# Afghans kill over Koran burning



## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2011)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42388723/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

I guess the pastor was feeling the attention waning from his previous threats to burn the Koran.  At least this time there was a "trial" ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42386587/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/


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## AWP (Apr 2, 2011)

Fuck that guy. I'd like to take his church and the Westboro Cocksmokers and lock them in a peat house covered in pitch while the families of the deceased played "Which torch works best?"

You can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and burning the Koran, much as I loathe the Islamic religion, constitutes doing the same thing only myself, others on the board, and hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan and Iraq are sitting around waiting for the pay to begin. Like Mrs. Lincoln, I don't find the play that compeling.


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## x SF med (Apr 2, 2011)

The pastor doesn't take any responsibility for inciting the violence - he blames 'Islamic Radicals'.  WTF kind of logic is that?  Dude would be the first one to declare a Christian jihad wahadi on their souls and persons if they had burned the Bible and put in on International TV...   He's surprised at the consequences of his un thought out display of cosmic stupidity that going to have repercussions that fill the afterlife for years to come?


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## Scotth (Apr 2, 2011)

I like the part about members being fearful for there safety now with all the death threats.  Consequences, I love them.  Especially for the retards unable to understand there own actions.


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## pardus (Apr 2, 2011)

Would be funny if his church burned down.

Listen to this ignorant BS...



> Some church members were surprised by the violent reaction in  Afghanistan on Friday, said Fran Ingram, an assistant at the church.



Quote from here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42386587/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

If you're that fucking stupid then fuck you, I won't shed a tear for you if the worst happens.

And I hate Islam.


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## x SF med (Apr 2, 2011)

Why is the Frank Zappa song "Cosmic Debris" running through my head every time I think about this act of abject stupidity?


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## DA SWO (Apr 2, 2011)

Who cares, muslims burn/deface Bible's all the time.  I am not worked up over a koran burning, just wonder if it had gold leaf on it, and was the gold recovered.


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## pardus (Apr 2, 2011)

SOWT said:


> Who cares, muslims burn/deface Bible's all the time.  I am not worked up over a koran burning,



I couldn't care less that a Koran was burned. The issue for me is that we know people are going to be hurt, most likely our people in retaliation for the burning.
Personally I'd advocate machine gunning the protesting crowds (if they became violent) in A'stan but that's just me.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2011)

We cannot allow the fear of violence to cloud the issue at hand; the only people to blame for the killings are the ones who committed the acts.

At the end of the day, this was an American, in America, exercising his rights as an American under the U.S. Constitution.    I think the Reverend in this case is an attention whore and that burning the book was a dumb-ass thing for him to do, but it was right to do it.  The only people I will cast blame on are the perpetrators and those who put them up to it.


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## Nasty (Apr 2, 2011)

Burning any book is wrong; burning a book that will enrage millions of ignorant bastards is just plain stupid.


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## Purple (Apr 2, 2011)

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion. - SW

And so it goes...

Purple


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## pardus (Apr 2, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> We cannot allow the fear of violence to cloud the issue at hand; the only people to blame for the killings are the ones who committed the acts.
> 
> At the end of the day, this was an American, in America, exercising his rights as an American under the U.S. Constitution.    I think the Reverend in this case is an attention whore and that burning the book was a dumb-ass thing for him to do, but it was right to do it.  The only people I will cast blame on are the perpetrators and those who put them up to it.



That is very true



Nasty said:


> Burning any book is wrong; burning a book that will enrage millions of ignorant bastards is just plain stupid.



And so is this.


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## Scotth (Apr 2, 2011)

I think we all can agree that the attack on the UN site and deaths involved weren't justified.  I also think we all agree that the retards in Florida have a right to burn the book even if we disagree.

I think xSF hit the nail on the head when he said the same people that burned the Koran would probably be some of the loudest objectors if some mosque in the US did the same "trial" stunt and burned a Bible.

When the event is published on the internet it was meant to offend people.  We have troops on the ground in 2 muslim countries and there actions put all of our people at increased risk and makes there job just that much harder.  They may have the right to do what they did but they have no good excuses,  but to have an excuse you would have to actually accept responsibility for your actions.

The killings may not have been justified but they are certainly the consequences of the churches actions.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't need a "good excuse" to exercise my rights as an American citizen, and neither does any other American.


