# how many jumps in the Q course?



## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

Out of curiosity.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

In Italy for military Static Line Q: five jumps... 3 without weapons (we say "tourist jumps") 1 with rifle and 1 with squad weapon (mortar or machine gun)
The pic shows 2 Q... first one 3 jumps, second (with star) 5 jumps... civilian Q is pratically the first one


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 13, 2011)

Mike, I think he is talking about the Special Forces Qualification “Q” Course, being that he is an Airborne Ranger already.:-";)


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## TLDR20 (Jul 13, 2011)

Depends on how long you are there. You will almost always jump in PLDC/BNCOC, SUT, and Robin Sage. And there are also admin jumps once a month or so while in language. I personally jumped 8 times in the course. When in reality I should have jumped alot more. But they get canceled pretty often, and they are hard to make up.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

JAB said:


> Mike, I think he is talking about the Special Forces Qualification “Q” Course, being that he is an Airborne Ranger already.:-";)


mmmh... I'm afraid you are right....:eek:


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Depends on how long you are there. You will almost always jump in PLDC/BNCOC, SUT, and Robin Sage. And there are also admin jumps once a month or so while in language. I personally jumped 8 times in the course. When in reality I should have jumped alot more. But they get canceled pretty often, and they are hard to make up.


I'm sorry Cback... could you tell me what kind of jumps are? (if it's forbidden no probs) HAHO/HALO?


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## TLDR20 (Jul 13, 2011)

Static line, into the field it will be combat equipment(100 or so pound ruck) otherwise it will be hollywood.


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## Muppet (Jul 13, 2011)

I remember pulling jump coverage for Robin Sage and watched a jumper drift into an F.L.A. because the F.L.A. could not move fast enough, during DRF-7.

F.M.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

SL with ruck.... ok


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> it will be hollywood.


haha.. you are right!...  this is Hollywood... LOL


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## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Depends on how long you are there. You will almost always jump in PLDC/BNCOC, SUT, and Robin Sage. And there are also admin jumps once a month or so while in language. I personally jumped 8 times in the course. When in reality I should have jumped alot more. But they get canceled pretty often, and they are hard to make up.



Jesus Christ.. you guys take your jump status seriously.

In the 75th that once a month to retain jump pay garbage went right out the window. I would jump like 3 times for fixed wing, maybe twice a year. And one or two hollywood jumps in between to justify the jump pay. haha.

How often do you guys jump in Group when on a team?


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## Boon (Jul 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> Jesus Christ.. you guys take your jump status seriously.
> 
> In the 75th that once a month to retain jump pay garbage went right out the window. I would jump like 3 times for fixed wing, maybe twice a year. And one or two hollywood jumps in between to justify the jump pay. haha.
> 
> How often do you guys jump in Group when on a team?



That isn't typical lol.  We usually jumped at least once a month.


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## Johca (Jul 13, 2011)

Must be a wannabe in the above picture who sent it to his or her parents. Must also not be many jumpmasters here as no coment was made of main ripcord not in its proper place. Also not sure if equipment load is rigged properly either, atleast one adjustment strap not secured properly.

Oxygen mask also appears to be improperly sized and fitted.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

Johca said:


> Must be a wannabe in the above picture who sent it to his or her parents. Must also not be many jumpmasters here as no coment was made of main ripcord not in its proper place. Also not sure if equipment load is rigged properly either, atleast one adjustment strap not secured properly.
> 
> Oxygen mask also appears to be improperly sized and fitted.


Bwahahahaha.... you are right mate... you are right..


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## DA SWO (Jul 13, 2011)

AF Guys do it right though.....


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## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> haha.. you are right!... this is Hollywood... LOL


 
This guy is Japanese.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> This guy is Japanese.


haha....why do you say that?... can you see his katana?... LOL


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## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

Of course I could be wrong - I'm just looking at the reflection on the window -the Japanese National flag and their military flag are both visible.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> Of course I could be wrong - I'm just looking at the reflection on the window -the Japanese National flag and their military flag are both visible.


Not at all... he is south american....


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## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

Why do you say that? Because he's dark? RACISt!!!
Oh I kid...

But seriously.. he is japanese. Or a soldier of a South American nation training in Japan. But I doubt it.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

hahaha... no mate... I took this pic last year..LMAO... in Lima


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## Johca (Jul 13, 2011)

REF to AF does it right picture.

Perhaps. ;) Where's the airox VIII or other oygen source for the oxygen mask?

Also he has his wedding band on. A safety issue depending on air temperature at altitude, water temperature and drop zone hazards such as trees but then only some military parachutist have the whole world to include intentional deliberate tree landings as a drop zone. Gloves are required for all tree jumps and generally on jumps to unmarked training DZs and special purpose training DZs. 

