenzy....


2 decades down the shitter here in Cincinnati. Mayor even said it today. CPD, did a 180 Since 2001, other PD‘s come here to learn from CPD. It is not going to be pretty if it spills over the river to northern Kentucky. Covington is a powder keg just waiting for someone with a match.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> More to follow....


MF does not even have a Mag in. We can send them half way around the world And trust them to do the right thing but not here?


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Governor Ducey has issued a statewide Curfew for the next week, increased National Guard mobilization.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267186128798363648


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> MF does not even have a Mag in. We can send them half way around the world And trust them to do the right thing but not here?


That is why I took that photo, when I got up close enough I could see that they had magazines with them, but not one soldier had a magazine in the well.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That is why I took that photo, when I got up close enough I could see that they had magazines with them, but not one soldier had a magazine in the well.



And for good reason. Not enough training and the stakes are high.


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Wrong questions to be asking.  A better question would be “What can departments do better to serve the community and prevent these occurrences in the future?”



Let me put it this way.  How many racist douchebags or murderous cunts have you met in the military? They exist, they are usually found out eventually and dealt with.  Sometimes it's to late and they commit a crime.  Police forces are no different.  Add in shitty budgets with little to no training.  They also have an uphill PR battle, while the media is chucking shit at them, add in those calling for the outright elimination of law enforcement completely.   All of this leads to a pretty shitty recruiting pool.  
You know what needs to be done first?  Same thing that needs to be done for law enforcement in Canada.  Properly fund them.


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Let me put it this way.  How many racist douchebags or murderous cunts have you met in the military? They exist, they are usually found out eventually and dealt with.  Sometimes it's to late and they commit a crime.  Police forces are no different.  Add in shitty budgets with little to no training.  They also have an uphill PR battle, while the media is chucking shit at them, add in those calling for the outright elimination of law enforcement completely.   All of this leads to a pretty shitty recruiting pool.
> You know what needs to be done first?  Same thing that needs to be done for law enforcement in Canada.  Properly fund them.



I think an education requirement can go a long way. A two year degree at minimum. If you come in at 21, you don't have a whole lot of life experience so you need something to take its place. 

Yes, we expect kids as young as 17 to join and train for war and they don't have ANY experience. But they're also not left alone or in pairs walking the beet to get their community policing on. You not only need to be a practitioner of the law, but a representative for the district you represent.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Yep!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3486864431342904


----------



## GOTWA (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Yep!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's 100% what the country needs. That's a protest I can get behind and a leader i would follow.


----------



## RackMaster (May 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think an education requirement can go a long way. A two year degree at minimum. If you come in at 21, you don't have a whole lot of life experience so you need something to take its place.
> 
> Yes, we expect kids as young as 17 to join and train for war and they don't have ANY experience. But they're also not left alone or in pairs walking the beet to get their community policing on. You not only need to be a practitioner of the law, but a representative for the district you represent.



Exactly.  The basics in Canada are just high school diploma but the job's are so competitive that you probably won't be looked at without at least a 2 year college diploma in Police Foundations or Law and Security.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

Scottsdale had no formal protest, it was a straight up attack on the Fashion Square mall.

ETA: Fuck these people.

Pair of Brooklyn lawyers including Ivy League corporate attorney charged in Molotov cocktail attack on NYPD cruiser


----------



## Marauder06 (May 31, 2020)

I'm beginning to wonder if this is the start of an "Arab Spring" moment for the US.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

It seemed wrong to live just 15 minutes from the 3rd Precinct and not drive down that way and see for myself what was happening. 

A few observations to share:

*(Pics linked below)*

Not one officer to be found anywhere in the Minneapolis area.  I assuming this is by design, their presence would only act as a catalyst to those looking for a reason to cause trouble.

As I drove thru Uptown I was amazed at how all of the building along Hennepin had been boarded up.  Many had messages painted on them, one in particular struck me:  “We live upstairs, please don’t burn!”

People were pulling over on the side of the bridge to take photos of the aftermath below - again, no cops to stop them.

I parked my car in the lot of the looted out Target.  Everything was accessible As you can imagine, traffic was quite contested in the area - again, no cops to direct traffic so there were volunteers in yellow vests who took it up themselves to keep the traffic moving. 

National Guard troops were out in force, their mission?  Well from what I could see it was to take as many pictures as they could with the people around them.  It was very cool to see the masses walk up and ask, “may we take our picture with you?”

I stopped and listened to a speaker at 1 of 2 different rallies I saw happening.  He spoke of peaceful protest and not letting themselves get mixed in with those looking to loot or burn.  He spoke of the National Guard and how he did not want to hear about anyone harassing them. " These men and women", he said, "are volunteers from our communities to protect and serve.  They are here to protect us.  They are the ones who come to our aid after a flood or terrible disaster, if you have a problem with the National Guard, I don’t want to know you.  He then led them in a chant of “Thank you, guard!”

There were table after tabled filled with cold bottled water and snack-bars. (no charge).  There was a dude driving around with 2 other’s in the back of a small pick up truck, they were tossing cold bottled water to whomever needed or asked for it.

The burned out buildings were not restricted, not guarded.  I watched people walk thru the burned out Arby’s - It was….it was frustrating to see ‘tourists’ walking thru the now destroyed 3rd Precinct building.

The atmosphere was one of reverence.  People walked and talked, they took pictures, they hugged, they listened, but nobody was loud.  It was as if no one wanted to call attention to themselves.  Instead, they just wanted to be part of the moment.

There was no ‘legit’ media to be found either.  The speakers talked of how they had sent press releases and Facebook/Twitter invites - no one showed up to cover the ‘good’ that was happening today….I’m guessing they’ll be out in force tonight.

Pics from Today


----------



## Dame (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> whole post


Please be careful. Get home well before anything starts. WE need you.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

African Americans abusing an African American NCO.





__ https://www.facebook.com/robert.quigley.35/posts/2777384109034232
			




Restraint from this dude and the control of emotion is pretty legit.  Promote ahead of peers.

@Ooh-Rah I think the LEOs got an assist from the NG and are getting sleep and they will be out in force tonight.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> .
> 
> Pics from Today


I wanted to go to the OTR this morning. Both boys looked at me and said we will tackle you and tie you up. 5 years ago I would have tried it. I asked why, if someone touches your truck, you will shoot them....they are right. 😂


----------



## TimoteoDunkin (May 31, 2020)

My family and I are Hispanics and proud to be but the burning of the American Flag and looting of small businesses and Neighborhoods across the U.S needs to stop. Being close to Ft Bragg watching looters on social media burning downtown businesses in Fayetteville and other areas surrounding it keeps us speechless. My hometown in the Southern tip of Texas not far from the Mexican border isn’t partaking in rioting and the above actions seen across the U.S. Instead, they are celebrating their children and grandchildren graduate schools, welcoming a new chapter in life one built for the American dream. African Americans aren’t the only ones who have seen adversity in their lives, the people that I know have as well but we fight on and define moments of chaos by pushing forward.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Senior police (Chief included) are walking the crowds and doing interviews with the "internet media".  The response and appreciation I am seeing from the crowd is shockingly surprising.  Sad that the MSM is nowhere to be found....at least in the peaceful areas.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Boojahideen?  Oh for fucks sake, go home.  
(talking about bottom video, the top one was linked to it)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267253138815430663


----------



## CQB (May 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> African Americans abusing an African American NCO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a great lesson in restraint.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 31, 2020)

Like father like son....

Son of Minnesota’s attorney general: 'I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA'


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

DeBlasio's daughter was arrested last night.  

Mayor Bill de Blasio’s daughter, Chiara, arrested at Manhattan protest


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

I was down at the protests for a hour or so today, simply as an observer. 

I cant speak for how things will go once it gets dark, but the crowd was very good about self-regulating like this video shows.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267250545707741184


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Like father like son....
> 
> Son of Minnesota’s attorney general: 'I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA'


Fuck both of them.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I was down at the protests for a hour or so today, simply as an observer.
> 
> I cant speak for how things will go once it gets dark, but the crowd was very good about self-regulating like this video shows.
> 
> ...


There's absolutely a difference between the protesters and the rioters.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 31, 2020)

TimoteoDunkin said:


> My family and I are Hispanics and proud to be but the burning of the American Flag and looting of small businesses and Neighborhoods across the U.S needs to stop. Being close to Ft Bragg watching looters on social media burning downtown businesses in Fayetteville and other areas surrounding it keeps us speechless. My hometown in the Southern tip of Texas not far from the Mexican border isn’t partaking in rioting and the above actions seen across the U.S. Instead, they are celebrating their children and grandchildren graduate schools, welcoming a new chapter in life one built for the American dream. African Americans aren’t the only ones who have seen adversity in their lives, the people that I know have as well but we fight on and define moments of chaos by pushing forward.


No you are Green and Human not Hispanic.  I care about YOU. You need help, you reach out. This community is wide. We have your back.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 31, 2020)

The moment night turns is the moment this gets violent.  I don't know why people think Law Enforcement should be soft in their response to things like this? How about thump every skull responsible, no bail?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267285403309989889
Very sad.


----------



## Blizzard (May 31, 2020)

J. said:


> Multi-Agency Command Center -  	Frequently Asked Questions about the Curfew
> 
> *Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.? *
> 
> ...


So, to close out the earlier discussion, in the video, how many times did law enforcement instruct them to go inside?

Also, curfew violation is a misdemeanor.

Many protesters still don't seem to  are because funds were set up pay their bail.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> There's absolutely a difference between the protesters and the rioters.



For sure. I'm glad that tonight (so far) the protestors are preventing the rioters from fucking things up.


----------



## Jaknight (May 31, 2020)

How did he manage to steal a horse?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 31, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> How did he manage to steal a horse?



There are some things coming out of this that are so nonsensical I can't help but laugh; this is one of em.

Hopefully the horse is ok, as well as whatever officer the horse belonged to.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

JR Smith ain't playing.  Fuck with his shit, get ready to bleed.

J.R. Smith Beats The Hell Out of Alleged Car Vandalizer During L.A. Protests


----------



## J. (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Boojahideen?  Oh for fucks sake, go home.
> (talking about bottom video, the top one was linked to it)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267253138815430663



My brain isn’t sure if I should laugh hysterically or be outraged. What a nerd.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

Understand this is all shortened clips and isn't telling the full story of their actions, however it gets the anti police message across. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10105803131035868&id=18720408


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 1, 2020)

I'm surprised it took the Black Bloc fucks in Montréal to get in on the looting. 

Montreal protest against anti-black racism, police impunity turns violent - CityNews Toronto


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 1, 2020)

At 4:22 the good guys in the protest came out with a win. That guy should have fallen down the stairs a bit longer before being thrown over to authorities.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 1, 2020)

Antifa guy getting rolled up by protesters and delivered to police in DC.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267250164277764097


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jun 1, 2020)

J. said:


> Here’s the info I have been looking for if anyone is interested. It seems they’re threatening misdemeanor and arrest to breaking the curfew. Fair enough.
> 
> Still haven’t gotten a solid explanation as to how assaulting the citizens on their porch is justified. Further up on this MN FAQ page it states law enforcement are supposed to inquire on why you are breaking these rules.
> 
> Me having met Americans before, I can more than assume most don’t know this exact rule. A police officer telling me to go inside then shooting at me with a less lethal doesn’t explain anything. At my home, on my property, telling me what to do smells grossly unconstitutional.



Just adding my thoughts on this - we only saw the kids taking the video as the police were coming up the street telling residents to get inside their houses.  We don't know what these kids were up to _before_ they took the video... For all we know, they could've participated in the riot and just ran back home to watch the police walk by. 

Another thing I noticed was the kids were wearing black hoodies and looking very much like Antifa members. So I'm thinking that in that moment, the perception of the police is that these kids are violating curfew, didn't listen to the police telling them to get inside the house and instead continued to take the video, and, based on the clothes they're wearing, the cops probably thought these kids participated in the riots.

Either way, the kids should've listened. It wasn't an ordinary day. Civil unrest was happening and the police were trying to restore order.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Your Minnesota State Attorney General, ladies and gents....
> 
> The pic is from his 2018 Twitter feed and is NOT photoshopped.
> 
> ...


And now he is going to take the lead in the prosecution of Officer Chauvin.  This despite his Antifa support and the fact that he's never been a prosecutor or court room attorney.  Again, what a clusterfuck.

I'm going to add another observation here, @Ooh-Rah is aware of this but others here may not be, a few years ago a black Minneapolis police officer of Somali decent responding to a report of a sexual assault, shot and killed an unarmed white woman, Jasmine Damond, who had called 911 to report the possible assault.  While still in his squad, Noor, sitting in the passenger seat was "surprised" by Damond, who approached the squad on the drivers side. He drew his weapon while seated in the squad and reaching across his partner in the driver seat, shot and killed Damond through the drivers window.  Here's the wiki account of the incident:
Shooting of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

I bring this incident up because it was as equally as senseless as Floyd's killing.  However, we didn't have video of it.  While there were vigils for Damond, there were no large scale protests at all.  As a matter of fact, BLM and others were largely quiet.  Would they have been had the skin colors been reversed?  As a matter of fact, there were actually protests claiming that Noor was being treated unfairly because he was the first Somali officer.  Charges were eventually brought against Noor and he was convicted of 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.

Many parallels can be drawn between the incidents with Damond and Floyd that speak to perhaps an institutional problem in training.   However, the double standard in the community response to both is striking.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> And now he is going to take the lead in the prosecution of Officer Chauvin.  This despite his Antifa support and the fact that he's never been a prosecutor or court room attorney.  Again, what a clusterfuck.
> 
> I'm going to add another observation here, @Ooh-Rah is aware of this but others here may not be, a few years ago a black Minneapolis police officer of Somali decent responding to a report of a sexual assault, shot and killed an unarmed white woman, Jasmine Damond, who had called 911 to report the possible assault.  While still in his squad, Noor, sitting in the passenger seat was "surprised" by Damond, who approached the squad on the drivers side. He drew his weapon while seated in the squad and reaching across his partner in the driver seat, shot and killed Damond through the drivers window.  Here's the wiki account of the incident:



You want a mistrial?  'Cause that's how you get a mistrial....


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 1, 2020)

So Bunch of FB people are saying that shooting someone who is looting and burning your business is murder and you have no right to defend a business. I asked how do you stop a looter than and they told me I write to Congress


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 1, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So Bunch of FB people are saying that shooting someone who is looting and burning your business is murder and you have no right to defend a business. I asked how do you stop a looter than and they told me I write to Congress



"I was fearing for my safety...."


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> And now he is going to take the lead in the prosecution of Officer Chauvin.  This despite his Antifa support and the fact that he's never been a prosecutor or court room attorney.  Again, what a clusterfuck.



That should go well.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> You want a mistrial?  'Cause that's how you get a mistrial....


That's my point exactly.  

These guys (I refuse to call them leaders at this point) have fucked this up from day 1.   It's frustrating to me.


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> You want a mistrial?  'Cause that's how you get a mistrial....



Perfect opportunity to say the system is rigged and to riot more.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Perfect opportunity to say the system is rigged and to riot more.


I wish this weren't the case, but sadly, I wouldn't put it past him.

I pointed out the Justine Damond incident in a previous post.  In that case, it took about 2 years to gain the conviction of Officer Noor.  If I recall, Noor wasn't officially charged for almost 6 months.  So, to suggest the Hennepin County Attorney is dragging his feet after one week is absurd.  I have a reasonable amount of confidence in his ability and that he was doing his due diligence to ensure a conviction.  To secure a conviction against a police officer is complex and probably requires the additional time.

Ellison on the other hand is a political fuckwit.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 1, 2020)

This is well organized. 

Police describe anarchists' extensive prep for violence, including 'bicycle scouts'


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 1, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Perfect opportunity to say the system is rigged and to riot more.


If there are more riots I get the feeling people are just gonna start shooting rioters. Considering the alternatives are being beaten to death by a mob or having your business/home burned down with you in it... people are gonna take their chances with the justice system.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 1, 2020)

I'm sure it doesn't need to be said to anyone here but keep your head on a swivel. 

Warning: Groups "canvassing" rural neighborhoods, taking photos of homes with police cars in driveways


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Well, the Roof Korean 2020 Meme?  Well it's not a meme anymore.  They're back.





__ https://www.facebook.com/hannah.fett.3/posts/809656159854468
			




And you now have armed residents manning checkpoints in their neighborhoods all over the country.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267469722808958978
I will point out that the Police Chief of Bellevue did the whole kumbaya bullshit taking a knee thing, didn't stop the riots that night.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> However, we didn't have video of it. While there were vigils for Damond, there were no large scale protests at all.



Almost as if video of events is what usually fully highlights the issue and gets people riled up.




Blizzard said:


> As a matter of fact, BLM and others were largely quiet. Would they have been had the skin colors been reversed?



 They did, you just likely didn't see or hear about it if you aren't in that circle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886977360096104448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/887012034709245953
Those are just the two I remember off the top of my head.



Blizzard said:


> As a matter of fact, there were actually protests claiming that Noor was being treated unfairly because he was the first Somali officer.



Are you forgetting that Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann called him an affirmative action hire days after the shooting, and tried to imply he shot Damond because he "came from a culture in which women should always be covered?". People were calling out the hypocrisy of the "Blue Lives Matter" crowd who immediately started calling for his death. 



Blizzard said:


> Many parallels can be drawn between the incidents with Damond and Floyd that speak to perhaps an institutional problem in training. However, the double standard in the community response to both is striking.



The only parallel is both are cops who had multiple issues with abusing their power and should have been fired long ago.

The only double standard is Chauvin managed to be involved with more killings than Noor.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> You want a mistrial?  'Cause that's how you get a mistrial....


No, you want an acquittal.  This is how you get an acquittal.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Almost as if video of events is what usually fully highlights the issue and gets people riled up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's just not right, although I agree the issue here is one of poor training and misuse of authority.  In Minneapolis PD, specifically, that appears to be an issue.  

In re: Damond, I can tell you, there were a few candlelight vigils and one march with a few hundred people after Damond's killing.  I can also tell you 100% there were absolutely zero widespread protests or outrage that even remotely approaches what we're seeing now, although the Chief of Minneapolis PD did step down as a result.  This took place only a few miles from where I live and spend a.lot of time in the area, so I'm very familiar with it.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

@Blizzard 

As I said, you likely don't see large protests because we don't have video. 

Even in instances like Drummond's in which there's no good way to defend the cops, protests don't really happen with video. Breonna Taylor is the most recent one, and about the only reasons protests started happening was after the Arbery video came out.

We have to take into account two the events around these cases.

People being unemployed, out of school, and the Floyd video being so graphic all helped to push this into a larger thing


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

So I've been told being in streets (when they have a permit and police close it off for them) is violating orders, we've discussed how some people think standing on your porch (which was allowed btw) but not going inside was violating orders, and numerous other instances where "you lose first ammendment rights for XYZ"

Well how about someone explain this one to me? (1:45ish if you wanna skip the speech)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267319103167107072


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

"That wouldn't happen to a white person" is one of the most blatant racist spews that continues to be played on and on.  White people are killed by cops at a greater rate and there's no riots, and no one cares.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I've been told being in streets (when they have a permit and police close it off for them) is violating orders, we've discussed how some people think standing on your porch (which was allowed btw) but not going inside was violating orders, and numerous other instances where "you lose first ammendment rights for XYZ"
> 
> Well how about someone explain this one to me? (1:45ish if you wanna skip the speech)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267319103167107072



Am I correct to assume you have zero experience in peacekeeping operations during rioting?


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So I've been told being in streets (when they have a permit and police close it off for them) is violating orders, we've discussed how some people think standing on your porch (which was allowed btw) but not going inside was violating orders, and numerous other instances where "you lose first ammendment rights for XYZ"
> 
> Well how about someone explain this one to me? (1:45ish if you wanna skip the speech)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267319103167107072


 What the hell thats terrible


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Rioters set fire to occupied buildings in Richmond and blocked Fire Department Response.  

Police chief details emotional rescue amid Richmond riot


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @Blizzard
> 
> As I said, you likely don't see large protests because we don't have video.
> 
> ...


I get video is a powerful tool.  However, it's absence doesn't explain the difference in response.  Could it more likely be that Damond's death didn't fit the BLM narrative? In addition, many people were calling for the immediate arrest and charging of all 4 officers with first degree murder, which I hope everyone here understands is a ridiculous demand.  A key problem I have is with many making this about race or a certain community when there truly is no objective evidence to support such an assertion.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Am I correct to assume you have zero experience in peacekeeping operations during rioting?



Ah yes, how could I forget that I must have extensive background in peacekeeping operations and riots in order to engage on a topic.

We may as well delete the political thread(since non of us are politicians), limit the coronavirus thread to only those with medical backgrounds, and any thread in which laws are brought up should only be discussed by the lawyers on the board.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "That wouldn't happen to a white person" is one of the most blatant racist spews that continues to be played on and on.


Except when it true?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Ah yes, how could I forget that I must have extensive background in peacekeeping operations and riots in order to engage on a topic.
> 
> We may as well delete the political thread(since non of us are politicians), limit the coronavirus thread to only those with medical backgrounds, and any thread in which laws are brought up should only be discussed by the lawyers on the board.



So I will take all of that as a simple no, and move on with the point and conversation.

In my experience dealing with rioters, it is often times easy to identify a possible agitator that could potentially and intentionally escalate the situation. It looks exactly like every time we had executed a snatch. Officers designated to do the pull go up behind the wall, wall is opened, and team goes in and extracts. It's textbook

I'm not suggesting that this was the right thing to do and have zero context out of this one clip. But a decision was made that he was to be removed from the situation and we are not privy to that reasoning.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Except when it true?


As shown in the Damond killing, it's not true.  No one rises up every time a white person is murdered by a cop.  No one rises up everytime a Mexican gets killed by a cop.  

As an aside, I posted in the Open Mic thread a TL,DR about what I've been feeling over the past several weeks.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> As shown in the Damond killing, it's not true. No one rises up every time a white person is murdered by a cop. No one rises up everytime a Mexican gets killed by a cop.


Except you are wrong. “White Privilege” does exist.  We could debate until eternity at what level, but it does.

I watched multiple examples of it this weekend when police were approaching groups of black protesters. Young happy whites would circle the groups of blacks and “immediately” the tone of the officers changed that of cooperation and a peaceful resolution. It was almost ... almost comical.

I don’t expect you to agree with me. Hell, I refused to even acknowledge it until a few years ago, but it’s true.


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Except you are wrong. “White Privilege” does exist.  We could debate until eternity at what level, but it does.
> 
> I watched multiple examples of it this weekend when police were approaching groups of black protesters. Young happy whites would circle the groups of blacks and “immediately” the tone of the officers changed that of cooperation and a peaceful resolution. It was almost ... almost comical.
> 
> I don’t expect you to agree with me. Hell, I refused to even acknowledge it until a few years ago, but it’s true.



I don't disagree with that at all. It also got me thinking, if white privilege exists, does black privilege? Brown Privilege?


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> As shown in the Damond killing, it's not true.  No one rises up every time a white person is murdered by a cop.  No one rises up everytime a Mexican gets killed by a cop.
> 
> As an aside, I posted in the Open Mic thread a TL,DR about what I've been feeling over the past several weeks.




I hate to say this, but it is by and large media coverage. We have protests in Omaha for floyd, but we also had mass protests for the pregnant white officer that was killed off duty who was assisting.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The only parallel is both are cops who had multiple issues with abusing their power and should have been fired long ago.


Hard, fast, emphatic, passionate, shout-it-from-the-rooftops, 24pt font "FUCK NO!!!!!" for the above. That’s a fucking crock of bullshit, and I’m calling you on it. That part of @Blizzard ‘s reply that this was directed to is spot the fuck on. In fact, dare I say that the institutional rot present in the failed leadership of this department goes past training, and sits firmly entrenched in the day-to-day function of same.

The chief of police is appointed by those elected officials that the general public hold in good faith (🤣) to keep the safety and best interests of the citizens in mind. These same elected officials aren’t going to appoint a leader who is diametrically opposed to their vision.  They are going to hire someone who has similar ideals.  Someone from outside a given metropolitan area may not have the same specific plan for moving a particular department and municipality forward walking into that interview.  However, they aren't going to get hired if they aren't generally agreeable to what the mayor/council/commission have in mind overall for that central plan.  That means any subconscious disdain that the elected leadership may harbor for the local electorate can be reflected in the leadership of the enforcement arm of that local government.

Now, when you hire in someone that genuinely gives a damn about the community they're policing, they're going to make damn sure that the officers are on the same page.  It's a painfully slow process at times, depending on what the prevailing culture is at the department at date of hire.  Sometimes the negative influences openly push back on the new leadership; sinecures need to be protected, after all.  The chief makes sure his or her standards for hiring are met, and the changes at the bottom eventually rise to meet the change at the top.  This is how you get cops on departments that aren't afraid to stand out in the age of Twitter and protest against police brutality.  

When you're in an area that the elected officials don't give two shits about their local electorate beyond their tax bracket and vote counts, they're going to hire in a chief that gives less of a tinker's damn than they do, because guess who's never going to run for office.  That subtle outlook on the "unwashed masses and rabble rousing proletariat that votes every couple of years" transfers through the chief and to the boots on the ground.  That exacerbates the "us vs. them" mentality that already exists simply as a function of what they do.  The subordinates become convinced of their own authority as conferred by that piece of tin and a sidearm, and they eventually believe themselves to be nigh on untouchable.  The local police union doesn't help to disavow them of that misconception.  This is how you get trigger happy policemen with zero compunction regarding how they treat the citizens they are sworn to "protect."  Anyone that speaks out against the negative environment gets hammered out of the department, and most likely leaves law enforcement altogether.  One-man-armies never win wars.

A Hispanic shot Philando Castile.  A Somali shot Justine Damond.  A Caucasian killed George Floyd.  This isn't racism; this is indicative of a pervasive rot in the leadership of the Minneapolis metro area (I insert that caveat because the PC shooting happened in a suburb of Minneapolis).  Power tripping is allowed and supported; prove me wrong.  




Cookie_ said:


> They did, you just likely didn't see or hear about it if you aren't in that circle.



First of all, I wouldn't trust Shaun King to tell me the sky was blue.  His debacle with resurrecting the North Star publication is but the latest incident that serves as a solid indictment of his character.  

Secondly, I guess Tariq Nasheed isn't in that circle, either.  Then again, Twitter is an eternal flame style dumpster fire that serves as a portal straight to Dante's fifth circle of Hell.  Many of the replies to his tweet were far less supportive of "justice for Justine" than the OP. "Folks only care because the deceased was white," was the overall theme I detected.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976179328760205312


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> So I will take all of that as a simple no, and move on with the point and conversation.
> 
> In my experience dealing with rioters, it is often times easy to identify a possible agitator that could potentially and intentionally escalate the situation. It looks exactly like every time we had executed a snatch. Officers designated to do the pull go up behind the wall, wall is opened, and team goes in and extracts. It's textbook
> 
> I'm not suggesting that this was the right thing to do and have zero context out of this one clip. But a decision was made that he was to be removed from the situation and we are not privy to that reasoning.



Cool, thanks for the context. Follow-up; what does a "possible agitator" look like? 

Figure it's obviously pretty easy if dude's walking around with rocks and bottles, but gets harder like situations in that video


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Floyd's family just released the results of their "independent" autopsy which found  that, shock, Floyd died from asphyxia due to sustained forceful pressure on his neck.  

The final autopsy result Hennepin County Coroners Office are still pending but the preliminary results, while not completely inconsistent, differed in conclusion from the family's results.

Still waiting to hear how the Hennepin County Coroners Office is part of the problem...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is well organized.
> 
> Police describe anarchists' extensive prep for violence, including 'bicycle scouts'





RackMaster said:


> I'm sure it doesn't need to be said to anyone here but keep your head on a swivel.
> 
> Warning: Groups "canvassing" rural neighborhoods, taking photos of homes with police cars in driveways


Just like any terrorist organization they're gathering intel to stage hits. Terrorists and collaborators are being shown an incredible amount of mercy.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 1, 2020)

My apartment building got hit last night. Nothing broken, but I've been helping clean paint off it all day. I'm thankfully on the third floor.

The rioters are making demands for the release of all black inmates, expungement of criminal records, etc or they will continue for another week.

I just want to go have a scotch at a bar...is that to much to ask?


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 1, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> A Hispanic shot Philando Castile. A Somali shot Justine Damond. A Caucasian killed George Floyd. This isn't racism; this is indicative of a pervasive rot in the leadership of the Minneapolis metro area (I insert that caveat because the PC shooting happened in a suburb of Minneapolis). Power tripping is allowed and supported; *prove me wrong*.



Minneapolis' top cop sued the department in 2007. Here's why it matters today

"For _*context*_": ""

In 2007, five black Minneapolis police officers alleged that city leadership tolerated discriminatory conduct against people of color, including African American police officers within the department, according to a complaint. *Medaria Arradondo* -- now the city's police chief -- *was among the plaintiffs.*

IMHO, Chief Arradondo isn't part of the problem. That asshole *FORMER LEO* *((DAMN I HATE TO EVEN FUCKING SAY THAT he used to be a Law Enforcement Officer))* and his 3 former LEO accomplices are at fault.



Cookie_ said:


> Cool, thanks for the context. Follow-up; what does a "_*possible agitator*_" look like?
> 
> Figure it's obviously pretty easy if dude's walking around with rocks and bottles, but gets harder like situations in that video



In answer to your question cookie, we only see a few short minutes in the sequence of events of a very long day for those police officers and those protesters. They both may have had confrontations earlier. We don't know. There may have been rock / bottle / running battle / CS gas ...etc.. involved, we just don't know.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Polk County Sheriff in Florida gives a strict warning to the idiots out there:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=296335091371146


----------



## 11Bull (Jun 1, 2020)

Living in a small town in a red state is awesome, I get to just not watch the news and be fine.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

@Rabid Badger 

It's more of just a general question, not quite specific to the video in question.

@Florida173 said he's had experience with doing this, so I just wonder what sort of warning signs/actions they would look for in the crowd.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 1, 2020)

@Cookie_  The guy with the megaphone in front of the crowd maybe? - or the idiot in front on his knees- trying to distract the police with his hands in the air while the hoodlums sneak around the LEO's and flank them from the sides or behind them and pelt them with rocks or molotov cocktails?

THAT GUY.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "That wouldn't happen to a white person" is one of the most blatant racist spews that continues to be played on and on.  White people are killed by cops at a greater rate and there's no riots, and no one cares.


Are they though? How about if they are unarmed?

POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Do Black Lives Matter? - Sociology Toolbox


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 1, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> @Cookie_  The guy with the megaphone in front of the crowd maybe? - or the idiot in front on his knees- trying to distract the police with his hands in the air while the hoodlums sneak around the LEO's and flank them from the sides or behind them and pelt them with rocks or molotov cocktails?
> 
> THAT GUY.


Lol, change megaphone to fireworks, his buddy was drawing a map of precinct 1 I think, caught him throwing a Molotov.... Cincinnati Mayor witness this and about 50 cops. They waited to the last minute and nabbed him.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Are they though? How about if they are unarmed?
> 
> POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Do Black Lives Matter? - Sociology Toolbox




As you can see in the visual representations of data they are. The Washington Post data also shows a 5 year decline on the number of unarmed Black and Hispanic people being killed by cops. In the same visual it shows a five year increase in the number of unarmed Whites being killed by cops.

Under the author's bias which only accounts for percentage of the population to illustrate that they're more likely to be killed.  However, let's look at crime statistics in the open.  For me IFF you're going to adjust the fatality rate from this data it should be done based on a percentage of the crimes committed.  

The FBI data kinda sucks because you get Latino's included in with Whites because somehow that's ethnicity and not race I suppose.  But this gives you an idea. Although African American represent 12% of the population, they represent 27% of the arrests per the data in 2017.  

Table 43


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Lol, change megaphone to fireworks, his buddy was drawing a map of precinct 1 I think, caught him throwing a Molotov.... Cincinnati Mayor witness this and about 50 cops. They waited to the last minute and nabbed him.



Thanks! Context is everything


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

Gov Blackface just tweeted that we have an 8pm curfew in place tonight.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Doing work right now, but did the POTUS just invoke the Insurrection Act?


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 1, 2020)

Omaha is under a 8-6am curfew that started yesterday, largely, in fact due to the shooting death of James Scurlock caused by Jacob Gardner.

When news first broke out of a white man killing a black man, local twitter erupted and so did other social media sites. Outrage soon followed and an increase in violence occurred. Many posts you'd see started saying that Gardner initiated the confrontation and being aggressive, started yelling out racial slurs, etc. Then the larger social media sphere picked up on it, well you can imagine the rest.

Today the appointed prosecutor has declared that the death was in self defense based on video footage provided from eye witnesses.


Basically what I'm trying to say is right now, especially, we all need to take the time to verify sources and gain as much context for events as possible. Everyone on this site does an amazing job at that and that's part of the reason why I get most of my news from here.

But it's a lesson thats worth repeating regardless lest we have the abyss stare back so to speak.

Omaha prosector says white bar owner killed black protester in self-defense




Spoiler: Footage, view if you'd like


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Doing work right now, but did the POTUS just invoke the Insurrection Act?



Not yet, but he did mention he may


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 1, 2020)

Here's his address.  Skip forward quite a bit to where he comes out. 

As an aside, did Trump bring his WWE announcer to work in the WH?


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)




----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

I've got a friend who lives in Indy. He's reporting houses with American Flags are being shot at. 5 of them within a mile of his house.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I've got a friend who lives in Indy. He's reporting houses are being shot at with American Flags. 5 of them within a mile of his house.



Hate, because this is the worst thing to start happening.

My same fears about how any shithead group can chuck a brick to start a riot are also applicable here.

Trash people (regardless of left/right) are fully trying to get this even more violent, and I frankly cant see them not being successful at this point.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I've got a friend who lives in Indy. He's reporting houses are being shot at with American Flags. 5 of them within a mile of his house.


How does one shoot an American flag ar a house?


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> How does one shoot an American flag ar a house?



FIFY.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 1, 2020)

In regards to the Insurrection Act, it'll be what needs to get order in place, or the biggest mistake that Trump could make right now and plunge the Nation into further violence. The problem is that I absolutely have no idea what will happen if it does get enacted (and then enforced).


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

Between the name Polk County, and the accent of this Sheriff, I ain’t fucking around in his jurisdiction. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267566825560211465


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> How does one shoot an American flag ar a house?



With a t-shirt cannon, I'd imagine 😉

Joke aside, think he means homes with American flags are being targeted.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I've got a friend who lives in Indy. He's reporting houses with American Flags are being shot at. 5 of them within a mile of his house.


Knowing some folks in Indiana...they may want to rethink their strategy.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2020)

Carmel Mayor Brainard backs off plan to sue Minneapolis over costs associated with riots

How many more will follow?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Here's his address.  Skip forward quite a bit to where he comes out.
> 
> As an aside, did Trump bring his WWE announcer to work in the WH?


I'll be honest, this is probably one of the best speeches he's ever given. It's like the pundits don't even care what he has to say.


----------



## CQB (Jun 1, 2020)

Colonel Macarthur, Major Patton, Major Eisenhower...it won’t be pretty.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

CQB said:


> Colonel Macarthur, Major Patton, Major Eisenhower...it won’t be pretty.


General MacArthur was explicitly ordered not to do what he did, and then he wasn't court martialed or removed.

Apparently the Phoenix DA is hoping that a night in jail will keep the rioters peaceful the next day.  All rioters arrested by Phoenix PD had been released, charges dropped, and curfew fines waived.  One of them was even interviewed at the protest on live TV a bit ago.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Between the name Polk County, and the accent of this Sheriff, I ain’t fucking around in his jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267566825560211465


I don’t know many areas in Polk county worth looting. You could burn that place down and it would probably look better... 

Jokes aside- other than Lakeland there aren’t a lot of developed areas to “riot” in. It’s a weird rural pocket between Tampa and Orlando. I doubt he will face many issues.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 1, 2020)

Tennessee is being hit but where I live we aren't worried but going about our daily work. I feel for those of you that are experiencing what you are. I am north of Knoxville in the mountains. No minorities on my side of the county. The next county north of me only has a few and they are accepted because they make the moonshine.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

I’ve seen this movie....it never ends well.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

Those two Brooklyn attorneys have been released on bond after being arraigned on federal charges. 

Brooklyn protests: 3 charged in Molotov cocktails toss are 2 attorneys, 1 professional agitator


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ve seen this movie....it never ends well.
> 
> View attachment 34226


It's kind of mindboggling to me.  

He could almost just not say anything at all and be just fine.  Instead, he talks.  And when he does it's like there is some secret game of Manchester being played where he's forced to say and do the most asinine thing possible.  Sigh.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 1, 2020)

You teargas and rubber bullet peaceful protesters for a ridiculous photo-op in front of a church, with a bible, upside down, then have no meaningful message? No calls for peace or to try and come together? Essentially doing everything the bible discourages? Seriously? All for what? To try and appeal to your bible belt voters? Oh and not to mention that this was right after you declare that you're considering ordering military units to bring order to the country? 

Look I get I may have voiced my displeasure for this administration in the past, but l honestly don't know how to spin this in a positive light. At all.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Those two Brooklyn attorneys have been released on bond after being arraigned on federal charges.
> 
> Brooklyn protests: 3 charged in Molotov cocktails toss are 2 attorneys, 1 professional agitator




Dislike because bond should have been high enough to not bail out.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 1, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> I don’t know many areas in Polk county worth looting. You could burn that place down and it would probably look better...
> 
> Jokes aside- other than Lakeland there aren’t a lot of developed areas to “riot” in. It’s a weird rural pocket between Tampa and Orlando. I doubt he will face many issues.




It's pretty much just Lakeland, and there is indeed plenty to looting to be done at the newer mall fronts on the south side of the i4 corridor.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

I wonder who that Sheriff is supporting for president...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 1, 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/ChasWVPolice/posts/2505658226391667
			




Dear parents, you are pieces of shit. What the heck!

Oh and this is what we're dealing with here in Phoenix


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267553935793041410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267572268105756672


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 1, 2020)

With Letterman gone, all I have left is Conan....


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 1, 2020)

That guy who set the courthouse on fire in Nashville has a decent history of scumbaggery, most notably getting caught doing heroin in a car with kids (one may have been his infant daugther).

There's also some things going around about him having a 3%er tattoo and some social media posts exposing anti-government ideology, but I haven't seen anything legit yet.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 2, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> You teargas and rubber bullet peaceful protesters for a ridiculous photo-op in front of a church, with a bible, upside down, then have no meaningful message? No calls for peace or to try and come together? Essentially doing everything the bible discourages? Seriously? All for what? To try and appeal to your bible belt voters? Oh and not to mention that this was right after you declare that you're considering ordering military units to bring order to the country?
> 
> Look I get I may have voiced my displeasure for this administration in the past, but l honestly don't know how to spin this in a positive light. At all.


Gassing protesters to do.....this


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267594813710446593
The Bishop who oversees St. John’s is not happy with it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267618111194304515


----------



## CQB (Jun 2, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Gassing protesters to do.....this
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267594813710446593


Well that was interesting...


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 2, 2020)




----------



## CQB (Jun 2, 2020)

...and that’s just downright disappointing.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267703207549165568


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 2, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267703207549165568




I have a cousin who lives a block or two from there, we've been keeping in touch through this and he was thinking about bugging out before but now he's on his way to our uncles who has a place out in BFE. 

Said that the gun fight went on for around 5 minutes and at one point sounded rapid fire but isn't for sure. God help us.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 2, 2020)

Fuck people, see y'all in a week.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 2, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I have a cousin who lives a block or two from there, we've been keeping in touch through this and he was thinking about bugging out before but now he's on his way to our uncles who has a place out in BFE.
> 
> Said that the gun fight went on for around 5 minutes and at one point sounded rapid fire but isn't for sure. God help us.


Damn this is getting crazier by the minute Hopefully it ends soon


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 2, 2020)

One thing is certain, there's no reason for a civilian to own an AR-15...

God bless everyone, especially those who live in these urban areas. We've been talking about a societal reset for a while now. Maybe one is coming.


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Jun 2, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> One thing is certain, there's no reason for a civilian to own an AR-15



That’s a hard disagree from me. I won’t respond to why in this thread, I’m sure there is another one we could do that in to keep this one on point.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 2, 2020)

Isiah6:8 said:


> That’s a hard disagree from me. I won’t respond to why in this thread, I’m sure there is another one we could do that in to keep this one on point.



If he's not being facetious in the face of obvious necessity, than.... yeah.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 2, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> One thing is certain, there's no reason for a civilian to own an AR-15...


For the sake of clarifacation....

Is this your belief or are you being sarcastic?


----------



## AWP (Jun 2, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For the sake of clarifacation....
> 
> Is this your belief or are you being sarcastic?



Yeah, no shit.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 2, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> One thing is certain, there's no reason for a civilian to own an AR-15...


 So then my Mini-14 would be okay. What is the difference between my M4 and Mini-14?


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 2, 2020)

I read it as sarcasm given the ... at the end of the sentence.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 2, 2020)

Another Shootout I don’t get it what’s the Goal?  why are they now engaging in Gunfire? Is it just to kill cops? 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267729917443108864


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 2, 2020)

More white nationalists causing issues 

Two New York lawyers arrested for firebombing an NYPD vehicle


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 2, 2020)

And right on cue, the locust!

A swarm of locusts invaded residential areas of Jaipur, as the issue persists in the region. Local reports stated that the locusts have traveled much farther than they usually do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/2020/05/05/locusts-africa-swarms-kenya-ethiopia/


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I read it as sarcasm given the ... at the end of the sentence.



I read it as sarcasm as well.  I've seen a lot of related memes on my FB feed.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jun 2, 2020)

The craziest thing to me, is to think “what could I have done to change what happened to George Floyd?” Nothing is that answer. If I as a medical professional saw that this man went limp, and went to render aid, I likely would have been arrested and possibly assaulted. 

There was no compassion, there was very little humanity. The complete lack of empathy by so many wearing Blue in this nation is sickening. A no knock warrant results in police murdering someone in the house of a licensed gun owner defending his property, a man is held down and suffocated on the street, police shooting unarmed men in the back while they run away, and what recourse do we have?

 Sitting on your porch, “Get the fuck in your house or else..... light em up.” As an American, truly how can you defend yourself?the 2A doesn’t really help anyone. It doesn’t help if they fire rubber bullets at you while you are sitting on your porch. You can’t respond, you can’t defend yourself, you certainly cannot fire back. At what point does the 2A really allow you to defend yourself against tyranny, because goddamn, it seems like we are seeing some of it now. Following the law isn’t the answer because they can hit your house while you are sleeping, on accident, and if you defend yourself, attempted murder on a cop.. Trying to defend your fellow citizens could be just as disastrous. If I see cops absolutely womping on some poor soul, I can’t even step in and try and stop them without getting fucking womped myself. 

I used to believe that if you followed the law and were respectful the police would leave you be. I used to believe that you could protest without getting tear gassed. I used to think it was ok to sit on the porch of my private property. These days, I don’t know that it is true. 

If POTUS does order active duty military into American cities, how can one possibly defend themselves if they decide you are “bad”?  Are all the “come and take them” crowd going to sit idly by while the military is taking their rights away? This wouldn’t be wearing a mask, and being asked to stay home. This would be curfews/stay at home orders  enforced via violence from the federal government. This would be “let me see your papers”. POTUS seemed to be almost giddy to have that happen on the phone call with governors yesterday. It is terrifying. 

I don’t have any answers. I am scared of the direction that we are headed. Today I am sad for America. I’m sad for all Americans.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 2, 2020)

Round-up of some big stories today

That ANTIFA_US tweet that has been going around, the one that called for "moving into white hoods"

Apparently set up by white nationalists/Groypers

Dont know what Gropyers are? Think the far-right version of ANTIFA. Loosely coordinated, vastly opinionated, and even hates people on their side who aren't "conservative enough".

Here's an article about them Trying to shut down Trump Jr.

Outside of that, Twitter also put a violence tag on Rep Gaetz for tweeting

“Now that we clearly see Antifa as terrorists, can we hunt them down like we do those in the Middle East?”


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 2, 2020)

That's some no nonsense. 

Florida sheriff urges residents to shoot looters who break into their homes


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 2, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Round-up of some big stories today
> 
> That ANTIFA_US tweet that has been going around, the one that called for "moving into white hoods"
> 
> ...



It's just noise to distract. Antifa has local chapter twitter accounts in a few places, but there won't be any calls for violence from them. Activity and guidance for violence is organized and not public. There's a few forums on darkweb that you can find some of it.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 2, 2020)

Malcolm X was pretty damn smart.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 2, 2020)

Cuomo blasts de Blasio: 'The NYPD and the mayor did not do their job last night'

This would be WILD...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267848581479895047


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 2, 2020)

"solidarity stones"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267908030206816259


----------



## J. (Jun 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> "solidarity stones"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267908030206816259



What if the rock made a cup though? Have to let it slide.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 2, 2020)

wowww....

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Tuesday slammed New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's handling of riots in his city, calling it a "disgrace" and saying he has the power to "displace" the mayor -- although doesn't want to at this point. 
Cuomo slams de Blasio's handling of riots, claims he has power to ‘displace’ mayor but not ‘at that point’


----------



## Rapid (Jun 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> View attachment 34225



The day people want to start paying cops as much as we pay pilots, and the day cops get just as much training & development as pilots, then I guarantee you all of these woes will be solved. You'd get the best of the best.

But... we live in the real world, where people don't want to pay for jack shit. A nation never gets what it _needs_, it only gets what it _deserves_.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> "solidarity stones"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267908030206816259


See, here's the thing...  I don't understand the need to protest.  This really isn't a controversial issue, even a couple frat boys playing beer pong can get behind this...


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 2, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> The craziest thing to me, is to think “what could I have done to change what happened to George Floyd?” Nothing is that answer. If I as a medical professional saw that this man went limp, and went to render aid, I likely would have been arrested and possibly assaulted.
> 
> {IMHO - I don't think "nothing" is the "answer". Those cops KNEW they were wrong. The Asian at the back of the Explorer KNEW he was wrong. He WANTED to intervene but looked like he was a rookie and was outranked. If many on this board had seen that happening on the street, I think risking a bumrush and a tasing at minute 5 of the knee to the neck to save George's life would have been worth the 5 day jail stay.}
> 
> ...



Stay safe, stay smart, stay at home, protect what's yours, keep a gun and a flashlight handy.

I agree It's been a long, long week for America and I'm sad as well.

There have been a lot of bad decisions made by everyone.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 2, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> Stay safe, stay smart, stay at home, protect what's yours, keep a flashlight handy.
> 
> I agree It's been a long, long week for America and I'm sad as well.
> 
> There have been a lot of bad decisions made by everyone.



So, your description of the Asian cop as I understand it is not correct.  

Officers Chauvin and Thao were the training officers on site. The rookies were Officers Lane and Kueng.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 2, 2020)

I "possibly" stand corrected (If the positioning and naming of the officers is correct-not sure) but the Asian officer at the back of the vehicle was obviously uncomfortable several times. No excuses as he should have acted and saved George's life while at other times he was nonchalant. Disgusting either way.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 2, 2020)

Rapid said:


> The day people want to start paying cops as much as we pay pilots, and the day cops get just as much training & development as pilots, then I guarantee you all of these woes will be solved. You'd get the best of the best.
> 
> But... we live in the real world, where people don't want to pay for jack shit. A nation never gets what it _needs_, it only gets what it _deserves_.



Most pilots make less than most police officers.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jun 2, 2020)

I have had many of my friends lately asked me about security measures for their home, how to get our state pistol permit, how to buy a gun/ammo and firearms training because of this. They are a mix of people who have had training and some never had. Some have guns and some want their first one.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 2, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> I "possibly" stand corrected (If the positioning and naming of the officers is correct-not sure) but the Asian officer at the back of the vehicle was obviously uncomfortable several times. No excuses as he should have acted and saved George's life while at other times he was nonchalant. Disgusting either way.


They all suck.  At one point all four of them were on the deceased, which is after he'd already been put in the squad car.



BloodStripe said:


> Most pilots make less than most police officers.



Huh? Median Income of an Airline pilot is Airline Pilot Salary | Salary.com

Police Officer: Police Officer Salary | Salary.com


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> They all suck.  At one point all four of them were on the deceased, which is after he'd already been put in the squad car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, your big 747 type pilots make what that says, but it takes years for most pilots to get there. Most start off making around $25k a year.

And most police officers I know will make more than that, especially after OT is factored in.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> "solidarity stones"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267908030206816259


Guess what kids, they don't care that you're 'on their side'.  
Where's Clint when I need him?


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 2, 2020)

NG in my state activated today (Wednesday), processing tomorrow (Thursday) and headed for DC.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 3, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> NG in my state activated today (Wednesday), processing tomorrow (Thursday) and headed for DC.


Stay frosty.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 3, 2020)

People not liking The Response here in California 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268029836397809666


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 3, 2020)

I'll take "how to lose your re-election campaign to the progressive candidate" for $1,000 Alex

 Eliot Engel heard on hot mic: "If I didn't have a primary, I wouldn’t care"


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> People not liking The Response here in California
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268029836397809666



Someone needs to look up the word "slaughtered".


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 3, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> People not liking The Response here in California
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268029836397809666



Hello, 911? Yes, I’d like to report an attempted murder, please.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 3, 2020)

NY AG Letitia James threatens to sue Trump over military deployment

New York Attorney General Letitia James has threatened to sue President Trump for mobilizing military forces to states to quell riots and looting that have broken out across the country in the wake of George Floyd’s death.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For the sake of clarifacation....
> 
> Is this your belief or are you being sarcastic?



Yes, that was pure sarcasm, I thought it would readily come through in the post, I was wrong. 

Clarification: If for any reason, a citizen of the United States previously put very much faith in the gov't or being able to count on the rest of society to keep themselves safe and secure, the previous few months should have erased that idea in a reasonable person's mind.

The medical community is not set up to handle disasters. 

Police and Fire are not big enough to handle mass unrest.

There's enough idiots in the population to cause massive damage to the rest of us. Enough to necessitate owning firearms....if I was home now I'd be wishing I could get my hands on some bear spray and a few grenades just in case.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 3, 2020)

My wife was Argentine FedPol for 25yrs and carried everyday for work. Shit is RUFF down there. When she immigrated here to Fay, USA, she thought she was gonna get a break. She thought wrong.

She trained for and got her CCP here in NC a few years ago. I used to have to ask her to concealed carry to the supermarket. I don't anymore.

I cried with her a few years ago when Argentina was burning, now she's crying with me. Fayetteville, NC is on fire.

ETA: Pretty sure the AR-15 Q has been put to rest for at least the near future.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 3, 2020)

This shit needs to stop. For context this is at the Children's Hospital in Houston, Tx.





__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2168899799922070&id=100004062123854


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 3, 2020)

That's messed up but, sadly, doesn't even crack top 20 as far as messed up things I've seen during this.

In MN, the NG was deployed to protect hospitals and critical government buildings, like State capital, courts, Federal Reserve, etc.  Perimeters are set up with streets blocked off to reduce access.  Their presence is very visable.

In MN, the governor and other elected officials are trying to push this bullshit narrative that most of the rioters and those causing the unrest are "white supremacist" groups and out of staters.  While I'm sure there are some of these, a vast majority are like the ones you saw in the video.  It wasn't white supremacists that looted the Target and  liquor stores, among others.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 3, 2020)

We need 12,000 Roof Koreans ASAP.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

Raiding animal shelters and subsequently killing puppies is now in the riot game. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268083754192470016


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Raiding animal shelters and subsequently killing puppies is now in the riot game.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268083754192470016



Fucking savages.   Some piece of shit threw gas on a horse trailer and set it on fire with horses in it.  And the driver had his kids in the back seat of the truck.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268015024179744769


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 3, 2020)

It was posted earlier that AG Ellison has taken over lead in the case of George Floyd.  We've covered why many view this as problematic.

Well, now, Ellison, who again has no experience as a prosecutor, never been a  courtroom attorney, and up until at least a couple years ago didn't have a valid license to even practice law (unclear if he's since met the requirements), has decided to elevate the charges against Chauvin to second degree murder.  Here's the Minnesota statute (scroll left and right for first and third degree criteria):
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

Based on what we've seen, and we all know there's always more to the story, I don't see how Chauvin's actions meet the criteria for second degree.  Third degree was the initial charge, along with manslaughter.  I could see those sticking.

This case has become a political tool by a political activist and it may very well jeopardize what should be a slam dunk conviction.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't see how Chauvin's actions meet the criteria for second degree.


The officer kneeled on his neck while the man begged for air, for nearly 10 minutes.  He was completely indifferent to the pleas - it is absolutely 2nd degree.  

I cannot stand Ellifson, but “everybody” knew it would be changed to 2nd degree eventually. The initial 3rd degree was so that the state could get him charged.



Spoiler: 2nd Degree Murder Defined



*Second degree murder*_ is generally defined as intentional *murder* that lacks premeditation, is intended to only cause bodily harm, and demonstrates an extreme indifference to human life. The exact legal definition of this crime will vary by jurisdiction._


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 3, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The officer kneeled on his neck while the man begged for air, for nearly 10 minutes.  He was completely indifferent to the pleas - it is absolutely 2nd degree.
> 
> I cannot stand Ellifson, but “everybody” knew it would be changed to 2nd degree eventually. The initial 3rd degree was so that the state could get him charged.
> 
> ...


Disagree. This is the actual MN statute that applies (you can change to a spoiler tag if that's more appropriate)


			
				Minnesota Statute 609.19 said:
			
		

> *609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.*
> 
> Subdivision 1.*Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. *
> 
> ...


The only one that could maybe fit is Subd 2 (1) and that may be a stretch since in only applies if the death occurs during the commission of another felony.  That's probably a pretty big hurdle in this scenario.  What other felony was being committed? What other part of the statute do you think fits? I also hear people saying it shod be elevated tl first degree, but they're morons.  We actually have to follow and prove the violation.

If you look 609.195, murder in the third degree, which is what Freeman convicted Noor on and what he initially sought here, that fits.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2020)

I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury.  That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him .  Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?

The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury.  That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him .  Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?
> 
> The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.


Zero evidence so far that they actually knew each other.  They worked at the same place at some point but even the nightclub owner stated it's unlikely they know each other; they worked at different times.

If I'm objective, and I try to be, I could not tell you Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. I think he was an asshole and moron in his application of force but do I think he knowingly tried to kill him while being filmed? I can't quite get there based on what I've seen so far.  Perhaps there's other evidence that we don't know about.

Again, to convict on 2nd degree, there has to be another felony.  What is the co-contributing felony?  3rd degree doesn't require this and seems to fit.

Moreover, I strongly suspect Chauvin's attorney to claim inability to get fair trail and look for change of venue.  We'll see what happens.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not a lawyer, but even I could prove 2nd degree just by showing the tape to a jury.  That cop meant to kill that man, or at a minor did not care if he killed him .  Add in the victims audible cries for help, the officer not struggling to keep the victim restrained, and the fact that they knew each other?
> 
> The fact that they knew each other is a BIG deal.


Don’t be to sure of that. Cop here last year got acquitted. but they where going 1st....dumb choice


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Again, to convict on 2nd degree, there has to be another felony.


Felony assault is what the prosecution is calling the 2nd felony.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Felony assault is what the prosecution is calling the 2nd felony.


Yep, was just going to post the same.  Good luck with that.

Sadly, this is quickly becoming a political; an opportunistic one for Ellison.  Why else would anyone with absolutely no experience be placed as the lead.


----------



## CQB (Jun 3, 2020)

There’s enough evidence for a conviction, enough raw footage to charge individuals with looting/disorder, but what will all this look like in six months? As I’m led to believe there are more people legitimately protesting on issues; poverty, housing etc. than a small group of rabble rousers, so what will change look like? Will cops get more resources? Will individual states listen & act on what their constituents want?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> There’s enough evidence for a conviction, enough raw footage to charge individuals with looting/disorder, but what will all this look like in six months? As I’m led to believe there are more people legitimately protesting on issues; poverty, housing etc. than a small group of rabble rousers, so what will change look like? Will cops get more resources? Will individual states listen & act on what their constituents want?



Legitimacy is getting lost. People are getting sick of their neighborhoods burning.

We're still on lockdown, so I'm not sure what people would be doing otherwise. Seems like everyone is allowed to not socially distance now, but still can't go to church/temple.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Legitimacy is getting lost. People are getting sick of their neighborhoods burning.
> 
> We're still on lockdown, so I'm not sure what people would be doing otherwise. Seems like everyone is allowed to not socially distance now, but still can't go to church/temple.



Legitimacy for the protest/riots might be getting lost, but I can't imagine we get through this without some major push for change in law enforcement, whatever that may be.

Remember, for every video of rioters doing shit, there's a video of officers shoving down a man with a cane, macing a woman just walking with her groceries, or other things that (out of context or otherwise) sours the community on police


----------



## CQB (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Legitimacy is getting lost. People are getting sick of their neighborhoods burning.
> 
> We're still on lockdown, so I'm not sure what people would be doing otherwise. Seems like everyone is allowed to not socially distance now, but still can't go to church/temple.


That’s another question, will this lead to more infections? This is Day 8 (?) & C-19 take 14 days to reveal itself.


----------



## The Quartermaster (Jun 3, 2020)

Turns out that the both the police and NG shoot was very legit and NOT what was told to us by the usual liars:


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Legitimacy for the protest/riots might be getting lost, but I can't imagine we get through this without some major push for change in law enforcement, whatever that may be.
> 
> Remember, for every video of rioters doing shit, there's a video of officers shoving down a man with a cane, macing a woman just walking with her groceries, or other things that (out of context or otherwise) sours the community on police



The POTUS has done more to help minorities than any other recent previous president, so I don't know where the federal/global law enforcement change has to occur. It's all predicated on a narrative that lots of people don't care, and even more have zero capacity to change. I mean.. putting up that black box on your social media yesterday is doing wonders I'm sure


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> There’s enough evidence for a conviction, enough raw footage to charge individuals with looting/disorder, but what will all this look like in six months? As I’m led to believe there are more people legitimately protesting on issues; poverty, housing etc. than a small group of rabble rousers, so what will change look like? Will cops get more resources? Will individual states listen & act on what their constituents want?


There was an NAACP letter put out that had some requests, but I can't seem to find it. Off the top of my head, they asked for;

Ban to using neck restraints and chokeholds

Demilitarization of police departments and equipment

National level guidelines for what police escalation of force should looks like

Make public all officer documentation regarding complaints, retraining, and certifications

The establishment of community review boards


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The POTUS has done more to help minorities than any other recent previous president, so I don't know where the federal/global law enforcement change has to occur.



Citation wanted on the POTUS aspect of your comment, but we can discuss that in the politics thread if you'd like.

I think any system can improve, even if your perfectly fine with where it is. We can get into the finer points of the specifics of what some groups (see my NAACP post) are asking for, and see if maybe those are something that might actually help improve policing and community relations.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> That’s another question, will this lead to more infections? This is Day 8 (?) & C-19 take 14 days to reveal itself.


said that the first day of rioting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

London, UK...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268265024587534343

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268282833325502465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268277537437822977


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Fucking savages.   Some piece of shit threw gas on a horse trailer and set it on fire with horses in it.  And the driver had his kids in the back seat of the truck.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268015024179744769


It didn’t happen like that VIDEO: Reports of Sapulpa man injuring horses at Tulsa protest may not be correct – Sapulpa Times


----------



## CQB (Jun 3, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> There was an NAACP letter put out that had some requests, but I can't seem to find it. Off the top of my head, they asked for;
> 
> Ban to using neck restraints and chokeholds
> 
> ...


Ok, that’s a start, but underlying causes; housing, health, jobs. I’ve heard that there’s real concerns regarding these areas.

As for police resources of any hue, I’ve worked in private security for years & my catch all phrase is ‘security: last thing you think of & the first thing you scream at.’


----------



## nobodythank you (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The POTUS has done more to help minorities than any other recent previous president, so I don't know where the federal/global law enforcement change has to occur. It's all predicated on a narrative that lots of people don't care, and even more have zero capacity to change. I mean.. putting up that black box on your social media yesterday is doing wonders I'm sure


While I agree with the first half regarding POTUS, the second half is inaccurate (law enforcement change). This whole episode (the video that started it) is not an issue with race. People need to stop with the race, there is nothing on that video that shows any form of racism. What it does show is a long time problem with policing and policing administration in general. What I am about to say is probably not going to be popular here. Many will initially scoff, but all I ask is for you to hear me out and let me try to explain. 

_How many LEOs and former LEOs here have had similar training as seen in the video? 

How many have heard in training (and said the same thing) "if you can talk, you can breathe"?_ 

_How many times have we heard police administrators make rude and disparaging comments about members of the public? Or given an officer a hard time for trying to go the extra mile with a citizen?

How many have been ordered to do something they weren't sure about but didn't want to lose their jobs? Or forced to re-write a report because the supervisor doesn't support the narrative they want vs the truth?

How many have seen where administrators look the other way (and order subordinates to do so) for citizens that contribute to their campaigns?_ 

_How many times have you as an officer, needed some mental health days or a day off and been told to suck it up and move on? Or afraid to make use of any mental health counseling or job assistance for fear of reprisal or negative effect to your career?

How many have been told if you don't publicly or financially support the head cop that you could lose your job? Or if you support the opposition you risk reprisal?_

I have seen all of these and more in the short time I was in LE. In a town that was heavily political with a moderate-sized agency (around a 1000 sworn). Law enforcement's problem is that they (meaning administration and thereby the culture that permeates through the ranks...aka old-timers) think they are above the citizenry. For the longest time, it can be argued that on the micro-scale cops are inherently good. On an individual basis, cops try to do right by the community. On the macro-scale cops (their administrators and culture) are inherently power-hungry and abusive.  

Now, if you've never been the target of an IA witch hunt (where the administration wants you gone) or false criminal accusation, then it is easy to say "I never saw any of that" or "you're just jaded". I am jaded, but that doesn't mean I am wrong either. If you have been the subject of such actions then you know that a lot of what I have said is true. While much of what I have seen and experienced is anecdotal, I have seen it an heard it from other people within the profession. 

Does that mean we abolish the LE profession? Certainly not. However, the profession needs to evolve and change. If you have spent any time in that profession you know this to be true. 

Now before any current or former LEs decide to jump on me consider this, YOU may have not seen any of the above, and there are bad apples in society that cause trouble, but with as much as we have seen come to light as a result of incompetent leadership and policing in agencies across the nation. You have to ask yourself. Could I be right? Does law enforcement need to evolve? Could their interactions with the public be improved?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> While I agree with the first half regarding POTUS, the second half is inaccurate (law enforcement change). This whole episode (the video that started it) is not an issue with race. People need to stop with the race, there is nothing on that video that shows any form of racism. What it does show is a long time problem with policing and policing administration in general. What I am about to say is probably not going to be popular here. Many will initially scoff, but all I ask is for you to hear me out and let me try to explain.



I'm watching videos of white people apologizing for being white and kissing boots of black people out on the streets. You might not think this is about race, and I can suggest the real problem might not be, but the BLM movement absolutely thinks it's about race.

I can't rebuttal anything from the rest of your post because of I have zero experience. I'll leave it to the current and past LEOs.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

Can someone explain to me again why I care what a former general thinks when he has zero experience in Defense Support to Civil Authorities (DSCA). Does he also take issue with all these State's Governors are currently activating their National Guardsmen to support the defense of their cities burning down?


----------



## nobodythank you (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I'm watching videos of white people apologizing for being white and kissing boots of black people out on the streets. You might not think this is about race, and I can suggest the real problem might not be, but the BLM movement absolutely thinks it's about race.
> 
> I can't rebuttal anything from the rest of your post because of I have zero experience. I'll leave the current and past LEOs.


You're absolutely right. They and everyone else on both sides is making it about race, unfortunately. Thanks for the response.

ETA: also agree on Mattis one. Everything so far response wise has been in accordance with the Constitution.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Can someone explain to me again why I care what a former general thinks when he has zero experience in Defense Support to Civil Authorities (DSCA).


Because he’s right.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Does he {Mattis} also take issue with all these State's Governors are currently activating their National Guardsmen to support the defense of their cities burning down?


Governors mobilizing the State National Guard and the President of the United States sending in active-duty troops is not even remotely the same thing.  You know it, I know it, and the American People know it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Governors mobilizing the State National Guard and the President of the United States sending in active-duty troops is not even remotely the same thing.  You know it, I know it, and the American People know it.



General question.  Minneapolis is your city.  I've only seen the BDA on television, twitter, etc.  There are several previous precedents for sending troops to restore order.  It is not common, but right now many places look like LA 1992.  You have police forces with limited ability to contain the violence in addition to having no political back up.  (President threatens to use the Insurrection Act, New York Governor Cuomo tells DeBlasio he'll be displaced)

Here in Phoenix we personally don't need active duty troops as backup, comparatively we haven't had major riots. But we do need the elected leadership in Phoenix to grow a spine.

This could end up dying down in most places, but certain places may need to be reinforced whether that is with active duty troops or other guard units that get placed under local command authority.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Governors mobilizing the State National Guard and the President of the United States sending in active-duty troops is not even remotely the same thing.  You know it, I know it, and the American People know it.



Historically it hasn't. Most times if there is an event that would bring an active component, an dual-status commander is identified through NORTHCOM for both title 10 and 32 authorities. Happens during natural disasters and happens to the significant events like Super Bowl and DNC/RNC.

Coming from Florida, I've probably been activated more times than most people on here with Guard experience and have done a crazy amount of DSCA training for it. Admittedly doesn't make me an expert, but gives some of my perspective.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2020)

So who is this Candice Owens?  She's got a "checkmark" by her name so I'm assuming she's 'somebody'?  This video popped up on my Facebook feed today.  She's coming out against the support for George Floyd and calling out the BLM movement.

Not sure what to make of her... @R.Caerbannog , are you aware of her?  Thoughts?





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=273957870461345


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 4, 2020)

Well that sucks.  George Floyd autopsy: Floyd died from heart attack, was coronavirus positive at time of death

Garcetti Halting LAPD Budget Increase, Prohibiting Adding Names to Gang Database

LA Council Members Seek to Eliminate at Least $100 Million in Police Budget

Guess it sucks to live in LA.


----------



## AWP (Jun 4, 2020)

Think your police are poorly trained now...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well that sucks.  George Floyd autopsy: Floyd died from heart attack, was coronavirus positive at time of death


The Defense is going to be all over this.  Floyd's family had an 'independent' autopsy done and their results were released on Monday.
Cause of death:  Homicide due to asphyxia.

Fuck a duck if a jury finds that officer 'not guilty', cause brother...you ain't seen riots in the street like you will that night.

Little piece of trivia, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but getting a murder conviction on a Minnesota police officer, is about as rare as @AWP attending a Nickleback concert.

The most recent was a Minneapolis Somali police officer convicted of killing a white, Australian woman.   The BLM stance was, "_of course you convict the black cop of killing a white woman_'.


----------



## AWP (Jun 4, 2020)

Between CV-19 and this, preppers are looking like geniuses.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The Defense is going to be all over this.  Floyd's family had an 'independent' autopsy done and their results were released on Monday.
> Cause of death:  Homicide due to asphyxia.
> 
> Fuck a duck if a jury finds that officer 'not guilty', cause brother...you ain't seen riots in the street like you will that night.
> ...


Let's also not look past the fentanyl in his system or the evidence of recent methamphetamine use.

To me, some care is probably needed in how George Floyd is viewed and portrayed.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 4, 2020)

He is going to get acquitted If the DA keeps upping the charges.
Shooting of Samuel DuBose - Wikipedia 
watched this unfold locally. Cop canoed the guys head on camera. He was guilty of murder but not premeditated murder. The DA was stupid. Depending how the the laws are written in MN, this guy is going free.


----------



## nobodythank you (Jun 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> Think your police are poorly trained now...


My favorite on this (without diverging too far) is when people assume cops have more training than anybody else when it comes to firearms. In Florida, cops are only required to shoot their weapon for qualification once every two years. Defensive Tactics (ground fighting and take downs), same thing. Now to be fair, most agencies require internally to qualify once a year in all high liability areas (driving, firearms, DT). However, just like in the Army, there were cops that should NEVER have been issued a sidearm, badge, baton, or taser. I recall once instance at the range when a neighboring rural agency had one cop that had his slide rusted shut because he hadn't pulled his weapon from his holster since the last qual two years earlier. Some agencies try to do as much training as their budget, and the administration allows.

ETA: cops in most cases are just as or more poorly trained as your average joe firearms enthusiast. It's the ones that take a personal interest in firearms instruction and training that surpass their contemporaries. Also forgot, the once a year thing is, in most cases, a requirement for accreditation IIRC.


----------



## nobodythank you (Jun 4, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> He is going to get acquitted If the DA keeps upping the charges.
> Shooting of Samuel DuBose - Wikipedia
> watched this unfold locally. Cop canoed the guys head on camera. He was guilty of murder but not premeditated murder. The DA was stupid. Depending how the the laws are written in MN, this guy is going free.


I think the possibility increases day by day. Just like some famous cases here in FL, they will go for the sexy charges, and not the ones they could realistically prove. Then again this could all be for show. I am willing to bet money the defense is gonna throw the agency under the bus and try to go for something similar to qualified immunity. They will likely argue (among other tactics) that they followed policy and training, and it was the agency that is at fault for the death.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 4, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> I think the possibility increases day by day. Just like some famous cases here in FL, they will go for the sexy charges, and not the ones they could realistically prove. Then again this could all be for show. I am willing to bet money the defense is gonna throw the agency under the bus and try to go for something similar to qualified immunity. They will likely argue (among other tactics) that they followed policy and training, and it was the agency that is at fault for the death.


It's pure politics at this point. You have a sitting AG in MN that's also a former U.S. Representative and a political activist.  He sees personal opportunity.


----------



## nobodythank you (Jun 4, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> It's pure politics at this point. You have a sitting AG in MN that's also a former U.S. Representative and a political activist.  He sees personal opportunity.


True on all counts, but to be fair, it isn't uncommon for DAs/AGs and the like to come down and take a high profile case regardless of party affiliation.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 4, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> My favorite on this (without diverging too far) is when people assume cops have more training than anybody else when it comes to firearms. In Florida, cops are only required to shoot their weapon for qualification once every two years. Defensive Tactics (ground fighting and take downs), same thing. Now to be fair, most agencies require internally to qualify once a year in all high liability areas (driving, firearms, DT). However, just like in the Army, there were cops that should NEVER have been issued a sidearm, badge, baton, or taser. I recall once instance at the range when a neighboring rural agency had one cop that had his slide rusted shut because he hadn't pulled his weapon from his holster since the last qual two years earlier. Some agencies try to do as much training as their budget, and the administration allows.



Same thing in the military.  In the last ten years or so, I've fired a weapon as part of military training a grand total of twice.  That's been within the last two years.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 4, 2020)

Mingya, what a shit show...

You would think after the highly publicized Eric Garner death that kneeling on someone's neck or chest for too long would be known as lethal force, independent of: *asthma, cardiovascular disease, Covid-19, recent drug use* etc.

Not a lawyer, but whatever charges they come up with better damn well be provable in a court of law, because like it or not, this cop still has rights.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 4, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> True on all counts, but to be fair, it isn't uncommon for DAs/AGs and the like to come down and take a high profile case regardless of party affiliation.


Agreed....but usually they have some sort of experience as a prosecutor...or court room experience...or even a current license to practice law.  None of these are true with Ellison, except possibly the last one (he was not current 2 years ago, it's possible he's done some continuing ed to get it current again).  MN law does not require the AG to be an attorney or have a license to practice law.  It's rare, but Ellison is evidence that it can happen. That is a recipe for a shit show, regardless of party affiliation.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So who is this Candice Owens?  She's got a "checkmark" by her name so I'm assuming she's 'somebody'?  This video popped up on my Facebook feed today.  She's coming out against the support for George Floyd and calling out the BLM movement.
> 
> Not sure what to make of her... @R.Caerbannog , are you aware of her?  Thoughts?
> 
> ...


I've heard of her, but I'm not on social media so I only have cursory glance of her views. Anyone have cliff notes of her interview?

Anyways... I don't really know about her, but she's right that George Floyd isn't a hero and this BLM movement is a bunch of BS. Let me put it like this, when you deify men like Floyd you set a bad example for the community.

Basically your giving all the hoodrats, chollos, dirtbags/strongmen/whatever, unofficial clearance to keep doing what they're doing. It's kinda like giving the worst elements of society carte blanche. Stuff like this destroys neighborhoods, impedes social mobility by stranding people in those destroyed neighborhoods, and gives criminal elements the justification to keep neighborhoods/people under their thumbs.

Floyd's death and this BLM movement are only serving to separate the black communities from the rest of us. Look at it like this, there is a reason why food desserts exist in the inner city. It's why the only people who do business down there are other blacks and owners of small bodega like stores run by foreigners. Long story short, this is going to further the divide between communities even more.

If you don't believe me check out the author and economist Sudhir Venkatesh and his academic work on the underground economies of the black community. If you want a more entertaining read check out "Gang Leader for a Day".

For those still in denial that this is planned and coordinated, check out the link below in the spoiler cap.


Spoiler: Link to rioters TTP's



Natl Resource List #GeorgeFloyd+


It's a google doc with links and contact info to lawyers, TTP's, first aid info, DA's, bail resources, reasons to loot, ect. All this is being coordinated and these people have a very wide network. For those of you in Fayetteville, Minneapolis, or any affected city, start by checking out the lawyers and legal help section of the document.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 5, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Because he’s right.


Was he upset when Clinton moved Marines into LA during those riots?


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Was he upset when Clinton moved Marines into LA during those riots?


Let’s say yes? Or no. Or who cares how he felt then? The purpose of the letter was to highlight a guy (President) that he’s personally worked for as a member of the admin. A person that he thinks has overstepped his constitutional bounds and has damaged the presidency.

Was the impetus for that non action 25 years ago punitive (he wasn’t allowed) or a personal decision (he didn’t feel the same way about Clinton as the Commander in a Chief)?

My question would be- who cares? Not the time, context or same situation.

For all those that insist that the right doesn’t play “cancel culture” and “you were my hero but you dared oppose the emperor so now you’re my villain”, please see the current reaction to Gen Mattis.

Crazy. When the president appointed him to his position, he was a lifelong patriot. Now he’s not- is it because we learned more about him or is it because he no longer supports our narrative?


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 5, 2020)

I personally don't think sending in AD is the correct response. I also think Mattis needs to face what happened at Theranos.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 5, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> You would think after the highly publicized Eric Garner death that kneeling on someone's neck or chest for too long would be known as lethal force, independent of: *asthma, cardiovascular disease, Covid-19, recent drug use* etc.
> 
> Not a lawyer, but whatever charges they come up with better damn well be provable in a court of law, because like it or not, this cop still has rights.



Every time the family or an outside 'agent' pursues a parallel investigation, if the result is different than the original or other investigations (in this case, ME's report), all it does is give a defense attorney ammunition. 

A friend of mine, former co-worker, used to be an ADA and went into private practice, said the more they have different findings, the more room for non-guilty or acquittal.  

I tell you what is getting to me now is the massive virtue signaling, on social media, at work, everywhere, where it seems to be a race to see who is the most 'un-racist.'


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 5, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Because he’s right.


Was he upset when Clinton moved Marines into LA during those riots?


amlove21 said:


> Let’s say yes? Or no. Or who cares how he felt then? The purpose of the letter was to highlight a guy (President) that he’s personally worked for as a member of the admin. A person that he thinks has overstepped his constitutional bounds and has damaged the presidency.
> 
> Was the impetus for that non action 25 years ago punitive (he wasn’t allowed) or a personal decision (he didn’t feel the same way about Clinton as the Commander in a Chief)?
> 
> ...


I don't see why usung an existing law is a threat to the constitution, unlike weaponizing the DoJ.  I wonder how Mattis feels about that?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I tell you what is getting to me now is the massive virtue signaling, on social media, at work, everywhere, where it seems to be a race to see who is the most 'un-racist.'


I quit Facebook yesterday, the reason was this post you just made.

I had literally typed almost exactly what you just said, and within minutes was getting lit up for my“insensitivite” comments.

I deleted the post, locked down my homepage and vowed never to post again.

The only thing you’ll find there going forward is a picture of me and my email address.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 5, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I personally don't think sending in AD is the correct response. I also think Mattis needs to face what happened at Theranos.


Both of the things are correct.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I quit Facebook yesterday, the reason was this post you just made.
> 
> I had literally typed almost exactly what you just said, and within minutes was getting lit up for my“insensitivite” comments.
> 
> ...



Probably the safe option..

Harvard came out with an implicit bias test that people can take. One of them has to do with light and dark skin people. So many of my friends were all signaling back and forth to each other on how they passed.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Both of the things are correct.



Well.. The mayor is evicting all military from DC hotels now, so I guess people got their wish


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Was he upset when Clinton moved Marines into LA during those riots?


I just want to issue the correction here y'all.  Clinton did not send Active Duty troops into Los Angeles.

Bush Senior was president at the time.  If anything we're significantly behind the timeline of the Rodney King riots and troops should have been deployed in the middle of last week.  We're going on almost two weeks of riots in certain places.  4,000 active duty personnel and 9,000 guard personnel were deployed to Los Angeles on the third day of Riots.

1992 Los Angeles riots - Wikipedia

However, in 1993 Clinton did deploy active duty troops to Waco as part of the siege force on the Branch Davidian compound.  There was a Bradley company involved in the assault, I'd have to look, but I do believe that is the ONLY time crew serves were used against Americans in the last 50 years.

Somehow the insurrection act was not invoked, not sure what authority active duty troops were there.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well.. The mayor is evicting all military from DC hotels now, so I guess people got their wish



She is not evicting. The state of emergency is no longer active. She's asking they go home.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> She is not evicting. The state of emergency is no longer active. She's asking they go home.



You're right. Asking them by having them kicked out of the hotel they were in. 

I'm actually not too familiar with who has jurisdiction in this matter. Who has the legal authority to employ security measures on federal property?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 5, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> She is not evicting. The state of emergency is no longer active. She's asking they go home.


That's not what the protestors are sayin, they want a repeat of the Bolsheviks Bloody Sunday.

Add on: Unless something breaks their spirit, chain of command, or commo, I don't see these people throwing in the towel.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> You're right. Asking them by having them kicked out of the hotel they were in.
> 
> I'm actually not too familiar with who has jurisdiction in this matter. Who has the legal authority to employ security measures on federal property?



The city doesn't need them therefore they don't want to pay for their lodging anymore. Where's the issue with that?


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I don't see why usung an existing law is a threat to the constitution, unlike weaponizing the DoJ.  I wonder how Mattis feels about that?


Huge strawman here but I’ll play your game, because I’m off work today. While Mattis used this as an example, he cities the presidents prior behavior and not just the current situation


Sedition and treason are still laws. Punishable by felonious imprisonment and up to death. So when this administration decides to merk some looters here post-arrest using sedition and treason, we’re cool here? We gonna hang some traitors for treason to make a point to the rest of the populace that protesting- I mean, rioting and looting- won’t be tolerated.

I don’t know how Mattis feels about weaponizong the DoJ. I also don’t know why that matters. I will say, I know exactly how Mattis feels about the president’s 3 years running up to this mess. Remember- he’s not saying the riots are are overstep of the constitution, he said quite clearly that the presidents divisive nature and entire presidency has led to this.

Mattis worked for the president; spent his life in service to a country he loved; quit the admin when he no longer could tolerate the admin’s actions.

You wanna have him prosecuted for his work on Theranos? Fine. I’m sure some internet lawyers I know will lay out an ironclad case- doing yeoman’s work for actual lawyers who don’t seem terribly interested in actual prosecutions.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Both of the things are correct.


And- here’s the weird thing- both can be correct AND if you want to be a grown up, you can call fouls on your own team when they do bad things.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> The city doesn't need them therefore they don't want to pay for their lodging anymore. Where's the issue with that?



I'll have to look into this more. I don't know why a city would be paying for the federal activation of troops. Where would that line of accounting in DTS be? Usually the state will set up a line of accounting and bill the federal side after the fact so that account bureaucracy doesn't get in the way of mobility.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I'll have to look into this more. I don't know why a city would be paying for the federal activation of troops. Where would that line of accounting in DTS be? Usually the state will set up a line of accounting and bill the federal side after the fact so that account bureaucracy doesn't get in the way of mobility.


Weren’t these NG soldiers? Or did I misread?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

I guess people don't actually listen to the POTUS words much.  Because what I'm reading in the media after today's Rose Garden speech are clear lies.  I watched it. 

The Insurrection Act of 1807 is necessary.  Trump should have definitely used it, it should have been invoked last Thursday.  I posted the timeline of what occurred in 1992 above.  In a sense we're well past the period where deploying federal troops will actually aid a situation. 

I also mentioned above the only time you actually saw armored vehicles on the "streets" in an attempt to anything against Americans was in 1993 during the Clinton Administration. The goalposts in this thread seem to have moved. Nothing Trump has done or said would indicate that there would be an armored division sent into a city to quell the violence.

So can we agree that the POTUS is trash, Mattis is trash, and every other dickhead using this moment to score points is also trash?

Now, back to what's really going on out there.  I take you to Buffalo:

Entire BPD Emergency Response Team resigns in support of suspended officers

This obviously looks like cow shit.  WTF?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Weren’t these NG soldiers? Or did I misread?



I'll assume you are asking sincerely. 

I'm guessing my use of "federal activation of troops" is what you're hung up on. Active duty components don't get activated, they are already "active." Comes down to authorities and who's paying. States have sovereignty from each other and can't just send troops into another state without permission. No idea when it comes to DC. I believe the 3500 or so soldiers deployed were on request by the Pentagon, not a governor, so if they are federally activated, they would more likely be in a title 10 capacity and would therefore gain federal benefits. Although the title 10 vs 32 thing might be a little iffy here because you have federally activated title 32 missions in various states, like counter drug and stuff.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 5, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Weren’t these NG soldiers? Or did I misread?



NG is correct.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> NG is correct.



Yeah.. I believe the 82d guys had already been sent home. Think there was supposed to be some from 10th mountain too, but haven't looked into it.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 5, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Weren’t these NG soldiers? Or did I misread?



Utah NG troops to be precise.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Utah NG troops to be precise.


Yeah in that case- the state was ordering the city to foot the bill for the housing- city doesn’t feel like it? Doesn’t seem too crazy to me. Sounds like a state problem.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Utah NG troops to be precise.



Mayor is calling for all out of state guardsmen to leave her city. As far as I know that includes at least Ohio, South Carolina, and Utah. There might be some more though. Saw some pictures of guys that I'm assuming are coming from 19th SFG.

I go back to my question though on who owns the authority for the district? She doesn't even control the DC National Guard, the President does.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jun 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Mayor is calling for all out of state guardsmen to leave her city. As far as I know that includes at least Ohio, South Carolina, and Utah. There might be some more though. Saw some pictures of guys that I'm assuming are coming from 19th SFG.
> 
> I go back to my question though on who owns the authority for the district? She doesn't even control the DC National Guard, the President does.



I believe they govern for local affairs only.

D.C. Home Rule • Council of the District of Columbia


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I quit Facebook yesterday, the reason was this post you just made.
> 
> I had literally typed almost exactly what you just said, and within minutes was getting lit up for my“insensitivite” comments.
> 
> ...



I understand why you did that.  Social media is weaponized in the name of America’s new religion and it’s hard to be on if you’re not willing to literally bend the knee to it.

But for me, FB is something useful and interesting from a business, educational, and social standpoint.  It’s also one of the front lines of the cold civil war that’s raging right now, and I’m not going to be driven from it.  Because that’s what people want: not a rational debate,  not reasonable discussion and disagreement, but capitulation, subjugation, and submission.  

You're a very rational and "centrist" person, and our country needs to hear those kinds of voices right now.  I hope one day you'll reconsider.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 5, 2020)

Seems like a lot of the posts last night got lost to the void,

@R.Caerbannog  We didn't cover that in school, just a cursory course over the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Stalin pushing everyone out. Nothing in depth, do you have recommendations on articles for the stuff you mentioned?

@Florida173 I'm glad they're looking at qualified immunity, it's a shame that no one is talking about it though. I will agree though that I'm worried that people are wanting to effectively remove the polices ability to do their job when it most likely needs proper oversight and training.

@ThunderHorse  I stated before that I'm fully against the actual rioting and looting. But thats not what we're really seeing the majority of right now. Did any of those people I posted about deserve that for exercising their first amendment right? I'm for trying to find reconciliation but don't do it at the expense of my rights.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Seems like a lot of the posts last night got lost to the void,
> 
> @R.Caerbannog  We didn't cover that in school, just a cursory course over the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Stalin pushing everyone out. Nothing in depth, do you have recommendations on articles for the stuff you mentioned?
> 
> ...



I tried to find quickly if SCOTUS already had the question of qualified immunity on the docket, but only found that they had recently refused and now are looking into it. I believe we can probably find something that us citizens feel safe from that immunity, and the LEOs safe from a really litigious citizenry.

What else can be helped from a Federal level? The president has been working on prison reform and been getting a lot of praises from certain black leaders on his efforts. Why are people protesting in front of the White House over the alleged systemic racism that the POTUS didn't bring with him. If there was a voice of the people that could list out some demands and expectations at the Federal level, I would say, yeah.. let's all have that discussion and murderboard the shit out of it for pros/cons, but who's leading this from the BLM and greater movement?


----------



## CQB (Jun 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I quit Facebook yesterday, the reason was this post you just made.
> 
> I had literally typed almost exactly what you just said, and within minutes was getting lit up for my“insensitivite” comments.
> 
> ...


Join the club. One thing is for sure, if you post any view on anything you’ll offend someone somewhere without a doubt.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @ThunderHorse  I stated before that I'm fully against the actual rioting and looting. But thats not what we're really seeing the majority of right now. Did any of those people I posted about deserve that for exercising their first amendment right? I'm for trying to find reconciliation but don't do it at the expense of my rights.



I think many people do not seem to understand how active duty troops would be used.  They would be used much like the National Guard are being used.  They would back up law enforcement and as you've seen the majority of Guard elements have been attached to a Law Enforcement element.  Federal troops don't have the authority to arrest people.  I guess the rhetoric is all crap because we're in such a polarized world.  As I posted earlier, the time for federal troops to be deployed has expired.  That needed to happen over a week ago. The deployment of Federal Troops to Los Angeles in 1992 lasted a week.  Parts of Los Angeles had the National Guard in place for almost a month. 

I'm afraid you haven't read my posts that clearly because I've made several posts showing wtf about police brutality during these protests.  No ones rights should be forfeited.  However, if someone impedes my rights with either attempting to deprive me of my life or property and the police aren't there, and they aren't there in many communities right now, then the citizen will take their arms and protect themselves.  That is the problem we currently face. But this is the third time I've mentioned this.  Is that not a problem set?  Do we want private militias guarding different neighborhoods?  Or do we want to restore order?  Because eventually we will have to restore order or we will have major conflicts in our cities beyond the conflicts some of them had.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I tried to find quickly if SCOTUS already had the question of qualified immunity on the docket, but only found that they had recently refused and now are looking into it. I believe we can probably find something that us citizens feel safe from that immunity, and the LEOs safe from a really litigious citizenry.
> 
> What else can be helped from a Federal level? The president has been working on prison reform and been getting a lot of praises from certain black leaders on his efforts. Why are people protesting in front of the White House over the alleged systemic racism that the POTUS didn't bring with him. If there was a voice of the people that could list out some demands and expectations at the Federal level, I would say, yeah.. let's all have that discussion and murderboard the shit out of it for pros/cons, but who's leading this from the BLM and greater movement?




In terms of protesting the WH I believe it's a combination of 

A.) Who is actually in it right now and the extensive history of  antagonistic comments made by him
B.) It's a symbol of power and 'the system'

The biggest problem and another thing I fear is that there is protesting but no clear and concise goal, yeah the overarching message is to get rid of police brutality, systemic racism, and fix 'the system'. Great, I'm all for reform because there are problems, but all of this is getting us no where because there is no "How", only the end state. 

Every newbie that comes here is told the same thing, focus on the 25m and be honest and clear with yourself on what you want to achieve, it's rock solid advice because it's true. Right now, there is none of that going on, only the end state.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I think many people do not seem to understand how active duty troops would be used.  They would be used much like the National Guard are being used.  They would back up law enforcement and as you've seen the majority of Guard elements have been attached to a Law Enforcement element.  Federal troops don't have the authority to arrest people.  I guess the rhetoric is all crap because we're in such a polarized world.  As I posted earlier, the time for federal troops to be deployed has expired.  That needed to happen over a week ago. The deployment of Federal Troops to Los Angeles in 1992 lasted a week.  Parts of Los Angeles had the National Guard in place for almost a month.
> 
> I'm afraid you haven't read my posts that clearly because I've made several posts showing wtf about police brutality during these protests.  No ones rights should be forfeited.  However, if someone impedes my rights with either attempting to deprive me of my life or property and the police aren't there, and they aren't there in many communities right now, then the citizen will take their arms and protect themselves.  That is the problem we currently face. But this is the third time I've mentioned this.  Is that not a problem set?  Do we want private militias guarding different neighborhoods?  Or do we want to restore order?  Because eventually we will have to restore order or we will have major conflicts in our cities beyond the conflicts some of them had.




I apologize because I haven't read the past few pages since my initial post today. I'll come up with a proper response in a few.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

Thank you Scottsdale PD for getting this asshole.

Jake Paul Faces Charges for Entering Mall That Was Being Looted During Protest


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Seems like a lot of the posts last night got lost to the void,


No worries dude. I'll try to reply in the same as last night. Since you refined your questions, as I ended up responding to all three, I'll refine my answers. 



SaintKP said:


> @R.Caerbannog  We didn't cover that in school, just a cursory course over the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Stalin pushing everyone out. Nothing in depth, do you have recommendations on articles for the stuff you mentioned?


Since the earlier posts were lost to the ether, here are some search terms that'll be of use. Russian Red Guard, Bloody Sunday, October Revolution, Cheka. Start out on the wiki sites and move onward from there, if you end up on a Russian history site be aware that they've sanitized the uglier aspects of that history.

In one of your earlier posts you mentioned the Romanov's. Check out the video below, as the fate of the Romanov's echoed that of their supporters.


Spoiler: Video













SaintKP said:


> @ThunderHorse  I stated before that I'm fully against the actual rioting and looting. But thats not what we're really seeing the majority of right now. Did any of those people I posted about deserve that for exercising their first amendment right? I'm for trying to find reconciliation but don't do it at the expense of my rights.


Like I stated yesterday, these protests we're seeing are a front. This is a coup masquerading as a legitimate protest, using racial overtones as justification. What's being touted as 'reconciliation' is really appeasement. Last night I called out the acts of kneeling and other shenanigans as virtue signaling.

Appeasement is for peasants, kneeling is for serfs. As citizens we're neither.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Like I stated yesterday, these protests we're seeing are a front. This is a coup masquerading as a legitimate protest, using racial overtones as justification. What's being touted as 'reconciliation' is really appeasement. Last night I called out the acts of kneeling and other shenanigans as virtue signaling.




How is this a coup?


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I think many people do not seem to understand how active duty troops would be used.  They would be used much like the National Guard are being used.  They would back up law enforcement and as you've seen the majority of Guard elements have been attached to a Law Enforcement element.  Federal troops don't have the authority to arrest people.  I guess the rhetoric is all crap because we're in such a polarized world.  As I posted earlier, the time for federal troops to be deployed has expired.  That needed to happen over a week ago. The deployment of Federal Troops to Los Angeles in 1992 lasted a week.  Parts of Los Angeles had the National Guard in place for almost a month.
> 
> I'm afraid you haven't read my posts that clearly because I've made several posts showing wtf about police brutality during these protests.  No ones rights should be forfeited.  However, if someone impedes my rights with either attempting to deprive me of my life or property and the police aren't there, and they aren't there in many communities right now, then the citizen will take their arms and protect themselves.  That is the problem we currently face. But this is the third time I've mentioned this.  Is that not a problem set?  Do we want private militias guarding different neighborhoods?  Or do we want to restore order?  Because eventually we will have to restore order or we will have major conflicts in our cities beyond the conflicts some of them had.



We're arguing the same stance but from two different perspectives, do I agree with AD being deployed to help bring order to the country? I don't know, and that's the truth. Yes we need to get things back on track because there are third parties heavily interested in us being discordant. However, in a high tension environment I don't see the act of ordering AD into cities being helpful from a "message" standpoint. I hope it goes smoothly and people slow their collective roll, but and maybe I'm being cynical I don't see that happening. 

In regards to citizen militia's I'm for it. If local LE can't protect you communities need to band together but the problem is the actual rioters and looters, not the people in front of the police line protesting. Crush the rioters and looters, and I mean with extreme prejudice because at this point it's nothing to do with the actual protests, it's about sowing chaos. But, why treat protesters with that same level of violence? I don't see how this is resolved without someones feet getting pissed on.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> We're arguing the same stance but from two different perspectives, do I agree with AD being deployed to help bring order to the country? I don't know, and that's the truth. Yes we need to get things back on track because there are third parties heavily interested in us being discordant. However, in a high tension environment I don't see the act of ordering AD into cities being helpful from a "message" standpoint. I hope it goes smoothly and people slow their collective roll, but and maybe I'm being cynical I don't see that happening.
> 
> In regards to citizen militia's I'm for it. If local LE can't protect you communities need to band together but the problem is the actual rioters and looters, not the people in front of the police line protesting. Crush the rioters and looters, and I mean with extreme prejudice because at this point it's nothing to do with the actual protests, it's about sowing chaos. But, why treat protesters with that same level of violence? I don't see how this is resolved without someones feet getting pissed on.



Are you familiar with Warren v. District of Columbia, because protecting communities gets a bit fuzzy.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 5, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269010515965116416


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

This is the grocery store that I frequent in Tempe. 



All of the windows have been busted out.

I've previously talked about models of Occupation when it comes to pacifying a country and how the WWII model is our successful model that we haven't chosen to replicate post Korea.

People saying that we should not use Active Troops to quell riots and looting aren't paying attention to previous models that "we" have.  Other countries deal with this a little differently, they have active duty riot units.  Specifically in France, Italy, and Spain that fall under national command authority because they have national police forces.  






Listening to this clip from Rogan is interesting. As I've mentioned in several posts we are well past the date to use active duty troops in my view. 1992 showed decisive action by Bush, we deployed 7k active duty troops on Day 3 of the LA Riots. Active Duty and National Guard troops that were partnered with Law Enforcement was how those riots were subdued. We will end up with a body count across the country, but because we've had a heavy police presence we haven't lost a ton of lives. You have to look further into the timeline, on Day 2 of the LA Riots National Guard troops began deployment in LA. 

What we've seen almost everywhere is a lack of leadership and initiative to attempt to stop the violence. 

In five days of riots in Los Angeles 63 civilians were killed, most of them by other civilians. There were close to 3,000 people injured.  It was horrific.   Just as Minneapolis and New York have been horrific.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 5, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog  I disagree strongly that this is a coup. Are there third parties infiltrating protests and planting bricks etc. to incite violence? Yes, definitely and you can easily find it on social media with those same people being caught by the main protesters and immediately being turned into LE. I don't see how the mainline protesters are actively trying to overthrow the American government.

In regards to you comparing whats going on to the October Revolution and the Bolsheviks, I don't see it and feel that it's a definite stretch to label the protesters as such. 

In 1900's Russia you had a ruler that was lazy, inept, and entirely out of touch with his people. Who ruled with an iron fist but would put himself before the country, which had a direct causal effect of populists gaining wide appeal, all because of the heavy handed and out of touch actions that the ruling party put into place to quell uprisings. Oh, wait...

I'm being facetious with that, but just because Antifa has been trying to infiltrate the protests(and starting to fail I might add) and co-op them into something for their end goals, doesn't make this a "marxist uprising" hellbent on the destruction and removal of America. 



Florida173 said:


> Are you familiar with Warren v. District of Columbia, because protecting communities gets a bit fuzzy.




I read that as I was typing this out, I heavily disagree with the courts ruling. But if that's the law..


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 5, 2020)

> Like I stated yesterday, these protests we're seeing are a front. This is a coup masquerading as a legitimate protest, using racial overtones as justification. What's being touted as 'reconciliation' is really appeasement. Last night I called out the acts of kneeling and other shenanigans as virtue signaling.
> 
> Appeasement is for peasants, kneeling is for serfs. As citizens we're neither.



@R.Caerbannog

Show me the proof. Where are the emails and Signal messages you’ve obtained that prove this is a coup.

Show me the proof.

I’m all ears man. Shows us the receipts.

You always post with such certainty. You make bold, often outlandish statements, usually with no proof.

Any proof you do provide, is typically some form of social media- a tweet, a viral video.

No hard facts.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 5, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> @R.Caerbannog
> 
> Show me the proof. Where are the emails and Signal messages you’ve obtained that prove this is a coup.
> 
> ...



3 self-proclaimed members of the far-right 'boogaloo' movement were arrested on domestic terrorism charges for trying to spark violence during protests


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 5, 2020)

How can they be arrested on Domestic Terrorism charges when there is no domestic terrorism statute?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 5, 2020)

Damn this is sad.

‘He could have accomplished so much,’ says family of Howard University engineering student killed in Baltimore last week


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> No worries dude. I'll try to reply in the same as last night. Since you refined your questions, as I ended up responding to all three, I'll refine my answers.
> 
> 
> Since the earlier posts were lost to the ether, here are some search terms that'll be of use. Russian Red Guard, Bloody Sunday, October Revolution, Cheka. Start out on the wiki sites and move onward from there, if you end up on a Russian history site be aware that they've sanitized the uglier aspects of that history.
> ...


what are you smoking? I kneel to no man. Have you been watching a bunch of Monty Python movies during quarantine? you are a conspiracy guy aren’t you? Knock it off on this board


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 5, 2020)

Everyone, stay on topic, and stay civil.

Not an ask.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 5, 2020)

I swear to god we are gassing up the Nickleback bacon... or crayon eaters... shit.

Is @RustyShackleford still around? What the fuck I need an adult.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 6, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @R.Caerbannog  I disagree strongly that this is a coup. Are there third parties infiltrating protests and planting bricks etc. to incite violence? Yes, definitely and you can easily find it on social media with those same people being caught by the main protesters and immediately being turned into LE. I don't see how the mainline protesters are actively trying to overthrow the American government.
> 
> In regards to you comparing whats going on to the October Revolution and the Bolsheviks, I don't see it and feel that it's a definite stretch to label the protesters as such.
> 
> ...


1.) Dude... Nicholas was a reformer. If he had been a bit more heavy handed millions would have been spared the genocidal orgy of violence, famine, and death that were brought on by the Bolsheviks. Hence the reference to the Cheka.

2.) Find the images of the 'protestors' trying to storm the White House, compare them to events of Russia's Bloody Sunday (1905) and the later storming of the Winter Palace (1917).



DasBoot said:


> @R.Caerbannog
> 
> Show me the proof. Where are the emails and Signal messages you’ve obtained that prove this is a coup.
> 
> ...


1.) The people behind this movement (ANTIFA and BLM) are known leftist organizations who've previously worked in conjunction and received public praise and support from members of the DNC. (Check some of the earlier posts for images and links. I've even posted a link to the TTP's these organizations are using.)

2.) ANTIFA has been identified and designated as a Domestic Terrorist Organization.

3.) We've literally had crowds of 'protestors/rioters' try to breach the White House. Multiple Secret Service personnel have been wounded in the clashes and the media is even reporting the President being forced into the WH bunker during this.

4.) Our country has multiple hot spots where the rule of law has broken down and leftist agitators are burning the cities/neighborhoods around them.

5.) Our police forces are overwhelmed. Citizens are literally arming themselves, posting guards on rooftops, and repelling looters and arsonists with force. Communities are having to band together and post guards/watches to keep their respective areas free from looting and arson.

6.) We've essentially had Gen. Milley tell the President we're on our own and that they're not getting involved. This is what leads to autodefensas and groups like Los Pepes when local govt's fail to regain control.
       - Considering the response of some state and local representatives (appeasement) this problem ain't going away any time soon.

7.) The groups carrying these attacks have wide roots and aren't just a US phenomenon. Earlier this year we saw similar tactics used in Canada to shut down their railway networks. These same groups tried using similar operational methods to achieve their political goals.

8.) Our hyper partisan MSM apparatus is currently running full tilt to try and white wash the events playing out across the country and spin them as something they are not.  Mainly the deification of Floyd and the wanton spread of police brutality. Yes there are problems, but nowhere near what's being reported. Check out the FBI's UCR's for further data.

9.) On the TTP's page I linked earlier, check out who and what organizations are bailing these 'protestors' out. You'll find they share similar theme when it comes to political orientation.



Polar Bear said:


> what are you smoking? I kneel to no man. Have you been watching a bunch of Monty Python movies during quarantine? you are a conspiracy guy aren’t you? Knock it off on this board


I'm not smoking anything, I'm in Idaho brother . Apart from watching Quest for the Holy Grail once I haven't been on a Monty Python binge either.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 6, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> 1.) Dude... Nicholas was a reformer. If he had been a bit more heavy handed millions would have been spared the genocidal orgy of violence, famine, and death, that was brought on by the Bolsheviks. Hence the reference to the Cheka.
> 
> 2.) Find the images of the 'protestors' trying to storm the White House, compare them to events of Russia's Bloody Sunday (1905) and the later storming of the Winter Palace (1917).
> 
> ...


Give me links or screen shots of the accounts you have access to that show this is a coordinated revolt/Coup. You can spout bullshit all you want. I want fucking facts.

You see a Red Revolution.

I see a bunch of people who are angry, disillusioned, and unfocused.

You fear the protests and (illegal) looting through a fearful lens because you believeit’s all coordinated. You think someone is in charge.

I view the protests and (illegal) looting through a fearful lens because I realize humans are irrational members of the Great Apes and no one is in charge. No one is calling shots. People are just mad and taking it out in irrational ways.

End state- we both dislike what we see. One of us sees it through their own political skewered lens

The other sees it for the anarchist shot show it is.

I am still waiting for the proof that this is a Deep State coup attempt.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 6, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Give me links or screen shots of the accounts you have access to that show this is a coordinated revolt/Coup. You can spout bullshit all you want. I want fucking facts.
> 
> You see a Red Revolution.
> 
> ...


You are free to find the information for yourself dude. All I can do is share what I've found and hope you come to your own conclusions. In a way, this is a labor of love. I don't gain anything by having such unpopular opinions.

As for what I fear... it's not rioting or looting. I fear what comes after. I fear the mistakes of the past repeated here. I fear for the evolution of our species and the guiding principals we take with us into space. Those are my fears and it's why I look at things the way I do.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 6, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Give me links or screen shots of the accounts you have access to that show this is a coordinated revolt/Coup. You can spout bullshit all you want. I want fucking facts.
> 
> You see a Red Revolution.
> 
> ...



Give me a heads up when the legal looting happens I want to get a nice louis vuitton for the wife.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 6, 2020)

Sigh.  Cool. Have a good night. Thread locked.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 6, 2020)

Open for business.

everyone chill.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 6, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> You are free to find the information for yourself dude. All I can do is share what I've found and hope you come to your own conclusions. In a way, this is a labor of love. I don't gain anything by having such unpopular opinions.


And there in lies the problem with folks who push conspiracy theories.  
Instead of saying, “here’s my proof”, we get “prove I’m not right”, or “it’s all out there for you to find”.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 6, 2020)

I'm not saying I agree with @R.Caerbannog.  But by strict definition a coup does not have to involve the military.  A violent uprising to depose a government can come from its citizens.  I don't think we're there with this at all.  What I do think is several governors, and the president did not act decisively to protect the American people from criminals.  Like Rogan said, you have to put out this fire.

If Governor Walz had immediately deployed the entirety of 1/34 ID rather than just a battalion we'd be in a difference space of time right now.  If Cuomo had done the same with 27th IBCT to NY we'd also be in a different space than we are right now.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 6, 2020)

Molotov cocktail attack on NYPD: court orders defendants taken back into custody

Well there appears to be atleast some justice in the world.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 6, 2020)

The guy was just copying our Prime Minister. 


Man shows up in blackface to Toronto protest and quickly gets arrested by police

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ca...au-blackface-brownface-cbc-explains-1.5290664


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 6, 2020)

That arrest was definitely for his benefit - and there's a reason that sort of conclusion to someone with the nerve to do that happened north of the border.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 6, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> The guy was just copying our Prime Minister.
> 
> 
> Man shows up in blackface to Toronto protest and quickly gets arrested by police
> ...



I read the article.  How was that an arrestable offense?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> And there in lies the problem with folks who push conspiracy theories.
> Instead of saying, “here’s my proof”, we get “prove I’m not right”, or “it’s all out there for you to find”.



Part of the problem is the overabundance and proliferation of any kind of media you want to use that can support or refute your position, all the way from the far left to the far right and back around again. You find enough of information like that you can build your case and argument just as your opponent can do the same to refute.

Obviously the other big part of the problem is being unable to figure out the veracity or the legitimacy of that media or information.  

Shit, forget about politics, just try googling an above ground pool and you can find thousands of articles and blogs and websites to either talk you into one or out of one.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> And there in lies the problem with folks who push conspiracy theories.
> Instead of saying, “here’s my proof”, we get “prove I’m not right”, or “it’s all out there for you to find”.


I've already provided a link to some of the resources and TTP's these guys are using. Everything else is either in this thread or can be found using the site search feature. Anything not here can be found via a quick search on your favorite engine.

Since you seem to want to lump me in with loonies, I'm going to refer you to Yuri Bezmenov and his explanation of ideological subversion. (I feel this is like the 3rd or 4th time this has been posted.)


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 6, 2020)

Everyone take a deep breath, please.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jun 6, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I swear to god we are gassing up the Nickleback bacon... or crayon eaters... shit.
> 
> Is @RustyShackleford still around? What the fuck I need an adult.



@amlove21 These are not the droids you are looking for!

I haven’t had the time or inclination to deal with threads like these, as most of the posters view shit through rose colored lenses and quite honestly don’t know what they’re talking about.

George Floyd, regardless of his criminal Hx and toxicology, is dead and should not be.  Accountability is the game and those turds will be held accountable, as should the people who stood around and watched and/or recorded that incident. There’s a few roads I can go down here but I’ll keep it brief because I only have a few since I’m working again today/tonight.

People are pissed and rightfully so. People need to be held accountable. A good piece of this movement has been co-opted by all kinds of extremists of race creed and color, suburbanites, criminals, etc. I’ve seen it first hand all week. We’ve found all kinds of small caches For bad actors ranging from medical supplies to bats, rocks, Molotov cocktails, gas, etc. Due to the actions of 4 pieces of shit wearing badges, I have to watch my fucking back on the street just like a lot of other dudes in LE who are just trying to make the world a little less shitty.

Those of you who think this is some sort of large scale conspiracy ran by Soros, the Clintons, Masons, whatever, get your fucking T checked and stay off Facebook. Next you’ll be talking about UN troops on our borders.

Back to work. Maybe I’ll get to swap medic patches with a riot medic!


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 6, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I read the article.  How was that an arrestable offense?


There is precedent in Canadian common law that permits police to arrest people when they believe it may prevent a breach of the peace.  The arrests at best would only reflect the safest and quickest way to prevent the breach from happening, but apparently doing something that can incite others to act violently (like wearing heavy make-up in public) can land you in jail.

Yes, this necessarily permits Canadian police officers to target and arrest specific people who haven't even committed a crime yet, and who in fact may be the targets of the predicted crime themselves (as in the case above), for the purpose of quelling the breach as expediently as possible.  At that point it is up to the courts to assign or dismiss penalties to the arrested person.  Also, the courts historically have leaned towards supporting the measures police take in these scenarios rather than heavily scrutinizing their tactical decisions.  This is an interesting point to consider when people in America who disagreed with increasing scrutiny or penalization of American police officers who acted in the spur-of-the-moment meanwhile may support such measures in the Toronto case.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 6, 2020)

Remember that time I quit Facebook for five minutes?






Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Remember that time I quit Facebook for five minutes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lmao there is so much contradiction and idiocy on that statement.

“We support your right to protest and don’t view it as a danger to the public. Unless you’re protesting against us. Then it’s a health risk.”


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Remember that time I quit Facebook for five minutes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You protest when and how we tell you to protest


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Remember that time I quit Facebook for five minutes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's right around the corner, can we get an alien invasion since the comet obviously isn't coming?


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 6, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> It's right around the corner, can we get an alien invasion since the comet obviously isn't coming?
> 
> View attachment 34290


An asteroid the size of the empire state building reportedly just passed us yesterday.  Maybe next time.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 7, 2020)




----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 7, 2020)

‪Today Minneapolis Mayor Frey learned an important lesson. Common sense (reform vs. defunding of MPD) never wins out against PitchFork nation.

You let them burn your city down, but they discard you if you are not 100% aligned with their message.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269441059664396288


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 7, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I read the article.  How was that an arrestable offense?



I believe he was charged with "causing a disturbance". 

Criminal Code


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 7, 2020)

I believe they saved "blackface" from a face full of quick dry cement and/or a few axe handles to the head by "arresting/detaining him.

Gotta give it to Frey, took a huge set of brass clankers to go in there solo, but he still left to the sound of "shame - shame - shame".

GF Memorial a few miles from my house yesterday. I thought it prudent to pay my respects by watching it on the tele. RIP George. Justice is coming.

I'm for the 1st Amendment as long as the protests stay peaceful. The lamestream media are stoking the violence.


----------



## Scarecrow (Jun 7, 2020)

A reasonable demand..


----------



## AWP (Jun 7, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> A reasonable demand..



The hero we need and deserve.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ‪Today Minneapolis Mayor Frey learned an important lesson. Common sense (reform vs. defunding of MPD) never wins out against PitchFork nation.
> 
> You let them burn your city down, but they discard you if you are not 100% aligned with their message.
> 
> ...



That dude is whack.  So looking him up he campaigned on increasing the zoning areas of affordable housing and police reform.  So they increased the budget and purchased a fuck ton of body cams.  But he also cut the budget to training, getting rid of the "warrior" training program. (Whatever that was)  He did not attempt to seek replacing the training block with other types of training or funding community-led safety programs.  

I bet this dude gets recalled. 

Appeasing the mob does you nothing unless the mob is already amenable.  Which the only crowd I've seen amenable anywhere was Flint, MI.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> But he also cut the budget to training, getting rid of the "warrior" training program. (Whatever that was)



"Warrior Training" was created by LTC(R) David Grossman (the guy who wrote On Killing).

The lecture program is designed to get officers to imagine themselves as "knights or superheroes" and anyone in the community as a threat.

This video(comedy/lefty views notwithstanding) highlights a good amount of stuff from these lectures starting at ~6 minutes in.





Here's an article about why Minneapolis got rid of it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> "Warrior Training" was created by LTC(R) David Grossman (the guy who wrote On Killing).
> 
> The lecture program is designed to get officers to imagine themselves as "knights or superheroes" and anyone in the community as a threat.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not saying it was a bad idea to remove that block, just that he failed to address the training issues/lack of training MNPD has.

I wonder if we're going to be dealing with mass protests/riots like Europe does now.  If so, Law Enforcement stuff will have to change significantly including establishment of national riot units that can be deployed on a moments notice.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 7, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> GF Memorial a few miles from my house yesterday. I thought it prudent to pay my respects by watching it on the tele. RIP George. Justice is coming.
> 
> I'm for the 1st Amendment as long as the protests stay peaceful. The lamestream media are stoking the violence.



Yep, it's all over the local news.  I am pleased and proud of our local population that most of the protests have been peaceful.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 7, 2020)

I don't know if I saw it posted here before the  update or somewhere else but I someone described the following and I agree:

Everyone's now in a race to "prove" they're the "least racist" by making meaningless, knee-jerk, "feel good", "politically correct" statements and decisions. It's tantamount to placing a silly black square on IG accounts; they don't really want to do anything but it makes them look/feel good about themselves.

I'm confident my view is not a popular one but this isn't really about racism. This is an issue ignorance from many angles.  Primarily it's an abuse of power by those in authority.  It's manipulating a narrative to tell a story of victimization partial truths.  It's about lack of accountability at various levels.

What I'm about to say next will probably be even less popular.  In terms of race, I'm frustrated with masses jumping on the BLM bandwagon and the various claims of racism and privilege that are so loosely thrown around. To single out strife in one community without recognition of it in others, and especially without acknowledgment of personal accountability, is itself racist.  To paint broad brushes and claim "white privilege", is an inherently racist viewpoint. It's disingenuous. To suggest that one group of people can't possibly understand or have a voice about another group because they're not part of said group is false - these are broad generalizations; we do it all the time with many things.  It's all frustrating.  The viewpoint and the way the discussion is framed is so disingenuous; it's actually more damaging than helpful.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 7, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't know if I saw it posted here before the  update or somewhere else but I someone described the following and I agree:
> 
> Everyone's now in a race to "prove" they're the "least racist" by making meaningless, knee-jerk, "feel good", "politically correct" statements and decisions. It's tantamount to placing a silly black square on IG accounts; they don't really want to do anything but it makes them look/feel good about themselves.
> 
> ...



I mentioned it and I think @Ooh-Rah did as well, I totally agree. I think it's a lot more popular than you think, the problem is I think people are getting bullied by putting that perspective out, so they are not.  Social media has become nothing more than a bully pulpit, and it is just like middle school and junior high all over again.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I mentioned it and I think @Ooh-Rah did as well, I totally agree. I think it's a lot more popular than you think, the problem is I think people are getting bullied by putting that perspective out, so they are not.  Social media has become nothing more than a bully pulpit, and it is just like middle school and junior high all over again.




IMO it's more than that.  It's a new religion, with all of the fervor and violence that comes with it.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 7, 2020)

Bookmarked for later when I can fully flesh out what I want to say in regards to above posts.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

So @Ooh-Rah, time to stock up on ammo!

Minneapolis City Council Members Announce Intent To Disband The Police Department, Invest In Proven Community-Led Public Safety

I don't know much about "The Appeal" as a source, but this is the OP-ED the council member wrote in TIME.

I'm a Minneapolis City Council Member. We Must Disband the Police—Here's What Could Come Next

Also, de-funded police:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269715917732184066


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So @Ooh-Rah, time to stock up on ammo!
> 
> Minneapolis City Council Members Announce Intent To Disband The Police Department, Invest In Proven Community-Led Public Safety
> 
> ...




If something is broke you try and fix it, you save the nuclear option until all other avenues are explored.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So @Ooh-Rah, time to stock up on ammo!
> 
> Minneapolis City Council Members Announce Intent To Disband The Police Department, Invest In Proven Community-Led Public Safety
> 
> ...



I saw nothing about "proven" alternatives to police in either article. 

I did see reference to "street teams" in the second article. That sounds a bit like "gangs" to me. Even if the professed purpose is to descalate a situation, that's hard to do with an armed robber.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 7, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I saw nothing about "proven" alternatives to police in either article.
> 
> I did see reference to "street teams" in the second article.


I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.



I saw that in there, cause you know, that will end well....


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.



I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.

Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?



Also underpaid. You want a social worker revolt?  That's how you get one.


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 7, 2020)

I can't be the only one that wants to see how this dumpster fire plays out, can I? Kind of that, well, you got what you deserved and I'm glad I could be along for the ride so you could see it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 7, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (Jun 7, 2020)

This is what happens when leaders live in a bubble and have never seen what lows humanity is truly capable of. Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Take away the police, and he'll steal it from someone else.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 7, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I can't be the only one that wants to see how this dumpster fire plays out, can I? Kind of that, well, you got what you deserved and I'm glad I could be along for the ride so you could see it.


Nope. I say fuck 'em. 

At this point, I'm grabbing a lawn chair and going to watch this dumpster fire burn.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 7, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.
> 
> Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?



I think we tried something similar in Afghanistan, with the... Sociology Teams? Human Terrain Teams? I forget what we called them.

It didn't work well, because the two groups (sociologists and military) had fundamentally different, and often conflicting, goals, tactics, and perceptions about what they were there to do.  Also, the former was utterly useless without the latter.


----------



## Stretcher Jockey (Jun 7, 2020)

So you're telling me: as an under-paid, under-appreciated, under-funded paramedic working in an inundated and completely overwhelmed medical system, I am also now going to be responsible for being first responder to potentially violent non-medical calls, all while unarmed and lacking training in any kind of defensive tactics besides the sweet soothing sound of my voice?

What the fuck is 2020?


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 7, 2020)

What, you are telling me you don't want that added role?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 7, 2020)

I don't understand how this "disband the police" movement is getting so out of hand.  The reason just about every functional government in the world has one, is because it works.  

As a group, people are greedy, violent, petty, and easily led. If they are not keep in check by the rule of law backed up by the threat of legitimately-employed state violence, they revert to their true nature. Our country is "Exhibit A."

Without a police force, you'll first have individual vigilantes... then small groups... then big groups... then everyone has a group... then some of the big groups unite under a warlord... who then goes around subjugating other warlords (because hegemony is the only way to be legitimately safe).

Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, collectively, are "Exhibit B."

Meanwhile, everyone is reduced to serfdom, because hey, at least we have security. And besides, what are we going to do about it? The Brute Squad is the only ones with money, weapons, and organization.

But over time, a middle class begins to emerge. The Brute Squad doesn't like it, but they like the taxes they can squeeze out of it. And then the middle class begins clamoring for their "rights," especially property rights. And if the Brute Squad and its petty despot leader doesn't grant it to them, they revolt. Or, worse yet, they stop producing things. And then the tax base goes in the toilet, and then it's really hard to pay the Brute Squad or buy those new palaces or shiny swords or tanks or gold crowns, or whatever.

So the middle class starts getting rights, and the Brute Squad starts protecting them, and their property, and then more and more people start climbing out of poverty, and start clamoring for more and more rights. Capitalism and trade kick in, and LOTS of people start making money. And then LOTS of people want these pesky things called "rights," especially property rights. At this point, the government can either become represssive (North Korea) or permissive (UK). But either way, you don't want lots of little fiefdoms with their own militaries, so the government starts consolidating power, and a whole bunch of little Brute Squads become one big Brute Squad.

...and then the Brute Squad isn't the Brute Squad anymore, it's a professional, dedicated, and highly trained police force.

And so we are right back where we started.

If you destroy the police force, or if you "defund" it into ineffectiveness, you destroy the middle class.  Without the middle class, the upper class and lower class will be perpetually at war with each other, until the lower class overthrows (and becomes) the upper class, or the upper class repressses and enslaves the lower class.


----------



## CQB (Jun 7, 2020)

The other alternative outcome will be similar to the favelas in Brazil, where the crooks provide the safety & security in certain areas. Nice.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

Interestingly people try to talk about Camden, NJ, reform of their police as some sort of shining light.  Camden had a peaceful protest. 

Camden used to be one of the most dangerous cities to live in, in America.  But hello...going from 67 Murders in 2012 to 25 in 2019 is something to be proud of...but that is still a horrible number.  I supposed going from 1 per 1k residents to 1 per 3k residents is great, but that is not SAFE.  Camden disbanded their police force and reformed their police force and then contracted services to the county.  The county police force then tripled in size.

The City That Remade Its Police Department

But if anyone says that is a pure model to follow, I'd disagree.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 7, 2020)

Minneapolis shares it’s new Police Dept.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Camden disbanded their police force and reformed their police force and then contracted services to the county.  The county police force then tripled in size.


That's what I expect to occur with Minneapolis as well. 

@Ooh-Rah, this is why legislation is needed right now to prevent even one dime of taxpayer money from anyone outside of Minneapolis, especially Hennepin County, from being used to cover increased policing costs incurred by other agencies, such as Hennepin County Sheriff's Office or Minnesota State Patrol, to cover Minneapolis' stupidity.



Ooh-Rah said:


> Minneapolis shares it’s new Police Dept.
> 
> View attachment 34305


That's what I think about as well...

Iraq's militias, Afghan tribes, Somali warlords, Autodefensas in Mexico...

The list of successes is virtually endless...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 7, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> That's what I expect to occur with Minneapolis as well.
> 
> @Ooh-Rah, this is why legislation is needed right now to prevent even one dime of taxpayer money from anyone outside of Minneapolis, especially Hennepin County, from being used to cover increased policing costs incurred by other agencies, such as Hennepin County Sheriff's Office or Minnesota State Patrol, to cover Minneapolis' stupidity.


In these situations in general, the municipality will contract services to the county.  In LA county you have several municipalities that contract service agreements for both fire and Law Enforcement.  Most of those municipalities tend to be under 50k people though.  LA County FD wouldn't really exist if municipalities that contract them had their own FDs and the Sheriff's department would actually be very small overall.  In a lot of places the Sheriff's do limited Law Enforcement.

And it's been done.  What a group of idiots.

Nine member majority of Minneapolis City Council announce support for dismantling MPD

ETA: We previously discussed how the other officers were charged.  We didn't know what with.  Well, all four dudes are charged with 2nd Degree Murder and 2nd Degree manslaughter.  They're gonna walk.

Who are the Four Officers Involved with the George Floyd In-Custody Death?


----------



## Muppet (Jun 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interestingly people try to talk about Camden, NJ, reform of their police as some sort of shining light.  Camden had a peaceful protest.
> 
> Camden used to be one of the most dangerous cities to live in, in America.  But hello...going from 67 Murders in 2012 to 25 in 2019 is something to be proud of...but that is still a horrible number.  I supposed going from 1 per 1k residents to 1 per 3k residents is great, but that is not SAFE.  Camden disbanded their police force and reformed their police force and then contracted services to the county.  The county police force then tripled in size.
> 
> ...



Ehhh. Camden is still a fucking shithole. I've been there, not to long ago, have a few friends that are paramedics there, one was one of my groomsmen, always in the news but yeah, they moved from a city police dept to Camden County Police but it's still full of scallywag hoodlums with good people stuck there, just like Philly, across the river.


----------



## 11Bull (Jun 8, 2020)

When you vote Democrat and suddenly your police department disappears 🤣
God bless Mr. Trump and real america.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 8, 2020)

11Bull said:


> When you vote Democrat and suddenly your police department disappears 🤣
> God bless Mr. Trump and real america.


Sad thing is the people fleeing those areas are gonna bring their idiocy along with them. Hence red areas becoming increasingly blue by outsiders. Never mind the conditioning local kids are receiving at school and on social media. 

Unless we can figure out how to shift the culture... this idiocy and it's well intentioned morons will sink the rest of us.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 8, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I've seen that, and honestly it doesn't sound like a completely bad idea on its face to send people who actually have some training in that, but as @Kaldak just referenced; you still need somebody able to control the situation if shit goes sideways.
> 
> Why not keep police but focus more on training them with basic psych/med knowledge to attempt to control situations, as opposed to sending out some unarmed social worker?



Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression police at all levels already *have* that training / basic psych, basic first aid plus critical care, deescalation & crowd control?

Personally can't see anything good coming out of that decision / line of thinking.

As in even the social worker in hot zones would need military equipment and training - training that takes way fucking more focus, years, and experience than the social work one.

Or - that sort of works... in countries like Albania - where even the social workers are, essentially, soldiers, and armed and well trained. Until it doesn't. All of you who worked Balkans probably get the mess I'm alluding to.

So... yah. No idea who brought that 'disband that PD' decision forward, but I think unflattering things about their IQ.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 8, 2020)

At the risk of putting good friends @Ooh-Rah and @Blizzard in perilous positions, fuck it, let them (de-fund and do away with MPD).  Sit back and watch the ensuing anarchy.  Cogent thought escapes me due to my blinding rage at these people, their fucking illogical and irrational arguments.  I bet that fucking city council is also screaming for legislation for gun control.  Sorry, bitches, you can't have it both ways.

@Ooh-Rah , @Blizzard , you are welcome in NC.  We have our share of problems, but we don't have two things:  1) Minneapolis, and 2) snow.

@policemedic , once upon a time I was part of NC's first community paramedic program.  A lot of that was social work, and we hated it.  "Real" 911 calls were stacked as we tried to manage getting prescription refills taken care of.  Since then it's been refined and it's now successful in a lot of places, but not my cup of tea.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.


I have no words. Who the fuck wants _that_ job?!  Do you want to see people get hurt, because that's how people get hurt.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 8, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Sad thing is the people fleeing those areas are gonna bring their idiocy along with them. Hence red areas becoming increasingly blue by outsiders. Never mind the conditioning local kids are receiving at school and on social media.
> 
> Unless we can figure out how to shift the culture... this idiocy and it's well intentioned morons will sink the rest of us.


 The Right needs to embrace the liberal arts. The Left dominates the mainstream culture with Books,movies,games,etc. The right likes to make fun of such things it seems but those things are the ones who shape the minds of youth and others. The right must tell their stories and show their cause and it must be through the arts.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 8, 2020)

I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy. 

As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy.
> 
> As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.


Yes politics should stay out of art but unfortunately it’s not and often it’s a leftist message in that art


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 8, 2020)

This is great, what an idiot group of city council members.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269951088964370432


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> The Right needs to embrace the liberal arts. The Left dominates the mainstream culture with Books,movies,games,etc. The right likes to make fun of such things it seems but those things are the ones who shape the minds of youth and others. The right must tell their stories and show their cause and it must be through the arts.





Jaknight said:


> Yes politics should stay out of art but unfortunately it’s not and often it’s a leftist message in that art


You're right dude. Sigh... when it comes to the culture wars the more conservative elements of our society are at a definite disadvantage. Sadly the information, entertainment, and education sectors, haven't been in our domain since the counter cultural revolution. Even when the more socially conservative elements to try to break into those fields they find little success.

On the other hand, harsh truths posted as pictograms have seen a resurgence at the hands of social conservatives. The comics of yesteryear have turned into memes and have become an effective medium for showing the failings and hypocrisy of liberal ideologies. Good examples of these memes range from 2A themes, hairdressers getting arrested / rioters roaming free, and even political corruption.



Florida173 said:


> I don't think an oversimplification of a left/right dichotomy is even helpful in this conversation. Plays into a false narrative that there are no voting republicans out there protesting against police brutality; and therefor, are obvious racists. There are very few people that watched any part of what happened to George Floyd with apathy.
> 
> As far as culture, not everyone needs to bring their political leanings into their art. When they do, I can dismiss it as propaganda and not a true expression in good faith.


You're also right. More in the way that propaganda in art is not an expression of good faith. Even though the deification and art that surrounds Floyd's death is ultimately a sham, it's been used masterfully to create an 'us vs them' narrative. No one in their right mind would call Floyd's deification art, but somehow the fate of a criminal has caused cities to burn and people to rally behind him as a saint.

For being false art that stuff is pretty powerful. Scares me when I think about it.


----------



## Raptor (Jun 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Yes politics should stay out of art


I disagree, not every piece of art needs to be political and a lot of times it is forced, but while I obviously can't speak for everyone, some of my favorite movies, games and songs/bands have had some underlying political elements and been enhanced by it (Star Wars, Fallout and System of a Down are some examples).


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 8, 2020)

Local police are putting Minneapolis on warning...

With threat of Minneapolis police being disbanded, Anoka County sheriff says 'many agencies' don't want to go back to the city and restore order | Bring Me The News


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 8, 2020)

You want the police abolished, show them what happens? Is that the tactic here?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 8, 2020)

Manufacturer that burned as Minneapolis protests turned violent plans to relocate from city

I think there's a song for this:


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 8, 2020)

Figured this fits in this thread or the all politics thread. It's about the weather underground and their goals for the US. These are the ideological founders behind movements like ANTIFA and the BLM.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 8, 2020)

I try and stay out of politics, that is why I am an Independent, but have you noticed that ever city that had riots were Democrats and have been Demo for centuries. They are also the same ones that want to disband the police. Must be something there that their citizens are not paying attention to.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 9, 2020)

It's more complex than just a base level of whether its a red or blue city. You have underfunded and under supported Police Departments in a lot of these cities, often fighting an up hill battle with the governing bodies of said cities, naturally this leads to a lower quality of prospects because for one no one wants to work a job where their bosses hate them. Not to mention they can't receive the proper training to deal with things whether it be a high intensity situation and how to deescalate, or something as simple as decompressing and working through personal issues after a rough patrol. This leads to the a LEO who shouldn't be in a split second decision situation where someones life is at stake, nor can they effectively know when to pump the brakes and realize that maybe they passed excessive force about a minute ago and you're cruising headfirst into police brutality. 

Now onto the constituents of a lot of these cities, a vast majority are low income, and a majority of which happen to be minorities. A lot of these people are coming into a system where the likelihood of them 'getting out' is so damn slim that most will turn to illegal activities once they come of age because working fast food sure as hell doesn't pay the bills. Now because of how our prison and justice system are setup, it's not made for reform, it's made for incarceration and to hobble you for the rest of your life. So a lot of these guys by the age of 20 have most likely been in and out of the system. Either on diversion, straight up juvie, or worst case scenario prison/jail. What options do they have coming out, realistically, aside from crime do they have? Fast food won't hire if you have a felony, construction and factory work? That's not a guarantee and most won't be able to get into it unless they have an inside guy. 

While there are community programs that specifically take in ex convicts and people with criminal history that are looking for work and they do an amazing job with helping those people get back on their feet. But to put it simply, there isn't enough of those organizations to really make an impact. 

So you have a judicial system whose aim is to arrest as many people as possible to fill out prisons, but not reform any of them. So they more often than not go back to crime. Which leads LE to specifically target those neighborhoods they deem 'High Risk' and the cycle continues. Leading to mistrust and resentment from the populace, as well as the police treating certain groups much more aggressively than others because of the past criminal history of said populace. 

Let this cycle continue for 100+ years and you eventually get what we saw in Minneapolis. 

There are a bunch of problems that lead to what happened, but two of the largest I'd say is Police funding and training as well as judicial reform. While there's progress being made, no one wants to really have that tough conversation and sit down at the table to hash everything out.  How long until the next 'big one'? 1 year?


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 9, 2020)

De-fund, disband, and sit back in disbelief.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 9, 2020)

*“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.”

― Milton Friedman *


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

*This is becoming a National conversation and should probably have it’s own thread. *
_*
The George Floyd thread will continue for months with discussion of court proceedings and eventual verdict. *_
*
I’ll move “cop” related posts throughout the morning*.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

*Any posts related to “disbanding police departments” can now be found in its own thread.  

Future “Disband the Cops” thread*


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 9, 2020)

It's spread to Canada as well.  Toronto is the biggest city I've seen talk about it and they already had a 20% budget decrease in recent year's.  I find it ironic that the programs they want to divert funding have been asking for money for year's.   Maybe if they took a pay cut to fund these other program's as well as funding law enforcement properly.

'Defund the police' movement gathers momentum in Canada


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

Watching the Liberal Left fight over who is the most enlightened and least-racist is becoming almost Sports-like entertainment.  I'm surprised he didn't make it yet one more "executive order" and just assume that "One Minnesota" would follow along.....


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 9, 2020)

George Floyd's death has become a catalyst for an international conversation related to police. I wouldn't have split the conversation.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> George Floyd's death has become a catalyst for an international conversation related to police. I wouldn't have split the conversation.


Agreed.  But there are some topics that end up becoming 2 seperate conversations within the same thread and then become difficult to follow; as sometimes you cannot tell which topic a member is referring to when you want to reply.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 9, 2020)

This is an example of a minority viewpoint getting much more attention than it deserves.  Not sure how or why they're getting attention; probably because it's an election year?! 

If you believe polls (take your pick), none show more than ~15% support cuts to police funding, let alone disbanding.  The only purpose I really see the discussion serving is to call out the most ridiculous of politicians; seems most are local, except for maybe AOC.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.  

Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.
> 
> Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police



You think this enables or creates another BLA movement like in the 70s?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> You think this enables or creates another BLA movement like in the 70s?


I don't know.  I know that the New Black Panthers were already armed.



SaintKP said:


> So you have a judicial system whose aim is to arrest as many people as possible to fill out prisons, but not reform any of them. So they more often than not go back to crime. *Which leads LE to specifically target those neighborhoods they deem 'High Risk' and the cycle continues.* Leading to mistrust and resentment from the populace, as well as the police treating certain groups much more aggressively than others because of the past criminal history of said populace.
> 
> Let this cycle continue for 100+ years and you eventually get what we saw in Minneapolis.



Disagree.  In the current clime you have Law Enforcement withdrawing their presence from "high risk" areas and that is how you end up with the neighborhoods in Baltimore, Chicago, Cincinnati, Detroit where crime runs the ville.  Because the DA will campaign on "reform" but actually puts their cops at risk with their policies. Since the Freddie Gray Riots, Baltimore has cut police funding (and number of officers) and the violent crime rate and murder rate has climbed on a per capita basis as people have fled the city.  Look at Detroit as an example, it's basically a dead city.  Baltimore specifically has 150k less people than it did in 2015.

Now, many Democrats enacted really shitty policies when it came to crime over time.  In the late 90s, early 2000s it was about being tough on crime.  Martin O'Malley led this in Baltimore.  If anything it made everything worse.  But hey it got him elected governor and onto the national stage.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Nice to see Armed elements of BLM out in the open.
> 
> Black Lives Matter leader declares war on police



I'm not saying there aren't armed nutjobs in and around more than BLM black movements....

But The Daily Mail in my eyes reaally lacks credibility as a source.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> I'm not saying there aren't armed nutjobs in and around more than BLM black movements....
> 
> But The Daily Mail in my eyes reaally lacks credibility as a source.



It's a real source, yes, they're sensational, but they are credible. It's also not behind a paywall.  But here's another from a separate interview last week.

