# Sniper Selection and Assessment



## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

Anyone with insight please comment.

Basically, when I was unqualified, I held a selection process. It was basic 11b tasks. Was NOT anything difficult. What I thought I knew, and what I now know are 2 vastly different things.

A few key points, we are NG, so time and assets are always a constraint. This is my revised plan that myself and a few others have put together. Basically the "others" are not yet qualified, but are awaiting their class start date. After a long AT, I have done the best I could to train them to be operational, and feel that they could currently deploy with success, and also feel they have no worries about passing the Sniper school. So between my own findings, and how they have viewed what they they feel is required, this is what we came up with.

timeline is not exact as actual times will change. My concept is that should a soldier "pass" and we select him. he will be on probation for 6 months while we train him. If he performs and grasps sniper knowledge, then we will do a proper transfer to our unit and fit him to school once we feel he is ready. Our goal is to minimize the retraining of the basics/intermidiate functions of an 11B so that we can focuse on sniper marksmanship/fieldcraft. If the soldier is not able to grasp fundementals, then we can send him back to his unit with minimum paperwork.

Please offer _*useful*_ critsicm



*SNIPER **SELECTION and ASSESSMENT (SSA)*​ 
*Prerequisites: *

Must be 11B/19D

Must have GT 100 or better

Must have NO record of disciplinary actions

Must have qualified EXPERT on M4/M16 Rifle within 12 months/most recent IWQ

Normal color vision

1 Yr retain-ability

Must have a corrected vision of 20/20

250 APFT; total points with at least 70% in each event for their age group

Financial stability



*SNIPER ASSESSMENT AND SELECTION *​ 
*Day 1*

0730L Hrs Arrive at HHC 1-114 IN

0800L Hrs Depart to FT Dix NJ or FT AP Hill Va.

1. Diagnostic APFT with pull-ups*

2. Range Estimation (Range “E”) class

3. Range “E” Practical Exercise (PE-1)

4. Sketches class/ PE-1

5. Tasks/Team Events

6. Bed-down; in patrol base

*DAY 2*

1. Night into Day Land Navigation (0330 wake-up, 0400 start)

2. 25m grouping exercise

3. Range E PE-2

4. Patrol Class

5. 5 Mile run

6. Range E PE-3

7. Sketches PE-2

8. Patrols/ Patrol Base-/Bed-down

*SNIPER ASSESSMENT AND SELECTION *​​*DAY 3*

1. 0400 Wake-up

2. Range E PE-4

3. Tasks/team events

4. Enter and clear a room

5. Obstacle Course

6. Patrols/Patrol Base/Bed-down

*DAY 4*

1. 10 Mile rd march- 35# ruck, 4 qts water, 2 ½ hr limit

2. Interviews**

3. Compile cadre notes/data/score sheets***

4. 1200LHrs Depart Ft Dix or FT AP Hill VA to return to HHC 1-114

*7 Pull-up Minimum- Can be Palm in or out, may change grip as long as Soldier does not touch ground.

** Interviews will be conducted by qualified Snipers

*** Notes and data will be based on individual basis and at Cadre discretion. Score sheets will be go/no go events on tasks trained/evaluated. Receipt of a “GO” does not indicate a guaranteed selection; conversely, a “No Go” does not remove/disqualify a Soldier from selection.

*SNIPER ASSESSMENT AND SELECTION *​​CONCEPT OF OPERATION-

1-114 BN SNIPERS Will conduct Sniper Selection and Assessment process.

Candidates will be graded on individual abilities, strengths and weaknesses.

Candidates will be subject to leadership and individual tasks, evaluated on participation, motivation, performance, and knowledge. 

**MAXIMUM EFFORT IS THE MINIMUM STANDARD**


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## Headshot (Aug 18, 2011)

Anyone using any type of tobacco products might as well quit now.


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## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

Headshot said:


> Anyone using any type of tobacco products might as well quit now.


why do you say that? I used to smoke but quit, but i still dip. obviously we know smoking has many drawbacks, tactically and physically, but you think its the same for dip?


