# Establishment of new intel MOS - 35Q



## goon175 (Jun 5, 2012)

See below message that was put out.



> SUBJECT:  Establishment of Enlisted Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) 35Q,
> Cryptologic Network Warfare Specialist CMF 35
> 1.  THIS IS AN IMMEDIATE MESSAGE, and is valid for 2 years from date of
> publication unless rescinded or superseded.
> ...


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## Marauder06 (Jun 5, 2012)

I guess this means MI has proponency for cyber now.


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## goon175 (Jun 5, 2012)

How does this effect the 29 series guys? or does EW not cover the cyber/digital realm?


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## Brill (Jun 5, 2012)

No, it's been out for a few months now.  INSCOM is looking for any 35-series willing to reclass and attend JCAC.  Huge bucks on the outside.


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## RonKrause (Jun 6, 2012)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


POST AN INTRO BEFORE YOU POST ON THE BOARD AS PER THE RULES YOU SIGNED.


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## DA SWO (Jun 6, 2012)

RonKrause said:


> XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


I'm still waiting for your intro post.


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## dirtmover (Jun 6, 2012)

Can anyone explain in layman's terms what the major duties are?  I am interested in reclassing and am curious if this job would be a fit.


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## Brill (Jun 6, 2012)

35Q's learn all things cyber.

The US Department of Defense defines computer network operations (CNO) as comprising three types of operations: computer network attack, computer network defense, and related computer
network exploitation-enabling operations. 
Computer network attack (CNA) refers to operations to disrupt, deny, degrade, or destroy information resident in computers and computer networks, or the computers and networks themselves. Computer network exploitation (CNE) consists of enabling operations and intelligence collection to gather data from target or adversary computers and networks in support of CNA. Computer network defense (CND) consists of defensive measures to protect and defend information, computers, and networks from disruption, denial, degradation, or destruction. In short, CND refers to operations that protect against adversary CNA/E.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA484697


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## AWP (Jun 6, 2012)

What a great time to be young.


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## Scotth (Jun 7, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> What a great time to be young.


 
Damn I'm old!  My first computer course was on card readers.  Today they are scanning credit cards on a cell phone.  When I was in high school this was high tech.


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## HackTheCloud (Jun 9, 2012)

The official MILPER message for those who are not currently working in the area of focus of the 35Q MOS (which will require reclass) will be released in 1-2 weeks according to the MI Branch. An official MILPER message was released last week concerning transition for those who currently possess the N6 ASI or similar training. Since it is FOUO, I am only providing the link for CAC holders: https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/12-173 There is an assessment test that can be taken, the procedures for taking the test are also outline in the MILPER message.

For those who are not holding the N6 ASI or similar training, you must meet the same eligibility requirements, including a mandatory CSP (CI Scope Polygraph) in conjunction with a TS/SCI, before training due to the sensitivity of the training. I currently meet all the requirements except the Polygraph, but I will have one complete prior to the MILPER message release. I personally have been trying to get into Cyber Warfare for over a year now, but I was told to hold off because of this new MOS.

While at my current unit, I became a Certified Ethical Hacker, Certified Network Defense Architect, Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist, and CompTIA Security+ and Network+ certified, I have been to class for CISSP, CCNA, ITILv3/2011, etc, and I am almost a semester away from my Associates of Science in Computer Info. Science with a Major in Network Security,  all while maintaining 6 duty positions (LAN Manager, SA, IAM, KMO, Web Author...basically the Automations Manager and Senior Tech) and spending 4-6 months each year for the past 2.5 years at field exercises. All of this has been a great learning experience when combined together, and I would have been ETSing as a 21 year old SPC in 6 months after completing my 3.5 year service obligations, but I decided to use my skills and experience to do what I enjoy in support of our nation's defense in the new Cyber arena although I already had opportunities with other employers. (I'm not saying this to boast/brag, I'm saying this to encourage others, because if I can do it anyone can).

If you have the desire to learn, do the same while you can do most of this on the Army's dime. I had to study for and take the Certified Ethical Hacker exam out of my own pocket because it was not indoctrinated by DoD 8570.1 -m as a baseline requirement at the time I took the exam (it is now however).

Good luck to anyone who does want to pursue this MOS, make sure you keep a lookout on HRC's MILPER messaging system for further guidance. This is only what I have discovered through my time and research.


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## AWP (Jun 9, 2012)

Daniel West said:


> ...


 
Daniel,
Post an Intro in the correct sub-forum before posting again.

Thank you.


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## goon175 (Jun 9, 2012)

That is an amazing amount of training and opportunity. I don't think you will have a hard time finding employment (in the military or out) any time soon. Other guys who are just entering or have recently entered military service should take note of what is possible if you have the ambition, motivation, and drive to take advantage of what the military has to offer.


