# SOF to Intel



## goon175 (Jan 14, 2011)

One of the reasons I came to this site is because of its vast resources in the intelligence field, As I am planning on going that route (35M/35L). I have read every thread that pertained to what I am planning to do, specifically how a support MOS gets to SOF, How the SF ODA's view there support guys, how the MOS itself is. I am not planning on going back to Regiment as an intel guy, so my research efforts have been focused on how SF support works.

- I am assuming that because of my SOF background, it would not be too much of a stretch of the imagination to assume I could get assigned to a Group right off the bat. Is that a good assumption?

- From reading on here, I have a good understanding of how SF support personnel are used/viewed. Coming from another SOF unit, and the experience that come with that, would I be viewed/used differently in my new support role? If so, how?

Thanks in advance, any and all advice is welcome.


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## Brill (Jan 15, 2011)

I have to ask: why 35M/35L?  What is it about those two MOS'es that intrigue you?


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## goon175 (Jan 15, 2011)

Well, I have done the TSE bit on two deployments, focusing mostly on the SIGINT portion of the job, and I did enjoy it. I just don't think I could see myself doing SIGINT for a career. As for the other linguist jobs, I don't mind learning another language, I've dabbled with Arabic and Pashtu in the past, but again I don't see myself doing that for a career. I don't mind learning a foreign language to use as a tool, but not strictly as my sole job. I have worked with 35M's in the past, I admire there work, and have seen the direct impact they have on the target set. It also translates well for getting work outside of the military (according to my research atleast). The 35L job interests me, I have never worked with one before, but based on my research it couples well with what a 35M does. The 35L job also, from what I've read, translates very well to civilian employment. I think overall, I know I would still be having a direct impact on mission success doing one of those two MOS's, and that's what I want. Taking a support job was the compromise I made with my wife for staying in the Army, which is why I did not stay in Regiment, and am not going to SFAS or any other selection. It will be a wierd transition for me, and alot of my peers question my logic, but for me, as long as I am still having an impact on the continued fight in the GWOT, I will be happy. It seems to me, 35M/35L offer the most in that direction.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 15, 2011)

What rank are you?  Generally speaking, the higher in rank you are the fewer slots there are on the MTOE.

If you meet the MOS and grade requirements, there should be nothing stopping you from landing a job at Group.  Despite the best efforts of many, there is still no screening process so all you would most likely have to do is call your branch manager and request assignment.  Good luck.


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## goon175 (Jan 15, 2011)

I am currently a SSG. I definately will be making the necessary phone calls to branch, etc. I'm just hoping it won't come down to "Well, we have spots at 10th group and 4th ID, but 4th ID is deploying and needs a (insert MOS) SSG, so you are going there"


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## Marauder06 (Jan 16, 2011)

Unfortunately, that's exactly the way it works.  10th Group or 10th Mountain, makes no difference to Branch because they're both equal in terms of assignment priorities.  The good news is, SF is so big now and your MOS and pay grade are in such demand that it's likely they can fit you in somewhere.  I cannot emphasize the importance of maintaining contact with your branch manager before your post-reclass orders come out.  You might luck out and have a branch manager with experience in an SF unit.  I remember a time when the 98G and 98C branch managers were both ex-5th Group.


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## Crusader74 (Jan 16, 2011)

Branch managers?


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## Marauder06 (Jan 16, 2011)

Some other services call them "detailers," they're the ones that manage assignments at the Department of the Army level.


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## Crusader74 (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks Mara.


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## goon175 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok roger, thanks for the help. I wish prior experience played into it more, but it is what it is. Hopefully things work out in my favor!


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## Marauder06 (Jan 16, 2011)

You can definitely use your prior SOF experience to your advantage, but it will only come into play when you get your branch manager on the line.  SF has ceded responsibility for recruiting enablers to their respective branch managers, who only see MOS/grade/billet.

Until and unless SF gets serious about the enabler side of the house, you're going to continue to have a huge disparity in relative effectiveness between the operators and the enablers.  Elite operator vs. "needs of the Army" enabler.  Hm... no wonder so many of the "good" enablers end up jumping ship and moving on to other SOF units.


