# Coasties Begin BUD/S



## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 25, 2009)

Pretty interesting. I heard about the announcement to allow USCG types to go to BUD/S back in August, and it looks like it has finally happened.  It sucks the one enlisted dude didn't make the cut though.

http://www.shadowspear.com/special_operations_news/1298.html


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## RackMaster (Mar 25, 2009)

That is interesting and if they pass would be an excellent asset to the USCG.  Is the USCG not considered an active service?  If so, why have they not been allowed entry until now?  Do they do the same level of training as any other service or is it different?


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 25, 2009)

The USCG is active service, but an entirely different branch.  I think it would have been like sending an Army guy to BUD/S.   I'm not entirely sure about the logic behind it, since  if they pass BUD/s and the rest of the selection process, they go to a team for several years.  I'm not sure if after that point, they would go back to their day jobs on the Cutter?  I guess it would make more sense to send them to a tactical unit in the USCG afterwards, but who knows what the overall intention may be.



> ALCOAST 367/08
> COMDTNOTE 1000
> SUBJ: ASSIGNMENT OF COAST GUARD PERSONNEL TO TRAIN AND SERVE WITH U.S. NAVY NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE (SEALS)
> 1. I AM PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE I RECENTLY SIGNED A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING (MOU) WITH THE U.S. NAVY AND THE U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND THAT WILL ALLOW COAST GUARD PERSONNEL TO TRAIN AND SERVE IN THE U.S. NAVY NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE COMMUNITY, SPECIFICALLY AS U.S. NAVY SEALS. THIS MOU IS THE CULMINATION OF A PROCESS STARTED IN JULY 2007 AND WILL ALLOW SELECTED COAST GUARD PERSONNEL TO BE ASSIGNED TO TRAINING AND DUTY AS A NAVY SEAL TO SUPPLEMENT U.S. NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE FORCES. IN ADDITION TO PROVIDING CAPABILITY TO THE NAVY AND SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND, THIS PROGRAM WILL PROVIDE COAST GUARD PERSONNEL THE OPPORTUNITY TO GAIN EXPERIENCE IN THE PLANNING, TRAINING AND EXECUTION OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS.
> ...


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## RackMaster (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks Boon.

Perhaps they are trying to enhance the tactical units in the USCG, maybe create their own team environment.  Give these guys the training and experience with the real teams, then draw them back as cadre for their own.

Either that or they are just trying to find extra bodies to fill slots... but I'm sure there are plenty of guys in the Navy waiting for a chance to get in there.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 25, 2009)

I think that would be a good thing.  If they sent them to a non-tactical position on a ship, then I think it would be a waste of time.  But who knows.


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## RackMaster (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't think it would be the first time any service wasted a highly trained individual on a thumb up your ass position.


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## AWP (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't see the utility in it, but good luck to those guys.


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## JBS (Mar 25, 2009)

Wow.  Even though it is the opportunity of a lifetime for the Coast Guard Officers, I bet the SEAL's hate this.

I think its a bad idea.

If the Coast Guard wants to gain first hand knowledge from elite units, they should have SEALs get TAD'd to whatever Coast Guard unit needs those skills, and do the training on site.  Either that, or they should re-think the mission they're trying to give to the Coast Guard, and get some SEAL's, Rangers or other SOF unit to do the mission.  

Why does a Coast Guard unit need Amphibious reconaissance/small unit combatives capabilities?

But, hey, what do I know?


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't think it is a bad thing per say, after all, they are actually going through the selection process/training vice just being attached to a team.  However, I still wonder "why?"


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## JBS (Mar 25, 2009)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> I don't think it is a bad thing per say, after all, they are actually going through the selection process/training vice just being attached to a team.  However, I still wonder "why?"



Do they rate a Trident if they complete BUDs?


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## 104TN (Mar 25, 2009)

From what I understand most of the guys come from the TACLET community so some of the skills would definitely be of benefit to them.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 25, 2009)

No, they have to complete the entire process, which they will do as well. After BUD/S and all the other happy training afterwards they are on probation, and after that they are awarded the Trident.


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## formerBrat (Mar 25, 2009)

*FWIW*

Found this on the net, when I was looking this up... and old article from late last year about this...however, I highlighted something of interest possibly. Of course this information could have changed by now.( the highlighted part that is )

https://navyseals.com/12-coasties-being-considered-seal-training



> 12 Coasties being considered for SEAL training
> Posted October 31st, 2008 in NavySEALs.com Intel
> Source: Amy McCullough, Army Times
> Of the 12 remaining candidates Coast Guard and Navy officials hope to select as many qualified candidates as possible to go through Navy SEAL training by the end of next week, said a Deployable Operations Group spokesman. The move would be a first for the Coast Guard.
> ...




