# The Secret War in Laos...sort of.



## I:N (Sep 28, 2012)

My dad was an immigrant from Laos after the Vietnam War. His father and two brothers fought in the Laos War alongside American SF. They were both killed in combat but my dad was old enough for combat training in that time(preteens), and told me of unspeakable horror stories from his time during the war(stories that aren't for sharing). He did for a fact fight. For this, my family was one selected to come to America. My mom divorced my dad when I was 2 and I grew up seeing him every other weekend. When I was 11 he came to see me where I was staying with my mom, something he had never done before. He told me he had to leave for a while and it would be dangerous for him. I haven't seen or heard from him since.(It has been 10 years)

My mom(who is white) has always been defensive when I ask her if my dad was in the military. She would always talk really fast and brush it off as if I had never brought it up. I think he was in the military because he wore dogtags. He also spoke 5 different languages including French and Chinese. My dad had a huge scar on his abdomen that my mom would never tell me what from. He on the other hand would always laugh and say it was from a time when he killed a man, but I always thought he was joking. He had many white and black friends and occasionally well built guys would come over with guns. They would all go shooting and sometimes I would go along with them. I always wished I could hit a bullseye with every shot like they could. One time one of my dad's friends showed me a picture of him with around 8 other guys(including my dad) standing in front of what appeared to be a helicopter. They all wore civilian apparel and held automatic rifles. As I got older I researched this helicopter and found it to be a UH-60 Black Hawk. 

I remember a time when I was around 8 years old, I was sitting in our car while my dad filled the car up with gas. A black man came up to him and started harassing us and trying to pick a fight with my dad. When the man didn't leave when my dad told him too, he said goodbye and started to get back into the car. The man tried to grab my dad and in less than a second I was leaning over the dashboard of the car looking down the hood to where the man had been laid out prostrate from my dad. I always asked him to teach me how to fight but he said it wasn't safe, but when I was older I could learn. 
The next day cops came and interviewed us about what happened. Turns out, the man had broken his arm in two places and had a fracture to the skull which they said my dad had done. Nothing happened since the gasstation surveillance was up and the man was seen to be the one to start the fight. 

One of his old friends who I recently found out to be a retired Army SF First Sgt, claims he doesn't remember me or my family, especially my dad. I know this is Bull since this guy was AT MY PARENTS WEDDING! I mean he's in a picture for crying out loud, and my mom remembers him. Every time I tell him this, he says it wasn't him and i'm mistaking him for someone else. Well since he wants to be that way I left him alone after the second call. What the hell.. 

I'm trying to figure out what happened to my dad. Is there a chance that he could have been in the Military? Did the Army recruit Laotian operatives who fought in Laos during that time? Unfortunately I can't find any information about this anywhere online. Also, if my dad WAS in the military and died in combat wouldn't they have let me and my mom know? 

P.S. To this day my mom will not talk about my father and the military.


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## RackMaster (Sep 28, 2012)

I:N Please follow the site rules and post an intro in the appropriate thread.

Also DO NOT start multiple identical threads in different subforums.


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## I:N (Sep 28, 2012)

RackMaster said:


> I:N Please follow the site rules and post an intro in the appropriate thread.
> 
> Also DO NOT start multiple identical threads in different subforums.


Understood! Won't happen again.


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## roninsthao85 (Apr 26, 2014)

Revised: Regarding the Secret War in Laos which was a program under the CIA, it was a designed to prevent communism from spreading into Laos, Thailand, & so on. The operation also had other tasks such as bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail to either destroy or slow down the flow of the NVA & Vietcong. The local indigenous forces were the Hmong (Miao), Thai mercenaries, Lao mercenaries, & so on. The operation slowed down the flow of logistics with the North Vietnamese & saved countless numbers of American lives. Once America pulled out, the indigenous forces which whomever did not manage to flee to Thailand were exterminated. Even today, there is a hills people insurgency still in Laos. Soldiers of the exiled Royal Lao Army can not return due to death threats.


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## DA SWO (Apr 26, 2014)

Go to amazon.com
There are numerous books regarding operations in Laos.


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## pardus (Sep 27, 2014)

I recentlty met a guy who fought in Laos. I asked him when he was there and he said '62 - '63 ish. I thought that was very interesting and we chatted for some time about it. 
One thing he told me was that his service over there was purged from his record due to the secrecy of that particular theater (and apparently they had prices on their heads over there) which has screwed him out of any help with issues from the VA. He also had to sign an NDA which has prevented him from making official requests to have his record restored.
Now he could be BS'ing me but from my interaction with him and talking to other guys who know him, he seems like a stand up guy.
Interesting nonetheless.


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## AWP (Sep 27, 2014)

pardus said:


> I recentlty met a guy who fought in Laos. I asked him when he was there and he said '62 - '63 ish. I thought that was very interesting and we chatted for some time about it.


