# TACP Questions



## G-RAT (May 10, 2016)

My son is leaving in a month for basic and then the TACP pipeline. He still may go the CCT route, but needs to shave a few seconds off his run. I think he prefers the TACP route anyway. I know the answers to most of my questions are out there but a lot of the info seems to be dated and sometimes conflicting. 

For those that have recently gone through the process is there a list of items that you wish you had with you once indoc started? I know that you purposely don’t bring much to basic so I want my son to have a box of stuff ready to get shipped out. Anything that you wish you had or found yourself scrambling to get like boots, socks, running shoes, etc.  Are the boots issued sufficient? If not is there a certain type that you recommend? Any thoughts are welcome.

As part of the recruiting pitch they make it seem like subsequent training is almost a given. I’m guessing that’s not really the case. At what point does extra training start to become available? After 3-4 years?

Although my son doesn’t even consider this a possibility, is there a typical route for people that wash out? I know that I keep reading Security Forces. His ASVAB scores were pretty high but does that factor in or is it just the needs of the A. F. at that particular time? I think he’ll do fine. He’s about to graduate from college so he’s a little older and very fit. But when you read 50+% failure rate you need to at least consider it. His view, which I admire, is that he has made a commitment and he will give it 100% however things work out. 

Lastly, he joined wanting to be a CCT and was swayed to TACP. Any words of wisdom on one vs the other?

Thank you for any and all responses!


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## CDG (May 10, 2016)

The TACP failure rate is historically 70%, with fluctuations up closer to 80%.  If that scares him, then it's not the place for him.  CCT vs TACP has been discussed here before.

As far as items, the USAF will provide him with everything he needs to complete training.  If you want to send something, send morale food for him to chow on during weekends.  Some subsequent training is a given, and some has to be earned.  What, specifically, are you asking about?

Lastly, why isn't your son on here asking these questions?


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## G-RAT (May 10, 2016)

CDG said:


> The TACP failure rate is historically 70%, with fluctuations up closer to 80%.  If that scares him, then it's not the place for him.  CCT vs TACP has been discussed here before.
> 
> As far as items, the USAF will provide him with everything he needs to complete training.  If you want to send something, send morale food for him to chow on during weekends.  Some subsequent training is a given, and some has to be earned.  What, specifically, are you asking about?
> 
> Lastly, why isn't your son on here asking these questions?



I am not asking on his behalf. He is away at school and I am just interested. If you read my question, he has no fear of washing out. Looking at it through 50 year old eyes I think it's a valid question.

CDG- While I appreciate your response you snarkiness is not appreciated. I am not a 16 year old kid, but a 50 year old veteran. I prefaced my questions stating that I had found conflicting answers in the past. It was not due to a lack of effort. In your case, your effort was solely to be snarky and you barely addressed my questions.


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## AWP (May 10, 2016)

G-RAT said:


> I am not asking on his behalf. He is away at school and I am just interested. If you read my question, he has no fear of washing out. Looking at it through 50 year old eyes I think it's a valid question.
> 
> CDG- While I appreciate your response you snarkiness is not appreciated. I am not a 16 year old kid, but a 50 year old veteran. I prefaced my questions stating that I had found conflicting answers in the past. It was not due to a lack of effort. In your case, your effort was solely to be snarky and you barely addressed my questions.



"Snarkiness?" I went over his post 3 times and can't see any of what you describe. This?



CDG said:


> The TACP failure rate is historically 70%, with fluctuations up closer to 80%.  If that scares him, then it's not the place for him.



If that's the issue it doesn't even warrant a response. It is that slight and something your son will hear from...cadre, fellow airmen, many other vets, etc. That's an Alpha male world and something he'll hear again.


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## G-RAT (May 10, 2016)

I apologize if I misinterpreted. I took it as being taken to task. It was the end of the work day and I read more into it than was intended.

Starting over, If I may- Is basic jump school still a part of the standard training? I have read conflicting answers (not necessarily in this forum). As far as other training opportunities I have read references to Free fall and HALO and even Ranger school amongst others. Is there a typical offering or does it vary?

Again, I apologize for my poor reaction. I'm just a Dad interested in what his son is doing for the next  6 or so years of his life.


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## CDG (May 10, 2016)

G-RAT said:


> I apologize if I misinterpreted. I took it as being taken to task. It was the end of the work day and I read more into it than was intended.
> 
> Starting over, If I may- Is basic jump school still a part of the standard training? I have read conflicting answers (not necessarily in this forum). As far as other training opportunities I have read references to Free fall and HALO and even Ranger school amongst others. Is there a typical offering or does it vary?
> 
> Again, I apologize for my poor reaction. I'm just a Dad interested in what his son is doing for the next  6 or so years of his life.



No worries.  I assure you I wasn't being snarky.  Directness is a part of doing this job, and it carries over into other interactions.  If I wanted to be an asshole about it, it would be very clear.  I can appreciate your concern for your son, as my parents would have done the same.

Basic Airborne is not a given in the pipeline, although they are working to add it.  Some classes will get slots and give them to the top performers, and some classes will not get any slots.  If he goes to a unit that has a jump mission, his unit will send him to jump school.  If not, it's situation dependent and more competitive.

Freefall and HALO are the same thing.  TACPs do get HALO slots, although it's much more likely as a SOF TACP.  Ranger school is more common, but it is highly competitive.  We have a good reputation at that school, and it's because we carefully select and screen who will go.  Again, unit dependent.  Other schools commonly available to TACPs are Pathfinder, Air Assault, Mountain Warfare, SFBUC, SFAUC, Jungle Warfare, and Arctic Warfare. 

What is the conflicting information you have found/heard about TACP vs. CCT?


