# Military Misconduct



## Marauder06 (Mar 22, 2022)

Not sure there's an existing thread that's a good fit for this one, so I'm starting a new one:
A major was kicked out for stealing narcotics. Then he took $820,000 from the Air Force.​A major was kicked out for stealing narcotics. Then he took $820,000 from the Air Force.

To sum up:  he was stealing and using drugs downrange.  Got stupid about it (well, more stupid than just stealing the drugs and using them) and got caught.  Got kicked out but the checks kept coming.  So he kept cashing them...

...and oh by they way claimed to be an O5 and a Purple Heart recipient.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 22, 2022)

What a total bellend.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 22, 2022)

He had to know he would eventually get caught for all three things.  What a tool


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## Grunt (Mar 22, 2022)

He should be severely caned and thrashed until he can't stand under his own power every other day for the next six months. Then made a private and sentenced to work four years in a VA drug rehab center. That is all....


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## Marauder06 (Mar 22, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> What a total *bellend*.


I had to look that word up.  I normally only have to do that for x SF or Pardus.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 22, 2022)

Drug diversion is a serious issue. Sucks that he fell victim to it.

As to his other escapade’s, what a shitbag.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 22, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I had to look that word up.  I normally only have to do that for x SF or Pardus.



I'm here to teach you lot new and exotic ways of insulting people.


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## LimaPanther (Mar 22, 2022)

And now he will claim he has a service connected disability and draw a 100% VA disability. That is over $3,000 a month.


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## policemedic (Mar 23, 2022)

No sympathy.  

I do hope his crew kept him from making clinical mistakes.


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## AWP (Mar 23, 2022)

To my non-medical ass…

The story said those meds had to be accounted for. He clearly did this for awhile, so how was that possible? Medicine usage when he flew matched other crews’ usage? Someone helped him? The system is that broken? He took a lot of meds from his kit and no one noticed?


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## Marauder06 (Mar 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> To my non-medical ass…
> 
> The story said those meds had to be accounted for. He clearly did this for awhile, so how was that possible? Medicine usage when he flew matched other crews’ usage? Someone helped him? The system is that broken? He took a lot of meds from his kit and no one noticed?


During one of the times you and I were in Afghanistan at the same time, we had a minor issue inside the Task Force with some of the medics (of flight crew, I don't remember which) stealing narcotics and stimulants.  I don't recall all the details but I think that they were able to get away with it for a while by marking them as used or destroyed, and/or through very poor record keeping.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> To my non-medical ass…
> 
> The story said those meds had to be accounted for. He clearly did this for awhile, so how was that possible? Medicine usage when he flew matched other crews’ usage? Someone helped him? The system is that broken? He took a lot of meds from his kit and no one noticed?



Diversion is not that hard with access an placement, just like any other crime. This is why anesthesia providers display significantly higher levels of drug abuse than other types of physicians and medical providers. Anesthesia providers have easy access to all the drugs. 

One can give partial doses, draw more than needed and have witnesses waste, but actually waste saline. In hospital systems with digital systems and EMR’s this is tracked much better. Drugs out of a box, it is much easier. 

What I find disgusting is that if you are giving partial doses, the patient is feeling more pain than necessary.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> To my non-medical ass…
> 
> The story said those meds had to be accounted for. He clearly did this for awhile, so how was that possible? Medicine usage when he flew matched other crews’ usage? Someone helped him? The system is that broken? He took a lot of meds from his kit and no one noticed?


When my SOST team got to Farrah we burned boxes of morphine and other controlled drugs that we found abandoned by teams before us.  Normal checks don’t always apply down range, at least not early on.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 23, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> One can give partial doses, draw more than needed and have witnesses waste, but actually waste saline


I was going to ask, “that happens!?!”

But of course it does.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 23, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I was going to ask, “that happens!?!”
> 
> But of course it does.


Happens way too much


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 23, 2022)

A friend of mine's dad was Court Martialed for Sexual Harassment, he was the CO of a CSH.  He caught his nurses stealing pills, when he confronted them, they reported him to SHARP.  All but one witness recanted on the stand.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> A friend of mine's dad was Court Martialed for Sexual Harassment, he was the CO of a CSH.  He caught his nurses stealing pills, when he confronted them, they reported him to SHARP.  All but one witness recanted on the stand.


That sucks.  Sorry that happened to him.


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## TLDR20 (Mar 23, 2022)

Diversion is a vicious cycle. I would venture to say that many, maybe even most in healthcare have witnessed it at some level. I am sure @SOSTCRNA and @Devildoc would agree. Way too many people fall victim to the addictiveness of narcotics, benzos, and GABA agonists. Many start down the path innocuously, insomnia, pain, legit prescriptions. If anyone hasn't watched Dopesick, on Hulu, I highly recommend it.


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## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Diversion is a vicious cycle. I would venture to say that many, maybe even most in healthcare have witnessed it at some level. I am sure @SOSTCRNA and @Devildoc would agree. Way too many people fall victim to the addictiveness of narcotics, benzos, and GABA agonists. Many start down the path innocuously, insomnia, pain, legit prescriptions. If anyone hasn't watched Dopesick, on Hulu, I highly recommend it.



And it's often the people we suspect the least.  It's tough, and it's tragic.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 24, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> And it's often the people we suspect the least.  It's tough, and it's tragic.


It is indeed.  I knew two fantastic anesthesiologists that got out of the AF and within a couple years of separation were found dead in call rooms from injecting diverted narcotics.  Both highly intelligent, respected physicians, married with young children.  Ya never know.


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## Devildoc (Mar 24, 2022)

SOSTCRNA said:


> It is indeed.  I knew two fantastic anesthesiologists that got out of the AF and within a couple years of separation were found dead in call rooms from injecting diverted narcotics.  Both highly intelligent, respected physicians, married with young children.  Ya never know.



I have known maybe...10?  A dozen?  Nurses and docs booted for diversion.  Thankfully only one of those died.  They found her in a bathroom right outside of the ED with several sharps containers she had been going through, and many empty syringes laying on the floor around her.  It's such an awful demon.

I am thankful that our profession, at least in NC, swung from old-school punitive you'll-never-work-again to being helpful, rehabilitative, and trying to have the nurses re-enter the workforce at some point (albeit with significant restriction).


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## Andoni (Mar 24, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> They found her in a bathroom right outside of the ED with several sharps containers she had been going through, and many empty syringes laying on the floor around her. It's such an awful demon.


Damn. That is so dark.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 25, 2022)

Alcohol and bad decisions…

Air Force chief master sergeant convicted of dereliction of duty for distributing 'sexually explicit' photos and other charges


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## Grunt (Mar 25, 2022)

Alcohol...the most abused of all drugs....


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## policemedic (Mar 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> During one of the times you and I were in Afghanistan at the same time, we had a minor issue inside the Task Force with some of the medics (of flight crew, I don't remember which) stealing narcotics and stimulants.  I don't recall all the details but I think that they were able to get away with it for a while by marking them as used or destroyed, and/or through very poor record keeping.


Unfortunately, there are many ways to do this if you’re so inclined.  This is especially true with personally issued supplies (think downrange).  I’ve seen cases where vials/preloaded syringes were refilled with saline, doses of narcotics charted but not given (or replaced with saline) and the narc pocketed, and various other ways.  

One unintended consequence of the monitoring systems put in place to prevent diversion is that people who give appropriate amounts of pain meds are often flagged for review.  This results in providers being a little reticent to administer or prescribe certain meds even though doing so may be best practice.

I’m a big believer in appropriate pain control in the prehospital setting and trust me, the monitoring systems are a big part of why paramedics often don‘t give a narc, benzo, or ketamine.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 27, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> And now he will claim he has a service connected disability and draw a 100% VA disability. That is over $3,000 a month.



Figures......I couldn't even get hearing aids.....


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## Viper1 (Mar 27, 2022)

Grunt said:


> Alcohol...the most abused of all drugs....


Fact.  Sober four years and better for it


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## AWP (Mar 27, 2022)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Figures......I couldn't even get hearing aids.....



But the Army did give you AIDS, so there’s that…


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## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> But the Army did give you AIDS, so there’s that…



You can't get everything you ask for I guess.....


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## Grunt (Mar 28, 2022)

Viper1 said:


> Fact.  Sober four years and better for it


That's outstanding news, Brother! Keep up the fight....


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## Gunz (Mar 28, 2022)

Viper1 said:


> Fact.  Sober four years and better for it


Well done!


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## Marauder06 (Apr 5, 2022)

Marine Corps fires commander and sergeant major of Hawaii infantry battalion

_Lt. Col. Benjamin Wagner, the battalion commander of the Hawaii-based infantry unit was fired along with Sgt. Maj. Jayson Clifton, the unit’s top enlisted leader, the Marine Corps confirmed in a statement. They were removed on March 31 “due to a loss of trust and confidence,” though the precise reason remains unclear._


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## Blizzard (Apr 5, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Marine Corps fires commander and sergeant major of Hawaii infantry battalion
> 
> _Lt. Col. Benjamin Wagner, the battalion commander of the Hawaii-based infantry unit was fired along with Sgt. Maj. Jayson Clifton, the unit’s top enlisted leader, the Marine Corps confirmed in a statement. They were removed on March 31 “due to a loss of trust and confidence,” though the precise reason remains unclear._


You want the truth?  You can't handle the truth!


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## LimaPanther (Apr 5, 2022)

Guess they used cuss words at the troops while in formation. Somebody reported them because they felt hurt. Or, since this is an Infantry Bn, they made comments that were not in agreement with women being in the Infantry. Doesn't take much to be let go nowadays.


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## Kaldak (Apr 5, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> You want the truth?  You can't handle the truth!



Wrong coast and island 😉


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## Teufel (Apr 6, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Marine Corps fires commander and sergeant major of Hawaii infantry battalion
> 
> _Lt. Col. Benjamin Wagner, the battalion commander of the Hawaii-based infantry unit was fired along with Sgt. Maj. Jayson Clifton, the unit’s top enlisted leader, the Marine Corps confirmed in a statement. They were removed on March 31 “due to a loss of trust and confidence,” though the precise reason remains unclear._


I've known Ben for over twenty years. He was and remains one of our best officers. He didn't deserve what happened to him.