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## Headshot (Aug 18, 2011)

The nicotine in your system will never let you be your absolute best at distance, so it's best to start getting it out of your system now.  It'd be a shame to make it to the final shot and then have a plant fuck it up.  Take control of your bodily system just the same way you expect to take control of the Sniper system.


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## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

i see your point, but ive never had a nicotine "itch" while my heads in the game. I did have to give up coffee though..

Thanks.  Any insight on anything else you would add/do/take away from the rest of the list?


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## Headshot (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't underestimate the value of a very, very, tiny portion of a mil dot when doing range estimation.
Start doing KIM's games now to get your memory trained, Ginko Biloba will help a lot also.
Spend lot's of time in the woods so target detection exercises will be easier.
The rucking and PT should already be a given but not taken for granted, what will make a Sniper is Sniper stuff that others can't do, i.e. being totally aware of your surroundings 100% of the time.
Patience, patience, patience under pressure.
Don't hurry a shot on a stalk, it's better to be sure with 1 minute left than to get busted with 45 minutes left.
Never move directly toward your target.
Cammo the shit out of your ghille suit, and don't shortcut when you build it, a piece of jute laying on the ground could be your undoing in the real world.
While it is summer, practice range estimation on pavement while there is still a heavy mirage, this will put you back in the saddle the next day while others are heading back to their units.
Use desert tan boots and absolutely no black heels.  I've busted more people on their boot heels from 600m than you would believe.  Keep your heels DOWN!
Go ahead and get used to shooting with an elevated heart rate so you can learn to get it under control.  A .22 is sufficient for now.


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## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

Im not asking about how school is gonna go, im good, I am qualified, its the rest of my current section that is not. they are trained and reserved in school, just awaiting the start date.

this list is how we are going to evaluate the NEXT generation of wanna-be's :)

**edit** unless you wanna get me a spot in SFSC, and then im all ears ;)


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## Headshot (Aug 18, 2011)

In that case, I would take all qualified shooters on a 6 miler with gear and rifles and march them straight to the range and immediately put them on the line and see who can still shoot.  You've just weeded out 1/2 of those that might otherwise waste your time.


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## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

I see where your headed, but i think your not following my path.

1-E6, 2E5, 3E-4's are now in my section. Of those, I am the only B4.

1 E5, and 3 E4 are going to school shortly, and have been informally trained for 1 yr now.

I will be moving on to a different position in the near future, opening my E6 spot.

One E5 will move up to take mine pos, 1 E4 will take an E5 spot.

This leave the section with 5 open spots for someone to come into the Sniper section.

This selection and assessment, as described above, will be to find out who has the possibility to have one of those OPEN 5 spots. Is there anything not on that list that you would add to help determine who has what it takes and deserves to become a sniper? Or, anything on that list that should not be?

FYI,my final evaluation was a Final Shot of sorts for my current guys,- 500M team stalk with gear, to ORP, move to FFP, all undetected. FRAGO as to target and situation. ID, report, request to engage, and engage priority target (UKD,dicriminate target, off angle Ivan silhoutte), 2 rounds, and exfil. All teams passed, but all teams also needed a 2nd round since target was angled from their POV and they over estimated range. I have no doubts they can do the job, let alone pass the school. They just need to do it again, and again..ect..

**edit**  or did you just mean, take all expert M4 guys to a range and see if they can still shoot?


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## Headshot (Aug 18, 2011)

I guess I'm not tracking what you want to know then.  Either they can do all they need to do to be a Sniper or they can't, pass/fail.  I would see who can pass everything you have laid out and then see who has the personality and attitude to properly employ their skills.  Stress is the best way to weed people out IMO, especially when their shot might change the course of battle at some point.  If you are looking to fill slots, then pick the best shot.  If you are wanting to replace/employ Snipers then I would hold them to the highest standard without margin.  Except nothing but the absolute best at all you have planned and go from there.  If they show up late by even one minute for anything then let them go because it shows a lack of respect for the job on their part.  Your outline looks fine as far as an outline, but you and I know there is more to it than that, they have to want it more than the title.


