# 'Zero Dark Thirty' hunts for Bin Laden -- and more



## Ravage (Dec 8, 2012)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ero-dark-thirty-20121209,0,1195591,full.story







In 2008, the screenwriter Mark Boal sought an appointment with a retired special-forces operator. Boal was researching a movie about the fruitless search for Osama bin Laden in the caves of Tora Bora six years before, and he wanted insight into how U.S. forces gathered intelligence.

The agent agreed to meet, but under strict conditions. Boal would be kept in the dark about where the encounter would take place until just before, when he'd be given directions, via GPS, to what turned out to be a gas station. The meeting would be brief, and there would be no guarantee of an information exchange.

"I showed up and there's this guy by the pump wearing sunglasses," Boal recalled in an interview. "And the first thing he said was, 'Give me a good reason why I should talk to you.' And I'm like, 'Well, nice to meet you too, sir.'" Boal eventually cultivated other sources, acknowledging that as a Hollywood screenwriter it isn't always easy emulating Bob Woodward.'

The zigzag-y process that began at the gas station culminates in the groundbreaking "Zero Dark Thirty," Boal and director Kathryn Bigelow's searing dramatization of a different U.S. mission to target Bin Laden that ended successfully last year in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

When Sony Pictures releases the tense, dense movie on Dec. 19, "Zero Dark Thirty" likely will take its place alongside classics of war cinema such as "The Dirty Dozen," "Apocalypse Now" and "Saving Private Ryan" while simultaneously redefining the form. Few Hollywood action thrillers have contained so many documentary-style aspirations to truth and urgency — and so quickly after an epochal event, to boot.

And never before has a stone-cold-serious American war drama featured a woman both behind the camera and at its center.

"Zero Dark Thirty," in other words, could well stand at the vanguard of a new genre: the viscerally human but post-feminist (and post-political) war film.

Unfolding chronologically over roughly eight years, "Zero Dark" tells of Maya (a determined and increasingly weathered Jessica Chastain). The character — Chastain says she is "100% a real person" —works as a mid-level CIA operative at the U.S. embassy in Islamabad. It's there that, with the help of a seasoned interrogator (Jason Clarke) operating under an ethically questionable U.S. detainee program, she gets wind of an Al Qaeda courier she believes is the key to finding Bin Laden.

For its first two hours, Bigelow's movie follows Maya as she chases down leads across Central Asia, enduring institutional indifference and worse in the quest for the jihad era's white whale. For the last 35 minutes, "Zero Dark" offers us the fruits of her efforts: the prelude to, and spectacle of, the raid that has Navy SEALs striking Bin Laden's Pakistan compound at half past midnight (the coded "Zero Dark Thirty").

The movie, which was just named the year's best picture by the New York Film Critics Circle and the National Board of Review, has an uncommon interest in the nitty-gritty of government intelligence (the closest screen comparison might be "Homeland," in which another lone-wolf female CIA agent is obsessed with a major terrorist figure). It marries that scut work with the neo-_vérité_ imagery of war—night-vision grittiness and in-your-face torture scenes.

"I wanted to peel back the curtain on tactics within the intelligence community and what it would take to find a very sharp needle in a very large haystack," Bigelow said in an interview. "Then I wanted to show what would happen when they did."

Making a modern war movie isn't easy. There are the ambiguities of contemporary conflict to capture. There are the band-of-brothers clichés to avoid. There's keeping the real and the sensational in balance.

"Zero Dark" faced extra obstacles. Bigelow and Boal — who with 2009's The Hurt Locker" won a best picture Oscar for depicting an obsessive bomb-defusal specialist in Iraq — were keen to make a real-life movie about our inability to capture Bin Laden, a kind of companion piece of existential futility.

Watching coverage of the Bin Laden killing in May 2011, Bigelow described feeling "an obligation to go forward" with a project they'd been working on intermittently for nearly three years.

But there was a problem. The script she and Boal had been developing had nothing to do with the successful mission. And Boal didn't want to invent: As a reporter who had written military-themed stories for Playboy and others, he prided himself on incorporating journalism into his films.

So he ripped up his script and started again, hitting the pavement and meeting with old sources. "I wanted to approach the story as a screenwriter but do the homework as a reporter," he said.

Boal had a narrative problem too; it's not as if the ending would surprise anyone. His solution was to concentrate on the mechanics — what circuitous path led to Bin Laden and who was brave or contrarian enough to follow it. "We know how 'Lincoln' ends," Boal said when asked how he circumvented the problem, "and it's still pretty interesting to watch."

Meanwhile, the clock was ticking. In the works were a number of books about the hunt as well as other filmic efforts, including this fall's "SEAL Team Six: The Raid on Osama bin Laden," a hastily produced affair from Nicholas Chartier, Bigelow and Boal's estranged producer on "The Hurt Locker."

The filmmakers picked up the pace. "Zero Dark" began shooting nine months after Boal started his script and is reaching theaters just 10 months after that. It's a peculiar combination: a film with the heft of a slow-cooker but the timing of a cable-television headline-chaser.

"Zero Dark" was also facing a political tempest. In the summer of 2011, Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.), chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, called for an investigation into whether the Obama administration had given "Zero Dark" filmmakers access to classified information. Judicial Watch, a conservative watchdog group, has added its own questions. (Boal and Bigelow have maintained that the administration did not give them any special access and that they followed the proper procedures working with government agencies.)

But perhaps the biggest challenge "Zero Dark" faced was internal. Bigelow wanted the film, budgeted at a bit more than $40 million and financed by the emerging film magnate Megan Ellison, to feel as authentic as possible, giving filmgoers the sense they were witnessing the raid as it happened. She began to discard film conventions.

To re-create a view through night-vision goggles, for instance, most directors would shoot normally, then doctor the images in postproduction. Bigelow decided to rig the cameras themselves with night-vision technology so we would see the raid much as the SEALs did.

"There's a reason you don't hear about it done this way — it's a lot more risky," said Greig Fraser, the film's cinematographer. "Especially when you're in a desert and Black Hawk helicopters are kicking sand into the cameras."

Rather than build Bin Laden's compound in pieces on a sound stage, Bigelow also decided to re-create it in its entirety in the Jordanian desert. That allowed her a big advantage: Instead of cutting and pasting the scene together in the editing room, she could have the actors move through the space in just a few continuous takes, enhancing the realism. Crew members began analyzing photos and diagrams, from the house's labyrinthine layout to the Pakistani art on the walls.

"There were some white-knuckle moments," Bigelow said of the decision to build a replica of the stone compound from scratch in just 10 weeks. "We wanted the movie to feel as naturalistic as possible. But naturalism takes work."

The crew also scoured the Web to find authentic depictions of interrogation and torture. A photo or an account was parsed then re-created, so that when a detainee is choked or beaten (faint-hearted viewers, beware) the event is portrayed as accurately as possible.

"You couldn't do any of this making 'Apocalypse Now,'" said Jeremy Hindle, "Zero Dark's" production designer. "It would have taken you two years of going to a single research library to see sanctioned photos. [But] you'd be amazed at what's on the personal websites of soldiers these days." (Trawling the Web for torture images also has its downside: it sufficiently alarmed the Jordanian government that for a brief period they appeared to shut down the crew's Internet access.)
Bigelow even even insisted on the plant life being true to the compound’s leafy surroundings in the Pakistani suburbs—requiring water tankers to roll in every day to irrigate the desert.

In front of the camera, things were also getting intense. As a grizzled interrogator, Clarke was called upon to simulate waterboarding and half-naked beatings. Because the scenes demanded a brutal authenticity, the actor and his on-screen victims soon developed a set of safe words. "It you heard the other guy saying your name, you stopped right away," Clarke said.

For her part, Chastain admired the casual gender-agnosticism of Boal's script and sought to emphasize that in her performance. "Maya isn't defined by a relationship to a man or is a victim of a man or protected by a man or mentored by a man. There's no boyfriend who rubs her back when she comes home from work," the actress said. "I don't think [people] have experienced that in a [war] movie."

But there's a fundamental question many viewers will ask: Is Maya, who has a decidedly Hollywood-friendly arc, real?

"No Easy Day," by the pseudonymous SEAL Mark Owen, refers to Jen, a character Chastain says she believes is Maya. Chastain said she didn't meet with Maya but, perhaps leery of questions about the film's access to intelligence sources, paused awkwardly then declined to answer when asked if she had ever corresponded with her. (Both Chastain and Boal cite a strong desire not to expose the agent, who is still an active member of the CIA.)

Asked how true to life all the Maya details are, Boal said: "I don't know if I can put a percent on it. She's a character in a film. But she's also based on reporting and firsthand accounts." Overall, he said, he tightened and tweaked to tell a decade-long story in less than three hours but still hewed as closely as possible to what happened.

Of course, the idea of a cinematic drama with truth-telling ambitions raises some issues — most important, that the form inherently clouds the journalism.

"It's a movie that's not a documentary," said the reporter and author Peter Maass, who has covered wars for the New Yorker and others and has seen this film. "So there's no way to know whether the areas that are new are also the areas that have been fictionalized."

When Steven Spielberg released "Saving Private Ryan," critics hailed the film as unprecedented in its portrayal of the brutality of battle. More than a half-century of war movies, many said, had never re-created conflict in such a grand or convincing way.

With "The Hurt Locker" and now "Zero Dark," Bigelow has taken war cinema in the opposite direction. She wants to show the treacherous topography of battle on a small, personal scale: the tense moments of uncertainty, the painful jolts of entrapment.

The sweep and schmaltz of many Hollywood war pictures are gone; instead Bigelow's films channel the spirit of nuanced war movies such as "Bridge on the River Kwai" and combine it with a first-person 21st century technique.

There is also a less discussed side of battle on display.

"Bigelow's movies are about the atrocity and horror, but there's another theme that comes through: the absolute physically addictive pleasure that war can bring to the people fighting it," said Robert Burgoyne, an expert on war films and the chair in film studies at Scotland's University of St. Andrews. "It's more honest."

Indeed, at times "Zero Dark" is stylistically of a piece not just with documentaries but first-person shooter video games, which of course bring pleasure to millions every day. And though Bigelow is not the only recent filmmaker to attempt it — Paul Greengrass in "Green Zone" and Brian De Palma in "Redacted" have similar ambitions — few have done this level of research or gone for such an exacting degree of authenticity.

Burgyone also notes that a previous generation of war films — particularly a class of 1980s movies from the likes of Oliver Stone and Stanley Kubrick — took an implicit position that's lacking here. "The general frame through most of our major Vietnam war films is blatantly antiwar," he said. "Bigelow's films give you a sense of the war experience without an obvious pro or anti sentiment in the background."

If there's a lesson at all, it's simply about the complex mechanics (and, in some cases, blind luck) required to successfully target a terrorist.Yet despite a lack of explicit politics, "Zero Dark" may still carry a message — just a more ambiguous one.

"At the end Maya gets on a plane after the raid and is asked, 'Where do you want to go?' And she realizes she has no idea," Chastain said. "This is about more than Maya," she said after a pause. "It's about where we want to go as a country now that Bin Laden has been killed."


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## TH15 (Dec 8, 2012)

Sounds like she milked some of the interrogation scenes.


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## goon175 (Dec 8, 2012)

> The agent agreed to meet, but under strict conditions. Boal would be kept in the dark about where the encounter would take place until just before, when he'd be given directions, via GPS, to what turned out to be a gas station. The meeting would be brief, and there would be no guarantee of an information exchange.
> 
> "I showed up and there's this guy by the pump wearing sunglasses," Boal recalled in an interview. "And the first thing he said was, 'Give me a good reason why I should talk to you.'


 
......Give me a break



> the absolute physically addictive pleasure that war can bring to the people fighting it," said Robert Burgoyne


 
I didn't think anyone outside of the military community realized something like that existed...

Also, it does seem like they may be sensationalizing the torture scenes, but we won't know until we see it.


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## AWP (Dec 11, 2012)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

She can find Bin Laden but she isn't good with Outlook. Reply to All kills another.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...gent-depicted-zero-dark-thirty-172706490.html



> The Post reports that the operative and several other agents were awarded the CIA's Distinguished Intelligence Medal, one of the agency's highest honors. However, after an email was sent to staff members announcing the award, *the agent hit the reply-all button and expressed her feelings that only she was worthy of the award*. A former CIA official quoted by the Post said her response could be summed up with: "You guys tried to obstruct me. You fought me. Only I deserve the award."


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## Chopstick (Dec 11, 2012)

Do you think she did it on purpose?


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## goon175 (Dec 11, 2012)

She's a feisty one. I wonder if thats why she's a red head in the movie?


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## AWP (Dec 11, 2012)

goon175 said:


> She's a feisty one. I wonder if thats why she's a red head in the movie?


 
If Outlook's kicking her ass then she needs to be a blonde.


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## Ravage (Dec 11, 2012)

Still think the movie makers read Owens book. They even had the helo crash head count part from Chalk One.


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## goon175 (Dec 11, 2012)

Has any had the chance to use those new 4-barrel NODs? Seems like they would be heavy as hell and require a crazy counter weight on the back of the helmet to keep the weight evenly distributed on the head?


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## AWP (Dec 11, 2012)

They're probably made from unobtainium and tanned unicorn hides which means the only people who can afford the real versions are SOCOM and AWP's.


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## dknob (Dec 11, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Has any had the chance to use those new 4-barrel NODs? Seems like they would be heavy as hell and require a crazy counter weight on the back of the helmet to keep the weight evenly distributed on the head?


 
the PNVGs (4-tubed) weigh at 27.7 ounces

the AVS9s (aka 23s) that CAG and ST6 have used for the longest time throughout the GWOT weigh in at 22+ ounces.

The dual nods that Regiment has, PVS-15s are 22.9 ounces


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Dec 11, 2012)

goon175 said:


> She's a feisty one. I wonder if thats why she's a red head in the movie?


 
Red head's always get you in trouble my friend.


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## goon175 (Dec 11, 2012)

So 5 more ounces, I guess thats not that bad?


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## Salt USMC (Dec 11, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> They're probably made from unobtainium and tanned unicorn hides which means the only people who can afford the real versions are SOCOM and AWP's.


I bet the unicorn hides are sourced from North Korea


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## Ravage (Dec 11, 2012)

Tubes seems to be available:

http://www.l3warriorsystems.com/l3-products/gpnvg


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## Worldweaver (Dec 11, 2012)

dknob said:


> the PNVGs (4-tubed) weigh at 27.7 ounces
> 
> the AVS9s (aka 23s) that CAG and ST6 have used for the longest time throughout the GWOT weigh in at 22+ ounces.
> 
> The dual nods that Regiment has, PVS-15s are 22.9 ounces


 
AN/AVS 6 are 21.1 oz,  always liked these better than 15's and had the battery pack as a counter.   Weight difference is negligible though, until hour 5...or 6


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## Ravage (Dec 11, 2012)

You probably have to do a lot of neck exercises before and after......especially after ?


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## BillyC1636 (Dec 11, 2012)

Ravage said:


> Tubes seems to be available:
> 
> http://www.l3warriorsystems.com/l3-products/gpnvg


 
Also

http://tnvc.com/shop/l-3-gpnvg-18/


Looking forward to the movie.


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## Brian1/75 (Dec 11, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Has any had the chance to use those new 4-barrel NODs? Seems like they would be heavy as hell and require a crazy counter weight on the back of the helmet to keep the weight evenly distributed on the head?


They were originally made for fighter pilots that have to be able to pull multiple G turns. My last deployment I tried on a set for a minute and I'm about positive they were lighter than 15s. Apparently, they aren't, but I guess with the seperate battery pack they felt better.


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## Salt USMC (Dec 11, 2012)

I'd just kill for some counterweights for regular old PVS-14s


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## TheSiatonist (Dec 12, 2012)

Imagine the Taliban/AQ's horror when the raiders appear out of nowhere in the pitch black night looking like this:







The survivors (if there'd by any) would probably say: "I am telling you, Azziz! The raiders that came to the safe house -- they had _FOUR EYES_!!"


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## RetPara (Dec 12, 2012)

TheSiatonist said:


> Imagine the Taliban/AQ's horror when the raiders appear out of nowhere in the pitch black night looking like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





Am I the only one seeing a distant family resemblance here......


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## dknob (Dec 12, 2012)

they definitely don't look. and that breaks a sacred SOF rule

I never did much like the look of the mp7 either.
Why couldn't they just upgrade the mp5 and keep the same feel?


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## JBS (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm still amazed that the gear revealed in all of this was allowed to be released to the public.  Even to my untrained eye, I can see a capability in those optical devices that I didn't know existed until they were shown in the promotional material for the film.


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## Worldweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

JBS said:


> I'm still amazed that the gear revealed in all of this was allowed to be released to the public. Even to my untrained eye, I can see a capability in those optical devices that I didn't know existed until they were shown in the promotional material for the film.


 
I thought "No Easy Day" had pictures of the gear?


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## JBS (Dec 12, 2012)

Worldweaver said:


> I thought "No Easy Day" had pictures of the gear?


I think you're right, but I avoided Bissonette's book.

All I've read about it has been from blogs and the like. He went well into TTP's and extraordinary detail (most of it simply not needed to tell the story) even in interviews with journalists:

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/books/what-to-wear-to-kill-osama-bin-laden.php

Note top shelf:


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## Worldweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

I haven't read the book either but I remember that picture from the book thread.


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## DasBoot (Dec 12, 2012)

I've seen the four tube NODs in pics from well before the OBL raid.


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## Ravage (Dec 12, 2012)

There are photos of A-10 and F-16 pilots using them as far as 2005.


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## Worldweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

DasBoot said:


> I've seen the four tube NODs in pics from well before the OBL raid.


Correct, my point was that this was recently tied to the OBL raid prior to the stills from the film.


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## JBS (Dec 12, 2012)

DasBoot said:


> I've seen the four tube NODs in pics from well before the OBL raid.





Ravage said:


> There are photos of A-10 and F-16 pilots using them as far as 2005.


Would you mind posting a link to any of those if you happen to have some handy?

I've seen some specialized optics that vaguely resembled them, but these particular devices I'd never seen before. Granted, of course that doesn't say much, since I'm nowhere near as active in the military online community as others might be.  If I see pics of these particular optics from 2005, then I'd be much more open about what I've noticed, since it means the existence and design of the devices would have been in the public domain for at the very least almost 9 years.

EDITED TO ADD:* NVM*> I found a press release from 2005.  Anyway, /THREAD HIJACK

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123010365


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## DasBoot (Dec 12, 2012)

JBS said:


> Would you mind posting a link to any of those if you happen to have some handy?
> 
> I've seen some specialized optics that vaguely resembled them, but these particular devices I'd never seen before. Granted, of course that doesn't say much, since I'm nowhere near as active in the military online community as others might be.  If I see pics of these particular optics from 2005, then I'd be much more open about what I've noticed, since it means the existence and design of the devices would have been in the public domain for at the very least almost 9 years.
> 
> ...


https://shadowspear.com/vb/threads/navy-seal-pix.6488/page-2 there's the thread from January 2011


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 12, 2012)

JBS said:


> I think you're right, but I avoided Bissonette's book.
> 
> All I've read about it has been from blogs and the like. He went well into TTP's and extraordinary detail (most of it simply not needed to tell the story) even in interviews with journalists:
> 
> ...


 
The paint brush?


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## Brian1/75 (Dec 12, 2012)

dknob said:


> they definitely don't look. and that breaks a sacred SOF rule
> 
> I never did much like the look of the mp7 either.
> Why couldn't they just upgrade the mp5 and keep the same feel?


The mp5 has a 8.9" barrel with overall length while collapsed of 21.7". The MP7 has a 7.1" barrel with a 16.3" overall length collapsed. That's a loss of 1.8" of barrel, but 5.4" of overall length by just feeding the magazine through the pistol grip. The cartridge in the MP7 is about .5" longer too. The MAC-10 has an overall length of 11.6" and a 4.49" barrel. The MP-7 is a machine pistol with a nice buttstock that can reach out to 200m.


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## dknob (Dec 12, 2012)

Ravage said:


> There are photos of A-10 and F-16 pilots using them as far as 2005.


que ??


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## Ravage (Dec 13, 2012)

dknob said:


> que ??


 
Here it is:



JBS said:


> http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123010365


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## dknob (Dec 13, 2012)

this is all moot, we all know they used contact lense night vision technology as reported by some random blog the day after.


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## AWP (Dec 13, 2012)

I think the most awesome thing in that picture is the sewing machine.


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## Salt USMC (Dec 13, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> I think the most awesome thing in that picture is the sewing machine.


 Did not even notice that!  I wonder what kind of indoc the DEVGRU seamstresses have!


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## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2012)

OMG NERD BONER FULL RAGE ON NEW TRAILER SO RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME MY FACE EXPLODIA;EIJF[OJIQ34JT9]AR'OPVIMNAERV'POIJAGR'





 
Ahem, I am very excited for this film. I don't even care if they ride dragons in with Vampires providing overwatch and Sauron providing ISR- this thing looks amazing.


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## Ravage (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm just in it for the sexy CIA chick and the final raid. There I said it!


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## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2012)

TheSiatonist said:


> Imagine the Taliban/AQ's horror when the raiders appear out of nowhere in the pitch black night looking like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually saw a quote about this very thing, and I wanna say Iraq around 2004-ish, taken from a guy they took off target. Later in the interview, he was asked to give an account of the raid. I'll paraphrase, cause I can't remember the specific quote. 