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## SOSTCRNA (Apr 6, 2022)

Teufel said:


> I've known Ben for over twenty years. He was and remains one of our best officers. He didn't deserve what happened to him.


None of us are surprised to hear this.  The military, like society in general, has lists its mind and backbone.


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## DA SWO (Apr 7, 2022)

Teufel said:


> I've known Ben for over twenty years. He was and remains one of our best officers. He didn't deserve what happened to him.


The post-war purge starts again.


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## Devildoc (Apr 7, 2022)

The Naval service (phrased precisely this way to include the Marine Corps) has a history of shit-canning good officers and NCOs for the very ambiguous "loss of trust and confidence."  A lot of things about my service that I am very proud of.  This is not one of them.


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## Gunz (Apr 7, 2022)

.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 11, 2022)

Hawaii Marine infantry battalion’s commanding officer, sergeant major fired

Pretty crazy, both the CO and the SMAJ of 3/3 were fired for loss of confidence. LT Col Wagner has been involved in some of the most recent iconic fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don’t typically judge someone based off their ribbon stack but if you only have 13 different medals/ribbons (SMAJ) after 20 years or so, to include not having a CAR, it appears you deliberately evaded being in a gun fight. SMAJ Clifton has only one or two deployments to Iraq and a GWOT ex somewhere. You don’t get to pick when gun fights happen but my point remains when other grunts of the same era have 12 plus different ribbons/medals for only 4 years of service.


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## Devildoc (Apr 11, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Hawaii Marine infantry battalion’s commanding officer, sergeant major fired
> 
> Pretty crazy, both the CO and the SMAJ of 3/3 were fired for loss of confidence. LT Col Wagner has been involved in some of the most recent iconic fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> I don’t typically judge someone based off their ribbon stack but if you only have 13 different medals/ribbons (SMAJ) after 20 years or so, to include not having a CAR, it appears you deliberately evaded being in a gun fight. SMAJ Clifton has only one or two deployments to Iraq and a GWOT ex somewhere. You don’t get to pick when gun fights happen but my point remains when other grunts of the same era have 12 plus different ribbons/medals for only 4 years of service.



What were his billets and MOSs?  I wonder if he spent a lot of time with wing or FSSG (or whatever it's called now).  Hard as hell to get a CAR in wing and FSSG.


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## Topkick (Apr 11, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Hawaii Marine infantry battalion’s commanding officer, sergeant major fired
> 
> Pretty crazy, both the CO and the SMAJ of 3/3 were fired for loss of confidence. LT Col Wagner has been involved in some of the most recent iconic fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> I don’t typically judge someone based off their ribbon stack but if you only have 13 different medals/ribbons (SMAJ) after 20 years or so, to include not having a CAR, it appears you deliberately evaded being in a gun fight. SMAJ Clifton has only one or two deployments to Iraq and a GWOT ex somewhere. You don’t get to pick when gun fights happen but my point remains when other grunts of the same era have 12 plus different ribbons/medals for only 4 years of service.


I don't pretend to understand the Marine Corps awards protocol but I definitely see your point about not having a CAR. The number of awards shouldn't matter though. Speaking only for my time in the Army, the awards system was just short of a farce.


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## Teufel (Apr 12, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Hawaii Marine infantry battalion’s commanding officer, sergeant major fired
> 
> Pretty crazy, both the CO and the SMAJ of 3/3 were fired for loss of confidence. LT Col Wagner has been involved in some of the most recent iconic fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> I don’t typically judge someone based off their ribbon stack but if you only have 13 different medals/ribbons (SMAJ) after 20 years or so, to include not having a CAR, it appears you deliberately evaded being in a gun fight. SMAJ Clifton has only one or two deployments to Iraq and a GWOT ex somewhere. You don’t get to pick when gun fights happen but my point remains when other grunts of the same era have 12 plus different ribbons/medals for only 4 years of service.


Ben earned his Purple Heart and Bronze star as a platoon commander in the battle of Fallujah. He’s a great Marine who didn’t deserve this

SgtMaj Clifton started his career as a grunt but became a radio repair Marine after some broken time. Hard to get a combat action ribbon as an electronic maintenance Marine.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2022)

Topkick said:


> Speaking only for my time in the Army, the awards system was just short of a farce.



Ditto only for my time in the Marines.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Hawaii Marine infantry battalion’s commanding officer, sergeant major fired
> 
> Pretty crazy, both the CO and the SMAJ of 3/3 were fired for loss of confidence. LT Col Wagner has been involved in some of the most recent iconic fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> I don’t typically judge someone based off their ribbon stack but if you only have 13 different medals/ribbons (SMAJ) after 20 years or so, to include not having a CAR,* it appears you deliberately evaded being in a gun fight.* SMAJ Clifton has only one or two deployments to Iraq and a GWOT ex somewhere. You don’t get to pick when gun fights happen but my point remains when other grunts of the same era have 12 plus different ribbons/medals for only 4 years of service.



Brother, cowardice presumed on a lack of decorations is a pretty strong assumption.

Based on the article, we don't know why these Marines were relieved. We may never know. But lack of confidence is an umbrella that covers a whole lot of ground.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 12, 2022)

Why is that? 



Teufel said:


> who didn’t deserve this


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## AWP (Apr 12, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Why is that?



I guess if you want to know what it’s like there, either earn it through selection or get hired to work there.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 12, 2022)

AWP said:


> I guess if you want to know what it’s like there, either earn it through selection or get hired to work there.


Great professionalism but since word is not accepted here anymore without a full story…

 👍👍🔥🏅

And by the way, I did earn mine to work in a line company as a grunt.


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## Grunt (Apr 12, 2022)

To have lost both like that, I suspect it either had to do with a specific incident or - hopefully not - politics. But, as previously said, we may never know.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 12, 2022)

Grunt said:


> To have lost both like that, I suspect it either had to do with a specific incident or - hopefully not - politics. But, as previously said, we may never know.


Digging deep into the Twitter and Facebook comments on 3/3 sites there are 2 pretty plausible (but different) stories; one in particular is sadly believable in today’s PC/Woke climate (Even in my beloved Corps).  Terminal Lance was part of that unit back in the day and has a Twitter conversation  on It.  There are Marines posting in this ShadowSpear thread who know at least one of the men so I am not going to “link” any stories or sites about rumors out of respect for that.  Easy to find though.


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## Grunt (Apr 12, 2022)

3/3 was the Battalion I EAS’d from. I hate to hear anything bad concerning them.


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## Teufel (Apr 12, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Why is that?


I can’t tell you more right now unfortunately. This case, unlike the other examples, is still active.


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## AWP (Apr 12, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Great professionalism but since word is not accepted here anymore without a full story…
> 
> 👍👍🔥🏅
> 
> And by the way, I did earn mine to work in a line company as a grunt.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 12, 2022)

Respectfully, I have to disagree with this statement:


BloodStripe said:


> Great professionalism *but since word is not accepted here anymore without a full story…*



This may be the former staff-member in me coming out, but what makes ShadowSpear work is the integrity of the Vetting and the tags that are assigned. I cannot tell you the hours that are put into vetting individual members and checking stories before vetting, especially SOF and SOF Support.

Unless I missed a post, nobody has called you out as a liar or questioned your background. This all started because of a comment you made in @AWP ’s book review thread… Code Over Country by Matthew Cole


BloodStripe said:


> I guess if you want to know what it’s like there, either earn it through selection or get hired to work there.



When asked to explain expand further on what you meant, you offered none.  I even attempted to expand on the question to you: Code Over Country by Matthew Cole (post #52)

Instead you started spamming the board with “SOF gone bad” stories - I don’t have my super-powers anymore so I cannot link them as quickly as I used to, but they are easily findable; to include the double posting the story about the firing at 3/3 - and that’s after @Teufel had already gently addressed the topic in the other thread.

You are a long time and respected member of this site, but It feels like you are trying to pick a fight about something that is not worth fighting over.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 12, 2022)

AWP said:


>


I can’t fill this out as a pdf, got a word doc?


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## Topkick (Apr 12, 2022)

Gunz said:


> cowardice presumed on a lack of decorations is a pretty strong assumption.


Our young warriors kick down doors and get Army Achievement medals, while E7 and above get a Bronze Star because......he's an E7 or above. So I wouldn't make any assumptions based on awards.


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## Grunt (Apr 12, 2022)

Topkick said:


> The  fruit salad is deceiving. Our young warriors kick down doors and get Army Achievement medals, while E7 and above get a Bronze Star because......he's an E7 or above.


I don’t let myself get worked up over that clownery anymore. I know the Warriors and what they did. No medal can validate their “Warriorship” in my world. Should medals count for more - sure they should, but like everything else, they have lost their importance and luster. They want everyone to be the same and medals are just another way for them to even the playing field by putting politicians on the same level as Warriors. Personally, I HATE “them”.


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## Kaldak (Apr 12, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I cannot tell you the hours that are put into vetting individual members and checking stories before vetting, especially SOF



So true. I spent hours upon hours for vetting. It was never an easy task, but you didn't get a tag or CUT without staff being 100% sure.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2022)

Not a Marine, but everything I know from working with Marines.  CAR's are incredibly hard to be awarded, even to grunts who see significant firefights.  But that's the Marine award's system where a NAM isn't handed out willy nilly like AAMs are in the Army.  (Although I think the Corps should be willing to award/reward its Marines more often)

But hey, I'm just some idiot who worked as an S1 in one of my assignments. 

I had something else about us being gaslit by some DoN Civilian, but I'll leave it at that.