Tomi Lahren spoke to Black Lives Matter leader calling for armed patrols to counter police brutality


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> But The Daily Mail in my eyes reaally lacks credibility as a source.


What I like about DailyMail is that they often cover the US better and deeper than most American papers.  

That said, their grammar and editing is atrocious, and yes, they sometimes rush so much they run into accuracy issues.

On the whole though, if you see it on DailyMail, there is likely “something” to it and other legit sites are going to be forced to at least investigate it.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> On the whole though, if you see it on DailyMail, there is likely “something” to it and other legit sites are going to be forced to at least investigate it.



Yeah I can appreciate *that* value, just on this particular report, not even sure it makes much of 'news'.

I mean there were off-shoots of BLM say in 2015 on Twitter, all very public, same declarations and posturing. And nothing came out of it, not even in social media sphere much less physical illegal acts. It was just that, some guys with wishful thinking and lots of posturing.

All I'm saying even with as full of tension as the current atmosphere is, not all calls to arms are actionable, and may not be on par with say, when the fricking ISIS makes similar calls to arms on Youtube, Twitter, FB or wherever else *these* degenerates parade their 'successes' these days.

I might hand round donuts in case I stepped on toes with the jihadis mention overall.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Chicago lawmakers pissed at each other: Chicago mayor and alderman exchange profanities over concerns about looters in leaked audio


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 9, 2020)

So, what do we think...2 months, max, before "we" completely move on and virtually stop talking about this story? 

That seems to be the total attention span these days, although 2020 has been pretty spectacular so far, with a new crisis monthly.  Nonetheless, this story may've peaked too soon for leftists hoping for change in the fall election...


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's a real source, yes, they're sensational, but they are credible. It's also not behind a paywall.  But here's another from a separate interview last week.
> 
> Tomi Lahren spoke to Black Lives Matter leader calling for armed patrols to counter police brutality



But still, that cites a NY chapter. I.e. may not reflect other cities' communities at all.

IME how even communities of color respond to which calls is super specific to the culture of the concrete cities. Just because it may reach even other East Coasters doesn't mean say West Coast'll be down with that.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 9, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270375353614123010
Nice.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 9, 2020)

I can see it now. Disband the police so now the blacks form their own police force not allowing any other race in their territories. The whites do the same. The Hispanics do the same, as do the Asians. Not counting the Somali's neighborhoods, etc. After all we can't allow anyone not of our race living among us. So who better to head up those protectors than the local gang because they are better armed. Think it can't happen? The way things are going now who would be able to stop it.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 9, 2020)

Balkanization.  We've been headed here for almost 200 years.  

My little village of about about 260,000 is talking about the same thing.  The city councilwoman quoted in the article is an idiot, first class, with multiple awards.  

Defunding police part of discussion for Durham, as council votes on new budget :: WRAL.com

Our cops are far from perfect, but it's a good department.  When I was a medic I was a team medic on the tactical team, which is a great and active team.  That said, they did the lion's share of making downtown safe, which it used to not be.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 9, 2020)

Reminds me, anything like the maybe old fashioned home guards, hood watches of vets or anybody else, and the like against these clowns?

I mean in the US comparatively to Europe soo many people serve (d) and y'all know your homes' needs so order should be doable?

That said, I *do* acknowledge / respect people have their own wives and families and health needs and what not, than be yet asked to deal with people who just want to wreck havoc.

Just wondering of actions that can be taken if & when the official representatives are too out of it or disinterested in serving their citizens.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

This is awful powerful stuff; I highly recommend you watch - 
Truthfully, I cannot state for fact everything she describes is 'the way it is', but SHE obviously believes it to be true, and if that's the case, then that is important too.

- "Language" at the end...just fair warning.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269906584496271361


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, what do we think...2 months, max, before "we" completely move on and virtually stop talking about this story?
> 
> That seems to be the total attention span these days, although 2020 has been pretty spectacular so far, with a new crisis monthly.  Nonetheless, this story may've peaked too soon for leftists hoping for change in the fall election...




Everyone wants change, but no one wants to work hard or long enough to enact it.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 9, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Everyone wants change, but no one wants to work hard or long enough to enact it.


It is an election year.


----------



## Rapid (Jun 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So @Ooh-Rah, time to stock up on ammo!
> 
> Minneapolis City Council Members Announce Intent To Disband The Police Department, Invest In Proven Community-Led Public Safety
> 
> ...



The Met are far from de-funded (yet they could also do with far more funding if you ask me, but it's not going to happen). Those officers all have full kit nearby. The only reason they are not wearing all that kit is some fucking coward of a supervisor has decided it looks too 'oppressive' and no one in the chain of command has the common fucking decency to put the lives and welfare of the officers under their direct command before their own sycophantic obsession with kissing the higher ups' collective comfortable arseholes.

I'm not joking or opinionating by the way. It's an actual strategy which is in use across almost all of the UK. Most police commanders are spineless career chasers who don't allow their officers to put on full riot gear until _after _the violence has already started. Even then, the padded gear goes on *under the uniform*. Again, because it looks too 'oppressive' if you've got all those pads on you.

Something coming your way in some cities no doubt, if things continue like this.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is awful powerful stuff; I highly recommend you watch -
> Truthfully, I cannot state for fact everything she describes is 'the way it is', but SHE obviously believes it to be true, and if that's the case, then that is important too.
> 
> - "Language" at the end...just fair warning.
> ...


She's ignorant as hell but, agree, I'm sure she believes every word. Typical victim mentality and no personal accountability.  Excuses at every turn.  Any bets on whether she favors reparations as well? 

Does she think only black people struggle? It's not possible that most of us face hurdles in our lives?  That these aren't particularly unique. That most aren't in the top 5%. She fails to recognize all those minorities that owned and worked at those businesses they destroyed.  She fails to recognize the success those willing to put in their work have achieved.  Does she care about Native American, Asian, Latino communities as well?  How about the work they put in...or do only "black lives matter"? 

Nah, she and those like her can go fuck herself.  Hope she enjoys living in the burned out community and house with nothing that she helped create.  Then she'd have accountability.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 9, 2020)

Hell with it, disband them and let's kick this civil war off already. I'm getting bored waiting on it...🙄🤣


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 9, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't understand how this "disband the police" movement is getting so out of hand.  The reason just about every functional government in the world has one, is because it works.
> 
> As a group, people are greedy, violent, petty, and easily led. If they are not keep in check by the rule of law backed up by the threat of legitimately-employed state violence, they revert to their true nature. Our country is "Exhibit A."
> 
> ...


Can I steal this and post to my FB feed?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is awful powerful stuff; I highly recommend you watch -
> Truthfully, I cannot state for fact everything she describes is 'the way it is', but SHE obviously believes it to be true, and if that's the case, then that is important too.
> 
> - "Language" at the end...just fair warning.
> ...


I tried.  She sounds very genuine.  But she seems to be totally ok with tearing down her own community, destroying black owned businesses, for what? Look at all of the cities that these have taken place in, who's in charge? Who are they voting for?

Interesting stuff, but Looters and Rioters need to go to prison. But she failed to mention the murderers.  Because there have been murders during these riots.

ETA:  I posted this in the de-funding police thread but it should also be here as well.  



ThunderHorse said:


> Update on that one, here's a few articles on it.
> 
> SPD preparing to abandon East Precinct if necessary
> 
> ...



We've previously discussed on this thread about the law enforcement response, and what should be done, should there be active duty troops used, etc.  Well, this kind of shit is how you have forces you to literally go back in and retake the facility, or you end up completely withdrawing and it gets nasty.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270375353614123010
> Nice.



Update on that one, here's a few articles on it.  

SPD preparing to abandon East Precinct if necessary

Antifa Seizes Seattle PD, Sets Up 'Autonomous Zone' Just Like ISIS and the Paris Commune

Moving trucks at the East Precinct as SPD announces it will reopen Capitol Hill streets — UPDATE

This is how you end up having to actually fight people.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is awful powerful stuff; I highly recommend you watch -
> Truthfully, I cannot state for fact everything she describes is 'the way it is', but SHE obviously believes it to be true, and if that's the case, then that is important too.
> 
> - "Language" at the end...just fair warning.
> ...


Lucky Black People want equality not revenge? Is she serious? Good job give the White Supremacist more fuel for his propaganda


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 9, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Can I steal this and post to my FB feed?



Yes, but if you wait a day or two "an anonymous author with a writing style similar to mine" will have  more-thought-out article about this on The Havok Journal.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

So....somebody wears cornrows or dreadlocks and they are accused of "cultural appropriation". 
Nancy and her minions wear Kente cloth and they are....?  The pandering and hypocracy of these folks just never ends. 

Not to mention...what's the deal with the kneeling? Americans do not kneel.  They did not kneel to the Brits, the Nazis, or The Russians during the Cold War.  American's kneel to no man, period.  Kneeling is a form of submission, to what or to whom exactly, are these American leaders submitting to?

 (for the record I consider NFL players "taking a knee" during the Anthem completely different)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Homicides this week have increased 250% in L.A. compared to last week, LAPD says

Things getting hairy in LA.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So....somebody wears cornrows or dreadlocks and they are accused of "cultural appropriation".
> Nancy and her minions wear Kente cloth and they are....?  The pandering and hypocracy of these folks just never ends.
> 
> Not to mention...what's the deal with the kneeling? Americans do not kneel.  They did not kneel to the Brits, the Nazis, or The Russians during the Cold War.  American's kneel to no man, period.  Kneeling is a form of submission, to what or to whom exactly, are these American leaders submitting to?
> ...



I want to preemptively add this caveat- I cant stand Nancy Pelosi. She’s a terrible leader. I have zero love for the Democrats.

With that said-

the whole “kneeling” symbolism here is no different than kneeling during the national anthem. It’s all a protest against police brutality.

I don’t see the overall relation to “taking a knee” and our past interactions with foreign powers.

You know I enjoy your point of view, but I’m not seeing the major issue here. Other than the fact it’s been done by a bunch of politicians who are obviously pandering.

ETA- I also agree about the cloths. That’s lame, and adds to the pandering nature of the photo op.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 9, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> the whole “kneeling” symbolism here is no different than kneeling during the national anthem. It’s all a protest against police brutality.





DasBoot said:


> You know I enjoy your point of view, but I’m not seeing the major issue here. Other than the fact it’s been done by a bunch of politicians who are obviously pandering.


Maybe I went over the top on the 'kneeling to other nations' bit, but I think it takes away from the kneeling that athletes do during The Anthem.  Their 'taking a knee' is personal to them.  What the Dems did here was staged and essentially makes a mockery of the folks who are truely trying to make a statement.

In my humble opinion, as they say.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 9, 2020)

I think what Ooh-Rah was trying to point out is that this was all staged. I can Picture it now: Nancy puts the word out that everyone is to go find or buy a Kente cloth and we will meet at x-time. Make sure the photographer is on hand. Now lets make sure the cloth is hanging just right. All drop at the same time. Great picture, publish it.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 9, 2020)

Teargas is the only thing distinguishing kneeling in a kente you never wear from holding up a Bible you never read.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Chicago Mayor begging for companies to stay after failing to protect against riots and looters.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270519996997926913


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

That kneeling against police brutality is a dumb stunt. We literally have one of the better policing apparatus's on the planet. What's sad is how black on black crime hurts these communities way more than some bad apple cops. Too bad attention whores like kapernik and the frauds in the BLM give cover for the worst elements of those communities.

This movement is a fraud. I hope the organizers of this BS pay a heavy toll for what they've done to our nation.


----------



## Bypass (Jun 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So....somebody wears cornrows or dreadlocks and they are accused of "cultural appropriation".
> Nancy and her minions wear Kente cloth and they are....?  The pandering and hypocracy of these folks just never ends.
> 
> Not to mention...what's the deal with the kneeling? Americans do not kneel.  They did not kneel to the Brits, the Nazis, or The Russians during the Cold War.  American's kneel to no man, period.  Kneeling is a form of submission, to what or to whom exactly, are these American leaders submitting to?
> ...


I bow before no man but the SON of GOD and GOD himself. 

I think it is ironic that kneeling killed George Floyd and that's all these imbeciles want to do.


----------



## Bypass (Jun 10, 2020)

Yes I'm an insensitive prick but at least I'm honest about it. I'm sure if George made it to Heaven he's looking down saying what a bunch of dumbasses.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

The Current SHITUATION in Seattle. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270314517814104069

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270307129207881729
They're armed and they're patrolling.  To protect the people of course.  Literally no different from the gang or dirty cops forcing businesses to pay for protection


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Current SHITUATION in Seattle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270314517814104069
> ...


Assclowns, one and all.


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Current SHITUATION in Seattle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270314517814104069
> ...



Eh, wonder how long it takes to start collecting taxes from the locals.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 10, 2020)

Pelosi and gang kneeling is the epitome of being out of touch. Maybe.. just maybe.. her time in office for the last 40 years could give her a little ownership of this so called system in the systemic racism part that they are all calling for?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Current SHITUATION in Seattle.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270314517814104069
> ...


Eastern WA would probably celebrate if Seattle and those idiots all burned.


GOTWA said:


> Eh, wonder how long it takes to start collecting taxes from the locals.


They already did via the seizure of goods earlier in the riots. 

It's like those idiots want to kick off a civil war. Arson, murder, rioting, looting, and the establishment of their own little leftist fiefdoms is getting old.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Maybe I went over the top on the 'kneeling to other nations' bit, but I think it takes away from the kneeling that athletes do during The Anthem.  Their 'taking a knee' is personal to them.  What the Dems did here was staged and essentially makes a mockery of the folks who are truely trying to make a statement.
> 
> In my humble opinion, as they say.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Eastern WA would probably celebrate if Seattle and those idiots all burned.


Nope.  We would not.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Nope.  We would not.


I think we travel in very different socioeconomic circles. Especially considering how the politics of that area have disenfranchised the rest of the state.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 10, 2020)

I grew up in eastern Washington.  There’s some decent parts around, but you could donate it to northern Idaho and I don’t think it would be missed.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> I grew up in eastern Washington.  There’s some decent parts around, but you could donate it to northern Idaho and I don’t think it would be missed.


Like I said, we travel in very different socioeconomic circles. If Seattle and it's ideals were so great people wouldn't be fleeing it.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Like I said, we travel in very different socioeconomic circles. If Seattle and it's ideals were so great people wouldn't be fleeing it.


Or you’re just wrong, and what you consider your “socioeconomic” group of friends is just an echo chamber...

Seattle is a cool city. Beautiful. Plenty of decent people. Plenty of idiots. Same as Austin, Gainesville, Boston, Savannah... every other American city. None of which I “want to see burn.”

You rant about the left tearing the country apart. Maybe it’s not just them. Maybe you’re part of the problem, with your demonization of your fellow citizens.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Or you’re just wrong, and what you consider your “socioeconomic” group of friends is just an echo chamber...
> 
> Seattle is a cool city. Beautiful. Plenty of decent people. Plenty of decent idiots. Same as Austin, Gainesville, Boston, Savannah... every other American city. None of which I “want to see burn.”
> 
> You rant about the left tearing the country apart. Maybe it’s not just them. Maybe you’re part of the problem, with your demonization of your fellow citizens.



I don't know about "burning" but many many many people in most of the state do not agree with the policies of Olympia and Seattle as seen by the amount of Sheriffs that openly do not enforce the new gun laws.

Update to the Seattle Shituation. A Councilwoman decided to open up City Hall to protesters last night.

Seattle protesters storm City Hall, demand mayor resign after driving police out of area, declaring autonomous zone


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't know about "burning" but many many many people in most of the state do not agree with the policies of Olympia and Seattle as seen by the amount of Sheriffs that openly do not enforce the new gun laws.


Then say that. I’m tired of the hyperbole.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 10, 2020)

I feel like a lot of folks that live in Seattle have some serious cognitive dissonance. Driving around and immediately seeing how bad their homelessness problem is and being told that they don't think there's a problem. The place is a cesspool for growing fringe groups like Antifa/Occupy/Black Bloc. Cool city? sure..


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Then say that. I’m tired of the hyperbole.



General question, how many of you have previously said "Can't wait for California to fall into the sea in the next Earthquake".  It's a pretty similar sentiment with that, a bit more serious without an /s or an emoji for sure.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Or you’re just wrong, and what you consider your “socioeconomic” group of friends is just an echo chamber...
> 
> Seattle is a cool city. Beautiful. Plenty of decent people. Plenty of idiots. Same as Austin, Gainesville, Boston, Savannah... every other American city. None of which I “want to see burn.”
> 
> You rant about the left tearing the country apart. Maybe it’s not just them. Maybe you’re part of the problem, with your demonization of your fellow citizens.


There's a difference between socioeconomic and social circles.

As for 'burn', I should have specified to the idiocy going on in the 'CHAZ' area and the permissive idiots that let Seattle fester. State is effectively held hostage by leftist citiot politicians.

Arson, rioting, looting, killing, etc, over a farce makes for a dim view of my 'fellow citizens'. A better term for them would be useful idiots.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> General question, how many of you have previously said "Can't wait for California to fall into the sea in the next Earthquake".  It's a pretty similar sentiment with that, a bit more serious without an /s or an emoji for sure.


I don’t think I’ve ever railed against California. Maybe I have, I’m not going to look back through my search history.

I get pretty tired of those comments. You are correct, people do make remarks like that. I think they’re shitty, regardless of the state.


----------



## Bypass (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> General question, how many of you have previously said "Can't wait for California to fall into the sea in the next Earthquake".  It's a pretty similar sentiment with that, a bit more serious without an /s or an emoji for sure.


/Raises hand.    I'm an insensitive prick remember.

On a side note. You guys need to watch "The Hunt" You will enjoy it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> General question, how many of you have previously said "Can't wait for California to fall into the sea in the next Earthquake".  It's a pretty similar sentiment with that, a bit more serious without an /s or an emoji for sure.


Definitely guilty of that, if not here then in private. Though I'm hearing that the rest of CA is pretty much held hostage by the cities uber corrupt liberal politicians.


Bypass said:


> /Raises hand.    I'm an insensitive prick remember.
> 
> On a side note. You guys need to watch "The Hunt" You will enjoy it.


Read the synopsis... it seems fitting considering the situation being played out across the country.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 10, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever railed against California. Maybe I have, I’m not going to look back through my search history.
> 
> I get pretty tired of those comments. You are correct, people do make remarks like that. I think they’re shitty, regardless of the state.



I agree with you.  We should never wish death, or injury, or financial/social ruin, on any of our fellow citizens simply because of where they live or because of their political beliefs.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 10, 2020)

I’ve wished for California to break off and form their own country more times than I care to count. Not at the bottom of the sea, though. Where would my almonds come from?


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 10, 2020)

Asked a can't breathe shirt wearing guy if he should apologize to my wife for his ancestors destroying their way of life, he got butt hurt.
Then I followed up by informing him that she is Choctaw, and the Buffalo Soldiers oppressed the indigenous population.
Called me a racist.
That's how stupid all this has become. SAPD Officer was purposely run done by someone in a SUV this morning.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Asked a can't breathe shirt wearing guy if he should apologize to my wife for his ancestors destroying their way of life, he got butt hurt.
> Then I followed up by informing him that she is Choctaw, and the Buffalo Soldiers oppressed the indigenous population.
> Called me a racist.
> That's how stupid all this has become. SAPD Officer was purposely run done by someone in a SUV this morning.


Honestly, if anyone really still has a beef, it's the Native American tribes.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

Seattle continuing to get really dumb.  

Seattle schools chief, School Board announce intention to suspend partnership with police


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seattle continuing to get really dumb.
> 
> Seattle schools chief, School Board announce intention to suspend partnership with police



No.. I heard it's a really cool city. They even have their very own separatist group living in CHAZ. You think they will be seen as traitors one day?


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 10, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> No.. I heard it's a really cool city. They even have their very own separatist group living in CHAZ. You think they will be seen as traitors one day?


Nope. They’re patriots. Good, solid folks. Hell, the South will rise again upon the shoulders of their secession.

#AntebellumSeattle #GoneWithTheNeedle


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seattle continuing to get really dumb.
> 
> Seattle schools chief, School Board announce intention to suspend partnership with police


Hard disagree, cops shouldn't be taking kids to the principle's office.  Teachers and Teacher's aids need to do that.
Cops in schools is another example of politicians over tasking the cops.
Take the saved money, and "harden" the school if you are worried about an active shooter incident.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 10, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I agree with you.  We should never wish death, or injury, or financial/social ruin, on any of our fellow citizens simply because of where they live or because of their political beliefs.


Mara I think you and @DasBoot are more cool headed than I. After seeing and living with the idiocy these people bring, I've developed a antipathy towards these mini tyrants.

Americans just want to be left alone, especially with standards of living falling. The useful idiots trying to ram their version of Marxism down our collective throats are a cancer upon the nation.


racing_kitty said:


> I’ve wished for California to break off and form their own country more times than I care to count. Not at the bottom of the sea, though. Where would my almonds come from?


If it helps those almond farms are in inland CA, which is held hostage by the cities. If the cities and some of the affluent coastal burbs fall I doubt many a tear will be shed. Same with Oregon and Portland. The inland's are fine, it's the coastal cities that have become wretched hives of scum and villainy.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Hard disagree, cops shouldn't be taking kids to the principle's office.  Teachers and Teacher's aids need to do that.
> Cops in schools is another example of politicians over tasking the cops.
> Take the saved money, and "harden" the school if you are worried about an active shooter incident.


Hard disagree.  Resource Officers are not in schools to remove unruly children from classrooms.  You have school security and proctors for that.  You have resource officers in place so that you have a first responder on campus for immediate action.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Eh, wonder how long it takes to start collecting taxes from the locals.




SPD to hold press conference on East Precinct

They're already shaking down locals.


----------



## Dame (Jun 10, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> The Right needs to embrace the liberal arts. The Left dominates the mainstream culture with Books,movies,games,etc. The right likes to make fun of such things it seems but those things are the ones who shape the minds of youth and others. The right must tell their stories and show their cause and it must be through the arts.


I agree. 




Psst... Anyone want to buy a copy of Gone with the Wind (Blue-ray or DVD) before they are forever eradicated?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 10, 2020)

Next on the list... 

The Protests Come for ‘Paw Patrol’


----------



## Bypass (Jun 11, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Asked a can't breathe shirt wearing guy if he should apologize to my wife for his ancestors destroying their way of life, he got butt hurt.
> Then I followed up by informing him that she is Choctaw, and the Buffalo Soldiers oppressed the indigenous population.
> Called me a racist.
> That's how stupid all this has become. SAPD Officer was purposely run done by someone in a SUV this morning.


That person sounds like a total tool.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 11, 2020)

I’m making a half ass effort to avoid news stories for a while, but WTF is happening in Seattle?
Do “they” really have a blocked off perimeter designed to keep police out?

Trump says 'domestic terrorists have taken over Seattle' in the CHAZ


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m making a half ass effort to avoid news stories for a while, but WTF is happening in Seattle?
> Do “they” really have a blocked off perimeter designed to keep police out?
> 
> Trump says 'domestic terrorists have taken over Seattle' in the CHAZ


Apparently they do and it’s lovely Seattle's Autonomous Zone Has Its First Warlord; Local Rapper Raz Simone Takes Over


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m making a half ass effort to avoid news stories for a while, but WTF is happening in Seattle?
> Do “they” really have a blocked off perimeter designed to keep police out?
> 
> Trump says 'domestic terrorists have taken over Seattle' in the CHAZ


They also wanna use chlorine gas to keep the police out. That's gonna go well.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270808264452669440


Spoiler: One of their maps


----------



## Bypass (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm sorry but /Snicker. Guess who they called over when in need? The Police. LMAO!!


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I'm sorry but /Snicker. Guess who they called over when in need? The Police. LMAO!!



In the mid-90s I was dispatched to the campus of UNC-Chapel Hill during some protest for something (they are always having one).  One of the campus cops pepper sprayed one of the protesters.  She adamantly refused assessment or treatment, calling us all sorts of vicious names, just being a petulant brat.  While she was rubbing her eyes and snotting from the spray, she tripped and gashed her leg pretty good.  Then she demanded we treat her and take her to the ED.  My boss was there, _THE_ boss, he said "you had your chance, you said no.  You're on your own."

We call this the law of unintended consequences; or, they are reaping what they sow.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> They also wanna use chlorine gas to keep the police out. That's gonna go well.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270808264452669440
> 
> ...


How do you of all people post about Seattle but not include this tidbit? It's perfect for what I think you'd have said would happen

Seattle Autonomous Zone Warlord Creates Private Police Force, Gets Dubbed ‘Black George Zimmerman’


----------



## Bypass (Jun 11, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In the mid-90s I was dispatched to the campus of UNC-Chapel Hill during some protest for something (they are always having one).  One of the campus cops pepper sprayed one of the protesters.  She adamantly refused assessment or treatment, calling us all sorts of vicious names, just being a petulant brat.  While she was rubbing her eyes and snotting from the spray, she tripped and gashed her leg pretty good.  Then she demanded we treat her and take her to the ED.  My boss was there, _THE_ boss, he said "you had your chance, you said no.  You're on your own."
> 
> We call this the law of unintended consequences; or, they are reaping what they sow.


Nice! And agreed.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> How do you of all people post about Seattle but not include this tidbit? It's perfect for what I think you'd have said would happen
> 
> Seattle Autonomous Zone Warlord Creates Private Police Force, Gets Dubbed ‘Black George Zimmerman’


@Jaknight 's earlier linked article already covered it. Figured it'd be redundant of me.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Jaknight 's earlier linked article already covered it. Figured it'd be redundant of me.


Ah, I must have missed seeing it then.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m making a half ass effort to avoid news stories for a while, but WTF is happening in Seattle?
> Do “they” really have a blocked off perimeter designed to keep police out?
> 
> Trump says 'domestic terrorists have taken over Seattle' in the CHAZ


Yes they are.  See this post from @Ranger Psych.  A councilwoman breached their own security at City Hall and allowed protesters inside, Seattle City Hall has basically been occupied for two days.



Ranger Psych said:


> SPD to hold press conference on East Precinct
> 
> They're already shaking down locals.



ETA:  This is how shitty it's getting in England.  Can we never lockdown our countries ever again?

The Statue of Baden-Powell is apparently on a hit list.
Scouts founder statue to be removed

ETA2:  Mayor Jenny...that's literally her twitter handle.  Is in a fight with the POTUS as blocks of her city get taken over by marxists.  But she wants to do nothing about it and her Police department are surrendering these blocks because they have no political backup.  And the governor of Washington is also a limp. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270928501164568576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270941712320352258


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 11, 2020)

More from The CHAZ 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270947035823271937


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 11, 2020)

This guy's feed from last night is crazy.  Portland Police gave a lot of warnings, and then they used rubber bullets. 

https://twitter.com/BlairStenvick


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I'm sorry but /Snicker. Guess who they called over when in need? The Police. LMAO!!



Be even better if they were all charged with statue-cular manslaughter. They thought they were all cool and trying to be all hip with the cause, then potentially killed someone. Games, prizes, that sort of thing...


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

I think I hear stukas in the distance...


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 11, 2020)

ALL STOP!!  No personal attacks.  Any more stupidity and I'll nuke the whole thread.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 12, 2020)

Chappelle has a new netflix special on both youtube and Netflix. Haven't seen it yet, but I know its dealing with the first week of protests


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Chappelle has a new netflix special on both youtube and Netflix. Haven't seen it yet, but I know its dealing with the first week of protests



I watched it earlier.  It's very raw and it's definitely not a comedy special.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 12, 2020)

This thread is painfully merging with the political thread.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 12, 2020)

Last warning.  Keep this thread on track.  We have a whole thread of political bullshit.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 12, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Last warning.  Keep this thread on track.  We have a whole thread of political bullshit.


I’ve offered this warning once or twice in this thread as well.  After conferring with @RackMaster , this thread is locked.
The political stuff will be moved to the “what’s wrong with...” thread....continue that stuff there.

This thread will remained dedicated to what is happening with the Floyd case or similar cases around the country.

*- locked - *
.
.
.
And we’re back....


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 12, 2020)

Minneapolis City Council votes to replace the police department — Daily Mail

Good luck, Minneapolis.  You are going to need it.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jun 12, 2020)

I do not agree with de-funding or disbanding a/the police. We need them now more than every to serve the communities.  People commit crimes now with police all over a/the city and that will jump into lawlessness without them.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 12, 2020)

Why to go guys, can’t even act like adults on a web page. Go to your safe space now, and when you can talk to me like a big boy you can come out of the corner.


----------



## AWP (Jun 13, 2020)

You want to reduce LEO violence on civilians? More training and more independent oversight. You will gain neither via reduced funding.


----------



## Bypass (Jun 13, 2020)

Disband the police. I dare ya. It'll be a hoot.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 13, 2020)

But shoot the sheriff, not the deputy ;)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 13, 2020)

Seattle PD Working on retaking the East Precinct:


----------



## digrar (Jun 13, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Disband the police. I dare ya. It'll be a hoot.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 13, 2020)

This is getting insane.

Atlanta Police Chief has now resigned.

Atlanta police chief steps down after black man shot and killed by an officer


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 13, 2020)




----------



## Kaldak (Jun 13, 2020)

Love for the _Archer_ one.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jun 13, 2020)

More police officers are needed to prevent burnout and replenish after those who retire or resign.  Moreso in the major cites were the shit is burning, you know with looters and other bad actors. There are bad apples and they should be weeded out however 95% cops are good men and women.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jun 13, 2020)

Just saw the Atlanta police chief has resigned. Also 10 SWAT members of the Hallandale, FL department resigned. Staying with the department though. Officers keep stepping down or leaving, and no one joining, this country is going to be in a hurt.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 13, 2020)

Entire thing is a fucking prom night dumpster baby abortion. Fucking liberals, race baiters and social justice warriors, virtue signaling and pandering.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 13, 2020)

Joe Rogan and Bill Burr talk Seattle....


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Joe Rogan and Bill Burr talk Seattle....



This should be fun to watch.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is getting insane.
> 
> Atlanta Police Chief has now resigned.
> 
> Atlanta police chief steps down after black man shot and killed by an officer


It's gonna keep getting crazier and crazier until the elections dude (things might even kick off then). These people want martyrs and are gonna go outta their way to get them.

-Divide
-Conquer
-Destroy

Floyd's death has served as a very effective catalyst in the anarchy we're seeing. Expect to see more of these displays where people start to divide as 'ideological sides' are cemented.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

For anyone watching the Floyd protest videos and wondering why fireworks/firecrackers are being tossed at the police... turns out the 'protestors' were/are tossing bottle of gasoline at riot cops and NG guys in formation. The useful idiots doing this were trying to set our guys on fire, but failed.

If anyone remembers what happened to that captured Jordanian pilot... that's what the these people were trying to do.

The people who set this in motion need to be treated like enemy HVT's. Same with their spies and collaborators. Any foreign assets associated with this movement should be dealt with as well. These people are enemy combatants and traitors.

Add on: Any politicians giving top cover for these protestors are part of the problem as well.


----------



## 11Bull (Jun 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Last warning.  Keep this thread on track.  We have a whole thread of political bullshit.


Why is a citizen of a fake country a moderator here?


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> For anyone watching the Floyd protest videos and wondering why fireworks/firecrackers are being tossed at the police... turns out the 'protestors' were/are tossing bottle of gasoline at riot cops and NG guys in formation. The useful idiots doing this were trying to set our guys on fire, but failed.
> 
> If anyone remembers what happened to that captured Jordanian pilot... that's what the these people were trying to do.
> 
> ...


Got a link to that?


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 14, 2020)

I first heard about the police attacking protesters on Joe Rogan but haven't watched any of the clips until today. The cops aren't doing themselves any favors not disciplining the police seen in these videos.

I understand in a lot of cases they're enforcing curfews or clearing crowds, but doesn't the 1st Amendment still cover the ability of Press to cover these events?


Police Attacking Press in Several Cities


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 14, 2020)

11Bull said:


> - self deleted post -



You were wise to self-delete that comment about a staff member doing his job.

But like everything on the internet, just because you delete it does not mean it’s really gone.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 14, 2020)

Only thing I can find* is a LEO being set on fire in Mexico. Nothing CONUS side, nothing about protestors dousing LE with gasoline. Nothing.

*I didn't go so far as to look on Breitbart, Info Wars or some small ass conservative podcast that's flying under the Google radar.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I first heard about the police attacking protesters on Joe Rogan but haven't watched any of the clips until today. The cops aren't doing themselves any favors not disciplining the police seen in these videos.
> 
> I understand in a lot of cases they're enforcing curfews or clearing crowds, but doesn't the 1st Amendment still cover the ability of Press to cover these events?
> 
> ...


I feel like there is much more to this story. Lotta variables at play. Press being used as cover by some of the rioters. Rioter scouts cosplaying as press to gather data. In one case a camera crew was sitting right on a rioter supply cache. Not clearing the area, etc.

Get the feeling these press people don't know what the heck they're doing or are actively impeding police forces out there. Can't just stand around with a camera and expect people to move past you. Like it or not you're gonna get involved in the melee. Rioters were tossing rocks at the press in MN... don't get why the press acts like they're immune.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jun 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seattle continuing to get really dumb.
> 
> Seattle schools chief, School Board announce intention to suspend partnership with police


Denver is doing the same thing....


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 14, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Only thing I can find* is a LEO being set on fire in Mexico. Nothing CONUS side, nothing about protestors dousing LE with gasoline. Nothing.
> 
> *I didn't go so far as to look on Breitbart, Info Wars or some small ass conservative podcast that's flying under the Google radar.



There's probably better ways to communicate an opposing opinion.

It's a tactic for black bloc. When i worked the RNC in Tampa, we received a brief from DHS regarding it. We also found that when code enforcement identified a safe house being used by an Occupy group, there were fireworks and accelerants in jars in backpacks.


Edit: a few seconds of searching. granted, a lot of this might just be your common molotov. We already know a couple of ANTIFA folks are indicted on throwing them at police. 



> Deputy Commissioner for Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller said there is a high level of confidence within the NYPD that these unnamed groups had organized scouts, medics, and supply routes of rocks, *bottles and accelerants* for breakaway groups to commit vandalism and violence. There are strong indicators they planned for violence in advance using at times encrypted communications, he said.



NYPD’s Terrorism Official Says Unnamed Groups Planned Protest Violence in Advance


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> For anyone watching the Floyd protest videos and wondering why fireworks/firecrackers are being tossed at the police... turns out the 'protestors' were/are tossing bottle of gasoline at riot cops and NG guys in formation. The useful idiots doing this were trying to set our guys on fire, but failed.
> 
> If anyone remembers what happened to that captured Jordanian pilot... that's what the these people were trying to do.





Salt USMC said:


> Got a link to that?


Dude, as Salt said, "got a link to that"?

Living here in MN I literally had 4 separate monitors going with YouTube livefeeds throughout that whole weekend.  Not mainstream shit, but the YouTube kids who embedded themselves in these groups, to include Unicorn Riot.

I saw nothing even remotely close to what you are describing, so again...got a link to that? 

This site takes a lot of pride in the fact that we try ensure  that 'reported news' is backed up; not just rhetoric.  Sometimes your stuff slips by because I/we have literally no idea what you are even talking about.

For the record, I/we are not 'suppressing your speech' but you need to be better about posting links to the ideas you post 'as fact'; otherwise you will be called on for it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude, as Salt said, "got a link to that"?
> 
> Living here in MN I literally had 4 separate monitors going with YouTube livefeeds throughout that whole weekend.  Not mainstream shit, but the YouTube kids who embedded themselves in these groups, to include Unicorn Riot.
> 
> ...


So... I do have a source. I've got an archived post from a NG guy who dealt with the protests on the West Coast, guy was venting. The post was scrubbed, but not before people saved copies.  Reason I'm not posting it is I have no way or knowledge on how to scrub that persons identifiable info.

- Other things mentioned was rioters bringing concrete projectiles in backpacks and bodily fluids being used as projectiles as well.

As for the useful idiots trying to set our guys on fire... other instances have been posted on the site. These peoples aim to divide, conquer, and destroy. The optics of a burned NG guy or police officer is an ideological victory for them. It serves to divide the populace and demonstrate weakness on the local govt's part. (Escalation is the name of the game.)

Regarding not responding to posts, I'm guilty of having a few people here on ignore.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I feel like there is much more to this story. Lotta variables at play. Press being used as cover by some of the rioters. Rioter scouts cosplaying as press to gather data. In one case a camera crew was sitting right on a rioter supply cache. Not clearing the area, etc.
> 
> Get the feeling these press people don't know what the heck they're doing or are actively impeding police forces out there. Can't just stand around with a camera and expect people to move past you. Like it or not you're gonna get involved in the melee. Rioters were tossing rocks at the press in MN... don't get why the press acts like they're immune.



A couple of those anecdotes might explain some of.the violence against the press, but of you go on YT and watch a few videos, you'll see several instances of cops shooting clearly marked press with camera crew with pepper balls from less than 10m away, police in full gear spraying a camera through a fence when the majority of the crowd is dispersed and on the other side, a proned out reporter holding up his press ID getting Maced in the middle of a gas station parking lot, the CNN crew getting busted on live TV, etc.

I don't even like Vice and CNN et. al , but I like tyranical behavior way less.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> A couple of those anecdotes might explain some of.the violence against the press, but of you go on YT and watch a few videos, you'll see several instances of cops shooting clearly marked press with camera crew with pepper balls from less than 10m away, police in full gear spraying a camera through a fence when the majority of the crowd is dispersed and on the other side, a proned out reporter holding up his press ID getting Maced in the middle of a gas station parking lot, the CNN crew getting busted on live TV, etc.
> 
> I don't even like Vice and CNN et. al , but I like tyranical behavior way less.


I totally get what you're saying and there are some bad examples out there. Thing is we're not seeing the whole picture... the camera only captures a narrow FOV, it doesn't capture all the angles. Were not seeing what led up to that event or the abuse those officers suffered up to that point. 

Basically we're seeing are the worst examples of police interaction.

We gotta remember the press has an ideological agenda they're pushing. Like I mentioned in the Floyd thread divide, conquer, and destroy. These tactics aren't anything new... the technology might be, but the behavior and thought process's are decades old.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> So... I do have a source. I've got an archived post from a NG guy who dealt with the protests on the West Coast, guy was venting. The post was scrubbed, but not before people saved copies.  Reason I'm not posting it is I have no way or knowledge on how to scrub that persons identifiable info.
> 
> *Regarding not responding to posts, I'm guilty of having a few people here on ignore.*


1. “I could tell you but it’s above your clearance...” That’s what this post sounds like. You make an outlandish claim, you can’t back it up, so create a back story as to why you can’t reference your “source.”

2. In reference to the bold- why ignore posts? You don’t want to hear dissenting opinions? Hm... sounds like that “echo chamber” referenced a few days ago...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Reason I'm not posting it is I have no way or knowledge on how to scrub that persons identifiable info.


LOL - Come on man.  Whether or not I agree with your belief's, you have shown yourself to be a pretty intelligent dude. There is no way you can convince me that you are not capable of blocking out someone's name on a screenshot.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 14, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> 1. “I could tell you but it’s above your clearance...” That’s what this post sounds like. You make an outlandish claim, you can’t back it up, so create a back story as to why you can’t reference your “source.”
> 
> 2. In reference to the bold- why ignore posts? You don’t want to hear dissenting opinions? Hm... sounds like that “echo chamber” referenced a few days ago...




You're probably on ignore so you're just yelling into the void.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 14, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> A couple of those anecdotes might explain some of.the violence against the press, but of you go on YT and watch a few videos, you'll see several instances of cops shooting clearly marked press with camera crew with pepper balls from less than 10m away, police in full gear spraying a camera through a fence when the majority of the crowd is dispersed and on the other side, a proned out reporter holding up his press ID getting Maced in the middle of a gas station parking lot, the CNN crew getting busted on live TV, etc.
> 
> I don't even like Vice and CNN et. al , but I like tyranical behavior way less.


In several of those they get told to move, they don't.  Obviously detaining them is probably better, which also happened, and then they scream: I got arrested.  

The Press are full of liars and propagandists.  Literally watch CNN's coverage of Seattle.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 14, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> There's probably better ways to communicate an opposing opinion.
> 
> It's a tactic for black bloc. When i worked the RNC in Tampa, we received a brief from DHS regarding it. We also found that when code enforcement identified a safe house being used by an Occupy group, there were fireworks and accelerants in jars in backpacks.
> 
> ...




When I get labeled as a Marxist and Un-American or 'Useful Idiot' because I don't buy into the white picket fenced American Dream or agree with a political standpoint. I feel my obligation to communicate opposing opinions effectively is moot. Either call it as it is or don't call it at all. 

In regards to the link, thank you for finding it because I honestly couldn't but that may have had to do more with the keywords I was using.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 14, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> You're probably on ignore so you're just yelling into the void.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 14, 2020)

This officer should not have been fired and the chief should not have resigned.  

Atlanta police officer fired after fatally shooting black man Rayshard Brooks


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This officer should not have been fired and the chief should not have resigned.
> 
> Atlanta police officer fired after fatally shooting black man Rayshard Brooks



It was a legally righteous shoot, but everyone is afraid now.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 14, 2020)

^Watch the Vice news video where they cover the family protecting their store from looters and the police come. At 4:18 a third or fourth cop to pass a reporter on his stomach comes by and sprays him for 0 reason.....in Minneapolis. 

Are we going to say the press can't be out there covering the protests/riots? I think that's a huge stretch in a society such as ours. The 1st amendment is as important as the 2nd. They're not out there volunteering to get stung with rubber bullets or lit up with pepper spray.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 14, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> When I get labeled as a Marxist and Un-American or 'Useful Idiot' because I don't buy into the white picket fenced American Dream or agree with a political standpoint. I feel my obligation to communicate opposing opinions effectively is moot. Either call it as it is or don't call it at all.
> 
> In regards to the link, thank you for finding it because I honestly couldn't but that may have had to do more with the keywords I was using.



I've understood his posts to only speak disparagingly against far-left groups like Antifa. If you are counting yourself included in that group, especially Antifa, I honestly can right you off as either incredibly naive or complicit in trying to undermine our republic. 

I stay away from google when I am trying to actually get content that won't be algorithmically altered to get me what google feels I should be looking at. Try this occasionally instead DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 14, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I've understood his posts to only speak disparagingly against far-left groups like Antifa. If you are counting yourself included in that group, especially Antifa, I honestly can right you off as either incredibly naive or complicit in trying to undermine our republic.
> 
> I stay away from google when I am trying to actually get content that won't be algorithmically altered to get me what google feels I should be looking at. Try this occasionally instead DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.



First of all thanks for the search engine, I'll be running it for the next couple days to see how it does.

No, and I think my past posts have explained pretty clearly that I'm opposed to Antifa as well as other fringe far left groups. I tend to label myself as center to probably center left at this point. I'll agree with you on the fact that when he has Antifa specified exactly it's clear who he is talking about.

But when (and you can go back and look) he starts mass labeling anyone who supported the peaceful protestors, or the left as a whole whatever pronoun you'd like thats what chaps my ass if I'm going to be honest.

I don't know how @Salt USMC @DasBoot @Cookie_  or others who fall on that side of the aisle feel, but it started to get old about 6 months ago.

But then again maybe I'm misreading what he's actually saying, and if so he's more than welcome to correct me and I'll have no problem.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 14, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> First of all thanks for the search engine, I'll be running it for the next couple days to see how it does.
> 
> No, and I think my past posts have explained pretty clearly that I'm opposed to Antifa as well as other fringe far left groups. I tend to label myself as center to probably center left at this point. I'll agree with you on the fact that when he has Antifa specified exactly it's clear who he is talking about.
> 
> ...



For sure and I'm not here to defend anything he's said, just how I've interpreted it. I think everyone would agree that there is plenty of peaceful protesting going on, but no one is talking about that because it doesn't get the media attention that a couple of Antifa folks throwing molotov cocktails at a police cruiser does or killing federal officers like the BLA movement of the 80s.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 14, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^Watch the Vice news video where they cover the family protecting their store from looters and the police come. At 4:18 a third or fourth cop to pass a reporter on his stomach comes by and sprays him for 0 reason.....in Minneapolis.
> 
> Are we going to say the press can't be out there covering the protests/riots? I think that's a huge stretch in a society such as ours. The 1st amendment is as important as the 2nd. They're not out there volunteering to get stung with rubber bullets or lit up with pepper spray.



Did I say that?  I've literally flipped on CNN and watch them lie to our faces when the live coverage in the background shows stuff that is completely different from the reporter or anchor.  

Then I've watched reporters comply with the police several times and they go unmolested. We only see what they want us to see.

I've also watch on live TV reporters get assaulted by protesters. And even after they get punched on live TV they continue to spew bullshit.

Brandi Kruse in Seattle is one of the few voices speaking truth to power in the press.

https://twitter.com/BrandiKruse


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## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> 1. “I could tell you but it’s above your clearance...” That’s what this post sounds like. You make an outlandish claim, you can’t back it up, so create a back story as to why you can’t reference your “source.”
> 
> 2. In reference to the bold- why ignore posts? You don’t want to hear dissenting opinions? Hm... sounds like that “echo chamber” referenced a few days ago...


1. I'm not your subordinate or whipping boy. You saying gimme isn't going to make me put out information.

2. When I put out information the same dissenting voices screeching, "Show me the proof!" or "Nuh uh" becomes bothersome. Especially when said same voices disregard said information.



Ooh-Rah said:


> LOL - Come on man.  Whether or not I agree with your belief's, you have shown yourself to be a pretty intelligent dude. There is no way you can convince me that you are not capable of blocking out someone's name on a screenshot.


Didn't think of the screenshot thing, but I'm still going to have to go through and block out certain information. In other words, I'm going to have to spend time making something that's going to be disregarded or tossed aside. (Sweet! Found someone who after archiving transcribed the post.)

-Gonna try to (blank) any identifiable info as ANTIFA has a nasty habit of doxing people, following them home, and ambushing them. Also the guy deleted his post for a reason.

In the words of White Snake, "Here I go again on my own, buda bhew bhew". (Kidding)



Spoiler: NG guy in Seattle venting



I previously said I had a lot to say regarding my experiences while in downtown Seattle [Incoming VERY long post…].  When I came home, I was exhausted, angry, and saddened by what I had experienced.  I said I needed to share what happened, but I also said I needed some time to rest and reflect.  My unit was activated for 12 days.  We worked long hours but we continued to stay dedicated to the state and the mission.  I can’t stop that now.  I’ve been up all night, trying my best to put into words what I experienced and observed.  This is too important to wait.  I rarely post on social media, but I’m making this post, hoping it reaches those that want to know the truth.  I can imagine, given the current environment, this post may cause some controversy.  That is not my intention what-so-ever.  I agree the excessive use of force in Minnesota was inexcusable but reacting with hatred and violence is contradictory to the message of peace and change.  Either way, people need to know what’s actually happening behind the guise of this “movement.”  Whether localized or nationalized, what I witnessed NEEDS TO STOP!


Activation:
I was working nights and the day of my phone call, I had difficulties sleeping that morning. I had a lot on my mind, and I decided I was going to stay up and do some yard work. As I was preparing to go outside, I started receiving text messages and phone calls. “We’ve been activated! Hit time at the armory is 1700!” I looked at my watch and I had maybe an hour before hit time. “Well, I’m going to be late…” I thought. I immediately responded to the text messages and phone calls, telling them I would be there as soon as possible. Why was I going to be late? My unit is in (Washington) and I live in (blank) to drive, at a pace much faster than the speed limit, I’d be lucky to make it in (blank) hours… Without hesitation, I grabbed all my staged military gear and threw it into the back of my vehicle. I figured, “Heck, if it’s an emergency, they’re not going to have time to put out a packing list… so, I mise well bring everything.” As I was throwing military gear into my vehicle, I received text messages telling me to pack for at least a week. “Wow, this is serious…” I thought. Being activated and expecting the mission to last a week or more, whatever the activation was for, it was going to be an uphill battle… I threw a few uniforms and a week’s worth of clothing in my rucksack and proceeded to drive to the armory.


Preparation:
I arrived at the armory in the evening and realized I had now been awake for over 24 hours.  I contacted my chain of command and determined we’d leave at zero dark hundred for Seattle.  I gathered my issued equipment, added it to my ruck sack, and tried to take a one-hour nap.  I awoke to people on the move and bright fluorescent lights.  It felt like I had just closed my eyes, but it was go-time.  I grabbed my bags and met my unit in the parking lot of the armory.  There was no time to waste!  We loaded every cot we had, all our personal bags, and whatever we could quickly think of that we might need.  We loaded our transportation and were off to Seattle in what seemed like minutes…


The Build Up:
On our way to Seattle, I had time to dwell and self-reflect.  What’s so out of control that the Guard would be called up?  Who and/or what am I going to be protecting? Am I going to be protecting rights, life, property, or all the above?  I told myself that no matter what happens, I will do my utmost to remain impartial, to uphold the Constitution, to protect the rights of the citizens of the United States, and to protect life and property to the best of my ability.  As a Soldier, we take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.  Regardless of the political climate, a Soldier has the responsibility to remain impartial, to ensure all citizens’ rights are protected and that the Constitution is adhered to.  As we approached Seattle, I did so with an open mind and a sympathetic heart.  I prayed that I may understand whoever needs our help, that I may do my job to the utmost of my ability, and that the rights of all those involved would be preserved.


The Gear:
Per order of the Governor of Washington State, Jay Inslee, the Washington Army National Guard went into Seattle COMPLETELY UNARMED.  We had NO way to defend ourselves and HAD TO rely upon the SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT to protect us…  Not all of us had vests or plates that would stop rifle bullets.  In the beginning, most of us didn’t even have shin guards…  A few Soldiers didn’t have batons…   Shields were hit or miss, but we ended up sharing where we could…


The Riots:
Oddly enough, my first day was one of the hardest days.  We touched ground and were immediately dispatched to the Seattle Police Department (SPD) East Precinct near the intersection of 11th St and Pine St (Capitol Hill).  This location would become very familiar for me, due to all of the “peaceful protesters” rioting here almost every night… Only one other unit arrived the day before we did, and they were sent to Westlake Center due to it being actively vandalized and destroyed.


Before I talk about the first day, I have to admit that my squad was later sent to (blank).  While I was there, I saw remnants of fire and broken glass everywhere I went.  Almost all glass areas were boarded up and the area was devoid of business.  What I, and most non-locals didn’t know, is that (blank) is a shopping center.  It’s blocks upon blocks of popular businesses in downtown Seattle.  It’s essentially an outdoor shopping mall…  Due to the fact that not a single store was open, I was curious about the extent of damage to the area the night before.  While I was looking through photos on Google while on break, one of the Seattle Police Department Police Officers pointed to an area down the street and said, “The bastards torched my patrol car right there.”  As she said that, the newspaper headline photo lit my smartphone screen as I could see protesters celebrating around broken business windows and a couple vehicles that were aflame.  I thought to myself, “Why would someone do this?”  As I read through the headlines, I came to realize the businesses were broken into, looted, and then set ablaze… all in the name of “Black Lives Matter.”  I tried my best to connect the dots… but how does social injustice relate to graffiti, theft, malicious mischief, and arson?  If there was a specific political statement from these crimes, even the news media didn’t interpret or understand it… it was obviously a crime of opportunity…


Returning back to my first day at East Precinct, I was assigned as one of the squad leaders.  My squad, consisting of primarily Soldiers from my unit, were fairly distinct.   Like everyone else in my unit, we wore a black vest that distinguished us against every other Guardsman in Seattle.  I could explain why, but it’s not relevant.  If you want proof of where I was, find the Soldiers with black vests in Seattle… I was one of them.  Anyways…


On the first day, we were initially on the line behind the Seattle Police Officers at the East Precinct.  The Officers weren’t carrying shields like us that day.  During the protests, I observed Officers shaking hands with those yelling at them.  I also saw one Officer approach a male crying in the crowd.  The Officer asked the male if he wanted a hug and the protester replied, “Yes!”  I watched as the Officer embraced and comforted the crying protester.  Seeing these things, I thought to myself “Why am I here?  Seattle PD obviously has a connection with the population, what am I supposed to accomplish or prevent here?”  It didn’t take long for that to change.


I took up position on our right flank, recognizing a weakness in our line.  A female quickly made eye contact with me, while recording me with her cell phone, and started yelling… “HEY! ARMY! Where are you from?!”  I told her I was a Soldier with the Washington Army National Guard.  She asked if I lived in Washington State.  I told her, “Yes, I’m a citizen of Washington State, just like you.”  She then abruptly said, “Why do you guys keep killing us?”  I told her, “Excuse me?! I haven’t killed anyone…”  She looked at me, befuddled, and said… “You guys keep killing us!  You know, your training… don’t you have some sort of limitation where you can’t kill people?!  You know, where you can only shoot us if we shoot at you?”  At this point, I obviously knew she was referring to our Rules of Engagement (RoE) but it was obvious she was trying to provoke me.  I tried to explain to her that what she was saying wasn’t true, but she kept interrupting me.  Every time I’d try to speak, she’d raise her voice and interrupt me.  As she continued to escalate, I recognized she was trying to provoke an exaggerated reaction out of me.  I looked at her, shrugged, and proceeded to ignore her as I scanned the crowd.  She grumbled and said, “You don’t even know your own regulations?!”  I looked at her, shrugged again, and continued to ignore her… As I was scanning, I saw a male protester point out and move towards an African-American Police Officer.


The protester proceeded to yell, asking why the Officer was on the “white-man’s side.”  He called the Officer an “Uncle Tom,” a “pretender,” a “race traitor,” and a N-word I’d prefer not to use.   Every fiber of my being wanted to lash out.  How can you use racist terms and protest racism while using it in a derogatory manner towards someone else?  How can you even find fault in someone that is remaining peaceful, that is protecting your rights, and is obviously concerned for the community?!  I was furious as the protester continued berating the Officer… We then got replaced by another squad for relief.


During their “protest” I observed multiple people tell others to “shut up” because of their “white privilege.”  I also saw two protesters almost get into a fight because one wasn’t “letting the black man speak.”   Another protester, when a male had a megaphone, yelled “Listen to him! He’s black!”  I was raised, under the impression, that equality means treating everyone equally… Race won’t cease to be an issue until we stop talking about it.  All my brothers and sisters are one color: green.   It’s cool to honor your heritage, but no one gets special anything due to their skin tone… Everyone is treated the same and everything is equal.  How is this (equality) a hard concept?


I talked to my Soldiers during our downtime.  I had a few African-American Soldiers in my squad.  I pointed out and talked to them about what I had just observed.  I told them they may be focused upon, that the racists in the crowd might single them out because they’re African-American.  It wasn’t long before we returned to the protest line.


I should start gambling because it didn’t take long for the African-American Soldiers to get singled out.  I’m not going to repeat the hate, racism, and discontent directed at my Soldiers.  If they feel the need to share what was directed at them by the hypocritical “protesters,” they’ll do so.  Either way, every single Soldier in my unit was phenomenal.  Not a single Soldier lost their military bearing or professionalism.  Not a single protester got anyone in my squad to break their military bearing…  Not a single Soldier lashed out at the complete and utter stupidity of the racism coming from the hypocrites…   After each one of my Soldiers was focused upon, I pulled them aside and later commended them on their military bearing and discipline.  I reiterated to each one of them that the rioters were trying to provoke them to react.  I told my Soldiers to maintain their discipline and to not worry about the protesters overstepping.  I told them I’d be right there, to address any protesters touching them or pushing the boundaries.  I have to say… I’m a prior Active Duty Soldier and these Guard Soldiers were on point!  They must have had some hard charging Drill Sergeants because all of them maintained their military bearing through this whole ordeal and I’m proud as hell to call them brothers and sisters!


Some highlights:

“All of you Soldiers should have died in Iraq!”
“You’re nothing but a bunch of Vietnam baby killers!”
“The only thing you know what to do is murder people!”
“All people should be afraid of you, you’re nothing but killers!”
“You guys must be ready to kill people with your kung-fu gloves.”
“I’m legitimately afraid of you guys because all you know what to do is kill.”
“Who exactly are you here to protect?”
“You’d rather protect property than people!”
“You should be pointing weapons at the police!”
“You’re on the wrong side, racists!”
“Stop following orders and join us!”
“You’re too dumb to form your own opinion.”
“What Matters? Black Lives Matter… Are you too stupid to get that?”
“You guys need to stop shooting people.”
“You guys need to stop gassing us.”

(We NEVER had firearms, Oleoresin Capsicum [OC], CS “tear” gas, or any other “weapons”)
-Some of these comments were made towards us while we were just standing in an area, away from any “protest line” without a riot shield…


On that first day, they continued to try to provoke a response from the Officers and the Guardsman.  NO ONE PROVIDED A RESPONSE.  I was on the line, near the center right.  I remember a plastic water bottle being thrown across the line by the “protesters” on my right side towards a Police Officer.  Soon after, a bottle landed on the left side, right behind our line.  I yelled out “SHIELDS UP!”  Without hesitation, our ENTIRE LINE of Guardsman moved forward, and placed ourselves between the rioters and the Police Officers.  The “protesters” began throwing rocks, glass bottles, and chunks of concrete.  I was out there ALL day.  There wasn’t any construction going on.  There wasn’t a pile of concrete or bricks anywhere to be seen.  All I saw were younger people with heavy backpacks.  THEY WERE GRABBING CHUNKS OF CONCRETE FROM THEIR BACKPACKS TO THROW AT US.  Why is that important?  Why would you carry chunks of concrete to a protest?  Because you PLAN on using/throwing the concrete… When the concrete began to rain down on us, it came from ALL directions.  What does that mean?  It was COORDINATED.  THEY PLANNED TO ASSAULT US WITH CONCRETE.  I didn’t realize until later, but I have to tell you… it really pissed me off when I thought about the situation I had just experienced.  As they were throwing these items, the Officers tried to protect us by using less-lethal means (OC/CS/etc).  NO LETHAL FORCE WAS USED.  Could the Seattle Police Department use lethal force in that situation?  Absolutely… a chunk of concrete to the head can KILL someone…  What NO ONE realizes, because the media is bias as hell, at least three police officers were injured that day before SPD used less-lethal means to de-escalate the situation.  One Officer took a chunk of concrete to his right eye… last I heard, he’s expected to LOSE his eye.  I retrieved a video from that confrontation with the “protesters.”  You can see items flying towards us as SPD deploys OC (pepper spray).  Notice the second use of OC, the long burst?  That was over my right shoulder next to my head.  I got some OC contamination from that, which was okay because I was trained for it…  The crowd continued to throw concrete.  At least two pieces of concrete hit my shield.  I later took a picture of my shield, WHICH WAS BRAND NEW, to show the extent of crap being thrown at us.  SPD then deployed CS gas.  We had planned for this possibility, telling the squad on deck to come relieve us after they put their mask on.   Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.  As CS was deployed, the crowd began to throw the CS canisters back towards us along with more concrete.  I couldn’t put my mask on since I would have had to drop my shield to do so.  I was currently protecting SPD Officers and I wasn’t going to allow the Officers behind me to get hurt.  So, as Guardsman were pulled off the line by other Guardsman and SPD, I HELD MY GROUND.  I’ve been through the CS gas chamber with the U.S. Army, but this was so much worse.  I stood there, trying to breathe for as long as I could.  At one point, I looked forward, and saw a female pointing a black pipe towards me.  My thought in that moment: “You’ve got to be kidding me… they’re using potato guns too?!”  As she turned to her right, I noticed it was a leaf blower.  A “PROTESTER” brought a leaf blower to blow CS gas towards us…  (It’s not like they were anticipating that, right?!)  As the clouds of CS were parting due to her efforts, I saw a male… wearing a black hoodie, with the hoodie up, a bandanna, black pants, and a black backpack, in a throwing position.  I watched as he threw a large piece of concrete (at least 5” x 5”), that was shaped in a triangle, directly at me.  As it hit my shield (notice the white impact mark on the picture), I thought to myself… if I was armed, I would have shot him…   The cloud of CS overtook me.  As I struggled to breathe, I looked to my left and NO ONE was there.  I looked to my right and saw only ONE OTHER SOLDIER.  I began to fall back as a sea of navy blue rushed forward.   SPD and the Washington State Patrol to the rescue!  I returned to a rally point, dropped my shield, put on my gas mask, and began helping other soldiers that had been out on the line.  As the smoke began to clear, I took a couple photos to remember this moment and the anger that flooded my emotions.


The week continued and we were sent where SPD needed us.  We were told we had begun to get a reputation with SPD. Our actions, while at East Precinct, showed we could be depended upon and we were there to help.  The Guard had arrived, and we’d be there, standing shoulder to shoulder with SPD, against these anarchist/communist rioters in Seattle.  We saw through the protester’s “cause.”  They were using the horrible situation that occurred in Minnesota as an opportunity to cause chaos, to loot and steal, and to destroy everything in their way to gain momentum for their “revolution.”  The group was quickly identified as Antifa, a communist action group that was in the process of being labeled as a terrorist organization by the Commander-in-Chief.


I don’t like politics and I’m not going to talk about politics.  When you’re in the military, you give up that luxury.  It’s something I don’t mind giving up, since discussing politics is as pointless as convincing a stubborn person they’re wrong. It’s all opinion and people typically already have their mind made up. Getting into an argument over politics usually ends in an escalation and personal attacks, especially when discussed between two people that have already passionately made up their mind.


Needless to say, I was very angry.  I’m a protector by nature.  When someone tries to hurt another person, and they do so when that person can’t defend themselves, I become very upset.  People that do that are criminals.  They’re the scum of society.  They prey on the weak and defenseless for their own personal gain.  These are the so called “peaceful protesters” of Seattle.  I agree with everyone’s right to protest, but the moment they try to assault someone, that’s when EVERYONE should have a problem with their actions.  Why the media has continued to defend them, it just shows how biased and out of touch the media is and it irritates me.


After only a few days, the majority of my unit was sent home.  Why?   The Guard wanted to re-staff COVID-19 food banks, testing centers, and send the full-time soldiers back to their normal jobs…  So, a large portion of our unit was pulled, and we were left with a little more than a dozen soldiers.  The platoon was condensed, and other units were added to our ranks to fill in for those pulled from our platoon.  We worked very well together and continued to push forward, making the best of the situation, as we were constantly tasked out by SPD.


Additional units began to arrive, due to Governor Jay Inslee activating the entire Washington National Guard (Army and Air Force).  We soon realized that the majority of our “reinforcements” weren’t trained, were undisciplined, and were useless for the current mission in Seattle.   Additionally, they were an embarrassment… Those units were quickly sent home by the Commanding General and we realized our platoon would be stuck in Seattle, battling Antifa, until the situation was resolved one way or another.


I asked my chain of command a few times about arming us, but it was relayed over and over that Governor Inslee wouldn’t allow the Guard to defend ourselves or take the fight to the enemy (Antifa).  The Governor made us rely on SPD to “protect us.”  That limited the scope of our response, limiting our role as “shields” and “bodies” on the line for SPD…  As SPD Officers and Guardsman continued to get injured at East Precinct, it became increasingly frustrating…   Arming the National Guard is a risk, and some Antifa members probably would have been shot, but the situation would have been resolved quickly with a VERY different outcome.


So, the same escalating confrontations with Antifa continued for almost two weeks… The “protesters” would assault SPD Officers and Guardsman and SPD would use LESS-LETHAL means to disperse the riot.  The rioters then used politics to their advantage.  They began petitioning the Mayor of Seattle, Jenny Durkan.  Durkan, in all her wisdom, caved to all demands… the curfew was lifted, and she BANNED the use of CS gas, the ONE thing that quickly de-escalated the violent confrontations…  SPD had no choice but to view CS gas as a last resort, to only be deployed by SWAT.


Fast forward to the day before the most HUMILIATING and DEMORALIZING thing Durkan could have done…


SPD must have had some really good intelligence, or they were anticipating Antifa’s response from Durkan’s concessions.  They installed permanent metal barriers at the intersection of 11th St and Pine St.  A second line of barriers was also in place in between us and the initial barriers at the intersection.  Everything kicked off per usual, with the “protesters” trying to provoke us with their words, umbrellas, and signs.  This time, though, we didn’t give them an audience.  We all stayed inside the East Precinct, as they did their normal agitation methods at the first barrier.


Suddenly, we were told the “protesters” began jumping the first barrier, heading towards us.  We rushed out to the road and staged roughly 1/3 of the way up the block from the intersection of 11th St and Pine St, creating a large safety buffer between us and the “protesters” who had jumped the fencing.  They were warned to return over the barrier, which they didn’t.  They then began disassembling the barrier.  They were warned not to disassemble the barrier, but they continued.  They then walked towards us.  They were warned to stop, but they didn’t.  They continued walking towards us.  They were warned again, but they continued.  They reached the second barrier.  We later found out they brought a plasma cutter (blow torch) to cut through the barriers… (not that they are the provocateurs, or are planning to escalate, right?!)  They began cutting barriers so they could be used as weapons against us.  They were warned about cutting the barriers, but they continued.  They then picked up the second barriers and began walking towards us.  They were warned again not to move the barriers, but they continued.  They then jumped the last barrier.  They were warned again to turn back, but they continued towards us.  As they continued to approach, they were continuously warned.  HOW MANY WARNINGS DOES IT TAKE?!  It started to get dark…  The portable lights were turned on.  The “protesters” then produced foil covered signs and were trying to blind the Officers and Guardsman.  They were warned again, but they continued.  They then threw a glass bottle at a Guardsman, the glass bottle shattering on a riot shield.  They were warned again, but they just booed at us.  They continued to walk slowly towards the Officers until they were within 2-3 feet.  They then started using their umbrella’s and other objects, putting them in the face of the Officers.  They were warned again to not do that.  As expected, objects were then thrown at us.  They amplified things, this time.  Instead of throwing glass bottles containing urine and other bodily fluids, they began throwing glass bottles full of gasoline.  They then lit and threw fireworks at us, trying to light us on fire.   FINALLY the SPD Administration gave the green light and LESS LETHAL forms of riot control were deployed.  As objects were continued to be thrown at us, SWAT finally deployed CS gas.  The “protesters” proceeded to start vandalizing everything in the area.  They smashed business windows, burned U.S. flags, lit dumpsters and other items on fire, and threw things on fire at us.  We pushed them back in all directions about half a block but for some reason, we stopped pushing them back.  They then regrouped and continued to vandalize the area with spray paint, breaking windows, and lighting things on fire.  Around that time, the Guard was pulled back and we left East Precinct.


I returned the very next day at East Precinct, ready to continue the daily fight with these anarchists and communists.  When I arrived, they were boarding up East Precinct.  City employees were removing all the barriers and taking everything they could out of the precinct.  We were ordered to about-face and leave.  We went to a different precinct where it was announced that Durkan had decided to abandon East Precinct and to give it to the “protesters.”  As we watched, Antifa took over the East Precinct and they erected walls at the adjacent intersections with the barricades we had used.  They armed themselves, proceeded to vandalize the East Precinct with spray paint, and they declared Capitol Hill a Cop-Free, Autonomous Zone (CHAZ).  It was hard enough for me to watch, but I saw Officers that were assigned to the East Precinct for decades, shield their faces, and walk out of the room in tears.  The Capitol Hill area of the City of Seattle, to include East Precinct, was surrendered by its elected officials to the terrorists…


I spent the next couple days stewing in Seattle… just waiting for any elected official to grow some balls and tell us to move back in… to take over the ground they surrendered… but it never happened.  We were then told the Guard was losing its support from SPD.  CHAZ was the new norm of Seattle.  The terrorists won and it was time to go home.  We expressed our frustration among ourselves, lowered our heads, sympathized for the SPD Officers, packed our rucksacks, and went home angry.





DasBoot said:


> View attachment 34434


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## R.Caerbannog (Jun 14, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^Watch the Vice news video where they cover the family protecting their store from looters and the police come. At 4:18 a third or fourth cop to pass a reporter on his stomach comes by and sprays him for 0 reason.....in Minneapolis.
> 
> Are we going to say the press can't be out there covering the protests/riots? I think that's a huge stretch in a society such as ours. The 1st amendment is as important as the 2nd. They're not out there volunteering to get stung with rubber bullets or lit up with pepper spray.


They should have buttoned up with fire extinguishers as soon as the protestors arrived. Or had a way of differentiating themselves from the protestors. The owner says that they know the police officers in the area and have good rapport with them... but those might not be the officers they are familiar with. 

Lotta chaos and lotta outside forces have been mobilized. There's more to this than people are putting out.


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## Salt USMC (Jun 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> 1. I'm not your subordinate or whipping boy. You saying gimme isn't going to make me put out information.
> 
> 2. When I put out information the same dissenting voices screeching, "Show me the proof!" or "Nuh uh" becomes bothersome. Especially when said same voices disregard said information.



Look man, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  I usually assume most people here try to argue in good faith, and I’m not gonna ask for a peer-reviewed and foot-noted post.  But when you cite an anecdote from *somewhere* as evidence that protestors are trying to burn police alive, I find it literally incredible.  As in, so extraordinary as to be difficult to believe.  Did it happen?  Perhaps it did.  Is it indicative of an emerging TTP, or a one-off event?  That’s a discussion worth having.


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## RackMaster (Jun 14, 2020)

11Bull said:


> Why is a citizen of a fake country a moderator here?



I was going to leave this be, because another staff member addressed your fault.   But I have been a member here a lot longer than you. Other members of the site have visited me in my "fake" country.  I am a vetted member of the SOF community in a support role.  Now I suggest that you hide for a while.


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## DasBoot (Jun 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I was going to leave this be, because another staff member addressed your fault.   But I have been a member here a lot longer than you. Other members of the site have visited me in my "fake" country.  I am a vetted member of the SOF community in a support role.  Now I suggest that you hide for a while.


Who’s also seen more combat than an 82nd Private doing gate guard at KAF... @11Bull 


R.Caerbannog said:


> 1. I'm not your subordinate or whipping boy. You saying gimme isn't going to make me put out information.
> 
> 2. When I put out information the same dissenting voices screeching, "Show me the proof!" or "Nuh uh" becomes bothersome. Especially when said same voices disregard said information.



1. Way to make it weird... I don’t know how asking for proof when you state your opinions as “facts” is making you a whipping boy. None of us should keep bringing up the fact you conflate fact vs. opinion post after post. That’s not saying “gimme.” That’s telling you to maybe be more logical.

2. Welcome to our world dude. I disagree with a lot of @Marauder06 ’s posts but I respect his opinion because he has more degrees than I have years in the Army. He also posts information to back up his “positions” and differentiates that from his “opinions.” I haven’t blocked you or your posts because people need to hear dissenting opinions. I’ve had my opinion changed on several topics over the years of reading this board. And that’s because I give everyone the time of day.


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## medicchick (Jun 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I was going to leave this be, because another staff member addressed your fault.   But I have been a member here a lot longer than you. Other members of the site have visited me in my "fake" country.  I am a vetted member of the SOF community in a support role.  Now I suggest that you hide for a while.


Damn fake country making me have a passport to drive through...


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 14, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> He also posts information to back up his “positions” and differentiates that from his “opinions.”


and this is why I enjoy many of @Salt USMC  posts. Aside from my overt disgust of Trump, I do not really see eye-to-eye on his beliefs, but he posts legit links that at least make me think. 

@R.Caerbannog , believe what you want, post what you want, but at least give your readers a reference  or two that gives them something to follow up with.


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 14, 2020)

Tim Pool focusing in on Police Officer Resignations.


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## 11Bull (Jun 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I was going to leave this be, because another staff member addressed your fault.   But I have been a member here a lot longer than you. Other members of the site have visited me in my "fake" country.  I am a vetted member of the SOF community in a support role.  Now I suggest that you hide for a while.


You do not have the maturity to let it go, that's why you posted this. I hate when people pretend like they were going to do the right thing.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 14, 2020)

11Bull said:


> You do not have the maturity to let it go, that's why you posted this. I hate when people pretend like they were going to do the right thing.


Sigh. Ok, man, what do you want? You have the attention of the staff. Is there something I can help you with?


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 14, 2020)

11Bull said:


> You do not have the maturity to let it go, that's why you posted this. I hate when people pretend like they were going to do the right thing.




To clarify the 'Haha' isn't because it's funny. Or it is, depending on how you view things, but I promise it's not in the way you want it to be.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 14, 2020)

11Bull said:


> You do not have the maturity to let it go, that's why you posted this. I hate when people pretend like they were going to do the right thing.


I know we have to explain why we hate posts, however, I hope this describes itself.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 14, 2020)

That seems like a good place to call it. Thanks for the time, everyone. 

@11Bull we will talk when you get back.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 14, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Who’s also seen more combat than an 82nd Private doing gate guard at KAF... @11Bull
> 
> 
> 1. Way to make it weird... I don’t know how asking for proof when you state your opinions as “facts” is making you a whipping boy. None of us should keep bringing up the fact you conflate fact vs. opinion post after post. That’s not saying “gimme.” That’s telling you to maybe be more logical.
> ...




Thanks for the compliment, brother. We all learn when people argue in good faith.

Shifting gears to other peoples' posts: as far as protesters rioters/attempted murderers, I think there is a lot of reporting out there involving people tossing incendiaries as law enforcement, not just in the US but around the world. Here's one report: Brooklyn protests: 3 people, including Catskills woman, face federal charges in Molotov police attacks: source


> "It is by the grace of God... that we don't have dead officers today," New York City Police Commissioner Dermot Shea said at a news briefing Saturday morning.


----------



## AWP (Jun 14, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> That seems like a good place to call it. Thanks for the time, everyone.
> 
> @11Bull we will talk when you get back.



You remember the end of the original Point Break?

"He's not coming back" - Special Agent Johnny Utah


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> You remember the end of the original Point Break?
> 
> "He's not coming back" - Special Agent Johnny Utah



I loved that movie...


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> You remember the end of the original Point Break?
> 
> "He's not coming back" - Special Agent Johnny Utah


I had so much good material to drop on him...


----------



## digrar (Jun 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> "He's not coming back" - Special Agent Johnny Utah


----------



## AWP (Jun 15, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> I had so much good material to drop on him...



I think we all have good material for a lot of people, but this personal attack shit has got to stop. This isn't the atmosphere of a year or two ago. People are worked up, emotional, STUPID, and practically begging for the slightest little thing to trigger their inner fuckboi.

The staff is done with these shenanigans.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 15, 2020)

This may have already been covered, but this is crazy. Imagine a van rolls up, snatches you, and refuses to tell people around you where they are taking you. How easy would this be to kidnap someone? Very. 

Video shows undercover San Diego police arresting protester, rushing her into unmarked van


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 15, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> This may have already been covered, but this is crazy. Imagine a van rolls up, snatches you, and refuses to tell people around you where they are taking you. How easy would this be to kidnap someone? Very.
> 
> Video shows undercover San Diego police arresting protester, rushing her into unmarked van



There have already been instances of people dressing up as cops or NG, for...whatever reason. If things get more chaotic I imagine you'll get people doing very dumb things.

Man In Uniform Suspected Of Impersonating National Guard Member Arrested During LA Protest – CBS Los Angeles


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 15, 2020)

So Jack Posobiec from OANN was inside the CHAZ.  Live streaming at night on periscope.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272517443861098498
I know some people don't like OANN, that's fine.  The video doesn't lie.  Yesterday I had people I know and work with who sit on the left side of spectrum intentionally go into the CHAZ to post and write about the hippy narrative of the day time.  Which literally lies to their friends whom are connected to them.  We've all seen from the riots that during the day most people don't go on the streets until the mid to late afternoon and cities have been relatively peaceful.  But once the night hits? Oh it gets crazy.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272420550133133319
A CHAZ resident broke into a busines outside the CHAZ, got detained by the business owner after he attempted arson, then the shipwrecks of the CHAZ attacked the business, the security force of the CHAZ detained the arsonist/burglar but then he escaped and ran back into the CHAZ. They're invading other parts of the city outside their "zone" and because the police have no political support from the Mayor there will be nothing done.  The Governor has proven he's also incapable of being a leader.


----------



## CQB (Jun 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> I think we all have good material for a lot of people, but this personal attack shit has got to stop. This isn't the atmosphere of a year or two ago. People are worked up, emotional, STUPID, and practically begging for the slightest little thing to trigger their inner fuckboi.
> 
> The staff is done with these shenanigans.


I’ve been really amazed by it all, really amazed.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So Jack Posobiec from OANN was inside the CHAZ.  Live streaming at night on periscope.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272517443861098498
> ...


The MSM has hardly covered this. I wonder had this been flipped and it was a bunch of conservatives doing this If the media would just ignore it or would they rant and rave about white supremacy and how the government needs to take action. My guess is the latter hipocritas


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I know some people don't like OANN, that's fine. The video doesn't lie.


True. I felt same same way about Unicorn Riot, but I got more “real” info in Minneapolis from following them than I did on any of the mainstream stations.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 15, 2020)

Was the shooting in Atlanta justified? Now that all the video is out, some people are still saying it wasn't justified because ultimately he was shot in the back. Doesn't seem like a reasonable argument to me.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 15, 2020)

Thomas Jefferson's statue at Jefferson High School in Portland was felled by rioters.  I'm not calling these folks protesters unless they are in fact peaceful.

Protesters pull down Thomas Jefferson statue in front of Portland high school


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 16, 2020)

Warlord stuff going on in the CHAZ. Kid doesn't even know how to use that rifle. (Mentioned earlier... think Pepes - formation of armed criminal gangs)


Spoiler: CHAZ video











Aftermath of communities being destroyed by rioters. Mentioned people would be trapped in destroyed communities in a post at the beginning of this thread.


Spoiler: Vulnerable Populations











Article on Saul Alinsky, it's pertinient to the thread when we look at the chain of events leading up to this movement.


Spoiler: Image Alisnky Article


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 16, 2020)

A media outlet literally lying about what is going on in the CHAZ/CHOP. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272923946753671169


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 16, 2020)

^Some F*d up stuff...

"What does this have to do with George Floyd?!" Says it all...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Warlord stuff going on in the CHAZ. Kid doesn't even know how to use that rifle. (Mentioned earlier... think Pepes - formation of armed criminal gangs)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: CHAZ video
> ...


“Like” for your adding links along with your post.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 16, 2020)

This isn't directly due to George Floyd but it is a result.  Apparently police in Canada are hunting natives, they must be doing a horrible job of it.  

Racism Kills in Canada as Much as in the United States


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 16, 2020)

So there was a protest in New Mexico over a Conquistador statue.  A guy who "counter protesting" I guess, was assaulted and chased, based on the video he was hounded.  The antifa shithead he shot tried to stab him.  Seen the still images.  

New Mexico governor condemns vigilantes who might have instigated violence at demonstration

Here's the extended video. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1198415333838641
			




These aren't protests, at all.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So there was a protest in New Mexico over a Conquistador statue.  A guy who "counter protesting" I guess, was assaulted and chased, based on the video he was hounded.  The antifa shithead he shot tried to stab him.  Seen the still images.
> 
> New Mexico governor condemns vigilantes who might have instigated violence at demonstration
> 
> ...


Yep... were seeing America's version of the Red Guard (China) wreak havoc on our people and history. Sucks certain govt officials and bureaucrats are letting these people operate carte blanche.

Red Guards - Wikipedia


Spoiler: Uncanny isn't it?





Check out latest search results.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 17, 2020)

An actual Popular Mechanics article on toppling "racist statues". Think of it as a DIY primer for the rioters out there. Suggestions include DIY thermite, liquid nitrogen, and leverage.

How to Topple a Statue Using Science

(Copy of article in case you don't want to give Popular Mechanics the clicks)


Spoiler: Article



*How to Topple a Statue Using Science*
Bring that sucker down without anyone getting hurt.
By James Stout Jun 15, 2020





(PARKER MICHELS-BOYCEGetty Images)         

It hasn’t been a great past few weeks for statues.

From Bristol, England to Birmingham, Alabama, people all over the world have been grappling with the legacy of racism by tossing their grappling hooks around the heads of problematic monuments.

Should you happen to find yourself near a statue that you decide you no longer like, we asked scientists for the best, safest ways to bring it to the ground without anyone getting hurt—except, of course, for the inanimate racist who’s been dead for a century anyway.

*1. The Physical Approach*
The force required to pull down a statue isn’t as great as you think, says mechanical engineer Scott Holland. Most statues are bronze, using an alloy of 90 percent copper and 10 percent tin and a maximum thickness of 3/16 of an inch. The Statue of Liberty’s copper sheeting is only 3/32 of an inch thick, for comparison.

Holland says your average statue of a person tops out at around 3,500 pounds. (FYI: A horse statue is approximately 7,000 pounds.) Meanwhile, the OSHA-mandated upper force limit for horizontal pulling per person is 50 pounds of force—“but that’s for working every day,” he says, “so you could probably do twice that.”

At 100 pounds of force, then, we’re talking about a 35-person job to drag the statue, Holland says. But to pull it down, “let’s assume twice the force—so you’ll need twice as many people.” So before you start toppling, you’d better recruit 70 buddies with a bit of muscle.

Now that you have your crew, you’ll need the right tools. Holland suggests grabbing a few 4x4 recovery straps, which can be rated to over 32,000 pounds and are far less cumbersome than a chain. Once you’re properly equipped, you want to get leverage, Holland says, “so you need to get the straps around the head or the neck [of the statue].”

To break the statue from its base, split into two teams on either side and work in a back-and-forth motion. Most statues are attached to the base by 2 to 3 feet of rebar, so you’ll actually be breaking it at the bronze above the rebar—_not _the rebar itself, says Holland. (That’s steel.) “When the U.S. took down that statue of Saddam Hussein, you can see it folds at that spot where the rebar is in the base of it,” he says.


Let’s say you can’t find 70 friends. If you still want to attempt this with a smaller removal squad, you have to weaken the monument itself. That’s where temperature comes in.

Yield strength changes a lot with temperature. A 90 percent copper/10 percent tin statue, for example, will have a yield strength at room temperature of 31.4 megapascals—that’s compared to 275 MPa for 6061 aluminum—“so structurally,” Holland says, “it’s not hard to break.”






(Engineering Toolbox)

With 35 people, you need to cut the statue’s yield strength in half by heating it up. And how do you do that? For a bronze statue, your target temperature is around 450 degrees Celsius, or 842 degrees Fahrenheit. “You could use a butane torch,” says Holland, “but it would be much quicker with a propane torch. Those burn hotter. You’ll be there for 15 to 20 minutes, but it’s a lot easier.”

Just make sure you use the proper protective equipment and look to see that nobody is underneath the statue when it falls. That means using a long rope to make sure the first person on the rope is farther away from the statue than the statue is tall. Use this handy Pythagorean triangle calculator to help figure that out.





(Protesters in Bristol, England throw a statue of slave trader Edward Colston into the harbor on June 7, 2020. Ben Birchall - PA ImagesGetty Images)

*2. The Chemical Approach*
Maybe you’re operating with an even smaller team—or, bless your soul, toppling the statue all by yourself. In that case, your best bet is melting the damn thing. So let’s make a thermite reaction.

“The formula is very simple,” says Chris Harrison, a chemistry professor at San Diego State University. “It’s 3:1 by mass of rust and aluminum powder. You mix those together and use a piece of magnesium to use as a high temperature fuse. And if you don’t have one, you could use a sparkler.”

The melting point of the hypothetical bronze statue is 1,742 degrees Fahrenheit, but even if you come across a racist cast in copper (melting point: 1,984 degrees), you can still easily melt both with thermite, as it burns at 2,500 degrees.

While thermite might burn nearly half as hot as the sun, it isn’t explosive. “You could pack the thermite around [the statue’s] ankles using a plastic or metal bucket with the base removed,” Harrison says. “You could invert the halves of the bucket and place them on either side of the feet, and then pour in the thermite, packing it down as best as possible. The more open space there is, the less efficient the reaction will be.”





(A statue depicting Christopher Columbus is seen with its head removed on June 10, 2020 in Boston. Tim BradburyGetty Images)


Once you melt the statue’s ankles, it should just fall over, Harrison says, as that metal likely supports everything above it.

If you’re out of sparklers, snag some liquid nitrogen from a distributor like Airgas or Praxair. Then, drill a hole in the statue and pour the nitrogen inside to shatter the ankles.

Or you could combine the two, says Harrison. “If the liquid nitrogen is above the height of the thermite, you’ll have some very cold metal, right next to some metal getting very hot,” he says. “This should induce a lot of thermal strain, likely causing the metal to crack in that region.”

Just keep that hole way above your thermite, or you’ll be spraying incredibly hot molten metal into the air.

And here’s a fun bonus: The liquid nitrogen will quickly turn to a gas and come shooting out of that hole you drilled, says Harrison, which will almost certainly cause a high-pitched squeal. “One could imagine it sounding something like the sound a confederate general would make if their feet were on fire.”


These demonstrations aren't about Floyd, we're seeing the sparks of a home grown Marxist cultural revolution.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 17, 2020)

This isn't about systemic racism, this is about removal of western history. 

Boston Weighs Removing Replica Emancipation Memorial Of Lincoln, Freed Slave. Slaves Paid For The Original Memorial.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 17, 2020)

So if ANTIFA is a terrorist organization, then Boogaloo Boys definitely are too, right?

I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that

Forbes: Accused Killer Of California Cops Was Associated With Right-Wing 'Boogaloo Movement'.
Accused Killer Of California Cops Was Associated With Right-Wing 'Boogaloo Movement'


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 17, 2020)

ANTIFA is not officially a terrorist organization....a twitter post doesn't count as official designation


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 17, 2020)

ANTIFA is an obvious organized group (whether they admit it or not) that is using violence to push their political goals.  

The "Boogalo Movement" is a Social Media joke being lumped in with the Alt-Right.  Just because the media says so.  I think this is a perfect example of the media stoking division.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 17, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> ANTIFA is not officially a terrorist organization....a twitter post doesn't count as official designation



I know, it's more to the people on here who were supporting that possibility. 
I think it's a slippery slope to losing 1st ammendment rights.



RackMaster said:


> ANTIFA is an obvious organized group (whether they admit it or not) that is using violence to push their political goals.
> 
> The "Boogalo Movement" is a Social Media joke being lumped in with the Alt-Right.  Just because the media says so.  I think this is a perfect example of the media stoking division.



This comment perfectly sums up my point.

A lose-knit "right-wing" group member uses political protests in order to kill cops, but is written off as a joke.

The Boogaloo movement/anti-government far right is just as real as ANTIFA, even if it is tounge in cheek for most people.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> This comment perfectly sums up my point.
> 
> A lose-knit "right-wing" group member uses political protests in order to kill cops, but is written off as a joke.
> 
> The Boogaloo movement/anti-government far right is just as real as ANTIFA, even if it is tounge in cheek for most people.



What is the Boogaloo movement?  They're not out in our streets murdering shop owners.  They're not out in the streets burning down housing projects.  Whatever you think the "proud boys" or the "boogaloo" is.  It ain't Antifa, it ain't the armed elements of BLM, it ain't the New Black Panthers. 

Why do we send hundreds of Law Enforcement officers to invade the Bundy Ranch for overdue rent instead of freezing their accounts?  But we won't put down civil unrest that is killing people and creating hundreds of millions of dollars in damage?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The Boogaloo movement/anti-government far right is just as real as ANTIFA, even if it is tounge in cheek for most people.



Boogaloo is a thing because idiots believe the nonsense that comes out of 4chan.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What is the Boogaloo movement?  They're not out in our streets murdering shop owners.  They're not out in the streets burning down housing projects.  Whatever you think the "proud boys" or the "boogaloo" is.  It ain't Antifa, it ain't the armed elements of BLM, it ain't the New Black Panthers.



It was a 4chan troll movement named after the movie Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I know, it's more to the people on here who were supporting that possibility.
> I think it's a slippery slope to losing 1st ammendment rights.
> 
> 
> ...




There's a huge difference between a bunch of extreme right wingers that follow Boogalo meme pages on Facebook and an actual organization.  ANTIFA is a worldwide organization with a long history.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

I need to put my Staff hat on for a moment...

EVERYONE making claims in the last 6-8 posts needs to follow up with some sources. This isn't a suggestion.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

You know that Minnesota Freedom Fund that all the celebrities wanted their woke followers to donate to.  Hahahaha.

Minnesota Freedom Fund under pressure after getting $30M in donations, spending over $200G on bail


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 17, 2020)

The major problem we have differentiating between both "organizations",  is that one has infiltrated the media that has declared the Boogalo Movement the Alt-Right organization.  What we are seeing today is the result of decades of Marxist infiltration into western society and was predicted by Nikita Khrushchev. 



> “we will take America without firing a shot and we will bury you.”


Khrushchev’s predictions

From below -


> They are de rigueur in newsrooms, faculty lounges, and among the staff of mayors’ and attorneys general’s offices.



The Boogalo Movement... 



> the Boogaloo movement, the followers of which are largely an assortment of right-wing extremists, according to hate group experts. The movement began on the internet but is now spilling on to the streets of the United States. The name was derived from a 1980s film Breakin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo. The Boogaloo movement originated largely on 4chan’s /k/ forum, where users discuss weapons and guns. The term “boogaloo” has been used on the forum since 2012, in reference to "Barack Obama’s reelection causing a second civil war", according to Reuters. However, among the recent protests this year where supporters of the movement were seen was in January in Richmond, Virginia at a rally against the state’s attempt to bring in more stringent gun laws.



From social media to US streets: Boogaloo movement makes its presence felt during George Floyd protests - Firstpost

ANTIFA - 



> Of course, in the age of the 1619 Project, such positions are no longer held just by members of underground Communist terror organizations. They are de rigueur in newsrooms, faculty lounges, and among the staff of mayors’ and attorneys general’s offices. The modern Antifa movement advances the robust legacy infrastructure of the revolutionary Left through a belief in the efficacy of loose organization. The basic building block of direct-action organizing is the “affinity group,” which is exactly what it sounds like: a group of like-minded people who share a common objective.



The Real History of Antifa


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

And I don't agree with a lot of what is said from Bellingcat on the topic, but this article does go into some pretty good detail on the history

The Boogaloo Movement Is Not What You Think - bellingcat


I also feel that all of this has been covered through pages and pages on this site across multiple threads.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I also feel that all of this has been covered through pages and pages on this site across multiple threads.



Which is fine, but we're past that. 
----
Break, break:
If I need to make a stronger statement on the topic, I'm sure the members will let me or the staff know.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 17, 2020)

AWP said:


> Which is fine, but we're past that.
> ----
> Break, break:
> If I need to make a stronger statement on the topic, I'm sure the members will let me or the staff know.



Should I move this topic to the politics thread, since it's sort of derailed this one?

Because it seems a topic worth discussing based some of the responses I got.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Should I move this topic to the politics thread, since it's sort of derailed this one?
> 
> Because it seems a topic worth discussing based some of the responses I got.



No, I'm just letting everyone know where we stand.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

Here or the politics thread...maybe both?

Perhaps a little too much truth for some to handle:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267106150044106754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273038720225153029


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Also.  Ami visited CHAZ, now CHOP





__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=640080289924120&id=42597808880


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

*Fact*:  This took place in New Mexico during a protest on Monday 06.16.20

Everything else is hearsay, finger-pointing, and speculation.

*His story*: the 'good guys' are going with is he was just there exercising his rights to carry a long-gun when he was threatened and attacked.  He was hit with the skateboard and felt threatened for his life.

*Their story:*  He and a group of armed men were at the protest for no reason but to intimidate the protesters and were instigating a confrontation.

It looks like he was wearing a plate carrier and his shot patterns make me think he knew how to fire that rifle.

*NSFW - Language and gun shots*





__ https://www.facebook.com/1580860602174626/posts/2585174861743190


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

You run at someone swinging a weapon, saying "we're going to fucking kill you", and don't expect to be shot?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 17, 2020)

I saw that earlier today, regardless if right or wrong (different perspective and all), when he committed, he committed.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> when he committed, he committed.


I’ve been (was before the pandemic) getting tactical pistol training and that’s no shit.  The muscle memory exercises are, if you have to draw, you draw and commit, assess and evaluate, then reholster.  

That church shooting a few months ago really made me think about how and why I carry.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *Fact*:  This took place in New Mexico during a protest on Monday 06.16.20
> 
> Everything else is hearsay, finger-pointing, and speculation.
> 
> ...


Who was wearing a plate carrier and shooting a rifle? I believe this is a different video/angle of the same incident Thunderhorse posted earlier.  

The guy in the blue shirt doesn't have a carrier visible to me and shot the other guy using a pistol.  Maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *Fact*:  This took place in New Mexico during a protest on Monday 06.16.20
> 
> Everything else is hearsay, finger-pointing, and speculation.
> 
> ...



Plenty of video for people to form an educated opinion. Showing him walking away from the altercation, and then being chased down. I can't imagine any part of what happened prior to him being chased down being in any way relevant to his actions. You can hear what the intent of running him down was and one voice is loud and clear "We're going to fucking kill you."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> "We're going to fucking kill you."


Yeah, I heard that too.  Was not sure if it was 'them' or if it was him shouting a warning.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Who was wearing a plate carrier and shooting a rifle? I believe this is a different video/angle of the same incident Thunderhorse posted earlier.
> 
> The guy in the blue shirt doesn't have a carrier visible to me and shot the other guy with a pistol.  Maybe I'm missing something?



Image of what could be his plate carrier.. and a guy with a knife?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

Thanks @Florida173 - that's a much better still image than what I saw from trying to freeze the video.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Image of what could be his plate carrier.. and a guy with a knife?
> 
> View attachment 34471


Gotcha.  In the other video of the incident,  which @ThunderHorse posted, you can clearly see that brown thing is a towel/scarf/shemagh or something.  It's not a plate carrier...or if it is, it's the worse design ever.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Gotcha.  In the other video of the incident,  which @ThunderHorse posted, you can clearly see that brown thing is a towel/scarf/shemagh or something.  It's not a plate carrier...or if it is, it's the worse design ever.


I missed Thunder's video....I'll have to go back and look.  That's why I made a point of saying:



Ooh-Rah said:


> *Fact*: This took place in New Mexico during a protest on Monday 06.16.20
> Everything else is hearsay, finger-pointing, and speculation.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

meh.. looks like it's just a shirt, not a plate carrier

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1272774976043487234/pu/vid/592x1280/WjxROaLm76GDaMb9.mp4


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

Plate carrier, towel, Bible, crossword puzzle...if you run at someone saying that you'll fucking kill them then expect to get shot, stabbed, nuked from orbit.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I missed Thunder's video....I'll have to go back and look.  That's why I made a point of saying:


No worries.  Just clarifying for myself as well.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> meh.. looks like it's just a shirt, not a plate carrier
> 
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1272774976043487234/pu/vid/592x1280/WjxROaLm76GDaMb9.mp4


OK, what's with the fucking whistle?  Is that a signal for everyone to go to the safe place?!  For fucks sake.

I could never be that guy and go to one of these things while carrying - I'd eat my own bullet.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> OK, what's with the fucking whistle?  Is that a signal for everyone to go to the safe place?!  For fucks sake.
> 
> I could never be that guy and go to one of these things while carrying - I'd eat my own bullet.


----------



## CQB (Jun 17, 2020)

...then of course there’s John Edward Taylor.

Guardian facing calls to "shut down" after siding against Abraham Lincoln


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *Fact*:  This took place in New Mexico during a protest on Monday 06.16.20
> 
> Everything else is hearsay, finger-pointing, and speculation.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure how you see a plate carrier and long gun in that.  Was able to back to the thread I found the video on and here are some stills.  That looks like a Shemagh/Kiffiyah, and there is no long gun.


----------



## DasBoot (Jun 17, 2020)

Opinion: 

I’ve been generally understanding regarding the recent protests, the anger, trying to right history... now they’re losing me. Taking Lincoln’s statue down? Because you don’t like how the statue looks? This is just like “me too”- well intentioned, started for the right reasons... then the extremists come out. Give society an inch, they take a mile. America has become one big allegory for “If You Give a Moose a Muffin.”

I think I need to ETS and move to Alaska at this point.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 17, 2020)

The former Black Panther member answers were a surprise.

EDIT: this was in reference to the video "Ami visited CHAZ, now CHOP"


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So there was a protest in New Mexico over a Conquistador statue.  A guy who "counter protesting" I guess, was assaulted and chased, based on the video he was hounded.  The antifa shithead he shot tried to stab him.  Seen the still images.
> 
> New Mexico governor condemns vigilantes who might have instigated violence at demonstration
> 
> ...





What's outrageous is sympathy for a guy who tried to tackle and then swing a skateboard at someone. If someone did that to a cop we would say it's fully within their right to defend themselves, but as a private citizen we aren't.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 17, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What's outrageous is sympathy for a guy who tried to tackle and then swing a skateboard at someone. If someone did that to a cop we would say it's fully within their right to defend themselves, but as a private citizen we aren't.



"Dude we're gonna fucking kill you!"

- *plus* -





*- Equals -*
​


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

Rumors on Twitter are that either all Six Atlanta Precincts have walked off the job, some sources on twitter are saying there remain two staffed precincts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273409711337947136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273427673889595393
Whoever runs the twitter for Atlanta PD is denying it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273415926872969216
The local news however state that the Mayor is calling other agencies for aid.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273424345084370953
Reaching out to a friend, he says that local agencies stopped helping APD a week ago and that her calls will go unanswered.

ETA:  GBI Statement on the DA being an idiot (my words)





__ https://www.facebook.com/Georgia.Bureau.of.Investigation/posts/1507677376060888


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

Update...so this wasn't an organized walkout...but they all walked out.  I'm rather impressed.  

Twitter thread to read:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273464089067556864


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2020)

Good article about Atlanta:

GBI Says Fulton DA Blindsided Agency Amid Investigation in Brooks Case - AllOnGeorgia

The Georgia SBI has not concluded its' investigation and is surprised that a) charges came so quickly, and b) they were not consulted before charges were brought.  Also, interestingly, a taser is considered a "deadly weapon" in Georgia.  I did not know that.

I am thinking the DA was either under enormous political pressure to bring charges quickly, or purposely overcharged/overreached knowing that the charges won't stick.

Edited to add, @ThunderHorse I posted before I saw all your posts.  It is similar.  I love that the mayor said "no prob, we'll just get help from our neighbors," and they all said "no."  She's trying to cash in on the Floyd debacle, and it's going to blow up in her face, _especially_ if the GBI says it's a good shoot.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> purposely overcharged/overreached knowing that the charges won't stick.


Because a “not guilty” verdict always calms Pitchfork Nation.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Because a “not guilty” verdict always calms Pitchfork Nation.



Years ago, 1992, I was a fairly new medic and was dispatched to a shooting; the High Sheriff of our county shot a teen 6 times with his service revolver (.357 magnum), all shots under 5 feet, two were barrel-on-clothes contact.  The (black) kid trying to hold up a grocery store with a toy gun, he didn't know the sheriff was in the back picking up some meat.  When we got there, there was nothing for us to do:  that kid wasn't just dead, he was very dead.

Under duress from the black community, the liberal DA was 'this' close to charging him with all sorts of stuff but the SBI got wind and said "hold up, this is a clean shoot."  It took the SBI threatening to 'take away' the investigation from the DA for cooler heads to prevail, in which the right outcome was achieved.  Of course, when it the papers he was cleared, the DA looked like the wise, measured man (which he usually was).  Pitchfork Nation still assailed it as a cover-up and BS and all.

SHERIFF CLEARED IN TOY-GUN SHOOTING

The Atlanta DA's actions may calm Pitchfork Nation for now, but what's going to happen if the GBI comes out with contradictory findings?  Pitchfork Nation won't be satisfied with anything short of being found 'guilty'.  I am afraid in his knee-jerk let's-convict-now-before-the-investigation-is-complete actions, he's just setting the stage for a worse outcome for the community.


----------



## oneleggedhumper (Jun 18, 2020)

VIDEO: Man brutally attacked, taunted by group outside local gas station

Here's a local news article and video to a man beaten in Houston at a gas station by five individuals. Just from what the article says i can't say if the four was driven from BLM movement or the encounter inside the gas station, but the fifth seems like it was.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm not buying the Union saying this wasn't organized. Atl is reaping what they sewed. The DA is a loon. On the one hand he says a taser is a deadly weapon yet on the other it isn't.

And he's also under state investigation for two separate things, both of which have to do with a nonprofit he is the CEO of. Howard not letting the GBI know of charges against the two officers probably stems from their investigation into him.

Fulton County DA faces election runoff battle while under state investigation


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Spoiler: Ready for this one?  I bet you're not....



Duluth pushes to remove 'chief' from job titles, calling it offensive to indigenous people
DULUTH – City leaders are making a push to remove the word “chief” from job titles, calling the term offensive to indigenous people.

At a news conference Wednesday, Duluth Mayor Emily Larson implored City Council members to vote to approve the change next week “so that we have more inclusive leadership and less language that is rooted in hurt and offensive, intentional marginalization.”


The measure, slated to go before the council Monday night, would change Chief Administrative Officer Noah Schuchman’s title to city administrator and Chief Financial Officer Wayne Parson’s title to finance director.

“I think that there are other titles that we have the opportunity to use to steer away from language that may put people down based off their race or culture,” said Alicia Kozlowski, Duluth’s community relations officer and member of the Grand Portage and Fond du Lac Bands of Lake Superior Chippewa.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Spoiler: Ready for this one?  I bet you're not....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd like to think the city leaders are actually racist for being so simple that they would automatically associate a word with a group of people that it has nothing to do with


----------



## oneleggedhumper (Jun 18, 2020)

The lord is throwing us softballs... Were batting .000


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2020)

related:  NYPD cops encouraged to ‘strike’ on July 4 to give city its ‘independence’

Is it time to start a separate "Policing in America" thread?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> related:  NYPD cops encouraged to ‘strike’ on July 4 to give city its ‘independence’
> 
> Is it time to start a separate "Policing in America" thread?



It's not just America.  The same bullshit is spreading to Canada, even Ireland isn't immune.  An Irish detective was attacked and executed with his service weapon by BLM last night.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Go fuck yourself, Minneapolis.

Minneapolis Park Board Opens Parks As Refuge For People Experiencing Homelessness


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It's not just America.  The same bullshit is spreading to Canada, even Ireland isn't immune.  An Irish detective was attacked and executed with his service weapon by BLM last night.



How is this related to BLM? Is there more to this than what's being reported?

Because the story I'm seeing mentions absolutely nothing other than the fact that the shooter was in his 40s

Murder of Irish detective was random act – police chief


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> related:  NYPD cops encouraged to ‘strike’ on July 4 to give city its ‘independence’
> 
> Is it time to start a separate "Policing in America" thread?


We have one.  I moved a bunch of posts and started it a few weeks ago. Unless someone beats me to it, I’ll update in a bit.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> How is this related to BLM? Is there more to this than what's being reported?
> 
> Because the story I'm seeing mentions absolutely nothing other than the fact that the shooter was in his 40s
> 
> Murder of Irish detective was random act – police chief



The media and Gardai definitely won't advertise it.  I got it from an inside source and it's still being investigated.  BLM has been very active in Ireland and the UK recently.   There's some backlash because the recent BLM protests are being investigated and criminal charges are pending.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

So honest question; is BLM a loose movement of groups with somewhat similar goals or an organized operation? 

Because I mentioned a few days ago about the boog boi killing cops and basically had multiple members attempt to argue "they aren't a real movement", even though people associated with that camp keep getting arrested for terrorism plots/murder.

By the same token, we'll see basically ever act of violence in this thread attributed to BLM/ANTIFA, even if there isn't a good link. 

Why do some of y'all treat the Boogaloo groups with kids gloves?


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> The media and Gardai definitely won't advertise it.  I got it from an inside source and it's still being investigated.  BLM has been very active in Ireland and the UK recently.   There's some backlash because the recent BLM protests are being investigated and criminal charges are pending.



Gotcha. I know the UK/Euro media is a bit more closed off about "breaking news" than the US is, so if you have a source I'll take your word for it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Why do some of y'all treat the Boogaloo groups with kids gloves?



Calling things Boogaloo groups when they're in fact just extremist groups that the left has chosen to label as such is probably why you're getting push back.  The left also doesn't want to address to violent fringes of their side...hello Antifa.  Armed wings of BLM.  Right Wing extremists aren't getting a pass by us.  But labeling them as "boogaloo groups" isn't really that accurate because the "boogaloo" is a 4 Chan joke.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> we'll see basically ever act of violence in this thread attributed to BLM/ANTIFA, even if there isn't a good link.


I don't know if that is exactly true 'every act of violence', and I think in recent weeks especially,  most members are getting better about linking or backing up their accusations or claims.  That said, there is nothing wrong with calling someone out for more clarification, (like you recently did with @RackMaster ).  

If you (or any member) thinks a member is not being held to the same standard as everyone else and you don't want to publicly call it out, "report it".  Someone from the staff will review and if necessary, call attention to it.  No harm no foul.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Calling things Boogaloo groups when they're in fact just extremist groups that the left has chosen to label as such is probably why you're getting push back.  The left also doesn't want to address to violent fringes of their side...hello Antifa.  Armed wings of BLM.  Right Wing extremists aren't getting a pass by us.  But labeling them as "boogaloo groups" isn't really that accurate because the "boogaloo" is a 4 Chan joke.



Oh I fully understand it started as a dumb 4chan thing.

But when the dude is scrawling "Boog" in blood on the blood of a car, its not a joke anymore.

Man accused in deputy ambush scrawled extremist 'Boogaloo' phrases in blood

ETA: This is why I bring up "Boogaloo" as a movement, not a specific group. A whole bunch of nationalist/sovereign citizens/anarchist types fall under that.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Go fuck yourself, Minneapolis.
> 
> Minneapolis Park Board Opens Parks As Refuge For People Experiencing Homelessness


I was just going to post the same.  I'm just about ready to pull the plug.  

I'm headed out to my place in MT next week. I'm going to start looking a little harder at making it permanent.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

BLM in Canada calling for defunding of the police. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...on-black-lives-matter-defund-police-1.5613280


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Oh I fully understand it started as a dumb 4chan thing.
> 
> But when the dude is scrawling "Boog" in blood on the blood of a car, its not a joke anymore.
> 
> ...


In the same sense that when BLM is spray painted on buildings that have been torched? 

I'm on the "they're all bad train".  Because they all are.

ETA:  Who has burnt down our cities?  That's probably why you're getting pushback.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Okay dead serious question, I am trying to understand....

Is Boogaloo an extremist version of the right, the same way Antifa is an extremist version of the left?

If that is the case, has Trump declared Boogaloo a terrorist organization the same way he has Antifa?

Or is that part of the problem, we 'righties' are quick to blame Antifa for everything, but we won't acknowledge that Boogaloo even exists?

To add, the term Boog or Boogaloo is gay as fuck.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

We lost track of this thread for a while, but put your BLM/ANTIFA/BOOG "police" stuff in here.  I'll work on moving the rest of the posts back here.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm with others...I don't understand this whole Boogaloo thing, let alone what it has to do with Breakin' 2 Electric Boogaloo?!


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay dead serious question, I am trying to understand....
> 
> Is Boogaloo an extremist version of the right, the same way Antifa is an extremist version of the left?
> 
> ...



This is where the problem is.  Antifa is obviously an organization.  The Boogalo so far is just a loose connection to right wing extremists.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

I honestly forgot that we made this split.


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## BloodStripe (Jun 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So honest question; is BLM a loose movement of groups with somewhat similar goals or an organized operation?



At least in the 757 area code, they are very organized.


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## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

It's a ridiculous question. There is a possibility that boog lua folks could be eventually viewed or associated with established groups, but the extremism is coming from fringe lone-wolf types that might have indicators on forums that the FBI will be tracking, much like a lot of others

BLM is well established


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> It's a ridiculous question.


Why is it ridiculous?

Please, try to explain it to me/us?  

Please know, this is not said with any sarcasm, snark, or anything else.  Why is it (in your opinion) ridiculous to suggest that Antifa and Boog are analogous?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Why is it ridiculous?
> 
> Please, try to explain it to me/us?
> 
> Please know, this is not said with any sarcasm, snark, or anything else.  Why is it (in your opinion) ridiculous to suggest that Antifa and Boog are analogous?



Because if the question is in good faith, you've been ignoring pages worth of content regarding this topic in multiple threads.


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

Solving the problems... $500 bonus!

Every Atlanta Police Department officer to receive $500 bonus


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Because if the question is in good faith, you've been ignoring pages worth of content regarding this topic in multiple threads.


It is in good faith, but truthfully my eyes hurt after reading these political threads all day everyday.  If I was not on staff here, I would ignore them all together.  I read members arguing back and forth all day long about these groups.  Who/what am I supposed to believe?

But okay @Florida173 , you've got my attention now.  I've asked a question in good faith, you've deemed it "ridiculous" because .... I should have figured it out in the 49 pages of this thread?  

Cool.

That out of the way, enlighten me/us?  Just one last time?


Ooh-Rah said:


> Is Boogaloo an extremist version of the right, the same way Antifa is an extremist version of the left?
> 
> If that is the case, has Trump declared Boogaloo a terrorist organization the same way he has Antifa?
> 
> Or is that part of the problem, we 'righties' are quick to blame Antifa for everything, but we won't acknowledge that Boogaloo even exists?


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Because if the question is in good faith, you've been ignoring pages worth of content regarding this topic in multiple threads.



That's the worst non-answer I've seen in awhile. Defend your stance with facts, or don't make these statements, please.

Cite said posts at the very least.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> But okay @Florida173 , you've got my attention now. I've asked a question in good faith, you've deemed it "ridiculous" because .... I should have figured it out in the 49 pages of this thread?



I don't blame you for not liking some of these threads. I was thinking the more than 280 posts regarding the subject since 2017 with a ton of content regarding it could help. There are some great articles from back in the day from around the world, some even critiquing them back in 2008. I love how they all share the same flags and have been well documented to be an international organization. Super active in Portland with the Rose City Antifa - Wikipedia

I believe arguments to their legitimacy of not being considered an organization is indeed ridiculous. 

Regarding the boog bois or whatever they are calling themselves. Still in meme form and actions are lone-wolf as I stated before.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Regarding the boog bois or whatever they are calling themselves. Still in meme form and actions are lone-wolf as I stated before.


Okay thank you.  One more....and acknowledging ahead of time that they are not an 'official' organization.  Is it fair to consider those who call themselves "Boog bois" to be an extreme for of Conservatism, the same way Antifa is considered an extreme form of Liberalism?

To add - thank you for all of the links in your prior post.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Is it fair to consider those who call themselves "Boog bois" to be an extreme for of Conservatism, the same way Antifa is considered an extreme form of Liberalism?



I'd say it's more complicated than that and it's quite an over-simplification that makes people decide on a false dilemma fallacy. One grew out of a 4chan joke and is trying to bring about a second Civil War because of a bunch of disenfranchised "patriots" think they are doing the right thing (nothing conservative about that) and one is hyper socialist anti-capitalist group pretending to be against nazis. Antifa has nothing to do with liberalism.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2020)




----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I'd say it's more complicated than that and it's quite an over-simplification that makes people decide on a false dilemma fallacy. One grew out of a 4chan joke and is trying to bring about a second Civil War because of a bunch of disenfranchised "patriots" think they are doing the right thing (nothing conservative about that) and one is hyper socialist anti-capitalist group pretending to be against nazis. Antifa has nothing to do with liberalism.


Thanks you.  

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to explain your view on that.


----------



## Raptor (Jun 18, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I'm with others...I don't understand this whole Boogaloo thing, let alone what it has to do with Breakin' 2 Electric Boogaloo?!


Electric Boogaloo was its own meme where you'd jokingly come up with an idea for a sequel that nobody wanted and slap 2: Electric Boogaloo at the end of the name. This lead to people saying Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo which was eventually shortened to just Boogaloo. Its kind of an offshoot of another meme, which is why it seems disconnected.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay thank you.  One more....and acknowledging ahead of time that they are not an 'official' organization.  Is it fair to consider those who call themselves "Boog bois" to be an extreme for of Conservatism, the same way Antifa is considered an extreme form of Liberalism?
> 
> To add - thank you for all of the links in your prior post.


They are similar, but dissimilar.
Antifa-Socialists/Communists/Anarchists who need/want a Civil War so they can remake America.  From what I've seen they are primarily white 20 somethings
KKK-Proud Boyz, et al. White supremacists who need/want a civil war so they can "return" America to the way it was (i.e. white protestants rule, everyone else kneels)
BLM-Black supremacists who want a race war they will win, allowing blacks to take over every aspect of government, and then put the white people "in their place"
Booger Boyz, loose groupings of right-wingers who believe we have strayed from the Constitution (especially 2A) and need a civil war to restore constitutional order.

1st 3 groupings are organized with outside funding (esp Antifa and BLM) the last group is still organizing and IMO not as big a threat as Antifa.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> They are similar, but dissimilar.
> Antifa-Socialists/Communists/Anarchists who need/want a Civil War so they can remake America.  From what I've seen they are primarily white 20 somethings
> KKK-Proud Boyz, et al. White supremacists who need/want a civil war so they can "return" America to the way it was (i.e. white protestants rule, everyone else kneels)
> BLM-Black supremacists who want a race war they will win, allowing blacks to take over every aspect of government, and then put the white people "in their place"
> ...



Generally agree, but nothing racist in a multi cultured group like proud boys and to put them in with the kkk is crazy.

I also don't think BLM is a black supremacy organization.  I'd say it's more of another system of control. It gets pretty messy when considering that the Black Lives Matter Global Foundation, Inc. is not affiliated with Black Lives Matter, but used as a reason why poltifact says that the money being donated through actblue doesn't get allocated directly to any political campaign. With the track record of the DNC i don't trust any of it.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

In regards to Boogaloo:

I dont think it's ridiculous to question about the motives of a movement, even if it only seems to be lone actors so far. 
A lone actor doesn't get his(almost always a dude) ideas in a vacuum; its usually part of a bigger ideology. 
We know how groupthink works with people; what's starts as one can easily turn into others. 

I do appreciate the answers y'all have given, even if it's not my viewpoint.



Florida173 said:


> One grew out of a 4chan joke and is trying to bring about a second Civil War because of a bunch of disenfranchised "patriots" think they are doing the right thing (*nothing conservative about that*) and one is hyper socialist anti-capitalist group pretending to be against nazis. *Antifa has nothing to do with liberalism.*



I wanted to highlight this in particular. 
As much as ANTIFA may represent the worst of leftists and "disenfranchised Patriots" the worst of conservatives, I am of the same general mindset here of understanding that the fringe does not represent the majority.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

Olympia Mayor backed the protests, and then the protests attacked her home. Guess she'll back her cops starting now.

Washington state mayor now calls BLM protests ‘domestic terrorism’ after her home vandalized

ETA: Need to find the stuff to back this up, and I may go back to it...but there are liberal boog bois out there.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 18, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ETA: Need to find the stuff to back this up, and I may go back to it...but there are liberal boog bois out there.



I doubt you're wrong. While the Boog Bois swing mostly "right", there are some ancap/ansoc types also associated with it.

That's why I think it's more of a loose ideology at this point than a singular group


----------



## Raptor (Jun 19, 2020)

This is completely anecdotal, but I've even seen SRA types posting Boog memes and laughing at people who think its a far right extremist movement.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 19, 2020)




----------



## Florida173 (Jun 19, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> As much as ANTIFA may represent the worst of leftists and "disenfranchised Patriots" the worst of conservatives, I am of the same general mindset here of understanding that the fringe does not represent the majority



I suggest stop thinking you can put these groups conveniently into your understanding of a two party political system. Antifa is actively trying to take down capitalism and the foundation of our republic. There's nothing democrat/republican about that.

The disenfranchised patriots is my phrase for the boog bois, and because it's come out of the gun culture/2a groups, you could probably find a high correlation with pro gun republican side, but again this stuff doesn't have to do with democrats and republicans. The republicans are just as much at fault for tearing down the bill of rights. You can look at the recent SCOTUS rulings to see that they are now retconning today's ideals into law. It's incredibly dangerous. Check out Levin's book Men in Black. So much truer today than when I read it like 15 years ago.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I suggest stop thinking you can put these groups conveniently into your understanding of a two party political system. Antifa is actively trying to take down capitalism and the foundation of our republic. There's nothing democrat/republican about that.
> 
> *The disenfranchised patriots is my phrase for the boog bois, and because it's come out of the gun culture/2a groups, you could probably find a high correlation with pro gun republican side, but again this stuff doesn't have to do with democrats and republicans.* The republicans are just as much at fault for tearing down the bill of rights. You can look at the recent SCOTUS rulings to see that they are now retconning today's ideals into law. It's incredibly dangerous. Check out Levin's book Men in Black. So much truer today than when I read it like 15 years ago.



I think this an important point.  Because we have two parties, we feel a need to sort people and groups into two buckets, not likely understanding that some of the "fringe" groups may not 'sort' quite so neatly.  And part of the issue lies _exactly_ in your language*:  "....is my phrase...."  Both the alt-right and the extreme left feel they are 'true patriots', and definitions are changed to suit one's subjective interpretation.  

I do get a kick out of the name 'ANTIFA', who actually engages in fascist tactics...

*not knocking you at all, we all do this....


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 19, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> View attachment 34486


I miss that guy...


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I suggest stop thinking you can put these groups conveniently into your understanding of a two party political system. Antifa is actively trying to take down capitalism and the foundation of our republic. There's nothing democrat/republican about that.



Let me be clearer; I'm not making that statement in regards to our two party system, but more along the larger political spectrum line.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Let me be clearer; I'm not making that statement in regards to our two party system, but more along the larger political spectrum line.



We're dealing with anarchists and while the common ones lean left, they are across a spectrum.


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Thanks you.
> 
> I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to explain your view on that.



For myself, being on Instagram a bunch, I'd equate the boog as being the new hip term for the 3%/3 percenter movement, but said more in jest than anything. The boog certainly isn't the polar opposite of ANTIFA, not in numbers, actions, or motive.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 19, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (Jun 19, 2020)

George Washington statue toppled by protesters in Portland, Oregon

Some people just want to see the world burn.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


>


A worthwhile video to watch. This past week I feel like I am peeling back The Matrix -


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


>



The campaign also ran ads using the exact same copy text, but with stop signs and exclamation points. 

Last I checked, those weren't ANTIFA symbols.

So if the Red Triangles were used as imagery because they represent ANTIFA(mostly outside the US it seems) why not also run ads with three arrows or the Red Flag Black Flag imagery? Both of those are much more used and recognized than a red triangle within the United States.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 19, 2020)

Based on my internet research across reddit,4chan and the like  The Boogaloo is a term for what many consider to be the inevitable war over gun control there is no overall political goal or agenda save don’t touch our guns it’s made up of everyone from Right wingers to Social anarchists. They are most likely to fight each other as well as the government. Antifa is mainly made up of people with the same ideological goals your not gonna see a right winger being Antifa but you would see a socialist spouting Boogaloo talk


----------



## Sigaba (Jun 19, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> The community bitches, well when you act like animals, you get treated like a animal. You don’t have nice things. Still don’t have a grocery store.


The relationship between civil disturbances and a lack of economic development years later is not always linear. The obstacles to development can center around the red tape of municipal code (like minimum parking requirements) and also to property owners biding their time until they can invest in a development that will yield a higher ROI.

Local opposition to development can be a matter of NIMBYism and/or concerns over gentrification.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

This JRE podcast has the best analysis of the current situation.


----------



## Sigaba (Jun 19, 2020)

FWIW, an example of how the re-allocation of police funding could work.

Currently, a county in California has a parking problem that is impacting economic development. Because citations are issued by law enforcement, tickets can only be issued by sworn officers. As most of these officers have career aspirations beyond parking, the act of enforcement is not a priority. 

Were funds reallocated, the enforcement could be handled at a lower cost to the county and likely be more effective.  While the reallocation might mean fewer law enforcement FTEs in the short term, the increased pace of economic development would lead to more tax revenue and jobs for community members (and, arguably, less crime).


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

And now the abolishment of the Toronto Police. 

VIDEOS: Protesters Call For Abolishing Toronto Police


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> The relationship between civil disturbances and a lack of economic development years later is not always linear. The obstacles to development can center around the red tape of municipal code (like minimum parking requirements) and also to property owners biding their time until they can invest in a development that will yield a higher ROI.
> 
> Local opposition to development can be a matter of NIMBYism and/or concerns over gentrification.


Sorry, I wholly disagree.  Significant swaths of Los Angeles got zero economic development for over a decade following the Rodney King riots.  Companies don't come back.  And guess who was the first company to go into many of these communities before the hippy coffee shops?  WalMart.  They bitched about WalMart because a certain segment of the media demonized WalMarts business practices.  Even if there wasn't red tape, it would take a company years before they would return to a city that was burnt to a crisp.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 19, 2020)

Talk about getting ratio'd. Some pretty funny responses in there




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274007783864627201


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2020)

Keep it classy Portland:

George Washington statue toppled by protesters in Portland, Oregon

Fuck these people, seriously. These people are not leading.

NY City Council Members Call for Thomas Jefferson Statue To Be Removed From City Hall

This current episode of the TimCast is intense. "The right has a line, the left doesn't."


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Talk about getting ratio'd. Some pretty funny responses in there
> 
> 
> View attachment 34503
> ...



Why do I care about what the UN thinks about this? Asking as a member, not as staff.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jun 19, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So *honest question*; *is BLM a loose movement of groups with somewhat similar goals or an organized operation*?*(POST#948)*



Is this a rhetorical question - or an HONEST question? 50 pages in and you ask this question? 3yrs of BLM, burning, rioting, protesting, Ferguson, well proven coordination, donations, websites, foundations, etc, etc... Where have you been?

15yrs SF may have made me too cynical but I'm one of those that doesn't believe that *NO* question is a *DUMB* question. This one ranks right on up there as unbelievably naive.




Cookie_ said:


> *I am* of the same general mindset here of understanding that *the fringe does not represent the majority.*



And *WHAT IS IT* that you do as *SOF SUPPORT*?


*What is a fringe person*?
The definition of *fringe* is *someone* or something at the edge. An example of *fringe* is *someone* who doesn't fit in with the mainstream culture but who is unconventional like punk rock or grunge. An example of *fringe* is the edge of the television reception area

*YOU DECIDE:
*​


----------



## 757 (Jun 19, 2020)

One of my Antifa friends posted this shortly after Floyd's death on social media. Seems useful to the discussion, so here it is.



"Evidently Hampton Roads has either forgotten, or never paid enough attention to organizers to learn in the first place, that #BlackLivesMatter757/BLM757 is run by a transphobic and misogynistic scammer who has worked with white supremacists (his logo used to feature the 3%ers symbol as well), had a Black woman arrested for calling him out, and threatened the lives and livelihoods of Black women. He has spent 3 years lying about his involvement in anti-fascist and anti-racist organizing and will pocket any money you give him. I have personally been burned by his lies and he threatened me too, but that's not the important thing here. I want you all to stay in the streets and keep fighting, but do NOT get taken in by this guy again! Don't give him any more credibility, headlines, or press (looking at you, Three Ships Coffee). He's dangerous and will escalate actions or switch sides to stand with the cops at will, whatever gets him more headlines. There are plenty of other organizers still in Hampton Roads and all over VA who will back me up on this."
- Casey Copeland


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 19, 2020)

FBI arrests of protestors based on social media posts worry legal experts


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 19, 2020)

Everybody chill for a few minutes....sheesh.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 19, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> Is this a rhetorical question - or an HONEST question? 50 pages in and you ask this question? 3yrs of BLM, burning, rioting, protesting, Ferguson, well proven coordination, donations, websites, foundations, etc, etc... Where have you been?


@Rabid Badger - not everyone dissects these pages post by post.  @Cookie_  is a participating and vetted member of this board and he asked a question trying to get a better understanding of...all this.



Rabid Badger said:


> And *WHAT IS IT* that you do as *SOF SUPPORT*?


And speaking of Vetted Members.  @Rabid Badger , with all respect to your Green Tab, you sir are completely out of line in questioning what a VETTED SOF Support Member does or did to rate that membership category.  You can be assured that the staff was confident enough in his credentials to assign him that Brown Tab. 

You are completely out of line; what you just did is fucking bullshit.

I am escalating this to the Admins for further review, but I do have the ability to suspend your posting rights for a few days, so consider that done.

Unbelievable. 




Everybody just chill the fuck out for a few days on this topic.


----------



## AWP (Jun 20, 2020)

I'm opening this back up. The problem was addressed.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 20, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> So honest question; is BLM a loose movement of groups with somewhat similar goals or an organized operation?
> 
> Because I mentioned a few days ago about the boog boi killing cops and basically had multiple members attempt to argue "they aren't a real movement", even though people associated with that camp keep getting arrested for terrorism plots/murder.
> 
> By the same token, we'll see basically ever act of violence in this thread attributed to BLM/ANTIFA, even if there isn't a good link.





Rabid Badger said:


> Is this a rhetorical question - or an HONEST question? 50 pages in and you ask this question? 3yrs of BLM, burning, rioting, protesting, Ferguson, well proven coordination, donations, websites, foundations, etc, etc... Where have you been?
> 
> 15yrs SF may have made me too cynical but I'm one of those that doesn't believe that *NO* question is a *DUMB* question. This one ranks right on up there as unbelievably naive.


I think a lot of the hyperbole in this piece of dialogue is unnecessary, because you both seem to be operating off one specific understanding of BLM while entertaining a false dilemma.

BLM is a organized movement that officially advocates for nonviolent civil disobedience in response to incidents of police brutality against black people in America.  Additionally, its founders expressly and repeatedly advocate for nonviolent civil disobedience. It is important to start with this basic and unconflated description of BLM's self-definition and the strategy prescribed by its 'leaders' : nonviolent civil disobedience.

BLM also contains rhetoric in its description of the state and its behavior towards its black constituents that people (including some of its own members, not just agent provocateurs) have and continue to use as justification for violent retaliation.  This should be acknowledged, but it is equally important not to unnecessarily conflate it with the movement as a whole or its advocacy of nonviolent action.

@Cookie_ 's question was not 'dumb' or 'naive', because BLM as an 'organized' movement operates on an extremely decentralized network, and it has no official hierarchy beyond the unifying message of its founders and whatever subgroups developed in their own communities.  This means that any person or group of people can claim BLM membership, and deviations in what the founding leadership deemed to be appropriate responses to police brutality are bound to occur.  The variance of some of these responses makes it extremely easy for a person to either extend the violent divergences from the nonviolence appeals of their national 'leaders' towards the entire movement (@Rabid Badger), or to question how unified its message is and whether it is, in fact, an organized movement with a united approach to resolving police brutality against black people (@Cookie_ ).

I find it helpful to assume the best intent in these discussions, particularly when it comes to questioning the sincerity of a person asking these questions (especially after they state so themselves, in @Ooh-Rah's case ), and even moreso within a community as mature and accomplished as this one.  Let us continue to keep this forum (and 'Murca!) great by holding the standard.


----------



## AWP (Jun 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Let us continue to keep this forum (and 'Murca!) great by holding the standard.



Thank you for your post, but the staff has already addressed this. If you have an issue with someone's post, please use the Report feature in the lower left-hand corner of the offending post.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> Thank you for your post, but the staff has already addressed this. If you have an issue with someone's post, please use the Report feature in the lower left-hand corner of the offending post.


I don't hold any current issue - this is a resubmission of a message I wrote posted three minutes after @Ooh-Rah closed the thread.

You are more than welcome to delete that specific line if it is less relevant now due to the vitriol being sorted.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 20, 2020)

I don't get what reallocating the funds has to do with the legal ramifications that LE's required for parking enforcement.  You'd need more funds for more officers to be able to enforce the laws as they stand now.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 20, 2020)

Lemme just check in here...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 20, 2020)

Rioters continue to tear down statues.  Ulysses S Grant this time. 

Protesters tear down statues of Union general Ulysses S. Grant, national anthem lyricist Francis Scott Key


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 20, 2020)

Proud Boys origin, not KKK. It's a goof...







ThunderHorse said:


> Rioters continue to tear down statues.  Ulysses S Grant this time.
> 
> Protesters tear down statues of Union general Ulysses S. Grant, national anthem lyricist Francis Scott Key


Hate at the useful idiots destroying our collective history, not you bro.

If anything... I think this serves as an excellent example of how much the education system has failed in the teaching of our history and civics.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 20, 2020)

Now this.

Protesters paint 'defund the police' on street in front of Toronto police headquarters


----------



## Sigaba (Jun 20, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> I don't get what reallocating the funds has to do with the legal ramifications that LE's required for parking enforcement.  You'd need more funds for more officers to be able to enforce the laws as they stand now.


If the county were to stand up a department that handled parking enforcement, the work could be done by non-sworn employees who would be paid less but probably in the role longer because there would be a career path that led to managerial roles.

An upside for law enforcement is that officers would be able to do more of the work they want to do than the work they don't want to do. 

The bowdlerized version of "defund the police" can very easily get in the way of a serious conversation about "what's the best way to spend public funds." There's a website Transparent California that allows one to look at how much public employees earn. And budget information for municipalities and counties are readily available, as are job descriptions. 

Officers are not paid as much as they should and their job descriptions include tasks that may not be the best use of their time. If boxes were moved around on organizational charts and money were reallocated, you could get more bang for the buck without necessarily firing anyone or cutting anyone's pay. (You get rid of a couple of bad apple officers, fill their roles with officers who were previously doing parking.)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 20, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> If the county were to stand up a department that handled parking enforcement, the work could be done by non-sworn employees who would be paid less but probably in the role longer because there would be a career path that led to managerial roles.
> 
> An upside for law enforcement is that officers would be able to do more of the work they want to do than the work they don't want to do.
> 
> ...



There are a lot of departments that specifically have parking enforcement roles. And many cities that have separate departments for that.  LA as one example:

Parking Enforcement Home - LADOT


----------



## Sigaba (Jun 20, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> The relationship between civil disturbances and a lack of economic development years later is not always linear.





ThunderHorse said:


> Sorry, I wholly disagree.



For your position to be correct, every decision to not invest in a project in areas of the greater L.A. region is driving by a single consideration every time.  

FWIW, my point of view is based upon my work at a consultancy that does a lot of work in the L.A. area, it remains my position that the decision making process is complicated and, IME, the assessment of risk is not about the possibility of riots or natural disasters.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 20, 2020)

Now this.  

Protestors paint 'Defund The Police' in front of Toronto police headquarters - CityNews Toronto


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jun 20, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> If the county were to stand up a department that handled parking enforcement, the work could be done by non-sworn employees who would be paid less but probably in the role longer because there would be a career path that led to managerial roles.
> 
> An upside for law enforcement is that officers would be able to do more of the work they want to do than the work they don't want to do.
> 
> ...



In much of urban California, police are very well compensated. My cousin ( SD county Sheriffs deputy) made well over 150k in total compensation, and over 105k just in base salary(no overtime or shift differential included) That is two years old, (as that is how Transparent California normally works.) Police in most of California are very well paid, especially considering there is very little educational requirement. Idk how much you think police should be paid, but that seems like it is enough.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 20, 2020)

I cannot even imagine trying to a cop under these circumstances.

Minneapolis officers responding to shootings met with 'hostile' crowds

Minneapolis police officers responding to separate shootings Friday night were met with angry crowds that impeded them from doing their job, a department spokesman said Saturday.

Around 11:25 p.m. in the 3800 block of Chicago Avenue — near the site where George Floyd was killed May 25 while in police custody — officers responded to a reported shooting. A man had shot himself and bystanders were administering CPR, according to police.

Officers tried to provide aid upon arrival but encountered “hostile” crowds that impeded them, police spokesman John Elder said. The man was taken to HCMC, where he died. Elder said it is not clear if the shooting was a suicide or an accident. Police are investigating.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Police in most of California are very well paid, especially considering there is very little educational requirement. Idk how much you think police should be paid, but that seems like it is enough.



One could very well argue that's actually pretty shit pay, considered the costs, starting with health insurance and expenses and prices of living in Cali, not even going into departments that have to fund everything themselves - and like solid gear were cheap...

So yeah. Nah. Don't think more messages of the 'cops are soo well paid', while rioting crowds about everybody scream for even less funds, are an useful thing to put up.

Not a cop and it's not that personal to me either, but respect the everloving hell of still serving officers.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 20, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> If the county were to stand up a department that handled parking enforcement, the work could be done by non-sworn employees who would be paid less but probably in the role longer because there would be a career path that led to managerial roles.
> 
> An upside for law enforcement is that officers would be able to do more of the work they want to do than the work they don't want to do.
> 
> ...




You're ignoring the major issue.

The LAW requires SWORN ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS to issue citations.

Moving the money around and standing up another specific department that handles parking enforcement with non-sworn officers won't do SHIT till you CHANGE THE FUCKING REQUIREMENTS specifically about citations.

The first task is getting legislators at the STATE level that will change things. Good luck with that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 20, 2020)

Sigaba said:


> For your position to be correct, every decision to not invest in a project in areas of the greater L.A. region is driving by a single consideration every time.
> 
> FWIW, my point of view is based upon my work at a consultancy that does a lot of work in the L.A. area, it remains my position that the decision making process is complicated and, IME, the assessment of risk is not about the possibility of riots or natural disasters.


LA is not the only model.  You can look at several cities as @Polar Bear listed.  Following these riots the cities lost massive investment that they previously had.  Red tape or not these companies choose to go elsewhere.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> In much of urban California, police are very well compensated. My cousin ( SD county Sheriffs deputy) made well over 150k in total compensation, and over 105k just in base salary(no overtime or shift differential included) That is two years old, (as that is how Transparent California normally works.) Police in most of California are very well paid, especially considering there is very little educational requirement. Idk how much you think police should be paid, but that seems like it is enough.