"They came in the night, silently. They were huge- terrifying. I could not move. Swift, terrifying giants- and they brought lions with them." 

He was talking about the assaulter's dogs. He didn't believe them when they told him they were dogs, and not lions. I don't care if that story isn't 100% true, that's just awesome.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 15, 2012)

Did anyone notice the choral rendition of _Nothing Else Matters_ being sung in the back ground?  
Can't wait for this movie to come out.


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## Worldweaver (Dec 15, 2012)

Just read the review for this movie in Rolling Stone (yes, I subscribe) and I must admit, I'm looking forward to it.  Peter Travers is usually the only movie critic that I'll put stock into, and he rated it 4/4 stars.  Consequently it could be a major pile of shit (see also: Hurt Locker) but I'll be seeing it when it opens.


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## goon175 (Dec 15, 2012)

I can't remember if I said this before or not, but if you can't get a movie like this right with all the access they had to every bit of information they could have needed, then you need to re-evaluate if your in the right profession.

I don't think it will dissapoint.


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## amlove21 (Dec 16, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Did anyone notice the choral rendition of _Nothing Else Matters_ being sung in the back ground?
> Can't wait for this movie to come out.


The song is by the Scala and Kolcany brothers- they do choral renditions of tons of popular songs. Check out "Smells Like Teen Spirit" also.


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## AWP (Dec 16, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> Scala and Kolcany brothers


 
That's a winner. Thank you for that.


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## amlove21 (Dec 16, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> That's a winner. Thank you for that.


Right? I immediately downloaded about 8 of their songs. Pretty good.


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## AWP (Dec 16, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> Right? I immediately downloaded about 8 of their songs. Pretty good.


 
iTunes and I are bonding now.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 17, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> iTunes and I are bonding now.


Evidently the NavyGoWiFi and TPB don't play nice together...


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## TheSiatonist (Dec 19, 2012)

Sharing this.


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## Ravage (Dec 20, 2012)

The cast talk about the  rolles.

www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=doqi1jY-rwE


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## Ravage (Dec 23, 2012)

Just saw the Polish translation of the movie title: "Enemy No 1" ..... :wall:


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## AWP (Dec 23, 2012)

Several news outlets have the CIA protesting the "enhanced interrogation" methods shown in the movie, i.e. "torture is not how we developed the info to find UBL". 

Kind of ironic when you think about it given the players and politics involved.


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## Cyberchp (Dec 23, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> I actually saw a quote about this very thing, and I wanna say Iraq around 2004-ish, taken from a guy they took off target. Later in the interview, he was asked to give an account of the raid. I'll paraphrase, cause I can't remember the specific quote.
> 
> "They came in the night, silently. They were huge- terrifying. I could not move. Swift, terrifying giants- and they brought lions with them."
> 
> He was talking about the assaulter's dogs. He didn't believe them when they told him they were dogs, and not lions. I don't care if that story isn't 100% true, that's just awesome.


 
Reminds me of the German Officer's diary at Anzio and the "devils with baggy pants" comment.


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## DA SWO (Dec 23, 2012)

I wanna know what breed of dog so I can get one.


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## Queeg (Dec 26, 2012)

Hmm, lions eh?


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## AWP (Dec 26, 2012)

Ravage said:


> I'm just in it for the sexy CIA chick


 
If that actress passes for "sexy" then she could be a dental hygenist in Iowa. To each their own.


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## TH15 (Dec 26, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> If that actress passes for "sexy" then she could be a dental hygenist in Iowa. To each their own.


Dental hygienist? She should be put back in her cage with the rest of her kind.

A moderate to not-very-attractive ginger = Gary Busey.


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## DasBoot (Dec 26, 2012)

TH15 said:


> Dental hygienist? She should be put back in her cage with the rest of her kind.
> 
> A moderate to not-very-attractive ginger = Gary Busey.


So you find Gary Busey moderately attractive?


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## AWP (Dec 26, 2012)

Ladies and Gentlemen! In this corner, weighing in at 441 posts, Tee-AAAAAYYYTTCCCHHHHHH FIFTEEEEENNNNNNN!!!!!

And in this corner, fighting out of the Southeast, an undersea explosion waiting to happen, DaaaasssssBooooootttttt!!!!!!

And me? I'LL HAVE a GRATUITOUS usage of EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL CAPS!!!!!!!AND EXCESSSSSSIVE LETTERRRRRSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

I should probably go to sleep now.


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## RetPara (Dec 27, 2012)

SOWT said:


> I wanna know what breed of dog so I can get one.


You want big and scary.....
CAUCASIAN OVTCHARKA











Or a Tibetan Mastiff


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## RetPara (Dec 27, 2012)

one more TM pic......


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## Future_Leader (Dec 27, 2012)

Apparently this Ginger has a soul  And a feisty one at that!


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## Queeg (Dec 27, 2012)

I still think going in with actual lions merits consideration .


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## Ravage (Dec 27, 2012)

I do see a resemblance:


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## dknob (Dec 27, 2012)

wtf is that animal?


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## Ravage (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm younger than you and I've seen this movie


----------



## Hillclimb (Dec 27, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> If that actress passes for "sexy" then she could be a dental hygenist in Iowa. To each their own.



I see what you did there. ;)

When I think of actresses to fill a woman in the CIA kind of role, that blonde from Homeland always comes to mind first. Angelina Jolie if it requires double agents(Salt) or curving bullets(Wanted). 

Sucks the release got pushed back to January.


----------



## AWP (Dec 27, 2012)

Hillclimb said:


> When I think of actresses to fill a woman in the CIA kind of role, that blonde from Homeland always comes to mind first.


 
Claire Danes' character is BATSHIT (deserves all caps) insane in that role.

I'm in love.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 27, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> Claire Danes' character is BATSHIT (deserves all caps) insane in that role.
> 
> I'm in love.


Does your wife know?


----------



## AWP (Dec 27, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Does your wife know?


 
Why do you think I'm gone 10 months out of every year?


----------



## Ravage (Dec 31, 2012)

Got the movie soundtrack on-line. Dark.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 5, 2013)

I just saw this. I really liked it. It centers around the intel collection for basically Bin Laden's courier as someone mentioned, but it stays thrilling throughout. I can't really attest to the accuracy of all that, but none of it screamed bullshit to me. The raid at the end was probably the most legitimate GWOT military sequence on film. The equipment, the sounds, the way they moved, how damn dark it is. It's not perfect, but it gets close.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm sold. But have to wait 'till Feb the 8th....


----------



## goon175 (Jan 5, 2013)

The only bad thing I have heard about this film so far is that the waterboarding scene is a bit too dramatized, but other than that it has recieved rave reviews. I can tell just by the previews that it's going to be more realistic military action scenes than 95% of the movies out there.

But, as I have said before, with all the access they were given, this movie should be pretty damn accurate. If it isn't, they need to question their legitimacy as film makers.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 5, 2013)

Excellent movie.


----------



## AWP (Jan 5, 2013)

An old skydiving buddy/ drop zone owner of mine told me that Point Break did more for skydiving than any single event he's seen.

I wonder how recruiting for EOD and now the SEAL's has done in the wake of her films?


----------



## Ravage (Jan 5, 2013)

Like SPECWAR ever had a PR problem?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 5, 2013)

So I saw the movie back on Christmas Day at the Arclight on Sunset...you have to purchase a specific seat, I was like wtf.  Saw it with two Marine buddies, one's wife and the other's brother.  

This is by far one of the best movies I've seen this year, tied with Lincoln, then you have Dark Knight Rises, Skyfall, Les Miserables (Don't ask), The Hobbit ...and then all the random Marvel time takers.

I had expected it literally to be about the raid because the short trailer that had been running on the tube was: "Everyone's been in a helicopter crash before, right?" As Brian 1/75 said of it, it was really about the intel collection that led to getting the lead and eventually finding the asshole himself.  It lines up pretty well with Bissonnette's account of the raid itself.  You see the evolution of our interrogation techniques...and Congress trying to downplay it's effectiveness is retarded.  For most people I think it works, how effective the information they give you is probably completely different.

What I don't understand is how the CIA allowed a lot of their analysts to live off site from the embassy compound in Pakistan knowing how dangerous the place was itself.  

I'm no SOF dude, but it seemed that unlike in Bigelow's "The Hurt Locker," SOPs were displayed correctly so no criticism on that part.  

Like I said one of the best movies, and if it's not up there for best picture and something other than Lincoln wins it we have issues with the assholes that vote for movies.


----------



## AWP (Jan 5, 2013)

Ravage said:


> Like SPECWAR ever had a PR problem?


 
If you're responding to me I doubt you know what I meant with my comment, it has nothing to do with "PR", but kudos to you for speaking up for the SEALs.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 5, 2013)

Saw the movie today.....good movie...some minor issues...but hey it's a movie. I did find it interesting that no one ever said SEALs in the movie...not once.

Thought the water boarding scene in "Safe House" was more graphic though.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm expecting a hype after the Gdańsk harbor interrogation scene. There was a hype due to the rumor of secret CIA prisons in Poland.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 5, 2013)

goon175 said:


> But, as I have said before, with all the access they were given, this movie should be pretty damn accurate. If it isn't, they need to question their legitimacy as film makers.


And with this kind of access comes repercussions...



> *Senate panel to examine CIA contacts with "Zero Dark Thirty" filmmakers*
> 
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - After the Senate Intelligence Committee's chairwoman expressed outrage over scenes that imply "enhanced interrogations" of CIA detainees produced a breakthrough in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, the panel has begun a review of contacts between the makers of the film "Zero Dark Thirty" and CIA officials.
> 
> ...



Now I have a headache -- When stuff of this nature is portrayed too accurately, everybody screams foul. But if it's not accurate they get upset, too.  WTF??

I like Morell's open-ended statement, though.  Brings more speculation than closure.  LOL!


----------



## goon175 (Jan 5, 2013)

The enhanced interrogation techniques did not directly result in the information used to kill UBL. Those techniques were used over a period of weeks and months to soften the terrorist in question, and as a result, that terrorist ended up giving full-on classes on how AQ worked and the people involved. It wasn't this classic "TELL US WHO YOU WORK FOR" interrogation scenario.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 5, 2013)

Accepted truths of war, their hands are dirty because they sanctioned it and they're attempting to clean the grime off.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 6, 2013)

Ravage said:


> I'm expecting a hype after the Gdańsk harbor interrogation scene. There was a hype due to the rumor of secret CIA prisons in Poland.


In the movie it was a cargo vessel. It's probably elsewhere now (if it were true). 

Hope you guys pay your analysts enough coz to me, at least, that's one heck of a really exhausting job.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 6, 2013)

ThunderHorse said:


> Accepted truths of war, their hands are dirty because they sanctioned it and they're attempting to clean the grime off.


Seems more like bipartisan politics to me. All the enhanced interrogation mess was squarely placed on a Republican administration and now it's coming out that this led to actionable intelligence on Bin Laden's location stealing some Democratic glory for the raid.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 6, 2013)

Brian1/75 said:


> Seems more like bipartisan politics to me. All the enhanced interrogation mess was squarely placed on a Republican administration and now it's coming out that this led to actionable intelligence on Bin Laden's location stealing some Democratic glory for the raid.


 

I  think they are more worried about possible breaches of TTP's  ... Bad guys will watch this movie too.  We can call a spade a spade here.. They (film makers)  didn't lick the SOP's/TTP's  from a stone.


----------



## Rapid (Jan 6, 2013)

Ravage said:


> I'm expecting a hype after the Gdańsk harbor interrogation scene. There was a hype due to the rumor of secret CIA prisons in Poland.


 
I'm in Poland right now. I often am, actually. I'm here on a super secret mission... to drink your vodka.


----------



## AWP (Jan 6, 2013)

Rapid said:


> to drink your vodka.


 
DRRRRRRRAAAAIINNNNNNAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drained dry, I'm so sorry. If you have vodka and I have vodka, and I have a straw, there it is...and my straw reaches accrrrooooooosssss the North Sea and starts to drink your vodka.
I. DRINK. YOUR. VODKA!!!!!! IDRINKITUP!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 6, 2013)

Just saw this update on the AQ/Taliban handbook for TTPs and SOPs:

- When it's night time and you are in a house and all of a sudden the power goes out, do not, I say again, DO NOT take a peek when you hear your name being whispered in the corridor or outside your room.  If you must then wear a steel mask. Chances are you will be shot in the face by them four-eyed aliens who come in the night!


----------



## 21C (Jan 6, 2013)

My initial reaction after seeing who directed was it would be another peice of crap, overhyped hollywood crap, however, after seeing the responses in this thread I am kinda keen to check it out when it opens down here.


----------



## PattyW (Jan 7, 2013)

Watched the movie last night. Overall I would give it a 6.8 out of 10. As you would think most of the movie is following the CIA investigations and interrogations. The last 45 mins is the mil stuff with the obvious outcome. Some things they said bugged me but I'm sure it sounds cool to most people, hence why Hollywood would put it in. Hopefully Lone Survivor will turn out better.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 7, 2013)

No offense but if they are following the book, it's gonna be a slow-mo death of each of Luttrell RECCIE team mates.
It's gonna be another AoV recruitment mowie.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 7, 2013)

http://uk.ign.com/videos/2013/01/07/zero-dark-thirty-the-real-seals-featurette

A little look behind the assault part.


----------



## policemedic (Jan 8, 2013)

Ravage said:


> Like SPECWAR ever had a PR problem?


 
Not since you've been around.


----------



## policemedic (Jan 8, 2013)

PattyW said:


> Watched the movie last night. Overall I would give it a 6.8 out of 10. As you would think most of the movie is following the CIA investigations and interrogations. The last 45 mins is the mil stuff with the obvious outcome. Some things they said bugged me but I'm sure it sounds cool to most people, hence why Hollywood would put it in. Hopefully Lone Survivor will turn out better.


 
What bothered you?  I didn't hear anything objectionable, and I'm glad they were honest enough to have characters say they wanted to kill people.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 8, 2013)

.........aaaaaand it's on YT....


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

Ravage said:


> .........aaaaaand it's on YT....


 
I have a studio-quality version, all 2.36GB, ready to watch tonight.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 8, 2013)

Me too. Unfortunatly the raid it self was a bit crappy quality. Gonna gave to wait for a real deal dvdrip.


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

My 0D30 review for anyone who cares:

- The story is almost too formulaic. Maybe that's how things happened, but the main character started out appalled by "torture"* and by the end was ordering it. She had the obligatory cat fight with the only other female who later became her BFF over wine. The heroine/ Sort of Hot but Overrated Redhead was the plucky "I know I'm right and no one will believe me" zealot, fighting against the suits for the assets needed to break the case. She even resorted to strong-arming the Islamabad station chief in one scene. I helf expected an 80's music video montage.

- Torture? I think one scene had a guy being punched. The rest was either already admitted to (waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc.) or straight from Abu Ghraib which made me question it a little. Maybe it happened like that, maybe it didn't, but it seemed odd.

- The president was mentioned twice; once in passing, the other as being thoughtful and analytic. In that regard it was apolitical.

- Tony Soprano played Leon Panetta

- The CGI of Bagram sucked dog balls. They made it cleaner, better organized, and nicer than it actually is. They made it look like a base and not a trailer park on a runway.

- At one point some important guy says that the team in Pakistan was the only one tracking Al Qaeda and working on finding them, protecting the homeland, etc. I found that hard to believe, but okay.

- Area 51 makes an appearance, the SHOR tells the DEVGRU guys that she didn't want to use them because of their "dip and gear", but had no choice. They were her "canaries" (for you young people, canaries were used in mines. The birds would die first if the oxygem levels were too low and so miners used them as an indicator to evac the mine) and she just wanted to drop a bomb. She was a total bitch in the last few scenes, particularly with the SEALs. Given the revelation about her Reply to All email earlier in this thread, I have ot think she's..."difficult to be around" if she doesn't get her way.

- They even used the phrase "We've got a Blackhawk down." Don't know if it was said, but it felt tongue-in-cheek.

-Mil Spec Monkey should make a mint off of the product placement. I think every one of them had one of his patches.

- At one point Panetta has lunch with SHOR and she tells him that she was recruited out of high school. Um, okay.

- Maybe my copy, maybe not, but the entire raid was very dark. Yeah, I know it took place at night, but at times you couldn't tell what was going on. The raid also felt rushed. You could kind of tell it was tacked on at the end of filming after the mission. It seemed like an afterthought, but overall was done well.

- One of the SEALs was listening to Tony Robbins on the flight in. I don't recall that detail from Bisonette's book, but the guy says he "has plans for after all of this" and "Mark Owen" was the first thing I thought of.

It was a good movie. My copy clocked in at 2 1/2 hours. The opening minute or so were 911 calls from 9/11. I don't know if those were actually calls or not, but they were very chilling. I see why the movie is in line for some awards. The story seemed too formulaic and "perfect" at times, SHOR was nearly killed in about every other scene I think, but it was done well and entertaining. I have a rule: if I'm not hooked in the first 20 minutes I'll turn it off and the movie kept me entertained.

I can't speak to the authenticity of all of the scenes, but it was entertaining and I think worth a look.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 8, 2013)

Awesome review, Free. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I LOL'd at your description of Bagram. I gonna assume it's OpSec to provide an aerial view of any base, but in case it's OK can you post a pic?  :)


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2013)

Free and I spent some time at the same base in Afghanistan (he much more so than I). His description was accurate. However, he left out a mention of the plywood.


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> Awesome review, Free. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
> 
> I LOL'd at your description of Bagram. I gonna assume it's OpSec to provide an aerial view of any base, but in case it's OK can you post a pic? :)


 
De nada.

Go to Google Images, type in bagram air base b-hut or these:

This is actually a "positive" view of Bagram in that it almost looks orderly and well thought-out. Look closer and you'll see that there's no real pattern. "Oh, we can drop 5 trailers here, let's do that" is a common motif.


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

Next we have this deceptive photo. It kind of looks like it was taken by the old Army aviation area, but could be a few other places. Note the stellar condition of the wood and the patchwork of new plywood. B-huts were built from 03-05 and were supposed to be removed/ burned by 06-07. Guess what we're still using ALL OVER the base? Also note, the professionally installed coax and CAT5. Clearly, this wasn't done due to expediency or laziness, this was done to facilitate troubleshooting, snow collection, and to create tripping hazards. Also note the fire extinguishers. In the event of a b-hut fire these are about as useful as buckets on the Titanic. Lastly, note the shredded mound of sandbags. These are to "protect" against rocket attacks. I said that with a striaght face because I'm almost numb to the stupid here.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 8, 2013)

Awww, man you're making me miss being deployed.


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

I found this lovely site which clearly thinks PERSEC is for the weak, but I digress. I'd say these were taken around 04 or 05 based on the uniforms and 25th ID patch.
http://sailing.wardspond.com/Afghanistan/

Disney Drive, the main, I'm sorry...the ONLY way of driving around base has changed little over the years. Note those trees telling anyone who walks by to GFY, they clearly live in contempt for mankind and this country.  So, when you watch 0D30 and see the few scenes of "Bagram" please don't think this place is as nice as what you see in the movie...because it isn't close.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2013)

Aren't those trees gone now?  Or am I thinking Balad?


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

You know...I was over on the West Side today, I rarely go there anymore, and I don't know. I think they are, just not as much as they used to be? I want to say they've been removed in some areas but not others.


----------



## Chopstick (Jan 8, 2013)

Are those the photos you submitted to "Better Shitholes and Hovels"?


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

Chopstick said:


> Are those the photos you submitted to "Better Shitholes and Hovels"?


 
Chop, no one would believe some of the crap I've seen here. Before anyone thinks that's hyperbole...spend a few months in this country and you'll know what I mean.


----------



## Chopstick (Jan 8, 2013)

Obviously I cannot commiserate..however I have seen some dandy patrol base pictures.


----------



## PattyW (Jan 9, 2013)

yea the nice, brand new looking metal buildings that they showed as "Bagram" were definitely not there when I was in 2011. Some of the things that bugged me are...Wasn't it in the report that the SEAL's put 2 in the chest 1 in the head when they took out OBL?....the movie they clearly put 6 bullets into him. I mean only the guys that were there know what really happened but that's pretty far off. Another thing is when the character "justin" says he smoked the dude and her wife and shes gonna bleed out. Why not give that grimey bitch some medical care? Not saying I didnt like the movie, I thought it was entertaining and one of the better OIF/OEF movies Ive seen.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 9, 2013)

Place looks more like a construction yard from a civi point of view.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 9, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> De nada.
> 
> Go to Google Images, type in bagram air base b-hut or these:
> 
> This is actually a "positive" view of Bagram in that it almost looks orderly and well thought-out. Look closer and you'll see that there's no real pattern. "Oh, we can drop 5 trailers here, let's do that" is a common motif.


 
This reminds me of Camp Butmir and Eagle Base in BiH.


----------



## AWP (Jan 9, 2013)

PattyW said:


> Wasn't it in the report that the SEAL's put 2 in the chest 1 in the head when they took out OBL?


 
I thought in Bissonette's book he mentioned that they shot the bodies again after they fell. I mean, it was a sentence or a part of a sentence and he didn't mention it again.

One interesting thing the movie showed, which book covered but now you can "see" it: Here are these die hard "Death to America" jihadists, helos land, breaching charges galore, everybody's clearly awake...and they didn't even try to fight. The movie would have you believe the SEALs even called to them and they came willingly to their deaths thinking the SEALs were good guys.

I know Bissonette mentioned that "They wouldn't fight because they were pussies" bit, but when you see it play out on screen it really drives home the point.