I found this interesting, as from what I've read, it's being pushed partly (including NSW) by USCG's DOG (deployable operations group) which was created I guess to have all their MAST/TACLET's under one umbrella? If this is the case it would seem that it would augment their boarding and tactical skills...but when you read the highlighed part stating that they wouldn't have to return to the CG after their 5-7 year stent....what good does that do for the CG and DOG?


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## Scotth (Mar 30, 2009)

This policy seems to benefit the Navy much more the CG by giving them a bigger recruiting pool.  I'm glad to see them go through the training and then deploy with a team because it would have been a waste of training otherwise to just do BUD/S and then go back to the CG.  Sure the selection and training process is great but there would be a lot more effective and efficient ways to train up CG personal in boat clearing methods then having a handful of people going through BUD/S.  Not to mention taking a training slot from a potential Seal Team recruit.


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## hooyah (Apr 14, 2009)

the coast guard is under the control of the navy when the us is in a time of war but otherwise it is under homeland security


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## JimMCpog (Apr 21, 2009)

formerBrat said:


> Found this on the net, when I was looking this up... and old article from late last year about this...however, I highlighted something of interest possibly. Of course this information could have changed by now.( the highlighted part that is )
> 
> https://navyseals.com/12-coasties-being-considered-seal-training
> 
> ...




That might have been what they were briefed on, that they wanted men who understood they would provide the "seed corn" for an improved DOG down the road. 5-7 years will be beyond the contract of a Coast Guard Officer (only the 4 Officers passed the USCG selection) so he would be unable to retain them anyway. But they could change their minds after 5-7 years with a SEAL team. They might never come back. It seems that there would be better ways to do an exchange program.


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## formerBrat (Aug 6, 2009)

Update on this from Military.com

http://www.military.com/news/article/three-coastguardsmen-left-in-seal-quest.html



> Three Coastguardsmen Left in SEAL Quest
> August 06, 2009
> Military.com|by Christian Lowe
> 
> ...


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## Boondocksaint375 (Sep 7, 2009)

*Coast Guardsmen are 1st to ever graduate BUD/S*


Two Coast Guardsmen became the first in their service to graduate from the Navy’s Basic Underwater Demolition/SEALs training Thursday.

The graduates, whose names have not been released, have been training since January. They still must go through another six months of training before they officially become SEALs, said Lt. Fred Martin, a spokesman for the Naval Special Warfare Center at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado, Calif. Up next: parachute training, the Junior Officer Training Course and the final SEAL qualification training, which includes cold-weather training in Kodiak, Alaska.

Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Thad Allen wrote proudly about the graduates in his blog.
“Two Guardians made history today,” he said. “While they still have an intensive training program to complete before pinning on their Tridents in the spring, this is an impressive accomplishment, and we should all be very proud of our shipmates and their performance representing the U.S. Coast Guard amongst the elite Navy SEALs.”

One of the Coast Guardsman graduated as the class officer in charge —the senior ranking member of the class, Martin said.

“They still have a ways to go, but they have handled themselves very well,” Martin said.
The Coast Guard originally sent four service members to training, but one dropped out and another was injured before the dreaded Hell Week began. He has since recovered and will start training with a new class next week, Martin said.

The Coast Guard received 16 applications this year from service members who want to join a SEAL class, Allen wrote. The applications will be reviewed, and if the candidates meet the Navy admission guidelines, they will be sent for training next year.


http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/09/coastguard_buds_090309w/


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## CBTech (Sep 7, 2009)

Bravo Zulu.


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## KBar666 (Sep 11, 2009)

Forgive me for my ingnorance,but being that I'm way on the outside looking in I have to ask.

Whats the reason for either service doing this?

I guess what I'm asking is what exactly do they plan to get out of coast guard people being trained for special operations.