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## LM (Aug 18, 2011)

yea, your 3rd sentance sums it all up. these guys are gonna be 11B from throughout the BN, some may have AD time or been NG their whole career., may or may not have been deployed. I agree 100% with everything after that you have said.

It basically is just an outline at this point. What I noticed from my first selection is that i did not test the candidates enough. Ive actually dropped 3 soldiers in the past year that i thought would be good.

1st was a SGT that showed no motivation beyond minimum effort and prone to physical injury, or at least claim to be. 1 SPC that PT dropped while in the section (70% gets you in, APFT conducted quarterly, and must perform 80% or better to stay in the section)

and the last PFC, was late 2 times and AWOL once, but that was only because I couldnt get him back out of the section before he could fuck up more.  So im trying not make those same mistakes in selection again.

Basically your last post sums up my overall view of the section and how its currently ran.  I just wanted to ask if anyone had any other ideas about what to look for in prospects. Thanks


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## gits (Aug 19, 2011)

You should look at incorporating a peer evaluation system to better ID the guys you don't want.


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

ive thought about doing that for the 6 month probation in the section part of it. or did you mean during these 4 days, or both?

  how does that go? ive never been to a school that does it?


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## Marauder06 (Aug 19, 2011)

Peer eval is a great tool to help assess the "whole person" and to get a feel for what a guy is like when he thinks he's operating in the absence of consequences (i.e. when the cadre isn't working).  I've been through a couple of programs that have them, they can sometimes be eye-opening for both the cadre and the individual.

You could have a peer eval at the end of your four-day selection, and then at the halfway point and the conclusion of the probation period.  I think that would definitely help you assess how a guy would fit into your team.


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

Sounds like a plan. I think I will do that.  Whats the format/questions on a peer eval?


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## Marauder06 (Aug 19, 2011)

I think it's best to craft your own based on what you're looking for in a sniper. Since I'm not familiar with what it takes to make a good sniper, I can't help you there. But I recommend you keep it to a few questions, make them rank-order everyone in the process (including themselves) and leave a block for them to hand-write anything they want to add. This last part is particularly good because it tells you a bit about both the writer of the eval _and_ the person/people he is talking about.

I think something important in a peer eval, especially in small-groups, is that you have to make sure it's part of the overall process and doesn't make or break a candidate on its own. If you have four aspiring snipers, and they're all studs, someone still has to be last in the rank -ordering. That doesn't mean you should send him packing. At the same time, if you have someone who has been to Ranger School, say, and knows how to "game" peer evals, you could have a situation where everyone has pretty much the same rating (I rate you 1, you rate me 2, he rates me, I rate him 4, and in the end everyone comes out "center of mass") but you KNOW that one of your guys is a shitbag. Very useful tool if done correctly.


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

can you give me an example though?  what do you mean part of the over-all process? i think you mean, not the end-all, be-all final say. thats what the interviews are really for. Thats where myself, the Co, and any other B4's are sitting at the end of the Rd march and talk to them, and that holds the most weight.  But i would like to see how the rest of the candidates view the rest, to see who really thinks what, who says what, and how that differed from what we saw.

But again, got any example questions? and how its actually formated on paper? like is it just question 1-6, and a rating system?


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## AWP (Aug 19, 2011)

A few samples, admittedly for the civilian world, but it may help you think of sniper- or military-specifc tasks to add:

https://courses.worldcampus.psu.edu/public/faculty/PeerEvalForm.html

http://www.uky.edu/SocialWork/crp/files/Samplepeerevaluationform.pdf


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks, much appreciated


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## gits (Aug 19, 2011)

The Peer system in the Q was that you had to give 2 positive (Blue Slips) and 2 negative (Pink Slips) peers. Obviously the amount of peers may be dependent on how many students/try outs you have. At least what I remember it was, Who would you want to deploy with and the other one would be Who would you not want to deploy with and why. Obviously if you do continual peers and evaluating in their probationary period like once every month and when the end comes up obviously you will see where the pink cards and rankings stack up.