----------



## Ravage (Jan 9, 2013)

Kinda like, the higher the food chain you go, the less are they willing to walk the walk?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 9, 2013)

I still think Osama needed to go down in American gunfire to secure his status as a martyr.  He had outlived his usefulness as a "commander" and "leader of the faithful."  The best thing that could have happened to his movement, and to his legacy, is to have gone down "fighting" the Americans.


----------



## pardus (Jan 9, 2013)

PattyW said:


> Why not give that grimey bitch some medical care? .


 
Why?


----------



## PattyW (Jan 9, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> I thought in Bissonette's book he mentioned that they shot the bodies again after they fell. I mean, it was a sentence or a part of a sentence and he didn't mention it again.
> 
> I was talking about the "Official" report. I totally agree with the extra rounds just to get the point across.
> 
> ...


----------



## pardus (Jan 9, 2013)

A small team of guys doing a highly sensitive raid into enemy territory and you think it's a good idea to stop and render first aid, throwing a spanner into the whole operation and making everyone including the air assets vulnerable to potentially save a female that most likely knows nothing?

Each to their own...


----------



## AWP (Jan 9, 2013)

You don't put extra rounds into someone to "get the point across".


----------



## PattyW (Jan 9, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> You don't put extra rounds into someone to "get the point across".


Why'd he do it then? To make sure his weapon still worked? No, he did it to make sure the mother fucker was dead.


----------



## Queeg (Jan 9, 2013)

Ugh.  In some angles the ginger looks decent but in some other angles she looks like her face got whacked with a paddle.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 9, 2013)

PaulD said:


> Ugh. In some angles the ginger looks decent but in some other angles she looks like her face got whacked with a paddle.


 
I'd still go there!


----------



## AWP (Jan 9, 2013)

PattyW said:


> Why'd he do it then? To make sure his weapon still worked? No, he did it to make sure the mother fucker was dead.


 
You think I don't know that? Making sure he was dead and "getting the point across" are different things in my book.


----------



## Red Ryder (Jan 9, 2013)

PattyW said:


> Why'd he do it then? To make sure his weapon still worked? No, he did it to make sure the mother fucker was dead.


His body was still convulsing, in "death throws". They continued firing until he was motionless.


----------



## policemedic (Jan 9, 2013)

PattyW said:


> You asked why? I think why not try and keep her alive? Shes more use alive then dead.


 
Speaking as a medic, I wouldn't spend time on her until SSE had commenced, if even then.

On a different subject, I don't have a problem with the dead checks.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 9, 2013)

If she hadn't grabbed the AK then she wouldn't have been shot.


----------



## AWP (Jan 9, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> If she hadn't grabbed the AK then she wouldn't have been shot.


 
Considering they've chanted about jihad and sacrifice for over a decade, I think you could make the case that anyone in that compound was hostile. Besides, these cowardly shits will use their own children as shields, so a security round or two or 20 is hardly something I could lose sleep over. Clock's ticking, PAF -16's are inbound, already down one helo, a crowd is gathering outside of the compound...you don't go all My Lai on the place, but the adults aren't even on my radar if I'm those guys.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 10, 2013)

Agreed, Free.

I never really realized the meaning of 'unprecedented access' until I saw this. So besides meeting the DEVGRU team that executed the raid, they actually met with "Maya" and was toured around CIA and even got to see The Vault.




 
How awesome is that?


----------



## pardus (Jan 10, 2013)

A  fan boy's dream...


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 10, 2013)

Well, if given the chance to shake the hand of the real "Maya" plus meeting the raiders and the people who did the planning of the whole thing, and to top it off, taking a peek inside the 'The Vault' at the CIA then yeah...  

I thought the electronic surveillance stuff was awesome. I knew that the description in the news reports about how they managed to track down the courier was pretty much 'toned down'. When I saw how it played out in the movie I thought it wasn't as high-tech as what _Clear and Present Danger_ made it out to be. It was a combination of electronics and intelligent decision-making of the guys on the ground.


----------



## pardus (Jan 10, 2013)

For godssake people, it's a movie and a book about a real event. Just because that Mark Owen asshole says something or the movie shows something it does not mean it's real!  :wall:


----------



## policemedic (Jan 10, 2013)

pardus said:


> For godssake people, it's a movie and a book about a real event. Just because that Mark Owen asshole says something or the movie shows something it does not mean it's real! :wall:


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jan 10, 2013)

pardus said:


> For godssake people, it's a movie and a book about a real event. Just because that Mark Owen asshole says something or the movie shows something it does not mean it's real! :wall:


 
Agreed, if movies were real I would have hooked up with a whole bunch of hot chicks when I installed satellite TV for a while.  No boring chit chat, just walk in the door, say "I'm here to install your Sky TV" then flop out the pork sword.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> Agreed, if movies were real I would have hooked up with a whole bunch of hot chicks when I installed satellite TV for a while. No boring chit chat, just walk in the door, say "I'm here to install your Sky TV" then flop out the pork sword.


 

You used to install sky in sheep pens ?  :-"

Oh no i diiiiient!


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 10, 2013)

Irish is stereotypically drunk again.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jan 10, 2013)

Is't there a school yard rainbow you should be hanging around instead of stupidifying the world with your inane ramblings?


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 10, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> Irish is stereotypically drunk again.


 
How stereotypical of you to think I'm constantly drunk.



Mac_NZ said:


> Is't there a school yard rainbow you should be hanging around instead of stupidifying the world with your inane ramblings?


 

Only if it's your house..


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jan 10, 2013)

Irish said:


> Only if it's your house..


 
Can you weed my vegetable garden while your there?


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> Can you weed my vegetable garden while your there?


 
Sure thing.  We love tatoes ! lol


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 10, 2013)

Irish said:


> How stereotypical of you to think I'm constantly drunk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
While stroking your redhair beard.


----------



## AWP (Jan 10, 2013)

Irish said:


> Sure thing. We love tatoes ! lol


 
Shit, if ya'll did a better job at growing then we wouldn't have so many of "your kind" on our side of the pond.



(For those of you who don't follow history, that's a dig which should result in Irish flying to my house and burning it down)


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jan 10, 2013)

Its a sick man who brings up the blight...


----------



## Crusader74 (Jan 10, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Shit, if ya'll did a better job at growing then we wouldn't have so many of "your kind" on our side of the pond.
> 
> 
> 
> (For those of you who don't follow history, that's a dig which should result in Irish flying to my house and burning it down)


 

I've just put a fatwa on your ass you potato blight hatin M/F !


----------



## AWP (Jan 10, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> Its a sick man who brings up the blight...


 
Coming from this crowd that is both a compliment and condemnation.


----------



## pardus (Jan 10, 2013)

pardus said:


> For godssake people, it's a movie and a book about a real event. Just because that Mark Owen asshole says something or the movie shows something it does not mean it's real! :wall:


 
Who's the faggot that disagreed with this post?


----------



## 21C (Jan 11, 2013)

Not me. I can't even work out the friggn voting system :/


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 11, 2013)

pardus said:


> Who's the faggot that disagreed with this post?


 
I'd have thought after like two years of this system you'd know how to look it up.

Surprise, cockfag!


----------



## pardus (Jan 11, 2013)

Yeah well that's a typical ignorant reaction from a north island arsehole.


----------



## 21C (Jan 11, 2013)

You have islands? I thought it was on giant sheep pen.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 11, 2013)

pardus said:


> Yeah well that's a typical ignorant reaction from a north island arsehole.


 
Anything seen in a movie/TV is fact. You Southerners keep saying those Speights ads are real life!


----------



## moobob (Jan 11, 2013)

Just saw it in the theater. Pretty good flick.


----------



## pardus (Jan 11, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> Anything seen in a movie/TV is fact. You Southerners keep saying those Speights ads are real life!


 
They are in fact documentaries.


----------



## Deadpool (Jan 11, 2013)

I saw it back in December, keep in mind I'm the farthest thing from an Operator - but I thought the raid was done incredibly well.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Jan 22, 2013)

Just read this:

From Brandon Webb/SOFREP--


> RE: Zero Dark Thirty. I thought the movie was horrible. I wasn’t expecting anything other than to be entertained (It’s a movie folks). I sure as Hell don’t expect too much these days out of the Hollywood sheep factory. My main issue was that the military scenes were un-authentic and portrayed the SEALs in an amateurish light. It was like watching a bunch of kids play laser tag on target (yelling, sweeping each other with lasers). Two thumbs down...


 
...But, but... They had an ex-SEAL as an advisors exclusively for the raid scene!  :wall:


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## Cyberchp (Jan 22, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> Just read this:
> 
> From Brandon Webb/SOFREP--
> 
> ...


 
Noooo they were for the popped collars.


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## Ravage (Jan 22, 2013)

Well, those are the same guys that think Act of Valor was a masterpiece of cinematic experiance.
I want actors in movies, not real SEALs. SEALs can do a textbook take down, but ..... if I want to look at a textbook take down I go watch a documentary or a SPECWAR demo at Virginia Beach. When I go to a cinema I want actors - show'em, train'em, don't judge'em.


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## RackMaster (Jan 22, 2013)

I finally watched it yesterday and it was complete shit.


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## Blizzard (Jan 23, 2013)

I saw a week or so ago and was less than impressed.

Seems the film makers needed to decide if they were going to tell a factual depiction of events or a fictionalized one. The hybrid approach they chose to go with did not work for me, especially when they interchanged real people/names with fictional characters (ie. "Jessica" in place of Jennifer Matthews, KIA Camp Chapman). The movie was very choppy, especially the first 3rd; for the first 20 min. I couldn't figure out where they were going with this story. Some of the dialogue, especially Maya's, seemed absurd. If you're going to make up as much of the story as they did around the dialogue, at least make it entertaining - not cheesy/cliche.

The movie should've started and focused on the point wherre the courier was identified, expanded on the efforts to glean intel and identify the occupants of the compound, and concluded with raid. That piece alone could've made an interesting movie.


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## Loki (Jan 23, 2013)

I refuse to see this movie on any related type. I will not support these bottom feeder parasites making money and creating a propaganda piece for the Obama administration. Not to mention the same trash and low life bottom feeders that created the "Hurt Locker" one of the most insulting pieces of garbage movies ever made. I think this is an absolute insult to our elite forces that risk their lives on our behalf. Pisses me the fuck off! These Hollywierd types need their teeth kicked out with boot leather and their heads smashed with a baseball bat. Fuck them all! Many friends of mine in this community are not so impressed either with these pieces of shit.  I hope these liberal anti-American drug using freaks figure out another topic soon.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 23, 2013)

I saw it last week, it sucked.


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## DasBoot (Jan 23, 2013)

IMTT said:


> I refuse to see this movie on any related type. I will not support these bottom feeder parasites making money and creating a propaganda piece for the Obama administration. Not to mention the same trash and low life bottom feeders that created the "Hurt Locker" one of the most insulting pieces of garbage movies ever made. I think this is an absolute insult to our elite forces that risk their lives on our behalf. Pisses me the fuck off! These Hollywierd types need their teeth kicked out with boot leather and their heads smashed with a baseball bat. Fuck them all! Many friends of mine in this community are not so impressed either with these pieces of shit. I hope these liberal anti-American drug using freaks figure out another topic soon.


pretty strong opinion for not seeing the movie. I liked it for what it is- a movie. If anything, it was pro-Bush IMO considering the interrogation scenes.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 24, 2013)

IMTT said:


> I refuse to see this movie on any related type. I will not support these bottom feeder parasites making money and creating a propaganda piece for the Obama administration. Not to mention the same trash and low life bottom feeders that created the "Hurt Locker" one of the most insulting pieces of garbage movies ever made. I think this is an absolute insult to our elite forces that risk their lives on our behalf. Pisses me the fuck off! These Hollywierd types need their teeth kicked out with boot leather and their heads smashed with a baseball bat. Fuck them all! Many friends of mine in this community are not so impressed either with these pieces of shit. I hope these liberal anti-American drug using freaks figure out another topic soon.


 
I've heard this before on other sites and frankly, it's nonsense.


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## Loki (Jan 24, 2013)

Well, respectfully we disagree. My opinions and comments stand as written.


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## RackMaster (Jan 24, 2013)

I didn't support them by watching it, I "borrowed" it from the interwebz. ;)


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## Ravage (Jan 24, 2013)

So did I - high five!


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## DasBoot (Jan 24, 2013)

Aw so the helicopter just so happened to crash right on bin Ladens compound wall. That's what happened!


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## Centermass (Jan 25, 2013)




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## SkrewzLoose (Jan 25, 2013)

You were obviously never taught the _First Rule About Holes_.
Unless you can provide some valid evidence to back up your speculations, you don't have a leg to stand on.  So, feel free to have the last word if you'd like.


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## goon175 (Jan 25, 2013)

Dude.... it was the nearest Dunkin Donuts in the AO...so they flew out to get some coffee... and yeah.. maybe it was at night, but hey.. it gets cold at night. Can't a guy get some F'n coffee!? And so what if they bumped into UBL, coincidences never happen?


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## Centermass (Jan 25, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> You were obviously never taught the _First Rule About Holes_.
> Unless you can provide some valid evidence to back up your speculations, you don't have a leg to stand on. So, feel free to have the last word if you'd like.


 
Allow me. I have clip art for this very thing.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 25, 2013)

Back when I was taking under water bathtub diving, right before being awarded my water fountain drinking badge, I remember being pulled into the secret squirrel shed, and being told that OBL was really G.W.’s drinking buddy. They planned out 9/11 to take all of our minds off of the new black star ninja program commanded by our very own Ranger Pysch, which happened to be an old program formally known as the New Earth Army. Which happened to be recently documented in a film called “the men who star at goats” and so happened to be based on the exploits of a member of this forum named X SF_Med. But anyway, no shit there I was, knee deep in hand grenade pins, with my M57 clacker in hand, when all at once it hit me….That’s the problem with the government and news media, bitches be telling you one thing when big brother be doing another…But then I realized I was actually eating the wrong shrooms and decided that I needed to slow my roll before I got smacked with the ban-hammer.


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## Marine0311 (Jan 25, 2013)

This thread needed to be cleaned up and restored to good order.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2013)

I was actually kind of interested to hear how Pakistani nukes tied into the OBL raid.  THAT would have made for some awesome conspiracy theory.  Oh well, so sad, never mind...


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## AWP (Jan 25, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I was actually kind of interested to hear how Pakistani nukes tied into the OBL raid. THAT would have made for some awesome conspiracy theory. Oh well, so sad, never mind...


 
Actually, I could tell you about the ultra secret Illuminati manifesto's chapter on this but then I....what's that buzzing sound overhead? I need to go outside and check it out. BRB


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 25, 2013)

Man I found out today that I missed out on some stuff, than I wake up open my email and find a picture of a dude’s dick in there…WTF? No Pardus I will not forward it to you, it has been deleted.

So did the little doo-decky get banned?


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## Marine0311 (Jan 25, 2013)

JAB said:


> Man I found out today that I missed out on some stuff, than I wake up open my email and find a picture of a dude’s dick in there…WTF? No Pardus I will not forward it to you, it has been deleted.
> 
> So did the little doo-decky get banned?


 
Yes

/end of issue.

Let's move on.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 25, 2013)

Okay fine...


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## Marine0311 (Jan 25, 2013)

Points for discussion:


If you saw the movie what did you like? dislike?
What was accurate? What was inaccurate?
How would you rate the movie out of 5 stars?


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## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2013)

I haven't seen it and am not going to pay to see it.

Many of my classmates and military friends have seen it, and they said they liked it.


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## DasBoot (Jan 25, 2013)

Marine0311 said:


> Points for discussion:
> 
> 
> If you saw the movie what did you like? dislike?
> ...


 
1. I liked that it wasn't your standard "modern conflict" film. It showed (whether accurately or not) the world that goes on behind all the door kicking and press releases. Jessica Chastain was great and I don't use that too lightly when critiquing acting. She set the tone of the film. The supporting cast was good as well- I thought it was cool to have Gandolfini as Panetta. I think it offered a pretty unbiased view of things (I feel the Hurt Locker did the same, I know people say it was a bunch of "liberal crap" but I felt both films offer a different take on things than pretty much every war movie since Black Hawk Down). The "torture" scenese (I wasn't personally uncomfortable watching them- I'm all for waterboarding) didn't detract from the film and, again, showed a different perspective on the matter. The effects were a bit of a drawback- not much, but they could/should have spent more on the helos in flight.
2. I can't attest to the realism as I'm not military/intel yet. For me, BHD and Saving Private Ryan are the gold standard when it comes to a feeling of "realism" (or as real as you can get in terms of war) and this wasn't too shabby. To the untrained eye, the assault looked pretty legit (I did notice, after Goon175 mentioned it) the "flagging" with the IR lasers.
3. 4.5/5. Definitely earned its Oscar nominations (Bigelow should have been nominated for Director- I think this film is about 10x better than the Hurt Locker). If you want a film and not a video game-esque movie, and care more about good acting and storytelling than "realism" it's well worth the $8.


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## Poccington (Jan 25, 2013)

The ginger chick in the film drove me up the fucking wall. Her whole character went to shit once she went on her little "I know it's Bin Laden!" buzz. If I wanted to watch Homeland, I'd just watch Homeland. Not watch over 2 hours of "I swear this isn't Homeland", just to see a raid at the end.

On top of not paying to see it, the film earned a big "FAAAACK OFFFFFF" from me. It was piss poor.


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## Poccington (Jan 25, 2013)

"I'm the motherfucker that found this place, Sir"... Said the ginger chick, when Panetta asks who she is.

Easily, the single most ridiculous line in the whole fucking film. Who even talks like that, in response to a perfectly normal question?


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## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2013)

Poccington said:


> "I'm the motherfucker that found this place, Sir"... Said the ginger chick, when Panetta asks who she is.
> 
> Easily, the single most ridiculous line in the whole fucking film. Who even talks like that, in response to a perfectly normal question?


 
I completely agree and in most Professional environments, even a chick would get a good "dressing down" for shit like that.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 25, 2013)

Please, we all know the Americanski are cowpeoples, like the Soviets kept telling us.


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## AWP (Jan 25, 2013)

Poccington said:


> If I wanted to watch Homeland, I'd just watch Homeland. Not watch over 2 hours of "I swear this isn't Homeland", just to see a raid at the end.


 
Clare Danes is much, much hotter than the SHOR in Zero Dark 30.

As I posted a few pages ago, I thought the Maya character was the worst part about the movie and if the real one acts like her then she's a total c...

Anyway, I love the "recruited back in high school" chick who is a "real killer" according to her new boss is utterly repulsed by the first interrogation scene but by the end is even telling the guys when to beat a suspect. I kept waiting for the sassy black woman partner or big, trouble-making dog, or adorable, smart-assed kid to make an appearance since we seemed to be using Character 101 for plot development.

I also think BHD is utter crap.


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## Frank S. (Jan 25, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> I love the "recruited back in high school" chick who is a "real killer" according to her new boss is utterly repulsed by the first interrogation scene but by the end is even telling the guys when to beat a suspect.


 

Sarcasm aside, is this yet another "inspired" character a la "femme Nikita"? Which really blew donkey dicks both in feature length and serial form..?
Say it's not so...


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## TheSiatonist (Jan 25, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Clare Danes is much, much hotter than the SHOR in Zero Dark 30.


 
You obviously have not seen _Jolene_.  



Freefalling said:


> As I posted a few pages ago, I thought the Maya character was the worst part about the movie and if the real one acts like her then she's a total c...


 
Nada Bakos thinks "Maya" is a combination of several people (similar to the Hoot character in BHD):


> The movie’s ‘Maya’ appears to be an amalgamation of women I knew and worked with, some of whom go back further in the story than I do. Gina Bennett, Jennifer Matthews, and Barbara Sude were part of the initial group working in the Counterterrorism Center as targeters and analysts before 9/11. After the attacks, I and other officers transferred from other departments. Many were just joining the agency, like Maya at the movie’s beginning.
> 
> I could relate to Maya as a mid-level officer, being asked to “backbench” at a briefing—you’re briefing the guy who has to brief the guy—while she knows it’s her analysis that brought everyone together in the room. Supervisors sell this as “top cover” for the lower-level officer, and there is some truth to that. It’s easier for established officers to take a hit over a bad decision than for a new officer, whose career could end on an early miscall. When I became a supervisor, I did the same thing, and dodged my share of clipboards.


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## Brian1/75 (Jan 27, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> Just read this:
> 
> From Brandon Webb/SOFREP--
> 
> ...


Interesting that he thinks that. I did notice some flagging, but outside that it was pretty golden in my book. It was refreshing not to see SEALs slitting throws and use ninja hand signals to magically communicate to each other, having to reiterate, "Back the fuck up," on a breach and such. I'm sure I could film actual events of SEALs not acting perfectly 'professional'('Man did you see the way I jimmied that lock?' or 'Dude, check out that hadj chick she's pretty hot' or you know eating shit in the dark) and he would gripe about it.


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## Blizzard (Jan 27, 2013)

Poccington said:


> "I'm the motherfucker that found this place, Sir"... Said the ginger chick, when Panetta asks who she is.
> 
> Easily, the single most ridiculous line in the whole fucking film. Who even talks like that, in response to a perfectly normal question?


LOL. Agreed...although she had a number of other absurd ones as well.

Then there's this classic - DEVGRU leader asks the rest of his team, "Who here has been in a helo craft before?" (everyone raises hands) "OK, so we're all good." Really? _Really_?!