(Intentional tree landing drop zone wind limitations for training: MFF-22 knots , SL 17 knots, btw way back in the past prior to 1996 it was 25-knots for MFF and 20 knots for static line).


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## TheSiatonist (Jul 13, 2011)

SOWT said:


> AF Guys do it right though.....



Hahaha... OK. Seriously, did this dude jump with that golf bag on?


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

TheSiatonist said:


> Hahaha... OK. Seriously, did this dude jump with that golf bag on?


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## Johca (Jul 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> Why do you say that? Because he's dark? RACISt!!!





dknob said:


> Oh I kid...


Reference this is Hollywood picture.

Well I said "her" and wannabe because harness is not adjusted correctly and voice will definitely be high pitched as the canopy opens and if it's a HAHO jump above 18,000 feet MSL being done it will be a long and agonizing canopy ride if a nut or two can’t be repositioned.  The pictured jumper had very few jumps if any.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

Johca said:


> Reference this is Hollywood picture.


yes it is... was a demonstration only... to show us their equipments... anyway this guy is real SOF...


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## Johca (Jul 13, 2011)

Even for dog and pony shows to little elementary school kids I and everybody I worked with took a bit more attention to detail when putting equipment on to show-off. The more professional in attention to detail the more likely the cute bad teacher (reference movie) would leave a phone number.


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## Johca (Jul 13, 2011)

BTW the SOWT LT Col jumper would probably get that phone number from bad teacher. :cool:  But not that guy in the other picture.


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## x SF med (Jul 13, 2011)

Damn, Sir...  are those combat golf clubs, or a PING cover for the anti-armor/anti aircraft missile?


SOWT said:


> View attachment 4512 AF Guys do it right though.....


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## DA SWO (Jul 13, 2011)

x SF med said:


> Damn, Sir... are those combat golf clubs, or a PING cover for the anti-armor/anti aircraft missile?


Dude, He's AF and a flyer; you bet yer bippy dem be golf clubs.


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## x SF med (Jul 13, 2011)

SOWT said:


> Dude, He's AF and a flyer; you bet yer bippy dem be golf clubs.



Mark XXXII-a-1, titanium and graphite, combat golf clubs, with a built in ball chasing drone, right?  Or are those still classified and held at Area51?


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## dknob (Jul 13, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> hahaha... no mate... I took this pic last year..LMAO... in Lima



why are there Japanese flags at the scene?


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## AWP (Jul 13, 2011)

dknob said:


> why are there Japanese flags at the scene?



Doesn't Peru have a Japanese Prime Minister or something? My memory is fuzzy.


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## DA SWO (Jul 13, 2011)

x SF med said:


> Mark XXXII-a-1, titanium and graphite, combat golf clubs, with a built in ball chasing drone, right? Or are those still classified and held at Area51?


Actually, the balls have a laser seeker that he paints the flag with, lots of birds/eagles in his game.


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## Viper1 (Jul 13, 2011)

I did 5.  One got canked otherwise it would have been 6.  I've heard some guys get 7


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## Servimus (Jul 13, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Doesn't Peru have a Japanese Prime Minister or something? My memory is fuzzy.


Ton's of Japanese in Peru. Fujimori was their PM or something. More of a dictator I think.

By the looks of the reflection, there's another flag, possibly Peruvian and a bunch of folded up chairs on a lawn. Some time of joint event. Lot of interaction between those two countries due to the Japanese pop in Peru.


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## 275ANGER! (Jul 14, 2011)

dknob said:


> Jesus Christ.. you guys take your jump status seriously.
> 
> In the 75th that once a month to retain jump pay garbage went right out the window. I would jump like 3 times for fixed wing, maybe twice a year. And one or two hollywood jumps in between to justify the jump pay. haha.
> 
> How often do you guys jump in Group when on a team?



I didn't jump for almost a year! Between deployment and the detours in Ranger School it was like 10 months or something close. Had a couple jumps canceled and did not do any jumps in school. I was lucky enough to come back from school and do a water jump as my first one back in the mix of things.


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## mike_cos (Jul 14, 2011)

dknob said:


> why are there Japanese flags at the scene?





Freefalling said:


> Doesn't Peru have a Japanese Prime Minister or something? My memory is fuzzy.





Servimus said:


> Ton's of Japanese in Peru. Fujimori was their PM or something. More of a dictator I think.
> 
> By the looks of the reflection, there's another flag, possibly Peruvian and a bunch of folded up chairs on a lawn. Some time of joint event. Lot of interaction between those two countries due to the Japanese pop in Peru.



