# SureFire Rail-Less pistol adapters.



## KBar666 (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey just wondering if any you guys have any input about the adapters that SureFire makes for Pistols without rails. I'm specifilly curious about the ones for 1911 model pistols but I'll take any input.

I'd perticularly like to know bout how secure they are and how it fits in most holsters also how the quality is as in, how prone to break?


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## policemedic (Sep 21, 2010)

I don't use the mount personally as my 1911s have integral rails, but Safariland makes the 6004 to fit the Surefire mount with either the X200 or X300.  Both companies make good kit, but I do see a possible issue with the mount because it replaces the stock slide release.  That may or may not need some tweaking.

Another option is a Dawson rail.  Then again, it depends on the mission and how much you can customize the gun.


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## Mac_NZ (Sep 21, 2010)

I have an old school Surefire pistol light on my work P-226 and the 6004 to fit it.  I mounts on solidly and I've had no issues with the holster.  Had to get the goons to replace the wire but the sight is at least 9 years old and keeps chugging along.

I'll take a picture for you tomorrow, i'm drunk and can't operate a camera right now


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## 8'Duece (Sep 21, 2010)

I have the older Surefire Military series light mounted on an M9 with the Surefire rail. 

1. It is solid, it's not going anywhere. 

2. It has to be mounted on the trigger guard.  There are two plates that hex screw into each other on the front and inside of the trigger guard. 

3. Mine can'ts a bit upwards due to the way it has to be mounted.  I've come to the conclusion that all the separate rail mounts are prone to this. 

4. The seperate rails from Surefire have been improved since mine.  I believe they recognized that the light will ultimately cant slightly upward towards the muzzle due too the mounting hardware. 

5. I have two holsters.  SOE gear and the Safariland 6004.  Even with the light slightly canted upwards toward the muzzle it fits the Safariland.  They are a bit forgiving for this purpose.


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## DA SWO (Sep 21, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> I have the older Surefire Military series light mounted on an M9 with the Surefire rail.
> 
> 1. It is solid, it's not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


 
Are you limited to using Surefire lights?  I looked at this but balked at paying $300 plus for a light that is worth more then my pistol.


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## KBar666 (Sep 21, 2010)

SOWT said:


> Are you limited to using Surefire lights?  I looked at this but balked at paying $300 plus for a light that is worth more then my pistol.


 
If that was directed at me, then No I was just looking at those, but if any of you guys have better suggestions I'm open to it.

The 1911 I'm specificilly thinking this is for is a Wilson Combat. I was looking at those Dawson Rails that police medic suggetested but juding by what was on the site I'm not sure if they'd be capatible.


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## policemedic (Sep 21, 2010)

KBar666 said:


> If that was directed at me, then No I was just looking at those, but if any of you guys have better suggestions I'm open to it.
> 
> The 1911 I'm specificilly thinking this is for is a Wilson Combat.



FWIW, I wouldn't use anything but a Surefire light. I've had the same X200 for about 5 years, and it gets daily use. It's certainly not babied.  I haven't been able to break it, and that's saying a lot. The other guys on my team use Surefires as well on their pistols, and our shotguns have dedicated SF fore end lights. My M4 wears a SF light as well. You can't go wrong with a SF weapon light.

Check with the folks at Wilson and see if the Dawson rail will fit.  I'm sure it will but I know they'll be happy to discuss it with you. When I ordered my CQB/rail they were more than helpful, and they've always been great whenever I've called. The Dawson is rock-solid since it bolts to the gun, so it's a good option. Of course, it will need to be installed by a gunsmith, where the SF mount is a do it yourself deal. 

Some of the guys in my company mounted lights on the POS issued M9s using SF mounts and they were happy with them.  But like I said, the mission drives the gear train.  Is this going a carry gun, or a nightstand gun?  Police use? Are you comfortable with a permanent mounting solution or do you want to be able to remove the mount easily?


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## 8'Duece (Sep 22, 2010)

SOWT said:


> Are you limited to using Surefire lights?  I looked at this but balked at paying $300 plus for a light that is worth more then my pistol.



That's a good question.  I'll see if my SF X300 will fit and stay on that particular rail.  It only has one pic rail indentation so I would say "YES" but the length of the light and it's function key may a bit too far out from the trigger guard. 

I'lll check when get a moment this weekend.


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## 8'Duece (Sep 22, 2010)

policemedic said:


> FWIW, I wouldn't use anything but a Surefire light. I've had the same X200 for about 5 years, and it gets daily use. It's certainly not babied.  I haven't been able to break it, and that's saying a lot. The other guys on my team use Surefires as well on their pistols, and our shotguns have dedicated SF fore end lights. My M4 wears a SF light as well. You can't go wrong with a SF weapon light.
> 
> Check with the folks at Wilson and see if the Dawson rail will fit.  I'm sure it will but I know they'll be happy to discuss it with you. When I ordered my CQB/rail they were more than helpful, and they've always been great whenever I've called. The Dawson is rock-solid since it bolts to the gun, so it's a good option. Of course, it will need to be installed by a gunsmith, where the SF mount is a do it yourself deal.
> 
> Some of the guys in my company mounted lights on the POS issued M9s using SF mounts and they were happy with them.  But like I said, the mission drives the gear train.  Is this going a carry gun, or a nightstand gun?  Police use? Are you comfortable with a permanent mounting solution or do you want to be able to remove the mount easily?



How does the Dawson rail work ?  Is it actually screwed into the dust cover ? How is it mounted to the weapon ? Does the weapon need to visit a gunsmith ? 

Seriously, I've heard of them, all over the place but never actually saw the Dawson rail on a 1911 pistola. 

Mine are all integral to the frame of the pistol.


