# Marine Corps Wants to Put Silencers on a Whole Infantry Battalion



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 24, 2016)

Interesting -

Admittedly I do not have a ton of experience using surpressors, but don't they get awful hot under continuous fire?  Especially rapid fire?  Also, it seems that they need to be cleaned pretty often.

Corps Wants to Put Silencers on a Whole Infantry Battalion | Military.com

In a series of experiments this year, units from 2nd Marine Division will be silencing every element of an infantry battalion -- from M4 rifles to .50 caliber machine guns.

The commanding general of 2nd Marine Division, Maj. Gen. John Love, described these plans during a speech to Marines at the Marine Corps Association Ground Dinner this month near Washington, D.C.

The proof-of-concept tests, he said, included Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines, which began an Integrated Training Exercise pre-deployment last month at Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms.

"What we've found so far is it revolutionizes the way we fight," Love told Military.com. "It used to be a squad would be dispersed out over maybe 100 yards, so the squad leader couldn't really communicate with the members at the far end because of all the noise of the weapons. Now they can actually just communicate, and be able to command and control and effectively direct those fires."


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2016)

We had the surefire suppressors in the scout plt in 2003. I think they should be more readily available for grunts, but I don't see them running around with a suppressor mounted all the time. Night patrols, recons, LP/OP's ,etc, shit where a barking dog may give away your position. But just daily use, I don't see the need.


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## gafkiwi (Nov 24, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> We had the surefire suppressors in the scout plt in 2003. I think they should be more readily available for grunts, but I don't see them running around with a suppressor mounted all the time. Night patrols, recons, LP/OP's ,etc, shit where a barking dog may give away your position. But just daily use, I don't see the need.



Thinking the same thing. Our DMW's (LMT MWS) come with Surefire Suppressors and they are generally attached as part of night routine in Rifle Sections as well as fitting up NVE etc prior to darkness. If guys are in a static position, OP's etc they "Can up" especially given the Surefire breaks are fine for the firer but nasty to anyone left or right. On the end of a 20" barrel, that's a lot of length, on the end of a 14.5-16" its manageable but I wouldn't want it fitted as a rule without good reason. All it would take is a solid trip or a drop to stuff the mount, the can or both and you probably wouldn't realize until you pulled the trigger.


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## digrar (Nov 24, 2016)

I hear the Australian Army will be getting suppressors for all rifles, some time soon.


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## Blizzard (Nov 25, 2016)

Wonder what suppressor will be used for testing?  Interesting the primary driver cited for the POC is to address effectiveness of squad communications.  While sound is obviously suppressed; many/most are still loud enough that ears are needed, especially under continuous exposure.  Granted, noise is better dissipated outside in the open, as opposed to indoors, but will the noise reduction really have a dramatic impact on the goal of increased effectiveness of communications?  Assume they'll keep supersonic ammo.

Heat is a concern, especially under full auto but, maybe more importantly, cleaning becomes more critical as fouling also becomes an issue.  There are venting solutions that aid in reducing fouling but they also add to the overall cost, which can't be trivial - especially on a large scale.  These aren't things that can't be overcome; they simply require greater diligence and $.   It will be interesting to hear how this POC works in a widespread/battalion-size roll-out where there are greater variances.

On the other hand, if a "quieter" weapon is really desired, why not put out a RFP for a new design that permanently integrates this in the weapon design?


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## TLDR20 (Nov 25, 2016)

There is something to be said about the sound of a 240B banging away.


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## Gunz (Nov 25, 2016)

There were times I couldn't hear orders being shouted. And times when the guy next to me was banging away close to my ears. So I can see some benefits of suppressors. In a night action in fairly close quarters--say within 100 yards--both you and your enemy are looking for muzzle flash and listening for bang direction to locate targets...and the Pig Handler sometimes gets special attention.

But on the other hand, nothing like your belt-fed weapon, unsuppressed, to give concern to your enemy and reassurance to your friends.


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## Etype (Nov 25, 2016)

Suppressed M4s are still pretty loud, due to the supersonic bullet- so you won't get away with picking off dogs or sentries silently.