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## pardus (Apr 2, 2011)

You are correct.
The pastor is just an attention whore.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2011)

pardus said:


> You are correct.
> The pastor is just an attention whore.



Agreed.


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## x SF med (Apr 2, 2011)

The pastor fails the reasonable man test.  Res ispsa loquitor.

I am not arguing anything - just stating a fact - the pastor is a dumbass attention whore who's actions and need to be the center of view may have been the proximate cause for hundreds of death at this point - and possibly thousands in the future.  The act was legal, but not prudent.  The use of religion as an excuse, is weak at best - who is this dickwad?  Zwingli? Luther? Wesley? Calvin? Ras Tafari?  No, he's a dumbass redneck with a video camera, lighter fluid, a zippo and a bad attitude with a really bad idea.


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## Polar Bear (Apr 2, 2011)

x SF med said:


> The pastor fails the reasonable man test. Res ispsa loquitor.
> 
> I am not arguing anything - just stating a fact - the pastor is a dumbass attention whore who's actions and need to be the center of view may have been the proximate cause for hundreds of death at this point - and possibly thousands in the future. The act was legal, but not prudent. The use of religion as an excuse, is weak at best - who is this dickwad? Zwingli? Luther? Wesley? Calvin? Ras Tafari? No, he's a dumbass redneck with a video camera, lighter fluid, a zippo and a bad attitude with a really bad idea.



Dude you just dimed out half this board


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## x SF med (Apr 2, 2011)

Wow, you are correct, you large ursine authority figure.

I didn't realize I had described my self ... mostly... in the last sentence... but he didn't say, "Here hold my beer and watch this, you are not gonna believe this shit, it's cool..."

He blamed God for his bad idea, kinda like Berkowitz blaming the dog, or Hinkley blaming Jodie Foster.

The board members here blame the lack of control while drinking, and their own selves...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2011)

x SF med said:


> The pastor fails the reasonable man test.  Res ispsa loquitor.
> 
> I am not arguing anything - just stating a fact - the pastor is a dumbass attention whore who's actions and need to be the center of view may have been the proximate cause for hundreds of death at this point - and possibly thousands in the future.  The act was legal, but not prudent.  The use of religion as an excuse, is weak at best - who is this dickwad?  Zwingli? Luther? Wesley? Calvin? Ras Tafari?  No, he's a dumbass redneck with a video camera, lighter fluid, a zippo and a bad attitude with a really bad idea.



I don't think res ispsa loquitor would apply in this case.  I don't think he had a "duty" not to exercise his Constitutional rights,  therefore he couldn't "breach" those rights, and I don't think we could make the case that "but for" his Koran burning, people wouldn't have been murdered by insurgents in Afghanistan, because that happens pretty regularly.

That said, I am neither a legal scholar nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.

We reaaaalllly need to entice a lawyer to become a member of our site... or a member who is already a lawyer and has been keeping quiet about it needs to start chiming in.


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## x SF med (Apr 2, 2011)

Mara - all Res ipsa loquitor means is "the thing speaks for itself".

The reasonable man test is the key - would a reasonable man have pissed on a very volatile foreign radical population (with whom we are currently at war) by burning their sacred text and posting it on the internet... and then say that God told him to?

I don't think either side is right - we have a Florida redneck and a bunch of Muslim rednecks being stupid on opposite sides of the world and getting others killed as a result.... In the name of their respective Gods.

In'sh Allah...
In nomine Patre...


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## pardus (Apr 2, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> We reaaaalllly need to entice a lawyer to become a member of our site... or a member who is already a lawyer and has been keeping quiet about it needs to start chiming in.



I spoke with a lawyer last night who is a long time though absent member of the board. He's also from Florida...
I'll try and get him to chime in.


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## DA SWO (Apr 3, 2011)

x SF med said:


> The pastor fails the reasonable man test. Res ispsa loquitor.
> 
> I am not arguing anything - just stating a fact - the pastor is a dumbass attention whore who's actions and need to be the center of view may have been the proximate cause for hundreds of death at this point - and possibly thousands in the future. The act was legal, but not prudent. The use of religion as an excuse, is weak at best - who is this dickwad? Zwingli? Luther? Wesley? Calvin? Ras Tafari? No, he's a dumbass redneck with a video camera, lighter fluid, a zippo and a bad attitude with a really bad idea.