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## DA SWO (Sep 22, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> That's a good question.  I'll see if my SF X300 will fit and stay on that particular rail.  It only has one pic rail indentation so I would say "YES" but the length of the light and it's function key may a bit too far out from the trigger guard.
> 
> I'lll check when get a moment this weekend.



Thanks



8'Duece said:


> How does the Dawson rail work ?  Is it actually screwed into the dust cover ? How is it mounted to the weapon ? Does the weapon need to visit a gunsmith ?
> 
> Seriously, I've heard of them, all over the place but never actually saw the Dawson rail on a 1911 pistola.
> 
> Mine are all integral to the frame of the pistol.


 
Never heard of Dawson, guess I need to google later tonight.


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## AWP (Sep 22, 2010)

Dawson Precision? They make great stuff but I won't give them my money if I can help it. I find their customer service to be rather lacking.


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## policemedic (Sep 22, 2010)

Here's the link to the Dawson rail- http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=26C0000-1094593471

It is attached to the dustcover and it's a gunsmith deal. Rock solid, high-quality mount.

Freefalling- Sucks that customer service is below par.  I can understand not wanting to spend money with a firm that acts like they're doing you a favor.


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## 8'Duece (Sep 22, 2010)

That Dawson rail is one ugly Betty. ...............................Not trying to imply that your product on your weapon doesn't work, just that I wouldn't spend the money to have that ugly thing milled, drilled, glued or tattooed on any of my 1911's that are not with an integral rail. 

It just looks sooooo aftermarket to me.  

YMMV


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## policemedic (Sep 22, 2010)

I never said I used it, i simply mentioned it as an alternative to the Surefire mount.  I do know that the when the Marines were spec'ing out a 1911 for MCSOCOM Det-1, they chose the Dawson rail, and it held up quite well.  Myself, if I were buying a pistol upon which I meant to mount a light (which is all my carry guns save one 1911 and a Glock 27) I would opt for an integral rail.  I'm much more comfortable with the design and strength of the integral rail on my Wilson CQB/rail than I would be with an after-market add-on, though it has nothing to do with aesthetics.  I doubt you'd really notice the rail once a light was mounted.

On the other hand, if I were to run across a well-kept Wilson or Nighthawk with a standard frame for a really good price, I just might pick it up and add the rail.


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## AWP (Sep 22, 2010)

policemedic said:


> Freefalling- Sucks that customer service is below par.  I can understand not wanting to spend money with a firm that acts like they're doing you a favor.



Yep.

Some months ago I was researching pistols for USPSA and didn't know if I wanted a Limited or Production gun, a S_I, Glock, S&W, or Springfield, how much work can I handle myself vs. how much to let a gunsmith do, etc. They have pistols ready to go listed on their website. Several email inquiries later I gave up. I wasn't looking to buy a small component, I would have bought an entire gun from them but either their contact page sends email to nowhere or they weren't interested in my business. Either way, if I ever run their components it will be because a 'smith put them there, not because I went out to purchase something from them.

Just in the small time I've worked on this little project of mine I've found Bravo Company, Vltor, Ranier Arms, Blue Force Gear, American Defense, Palmetto State Armory, and CPWSA to be fantastic. They were all willing to answer my stupid questions when I asked them and shipped my orders within a day or two of placing them. Vltor, BFG, and ADG especially. Hell, a BFG rep and I exchanged a dozen emails over a *sling*.....those guys are awesome and I'll always send business their way.


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## KBar666 (Sep 23, 2010)

You know what screw it...this is a nice excuse to get a new gun with an integral rail.


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## AWP (Sep 23, 2010)

KBar666 said:


> You know what screw it...this is a nice excuse to get a new gun with an integral rail.



That's the best post in this thread. :)


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## policemedic (Sep 23, 2010)

Agreed. 

I'm partial to Wilson and Nighthawk, but LAPD has been quite happy with their Kimbers (both SWAT and SIS), and the Kimber is significantly more affordable.  They've all got rails and are reliable shooters.


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## Manolito (Oct 9, 2010)

I have been researching lights and I have settled on a streamlight with a Thunder Ranch modification. This is nothing more than a large O-Ring on a clip that allows you to drop the light while you reload and it dangles from the O-Ring hooked on your ring finger. This was how I was taught but I wonder if the rail system is better. I see policemedic saying all his carry weapons have a rail mount light. Any input would be appreciated. I carry a Glock 36 no rail a sig 239 no rail and a colt Gov model .380 as a bug. I do own a M&P 9 with a rail. Do you use a light laser combo? 
Thanks
Bill


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## policemedic (Oct 10, 2010)

I like the concept of light/laser, but I'm not too sold on the combined units (if one function breaks, you're screwed).  I do trust the Surefire X400, but duty holsters are an issue.

My preference would be a rail mounted Surefire with Crimson Trace grips.  Unfortunately, while they're available for 1911s, they don't make them for my HK45, which is my duty gun.


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## 8'Duece (Oct 10, 2010)

policemedic said:


> I like the concept of light/laser, but I'm not too sold on the combined units (if one function breaks, you're screwed).  I do trust the Surefire X400, but duty holsters are an issue.
> 
> My preference would be a rail mounted Surefire with Crimson Trace grips.  Unfortunately, while they're available for 1911s, they don't make them for my HK45, which is my duty gun.



CTC's rock.  The light/Illumination factor is another point of contact that has to be easy for the operator to initiate with little or no mechanical input.  I like the use of the pressure pad initiation of the light and the laser but it's hard to come by a system that supplies both.  

I love the CTC's but if I want white light illuminatin I have to use another toggle switch. Hence the reason I have opted for the Insight Light/Laser combo for rail guns.  

YMMV


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