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## TheSiatonist (Jan 27, 2013)

I think he said "Who here has been in a helo _crash_ before?" (at the 5:16 mark)


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## AWP (Jan 27, 2013)

Blizzard said:


> Then there's this classic - DEVGRU leader asks the rest of his team, "Who here has been in a helo craft before?" (everyone raises hands) "OK, so we're all good." Really? _Really_?!


 
Did you take the word to be _craft_ or _crash_?


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## Red Ryder (Jan 27, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> I think he said "Who here has been in a helo _crash_ before?" (at the 5:16 mark)


Video is gone...


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## Blizzard (Jan 27, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Did you take the word to be _craft_ or _crash_?


I thought he said "craft" but perhaps I misheard.

I don't have a clip to listen to it again (video posted above was removed) but if he said "crash", it's still a corny line but much better than "craft"...and then I can make that appointment to get my hearing checked.


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## AWP (Jan 27, 2013)

Blizzard said:


> I don't have a clip to listen to it again (video posted above was removed) but if he said "crash", it's still a corny line but much better than "craft"


 
Corny perhaps, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in a book and I know I've heard it said before by others, so it wasn't anything new in case anyone's wondering. We have similar refrains in skydiving.


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## TheSiatonist (Jan 27, 2013)

La Roux said:


> Video is gone...





Blizzard said:


> I don't have a clip to listen to it again (video posted above was removed) ...


Sorry for not catching that earlier but it only says "Embedding disabled by request" so the video wasn't really removed.  If you click on the YouTube logo on the lower left of the video screen it should be able to take you to the video.


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## pardus (Jan 27, 2013)

TheSiatonist said:


> Sorry for not catching that earlier but it only says "Embedding disabled by request" so the video wasn't really removed. If you click on the YouTube logo on the lower left of the video screen it should be able to take you to the video.


 
No. It's gone.


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## Blizzard (Jan 27, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Corny perhaps, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in a book and I know I've heard it said before by others, so it wasn't anything new in case anyone's wondering. We have similar refrains in skydiving.


I hear ya. If it was "crash" (and by accounts here, that must've been it), then I'm more concerned about my hearing...or perhaps it's my attention span. 

When I heard it as "craft" all I could think is YGTBFSM; as though they were noob's or something - not to mention I've NEVER heard anyone refer to a helo as a "helo craft". In light of the comments here, "crash" clearly makes more sense. Now, it's off to the otolaryngologist...


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2013)

I just watched it.

It was OK, not great, not terrible. I'm glad I didn't pay for it.
I can see why the fanboys love it.


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

*The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed*

http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313​For the first time, the Navy SEAL who killed Osama bin Laden tells his story — speaking not just about the raid and the three shots that changed history, but about the personal aftermath for himself and his family. And the startling failure of the United States government to help its most experienced and skilled warriors carry on with their lives.​
*The man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden* sat in a wicker chair in my backyard, wondering how he was going to feed his wife and kids or pay for their medical care.

It was a mild spring day, April 2012, and our small group, including a few of his friends and family, was shielded from the sun by the patchwork shadows of maple trees. But the Shooter was sweating as he talked about his uncertain future, his plans to leave the Navy and SEAL Team 6.

He stood up several times with an apologetic gripe about the heat, leaving a perspiration stain on the seat-back cushion. He paced. I didn't know him well enough then to tell whether a glass of his favorite single malt, Lagavulin, was making him less or more edgy.

We would end up intimately familiar with each other's lives. We'd have dinners, lots of Scotch. He's played with my kids and my dogs and been a hilarious, engaging gentleman around my wife.
In my yard, the Shooter told his story about joining the Navy at nineteen, after a girl broke his heart. To escape, he almost by accident found himself in a Navy recruiter's office. "He asked me what I was going to do with my life. I told him I wanted to be a sniper.
"He said, 'Hey, we have snipers.'

"I said, 'Seriously, dude. You do not have snipers in the Navy.' But he brought me into his office and it was a pretty sweet deal. I signed up on a whim."

"That's the reason Al Qaeda has been decimated," he joked, "because she broke my fucking heart."
I would come to know about the Shooter's hundreds of combat missions, his twelve long-term SEAL-team deployments, his thirty-plus kills of enemy combatants, often eyeball to eyeball. And we would talk for hours about the mission to get bin Laden and about how, over the celebrated corpse in front of them on a tarp in a hangar in Jalalabad, he had given the magazine from his rifle with all but three lethally spent bullets left in it to the female CIA analyst whose dogged intel work and intuition led the fighters into that night.

When I was first around him, as he talked I would always try to imagine the Shooter geared up and a foot away from bin Laden, whose life ended in the next moment with three shots to the center of his forehead. But my mind insisted on rendering the picture like a bad Photoshop job — Mao's head superimposed on the Yangtze, or tourists taking photos with cardboard presidents outside the White House.

Bin Laden was, after all, the man CIA director Leon Panetta called "the most infamous terrorist in our time," who devoured inordinate amounts of our collective cultural imagery for more than a decade. The number-one celebrity of evil. And the man in my backyard blew his lights out.

ST6 in particular is an enterprise requiring extraordinary teamwork, combined with more kinds of support in the field than any other unit in the history of the U.S. military.

Similarly, NASA marshaled thousands of people to put a man on the moon, and history records that Neil Armstrong first set his foot there, not the equally talented Buzz Aldrin.

Enough people connected to the SEALs and the bin Laden mission have confirmed for me that the Shooter was the "number two" behind the raid's point man going up the stairs to bin Laden's third-floor residence, and that he is the one who rolled through the bedroom door solo and confronted the surprisingly tall terrorist pushing his youngest wife, Amal, in front of him through the pitch-black room. The Shooter had to raise his gun higher than he expected.

The point man is the only one besides the Shooter who could verify the kill shots firsthand, and he did just that to another SEAL I spoke with. But even the point man was not in the room then, having tackled two women into the hallway, a crucial and heroic decision given that everyone living in the house was presumed to be wearing a suicide vest.

But a series of confidential conversations, detailed descriptions of mission debriefs, and other evidence make it clear: The Shooter's is the most definitive account of those crucial few seconds, and his account, corroborated by multiple sources, establishes him as the last man to see Osama bin Laden alive. Not in dispute is the fact that others have claimed that they shot bin Laden when he was already dead, and a number of team members apparently did just that.

What is much harder to understand is that a man with hundreds of successful war missions, one of the most decorated combat veterans of our age, who capped his career by terminating bin Laden, has no landing pad in civilian life.

Back in April, he and some of his SEAL Team 6 colleagues had formed the skeleton of a company to help them transition out of the service. In my yard, he showed everyone his business-card mock-ups. There was only a subtle inside joke reference to their team in the company name.

Unlike former SEAL Team 6 member Matt Bissonnette (_No Easy Day_), they do not rush to write books or step forward publicly, because that violates the code of the "quiet professional." Someone suggested they might sell customized sunglasses and other accessories special operators often invent and use in the field. It strains credulity that for a commando team leader who never got a single one of his men hurt on a mission, sunglasses would be his best option. And it's a simple truth that those who have been most exposed to harrowing danger for the longest time during our recent unending wars now find themselves adrift in civilian life, trying desperately to adjust, often scrambling just to make ends meet.

At the time, the Shooter's uncle had reached out to an executive at Electronic Arts, hoping that the company might need help with video-game scenarios once the Shooter retired. But the uncle cannot mention his nephew's distinguishing feature as the one who put down bin Laden.

Secrecy is a thick blanket over our Special Forces that inelegantly covers them, technically forever. The twenty-three SEALs who flew into Pakistan that night were directed by their command the day they got back stateside about acting and speaking as though it had never happened.

"Right now we are pretty stacked with consultants," the video-game man responded. "Thirty active and recently retired guys" for one game: Medal of Honor Warfighter. In fact, seven active-duty Team 6 SEALs would later be punished for advising EA while still in the Navy and supposedly revealing classified information. (One retired SEAL, a participant in the bin Laden raid, was also involved.)
With the focus and precision he's learned, the Shooter waits and watches for the right way to exit, and adapt. Despite his foggy future, his past is deeply impressive. This is a man who is very pleased about his record of service to his country and has earned the respect of his peers.

"He's taken monumental risks," says the Shooter's dad, struggling to contain the frustration that roughs the edges of his deep pride in his son. "But he's unable to reap any reward."

It's not that there isn't one. The U.S. government put a $25 million bounty on bin Laden that no one is likely to collect. Certainly not the SEALs who went on the mission nor the support and intelligence experts who helped make it all possible. Technology is the key to success in this case more than people, Washington officials have said.

The Shooter doesn't care about that. "I'm not religious, but I always felt I was put on the earth to do something specific. After that mission, I knew what it was."

Others also knew, from the commander-in-chief on down. The bin Laden shooting was a staple of presidential-campaign brags. One big-budget movie, several books, and a whole drawerful of documentaries and TV films have fortified the brave images of the Shooter and his ST6 Red Squadron members.

There is commerce attached to the mission, and people are capitalizing. Just not the triggerman. While others collect, he is cautious and careful not to dishonor anyone. His manners come at his own expense.

"No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job," Barack Obama said last Veterans' Day, "or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home."

But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:

Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.

Since Abbottabad, he has trained his children to hide in their bathtub at the first sign of a problem as the safest, most fortified place in their house. His wife is familiar enough with the shotgun on their armoire to use it. She knows to sit on the bed, the weapon's butt braced against the wall, and precisely what angle to shoot out through the bedroom door, if necessary. A knife is also on the dresser should she need a backup.

Then there is the "bolt" bag of clothes, food, and other provisions for the family meant to last them two weeks in hiding.

"Personally," his wife told me recently, "I feel more threatened by a potential retaliatory terror attack on our community than I did eight years ago," when her husband joined ST6.

When the White House identified SEAL Team 6 as those responsible, camera crews swarmed into their Virginia Beach neighborhood, taking shots of the SEALs' homes.

After bin Laden's face appeared on their TV in the days after the killing, the Shooter cautioned his older child not to mention the Al Qaeda leader's name ever again "to anybody. It's a bad name, a curse name." His kid started referring to him instead as "Poopyface." It's a story he told affectionately on that April afternoon visit to my home.

He loves his kids and tears up only when he talks about saying goodbye to them before each and every deployment. "It's so much easier when they're asleep," he says, "and I can just kiss them, wondering if this is the last time." He's thrilled to show video of his oldest in kick-boxing class. And he calls his wife "the perfect mother."

In fact, the couple is officially separated, a common occurrence in ST6. SEAL marriages can be perilous. Husbands and fathers have been mostly away from their families since 9/11. But the Shooter and his wife continue to share a house on very friendly, even loving terms, largely to save money.

"We're actually looking into changing my name," the wife says. "Changing the kids' names, taking my husband's name off the house, paying off our cars. Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons. We still love each other."

When the family asked about any kind of government protection should the Shooter's name come out, they were advised that they could go into a witness-protection-like program.

Just as soon as the Department of Defense creates one.

"They [SEAL command] told me they could get me a job driving a beer truck in Milwaukee" under an assumed identity. Like Mafia snitches, they would not be able to contact their families or friends. "We'd lose everything."

"These guys have millions of dollars' worth of knowledge and training in their heads," says one of the group at my house, a former SEAL and mentor to the Shooter and others looking to make the transition out of what's officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group. "All sorts of executive function skills. That shouldn't go to waste."

The mentor himself took a familiar route — through Blackwater, then to the CIA, in both organizations as a paramilitary operator in Afghanistan.

Private security still seems like the smoothest job path, though many of these guys, including the Shooter, do not want to carry a gun ever again for professional use. The deaths of two contractors in Benghazi, both former SEALs the mentor knew, remind him that the battlefield risks do not go away.
By the time the Shooter visited me that first time in April, I had come to know more of the human face of what's called Tier One Special Operations, in addition to the extraordinary skill and icy resolve. It is a privileged, consuming, and concerning look inside one of the most insular clubs on earth.

And I understood that he would face a world very different from the supportive one President Obama described at Arlington National Cemetery a few months before.

As I watched the Shooter navigate obstacles very different from the ones he faced so expertly in four war zones around the globe, I wondered: Is this how America treats its heroes? The ones President Obama called "the best of the best"? The ones Vice-President Biden called "the finest warriors in the history of the world"?​*1 APRIL 2011: THE MISSION*
_*The reason we knew this was a special mission,*_ the Shooter said as our interviews about the bin Laden operation began, _is because we'd just finished an Afghanistan deployment and were on a training trip, diving in Miami, when a few of us got recalled to the Command in Virginia Beach. Another ST6 team was on official standby — normally that's the team that blows out for a contingency operation. _But they were not chosen, to better cloak what was going to happen.
_There was so much going on — the Libya thing, the Arab Spring. We knew something good was going to go down. We didn't know how good._

_The first day's briefing, they actually kind of lied to us, being very vague. They mentioned underwater cables because of the earthquake in Japan or some craziness. They hinted at Libya. They said it was a compound somewhere in a bowl and we were going to have two aircraft get us there and we don't know how many are inside but we have to get something out. You won't have any air support._

_I assumed it was WMD, a nuke, because why else are they sending us to Libya?_
Every question the Red Squadron ST6 members asked was answered with, "Well, we can't tell you that." Or: "We don't know."

_It was also weird that the entire Red Squadron was in town, but they kicked everyone out of the briefing except those guys who were going, twenty-three and four backups. We'd leave the room to get coffee and stuff, and the other guys were like, "Well, what are you guys doing?" We were telling them, "I have no idea." _

The Shooter was a mission team leader. Almost everyone chosen had a one or two ranking in the squadron, the most experienced guys. The group was split into four tactical teams, with the Shooter as leader of the external-security group — the dog, Cairo, two snipers, and a CIA interpreter to keep whoever might show up in the area out of the internal action.

The group left Virginia on a Sunday morning, April 10, to drive to the CIA's Harvey Point, North Carolina, center for another briefing and the start of training. _The Master Chief was saying JSOC _[Joint Special Operations Command]_ would be there, the Secretary of Defense might be there, the Pak/Afghan CIA desk, too. That's when the wheels started spinning for me: This is big._
_I've had some close calls with death, bullets flying past my head. Even just driving, weird stuff. Every time, I would tell my mother, "There's no way I'm going to die, because I'm here to do something." I've been saying that for twenty years. I don't know what it is, but it's something important. _

By Monday the team was assembled in a big classroom inside a one-story building. _They actually had security sitting outside. No one else was allowed in. A JSOC general, Pak/Afghan and other D.C. officials, and the ST6 commanding officer were there. The SEAL commander, cool as ever, said, "Okay, we're as close as we've ever been to UBL." And that was it. He kind of looked at us and we looked at him and nodded. There was none of that cheering bullshit. We were thinking, Yeah, okay, good. It's about time that we kill this motherfucker. It was simple._

_This is what I came for. Jealousies aside, one of us is going to have the best chance of killing this guy._

During the daylong briefing, the SEALs heard how the government found the compound in Abbottabad, how they were watching it, analyzing it, why they believed bin Laden might be there. He, UBL, had become known as the Pacer, the tall guy in satellite imagery who neither left nor mixed with the others.

It was the CIA woman, now immortalized in books and movies, who gave the briefing._ "Yeah," she told us. "We got him. This is him. This is my life's work. I'm positive."_

By then, government and military officials had been considering four options._ They were either going to bomb the piss out of the compound with two-thousand-pound ordnance, they were going to send us in, do some kind of joint thing with the Pakis, or try what was called a "hammer throw," where a drone flies by and chucks one fucking bomb at the guy. But they didn't want any collateral damage. And they wanted to make sure he was dead and not in a cave or a safe room._

After the group settled into "motel-like" rooms, with common areas that had TVs and a kitchen, the team started strategizing with a model of the compound on a large table. Then they drove to a full-scale mock-up for a walk-through. _The next day the helos came and we started doing iteration training based on how we wanted to hit it._

_Once I realized what was going on, I actually moved myself to one of the assault teams, even if I was no longer a team leader. We didn't need that many guys on the exterior team, and I'll go fast-rope on the roof with what I started calling the Martyrs Brigade, because as soon as we landed, I figured the house was going to blow up. But we were also going to be the guys in there first to kill him._

_One sniper would also be on the roof to lean over and try to take a shot upside down. The rest of the team would rope again down to the third-floor windows and get your gun up fast because he's probably standing there with his gun. If you fell, it would suck._

If the group made it inside, there were other issues. _I've been in houses before with IEDs in them designed to blow everything up. They'd hang them in the middle of the room so it's a bigger explosion._

_I was usually the guy to joke around when we were planning these things — we all dick around a lot. But I was like, "Hey guys, we have to take this fucking serious. There's a 90 percent chance this is a one-way mission. We're gonna die, so let's do this right."_

_The discussions went on, almost a luxury. We're used to going on the fly, five, six nights a week on deployment. Here's your target, we're leaving in twenty minutes. Come up with a plan. This compound was pretty easy, though we had no clue about the inside layout._
_The group reviewed contingencies: How do we handle cars? What if a helo went down? What do we do if the helo doors don't open? Shit like that._

_The first helicopter was going to land in front of the house. We were going to put our external security out and our bird was going to go back up and we'd fast-rope onto the roof. So we'd have one assault team from the other chopper coming up the stairs, and we'd be going down._

*It was March 2012, a blossoming* time of year in the capital of the free world. The intimate dinner party was already under way at a stylish split-level apartment one block from the Washington Hilton. The hostess was a military contractor, and there was a lobbyist there, along with another young woman, a Capitol Hill veteran.

The Shooter's mentor was behind the kitchen counter, putting a final grill-sauce flair on some huge slabs of red meat when four men, all of them imposing and fit, came through the front door.
The Shooter is thick, like a power lifter, with an audacious set of tattoos. He can be curt and dismissive as his default, but also wickedly funny. It's instantly easy to see why he's considered both a rebellious, pushy pain in the ass by his command and even some of his colleagues, but also a natural leader. An outgoing, charismatic, and determined alpha male in the ultimate alpha crowd.
He and his three friends were all active ST6 members that night, though none of the others present had been on the bin Laden mission.

This was my first face-to-face meeting with the Shooter, following several phone conversations and much checking on my journalism background, especially in war zones. In a corner, pouring drinks, he and I established some rules. He would consider talking to me only after his last, upcoming four-month deployment to Afghanistan had ended and he had exited the Navy. And he would not go public; he would not be named. That would be counter to the team's code, and it would also put a huge "kill me" target on his back.

During the dinner, he told mostly personal stories and took care not to talk in terms of operational security: the deal about the gun magazine and the CIA analyst, the experience of eyeballing bin Laden.

"Three of us were driving to our first briefing on the mission," he said. "We were thinking maybe it was Libya, but we knew there would be very high-level brass there. One of my guys says, 'I bet it's bin Laden.'" Another guy told the Shooter, "If it's Osama bin Laden, dude, I will suck yo' dick."
"So after I shoot UBL, I bring him over to see his body. 'Okay,' I told him, 'now is as good a time as any.'"

The group talked about hairy moments during other missions, stories soldiers and foreign correspondents enjoy swapping. But from the start something was obvious, not just about the Shooter but about his fellow SEALs, too: These men who had heroically faced death and exercised extraordinary violence in almost continuous battle for years on end were fearful of life after war.
This is a problem that is becoming more critical as the "best of the best" start leaving the most extended wartime careers in the history of the United States. And it is a problem not just for these men and their families but for the American government, which has come to rely heavily on a steady stream of Tier One special operators (including the Army's Delta Force and the Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron) — men of rarefied toughness and training like these — to maintain a sense of international security in an asymmetrical battlefield. The American way of war has changed radically in the past decade, so that in the future, "boots on the ground" will more and more mean special operators. Which means that there will be increasing numbers of vets in the Shooter's circumstance: abandoned, with limited choices.

That night, one of the Shooter's comrades, lantern-jawed, articulate, with a serious academic pedigree, told me: "I've seen a lot of combat, been in some pretty grisly circumstances. But the thing that scares me the most after fifteen years in the SEALs?
"Civilian life."

*2. "100 PERCENT, HE'S ON THE THIRD FLOOR."*
The Shooter and the rest of the team made one last night run on the mock-up of the compound in North Carolina, then drove back to their homes and headquarters in Virginia for a brief break.
There were goodbyes to his wife and sleeping children. _Normally she'd say, 'I'm fine, just go.' This time there was nothing fine about her. Like this would be the last time we'd see each other. _

_Saying goodbye is just horrible. I don't even want to talk about it... this is the last time I'm going to see these children._

The Shooter had bought himself $350 Prada sunglasses over the weekend, and much less expensive gifts for his kids. _Which makes me a horrible father. _But really, he just figured he'd die with some style on.

_And think of the ad campaign: "If you only have one day to live..." _

_When we got to Nevada a few days later, _where the team trained on another full-scale compound model, but this one crudely fashioned from shipping containers_, we turned the corner, saw the helos we'd actually use, and I started laughing. I told the guys, "The odds just changed. There's a 90 percent chance we'll survive." They asked why. I said, "I didn't know they were sending us to war on a fucking Decepticon."_

For the mission, they'd be slipping through the night in the latest model of stealth Black Hawk helicopters.

There were days more training, run after run, punctuated by briefings by military brass. _They asked us if we were ready. We told them, "Yeah, absolutely. This is going to be easy."_

This was ultimately an assault mission like hundreds he'd been on, different in only one respect.
A critical moment for the mission came when the tireless SEAL Red Team Squadron leader briefed chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen and Pentagon undersecretary Mike Vickers. He was going to sell it right then. Not just to his superiors but, through them, to the president.

