# ROTC Question



## Kheenbish (Jan 23, 2014)

My wife asked me to speak to her little brother about ROTC for the Army, but im an AF guy and only have little info about the officer route. Any quick tips I can get about how to pick a job or anything would help (My wife basically doesn't want him to sign for x amount of time and be in a job he hates) . Thank you.


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## enceladus (Jan 23, 2014)

This is very anecdotal, but....A few of the LTs in my Guard unit did SMP (you enlist in the NG, go to BCT/AIT, skip the first 2 years of ROTC, and simultaneously do ROTC MS III and IV/ drill with a NG unit) and majored in Engineering, and were offered AD EN, but chose to stay with the NG.  GPA, choice of major, PT scores, etc put you on an OML at graduation to determine which component you are eligible for.  I believe OML rank also determines branch assignment.


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## Kheenbish (Jan 23, 2014)

Hmm okay, so basically how well you do in getting your degree/what the degree is for is the type of jobs offered to you when you graduate? Trying to get this right, as he thinks he finishes any degree and then picks any job he wants. He is looking at right now a six year commitment to the Army reserves after graduation.


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## enceladus (Jan 23, 2014)

Right, the first hurdle is to get high enough on the OML to have the opportunity to go AD.  Then, depending where you fall on the OML, the needs of the Army and your preferences will dictate branch assignment. 

Here's an article that does a good job summarizing the process:



> "Cadets choose between active duty, Army Reserves and the Army National Guard for their profession. However, they are also chosen for their career based on their rank in the “Order of Merit” List. The “Order of Merit” List places every cadet across the nation on a list in relation to other cadets based on academic and leadership abilities....“Within the choice to go active duty, cadets rank their job preferences from 1-20. Infantry officer and Aviation officer slots are the most competitive and often fall in at no. 1 and no. 2 each year. The Army then fills accordingly."



http://www.tcu360.com/campus/2012/04/15323.rotc-cadets-choose-military-path-upon-graduation


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## AWP (Jan 23, 2014)

One thought is to look at the Branch Detail program where you spend your first 3-4 years in a combat arms job before going over to something like Intel or Signal.

OML rules all in ROTC. Unless things have changed, your degree doesn't matter but for a few things like certain engineering jobs. For example, I know aviators with degrees in history or whatever. GPA factors into the OML.

AF officers, I'll use Comm as an example, like for their guys and gals to have a relevant degree. CS, MIS, Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering. Other branches in the AF may not matter, but I have yet to meet an AF Comm officer without some type of technical degree. The Army DOES NOT have this worry.

@Marauder06 is an ROTC grad and some of these topics are discussed elsewhere on the board.  (hint, hint)


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## DAVE101 (Jan 23, 2014)

Backing up what Freefalling said, the degree is irrelevant. A 4.0 in General Studies beats a 3.9 double major in Biology and Economics. Although GPA is the largest portion of determining the Order of Merit List, many other things like physical fitness scores factor is as well.


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## 0699 (Jan 23, 2014)

Didn't the deadline for application just pass?


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## Kheenbish (Jan 24, 2014)

Thank you all for the quick information.



Freefalling said:


> @Marauder06 is an ROTC grad and some of these topics are discussed elsewhere on the board.  (hint, hint)


 
Hmm I think he is trying to tell me something....Search Function ! Sorry about that, shouldn't of jumped the gun and done some research first.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2014)

One's degree has very little to do with one's branch selection, unless you're trying for something like an ed delay for med school.

Study what you like, because one day you won't be in the Army anymore and you may need to fall back on that degree.  Also, study something you can get good  grades in, because as @Freefalling  noted, the OML (order of merit list) is everything, and a good portion of the OML is your GPA.


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## Poetic_Mind (Jan 24, 2014)

@Kheenbish

Degree for the Army ROTC program doesn't make a difference, aside from those in what are called STEM degrees (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math). STEM offers those cadets special scholarships as there is a higher need for individuals with those degrees as well as an increase in Order of Merit List points during accessions the third year. for Science and Math majors currently it's a .5 increase on the OML point totals and a 1 point increase for Engineering and certain Technology related degrees. It's hard to tell what that really means, but relative to the OML that usually turns out to be a lot as a mere point can make the difference of over 200 other cadets in the program during accessions.

As for other degrees, there really isn't much difference. Another I can say makes a difference on the OML is only any Foreign language related degree because foreign languages get up to 2-something points overall but that's only because it's counted for each semester a FL class is taken, so the total compounds over 4 years.

Some branches do indeed reserve a certain amount of slots for people with certain degrees. I don't know the percentages exactly, but from FY13 I do know there was 50% slots reserved in Engineering for Engineering majors and 50% reserved in Signal for a variety of different majors, such as MIS. I don't know that list, but the number of majors for that was pretty substantial. Others that reserve 50% slots for certain majors are Chemical and Ordinance. 

But, as others have said, the OML, which accounts for a lot of different things, determines what you ultimately get in the end. If you google "OML and Branching for FY14" you'll see how the entire accessions plays into the OML. It's very easy stuff to find.