One big positive is that you are always aware of who is shooting- unsuppressed is enemy suppressed is friendly. This comes in handy, big time.

Additionally, as @Ocoka One had mentioned, the noise of all your friends around you shooting destroys your situational awareness. There's also been some studies done lately on the hormonal stress response caused by loud noises, suppressors may help you stay calm in a stressful situation.


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## DA SWO (Nov 25, 2016)

Etype said:


> Suppressed M4s are still pretty loud, due to the supersonic bullet- so you won't get away with picking off dogs or sentries silently.
> 
> One big positive is that you are always aware of who is shooting- unsuppressed is enemy suppressed is friendly. This comes in handy, big time.
> 
> Additionally, as @Ocoka One had mentioned, the noise of all your friends around you shooting destroys your situational awareness. There's also been some studies done lately on the hormonal stress response cause by loud noises, suppressors may help you stay calm ina stressful situation.


Add long-term hearing loss (and VA Dollars buying hearing aids) and something like this becomes a good idea.


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## gafkiwi (Nov 26, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Add long-term hearing loss (and VA Dollars buying hearing aids) and something like this becomes a good idea.


They are or soon going to be a standard requirement for our Police Force's M4 variants incl general duties rifles. From a National Police HQ point of view its a Occupational Health and Safety reasoning, no other


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## SpitfireV (Nov 26, 2016)

AOS/STG have had them for years due clan labs and I think that's a good idea to chuck them on GDB's ones too.


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## gafkiwi (Nov 26, 2016)

Yeah, especially with the way OSH is in the work place is now it makes a lot of sense. Also with Officers who do very little shooting as it is, it would make them a little less gun shy when it does that loud thing it does as well as being more pleasant to shoot. Hopefully they match a good can to the rifle and ammo, or else they will end up with more issues from a bad combo.
I wonder if they will eventually follow the NZDF and go over to a LMT MARS-L but in semi. All the NZDF one's have Surefire WARCOMP breaks and units with a requirement have the QD suppressors to go with them.


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## Gunz (Nov 26, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Add long-term hearing loss (and VA Dollars buying hearing aids) and something like this becomes a good idea.



Yeah, that's me. My left ear is worthless. Mostly due to a grenade...but all that shooting has taken a toll.

But suppressors aren't cheap. If it ever came down to issuing suppressors Corps-wide.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 26, 2016)

[Q


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## Blizzard (Nov 26, 2016)

Even suppressed, under sustained fire with supersonic rounds, hearing damage is likely to varying degrees.  Without moving to a subsonic round, it's still going to be loud.

It may be a slight tangent but to mitigate hearing loss concerns and enhance communications, seems concepts could be further developed:
Etymotic HD-15 electronic earplugs only block the loud noises
These Amazing, Futuristic Earbuds Will Allow You to Filter out Specific Sounds Around You

It wouldn't be inexpensive, but as pointed out earlier, neither is the long term cost to the VA.


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## BloodStripe (Nov 26, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> You would think that a military contract for suppressors might just bring the price/unit down. Hell PETrump is a business man, I can see him on the phone nearly dictating what the price/lot will be, or the company can stay with gun store customers.



If you find  solicitation on FedBizOpps for silencers, you can search FPDS for the dollar value of the awards if no award notice was posted to FedBizOpps.


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## DA SWO (Nov 26, 2016)

Biggest issue (IMO) are all the proprietary flash hiders.
Develop a standard flash hider and let industry submit their designs.


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## AWP (Nov 26, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Biggest issue (IMO) are all the proprietary flash hiders.
> Develop a standard flash hider and let industry submit their designs.



Which means if the Army's involved they will just steal a design like they did with OCP and Crye.


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## Etype (Nov 26, 2016)

One issue that's always unforseen is injuries due to suppressors.  New guys to the unit are always burning their legs on hot suppressors.