No secret.. I will post more pics so you'll understand... anyway FF and Servimus are right.. Fujimori was PM of Perù.


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## dknob (Jul 14, 2011)

regardless who the PM of Peru is.. you don't implement your own flags to a different country.


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## mike_cos (Jul 14, 2011)

Well, this is the flag that looked like that of Japan...







and this is battle's flag... LOL






I was here...


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## dknob (Jul 14, 2011)

lol a picture is worth a thousand words. thank you for clearing it up!


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## dknob (Jul 14, 2011)

speaking of South American SOF units. How are the junglas doing in Afghanistan?


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## TLDR20 (Jul 14, 2011)

Junglas? Which countries?


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## dknob (Jul 14, 2011)

Colombia


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 14, 2011)

Boon said:


> That isn't typical lol. We usually jumped at least once a month.



Little over 6 years, 64 jumps total.... sounds about right.  That's even being primarily an air-lando commando in Aco. I understand things change with mission focus and all that crap, but food for thought with jump proficency... There's guys running around in Regiment with how many mustard stains?

Getting rusty on jumping is something that can be very expensive in terms of life, equipment, or time spent healing back up. More so than the associated costs both fiscal and physical with maintaining jump proficiency.

Just what I think.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 14, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> Little over 6 years, 64 jumps total.... sounds about right. That's even being primarily an air-lando commando in Aco. I understand things change with mission focus and all that crap, but food for thought with jump proficency... There's guys running around in Regiment with how many mustard stains?
> 
> Getting rusty on jumping is something that can be very expensive in terms of life, equipment, or time spent healing back up. More so than the associated costs both fiscal and physical with maintaining jump proficiency.
> 
> Just what I think.



I agree to a certain extent, but also disagree greatly. DZ link ups and continuing a mission are great training events. However hollywood jumps, or even admin equipment jumps are a huge waste of time and money in my mind. How many times do I need to put on a harness and make sure that gravity still works. I think once a year is a pretty good number for that. But instead I have to jump a minimum of four times, but more like 6 or 7. Seems like about 6 times what is really needed for 95% of the army. Ranger Regiment and maybe 11B's/combat arms being an exception because you all have a legit mission that is focused on the forced entry. But an entire base filled with pog ass airborne qual'd cooks and admin clerks is out of hand to me.

Not to mention the pay, which is probably a whole lot of money in itself, but how much money is spent on C-17's and -130's so that people who sit at a desk 90% of the time can fall out of an airplane? I am sure it is a lot of money.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 15, 2011)

Well, I can count the number of admin equip/hollywood jumps I've done without taking my shoes off... If we jumped, we linked up and did tactical movement. Completely admin jumps were 'fun jumps' the few times we had them... like helo jumps, etc. Even those, you're still conducting linkup if you're in the line companies.

That, and the AF needs all the practice they can get on doing drops anyway.  Boon... how many times did we get dropped 'wrong'?


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## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

dknob said:


> speaking of South American SOF units. How are the junglas doing in Afghanistan?


Counterdrugs Ops?....


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## Boon (Jul 15, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> That, and the AF needs all the practice they can get on doing drops anyway. Boon... how many times did we get dropped 'wrong'?



Your guess is as good as mine.  The best one was probably on that highway.


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## AWP (Jul 15, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> That, and the AF needs all the practice they can get on doing drops anyway. Boon... how many times did we get dropped 'wrong'?



CARP drops?


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 15, 2011)

Boon said:


> Your guess is as good as mine. The best one was probably on that highway.



Oh lord... don't remind me about that night... I didn't even jump that night and it still scares the shit out of me thinking about it.
DZSO to me as RTO: "Cleared to drop"
me: "Bird this is me, cleared to drop"
bird: LOL FUCK CARP GREEN LIGHT GO GO GO
Jumpmasters: Derp it's green, must be time to get out, unass this bird men!

me with NV down, seeing the first chute open a couple miles off the dz: "ABORT ABORT ABORT"
DZSO: "Aww fuck."



Freefalling said:


> CARP drops?



That would be the most reliably fucked up one out of the bunch. Late greens/reds from a crew not abiding by airspeed and DZ timing, totally blowing off where the DZ actually is, etc etc.


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## surgicalcric (Jul 15, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> ...That would be the most reliably fucked up one out of the bunch. Late greens/reds from a crew not abiding by airspeed and DZ timing, totally blowing off where the DZ actually is, etc etc.



The entire world is an acceptable DZ when you are pilots...sorry muther-fuckers.