I did just recently finish Army ROTC and commission last May. If you have any specific questions about anything recent, we can chat over Private Message.


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## Draneol (Feb 1, 2014)

SO I have a question, would rather not create an entirely new thread considering most of the stuff is already in here, with the conversation on-going, so I will be done with my ATA (Associates in Technical Arts) in Composites Manufacturing and Repair, but will also be (hopefully if accepted via my portfolio when I'm done) transferring into the Electronics or Mechanical Engineering programs at UW or CWU. If I'm following correctly, would it be possible to "skip" the first two years of ROTC and go right into it for the final two years, or do you have to already be in the National Guard? Is there an MOS requirement that has to be met?

Is it possible to get into a unit that is R&D focused? Or are those all just civilian contractors? If not, are there positions as Army Officers that actually allow them to utilize their degrees for things in say the many Engineering disciplines? Or are they restricted in what they can, and cannot do? I know that my core classes deal with army officers at JBLM, but they aren't low ranked by any means, or entry level officers. At least I don't think they are after looking at army pay tables for their rank titles. 

Will an Engineer Officer with a degree focus in Mechanical, or Electrical/Electronic Engineering really have much of a purpose in a construction battalion? Or are those just navy? Is it possible to get into an EOD as a low ranking officer? or do you have to "do your time"? Would learning a foreign language boost chances of becoming an Officer? my current school offers 6 quarters of Russian, 7 quarters of Spanish, 6 quarters of french, and 8 quarters of Farsi with 6 quarters of Pashtu. Would it be worth taking the extra time to take the language classes?


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## Draneol (Feb 1, 2014)

Poetic_Mind said:


> @Kheenbish
> 
> Degree for the Army ROTC program doesn't make a difference, aside from those in what are called STEM degrees (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math). STEM offers those cadets special scholarships as there is a higher need for individuals with those degrees as well as an increase in Order of Merit List points during accessions the third year. for Science and Math majors currently it's a .5 increase on the OML point totals and a 1 point increase for Engineering and certain Technology related degrees. It's hard to tell what that really means, but relative to the OML that usually turns out to be a lot as a mere point can make the difference of over 200 other cadets in the program during accessions.
> 
> ...



Being the bookworm that I am, I looked into Ordnance Corps which is where EOD would fall under, but it says by the time the Lieutenants become Captains, they are mixed with Quartermaster Corps, and Transportation Corps Officers? And then Engineer Officers stay as Engineer Officers until the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, where they combine with the Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Infantry, and Armor Officers? but then upon continued reading, majority of Officers outside of Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Chemical Corps, and Air Defense Artillery, are "Branch Detailed" into these branches typically for a couple years before attending the Captains career course of their branch? If this is true, why not just branch the Officers into the detailed branch? Not that I would have a problem with that at all, don't mistake what I'm saying.

I'm just curious mainly, I've been trying to find information of Officers in Research and Development positions, but aside from the red tape that comes up, I think it would be safe to assume none are open for low ranked Officers?


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## Totentanz (Feb 1, 2014)

Draneol said:


> Will an Engineer Officer with a degree focus in Mechanical, or Electrical/Electronic Engineering really have much of a purpose in a construction battalion?



There are plenty of engineer officers with engineering degrees serving in these units, and all absolutely have a purpose.  As a lieutenant (same pretty well applies to captains as well), you will have one of two purposes in a construction BN, either

a) to provide the best  leadership possible to a platoon of engineer soldiers or
b) be the best staff officer possible to facilitate the execution of the battalion commander's intent for your given mission

Odds are, (if you successfully pass ROTC or OCS, and become an engineer) you'll have the chance to do both, possibly multiple times.


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## Ronnoc (Feb 1, 2014)

Draneol said:


> SO I have a question, would rather not create an entirely new thread considering most of the stuff is already in here, with the conversation on-going, so I will be done with my ATA (Associates in Technical Arts) in Composites Manufacturing and Repair, but will also be (hopefully if accepted via my portfolio when I'm done) transferring into the Electronics or Mechanical Engineering programs at UW or CWU. If I'm following correctly, would it be possible to "skip" the first two years of ROTC and go right into it for the final two years, or do you have to already be in the National Guard? Is there an MOS requirement that has to be met?



I just completed the exact entrance process you have outlined to get into ROTC. In order to come into the program as a MSIII (your third year) and you are non-prior service, you will have to go to Ft. Knox and complete Leader's Training Course. If you are around any schools with AROTC I would suggest going in and making an appointment with their enrollment officer to discuss all available options, as there are many pathways to take and lots of funds floating around for different circumstances (this is pertaining to scholarships etc.).

