# The China Thread (Threat)



## Marauder06 (Sep 5, 2015)

> In its widest-ranging and clearest message yet, China deployed naval forces inside the traditional 12-mile maritime limit of US territorial waters off the coast of Alaska… and they timed it to happen while President Obama was visiting the state earlier this month.



article


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## DA SWO (Sep 5, 2015)

Let me know if they do it in December or January, then I'll be impressed.


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## AWP (Sep 5, 2015)

Flexing muscle and testing our reaction. In a few years they'll own the Spratleys by default and this will be just another incident in our Flaccid Foreign Policy Olympics.


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## racing_kitty (Sep 5, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Flexing muscle and testing our reaction. In a few years they'll own the Spratleys by default and this will be just another incident in our Flaccid Foreign Policy Olympics.



I wouldn't be surprised. Nor would it surprise me if they mounted/stepped up efforts to foment native Hawaiian secessionist movements with the goal of owning that island chain, too.   Who cares if it's a state.


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## TheSiatonist (Sep 5, 2015)

Question for you folks: If this kind of thing happened during Pres. Reagan's term, what would he have done?


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## AWP (Sep 6, 2015)

TheSiatonist said:


> Question for you folks: If this kind of thing happened during Pres. Reagan's term, what would he have done?



Parked a CVBG off the coast and conducted "freedom of navigation" exercises. Possibly sent some B-52's to Clark. Maybe beefed up his rhetoric regarding the Spratleys and/ or sent the Marines to conduct joint training with their Philippine counterparts.

Ultimately China's so large what can we do? Given their grip on our economy, what can we do? They've placed themselves into the position to dictate policy to the US and every other nation. They have a long game, we're reactionary (that probably applies to the entire West).


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## pardus (Sep 6, 2015)

I recently heard an interview with a journalist who was an expert on China, he was saying that China's economy is taking a shit at the moment.
The manufacturing/exporting base is drying up/no longer effective at pushing the economy forward so they are scrambling to find other ways to keep it going.
IIRC he said the growth of China's economy had dropped from 10% t0 7% which is still pretty good.
It will be interesting to see if/how the changing Chinese economy will affect it's foreign/expansionist policy.

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords.


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## DA SWO (Sep 6, 2015)

TheSiatonist said:


> Question for you folks: If this kind of thing happened during Pres. Reagan's term, what would he have done?


Mild harassment of the ships off the Alaskan Coast.
Supersonic fly-byes during the night always work for me.


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## SpitfireV (Sep 6, 2015)

I'd like to see some proof that the timing was deliberate. I've not seen any articles that show that (it would be hard to prove either way but an assumption made from dates and times would go a long way). Going that close to the US is definitely a deliberate political move but to what extent it is intended to coincide with the Presidential tour I think it's hard to tell, especially when you consider the distance between the Aluttions and the President. 

On a tangent, I always thought your site was satire, Mara, didn't realise it had serious stuff on it. I think I'll sign up to the emails.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 6, 2015)

Havok Journal is for serious news.  Hit the Woodline is the satire one.

When it comes to timing, they regularly host major shows of military power when our leaders are in their country, it seems to follow this pattern with their naval mission off the coast of Alaska to time with the President's visit.


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## CQB (May 16, 2016)

The Pentagon's 2016 China Military Report: What You Need to Know

This report does have a valid point, the Chinese white hull navy is as asymmetric as anything a ME/African enemy can do.


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## Frank S. (May 16, 2016)

Quiang Shu and the angry inch?


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## Gunz (May 16, 2016)

The people are the sea in which the guerrilla fighter swims, to paraphrase Mao...the Maritime Militia is like the seaborne version of the concept,  at least in terms of masking the combatants to appear innocuous.


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## CQB (May 17, 2016)

Strategically they're interesting and are going to be difficult to get on with.


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## Frank S. (May 17, 2016)

I think it would have to be on their terms, mostly, at first. Until a kind of new language is formed.