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## Dimethylamine (Apr 14, 2022)

I just wish we stopped acknowledging mediocrity.  My section chief helped me out a lot but could only get an AAM because he got into some shenanigans.  Meanwhile, random AAAAS3 Lieutenant is getting an MSM for being staff, and 1SG thinks Joe deserves an AAM because he held open the door for a General.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 18, 2022)

Way to piss away your career. There should have been a stiffer penalty. Time to start making an example of domestic cases in the military. This is unacceptable “But Alfred does not face a punitive discharge”

Special Forces sergeant major gets 1 year, busted in rank for domestic violence


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## Marauder06 (Apr 18, 2022)

A guy fired a gun, choked his wife, and threatened to kill her (allegedly not for the first time) and only got a year in jail and gets to stay in uniform?  And he didn't even do the standard "the PTSD made me do it?"  Wow.  He must have had a GREAT legal team.


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## DA SWO (Apr 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> A guy fired a gun, choked his wife, and threatened to kill her (allegedly not for the first time) and only got a year in jail and gets to stay in uniform?  And he didn't even do the standard "the PTSD made me do it?"  Wow.  He must have had a GREAT legal team.


Did they keep him so the ex-wife would continue to receive alimony?
E-9 to E-7 is a significant pay cut, most which may go to his wife.
TIS? 20 years or more? He's got 16 per the article, which means enlisting at age 30, If he had a previous enlistment then he has 20 and will be retired 90 days after leaving the Military Disciplinary Barracks 60 days from now, that give his now-ex a huge chunk of his retirement check.
Cumberland County has an open charge sheet, which means re-arrest after Ft L, and 90 days or so in the County Jail.
DV conviction means no more firearms, and will severely crimp his post-Army employment opportunities.

So yeah, a year and lsing two stripes is a short sentence in the short-term, but the long-term impact financially and otherwise will make up for that.
Military Jury's can be quite creative when handing sentences out.
I was on a Jury that took all pay and allowances except for what his wife was getting.


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## Viper1 (Apr 19, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Way to piss away your career. There should have been a stiffer penalty. Time to start making an example of domestic cases in the military. This is unacceptable “But Alfred does not face a punitive discharge”
> 
> Special Forces sergeant major gets 1 year, busted in rank for domestic violence


He’ll likely get processed out after serving the jail time. Had a soldier in similar situation. Got  a year, released after 8 months, but within 30 days he was a civilian.


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## Gunz (Apr 19, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not a Marine, but everything I know from working with Marines.  CAR's are incredibly hard to be awarded, even to grunts who see significant firefights.  But that's the Marine award's system where a NAM isn't handed out willy nilly like AAMs are in the Army.  (Although I think the Corps should be willing to award/reward its Marines more often)
> 
> But hey, I'm just some idiot who worked as an S1 in one of my assignments.
> 
> I had something else about us being gaslit by some DoN Civilian, but I'll leave it at that.



I came home with a CAR and PH and might’ve gotten a Bronze w/V if my XO’s recommendation letter had been approved. And there were guys on my team who deserved at least that and more who got nada. I’m not bitching…stingy in the decoration department was SOP for the Marines in my day. Unless you were an officer.

Then I met an ex-Soldier who’d been a public information NCO in II Corps and got a Bronze from his CO for administrative work because they were both Buckeyes from Ohio.

It is what it is. My bros know who did what and that’s what really counts.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 20, 2022)

Someone in the Air Force and DoD didn't want to have a jury in this.  Yes, the AF has few GOs.  But nothing was stopping them from having a joint jury.  At least as far as I know, perhaps that JAG can tell us why this stupidity was allowed. 

The first ever court-martial for an Air Force general won't include a jury


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## DA SWO (Apr 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Someone in the Air Force and DoD didn't want to have a jury in this.  Yes, the AF has few GOs.  But nothing was stopping them from having a joint jury.  At least as far as I know, perhaps that JAG can tell us why this stupidity was allowed.
> 
> The first ever court-martial for an Air Force general won't include a jury


Because the UCMJ allows the defendant to request a Bench Trial.
The UCMJ does not allow "Joint Juries".


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## Cookie_ (May 7, 2022)

Regarding the story about the Command Team of 3/3 being relieved, it seems it's for a number of incidents, though the severity is not consistent.



> The battalion commander and top enlisted leader for 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment were relieved of command on March 31 after an investigation found both had “exercised poor judgment” for allowing a Marine to be arrested in front of an entire company and then implying the man was guilty of selling drugs, according to a redacted copy of the investigation.
> Eight days after the Marine was arrested, an anonymous Inspector General complaint was submitted against Lt. Col. Benjamin Wagner and Sgt. Maj. Jayson Clifton, according to a redacted copy of the command investigation, which Task & Purpose obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request. The arrest took place as Wagner was briefing his battalion’s Headquarters and Services company about a command climate survey. Immediately afterward, Wagner again used poor judgment when he continued his briefing and used a racial slur to describe one of the Marines in attendance to demonstrate how such language is unacceptable, the investigation found.
> The investigation also found that the battalion’s leadership had not followed proper procedure in denying liberty to a Marine who had tested positive for drug use, and one of the two men “acted derelict in his duties” by drinking alcohol at the start of mountain warfare training. Because both Wagner and Clifton’s names were redacted from the investigation, it is unclear which one consumed the alcohol.



Two of those seem pretty negligible for being relived of command. 
Drinking at MWTC? I guess myself, another dozen support dudes, and the ODB/ODAs I was with all should be in trouble too then. 
Procedural issues with a Marine who was a NCIS informant and not NJP'd seems like it wouldn't rise to a lose of confidence.

Letting a Marine get arrested in front of the company and then commenting on him being a "drug kingpin" is probably out of line.
Pointing out one of your Hispanic Marines and then using a slur as an example of "words you can't say" is absolutely out of line though.


Why the Marine Corps fired the commander and sergeant major of a Hawaii infantry battalion


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 7, 2022)

Allowing a guy to be arrested in front of an entire battalion is a reason they're getting canned?  That's a tactic that's been used for generations. DoD gone soft.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 7, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Allowing a guy to be arrested in front of an entire battalion is a reason they're getting canned?  That's a tactic that's been used for generations. DoD gone soft.


I never did something that extreme, but I did used to black out names and SSNs and post Art15 paperwork on the company bulletin board.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 7, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Regarding the story about the Command Team of 3/3 being relieved, it seems it's for a number of incidents, though the severity is not consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look everyone, the General learned how to speak HR:

_Maj. Gen. Jay Bargeron, commander of the 3rd Marine Division, wrote in his endorsement of the investigation that he relieved both men after losing confidence in their ability to lead. “*Their actions failed to ensure all personnel under their charge were treated with the dignity and respect demanded by our Corps’ values,*” Bargeron wrote on April 7._

Fuck this over-the-top PC bullshit where no one gets a correction or warning anymore; instead it is instant firing and replacement.   That statement by General Bergeron says everything I need to know about this investigation witch hunt.  

“Dignity and Respect demanded by our Corps Values” 🙄
 - gotta go to medical now, I think I sprained an eye-socket from rolling them so hard.


----------



## AWP (May 7, 2022)

You don't need to arrest them in front of the company to send a message. Hell, arrest them in almost any place on base and the whole unit knows before taps. Putting them in bracelets is enough. Do it at Battalion HQ in a conference room; the perp walk will send a message.

Do you relieve leaders over this? That's a bit extreme, but why do leaders think they need a public spectacle to enforce good will and discipline? 

My deityofyourchoice there's so much wrong in that story.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 12, 2022)

So a WC-130 crew landed their plane at Martha's Vineyard so that one of them could pick up his vintage motorcycle.
Air Force disciplines C-130 crew for ‘unplanned’ landing to pick up motorcycle in Martha’s Vineyard



> “I used to own old vintage BMW motorcycles, so that’s how I know,” he said. “I was eating next to the window … We looked out and we saw the plane. We saw people walking a vintage motorcycle up to the plane.”






> When wing leadership found out about the motorcycle incident, they grounded the crew at Mather and sent another crew to pick up the aircraft and crew on March 28. All five of the crew members “were downgraded on crew qualifications and administrative actions have been served,” the 403rd Wing stated. The wing’s chief of public affairs, Lt. Col. Marnee Losurdo, said Air Force policy is to not release specifics on nonjudicial punishment. *The motorcycle remains in California.*



So they got busted, grounded, and disciplined, and the guy still didn't even get his bike.


----------



## Blizzard (May 12, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So a WC-130 crew landed their plane at Martha's Vineyard so that one of them could pick up his vintage motorcycle.
> Air Force disciplines C-130 crew for ‘unplanned’ landing to pick up motorcycle in Martha’s Vineyard
> 
> 
> ...


His bike went from Martha's Vineyard, MA to Mather AFB/Sacramento, CA.  He wanted down at Keesler.  So, it's actually further away now!

BTW,  was it technically wrong? Sure, but still🖕 to the snitch in Martha’s Vineyard.


----------



## Gunz (May 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So a WC-130 crew landed their plane at Martha's Vineyard so that one of them could pick up his vintage motorcycle.
> Air Force disciplines C-130 crew for ‘unplanned’ landing to pick up motorcycle in Martha’s Vineyard
> 
> 
> ...



That's mild. Chuck Yeager used to borrow Army Hueys to fish for golden lake trout in the Sierras.


----------



## Devildoc (May 13, 2022)

Gunz said:


> That's mild. Chuck Yeager used to borrow Army Hueys to fish for golden lake trout in the Sierras.



Who the hell is gonna tell _HIM_ no??

I can see the conversation: "you tell him."  "No, YOU tell him."  "I'm not going to tell him."


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So a WC-130 crew landed their plane at Martha's Vineyard so that one of them could pick up his vintage motorcycle.
> Air Force disciplines C-130 crew for ‘unplanned’ landing to pick up motorcycle in Martha’s Vineyard
> 
> 
> ...



How do I put this... US Navy IPs at Pensacola book cross country flights to specific cities because they want to have a good time and show the students a good time.  THEN, they make sure they have extra seats for their friends or girlfriends.  Legit how my BiL wooed his wife, taking her on paid trips by the USN.


----------



## Gunz (May 13, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How do I put this... US Navy IPs at Pensacola book cross country flights to specific cities because they want to have a good time and show the students a good time.  THEN, they make sure they have extra seats for their friends or girlfriends.  Legit how my BiL wooed his wife, taking her on paid trips by the USN.