You're using his salary number as a basis for your personal position, which is clearly agenda based.  Cost of living in San Diego county is stupid.  You have to compensate people well enough for them to live close enough to the locale they work in.  There is no cheap place to live in SD County.

For example, the different between living and Raleigh  and in San Diego based on cost of living is +51%.  So if I'm going to reverse that, based on your cousin's base salary moving from San Diego to Raleigh that is a difference of -34%.  The starting salary for a police officer in Raleigh is $42,300.  In San Diego county that puts you below the poverty line.

You may believe that there is "very little education requirements".  But ask around, it's almost impossible to make it deep into the hiring process without a 4-year degree.  Especially in California.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 20, 2020)

Cost of living vs salary. If you look at NYPD and LAPD, the pay looks great....but the cost of living kills you. Many stay, knowing that in the long run their retirement will be good....and even fantastic if they move to lower cost of living area....which most do.


----------



## AWP (Jun 20, 2020)

I think @Sigaba is onto something, but like @Ranger Psych said, you have to change the laws. I think that point is missing from the debate: reform is law, not money, driven.

There is absolutely nothing simple about the changes required in America, but people distill their talking points into binary, easy solutions. Nah, son, society doesn't work that way and the longer we cling to that idea the worse this becomes.

Defund the police to improve society is like saying we should go to the moon. Great concepts, but incredibly complex to pull off.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis....

1 man dead, 11 people wounded in Minneapolis Uptown shooting


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

I’m guessing there will be a hefty payout and dismissal of some “bosses” on this one.  WTF?

Ramsey County corrections officers of color say they were barred from guarding Derek Chauvin


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis....
> 
> 1 man dead, 11 people wounded in Minneapolis Uptown shooting




Stuff like that is starting to happen more rapidly now in Atlanta as well. I'm at work currently so I'll try and provide a link when I can but there have been multiple shootings in just the past day and it seems to be growing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2020)

Interim Atlanta Police Chief Asking/Begging officers to come back to work. 

Interim Police Chief Asks Atlanta Officers To Return, As Some Call Out Sick | 90.1 FM WABE


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis....
> 
> 1 man dead, 11 people wounded in Minneapolis Uptown shooting


Chicago: "Amateurs!"

60 shot, 9 fatally, so far this weekend in Chicago | FOX 9 Minneapolis-St. Paul


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 21, 2020)

Well.. this is kind of funny given recent news


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274550602304028674


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m guessing there will be a hefty payout and dismissal of some “bosses” on this one.  WTF?
> 
> Ramsey County corrections officers of color say they were barred from guarding Derek Chauvin


Nope, they can say it was for prisoner safety.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 21, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Nope, they can say it was for prisoner safety.


"*Lydon claimed the decision was not related to his workers’ professionalism or concerns over Chauvin’s safety.* "

There is probably a reason he is not only avoiding but actively rejecting that as a factor in his decision.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> "*Lydon claimed the decision was not related to his workers’ professionalism or concerns over Chauvin’s safety.* "
> 
> There is probably a reason he is not only avoiding but actively rejecting that as a factor in his decision.


That's why there's attorneys to do that.  That will be what the department will argue.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2020)

Speaking to my FiL today.  He is school assistant Superintendent in Texas, their local agency has informed the district that they will no longer provide Resource Officer coverage.  He's having to figure out how to build up "Resource Officer" type program from the ground up. 

 Shit is about to get real as departments feel under siege.  Zero-defects type stuff.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Speaking to my FiL today.  He is school assistant Superintendent in Texas, their local agency has informed the district that they will no longer provide Resource Officer coverage.  He's having to figure out how to build up "Resource Officer" type program from the ground up.
> 
> Shit is about to get real as departments feel under siege.  Zero-defects type stuff.



"Zero defect".  A horse shit idea when assigned to any endeavor in which humans have to make judgments or decisions.  Ask the Navy.

My little burg has already seen an uptick in crime as cops are becoming, ah, "less timely" in responding to calls.  I know a lot of cops here, and almost to a person now their goal is to make it home at the end of the shift.  Several are looking at positions in smaller departments about 20 or 30 miles out, more rural departments, where they are not besieged by most of the issues going on in cities.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Several are looking at positions in smaller departments about 20 or 30 miles out, more rural departments, where they are not besieged by most of the issues going on in cities.


Cannot blame them one bit.  And if by chance they have a altercation that goes national, they just might have a chance of support from their bosses.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> "*Lydon claimed the decision was not related to his workers’ professionalism or concerns over Chauvin’s safety.* "


...and begins the backpedaling....

Ramsey Co. Jail Superintendent Says He ‘Erred In Judgement’ By Restricting Officers Of Color From Interacting With Derek Chauvin


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...and begins the backpedaling....
> 
> Ramsey Co. Jail Superintendent Says He ‘Erred In Judgement’ By Restricting Officers Of Color From Interacting With Derek Chauvin


Where does he backpedal from his claim that his decision was not based on a concern for Chauvin's safety?  He made the same statement about his lapse of judgement in the original article, and they quote the same line I posted in the article you linked.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Where does he backpedal from his claim that his decision was not based on a concern for Chauvin's safety?  He made the same statement about his lapse of judgement in the original article, and they quote the same line I posted in the article you linked.


You believe that if you want to.  No one will convince me that he simply didn't want to take any chances of his prisoner claiming harassment or being injured by a black guard.  If what he said was true, (looking out for his guard's best interests)  he could have done it a half-dozen different ways while still leaving the guards not feeling like they could not be trusted to do their jobs.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> You believe that if you want to.


Belief or disbelief in the sincerity of his claim is irrelevant to my point.





Ooh-Rah said:


> No one will convince me that he simply didn't want to take any chances of his prisoner claiming harassment or being injured by a black guard.  If what he said was true, (looking out for his guard's best interests)  he could have done it a half-dozen different ways while still leaving the guards not feeling like they could not be trusted to do their jobs.


Which brings us back to:





Locksteady said:


> DA SWO said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, they can say it was for prisoner safety.
> ...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Belief or disbelief in the sincerity of his claim is irrelevant to my point.Which brings us back to:



Quite honestly I don't understand the point you are trying to make so....you win.

I guess.


----------



## Locksteady (Jun 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Quite honestly I don't understand the point you are trying to make so....you win.
> 
> I guess.


No worries.

My point was that there was probably a reason he made a point of saying his decision wasn't influenced by a concern for Chauvin's safety.  When you linked an article to your reply and said the backpedaling had begun, but with no sign in your article of backpedaling by Lydon on his statement, I asked you where he backpedaled, and here we are.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2020)

Our history is literally being erased right now.  As I said in Open Mic, we all think @R.Caerbannog is a conspiracy theorist calling this a marxist coup. But what in the actual fuck.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274816919250636801


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Our history is literally being erased right now.  As I said in Open Mic, we all think @R.Caerbannog is a *conspiracy theorist* calling this a marxist coup. But what in the actual fuck.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274816919250636801


Nope, just a humble anthropologist. Much like all the Hollywood reboots of box office hits, what we're seeing ain't nothing new.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?


----------



## AWP (Jun 22, 2020)

I love them taking down Teddy Roosevelt's statue because it is racist.

Statue of Teddy Roosevelt, long considered a symbol of racism, to be removed from NYC park



> "The statue has long been controversial because of the hierarchical composition that places one figure on horseback and the others walking alongside, and many of us find its depictions of the Native American and African figures and their placement in the monument racist," the museum said.



Do things need to change in America? No doubt. THIS is how we're doing it? Man, WTF?


----------



## AWP (Jun 22, 2020)

“I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.” - Robert E. Lee


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 22, 2020)

At this point it's just comical. I can't wait to riot and tear down the Obama statue because it is oppressive that he's a millionaire and I'm not.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?


It's Marxism lite bro. As far as the media keeping silent, they're in on it. The NBC article that AWP posted is a good example of the Marxist garbage the useful idiots keep pushing.



AWP said:


> I love them taking down Teddy Roosevelt's statue because it is racist.
> 
> Statue of Teddy Roosevelt, long considered a symbol of racism, to be removed from NYC park
> 
> Do things need to change in America? No doubt. THIS is how we're doing it? Man, WTF?


America is fine. If it weren't people wouldn't be breaking down our doors to get in. People literally risk everything to come to the US, even if it means living illegally at the lower rungs of society.

Get rid of cultural entitlement, scrub away the scum of Marxism, and everything will be fine.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 22, 2020)

104 shot, 14 fatally, over Father’s Day weekend in Chicago

This right here is why I'm struggling to get behind BLM slogan movement. 

If you are black, your life does matter. In fact it matters so much to me that I'm probably more fucking pissed off than you are about this article. One of the victims is a 3 year old. A child who will never get to live a full life and change the world. A 3 year old is dead and nobody in the city of Chicago is burning down the city. It's a mother fucking travesty. Even the Dad is keeping his mouth quiet about this. Fuck him and the lifestyle he is living. Fuck you, you worthless cock sucking son a bitch.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 22, 2020)

__ https://www.facebook.com/CSCFChicago/photos/a.356374851159988/1937212836409507
			




I'm sorry your dad is a loser who won't do everything in the world ro protect you.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

AWP said:


> Do things need to change in America? No doubt.


For me, the things that need to change aren't even the things these clowns are talking about.

You'd have a very difficult time convincing me that "institutional racism" is real. I think it's bullshit; an excuse.  Individual racism? Sure, there are assholes everywhere.  As a whole, does it hold anyone back?  Hmmm...did it prevent a black man from being a two term President of the most powerful country on the planet? How about appointing a black man to the Supreme Court nearly 30 years ago?  Are we talking about the system in which black entertainers and athletes have become some of the highest paid in their field and top 5% of all wage earners?  ex. Russell Wilson is the highest paid player in the NFL or the NBA, which is made up of 75% black athletes, and has the highest compensation in all of athletics. That system?!

These aren't anecdotal examples.  Black and minority figures have been successful in even the most competitive, restrictive, and respected career fields. Name a career field, they've been there.  I don't know why we continue to call out these "accomplishments".  How would this be possible if "the system" (whatever that means) is so systematically racist.  There really is no evidence to support it so I fundamentally reject that argument.

The issue is simply one of personal responsibility and accountability; it has been for quite sometime. A culture has developed in which individuals are viewed as victim of circumstance and not capable or empowered to help themselves out of it; they're not accountable. There are always exceptions, but that viewpoint is fundamentally wrong and that culture/mindset is what needs to change.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

I have a question regarding the Brooks Shooting. Some guy told me that the shooting was unjustified and that the taser presented no threat and that the cop should have ducked behind a car and radioed for help. Now I have no Combat or LEO experience but Somehow that sounds stupid to me. So Is he right that the cop should have just ducked behind the car and used his radio?


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I have a question regarding the Brooks Shooting. Some guy told me that the shooting was unjustified and that the taser presented no threat and that the cop should have ducked behind a car and radioed for help. Now I have no Combat or LEO experience but Somehow that sounds stupid to me. So Is he right that the cop should have just ducked behind the car and used his radio?


No, the guy you were talking to is a dipshit.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> For me, the things that need to change aren't even the things these clowns are talking about.
> 
> You'd have a very difficult time convincing me that "institutional racism" is real. I think it's bullshit; an excuse.  Individual racism? Sure, there are assholes everywhere.  As a whole, does it hold anyone back?  Hmmm...did it prevent a black man from being a two term President of the most powerful country on the planet? How about appointing a black man to the Supreme Court nearly 30 years ago?  Are we talking about the system in which black entertainers and athletes have become some of the highest paid in their field and top 5% of all wage earners?  ex. Russell Wilson is the highest paid player in the NFL or the NBA, which is made up of 75% black athletes, and has the highest compensation in all of athletics. That system?!
> 
> ...



When you have black academics and black politicians saying it isn't real, then maybe it isn't real.  To me a lot of this is a self-imposed, self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you claim it exists, then you have an excuse for anything.  Can't get a job?  Racism.  Can't get in college?  Racism.  The list goes on and on.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> When you have black academics and black politicians saying it isn't real, then maybe it isn't real.  To me a lot of this is a self-imposed, self-fulfilling prophecy.  If you claim it exists, then you have an excuse for anything.  Can't get a job?  Racism.  Can't get in college?  Racism.  The list goes on and on.


Completely agree.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?


LMAO if it's true.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?


The Extreme Left have found their “prophet” Black Oppression and who dares speak out against him? He who with a mere word can destroy careers and social standings. No one especially on the media wants to challenge him and risk the weath of him and his followers


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Yesterday, NPR tried to call a person who was attacked by protestors in Louisville a White Supremacist because they used their vehicle to escape from what could have ended in their death.  NPR has since deleted the tweet, but I can't find an apology anywhere. Hope they get sued into the ground.  Pretty trashy for a government funded company.

Obviously you won't see anything on CNN or MSNBC because they're bought and paid for.  You would think news organizations would stop throwing around terms like White Supremacist and Racist after getting bent over in the Covington Catholic case.

Zero Hedge has a lot of the tweets here.

NPR Busted Framing Self-Defense Getaway From Gun-Toting 'Protesters' As Right-Wing Extremist Attack

NPR Falsely Calls Victim Of Attack By Rioters A White Supremacist

Local News:

Two charged after vehicle hit protester in Louisville; driver not charged

Local news outlet in Indianapolis calling NPR out:

NPR Caught Lying Again: "Right Wing Extremists Turning cars Into Weapons" - 93.1FM WIBC


ETA: Seattle...four hours inside the CHAZ/CHOP

Seattle CHAZ / CHOP free zone + protests  - Twitch

ETA 2:




Blizzard said:


> I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?



Well bro.  Eliuhud Yale was a slaver in India.  Thing you can't do is also rename the school after its actual founder, Cotton Mather basically ran the Salem Witch Trials.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yesterday, NPR tried to call a person who was attacked by protestors in Louisville a White Supremacist because they used their vehicle to escape from what could have ended in their death.  NPR has since deleted the tweet, but I can't find an apology anywhere. Hope they get sued into the ground.  Pretty trashy for a government funded company.
> 
> Obviously you won't see anything on CNN or MSNBC because they're bought and paid for.  You would think news organizations would stop throwing around terms like White Supremacist and Racist after getting bent over in the Covington Catholic case.
> 
> ...



Every day I tell myself, "this can't get any more ridiculous."  Every day I am proven wrong.  My wife has a penchant for being lippy (a la "Karen"), I told her in this day and clime, she needs to stop that.  I told her that now, in a time where you literally have speech police, we have to fly under the radar and be the gray man all the time.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Get rid of cultural entitlement, scrub away the scum of Marxism, and everything will be fine.


How?


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 22, 2020)

A colleague sent this to me and I found it interesting. Considering BLM isn't out protesting the death of a 3 year old, I find their whole premise strange. Add in the big money funding BLM, those words in the video come to life.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 22, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> .....Considering BLM isn't out protesting the death of a 3 year old, I find their whole premise strange.



Not only are they _not_ protesting the deaths of their own by their communities' own hands, those very communities are speaking out on wanting more law enforcement:

18 murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago

I remember growing up when I would bitch about something my mother said something about 'glass houses' and 'taking care of your own business first.'


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Hey guys, I was surprised to learn that Colin Kapernick decided to kneel during the Anthem at the request of a Green Beret and former NFL player Nate Boyer. How do you guys feel about that? And do you think that his training as a Green Beret made him more inclined to provide a diplomatic dialouge with someone that he disagreed with? Best


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Thought you guys might like this....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Infinitejest12 said:


> Hey guys, I was surprised to learn that Colin Kapernick decided to kneel during the Anthem at the request of a Green Beret and former NFL player Nate Boyer. How do you guys feel about that? And do you think that his training as a Green Beret made him more inclined to provide a diplomatic dialouge with someone that he disagreed with? Best


Not for this thread.  But that's not really how this went down.  Kaepernick had lost the starting job to Blaine Gabbert and was sitting on the bench and sulking.  What he was, was great at Marketing himself.  The dude also said the Castro family did great things for Cuba.  So it's not really like he's all there in the head.


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not for this thread.  But that's not really how this went down.  Kaepernick had lost the starting job to Blaine Gabbert and was sitting on the bench and sulking.  What he was, was great at Marketing himself.  The dude also said the Castro family did great things for Cuba.  So it's not really like he's all there in the head.


Good point


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've seen a few rumors that indicate Yale University maybe the next target.  Where will end? When all history is erased? What is the real objective and why are so many, particularly in the media, afraid to challenge back?



As a grad, I've been paying attention to this story. Apparently it started as a troll thing from the right, and then a bunch of leftists were like "That's a great idea!" and it's been snowballing.

It's silly, and it's extreme, but given Yale's history of caving in to pretty much anything that runs afoul of its woke warrior undergrads and alumni donors, anything is possible.

Movement To Rename Yale University Goes Viral On Twitter After It Is Revealed The Founder Was A Slave Trader


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> As a grad, I've been paying attention to this story. Apparently it started as a troll thing from the right, and then a bunch of leftists were like "That's a great idea!" and it's been snowballing.
> 
> It's silly, and it's extreme, but given Yale's history of caving in to pretty much anything that runs afoul of its woke warrior undergrads and alumni donors, anything is possible.
> 
> Movement To Rename Yale University Goes Viral On Twitter After It Is Revealed The Founder Was A Slave Trader


Sadly, "the anything is possible" comment is all too true these days; there is nothing too absurd or out of bounds.  That's the unsettling part of it all...and no one is willing to take a stand/push back.


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Sadly, "the anything is possible" comment is all too true these days; there is nothing too absurd or out of bounds.  That's the unsettling part of it all...and no one is willing to take a stand/push back.


Many Universities coddle students so much that this was always bound to occur. I’m all for trashing Nathan Bedford Forest and other bullshit Confederate shrines but the idea of destroying all object that are deemed offensive is an excuse for petty violence and turning us into Mao’s America.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Sadly, "the anything is possible" comment is all too true these days; there is nothing too absurd or out of bounds.  That's the unsettling part of it all...and no one is willing to take a stand/push back.



Yale decided that the title "master" for the heads of all of its internal colleges was "problematic," because, you know, racism.  And instead of putting their foot down and saying "that's silly," Yale caved.  Decisions on Residential College Names and “Master” Title

I suspect the Yale name will continue, there is too much money and prestige at stake.  However, I predict that Yale will throw a WHOLE bunch of money at this problem, probably hire a bunch of "diverse" faculty and create programs and spaces that are exclusively for use by persons of color.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Yale decided that the title "master" for the heads of all of its internal colleges was "problematic," because, you know, racism.  And instead of putting their foot down and saying "that's silly," Yale caved.  Decisions on Residential College Names and “Master” Title
> 
> I suspect the Yale name will continue, there is too much money and prestige at stake.  However, I predict that Yale will throw a WHOLE bunch of money at this problem, probably hire a bunch of "diverse" faculty and create programs and spaces that are exclusively for use by persons of color.


Will they continue to offer Masters degree programs?

It's honestly so absurd that I can't even argue against because it feels like the argument you'd have with a 5 year old.  We've somehow reached a point where I cannot discern a "real" news article from that of a satire/parody source.  How ridiculous is that?!


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 22, 2020)

Infinitejest12 said:


> Many Universities coddle students so much that this was always bound to occur. I’m all for trashing Nathan Bedford Forest and other bullshit Confederate shrines but the idea of destroying all object that are deemed offensive is an excuse for petty violence and turning us into Mao’s America.



Small bit of personal trivia: my best friend growing up, I roomed with him in college for four years, he was the best man in my wedding, his last name is Forrest.  Yes, there's a very direct connection. And no, he's nothing like his great great whatever.


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Small bit of personal trivia: my best friend growing up, I roomed with him in college for four years, he was the best man in my wedding, his last name is Forrest.  Yes, there's a very direct connection. And no, he's nothing like his great great whatever.


Haha, good to know! That´s a REAL friend, childhood>college>wedding, sure that’s not your brother? DNA test!


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 22, 2020)

Would this be better for a social worker to visit?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 22, 2020)

Just adding data points. World War II monument defaced with paint at Charlotte cemetery


Spoiler









amlove21 said:


> How?


I'll bite.

Cultural fixes for black culture
1.) De-normalize ghetto culture.
2.) Stop the deification of the worst elements of those communities.
- sports ballers, gangsters, and rappers are shit role models
3.) Emphasize nuclear families and education.
4.) Target and shut down race baiters that profit of racial division.

Fixes for Cultural Marxism
1.) Start defunding these losers.
2.) Strip away non-profit status from organizations that push Marxism.
3.) Fire/replace Marxists and useful idiots in education, media, and govt.
4.) Declare orgs like Antifa DTO's. Target their revenue streams and leadership.
5.) Use social media to showcase the human cost of Marxism. There should still be people who survived the gulags, killing fields, etc.
6.) Stop treating Marxists with kid gloves. If they're gonna riot, burn, and kill, weapons should be free. If they wanna play by big boy rules that's on them.


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Intere


R.Caerbannog said:


> Just adding data points. World War II monument defaced with paint at Charlotte cemetery
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


interes


R.Caerbannog said:


> Just adding data points. World War II monument defaced with paint at Charlotte cemetery
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


ting 


R.Caerbannog said:


> Just adding data points. World War II monument defaced with paint at Charlotte cemetery
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ok, good to go. Now what are your critiques for handling the negative aspects of Rightwing politics/media. Also, what should we do about the class divide in America?


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Would this be better for a social worker to visit?


I'm guessing there may've been a lot damaged birds nests and street lights in that "shootout"...


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Just adding data points. World War II monument defaced with paint at Charlotte cemetery
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I would add getting more conservatives into academia and the arts. It’s too heavily left leaning in those areas and we need a balance otherwise it’ll be rinse and repeat


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

Infinitejest12 said:


> Intere
> 
> interes
> 
> ...


Right wing fixes for me are Go after the White nationalists harder ease up on immigration and come up with better economic plans especially for Healthcare


----------



## Infinitejest12 (Jun 22, 2020)

Same. What do you mean by ease up on immigration though? That‘s a pretty big topic for a lot of the middle class.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 22, 2020)

@Jaknight Why bring up conservatives? They're not the useful idiots burning down cities, murdering folks, etc; all over some dead dirtbag. This is all the radical lefts doing. 

People don't think Marxism be like it is, but it do.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 22, 2020)

I don't envy having to deal with these people. Talk about a complete melt down.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Would this be better for a social worker to visit?


Ew, this reminds me of when I was 15 and we ran around the neighborhoods at night with airsoft guns...really bad tactics.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Would this be better for a social worker to visit?


Figured Doge summed up the insanity of that situation.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Right wing fixes for me are Go after the White nationalists harder ease up on immigration and come up with better economic plans especially for Healthcare


You do understand this is the one group that we go after all the time?


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Jaknight Why bring up conservatives? They're not the useful idiots burning down cities, murdering folks, etc; all over some dead dirtbag. This is all the radical lefts doing.
> 
> People don't think Marxism be like it is, but it do.


I think while the left has become more extreme the right has some things to work on as well.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You do understand this is the one group that we go after all the time?


I meant in a more song and dance way really make a big show of it


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I don't envy having to deal with these people. Talk about a complete melt down.



I say that SPD need to cut the zone off.  Inform people to evacuate and that every exit they will be disarming people. You can likely verify real residents from that area with various bills if you don't have licenses that match the address.  Everyone else gets disarmed, and held for I don't know, the crime of insurrection?


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 22, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I think while the left has become more extreme the right has some things to work on as well.



Why get into whataboutism in this thread? take your specific grievances to this thread


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Why get into whataboutism in this thread? take your specific grievances to this thread


I wasn’t trying to I was just responding to some questions on this thread


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 22, 2020)

*If you have concerns about a post, just report it and staff will address it. 

Try to keep this specific to the protests. *


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

I'll post the tweets individually, but it's a thread.  It appears like it's time to bring the DC NG back out.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275225225920208897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275225615583588352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275232893200105477

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275237044076363777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275238569649504256


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 22, 2020)

That tall blonde is kinda hawt....til she starts to talk.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 22, 2020)

Well this didn't last as long as I thought. 

BREAKING: Seattle mayor announces that police are returning to occupied zone


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Well this didn't last as long as I thought.
> 
> BREAKING: Seattle mayor announces that police are returning to occupied zone



The Mayor really needs to take the word "peace" and "peacefully" out of her lexicon when it comes to retaking the CHOP.  I highly doubt that shipwreck of a failed rapper warlord is going anywhere "peacefully".   This is way worse than the Bundy Ranch, and we went after him over past due rent.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Would this be better for a social worker to visit?


Getting your tactics from the reporter in Syria.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 22, 2020)

Just some peaceful protesters blowing up a homeless guy...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275218781845905408


----------



## Raptor (Jun 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Just some peaceful protesters blowing up a homeless guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Says the post is no longer available.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 23, 2020)

> "We actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular, we're trained organizers. We are trained Marxists. We are super versed on ideological theories."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 23, 2020)

Florida173 said:


>


What we're seeing is multi-generational marxist infiltration of our education system. Think about how many asses have to be educating kids right now that are telling them it's totally ok to wipe history out.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (Jun 23, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Figured Doge summed up the insanity of that situation.
> 
> View attachment 34559


The first thing I honestly thought was that's a nice lawn.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 23, 2020)

I remember seeing this over the weekend.  The people in control of the CHAZ are creating segregated zones. 

Seattle ‘Autonomous Zone’ Creates Black-Only Segregated Area


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I remember seeing this over the weekend.  The people in control of the CHAZ are creating segregated zones.
> 
> Seattle ‘Autonomous Zone’ Creates Black-Only Segregated Area



All politics is a struggle for ultimate power.  Identity politics is no different.  It's never about "equality," it's always about "power."  This isn't unique to the left, or to the violence we're currently seeing, but that's what is currently ascendant.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 23, 2020)

Delegate Norton (D-DC) is seeking he removal of the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Memorial and the Andrew Jackson statue in Lafayette Park. 

Norton puts Emancipation statue in Lincoln Park under scrutiny for removal | WTOP


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 23, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> All politics is a struggle for ultimate power.  Identity politics is no different.  It's never about "equality," it's always about "power."  This isn't unique to the left, or to the violence we're currently seeing, but that's what is currently ascendant.


When the pendulum shifts, I hope these people are relegated to the dustbin of history and forgotten. Hopefully before they further damage our republic.



ThunderHorse said:


> Delegate Norton (D-DC) is seeking he removal of the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Memorial and the Andrew Jackson statue in Lafayette Park.
> 
> Norton puts Emancipation statue in Lincoln Park under scrutiny for removal | WTOP


People like Norton bring shame to us. Me and mine are newcomers to this country, but this revisionism makes me sick to my core.


----------



## AWP (Jun 24, 2020)

"Batman's pretty cool, good thing that could never happen here."


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 24, 2020)

In Madison, WI last night, the mob brought down the statue of a staunch abolitionist. They also pulled down a statue commemorating the suffrage movement, and beat the shit out of an openly gay state senator for daring to get pix of Col. Heg’s statue upon the ground.

Folks on Twitter are blaming white supremacists, of course. 😒💤


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 24, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> In Madison, WI last night, the mob brought down the statue of a staunch abolitionist. They also pulled down a statue commemorating the suffrage movement, and beat the shit out of an openly gay state senator for daring to get pix of Col. Heg’s statue upon the ground.
> 
> Folks on Twitter are blaming white supremacists, of course. 😒💤


Yeah, white supremacists from "out of state" were also blamed for the destruction in Minneapolis.  Yet, all arrest records and video show otherwise.  It's like Bubba Wallace, the whole narrative is a lie.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 24, 2020)

Apparently Iraqi style hold up's and sectarian beatdowns are common in Michigan.

Lansing





Flint


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 24, 2020)

I guess movie budgets are going to rise. 

Celebs Demand Studios 'Divest from Police' to 'Prove Black Lives Matter to Hollywood'


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 24, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> In Madison, WI last night, the mob brought down the statue of a staunch abolitionist. They also pulled down a statue commemorating the suffrage movement, and beat the shit out of an openly gay state senator for daring to get pix of Col. Heg’s statue upon the ground.
> 
> Folks on Twitter are blaming white supremacists, of course. 😒💤



And Gov. Walker straight up declared he will activate the Guard if this shit continues, which I'm down for when you try to storm the Capitol and beat up a politician. Especially when the mayor here talks a big game in public, and directs the police differently behind closed doors.

Oh, and they fire bombed the city county building with molotov cocktails last night too.

I got to watch some of the crazy from my apartment window.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 24, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> And Gov. Walker straight up declared he will activate the Guard if this shit continues, which I'm down for when you try to storm the Capitol and beat up a politician. Especially when the mayor here talks a big game in public, and directs the police differently behind closed doors.
> 
> Oh, and they fire bombed the city county building with molotov cocktails last night too.
> 
> I got to watch some of the crazy from my apartment window.


Wouldn't we say it's been past time for that?  These shipwrecks are attacking everything.  Time for LEADERS to LEAD, and cut the bullshit.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 24, 2020)

If this man had a “D” by his name instead of an “R”, would you take his words more or less serious? These are the games that are played at the highest levels across the country.

Sad really.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=984221735343137


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If this man had a “D” by his name instead of an “R”, would you take his words more or less serious? These are the games that are played at the highest levels across the country.
> 
> Sad really.


Intersectional Identity Politics.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 24, 2020)

Well, this is a bonkers idea.

GOP House Candidate Insists George Floyd Killing Was Staged


On a side note; I know parties will just let these sacrificial lambs run in races where they have no chance of winning (usually) but can't they (both D and R) at least try to do better than these absolute nutjobs?


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> On a side note; I know parties will just let these sacrificial lambs run in races where they have no chance of winning (usually) but can't they (both D and R) at least try to do better than these absolute nutjobs?


In a word, no. Alabama put up Roy Moore, and we’re being courted to vote for an Alzheimer’s patient...


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If this man had a “D” by his name instead of an “R”, would you take his words more or less serious? These are the games that are played at the highest levels across the country.
> 
> Sad really.
> 
> ...



As an outsider, I'm of a firm belief that the Democrat's are not willing to let Trump or the Republican's have any victory, due to the election.   It's an ideological war and has nothing to do with what is best for the people.   The same thing is happening in Canada.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 24, 2020)

Police: Murder suspect shot security guard outside bar, then chased him inside & kept shooting

It turns that Abercrombie and I were in the same battalion at the same time, just different companies. RIP Marine. We've got the watch now.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Well, this is a bonkers idea.
> 
> GOP House Candidate Insists George Floyd Killing Was Staged
> 
> ...


I thought I knew which theory you were talking about- I’m glad I clicked the link before I replied because this is a _different George Floyd conspiracy theory. _

The other one is contingent upon the fact that no one in the video anywhere can be seen wearing a mask. That one was proven almost certainly false. I think the time of knowing things to be ‘true’ and ‘not true’ may be gone

PolitiFact - Floyd’s death wasn’t filmed before the pandemic


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 25, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Police: Murder suspect shot security guard outside bar, then chased him inside & kept shooting
> 
> It turns that Abercrombie and I were in the same battalion at the same time, just different companies. RIP Marine. We've got the watch now.


Godspeed Marine. 

This shit is making me angry.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 25, 2020)

Well, we're living in those times again. Tree of Liberty and all that...


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 25, 2020)

I guess Toronto is now going to have another layer of bureaucracy for non violent calls.  

Toronto mayor tables motion that would see changes to policing


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 25, 2020)

Interesting article that involves both Dave Grossman ("On Killing") and modern policing:​*LTC Dave Grossman On Building Cops Who Cannot Fail Us*



> When speaking to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman for this article—famed author of “On Combat” (2004) and “On Killing” (1995), two works that have persisted for years as practically required reading for military and law enforcement—he references an anecdote he encountered recently of two soldiers engaged in a firefight. Bullets whizzing over their heads, one turns to the other and says, “Well, at least this isn’t as bad as Ranger School.” An Army Ranger, Paratrooper, and former West Point Psychology Professor, Grossman knows that of which he speaks. The training should always, whenever possible, be tougher than the fight. “You don’t rise to the occasion; you fall to the level of your training:” that’s both the adage in martial arts and throughout the military, he tells me. The problem, I seek out Grossman to ask, is: are we sufficiently training our law enforcement officers in this way?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 25, 2020)

Businesses in CHAZ sue Seattle: Capitol Hill businesses sue Seattle over handling of 'CHOP' zone


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 25, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Interesting article that involves both Dave Grossman ("On Killing") and modern policing:​*LTC Dave Grossman On Building Cops Who Cannot Fail Us*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



John Oliver tells me that Grossman is problematic.. so I can't listen to him


----------



## Johca (Jun 25, 2020)

Part of the pressure to do away with policing is an arrest record keeps one in poverty (low paying jobs).  No cops=no arresting which by some thinking will result in less arresting which mean less poverty.  But the logic doesn't consider if crime is increasing, what will reduce the number of criminal mischief (nobody get killed or hurt) and criminal acts (rape, murder, spousal/child abuse).

FBI statistics in 1955 estimated 1 of 15 persons in the United States’ working age population had been arrested and fingerprinted for the commission, or alleged commission, of criminal acts. By 2012, statistics assert 1 of 3 persons in the United States had an arrest record by the age of 23.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/w...l-Records-Poverty-and-Opportunity-Profile.pdf


----------



## CQB (Jun 25, 2020)

It curious reasoning, but I’m sure there’s more to the argument: less law enforcement leads to a positive economic outcome.


----------



## Johca (Jun 25, 2020)

A valid perspective as positive economic outcome is reduction in unemployability and increased hire opportunity to the higher paying and more attractive jobs.  The accompanying silent assertion (or prediction) is this will lower crime or at least shift the crime to less violent so called white collar crimes.

The assertion of " The U.S. poverty rate would have dropped by 20 percent if not for the trend of mass incarceration over the past several decades" has  complication of what was the unemployment rate each year and inconvenience of unemployment rate being higher in some cities and areas than others.   Presuming all have equal ability there is still problem of being able doesn't necessarily have accompaniment of being willing to get qualified (training and education) or having equal access to the training and education to do those jobs.  Crime will still happen that needs to be responded to investigated and lead in an arrest for the courts to deal with.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 26, 2020)

BlueLeaks: Activist Group Publishes More Than 1 Million Police and...

Fusion centers aren't informationally secured too well, it seems.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 26, 2020)




----------



## Kaldak (Jun 26, 2020)

At least he is being equitable in who he goes after.



> Attorney General Bill Barr directed the creation of a task force to counter anti-government extremists, specifically naming those who support the far-right “boogaloo” movement and those who identify as Antifa.
> 
> The task force will be headed by Craig Carpenito, the U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey, and Erin Nealy Cox, U.S. Attorney for the district of Northern Texas, and will be composed of U.S. Attorneys’ Offices, the FBI and other relevant departments, according to a press release. The group will share information with local and state law enforcement and will provide training on identifying anti-government extremists, according to an internal Justice Department memo.



https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-signs-executive-order-to-protect-american-monuments


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 26, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> At least he is being equitable in who he goes after.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump signs executive order to protect American monuments, memorials and statues


Eh... not really. The so called 'Boogaloo" is kind of an inside joke. It's ridiculous anyone right of left, who is discontent with govt overreach, is gonna be targeted. Leftist Marxists riot, rape, kill, burn, and destroy our collective history, but for some reason right wing groups are a worry. 

There's little wonder why American's are gearing up, getting in shape, and buying up all the ammo around them. Big gov doesn't have the common citizens back. Meanwhile leftist politicians/bureaucrats are scraping and sniveling to a bunch of Marxist savages, that will quite happily slit our collective throats and toss us into a shallow ditch.

As this thing continues though, I'm starting to empathize more and more with the White Russians of 1918.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> My little burg has already seen an uptick in crime as cops are becoming, ah, "less timely" in responding to calls. I know a lot of cops here, and almost to a person now their goal is to make it home at the end of the shift. Several are looking at positions in smaller departments about 20 or 30 miles out, more rural departments, where they are not besieged by most of the issues going on in cities.


Seeing the exact same in my area now.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 26, 2020)




----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 27, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Eh... not really. The so called 'Boogaloo" is kind of an inside joke. It's ridiculous anyone right of left, who is discontent with govt overreach, is gonna be targeted. Leftist Marxists riot, rape, kill, burn, and destroy our collective history, but for some reason right wing groups are a worry.
> 
> There's little wonder why American's are gearing up, getting in shape, and buying up all the ammo around them. Big gov doesn't have the common citizens back. Meanwhile leftist politicians/bureaucrats are scraping and sniveling to a bunch of Marxist savages, that will quite happily slit our collective throats and toss us into a shallow ditch.
> 
> As this thing continues though, I'm starting to empathize more and more with the White Russians of 1918.



All the data tends to point towards most Domestic Terrorism being far-right/alt-right affiliated groups.

Violence by far-right is among US’s most dangerous terrorist threats, study finds

Now, we could get into a discussion about how right wing groups are more likely to have traditional organization/planning structures whereas leftists groups are more centered around "Ideals" and less rigid leadership organization, so this probably skews the data.

ETA: This sorta circles back to that "is BLM a group or a movement" question I asked a week or two back. There is definitely that BLM group created by marxists, but they've also effectively turned it into a movement in which many splinter groups are not aligned with/have no knowledge of the original group. In effect, they've attached their tendrils to a social movement that would have happened with or without them are are attempting to steer the ship.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 27, 2020)

I didn't bother doing a Hitler Video for the elections....but had some fun doing this instead....

Good luck Minneapolis


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 27, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> All the data tends to point towards most Domestic Terrorism being far-right/alt-right affiliated groups.
> 
> Violence by far-right is among US’s most dangerous terrorist threats, study finds
> 
> ...



Can you give me an example of a far-right extremist group that you believe the authorities should start looking at? You keep bringing it up as if our government has been ignoring something.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 27, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Can you give me an example of a far-right extremist group that you believe the authorities should start looking at? You keep bringing it up as if our government has been ignoring something.



These are just the ones I remember off the top of my head which could be considered "right wing" terrorism. As we've discussed on here before, "right vs. left" doesn't really work to well, but it's sort of the only metric we have now.

Two recent ones

Boogaloo arrests reveal new extremist agenda to hijack protests

Far-right 'boogaloo boys' linked to killing of California law officers and other violence

Two older ones 

There was another right-wing terrorist incident this weekend.

Coast Guard lieutenant, dubbed 'domestic terrorist,' had hit list of media bigs and Dem lawmakers: prosecutors

My point isn't that the government is ignoring it; they catch a lot of these (statistically) dudes before something pops off.

If we want to talk about the propensity to judge the group vs the "individual who happened to be a member of a group" based on how much we(general we, not you/me specific) agree with their politics/actions/methods/etc., that's something we can dive into.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 27, 2020)

Not ignoring, just investigating and charging on other charges...as there is no Domestic Terrorism statute. It's just recently (past 3-4 years) the media and govt statements are using the term domestic terrorism for more than they use to.

IMHO.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 27, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> *My point isn't that the government is ignoring it; they catch a lot of these (statistically) dudes before something pops off.*



Do you mind being a bit more concise on what your actual point is? 

In the theme of a thread about George Floyd and the BLM protests that are dramatically more left leaning with far left extremists taking the advantage of the situation, you want to keep bringing up far right exceptions to this global movement. I think we all get it and you have provided some great examples of how people in the government are indeed spending a lot of time catching these guys too. Now it's great our government might spend some more resources defeating the far left networks that are as likely as being motivated by foreign adversaries as the other side.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 27, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Yale decided that the title "master" for the heads of all of its internal colleges was "problematic," because, you know, racism.  And instead of putting their foot down and saying "that's silly," Yale caved.  Decisions on Residential College Names and “Master” Title
> 
> I suspect the Yale name will continue, there is too much money and prestige at stake.  However, I predict that Yale will throw a WHOLE bunch of money at this problem, probably hire a bunch of "diverse" faculty and create programs and spaces that are exclusively for use by persons of color.


Princeton is pussing out...
Princeton will remove Woodrow Wilson's name from school


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 27, 2020)

Michael Johnson speaks with Prince Harry, Meghan Markle about Madison protests

Didn't we win a war to keep that family out of our business?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Princeton is pussing out...
> Princeton will remove Woodrow Wilson's name from school



So, legit question: at what point in one's life or career does the benefits outweigh any racist or bigotry behavior? For instance, if he had cured cancer they still take his name off? If he invented the light bulb, would they have taken his name off?  Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, check, I get it. No problem. But some of the people, they're throwing the baby out with the bath water.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So, legit question: at what point in one's life or career does the benefits outweigh any racist or bigotry behavior? For instance, if he had cured cancer they still take his name off? If he invented the light bulb, would they have taken his name off?  Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, check, I get it. No problem. But some of the people, they're throwing the baby out with the bath water.



I'd like to give you answer, but I'm starting to feel like one doesn't exist, sadly.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So, legit question: at what point in one's life or career does the benefits outweigh any racist or bigotry behavior? For instance, if he had cured cancer they still take his name off? If he invented the light bulb, would they have taken his name off?  Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, check, I get it. No problem. But some of the people, they're throwing the baby out with the bath water.



It never ends.  It will never be enough.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 27, 2020)

I'm sure every member on this board along with the general public would admit, at some point in life, to making some comment, direct or otherwise that could be construed as offensive.

It doesn't make everyone racist. In my opinion, a not very elegant one, is there are lists of open and avowed racism that should be targeted before statues of people like Lincoln. Groups, organizations, you name it. I'm pretty sure Lincoln and Washington are low on those lists.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2020)

Feds Bust Black Lives Matter Organizer for Blackmailing Local Businesses - Frontpagemag


Federal prosecutors brought extortion charges Friday against the man whose arrest this week sparked violence and destruction in the capital city.

U.S. Attorney Scott Blader filed the charges against Devonere Johnson, alleging he threatened to bash windows of downtown businesses unless employees gave him money. 

Blader also alleges Johnson, 28, threatened to "shut down and destroy" another business unless Johnson and his friends were provided free food and drinks. 

In one restaurant, Johnson allegedly brought a boombox indoors and refused to turn it down. When the owner told Johnson he donated money to a group supporting the Black Lives Matter campaign, Johnson asked what he had done "locally."

Ultimately, Johnson allegedly told the owner "give me money or we'll break windows," according to the criminal complaint. 

Johnson entered another bar and allegedly asked for free food and drinks or else the bar would be "marked," according to the complaint.

"You don't want 600 people to come here and destroy your business and burn it down. The cops are on our side," according to the complaint, which included interviews with the bar owner about what Johnson allegedly said. "You notice that when you call them, nothing happens to us."


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 28, 2020)

What were seeing was never about speech, history, or the morality of slavery. We're seeing the early stages of a Marxist revolt. The useful idiots in MSM, Social Media, ANTIFA, BLM, and all the other useful idiots are using race to launch an assault on our Republic.

There is no reasoning with these people. American or not they aim to rule the rest of us or crush us underneath.


----------



## AWP (Jun 28, 2020)

Whatever will people do when they find out about Lincoln? 



> I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.



Abraham Lincoln, Fourth Debate with Stephen Douglas, Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858 | House Divided

Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln.  Volume 3.

What Abraham Lincoln Thought About Slavery


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> Whatever will people do when they find out about Lincoln?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



People who actually read and don't refer to wiki pages would find all sorts of amazing things about their nation's favorite son, Abraham Lincoln.  

How he makes the top five list of favorite or best presidents is beyond me. You talk about a president who shredded the Constitution, far worse than Roosevelt ever did, far worse than any other president. Add his views about slavery, You get yourself a guy who, yes, kept the nation together, but he sold his soul to the devil to do it.

#notmyfavoritepresident


----------



## Grunt (Jun 28, 2020)

What president throughout history wasn't a clown in their own way.

They are all human and all have flaws. I can certainly find trash in all their lives and histories.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 28, 2020)

Seishin said:


> What president throughout history wasn't a clown in their own way.
> 
> They are all human and all have flaws. I can certainly find trash in all their lives and histories.


What is MOST frustrating about this insanity is that we are trying to judge yesterday, by today’s standards.


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Jun 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What is MOST frustrating about this insanity is that we are trying to judge yesterday, by today’s standards.



This.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2020)

Seishin said:


> What president throughout history wasn't a clown in their own way.
> 
> They are all human and all have flaws. I can certainly find trash in all their lives and histories.



That is true, but that is only part of the point. Part of it is what @Ooh-Rah mentioned, and part of it is the deification of a politician to fit your agenda.  Plus, people have confirmation bias as well as very small grasp of history. There's nothing new under the sun, and every president going back to Washington had demons.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What is MOST frustrating about this insanity is that we are trying to judge yesterday, by today’s standards.


This x million.

Clearly a lot of people slept though or absent from history class.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So, legit question: at what point in one's life or career does the benefits outweigh any racist or bigotry behavior? For instance, if he had cured cancer they still take his name off? If he invented the light bulb, would they have taken his name off?  Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, check, I get it. No problem. But some of the people, they're throwing the baby out with the bath water.


Margaret Sanger was an avowed eugenicist, and would certainly fit the mold to be called racist. However, she’s immune to being canceled. Work from there.


----------



## SOSTCRNA (Jun 28, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Margaret Sanger was an avowed eugenicist, and would certainly fit the mold to be called racist. However, she’s immune to being canceled. Work from there.


So sad and so true


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jun 28, 2020)

^^^I was one of them. I didn't realize Kentucky was part of the Union, I thought it was the beginning of the south.

Lincoln said if he could keep the Union without freeing one slave, he would, or if he had to free all of the slaves to do so, he would. Typical politician.

In the end, he freed the slaves.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 28, 2020)

I can’t help but wonder if they made the request for their safety, or to have stage props readily available for the cameras to capture them protesting against.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276938083116691458


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2020)

Minneapolis City Council is spending $4,500 a day on private security.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276893090117287936


AWP said:


> Whatever will people do when they find out about Lincoln?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's already here: UW-Madison students call for removal of Abraham Lincoln statue on Bascom Hill


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's already here: UW-Madison students call for removal of Abraham Lincoln statue on Bascom Hill




This has gotten past the point of being old a hot minute ago.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2020)

Today...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277424045814931456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277419635185537024


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 29, 2020)

Is 'brazen daylight shooting' the nice way to say execution these days?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Today...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277424045814931456
> ...


Initial breaching of the property by the useful idiots. Chanting, "Whose street? Ours street!" Never mind they popped over a fence onto private property.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277446074244816896


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Initial breaching of the property by the useful idiots. Chanting, "Whose street? Ours street!" Never mind they popped over a fence onto private property.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277446074244816896


That's helpful, I had already assumed they were on his property and weren't just on the sidewalk.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> That's helpful, I had already assumed they were on his property and weren't just on the sidewalk.


Yep, though the cretinous useful idiots in the MSM ain't gonna paint it that way when they broadcast it. Same with the deep state bureaucrats and intel weenies who are gonna try and label polo homie and his girl as white supremacists. 

Gotta give every proof you can and even then people will still rush to defend the useful idiots.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

Myself and @R.Caerbannog  posted the videos in the Disband the cops thread.  But this is why the "Liberal Media" is full of shit.  Spreading blatant lies to for their internal agenda.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277554660140818432


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> But this is why the "Liberal Media" is full of shit. Spreading blatant lies to for their internal agenda.


What was the lie?  If you are going to say 'pointing guns', I don't think it was a like at all.
Pink polo shirt acts like he's never held a rifle before and Karen sweeps that silver pistol around like a pointer finger.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What was the lie?  If you are going to say 'pointing guns', I don't think it was a like at all.
> Pink polo shirt acts like he's never held a rifle before and Karen sweeps that silver pistol around like a pointer finger.



As I said in the post, the videos are in the disband the cops thread.  The "protesters" invaded private property.  They were on his property.  So yes, it is a lie.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> As I said in the post, the videos are in the disband the cops thread.  The "protesters" invaded private property.  They were on his property.  So yes, it is a lie.


1 - Was she waving the pistol around sweeping the crowd?  Yes.
2 - Is he holding that rifle at an angle that is also sweeping the crowd?  Yes.
3 - Does that mean they were 'point the guns'? Yes.

Help me understand 'the lie'.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 29, 2020)

Jeez man, do those guys live in an art museum? That house is wild!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

Facts:
1.  St Louis has been wracked with Violence over the past several weeks.
2.  Perimeter of private property was breached by "protesters".
3.  Home owner defended his property.  

Maybe I'm jaded, but it is very clear that this is yellow journalism attempting to paint the property owner as a racist and not just as someone defending his home.  Which, he was.

Under Missouri's self defense laws, he has the ability to use Deadly Force when on his property.  He does not need to be "inside" the house.  He also has no duty to retreat.

Missouri Self-Defense Laws - FindLaw


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 29, 2020)

@Ooh-Rah , I agree with your points.  I think the hang-up is with the term in the tweet of "protesters," whereas they illegally gained entry into that neighborhood, and was on that guy's property.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Jeez man, do those guys live in an art museum? That house is wild!



A billion dollar house and a $100 Hi-Point....

I don't live in a private neighborhood, so I don't know how I would react if they were on my street.  But on my property?  I got no problem with it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

Yikes: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277581647060316160


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> A billion dollar house and a $100 Hi-Point....
> 
> I don't live in a private neighborhood, so I don't know how I would react if they were on my street.  But on my property?  I got no problem with it.


Splitting hairs, but I think she actually has a PPK, or at least something approximating it.  Maybe a Bersa Thunder in hard chrome?  They look like PPKs if you squint hard enough.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Splitting hairs, but I think she actually has a PPK, or at least something approximating it.  Maybe a Bersa Thunder in hard chrome?  They look like PPKs if you squint hard enough.



I would hope with that kind of money it would be a PPK and not a Hi-Point lol....


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 29, 2020)




----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 29, 2020)

The way she was waving that pistol around makes me wonder if she's going to end up getting charged with a crime.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 29, 2020)

St Louis area has been a shit hole for years.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Splitting hairs, but I think she actually has a PPK, or at least something approximating it.  Maybe a Bersa Thunder in hard chrome?  They look like PPKs if you squint hard enough.



Looks like a Kimber Solo stainless.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 29, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Jun 29, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Jeez man, do those guys live in an art museum? That house is wild!



Looks like they've been fixing it up since the 80's.

https://www.stlmag.com/design/a-decades-long-renovation-returns-a-midwestern-palazzo-to-it/


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 29, 2020)

I'm sure a bunch of this deserves to go, I'm glad that it was a broad banning and not just one part of the spectrum if idiots.  But I have a feeling the thought police will be full in crazy soon. 

VICE - Reddit Bans 2,000 Communities Including the_donald, ChapoTrapHouse


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 29, 2020)

*Cops Have Been Screaming for Criminal Justice Reform* 

"Criminal Justice Reform has been a topic of discussion and outright anger by many law enforcement agencies. We’ve had officers killed by individuals who should not be out of jail. We’ve victims of domestic violence get hurt again by their abuser because they were let out early More recently, due to COVID-19, judges are releasing some violent individuals back to society and surprise, surprise, they are reoffending. The other one that we have been fighting for is mental health. Our officers are inundated with mental health calls. These are two subjects that need to be addressed."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

The couple are Democrats, one of their current clients is a victim of police brutality.

On mobile so I'll share the tweet later. Or you can check Benny Johnson's twitter.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Looks like a Kimber Solo stainless.



NVM...not a Kimber Solo...not sure what it is.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 29, 2020)

In the fucking trigger well. Com'on.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

They were verbally threatened. Can't blame them for being ready. But I can blame her for how she carried it!


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 29, 2020)

Those two people are the direction this country is moving. As non-gun households are becoming fearful they are purchasing weapons. Just wait till the police have even lower morale and stop coming out for most calls.


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Those two people are the direction this country is moving. As non-gun households are becoming fearful they are purchasing weapons. Just wait till the police have even lower morale and stop coming out for most calls.



I hope we don't end up there. That's a bad picture.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 29, 2020)

The first pic is the gate that the protestors breached. The second pic is the sign further in their property that states “Private property. No trespassing” in rather large, ornate letters (Street is a misnomer, as it’s really a huge driveway). 

With Missouri being a “castle doctrine” state, these folks can easily mount a defense based on that. However, I can’t guarantee that they’ll make their savings throw vs penalty-for-poor-training.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 29, 2020)

View attachment 34643
[/QUOTE]

So how do we know he has zero training?



Kraut783 said:


> NVM...not a Kimber Solo...not sure what it is.
> 
> View attachment 34650


I'd go Bersa for 380 Alex.

She scares me more then he does.  By scare, I mean appears clueless.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 29, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> View attachment 34643
> So how do we know he has zero training?
> 
> 
> ...


Holding his weapon like that? I’d wager that the difference in amount of training rounds between the two would be minuscule. He may be a better shot, but I’d trust neither one with an Airsoft rifle.


----------



## AWP (Jun 29, 2020)

Oh boy, strong work in LA with this proposal. 

Los Angeles proposes slashing law enforcement budget, including elimination of Special Victims Bureau



> The CEO's proposed budget, as per the LASD, recommends the following LASD units be eliminated:
> 
> • Safe Streets Bureau (Gang Enforcement)
> • Parks Bureau
> ...



#MeToo, alive and well in LA...


----------



## GOTWA (Jun 29, 2020)

I've hit the point where shit is so absurd that it's comical.


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 29, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've hit the point where shit is so absurd that it's comical.




I've been at that point for a little bit now, but defending, no wait sorry, removing your cities SVU? It's so fucked that even I can't find anything to laugh at. My asshole inner self wants to say fuck it, let them reap what they sow.


----------



## 757 (Jun 29, 2020)




----------



## 757 (Jun 29, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277430912653950976
Meanwhile, in Detroit


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

757 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277430912653950976
> Meanwhile, in Detroit


Rioters, pretending to be protesters, surround law enforcement in vehicle.  Law Enforcement make the only decision there is and exfil via vehicle.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.



racing_kitty said:


> The first pic is the gate that the protestors breached. The second pic is the sign further in their property that states “Private property. No trespassing” in rather large, ornate letters (Street is a misnomer, as it’s really a huge driveway).
> 
> With Missouri being a “castle doctrine” state, these folks can easily mount a defense based on that. However, I can’t guarantee that they’ll make their savings throw vs penalty-for-poor-training.
> 
> View attachment 34653View attachment 34654



I would hazard that this historic gate gets a 10 foot high concrete wall put in behind it at the next HOA meeting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

Another Murder in the CHAZ:  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277648374808711176


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The couple are Democrats, one of their current clients is a victim of police brutality.
> 
> On mobile so I'll share the tweet later. Or you can check Benny Johnson's twitter.


Causes that the McCloskeys support?  All things that advance social justice.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277691917199904768
So yeah, they brandished their firearms on their property.  So that means they're good.  Every headline that focuses on them is an agenda focused headline. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277646277082337282
Interview with Mark McCloskey, J.D.:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277695840883220481


----------



## Andoni (Jun 30, 2020)

In Cali, they arrested the


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Causes that the McCloskeys support?  All things that advance social justice.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277691917199904768
> So yeah, they brandished their firearms on their property.  So that means they're good.  Every headline that focuses on them is an agenda focused headline.
> ...


LOL! Wow... wonder if they're still gonna drink the DNC kool-aid after this. 

It's hilarious to me that the more affluent parts of the US are finally getting a crash course in ghetto/hood rat culture. Enablers are just as bad as the rioters.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

How is a wealthy person an enabler? Just because you have money doesn't make you a jack ass.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

So now the Canadian flag needs a disclaimer... 

FUREY: How sad that even our flag now comes with a disclaimer


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

Oh Mayor Jenny...sucks to suck, you played a stupid game with your support of CHAZ instead of LEADING, and now they're outside your freaking house!  Cut the nonsense and lead!

Protesters march to Seattle Mayor Durkan's house as 'CHOP' scene continues

ETA: Provo, random "protester" attack on an SUV.  I will SAY AGAIN.  Protests are over, what's left is just criminal elements that masquerade as protesters and our Law Enforcement are risk averse, under siege, and without political support.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278001441248907264


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> How is a wealthy person an enabler? Just because you have money doesn't make you a jack ass.



He may be writing this poorly, but much earlier in the Floyd you had some blue check former NBA player cheering on the burning of buildings in Minneapolis and looting in LA.  But then they started to come into his gated subdivision and he was like NO, STAY OUT, WE CARE ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY.

And I just posted in the Floyd thread, many of these Mayors and Governors have been enablers.  And now the "protests" are coming directly to their doorstep.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> He may be writing this poorly, but much earlier in the Floyd you had some blue check former NBA player cheering on the burning of buildings in Minneapolis and looting in LA.  But then they started to come into his gated subdivision and he was like NO, STAY OUT, WE CARE ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY.
> 
> And I just posted in the Floyd thread, many of these Mayors and Governors have been enablers.  And now the "protests" are coming directly to their doorstep.



So because one wealthy person does that means that all wealthy do? Under that same argument I could say that all poor people are lazy or any other generalized statement. It's ridiculous.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 30, 2020)

757 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277430912653950976
> Meanwhile, in Detroit


All powerful when you think the cops can't respond, then start screaming like a 3 year old.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> How is a wealthy person an enabler? Just because you have money doesn't make you a jack ass.


Having resources doesn't make you a jackass, but supporting and funding the degenerates behind Antifa and BLM is. These useful idiots empower the criminal classes, while leaving the rest of us trapped with a bunch of lawless animals. Cause guess who is pushing the 'diversity' and 'equity' line? It ain't your blue collar workers or small business owners, they got bills to pay.

So yeah... I hope the wealthy idiots who supported this BS get eaten by their own.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> So because one wealthy person does that means that all wealthy do? Under that same argument I could say that all poor people are lazy or any other generalized statement. It's ridiculous.


Excepting that it hasn't been "one" it's been A LOT.  The White Liberal isn't really down for the cause. The rich white liberal will write their check to a cause that will make them feel good.  But they're just as racist as the wackos in the South that they make fun of.

This couple? I don't necessarily agree with @R.Caerbannog on the McCloskeys being enablers. They've shown through their work that they've fought against Police Brutality. What they don't believe in, clearly, is their rights being trampled and are willing to exercise their second amendment rights to defend them. But the Liberal Media tries to paint them as bad actors. 

Guess what that means, the walls will only be built thicker and higher by the rich folk.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Excepting that it hasn't been "one" it's been A LOT.  The White Liberal isn't really down for the cause. The rich white liberal will write their check to a cause that will make them feel good.  But they're just as racist as the wackos in the South that they make fun of.



That's an awful lot of generalization. Of course the wealthy donate more money than the poor. Some of it is to make them feel good, some is for tax purposes, and some is because they generally believe in whatever it is they are supporting. The real BLM movement is not rioting. Yes there are blacks, whites, and any other race claiming they support BLM while really just using it as a front to be lawless shit heads, but not every wealthy white person fits the mold you describe. 



R.Caerbannog said:


> Having resources doesn't make you a jackass, but supporting and funding the degenerates behind Antifa and BLM is. These useful idiots empower the criminal classes, while leaving the rest of us trapped with a bunch of lawless animals. Cause guess who is pushing the 'diversity' and 'equity' line? It ain't your blue collar workers or small business owners, they got bills to pay.
> 
> So yeah... I hope the wealthy idiots who supported this BS get eaten by their own.



This isnt what you originally said. And I stand behind what I said above about the BLM movement. Dont contort Antifa and BLM together.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> That's an awful lot of generalization. Of course the wealthy donate more money than the poor. Some of it is to make them feel good, some is for tax purposes, and some is because they generally believe in whatever it is they are supporting. The real BLM movement is not rioting. Yes there are blacks, whites, and any other race claiming they support BLM while really just using it as a front to be lawless shit heads, but not every wealthy white person fits the mold you describe.
> 
> This isnt what you originally said. And I stand behind what I said above about the BLM movement. Dont contort Antifa and BLM together.


To reiterate, the people pushing the false premise of 'equity', 'equality', and 'diversity', are those insulated from the damage they shove onto the rest of us and our neighborhoods. Rest of the country is too busy working to partake in a false fantasy.

Considering their previous political donations and activism, before the link was memory holed, I'm enjoying the irony of the situation.


Spoiler







Antifa, BLM, etc... I dunno man, a Marxist by any other name is still a Marxist.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

What is marxist about BLM?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What is marxist about BLM?


It's founders and the game they're playing with the black community. It's basically a shell game for fomenting Marxist dissent under the guise of addressing racial inequality. They are no friends to our Republic.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What is marxist about BLM?



I feel like I'm having flashbacks from the george floyd thread. 

Outside of one of the co-founders actually saying it. One could argue that she's just a rando that doesn't lead it.. sure.. but what do the socialists say about it? Well from five years ago at least, it's definitely evolved since then.



> The BLM movement opens a new powerful chapter. The previous radical black freedom movement always had powerful anti-capitalist, socialist, and internationalist currents. Today black and Latino youth are increasingly open to the ideas of socialism and Marxism. Let’s engage this movement with confidence, armed with our ideas and the lessons of history. The struggle of the multiracial working class for socialist change is the beginning of overcoming racial division. Overthrowing capitalism cannot end all aspects of racism overnight, but it can do away with the exploitation that lays the basis for class society’s divide-and-rule approach. There is no other road. Black liberation can only be won through the socialist transformation of society.



Black Lives Matter and Marxism


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

Here's Mark Levin giving some commentary on it


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What is marxist about BLM?


One of the founders stated that she was a "Trained Marxist".  Several of us have posted links and videos about this.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

Again, get past those who are claiming to be BLM and aren't. 

There is a higher percentage of blacks having force used agaisnt them than whites. Data doesn't say why,  but the numbers say that on average blacks have are 25% more likely than whites to have force used agaisnt them. 

View attachment 34667


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Again, get past those who are claiming to be BLM and aren't.
> 
> There is a higher percentage of blacks having force used agaisnt them than whites. Data doesn't say why,  but the numbers say that on average blacks have are 25% more likely than whites to have force used agaisnt them.
> 
> View attachment 34667



Did you just rebuttal the marxist comment with the use of police force? 

We can get into the socioeconomic reasons for the suggested 50% more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. But I gravitate towards this part of the abstract on what actually matters.



> On the most extreme use of force –oﬃcer-involved shootings – we ﬁnd no racial diﬀerences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police oﬃcers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of oﬃcer-involved shootings.


An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Did you just rebuttal the marxist comment with the use of police force?
> 
> We can get into the socioeconomic reasons for the suggested 50% more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. But I gravitate towards this part of the abstract on what actually matters.
> 
> ...



I'm saying that BLM itself is not maxist. We can agree to disagree on that.

Use of force is not defined by police as just shooting. Go deeper than that. That screenshot above is from that article.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I'm saying that BLM itself is not maxist. We can agree to disagree on that.
> 
> Use of force is not defined by police as just shooting. Go deeper than that. That screenshot above is from that article.



But it's not White Cops using force.  White-male law enforcement officers are the least likely to use force.  Minority law enforcement are more likely to use force.  So therefore, how is that tied to racism?  

However, back to the point of my post.  The McCloskeys are Democrats, they have fought for Social Justice.  And the LIBERAL MEDIA is painting them as racists and aggressors.  When they are in fact people that are wholly in the right to defend their property.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I'm saying that BLM itself is not maxist. We can agree to disagree on that.
> 
> Use of force is not defined by police as just shooting. Go deeper than that. That screenshot above is from that article.



I don't know what your attachment is because it doesn't work. I provided proof of why BLM is a Marxist movement. If you can't provide anything on why it's not and circle back to "but police brutality," i don't know what to tell you. I even quoted that it's not 25% but 50% and suggested it's socioeconomic. Gave a link to my source,  Harvard. You haven't yet articulated an argument against.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 30, 2020)

I think @BloodStripe is thinking about this in the same way I am:

BLM is both a Group(which is Marxist in origin) and a larger movement/ideal at this point.

Not everyone involved in the BLM protests/movement is a Marxist, but it's probably a safe bet to say most all Marxists are involved in BLM.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> BLM is both a Group(which is Marxist in origin) and a larger movement/ideal at this point.
> 
> Not everyone involved in the BLM protests/movement is a Marxist, but *it's probably a safe bet to say most all Marxists are involved in BLM*.



I don't think it's safe to say that in any way. There is a ton of inner fighting among the far left. Once the Marxists win, they will eat everyone that doesn't believe what they believe. Go through some of the articles from the socialist site that I posted. You will see a lot of support from socialist movements. Just look at the bus drivers that refused to support law enforcement in moving arrested rioters. 

At some point I think I can look at all the people that are supporting something, and say these people that are so far against my ideology that maybe if they are supporting this, than I should question my support. You think I believe black lives matter, sure, but not enough for me to wash their feet and kiss their boots. It's complete fascism


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I don't know what your attachment is because it doesn't work. I provided proof of why BLM is a Marxist movement. If you can't provide anything on why it's not and circle back to "but police brutality," i don't know what to tell you. I even quoted that it's not 25% but 50% and suggested it's socioeconomic. Gave a link to my source,  Harvard. You haven't yet articulated an argument against.



 BLM is about brutality against them, which is all my argument has ever been about.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> BLM is about brutality against them, which is all my argument has ever been about. View attachment 34672



Other than the fact that the Black Lives Matter Foundation isn't the BLM movement, I typically wouldn't go to an About page on the group in question to see if it tells me that they're Marxist or not.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

I'm guessing, you, @Florida173,  like I am, are not a minority. We didnt have to live through Mike Bloomberg's stop and frisk. We don't have to wake up wondering if our house will be the target of white supremacists. 

Do I agree with everything that BLM is doing? Of course not. For instance they need to look into their own communities and wonder when they will stop killing each other.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

I'm done beating a dead horse. Some of you are so blinded by whatever is driving you,  whether that be deep state conspiracies or Marxist rioters, that you are not seeing the issues that drove this to where it is. We as a country are not that far removed from the Civil War. In fact, the last person receiving a pension just died earlier this year.


----------



## 757 (Jun 30, 2020)

I would be interested to learn how they (blm) define "white supremacy." Is it something along the lines of:

1) "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races and should therefore dominate society." 

Or

2) "any system, practice, expectation, or norm which has the effect of privileging whites over others independent of beliefs about superiority or inferiority."

The distinction matters if one is to have a productive debate on the subject.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

Why do you think it can't be both?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

@BloodStripe you are doing exactly what they want the public to do.  You are assuming that the BLM organization is the same as the BLM movement.   Totally different animals.  

The BLM organization and leadership has openly admitted to being Marxist.  They need to be watched carefully.   The cofounder admitted to being a trained Marxist.  Many of their demands have hallmarks of Marxism.

The BLM Movement is something totally different and is something that should be supported.  

Black Lives Matter co-founder describes herself as ‘trained Marxist’


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> @BloodStripe you are doing exactly what they want the public to do.  You are assuming that the BLM organization is the same as the BLM movement.   Totally different animals.
> 
> The BLM organization and leadership has openly admitted to being Marxist.  They need to be watched carefully.   The cofounder admitted to being a trained Marxist.  Many of their demands have hallmarks of Marxism.
> 
> ...



The video has already been linked on this site multiple times. I did just a few posts up trying to argue that it's Marxist. None of it seems to matter because police brutality.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

Then consider the topic done.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> @BloodStripe you are doing exactly what they want the public to do.  You are assuming that the BLM organization is the same as the BLM movement.   Totally different animals.
> 
> The BLM organization and leadership has openly admitted to being Marxist.  They need to be watched carefully.   The cofounder admitted to being a trained Marxist.  Many of their demands have hallmarks of Marxism.
> 
> ...



I'm merely offering a different perspective since about 95% of the active members on here all agree with you're saying. I've given you what I consider BLM movement. It's the exact definition I posted. Those causing destruction to property are not BLM. 

Someone who I joke with by calling her my work Mom is black. A few years ago her house was spray painted with the words Die (insert derogative term here that starts with the letter N). 

I suggest some of you call up your darker green friends and have a meaningful conversation with them on their thoughts.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

Given the number of squad cars I'd imagine they were sent there to get the protestors to disperse.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I'm merely offering a different perspective since about 95% of the active members on here all agree with you're saying. I've given you what I consider BLM movement. It's the exact definition I posted. Those causing destruction to property are not BLM.
> 
> Someone who I joke with by calling her my work Mom is black. A few years ago her house was spray painted with the words Die (insert derogative term here that starts with the letter N).
> 
> I suggest some of you call up your darker green friends and have a meaningful conversation with them on their thoughts.



When only 1/345 hate crimes end up not being a hoax, it kind of desensitizes a lot of us to caring; especially when you see black on white crime not being considered. Recent Flint Macy's comes to mind

Who are my darker green friends?


Edit: misquoted.. fewer than 1 in 3 of 346 were genuine between 2010 and 2017. 
Hate Crime Hoaxes Are More Common Than You Think | Manhattan Institute


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 30, 2020)

These past few pages are emblematic of the point we're at as a country as whole.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I'm merely offering a different perspective since about 95% of the active members on here all agree with you're saying. I've given you what I consider BLM movement. It's the exact definition I posted. Those causing destruction to property are not BLM.
> 
> Someone who I joke with by calling her my work Mom is black. A few years ago her house was spray painted with the words Die (insert derogative term here that starts with the letter N).
> 
> I suggest some of you call up your darker green friends and have a meaningful conversation with them on their thoughts.



You are trying to have a separate conversation than anyone else.  It is entirely possible for all of the above to be correct and happening at the same time.  

Mod hat on!  This discussion has been dragged on and on, with no results.  So we're finished.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 30, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> When only *1/345 hate crimes end up not being a hoax*, it kind of desensitizes a lot of us to caring; especially when you see black on white crime not being considered.


Hold up - what?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Hold up - what?



We're done with this.  But I'm sure this is what is being referred to. 

Opinion | Hate Crime Hoaxes Are More Common Than You Think


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 30, 2020)

Boo! You beat me to it.



RackMaster said:


> Mod hat on!  This discussion has been dragged on and on, with no results.  So we're finished.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

More hits for those Boogalo Bois. 

VICE - Facebook Just Labeled the Boogaloos a ‘Dangerous Organization’ and Banned 500 Groups and Pages


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> More hits for those Boogalo Bois.
> 
> VICE - Facebook Just Labeled the Boogaloos a ‘Dangerous Organization’ and Banned 500 Groups and Pages


Facebook: "Antifa Groups are all ok by us."


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> More hits for those Boogalo Bois.
> 
> VICE - Facebook Just Labeled the Boogaloos a ‘Dangerous Organization’ and Banned 500 Groups and Pages



I don't know if anyone will think this was a bad idea. Toxic viewpoints grow if they are put into an environment to cultivate. Same with any group where you have people that feel disenfranchised. And since this was co-opted from the gun forums to 4chan to facebook, I would say it has already accelerated a bit too far. They should also be taking down the other socialist-anarchist groups like Antifa. It's good to have a healthy suspicion of the "government," especially with the abuses that have come to light with weaponizing it against political foes.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more of this from your side of the border. I've worked extensively with the CANSOF folks and get a general vibe that no one has liked Trudeau. Has it not led to any fringe movements, or is the RCMP just that good with stomping it out?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

Because you know, why not vandalize Washington.  It's the chic thing to do.

Trump calls for federal charges against George Washington statue vandals


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Facebook: "Antifa Groups are all ok by us."



Yea, I'm not a fan of them keeping up the ANTIFA groups, if those groups have similar things going on within their pages as these Boog ones do. 

I'm sure @R.Caerbannog knows about an ANTIFA page or two that's sharing recipes for Molotovs and calling for violence.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I don't know if anyone will think this was a bad idea. Toxic viewpoints grow if they are put into an environment to cultivate. Same with any group where you have people that feel disenfranchised. And since this was co-opted from the gun forums to 4chan to facebook, I would say it has already accelerated a bit too far. They should also be taking down the other socialist-anarchist groups like Antifa. It's good to have a healthy suspicion of the "government," especially with the abuses that have come to light with weaponizing it against political foes.
> 
> I'm surprised I haven't seen more of this from your side of the border. I've worked extensively with the CANSOF folks and get a general vibe that no one has liked Trudeau. Has it not led to any fringe movements, or is the RCMP just that good with stomping it out?



There's been a few recent case's, the biggest was the Reserve guy/neo nazi; that was picked up in the US. 

FBI arrests Patrik Mathews, missing ex-reservist from Manitoba accused of neo-Nazi ties

A recent update 

Prosecutors in white supremacy case involving Canadian ex-reservist ask for extension


Encyclopedia of hate: A look at the neo-Nazi militant movements with roots in Canada

For the first time, Canada adds white supremacists and neo-Nazi groups to its terror organization list


----------



## AWP (Jun 30, 2020)

Damn, @RackMaster dropping links to support his post and such. Mad lad.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

The 'boogaloo' movement is a LARP/PSYOP. Based on some of the reading I've done, it's more of a warning to overreaching govt and bureaucrats. For some reason though, the thought of the middle and lower class banding together, against tyranny, seems to scare the crap outta liberals & Marxists though.

Probably has something to do with regular folk not going quietly into the night.



Cookie_ said:


> Yea, I'm not a fan of them keeping up the ANTIFA groups, if those groups have similar things going on within their pages as these Boog ones do.
> 
> I'm sure @R.Caerbannog knows about an ANTIFA page or two that's sharing recipes for Molotovs and calling for violence.


I'm not on social media, nor do I associate with Marxists and their ilk. I just scrape information from the internet and my surroundings to try countering the disinformation war going on.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Another Murder in the CHAZ:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277648374808711176


Yeah... that was a straight up execution. Check out the video below. Marxist degens threatening to pistol whip the kids after they shot em. @1:10

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277576381866684416


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I'm not on social media, *nor do I associate with Marxists and their ilk*. I just scrape information from the internet and my surroundings to try countering the disinformation war going on.



Trust me man, everybody on here is aware that you don't.

You do often seem to be pretty good at scraping information of such groups though; if anybody on here was going to be aware of them doing some nefarious shit like I mentioned, it'd probably be you highlighting it first.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> There's been a few recent case's, the biggest was the Reserve guy/neo nazi; that was picked up in the US.
> 
> FBI arrests Patrik Mathews, missing ex-reservist from Manitoba accused of neo-Nazi ties
> 
> ...


But wait, only 1 out 354 reports of white supremacy is true.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Trust me man, everybody on here is aware that you don't.
> 
> You do often seem to be pretty good at scraping information of such groups though; if anybody on here was going to be aware of them doing some nefarious shit like I mentioned, it'd probably be you highlighting it first.


Majority of the time I'm a day late and a dollar short. Information I post is useless after the fact. In the end our fellow Americans paid for that information by being brutalized by Marxists, it being recorded and not censored by chance is a matter of luck.

Having good information is being able to stop these degenerates before they get foot holds and rape, kill, loot, burn, etc.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 30, 2020)

From Provo, UT, of all places. This shit right here is why you NEVER let the rioters surround your car.

A snippet, if you couldn’t be bothered to click the link:





> The victim was driving a white SUV on University Avenue and was attempting to turn onto Center Street when a group of protestors began “crowding around the vehicle. A male protester ran to the SUV on the passenger side, pointed a handgun at (the) driver and shot one round through the window,” according to a synopsis of the incident by Provo Deputy Police Chief John Geyerman.
> 
> The driver, who was struck by a bullet, “hit the gas trying to leave the situation,” Geyerman said.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> From Provo, UT, of all places. This shit right here is why you NEVER let the rioters surround your car.
> 
> A snippet, if you couldn’t be bothered to click the link:


Jesus...that contextualizes this like crazy. Fucking Provo?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Here's Canada's Boogalo...  800 members of a Facebook meme page.   

Support for anti-government, pro-gun Boogaloo movement growing in Canada


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Showing up at the mayor's house was to far... 

Seattle police moves in to reclaim their precinct in CHOP


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

Live feed:

KING 5 Mornings

Citizen Journalism-Converge Media "covering the revolution" 


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=887027485139182
			




The Mayor found her loins last night, signed an executive order closing down the CHOP/CHAZ ordering everyone to vacate.

How do I say this?  If you do not leave, you're an agitator.  My guess?  RAZ the warlord faded away into the night.

At least 20 arrests were made.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

Welcome to New CHAZ, aka NYC City Hall.  NYPD has withdrawn from its position holding the perimeter of City Hall.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278334083462950916
A bunch more videos from this account: https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Welcome to New CHAZ, aka NYC City Hall.  NYPD has withdrawn from its position holding the perimeter of City Hall.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278334083462950916
> A bunch more videos from this account: https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss


Whhhhhat the fuuuuck?

NYPD cops retreat from City Hall protesters after early morning clash


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

Public: "We need better police"
Police Union: "We need more money to train our officers better"
City Council and Public: "We must de-fund the police"

The quotes in this article, LITERALLY, shows how stupid the city council members of New York are.
New York Police Department's budget has been slashed by $1 billion

They just cut the NYPD budget by 20%.

Public: "Police Unions are bad, it makes it hard to remove bad cops"
Police Union: "Actually, no, Police Unions protect cops from shit like this."

This was a long time coming.  Guess what though, when crimes rises in New York, the money will come back and you'll get back to regressive policing because the idiot Mayor will campaign on that.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Public: "We need better police"
> Police Union: "We need more money to train our officers better"
> City Council and Public: "We must de-fund the police"
> 
> ...



Slashed $1 billion.  Is that 'billion' with a 'b'??   Holy mother of massive taxation.


----------



## pardus (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Welcome to New CHAZ, aka NYC City Hall.  NYPD has withdrawn from its position holding the perimeter of City Hall.



Good, burn the fucking place to the ground.
FUCK NYC! Snake Pilskin is buying a new eye patch for the next phase.
I hope the cops take a very passive stance now and let the city burn.


----------



## 757 (Jul 1, 2020)

More Peaceful Rhetoric from the "protesters" such as "I want to hang him from a fucking tree like he do us" and "I want to put my foot on his fucking neck like he do us." Thanks for the initial link Thunder.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 1, 2020)

Provo Shooter is a 33 year old pasty white guy from Salt Lake City.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

Columbus takes down Columbus statue: WATCH: Christopher Columbus statue removed from Columbus City Hall

ETA: This is just getting weird.  Someone always fills the power vacuum. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278099890501873665


----------



## pardus (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Columbus takes down Columbus statue: WATCH: Christopher Columbus statue removed from Columbus City Hall
> 
> ETA: This is just getting weird.  Someone always fills the power vacuum.



So first of all wow, and a bemused, slightly confused "yay...?"

I guess the city of Columbus is going to have to change their name name. Wouldn't that be a pisser!?


----------



## pardus (Jul 1, 2020)

We're going to see the Klan attacking black folks soon in the name of BLM... smfh


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 1, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Jul 1, 2020)

An interesting read. 

The Power of Narrative: The George Floyd Protests Aren’t Just About Policing | C2C Journal


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> An interesting read.
> 
> The Power of Narrative: The George Floyd Protests Aren’t Just About Policing | C2C Journal



This is a really great article, and boiling down to what my mother would tell me growing up, "you are either the master of or a slave to circumstances. You can't be both."


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> This is a really great article, and boiling down to what my mother would tell me growing up, "you are either the master of or a slave to circumstances. You can't be both."



I came from a very poor family.  Lots of hand me down clothes from cousin's and being regulars at the food bank.  I was the first to break into the "middle class" and become a home owner.  All thanks to myself and wanting to make my life better for my kid's.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I came from a very poor family.  Lots of hand me down clothes from cousin's and being regulars at the food bank.  I was the first to break into the "middle class" and become a home owner.  All thanks to myself and wanting to make my life better for my kid's.



My mother was born in 1940, she was the youngest to six kids, she grew up dirt poor on a farm, until she was a teenager their house didn't have running water and had to use an outhouse. 

My mother was batshit crazy, and we did not generally get along, but she used those experiences as a source of strength and not as an excuse. I will always appreciate her and thank her for that.


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Public: "We need better police"
> Police Union: "We need more money to train our officers better"
> City Council and Public: "We must de-fund the police"
> 
> ...




Do you want New York circa 1980s cause that's how you go back to New York circa 1980s


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I came from a very poor family.  Lots of hand me down clothes from cousin's and being regulars at the food bank.  I was the first to break into the "middle class" and become a home owner.  All thanks to myself and wanting to make my life better for my kid's.



Like I said in Open Mic, what feels like six months ago, but may have only been a month ago.  I'm just a poor mixed kid who happened to do well enough in school to get a ROTC scholarship that allowed me become an Army Officer and lead men.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ETA: This is just getting weird.  Someone always fills the power vacuum.


They've always filled the power vacuum in their neighborhoods - it's just that this time the ones flexing at them sideways weren't law enforcement.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

So the CEO of LA County is cutting the LASD budget by a lot.  And Los Angeles is going to dismantle the LAPD!  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278035222584422400
In a sense I can't wait.  These people are dumb, did they swallow the worm in the budget mezcal bottle?


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 1, 2020)

So like...firefighters?


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 2, 2020)

Would love a compilation video of all these moments of brilliance from the past month or so:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278428211471437826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266906893383016449


----------



## Jackflerp (Jul 2, 2020)

LA had 258 murders in 2018... I don't know how they expect to solve a crime problem by dismantling the only organization prepared to fight crime. I'm a fan of putting social workers, psychologists, and other community resources WITH police, but not INSTEAD OF police. How often do police come into a non-violent scene that turns violent before the whole thing is over? My guess is often enough to easily warrant being armed all of the time. Rayshard Brooks was respectful and non-violent until he wasn't. Not sure how a psychologist would handle that kind of situation. People don't like getting arrested, and non-violent crimes are still crimes and still require a punishment.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

A lot to unpack this morning, ANTIFA has gone back to the East Precinct to retake the CHAZ from SPD.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278625129514168320
A statue of an Elk Statue in Portland, because Elk are racist?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278592721456779265
BLM Protests are now becoming Anti-Israel/Anti-Jew protests.  Apparently police brutality is because of the Jews.  I know we talk about "racism" being systemic and shit.  But Jews are continuously targeted, and they're convenient.

March in Brooklyn:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278552063287324674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278551454924574720
March in DC: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278457182657413120
'Intrinsically tied to Black Lives Matter': Harvard student leads anti-Israel march on Capitol


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> An interesting read.
> 
> The Power of Narrative: The George Floyd Protests Aren’t Just About Policing | C2C Journal



So here we have a privileged Asian discussing what problems black people have gone through because he took a few college classes on the subject. 



It sounds so easy what he's saying to do. Yet let's be honest, we are all the product of our friends and our home. Yes there are a few examples of people getting out and becoming a great contributor to society, but for most of those in inner cities, every day is a struggle and that is how they end up in gangs or doing other illegal activities.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

Do you realize how racist "we have a privileged Asian" is? 

No one is denying that there isn't work to be done.  But unless emotion is taken out of the decision making and the all factors are taken into account; this cycle will never end.   I get it, you think we're all a bunch of "far right" racists.  I guess that is the standard when someone thinks differently than you now.  

Only a few examples... 

For only being 13% of the US population, they hold similar % across most employment sectors.  

Employed persons by detailed industry, sex, race, and Hispanic or Latino ethnicity

Political leadership is held by similar % of population. 

Blacks have made gains in U.S. political leadership, but gaps remain


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> So here we have a *privileged Asian* discussing what problems black people have gone through because he took a few college classes on the subject.
> 
> View attachment 34712
> 
> It sounds so easy what he's saying to do. Yet let's be honest, we are all the product of our friends and our home. Yes there are a few examples of people getting out and becoming a great contributor to society, but for most of those in inner cities, every day is a struggle and that is how they end up in gangs or doing other illegal activities.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Do you realize how racist "we have a privileged Asian" is?
> 
> No one is denying that there isn't work to be done.  But unless emotion is taken out of the decision making and the all factors are taken into account; this cycle will never end.   I get it, you think we're all a bunch of "far right" racists.  I guess that is the standard when someone thinks differently than you now.
> 
> ...



Nope, I dont think you are a racist just because you are right or extreme right. And yes, educationally speaking most Asians are the victim of racism.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Nope, I dont think you are a racist just because you are right or extreme right. And yes, educationally speaking most Asians are the victim of racism.



No.  What you just typed about Asian's is extremely racist.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> No.  What you just typed about Asian's is extremely racist.



In that case, I think the simple fact you are so uncomfortable having a conversation about race might make you a racist.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

Racist comments of any kind are not to be tolerated.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

A Psychiatrist's take in Canada's capital.  

Hatcher: Improving mental health is more complicated than 'defunding' the police


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 2, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've hit the point where shit is so absurd that it's comical.


Welcome to the party, what took you so long!


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Racist comments of any kind are not to be tolerated.


How does identifying a privileged person's race qualify as a racist comment?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> How does identifying a privileged person's race qualify as a racist comment?



How does someone going to a school that provides free education to low income families, automatically make them privileged?  There was no reason to bring up race.   None.


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 2, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Welcome to the party, what took you so long!



I'm not experiencing everything firsthand since I'm not stateside. I will be shortly though and I'm sure I won't take it well.


----------



## 757 (Jul 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277985863817928705


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> How does someone going to a school that provides free education to low income families, automatically make them privileged?


That is a question for @BloodStripe to answer. 





RackMaster said:


> There was no reason to bring up race.   None.


That seems to be in dispute.  In either case, how does pointing out that fact about the person qualify as a racist comment?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> In either case, how does pointing out that fact about the person qualify as a racist comment?



Read his complete post again.  There was no reason to bring up the author's race, other than to degrade the individual. 

This discussion is over.  I'm going to lock this for a while. 




BloodStripe said:


> *So here we have a privileged Asian discussing what problems black people have gone through because he took a few college classes on the subject.*
> 
> View attachment 34712
> 
> It sounds so easy what he's saying to do. Yet let's be honest, we are all the product of our friends and our home. Yes there are a few examples of people getting out and becoming a great contributor to society, but for most of those in inner cities, every day is a struggle and that is how they end up in gangs or doing other illegal activities.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

Apparently saying EVERYONE's LIFE MATTERS is a fireable offense on a college campus. 

EXCLUSIVE: Dean fired after saying 'EVERYONE'S LIFE MATTERS' in email


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

What adds insult to the injury is that she specifically pointed out that black lives matter before mentioning all lives.

"Recent events recall a tragic history of racism and bias that continue to thrive in this country. I despair for our future as a nation if we do not stand up against violence against anyone. BLACK LIVES MATTER, but also, EVERYONE'S LIFE MATTERS."


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently saying EVERYONE's LIFE MATTERS is a fireable offense on a college campus.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Dean fired after saying 'EVERYONE'S LIFE MATTERS' in email



I am adjunct faculty with our school of nursing.  We are required to have "what pronoun we prefer" in our email signatures; in fact, we are encouraged to participate in BLM and BGLAD club activities.  I am, in fact, leaving the position.  They are not interested in "open dialogue".


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am adjunct faculty with our school of nursing.  We are required to have "what pronoun we prefer" in our email signatures


going/going/gone


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently saying EVERYONE's LIFE MATTERS is a fireable offense on a college campus.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Dean fired after saying 'EVERYONE'S LIFE MATTERS' in email


Yeah that’s definitely an over-reaction.  She even said, very explicitly, “Black lives matter” right before saying the thing that got her fired. Not a good move from the school.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 2, 2020)

Crime stats for the former nation of CHOP (pop ~700, ~25% black) 

2 murders/23 days --> homicide rate of 4,534/100k per year (914 times higher than the US) 

security killed 1 unarmed black 16-year-old --> CHOP security killed unarmed blacks at 421,000 times the rate of US police


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

Gun laws are racist and most white people are afraid of armed black people.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackLivesMatter/comments/hjxj5e


----------



## DZ (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Gun laws are racist and most white people are afraid of armed black people.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackLivesMatter/comments/hjxj5e


That's a pretty sweeping generalization.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Gun laws are racist and most white people are afraid of armed black people.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackLivesMatter/comments/hjxj5e


I'm struggling with the choice of utilizing this post.  White Americans aren't confederates.

The same "White" protest that got demonized in Michigan was followed by a minority armed protest on the Michigan capitol.  It wasn't a "white" protest because as there were minorities protesting, but journalists only focused on the white guys.  But then, the minority only protest, which was smaller, got zero media coverage.  I've posted the links in the corona thread.  I'll go find them later.

But your generalization is really dumb, because every time there is a lawful protest under arms, those "white people" are demonized by the media.  So it's not like they're embraced.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

Ever see a Black Panther gathering?


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ever see a Black Panther gathering?



Sure.. something a quick google will show. What's the point?


----------



## 757 (Jul 2, 2020)

Source: NFL plans to play Black anthem Week 1


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Sure.. something a quick google will show. What's the point?



Fascination and Fear: Covering the Black Panthers


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

When the black justice movement got too powerful, the FBI got scared and got ugly


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

Because showing up armed to watch traffic stops is totally cool. 






Colion Noir goes over a long break down of how California passed the Mulford Act.  It had almost nothing to do with the Black Panthers actions that day on the State Capitol grounds, but everything they did in Oakland.


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Fascination and Fear: Covering the Black Panthers



You have anything from this century?


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> When the black justice movement got too powerful, the FBI got scared and got ugly


The look in that officer's eyes halfway down the the article says more than you need to


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

Honestly, this was really hard to find.  The google machine was spitting out articles at me, as I said, Demonizing the other armed protest.  But, a las, @ShadowSpear has a great record.  Post from the Gun Control Thread.



ThunderHorse said:


> I'm quite surprised most PDs haven't gone sterilized with uniforms during this unrest.
> 
> ETA:  This was last week, there was almost zero coverage of it.  But I remember that the media tried to make the Michigan protests at the capital all about white people when there were blacks and latinos.
> 
> ...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 2, 2020)

@BloodStripe Dude... those guys are bad hombres. Between voter intimidation and all the other messed stuff they do, they're loyalty ain't to the Republic. I have a friend out east who lives near one of their compounds and the stuff he tells me makes my blood boil.

Black Panther Boss Who Got Off For Voter Intimidation Arrested - Judicial Watch
New Black Panther Party - Wikipedia


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ever see a Black Panther gathering?


Once. On TV, outside of a polling place in PHL on Election Day. Why? [/sarc]


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @BloodStripe Dude... those guys are bad hombres. Between voter intimidation and all the other messed stuff they do, they're loyalty ain't to the Republic. I have a friend out east who lives near one of their compounds and the stuff he tells me makes my blood boil.
> 
> Black Panther Boss Who Got Off For Voter Intimidation Arrested - Judicial Watch
> New Black Panther Party - Wikipedia



Because a black person has never faced voter intimidation?



Florida173 said:


> You have anything from this century?



Why would it have to be from this century if it is a current law?

@DA SWO I grew up just outside Gary, Indiana and spent a big chunk of my life there as my family owned a business in Gary. I also spent a lot of my life on the south and west sides of the city.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 2, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @BloodStripe Dude... those guys are bad hombres. Between voter intimidation and all the other messed stuff they do, they're loyalty ain't to the Republic. I have a friend out east who lives near one of their compounds and the stuff he tells me makes my blood boil.
> 
> Black Panther Boss Who Got Off For Voter Intimidation Arrested - Judicial Watch
> New Black Panther Party - Wikipedia



Because Judical Watch isn't bias...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Because Judical Watch isn't bias...



What's your point?  Samir Shabazz was arrested in both 2008 and 2012 for voter intimidation.  Justice declined his prosecution, because well, those Attorney Generals at the time were quite political.

He has a clear history of this.  Controversial black supremacist busted again


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Because Judical Watch isn't bias...


Bro, check out the sources in the Judicial Watch link. Some of the documentation sources come from super liberal sources like the ADL and SPLC. The New Black Panther Party is that bad.

Check out their link to Hamas and the stuff going on in the Gaza Strip.
New Black Panthers Exploit Gaza Conflict To Promote Anti-Semitism

Going back to your initial post of white Americans being intimidated by black Americans carrying firearms, check out @Devildoc 's post below. The so called Boog bois are a great example of race as an exclusion factor being a false narrative.


Devildoc said:


> I don't know squat about Boogaloo Boys or whatever it's called.  Yeah, I have seen the memes, I have read the articles, but it's not something I have followed.  But is it racist?  Not according to this pic.
> 
> View attachment 34546


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Because a black person has never faced voter intimidation?
> 
> Why would it have to be from this century if it is a current law?


That was decades ago. If anything, black American's are more protected here than anywhere else in the world. Seriously dude, check out the stuff that happens in South America and Central America. Better yet talk to those people and you'll see the stark differences between here and there.

America is an extremely tolerant place. Heck, as a nation we are the best hope for humanity.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 2, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @BloodStripe Dude... those guys are bad hombres. Between voter intimidation and all the other messed stuff they do, they're loyalty ain't to the Republic. I have a friend out east who lives near one of their compounds and the stuff he tells me makes my blood boil.
> 
> Black Panther Boss Who Got Off For Voter Intimidation Arrested - Judicial Watch
> New Black Panther Party - Wikipedia


Try to stick with the group he is talking about instead conflating it with a non-successor organization that the founders have flatly rejected and denounced multiple times, not the least for illegitimately co-opting and exploiting its name.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 3, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Try to stick with the group he is talking about instead conflating it with a non-successor organization that the founders have flatly rejected and denounced multiple times, not the least for illegitimately co-opting and exploiting its name.


The old Black Panther Party is gone dude. Right now the people running the crazy train are the New Black Panther Party.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The old Black Panther Party is gone dude. Right now the people running the crazy train are the New Black Panther Party.


Please reread @BloodStripe's initial Black Panthers post, his links, and then my last post before responding again.


----------



## AWP (Jul 3, 2020)

One thread with race is locked over some behavior, now we've migrated the discussion to this thread? Now some of you are treading a real fine line between an emotional discussion and personal attacks?

Y'all need to slow your roll.


----------



## ShamgarTheJudge (Jul 3, 2020)

This is why “.” Must survive and this thread should die...in my humble, dumb opinion.


----------



## AWP (Jul 3, 2020)

I'm going to reopen this thread.

I "invite" anyone posting in this thread to "refreshify" yourselves with this post before you do anything else. In the future I'm not going to lock a thread, I'm just going to thread ban, temp ban, or permahammer y'all for your behavior.

Your fate is in your hands and before anyone wants to go with the "it's just the internet" defense...why are you here if it so trivial?

A Note From a Member of the Staff


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That was decades ago. If anything, black American's are more protected here than anywhere else in the world. Seriously dude, check out the stuff that happens in South America and Central America. Better yet talk to those people and you'll see the stark differences between here and there.
> 
> America is an extremely tolerant place. Heck, as a nation we are the best hope for humanity.



You must be joking, right? America is not tolerant. Look how many posts in this forum alone decry Antifa. Or look at how many people get up in arms about having a black history month, or an Islamic worship center popping up in an area,  or a bakery baking a cake for a gay wedding. Yes we are less violent than some less tolerable places but that doesn't mean we are a tolerant country. 

We have all heard the age old argument,  mainly about healthcare and gun laws,  that if you want to be like (insert country here) then why don't you move there. To which the rebuttal is always because this is my country. So America is my country. I'll worry about what WE do.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 3, 2020)

On a different note, in thinking about the various unlawful, more violent protests and the police approach to effectively disband them, I was reminded about "skunk":
Skunk Water: A Weapon That Uses Stench to Control Crowds

The Israelis use it and it was reportedly used in Ferguson several years ago but it's use was criticized; my guess is the outcry came from protesters simply because it was effective and unpleasant.  I have no experience with it but my initial thought, from what little I know about it, is that it's brilliant nonlethal solution and would have no issues with it's use; a reasonable alternative to tear gas and rubber bullets.

Does anyone have experience with this that they can share?  Thoughts on it's use/effectiveness?


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 3, 2020)

So I guess NYC has a "CHAZ" now??

NYC CHAZ City Hall


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> You must be joking, right? America is not tolerant. Look how many posts in this forum alone decry Antifa. Or look at how many people get up in arms about having a black history month, or an Islamic worship center popping up in an area,  or a bakery baking a cake for a gay wedding. Yes we are less violent than some less tolerable places but that doesn't mean we are a tolerant country.
> 
> We have all heard the age old argument,  mainly about healthcare and gun laws,  that if you want to be like (insert country here) then why don't you move there. To which the rebuttal is always because this is my country. So America is my country. I'll worry about what WE do.


C'mon brother, the tolerance our nation has is above anything the world has ever seen past or present. As for the other groups... we'll, I'm pretty sure they don't have the populaces best interests in mind.

Antifa is a straight up Marxist org that aims to destabilize our Republic. If they get their way a chunk of our population will end up in reeducation camps or in a ditches. What happened in Vietnam, after we left, is a testament to what Marxists do.

Talking about Islam is like opening a can of worms. Don't know what it has to do with race and tolerance, but I can put things in an anthropological perspective. The way Islam operates as a religion is very much akin to a human migration wave. By that, I mean it's a newer offshoot of the Abrahamic religions that specializes in conversion and hostile takeovers. (Think Numic Expansion or the 3-4 waves of prehistoric colonization in the Americas)

Reason Mosques are unpopular, in my opinion, can be traced back to the founding Judeo-Christian principals the nation was founded on. Specifically the folkway's of the Protestants and Quakers, in conjunction with libertarian values. You gotta remember that these groups initially came to the country to be left alone. The call to prayer and INDOC mosques put out fly in the face of the libertarian ideals the nation was founded on. A more modern comparison of mosques would be in the establishment and operational practices of the old Spanish Missions.

Another way to look at things, like the above, is in why we play reveille on foreign bases and fly American flags. We do the latter to differentiate ourselves and stake a psychological presence in an area. Same goes for the Islamic prayer call and INDOC stuff. The behavior is very akin to the way the Romans legions carried Aquila battle standards and built roads or the Aztecs utilizing death whistles and skull mounds. It's a way of staking ones turf.

As for cultural and political aspects of the various history months and the wedding cake stuff, I can address that in another post. Long post short... what we're seeing ain't a push towards tolerance. The name of the game these groups are pushing is an end to assimilation and the Balkanization of America and it's people.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jul 3, 2020)

I think it's problematic to conflate Islam with radical islamism.

Even as a figure of speech.
Make no mistake, absolutely not defending violence in the name of anything. It's the peaceful Muslims - often targets of violence just for their faith - and serving & prior service American Muslims I have in mind.

Insulting people's religion isn't a way to promote peace. As well as makes it easier for ill meaning parties you were concerned about most, to spread their hateful vitriol.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> You must be joking, right? America is not tolerant. Look how many posts in this forum alone decry Antifa. Or look at how many people get up in arms about having a black history month, or an Islamic worship center popping up in an area,  or a bakery baking a cake for a gay wedding. Yes we are less violent than some less tolerable places but that doesn't mean we are a tolerant country.
> 
> We have all heard the age old argument,  mainly about healthcare and gun laws,  that if you want to be like (insert country here) then why don't you move there. To which the rebuttal is always because this is my country. So America is my country. I'll worry about what WE do.


So why are we less tolerant? I want to hear your opinion before I give you mine.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 3, 2020)

Why is it when the topic of "American tolerance" is brought up, inevitably the comparisons are to Middle Eastern/African/South American countries, and not to other "Western European" styles countries?

Is it because our "tolerance" easily trounces those other countries but maybe doesn't look so good compared to New Zealand, Iceland, The Nordic Countries?
Hell, even our most direct comparisons of the U.K., Canada, Australia, Germany, and France?

It's important to have perspective about how much better we(as a whole) may be off in economic/social/personal status compared to the least fortunate in the world, but that view does not mean we cannot also recognize problems at our level and strive to fix them.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jul 3, 2020)

Perhaps the phrasing is part of the issue.

If the question is put as comparative? Yeah, of course the answers bring on looking elsewhere.

Might be asking different questions - Is America tolerant? In what respects? To which issues and people living them? In what situations? With what historical development?

May be evasiveness... but also may be reacting to a question begging a re-phrase.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jul 3, 2020)

YouTube video has been taken down


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> You must be joking, right? America is not tolerant. *Look how many posts in this forum alone decry Antifa.* Or look at how many people get up in arms about having a black history month, or an Islamic worship center popping up in an area,  or a *bakery baking a cake for a gay wedding*. Yes we are less violent than some less tolerable places but that doesn't mean we are a tolerant country.
> 
> We have all heard the age old argument,  mainly about healthcare and gun laws,  that if you want to be like (insert country here) then why don't you move there. To which the rebuttal is always because this is my country. So America is my country. I'll worry about what WE do.



Huh?

1. Antifa? The Black Block?  That is a worldwide organization of anarchists and marxists?  That bomb government buildings? Why should I tolerate that shit?  Oh but the boogaloo? Right wing extremists are the most targeted extremists in this country.  The FBI goes after them like clockwork.  Left wing extremists?  Rarely. Antifa, the same people that violently "protest" everywhere the POTUS goes?  That riot everywhere in the western world? Antifa is a terrorist group.

2. You're right, we're not tolerant.  Because if we were, that gay couple would never have sued the bakery owners.  They had been customers before.  The couple who owned the bakery wasn't refuse to bake or sell them any cakes, it was specifically in regard to the wedding cake.  A "tolerant" society would allow them their religious beliefs and the gay couple would have found another baker.

So in a sense, I guess you're right.  We're becoming less and less tolerant.  But not in the way you're claiming.



Cookie_ said:


> Why is it when the topic of "American tolerance" is brought up, inevitably the comparisons are to Middle Eastern/African/South American countries, and not to other "Western European" styles countries?
> 
> Is it because our "tolerance" easily trounces those other countries but maybe doesn't look so good compared to New Zealand, Iceland, The Nordic Countries?
> Hell, even our most direct comparisons of the U.K., Canada, Australia, Germany, and France?
> ...



The French are tolerant when you try to assimilate.  Speaking French is extremely important there.

But it is a society that has gone full secular banning every religious artifact in public life.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jul 3, 2020)

I could well cite repeated French protests devolving into riots, and the difficulties North African & French colonies immigrants - all French native speakers - face in the country...

But I'm sure that's kind of unnecessary and might be offensive to both French and Canadian-French members in here. ;)

So just to the point some nations are havens of tolerance.

I don't think tolerance has all that much to do with nationality - or is a collective national trait.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ever see a Black Panther gathering?


Yeah, growing up in/near Chicago.
You?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 3, 2020)




----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 3, 2020)

Still true to this day.


----------



## digrar (Jul 3, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> So like...firefighters?


----------



## LimaPanther (Jul 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


>



Showing my age but loved watching the show when younger.


----------



## AWP (Jul 3, 2020)

In America, "tolerance" is currently a great way to hide racist behavior towards white people. It isn't about people being equal, it is about punishing white people for stuff that they may or may not have done.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 4, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> YouTube video has been taken down



The video I posed was shot at nightime, several cut scenes from around the same area: a bunch of "protesters" dragging barriers away from what looks like City Hall, and a line of police defending against the mob, several people telling the black police officers they should quit and their white counterparts would kill them if they weren't wearing the uniform etc..


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 4, 2020)

I think America is a very tolerant nation. Not one where you have the right to be liked by everyone, but one where you are free to express yourself in almost any manner, even some manners that completely offensive to a vast majority of the population. Nobody should cancel you, nobody tries to run you out of town (any town I've lived), you can't simply be fired from your job for being (x).

However, as a free society, we are not _forced _to like those different from us, we do not have to "tolerate" any one else's BS in private. I myself am intolerant to Trannys. I wouldn't fire one if I was their boss, I wouldn't chuck a rock through their window if they moved into my neighborhood, I wouldn't even give them a dirty look out in public. That doesn't mean they don't make me feel like vomiting... Because they do. So I would avoid any close contact if I had to.

The same rules apply to me. Plenty of people don't like me for whatever reason. As long as they are not pursuing my destruction or trying to cause me problems, they to are "tolerant". My opinion only.


----------



## Dame (Jul 4, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I think America is a very tolerant nation. Not one where you have the right to be liked by everyone, but one where you are free to express yourself in almost any manner, even some manners that completely offensive to a vast majority of the population. Nobody should cancel you, nobody tries to run you out of town (any town I've lived), you can't simply be fired from your job for being (x).
> 
> However, as a free society, we are not _forced _to like those different from us, we do not have to "tolerate" any one else's BS in private. I myself am intolerant to Trannys. I wouldn't fire one if I was their boss, I wouldn't chuck a rock through their window if they moved into my neighborhood, I wouldn't even give them a dirty look out in public. That doesn't mean they don't make me feel like vomiting... Because they do. So I would avoid any close contact if I had to.
> 
> The same rules apply to me. Plenty of people don't like me for whatever reason. As long as they are not pursuing my destruction or trying to cause me problems, they too are "tolerant". My opinion only.


I agree wholeheartedly. (No problem with transvestites, but big issue with Islamists.)
Do I plan on rioting because of that? No. But are any of them friends? Big NO. Do I consider myself tolerant? Yes.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 4, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I think America is a very tolerant nation. Not one where you have the right to be liked by everyone, but one where you are free to express yourself in almost any manner, even some manners that completely offensive to a vast majority of the population. Nobody should cancel you, nobody tries to run you out of town (any town I've lived), you can't simply be fired from your job for being (x).
> 
> However, as a free society, we are not _forced _to like those different from us, we do not have to "tolerate" any one else's BS in private. I myself am intolerant to Trannys. I wouldn't fire one if I was their boss, I wouldn't chuck a rock through their window if they moved into my neighborhood, I wouldn't even give them a dirty look out in public. That doesn't mean they don't make me feel like vomiting... Because they do. So I would avoid any close contact if I had to.
> 
> The same rules apply to me. Plenty of people don't like me for whatever reason. As long as they are not pursuing my destruction or trying to cause me problems, they to are "tolerant". My opinion only.



Bad vacation in Thailand?  😉😉

I honestly thought that was the whole point of freedom and what was making the US and Canada, such great places to live.  Then the pendulum kept swinging to crazy.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jul 4, 2020)

I'm pro all of those 'liberal' things - for personal reasons as well as from a state with actually Communist history and having lived in states where human rights issues are waay worse still at present - so I'll be happy to take all your 'trannies' to a picnic as long as the actual terrorists still get kept at bay ;)

All that to say, to each their own, and happy Independence Day. ;)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 4, 2020)

I'm gonna do my level best to disconnect the rest of the day and do American shit like Drink Bourbon and eat Chili Cheese dogs.  But, as I was doing my indoor bike curls this morning I looked at Andy Ngo's twitter feed.

Last night protesters blocked a Freeway in Seattle not only by being on it, but with cars. The driver of went around the cars blocking the road and accelerated through the "people". Freedom of Movement is a right. I understand that this would be considered a "crime". Attempted Murder or Manslaughter. However, if you're blocking people someone's freedom of movement, there will likely be consequences.

Police: 2 women hit by car on Seattle highway amid protests

Now, onto the rest of Andy's twitter feed.  The Portland PD has basically withdrawn from the street.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279366561732517888
The Federal Courthouse was attacked again.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279395522860552199
In a continuation of what we're seeing across the country, journalists when covering protests are being attacked by "protesters".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279404886614925312
Portland is much worse off than Seattle. Seattle conceded a sizable chunk of territory to ANTIFA, but they acted eventually. Portland had an "Autonomous Zone" previously. It existed for five months. It has one again. Portland has a significant lack of leadership from every single elected official.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 4, 2020)

LAPD cuts staffing to lowest level since 2008.

Los Angeles cuts LAPD spending, taking police staffing to its lowest level in 12 years


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> LAPD cuts staffing to lowest level since 2008.
> 
> Los Angeles cuts LAPD spending, taking police staffing to its lowest level in 12 years


----------



## medicchick (Jul 4, 2020)

Yup Portland is a shit show at night. I love hearing flashbangs over the radio and my drivers being threatened while doing their jobs. It's to the point when PD calls for a tow I request a police escort withing certain blocks for driver safety.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 4, 2020)

27 year old Black guy driving a Jaguar



Plows through a BLM protest hitting these two women





Ironic, huh?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 4, 2020)

We are living in the strangest times... friggin Portland.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 4, 2020)

Thought it was Seattle @R.Caerbannog ?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> In America, "tolerance" is currently a great way to hide racist behavior towards white people. It isn't about people being equal, it is about punishing white people for stuff that they may or may not have done.



People wake up every day unknowing that their sole saving grace is my tolerance.


----------



## Jaknight (Jul 4, 2020)

Interesting so a black milita showed up to Stone Mountain a known KKK spot  Proceeded to call out White supremacists and others to come down and face them. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279567750751490048.  

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279565114136571905.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279556067912036359


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 4, 2020)

I feel like Colin Kaepernick woke up today and said, “fuck it. Still don’t have a job, might as well double down”


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 4, 2020)

Yeah...fuck you Colin Kaepernick....your a has been NFL player.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 5, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> So why are we less tolerant? I want to hear your opinion before I give you mine.





BloodStripe said:


> You must be joking, right? America is not tolerant. Look how many posts in this forum alone decry Antifa. Or look at how many people get up in arms about having a black history month, or an Islamic worship center popping up in an area,  or a bakery baking a cake for a gay wedding. Yes we are less violent than some less tolerable places but that doesn't mean we are a tolerant country.
> 
> We have all heard the age old argument,  mainly about healthcare and gun laws,  that if you want to be like (insert country here) then why don't you move there. To which the rebuttal is always because this is my country. So America is my country. I'll worry about what WE do.


Waiting on your response! Don’t send a PM


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Thought it was Seattle @R.Caerbannog ?


You're right... I guess I'm a bit prejudiced when it comes to that part of the US. The subcultures that rule that part of the coast are very similar looking and very weird.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I feel like Colin Kaepernick woke up today and said, “fuck it. Still don’t have a job, might as well double down”
> 
> View attachment 34783


Honestly, he's clearly given up on the NFL in anything other than a symbolic gesture. He could go the way of Sharpton or Jackson, but I think the better odds are on a Rep/Senator Kapernick in the next 5 years


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 5, 2020)

As per the above article, the police are now shutting down the highways with barriers for these protests? And doesn't it seem highly illegal for a protest to take place on the interstate? There's a sign at the on ramp, no mopeds, no pedestrians...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> 27 year old Black guy driving a Jaguar
> 
> View attachment 34775
> 
> ...


Dudes in a bit of trouble, now.  

1 of 2 protesters hit by car on closed Seattle highway dies


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 5, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Interesting so a black milita showed up to Stone Mountain a known KKK spot  Proceeded to call out White supremacists and others to come down and face them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m surprised that it took so long for folks to figure out that the 2nd Amendment is not just for white people.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Interesting so a black milita showed up to Stone Mountain a known KKK spot  Proceeded to call out White supremacists and others to come down and face them.



*Hey it's a time of racial agitation, let's go to Stone Mountain and harass people*

I don't spend much time around the dark web, but I hadn't heard of any massive "racial" violence planned by "white supremacists" on the 4th of July.  Doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But this whole let's go seek a fight thing seems like a stupid idea, but to each their own.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dudes in a bit of trouble, now.
> 
> 1 of 2 protesters hit by car on closed Seattle highway dies


March organizers should be held responsible as well and charged for negligence/manslaughter for holding a March on a highway.  That shit needs to stop.  The tanker truck in Minneapolis should've served as a warning that this would happen.  Falls under the "play stupid games" heading...


----------



## Dame (Jul 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> March organizers should be held responsible as well and charged for negligence/manslaughter for holding a March on a highway.  That shit needs to stop.  The tanker truck in Minneapolis should've served as a warning that this would happen.  Falls under the "play stupid games" heading...


I'm sure the city will be sued as well for not providing enough security.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

An 8 yr old Child was shot in Atlanta by "Protesters" blocking a parking lot, this is near the sit of the Rayshard Brooks Wendys.  There have been numerous shootings in the area that have arisen from the protests since. 

Child killed in Atlanta shooting on July 4


----------



## Lefty375 (Jul 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> An 8 yr old Child was shot in Atlanta by "Protesters" blocking a parking lot, this is near the sit of the Rayshard Brooks Wendys.  There have been numerous shootings in the area that have arisen from the protests since.
> 
> Child killed in Atlanta shooting on July 4



Can you show me where you got the data for your conclusion? 

It literally says in the article _you_ posted, "However, in this most recent shooting, police have provided no details to suggest the incident was in any way related to one of these protests."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

I'm editorializing that a bit since we seem to have "micro-protests" everywhere.

But that specific location and protests leading to people being shot?  It's linked at the bottom of that article.

Woman shot during protests at Wendy's where Rayshard Brooks was killed


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m surprised that it took so long for folks to figure out that the 2nd Amendment is not just for white people.



You were saying?

At Second Amendment rally outside Capitol, a wide variety of causes emerge

Literally two ends of a spectrum, a group which did include some apparent white supremists, and some who identified with black lives matter, all together supporting the second amendment.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

Seriously wtf:


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 5, 2020)

"Warrior mindset" for police officers::  good or bad?

-----

*Why You Want Cops to Have a Warrior’s Mindset* 

"The word "warrior" should not be taboo in the law enforcement community. It should be adopted as a mindset, not as a synonym for a ruthless fighter. It should be a way of life."


----------



## Dame (Jul 5, 2020)

Gentleman warrior or Cavalier.
Protect and defend. Not out to strike first as a warrior might.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 5, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> "Warrior mindset" for police officers::  good or bad?
> 
> -----
> 
> ...



use to be good, being prepared and all that......now we are second guessing ourselves.....or asking if it doing X is worth it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 5, 2020)

Re: Warrior Training.  

Minneapolis recently forbade cops from training in it.

"Are you prepared to kill somebody?” A day with one of America’s most popular police trainers

Minneapolis banned warrior-style police training. Its police union kept offering it anyway.

Minneapolis Bans ‘Warrior-Style’ Training for Police Officers


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 5, 2020)

Lefty375 said:


> Can you show me where you got the data for your conclusion?
> 
> It literally says in the article _you_ posted, "However, in this most recent shooting, police have provided no details to suggest the incident was in any way related to one of these protests."


To add more to what was already shared, the video below speaks for itself:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279934848409522181


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

So. I don't know how this isn't a part of politics thread and specifically what is wrong with the Left.  However, with the spirit of the discussion on race being here.  Lin Manuel Miranda is being canceled by the WOKE AS FUCK Left.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279552408062959622
Some shipwreck tried to have a thread earlier today about how his portrayal of Hamilton wasn't correct, saying the portrayal of Hamilton wasn't accurate.  Saying that he was a person of privilege,fled the Bahamas specifically because he was in fear of a slave revolt, and then happened to marry into a family who had slaves and didn't actually carry abolitionist type views.  Let me see if I can find it.

Here's an article...https://www.theblaze.com/news/hamilton-problematic-lin-manuel-miranda-criticism?utm_content=bufferb34ba&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=tw-theblaze

Ah found it.  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279266792062488576
He's the thing for the dumbass that just wrote that thread. Alexander Hamilton was 14 when he went north. He was an orphan born out of Wedlock...he did not engage in "white flight",14 year olds don't make choices like that. 

Lin Manuel Miranda is probably the most inclusive playwrite ever, and people are attempting to cancel him because he doesn't tweet some BLM shit every five minutes.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So. I don't know how this isn't a part of politics thread and specifically what is wrong with the Left.  However, with the spirit of the discussion on race being here.  Lin Manuel Miranda is being canceled by the WOKE AS FUCK Left.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279552408062959622
> ...


Which is why the revolution will burn itself out quickly.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 6, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To add more to what was already shared, the video below speaks for itself:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279934848409522181



This *BULLSHIT *is way out of control... 

For those of us that did not support putting troops in the cities to quell the "protests" and unrest, maybe myself included, this is what we've ended up with. For fucks sake, this shit needs to stop....


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2020)

Good to see at least Veteran's of the RCMP stand up to Trudeau and systematic racism allegations. 

A Letter to Prime Minister Trudeau – RCMP Veteran's Association / Association des Vétéran de la GRC


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2020)

Didn't get the result they wanted, so now they want to "cancel" democratically elected officials. 

Toronto is calling out city councillors who voted against defunding the police


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2020)

A couple of days ago the statue of Frederick Douglass was removed in Rochester.

Frederick Douglass statue ripped from base in upstate New York


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 6, 2020)

If it exists, it's getting canceled right now.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 6, 2020)

‪ Mom and dad must be so proud -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279927310511194112


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 6, 2020)

But, did they bake it?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2020)

Brian Kemp is done with what's going on Atlanta.  Declared a State of Emergency and is deploying the National Guard.  The deployment of NG Soldiers is going to be to specific government buildings that normally have State Troopers assigned, the state troopers will then be deployed to street patrols.

Governor declares State of Emergency, authorizes 1,000 National Guard troops to Atlanta


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 6, 2020)

When did blacks take ownership of the noose being a hate symbol for them?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2020)

Crime spike in New York is apparently because of COVID-19?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280285502650843139


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 7, 2020)

Of course they’ll blame the virus. Defense attorneys across the country have successfully lobbied to have their defendants under the guise of preventing an outbreak in jails. In other words, they hit the streets and violate the conditions of their release by committing another crime. We’ve hooked up more than a few guys because of this.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 7, 2020)

Like him or lump him, Grossman has really perpetuated the whole us vs them, warrior mentality with LE.  I am not sure where I stand on it; a lot of cops I know are uncomfortable with the label.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

People are trying to cancel Terry Crews.  

Don Lemon doing his best to be a shithead.  Apparently Terry has to start ALL BLACK LIVES MATTER movement...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280365670404743168


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 7, 2020)

Don Lemon.  I wish HE'd protest on a highway, in front of me.  He'd be my hood ornament, not because of his skin color, but because he's a douche asshole.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

This shit is wild...there are people who want to make racism a mental disorder?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280557007146070017
The hypocrisy of the situation is insane.  Desean Jackson is allowed to be openly anti-semitic and face no consequences.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280536737710661632


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 7, 2020)

Do people understand that racism isn't biological. It's the up bringing and cultural environment that a person is surrounded by? That racism isn't a mental disorder in the literal sense There's stuff in behavioral biology that state certain genes dictate aggressiveness and chemical imbalances, but racism in and of itself doesn't occur naturally.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 7, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Do people understand that racism isn't biological. It's the up bringing and cultural environment that a person is surrounded by? That racism isn't a mental disorder in the literal sense There's stuff in behavioral biology that state certain genes dictate aggressiveness and chemical imbalances, but racism in and of itself doesn't occur naturally.


Quit trying to rationalize this. It's futile because, honestly, the mental disorder resides with those who keep spewing this shit.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 7, 2020)

Can I get SS disability if I am racists? I Hate the Navy


----------



## Dame (Jul 7, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Can I get SS disability if I am racists? I Hate the Navy


Only if your hatred was clinically diagnosed before age 22.


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jul 7, 2020)

I had to remind myself that's for soc security and not gnatsies... <headdesk> Europe majority meaning, sigh.

Still, what's up with that, they got cool blue and ships ;) Sail away from this insanity sounds about grand. Well. Not so ship mutinies. But man can't have it all.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

NYT published this article on taking down the Jefferson Memorial.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280638078621810688


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This shit is wild...there are people who want to make racism a mental disorder?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280557007146070017
> ...


What did DeSean Jackson say.


----------



## CQB (Jul 7, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Jul 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Like him or lump him, Grossman has really perpetuated the whole us vs them, warrior mentality with LE.  I am not sure where I stand on it; a lot of cops I know are uncomfortable with the label.



His "sheep, sheepdog, wolf" thing sounds great, but it became a means of denigrating members of society while elevating others. It became a social perception instead of an analogy for what amounts to a division of labor. I remember how people who blindly followed others were lemmings, but now they are sheep. That can't be a coincidence.

I partially blame how we put veterans on an impossibly high pedestal because it perpetuated, and some revel in it, the sheep/ sheepdog social distinction. While I'm conservative, my fellow conservatives did this. Liberals aren't talking about sheep or sheepdogs...at least not in large numbers. Anecdotally, I don't know of a single left-leaning person to say they are a sheepdog.


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 7, 2020)

I like the trending cancel Hamilton movement.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 7, 2020)

AWP said:


> Liberals aren't talking about sheep or sheepdogs...at least not in large numbers. Anecdotally, I don't know of a single left-leaning person to say they are a sheepdog.


They're more prone to call them another kind of livestock.


----------



## AWP (Jul 8, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> They're more prone to call them another kind of livestock.



Which is?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 8, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> What did DeSean Jackson say.


He posted a Hitler quote about Jews. 

DeSean Jackson posts anti-Semitic quotes attributed to Adolf Hitler


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> He posted a Hitler quote about Jews.
> 
> DeSean Jackson posts anti-Semitic quotes attributed to Adolf Hitler


It was a fake Hitler quote, to boot...


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Like him or lump him, Grossman has really perpetuated the whole us vs them, warrior mentality with LE.  I am not sure where I stand on it; a lot of cops I know are uncomfortable with the label.


If anything, it is a useful counter stance to consider against the now-fashionable call to defund police departments.

Grossman's focus on the safety of the LEO and highlighting of the very real threats they may face in any encounter may help bring to the public arena a long overdue question:  How to encourage more proportionate police responses to less-than-lethal encounters when LEOs simultaneously face sectors of the population willing to take full and potentially lethal advantage of those efforts?


----------



## nobodythank you (Jul 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> His "sheep, sheepdog, wolf" thing sounds great, but it became a means of denigrating members of society while elevating others. It became a social perception instead of an analogy for what amounts to a division of labor. I remember how people who blindly followed others were lemmings, but now they are sheep. That can't be a coincidence.
> 
> I partially blame how we put veterans on an impossibly high pedestal because it perpetuated, and some revel in it, the sheep/ sheepdog social distinction. While I'm conservative, my fellow conservatives did this. Liberals aren't talking about sheep or sheepdogs...at least not in large numbers. Anecdotally, I don't know of a single left-leaning person to say they are a sheepdog.


You're thinking of it in the wrong context. Grossman wasn't breaking down members of society. His Philosophy was focused on when LEOs had to take down someone that was very bad, someone that society on its own could not handle. For those encounters where the person being made contact with wasn't your average citizen. For example, there was an incident we studied in the academy where a FL trooper was gunned down. The trooper was an excellent trooper in almost every area. He scored perfect during weapons qualification, and in every respect was a model trooper. However, when confronted with an armed suspect (that charged him firing) he balked and was gunned down. The suspect was a Vietnam Vet that charged him with an M14. There is dashcam footage and if IIRC, you can hear the trooper screaming while the suspect was cold and methodical. During the fight, the trooper was not in a warrior mindset and was overtaken by the suspect (who was in a warrior mindset). This is similar to what Grossman means when he speaks of how to take on wolves. 

The problem is that some officers can't turn it on and off and eventually see everyone as a suspect and not a citizen. The training is only meant to enhance a skill set, not to supplant it. LEOs just need to remember that the warrior is only released when all other options are gone. It isn't easy, but it is necessary to fight a warrior with another warrior.


----------



## Jaknight (Jul 8, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> You're thinking of it in the wrong context. Grossman wasn't breaking down members of society. His Philosophy was focused on when LEOs had to take down someone that was very bad, someone that society on its own could not handle. For those encounters where the person being made contact with wasn't your average citizen. For example, there was an incident we studied in the academy where a FL trooper was gunned down. The trooper was an excellent trooper in almost every area. He scored perfect during weapons qualification, and in every respect was a model trooper. However, when confronted with an armed suspect (that charged him firing) he balked and was gunned down. The suspect was a Vietnam Vet that charged him with an M14. There is dashcam footage and if IIRC, you can hear the trooper screaming while the suspect was cold and methodical. During the fight, the trooper was not in a warrior mindset and was overtaken by the suspect (who was in a warrior mindset). This is similar to what Grossman means when he speaks of how to take on wolves.
> 
> The problem is that some officers can't turn it on and off and eventually see everyone as a suspect and not a citizen. The training is only meant to enhance a skill set, not to supplant it. LEOs just need to remember that the warrior is only released when all other options are gone. It isn't easy, but it is necessary to fight a warrior with another warrior.


Speaking as a civilian I am uncomfortable with whole Warrior mentality training that cops receive I would prefer for them to view themselves as peacekeepers


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> He posted a Hitler quote about Jews.
> 
> DeSean Jackson posts anti-Semitic quotes attributed to Adolf Hitler


I read he was lobbying the league to change his number to double lightning bolts...


----------



## AWP (Jul 8, 2020)

ke4gde said:


> You're thinking of it in the wrong context.



Maybe, I'll grant that. With that said, it was drummed into heads and became a social "cool guy" thing to say and repeat. Whatever Grossman's intentions it became a perverted social construct of "us vs them." That is what it has become, no matter how it started.

Creating a mindset had the secondary outcome of creating a social division, one that shouldn't have to exist in a warrior's mind. Police training or society are so bad that our society had to turn them into "warriors?" They used to be called "peace officers" but now they are "warriors?" Warriors close with and destroy the enemy, they engage in combat. No one seriously thought that turning police into warriors or combatants was a bad idea?

Back when we served together, I bought into sheep and sheepdog. Now? Not in years, it has become something twisted and needs to go away.


----------



## AWP (Jul 8, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I read he was lobbying the league to change his number to double lightning bolts...



Jesus Christ that is savage. He could say it was unintentional and just "55."


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 8, 2020)

Two separate countries now please... I would like to move to the conservative side, wherever that ends up being.

Let the fruits have their way, let the states be separate. If roughly half the country is conservative leaning and roughly half is liberal, let them have the coasts and we'll take the middle. When their utopian society outperforms ours socially and economically, they can build a huge wall to keep us out.


----------



## AWP (Jul 8, 2020)

I have to wonder how much we could do for our country if we addressed our crippling national debt.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 8, 2020)

I thought this was a well written editorial.

OPINION EXCHANGE  |  Visit my neighborhood and tell me we should dismantle MPD

The Charter Commission should do the right thing for the city of Minneapolis and reject the proposed amendment from the City Council to dismantle the Police Department.

Last year I moved from the suburbs to downtown. I wanted to be able to walk to work and to enjoy the entertainment district, the sports, concerts, theaters, museums and restaurants, etc. Within a few weeks I wondered whether I had made a mistake.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> I have to wonder how much we could do for our country if we addressed our crippling national debt.



But that's not sexy.  I mean, have you done Dave Ramsey?  It's hard, and only you know.  America would be SOOOO boring.

Europe:  "Hey, US, wanna join us in a military venture?"
US:  "Naw, fam, I can't.  Saving money, gotta cancel a couple credit cards....."


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> His "sheep, sheepdog, wolf" thing sounds great, but it became a means of denigrating members of society while elevating others. It became a social perception instead of an analogy for what amounts to a division of labor. I remember how people who blindly followed others were lemmings, but now they are sheep. That can't be a coincidence.
> 
> I partially blame how we put veterans on an impossibly high pedestal because it perpetuated, and some revel in it, the sheep/ sheepdog social distinction. While I'm conservative, my fellow conservatives did this. Liberals aren't talking about sheep or sheepdogs...at least not in large numbers. Anecdotally, I don't know of a single left-leaning person to say they are a sheepdog.



Man I am quoting you a lot this morning.  Reminds me of when I plagiarized in research papers (I kid....)

I agree.  A lot of LEOs dig the widening chasm of "us vs them," as it does tend to put them on a pedestal.  Now it's "LE and civilians."  I get Grossman's intent, but a lot of cops went the wrong way with it.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Speaking as a civilian I am uncomfortable with whole Warrior mentality training that cops receive I would prefer for them to view themselves as peacekeepers



This is nothing against you but you are proof of the misinformation and pedestal around the term "peacekeeper".  The peacekeeping concept is done by putting a well armed group of warrior's with their hands tied in the middle of a conflict. 

Until we deal with the worst of our society and keep them separated, law enforcement will need some sort of warrior mentality.  It's naïve to think we'll live in some utopia where a soft hand will keep the people safe.


----------



## Jaknight (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is nothing against you but you are proof of the misinformation and pedestal around the term "peacekeeper".  The peacekeeping concept is done by putting a well armed group of warrior's with their hands tied in the middle of a conflict.
> 
> Until we deal with the worst of our society and keep them separated, law enforcement will need some sort of warrior mentality.  It's naïve to think we'll live in some utopia where a soft hand will keep the people safe.


I have no beliefs that it will be a utopia nor do I think we only need a soft hand. I do think Telling Cops they are warriors is wrong they are not in some war zone where everyone is some hostile enemy. Is their a time when they do need to have the Warrior Mentality? Absolutely but it shouldn’t be their first mindset it should be the last one.  Especially given how much power we give them


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I have no beliefs that it will be a utopia nor do I think we only need a soft hand. I do think Telling Cops they are warriors is wrong they are not in some war zone where everyone is some hostile enemy. Is their a time when they do need to have the Warrior Mentality? Absolutely but it shouldn’t be their first mindset it should be the last one.  Especially given how much power we give them



"Warrior" can have many meanings. It doesn't mean viewing everyone as hostile enemies.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I have no beliefs that it will be a utopia nor do I think we only need a soft hand. I do think Telling Cops they are warriors is wrong they are not in some war zone where everyone is some hostile enemy. Is their a time when they do need to have the Warrior Mentality? Absolutely but it shouldn’t be their first mindset it should be the last one.  Especially given how much power we give them



The problem is that a large percentage of law enforcement encounters are with perceived threats.  If they don't address those contacts with the right mindset, they will become a statistic; either end up in the hospital or a body bag. I suggest there's more problems with society than with law enforcement.  We created this environment where law enforcement need to be aggressive in order to survive.  And as it's been noted previously, that's not an easy thing to turn off.  We accept that fact with the military and do a lot to help us adjust back to so called "normal".


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> The problem is that a large percentage of law enforcement encounters are with perceived threats.  If they don't address those contacts with the right mindset, they will become a statistic; either end up in the hospital or a body bag. I suggest there's more problems with society than with law enforcement.  We created this environment where law enforcement need to be aggressive in order to survive.  And as it's been noted previously, that's not an easy thing to turn off.  We accept that fact with the military and do a lot to help us adjust back to so called "normal".



It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, no?  Cops encounter perceived threats with a higher degree of "warriorness", the threats amp up equal to what the cops are doing, and the cycle perpetuates.  Totally agree part of the problem is society; probably way more so than with LE.  The seedier, more dangerous aspects of society as a whole have become worse which indeed necessitates a different LE response.

I grew up watching The Andy Griffith Show, and the town I lived in wasn't too far off from Mayberry at the time...4 cops, one of who was the chief, who never carried a gun.  But those were different times.  WAY different.


----------



## Jaknight (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> The problem is that a large percentage of law enforcement encounters are with perceived threats.  If they don't address those contacts with the right mindset, they will become a statistic; either end up in the hospital or a body bag. I suggest there's more problems with society than with law enforcement.  We created this environment where law enforcement need to be aggressive in order to survive.  And as it's been noted previously, that's not an easy thing to turn off.  We accept that fact with the military and do a lot to help us adjust back to so called "normal".


 How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?



I'm not in law enforcement and I'm sure what is done now, differs a lot between organizations.  But basically, better regular mental health, decompression time after a difficult shift or even, increased and diverse training, especially scenario based training.  From scenario based shooting, to de-escalation techniques and more grappling/hand to hand training.  Remove the Politics from the senior leadership positions and have leader's support their people, instead of throwing them to media fire. 

Someone that definitely can say things better than me, is Jocko Willink. 

Retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink: Why police officers need far more training


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I have no beliefs that it will be a utopia nor do I think we only need a soft hand. I do think Telling Cops they are warriors is wrong they are not in some war zone where everyone is some hostile enemy. Is their a time when they do need to have the Warrior Mentality? Absolutely but it shouldn’t be their first mindset it should be the last one.  Especially given how much power we give them



IMO, it's better to perceive a threat and be prepared, than to not. You can quickly assess the situation and make the determination a threat doesn't exist. You do things the other way, you don't come home. Same overseas, everyone is a threat until deemed otherwise, but that doesn't mean you have to approach the situation with hostile intentions. 



RackMaster said:


> The problem is that a large percentage of law enforcement encounters are with perceived threats.  If they don't address those contacts with the right mindset, they will become a statistic; either end up in the hospital or a body bag. I suggest there's more problems with society than with law enforcement.  We created this environment where law enforcement need to be aggressive in order to survive.  And as it's been noted previously, that's not an easy thing to turn off.  We accept that fact with the military and do a lot to help us adjust back to so called "normal".



Agreed.



Jaknight said:


> How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?



Experience. The problem with experience? It's often learned during the event you needed it the most. What about the people with the complete opposite mindset? I'd say a majority of cops lack the training, competence, and wherewithal to protect the populous from threats, let alone protect themselves.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

RE: training, interestingly other countries with far fewer cop-related homicides in the line of duty also have much more training; some places require a degree.

Once upon a time in the military we had "on" at 100 and "off" at 0, no rotating dial to dial up or back response to threats.  Nor did we have training in how to dial up/back aggression and "warrior" mindset.  But now we do both, after decades of experience fighting the 3-block war and a realization that when we get home, we just can't "turn it off".  LE deserves the same thing, but they are a package deal.  You can't have one without the other.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Man I am quoting you a lot this morning.  Reminds me of when I plagiarized in research papers (I kid....)
> 
> I agree.  A lot of LEOs dig the widening chasm of "us vs them," as it does tend to put them on a pedestal.  Now it's "LE and civilians."  I get Grossman's intent, but a lot of cops went the wrong way with it.


It may be that the missing element mitigating or even precluding this deviation in Grossman's (and some others') intent with 'Warrior'-style training is a fundamental identification of the trainee with the community that is being policed.  

A shift towards policies that prioritize or incentivize local-area or community hires may be a step in the right direction to correcting this "us vs. them" issue without sacrificing the training.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> It may be that the missing element mitigating or even precluding this deviation in Grossman's (and some others') intent with 'Warrior'-style training is a fundamental identification of the trainee with the community that is being policed.
> 
> A shift towards policies that prioritize or incentivize local-area or community hires may be a step in the right direction to correcting this "us vs. them" issue without sacrificing the training.