_We're all in uniform to look professional, and our CO, working on no sleep for days, hit it out of the park. There's no doubt in my mind we're going to go because of his presentation. _

The group discussed what would happen if they were surrounded by Pakistani troops. _We would surrender. The original plan was to have Vice-President Biden fly to Islamabad and negotiate our release with Pakistan's president._

_This is hearsay, but I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am fucking voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, You're not fucking with my guys. Like, he's thinking about us._

_We got word that we'd be scrambling jets on the border to back us up._

An Ambien, a C-17 cargo-plane ride, a short stop in Germany, and they were in Afghanistan.
At Jalalabad, the Shooter saw the CIA analyst pacing. _She asked me why I was so calm. I told her, We do this every night. We go to a house, we fuck with some people, and we leave. This is just a longer flight. She looked at me and said, "One hundred percent he's on the third floor. So get to there if you can." She was probably 90 percent sure, and her emotion pushed that to 100._
_Another SEAL squadron, which was already in Afghanistan and would have normally been the assaulters, were very welcoming to us. _They would form the Quick Reaction Force flying in behind, on the 47's. The Red Team visitors stayed in "transient" housing.

_During the day, the group would work with our gear, work out. _Nighttime was poker and refreshments, or what is called "fellowship," while they waited for a go from Obama himself. On the treadmill, the Shooter listened to "Red Nation" by the rapper Game. _It's about leaving blood on the ground. We were the Red Team and we were going to leave some blood._
Other guys ginned up some mixed-martial-arts practice or stretched over foam rollers to keep their joints in good shape.

_We all wrote letters. I had my shitty little room and I'm sitting on my Pelican case with all my gear, a manila envelope on my bed, and I'm writing letters to my kids. They were to be delivered in case of my death, something for them to read when they're thirty-five. I have no idea what I said except I'm explaining everything, that it was a noble mission and I hope we got him. I'm saying I wish I could be there for them._

_And the tears are hitting the page, because we all knew that none of us were coming back alive. It was either death or a Pakistani prison, where we'd be raped for the rest of our lives._
He gave the letters to an intel guy not on the mission, with instructions. He would shred them if he made it back.

_You write it, it's horrible, you hand it off, and it's like, Okay, that part's over. And I'm back, ready to roll._
*By early September of last year,* the Shooter was out, officially. Retired.
He had survived his last deployment, and there was a barbecue near his house to celebrate with about thirty close friends from "the community." The Redskins were on, his favorite team, and there was lots of Commando ale, brewed by a former SEAL.

"I left SEALs on Friday," he said the next time I saw him. It was a little more than thirty-six months before the official retirement requirement of twenty years of service. "My health care for me and my family stopped at midnight Friday night. I asked if there was some transition from my Tricare to Blue Cross Blue Shield. They said no. You're out of the service, your coverage is over. Thanks for your sixteen years. Go fuck yourself."

The government does provide 180 days of transitional health-care benefits, but the Shooter is eligible only if he agrees to remain on active duty "in a support role," or become a reservist. Either way, his life would not be his own. Instead, he'll buy private insurance for $486 a month, but some treatments that relieve his wartime pains, like $120 for weekly chiropractic care, are out-of-pocket. Like many vets, he will have to wait at least eight months to have his disability claims adjudicated. Or even longer. The average wait time nationally is more than nine months, according to the Center for Investigative Reporting.​Anyone who leaves early also gets no pension, so he is without income. Even if he had stayed in for the full twenty, his pension would have been half his base pay: $2,197 a month. The same as a member of the Navy choir.

Still, on this early fall weekend, he does not want to commit to publishing any information from or about him. The book by a friend and fellow ST6 member, Matt Bissonnette, who claims to have shot bin Laden in the chest when the Al Qaeda leader was already down and bleeding profusely, will go on sale in a few days. The Department of Defense was threatening legal action over breach of confidentiality agreements and revelation of supposedly classified material. And the Shooter refuses to identify Bissonnette by name or confirm that he is the colleague who wrote the book. "I still want him and his family to be safe no matter what," he says. "If he didn't want [his name] out, I shouldn't either. That is my thinking, anyway."

Many in the community are also infuriated, the Shooter says. "There's a shitstorm around this." It has also come to his attention that Bissonnette's account tends to gloss over — if not erase — the Shooter's central role in bin Laden's death.

"I don't know why he'd do that," the Shooter says.

Almost since the mission was done, the Shooter himself was suspected by the SEAL command and other team members of being the one who was writing a book, the one who would be first to market, spinning gold off Abbottabad.

CIA and FBI officials called to ask whether he was going to appear with Bissonnette on _60 Minutes._
When it became clear that he wasn't the opportunist, there was an official effort at apology from his superiors and some individual SEALs.

The Shooter had long ago decided not to write a book out of the gate, though he is keenly aware that Bissonnette's book will make millions. There is still loyalty and safety to consider. He also wanted to see how Bissonnette fared with his colleagues, the U.S. government, and others.

Bissonnette's pseudonym — Mark Owen — lasted about a day before his real name surfaced and was promptly posted on a jihadi Web site.

But it was his official separation from the Navy that convinced the Shooter that he should get his story down somewhere, both for history and for a potential "greater good," to both humanize his warrior friends as something more complex than Jason Bourne cartoon superheroes, and call attention to what retiring SEALs don't get in their complex bargain with their country.​


----------



## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

*3."HEY, MAN, I JUST SHOT A WOMAN."*​*Waiting in Jalalabad, the teams* were getting feedback from Washington. _Gates didn't want to do this, Hillary didn't want to do that. _​​The Shooter still thought, _We'd train, spin up, then spin down. They'd eventually tank the op and just bomb it._​​But then the word came to Vice Admiral William McRaven, head of Joint Special Operations Command. The mission was on, originally for April 30, the night of the White House Correspondents' dinner in Washington.​​_McRaven figured it would look bad if all sorts of officials got up and left the dinner in front of the press. So he came up with a cover story about the weather so we could launch on Sunday, May 1, instead. _​​There was one last briefing and an awesome speech from McRaven comparing the looming raid and its fighters to the movie _Hoosiers._​​Then they're gathered by a fire pit, suiting up. Just before he got on the chopper to leave for Abbottabad, the Shooter called his dad. _I didn't know where he was, but I found out later he was in a Walmart parking lot. I said, "Hey, it's time to go to work," and I'm thinking, I'm calling for the last time. I thought there was a good chance of dying. _​​_He knew something significant was up, though he didn't know what. _The Shooter could hear him start to tear up. _He told me later that he sat in his pickup in that parking lot for an hour and couldn't get out of the car. _​​The Red Team and members of the other squad hugged one another instead of the usual handshakes before they boarded their separate aircraft. The hangars had huge stadium lights pointing outward so no one from the outside could see what was going on.​​_I took one last piss on the bushes._​​Ninety minutes in the chopper to get from Jalalabad to Abbottabad. The Shooter noted when the bird turned right, into Pakistani airspace.​​_I was sitting next to the commanding officer, and he's relaying everything to McRaven._​_I was counting back and forth to a thousand to pass the time. It's a long flight, but we brought these collapsible camping chairs, so we're not uncomfortable. But it's getting old and you're ready to go and you don't want your legs falling asleep._​​_Every fifteen minutes they'd tell us we hadn't been painted _[made by Pakistani radar].​_I remember banking to the south, which meant we were getting ready to hit. We had about another fifteen minutes. Instead of counting, for some reason I said to myself the George Bush 9/11 quote: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended. I could just hear his voice, and that was neat. I started saying it again and again to myself. Then I started to get pumped up. I'm like: This is so on. _​​_I was concerned for the two _[MH-47 Chinook]_ big-boat choppers crossing the Pakistani border forty-five minutes after we did, both full of my guys from the other squadron, the backup and extraction group. The 47's have some awesome antiradar shit on them, too. But it's still a school bus flying into a sovereign nation. If the Pakistanis don't like it, they can send a jet in to shoot them down._​​_Flying in, we were all just sort of in our own world. My biggest concern was having to piss really bad and then having to get off in a fight needing to pee. We actually had these things made for us, like a combination collapsible dog bowl and diaper. I still have mine; I never used it. I used one of my water bottles instead. I forgot until later that when I shot bin Laden in the face, I had a bottle of piss in my pocket._​​_I would have pissed my pants rather than trying to fight with a full bladder._​​Above the compound, the Shooter could hear only his helo pilot in the flight noise. _"Dash 1 going around" meant the other chopper was circling back around. I thought they'd taken fire and were just moving. I didn't realize they crashed right then. But our pilot did. He put our five perimeter guys out, went up, and went right back down outside the compound, so we knew something was wrong. We weren't sure what the fuck it was._​​_We opened the doors, and I looked out. _​​_The area looked different than where we trained because we're in Pakistan now. There are the lights, the city. There's a golf course. And we're, This is some serious Navy SEAL shit we're going to do. This is so badass. My foot hit the ground and I was still running_ [the Bush quote]_ in my head. I don't care if I die right now. This is so awesome. There was concern, but no fear._​​_I was carrying a big-ass sledgehammer to blow through a wall if we had to. There was a gate on the northeast corner and we went right to that. We put a breaching charge on it, clacked it, and the door peeled like a tin can. But it was a fake gate with a wall behind it. That was good, because we knew that someone was defending themselves. There's something good here._​​_We walked down the main long wall to get to the driveway to breach the door there. We were about to blow that next door on the north end when one of the guys from the bird that crashed came around the other side and opened it._​​_So we were moving down the driveway and I looked to the left. The compound was exactly the same. The mock-up had been dead-on. To actually be there and see the house with the three stories, the blacked-out windows, high walls, and barbed wire — and I'm actually in that security driveway with the carport, just like the satellite photos. I was like, This is really cool I'm here._​​_While we were in the carport, I heard gunfire from two different places nearby._ In one flurry, a SEAL shot Abrar al-Kuwaiti, the brother of bin Laden's courier, and his wife, Bushra. _One of our guys involved told me, "Jesus, these women are jumping in front of these guys. They're trying to martyr themselves. Another sign that this is a serious place. Even if bin Laden isn't here, someone important is."_​​_We crossed to the south side of the main building. _There the Shooter ran into another team member, who told him,_ "Hey, man, I just shot a woman." He was worried. I told him not to be. "We should be thinking about the mission, not about going to jail."_​​*For the Shooter personally,* bin Laden was one bookend in a black-ops career that was coming to an end. But the road to Abbottabad was long, starting with the guys who tried and failed to make it into the SEALs in the first place. Up to 80 percent of applicants wash out, and some almost die trying.​​In fact, during the Shooter's Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training in the mid-nineties, the torture-chamber menu of physical and emotional resistance and resolve required to get into the SEALs, there was actually a death and resurrection.​​"One of the tests is they make you dive to the bottom of a pool and tie five knots," the Shooter says. "One guy got to the fifth knot and blacked out underwater. We pulled him up and he was, like, dead. They made the class face the fence while they tried to resuscitate him. The first words as he spit out water were 'Did I pass? Did I tie the fifth knot?' The instructor told him, 'We didn't want to find out if you could tie the knots, you asshole, we wanted to know how hard you'd push yourself. You killed yourself. You passed.'"​​"I've been drown-proofed once, and it does suck," the Shooter says.​​Then there is Green Team, the lead-heavy door of entry for SEAL Team 6. Half of the men who are already hardened SEALs don't make it through. "They get in your mind and make you think fast and make decisions during high stress."​​There have been SEAL teams since the Kennedy years, when they got their first real workout against the Vietcong around Da Nang and in the Mekong Delta, and even during periods of relative peace since Vietnam, SEAL teams have been deployed around the world. But at no time have they been more active than in the period since 2001, in the longest war ever fought by Americans.​​If the surge in Iraq ordered by President Bush in 2007 was at all successful, that success is owed significantly to the night-shift work done by SEAL Team 6.​​"We would go kill high-value targets every night," the Shooter tells me. He and other ST6 members who would later be on the Abbottabad trip lived in rough huts with mud floors and cots. "But we were completely disrupting Al Qaeda and other Iraqi networks. If we only killed five or six guys a night, we were wasting our time. We knew this was the greatest moment of our operational lives."​​From Al Asad to Ramadi to Baghdad to Baquba — Al Qaeda central at the time — the SEALs had latitude to go after "everyone we thought we had to kill. That's really a major reason the surge was going so well, because terrorists were dying strategically."​​During one raid, accompanied by two dogs, the Shooter says that he and his team wiped out "an entire spiderweb network." Villagers told Iraqi newspapers the next day that "Ninjas came with lions."​​It is important to him to stress that no women or children were killed in that raid. He also insists that when it came to interrogation, repetitive questioning and leveraging fear was as aggressive as he'd go. "When we first started the war in Iraq, we were using Metallica music to soften people up before we interrogated them," the Shooter says. "Metallica got wind of this and they said, 'Hey, please don't use our music because we don't want to promote violence.' I thought, Dude, you have an album called _Kill 'Em All._​​"But we stopped using their music, and then a band called Demon Hunter got in touch and said, 'We're all about promoting what you do.' They sent us CDs and patches. I wore my Demon Hunter patch on every mission. I wore it when I blasted bin Laden."​​On deployment in Afghanistan or Iraq, they would "eat, work out, play Xbox, study languages, do schoolwork." And watch the biker series _Sons of Anarchy, Entourage,_ and three or four seasons of _The Shield._​​They were rural high school football stars, backwoods game hunters, and Ivy League graduates thrown together by a serious devotion to the cause, and to the action. Accessories, upbringing, and cultural tastes were just preamble, though, to the real work. As for the Shooter, he jokes that his choice in life was to "go to the SEALs or go to jail." Not that he would have ever found himself behind bars, but he points out traits that all SEALs seem to have in common: the willingness to live beyond the edge, and to do anything, and the resolve to never quit.​​The bin Laden mission was far from the most dangerous of his career. Once, he was pinned down near Asadabad, Afghanistan, while the SEALs were trying to disrupt Al Qaeda supply lines used to ambush Americans.​​"Bullets flew between my gun and my face," he says, just as he was inserting some of his favorite Copenhagen chew and then open-field sprinting to retrieve some special equipment he had dropped. That fight ended when he called in air strikes along the eastern Afghan border to light up the enemy.​Opening a closet door once, team members found a boy inside. "The natural response was 'C'mon kid.' Then, _boom_, he blows himself up. Suicide bombers are fast. Other rooms and other places, "we'd go in and a guy would be sleeping. Up against the wall were his cologne, deodorant, soap, suicide vest, AK-47, and grenades."​​He's also had to collect body parts of his close friends, most notably when a SEAL team chopper was shot down in Afghanistan's Kunar province in June 2005, killing eight SEALs. "We go to a lot of funerals."​​But for all the big battle boasts that become a sort of currency among SEALs, the Shooter has a deep fondness for the comedy that comes from being around the bunch of guys who are the only people in the world with whom you have so much in common and the only people in the world who can know exactly what you do for a living.​​"I realized when I joined I had to be a better shot and step up my humor. These guys were hilarious."​There are the now-famous pranks with a giant dildo — they called it the Staff of Power — discovered during training in an abandoned Miami building. SEALs would find photos of it inserted into their gas masks or at the bottom of a barrel of animal crackers they were eating. Goats were put in their personal cages at ST6 headquarters. Uniforms were borrowed and dyed pink. Boots were glued to the floor. Flash-bang grenades went off in their gear.​​The area near the Shooter's cage was such a target for outlandish stunts that it was called the Gaza Strip.​​Even in action, with all their high state of expertise and readiness, "we're normal people. We fall off ladders, land on the wrong roof, get bitten by dogs." In Iraq, a breacher was putting a charge on a door to blow it off its hinges when he mistakenly leaned against the doorbell. He quickly took off the charge and the target opened the door. We were like, _"You rang the fucking doorbell?!"_ Maybe we should try that more often, the Shooter thought to himself.​​The dead can also be funny, as long as it's not your guys. "In Afghanistan we were cutting away the clothes on this dead dude to see if he had a suicide vest on, only to find that he had a huge dick, down to his knees. From then on, we called him Abu Dujan Holmes.​​And then there was the time that the Shooter shit himself on a tandem jump with a huge SEAL who outweighed him by sixty pounds. "The goddamn main chute yanked so hard he slipped two disks in his neck and I filled my socks with human feces. I told him, 'Hey, dude, this is a horrible day.' He said if I went to our reserve chute, 'you're gonna fucking kill me.' He was that convinced his head was going to rip off his body.​​"Okay, so I'm flying this broken chute, shitting my pants with this near-dead guy connected to me. And we eat shit on the landing. We're lying there and the chute is dragging us across the ground. I hear him go, 'Yeah, that's my last jump for today.' And I said, 'That's cool. Can I borrow your boxers?'​"We jumped the next day."​​The Shooter's willingness to endure comes from a deep personal well of confidence and drive that seems to also describe every one of his peers. But his odyssey through countless outposts in Afghanistan and Iraq to skydives into the Indian Ocean — situations that are always strewn with violence and with his own death always imminent — is grounded by a sense of deep confederacy.​"I'm lucky to be with these guys. I'm not going to let them down. I was going to go in for a few years, but then I met these other guys and stuck around because of them." He and one buddy made their first kills at exactly the same time, in Ramadi. Shared bloodletting is as much a bonding agent as shared blood.​​After Team 6 SEAL Adam Brown was killed in March 2010, Brown's squadron members approached the dead man's kids at the funeral. They were screaming and inconsolable. "You may have lost a father," one of them said, "but you've gained twenty fathers."​​Most of those SEALs would be killed the next year when their helicopter was shot down in eastern Wardak province.​​The Shooter feels both the losses and connections no less keenly now that he's out. "One of my closest friends in the world I've been with in SEAL Team 6 the whole time," he says.​​The Shooter's friend is also looking for a viable exit from the Navy. As he prepared to deploy again, he agreed to talk with me on the condition that I not identify him.​​"My wife doesn't want me to stay in one more minute than I have to," he says. But he's several years away from official retirement. "I agree that civilian life is scary. And I've got a family to take care of. Most of us have nothing to offer the public. We can track down and kill the enemy really well, but that's it.​​"If I get killed on this next deployment, I know my family will be taken care of." (The Navy does offer decent life-insurance policies at low rates.) "College will be paid for, they'll be fine.​"But if I come back alive and retire, I won't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out for the rest of my life. Sad to say, it's better if I get killed."​​*4."IS THIS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER DONE, OR THE WORST?"*​_*When we entered the main building,* there was a hallway with rooms off to the side. Dead ahead is the door to go upstairs. There were women screaming downstairs. They saw the others get shot, so they were upset. I saw a girl, about five, crying in the corner, first room on the right as we were going in. I went, picked her up, and brought her to another woman in the room on the left so she didn't have to be just with us. She seemed too out of it to be scared. There had to be fifteen people downstairs, all sleeping together in that one room. Two dead bodies were also in there._​_Normally, the SEALs have a support or communications guy who watches the women and children. But this was a pared-down mission intended strictly for an assault, without that extra help. We didn't really have anyone that could stay back._​​_So we're looking down the hallway at the door to the stairwell. I figured this was the only door to get upstairs, which means the people upstairs can't get down. If there had been another way up, we would have found it by then._​​_We were at a standstill on the ground floor, waiting for the breacher to do his work. _​​_We'd always assumed we'd be surrounded at some point. You see the videos of him walking around and he's got all those jihadis. But they weren't prepared. They got all complacent. The guys that could shoot shot, but we were on top of them so fast._​​_Right then, I heard one of the guys talking about something, blah, blah, blah, the helo crashed. I asked, _What_ helo crashed? He said it was in the yard. And I said, _Bullshit!_ We're never getting out of here now. We have to kill this guy. I thought we'd have to steal cars and drive to Islamabad. Because the other option was to stick around and wait for the Pakistani military to show up. Hopefully, we don't shoot it out with them. We're going to end up in prison here, with someone negotiating for us, and that's just bad. That's when I got concerned. _​​_I've thought about death before, when I've been pinned down for an hour getting shot at. And I wondered what it was going to feel like taking one of those in the face. How long was it going to hurt? But I didn't think about that here._​​_One of the snipers who'd seen the disabled helo approached just before they went into the main building. He said, "Hey, dude, they've got an awesome mock-up of our helo in their yard." I said, "No, dude. They shot one of ours down." He said, "Okay, that makes more sense than the shit I was saying."_​​_The breacher had to blast the door twice for it to open. We started rolling up._​​_Team members didn't need much communication, or any orders, once they were on line. We're reading each other every second. We've gotten so good at war, we didn't need anything more._​_I was about five guys back on the stairway when I saw the point man holding up. He'd seen Khalid, bin Laden's _[twenty-three-year-old]_ son. I heard him whisper, "Khalid... come here..." in Arabic, then in Pashto. He used his name. That confused Khalid. He's probably thinking, "I just heard shitty Arabic and shitty Pashto. Who the fuck is this?" He leaned out, armed with an AK, and he got blasted by the point man. That call-out was one of the best combat moves I've ever seen. Khalid had on a white T-shirt and, like, white pajama pants. He was the last line of security._​​_I remember thinking then: I wish we could live through this night, because this is amazing. I was still expecting all kinds of funky shit like escape slides or safe rooms._​​_The point man moved past doors on the second floor and the four or five guys in front of me started to peel off to clear those rooms, which is always how the flow works. We're just clearing as we go, watching our backs. _​​They step over and past Khalid, who's dead on the stairs.​​_The point man, at that time, saw a guy on the third floor, peeking around a curtain in front of the hallway. _Bin Laden was the only adult male left to find. _The point man took a shot, maybe two, and the man upstairs disappeared back into a room. I didn't see that because I was looking back. _​_I don't think he hit him. He thinks he might have. _​​_So there's the point man on the stairs, waiting for someone to move into the number-two position. Originally I was five or six man, but the train flowed off to clear the second floor. So I roll up behind him. He told me later, "I knew I had some ass," meaning somebody to back him up. I turn around and look. There's nobody else coming up._​​_On the third floor, there were two chicks yelling at us and the point man was yelling at them and he said to me, "Hey, we need to get moving. These bitches is getting truculent." I remember saying to myself, Truculent? Really? Love that word. _​​_I kept looking behind us, and there was still no one else there._​​_By then we realized we weren't getting more guys. We had to move, because bin Laden is now going to be grabbing some weapon because he's getting shot at. I had my hand on the point man's shoulder and squeezed, a signal to go. The two of us went up. On the third floor, he tackled the two women in the hallway right outside the first door on the right, moving them past it just enough. He thought he was going to absorb the blast of suicide vests; he was going to kill himself so I could get the shot. It was the most heroic thing I've ever seen._​​_I rolled past him into the room, just inside the doorway._​​_There was bin Laden standing there. He had his hands on a woman's shoulders, pushing her ahead, not exactly toward me but by me, in the direction of the hallway commotion. It was his youngest wife, Amal._​​The SEALs had nightscopes, but it was coal-black for bin Laden and the other residents. _He can hear but he can't see._​​_He looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn't appear to be hit. I can't tell you 100 percent, but he was standing and moving. He was holding her in front of him. Maybe as a shield, I don't know._​​_For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That's him, boom, done._​​_I thought in that first instant how skinny he was, how tall and how short his beard was, all at once. He was wearing one of those white hats, but he had, like, an almost shaved head. Like a crew cut. I remember all that registering. I was amazed how tall he was, taller than all of us, and it didn't seem like he would be, because all those guys were always smaller than you think._​​_I'm just looking at him from right here _[he moves his hand out from his face about ten inches]_. He's got a gun on a shelf right there, the short AK he's famous for. And he's moving forward. I don't know if she's got a vest and she's being pushed to martyr them both. He's got a gun within reach. He's a threat. I need to get a head shot so he won't have a chance to clack himself off _[blow himself up].​​_In that second, I shot him, two times in the forehead. Bap! Bap! The second time as he's going down. He crumpled onto the floor in front of his bed and I hit him again, Bap! same place. That time I used my EOTech red-dot holo sight. He was dead. Not moving. His tongue was out. I watched him take his last breaths, just a reflex breath._​​_And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I've ever done, or the worst thing I've ever done? This is real and that's him. Holy shit._​​_Everybody wanted him dead, but nobody wanted to say, Hey, you're going to kill this guy. It was just sort of understood that's what we wanted to do._​​_His forehead was gruesome. It was split open in the shape of a V. I could see his brains spilling out over his face. The American public doesn't want to know what that looks like._​​_Amal turned back, and she was screaming, first at bin Laden and then at me. She came at me like she wanted to fight me, or that she wanted to die instead of him. So I put her on the bed, bound with zip ties. Then I realized that bin Laden's youngest son, who is about two or three, was standing there on the other side of the bed. I didn't want to hurt him, because I'm not a savage. There was a lot of screaming, he was crying, just in shock. I didn't like that he was scared. He's a kid, and had nothing to do with this. I picked him up and put him next to his mother. I put some water on his face._​​_The point man came in and zip-tied the other two women he'd grabbed._​_The third-floor action and killing took maybe fifteen seconds._​​*The Shooter's oldest child calls* the place his dad worked "Crapghanistan," maybe because his deployments meant he regularly missed Christmases, birthdays, and other holidays.​​"Our marriage was definitely a casualty of his career," says the Shooter's wife. They are officially split but still live together. Separate bedrooms, low overhead. "Somewhere along the line we lost track of each other." She holds his priorities partially responsible: SEAL first, father second, husband third.​This part of the Shooter's story is, as his wife puts it, "unique to us but unfortunately not unique in the community."​​SEAL operators are gone up to three hundred days a year. And when they're not in theater, they're training or soaking in the company of their buds in the absorbing clubhouse atmosphere of ST6 headquarters.​​"We can't talk with anyone else about what we do," the Shooter says, "or about anything else other than maybe skydiving and broken spleens. When it comes to socializing, it's really tight."​His wife understands that "so much of their survival is dependent on the fact that their friends and their jobs are so intertwined." And that "we lived our lives under a veil of secrecy."​​SEAL Team 6 spouses are nicknamed the Pink Squadron, because the women also rely on their hermetic connections to other wives. When you have no idea where your husband is or what he's doing, other than that it's mortally dangerous, and you can't discuss it — not even with your own mother — your world can feel desperately small.​​But his wife's concerns, and her own narrative, convey a faithfulness that extends beyond marital fidelity.​​She has comforted him when he was "inconsolable" after a mission in which he shot the parents of a boy in a crossfire. "He was reliving it, as a dad himself, when he was telling me." Not long after, she tended to him when she found him heavily sedated with an open bottle of Ambien and his pistol nearby.​​The command had mandatory psych evaluations. During one of those, the Shooter told the psychologist, "I was having suicidal thoughts and drinking too much." The doctor's response? "He told me this was normal for SEALs after combat deployment. He told me I should just drink less and not hurt anybody."​​The Shooter's wife is indignant. "That's not normal!" Though she knows that "every time you send your husband off to war, you get a slightly different person back."​The alone times are deeply trying.​​Several years ago, a SEAL friend had died in a helicopter crash. The Shooter's wife had just been to his funeral, consoling his widow. The Shooter was on the same deployment, and she had not heard anything about his status.​​"I came home and was inside holding our infant child. Our front door is all glass, and I see a man in a khaki uniform coming up the steps. All I could do was think, I'd better put the baby down because I'm going to faint. So I set the baby on the floor and answered the door. It was a neighbor with a baby bib I'd dropped outside. I swore at him and slammed the door in his face."​​It was four days more before she heard that her husband was safe.​​Given all of that, she has a surprising equanimity about her life. Talking with them separately, the couple's love for each other is evident and deep. "We've grown so much together," she says. "We'll always be best friends. I'll love him till the day I die."​​She remains in awe of "the level of brilliance these men have. To be surrounded by that caliber of people is something I'll always be grateful for."​​Her husband's retirement has been no less jarring for her. "He gave so much to his country, and now it seems he's left in the dust. I feel there's no support, not just for my family but for other families in the community. I honestly have nobody I can go to or talk to. Nor do I feel my husband has gotten much for what he's accomplished in his career."​​Exactly what, if any, responsibility should the government have to her family?​​The loss of income and insurance and no pension aside, she can no longer walk onto the local base if she feels a threat to her family. They've surrendered their military IDs. If something were to happen, the Shooter has instructed her to take the kids to the base gate anyway and demand to see the commanding officer, or someone from the SEAL team. "He said someone will come get us."​Because of the mission, she says that "my family is always going to be at risk. It's just a matter of finding coping strategies."​​The Shooter still dips his hand in his pocket when they're in a store, checking for a knife in case there's an emergency. He also keeps his eyes on the exits.​​He's lost some vision, he can't get his neck straight for any period of time. Right now, she's just waiting to see what he creates for himself in this new life.​​And she's waiting to see how he replaces even the $60,000 a year he was making (with special pay bonuses for different activities). Or how they can afford private health insurance that covers spinal injections she needs for her own sports injuries.​​"This is new to us, not having the team."​


