# Does the NSA have a contractor problem?



## SpitfireV (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm reading today that the FBI has arrested yet another NSA contractor for releasing classified documents. This is the third one to release serious documents (for whatever reason) in the last few years. 

So I pose this question: Does the NSA have a problem with the vetting of it's contractors? Is there a mindset problem with hiring contractors vis a vis, it's not their "workplace" so they don't care? We all know they should but the question remains...why is this continually happening there and not other places?


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## DA SWO (Jun 6, 2017)

Short ans is yes (IMO)
Off to an interview (for a contracting job), and will give a long answer tonight.


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## Kraut783 (Jun 6, 2017)

Full answer is...the USIC has a contractor problem.


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## Il Duce (Jun 6, 2017)

They definitely have a problem, so does the IC writ-large, and the federal government to a lesser extent.  I'm not sure it's a matter of vetting more thoroughly - I don't think contractors as a group of people (certainly as individuals) are better or worse than their government counterparts - it's that they are overused, under-supervised, and poorly integrated.  There is a fundamental structural problem - leaks are just one of the symptoms of the disease IMO.


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## Gunz (Jun 6, 2017)

There's got to be some personal motivation for an individual to leak secret material. Political or religious views, money, blackmail, some warped sense of public duty.

Nothing that a 7.62mm Nato to the back of the pumpkin won't cure.  If only...


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## DA SWO (Jun 6, 2017)

The leaker arrested is an AF vet who knows what she did was wrong.
Hope she enjoys club fed.
Anyhow, it's late and I just got home.  Long answer tomorrow.


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## CQB (Jun 7, 2017)

I was sort of waiting for some kid of resolution. After Ed Snowdon Bruce Schneier reported in his monthly brief there were two other leaks which Snowdon said he had nothing to do with. Soo, one more still in the wild.


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## AWP (Jun 7, 2017)

There's so much wrong witht his story I wouldn't know where to begin. From the individual to the system on multiple levels....and we won't learn a goddamn thing from this episode.


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## CDG (Jun 7, 2017)

AWP said:


> There's so much wrong witht his story I wouldn't know where to begin. From the individual to the system on multiple levels*....and we won't learn a goddamn thing from this episode*.



Yup.  This is almost the worst part.  There will be some flavor of knee jerk reaction that will make life more difficult for the "worker bees" at NSA and other places, but legitimate steps to prevent this from happening will be deemed too difficult, expensive, etc. and business will continue as (relatively) usual until the next event.  Wash, rinse, repeat. We suck at lessons learned.


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## DA SWO (Jun 7, 2017)

CDG said:


> Yup.  This is almost the worst part.  There will be some flavor of knee jerk reaction that will make life more difficult for the "worker bees" at NSA and other places, but legitimate steps to prevent this from happening will be deemed too difficult, expensive, etc. and business will continue as (relatively) usual until the next event.  Wash, rinse, repeat. We suck at lessons learned.



Considering she was a worker bee, maybe the rest of the hive needs some pain.

Interesting she went to Meade instead of an aircrew slot, wonder if she thought she was the golden child and rules didn't apply (like for her entire life).

The problem with contracting at this point is everyone wants to do it, drives wages down, and lower wages bring a lower quality of employee.

We have a bunch of "one tour wonders" getting out and working for the same agency as a contractor, and (to be frank) most of them are still immature.

Congress treat contract workers like acquisitions projects, and you get a ton of set-asides, so companies get positions based on small/minority/female/veteran/disabled/ points vice do they know what they are doing.

The Air Force does a crappy job supervising contractors, hell they don't even vet new hires or look at the process.


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## CDG (Jun 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Considering she was a worker bee, maybe the rest of the hive needs some pain.
> 
> Interesting she went to Meade instead of an aircrew slot, wonder if she thought she was the golden child and rules didn't apply (like for her entire life).
> 
> ...