You'll never get enough local applicants and not all will qualify.  Also don't forget that currently, "snitches get stitches" isn't just a saying; it's a culture.  And someone local that becomes an officer, will probably not be trusted.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 8, 2020)

Going on a ride along will open everyone's eyes.  I did that three years ago and it showed me what that officer had to do for ten hours.  You know how officers get dehumanized?  When they have to give citations to old guys who are recycling cardboard out of "municipally owned" dumpsters. 

We the people are responsible for the dehumanization of Law Enforcement Officers.  We the people are the ones who vote on local ordinances or elect politicians that make the municipal codes that LEOs have to enforce.  Do you think they want to spend all day handing out tickets to guys recycling waste?



Locksteady said:


> It may be that the missing element mitigating or even precluding this deviation in Grossman's (and some others') intent with 'Warrior'-style training is a fundamental identification of the trainee with the community that is being policed.
> 
> A shift towards policies that prioritize or incentivize local-area or community hires may be a step in the right direction to correcting this "us vs. them" issue without sacrificing the training.



Every time someone brings up community policing, they are ones that don't get it.  In crime ridden communities, a police officer living in the "hood" is just a target.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> You'll never get enough local applicants and not all will qualify.  Also don't forget that currently, "snitches get stitches" isn't just a saying; it's a culture.  And someone local that becomes an officer, will probably not be trusted.



We get a lot of local community people who hire on to the dept. Not sure what departments you have ever worked on, but to say it's a culture of ALL law enforcement in the US is just wrong.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> You'll never get enough local applicants


Fortunately, the suggestion wasn't to limit police departments to local hires.  The suggestion was that a shift towards policies that prioritize and incentivize local hires may be a step in the right direction towards correcting the unintended "us vs. them" issue that may manifest after Warrior-style training.  Additionally, prioritizing or incentivizing local hiring isn't necessary if you already have a surplus of local applicants, and areas in which your claim is true is the specific reason I mentioned that strategy.





RackMaster said:


> and not all will qualify.


As with most applicant pools. 





RackMaster said:


> Also don't forget that currently, "snitches get stitches" isn't just a saying; it's a culture.  And someone local that becomes an officer, will probably not be trusted.


The existence of other complications associated with local residents policing their own districts doesn't nullify the rationale for encouraging people who relate to and identify with the community at large to do the actual policing as a first step to addressing the widening "us vs. them" mentality that skews so many LEOs so far away from Grossman's supposed intent with Warrior training.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> We get a lot of local community people who hire on to the dept. Not sure what departments you have ever worked on, but to say it's a culture of ALL law enforcement in the US is just wrong.



I wasn't referring to the law enforcement culture.  It's a community culture or now more of a youth culture.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 8, 2020)

Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?



That's an excellent idea.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?



*Sincerely great Q. *

What you will NEVER hear the dispatcher say: "Domestic as 2411 Ash but don't worry about it, it's no big deal". "Wreck at the intersection of x and x but no big deal" 2 dead, 4yrs old and 5yrs old".

Like @ThunderHorse  mentioned - The old guy recycling cardboard? That's how he buys his food and booze and has for years and he just wants to be left alone. That _pigsticker_ in his belt *you took for granted* Rookie? You shouldn't have!

No day is a normal day for the Blue line. They have a hard time turning it off and on ~ and the second they turn if off, they don't go home.

Grace and Situational Awareness get them home everyday. Just my 2.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 8, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?



You teach your kids how to present as a safe and compliant person when dealing with law enforcement. 

It's that fucking simple. Hell, I may get with a deputy locally and "get stopped" specifically so I can get the kid the experience of just chill, it's not a problem to talk with the cops, right wrong or indifferent.

That way you don't heebee jeebee the cops when you get stopped and keep that meter swinging from "safe" into "threat" and get treated as such.

Please note:
https://dam.tmz.com/document/f6/o/2020/07/08/f67735b0ca9c4e55a8070fb50af753a6.pdf

George Floyd acted the fool, plain and simple. What needs to happen when you deal with LE as a suspect, is yes sir no sir complying near instantly sir. They're the ref, they're in charge. You can either do the fuck they say or get a penalty, or ejected from the fucking game for being stupid. Your choice.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?



The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.

But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.
> 
> But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.



You keep continuity with the leadership. Establish a "tour time" for assignment to the busiest areas (year or two or whatever) as a minimum time to be there, and give them prioritized station of choice following minimum tour. Keep an eye on them and let them do what they can take, and shift them out either on their own request or when they need it but don't want to "puss out".


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> You keep continuity with the leadership. Establish a "tour time" for assignment to the busiest areas (year or two or whatever) as a minimum time to be there, and give them prioritized station of choice following minimum tour. Keep an eye on them and let them do what they can take, and shift them out either on their own request or when they need it but don't want to "puss out".



I'm down with that, but then I've never been assigned to patrol or anything like that, I was just on the tactical team.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 8, 2020)

Not realistic.....you already pull officers from surrounding beats for the heavy call load all the time....there is no "do this" to fix this, every department is different and has to figure this out from within every department.  

It's like somebody from a command staff, who has never been in a ranger regiment, writing doctrine for the 75th.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.
> 
> But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.



And that is part of community policing or whatever they call it. You rotate guys out and staff it with guys who aren’t familiar, you have dudes who are on edge, treating everyone like a suspect. It’s not that different than handing off battlespace to a new unit.

The next time the FBI, DEA, or local drug task force do a large scale operation, watch the blotter first that area in the weeks following.  The fight for power is phenomenal.  There is never a plan in place to address the power vacuum or handle the petty crime that the local crew took care of.

I won’t go into Grossman other than saying I’m not fan. He’s in it for the money peddling his BS to anyone who will pay. Go to any cop convention where he’s speaking and you see a plethora of overweight cops wearing sheepdog or gruntstyle shirts.

As for fixing things, leaders in these agencies need to step up. LE needs to be part of the conversation, not excluded from it. How do you turn it off? Training + experience + maturity. Years ago I sat through a presentation by one of our chiefs who addressed some of this and I recognized a lot of the problems he talked about in myself. One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.

I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago.  For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. Learn to treat people like humans. I’ve fought to get handcuffs on dudes an had them apologize to me after the fact. Why? Because I handled business and when it was over it was over.  Hell, we hooked up a dude a few hrs ago who had been on the run for a couple years for a laundry list of crimes. After he asked if he could call his girl. The dudes deferred to me and I said yep. Why?  Why not?  Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day?  No one. You can be a dick, or not.  You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 8, 2020)

They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving. 

NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 8, 2020)

Because they want to furlough without paying retirement.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving.
> 
> NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week



" LE needs to be part of the conversation, not excluded from it. How do you turn it off? Training + experience + maturity." Good statement!

You lose the experience and maturity from the older officers retiring....plus this includes line supervisors, middle management...etc.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving.
> 
> NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week


Guys with 20 plus years are going to be ROAD warriors.  They will keep submitting retirement applications until they get approved.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 9, 2020)

This is a very interesting report:

Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'

Running on the assumption the details  in 
this report are true, it really poses a problem to any murder charges.  If Chauvin believed Floyd was fine because he was talking, it points much more to a training issue.  

The release of full body cam footage will be very interesting in filling the gaps of what occurred between the footage we saw outside the market and the footage showing Floyd's death, especially if he was indeed thrashing around and harming himself in the squad.


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> This is a very interesting report:
> 
> Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'
> 
> ...




Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 9, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?


A question that always remained outstanding to me was, how did Floyd end up on the pavement outside the squad?  It's not answered in any video we've seen so far.  In the video outside the market, Floyd generally appears cooperative.  However, the transcript indicates he was thrashing about and harming himself inside the squad, which explains why he was pulled out and restrained.  

A prosecutor can argue many things, but if the items reported are true, it makes it awfully difficult to argue murder.  People tell police officers all kinds of things when they're being detained, including they can't breathe.  So, I don't know an argument indicating he was being "sadistic" holds any weight.  To me, the "better" argument is that he was potentially negligent in continuing to apply pressure once Floyd lost consciousness, but that's more appropriate to manslaughter as opposed to murder.  And even then, the counter may be that he wasn't knowingly negligent if that'show he was trained and there were other mitigating factors.  

Regardless, I think this is very important information in shaping the argument.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jul 9, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.
> 
> I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago.  For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. _Learn to treat people like humans_. ----   Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day? No one. You can be a dick, or not.  You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.



When Rusty writes, read it all and take it to heart - ie, long and storied SOF and LEA career{s} 
IMHO, the point of the underlined is to take all of the different influences of daily life you can now and be that better person, and the faster the better. As an LEO, stop and buy that lemonade from that little girls lemonade stand, stop and play football or basketball with that kiddo playing sports...whatever it may be.  

Hell, when I wrote that the Question was "sincerely a good question", that answer, subliminally, subconsciously, applies to ALL OF US in some ways. We all need to treat each other better.


----------



## AWP (Jul 10, 2020)

Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.

You think the riots are now? Buckle up.


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.
> 
> You think the riots are now? Buckle up.




There was a guy recently on JRE thats been linked here pretty recently that touches on this. In the name of Justice someone needs to go to jail, but in the name of the law do the officers fit that bill without a shadow of a doubt?

Not to mention if it turns out that these guys walk due to them not having technically broken the law, is that what is best for our Nation as a whole?


ETA: here's the guy talking about it, all in all probably the best JRE podcast to come out in a while


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.
> 
> You think the riots are now? Buckle up.


Agree 100%. It seems to be a real possibility.  

Here's the other thing, there is already a contingency in place for this. Remember, the MN AG, with no experience (maybe not even a valid law license) took the lead on this from the county prosecutor.  The AG is a complete political activist.  If he loses, he gets to claim "the system" is rigged against black people.."see, the entire system must be scrapped".  And we'll sit back and watch things burn again.

This rush to judgement is a real problem in society, and we're all guilty of it.  We see a short clip or two of an incident, a bunch of officials make statements, and we convict people before they've even gone to trial.  

George Floyd did not deserve to die no matter how you slice it. But holy shit, based on a few things we've seen (autopsy, body cam transcripts, dispatch  transcripts/statements) going for a murder charge against all 4 officers doesn't seem to fit.  I was skeptical before, even moreso now.  These facts are not going to be popular in many circles and now, with a gag order in place, who knows what else is being presented.  Crazy stuff.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 10, 2020)

Cool, Chauvin thought "can't choke if you talk".

How about the 4ish minutes after Floyd passes out? 

Because going off the "talking=breathing" assumption, not talking is a problem, right?


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 10, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Cool, Chauvin thought "can't choke if you talk".
> 
> How about the 4ish minutes after Floyd passes out?
> 
> Because going off the "talking=breathing" assumption, not talking is a problem, right?


It's a more than a fair question, although I don't think he was out for 4 min.  Nonetheless, that actually is the real question...and does that amount to negligence or something more intentional?  If you think it's something.more, how do you prove it? It may be a real challenge.


----------



## Airbud (Jul 10, 2020)

I certainly don’t envy whoever ends up on the jury for this trial.


AWP said:


> Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.
> 
> You think the riots are now? Buckle up.



Especially if this ^ is the case.

Bret Weinstein touched on that in the JRE podcast. It seems like it will be incredibly difficult to get an impartial jury, given the knowledge that a not-guilty verdict (whether correct or not), will result in mass rioting (and almost certainly more deaths).


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 10, 2020)

I was trying to really hurt somebody, or make them extremely uncomfortable in a painful way then they died.

What law would I be breaking in Minnesota?


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 10, 2020)

Even if the cop is found innocent of criminal charges, there will be a civil lawsuit the magnitude of which will be of epic proportions.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 10, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> When Rusty writes, read it all and take it to heart - ie, long and storied SOF and LEA career{s}
> IMHO, the point of the underlined is to take all of the different influences of daily life you can now and be that better person, and the faster the better. As an LEO, stop and buy that lemonade from that little girls lemonade stand, stop and play football or basketball with that kiddo playing sports...whatever it may be.
> 
> Hell, when I wrote that the Question was "sincerely a good question", that answer, subliminally, subconsciously, applies to ALL OF US in some ways. We all need to treat each other better.



Thanks brother. I don’t know about long and storied, but it’s been a good ride so far.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 10, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> And that is part of community policing or whatever they call it. You rotate guys out and staff it with guys who aren’t familiar, you have dudes who are on edge, treating everyone like a suspect. It’s not that different than handing off battlespace to a new unit.
> 
> The next time the FBI, DEA, or local drug task force do a large scale operation, watch the blotter first that area in the weeks following.  The fight for power is phenomenal.  There is never a plan in place to address the power vacuum or handle the petty crime that the local crew took care of.
> 
> ...



The more I read this, the more gems I see.  The bolded/italicized stuff, I say that all the time, to my coworkers, to my kids.  "Your 'who' is more important than your 'do'".  I saw this in the military, I saw it when I was a paramedic, I see it in nursing, and I saw it when I was on the PD tactical team with the cops.  But to get there takes maturity and experience; it's largely a product of individual growth and mentoring.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.
> 
> You think the riots are now? Buckle up.


Especially if we're locked down again whenever that verdict is delivered.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Even if the cop is found innocent of criminal charges, there will be a civil lawsuit the magnitude of which will be of epic proportions.


Yep.  Minneapolis has been forking out some huge settlements lately and when we get to this one, they'll pale in comparison.  They also need to worry about the fact that over 150 officers have filed for disability the past few weeks, citing PTSD.  Combined with Covid and everything else, the city is about to take a huge financial kick in the ball sack.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yep.  Minneapolis has been forking out some huge settlements lately and when we get to this one, they'll pale in comparison.  They also need to worry about the fact that over 150 officers have filed for disability the past few weeks, citing PTSD.  *Combined with Covid and everything else, the city is about to take a huge financial kick in the ball sack*.



Us Christians would say,  Gal. 6: 7-9 (KJV) 7: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: *for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also *_*reap*_.

Or, karma's a bitch.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2020)

Seriously. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281604505017241601


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seriously.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281604505017241601


Every SJW ever...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yep.  Minneapolis has been forking out some huge settlements lately and when we get to this one, they'll pale in comparison.  They also need to worry about the fact that over 150 officers have filed for disability the past few weeks, citing PTSD.  Combined with Covid and everything else, the city is about to take a huge financial kick in the ball sack.





Devildoc said:


> Us Christians would say,  Gal. 6: 7-9 (KJV) 7: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: *for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also *_*reap*_.
> 
> Or, karma's a bitch.....


Problem is the useful idiots, who fed these flames, are gonna try and push the cost onto productive citizens. Only people getting shafted are local businesses and Joe/Jill, unless they band together and clean out MN's Marxist skewed political system they're boned.



ThunderHorse said:


> Seriously.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281604505017241601





Ooh-Rah said:


> Every SJW ever...


I don't know about y'all, but I've moved on from open disgust to humorous cynicism. 



Spoiler: Uncanny Ain't It?


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 10, 2020)

Why is "all lives matter", especially from a civil servant, so hurtful or anti-black? I mean, all lives, would encompass black, no?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 10, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Why is "all lives matter", especially from a civil servant, so hurtful or anti-black? I mean, all lives, would encompass black, no?


Because “all lives” cannot matter until “black lives” matter.  

At least that is what my enlightened nephew tells me.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 10, 2020)

Filed under....

What did you think was going to happen?

Attorney: MPD officers filing for disability at 'unprecedented' levels


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Filed under....
> 
> What did you think was going to happen?
> 
> Attorney: MPD officers filing for disability at 'unprecedented' levels


pay to view article

1% of the NYPD has submitted retirement papers in the last 90 days, 3x normal and another batch becomes eligible in September.  Cops with 20+ years will become a rarity.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Because “all lives” cannot matter until “black lives” matter.
> 
> At least that is what my enlightened nephew tells me.


Yeah, we probably lost a couple of friends because their daughter went all SJW on FB.  
Her contribution: I call people out.
My response, whoop de do, FB posts don't mean shit.  Sponsor a disadvantaged youth at your work.
Unfriended, and blocked.
Oh well, derka derka.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> pay to view article
> 
> 1% of the NYPD has submitted retirement papers in the last 90 days, 3x normal and another batch becomes eligible in September.  Cops with 20+ years will become a rarity.


And again....what did you think was going to happen.

An uptick in NYPD retirements and a canceled police cadet class 'could spell disaster for the city'


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Her contribution: I call people out.


Meet my nephew.
His contribution:  I call people out.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meet my nephew.
> His contribution:  I call people out.




Seems to be a lot of that going around these days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2020)

WTF, over. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281773049155661832
At some point, people of means will sue against the civil liability immunity protections that prosecutors have.  Will they be the couple?  I think there will be a reckoning, and I can't wait for all of these SJW DAs to get a shit sandwich to eat.


----------



## AWP (Jul 11, 2020)

1920's Gangsters: What a great time to be a criminal in the US.
2020 everyone: Hold my protest sign.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 11, 2020)

^I hope they have a friend or a back up AR. I'm sure the mob would like to come back.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 11, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^I hope they have a friend or a back up AR. I'm sure the mob would like to come back.


I have a couple of buddies who if a self/defense situation were to arise, their remaining guns would be distributed amongst the group.  Just to prevent the State or Feds to come looking for anything else.


----------



## Lefty375 (Jul 11, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Why is "all lives matter", especially from a civil servant, so hurtful or anti-black? I mean, all lives, would encompass black, no?



If you want an honest answer, it's because #ALM is not philosophically grounded. It is, in essence, a reactionary movement only in response to BLM. This makes it seem not genuine. In other words, there is nothing grounding All Lives Matter if Black Lives Matter were to disappear tomorrow. If BLM is gone, ALM would disappear. Weird! (This isn't necessarily true, but is my intuition). 

Notice here how this is very different from the capitalism vs socialism fight. Neither is necessarily reactionary. That is, both have solid philosophical grounds on which to stand. Both can be advocated for without necessarily invoking the other.

Imagine if there as an organization that is calling for the proper care of treatment for Army Rangers after a combat injury--Ranger Lives Matter. Then some Air Force guy takes offense to this and says well "All Military Matter"!!!!!!! Of course, Rangers aren't saying _only_ Rangers matter, that would be dumb and a straw-man. We are just calling for the proper treatment of Rangers after combat injuries. That doesn't mean other people shouldn't start organizations to help drone operators with their PTSD. It would, however, be weird to adopt the slogan Drone Operator Lives Matter but _only after_ Ranger Lives Matter exists. On my intuition this seemingly reactionary slogan makes it seem less genuine and in good faith.

I'm not here to play team red or blue. I don't care. I'm just trying to explain how #ALM as a slogan has bad optics for a civil servant without invoking "you can't care about all lives until you care about black lives". Hopefully, I have done that here.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> WTF, over.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281773049155661832
> At some point, people of means will sue against the civil liability immunity protections that prosecutors have.  Will they be the couple?  I think there will be a reckoning, and I can't wait for all of these SJW DAs to get a shit sandwich to eat.


I read the article and no where does it state on what basis the search warrant was issued or why the guns were confiscated.  That's a pretty important fact to omit.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 11, 2020)

Lefty375 said:


> If you want an honest answer, it's because #ALM is not philosophically grounded. It is, in essence, a reactionary movement only in response to BLM. This makes it seem not genuine. In other words, there is nothing grounding All Lives Matter if Black Lives Matter were to disappear tomorrow. If BLM is gone, ALM would disappear. Weird! (This isn't necessarily true, but is my intuition).
> 
> Notice here how this is very different from the capitalism vs socialism fight. Neither is necessarily reactionary. That is, both have solid philosophical grounds on which to stand. Both can be advocated for without necessarily invoking the other.
> 
> ...



I'm just over here eating my popcorn as BLM and others around that movement share their openly anti-semitic views.  Here's a great one, how do they treat Sephardic Jews from North Africa?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I read the article and no where does it state on what basis the search warrant was issued or why the guns were confiscated.  That's a pretty important fact to omit.


The only way to know that is for someone to do a FOIA to get the warrant I'm sure.  

McCloskeys served with search warrant, police take rifle shown in viral pictures

McCloskeys served with search warrant, police take rifle shown in viral pictures

Local press state that the search warrant was "just for the guns."  Like why?


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The only way to know that is for someone to do a FOIA to get the warrant I'm sure.
> 
> McCloskeys served with search warrant, police take rifle shown in viral pictures
> 
> ...


You'd think their attorney and ACLU would be crying foul...2A and 4A violations...unless something else is amiss.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 11, 2020)

Lefty375 said:


> If you want an honest answer, it's because #ALM is not philosophically grounded. It is, in essence, a reactionary movement only in response to BLM. This makes it seem not genuine. In other words, there is nothing grounding All Lives Matter if Black Lives Matter were to disappear tomorrow. If BLM is gone, ALM would disappear. Weird! (This isn't necessarily true, but is my intuition).
> 
> Notice here how this is very different from the capitalism vs socialism fight. Neither is necessarily reactionary. That is, both have solid philosophical grounds on which to stand. Both can be advocated for without necessarily invoking the other.
> 
> ...


Not sure if it helps, but I may have have a simpler explanation.

I've been looking at the BLM stuff from the optic of "Fobbit Lives Matter". In other words, if the Fobbits don't get "respect" they're gonna stop issuing gear and doing support stuff. Meanwhile the grunts and non-fobbits are going, "We All Matter, do your jobs Fobbits!".

As for organization... the Fobbits are being organized by some peeved off SJW Pentagon Officer, whose been freebasing estrogen, soy, and Carl Marx  (courtesy of their rich uncle). Meanwhile the grunts and non-fobbits are still adhering to their respective chains of command, while pulling extra duty, to maintain mission op tempo.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 11, 2020)

"Local press state that the search warrant was "just for the guns." Like why?" 

It depends on what the offense is that the SW is supporting.  Probably some kind of assault charge for pointing the guns at the demonstrators...if so, the guns seen on the images is the evidence the SW is looking for.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 11, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> "Local press state that the search warrant was "just for the guns." Like why?"
> 
> It depends on what the offense is that the SW is supporting.  Probably some kind of assault charge for pointing the guns at the demonstrators...if so, the guns seen on the images is the evidence the SW is looking for.


Yeah I get that.  But the people they were "brandishing" towards were in fact on their property.  Therefore, I can't wait for this DA to lose civil liability protections and sued into the ground.  If you remember, Law Enforcement was investigating this as Criminal Trespass and the McCloskeys were the victims.  It was the DA that said she would go after them.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 11, 2020)

Agreed...not sure who is pushing this, but if St. Louis Police executed the warrant then they are also pushing this.  A DA's office can't force a PD to take action, but can either support or deny action a PD takes.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 12, 2020)

Saw this in my school email today:


----------



## Muppet (Jul 12, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Saw this in my school email today:
> 
> View attachment 34834



Are you even surprised? That whole fucking AO is a prom night dumpster baby abortion. Temple is pandering to the social justice dickheads that are anti-cop. I was down there the other day. It's a fucking war zone but it's crickets when a 10 year old catches a round to the dome piece. 

The crime in the city has gone up, our resident cop/medic is fucking busy I'm sure. This entire thing is a fucking joke. Universities, celebrities and companies are pandering to useful idiots and BLM, it's a joke.

I'm glad I exfil'd that cesspool 20 years ago, not like where I'm at (15) miles north is any better but at least it's not there.

City cops not supported by city hall, a DA that panders to the scum of the city while outwardly condeming Philly PD. 

Let that cesspool burn.


----------



## DasBoot (Jul 12, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Not sure if it helps, but I may have have a simpler explanation.
> 
> I've been looking at the BLM stuff from the optic of "Fobbit Lives Matter". In other words, if the Fobbits don't get "respect" they're gonna stop issuing gear and doing support stuff. Meanwhile the grunts and non-fobbits are going, "We All Matter, do your jobs Fobbits!".
> 
> As for organization... the Fobbits are being organized by some peeved off SJW Pentagon Officer, whose been freebasing estrogen, soy, and Carl Marx  (courtesy of their rich uncle). Meanwhile the grunts and non-fobbits are still adhering to their respective chains of command, while pulling extra duty, to maintain mission op tempo.


----------



## AWP (Jul 12, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Are you even surprised? That whole fucking AO is a prom night dumpster baby abortion. Temple is pandering to the social justice dickheads that are anti-cop. I was down there the other day. It's a fucking war zone but it's crickets when a 10 year old catches a round to the dome piece.
> 
> The crime in the city has gone up, our resident cop/medic is fucking busy I'm sure. This entire thing is a fucking joke. Universities, celebrities and companies are pandering to useful idiots and BLM, it's a joke.
> 
> ...



Get.
The.
Fuck.
Out.
Of.
Philly.

Save yourself and those you love.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> Get.
> The.
> Fuck.
> Out.
> ...



I've been out since 2000. I'm just north now. Our resident cop/medic and I trained together in Philly, I'm born/raised there. That's how he and I became tight.

Unfortunately, my wife's aunt lives in the city, actually, not far from Temple, in the Kensington section, a truthful shit hole full of scallywag scoundrels, junkies, drug dealers and lots of homicides. 

We go down there at least twice a month, I try to not cross the city line that my county connects. My anxiety heightens and my anger gets bad when I do.

At this point, I'd rather be in Lancaster County, far away from those mutts.

God willing, sooner than later, my wife will accept my wishes to move to Idaho, Wyoming or Montana.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 12, 2020)

God knows we have our own shit sandwich in North Carolina but compared to some of these other places it's the land of milk and honey....

I absolutely understand the family connection, ironically the only family I have here are my in-laws, all transplants from Buffalo NY, and my wife doesn't want to leave them.  I would head towards North Carolina coast in an absolute heartbeat if I could.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 12, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> View attachment 34835


Sure it wasn't an unforgettable night in Seattle's bohemian district? No judgement, just love. 

...

In other news, additional proof the BLM movement is a sham. Woman was murdered in public cause she didn't toe the BLM lie.
Family of downtown canal shooting victim seeks justice


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280218660536270854


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 12, 2020)

So I saw the hashtag and thought there would be a lot of anti-semitic shit on there from BLM types.  I clicked the hashtag for Jewish Privilege and you had jews talking about their experiences with anti-semitic and racist abuses against them.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Sure it wasn't an unforgettable night in Seattle's bohemian district? No judgement, just love.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Lol. Sure. 0300 downtown and there have been several homicides in that area over the last week. That’s putting a hard right spin on a murder if I ever saw one.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 14, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Lol. Sure. 0300 downtown and there have been several homicides in that area over the last week. That’s putting a hard right spin on a murder if I ever saw one.


At the local level that might seem inconsequential, just another day at the canal. Looking at things at the national level though, this is another instance of racially motivated violence. Between mobs beating small business owners to death, assaulting little old ladies, and everything else, one can safely assume the criminal class is using this Floyd BS as a justification/cover for their actions.

Right now it's open season on the rest of us.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 14, 2020)

I'm sure a social worker response would have kept the murder from happening....

On serious note....people that scream defund the police, need to start looking at large cities where violent crime is on the upturn. We will see violence go back to the late 80's early 90's days.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 14, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> We will see violence go back to the late 80's early 90's days.


See also:
Minneapolis (Murderapolis)1995.
you could literally buy t-shirt.

Washington Post - 1995


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 14, 2020)

Listening to DeBlasio's plan to try and stem the surge of violent crime on this clip...wait I thought we didn't need cops and we were paying too much overtime?  Specifically 1:20 to 1:37.  The rest of it could be in the Gun Control thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 14, 2020)

Violence from this past weekend in Olympia, Washington:

https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/crime/article244188872.html

Child rapist arrested at Antifa brawl in Washington state


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 14, 2020)

New York has never admitted their gun laws don't work and have placed blame on other factors....


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 14, 2020)

I live in NY now. Their guns laws are a total pain in the ass.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 14, 2020)

Wait, don't cut the Anti-Crime Unit!

In Wake Of Continued Gun Violence, Prominent Members Of Black Community Call On NYPD To Bring Back Anti-Crime Unit


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> At the local level that might seem inconsequential, just another day at the canal. Looking at things at the national level though, this is another instance of racially motivated violence. Between mobs beating small business owners to death, assaulting little old ladies, and everything else, one can safely assume the criminal class is using this Floyd BS as a justification/cover for their actions.
> 
> Right now it's open season on the rest of us.



I have no doubt that it was racially motivated. Just like the other homicides down there recently. That said, there’s been an uptick in shootings downtown which is relatively rare in that area.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 15, 2020)

I think these attorneys have a point.  For context, Ellison is now Minnesota’s Attorney General.

Ex-MPD Officers' Attorneys Ask George Floyd Judge To Hold AG Keith Ellison In Contempt

to add: Earl Grey is who anyone who could afford him, wants defending them.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> I have no doubt that it was racially motivated. Just like the other homicides down there recently. That said, there’s been an uptick in shootings downtown which is relatively rare in that area.


I haven't seen any actual evidence to support what I'm about to say but, anecdotally, my guess is violent crime is up rather significantly in every major city in the country.  Locally, thugs were emboldened by a lack of support to police departments from elected officials and a lack of response to unrest in general.  Unless that changes, this elevated level of crime will continue.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I think these attorneys have a point.  For context, Ellison is now Minnesota’s Attorney General.
> 
> Ex-MPD Officers' Attorneys Ask George Floyd Judge To Hold AG Keith Ellison In Contempt


Not surprised and agree, the attorneys have a valid argument.  Ellison is a tool.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 15, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> I have no doubt that it was racially motivated. Just like the other homicides down there recently. That said, there’s been an uptick in shootings downtown which is relatively rare in that area.


Prior to this debacle, how common in your eyes we're racially motivated crimes compared to now? I've been looking at the FBI's UCR's but the navigation is a mess and the most recent data isn't going to be up for a while.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

James Woods may be new favorite Hollywood-type.  Generally, I don't have much time or interest in any of that crowd but, damn, some of his Tweets are entertaining...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283438509353652224


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 15, 2020)

Looks like at least certain companies won't tolerate Anti-Semitism.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283204708606377985


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Looks like at least certain companies won't tolerate Anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283204708606377985


Don't worry, that douche P. Diddy or whatever he goes by these said he loves what Cannon represents and offered him a position at whatever half ass network he is running.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 15, 2020)

WALSH: If We Are Tearing Down Memorials To Men Who Did Bad Things, What About George Floyd Memorials?

We want to tear down monuments to bad people, how about we don't build any either.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 16, 2020)

Remember when MLK wanted people to be judged on the content of their character, and not the color of their skin?


----------



## medicchick (Jul 16, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Remember when MLK wanted people to be judged on the content of their character, and not the color of their skin?


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Violence from this past weekend in Olympia, Washington:
> 
> https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/crime/article244188872.html
> 
> Child rapist arrested at Antifa brawl in Washington state


I was in Olympia this weekend. Downtown, walking around, having lunch. I was there for like- 6 hours? I literally saw zero unrest, protests, soy boys... 

Being in Seattle/Olympia during both the COVID and race riots (sort of ground zero for both) has really shown me exactly what all news organizations are. Not trustworthy.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I haven't seen any actual evidence to support what I'm about to say but, anecdotally, my guess is violent crime is up rather significantly in every major city in the country.  Locally, thugs were emboldened by a lack of support to police departments from elected officials and a lack of response to unrest in general.  Unless that changes, this elevated level of crime will continue.



I don't know that I would classify my little berg of approx 275,000 a "major city," but we've had a handful--4 or 5--multiple shootings (groups of 5-10 people), all in 'bad neighborhoods' and most likely gang related, within the past week.  The SJW scene has been calling for defunding the police, a lot of the more affluent black people have called for disbanding patrol, yet the locals in these neighborhoods have been calling for more police presence and involvement.  

I swear it's like watching a custody battle between two fighting parents....


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I don't know that I would classify my little berg of approx 275,000 a "major city," but we've had a handful--4 or 5--multiple shootings (groups of 5-10 people), all in 'bad neighborhoods' and most likely gang related, within the past week.  The SJW scene has been calling for defunding the police, a lot of the more affluent black people have called for disbanding patrol, yet the locals in these neighborhoods have been calling for more police presence and involvement.
> 
> I swear it's like watching a custody battle between two fighting parents....


Sounds familiar.  Seeing much of the same here.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I don't know that I would classify my little berg of approx 275,000 a "major city," but we've had a handful--4 or 5--multiple shootings (groups of 5-10 people), all in 'bad neighborhoods' and most likely gang related, within the past week.  The SJW scene has been calling for defunding the police, a lot of the more affluent black people have called for disbanding patrol, yet the locals in these neighborhoods have been calling for more police presence and involvement.
> 
> I swear it's like watching a custody battle between two fighting parents....


Let me guess, the SJW's and "Black Leaders" don't live in those neighborhoods?


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 16, 2020)

I say we put on a social experiment and have all law enforcement officers take a week off. But also broadcast which week it is so everybody understands the timeline.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Let me guess, the SJW's and "Black Leaders" don't live in those neighborhoods?



Hell, most of the SJWs here don't even live here, like ANTIFA they travel in buses for the _cause de jour_....


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Prior to this debacle, how common in your eyes we're racially motivated crimes compared to now? I've been looking at the FBI's UCR's but the navigation is a mess and the most recent data isn't going to be up for a while.



The homicide rate in Indy was already skyrocketing this year and most of the murders were in the usual areas. The stuff going on downtown has been after midnight, in areas where people tend to hangout around the time bars close. I can’t really speak to race related aspects as I don’t have actual numbers.  That may change after the next big meeting with impd. 

As of a few weeks ago, crime in general was down here. Not sure if that’s still the case.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 16, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> The homicide rate in Indy was already skyrocketing this year and most of the murders were in the usual areas. The stuff going on downtown has been after midnight, in areas where people tend to hangout around the time bars close. I can’t really speak to race related aspects as I don’t have actual numbers.  That may change after the next big meeting with impd.
> 
> As of a few weeks ago, crime in general was down here. Not sure if that’s still the case.


Wonder how the numbers are going to look. I would've assumed the Kung Flu lock down might've kept people indoors and outta trouble.



amlove21 said:


> I was in Olympia this weekend. Downtown, walking around, having lunch. I was there for like- 6 hours? I literally saw zero unrest, protests, soy boys...
> 
> Being in Seattle/Olympia during both the COVID and race riots (sort of ground zero for both) has really shown me exactly what all news organizations are. Not trustworthy.


Agree with news organizations being untrustworthy, but ain't Olympia one of the nicer areas along the WA Coast? Thought the unrest we're seeing is in Seattle's and Portland's governmental districts, especially at night. 

Have the Feds there done a good job of quieting things down? Cause I've heard they got better ROE's than the Portland Police Department guys, due to them (the Feds) not being hamstrung by WA's political quislings.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 16, 2020)

Dallas on Saturday night.

Watch: BLM Mob Raids Texas Restaurant & Tries to Start a Riot | NewsRadio 740 KTRH | Michael Berry


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 16, 2020)

View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

Portland officer talking about the events.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dallas on Saturday night.
> 
> Watch: BLM Mob Raids Texas Restaurant & Tries to Start a Riot | NewsRadio 740 KTRH | Michael Berry



Heh, I live in Dallas and have not seen this on the news at all....figures.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 17, 2020)

Looks like SOP for agitators is having the National Lawyers Guild number sharpied onto their arm or body and giving them a call when they get booked.

Agitator mentions it in the last 30 seconds.
ANTIFA Tough Guy Spills The Beans On Who Is Backing And Bailing Them Out Of Jail

In this other video the woman and man yell "MLG will get you out", after a masked man gets nabbed.


Spoiler: YouTube Clip











The Chinese are even spreading misinformation and making it seem like we're doing what they're doing. Chicoms even added dramatic music to the clip.


Spoiler: Screenshot


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Wonder how the numbers are going to look. I would've assumed the Kung Flu lock down might've kept people indoors and outta trouble.


Indy is way ahead on homicides this year.  Last I heard they were at 118, compared to 80ish last year. During the lockdown it was business as usual in the hood. The PD limited response and contact made it appear as though overall crime was down but the dead bodies don’t lie.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The Chinese are even spreading misinformation and making it seem like we're doing what they're doing. Chicoms even added dramatic music to the clip.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshot
> ...



Seems to be de rigueur for totalitarian or authoritarian regimes to capitalize off of isolated incidents and engage in weapons grade whataboutism.  If I recall, the Soviets did the same thing in the late 1960s.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 18, 2020)

Feds 1
Hippie Marxists 24454


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 18, 2020)

So I guess the shitshow in Portlandia is getting stupid.  Federal agents have had to deploy and protect Federal Buildings, etc. Most of the media reports I'm seeing on this are trying to paint the government as aggressors in this.  Rather than putting blame on the Mayor and the Governor.  

Also, the outragey bullshit on twitter: OMG WHY ARE THEY IN CAMOUFLAGE!?!

(Well folks, it's because it's comfy)

Portland protests end Friday downtown in tandem force by federal, local police

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/17/portland-protests-federal-arrests/

Oregon will sue federal police agencies, open criminal investigation into use of force


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 18, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Indy is way ahead on homicides this year.  Last I heard they were at 118, compared to 80ish last year. During the lockdown it was business as usual in the hood. The PD limited response and contact made it appear as though overall crime was down but the dead bodies don’t lie.


Damn, I'm sorry dude. That must suck.

Based on the data, is there a way to correlate the murder rate in conjunction to the floyd event? I get business as usual being the norm in the hood, but I'm wondering how much the murder rate increased before, during, and after said event.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 18, 2020)

Bunch of fucking cunt SJW scoundrels.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Damn, I'm sorry dude. That must suck.
> 
> Based on the data, is there a way to correlate the murder rate in conjunction to the floyd event? I get business as usual being the norm in the hood, but I'm wondering how much the murder rate increased before, during, and after said event.


I’d have to look at the numbers post Floyd but I don’t think there was a spike after that shit show.

As for Portland and fed agents, well that city gets what it deserves. I won’t comment on who is there and why they’re there. It is fairly easy to figure out if you’ve watched some of the coverage.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jul 18, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> I’d have to look at the numbers post Floyd but I don’t think there was a spike after that shit show.
> 
> As for Portland and fed agents, well that city gets what it deserves. I won’t comment on who is there and why they’re there. It is fairly easy to figure out if you’ve watched some of the coverage.



Are they deployed under a federal law or laws ?
I don't know.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 18, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> I’d have to look at the numbers post Floyd but I don’t think there was a spike after that shit show.
> 
> As for Portland and fed agents, well that city gets what it deserves. I won’t comment on who is there and why they’re there. It is fairly easy to figure out if you’ve watched some of the coverage.


Sigh... yeah, it's been pretty demoralizing seeing how far to the wayside those cities and the leadership have strayed.  

Surprised that some of the other more 'notorious' coastal cities haven't been pooping off.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 18, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Are they deployed under a federal law or laws ?
> I don't know.



Oregon's DOJ filed suit today in Federal Court asking for an injunction for it to stop.  Basically their complaint goes against DHS as a whole, as well as specifically Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Marshals, and Federal Protective Services.  Protection of federal property would likely be the most plausible reason.  Allegedly some of it would be due to the Executive Order protecting statues as well.  Until we have a clearer picture I'm not entirely sure.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 18, 2020)

The feds are here because the rioters thrashed federal property, and continue to do so.

I am happy they are here, because it takes the catch and release local law "enforcement" (not talking about PPB, they're neutered due to the elected officials) out of the equation.

It'll also bring to nice light how much of this fuckery is happening due to non-local influences.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 18, 2020)

DHS is an umbrella of federal agencies...I have no issues with them protecting federal property...no insignia due to the multiple agencies, same when there was an no insignia group protecting the white house. Tell Portland to man up....if you can't protect property, don't complain when govt agencies try and protect their own property.


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 18, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> DHS is an umbrella of federal agencies...I have no issues with them protecting federal property...no insignia due to the multiple agencies, same when there was an no insignia group protecting the white house. Tell Portland to man up....if you can't protect property, don't complain when govt agencies try and protect their own property.



What do you mean no insignia?  Every phone can video and photo I've seen, for at least Portland, has the federal agents wearing DHS patches for both shoulders sleeve insignias.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 18, 2020)

That’s good, thought one of the issues was no one knew who they were.

nvm, it was protesters who were being bitches about it.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 19, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Are they deployed under a federal law or laws ?
> I don't know.



Federal law, at the AG’s request to protect federal property.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 19, 2020)

The Oregon Solicitor General seems to either be a buffoon with this bullshit lawsuit, but I suppose the Governor is also a buffoon.  I already know the Mayor was a complete idiot.  This is probably the place where the Insurrection Act needs to be invoked.

Portland Police Association Building Set On Fire, Riot Declared In Portland Saturday Night | KXL


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284885173906149376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284839559377846272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284735095748820992


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 19, 2020)

Seattle Riots are back: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285011374897127424


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 20, 2020)

Seriously, what. the. fuck?! As if any more evidence was need as to the mental instability of some of these people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285048709881843713


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 20, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Seriously, what. the. fuck?! As if any more evidence was need as to the mental instability of some of these people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285048709881843713



She looks hawt at least...lol


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> She looks hawt at least...lol


That's a man, man. 🤣


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

Video of chick walking up to the line.



Spoiler: NSFW for Boobs and Bush





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1284410621283328000



Different Subject-

The McCloskeys have been charged with Felonious Unlawful use of a weapon and the misdemeanor of fourth degree assault.

St. Louis couple charged for pulling guns at protest

Mike Parson, Governor of Missouri stated yesterday that if charged and convicted they would be pardoned immediately.

Missouri governor says pardon likely if St. Louis homeowners charged

ETA:

Missouri attorney general is entering the case and seeking a dismissal.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285350569977274369


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Video of chick walking up to the line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus, Thunder. LOL

that’s a lot more than sideboob!

1977 called, they want their beaver dam back.


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Jesus, Thunder. LOL
> 
> that’s a lot more than sideboob!
> 
> 1977 called, they want their beaver dam back.




Like licking a hair covered juicy fruit 🤔


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 20, 2020)

Free love, and all that crap...but, yes, would hit that.


----------



## AWP (Jul 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Different Subject-
> 
> The McCloskeys have been charged with Felonious Unlawful use of a weapon and the misdemeanor of fourth degree assault.
> 
> ...



Given their political and legal background, the delicious, delicious irony of being charged for doing what they did while the "protesters" go scott free.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Jesus, Thunder. LOL
> 
> that’s a lot more than sideboob!
> 
> 1977 called, they want their beaver dam back.



Whoops, I copied the link and closed it before. Damn. Edited the tag.



Kraut783 said:


> Free love, and all that crap...but, yes, would hit that.



A lot of Free shows have been happening during these protests.  Don't think it has the effect they're aiming for.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2020)

Skip to 10 sec mark. Federal guy on the ground was being beaten by a mob of rioters. Looks like they tried stripping him of gear before help showed up. For anyone wondering what these Marxist rioters plan to do to you, pay attention to those last few seconds. Mogadishu comes to mind.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285476672204988417


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Skip to 10 sec mark. Federal guy on the ground was being beaten by a mob of rioters. Looks like they tried stripping him of gear before help showed up. For anyone wondering what these Marxist rioters plan to do to you, pay attention to those last few seconds. Mogadishu comes to mind.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285476672204988417



Two of my sons work at a local grocery store.  I was at their store to pick them up and went in to get a couple things.  I was standing in line behind two folks, mid-20s, one said to the other "if I could get away killing a cop, I would."  WTH?  When did it become OK to be so emboldened to talk about premeditated murder to publicly?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285655679626285057
The man has a point.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2020)

Video showing how Marxist provocateurs are using these fake protests to stage attacks on our security apparatus.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285263026304675840


Devildoc said:


> Two of my sons work at a local grocery store.  I was at their store to pick them up and went in to get a couple things.  I was standing in line behind two folks, mid-20s, one said to the other "if I could get away killing a cop, I would."  WTH?  When did it become OK to be so emboldened to talk about premeditated murder to publicly?


Honestly, I'm not surprised. When you look at mainstream pop culture one can make educated guesses as to where this anti-authority mentality springs from. Also think these people/useful idiots have gotten used to their actions not having consequences, they've been emboldened by the quisling politicians and a complicit media giving them a free pass. Ain't gonna be pretty when the music stops for them.

One thing I can't really figure out is what the definitive end goal of these people is. Part of me is thinking this is a dry run for something worse or if they're trying to make martyrs of themselves. Also trying to figure out exactly how the pro-Marxist quislings in power are going to use this to gain/cement their power.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Video showing how Marxist provocateurs are using these fake protests to stage attacks on our security apparatus.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285263026304675840
> ...



Red Dawn? /s


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Red Dawn? /s


I dunno. Don't think I've ever sat down to watch that film in it's entirety. Saw the remake, but didn't see what the big fuss was about. Feel like I'm missing a piece of pop culture trivia here. Is it that the rioters think of themselves as a resistance movement of something? Or is it a similarity in quote on quote "tactics", used in the film vs real life?


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I dunno. Don't think I've ever sat down to watch that film in it's entirety. Saw the remake, but didn't see what the big fuss was about. Feel like I'm missing a piece of pop culture trivia here. Is it that the rioters think of themselves as a resistance movement of something? Or is it a similarity in quote on quote "tactics", used in the film vs real life?




First of all, you need to watch Red Dawn. It's a bona-fide cult classic.


----------



## DZ (Jul 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I dunno. Don't think I've ever sat down to watch that film in it's entirety. Saw the remake, but didn't see what the big fuss was about. Feel like I'm missing a piece of pop culture trivia here. Is it that the rioters think of themselves as a resistance movement of something? Or is it a similarity in quote on quote "tactics", used in the film vs real life?


You need to watch the original, not that piece of shit remake.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 21, 2020)

Less twitter more Red Dawn.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 21, 2020)

I feel for Superintendent Brown (CPD) he had issues as Dallas Chief but made the hard decisions during the DPD shootings in 2016...he made the decision to blow the fucker up with C4 and a EOD robot.

He has literary jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2020)

More proof this whole movement is a farce. Some BLM idiot kneeling on a blond toddlers neck for social media likes is another symptom of this madness.
Sheriff’s office investigating social media photo showing man kneeling on child’s neck


Spoiler: Image







Another similar incident: Genoa City woman charged with kneeling on child’s neck, mentioning George Floyd


DZ said:


> You need to watch the original, not that piece of shit remake.


I'll look into it. Guys in the platoon did a screening of it, but it didn't catch my fancy. I grew up near one of the counties where Red Dawn was filmed, though that was a decade after.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> whole movement



Yea, I'm so glad one idiot is indicative of a whole movement.

Guess all conservatives=white supremacists then because of Richard Spencer then. /sarcasm


----------



## AWP (Jul 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I dunno. Don't think I've ever sat down to watch that film in it's entirety.



Dafuq is wrong with you?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 22, 2020)

AWP said:


> Dafuq is wrong with you?


Nothing...? I mean I get the pop cultural reference and I've seen snippets, but it's not a big deal for me. If anything, I'd be happy if the actual commies and Marxists, murdering folks and burning the country down, were treated like the enemies in the clips and snippets of the movie.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jul 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Nothing...? I mean I get the pop cultural reference and I've seen snippets, but it's not a big deal for me. If anything, I'd be happy if the actual commies and Marxists, murdering folks and burning the country down, were treated like the enemies in the clips and snippets of the movie.


Why don’t you just stop posting and go watch the damn movie?


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 22, 2020)

I don't watch movies older than I am...


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 22, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I don't watch movies older than I am...



You're missing out on so much awesomeness!


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 22, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I don't watch movies older than I am...


This is why the country has gone to shit.... 😊


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 22, 2020)

For some seriousness.  I don't think this was shared on this forum.  But CBP seized an arms shipment from China.  This isn't the first one, but this is most recent one.  Relevant because agitators are out in force.

10,800 Assault Weapons Parts Seized by CBP in Louisville | U.S. Customs and Border Protection


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For some seriousness.  I don't think this was shared on this forum.  But CBP seized an arms shipment from China.  This isn't the first one, but this is most recent one.  Relevant because agitators are out in force.
> 
> 10,800 Assault Weapons Parts Seized by CBP in Louisville | U.S. Customs and Border Protection


Any word on what parts they're bringing in? Couldn't really tell what was in the bags. Only thing I can think of is auto sears or fire control groups.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 22, 2020)

Ah yes, the continuation of the cancel everything movement.  Now we must cancel John Muir. 

Sierra Club calls out the racism of John Muir


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 22, 2020)

When does Margaret Sanger get the boot...?


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> When does Margaret Sanger get the boot...?



In Manhattan, now is as good a time as any. Someone still had the nerve to say she’s not racist, though. “Historians argue that Sanger wasn’t racist.” HAHAHAHA!!!!


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 22, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> “Historians argue that Sanger wasn’t racist.” HAHAHAHA!!!!


And of course, the poster/t-shirt boy Che needs some deconstructive love, too....


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For some seriousness.  I don't think this was shared on this forum.  But CBP seized an arms shipment from China.  This isn't the first one, but this is most recent one.  Relevant because agitators are out in force.
> 
> 10,800 Assault Weapons Parts Seized by CBP in Louisville | U.S. Customs and Border Protection


Wouldn’t be the first time it happened.  IIRC Norinco got in some hot water a few decades ago for attempting to ship actual FA AK-47s into the port of Los Angeles.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 22, 2020)

Chinese company got nailed trying to ship silencers in as fuel filters.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 22, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Chinese company got nailed trying to ship silencers in as fuel filters.


I’ve seen the ads on FB before. I couldn’t help but laugh. I figured even clicking through to read the details would land me on yet another watch list.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 22, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Chinese company got nailed trying to ship silencers in as fuel filters.



CBP here in Dallas have intercepted silencers from China listed as something else, looking at them, they are silencers with baffles, just have to be drilled on each end.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 22, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’ve seen the ads on FB before. I couldn’t help but laugh. I figured even clicking through to read the details would land me on yet another watch list.



Correct.  Feds took the website over and posted a message telling folks to turn them in.



Kraut783 said:


> CBP here in Dallas have intercepted silencers from China listed as something else, looking at them, they are silencers with baffles, just have to be drilled on each end.



Another Chinese company was selling trigger kits for Glocks via Amazon.  A couple of unlucky purchasors got to meet the not so friendly ATF Agent.

Mexico use to (and probably still does) intercept whole shiploads of AK's and other weaponry from China, which is why I laugh at the 85% of the weapons come from the US claim.


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 22, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> You're missing out on so much awesomeness!



It's okay, I saw the remake. WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 22, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> It's okay, I saw the remake. WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously man.  

Similar to Thrones season 8, Godfather 3, and Indiana Jones 4, pretend like the remake never happened and watch the Patrick Swayze version.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 23, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> CBP here in Dallas have intercepted silencers from China listed as something else, looking at them, they are silencers with baffles, just have to be drilled on each end.



Yeah, there's been a rash of solvent traps on Facebook ads recently too. I'm sure an aluminum 7.7mm center aperture solvent trap with aluminum outer housing and unmachined ends will last extremely long after bubba hogs them out with a tap and die from harbor freight.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 23, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Wouldn’t be the first time it happened.  IIRC Norinco got in some hot water a few decades ago for attempting to ship actual FA AK-47s into the port of Los Angeles.





DA SWO said:


> Chinese company got nailed trying to ship silencers in as fuel filters.





DA SWO said:


> Correct.  Feds took the website over and posted a message telling folks to turn them in.
> 
> Another Chinese company was selling trigger kits for Glocks via Amazon.  A couple of unlucky purchasors got to meet the not so friendly ATF Agent.
> 
> Mexico use to (and probably still does) intercept whole shiploads of AK's and other weaponry from China, which is why I laugh at the 85% of the weapons come from the US claim.




If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.....

It's not _OUR_ fault the American dream lives on in other people....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 23, 2020)

So I've got problems with how the Michigan Open carry protestors were portrayed by the media, and even disagreed with some other forum members on that as well.  Yes, a couple hundred Michiganders open carried on the Capital grounds to protest for their rights and their ability to earn a wage.  That group was cosmopolitan.  But the media took pictures of and distributed ones of when the white ones were screaming in the face of cops.  Which is annoying. 

Now, let's get to the Portland Riots, assholes on twatter and in the media continue to bring up the open carry protestors to justify this behavior.  Well you know what?  Those Michiganders were PEACEFUL.  They PEACEFULLY ASSEMBLED.  These assholes?  This is not peaceful assembly.  They're doing their level best to firebomb federal and governmental buildings. 

Oh and that idiot mayor of Portland joined the "protests" too.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286189845853818882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286208669416214528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286232556665356289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286210079352479744
If this is not an insurrection, what must be done next? The Mayor and the Governor seem to be welcoming it.

Different Subject, So the McCloskey's handgun was inop when seized and the Circuit Attorney ordered it reassembled so that it could be operable? (Tampering?)

Report: Patricia McCloskey's handgun inoperable when seized by police


----------



## medicchick (Jul 24, 2020)

Play stupid games...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286218168566857730
They are also freaking out about the P3 flying around. It's great!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 24, 2020)

Oregon loses injunction against the Federal Government. 

Oregon AG Loses Fight to Restrain Trump’s Policing Portland (2)

'Ol 11th Amendment!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 24, 2020)

Oh for fuck's sake....

Twins Home Opener To Honor George Floyd With Memorial Graphic, Moment Of Silence


----------



## Rapid (Jul 25, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286627065484070912


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 25, 2020)

Portland:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286927196599144449
New York:
‘I just started to feel punches all over’: Dad and daughter afraid to leave home after caught-on-camera mob beatdown in NYC bodega

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286809268797288448
Atlanta:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ral-photo-no-longer-employed-school-district/


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 25, 2020)

Rapid said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286627065484070912


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

Armed protesters in Louisville continuing to shoot other protesters.  This is like the fourth or fifth incident in Louisville proper I believe.

Louisville protests descend into chaos when armed protester accidentally shoots members of his group, injuring 3

ETA- Why the NYT is a failure of a new organization:

A ‘Wall of Vets’ Joins the Front Lines of Portland Protests

Talking about the wall of vets is cute.  But not a single moment have they touched on the violence of the riots.


----------



## LimaPanther (Jul 25, 2020)

And on the East side of the US.

3 members of armed militia shot at Breonna Taylor protest


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

@Ooh-Rah  keep the head down bro!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287180846173126656


----------



## 757 (Jul 26, 2020)




----------



## The Quartermaster (Jul 26, 2020)

I may be wrong here, but I do believe that's an AK that fired first, and the smaller pops are the driver's EDC. Is my assessment incorrect, anyone?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 26, 2020)

The Quartermaster said:


> I may be wrong here, but I do believe that's an AK that fired first, and the smaller pops are the driver's EDC. Is my assessment incorrect, anyone?



Definitely rifle first, then pistol second.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 26, 2020)

The Quartermaster said:


> I may be wrong here, but I do believe that's an AK that fired first, and the smaller pops are the driver's EDC. Is my assessment incorrect, anyone?


Loud boom, then 5 shots, followed by 3 "lighter sounding" shots.

He was quoted earlier saying people who disagreed with them are pussies who won't stand up to them (I paraphrased his quote).

He is an example of accuracy trumps caliber, he's also DRT.


----------



## The Quartermaster (Jul 26, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Loud boom, then 5 shots, followed by 3 "lighter sounding" shots.
> 
> He was quoted earlier saying people who disagreed with them are pussies who won't stand up to them (I paraphrased his quote).
> 
> He is an example of accuracy trumps caliber, he's also DRT.


The media is making it out that he was the good guy, complete with pictures of his black amputee sweetie. The Daily Fail is showing them both, and he served apparently.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 26, 2020)

Funny how everyone's against the cops, up until when they need the cops.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 27, 2020)

Lemme just frizbee this shit from the backfield towards the 5 yard line...

Black Portlander Changes His Mind About the Nightly Protests After He Attends One

Yupppp.  What have I been saying regarding police impounds lately?

Best part, tow companies have a sorta pact going where they don't accept anything but in-person credit cards/funds... which means these fuckos don't get to use the celebrity support bail funds and shit, since they can't provide funds in person. Nothing over the phone, sorry!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

Chief Best's letter to the City Council Regarding the tying of her hands in regards to crowd control: Letter to City Council Regarding Council Ordinance 119805 – Crowd Control Tools

This probably also goes in the defunding police thread but it needs to go in here too.

Chief Best is sending a letter to Residents and Business stating that under the new ordinance she cannot protect their homes or businesses. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286902138996572160

I thought this was cute, in a sadistic way.   Bending the knee to the mob just means you get walked on.

Radio host mocked Trump by claiming Seattle is peaceful, then rioters torched his apartment building


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

The Seattle City Council aims to cut SPD's budget by 25%.  A specific council woman targeted the Patrol branch of SPD in her listed out items and would effectively eliminate Patrol.  

Chief’s Letter to City Council in Response to Decriminalize Seattle/King County Equity Now Proposals


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Chief Best's letter to the City Council Regarding the tying of her hands in regards to crowd control: Letter to City Council Regarding Council Ordinance 119805 – Crowd Control Tools
> 
> This probably also goes in the defunding police thread but it needs to go in here too.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure the city council is adding fuel to the fire. Those commie fucks are doing everything they can to aid the rioters. When I find it again I'll post it, but in Portland the transportation authority wants to get rid of the barricades protecting the fed courthouse.

Commies are starting their insurrection and it's pretty obvious to see where their spheres of influence are.



Spoiler: Letter


----------



## Marine0311 (Jul 27, 2020)

It's spreading 

Crowds launch fireworks at brewery, draw guns on drivers as riots spread from Portland to smaller Oregon city

One notable incident is when a driver and a bad actor pulled guns on each other


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Seattle City Council aims to cut SPD's budget by 25%.  A specific council woman targeted the Patrol branch of SPD in her listed out items and would effectively eliminate Patrol.
> 
> Chief’s Letter to City Council in Response to Decriminalize Seattle/King County Equity Now Proposals


Does Patrol include Traffic Enforcement?


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 27, 2020)

Madison police union issues vote of no confidence in Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway

Took them long enough. This was over-do from the Officers I know and have talked to in person.

There is also an active attempt to recall the Mayor, but I worry who we would get next.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 27, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Does Patrol include Traffic Enforcement?



Traffic is usually it's own unit, separate from Patrol...even in medium size cities.


----------



## Totentanz (Jul 27, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Loud boom, then 5 shots, followed by 3 "lighter sounding" shots.
> 
> He was quoted earlier saying people who disagreed with them are pussies who won't stand up to them (I paraphrased his quote).
> 
> He is an example of accuracy trumps caliber, he's also DRT.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Does Patrol include Traffic Enforcement?


Basing this off the Website, Patrol seems to be a separate division from Traffice.  

Department Fact Sheet - Police | seattle.gov

SPD has 1440 Sworn officers, 755 of them are assigned to Patrol, Councilmember Sawant wants cuts that equals a cut of 681 officers specifically from Patrol.  Effectively halving the size of the department.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

Way to set the example, boys:






A telling response:

'Wall of Vets' joins protests in Portland


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286884473934503936


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Way to set the example, boys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because having a productive conversation during a riot is an expectation for federal law enforcement in riot gear... I'm guessing he was expecting a "thank you for your service" with all the vet swag


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Way to set the example, boys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean the same "wall of vets" that turned into a wall of vet bomb throwers? Hard Pass. They may be vets, they may be moms, they may be dads, but those protests every night have led to fire bombs being thrown at Federal property and others.

From last night for your viewing pleasure:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287692504167415808
It appears Joe Scarborough has finally woken up:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287681755705749506


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Because having a productive conversation during a riot is an expectation for federal law enforcement in riot gear... I'm guessing he was expecting a "thank you for your service" with all the vet swag


Standing peacefully in front of federal officers with your hands down in a public space and speaking to them does not merit the disproportionately 'stupid prize' of being swung at full force repeatedly with a baton.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Standing peacefully in front of federal officers with your hands down in a public space and speaking to them does not merit the disproportionately 'stupid prize' of being swung at full force repeatedly with a baton.


No, but when given a lawful order to disperse, particularly in the midst of a riot, and you instead choose to stand your ground, you can and should expect to be forcefully motivated to reconsider.  Case in point.  He knew what he was doing.  Now, he reaps the consequences.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You mean the same "wall of vets" that turned into a wall of vet bomb throwers?


Unless your idea of a wall is a scrawny lone fence-climber who by a stroke of luck turns out to be a vet, not a single one of your links supports your claim that the 'wall of vets' 'became' 'the bomb throwers'.  

Your envisioned scene would still make for a interesting movie trailer, though.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

It's pretty simple, the rioters in Portland have been the aggressors.  The footage is out there.  The narrative that the left wing media that is pushing that they're peaceful is completely untrue.  If you want to know what's going on, you need to follow Andy Ngo, he's sharing stuff in real time.  Every day the fences are repaired around the court house.  The officers don't sally forth from the court house unless the barriers are yanked down, which of course happens every night.  

Their intent is clear, they want Federal Law Enforcement to mow them down, although under direct threat, the task force has not once employed lethal force.  

If you don't care, then cool. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287694089295548416


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> No, but when given a lawful order to disperse, particularly in the midst of a riot, and you instead choose to stand your ground, you can and should expect to be forcefully motivated to reconsider.  Case in point.  He knew what he was doing.  Now, he reaps the consequences.


Consequences that do not justify a lack of nuance in interpreting the results and certainly did not merit responding with the degree of disproportionality exhibited by the recklessly full-forced multiple swings of the baton-wielding officer - and doubly so when in possession of far more effective non-lethal substances like the pepper spray that was finally used.

They, too, reap their own consequences in the court of public opinion.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Unless your idea of a wall is a scrawny lone fence-climber who by a stroke of luck turns out to be a vet, not a single one of your links supports your claim that the 'wall of vets' 'became' 'the bomb throwers'.
> 
> Your envisioned scene would still make for a interesting movie trailer, though.


Are you purposely trying to piss folks off?


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's pretty simple, the rioters in Portland have been the aggressors.  The footage is out there.  The narrative that the left wing media that is pushing that they're peaceful is completely untrue.  If you want to know what's going on, you need to follow Andy Ngo, he's sharing stuff in real time.  Every day the fences are repaired around the court house.  The officers don't sally forth from the court house unless the barriers are yanked down, which of course happens every night.
> 
> Their intent is clear, they want Federal Law Enforcement to mow them down, although under direct threat, the task force has not once employed lethal force.
> 
> If you don't care, then cool.


So you're saying _*don't *_have anything to support your 'wall of vets' into 'wall of bomb throwers' claim from your first post?

Got it.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 27, 2020)

The anarchist moths are drawn to the flame of the US Courthouse/property where they can get into confrontations with DHS LEO's. Anyone who goes there to demonstrate are there for a confrontation, not to peacefully protest.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Are you purposely trying to piss folks off?


How, for challenging him to support his wildly hyperbolic and wholly unsupported claim with the kind of factual basis and linked evidence that the moderators only months before requested for everyone to provide whenever they made bold assertions?


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> How, for challenging him to support his wildly hyperbolic and wholly unsupported claim with the kind of factual basis and linked evidence that the moderators only months before requested for everyone to provide whenever they made bold assertions?


Providing you with the name of someone who posts real time updates on Twitter (garbage pit that it is) is hardly hyperbolic.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Providing you with the name of someone who posts real time updates on Twitter (garbage pit that it is) is hardly hyperbolic.


That isn't at all the claim that is being addressed.


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Consequences that do not justify a lack of nuance in interpreting the results and certainly did not merit responding with the degree of disproportionality exhibited by the recklessly full-forced multiple swings of the baton-wielding officer - and doubly so when in possession of far more effective non-lethal substances like the pepper spray that was finally used.
> 
> They, too, reap their own consequences in the court of public opinion.



Do you see some kindred spirit with this guy or something, or see him as some champion of the righteous?  He's partaking in an event that escalated to a riot and expecting to have a thought provoking conversation with guys in riot gear. The guy is wrong on every level.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 27, 2020)

@Locksteady - 

It seems like you are catching some flack and by the tone of some of these responses, maybe pushing some buttons?
Go forth and prosper, but understand who your audience is too.

That's all....for now.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Do you see some kindred spirit with this guy or something, or see him as some champion of the righteous?  He's partaking in an event that escalated to a riot and expecting to have a thought provoking conversation with guys in riot gear. The guy is wrong on every level.


My views on him or what he did in that context wouldn't change the fact of the abject disproportionality of their response.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @Locksteady -
> 
> It seems like you are catching some flack and by the tone of some of these responses, maybe pushing some buttons?
> Go forth and prosper, but understand who your audience is too.
> ...


Heard loud and clear.  Stepping away for now.


----------



## medicchick (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Standing peacefully in front of federal officers with your hands down in a public space and speaking to them does not merit the disproportionately 'stupid prize' of being swung at full force repeatedly with a baton.


Refusing to leave, being dumb enough to think that on night 5x of riots you can talk to those that deal with this shit night after night, not going through proper channels to talk with those who CAN/are authorized to have a discussion with the public... he's looking for a photo op and got more. Time and place, time and place.

Night after night I deal with this shit at work. The peaceful protestors leave when it starts getting dark, they want nothing to do with this shit and have even tried to help the local businesses clean up.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Heard loud and clear.  Stepping away for now.


If he is going to chill for a minute, let's everyone else please do the same so he does not feel the need to defend himself.


----------



## medicchick (Jul 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If he is going to chill for a minute, let's everyone else please do the same so he does not feel the need to defend himself.


Sorry I was in the process of typing on my phone, saw this after I posted.


----------



## AWP (Jul 28, 2020)

Not to dogpile, but to reiterate an earlier point. If y'all are going to broad, potentially incendiary comments, new information, now topics or thread drift...please cite your sources or expect to be checked by other members and/ or the staff. Give us a link, a Twitter post..something.

Y'all are doing a lot better and I thank you for that.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 28, 2020)

Lol, according to Nadler the Antifa protests are a, "myth that's being spread only in Washington DC".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287538621445296128


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

The driver didn't say he was shot at, the cops say the driver shot first, you can hear the shots in the video prior to the car speeding away, at which point you can hear the third party shooting at it.

Where the hell did y'all get the idea Foster shot at this dude five times and missed?

Right now everything looks like the driver sped into a crowd of people, got spooked, and shot the first dude he saw with a gun.

What we know so far about the investigation into the deadly shooting at an Austin protest


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 28, 2020)

^^Just saw that on Fox, everyone can see so much damn footage on TV or YouTube it's pointless to try to speak otherwise... unless you're deflecting because you want mayhem to continue.

Wait until a LEO or FLEO gets killed with a brick or burned or something. You'll see the same clowns on TV blaming Trump for trying to restore order...


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Right now everything looks like * the driver sped into a crowd* of people, got spooked, and shot the first dude he saw with a gun.
> 
> What we know so far about the investigation into the deadly shooting at an Austin protest


Similar to your observation, where the hell are people getting the idea he sped into a crowd?  I don't know what people consider "speeding into a crowd" but there is absolutely no video evidence I've seen to support that narrative even a little bit.

The driver was mostly stopped then slowly attempted to make a right hand turn (possibly honked at people, unknown if that was his horn but assuming it probably was) before again yielding.

Always two versions of a story.  Truth is usually somewhere in the middle.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The driver didn't say he was shot at, the cops say the driver shot first, you can hear the shots in the video prior to the car speeding away, at which point you can hear the third party shooting at it.
> 
> Where the hell did y'all get the idea Foster shot at this dude five times and missed?
> 
> ...


Angry white guy with an AK approaches a car and may or may not have pointed the AK at the car. Magazine was in the weapon ( which may be illegal in TX). How many drivers have been shot/ shot at?
Do you wait for him to shoot? or defend yourself by shooting first?
Blocking traffic isn't necessarily legal.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2020)

I know the cops brought the two guys from the car in, interviewed them, and let them go (keeping the car and gun for evidence.  Not for nothing, the driver and occupant apparently had a permit for concealed carry (facts not germane to the case, I know, still interesting trivia).  If they were in the car and a guy with an AK pointed said AK at them, they had reasonable cause.

As for the whole vet thing at the riot, my momma always said "you are judged by the company you keep."  Whether or not he had the right to be there, by being there he showed a remarkable lack of SA.  He can plead "din do nuffin" to the judge and justice will prevail.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Similar to your observation, where the hell are people getting the idea he sped into a crowd?  I don't know what people consider "speeding into a crowd" but there is absolutely no video evidence I've seen to support that narrative even a little bit.
> 
> The driver was mostly stopped then slowly attempted to make a right hand turn (possibly honked at people, unknown if that was his horn but assuming it probably was) before again yielding.
> 
> Always two versions of a story.  Truth is usually somewhere in the middle.



Check the video in the link I shared; there's the footage of a car that turns straight into the crowd while blaring on its horn. My understanding is that was the car involved in the incident.

I could be completely wrong and that isn't the vehicle in question, but I haven't seen anything to the contrary.


DA SWO said:


> Angry white guy with an AK approaches a car and may or may not have pointed the AK at the car. Magazine was in the weapon ( which may be illegal in TX). How many drivers have been shot/ shot at?
> Do you wait for him to shoot? or defend yourself by shooting first?
> Blocking traffic isn't necessarily legal.



I'm not trying to imply that the driver was in the wrong, but this situation doesn't seem as clear cut as some posts on this board try to make it seem. Foster didn't have to actually fire his weapon to be a legitimate threat, and we have no need to push that narrative here if the facts (as they stand now) don't support that. 

Foster still violated one of the most inportant rules of having a firearm; don't point it at someone unless you intend to pull the trigger. 

The driver understood that rule and acted appropriately.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Check the video in the link I shared; there's the footage of a car that turns straight into the crowd while blaring on its horn. My understanding is that was the car involved in the incident.
> 
> I could be completely wrong and that isn't the vehicle in question, but I haven't seen anything to the contrary.


Saw the video and agree it's the car. That's not the issue. As I stated previously, to suggest it "sped" into the crowd is a gross mischaracterization of what that video shows.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 28, 2020)

It looks like the car sped through an opening in the the foot traffic before honking and slowing down to a stop when the crowds blocked its passage.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 28, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> It looks like the car sped through an opening in the the foot traffic before honking and slowing down to a stop when the crowds blocked its passage.


What do you defining as speeding through the crowd? Any movement at all?! Because it wasn't much more than that. I'm no expert on vehicle speed but judging by the pace of those walking nearby, he was maybe doing 5+ or so mph; not notably different from the car with the dashcam. Is that speeding into a crowd?! He stopped, then made a right hand turn and came to a stop almost immediately when rounding the corner before being swarmed by the crowd that was unlawfully marching in the street.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> What do you defining as speeding through the crowd?


Either he was stopped as you said and accelerated in order to move through the opening, or he wasn't stopped and coasted through the opening before slowing down to stop after the crowd blocked.

Since this doesn't seem clear, I'd say he'cut' through the opening.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 28, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Either he was stopped as you said and accelerated in order to move through the opening, or he wasn't stopped and coasted through the opening before slowing down to stop after the crowd blocked.
> 
> Since this doesn't seem clear, I'd say he'cut' through the opening.


Either way, do you define that as "speeding into an crowd"?

I don't.  To suggest that, as it has been here and in other places numerous times, based on the video we've seen is a gross mischaracterization.  Period.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Either way, do you define that as "speeding into an crowd"?


No.

I think you may be confusing what I wrote with @Cookie_'s  post.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 28, 2020)

It's pretty long to get through, but pay attention to the photos.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's pretty long to get through, but pay attention to the photos.



I see Shaun King, so I'm sure this is gonna be ridiculous. Can I get a "important points" breakdown of this?

My service currently is to slow to run video without buffering every 5 seconds.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 28, 2020)

Still shots from another video show a rifle being pointed at the car.
Gunman 1 s/b good.
Gunman2, may have some explaining to do.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Still shots from another video show a rifle being pointed at the car.
> Gunman 1 s/b good.
> Gunman2, may have some explaining to do.



Gunman 2 as in the person who fired back at the car?

That is an interesting scenario.

If person A was justifiably shot by person B, but person C did not witness/is otherwise unaware of that justification, is person C in the wrong (legally) for firing back at person B?


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Gunman 2 as in the person who fired back at the car?
> *Yes*
> That is an interesting scenario.
> 
> ...


Replied in quote.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 28, 2020)

Can’t remember if it was from the Statesman or a local station, but I initially read that the first loud “bang” that you hear was the vehicle hitting an orange construction barrel. I think it was the local Fox affiliate, but I can’t find it. Instead, here’s a separate article from The Insider that corroborates the driver of the car hitting an orange barrel. 

Those things were everywhere in Austin 20yrs ago; I see not much has changed about the state capital.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 29, 2020)

They misspelled marxist rioters.

U.S. sending more federal officers to Portland protests: report


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 29, 2020)

You all are doing well. Keep doing such.

We all know it can go south quickly. You're winning.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 29, 2020)

Thought this was interesting. Grandma outing the kid is probably false, but still.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> They misspelled marxist rioters.
> 
> U.S. sending more federal officers to Portland protests: report



According to the Governor, the violence Portland had for the 6 weeks before the Government hardened the court house and reinforced the locally assigned detachment was brought by the Federal Task Force.  Again, all the POTUS fault and not hers.  


Normally, in my line of work when you reach a deal, you're supposed to be amicable once it is concluded.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288497309848702977
The Antifa based violence is not the fault of the Federal Government, it is the fault of her and the Mayor of Portland not doing their damn jobs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288501951559327745


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 29, 2020)

Well I don't see any problems with this.  LOL

City of Cambridge replaces cops with unarmed city officials for traffic stops—what could go wrong?


----------



## 757 (Jul 29, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288497192962056193
Smart move by DHS.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 29, 2020)

SPOG President on Fox:


----------



## Dame (Jul 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Well I don't see any problems with this.  LOL
> City of Cambridge replaces cops with unarmed city officials for traffic stops—what could go wrong?


Just holy shit! From the article:


> This legislation was also sponsored by Councilor Quinton Zondervan. Zondervan said that in the event that an unlicensed driver has additional reasons for arrest, such as outstanding warrants, the individual should still be arrested. It is unclear how an unarmed city employee would go about arrested an individual who has an invalid license and a stack of warrants.



ETA: I think the city council should be the first to try out this new gig.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 29, 2020)

Buddy of mine is retiring on the 31st....get together tomorrow. He has been with our department for 31 years....I wish I was at that point...but he is going out at a good time.

Sux....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

Portland and Oregon State Police finally empowered by their elected officials to do their job.  

Portland police clear downtown parks early Thursday morning, ahead of possible departure of federal agents


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

Update in the McCloskey case...this circuit attorney is a piece of work. 

St. Louis prosecutor used McCloskey case in campaign literature and should be dismissed, according to new motion

St. Louis Circuit attorney prosecuting McCloskeys failed to report trips paid for by activist groups: Report


----------



## Dame (Jul 30, 2020)

The Seattle police are trying to get the city council to see reason before the August 3rd meeting. They realize the council will only bow to public pressure of the social media kind so they've started an online petition and hope to obtain 100,000 signatures before the meeting.
I hope it works.
Stop the Defunding of the Seattle Police Department


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Update in the McCloskey case...this circuit attorney is a piece of work.
> 
> St. Louis prosecutor used McCloskey case in campaign literature and should be dismissed, according to new motion
> 
> St. Louis Circuit attorney prosecuting McCloskeys failed to report trips paid for by activist groups: Report


Barr needs to get off his fat ass and hit her with a civil rights investigation.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> According to the Governor, the violence Portland had for the 6 weeks before the Government hardened the court house and reinforced the locally assigned detachment was brought by the Federal Task Force.  Again, all the POTUS fault and not hers.
> 
> 
> Normally, in my line of work when you reach a deal, you're supposed to be amicable once it is concluded.
> ...


Well... it's not like one can't expect much from a figurative commie. Deflect, deny, and counter accuse, is pretty much all they have going for them.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 31, 2020)

So this wasn't posted previously, but it shows specific tactics of the rioters using "BLM" protests as cover.   This was Chicago about two weeks ago.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 1, 2020)

I...I do not even know where to begin...

Minneapolis police say to obey criminals and 'be prepared' to be robbed


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 1, 2020)

Well, I can tell you that Portland PD and Oregon State Police are already not able to uphold their end of the negotiated deal to protect Federal property.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289629792979935234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289479016852856835
WATCH: Activist Tries To Shoot Firework At Court, It Shoots Sparks In His Face


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I...I do not even know where to begin...
> 
> Minneapolis police say to obey criminals and 'be prepared' to be robbed


My preferred message from a police department with balls would have been instructions to citizens on how to buy a firearm, and then state not to expect aid from Law Enforcement. 

*Dislike the how they're relaying the message and shituation.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I...I do not even know where to begin...
> 
> Minneapolis police say to obey criminals and 'be prepared' to be robbed


When is the Mayor up for re-election?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 1, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> When is the Mayor up for re-election?


Not soon enough. 2 years.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, I can tell you that Portland PD and Oregon State Police are already not *able* to uphold their end of the negotiated deal to protect Federal property.


If Andy's words are accurate, lack of ability isn't causing this one, which in its own way may be even worse.


----------



## AWP (Aug 2, 2020)

So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Polar Bear (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.


Italy


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.



I'm thinking something in an island, Caribbean or south Pacific....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 2, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If Andy's words are accurate, lack of ability isn't causing this one, which in its own way may be even worse.


Oh I'm not specifically talking about their actual ability vs the political creatures that run the state not having a spine.

Looks like Portland PD was at least allowed to defend itself last night.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289795851729027073


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.



Florida.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.



Definitely not the former Nation State of Canuckistan.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.


Island in the carib, I hear one is for sale.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 2, 2020)

And now for prisons. 

Emancipation Day march in downtown Toronto calls for abolition of prison system


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 2, 2020)

Someone should ask them where all the Arian Brotherhood prisoners go.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 2, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Someone should ask them where all the Arian Brotherhood prisoners go.



They would probably just advocate for killing them.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 2, 2020)

Oh. Makes sense.


----------



## Dame (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> So what's the best country to move to if you're an American? Asking for a friend.


Serious answer: Belize.

ETA: Southwest even flies there.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 2, 2020)

Dame said:


> Serious answer: Belize.
> 
> ETA: Southwest even flies there.



Had to look at Belize, I was surprised.

"You don’t need a visa to visit Belize as a vacationer, but if you want to move to Belize, the government offers a number of incentives. The Qualified Retirement Program (QRP) allows eligible individuals age 45 and older and their families to move to Belize if they have a stable yearly income of $24,000 or more."

" According to Investopia, the average couple can live quite well in Belize for around $1,200 a month."

What Does It Cost to Retire in Belize?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 2, 2020)

Belize is a beautiful place.


----------



## Dame (Aug 2, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Had to look at Belize, I was surprised.
> 
> "You don’t need a visa to visit Belize as a vacationer, but if you want to move to Belize, the government offers a number of incentives. The Qualified Retirement Program (QRP) allows eligible individuals age 45 and older and their families to move to Belize if they have a stable yearly income of $24,000 or more."
> 
> ...


AND...

The main language is English.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 2, 2020)

But, don't plan on bringing any firearms. That's a no-go for private parties unless you run s farm, and then still restrictive. I can pull the laws if anyone wants.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 2, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Had to look at Belize, I was surprised.
> 
> "You don’t need a visa to visit Belize as a vacationer, but if you want to move to Belize, the government offers a number of incentives. The Qualified Retirement Program (QRP) allows eligible individuals age 45 and older and their families to move to Belize if they have a stable yearly income of $24,000 or more."
> 
> ...



I have a couple of friends that have retired there or are in the process.  When the kid's are old enough, we're selling everything and moving there.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 2, 2020)

Our Immigration guys have had a massive uptake in enquiries from Americans. 

No thanks, stay home and deal with your own mess.


----------



## AWP (Aug 2, 2020)

SEALs gonna' SEAL... Yeah, it is the museum, but considering the number of SEALs involved in running the museum...yikes.

Navy SEAL Museum used Colin Kaepernick jersey as prop in K-9 demonstration last year, video shows



> The Navy SEAL Museum, just outside Fort Pierce, Fla., used a Colin Kaepernick jersey as a prop in a K-9 demonstration at a fundraiser last year, video shows.



ETA to add the quote.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> SEALs gonna' SEAL... Yeah, it is the museum, but considering the number of SEALs involved in running the museum...yikes.
> 
> Navy SEAL Museum used Colin Kaepernick jersey as prop in K-9 demonstration last year, video shows
> 
> The Navy SEAL Museum, just outside Fort Pierce, Fla., used a Colin Kaepernick jersey as a prop in a K-9 demonstration at a fundraiser last year, video shows.


NSW's response is pathetic too.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 2, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> NSW's response is pathetic too.


It makes perfect sense for an apolitical military organization to distinguish themselves from any group bearing their own namesake that carries out inappropriate and politically loaded performative gestures like this one.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 3, 2020)

Looks like the BLM useful idiots are extorting local businesses. Either the businesses pay up or the BLM causes trouble for them. Sound familiar anyone? The useful idiots "demands" are posted in the spoiler section.

Louisville Black Lives Matter Using 'Mafia Tactics' on Hispanic Business Owners


Spoiler: Story



The Louisville cadre of Black Lives Matter activists sent a letter to many downtown businesses demanding they “diversify” their employees. But at least one Cuban-American business owner objected to the threatening tone of the letter and posted his displeasure on Facebook.

Fernando Martinez owns a restaurant group with several Hispanic eateries. He accused BLM of using “mafia tactics” and explained his position.


> “There comes a time in life that you have to make a stand and you have to really prove your convictions and what you believe in,” Martinez wrote in a public Facebook post. “… All good people need to denounce this. How can you justified (sic) injustice with more injustice?”



The response by Black Lives Matter was immediate. Several members stood outside one of the business owner’s establishments demonstrating their displeasure and confronting Martinez when he came outside to talk to them.


> “If you and I can sit down as human beings that we are without screaming at each other, without calling each other names, without offending each other, we can come to an understanding,” Martinez told one protester after explaining that he felt threatened by the way the demands were delivered to his business. “… How is destroying our business going to bring any justice?”



Not surprisingly, some of the business owners who were recipients of the BLM letter are caving to the pressure. The “demands” include “employ more Black people, purchase more inventory from Black retailers and undergo diversity training” according to the _Louisville Courier-Journal._

Adequately represent the Black population of Louisville by having a minimum of 23% Black staff;
Purchase a minimum of 23% inventory from Black retailers or make a recurring monthly donation of 1.5% of net sales to a local Black nonprofit or organization;
Require diversity and inclusion training for all staff members on a bi-annual basis;
And display a visible sign that increases awareness and shows support for the reparations movement.

The protesters claim the business owners benefitted by the “gentrification” of the neighborhood when a public housing project was torn down. So the neighborhood is improved and this is an “injustice”? Sheesh.

One BLM activist, Phelix Crittenden, wasn’t very subtle.


> Crittenden said several NuLu business owners have volunteered to sign a contract created by the protesters and are open to discussing their roles in gentrification.
> But others have expressed anger and an unwillingness to work together, she said.
> “How you respond to this is how people will remember you in this moment,” Crittenden said. “You want to be on the right side of justice at all times.”



And if you refuse to be on the “right side (my side) of justice at all times”? Nice business you have there. Be a shame if anything happened to it because you weren’t on the “right side of justice at all times.”

Martinez’s pleas for understanding fell on deaf ears. His restaurant has been the target of vandalism and overt threats in recent days. In response, the Hispanic community is rallying around Martinez and offering their support for his resistance.


> According to a press release, members of the city’s Cuban community will meet outside the NuLu restaurant at 4 p.m. Sunday to support the immigrant-owned business, which “has been subject to vandalism and extortion in recent days.”
> The release states that La Bodeguita de Mima was forced to close July 24 during a demonstration that shut down East Market Street, at which several protesters presented Martinez with the list of demands and said he “better put the letter on the door so your business is not f*cked with.”
> The restaurant remained closed the next two days because “management and staff were concerned about safety,” according to the release. “30+ staff members (mostly immigrants) were unable to earn a paycheck.”



That’s what you get for not being on the “right side of justice all the time.”


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Looks like the BLM useful idiots are extorting local businesses. Either the businesses pay up or the BLM causes trouble for them. Sound familiar anyone? The useful idiots "demands" are posted in the spoiler section.
> 
> Louisville Black Lives Matter Using 'Mafia Tactics' on Hispanic Business Owners
> 
> ...


Race war in 3,2,....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2020)

Another article on that. This is some wild shit. 

Cuban community plans rally at NuLu restaurant in response to Black Lives Matter demands


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 3, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Race war in 3,2,....


That would be disastrous, especially for the commie idiots and communities leading the charge on this. Never thought I'd see Marxists openly engaging in racketeering.  Wondering if threatening local businesses like this could be construed as a racially motivated hate crime.

Whoever is organizing this is using race to stir the pot or segments of our society think they're untouchable, due to their skin color. Either way this is gonna need fixing.



ThunderHorse said:


> Another article on that. This is some wild shit.
> 
> Cuban community plans rally at NuLu restaurant in response to Black Lives Matter demands


Linked the commies "contract" with their list of demands, from the article posted.  (They even included their contact info for "trainers" and where they want "profits" to go.)
Occupy Nulu Demands | Intersectionality | Sociological Theories


Spoiler: Contact info


----------



## 757 (Aug 3, 2020)

*Desire for Rooftop Cubans intensifies*


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 3, 2020)

So glad they included all the litigants names, phone numbers, email addresses, and companies for the FBI racketeering charge. When the "litigants" burn their places of business down, harass the owners, or defame the owners in any way, well.......The FEEB's have the list as a starting point...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2020)

Daily Mail go their hands on the Body Cam footage.  Just like with hands up don't shoot, I can't breathe as portrayed is a lie.  Watching it, he was saying I can't breath multiple times well before he was on the ground.  He resisted arrest during that process.


Spoiler: BodyCam Footage


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I can't breathe as portrayed is a lie.


The dude died after being subdued and with 4 officers there, could have easily been cuffed and stuffed.

I'm giving BLM this one.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The dude died after being subdued and with 4 officers there, could have easily been cuffed and stuffed.
> 
> I'm giving BLM this one.


Chauvin is going to prison (no argument from me), but not for murder 2.  Defense will definitely argue he thought Floyd was lying.

The other guys?  Charging them was probably a dumb idea.


----------



## AWP (Aug 4, 2020)

They could walk if they were "over charged" (probably not a legal term). Casey Anthony walked in part because the prosecution charged her with murder 1 thus setting an impossibly high bar. Chauvin could take a murder 2 charge, but if it is ultimately manslaughter he walks unles he takes a plea deal. Plus, the longer the delay, the better it is for the accused. Emotion will burn off and leave everyone with a sober reality and that could backfire on the prosecution,


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Aug 4, 2020)

He would be alive today had he just followed directions.  For those in their 50's or older, do u remember being told what to do and how to behave if pulled over by the police? Remember learning how to write a check? I believe I learned b4 high school. I'm not proud of it I have had numerous interactions with the police. Way back from the time I was 16. Lots of DUI's. B4 I could buy alcohol, 3 then 4th. Took chances and drove to work with no licenses for 16 yrs. Was never suppose to get em back. But I did. Anyway never hurt anyone luckily. But every interaction. Was and still today would be. Yes sir, sorry sir, you got me sir. Dammit sir.I screwed up lets go sir".
There's a speed trap on Perth Rd around Lake Norman, NC. Kyle Busch was caught doing like 125 in a 45. I was coming back from Winston-Salem. Perth is a little short cut off 77 to 150 and avoids Mooresville. I crested a hill bam NC Trooper had me. He said 64 n a 45. I knew I was caught he turned on his blue lights and I bout locked it down. Immediately backed up to him with flashers and interior light on. Hands up and out the window. He just walked across the 2 lane road.. I asked with a smile. How bout a warning he explained he clocked 64 he seen my truck react and my 3rd light iluminat the bed b4 his radar read so he guessed I was 70 or more and just couldn't let it slide. But since he did not have to chase me he reduced my speed and said if I paid court cost b4 trial date I didn't have to show up. I don't think parents or the schools are teaching what I learned at a young age. (Right from wrong) (respect) (all lives matter). Yes sir no sir do what the cops say and you'll live. Go to court.  Take your punishment.LIVE. grow up and contribute. Sorry for dragging it out.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 4, 2020)

n Awe of Y'all said:


> He would be alive today had he just followed directions.  For those in their 50's or older, do u remember being told what to do and how to behave if pulled over by the police? Remember learning how to write a check? I believe I learned b4 high school. I'm not proud of it I have had numerous interactions with the police. Way back from the time I was 16. Lots of DUI's. B4 I could buy alcohol, 3 then 4th. Took chances and drove to work with no licenses for 16 yrs. Was never suppose to get em back. But I did. Anyway never hurt anyone luckily. But every interaction. Was and still today would be. Yes sir, sorry sir, you got me sir. Dammit sir.I screwed up lets go sir".
> There's a speed trap on Perth Rd around Lake Norman, NC. Kyle Busch was caught doing like 125 in a 45. I was coming back from Winston-Salem. Perth is a little short cut off 77 to 150 and avoids Mooresville. I crested a hill bam NC Trooper had me. He said 64 n a 45. I knew I was caught he turned on his blue lights and I bout locked it down. Immediately backed up to him with flashers and interior light on. Hands up and out the window. He just walked across the 2 lane road.. I asked with a smile. How bout a warning he explained he clocked 64 he seen my truck react and my 3rd light iluminat the bed b4 his radar read so he guessed I was 70 or more and just couldn't let it slide. But since he did not have to chase me he reduced my speed and said if I paid court cost b4 trial date I didn't have to show up. I don't think parents or the schools are teaching what I learned at a young age. (Right from wrong) (respect) (all lives matter). Yes sir no sir do what the cops say and you'll live. Go to court.  Take your punishment.LIVE. grow up and contribute. Sorry for dragging it out.



Yea man, gonna disagree. 

"Following directions" doesn't forgive three cops kneeling on that man while he died.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The dude died after being subdued and with 4 officers there, could have easily been cuffed and stuffed.
> 
> I'm giving BLM this one.


I dunno man. One would be surprised how strong a non compliant person can be, especially when they're hyped up on stimulants and adrenaline. Odd moment in my life was me and two other guys carrying/dragging/pulling a non-compliant, and non-restrained, addict/psych patient into a police paddy wagon. It was like something outta the exorcist.

Iraq I could've konked the dude, zip tied him, put a bag over his head, and loaded him onto the truck... here not so much.


----------



## CQB (Aug 4, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Our Immigration guys have had a massive uptake in enquiries from Americans.
> 
> No thanks, stay home and deal with your own mess.


Gun laws here in Anzacistan prevent most Yankees from turning up, with the exception of Lauren Southern.


----------



## Salt USMC (Aug 4, 2020)

n Awe of Y'all said:


> He would be alive today had he just followed directions.  For those in their 50's or older, do u remember being told what to do and how to behave if pulled over by the police? Remember learning how to write a check? I believe I learned b4 high school. I'm not proud of it I have had numerous interactions with the police. Way back from the time I was 16. Lots of DUI's. B4 I could buy alcohol, 3 then 4th. Took chances and drove to work with no licenses for 16 yrs. Was never suppose to get em back. But I did. Anyway never hurt anyone luckily. But every interaction. Was and still today would be. Yes sir, sorry sir, you got me sir. Dammit sir.I screwed up lets go sir".
> There's a speed trap on Perth Rd around Lake Norman, NC. Kyle Busch was caught doing like 125 in a 45. I was coming back from Winston-Salem. Perth is a little short cut off 77 to 150 and avoids Mooresville. I crested a hill bam NC Trooper had me. He said 64 n a 45. I knew I was caught he turned on his blue lights and I bout locked it down. Immediately backed up to him with flashers and interior light on. Hands up and out the window. He just walked across the 2 lane road.. I asked with a smile. How bout a warning he explained he clocked 64 he seen my truck react and my 3rd light iluminat the bed b4 his radar read so he guessed I was 70 or more and just couldn't let it slide. But since he did not have to chase me he reduced my speed and said if I paid court cost b4 trial date I didn't have to show up. I don't think parents or the schools are teaching what I learned at a young age. (Right from wrong) (respect) (all lives matter). Yes sir no sir do what the cops say and you'll live. Go to court.  Take your punishment.LIVE. grow up and contribute. Sorry for dragging it out.


There are numerous videos that have been released just in the last few years of people who have been killed by police even after following their directions.  But as @Cookie_ said, cops shouldn’t be kneeling on a guy’s neck for 9 minutes.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea man, gonna disagree.
> 
> "Following directions" doesn't forgive three cops kneeling on that man while he died.


ETA: Thanks for the photo below @Dvr55119


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Quibbling much? It was one cop kneeling, three cops standing around.



I mean there is photographic evidence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2020)

It feels like this conversation is beginning to simmer - everyone continue to keep it professional please ....


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 4, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> There are numerous videos that have been released just in the last few years of people who have been killed by police even after following their directions.  But as @Cookie_ said, cops shouldn’t be kneeling on a guy’s neck for 9 minutes.


But does it constitute murder? There's absolutely nothing in anything I've seen so far that convinces me that type of charge is warranted.

What I see, are officers that, rightfully, believed the person they had in custody was under the influence of something. Floyd is complaining about breathing before he's placed on the ground or anyone kneels on him.  He's concious and talking for several minutes while Chauvin kneels on him - and they wait for EMS! Chauvin's comments indicate he believes Floyd was not under any real duress from the restraint.

To me, I see training issues but no willful intent.  Murder seems like an awfully big stretch, despite what an irrational BLM crowd says.

FWIW, the fact the media not only chose to air an illegally obtained video about an incident currently in trial, but edited it, speaks to their complete lack of ethics. This is how you get a mistrial.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 4, 2020)

The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I mean there is photographic evidence. View attachment 35114


Helpful, thanks.  Been a lot of shit going on since then so hard to remember everything.



BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.



As you can see in the video there is a significant size disparity between Floyd and all of the officers involved.  Why are there four officers?  Because two of those guys are rookies with two training officers. 

Based on the footage I'm a bit impressed that they didn't use a taser. They didn't escalate. Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything. Obviously all those dudes kneeling on him, the intent is to get him to calm down. What we're missing still is how he forced himself out of the car.

The more evidence comes out, the less cut and dry this becomes.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 4, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> The guy starts begging the officer not to shoot him right off the bat before he's out of the car. He's being dramatic because he's in trouble and he's high... Maybe he resisted, maybe for several minutes. Who cares? Four cops should be able to subdue and capture him in the cruiser while EMS comes, there's no tactical reason for kneeling on anyone's neck for more than the time it takes to put on cuffs, in any situation.


Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Given how high he was, not sure that would have done anything.


Has this been proven as fact (that he was high)?  I do not recall reading about that here.  Possible that I missed it, but I think it is important to be 100% on that claim.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Has this been proven as fact (that he was high)?  I do not recall reading about that here.  Possible that I missed it, but I think it is important to be 100% on that claim.


Autopsy 2020-3700 Floyd | Coronary Circulation | Tetrahydrocannabinol


Spoiler: Toxicology report


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Has this been proven as fact (that he was high)?  I do not recall reading about that here.  Possible that I missed it, but I think it is important to be 100% on that claim.



Yes, crossfaded too. Thanks @R.Caerbannog for posting it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> It feels like this conversation is beginning to simmer - everyone continue to keep it professional please ....


By the way, is that pork and fried tofu simmering in red miso? Or is that a curry? Either way that looks good.

Nvm, looks like a chicken curry type of dish. Mistook the chicken fat for fried and them simmered tofu.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 4, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Remember, they pulled him out of the squad because he was banging his head on the window.



But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.

I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 4, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> But there are ways to restrain someone without a knee on the neck. Two hands on the forehead works fine, and with 4 officers it should have been done in another manner.
> 
> I don't know what the police have for restraints, but self harm is not anywhere near a new concept for police to deal with. He was handcuffed from the back, they could restrain him on his side with one controlling the head, or face down with one on the legs, one on the body and one on the head. There's several ways to do it, suffocation is the number one concern in restraining someone.


I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue. 

Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks.  Chauvin was the experienced officer.  His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers.  That's not murder, that's not racism.  Nothing about this supports either claim.  

Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't disagree. Training certainly looks to be the issue.
> 
> Keep in mind a couple of those officers had been on the street for less than 2 weeks.  Chauvin was the experienced officer.  His actions don't demonstrate an intent to kill but potentially highlight training issues -- which were now being passed on to rookie officers.  That's not murder, that's not racism.  Nothing about this supports either claim.
> 
> Now, if somone wants to argue some sort of negligence or manslaughter, that's a different question.


Remember, Knee on the neck was an approved restraint technique for MNPD. 

Neck Hold Used By Minneapolis Officer Was Approved By Department Policy


----------



## AWP (Aug 4, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> By the way, is that pork and fried tofu simmering in red miso? Or is that a curry? Either way that looks good.
> 
> Nvm, looks like a chicken curry type of dish. Mistook the chicken fat for fried and them simmered tofu.
> 
> View attachment 35116



Keep pushing our buttons...


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Aug 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> Keep pushing our buttons...


<Mod Edit.  No harm, OP just did not understand the context of @AWP 's post>


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2020)

n Awe of Y'all said:


> <post>


You are commenting on something you did not know the context of.  No harm.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> You are commenting on something you did not know the context of.  No harm.



I do believe this is what the internet is built from.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I do believe this is what the internet is built from.


@AWP is correct, not every post had to be fodder for “open mic night”.

Sometime it’s okay to just let the staff do their job and move on without derailing the thread with your best material.

Please and thank you.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 4, 2020)

Fair enough; apologies.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 4, 2020)

Carry on...with respect and restraint.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 5, 2020)

After seeing the body cam video and admittedly not watching much of the cell phone video, I see that this trial is going to be a shit show at best. I feel for the guy, and the officers trying to control a volatile situation. 

I don't know the officers, and I hope whatever the outcome is justice is served. I'm sick of trial by media, I worked security at a hospital and had to restrain teenagers and large kids before, escort grown men out of the building, its always a crappy experience.


----------



## AWP (Aug 5, 2020)

Whether he's found guilty or innocent, the odds of Chauvin receiving a fair trial are on par with my odds of banging Kate Beckinsale.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 5, 2020)

Just another night in Paradise


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290876232217890816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290893299247538176
Antifa militants set fires, attack police building in Portland as Democratic senators insist they don't exist

Op-Ed from Portland PD Chief in the NY Times: Opinion | I’m the Police Chief in Portland. Violence Isn’t the Answer.



> After the horrendous killing of George Floyd, people in Portland, Ore., joined with thousands across the country in demonstrations to address police reform and widespread systemic racism. The leaders of the Portland Police Bureau denounced this tragic death, and we reiterated our willingness to engage in reforms.
> 
> But Portland has now faced weeks of extreme difficulties and drew intense national attention after federal officers were deployed here.
> 
> ...


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> Whether he's found guilty or innocent, the odds of Chauvin receiving a fair trial are on par with my odds of banging Kate Beckinsale.


MN AG already violated the gag order.
Chauvin gets off on appeal.


----------



## AWP (Aug 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> MN AG already violated the gag order.
> Chauvin gets off on appeal.



The AG?

BWAHAHAHAHA! Donzies. Yeah, he walks.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Just another night in Paradise
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290876232217890816
> ...


Right on dude. Made a meme to encapsulate the craziness of this situation.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 5, 2020)

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.


Spoiler: Toy Story










Spoiler: Scroll of Truth


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 5, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> MN AG already violated the gag order.
> Chauvin gets off on appeal.


Yeah, but the judge basically said the AG's comments weren't material and subsequently removed the gag order.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 5, 2020)

The trial is going to be a massive shit show.

Riots to follow.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 5, 2020)

So I was reading up on the "gag order" issue, and had three thoughts/questions--

1) the judge dropped his gag order in part because "it wasn't working." So why have gag orders at all?

2) Why allow the body cam video to only be viewed in person? If you're going to allow the public to view it, why not make it publicly available? You HAD to know that it was going to get leaked...

3) Hiring local (civilian) attorneys to prosecute the case... isn't prosecution kind of, you know, an "inherently governmental function?" I assume that this is not uncommon, or at least not unprecedented, but it doesn't sit right with me. My last tour in Iraq, in ~2009, we were directed to switch over all of our contract interrogators to GS, because interrogation (of foreign enemy combatants) was an "inherently governmental function." OK fine. But if that's the case, shouldn't it be even more true of prosecutions of American citizens inside the US? *related reading*


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 5, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> So I was reading up on the "gag order" issue, and had three thoughts/questions--
> 
> 1) the judge dropped his gag order in part because "it wasn't working." So why have gag orders at all?
> 
> ...


Can a non DA prosecute a case?
I thought Ellis was doing it himself?
Judge is a political hack, should have tossed Ellis in jail over a weekend to make a point.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 5, 2020)

Appointments of special prosecutors is not uncommon, but not sure why they would in this case....sounds more political than anything else.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 5, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> So I was reading up on the "gag order" issue, and had three thoughts/questions--
> 
> 1) the judge dropped his gag order in part because "it wasn't working." So why have gag orders at all?
> 
> ...



Ok, so I spoke to the boss since she's home.  

Term here is "Of Counsel".  The case still has to be prosecuted by the government.  So if these folks that were hired Pro Bono more than likely will be a part of the research and advice team.  They will be a part of prep.  But they will not sit at the desk in the court room.  This apparently "happens all the time".


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 5, 2020)

Geee, I never anticipated this 

Dozens Of Businesses Consider Moving Out Of Downtown Minneapolis


----------



## Totentanz (Aug 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Geee, I never anticipated this
> 
> Dozens Of Businesses Consider Moving Out Of Downtown Minneapolis



I would think for most businesses, "leave" would be the default option (to be refuted by costs or logistical hurdles).  Why would you stay?



AWP said:


> on par with my odds of banging Kate Beckinsale.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 6, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Can a non DA prosecute a case?
> I thought Ellis was doing it himself?
> Judge is a political hack, should have tossed Ellis in jail over a weekend to make a point.


FWIW, here's my somewhat rudimentary understanding and breakdown of things:

*Mike Freeman - Hennepin County Attorney* (Hennepin County is where Minneapolis is located):  Very experienced.  Filed initial charges against Chauvin only. Has jurisdiction and would normally prosecute this case, however, was basically told by the governor of MN to step aside and let MN Attorney General take lead.  Supposedly his office is still assisting the AG but it's unclear what that really means.

*Keith Ellison - Minnesota Attorney General:*  Lead prosecutor in the case against 4 officers at request of governor.  Brought elevated murder charges against Chauvin and the other 3 officers.  Of note, and it's been stated here previously, Ellison is first and foremost, a politician; he's a former MN State Rep to Congress for MN's 5th District (Ilhan Omar's district - her predecessor).  He's not a prosecutor nor is he a courtroom attorney.  At one time he held a license to practice law as some sort of civil rights attorney, but last report I saw it was not active and hadn't been for quite some time; this is not a requirement for AG's in Minnesota but speaks to his experience or lack thereof.

*Judge Peter Cahill:  *Presiding judge over the case.  Been a judge since 2007.  Has prior experience both as defense attorney and prosecutor

*Prosecution Team: *

Headed by MN AG Ellison
The criminal division of the AG's office will handle the case under his direction; this is pretty rare - they typically aren't involved in these cases
Supposedly, Hennepin County Attorney's Office is providing assistance, although it's unclear what that means exactly
Ellison brought on 4 "experienced" pro-bono attorneys to assist, unclear exactly what their role is; no additional comment on their involvement was made at the time of the announcement "out of respect for the gag order"
*Charges:*

Chauvin:  2nd degree murder (MN Statute 609.19.2(1)), 3rd degree murder (609.195(a)), and 2nd degree manslaughter (609.205(1))
3 other officers:   Aiding and abetting 2nd degree murder (609.19.2(1) with reference to 609.05.1), aiding and abetting 2nd degree manslaughter (609.205(1) with reference to 609.05.1)
Minnesota Criminal Statutes:  Ch. 609 MN Statutes

*Pretrial Hearing Status: *

Judge initially issued gag order.  Defense attorneys alleged AG violated gag order almost immediately.  Judge subsequently removed gag order within about a week or so with no penalty to AG
Judge warned attorneys on both sides about speaking publicly about the trial under threat of changing the venue; appears to be empty threat
Defense attorneys for a couple of the officers have requested the case against their clients be dismissed; so far, no go
As part of the motion for dismissal, body cam transcripts and video were filed into evidence - this made them public; defense attorneys for at least two of the officers want the video made public; as a result, court ordered video be made available to media and public by appointment only - no recordings, thus the issue with leaked video
Decision as to whether cameras will be allowed in courtroom remains open; prosecution opposes cameras, defense supports them
3 officers are out on bail, Chauvin has bail set at $1.25M but don't believe he posted and remains in custody
No pleas entered at this time

*Next Hearing Date: *11 Sep 20

*Trial:  *Scheduled for 8 Mar 21; judge and prosecution assumed all 4 will stand trial together, although defense attorneys are requesting separate trials - TBD


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 6, 2020)

@Blizzard  Great breakdown! thanks for the catch-up!


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 6, 2020)

Exactly how does it work that he's getting 2 murder charges and a manslaughter charge for one single death?


----------



## compforce (Aug 6, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Exactly how does it work that he's getting 2 murder charges and a manslaughter charge for one single death?



I had the same question.  My best guess is that if they charge him with all three, it allows a jury to pick which one to say he's guilty of.  It's not double jeopardy unless they were to find him guilty of more than one of them.  If they were to only charge him with the second degree and the jury found that the evidence didn't rise to the standard, then he's acquitted and they are unable to bring another round of charges.

Personally I would say it's BS.  The charge should match what they think they can get a conviction for.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 6, 2020)

Putting on the tinfoil hat here so take this with as much salt as you'd like, but MN AG is a known supporter of Antifa, correct? What would be the easiest way to sow discourse and further increase the divide we see right now, other than to inflate the charges beyond the point where you could feasibly convict Chauvin? The vast majority of society has already made its mind up and are convinced that Chauvin is guilty, we all know what happens when Chauvin is acquitted because the chosen charges can't stick.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 6, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Exactly how does it work that he's getting 2 murder charges and a manslaughter charge for one single death?


Based on the courts martial and jury panels I've served on, it is not uncommon for serious offenses to have lesser included charges in the event that the more serious charge(s) result in acquittal, but there was still an offense committed...I was on a rape court martial when I was a lieutenant and the lesser included charge was indecent conduct...since the act began consensually, it was difficult to convict the SM of rape, but his conduct fit the specifications for the lesser included charge...


----------



## compforce (Aug 6, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Putting on the tinfoil hat here so take this with as much salt as you'd like, but MN AG is a known supporter of Antifa, correct? What would be the easiest way to sow discourse and further increase the divide we see right now, other than to inflate the charges beyond the point where you could feasibly convict Chauvin? The vast majority of society has already made its mind up and are convinced that Chauvin is guilty, we all know what happens when Chauvin is acquitted because the chosen charges can't stick.



That's too tinfoil...   Unless the AG is deeply entrenched in/with Antifa, who is going to be the very first target of any anger if Chauvin is acquitted because the charges didn't stick?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 6, 2020)

compforce said:


> I had the same question.  My best guess is that if they charge him with all three, it allows a jury to pick which one to say he's guilty of.  It's not double jeopardy unless they were to find him guilty of more than one of them.  If they were to only charge him with the second degree and the jury found that the evidence didn't rise to the standard, then he's acquitted and they are unable to bring another round of charges.
> 
> Personally I would say it's BS.  The charge should match what they think they can get a conviction for.


Happens pretty often.  Burdens of proof for each charge is separate.  As said below, he can still be convicted of lesser charges.  It's not double jeopardy to have all those charges.  It would be double jeopardy to have to trials under the same exact charges.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 6, 2020)

compforce said:


> That's too tinfoil...   Unless the AG is deeply entrenched in/with Antifa, who is going to be the very first target of any anger if Chauvin is acquitted because the charges didn't stick?


Agree it may be a little too tinfoil but the AG is a politican first and foremost. As a result, I believe there is a narrative he can and will push in the case of acquittal.  That is:  "The system" (legal) is inherently broken and/or tipped such that the black community cannot receive justice against those that do them wrong, like the police,  citing case in point.  Sadly, that message would probably resonate well with it's intended audience.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 6, 2020)

compforce said:


> That's too tinfoil...   Unless the AG is deeply entrenched in/with Antifa, who is going to be the very first target of any anger if Chauvin is acquitted because the charges didn't stick?


MPD.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 6, 2020)

@compforce @Blizzard

Can an AG be recused?


----------



## compforce (Aug 6, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> MPD.


Too late, they are already a target.


----------



## compforce (Aug 6, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @compforce @Blizzard
> 
> Can an AG be recused?
> View attachment 35147


More importantly, do they have to know how to spell and use basic grammar?


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 6, 2020)

compforce said:


> That's too tinfoil...   Unless the AG is deeply entrenched in/with Antifa, who is going to be the very first target of any anger if Chauvin is acquitted because the charges didn't stick?




You're right it probably is too far into the tinfoil roll, but as @Blizzard  said the AG is a politician through and through looking for a political slam dunk. Whats to say while he may not be an Antifa supporter he inadvertantly spins it in a way that causes an absolute shit storm.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 6, 2020)

compforce said:


> More importantly, do they have to know how to spell and use basic grammar?


Spelling and grammar are racist? Much like history.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 7, 2020)

An Article from the New York Times from Survivors of the CHAZ.  Sometimes journalism does happen there I guess. Abolish the Police? Those Who Survived the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure



> SEATTLE — Faizel Khan was being told by the news media and his own mayor that the protests in his hometown were peaceful, with “a block party atmosphere.”
> 
> But that was not what he saw through the windows of his Seattle coffee shop. He saw encampments overtaking the sidewalks. He saw roving bands of masked protesters smashing windows and looting.
> 
> ...


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 7, 2020)

San Antonio is increasing the PD budget ($8M  IIRC) and the defund crowd is going nuts.
They are also going to move some stuff from the PD to other agencies (good move).
One of the issues is FD/PD is 24/7, other agencies will have to become 24/7 , that'll be fun to watch.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 7, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> San Antonio is increasing the PD budget ($8M  IIRC) and the defund crowd is going nuts.
> They are also going to move some stuff from the PD to other agencies (good move).
> One of the issues is FD/PD is 24/7, other agencies will have to become 24/7 , that'll be fun to watch.



I have an acquaintance who is a psych NP, he gets paid double time and a half _per hour_ to cover LE-related psych evals at night.  He is on-call, doesn't actually have to be awake, and gets paid $140/hour for this.  So all these people who think that a lot of LE duties should be relegated to non-LE personnel are not thinking about the downhill consequences of having to cover 24/7.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 8, 2020)

I don't what the hell the deal is in Portland, don't release these dudes when you arrest them.  Notably the tactics by the Black Bloc in Portland is continuing to evolve.  Pay attention to the photographs. 

Portland protest escalates to arrests, force Friday after overnight ‘unlawful assembly’.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 8, 2020)

...if they make bail, they make bail, that’s the law.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 9, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> ...if they make bail, they make bail, that’s the law.


Portland DA was just releasing them and dropping charges. There's a difference between them making bail vs a full release.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 9, 2020)

Ben on the George Floyd arrest. Thoughts?






/Cough acquittals all around. The courts have overcharged the officers. When acquitted all hell is gonna break loose.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

Yep... media was full of shit, ran a disinformation campaign, and fomented political & social unrest. Same with the Commie AG, his comrades in govt, and the other Marxist subversives our nation is infected with.

As for all hell breaking loose, it doesn't have to. Though that requires rioters not being granted political top cover by the American Left. If people are gonna burn, loot, and murder, then turnabout is fair play.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 9, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog  Full disclosure and BLUF, Although I agree with your  _""media was full of shit, ran a disinformation campaign, and fomented political & social unrest""_-- the media didn't have full access to the bodycam vids until this past week so no-one knew except the gubmint folks what was on those tapes. 
It's gonna be a wild ride during the courtroom antics of one said Minnesota AG POS.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> @R.Caerbannog  Full disclosure and BLUF, Although I agree with your  _""media was full of shit, ran a disinformation campaign, and fomented political & social unrest""_-- the media didn't have full access to the bodycam vids until this past week so no-one knew except the gubmint folks what was on those tapes.
> It's gonna be a wild ride during the courtroom antics of one said Minnesota AG POS.


As dumb as this sounds, I get the feeling the media had more information than they were letting on. Maybe I'm jumping at shadows, but the same MSM apparatus that had all sorts of contacts in the govt, secret dossiers, and led the charge on impeachment, didn't do this by accident.

There are too many things that just don't fit. Media malfeasance/incompetence and the death of a thug doesn't start a brushfire Marxist movement.


----------



## AWP (Aug 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> There are too many things that just don't fit. Media malfeasance/incompetence and the death of a thug doesn't start a brushfire Marxist movement.



I wouldn't call him a thug. I also wouldn't call him an upright citizen. With that said, I think we are naive to view the..."protests" as a spontaneous result of Floyd's death. I think we're seeing "canned Spam" reactions to an incident that shouldn't have occurred. Floyd shouldn't have died, his actions didn't warrant that IMO, but the results of his death are also unwarranted.

I'm just to the left of a Mongol warlord and even I think this country needs to sort out its issues with race. There are things IMO that need to change for Black, White, and everyone else for the better. I think we should honestly look at what and who we are as a country, but destroying what we have is a goddamned travesty.

This is coming from a guy who would machine gun everyone in Pakistan between the ages of 0 and 500.

America, do the fuck better or else we'll all pay a price. That writing is on the wall.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> I wouldn't call him a thug. I also wouldn't call him an upright citizen. With that said, I think we are naive to view the..."protests" as a spontaneous result of Floyd's death. I think we're seeing "canned Spam" reactions to an incident that shouldn't have occurred. Floyd shouldn't have died, his actions didn't warrant that IMO, but the results of his death are also unwarranted.
> 
> I'm just to the left of a Mongol warlord and even I think this country needs to sort out its issues with race. There are things IMO that need to change for Black, White, and everyone else for the better. I think we should honestly look at what and who we are as a country, but destroying what we have is a goddamned travesty.
> 
> ...



I knew I liked you.


----------



## AWP (Aug 9, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I knew I liked you.



First the Aussies, now you.... where is my Epstein bed sheet when I need it? Clearly I'm on the wrong side of history...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 9, 2020)

I saw this earlier.  I think this is what you call Battery

Rioters Storm Portland Suburb: Throw Paint On Elderly Woman, Harass Another Using Walker


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2020)

Brief update from the other day...

Attorneys for one of the officers tried to have Hennepin County Attorney, Mike Freeman (see above),  removed from the case due to "compromised ethics" and "inability to be impartial".  The request was denied. 

I find the request interesting given that Ellison is the lead and has said much worse publicly.  It felt more like they were just taking a shot at getting a competent prosecutor removed from the case.

Ellison also added another civil rights attorney to the prosecution.

Request to dismiss Hennepin County Attorney Freeman from George Floyd case denied; Ellison adds attorney to prosecution team

Also, in re: to the comments about the body cam availability, video was available to all media, they just couldn't make copies and had to view it in person.  Public could also view it by appointment.  So, availability wasn't really so much the issue, it was accessibility and the ability to rebroadcast it. As stated earlier, defense for at least 3 of the officers wanted it released publicly because they felt it helps their case.  Since Chauvin's cam was knocked off during the arrest, it's unlikely there's much to be gleaned from it that can't be obtained from the others.


----------



## Dame (Aug 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I saw this earlier.  I think this is what you call Battery
> 
> Rioters Storm Portland Suburb: Throw Paint On Elderly Woman, Harass Another Using Walker



At least some articles are calling them "rioters" instead of protesters.

This group had enough when the antifa crowd went after a veteran in a wheel chair near Ft. Collins. These assholes have no reason for this and no connection to the Floyd incident whatsoever. When is the rest of the media going to get it?
Antifa Beaten After They Allegedly Went After Man In Wheelchair: ‘You Guys Came To The Wrong City’


----------



## Marine0311 (Aug 9, 2020)

Dame said:


> At least some articles are calling them "rioters" instead of protesters.
> 
> This group had enough when the antifa crowd went after a veteran in a wheel chair near Ft. Collins. These assholes have no reason for this and no connection to the Floyd incident whatsoever. When is the rest of the media going to get it?
> Antifa Beaten After They Allegedly Went After Man In Wheelchair: ‘You Guys Came To The Wrong City’



I am for a good ass whipping now and then.


----------



## compforce (Aug 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I saw this earlier.  I think this is what you call Battery
> 
> Rioters Storm Portland Suburb: Throw Paint On Elderly Woman, Harass Another Using Walker



This is more than just simple battery


> When officers moved to disperse the rioters, they “were hit with projectiles and commercial grade fireworks,” the department said. “Because of life safety issues created by members in the group, CS gas and crowd control munitions were used. While dispersing efforts continued, a truck associated with the group attempted to run over several officers.” The police officers were also attacked by rioters who threw large rocks at them.


----------



## digrar (Aug 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> First the Aussies, now you....



I was at that meeting, it was a hard no when I left, WTF went on afterwards? @CQB @Scarecrow


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 9, 2020)

This is like the 10th fire or something like that started by the Black Bloc in Portland Police Union hall.  I'm pretty sure in any decent city, all rioters apprehended would be held in remand.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292353331105472514


Dame said:


> At least some articles are calling them "rioters" instead of protesters.
> 
> This group had enough when the antifa crowd went after a veteran in a wheel chair near Ft. Collins. These assholes have no reason for this and no connection to the Floyd incident whatsoever. When is the rest of the media going to get it?
> Antifa Beaten After They Allegedly Went After Man In Wheelchair: ‘You Guys Came To The Wrong City’


Well none of these are protests anymore.  They haven't been protests for months.  They are all riots using the sheeps clothing of peaceful demonstrations to then assault people.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> I wouldn't call him a thug. I also wouldn't call him an upright citizen. With that said, I think we are naive to view the..."protests" as a spontaneous result of Floyd's death. I think we're seeing "canned Spam" reactions to an incident that shouldn't have occurred. Floyd shouldn't have died, his actions didn't warrant that IMO, but the results of his death are also unwarranted.
> 
> I'm just to the left of a Mongol warlord and even I think this country needs to sort out its issues with race. There are things IMO that need to change for Black, White, and everyone else for the better. I think we should honestly look at what and who we are as a country, but destroying what we have is a goddamned travesty.
> 
> ...


Floyd was a thug, the dirtbag lived of the misery of others and preyed upon his community for his own personal gain. World is better without him.

As for Floyd's deification and race being used as justification for burning, looting, murdering, etc... I'm calling bullshit. To me, the people pushing the race angle and using it to justify their actions are useful idiots. Same goes for the retards acting as political and literal shields for Marxist trash. People don't think commie uprisings be like they is, but it do.

If I we're a nihilist, I'd think this was part of a scorched earth political policy fomented by a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats. You know, the deep state types who've sold out our national interests, for the sake of globalism, and trips to pedophile island.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Floyd was a thug, the dirtbag lived of the misery of others and preyed upon his community for his own personal gain. World is better without him.


I just don't get you man.  I really just don't get you.

How is it better?  I mean serious question, how it it better?

He's dead.

Is it better for his family who loved him?   Probably not.

Is it better for the businesses and cities that burned because of him begin gone? They'd probably say 'no'.

Is it better for the cops and first responders who overnight when from some semblance of feeling good about their job, to becoming public enemy #1, with cities looking for ways to shut their departments down?  I'm thinking not.

All because some cop who knew him personally, murdered him in front of 3 other officers.

So tell me @R.Caerbannog , how the fuck is the world better without him?

Christ on a crutch, man.  Sometimes.....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I just don't get you man.  I really just don't get you.
> 
> How is it better?  I mean serious question, how it it better?
> 
> ...


One less habitual criminal and drug addict off the streets.

Question, which family? Cause the guy was the epitome of a deadbeat dad. Fathered a bunch a kids who didn't get anything before or after his death.

Businesses and cities are being burned down by Marxists/useful idiots. Shit would stop if you ventilated the perps... but, they're special and have political top cover. Unlike law abiding citizens and businesses who just get shit on.

Again Marxists, commies, subversion, etc. Bleeding heart liberals allowed the deluge of quislings and useful idiots to take over those cities/counties/states. This is a case where you get what you vote for. MN's commie AG is a good example of this.

Floyd died of a heart attack cause he was doing "all the drugs", with a side covid, and resisted arrest. Dude killed himself.

(My grammar and syntax is crap. Hence all the edits.)


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> One less habitual criminal and drug addict off the streets.





R.Caerbannog said:


> Shit would stop if you ventilated the perps.





R.Caerbannog said:


> Floyd died of a heart attack cause he was doing "all the drugs", with a side covid, and resisted arrest. Dude killed himself.






This is literally the only thing you’ve said that I can agree with.


R.Caerbannog said:


> My grammar and syntax is crap






Maybe I’m the idiot.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

I dunno what to say @Ooh-Rah.

Like I mentioned 30+ pages ago (I think), this entire incident reeks of Marxist subversion. As time passes, my assumption and guesses are only solidified.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 9, 2020)

I didn't know the guy BUT I do know GOD and Jesus have a plan for us all. I feel like we get closer every day to seeing that plan come to fruition. 

 Sometimes it is easy to speak ill of the dead but it is best sometimes to just leave the obvious unsaid.

GOD Bless Guys and Gals.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 9, 2020)

Can we at least not call the former officer a murderer here?  Or at least put alleged in front of that as a qualifier.  I significantly doubt that he woke up that day to do anything but train the rookie he was with.  Sure, he has a few complaints in his record, he's also got a couple handfuls of commendations.  

He had his knee on the guy's neck, but we now know that it was an approved restraint technique.  We also know that while he was standing, Floyd stated the phrase "I can't breath" multiple times.  

We also know that he was resisting arrest throughout the process. Did Chauvin's actions lead to the death of Mr. Floyd? Yeah I could agree with that. But as shown earlier in this thread, Mr Floyd was high as stunt kite, which is a significant factor in this whole thing. 

Was Mr. Floyd a "good person". The answer is no. And yes, whenever there is an officer involved shooting, it always seems that it is a person that is a former criminal or someone caught in a crime that gets deified. It keeps happening and happening. Is there a problem with the system? Or are we all just human? We're not paying LEOs enough to get the BEST. Just like we aren't paying boot Soldiers and Marines enough to get the BEST. 

Do most people do their job because they have a calling to serve that is extrinsic to them? Yes.

Have Marxists taken control of a narrative and are using protests to continue violence against our institutions whilst elected leadership cowers to them? Yes.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Maybe I’m the idiot.


Yep.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> All because some cop who knew him personally, murdered him in front of 3 other officers.


In the interest of keep things factual, there is absolutely no evidence to support, no has anyone with any real credibility, suggested the two knew each other.  On the contrary, even the club owner where they worked suggested it was very unlikely they ever met or knew of each other.  

And as for murder, that's still TBD.  Did Floyd die while he was being restrained? Yes.  However, that alone doesn't constitute murder.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Yep.


Nah dude, don't beat yourself up. Think of it like dealing with the 5 stages of grief. (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance)

Meme from earlier.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 9, 2020)

I think.........................Famous last words................

I know the officer ACCUSED of murdering George hasn't got a friend in this world BUT I also think he wasn't entirely responsible for Floyds death if at all.

I had a good friend recently die of a Fentanyl overdose and it wasn't pretty. He was also a hell of a human being. One of those guys who'd give you the shirt off his back. George on the other hand............... Like I said. I didn't know the man. So I'll leave judgement to the Man upstairs. That's his realm.

We/Us we are Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen/women. We don't judge we just deliver the accused. That's our jobs and we are good at it. Maybe the best on earth at it. But I digress.

So lets ASSUME................ George did die of a fentanyl overdose exacerbated by a knee on his neck. Does that make the officer in question solely responsible.............I'm gonna lean towards NO. Does it make it a tragic ACCIDENT? I'd have to say yes.

Are we gonna see more riots if there is an acquittal? Most definitely. Would we have seen them anyways? I'd say yes to that as well.

So what have we learned from all of this? Don't do drugs and maybe when you get detained by a law enforcement officer you won't act like a complete jackass that might end in a horrible tragedy (for you) and for everyone else involved.

John 14:6


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Nah dude, don't beat yourself up. Think of it like dealing with the 5 stages of grief. (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance)
> 
> Meme from earlier.
> View attachment 35220


I feel like you should change your screen name to “J. McCarthy.” Much more suitable, less of an insult to a great comedy too.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 10, 2020)

While I feel sorry for the guy dying like that, George Floyd was no saint, and played a role in his own death.

The early claims that the officer knew him personally have died down. The new body cam footage clearly shows him saying he can't breaht/having a panic attack before he was on the ground. The media and many people are going out of their way to make it look like a white privilege, white supremacy homicide which it most definitely was not. 

I blame poor training and inaction on the part of the other officers, combined with the fact that the suspect was chock full'o drugs...


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 10, 2020)

Snopes...

I want to also point out how bad "Snopes" fact checking is... Some of the more colorful statements bolded. The page reads "_partly false_" instead of "_mostly true_" like it should.

Snopes Floyd Criminal Record

"That video, as well as misleading photographs, memes like the one displayed below, and sensationalized tabloid stories about Floyd’s past, prompted numerous inquiries to Snopes from people wondering if he had indeed served time in jail or prison before his death at age 46.

In brief, the *alleged crimes and time periods are mostly accurate*, with the caveat that *Floyd was convicted of theft in 1998, not armed robbery*. But the *following information makes other aspects of the post misleading: Not all the crimes resulted in prison time, but rather jail sentences; * *no evidence suggests a woman involved in the 2007 charge was pregnant*; it’s an exaggeration of toxicology results to claim Floyd “was high on meth” when he was choked by a cop, and *there’s no proof that Floyd was “getting ready to drive a car” before his fatal encounter *with police *other than the fact that officers say they approached him as he sat in the driver’s seat of a vehicle. *"????


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 10, 2020)

Or that he drove there to begin with.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Or that he drove there to begin with.


 
Like they said, "no evidence"... until the body cam footage is released and he's literally sitting in a car driver's seat. He probably wasn't going to drive, driving from the steering wheel at the driver seat is a capitalist white supremacist construct. Who are we to say he would've driven high?


----------



## Bypass (Aug 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Or that he drove there to begin with.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 10, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Like they said, "no evidence"... until the body cam footage is released and he's literally sitting in a car driver's seat. He probably wasn't going to drive, driving from the steering wheel at the driver seat is a capitalist white supremacist construct. Who are we to say he would've driven high?



Dude was going to get a DU/WI, and booked anyway; taken from a Minneapolis Lawyer site about DUI's while not driving:

"While “driving” and “operating” are generally interpreted using their ordinary meanings, “physical control” is amorphous and is heavily dependent on the facts of each individual case. The jury instruction recommended by the Minnesota Supreme Court in _State v. Duemke_ states that physical control is “being in a position to exercise dominion or control over the vehicle. Thus, a person [is] in physical control of a vehicle if he has the means to initiate any movement of that vehicle and he is in close proximity to the operating controls of the vehicle, and this is true whether the vehicle can be driven on the highway at that point or not.'"

Pretty ambiguous however, goes onto clarify later "intent" and/or past driving or future intention to drive:

"...The driver in _State v. Juncewski_ decided to take a nap behind the wheel while parked with his keys in the ignition, and the appellate court found this constituted physical control.

To justify these somewhat outrageous rationales, the Minnesota Supreme Court has stated that physical control requires some evidence that the alleged driver “has or is about to take some action that makes the motor vehicle a source of danger to themselves, to others, or to property.”

and 

"... court has reversed a conviction for an individual taking no steps toward driving the vehicle. In _Shane v. Commissioner of Public Safety_, the ignition was running, and an intoxicated individual was sitting in the passenger seat. This passenger leaned toward the steering wheel and touched the gas pedal. However, the passenger never moved to the driver’s seat, placed his hands on the steering wheel, nor shifted the stick shift..."

This isn't directed at you

Someone mentioned God earlier and His plan coming to fruition; it was going to be this or something else. There are plenty of incidents to choose from, and if media is good at anything it's exacerbating emotions and capitalizing on them. Like water, these particular people with grievances will penetrate any weakness in their opposition, and covert or drown the ones that can't swim.

As uneducated as I am; I still think it's important to note the similarities between what we're experiencing now and what happened to Russia early into the century and China in the 60's. I'll only name a couple things. First and most controversial being the similarity between the Kulak displacement and appropriation of their lands for Soviet use and the demonization of the "white man" which I'm using as a broad term for anyone that believes in American National Values regardless of race or religion or origin (Same way you'd say white hat and black hats in westerns). The 75+% of people that are consumer and producing peoples (Kulak equivalent).

The second thing I'll mention, according to wikipedia, there were at least 800k Red guard under Mao, I can't find a total figure. Even then it's safe to say it was a fraction of the population that caused the entire destruction of their heritage, which once their use had been fulfilled were dismantled by the PLA. Right now, we're seeing the galvanization of our youth and have-nots being used in the same manner; all the while the real benefactors bide their time. The talk is there; people calling for violence against Americans, it's dystopic- but we're repeating old patterns. Desensitization to carnal and base instincts (Onlyfans is an epidemic bruh), concentration of wealth, empty threats of punishment, State and "Expert-backed Science" becoming the new God essentially (Not Trump's state). 

I find it funny that McCarthy was brought up for what I assume was a Red Scare reference, like BLM and associates didn't just fund and stage riots/protests all over the world simultaneously. Even in Japan, for Christ's sake. Racially homogeneous Japan lol. And if there hasn't been a leftoid slant and subversion going on throughout all levels of education. 

It's cyclical. Like a low level Fermi Paradox Filter, many nations behind us have failed; FORTUNATELY, we have road maps for what happened. Or it could be none of that matters and it all happens anyway. I do believe to an extent the next stage of human social structure is for the world to be united; however perilous and fearsome that may be to opposing parties. It is important who leads it and what moral character they have to the degree that it will define Humanity's next step.

With all this pedo action (For and against), watch for a 2nd Weimar too; interesting times.


----------



## Salt USMC (Aug 10, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> post


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 10, 2020)

Judge ordered full body cam footage from 2 officers be released to the public this morning:
Officers' body camera video in George Floyd case released to public


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 10, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I want to also point out how bad "Snopes" fact checking is... Some of the more colorful statements bolded. The page reads "_partly false_" instead of "_mostly true_" like it should.


The article reeked to me of heavy bias in favor of George Floyd, if for nothing other than the tone and the wording.

But if this is the meme they are referencing:



... and it needs this many corrections to be true:

1998 10 months in *prison** jail* armed robbery.
2002 8 months in *prison* *jail* for cocaine
2004 10 months in *prison* *jail* for cocaine
2005 10 months in *prison* *jail* for cocaine
2007 5 years in prison for armed robbery of a *pregnant* woman in her home
When he was killed, he *was high on meth* *had trace amounts of methamphetamines in his blood that registered below even the legal therapeutic minimum given to treat ADHD* *getting ready to drive a car and possible kill your kid* *sitting in a parked vehicle*.
Too bad the *pregnant* woman didn't have a gun.

... then a categorization of _*partly false*_ is more than justified for it or any other meme with that many abjectly false and misleading claims attached to literally every salient point in it while presenting as fact.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2020)

It's funny that all over, not just this, but everywhere people are trying to soften language. 

Well folks, generally in the US, the jail is where you go for temporary detention.  And prison is where you go for more permanent detention.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 10, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Aug 10, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> ...post...



First, regarding your post above, on FB there was a meme that went something like this:  "If COVID is that bad why aren't all the essential workers dying?"  Under it was a comment that said "because we're already dead inside."  It was 'censored' as 'partly false,' not even understanding it was satire/sarcasm.

Anywho, second...I have lived a life of service in which I have been surrounded by people who probably should not live, and sometimes (military) I could do something about it, and other times (paramedic, ED RN, tactical medic), I could not.  Even St. Mattis opined ".... That said, there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."  I absolutely understand @Ooh-Rah point, I also see @R.Caerbannog point.  For the people who work in the tension, it can be hard to stay above it.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 10, 2020)




----------



## Locksteady (Aug 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> First, regarding your post above, on FB there was a meme that went something like this:  "If COVID is that bad why aren't all the essential workers dying?"  Under it was a comment that said "because we're already dead inside."


That is a great one!





Devildoc said:


> It was 'censored' as 'partly false,' not even understanding it was satire/sarcasm.


I did a search on that Snopes site for the meme you're talking about.  If you have a link to the Snopes page, that would be really useful for context, but I don't think it's necessary to tackle your point.

So, let's assume that Snopes responded to someone asking about the truth in the premise of the joke by saying it was partly true.  If Facebook chose to censor a meme (if this is what you're saying) due to this characterization by Snopes, it adds even more to the list of reasons why people are increasingly critical of that social media platform.





Devildoc said:


> Anywho, second...I have lived a life of service in which I have been surrounded by people who probably should not live, and sometimes (military) I could do something about it, and other times (paramedic, ED RN, tactical medic), I could not.  Even St. Mattis opined ".... That said, there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."  I absolutely understand @Ooh-Rah point, I also see @R.Caerbannog point.  For the people who work in the tension, it can be hard to stay above it.


Very well said.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2020)

Apparently with enough violence, the Democrats who run cities change their mind and adjust fire. Mayor Lightfoot now wants looters prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no catch and release, as has been going on.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292886043595640832
Context, Looters shot a security guard last night.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292848370537570304
In Seattle, Vandalizing a Wholefoods


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292737912862199809


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2020)

Seattle PD will have to lay off 100 officers following the current budget cuts.  The Command Staff of SPD also took it in the shorts on their salaries. 