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

I knew this place was good for something ;)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 19, 2011)

At first glance I think it’s a little vague, almost to the point where I am a bit lost on if this is a section leader saying "this is what I say you have to do to be here" or if it is a command driven program. I have a few questions and I will base my advice on the response to them.

1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?

2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?

3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?

4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?

5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?

6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?

7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?

8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?

9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?

10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?


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## LM (Aug 19, 2011)

Its vague only because timeline and "tasks/team events" are not described/finalized.

response is in *BOLD*

1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?

*ASSES JUNIOR ENLISTED PROFICIENCY TO HELP IDENTIFY WHO IS ALREADY UP-TO-PAR ON INFATRY TASKS, AND WHO IS MOST LIKELY CAPABLE OF LEARNING AND USING SNIPER OREINTED TASKS*

2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?

*BASICALLY ABOVE- I WANT TO MITIGATE THE NEED TO WASTE TIME ON GOIN BACK OVER BASIC 11B FUNCTIONS SO THAT OUR TIME CAN BE FOCUSED ON MORE ADVANCED TACTICS, INFANTRY OR SNIPER*

3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?

*ITS AN ASSESSMENT, IF THEY QUIT THEY ARE DROPPED, OTHER THAN THAT, THEY WILL GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE 4 DAYS, AND THEN BE EVALUATED ON HOW THEY PERFORMED, IF THEY STILL WANT TO COMMIT.  MY CURRENT GROUP GETS TOGETHER WEEKLY TO TRAIN ON DIFFERENT THINGS SO THAT WHEN DRILL COMES, WE CAN FOCUS ON SNIPER TASKS, AND INTEGRATE INTO THE SCOUT PLT*

4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?

*AS OF RIGHT NOW, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL BE THE CADRE- WHO GETS TO INTERVIEW AND HAVE A "SAY" WILL ONLY BE B4 QUALIFIED IN MY SECTION- AS OF NOW, THATS ONLY ME, BY THE TIME THIS GOES DOWN, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND HAD THEIR CHANCE, IF THEY PASS, THEY GET TO HAVE  VOICE, IF THEY DONT, THEY DONT. BUT THEY SHOULD ALL PASS IT W/O ISSUE.  THE HIGHEST RANK ENLISTED IS MYSELF (SSG) AND THEN OUR CO (CPT).  ITS HIS CALL, BUT HE DEFERS TO MY OPINION, AND HASNT NOT BACKED ME YET, AND WITH OUTSTANDING RESULTS.  CAN IT BE OVERRULED? NO, NOT IN ANYWAY THAT I CAN FORSEE, MY ENTIRE BN CoC IS AWARE OF THIS SITUATION AND LETS ME DO THINGS THE WAY I THINK, AND KNOW, THEY SHOULD BE DONE.*

5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?
*4 DAYS IS WITH THE EXPANSION. *

6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?
*I HAVE BN ASSTES AT MY DISPOSAL, IVE BEEN GIVEN THE LIBERTY TO CHOOSE WHAT BASE AND EQUIPMENT I NEED TO DO THIS.  I REALLY LIKE FT AP HILL, ITS AN AMAZING TRAINING LOCATION THAT CAN SUPPORT MUCH MORE ADVANCED UNITS THAN US, BUT THAT ADDS TO TRAVEL TIME AND THEN ANY GEAR ISSUES THAT ARE SURE TO ARISE AS ITS 5 HRS AWAY. SO I BELIEVE ILL BE DOING THIS AT FT DIX, WHICH IS CLOSE, AND CAN GET THE JOB DONE, ALTHOUGH TERRAIN IS NOT AS HARSH AS I WOULD LIKE.*
7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?

*AGAIN, EVERYTHING I WANT I CAN DO, BUT FOR THIS, THE ONLY LIVE AMMO WILL BE THE 5.56 FOR THE SHOOT-IN, SAME QUALIFICATION AS THE ARNG SNIPER SCHOOL, AFTER THAT, WE HAVE , 5.56 BLANK, ARTY SIMS AND SMOKE LOCKED ON ALREADY*

8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?