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## SpitfireV (Nov 27, 2016)

gafkiwi said:


> Yeah, especially with the way OSH is in the work place is now it makes a lot of sense. Also with Officers who do very little shooting as it is, it would make them a little less gun shy when it does that loud thing it does as well as being more pleasant to shoot. Hopefully they match a good can to the rifle and ammo, or else they will end up with more issues from a bad combo.
> I wonder if they will eventually follow the NZDF and go over to a LMT MARS-L but in semi. All the NZDF one's have Surefire WARCOMP breaks and units with a requirement have the QD suppressors to go with them.



Are the LMTs carbon fibre like the Bushmasters are? IIRC that was one of the big drawcards so female constables could hold them for longer periods compared to the Rem700s they replaced. So far they seem to have put reasonable quality gear on them so hopefully that carries on.


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## gafkiwi (Nov 27, 2016)

SpitfireV said:


> Are the LMTs carbon fibre like the Bushmasters are? IIRC that was one of the big drawcards so female constables could hold them for longer periods compared to the Rem700s they replaced. So far they seem to have put reasonable quality gear on them so hopefully that carries on.



Didn't realise they went to those, all the general duties Bushmasters I've en counted were standard alloy types. A change to LMT would make sense for them in the long run, Both STG and AOS already use the 7.62mm LMT MWS and the STG apparently went to a version of the CQB 16 to replace their M4's a while back. That was before the NZDF selected them. The MARS-L was a post trials development to the CQB 16.


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## SpitfireV (Nov 27, 2016)

gafkiwi said:


> Didn't realise they went to those, all the general duties Bushmasters I've en counted were standard alloy types. A change to LMT would make sense for them in the long run, Both STG and AOS already use the 7.62mm LMT MWS and the STG apparently went to a version of the CQB 16 to replace their M4's a while back. That was before the NZDF selected them. The MARS-L was a post trials development to the CQB 16.



Ah, I've fucked up here. Someone told me years ago they were CF and when I- all too briefly until being called away- had a look at one a while back I noticed it was very light so I think I unintentionally confirmed bad info in my mind . But I spoke to one of the cops last night and he was saying they were metal receivers. My mistake!


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## gafkiwi (Nov 27, 2016)

Can be an easy mistake to make. Especially after being used to military rifles with all their add ons, clean AR's/patrol rifles can feel pretty light or a very different balance.


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## BloodStripe (Nov 27, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Which means if the Army's involved they will just steal a design like they did with OCP and Crye.



Without reading the contract, if one of the technical data clauses were used, the Army owns it.


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## SierraWave (Jan 21, 2021)

Looks like the Marine Corps is going to expand this to the entire force:

Marine Corps to start widespread distribution of suppressors

They are citing better communication during combat engagements, but also less post-service hearing-loss claims as well.


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## Devildoc (Jan 21, 2021)

Less hearing loss?  Depends on what suppressors they use.  Surefire on a 7.62 is still freaking loud.


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## Gunz (Jan 21, 2021)

SierraDave said:


> Looks like the Marine Corps is going to expand this to the entire force:
> 
> Marine Corps to start widespread distribution of suppressors
> 
> *They are citing better communication during combat engagements, but also less post-service hearing-loss claims as well.*




Yep, everything I pointed out on page 1. Good for the Corps.

You've got a few generations of warfighters out here who can't hear what their wives are saying...Oh...wait...


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## Marauder06 (Jan 21, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Less hearing loss?  Depends on what suppressors they use.  Surefire on a 7.62 is still freaking loud.


Everyone's going to report hearing loss when they ETS anyway... ;)


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## Steve1839 (Jan 21, 2021)

Gunz said:


> You've got a few generations of warfighters out here who can't hear what their wives are saying...Oh...wait...


And the problem with that is...?


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## SierraWave (Jan 21, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Less hearing loss?  Depends on what suppressors they use.  Surefire on a 7.62 is still freaking lo


Does surprise me they cited hearing loss, since the services often don't seem to care what folks are burdened with post-service.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 21, 2021)

SierraDave said:


> Does surprise me they cited hearing loss, since the services often don't seem to care what folks are burdened with post-service.


Follow the money.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 21, 2021)

In the trials to replace the M4, a requirement for every weapon is the use of a suppressor.  So...


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