Seattle's first ever black woman police chief faces $100,000 pay cut thanks to Black Lives Matter


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Aug 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently with enough violence, the Democrats who run cities change their mind and adjust fire. Mayor Lightfoot now wants looters prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no catch and release, as has been going on.



Don't hold your breath for Chicago, I'm certain it is just political jockeying.  "We won't accept this" lacks the bite when it has been going on for a while.  I am just growing tired of the posturing, seems like there is just too much of that these days.

The damage and destruction this morning was extensive, it was a shit show getting into the Loop this am.  I am debating sending my wife and daughter to the burbs for a few days again as I did the last time the rioting happened.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seattle PD will have to lay off 100 officers following the current budget cuts.  The Command Staff of SPD also took it in the shorts on their salaries.
> 
> Seattle's first ever black woman police chief faces $100,000 pay cut thanks to Black Lives Matter



I know I can't be the only one to see the irony that Black Lives Matter--BLACK LIVES MATTER--created the circumstances in which the first black female police chief will now be in the 10th percentile of large city police chief salaries....


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I know I can't be the only one to see the irony....


Nope...you're not...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2020)

I'm confused, why aren't they advocating for the disbanding of Antifa?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292843239557537792


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I know I can't be the only one to see the irony that Black Lives Matter--BLACK LIVES MATTER--created the circumstances in which the first black female police chief will now be in the 10th percentile of large city police chief salaries....


Making less then the white Chief who preceded her.


----------



## 757 (Aug 10, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292299567744970753


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently with enough violence, the Democrats who run cities change their mind and adjust fire. Mayor Lightfoot now wants looters prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no catch and release, as has been going on.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292886043595640832
> ...


That Chicago commie definitely lost control of the mob. Nothing like leftist mobs burning, looting, and killing, to redpill a population.

As for Seattle... didn't realize quinoa and vegan gluten-free cookies were staples for today's commie red brigades.  Bezos must be kicking himself, even pandering to the mob he lost a warehouse and now a Whole Foods.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 10, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> *~~edited~~*
> 1998 10 months in *prison** / jail* armed robbery *= FELONY*
> 2002 8 months in *prison / jail* for cocaine         *= FELONY*
> 2004 10 months in *prison / jail* for cocaine       *= FELONY*
> ...



Salient enough for a new meme?

Not saying GF deserved a knee on his neck for 9min, he didn't. Chauvin with his smug shitty little "I'm better than you" grin will get what's coming to him in the courts or later on.

At least 6 hard felonies and probably many more, GF drove, -literally-, himself and his vehicle, into that situation, that day.
We're ALL paying for George Floyd's and Derek Chauvin's mistakes.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 10, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> Salient enough for a new meme?


Sure.  They shot themselves in the feet by their overcommitment to the drawing the worst possible interpretation of the events - and they didn't even need to do any of that to make a case for George Floyd's criminal reputation, much less make up entire facts to serve that purpose.





Rabid Badger said:


> At least 6 hard felonies and probably many more, GF drove, -literally-, himself and his vehicle, into that situation, that day.
> We're ALL paying for George Floyd's and Derek Chauvin's mistakes.


Indeed - such as with memes like that.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 10, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> The article reeked to me of heavy bias in favor of George Floyd, if for nothing other than the tone and the wording.
> 
> But if this is the meme they are referencing:
> 
> ...



Most people who don't work around law enforcement, or have a criminal record do not differentiate between prison and jail, and the list of drugs including meth proved the guy was quite unstable. He had plenty of fentnyl and coke in him huh? Did you watch the body cam video? Clearly high as a kite. 

If the woman said she was pregnant, she was probably pregnant. It's not really a qualifier for armed robbery, which he definitely was a part of. 

Your post illustrates that the point is lost on some people. *Partly false* sounds a lot different than *mostly true*, which is what it should read. A dangerous druggie that was killed after freaking out on police while high as hell.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 10, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> We're ALL paying for George Floyd's and Derek Chauvin's mistakes.


I"m tempted to put this in my signature line.


----------



## AWP (Aug 10, 2020)

@DasBoot and @Hungry_Dog, let's knock off the meme responses unless you want to also provide some context or rebuttal.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2020)

Since someone wanted to be pedantic about Floyd serving his prison sentence in a jail, I did look it up.  And TDCJ does operate several Jails.



			
				Texas Jail Project said:
			
		

> A state jail facility is run by, or under contract to, the Texas Dept of Criminal Justice (TDCJ). A state jail facility is really not a jail. It is actually a minimum security prison facility, although it is not officially called that. There is no one in a state jail facility who is awaiting trial, like in a county jail. Everyone in TDCJ custody is convicted, and serving a sentence.


What is the difference between state jail and county jail in Texas? - Texas Jail Project.

Jail in Texas is for non-violent offenses. Floyd had several violent offenses on his rapsheet.  He most certainly went to prison for those.

In Arizona, for example, the Department of Corrections only has prisons.


----------



## AWP (Aug 11, 2020)

At the end of the day, we vicitmize or demonize the criminal according to our bias while giving everyone, especially the media, a pass for conviction or exoneration without a trial.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2020)

SPD Chief Best has resigned. Sorry, on mobile and for some reason it doesn't want to paste the link.

ETA: Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best retiring following department cuts, protests


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 11, 2020)

Don't watch cable, but this gal has some salient points.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 11, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Your post illustrates that the point is lost on some people. *Partly false* sounds a lot different than *mostly true*, which is what it should read. A dangerous druggie that was killed after freaking out on police while high as hell.


The fact is that there is little room to left to decry the fact that it is partly false, and what seems clear is you are more interested in making sure things sound the way you want to hear them rather than accepting a reasonable description that doesn't fit the particular painting of the events that you have already committed to seeing.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Jail in Texas is for non-violent offenses. Floyd had several violent offenses on his rapsheet.  He most certainly went to prison for those.


I wholeheartedly welcome you to reveal to us all these violent offenses Floyd committed prior to the 2007 aggravated robbery charge that landed him in prison.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 11, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I wholeheartedly welcome you to reveal to us all these violent offenses Floyd committed prior to the 2007 aggravated robbery charge that landed him in prison.



*1998* 10 months in *prison / jail* armed robbery *= FELONY*  = Pretty sure *Armed Robbery* under "_Threat of DEATH IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME YOUR SHIT_" equals violent offense? No?


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 11, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> *1998* 10 months in *prison / jail* armed robbery *= FELONY*  = Pretty sure *Armed Robbery* under "_Threat of DEATH IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME YOUR SHIT_" equals violent offense? No?


1. @ThunderHorse is attempting to prove Floyd went to prison by claiming his previous crimes met Texas' apparently violence threshold for prison time.
2. A link supporting the claim that his crime was or should be treated as a prison-level offense by Texan authorities would probably nullify the need for you to draw attention to your supposition by screaming it in all caps.
3. Your disagreement would be better directed towards Texan authorities if it turns out he was jailed for something you feel met their threshold for prison incarceration.


----------



## AWP (Aug 11, 2020)

Annnnd, I'm going to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to take a deep breath or two before we go sailing off a cliff.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 11, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I wholeheartedly welcome you to reveal to us all these violent offenses Floyd committed prior to the 2007 aggravated robbery charge that landed him in prison.


 
It's all in post #1,639. The last column in the chart has abbreviation for the crime with an (F) or (M) underneath for felony or misdemeanor. One is theft from person, and a few possession with intent to distribute. Felonies so prison, not necessarily violent though I have a hard time thinking felony theft from person is "non-violent". 

My point is that the differentiation between prison or jail is a moot point, just like questioning if the women he robbed was pregnant or not. If she said she was, well she probably was. Arguing against that without evidence to the contrary is an attempt at obfuscation.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 11, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Locksteady said:
> 
> 
> > I wholeheartedly welcome you to reveal to us *all these violent offenses* Floyd committed prior to the 2007 aggravated robbery charge that landed him in prison.
> ...


In short, the post you cited listed no other violent offenses, you contradicted your own initial claim by pointing out that all that was listed were felonies that aren't necessarily violent, and then expected your own inference to pass for the evidence you failed to show. 

And this is before even recognizing that this point is only important for those attempting to work backwards to conclude that Floyd was imprisoned instead of jailed due to passing the violent status threshold for crimes in Texas.





BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> My point is that the differentiation between prison or jail is a moot point, just like questioning if the women he robbed was pregnant or not. If she said she was, well she probably was. Arguing against that without evidence to the contrary is an attempt at obfuscation.


As I've mentioned before, the case people want to make about Floyd's character can easily be accomplished without adding false and maligning features to a situation that already incriminates his reputation by itself.  The extent to which one considers the material claims in the meme to 'matter' doesn't change the level of falseness in the claims, and it is disingenuous to ignore the power of false details in presenting a far different perception of events - particularly when that specific portrait is what some seem committed to maintaining in this discussion.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> In short, the post you cited listed no other violent offenses, you contradicted your own initial claim by pointing out that all that was listed were felonies that aren't necessarily violent, and then expected your own inference to pass for the evidence you failed to show.
> 
> And this is before even recognizing that this point is only important for those attempting to work backwards to conclude that Floyd was imprisoned instead of jailed due to passing the violent status threshold for crimes in Texas.As I've mentioned before, the case people want to make about Floyd's character can easily be accomplished without adding false and maligning features to a situation that already incriminates his reputation by itself.  The extent to which one considers the material claims in the meme to 'matter' doesn't change the level of falseness in the claims, and it is disingenuous to ignore the power of false details in presenting a far different perception of events - particularly when that specific portrait is what some seem committed to maintaining in this discussion.


General question, what state do you currently reside in?  As I've already mentioned, the naming of the facilities is pretty irrelevent.  TCDJ facilities are permanent detention facilities (Post Sentencing) and not temporary detention facilities (Pre-Sentencing). 

If I know what State you're currently in I can illustrate the system for you.  But your pedantry is getting very weird.  Floyd had a violent criminal past as much as he had a petty criminal past.


----------



## AWP (Aug 11, 2020)

Full stop. Someone can either post what he was convicted of and where he spent his time, or this argument goes away. This isn't to protect Floyd, this is a "We don't want Shadowspear to traffic in bad information" post.

"He had a felony, he was in prison." Was he? Seriously. A charge, a conviction, and where you "lived" are different things.

So, his criminal history is no longer conjecture or "the laws state" but what actually happened. Bring that to the fight or stay home.


----------



## 757 (Aug 11, 2020)

Sadly, I don't have access to my Lexis account atm. This, SPN: 01610509, is the closest I could find to an accurate link. In Texas, first degree felonies are 5-99 years depending on the case. Section  29.03. is the Aggravated Robbery section of the penal code for Texas. Floyd seemingly got the minimum of 5 years when he plead guilty.

Since it got brought up earlier, apparently in Texas minor criminals (read two years of less for minor offenses) are housed in state jail facilities whereas more severe criminals (felons) are placed in The Correctional Institutions Division (Texas slang for everything is bigger in our prisons).

I hope this helped move the conversation forward.


----------



## AWP (Aug 11, 2020)

757 said:


> Sadly, I don't have access to my Lexis account atm. This, SPN: 01610509, is the closest I could find to an accurate link. In Texas, first degree felonies are 5-99 years depending on the case. Section  29.03. is the Aggravated Robbery section of the penal code for Texas. Floyd *seemingly *got the minimum of 5 years when he plead guilty.
> 
> Since it got brought up earlier, apparently in Texas minor criminals (read two years of less for minor offenses) are housed in state jail facilities whereas more severe criminals (felons) are placed in The Correctional Institutions Division (Texas slang for everything is bigger in our prisons).
> 
> I hope this helped move the conversation forward.



Not what my last post said. Go do pushups.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 11, 2020)

Wait.....Why are we defending George Floyd's rap sheet? 

I musta woke up in some alternate reality where guys who spend their entire lives not breaking the law and living by the book are now defending a multiple law breaking offender.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Wait.....Why are we defending George Floyd's rap sheet?


I'm thinking it's a 2020 thing...


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 11, 2020)

Heh, she retired before her 100K cut happened...kudos to her for saying....


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 11, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Heh, she retired before her 100K cut happened...kudos to her for saying....
> 
> View attachment 35239


And good luck finding a replacement.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Wait.....Why are we defending George Floyd's rap sheet?
> 
> I musta woke up in some alternate reality where guys who spend their entire lives not breaking the law and living by the book are now defending a multiple law breaking offender.



I don't like the whole idea of "this dude was killed by cops, let's see if he has a criminal history so we can blame his death on him" that has become super common.

Somebody can be a massive piece of shit AND treated like shit/killed by the police.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 11, 2020)

Unfortunately, all the cops in the US are judge by actions of one......this rarely happens in any other profession.......tens of thousands of calls are responded to every day across the US, with no issues and no one cares....

It doesn't matter what Floyd's past was....this was a fuck up and preventable.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I don't like the whole idea of "this dude was killed by cops, let's see if he has a criminal history so we can blame his death on him" that has become super common.
> 
> Somebody can be a massive piece of shit AND treated like shit/killed by the police.


A lot of Fentanyl in his system. Complained he couldn't breath before being placed on ground. Was an APPROVED restraining technique. Who killed who?


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> A lot of Fentanyl in his system. Complained he couldn't breath before being placed on ground. Was an APPROVED restraining technique. Who killed who?




You're also leaving out the few minutes where Floyd is clearly unresponsive yet is still being held to the ground. After stating that he wasn't able to breathe multiple times. Don't really see the point you're trying to make here at the end of the day Chauvin still technically killed Floyd, now whether it meets the charges set by the AG is an entirely different discussion.


----------



## medicchick (Aug 11, 2020)

Bypass said:


> A lot of Fentanyl in his system. Complained he couldn't breath before being placed on ground. Was an APPROVED restraining technique. Who killed who?


A tragic chain of events all the way around that no one saw happening when they woke up. I wouldn't say there were any compleatly innocent parties.


----------



## AWP (Aug 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> And good luck finding a replacement.



If it is a political appointee, think of how "progressive" they will run the department.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 12, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> You're also leaving out the few minutes where Floyd is clearly unresponsive yet is still being held to the ground. After stating that he wasn't able to breathe multiple times. Don't really see the point you're trying to make here at the end of the day Chauvin still technically killed Floyd, now whether it meets the charges set by the AG is an entirely different discussion.


My point was supposed to be Floyd was also responsible in a way. Had he not been on fentanyl he probably wouldn't have died according to everything I've heard and what little I have read. BUT I agree having a knee on his neck didn't help. Had it been a sober individual and not someone suffering from a fentanyl overdose like you or me then we probably wouldn't have died BUT we also wouldn't have freaked out and lost our shit when the officers tried to place us under arrest. I'm not completely defending or completely accusing anyone. I'm just saying it was a bad chain of events that could have been avoided if Floyd had stayed home that day where he could have died on his own in his own home of a fentanyl overdose.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 12, 2020)

And now Toronto, even with a rise in violent gang related crime.  There was even 2 guy's arrested, after they threatened people on a beach with chainsaw's.  I'd like to see a social worker deal with that.  lol

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-police-reform-1.5681916


Bloodied men detained at Toronto beach menaced people with chainsaws: eyewitness


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 12, 2020)

George Floyd ver 2.0 wasn't too different from George Floyd ver 1.0.
Passing a fake 20 was going to get him tossed back in jail.
People here may think a fake 20 is no big deal, but the Secret Service disagrees.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 12, 2020)

I just read his autopsy (yeah, I'm bored).  No medical evidence that the neck thing caused death; in fact, there is no medical evidence that the cop's actions caused the death.  There are a lot of different drugs on board.  To be fair, a lot of notes about bruising/contusions/abrasions on his shoulders and torso; a few minor on his cheeks and nose.

Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.

For your viewing pleasure:

Autopsy 2020-3700 Floyd | Coronary Circulation | Tetrahydrocannabinol


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 12, 2020)

medicchick said:


> I wouldn't say there were any compleatly innocent parties.


I don't know.  I watched the full body can footage from both officers. I don't really see any significant issues with their actions.  Just a tragic outcome.

The following point is moot but, keep in mind, Floyd's death was not by asphyxiation and that was never mentioned in the autopsy report.  Death was due to "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." (Edit: @Devildoc posted a link to the autopsy report above, it was also posted earlier in this thread).  

We'll never know the answer to this but given Floyd's complaints about breathing and his chest while the officers were still trying to get him into the squad, if Chauvin had restrained him some other way - across the shoulders, simply held his head down/immobilized his head  or something - would Floyd have still died? I'm not sure it can be said with certainty that he wouldn't have.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 12, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I just read his autopsy (yeah, I'm bored).  No medical evidence that the neck thing caused death; in fact, there is no medical evidence that the cop's actions caused the death.  There are a lot of different drugs on board.  To be fair, a lot of notes about bruising/contusions/abrasions on his shoulders and torso; a few minor on his cheeks and nose.
> 
> Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.
> 
> ...


You and I are on the same wavelength today.  I just posted something very similar.


----------



## NikNifSik (Aug 12, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I just read his autopsy (yeah, I'm bored).  No medical evidence that the neck thing caused death; in fact, there is no medical evidence that the cop's actions caused the death.  There are a lot of different drugs on board.  To be fair, a lot of notes about bruising/contusions/abrasions on his shoulders and torso; a few minor on his cheeks and nose.
> 
> Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.
> 
> ...



This is one of those super tough situations.  Floyd clearly was no angel, the guy had lots of reasons to not like him.  Chauvin probably had a justified case for all of his actions until somewhere during the 8-minutes of kneeling.  At some point, whether the guy (Floyd) can breathe/talk/move, Chauvin should have had enough sense to attempt to get him back in the car.  I have a hard time believing he didn't feel a physical difference from Floyd from when he was alive to when he passed. I fully support our cops and the job they do, but all Americans deserve their day in court, and Floyd was not given his. We have cops to enforce laws and ask them to do heroic actions day in and day out, but we don't ask/want them to judge and implement punishments.


----------



## NikNifSik (Aug 12, 2020)

All of that said, I don't think this was racially motivated. I also don't think it is a result of a racist system. I think we have a culture problem that creates resentment towards our brothers in blue and until that is fixed, we are always going to have hostile criminals who cops need to take actions against. When situations are continually escalated by aggressive citizens, these situations will continue to happen. A little respect for the law and those that serve it would go a long way in minimizing these incidents.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 12, 2020)

NikNifSik said:


> This is one of those super tough situations.  Floyd clearly was no angel, the guy had lots of reasons to not like him.  Chauvin probably had a justified case for all of his actions until somewhere during the 8-minutes of kneeling.  At some point, whether the guy (Floyd) can breathe/talk/move, Chauvin should have had enough sense to attempt to get him back in the car.  I have a hard time believing he didn't feel a physical difference from Floyd from when he was alive to when he passed. I fully support our cops and the job they do, but all Americans deserve their day in court, and Floyd was not given his. We have cops to enforce laws and ask them to do heroic actions day in and day out, but we don't ask/want them to judge and implement punishments.



Totally agree, super tough.  At the end of the day I don't care what Floyd's history is, just interested in the link between him, his death, and Chauvin's actions, and creating (or dispelling) a fatal sequence of events.  I also agree about giving people (to include Chauvin) their day in court; however, I am afraid that people have already made up their minds.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 12, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Totally agree, super tough.  At the end of the day I don't care what Floyd's history is, just interested in the link between him, his death, and Chauvin's actions, and creating (or dispelling) a fatal sequence of events.  I also agree about giving people (to include Chauvin) their day in court; however, I am afraid that people have already made up their minds.


Concur. The officers had no idea who he was or anything about his history at any point during their interaction. So, it's all noise and  irrelevant to the specific situation.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> My point was supposed to be Floyd was also responsible in a way. Had he not been on fentanyl he probably wouldn't have died according to everything I've heard and what little I have read. BUT I agree having a knee on his neck didn't help. Had it been a sober individual and not someone suffering from a fentanyl overdose like you or me then we probably wouldn't have died BUT we also wouldn't have freaked out and lost our shit when the officers tried to place us under arrest. I'm not completely defending or completely accusing anyone. I'm just saying it was a bad chain of events that could have been avoided if Floyd had stayed home that day where he could have died on his own in his own home of a fentanyl overdose.



Gotcha, I was misunderstanding what you were saying. My bad.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> A lot of Fentanyl in his system. Complained he couldn't breath before being placed on ground. Was an APPROVED restraining technique. Who killed who?



What is a lot of fentanyl? A lot of fentanyl for you, for an opiate naive person, for a person in chronic pain, a cancer patient, an Afghan who has been smoking opium their entire adult life? All of those have different amounts that would be considered a lot...Further Floyd may have been prescribed his opiates for pain, I do not know.  A serum level of 11ng seems high, but often postmortem serum levels are unreliably high due to redistribution. 

“Blood or serum concentrations of fentanyl do not correlate with doses either antemortem or postmortem. Moreover, fentanyl con- centrations in postmortem peripheral blood samples can be con- siderably higher than concentrations of in vivo serum samples and therefore could not be compared. Due to the pharmacokin- etics of fentanyl and its high partitioning into peripheral tissues and adipose tissue, considerable postmortem redistribution can occur.”

https://watermark.silverchair.com/b...DjyMQCWIno34SerpHMqNG8hYGYvby_IyFF_v6PyEI1NCw


Just pointing out that the amount in the system is different from a therapeutic amount. People walk around, drive, and lead normal lives while taking opiates of all kinds of strengths.



Bypass said:


> . I'm just saying it was a bad chain of events that could have been avoided if Floyd had stayed home that day where he could have died on his own in his own home of a fentanyl overdose.



Do you think he died of a fentanyl overdose? This has zero indications of that. He was up and moving around. I have treated a lot of overdose patients, and this doesn’t look like any of them I have ever seen.  I didn’t see anything in the autopsy about needle marks, so he may have been using it in another way, but if it was an overdose he would never have needed to be restrained, as he would have been lethargic, to the point of being concerning.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 12, 2020)

@Dvr55119 , according to the autopsy, he also was positive for sickle cell trait, though I don't know if he had active disease. As you and I well know, those guys take enough narcotic to kill most people. 

According to the report the man was a walking pharmacy for illicit substances, though being an habitual user, you know he had a very high tolerance.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 12, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @Dvr55119 , according to the autopsy, he also was positive for sickle cell trait, though I don't know if he had active disease. As you and I well know, those guys take enough narcotic to kill most people.
> 
> According to the report the man was a walking pharmacy for illicit substances, though being an habitual user, you know he had a very high tolerance.



I saw that about sickle cell. I almost included it, but didn’t know if he had had a crisis.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> What is a lot of fentanyl? A lot of fentanyl for you, for an opiate naive person, for a person in chronic pain, a cancer patient, an Afghan who has been smoking opium their entire adult life? All of those have different amounts that would be considered a lot...Further Floyd may have been prescribed his opiates for pain, I do not know.  A serum level of 11ng seems high, but often postmortem serum levels are unreliably high due to redistribution.
> 
> “Blood or serum concentrations of fentanyl do not correlate with doses either antemortem or postmortem. Moreover, fentanyl con- centrations in postmortem peripheral blood samples can be con- siderably higher than concentrations of in vivo serum samples and therefore could not be compared. Due to the pharmacokin- etics of fentanyl and its high partitioning into peripheral tissues and adipose tissue, considerable postmortem redistribution can occur.”
> 
> ...


I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV but take it with a grain of salt that is simply what I heard.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Post



Are we also still prescribing Methamphetamines to patients?

Here's the Full Panel from the link @Devildoc  posted.  I don't get why you're being so combative.  (Or maybe that's my bias, since that's been your language choice, or we're all just fucking tired)

1.  Fentanyl 11ng/ml
2. Norfentanyl 5.6ng/ml
3. 4-ANP 0.65ng/ml
4. Methamphetime 19ng/ml
5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/ml; Delta-9  Carboxy THC 42ng/ml; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/ml
6. Cotinine Positive
7. Caffeine Positive

So in your professional opinion, especially after seeing the body cam footage would you say he was sober or high as a stunt kite?

Gonna need to a scrip for all of that.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 12, 2020)

@ThunderHorse , I'm not going to speak for @Dvr55119 , but you can get prescriptions for methamphetamines.

I don't know if he was as high as a kite, or is opioid naive given his medical history but I think it's absolutely rational to think that having all of that on board contributed to a state of mind such as to resist and be combative.  

Regarding sickle cell, if he actually had the disease and not just carrying the trait, it's not unheard of that these people get six, eight milligrams of Dilaudid and 250 micrograms of fentanyl in one sitting which budges their pain from a 10 to a 7. In non-medical speak, with you and I, we'd go  into respiratory arrest with that.

Personally, I absolutely think it's a contributing factor to his combativeness.


----------



## Dame (Aug 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Are we also still prescribing Methamphetamines to patients?


Yes. For hospice patients.
Other than that I don't know.


----------



## Dame (Aug 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> If it is a political appointee, think of how "progressive" they will run the department.


He/She would have to fire his/herself.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> If it is a political appointee, think of how "progressive" they will run the department.


I, for one, am pumped. <$> Batt out here gonna get bored on quarantine and start rolling deep ‘wishing a MF would’. Might be fun.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 12, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And now Toronto, even with a rise in violent gang related crime.  There was even 2 guy's arrested, after they threatened people on a beach with chainsaw's.  I'd like to see a social worker deal with that.  lol
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tory-police-reform-1.5681916
> 
> ...



So how did they not get shot?


----------



## medicchick (Aug 12, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I, for one, am pumped. <$> Batt out here gonna get bored on quarantine and start rolling deep ‘wishing a MF would’. Might be fun.


I've been waiting...


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 12, 2020)

On initial contact with the officers, Floyd's behavior can pretty easily be described as paranoid and erratic. Maybe that'd his personality, I don't know, but the officers recognized this as well and immediately began to question if he was on something -  PCP or other.  They mention his eyes shaking as they try to determine the issue.  

At one point, one of the officers also wondered aloud about "excited delirium". That is a controversial subject.  It's not a recognized medical condition but some believe it to be true.  I don't know much about it, maybe some of you here are familiar with it?  I 'd like to know more about it because I do find it strange that he complained about breathing and his chest prior to any restraint on the ground.  Even stranger when everyone has grasped onto the breathing comment, when asphyxiation was not the cause of death.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Are we also still prescribing Methamphetamines to patients?





Dame said:


> Yes. For hospice patients.
> Other than that I don't know.


ADHD and obesity.  As mentioned earlier his blood levels barely even registered into the lowest detectable range for legal therapeutic use.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So how did they not get shot?



By the time the cops got there, they were probably back to the homeless camp they came from. Not every arrest here requires shots fired.


----------



## compforce (Aug 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> At one point, one of the officers also wondered aloud about "excited delirium". That is a controversial subject.  It's not a recognized medical condition but some believe it to be true.  I don't know much about it, maybe some of you here are familiar with it?  I 'd like to know more about it because I do find it strange that he complained about breathing and his chest prior to any restraint on the ground.  Even stranger when everyone has grasped onto the breathing comment, when asphyxiation was not the cause of death.



Officer Tatum talks about it.  Note, he's a conservative voice so there is some possible bias, but he tends to focus on the facts.


----------



## Andoni (Aug 12, 2020)

Here is what I have found from Harris County Clerk's Office. It took some looking to find original source documents.



AWP said:


> post what he was convicted of



04/03/2009    JUDGMENT    GUILTY PLEA-NO JURY 04/03/09
04/03/2009    JUDG OFFENSE    AGG ROBBERY-DEADLY WPN LEVEL F1 04/03/09



AWP said:


> and where he spent his time,



Sentenced to TDC 5 years, starting 04/03/09.

Oc/Held 305 days in Court 337 (Harris County) Jail before pleading guilty to AGG ROBBERY-DEADLY WPN LEVEL F1 between 06/02/08 and 04/03/09.


Here is the link to the court cases for 9 Texas cases in Harris County.

(https://www.hcdistrictclerk.com/eDocs/Public/Search.aspx)

I pulled them yesterday and put them in this PDF.

If I missed the records from the clerk's office in Texas somewhere else in the thread, I apologize.

I highlighted the plea, conviction and sentence, and was going to just list them out, but there are so many court events, it just seemed like way too much information.

*The green highlight on the last case was when I was figuring out whether he was in jail, released on PR, bonded out, and why.

I haven't really come to a conclusion on how I feel or what I think* about these series of events/interesting time in American history, but I sure am glad for SS.  I think you folks are the bees knees.

*Edited to add: Systemic oppression is horrific. So is crime and violence. So is racism. I'm a big fan of Service. The intersection of these things I'm not so sure about.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 12, 2020)

Guys, this doesn't matter....TDC Prison, State Jail, County jail.....doesn't matter.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 12, 2020)

compforce said:


> Officer Tatum talks about it.  Note, he's a conservative voice so there is some possible bias, but he tends to focus on the facts.


Good video. Thanks for posting.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 12, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Guys, this doesn't matter....TDC Prison, State Jail, County jail.....doesn't matter.


Can you elaborate on why It doesn’t matter? I really want to agree with you but I’m always wary of high fiving someone without knowing what I’m high fiving.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 12, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Guys, this doesn't matter....TDC Prison, State Jail, County jail.....doesn't matter.



Why, because they were found guilty in a court of law by a judge and/or jury of their peers in order to be sentenced and incarcerated?


----------



## Bypass (Aug 12, 2020)

Remember everyone is entitled to their opinions. Let's not get argumentative. Facts, opinions, and the voices in your head are fine. Nobody here is responsible for Floyds death. We are all just stating opinions.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 13, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Guys, this doesn't matter....TDC Prison, State Jail, County jail.....doesn't matter.


If that were indeed the case (at least in others' minds), you'd wouldn't find posters spending two of the last four pages performing all kinds of logical somersaults to hamfistedly reframe the supposedly trivial 'jail' corrections to the meme back into nonexistent prison sentences.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 13, 2020)

compforce said:


> Officer Tatum talks about it.  Note, he's a conservative voice so there is some possible bias, but he tends to focus on the facts.



Excellent video and NOT conservative AT ALL if you ignore the shirt and hat. The lawyers in the case for each officer will mosdef run with every sentence he said for months on end.


Andoni said:


> Here is what I have found from Harris County Clerk's Office. It took some looking to find original source documents



I've had to inquire with the TDC in Harris County multiple times about my daughters ex-boyfriend and the father of my Grandson. He served TIME in the TDC for MULTIPLE felonies over the last decade, AG ASSAULT, AG ASSAULT FELON W/FIREARM, DIST OF CONTR SUBST, = *etc...etc*...HE KEEPS GETTING OUT.
The "gangstas" in Travis County and Harris County surrounding Houston Tx call the TDC - *SCHOOL*.


----------



## AWP (Aug 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Here's the Full Panel from the link @Devildoc  posted.  I don't get why you're being so combative.  (Or maybe that's my bias, since that's been your language choice, or we're all just fucking tired)



Let's go with we're all just fucking tired. His post isn't combative. No more, no less. It's just a post.

Back to the show!


----------



## Andoni (Aug 13, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> and the father of my Grandson


You're Grandson is really lucky to have you.

Edited to add: Thats crazy about the multiple felonies/keep getting out. I was looking at habitual offender laws in Louisiana, and that guy would have been done on the 4th conviction. They've got the opposite problem in Louisiana.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 13, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I just read his autopsy (yeah, I'm bored).  No medical evidence that the neck thing caused death; in fact, there is no medical evidence that the cop's actions caused the death.  There are a lot of different drugs on board.  To be fair, a lot of notes about bruising/contusions/abrasions on his shoulders and torso; a few minor on his cheeks and nose.
> 
> Any potential jurors in the SPAM area have already made up their minds, so it's not going to matter.
> 
> ...



Ok. So this was the initial autopsy report by the County. And that's County not Parish or Borough, because those distinctions matter. 

Now a second private autopsy was performed, and when those results were released people went APE SHIT, because that's when the death by asphyxiation from restraint was announced, which was absent from the County's record. That was one of the big sparks that caused even more uproar, because it looked like a police cover up. There was another big issue with the case I can't recall.

So, in this trial, I have no idea, but are they going to be able to use both autopsies, the defense and the prosecution??? I used to watch CSI, but I've also been watching Project Innocence and docs about junk science in court cases. I'd like to see how they determine asphyxiation medically, yet missed it on the first go round.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 13, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Ok. So this was the initial autopsy report by the County. And that's County not Parish or Borough, because those distinctions matter.
> 
> Now a second private autopsy was performed, and when those results were released people went APE SHIT, because that's when the death by asphyxiation from restraint was announced, which was absent from the County's record. That was one of the big sparks that caused even more uproar, because it looked like a police cover up. There was another big issue with the case I can't recall.
> 
> So, in this trial, I have no idea, but are they going to be able to use both autopsies, the defense and the prosecution??? I used to watch CSI, but I've also been watching Project Innocence and docs about junk science in court cases. I'd like to see how they determine asphyxiation medically, yet missed it on the first go round.



Spit-balling here, but maybe they didn't miss it?  Maybe they had a conclusion, and found evidence to support the conclusion?  Could be true for either side.

The defense will use the state's autopsy (county med examiners work for the state); the prosecution will use the private one, and each will have expert witnesses to attempt to destroy the credibility of the other.  The prosecution is going for murder, and the defense will go for reasonable doubt.


----------



## AWP (Aug 13, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The prosecution is going for murder, and the defense will go for reasonable doubt.



And I'm going for a shitshow of a trial. Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman...they won't hold a candle to that madness.

----

Conpiracy theory time (no, I don't believe this), but the riots are orchestrated by people who would be implicated in the Epstein sex scandal. If we focus on BLM and not burning cities, we won't notice when Maxwell doesn't kill herself.

ETA typo fix


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> Conpiracy theory time (no, I don't believe this), but the riots are orchestrated by people who would be implicated in the Epstein sex scandal. If we focus on BLM and out burning cities, we won't notice when Maxwell doesn't kill herself.


I hate you.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 13, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Ok. So this was the initial autopsy report by the County. And that's County not Parish or Borough, because those distinctions matter.
> 
> Now a second private autopsy was performed, and when those results were released people went APE SHIT, because that's when the death by asphyxiation from restraint was announced, which was absent from the County's record. That was one of the big sparks that caused even more uproar, because it looked like a police cover up. There was another big issue with the case I can't recall.
> 
> So, in this trial, I have no idea, but are they going to be able to use both autopsies, the defense and the prosecution??? I used to watch CSI, but I've also been watching Project Innocence and docs about junk science in court cases. I'd like to see how they determine asphyxiation medically, yet missed it on the first go round.


To be clear, there is only one official autopsy and it was performed by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.  The HC ME released both a preliminary and a final report.  The final report was posted a couple times earlier in this thread.  

The Hennepin County ME is independent body that answers only to the county board.  Dr. Andrew Baker, the ME, is reportedly well respected and recently earned overwhelming support from the board during his reappointment, even after Floyd's results were released.  The National Association of Medical Examiners, of which Baker has served as president, released a statement shortly after his findings were made public in which they stated, in part, he is “one of the most highly regarded and esteemed forensic pathologists in the United States ... known for his expertise and integrity.”

Separately, Floyd's family attorney commissioned to have their own private, independent autopsy performed.  This was done after the preliminary autopsy report from the country was released.  They selected the examiner and hired a guy that also performed a private autopsy on Eric Garner. They released their findings just prior to the Hennepin County ME's final report.  While some may continue to reference this privately funded report, perhaps even the prosecution will make reference it during the trial (they are under no obligation to introduce it during the trial)  it cannot be considered neutral or unbiased.  Although, interestingly, if introduced to evidence, some argue it may provide ammunition for the defense:
Floyd family autopsy could help accused policeman's defense, legal experts say

Neither report had any impact on rioting or protests; people went ape shit as soon as the video started circulating the night Floyd died.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> And I'm going for a shitshow of a trial. Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman...they won't hold a candle to that madness.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...



You forgot to mention George Soros.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> If we focus on *BLM* and not burning cities, we won't notice when Maxwell doesn't kill herself.


aaaaaaand. DAMN. _We_ _ALMOST_ _FORGOT_ ~~~ BLM WASN'T burning cities. Thanks.
I'll go ahead and say it, Ghislaine Maxwell DID NOT kill herself.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 13, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Can you elaborate on why It doesn’t matter? I really want to agree with you but I’m always wary of high fiving someone without knowing what I’m high fiving.



It doesn't matter how much of a piece of crap the subject is, the person died in police custody in a controversial way, or believed controversial way.  It matters to people like all of us, who look at the facts, but the people who are enraged about this and the politicians using it for political power....it never matters.

The only time law enforcement has survived this initial level of outcry, is when there is video of the incident and the video shows the subject doing something the public can't argue....for example, body camera shows the subject clearly pointing a gun at an officer and officer shoots.....and even then....fify


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To be clear, there is only one official autopsy and it was performed by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.  The HC ME released both a preliminary and a final report.  The final report was posted a couple times earlier in this thread.
> 
> The Hennepin County ME is independent body that answers only to the county board.  Dr. Andrew Baker, the ME, is reportedly well respected and recently earned overwhelming support from the board during his reappointment, even after Floyd's results were released.  The National Association of Medical Examiners, of which Baker has served as president, released a statement shortly after his findings were made public in which they stated, in part, he is “one of the most highly regarded and esteemed forensic pathologists in the United States ... known for his expertise and integrity.”
> 
> ...



So legally, the only autopsy that matters is the County one? Is that set in legal precedent or what? Because somebody's got to be wrong. They both explicitly state different outcomes.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 13, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Ok. So this was the initial autopsy report by the County. And that's County not Parish or Borough, because those distinctions matter.
> 
> Now a second private autopsy was performed, and when those results were released people went APE SHIT, because that's when the death by asphyxiation from restraint was announced, which was absent from the County's record. That was one of the big sparks that caused even more uproar, because it looked like a police cover up. There was another big issue with the case I can't recall.
> 
> So, in this trial, I have no idea, but are they going to be able to use both autopsies, the defense and the prosecution??? I used to watch CSI, but I've also been watching Project Innocence and docs about junk science in court cases. I'd like to see how they determine asphyxiation medically, yet missed it on the first go round.



There aren't parishes or boroughs in Minnesota. Legally speaking 48 states divide into counties. Only Alaska has Boroughs which are the equivalent of Counties and only Louisiana has Parishes which are also the equivalent of counties. Most municipalities do not have separate ME's from the county. Minneapolis doesn't have a separate Medical Examiner and the Medical Examiner who has jurisdiction over Minneapolis is the Hennepin County ME.

There was a private autopsy done, which is where people probably went apeshit.  But it's gonna get real funky if the prosecution team admits that into evidence because it is not evidence of the State.

ETA: Back to the actual riots.  The Cook County DA, who failed to prosecute Jussi Smollett, Kim Foxx is refusing to prosecute any rioters.  Something along the lines of the presumption of dismissal.  The Chicago FOP President has previously written letters to the POTUS requesting help.  This week he delivered a letter to the US Attorney for Chicago John Lausch requesting help.

Chicago looters must be prosecuted for actions, FOP president says; Catanzara appeals to feds, saying Foxx too soft on crime

The DA for Multnomah County (Portland, Ore) Mike Schmidt is basically doing the same shit and just releasing guys the next day.

Multnomah County DA will not prosecute cases where most serious charge is city ordinance violation

Charges that will be dropped include:



> Interfering with a peace officer or parole and probation officer
> Disorderly conduct in the second degree
> Criminal trespass in the first and second degree
> Escape in the third degree
> ...


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Are we also still prescribing Methamphetamines to patients?
> 
> Here's the Full Panel from the link @Devildoc  posted.  I don't get why you're being so combative.  (Or maybe that's my bias, since that's been your language choice, or we're all just fucking tired)
> 
> ...



Amphetamines are regularly prescribed to patients for a wide variety of issues, as was pointed out by others. 

I already posted a link to a study that explains how the post-mortem levels of fentanyl and norfentanyl are not correlated to doses, or therapeutic levels of drug dosing. So the 11ng/ml is likely not indicative of the amount of fentanyl in the patients system at the time of his death. The levels for amphetamine were below what would be considered a therapeutic dose in medicine, so I do not believe he was actively very high on amphetamines either. 

All I was bringing up was that it is extremely unlikely that Floyd OD'd on narcotics. That isn't what the medical examiner found, nor do his actions prior to his death support the claim. The levels in his system for all of the drugs apart from marijuana were low.  I do doubt that he had a script for any kind of amphetamine, given his heart failure (a disease), but crazier things have happened. The other drugs all could have been prescribed or are legal (marijuana in Minnesota, Fentanyl in various doses and routes of administration, nicotine, and caffeine). I don't have access to his medical records, but I do not know if anyone does/should. Jumping to conclusions about a persons actions, intentions or background based off a metabolite study that shows things that I can find in the screenings of some of my best friends who are former SOF (medical marijuana, amphetamines (adderal) and opiates, all or most of which is prescribed by the VA) is not a good way to go about this discussion in my personal opinion. 

My professional opinion is that he did not look like a patient OD'ing. That was the claim I addressed.  I'm not going to speculate on whether he was subjectively acting high as a stunt kite, but the levels in his system do not indicate that he objectively was as high as a stunt kite. 

The medical examiner did rule this a homicide did they not? Are they in the habit of ruling overdoses homicides?


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 13, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> So legally, the only autopsy that matters is the County one? Is that set in legal precedent or what? Because somebody's got to be wrong. They both explicitly state different outcomes.


There is only one official autopsy which notes the cause of death and is denoted on the death certificate.  In this case, that is the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. 

People can always request to have an independent autopsy at their own expense.  They may do so for a variety of reasons.  In this case, I expect it was primarily done for a couple reasons:
1.  The family and their attorney didn't like the MEs results; they likely want someone who will provide a result that aligns with their views.
2.  They want to use their own results in a civil suit that is sure to follow

Bottom line: There is only ONE official autopsy.  It's really the only one that really matters and is likely the only one to be entered as evidence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The family and their attorney didn't like the MEs results; they likely want someone who will provide a result that aligns with their views.


The family had requested their own autopsy prior to the release of the ME.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The family had requested their own autopsy prior to the release of the ME.


I believe they requested it after the preliminary report was released, but prior to the final report.
Family of George Floyd seeks independent autopsy


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 13, 2020)

Austin City Council votes to cut the Austin PD budget by 150 Million.

Austin City Council just voted to cut $150 million from its police department


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There aren't parishes or boroughs in Minnesota. Legally speaking 48 states divide into counties. Only Alaska has Boroughs which are the equivalent of Counties and only Louisiana has Parishes which are also the equivalent of counties. Most municipalities do not have separate ME's from the county. Minneapolis doesn't have a separate Medical Examiner and the Medical Examiner who has jurisdiction over Minneapolis is the Hennepin County ME.



The county, parish, borough distinction was a joke because we were arguing over the meaning of words earlier.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 14, 2020)

Billboard in Boise. Note the burning police car, rainbow buildings, Marxist message, and raised fist iconography. Floyd is a smokescreen and a distraction. The board still discussing/arguing the fine details of a dead deviant goes to show how well this smokescreen has worked.

Food for thought.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Austin City Council votes to cut the Austin PD budget by 150 Million.
> 
> Austin City Council just voted to cut $150 million from its police department


No surprise. Austin has had a deluge of of west coast liberals flood the area and slowly turn the city into a liberal tech center hell hole. Here's hoping the Lone Star spirit curb stomps the useful idiots trying to radically change Texas.


----------



## AWP (Aug 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Billboard in Boise. Note the burning police car, rainbow buildings, Marxist message, and raised fist iconography. Floyd is a smokescreen and a distraction. The board still discussing/arguing the fine details of a dead deviant goes to show how well this smokescreen has worked.
> 
> Food for thought.
> View attachment 35277



It gets better:

"By Any Means Necessary": New Boise billboard touts Black, Brown contributions to America



> "I think the message is very provocative *but isn’t so extreme as to provoke violence*.”



A burning police car...but doesn't provoke violence?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 14, 2020)

AWP said:


> It gets better:
> 
> "By Any Means Necessary": New Boise billboard touts Black, Brown contributions to America
> 
> ...


Yep. Truth is stranger than fiction. 'Race' has supplanted 'workers rights' in the Marxist's propaganda toolkit. Useful idiots, the lot of them.


----------



## Dame (Aug 14, 2020)

Aaaand, Seattle ain't done yet.
Seattle BLM protesters demand white people ‘give up’ their homes


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 14, 2020)

Dame said:


> Aaaand, Seattle ain't done yet.
> Seattle BLM protesters demand white people ‘give up’ their homes


And the AG wonders why most county sheriffs will not enforce gun control laws in Washington...


----------



## medicchick (Aug 14, 2020)

State police pull troopers out of Portland protest coverage, return them to regular assignments



> State police committed to two weeks “and that two weeks ended today,” said spokesman Capt. Timothy R. Fox.
> 
> “We’re in a county that’s not going to prosecute this criminal behavior,” Fox added.



Heehaw...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 14, 2020)

medicchick said:


> State police pull troopers out of Portland protest coverage, return them to regular assignments
> 
> 
> 
> Heehaw...


Yeah, so sounds like the governor never planned to uphold this "peace agreement" or DPS is like: people go to jail or we leave.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 14, 2020)

I can see where you are putting your troops in the line of fire, they do their job, make arrests......and local DA releases them.....fuck that, State guys made the right decision.

Burn your own city down Portland.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 15, 2020)




----------



## SaintKP (Aug 15, 2020)

Pretty solid article in regards to Seattle, Chief Best, and the the "demonstrators" that are clearly not part of BLM and how one of the council members is clearly in support of overthrowing the current socio-economic structure of not only the city but country at large.



Police chief’s decision to quit may have just saved Seattle from itself


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 15, 2020)

isn't she a member of the Socialist Alternative party?

EDIT: just looked her up, yep...first socialist voted into office. " She was the first _socialist_ to win a citywide election in Seattle since Anna Louise Strong was elected to the school board in 1916. "

I had no idea how screwed up the NW is.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 15, 2020)

SEATTLE IS A HELLISH POST-MARXIST REVOLUTION.

Kidding. It’s fine except for about 4 blocks and some organized protests. And everyone there- even the ‘woke’ ones- aren’t what the MSM (remember, kids, Faux News and One Atrocious News Network are still MSM) would lead you to believe.

And the seafood hasn’t skipped a beat!

ETA- all y’all talking about how the news has people brainwashed and are posting news about where you aren’t? Have a beer and some oysters. Put your phone down. It’ll do wonders.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> SEATTLE IS A HELLISH POST-MARXIST REVOLUTION.
> 
> Kidding. It’s fine except for about 4 blocks and some organized protests. And everyone there- even the ‘woke’ ones- aren’t what the MSM (remember, kids, Faux News and One Atrocious News Network are still MSM) would lead you to believe.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty certain oysters will make your testicles soft and squishy.  So, hard pass. But, I'm having dinner out at Clint Eastwood's Mission Ranch restaurant tonight.  I'll have a giant steak in your honor to counter those oysters! 😁

As for the beer... Cheers, brother! 🍻


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> ETA- all y’all talking about how the news has people brainwashed and are posting news about where you aren’t? Have a beer and some oysters. Put your phone down. It’ll do wonders.


I love you and I love posts like this.

#perspective


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I'm pretty certain oysters will make your testicles soft and squishy.  So, hard pass. But, I'm having dinner out at Clint Eastwood's Mission Ranch restaurant tonight.  I'll have a giant steak in your honor to counter those oysters! 😁
> 
> As for the beer... Cheers, brother! 🍻


I need the oysters. They keep me in your level. 😎


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I need the oysters. They keep me in your level. 😎


This was a joke and I hope you’re well man.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> SEATTLE IS A HELLISH POST-MARXIST REVOLUTION.
> 
> Kidding. It’s fine except for about 4 blocks and some organized protests. And everyone there- even the ‘woke’ ones- aren’t what the MSM (remember, kids, Faux News and One Atrocious News Network are still MSM) would lead you to believe.
> 
> ...


Seattle is a great place that is being destroyed from the inside out.  The Seafood is ridiculous though.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seattle is a great place that is being destroyed from the inside out.  The Seafood is ridiculous though.


Disagree with everything but the seafood.

To believe what you said is to believe that there are actual Americans destroying it willingly. Maliciously.

I didn’t see that today. I havent seen it in Portland, either. Or olympia. But I keep hearing how bad it is.

Exactly like the board shakes out here, real America does so. Some are more left, some are more right. Some are dicks. Some are great.

But. We are all Americans. Don’t forget that. Even if they’re being fucking stupid- it’s America.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 15, 2020)

But are they "Americans".  Those in the Black Bloc purely do not want to be a part of America.  The CHAZ? Not America.  Portland at night? Not America.  But I'm about to smash a Mississippi Mud pie from chef Tamara and watch a Rugby movie.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> But are they "Americans".  Those in the Black Bloc purely do not want to be a part of America.  The CHAZ? Not America.  Portland at night? Not America.  But I'm about to smash a Mississippi Mud pie from chef Tamara and watch a Rugby movie.


Gonna get real weird, here, but yeah. They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited. Whatever.

So, like anything else in the world, Americans come first. I’m not willing to write other Americans off without a cursory attempt to actually engage with them.

I hope you’re also gonna have a 🥃 with that meal and I hope you’re well.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> This was a joke and I hope you’re well man.


Of course.  Nothing but love here.

But, I ordered some bread pudding just to be safe...


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Of course.  Nothing but love here.
> 
> But, I ordered some bread pudding just to be safe...View attachment 35311


Approved. Continue.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 16, 2020)

Dame said:


> Aaaand, Seattle ain't done yet.
> Seattle BLM protesters demand white people ‘give up’ their homes



Goes to show that the mob will never be satisfied. The progressives do not want suburban sprawl, yet have problems "gentrifying" inner city neighborhoods and fixing them up.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Disagree with everything but the seafood.
> 
> To believe what you said is to believe that there are actual Americans destroying it willingly. Maliciously.
> 
> ...




Next time you want to see.... well anything, in Portland, lemme know mang. I be out here and you can come bomb around in Kilo.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Gonna get real weird, here, but yeah. They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited. Whatever.
> 
> So, like anything else in the world, Americans come first. I’m not willing to write other Americans off without a cursory attempt to actually engage with them.
> 
> I hope you’re also gonna have a 🥃 with that meal and I hope you’re well.


Brother you try too hard to be fair to everyone. You need to just say WTF occasionally and realize that some people just can't be saved. 

I had other things to say but every rabbit hole I found myself going down was just so harsh (regarding the protestors and BLM movement) that I couldn't bring myself to post it.

GOD bless you.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Gonna get real weird, here, but yeah. They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited. Whatever.
> 
> So, like anything else in the world, Americans come first. I’m not willing to write other Americans off without a cursory attempt to actually engage with them.
> 
> I hope you’re also gonna have a 🥃 with that meal and I hope you’re well.



You should post more often, easy to get lost in the sauce.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 16, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Brother you try too hard to be fair to everyone. You need to just say WTF occasionally and realize that some people just can't be saved.
> 
> I had other things to say but every rabbit hole I found myself going down was just so harsh (regarding the protestors and BLM movement) that I couldn't bring myself to post it.
> 
> GOD bless you.


font 26, bold. underlined. but I'd get points.


----------



## AWP (Aug 16, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> font 26, bold. underlined. but I'd get points.



When Like, Love, and Laughter can't respond to the same post.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> SEATTLE IS A HELLISH POST-MARXIST REVOLUTION.
> 
> Kidding. It’s fine except for about 4 blocks and some organized protests. And everyone there- even the ‘woke’ ones- aren’t what the MSM (remember, kids, Faux News and One Atrocious News Network are still MSM) would lead you to believe.
> 
> ...


How do you explain the Mayor and council then?
They (per the media) seem content with letting things burn.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> How do you explain the Mayor and council then?
> They (per the media) seem content with letting things burn.


And per the media Donald Trump is the worst president we’ve ever had.

Seattle has shitty policies and problems because of those policies. So do a shit ton of other places.

It’s weird. It’s almost like the media is pushing this Seattle narrative as a way to continue dividing the country along political lines. Glad no one here is falling for it!


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Brother you try too hard to be fair to everyone. You need to just say WTF occasionally and realize that some people just can't be saved.
> 
> I had other things to say but every rabbit hole I found myself going down was just so harsh (regarding the protestors and BLM movement) that I couldn't bring myself to post it.
> 
> GOD bless you.


Meh. I’m an idealist what can I say. Lol.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> And per the media Donald Trump is the worst president we’ve ever had.
> 
> Seattle has shitty policies and problems because of those policies. So do a shit ton of other places.
> 
> It’s weird. It’s almost like the media is pushing this Seattle narrative as a way to continue dividing the country along political lines. Glad no one here is falling for it!



It's the same shit here.   Any way to demonize the "opposition".

This is a good article on the media polarization.  

U.S. Media Polarization and the 2020 Election: A Nation Divided


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 16, 2020)

"Everyone is an American" is a nice statement and all, but it's an apathetic viewpoint. The same type used to dismiss behaviors one doesn't care to deal with and understand as in " Boys will be boys" etc.

 If someone is in any kind of prestigious group, and they express themselves as desiring to literally see the group fail, be taken over by the enemy, actively sabotaging the efforts of the group etc.. What then? Are they still going to be members of that group?


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> "Everyone is an American" is a nice statement and all, but it's an apathetic viewpoint. The same type used to dismiss behaviors one doesn't care to deal with and understand as in " Boys will be boys" etc.


No, it’s a factually correct statement derived from face to face interactions with the people you’re talking about, in the context of this conversation. You didn’t bother to ask for clarification, so don’t apply motive or intent to my statements. Where did I say I was dismissive of the behavior? Did you just make that up?

I’ve been to Seattle and Portland in the last month (and TX, AZ, NV, in the last 2), “dealing with those viewpoints” personally and directly. Lots of viewpoints. That’s not what ‘apathetic’ means.

Apathy would be, “Bitching about people I don’t know behind my keyboard, forming very hard line opinions about things I have no idea about, but not actually caring enough to experience it personally or have a discussion about it.” Apathy would be, “Those people don’t agree with me, they’re lost- oh well, guess I’ll just post about it.“ That’s apathetic.

As for the rest of your comment? I’ll be honest, I find it to be silly. I’ll just ask bluntly- do you actually think one can act in such a manner as to denounce their American citizenship? Do you not view... whoever you’re talking about (I’m not that sure) as Americans? 

My position is, “The MSM is lying to you.The people you’re talking about are Americans. Have you talked to them? You should. America is worth it. Stop believing the shit you see on the news at face value and get out there and talk. Engage instead of bitching from your phone.”  

I won’t bother assuming your position, I’ll ask outright- what exactly are you saying?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I’ve been to Seattle and Portland in the last month (and TX, *AZ*, NV, in the last 2), “dealing with those viewpoints” personally and directly. Lots of viewpoints. That’s not what ‘apathetic’ means.


Yeah, "those People" threw bricks through a friend's window.  So, no, the only thing they need is time in a cell.  Those people descended on a grocery store just to throw bricks through windows.  Those people descended on a mall to just loot the place.  These are all things that happened here in my state. 

These people don't want any justice.  The people who want justice are minuscule minority, they're then used by others to attack our institutions. Then the leaders of these cities and states are failing to prosecute them.  So, those people? They clearly do not care to have a conversation.  They only care about compliance.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yeah, "those People" threw bricks through a friend's window.  So, no, the only thing they need is time in a cell.  Those people descended on a grocery store just to throw bricks through windows.  Those people descended on a mall to just loot the place.  These are all things that happened here in my state.
> 
> These people don't want any justice.  The people who want justice are minuscule minority, they're then used by others to attack our institutions. Then the leaders of these cities and states are failing to prosecute them.  So, those people? They clearly do not care to have a conversation.  They only care about compliance.


Time in a cell for destruction of personal property? Ok, if that’s the punishment that fits the crime. And it’s a shame that is happening, and unacceptable.

I’m not touching your second paragraph- if I wanted to bemoan thousands of people and characterize everyone protesting/looting/rioting/whatever as one thing or another, I would have engaged in this thread earlier. Plenty of that happening already. Your opinion is yours to have, and however you got to your conclusion, I’m sure you thought it out.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> post



It absolutely is dismissive explicitly stated or not.

"...They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited. Whatever...." <<Dissmissive. 

and insulting to them for whatever they stand for as Right and treat them like some "little brother/sister brat" that, "Just hasn't grown up yet", which is exactly what you've said.

As for my position, being American isn't just being born here, but if that's your take 

P.S. I know this is wildly inappropriate but said in jest: Perhaps your viewpoint is so compassionate because of the deep internal guilt you feel for being so extraordinarily privileged being able to venture and discuss with all the proles


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I’m not touching your second paragraph-


I will...




ThunderHorse said:


> These people don't want any justice. The people who want justice are minuscule minority, they're then used by others to attack our institutions. Then the leaders of these cities and states are failing to prosecute them. So, those people? They clearly do not care to have a conversation. They only care about compliance.




@ThunderHorse , forgive the cliche but who are "these people"?  I mean are you literally saying that the THOUSANDS of peaceful protesters also don't want justice? (whatever that justice looks like to them?)

Because come on, you've followed this a LOT closer than I have an even I can tell you about the countless documented cases where looting/damage were starting by white people, with the explicit purpose of getting minorities into the action and having them being the ones seen on TV.  

You (and many in these threads) are acting as if a few are talking for the many.  With that paradigm you should believe that the KKK speaks for all whites.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> P.S. I know this is wildly inappropriate but said in jest: Perhaps your viewpoint is so compassionate because of the deep internal guilt you feel for being so extraordinarily privileged being able to venture and discuss with all the proles


Then why say it, especially in these tension filled threads?  There is many a truth said in jest, so either own it or don't say it in such a passive aggressive way.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> It absolutely is dismissive explicitly stated or not.
> 
> "...They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited. Whatever...." <<Dissmissive.
> 
> ...


Man, lots to get through. Just as a baseline, let’s try this. You don’t hold any authority here- not like, on the board, but in the conversation, in the exact same way that neither do I.

So, when you tell me what I mean when I say things without asking me what I mean, that doesn’t really lead to a conversation, right? It’s fine if you think that’s a dismissive statement; it’s also fine that you took it completely out of context and applied it here. Please, go back to that post, read it in context, and be honest- does it belong here? As much as I said, “No matter what your opinion of those people are, they’re still Americans.” I’m not absolving behavior and I’ve been lock-tight for months on all of this. If people commit a crime, punish them individually to the full extent of the law. If you so choose to handle your own business, be prepared to reap those consequences. as an aside, it helps if you just quote the post, and make the parts you’re referring to bold. Just cleaner.

You have no clue what I think “makes” an American. Because- you guessed it- you didn’t ask. And it’s ok if you disagree with the constitution, the Supreme Court, natural law... you pay that academic penalty, not me. My statement stands.

We- you- are talking about Americans with these problems. You’re bringing no fixes (other than to write off a couple thousand people?), and at the moment it seems like you’re disagreeing with me because I’m not against actually talking to these Americans and ending this travesty that is our year.

As for your privilege statement- my viewpoint is probably a little more compassionate because I’m older, seen more of the world, and have different  experiences than you.

I think this conversation has probably run its course for the open board. I’ll be happy to engage via PM.




Ooh-Rah said:


> Then why say it, especially in these tension filled threads?  There is many a truth said in jest, so either own it or don't say it in such a passive aggressive way.


Meh. All good, I got the message.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Then why say it, especially in these tension filled threads?  There is many a truth said in jest, so either own it or don't say it in such a passive aggressive way.



If truth is found there, I didn't put it there. What is passive agressive about it?


----------



## Marine0311 (Aug 16, 2020)

If you throw bricks through personal property or a business.go sit in a cell , after you clean it up.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @ThunderHorse , forgive the cliche but who are "these people"?  I mean are you literally saying that the THOUSANDS of peaceful protesters also don't want justice? (whatever that justice looks like to them?)
> 
> Because come on, you've followed this a LOT closer than I have an even I can tell you about the countless documented cases where looting/damage were starting by white people, with the explicit purpose of getting minorities into the action and having them being the ones seen on TV.
> 
> You (and many in these threads) are acting as if a few are talking for the many.  With that paradigm you should believe that the KKK speaks for all whites.



I have been very specific with a lot of my posts.  The "people" I'm specifically talking about are in Portland, Seattle, and Chicago.  I have posted numerous links to videos and articles that show the tactics of the Black Bloc.  One was specifically a briefing from Chicago PD that showed the specific TTPs of Antifa using a fake BLM march to hide what they were doing, but it was all caught via CPD drones.

There may be peaceful protests for whatever people may desire during the day. But it has been clear, that in both Seattle and Portland the only people out "protesting"  *at night *are Black Bloc agitators that are assaulting private citizens as well as law enforcement. The leaders of these fair cities are choosing to de-fund their police departments instead of prosecuting the rioters and looters. It took a security guard getting shot at a mall in Chicago before Lightfoot called out the Rioters and said it wouldn't stand. After Weeks and weeks of riots in Chicago.

Mr Floyd will get his justice. The former officer involved is detained and will face trial. But the evidence that continues to surface shows a complicated and tragic situation.

Will the multiple people shot in the CHAZ get justice? Nope. Will the multiple people killed by their fellow "protester" in Louisville get Justice? No.

Since this unrest has gone on, the only thing that isn't surprising is the lack of deadly force used by the various LEAs across the country. That has been extremely consistent.

So how is my friend who is a child advocacy attorney supposed to get justice?  How are all of these people whom have been harmed supposed to get justice?  They aren't supposed to be speedbumps in whatever this is.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> If you throw bricks through personal property or a business.go sit in a cell , after you clean it up.


Wish that was a reality. We both know, it’s wishful thinking.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> If truth is found there, I didn't put it there. What is passive agressive about it?


This is a meta comment. So, did you mean that my privilege affected my statement? Its passive aggressive because you started out by saying, ‘this might be in jest’.

Do you see how that allows you to say what you want- that my compassion comes from my privilege- while still giving yourself an out about just sort of joking?

How about this-“I’m totally joking here, but you look way out of your depth. It’s like you’re just copy/pasting Fox News headlines and not speaking to the people you’re addressing. Lolol!”

If there’s truth there, I didn’t put it there. Fair?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 16, 2020)

Somebody will have to explain to me why this is okay. 

This is Democrat John Thompson, campaigning for State House in district 67A in St. Paul, protesting at the the home of Minneapolis Police Officer Bob Kroll, who is the head of the MPD Police union.

I missed memo that Officer Kroll was a “klansman and Grand Wizard” as candidate Thompson accuses him of being. 

NSFW -Language


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294753605082402816


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Somebody will have to explain to me why this is okay.
> 
> This is Democrat John Thompson, campaigning for State House in district 67A in St. Paul, protesting at the the home of Minneapolis Police Officer Bob Kroll, who is the head of the MPD Police union.
> 
> ...


I would assume the addresses of police officers is confidential information?  So that means he was doxed.  And I'd also arrest every single one of those dudes.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> This is a meta comment. So, did you mean that my privilege affected my statement? Its passive aggressive because you started out by saying, ‘this might be in jest’.
> 
> Do you see how that allows you to say what you want- that my compassion comes from my privilege- while still giving yourself an out about just sort of joking?
> 
> ...



You and I need to just take my damn Gear360 and go for a drive in the Blazer through Portland and Seattle... to show where stupidity happens, and how much non-stupidity there is in contrast.

Then we can go do the Gambler next year.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> You and I need to just take my damn Gear360 and go for a drive in the Blazer through Portland and Seattle... to show where stupidity happens, and how much non-stupidity there is in contrast.
> 
> Then we can go do the Gambler next year.


Man I’ve never been any more in.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> My position is, “The MSM is lying to you.The people you’re talking about are Americans. Have you talked to them? You should. America is worth it. Stop believing the shit you see on the news at face value and get out there and talk. Engage instead of bitching from your phone.”



I value your opinion and I wish you'd contribute more often, but I understand why.

A simple first step for America is to stop calling MSM outlets 'news outlets'. If we could all see them for the Mainstream Propaganda Outlets (MPOs) they are, we might be able to get somewhere. The problem with that is it requires people to form their own opinions, rather than being told how to feel/act. The only difference between our media and China's, is they're not state owned, but they are party owned. Not too far off if you think about it.

I'm cynical these days.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> post


I'll reply to this in PM as suggested.

Second part I'll address it openly as you did.



amlove21 said:


> *This is a meta comment. So, did you mean that my privilege affected my statement? Its passive aggressive because you started out by saying, ‘this might be in jest’.*
> 
> I'm not going to explain the joke.
> 
> ...


----------



## Florida173 (Aug 17, 2020)

Meanwhile, not in other news. Has anyone seen Mille Weaver's documentary yet? It's definitely more conspiracy theory stuff with elements of truth all layered in to create more distrust of the government. Does it help her story though that she was arrested leading up to the release though? I'd link it, but youtube apparently already took it down. Flat earth and ancient alien videos good, big military industrial complex trying to derail trump conspiracy apparently bad. I'll link of i see it again

Here's my favorite Canadian lawyer talking about the arrest.







Edit to clarify the common thread is the prorests and defund the policy movements are part of the overall IO campaign against the American people. So honestly my post would have sat in probably four different threads.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> I'll reply to this in PM as suggested.
> 
> Second part I'll address it openly as you did.


Hate because you’re either being purposely obtuse and now claiming the victim OR because we just can’t even have a rational conversation on this board. Both are sad. 

Either way, looking forward to the PM.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Meanwhile, not in other news. Has anyone seen Mille Weaver's documentary yet? It's definitely more conspiracy theory stuff with elements of truth all layered in to create more distrust of the government. Does it help her story though that she was arrested leading up to the release though? I'd link it, but youtube apparently already took it down. Flat earth and ancient alien videos good, big military industrial complex trying to derail trump conspiracy apparently bad. I'll link of i see it again
> 
> Here's my favorite Canadian lawyer talking about the arrest.
> 
> ...


You’re not wrong. Ben Shapiro’s new book (How to Destroy America in 3 Easy Steps) is a great dive into the coordinated campaign as well.

The audiobook is a VERY easy listen and well worth it.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Somebody will have to explain to me why this is okay.
> 
> This is Democrat John Thompson, campaigning for State House in district 67A in St. Paul, protesting at the the home of Minneapolis Police Officer Bob Kroll, who is the head of the MPD Police union.
> 
> I missed memo that Officer Kroll was a “klansman and Grand Wizard” as candidate Thompson accuses him of being.


It looks like a predictable 'rhetort' to Kroll's previous hyperbolic designation of Black Lives Matter as a terrorist movement, with the comment likely stemming on this and this incident involving Kroll, notwithstanding his checkered MPD history mentioned further down in the first link.

It also looks like a smart play for him to secure the slot in that district.


ThunderHorse said:


> I would assume the addresses of police officers is confidential information?  So that means he was doxed.


The way you preface the term suggests that the confidentiality of the information factors in to whether it qualifies as 'doxxed'. If we accept that premise, then the fact that the protesters knew where to go doesn't conclude anything about how the information got out.  There are a number of legal and socially acceptable ways for people to come upon a peace officer's home address without putting in any work engaging in Internet database searches or cracks.





ThunderHorse said:


> And I'd also arrest every single one of those dudes.


All costing valuable manpower, resources, time, and tax dollars to accomplish.  

It seems they saved a lot more in each of those areas just by dispatching officers just to monitor the protest and keep the peace.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 17, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> No surprise. Austin has had a deluge of of west coast liberals flood the area and slowly turn the city into a liberal tech center hell hole. Here's hoping the Lone Star spirit curb stomps the useful idiots trying to radically change Texas.


Link? Or just your opinion? I have a lot of friends in Austin. What makes it a ‘liberal tech center he’ll hole’?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 17, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Link? Or just your opinion? I have a lot of friends in Austin. What makes it a ‘liberal tech center he’ll hole’?


Austin tends to be the butt of many jokes from my more conservative acquaintances in Texas. (Welcome to Texas please don't move here. Welcome to Texas, we're full.)

Here you go though. A picture is worth a thousand words. 


The Worst Kinds of Austin Transplants


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 17, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Gonna get real weird, here, but yeah. *They are Americans. Stupid, misguided, young, brainwashed, misled, exploited.* Whatever.
> 
> So, like anything else in the world, Americans come first. I’m not willing to write other Americans off without a cursory attempt to actually engage with them.


To clear the waters, I think the bolded is the crux of the issue. The thing is Marxism and it's ideals don't really adhere with the principals of nationality. To a degree, Marxism uses nationality as a way to protect it's ideologues. (It's akin to an invading cancer cell using the body's own defense mechanism to replicate and kill it's host.)

I think @Hungry_Dog hit on an important topic too. Being born American doesn't automatically make you a good person. Just because these Marxists are US nationals, it doesn't excuse them breaking social order to bend us to their misguided (and extremely suicidal) will. 

Look at it like this. The Russian Marxists who killed and tortured millions of their fellow citizens thought of themselves as patriots, doing dirty work that had to be done. That same premise is repeated wherever Marxism has been allowed to take hold. American or not these homegrown Marxists are heralds of death and destruction.


----------



## SOSTCRNA (Aug 17, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> SEATTLE IS A HELLISH POST-MARXIST REVOLUTION.
> 
> Kidding. It’s fine except for about 4 blocks and some organized protests. And everyone there- even the ‘woke’ ones- aren’t what the MSM (remember, kids, Faux News and One Atrocious News Network are still MSM) would lead you to believe.
> 
> ...



My post here is only to say that we will be out there next month to visit our kids.  Have a salmon fishing trip booked and a house rented for three nights on the beach, going to bloat myself on seafood and beer for a week. Can’t f’ing wait.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> It looks like a predictable 'rhetort' to Kroll's previous hyperbolic designation of Black Lives Matter as a terrorist movement, with the comment likely stemming on this and this incident involving Kroll, notwithstanding his checkered MPD history mentioned further down in the first link.
> 
> It also looks like a smart play for him to secure the slot in that district.
> The way you preface the term suggests that the confidentiality of the information factors in to whether it qualifies as 'doxxed'. If we accept that premise, then the fact that the protesters knew where to go doesn't conclude anything about how the information got out.  There are a number of legal and socially acceptable ways for people to come upon a peace officer's home address without putting in any work engaging in Internet database searches or cracks.All costing valuable manpower, resources, time, and tax dollars to accomplish.
> ...



I don't get you man. And no, this is not socially acceptable. Your attempt to defend this behavior is awful. He'll now have a detail on his street patrolling in a greater capacity because his address was leaked. (Legally or illegally)


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't get you man. And no, this is not socially acceptable.


Social decorum rarely is a driving concern for any groups who have successfully attempted change through activism.  In fact, disagreement on those grounds from non-supporters is often taken as an indicator to non-rioting protesters like these to continue exercising their free speech rights in those ways.





ThunderHorse said:


> Your attempt to defend this behavior is awful.


I suppose you are also free to conflate my feedback with a defense of his behavior.





ThunderHorse said:


> He'll now have a detail on his street patrolling in a greater capacity because his address was leaked. (Legally or illegally)


That should hopefully help in case more malicious elements want to take advantage of information that, beyond its immediate availability to neighbors and anyone delivering material to his doorstep, is increasingly more challenging to hide due to the IoT.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 17, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Link? Or just your opinion? I have a lot of friends in Austin. What makes it a ‘liberal tech center he’ll hole’?
> 
> 
> R.Caerbannog said:
> ...


Keep Austin weird has been a local joke for decades.

That said, Austin (home of UT Austin) has been extremely liberal as long as I have been in Texas, 16 years and counting.
Previous, and current Governor have gone out of their way to bring CA tech firms into Texas (primarily Austin). My very liberal brother-in-law (tech guy who USE to live in Austin) has started to complain about people californicating his state.

Austin isn't a total hell-hole, but that's because the current Governor use State Law and agencies to go in and clean up when things start to get out of control.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 17, 2020)

I like Austin, I do.  Some great food and beer, and historically I like UT.  But it is indeed the most liberal city in Texas; reminded me of a bigger, hipper Chapel Hill (NC).  I don't know if it is because it's where the flagship school is located or what.  And like Chapel Hill, that place is expensive as hell to live in.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Social decorum rarely is a driving concern for any groups who have successfully attempted change through activism.  In fact, disagreement on those grounds from non-supporters is often taken as an indicator to non-rioting protesters like these to continue exercising their free speech rights in those ways.I suppose you are also free to conflate my feedback with a defense of his behavior.That should hopefully help in case more malicious elements want to take advantage of information that, beyond its immediate availability to neighbors and anyone delivering material to his doorstep, is increasingly more challenging to hide due to the IoT.



Next thing you'll say is that the Taliban, in whole, is just a group of activists.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Next thing you'll say is that the Taliban, in whole, is just a group of activists.


Only if they did something as egregious as saying mean things to a peace officer outside his residence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Only if they did something as egregious as saying mean things to a peace officer outside his residence.


I’m trying to walk the fine line of not personally attacking another member, but come on man. COME ON!

Leading a caravan of vehicles from the city to the man’s home, and then doing what he did and saying what he said, is well beyond  just “saying mean things. “


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m trying to walk the fine line of not personally attacking another member, but come on man. COME ON!


No worries.  I'll avoid responding in kind if you decide to do that.


Ooh-Rah said:


> Leading a caravan of vehicles from the city to the man’s home, and then doing what he did and saying what he said, is well beyond  just “saying mean things. “


That is, quite literally, all they did. 

I find it astonishing that the outrage you're venting is directed entirely towards the way I summed up what the protesters did as a quip in place of @GOTWA's indirect back comparison of these nonviolent protesters to an Islamist terrorist organization that killed 3,000 of our citizens and destroyed the Twin Towers in one surprise attack, launched a two decade war, and killed thousands of our brave servicemembers meanwhile.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

@Locksteady 

What's the point of doxxing someone and showing up at their house if not to harass and intimidate+?

If it was about protests and expressing themselves, they could have done that without dropping a pin on google maps.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> @Locksteady
> 
> What's the point of doxxing someone and showing up at their house if not to harass and intimidate+?


If you're interested in getting the attention of someone who seems to be ignoring you, showing up to their residence and being loud is a good step towards bridging that gap.





Hungry_Dog said:


> If it was about protests and expressing themselves *in ways that wouldn't gain his attention*, they could have done that without dropping a pin on google maps.


FTFY


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If you're interested in *pissing off the locals and immediate neighbors, possibly endangering lives, and growing an all around distaste for your movement and tactics*, showing up to their residence and being loud is a good step towards bridging that gap.



ftfy


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If you're interested in *pissing off the locals and immediate neighbors, possibly endangering lives, and growing an all around distaste for your movement and tactics*, showing up to their residence and being loud is a good step towards bridging that gap.FTFY





Hungry_Dog said:


> ftfy


If showing up and being loud is all it takes to endanger lives in a Western liberal democracy, there is a far bigger underlying problem at hand than the people exercising those rights.

Few if any major social advances in American society would have occurred if a fear of pissing off locals and gathering distaste from people who don't share their views was all it took to quell the discontent of its citizens.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If showing up and being loud is all it takes to endanger lives in a Western liberal democracy, there is a far bigger underlying problem at hand than the people exercising those rights.
> 
> Few if any major social advances in American society would have occurred if a fear of pissing off locals and gathering distaste from people who don't share their views was all it took to quell the discontent of its citizens.



Do you have skin in the game?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If you're interested in getting the attention of someone who seems to be ignoring you, showing up to their residence and being loud is a good step towards bridging that gap.



Not remotely.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Do you have skin in the game?


As much as any other American citizen.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> As much as any other American citizen.


Which means what?


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Which means what?


The right to weigh in on any issue affecting fellow American citizens.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2020)

*We're done with this topic.  No one is going to change their minds.  Move onto something else. *


----------



## 757 (Aug 17, 2020)

I disliked a few comments, here are my reasons:

1) Disturbing the Peace. Sadly, I doubt this dude will ever be charged despite acting like a petulant child. I personally hope they go after him regardless.

2) The purpose of this event was to cause fear and stir up anger/division, even invoking the imagery of the KKK to do so. Interestingly, one of the above articles mentioned how officer Kroll claimed Keith Ellison was supportive (I'm generalizing) of Islamic Terrorists and therefore was basically a terrorist. Hypothetically, if Kroll rounded up some of his buddies, found Ellison's residence, and started blasting expletives and threats over a loud speaker at Ellison's home, I'd 100% oppose Kroll and his entourage because that is not productive in the slightest.

3) Doxxing. Kroll was doxxed and that should concern everyone here. Between 1993-2016, 8 abortion providers were doxxed and murdered. Rabid vigilantism is on the uptick in our country. Those 8 providers were murdered because the murderers saw themselves as the "good guys" killing "baby killers." Today, we see people dressed in black fighting against "Nazi's." Every person on this forum believes that Nazism is an abomination and should be strongly opposed. Leaders lead, this forum is filled with examples of great leaders and a variety of funny/tragic stories of bad leaders. In both cases, leaders have a lot of power and with great power comes great responsibility. Make no mistake, this dude is a bad leader but he is leading those people down a path of hatred. It only takes one person with a strong "justified" desire to kill can wreak havoc, just ask the families of those 8 providers if you don't believe me.

To conclude, a guy screaming obscenities and using incendiary terms is NOT something to be praised, it is something we should condemn across the board. This guys goal was not to unify or heal a division with the intent to move the needle forward, it was pure vitriol dispensed for some unknown reason (probably for personal political branding with the intent of achieving personal power and prestige). What this man did was selfish and probably caused more harm for his own cause than he realizes. The fact that this guy may become a public figure some day is terrifying.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 17, 2020)

757 said:


> post


Thank you for providing these reasons.

Your post did a great job helping me appreciate the rationale behind stance, and provided well-needed context for your reactions.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 18, 2020)

Thought I'd post these here to shed light on the logic behind these faux 'organizers' and their tactics. Doxxing and showing up at peoples homes, to threaten and intimidate them, is straight out of Saul Alinky's 'Rules For Radical's' playbook.

Rules for Radicals - Wikipedia

13. "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. *Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions*."

9. "*The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself*. Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist."

Food for thought.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 18, 2020)

There's that word 'activist' again.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 18, 2020)

They like playing the "I'm not touching you" game that my kids play with each other.  When they get touched back, it's gonna leave a mark.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 18, 2020)

@Devildoc Which they'll respond with the tactic below. Doesn't help our MSM is shilling for the useful idiots and pinko commies activists. The heads organizing these idiots want bloodshed and violence, it's how they get their concessions.

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside. *Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog*."


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Devildoc Which they'll respond with the tactic below. Doesn't help our MSM is shilling for the useful idiots and pinko commies activists. The heads organizing these idiots want bloodshed and violence, it's how they get their concessions.
> 
> 11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside. *Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog*."


I think we are too deep into "the revolution" to think people will swing to the left when an Antifa member gets capped.
Portland driver being killed will encourage others to just start driving through crowds as stopping means a vandalized car, beating, or getting shot.

I am still waiting for all the self proclaimed 3%'rs to start pushing back.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 18, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Portland driver being killed will encourage others to just start driving through crowds...



I’m not going to post a link to it, but the driver you referenced, named Adam Haner, is alive according to the GoFundMe that his brother Brian started for him. It’s up to $56k now.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 18, 2020)

Self defense is something different though isn't it? As long as the opinion of the average person are still being sought after, proactive violence is distasteful either direction.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 18, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I think we are too deep into "the revolution" to think people will swing to the left when an Antifa member gets capped.
> Portland driver being killed will encourage others to just start driving through crowds as stopping means a vandalized car, beating, or getting shot.
> 
> I am still waiting for all the self proclaimed 3%'rs to start pushing back.


It's not about the people, but the narrative. Look at it like this. One could theoretically create skull mounds outta useful idiots, but without killing/capturing the leaders of this farce nothing will change. To their leadership, the Antifa/Black Bloc/useful idiots are at best disposable pawns; at worst they're future liabilities.

In a way, the visible leaders of this movement are only middle men. The people pulling the strings behind the show, the ones funding and who will lead the negotiations, are the ones who stand to benefit from this chaos. To halt this, one would have to target/disappear the people pulling strings from behind closed doors and make examples of the middlemen (visible leaders).

Add on: Another thing to consider is that the true leadership behind these idiots is international, this ain't just home grown idiocy.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 18, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I am still waiting for all the self proclaimed 3%'rs to start pushing back.



They never will. A large number of these "Patriotic" militias/groups only care when its the sort of Government overreach they don't agree with.

I doubt many(if any) threepers will push back, because they fully support the government doing all the work right now, because it's happening to ANTIFA and not them.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> They never will. A large number of these "Patriotic" militias/groups only care when its the sort of Government overreach they don't agree with.
> 
> I doubt many(if any) threepers will push back, because they fully support the government doing all the work right now, because it's happening to ANTIFA and not them.


There is literally nothing happening to Antifa.  They're being caught and then released with charges dropped.  What @DA SWO is talking about is the 3% pushing back directly against Antifa for committing crimes on common persons.



Hungry_Dog said:


> Self defense is something different though isn't it? As long as the opinion of the average person are still being sought after, proactive violence is distasteful either direction.



Antifa seems to be quite proactive with their violence atm.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 18, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Antifa seems to be quite proactive with their violence atm.



Yea they are; they're also hiding behind BLM for all that juicy progressive protection. Puts the average joe in a tough spot.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’m not going to post a link to it, but the driver you referenced, named Adam Haner, is alive according to the GoFundMe that his brother Brian started for him. It’s up to $56k now.


That's GREAT news.
I'll look for that GFM later tonight.


----------



## medicchick (Aug 18, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> That's GREAT news.
> I'll look for that GFM later tonight.


A warrant is out for the arrest of the pos who kicked him unconscious on video. They know who he is. It's just a matter if time as he apparently goes down there every night.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 18, 2020)

medicchick said:


> A warrant is out for the arrest of the pos who kicked him unconscious on video. They know who he is. It's just a matter if time as he apparently goes down there every night.



I’ll bet the charges are dropped and that asshole walks before he’s spent an hour inside.


----------



## medicchick (Aug 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’ll bet the charges are dropped and that asshole walks before he’s spent an hour inside.


Probably but his name is being blasted all over social media. He'll some sort of comeuppance.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 18, 2020)

Mods move this if it fits in the Politics thread, but it has to do with race so I figured it could go here as well. 

Goodyear says you can't wear Blues Lives or All Lives Matter apparel.  

Goodyear responds to zero-tolerance policy slide labeled by employee as discriminatory


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 18, 2020)

Ooof, that one will backfire on them.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 18, 2020)

From the article:


> "If someone wants to wear a BLM shirt in here, then cool. I'm not going to get offended about it. But at the same time, if someone's not going to be able to wear something that is politically based, even in the farthest stretch of the imagination, that's discriminatory," said the employee under the agreement of anonymity due to fears they could lose their job. "If we're talking about equality, then it needs to be equality. If not, it's discrimination."


Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Mods move this if it fits in the Politics thread, but it has to do with race so I figured it could go here as well.
> 
> Goodyear says you can't wear Blues Lives or All Lives Matter apparel.
> 
> Goodyear responds to zero-tolerance policy slide labeled by employee as discriminatory



“Goodyear is committed to fostering an inclusive and respectful workplace where all of our associates can do their best in a spirit of teamwork. As part of this commitment, we do allow our associates to express their support on racial injustice and other equity issues but ask that they refrain from workplace expressions, verbal or otherwise, in support of political campaigning for any candidate or political party as well as other similar forms of advocacy that fall outside the scope of equity issues.” 

That'pretty shitty rationale on Goodyear's part.  "We don't want any politics in the workplace... unless it's politics we support (or at least politics we're afraid to crack down on in the current political climate)."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 19, 2020)

Minneapolis police union President Bob Kroll bashes chief in radio interview

_Minneapolis Police Federation President Bob Kroll lashed out at Chief Medaria Arradondo in a radio interview Tuesday and called for him to step down for failing to challenge city officials and protesters in the wake of George Floyd’s killing.

Kroll said it was his job as head of the union representing roughly 800 rank-and-file cops to call out “bad leadership” by Arradondo, the latest sign of growing friction between the two leaders. Arradondo made national headlines a few weeks after Floyd’s death when he pulled out of contract negotiations with the union, saying he intended to be on the “right side of history.”

“I’ve always gotten along with our current chief, and until this happened, we did get along better than any other (past chief), but I’m going to call out failed leadership where it’s at, and that is the entire command staff,” said the fiery police lieutenant, who until recently had been publicly supportive of Arradondo. “How can you be a copper 30-plus years and give up your integrity and just go with what you know is absolutely wrong.”_


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 19, 2020)

Update to yesterday:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296111292827283462


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 19, 2020)

So, probably an office somewhere that the local management put it out, but not corporate....quite possible.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 19, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> So, probably an office somewhere that the local management put it out, but not corporate....quite possible.


Yeah, that's also how you lose a franchise license.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yeah, that's also how you lose a franchise license.


As they should.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 20, 2020)

I sure wish the rioters / protesters / looters in the large AMERICAN cities would show proper recourse towards the Websters dictionary definition of _Apathy_ and not some made up version: """"" _*Apathy*_ is a lack of feeling, emotion, interest, or concern about something. It is a state of _indifference_, or the _suppression of emotions_ such as concern, excitement, motivation, or passion. ... The _apathetic_ may _lack a sense of purpose_, worth, or meaning in their life. """" ~~~~> *AND JUST STAY AT HOME.   *


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 20, 2020)

Article from the Chicago Tribune. Found it a bit funny that the Mayor of Chicago is using the police to protect her block and home from the protestors she previously cheered.

Citing threats, Mayor Lori Lightfoot defends ban on protesters on her block: ‘I have a right to make sure that my home is secure’


Spoiler: Pic


----------



## lr1400 (Aug 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Article from the Chicago Tribune. Found it a bit funny that the Mayor of Chicago is using the police to protect her block and home from the protestors she previously cheered.
> 
> Citing threats, Mayor Lori Lightfoot defends ban on protesters on her block: ‘I have a right to make sure that my home is secure’
> 
> ...




Definition and prime example of what happens with socialism/communism. Those with power take all.


----------



## Lefty375 (Aug 21, 2020)

lr1400 said:


> Definition and prime example of what happens with socialism/communism. Those with power take all.



How does this statement make any sense? This specific action was done in a democratic nation.

Watch, I can do the same thing.

Definition and prime example of what happens with democracy. Those with power take all.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 21, 2020)

Yeah, I don't know if it's an ideological thing, or just whoever is holding the office and enjoying the hypocrisy of the double-standard....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 21, 2020)

lr1400 said:


> Definition and prime example of what happens with socialism/communism. Those with power take all.


Yep! Much like the Soviet politburo who drove fancy cars and ate fancy feasts while the peasants starved. Reeks of, "rules for thee, but not for me".

I'm glad people are waking up to the hypocrisy of those who kindled this wave of Marxist unrest.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 21, 2020)

Lefty375 said:


> How does this statement make any sense? This specific action was done in a democratic nation.
> 
> Watch, I can do the same thing.
> 
> Definition and prime example of what happens with democracy. Those with power take all.


Not really.  She tied the hands of her police department and did not allow them to disperse crowds and protect businesses and residences.  She is no better than the private citizens that elected her.  Then add to the fact that the Cook County DA of Jussie Fake Hate Crime Smollett fame is dropping charges on all rioters the morning after they've been arrested and releasing them.  

Do I think that the Mayor should have a detachment making sure she's safe during this period? Sure.  But assigning dozens of officers to her residence is hypocritical when private citizens in Chicago had both their lives and livelihoods threatened.  Let your cops do their jobs.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not really.  She tied the hands of her police department and did not allow them to disperse crowds and protect businesses and residences.  She is no better than the private citizens that elected her.  Then add to the fact that the Cook County DA of Jussie Fake Hate Crime Smollett fame is dropping charges on all rioters the morning after they've been arrested and releasing them.
> 
> Do I think that the Mayor should have a detachment making sure she's safe during this period? Sure.  But assigning dozens of officers to her residence is hypocritical when private citizens in Chicago had both their lives and livelihoods threatened.  Let your cops do their jobs.


The mayor could call the DA and express displeasure with her catch and release program.
The Machine runs that county, and the Machine can find a new DA.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 21, 2020)

Like most elected positions of different governments (city vs county) The DA could care less what the Mayor says...and vice versa.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 21, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Like most elected positions of different governments (city vs county) The DA could care less what the Mayor says...and vice versa.


You have no idea how Cook County runs.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 21, 2020)

True...I lack the local knowledge....but they are two separate entities....we have had the same issues with the Dallas County DA and the municipalities involved in the county.

But, can you provide some basic understanding from an outsiders view?  Seriously


----------



## AWP (Aug 21, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> True...I lack the local knowledge....but they are two separate entities....we have had the same issues with the Dallas County DA and the municipalities involved in the county.
> 
> But, can you provide some basic understanding from an outsiders view?  Seriously



Check out The Outfit by Gus Russo. It is about the Chicago mafia, but covers Chicago politics as it relates to the mob and how it is all intertwined.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 22, 2020)

Well fuck.  

did you boys really shoot him in the back?

Louisiana police shoot black man 'with a knife' as he walked away — Daily Mail


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2020)

I watched the video.  Hard to tell exactly what was going on, but he wasn't "walking away," as the headline claims.  He was armed, unresponsive to commands, no effect from less-lethal employment, and he was entering an occupied gas station with people going in and out.  IMO this was probably a good shoot.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 22, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> True...I lack the local knowledge....but they are two separate entities....we have had the same issues with the Dallas County DA and the municipalities involved in the county.
> 
> But, can you provide some basic understanding from an outsiders view?  Seriously


The Daily (now Obama Political Machine) runs the city, and the city runs the county.
The DA didn't get the job without the local crime, err, party boss's approval.
Likewise the mayor could call the boss up and pass the word that they need to start prosecuting some of their supporters.
I think the Democrats have lost control of these people and inadvertently "released the Krackin"
Michele O may think the riots end with a Biden Victory, I don't.  Not without a heavy crackdown.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 22, 2020)

So, in Portland yesterday, government officials and buildings were warned that there was a ‘credible threat of a VBIED possibly being used against federal buildings’.

What in the literal fuck. Over.

All federal buildings close in Portland amid threat

ETA- Here’s an example of (probably) highly effective tactics to quell this sort of thing.

Tennessee governor signs bill increasing punishments for certain protests


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 22, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> So, in Portland yesterday, government officials and buildings were warned that there was a ‘credible threat of a VBIED possibly being used against federal buildings’.
> 
> What in the literal fuck. Over.
> 
> All federal buildings close in Portland amid threat


Brother, if anything I'm surprised it has taken this long for that stuff to occur. We're fast approaching 100 days of unrest in Portland, the City is not allowing their law enforcement to do their job, the DA drops charges every morning, and the State is not doing anything either.  This could have been whittled down if through pure attrition by holding all of the people were arrested for serious crimes and prosecuting them.  There has been an abdication of sense and responsibility in Portland and Salem.  The Black Bloc continues to evolve their TTPs on a daily basis. I truly have to wonder how the local elections will turn out with the Black Bloc going into neighborhoods and harassing people.

Last night PPB Precinct North was attacked.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297214893993545728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297088438601039872
In neighborhoods-not the only video, there's plenty out there.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297040373886279682
These are not protests, these are organized riots and have been since the beginning.  The Black Bloc infrastructure specifically in Oregon and Portland is significant.  In 2017 the mayor allowed an "Autonomous Zone" to exist for five months.


----------



## medicchick (Aug 22, 2020)

It's not the first VBIED unfortunately. My company had to tow one a month or so ago after the bomb squad disarmed it. We had to store it at the indoor lit for a bit until PPB had room at theirs. Fun times...


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 23, 2020)

medicchick said:


> It's not the first VBIED unfortunately. My company had to tow one a month or so ago after the bomb squad disarmed it. We had to store it at the indoor lit for a bit until PPB had room at theirs. Fun times...



My professional opinion: "Well, goddamn.  Can't say I'm surprised, except that they're smart enough not to blow themselves up in the process. That surprises me."


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 23, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> My professional opinion: "Well, goddamn.  Can't say I'm surprised, except that they're smart enough not to blow themselves up in the process. That surprises me."


Like but also hate. Can we get a button for that? Like, a “This makes me murderously angry but also good point” button or nah. Someone get a useless ass red tag on this.

Oh. It me. Yeeet.


----------



## medicchick (Aug 23, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> My professional opinion: "Well, goddamn.  Can't say I'm surprised, except that they're smart enough not to blow themselves up in the process. That surprises me."


Oh trust me we were all surprised too.


----------



## AWP (Aug 23, 2020)

If the VBIED threat isn't from a white Toyota Corolla, then it isn't real.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> If the VBIED threat isn't from a white Toyota Corolla, then it isn't real.



"BOLO: white Toyota, downtown Kabul"

"Um... thanks S2..."

Downtown Kabul:


----------



## AWP (Aug 23, 2020)

For those of you not in on the "joke": Every. Single. Day we were briefed about a VBIED threat from....?

A white Toyota Corolla.

No lie, I am dead serious, every DAY there was a VBIED threat from Intel about a white Toyota Corolla. 

Ponder how stupid that sounds. It happened. Every. DAY. Bagram? Kabul? Kandahar? Jalalabad? Boondocks in N2K? MeS? Name the location, the city, the mud hut, the wadi, the mountain, terrain feature, b-hut...hell, anything and a white Toyota Corolla was a VBIED threat.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 23, 2020)

While some of the things discussed here have not happened yet, where's the line where one should see it as a legitimate threat?

Ya'll are talking about vbied threats now.


----------



## Andoni (Aug 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> Ponder how stupid that sounds.


You don't go to war with the gear you need, You go to war with the gear you have!

Which, although true, reminds me of the same thing and I like to ask the same ponder question 🤣.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> For those of you not in on the "joke": Every. Single. Day we were briefed about a VBIED threat from....?
> 
> A white Toyota Corolla.
> 
> ...



We have intel that says the Taliban are planning an attack against U.S./Coalition Forces in the next 48 hours in Afghanistan. Stay alert and keep your heads on a swivel boys.

Sorry, but don't clutter my email.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 23, 2020)

After 88 days of violence in Portland, there was a "proud boys" demonstration in Portland that was of course immediately "counter protested" by BLM/Black Bloc.  Of course the Proud boys came "strapped" with industrial pepper spray dispensers and so did the Black Bloc.  So you have two fringe groups "demonstrating" against each other.  

The Blue checks on twitter of course only going after the "proud boys". 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297368960497848323

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297594729044021248
My guess is that the "proud boys" are actually Oregonians from outlaying counties that are done with this invasion and wanted to demonstrate peaceably.  Of course they came with stuff to protect themselves after learning from the Black Bloc's tactics.  

However, of course at night the "Proud Boys" left and the Black Bloc burned various things.  So earlier if you go through this, Antifa put a teddy bear in the guillotine, and here they put two American flags in the Guillotine and then set the flags on fire. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297517521818382336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297518236431351808


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2020)

^this is exactly what happens when the government fails to enforce its own laws and protect its own citizens.

One of the fundamental aspects of "sovereignty" and governmental legitimacy is a monopoly on violence. When the government creates a "violence vacuum," someone is ALWAYS going to fill it. As we saw in Iraq, if the government doesn't keep people from carrying out violence against each other, and if it doesn't protect the rights of its citizens against violent attack ("counter-protest" in this case being akin to "political violence to keep other citizens from exercising their rights), the people under attack are going to turn to people and organizations who will fill those roles.

That is VERY dangerous for a society and a government.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 23, 2020)

This shit started 4 years ago when people at Trump rally's were attacked and democrat mayors told the cops to stand down.

It won't stop with a Biden win, and will worsen with a Trump win.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 23, 2020)

Multinomah county's dumb


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well fuck.
> 
> did you boys really shoot him in the back?
> 
> Louisiana police shoot black man 'with a knife' as he walked away — Daily Mail


Kenosha polic today...
WATCH NOW: State DOJ will probe officer-involved shooting; man in serious condition | Local News | kenoshanews.com


----------



## CQB (Aug 24, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> isn't she a member of the Socialist Alternative party?
> 
> EDIT: just looked her up, yep...first socialist voted into office. " She was the first _socialist_ to win a citywide election in Seattle since Anna Louise Strong was elected to the school board in 1916. "
> 
> I had no idea how screwed up the NW is.


Yep, she’s a SAP.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 24, 2020)

Kid doesn't realize said vehicle has things called firing ports.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297770791891656706


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Kid doesn't realize said vehicle has things called firing ports.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297770791891656706


Brandishing and pointing a rifle at an armored vehicle like that is pretty dumb.  Are we now at the point where the Black Bloc is going to assemble armed and going toe to toe?  For the most part, when deadly force could have been used during this period of unrest, no LEA has employed deadly force.  Wonder why Law Enforcement have armored vehicles?


----------



## Board and Seize (Aug 24, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Kid doesn't realize said vehicle has things called firing ports.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297770791891656706


Was that long-haired tool the one cracking off shots towards the end of the video?!  At the armored vehicle?  With his comrades in the immediate vicinity of said vehicle?  Ricochet anyone?

wtf man


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 24, 2020)

I don't know. That wasn't Portland, it was Wisconsin.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2020)

In case you missed it, the riot also burned down an entire car dealership.

Kenosha businesses damaged and vehicles burned after police officer shoots Black man


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 24, 2020)

So, did the guy in Kenosha have a gun or not? This is a very important detail that is missing from every news report.  He went back to the vehicle and was reaching in it when shot.  So, why did he do that? What was going on?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, did the guy in Kenosha have a gun or not? This is a very important detail that is missing from every news report.  He went back to the vehicle and was reaching in it when shot.  So, why did he do that? What was going on?



I don't have answers for this.  But here's the video.  It's probably a clean shot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297932605203992576


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 24, 2020)

I do not know if he had a gun or not, but what I see is a man leaning into the car (versus attempting to get in to drive), and the cop going full "weapons-free zone".  In a nanosecond that cop saw something or thought he saw something.

Not that it will matter one whit to the defund-the-cops people, BLM, or the anti-cop folks, but I hope they find solid, conclusive, incontrovertible evidence that renders it a good shoot.  And then I hope that cop tells the governor to kiss his ass.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 24, 2020)

So the police tail a man onto the street with guns drawn, then grab and hold him by the back of his tanktop to shoot him in the back, point-blank, seven times, in broad daylight, for opening the driver's side door to a car with his three children in it.

This should be interesting.  Happy to reserve judgment until more information is released.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 24, 2020)

I feel like this is what happens when you're so afraid to restrain or detain for non-compliance.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 24, 2020)

Well, my city has boarded up and closed down again. Most places closed at 1600 and EVERYONE is putting boards up on windows again.

I'm sick of this shit.

Hell, we had an 11yr old girl shot and killed last week, and no riots. Now. Kenosha happens and we get riots.

Where's that asteroid?


----------



## medicchick (Aug 24, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Where's that asteroid?


Expected to be close a few days before Election Day.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 24, 2020)

Cutting close, isn't it?


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 24, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Expected to be close a few days before Election Day.



Somehow this will be Trump’s fault too...


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 24, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Trump’s fault



I realize I've been extremely critical of not only the POTUS and this administration, but I do feel like he/they recieve too much backlash for the results of Covid. It was a damned if you do or damned if you don't scenario with no easy answers. While I don't agree with some of the measures, people need to look at the big picture and realize we were going to get hosed in one way or another.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 24, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I realize I've been extremely critical of not only the POTUS and this administration, but I do feel like he/they recieve too much backlash for the results of Covid. It was a damned if you do or damned if you don't scenario with no easy answers. While I don't agree with some of the measures, people need to look at the big picture and realize we were going to get hosed in one way or another.


Dude. Couldn’t agree more.

I just can’t wait for like, 4-6 years to pass. Know why?

We are going to look back at this time and the most drastic and dramatic reactors to all this will be ridiculed. Guess who won’t be on that list? The president and this administration.

In my opinion, they did what they could with the information they had. At the very least, they were willing to change tack. People forget that we are figuring the science out on this as we go. The first videos we saw were of Chinese people collapsing and convulsing in the street.

The number one ding seems to be, “Trump didn’t sound empathetic enough.” Eat dicks, everyone that needs empathy from their government. They’re there to provide a service. Do you expect empathy at the post office? STFU.

 There is PLENTY to vote this administration out on. 2A infringements, unreal geopolitical missteps, inability to close out priorities (remember healthcare?), general inability to stop tweeting dumb shit. But the corona response is definitely not one of them.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 24, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I just can’t wait for like, 4-6 years to pass. Know why?
> 
> We are going to look back at this time and the most drastic and dramatic reactors to all this will be ridiculed. Guess who won’t be on that list? The president and this administration.
> 
> ...




I'd like to think that everyone will look back on this and realize that it really was a shit sandwich with no drink to wash it down with, but if anything the past two administrations have taught me is that people have short term memory and even shorter foresight. Also people need to get over him being not "being empathetic enough", there is a time and a place for tack and at the time facing as you said what appeared to be the next black death tack and empathy can go the fuck out of the window hard decisions need to be made and choices faced.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 24, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> While some of the things discussed here have not happened yet, where's the line where one should see it as a legitimate threat?
> 
> Ya'll are talking about vbied threats now.


Until it personally touches them, I think people prefer to ignore the Marxist monster causing mayhem in our streets. Some will ignore it out of spite due to worldview's being challenged. Others will perpetuate the lie of safety/civility out of hope, desperation, indoctrination, or just not being cognizant of the situation. It's crazy when you look at it from afar.

On the other hand, people are finally facing some uncomfortable truths about the human condition. Hopefully the population comes to term with these truths faster than the Kulak and Holodomor peasants.


Kaldak said:


> Well, my city has boarded up and closed down again. Most places closed at 1600 and EVERYONE is putting boards up on windows again.
> 
> I'm sick of this shit.
> 
> ...


Per the bolded. The Kenosha incident fits a false narrative, while the 11 year old doesn't. If you were conducting a disinformation campaign, which event is more useful when your aim is destabilization?

The above is an ugly thought exercise, but sometimes it pays to think like your adversaries.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2020)

Thought Leader Shaun King


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Thought Leader Shaun King
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886


Talcum X is an idiot.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 24, 2020)

People that are calling for the "complete dismantling of American policing." are the first ones that call the police for help....it's easy to talk the talk, until the rubber meets the road.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 24, 2020)

I keep saying we should just put the Police on paid leave for a week for a quick social experiment.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 24, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I keep saying we should just put the Police on paid leave for a week for a quick social experiment.



Let's go 90 days, see how many plumbers, electricians, and HVAC guys show up when your shit dont work and there is true mayhem in the streets. When the Firemen cant getinto neighborhoods because of the mobs and whole communities burn to the ground. Lets truly see how that all works out, especially when dudes like me get turned loose on the rank and file shitbags of this world.

Yeah, that sound absolutely awesome to me.👍


----------



## Muppet (Aug 25, 2020)

Fuck the rats. Place cops on paid leave. When a violent event happens, EMS will not enter an unsecured scene. Postal services will not enter fuck hole hoods. My grandfather was right, many years ago. Let em kill each other off. My comment has nothing to do with race, rather, acting the scoundrel fool covers all humans of all kinds....

That's my opinion that will not change.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 25, 2020)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Let's go 90 days, see how many plumbers, electricians, and HVAC guys show up when your shit dont work and there is true mayhem in the streets. When the Firemen cant getinto neighborhoods because of the mobs and whole communities burn to the ground. Lets truly see how that all works out, especially when dudes like me get turned loose on the rank and file shitbags of this world.
> 
> Yeah, that sound absolutely awesome to me.👍



The downhill consequences are enormous, and they have no idea.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Thought Leader Shaun King
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886



I guess he identifies as a revolutionary now


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 25, 2020)

I have literally never heard of Shaun King until now.  Such a big talker for someone who hides behind a screen all day....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 25, 2020)

Daily Mail has more footage of the Kenosha incident. Turns out the perp was fighting with the cops, before he tried to get inside his car. In the pic he's pictured with a karambit.

In this case, the people pushing the narrative of police brutality and an unjustified shooting are full of shit.
Video shows Jacob Blake brawling with cops before he was shot


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298138566787125248


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 25, 2020)

Really long thread from Julio Rosas from Townhall that shows you the last 24 hours in Kenosha.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298023116296331265
This is getting wild.  Arrest people, prosecute them, violence stops.  Catch and release clearly does not.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 25, 2020)

Was listening to the scanner and watching the live streams before going to bed. Blocks of businesses were on fire. Even saw a stream of a convoy of looters who tried storming a residential neighborhood, before being shot at by homeowners standing their ground.

(Look at the video and way the vehicles are staged. These people are convoying as they do their arson/looting/intimidation BS.)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298122367735156737
(Business owner being assaulted.)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298210964018429952


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 25, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Was listening to the scanner and watching the live streams before going to bed. Blocks of businesses were on fire. Even saw a stream of a convoy of looters who tried storming a residential neighborhood, before being shot at by homeowners standing their ground.
> 
> (Look at the video and way the vehicles are staged. These people are convoying as they do their arson/looting/intimidation BS.)
> 
> ...



Being intimately familiar with these areas, they are not residential; they do have residential buildings mixed in.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 25, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Being intimately familiar with these areas, they are not residential; they do have residential buildings mixed in.


Gotcha, based on the video posted I was assuming it was a residential neighborhood.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 25, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Was listening to the scanner and watching the live streams before going to bed. Blocks of businesses were on fire. Even saw a stream of a convoy of looters who tried storming a residential neighborhood, before being shot at by homeowners standing their ground.
> 
> (Look at the video and way the vehicles are staged. These people are convoying as they do their arson/looting/intimidation BS.)
> 
> ...


1:48 mark a female says where's my gun at?
This could have gone south in a hurry if they returned fire.  Was the homeowner ready to go from warning to kill shots?


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 25, 2020)

This might throw a few wrenches into the DA's re-election.

Court filings: Medical examiner thought George Floyd had 'fatal level' of fentanyl in system


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 26, 2020)

So...Officer Tatum got his hands on Louisville PD's investigation on Breonna Taylor. 

Breonna-Taylor-Summary-Redacted


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 26, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> 1:48 mark a female says where's my gun at?
> This could have gone south in a hurry if they returned fire.  Was the homeowner ready to go from warning to kill shots?


Very true, I remember watching that male/female making that quip and thinking they're scum. On the other hand, the homeowner and any people inside could've been murdered/burned alive by those useful idiots.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 26, 2020)

Shit just got real in Kenosha. From what I’ve seen, a guy supporting the BLM protestors tries to stop some rioters, ends up getting attacked and shoots the attacker in the head. Crowd attempts to swarm him so he flees and trips. While on the ground, someone tries to attack him with a possible skateboard, attacker gets shot in chest and drops. Third person comes up and tries to take gun from him while supposedly drawing their own pistol and gets their bicep blown off after man on ground clears a weapon malfunction and gets off a round. Guy gets himself up, assesses the situation and then proceeds to peacefully turn himself in to the police.

Video is pretty supportive of it all being self defense. One, possibly two dead, with a third missing a bicep.


----------



## AWP (Aug 26, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Video is pretty supportive of it all being self defense. One, possibly two dead, with a third missing a bicep.



Link?


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> Link?



Pretty deficient when it comes to social media, so I hope this is how you link to specific twitter posts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298501182382473216


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The Kenosha incident fits a false narrative, while the 11 year old doesn't. If you were conducting a disinformation campaign, which event is more useful when your aim is destabilization?



Almost not a week goes by where we have at least one kid of color (usually black; sometimes Hispanic) shot as collateral damage in a drive-by, gang fight, etc.  And not a peep is said except by the grieving family on the 6 and 11 news.  Same can be said for when local LEOs shoot a person-not-black.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 26, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Third person comes up and tries to take gun from him while supposedly drawing their own pistol



This (memed) picture clearly shows him with a pistol.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)

I saw another pic with this guy with a TQ.  That is barely a TQ-worthy injury; I am not panicking over him losing his life if I did not apply one.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I saw another pic with this guy with a TQ.  That is barely a TQ-worthy injury; I am not panicking over him losing his life if I did not apply one.



No way, Doc. If TCCC taught me anything, it was MARCH. And that dude needs a TQ, nose hose, needle D, a saline lock, and then to be bundled up like a gas station burrito in a shiny thermal blanket.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> No way, Doc. If TCCC taught me anything, it was MARCH. And that dude needs a TQ, nose hose, needle D, a saline lock, and then to be bundled up like a gas station burrito in a shiny thermal blanket.



A skills lab?  I am down for that....

A great instructor once said, "everyone _needs_ the practice, but not every patient _needs_ the skills....."


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 26, 2020)

Guy was lucky it was only his bicep.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> A skills lab?  I am down for that....
> 
> A great instructor once said, "everyone _needs_ the practice, but not every patient _needs_ the skills....."



That's a good shot of him armed, not so much of the wound actually. He's got a nice 3rd of his AC area munched off due to close range 5.56. Lemme see if I can screenshot the yum yum bit.

Here ya go.



Spoiler: Graphic GSW


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> That's a good shot of him armed, not so much of the wound actually. He's got a nice 3rd of his AC area munched off due to close range 5.56. Lemme see if I can screenshot the yum yum bit.
> 
> Here ya go.
> 
> ...



Yeah, that is the pic I saw elsewhere....


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 26, 2020)

I've said it before but imagine being so morally and ethically bankrupt and brainwashed so as to go out and incite violence on unrelated neighborhoods and businesses as the result of criminal actions by someone you don't know.  It's insane.  The false narratives around this stuff that are being pushed by the media and some officials just fuels the fire.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 26, 2020)

Guys,

I don't if anyone has been on the street as a kid where gangs ruled the land.  But this is just like the movies and real life.  As @Marauder06 pointed out in another thread.  The only way government works is when the government has a monopoly on violence.  So we're seeing the power vacuum now be filled by rioters and concerned citizens whom I'm sure will no doubt get a label at III%ers or Proud Boys  by the left.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 26, 2020)

Best video I have found of the incident


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Almost not a week goes by where we have at least one kid of color (usually black; sometimes Hispanic) shot as collateral damage in a drive-by, gang fight, etc.  And not a peep is said except by the grieving family on the 6 and 11 news.  Same can be said for when local LEOs shoot a person-not-black.


This! The useful idiots and social justice retards, going on about their made up grievances, are usually tone deaf to this sort of thing cause they never lived it. The brain dead masses will bitch and moan over a dead scumbag, while the community and people victimized by these savages are ignored.

I know I sound crazy, but to me this all seems like a set up.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 26, 2020)

^Its been in the waiting for years. 

^^@ Jaknight Thanks for posting that video. Good footage, and an example of what one determined guy, who looks like he has 0 training and not in shape can do.


----------



## AWP (Aug 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The only way government works is when the government has a monopoly on violence.



I think this is appropriate. The video won't embed for some reason.

Transcript of "Why I chose a gun"


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 26, 2020)

Why do we continue to make heroes out of criminals?

Breakdown from Officer Tatum:






Jacob Blake had multiple warrants out for his arrest.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 26, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298662358894747648
Edit: Find it weird it's in a different state


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298662358894747648



Damn if that isn't some shit.....


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 26, 2020)

And the 17 year old is now a "vigilante"... 

Gunman, 17, is charged over Kenosha fatal shootings


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 26, 2020)

Found a longer cut of the shooting 1:34. You can see where he was retreating, the different assaulters (specifically guy in the white wife beater), and his subsequent getaway into police cordon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298507433975799809


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 26, 2020)

It's too soon to know for sure, but there are a lot of unanswered questions about whether or not the teenager broke the law in the events leading up to the shooting, such as walking around with a loaded weapon, transporting possibly loaded firearms across state lines, etc. which may inevitably complicate the case when it is brought to court.

If the rumors are true, he also is a strong supporter of Blue Lives Matter and a previous police cadet (the youth organization), which may lend some understanding as to his motives.

Also, to help complete the tale and for transparency's sake), here is an interesting video from someone who interviewed him that night before the shooting:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298657958205820928


----------



## LimaPanther (Aug 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> Transcript of "Why I chose a gun"




This is why I spent 32 years in our military and carried the gun. Unless our government takes control of the rioters soon we all may be having to pick it up again. I hope the government isn't waiting for winter to drive them off the streets.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (Aug 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> View attachment 35463


Savage.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 26, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Pretty deficient when it comes to social media, so I hope this is how you link to specific twitter posts.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298501182382473216


Someone should have told skateboard kid that you don't bring a skateboard to a gunfight.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 26, 2020)

Spoiler: Instagram Video 6:36 min





        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram



Incendiary throw at fleeing kid @3:26. Kids gets cornered in parking lot with aggressor. Shots are fired, kid flees, and we're already acquainted with what happens after.

I'm guessing the aggressors in the earlier part of the video tried setting up an ambush, peeled the kid off from his group, and had things go poorly for them. Ambush tactics by the black bloc on small/separated groups are actually pretty common if you decide to peruse youtube for examples.


----------



## Rapid (Aug 26, 2020)

There are two major obstacles preventing people on the Right from responding to these riots in force.

(a) The selective application of justice which is now the status quo in Democrat controlled areas. The local Democrat authorities have shown that they will allow Leftist mobs to assault people and property with impunity -- however, you can rest assured that any Right-wing efforts to protect innocent lives, homes, and businesses will be prosecuted to the nth degree.

(b) The corporations that control media -- both mainstream and social -- are firmly in the Left's pocket, and will do everything in their power to paint any & all Right-wing resistance as racist, fascist, white supremacist, etc.

The Right has the advantage in terms of arms and people who are actually willing and able to do battle. Antifa and BLM are good at mobilizing and ganging up on people, but as we've seen they fold immediately when met with actual armed resistance. None of them would be worth a shit in a real combat scenario against a determined foe.

Still, I'm still not sure attempting to take serious counter-revolutionary action under these conditions is a wise move. If you look at public opinion measures that aren't contaminated by Leftist propaganda, the more Antifa and BLM commit violence against people and property, the more the average person's opinion of them sours. I think there is a clearly identifiable reduction in support for BLM now compared to say, a couple days after the George Floyd incident.

It's hurting the Biden campaign and helping Trump, and regardless of his flaws, getting Trump re-elected is something absolutely necessary at this point. I wasn't concerned about an Obama victory back in 2008, but look at how far things have fallen in just 12 years. What we are seeing now is the fruit of the seeds that were planted back then. I don't want to know what seeds a Biden Harris presidency will plant, or what the US will look like after they bloom.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 26, 2020)

So the POTUS is sending a Federal task force to Kenosha.






ETA: Kenosha County Board of Supervisors requested 1,500 National Guardsmen with law enforcement powers to put down the riots.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298586818607226881


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 26, 2020)

Ok, so the AG named the officer involved in the shooting.  Per the article, his girlfriend who he's wanted for domestic abuse sexual assault against is the one who called the cops.

Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul said Jacob Blake had knife in car but would not clarify if responding officers knew about it

Warrant for his arrest was issued on 7 JUL 20.

Jacob Blake Court Filing 6 JUL 20


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Edit: Find it weird it's in a different state


Not too weird. Kenosha sits right on the border of IL. The kid's town of Antioch just happens to be on the IL side of the border a few miles away.  To me the fleeing charge is silly; it's a short and reasonable drive. He simply went home. 

I'm sure they'll try to make an example out of him. I don't know how the law reads in WI but a murder one charge seems overreacting based on what little I've seen so far.


----------



## LimaPanther (Aug 27, 2020)

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the young man turn himself into the  police? If so then they had to have released him in order for him to drive him. thus it seems no charges. If I turned myself in and wasn't put in jail then I guess I would have felt it was okay to go home.


----------



## Salt USMC (Aug 27, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the young man turn himself into the  police? If so then they had to have released him in order for him to drive him. thus it seems no charges. If I turned myself in and wasn't put in jail then I guess I would have felt it was okay to go home.


He fled the state


----------



## Board and Seize (Aug 27, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the young man turn himself into the  police? If so then they had to have released him in order for him to drive him. thus it seems no charges. If I turned myself in and wasn't put in jail then I guess I would have felt it was okay to go home.



From what I've seen in various videos and coverage: immediately following the shootings, he approached a police line with several vehicles, hands raised.  Them seem to have ignored him, and just driven past.

What I suspect: I think he tried to turn himself in, was ignored, then went home.  Cops may not have realized he was the shooter (there were multiple armed folks in the videos), and were more concerned with providing care to the wounded, then he fell through the cracks.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> He fled the state


Yeah, but not really.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 27, 2020)

Didn't know if this had been mentioned. Worth a read.

BLM Founder Mentored by Ex-Domestic Terrorist Worked with Bill Ayers


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 27, 2020)

^I used to laugh at those who posted about Marxist ties and high ranking Democrats who abided by the "Rules for Radicals" book during the Obama administration. Not anymore.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 27, 2020)

Minneapolis last night -

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how/why looting and rioting are productive forms of “protesting”.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298782837991145473


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 27, 2020)

lol, seems legit!  ;)

lessons learned from domestic US politics, I suppose...

*Air Force Deploys Next Generation Drone: The MQ “Peaceful Protester”*



> WASHINGTON, D.C. (PENTAGON) — Department of Defense (DoD) officials announced Tuesday that the U.S. Air Force is deploying its next generation of drones to the Middle East and elsewhere. Dubbed “The Peaceful Protester,” the new weapon system represents the culmination of months of research, testing and analysis


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 27, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> lol, seems legit!  ;)
> 
> lessons learned from domestic US politics, I suppose...
> 
> ...



Damn if that doesn't smack of a Duffelblog headline....


----------



## lr1400 (Aug 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Minneapolis last night -
> 
> I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how/why looting and rioting are productive forms of “protesting”.
> 
> ...



insanity


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Minneapolis last night -
> 
> I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how/why looting and rioting are productive forms of “protesting”.
> 
> ...


Looks like more of those white supremacists from out of town that the mayor and governor told us about.

For those that are unaware, rioting took place last night in Minneapolis' downtown business and retail district.  This was not a result of what took place in Kenosha.  Nope, this was the result of a completely false rumor that a black man who a suspect in a homicide in a parking ramp earlier in the day was shot in the head by police.  Completely false.  The man ate his own gun, in public, as police closed in on him.  The incident was caught on surveillance cams:

*WARNING: This video contains graphic images* This evening, a murder suspect committed suicide as police approached them at 8th & Nicollet. No officer weapons were fired. This is a tragedy for our community that is still hurting. Our condolences go to the families of the victims.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298800001951453185
@Ooh-Rah , can you help add a NSFW/Graphic button for the Twitter above? I searched for instructions on how do this but am obviously challenged and can no longer find them -  can't even find the help forum anymore. 😟

ETA: Disregard.  MPD appears to have deleted the Tweet.  Nonetheless, I would like to know how to add the spoiler button.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I would like to know






In the circled image select spoiler, then add whatever title you'd like. Once you do that, you'll see the coding appear in your text box, just insert your link or whatever you'd like in between the brackets.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 27, 2020)

@Blizzard 

So it looks like the following.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @Blizzard
> 
> So it looks like the following.
> 
> View attachment 35487


Got it.  Thanks!


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 27, 2020)

@SaintKP thank you for the explanation.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

More info of the rioters that were shot/killed in Kenosha:

The 3 shot (2 killed) in #Kenosha, Wisc. at the BLM riot have been identified. Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, was the first one killed. Video allegedly shows him chasing teen shooter & throwing something at him. Rosenbaum was a registered sex offender for a sex crime involving a minor. https://t.co/up1VgDyrgZ


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 27, 2020)

^Shithead #1 was at the gas station minutes before, calling the milita geared up people that were protecting infrastructure "ni@#a", and yelling "point your gun at me"... He won the grand prize that night.

Not sure if everyone caught that video.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 27, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^Shithead #1 was at the gas station minutes before, calling the milita geared up people that were protecting infrastructure "ni@#a", and yelling "point your gun at me"... He won the grand prize that night.
> 
> Not sure if everyone caught that video.



When my oldest son was younger, probably about 14, he got a little big for his pants. In front of the rest of his siblings he called me out and wanted to get a little sporty. So I followed through and smacked him down pretty hard.  After that he knew where I stood. Credibility is everything.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 27, 2020)

^That's funny, I have to go home and swat my 15 y/o for disrespecting his mom while I'm gone.


----------



## 757 (Aug 27, 2020)

@BlackSmokeRisinG here is the twitter link.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 27, 2020)

The NYT did a really good analysis of the incident from the many videos that have come out.

Tracking the Suspect in the Fatal Kenosha Shootings


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 27, 2020)

^Notice at the end of the last video on the page, the kid walks straight up to the police car to turn himself in and they ignore him. Then he backs up like the officer is pointing a gun at him or something.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^Shithead #1 was at the gas station minutes before, calling the milita geared up people that were protecting infrastructure "ni@#a", and yelling "point your gun at me"... He won the grand prize that night.
> 
> Not sure if everyone caught that video.


Yeah, agree.  Although I'm not 100% certain, but I think the video and confrontation you're referring to tool place the night before?

Nonetheless, careful what you wish for, you just might get it.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 27, 2020)

How quickly you can go from woke to un-woke when someone fights back.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 27, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How quickly you can go from woke to un-woke when someone fights back.



I think that this is a foundational, fundamental part of it: people have become so comfortable with running their mouths off on social media with no repercussions, they are actually surprised when there ARE repercussions in the real world.  It's easy to be a woke cyber-bully from the confines of your computer screen.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How quickly you can go from woke to un-woke when someone fights back.


Or, in at least two cases, very asleep.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> When my oldest son was younger, probably about 14, he got a little big for his pants. In front of the rest of his siblings he called me out and wanted to get a little sporty. So I followed through and smacked him down pretty hard.  After that he knew where I stood. Credibility is everything.




Unrelated to the thread but we were just talking about this at work, fewer and fewer parents any more are willing to discipline their kids. Anecdotally there is a 45 year old mom that lets her 12 year old hit, curse at her, and say derogatory comments in public about her.

My mom is now 50, I have 12 inches of height on her and out weigh her by about 50 pounds, I still fear my mothers backhand or worse a shoe being thrown.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Unrelated to the thread but we were just talking about this at work, fewer and fewer parents any more are willing to discipline their kids. Anecdotally there is a 45 year old mom that lets her 12 year old hit, curse at her, and say derogatory comments in public about her.


The changing social climate in the West around corporal discipline, along with the increased awareness of the very real legal risks to delivering any form of it in public, are probably the two biggest contributors to this change you're seeing in parenting behavior.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 27, 2020)

10-11ish years ago my 6ft 2 step-brother was being a dick to my special needs sister and my mother slapped the shit out of him.  He called the cops, they came up and saw the difference in height and weight and left.  Told his punk ass to behave. 

I went through OBC with a Mississippi State trooper, he tells a story about how he caught a 16 yr old drinking under a bridge with some old guys, knew the kid's dad and called him up. His dad rolls up to take custody and asks: you gonna arrest me if I hit my kid? He goes naw, can I watch? And the kid gets a beating. 

Telling you, that the lack of corporal punishment is having a severe effect on society today.  The lack of fearing your parents etc.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Telling you, that the lack of corporal punishment is having a severe effect on society today. The lack of fearing your parents etc.


Disagree because:

I was raised with daily beatings and was a shit kid.

My wife (now ex) and I made the decision early on to not hit our kids. (Twin boys).

At a young age they learned to say “yes dad, no dad” and to respect their mom like they did their own lives.

They are now 17 and still treat their mom with crazy respect and rarely, if ever, talk back to us. Daily, even in public they tell us that they love us.

I don’t want my kids to fear physical violence from me, I want them to fear disappointing me.

To add -

Too many parents wait until kids are near teenage before implementing rules and expectations.  That’s way too late.  It needs to begin when they are toddlers.  Something my ex used to fight me about, but now she thanks me.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 27, 2020)

There's a balance that is very blurred between discipline and beating the hell out of a kid that I think gets lost on some people either through actually believing that they need to beat the fuck out of their child. Or on the flipside clutching pearls when a child is spanked.

I should clarify that I'm not fearful of my mom or even of my dad from physical violence. But that the consequences of my actions instilled a respect in me and taught me not to be a little shit.




Ooh-Rah said:


> Too many parents wait until kids are near teenage before implementing rules and expectations. That’s way too late. It needs to begin when they are toddlers. Something my ex used to fight me about, but now she thanks me.



I think this is really the crux of it, I've had friends that were allowed to do whatever they wanted until their teens and it was too late at that point while others who had strong and firm parents from the age of being a toddler stay in the lines. 

But then again I don't have a kid so what do I know, if people are interested in discussing further I can make a thread otherwise I've derailed this one enough already.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Disagree because:
> 
> I was raised with daily beatings and was a shit kid.
> 
> ...



Ok, so this takes a bit more nuance to explain my position and time.  My better half works in family law for the state.  She puts the scumbags (moms, dads, rapists, everything) on the registry.  We often talk about where the line is between abuse and discipline.  

I honestly don't think physical beatings of a 16 year old do anything. Beating the snot out of a four year old with a switch (Adrian Peterson, hello) is abuse, not discipline. A short spanking is discipline. But corporal punishment when utilized needs to be a part of a holistic system with children. Can't just hit your child because you feel like it etc. So yes, most of this revolves around setting down rules and expectations when children are toddlers. 

My Step-brother was raised by his mother until he was 12 and my step-sister was 9.   They had zero rules and expectations. And their mom also ran a meth lab in their house.  Their mom was a PoS. We had rules in our house, and he rebelled for the 8 years he lived with us.  My step-sister rebelled some, mostly taking the cue from her brother but not nearly as much.  My Step-brother hasn't held down a job for longer than 3 months at a time and is somewhere in Oregon where he can't seem to pay his phone bill.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 27, 2020)

My dad died when I was 8.  My mom was a shitty mom for a bunch of reasons, but she did her best.  She did not know how to use 'escalating' discipline: for just about any fraction minor or major, she'd beat the shit out of me.  Shoe, belt, switch, hand, whatever.  And always out of anger.

I have spanked my kids, but not a lot, and never when I was angry.  I would always let the anger dissipate, tell my kids why I was spanking, help them see the errors of their ways, said a prayer with them, did the deed and moved on.  I have also engaged in other forms of discipline which would get parents in trouble: washing mouth out with soap and burpees the most egregious.

I think you can spank/hit without turning it into a beat-down.  Or not (hit, at all).  I think there is more than one way to skin that cat.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Back to the violence and false narratives. Why does the mainstream media continue to lie? Seriously.

Once again, this is not the narrative we were fed.  Remember, Blake showed up to break up an argument between two women? How does this fit that story and why isn't the media correcting it?!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298637979267682304


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 27, 2020)

Not sure how I woke up in an alternate universe this morning, but the NY Times has assembled a timeline of the kid with the rifle, and it doesn’t feed him to Ramsay Bolton’s dogs. From what they’ve found, and I know it’s still early on in the investigation, it’s not as clear cut as folks want for this murder charge.

Here’s a Twitter thread from a reporter with the NYT that sums it up if you’ve used up your free articles for the month.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Not sure how I woke up in an alternate universe this morning, but the NY Times has assembled a timeline of the kid with the rifle, and it doesn’t feed him to Ramsay Bolton’s dogs. From what they’ve found, and I know it’s still early on in the investigation, it’s not as clear cut as folks want for this murder charge.
> 
> Here’s a Twitter thread from a reporter with the NYT that sums it up if you’ve used up your free articles for the month.


I quit reading their timeline when they failed to mention dipshit #1 tossed some sort of incendiary at the kid with the rifle while he chased him. It's clear in every video of the incident and very material to the case.  So, just more shitty reporting...


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Back to the violence and false narratives. Why does the mainstream media continue to lie? Seriously.
> 
> Once again, this is not the narrative we were fed.  Remember, Blake showed up to break up an argument between two women? How does this fit that story and why isn't the media correcting it?!
> 
> ...


1.  It will almost always take more time for official police/dispatch 'narratives' to be disseminated to the media due to both reporting and official announcement regulations held by the LE department in question.
2.  The media reporting and citing the claims of eyewitnesses does not constitute 'lying'.
3.  No seems to have made any claims as to what got Blake there in the first place.  Multiple eyewitnesses reported what they saw occurring prior to the arrival of police.  You've added your own unsupported premise (why he showed up) to the 'narrative'and then taken exception to it based on the assumption you inserted.
4. What Blake did to prompt his girlfriend's 911 call and what people said they saw him doing prior to police arrival are neither necessarily the same thing nor mutually exclusive, absent more information showing otherwise.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I quit reading their timeline when they failed to mention dipshit #1 tossed some sort of *incendiary* at the kid with the rifle while he chased him. It's clear in every video of the incident and very material to the case.  So, just more shitty reporting...



I'll have to find it again. but the footage of the "molotov" is faked according to a few things I've seen.

Seems like it's a plastic bag with something in it for weight, but cant tell from the video what it is.


----------



## compforce (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I quit reading their timeline when they failed to mention dipshit #1 tossed some sort of incendiary at the kid with the rifle while he chased him. It's clear in every video of the incident and very material to the case.  So, just more shitty reporting...



He threw "something" at him.  I doubt it was an incendiary or brick.  It looked more like a plastic bag with some trash in it the way it floated to the ground.  However...there is an angle that shows that the guy chasing him had closed to hand to hand range and was reaching for the kid before he was shot.  I still haven't seen a single angle that shows that the kid was the one that actually pulled the trigger.  They'll have a tough time prosecuting that one if the kid didn't/doesn't confess to it.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

compforce said:


> They'll have a tough time prosecuting that one if the kid didn't/doesn't confess to it.


Timestamp 4:07 from the video link previously provided by @R.Caerbannog will make that fairly difficult.


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


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## compforce (Aug 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Timestamp 4:07 from the video link previously provided by @R.Caerbannog will make that fairly difficult.



I thought I had heard him say that somewhere, that's why I said it the way I did.  That would be a confession that he pulled the trigger, recorded on the 911 line (if that is who he was talking to) and in the video.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 27, 2020)

compforce said:


> He threw "something" at him.  I doubt it was an incendiary or brick.  It looked more like a plastic bag with some trash in it the way it floated to the ground.  However...there is an angle that shows that the guy chasing him had closed to hand to hand range and was reaching for the kid before he was shot.  I still haven't seen a single angle that shows that the kid was the one that actually pulled the trigger.  They'll have a tough time prosecuting that one if the kid didn't/doesn't confess to it.


When the bag is thrown it looks like there is something in it and it appears to make a clink sound when it lands. It also seems to me like the rioter kicks at the bag briefly for some reason. The times also pointed out people were firing their handguns before Kyle fired off his rifle


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 27, 2020)

So was it an argument between two of his girlfriend's?  One he had


Locksteady said:


> 1.  It will almost always take more time for official police/dispatch 'narratives' to be disseminated to the media due to both reporting and official announcement regulations held by the LE department in question.
> 2.  The media reporting and citing the claims of eyewitnesses does not constitute 'lying'.
> 3.  No seems to have made any claims as to what got Blake there in the first place.  Multiple eyewitnesses reported what they saw occurring prior to the arrival of police.  You've added your own unsupported premise (why he showed up) to the 'narrative'and then taken exception to it based on the assumption you inserted.
> 4. What Blake did to prompt his girlfriend's 911 call and what people said they saw him doing prior to police arrival are neither necessarily the same thing nor mutually exclusive, absent more information showing otherwise.


You can put "girlfriend" in quotes.  Not sure why anyone doesn't break up with, but chooses a "break" with someone who allegedly committed an act of sexual violence against them.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 27, 2020)

Here’s a pic of the article from the NYT


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 27, 2020)

compforce said:


> He threw "something" at him.  I doubt it was an incendiary or brick.  It looked more like a plastic bag with some trash in it the way it floated to the ground.  However...there is an angle that shows that the guy chasing him had closed to hand to hand range and was reaching for the kid before he was shot.  I still haven't seen a single angle that shows that the kid was the one that actually pulled the trigger.  They'll have a tough time prosecuting that one if the kid didn't/doesn't confess to it.


Regarding the incendiary, I've seen similar setups in live stream videos being used to burn down garbage trucks. Spitballing, I think these turds are making crude incendiary devices using trash bags, accelerates, and/or magnesium. 

Two night ago I saw an idiot put a burning trash bag and assorted junk on a garbage truck and thought, "Wow, that's retarded. It aint gonna burn". Later in the live stream the truck caught flame where the idiots had piled that shit on. Considering the Popular Mechanics article on DIY thermite, to tear down statutes, I think anything is possible.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Back to the violence and _false narratives_. *Why does the mainstream media continue to lie*? Seriously.
> 
> Once again, this is not the narrative we were fed.  Remember, Blake showed up to break up an argument between two women? How does this fit that story and why isn't the media correcting it?!
> 
> ...



"This is not the narrative we were fed". _Think about that statement for a second._ "This is not the narrative we were fed". Let me repeat that ~~~~> ? 





Blizzard said:


> "ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE NARRATIVE WE WERE FED"



""""*Police scanner audio* in Kenosha indicates a woman called 911 to report Jacob Blake was at her home & wasn’t supposed to be, & had stolen her keys. *Responding police* were made aware of *Blake’s arrest warrant for domestic abuse* & a *felony sex crime*. #KenoshaRiots #BlackLivesMatter""""

False Narratives? I suppose that depends on which false narrative you choose to believe and not do due diligence.

Which MSM is lying? Seriously?

*Police Scanner Audio* is ALWAYS *FOIA* ( Freedom of Information Act) and *WILL* be made public soon.

*Correct What*? We WILL find out who's lying. It just takes time and Patience.

Blake's arrest warrant for domestic abuse & a felony sex crime are by now common knowledge and do come in to play when he was told to stop and obey commands from the Law Enforcement Officers. He chose not to Comply. He was Tased to no effect. Was he reaching for the knife in the front seat? We don't know. Time and patience for the investigation to come to completion is all we can do at this point.