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

*Within another fifteen seconds,* other team members started coming in the room. Here, the Shooter demurs about whether subsequent SEALs also fired into bin Laden's body. He's not feeding raw meat to what is an increasingly strict government focus on the etiquette of these missions. _But I would have done it if I'd come in the room later. I knew I was going to shoot him if I saw him, regardless._​​_I even joked about that with the guys before we were there. "I don't give a shit if you kill him — if I come in the room, I'm shooting his ass. I don't care if he's deader than fried chicken."_​​_In the compound, I thought about getting my camera, and I knew we needed to take pictures and ID him. We had a saying, "You kill him, you clean him." But I was just in a little bit of a zone. I had to actually ask one of my friends who came into the room, "Hey, what do we do now?" He said, "Now we go find the computers." And I remember saying, "Yes! I'm back! Got it!" Because I was almost stunned._​​_Then I just wanted to go get out of the house. We all had a DNA test kit, but I knew another team would be in there to do all that. So I went down to the second floor where the offices were, the media center. We started breaking apart the computer hard drives, cracking the towers. We were looking for thumb drives and disks, throwing them into our net bags. _​​_In each computer room, there was a bed. Under the beds were these huge duffel bags, and I'm pulling them out, looking for whatever. At first I thought they were filled with vacuum-sealed rib-eye steaks. I thought, They're in this for the long haul. They've got all this food. Then, wait a minute. This is raw opium. These drugs are everywhere. It was pretty funny to see that. _Altogether, he helped clean three rooms on the second floor.​​The Shooter did not see bin Laden's body again until he and the point man helped two others carry it, already bagged, down the building's hallways and out into the courtyard by the front gate._ I saw a sniper buddy of mine down there and I told him, "That's our guy. Hold on to him." Others took the corpse to the surviving Black Hawk. _​​With one helo down, the Shooter was relieved to hear the sound of the 47 Chinook transports arriving. His exfil (extraction) flight out was on one of the 47's, which had almost been blown out of the sky by the SEALs' own explosive charges, set to destroy the downed Black Hawk.​​_One backup SEAL Team 6 member on the flight asked who'd killed UBL. I said I fucking killed him. He's from New York and says, "No shit. On behalf of my family, thank you." And I thought: Wow, I've got a Navy SEAL telling me thanks? _​​_"You probably thought you'd never hear this," someone piped through the intercom system over an hour into the return flight, "but welcome back to Afghanistan." _​​_Back at the Jalalabad base, we pulled bin Laden out of the bag to show McRaven and the CIA. That's when McRaven had a tall SEAL lie down next to bin Laden to assess his height, along with other, slightly more scientific identity tests._​​_With the body laid out and under inspection, you could see more gunshot wounds to bin Laden's chest and legs. _​​_While they were still checking the body, I brought the agency woman over. I still had all my stuff on. We looked down and I asked, "Is that your guy?" She was crying. That's when I took my magazine out of my gun and gave it to her as a souvenir. Twenty-seven bullets left in it. "I hope you have room in your backpack for this." That was the last time I saw her._​​From there, the team accompanied the body to nearby Bagram Airfield. _During the next few hours, the thought that hit me was "This is awesome. This is great. We lived. This is perfect. We just did it all."_​​_The moment truly struck at Bagram when I'm eating a breakfast sandwich, standing near bin Laden's body, looking at a big-screen TV with the president announcing the raid. I'm sitting there watching him, looking at the body, looking at the president, eating a sausage-egg-cheese-and-extra-bacon sandwich thinking, "How the fuck did I get here? This is too much."_​​_I still didn't know if it would be good or bad. The good was having done something great for my country, for the guys, for the people of New York. It was closure. An honor to be there._​_I never expected people to be screaming "U.S.A.!" with Geraldo outside the White House._​​_The bad part was security. He was their prophet, basically. Now we killed him and I have to worry about this forever. Al Qaeda, especially these days, is 99 percent talk. But that 1 percent of the time they do shit, it's bad. They're capable of horrific things._​​_We listened to the Al Qaeda phone calls where one guy is saying, "We gotta find out who ratted on bin Laden." The other guy says, "I heard he did it to himself. He was locked up in that house with three wives." Funny terrorists._​​_At Bagram, the point man asked, "Hey, was he hit when you went into the room? I thought I shot him in the head and his cap flew off." I said I didn't know, but he was still walking and he had his hat on. The point man was like "Okay. No big deal."_​​_By then we had showered and were having some refreshments. We weren't comparing dicks. I've been in a lot of battles with this guy. He's a fucking amazing warrior, the most honorable, truthful dude I know. I trust him with my life._​​*The Shooter said he* and the point man participated in a shooters-only debrief with military officials around a trash can in Jalalabad and then a long session at Bagram Airfield, but they left some details ambiguous. The point man said he took two shots and thought one may have hit bin Laden. He said his number two went into the room "and finished him off as he was circling the drain." This was not exactly as it had gone down, but everyone seemed satisfied.​​Early government versions of the shooting talked about bin Laden using his wife as protection and being shot by a SEAL inside the room. But subsequent accounts, from officials and others like Bissonnette, further muddied the story and obscured the facts.​​What the two SEALs did discuss after the action was why there'd been a short gap before more assaulters joined them on the third floor._ "Where was everybody else?" the point man asked. I told him we just ran thin._​​_Guys went left and right on the second floor and it was just us. Everything happened really fast. Everybody did their jobs. Any team member would have done exactly what I did._​​_At Jalalabad, as we got off the plane there was an air crew there, guys who fix helicopters. They hugged me and knew I'd killed him. I don't know how the hell word spread that fast._​​_McRaven himself came over to me, very emotional. He grabbed me across the back of my neck like a proud father and gave me a hug. He knew what had happened, too._​​Not long after, a senior government official had an unofficial phone call with the mentor. "Your boy was the one," the mentor says he was told. The Shooter was alternately shocked and pleased to know that _word got back to the States before I did. "Who killed bin Laden?" was the first question, and then the name just flies._​​And it was the Shooter who, when an Obama administration official asked for details during the president's private visit with the bin Laden team at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, said "We all did it."​The SEAL standing next to the Shooter would say later, "Man, I was dying to tell him it was you."​​*From the moment* reporters started getting urgent texts hours before President Obama's official announcement on May 1, 2011, the bin Laden mission exploded into public view. Suddenly, a brilliant spotlight was shining where shadows had ruled for decades.​​TV trucks descended on the SEAL Team 6 community in Virginia Beach, showing their homes and hangouts.​​"The big mission changed a lot of attitudes around the command," the Shooter says. "There were suspicions about whether anyone was selling out."​​It had begun "when we were still in the Jalalabad hangar with our shit on. There was a lot of 'Don't let this go to your head, don't talk to anyone,' not even our own Red Team guys who hadn't gone with us."​​The assaulters "were immediately put in a box, like a time-out," says the Shooter's close friend, who was not on the mission. "'Don't open your mouth.' I would have flown them to Tahoe for a week."​But even with the SEALs' strong history of institutional modesty, there was no unringing this bell.​The potential for public fame was too great, and suspicion was high inside SEAL Team 6.​The Shooter was among those reprimanded for going out to a bar to celebrate the night they got back home. And he was supposed to report for work the next morning, but instead took the day off to spend with his kids.​​Twenty-four hours later came the offer of witness protection, driving the beer truck in Milwaukee. "That was the best idea on the table for security."​​"Maybe some courtesy eyes-on checks" of his home, he thought. "Send some Seabees over to put in a heavier, metal-reinforced front door. Install some sensors or something. But there was literally nothing."​​He considered whether to get a gun permit for life outside the perimeter.​​The SEALs are proud of being ready for "anything and everything." But when it came to his family's safety? "I don't have the resources."​​With gossip and finger-pointing continuing over the mission, the Shooter made a decision "to show I wasn't a douchebag, that I'm still part of this team and believe in what we're doing."​He re-upped for another four-month deployment. It would be in the brutal cold of Afghanistan's winter.​​But he had already decided this would be his last deployment, his SEAL Team 6 sayonara.​"I wanted to see my children graduate and get married." He hoped to be able to sleep through the night for the first time in years. "I was burned out," he says. "And I realized that when I stopped getting an adrenaline rush from gunfights, it was time to go."​​*May 1, 2012, the first* anniversary of the bin Laden mission. The Shooter is getting ready to go play with his kids at a water park. He's watching CNN.​​"They were saying, 'So now we're taking viewer e-mails. Do you remember where you were when you found out Osama bin Laden was dead?' And I was thinking: Of course I remember. I was in his bedroom looking down at his body."​​The standing ovation of a country in love with its secret warriors had devolved into a news quiz, even as new generations of SEALs are preparing for sacrifice in the Horn of Africa, Iran, perhaps Mexico.​The Shooter himself, an essential part of the team helping keep us safe since 9/11, is now on his own. He is enjoying his family, finally, and won't be kissing his kids goodbye as though it were the last time and suiting up for the battlefield ever again.​​But when he officially separates from the Navy three months later, where do his sixteen years of training and preparedness go on his résumé? Who in the outside world understands the executive skills and keen psychological fortitude he and his First Tier colleagues have absorbed into their DNA? Who is even allowed to know? And where can he go to get any of these questions answered?​There is a Transition Assistance Program in the military, but it's largely remedial level, rote advice of marginal value: Wear a tie to interviews, not your Corfam (black shiny service) shoes. Try not to sneeze in anyone's coffee.​​"It's criminal to me that these guys walk out the door naked," says retired Marine major general Mike Myatt. "They're the greatest of their generation; they know how to get things done. If I were a _Fortune_ 500 company, I'd try to get my hands on any one of them." General Myatt, standing in the mezzanine of the Marines Memorial building he runs in San Francisco, is surrounded by so many Marine memorial plaques he's had to expand the memorial around the corner due to so many deaths over the past eleven years of war.​​He is furious about the high unemployment rate among returning infantrymen and has taken on that issue as his own, as well as homelessness, PTSD, and the other plagues of regular troops returning home.​​General Myatt believes "the U.S. military is the best in the world at transitioning from civilian to military life and the worst in the world at transitioning back." And that, he acknowledges, doesn't even begin to consider the separate and distinct travesty visited on the Shooter and his comrades.​The Special Operations men are special beyond their operations. "These guys are self-actualizers," says a retired rear admiral and former SEAL I spoke with. "Top of the pyramid. If they wanted to build companies, they could. They can do anything they put their minds to. That's how smart they are."​​But what's available to these superskilled retiring public servants? "Pretty much nothing," says the admiral. "It's 'Thank you for your service, good luck.'"​​One third-generation military man who has worked both inside and outside government, and who has fought for vets for decades, is sympathetic to the problem. But he notes that the Pentagon is dealing with two hundred thousand new veterans a year, compared with perhaps a few dozen SEALs.​​"Can and should the DOD spend the extra effort it would take to help the superelite guys get with exactly the kind of employers they should have? Investment bankers, say, value that competition, drive, and discipline, not to mention people with security clearances. They [Tier One vets] should be plugged in at executive levels. Any employers who think about it would want to hire these people."​For officials, however, everyone signing out of war is a hero, and even for the masses of retirees, programs are sporadic and often ineffectual. Michelle Obama and Jill Biden have both made transitioning vets a personal cause, though these efforts are largely gestural and don't reach nearly high enough for the skill sets of a member of SEAL Team 6.​​The Virginia-based Navy SEAL Foundation has a variety of supportive programs for the families of SEALs, and the foundation spends $3.2 million a year maintaining them. But as yet they have no real method or programs for upper-level job placement of their most practiced constituency.​​A businessman associated with the foundation says he understands that there is a need the foundation does not fill. "This is an ongoing thing where lots of people seem to want to help but no one has ever really done it effectively because our community is so small. No one's ever cracked it.​​And there real-ly needs to be an education effort well before they separate [from the service] to tell them, 'The world you're about to enter is very different than the one you've been operating in the last fifteen or twenty years.'" One former SEAL I spoke with is a Harvard MBA and now a very successful Wall Street trader whose career path is precisely the kind of example that should be evangelized to outgoing SEALs. His own life reflects that "SpecOps guys could be hugely value-added" to civilian companies, though he says business schools — degrees in general — might be an important step. "It would be great to get a panel of CEOs together who are ready to help these guys get hired." Some big companies do have veteran-outreach specialists — former SEAL Harry Wingo fills that role at Google.​But these individual and scattered shots still do not provide what is needed: a comprehensive battle plan.​​In San Francisco recently, I talked about the Special Ops issue with Twitter CEO Dick Costolo and venture capitalist and Orbitz chairman Jeff Clarke. Both are very interested in offering a business luminary hand to help clandestine operators make their final jump. There is enthusiastic consensus among the business and military people I have canvassed that this kind of outside help is required, perhaps a new nonprofit financed and driven by the Costolos and Clarkes of the world.​​Even before he retired, the Shooter's new business plan dissolved when the SEAL Team 6 members who formed it decided to go in different directions, each casting for a civilian professional life that's challenging and rewarding. The stark realities of post-SEAL life can make even the blood of brothers turn a little cold.​​"I still have the same bills I had in the Navy," the Shooter tells me when we talk in September 2012. But no money at all coming in, from anywhere.​​"I just want to be able to pay all those bills, take care of my kids, and work from there," he says. "I'd like to take the things I learned and help other people in any way I can."​In the last few months, the Shooter has put together some work that involves a kind of discreet consulting for select audiences. But it's a per-event deal, and he's not sure how secure or long-term it will be. And he wants to be much more involved in making the post — SEAL Team 6 transition for others less uncertain.​​The December suicide of one SEAL commander in Afghanistan and the combat death of another — a friend — while rescuing an American doctor from the Taliban underscore his urgent desire to make a difference on behalf of his friends.​​He imagines traveling back to other parts of the world for a few days at a time to do dynamic surveys for businesses looking to put offices in countries that are not entirely safe, or to protect employees they already have in place.​​But he is emphatic: He does not want to carry a gun. "I've fought all the fights. I don't have a need for excitement anymore. Honestly."​​After all, when you've killed the world's most wanted man, not everything should have to be a battle.​​*"They torture the shit* out of people in this movie, don't they? Everyone is chained to something."​The Shooter is sitting next to me at a local movie theater in January, watching _Zero Dark Thirty_ for the first time. He laughs at the beginning of the film about the bin Laden hunt when the screen reads, "Based on firsthand accounts of actual events."​​His uncle, who is also with us, along with the mentor and the Shooter's wife, had asked him earlier whether he'd seen the film already.​​"I saw the original," the Shooter said. As the action moves toward the mission itself, I ask the Shooter whether his heart is beating faster. "No," he says matter-of-factly. But when a SEAL Team 6 movie character yells, _"Breacher!"_ for someone to blow one of the doors of the Abbottabad compound, the Shooter says loudly, "Are you fucking kidding me? _Shut up!_"​​He explains afterward that no one would ever yell, "Breacher!" during an assault. Deadly silence is standard practice, a fist to the helmet sufficient signal for a SEAL with explosive packets to go to work.​​During the shooting sequence, which passes, like the real one, in a flash, his fingers form a steeple under his chin and his focus is intense.​​But his criticisms at dinner afterward are minor.​​"The tattoo scene was horrible," he says about a moment in the film when the ST6 assault group is lounging in Afghanistan waiting to go. "Those guys had little skulls or something instead of having some real _ink_ that goes up to here." He points to his shoulder blade.​​"It was fun to watch. There was just little stuff. The helos turned the wrong way [toward the target], and they talked way, way too much [during the assault itself]. If someone was waiting for you, they could track your movements that way."​​The tactics on the screen "sucked," he says, and "the mission in the damn movie took way too long" compared with the actual event. The stairs inside bin Laden's building were configured inaccurately. A dog in the film was a German shepherd; the real one was a Belgian Malinois who'd previously been shot in the chest and survived. And there's no talking on the choppers in real life.​​There was also no whispered calling out of bin Laden as the SEALs stared up the third-floor stairwell toward his bedroom. "When Osama went down, it was chaos, people screaming. No one called his name."​​"They Hollywooded it up some."​​The portrayal of the chief CIA human bloodhound, "Maya," based on a real woman whose iron-willed assurance about the compound and its residents moved a government to action, was "awesome" says the Shooter. "They made her a tough woman, which she is."​​The Shooter and the mentor joke with each other about the latest thermal/night-vision eyewear used in the movie, which didn't exist when the older man was a SEAL.​​"Dude, what the fuck? How come I never got my four-eye goggles?"​​"We have those." "Are you kidding me?"​​"SEAL Team 6, baby."​​They laugh, at themselves as much as at each other. The Shooter seems smoothed out, untroubled, as relaxed as I've seen him.​​But the conversation turns dark when they discuss the portrayal of the other CIA operative, Jennifer Matthews, who was among seven people killed in 2009 when a suicide bomber was allowed into one of their black-ops stations in Afghanistan.​​They both knew at least one of the paramilitary contractors who perished with her.​​The supper table is suddenly flooded with the surge of strong emotions. Anguish, really, though they both hide it well. This is not a movie. It's real life, where death is final and threats last forever.​The blood is your own, not fake splatter and explosive squibs.​​Movies, books, lore — we all helped make these men brilliant assassins in the name of liberty, lifted them up on our shoulders as unique and exquisitely trained heroes, then left them alone in the shadows of their past.​​Uncertainty will never be far away for the Shooter. His government may have shut the door on him, but he is required to live inside the consequences of his former career.​​One line from the film kept resonating in my head. An actor playing a CIA station chief warns Maya about jihadi vengeance. "Once you're on their list," he says, "you never get off."​ 
​​​​​


