# China No Match for US, Militarily, Economically, Doesn't Intend to Challenge US



## formerBrat (May 19, 2011)

My first thoughts on some of the comments made would be, "BS", but then again that's a gut reaction and perhaps I"m overly suspicious.  I couldn't even begin to claim to be an expert on the region, however I did find the article interesting.  What do you some of y'all think?

When was the last time that the US and China held a joint military exercise, if ever?


> *Chinese General Says His Military Is No Match for US*
> 
> 
> May 19, 2011
> ...


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## Marauder06 (May 19, 2011)

_*Chinese General Says His Military Is No Match for US  (...yet)*_


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 19, 2011)

Political deception IMO, I have looked into China’s capabilities a lot over the past 4 years and although they may not have all of the capabilities we have they are very comparable. I expect them to bypass us in ground and air capabilities within the next 5 to 10 years.


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## Casimir (May 19, 2011)

I would agree with Jab...it is very common for Chinese people to use deception and flattery in many forms to lure their _potential_ competitors into thinking that they are not a threat of any kind. In business, politics, even in mundane relationships from what I've experienced.


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## formerBrat (May 19, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> _*Chinese General Says His Military Is No Match for US (...yet)*_



Exactly, let me say as a civilian with little to NO knowledge about the US Military's true capabilities other than what I have read and been told, I would definitely like to believe that nobody can match our military capabilities. Perhaps some naivety on my part, I can concede that. The cuts in budgets for defense spending for certain projects do concern me, however I also recognize that we as a country can't spend like the proverbial drunken sailor on shore leave either. (sorry for the cliche Navy personnel) 




JAB said:


> Political deception IMO, I have looked into China’s capabilities a lot over the past 4 years and although they may not have all of the capabilities we have they are very comparable. I expect them to bypass us in ground and air capabilities within the next 5 to 10 years.



I have read that as well JAB and thus my gut reaction to the statements made by the Chinese general.


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## DA SWO (May 19, 2011)

Good equipment and numbers can defeat Taiwan, the number one goal.
Asymetrical Warfare, they have an economic noose around our necks, and can hit infrastructure with a cyber attack.
They don't need to steam a Carrier Battle Group off the CA Coast to send a message.  Hell, they could launch a missile off our coast towards China and we wouldn't react.  ;)


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## DasBoot (May 19, 2011)

I'm from the same outside-looking- in world as Brat, but I do know China is still lacking in the force projection aspect, and is focused more on becoming the world's superpower through economic means, and that the utilization of their military will be as a regional power, a defense force and not a military with our capabilities. I cite George Friedman on this (The Next 100 Years is a great book).
I think we're too far ahead for anyone (especially in the world's economic state) to feasibly catch up with us. And with how interconnected our economies are, they don't need to rival us militarily in either nuclear capabilities or conventional forces. That’s my two cents. I think this will be a good thread!


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## dknob (May 31, 2011)

Nothing worries me in this life other than a China which has surpassed the US in military strength and capability. And influence.

It is something I foresee in the near future, and it makes my gut churn.


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## Rman (Jun 28, 2011)

Agreed, it is incredibly unsettling to see China grow that way it is as well as watch the US sink deeper into debt.  What really makes my stomach turn however is the ignorance of my generation.  For the most part, it is made up of people who are too self involved with facebook or twitter or the next trend to actually pay attention to the current state of out great country.  Further, my generation lacks intestinal fortitude to choose the right thing over the easy thing.  China, or any other country for that matter, will one day be able to walk through the door unchecked unless my peers wake up and realize that the world isn't fair and that they are not that important.  Blame MTV and Reality TV for giving my classmates a bull shit vision of the world or AYSO for giving every one who competed a trophy but regardless of fault, I fear we are in for some rough waters ahead.


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## Grey (Jun 28, 2011)

We have seen China challenge the US on a couple of occasions already. Mostly using the protection of its allies as excuse to push our buttons. Examples such as their statements about situations in Pakistan and North Korea. It is a taunt, and we cannot do anything about it.


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## SpitfireV (Jun 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> We have seen China challenge the US on a couple of occasions already. Mostly using the protection of its allies as excuse to push our buttons. Examples such as their statements about situations in Pakistan and North Korea. It is a taunt, and we cannot do anything about it.



What? Where did they "taunt" the US over DPRK?


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## Marauder06 (Jun 29, 2011)

Spratley's is another area of contention.  Lots of nervous people about those islands.  China is flexing...


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## AWP (Jun 29, 2011)

I think JAB and Casimir nailed it. We tend to forget who authored The Art of War (hint, it wasn't a round eye).

As Spitfire and I discussed elsewhere, a war with China is where our Beyond Visual Range capabilities in the air would come into play. We're banking heavily on F-22's  dropping several aircraft per sortie if we want to even the numbers. Don't forget that the Chinese military is shaped in part by the Soviet experiences in WWII and China's own experiences vs. NATO in Korea. They don't need the best equipment, the need good equipment and a lot of it. "Quantity has a quality all its own"

I think they are a generation or more away from projecting power beyond Asia. They lack the Navy to do much of anything. Their strength lies in their economy and cyberwarfare (like SOWT said).