Res ispsa loquitor actually means "the Act Speks for itself" per my resident JAG Officer.
Said JAF Off also states that comparing Afghani Reasonable Man with the American Reasonable Man is not a valid comparison, and you would have to a) apply their standard to their actions and b) apply their standard to other people's actions.
For Example:
Taliban Blow up statue of Budda, Buddists worldwide stone and burn embassies belonging to muslim nations.
That would be reasonable using the Taliban Reasonable Man Standard.
AnotherExample:
Taliban burn religious tracts that don't conform to their beliefs.
Using the Taliban Reasonable Man concept someone here would bun religious books that don't conform to their beliefs, wait, that's what the guy in FL did.
So I guess it's ok because we used the Taliban/Muslim Reasonable Man Theory as our standard.

Reverand Dipshit lives in America, and his actions are allowed under our law.  Does it suck for the guys/gals in A-stan; yes.
But we can not allow our constitutional freedoms to be limited by people in another country.
Anti-Islam statements sometimes appear on this site, should ss.com be taken off the web because someone in Afghanistan may take offense and organize a riot?


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## x SF med (Apr 3, 2011)

SOWT-
Although the act is legal in the US, is it prudent in the light of the current world situation?  Or is it akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater, with armed assailants out side shooting those who exit the building?

Again, "right" and "reasonable" are dependent on the culture/morality/ laws/terrain/situation of the party(ies) - were the Pastor's actions legal - yes.  Were the Pastor's actions "reasonable and prudent", not at this juncture...  as can be seen by the actions of those offended - who in their culture are right.

Two wrongs don't make a right... but 3 lefts do.   Just saying...y'know... that because it is protected by law, an action may not be wholly 'right'.

An example - a person is on an FID mission, and has taken the culture classes (how not to piss off those who you teach - surround you and hold your life in their hands) and blatantly decides to disregard them getting his team tossed and couple of guys hurt.  Lets say he ate with this left hand at a banquet - blatantly, after being corrected, at the head table with the village leaders (political and religous) during a religious feast -becuase he didn't think...  he was an American.  The word goes out and the entire FID program is set back.  The guy wan't wrong by American standards - but his actions had further reaching consequences - because for that short period of time, his 'reasonability' was not reasonable.

The pastor ate with his left hand at the banquet and then posted it on the internet - and the guests at the banquet had been chewing khef and bhat and opium all day, and were armed.  Go ahead and burn the Q'ran - just don't post it on the internet.


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## Scotth (Apr 3, 2011)

Going to the guys website it looks more like he is trying to make money on his anti-Islam crusade.  He is selling books and merchandise on his website and is planning on taking his show on the road in April to Mich to hold protest at a large mosque in Dearborn.

This issue isn't going away anytime soon.


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## Purple (Apr 3, 2011)

_Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion._ - S Weinberg

_Morality is doing what's right, regardless of what you are told. A lot of religious morality is doing what you are told, no matter whether or not it is right._ -JA Thomson

_All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish {Islamic}, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit._ - Thomas Paine

_Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion, several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven._ - Mark Twain

It has all been said before...but maybe somebody burned those books, too, and the message has been lost. Sad.

And so it goes...

Purple


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## x SF med (Apr 3, 2011)

Scotth said:


> Going to the guys website it looks more like he is trying to make money on his anti-Islam crusade. He is selling books and merchandise on his website and is planning on taking his show on the road in April to Mich to hold protest at a large mosque in Dearborn.
> 
> This issue isn't going away anytime soon.



...and, I ask again - is he a reasonable man, or just a greedy and insensitive man - using religion as a shield so that he can fill his pockets with no regard of the cost to others?

He's posted on the web that he is planning another round of this?

Time to make sure the body armor and K-pot are handy...  rifles and pistols are clean, knives sharp and there's plenty of ammo....  this idiot is going to try to bring this fight into the heartland instead of leaving it in their backyard.


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## DA SWO (Apr 3, 2011)

x SF med said:


> SOWT-
> Although the act is legal in the US, is it prudent in the light of the current world situation? Or is it akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater, with armed assailants out side shooting those who exit the building?
> 
> Again, "right" and "reasonable" are dependent on the culture/morality/ laws/terrain/situation of the party(ies) - were the Pastor's actions legal - yes. Were the Pastor's actions "reasonable and prudent", not at this juncture... as can be seen by the actions of those offended - who in their culture are right.
> ...