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## SpitfireV (Jun 9, 2012)

Ethical hacking? Heh. A bit like ethical humint really.


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## Brill (Jun 10, 2012)

Nice job; someone quoted this thread on MI Space (you have to be able to fondle your CAC to get access):

https://forums.army.mil/SECURE/CommunityBrowser.aspx?id=1379560&lang=en-US

Looks like MSG Ron K is the real deal and it would be good to have him chime in on this topic.


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## Brill (Jun 10, 2012)

I didn't see a classification on this so Mods, if this is determined to be FOUO...do whacha gotta do.

http://www.afcea.org/events/tnlf/southwest/documents/Tr1S1MIConway.pdf


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## Marauder06 (Jun 10, 2012)

lindy said:


> I didn't see a classification on this so Mods, if this is determined to be FOUO...do whacha gotta do.
> 
> http://www.afcea.org/events/tnlf/southwest/documents/Tr1S1MIConway.pdf


 
I didn't see a classification either.  I did notice they mentioned F3EAD on the second slide ;)

Looks UNCLASS to me.


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## RetPara (Jun 11, 2012)

Scotth said:


> Damn I'm old! My first computer course was on card readers. Today they are scanning credit cards on a cell phone. When I was in high school this was high tech.


 
There were card readers that read stone tablets?  

US CyberCom?  US CyberCom Staff Course?  New MI Warrent field?  National CybePatriot Program?  ONLY a 105 GT?   This is starting to make the fielding of the PsyOps career field look good.  CINCCyber HAS got to be a Combat Arms officer to bring some sanity to all this.


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## Etype (Jun 14, 2012)

RetPara said:


> ONLY a 105 GT?


Yeah, I noticed that, too.  A 105 is weak- especially when they are cutting troop numbers.


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## goon175 (Jun 14, 2012)

I haven't posted the corrected version yet, but the GT is higher, the ST score is a 105 though I believe


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## goon175 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have actually noticed quite a few MOS's that have lowered GT standards though. Of note, both SF and Rangers have dropped their minimum GT from 110 to 107, and I know the 75th liasons will make exceptions on the 107 for in-service applicants who are only a couple points shy but have exceptional PT scores. Recruiters can also get up to a 3 point line score waiver on 18x contracts as well, again depending on exceptional circumstances (college degree, or other applicable experience).


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## HackTheCloud (Jun 15, 2012)

Even with lower GT and ST score requirements, this MOS is going to be difficult for soldiers to reclassify into because of the TS/SCI and mandatory CSP that must be obtained prior to reclassification. I have to wait for the reclassification MILPER message to come out before I can even schedule to take the CSP. USAREUR only has one place to go for a poly as well. They told me that the CSP is typically not given to soldiers who are reclassifying because this is done at AIT; however, this is the only MOS that will require the CSP be conducted before reclassification can be done.


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## Brill (Jun 15, 2012)

If you cannot pass the CI poly there are some serious issues that need to be resolved.


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## Etype (Jun 15, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I have actually noticed quite a few MOS's that have lowered GT standards though. Of note, both SF and Rangers have dropped their minimum GT from 110 to 107, and I know the 75th liasons will make exceptions on the 107 for in-service applicants who are only a couple points shy but have exceptional PT scores. Recruiters can also get up to a 3 point line score waiver on 18x contracts as well, again depending on exceptional circumstances (college degree, or other applicable experience).


There are a couple guys I know in SF who I would assume have negative numbers for a GT score, not many, but a few.


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## Salt USMC (Jun 16, 2012)

Etype said:


> There are a couple guys I know in SF who I would assume have negative numbers for a GT score, not many, but a few.


 
This is awfully suprising.  I'll admit that I've never personally known any SF soldiers, but from how I've seen them characterized ('Chosen Soldier', 'Masters of Chaos', various TV shows, etc) they are supposed to be very bright and adept guys.  Are they dumb, say, compared to your college grad?  Or dumb compared to your average motor T guy?


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## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2012)

Deathy McDeath said:


> This is awfully suprising. I'll admit that I've never personally known any SF soldiers, but from how I've seen them characterized ('Chosen Soldier', 'Masters of Chaos', various TV shows, etc) they are supposed to be very bright and adept guys. Are they dumb, say, compared to your college grad? Or dumb compared to your average motor T guy?


 
No matter how legitimately elite a group is, there are always a handful who scrape by or who have slipped through the cracks.


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## Etype (Jun 16, 2012)

Dumb is everywhere, Barrack Obama is a law professor and doesn't understand judicial review.


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## Brill (Jun 17, 2012)

All you SSE fanatics will notice the gear in the picture!

