# Navy Rating Modernization...



## SB0170 (Sep 29, 2016)

NAVADMIN 218/16

MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1/SEP//

SUBJ/NAVY RATING MODERNIZATION//

RMKS/1.  This NAVADMIN announces the first phase of a multi-year
implementation effort to transform current Navy Enlisted Career Management
processes.

2.  This modernization effort is the result of a review of Navy rating titles
completed this year by the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy and his
leadership mess.  As a result, the Secretary of the Navy announced that the
Navy will develop a new approach to enlisted ratings that provides greater
detailing flexibility, training and credentialing opportunities, and
ultimately translates Navy occupations more clearly to the American public. 
The intent is to transform our enlisted personnel business processes to
maximize talent management and career flexibility, while arming our Sailors
with superior training and widely recognized credentials that will convey to
the civilian workforce.

3.  Navy will move from Rating Titles to alpha-numeric Navy Occupational
Specialty (NOS) codes.  This change is a first step on the way to providing
Sailors the opportunity to move back and forth between occupations.  This
change represents a significant cultural shift and it is recognized that it
will not happen overnight, but will take time to become fully implemented.

4.  Effective immediately, enlisted Navy Sailors will be addressed by rank
vice by rating.  E1 through E3 Sailors will be addressed as "Seaman," E4
through E6 will be called "Petty Officer Third/Second/First Class" as
appropriate and senior enlisted paygrades of E7 through E9 will be called
"Chief, Senior Chief, or Master Chief" depending on their paygrade. For
example, a Sailor will no longer be called YN2.  Instead, he or she will be
called a "Second Class Petty Officer," or simply "Petty Officer."  There will
no longer be a distinction between "Airman, Fireman, and Seaman."  They will
all be "Seamen."  As we move toward a Navy where Sailors may hold multiple
occupations, rating titles will no longer be applicable.  Addressing our
Sailors by rank also brings us more in line with the other services.

5.  NOS codes will be grouped under logical and broader career fields.  These
career fields will enable flexibility to move between occupational
specialties within career fields and they will be tied to appropriate
training and qualifications.  Each NOS will be matched with similar civilian
occupations to enable the Navy to identify credentials and certifications
recognized and valued within the civilian workforce.  The Navy will
aggressively pursue opportunities for Sailors to earn credentials recognized
and held by their civilian counterparts and incorporate those credentials
into Sailors professional development.

6.  A working group was formed in July to identify personnel policies,
management programs, and information technology systems that may require
modification to support this effort. The working group has developed
recommendations and a plan of action and milestones to fully implement the
transformation to NOS.  Changes to personnel management processes, policies,
programs and systems will proceed in deliberate and thoughtful phases that
will enable transitions that are seamless and largely transparent to the
fleet.  Fleet involvement and feedback will be solicited during each phase of
the transformation.  All aspects of enlisted force management to include
recruiting, detailing, advancements, training, and personnel and pay
processes are being carefully considered as we move forward.

7.  This change is one step in a larger effort to modernize our personnel
systems, and will benefit all Sailors with greater career flexibility while
in the Navy and after they depart the Service.

8.  Released by Vice Admiral R. P. Burke, N1.//


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## Devildoc (Sep 29, 2016)

So....no more NEC?  Now it is a NOS?  And no more "HM1 Dingleberry"?  Now it is "Petty Officer First Class Dingleberry?"


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## Gunz (Sep 29, 2016)

Interesting. So SBO170, you are no longer a YN2, you are now Petty Officer Second. I like it.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2016)

SB0170 said:


> They will all be "Seamen."



This they keep. :-"


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## Brill (Oct 2, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This they keep. :-"



I was an E-5 at DLI with a Navy E-3 whose last name was Swallow. True story.

And...no, I don't know.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 2, 2016)

This seems pretty reasonable.  But many of my Navy friends seem upset about it?


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## TLDR20 (Oct 2, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> This seems pretty reasonable.  But many of my Navy friends seem upset about it?



Yeah I don't get it at all.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> This seems pretty reasonable.  But many of my Navy friends seem upset about it?



You think the Corps is obsessed with tradition?  We've got nothing on the Navy.

So much change in the past decade or so:

- Women on subs and now in combat roles

- Gays and Transgender serving openly

- redefining what constitutes hazing (I have a Navy buddy who's CO banned any type of ceremony for crossing the equator because he did not want any hazing accusations on his watch. )

- Now the changing of rank titles. With everything else that had changed, it does not surprise me that many sailors believe that this smells of the continued indoctrnation of political correctness into their Navy. 

Truth be told I don't have on opinion either way, but I can understand why some feel like the military is no longer the last bastion of the "tough guys club" and is being restructured to look more like corporate America.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 2, 2016)

I understand that.  I read through the message with a critical eye, looking for "social justice"-ing, and I just don't see it.  I think this gets the Navy more in line with the rest of the military.  Now if we could just get them to do something about the 30 uniforms they have in that one service... ;)


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## Scubadew (Oct 2, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Yeah I don't get it at all.



*Cheesy alert* , @TLDR20 

You're a Corpsman. You're proud to be a Corpsman. You are part of the most decorated rate in the U.S. military  with 23 Medal of Honors. You will go through hell and back for a wounded Marine and you bear the weight of the expectations that come with introducing yourself as a Corpsman.

Then one morning they remove the title because it's not gender neutral and tell you that your official title now is Medical Technician and also that all other rates have had their titles stripped.