The bolded about sums it up.  If the DoD isn't going to implement some better quality control, this will happen again, in addition the other, lesser, problems that come with contractors.  How many anecdotes have we seen from @AWP about contractor laziness, negligence, incompetence, etc?  Information Assurance CBTs, Cyber Awareness Challenges, and OPSEC posters aren't going to cut it.


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## AWP (Jun 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Awesome post goes here.



You are in the running to replace @amlove21 as my favorite Airperson. 

I will say my contract's QA has significantly improved under AMIC, but even that has limits given its budget.


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## BloodStripe (Jun 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> The problem with contracting at this point is everyone wants to do it, drives wages down, and lower wages bring a lower quality of employee.



Unfortunately when I develop a solicitation that is SCA applicable, we have to put in wage determination tables. On top of that, almost every single company thinks the Government wants the lowest bidder. I have worked multiple requirements for shooting instructors and we want contractors to pay their employees more, but for multiple reasons we are prohibited 're saying that in a requirement. Want to make a big change in the way the Government does business? Write your congressmen and tell them to repeal the Competition in Contracting Act.


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## Salt USMC (Oct 6, 2017)

There was some talk about Kaspersky and its vulnerabilities in another thread, which reminded me of this story that came out yesterday that involves our contractor friend here: NSA contractors back in spotlight after reported Russian theft


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## Florida173 (Oct 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> They definitely have a problem, so does the IC writ-large, and the federal government to a lesser extent.  I'm not sure it's a matter of vetting more thoroughly - I don't think contractors as a group of people (certainly as individuals) are better or worse than their government counterparts - it's that they are overused, under-supervised, and poorly integrated.  There is a fundamental structural problem - leaks are just one of the symptoms of the disease IMO.



Since this was brought back to life in regards to the Russian thing.. I have to give a hard disagree on @Il Duce on contractors not being better or worse than their government counterparts. I do agree that they are under-supervised and poorly integrated in some situations though. But this is exactly the reason why contractors are better.. Their government leads are actually the problem. You can't fire govies, but can only move them from team to team.


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## CQB (Oct 6, 2017)

The GIGO principle.


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## Teufel (Oct 6, 2017)

DA SWO are you in the NCR?


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Congress treat contract workers like acquisitions projects, and you get a ton of set-asides, so companies get positions based on small/minority/female/veteran/disabled/ points vice do they know what they are doing.



That's the system being broken. There is a whole feedback loop that if a contract is not being fulfilled through the SLAs, then there needs to be accountability. Accountability of the company and of COR. That's the problem right now. Look at the ISS-J vehicle. One of the worst situations out there and they can only get people to stay because of people not knowing their being taken advantage of, or they've drank the koolaid. At least they are getting good experience.


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## DA SWO (Oct 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> DA SWO are you in the NCR?


No.


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## BloodStripe (Oct 7, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Since this was brought back to life in regards to the Russian thing.. I have to give a hard disagree on @Il Duce on contractors not being better or worse than their government counterparts. I do agree that they are under-supervised and poorly integrated in some situations though. But this is exactly the reason why contractors are better.. Their government leads are actually the problem. You can't fire govies, but can only move them from team to team.



Government employees cannot supervise contract employees, mostly. Under a personal services contract they can, but 99% of service contracts are non personal services contracts.


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

NavyBuyer said:


> Government employees cannot supervise contract employees, mostly. Under a personal services contract they can, but 99% of service contracts are non personal services contracts.


Maybe.. What I've seen in the past 9 years or so was supervised by government employees. The topic is regarding contracts in the IC, and more specifically at NSA. You're telling me that IC contracts aren't supervised? I'm not even allowed in the SCIF without a govie.


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## Teufel (Oct 7, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> No.


I was going to offer a link up!


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## Teufel (Oct 7, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Maybe.. What I've seen in the past 9 years or so was supervised by government employees. The topic is regarding contracts in the IC, and more specifically at NSA. You're telling me that IC contracts aren't supervised? I'm not even allowed in the SCIF without a govie.