When I was in the Air Guard a Marine pilot used to fly his A-4 into our base on Fridays to spend the weekend with his girlfriend. Then we'd fuel him up and see ya next week.


----------



## Blizzard (May 13, 2022)

Gunz said:


> When I was in the Air Guard a Marine pilot used to fly his A-4 into our base on Fridays to spend the weekend with his girlfriend. Then we'd fuel him up and see ya next week.


Dudes used to (maybe they still do 🤔) do booze runs and bring back cases of their favorite liquor in their travel pods. It was a proficiency flight. This really isn't any different.  It's not like he bought the bike with government funds or something.


----------



## AWP (May 13, 2022)

This has gone on forever and will continue to go on forever. The only thing that changes is the paperwork required to make those runs. I'm betting the "mishap aircrew" didn't have the proper paperwork, or properly worded paperwork, on file. 

Still, quite dumb of them to walk a motorcycle up the ramp of a -130 in broad daylight.


----------



## Gunz (May 15, 2022)

They coulda said it was a donation for sniper teams in Ukraine.


----------



## Archangel27 (May 16, 2022)

I don't think this will be beat for the Guardians, still.

A Space Force member was busted down a rank for bailing on PT to get a PlayStation 5

Considering how much PS5's are still in demand . . .


----------



## SpitfireV (May 16, 2022)

Please. There's no gravity in space. PT is redundant.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 16, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So a WC-130 crew landed their plane at Martha's Vineyard so that one of them could pick up his vintage motorcycle.
> Air Force disciplines C-130 crew for ‘unplanned’ landing to pick up motorcycle in Martha’s Vineyard
> 
> 
> ...





I dont think this aircrew crossed the line...now if they were running drugs then different story.  [Unless proceeds were going to killer going away gifts....lol...j/k]

This is Why morale is at an all time low in each branch of service.



[edit to quote OG story]


----------



## Marauder06 (May 18, 2022)

This captain "motorboated" a female subordinate.

Officer ‘motorboated’ subordinate at promotion ceremony, retires after guilty plea



> "...during work the following day, according to a prosecution motion, Crosby “approached [the junior soldier], told her to stand up, placed the rank in front of her chest, leaned in the grab the rank with his teeth...then placed his face between [the junior soldier]’s breasts...[and] vigorously moved his head from side to side between [her] breasts while still holding the rank with his teeth.”



This wasn't "drunk and stupid at a unit party," this was something he planned, and told others about.

And he apparently wanted the same women to go with him on road trips because he "liked looking at her tits."

This guy was in the Army when I was still in high school... and that was something like 32 years ago.  We all know better than this.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This captain "motorboated" a female subordinate.
> 
> Officer ‘motorboated’ subordinate at promotion ceremony, retires after guilty plea
> 
> ...


I’m sorry. And I know it is wrong, but I cannot stop laughing at the absurdity of this story.  There has to be some history between these two. 

_But during work the following day, according to a prosecution motion, Crosby “approached [the junior soldier], told her to stand up, placed the rank in front of her chest, leaned in the grab the rank with his teeth...then placed his face between [the junior soldier]’s breasts...[and] vigorously moved his head from side to side between [her] breasts while still holding the rank with his teeth.”_


----------



## AWP (May 18, 2022)

He isn't right, but...goddamn, that's insane. Epic, stupid, high five, go to jail, legend, lose your retirement...a buffet of stupid.


----------



## SpitfireV (May 18, 2022)

She's told him she didn't want a promotion ceremony after he told her- twice- he was going to motorboat her. That would imply she wasn't comfortable with it, history or not. 

He sounds very very lucky not to have a sexual assault charge out of it all. What a dickhead.


----------



## Andoni (May 18, 2022)

Looks like he kept his retirement. Did 30 days confinement.


----------



## Blizzard (May 18, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m sorry. And I know it is wrong, but I cannot stop laughing at the absurdity of this story.  There has to be some history between these two.
> 
> _But during work the following day, according to a prosecution motion, Crosby “approached [the junior soldier], told her to stand up, placed the rank in front of her chest, leaned in the grab the rank with his teeth...then placed his face between [the junior soldier]’s breasts...[and] vigorously moved his head from side to side between [her] breasts while still holding the rank with his teeth.”_


Concur. I want to know "the rest of the story".

Maybe I'm the naive one but I can't believe anyone in that type of position these days doesn't  know better.


----------



## Gunz (May 18, 2022)

Waiting for the helmet-cam video.


----------



## Andoni (May 18, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Concur. I want to know "the rest of the story".
> 
> Maybe I'm the naive one but I can't believe anyone in that type of position these doesn't  know better.



Article says he wanted her to go to Jordan in his vehicle because he liked looking at her tits. I'm sure he knew it wasn't okay. He just didn't care. 

Edited to add: 

We've got a senior Leader on here who has had to deal with the clean up for this type of idiocy. Maybe they'll chime in.


----------



## SpitfireV (May 18, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Concur. I want to know "the rest of the story".
> 
> Maybe I'm the naive one but I can't believe anyone in that type of position these days doesn't  know better.



From my own experience, sometimes leaders when they're physically away from their bosses start to think rules and SOPs don't apply to them.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 18, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> From my own experience, sometimes leaders when they're physically away from their bosses start to think rules and SOPs don't apply to them.


Same.  All kinds of situations, all kinds of troops, all kinds of units.

That's one of the reasons it's important to enforce the little things.  He probably did a lot of little shit for a reeeeaaallly long time that could and should have been nipped in the bud before he went all Captain Non-Consensual like this.


----------



## AWP (May 18, 2022)

I think many of us appreciate a good pair of...anyway, but there's a time and place to express that admiration. If you're her superior that time and place is never.

The math is really that simple, the flow chart is not difficult.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> I think many of us appreciate a good pair of...anyway, but there's a time and place to express that admiration. If you're her superior that time and place is never.
> 
> The math is really that simple, the flow chart is not difficult.


"Don't be a jerk" has served me well over the last 27 years.

That, and "you're not as funny as you think you are, so maybe STFU."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That, and "you're not as funny as you think you are, so maybe STFU."


That one has saved me from many firings.

At a prior company when I was pretty new, I made a witty (I thought) comment on a conference call.  A mentor (now friend) sent me an email that said, “There are plenty of unemployed comedians.  Go easy on the humor”.


----------



## AWP (May 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That, and "you're not as funny as you think you are, so maybe STFU."



Hmm, maybe this has hurt my career prospects? Eh, prospect deez nu…


----------



## Teufel (May 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This captain "motorboated" a female subordinate.
> 
> Officer ‘motorboated’ subordinate at promotion ceremony, retires after guilty plea
> 
> ...


This one should have been easy. Dismissed from service without retirement benefits and charged with sexual assault. Don’t know how he got away with this slap on the wrist. This is an obscene miscarriage of justice.


----------



## Teufel (May 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Same.  All kinds of situations, all kinds of troops, all kinds of units.
> 
> That's one of the reasons it's important to enforce the little things.  He probably did a lot of little shit for a reeeeaaallly long time that could and should have been nipped in the bud before he went all Captain Non-Consensual like this.


As you said, there is no way this was strike one. Who knows what other deviant behavior he has been doing since the civil war or whenever he first enlisted. Failure at all levels here.


----------



## Gunz (May 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "you're not as funny as you think you are, so maybe STFU."



Thank you, sir. I've been trying really hard to hold back my snarkiness on this motorboating thing. But it's like Shamu trying to bust out of the tank at Sea World.


----------



## Gunz (May 19, 2022)

.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This captain "motorboated" a female subordinate.
> 
> Officer ‘motorboated’ subordinate at promotion ceremony, retires after guilty plea
> 
> ...


When I first read this headline I somewhere else I thought it was some party that went sideways...and then I read it.  Like holy fuck, how is this dude not in confinement for 6 months?


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 1, 2022)

.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 1, 2022)




----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 10, 2022)

This fucking guy…


Summary:  Army 05  booted out with a genera discharge, no retirement benefits, for being a colossal douche:  
Army lieutenant colonel to be separated after faking deployments, having multiple affairs


----------



## Gunz (Jun 10, 2022)

Assuming that Bronze did not come with a V.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 10, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This fucking guy…
> 
> 
> Summary:  Army 05  booted out with a genera discharge, no retirement benefits, for being a colossal douche:
> Army lieutenant colonel to be separated after faking deployments, having multiple affairs



Who hasn't faked a deployment or two....  

Side note...that link sent me on an adventure and I enjoyed looking thru all the pics of Dubai and I learned they don't have Income Tax but have a Flat tax of 5% and only pay $2.33 a gallon of gas.  Beer is cheaper in Germany then water but in Dubai gas is cheaper then water.

Thanks LTC M... you made me smarter!!!!


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 10, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Assuming that Bronze did not come with a V.


Sans “V,” just like mine.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 11, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Sans “V,” just like mine.



An achievement just the same and I didn’t mean to denigrate the award. I’ve just never been crazy about the dual purposes of the medal…another topic all together. My pardon if it came off that way. The guy’s a tool in any case.


----------



## Grunt (Jun 11, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This fucking guy…
> 
> 
> Summary:  Army 05  booted out with a genera discharge, no retirement benefits, for being a colossal douche:
> Army lieutenant colonel to be separated after faking deployments, having multiple affairs


I would like to cane him until he can't stand under his own power. Tool....


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 11, 2022)

Gunz said:


> An achievement just the same and I didn’t mean to denigrate the award. I’ve just never been crazy about the dual purposes of the medal…another topic all together. My pardon if it came off that way. The guy’s a tool in any case.


I didn't take it that way at all brother, in fact there was more to that post originally but it didn't get posted for some reason ;) 

I meant to say his BSM was for merit just like mine, but unlike me he apparently felt the need to church things up with a Silver Star and a few fake deployments.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2022)

This one might need it's own thread...but this be wild. 



> British paratroopers are being barred from deploying to a NATO exercise in the Balkans after videos leaked online of soldiers having an orgy with a civilian woman in the barracks.
> 
> According to The Times of London, military police earlier this month began investigating paratroopers of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment. The Times reported on June 7 that video clips “were circulated on social media” of a civilian woman engaging in a consensual orgy with the paratroopers in the Melville Barracks “while dozens watched.”
> 
> ...