Anyone here ever jumped the DZ in Tolema, Colombia from a MC-130...  Those fuckers have no idea about what an acceptable airspeed looks like after cresting the mountain...

Crip


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## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2011)

I would honestly take the reduction in pay I I wasnt forced to waste a day of my life every few months to go sit on a wet dropzone, knowing full well the night before we are not going to jump the next day. But syltill low and behold, there I am wasting both my, and the armys time and resources


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## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> The entire world is an acceptable DZ when you are pilots...sorry muther-fuckers.
> 
> Anyone here ever jumped the DZ in Tolema, Colombia from a MC-130...  Those fuckers have no idea about what an acceptable airspeed looks like after cresting the mountain...
> 
> Crip



You mean tolemaida? Yes I have jumped there, best jump of my career.


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## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

CARP = wrong DZ, trees.....   Danger Danger Will Robinson!


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## DA SWO (Jul 15, 2011)

Tamara in Honduras?  That was an interesting jump; thank god 20th SFG had the A-list JM's.


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## surgicalcric (Jul 15, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> You mean tolemaida? Yes I have jumped there, best jump of my career.



Yeah Tolemaida...

That was the worst jump I have made...well except for having been a towed jumper and having a canopy collapse...

My favorites have been water jumps at Hurlburt...they hurt less!

Crip


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## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> Yeah Tolemaida...
> 
> That was the worst jump I have made...well except for having been a towed jumper and having a canopy collapse...
> 
> ...



You were a towed jumper!


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## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> You were a towed jumper!



I still have the reserve handle I pulled....  what's it to you?  In 186 jumps, I had one that required prayer and emergency procedures (concurrently) during descent (crappy packing job by the rigging shed, half collapsed mae west and blown gores...)  you never had any kind of malfunction?


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## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

...I'm touching my balls....


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## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> ...I'm touching my balls....



WTF?  :confused::-|


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## Boon (Jul 15, 2011)

:-|:confused:


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## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

x SF med said:


> WTF? :confused::-|


It's an italian superstitious motto...
Last year.. during MFF... look at this closed package...


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## surgicalcric (Jul 15, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> You were a towed jumper!



Yep...poor static line control by the jumper to my front...not a good situation.


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## Chopstick (Jul 15, 2011)

x SF med said:


> WTF? :confused::-|


At least he isnt touching yours.  :eek:


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## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

Chopstick said:


> At least he isnt touching yours. :eek:


Hey chop this time is not the typical italian dish...


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## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2011)

x SF med said:


> I still have the reserve handle I pulled....  what's it to you?  In 186 jumps, I had one that required prayer and emergency procedures (concurrently) during descent (crappy packing job by the rigging shed, half collapsed mae west and blown gores...)  you never had any kind of malfunction?



Holy shit brother, that sucks, I haven't had any malfunctions(knock on wood).


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## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Holy shit brother, that sucks, I haven't had any malfunctions(knock on wood).



Hell...  Crip had two...  I have a buddy who had 'static line wrap' and the scars on his bicep to prove it  (hey, Chief were you still at Devens when Davey P had that little mishap?)...

Had 2 guys in Sage who got tossed early into a clear cut/felling area, there was cliff and downed trees in the leading edge of the DZ, one broken back, one broken femur.  and you know how much crap you're packing on the infil jump at Sage.

After I reclassed to 18D I got tasked to set up a jump - at o530 SGM said, "we have 5x 130's; and 250 available chutes...  We're jumping this afternoon - I'll let the CO know he's SR JM, we need 8 more, i'm AJM on the CO's bird...  we need SOWT with a pie-ball NLT 1000 to get a first fix on winds...  get trucks, call the Hospital to lay on medics, the Company except for you two are jumping, let B Co know they have 20 slots, no JM slots and need to task a driver - Motor Pool gets max 1o slots and we need whatever vehicles they can get us...  the Hospital gets 5 slots if they have any ABN qualified people on orders...  Let the Rigger shed know you will have people there at 1000 to run ititials/count/and check the load area...  we;'re doing pre-jump here at 0930...   that's your warno, frago, opord....  GO, NOW....

It got laid on all was working nicely, I had no med gear with me...  I was a DZ monkey - and had to get out to the DZ by 0900 to walk it (Turner at Devens was a treacherous little DZ - ask Warchief if you don't believe me)  ....  the DZ walked out clear, normal obstacles (including the ravine that split the DZ that was surrouned by trees and hardball).

We did not get any ambulances - just Deuce and a halves - all of the crackerboxes were out at the ranges (Reserves, Sig School, and MIdet were all out at the ranges...).   We got 3 brand new leg 91A's and 91B's for the 'medical' support...

