# Poll: EOTech vs. ACOG vs. Aimpoint vs. ?



## JBS (Dec 28, 2012)

The TOE is MOUT / built up areas. T0 be employed indoor and outdoor, all weather, day or night.

In your experience, which do you prefer? In all cases, it is assumed that you'll always have flip up /iron sights as a back up so they are not included as an option in the poll.

The platform/weapons system-is the M-4 / AR-15 class of weapon.

The areas of consideration are as follows:

1. Ruggedness / reliability/ durability
2. Speed of acquiring sight picture / ease of acquiring sight picture
3. accuracy
4. widest range of applications/ all around versatility
5. other considerations per personal experience*

If you were advising* a security team*, or *an individual* (interested in personal security under extreme conditions), which direction would you recommend?

*You may select more than one device, but please specify order of preference.*


----------



## AWP (Dec 28, 2012)

My only experience is with Aimpoints and a 1-4 scope. With that said:
1-4x scope (or the Leupold 1-8 CQBSS)
-then-
Aimpoint

Either would have these for iron sights:
http://www.dueckdefense.com/gun-sight-specs.asp


----------



## policemedic (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm currently running an Eotech HWS in front of their 3x flip away magnifier with LWRC irons as BUIS.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 28, 2012)

I have used an EoTech 511 for about 8 years (and I was really hard on it), it recently failed me during a course I was teaching. I am debating on replacing it with an Aimpoint T1 (2 moa dot) or an EoTech XPS 2. Due to all the AWB craziness I have not spent a lot of time to researching both optics yet. A few of my students have run both optics in my classes, I have gotten to use both optics during courses of fire, and I can say I lean more towards the EoTech XPS2 just out of familiarity, but I really do like the battery life on the H1 & T1.

The reason I bought an EoTech in the first place, was because I had broken two issue M68 Aimpoints during a deployment. I finished out that deployment with an ACOG TA31F, and I cannot say enough good about ACOG optics. Love them! I came home and decided on the EoTech due to cost and recommendations from others. Outside of replacing batteries a lot the EoTech has been great. I did have the 512 with AA bat’s on my last deployment and bat life was much better than the 511. However, I really like the 123 bat on the Eo XPS 2.

Anyway, I would say that there is enough data out on the H1 & T1’s to say they are one of the best red-dot optics out on the market. EoTech has a reputation of burning up batteries and the older models like my 511 have issues with battery connection failing during recoil, thus causing the reticle to disappear (and it sucks when it happens as you are demoing a drill to a class). The XPS models are supposed to eliminate that with the 123 bat being loaded sideways into the optic vs inline with the recoil.

ETA: also keep in mind that the T1/H1 will require buying a new mount in order to mount it to an AR15 ($600+ for the optic + another $75-150 for a good mount). vs the EoTech XPS (about $500-550) will bolt right onto the gun. The 123 bats are cheap and found just about anywhere, and probably will be the same bat's in your tac-light.


----------



## moobob (Dec 28, 2012)

I like the Elcan 1-4x with Docter on top for its versatility. Hard to beat the Eotech for target acquisition though.


----------



## SgtUSMC8541 (Dec 29, 2012)

I have two... an Aimpoint PRO which I am very happy with , and an AGOC TA-31.  I use each on a reg basis's.  I also have an Aimpoint Comp 2 and two EOTechs.  The EOTech and Comp2's have been great, but..... ACOG with 45 degree Iron Sights are my fav.  Then the Aimpoint PRO.


----------



## LimaOscarSierraTango (Dec 29, 2012)

I've run the Aimpoint CompM2 on the conventional side and on my personal weapon.  I've also had experience with the ACOG TA01 for SDM and on my personal weapon for a short time.  An EoTech (512?) and Elcan 1x-4x on ranges with 19th. 

In my experience for CQB, my first choice would be the EoTech and second choice would be the CompM2.  I wasn't really a fan of the Elcan, although I know a lot of people like it.  I didn't get to spend a lot of time with it and wonder if my opinion would change with more exposure.