Leaked barracks orgy video gets hundreds of British paratroopers barred from NATO mission


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> This one might need it's own thread...but this be wild.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So they miss out on a deployment or two? That’s it? Seems awfully mild. What do you think the reaction would be like if this happened at Bragg with the 82nd?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2022)

Gunz said:


> So they miss out on a deployment or two? That’s it? Seems awfully mild. What do you think the reaction would be like if this happened at Bragg with the 82nd?


Whole command at Bragg would get sacked...


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> This one might need it's own thread...but this be wild.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On a technical point, with only one woman involved, even if she is the town bicycle, this would be a gang-bang as opposed to an orgy.  Words matter.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> On a technical point, with only one woman involved, even if she is the town bicycle, this would be a gang-bang as opposed to an orgy.  Words matter.



I’m not on that ride, man.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Whole command at Bragg would get sacked...



Fuck yeah.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 21, 2022)

Gunz said:


> I’m not on that ride, man. After sloppy twenty-sixth, I’m definitely out.


Me too. No, thanks.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jun 21, 2022)

This is was the final straw in a list of issues.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 22, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> This is was the final straw in a list of issues.



I always thought British paras were disciplined and squared away. Ive seen some pretty stupid shit amongst my crayon-chomping brethren…but this is stupid and just frikkin nasty.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2022)

Range OIC got **prison time** after private accidentally killed on a range:

Army Officer Overseeing Safety Gets Prison Sentence After Private's Death on Firing Range


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Range OIC got **prison time** after private accidentally killed on a range:
> 
> Army Officer Overseeing Safety Gets Prison Sentence After Private's Death on Firing Range


That reads like a nightmare.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2022)

I'd like to read the full report.  This is not in keeping with other incidents that took place at Fort Campbell in the past, but I'm not privy to all of the details of this case.


----------



## AWP (Jun 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'd like to read the full report.  This is not in keeping with other incidents that took place at Fort Campbell in the past, but I'm not privy to all of the details of this case.



IF the article is correct, big if, he might be lucky just to have the 4 months. I agree though, I’d like to see the full report, but at face value the man didn’t do his job.

With that said, how many of us, knowingly or unknowingly, used a range that didn’t meet all of the required safety criteria?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> With that said, how many of us, knowingly or unknowingly, used a range that didn’t meet all of the required safety criteria?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> IF the article is correct, big if, he might be lucky just to have the 4 months. I agree though, I’d like to see the full report, but at face value the man didn’t do his job.
> 
> *With that said, how many of us, knowingly or unknowingly, used a range that didn’t meet all of the required safety criteria?*



When I was a young company-grade officer at Fort Campbell, like the officer mentioned in the article, MANY times.  We had a job to do, and the commander wasn't going to accept "failure to plan / failure to execute."


----------



## AWP (Jun 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> When I was a young company-grade officer at Fort Campbell, like the officer mentioned in the article, MANY times.  We had a job to do, and the commander wasn't going to accept "failure to plan / failure to execute."



My outsider’s opinion, someone died and Big Army had to make someone pay. Optics, sacrificial lamb, send a message to others and all that.


----------



## Teufel (Jun 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> IF the article is correct, big if, he might be lucky just to have the 4 months. I agree though, I’d like to see the full report, but at face value the man didn’t do his job.
> 
> With that said, how many of us, knowingly or unknowingly, used a range that didn’t meet all of the required safety criteria?


Not in any unit I’ve been a part of. No shortcuts when it comes to range safety.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'd like to read the full report.  This is not in keeping with other incidents that took place at Fort Campbell in the past, but I'm not privy to all of the details of this case.



The biggest sticking point in the article for me is that it doesn't make it clear if the medics didn't have a plan for treatment, or if they were even there at all.
Both are problems, but not having medical at all is definitely jail time worthy negligence.

As to the other points (lack of NCO safeties, safties not practicing CLS skills, and lack of clearing), all of those are sadly things I saw all to often when I was with big army. People rush training because everyone wants to do things quick, not right.

I'm very interested in exactly how this soldier died. It seems like it may have been a ND off the range, based on talking about lack of clearing weapons.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 23, 2022)

Teufel said:


> Not in any unit I’ve been a part of. No shortcuts when it comes to range safety.



The Corps is second to none in that regard, at least in my experience.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 8, 2022)

Army sergeant major going to jail after an affair with a subordinate corporal

SGM carrying on an adulterous affair with a lower enlisted subordinate, lied about it, got busted, went to jail and got busted a pay grade.

Ouch.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 8, 2022)

Beat me too it on that one @Marauder06


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 9, 2022)

All of this for some outdated red dot sights? What a bunch of idiots.

Arms room theft conspiracy ends in Army captain, NCO convictions


----------



## Andoni (Jul 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> All of this for some outdated red dot sights? What a bunch of idiots.
> 
> Arms room theft conspiracy ends in Army captain, NCO convictions


May as well have been MILES gear from 05, unless that junk is still around and being used (I googled, it may be).


----------



## AWP (Jul 9, 2022)

Patriot batteries are all the rage now it seems.


----------



## Andoni (Jul 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Patriot batteries are all the rage now it seems


Stolen goods ring during CSM Sex A Lot Investigation: The key is "the communications closet" tell me/them everything is in the closet, what could go wrong?


----------



## Gunz (Jul 10, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> All of this for some outdated red dot sights? What a bunch of idiots.
> 
> Arms room theft conspiracy ends in Army captain, NCO convictions





Marauder06 said:


> Army sergeant major going to jail after an affair with a subordinate corporal
> 
> SGM carrying on an adulterous affair with a lower enlisted subordinate, lied about it, got busted, went to jail and got busted a pay grade.
> 
> Ouch.



Idle minds are the devil’s workshop. Time for another war.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 11, 2022)

General gets fired for shots at Jill Biden:

NPR Cookie Consent and Choices

Curious if this young medic will get any punitive action:

‘Enraged’ Army medic’s TikTok video ripping Roe v. Wade ruling goes viral


----------



## Gunz (Jul 11, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> General gets fired for shots at Jill Biden:
> 
> NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
> 
> ...



Too easy. The General gets fired. The medic will probably get promoted.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 11, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> General gets fired for shots at Jill Biden:
> 
> NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
> 
> ...



Well he's a consultant and no longer in active service...also, his rate is super cheap. Only $92/hour.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 11, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> General gets fired for shots at Jill Biden:
> 
> NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
> 
> ...


from the article:


> How am I supposed to swear to support and defend the Constitution and a country that treats its women like second class citizens?



Fucking don't do it then.  Quit.  There have been PLENTY of political decisions that I didn't like over the years, but it never made me question my commitment to the Constitution.  GTFO then.

And by the way, the Dobbs decision was the right one BASED ON THE CONSTITUTION.  This should have been, and should be, determined by the States.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 11, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well he's a consultant and no longer in active service...also, his rate is super cheap. Only $92/hour.


That's SUPER cheap.  The leader training institute here at West Point pays their O/Cs $100 an hour.  My wife did it last time we were here.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 15, 2022)

Lots of letters getting attached to files. And, the alleged fire starter hasn't even had his trial started.

Vice admiral and two dozen others punished for USS Bonhomme Richard fire



> “The disposition decisions included six Nonjudicial Punishments (NJP) with guilty findings, two NJPs with Matter of Interest Filings (MIF) and a Letter of Instruction (LOI), two NJP dismissals with a warning, one additional MIF, five other LOIs, three Non-Punitive Letters of Caution (NPLOC), two letters to former Sailors documenting substandard performance, and six no-action determinations,” the Navy said in a statement.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 16, 2022)

The alleged fire-starter was a disgruntled SEAL washout, pissed because he had to serve with the regular swab-jockeys.


----------



## Andoni (Jul 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> The alleged fire-starter was a disgruntled SEAL washout, pissed because he had to serve with the regular swab-jockeys.


At least one process worked. What a douche. Too bad he can't get the chair for the ruined innocent lives of people.


----------



## Andoni (Jul 16, 2022)

Maybe he can- 57 people were injured, but I wasn't talking about that. That's in addition. Arson, is arson, is arson. I was talking about the loss of livelihoods. However, I don't know the facts, so who knows. If they were keeping supply bays filled with Styrofoam and combustibles because they weren't doing their jobs- that's bullshit.

 *Just to clarify* pre-coffee post. Haha.


----------



## AWP (Jul 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> The alleged fire-starter was a disgruntled SEAL washout, pissed because he had to serve with the regular swab-jockeys.



This is the wrong fucking way to get a book deal. Jus' sayin'.

Besides, attempted murder is sooo NSW, not Surface Warfare. Dude was totally outside of his lane.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 16, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> General gets fired for shots at Jill Biden:
> 
> NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
> 
> ...



A Brigade Judge Advocate ran up a similar sounding case to me on the latter.  It's not the first time and won't be the last that people do inappropriate stuff in uniform.


----------



## Brill (Jul 23, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> A Brigade Judge Advocate ran up a similar sounding case to me on the latter.  It's not the first time and won't be the last that people do inappropriate stuff in uniform.



I’m confident any disposition will be appealed via civilian counsel as protected 1A speech (aka being an idiot in uniform while using the app that redirects ALL your data to a Chinese server…allegedly of course. I am unaware of what Tic Tok does or doesn’t do.)


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 23, 2022)

Hawaii-based Marine allegedly stabbed his (ex?)wife to death on the side of the H3.  

Marine allegedly stabs and kills pregnant ex-wife in Hawaii


----------



## Teufel (Jul 25, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Hawaii-based Marine allegedly stabbed his (ex?)wife to death on the side of the H3.
> 
> Marine allegedly stabs and kills pregnant ex-wife in Hawaii


Not ideal. It’s a messy case.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 25, 2022)

When you're stabbing your pregnant ex-wife multiple times on a public highway in broad daylight...you've gone a bit beyond military "misconduct."


