# Center Axis Relock (CAR) system



## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

Anyone have experience, opinions, etc with the Center Axis Relock shooting concepts? I have no experience with it. I understand it's a point shooting CQC method of shooting with mixed opinions.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 26, 2009)

There is another thread on here about it; I don't have time to dig it up. 

But the Center Axis Relock shooting concept, to me is a fucking waste of good training time and ammo. Extreme CQB? How about reactionary gaps, what about body armor coverage, what about natural point of aim and why the fuck would you train someone to change from a boxer stance with a rifle to a bladed stance with a pistol? 

I have used it and it was not affective past 10 yards for me and I felt very uncomfortable doing it.:2c:


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## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

J.A.B. said:


> There is another thread on here about it; I don't have time to dig it up.
> 
> But the Center Axis Relock shooting concept, to me is a fucking waste of good training time and ammo. Extreme CQB? How about reactionary gaps, what about body armor coverage, what about natural point of aim and why the fuck would you train someone to change from a boxer stance with a rifle to a bladed stance with a pistol?
> 
> I have used it and it was not affective past 10 yards for me and I felt very uncomfortable doing it.:2c:



I did a search before posting, and didn't see anything. My bad. It's been around a while now, so I was interested to see what opinions had developed now that it's had time to be vetted out a bit. I see more opinions like yours above then I do proponents. Interesting.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 26, 2009)

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12715&highlight=Center+Axis+Relock


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## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12715&highlight=Center+Axis+Relock



Christ my memory sucks. I commented in that thread! :doh:


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 26, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Christ my memory sucks. I commented in that thread! :doh:


That's the best part


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## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> That's the best part



My memory will never suck bad enough to remember how much you suck, or something like that. Don't worry, old age is comin' for you too!


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 26, 2009)

I figure I have a good 10 years or so to go before I need to worry about that


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## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> I figure I have a good 10 years or so to go before I need to worry about that



Don't worry, them 10 years will go by in the blink of an eye. Enjoy while you can! :eek:

PS, the vids up on the other thread are no longer active it appears, so here's some newer ones for those who don't know what I am talking about:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SASDcZFCXzQ"]YouTube - Center Axis Relock Combat High Position[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0UjW-aW-bw&feature=related"]YouTube - CAR Class[/ame]


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## koz (Mar 26, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> Anyone have experience, opinions, etc with the Center Axis Relock shooting concepts? I have no experience with it. I understand it's a point shooting CQC method of shooting with mixed opinions.



IMO - it's crap.  Anyone can hit a target without aiming from 3 feet away.  On his website, there is a video demo.  He has no option of engaging a target to his left (weakside) unless he turns his whole body.  If he engages a target to his right, he reverts back to an isosceles stance.  Plus the entire issue of not effectively using body armor.  

I wouldn't waste my time.  But he IS an "honorary" something of the Tennessee Highway patrol..  :uhh:


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## koz (Mar 26, 2009)

From the videos posted..  
The way the gun is canted, the magwell is away from the shooter adding time to the reload. What was that an 8 second mag change?  speedy.... 

The second video re-emphasizes the point I made before.  Have the students shoot the target two down to their left... I'll bet they can't.  Plus it opens you up to be blindsided from your weakside.

This video "shows" a target to the weakside, but it's only a foot or two feet from center.  Have him engage a target a hit 45deg or even 90deg from his front....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHyPgXPpSpY&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Multiple Bad Guy[/ame]


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## WillBrink (Mar 26, 2009)

koz said:


> From the videos posted..
> The first guy can't reach his spare mags.  Then with the way the gun is canted, the magwell is away from the shooter adding time to the reload. What was that an 8 second mag change?  speedy....
> 
> The second video re-emphasizes the point I made before.  Have the students shoot the target two down to their left... I'll bet they can't.  Plus it opens you up to be blindsided from your weakside.



OK, so it appears in the vacuum that is the range with a paper target in front of you, it works great, but in a dynamic situation, not so much...does that summarize? Watching it, I can see how it would not even work well for say IDPA, where you have multiple targets at different ranges and positions, have to move, etc,.


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## koz (Mar 26, 2009)

WillBrink said:


> OK, so it appears in the vacuum that is the range with a paper target in front of you, it works great, but in a dynamic situation, not so much...does that summarize? Watching it, I can see how it would not even work well for say IDPA, where you have multiple targets at different ranges and positions, have to move, etc,.



Yep and honestly I don't think it's THAT much quicker than other methods.

Ok try this.  You can even do it in your house if you're not shooting.:doh:  Have your gun and a "low ready" near your chest but in an isosceles stance.  Shoot a target 2-3 feet in front of you.  Can you hit it?  You can bring the gun up to eye level if for those head shots just like the people in the video do and you can do it just as fast.  Now doing the same thing - gun at the low ready in isosceles- go to your combat/IDPA/shoot house/360 range and place a target in front of you and perpendicular to you off your left shoulder.  Engage the target to your front and then to your left.  You can still do it.  Now place that target beyond 90 - slightly behind you - you can still engage it with isosceles.


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## Iraq Ninja (Mar 29, 2009)

I thought it was crap till I took over a PSD team in Tallil that happened to have a guy who was trained in it. Matter of fact, he was one of the senior instructors in the system. He trained me up for a year in the system, and I now know it works... for certain situations. 

It is not just about pistol shooting. All in all, it is another tool in the toolbox.


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