Also, I have heard they may be bringing back the 5K bonus check for completion of LTC and contracting into the AROTC program. Additionally, there are no Airborne/Air Assault slots allocated during LTC, which someone might lead you to believe.. :wall:


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## Poetic_Mind (Feb 1, 2014)

Draneol said:


> Being the bookworm that I am, I looked into Ordnance Corps which is where EOD would fall under, but it says by the time the Lieutenants become Captains, they are mixed with Quartermaster Corps, and Transportation Corps Officers? And then Engineer Officers stay as Engineer Officers until the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, where they combine with the Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Infantry, and Armor Officers? but then upon continued reading, majority of Officers outside of Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Chemical Corps, and Air Defense Artillery, are "Branch Detailed" into these branches typically for a couple years before attending the Captains career course of their branch? If this is true, why not just branch the Officers into the detailed branch? Not that I would have a problem with that at all, don't mistake what I'm saying.
> 
> I'm just curious mainly, I've been trying to find information of Officers in Research and Development positions, but aside from the red tape that comes up, I think it would be safe to assume none are open for low ranked Officers?



Okay, I'm going to try to grasp what you're trying to ask. You are right, at some point in their careers, as Captains, Ordinance, Quartermaster, and Transportation meld into one branch--Logistics. I only can speak from experience here, but from what the Officers in our Brigade's Support Battalion told me, at least as a LT, just because one person is Ordinance, or Transpo, doesn't mean they'll actually do that. Even early on in their careers, they still cross over into each other's jobs, depending on what that particular unit needs at the time. I only can say this for the 75th FiB, 100th BSB. I cannot say that's how it's usually done.

Now, I am a little confused about your next statement. I can't say much for Engineers, but all of these other branches are still branch-specific up to LTC, unless I'm missing something here. Again, that's more out of my lane, but we have senior Officers here that can answer that. I'm just aware there is ILE, for all new field-grade Officers, so there is a point where they all go to the same school; however, all of the senior Officers I personally know stayed within their branches--outside of one or two that moved to a functional area.

Now, the issue with Branch Detail. I think it's stretching it to say the majority of Officers are detailed into these branches. For example, my class at FA-BOLC, almost 1/3 were Branch Detailed, not really a majority. Yes, lots of them were, but not most of them. The whole purpose of Branch Detail is to put LTs in branches that are considered "bottom-heavy", which is all of the Combat Arms. There is more of a need for LTs in those branches to fill PL spots. The reason they later go to CCC with their Basic Branch, for me MI, is because a lot of these Support/Combat Support branches are "top-heavy". There is more of a need for senior officers to fill certain spots. It's also considered a way for "Needs of the Army" to cross with "Career Satisfaction".

And not really. R & D is definitely something you won't see as a junior Officer. 

V/R,
PM


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## DAVE101 (Feb 1, 2014)

Draneol said:


> ..would it be possible to "skip" the first two years of ROTC and go right into it for the final two years, or do you have to already be in the National Guard?


Yes, if you have completed Basic Training at some point, you get credit for the first two years. 

Unless your program is only two years, I'd suggest you not skip unless you are E-5 or above or have infantry experience. Not saying that army ROTC is "hard" but there is definitely a system and knowing it places you much higher competitively. We've had a guy from 3/75 and someone from group go through from the beginning, and they still picked things up from others as they progressed.


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## Totentanz (Feb 1, 2014)

Some light reading for those curious about officer career paths: DA PAM 600-3


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## 0699 (Feb 1, 2014)

Draneol said:


> I'm just curious mainly, *I've been trying to find information of Officers in Research and Development positions, but aside from the red tape that comes up, I think it would be safe to assume none are open for low ranked Officers*?


 
A 2nd LT in an R&D position would be like a PFC thinking the First Sergeant wants his input.


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## Poetic_Mind (Feb 1, 2014)

Totentanz said:


> Some light reading for those curious about officer career paths: DA PAM 600-3



I could have saved myself some typing by just linking that. :wall:


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2014)

Poetic_Mind said:


> I could have saved myself some typing by just linking that. :wall:



But then I would have followed the link and read through it myself, you saved me the trouble.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 2, 2014)

I always tell the cadets here that there are no "bad" branches, only bad officers.  While some branches tend to attract "better" (insert your own definition of "better" here) officers, there are no guarantees.  I started off with an Infantry branch detail, and had two of the worst pieces of shit field grades that anyone ever had to suffer under as a battalion commander and XO.  And this was in a relatively high-speed conventional unit:  the 101st.  My wife started off with a "crappy" assignment to the schoolhouse, and ended up working for an incredible command team, complete with an NCO that I desperately tried to get as my First Sergeant and then Sergeant Major.  Between my wife and me, which of the two of us do you think wanted to get out after that first duty station?

People are what makes or breaks an officer's career.  If you're in a job with good people, you'll have a good assignment.  The opposite is also true, no matter what branch you're in.  I'm specifically including SOF career fields here as well.

Whatever branch you get, you be the best lieutenant that branch has ever seen.  Whatever first post you get, you be the best lieutenant on that post.  You focus on people, you focus on accomplishing the mission, and good things will come.  

I know.


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## AWP (Feb 4, 2014)

I created a new thread for the discussion of boats and trucks and things and stuff.


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