I honestly see China going to war with the Russians before they would the US.


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## moobob (Jun 29, 2011)

Ahh yessuhhh. We Japanese have very small penis. Aww yes, so small. Nothing to fear from us, Mr. Huge Penis American.


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## Robal2pl (Jun 29, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> I honestly see China going to war with the Russians before they would the US.



You mean Siberia?

But there is another problem - China needs Russian weapon systems. Can reverse engineering (or even production of licensed copies) be a long-term solution?


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## Dame (Jun 29, 2011)

moobob said:


> Ahh yessuhhh. We Japanese have very small penis. Aww yes, so small. Nothing to fear from us, Mr. Huge Penis American.


I wanted to post that vid soooo badly.


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## AWP (Jun 29, 2011)

Robal2pl said:


> You mean Siberia?
> 
> But there is another problem - China needs Russian weapon systems. Can reverse engineering (or even production of licensed copies) be a long-term solution?



The Siberia which is inside of Russia?

The Chinese are carving out their own niche militarily and Russia is a more local threat than us PLUS they have some bad blood already.


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## Robal2pl (Jun 30, 2011)

Yes - but there is still another "front" of Chinese/Russian rivalisation - former soviet republics in Asia - Kazakhstan and other "-stans". It's mostly matter of economy, but would not be surprised when some day it becomes military problem....


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## Fritzy (Jun 30, 2011)

formerBrat said:


> When was the last time that the US and China held a joint military exercise, if ever?



Does this count as a joint military exercise (for the _Top Gun_ fans out there)?

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/cu...-awfully-similar-top-20110131-082655-037.html


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## Manolito (Jun 30, 2011)

http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2009/11/subnoise.php
China has two nuclear subs that are new. These have a sound signature louder than a Russian submarine in the 1970's.
There is an old addage quiet nuclear submarines and noisy targets. Look at what is available on the mark 48 torpedo and compare it to Chinas available http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu-6_torpedo weapons. What ever can be said about quantity overcomes quality, I am sure that does not apply to acoustic signature and capabilities.
Janes fighting ships gives a lot of good information.
There is a lot of debate about does China have a SOSUS line and how effective is it. I would not want to be in a Chinese submarine if war broke out with the US.
Respectfully,
Bill


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## Diablo (Jun 30, 2011)

I don't know guys,  I spent most of my military career gathering Intel on the Russians.  What I saw did not worry me.  The Chinese worry me.  One thing I learned from my 10 yrs of martial arts training is never...I mean never under estimate your opponent.   You go at them hard as you can, as strong & long as you can.  I fear that we are under estimating China and if we continue to do so we will suffer.   After I left the military I have continued to work for the Fed Gov  my organization is currently helping China to establish their airspace infrastructure, its like an IOU that the US is trying to make good on.  In the mean time these guys are ripping us off blind, I.E. recent Chinese stealth aircraft tested.  WTF?


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## Diablo (Jun 30, 2011)

Manolito said:


> http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2009/11/subnoise.php
> China has two nuclear subs that are new. These have a sound signature louder than a Russian submarine in the 1970's.
> There is an old addage quiet nuclear submarines and noisy targets. Look at what is available on the mark 48 torpedo and compare it to Chinas available http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu-6_torpedo weapons. What ever can be said about quantity overcomes quality, I am sure that does not apply to acoustic signature and capabilities.
> Janes fighting ships gives a lot of good information.
> ...



I would agree with you,  China is just starting to get into the sub game seriously.  I would be concerned though if the Russians are helping them.  Even so though,  the Soviets have already demonstrated that their reactor designs are flawed, so unless they have improved their nuclear reactor maintenanace procedures & designs they will stil fall short of Admr. Rickover's designs & procedures.


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## Manolito (Jun 30, 2011)

The one thing that hurt us during the cold war more than anything was the compromise of propeller technology through the Japanese. I would guess the Russians  still have some noise problems.


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## Diablo (Jun 30, 2011)

Manolito said:


> The one thing that hurt us during the cold war more than anything was the compromise of propeller technology through the Japanese. I would guess the Russians still have some noise problems.


Absolutely,  they have foolishly compromised themselves for gains that did not pay off.  
I choose not to elaborate further based on sensitivity.


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## Diablo (Jun 30, 2011)

Manolito said:


> The one thing that hurt us during the cold war more than anything was the compromise of propeller technology through the Japanese. I would guess the Russians still have some noise problems.



As of the late 90's they were still noisy, we could here them half a ocean away.


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## SpitfireV (Jun 30, 2011)

Manolito said:


> The one thing that hurt us during the cold war more than anything was the compromise of propeller technology through the Japanese. I would guess the Russians still have some noise problems.



And Walker.


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