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## Gunz (May 17, 2016)

Silicon Valley-trained Chinese cyber-pirates pulled off the Los Alamos theft in 04. And what's the definition of a Chinese diplomat: Intelligence Agent. What is their ultimate goal? I believe it is to displace the US and its allies and the Russians and to become the undisputed most powerful nation, militarily and economically, on the planet.


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## Devildoc (May 17, 2016)

There have been more than a few articles lately (last 6 months) predicting the demise of their economy, with all of the predictable downstream results (inability to invest in the military infrastructure, especially their expansion into the SCS, etc.).  With the way they are spending money like drunken sailors (and I have been one so I would know...), the $$ is going to run out sooner or later, and there would be the typical contraction of military spending and deployments.  We'll see.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> There have been more than a few articles lately (last 6 months) predicting the demise of their economy, with all of the predictable downstream results (inability to invest in the military infrastructure, especially their expansion into the SCS, etc.).  With the way they are spending money like drunken sailors (and I have been one so I would know...), the $$ is going to run out sooner or later, and there would be the typical contraction of military spending and deployments.  We'll see.



Unrestricted Warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China has been manipulating their currency while purchasing monolithic amounts of gold. Several oil rich countries have wanted to shift to a gold backed currency, to later find themselves on the receiving end of an American involved liberation/revolution. Iraq, Libya, Syria to name a few. China has also mentioned a desire to transition to a gold backed currency ad the international reserve. 

I'm not going to dive into the tin hatter stuff that's all over the interwebs, but there is plenty to read about, from false markets, to petro  dollar, to the just so happens resource rich countries we have had the longest wars known to our history.

That all said, I expect the US economy to collapse completely, followed by the USD being abandoned as the international reserve currency, followed by China releasing a gold back currency to take place as the reserve currency. The US will go through about the same as the USSR did in the early 90's, reemerging 5-10 years later as still a global power, but significantly diminished in global influence.

Or

We are going to have World War Three and do like the Romans did, and use our significant military capabilities, along with our allies, to beat down whoever attempts to jack with the fiat currency system we have. This would look something like North and South Korea go at it as proxi of China and the US, Japan and China bang it out, with our support for Japan, India and China also start banging it out. Russia and the NATO countries bang it out in Europe, obviously with US involvements. We beat down China, fuck Russia up, start a new international trade and commerce arrangement with a new currency that favor's the US and Europe and carry on for another 70 years. 

But than again, I may just be crazy...


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## Devildoc (May 17, 2016)

God knows, I am so far removed from my pre-current career job that I cannot read the tea leaves or cast chicken bones to figure China out, so all my info comes from articles I read on Real Clear Politics (excellent site).  I read this:

China Will Probably Implode

But these are good as well:

The South China Sea Long Game | RealClearDefense

America Has No Military Strategy for China | RealClearDefense

Analysis: China's Military Presence in the South China Sea | RealClearDefense


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

I don't see China imploding unless they lose the manufacturing monopoly. Hints my comments about India. This is also why I believe China wants to assert controls over south China sea and why I believe China would use North Korea in proxy against South Korea. Currently Vietnam and the Philippines don't have the military capabilities to rebuff China. I think Japan will be there (if they are not already) soon.

China's big problem is resources and more specifically energy. So the leverage point would be controlling China's ability to import oil, but China has been working on that over the last decade. But that all ties into the petro dollar, OPEC and more specifically south America and Africa.

China is not acting like a nation on the verge of imploding, they're acting like a nation strategically setting themselves up to assert controls to insure their economic growth and viability across the globe.

This is all speculation and theory on my part, I read a lot on the goings on with China and the Asian-Pacific region. But its all open source and everything is manipulated on all sides, so it wouldn't surprise me that I am dead wrong.