*THIS IS OUTSIDE THE SELECTION PART I GUESS, BUT I CAN ANSWER ANYWAY. AS OF NOW ITS 3 2-MAN TEAMS, BECAUSE THATS HOW MANY PEOPLE I CURRENTLY HAVE AND WEAPONS TO SUPPORT. WITHIN THOSE TEAMS, I ORIGINALLY PLACED 1 NCO WITH AN E4. SOME DIDNT JIVE TOGETHER, SO WE SWITCHED IT UP. ALL TEAMS ARE NOW WORKING WELL TOGETHER AND PROGRESSING NICELY, FASTER THAN I ANTICPATED. IM NOT MAKING A "STANDARD" ON WHO IS ON GLASS AND WHO IS FIRING, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO DO THE JOB WHEN IM NOT AROUND, SO ITS ON THEM TO DECIDE WHO IS BETTER AT WHAT.*

9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?
*TYPICALLY YES, YOU AND I TALKED ALREADY ABOUT MY SITUATION, GROUND-UP, I WAS FIRST TO GO AND THE SECTION WAS ONLY HERE IN NAME. IT TOOK ME 18 MONTHS TO GET THERE, BUT NOW ALL MY GUYS ARE RESERVED AND GOING IN THE TEAMS IN WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TRAINING.  AS FOR THE NEW GUYS, I CANNOT GUARANTEE ANYTHING WITH FUNDING THE WAY IT IS NOW, BUT I CAN GUARANTEE THEY WILL BE INFORMALLY TRAINED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS MAKING THE SCHOOL MERELY A FORMALITY, AND FULLY CAPABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY DEPLOY IF I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO SO.*
10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?
*EVERYTHING. WE HAVE A NEW CoC THAT CAME IN AND IS GETTING RID OF THE GOOD-OLE-BOY SYSTEM AND MOVING PIECES AROUND. STANDARDS ARE BEING EMPLACED AND SOLDIERS ARE BEING HELD TO THEM. WE ARE BREAKING THE HABIT OF GUYS COMING TO DRILLS AND DOING B.S.  THEY WILL HAVE MORE CHANCES AT BETTER SCHOOLS YES, BUT BEYOND THAT, THEY WILL GET TO TRAIN AND WORK WITH GUYS THAT ARE SERIOUS ABOUT DOING THEIR JOB. THAT IN ITSELF IS ITS OWN REWARD, AND THAT IN TURN PUTS THEM HIGHER ON THE MERIT LIST FOR THE SCHOOLS. IE, I HAVE THE OK FOR ANY SCHOOL I WANT, LEADERSHIP WANTS ME TO DO RANGER, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF SAPPER. 2 OF MY E4'S GOT THE OK FOR RANGER ONCE DONE WITH SNIPER, ARSLC IS HIGH ON PRIORITY LIST AS WELL. A LOT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS AND IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE BDE, I GOT TO SHOW THAT MY GUYS ARE SETTING THE STANDARD.*

does that answer your questions?  I know it sounds flaky and high-and-mighty, but thats really whats goin on over here.


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## TLDR20 (Aug 20, 2011)

Are these guys going to qualify? Or at least group? Maybe a shoot in with an  M4 on the first day as soon as the APFT is over, or prior to the APFT would be good.


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## LM (Aug 20, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Are these guys going to qualify? Or at least group? Maybe a shoot in with an M4 on the first day as soon as the APFT is over, or prior to the APFT would be good.


the shooting portion will be the exact same as the NG sniper school test, which is 3 , 5 round groups with an M4, 4cm circle group. but a pre-req is must already be expert qualified prior to coming.

as a former marine PMI,as well as a sniper, if an otherwise stellar soldier comes, and only has a bit of trouble in marksmanship, i can spend some time to help them out, but not being able to shoot-for-shit, is a definate no-go


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## Headshot (Aug 20, 2011)

If they can't hit a moving pop-up at 750, I wouldn't give them the time of day. Or is this just some good shooters who get to use the name Sniper, like people who don't serve in a battalion use the name Ranger because they went to a school for a few weeks?