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/...cle_bc767f5c-2ea4-58a8-9da1-f68a53db5320.html

In the fall, AACC will offer a degree in cyber forensics for the first time


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## HackTheCloud (Jun 22, 2012)

Published Yesterday: https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/12-187


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## Brill (Jun 24, 2012)

Didn't really know where to put this article, under Cyber or Gay month.  Turing is kind of a big deal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-due/2012/06/22/gJQA5eUOvV_story.html?hpid=z3


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, I am officially slotted for 35Q. Reenlisting in 2 days. Going to school for MOS in the fourth month of the 13th year. Process was long and painful, Retention @ HRC was a little confused by the requirements, but the MI Branch and Retention @ HRC got it all figured out. Good luck to all going into this MOS. Thanks for the info, will pass the site on to others.


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## Micheal (Jul 14, 2012)

HackTheCloud said:


> Well, I am officially slotted for 35Q. Reenlisting in 2 days. Going to school for MOS in the fourth month of the 13th year. Process was long and painful, Retention @ HRC was a little confused by the requirements, but the MI Branch and Retention @ HRC got it all figured out. Good luck to all going into this MOS. Thanks for the info, will pass the site on to others.


Do you know if current future soldiers are able to enlist into this MOS I've been looking everywhere but cant find much?


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## Marauder06 (Jul 14, 2012)

Micheal said:


> Do you know if current future soldiers are able to enlist into this MOS I've been looking everywhere but cant find much?


 
Hi Micheal, please familiarize yourself with the site rules and make an into before you make any other posts, including a response to this one.  Thanks.


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 15, 2012)

Yes you can: http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-j...t/cryptologic-network-warfare-specialist.html (See my FYI at the bottom for more info_

Since I have gotten a few messages from visitors of this forum, I will just post the details of the in-service reclass process I went through here:

Ok so details:

1. I had been trying for over a year to get into cyber warfare, so I can conduct CNO/CNA for my country instead of going to Federal prison for it.
-I had talked to a SGM and MSG at AC-11, that were part of a Red Team-April/May 2011
-They forwarded my Bio to the CSM of ARCYBER
-Then he forwarded by stuff to 1st IO
-They only a a slot for a sergeant no E-4 and below in the entire Battalion
-Then I contacted the "ANWB" which is 780th MI Bde/781st MI Bn-who is now the unit that 35q's report to in MD and there is also 782nd in GA.
-They told me to hold off until 35q was out, because you had to be a 35S/35N with the N6 ASI (JCAC).
-I used my resources on the classified side of the house to locate some docs about the future 35Q MOS.
-Found the LTC of the MI branch on one the documents (didn't know he was the branch chief at the time)
-Sent him an e-mail
-He told me in April a MILPER message was coming out soon
-I cc'ed my reenlistment NCO on everything, as well as my Chain of Command
-I contact the LTC again, he then passed me off to the PDNCO for 35Q-the SFC on the MILPER message
-I called the SFC 
-He told me of the prerequisites (including CSP-poly)
-I then talked to my S-2 NCOIC who then talked to the CI Agents on our post
-They then located the civilian who does CSPs for USAREUR (location undisclosed)
-I contacted the civilian, civ then sent up ALL of my e-mails regarding the MOS to quality control, since at the time there was no MOS that required a CSP prior to reclass. This was the first and only. I also had to get my S-2 to do a memo requesting the Poly for me.
-They then contacted INSCOM.
-INSCOM was "unaware" of this MOS
-They contacted the SFC PDNCO for 35Q and he provided more info and a copy of the MILPER draft to them(before it was released). He cc'ed the LTC MI branch chief.
-The LTC then got involved.
-After all was said and done I was approved to take the poly.
-I drove to (location undisclosed) 4 hours away to take CSP
-The results were sent back to the states
-The next day JPAS @ S2 reflected that I had "passed"
-They gave me a Memo and a copy of the JPAS record as verification for HRC.
-My reenlistment NCO sent it all up to Reenlistment at HRC.
-They then told him that their were other documents required, however the MILPER message did not say that. (BTW at this point I met ever prereq on the MILPER message, I was in my reenlistment window, eligible for reclass, etc)
-He then sent all of the traffic to the SFC PDNCO of 35Q
-He said there were no other docs required, and went and personally talked to Reenlistment @ HRC upstairs.
-They then fixed the situation on my "hotline" request (special request that retention has to enter into the Retain system, since the MOS was not in Retain when I started this process).
-I was then slotted in ATTRS for this course. (It still appears as the N6 ASI course JCAC)
-Now I just have to do the reenlistment ceremony and my retention has to upload the contract into Retain, and I am all done.