What I do know is China will not engage us militarily directly. They don't have the capabilities on the sea or the air. This is why they are building those islands and why they are more likely to engage in small conflicts with Vietnam, the Philippines, and Japan. China knows we absolutely will come to the defense of S/Korea so again, that would be proxy, Japan, we would probably sell the weapons, but not engage directly with China.

$.02


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## Gunz (May 17, 2016)

China can also disrupt the US from Central and S. America where it's been active for many years, and I believe giving clandestine support to the triads which are heavily involved in human/drug trafficking through Mexico. Look, anything to fuck with America, it's all cumulative. And their cyberwar abilities are as good as it gets. I don't know if we'll ever get in a shooting war with China but I do believe they could--if not aggressively checked on all fronts, and if met with weakness and appeasement on the part of our leaders--reduce the United States to a second or even third-rate power. And that may indeed be their objective.


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## Frank S. (May 17, 2016)

They're coming up on a severe demographic problem as well, in the coming few years: men outnumbering women by 30 million, according to some estimates. And as has been seen throughout history, Blue Balls is a deadly disease with potential for cross-border mayhem.
With a ho-hum porn industry hampered by the Japanese, the US military remains our only hope.
*
The following is solely intended for representative purposes and does not in any way endorse nor propose fudge-packery in hole or part.*


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## Etype (May 17, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> ... to become the undisputed most powerful nation, militarily and economically, on the planet.


Admirable goals, I wish the quoted text described the US.

The bozos in Washington don't realize that you have a lot more money to give to lazy people when you turn a bigger profit.


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## Gunz (May 18, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> They're coming up on a severe demographic problem as well, in the coming few years: men outnumbering women by 30 million, according to some estimates. And as has been seen throughout history, Blue Balls is a deadly disease with potential for cross-border mayhem.
> With a ho-hum porn industry hampered by the Japanese, the US military remains our only hope.
> *
> The following is solely intended for representative purposes and does not in any way endorse nor propose fudge-packery in hole or part.*





They were a few genes short of angry _homosexual_ rats, which, of course, would have been a more effective weapon.


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## CQB (May 18, 2016)

Not really speculation, @Diamondback, I think you're pretty close IM humble O. No-one really knows if it will be a peaceful rise or not, but to answer the energy question, about 80% of their oil goes through the Malacca Straight, if I can figure that out I'm pretty sure wiser heads have too. To look at the answer to that question is pretty interesting.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 18, 2016)

It was my understanding that the Russia-China Oil & Gas deal maybe the game changer for China. I also have read over the past several years that China has increasingly worked deals with south American countries, and than there is the whole Nicaraguan-Chinese canal project. 

It's going to be an interesting next 3-5 years either way.


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## CQB (May 18, 2016)

You may be right regarding the oil & gas. The Nico thing hasn't really turned a sod, I think it's just 'money in the bank for a rainy day,' as they play a long game of commercial diplomacy & a 2nd Panama is ideal. It's the exercise of commercial diplomacy relying on 'positive-sum' economic incentives rather than 'zero-sum' military buildups that works for them really well, Piraeus port in Greece is a good example & their Darwin port acquisition is as well.

ETA: the arms embargo with Vietnam has been lifted. More a regional balancing act than anything too concrete in terms of equipment, with predictable gnashing of teeth from the Chinese. Japan is the next port of call for Obama.

Obama lifts US embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam - BBC News


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## CQB (Jul 13, 2016)

Well, the verdict of the International Court of Arbitration has been handed down and it's really no surprise. China is acting like some demented child who has dropped their lollies, whilst The PI behaves in a sober fashion, as has our government here. Trade apparently will not be affected...sooo it looks like jaw jaw is going to settle this, but it may take some time.