Are GGs different than GSs?


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## BloodStripe (Oct 7, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Maybe.. What I've seen in the past 9 years or so was supervised by government employees. The topic is regarding contracts in the IC, and more specifically at NSA. You're telling me that IC contracts aren't supervised? I'm not even allowed in the SCIF without a govie.



A GS cannot directly supervise you. Read up in FAR Part 37. “Nonpersonal services contract” means a contract under which the personnel rendering the services are not subject, either by the contract’s terms or by the manner of its administration, to the supervision and control usually prevailing in relationships between the Government and its employees. Just because a contractor isn't allowed in a SCIF without a GS or Uniformed Service member doesn't mean they are directly supervising you.


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Are GGs different than GSs?



Not that I know of. Difference of agency? I only see GS at SOCOM and TF, but I've heard of GGs.


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

NavyBuyer said:


> A GS cannot directly supervise you. Read up in FAR Part 37. “Nonpersonal services contract” means a contract under which the personnel rendering the services are not subject, either by the contract’s terms or by the manner of its administration, to the supervision and control usually prevailing in relationships between the Government and its employees. Just because a contractor isn't allowed in a SCIF without a GS or Uniformed Service member doesn't mean they are directly supervising you.



Sure. The fact they are in charge of the teams that I'm on means they have my future in their hands. A GS14 being in charge of my team and GS15 being in charge of my branch are the only government employees responsible for the success of the team. If I don't make them happy, they say something and I'm gone. 

We might be disagreeing on semantics that are oblivious to me, and I haven't cared for the pmo side. Now that I'm in the NCR, things haven't changed much. 

Maybe you are thinking of the COR? They seem to have some responsibility, but typically oblivious to anything we do and mainly used for accesses.


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## Teufel (Oct 7, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Not that I know of. Difference of agency? I only see GS at SOCOM and TF, but I've heard of GGs.


GGs are intel


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## Frank S. (Oct 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I was going to offer a link up!


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> GGs are intel



Seeing now that it's excepted service. Make sense in regards to when we were seeing the furlough stuff happening. Didn't really effect us when I was in Tampa, but that was mainly because of the role contractors doing the actual work.


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## Teufel (Oct 7, 2017)

Frank S. said:


>


Lol


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## DA SWO (Oct 8, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I was going to offer a link up!


Bummer.
San Antonio has turned into my boat anchor.


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## BloodStripe (Oct 8, 2017)

Florida173 said:


> Sure. The fact they are in charge of the teams that I'm on means they have my future in their hands. A GS14 being in charge of my team and GS15 being in charge of my branch are the only government employees responsible for the success of the team. If I don't make them happy, they say something and I'm gone.
> 
> We might be disagreeing on semantics that are oblivious to me, and I haven't cared for the pmo side. Now that I'm in the NCR, things haven't changed much.
> 
> Maybe you are thinking of the COR? They seem to have some responsibility, but typically oblivious to anything we do and mainly used for accesses.



No GS employee or military member can fire you, to include the COR. A COR is there to oversee the contract as a technical representative for the contracting officer. While they may be in charge of your team per se, they are not your supervisor. A Government employee or military member can and should get in trouble for turning a nonpersonal services contract into one. It is very difficult from the contracting officer's perspective to get a non personal services contract approved. My reference for all this is I am a Contract Specialist for the Navy who has written a personal services contract for a healthcare professional and  non personal service contracts from as little as one contract employee up to 200 contract employees. I have also given COR training to roughly 25 CORS. If you feel as if you are being supervised by a GS, talk to your companies contract admin person so they can call the COR.


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## Florida173 (Oct 8, 2017)

@NavyBuyer I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm am employee of a company, so of course only my company leadership can fire me.


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## BloodStripe (Oct 8, 2017)

I'm catching what you're saying. I'm just telling you that there is not a single Government employee in that building who is your supervisor. 

No sense in us going round and round on this.


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