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## Brill (Jan 16, 2011)

goon175 said:


> Well, I have done the TSE bit on two deployments,* focusing mostly on the SIGINT portion of the job, and I did enjoy it. *I just don't think I could see myself doing SIGINT for a career. As for the other linguist jobs, I don't mind learning another language, I've dabbled with Arabic and Pashtu in the past, but again I don't see myself doing that for a career. *I don't mind learning a foreign language to use as a tool, but not strictly as my sole job.* I have worked with 35M's in the past, I admire there work, and have seen the direct impact they have on the target set. It also translates well for getting work outside of the military (according to my research atleast). The 35L job interests me, I have never worked with one before, but based on my research it couples well with what a 35M does. The 35L job also, from what I've read, translates very well to civilian employment. I think overall, I know *I would still be having a direct impact on mission success* doing one of those two MOS's, and that's what I want. Taking a support job was the compromise I made with my wife for staying in the Army, which is why I did not stay in Regiment, and am not going to SFAS or any other selection. It will be a wierd transition for me, and alot of my peers question my logic, but for me, *as long as I am still having an impact on the continued fight in the GWOT, I will be happy.* It seems to me, 35M/35L offer the most in that direction.



Man, you have SOT-A flowing in your veins.  Pretty good payback givin' Momma a year in Cali while you hit the books with her AT HOME every night, followed by a couple of months in Texas before you arrive at Group.

 I can tell you there was a heck of alot more going on behind the scenes to provide you & your brothers with targets.  One of the best exchanges I had was during a briefing with one of your BN leaders in '08: I was going into detail why the target was important, the effects of kill/capture, blah, blah, blah and one of the guys said "Dude, I don't really care about that, just give me a 10 digit and we'll do the rest." Easy enough!


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## goon175 (Jan 18, 2011)

> "Dude, I don't really care about that, just give me a 10 digit and we'll do the rest."



And that is why I loved being a Ranger. I think most will agree, DA is the sexiest part of being in any special operations unit.

I would really like to thank you guys for the input on this. I have had very limited exposure to SOT-A's in the past, only worked with them a handful of occasions, and honestly never looked into it. After researching it the past few days, I think you are probably right, that would be a good route for me to go. I see that they primarily use 35N/P for them, I would probably look into doing 35P. Lindy, if it's cool with you I'm gonna hit you up with a PM asking some more specifics, this has really piqued my interest.


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## Brill (Jan 19, 2011)

goon175 said:


> Lindy, if it's cool with you I'm gonna hit you up with a PM asking some more specifics, this has really piqued my interest.



Don't ask, just do it.


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## roadtrippin (Sep 23, 2011)

Apologies to bumping an old thread, but seems like the OP was in the same situation as I am in right now.

goon175, is there any update on your progress? If it still matters, I got a hold of branch and they told me they could cut orders to wherever I volunteered for (as long as my foreign language is relevant to the area).


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2011)

I am still planning on re-classing to 35P and volunteering for a SOT-A, hopefully at Carson. My re-enlistment window doesn't open up until April, so as of right now I am waiting until it is close enough to take the DLAB and get the process going. Glad to hear that it sounds like branch is easy to get along with as far as assignments go. Out of curiosity, what MOS are you switching from?


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## roadtrippin (Sep 23, 2011)

From the emails I'm receiving, they are greatly undermanned right now. I am re-classing from 11B. Same here, if all goes well, I'll also volunteer for SOT-A.


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2011)

well hell, if you make it to DLI before I do, let me know how it is.


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## Brill (Sep 23, 2011)

roadtrippin said:


> From the emails I'm receiving, *they are greatly undermanned right now*. I am re-classing from 11B. Same here, if all goes well, I'll also volunteer for SOT-A.



Why do you think that is?  Why would ANYONE want to put themselves in a situation where they have to be twice as proficient in order to be considered only half as good?  :-"

In my opinion, having worked within the community since '89, it's hard to find a guy who 1) wants to do intel work *and* 2) is a PT stud.  Why be outside in the elements, tired and hungry, when you could be in a nice office with A/C and a dough nut on your desk?  If you can hang with the Team guys, why not go to SFAS, the Q, and get the long tab?

Oh and then mention the retention problem: experience + clearance + foreign language skills = decent money on the outside (although the civilian leadership leaves a lot to be desired!  They don't like f-bombs in the office.)

One doesn't simply volunteer to join a SOT-A: you have to go through the pipeline (score well on the DLAB, get a favorable SSBI, do well at DLI & GAFB, then volunteer).  There are folks at DLI looking for PT studs and good mature soldiers ("...my courtesy towards superior officers, my neatness of dress, and care of equipment shall set the example...") that can make things happen when they find the right guys.