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## Marauder06 (Aug 31, 2016)

*A friend of mine who recently graduated from Princeton a few years back and has been living in Shanghai wrote an interesting piece on China's involvement (or lack thereof) in the war on terrorism:

China Will Eventually Enter The War On Terror. Don’t Expect It To Be On Our Side.*


> *
> Many Western analysts believe that for a country of its size, China really ought to do more to stabilize the world. Given what we know about the Chinese government and Xi’s modus operandus, and given the pressure China will be under from its nationalist netizens should a more successful attack against Chinese interests occur, we should be careful what we wish for. China stepping up will not mean closer partnership with the United States.*


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## CQB (Aug 31, 2016)

Its an interesting theory, but the co-operation between the US and China could be a way forward with China and the US, which are currently at odds, shall we say. The common enemy is radical Islam in both nations and remember: my enemy's enemy is my friend. China has more of a problem as they have a restive region in Xinjiang, which is internal and a larger problem than the US has internally.
The US pitch to Asia was misconstrued by China as containment, which it was not and this may be a good way of moving forward together. The article says the policy is not in alignment, but it's not that critical, our policy on certain things matters may not align with the US but it's a minor difference. I do certainly agree that China should do more to stabilize the world, instead of doing what they currently do.


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## Gunz (Aug 31, 2016)

CQB said:


> Its an interesting theory, but the co-operation between the US and China could be a way forward with China and the US, which are currently at odds, shall we say. The common enemy is radical Islam in both nations and remember: my enemy's enemy is my friend. China has more of a problem as they have a restive region in Xinjiang, which is internal and a larger problem than the US has internally.
> *The US pitch to Asia was misconstrued by China as containment*, which it was not and this may be a good way of moving forward together. The article says the policy is not in alignment, but it's not that critical, our policy on certain things matters may not align with the US but it's a minor difference. I do certainly agree that China should do more to stabilize the world, instead of doing what they currently do.




The Asia Pivot alarmed the Chinese...and as many times as the US reassures the PRC that these moves are _not _containment, nevertheless, obvious moves have taken place both strategically and diplomatically that have spurred China to take counter-containment efforts, most of them military in nature. And I have no doubt that any diplomatic move we make to reestablish alliances in SE Asia and elsewhere in the Pacific Rim are also being countered by PRC diplomats and intelligence agents. This in my view ratchets up the danger of incidents in the region. That doesn't mean I disagree with your post...I just think the containment/counter-containment issue is a bigger hurdle on any road to cooperation.


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## R.Caerbannog (Sep 1, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> China can also disrupt the US from Central and S. America where it's been active for many years, and I believe giving clandestine support to the triads which are heavily involved in human/drug trafficking through Mexico. Look, anything to fuck with America, it's all cumulative. And their cyberwar abilities are as good as it gets. I don't know if we'll ever get in a shooting war with China but I do believe they could--if not aggressively checked on all fronts, and if met with weakness and appeasement on the part of our leaders--reduce the United States to a second or even third-rate power. And that may indeed be their objective.


I know this is an old post, but I have a family member that works in construction who sometimes shares rumors/tidbits that he picks up from conversations. Last year there were rumors about some cartel having Chinese personnel that acted as armorers for that group. The gist of the rumor was the way cartel members used to test fire their AK's (or Horn of Goat).

Initially the standard practice for cartel personnel was to pull the trigger and fire a shot; in order to test trigger function. To me this would indicate that the group was mainly exposed to semi-auto imports. After that group got the Chinese armorers, cartel personnel were supposedly discouraged from testing the trigger as, "they would empty the magazine". I always figured that this change in behavior, marked some sort of new evolution in technology available to them. Maybe a new chain of supply coming from a state sponsored source.

To be blunt, I am curious to see where the weapons and munitions originated from. Most of the raw chemicals that are used to manufacture meth are coming in from China. If they can get tons of drug making material into Mexico, why not people and equipment? Setting small brush-fires in our backyard does ties up resources that could be going elsewhere, which works out for the Chinese.