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## LM (Aug 20, 2011)

could you, or I hit a mover at 750 without being trained on it? This is to help identify who is ready to under go that specific type of training, if they cant shoot, they cant shoot, but all any of us have to go on right now is the fundamentals to get to the next level. with  the info at hand, would you add something like that to the assessment process?


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## Headshot (Aug 20, 2011)

From an assessment aspect, I certainly wouldn't consider anyone who couldn't do a 3 mile run and then hit the 300m target with an M16.  Yes, I would take them to the range and see who can hit it (750), or even come close since you at least need to be on paper to be trainable.


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## LM (Aug 20, 2011)

I dont have the assets to have them run the 3 miler and then shoot @ 300m, however a cadre led short sprint of about a 1/2 mile will be before the 25m grouping excercise. So in all, it will have the same effect, yet ill be able to see the exact groups in which they can hold. This will be done on iron sights  btw, so "zero'd" is not the goal. as long as they hold a group on the paper, we can see.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 20, 2011)

If you have the CoC on your side and have the abilities, manpower and resources to run an SSA I think it will do wonders for your section. The only concern I would have is getting a commitment from a Btn CSM to ensure the process stays. Company commanders and 1SG’s are ever changing, and you never know what the next leadership will think. Getting the CSM to support your efforts and draft policy requiring all section personnel to attend the SSA and requiring them to be on a 6 month probation would ensure that the system you are building remains in place. The reason I say the CSM is due to most of the policies emplaced by a CSM (even a past or former CSM) stay in place. Where some times new CDR’s will do away with old policy and reinvent the wheel.

As for your outline, I would recommend you compile an exact skill level ability, rules and policy to govern the SSA. The reason for this is so that you have an ability to say “this was the rules, you were counseled on them and you broke them and that is why you are out” vs giving someone the boot and that person going up the CoC feeling they have an argument. If you don’t have that emplaced for not only the SSA but also the probation period, I can see you or the next section leader taking some heat. I can also see a SSA program being dropped if an IG or congressional gets filed. It would be hard for a CoC to explain why Pvt Snuff got booted from his sniper position b/c he did not meet the requirements of a program that is not common practice across the Army. So the more professional it is, the more ability you have to keep it around and spread it out to other units.

Also with the idea that the SSA is not a “training” program and purely a selection process, I would not focus so much on Sniper skill sets or even Infantry skill sets, but I would focus on stress, confusion and flexibility. Look to evaluate their ability to perform duties on their own, to remain disciplined even when those duties are boring and otherwise unexciting. Looking more to evaluate their ability to stay focused during times where their mind wants to wonder and sleep is starting to kick in. However, I personally believe you would have more success and better results if you shifted from a focus of only assessing and selecting, by adding training and the probation as part of the actual SSA.



> Example
> 
> HHC 1-114 INFANTRY​
> SNIPER ASESSMENT, SELECTION & TRAINING PROGRAM (SAST)​
> ...


 
This is just a general format for basic description, again developing a policy, standards of conduct and performance, a macro/micro schedule and program of instruction would be in your best interest IMO. I am not saying you have to use this, pick from it what you want and I’ll help you with what I can. The key is to make it as professional as possible and to adjust the program to fit the needs of the unit and meet the commander’s intent, while getting what you want out of it. When you brief the command, or request support either through policy memos, or through actual service and support, it’s better to have a bullet proof program packet to hand them (you can always summaries during a brief or meeting, but have the information available).