Check out mispace.army.mil and there's a PPT on MI SOF recruiting and there are POCs in the briefing.  Also be aware that SOT-As are a very small community: only 12 per BN.  Word gets around who the shitbags are.

Don't get me wrong: I really enjoy the work and love the people!  I also get a kick out of the combat power of all that crap in my ruck.  "Hey, did you bring the cord for..."


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## roadtrippin (Sep 23, 2011)

If I wouldn't reclass, I would be involuntarily reclassed to the MOS in the near future, so I just decided to volunteer for it right now and jump ahead of the others, in terms of promotions and such. Main reason for being on that Army hit list, I assume, is because I am receiving pay for a 3/3 on a foreign language.

Now with the "why not go SF?" I was on the process of getting my medicals approved for my SF selection packet, until I found out about reclassing to 35P. I read about it, talked to the intel guys and seemed relevant to my interest. Also noting that I would not have to extend/reenlist to reclass, as apposed to going SF route.

And I'll be sure to bust balls when I go down to GAFB, just like that my young, motivated self when going through RIP. Quite excited to go to AIT, oddly. If that's not enough to get accepted to SOT-A, so be it. Hell, if I enjoy the job, I'll re-enlist and apply then or what not.

Hope this answers to some of your questions.

Also, that site mispace.army.mil . Seems like it does not exist according to my browser. Is there an alternative? Would really like to check it out.


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2011)

> I would be involuntarily reclassed to the MOS in the near future



I don't think you have to worry about involuntarily being re-classed in Regiment if you are in good standing, otherwise why would they have the RLP? Also, they are hurting on manpower, so that just doesn't make sense to me.


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## Brill (Sep 24, 2011)

roadtrippin said:


> If I wouldn't reclass, I would be involuntarily reclassed to the MOS in the near future...



Explain because I'm intrigued that the Army would direct you to another MOS that has strict requirements. Are you a native speaker?

Also keep in mind that the language is only half of the MOS (At GAFB, we dropped guys who were very good linguists but couldn't make the transition to CRYPTOLOGIC linguist. 35P and 35N are ALMOST interchangeable: the best Papas are soldiers who have had the November classes at the Fort.  I was lucky way back when: I SUCKED at DLI and had to go to mando study hall and barely met the standards of 2/2.  I got to GAFB and the shit just clicked!  I found I could actually visualize the scenarios and the stuff just made sense to me.  Left there near the top of my class.  Seems like there are two camps to MI linguists: some some the language and culture whereas others love the cryptologic work.

Here's the full URL: https://mispace.army.mil

That link will take you to the Army Professional Forums homepage and just log in using your CAC or AKO username & pword. After you log in you'll be taken to the MIspace homepage. On the left column, look for SOF.

Best of luck!


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Sep 24, 2011)

lindy said:


> Explain because I'm intrigued that the Army would direct you to another MOS that has strict requirements. Are you a native speaker?
> 
> Also keep in mind that the language is only half of the MOS (At GAFB, we dropped guys who were very good linguists but couldn't make the transition to CRYPTOLOGIC linguist. 35P and 35N are ALMOST interchangeable: the best Papas are soldiers who have had the November classes at the Fort. I was lucky way back when: I SUCKED at DLI and had to go to mando study hall and barely met the standards of 2/2. I got to GAFB and the shit just clicked! I found I could actually visualize the scenarios and the stuff just made sense to me. Left there near the top of my class. Seems like there are two camps to MI linguists: some some the language and culture whereas others love the cryptologic work.
> 
> ...



IMHO the school at Goodbuddy is a waste of time in regards to SOT-A duty. It was simply another check in the box that had to be completed before moving onto a team and actually learning what the job is about. I hear good things about the SOT-A school that has started up. Let's just hope that it grows and moves into a final screening process for those soldiers wishing to come over.

Just to clarify, I have heard good things about the 35N course. It was the 35P school I was speaking of.


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## goon175 (Sep 24, 2011)

SOT-A school? Haven't heard of that, any info in the open about this?


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## Brill (Sep 24, 2011)

MilkTruckCoPilot said:


> IMHO the school at Goodbuddy is a waste of time in regards to SOT-A duty. It was simply another check in the box that had to be completed before moving onto a team and actually learning what the job is about. I hear good things about the SOT-A school that has started up. Let's just hope that it grows and moves into a final screening process for those soldiers wishing to come over.