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 11, 2013)

That makes no sense...no healthcare, if he really has all those issues he could get a lot for disability and at least be covered personally through the VA.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 11, 2013)

> "That's the reason Al Qaeda has been decimated," he joked, "because she broke my fucking heart."


 
What an arrogant, prickish thing to say.



> Unlike former SEAL Team 6 member Matt Bissonnette (_No Easy Day_), they do not rush to write books or step forward publicly, because that violates the code of the "quiet professional."


 
...but they do a multi-page expose spread in Esquire?



> *The man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden* sat in a wicker chair in my backyard, wondering how he was going to feed his wife and kids or pay for their medical care.


 
I'm pretty sure you're going to be OK, dude.


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## Loki (Feb 11, 2013)

Reality for many Vets and it will continue. Key phrase, 16 years... No retirement


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## Crusader74 (Feb 11, 2013)

Interesting piece.. I personally cannot see this guy out of the job market for too long.. Even if his secret remains, I'm sure as a normal SEAL, he would get employment somewhere..


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

How is it with military vets in the US? Is there a threat of the market being saturated with people that have that unique skill set?


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## Loki (Feb 11, 2013)

Ravage said:


> How is it with military vets in the US? Is there a threat of the market being saturated with people that have that unique skill set?


 
Unique? The market is already saturated...


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## RackMaster (Feb 11, 2013)

Ravage said:


> How is it with military vets in the US? Is there a threat of the market being saturated with people that have that unique skill set?


 
You can ask that question in any country that was involved in conflict over the last decade and now are cutting funding due to the economy.


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## AWP (Feb 11, 2013)

Why did he get out at the 16 year mark? I skimmed the article and couldn't find it.


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## Crusader74 (Feb 11, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Why did he get out at the 16 year mark? I skimmed the article and couldn't find it.


 

I think he said because he doesn't get a rush from two way ranges any more.. Surely he could have taken a desk job somewhere?


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## dknob (Feb 11, 2013)

dude theres no way this asshat is a real SEAL


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## Crusader74 (Feb 11, 2013)

dknob said:


> dude theres no way this asshat is a real SEAL


 

Why not?  Because no SEAL's ever get interviewed.. Right?


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## AWP (Feb 11, 2013)

Irish said:


> I think he said because he doesn't get a rush from two way ranges any more.. Surely he could have taken a desk job somewhere?


 
IF (big word, I know) this is true....*IF* this is true, then he's an idiot and I haven't any sympathy for him. Medically disabled? He could retire. Unable to keep up with the Teams? He could ride a desk, work at BUD/S or Green Platoon as an instructor.....something to keep he and his skills around the Teams with less travel for the sake of his family...but this guy just up and quits?

There's no way this is true and IF it is, then I can't feel bad for the guy. Smart enough to make it into DEVGRU, talented enough to be handpicked for the UBL raid, but didn't have a escape plan for leaving the Navy?

That story is so incredible I can't believe it is real. Dude's a fake or lying or....something. 16 years in, leaves the Navy, and didn't consider what to do BEFORE he ETS'ed? Seriously?


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## dknob (Feb 11, 2013)

lol the level of asshattery is just beyond even the douchiest of SEALs


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## Arrow 4 (Feb 11, 2013)

I got a chance to see the movie last week...I have to say...considering this came out of Hollywood, I thought it was a good movie. I don't know how accurate much of it was, but to the degree they didn't put the SEALs on a pedestal and didn't show the op as a big shoot out or overly dramatize it, I was impressed.


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## dknob (Feb 11, 2013)

there was no pedestal. The word SEAL or Navy was never even used.


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## goon175 (Feb 11, 2013)

That Esquire article is so full of fail it's not even funny. I got about a 1/3 of the way through it before I quit reading.


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

I still can't get around the 'canaries' thingy....oh well, thats public schools for you.


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## RackMaster (Feb 11, 2013)

Ravage said:


> I still can't get around the 'canaries' thingy....oh well, thats public schools for you.


 
  Google is your friend... :-"




> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sentinels
> The classic example is the "canary in the coal mine". Well into the 20th century, coal miners brought canaries into coal mines as an early-warning signal for toxic gases, primarily carbon monoxide.[2] The birds, being more sensitive, would become sick before the miners, who would then have a chance to escape or put on protective respirators.


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## Frank S. (Feb 11, 2013)

I _might_ have watched the flick if Steven "I'm just a cook" Seagal was in it...


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## Brian1/75 (Feb 11, 2013)

Irish said:


> I think he said because he doesn't get a rush from two way ranges any more.. Surely he could have taken a desk job somewhere?


I met some fat/old MSG types in Delta that were no longer doing the deed, but weren't getting kicked out of the unit anytime soon. Plenty of things a guy can do in those units trying to ride out to retirement.


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## Deadpool (Feb 11, 2013)

In my very humble opinion, I truly feel for the unnamed operator in the article if he really is struggling. 

...but with that said, for the unnamed operator to make it into that command he had to have been a great Frogman (its probably the toughest path out there) and for him to make team leader within that command is pretty astounding. He may not necessarily want to commit to Government contracting, or potentially "move on up to the next level", but with his experience - the pay would definitely remedy his situation.


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

RackMaster said:


> Google is your friend... :-"


 
 I know why they were used for, I just don't get the analogy.....


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 11, 2013)

Deadpool said:


> In my very humble opinion, I truly feel for the unnamed operator in the article if he really is struggling.
> 
> ...but with that said, for the unnamed operator to make it into that command he had to have been a great Frogman (its probably the toughest path out there) and for him to make team leader within that command is pretty astounding. He may not necessarily want to commit to Government contracting, or potentially "move on up to the next level", but with his experience - the pay would definitely remedy his situation.


 
I have a strong feeling that you saw an opportunity to spew "OPERATOR" and "FROGMAN" and just couldn't resist. I looked at your profile and wouldn't you know it.... "OPERATOR" was there. You're 18...wtf do you know about what is "the toughest path out there"?

Go do PT...


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## Deadpool (Feb 11, 2013)

MilkTruckCoPilot said:


> I have a strong feeling that you saw an opportunity to spew "OPERATOR" and "FROGMAN" and just couldn't resist. I looked at your profile and wouldn't you know it.... "OPERATOR" was there. You're 18...wtf do you know about what is "the toughest path out there"?
> 
> Go do PT...


I'm sorry If I came off as a douche...I did. I'm going to shut up and leave you guys alone. Sorry.


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 11, 2013)

That whole thing reads like some Pogue in a bar trying to pick up a skank with a lazy eye.


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 11, 2013)

_This is hearsay, but I understand *Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering*. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am fucking voting for this guy. *I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, You're not fucking with my guys. Like, he's thinking about us.*_

I'll be honest, I skimmed through it. However this made me almost crack a rib...


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## AWP (Feb 11, 2013)

Deadpool said:


> In my very humble opinion, I truly feel for the unnamed operator in the article if he really is struggling.
> 
> ...but with that said, for the unnamed operator to make it into that command he had to have been a great Frogman (its probably the toughest path out there) and for him to make team leader within that command is pretty astounding. He may not necessarily want to commit to Government contracting, or potentially "move on up to the next level", but with his experience - the pay would definitely remedy his situation.


 
There are plenty of people in the world today who put their heads down, put their left in front of the right everyday, and provide for their family.


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## Crusader74 (Feb 11, 2013)

Brian1/75 said:


> I met some fat/old MSG types in Delta that were no longer doing the deed, but weren't getting kicked out of the unit anytime soon. Plenty of things a guy can do in those units trying to ride out to retirement.


 
My point exactly.. Same in most SF Unit's world wide.. Why loose huge experience when you can take him off the Teams and put him into the school house, Become part of the Directing Staff .. get home most nights and weekends..


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## dknob (Feb 11, 2013)

DEV has training squadron, it has R&D department, testing and evaluation of new equipment, recruiting. If he's real - he got kicked out.


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## Ravage (Feb 11, 2013)

Owens real name leaked in a matter of days. If he's legit (and if I. is right), will it be the same with this guy?


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## AWP (Feb 11, 2013)

Ravage said:


> Owens real name leaked in a matter of days. If he's legit (and if I. is right), will it be the same with this guy?


 
If this is legit, I wouldn't be surprised to see a name in 48 hours or so.


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## Chopstick (Feb 11, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> If this is legit, I wouldn't be surprised to see a name in 48 hours or so.


DOH!  Everyone knows Obama got Osama!


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## dknob (Feb 11, 2013)

omg its confirmed hes the real deal


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## Loki (Feb 11, 2013)

*SEAL who killed Bin Laden blasts government, says he's been abandoned*

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/11/seal-who-killed-bin-laden-now-jobless/#ixzz2KeG9UIUI


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## Loki (Feb 11, 2013)

Rules of retirement are stated when you sign the line. Everyone knows the deal from square number one 20 years for retirement. There are allot of whole lot of guys not collecting retirement that chose to resign or ETSed prior to retirement.


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## Arrow 4 (Feb 11, 2013)

dknob said:


> omg its confirmed hes the real deal


Is it verified? I haven't seen him ID'd yet.


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## RackMaster (Feb 11, 2013)

If this dude has medical issues that were identified prior to separation, then why was he permitted to voluntary release (or whatever you call it).  Did no one in the admin/release section not say "Hey fuckstick, if you get your Doctor to initiate it; you get benefits otherwise have a nice fucked up life".  Just sayin...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AWP (Feb 11, 2013)

So....where's our "Paul Harvey" moment for this story?


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## Swill (Feb 11, 2013)

Clark: How can they have nothing for their children?
Ellen: Well he's been out of work for almost seven years.
Clark: In seven years he couldn't find a job?
Ellen: Catherine says he's been holding out for a management position.


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## goon175 (Feb 11, 2013)

The fact that this guy is the real deal makes me so sad. I wanted to believe it was some poser that could talk the talk good enough to convince some reporter he was it. I don't care where you served, don't show your ass like that in public, be a professional.


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## Loki (Feb 11, 2013)

RackMaster said:


> If this dude has medical issues that were identified prior to separation, then why was he permitted to voluntary release (or whatever you call it). Did no one in the admin/release section not say "Hey fuckstick, if you get your Doctor to initiate it; you get benefits otherwise have a nice fucked up life". Just sayin...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
Agreed; I mean no disrespect however, this entire case is missing something somewhere. I'm not connecting the dots here. The VA has attorneys that will rep him, they will also ensure he gets what he deserves, a service related disability claim is warranted if the circumstances are there. I'm just not understanding the circumstances and they don't seem to fit.  As for divorce every guy I know in this and the SF community is on wife two or three, hell every career Soldier know is divorced. This thing is missing allot of moving parts in the story.


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## Cyberchp (Feb 12, 2013)

Two more related articles. 
http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-e...has-access-to-health-care?tag=osama-bin-laden



> http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-ru...illed-bin-laden-is-denied-healthcare-1.207506
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

ok now 2  + 2=4


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## Marine0311 (Feb 12, 2013)

Another story of a veteran getting shit on by the VA and the system.


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## Crusader74 (Feb 12, 2013)

He might have "assumed " he was entitled to more if he left early,  because of what he did ..


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## goon175 (Feb 12, 2013)

Bullshit. Your telling me a guy who was smart enough and tough enough to make it into DEVGRU, and be among the men selected for the UBL hit is not smart enough to figure out what his benefits are? Oh, so he didn't have to go to levy briefings or separation briefings? Or maybe he didn't go because he was just too cool for school? Ignorance is not a justification here. This guy is looking for a pity party. The fact that this guy is trying to play dumb is ridiculous, and his b.s. and this b.s. article all just feed into stereotypes that I have worked my ass off for the last 3 years trying convince people aren't true. Seriously, this guy is acting like a little kid and it's embarrassing to the NSW community in general and the DEVGRU community specifically.


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## Crusader74 (Feb 12, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Bullshit. Your telling me a guy who was smart enough and tough enough to make it into DEVGRU, and be among the men selected for the UBL hit is not smart enough to figure out what his benefits are? Oh, so he didn't have to go to levy briefings or separation briefings? Or maybe he didn't go because he was just too cool for school? Ignorance is not a justification here. This guy is looking for a pity party. The fact that this guy is trying to play dumb is ridiculous, and his b.s. and this b.s. article all just feed into stereotypes that I have worked my ass off for the last 3 years trying convince people aren't true. Seriously, this guy is acting like a little kid and it's embarrassing to the NSW community in general and the DEVGRU community specifically.


 
Specifically what I am saying is, "Hey, I killed the most wanted man in the world, and won't want for anything again"


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

Was there anyone on the raid who isn't a douche?

Oh, probably the guys who aren't running their cake holsters to the media.

"The Shooter" is an idiot. I stand by that. I also think there's more someone isn't saying. I can't wrap my head around this story. DEVGRU and he shows the phenomenal thought process displayed in that article? Wow. I hope he's PNG'ed from the community.


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## JBS (Feb 12, 2013)

The past few years that DEVGRU has been continuously on the front page, it's been involved in one politically convenient drama after another. 

How did one of the greatest, most effective and most clandestine units on earth go from a place of prestige to a military soap opera?   It used to be that you didn't even hear about these guys except in fiction, (or in the past tense with Marcinko).  Now we're going to be hearing from them every time they run out of toilet paper? 

I've seen PFCs work the VA and disability system.   It's difficult but not impossible.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

This is another in a series of articles featuring veterans allowing themselves to be portrayed as victims.


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## Chopstick (Feb 12, 2013)

*ETA since when have libs gotten so upset about veterans getting screwed?  This is even on MSNBC.  Just a few days ago fewls were posting filth about Chris Kyle being killed now they are crying over this alleged SEAL's healthcare?  I dont get it. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50778489

Did Esquire get punked?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=34097


> Yeah, well, I’ve been told that you folks getting out of the service have five years of Tricare, whatever is left of it after this administration gets done with it. And that doesn’t include the Veterans Affairs stuff. All of those things would get him a service-connected rating, treatment and help for his family. And as TSO said; “…and he can grab a 200k job in about 4 seconds with DynCorps”.
> So, I’m thinking that this Phil Bronstein, who happens to be the executive chairman of the Center for Investigative Reporting and wrote the article got rolled by someone, it looks like there were quite a few involved in the asshattery. If he wasn’t tricked by a phony, then the article he wrote sucked. Either way, I wouldn’t let him be the executive director of anything named for investigative journalism.


 


I havent had the time to view this, just a couple of seconds but for your perusal:


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## goon175 (Feb 12, 2013)

I hate to say it, but if there is this much of a shit show in the public eye, imagine what is going on that is not in the public eye. I hate to imagine this, but my gut feeling is that this is just the tip of the iceberg for this organization right now.


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

I half wonder how long before we add the DEVGRU skipper's name to the relieved commander's thread...


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

"If we only kill five per night, we're wasting our time."

5 KIA x 365 days x 12 years of combat = 21,900 KIAs


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## TH15 (Feb 12, 2013)

I sincerely hope it is not a real story..

What I'm wondering is, he apparently had suicidal thoughts along with drinking and Ambien, and they still allowed him to be in the unit?


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm fucking amazed, just floored at all this bullshit... I'm setting here thinking WTF! I'm not even close to what this guy has supposedly done. No where near, just a hang around Joe slug shit-bag CA dude. But I have done some shit. I followed my security out brief, signed the documents, went through the process on several things. I don't know even 2% of what this guy does and there's no fucking way I would put myself out there. They counselled me as I walked out the door and in my face about opening my mouth. Why in the fuck would you even think about talking about this shit or an association with it. Maybe I just don't get it or perhaps its so far beyond me that I just can't get my head wrapped around it.


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> "If we only kill five per night, we're wasting our time."
> 5 KIA x 365 days x 12 years of combat = 21,900 KIAs


 
Pretty staggering stats; it seems they could have single handily solved the entire crisis and conflicts with these numbers...  Get your kill on!


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## Chopstick (Feb 12, 2013)

I still feel more and more like someone is pulling someone's leg.

http://www.businessinsider.com/dont-feel-too-sorry-for-the-seal-who-shot-bin-laden-2013-2



> ublished by the Center For Investigative Reporting in conjunction with Esquire, "The Shooter" by Phil Bronstein describes how this American hero has been neglected:
> [T]he Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendinitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:​Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.​This passage, though dramatic, is less than accurate.
> Perhaps the Shooter and Bronstein haven't heard of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, which authorized five years of free health care for all combat veterans of Post 9/11 operations. As soon as servicemembers get out, they are covered under the Veterans Affairs health system and can walk into any VA-facility.
> Bronstein responded to a query about this from Megan McCloskey at Stars and Stripes, saying, “No one ever told him that this is available." He went on to say there wasn’t space in the article to explain that the former SEAL’s lack of healthcare was driven by an ignorance of the benefits to which he is entitled.
> This assertion coming from a servicemember who has been in the service for 16 years — especially with transition assistance classes designed specifically for educating veterans as they leave active duty, seems a bit far-fetched.


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

There wasn't enough space in this gazillion page article to present facts which would detract from our sensationalist "reporting." Additionally, presenting the facts would make the hero look a little thick in the brain housing group, further undermining our sensationalist scoop. We have the first interview with the guy, we can make him look however we want.


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## Poccington (Feb 12, 2013)

Why can't people just keep their mouth shut?

Seriously, you don't reach the top of your profession by being a complete bell end. So what happened, that has suddenly turned people into complete mongo's?


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 12, 2013)

Jesus what a long article. This is what I took from it _"Unlike former SEAL Team 6 member Matt Bissonnette (No Easy Day), they do not rush to write books or step forward publicly, because that violates the code of the "quiet professional."_ No we just agree to "novel like" write ups in a magazine... 