 
62 - 63?

http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/334.html#334.5.9


> *History:* Established April 24, 1961, pursuant to an agreement among United States, Cambodia, France, Laos, and Vietnam for mutual defense assistance in Indochina, concluded December 23, 1950. Abolished October 1962, pursuant to Geneva Accords on removal of all foreign military forces from Laos.


 
http://www.psywarrior.com/LaosPSYOP.html



> Lieutenant Colonel (LTC) “Bull” Simons was the Commander of the first team inserted in July 1959, code-named Hotfoot. He had selected, organized and trained Special Forces “A” teams from the 77th Special Forces Group (Airborne) based at Fort Bragg, NC. The mission was initially code-named Ambidextrous. All personnel were given intensive training and cross training. All personnel took daily language lessons in both French and Laotian. Once inside Laos, the teams were regularly replaced about every six months. Team II arrived in June 1960 commanded by LTC Magnus L. Smith. In November 1960, Team IV took over, commanded by LTC John Little, and on 28 January 61 it was augmented with a 12-man Psywar team under LTC Chuck Murray. In April of 1961, Team V replaced Team IV and was renamed White Star. In October 1961 LTC Bull Simons took command again. At its peak on 23 July 1962 when a Declaration of Neutrality was signed, the White Star strength was 433.
> In 1962 a Geneva accord was signed that guaranteed the neutrality of Laos and called for all foreign soldiers to leave. The United States removed its 666 Special Forces advisors. The North Vietnamese considered it a great political victory and sent in more troops. Averell Harriman, Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs said:
> North Vietnam broke the 1962 agreements before the ink was dry.


 
I'm not calling Jay Carney, but he would be a part of a VERY small group of men, almost all tied to SF or the CIA.


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## pardus (Sep 28, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> 62 - 63?
> 
> I'm not calling Jay Carney, but he would be a part of a VERY small group of men, almost all tied to SF or the CIA.



I could have the years wrong, but it was definitely 60's and definitely pre '65, which made me do a doubletake.

He was there to maintain/teach Laos on helicopters as his official job, but also went out with/under CIA guys to patrol in the J.

He showed me a history book series that had a section on Mercenary Pilots in Laos, he showed me a photo of an airfield that he operated out of, and had me read it. Fascinating stuff.
Again, sounds a little far fetched but back then the CIA was doing some dodgy covert shit, so... I don't know.


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## AWP (Sep 28, 2014)

Christopher Robbins' _Ravens: Pilots of the Secret War in Laos_ is an excellent book on Air America's adventures in country. Anyone instructing Laotians would fall under the MAAG or the CIA.


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## HAMMER11 (Sep 28, 2014)

Most likely "White Star."  Everyone had to sign DNA's, even when I was there.


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## pardus (Sep 28, 2014)

I should say that this guy was not SF or anything like that. He was a helicopter tech Army I think, maybe AF. Who was simply grabbed as the CIA etc... where short handed, to conduct patrols/ambushes etc...


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2014)

HAMMER11 said:


> Most likely "White Star."  Everyone had to sign DNA's, even when I was there.


When are you going to write your book? I will be first in line...


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## DA SWO (Sep 28, 2014)

pardus said:


> I should say that this guy was not SF or anything like that. He was a helicopter tech Army I think, maybe AF. Who was simply grabbed as the CIA etc... w*here short handed, to conduct patrols/ambushes etc*...


Meh, maybe.
If you were SF would you grab some random mechanic to go out and run ambushes?


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## HAMMER11 (Sep 28, 2014)

White Star started in 59, working out of TL.  They had AF, Army, and CIA (CIA op to begin with.)  Supposedly training Lao and Thi "indigenous personnel."


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## pardus (Sep 28, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Meh, maybe.
> If you were SF would you grab some random mechanic to go out and run ambushes?



Well considering most of the guys were Laotian militia and he was supposedly with CIA, I could see it being possible. I had the same offer made to me by SF when I was deployed...


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## 0699 (Sep 29, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Christopher Robbins' _Ravens: Pilots of the Secret War in Laos_ is an excellent book on Air America's adventures in country. Anyone instructing Laotians would fall under the MAAG or the CIA.


 
Yes, an excellent book.


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## Johca (Sep 30, 2014)

> *History:* Established April 24, 1961, pursuant to an agreement among United States, Cambodia, France, Laos, and Vietnam for mutual defense assistance in Indochina, concluded December 23, 1950. Abolished October 1962, pursuant to Geneva Accords on removal of all foreign military forces from Laos.



http://alaska.net/~jcassidy/pdf_files/PJs Korean War.pdf      pages 19 thru 23 gives some Laos operations histories primarily from 1964 to 1966, but in a much more smaller in numbers of these personnel  after 1966.   There are also various Lima Sites used primarily for supporting air strikes over North Vietnam and rescue operations too.


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