From my experience, I think the EoTech excels at speed of acquiring sight picture / ease of acquiring sight picture, accuracy, and versatility.  In a MOUT situation, I feel as though in most situations, you really won't need any magnification (unless you are pulling security outside and looking in windows/rooftops of other buildings).  The CompM2 is pretty rugged.  I can't say I've put any of the other optics through it's paces like I have the CompM2. 

I do have limited experience with these, but that's my take on it.


----------



## Squidward (Dec 29, 2012)

Have used ACOG, EOtech, Aimpoint, and Elcan Specter. Of all my choice would be the Elcan or a rifle scope with similar capabilities for an all-around optic.

Have used one for both M4 (1-4x) and SCAR (1.5-6x), and even without a docter sight with an illuminated reticle (either center dot or reticle plus stadia lines) quick sight acquisition is definitely do-able with practice. I really enjoy the throw lever magnification adjustment as well. It's an attempt to merge capability of a red dot or holographic at <50m and the capability of an ACOG at >50m, and I think it does this quite well. Versatility is the definite plus here. Tube holds up to abuse very well. No shift in zero after being knocked around on mission. Battery life on the reticle is good as well. Optic is easy to attach and detach as well with cantilevers.

Cost is a bit steep in the civilian world. There are other options out there though that bring the same capabilities to the table for a lot less. One option is the Burris Tac30 (1-4x) with an illuminated reticle. Highly underrated optic, and is worth a lot more than it's sold for.

My .02 cents


----------



## reed11b (Dec 29, 2012)

I like ACOG based on the multiple times of "wait, is that a broom or an AK?" situations I have seen. I also like that it does not need a battery. As far as fast target site picture, I did better with the red dot then the EOtech, but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority on that one.
Reed
P.S. I would love to try out the Elcan.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 29, 2012)

I have an Aimpoint and am happy with it.
I'd like an ACOG for the second rifle (if I ever build it) or a leupold MK4 CQT, but $1K for an optic is a little out of my range for now.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 29, 2012)

I voted other.

As a civilian of any sort, identification of a threat will be a big thing as well as being able to engage at range... yet CQB type stuff is still a possibility.

The Trijicon Accupoints are available for a reasonable price, about as much as what you would pay for an Aimpoint, magnifier, and mounts for both. They vary in style but are all sturdy, and I would go with the one I have had in the past... 2.5-10x56. Tritium and fiberoptics mean the center dot which is highly visible in all light conditions is functional for CQM work, and the ability to increase magnification for distance work is a great thing.

ACOG's are ok, you can use them in CQM fine if you practice. ELCAN's are nice as well, but you could scope 2 rifles, with rings... for what you'd pay for one of either of those as a general rule... If cost is also a concern.

Even at 2.5x the center dot on an accupoint regardless of ambient lighting is bright enough to be able to do your standard both eyes open reflexive fire with a decent sight picture, and even if you don't get totally up on the scope, you're putting rounds where you put that dot... and the further the target is, the more opportunity you have (if you've got a brain) to be able to make a good shot, increase magnification, etc.


----------



## pardus (Dec 30, 2012)

Ranger Psych said:


> Trijicon Accupoints .


 

I wish they had range estimation in the reticle.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 30, 2012)

if you were an expert infantryman, it does......... boooooom


----------



## pardus (Dec 30, 2012)

Ranger Psych said:


> if you were an expert infantryman, it does......... boooooom


 
lol fucker. What am I missing?


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 30, 2012)

pardus said:


> lol fucker. What am I missing?


This maybe?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 30, 2012)

aww, snap, even the Air Force knows... how's that feel


----------



## pardus (Dec 31, 2012)

Ah... 

I didn't realize they had a mil dot reticle.