CQB said:


> Its an interesting theory, but the co-operation between the US and China could be a way forward with China and the US, which are currently at odds, shall we say. The common enemy is radical Islam in both nations and remember: my enemy's enemy is my friend. China has more of a problem as they have a restive region in Xinjiang, which is internal and a larger problem than the US has internally.
> The US pitch to Asia was misconstrued by China as containment, which it was not and this may be a good way of moving forward together. The article says the policy is not in alignment, but it's not that critical, our policy on certain things matters may not align with the US but it's a minor difference. I do certainly agree that China should do more to stabilize the world, instead of doing what they currently do.


I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if the Chinese aren't fanning the flames or outright providing direct aid to radical Islam. In the long run, I think that they ultimately benefit from letting radical Islam run amok. Heck, it givens them an excuse to crack down on internal dissidence and expand their global footprint; all in the name of "the greater good".  Their weapons and tech have spread all through the SE Asia and Africa. They're mining for minerals all over conflict zones, still providing support for the DPRK, and goodness knows what else. Whatever their long term goals are, they scare the crap out of me.

If I am out of my lane, I'll be quiet.


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## Gunz (Sep 1, 2016)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I know this is an old post, but I have a family member that works in construction who sometimes shares rumors/tidbits that he picks up from conversations. Last year there were rumors about some cartel having Chinese personnel that acted as armorers for that group. The gist of the rumor was the way cartel members used to test fire their AK's (or Horn of Goat).
> 
> Initially the standard practice for cartel personnel was to pull the trigger and fire a shot; in order to test trigger function. To me this would indicate that the group was mainly exposed to semi-auto imports. After that group got the Chinese armorers, cartel personnel were supposedly discouraged from testing the trigger as, "they would empty the magazine". I always figured that this change in behavior, marked some sort of new evolution in technology available to them. Maybe a new chain of supply coming from a state sponsored source.
> 
> ...




You're not out of your lane anymore than the rest of us on this subject.

There is probably truth to the rumors of Chinese involvement with the cartels, but "personnel" may be too official a word. I think it more likely that the Triads are the Chinese in question  since they've been active in human/gun/drug trafficking in Central America. But there's also a gray area between the activities of the various Chinese elements working in CA. You have the "official" PRC political representatives, the Chinese businessmen, the intelligence agents, the Triads and some are probably _all_ of the above. Chinese business interests _are _Chinese government interests or they wouldn't exist. One such is Hutchison-Whampoa which operates container terminals in Panama (and in some of the busiest ports in the world) and handles a significant percentage of the world's container traffic. And supposedly Hutchison profits help fund the Peoples Liberation Army.

Colon and Panama City are major money-laundering hubs and most of the Chinese activity, legal or illegal, in CA/SA seems to emanate from there. Don't forget also that the North Koreans are also wheeling and dealing in our hemisphere. And all these players--the cartels, the Maras, the narco-terrorists, the leftist guerrilla movements, the crooked regional politicians, police and military, the Chinese, the N. Koreans, the Russian mob--it's a goulash of intrigue for sure.


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## CQB (Sep 5, 2016)

I'd say there's a difference between CCP and the Triads: CCP is not in the business of law breaking, more in strategic influence. Triads are more interested in making a dollar. As for fanning the flames of radical Islam, as discussed, they have their own internal problem with it. The one thing the CCP fears is the fracture of the state so I can't see how it would benefit from encouraging internal dissent or boosting it elsewhere. The "Stans" region is going to be a future problem, not only for China but for Russia as well.


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## CQB (Oct 20, 2016)

Duterte Harry goes to Beijing. Oh look! Bright and shiny! 

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...ican-ally-falling-chinese-camp-dutertes-pivot


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## BloodStripe (Aug 14, 2017)

China and India on brink of armed conflict over border dispute

What are the chances these two actually come to blows?


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## RackMaster (Aug 14, 2017)

Oh I think shots will be fired soon.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 14, 2017)

If they do it will be very limited. I wouldn't be able to pick a "winner" either.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 14, 2017)

For the same reason I don't see the US and China playing games, I don't see China duking it out with India.