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 25, 2022)

Gunz said:


> When you're stabbing your pregnant ex-wife multiple times on a public highway in broad daylight...you've gone a bit beyond military "misconduct."



At that point having a uniform (or not) is secondary to the issue.  If he was a banker would it be "banker misconduct"?


----------



## DasBoot (Jul 25, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Hawaii-based Marine allegedly stabbed his (ex?)wife to death on the side of the H3.
> 
> Marine allegedly stabs and kills pregnant ex-wife in Hawaii


* Fort Hood has entered the chat*


----------



## AWP (Jul 25, 2022)

I saw this article...ho-hum, another skipper relieved fired for the usual "reasons." What caught my eye though is this:

Navy fires nuclear submarine captain after only 8 months on the job



> The Navy did not go into specific reasons why it lost confidence with Rumler, which is what it has also said for almost all of the *seven naval officers and a command master chief who have been relieved of command since May 31* (one was fired after being arrested on suspicion of drunk driving). *More than a dozen have been fired since the start of the year.*
> 
> The term itself is a vague catch-all that the military likes to use for a slew of issues, and a Navy spokeswoman told Task & Purpose* the service relieves on average 17 commanding officers per year.*



17 CO's per year. Yeah, this is across ships, subs, squadrons, shore commands, etc., and I have no idea how this compares to other services, but 17 a year. Hooyah, Navy! A change of command ceremony isn't a party, it's a wake for your career.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> I saw this article...ho-hum, another skipper relieved fired for the usual "reasons." What caught my eye though is this:
> 
> Navy fires nuclear submarine captain after only 8 months on the job
> 
> ...



It makes you think a bunch of admirals are sitting around a version of the money wheel, but instead of money amounts, they are ships and commands.

"Who is going home today, Dan?"

"Oh, let's take a spin and find out..."

"CO USS Scranton, c'mon down, you've been relieved!  Johnny, tell him what he's won!"

"Thanks, Bob!  CDR. Rumler, you have won an all-expense end of your career!  That's right, now you can finally take your family on vacation and let your hair grow!"


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> I saw this article...ho-hum, another skipper relieved fired for the usual "reasons." What caught my eye though is this:
> 
> Navy fires nuclear submarine captain after only 8 months on the job
> 
> ...


Giving the Russians a run for their money, I guess.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 26, 2022)

Damn.  


> Hinesville Police said Mrs. Williams pulled her sedan into Liberty Square Shopping Center while her husband was following her.
> 
> SFC Williams chased his wife into a business in the shopping center with a gun and barricaded himself there.



Active-duty soldier kills wife and then himself at Georgia shopping mall


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 26, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Hawaii-based Marine allegedly stabbed his (ex?)wife to death on the side of the H3.
> 
> Marine allegedly stabs and kills pregnant ex-wife in Hawaii



She was apparently pretty vocal on social media about reporting him to his Chain and local PD, but nothing was ever done.

A Marine allegedly murdered his ex-wife. Her family says the Corps ignored her previous pleas for help

From the article 



> *Military police at Marine Corps Base Hawaii, and the Honolulu Police Department, responded to “multiple instances”* of domestic disputes both on and off base, the 3rd Marine Division statement says. *The Marine Corps said that immediately after the reported instances, Tejedacastillo and Alotaibi were referred to the Family Advocacy Program “for counseling and support.” *
> The Family Advocacy Program is focused on “directly addressing domestic violence through prevention, education, reporting, intervention and treatment,” according to the Marine Corps. The FAP website says the program utilizes “highly-qualified, licensed clinical staff” who are “trained in family violence” to assist families.



Bolded is me, not the article.

How fucking crazy is it that the MPs respond to MULTIPLE CALLS of domestic violence and the plan of action is "have you tried talking to a counselor?".

The time to talk to a counselor is before dude starts beating on her, not after he does it a dozen damn times.


----------



## AWP (Jul 26, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> * Fort Hood has entered the chat*



Fort Stewart has entered the chat...as we knew it would.


----------



## DasBoot (Jul 26, 2022)

AWP said:


> Fort Stewart has entered the chat...as we knew it would.


The Stewart coke ring is still one of my all time favorite tales of army depravity.


----------



## Brill (Jul 26, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> The Stewart coke ring is still one of my all time favorite tales of army depravity.


I do coke so I can Army…I Army so I can do coke…


----------



## DasBoot (Jul 27, 2022)

Brill said:


> I do coke so I can Army…I Army so I can do coke…


Easy there, 7th Group.


----------



## Andoni (Jul 27, 2022)

Top Air Force scientist allegedly got a sex worker a military research job so he could have an affair

Made the sex worker an administrative technician on a military propulsion research program...

Don't know what propulsion means, cause I don't care- but this whole thing reads like an awkward science porno


----------



## AWP (Jul 27, 2022)

Andoni said:


> an awkward science porno


7/10 stars, would fap again


----------



## Gunz (Jul 27, 2022)

Propulsion: Thrust.


----------



## Andoni (Jul 27, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Propulsion: Thrust.


 A military thrusting research study with a hooker and 27 escorts? I give up. 🤣


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 30, 2022)

Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:

Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs


----------



## Topkick (Aug 30, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:
> 
> Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs



I get that these dudes are baddest of badasses, but what happened to taking care of your people? There has to be a balance.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 30, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I get that these dudes are baddest of badasses, but what happened to taking care of your people? There has to be a balance.


An Air Force officer I worked with mused if anything was to be gained by practicing bleeding...first time I heard the expression, but in retrospect, some of what we do in those schools could be defined that way, in my opinion.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 30, 2022)

I honestly don’t think you need to go through all that hellacious hazing and torture to be a professional Special Operations Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman. Tough training, yes. Tough schools, yes. Long pipeline, yes. Exacting qualifications, yes. But there’s a line between tough training and just sadistic bullshit.


----------



## TLDR20 (Aug 30, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:
> 
> Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs



Fits with every experience I have had with SEALs my entire adult life.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 30, 2022)

I have friends who were SEALs.  One of my best friends from FMSS elected to try out for BUDS rather than recon, he is a retired E9 now.  

We talk about this stuff, and it burns his chaps. We both think it's unfortunate that the entire community is measured by stuff like this, and by that book that came out in the spring.  But I have told him that his community has to set it right, leadership has to fix it. Otherwise it is a self-eating snake that will never be fixed.  

Things like this remind me of that old adage, "a person is good, but people are awful." The ones I know and like, I like very much and they are great guys. But they are not representative of this community for sure.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 30, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I have friends who were SEALs.  One of my best friends from FMSS elected to try out for BUDS rather than recon, he is a retired E9 now.
> 
> We talk about this stuff, and it burns his chaps. We both think it's unfortunate that the entire community is measured by stuff like this, and by that book that came out in the spring.  But I have told him that his community has to set it right, leadership has to fix it. Otherwise it is a self-eating snake that will never be fixed.
> 
> Things like this remind me of that old adage, "a person is good, but people are awful." The ones I know and like, I like very much and they are great guys. But they are not representative of this community for sure.


Concur.  There are thousands of SEALs. As with any career field, there will always be groups of assholes.


----------



## AWP (Aug 30, 2022)

I've been hard on NSW for about "a minute" and taken a beating for my views, but I'm good with my stance. There are some amazing human beings, dedicated patriots and Americans in the Teams. I do not question their bravery for a second.

Their culture and their leadership however...sucks.

BUD/S is hard because it needs to be hard. Instructors, I base this solely on articles and my not-close-to-BUD/S experiences, need to be better trained. This is across the board in military, LEO, civilian education, the list goes on with varying degrees of severity. How does one defend an instructor allowing a trainee to cough up blood as acceptable?

The drugs? We've seen this before. Sadly, I doubt any of us are surprised.

Look, other branches and SOF units have problems. Rangers robbing banks, SF with a laundry list, but SEAL Teams? Look at the size of the force and the percentages, and some of the events. What is going on there? We can't argue that there are good men in those units, that is obvious. So where is their influence? How are they marginalized such that shit like this happens? Are they not speaking up or are they speaking up and leadership fails to act?

I "get" the community is under a microscope, but it brought that upon itself. Books, movies, video games, whatever, a mystique was created and they have to own that brand. Also, Dick Marcinko needs to eat of dicks. With some of the incidents that have occurred over the last two decades, why hasn't the community policed itself?

"Ban the SEAL Teams!" is a dumb take, but something has to happen and it has to be "bold." This can't happen in the shadows, it can't be "loss of confidence in his ability to command" statements, it has to be somewhat public and severe. 

These are men who will not back down from a gunfight, but somehow and for some reason(s) back down from internal policing. Why?

The leadership and culture need to shift. BUD/S doesn't need an overhaul, leadership needs an overhaul. The community has earned the right to a better legacy, but not if this is the new normal. If this is the norm, this is the beating they deserve. SEALS can fix this, but will they?


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 30, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:
> 
> Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs


That is wild. One thing that stood out to me is the attrition rate- 90%. And it got down to 66% in the late 2000s, early 2010s if I recall correctly. 

That means the majority of the instructors went through during the high graduation days. Sounds like a lot of sadistic, untested dudes dishing out punishment they never received. 

And steroid rings in selection? I’ve heard stories of some people doing that in other selections, but not an organized operation. 

I don’t play the “who has the hardest” selection game. I’ll say that no selection is so difficult you cannot complete it by being prepared and in above average, perfectly attainable shape.


----------



## TLDR20 (Aug 30, 2022)

I was working “SEAL adjacent” in 2015-17, and a lot of the dudes were wearing “Make BUD/S Hard Again” shirts. Makes you wonder, a 3-4 year pump, zero (real) deployments and now you a nightmare cadre to some kid who would literally die before he quits.


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 30, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I was working “SEAL adjacent” in 2015-17, and a lot of the dudes were wearing “Make BUD/S Hard Again” shirts. Makes you wonder, a 3-4 year pump, zero (real) deployments and now you a nightmare cadre to some kid who would literally die before he quits.


“If it wasn’t done to me, I won’t do it to you.” That was my Motto when it came to corrective training when I was still on the line. And even then, I had some shit done to me as a private I would never put another grown ass man through.