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## LM (Aug 20, 2011)

the entire Brigade is behind me, along with all the CSM's, as our OPS CSM is an SF/Sotic qualifed and fully endorses what I have planned.  The thing is, pvt snuffy or anyone cant really argue this through anyone, they either meet requirements or fail to, backed by counselings.  The things is, to be in a Sniper section, you have to have above all, the Co's reccomendation, that alone, although heavily biased with my (section leaders) opinion, is enough to keep or kick anyone out of the section.

as for the selection part, time hacks are going to be critical, every event will be doable if maximum effort is put forth. skill level? they need to be at least level 2, or have the aptitude to be so. think about it, its national guard, time is our biggest constraint. there is no time to spend re-teaching level 1 stuff.  Patrols, radios, OPORDS, MEDEVAC,reaction drills, all needs to be down firm or else we have to spend time on that. basically, my YTC reflects 6 months of sniper specific training,4 months of integrated training, and then AT, and 1 december/holiday drill.  we need to maximize that time, with minimal time going over urban patrolling tactics to integrate back into scouts who do it every drill.

 i dont "need" these spots filled, i was only  heavily urged to hold another slection. whether any fit is another story. the only training, that will take place is  patrols, to ensure everyone is fresh, and then Range E and sketchs as those are short classes, easy to identify progress, but critical to abilities for any sniper.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Good luck!:cool:


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## reed11b (Nov 28, 2011)

My section was recently supposed to do a similar selection process since the majority of our B4 guys ETSing and the remainder of us who will be deploying in a year are either non-qualed walk ons or non-deployed B4's. I like your program outline, but I have a few questions, and some suggestions. 

Questions; One) How are you managing to do a 4 day selection? Are you doing it as part of AT? Two) Does the unit coding actually allow 19D to fill the slots w/o going to 11B MOSQ? 

The suggestions are mostly on ways to cut down the selection. Part of the reason for this is to allow it to be done on a standard MUTA 5 and to increase your pool of applicants, because I think your expectations from the recruiting pool of one NG mechanized brigade may be a touch unrealistic. I think the APFT (or doing an RPFT) would cut down on the need for the obstacle course (I like the chin-ups/pull ups requirement, since it is a better test of functional upper body strength then the push-up). The range estimation and field sketches are skills mostly learned in section, so why make them part of selection? The patrol test and room clearing portion could be covered by requiring 2-3 years on the line as a pre-requisite and doing a written infantry skills test. Just my $0.02.
Reed

P.S. I will be sharing your outline with my section sergeant to give him ideas.


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## LM (Nov 28, 2011)

no problem, ive been revising it for a while.

4 day is because we can take drill dates off the end of the year.  Its originally a Muta 5, so we just add days from say sept that would be regular m4 qual or something
I dont deal with 19D as we are light infantry,so its not an issue ive encountered
we are not mechanized so the whole BN is our pool.  I dont expect that many to show up once they see the actual pre-req's.  the first year i had about 20. 10 of those could barely meet army standards in general. As the section came together and people saw who was doing it, and what we were doing.  By that i mean just actually training, it motivated a lot of guys. friends of friends from the other companies i did pool from are constantly askign when the nest try-out will be, so im hoping its a good one.  The list is not just to fill my vacancies, but establish a list should anyone want to move out and the spot can be filled.
APFT is first so that we can confirm its real and not pencil whipped and to standard, also wanna guage how much effort they put forth to score in top % or save energy for later in the training
obstacle course because an APFT is 17 minutes at most, and does not display real athleticism
range E and sketches are classes that will be taught yes, but i want to know if they can grasp it. if 5 of them can, and others cant, well, those 5 have an advantage in that area.
patrolling and room clearing is also going to have a refresher course.  sniper is an advanced skill. I dont have time to reteach basics.  I found out the hardway, that 1 pvt with 3 months in, was just as shitty as a SPC with almost 3 years, or vice versa.. its not about a 1 time test, its about guaging the ability to grasp the new concepts.  more imprtantly, i want guys that can think AND listen.

but im all ears if you have any other suggestions or questions.

BTW, your situation sounds very similar to another BN here...i wonder if your part of our sister Bn..