T/D/CE with movement back to Co Area from rally ... 4 birds, no issues...  last bird....  one injury...  a nice lower leg SNAFU...  tib/fib/calcaneus and malleolar  involvement  (heel/ankle/shin for you non medics), closed, immediate bruising and edema, pain at about a 7 for a real badass....  not a good deal...  the 'medics' who had been through the "DZ medicine/Jump trauma" classes from the Hospital (required since there was an ABN unit on Post)  got there and started working...  SGM sent me over to see what was up...  I told him to send over one of the deuces....  as Iwas running up I saw a Thomas Traction splint being taken out of the box by our 'medical crew' :eek:  that screamed FEMUR to me...  I asked them what was up and was the femur break open or closed...  they said they had it under control...  they had a closed break but it was a jump injury and their leg 1SG said itf a leg is broken on the DZ, use the Thomas... :confused:  this is a really bad idea for a closed multiple involvement Fx of the distal portion of the lower leg/ankle heel  since the Thomas slint can apply enough traction to reset an elephant's femur...  essentially, it will rip the guy's foot off and pull the bones of the tib fib break apart, and crush the broken part of the heel due to the attachments....
My buddy on the ground looked like he was hurting and not really confident in the abilities of the 'medics' there...  I don't fault him for that...  after getting the history/dx, I asked them why they were using the Thomas - " it's a broken leg on a DZ, we are required to use the Thomas."  I told them in exactly this many words...  Get Fucked, you are not completing treatment, I'm taking over - which was argued...  I got the CO on my radio to relieve them of care on the Pt after I explained what was going on... but kept them for their equipment....  no ladder splints, no paddle splints, no Ace bandages....  A friggin brand new Thomas in a box...  in a box!...   Hey, guys give me your belts, give me a BDU top or two, hand me the cardboard box....  out with the knife...  slash, slash, trim trim...   fold, pad, fit,  and lash.....  Voila, the homeless splint (I never got my rigger belt back, dammit, lost a knife and a flashlight too)  and transport is possible...  in a deuce, 1/2 way up the DZ, Turner DZ...  1/4 mile of ruts, rocks, and potholes to the road, then a rutted road for 3mi...  to a decent road for 15 miles to the hospital...   The ER Doc was astounded at the splint...  especially since it said right on the side he could see "Thomas Medical Equipment, Splint, Traction 600lb torque capacity, folding version NSN......   "   he got my notes...he got the story...  he told the 3 leg medics to wait until he was done treating this guy....  I never saw them again....

and that's what can happen jumping...


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## AWP (Jul 15, 2011)

My one experience with a CARP was to avoid them at all costs.

I was still a cherry jumper, FRESH out of Benning, and Friday night at formation our 1SG said that some LRS guys were down and going to jump, did any of us want to make a jump?

A bunch of hands go up including mine.
"Nighttime."
A few go down.
"C-141"
More go down.
"Combat equipment"
More go down, and I'm wondering WTF is going on.
"CARP"
Almost all go down except mine when I hear someone in my SIGDET
"If you don't put your hand down I'll put it down for you."
No hands were left so I asked our JM's what was up and they explained CARP to me.

Formation Sat. morning asked for volunteers to meet the riggers at the DZ. It seems they were up most of the night recovering jumpers, chutes, and equipment. Special emphasis was placed on those with chainsaw skillz.....


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 15, 2011)

x SF med said:


> I still have the reserve handle I pulled.... what's it to you? In 186 jumps, I had one that required prayer and emergency procedures (concurrently) during descent (crappy packing job by the rigging shed, half collapsed mae west and blown gores...) you never had any kind of malfunction?



In my meager amount of jumps the worst things I had happen was getting KTFO by a C-5, and having 2 blown panels in my T-10 my 2nd jump in airborne school.

The softest landing I ever had was a tree landing on the edge of Fryar, the tree was about 15 feet taller than the height of an outstretched canopy and as such, when I came in through the trees, the tree my chute caught on bent over and set me right down on my fingertips. I tried tugging to get it down, then laughed and muttered "Sucks to be DZ Detail today" as I tucked my head and pulled both my canopy releases, slingshotting it nicely up into a 4 tree mess.

Engineer tape around the tree, shot an azimuth, engineer tape around a big bush with a back azimuth and pace count, and let the DZ detail I passed know about it on my way to my RP.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 16, 2011)

Worst jump I had should have been the best. UH60 jump, but I failed to properly secure my junk and had a horrible ride down. Didn't even grab toggles, just kept my nuts out of the harness all the way down


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