UPDATE: Had reenlistment ceremony and contract is done. Report date good.


This was a headache! BTW the last word I got was that there are only 20 slots for in service reclassification for FY 13 for the ENTIRE Army, and 170 slots for recruiting. In other words you have to hurry or you will be waiting until FY 14.


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## goon175 (Jul 15, 2012)

Good on you for "making it happen". Too many soldiers just sit on their laurels and let the Army do with them what they want. The Army has a ton of opportunities, some of them just take a bit of leg work.

If you put as much drive and motivation into your new job as you did this re-class process, I'm sure you will be a tremendous asset to the U.S. Army and the country in general.


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## Brill (Jul 16, 2012)

Dude, you got a school slot. GRADUATE and then you will earn the "atta boy". So far, you navigated through some red tape.


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 16, 2012)

lindy said:


> Dude, you got a school slot. GRADUATE and then you will earn the "atta boy". So far, you navigated through some red tape.


 
I don't need any "atta boys", my credentials speak for themselves; I was merely trying to help others so they didn't have to go through the same headache.

BTW: I WILL graduate, it can't be any harder mentally for a computer nerd than SF is physically for a jock....


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## goon175 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well...word on the street is that SF is pretty hard even for the 'jocks'.... sooo....


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 16, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Well...word on the street is that SF is pretty hard even for the 'jocks'.... sooo....


 
Challenging yet feasible.


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## Brill (Jul 16, 2012)

HackTheCloud said:


> I don't need any "atta boys", my credentials speak for themselves...



Yes, I know. Now will you please unlock my Yahoo account?!?


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 16, 2012)

lindy said:


> Yes, I know. Now will you please unlock my Yahoo account?!?


 
Sure, here is the link to my new Yahoo/Facebook/Twitter/LinkedIn Password Unlocker. Just download and install: [http://www.Iamatrojanwithakeylogger...er.co.uk.de.in.us.onion.com/YahooUnlockerV1/]

Just joking ;)


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## HackTheCloud (Jul 16, 2012)

It actually tried to send this link to a TOR (onion) site. Sorry didn't know that  this site auto-linked bracketed URLs. Here was the joke:

[http(colon)//www(dot)IamatrojanwithakeyloggerandIcanwatchyouthroughyourwebcam(dot)freemoneyfromnigerianfamilyyouneverknewyouhadjustwiremoneytome.123.956nigeriahacker(dot)co(dot)uk(dot)de(dot)in(dot)us(dot)onion(dot)com/YahooUnlockerV1/]


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## RFC4824 (Jun 12, 2013)

If anyone is looking for more information on this MOS or wanting to talk to others that have already classed into it, I suggest you join the 35Q Group on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/35quebec/ The process of reclassing into this job is well covered as well as example paperwork required to gain this job if you are currently enlisted.


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## Brill (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm sure the Chinese and Russians are followers of that site.  Not the smartest idea I've heard.


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## RFC4824 (Jun 12, 2013)

I am sure they are, or more likely they fully mirror every social networking site on the internet for later research; luckily the group mentions nothing that isn't already available through several official unclassified sources (albeit spread about all over the internet), and much less operational details than the MOS's Training Battalion Facebook page.  Consider this group as an unofficial FAQ and collection of experiences of what it takes to enlist for or reclass into 35Q.


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## Florida173 (Jun 20, 2013)

lindy said:


> All you SSE fanatics will notice the gear in the picture!
> 
> http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/...cle_bc767f5c-2ea4-58a8-9da1-f68a53db5320.html
> 
> In the fall, AACC will offer a degree in cyber forensics for the first time




Always had issues with the fact that an Israeli company makes it.. or at least the common model used.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 20, 2013)

HackTheCloud said:


> Sure, here is the link to my new Yahoo/Facebook/Twitter/LinkedIn Password Unlocker. Just download and install: [LOL}
> 
> Just joking ;)



Pretty clever....

Sometimes I send people email's with spongeb@imwithyermom.com email addy in my sig block.....classic funny stuff if you rock a pocket protector....

Congrats on the new JOB....


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## pardus (Jun 20, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> Always had issues with the fact that an Israeli company makes it.. or at least the common model used.



Why?


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## Florida173 (Jun 20, 2013)

pardus said:


> Why?



I dunno.. Arabs must have a thing against Israeli equipment being used against them or something..


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## pardus (Jun 21, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> I dunno.. Arabs must have a thing against Israeli equipment being used against them or something..



And anyone gives a fuck why? I'd have a Rabbi bless my rounds if I could.


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## Florida173 (Jun 21, 2013)

pardus said:


> And anyone gives a fuck why? I'd have a Rabbi bless my rounds if I could.



I didn't much care either


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