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## JimMCpog (Dec 24, 2009)

A larger pool of applicants? Plus if the Coast Guard is already screening the applicants, mostly from Taclet and Deployable Operations Group, then they are probably getting candidates with a higher chance of success.*
Coast Guard gets to integrate even closer with Navy and Marine Corps after that Sea Service strategy memorandum from 2005-2006 and it may even be a recruiting draw for type A folks! Not that the Coast Guard is hurting for numbers, but all the services are snapping after the same small pool of men, so even 1 more candidate is probably worth it.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 24, 2009)

I can’t see how Coast Guardsman serving 7 years on a team after becoming a fully trained SEAL is a benefit to the USCG. I could see them going through the training and serving 3 to 4 years and then returning as SME’s to the USCG, but 7 fucking years? You figure roughly 6 months of USCG training, a year or two in the USCG before you are eligible for the new “SEAL exchange program” 2 more years in training and then 7 years on a team… That is around 10 years before the USCG gets any return on their end of the deal… Not only that, but who in the fuck would want to leave a SEAL team to go back to the USCG?

I see dudes serving their time and then if and when the USCG tries to pull them back, these SEAL trained coast guardsman will get out and reenlist in the Navy.

If they could get them back after 3 to 4 years and have an exchange program where SEAL’s spend time on a USCG team (MSSRT or whatever it is) and that way they get SME’s now and they also have guys going through the whole process so that eventually they will retain their own SME’s.

As for the “why does the USCG need a SEAL capability” It was my understanding that the USCG is to form a maritime counter terrorism unit, that would act as not only a military capability CONUS/OCONUS, but also as a CT unit for law enforcement under the DHS umbrella. 

It would make sense to have a SEAL capability with that mission, I am just wondering if they will be getting involved with DEVGROUP or if they will only be involved with regular SEAL teams…


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## DA SWO (Dec 24, 2009)

I think the folks in charge may have a good reason for this.  I am thinking the CG members could be designated as an LEDET for an op, and assist in a take down without having the defense lawyers scream Posse Comitas violation.

Either way, we have two additionl SEALs, can't beat that.


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## MSRTJoe (Dec 26, 2009)

I was an original member of the MSRT. We got our training from retired SEALs at Blackwater and CACI, which consited mostly of CQB and ship-boarding techniques similar to Phase III training. Ever since we started the program in 2004, we were trying to get into BUD/S. The idea was to get the MSRT into SOCOM so that we could be another asset to that command and get the opportunity to play. The benefit of the Coast Guard being a part of it is avoiding the Posse Commitaus issue. I think this is all part of the proccess of playing nice and winning acceptance into the community. The MSRT and the DOG is still fighting for respect amongst old-school command. But Commandant Allen loves it!


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## JBS (Dec 26, 2009)

It's great to have more highly trained men, no matter what branch they are in.  I'm all for a competent and highly capable Coast Guard, but we need to stop trying to avoid or bypass the inconvenience caused by the pesky little  "Posse Comitatus issue".


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## Tac2D (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't understand why some people still have their panties in a wad over this issue still.  The CG is not the CG of old, and needs a highly trained and capable CT/HRT unit to fill in the gaps where the FBI or SEALS can't.  Contrary to popular belief, the SEALS cannot be used for any and every mission on the water.  The CG is stepping up it's game and doing what it needs to do to bring itself up to speed with the rest of the services.  And yes, Posse Comitatus is pesky but it's there for a reason, so we do what we can to work around it.  It's a great program for both services. Oh, and FYI one of the Coastie's set the new record for the 14-mile run...just thought I would throw that in there.


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## 0699 (Jan 11, 2010)

Tac2D said:


> I don't understand why some people still have their panties in a wad over this issue still.  The CG is not the CG of old, and *needs a highly trained and capable CT/HRT unit to fill in the gaps where the FBI or SEALS can't*.  Contrary to popular belief, the SEALS cannot be used for any and every mission on the water.  The CG is stepping up it's game and doing what it needs to do to bring itself up to speed with the rest of the services.  And yes, Posse Comitatus is pesky but it's there for a reason, so we do what we can to work around it.  It's a great program for both services. Oh, and FYI one of the Coastie's set the new record for the 14-mile run...just thought I would throw that in there.


 
Examples?  I can't think of any...

And I don't know that I'd call Posse Comitatus "pesky".  IMO it's the law of the land for a reason; I for one don't want to see DOD enforcing civilian laws.


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## Diesel_Actual (May 21, 2010)

It doesn't make any sense for this (CG SEALs) unless the USCG creates a special unit, Who's gonna join the Coast Guard to be a SEAL, I can understand wanting to pull guys from the current USCG Rescue Swimmer community for NSW, but if a guy wants to be a SEAL, why go through the CG first??  It would be really appealing if they establish a USCG SEAL state-side team, that didn't deploy overseas.