This could be an eyeopening moment for you B, but I'm sure I'll get smoked for posting this. The media Lies to you every single day. You have to change the channel and research. Don't just watch one channel or use one media source for your news. Maybe you don't anyway, but MSM are treacherous leeches and they lurk everywhere.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 27, 2020)

Special shout out to all you listeners in SS-land. I perceive a lot of people here saying, “Hold on, let’s see what the actual facts are” on multiple fronts, and I like it.

And no, I’m not being sarcastic and no, I have not been hacked. And I’m sober. #PositiveReinforcement


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> And I’m sober. #PositiveReinforcement


We'll need a link for that.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> "This is not the narrative we were fed". _Think about that statement for a second._ "This is not the narrative we were fed". Let me repeat that ~~~~> ?
> 
> """"*Police scanner audio* in Kenosha indicates a woman called 911 to report Jacob Blake was at her home & wasn’t supposed to be, & had stolen her keys. *Responding police* were made aware of *Blake’s arrest warrant for domestic abuse* & a *felony sex crime*. #KenoshaRiots #BlackLivesMatter""""
> 
> ...


I hear you and agree.  Although it may not have come across this way, my question was really kind of rhetorical.

The fact is we live in a society that is irrational and quickly jumps to conclusions.  Sometimes, facts may not matter either, especially when actions fit a viewpoint we want them to support.  We've seen this repeatedly over the past several months.  Technology provides us with a lot of data but not necessarily the skills or time to process it.  As a result, we have all kinds of knee jerk reactions to events (as much as I try to step back, I include myself in this at times).  Unfortunately, we often don't take the time to correct that rush to judgment or it's too late to correct it.

As a general statement, the media has really fallen into this trap and it's troubling to me.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I hear you and agree.  Although it may not have come across this way, my question was really kind of rhetorical.
> 
> The fact is we live in a society that is irrational and quickly jumps to conclusions.  Sometimes, facts may not matter either, especially when actions fit a viewpoint we want them to support.  We've seen this repeatedly over the past several months.  Technology provides us with a lot of data but not necessarily the skills or time to process it.  As a result, we have all kinds of knee jerk reactions to events (as much as I try to step back, I include myself in this at times).  Unfortunately, we often don't take the time to correct that rush to judgment or it's too late to correct it.
> 
> *As a general statement, the media has really fallen into this trap and it's troubling to me.*



The only part I disagree with is the last bit (bolded). The media hasn't "fallen into this trap," the media "is" the trap. What's happening in America right now is what they want to see. They benefit from it, they approve of it, and they want it to continue. Objectivity went out the window a looooong time ago and now it's all about "winning." Winning, and hating.

The most recent example that springs to mind is CNN's "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron that they ran when their man on the ground was literally standing in front of a burning storefront.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 27, 2020)

"Had a knife, but otherwise unarmed".

This is a quote attributed to Mark Twain and reprised here by Denzel Washington:

"If you don't read the newspapers, you're uninformed; if you read the newspapers, you're misinformed."


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> 1.  It will almost always take more time for official police/dispatch 'narratives' to be disseminated to the media due to both reporting and official announcement regulations held by the LE department in question.  *Agreed. Not a question.*
> 2.  The media reporting and citing the claims of eyewitnesses does not constitute 'lying'.
> *If you're a journalist and not verifying facts before you report them, you need to state this and update your story once you do verify them. Not being forthright with info is disingenuous.*
> 3.  No seems to have made any claims as to what got Blake there in the first place.  Multiple eyewitnesses reported what they saw occurring prior to the arrival of police.  You've added your own unsupported premise (why he showed up) to the 'narrative'and then taken exception to it based on the assumption you inserted.
> ...


I don't have the time to post lengthy responses to your post but added some brief responses in bold.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> The only part I disagree with is the last bit (bolded). The media hasn't "fallen into this trap," the media "is" the trap. What's happening in America right now is what they want to see. They benefit from it, they approve of it, and they want it to continue. Objectivity went out the window a looooong time ago and now it's all about "winning." Winning, and hating.
> 
> The most recent example that springs to mind is CNN's "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron that they ran when their man on the ground was literally standing in front of a burning storefront.
> 
> View attachment 35491


Fair callout and I agree. 👍


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 27, 2020)

The media and law enforcement community (specifically DAs) seem to feed one another.  DAs rush to seemingly overcharge before investigations are barely initiated, and the media are complicit in assigning guilt based on this fervor.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't have the time to post lengthy responses to your post but added some brief responses in bold.


No worries.  I appreciate the response.





			
				Locksteady said:
			
		

> 1. It will almost always take more time for official police/dispatch 'narratives' to be disseminated to the media due to both reporting and official announcement regulations held by the LE department in question. *Agreed. Not a question.*
> 2. The media reporting and citing the claims of eyewitnesses does not constitute 'lying'.
> *If you're a journalist and not verifying facts before you report them, you need to state this and update your story once you do verify them. Not being forthright with info is lying. They didn't ever claim it was a fact.  The reported what other people said and cited them.  It is no one but the reader's fault for confusing a claim that the media outlet makes a point of citing to the source with media itself claiming it as a fact.*
> 3. No seems to have made any claims as to what got Blake there in the first place. Multiple eyewitnesses reported what they saw occurring prior to the arrival of police. You've added your own unsupported premise (why he showed up) to the 'narrative'and then taken exception to it based on the assumption you inserted.
> ...


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Not too weird. Kenosha sits right on the border of IL. The kid's town of Antioch just happens to be on the IL side of the border a few miles away.  To me the fleeing charge is silly; it's a short and reasonable drive. He simply went home.
> 
> I'm sure they'll try to make an example out of him. I don't know how the law reads in WI but a murder one charge seems overreacting based on what little I've seen so far.


Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Rabid Badger (Aug 27, 2020)

@Marauder06 you stole my thunder and this entire page is diarrhea cover response.  ~~~~>


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 27, 2020)

Rabid Badger said:


> @Marauder06 you stole my thunder and this entire page is diarrhea cover response.  ~~~~>



It's a gift, brother.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The media and law enforcement community (specifically DAs) seem to feed one another.  DAs rush to seemingly overcharge before investigations are barely initiated, and the media are complicit in assigning guilt based on this fervor.


Yup! It's alarming when the bureaucrats tasked with upholding our laws are subversive ideologues or in the pockets of our enemies. Might also explain why those affiliated with the far left are given so much leeway.


Spoiler: Picture




Minnesota's Attorney General and ANTIFA leader Luis Enrique Marquez.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 27, 2020)

It’s scary how once again the Media has presented a false narrative with regarding the Kyle Rittenhouse shooting. Already he is being presented as some white supremacist who was running around shooting people at pleasure smh. This also from CNN more charges brought up Kenosha shooting suspect faces more homicide charges


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## Cookie_ (Aug 27, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> It’s scary how once again the Media has presented a *false narrative* with regarding the Kyle Rittenhouse shooting. Already he is being presented as some white supremacist who was running around shooting people at pleasure smh. This also from CNN more charges brought up Kenosha shooting suspect faces more homicide charges



It's about as accurate a narrative as the "the guys he shot were violent pedophile felons" narrative going around.

I don't give a damn about anything someone did prior to this incident, unless it was literally "I cant wait to shoot those subhuman commies" or "I can wait to light a fascist fuck on fire".

All that matters is what happened to lead to the shooting, and the shooting itself.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 27, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's about as accurate a narrative as the "the guys he shot were violent pedophile felons" narrative going around.
> 
> I don't give a damn about anything someone did prior to this incident, unless it was literally "I cant wait to shoot those subhuman commies" or "I can wait to light a fascist fuck on fire".
> 
> All that matters is what happened to lead to the shooting, and the shooting itself.


Based on what I saw on the video it looks line it was self defense but I’m no lawyer.  I  also don’t know what led to him being chased by the first Rioter. However it seems only the ones who appear in the videos were  shot or killed so the narrative of he already shot someone before the video footage doesn’t seem to hold water


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## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 27, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> 3.  No seems to have made any claims as to what got Blake there in the first place.  Multiple eyewitnesses reported what they saw occurring prior to the arrival of police.  *You've added your own unsupported premise (why he showed up)* to the 'narrative'and then taken exception to it based on the assumption you inserted.
> 4. What Blake did to prompt his girlfriend's 911 call and what people said they saw him doing prior to police arrival are neither necessarily the same thing nor mutually exclusive, absent more information showing otherwise.



Not true. That's the exact same narrative I was told a few days ago, before I even knew about the incident. "Guy was breaking up a fight between two women and cops ended up shooting him." I was also told that the cops were there to break up that female fight Based on what? Based on lies.

There you go again, telling people that they're adding their own spin on a story. Blizzard is not the only one who heard that BS if people were telling that to me the day after the incident.

Obviously some news outlets don't mind reporting whatever before the facts are in. Sounds just like "hands up don't shoot".


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 28, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Not true. That's the exact same narrative I was told a few days ago, before I even knew about the incident. "Guy was breaking up a fight between two women and cops ended up shooting him."


Please carefully reread the post, as it seems you're missing the central difference in the description you just gave (which matches the eyewitness claims that the media mentioned and cited) and what Blizzard stated the media 'lied' about.





BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> There you go again, telling people that they're adding their own spin on a story.


If you're still bothered about the previous discussion, I'd say this is neither the time nor place to bring it back up yet again.  It would probably be more appropriate for you to message me directly if that is still fueling any residual animus in our board interactions, rather than risk derailing the thread again.

Ball is in your court for that, but as before I will again willfully refrain from resurrecting that discussion with you here and I encourage you to please join me in that.





BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Blizzard is not the only one who heard that BS if people were telling that to me the day after the incident.


There is a small but important difference between the story you're defending having heard and what Blizzard used as his premise for accusing the media of lying.

Blizzard's claim that the media lied was set on his own projected premise that 'breaking up an argument between two women' was *why 'he showed up' in the first place*, when no one ever claimed to know why he was in the area in the first place.  Breaking up a fight was just what people claim to have witnessed before the cops showed up, which says nothing about why he was originally there.

So, what Blizzard is claiming about the media lying is flawed on two front:

1. He took what eyewitnesses reported seeing and then, yes, added his own unsupported claim that that was why Blake 'showed up' in the first place - which is the only thing that would be at odds with the police report that indicated a different reason for why Blake was at his girlfriends prior to whatever the neighbors reported seeing.

2.  Even if an eyewitness had in fact claimed that breaking up an argument between two women was why Blake was even over at his girlfriend's in the first place, that would make the eyewitness the liar, not the media that reported (and cited back to them) what eyewitnesses claimed to have seen and known about why he showed up.

The only grievance left to make at this point is about the fact that the media often tends to report the first available hearsay.  I agree this can be a problem depending on what people -do- with that information, but the outlet cannot be faulted if they make a point of distinguishing that what they are reporting is hearsay from people claiming to be witnesses.

They met that measure.


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## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 28, 2020)

I will just say that especially with the media, as with everyone else, before you "report" anything (ie. state it as truth), you should get more than one side of the story.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 28, 2020)




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## Devildoc (Aug 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's about as accurate a narrative as the "the guys he shot were violent pedophile felons" narrative going around.
> 
> I don't give a damn about anything someone did prior to this incident, unless it was literally "I cant wait to shoot those subhuman commies" or "I can wait to light a fascist fuck on fire".
> 
> *All that matters is what happened to lead to the shooting, and the shooting itself.*



They did in fact have a history of violence and offenses against minors.  That is not a false narrative; what is false is using it as justification because, as he could not have known that, it is not germane to the argument.  That said, it ended up a public service killing.  I hope of all the things he loses sleep over, that is not one of them.  He's in enough hot water regardless of the fact that the dearly departed were booger-eaters.

The italicized and bolded is indeed 'the bottom line.'


----------



## 757 (Aug 28, 2020)




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## 757 (Aug 28, 2020)

Interesting that these people targeted the man who created the bill to stop no knock warrants 🤦🏼‍♂️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299217655816216576


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2020)

Le sigh...this thread, the videos.  Scumbags. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299207662043828224


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 28, 2020)

Brian should’ve never stopped walking.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2020)

757 said:


> Interesting that these people targeted the man who created the bill to stop no knock warrants 🤦🏼‍♂️
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299217655816216576


This ain't about justice, it's about compliance.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's about as accurate a narrative as the "the guys he shot were violent pedophile felons" narrative going around.
> 
> I don't give a damn about anything someone did prior to this incident, unless it was literally "I cant wait to shoot those subhuman commies" or "I can wait to light a fascist fuck on fire".
> 
> *All that matters is what happened to lead to the shooting, and the shooting itself.*



How far prior to the shoot do you consider important?
Antifa/BLM are making throwing incendiaries, that is part of the timeline, weather 30 sec prior or 24 hr prior.  Not burning everything down in the days prior may have changed the actions of everyone involved.
Likewise his criminal past would be evidence of a violent nature, that demonstrated itself the night he used the "n-word" against black people, and dared someone to shoot him.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2020)

There have been close to 40 people killed during this period of unrest, if we take the Rittenhouse event out of that, most of the people have been killed by other "protesters".  How is that Justice?


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There have been close to 40 people killed during this period of unrest, if we take the Rittenhouse event out of that, most of the people have been killed by other "protesters".  How is that Justice?


Source?


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## Jaknight (Aug 28, 2020)

https://www.mystateline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2020/08/Rittenhouse.pdf


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## Cookie_ (Aug 28, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> How far prior to the shoot do you consider important?
> Antifa/BLM are making throwing incendiaries, that is part of the timeline, weather 30 sec prior or 24 hr prior.  Not burning everything down in the days prior may have changed the actions of everyone involved.
> Likewise his criminal past would be evidence of a violent nature, that demonstrated itself the night he used the "n-word" against black people, and dared someone to shoot him.



Pulling up charges someone may or may not have had from 5-20 years ago for an excuse to preemptively attack them is just as valid as digging into the kids facebook and trying to show he was a jr cadet and "hopeful cop" to project that he wanted to be a vigilante; it doesn't really hold water for me.

That video of the guy yelling "shoot me n****a" is definitely part of what I'd consider important info; any other videos of those involved around the timeline would be valid too.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 28, 2020)

Additional perspective FWIW (not sure anything new/relevant is really being shared)...
We Witnessed The Kenosha Shootings. Here’s What Really Happened - The Daily Caller


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Pulling up charges someone may or may not have had from 5-20 years ago for an excuse to preemptively attack them is just as valid as digging into the kids facebook and trying to show he was a jr cadet and "hopeful cop" to project that he wanted to be a vigilante; it doesn't really hold water for me.



I agree.  What'll be interesting to see is 'how far back' each side--Wood and the DA--are willing to go and if the judge is going to rule in favor/against one over the other.  I think in some cases attorneys are given latitude based on past patterns of behavior.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Additional perspective FWIW (not sure anything new/relevant is really being shared)...
> We Witnessed The Kenosha Shootings. Here’s What Really Happened - The Daily Caller



If the author's quotes at the end are true (that the kid really said this, and he himself heard it), it kinds blows murder 1 out of the water.  Not saying there may not be a thousand other valid charges.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Pulling up charges someone may or may not have had from 5-20 years ago for an excuse to preemptively attack them...



Kind of ironic given the SJW movement with cancel culture. He was just canceled in a way others haven't been.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Source?



As of 3 JUN, 13 people had died during the "protests" [riots]. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0200603-xrc3akhpn5bbvehumr7v2z2com-story.html

Deaths in the CHOP: Another Fatal Shooting in Seattle’s ‘CHOP’ Protest Zone

Deaths in Louisville and other shootings from protests: 1 Dead After Man Shoots Into Crowd at Breonna Taylor Protest Site
In July from the Not Fucking Around Coalition. Three Injured as Rival Armed Militias Converge on Louisville

The specific number I got was now that I think of it was 32, when you include the two in Kenosha. Sourcing that from TimCast.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> As of 3 JUN, 13 people had died during the "protests" [riots]. These are the 13 people who have died since George Floyd protests started last week
> 
> Deaths in the CHOP: Another Fatal Shooting in Seattle’s ‘CHOP’ Protest Zone
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## compforce (Aug 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If the author's quotes at the end are true (that the kid really said this, and he himself heard it), it kinds blows murder 1 out of the water.  Not saying there may not be a thousand other valid charges.


The kid said it, it's a part of the earlier interview that he did that is mentioned in some of the writeups.  It's on video.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 28, 2020)

Prosecutors in George Floyd's case say that they'll seek an "upward departure" in sentencing if any of the officers are convicted.  Here's their argument:


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Prosecutors in George Floyd's case say that they'll seek an "upward departure" in sentencing if any of the officers are convicted.  Here's their argument:
> View attachment 35539


Body cameras will show otherwise, along with some footage the brings the "kneeling on GF" into question.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Prosecutors in George Floyd's case say that they'll seek an "*upward departure*" in sentencing if any of the officers are convicted.  Here's their argument:
> View attachment 35539



I didn't even know that was a thing before this post.

*Upward departure* means departure that effects a sentence greater than a sentence that could be imposed under the applicable guideline range or a sentence that is otherwise greater than the guideline sentence. "Depart upward" means grant an upward departure.

Upward departure | legal definition of Upward departure by Law Insider.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 28, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I didn't even know that was a thing before this post.
> 
> *Upward departure* means departure that effects a sentence greater than a sentence that could be imposed under the applicable guideline range or a sentence that is otherwise greater than the guideline sentence. "Depart upward" means grant an upward departure.
> 
> Upward departure | legal definition of Upward departure by Law Insider.


Good thing MN isn’t a death penalty state, otherwise I’m certain the prosecutors would try their damndest to get all four sentenced to die.

ETA: I believe it would be an unsuccessful attempt to sentence them to death, if it were an option.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 28, 2020)

Also, defense attorneys for one of the officers have requested dismissal or change of venue:
Kueng seeks dismissal or change of venue in George Floyd case


----------



## 757 (Aug 28, 2020)




----------



## Rapid (Aug 28, 2020)




----------



## Jaknight (Aug 28, 2020)

The Mayor of Portland has to be either a secret Antifa or Trump supporter


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> The Mayor of Portland has to be either a secret Antifa or Trump supporter View attachment 35549



I wonder how well that letter is going to age.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 28, 2020)




----------



## Jaknight (Aug 28, 2020)

Lawyer did a breakdown on the Kyle shooting good read I think The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 28, 2020)

Wow!

St. Paul Police Department out of fucks to give, Get some!


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 28, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Lawyer did a breakdown on the Kyle shooting good read I think The Kenosha Shootings / Kyle Rittenhouse: A Tactical and Legal Analysis: UPDATED: 1st Shooter ID'd? - AR15.COM



Grade A analysis. Thanks for sharing.

This is looking like the sort of situation I've been expecting to happen;

Unrelated parties(grey camo pants guy) popping off shots near armed [protestors/counter-protesters/rioters/boog bois/whatever you wanna define them as], which creates generalized chaos as people react to the situational fog and engage the first weapon/political enemy they see.


----------



## AWP (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Additional perspective FWIW (not sure anything new/relevant is really being shared)...
> We Witnessed The Kenosha Shootings. Here’s What Really Happened - The Daily Caller



A 17 YO had no business being armed, much less being there in the first place.

"Warning shot guy"...fuck whoever that was. Here's another person that shouldn't have taken a firearm that night.

The guy shot first had zero business trying to disarm anyone. That's asking for a bullet.

Two more try to disarm the shooter with one even attacking him. That's also how you take a bullet.

This was 100% avoidable, but a whole bunch of stupidity on both sides showed up looking for a fight. There's the real tragedy, Americans consider it some type of honor to injure Americans. Disgusting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's about as accurate a narrative as the "the guys he shot were violent pedophile felons" narrative going around.
> 
> I don't give a damn about anything someone did prior to this incident, unless it was literally "I cant wait to shoot those subhuman commies" or "I can wait to light a fascist fuck on fire".
> 
> All that matters is what happened to lead to the shooting, and the shooting itself.



Convicted pedophile with gun at protest.  Pretty sure he was committing a few crimes of his own right there.

But as we've continued to see, these are not protests.  These are riots and the rioters are armed.
________

The problem with catch and release is...oh yeah recidivism.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299452603353317376
Oh this is also great. Ted Wheeler sends a letter to the POTUS and they're outside his condo.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1299562132699115526


----------



## AWP (Aug 29, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Commies ain't people dude. Especially when you factor in what they have in store for the rest of us and the *millions *they've killed elsewhere. Disgusting is trying to humanize a death cult.



This is such a trashy take I won't even address it beyond this post. 

Good luck in your future endeavors.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 29, 2020)

It's really hard for me to condemn the kid, even though it's something I would never do, unless it was my streets they were destroying.

When the breakdown of law and order is so bad hundreds of structures in a city get burned (Minneapolis), police and government are ineffective, only the regular people are left to stand up for what's right.


----------



## chickenrappa (Aug 29, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> It's really hard for me to condemn the kid, even though it's something I would never do, unless it was my streets they were destroying.
> 
> When the breakdown of law and order is so bad hundreds of structures in a city get burned (Minneapolis), police and government are ineffective, only the regular people are left to stand up for what's right.



That pretty much sums it up for me.


----------



## Rapid (Aug 29, 2020)

17-year-olds should _never _have to feel like they need to pick up a rifle and go out to defend their country, but then so did Audie Murphy and countless others. Hardly the same, but the sentiment is there.

I believe Kyle *shouldn't* have gotten involved in all of this, and now it's going to stay with him for the rest of his life. But at the end of the day, I guess only he'll be able to say, years from now (post-trial and post-reflection), whether it was all worth it in the end. All that being said, he handled himself as well as possible given the challenging circumstances he was faced with.

The meme I posted on the previous page was just to poke fun at the hypocrisy of Leftists who only seems to believe in borders when it suits them, like in this case. State lines and all other borders very much DO matter.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2020)

Having L. Lin Wood take on Rittenhouse's defense, says a lot.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article245330630.html


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 29, 2020)

Gosh I hate GoFundMe and their selective morality.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2020)

Another update.  Both cases are getting complicated.

New details in Kenosha shootings: Jacob Blake tasered twice; Rittenhouse attorney says he did not transport gun


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 29, 2020)

From the NY Post:

This is why Jacob Blake had a warrant out for his arrest

So something we were also missing earlier. In this thread it has been posted the arrest warrant filing by me that was dated 7 July. As those were charges filed. His "Girlfriend", well at least the one who called 911 had a restraining order in against him forbidding him from contact with her.

Read the article, it's also explicit with language.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 29, 2020)

a bad point for the kid is, Wisconsin law doesn’t allow him to possess/carry a firearm at 17 years of age, think there is a hunting defense...but that doesn’t help him here. Should be an interesting case tho.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2020)

Whether you like him or not, Colion Noir has a good break down.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 29, 2020)

Good post, good break down.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Another update.  Both cases are getting complicated.
> 
> New details in Kenosha shootings: Jacob Blake tasered twice; Rittenhouse attorney says he did not transport gun


I don't understand the whole transport gun argument.  Maybe one of you can help me with this one.  I'm not aware of any law that prohibits anyone from lawfully bringing a firearm across state lines unless the firearm is illegal to possess in one of those states.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't understand the whole transport gun argument.  Maybe one of you can help me with this one.  I'm not aware of any law that prohibits anyone from lawfully bringing a firearm across state lines unless the firearm is illegal to possess in one of those states.



New Jersey is a state that makes it difficult to cross state lines with a firearm.  Here's a list of briefs on every state, specifically as it pertains to handguns.

*Have Gun Will Travel... Transporting Your Handgun Across the U.S.*


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> New Jersey is a state that makes it difficult to cross state lines with a firearm.  Here's a list of briefs on every state, specifically as it pertains to handguns.
> 
> *Have Gun Will Travel... Transporting Your Handgun Across the U.S.*


I understand these things but this idea that simply crossing a state line with a firearm is illegal, especially going from IL to WI, is just odd and I don't know where it stems from.  Living just across WI western border, I've travelled there many times with firearms.  Many from MN hunt in WI, and vice versa.

I'm not an expert on gun laws but I do abide by them. I've travelled to many states with firearms, both via car and via airplane. Sure, you have to comply with the laws of the states you travel to but I've never heard of any law that prohibits "crossing state lines" or similar, especially for long guns.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 29, 2020)

^Anyone who doesn't like Colion Noir is racist.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> a bad point for the kid is, Wisconsin law doesn’t allow him to possess/carry a firearm at 17 years of age, think there is a hunting defense...but that doesn’t help him here. Should be an interesting case tho.


There are some modifiers to WI statute 948.60 , which defines firearm restrictions for those under 18, that make it allowable for those over 16 yo. Section 3c is the pertinent section here. The complete 948.60 is really long but it states:


Spoiler: Full text of WI Statute 948.60



"*948.60  Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.*
(1)  In this section, “dangerous weapon" means any firearm, loaded or unloaded; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a); metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles; a nunchaku or any similar weapon consisting of 2 sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather; a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand; a shuriken or any similar pointed star-like object intended to injure a person when thrown; or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends.
(2) 
(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Except as provided in par. (c), any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony.
(c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another.
(d) A person under 17 years of age who has violated this subsection is subject to the provisions of ch. 938 unless jurisdiction is waived under s. 938.18 or the person is subject to the jurisdiction of a court of criminal jurisdiction under s. 938.183.
(3) 
(a) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a dangerous weapon when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult. This section does not apply to an adult who transfers a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age for use only in target practice under the adult's supervision or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the adult's supervision.
(b) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who is a member of the armed forces or national guard and who possesses or is armed with a dangerous weapon in the line of duty. This section does not apply to an adult who is a member of the armed forces or national guard and who transfers a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age in the line of duty.
(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
History: 1987 a. 332; 1991 a. 18, 139; 1993 a. 98; 1995 a. 27, 77; 1997 a. 248; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 163; 2011 a. 35.
Sub. (2) (b) does not set a standard for civil liability, and a violation of sub. (2) (b) does not constitute negligence per se. Logarto v. Gustafson, 998 F. Supp. 998 (1998)."


The exceptions/modifiers in 3c above are important and what potentially changes the age to 16.  We'll see what applies for this kid but not quite as cut and dry as it may appear.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Sure, you have to comply with the laws of the states you travel to but I've never heard of any law that prohibits "crossing state lines" or similar, especially for long guns.


New Jersey and especially New York both have ridiculously stringent state laws regarding traveling through with firearms.  In fact, according to the NRA-ILA's guide to interstate transportation of firearms, if you are stopping in New York on a layover, your safest bet is to ship your firearm to your arrival destination.  A quick Google search will turn up quite a few news articles from the last few years telling of airline passengers who had a layover or were otherwise redirected to JFK/LaGuardia with a firearm in their checked baggage without the proper state licensure regarding the possession of same, and were promptly hauled out of the airport and incarcerated for possession of said firearms, FOPA be damned.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> New Jersey and especially New York both have ridiculously stringent state laws regarding traveling through with firearms.  In fact, according to the NRA-ILA's guide to interstate transportation of firearms, if you are stopping in New York on a layover, your safest bet is to ship your firearm to your arrival destination.  A quick Google search will turn up quite a few news articles from the last few years telling of airline passengers who had a layover or were otherwise redirected to JFK/LaGuardia with a firearm in their checked baggage without the proper state licensure regarding the possession of same, and were promptly hauled out of the airport and incarcerated for possession of said firearms, FOPA be damned.


I've never travelled to NY/NJ or CA with firearms and know they have some goofy laws.  I always check the states before travelling.  But I'm still not aware of any that simply prohibit crossing a state line with a firearm. I don't think it exists, especially as it pertains to this case from IL to WI.  

I'm totally willing to proven wrong and just want to know what those making these claims are possibly referring to; seems like a bunch of made up nonsense from someone that watches too many movies.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've never travelled to NY/NJ or CA with firearms and know they have some goofy laws.  I always check the states before travelling.  But I'm still not aware of any that simply prohibit crossing a state line with a firearm. I don't think it exists, especially as it pertains to this case from IL to WI.
> 
> I'm totally willing to proven wrong and just want to know what those making these claims are possibly referring to; seems like a bunch of made up nonsense from someone that watches too many movies.


The FOPA is supposed to offer protection against laws that would interfere with crossing state lines.  I was just offering up NY as an example of a state that does penalize for simply crossing a state line with a firearm that they haven't otherwise licensed, even if it's a redirected flight that would have otherwise never have touched down on NY state soil.  I also acknowledge that WI most likely doesn't have a law that strict.  Stupid laws are out there, and those damned New Yorkers just can't seem to keep their stupidity contained to just New York.  

My line of thought regarding those who think that he violated laws with regards to interstate transport are either of the opinion that it should be illegal, and couldn't be pissed to actually research to see if it is, or they see what New York's law is, and believe that such ridiculousness is more widespread (or federally mandated).  The fact that the kid is 17 does complicate things a bit.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> There are some modifiers to WI statute 948.60 , which defines firearm restrictions for those under 18, that make it allowable for those over 16 yo. Section 3c is the pertinent section here. The complete 948.60 is really long but it states:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Full text of WI Statute 948.60
> ...



Don;t think the hunting or sporting (target practice) exceptions or Certificate will help him here.


----------



## Locksteady (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I've never travelled to NY/NJ or CA with firearms and know they have some goofy laws.  I always check the states before travelling.  But I'm still not aware of any that simply prohibit crossing a state line with a firearm. I don't think it exists, especially as it pertains to this case from IL to WI.
> 
> I'm totally willing to proven wrong and just want to know what those making these claims are possibly referring to; seems like a bunch of made up nonsense from someone that watches too many movies.


That is understandable, especially since the fact that interstate travel with a legally registered firearm in one's name is not considered a federal crime.

However, the fact that Rittenhouse's lawyer is taking it seriously enough to assert that his client did not transport the gun across state lines should be a clear indicator that it may not actually be movie-derived nonsense.

If it is established he transported the firearm between states, he is then open to being charged on at least three different accounts related to his age, ownership status, and the condition of the firearm while in transit.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Don;t think the hunting or sporting (target practice) exceptions or Certificate will help him here.


It's broader than that but we'll see.  If it holds up, that charge would be a Class A misdemeanor (gross misdemeanor).


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 29, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> However, the fact that Rittenhouse's lawyer is taking it seriously enough to assert that his client did not transport the gun across state lines should be a clear indicator that it may not actually be movie-derived nonsense.


Agreed, that this would seem to be the case but that's not in the list of charges I've actually seen. That's why it's confusing to me and the reason for my question. Why is this being made an issue?


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 29, 2020)

it's just a sound bite and sounds bad.


----------



## compforce (Aug 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Agreed, that this would seem to be the case but that's not in the list of charges I've actually seen. That's why it's confusing to me and the reason for my question. Why is this being made an issue?



Pre-emptive to kill the noise on social media about "illegally crossing state lines" before that is ingrained in the jury narrative.  It also takes it away as proof of intent for the 1st degree murder charge, weakening the case.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 29, 2020)

This is a very interesting case.  I think the shootings were justified, but the series of events leading up to it might not have been (i.e. 17 year old with a gun).

With my very limited understanding of self-defense laws, you can't create the situation and then claim self-defense when it goes sideways. IFAIK he had a right to be where he was, and to do what he did (to a point), but I don't think he had a right to do it with a gun.

I think the video of him at the beginning of the evening will be detrimental to his defense more than it will be helpful.

I also think that whoever gave him the gun is going to catch a felony charge that is going to stick.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 29, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> With my very limited understanding of self-defense laws, you can't create the situation and then claim self-defense when it goes sideways


20+ years of CCW and tactical pistol classes agree with you.

If shit happens, you deal with it.

If you go back and get your gun and begin looking for shit?  Well you sir are a prosecutor’s resume notch.


----------



## compforce (Aug 29, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> With my very limited understanding of self-defense laws, you can't create the situation and then claim self-defense when it goes sideways. IFAIK he had a right to be where he was, and to do what he did (to a point), but I don't think he had a right to do it with a gun.



Wisconsin law is pretty clear that if you disengage in a way that shows the other person you are no longer aggressive and the other person chases and corners you, you have a renewed right of self defense.  Even if whatever caused the first person to chase him was antagonized  by KR, at the point he ran away and the first guy chased him into close quarters, it "probably" became self-defense again. (I'm not a lawyer so I have to caveat that based on my readings of the written law)



> A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defence (sic) against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defence (sic), but* the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant*.
> *The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.*
> A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defence." (Wisconsin Updated Statutes 2019  939.48(2))



If my reading is correct, then his running down the street before being attacked by the other 3 falls in the same category.


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Aug 29, 2020)

compforce said:


> Wisconsin law is pretty clear that if you disengage in a way that shows the other person you are no longer aggressive and the other person chases and corners you, you have a renewed right of self defense.  Even if whatever caused the first person to chase him was antagonized  by KR, at the point he ran away and the first guy chased him into close quarters, it "probably" became self-defense again. (I'm not a lawyer so I have to caveat that based on my readings of the written law)
> 
> 
> 
> If my reading is correct, then his running down the street before being attacked by the other 3 falls in the same category.



Beat me to it. 

Essentially, if you start shit, "stand your ground" becomes "duty to retreat". If retreat doesn't work, stand your ground comes back into play.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 29, 2020)

The end of the Colin Nior video on the last page talks about the self defense angle...its a good video and break down.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 29, 2020)

So for as disgustingly liberal the statehouse in Sacramento is, Sacramento is actually a fairly conservative city.  The Mayor, The Sheriff, and the DA ain't dealing with shit.  Expect to get prosecuted and go to prison.

Officials Blame Sacramento Antifa For Vandalism After Jacob Blake Protest, Call In National Guard


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So for as disgustingly liberal the statehouse in Sacramento is, Sacramento is actually a fairly conservative city.  The Mayor, The Sheriff, and the DA ain't dealing with shit.  Expect to get prosecuted and go to prison.
> 
> Officials Blame Sacramento Antifa For Vandalism After Jacob Blake Protest, Call In National Guard



I'm sure they don't want the same problem as NY where their middle and upper crust are reading the writing on the wall and bouncing to greener pastures.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

Person who was killed in the "clash" between Trump Supporters and the Black Bloc in Portland was a Trump Supporter per reports. 

Patriot Prayer founder: Dead man in Portland was a supporter


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 30, 2020)

I figured this would be the appropriate spot considering the need usefulness opportunity. I didn't listen, but "Erik Prince announced he is officially bringing back the private military company Blackwater USA."

Erik Prince Addresses His Role With "We Build The Wall" & The Arrest Of Steve Bannon

ETA: @ThunderHorse saw your post in the other thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

Bringing this back, the people with means will hire private "police" forces to fill the gap left by the government.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 30, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I figured this would be the appropriate spot considering the need usefulness opportunity. I didn't listen, but "Erik Prince announced he is officially bringing back the private military company Blackwater USA."
> 
> Erik Prince Addresses His Role With "We Build The Wall" & The Arrest Of Steve Bannon
> 
> ETA: @ThunderHorse saw your post in the other thread.



What do you think the implications of this are?
Edit: Nevermind, saw Thunderhorse's post.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 30, 2020)

Ya'll really are fired up in this thread.

I'm down for letting every police officer in this country take a 6 month long vacation and let the people go to work and (almost) anything goes. No one will be charged for killing rapists, child molesters, crooks/robbers and rioters/looters. But if you break the law then it's your ass vigilante style.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> “Goodyear is committed to fostering an inclusive and respectful workplace where all of our associates can do their best in a spirit of teamwork. As part of this commitment, we do allow our associates to express their support on racial injustice and other equity issues but ask that they refrain from workplace expressions, verbal or otherwise, in support of political campaigning for any candidate or political party as well as other similar forms of advocacy that fall outside the scope of equity issues.”
> 
> That'pretty shitty rationale on Goodyear's part.  "We don't want any politics in the workplace... unless it's politics we support (or at least politics we're afraid to crack down on in the current political climate)."



Good on Goodyear:

Goodyear Says It Will Allow Employees To Wear Pro-Police Apparel




> Goodyear CEO Rich Kramer issued a statement Thursday saying that his company’s policy would be clarified to allow employees of the tire company to wear apparel that expresses support for police on Goodyear premises, after a leaked slide that appeared to show Blue Lives Matter and MAGA merchandise were not allowed drew the ire of President Donald Trump.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Good on Goodyear:
> 
> Goodyear Says It Will Allow Employees To Wear Pro-Police Apparel



Seems a bit like damage control at this point, after they realized how many gov contracts were potentially at stake.

Even if this isn’t the case, it sure has the appearance of it. And we all know, appearance is all that matters in today’s society.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Good on Goodyear:
> 
> Goodyear Says It Will Allow Employees To Wear Pro-Police Apparel


Trump's ire didn't factor in.
Goodyear stock closed 3% down the day after, and some independent dealerships let it be known that they would stop stocking GY tires.  Fakebook outrage brigade also swung into gear.

Politics, Religion and business don't mix.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

"Fiery, but mostly peaceful"

You seriously can't make this shit up.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300215461309710336


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "Fiery, but mostly peaceful"
> 
> You seriously can't make this shit up.
> 
> ...



I'd hate to see what riots would entail in the authors eyes.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 31, 2020)

^They're making 'smores on those "fires", peaceful protesters gotta eat...


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "Fiery, but mostly peaceful"
> 
> You seriously can't make this shit up.
> 
> ...


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

GFM has shut down sites to raise money for Rittenhouse's defense.  Patheos invoking him as a "domestic terrorist" as Christian sites raise money:

Christian Crowdfunding Site Raising Money For Kenosha Killer Kyle Rittenhouse

Edited to add, some of the comments are face-palm worthy.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 31, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> GFM has shut down sites to raise money for Rittenhouse's defense.  Patheos invoking him as a "domestic terrorist" as Christian sites raise money:
> 
> Christian Crowdfunding Site Raising Money For Kenosha Killer Kyle Rittenhouse
> 
> Edited to add, some of the comments are face-palm worthy.


But Go Fund Me has no issues hosting sites for what seems to be virtually every thug in the country...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 31, 2020)

I'm having a lot of trouble bubbling up any sympathy for this kid...or his parents for that matter.


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 31, 2020)

The only person who garners my sympathy in the midst of this whole burning bucket of bullshit is the woman who put the restraining order out on Kenosha's favorite SJW martyr.  If anyone should have shot him, it would be her.  Instead, she follows the law, finally works up the courage to leave her abuser, calls the police when he violates said p.o., and now he's a GFM millionaire with his name emblazoned upon the uniforms of overpaid jocks.  My heart genuinely hurts for her.  Everyone else can suck start a shotgun, for all I give a damn.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm having a lot of trouble bubbling up any sympathy for this kid...or his parents for that matter.



I am not sure 'sympathy' is what I have.  I DO want to see him have a fair shake, and reading ANYTHING the MSM or the left (see Patheos article) makes him seem like a blood-thirsty tyrant and his victims as innocent bystanders.  If I had the money I would absolutely contribute to his defense fund, though.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 31, 2020)

Personally, I find that he falls under good intentions, bad judgement. LE's hamstrung and/or incapable of actually quelling these things due to either ineptitude, lack of manpower, or political influence. This leads to people seeing the innocent bystanders taking heat for nothing other than existing.


I question his sequence of decisions that put him there that night, but I don't question his actions when it came down to it. He didn't NEED to be there, but nobody needs to be "there" in all honesty. 

People's lives are being destroyed. Insurance may rebuild the business (if they pay out, they're trying to duck out on many riot payments it seems) but it doesn't cover for the gap in income for all the people who worked there, owned it, etc etc etc. So the insurance argument is a moot thing. It helps, but it's not the same at all.

I wouldn't say I have sympathy for him, but I have zero ill will towards him either. I do harbor ill will towards rioters. I'm all about, and pay attention to people that peacefully protest. You start trying to IED and kill people on the daily who are the rank and file of trying to keep things sane? fuck you and the horse you rode in on with a hot minigun muzzle.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 31, 2020)

I guess I'll wait to see what else come of this, but this kid (and I'm assuming his parents since he has unlimited access to an AR at 17 years old) appear to be the type who will show up at a Chipotle kitted up for Afghanistan...because they can.

It appears he went looking for trouble....and found it.

There's a difference between protecting you and yours vs. what he apparently did.

Get off of my side.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I guess I'll wait to see what else come of this, but this kid (and I'm assuming his parents since he has unlimited access to an AR at 17 years old) appear to be the type who will show up at a Chipotle kitted up for Afghanistan...because they can.
> 
> It appears he went looking for trouble....and found it.
> 
> ...



I see a couple points: one is whether he should have been there (no).  But he was, and being there was bad judgment but not illegal.  I would be horrified if my 17 or 18 year-old son went to, say, Alexandria, Virginia (a little further) to participate in something that had a potential to be so volatile.  But then, this kid's parents seemed to have a different standard than I.

The other point is whether he should have access to an AR (or any other gun).  To that point, I certainly have no issue (I went to a high school where every pick-up had a gun rack with rifles and shotties, regardless of whether it was hunting season).

I get your perspective, and I respect it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 31, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I get your perspective, and I respect it.


Same.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 31, 2020)

Not calling anyone out in particular, just making a general statement. All the people on social media that seem to justify his charges with the statement of “he didn’t need to be there” aren’t taking into account that neither did the people he shot. “Well they were exercising there first amendment right to assemble” okay.... so was he?

On a related note, there seems to be screen shots of the bicep guy stating his only regret is that he didn’t “kill that kid”. Seems like a home run for Kyle’s defense team. Also doesn’t seem like a statement anyone should ever mutter is that they regret not killing a kid, no matter who you are.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 31, 2020)

So, something that hasn't been touched on at all so far is that Rittenhouse actually had reason to be in Kenosha, WI.  Like many people, who cross state borders daily, he had a job in Kenosha.  His?  Lifeguard.

Attorneys representing Kyle Rittenhouse say he was wrongfully charged after 'acting in self-defense'



> Pierce argues that when Rittenhouse finished his shift as a lifeguard in Kenosha last Tuesday, he decided he wanted to help clean up damage in Kenosha left amid unrest over the police shooting of Jacob Blake.



So this really wasn't a: "Hey Mom, I'm going to Kenosha today to counter-protest against the looters and arsonists" conversation.  How he got to Kenosha that night was "normal".

________________

It's pretty disgusting how transitive the morality of the #MeToo movement is. (No GoFundMe for the victim) Jacob Blake had a warrant out for his arrest for alleged rape, he was in the woman whom he had allegedly raped's home and was about to steal her car for a second time, this time he was going to take their children.  Whenever he receives this money, his Child Support liabilities will have modifications and he will be sued civilly by his victim now that he has money.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Aug 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, something that hasn't been touched on at all so far is that Rittenhouse actually had reason to be in Kenosha, WI.  Life many people, who cross state borders daily, he had a job in Kenosha.  His?  Lifeguard.
> 
> Attorneys representing Kyle Rittenhouse say he was wrongfully charged after 'acting in self-defense'
> 
> ...



I read the statement. Of course it's from his lawyers, BUT if true, it really changes the entire narrative 180 degrees.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Not calling anyone out in particular, just making a general statement. All the people on social media that seem to justify his charges with the statement of “he didn’t need to be there” aren’t taking into account that neither did the people he shot. “Well they were exercising there first amendment right to assemble” okay.... so was he?
> 
> On a related note, there seems to be screen shots of the bicep guy stating his only regret is that he didn’t “kill that kid”. Seems like a home run for Kyle’s defense team. Also doesn’t seem like a statement anyone should ever mutter is that they regret not killing a kid, no matter who you are.



I see the "he should not have been there" argument different than the argument about his actions.  I dare say any of us with a Y chromosome did something, or was somewhere, or was with someone with whom we absolutely should not.  It's part of our chemistry, and but for the grace of God and all, right?  Many of us are plain lucky to be alive given what we did as teenagers.  Should he have been there?  I don't think it's ever a good idea to interject one's self into a powder keg; but, he did.  I say that too all of the rioters/looters/rabble-rousers and non-peaceful activists and protesters.  

It's complicated, and I see and understand both sides (he should/should not have been there).  I respect both views, and I can easily vacillate between the two.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 31, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Personally, I find that he falls under good intentions, bad judgement. LE's hamstrung and/or incapable of actually quelling these things due to either ineptitude, lack of manpower, or political influence. This leads to people seeing the innocent bystanders taking heat for nothing other than existing.
> 
> 
> I question his sequence of decisions that put him there that night, but I don't question his actions when it came down to it. He didn't NEED to be there, but nobody needs to be "there" in all honesty.
> ...


This more or less is view as well.  

I have no ill will towards him. The kid is just that...a kid.  He's 17.  Idealistic and naive.  From what I can tell, bad judgement but him there but he was there with good intentions. As others stated, he shouldn't have been there but none of them should've...but they were.  So, it is what it is.

There are consequences for all our actions, some greater than others. This kids decisions have changed his life and that many others, not just the two he killed. That's serious stuff.

As for the "protesters" in general, I've had it with their bullshit. Peaceful assembly, voice your grievances, no issues. But there's virtually none of that at this point.  It's all about how to disrupt and destroy, particularly to those who have nothing to do with the issue. They're rioters.  What's worse are the officials that continue to make excuses for them. There's no personal accountability at any level.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 31, 2020)

I was carrying a machine gun at 17, for "kid, 17 etc" arguments. Just sayin.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 31, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> I was carrying a machine gun at 17, for "kid, 17 etc" arguments. Just sayin.


I get that.  You probably also had a little more structure and direction in doing so.


----------



## compforce (Aug 31, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> I was carrying a machine gun at 17, for "kid, 17 etc" arguments. Just sayin.


Mine even had a cool grenade launcher attached to it....at 17 and I was Infantry so the structure provided to me was coming from 22 year olds.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I get that.  You probably also had a little more structure and direction in doing so.



I don't know.  That kid handled his firearm, under extreme pressure, better than many soldiers I served with; even those with decades of experience.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...appear to be the type who will show up at a Chipotle kitted up for Afghanistan...because they ...Get off of my side.



Open carry tacticool dude are the right-wing version of the leftist "these are my pronouns" button wearing white people you seem memes about. 

Like, I fully support their rights and viewpoints, but why do they gotta be such dweebs about it?


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Open carry tacticool dude are the right-wing version of the leftist "these are my pronouns" button wearing white people you seem memes about.
> 
> Like, I fully support their rights and viewpoints, but why do they gotta be such dweebs about it?


They should do what the Fantasy LARPERS do and just rent out some space in a park and play out their war games but with air soft guns and not plastic swords and bean bags spells


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 31, 2020)

Not sure if this was posted but here's the statement from the lawyer for Kyle Rittenhouse.



> Full Statement:  VERNON HILLS, ILLINOIS / August 28, 2020 / Pierce Bainbridge is honored to represent 17-year old Antioch, Illinois resident Kyle Rittenhouse, who has suddenly found himself at the center of a national firestorm and charged with murder after defending himself from a relentless, vicious and potentially deadly mob attack in Kenosha, Wisconsin.  On August 25th, 2020, Kenosha spiraled into chaos following the Jacob Blake shooting. The Kenosha Mayor and Wisconsin Governor failed to provide a basic degree of law and order to protect the citizens and community buildings in Kenosha. The city burned as mobs destroyed buildings and property, and looters stole whatever they wanted. Rioters defaced storefronts, the courthouse, and many other public and private locations across the city.  After Kyle finished his work that day as a community lifeguard in Kenosha, he wanted to help clean up some of the damage, so he and a friend went to the local public high school to remove graffiti by rioters. Later in the day, they received information about a call for help from a local business owner, whose downtown Kenosha auto dealership was largely destroyed by mob violence. The business owner needed help to protect what he had left of his life’s work, including two nearby mechanic’s shops. Kyle and a friend armed themselves with rifles due to the deadly violence gripping Kenosha and many other American cities, and headed to the business premises. The weapons were in Wisconsin and never crossed state lines.  Upon arrival, Kyle and others stood guard at the mechanic’s shop across from the auto dealership to prevent further damage or destruction. Later that night, substantially after the city’s 8:00 p.m. curfew expired without consequence, the police finally started to attempt to disperse a group of rioters. In doing so, they maneuvered a mass of individuals down the street towards the auto shops. Kyle and others on the premises were verbally threatened and taunted multiple times as the rioters passed by, but Kyle never reacted. His intent was not to incite violence, but simply to deter property damage and use his training to provide first aid to injured community members.  After the crowd passed the premises and Kyle believed the threat of further destruction had passed, he became increasingly concerned with the injured protestors and bystanders congregating at a nearby gas station with no immediate access to medical assistance or help from law enforcement. Kyle headed in that direction with a first aid kit. He sought out injured persons, rendered aid, and tried to guide people to others who could assist to the extent he could do so amid the chaos. By the final time Kyle returned to 2 the gas station and confirmed there were no more injured individuals who needed assistance, police had advanced their formation and blocked what would have been his path back to the mechanic’s shop. Kyle then complied with the police instructions not to go back there. Kyle returned to the gas station until he learned of a need to help protect the second mechanic’s shop further down the street where property destruction was imminent with no police were nearby.  As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle. He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.  Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.  Kyle got up and continued down the street in the direction of police with his hands in the air. He attempted to contact multiple police officers, but they were more concerned with the wounded attackers. The police did not take Kyle into custody at that time, but instead they indicated he should keep moving. He fully cooperated, both then and later that night when he turned himself in to the police in his hometown, Antioch, Illinois.  Kyle did nothing wrong. He exercised his God-given, Constitutional, common law and statutory law right to self-defense.  However, in a reactionary rush to appease the divisive, destructive forces currently roiling this country, prosecutors in Kenosha did not engage in any meaningful analysis of the facts, or any in-depth review of available video footage (some of which shows that a critical state’s witness was not even at the area where the shots were fired); this was not a serious investigation. Rather, after learning Kyle may have had conservative political viewpoints, they immediately saw him as a convenient target who they could use as a scapegoat to distract from the Jacob Blake shooting and the government’s abject failure to ensure basic law and order to citizens. Within 24-36 hours, he was charged with multiple homicide counts.  Kyle now has the best legal representation in the country. With help from Nicholas Sandmann attorney L. Lin Wood, Pierce Bainbridge and multiple top-tier criminal defense lawyers in Wisconsin immediately offered representation to Kyle.  Today, his legal team was successful in working with the public defender to obtain a several-week continuance of his extradition hearing to September 25th. This at least partially slows down the rush to judgment by a government and media that is determined to assassinate his character and destroy his life.  Kyle, his family, the team at Pierce Bainbridge and his other lawyers intend to fight these charges every step of the way, take the case to trial and win an acquittal on the grounds of self-defense before a jury of his peers.  The legal fees and other costs of Kyle’s defense will be provided through donations to #FightBack Foundation Inc., a Texas 501(c)(4) foundation created by John Pierce and Lin Wood to protect lawabiding American citizens whose rights are being trampled on by state and local governments that are more concerned with appeasing mobs than protecting those rights.  Pierce Bainbridge founder John Pierce praised Kyle’s strength and resilience. “A 17-year old child should not have to take up arms in America to protect life and property. That is the job of state and local governments. However, those governments have failed, and law-abiding citizens have no choice but to protect their own communities as their forefathers did at Lexington and Concord in 1775. Kyle is not a racist or a white supremacist. He is a brave, patriotic, compassionate law-abiding American who loves his country and his community. He did nothing wrong. He defended himself, which is a fundamental right of all Americans given by God and protected by law. He is now in the crosshairs of institutional forces that are much more powerful than him. But he will stand up to them and fight not only for himself, but for all Americans and their beloved Constitution. We will never leave his side until he is victorious in that fight.”  Further updates will be provided as the investigation and legal proceedings unfold.  #FightBack



Teen's Attorneys Claim Self-Defense in Kenosha Shootings


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 1, 2020)

Some footage of a teenage male that looks like Rittenhouse hitting a female while fighting in Kenosha, WI. The teen male then gets beat up by some people who witnessed it. We'll see if it turns out to be him or not. Looks like Rittenhouse, but not a very clear video. 

Group of teens fighting in a parking lot

Second Video


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Some footage of a teenage male that looks like Rittenhouse hitting a female while fighting in Kenosha, WI. The teen male then gets beat up by some people who witnessed it. We'll see if it turns out to be him or not. Looks like Rittenhouse, but not a very clear video.
> 
> Group of teens fighting in a parking lot
> 
> Second Video


I can't see shit in either video (I never can LOL) but I'm sure some one with frame by frame image capture will review and can confirm one way or another.

The article doesn't make a lot of sense though and comes of as a bit of a hit piece.  Ex. "That wasn't his first time in Kenosha." Well no shit.  He didn't live that far away and more to the point, it's known he had a lifeguard job in town - his lawyers statement says as much.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 1, 2020)

Hit piece for sure, and the part in the article where it says he's wearing the same shorts in the fight as he was in the FB pics with the AR is BS, completely different shorts in the picture THEY LINK TO...


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Hit piece for sure, and the part in the article where it says he's wearing the same shorts in the fight as he was in the FB pics with the AR is BS, completely different shorts in the picture THEY LINK TO...


I think they're saying he has the same crocs in the picture.

I have no idea if it's him based solely on the video but I will say this, it seems like with every story these days, all we need to do is wait for a minute and we.find out just what a steaming turd of a person many of these people really are.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Hit piece for sure, and the part in the article where it says he's wearing the same shorts in the fight as he was in the FB pics with the AR is BS, completely different shorts in the picture THEY LINK TO...



Same crocs.

I remember seeing this posted by one of the guys who filmed it, who states that is Rittenhouse.

This just takes me back to my opinion a few pages ago; him or the guys he shot being scumbags doesn't really change the fact that all I care about is the shooting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Some footage of a teenage male that looks like Rittenhouse hitting a female while fighting in Kenosha, WI. The teen male then gets beat up by some people who witnessed it. We'll see if it turns out to be him or not. Looks like Rittenhouse, but not a very clear video.
> 
> Group of teens fighting in a parking lot
> 
> Second Video



In the same way that all white people look the same?  Shorts are different, shirt's different.  The only thing that's similar is the subject in the video is his pudgyness.



Cookie_ said:


> Same crocs.
> 
> I remember seeing this posted by one of the guys who filmed it, who states that is Rittenhouse.
> 
> This just takes me back to my opinion a few pages ago; him or the guys he shot being scumbags doesn't really change the fact that all I care about is the shooting.



Crocs is a massive shoe brand, so "same" crocs doesn't really create a conclusion. Currently at 40 bucks on the NASDAQ.

ETA-
Also, @Cookie_ these are not crocs: https://arges.feralhosting.com/alister/Engagements/recover.jpeg

https://arges.feralhosting.com/alister/Engagements/trigger.jpg

So I don't understand the comment.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Same crocs.
> 
> I remember seeing this posted by one of the guys who filmed it, who states that is Rittenhouse.
> 
> This just takes me back to my opinion a few pages ago; him or the guys he shot being scumbags doesn't really change the fact that all I care about is the shooting.


I agree.  However, as we've seen in every one of these cases, the people one associates with and the situations one places themselves in play a significant role in their events. 

We create our own circumstances/luck by the people and things we associate with.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Some footage of a teenage male that looks like Rittenhouse hitting a female while fighting in Kenosha, WI. The teen male then gets beat up by some people who witnessed it. We'll see if it turns out to be him or not. Looks like Rittenhouse, but not a very clear video.
> 
> Group of teens fighting in a parking lot
> 
> Second Video


Mouthy females are fair game.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 1, 2020)

I haven't seen any mention of the crocs...

Edit: I read it as shorts the first time for whatever reason. Saw the red, white and blue shorts, don't know how I missed that but I did. Aliens...

Edit #2: A few paragraphs down: "The second video shows Rittenhouse, wearing red-white-and-blue trunks and shoes, being kicked several times." 

Yes it says crocs in the begining, and yes, looks the same as his.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

Back to Portlandia, last night was what, the 100th day of unrest?  Rioters put on a firework show outside of Ted Wheeler's condo:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300675670368870406
Here's where it gets fun. The governor put out a plan telling Washington and Clackamas counties to send deputies to help put down the riots. These are the counties that surround Multinomah...funny that she also states that the Multinomah DA will now prosecute serious offenders.

Oregon Gov. Brown debuts plan to end protest violence, protect free speech in Portland

Well, the Sheriffs of Washington and Clackamas County will not abide with the plan and will not be sending deputies to Portland. Don't see any statement from the City of Gresham or not.

Sheriffs say they won't help governor's plan to stop Portland protest violence


----------



## Ranger Psych (Sep 1, 2020)

Gresham'll probably tell them to pound sand, they've got their own issues.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 1, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Mouthy females are fair game.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 1, 2020)

I'd like to amend a previous position- Portland, despite the fact that I have been in and around it for the last 2 months or so, is a complete and fucking disaster. It's every bad as you see, and I won't let my guys anywhere near that city. Armed. unarmed, as a group, whatever.

Drastic measures have to be taken there. It's now months late. Fuck everyone there for acting like god damn savages.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I'd like to amend a previous position- Portland, despite the fact that I have been in and around it for the last 2 months or so, is a complete and fucking disaster. It's every bad as you see, and I won't let my guys anywhere near that city. Armed. unarmed, as a group, whatever.
> 
> Drastic measures have to be taken there. It's now months late. Fuck everyone there for acting like god damn savages.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> View attachment 35599


I am dead serious. I have no idea what the "fix" is, although I could posit a guess or 3. And they're all something I would never thought I would see in my life. Guess I don't have the best imagination.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I am dead serious. I have no idea what the "fix" is, although I could posit a guess or 3. And they're all something I would never thought I would see in my life. Guess I don't have the best imagination.


Interested to hear more.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Sep 1, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I am dead serious. I have no idea what the "fix" is, although I could posit a guess or 3. And they're all something I would never thought I would see in my life. Guess I don't have the best imagination.



Send it, I want to hear, especially since I'm here.

I mean, it's not like my GF got shot at last night at work or anything.

Want to see a CUCV do 75? that's how


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

I have a seriously hard time believing any of this: The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence

The Nation is pretty far left at this point.  But FBI separating Anarchists from Antifa is comical.  Who wrote this report?  Also, for the last god damned time, someone put the dickheads that leak FOUO reports into a cell and lock away the key.

I've looked through tons of videos and pictures out there on twitter, you're gonna have point me in the direction of a proud boy or a right wing dude.  The people out there creating violence are the Black Bloc.  That's it.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I have a seriously hard time believing any of this: The FBI Finds ‘No Intel Indicating Antifa Involvement’ in Sunday’s Violence
> 
> The Nation is pretty far left at this point.  But FBI separating Anarchists from Antifa is comical.  Who wrote this report?  Also, for the last god damned time, someone put the dickheads that leak FOUO reports into a cell and lock away the key.
> 
> I've looked through tons of videos and pictures out there on twitter, you're gonna have point me in the direction of a proud boy or a right wing dude.  The people out there creating violence are the Black Bloc.  That's it.



Might be a stupid question, but did you see the publication date? It was June 2nd.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Might be a stupid question, but did you see the publication date? It was June 2nd.


This might be a stupid response, but no I did not. It was part of a crazy thread a liberal friend retweeted.  I'm gonna re-sheath my sword for the night!

Here's the thread if anyone wants to see, have to say it takes a lot of work to build out this selective of a thread:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300190740765696000


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This might be a stupid response, but no I did not. It was part of a crazy thread a liberal friend retweeted.  I'm gonna re-sheath my sword for the night!
> 
> Here's the thread if anyone wants to see, have to say it takes a lot of work to build out this selective of a thread:
> 
> ...



I've gotten into the habit of checking and doubling checking publishing dates because of threads like that, so I understand how you might have missed it.

I went through the whole thread, and only three were not from June; the first intercept article and another one I'm not going back to find  are from back in July, and the second intercept article is about the Kenosha situation with Rittenhouse.

I wonder if he just couldn't find anymore recent sources for his "ANTIFA is nonviolent" position.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This might be a stupid response, but no I did not. It was part of a crazy thread a liberal friend retweeted.  I'm gonna re-sheath my sword for the night!
> 
> Here's the thread if anyone wants to see, have to say it takes a lot of work to build out this selective of a thread:
> 
> ...



Seth Abramson: Right Wing extremists responsible for the violence and mayhem following peaceful protests against police brutality and racial injustice even went so far as to shoot and kill one of their own guys.  

I'm being sarcastic of course.


----------



## AWP (Sep 2, 2020)

You crazy kids, looking for facts in today's world...


----------



## medicchick (Sep 2, 2020)

OSP troopers federally deputized amid renewed Portland protest response



> State police tell KOIN 6 News they’re working with the U.S. Attorney’s Office to review arrests made by troopers assigned to Portland for potential prosecution. The troopers assigned to Portland have been cross-deputized by the U.S. Marshals.



Oh local DA doesn't want to prosecute? We be feds now bitches, they will.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 2, 2020)

medicchick said:


> OSP troopers federally deputized amid renewed Portland protest response
> 
> 
> 
> Oh local DA doesn't want to prosecute? We be feds now bitches, they will.



Oh damn.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 2, 2020)

medicchick said:


> OSP troopers federally deputized amid renewed Portland protest response
> 
> 
> 
> Oh local DA doesn't want to prosecute? We be feds now bitches, they will.


I like it...should've done this months ago.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 2, 2020)

medicchick said:


> OSP troopers federally deputized amid renewed Portland protest response
> 
> 
> 
> Oh local DA doesn't want to prosecute? We be feds now bitches, they will.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 2, 2020)

medicchick said:


> OSP troopers federally deputized amid renewed Portland protest response
> 
> 
> 
> Oh local DA doesn't want to prosecute? We be feds now bitches, they will.


Looking at Kate Brown's twitter account, there's no mention of this.  (I would expect a bigly hostile comment aimed at Trump)  But she did extend the Emergency Declaration and banned chokeholds.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 3, 2020)

I am putting this here, but I suppose it could go into any number of threads.  I watched the body cam footage of the DC police officer who shot the armed guy in the time following protests in DC (link below).

Deon Kay shooting: DC police release video of deadly encounter after protests

A couple thoughts:

1)  It's in Anacostia, off Malcolm X Ave.  That's a horrible part of DC.
2)  The whole thing happened in a nanosecond.  Training, training, training.  OODA loop and all that.  That could have ended badly for the cop.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 3, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am putting this here, but I suppose it could go into any number of threads.  I watched the body cam footage of the DC police officer who shot the armed guy in the time following protests in DC (link below).
> 
> Deon Kay shooting: DC police release video of deadly encounter after protests
> 
> ...


Nanosecond is right.

Distances, etc. can be difficult to judge in video but given where the gun was found, that was one heck of a 'toss'.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 3, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am putting this here, but I suppose it could go into any number of threads.  I watched the body cam footage of the DC police officer who shot the armed guy in the time following protests in DC (link below).
> 
> Deon Kay shooting: DC police release video of deadly encounter after protests
> 
> ...


Damn he's good.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 3, 2020)

Wonder if he was trying to throw the gun vs drawing down?


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 3, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Wonder if he was trying to throw the gun vs drawing down?


It's a hard tell at this point, but compared to the other recent cases this is definitely the best example so far of both an armed and potentially serious threat to an officer and an appropriate and measured response (one solid shot) to that threat level.


----------



## Polar Bear (Sep 3, 2020)

I like Green Beans and Ham, George Foreman makes a hell of a grill. That is all, random thoughts to keep you all grounded.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

So Vice and Michael Reinoehl's Lawyers (did he have any?) thought it was totes cool to have him go on Vice and give his "story".  But he straight up confessed to a killing. 






A few days after recording, he was located in Washington and killed in an officer involved shooting as the Federal Task Force attempted to apprehend him under a warrant. 

Officers fatally shoot suspect in Portland protest killing

Twitter thread from US Marshal's Service on the event:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301889565037334535


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So Vice and Michael Reinoehl's Lawyers (did he have any?) thought it was totes cool to have him go on Vice and give his "story".  But he straight up confessed to a killing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Suicide by cop.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

What I find hilarious and sad is that Rittenhouse is portrayed on twitter, horrible place to be but I have to use it for work, as a White Supremacist. (There are many defenders, but the vast majority of accounts you run into are liberal in my experience)

But this guy, who literally walked up to a Trump Supporter and popped him gets portrayed as a hero by the same people.  

And for me there is a drastic difference, Rittenhouse did cross state lines, but he just went home only a 25 minute drive, and then turned himself in the next day. This guy? He literally was on the run and then attempted to get in a shootout.


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 4, 2020)

When people say he crossed state lines it makes it sound as though he hopped in a boat to conduct an amphibious assault into Venezuela. Can you imagine how many people would cross state lines into DC everyday if it became a state?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> When people say he crossed state lines it makes it sound as though he hopped in a boat to conduct an amphibious assault into Venezuela. Can you imagine how many people would cross state lines into DC everyday if it became a state?




For me the crossing state lines thing is a complete misnomer for Rittenhouse because he literally crossed state lines daily working as a lifeguard (per his attorney).  This guy?  Well they found him in Olympia, which on a good day is a two hour drive.  Now two hours is also meaningless because we all know those guys who live in another state and drive into Ft Benning, Bliss, Campbell, etc.


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For me the crossing state lines thing is a complete misnomer for Rittenhouse because he literally crossed state lines daily working as a lifeguard (per his attorney).  This guy?  Well they found him in Olympia, which on a good day is a two hour drive.  Now two hours is also meaningless because we all know those guys who live in another state and drive into Ft Benning, Bliss, Campbell, etc.



You look at it from the lens that he has daily placement and access there. I look at it like he's American and this is America and it's his god damn right. I'm not saying the laws shouldn't apply to him, but they're coming at it like he's an invader. Let's go after illegal immigrants for crossing state lines, bet the narrative changes.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 4, 2020)

Is there some kind of criminal enhancement for "crossing state lines" when you murder someone?  To me it doesn't matter if someone lived next door or across the country, murder is still murder.


----------



## medicchick (Sep 4, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Is there some kind of criminal enhancement for "crossing state lines" when you murder someone?  To me it doesn't matter if someone lived next door or across the country, murder is still murder.


State to state extradition and I think it can become federal.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 4, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Is there some kind of criminal enhancement for "crossing state lines" when you murder someone?  To me it doesn't matter if someone lived next door or across the country, murder is still murder.



No real enhancement, but it can become federal...

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao/legacy/2012/01/26/usab6001.pdf


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Is there some kind of criminal enhancement for "crossing state lines" when you murder someone?  To me it doesn't matter if someone lived next door or across the country, murder is still murder.


It does get referenced as a matter of intent.  Especially when you're actually fleeing the scene and get caught in another state in the act of being "on the run."


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It does get referenced as a matter of intent.  Especially when you're actually fleeing the scene and get caught in another state in the act of being "on the run."


Kind of like when the Duke boys would cross the county line to escape the persecution of Rosco P Coltrane and Boss Hog?


----------



## AWP (Sep 4, 2020)

Has anyone (not here) addressed why a 17 YO had an AR given to him by someone in WI? Cross a state border to do this...eh, okay I guess if that's legal. Armed as a 17 YO? Is that legal ini WI? Giving a weapon to a minor? Is that legal in WI? It wasn't like he was hunting under the supervision of an adult, he was on guard duty. 

Don't get me wrong, as I've stated before once that clown tried to take the weapon away it was a clean shoot. It just shouldn't have happened, not to a 17 YO.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> Has anyone (not here) addressed why a 17 YO had an AR given to him by someone in WI? Cross a state border to do this...eh, okay I guess if that's legal. Armed as a 17 YO? Is that legal ini WI? Giving a weapon to a minor? Is that legal in WI? It wasn't like he was hunting under the supervision of an adult, he was on guard duty.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, as I've stated before once that clown tried to take the weapon away it was a clean shoot. It just shouldn't have happened, not to a 17 YO.


His "friend" was also under age.  The story about his "online older friend" was false.  So I'm not really questioning that as much as wondering why his "friend" and his "friend's parents" haven't copped any gun charges at the moment.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> His "friend" was also under age.  The story about his "online older friend" was false.  So I'm not really questioning that as much as wondering why his "friend" and his "friend's parents" haven't copped any gun charges at the moment.


Has the felon with a pistol been charged yet?


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 4, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Has the felon with a pistol been charged yet?



Suspect in Fatal Portland Shooting Is Killed by Officers During Arrest

EDIT: Thanks @ThunderHorse


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 4, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Suspect in Fatal Portland Shooting Is Killed by Officers During Arrest


Not him, the last guy Rittenhouse shot who's bicep got shredded.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 5, 2020)

"Arson isn't violence, because people have insurance."

Well,

|
*Riot-Ravaged Minneapolis Businesses Can't Rebuild Because the Insurance Won't Cover It*
*link*



> Ever since a multiracial group of Minneapolis cops kneeled on George Floyd’s neck as he died three months ago, there have been riots in American cities every single night. At first our moral, ethical, and intellectual betters in the media just gaslighted us about it. They looked right into their cameras and told us it wasn’t happening. It’s not _actual_ violence, y’know, the _bad_ kind of violence. It’s “mostly peaceful protest.”
> 
> “A-ha,” exclaims the liberal in good standing. “Allow me to retort. Maybe you rednecks have never heard of a little thing called… _insurance???_ It’s just property. It’s just stuff. It can be replaced. George Floyd’s life can’t!”


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 6, 2020)

I've heard that line a few times in the last few weeks. Totally makes burning a building down legit...

U.S. Marshall is looking like the coolest job out there these days. Not currently hiring on usajobs though.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 6, 2020)

OMG the white supremacist militia is out...actually no. But...The NFAC a left wing militia was in force marching on the Kentucky Derby.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302386061520191488
And Portland


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302468157752311810
So what do we classify molotov cocktails on the 101st day of violence as?


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> OMG the white supremacist militia is out...actually no. But...The NFAC a left wing militia was in force marching on the Kentucky Derby.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302386061520191488
> ...



“Mosty peaceful“ Molotovs.


----------



## AWP (Sep 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> OMG the white supremacist militia is out...actually no. But...The NFAC a left wing militia was in force marching on the Kentucky Derby.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302386061520191488



Funny, they look like corrections officers...


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> OMG the white supremacist militia is out...actually no. But...The NFAC a left wing militia was in force marching on the Kentucky Derby.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302386061520191488
> ...



"Went to a party last night, the drinks were literally fire." - Mostly peaceful protesters.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 6, 2020)

Fitting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302469332983668737


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> OMG the white supremacist militia is out...actually no. But...The NFAC a left wing/black supremacist militia was in force marching on the Kentucky Derby.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302386061520191488



Update to this post, so I didn't see these on twitter yesterday as I was focused mostly on the Derby itself and the fact that the NFAC marched on Churchill Downs. Well, it appears a "Right Wing", love the media here. The Right Wing Militia also protested in Louisville.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302279918936621056
A lot more reporters following these guys around than the NFAC.  Thankfully they demonstrated in completely different parts of the city.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 8, 2020)

Poignant remarks from Chief Best on her last day as Chief of Seattle PD.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am not joking, they are referring to sending psychologists and medical personnel to be first on scene to attempt non-violent outcomes.



Fucking toads. In my near 20 years as a 911 paramedic, I can't count how many drugged out PCP players that were fighting busses, naked in 32 degree weather, sweating, screaming nonsense that needed 6 cops, me and my partner to fight him, hold him down to give Ketamine. 

These fuck heads that advocate sending non cops will get these non cops hurt.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 8, 2020)

What an awesome way to ”protest” and rally people to your point of view!  My favorite technique is yelling in peoples ears with a megaphone and the daring elderly people
to stop you from drinking the beer off of your table!!!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302807915519258624


----------



## AWP (Sep 8, 2020)

These are no longer protests, these are events catering to people being assholes. They cowardly hide behind BLM and anything else they can clinig to because how dare you say anything negative about BLM, social justice, whatever narrative exists now. This won't end anytime soon.

Imagine election night if Trump wins in Nov. You'll be able to see the burning cities from space.

ETA: How long do these riots peaceful protests continue before they drive centrists towards Trump or maybe even keep potential Biden voters from going to the polls?


----------



## medicchick (Sep 8, 2020)

Can we have winter yet, they all seem scared of the cold and snow.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> These are no longer protests, these are events catering to people being assholes. They cowardly hide behind BLM and anything else they can clinig to because how dare you say anything negative about BLM, social justice, whatever narrative exists now. This won't end anytime soon.
> 
> Imagine election night if Trump wins in Nov. You'll be able to see the burning cities from space.
> 
> ETA: How long do these riots peaceful protests continue before they drive centrists towards Trump or maybe even keep potential Biden voters from going to the polls?



"Social justice" has become its own religion.  It is fed by the grievance industry, the media, and higher education.  It's not going away no matter who wins in November.  All that's left to decide is what it's going to look like after.  What I'm seeing right now from the left is not my "after."


----------



## compforce (Sep 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> ETA: How long do these riots peaceful protests continue before they drive centrists towards Trump or maybe even keep potential Biden voters from going to the polls?



It's already starting.   Many anecdotal statements about "I've always been a Democrat but..." and "I was a never Trumper, but now..." running around on Social Media.  I don't think it has become an exodus yet, but if the "protests" continue, it probably will.

ETA:  I almost fell out of my chair when I read @amlove21 endorsing the Nobel Prize for Trump...


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 8, 2020)

compforce said:


> It's already starting.   Many anecdotal statements about "I've always been a Democrat but..." and "I was a never Trumper, but now..." running around on Social Media.  I don't think it has become an exodus yet, but if the "protests" continue, it probably will.
> 
> ETA:  I almost fell out of my chair when I read @amlove21 endorsing the Nobel Prize for Trump...


Listen man. I am as surprised as you. But facts is facts.


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> These are no longer protests, these are events catering to people being assholes. They cowardly hide behind BLM and anything else they can clinig to because how dare you say anything negative about BLM, social justice, whatever narrative exists now. This won't end anytime soon.
> 
> Imagine election night if Trump wins in Nov. You'll be able to see the burning cities from space.
> 
> ETA: How long do these riots peaceful protests continue before they drive centrists towards Trump or maybe even keep potential Biden voters from going to the polls?



It's certainly a wake up call for November. I better start doing cardio. I know if one of those groups comes by while I'm eating, I can take like two, maybe three. But If I've learned anything jujitsu, I'm throwing up after two and a half minutes cause I'm out of shape. That will be my downfall, not the fourth person.


Strike hard, strike fast!


----------



## 757 (Sep 8, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303278594530181121
2020 with yet another curve ball I didn't see coming


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 8, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Listen man. I am as surprised as you. But facts is facts.



He definitely deserves it more than Obama's freebie Nobel.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 8, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Can we have winter yet, they all seem scared of the cold and snow.


That moment when "Winter is Coming" has become an auspicious tagline.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 8, 2020)

We had a BLM protest up in Prescott.  Prescott is known for being a conservative town and Yavapai County is pretty conservative.  I wouldn't say it's a racist place...there's some other towns in AZ I would point you to.  But literally what happened was assholes from Phoenix drove up there to do a march and the people who didn't want the BLM violence that occurred in downtown Phoenix in their town and they yelled expletives.  In the footage I saw there were no slurs, no Confederate Battle flags.  And it all ended peacefully. 

But this whole going out and picking a fight thing that we see today is very strange. You can draw parallels to the Civil Rights movement but it is clearly not the same at all, if anything there's way more violence today across the entire country by comparison.

So a lot of Liberal Leaning papers are touting this report from the ACLED...I have no idea who they are. But according to them only 7% of the protests have been violent. I can see a huge number being non-violent. But as I've watched these things nationally and locally I have a HARD time believing that statistic. And if it's true, think about the inordinate amount of damage done by the 7%. Entire cities are going to be plunged into economic depressions.

_________________

I also enjoyed the stunt of Biden and Kamala going to Kenosha to talk to Jacob Blake.  The #MeToo  movement is dead.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Sep 9, 2020)

Moving goalposts such as "the protest ended when the riot began" are probably on the menu...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 10, 2020)

I forget, but there was another campus somewhere before this that did a POC only cafe somewhere a few years ago.  

But as we continue along this weird meandering social justice warrior apocalypse thing we are now segregating ourselves based on color.  What a wild time to be alive.

UM-Dearborn criticized for creating segregated online student 'cafes'


----------



## Steve1839 (Sep 10, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Can we have winter yet, they all seem scared of the cold and snow.


I came home to winter yesterday, thank you very much...when I left Colorado on Friday, temps were running near 100°F and the AC was on...when I got back, there was snow on the porch and it was 54°F in the house...I can wait on winter...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 10, 2020)

The George Floyd Legacy Scholarship?  Goodnight America, it was a good run.  

Minnesota Vikings award first 'George Floyd Legacy Scholarship'


----------



## AWP (Sep 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The George Floyd Legacy Scholarship?  Goodnight America, it was a good run.
> 
> Minnesota Vikings award first 'George Floyd Legacy Scholarship'



Watch the Vikes win the Super Bowl after I stopped caring about professional sports.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> Watch the Vikes win the Super Bowl after I stopped caring about professional sports.


The Vikings wining the Super Bowl would be the perfect cherry on top of the apocalypse. 7th seal and all that.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 11, 2020)

Neat little video that explains the operational doctrine behind these Marxist revolutionaries. For those wanting information behind the large scale arson we're seeing skip to the 2:00 min mark.










__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3812152278811610&id=100000506266783


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Neat little video that explains the operational doctrine behind these Marxist revolutionaries. For those wanting information behind the large scale arson we're seeing skip to the 2:00 min mark.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So how do we stop them if most people don't even believe they are here?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 11, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So how do we stop them if most people don't even believe they are here?


Education. Keep spreading the word that these people are active and what their goals/methodologies are. These radicals are people, they only win if we let them.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Education. Keep spreading the word that these people are active and what their goals/methodologies are. These radicals are people, they only win if we let them.


Can you send a link for the second video


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 11, 2020)

Pretrial hearings today for the four officers...and big news...

Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman and 3 county attorneys were just disqualified from participating in the George Floyd trial as part of the prosecution. This was done in response to a motion from defense attorneys and is the result of a meeting with the ME, etc. He may now be called as a witness in the case.

We'll see how this all plays out but I view this as a huge blow to the prosecution since Freeman is probably the most skilled on that team.

Attorneys are also rguing for separate trials and potentially change of venue.

I'll get a link when I can.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 11, 2020)

Additional motion presented for anonymous sequester the jury.  Very contentious issue.  They will be sequestered through deliberations but not the entire trial.  Defense argues this will put them in danger as attorneys on both sides have already received thousands of threats.  No decision yet on keeping them anonymous.

A lot of important motions being brought up.  Defense will NOT be allowed to bring up prior incidents with Floyd; judge didn't see their relevance.

Perhaps what is most interesting is the individual defense teams don't appear to be aligned.  They're kind of pointing fingers at each other, if you will.


----------



## AWP (Sep 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Additional motion presented for anonymous sequester the jury.  Very contentious issue.  They will be sequestered through deliberations but not the entire trial.  Defense argues this will put them in danger as attorneys on both sides have already received thousands of threats.  No decision yet on keeping them anonymous.
> 
> A lot of important motions being brought up.  Defense will NOT be allowed to bring up prior incidents with Floyd; judge didn't see their relevance.
> 
> Perhaps what is most interesting is the individual defense teams don't appear to be aligned.  They're kind of pointing fingers at each other, if you will.



Interesting takes. please stay on top of this.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Additional motion presented for anonymous sequester the jury.  Very contentious issue.  They will be sequestered through deliberations but not the entire trial.  Defense argues this will put them in danger as attorneys on both sides have already received thousands of threats.  No decision yet on keeping them anonymous.
> 
> A lot of important motions being brought up.  Defense will NOT be allowed to bring up prior incidents with Floyd; judge didn't see their relevance.
> 
> *Perhaps what is most interesting is the individual defense teams don't appear to be aligned.  They're kind of pointing fingers at each other, if you will.*


The two rookies are being screwed, and those charges need to go away.  Plus, the persecution would get two additional witnesses.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Pretrial hearings today for the four officers...and big news...
> 
> Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman and 3 county attorneys were just disqualified from participating in the George Floyd trial as part of the prosecution. This was done in response to a motion from defense attorneys and is the result of a meeting with the ME, etc. He may now be called as a witness in the case.
> 
> ...


Follow on to previous (from several sources)...

*1.  Disqualifying Hennepin County Attorneys*
Judge Cahill asked prosecutor Matthew Frank (presenting arguments today) if he "plans on having principal prosecutors from Hennepin County Attorney's Office at the table with them at trial."

"I haven't decided yet," Frank said

"Well i have. They're disqualified."

Judge Cahill removed Hennepin County attorney Freeman and 3 others from the case; they cannot participate as lawyers.  It's possible other Hennepin Co. attorneys other than these 4 could assist.

*2.  Floyd's Criminal History*
When the defense proposed presenting evidence related to Floyd's prior criminal history in TX and a prior traffic stop. Judge Cahill asked how it was relevant since the officers didn't know about the prior cases when they encountered Floyd.

One of the defense attorneys argued that it is relevant because Floyd ingested drugs in a prior 2019 traffic stop (I hadn't heard this before). They argued he did the same when Lane and Kueng approached and that it's relevant because they will argue drug overdose as cause of death.

Judge Cahill ruled out using both for now but left the door open for admitting the history of the 2019 traffic stop during trial.  To me, this seems very relevant, especially if the defense is presenting overdose as a cause of death.

*3.  Autopsy*
There were actually 3 autopsies/reviews; I was only aware of two; there was the official Hennepin Co ME, the private autopsy by Floyd's family, and an Armed Forces ME review, which I was not aware of but agreed with the official ME 

Defense wants the results from the private report.  Prosecutors stated they do have the full report. Judge says they cannot call as expert witness unless they share. 

In re: to Armed Forces review, prosecutors argued he can't force them to turn over the report. Same thing as previous, then expert will not be allowed to testify.

I found this exchange interesting because, first, I didn't know there was another review, apparently ordered by the state. Second, the prosecution seems very opposed to sharing these additional results.

*4. Elevated Charges*
Prosecution is arguing for an upward departure, ie. stiffer sentencing.  They argued Floyd was vulnerable stating the following: He was handcuffed, treated with particular cruelty, the officers abused their position of authority, the crime was committed by a group of 3 or more, and it was in the presence of multiple children

Judge Cahill doesn't the vulnerability argument fits; It's meant for people who have disabilities, etc.  He said the prosecution is just conflating different factors to get an aggravated sentence.

Judge Cahill will have decisions by Oct 15.

Judge considers decisions on combined trial, venue, dismissal in George Floyd case


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 11, 2020)

🎼This is the way my city burns
city burns
city burns. 🎹
this is the way my city burns 
all through the night. 🎼


----------



## medicchick (Sep 11, 2020)

All it took to stop the rioters protesters was a massive fire. Can't wait until they are out to see them resume. /s


----------



## Muppet (Sep 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> 🎼This is the way my city burns
> city burns
> city burns. 🎹
> this is the way my city burns
> all through the night. 🎼



Every fucking inner city cesspool. This was never about racial injustice but rather, scallywags acting the fool, opportunitists.

As I continue to say, if black lives mattered, Philly, Chicago and other places that have a10 fold increase in crime, including kids catching rounds to the head on the corner, there would be outrage. 

Crickets. They had their chance, they failed. What's worse are the SJWs from the burbs doing dirt under the guise of racial injustice. 

It's all fucking bullshit.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 12, 2020)

Well welll very interesting 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304577271429099520


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 12, 2020)

If you're insinuating it was anything other than a common dickhead arsonist that likes to have a fiddle while the bush burns, you should probably provide some evidence.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 12, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> If you're insinuating it was anything other than a common dickhead arsonist that likes to have a fiddle while the bush burns, you should probably provide some evidence.


I’m just saying it’s something to watch. Could be nothing or could be something


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 12, 2020)

Fires are beings started by antifa jackasses. Listen to the woman's testimony and the description of the perps car.
Witness Account of Arsonists in Oregon


Spoiler: Perps Instagram Links



Login • Instagram

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram



The perps instagram.








Spoiler: Images





View attachment 35754


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 12, 2020)

If I didn't think the forests were gonna be better in the long run with a nice burn; I'd be incredibly sad.


----------



## Raptor (Sep 12, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Well welll very interesting
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304577271429099520


For whatever its worth, the same account retweeted a statement from FBI Portland

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304856664177176576


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 13, 2020)

Not sure this is the right place for this, but given the recent trends against police, I figured it could stay until determined otherwise. Attempted execution of two LASD Deputies this evening in Compton. 

Two Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies shot in Compton ambush


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 13, 2020)

I mean....I like Darn Tough socks, I wear their socks, and it seems every company feels obligated to jump on the SJW train these days, but sheesh. After the 3rd or 4th paragraph they went full retard on the bit....

Inclusion


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 13, 2020)

companies and the entertainment industry needs to stay out of social media politics.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Not sure this is the right place for this, but given the recent trends against police, I figured it could stay until determined otherwise. Attempted execution of two LASD Deputies this evening in Compton.
> 
> Two Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies shot in Compton ambush



The hospital where the officers are being treated became an anti-cop/BLM protest. Was declared an unlawful assembly. A guy and then a female blogger were arrested. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305039075884187648


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 13, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> companies and the entertainment industry needs to stay out of social media politics.....


They're all designed to lowkey manipulate us, good business. It's a matter of chicken or egg for me


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 13, 2020)

Raptor said:


> For whatever its worth, the same account retweeted a statement from FBI Portland
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304856664177176576


This guy on the ground mentions a "If they start lighting more fires..".

Tbh though, it's unclear who's saying that. I think it's the sheriff's partner. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304634752922656768


Edit: This is Washington, not Portland and if you read further, the guy has been put on leave?


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 13, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> This guy on the ground mentions a "If they start lighting more fires..".
> 
> Tbh though, it's unclear who's saying that. I think it's the sheriff's partner.
> 
> ...


There is actually a lot of it going on in Pierce County, where I live. Multiple people caught setting fires about 10 minutes from my house.

‘We got another one’: Second man arrested for intentionally starting brush fire in Pierce County


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 13, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> There is actually a lot of it going on in Pierce County, where I live. Multiple people caught setting fires about 10 minutes from my house.
> 
> ‘We got another one’: Second man arrested for intentionally starting brush fire in Pierce County


Do you all think this is coordinated activity? How should this be addressed? Is it any different than several years ago when we had ISiS/Al Qaeda inspired attacks? Serious question, is there a line that differentiates the two actions?  

How widespread is the problem? I hear nothing about this from my local media.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 13, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> There is actually a lot of it going on in Pierce County, where I live. Multiple people caught setting fires about 10 minutes from my house.
> 
> ‘We got another one’: Second man arrested for intentionally starting brush fire in Pierce County



Hope you're staying safe


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 13, 2020)

Setting forrest fires, blocking the ED entrance. WTF...


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Do you all think this is coordinated activity? How should this be addressed? Is it any different than several years ago when we had ISiS/Al Qaeda inspired attacks? Serious question, is there a line that differentiates the two actions?
> 
> How widespread is the problem? I hear nothing about this from my local media.


I am not willing to say it’s coordinated until there’s some proof. Definitely needs exploring. Initial reports said ‘ANTIFA members arrested’, but that was found to be false. Or, their field craft/tradecraft is getting better.

No, in my opinion there’s no difference between those organizations. ANTIFA is a terrorist organization.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 13, 2020)

Citizens are acting. What's the consensus on citizens performing as such?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305252748330299392


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 13, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Citizens are acting. What's the consensus on citizens performing as such?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305252748330299392


Dunno about anyone else, but I'm all for it. Seattle and Portland created this problem and let it loose on the countryside. Ultimately it's going to come down on individual people and common citizens to stop the useful idiots from burning down homes, torching the state, and killing their loved ones.

If anything, it's refreshing to see common people standing their ground against these halfwits and not virtue signaling or kowtowing to them.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 13, 2020)

Cops exist to protect criminals, eliminate the cops and vigilantism will fill the void.  This guy is lucky they just didn't shoot him and leave him in the street as a message.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 13, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Citizens are acting. What's the consensus on citizens performing as such?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305252748330299392



Looks like that wasn’t his first stop. Dude laid down, spread his arms and crossed his legs. Granted, she had a gun, but that’s a learned behavior to cross the legs.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 13, 2020)

Bystander footage of the shooting of those LASD Deputies:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305226390854279168
ETA: Huh?  I saw the Daily Fail Article...but then it linked to CNN.  

Black families buy 97 acres of land in Georgia to build a town

19 families buy nearly 97 acres of land in Georgia to create a city safe for Black people


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Bystander footage of the shooting of those LASD Deputies:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305226390854279168
> ...


I've seen the prosegragation side for black folks. If I follow the logic of the civil rights era, it seems regressive on one hand, but the other, if folks don't believe their culture is doing well with integration, I'm all for people developing areas in which they DO feel represented and interested in holding up as long as we're all cooperating on the end side. 

I'm saying this as someone that is fortunate enough to work with other veterans and see benefits from still getting to be a part of a culture I feel aligned to.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 14, 2020)

It's not an exclusively black township they're intending to set up from what I've read.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 14, 2020)

Riot in Lancaster PA.  But Bodycam footage shows a good shoot to me.  Dude running at you with a knife? Done.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Bystander footage of the shooting of those LASD Deputies:
> 
> original video clipped


After this deputy got shot _in her fucking face, _she stayed in the fight, radioed for help, and put a tourniquet on her partner, saving both their lives.

This picture should infuriate you. And it should motivate you to train hard today, and stay vigilant.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 14, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> After this deputy got shot _in her fucking face, _she stayed in the fight, radioed for help, and put a tourniquet on her partner, saving both their lives.
> 
> This picture should infuriate you. And it should motivate you to train hard today, and stay vigilant.
> 
> View attachment 35761


Thank God the shooter didn't bother to verify their status or engage with more rounds, because this would be a very different story.

Luckily it seems both should pull through.

LA Sheriff: Both deputies are likely to survive; $100,000 reward offered to help find, convict man who shot them


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Thank God the shooter didn't bother to verify their status or engage with more rounds, because this would be a very different story.
> 
> Luckily it seems both should pull through.
> 
> LA Sheriff: Both deputies are likely to survive; $100,000 reward offered to help find, convict man who shot them


In a solid move, the LA County Sheriff's Office called on LeBron James to match their reward offer in finding the shooter. 

L.A. sheriff challenges LeBron James to match reward money for gunman who ambushed 2 deputies

To me, it's a brilliant move because it puts James in a position to take a stand. I believe it will expose him for the fraud and coward I believe him to be.  I bet he ignores or otherwise doesn't respond to the request.  Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In a solid move, the LA County Sheriff's Office called on LeBron James to match their reward offer in finding the shooter.
> 
> L.A. sheriff challenges LeBron James to match reward money for gunman who ambushed 2 deputies
> 
> To me, it's a brilliant move because it puts James in a position to take a stand. I believe it will expose him for the fraud and coward I believe him to be.  I bet he ignores or otherwise doesn't respond to the request.  Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.



That is absolutely brilliant!  Force those people to make a choice, and put them on the record.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 15, 2020)

@Blizzard  and @Devildoc

Y'all would still have that same opinion if it was the Police Cheif in Chicago asking for donations from the Republican talking heads/celebrities who constantly mention the violence there, right? It's not that this move aligns with your political leanings?

I mean, what's good for the goose should he good for the gander.

ETA: I don't think the chief asking for support/conversations is a bad thing, but it's evidently a political swipe at Lebron when in the same speech he blames the violence and police distrust on athletes/actors/whatever, as if people literally don't have repeated citizen videos of cops doing questionable things. Case in point

Reporter Arrest Account, Backed by Video, Goes Against LA County Sheriff's Department Version


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @Blizzard  and @Devildoc
> 
> Y'all would still have that same opinion if it was the Police Cheif in Chicago asking for donations from the Republican talking heads/celebrities who constantly mention the violence there, right? It's not that this move aligns with your political leanings?
> 
> ...



I have no problem with that.  If you are going to go in, go all in.

ETA: my issue with James does go deeper in that he wants to call out oppression but is clearly comfortable making money off of oppression (vis-a-vis Nike and China).  But in this instance, yes, if a CLEO or mayor wants to call out someone who is being vocal I am OK with that.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @Blizzard  and @Devildoc
> 
> Y'all would still have that same opinion if it was the Police Chief in Chicago asking for donations from the Republican talking heads/celebrities who constantly mention the violence there, right? It's not that this move aligns with your political leanings?
> 
> I mean, what's good for the goose should he good for the gander.


Lebron advocated for the useful idiots causing this unrest, casually shills for the Chicoms, and has a 23 million dollar LA home. This ain't exactly a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Dude made his own bed.

Plus, most Republicans fled or are fleeing areas like Chicago because of their overbearing and corrupt leftist govt's. If anything, Chicago serves as an example of what not to do. Why should conservatives shovel money at a political system that disenfranchises them and strips citizens of their rights?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @Blizzard  and @Devildoc
> 
> Y'all would still have that same opinion if it was the Police Cheif in Chicago asking for donations from the Republican talking heads/celebrities who constantly mention the violence there, right? It's not that this move aligns with your political leanings?
> 
> ...




This is significantly more local politics and not National politics. Since moving to Los Angeles, LeBron has not been an upstanding member of the community. He has been ardently anti-law enforcement and he faked the tagging of his own house. LeBron James Alleges Racist Graffiti, Still Zero Evidence  In Addition he told Daryl Morey to stick to basketball because he had an opinion on Hong Kong, because China is a huge market for the NBA.  Even though the Chinese are putting millions of people in Concentration Camps.

So I'm completely good with the Sheriff, an elected official, therefore a politician calling out LeBron and also seeking support from him.  Because if LeBron actually did care...it would be a good statement.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I have no problem with that.  If you are going to go in, go all in.
> 
> ETA: my issue with James does go deeper in that he wants to call out oppression but is clearly comfortable making money off of oppression (vis-a-vis Nike and China).  But in this instance, yes, if a CLEO or mayor wants to call out someone who is being vocal I am OK with that.


This exactly. 👍

I'll go one further in re: James. I have no issues saying that I despise him.  He's a clown.  I don't understand the fascination and idolizing of him....but, whatever, that's a separate issue.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 15, 2020)

Reading through the newer reports and evidence, this clearly shows the lack of spine on the Louisville city council.  
City of Louisville reaches settlement with Breonna Taylor's family


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Lebron advocated for the useful idiots causing this unrest, casually shills for the Chicoms, and has a 23 million dollar LA home. This ain't exactly a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Dude made his own bed.
> 
> Plus, most Republicans fled or are fleeing areas like Chicago because of their overbearing and corrupt leftist govt's. If anything, Chicago serves as an example of what not to do. Why should conservatives shovel money at a political system that disenfranchises them and strips citizens of their rights?



I think you might have missed the point I was getting at.

If public personalities keep making statements in regards to how much they care about these issues (Lebron or others on police brutality and BLM/Inner-city violence example I made, because that's a common conservative whataboutism), is it right for public officials ask them to put their money where their mouths are? Is it something you'd be more or less likely to support based on the politics of those involved?

As an aside, I have the same issues with Lebron that most other members of this board do in regards to China/other things, so understand this isn't a defense of him, just a discussion of this sort of call out.

@ThunderHorse  I wasn't tracking that tagging story, so thanks for that. It is a local political situation, but I think the publicity of the parties involved is going to make it become a n as national occurence.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @Blizzard  and @Devildoc
> 
> Y'all would still have that same opinion if it was the Police Cheif in Chicago asking for donations from the Republican talking heads/celebrities who constantly mention the violence there, right? It's not that this move aligns with your political leanings?
> 
> ...


CPD Chief asking for reward money from a Republican is fine by me.
I am willing to bet  Hannity, et al, would donate.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 15, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> CPD Chief asking for reward money from a Republican is fine by me.
> I am willing to bet  Hannity, et al, would donate.


How much would you be willing to bet? 😎


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 15, 2020)

JFC.  We just had a drive by at the Federal Courthouse in Phoenix, one officer down, supposedly in stable condition.

Suspect sought after shooting outside of Phoenix courthouse

Update: Suspect in custody

Person suspected of shooting federal officer outside courthouse in custody


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> How much would you be willing to bet? 😎



I'd put $50 on that, for sure.

And I'm saying as a reward for information on the whereabouts/info leading to the arrest of police attacker in a major city. If called out by a Left Wingnut mayor, I bet some major conservative like Hanity or equally popular rich conservative would back that.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 15, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I think you might have missed the point I was getting at.
> 
> If public personalities keep making statements in regards to how much they care about these issues (Lebron or others on police brutality and BLM/Inner-city violence example I made, because that's a common conservative whataboutism), is it right for public officials ask them to put their money where their mouths are? Is it something you'd be more or less likely to support based on the politics of those involved?
> 
> ...


I think that depends on how outspoken the person is and their level of involvement in that community. That said, I'm not a fan of public officials using their position to get money from people. However... Lebron and many other celebrities helped create this Marxist monster, so I have no sympathy for them.

If anything, I think the useful idiots that pushed the lie's of the BLM should be charged with sedition. Same with all the useful idiots, bureaucrats, and celebrities that pushed the peaceful protest narrative. The republic is facing a growing Marxist insurrection, thanks in part to those retards and their sphere of influence.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I think that depends on how outspoken the person is and their level of involvement in that community. That said, I'm not a fan of public officials using their position to get money from people. However... Lebron and many other celebrities helped create this Marxist monster, so I have no sympathy for them.
> 
> If* anything, I think the useful idiots that pushed the lie's of the BLM should be charged with sedition. Same with all the useful idiots, bureaucrats, and celebrities that pushed the peaceful protest narrative.* The republic is facing a growing Marxist insurrection, thanks in part to those retards and their sphere of influence.


How many people is this? On what grounds? It’s probably hyperbole, because 80% of what you say is hyperbolic, but I’m pumped to hear how you’re going to prosecute thousands of Americans on the basis of, “Their words made me upset.”

Also, you have access to dictionary. And a thesaurus. You can find a more eloquent way to demean entire groups of people without resorting to calling them ‘retards’.

Be better.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I think that depends on how outspoken the person is and their level of involvement in that community. That said, I'm not a fan of public officials using their position to get money from people. However... Lebron and many other celebrities helped create this Marxist monster, so I have no sympathy for them.
> 
> If anything, I think the useful idiots that pushed the lie's of the BLM should be charged with sedition. Same with all the useful idiots, bureaucrats, and celebrities that pushed the peaceful protest narrative. The republic is facing a growing Marxist insurrection, thanks in part to those retards and their sphere of influence.



We can't combat marxists by becoming fascists, brother.  We need to draw a bold line between the people who are truly breaking the law and trying to drag our country down through violence, and those who we are just saying things we don't like.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 15, 2020)

This seems excessive, even to me.  I wonder if it will stand up to a legal challenge:

*9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each*

9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each - The Police Tribune


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> How many people is this? On what grounds? It’s probably hyperbole, because 80% of what you say is hyperbolic, but I’m pumped to hear how you’re going to prosecute thousands of Americans on the basis of, “Their words made me upset.”
> 
> Also, you have access to dictionary. And a thesaurus. You can find a more eloquent way to demean entire groups of people without resorting to calling them ‘retards’.
> 
> Be better.


To be fair... calling these people cankerous vaginal pustules that foam degeneracy when popped is overly verbose. I have enough issues with grammar and run on sentences, adding floral sounding insults would be beyond the point. 

Also, this ain't about words that "make people upset". I'm talking about sedition. The republic is literally seeing the beginnings of a Marxist insurrection and we're quibbling over my "hyperbole". 

Dude... what's happening all over the country ain't magic. Communities being wiped out with fire, citizens being murdered, and our security apparatus being dismantlement isn't a coincidence. These people are actively rousing support for an overthrow of the nation and values that bind us together. Like it or not these people are enemies and they're churning out a hell of a psyop campaign.


Marauder06 said:


> We can't combat marxists by becoming fascists, brother.  We need to draw a bold line between the people who are truly breaking the law and trying to drag our country down through violence, and those who we are just saying things we don't like.


I totally get that bro and by no means am I advocating for fascism. Though there needs to be consequences for the Marxists who are actively spreading sedition and empowering terrorists on our nations soil. I'm all for free speech, but what these people are doing is much more sinister than that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This seems excessive, even to me.  I wonder if it will stand up to a legal challenge:
> 
> *9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each*
> 
> 9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each - The Police Tribune



Hey, that should be easy to post bond with that freedom fund that the Biden staffers and all those celebs were donating too. /snark

However, I'm fully appreciative that we have a DA and Mayor that are firmly supportive of their Law Enforcement Agency, what a breath of fresh air.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This seems excessive, even to me.  I wonder if it will stand up to a legal challenge:
> 
> *9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each*
> 
> 9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each - The Police Tribune



I think it’s fair considering the potential cost of damage from riots.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This seems excessive, even to me.  I wonder if it will stand up to a legal challenge:
> 
> *9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each*
> 
> 9 Lancaster Rioters Held On $1 Million Bail Each - The Police Tribune


Did you read the charge sheet?
IMO, this will also make some people think twice about ignoring the dispersal orders.
Make an example of one type thing.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ... snip...




Sedition hasn’t been successfully tried in a while, and never against a couple thousand Americans, all at once, to include celebrities, politicians and your rank and file Americans. Oddly, the topic of sedition popped up all over the MSM today. That’s a strange coincidence, considering your feelings on the MSM. 

That’s what hyperbole is. “Exaggerated claims not meant to be taken seriously.”

As for the rest of the quote (the part directed at me, I don’t speak for @Marauder06) - You’re most certainly upset by words. Just because you insist these words are ‘evil’ doesn’t change that fact. Advocating charging people with sedition over public statements (and little else) gives me pause. This isn’t China.

Remember- because you feel strongly doesn’t make you right, and you don’t hold any authority in the conversation because you’re committed.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I think that depends on how outspoken the person is and their level of involvement in that community. That said, I'm not a fan of public officials using their position to get money from people. However... Lebron and many other celebrities helped create this Marxist monster, so I have no sympathy for them.
> 
> If anything, I think the useful idiots that pushed the lie's of the BLM should be charged with sedition. Same with all the useful idiots, bureaucrats, and celebrities that pushed the peaceful protest narrative. The republic is facing a growing Marxist insurrection, thanks in part to those retards and their sphere of influence.


This is just fascism.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 35777
> 
> Sedition hasn’t been successfully tried in a while, and never against a couple thousand Americans, all at once, to include celebrities, politicians and your rank and file Americans. Oddly, the topic of sedition popped up all over the MSM today. That’s a strange coincidence, considering your feelings on the MSM.
> 
> ...


Would you prefer me use the term demoralization? Or should I point back a few months ago to where I stated that the DC swamp was staging a coup with the whole impeachment/Vindman debacle? I mean... sedition and insurrection seem to share similar political parallels.

Like it or not, social media is the perfect tool to carry out disinformation campaigns and sow the seeds of insurrection. How else do you classify our elite/bureaucrats/MSM spreading information to destabilize/demoralize the republic other than sedition? Hate to sound like a broken record, but Bezmenov called this.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

If true, we've got a problem.  You arrest the people being harassed, eventually they fight back.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306070890732548097


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Would you prefer me use the term demoralization? Or should I point back a few months ago to where I stated that the DC swamp was staging a coup with the whole impeachment/Vindman debacle? I mean... sedition and insurrection seem to share similar political parallels.
> 
> Like it or not, social media is the perfect tool to carry out disinformation campaigns and sow the seeds of insurrection. How else do you classify our elite/bureaucrats/MSM spreading information to destabilize/demoralize the republic other than sedition? Hate to sound like a broken record, but Bezmenov called this.


No, you don’t hate sounding like a broken record. You use the same 4, maybe 5 phrases (“Dude...”, “Bro...”, “Like it it not”...) to introduce wild shit you never back up (Marxist plot to take over the political bastion you _just so happen to support) _to use as a bridge to your ultimate demagoguery (“GOOD vs EVIL for the soul of the nation). It’s tiresome. Worst of all, it’s formulaic. At least be original, you know?


You’re on social media right now, spreading disinformation all the while bemoaning the very behavior you display. A coup? Really? That you called before hand and that ended up happening? When did that happen? I’m sure I would have gotten an email. Or an invite. Or something.

Keep obfuscating. Avoid. Distract. Make sure to warn everyone about the evil boogeyman- but thank goodness! Here, in this forum of poor souls- blind to the truth- we have you. To show us the truth.

Spare me. Two posts ago you were talking about putting NBA players in jail for Instagram posts.

You turn the temperature up in every conversation, only to back down with a cute emoji when called on it. “Oh gee, boss, I was jus playin! I wasn’t serious 😉” a la Bill Wharton. The most telling thing you ever said here was when you questioned other members’ motives, openly questioning whether they were trolls here to sow discord. At least you’re consistent- you withered when called out on that one, too.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 16, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> This is just fascism.



Bro, like like it or not, it isn't fascism if the side I support does it against that other side's useful idiots. /S


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

Filed under: Careful for what you wish for...

Minneapolis City Council members press police chief for response to rising crime


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> How else do you classify our elite/bureaucrats/MSM spreading information to destabilize/demoralize the republic other than sedition?


 One of my most trusted friends is a prominent member of the MSM. The eye rolls I get when I even broach this topic are enough to cause eye sprains...would you suggest he is deceiving me?




R.Caerbannog said:


> Like it or not, social media is the perfect tool to carry out disinformation campaigns and sow the seeds of insurrection.


Yeah, you’ve pretty much proven that.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 16, 2020)

We have a handful of 'disband-the-cops' groups in our town, and they have not gotten too much traction.  A couple days ago we had four shootings in four hours, and on the news the reporter was asking a (black, poor neighborhood) local what she thought and she responded (paraphrasing) 'we don't need to defund the police, we need more police.'  Broken record time: the areas which would be hardest hit are decidedly _NOT_ the 'defund-the-police' crowd.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

When questioned for “proof” by @DasBoot back in June, you responded with:



R.Caerbannog said:


> You are free to find the information for yourself dude. All I can do is share what I've found and hope you come to your own conclusions. In a way, this is a labor of love. I don't gain anything by having such unpopular opinions.


I will say again, the problem with people like you who see a grand conspiracy behind every corner is that you refuse to come to the table with your evidence.  Instead of saying, “here’s my proof”, we get “prove I’m not right”, or “it’s all out there for you to find”.




R.Caerbannog said:


> I don't gain anything by having such unpopular opinions.


I disagree. I believe you gain a perverse satisfaction and glee in convincing  incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable members of this forum to push back on the misinformation you post.

George Floyd/National Protests


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> No, you don’t hate sounding like a broken record. You use the same 4, maybe 5 phrases (“Dude...”, “Bro...”, “Like it it not”...) to introduce wild shit you never back up (Marxist plot to take over the political bastion you _just so happen to support) _to use as a bridge to your ultimate demagoguery (“GOOD vs EVIL for the soul of the nation). It’s tiresome. Worst of all, it’s formulaic. At least be original, you know?
> 
> 
> You’re on social media right now, spreading disinformation all the while bemoaning the very behavior you display. A coup? Really? That you called before hand and that ended up happening? When did that happen? I’m sure I would have gotten an email. Or an invite. Or something.
> ...


I'm not the one refusing to acknowledge the reality of the machinations behind this insurrection. As for "withering", this is your world. I try not to step on toes too much because some of y'all are as capricious as a Fayetteville dancer. 

Same with some of the muted members screaming into the ether.


Ooh-Rah said:


> One of my most trusted friends is a prominent member of the MSM. The eye rolls I get when I even broach this topic are enough to cause eye sprains...would you suggest he is deceiving me?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you’ve pretty much proven that.


Go back and rewatch some of Bezmenov's video's and the posts related to the MSM. There are plenty of examples of MSM duplicity here on these boards. Do the same with posts related to academia and the overt subversion coming outta there, demoralization is real.


Ooh-Rah said:


> When questioned for “proof” by @DasBoot back in June, you responded with:
> 
> 
> I will say again, the problem with people like you who see a grand conspiracy behind every corner is that you refuse to come to the table with your evidence.  Instead of saying, “here’s my proof”, we get “prove I’m not right”, or “it’s all out there for you to find”.
> ...


I ain't talking about a grand conspiracy. We are literally seeing Marxists taking to the streets, killing citizens, and burning down homes; all while spewing Marxist talking points and waving around commie iconography. Instead of looking at the micro and falling to emotion, start piecing the small events and figure out how they connect to the broader picture.

As for second point... I think you're being purposefully obtuse. Like I said, "I gain nothing from having such unpopular opinions".


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 16, 2020)

Pretty good talk about the cancerous and absurd nature of "woke" culture.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> As for second point... I think you're being purposefully obtuse. Like I said, "I gain nothing from having such unpopular opinions".


I disagree.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 16, 2020)

Growing up on the wrong side of the tracks all my life, I'd agree with the sentiment. I'd like to think that most in the areas I lived in feel the same. There are obviously shitbirds and the bad apples that would rather hit the meth pipe and get behind "ACAB" but the vast majority are just on the day to day. 


@Devildoc your post reminds me of this guy, and seeing it never gets old.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I'm not the one refusing to acknowledge the reality of the machinations behind this insurrection. As for "withering", this is your world. I try not to step on toes too much because some of y'all are as capricious as a Fayetteville dancer.


Who the fuck are you talking to? 

If you’re feeling maligned, use the report function and we will make sure you’re not being held to an unfair standard.

If not though- quit being passive aggressive and implying the staff isn’t doing their jobs. I’ve seen it twice, and that’s two times too many.

The rest of your comment was a mess that has heat applied to it.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Same with some of the muted members screaming into the ether.



Thought you were all about open discussion and didn't mind dissenting viewpoints?

Don't bother answering that question, this line did it for you


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 16, 2020)

On topic though;

We absolutely are seeing a number of anarchists/commie/actual socialist(IE workers control means)/dissident groups out and about causing chaos.

That doesn't mean it's all some plot concocted by the CCP/GRU/"libtards" to overthrow the country; it's that these groups always try and take advantage of public upheaval. They're parasites; they know most Americans wouldn't support them without some sort of emotional issue connected to it. 

We've got freedoms enshrined in the Constitution that guarantee these people are allowed to have a voice; shit, the Constitution even gives them the ability to totally change the government if they can get the support to.  To be attack people opposed to our current form of government as guilty of treason and sedition is ridiculous.

Words are not actions, no matter how much you don't like the words.

Also, I don't care that Bezmenov supports your viewpoint; I can find a bunch of Holocaust survivors who compare Trump to Hitler's fascist rise and the illegal immigrant internment camps to the work camps, but people would discredit that if they were politically opposed to it.


----------



## DasBoot (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I'm not the one refusing to acknowledge the reality of the machinations behind this insurrection. As for "withering", this is your world. I try not to step on toes too much because some of y'all are as capricious as a Fayetteville dancer.
> 
> Same with some of the muted members screaming into the ether.
> 
> ...


Your only source for the majority of your posts is this Bezmenov gentleman. And you rarely cite him directly, you reference him as though you’re citing a religious text.

You approach this entire topic like a religious zealot- you know he truth, nothing can dissuade you from that conviction, and everyone else is ignorant and lost until you can convert them.

Your “citations” for your arguments are the scholastic equivalent of saying “figure it out yourself.” Again, you reference Bezmenov over and over, expecting us to all go and research him as well as you have. Or appear to have- it’s quite likely you’ve indulged in 1-2 YouTube rabbit holes and became an acolyte.

If you made it clear this is all your “opinion” or based on a “feeling”- well who am I to argue with that. Think what you want. When you speak with absolute authority, with virtually no proof or references, you tend to draw the ire of the people you’re trying to “educate.”

99% positive I’m on your ignore list so... I’ll keep aimlessly talking to myself.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 16, 2020)

The Chinese, Russian's, Iranian's and so on; are all actively try to destabilize the western world.  They always have. They aren't supporting any side, they just want chaos.  There's no giant conspiracy or Marxist agenda.  Same as there isn't some giant right wing, Boogaloo agenda.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

@DasBoot said:
_Your only source for the majority of your posts is this Bezmenov gentleman. And you rarely cite him directly, you reference him as though you’re citing a religious text.

You approach this entire topic like a religious zealot- you know he truth, nothing can dissuade you from that conviction, and everyone else is ignorant and lost until you can convert them.

Your “citations” for your arguments are the scholastic equivalent of saying “figure it out yourself.” Again, you reference Bezmenov over and over, expecting us to all go and research him as well as you have. Or appear to have- it’s quite likely you’ve indulged in 1-2 YouTube rabbit holes and became an acolyte.

If you made it clear this is all your “opinion” or based on a “feeling”- well who am I to argue with that. Think what you want. When you speak with absolute authority, with virtually no proof or references, you tend to draw the ire of the people you’re trying to “educate.”_

*99% positive I’m on your ignore list so... I’ll keep aimlessly talking to myself*

———————————-
Solid post, happy to make it more visible. 
OohRah


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Clearly Antifa and BLM riots have been well funded and well organized endeavors.  They're clearly destabilizing our culture.  I would agree with @R.Caerbannog and @Rapid that this has been a long time coming.  The only reason that thousands of people hold these beliefs is because they've been educated along a specific tract. 

Our education system has been highly left leaning for a very long time. There is minimal diversity of thought when it comes to whom is teaching at the University level. We're no longer teaching people to think and challenging them, or that is ideally what University education should be. But professors are wearing their political colors on their sleeves.

I have a friend that teaches AP classes to High School seniors. Their last exam before they take their AP exam always has the question, which of course has nothing to do with the subject they're taking is- "What political party do you think Mr [blank] supports". And he has said in the last five years the average always comes out to 50-50 D or R.

And as Sharpton says-only the rich latte liberal from the Hamptons thinks that defunding the police is an actual solution.  Actual crime ridden communities want more, but, better policing.

Now I'll disagree with the whole prosecuting thousands of people with Sedition, there may be a handful of bad actors that you can successfully prosecute that.  What I am completely in favor of is prosecutors doing their damn jobs and prosecuting rioters that burn down buildings, destroy businesses, and go into residential neighborhoods to intimidate people.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 16, 2020)

Study: Up To 95 Percent Of 2020 U.S. Riots Linked To Black Lives Matter


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Here’s the report does seem at least to me very one sided Demonstrations & Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020 | ACLED


I wonder if that report has changed much since I posted it 8 days ago in this post?




ThunderHorse said:


> We had a BLM protest up in Prescott.  Prescott is known for being a conservative town and Yavapai County is pretty conservative.  I wouldn't say it's a racist place...there's some other towns in AZ I would point you to.  But literally what happened was assholes from Phoenix drove up there to do a march and the people who didn't want the BLM violence that occurred in downtown Phoenix in their town and they yelled expletives.  In the footage I saw there were no slurs, no Confederate Battle flags.  And it all ended peacefully.
> 
> But this whole going out and picking a fight thing that we see today is very strange. You can draw parallels to the Civil Rights movement but it is clearly not the same at all, if anything there's way more violence today across the entire country by comparison.
> 
> So a lot of Liberal Leaning papers are touting this report from the ACLED...I have no idea who they are. But according to them only 7% of the protests have been violent. I can see a huge number being non-violent. But as I've watched these things nationally and locally I have a HARD time believing that statistic. And if it's true, think about the inordinate amount of damage done by the 7%. Entire cities are going to be plunged into economic depressions.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I wonder if that report has changed much since I posted it 8 days ago in this post?


I did not know that my bad


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 16, 2020)

Interesting read on the terrorism problem in America.

The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Interesting read on the terrorism problem in America.
> 
> The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States



That _was_ interesting; especially the definitions.  Awfully broad and with room for interpretation.  For sure the definition, breadth, and scope of domestic terrorism has changed over 30+ years... hijackings and kidnappings are passe now, the activities in the article have increased.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I did not know that my bad


Honest question on my part, because you have the Left interpreting one thing from that data set and the right interpreting another.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Honest question on my part, because you have the Left interpreting one thing from that data set and the right interpreting another.


I don’t think it has changed but the way they seem to explain the data seems bias at least to me


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I don’t think it has changed but the way they seem to explain the data seems bias at least to me


Oh, the ACLED is clearly biased in their interpretation of the data for sure, and trying to downplay the violence is between annoying and despicable.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That _was_ interesting; especially the definitions.  Awfully broad and with room for interpretation.  For sure the definition, breadth, and scope of domestic terrorism has changed over 30+ years... hijackings and kidnappings are passe now, the activities in the article have increased.




Right wing terrorism is said to be the most common since the 90s, yet I can only think of 1 large right wing attack in the past few years, the clown who shot up a Walmart somewhere. California, Pulse Nightclub, vehicle attack near me at Ohio State all jihad inspired...haven't heard of an abortion bombing or racial killing in a while.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 16, 2020)

WSJ News Exclusive | Barr Tells Prosecutors to Consider Charging Violent Protesters With Sedition



> Attorney General William Barr told the nation’s federal prosecutors to be aggressive when charging violent demonstrators with crimes, including potentially prosecuting them for plotting to overthrow the U.S. government, people familiar with the conversation said.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 16, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Right wing terrorism is said to be the most common since the 90s, yet I can only think of 1 large right wing attack in the past few years, the clown who shot up a Walmart somewhere. California, Pulse Nightclub, vehicle attack near me at Ohio State all jihad inspired...haven't heard of an abortion bombing or racial killing in a while.



The Wisconsin Sikh Temple Shooting, Charleston Church shooting, the Portland train attack, the Charlottesville car attack, the Synagouge shootings in Pennsylvania and Cali, the El Paso shooting....

ETA: I'm not including anything involving sovereign citizens(2014 Vegas shooting) or militia movements(IE: OKC bombing), but those are usually placed under the banner of "right wing".


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 16, 2020)

The problem I have with the definitions in that article, if I say I don't like the government's policies regarding abortion or the second amendment, that clearly connects me with a dotted line to right-wing fringe, and just a step away from being under suspicion for colluding with domestic terrorist organizations if I ever join a club to march against abortion or join a militia that fights for second amendment rights.  Am I a right-wing terrorist because I want to see the government blown up (metaphorically) because it's too big?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Filed under: Careful for what you wish for...
> 
> Minneapolis City Council members press police chief for response to rising crime



This one is a great headline:

Mpls. City Council asks: Where are the police?

Like, you voted to disband the cops and now they've become risk averse because you bowed down to the mob.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 16, 2020)

ah, the irony.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

So about that Freedom Fund:

Bail Fund Promoted By Kamala Harris Helped Man Accused Of Sexually Penetrating A Child


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 16, 2020)

Charleston was one in forgot about, the Sihk temple too. El Paso was the Walmart guy I couldn't remember the city.

I really have one the high profile attacks in my head, the LV guy was a random maniac too, I refuse to remember their names.

Cali was the AQ or IS inspired couple as far as I remember. I guess I'm not including random small scale attacks, amd only thinking about the best g ones.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The Wisconsin Sikh Temple Shooting, Charleston Church shooting, the Portland train attack, the Charlottesville car attack, the Synagouge shootings in Pennsylvania and *Cali*, the El Paso shooting....
> 
> ETA: I'm not including anything involving sovereign citizens(2014 Vegas shooting) or militia movements(IE: OKC bombing), but those are usually placed under the banner of "right wing".



If you're talking about the 2015 San Bernardino Regional Center attack, that was a radicalized Muslim, the wife was Pakistani and he met her either on a trip to the ME or online.  Unless you're thinking of something different?


----------



## youngidiot (Sep 16, 2020)

So horrible to see. No respect for them. My dad been a firefighter for 20 years now and I can’t believe they suspended these players.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> If you're talking about the 2015 San Bernardino Regional Center attack, that was a radicalized Muslim, the wife was Pakistani and he met her either on a trip to the ME or online.  Unless you're thinking of something different?



Maybe the Cali garlic or olive oil fest or whatever it was?


----------



## youngidiot (Sep 16, 2020)

You can find the video of the football players proudly running with the flags anywhere online.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Maybe the Cali garlic or olive oil fest or whatever it was?



Geeze, that was just last Summer.  Completely forgot about that.


----------



## medicchick (Sep 16, 2020)

JedisonsDad said:


> Maybe the Cali garlic or olive oil fest or whatever it was?


Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting - Wikipedia


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> If you're talking about the 2015 San Bernardino Regional Center attack, that was a radicalized Muslim, the wife was Pakistani and he met her either on a trip to the ME or online.  Unless you're thinking of something different?


It was this: Poway synagogue shooting - Wikipedia

Shot up a synagogue and set fire to a mosque


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 16, 2020)

Lets also not forget this narrowly-averted incident in Miami, which nobody really talks about: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article214823050.html

It would’ve been the single biggest act of domestic terrorism since the Oklahoma city bombings


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 16, 2020)

It feels like this thread is drifting away from its topic. Should these be in the Domestic Terrorism thread?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Who the fuck are you talking to?
> 
> If you’re feeling maligned, use the report function and we will make sure you’re not being held to an unfair standard.
> 
> ...


You and the peeps on my ignore list who seem to enjoy mocking me. It's no biggy though, as some of the quips and comparisons are rather humorous. That said, if we're going to partake in barracks talk don't be upset when I respond in kind.

As for using the report feature, I see no point in wasting the staff's time over petty insults. Staff is doing just fine.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> You and the peeps on my ignore list who seem to enjoy mocking me. It's no biggy though, as some of the quips and comparisons are rather humorous. That said, if we're going to partake in barracks talk don't be upset when I respond in kind.
> 
> As for using the report feature, I see no point in wasting the staff's time over petty insults. Staff is doing just fine.


“I’m not mad. I’m laughing, actually”


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 16, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 17, 2020)

Two Lacy Johnson (Ilhan Omar's Opponent) staffers were shot, one is deceased.

Two campaign aides shot in Minneapolis


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## R.Caerbannog (Sep 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Two Lacy Johnson (Ilhan Omar's Opponent) staffers were shot, one is deceased.
> 
> Two campaign aides shot in Minneapolis


I really wanna see the security footage that led to this event. Cause it sounds like the staffers were marked out as targets by the shooter.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> JFC.  We just had a drive by at the Federal Courthouse in Phoenix, one officer down, supposedly in stable condition.
> 
> Suspect sought after shooting outside of Phoenix courthouse
> 
> ...



Second shooting against officers in three days, Troopers all good, suspect in custody and driver at large.

Suspect arrested after trooper-involved shooting near 35th Ave and Roosevelt

That was quick, my phone just blared with a blue alert.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 17, 2020)




----------



## racing_kitty (Sep 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> View attachment 35801



Someone was holding a bottle of Grey Goose hostage. This was her ransom payment.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 17, 2020)

This could have went into multiple threads. 

Black Lives Matter co-founder teams up with pro-Chinese Communist Party group


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 17, 2020)

^I think earlier in the thread we were debating sedition and conspiracies about outside agents seeking to overthrow the government. I'm going to guess any "pro China" group has more than just tacit approval from China itself.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 20, 2020)

Another indication of the power of the media to shape public opinion and subsequent human behavior by excessively magnifying the perception of widespread violence by disproportionately broadcasting violent outliers among Black Lives Matter demonstrations.

93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds

The study included everything from road barricades and petty vandalism to toppling statues, attacking businesses, and fighting back against the police in its broad definition of violence.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Another indication of the power of the media to shape public opinion and subsequent human behavior by excessively magnifying the perception of widespread violence by disproportionately broadcasting violent outliers among Black Lives Matter demonstrations.
> 
> 93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds
> 
> The study included everything from road barricades and petty vandalism to toppling statues, attacking businesses, and fighting back against the police in its broad definition of violence.



It was brought up a couple of weeks ago when that was published, but are we supposed to judge it on a percentage or that actual cost of these riots? either figurative cost in votes going to Trump or actual cost of over a billion dollars. We can pretend that there isn't anything to see here, but that would be incredibly naive.

Exclusive: $1 billion-plus riot damage is most expensive in insurance history


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 20, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> It was brought up a couple of weeks ago when that was published, but are we supposed to judge it on a percentage or that actual cost of these riots?


Judge what?  All the article did was link a report with statistics showing that the violence during Black Lives Matters demonstrations was nowhere near as prevalent or widespread as both the media and professional talking heads have claimed.





Florida173 said:


> either figurative cost in votes going to Trump or actual cost of over a billion dollars. We can pretend that there isn't anything to see here, but that would be incredibly naive.


It's neither making a claim related to the total costs of damage incurred nor 'pretending' that 7% isn't anything to see here.  Neither your point nor the article's findings are mutually exclusive to each other, and it is not helpful to the conversation to conflate the findings with an unwarranted conclusion that was never asserted.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Judge what?  All the article did was link a report with statistics showing that the violence during Black Lives Matters demonstrations was nowhere near as prevalent or widespread as both the media and professional talking heads have claimed.It's neither making a claim related to the total costs of damage incurred nor 'pretending' that 7% isn't anything to see here.  Neither your point nor the article's findings are mutually exclusive to each other, and it is not helpful to the conversation to conflate the findings with an unwarranted conclusion that was never asserted.



It's true in healthcare, it's true in social work, it is true in law enforcement especially in the disadvantaged neighborhoods, 10% of the people require 90% of the time and resources.  If 93% of the riotors are peaceful and only 7% are responsible for billions of dollars of damage, I think that is absolutely conversation worth having. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting your last point.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 20, 2020)

So let me get this straight... 

A small percentage of police officer's are shitbags and are worth up ending society over.  

A small percentage of BLM protestor's are actually shitbag rioters but we can't talk about that.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Judge what?  All the article did was link a report with statistics showing that the violence during Black Lives Matters demonstrations was nowhere near as prevalent or widespread as both the media and professional talking heads have claimed.It's neither making a claim related to the total costs of damage incurred nor 'pretending' that 7% isn't anything to see here.  Neither your point nor the article's findings are mutually exclusive to each other, and it is not helpful to the conversation to conflate the findings with an unwarranted conclusion that was never asserted.



Well that's either being intentionally obtuse or just trying to mislead us by suggesting that you were only linking an article without commentary. Your commentary was specific in that the media is ingeniously showing "*Another indication of the power of the media to shape public opinion and subsequent human behavior by excessively magnifying the perception of widespread violence by disproportionately broadcasting violent outliers among Black Lives Matter demonstrations.*"


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 20, 2020)

The study also points out that they break it down block by block some times. So if five city blocks are burning, that can be counted as one violent protest, but the four blocks on the opposite sides of the burning ones can be counted as four separate  peaceful protests.

Unfortunately, something as scientific as data can be skewed to meet any narrative. Without knowing their exact standards, this article and referenced report can be lumped into the pile of “media influencing people”.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

Someone needs to explain to me how harassing people while they're eating dinner is an effective vote changing tactic.  This is San Diego:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307513308916797441
Glad to see the riots are back in Portland and Seattle. /snark

____________________________________________


Locksteady said:


> Another indication of the power of the media to shape public opinion and subsequent human behavior by excessively magnifying the perception of widespread violence by disproportionately broadcasting violent outliers among Black Lives Matter demonstrations.
> 
> 93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds
> 
> The study included everything from road barricades and petty vandalism to toppling statues, attacking businesses, and fighting back against the police in its broad definition of violence.



This report has been posted twice previously. Posts 2,110 and 2,195.  Yes, they included everything, they get down to the nitty gritty like @JedisonsDad stated basically separating three blocks of one protest from the same protest because one place arson wasn't committed.  Which is pretty damned selective.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Someone needs to explain to me how harassing people while they're eating dinner is an effective vote changing tactic.  This is San Diego:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307513308916797441
> ...


The whole article reeks of bias on how they present the data


----------



## BrassOverBolt (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Another indication of the power of the media to shape public opinion and subsequent human behavior by excessively magnifying the perception of widespread violence by disproportionately broadcasting violent outliers among Black Lives Matter demonstrations.
> 
> 93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds
> 
> The study included everything from road barricades and petty vandalism to toppling statues, attacking businesses, and fighting back against the police in its broad definition of violence.


                      Even if we are to take the claim that only 7% of BLM protests are violent, IMO it only tells part of the story. I'd be interested to see the statistics, if any, regarding those who are apologists for such destructive/threatening behavior but do/did not directly participate.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

Intruder with knife, boy being held: No Portland police response for 1 hour, 36 minutes

I suspect there's a lot of reasons why they weren't able to respond for 90 minutes.  But maybe people will wake up?


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Intruder with knife, boy being held: No Portland police response for 1 hour, 36 minutes
> 
> I suspect there's a lot of reasons why they weren't able to respond for 90 minutes.  But maybe people will wake up?



If the kids getting their brains blown out because they got caught in the crossfire, or watched as their dad gets executed while they're in the backseat of the car didn't wake them up. This won't either.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 20, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well that's either being intentionally obtuse or just trying to mislead us by suggesting that you were only linking an article without commentary.


No, it isn't, nor does it suggest anything about whether my post had commentary - much less try to 'mislead' people into thinking that something they can scroll up to see is suddenly not there.  

Hell, I don't even have those editing privileges. 

It focuses on the fact that you asked about how to judge 'something' that was '*brought up a couple of weeks ago when that was published'* in terms of '*figurative cost in votes going to Trump or actual cost of over a billion dollars*'.

Unless a claim in my commentary directly prompted that question in those metrics, there is no basis to construe my pointing out the disparity between your question and the actual claims in the article as an intentional bait-and-switch, since there is no advantage to be gained for me by doing it.  

This being the case, what you did may be the actual misleading element in this discussion, since you're purposely shifting attention towards a less relevant element of the post that ultimately holds no bearing to the original point.

Or, as some prefer, a classic red herring.


----------



## compforce (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> or watched as their dad gets executed while they're in the backseat of the car didn't wake them up. This won't either.



That's a bit very inflammatory given that their dad was at the residence of a woman that he had sexually assaulted, had a knife, not just any knife, but a karambit, had been tased and fought back before going for the front seat of the car while continually making threats against the police.

I hate it for the kids, I really do, but let's not use them as pawns to make points.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 20, 2020)

The fact we're even having this discussion shows how screwed up things have become in our country.

Where we all thought we were headed in the past few years....we're going there.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

compforce said:


> That's a bit very inflammatory given that their dad was at the residence of a woman that he had sexually assaulted, had a knife, not just any knife, but a karambit, had been tased and fought back before going for the front seat of the car while continually making threats against the police.
> 
> I hate it for the kids, I really do, but let's not use them as pawns to make points.




That's not what I was talking about at all, I was referencing the massive increase in terms gang violence and shootings across the Country. Nothing I said had anything to do with Police related shootings.

To add, I'll have to find the specific instances I had referenced give me a few.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 20, 2020)

^I understand those references, the overwhelming majority of serious violent crime victims in America are poor black people.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

@compforce 

Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it. 

Just wondering, what part of that post made you think I was hanging the kids deaths on police? Or had anything to do with the shooting in Kenosha?

Infant critically wounded in Bishop Ford Expy. shooting


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> No, it isn't, nor does it suggest anything about whether my post had commentary - much less try to 'mislead' people into thinking that something they can scroll up to see is suddenly not there.
> 
> Hell, I don't even have those editing privileges.
> 
> ...


So the riots weren’t that big of deal?


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> That's not what I was talking about at all, I was referencing the massive increase in terms gang violence and shootings across the Country. Nothing I said had anything to do with Police related shootings.
> 
> To add, I'll have to find the specific instances I had referenced give me a few.


You were vague.  I made the same assumption that @compforce did.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> No, it isn't, nor does it suggest anything about whether my post had commentary - much less try to 'mislead' people into thinking that something they can scroll up to see is suddenly not there.
> 
> Hell, I don't even have those editing privileges.
> 
> ...


"Studies" showing how "peaceful" the riots are are proof the unrest is hurting democrats and helping Trump.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 20, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So the riots weren’t that big of deal?


Sure, at least I think so.

How about you?


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Sure, at least I think so.
> 
> How about you?




Could you explain more in depth for my understanding at least?


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Sure, at least I think so.
> 
> How about you?


I think they were a big deal and really hurt the message of those who were peacefully trying to have their grievances addressed.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @compforce
> 
> Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it.
> 
> ...



Interestingly these were normal headlines from the town south of mine every month if not weekly when I was growing up. We used to call it Gang Violence, but now newspapers are calling them mass shootings and sometimes without referencing that it is gang violence, because the focus seems to be to defund police departments and restricting gun rights for the law abiding.  

Noticing that is from the south side of Chicago it's unsurprising.  Crime in the South Side has been skyrocketing since the Mayor basically gave in to the mob.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Could you explain more in depth for my understanding at least?


Sure, my inbox is open to continue the derail so we can let the broader discussion continue, in case I've already taken too much thread space responding to each reply.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Sure, my inbox is open to continue the derail so we can let the broader discussion continue, in case I've already taken too much thread space responding to each reply.



Seeing as this is the George Floyd/National Protest thread I feel like it would be fine, but sure. Stand by.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interestingly these were normal headlines from the town south of mine every month if not weekly when I was growing up. We used to call it Gang Violence, but now newspapers are calling them mass shootings and sometimes without referencing that it is gang violence, because the focus seems to be to defund police departments and restricting gun rights for the law abiding.
> 
> Noticing that is from the south side of Chicago it's unsurprising.  Crime in the South Side has been skyrocketing since the Mayor basically gave in to the mob.



The worst part of it all is, for those who didn't grow up around those areas they don't really have an understanding of it. They see it on the news or hear about it on social media and the immediate reaction is "oh that's unfortunate" then move on immediately to whatever they were doing. Since it doesn't affect them directly it's in essence out of sight out of mind.

I think that's what's going on with a lot of the defund the police crowd. I'm not really seeing the mom of 3 on EBT with the dude slinging on the corner calling for no more police, but the college kid with a Che body pillow doing it. 