I'm split over the effectiveness of GAFB: for a SOT-A (a duty position, work role, ect, which needs an SQI) it's not applicable but for a strategic 35P (a MOS), it's the meat and potatoes.  Having said that, without the GAFB background, a SOT-A is really just a LRS team...but with a bunch of batteries and other crap.

I also think there's something to be said for understanding the role all the other players are and being able to understand how to navigate through the intel community to get the info you or the ODA needs to be effective or keep 'em safe.  Plus GAFB begins the transformation of being just a 09L into a 35P, in my opinion.  I think (hope) we see a shift back to the being independent SOT-As as we slowly start to kick the damn terps out of our trucks.


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## BravoOne (Sep 25, 2011)

I know youre leaning towards the PaPa but I just wanted to mention that a LOT of good assignments for 35L are for SSG (since 35L is entry level AT E-5). Thats a pretty good place to be for a 35L. You know what youre doing by then, get good work and dont have to supervise a bunch of other 35L/M or wind up working as a 1SG. Honestly, youre in a position that a good bit of adventure minded 35L would like to be in but cant. You have EXPERIENCE at a special operations unit, are already airborne qualified. Hell... once you get towards the end of your time at Huachuca the Ranger recruiter will come a knocking (as will others). What used to happen is they'd show up and make the speech, take note to all the guys with stars in their eyes and chat them up. ANYONE who graduated that wanted a shot got one. ABN first then at that time they were sent to RIP. FEW were in the shape necessary to pass but they were definitely looking. Back then they were giving guys from the schoolhouse every opportunity to pass (they needed 97B in the Regiment) so they werent in any rush to rock guys out of the course. In all likelihood you will never be at the mercy of the Branch Manager like others @ the schoolhouse will be. Volunteer and take care of business and that wont even come into play cause the recruiter handles the whole ball of wax. I know guys that didnt even roll with any of the recruiter visits and just had guaranteed Airborne in their contracts and they wound up at GRP. At the time the "worst" (as some said) that could happen to a 97B grad that went ABN was to spend the next couple of years at the 82nd. Theres still a shortage of 35M/L. Airborne qualified with SOF experience even more so. You should see the tours that SOCOM has available for Reservists that meet those requirements.
Id say whatever you decide to do in MI... SOF opportunities will certainly be there. Once you get your adjudicated TS clearance (youll get interim in order to hit the schoolhouse) you will be good to go.


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## roadtrippin (Sep 26, 2011)

goon175, I agree with you on that. What I meant by that quote is if things went down hill for me on my SF pipeline and ultimately end up in the big Army.

lindy, yes, I am a native speaker. Apparently, the Army already involuntarily re-classed some guys. Also, thanks for the advice. I'm interested in 35P for the cryptologic part of it rather than the linguist aspect of it.

BravoOne, thanks for that info. The 35Ms I've talked to kept talking about becoming 35Ls. However, it'll be a while for me to become a E-6. And that's assuring that there will be recruiters visiting during AIT. Hopefully, they'll be able to give more info about that job details then.


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## goon175 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey brother, I would really encourage you to continue researching stuff, I don't think you are completely informed on some things that you are basing career decisions on. My personal advice to you would be to finish out your first enlistment as a Ranger, whatever you re-class to after that whether it be SF, MI, etc. will greatly benefit from your experiences as opposed to switching over with what I assume is only one or two deployments under your belt in a SL1 position. Feel free to hit me up in a PM if you have any questions about this, I don't want to completely derail this thread.


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## moobob (Sep 27, 2011)

goon, if I don't get picked up for a commissioning program I'm applying for, I plan on going to Ranger School right away. The ONLY reason is to have some measure of credibility when I have to work with guys I don't know... which is often.

Having to prove yourself over and over again never ends for a support guy. Hell, it never ends for a tabbed guy to some extent. A lot of guys don't understand the concept of "I like my job and don't want to go SF" and the other opportunities available to say, 35M/35L/35P, that are not necessarily available to SF dudes.

So, if you go to Group as an MI guy having previously been a tabbed Regiment guy, it will definitely help you so long as you don't prove to be incompetent in whatever support you are providing. Having the trust of the guys you're working with is often the difference between actually being able to make a difference, or just being another body. I'm fortunate that everyone I work with have good reps with proven performance. That hasn't always been the case, in other units, and everyone suffers when that happens. That, and it's harder to get rid of someone in Group than it is in big army.


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## Brill (Sep 27, 2011)

Sleeve tattoos also help a new guy fit in.