You are mixing apples and oranges.
Shut the Reverend down so as to keep Afghani's happy and keep guys safe.  Awesome, what other part of the constitution should we suspend to ensure folks deployed are not in danger?


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## Scotth (Apr 3, 2011)

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Jones should be stopped or silenced in anyway by the government.

We are just unhappy that US men and women in harms way will have to live with greater threats to there security and increased difficulties in completing missions in places like Afghanistan, if it doesn't undermine it completely.

Not to mention in the larger picture it diminishes are ability, as a nation, to positively impact all the events happening in North Africa and the Middle East.  He is doing more to help AQ and other radicals even though he claims to oppose them.  Just when AQ impact was being diminished this retard comes along and throws them a bone.

He has the legal right to do what he is doing but if I had the chance to talk to him I would say,


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## SpitfireV (Apr 3, 2011)

I'd do him for manslaughter.


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## DA SWO (Apr 3, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> I'd do him for manslaughter.



How about doing Karzai too?


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## SpitfireV (Apr 3, 2011)

He's not the point.


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## x SF med (Apr 4, 2011)

My argument is not to stop him, but to question his motives.  He has the right as an American to say what he likes, I have the right to argue that what he has said or done is not in the best interest of the Country, and I do not have the right to harm him nor impinge upon his rights, unless he is the proximate cause of danger/harm to another individual in my sight, and at that point only to stop him from that act.

My thoughts are that he is a retard, and is using religion as an excuse to line his pockets and create fear.


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## Purple (Apr 4, 2011)

To me, this current episode of that globally popular and seemingly never-ending theological soap opera - "As The World Burns" - is, sorrowfully, little more than a continuation of one of the oldest and most ignoble stories of the History of mankind - one group of self-aggrandized cretins provoking another group of self-aggrandized cretins, with many innocent people being harmed.

Sad.

Purple


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## DA SWO (Apr 4, 2011)

x SF med said:


> My argument is not to stop him, but to question his motives. He has the right as an American to say what he likes, I have the right to argue that what he has said or done is not in the best interest of the Country, and I do not have the right to harm him nor impinge upon his rights, unless he is the proximate cause of danger/harm to another individual in my sight, and at that point only to stop him from that act.
> 
> My thoughts are that he is a retard, and is using religion as an excuse to line his pockets and create fear.



On this we agree.
He's an attention whore of the first degree.
That said, let him burn it, and frankly, suffer from the results.  I won't weep when some home grown jihadi whacks his ass.
I get angry when the pols and others get bent out of shape over this (giving reverend Dipshit more attention) but stay mum when muslims burn churches, holt books, etc.


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## pardus (Apr 4, 2011)

Reading all this I have to say that despite thinking the Pastor is dick juice in a jar, he does have the right and to do this  and should be free to do it whenever he feels the desire to do so.
We cannot allow others to dictate the rights of Americans, the Constitution is black and white.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 4, 2011)

pardus said:


> ...
> We cannot allow others to dictate the rights of Americans...



Concur.


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## x SF med (Apr 4, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Concur.



It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it?  C'mon, Sir, Say it...  the guy is a douche, but he has rights...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 4, 2011)

x SF med said:


> It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it?  C'mon, Sir, Say it...  the guy is a douche, but he has rights...



I could not have expressed it any better than you just did.  :cool:


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## DA SWO (Apr 4, 2011)

x SF med said:


> It doesn't mean that the guy isn't a douchebag of the first degree though, does it? C'mon, Sir, Say it... the guy is a douche, but he has rights...



I agree.


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Apr 5, 2011)

What an Ass Clown.  When he said he was going to do this last year, a former NY Giant stepped up and bribed him to not do it.



> SOUTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey — A Florida pastor who drew international  criticism by threatening to burn a copy of the Koran picked up a free  car yesterday, his reward from a New Jersey car dealer for calling it  off. Former New York Giants tackle Brad  Benson, who is now New Jersey’s largest car dealer, offered Florida  pastor Terry Jones a 2011 Hyundai Accent worth $14,200 if he would agree  to never burn the Muslim holy book. Jones had threatened to do it on  the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. REST



Jones donated the car to a Jersey City shelter that helps abused women.http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...burn_koran_gets_free_car_gives_it_to_charity/


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