_In a corner, pouring drinks, he and I established some rules. He would consider talking to me only after his last, upcoming four-month deployment to Afghanistan had ended and he had exited the Navy. And he would not go public; he would not be named. That would be counter to the team's code, and it would also put a huge "kill me" target on his back._

If you don't want to be named, then don't come out. It's almost impossible that in this day and age ANYONE would think that once they agree to an interview, they won't be found out. When you make inflammatory statements (truthful or not) or have it implied by the author, that you have been abandoned by your country, goverment ect. I promise you that your identity will be found out and published.

_The government does provide 180 days of transitional health-care benefits, but the Shooter is eligible only if he agrees to *remain on active duty "in a support role," or become a reservist.* _

Then think about yourself and the family. Take the "support" role.  Share your knowledge with the up and coming guys. Go to one of the reserve SEAL Teams, GET YOUR 20..... On second thought, let's just screw ourselves..  

_Either way, his life would not be his own. Instead, he'll buy private insurance for $486 a month, but some treatments that relieve his wartime pains, like $120 for weekly chiropractic care, are out-of-pocket._

Tricare only covers the expense at certain military bases. There are DC's that treat servicemen for free, I don't doubt that he could find one...seperated or not I'm sure something could be worked out. 

_Anyone who leaves early also gets no pension, so he is without income. Even if he had stayed in for the full twenty, his pension would have been half his base pay: $2,197 a month. The same as a member of the Navy choir._

That's why it's called a pension/retirement... It's not meant for you to build a new life with. 

In his 16years in the Navy did he never know of ONE single person to retire? Or ETS..however it's called in the Navy? He talks about buying $3-400 sunglasses. No wonder he's in the hole.


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

TH15 said:


> What I'm wondering is, he apparently had suicidal thoughts along with drinking and Ambien, and they still allowed him to be in the unit?


 
Do you have any idea how many people you just described?

Besides, Ambien is chewed like tic-tacs over here. Doesn't mean I agree with it or condone it, but the number of guys and gals zonked out on Ambien is ridiculous.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

I saw first hand what happens to some people when they take Ambien after drinking.  It's not pretty, and may or may not lead to one or more of the following:  mistaking an office cubical for a urinal; puking your guts out in an airplane terminal, on the bus taking you from the terminal to the plane, and on the plane; wanting to fight the most inoffensive captain in the whole unit; and setting fire to Euros on the plane, while it is in flight.


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## goon175 (Feb 12, 2013)

Pictures or it didn't happen...


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

It did happen, thank GOD there were no pictures.

I think there is a case study here on the site that may or may not describe some of the shenanigans that did or did not  happen on that trip.

Worst.FlighthomefromIraqorAfghanistan.Ever.


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 12, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I saw first hand what happens to some people when they take Ambien after drinking. It's not pretty, and may or may not lead to one or more of the following: mistaking an office cubical for a urinal; puking your guts out in an airplane terminal, on the bus taking you from the terminal to the plane, and on the plane; wanting to fight the most inoffensive captain in the whole unit; and setting fire to Euros on the plane, while it is in flight.


 
How the hell did you make Lt Col?  Mind you we had a Maj that got sauced up and bit a female Capt on the leg then growled like a dog, he still made Lt Col.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> How the hell did you make Lt Col? Mind you we had a Maj that got sauced up and bit a female Capt on the leg then growled like a dog, he still made Lt Col.


 
Screw up and move up, right?  

I wasn't the one doing any of the puking, fighting, peeing, or burning, which again may or may not have happened (statute of limitations?).  

I was the guy *in charge* of the people fighting, puking, burning, and generally making drunken fools out of themselves.  "I know!  I'll give all these drunk guys Ambien, that'll make them sleepy and settle down!"  :wall:

I did have an unfortunate incident that involved a night of drinking cider and a morning of throwing it up in my British friend's driveway when I was sent from Iraq to the UK for an important briefing, but that is a completely different story and not at all relevant to what is being discussed at the moment.


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## Poccington (Feb 12, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> How the hell did you make Lt Col? * Mind you we had a Maj that got sauced up and bit a female Capt on the leg then growled like a dog, he still made Lt Col.*


 
I would genuinely like this 100 times over if I could.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> How the hell did you make Lt Col? Mind you we had a Maj that got sauced up and bit a female Capt on the leg then growled like a dog, he still made Lt Col.


 
She probably deserved it. Majors don't do stuff like that on accident.  At least he didn't mistake her for a fire hydrant.


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 12, 2013)

Apparently she was stealing drinks at the bar so it was well deserved.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

There's got to be a lot more to this story (the one about the SEAL, not the one I hijacked this thread with).  I can't believe for a minute that a guy with that much time in the SEALs doesn't have an exit strategy, especially if he's that close to retirement.  This whole thing smacks of, "I'm the one who killed bin Laden, it was me all by myself, so I expect to be taken care of and coddled the rest of my life."  This guy comes across as a self-serving narcissist and this whole story just makes the military in general look bad.


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

You whanna bet there's some pissed off folks right now about this? As if there wasn't enough heat and unwanted attention on this unit already.


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

How would you like this headline all over the national news and the world press; 

*"SEAL who killed Bin Laden bitter, unaware of health coverage!"*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/11/SEAL-who-killed-bin-laden-now-jobless/?test=latestnews

http://www.inquisitr.com/520956/SEAL-who-killed-bin-laden-bitter-over-health-benefits/

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/esquire-SEAL-bin-laden-151615575.html

http://www.ksdk.com/news/world/article/362538/28/Controversy-over-SEAL-who-shot-Osama-bin-Laden-

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/us-news/it...report-SEAL-who-killed-bin-laden-jobless-hurt

*"Esquire’s SEAL story questioned by military newspaper"*
Stars and Stripes contacted Bronstein, who told the paper that no one told the SEAL he was eligible for health care benefits. He also said that there wasn’t enough space in the Esquire article to, as Stars and Stripes put it, "explain that the former SEAL’s lack of health care was driven by an ignorance of the benefits to which he is entitled." In the Esquire piece, Bronstein also states that the SEAL was not given a pension. But according to the Stars and Stripes piece, no officer who serves less than 20 years gets a pension "unless he has to medically retire." Misinformation like this doesn’t help veterans,” Brandon Friedman, a former VA public affairs officer, told Stars and Stripes. “When one veteran hears in a high-profile story that another veteran was denied care, it makes him or her less likely to enroll in the VA system.”

*Damn, I wonder how many phone calls he is getting right now and being called "DUMBASS!" I just occasionally post some invalidated, questionable stupid shit on forums. I would have to change my name and identity if this was me. There is no way I could ever live this down... You want to talk about hard to get a job, after this he maybe picking up trash. Better yet, he maybe a VA benefit counselor... *


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

Mac_NZ said:


> How the hell did you make Lt Col? Mind you we had a Maj that got sauced up and bit a female Capt on the leg then growled like a dog, he still made Lt Col.


 
I can add one more person to my "People I should party with before I die" list.


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## Loki (Feb 12, 2013)

Throw a brother a bone...


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## Frank S. (Feb 12, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I saw first hand what happens to some people when they take Ambien after drinking. It's not pretty, and may or may not lead to one or more of the following: mistaking an office cubical for a urinal; puking your guts out in an airplane terminal, on the bus taking you from the terminal to the plane, and on the plane; wanting to fight the most inoffensive captain in the whole unit; and setting fire to Euros on the plane, while it is in flight.


 
Not making light of it, but that sounds like me on gin. Yonks ago, mind...


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## Marauder06 (Feb 12, 2013)

I find it funny now, it wasn't so funny when it happened.  I spent all of Thanksgiving break wondering how many bars I was going to lose over this incident.


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I find it funny now, it wasn't so funny when it happened. I spent all of Thanksgiving break wondering how many bars I was going to lose over this incident.


 
Had that happened you could join the AWP circuit and together we could make s'mores over burning orphans whilst (always wanted to use that word) reclining in our unicorn and baby seal skin chairs.


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## Brian1/75 (Feb 12, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Bullshit. Your telling me a guy who was smart enough and tough enough to make it into DEVGRU, and be among the men selected for the UBL hit is not smart enough to figure out what his benefits are? Oh, so he didn't have to go to levy briefings or separation briefings? Or maybe he didn't go because he was just too cool for school? Ignorance is not a justification here. This guy is looking for a pity party. The fact that this guy is trying to play dumb is ridiculous, and his b.s. and this b.s. article all just feed into stereotypes that I have worked my ass off for the last 3 years trying convince people aren't true. Seriously, this guy is acting like a little kid and it's embarrassing to the NSW community in general and the DEVGRU community specifically.


I'm not going to lie this is the first I've heard of it and I've been the last few years without healthcare insurance. I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent guy. I guess I'm going to have to apply. I'm not sure how it is at DEVGRU, but when I etsed all those ACAP meetings and briefs were seen as some bs short-timer's excuse to get out of work and I generally wasn't allowed to go. Only one of them is required if I recalled right. When I final-outted, I was told this was a common theme among separating Batt Boys.


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## goon175 (Feb 12, 2013)

As far as healthcare is concerned, you don't get it. I know you were aware that if you didn't do 20, you weren't going to get healthcare, unless you were wounded. As far as not being allowed to ACAP properly, you should have brought that up to some one. Not the right answer at all.


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## Brian1/75 (Feb 13, 2013)

goon175 said:


> As far as healthcare is concerned, you don't get it. I know you were aware that if you didn't do 20, you weren't going to get healthcare, unless you were wounded. As far as not being allowed to ACAP properly, you should have brought that up to some one. Not the right answer at all.


Not Tricare, but apparently the VA has something that goes out to 5-years from discharge for veterans of combat theaters. I haven't quite gotten an understanding of the extent of it, but it seems to cover things like physicals, medication, and even surgery possibly without copayments depending on income. This has to be done at VA Healthcare facilities, but it's better than nothing. Not exactly well advertised. As far as ACAPing, you're not trying to start a storm with IG or what not a few months out. This attitude went all the way up to the company commander, so you're talking about bumping heads with a field-grade officer when guys are trying to ride on out. I'm sure it continues. You know a lot of things weren't the right answer at Regiment.

http://www.va.gov/healthbenefits/re...85-health_care_benefits_overview_2012_eng.pdf


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## goon175 (Feb 13, 2013)

If it went up to the company commander than that is really surprising to me. I figured it was just some idiot giving you a hard time. That is a big no-go in my book. Oh well, your out now haha, and there is always google!


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## Frank S. (Feb 13, 2013)

... Looping back to the topic.


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## Swill (Feb 13, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Was there anyone on the raid who isn't a douche?


 
I heard the pilots and aircrew were pretty cool guys.


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## TH15 (Feb 13, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Do you have any idea how many people you just described?
> 
> Besides, Ambien is chewed like tic-tacs over here. Doesn't mean I agree with it or condone it, but the number of guys and gals zonked out on Ambien is ridiculous.


Damn, no, I apologize I did not mean to offend anyone. I didn't realize it was widespread..


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## DA SWO (Feb 13, 2013)

I didn't attend a single brief in 96 when I left AD, I only attended the single required briefing in 08 when I retired.

I was too busy, and (in 96) too wrapped up in a project that (I believed, and still believe) was too important to not devout 100% too.

Same in 08, I was too busy fighting the ACC Staff (making sure my E's did not get shafted when I left).

That said, there is this thing called the internet, and a website called Google.  

I'd really like to know why he left the Navy though; my bet is he got promoted out of ST6 and didn't want to lower himself by going to a "White ST".  I also bet his wife played a role, so she should get her ass into the workplace and help out.


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 13, 2013)

Swill said:


> I heard the pilots and aircrew were pretty cool guys.


 
You left out the dog..WAIT FOR IT.... that's who will be next in line for the tell all release article/book.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 13, 2013)

Swill said:


> I heard the pilots and aircrew were pretty cool guys.


 
Well...they were Army, right


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## AWP (Feb 15, 2013)

A "shocking" announcement from NSWC.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nies-seals-claim-made-in-esquire-article?lite



> "This former SEAL made a deliberate and informed decision to leave the Navy several years short of retirement status," Rear Adm. Sean Pybus, commander of Naval Special Warfare Command, wrote in a statement. "Months ahead of his separation, he was counseled on status and benefits, and provided with options to continue his career until retirement eligible. Claims to the contrary in these matters are false."
> 
> "Naval Special Warfare has bright and motivated people engaged in difficult, but satisfying work. They are very familiar with their compensation and options," he wrote.


 


> Pybus said he is "very disappointed with the few people who use their SEAL cachet for self-serving purposes, particularly through falsehoods and certainly when the safety and security of themselves and their active-duty teammates and families are put at risk."


 
Then hold a GI party in your house, Admiral, and clean it up.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 15, 2013)

How about white feathers...in envelopes from former team members?


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 15, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> A "shocking" announcement from NSWC.
> 
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nies-seals-claim-made-in-esquire-article?lite
> 
> Then hold a GI party in your house, Admiral, and clean it up.


 


So he dug his own hole....

That's a tad different from how it was described in the all telling interview..


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## goon175 (Feb 15, 2013)

In the article it states that his base pay is 2,197 dollars per month. There is no fucking way. I am guessing he was either an E-7 or E-8, with 16 years in. Base Pay for an E-7 at 16 years is 4,158 dollars per month, and for E-8's it is 4,469 dollars per month. 
 

Yeah, five or six guys a night...sure...
I'm going to buy a "demon hunter" cd
the 'doorbell' story cracked me up. reminded me of something similar that happened in iraq
I guaran-damn-tee he was making more than 60k a year. I make more than that as a fucking recruiter.
His thoughts on the movie very closely mirror what I thought. All the yelling was stupid, and the tactics were horrible.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 21, 2013)

It was just on Fox and the go the Federal Government is adding insult to injury by investigating our "shooter" trying figure out if he divulged classified info.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 21, 2013)

How is that adding insult to injury? Who/what has been injured here, other than a retriree's pride and national security, and who/what is being insulted by what I think is a proper call to conduct an investigation?

I think they should start by finding out how this civilian reporter found out this guy was "the shooter"  in the first place.


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## NBC-Guy (Mar 7, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> There's got to be a lot more to this story (the one about the SEAL, not the one I hijacked this thread with). I can't believe for a minute that a guy with that much time in the SEALs doesn't have an exit strategy, especially if he's that close to retirement. This whole thing smacks of, "I'm the one who killed bin Laden, it was me all by myself, so I expect to be taken care of and coddled the rest of my life." This guy comes across as a self-serving narcissist and this whole story just makes the military in general look bad.


 
He probably didn't get his full 6 months to ACAP


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## Marauder06 (Mar 7, 2013)

NBC-Guy said:


> He probably didn't get his full 6 months to ACAP


 
lol
excellent cross-threading and pushing my buttons.


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## Ravage (Mar 25, 2013)

Well this did not last long did it...

http://sofrep.com/18453/esquire-is-screwed-duped-by-seal-ubl-shooter/



> As much as I like to dodge the SEAL drama train these days, there are still a couple of big stories that have left the station before Naval Special Warfare’s WARCOM could put the brakes on. First female Navy SEAL? It’s coming, and in a way you’d never expect…
> 
> One story coming out of Joint Special Operations Command is that the Esquire “shooter” isn’t the shooter after all. To be clear, he wasn’t the point man that put the well placed rounds into UBL’s head that ended the terrorist leaders life. Sure he was there, and deserves credit but he wasn’t the man who shot UBL, and ended his life. And this is an important fact that must be clarified.
> 
> ...


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## KBar666 (Mar 25, 2013)

^^^
Not surprised. I'm pretty sure more than a few us suspected as much.


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## AWP (Mar 25, 2013)

> Ok, according to “the shooter,” he was the second man in the stack behind the point man


 


> The shooter was the 3 man into the room, and he just re-engaged into the body laying on the floor.


 
So someone went past the #2 and beat him to the room or is this a typo?

Now this makes sense, looking at the first quote. Bissonette claimed to be the guy behind the point man, now the details are coming out that the Esquire "shooter" was #2? Esquire acted like their man wasn't Bissonette, but now the details of their interviewee dovetail with B's No Easy Day?

Nice little scam he's running.

I know JSOC is trying to take the high road here, but they need to come out and blast this clown officially. Destroy his integrity and image, and then move on.This is becoming such a comical drama I expect Lifetime to buy the movie rights. "The epic TRUE story of the man behind the man who isn't the man who was the behind the man who killed Usama bin Laden."


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## DasBoot (Mar 25, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> So someone went past the #2 and beat him to the room or is this a typo?
> 
> Now this makes sense, looking at the first quote. Bissonette claimed to be the guy behind the point man, now the details are coming out that the Esquire "shooter" was #2? Esquire acted like their man wasn't Bissonette, but now the details of their interviewee dovetail with B's No Easy Day?
> 
> ...


The way I read it- Bissonette's story matches up better with the new info. If he was the #2 then the pointman went in and pushed the woman aside, and Bissonette and the "shooter" hit him


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## Ravage (Mar 25, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> "The epic TRUE story of the man behind the man who isn't the man who was the behind the man who killed Usama bin Laden."


 
You should write movie trailer scripts.


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## Ravage (Mar 25, 2013)

Still I would never suspect a SEAL to be a fake. Kind of ironic.


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## policemedic (Mar 25, 2013)

Here's what I believe to be true, and the only thing that matters- a United States Navy SEAL killed UBL.  I don't care who it was, and I don't think anyone who wasn't on the objective/in the chain-of-command has a right to know. 

The fact that all of this dis/information is out is, in my opinion, a direct result of POTUS identifying DEVGRU as the unit that was involved.  No information should have been released beyond the fact that UBL was killed by U.S. forces; all inquiries should have been met with a stern, "No comment."


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## Kraut783 (Mar 25, 2013)

policemedic said:


> Here's what I believe to be true, and the only thing that matters- a United States Navy SEAL killed UBL. I don't care who it was, and I don't think anyone who wasn't on the objective/in the chain-of-command has a right to know.
> 
> The fact that all of this dis/information is out is, in my opinion, a direct result of POTUS identifying DEVGRU as the unit that was involved. No information should have been released beyond the fact that UBL was killed by U.S. forces; all inquiries should have been met with a stern, "No comment."


 
Ya, agree with ya there.  Might even has just said U.S. Special Operations Forces killed UBL, and.....no comment.


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Mar 25, 2013)

I feel exhausted just trying to follow all of this. Less drama comes from Lifetime movies!


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## goon175 (Mar 25, 2013)

When I saw the headline, I was hoping that the guy in the article was a complete fraud, but it turns out he was still in DEVGRU, and on that mission. So, in my eyes, it is just as disappointing that a guy at that level did what he did for esquire, killer of UBL or not is besides the fact. We expect a higher level of maturity and professionalism at that level than what was displayed in the article.


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## dknob (Mar 25, 2013)

The shooter is not bassonette, the shooter is the third man in the room. Matt writes how point man shoots UBL and tackles the women while bassonette and guy behind put a few chest rounds in UBL.


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## Scotth (Mar 26, 2013)

I saw this bit in a CNN article,



> Now, another member of the secretive SEAL Team 6, which executed the bin Laden raid, tells CNN the story of the Shooter as presented in Esquire is false. According to this serving SEAL Team 6 operator, the story is "complete B-S."
> 
> SEAL Team 6 operators are now in "serious lockdown" when it comes to "talking to anybody" about the bin Laden raid and say they have been frustrated to see what they consider to be the inaccurate story in Esquire receive considerable play without a response. Phil Bronstein, who wrote the 15,000-word piece about the Shooter for Esquire, was booked on CNN, Fox and many other TV networks after his story came out.


remainder of story: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/26/world/bergen-who-killed-bin-laden/index.html

That was good for a chuckle.

Naming the SMU for completing the Osama raid has nothing to do with the people talking about it in detail to the press. SMU's have been acknowledge in all kinds of mission since Desert One until today's ops and people didn't talk publicly. In the end it comes down to the people involved or "in the know" being accountable for their own actions and words.

It's the same whether it's the military or the US government in the broader sense. People talk for two general purposes. It comes down to greed or a need to be acknowledges for being special or "in the know" because they don't think they're getting that recognition or someone else is getting what they deserve.


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## Brian1/75 (Mar 27, 2013)

Was Delta named in Desert One? I thought they were still a classified unit until Beckwith wrote his book.


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## amlove21 (Feb 6, 2014)

PattyW said:


> Why'd he do it then? To make sure his weapon still worked? No, he did it to make sure the mother fucker was dead.


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## amlove21 (Feb 7, 2014)

Brian1/75 said:


> Was Delta named in Desert One? I thought they were still a classified unit until Beckwith wrote his book.


I can't say for 100%, but all SMU's have had unclassed names/mission statements for quite a while.


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## AWP (Sep 17, 2015)

Sadness, lulz, this has it all. Bribing the CIA for details? I'm not even surprised. I'm just butthurt I didn't do anything cool enough so I could sell out.

Zero Dark Thirty Producers Accused of Using Luxury Goods to Woo C.I.A. Spies



> A newly released ethics report from the agency’s inspector general will likely revive the issue—specifically in the agency's accusation that in order to obtain information, the film’s creators bribed several C.I.A. officers with very fancy things.


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## Brill (Sep 17, 2015)

Grilled cheese & fries??? Passing SBU???

Did VF dig into Hillary's computer skills?


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## SpitfireV (Sep 18, 2015)

Pretty poor form.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2017)

I finally got around to watching this movie after someone gave it to me on DVD.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that I liked it.


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## Muppet (Sep 20, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I finally got around to watching this movie after someone gave it to me on DVD.
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised to find that I liked it.



Pop wanted a movie to watch, I suggested that. He liked it...

M.


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