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## moobob (Sep 28, 2011)

lindy said:


> Sleeve tattoos also help a new guy fit in.



A bike also.


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## RangerRowe (Nov 24, 2012)

Please forgive the revival of this thread but I have a few considerations, especially for those that like _goon 1/75 _and _roadtrippin _that have SOF experience. 

1. I have no military experience outside of  Special Operations except for the 2 years I spent in TRADOC beginning my military career. I am absolutely clueless as to what the job requirements for a 35L/35M/35N/or 35P are in the conventional Army. What I can tell you is that the difference between 35L/35M/35N/and 35P are vast in the SOF community, especially SF.

A 35N can be used in 2 capacities, as an analyst on a SOT-B supporting a SOT-A or ODA at an AOB or SOTF, or as a member of a SOT-A (and being a member of a SOT-A was only a recent development). A 35P can only be used, by MTOE, as a member of SOT-A or ACT-T, and to be on the ACT-T you have to be an experienced SOT-A that's at least an E6(P). A 35L or 35M is used primarily as base and building security and as the person who vets your locals. I have seen 35L's and 35M's go outside the wire to do TQ from time to time but that is not often and it was only because the 18F and the 180A already had too much on their plate that day. If a 35N is on the SOT-A then he will go out with them just like every other member of the team. If he's at the SOTF or the AOB as an analyst then it's "enjoy the Green Beans and ogle the Air Force girls" because he isn't going anywhere near Wild West country. Since 35P's are only on a SOT-A they will always be gone and they will always be outside the wire. I have been gone 9 months out of this year and only 5 of those months were deployed, the rest was TDY. You will be TDY all the time.  

I only mention this because I see some of you are making your decisions based on your significant others concerns and if her concern is keeping you out of harm's way then being a 35P at Group *IS NOT THE WAY TO GO*. Last I checked there have been 15 SIGINTers killed in OEF/OIF and only 1 of those was conventional Army. The rest were SOF SI elements (NSW TAC-EW, MARSOC, and SOT-A). That may not seem like a lot but when you consider that there are only 12 of us in an entire BN, and even smaller numbers in NSW and MARSOC, then it becomes a pretty considerable amount.

2. Promotions and retention in the various fields are also vastly different. 35P is one of the few MOS's that still has a *HUGE *reenlistment bonus across all ranks, all units and _almost all _languages. The same cannot be said for 35L or 35M. A few years ago there was a huge push for 35l and 35M and a considerable number of soldiers from other MOS's reclassed, flooding it with E6s and E7s. Making rank as a 35L or 35M is hard, real hard and unless you are lucky enough to get into USASOC you are not getting a reenlistment bonus.  * 
*http://www.armyreenlistment.com/Messages/MILPER/SRB_TIERED_12_294_20120917.pdf3. Because SOT-A's work alongside their ODA brethren so often they are treated differently. As a SOT-A you are still considered support but you are not _"one of those shitbag Support Guys".  _ You go to cool guy schools, get cool guy gear and do cool guy missions but I tell you this with the utmost sincerity, pretend to be an SF guy and you are fucked. Put an SF sticker on your car and you are fucked. Try to be something that you aren't and you are fucked. 

4. When you are at GAFB spend your time working out and staying out of trouble. You will learn nothing of value there that will transfer to a career in SOF. The school is designed for what 35P's do at the RSOC's. GAFB does not care about you going to a SOT-A. There are so few of us that it's not relevant or worth the Army's time to teach anything on the SOF side of the house. It's for this reason that we have been screaming for our own schoolhouse, our own A&S and our own SQI. Any 35P with orders to a Group is essentially wasting 5-6 months of training time because the Army doesn't want to make the right decision. 

5. Getting to Group as a 35P is all about knowledge and relationships and those of you that are on here are already half way there by being on this site. Right now the Branch Manager is an ex SOT-A from 10th SFG. Two of the instructors at GAFB are ex SOT-As (one from 3rd and one from 5th). There are several ex SOT-A's at DLI right now. You have 3 SOT-As on this thread. *THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DUDES TO RECRUIT.* Shit I'm pretty much recruiting tight now. Doing the right thing and reaching out to the right people goes a long way. I can't even remember how many times I have been called asking if I have heard of so-and-so and if I would be willing to vouch for them.

I have yammered on too much.


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## Brill (Nov 25, 2012)

RangerRowe said:


> *THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DUDES TO RECRUIT.*


 
And chicks too once they start attending Ranger School.


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