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## Etype (Dec 6, 2011)

Not to knock anyone, but a general knock to the sniper training world in general- range estimation is lame, it's really only relevant to calling for fire. If I am shooting at a target, I am looking at it through a scope. It takes me 2 seconds to take a shot within 600m (using the 10 or 12 inch drill), and maybe 10 total to make a deliberate shot out to the max effective range of whatever system I am using. The only time estimating range is ever in question is for a head shot with my 100mZ, you can hit a 9" target off of a 100m zero out to 220m. You can work up a similar equation for torso hits, but it's just as fast to mil him from shoulders to head and subtract from 10(12" drill).

So, realistically, the only time I see range E as being a factor is when I see someone's head only. Then it's simply a yes or no question as to whether or not it's within 220m- if yes, the call is center, if no, it's a deliberate engagement on the computer or data book.

I'm done, carry on with the constructive conversation that I rudely interrupted.


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## reed11b (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry LM, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what kind of sniper section you are in and how large your recruitment pool is. So, even though the NJNG page still lists your Battalion as mechanized, I did find that they had been converted to light infantry in '08 as was your "sister" battalion. Now in an ICBT snipers are in the RSTA. In a HBCT the sniper section is in the HHC of the infantry battalion. So you have a sniper section that is a battalion, not a brigade asset? Your sister battalion in the same brigade also has snipers? Does the 50th BCT have a RSTA? Do you have battalion scout platoons that you are also competing with for good personel?


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## LM (Dec 6, 2011)

Etype- start a new thread, i want to have this discussion with you, just not in here

reed11b. get verified first. the info isnt hard to find, but im not giving anything else out, especially in here


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## reed11b (Dec 9, 2011)

PM sent


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## S0AP (Feb 24, 2012)

I think it definitely has merit for someone that has informal training and you are really trying to limit the amount vying for a spot on team.  Some people on here think that shooting skills with an M4 are needed to get a slot.  For me personally I only qualified expert once before attending school but have since missed no more than one shot on any quality.  I think it is ideal to have them utilize skills which truly limit the amount of candidates. I.e. range estimation and unknown distance fire.  The pt can knock people out but should not be your driving factor as much is dropped from school anyways.  If pt is involved I found it ideal to make it functional to a mission such as an extended mission Ruck with full combat gear....either way good luck with this


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## cybersniper (Mar 19, 2012)

I have never used the peer system but looks very interesting. How do you avoid the sniper students to rate ALL their comrades "over" their true performance due to empathy instead of performace alone?
Do you just take it and average?
Very interesting method.
Thanks
ed


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## Etype (Mar 19, 2012)

When you are required to give pink cards, and required to rank people in chronological order, you have to rate people poorly.


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## LM (Mar 19, 2012)

cybersniper said:


> I have never used the peer system but looks very interesting. How do you avoid the sniper students to rate ALL their comrades "over" their true performance due to empathy instead of performace alone?
> Do you just take it and average?
> Very interesting method.
> Thanks
> ed


Id say it worked then and we move on with our own observations.
Its  not designed to force someone to fail as Ranger is. It gives us  a small glimpse of how their peers see them; are some working harder than others, did one guy say he just wants the tab, does another just feel like getting paid, one guy just putting minimum effort in, does one guy take charge and motivate the rest ect. It has no real value per se, but just another piece of info to collect.
So, I dont think that will happen, as it will be clearly stated that noone will be peered out, I dont believe someone HAS to fail.


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## LM (Mar 19, 2012)

Etype said:


> When you are required to give pink cards, and required to rank people in chronological order, you have to rate people poorly.


Ours may not mimmick what you know of as i dont haver it as chronological order, but i think my goal with it is different from what is usually associated with peer evals


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## JRas (May 4, 2015)

Peer evolution was part of my personal selection process as well as a interview with senior members of the platoon. 

We graded our peers a long with explanations why. It was anonymous, and we were later handed back a copy of what our peers thought of us. 

We also didn't shoot or get many classes, pretty much just a slay fest. Most quit or passed out.


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## Red Flag 1 (May 5, 2015)

Mod hat on:  If you are going to  make contributions to this thread, you better be vetted as a sniper. Without vetting, your words have hardly any weight at all. If you are going to request vetting, of any kind, we will need to see documents to back up your request.


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