I don't know, not really sure how to word what I'm  trying to say effectively right now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> The worst part of it all is, for those who didn't grow up around those areas they don't really have an understanding of it. They see it on the news or hear about it on social media and the immediate reaction is "oh that's unfortunate" then move on immediately to whatever they were doing. Since it doesn't affect them directly it's in essence out of sight out of mind.
> 
> I think that's what's going on with a lot of the defund the police crowd. I'm not really seeing the mom of 3 on EBT with the dude slinging on the corner calling for no more police, but the college kid with a Che body pillow doing it.
> 
> I don't know, not really sure how to word what I'm  trying to say effectively right now.



Al Sharpton said it best: the latte liberal from the Hamptons. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303278594530181121


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 20, 2020)

That the riots were allowed at all under the misleading label of "protests" is criminal and speaks  volumes about the municipal leadership who allows it.


----------



## medicchick (Sep 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That the riots were allowed at all under the misleading label of "protests" is criminal and speaks  volumes about the municipal leadership who allows it.


Oh they were find and dandy here in Portland, hell the mayor even took part (and PPB had fun macing his ass) until they moved it to outside his house. Now they were a problem and he "has to move because of what this did to his neighbors".


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts. 

Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job


----------



## medicchick (Sep 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @compforce
> 
> Here you go, I wasn't able to find the one where the parent was executed but I may have misread the article I'll see if I can find it but if I don't post anything then I'll own it.
> 
> ...


I thought about the same cases/as conclusion. It's reasonable given the recent instances that had national attention.


----------



## AWP (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not sure if this is wholly connected, but I suspect that Chicago PD will need to start providing armed escorts.
> 
> Chicago postal workers threaten to stop delivering mail after multiple employees shot on the job



The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> The absolute irony of postal workers, one of the most diligent Democrat-voting unions in the country, asking for police protection while they deliver mail in a Democrat controlled city...


I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.  

I would call this sad -  especially in cities like Chicago.

Firstly, postal workers aren't a voting demographic anomaly across unions.  The majority of unions have a consistent Democrat-voting majority on their rosters.

Secondly, 'defund the police' is a months-long recent national phenomenon that is ludicrous to frame as representing a pension-focused Democrat-voting government workforce that regularly transits into some of the previously worst crime-ridden neighborhoods in the nation.

A more honest or discerning appraisal might tentatively characterize this as a sign that traditional working-class Democrat voters in major American metropolises are responding to the fact that their leaders are taking cues from the people least positioned to risk the fallout from their 'high-minded' solutions to police brutality.

Lastly, and what is *not* helping this situation, is the fact that last month, *President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers* - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.  

The Postal Police Officers Association (national level) is already in the *process of suing the Postmaster General* for this.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I see your point, but I wouldn't at all characterize this as ironic.
> 
> I would call this sad -  especially in cities like Chicago.
> 
> ...



USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.  I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.


----------



## AWP (Sep 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Lastly, and what is *not* helping this situation, is the fact that last month, *President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers* - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.



As a former subcontractor for the USPS, 1997-2000, they did not patrol ANYWHERE. Those are postal inspectors who were classified as LEO's. Those are the guys and gals who investigate postal fraud. Their physical security was limited to the security of any postal facility. Would they maybe make runs with carriers to assess situations, go "outside the wire" so to speak? Maybe. 99.99% of their jobs though involved investigating crime. They had badges, weapons, arrest powers, etc.



ThunderHorse said:


> USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.  I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.



Bingo.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 21, 2020)

A clarifying correction before moving ahead: President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers *outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service*.

The core argument is unaffected.





ThunderHorse said:


> USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.


If you're trying to shift this from a 'do they patrol or not' question to a 'how effective is it' question, that is reasonable to ask in response to a different assertion.  This issue is also exacerbated by POTUS' refusal of COVID-19-related emergency funding to the USPS.

Bottom line from the previous post stands:  Dejoy's decision to remove -yet another- LEO entity from protecting its own federal workers only contributes to this problem.





ThunderHorse said:


> I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.


Honest question:  Do you just reflexively use lazy suppositions to make all this up and hope something sticks? 

That definitely won't work in this case.

It is announced as an *intentional practice in Chicago to protect mail carriers on their routes*.





> That’s why the Postal Inspection Service is responding with an extra layer of security to help carriers stay safe and avoid becoming victims of street crime.
> 
> In the Chicago District, *that means using Postal Police Officers on street patrols*.
> . . .
> ...


The practice is included in *their lawsuit* as something they increased from previously before.

Jurisdiction and Venue of the Lawsuit: Point 29:





> *The Postal Service increasingly deployed Postal Police Officers for mobile patrols away from postal facilities, to protect letter carriers and the mail in dangerous areas*, to stop mail theft from carriers and from collection boxes, and to insure the safety of the mail at airports.


And their jurisdiction to do so is undisputed, as shown in *HR 6407 RDS*:


> SEC. 1001. EMPLOYMENT OF POSTAL POLICE OFFICERS. Section 3061 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `(c)(1) The Postal Service may employ police officers for duty in connection with the protection of property owned or occupied by the Postal Service or under the charge and control of the Postal Service, and persons on that property,* including duty in areas outside the property to the extent necessary to protect the property and persons on the property.*


TL;DR it has legal precedence and was employed specifically to prevent situations like the cited mail worker shooting before Trump removed their LE authority in August.

Neither Postal Workers nor Postal Police Officers are celebrating this decision.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 21, 2020)

So in the wake of police violence, you think the solution isn’t to better fund actual police so they can properly do their job, but to instead better fund a small section of police, in a field that has its own term of being violent (going postal), so that they can do a job outside of their realm of original responsibility? Keeping in mind, that with how small this section of Postal Police are, the amount they might receive would be negligible considering they are operating for a business that constantly operates in the red financially.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 21, 2020)

So....all of a sudden the Postal Police, a group that makes up 0.0024% of USPS employees, is getting butthurt because leadership is crying poor-mouth blues and they cannot tac up and "patrol" outside the wire?  They have a hard enough time protecting the USPS employees inside the facilities.  No, no politics here...


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 21, 2020)

It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.  

Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.
> 
> Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned



Before I was married my good friend's fiance-then-wife was a grad student at UNC-CH.  At a variety of parties, cook-outs, and get-togethers I met a bunch of her friends (I nailed a couple, too, but that's a different story for a different thread).  Anywho, they were all--every single one of them--stereotypical left-leaning 'sorority Marxists'.  They never saw the disconnect between playing with Daddy's money and advocating a Che Guevara culture and political scene.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> A clarifying correction before moving ahead: President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers *outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service*.
> 
> The core argument is unaffected.If you're trying to shift this from a 'do they patrol or not' question to a 'how effective is it' question, that is reasonable to ask in response to a different assertion.  This issue is also exacerbated by POTUS' refusal of COVID-19-related emergency funding to the USPS.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what you mean by a "lazy position" but I could point the tens of posts you have without citation of evidence.  I'm glad and thank you that you posted some in this response.  However, my position remains the same, the USPIS has limited capacity to do any "patrolling" and that is most definitely not their mission. There are over 600,000 Postal Service employees, so for the USPIS to be somehow be effective at patrolling the street for mail carriers it would need to become pretty huge.

If you think that is a lazy position, fine. But I don't think we'll have an honest conversation about this subject.


______________________



RackMaster said:


> It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.
> 
> Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned



I saw those Ernesto shirts at department stores and I had no idea who he was for awhile or why counter-culture folks wore them.  And then in college I read the Brotherhood of War series by WEB Griffin.  Sometimes reading historical fiction is awesome because then I spent a few weeks looking at the Cuban Civil War and the activities of Cuba and Ernesto himself during the Cold War.  I wish I could get every one of those dickheads I knew that wore his shirt, and let's include Kaepernick in there, in a room where I could put on a slide show of what that scumbag did to people.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by a "lazy position" but I could point the tens of posts you have without citation of evidence.


Well, speaking of lazy, perhaps in the context of reading  .. I said *sup*position, like an assumption with the 'lazy' caveat being that you routinely don't seem to check if there's any credence to some of the claims you throw out in your responses to my posts.

There is no equating that with my occasional exclusion of available citations in initial posts that I consistently provide whenever they are requested.





ThunderHorse said:


> I'm glad and thank you that you posted some in this response.


Definitely, and I value the fact that you hold those with whom you disagree accountable that way.





ThunderHorse said:


> However, my position remains the same, the USPIS has limited capacity to do any "patrolling"


This is an adjustment from your previous statement, "nor do they have real capacity to such a thing", which I have shown is inaccurate and that they do have a 'real' capacity and authority to do it - or did.  

Your new statement doesn't collide with any point from my previous post.





ThunderHorse said:


> and that is most definitely not their mission.


However you choose to parse it, Postal Police Officers are authorized to and do patrol mail routes as a part of their mission to protect postal employees and mail.





ThunderHorse said:


> There are over 600,000 Postal Service employees, so for the USPIS to be somehow be effective at patrolling the street for mail carriers it would need to become pretty huge.


As I mentioned earlier your question of effectiveness is a good one and I certainly agree with you here that more Postal Police Officers = more effectiveness in these duties.





ThunderHorse said:


> But I don't think we'll have an honest conversation about this subject.


I'm less willing to facilitate a self-fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It seems that a lot of those being detained for out of control behaviour, are wealthy white women.
> 
> Don’t shed a single tear for the suffering of ‘sorority Marxists’ — they’ve earned


That was a scarily accurate profile of some of the students ready to 'punch a Nazi' I've encountered in the last decade on a college campus.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That was a scarily accurate profile of some of the students ready to 'punch a Nazi' I've encountered in the last decade on a college campus.


What would be an inaccurate profile? I’m genuinely curious?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> This is an adjustment from your previous statement, "nor do they have real capacity to such a thing", which I have shown is inaccurate and that they do have a 'real' capacity and authority to do it - or did.



Not really an adjustment, I just used a different word.  And yes, I know, as Captain Cushman once told my OBC class: "WORDS MEAN THINGS".  But effectively. "NO REAL" and LIMITED in this use are effectively the same.  With roughly 1,200 Postal Inspectors, their job is more like a detective rather than patrol cop to be honest. 

But to put this into further context. The USPS operates 31,322 Retail Post Offices in this country. So, how do think the USPIS would do Patrol for Mail Carriers?

The US Marshall's Service has 3,571 deputy marshalls. The FBI roughly has 35,000 employees, and only 1/3 of those are special agents.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 21, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> What would be an accurate profile? I’m genuinely curious?



Did you misunderstand that figure of speech he used?

"Scarily accurate" = so accurate as to be astonishing.

IE: That article described personalities that he has encountered enough to be cliche at this point


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not really an adjustment, I just used a different word.  And yes, I know, as Captain Cushman once told my OBC class: "WORDS MEAN THINGS".  But effectively. "NO REAL" and LIMITED in this use are effectively the same.


I'd stick with 'limited' in this case to avoid the ambiguity in 'real' the may have caused us to talk past each other.





ThunderHorse said:


> With roughly 1,200 Postal Inspectors, their job is more like a detective rather than patrol cop to be honest.


Probably best to take it up with USPS If you have a contention with the language they use for their own PPO operations.





ThunderHorse said:


> But to put this into further context. The USPS operates 31,322 Retail Post Offices in this country. So, how do think the USPIS would do Patrol for Mail Carriers?
> 
> The US Marshall's Service has 3,571 deputy marshalls. The FBI roughly has 35,000 employees, and only 1/3 of those are special agents.


I understand where you're coming from with your reasoning, and in wondering how it at all effectively functions.

I'm just saying whatever you're doubting is an actual thing with an actual union of Postal Police Officers willing to actually sue the federal government for taking it away from them.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 21, 2020)

Department Of Justice Identifies New York City, Portland And Seattle As Jurisdictions Permitting Violence And Destruction Of Property


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Well ladies and gentlemen, shit's about to get real in Louisville.  State of Emergency has been declared and LMPD is deploying fencing in downtown. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308128326670790657


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 21, 2020)

Oh goody.  That means Minneapolis is about to go up in flames as well.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh goody.  That means Minneapolis is about to go up in flames as well.


How much is left?


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 21, 2020)

I hope we don't figure out a cop was shot and it's that guys fault she died.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 23, 2020)

Standby....

Kentucky AG will announce Breonna Taylor decision this afternoon — Daily Mail


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Standby....
> 
> Kentucky AG will announce Breonna Taylor decision this afternoon — Daily Mail



I'd be very surprised if they bring charges. Hunker down as it'll probably be a bad next couple of a days. It's unfortunate. You feeling the same way?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 23, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'd be very surprised if they bring charges. Hunker down as it'll probably be a bad next couple of a days. It's unfortunate. You feeling the same way?


Truthfully, I do not know enough about the case to have an opinion. I just know that it is incredibly high profile, and regardless of what the law says, if there are not charges there will be riots.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Standby....
> 
> Kentucky AG will announce Breonna Taylor decision this afternoon — Daily Mail


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 23, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 23, 2020)

3 counts of Wanton Endangerment. 

Detective indicted for wanton endangerment in Breonna Taylor’s death

Mayor of Louisville has also announced a curfew of 9PM to 630AM.


----------



## Kaldak (Sep 23, 2020)

Class D felony. 1 to 5 years imprisonment _if convicted.

_


> *Class D:*
> Class D felonies in Kentucky include possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, unauthorized use of a credit card involving a sum of money between $500 and $1,000, stalking in the first degree, possession of a controlled substance, and wanton endangerment in the first degree. Those with *multiple offenses of “lesser” crimes* might eventually face Class D felony charges, such as someone with four driving convictions for under the influence. People convicted of Class D felonies in Kentucky face *1 to 5 years’ imprisonment.*


_ 

Kentucky Felony Charges Attorney | KY Criminal Defense Lawyer_


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 23, 2020)

So it wasn’t a no knock warrant after all


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> 3 counts of Wanton Endangerment.
> 
> Detective indicted for wanton endangerment in Breonna Taylor’s death
> 
> Mayor of Louisville has also announced a curfew of 9PM to 630AM.



I didn't expect to see a homicide charge, and definently not endangerment.

I understand why they charged him with that though in regards to him firing shots into two other apartments.

It won't quell any outrage tonight though.



Jaknight said:


> So it wasn’t a no knock warrant after all



Everything I've seen said it was; IIRC, the police report claimed they announced themselves first and knocked, but idk about that; Anyone remember for sure?


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 23, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So it wasn’t a no knock warrant after all



The links above say it was?


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 23, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So it wasn’t a no knock warrant after all


Just because they knocked and announced, doesn't mean they were required to do so.  Everything I've seen says it was a no-knock.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 23, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Just because they knocked and announced, doesn't mean they were required to do so.  Everything I've seen says it was a no-knock.



To cross post a bit; just like people who don't believe Trump said something until there is video, a police report that say "we knocked and announced, but no body cams lolz" is gonna get some doubt from me.


----------



## Archangel27 (Sep 23, 2020)

@GOTWA, @Ooh-Rah; personally I really hate to see those kinds of situations.  Ultimately, whether the facts support a conviction should be the ultimate deciding factor on both whether there should be charges filed, and if yes, what charges should be filed.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 23, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> The links above say it was?


The AG said that the police knocked and announced their presence and it was corroborated by an independent witness


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I didn't expect to see a homicide charge, and definently not endangerment.
> 
> I understand why they charged him with that though in regards to him firing shots into two other apartments.


I wasn't expecting a homicide or similar charge either.  However, I thought they'd probably charge the officer for some sort of recklessness for the reason you mentioned.  As a result, not surprised by the wanton endangerment.  The charge seems to fit.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 23, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> The AG said that the police knocked and announced their presence and it was corroborated by an independent witness


Agreed.  To be clear though...just because they chose to do so, doesn't mean they were required to do so.  The warrant didn't require them to knock.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> To cross post a bit; just like people who don't believe Trump said something until there is video, a police report that say "we knocked and announced, but no body cams lolz" is gonna get some doubt from me.


All parties agreed they at least knocked.  That was corroborated by everyone involved.  The only question was did the police also announce themselves.

Police said they announced.

Shooter in the apartment with Talyor says he didn't hear announcement; could've been made just didn't hear it.

However, neighbor/witness supported police stating announcement also made.

Prosecutors determined witness was credible and knock/announce was done...even though not required to do so.

Shit.  I feel like I just may've mansplained that.  Sorry.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 23, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Just because they knocked and announced, doesn't mean they were required to do so.  Everything I've seen says it was a no-knock.



Just to be clear on this one. The Judge signed off on a "No Knock Warrant". It was however executed as a "Knock and Announce" Warrant.

It seems we're all getting on the same page lol.

______________

Ron DeSantis and the State of Florida not playing no games with rioters.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 23, 2020)

As I said, I don’t have a whole lot of interest in this case (Minneapolis is enough to deal with) but I did find it interesting how quickly the liberal media decided to put their spin on it.

I don’t think I’m going out on a limb  referring to Esquire magazine as “liberal media”


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 23, 2020)

Not being charged with what they wanted does not equal not being charged.


----------



## Archangel27 (Sep 23, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Not being charged with what they wanted does not equal not being charged.




As my civil procedure professor always said, "Justice is the outcome of a fair process." Running things through just because some loud people want it is mob rule.


----------



## policemedic (Sep 23, 2020)

I have stayed out of this thread, and the Defund the Police thread, because participating in either one could become problematic. 

However, I do feel it necessary to correct some misunderstandings vis a vis the Postal Police in order that everyone can sing from the same sheet of music.

First, while the Postal Police are a division of the Postal Inspection Service, Postal Police Officers are not Postal Inspectors.  Inspectors are 1811 Criminal Investigators; Postal Police Officers are 0083 Police Officers.  Inspectors are plainclothes investigators; postal cops are uniformed LEOs.  In this way, they function much like Secret Service Special Agents and the USSS Uniformed Division.  There are 1200 Postal inspectors; I'm unsure of the number of postal cops.



Locksteady said:


> *President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers* - the only ones who patrol off-site into dangerous areas after-hours to protect postal workers in cities like Chicago - last month on August 25th, 2020.



I would say he didn't remove anything from them.  He simply clarified their authority under the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act and brought their assignments back into alignment with the law.



ThunderHorse said:


> USPIS has roughly 1200 officers.  I don't know where you think they're "patrolling", because that isn't really their job, nor do they have real capacity to such a thing.



Correct.  See above re: 1200 officers.  Those 1200 Inspectors don't guard postal facilities; they do real police work. 

Postal Police Officers, despite being vested with (limited) federal arrest authority, only complete an 8 week foundational training program.  That is shorter than Army BCT.  This falls well short of most proper police academies, and is only acceptable because they are not expected to do police work.  They are expected to be guards with arrest authority.



AWP said:


> As a former subcontractor for the USPS, 1997-2000, they did not patrol ANYWHERE. Those are postal inspectors who were classified as LEO's. Those are the guys and gals who investigate postal fraud. Their physical security was limited to the security of any postal facility.



As you say, BINGO.  The only time I have seen a postal police officer off-site has been when they're getting coffee, or securing mail from a truck that was in an accident, blown up mailbox, etc.



Locksteady said:


> ...which I have shown is inaccurate and that they do have a 'real' capacity and authority to do it - or did.



The fact that some US Postal Police Officers were assigned to patrol--and I use that word very loosely--mail routes does not mean they had the authority to do it.  In plain words, they do not, and never did.  That much is clear from a full reading of the statute you correctly cited.

With all that said, I will now go back to lurking.  I'm not going to engage on the main subject of the thread.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> To cross post a bit; just like people who don't believe Trump said something until there is video, a police report that say "we knocked and announced, but no body cams lolz" is gonna get some doubt from me.



All things being equal, you don't think an official document signed by sworn peace officers is more meaningful than "anonymous sources?"


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 23, 2020)

Even in our little meaningless state of North Carolina there have been gatherings about this whole thing in Louisville.....


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 23, 2020)

policemedic said:


> However, I do feel it necessary to correct some misunderstandings vis a vis the Postal Police in order that everyone can sing from the same sheet of music.
> 
> First, while the Postal Police are a division of the Postal Inspection Service, Postal Police Officers are not Postal Inspectors.  Inspectors are 1811 Criminal Investigators; Postal Police Officers are 0083 Police Officers.  Inspectors are plainclothes investigators; postal cops are uniformed LEOs.  In this way, they function much like Secret Service Special Agents and the USSS Uniformed Division.  There are 1200 Postal inspectors; I'm unsure of the number of postal cops.


This is a useful insertion that should help prevent other posters from continuing to conflate PPOs with Postal Inspectors.





policemedic said:


> I would say he didn't remove anything from them.  He simply clarified their authority under the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act and brought their assignments back into alignment with the law.


I would say he did.  My corrected quote, which you didn't use, is the following:


Locksteady said:


> President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers *outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service*.


This is an accurate description of what happened, and constitutes a removal of these authorities as recognized by Congress in 18 USC 1306(c).





policemedic said:


> As you say, BINGO.  The only time I have seen a postal police officer off-site has been when they're getting coffee, or securing mail from a truck that was in an accident, blown up mailbox, etc.


PPOs not only conducted off-site patrols but increased those patrols within the last two decades, on admission from the actual authorities on the practice: PPOs and the Postal Service itself.

Dejoy removed this and other powers by restricting the law enforcement jurisdiction recognized in 18 USC 1306(c) to real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 23, 2020)

Escalation in Louisville. Unsurprising with the last videos of officers being fired upon over the last week or two.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308926980159664129


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 23, 2020)

No word on LMPD officer condition...FBI Louisville SWAT responded to assist....

Officer shot at Brook Street and Broadway


----------



## policemedic (Sep 23, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> 18 USC 1306(c)



Are you sure you're citing the right statute?  That one reads,  "Whoever knowingly violates section 5136A [1] of the Revised Statutes of the United States, section 9A of the Federal Reserve Act, or section 20 of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. "

In any case, the controlling statute is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act.  The jurisdiction of the Postal Police is clearly set out:


SEC. 1001. EMPLOYMENT OF POSTAL POLICE OFFICERS. Section 3061 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `(c)(1) The Postal Service may employ police officers for duty in connection with the protection of property owned or occupied by the Postal Service or under the charge and control of the Postal Service, and persons on that property, including duty in areas outside the property to the extent necessary to protect the property and persons on the property. `(2) With respect to such property, such officers shall have the power to-- `(A) enforce Federal laws and regulations for the protection of persons and property; `(B) carry firearms; and `(C) make arrests without a warrant for any offense against the Unites States committed in the presence of the officer or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony. `(3) With respect to such property, such officers may have, to such extent as the Postal Service may by regulations prescribe, the power to-- `(A) serve warrants and subpoenas issued under the authority of the United States; and `(B) conduct investigations, on and off the property in question, of offenses that may have been committed against property owned or occupied by the Postal Service or persons on the property. `(4)(A) As to such property, the Postmaster General may prescribe regulations necessary for the protection and administration of property owned or occupied by the Postal Service and persons on the property. The regulations may include reasonable penalties, within the limits prescribed in subparagraph (B), for violations of the regulations. The regulations shall be posted and remain posted in a conspicuous place on the property. `(B) A person violating a regulation prescribed under this subsection shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for not more than 30 days, or both.'.

Nowhere in the statute is there listed any hint of contemplation of general police power on the public streets, outside of an allowance that permits them to stand on the sidewalk/sit in a car outside the postal facility.



> Locksteady said:
> 
> 
> > President Trump's Postmaster General, Louis Dejoy, removed all law enforcement authority from Postal Police Officers *outside of real estate owned or leased by the US Postal Service*.
> ...



Not really, because they never had the authority to begin with.  The fact that they were doing it is irrelevant.  Even the Deputy Chief Postal Inspector admitted he didn't know if they had jurisdiction outside the post office, and that's quite telling.

Frankly, you don't want postal police officers acting as municipal cops.  That would be bad mojo.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 23, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> All things being equal, you don't think an official document signed by sworn peace officers is more meaningful than "anonymous sources?"



A few years ago I would have agreed, but after seeing incidents like The Baltimore Officer caught planting drugs on his own body cam, I tend not to trust the official reports right away in situations like this.

Neighbors, the victims, etc verifying it hold more weight for me.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 23, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> No word on LMPD officer condition...FBI Louisville SWAT responded to assist....
> 
> Officer shot at Brook Street and Broadway



looks like two officers were shot, one in surgery...but both are stable...one subject in custody


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 24, 2020)

What a crazy headline:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308845531586756610


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Are you sure you're citing the right statute?  That one reads,  "Whoever knowingly violates section 5136A [1] of the Revised Statutes of the United States, section 9A of the Federal Reserve Act, or section 20 of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. "


Thank you for checking - it indeed was a typo.  The correct code is 3061, which you were also considerate enough to include in your post, and I appreciate you doing that as well.





policemedic said:


> Not really, because they never had the authority to begin with. The fact that they were doing it is irrelevant.


I ran through several different interpretations of 'property', how it is used within the Postal Service, and how specifically it seems to be interpreted in the context of this part of the code.

Firstly, the Postal Police Officer position has since its inception in 1970 exercised law enforcement authority in regards to off-estate compromises to mail delivery and the safety of its employees.  This is ultimately irrelevant if the current statues don't explicitly support this statement, but feeds into part of the PPOA's argument in the case.  

Secondly, property certainly seems to include everything from real estate to mail trucks to the mail itself, and the wording on nearly every Postal Police description I can find includes some iteration of exercising arrest authorities during mail-in-transit or assaults on USPS personnel outside of USPS real estate.  This also apparently includes handbooks internal to USPIS that explicitly mention in-transit protection for mail and personnel as among the duties of PPOs.

The PPOA is arguing that Congress, being aware of these duties practiced by PPOs for decades, did not intend to restrict those practiced authorities when they wrote the law, and that this is reflected in the legislative history.  However, all I can find are changes from "buildings and areas owned or occupied by the Postal Service or under the charge and control of the Postal Service" to "property" replacing "buildings and areas".  PPOs meanwhile openly and even with citations exercised law enforcement authority off-property even while these initial pushes towards the current legislation were floating around in the 1990s.

I can believe that Congress was aware of what PPOs did in practice, and I can also definitely believe that these practices could have become such a widespread ongoing industry norm that an agency head suddenly halting it would be a shock.  However, I am now not convinced as I previously was that the language is pliant enough to hamstring DeJoy if he wants to limit PPO LE authority to the USPS real estate and outside areas only in support of the real estate and its personnel only.  

This is probably one of the weakest parts of their suit.

@compforce, consider that a long-winded way of saying I have come to agree with you on this point. 





policemedic said:


> The fact that they were doing it is irrelevant.


Assuming the above holds, agreed.





policemedic said:


> Even the Deputy Chief Postal Inspector admitted he didn't know if they had jurisdiction outside the post office, and that's quite telling.


This beautifully illustrates the disparity in the way that different leaders within the agency understand the range of authority given to PPOs.  

According the PPOA, a head of Postal Police Officers apparently said during court in 2016 to “Think of them as a fully functioning police department whose responsibilities are security for postal facilities, protection of postal employees, protection of the mail in transit, preventing the use of mails for illegitimate purposes, mailing child pornography, mailing drugs through the mail.” 

If anything, DeJoy's timely decision to enforce the law by halting afterhours mail transit and personnel protections ahead of a mail-in-ballot-heavy voting season is a shrewd but ostensibly legally supported move.



policemedic said:


> Frankly, you don't want postal police officers acting as municipal cops.  That would be bad mojo.


Given that they've apparently been exercising law enforcement powers outside of USPS real estate for 50 years now, I think it's safe to say that that mojo is not a thing in practice, considering how sparingly that multiple USPS-adjacent people on this very thread have even encountered them to the point of openly doubting they even practiced in that capacity.

I also think if Congress decided to formally recognize in law what they've apparently been doing for 50 years that it wouldn't be unfeasible to add extremely restrictive language to that to keep their powers from becoming an ongoing municipal jurisdiction problem - assuming they even grow the ranks to make that a possibility.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

^ That should have been a cite to @policemedic - apologies, @compforce!


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309090541850832904


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 24, 2020)

My fair town had some rowdiness last night:

At least 40 businesses vandalized during Breonna Taylor protests in Durham :: WRAL.com

The "news article" had a cringe-worthy comment:  "Taylor, an emergency medical worker, was shot in March multiple times by white officers who entered her home during a narcotics investigation."  (She had not been in EMS since 2017, plus glossing over key details about the event).

Disclaimer:  Broken record time: people do not care about facts or truth; only what fits their narrative.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 24, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> She had not been in EMS since 2017



I know she was an an ER technician; I know where I'm at that requires maintaining at minimum EMT-B with IV cert.

I'd still probably call her an EMT/EMS worker for the sake of simplicity.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I know she was an an ER technician; I know where I'm at that requires maintaining at minimum EMT-B with IV cert.
> 
> I'd still probably call her an EMT/EMS worker for the sake of simplicity.



I get your point, and though I kinda sorta agree, the omission of "former" ('emergency medical worker') makes wonder at what point do titles and jobs mean anything in accurate reporting (types the Navy officer....though I have been out for years....)...


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 24, 2020)

^She was a fuckin' crack dealers bitch who held on to his stash....


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 24, 2020)

Read it and weep.

Law Enforcement Today


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 24, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Read it and weep.
> 
> Law Enforcement Today



Yeah, that report is intense.  But it doesn't matter...she was just some innocent ER Tech who's never sold drugs or been surveilled for anything worse.  Just keep reading the FAKE NEWS.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 24, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^She was a fuckin' crack dealers bitch who held on to his stash....


Ya know...we can (and do) use pretty much any language we want here, but referring to someone who was killed the way she was, and from many reliable accounts someone who really was trying to better herself as, “_a fuckin' crack dealers bitch who held on to his stash....”_

I don’t know man. It just seems to inaccurately sum up a significantly more complicated story.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 24, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Read it and weep.
> 
> Law Enforcement Today


Whichever dipshit wrote this article can go fuck themselves. Breonna Taylor didn’t deserve to get killed.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 24, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Whichever dipshit wrote this article can go fuck themselves. Breonna Taylor didn’t deserve to get killed.


I don't see any issues with the way the article was written.  It's simply a synopsis of the report that many of us here saw a few weeks ago.

No one is saying she deserved to die; she didn't.  However, the truth also isn't what has been pushed and continues to be stated by the left and many in the mainstream media. 

Taylor was the unfortunate victim of her own circumstances; none of which, by the way, has nothing to do with the color of her skin.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 24, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Whichever dipshit wrote this article can go fuck themselves. Breonna Taylor didn’t deserve to get killed.


Did the cop deserve to get shot?


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Taylor was the unfortunate victim of her own circumstances; none of which, by the way, has nothing to do with the color of her skin.


She was the unfortunate victim of careless police behavior, at the very least, to which the color of her skin has in no way been ruled out as a contributing factor.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> She was the unfortunate victim of careless police behavior, at the very least, to which the color of her skin has in no way been ruled out as a contributing factor.



Are you suggesting they should have done the no-knock instead, or shoot the person that was shooting at them?


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> She was the unfortunate victim of careless police behavior, at the very least, to which the color of her skin has in no way been ruled out as a contributing factor.


You're certainly entitled to that view but I find it misguided and it doesn't align with the facts.

As an aside, one thing I have not seen related to the case, and I don't know if it was released, but who's rounds killed Taylor?  Where did it come from specifically? Was there more than one fatal injury? I'd be curious to know this.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 24, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Did the cop deserve to get shot?


No he didn’t


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> She was the unfortunate victim of careless police behavior, at the very least, to which the color of her skin has in no way been ruled out as a contributing factor.


Are you saying she may have been shot cause she was black? That maybe true or it could have been an unfortunate circumstance due to her being associated with a drug dealer but who knows


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> You're certainly entitled to that view but I find it misguided and it doesn't align with the facts.


You can find it misguided, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't align with the facts.  It means other people have different interpretations from you and the grand jury about whether or not three officers firing 30+ rounds into a house from multiple directions in response to one shot fired constituted a reckless response.

The court neither addressed nor established whether or not race as a contributing factor, so it is unwarranted to claim that it wasn't and then assert it as a determined fact.





Blizzard said:


> As an aside, one thing I have not seen related to the case, and I don't know if it was released, but who's rounds killed Taylor?  Where did it come from specifically? Was there more than one fatal injury? I'd be curious to know this.


Kentucky AG confirmed that Detected Cosgrove fired the killing shot.


> Mr Cameron said a ballistics report had found that six bullets had struck Ms Taylor, but only one had been fatal. That analysis concluded that Detective Myles Cosgrove had fired the shot that killed Ms Taylor.



Breonna Taylor lawyer slams 'devilish' proceedings


----------



## AWP (Sep 24, 2020)

I see this thread is dipping its toe into the "Getting closer to earning some points" end of the pool...


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> You can find it misguided, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't align with the facts.  It means other people have different interpretations from you and the grand jury about whether or not three officers firing 30+ rounds into a house from multiple directions in response to one shot fired constituted a reckless response.
> 
> The court neither addressed nor established whether or not race as a contributing factor, so it is unwarranted to claim that it wasn't and then assert it as a determined fact.Kentucky AG confirmed that Detected Cosgrove fired the killing shot.
> 
> ...


Thing is the cops didn’t just roll up and say hey let’s go into that house and start a gun fight and to try to bring race into it turns it into the festival we see now


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Are you saying she may have been shot cause she was black?


I'm saying it, to my awareness, was never ruled out as a contributing factor.  This was in response to Blizzard's (as yet) unsubstantiated positive claim that color had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I'm saying it, to my awareness, was never ruled out as a contributing factor.  This was in response to Blizzard's (as yet) unsubstantiated positive claim that color had nothing to do with it.


Do you believe it was a factor? If so why I’m interested to know


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> I see this thread is dipping its toe into the "Getting closer to earning some points" end of the pool...


Top of the page.

Everybody chill and bit and back off on the rhetoric.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Do you believe it was a factor? If so why I’m interested to know


It's hard to tell.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> It's hard to tell.


How so? What makes you think it could be?


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> How so? What makes you think it could be?


The same logic that allows you to consider any other factor, such as awareness of involvement with drug dealers, a possible contributor to their response.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 24, 2020)

^ Sorry, I believe I misspoke on your meaning,  as you mentioned the drug dealer association more as the factor that caused her to be where she was, rather than a psychological factor influencing their response.

In short, @Jaknight, evidence is only necessary to rule out the possibility - not to allow for it.


----------



## Kaldak (Sep 24, 2020)

@Locksteady I would really appreciate you adding supporting articles from newsworthy sources in these threads going forward.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 24, 2020)

Hey guys, a pleasure to be here. 

@Locksteady you're an unvetted member of the board. You've made a habit of turning up the temperature to every conversation you're in; stop it. I am telling you now. As far as I am concerned, on this board, you're a child with an email. Prove me wrong or move along. Until then, no one has any reason to give credence to your opinions. If you'd like, go to the comments section of Fox News or CNN, you can be anonymous there too. _In this board, unless you carry a tag, you only carry the smallest possible amount of credibility. _

Oh, by the way, you can ignore members of the staff or anyone that doesn't agree with your opinions, like @R.Caerbannog has pointed out before. I encourage you all to do this. 

TO THE OTHER MEMBERS, PLEASE REMEMBER AND INTERNALIZE THIS FACT. You can ignore @Locksteady or @R.Caerbannog or me or anyone you want. You don't need to play along with a member that is here to antagonize. You can ignore them. If you remember, from the last time we did this whole dance in 2016- YOU ARENT GOING TO CHANGE ANYONE'S MIND EITHER WAY. 

Everyone else- fucking knock it off. How many times does the staff need to tell you? Don't be emotional. This is a private site where you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed on. Lots of you are active military members. More of you are veterans. If you can't respond with the smallest modicum of respect for people, we don't want you here. 

I don't speak for the rest of the staff, but y'all are fucking out of line.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 25, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> @Locksteady I would really appreciate you adding supporting articles from newsworthy sources in these threads going forward.


I'll make more of an effort to do that.





amlove21 said:


> @Locksteady you're an unvetted member of the board. You've made a habit of turning up the temperature to every conversation you're in; stop it.


Copy that.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2020)

Without wading through links and articles, can someone tell me who fired the first shot?

I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed.  If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense.  Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night.  It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.

If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back.  Even so, you are accountable for every round.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 25, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Without wading through links and articles, can someone tell me who fired the first shot?
> 
> I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed.  If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense.  Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night.  It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.
> 
> If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back.  Even so, you are accountable for every round.


The police (in plain clothes) only began shooting after Walker (the boyfriend) fired a shot after they forcibly came through the front door.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Without wading through links and articles, can someone tell me who fired the first shot?
> 
> I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed.  If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense.  Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night.  It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.
> 
> If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back.  Even so, you are accountable for every round.



Boyfriend shot first. Said he heard banging on the door yelled for them to identify themselves (which he said he never heard), so he fired a shot when they kicked down the door.

Quite honestly, I'd have reacted the same way in this situation if someone busted my door down at 0030.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Boyfriend shot first. Said he heard banging on the door yelled for them to identify themselves (which he said he never heard), so he fired a shot when they kicked down the door.
> 
> Quite honestly, I'd have reacted the same way in this situation if someone busted my door down at 0030.



Whether they did/didn't (announce), I agree: if I didn't hear it, and someone came into my house, they are getting lit up.  I understand the necessity of no-knocks (intended or 'assumed') but the results can be awful.


----------



## AWP (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Boyfriend shot first. Said he heard banging on the door yelled for them to identify themselves (which he said he never heard), so he fired a shot when they kicked down the door.
> 
> Quite honestly, I'd have reacted the same way in this situation if someone busted my door down at 0030.



Wait, the boyfriend fired first and the cops returned fire? How can anyone make a case this is a race-based anything? You shoot at me, I shoot at you, and everything about you is irrelevant. Race, sex, age...none of that matters.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 25, 2020)

How many cops were on this warrant? Just the three or were there more?


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> Wait, the boyfriend fired first and the cops returned fire? How can anyone make a case this is a race-based anything? You shoot at me, I shoot at you, and everything about you is irrelevant. Race, sex, age...none of that matters.



Most of that arguement came from the fact that the boyfriend was facing charges, and the belief that a white person would likely have been let off without the public outcry that eventually got charges against him dropped.



Devildoc said:


> Whether they did/didn't (announce), I agree: if I didn't hear it, and someone came into my house, they are getting lit up.  I understand the necessity of no-knocks (intended or 'assumed') but the results can be awful.



From what I saw her place was intended to be a "soft target"; no kids, pets, or suspected weapons.

My question is, if you expect almost no resistance, what purpose does barging in during the middle of the night do except make it more dangerous for everyone?


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> From what I saw her place was intended to be a "soft target"; no kids, pets, or suspected weapons.
> 
> My question is, if you expect almost no resistance, what purpose does barging in during the middle of the night do except make it more dangerous for everyone?



I have had this convo so often, especially with SWAT.  I would ask, why not just take them down when they leave the house, walking to the car?  I'd get a million answers, few were valid, most just supported kicking in the door.  Although I was a card-carrying LE-certified member of the tac team (I had to be LE-cert, even as the medic) and was far back in the stack, I not too-fondly recall the days of the 'fatal funnel' in Iraq.  I hated executing warrants and raids.

As far as "intended to be a 'soft target'", my questions revolve around intel and planning.  I do not know what they did or did not do, and I hate to armchair QB, but in my limited knowledge of this event, there were a lot of holes in the Swiss cheese that aligned to allow this outcome.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 25, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Without wading through links and articles, can someone tell me who fired the first shot?
> 
> I agree, NO one 'deserved' to be killed.  If the LEO fired the first shot, it is easy to believe the guy shot back in self-defense.  Announce or no-announce, busting in scares the hell out of the occupants, especially in the middle of the night.  It's been a while since I've been on a stack, but I do watch Chicago PD.
> 
> If the guy shot first, then LE was right to shoot back.  Even so, you are accountable for every round.


Not only this but keep in mind, the boyfriend actually landed a round when he fired firat.  The wounded officer, who was hit in the femoral artery, returned fire as he retreated out the door.  Other officers understandably returned fire as well.

The only officer I see as an issue in returning fire was Hankison. Firing blindly into the residence was not cool...and that's why he was fired.

As was stated numerous times, a shitty situation all around.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Most of that arguement came from the fact that the boyfriend was facing charges, and the belief that a white person would likely have been let off without the public outcry that eventually got charges against him dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not a fan of no-knock warrents or O'dark thirty entries.


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 25, 2020)

I wonder if she had actually stayed in her room like the media had portrayed it instead of going out there with her  bf would she have lived? Also Wasn’t that unwise for her to come out as well seeing as she had no gun and would be useless if they started shooting


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 25, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> How many cops were on this warrant? Just the three or were there more?


I believe it was four.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I believe it was four.


Agreed.

There were simultaneous warrants being executed by other officers at a few other related locations.


----------



## 757 (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> My question is, if you expect almost no resistance, what purpose does barging in during the middle of the night do except make it more dangerous for everyone?



Exactly. Albeit without knowing all the details of the case, this situation kind of reminds me of the Waco incident (in Wako they could have grabbed the dude when he ran every morning at the same time/place). It's hard for me to imagine that breaking down the door, armed to the teeth, in the middle of the night, knowing that the party involved is dangerous, is the best solution to the problem.

To be fair, I am biased in the sense that I dislike no-knock warrants. If somebody breaks into my home, there is a VERY good chance somebody is going to catch a bullet (probably at least me since I haven't been to the range in a hot minute XD). Either way, gotta try and protect the family.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2020)

Both in the platoon and in the tactical team we joked that the guy with the least to lose needed to be the first through the door.  It was a macabre sense of humor, but rooted in some truth.  Again, intellectually I understand the points for no-knocks; in practice, however, they are often bad ju-ju...


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 25, 2020)

757 said:


> To be fair, I am biased in the sense that I dislike no-knock warrants. If somebody breaks into my home, there is a VERY good chance somebody is going to catch a bullet (probably at least me since I haven't been to the range in a hot minute XD). Either way, gotta try and protect the family.


@Devildoc said something similar in an earlier post and I agree as well.  The no-knock carries even a higher degree of risk; there really is zero room for error. You better be at the right house, etc. The fact is you bust down my door in the middle of the night, it's gonna get ugly, especially since I don't have any reason or expectation for the police or anyone else to legitimately do this. That's a problem.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 25, 2020)

This is pretty good. A lot of misinformation out there


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 25, 2020)

I spent a lot of time reading the leaked county jail phone conversations between the group being investigated and the report on the evidence that lead to the raid.

For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you either of you think selling crack is a legitimate way to make a living.

Go read up on the investigation and the phone conversations yourselves. She had $8k in cash from boyfriend crack dealer somewhere in the house or car. That's a lot of fucked up futures for a lot of small children who's parents are hopelessly addicted to crack... Turning her life around...race baiting...I'm not gonna hear it...


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you either of you think selling crack is a legitimate way to make a living.



Bruh if you're saying I can just kick down your door in the middle of the night and you wont react to it, how about you just mail me some of your valuables right now and save me the trip?



BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> She had $8k in cash from boyfriend crack dealer somewhere in the house or car.



Can I get a citation please?


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 25, 2020)

If you are involved in selling drugs, being the support network for selling drugs, don't play the victim card when the police execute a search warrant on your residence...no knock or knock warrant....bad things can happen....


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Can I get a citation please?


Breonna Taylor Summary-Redacted1

Posting from my phone so I can't say for certain but It looks to be page 31 of the report.  Text is bolded around 1307.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 25, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I spent a lot of time reading the leaked county jail phone conversations between the group being investigated and the report on the evidence that lead to the raid.
> 
> For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you either of you think selling crack is a legitimate way to make a living.
> 
> Go read up on the investigation and the phone conversations yourselves. She had $8k in cash from boyfriend crack dealer somewhere in the house or car. That's a lot of fucked up futures for a lot of small children who's parents are hopelessly addicted to crack... Turning her life around...race baiting...I'm not gonna hear it...





Kraut783 said:


> If you are involved in selling drugs, being the support network for selling drugs, don't play the victim card when the police execute a search warrant on your residence...no knock or knock warrant....bad things can happen....


As someone who grew up in a neighborhood plagued by drug dealing idiots, I want to thank you for telling it like it is. I don't think people realize the secondary and tertiary effects these people have on the community and people within.

Growing up we had a drug queenpin (?), from LA, who used our neighborhood as a distribution center. It went on for years. She and her husband/brothers would set up drops in the lot us neighborhood kids played in. I distinctly remember the fancy cars of the affluent townies who would drop by to score their fix. The neighborhood was elated when they were finally raided and carted off.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 25, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Bruh if you're saying I can just kick down your door in the middle of the night and you wont react to it, how about you just mail me some of your valuables right now and save me the trip?
> 
> 
> 
> Can I get a citation please?



I'm not part of a crack dealing ring so....I guess the point is lost on you.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 25, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I'm not part of a crack dealing ring so....I guess the point is lost on you.



A few months back I'd write a long winded and immature post, now all I have is just, really?


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I'm not part of a crack dealing ring so....I guess the point is lost on you.



Neither was the guy who shot the officer. Let's highlight your comment again 



BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> For those of you who would shoot anything coming in your house unannounced at 0' dark 30, I have no sympathy for you



The whole bit about "selling crack" isn't what I'm talking about; you said you have no sympathy for someone defending their home.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 25, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I'm not part of a crack dealing ring so....I guess the point is lost on you.


You’ve been asked to tone it down multiple times.

Consider this a formal warning.

Points assessed.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 25, 2020)

No one is saying any of us would not engage anyone breaking into our house, and protect ourselves and family...this is not about that.

This is about a legal search warrant on a drug house that happen to go bad....the police did not hit the "wrong" address, but a legitimate target of the investigation.

I have done many no knock and knock and announce SW's, especially in the violent crack cocaine days.....there are reasons there are no knocks, but to be honest, hitting a house at zero dark thirty....no matter if it is a knock and announce...no one is up and it is a surprise every time.

Most times...there are no issues and people go to jail, sometimes....it goes bad and someone goes to the morgue. That is part of the J O B and part of being involved in the drug trade.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 25, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Agreed.
> 
> There were simultaneous warrants being executed by other officers at a few other related locations.


Just to correct my previous response.  Looks like there were only 3 officers at Taylor's address.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 26, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Neither was the guy who shot the officer. Let's highlight your comment again
> 
> 
> 
> The whole bit about "selling crack" isn't what I'm talking about; you said you have no sympathy for someone defending their home.



Yes, he in fact was and he was under surveillance, which is why the police were there. Read the report, this has nothing to do with someone bdefending their home. 

With the snark directed at me, I'm not sure I could have been any more respectful. Read the police report that's out there.


----------



## AWP (Sep 26, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Neither was the guy who shot the officer. *Let's highlight your comment again*



You could have made your point without coming across as condescending.

"Neither was the guy who shot the officer. Earlier, you stated..."
---
"Neither was the guy who shot the officer."
(Inserts earlier quoted section)
(Responds accordingly)
---
"Neither was the guy who shot the officer. Reading your earlier post..."


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 26, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Yes, he in fact was and he was under surveillance, which is why the police were there. Read the report, this has nothing to do with someone bdefending their home.
> 
> With the snark directed at me, I'm not sure I could have been any more respectful. Read the police report that's out there.



I'm not seeing Kenneth Walker in that report, other than when people are discussing the shooting itself; I do see Adrian Walker mentioned, but that's a different person. They aren't related either.






AWP said:


> You could have made your point without coming across as condescending.
> 
> "Neither was the guy who shot the officer. Earlier, you stated..."
> ---
> ...



Got it; I'll watch the wording.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 26, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Bruh if* you're saying I can just kick down your door in the middle of the night* and you wont react to it, *how about you just mail me some of your valuables right now and save me the trip*?


Just wanted to highlight this. And this.


Using sophism to normalize the behavior of someone in the drug trade as that of a law abiding citizen is rather obtuse. Boggles my mind that people are actively trying to normalize deviancy, which can covertly or overtly translate into support for a festering socialist insurgency. 

As for kicking down doors... I didn't know you were infantry.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Just wanted to highlight this. And this.
> View attachment 35906
> 
> Using sophism to normalize the behavior of someone in the drug trade as that of a law abiding citizen is rather obtuse. Boggles my mind that people are actively trying to normalize deviancy, which can covertly or overtly translate into support for a festering socialist insurgency.


----------



## SaintKP (Sep 26, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog  , @Cookie_  can correct me if I'm wrong but he isn't condoning or trying to _"normalize the behavior of someone in the drug trade as that of a law abiding citizen"_. He is attacking the point that was raised by @BlackSmokeRisinG  in regards to defending your home(same goes for you @BlackSmokeRisinG , correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point).

Clearly there's a divide in regards to how each of us think of or expect criminals or those around criminal activity should be treated. I don't see how that can _"covertly or overtly translate into support for a festering socialist insurgency."_.

If anything I feel as if that's as you say obtuse and I'd go so far as a simple way of looking at things.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Just wanted to highlight this. And this.
> View attachment 35906
> 
> Using sophism to normalize the behavior of someone in the drug trade as that of a law abiding citizen is rather obtuse. Boggles my mind that people are actively trying to normalize deviancy, which can covertly or overtly translate into support for a festering socialist insurgency.
> ...



We've been talking about Kenneth Walker, ya know, the guy not listed on that sheet?

I'm pretty libertarian when it comes to drugs; most every country that has decriminalized them have seen reductions in use and the associated crimes. 
That doesn't mean that I'm trying to argue the criminal element is ok; I'm not.

I have nothing for your deviancy sentence, because I don't even understand what you're getting at.

You'd be amazed who they train to kick in doors during sea-biscuits, and even more amazed that some of those guys actually get to do it on deployment.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 26, 2020)

ALL STOP!  This has been beaten to death.  Everyone take a break.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2020)

My man @RackMaster  hit the nail on the head. 

I'll do you all one better, the thread is locked. The staff is going to chat about whether we need it at all; it's not like we stay on topic in these threads anyway. I am going to suggest we combine all this dumb shit into a super thread where you all can get together and talk out the ideas of America's social fabric, politics, election, and social issues. 

More to follow.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> The staff is going to chat about whether we need it at all; it's not like we stay on topic in these threads anyway. I am going to suggest we combine all this dumb shit into a super thread where you all can get together and talk out the ideas of America's social fabric, politics, election, and social issues.




September 27, 2020

This is your official National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion thread. It is a merge of both.

Anything and everything "social" related should go into this thread. If a new thread Social related is started, there is a VERY good chance it will be merged into this thread without notice or fanfare.

- staff


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 29, 2020)

A juror from the Taylor case has filed a motion to have all the grand jury proceedings released, because they argued that the AG is misrepresenting the case in order to use the jurors as a shield.

The juror claims they were never given the option of indicting the other two officers, and never given the option to indict for homicide at all.

You think riots are bad now because people because think the system protects cops? 
Imagine how bad it will be these documents show the AG was "lying".

Breonna Taylor case grand juror: We weren’t given the option of indicting the two cops who shot her


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 29, 2020)

Not surprising at all.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2020)

So the AG took to the grand jury what his team put together as a case that they looked at being able to successfully prosecute, and said grand jury indicted. 

Indicting people just to indict them because it is politically expedient is dummer than shit.  Also, expect KY to go hard red in November when it comes to who actually shows up to the polls.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A juror from the Taylor case has filed a motion to have all the grand jury proceedings released, because they argued that the AG is misrepresenting the case in order to use the jurors as a shield.
> 
> The juror claims they were never given the option of indicting the other two officers, and never given the option to indict for homicide at all.
> 
> ...


Let's be honest, there is no interest in the truth or justice. What they really want is a public lynching.  Because short of that, there doesn't appear to be any type of solution for many people still crying over this tragedy would recognize. Justice is being served but reason has gone AWOL.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So the AG took to the grand jury what his team put together as a case that they looked at being able to successfully prosecute, and said grand jury indicted.
> 
> Indicting people just to indict them because it is politically expedient is dummer than shit.  Also, expect KY to go hard red in November when it comes to who actually shows up to the polls.



Yea, but does that actually matter to anyone?

For a lot of people unfamiliar with the system, not giving the jury the chance to make that decision is the same thing as the AG protecting the officers.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Let's be honest, there is no interest in the truth or justice. What they really want is a public lynching.  Because short of that, there doesn't appear to be any type of solution for many people still crying over this tragedy; reason has gone AWOL.



I think a lot of people are distrustful of a system that seems to protect it's own, even more so when the system is functionally secretive.

I dont think releasing the proceedings will change anyone's mind one way or another unless something truly outrageous happened, but it will add fuel to the fire.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea, but does that actually matter to anyone?
> 
> For a lot of people unfamiliar with the system, not giving the jury the chance to make that decision is the same thing as the AG protecting the officers.


I guess, but the Commonwealth's Attorney (DA) passed this buck to higher.  Then the AG's staff poured over the evidence to determine if any crime was committed and then they proceeded with a grand jury.  I understand that we don't have to use grand juries to indict someone.  But they are a good tool.  Giving the grand jury the chance to do something just because maybe that random person on the grand jury wants it, isn't how the system works. 

And I agree with @Blizzard this isn't about Justice, it's about a public lynching.

ETA: As I mentioned below, Kentucky is a grand jury state for Felonies.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 29, 2020)

No Grand Juries where you are? Here, all felonies have to be indicted.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> No Grand Juries where you are? Here, all felonies have to be indicted.


All federal prosecutions require a grand jury to indict.  All states have a grand jury system, but only about half require a grand jury to gain indictments.

Looks like Kentucky is a grand jury system for all felony indictments.

@Kraut783 specifically for Arizona, prosecutors can indict suspects without going to the grand jury, but the tool is there.


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 29, 2020)

Gotcha,   here there is no indictment prior to arrest (state side)...either probable cause or warrant arrest. Once the subject has been arrested, the case (felony) is filed and goes through the grand jury process.


----------



## medicchick (Sep 29, 2020)

The grand jury I was on we had the option to recommend charges based on the evidence we were given, which yes is all one sided. I have a feeling most don't know how they work in the general public.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Sep 29, 2020)

medicchick said:


> The grand jury I was on we had the option to recommend charges based on the evidence we were given, which yes is all one sided. I have a feeling most don't know how they work in the general public.



The average person doesn't have a fucking clue with regards to how the entire legal process works, nevermind how law enforcement works, nevermind adult responsibilities in general outside of "mcdonalds, shitter, fornicate, repeat"


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Sep 30, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> The average person doesn't have a fucking clue with regards to how the entire legal process works, nevermind how law enforcement works, nevermind adult responsibilities in general outside of "mcdonalds, shitter, fornicate, repeat"


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 30, 2020)

- friendly reminder to all...keep it friendly -


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 1, 2020)

Oof.. Stuff like this is a bit inconvenient for my friends on the left.

Proud Boys, Black Lives Matter leaders hold joint conference: We ‘denounce White supremacy’


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 1, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Oof.. Stuff like this is a bit inconvenient for my friends on the left.
> 
> Proud Boys, Black Lives Matter leaders hold joint conference: We ‘denounce White supremacy’


There is nothing at all inconvenient for people on the left about leaders of a group accused of being white supremacists linking up with Black Lives Matter representatives to soundly and unequivocally denounce white supremacy.

In fact, if sincere it represents either an outspoken correction of a false accusation or an phenomenal development in the group ideology, and pulls one more group away from the umbrella of white supremacist organizations.

If there is any truth in the claim, then this is a great day for the left.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 1, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> There is nothing at all inconvenient for people on the left about leaders of a group accused of being white supremacists linking up with Black Lives Matter representatives to soundly and unequivocally denounce white supremacy.
> 
> In fact, if sincere it represents either *an outspoken correction of a false accusation or an phenomenal development in the group ideology*, and pulls one more group away from the umbrella of white supremacist organizations.
> 
> If there is any truth in the claim, then this is a great day for the left.



Obviously the former over the latter since it's a pretty diverse group of guys.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 1, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Obviously the former over the latter since it's a pretty diverse group of guys.


I'm not well-versed enough in the group itself to sort the rhetoric and media slant from the group's beliefs in practice (racial inclusion alone in no way precludes white supremacist ideology from being a central tenet of a group), which is why I introduced both possibilities.

I see either result as a positive development.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 1, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I'm not well-versed enough in the group itself to sort the rhetoric and media slant from the group's beliefs in practice (racial inclusion alone in no way precludes white supremacist ideology from being a central tenet of a group), which is why I introduced both possibilities.
> 
> I see either result as a positive development.



Fair enough. I have some good friends that are in it. Like any group with a bunch of younger and overly eager individuals, they will get in trouble, but it always generally directly against ANTIFA. The entire organization is a by-product of black bloc groups like ANTIFA and is currently "led" by a Cuban-American.

That being said.. Having spent a lot of time in Miami, there is plenty of racial animosity between hispanics/latinos and blacks, but this isn't really a thing for Proud Boys from what I've seen.


ETA: The POTUS did clarify today that he condemns all white supremacists, and also the Proud Boys, but I don't see this amounting to much and more likely to be placating. The national protests can't get much more violent.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The national protests can't get much more violent.


As much as I hope this is as far as it goes, this is probably not the year to be ruling that out.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Fair enough. I have some good friends that are in it. Like any group with a bunch of younger and overly eager individuals, they will get in trouble, but it always generally directly against ANTIFA. The entire organization is a by-product of black bloc groups like ANTIFA and is currently "led" by a Cuban-American.
> 
> That being said.. Having spent a lot of time in Miami, there is plenty of racial animosity between hispanics/latinos and blacks, but this isn't really a thing for Proud Boys from what I've seen.
> 
> ...


I will say when the group started under Gavin, it flirted much more with those who held supremacists beliefs than it does now. I think it was right around the Unit the Right really that the Proud Boys started pushing away from that and Gavin gave control of the group to Tarrio.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 2, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I will say when the group started under Gavin, it flirted much more with those who held supremacists beliefs than it does now. I think it was right around the Unit the Right really that the Proud Boys started pushing away from that and Gavin gave control of the group to Tarrio.



And Gavin was pretty adamant in none of the Proud Boys going to Charlottesville..


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 2, 2020)

I don't know where the George Floyd thread went, so I'll post this here:
Newly released video shows officer charged in George Floyd’s death helping man in wheelchair

This is interesting to me, in that, as someone here said previously, to paraphrase, "I don't care what happened before, I only care what took place during the incident".  Early evidence showing Floyd putting drugs in his mouth during a 2019 traffic stop was not allowed under a similar premise, but this will be allowed?! For all practical purposes, this is the same type of situation.  Interesting one was allowed and another wasn't.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't know where the George Floyd thread went, so I'll post this here:


Did you happen to read the title of this thread, and then look at page 1 as it directs?


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 2, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Did you happen to read the title of this thread, and then look at page 1 as it directs?


Yep...doesn't mention anything about George Floyd or his trial specifically. Do you see them the same topic as national protests and disband the cops? I don't.  While his case may've been a catalyst for those things, the trial details certainly is a separate topic.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yep...doesn't mention anything about George Floyd or his trial specifically. Do you see them the same topic as national protests and disband the cops? I don't. While his case may've been a catalyst for those things, the trial details certainly is a separate topic.


Read the first page again.

And don’t get into a debate about semantics with me or any of the staff for that matter on this topic.

Patience level = zero


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 2, 2020)

So typically in states that require a grand jury to indict felonies, an empaneled grand jury will be given evidence for multiple cases throughout the day for indictments. Usually between 15-20 and upwards of 40 sometimes in a day. The rates for indictments in this system is very high. The standard to indict with a grand jury is much lower than for a jury to convict.  The standard for indictments is Probable Cause, which is the lowest standard in judicial practice for criminal cases. 

In Civil cases you have four different standards.

My first point is that getting an indictment is the lowest for criminal standards of proof.  Now to my second point, the grand jury recordings for the Breonna Taylor case are over 20 hours long.  Usually Grand Juries have left and right limits, but unlike juries they are not bound by them.  A jury cannot ask questions.  Grand juries can and in effect can expand the scope for which charges can be place and indictments granted. 

Breonna Taylor grand jury audio: Officers testified they knocked before entering

This is all important because the Commonwealth's Attorney and now the AG of Kentucky doesn't have the ability to indict someone on his own, Kentucky is a grand jury state, so the legal team on this case had intentions to take this to trial, otherwise there would be no grand jury.  Which is different from Arizona (my location), we're not a grand jury state, therefore you don't need to use a grand jury to indict.  Effectively if a Grand Jury chose not to indict in Arizona that could be considered a political shield tactic by the prosecution.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 2, 2020)

In Texas, all police shootings go through a county grand jury after an investigation is completed, either for murder or aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The GJ gets a brief of the case/investigation...the Grand Jury members can ask questions of the testifying witnesses or prosecutor presenting the case. The GJ then decides to true bill (indict) or no-bill (not indict).

The case cannot go back to the GJ indictment process , unless new evidence is found and presented.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 3, 2020)

This is really bad rhetoric.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=359204811941979


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is really bad rhetoric.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Vanished.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 3, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Vanished.


Looks like I found another one for now, 3 hour stream of the NFAC in Lafayette, Louisiana.

"All Black "NFAC" Militia gathers in Lafayette, Louisiana"

Their leader starts talking at 1:15.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2020)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis....

As Carjackings Climb In Minneapolis, Ages Of Offenders Are Dropping

_Then Monday morning, three boys no older than 16 years old died after crashing in a car near that police say was carjacked a day earlier.

Minneapolis police typically label the crimes as auto thefts or robberies in their reports, but a spokesman tells WCCO carjackings have happened so much this year that they’ll now categorize them as a “carjacking” in their reports to better track them.
_


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 6, 2020)

So, how do we remove civil liability protections from prosecutors?

This is stupid. 

St. Louis couple indicted for waving guns at protesters

The DA wanted to make an example out of the couple by the way and get them to accept a plea deal.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 6, 2020)

Thought the state AG was going to squash that?


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Oct 6, 2020)

Shame in my opinion. How do you handle a raging group in front of your house? Brownies???


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 7, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Shame in my opinion. How do you handle a raging group in front of your house? Brownies???


Yes.  

To a point. 

Was there any precedent to believe that the group (raging?) was going to attempt to enter their home on camera and in the middle of the afternoon to cause them harm?  

No.

Those two with their buffoonish posing did nothing but cause undue tension; especially the way she kept sweeping the crowd.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Yes.
> 
> To a point.
> 
> ...



Don't really need to rehash this one, as I've a few posts on this.  Under Missouri's castle doctrine your lawn falls under it and there is also no duty to retreat. 

So then we add to the numerous nights of violence and arson that preceded that harassment and intimidation within a private neighborhood I'm siding with the home owner.  For example- Photos: 4 Police officers shot, buildings looted, fires set in downtown St. Louis riot


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 7, 2020)

Florida173 said:


>


...sigh...

The guy in this video lost me when he suggested that the police tampered with her weapon just to charge her; his referencing Joseph Goebbels sealed the deal.  

if there were as many conspiracies around ever corner as the internet tends to believe, they’d have to come up with a new definition of the term.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...sigh...
> 
> The guy in this video lost me when he suggested that the police tampered with her weapon just to charge her; his referencing Joseph Goebbels sealed the deal.
> 
> if there were as many conspiracies around ever corner as the internet tends to believe, they’d have to come up with a new definition of the term.


Crime lab admits they tampered with the pistol to make it functional.  It was a prop, and the AR was unloaded.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Don't really need to rehash this one, as I've a few posts on this. Under Missouri's castle doctrine your lawn falls under it and there is also no duty to retreat.



Agreed, they had no duty to retreat. However, they were not in danger of great bodily harm at that time, and they came out of their home to engage these people.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Agreed, they had no duty to retreat. However, they were not in danger of great bodily harm at that time, and they came out of their home to engage these people.



How could you possibly know this?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 7, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> How could you possibly know this?


I missed the memo that said tresspassing is a reasonable reason to fear for your life in the middle of an afternoon.  Again, they left their house to engage these people....they were looking for trouble; of course they were charged.

Had this group of protesters started banging on their windows or tried to enter their home, sure....engage.  But this was just silly theatrics and they end up looking like the d-bags who go to Starbucks or Chipotle in full kit....because they can.

To be clear, I don’t want to see them charged for anything, it will set precedent for future cases, but they used zero common sense and failed situational awareness 101


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Oct 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I missed the memo that said tresspassing is a reasonable reason to fear for your life in the middle of an afternoon.



You're kidding, right?


----------



## medicchick (Oct 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Agreed, they had no duty to retreat. However, they were not in danger of great bodily harm at that time, and they came out of their home to engage these people.


Antagonizing vs defending, I get what you are saying. By all means arm up but you don't need to escalate a situation before anything happens directly to you.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 7, 2020)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> You're kidding, right?


LOL. 100%

I lost track of my post, obviously didn’t mean to word it that way; thanks for catching it.


----------



## Loki (Oct 7, 2020)

Looking for work? get into security. Demand is extremely high in the affluent regions within the metropolitan areas.  I get regular calls for security and protection details from around the nation. As Police forces are defunded, reduced and crime is rising, the wealthy and powerful among us are contracting for protection.  Ask around and stay in the loop with companies and groups in your areas. Most are looking for retired Police personnel. Business I anticipate will boom after the election whomever wins. It will be a windfall for the qualified as the body count rises. Private security is growing rapidly. I encourage you to get your state Guard cards and firearms qualifications in order now before the election.


----------



## compforce (Oct 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Had this group of protesters started banging on their windows or tried to enter their home, sure....engage.


They live in a gated community.  The streets and the gates are communal private property, owned by all of the homeowners in the community.  Tearing down the gates to get on the private street is going through the outer defense perimeter of their property.  At what point can they defend it?

Do they have to wait until the house door is breached?  Do they have to wait until the protesters were in the house and banging on the door to the room that they are physically in?  How far outside the room can they go? 

What if the protesters stand in the street and throw incendiaries or fireworks at the house without actually setting foot on the lawn?  Can they engage then?  What about if the protesters stand outside the gate on a public street and shoot at their car in the driveway with small arms?   Why or why not?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Oct 8, 2020)

Being honest, I've proned out a motherfucker wearing my AR for pulling into my driveway.  Granted, there was some backstory to it, but I didn't know them from joe and didn't even know them in my life other than for the last 5 minutes I knew them.

They were trespassing. I was concerned for my wife and daughter. 

These were a husband and wife who have been hearing riots and ruckus that's not common, and now all of a sudden you have a mob who's caused property damage and are trespassing.  

Would I have drawn down on them, if not worse?


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 8, 2020)

Even if they made a fool of themselves I believe they were in the right, context is important. It was a private and gated community and there had been extreme violence on going throughout St. Louis at the time. 


Personally I prefer the classic but effective sitting on the front porch with the shotgun strat to effectively get the message across.


----------



## AWP (Oct 8, 2020)

They should be charged with "misdemeanor range theatrics." Conviction: Guilty. Sentencing: A lifetime of memes with no parole.
(gavel cracks)
All rise!


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2020)

As a free citizen, we SHOULD be the first line of defense for our lives, rights, and property.  I think they made the right call, and a brave one, to stand on their property with their weapons after a violent mob broke into their neighborhood, especially given the nationwide context.

The problem I wrestle with is the indiscriminate pointing of the firearm, especially by the wife. By all means, carry the weapon. But the only time you should point it at someone is when the lawful use of deadly force is called for, which did not appear to be the case. And if it ever becomes the case, stop pointing and start shooting (and I'm glad that didn't happen in this case).

And the handgun was some kind of prop???? Weird...

Given my EXTREMELY limited knowledge of applicable law, I think trespassing charges are warranted against the protesters,--ALL of them--and some kind of charges are warranted, perhaps only against the wife, for something assault-related.  Given the circumstances, maybe all of it could be handled via community service.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 8, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> and some kind of charges are warranted, perhaps only against the wife, for something assault-related. Given the circumstances, maybe all of it could be handled via community service.



Even if the gun had been previously rendered inoperable for previous court proceedings? Either way, charge her with a misdemeanor and let them get in with their lives.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Even if the gun had been previously rendered inoperable for previous court proceedings? Either way, charge her with a misdemeanor and let them get in with their lives.



I'm not sure that waving around an inoperable firearm is any different (legally) than waving around a working one.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Even if the gun had been previously rendered inoperable for previous court proceedings? Either way, charge her with a misdemeanor and let them get in with their lives.



Again, no legal expert here, but I think that's still a crime, even if it's a fake weapon.


----------



## medicchick (Oct 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Even if the gun had been previously rendered inoperable for previous court proceedings? Either way, charge her with a misdemeanor and let them get in with their lives.


If she'd been shot it would be self defense even though it was inop because they could claim "fear for their lives". How could anyone tell it didn't work? It is still a real firearm, just like one that jams is.

IANAL but I did serve on a grand jury for 4 months...lol


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 8, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'm not sure that waving around an inoperable firearm is any different (legally) than waving around a working one.



Well plenty different legally. Difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. Doesn't matter really. Will probably get thrown out because of police mishandling, and if not, pardon by the governor as he's already suggested.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well plenty different legally. Difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. Doesn't matter really. Will probably get thrown out because of police mishandling, and if not, pardon by the governor as he's already suggested.



For a number of states, the weapon being functional or not does not change the status of charged crime; robbery with a fake weapon can still carry the same punishment as robbery with a real one, for example.

I'm not sure if Missouri differentiates or not. Also, since the charge is assault(IIRC) the weapon's status may play more of a role than if it was a "menacing/threatening" charge.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 8, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> For a number of states, the weapon being functional or not does not change the status of charged crime; robbery with a fake weapon can still carry the same punishment as robbery with a real one, for example.
> 
> I'm not sure if Missouri differentiates or not. Also, since the charge is assault(IIRC) the weapon's status may play more of a role than if it was a "menacing/threatening" charge.


Missouri law requires the firearm to be functional.  See the video that @Florida173  posted.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Missouri law requires the firearm to be functional.  See the video that @Florida173  posted.


Must have missed him posting the video; thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah, this won't be abused at all:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314197512333529088
I quit using Yelp years ago because it's garbage.  This reinforces that decision for me.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 9, 2020)

Are people yelping the protests?


No one uses yelp


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yeah, this won't be abused at all:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314197512333529088
> I quit using Yelp years ago because it's garbage.  This reinforces that decision for me.


This cannot be real!?!

Can it?

ETA:

Oh for fucks sake, it is real.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 9, 2020)

Yelp has been abused before like this by the user base, people would mobilize their friends to leave negative reviews and call businesses racist etc.  when they weren't.  I've been on Yelp a long time and the forum side they had has become a loony bin.  This will get abused early and often.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 9, 2020)

Yelp gets sued into oblivion for this.  
Liable is different then just bad reviews.


----------



## AWP (Oct 9, 2020)

The first time you don't give Karen a free appetizer because her order is "late" your business will become a Klan rally.


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Yelp gets sued into oblivion for this.
> Liable is different then just bad reviews.


Can we leave reviews on Yelp itself?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yeah, this won't be abused at all:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314197512333529088
> I quit using Yelp years ago because it's garbage.  This reinforces that decision for me.


Let the abuse begin...

Antifa begins compiling lists of businesses to add to Yelp's 'racism' blacklist


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 11, 2020)

I saw the police response to this roll through my Bill's neighborhood. The first reports on Twitter was that it was a "white supremacist" that shot and killed an Antifa counter protestor. But what happened was is instead getting his news crew to a secure location he just decided to pop the dude in the dome. This may be a play stupid games, win stupid prizes thing, but every time someone says a cop should shoot to wound...well this security guy wasn't even 6 feet away.  On mobile so links won't post.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 11, 2020)

Probably the best context and review of the shooting so far:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315300862286131205
The moral of the story: Stay away from these bullshit "protests"; nothing good is  coming from them.  "Security guard" is fortunate no one else returned fire on him.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 11, 2020)

Murder occurred at a conservative rally, not a protest, as Antifa's MO is to instigate violence at conservative events/gatherings (by staging impromptu counter protests). Antifa shithead straight up killed the guy in cold blood. Just like the kids who were shot to death in the Seattle's CHAZ by Antifa. (Think I posted pics in an earlier thread.)

Highly doubt the shooter is licensed as a guard in CO.

Pic's in spoiler.


Spoiler




View attachment 36201





Spoiler: Tweets


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Murder occurred at a conservative rally, not a protest, as Antifa's MO is to instigate violence at conservative events/gatherings (by staging impromptu counter protests). Antifa shithead straight up killed the guy in cold blood. Just like the kids who were shot to death in the Seattle's CHAZ by Antifa. (Think I posted pics in an earlier thread.)
> 
> Highly doubt the shooter is licensed as a guard in CO.
> 
> ...


The news station already stated he was a hired security guard (by Pinkerton) to protect their reporter.  No conspiracy.  

However, given all the complaints by various fringe news agencies about non-lethal being used by the police against "journalists", if the station was so concerned about their safety, I find it odd that they don't have media identification/credentials displayed.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The news station already stated he was a hired security guard (by Pinkerton) to protect their reporter.  No conspiracy.
> 
> However, given all the complaints by various fringe news agencies about non-lethal being used by the police against "journalists", if the station was so concerned about their safety, I find it odd that they don't have media identification/credentials displayed.



Why go to the word conspiracy? Is it not possible, and even likely after people have dug into this guy that he was *also* a left leaning individual? I'm just saying that these things aren't mutually exclusive and to discount other possible truths is reckless commentary.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Why go to the word conspiracy? Is it not possible, and even likely after people have dug into this guy that he was *also* a left leaning individual? I'm just saying that these things aren't mutually exclusive and to discount other possible truths is reckless commentary.


Because he was responding to someone who literally stated he didn't believe the shooter was a licensed guard, even though all media reports since about 2 hours after the story broke have been clear on that?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The news station already stated he was a hired security guard (by Pinkerton) to protect their reporter.  No conspiracy.
> However, given all the complaints by various fringe news agencies about non-lethal being used by the police against "journalists", if the station was so concerned about their safety, I find it odd that they don't have media identification/credentials displayed.


I'd honestly have to see the records to see whether or not Channel 9 news is being honest about that. Though I think you're right that there's more to this than meets the eye. 

According to this tweet there were leftist instigators harassing people and a guy in an orange press vest to capture it. Orange vest also captured the "money" shot of the victims death.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315131992258695170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315089517322235904


Spoiler: Pics of event









Turns out the black guns matter shitbag is active in other demonstrations... one could say he is an agitator of sorts. Below is a link to him getting into a fight at a Bernie Sanders convention.
VIDEO: Fight Breaks Out At Bernie Sanders Rally In Colorado


Spoiler: Pics



Denver Elijah McClain Protest 07/25/2020


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315157050792476672


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Because he was responding to someone who literally stated he didn't believe the shooter was a licensed guard, even though all media reports since about 2 hours after the story broke have been clear on that?


Well clearly he's losing his license and his job from that.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 11, 2020)

Guy was backing up, had non lethal in his hand. I don't know what the limitations of self defense are in CO but it seems like the bodyguard is going to be going away for a while.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 11, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Guy was backing up, had non lethal in his hand. I don't know what the limitations of self defense are in CO but it seems like the bodyguard is going to be going away for a while.


Wonder if he's contract or an actual Pinkerton's employee?
Will Kamala or Joe's staff members bail him out?


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 11, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Wonder if he's contract or an actual Pinkerton's employee?
> Will Kamala or Joe's staff members bail him out?



I'd like to think that as a fully trained and legitimate bodyguard he would understand when self defense begins and ends but then again none of us were there in that moment so who knows what he was thinking. 

I can imagine a singular staffer who is sympathetic to his political views bailing him out, but hell would freeze before I can see bail money sent for him officially from the camp.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 11, 2020)

Just to add, when Antifa/Blm talk about a "Soup Drive" it means they're chucking cans of food at people. It's basically useful idiot code for assaulting people who don't conform with their crazy beliefs.

Spoiler contains information and graphic to illustrate the insanity of these people.


Spoiler: Media Graphic






Portland Police tweet from June serves as an early example of this behavior.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Because he was responding to someone who literally stated he didn't believe the shooter was a licensed guard, even though all media reports since about 2 hours after the story broke have been clear on that?




Or not?  Who knows...

City Of Denver: Matthew Dolloff Not Licensed To Be A Security Guard


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Or not?  Who knows...
> 
> City Of Denver: Matthew Dolloff Not Licensed To Be A Security Guard


Gonna cost Pinkertons 7 figures as a start.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Or not?  Who knows...
> 
> City Of Denver: Matthew Dolloff Not Licensed To Be A Security Guard


Yea, saw that in the politics thread. 

Denver, Colorado Springs, and Gelndale all require licenses to be a guard, the rest of the state has no rules regarding it.

Since Pinkerton already came out and said he was one of their contracting agents, I'm assuming he may have been hired to work outside of the city. Weird situation.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Gonna cost Pinkertons 7 figures as a start.


As a start, because this is an 8 figure min, the way it's playing out so far.  And there's the news station's liability...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea, saw that in the politics thread.
> 
> Denver, Colorado Springs, and Gelndale all require licenses to be a guard, the rest of the state has no rules regarding it.
> 
> Since Pinkerton already came out and said he was one of their contracting agents, I'm assuming he may have been hired to work outside of the city. Weird situation.



In theory since he's a "contractor" hopefully his contract would have indemnified them against Liability.  However, since they assigned him to cover a shift inside the city they re-created a situation and re-establishes liability.  Not overly interesting from a litigation stand point.  Maybe the news station has indemnified themselves from any liability, but with some solid lawyers I'm sure they will have to fork over  a pound of flesh.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Oct 12, 2020)

Did the left just show that the threat of serious bodily harm can result in legitimate use of lethal force?? I kid....I kid....


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Wonder if he's contract or an actual Pinkerton's employee?
> Will Kamala or Joe's staff members bail him out?





DA SWO said:


> Gonna cost Pinkertons 7 figures as a start.


Pinkerton is saying he's a sub-contracted guard, but won't name the company he's with.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 13, 2020)

Daily reminder that Portland should no longer be on your list of places to visit. 

Promoter for Portland’s ‘Day of Rage’ wants to ‘abolish colonial systems,’ report says


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 13, 2020)

Some interesting ideas in here.


----------



## 757 (Oct 13, 2020)

@Florida173 I hate the dude in the video...


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 14, 2020)

Two interesting developments for Rittenhouse case today.  

1. Kyle Rittenhouse, accused Kenosha gunman, won't face charges in Illinois: State's Attorney 
This just puts to rest any of the silly discussion around him possessing the rifle in IL or "carrying across state lines". They state the rifle was always in WI.

2.  Man charged with firing handgun just before alleged Kyle Rittenhouse shootings
This is important because it serves as a potential catalyst for the initial shooting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 15, 2020)

Shoot them in the leg...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316902468333260800


----------



## racing_kitty (Oct 15, 2020)

One of the last officer involved shootings I heard about here in my area was shot in the leg. Shame about that femoral artery, tho’. #RIPDumbass #CarefulWhatYouAskFor


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shoot them in the leg...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316902468333260800


I'd laugh but, sadly, there's A LOT of people that actually think this way and believe it's an option.  It doesn't help when knuckleheads continue to spread their ignorance.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 16, 2020)




----------



## Jaknight (Oct 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> View attachment 36329


Why kill em when you can cripple em- Joe the crippler Biden


----------



## Intel Nerd (Oct 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I'd laugh but, sadly, there's A LOT of people that actually think this way and believe it's an option.  It doesn't help when knuckleheads continue to spread their ignorance.



These are the same people who support "common sense gun control" but can't actually define what that is and just accept whatever extreme version is provided no matter how dumb.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 16, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> One of the last officer involved shootings I heard about here in my area was shot in the leg. Shame about that femoral artery, tho’. #RIPDumbass #CarefulWhatYouAskFor


That is UNSAT!  There is no reason the officer can't shoot around the femoral artery!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 16, 2020)

What's currently going down in Seattle.  Apparently Mayor Durkin had vetoed the defund the police vote, and they overturned her veto.  

'Very disappointing': Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan reacts to council overturning her police defunding veto

But it gets better.

Rantz: At least 118 Seattle police officers left department in mass exodus


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 16, 2020)

More info on the Antifa instigator, Jeremiah Elliot, who aided in the death of Lee Kelter. In an earlier post here, you can see Elliot trying to stage a fight with people leaving the conservative gathering before the shooting.

Elliot's past was dug up and it happens he helped "lead" Antifa rioters during their siege of the Aurora Police building.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316889710095081474Jeremiah Elliott is an Antifa Commander, Video Confirms - No Mans Land EP

Video of instigator Elliot leaving the shooting scene at 00:00:38 sec yelling, "One less white fucking supremist! Fuck yeah! Right in the fucking dome!".
Jeremiah Elliott leaving area after Lee Keltner was shot

The name of the tactic behind the shooting is being dubbed "the change up".


TLDR: Basically the threat matrix has changed. Politically backed killings by Antifa, to sow public fear and distrust, are now in play. Also, the media/press are not your friends. In many cases they are actively aiding and abetting these people. 9News is also owned my a giant media conglomerate named TENGA, said media conglomerate is also running the investigative journalism for this incident. Digital Media | Digital Content Marketing US : TEGNA


Spoiler: Elliot and 9News Interview



Note the sympathetic way the reporter leads the interview as well as Elliot's demeanor.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 17, 2020)

Update to the Denver security guard.  DA has charged him with 2nd Degree Murder.  

Unlicensed security guard Matthew Dolloff will be charged with murder in the 2nd degree


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 17, 2020)

Be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it....

Exodus of New York police continues as NYPD admits a 'troubling trend' — Daily Mail


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 18, 2020)

Ugh. 

Conservatives staging free speech rally attacked by opposition


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Conservatives staging free speech rally attacked by opposition


It's uncanny how quickly anti conservative mobs are mobilized.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 20, 2020)

And we go back to Seattle.  






Only charged with 1st degree assault.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 20, 2020)

8 North Minneapolis Residents Sue City For Lack Of Police Protection

8 North Minneapolis Residents Sue City For Lack Of Police Protection​


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Oct 21, 2020)

^Comedic justice, except for the fact that many in those neighborhoods probably never were about defunding the police. White Saviors to the rescue.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 21, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> ^Comedic justice, except for the fact that many in those neighborhoods probably never were about defunding the police. White Saviors to the rescue.


Did their Council person vote to defund?  That's who the former Councilman should be yelling at.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 22, 2020)

Judge ruled probable cause do not exist for and  dismissed the 3rd Degree Murder charge against Chauvin this morning.  No additional details behind the decision were included in this article:
Judge dismisses 3rd-degree murder charge against Derek Chauvin, other charges remain

Here is the statute for the 3rd Degree requirement:
Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes

The decision is notable because 3rd degree charge is what a former Minneapolis officer was convicted of in a wrongful shooting of Justine Damond a few years ago.  To me, while the 2nd degree murder charge still stands, really, only the manslaughter charge is viable.

Judge Cahill issued a 107 page order this morning.  When I find a good breakdown, I'll share.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 23, 2020)

Let's just say that Governor Cuomo and the various police forces in New York that are targeting Jews are helping no one.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319705840119668736
Cuomo Compared Orthodox Jews to the KKK. Now a Jewish School Is Taking Him to Court


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Let's just say that Governor Cuomo and the various police forces in New York that are targeting Jews are helping no one.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319705840119668736
> Cuomo Compared Orthodox Jews to the KKK. Now a Jewish School Is Taking Him to Court


I feel like we’ve seen this before, where the government entered homes looking for Jews...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 27, 2020)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis tonight...

“No justice, no peace. Shoot back at the police.”

Huh. Can’t say I agree with your message there, folks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321271355699056640


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 27, 2020)

So the Pennsylvania Governor is another one of those "mostly peaceful" types.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321231946702270466
For context if you didn't read anything or see the video.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320918523070337026
What de-escalation are they supposed to do here?  They retreat, concede territory, and he continues to not follow orders, he then starts walking straight at the officer with the knife in his hand.

That's a clean shoot.

Background? Violent felon.

Action News Investigation: Who was Walter Wallace Jr., the man shot by Philadelphia police?


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 27, 2020)

I dont know about you, but I feel like it was de-esculated just fine.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 27, 2020)

It’s a good shoot, but that doesn’t matter anymore....


----------



## Jaknight (Oct 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So the Pennsylvania Governor is another one of those "mostly peaceful" types.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321231946702270466
> ...


They obviously mishandled it. Here is the new approved way of confronting  a violent individual, please note the professionalism.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 28, 2020)

Also...crime in Seattle is about to go up!

Seattle City Council mulls plan that could result in dismissal of many misdemeanor crimes


----------



## AWP (Oct 28, 2020)

"Y'all didn't have to give him that many shots!"


Bruh, I feel you, that's just the state of marksmanship in America these days. Wasted ammo...


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 28, 2020)

^ f'n savage.  ❤


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 28, 2020)

As we continue to see with these "protests", it's become incredibly clear there isn't any police shooting involving a black person that these "activists" would ever find acceptable. 

As has been stated here in numerous posts, facts no longer matter.  Logic, reason, and personal accountability are not factors either.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What de-escalation are they supposed to do here?  They retreat, concede territory, and he continues to not follow orders, he then starts walking straight at the officer with the knife in his hand.


The obvious question for me was why didn't either officer on site even attempt using any non-lethal incapacitating tools like Tasers first in the lead-up to his charge while the cars still occluded his path?

The answer, it turns out, wasn't "we couldn't take the chance with this violent knife-wielding felon":


> [Police Commissioner] Outlaw has said *the officers involved in the shooting did not have Tasers*, which deliver an electric shock that temporarily stuns the target.
> 
> *Approximately a third of the police force of 2,301 officers have completed proper training to carry Tasers* and are required to carry them on duty, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer.


A problem that increased and targeted funding would help resolve, and the two officers cannot be blamed for not first using what they weren't even issued.

Fortunately...


> *Philadelphia legislators pledged to boost police department funding to ensure every officer is equipped with a Taser following the fatal police shooting of a Black man this week.*
> 
> On Wednesday, Council President Darrell Clarke committed to immediately transferring as much as $9.5 million for the purchase of the non-lethal weapons, although the exact amount needed to outfit the entire force with Tasers remained unclear.
> 
> “If the police say we need some additional money to accelerate the purchase of Tasers, that’s a simple ask,” Clarke said while flanked by a handful of members of City Council outside City Hall.


A great example for other cities to follow.

City Council looks to boost police funding to purchase Tasers


----------



## policemedic (Oct 29, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> The obvious question for me was why didn't either officer on site even attempt using any non-lethal incapacitating tools like Tasers first in the lead-up to his charge while the cars still occluded his path?



Why is that an obvious question?  Have you ever attempted to disarm a knife-wielding attacker using non-lethal means?

By the way, the Taser issue is a red herring.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 29, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Why is that an obvious question?


Do you mean, why is that an obvious question for me?  If so, that is because I would expect non-lethal incapacitating measures to be sought out and applied in lieu of applying lethal measures, when possible and feasible.


policemedic said:


> Have you ever attempted to disarm a knife-wielding attacker using non-lethal means?


Yes.


policemedic said:


> By the way, the Taser issue is a red herring.


It's not evident the Philadelphia Police Department feels the same.


----------



## policemedic (Oct 29, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Do you mean, why is that an obvious question for me?  If so, that is because I would expect non-lethal incapacitating measures to be sought out and applied in lieu of applying lethal measures, when possible and feasible.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> It's not evident the Philadelphia Police Department feels the same.



I agree that less-lethal should be used when appropriate.  This was not one of those instances.

If you’ve been attacked with a knife—for real, not training–and successfully disarmed the bad guy without getting cut yourself, you’re among very few who have done so.  I’ve trained in Filipino martial arts since I was 13, and the take away from knife defense is expect to get cut.  I am not paid enough to get cut.  Police officers are not expected to take unreasonable risks, and I would never advise one of my officers to attempt a disarm except in extremis.

I will say it again for clarity.  The Taser issue is a red herring, and any responses on Tasers from PPD brass that indicate otherwise are geared towards public relations.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 29, 2020)

Thanks for your experienced feedback and response.


policemedic said:


> I agree that less-lethal should be used when appropriate.  This was not one of those instances.


I'm not sure if that is a consensus conclusion, nor that at no point prior to the last-minute rush that a Taser would have been inappropriate while Wallace was repeatedly ignoring their orders to drop the knife.

Since no attempt occurred, the 'obvious' question for me as a non-LEO instead of assuming anything was to ask, "Why didn't they attempt non-lethal force first?"

I haven't heard anything from the officers involved, but the request from the Philadelphia Police Department for funding for Tasers and training doesn't suggest to me that they are committed to the idea that there was no point where non-lethal tools like Tasers were appropriate in that scenario.


policemedic said:


> If you’ve been attacked with a knife—for real, not training–and successfully disarmed the bad guy without getting cut yourself, you’re among very few who have done so.


At no point was I successful in disarming the knife.


policemedic said:


> I’ve trained in Filipino martial arts since I was 13, and the take away from knife defense is expect to get cut.


Ah, so they probably started you on weapons early aside from the more traditional route.  Yes, ideally on the outer limbs as an expected 'take' in the process of disarming or disabling them.  Rarely works as smoothly 'off-set'.


policemedic said:


> I am not paid enough to get cut.  Police officers are not expected to take unreasonable risks, and I would never advise one of my officers to attempt a disarm except in extremis.


I have nothing but agreement here.


policemedic said:


> I will say it again for clarity.  The Taser issue is a red herring, and any responses on Tasers from PPD brass that indicate otherwise are geared towards public relations.


I see, and that makes sense that it could be the case.

However, the fact that they've been working on trying to fill the Department with Tasers and training for non-lethal intervention methods for at least a decade would indicate that this is less of a reactive red herring PR tactic and more like the crescendo of a several-years-long effort to resolve an ongoing problem that now is actually being taken seriously and corrected with funding thanks to the media magnitude of the shooting.

There is no reason that 2/3 of a responding police force should remain unequipped with non-lethal alternatives of incapacitation, and I see only positives from procuring funding for the Philadelphia PD to outfit its force with non-lethal response options.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 29, 2020)

I agree that all LEOs should be properly equipped with non-lethal.  I also agree that a booger-eater with a knife within 25 feet is fair game to be a recipient of deadly force.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 29, 2020)

Subject kept going after the officers....he knew the risks.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 29, 2020)

Also, tasers aren’t non-lethal. They’re less than lethal. And they aren’t magic.

Tuscaloosa PD: Man dies in hospital after being tased by officer


Glasgow stabbings: Police Taser failed to disable knife attacker


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 29, 2020)

Locksteady said:
			
		

> There is no reason that 2/3 of a responding police force should remain unequipped with non-lethal alternatives of incapacitation, and I see only positives from procuring funding for the Philadelphia PD to outfit its force with non-lethal response options.


....and that brings the argument full circle.  

No reason, except the department doesn't have the funding or support from elected officials to make these purchases.  

These purchases require significant cash outlays.  Which is more important, body cam or taser?  How about officer training programs, where is that in the mix? Then of course, there's the actual manpower needs. These decisions make the issue very political.  It also puts culpability at the feet of the officials, but they'll never take ownership of it.

On a separate note, I don't live in Philadelphia but maybe those that do, like @policemedic, are willing to opine on this:  
I read somewhere, maybe here or elsewhere, that the police commissioner is relatively new and recently from Portland PD.  I haven't been impressed, to say the least, by the police response in Portland. When I hear about things like only 1/3rd of the force has tasers, Red Herring or not, it makes me wonder: what level of support do rank and file really have from the leaders in this department?


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> ....and that brings the argument full circle.
> 
> No reason, except the department doesn't have the funding or support from elected officials to make these purchases.


Support which comes when elected officials are shown the results of what happens absent their support for funding these and other initiatives.


Blizzard said:


> How about officer training programs, where is that in the mix? Then of course, there's the actual manpower needs. These decisions make the issue very political.  It also puts culpability at the feet of the officials, but they'll never take ownership of it.


Of course - and as mentioned before, prioritization for something rises in the midst of a crisis or public outcry.


Blizzard said:


> When I hear about things like only 1/3rd of the force has tasers, Red Herring or not, it makes me wonder: what level of support do rank and file really have from the leaders in this department?


Why exactly would the Department - much less a Commissioner who just got there in 2020 -  suddenly have the culpability that you just assigned to elected officials for failing for more than a decade to support the Department's repeated requests for more funding to arm and train the whole force with these tools?


----------



## policemedic (Oct 29, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> However, the fact that they've been working on trying to fill the Department with Tasers and training for non-lethal intervention methods for at least a decade would indicate that this is less of a reactive red herring PR tactic and more like the crescendo of a several-years-long effort to resolve an ongoing problem that now is actually being taken seriously and corrected with funding thanks to the media magnitude of the shooting.
> 
> There is no reason that 2/3 of a responding police force should remain unequipped with non-lethal alternatives of incapacitation, and I see only positives from procuring funding for the Philadelphia PD to outfit its force with non-lethal response options.



Let me preface this by saying I’ve been certified as a Taser instructor, carry one, and have been known to use it.  I’ve seen it work spectacularly and marginally.  To me, its main utility is in how quickly it deescalates a situation once someone is painted by the targeting lasers.  I do believe a Taser should be available to every officer, but the truth is police services can and are provided without them.  

However, failure to issue Tasers cannot be conflated with a lack of less-lethal options.  PPD line officers have OC spray and batons.  Other units have a more robust selection of options (well, until CIty Council makes them illegal and takes them away from us).

I can tell you without equivocation there has not been any urgency within the PPD leadership to issue Tasers, not now and not in previous administrations.  PC Outlaw cannot be held responsible for this.  They were used as a carrot to motivate officers to volunteer for an unpopular program.  Tasers have been available to select personnel for more than a decade, but they have not widely distributed.  Even the recent announcement of a $900K line item in the municipal budget for Tasers is a sop; even with discounts applied, that is roughly 600 Tasers or less once you account for the devices, cartridges, holsters, training, and backfill expenses.  For context, there are some 6500 sworn officers within the PPD.

Having a Taser should not have changed the outcome of this incident.  That is a segue for my next post....


----------



## policemedic (Oct 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> On a separate note, I don't live in Philadelphia but maybe those that do, like @policemedic, are willing to opine on this:
> I read somewhere, maybe here or elsewhere, that the police commissioner is relatively new and recently from Portland PD.  I haven't been impressed, to say the least, by the police response in Portland. When I hear about things like only 1/3rd of the force has tasers, Red Herring or not, it makes me wonder: what level of support do rank and file really have from the leaders in this department?



Let’s just say the rank and file do not have confidence in the PC.  It is felt she has proven she cannot be trusted, is a weak leader, and is frankly out of her depth.

An example is her unwillingness to stand behind these officers.  She could have explained that there are certain instances where, regrettably, the police must exercise their lawful authority to use lethal force.  She could have done this in a way that didn’t taint the investigation, but she chose not to.  

I do agree that she inherited the Taser problem (and others) and she shouldn’t be viewed as culpable for those.  Those issues can be fixed, but will require time, funding, and training.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 29, 2020)

Thank you for sharing your more direct insight on this - this was a very helpful on-the-ground perspective of all the points we've been discussing, and it also showed me where some of Blizzard's points landed as well and why.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 5, 2020)

Boy, email signatures have changed quite a bit compared to the one that we got last year from this teacher....


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Boy, email signatures have changed quite a bit compared to the one that we got last year from this teacher....
> 
> View attachment 36647


Is this the same teacher?
Teacher draws criticism for politically-charged messages in the classroom - Alpha News

She should be dismissed. Time to find a different career.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Is this the same teacher?
> Teacher draws criticism for politically-charged messages in the classroom - Alpha News
> 
> She should be dismissed. Time to find a different career.


No.  Same area though.  Anoka/Hennepin has gone completely off the rails.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Is this the same teacher?
> Teacher draws criticism for politically-charged messages in the classroom - Alpha News
> 
> She should be dismissed. Time to find a different career.


Well I agree with one of her stickers: "Stop making stupid people famous."


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Boy, email signatures have changed quite a bit compared to the one that we got last year from this teacher....
> 
> View attachment 36647


You need to be more gender neutral so you can't say boy. Maybe, holy smokes. No, too religious. Gee golly might work.


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 5, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> You need to be more gender neutral so you can't say boy. Maybe, holy smokes. No, too religious. Gee golly might work.


It's only a matter of time before they realize those, too, are just euphemisms for the Christian God.

There is no escape!


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 5, 2020)

Hate, because, seriously?! Keep your beliefs to yourself and not the classroom.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Hate, because, seriously?! Keep your beliefs to yourself and not the classroom.


Well...I am willing to bet that it is school district wide and that the teachers have no choice.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Boy, email signatures have changed quite a bit compared to the one that we got last year from this teacher....
> 
> View attachment 36647


Before the "What's wrong with the Left" thread was merged into the "All Politics" thread, I posted about how academia was ideologically compromised. I even posted a gender and sexuality worksheet an elementary school 'teacher' was trying to push to his students.
http://www.transhealthsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/The-Gender-Unicorn.pdf

Reason the above is pertinent, is due to the way kids are socialized at school. If you ever wonder how you get people to deify criminals and champion socialist causes like defunding the police, this is it. If said 'educator' is comfortable sending that in an email, imagine what goes on behind school doors.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 5, 2020)

Try to keep this relevant protest and disband the cops.  We don't want this going off the rails.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Before the "What's wrong with the Left" thread was merged into the "All Politics" thread, I posted about how academia was ideologically compromised. I even posted a gender and sexuality worksheet an elementary school 'teacher' was trying to push to his students.
> http://www.transhealthsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/The-Gender-Unicorn.pdf
> 
> Reason the above is pertinent, is due to the way kids are socialized at school. If you ever wonder how you get people to deify criminals and champion socialist causes like defunding the police, this is it. If said 'educator' is comfortable sending that in an email, imagine what goes on behind school doors.



This is a fail. Major fail.

You mention right off the bat a thread that has been merged into another, but posted here instead. STOP.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 5, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Try to keep this relevant protest and disband the cops.  We don't want this going off the rails.





Kaldak said:


> This is a fail. Major fail.
> 
> You mention right off the bat a thread that has been merged into another, but posted here instead. STOP.


Apologies, not trying to derail the thread. Reason I mention that earlier thread was due to the timeline I posted these observation. I made these observations months before the George Floyd incident and before this was a thread.

The common theme I was trying to illustrate is that the core message of these protests is that America is unfair, patently racist, and that the police serve as enforcers of this 'order'. These themes don't just show up out of nowhere, they're being pushed by people and many of these false premises were showing up in academia years before they became a national issue.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 5, 2020)

I cleaned up the mess but pay better attention to where you are posting.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 5, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I cleaned up the mess but pay better attention to where you are posting.


Apologies brother. Thanks for catching that.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2020)

I may have committed to stay neutral in the political thread, but I made no such claim for this thread.

I still stand on the platform that these two, by leaving their home and engaging the crowd, we’re looking for trouble and deserve whatever comes their way.

#GetOffMySide

Gun-waving St. Louis couple sues news photographer  Bill Greenblatt


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I may have committed to stay neutral in the political thread, but I made no such claim for this thread.
> 
> I still stand on the platform that these two, by leaving their home and engaging the crowd, we’re l*ooking for trouble and deserve whatever comes their way*.
> 
> ...



I understand the sentiment, but the same (bolded) can be said for the crowd who broke into their community and made the couple feel threatened, especially given the widespread violence and crime that was taking place elsewhere, which is why I usually don't find it to be a compelling argument. Moreover, under the circumstances, I think the couple were totally justified to come out onto their own property with weapons in hand.

That said, pointing weapons at people is a crime. It's also stupid. The only time you should point a gun at someone is if you are going to shoot them, and the only reason to shoot them is if they are an immediate threat to life or property. That did not appear to be the case here.

I think the photography lawsuit is laughable and is likely to get tossed.  As @AWP says, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."  I also think charging the couple, especially the woman, was the right thing to do.  She was actively pointing a gun (which may or may not have been some kind of starter pistol??) at a huge crowd of people, in a situation that I do not believe called for lethal force.  But I'm also thinking that there are some mitigating circumstances that might warrant a reduction (or even dropping) of charges, or some type of plea bargain with community service or something similar.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 9, 2020)

The McCloseski's were literally defending their home and neighborhood. Would anyone trust a violent and arson prone mob, that's just torn down the fence gate, to not burn your house down and/or murder you and your loved ones?

Images: Gate house is at the bottom left of the street view shot.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 9, 2020)

@Marauder06 Whoops looks like we posted at the same time. My bad dude.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Marauder06 Whoops looks like we posted at the same time. My bad dude.



No issues, different people = different thoughts = different posts, even if they happen at the same time :)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I may have committed to stay neutral in the political thread, but I made no such claim for this thread.
> 
> I still stand on the platform that these two, by leaving their home and engaging the crowd, we’re looking for trouble and deserve whatever comes their way.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what their standing would be to sue the photographer unless he published the photo himself?  Otherwise, since they were private citizens and not public figures, this whole event and subsequent publication of photos which only shows one side of the event definitely gives them standing to retrieve damages.  However, that would be against whatever newspaper is publishing the photos and not the person taking the photos.  I hope that makes sense.

My biggest beef with this whole thing, IFF we're going to charge this couple for felony brandishing under Missouri statutes, we're also going to need non-selective prosecution. (as stated in other posts Under Missouri Castle doctrine your entire property, including the lawn is considered a part of your castle, and under Missouri self-defense laws there is no duty to retreat) The original investigation into the incident had the McCloskeys as victims, which they remain victims in this.  Their neighborhood was broken into and people were on their property.  So the selective prosecution of the McCloskeys and zero prosecution of those who criminally trespassed and menaced doesn't jive for me.  Again, they're just being made an example of and JUSTICE is not being served.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I may have committed to attempt to stay neutral in the political thread, I made no such claim for this thread.
> 
> I still stand on the platform that these two, by leaving their home and engaging this crowd, we’re looking for trouble and deserve whatever comes their way.
> 
> ...



At first I thought they had no grounds to sue, until it said the photographer made profit from them using their likeness if that's the case they definitely have grounds.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 10, 2020)

So, crime is up in Minneapolis: New look at police stats shows the spread of violent crime across Minneapolis this summer

Police Officers are also leaving Minneapolis PD in droves, my assumption based on the following article is that Minneapolis PD no longer has the ability to cover it's patrol areas and this has forced the city council to respond by contracting services from the county agency (Hennepin County Sheriff's Department) and a a regional agency (Metro Transit PD).  And honestly I'm not sure what kind of coverage Metro Transit will be able to provide since the agency has only 120 sworn personnel for a 7 county area. \

New look at police stats shows the spread of violent crime across Minneapolis this summer

You get what you vote for.


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Not directly related to disbanding the police, but definitely thought it worth sharing.
In the past few months, after all these national incidents involving police have occurred, the Ramsay county Sheriff has started live streaming his shift.  Ramsay county is located right next to Minneapolis, with its jurisdiction covering part of the city itself.  He streams it live on both Facebook and YouTube under the channel name of "Live on Patrol."  I've found it quite interesting to tune in to the stream every once in a while, and it provides some insight and transparency into the day-to-day of law enforcement.  Definitely one of the positives to come from all of this, IMO.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Salamie3 said:


> Not directly related to disbanding the police, but definitely thought it worth sharing.
> In the past few months, after all these national incidents involving police have occurred, the Ramsay county Sheriff has started live streaming his shift.  Ramsay county is located right next to Minneapolis, with its jurisdiction covering part of the city itself.  He streams it live on both Facebook and YouTube under the channel name of "Live on Patrol."  I've found it quite interesting to tune in to the stream every once in a while, and it provides some insight and transparency into the day-to-day of law enforcement.  Definitely one of the positives to come from all of this, IMO.


Point of clarification, while Ramsey County is indeed adjacent to Minneapolis, all of Minneapolis is in Hennepin County. There is no overlap of jurisdiction.


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Point of clarification, while Ramsey County is indeed adjacent to Minneapolis, all of Minneapolis is in Hennepin County. There is no overlap of jurisdiction.


Thanks for the clarification.  On some shifts he has patrolled through downtown Minneapolis, not sure how that works with jurisdiction.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Salamie3 said:


> Thanks for the clarification.  On some shifts he has patrolled through downtown Minneapolis, not sure how that works with jurisdiction.


Are you sure he wasn't in downtown St. Paul? That's in Ramsey County.


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Are you sure he wasn't in downtown St. Paul? That's in Ramsey County.


Just double-checked, they did patrol through what they referred to as downtown Minneapolis.  Admittedly, I am not very familiar with the geography of the county lines in Minnesota.

Regardless, I think it's a very informative channel and worth checking out.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Salamie3 said:


> Just double-checked, they did patrol through what they referred to as downtown Minneapolis.  Admittedly, I am not very familiar with the geography of the county lines in Minnesota.
> 
> Regardless, I think it's a very informative channel and worth checking out.


Yeah, Ramsey County would never regularly patrol anywhere in Minneapolis or Hennepin County.  Possible they were doing some sort of one off/special agency assist but they don't patrol Mpls.  But glad you found it informative.  Link?


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yeah, Ramsey County would never regularly patrol anywhere in Minneapolis or Hennepin County.  Possible they were doing some sort of one off agency assist but they don't patrol Mpls.  But glad you found it informative.  Link?


To the channel or a video or them patrolling in Minneapolis?


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Salamie3 said:


> To the channel or a video or them patrolling in Minneapolis?


Either one...or both.


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Either one...or both.


Channel name is "Live on Patrol"

Link to the youtube channel: Live on Patrol

I watched the video of them patrolling Minneapolis live on their Facebook page, and they didn't save the stream.  However, a different channel reposted clips of the stream on YouTube.

Link to the re-uploaded clips:











(Note: The channel "DJ Slime" incorrectly refers to them as MPD officers in the description of the video.  He is in fact the Ramsay county Sheriff and his partner is a part-time crime analyst.)


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I may have committed to stay neutral in the political thread, but I made no such claim for this thread.
> 
> I still stand on the platform that these two, by leaving their home and engaging the crowd, we’re looking for trouble and deserve whatever comes their way.
> 
> ...


Photographer was trespassing.
Just because Minnesota has pussy laws doesn't mean other states have the same laws.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Photographer was trespassing.
> Just because Minnesota has pussy laws doesn't mean other states have the same laws.


Actually....
when iit comes to laws about carrying a gun and using iit in self-defense, compared to many states, Minnesota is hardly at the “pussy“ factor.

That said, too many people take vantage of the technicalities of a law versus the intent of a law.

For example, in Minnesota you are free to open carry as long as you have a permit to carry. The intent was not to have people open carrying their pistol wherever they go, it was instead written with the intent to keep the “Karens”  of the world from calling the cops on someone who accidentally displays their  pistol while they are pumping gas or some other everyday routine.  

Legally within their rights or not, those two clowns left their home to confront this crowd when they were in no immediate danger; nobody was banging on their door threatening them, there were TV cameras all over the place.

They are no different than the dopes who walk into a Starbucks or hipotle in full kit “just because they can”

I say to them as I say to these two, “get off my side”. 

To add, and I will admit I may be biased because of their behavior. If the exact same couple had walked out of their house with the same weapons, had them at their sides, and simply watched the protesters walk past without waving their weapons around and yelling at them to get off their property, I would probably feel 100% different and be on their side completely.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For example, in Minnesota you are free to open carry as long as you have a permit to carry. The intent was not to have people open carrying their pistol wherever they go, it was instead written with the intent to keep the “Karens”  of the world from calling the cops on someone who accidentally displays their  pistol while they are pumping gas or some other everyday routine.


So a 2nd amendment law that was passed for convenience? Here in Az we have open carry and constitutional carry in case an individual needs to put someone down, not to free up the dispatcher from spam callers. Your spirit of the law and my spirit of the law fall into two entirely different categories.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Salamie3 said:


> Channel name is "Live on Patrol"
> 
> Link to the youtube channel: Live on Patrol
> 
> ...


Yeah, they're definitely driving through Minneapolis in those videos but I don't think they're actually "on patrol". Seems they may be in an off-duty, unmarked squad and simply doing a drive around.  They're not responding to calls or anything.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2020)

I am the first to admit that I can sometimes wear rose colored glasses when it comes to gun laws and the interpretation of them.

The optics are always very intense on any gun situation and when people flaunt those laws, I believe that they do more damage to the concept of protecting Second Amendment than they do good.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Actually....
> when iit comes to laws about carrying a gun and using iit in self-defense, compared to many states, Minnesota is hardly at the “pussy“ factor.
> 
> That said, too many people take vantage of the technicalities of a law versus the intent of a law.
> ...



Respectfully disagree, they were on their private property and arguably had already demonstrated violence at that point by breaking down the gate.

Where does being able to protect your property end and begin?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2020)

I recognize that this is unwinnable argument on my part and we are fortunate that our laws also protect the stupid, I just get really frustrated when I see people do dumb things with guns and offer ammo to those who want to disrupt my gun rights.

And to be clear, by “dumb things with guns“ I mean them coming out of their house and sweeping the crowd.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 10, 2020)

I would have preferred that they had the pistol holstered and the rifle sitting in his lap. Visible, but less confrontational.

ETA: While drinking coffee.


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yeah, they're definitely driving through Minneapolis in those videos but I don't think they're actually "on patrol". Seems they may be in an off-duty, unmarked squad and simply doing a drive around.  They're not responding to calls or anything.


They always drive an unmarked Dodge Durango, so that's nothing new.  Given that he's the Sheriff, I have rarely seen him respond to calls.  He mostly just drives around pulling traffic and waits for a major incident to arise.  So this is nothing out of the ordinary.  Also, around timestamp 7:40 he says, "Live on patrol in Minneapolis, Minnesota."


----------



## Florida173 (Nov 10, 2020)

This is pretty crazy. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326331053309530114


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 10, 2020)

That's one hell of a link diagram.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 11, 2020)

I knew it! Marxists! 

I feel like the Cat who ate the Canary.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> This is pretty crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326331053309530114


Twitter just wiped it from the web. 


Spoiler: Image






Before: 





On the bright side... I saved the links! They're in the spoiler tab.


Spoiler: Links



Gofile

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thre...ooZgs2dE03ZtQTju_3c5fbgkLWF3t2eY8HSBOBVm5EI-K


----------



## AWP (Nov 11, 2020)

When I learned to play golf, my dad gave me a very important life lesson, one that I didn't grasp until later:

Learn the rulebook. This isn't to dime out others, but to improve your play. What can you do, what can you get away with, what are your rights?

Maybe there's a reason the rulebook isn't so easy to read or accessible by all....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 11, 2020)

One of the most vocal proponents of the defund the police movement has been the radical left. Specifically, the political movement spearheaded by the 'Justice Democrats'. Well... looks like their media daring AOC, may be nothing more than a pawn. This is the gal whose leading the 'defund the police' & 'racial justice' charge.






This is just me, but I'm starting to wonder how much of the chaos we've seen has been helped along by her handlers. Turns out maybe a whole lot!

AOC's fellow Justice Democrat colleague, Rashida Talib, is seen yucking it up with Olivia Katbi Smith. Olivia is one of the ANTIFA ringleaders that just got outed in yesterdays information honeypot release. (In 'Spoilers: Links' in my last post)

Olivias Dossier: Canary Mission


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> One of the most vocal proponents of the defund the police movement has been the radical left. Specifically, the political movement spearheaded by the 'Justice Democrats'. Well... looks like their media daring AOC, may be nothing more than a pawn. This is the gal whose leading the 'defund the police' & 'racial justice' charge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Saw that screenshot on the other link.  People in ANTIFA donating to CAIR...why am I unsurprised?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Saw that screenshot on the other link.  People in ANTIFA donating to CAIR...why am I unsurprised?


Yep! Bird's of a feather and whatnot . With all this information being made available, it's becoming pretty easy to see the web of interconnectivity these radicals have with the DNC. Not to mention other radical Anti-US groups.

This dump makes plausible deniability that much harder. The people whitewashing the actions of BLM and ANTIFA just got their paint bucket kicked over.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Twitter just wiped it from the web.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image
> ...


Link unmasking the agitators behind the riots has been wiped from the web. Same with the screenshots and images of the Antifa ringleaders in the archived thread.

Not sure how long the data was up, but it was up for less than 8 days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm not really sure where to put this one, so move at will. Is anyone surprised that this stuff is being driven by white liberals? Is our greater angst and problems with race being driven by the forced identity politics that the Democrats have perfected and fomented?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332472999405084674


----------



## Archangel27 (Dec 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> When I learned to play golf, my dad gave me a very important life lesson, one that I didn't grasp until later:
> 
> Learn the rulebook. This isn't to dime out others, but to improve your play. What can you do, what can you get away with, what are your rights?
> 
> Maybe there's a reason the rulebook isn't so easy to read or accessible by all....



I'll admit. The pre-2019 version of the Rules of Golf was super obtuse. I did my best to learn them and still occasionally got it wrong.

Interesting though, that Barack Obama has recognized how polarizing the "Defund the Police" slogan is, and has obscured what could be done in a bipartisan way to bring together the country over some shared ideas.

Obama: Criminal justice reformers ‘lost a big audience’ with defund the police rhetoric


----------



## Brill (Dec 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm not really sure where to put this one, so move at will. Is anyone surprised that this stuff is being driven by white liberals?


My org is run almost exclusively by white liberals and they are destroying that place. Morale is very low and COVID psychosis is very high.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 4, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> I'll admit. The pre-2019 version of the Rules of Golf was super obtuse. I did my best to learn them and still occasionally got it wrong.
> 
> Interesting though, that Barack Obama has recognized how polarizing the "Defund the Police" slogan is, and has obscured what could be done in a bipartisan way to bring together the country over some shared ideas.
> 
> Obama: Criminal justice reformers ‘lost a big audience’ with defund the police rhetoric


Most well-known establishment Democrat figures you read about, including President-Elect Biden, don't support defunding the police.


----------



## Brill (Dec 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Most well-known establishment Democrat figures you read about, including President-Elect Biden, don't support defunding the police.



Wasn‘t that the implied position of the Party: Less overt policing, more community, increased weapons proficiency to “shoot ‘em in the leg”?

If the Biden government does give the people what they want, will they just shrug and “meh, ok”?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 5, 2020)

Older, but related story to support for "defund the police:"

These Top Democrats Go Further Than Biden on Diverting Police Funds


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 5, 2020)

lindy said:


> Wasn‘t that the implied position of the Party: Less overt policing, more community, increased weapons proficiency to “shoot ‘em in the leg”?


Not at all.

Calls for reform in police SOPs are different from requests for funding changes, and they persist across partisan lines.  However, I do think there was initial pressure in June on most establishment Democrats (except maybe Biden, Karen Bass, and a few others) to be less vocal about not supporting initiatives to defund the police in order to avoid immediate political suicide.  This seems to have worked out on the national level, despite GOP attempts to misconstrue anything less that vocal rejection as support.

If we’re talking about existing partisan defunding efforts, look no further than our current administration, which has repeatedly pressed for budget cuts to law enforcement spending. Just this year, President Trump’s most recent budget plan requested a $*465 million budget cut* to state and local law enforcement initiatives coordinated under the DOJ’s Office of Justice Programs. This included a 58% cut to a law enforcement recruitment and training initiative.

To contrast, the incoming Biden administration plans to not only avoid defunding the police but to *invest at least $300 million *into the hiring and education of even more law enforcement officers, along with pushing an additional *$20 billion* towards crime prevention and recidivism reduction efforts.

The rhetoric pushed by either side to draw the dividing lines and frame how people should see the ‘opposition’ is its own game. It is one that is not designed to encourage praising the other’s successes or critiquing one’s own faults – much less to bring a nation together on the willingness to do those two things.

Also, welcome back. You should tell that Heine in your pic that all it needs to sort that specific Corona problem is a lime.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 5, 2020)

To me, there's never been a question that BLM movement is a fraud, beginning with it's false narrative.  

Now, unsurprisingly, it seems questions are being raised about their finances  of the Black Live Matter Global Network as well:
BLM faces revolt as local chapters allege power grab, murky finances

Local Black Lives Matter chapters express concerns with global network in joint message after recent moves


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To me, there's never been a question that BLM movement is a fraud, beginning with it's false narrative.


We'll have to soundly agree to disagree on that one, for sure.  I'm not even sure if a decentralized movement of actors with innumerable conceptions of the problem and its solution is even positioned to commit 'fraud' of any sort in the first place.

I do think the Black Lives Global Network is well-positioned to commit that if it wanted to, especially with millions of supporters (and subsequent dollars of funding) available to exploit.

Let's hope they haven't proven the wisdom in keeping such movements of its kind decentralized by exploiting the people who look to them for centralized leadership.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To me, there's never been a question that BLM movement is a fraud, beginning with it's false narrative.
> 
> Now, unsurprisingly, it seems questions are being raised about their finances  of the Black Live Matter Global Network as well:
> BLM faces revolt as local chapters allege power grab, murky finances
> ...


When Shaun [Talcum X] King was in charge millions disappeared.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 5, 2020)

Who is BLM? Haven't seen any riots lately. The coffers must be full from all the fundraising that took place earlier in the year. I can only assume that because they're in the shadows again, think 2016, that we have finally reached world peace. Until 2024 at least.


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Calls for reform in police SOPs are different from requests for funding changes, and they persist across partisan lines.  However, I do think there was initial pressure in June on most establishment Democrats (except maybe Biden, Karen Bass, and a few others) to be less vocal about not supporting initiatives to defund the police in order to avoid immediate political suicide.  This seems to have worked out on the national level, despite GOP attempts to misconstrue anything less that vocal rejection as support.
> 
> ...



Why would taxpayers in TX pay for the hiring and education for cops in WA, MN, OR, etc? Regarding SOPs for local cops, why would anyone outside my local jurisdiction have the ability to influence my police form?

Columbus city and county sheriff have zero jurisdiction in Atlanta or Wash DC but they should be able to dictate the “rules” for the local force? If that the new normal, are we Georgians able to influence Seattle and Portland police?


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> We'll have to soundly agree to disagree on that one, for sure.  I'm not even sure if a decentralized movement of actors with innumerable conceptions of the problem and its solution is even positioned to commit 'fraud' of any sort in the first place.
> 
> I do think the Black Lives Global Network is well-positioned to commit that if it wanted to, especially with millions of supporters (and subsequent dollars of funding) available to exploit.
> 
> Let's hope they haven't proven the wisdom in keeping such movements of its kind decentralized by exploiting the people who look to them for centralized leadership.



The money trail seems confusing. Why? Other charities are able to operate with transparency. If others can why not BLM?

Money to BLM doesn‘t go to BLM but is bundled and AVAILABLE to BLM.

The story behind Thousand Currents, the charity that doles out the millions of dollars Black Lives Matter generates in donations


BLM donation page says:

Your contribution will benefit Black Lives Matter Support Fund at Tides Foundation.

Tides Welcomes Black Lives Matter As A New Partner - Tides


Previously, the fund was run by another organization.

"The Black Lives Matter Foundation" Raised Millions. It's Not Affiliated With The Black Lives Matter Movement.



> Further obscuring the situation is the movement’s official name, “Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, Inc” — which wasn’t registered in the state of Delaware until 2017 — while Barnes owns and operates the Black Lives Matter Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit registered in California. Because the official movement is not a nonprofit — it raises money through a charity partner called Thousand Currents— Barnes’ organization has benefited from the brand confusion as people have conflated the two and donated money to his charity via GoFundMe, PayPal, or employee donation matching platforms.



Why is it so confusing?



> Employees at Apple AAPL, -0.56%, Google GOOG, +0.07%, Microsoft MSFT, +0.06%   and Dropbox DBX, +0.59% tried to send donations to the Black Lives Matter Foundation through gift-matching programs run by Benevity, a company that manages employee giving and other social responsibility functions for companies, including MarketWatch’s parent company, News Corp NWSA, +0.57%.
> 
> None of the money those employees donated to the Black Lives Matter Foundation actually ended up with the foundation, according to Apple, Google, and Microsoft.



People donated millions of dollars to the wrong Black Lives Matter foundation — read this before you give to any charity


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 6, 2020)

Imagine that, leader's of a socialist movement, gain power and money.  Then become corrupt with power and money.  I've never heard of that before.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> The money trail seems confusing. Why? Other charities are able to operate with transparency. If others can why not BLM?
> 
> Money to BLM doesn‘t go to BLM but is bundled and AVAILABLE to BLM.
> 
> ...


That part should really raise eyebrows.  A sponsor like Thousand Currents/Tides should really only be used and/or while an organization is getting itself set up.  BLMGN was founded in 2013.  Why haven't they developed a corporate structure in 7 years?!


----------



## Steve1839 (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> My org is run almost exclusively by white liberals and they are destroying that place. Morale is very low and COVID psychosis is very high.


Sounds very much like the Department of the Inferior...I mean Interior...


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> The money trail seems confusing. Why?


The links you provided collectively explain the thing that seems confusing.

Here's my abridged version from the links.

1. BLMGM, like any non-501(c), requires fiscal sponsorship in order to receive charitable donations.
2. Its initial fiscal sponsor was Thousand Currents, and the next was Tides Foundation.
3. There is an actual 501(c) unaffiliated with BLMGM entitled "Black Lives Matter Foundation", which was stood up in CA by a man in 2015 and designed to bridge the police and local community together.  Around the time of the June 2020 unrest, it was inadvertently receiving donations from people who didn't do their research before clicking on the first thing that looked right.

The outcry from some BLM chapters about how BLMGM is managing the donations received from its fiscal sponsors is a separate issue.

Hopefully that helps.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 6, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> The links you provided collectively explain the thing that seems confusing.
> 
> Here's my abridged version from the links.
> 
> ...


Most charitable organizations maintain their own corporate organization. Use of a sponsor is typically a temporary arrangement until this is established.  Seven years later and BLMGN still hasn't done so is strange.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 6, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Most charitable organizations maintain their own corporate organization. Use of a sponsor is typically a temporary arrangement until this is established.  Seven years later and BLMGN still hasn't done so is strange.


Interesting, but apparently not compelling enough for the chapters that already have reasons to decry them  to challenge.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 6, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Interesting, but apparently not compelling enough for the chapters that already have reasons to decry them  to challenge.


It should absolutely make anyone looking at the organization question exactly what's going on and where the money is going.


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> That part should really raise eyebrows.  A sponsor like Thousand Currents/Tides should really only be used and/or while an organization is getting itself set up.  BLMGN was founded in 2013.  Why haven't they developed a corporate structure in 7 years?!


I think the real eyebrow raising part is that BLM has been able to successfully market “white guilt” yet who benefits?

Baltimore, a city with heavy minority population, is full of crime, low literacy, unemployment, terrible housing, etc.

BLMs coffers are FULL yet blacks lives don’t seem to be improving. Why?

In the 70's, I spent a lot of time very close to an indian reservation in WA state.  The majority of housing on that "res" was terrible...3rd world terrible.  Sometime after the turn of the century (ish), they constructed casinos and within just a few years, housing on the reservation was drastically improved because of the influx of cash from casino ops going to the tribe.  Next the tribe built a HUGE school with all the latest stuff for sports and academics.  Graduation rates soared because of increased education requirements for good workers in the casinos and within tribal offices.  The Muckleshoot tribe was taking care of themselves.

If an indian tribe can do it, why cannot BLM?  Where are the college scholarships?  Where are the community projects? Where are local private security forces so the kids of Baltimore can just go to school without gang intervention?

In my opinion, BLM seems more like a Homeowners Association paid for by others (homeowners) to benefit others (lawyers who manage the HOA) who don't live in the neighborhood.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> BLMs coffers are FULL yet blacks lives don’t seem to be improving. Why?


Pick me, pick me! Because the election is over...


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Pick me, pick me! Because the election is over...



Winner, winner, smoked turkey dinner!!!


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> I think the real eyebrow raising part is that BLM has been able to successfully market “white guilt” yet who benefits?
> 
> Baltimore, a city with heavy minority population, is full of crime, low literacy, unemployment, terrible housing, etc.
> 
> ...



That's so blatantly obvious.  They don't want to use their new found money.  They want your money and to put you in the poor house, for equality and shit.


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> Where are the college scholarships? Where are the community projects? Where are local private security forces so the kids of Baltimore can just go to school without gang intervention?



This country has a pretty shitty history of killing black people when they try to do community projects

In 1969, charismatic Black Panthers leader Fred Hampton was killed in a hail of gunfire. 50 years later, the fight against police brutality continues

Or banning weapons when black people start carrying arms.

The NRA Supported Gun Control When the Black Panthers Had the Weapons


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 6, 2020)

A point I'd like to make about all the "where's all the BLM people at now?" comments:

Just because you aren't aware of it on your preferred "mainstream media source" doesn't mean that it isn't happen. It just means that the people who run those news organizations don't see anymore value on covering it.

I guarantee that if you live in or near a decently large city, there are still a bunch of minority ran organizations still trying to tackle community issues. They may not be connected to the "Marxist" HQ of BLM, but I they are there and functioning.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 6, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A point I'd like to make about all the "where's all the BLM people at now?" comments:
> 
> Just because you aren't aware of it on your preferred "mainstream media source" doesn't mean that it isn't happen. It just means that the people who run those news organizations don't see anymore value on covering it.
> 
> I guarantee that if you live in or near a decently large city, there are still a bunch of minority ran organizations still trying to tackle community issues. They may not be connected to the "Marxist" HQ of BLM, but I they are there and functioning.


If the media doesn't see any value in covering it, is there any value left to the movement? My point was they went so hard in the paint, then one day it was over like the problems were no more. Just like in 2016. And we're not talking about other minority run organizations, we're talking about BLM actual.

And to the NRA comment above, ain't nobody care about the NRA these days. They're clowns and I would say the majority of gun owners would like to see them gone and replaced.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 6, 2020)

lindy said:


> Winner, winner, smoked turkey dinner!!!



Cross thread points awarded!


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> This country has a pretty shitty history of killing black people when they try to do community projects
> 
> In 1969, charismatic Black Panthers leader Fred Hampton was killed in a hail of gunfire. 50 years later, the fight against police brutality continues
> 
> ...


Race relations in 2020 are nothing like they were coming out of the Jim Crow era.


----------



## Brill (Dec 6, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A point I'd like to make about all the "where's all the BLM people at now?" comments:
> 
> Just because you aren't aware of it on your preferred "mainstream media source" doesn't mean that it isn't happen. It just means that the people who run those news organizations don't see anymore value on covering it.
> 
> I guarantee that if you live in or near a decently large city, there are still a bunch of minority ran organizations still trying to tackle community issues. They may not be connected to the "Marxist" HQ of BLM, but I they are there and functioning.


Like what?  Seriously, there is the chance to influence or inform.

I'm more curious where the money has gone.  Same feeling when I see my HOA statement and see 80% of the money goes to running the HOA.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 6, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> If the media doesn't see any value in covering it, is there any value left to the movement?


I'm pretty sure that sentiment right there is one of the exact criticisms being made: The inherent 'value' of any movement or the lives it is highlighting isn't defined by the media (despite the media serving a functional role in trying to tell people what to care about) , and it shouldn't take that degree of civil unrest or number of lives lost for a society and its leaders to suddenly start caring, much less having nation-wide discussions like this one in the first place.

But it did, and it's remains in the public consciousness well after people removed from more vocal areas began asking, "Where are they now?"


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 6, 2020)

[/QUOTE]





Cookie_ said:


> Or banning weapons when black people start carrying arms.
> 
> The NRA Supported Gun Control When the Black Panthers Had the Weapons



For being the history channel, that article is missing so much context.  Colion Noir did a great video on that.  The Black Panthers basically just followed every Oakland Patrol car, whilst armed for months on end.  Even interfered with police work.  What got the Mulford Act passed with the overwhelming majority was the Black Panthers showing up to the State Capital with firearms. 

This video has been posted at least once on the board, it came out after that Chappelle set.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 7, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> This country has a pretty shitty history of killing black people when they try to do community projects
> 
> In 1969, charismatic Black Panthers leader Fred Hampton was killed in a hail of gunfire. 50 years later, the fight against police brutality continues
> 
> ...


He was the leader of a criminal/terrorist organization.
I am saying this as someone who lived in Cook County/Chicago from birth to college.


----------



## Brill (Dec 7, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I'm pretty sure that sentiment right there is one of the exact criticisms being made: The inherent 'value' of any movement or the lives it is highlighting isn't defined by the media (despite the media serving a functional role in trying to tell people what to care about) , and it shouldn't take that degree of civil unrest or number of lives lost for a society and its leaders to suddenly start caring, much less having nation-wide discussions like this one in the first place.
> 
> But it did, and it's remains in the public consciousness well after people removed from more vocal areas began asking, "Where are they now?"


Ah, no. I was lectured...at work...that my aloof attitude about BLM was because I was a bad person and I didn’t care about human life.

As a result of my retort “If this (BLM movement) is about human life, why isn’t there a movement highlighting that black men are dying at the hands of other black men*?”, the federal employees repeatedly labeled me a “racist and bigot” for citing data. 

*per CDC, the leading cause of death for young black males is homicide. Per UCR, the overwhelming number of victims of murder are black men attacked by other black men.

The “discussion” NEVER involves black women abortion rates OR death from drug overdose, poverty, etc but MUST remain focused on cops killing unarmed blacks. Yet what does the data show??? More unarmed whites were killed by cops than blacks. <— Racist, yes, I know...hear it all the time. The “problem“ is IDGAF which names I’m called. Liberals burned that after 4 years of deplorable crap.

The criticism of the BLM movement is its all based on a false narrative (aka...a lie) in order to grab power or money which begets power.

This is what they want



This pisses them off when We don’t comply


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 7, 2020)

Best part of my being im my wheelchair, nobody in the protests ever bothers me. It's the parting of the Red Sea when I roll through their gatherings.

It's quite entertaining.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> Ah, no. I was lectured...at work...that my aloof attitude about BLM was because I was a bad person and I didn’t care about human life.


"I don't. Have you seen what I can do with a pocket translator book and a radio?"


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> Ah, no. I was lectured...at work...that my aloof attitude about BLM was because I was a bad person and I didn’t care about human life.


It sounds like they chose an inappropriate time and place (work during work hours) to tell you what they felt about something that didn't directly relate to your project.


lindy said:


> As a result of my retort “If this (BLM movement) is about human life, why isn’t there a movement highlighting that black men are dying at the hands of other black men*?”, the federal employees repeatedly labeled me a “racist and bigot” for citing data.


If it occurred as read, that sounds highly inappropriate and grounds for an HR complaint, at minimum.

Based on earlier posts you've made (which were pretty fun to read for your retorts), it seems like your work culture doesn't discourage these kinds of interactions.  I've always found that to prevent the social inclusivity that is preached in HR trainings, mainly because the only times those interactions doesn't cause unnecessary friction is when the people engaging in those discussions are singing on the same scale.


lindy said:


> *per CDC, the leading cause of death for young black males is homicide. Per UCR, the overwhelming number of victims of murder are black men attacked by other black men.
> 
> The “discussion” NEVER involves black women abortion rates OR death from drug overdose, poverty, etc but MUST remain focused on cops killing unarmed blacks.


Yes, their focus is on the practices of people in legally mandated positions of authority against a huge subsection of the populace that earned the right to vote only 55 years ago due to mass civil unrest of the sort you are witnessing this year.

This doesn't absolve any of the statistics you mentioned, just as much as those statistics don't dissolve the problem they've highlighted.


lindy said:


> Yet what does the data show??? More unarmed whites were killed by cops than blacks. <— Racist, yes, I know...hear it all the time.


Well, there are many more of them to kill than black people, and it is folly to call that statistic racist.  They might have decided that your citing it as a counterpoint to their statement was fueled by racism, but it doesn't sound like you're talking with people who are interested in focusing on those facts.


lindy said:


> The “problem“ is IDGAF which names I’m called. Liberals burned that after 4 years of deplorable crap.


How about 'shipmate'? 


lindy said:


> The criticism of the BLM movement is its all based on a false narrative (aka...a lie) in order to grab power or money which begets power.


What lie do you feel is causing millions of people to mobilize?


lindy said:


> This is what they want
> 
> View attachment 37326
> 
> This pisses them off when We don’t comply


In other words, there is mounting social pressure to perform a certain way in public or risk getting socially targeted or ostracized and having your dinner interrupted?

Well, thank goodness we live in a society where it is inherently patriotic to have the mental resolve to behave as one wishes in spite of mounting social pressure to do otherwise, so long as it is lawful.

People who want to break the law to obstruct your right to do as you lawfully please are more than welcome to justify that reasoning to a judge.


----------



## Brill (Dec 7, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> It sounds like they chose an inappropriate time and place (work during work hours) to tell you what they felt about something that didn't directly relate to your project.
> 
> If it occurred as read, that sounds highly inappropriate and grounds for an HR complaint, at minimum.


The best part: this was our Diversity, Equality, and Inclusive folks.



Locksteady said:


> Based on earlier posts you've made (which were pretty fun to read for your retorts), it seems like your work culture doesn't discourage these kinds of interactions.  I've always found that to prevent the social inclusivity that is preached in HR trainings, mainly because the only times those interactions doesn't cause unnecessary friction is when the people engaging in those discussions are singing on the same scale.


Yes, they want to lecture on the morality that resistance to anti-racism is bad and anyone who espouses such ideology is a bad person.  But when I state "I believe that man was made in the image of God and due to my "deeply held religious beliefs that form my morals", (key language from Title VII of the '64 Civil Rights Act) I believe that judging a person because of their skin color is morally wrong." I get crickets.