It's just a title. It's nothing, but it's everything. My .02c


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2016)

@Freefalling -  I was not as clear in my point as I had intended. My attempted point was that with the onslaught of seemingly PC policies coming down the pipe, Sailors current and old are seeing something here that may or may not exist.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 2, 2016)

Previously you had an archaic rating system that was to be honest quite confusing. In the joint environment it is extra confusing. This doesn't seem like a PC move to me, but rather a much needed streamlining move.


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## Scubadew (Oct 2, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Previously you had an archaic rating system that was to be honest quite confusing. In the joint environment it is extra confusing. This doesn't seem like a PC move to me, but rather a much needed streamlining move.



I agree with simplifying the HM2/IT2 title etc stuff, but removing 'man' from the titles is strictly a PC movie.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 2, 2016)

Scubadew said:


> I agree with simplifying the HM2/IT2 title etc stuff, but removing 'man' from the titles is strictly a PC movie.



Oh. Do all corpsman work in the field, with Marines?


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## Scubadew (Oct 2, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Oh. Do all corpsman work in the field, with Marines?



No.


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## Devildoc (Oct 2, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Yeah I don't get it at all.



On the face of it it doesn't seem like a bad thing.  But as @Scubadew alluded, it's been the many hits the Navy has taken with regard to tradition.  I don't like it but my jury is out if it is going to amount to anything (good or bad).


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## Scubadew (Oct 2, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> On the face of it it doesn't seem like a bad thing.  But as @Scubadew alluded, it's been the many hits the Navy has taken with regard to tradition.  I don't like it but my jury is out if it is going to amount to anything (good or bad).



@TLDR20  , I really like moves towards creating a better joint environment. I'm with a joint unit right now and I definitely see where some changes will help. I just think a lot of positive things could have been done without gutting as much tradition as they did.


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## AWP (Oct 2, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @Freefalling -  I was not as clear in my point as I had intended. My attempted point was that with the onslaught of seemingly PC policies coming down the pipe, Sailors current and old are seeing something here that may or may not exist.



What? This is my first post in this thread.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 2, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> What? This is my first post in this thread.



Damn it!  I don't know why after all these years I still mix you and @Marauder06 up from time to time. My apologies to whichever of you is most offended!


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## AWP (Oct 2, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Damn it!  I don't know why after all these years I still mix you and @Marauder06 up from time to time. My apologies to whichever of you is most offended!



@Marauder06 by far.


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## Brill (Oct 3, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> What? This is my first post in this thread.



You've said too much already.


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## Gunz (Oct 3, 2016)

Scubadew said:


> *Cheesy alert* , @TLDR20
> 
> You're a Corpsman. You're proud to be a Corpsman. You are part of the most decorated rate in the U.S. military  with 23 Medal of Honors. You will go through hell and back for a wounded Marine and you bear the weight of the expectations that come with introducing yourself as a Corpsman.
> 
> ...




Marines will still call their Corpsmen, "Doc." _That _ain't going nowhere, Sailor. It's part of the lingo, like scuttlebutt, pogiebait and swab-jockey.


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## Devildoc (Oct 3, 2016)

Another article about the changes.  Honestly, it is all very confusing.  NEC's fall _within_ NOS's? 

The end of ratings: What's next in the Navy's radical enlisted shake-up


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## SB0170 (Oct 3, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Another article about the changes.  Honestly, it is all very confusing.  NEC's fall _within_ NOS's?
> 
> The end of ratings: What's next in the Navy's radical enlisted shake-up


I think that just means that NEC's aren't really changing.  So a BM1 with NEC 0170 is now (PO1) B400 with NEC 0170.  I can't say that I'm really a fan though...


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## Scubadew (Oct 3, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Marines will still call their Corpsmen, "Doc." _That _ain't going nowhere, Sailor. It's part of the lingo, like scuttlebutt, pogiebait and swab-jockey.



No doubt. It's funny because the boys haven't skipped a beat. It's just the Navy bitching about the change. We will see where this all leads.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 3, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> What? This is my first post in this thread.



....or is it?  



Ooh-Rah said:


> Damn it!  I don't know why after all these years I still mix you and @Marauder06 up from time to time. My apologies to whichever of you is most offended!



Freefalling is the one everyone thinks is a girl.  I'm the funny/witty one.  It's not that hard to keep straight.



Freefalling said:


> @Marauder06 by far.



On a serious note, not at all.   I think you have at least half again as much time as me downrange, and I have seven combat stripes.  That's a LOT of experience in the sandbox.  I'd be happy to have people confuse my relatively limited time in Afghanistan with yours.   #I'mFreefalling


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## Florida173 (Oct 4, 2016)

Agree on the idea that it's typically confusing in the joint community, although within each J shop you usually only ever had one or two rates to remember. I always thought it was weird referring to people as their rate though. I never knew what rank anyone was.

The big thing though that most of the people I'm working with right now is that they took their rate from them without the replacement. NOS I'm guessing isn't implemented yet. One of the guys was saying his eval that he just finished still had a rate in it too. 

If it's an antiquated system maybe it needs to be modernized, if not, why bother changing for the sake of changing.


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## Devildoc (Oct 13, 2016)

I am glad I was sitting down when I read this:

Medic Up? SecNav Hints at Future Corpsman Job Title | Military.com

So Corpsmen will be called....."medic."  Fuck you, CNO Richardson, Fuck YOU MCPON, and especially FUCK YOU, Mabus.


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## Scubadew (Oct 13, 2016)




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## SB0170 (Dec 20, 2016)

Ratings restored: Effective immediately, sailors will get their job titles back

Well that didn't last long...


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## Jay_Pew (Dec 20, 2016)

SB0170 said:


> Ratings restored: Effective immediately, sailors will get their job titles back
> 
> Well that didn't last long...



Definitely did not see that coming, glad to see their voices were heard by leadership.


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