----------



## Kettenhund (Jun 3, 2015)

Hmm, I'm glad I performed a search on the topic of "optics".  I own an Elcan Spector OS4.  It has the SFOV4-C1 reticle and I wish it had the chevron SFOV4-A1 instead.  Great piece of glass.  Great light gathering capability and crystal clear optics.  It's heft is just a little much and sometimes it feels like it's just too much scope.  I like this optic better on my Bushmaster ACR.  I was thinking of going ACOG with my 16 inch mid block AR .  Any opinions on the TA31RCO-G??


----------



## Etype (Jun 13, 2015)

pardus said:


> I wish they had range estimation in the reticle.


0-200 you don't need range estimation for headshots, and 0-300 you don't need it for torsos...

You could do a pretty good job guessing those two, much farther than that and it's time for a something other than an AR.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 13, 2015)

I have to agree with that, and is no small part of why my personally owned rifle is a .308 battle rifle.


----------



## x SF med (Jun 13, 2015)

Agree with RP, .308 for my battle rifle and my glassed bolt gun.


----------



## Etype (Jun 16, 2015)

x SF med said:


> Agree with RP, .308 for my battle rifle and my glassed bolt gun.


.308 bolt gun???? That's SO 2006!


----------



## x SF med (Jun 16, 2015)

Etype said:


> .308 bolt gun???? That's SO 2006!




It hits, pretty damn hard with 168 - 180 gr Nosler B match grades....  the 155 mil not as easily placed.  and the bolt gun is sooooooooooo 1956....  like a pre 64 Win Mod 70 FW.....


----------



## AWP (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't want to hear another word the next time there's a computer discussion.


----------



## x SF med (Jun 17, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> I don't want to hear another word the next time there's a computer discussion.


We're military... we are supposed to know our gunz n bullits n scopes n stuff... GUNZ trump 'puters, you lose, nice try...  gun geeks can shoot the 'puter geeks from distance, before you can stop our credit cards to replenish the ammo used....  So there....


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2015)

x SF med said:


> We're military... we are supposed to know our gunz n bullits n scopes n stuff... GUNZ trump 'puters, you lose, nice try...  gun geeks can shoot the 'puter geeks from distance, before you can stop our credit cards to replenish the ammo used....  So there....



Or just DF your TX and use your own location as an airstrike location since we already broke your crypto.


----------



## x SF med (Jun 17, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Or just DF your TX and use your own location as an airstrike location since we already broke your crypto.


pfffffffffffffffffffffft............ be quiet, you are schizophrenic and are both a gun and 'puter geek....


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2015)

The voices I hear are real, dammit...


----------



## Brill (Jun 17, 2015)

x SF med said:


> We're military... we are supposed to know our gunz n bullits n scopes n stuff... GUNZ trump 'puters, you lose, nice try...  gun geeks can shoot the 'puter geeks from distance, before you can stop our credit cards to replenish the ammo used....  So there....



Oh?

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR780.html


----------



## Etype (Jun 19, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> The voices I hear are real, dammit...


If you can hear them, they're real.

It's like breast implants- if you can touch them, they're real!


----------



## Kettenhund (Jun 20, 2015)

Thanks for your replies.  You guys are right.  if I'm looking to take 500 yard shots, I'd use my M1A.  If I was going to be taking 500 yard target shots with my AR, perhaps the above mentioned scope would not be best choice.  I suppose I was looking a a "one size fits all" type scope.  Something I could take to the range and air it out with some distance, when I wanted to, as well as something to use at 3-gun matches when I want.

After some research, I went with the Trijicon 4x32 M150.  Fiber-optic & Tritium Green chevron.  I swapped out the mount for a GG&G quick disconnect type.  I like GG&G stuff, not a knock on LaRue, by any means.  The optic with flashkill and flip front front scope cover cost me $1248 with free shipping.  That's the best price I found.  I've get to get it to the range but my initial opinions are very favorable.  Very easy targeting and very good clarity at dusk. 

Sepp


----------

