# Prep info for you PJ hopefuls out there



## JustAnotherJ (Feb 10, 2008)

hey guys, since we got a couple PJ Wannabes, possibly some Gonnabes, i wanted to give a little advice.
The first course after basic training, indoc, is all about PT and Mental strength.  I got no advice for basic training cause lets face it, it's gay and sucks;)  As far as mental strength goes...ya got it or ya don't.  But for PT...before any of you even get to basic, here's a requirement you need to make for yourself before you go in.  Run 3 miles in under 21 minutes (best is 18 min), 85 push ups in 2 minutes (back straight, chest down to a fist length off the ground, no rest position), 100 sit ups in 2 minutes (hands behind head, sitting up to break 90 degree plane), 16 pull ups (good form, no kipping, and from a dead hang) and swim 1500 meters in under 26 min.  That PAST test isn't that great of a gauge for how well you'll do at indoc, and some recruiters are lying amorphous globs of dog shit who'll fudge the numbers just to get the points of having a PJ sign up.  These numbers I've given you are the numbers for the PJ PT Test...that is how recruitment should be done.  If you're not meeting those standards, you have no business going to indoc.  Just be honest with yourself and also realize that i'm not trying to hold anyone back from trying, but i'm trying to allow you the greatest chance of success for the course.  

Now let me be honest...Did I meet those standards before i went to Indoc? Nope, but i also had to go through indoc twice because of it.  Had someone fed me this advice back then, i would have made it mine and met those goals, and my life would have been a _little_ easier.

p.s.  the course is still a royal bitch, so don't think that PT will carry you through alone.  *Being part of a team is what will make you succeed*


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## wonderrod (Feb 23, 2008)

Thanks for taking the time to post this, although I'm focusing only on becoming a Rescue Swimmer now, this will help IF I ever get a shot at going to Pipeline.

-Rod


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## gearjunky (Feb 28, 2008)

Thank you alot sir. I think I am on the right path. Im doing ok on the swim team. ( Side note: I was given the award at state finals for outstanding sportsmanship & leadership ) All I need to work on now is dryland training and getting my grades up. The airforce wont let me do anything if I dont do good in school. Thanks again. Its a honor talking to you. :)


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## al2004 (Feb 29, 2008)

Is water con, treading water, and other water stuff not a part of Indoc? Just curious, since those fellows are quitting on the first day in Panama City.


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## Flores (May 14, 2008)

Thanks for that info.


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## Jollygreenfe (May 15, 2008)

One good reason for all that PT? Try being the last guy up the rope ladder with a 60lb+ ruck, weapon/ammo and comm gear with nobody holding the bottom. I've helped MANY PJ's into my warm cozy PaveHawk cabin after they fought thier way up and then got to the cabin door and just burned out. I guess that is one big reason the PJ's get the big bucks!!! 

Cheers!
Jolly

In the attached pic the guys don't apper to have any gear on but you get the idea.


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## Frisco (Jun 14, 2008)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9w-L85511w"]YouTube - PJ/Combat Diver Fin Swim technique[/ame]

I thought I would add this, Found it on youtube.. i'll leave it up to somebody more experienced to vet, but hopefully it'll help somebody out..


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## tldc88 (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm no expert, but can only relay what my son says.  He's in week 4 indoc. The one thing you can't do is over prepair for is the water con.  Trainers make it hard as **** to see where you stand mentally.  Everyone will strugle in the water at some point or another.  You'll get pushed right up to your edge daily, and thats when people start dropping.  They just want to see how you react under a great deal of stress.  Today is eval day....all I can do is pray.


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## MangOnFire (Sep 24, 2008)

tldc88 said:


> I'm no expert, but can only relay what my son says.  He's in week 4 indoc. The one thing you can't do is over prepair for is the water con.  Trainers make it hard as **** to see where you stand mentally.  Everyone will strugle in the water at some point or another.  You'll get pushed right up to your edge daily, and thats when people start dropping.  They just want to see how you react under a great deal of stress.  Today is eval day....all I can do is pray.




Speaking of Water Con, can someone please go into a little detail as to what it entails and what standards you are required to meet? 

I assume the instructors teach you what you should be doing, and then the secret is to remain calm and follow the instructions they gave you in training. 

I am comfortable in the water (grew up on the TN River ) but have always been curious as to what all goes on at Water Con and how it all works.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


BTW- Best of luck/skill to your son tldc. I'm rooting for him!


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## AWP (Sep 24, 2008)

http://www.pararescue.com/unitinfo/indoc.asp



MangOnFire said:


> Speaking of Water Con, can someone please go into a little detail as to what it entails and what standards you are required to meet?
> 
> I assume the instructors teach you what you should be doing, and then the secret is to remain calm and follow the instructions they gave you in training.
> 
> ...


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## MangOnFire (Sep 25, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> http://www.pararescue.com/unitinfo/indoc.asp



Thanks for the info, FF.


Also, I was curious...It seems pretty much unanimous that Water Con is the biggest cause for washing out/SIE...

Is this similar to BUD/S how in Hell Week, the vast majority of trainees quit before and during (Hell Week)...and then afterwards a large majority of the 'survivors' go on to ultimately pass?

Generally speaking, as long as one is motivated and intelligent/studious enough to pass the demanding academics of PJ training, do they generally go on to complete the PJ pipeline?

Just trying to get a rough idea of what % of washouts are ultimately due to Indoc/Water Con vs inability to pass the training once you get beyond Indoc. Would you say that most of the weeding out is done at Indoc?

Hopefully the question made sense. Thanks!


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## AWP (Sep 25, 2008)

My link was derived from a very brief Google search. I suspect that many of your questions can be answers via open source materials. While I'm not a PJ or anything remotely highspeed I do know that most SOF courses don't like people to try and G-2 them. Part of the learning experience is dealing with the unknown, especially standards.

If a PJ wants to answer your qustions, that's fine. However, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I'm not being rude, that's just the nature of the beast concerning the subject matter.


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## MangOnFire (Sep 25, 2008)

Yeah no worries I have actually looked at that site in the past, I just wanted to be courteous and thank you for responding.

Being prior Amphib Navy I worked comms with a lot of the Team guys and they were usually pretty willing to give you pointers all day, as they knew that it wasn't about whether or not you knew the pain was coming...it was about whether or not you could take it. Having the info beforehand doesn't abrogate the need for you to still hack it. 

The same type of (rough) statistics are pretty much readily available re: BUD/S, Army SF, etc whereas with PJ's I haven't really seen the numbers since USAF Special Tactics unfortunately aren't as well known to the general public...so I figured I'd ask. 

Thanks again for your help.


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## PJ1 (Sep 25, 2008)

Most of the people that graduate from indoc make it all the way through.  Those that don't get in trouble or have problems with the academics.


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## MangOnFire (Sep 25, 2008)

PJ1,

Thanks I appreciate the info!


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