Economics.

 With so many of the relevant nations inter-dependent upon each other for economic stability, I am much more concerned about a computer glitch starting some type of international crisis than I am human decisions.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 14, 2017)

It would be nice to see what China's capabilities actually are, being it's anyone's guess since they got their ass kicked by Vietnam in 79.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah but didn't everyone in the 60s and 70s lol. You're right though, actual operations will be interesting to watch.


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## BloodStripe (Aug 15, 2017)

Indian Troops Foil China's Incursion Bid In Ladakh: Report

Turns out the war started by soldiers throwing rocks at each other. And everyone thought WW4 would be fought by sticks and stones.


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## Gunz (Aug 16, 2017)

They have a habit of fighting over border issues. They fought in '62, '67 and '87.  

Chances are good that they'll start shooting each other...and after a few weeks or months, if history is any judge, the thing will fizzle out.


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## BloodStripe (Aug 19, 2017)

LiveLeak.com - Indian & Chinese soldiers clash

What kind of monkey grab ass is this?


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## Kraut783 (Aug 19, 2017)

dig the flying kick at 00:47


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## BloodStripe (Aug 19, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> dig the flying kick at 00:47



Yea, that dude came out of nowhere.


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## RackMaster (Aug 19, 2017)

That's how we solve the Korean conflict.  No weapons, both sides with the same number of troops, meet in no man's land and winner takes all.


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## AWP (Aug 20, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> dig the flying kick at 00:47





NavyBuyer said:


> Yea, that dude came out of nowhere.



"Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we..."


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## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2018)

Referencing the thread in the military subforum about battleships, China, and the South China Sea, this is a good article about China's overall intentions and need to control sea lanes.  The article references Alfred Thayer Mahan who, amongst sailors, was foundational in establishing Naval doctrine.

Mackinder and Mahan: The Chinese Geopolitics in South Asia | RealClearDefense


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## CQB (Mar 15, 2018)

The article doesn’t mention the First & Second Island Chains, which are projections into the Pacific. Also the map shows proposed corridors down the Malayan Peninsula & from Yunnan Province in Southern China through Myanmar to the ocean. This is to bypass the choke point of the Malacca Straight, through which a great amount of Chinese trade passes through. At one stage there was a plan for a Chinese funded canal through the Thai isthmus for the same reason, though this didn’t eventuate.


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## Gunz (Mar 16, 2018)

The Chinese have bags of money to throw around.


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## CQB (Mar 16, 2018)

...courtesy of Wal-Mart.


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## Gunz (Mar 17, 2018)

CQB said:


> ...courtesy of Wal-Mart.



Exactly.

Hey, China, you're welcome. Glad we bought all this cheap crap to help you wankers take over the world.


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## Teufel (Mar 17, 2018)

CQB said:


> The article doesn’t mention the First & Second Island Chains, which are projections into the Pacific. Also the map shows proposed corridors down the Malayan Peninsula & from Yunnan Province in Southern China through Myanmar to the ocean. This is to bypass the choke point of the Malacca Straight, through which a great amount of Chinese trade passes through. At one stage there was a plan for a Chinese funded canal through the Thai isthmus for the same reason, though this didn’t eventuate.



I think this article didn’t reference the South China Sea because it was mostly focused on their regional competition with India. The PRC is strengthening economic ties with India’s neighbors Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and the Maldives to significantly increase Chinese strategic influence in the area.


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## Gunz (Apr 1, 2018)

I'm becoming more convinced the US and its allies will not be able to contain or effectively counter the PRCs economic expansion. By making attractive offers to client countries to build or supply what they want and need and share the profits, it also makes them dependent.

The (Many) Roles of Greenland in China’s Developing Arctic Policy


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 2, 2018)

That is disconcerting as all get. We need to figure out a way to keep the Chinese contained and their firms away from North America. The fact that we do business with a bunch of mass murdering communist felchers, who've repeatedly stabbed us in the back economically and supplied our enemies, is insane.