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## G-RAT (May 10, 2016)

CDG said:


> No worries.  I assure you I wasn't being snarky.  Directness is a part of doing this job, and it carries over into other interactions.  If I wanted to be an asshole about it, it would be very clear.  I can appreciate your concern for your son, as my parents would have done the same.
> 
> Basic Airborne is not a given in the pipeline, although they are working to add it.  Some classes will get slots and give them to the top performers, and some classes will not get any slots.  If he goes to a unit that has a jump mission, his unit will send him to jump school.  If not, it's situation dependent and more competitive.
> 
> ...



Thanks-

I’ve been all over the web. Some sites list SERE and basic jump school as training that all receive. Others state that jump school is assignment specific. Even washout rate percentages vary. I have seen TACP typically listed in the 50% range and CCT around 85%. I’ve read rumors that there will be basic training squadrons made up entirely made of TACPs, CCT, PJ, and SOWTs. Although I see the logic behind this, it appears to be totally untrue. 

When my son started this process his goal was CCT. I actually lived in the same dorms with CCT guys at Keesler back in the 80’s, so I had some familiarity. After enlisting he failed his first PAST. His run was too slow, but he passed the other parts. After a few weeks his run was good enough for TACP so he changed his contract. I had never heard of TACP, so I started to research. Although he’s training, he hasn’t taken another PAST in a while. I think he needed to shave another 10 seconds off for the CCT time. I’d prefer CCT, but I think he’s pretty much sold on TACP. My only reason for preferring CCT is the ATC certification. I’m looking at life through 50 year old eyes!

I’m just trying to gather as much accurate info as I can, and this forum seems like a great source.


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## Johca (May 10, 2016)

G-RAT said:


> I actually lived in the same dorms or drinking with CCT guys at Keesler back in the 80’s, so I had some familiarity..


No relevance unless this in the dorms or drinking exposure with CCT guys at Keesler was after 1988.  The ATC certification although impressive must be considered in comparison to how many CCT go into a FAA career track after completing their military service.  Sort of like paramedic for PJs.  Although a few go into being paramedic with a fire department or police departnet many other career tracks are pursued such as being commercial airline pilots, FAA ATC jobs, physicians, and a host of other different career paths


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## AWP (May 11, 2016)

G-RAT said:


> My only reason for preferring CCT is the ATC certification. I’m looking at life through 50 year old eyes!



A few things to consider.

1. Anecdotal, but I spent 4 years in Afghanistan providing comm support to two ATC entities (tower and approach). We had a number of former FAA controllers including several retired guys. They never heard of a CCT crossing over. I'm sure it was done, but how many guys will go from CCT to sitting in a tower or center? Those are really two different worlds and different personalities.
2. The FAA's hiring cycle is notoriously unpredictable. At times they want prior service and other times they don't place a premium on prior service. Some years they have a ton of positions and others will not...it all ebbs and flows.
3. The services produce a number of guys who will have much more ATC experience than a CCT. "Qualified" isn't the same as some guy who spent 6 years in a tower at some of the larger bases.
4. GS positions exist and without many of the "requirements" set by the FAA, but those can be very boring depending upon the location. The good news is more and more of these are becoming available.

You are 100% correct in what the ATC qualification can bring to the table, just be aware that his odds are long.


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## CDG (May 11, 2016)

G-RAT said:


> Thanks-
> 
> I’ve been all over the web. Some sites list SERE and basic jump school as training that all receive. Others state that jump school is assignment specific. Even washout rate percentages vary. I have seen TACP typically listed in the 50% range and CCT around 85%. I’ve read rumors that there will be basic training squadrons made up entirely made of TACPs, CCT, PJ, and SOWTs. Although I see the logic behind this, it appears to be totally untrue.
> 
> ...



SERE is a mandatory school and he's not awarded his 3 skill level until completion of SERE.  Jump is a part of the CCT pipeline, as is HALO and Dive.  It is not part of the official TACP pipeline though. 

Washout percentages do vary.  I started training with 36 guys and 7 of us went straight through without a recycle.  That's an 80% failure rate.  Now, out of that 80%, some ended up graduating with follow on classes.  I don't know those numbers though.  Historically though, our failure rate sits around 70%.  CCT has a higher historical failure rate, and they also have larger classes. 

CCT and TACP are similar in some regards, and different in others.  What does he really want to do?  What about each AFSC is attractive to him?


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## DA SWO (May 12, 2016)

Johca said:


> No relevance unless this in the dorms or drinking exposure with CCT guys at Keesler was after 1988.  The ATC certification although impressive must be considered in comparison to how many CCT go into a FAA career track after completing their military service.  Sort of like paramedic for PJs.  Although a few go into being paramedic with a fire department or police departnet many other career tracks are pursued such as being commercial airline pilots, FAA ATC jobs, physicians, and a host of other different career paths


IIRC most of the ATC stuff was taken out of the CCT Pipeline.  I'll check, but it may be a few days before I get back.


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## SpongeBob*24 (May 12, 2016)

Sir, thank you for yours and your son's service!


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## CDG (May 12, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> IIRC most of the ATC stuff was taken out of the CCT Pipeline.  I'll check, but it may be a few days before I get back.



The CCT guys still get ATC certified, do they not?  It is their primary mission.......


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## amlove21 (May 13, 2016)

CDG said:


> The CCT guys still get ATC certified, do they not?  It is their primary mission.......


Yeah, they do.


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## G-RAT (May 15, 2016)

Guys, thanks for all your comments. Looks like he has fully committed to TACP and leaves on June 7th. He is home from school now so he can post questions directly.


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## Red-Dot (May 15, 2016)

Good luck to him.


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