Empathy is an underrated personal skill in SOF, IMO.


----------



## Topkick (Aug 30, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> “If it wasn’t done to me, I won’t do it to you.” That was my Motto when it came to corrective training when I was still on the line. And even then, I had some shit done to me as a private I would never put another grown ass man through.


This..you can still smoke a joe with purposeful training.


----------



## Ex3 (Aug 30, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Fits with every experience I have had with SEALs my entire adult life.


I wish you could’ve met my first husband. He was loved and respected by everyone…an enlisted man’s officer.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 30, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> “If it wasn’t done to me, I won’t do it to you.” That was my Motto when it came to corrective training when I was still on the line. And even then, I had some shit done to me as a private I would never put another grown ass man through.
> 
> Empathy is an underrated personal skill in SOF, IMO.



As an instructor, cadre, NCO, or officer, I've never yelled at anyone in uniform. Never demeaned them, never called them a name, empathy is a basic human trait. I don't know why the military does not encourage empathy. There's a time for a hammer, sure, and then there is a time to be not a hammer.


----------



## TLDR20 (Aug 30, 2022)

Ex3 said:


> I wish you could’ve met my first husband. He was loved and respected by everyone…an enlisted man’s officer.



Me too.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2022)

AWP said:


> I've been hard on NSW for about "a minute" and taken a beating for my views, but I'm good with my stance. There are some amazing human beings, dedicated patriots and Americans in the Teams. I do not question their bravery for a second.
> 
> Their culture and their leadership however...sucks.
> 
> ...



Dick passed in September, won't be hearing from him again.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 31, 2022)

Former Ranger-turned-JAG busted for... well, a whole bunch of stuff:

Army JAG with vendetta tried contacting Russian embassy: prosecutors


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2022)

Somewhere there's a Navy SEAL breathing a sigh of relief that the spotlight is off of him....


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 31, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Somewhere there's a Navy SEAL breathing a sigh of relief that the spotlight is off of him....


They'll probably write a book about this too.


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 31, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Former Ranger-turned-JAG busted for... well, a whole bunch of stuff:
> 
> Army JAG with vendetta tried contacting Russian embassy: prosecutors


Says he was stationed in Savannah when he was still enlisted… adding another one to our wall of shame it looks like.


----------



## AWP (Aug 31, 2022)

At least the guy didn’t commit murder…


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 31, 2022)

AWP said:


> At least the guy didn’t commit murder…


Of course he didn't.  I mean, after all he's not a SEAL...


----------



## Gunz (Aug 31, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Of course he didn't.  I mean, after all he's not a SEAL...


A rimshot just doesn’t suffice here


BAM!


----------



## AWP (Aug 31, 2022)

Cav Scouts now that our focus is on the Teams:


----------



## Topkick (Aug 31, 2022)

Good Cav joke...can't deny it


----------



## CryptoLingUSMC (Sep 2, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Lots of misconduct alleged in this read:
> 
> Death in Navy SEAL Training Exposes a Culture of Brutality, Cheating and Drugs


Informed analysis of the article:


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 6, 2022)

I suppose this is as good here as anywhere else. 

Mastermind of $58m US navy bribery case 'Fat Leonard' escapes before sentencing


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 6, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> I suppose this is as good here as anywhere else.
> 
> Mastermind of $58m US navy bribery case 'Fat Leonard' escapes before sentencing


Hell, we have a whole thread for that topic already.

"Fat Leonard" Scandal

@ShadowSpear - can you move the above post into the appropriate thread?

Or give a few of us our SuperPowers back so that we can trim this tree up a bit? 🤔


----------



## Kaldak (Sep 7, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> give a few of us our SuperPowers back so that we can trim this tree up a bit?



Ready and willing.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 7, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hell, we have a whole thread for that topic already.
> 
> "Fat Leonard" Scandal
> 
> ...



Aw fuck we do too haha. Cheers for that.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 5, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577438707442860033
Leaked video of SEAL recruits being gassed during hell week. 

This shit looks pretty overboard for "training", and seems to violate SEAL training regs from what I've heard.


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2022)

Deleting posts is hard…


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2022)

The comments in that Twitter thread are awesome. Also, people are stupid.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2022)

The video wasn't THAT bad.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 5, 2022)

I don't know jack shit about the use of tear gas. Can it be deluded? Can some of the steam be for effect?


----------



## pardus (Oct 5, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> The video wasn't THAT bad.


No, but if it's against the regs...


Topkick said:


> I don't know jack shit about the use of tear gas. Can it be deluded? Can some of the steam be for effect?


Steam? That's gas. It can be made to varying strengths.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> Steam? That's gas. It can be made to varying strengths.



Okay, that make sense. I guess I should've said spray instead of steam.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 5, 2022)

The optics are bad, but the American public believes that SEAL’s and most other SOF types do that shit everyday for fun.
I guess that’s the only comment I feel qualified to make about BUDS.


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2022)

I have a hard time believing breathing in that concentration of tear gas for that long doesn't harm your lungs. Remember, this is the course where guys were self-medicating to prevent fluid from building up in their lungs...which killed a trainee.


----------



## pardus (Oct 5, 2022)

AWP said:


> I have a hard time believing breathing in that concentration of tear gas for that long doesn't harm your lungs. Remember, this is the course where guys were self-medicating to prevent fluid from building up in their lungs...which killed a trainee.


American Lung Association- Tear Gas

Riot control agents, often referred to as "tear gas," are chemicals that cause skin, respiratory, and eye irritation. Some of the most common chemicals used are chloroacetophenone (CN)—which is a toxic air pollutant, chlorobenzylidenemalononitrile (CS), chloropicrin (PS), bromobenzylcyanide (CA) and dibenzoxazepine (CR). While tear gas is typically perceived as causing mostly short-term health impacts, there is evidence of permanent disability in some cases.  

In general, exposure to tear gas can cause chest tightness, coughing, a choking sensation, wheezing and shortness of breath, in addition to a burning sensation in the eyes, mouth and nose; blurred vision and difficulty swallowing. Tear gas can also cause chemical burns, allergic reactions and respiratory distress. People with preexisting respiratory conditions, such as asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), have a higher risk of developing severe symptoms of their disease that could lead to respiratory failure.   

Long-term health effects from tear gas are more likely if exposed for a prolonged period or to a high dose while in an enclosed area. In these instances, it can lead to respiratory failure and death.  

If exposed to tear gas, the American Lung Association advises you to immediately distance yourself from the source and seek higher ground, if possible. Flush your eyes with water and use a gentle soap, such as baby shampoo, to wash your face. If breathing trouble persists, seek medical attention immediately.  

Chloropicrin (CS)-induced toxicity in the respiratory system
Abstract​Chloropicrin is a volatile and reactive chemical that has been utilized as a warfare agent and a pesticide to fumigate soil against insects, fungi and nematodes. It poses a health risk to humans and animals if inhaled. The main source of chloropicrin exposure is occupational and occurs during its manufacture, transport and fumigation. Chloropicrin is toxic via all routes of exposure but the main route of systemic exposure is inhalation of the ambient air. Thus, the toxicity mainly affects the respiratory system. After a low level exposure, the first sign is irritation of the upper respiratory tract and eyes. Irritation is mediated by the sensory nerve fibers, which coordinate further activation of various protective reflexes. Chloropicrin-induced irritation is generally reversible but can alter airway responsiveness to other inhalation toxicants. Severe exposures cause injuries in the respiratory tract, inflammation, and even life-threatening edema. Much of the chloropicrin-caused symptoms and toxicity in the respiratory system displays similarities with those evoked by chlorine, which is also a breakdown product of chloropicrin. This review summarizes the latest information on chloropicrin with emphasis on the toxicity in the respiratory system. The data indicates that oxidative stress, modification of macromolecules, mutations, dysfunctions of cell organelles and cell death are involved in acute chloropicrin-induced toxicity in the respiratory system.
*Keywords: *Acute exposure; Irritant; Mechanism(s)of toxicity; Pesticide; Warfare agent.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 7, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I don't know jack shit about the use of tear gas. Can it be deluded? Can some of the steam be for effect?


Various strengths, AF used a really weak gas that cause me to sneeze, with minor eye irritation. 82nd used stuff that made ya cough and gag.  What strength was this needs to be determined, also who took the video.


----------



## compforce (Oct 7, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Various strengths, AF used a really weak gas that cause me to sneeze, with minor eye irritation. 82nd used stuff that made ya cough and gag.  What strength was this needs to be determined, also who took the video.


Infantry Basic used stuff that made you run head first into the light pole conveniently located directly outside the exit of every gas chamber...


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 7, 2022)

At field med school we had a team CASEVAC event with a litter and 200# manikin, they gassed us along a mile trail where there were obstacles and things to do.  It sucked.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 7, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Various strengths, AF used a really weak gas that cause me to sneeze, with minor eye irritation. 82nd used stuff that made ya cough and gag.  What strength was this needs to be determined, also who took the video.


Yeah, my thoughts were that this may not be a bad as it looks. The many CS chambers I've been through varied in strengths. Basic training choked the shit outta of us and stayed in our gear long after, but other times were just a minor irritant. I don't know anything about how the SEALs train with or deliver the gas.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 7, 2022)

We used CS, our annual mask certification used just enough to make your eyes water and nose run. We had a few pukers. lol  But that was a chamber.  
I always found outdoor use was worse because of a higher concentration needed to counter wind. 
We did a brigade level decontamination event.  I was also a casualty. Temps not to high above freezing.   I don't know what was worse, the near hypothermia or the gas.  My head leaked for a good hour.


----------



## BloodStripe (Oct 25, 2022)

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-new...iend-charged-with-cyberstalking-mans-ex-wife/

Imagine being an attorney for the US and somehow never thinking to yourself, wow this is highly illegal.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 25, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> https://www.wavy.com/news/local-new...iend-charged-with-cyberstalking-mans-ex-wife/
> 
> Imagine being an attorney for the US and somehow never thinking to yourself, wow this is highly illegal.



That's one way to stop your ex from getting your retirement.