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## Centermass (May 22, 2010)

Diesel_Actual said:


> It doesn't make any sense for this (CG SEALs) unless the USCG creates a special unit, Who's gonna join the Coast Guard to be a SEAL, I can understand wanting to pull guys from the current USCG Rescue Swimmer community for NSW, but if a guy wants to be a SEAL, why go through the CG first??  It would be really appealing if they establish a USCG SEAL state-side team, that didn't deploy overseas.



SOWT explained it here: 



SOWT said:


> I think the folks in charge may have a good reason for this.  I am thinking the CG members could be designated as an LEDET for an op, and assist in a take down without having the defense lawyers scream Posse Comitatus (sp) violation.


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## car (May 22, 2010)

KBar666 said:


> Forgive me for my ingnorance,but being that I'm way on the outside looking in I have to ask.
> 
> Whats the reason for either service doing this?
> 
> I guess what I'm asking is what exactly do they plan to get out of coast guard people being trained for special operations.



In the late 80's - early 90's we sent a lot of guys from the 82nd (and other units) to Ranger school. There was no intention of sending them on to the Regiment, but to bring them back to their conventional units and teach the skills that they learned at Ranger school. 

I'll never forget walking into the 82nd's MI battalion for the first  time and being amazed at how many Ranger tabs I saw - on the shoulders of MI guys! Even after they stopped letting non-combat arms guys go to Ranger school, some of the Infantry Bn commanders down the street gave up slots to our guys because they knew what our guys brought to the table, and how the skills learned at Ranger school enhanced their ability to support them. I heard one Brigade commander tell my Battalion commander, "Hell, Vic, with what your folks bring to the fight, we can make them grunts for a few weeks....."

Maybe that's part of the thinking behind sending Guardians to BUDS


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## Diesel_Actual (May 22, 2010)

:uhhosse Comitatus Act is very easily bypassed by the Insurrection Act.
If you guys recall, during G.W.'s second term, he basically did away with Posse Comitatus all together and rewrote the Insurrection Act of 1807 which was snuck into law in the 2007 Defense Appropriations Bill, the changes were repelled in 2008, but the Insurrection Act still reads,
§ 333. Interference with State and Federal law
_
The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

    (1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

    (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. _
:doh:

*Also it should be noted that any group affiliated with JSOC is exempt from Posse Comitatus, and can essentially operate outside any legal constraints or consequences*


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## Dame (May 27, 2010)

0699 said:


> Examples?  I can't think of any...


 
Drug runners.


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## 0699 (May 27, 2010)

lantram said:


> Drug runners.


 
On the high seas?  Why the hell would you try to board drug runners that won't surrender peacefully?  Why risk the lives of your own men?

Blow them out of the water with heavy gunfire...

Next.


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## Dame (May 27, 2010)

0699 said:


> Blow them out of the water with heavy gunfire...
> 
> Next.



Sounds like more fun your way.  But I think the DOGs and MSSTs have to try capturing the drug runners/pirates/terrorists first.


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## 0699 (May 27, 2010)

lantram said:


> Sounds like more fun your way.  But I think the DOGs and MSSTs *have to try capturing the drug runners/pirates/terrorists first*.


 
Nope.  Not true.  Refuse to follow orders, you can be blown out of the water.

Don't confuse "allowed" with "desire".  There is a big push to develop a CT capability that may or may not be needed.  Beyond PC, why on earth would you put guys over the rail on a known threat instead of just blowing them out of the water?  I'll give you a hint... CT is sexy and pays big bucks. 

Unless it's an IHR (and hell, EVERYONE can do IHR...) it will be HRT or a a certain Navy unit that does the hard-core CT at-sea takedown.  Believing anything else is just misguided.


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## Dame (May 27, 2010)

0699 said:


> Nope.  Not true.  Refuse to follow orders, you can be blown out of the water.
> 
> Don't confuse "allowed" with "desire".  There is a big push to develop a CT capability that may or may not be needed.  Beyond PC, why on earth would you put guys over the rail on a known threat instead of just blowing them out of the water?  I'll give you a hint... CT is sexy and pays big bucks.
> 
> Unless it's an IHR (and hell, EVERYONE can do IHR...) it will be HRT or a a certain Navy unit that does the hard-core CT at-sea takedown.  Believing anything else is just misguided.


 
I have learned to never believe anything that wasn't verified here first.  Preferably by 0699.


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