Locksteady said:


> Yes, their focus is on the practices of people in legally mandated positions of authority against a huge subsection of the populace that earned the right to vote only 55 years ago due to mass civil unrest of the sort you are witnessing this year.
> 
> This doesn't absolve any of the statistics you mentioned, just as much as those statistics don't dissolve the problem they've highlighted.
> 
> Well, there are many more of them to kill than black people, and it is folly to call that statistic racist.  They might have decided that your citing it as a counterpoint to their statement was fueled by racism, but it doesn't sound like you're talking with people who are interested in focusing on those facts.


I believe the inner city inhabitants NEED police protection to keep the wolves at bay.  I've read stats where suburban white liberals overwhelming support defunding police but inner city residents overwhelmingly want MORE police.  As I mentioned, our DEI wants to lecture employees, both white and black, about race.



Locksteady said:


> What lie do you feel is causing millions of people to mobilize?


That white cops are killing black people at very high rates and the black lives matter.  Human life has intrinsic value and if black lives do matter, why isn't there a national movement to kick the gangs in the teeth...like OPERATION LEGEND.


Locksteady said:


> In other words, there is mounting social pressure to perform a certain way in public or risk getting socially targeted or ostracized and having your dinner interrupted?


I don't personally care what people do or what social pressure they try to exert.  My problem is that the liberals do not respond well to "If you want me to kneel or hold up the power fist, you're going to have to MAKE ME. Yep, you're going to have to throw me off a building, put me into an orange jump suit and do what you gotta do but I will not.  So now what?"


Locksteady said:


> Well, thank goodness we live in a society where it is inherently patriotic to have the mental resolve to behave as one wishes in spite of mounting social pressure to do otherwise, so long as it is lawful.


I'm not sure about that anymore. I think we have hamlets of patriots but American society overall, I dunno. I'm waiting to see some evidence.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 7, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Yes, their focus is on the practices of people in legally mandated positions of authority against a huge subsection of the populace that earned the right to vote only 55 years ago due to mass civil unrest of the sort you are witnessing this year.
> 
> Well, there are many more of them to kill than black people, and it is folly to call that statistic racist.  They might have decided that your citing it as a counterpoint to their statement was fueled by racism, but it doesn't sound like you're talking with people who are interested in focusing on those facts.



1. To be clear, Black Men received the right to vote in 1869 with the ratification of the 15th Amendment.  Black Women received their right to vote along with white women in 1919 with the 19th Amendment.  This isn't to say the path was unencumbered with obstacles in many states which were held hog tied by pretty racist state governments.  But those rights were conferred in 1869 and 1919.  The Civil Rights Act only made it illegal to further discriminate.

2.  The FBI Crime data bears out.  Minority Race officers are more likely than white officers to be involved in an officer-involved-shooting.  A disproportionate amount of unarmed white people get shot per year by law enforcement, but we don't hear about them, ever.  Even though it bleeds it doesn't lead. If every officer involved shooting in this country received the same coverage that the Jacob Blake shooting got (which was clean as fuck) we'd be in a completely different place.



lindy said:


> I believe the inner city inhabitants NEED police protection to keep the wolves at bay.  I've read stats where suburban white liberals overwhelming support defunding police but inner city residents overwhelmingly want MORE police.  As I mentioned, our DEI wants to lecture employees, both white and black, about race.



Al Sharpton calls them: "The Latte Liberals".


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> 1. To be clear, Black Men received the right to vote in 1869 with the ratification of the 15th Amendment.  Black Women received their right to vote along with white women in 1919 with the 19th Amendment.  *This isn't to say the path was unencumbered with obstacles in many states which were held hog tied by pretty racist state governments.*


To be clear, and to reiterate the thrust of my previous point, that comprised a huge subsection of the populace.


ThunderHorse said:


> 2.  The FBI Crime data bears out.  Minority Race officers are more likely than white officers to be involved in an officer-involved-shooting.


What point in my post is this supposed to rebut?


lindy said:


> The best part: this was our Diversity, Equality, and Inclusive folks.


In an informal setting, I presume?  POTUS was quite clear on removing training of this sort on the grounds of divisiveness.


lindy said:


> Yes, they want to lecture on the morality that resistance to anti-racism is bad and anyone who espouses such ideology is a bad person.  But when I state "I believe that man was made in the image of God and due to my "deeply held religious beliefs that form my morals", (key language from Title VII of the '64 Civil Rights Act) I believe that judging a person because of their skin color is morally wrong." I get crickets.


I think you are indeed engaging in a battle that is functionally religious.


lindy said:


> As I mentioned, our DEI wants to lecture employees, both white and black, about race.


As long as they don't break POTUS' cease and desist order by trying to mandate it, it shouldn't be bothering you unless you let it. (not to let that stop you from engaging with them; it makes for great stories here!)


lindy said:


> That white cops are killing black people at very high rates and the black lives matter.  Human life has intrinsic value and if black lives do matter, why isn't there a national movement to kick the gangs in the teeth...like OPERATION LEGEND.


You sort of answered your own question there.  The difference is that it has taken mass civil unrest and repeated laymen's video evidence to get local and national leaders to begin even seriously looking at the issue of police brutality - much less launch a sustained federal-level operation to address it.


lindy said:


> I don't personally care what people do or what social pressure they try to exert.  My problem is that the liberals do not respond well to "If you want me to kneel or hold up the power fist, you're going to have to MAKE ME. Yep, you're going to have to throw me off a building, put me into an orange jump suit and do what you gotta do but I will not.  So now what?"


Unless they're breaking a law in the process of not responding well, I'm not sure exactly what you would be caring about that isn't social pressure?

(They called you shipmate.  I knew it!)   


lindy said:


> I'm not sure about that anymore. I think we have hamlets of patriots but American society overall, I dunno. I'm waiting to see some evidence.


Of course; the caveat is that behaving as you wish is rarely considered patriotic by those who don't approve of what you are doing (or not doing).


----------



## Brill (Dec 7, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> In an informal setting, I presume?  POTUS was quite clear on removing training of this sort on the grounds of divisiveness.


This was soon after the death of George Floyd when our executives rushed to voice support for BLM and before the EO.  Oddly, our DEI folks purged ALL refs to CRT, DeAngelo's and Kendi's writings almost as if they feared legal repercussion or something.



Locksteady said:


> I think you are indeed engaging in a battle that is functionally religious.
> 
> As long as they don't break POTUS' cease and desist order by trying to mandate it, it shouldn't be bothering you unless you let it. (not to let that stop you from engaging with them; it makes for great stories here!)


There is a massive culture war going on inside the USG but the liberal ideologues are winning.  A writer can post something unoffensive but it can be taken offensively just to file a complaint, which will trigger removal. Liberals are very much aware and use this to their advantage.  The only thing that bothers me is that our social media reads just like Strozk/Page texts but without the overt conservative refs.  The latest "innovation" is our version of a social credit score.  Shockingly mine is zero because I purged all my stuff.  I wrote up some really detailed AARs with maps, ambush points, intel reports, etc that set the stage of various events so employees could actually see what our military folks go through.  Initially they were very well received until I came out anti-BLM, anti-antiracist, and anti-COVID panic.  



Locksteady said:


> You sort of answered your own question there.  The difference is that it has taken mass civil unrest and repeated laymen's video evidence to get local and national leaders to begin even seriously looking at the issue of police brutality - much less launch a sustained federal-level operation to address it.


Imagine if there was a very well funded group community-centric group that could fill the power vacuum after a local gang was dismantled.  Which group benefited from the mass social unrest?  Wasn't the people who lived in those burned out areas in Kenosha or St. Paul, MN.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> This was soon after the death of George Floyd when our executives rushed to voice support for BLM and before the EO.  Oddly, our DEI folks purged ALL refs to CRT, DeAngelo's and Kendi's writings almost as if they feared legal repercussion or something.


That is very odd, especially considering that there was next to no warning distributed even days before OMB pushed it out.


lindy said:


> There is a massive culture war going on inside the USG but the liberal ideologues are winning.  A writer can post something unoffensive but it can be taken offensively just to file a complaint, which will trigger removal. Liberals are very much aware and use this to their advantage.  The only thing that bothers me is that our social media reads just like Strozk/Page texts but without the overt conservative refs.  *The latest "innovation" is our version of a social credit score.*  Shockingly mine is zero because I purged all my stuff.


Now this is interesting.  Is it optional, or do all employees have to have a social media presence on that platform?  I could so easily see this being abused, a la Black Mirror.


lindy said:


> I wrote up some really detailed AARs with maps, ambush points, intel reports, etc that set the stage of various events so employees could actually see what our military folks go through.  Initially they were very well received until I came out anti-BLM, anti-antiracist, and anti-COVID panic.


The order you did that in was smart, if at least to give them a moment's pause before trying something stupid. 


lindy said:


> Imagine if there was a very well funded group community-centric group that could fill the power vacuum after a local gang was dismantled.  Which group benefited from the mass social unrest?  Wasn't the people who lived in those burned out areas in Kenosha or St. Paul, MN.


I'm open to hearing more about your thoughts on this, assuming it doesn't veer us too far from the topic.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Dec 8, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> This country has a pretty shitty history of killing black people when they try to do community projects
> 
> In 1969, charismatic Black Panthers leader Fred Hampton was killed in a hail of gunfire. 50 years later, the fight against police brutality continues
> 
> ...


You are insinuating that the reason BLM does not provide aid to poor minority communities is because they are afraid of being assassinated?

What does the NRA or factions thereof supporting a gun control bill in CA during the 1970s have to do with BLM today, or any of the other "rights" movements that scream injustice yet provide nothing at all in the way of actual progress?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 10, 2020)

Update on the McCloskey Case: Ain't that some shit!

St. Louis judge disqualifies Gardner, her office from prosecuting gun-waving case



> A judge on Thursday cited improper fundraising emails by Circuit Attorney Kimberly M. Gardner's campaign in disqualifying Gardner and her office from a gun case against Mark McCloskey, who with his wife pointed firearms at protesters outside their Central West End home in June.
> 
> Circuit Judge Thomas Clark II's order said two fundraising emails that Gardner's reelection campaign sent in response to political attacks before and after she charged Mark and Patricia McCloskey with felony gun crimes in July raised the appearance that she "initiated a criminal prosecution for political purposes."
> 
> ...



I didn't know this, what disgusting creature.  These charges should not have been brought at all.


----------



## Dame (Dec 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Update on the McCloskey Case: Ain't that some shit!
> 
> St. Louis judge disqualifies Gardner, her office from prosecuting gun-waving case
> 
> ...


Yeah, heard about this when she did it. I wish there were some way to actually show folks like this what it is they are doing simply won't fly _before_ they do it. 

Oh wait, that's called law school. Nevermind.


----------



## Brill (Dec 12, 2020)

Dame said:


> Yeah, heard about this when she did it. I wish there were some way to actually show folks like this what it is they are doing simply won't fly _before_ they do it.


They believe in the Woo Woo.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

Y'all knew this was coming, right?  It was just a matter of time...
(and I checked, it's not April Fools Day, just regular fools day)

San Francisco district to rename school named after Abraham Lincoln



> A San Francisco district is planning to rename a school named after Abraham Lincoln because the former president did not demonstrate that 'black lives mattered to him'.
> 
> The president, who is often held up as an American hero for abolishing slavery, is just one of 44 historical figures soon to have their names scratched off schools within the San Francisco Unified School District.


----------



## AWP (Dec 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Y'all knew this was coming, right?  It was just a matter of time...
> (and I checked, it's not April Fools Day, just regular fools day)
> 
> San Francisco district to rename school named after Abraham Lincoln



This makes no sense. He suspended the Constitution, I thought that would make him bulletproof with Democrats.

Ooh, bad choice of words.


----------



## Brill (Dec 16, 2020)

AWP said:


> This makes no sense. He suspended the Constitution, I thought that would make him bulletproof with Democrats.
> 
> Ooh, bad choice of words.


He had a quill pen but no phone.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 17, 2020)

This was proposed for Minneapolis as well but the City Council declined as it's still too oppressive:
Seattle Announces Reverse Purge Where One Night A Year Laws Will Be Enforced


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 17, 2020)

So folks, Portlandia.  Tom Cotton was correct and so was the POTUS.  That place is a hellhole.  The people are getting exactly what they deserve though.  They are the ones who voted for these politicians.  They love drugs.  Clearly love people in all black squatting and intimidating their neighbors.

New Autonomous Zone, by the way.  The Police raided this house, and as stated in the article the snake of a DA dropped all charges and released the terrorists back into the wild. 

Portland lets Antifa win big — again

Some neighbors near Portland 'Red House' say situation still tense

Probably general crime here, but Portland's violent crime and homicide rate is skyrocketing, I wonder why?

16-year-old dies after being shot during rolling gun battle in SE Portland

Man killed in North Lombard shooting is Portland's 50th homicide victim of 2020


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Probably general crime here, but Portland's violent crime and homicide rate is skyrocketing,


I’ll see your Portland, and raise you Minneapolis…

Minneapolis violence surges as police officers leave department in droves

Carjackings in Minneapolis up 537% last month: report


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ll see your Portland, and raise you Minneapolis…
> 
> Minneapolis violence surges as police officers leave department in droves
> 
> Carjackings in Minneapolis up 537% last month: report



I thought they wanted Wild West where there wasn't even a town Marshall?  Thousands of shipped on protestors and looters destroyed the city, and now the people are reaping what was sewn by outsiders and politicians that dare not serve their electorate.  Clearly all of them lack balls and lady balls.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 21, 2020)

Generally, I don't think this has anything to do with race.  But the Oregon Legislature was entering a special session this week.  Many Oregonians were not pleased that the legislature would be closed to them and they protested.  They were barred entry due to COVID-19 protocols.  But a couple thousand people weren't taking shit and they got in.  Many news outlets are calling them "right wing".  Most of these people's politics wouldn't match up with conservatives from the South btw.  A better description would probably be "Rural Oregonians" flood State Capital to protest COVID-19 restricts.

Oregon State Police declare unlawful assembly after right-wing group tries to storm Capitol


----------



## Gunz (Dec 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ll see your Portland, and raise you Minneapolis…
> 
> Minneapolis violence surges as police officers leave department in droves
> 
> Carjackings in Minneapolis up 537% last month: report



From the first article:

"_Most of the violence has happened since Floyd’s killing on Memorial Day, and *some experts *attribute it in part to the lingering anger over the slaying and the effects of the coronavirus..."_

Such bullshit. The thugs are not killing each other over George Floyd or COVID or job loss...They’re killing each other for the same stupid reasons they’ve been killing each other for decades. Somebody owes somebody money and won’t pay up; somebody’s got dope and cash; somebody shows up wearing blue at a party where everybody’s wearing red; somebody wants another dude’s wheel rims; somebody’s tapping some other dude’s bitch; somebody wants to pull a lick and get street cred at the same time so caps somebody; somebody from A street trespasses on B street; somebody disrespected somebody else and on and on...and nobody wants to admit the truth that black lives don’t matter to black thugs in the hood where street law is the only law that matters and gangs rule through intimidation and murder and the good decent people are scared shitless to talk to the cops for fear of retaliation.


----------



## BloodStripe (Dec 28, 2020)

lindy said:


> That was my point: the entire DC metro area was in fear and the media profited off that fear. Remember the shock when they were arrested in that truck parking area on I-70 in a large blue sedan while news helicopters followed white box trucks around the beltway?
> 
> Separately, at least nobody is advocating defunding police now.



Burning cities down that cause actual lose to buildings good. Bombing cities that cause no structural damage and give warning to evacuate bad. Glad to know where the line is drawn.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2020)

This should be received well....

Justice Department declines to charge officers in Tamir Rice case


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 29, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This should be received well....
> 
> Justice Department declines to charge officers in Tamir Rice case



Jesus, the reasoning for why they determined they couldn't prosecute is going to cause riots alone.



> In this case, the Justice Department said poor-quality surveillance video recorded in the area where the shooting took place prevented prosecutors from being able to conclusively determine whether Rice was or was not reaching for his toy gun just prior to being shot.* The two officers who were investigated told authorities soon after the shooting that Rice was reaching for his toy weapon prior to being shot and was given multiple commands to show his hands.*



The bolded is fucking bullshit, plain and simple. Those cops rolled up and shot that kid like they were the LSPD from GTA V and the kid had a 5 star wanted level.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 29, 2020)

As a local cop...I hate seeing this kind of bullshit that happened above.

Spike Lee is releasing a movie called American Skin...watch the trailer...I get what he is doing...but do you think it's going to encourage some shootings on cops? Probably.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> As a local cop...I hate seeing this kind of bullshit that happened above.
> 
> Spike Lee is releasing a movie called American Skin...watch the trailer...I get what he is doing...but do you think it's going to encourage some shootings on cops? Probably.....


What's the purpose of publishing movies that basically just race bait? 

________

Two officers involved in the Breonna Taylor shooting have received pre-termination notices.  The Officer whom obtained the warrant and the officer whom has been charged in the case for negligently firing his weapon.

Louisville police move to fire two detectives involved in Breonna Taylor raid


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Well… Standby to standby.

Officer involved shooting in Minneapolis, sounds like it was during a traffic stop and the officer may have shot/killed the driver. 

Officers are attempting to cordon off the scene but “people” are beginning to flood the area.

Sounds like it is very close to where George Floyd was killed.

This is the Twitter page I follow most often for up-to-date information.

@CrimeWatchMpls


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 30, 2020)

well, shit.......


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well… Standby to standby.
> 
> Officer involved shooting in Minneapolis, sounds like it was during a traffic stop and the officer may have shot/killed the driver.
> 
> ...



Hopefully a legit shoot.

If not...well '21 is going to start off poorly. Especially given the location.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 30, 2020)

Many won't wait to see if it's legit or not if they are looking for a reason to riot. Legitimate people won't riot until the legitimacy of the action is determined. Thugs and criminals...not so much!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 30, 2020)

Just reading twitter...

This sounds fucking bad. Godspeed @Blizzard @Ooh-Rah !


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

ugh.  

Minneapolis police shoot, kill man during traffic stop


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Live -


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ugh.
> 
> Minneapolis police shoot, kill man during traffic stop



Pay wall.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Pay wall.





Spoiler: Text



A man was shot and killed by Minneapolis police during a traffic stop Wednesday night.
The incident occurred during a felony traffic stop at around 7 p.m. at the Holiday gas station at 36th Street and S. Cedar Avenue.

Late Wednesday, Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said the man fired first at police. A bullet hole was spotted in a squad at the scene. Police spokesman John Elder said the man shot was believed to be a felony suspect.
Elder did not say how many shots were fired or how many officers were involved.
The incident was captured on body camera and no officers were injured, Elder said. The officers involved were members of the Community Response Team (CRT), a specialized unit focused on high-crime areas, drugs and prostitution.
"Those officers have all been isolated and they're waiting to be interviewed" by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, he said.
According to emergency dispatch audio, an officer radioed immediately after the shooting: "Shots fired, officer needs help."
"We have two people inside the vehicle, one male is down, we still have one female in the car with her hands up," the officer said.
"We need perimeter, we need perimeter!" an officer said, keeping Cedar clear for medics. They called for no more squads in the parking lot of a Holiday gas station, blocking entrances except for emergency crews. Officers were advised to keep their body cameras turned on.
A crowd of about 50 gathered at the scene about an hour after the shooting while roads remained closed and yellow crime-scene tape surrounded the area. The crowd began demanding more information and shouting at police.

It was the first police killing in Minneapolis since the May 25 death of George Floyd by four since-fired Minneapolis police officers, which spurred widespread unrest and rioting in Minneapolis and protests across the city. The fatal shooting comes at a time when city leaders are debating how to change policing and public safety following Floyd's death. As they do that, they have been struggling to balance competing demands, some from people who want them to abolish the department, and others from people who are asking for more officers as they struggle to reduce crime during an especially violent year.
Shortly after Floyd's death, a majority of City Council members promised to work toward "ending" the Minneapolis Police Department, though they had varying ideas on how to do that. In the months since, they have cut roughly $9 million from the police department's budget, often by moving the money to other city services, such as violence prevention programs. They could choose to offset some of those cuts next year as they debate key issues, such as whether to approve additional recruit classes meant to help amid an officer shortage or to release funding for officers' overtime.
Staff writer Liz Navratil contributed to this report


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 31, 2020)

One of the things I've seen regarding police reform I most agree with is the idea of a community council that is allowed to review footage of shootings with senior members of the PD.  
The theory is that these influential community members (religious leaders, activists, etc) would be able to relay the perceived accuracy of the incident report, hopefully reducing the amount of people who'd be out protesting/rioting.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> One of the things I've seen regarding police reform I most agree with is the idea of a community council that is allowed to review footage of shootings with senior members of the PD.
> The theory is that these influential community members (religious leaders, activists, etc) would be able to relay the perceived accuracy of the incident report, hopefully reducing the amount of people who'd be out protesting/rioting.


Interesting.  Do you think that would make a difference to the people who are out doing the rioting?  I kind of doubt it.


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Interesting.  Do you think that would make a difference to the people who are out doing the rioting?  I kind of doubt it.



Riots/looting/protest only result from real incidents.

Latest Chicago and Minneapolis riots broke out over police killings that never happened


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 31, 2020)

Today will be interesting, for the most part things have calmEd down.
Speculative reasoning is:

-  it is cold

- It has pretty much been confirmed the bad guy shot first.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> One of the things I've seen regarding police reform I most agree with is the idea of a community council that is allowed to review footage of shootings with senior members of the PD.
> The theory is that these influential community members (religious leaders, activists, etc) would be able to relay the perceived accuracy of the incident report, hopefully reducing the amount of people who'd be out protesting/rioting.


Those types of boards/councils could work if it was only concerning protestors as those are generally peaceful.

The main problem is that these current instances are only acting as the catalyst to riot rather than fix a perceived wrong by protesting. 

As someone who wore a badge for 30 years and worked more than 30 or so OIS, I found that many had rioters on site before the victim was even moved from the scene. It's a mentality that wants to commit crimes and not one that wants to serve as an action for "justice". Until that mindset changes, nothing will get better.


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

Sohei said:


> Those types of boards/councils could work if it was only concerning protestors as those are generally peaceful.
> 
> The main problem is that these current instances are only acting as the catalyst to riot rather than fix a perceived wrong by protesting.
> 
> As someone who wore a badge for 30 years and worked more than 30 or so OIS, I found that many had rioters on site before the victim was even moved from the scene. It's a mentality that wants to commit crimes and not one that wants to serve as an action for "justice". Until that mindset changes, nothing will get better.



We already have a system of justice. The activists want EXTRAJUDICIAL actions based on their views of right vs wrong. In other words, they want vigilante ”justice“ but labeled as “social justice“.

Sure that may work in liberal areas but then again, maybe not? 



> Two teenage girls missing since Sunday afternoon have been found according to their family (one according to the police department, see update) and a house that a crowd believed to be connected to their disappearance has been burned.



Suspected Sex Trafficking House Burned


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 31, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> One of the things I've seen regarding police reform I most agree with is the idea of a community council that is allowed to review footage of shootings with senior members of the PD.
> The theory is that these influential community members (religious leaders, activists, etc) would be able to relay the perceived accuracy of the incident report, hopefully reducing the amount of people who'd be out protesting/rioting.


I think it would also be beneficial for that civilian committee to undergo some type of police training to better understand the situation the cop was in.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think it would also be beneficial for that civilian committee to undergo some type of police training to better understand the situation the cop was in.


It's amazing to me that more civilian leadership doesn't take advantage of ride-along programs. I have even seen departments that don't have those programs allow their civilian leaders the opportunity to ride with them and see LE's interactions with the public. It could be of great benefit, but is rarely exercised.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 31, 2020)

Sohei said:


> It's amazing to me that more civilian leadership doesn't take advantage of ride-along programs. I have even seen departments that don't have those programs allow their civilian leaders the opportunity to ride with them and see LE's interactions with the public. It could be of great benefit, but is rarely exercised.


I wouldn't be surprised if that information isn't widely known. If a program exists it's up to the organizations to broadcast it and inform the public. Positive interactions will only receive more support. Gotta sell it for it to happen.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if that information isn't wildly known. If a program exists it's up to the organizations to broadcast it and inform the public. Positive interactions will only receive more support. Gotta sell it for it to happen.


Indeed. I use to invite individuals to ride with me during the weekend night shifts since those were the most active shifts and would give people the most bang for their time invested. Many times I invited Pastors since they are generally a trusted source by large groups of the population. Other times I would invite leadership from various groups with influence throughout the area. Some did it...some didn't, but I always felt that those that did walked away from the experience with a different outlook on LE as a whole.


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> If a program exists it's up to the organizations to broadcast it and inform the public. Positive interactions will only receive more support. Gotta sell it for it to happen.


COPS and Live PD were cancelled as was Adam-12 before that.








Damn hippies playing their rock & roll music on their record players at full volume.  Gosh darn it and dad blast it!


----------



## Gunz (Dec 31, 2020)

lindy said:


> COPS and Live PD were cancelled as was Adam-12 before that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's because they're tripping on maryjane.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2020)

I didn't know how much of a bag of ass LA County elected to the DA's office.  But I had heard things.  But this is a big one.  His entire prosecutor force is moving to open rebellion.  Things like bail reform only lead to more crime, you will not be able to convince me otherwise.  Literally all of his policies will create more crime.

LA Prosecutors Union Challenge DA Gascon’s Sweeping Policy Changes


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 31, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think it would also be beneficial for that civilian committee to undergo some type of police training to better understand the situation the cop was in.


This is an excellent idea.

I also think that this and a predetermined number of the ride-alongs @Sohei mentioned should, at a bare minimum, be prerequisites for any non-LEO professionals in jurisdictions that are considering more integrated responses to certain 911 calls to have before being permitted to augment police responses to them.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 31, 2020)

Citizen Police Academy's....the CPA's have been really good...we get all kinds and it opens their eyes to the day in and day out work we do.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2020)

Ride-a-long changed my perspective when it comes to day to day life of a LEO. Most PDs in AZ have the programs, and generally no elected official cares to use them, there's one asshole city councilman in Phoenix proper that just hates cops, the Chief has invited him numerous times and he just won't go.


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 31, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Interesting.  Do you think that would make a difference to the people who are out doing the rioting?  I kind of doubt it.


I think it would make a difference for the people who don't trust the police narrative, would go to a site to protest, and become either a standby or active participant to a riot.

I agree with what @Sohei said, in that you will always have some bad actors finding anyway to start problems. I also understand that mob mentality is a lot easier to influence the larger and more volatile the crowd is.

The idea from a LE positive standpoint is that community review councils would help to limit the influence of these bad actors by reducing the number of people in the streets.

The idea from a community activism standpoint is that it would help prevent false narratives and attempted coverup by PDs.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well… Standby to standby.
> 
> Officer involved shooting in Minneapolis, sounds like it was during a traffic stop and the officer may have shot/killed the driver.
> 
> ...


Police bodycam video embedded within news article.

After watching; especially the ‘slow mo’, it appears the driver shot at the cops from within the car....with the window still closed.  Fortunate for the officers, but I’ll bet that echoed in the car a bit!

Bodycam footage of fatal Minneapolis police shooting released


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Police bodycam video embedded within news article.
> 
> After watching; especially the ‘slow mo’, it appears the driver shot at the cops from within the car....with the window still closed.  Fortunate for the officers, but I’ll bet that echoed in the car a bit!
> 
> Bodycam footage of fatal Minneapolis police shooting released



So, after re-watching on a different site because videos didn't come up on that link for me, so no slow mo .  There appears to already be a damaged window before the officer begins firing.

Police release bodycam footage of fatal south Minneapolis shooting

__________

Different subject: 25 years in prison for airsoft guns?

Forest Hills Woman Hit With Weapon Charge Over Fake Guns: Report


----------



## Dame (Dec 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Ride-a-long changed my perspective when it comes to day to day life of a LEO. Most PDs in AZ have the programs, and generally no elected official cares to use them, there's one asshole city councilman in Phoenix proper that just hates cops, the Chief has invited him numerous times and he just won't go.


His opinions should be annotated with that fact in the city council meeting minutes. Ignorance (especially of a willful variety) is more dangerous than even poverty and want.  "Beware the boy."
Lessons From A Christmas Carol: Ignorance and Want


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2021)

So, after Four Years of Terror in Portlandia perpetuated by Antifa.  The Mayor and the Multinomah County Sheriff finally want to protect their citizens?  Are there recall election petitions circulating?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345231349679054848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345246510385139719


----------



## Grunt (Jan 2, 2021)

Nothing like a strongly worded email and/or news conference to get those desired results....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 3, 2021)

I remember seeing Abbott tweeting in response to some Austin defunding police stuff.  But here's one of the latest things that came out in response to Dallas.  

Memo Outlining New Dallas Police Directive to Not Respond to Some Calls Released, Quickly Rescinded


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345499697977417731
On the legislative agenda for the State of Texas is defunding municipalities that defund their law enforcement agencies.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 3, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, after Four Years of Terror in Portlandia perpetuated by Antifa.  The Mayor and the Multinomah County Sheriff finally want to protect their citizens?  Are there recall election petitions circulating?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345231349679054848
> ...


 4 years of terror?

Uhh, the only thing I'm scared about in Portland is when I have to play Frogger for reals on the highways.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 3, 2021)

Ranger Psych said:


> 4 years of terror?
> 
> Uhh, the only thing I'm scared about in Portland is when I have to play Frogger for reals on the highways.



Generally speaking the first Autonomous Zone occurred in Portland and it lasted 6 months.  There's plenty of other incidents to talk about in that place that could have been easily stopped in between then and now but the limp pols decided to not stand erect.

ETA: yes I was being a smidge hyperbolic.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 3, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> I remember seeing Abbott tweeting in response to some Austin defunding police stuff.  But here's one of the latest things that came out in response to Dallas.
> 
> Memo Outlining New Dallas Police Directive to Not Respond to Some Calls Released, Quickly Rescinded
> 
> ...



Gov. Abbot has been doing a pretty damn good job. Trying to keep businesses going and light govt restrictions.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 4, 2021)

Ooh/Rah, you only dislike Ilhan Omar because she is Muslim, admit it!

No...I dislike Ilhan Omar because she wants to live in a country where teaching your children “Fuck the Police” is considered good parenting. (See necklace)

I do not want to live in such a country.

Omar posts picture of daughter wearing 'f-- the police' necklace


----------



## Brill (Jan 4, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ooh/Rah, you only dislike Ilhan Omar because she is Muslim, admit it!
> 
> No...I dislike Ilhan Omar because she wants to live in a country where teaching your children “Fuck the Police” is considered good parenting. (See necklace)
> 
> ...


It’s not THAT bad is it????


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346142068670922753


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 4, 2021)

lindy said:


> It’s not THAT bad is it????
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346142068670922753


Welcome to Minneapolis, MN.


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 4, 2021)

lindy said:


> It’s not THAT bad is it????
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346142068670922753


Gas is up to $2.19 per gallon now?  When did that happen? Shit.


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 4, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Welcome to Minneapolis, MN.


Serious question, have you thought about moving? I'd say everyone has a threshold for the amount of shit they're willing to put up with. I know I hit mine and left LA to move back to AZ. Just curious if you've established that threshold. Nobody deserves to be in that scenario when they didn't ask for it.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 4, 2021)

Ranger Psych said:


> 4 years of terror?
> 
> Uhh, the only thing I'm scared about in Portland is when I have to play Frogger for reals on the highways.



Well well, look at you...


----------



## Brill (Jan 4, 2021)

I support the all security forces (except for the NSD of DOJ)

Not really sure what teacher’s unions do though.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 4, 2021)

Blizzard said:


> Gas is up to $2.19 per gallon now?  When did that happen? Shit.


I wish it was only $2.19 here...


----------



## digrar (Jan 4, 2021)

US $3.25 a gallon down here...


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 4, 2021)

digrar said:


> US $3.25 a gallon down here...


Yeah, but you guys have nicer cars.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 4, 2021)

$2.05, fluctuates between about 2.15 and 1.90.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 4, 2021)

digrar said:


> US $3.25 a gallon down here...



Pretty similar conversion here now.  Any where from $0.99-$1.29/litre.


----------



## chickenrappa (Jan 5, 2021)

Blizzard said:


> Gas is up to $2.19 per gallon now?  When did that happen? Shit.


and here I was at the gas station after work stopping to fill my truck up at $2.19 a gallon because I thought it was a steal, because all the other stations are up to about $2.45 a gallon. But I always remember the good old days when gas was close to $4 a gallon. It could be worse fellas. *knocks on wood*


----------



## Brill (Jan 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Pretty similar conversion here now.  Any where from $0.99-$1.29/litre.



Is that in Canadian dollars too?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 5, 2021)

The Officers involved in the shooting of Jacob Blake will not be charged.  That's the correct decision.

Prosecutor Announces No Charges Will Be Filed Against Officer Who Shot Jacob Blake


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Pretty similar conversion here now.  Any where from $0.99-$1.29/litre.



What is this litre you speak of...as a vassal state, you use gallons, silly man 😉🤣😎


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 5, 2021)

lindy said:


> Is that in Canadian dollars too?



Yup.  As for gallons, are we talking milk?


----------



## frostyred (Jan 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Yup.  As for gallons, are we talking milk?


As long as it's not in bags.


----------



## digrar (Jan 6, 2021)

Kaldak said:


> What is this litre you speak of...as a vassal state, you use gallons, silly man 😉🤣😎



Gabriel Mouton thought to himself, that whole mm, cm, m, km 1, 10, 100, 1000 thing worked a treat. I'll make a litre a 10cm by 10cm by 10cm cube, and I'll make a ml a thousandth of that. It'll be piss easy, even the kids will have it mastered by the time they've hit their first decimal.  

But then we have the gallon, 10 different Brit versions, the eventual imperial version, a US dry one and a wet one. One is 10 pounds of water at 62 degrees F, because, why the fuck not? Same the US gallon, lets make it 128 fluid ounces, because someone was born on the 28th of January, no doubt... What's a fluid ounce? Imperial, or US, 1/20th of an Imperial pint, or 1/16th of a colonial one... Just making shit up as they went along, the only thing in the country that holds fluid is that old wine barrel from the Mayflower. It shall be the basis for all volume calculations from this point onward... 
 Fuckers would have got to the moon in 1960 if the German scientists didn't have to translate all of their metric calculations into gibberish...


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 6, 2021)

Question for the group. 

Can a minority commit a "hate crime" against someone of the same, or similar, minority?


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 6, 2021)

digrar said:


> Gabriel Mouton thought to himself, that whole mm, cm, m, km 1, 10, 100, 1000 thing worked a treat. I'll make a litre a 10cm by 10cm by 10cm cube, and I'll make a ml a thousandth of that. It'll be piss easy, even the kids will have it mastered by the time they've hit their first decimal.
> 
> But then we have the gallon, 10 different Brit versions, the eventual imperial version, a US dry one and a wet one. One is 10 pounds of water at 62 degrees F, because, why the fuck not? Same the US gallon, lets make it 128 fluid ounces, because someone was born on the 28th of January, no doubt... What's a fluid ounce? Imperial, or US, 1/20th of an Imperial pint, or 1/16th of a colonial one... Just making shit up as they went along, the only thing in the country that holds fluid is that old wine barrel from the Mayflower. It shall be the basis for all volume calculations from this point onward...
> Fuckers would have got to the moon in 1960 if the German scientists didn't have to translate all of their metric calculations into gibberish...





We would have got to the moon in 1960 if we didn't have German scientists standing in our way....


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Can a minority commit a "hate crime" against someone of the same, or similar, minority?



Answering my own question.. apparently hate crime is pretty much any crime that can show actual or perceived bias against _*race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status, personal appearance, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, family responsibility, homelessness, physical disability, matriculation, or political affiliation.*_

Relevant statute for where I was looking at.
D.C. Law Library - § 22–3701. Definitions.


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Can a minority commit a "hate crime" against someone of the same, or similar, minority?


All depends on what they identify as.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Answering my own question.. apparently hate crime is pretty much any crime that can show actual or perceived bias against _race, color, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status, personal appearance, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, family responsibility, homelessness, physical disability, *matriculation,* or political affiliation._
> 
> Relevant statute for where I was looking at.
> D.C. Law Library - § 22–3701. Definitions.


Does the word "matriculation" have a different dictionary definition?  Because I thought that meant 'where someone went to school.'  So that's a "hate crime" now?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Can a minority commit a "hate crime" against someone of the same, or similar, minority?



Yes. There are multiple protected classes. Race is only one of them. 

Protected Classes: Race, Religion, Sex, National Origin, Age, Disability, and Genetic Information, at the Federal Level. 

Some other states expand this under Sex to include Trans-gendered people. 

So, for instance, say an Jewish guy committed a crime against another Jewish guy who was over 40.  Boom, could be a hate crime.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 6, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Does the word "matriculation" have a different dictionary definition?  Because I thought that meant 'where someone went to school.'  So that's a "hate crime" now?



From all other references across other statutes, it does indeed mean that.

Basically.. if you were wearing a Yale sweatshirt.. and someone beat you up on street.. you could argue that it was a hate crime.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 6, 2021)

Truthfully, at the end of the day, a hate crime is what the prosecutor says it is and decides to prosecute said crime as....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> From all other references across other statutes, it does indeed mean that.
> 
> Basically.. if you were wearing a Yale sweatshirt.. and someone beat you up on street.. you could argue that it was a hate crime.


err, nvm.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 6, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Matriculation means National Origin.  Blessed are the woke who run DC, for they shall inherit a burned out earth.
> 
> *Change the language so it no longer means what it was supposed to mean.


I think national origin is already covered in what @Florida173 posted, though.

I'm guessing matriculation includes where you were educated and maybe your education level (whether or not you matriculated to anywhere to begin with), too.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 6, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> I think national origin is already covered in what @Florida173 posted, though.
> 
> I'm guessing matriculation includes where you were educated and maybe your education level (whether or not you matriculated from anywhere to begin with), too.


Ah you're right, I didn't see that since the DC statute he referenced has like 15 protected classes.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> From all other references across other statutes, it does indeed mean that.
> 
> Basically.. if you were wearing a Yale sweatshirt.. and someone beat you up on street.. you could argue that it was a hate crime.


Well let's be honest I'd probably deserve it :)


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2021)

This whole thing is ridiculous.  "Equal protection under the law" seems to me that there should be no "protected classes."  We're all either protected equally, or we're not.  It seems to me that every violent crime has some element of "hate" to it, there doesn't need to be any special enhancement, IMO.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 6, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> This whole thing is ridiculous.  "Equal protection under the law" seems to me that there should be no "protected classes."  We're all either protected equally, or we're not.  It seems to me that every violent crime has some element of "hate" to it, there doesn't need to be any special enhancement, IMO.



It almost seems unconstitutional: you are basically getting punished twice for the same crime.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2021)

More reading about "matriculation:"

https://ohr.dc.gov/sites/default/fi... Enforcement guidance - PersonalApp_92517.pdf


----------



## compforce (Jan 6, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> This whole thing is ridiculous.  "Equal protection under the law" seems to me that there should be no "protected classes."  We're all either protected equally, or we're not.  It seems to me that every violent crime has some element of "hate" to it, there doesn't need to be any special enhancement, IMO.


Hate Crime Laws - YouTube

I'm not sure why these aren't embedding any longer...


----------



## AWP (Jan 6, 2021)

So...would every barroom brawl between sister services be a hate crime? You probably wouldn't start throwing 'bows if they weren't Marines, you know?


----------



## Grunt (Jan 6, 2021)

That is simply a law to make someone feel more *special* than someone else and cause an ever greater rift between people than what already exists. Hate crimes was one of the worst pieces of legislation to ever be created in my lifetime. We - as Americans - are our absolute worst enemies when it comes to creating our own *issues.*


----------



## 757 (Jan 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346660619676745732
significant.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2021)

compforce said:


> Hate Crime Laws - YouTube
> 
> I'm not sure why these aren't embedding any longer...


That was brilliant.


----------



## compforce (Jan 6, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> That was brilliant.


The whole episode was brilliant.  Your post was almost a perfect summary of their speech


----------



## 757 (Jan 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346882751182475273


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

757 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346660619676745732
> significant.





757 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346882751182475273


Look's like little Lisa needs braces. Too bad the common American is pissed. 

It's beautiful...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346879996502155265


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 6, 2021)

This is live now - storming the Capitol






One of the last live streams still going on this


----------



## Rapid (Jan 6, 2021)

In the face of a Banana Republic-tier election system, I am not surprised that American conservatives have had enough. I suppose it's now or never, that time to be "mostly peaceful".


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 6, 2021)

Rapid said:


> In the face of a Banana Republic-tier election system, I am not surprised that *American conservatives have had enough. *I suppose it's now or never, that time to be "mostly peaceful".



Our election system heavily favors the conservatives on the federal level. 

These are the types of people most afraid of a "1984" style government, but would happily support a facist authoritarian leader if he says what the want.

These aren't people who support freedom or American ideals anymore than the Marxists BLM members they hate.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 6, 2021)

Cookie_ said:


> Our election system heavily favors the conservatives on the federal level.
> 
> These are the types of people most afraid of a "1984" style government, but would happily support a facist authoritarian leader if he says what the want.
> 
> *These aren't people who support freedom or American ideals anymore than the Marxists BLM members they hate.*



Are you really sure about that?  I mean, _really_ sure?

I know a guy, works in IT at NC State Univ, who is there.  He is as milquetoast as it gets.  I see him snapping a la Michael Douglas in _Falling Down_.  He honestly believes the DNC has orchestrated a bloodless coup in this election.  He thinks there is zero for redress with the government.  Six months ago he was politically in the middle.

Scary times.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 6, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Are you really sure about that?  I mean, _really_ sure?
> 
> I know a guy, works in IT at NC State Univ, who is there.  He is as milquetoast as it gets.  I see him snapping a la Michael Douglas in _Falling Down_.  He honestly believes the DNC has orchestrated a bloodless coup in this election.  He thinks there is zero for redress with the government.  Six months ago he was politically in the middle.
> 
> Scary times.



I stand by my statement. That sounds like a person who never actually had any political philosophy himself, but was just a member of a team. 
He feels his team was cheated, and he wants to do something about it.

I don't think it's more prone on one side or the other, but it is a big problem in America that politics is more akin to violent clashes between soccer clubs.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 6, 2021)

Cookie_ said:


> I stand by my statement. That sounds like a person who never actually had any political philosophy himself, but was just a member of a team.
> He feels his team was cheated, and he wants to do something about it.
> 
> I don't think it's more prone on one side or the other, but it is a big problem in America that politics is more akin to violent clashes between soccer clubs.



I respect that.  I think I used to feel more like that.  I feel...less like that.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 6, 2021)

Interesting (but foolish, giving out his PII while admitting to a crime) testimonial from an eyewitness to the Capitol shooting.

Surprisingly collected, too, even though you can tell he is still a bit shaken.


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 6, 2021)

Bro, did he just say they had flash bangs and tear gas? WTF. Doesn’t sound like they planned a peaceful protest at all.


----------



## AWP (Jan 6, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Interesting (but foolish, giving out his PII while admitting to a crime) testimonial from an eyewitness to the Capitol shooting.
> 
> Surprisingly collected, too, even though you can tell he is still a bit shaken.



That idiot needs to go to jail along with...whoever else was involved.

Jersey, that guy is an honorary Florida Man for that video. Send him to Lauderdale, they could use his insight.


----------



## Brill (Jan 6, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Can a minority commit a "hate crime" against someone of the same, or similar, minority?


Sure, why not?

Defining a Hate Crime​A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, the FBI has defined a hate crime as a “*criminal offense* against a person or property *motivated* in whole or in part *by an offender’s bias* against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

Hate Crimes | Federal Bureau of Investigation


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 6, 2021)

lindy said:


> Sure, why not?
> 
> Defining a Hate Crime​A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, the FBI has defined a hate crime as a “*criminal offense* against a person or property *motivated* in whole or in part *by an offender’s bias* against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.
> 
> Hate Crimes | Federal Bureau of Investigation


Just ask this guy:


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

AWP said:


> That idiot needs to go to jail along with...whoever else was involved.
> 
> Jersey, that guy is an honorary Florida Man for that video. Send him to Lauderdale, they could use his insight.


Kid is a patriot and any state that lays claim to him should be proud.


----------



## digrar (Jan 6, 2021)

TYW27 said:


> Bro, did he just say they had flash bangs and tear gas? WTF. Doesn’t sound like they planned a peaceful protest at all.



I thought he said they went through flash bangs and tear gas.


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 6, 2021)

digrar said:


> I thought he said they went through flash bangs and tear gas.


That’s what I hoped he was saying. I’ll have to relisten

EDIT - I listened again, he said through tear gas and flash bangs. It’s more likely that came from the Capital Police/Secret Service but then there’s a lot of talk on Twitter about how this is Antifa trying to stir stuff up blaming the MAGA crowd. At this point I don’t really care


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 6, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Kid is a patriot and any state that lays claim to him should be proud.


I think a lot of people are thinking that we are living back under some type of Monarchy oppressive rule like our forefathers had before the birth of this nation.

The people who stormed the Capital are referring to a revolution. This ain’t it.

There may actually come a time when we will need to take up arms against a truly oppressive government or foreign nation. But until that happens I’m going to keep working hard and take care of my wife and kids and stay away from extreme, trendy, sensationalized news/politics/social media.

Call me when there’s a war worth fighting for. Not this garbage.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

TYW27 said:


> I think a lot of people are thinking that we are living back under some type of Monarchy oppressive rule like our forefathers had before the birth of this nation.
> 
> The people who stormed the Capital are referring to a revolution. This ain’t it.
> 
> ...


Your very freedom and that of your friends and loved ones is at stake. Not sure if you were here, but earlier this year in the all politics thread we covered liberal politicians wanting "lists" of Trump supporters.

Couple the above with the Covid Concentration/Detention Camp laws passed in NY and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Also, our forefathers stormed the capitol over grievances like "taxation without representation". How represented do you feel when places like Pakistan are getting millions and DC politicians are lining their pockets with your taxes?


----------



## RetPara (Jan 6, 2021)

PIcs attached of probable ANTIFA.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 6, 2021)

RetPara said:


> PIcs attached of probable ANTIFA.


That tattoo is from a video game called Dishonored

Outsider's Mark

As for the American flag face painted viking dude; we did have anti-BLM people at protests too. I don't think "here's a photo someone took of a dude at a thing, with mo context!" is really all that reliable.

ETA: Literally seen after I posted


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 6, 2021)

RetPara said:


> PIcs attached of probable ANTIFA.


Yeah I saw those.


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 6, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Your very freedom and that of your friends and loved ones is at stake. Not sure if you were here, but earlier this year in the all politics thread we covered liberal politicians wanting "lists" of Trump supporters.
> 
> Couple the above with the Covid Concentration/Detention Camp laws passed in NY and you've got a recipe for disaster.
> 
> Also, our forefathers stormed the capitol over grievances like "taxation without representation". How represented do you feel when places like Pakistan are getting millions and DC politicians are lining their pockets with your taxes?



I disagree. My freedoms are not at stake yet. Which is my point. I understand there is a time to go to war with an enemy that is threatening my family and I with violence and evil. And when that day comes I’m fully prepared to do what it takes. But I don’t believe now is that time.

Our forefathers lived in a much different time from our own. I believe that our political system is broken but we still have checks and balances. Even Trump (who I supported over Hilary) with his big Ego and his hunger for power was held in check by members of Congress and even at times the Media. Are we closer to being oppressed than before? Maybe, but we aren’t there yet, and fueling fear over that slippery slope is nothing but alarmism (if that’s even a word).

I’ll be honest, I didn’t vote this year. I’ve lost faith in our election process. Of all the people who could have been elected we got Trump and Hillary the last election. Now we have Joe Biden and Trump this past election. In my opinion I think we should move away from a strict two-party system. We need better options.

like I said, call me when there’s a real war to fight and I’m there.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

TYW27 said:


> I disagree. *My freedoms are not at stake yet*. Which is my point. I understand there is a time to go to war with an enemy that is threatening my family and I with violence and evil. And when that day comes I’m fully prepared to do what it takes. But I don’t believe now is that time.
> 
> Our forefathers lived in a much different time from our own. I believe that our political system is broken but we still have checks and balances. Even Trump (who I supported over Hilary) with his big Ego and his hunger for power was held in check by members of Congress and even at times the Media. Are we closer to being oppressed than before? Maybe, but we aren’t there yet, and fueling fear over that slippery slope is nothing but alarmism (if that’s even a word).
> 
> ...


But they already are. We've been under constant information warfare for the past few months. Elections have been stolen and our public has been lied to. If the most powerful man in the world has been silenced by a tech giant, how much better do you think you'll fare?

Hell, look at the people who've lost their homes, businesses, and livelihoods. How free did they feel when bureaucrats passed draconian edicts against them? How far did their voices carry before they were forced into economic ruin?

The war is here and has always been here, only the intensity of it has changed. We've been like frogs in a pot, only now the heat has noticeably increased.


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 6, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> But they already are. We've been under constant information warfare for the past few months. Elections have been stolen and our public has been lied to. If the most powerful man in the world has been silenced by a tech giant, how much better do you think you'll fare?
> 
> Hell, look at the people who've lost their homes, businesses, and livelihoods. How free did they feel when bureaucrats passed draconian edicts against them? How far did their voices carry before they were forced into economic ruin?
> 
> The war is here and has always been here, only the intensity of it has changed. We've been like frogs in a pot, only now the heat has noticeably increased.



I happen to know a little about information warfare and even though I do see how Social Media is being weaponized and used to further wedge Americans into two camps; I don’t see how you could compare this to how the British oppressed the Colonists. I mean that’s like trying to compare the Capital storming to Pearl Harbor. Not even same ballpark.

I will agree that there is almost certainly information warfare going on but there are more than just one party or person at the table. And so far people have lost businesses to riots and losing money because of COVID so I don’t see that as an organized Government deep state.  I could get woke and try to figure out which group is doing what, but I’ll just wait until the real oppression sets in


----------



## frostyred (Jan 6, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> But they already are. We've been under constant information warfare for the past few months. Elections have been stolen and our public has been lied to. If the most powerful man in the world has been silenced by a tech giant, how much better do you think you'll fare?
> 
> Hell, look at the people who've lost their homes, businesses, and livelihoods. How free did they feel when bureaucrats passed draconian edicts against them? How far did their voices carry before they were forced into economic ruin?
> 
> The war is here and has always been here, only the intensity of it has changed. We've been like frogs in a pot, only now the heat has noticeably increased.



The fact that you seem to think our process is not working exactly as it should (albeit to a HORRID extreme right now) and that you seem to believe that our freedoms are being taken away anywhere near the level of, well, take your pick of authoritarian states suggests your scope of what the world is like is being seen through a very narrow lens. We (the American population) have been under informational assault from both the inside and outside for far longer than a few months, heavily via external influence campaigns (due to the impossibly complex interweaving and interconnections of the modern Internet) and internal power-hungry individuals who aim to do better only for themselves and not their fellow American. Around half of the country has forgotten we're all family, and fight against/amongst themselves, and the other half is just plain tired of the stupid.

The vast differences in socioeconomic class, living conditions based on where you make your home, disparity between education, and a million other things cause us to see each other as enemies instead of countrymen. And as of late, late being the last 5-8 years minimum, large patches of leadership (on both sides) have utterly shit the bed on breaking down barriers and reminding us that we're all the same. 

The "most powerful man in the world" hasn't been silenced, he's been put on a timeout from using a single social media platform for a short amount of time. This is the same as if he was banned from posting on 4chan for a day. Until legislation passes that A) Internet access is a universal, constitutional right, and then B) the Internet becomes owned by the public, and not by private companies providing a service that you pay for with vague ToS and your lack of concern for your own data privacy, this won't be changing anytime soon.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

frostyred said:


> The fact that you seem to think our process is not working exactly as it should (albeit to a HORRID extreme right now) and that you seem to believe that our freedoms are being taken away anywhere near the level of, well, take your pick of authoritarian states suggests your scope of what the world is like is being seen through a very narrow lens. We (the American population) have been under informational assault from both the inside and outside for far longer than a few months, heavily via external influence campaigns (due to the impossibly complex interweaving and interconnections of the modern Internet) and internal power-hungry individuals who aim to do better only for themselves and not their fellow American. Around half of the country has forgotten we're all family, and fight against/amongst themselves, and the other half is just plain tired of the stupid.
> 
> The vast differences in socioeconomic class, living conditions based on where you make your home, disparity between education, and a million other things cause us to see each other as enemies instead of countrymen. And as of late, late being the last 5-8 years minimum, large patches of leadership (on both sides) have utterly shit the bed on breaking down barriers and reminding us that we're all the same.
> 
> The "most powerful man in the world" hasn't been silenced, he's been put on a timeout from using a single social media platform for a short amount of time. This is the same as if he was banned from posting on 4chan for a day. Until legislation passes that A) Internet access is a universal, constitutional right, and then B) the Internet becomes owned by the public, and not by private companies providing a service that you pay for with vague ToS and your lack of concern for your own data privacy, this won't be changing anytime soon.


Dude... I'm an ex grunt and hobby anthropologist. Please go easy on the word storm.

Also, I've been saying that the nation has been under an dis/mis info attack for years now... and it's gotten me called a conspiracy theorist. But yeah, I totally agree we've been under assault for longer than a few months. 

As for the process not working, we've literally seen an election stolen right before our eyes and our political class won't do anything about it. At this point the social contract has been broken. If our votes don't matter, our elected officials are silenced, and our wealth & freedoms are stripped from us, what do you expect is going to happen? 

Freedom and free men are a scary thing yo.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 7, 2021)

TYW27 said:


> I happen to know a little about information warfare and even though I do see how Social Media is being weaponized and used to further wedge Americans into two camps; *I don’t see how you could compare this to how the British oppressed the Colonists*. I mean that’s like trying to compare the Capital storming to Pearl Harbor. Not even same ballpark.
> 
> I will agree that there is almost certainly information warfare going on but there are more than just one party or person at the table. *And so far people have lost businesses to riots and losing money because of COVID* so I don’t see that as an organized Government deep state.  I could get woke and try to figure out which group is doing what, but I’ll just wait until the real oppression sets in


Dude, Congress just sent your tax money (on a credit card) to Pakistan for 'gender studies'. Same with a bunch of other countries. Taxation without representation was kind of a big deal for the founding fathers.

Also, GOV edicts killed those small businesses. Covid and the fear it generated was the excuse used to bring them to their knees.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 7, 2021)

We get taxation with representation with an asterisk.  We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.

Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 7, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> We get taxation with representation with an asterisk.  We do via voting, but as we know it's binary, and although we vote we get no say in anything regarding taxation.
> 
> Bringing this back to cops, the actions of the capitol police sure didn't do anything to ensure trust, but based on the video, it looks like many of the others exercised enormous restraint on the grounds based on the way some of those morons were acting.


You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 7, 2021)

frostyred said:


> You mean the police exercised restraint? I'd agree, especially because I think the assumption was that far more protestors were armed than were arrested for carrying.



Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.  

I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop.  With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters.  If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 7, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Yeah, after the crowds were booted from the capitol and everyone was outside, some of the video showed some up-close-and-personal jackasses getting into the cops' grills, and the LEOs weren't engaging, and in my opinion, showed pretty good restraint.
> 
> I was a state-certified LEO once (I had to be to be a medic on a LE SWAT team), but never a 'real' cop.  With my desire to rapidly pepper spray, tase, or asp some knees anyone who annoys me, I would not have made a good street cop: I would have escalated things quickly with booger-eaters.  If I was at the capitol last night, I know that I would not have the same restraint.


Yeah. MPD has its problems, for sure, but throughout the protests all this year, I think they've generally showed a decent amount of restraint. I went and biked around in May, keeping my distance and observing, and it was really, really intriguing to see how it was all going.


----------



## RetPara (Jan 7, 2021)

Video of shooting.  IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347056697899163648


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 7, 2021)

RetPara said:


> Video of shooting.  IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347056697899163648



Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.


----------



## Brill (Jan 7, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yeah, he better be going away, for a very long time.


One round fired is curious. I’m sure there was very conflicted inner dialogue.


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 7, 2021)

RetPara said:


> Video of shooting.  IMO there is going to be a Capitol PD LEO up on charges or there will be one hell of a lawsuit over this.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347056697899163648


New admin will push it under the rug.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 7, 2021)




----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 7, 2021)

I think it’s going to be a tough defense, considering there were so many armed officers directly behind her, and clearly they didn’t see a need to shoot despite being on the same side of the door as the “threat”


----------



## AWP (Jan 7, 2021)

I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.

I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 7, 2021)

AWP said:


> I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.
> 
> I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.



Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 7, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> Have you ever been taught to lunge towards someone you were shooting? The guy took aim for about 5 seconds and then lunged forward.



Fell maybe?


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 7, 2021)

IMHO, inexperienced and stressed....was pointing the pistol at the "perceived" threat...the barricaded doors themselves. When the victim starting over the barricade, freaked and shot.

but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 7, 2021)

I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 7, 2021)

AWP said:


> I think we're overlooking something: did the officer act within the constraints of his department's policies? The guy who kneeled on George Foreman or whoever's neck in MN was following dept. procedure.
> 
> I was kind of incensed at the shooting, but would like to know if the officer was within the law. Not common sense, not our bias, not some Twitter videos, not our own LEO/ Mil background...but the law as it applies to this case.



From looking at the video....I can't see where using deadly force would be warranted. Physical force, or less lethal, yep.

Unless there was a pistol/knife/club in her hand that we didn't see and "disappeared" after she fell. I have only seen that one vid and can't tell.

EDIT: I would be curious what ROE's USCP might have.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 7, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> I mean weapon safety rule number two is never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.


 heh, apparently true in this situation....


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 8, 2021)

Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.

It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (_now_ I'm sounding naive!).


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 8, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.
> 
> It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (_now_ I'm sounding naive!).


What a nice read.  I love how s/he described to a tee the rioting patterns that I have personnally witnessed occurring between individual people (testing with minor acts of carnage) and other onlookers (following suit after seeing at least one other person do it first) during demonstrations.

This line summed up the article for me: "No civic order can be breached until the ambitious few have broken a few windows."


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 8, 2021)

My favorite bit/definition:

Entrepreneurial rioting:



> Haddock and Poisby describe the individuals who go about testing the desire of the crowds _riot entrepreneurs:_
> 
> 
> > Even in an unstable gathering, the first perpetrator of a misdemeanor is at risk if the police are willing and able to zero in on him. Thus, someone has to serve as a catalyst—a sort of entrepreneur to get things going—in Buford’s account usually by breaking a window (a signal that can be heard by many who do not see it). In civil rights, anti-war or anti-abortion marches, it is probably pretty common to find participants eager to expose themselves to arrest in exchange for the chance to optimize the desired impact of their protest. This sort of self-sacrifice is certainly rare in ordinary riots, where potential rioters’ behavior is consistent, we suppose, with something like the following calculation: “If somebody else gets the riot started, I can participate without much risk. But if I stick my neck out and nobody follows, I’ll be the only one arrested. So I’ll wait for somebody else to go first.” If every would-be rioter reasoned thus, nobody would cast the first stone, and the riot would not ignite. This is a typical free-rider problem, as economists have called it. It is usually sufficient to prevent riots from occurring, even where there is a plentiful supply of disposed participants. Riots await events that surmount the free rider problem. The entrepreneur will throw the first stone when he calculates that the risk that he will be apprehended for doing so has diminished to an acceptable level.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 8, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> My favorite bit/definition:
> 
> Entrepreneurial rioting:


Exactly!  And you see this play out in other social settings, too.

It's the rioting equivalent to being the first person to bust a move on the dance floor after the music has started.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Exactly!  And you see this play out in other social settings, too.
> 
> It's the rioting equivalent to being the first person to bust a move on the dance floor after the music has started.


Fuck, empirical evidence as to why I'm the best person at parties


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 8, 2021)

Did I miss this from the news cycle?

CRICKETS: Portland Antifa Attacks Local Police Precinct Before Vandalizing Local Businesses


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 10, 2021)

Well shit.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348305408696446976
Also, I guess Antifa in Portlandia planned something last night but Police Intel was good.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348302416484175875


----------



## Brill (Jan 10, 2021)

But I thought Jack was banning anyone who incited or otherwise advocated violence?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 10, 2021)

Roh roh...you are not supposed to call your that!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348070252731633665


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 10, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Roh roh...you are not supposed to call your that!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348070252731633665



I must not be educated socially enough, but what am I missing here?


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 10, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> I must not be educated socially enough, but what am I missing here?


Either called himself, or the ball, a “faggot” when he missed the putt.

You have to listen close because he mutters it under his breath.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 10, 2021)

JedisonsDad said:


> Either called himself, or the ball, a “faggot” when he missed the putt.
> 
> You have to listen close because he mutters it under his breath.



Explains it, was listening in an open area with a lot of background noise


----------



## Brill (Jan 10, 2021)

JedisonsDad said:


> Either called himself, or the ball, a “faggot” when he missed the putt.
> 
> You have to listen close because he mutters it under his breath.



Someone should call the course manager! He also wasn’t wearing a mask!


----------



## CQB (Jan 10, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.
> 
> It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (_now_ I'm sounding naive!).


Interesting article & the rebellious few who lead the way is food for thought with the idea of the few who urge the disorganised rabble. This ignores Antifa & how well organised they were in 2019 recently. The Hong Kong protesters were similarly well organised, though their aim was different.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 10, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> Here's an interesting article that examines riots as a group coordination problem.
> 
> It would be pretty nice if we could generally strip away the 'moral' (tribal) valence from our discussions of these kinds of things so that we can actually examine the underlying processes, then improve our systems (_now_ I'm sounding naive!).



I have to say that the BLM/Antifa riots are really impressive with they are able to mass on "targets" in multiple locations across the country.  Something conservative groups can barely do on one "target".


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 12, 2021)

Remember the lone baton-wielding officer backing away up the stairs from an approaching mob that vastly outnumbered him?



In the original video, he appeared exactly as an officer getting overwhelmed by a mob that kept pushing, until this article indicated that he had *deliberately incited the mob to pursue him *by pushing the guy in front, repeatedly, to get him and the rest of the mob to follow him *away* from the Senate chambers leading the other direction.

A very ballsy and well-executed spur-of-the-moment crowd manipulation.

Capitol Police officer being hailed as a hero for drawing angry mob away from Senate floor


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 12, 2021)

Good MT.  Excellent at drawing and holding aggro


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 12, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Good MT.  Excellent at drawing and holding aggro


I hate that I know what this means, and I hate you for rubbing my face in it.  

disclaimer: This is a joke, I don't hate anyone here on SS.  I love even our resident heterodoxers, all of whom know who they are.  Disclaimer for the drivebys, for whom this might not be obvious.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 12, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Good MT.  Excellent at drawing and holding aggro




Should have seen the Hunter try and claim the helm with +20 strength all because it had +2 stamina compared to his current piece after the raid was over. The discord was _lit_.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 14, 2021)

PERMISSIBLE AND PROHIBITED CONDUCT RELATED TO PUBLIC DEMONSTRATIONS > United States Marine Corps Flagship > Messages Display

Good reminder to all in uniform what is allowed and not allowed.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

"De-Militarize the Police, they shouldn't have armored vehicles." They said

"Yeah BOI, they arrested a Proud Boy!"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349436708132151300
Also, what is a "Military-Style Knife"?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349510513227685888


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 14, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> "De-Militarize the Police, they shouldn't have armored vehicles." They said
> 
> "Yeah BOI, they arrested a Proud Boy!"
> 
> ...


I assume a military style knife is either the famous “us knife” from SERE or the BFK bolt knife. 

Oh, or maybe one of those sweet Spyder Co knock offs with a branch insignia etched into it somewhere.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 14, 2021)

JedisonsDad said:


> I assume a military style knife is either the famous “us knife” from SERE or the BFK bolt knife.
> 
> Oh, or maybe one of those sweet Spyder Co knock offs with a branch insignia etched into it somewhere.



Maybe he had a Swiss Army Knife.


----------



## AWP (Jan 14, 2021)

So a military knife is deadlier than a kitchen knife? I hope I'm stabbed with the less lethal knife...


----------



## compforce (Jan 14, 2021)

Umm wait a second...   He only had 1000 rounds of rifle ammo and 24 shotgun shells?  Boy, wait until they raid some of the people I know.

Laughed really hard at this comment



Yup, pretty much...  Looking around me I have 6 knives in plain sight from my chair without turning around and looking at the other side of the desk.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jan 14, 2021)

AWP said:


> So a military knife is deadlier than a kitchen knife? I hope I'm stabbed with the less lethal knife...


Careful what you wish for...


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> Umm wait a second...   He only had 1000 rounds of rifle ammo and 24 shotgun shells?  Boy, wait until they raid some of the people I know.
> 
> Laughed really hard at this comment
> 
> ...


Reminds me of this video


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 14, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> "De-Militarize the Police, they shouldn't have armored vehicles." They said
> 
> "Yeah BOI, they arrested a Proud Boy!"
> 
> ...


1,000 rounds of ammo? Probably the big surprise in this story is that he was able to acquire 1,000 rounds these days.

Seriously, when the Gestapo comes for me, I'm going to make huge headlines if  this is the baseline - unless I visit the range again between now and then.

When I moved a few years ago, I remember saying, I hope we don't get stopped and asked to search our vehicle because if asked if had and knives, swords, guns, hand grenades in the vehicle, I would've been like oooooh yeah...tons! (except for the hand grenades)....   unfortunately, they were all lost during that same move.


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> Umm wait a second...   He only had 1000 rounds of rifle ammo and 24 shotgun shells?  Boy, wait until they raid some of the people I know.
> 
> Laughed really hard at this comment
> 
> ...


Haha.  I just said pretty much the same thing.


----------



## AWP (Jan 14, 2021)

If 1000 rounds is scandalous then my house is JFK's mattress.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> Umm wait a second...   He only had 1000 rounds of rifle ammo and 24 shotgun shells?  Boy, wait until they raid some of the people I know.
> 
> Laughed really hard at this comment
> 
> ...


It's really not a lot of ammo. But whatevs.


----------



## compforce (Jan 14, 2021)

No way this could go wrong  

National Guard at Capitol Authorized to Use Lethal Force in Aftermath of Mob | National News | US News


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> No way this could go wrong
> 
> National Guard at Capitol Authorized to Use Lethal Force in Aftermath of Mob | National News | US News


China is sitting down right now with a bowl of popcorn.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> No way this could go wrong
> 
> National Guard at Capitol Authorized to Use Lethal Force in Aftermath of Mob | National News | US News



When Ash Carter, the Democratic Technocrat ran the DoD, he did very little to protect the inauguration.  Yes, I know, there was a protest and riot that breached Capitol Security.  But, hey, seems like this Republican led DoD by an acting Secretary that people decried and called a Trump loyalist so that he could somehow seize power, is taking this seriously.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> No way this could go wrong
> 
> National Guard at Capitol Authorized to Use Lethal Force in Aftermath of Mob | National News | US News






Spoiler: sigh....


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 14, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> "De-Militarize the Police, they shouldn't have armored vehicles." They said
> 
> "Yeah BOI, they arrested a Proud Boy!"
> 
> ...



OK.  75 knives is a LOT of knives, military-style or not.  I might have that many if I count up everything in the garage and in the kitchen.  But I definitely don't have that many "military" knives.

But people are making a big deal out of 1,000 rounds of ammo?


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 14, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> OK.  75 knives is a LOT of knives, military-style or not.  I might have that many if I count up everything in the garage and in the kitchen.  But I definitely don't have that many "military" knives.
> 
> But people are making a big deal out of 1,000 rounds of ammo?
> 
> View attachment 38374


I'm thinking they were counting some black handled butter knives in the kitch drawer as well.


----------



## compforce (Jan 14, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> OK.  75 knives is a LOT of knives, military-style or not.



Hard disagree.  I'm not a knife guy but I guarantee there are at least 30 non-kitchen knives in my house from ones I collected over the years.


----------



## Brill (Jan 14, 2021)

Blizzard said:


> I'm thinking they were counting some black handled butter knives in the kitch drawer as well.


The family was preparing for a reunion.

https://www.staples.com/Staples-Hea...c-White-100-Box-27363-BPR22124/product_511514


----------



## Steve1839 (Jan 14, 2021)

compforce said:


> ...but I guarantee there are at least 30 non-kitchen knives in my house from ones I collected over the years.


There are at least five or six within reach right now...I'm probably good for two dozen, if I counted judiciously...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

I'm more of a hatchet/tomahawk guy myself.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 14, 2021)

75 knives is well into “knife guy” territory


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 14, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> OK.  75 knives is a LOT of knives, military-style or not.  I might have that many if I count up everything in the garage and in the kitchen.  But I definitely don't have that many "military" knives.
> 
> But people are making a big deal out of 1,000 rounds of ammo?
> 
> View attachment 38374





Marauder06 said:


> OK.  75 knives is a LOT of knives, military-style or not.  I might have that many if I count up everything in the garage and in the kitchen.  But I definitely don't have that many "military" knives.
> 
> But people are making a big deal out of 1,000 rounds of ammo?
> 
> View attachment 38374


Hard dislike.
Guys a knife collector, so what?
My oldest gets 2-3 custom knives every year, no different then someone with an extensive firearms collection.


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 14, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Hard dislike.
> Guys a knife collector, so what?
> My oldest gets 2-3 custom knives every year, no different then someone with an extensive firearms collection.



75 knives, 75 firearms, 75 fancy lighters, 75 anything costing 200$+...to me at least, that's a lot of something.

Nothing wrong with it, as long as legal. Still, I call it a lot.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

I have over 3x75 of this one thing.  But most of them were less than 200.  If anyone wants to come to PHX and break bread and drink for free.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 14, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Hard dislike.
> Guys a knife collector, so what?
> My oldest gets 2-3 custom knives every year, no different then someone with an extensive firearms collection.


I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.  I just observed that it is a lot of knives.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 15, 2021)

Cookie_ said:


> Reminds me of this video



Everyone bitches till you mouthbreathers can't figure out how to rub metal on rock right to make dully sharp.

Or we're bored at a range and now we're not bored because Mr. 3 knife profile broke said profile and now everyone can practice throwing knives.

Or you get to play space invaders in the hallway with a blowgun and privates.

Or...


----------



## AWP (Jan 15, 2021)

Ranger Psych said:


> Or you get to play space invaders in the hallway with a blowgun and privates.



I missed my calling in life, that much is clear.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 15, 2021)

Ranger Psych said:


> Everyone bitches till you mouthbreathers can't figure out how to rub metal on rock right to make dully sharp.
> 
> Or we're bored at a range and now we're not bored because Mr. 3 knife profile broke said profile and now everyone can practice throwing knives.
> 
> ...


One of our joes was doing knife tricks, and his final one ended up being how far he could get the knife stuck into his foot after screwing up the previous trick. This was an E-5, mind you.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 15, 2021)

frostyred said:


> One of our joes was doing knife tricks, and his final one ended up being how far he could get the knife stuck into his foot after screwing up the previous trick. This was an E-5, mind you.


Hahaha...stupid knows no rank. It inhabits all of them from E-1 to O-10. Yep...stupid is alive and well and thriving amongst the chaos....


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 15, 2021)

frostyred said:


> One of our joes was doing knife tricks, and his final one ended up being how far he could get the knife stuck into his foot after screwing up the previous trick. This was an E-5, mind you.


Now THIS is how you do a knife trick. Gawd-damn I love Marines.  

(He speeds up around 40 seconds in)


----------



## TYW27 (Jan 15, 2021)

Had a Marine who got pissed with his laptop, tried stabbing it, somehow stabbed his hand and the blade went through the laptop shocking him at the same time. It was truly amazing.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 15, 2021)

Not a knife story, but I think I posted elsewhere on this site the x-ray of my 5th Group colleague who put a firing pin through the skin of his pinky when we were doing a pre-deployment training offsite...


----------



## Muppet (Jan 15, 2021)

Democrats hate cops until the big bad insurrectionests committed treason. Now, all of a sudden, the constitution/bill of rights matter. Off of a sudden, cops matter. 

Fucking hypocrites.


----------



## Brill (Jan 15, 2021)

Muppet said:


> Democrats ...
> 
> Fucking hypocrites.


They know but they don’t care. Conservatives need to stop boxing with gloves on and just use brass knuckles like the left.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 15, 2021)

lindy said:


> They know but they don’t care. Conservatives need to stop boxing with gloves on and just use brass knuckles like the left.



Yeah, well, many Rs are just as bad as the left. Big government assholes. 99 percent of DC politicians are shills.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 15, 2021)

They are all -- R's and D's -- indefensible in my opinion. At this point, I see them all as self-serving and nothing more. I can't defend any of them as they all act like kindergartners and make a lot of money doing it.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 16, 2021)

AWP said:


> I missed my calling in life, that much is clear.



It's all fun and games when platoon brawls happen, until RP comes out in the hallway looking like a Tribal Shaman


----------



## Brill (Jan 16, 2021)

BLM riots in 2020 were real and real people were affected.  We cannot let this fall into a memory hole.



> When the phone rang two days after George Floyd’s death, Oscar Lee Stewart Jr. told his mother he’d stopped on Lake Street to see the protests.
> She expected the 30-year-old factory worker to come home later that night.
> He never did.
> 
> For eight long weeks the family was left to wonder about his fate. They dialed area hospitals and county jails, begging officials to check its databases for him each day. They blanketed south Minneapolis with fliers of his face and combed local parks by foot.* They scoured media footage hoping to catch a glimpse of him. Eventually, they tracked his car via GPS to behind a pawnshop. But it was empty.*



For family of man killed in pawnshop fire during George Floyd unrest, grief wrapped in a mystery


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348598630442217480


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 16, 2021)

The real insurrection was last Summer.  It was fomented by the Biden Campaign.  Kamala Harris literally had staffers post the bond fund on her campaign face book.  You can't make this shit up.  But hey, the left and big tech don't care because they make virtue signally seem like a real thing.  When Police Violence?  Well it's not really a thing.  Otherwise I'd probably be hassled for protection money on canals I run and shit.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 16, 2021)

Man, the narrative shift here is pretty wild.  The goalposts have been moved off of the field, past the next county, and right onto the highway.

It started with: “Actually, not that many MAGA folks participated in the capitol breakin”

Then it went to: “Actually the BLM riots were worse!””

Up to yesterday we were at: “It was really Antifa agitators”

Then, today, we’ve progressed to: “The REAL insurrection was the summer riots!”

Next week I think we’ll be at: “When you get down to it, the true revolution was the friends we made along the way.”


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 16, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Man, the narrative shift here is pretty wild.  The goalposts have been moved off of the field, past the next county, and right onto the highway.
> 
> It started with: “Actually, not that many MAGA folks participated in the capitol breakin”
> 
> ...



As an outsider, it's possible that all of those things can be true at the same time.  Both sides are a mess and are responsible for all of it.


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 16, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> As an outsider, it's possible that all of those things can be true at the same time.  Both sides are a mess and are responsible for all of it.



This. Very much this!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 16, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Man, the narrative shift here is pretty wild.  The goalposts have been moved off of the field, past the next county, and right onto the highway.
> 
> It started with: “Actually, not that many MAGA folks participated in the capitol breakin”
> 
> ...



I don't need to dredge into my All things Politics Posts...but. None of this is mutually exclusive. At least one "majorish" left wing agitator was arrested as part of the Capitol riots, he actually got more than trespassing charges. 

As far as point 1. There were a couple hundred thousand protestors at the Capitol, well under 1k, but a significant amount of bodies actually went into the Capitol. And this didn't happen because some dudes closed the doors. I'm sure that helps, but there were a couple hundred thousands people there.

And to your second to last point, it was and it was fomented my major leaders on the left. The butchers bill? 30-60 people (I guess it depends on how you choose to calculate responsibility) are dead because of left wing protests. Then add BILLLIONS in damage in just one city, the financial toll was insane and the only leader in this country that wanted to stop shit and put people behind bars was the POTUS. He's outgoing. We'll see how Prison Filler in Chief VP Harris does In Regards to That. 

4 Days left!


----------



## Brill (Jan 16, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Man, the narrative shift here is pretty wild.  The goalposts have been moved off of the field, past the next county, and right onto the highway.
> 
> It started with: “Actually, not that many MAGA folks participated in the capitol breakin”
> 
> ...



That's a huge stretch from what was actually written however, I can understand the HOW such a wild conclusion could be reached. Using CNN, MSNBC, & NYTs guidelines, if a story isn’t true just lie about it being true.

ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the ~73 million Trump supporters are deplorable white supremacist followers of a domestic terrorist cult. <- this is a complete lie and as much of a conspiracy theory as the Trump-Russia hoax.

1) Not everyone who was involved in the criminal activity that occurred in the Capitol building were in fact Trump supporters.  FACT
2) Antifa agitators have been arrested among the group of Trump supporters who rioted inside the Capitol. FACT
3) The real insurrection was the summer riots. Debatable however I'm utterly shocked that a liberal would acknowledge such activity occurred.

Regardless of telling a falsehood or omitting key facts to support an opinion, the result is the same.


----------



## Brill (Jan 16, 2021)

ANTIFA in their own wordz.


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 17, 2021)

So, here at our state Capitol, we have massive barricades, NG soldiers with up armored hummers, and too many cops to count.

The number of protesters? Three. Yes, 3! And, they have nothing to do with Biden or Trump. They just want you to hear God's word. 

So much the FBI's massive armed protests.

Oh, side note. Every Saturday since the election there have been 50-100 Trump supporters protesting outside the Capitol, typically with 10-20 of them sporting guns and tacticool outfits.


----------



## Brill (Jan 18, 2021)

There is a point on the political spectrum where far left and far right are actually the same ideology.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350873998234677250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350912518974271489


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 18, 2021)

Brill said:


> There is a point on the political spectrum where far left and far right are actually the same ideology.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350873998234677250
> ...


Aforementioned horseshoe theory in political science.


----------



## Brill (Jan 18, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Aforementioned horseshoe theory in political science.



More like a circle jerk.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 18, 2021)

Brill said:


> More like a circle jerk.


No one's saying it can't be both.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 18, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Now THIS is how you do a knife trick. Gawd-damn I love Marines.
> 
> (He speeds up around 40 seconds in)




We spent endless amount of downtime fucking around with our Kabars. Mumbly-peg a lot. And throwing them into the trunks of banana trees. With a good throw you got a satisfying thunk and good penetration.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 18, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Aforementioned horseshoe theory in political science.



Generally speaking Law Enforcement Agencies across this country have lost most of their support due to the enforcement of overreaching health mandates. This has partially been covered in the COVID-19 thread and here.

You can make a health recommendation from the CDC and state health authorities, 90% of people will jive with that.  But you use the Cops to enforce that idiocy?  Because it becomes idiocy and stupidity when you use what is effectively coercion and force of arms by having LEAs arrest people and give them $1500 fines.  This effectively makes everyone hate cops.  But hey, now the Democrats love cops?  Y'all ready for 1994 Crime Bill round 2?


----------



## Brill (Jan 18, 2021)

Black Panthers are so far left that they are AKSHUALLY right-wing gun nuts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351249865704165377


----------



## Grunt (Jan 19, 2021)

It's as if the gates of Hades have opened up and all the little demon groups are vying for attention....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 19, 2021)

Well, I guess the BLM riots will continue: NYPD Arrests 28 Protesters at MLK Day Demonstration

Also, I love how the AG is all in on the defund the police bit and is suing the NYPD.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 19, 2021)

Then there is the NFAC, the Atlanta-based Not Fucking Around Coalition. Unlike the Panthers, non-violent, 2A supportive but with a BLM agenda. Do I have a problem with this? None at all. The more the merrier. Maybe we can all find some common ground in our love for firearms. And hopefully these cats don't run into a big group of white dudes with ARs and they all feel obligated to annihilate each other.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 19, 2021)

You know, even in Europe where they had dedicated riot police that have to go toe to toe with Antifa all the time, Yellow Vests, etc.  

Guess what they don't roll out for riot control?  Crew Served Weapons.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 19, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> You know, even in Europe where they had dedicated riot police that have to go toe to toe with Antifa all the time, Yellow Vests, etc.
> 
> Guess what they don't roll out for riot control?  Crew Served Weapons.



I think most people stay willfully ignorant on external issues. It's like the same people are always thinking of how Americans are viewed by random countries.. meanwhile Paris was up in full on riots between firemen and police... The yellow vest "protests" were insane to watch and I bet the vast majority of Americans are completely ignorant of it.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 19, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> You know, even in Europe where they had dedicated riot police that have to go toe to toe with Antifa all the time, Yellow Vests, etc.
> 
> Guess what they don't roll out for riot control?  Crew Served Weapons.



Very true, crew served is a bit of a stretch....but Europe is also able to use their military for every day domestic security.


----------



## LeadSled1 (Jan 19, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> No one's saying it can't be both.


You want tetanus? Cause that’s how you get the tetanus. Who brought the damn horseshoe to the barracks circle jerk again!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 20, 2021)

There was never any intel of any conservative or boog boi uprising on inauguration day.  But there was plenty of intel on Antifa.  Jesus.  Lord love their consistency. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352042522868998144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352061756743434243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352069552113405952


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jan 21, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> You know, even in Europe where they had dedicated riot police that have to go toe to toe with Antifa all the time, Yellow Vests, etc.
> 
> Guess what they don't roll out for riot control?  Crew Served Weapons.



Um.





















Pretty sure these all qualify as "crew served" when we're talking about riot control weapon systems...


----------



## Gunz (Jan 21, 2021)

I don't think we'll ever see water cannons used here...too reminiscent of a common response used in the South.

Birmingham, 63:


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 21, 2021)

People were calling for ADS to be deployed in DC for the inauguration..


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 21, 2021)

Ranger Psych said:


> Um.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know we're being pedantic here...but that's not what she was talking about.  However, since we're now in the fully fledged age of Antifa in this country I wonder if we're going to have specialized riot police?


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jan 23, 2021)

Most city and state police do. Then prosecutors indict a couple for doing their job and officers quit the team.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 24, 2021)

The Bee is great.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 2, 2021)

Kinda COVID related, more related to a Cop being a jackwagon. Hope he enjoys losing his job. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354273257613119493


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Kinda COVID related, more related to a Cop being a jackwagon. Hope he enjoys losing his job.


Everyone feels this way about police who enforce laws they want to violate.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

Rest in peace, Officer Sicknick.

Brian Sicknick, Capitol Police Officer Slain By Mob, Lies In Honor In Rotunda
President Biden traveled to the Capitol to pay respects to Brian Sicknick, the officer who died from injuries sustained at the Capitol riot.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 2, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Everyone feels this way about police who enforce laws they want to violate.



Sure.. but this wasn't a law. a violation of a city ordinance is not criminal and at best a fine. The cop quite literally escalated and continued to escalate inside a private establishment. He also suggested that he was not being cooperative after he had been disarmed and was indeed just standing there.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Sure.. but this wasn't a law.


Yes, it was.

Ordinance


> Ordinance​_A law, statute, or regulation enacted by a_ Municipal Corporation.
> 
> *An ordinance is a law* passed by a municipal government. A municipality, such as a city, town, village, or borough, is a political subdivision of a state within which a municipal corporation has been established to provide local government to a population in a defined area.





Florida173 said:


> a violation of a city ordinance is not criminal and at best a fine.


Nothing about this challenges what I said.


Florida173 said:


> The cop quite literally escalated and continued to escalate inside a private establishment.


This often happens when dealing with noncompliant lawbreakers.


Florida173 said:


> He also suggested that he was not being cooperative after he had been disarmed and was indeed just standing there.


And he is welcome to challenge that officer on his home turf - in court.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 2, 2021)

The moment the officer began the encounter he was hostile to the dude.  He literally left the building, then the officer chased him with his taser drawn and was a complete and utter dickhead.  He was literally compliant.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> The moment the officer began the encounter he was hostile to the dude.  He literally left the building, then the officer chased him with his taser drawn and was a complete and utter dickhead.  He was literally compliant.


And if he wants to argue compliance in court against the camera footage, well.. good luck to him, then!


----------



## JedisonsDad (Feb 2, 2021)

Curious where that was filmed. Seems like the guy was getting ready to say something about the governor.

I know in Florida, our governor said that mask laws and ordinances are illegal to enforce. Maybe the same situation where this was filmed?

I do think it was dumb that the cop told the man to leave, then followed him out of the store to have his power trip. Maybe if he started the encounter with the slightest bit of mutual respect, or even a tone that showed something other than hostility, he might have received the same in return.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Kinda COVID related, more related to a Cop being a jackwagon. Hope he enjoys losing his job.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354273257613119493


Where did this happen at?
Cop just pissed off another pro-cop individual.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 2, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Yes, it was.
> 
> Ordinance
> 
> ...



My point being that he wasn't committing a criminal act, but a municipal violation punishable by a fine. But thank you for being pedantic

And yet here we are.. The perpetrator of this heinous act in Waco Texas is only just demanding a public apology from the officer and department.
Waco PD investigating officer pulling taser on unmasked man


ETA: to that.. I don't even know what the fine to the individual is. I can only see the violation to the business for not requiring visitors. I'm sure there is one.. I mean it's on par with other city ordinances like littering..


ETA2: No citations had been given at this point, back in September, and they've been opting for educating apparently.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

JedisonsDad said:


> Maybe if he started the encounter with the slightest bit of mutual respect.


Hard-pressed to start off any more respectfully than, rather than just arresting someone actively breaking the law *in front of signs explaining that it was illegal to do so,* instead breathing an audible sigh before asking him where his mask was, stating that it was illegal not to be wearing one inside, and telling him to leave until he had one.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Feb 2, 2021)

I’m curious about the gun. Last time I was there, Texas wasn’t an open carry state.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the city/county/whatever decided to go with “brandishing” just to save face and justify the tazer.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Feb 2, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Hard-pressed to start off any more respectfully than, rather than just arresting someone actively breaking the law *in front of signs explaining that it was illegal to do so,* instead breathing an audible sigh before asking him where his mask was, stating that it was illegal not to be wearing one inside, and telling him to leave until he had one.


I think you’re grabbing at straws. It wasn’t just an audible sigh, he was barking a rhetorical question at him.

To play devil’s advocate, how did he know that the gentleman didn’t have a medical reason preventing him from wearing a mask? ADA laws protect people like that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 2, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Where did this happen at?
> Cop just pissed off another pro-cop individual.



@Florida173 found it. Waco, Texas.



JedisonsDad said:


> I’m curious about the gun. Last time I was there, Texas wasn’t an open carry state.
> 
> I wouldn’t be surprised if the city/county/whatever decided to go with “brandishing” just to save face and justify the tazer.


If he has a Concealed Carry license in Texas that then allows him to open carry, apparently since 2016.

Open Carry | AustinTexas.gov.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> @Florida173 found it. Waco, Texas.
> 
> 
> If he has a Concealed Carry license in Texas that then allows him to open carry, apparently since 2016.
> ...


Makes sense why I wouldn’t know. Left the New Mexico/Texas area in 2015. Thanks for the info.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 2, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> Hard-pressed to start off any more respectfully than, rather than just arresting someone actively breaking the law *in front of signs explaining that it was illegal to do so,* instead breathing an audible sigh before asking him where his mask was, that it was illegal to have one, and that he needed to leave until he had one.


Wrong on so many levels. Gov has superseded all county/city mask ordinances with a State order.
Work around is to fine the business for not requiring masks.  Officer fatass should have found the manager.
The way it works is the Manager asks the customer to mask up or leave, the customer can then be cited for *CIVIL trespass.*

All Officer fatass did was piss off a lot of future jurors.

Cartman as a cop is supposed to be a cartoon, not an example of how to do it.

The guy arrested was wearing a body camera, I didn't see a clear sign requiring a mask as he walked in.

The only knock on the guy is Texas is very clear about LTC/PD interactions, and this guy will be used as an example of how not to do it.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> My point being that he wasn't committing a criminal act, but a municipal violation punishable by a fine. But thank you for being pedantic


Your nitpicking of my word choice didn't actually affect my point, so I didn't understand why you were making the distinction if you weren't addressing it.

And you're welcome too!


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

JedisonsDad said:


> I think you’re grabbing at straws. It wasn’t just an audible sigh, he was barking a rhetorical question at him.
> 
> To play devil’s advocate, how did he know that the gentleman didn’t have a medical reason preventing him from wearing a mask? ADA laws protect people like that.


Because he didn't provide a medical reason, and it is reasonable to ask someone why they are breaking a law if an exemption to it isn't immediately apparent.


----------



## Locksteady (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Kinda COVID related, more related to a Cop being a jackwagon. Hope he enjoys losing his job.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354273257613119493


This is a 5 month old video.  Why'd you post such an old video, and regardless of that what ended up happening?


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 2, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Wrong on so many levels. Gov has superseded all county/city mask ordinances with a State order.
> Work around is to fine the business for not requiring masks.  Officer fatass should have found the manager.
> The way it works is the Manager asks the customer to mask up or leave, the customer can then be cited for *CIVIL trespass.*
> 
> ...



and ultimately was only issued a written warning.



Locksteady said:


> This is a 5 month old video.  Why'd you post such an old video, and regardless of that what ended up happening?



I'm guessing because the officer's video was released through FOIA recently.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 2, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> This is a 5 month old video.  Why'd you post such an old video, and regardless of that what ended up happening?



1.  Just saw it today, the original tweet before it was retweeted was posted on 26 JAN.  So, didn't have the context of that article. 

2. The next thing that seemed to happen was an anti-mask protest in front of WACO PD HQ.  

Anti-mask protest held outside Waco PD headquarters

3. Story seems to fade away.  But it's been making the rounds on social in the last week.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 2, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> 1.  Just saw it today, the original tweet before it was retweeted was posted on 26 JAN.  So, didn't have the context of that article.
> 
> 2. The next thing that seemed to happen was an anti-mask protest in front of WACO PD HQ.
> 
> ...



From his video on what he recorded, seems like the cops thought he was just a first amendment auditor. I think most of those guys are super obnoxious, but whatever.

His video is here. records much more of the encounter

Entire encounter is about 20 minutes with him walking away and the officer saying that he agrees with the guy, but just enforcing the ordinance.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 3, 2021)

Tangentially related and pretty funny. 






Maybe they should have tried better in Iran. They had a sympathetic tweet from them...


----------



## digrar (Feb 5, 2021)

Brett McCain may have been targeted for being a known pain in the arse too.

Waco advocates carry guns openly, aim to educate public


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 7, 2021)

Here's a few videos of the BLM/ANTIFA protest going on in DC.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358215657641361410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358217235131736066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358225315588411393
So were the fences put up because ANTIFA was going to occupy DC and Conservatives are just being blamed for it?  Democrats didn't give a crap as this shit destroyed multiple cities. And they won't call this out either.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2022)

There may well be a "causation vs. correlation" argument to be made here, but it seems logical to me that a reduction in funding, massive increases in police officers walking away from the job, and a general reluctance to mix it up on the street due to the "Ferguson Effect" could be the cause of murders rising among all races in America.




> Between 2010 and 2019, there was an average of 5,954 White murders, which is roughly 16% lower than the 10-year average of Black murders. During that same time period, an average of 6,927 Black Americans were murdered each year, meaning Black murders shot up by 43% in 2020 compared to the previous 10-year average.
> 
> There was a roughly 21% increase in White murders in 2020 compared to 2019.




Massive increase in Black Americans murdered was result of defund police movement: experts


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 19, 2022)

The Latte Liberal policies of "defund the police" has adverse and direct effects on the communities in which need law enforcement the most.  If we go to Kenosha for Jacob Blake, the BLM Riots that occurred didn't touch the rich part of town.  They burned down working class businesses and other things that created major effects upon the lives of low income people.  If anything that whole situation was created by agitators...when a dude was in the midst of kidnapping and had just committed sexual assault.  

But that happened in many communities, go to Minneapolis and see what was torched.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 20, 2022)

Bail reform allowing violent offenders the chance to intimidate witnesses,


----------



## Gunz (Apr 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> There may well be a "causation vs. correlation" argument to be made here, but it seems logical to me that a reduction in funding, massive increases in police officers walking away from the job, and a general reluctance to mix it up on the street due to the "Ferguson Effect" could be the cause of murders rising among all races in America.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Reduce police presence and the gangs can operate freely, move money and drugs, settle old scores, intimidate the populace and enforce the “law of the street.”

Murders are up for all the reasons you mention. The liberal approach to a solution is passing more gun laws which have no effect at all in the hood where the majority of guns are stolen, black market or straw purchases that get passed around.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 5, 2022)

They all come crawling home eventually…

University of MN a few months ago, and now the Minneapolis Parks Board.  All that bullshit grandstanding about cutting ties with the Minneapolis Police…

Minneapolis Park Board Mends Fences with MPLS Police


----------



## Grunt (May 5, 2022)

They should get what they asked for since they wanted to get on the woke - I HATE THE POPO bandwagon. Let them reap what they have sown!


----------



## Gunz (May 5, 2022)

Amen. Let the animals run the zoo.


----------



## Kaldak (May 5, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Amen. Let the animals run the zoo.



I hear this one lion will be king 😏


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 16, 2022)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis…

Frey denounces violence against Minneapolis city workers as threatening flyer surfaces

A flyer that threatens retaliation against city leaders for clearing out homeless encampments is circulating through south Minneapolis.

The writing on the flyer says, “You Sweep, We Strike,” and has an image of a person throwing what appears to be a Molotov cocktail. The flyer names a top aide to Mayor Jacob Frey as well as the head of Community Planning and Economic Development and the director of Regulatory Services.


----------



## Locksteady (May 17, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis…
> 
> Frey denounces violence against Minneapolis city workers as threatening flyer surfaces
> 
> View attachment 39493


What does 'clearing' mean in Minneapolis?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 17, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> What does 'clearing' mean in Minneapolis?


We have homeless encampments that pop up in city parks and open corners.  People protest like crazy when the city attempts to move them out.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 25, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> We have homeless encampments that pop up in city parks and open corners.  People protest like crazy when the city attempts to move them out.


Austin voters made their city a homeless encampment, and then the Latte Liberals got really tired and voted to make camping in the city limits illegal.  Funny.


----------



## Gunz (May 25, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Austin voters made their city a homeless encampment, and then the Latte Liberals got really tired and voted to make camping in the city limits illegal.  Funny.



Yeah, funny. Kinda like Disband the Cops!... oh wait, I didn't mean that...Hire More Cops!


----------



## Cookie_ (May 25, 2022)

Latte liberalism is just "we like to feel good about ourselves but don't want to be inconvenienced" politics.

Attacking homelessness (from my viewpoint) requires actually investing money into drug treatment programs, mental health facilities, temporary public housing, and job skills/placement programs. 
It's a lot easier to say "we dont hate the homeless, but they're criminals when they are camping in city limits, so we don't have to help them."


----------



## Devildoc (May 25, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Latte liberalism is just "we like to feel good about ourselves but don't want to be inconvenienced" politics.
> 
> Attacking homelessness (from my viewpoint) requires actually investing money into drug treatment programs, mental health facilities, temporary public housing, and job skills/placement programs.
> It's a lot easier to say "we dont hate the homeless, but they're criminals when they are camping in city limits, so we don't have to help them."



Nah, brah, you're overthinking it.  Just need good public transportation to bus them to the next juries over.

In all seriousness, yes, it's multimodal and requires money and commitment.

The bussing over next door though?  Next town over did that.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 25, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Nah, brah, you're overthinking it.  Just need good public transportation to bus them to the next juries over.
> 
> In all seriousness, yes, it's multimodal and requires money and commitment.
> 
> The bussing over next door though?  Next town over did that.



I'm not surprised. I know that's been a thing in Cali, LA area in particular, for a while now.
Richer zip codes literally bus the homeless to poorer zip codes that don't have the money to provide resources.


----------



## RackMaster (May 25, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Latte liberalism is just "we like to feel good about ourselves but don't want to be inconvenienced" politics.
> 
> Attacking homelessness (from my viewpoint) requires actually investing money into drug treatment programs, mental health facilities, temporary public housing, and job skills/placement programs.
> It's a lot easier to say "we dont hate the homeless, but they're criminals when they are camping in city limits, so we don't have to help them."



Ironically that's the solution to so many of America and Canada's problems, including gun violence.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 26, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Latte liberalism is just "we like to feel good about ourselves but don't want to be inconvenienced" politics.
> 
> Attacking homelessness (from my viewpoint) requires actually investing money into drug treatment programs, mental health facilities, temporary public housing, and job skills/placement programs.
> It's a lot easier to say "we dont hate the homeless, but they're criminals when they are camping in city limits, so we don't have to help them."


Why would Irvine want Homeless encampment when LA is giving away hotel rooms for free and continuously wasting more taxpayer dollars to combat the issue. I need to find it, but there's a study that shows the more money is spent on the homeless problem, the worse it grows.

But then we have the random trash where an apartment complex will increase the rent by 50% forcing out a ten year resident who's disabled and on a fixed income. Don't even need empathy, bean counters need to just have a brain.


----------



## RackMaster (May 26, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Why would Irvine want Homeless encampment when LA is giving away hotel rooms for free and continuously wasting more taxpayer dollars to combat the issue. I need to find it, but there's a study that shows the more money is spent on the homeless problem, the worse it grows.
> 
> But then we have the random trash where an apartment complex will increase the rest by 50% forcing out a ten year resident who's disabled and on a fixed income. Don't even need empathy, bean counters need to just have a brain.



Simply, homelessness is now a profitable government business model; we see it here.  Governments offer grants to "non-profits" and the more they grow, the more they employ.  All it does is waste tax dollars on sub par services that never fix the problems.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 26, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Why would Irvine want Homeless encampment when LA is giving away hotel rooms for free and continuously wasting more taxpayer dollars to combat the issue. I need to find it, but there's a study that shows the more money is spent on the homeless problem, the worse it grows.
> 
> But then we have the random trash where an apartment complex will increase the rest by 50% forcing out a ten year resident who's disabled and on a fixed income. Don't even need empathy, bean counters need to just have a brain.



I think I've seen the study you're referencing, or at least a similar one that looked at California. 

The one I remember found that as cities focused on a "housing first" model to combat homelessness, they wound up spending more money over time because the programs aren't effective in the long term. Again, Latte liberalism says "if they have a place to live, they aren't homeless! Job done!".

A large portion of the homeless problem is tied to mental health/addiction issues, or education/housing markets being dogshit.

The stat is a year or so old, but I do remember that roughly 20%-25% of the people living in the homeless shelters here actually had full time jobs, but they can't afford a place to live because of the market. Every attempt to build more multi unit housing that's affordable gets shot down, but it'd be super helpful to balance the market out. Our cost of living is starting to surpass Denver.


----------



## RackMaster (May 26, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I think I've seen the study you're referencing, or at least a similar one that looked at California.
> 
> The one I remember found that as cities focused on a "housing first" model to combat homelessness, they wound up spending more money over time because the programs aren't effective in the long term. Again, Latte liberalism says "if they have a place to live, they aren't homeless! Job done!".
> 
> ...



That's where we are at with housing needs.  Small town's and rural area's that never saw a single homeless person, are now dealing with multiple encampments.  A large portion of them are working, single parents and families; that just can't afford the housing available.  All because those latte liberals moved from big cities during the pandemic, making a fortune off their home sales and driving home prices here astronomically.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2022)

Not an exact match for this thread, but didn't want to start a new one:

California sheriff 'infuriated' by release of drug traffickers caught with 150,000 fentanyl pills

To sum up, California cops busted drug traffickers with 150,000 fentanyl pills.  The judge in the case ordered them released without bail prior to trial.  1) released??? 2) without bail??? 3) without informing the arresting department??

Wow.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Not an exact match for this thread, but didn't want to start a new one:
> 
> California sheriff 'infuriated' by release of drug traffickers caught with 150,000 fentanyl pills
> 
> ...



Not to take this lightly...but maybe the Judge should look around to see who votes in their community. Because shit like won't be tolerated by the good people of Tulare. I suspect the Sheriff will be filing a bar complaint against the Judge.

But hey, liberals wanted bail reform and shit. Well bail reform just means more criminals on the street. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2022)

Coming to a city near me:  

In Durham, unarmed responders will answer 911 calls for those having a mental health crisis :: WRAL.com

Do I think this can work?  _IF_ the call screener and telecommunicator input is thorough enough, _IF_ they can semi-guarantee LE back-up, _IF_ they can ensure safety for both the responder as well as the caller, then yes.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Coming to a city near me:
> 
> In Durham, unarmed responders will answer 911 calls for those having a mental health crisis :: WRAL.com
> 
> Do I think this can work?  _IF_ the call screener and telecommunicator input is thorough enough, _IF_ they can semi-guarantee LE back-up, _IF_ they can ensure safety for both the responder as well as the caller, then yes.


They supposedly implemented this a year ago in Minneapolis.  Complete failure by all measures so far.  Aside for a bumbled rollout, they're often not available during times of need.  I've seen reports of call for service only to have officers be told the "social workers" don't start until 9am.  Or none are available, etc.

It's simply another program introduced by the good idea fairy, who's brainchilds aren't truly grounded in logic or reality.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 28, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Coming to a city near me:
> 
> In Durham, unarmed responders will answer 911 calls for those having a mental health crisis :: WRAL.com
> 
> Do I think this can work?  _IF_ the call screener and telecommunicator input is thorough enough, _IF_ they can semi-guarantee LE back-up, _IF_ they can ensure safety for both the responder as well as the caller, then yes.



Too many “ifs” for me. The biggest “if” is the unpredictability of people in the midst of an emotional or mental crisis. 0 to 60 in a cocaine heartbeat.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Not an exact match for this thread, but didn't want to start a new one:
> 
> California sheriff 'infuriated' by release of drug traffickers caught with 150,000 fentanyl pills
> 
> ...





ThunderHorse said:


> Not to take this lightly...but maybe the Judge should look around to see who votes in their community. Because shit like won't be tolerated by the good people of Tulare. I suspect the Sheriff will be filing a bar complaint against the Judge.
> 
> But hey, liberals wanted bail reform and shit. Well bail reform just means more criminals on the street. 🤷‍♂️


Y'all ever wonder who funds the political campaigns of these 'activist' judges? Might be the tinfoil, but pretty sure we've been seeing a lot of dangerous social elements being released into society by bureaucrats, who seem to share very similar social circles.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 3, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Y'all ever wonder who funds the political campaigns of these 'activist' judges? Might be the tinfoil, but pretty sure we've been seeing a lot of dangerous social elements being released into society by bureaucrats, who seem to share very similar social circles.


Judges in California are appointees. And uh since we haven't really had a Republican in forever...I know what ilk they belong to.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Judges in California are appointees. And uh since we haven't really had a Republican in forever...I know what ilk they belong to.


Oh agreed, the cat is very much outta the bag there. I was just putting out that if anyone did a kinship or social diagram on these people, it would be interesting to see who else might turn up.

I think the decay we're seeing California has deeper roots, than just the homegrown useful idiots in the state and DC.


----------



## pardus (Jul 3, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Coming to a city near me:
> 
> In Durham, unarmed responders will answer 911 calls for those having a mental health crisis :: WRAL.com
> 
> Do I think this can work?  _IF_ the call screener and telecommunicator input is thorough enough, _IF_ they can semi-guarantee LE back-up, _IF_ they can ensure safety for both the responder as well as the caller, then yes.


I spoke with a British social worker who told me that she is the first responder to calls like this, though there is a cop there. She does the knocking and the talking, the cop is just her backup if things go sideways. I can see value in it if done properly, but it still raises my eyebrows.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 3, 2022)

Perhaps don't shoot at cops? Of course there will be a return with volume. And got the old Sleeve bag LeBron inserting his opinion on his hometown.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/l...eased/95-e6339f9b-05f4-47b8-8eae-11cbbf70e220


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 5, 2022)

Dear NYPD/America,

Because the fitness test is too difficult, is not the reason qualified candidates are not applying to be cops anymore.  

The cops that you do have remaining better hope that backup only needs to leap a chain-link fence and not a brick wall.

NYPD makes fitness tests easier after increased retirements

Fuck me, I just cannot wrap my head around the decision makers of this world anymore.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 5, 2022)

To be fair I've always thought that runs other than sprints or shorter distances could probably be replaced by something more appropriate to today's policing. It seems like a relic from the past.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> To be fair I've always thought that runs other than sprints or shorter distances could probably be replaced by something more appropriate to today's policing. It seems like a relic from the past.


Like a three rep Bronco? People would complain about that. A two mile run ain't no relic. It's great for knowing "general fitness". But I'd definitely be up for something even more strenuous. 😅


----------



## AWP (Jul 6, 2022)

LEO's, what's the average length of your foot chases? What's your longest?


----------



## Gunz (Jul 6, 2022)

pardus said:


> I spoke with a British social worker who told me that she is the first responder to calls like this, though there is a cop there. She does the knocking and the talking, the cop is just her backup if things go sideways. I can see value in it if done properly, but it still raises my eyebrows.



I can see it working in the UK, but not here. Plenty of unhinged people on both sides of the Pond. But here…guns.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 6, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Like a three rep Bronco? People would complain about that. A two mile run ain't no relic. It's great for knowing "general fitness". But I'd definitely be up for something even more strenuous. 😅



Yeah it's fine for testing cardio but 1. How does that relate to being able to grapple an offender, 2. relate to wearing a stab vest all day 3. to the day to day job? You could make that argument for the walls too in fairness but I'd counter they're a reasonable agility test. 

The wooden wall is like 70/30 technique/strength too. The NYPD might have had better results if they'd tell people that? I don't know what they've been doing though.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 6, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Perhaps don't shoot at cops? Of course there will be a return with volume. And got the old Sleeve bag LeBron inserting his opinion on his hometown.
> 
> https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/l...eased/95-e6339f9b-05f4-47b8-8eae-11cbbf70e220


I grew up in a small suburb of Akron (literally 5 minutes from this shooting). 

Akron has *always* had the reputation of heavy handed policing. This is certainly messed up, from all sides. Bad policing, bad actions leading to the bad policing... truly a tragedy.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2022)

So...anytime I see the AG at a press conference to announce prosecutions I know it's a political stunt.  For what purpose, I do not know.  But let's reopen the wound of Breonna Taylor for the nation. 

Four current, former Louisville police officers federally charged in Breonna Taylor's death


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 9, 2022)

@Ooh-Rah , let us know what happens to Omar in today's race!

Putting here because she was a thing behind the defund movement.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> @Ooh-Rah , let us know what happens to Omar in today's race!
> 
> Putting here because she was a thing behind the defund movement.


Her district is so blue that even a smurf would look pale.  The Somali population there is huge and they love her.  Don't expect any change.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Her district is so blue that even a smurf would look pale.  The Somali population there is huge and they love her.  Don't expect any change.


I will be interested to see how this all comes out, I’ve seen a number of articles recently stating the Somali population is displeased with her and how she represent them.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I will be interested to see how this all comes out, I’ve seen a number of articles recently stating the Somali population is displeased with her and how she represent them.


I wonder if they are actually displeased enough for them to not vote for her anymore.  I kind of doubt it.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if they are actually displeased enough for them to not vote for her anymore.  I kind of doubt it.


That's exactly it.

This district is a Democrat stronghold.  They've held the seat since 1963 with no Republican getting more than 40% of the vote in half a century.  Those aren't good odds to overcome.  Best shot is for a competing Democrat to remove her.

Just checked...the current Democrat challenger trails her in the Primary right now 48 - 51%.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if they are actually displeased enough for them to not vote for her anymore.  I kind of doubt it.


Looks like she will pull this out, but a lot closer than I thought it would be. I’m sure it’s a lot closer than she thought it would be too.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Looks like she will pull this out, but a lot closer than I thought it would be. I’m sure it’s a lot closer than she thought it would be too.
> 
> View attachment 40207


It means she'll win re-election in Nov as well.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 11, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Looks like she will pull this out, but a lot closer than I thought it would be. I’m sure it’s a lot closer than she thought it would be too.
> 
> View attachment 40207


An interesting graphic that depicts just how strong her support is in various neighborhoods in her district - it speaks volumes as to the views of Mpls residents; they deserve what they vote for:


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 14, 2022)

Meanwhile in Minneapolis….

Minneapolis teachers union contract calls for layoffs of white teachers first

A Minneapolis teachers union contract stipulates that white teachers will be laid off or reassigned before “educators of color” in the event Minneapolis Public Schools (MPS) needs to reduce staff.

After the Minneapolis Federation of Teachers (MFT) and MPS struck a deal on March 25 to end a 14-day teacher strike, the two sides drew up and ratified a new collective bargaining agreement complete with various proposals.

One of the proposals dealt with “educators of color protections.” The agreement states that if a non-white teacher is subject to excess, MPS must excess a white teacher with the “next least” seniority.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 14, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis….
> 
> Minneapolis teachers union contract calls for layoffs of white teachers first
> 
> ...


That policy is... pretty racist.


----------



## Grunt (Aug 14, 2022)

It's amazing to see such discriminatory rules in place and their boldness to bring it out. Let's you know how far we have fallen as a nation and how bold "they" have become.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 14, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That policy is... pretty racist.


And probably illegal.

BTW: Hate at the policy, not @Ooh-Rah


----------



## AWP (Aug 14, 2022)

Whites only firing criteria = not racist
Whites only water fountains or schools = bet your ass Federal troops are coming to town

I hope the MPS is burned to the fucking ground in courts and with lawsuits. To the ground like...Minneapolis during those mostly peaceful protests awhile back.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 14, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile in Minneapolis….
> 
> Minneapolis teachers union contract calls for layoffs of white teachers first
> 
> ...



Holy shit. That's a horrible union.


----------



## AWP (Aug 14, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Holy shit. That's a horrible union.


That’s a union in name only. That organization is a straight up hate group.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 14, 2022)

If the Mongols had developed navigation and ship building, there wouldn’t be anybody left alive to bitch.


----------



## pardus (Aug 21, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> To be fair I've always thought that runs other than sprints or shorter distances could probably be replaced by something more appropriate to today's policing. It seems like a relic from the past.


It kind of is a relic, but in order to complete a distance run, you by default "should" be fit enough to perform a lot of other physical tasks. The run needs of course to be supplemented with other exercises.
Maybe a more important thing to think about is that once these cops pass the academy there is no more physical testing, ever... 


ThunderHorse said:


> Like a three rep Bronco? People would complain about that. A two mile run ain't no relic. It's great for knowing "general fitness". But I'd definitely be up for something even more strenuous. 😅


The 2 mile run is a non scientific benchmark, a 1.5 mile run has been proven in the past to be far more effective, beyond that you need to be doing 3+ miles. Physiology and all that jazz.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 21, 2022)

Oh boy…

My thinks we might see this video making the rounds over the next few days. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561474959347970048


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 21, 2022)

pardus said:


> It kind of is a relic, but in order to complete a distance run, you by default "should" be fit enough to perform a lot of other physical tasks. The run needs of course to be supplemented with other exercises.
> Maybe a more important thing to think about is that once these cops pass the academy there is no more physical testing, ever...
> 
> The 2 mile run is a non scientific benchmark, a 1.5 mile run has been proven in the past to be far more effective, beyond that you need to be doing 3+ miles. Physiology and all that jazz.


I'm not really sure on any science that says 1.5 miles is "enough" to determine general aerobic fitness. But if you want to go to 3 miles, let's do it.



Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh boy…
> 
> My thinks we might see this video making the rounds over the next few days.
> 
> ...



Hate. Only because that is fucked.


----------



## pardus (Aug 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm not really sure on any science that says 1.5 miles is "enough" to determine general aerobic fitness. But if you want to go to 3 miles, let's do it.


I am, unless new advancements in science have shown otherwise. Do you know why the US Army choose 2 miles? I don't. I do however know why most other forces in the world have chosen 1.5ml, and there's science behind it. I never said "general aerobic fitness", I also never said 3 miles was a better standard. My post doesn't need to be interpreted, it's not cryptic.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 21, 2022)

pardus said:


> I am, unless new advancements in science have shown otherwise. Do you know why the US Army choose 2 miles? I don't. I do however know why most other forces in the world have chosen 1.5ml, and there's science behind it. I never said "general aerobic fitness", I also never said 3 miles was a better standard. My post doesn't need to be interpreted, it's not cryptic.


I assume it’s so they can claim they’re harder than the Air Force, with our 1.5 miles and only 1 minute of push-ups and sit-ups, rather than the Army’s manly 2.0 and 2 minutes of push-ups and sit-ups.


----------



## AWP (Aug 21, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh boy…
> 
> My thinks we might see this video making the rounds over the next few days.
> 
> ...



I can't wait to see the justification for that one. 

I guess the only positive here, making lemonade and all, is burning the entire state of Arkansas to the ground won't cause much damage. 2-3 million in property damage total for the whole state?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 21, 2022)

pardus said:


> I am, unless new advancements in science have shown otherwise. Do you know why the US Army choose 2 miles? I don't. I do however know why most other forces in the world have chosen 1.5ml, and there's science behind it. I never said "general aerobic fitness", I also never said 3 miles was a better standard. My post doesn't need to be interpreted, it's not cryptic.



British Army was doing a 1.5 Mile warm up before the 1.5 mile for test. So again, not really sure on "the science". The Air Force and the Navy use 1.5 mile run in their PT test...and they're totally a standard to aspire to. 🙄

Most of the time the people that complain about the 2 mile run are really fat. Then you have a few of the super fit that also complain. YMMV



JedisonsDad said:


> I assume it’s so they can claim they’re harder than the Air Force, with our 1.5 miles and only 1 minute of push-ups and sit-ups, rather than the Army’s manly 2.0 and 2 minutes of push-ups and sit-ups.



Well you lot had civilian graders because NCOs couldn't be trusted to deliver PT tests. Them got rid of the Civilian graders to bring back NCOs, but the NCOs couldn't be from your unit. So, pretty sure it has nothing to do with being harder than the country club. Slightly snark, but really not.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> British Army was doing a 1.5 Mile warm up before the 1.5 mile for test. So again, not really sure on "the science". The Air Force and the Navy use 1.5 mile run in their PT test...and they're totally a standard to aspire to. 🙄
> 
> Most of the time the people that complain about the 2 mile run are really fat. Then you have a few of the super fit that also complain. YMMV
> 
> ...


No offense taken. I’m disgusted by a majority of the force, and not just the Air Force.


----------



## pardus (Aug 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> British Army was doing a 1.5 Mile warm up before the 1.5 mile for test. So again, not really sure on "the science". The Air Force and the Navy use 1.5 mile run in their PT test...and they're totally a standard to aspire to. 🙄
> 
> Most of the time the people that complain about the 2 mile run are really fat. Then you have a few of the super fit that also complain. YMMV
> 
> ...



OK, you're being a dick now. Your sarcastic remarks add nothing to the discussion SIR.
The US Army and it's standards of PT (etc...) are NOTHING to be proud of, so check yourself and try and be a little humble, that's just my humble opinion, from someone who has served in the US Army, the New Zealand army, and worked with many other armies, you have nothing to crow about, trust me.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 23, 2022)

pardus said:


> OK, you're being a dick now. Your sarcastic remarks add nothing to the discussion SIR.
> The US Army and it's standards of PT (etc...) are NOTHING to be proud of, so check yourself and try and be a little humble, that's just my humble opinion, from someone who has served in the US Army, the New Zealand army, and worked with many other armies, you have nothing to crow about, trust me.


Didn't say they were good. But I definitely thought the 1.5 mile was weak and would go for a 3 miler.  And generally, the entire time I was in the I worked out close to 20 hours a week because PT just didn't do it. And this was after doing some crazy sadistic shit like 500m of lunges and back across the bridge or  "double APFTs" in pro masks.

The entire time I on active duty the policy of TRADOC for a private to "graduate" from OSUT was only a 150/300 provided they got 50 points in each category. And no matter how hard we PT'd some guys just don't workout on their own or are just slobs. And can't get over 60 in each event. 

Oh and then when you're not working up for something, the joes are just validating their time until the day is over instead of doing organized workouts or company athletics as most commands are backwards.  So I guess if we wanted to discuss the idiocy of US Army fitness culture I'm ready. 😀


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## policemedic (Aug 24, 2022)

AWP said:


> LEO's, what's the average length of your foot chases? What's your longest?



The truth is that most foot pursuits span only a very few blocks.  To be honest, it's never a matter of endurance--at least, not until the fight that normally happens if you catch them.  It's a matter of speed.  If you don't catch them in the 1st block or two, you're not catching them.  At that point, it becomes a game of employing other strategies.


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## policemedic (Aug 24, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm not really sure on any science that says 1.5 miles is "enough" to determine general aerobic fitness.



The Cooper Institute disagrees with you.


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2022)

policemedic said:


> The Cooper Institute disagrees with you.


A lot of people touting science without links. I remember when we had to cite our sources and provide commentary for that link on this site. 😀

Cooper Test standards are also very defined and most LEAs "passing" time would not even be considered "good" on the Cooper Test table. It's also still an anaerobic test. But we can go back and forth on this.

If anyone thinks 1.5 miles is enough, fine. Not the point. The point is that to develop real fitness you have to invest A LOT of TIME to develop fitness. Most people don't, in any job that requires decent fitness.


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## RackMaster (Aug 24, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> A lot of people touting science without links. I remember when we had to cite our sources and provide commentary for that link on this site. 😀
> 
> Cooper Test standards are also very defined and most LEAs "passing" time would not even be considered "good" on the Cooper Test table. It's also still an anaerobic test. But we can go back and forth on this.
> 
> If anyone thinks 1.5 miles is enough, fine. Not the point. The point is that to develop real fitness you have to invest A LOT of TIME to develop fitness. Most people don't, in any job that requires decent fitness.



There's a reason why the Cooper's Test is the basis of pre-selection fitness testing for CANSOF units.  And you're fully capable of using Google.   I can pick numerous instances of you lacking sources in recent posts.


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> There's a reason why the Cooper's Test is the basis of pre-selection fitness testing for CANSOF units.  And you're fully capable of using Google.   I can pick numerous instances of you lacking sources in recent posts.



Well it's opinion. Not me touting "science". 

The physical demands for aerobic capacity and anaerobic capacity are massive. Cooper Institute also considers the 1.5 Mile an anaerobic event, not an aerobic event. Which seems quite arbitrary when World Athletics considers anything over 800m to be a "mid-distance" event before you get to a half marathon. 

But again, that's generally not the point of the discussion. The point of the discus was what is required to create LEOs with good fitness.

Well most LEAs don't test after their screener. So testing yearly would be a start...but that's a bit of a stick and not really proactive.


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## Cookie_ (Aug 24, 2022)

I like the full 12 minute Cooper test. It's more of an ass kicker than a 1.5 or 2 mile run.

It also seems like the 20m beep test is a good indicator of Vo2max.
Anyways, away from LEO fitness and to the whole "protest" topic:

Officer in Breonna Taylor case plead guilty.



> A former Louisville detective pleaded guilty in federal court on Tuesday to helping falsify a search warrant that led to the killing of Breonna Taylor, a Black woman whose death fueled a wave of protests over police violence against people of color.
> 
> The former officer, Kelly Goodlett, entered her plea before U.S. District Court Judge Rebecca Grady Jennings in a federal court in Louisville, Kentucky, court records showed.  <snip>   Goodlett and a fellow former officer, Joshua Jaynes, met days after the shooting in a garage where they agreed on a false story to cover for the false evidence they had submitted to justify the botched raid, prosecutors say.
> 
> Federal prosecutors also charged Jaynes and current Sergeant Kyle Meany with civil rights violations and obstruction of justice for using false information to obtain the search warrant.


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I like the full 12 minute Cooper test. It's more of an ass kicker than a 1.5 or 2 mile run.
> 
> It also seems like the 20m beep test is a good indicator of Vo2max.
> Anyways, away from LEO fitness and to the whole "protest" topic:
> ...


Yes the Cooper Test was 12 minutes and the score was based on the distance one completed in that 12 minutes. Generally speaking in Imperial, 1.5 miles in 12 would be considered bad. 2 miles would be considered good. (In high school anyone who didn't hit 2 miles on day one of soccer practice had additional conditioning)

Wiki has the table: Cooper test - Wikipedia

_______

I saw that. I generally don't know what to think. They were cleared by a state court and then the FBI and DOJ decided to get political and go on a witch hunt. And now we have this.

Not to borrow from the Trump thread, but uh, the burden on LEOs required to get a warrant seems to be needing to be increased. I know the standard is "probably cause" but maybe need more paperwork. BUT, I also read the Louisville PD surveillance report on Breanna Taylor. It's over 90 pages. It might even be in this thread somewhere.


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## Marauder06 (Aug 24, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I like the full 12 minute Cooper test. It's more of an ass kicker than a 1.5 or 2 mile run.
> 
> It also seems like the 20m beep test is a good indicator of Vo2max.
> Anyways, away from LEO fitness and to the whole "protest" topic:
> ...


Further evidence that you often get punished more for the cover-up than you would have if you had just come clean.


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## Gunz (Aug 24, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh boy…
> 
> My thinks we might see this video making the rounds over the next few days.
> 
> ...



I'm organizing a white guy riot.


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## AWP (Aug 24, 2022)

Gunz said:


> I'm organizing a white guy riot.



I'm going to protest a lack of Chik Fil A on Sundays by burning down the Home Depot across the street. That'll teach them!


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## Marauder06 (Aug 24, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm going to protest a lack of Chik Fil A on Sundays by burning down the Home Depot across the street. That'll teach them!


I'm going to protest them not having a store within easy driving distance by burning down the building where I want them to put one.  That will work, right?


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## Polar Bear (Aug 24, 2022)

policemedic said:


> The truth is that most foot pursuits span only a very few blocks.  To be honest, it's never a matter of endurance--at least, not until the fight that normally happens if you catch them.  It's a matter of speed.  If you don't catch them in the 1st block or two, you're not catching them.  At that point, it becomes a game of employing other strategies.


Can’t out run Motorola


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## policemedic (Aug 25, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well it's opinion. Not me touting "science".
> 
> The physical demands for aerobic capacity and anaerobic capacity are massive. Cooper Institute also considers the 1.5 Mile an anaerobic event, not an aerobic event. Which seems quite arbitrary when World Athletics considers anything over 800m to be a "mid-distance" event before you get to a half marathon.
> 
> ...



What level of familiarity do you have with 'most LEAs'?  Have you ever been a cop?

Regarding your (incorrect) statement on the 1.5 mile run, here is how the Cooper Institute views each event:



> 1. What fitness tests accurately measure the underlying fitness areas?
> Aerobic Capacity (Cardiorespiratory) 1.5 Mile Run ***
> Anaerobic Power (Sprinting Ability) 300 Meter Run ***
> Anaerobic Power (Explosive Leg Strength) Vertical Jump***
> ...



That's drawn from https://www.cooperinstitute.org/vault/2440/web/files/684.pdf .


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## policemedic (Aug 25, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> Can’t out run Motorola



Or Rin-Tin-Tin, or the helo...


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## policemedic (Aug 25, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not to borrow from the Trump thread, but uh, the burden on LEOs required to get a warrant seems to be needing to be increased. I know the standard is "probably cause" but maybe need more paperwork. BUT, I also read the Louisville PD surveillance report on Breanna Taylor. It's over 90 pages. It might even be in this thread somewhere.



The probable cause standard is fine.  It's set forth in the Constitution.  That's not the issue.

The issue is that (some) cops need to stop lying and embarassing/damaging the rest of the profession.


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## AWP (Aug 25, 2022)

policemedic said:


> The probable cause standard is fine.  It's set forth in the Constitution.  That's not the issue.
> 
> The issue is that cops need to stop lying and embarassing/damaging the rest of the profession.



They also need to stop covering for dirty cops.


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## policemedic (Aug 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> They also need to stop covering for dirty cops.



Yeah, I’d think that would go without saying, but….

The good thing is that there are very few of those.  I’ve only run into a couple in 30 years, and, well…they’re no longer cops.


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## AWP (Aug 25, 2022)

policemedic said:


> Yeah, I’d think that would go without saying, but….
> 
> The good thing is that there are very few of those.  I’ve only run into a couple in 30 years, and, well…they’re no longer cops.



I don’t doubt your experiences, but I think it is more widespread. I know of two cases where the officers lied to IA, one even had a body cam(!), and they conspired to create a fictitious story. Then you had the GTTF in Baltimore where people died and still no one came forward.

The bulk of police are good people, but those who sit on their hands or “saw nothing” are as bad as the corrupt.


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## policemedic (Aug 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> I don’t doubt your experiences, but I think it is more widespread. I know of two cases where the officers lied to IA, one even had a body cam(!), and they conspired to create a fictitious story. Then you had the GTTF in Baltimore where people died and still no one came forward.
> 
> The bulk of police are good people, but those who sit on their hands or “saw nothing” are as bad as the corrupt.


 Sorry, not enough coffee….GTTF?


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## AWP (Aug 25, 2022)

policemedic said:


> Sorry, not enough coffee….GTTF?



Gun Trace Task Force. A number of Baltimore police were so far gone and their department unwilling to do anything about them the Feds intervened. HBO just had a great series on the topic.


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## Muppet (Aug 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm going to protest a lack of Chik Fil A on Sundays by burning down the Home Depot across the street. That'll teach them!



So, looting bass pro shop is ok?


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## RackMaster (Aug 25, 2022)

I have a list for looting Lowe's.


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## AWP (Aug 25, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, looting bass pro shop is ok?



I don’t have a Bass Pro Shops nearby and HD is across the street from the nearest Chik Fil A. Academy Sports is also across the street, so I have a shopping list.


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## RackMaster (Aug 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> I don’t have a Bass Pro Shops nearby and HD is across the street from the nearest Chik Fil A. Academy Sports is also across the street, so I have a shopping list.



Good call!  Never loot on an empty stomach.


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## AWP (Aug 25, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Good call!  Never loot on an empty stomach.



Those waffle fries, yo.


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## Gunz (Aug 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> They also need to stop covering for dirty cops.



Yeah, they need to stop acting like Navy SEALs.


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## policemedic (Aug 26, 2022)

AWP said:


> Gun Trace Task Force. A number of Baltimore police were so far gone and their department unwilling to do anything about them the Feds intervened. HBO just had a great series on the topic.


I’ll see if I can find it.


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## policemedic (Aug 26, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Yeah, they need to stop acting like Navy SEALs.


You mean writing books?


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## Marauder06 (Aug 27, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Yeah, they need to stop acting like Navy SEALs.


Gonna have to start murdering a whole lot more active duty / former SF types for that.


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## Gunz (Aug 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Gonna have to start murdering a whole lot more active duty / former SF types for that.



Absolute savage commentary. And frankly…they brought it on themselves.


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## AWP (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Gonna have to start murdering a whole lot more active duty / former SF types for that.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Gonna have to start murdering a whole lot more active duty / former SF types for that.


If this is a preview of retired-Mara, standby to standby!


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## Gunz (Aug 28, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If this is a preview of retired-Mara, standby to standby!



Some of these officers, who’ve lived in a structured, regimental environment for many years, become ape-shit fuel-injected party animals when they find themselves in civvy-Land. Y’know, first one to hit the beer bong, bite the head off a chicken…🤣🤣😜😎


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## Topkick (Aug 28, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Some of these officers, who’ve lived in a structured, regimental environment for many years, become ape-shit fuel-injected party animals when they find themselves in civvy-Land. Y’know, first one to hit the beer bong, bite the head off a chicken…🤣🤣😜😎


The opposite of some NCO's


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 2, 2022)

I generally stopped listening to national addresses because other than O's Bin Laden announcement all of them have been political grand standing after W left office.

But Biden had one last night and wouldn't actually address the issue of why crime is soaring.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565648253135323137
In this address he attacked "MAGA" Republicans and called them extremists. I have to say, that is some ridiculous shit. Calling half the party extremists. Make America Great Again is a sub-movement within the party, similar to the Tea Party Republicans. 

There have been many of these whacked out groups in the Democratic Party but they never getting attacked with the same fervor. Again, probably because conservatives don't own the media and social institutions.

This shit just matches all the rhetoric that party has used for six years.


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## Gunz (Sep 4, 2022)

An amazing TV ad. I don’t know if it’s been aired. If not, it should be.

HOLY SH*T - This is a serious ad against the Democrats nation-wide - Choice Clips


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## Marine0311 (Sep 4, 2022)

I auggest everyone read the book War on Cops.

It is very eye opening.

I truly support the good men and women police.


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## AWP (Sep 9, 2022)

We have a thread on immigration, but it is from 2016, so here we go.

I LOVE Lightfoot's hypocrisy. What an absolute bag of shit from the city that gave us...you know Chicago; not exactly a red dot, but I digress...

Chicago Welcomes Immigrants Sent by Bus from Texas as ‘Our New Neighbors,’ Lightfoot Says



> “We are Chicago, a welcoming city, a city where we live our values every single day — a city where immigrants and refugees have been a part of the fabric of the city from our earliest days,” Lightfoot told reporters at a Salvation Army shelter on the North Side. “What we have and will continue to do is welcome them with open arms and refuse to turn our backs on them in a time when they need support the most.”



‘They are human beings’: Chicago mayor welcomes migrants bussed by Texas



> She said that in opening up a new Chicago front, Abbott had shown himself to be a “cheap politician” and “a man without any morals, humanity or shame”. The migrants he was loading on to buses and carting across a strange country were “moms and dads, young children, elders who deserve our respect and dignity. They’re not cargo. They are not chattel. They are human beings.”



The humanity plays well and all, but the politics play better. Chicago will welcome these immigrants and Gov. Abbott is bad for shipping these human beings out Texas. 

Chicago Suburb Says It Didn't Know Dozens of Migrants Were Being Sent From Chicago as More Buses Arrived in City



> "On Wednesday, September 7, the Village of Burr Ridge learned that 64 refugees, among many bussed to Chicago from Texas, were transported from the Salvation Army Shield of Hope in Chicago and assigned to temporary hotel housing in Burr Ridge," a village spokesperson told NBC 5. "Neither Village elected officials nor staff were consulted or contacted about this decision and we are now gathering information to keep our community updated."



https://www.kvue.com/article/news/l...uses/269-51b9176e-b713-4dd6-b481-75cacb7cd861



> “My frustration comes from the actions of the governor of Texas,” Lightfoot said Sunday, when the first bus carrying 50 migrants arrived. “There could be a level of coordination and cooperation, but he chooses to do none of those things and instead tries to send human beings — not cargo, not freight — human beings across the country to an uncertain destination.”



So Abbott should coordinate this and that lack of coordination is why these people were then bussed outside of Chicago? They arrived in Chicago and were then sent away...as if they were cargo or freight.

Whatever you think of Abbott's position, how do you defend Lightfoot? I'm sure some will, but c'mon man.


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## Kraut783 (Sep 9, 2022)

It is completely a in your face move by Gov. Abbot....but to be fair, the people were asked if they wanted to travel to NY or Chicago or DC, none were forced. It does give those sanctuary cities a very small taste of what the border states deal with all the time....no matter what party is in the Presidency. 

The border and immigration issue has never been a important problem for the government, until it is a political problem.


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## Topkick (Sep 14, 2022)

Appears Desantis has one -upped Abbott.

Ron DeSantis sends two planes of illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard


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## AWP (Sep 16, 2022)

Topkick said:


> Appears Desantis has one -upped Abbott.
> 
> Ron DeSantis sends two planes of illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard


----------



## 757 (Sep 17, 2022)




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## ThunderHorse (Sep 22, 2022)

I for one can't wait for "Stop & Frisk" to return. 🙄


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573103635705331712


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## policemedic (Sep 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I for one can't wait for "Stop & Frisk" to return. 🙄
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573103635705331712



That's not a term we use.  It was invented by liberals.  In point of fact, our practices nationwide in this regard have not changed substantially since 1968.  That is to say, anyone in this country can be stopped by the police and subsequently frisked where cause exists for both actions.


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## Muppet (Sep 23, 2022)

policemedic said:


> That's not a term we use.  It was invented by liberals.  In point of fact, our practices nationwide in this regard have not changed substantially since 1968.  That is to say, anyone in this country can be stopped by the police and subsequently frisked where cause exists for both actions.



The very same asshole liberals of PA that will vote for Fetterman cause he wears sweatshirts and looks like the working man. Lol


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## Marauder06 (Sep 23, 2022)

Muppet said:


> The very same asshole liberals of PA that will vote for Fetterman cause he wears sweatshirts and looks like the working man. Lol


That is another legitimately-mentally-disabled prominent politician.  Can’t we do better as a country?


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## JedisonsDad (Sep 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That is another legitimately-mentally-disabled prominent politician.  Can’t we do better as a country?


We can, but we won’t.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That is another legitimately-mentally-disabled prominent politician.  *Can’t we do better as a country?*


I don’t think so. Our best and brightest are too bright to place themselves in the political spotlight, especially these days. So, we're left with virtual imbeciles to pull the strings.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 23, 2022)

policemedic said:


> That's not a term we use.  It was invented by liberals.  In point of fact, our practices nationwide in this regard have not changed substantially since 1968.  That is to say, anyone in this country can be stopped by the police and subsequently frisked where cause exists for both actions.


The whole point of the emoji, to show sarcasm. Point is the liberals allowed the burning of our cities and crime to destroy neighborhoods in the now two years following the Floyd riots. And now they're championing police funding to try and cut losses and hopefully prevent from getting their ass kicked. But I'm pretty sure enough folks are awake I hope.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 17, 2022)

Kanye West double-dog-dares folks to try and ’cancel’ him….

Kanye West Blames George Floyd's Death on Fentanyl, Not Police Officer's Knee

_"If you look, the guy’s knee wasn’t even on his neck like that,_" rapper says after attending premiere of Candace Owens' Black Lives Matter film


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## AWP (Oct 17, 2022)

The demons got to Bruce, now they are coming for Kanye.


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## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

AWP said:


> The demons got to Bruce, now they are coming for Kanye.


Demons have horns right!? 
"Ya see what I did there?"


----------