----------



## AWP (Oct 25, 2022)

Good initiative, poor judgement. Good luck getting your license to practice law again.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 28, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> https://www.wavy.com/news/local-new...iend-charged-with-cyberstalking-mans-ex-wife/
> 
> Imagine being an attorney for the US and somehow never thinking to yourself, wow this is highly illegal.


Good lawyer will drag it out and tell him to drop papers, that said he may have a 10 year obligation for med school. So he gets fucked either way.

@AWP 5 bucks says she finds a state that will grant it, State bars are not as stringent as I once thought they were.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 28, 2022)

Shit like this makes my blood boil.

The person responsible needs jail time.

Air Force takes 'full responsibility' for Jennifer-Ruth Green sexual assault leak, GOP congressmen say


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 29, 2022)

Someone needs to explain why my service records can be released via FOIA, they're mine.  Not anyone elses.  That isn't to say there's anyone in there...it's pretty vanilla. 

But, Politico, as I've said many times.  They can do some great reporting and have some great reporters.  But for the most part, they're still that small liberal blog full of trash pandas. Whoever said that article was good to go needs to be in chains as well as the writer.

The D's do everything they can to cut the ankles out from all of the minorities running for House and Senate under the Republican banner.  Sadly, we won't be waking up from our coma.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 29, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Someone needs to explain why my service records can be released via FOIA, they're mine.  Not anyone elses.  That isn't to say there's anyone in there...it's pretty vanilla.
> 
> But, Politico, as I've said many times.  They can do some great reporting and have some great reporters.  But for the most part, they're still that small liberal blog full of trash pandas. Whoever said that article was good to go needs to be in chains as well as the writer.
> 
> The D's do everything they can to cut the ankles out from all of the minorities running for House and Senate under the Republican banner.  Sadly, we won't be waking up from our coma.


I think it's because it's a public record, and I'm not sure but there may be limits on what they can releases.

Well, what they're supposed to release, anyway.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 29, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I think it's because it's a public record, and I'm not sure but there may be limits on what they can releases.
> 
> Well, what they're supposed to release, anyway.


This would definitely fall outside of the FOIA limit for sure.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 18, 2022)

Interesting.  So a naval officer in Japan caused an accident that killed some Japanese citizens.  Apparently the accident was triggered by a "sudden bout of altitude sickness," not an action or inaction by the American driver.

However, he's now in a Japanese jail after being convicted in their courts over the accident.

...and the Navy, with the SECDEF's approval, is cutting off his pay.
Mike Lee calls out Defense Department for halting pay of Navy officer jailed in Japan

Now, I'm not big on supporting military members, especially officers, who are in jail for their own negligence or misconduct.  "Oh, you have a family?? Well, you should have thought of that before you did XXX.  No pay due for the next three months" or whatever.

But what happened in this case, as far as I can tell, would not have been a crime in the US, and the officer would not have been in Japan if the Navy hadn't sent him there.  I think it's reasonable that his pay continues during his confinement, given the circumstances.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 18, 2022)

Unless the Navy is going to court martial him or administratively separate him I'm really confused as to why his pay would be cut off.  Also, based on the article, we're talking a tragedy that would weigh on the man. But that's about it in the US.


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## Devildoc (Monday at 2:33 PM)

Not a Naval officer, but still....

California National Guard general fired after he allegedly made troops take his mom shopping


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## Gunz (Monday at 3:03 PM)

Air National Guard. But it's funny. I served 6 years in the NCANG and could tell you plenty of good ol boy officer stories.


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## AWP (Monday at 4:52 PM)

Devildoc said:


> Not a Naval officer, but still....
> 
> California National Guard general fired after he allegedly made troops take his mom shopping



And the fourth in five years or something stupid? And this guy didn't learn from them? 

What a dipshit...who will still retire as a 1 star.


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## DA SWO (Monday at 9:00 PM)

AWP said:


> And the fourth in five years or something stupid? And this guy didn't learn from them?
> 
> What a dipshit...who will still retire as a 1 star.


Family friend retired from the CA ARNG as a Col, turning down a promotion because of the buffoonery.


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## Cookie_ (Tuesday at 10:59 AM)

Seems like some craziness is going on over with 3rd SFG. Allegedly drug smuggling, human trafficking, and at least one NCO accused of pimping out underage girls. This comment is the craziest thing: 



> "This is what happens when there is no war, no direction, and an 18-month red cycle with no mission," a Special Forces soldier said. "So dudes are fucking around with young kids and the craziest drugs. All these lives ruined because people are just bored."



I've been so bored before I've had rock fights at the range, but I've never been so bored I've thought doing a bunch of drugs or getting involved in p*do stuff was a good idea.

CBS link to show at least the drug crackdown is confirmed as of now.


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## Marauder06 (Tuesday at 11:03 AM)

Cookie_ said:


> Seems like some craziness is going on over with 3rd SFG. Allegedly drug smuggling, human trafficking, and at least one NCO accused of pimping out underage girls. This comment is the craziest thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crap.  Can't believe I clicked on an article by Jack Murphy.


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## Devildoc (Tuesday at 11:08 AM)

Of course the deaths have been all over local news, but certainly not the rest of the stuff.  I will have to reach out; in my work I have working with several 18Ds in Alpha Co, 1st battalion.


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## Cookie_ (Tuesday at 11:08 AM)

Marauder06 said:


> Crap.  Can't believe I clicked on an article by Jack Murphy.


I honestly didn't see he was the author until after I had finished typing my post.

That's why I threw the CBS link up as well.


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## BloodStripe (Tuesday at 11:08 AM)

Any truth to this: https://www.audacy.com/connectingve...ial-ops-amidst-human-trafficking-drug-arrests

Pretty scathing if true.

“
CID and FBI agents investigated members of 3rd Special Forces Group and Delta Force who allegedly were involved in drug and in one instance human trafficking, according to nearly a dozen current and former military sources.

The arrests began Thursday, Jan. 5 and culminated with a 100% recall and accountability formation for 1st Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group yesterday.”

Also wonder if this story is connected:  Ft. Bragg soldier on $2.8M bond from kidnapping, rape charges in Cumberland County


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## Ooh-Rah (Tuesday at 11:22 AM)

BloodStripe said:


> Any truth to this: https://www.audacy.com/connectingve...ial-ops-amidst-human-trafficking-drug-arrests
> 
> Pretty scathing if true.
> 
> ...


Dude I just saw that a few days ago; Googling shows the only current stories by Jack Murphy of SOFREP…. I don’t know what to think about that dude, but perception is that he sure likes to air SOF’s dirty laundry.


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## Devildoc (Tuesday at 11:23 AM)

Parallel threads in 'military misconduct.'


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## Ooh-Rah (Tuesday at 11:28 AM)

Devildoc said:


> Parallel threads in 'military misconduct.'


All merged into this thread for now; if this story turns into ‘something’ we can always restart a dedicated thread on the topic.
@BloodStripe (FYI)


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## ThunderHorse (Tuesday at 11:41 AM)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude I just saw that a few days ago; Googling shows the only current stories by Jack Murphy of SOFREP…. I don’t know what to think about that dude, but perception is that he sure likes to air SOF’s dirty laundry.



Well somebody has to do it...CBS article was written by someone else.  The WRAL story just looks like a staff report recap of the video segment.


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## Devildoc (Tuesday at 11:46 AM)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well somebody has to do it...CBS article was written by someone else.  The WRAL story just looks like a staff report recap of the video segment.



WRAL is out of Raleigh, and the biggest TV market in the state aside from Charlotte.  But the reporters are sloppy and really get a lot of their stuff from 'the wire', other outlets, or frame stories off videos.  Locals say WRAL means "We Report All Lies."


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## Gunz (Tuesday at 12:21 PM)

Devildoc said:


> WRAL is out of Raleigh...Locals say WRAL means "We Report All Lies."



WBTV in Charlotte: "We Bullshit The Viewers."


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## AWP (Tuesday at 1:04 PM)

War on or not you can’t blame illegal activity due to boredom. Boredom doesn’t make you commit crimes, boredom has you taking up BASE jumping or some type of hobby. “Shit, I’m bored. Think I’ll try sex trafficking to keep me occupied.”


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## Topkick (Tuesday at 1:08 PM)

AWP said:


> Shit, I’m bored. Think I’ll try sex


Maybe just stop here?


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## Ooh-Rah (Tuesday at 1:31 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> But what happened in this case, as far as I can tell, would not have been a crime in the US, and the officer would not have been in Japan if the Navy hadn't sent him there


For the three years I was in Okinawa, we were always reminded that, as far as Okinawa was concerned, “we“ were automatically at fault for any trouble that may have happened in town because if we hadn’t been there, we would not have gotten into the issue.

We were warned so many times that I still remember it, don’t get picked up by the JPs, because if you do, you might spend the next 20 years in a Japanese rice prison and there’s nothing we can do to get you out.


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## ThunderHorse (Tuesday at 2:26 PM)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For the three years I was in Okinawa, we were always reminded that, as far as Okinawa was concerned, “we“ were automatically at fault for any trouble that may have happened in town because if we hadn’t been there, we would not have gotten into the issue.
> 
> We were warned so many times that I still remember it, don’t get picked up by the JPs, because if you do, you might spend the next 20 years in a Japanese rice prison and there’s nothing we can do to get you out.


There's a few episodes of JAG on that.


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## Devildoc (Yesterday at 2:19 PM)

Because the Marines want to get in on the punishment train too...

Marine colonel relieved of command amid investigation into ACV mishap


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## Gunz (Yesterday at 3:14 PM)

Devildoc said:


> Because the Marines want to get in on the punishment train too...
> 
> Marine colonel relieved of command amid investigation into ACV mishap



This is the 4.5-million dollar per unit vehicle that the Corps settled for when the 22-million dollar per unit vehicle EFV was shitcanned. And the Marine Corps did open-ocean testing of these on flat-calm days. So you've got a way-cheaper vehicle that has trouble staying upright when there's a significant chop. 

I have a pretty good idea that the Colonel's ass is in the sling because he authorized training on a day when surf was up. That...or maybe he's just  a convenient scapegoat.


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