Letting the PRC anywhere near Greenland is going to be an absolute economic and environmental disaster.

edit/add on: Coming soon to a Greenland near you! Woohoo!


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## SpitfireV (Apr 2, 2018)

What's that picture meant to be of?


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## ShadowSpear (Apr 2, 2018)

Probably blood from a whale or a shark that the Chinese definned.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 2, 2018)

Chinese don't do whales, that's the Japanese. The finning is still a major issue but is done at sea. That's why I'm not sure what the photo is of.


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 2, 2018)

@SpitfireV Yangtze river running red from pollution. Though @ShadowSpear is right about the havoc that the Chinese would wreck on marine and coastal resources due to their sheer recklessness. 

At the end of the day, PRC state sponsored companies charged with development or resource exploitation don't give a fuck about people or the environment. Not an environmentalist or conservationalist by any means, but Chinese backed companies tend to leave barren wastelands where rich ecological areas stood. If the PRC furrows its way in, we may as well kiss the Greenland ecology and any semblance of healthy/sustainable fish stocks in the North goodbye.


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## RackMaster (Apr 2, 2018)

Canada and the US should have been playing better neighbours to Greenland.  But then again, we treat our own Arctic communities like shit, so why would they trust us.


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## Gunz (Apr 2, 2018)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ...We need to figure out a way to keep the Chinese contained and their firms away from North America... The fact that we do business with a bunch of mass murdering communist felchers, who've repeatedly stabbed us in the back economically and supplied our enemies, is insane.
> 
> Letting the PRC anywhere near Greenland is going to be an absolute economic and environmental disaster...



There's a saying that you can't put an American fighter aircraft in the air without Chinese chips...and there's some truth in that. Last time I checked the PRC was the largest producer of microchips in the world.


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## AWP (Apr 2, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> There's a saying that you can't put an American fighter aircraft in the air without Chinese chips...and there's some truth in that. Last time I checked the PRC was the largest producer of microchips in the world.



Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:

Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
Me: So?
PT: Do you have any network cards we can have?
Me: Nope.
PT: Okay, we'll find them locally.
Me: That are approved by the NSA?
PT: We have a deadline, man.

The Chinese or (insert nation here) won't beat us, we'll open the door and give them the keys. They need to show up to the party we're throwing. That's all.


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## Gunz (Apr 2, 2018)

AWP said:


> Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:
> 
> Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
> Me: So?
> ...




Insane. 

Russia is already dependent upon China...Turkey took the PRC Kool-Aid...then you have the rest of the developing world. They're being offered broadband, e-commerce, high-speed trains, all kinds of cool shit if they let the PRC come in and take over the local economy.

We don't have to go to war with China to lose.


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## CQB (Apr 4, 2018)

Referring to the article, it’s not so much the mining that raises an eyebrow but the improvements to the airports which is standard PRC behaviour: critical infrastructure. It’s reassuring to see the Danish government putting the brakes on over issues too.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 4, 2018)

AWP said:


> Some months ago I was involved in a project, a very sanitized version of a related conversation follows:
> 
> Project Tech: Uh, we didn't spec this server...we didn't know the requirements.
> Me: So?
> ...



The stories I could tell...


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## Gunz (Apr 6, 2018)

The Danes can resist. Other countries welcome the Chinese because they bring useful stuff. What are we offering? Democracy? Our Navy that steams around crashing into itself? 

I have a friend who was a consultant to the NSC/DoD among other things. He says the only way to compete with the PRC is through technological innovation...for example: The Chinese are spending billions to build chip fabrication plants. We find a way of doing it better and they've got billions worth of worthless chip manufacturing plants. Make competition with the PRC a national security requirement, let DARPA, NASA and the big defense contractors innovate better tech than the PRC has. 

On the surface it sounds okay but it would probably piss off the private sector because China makes all their software etc.


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## Devildoc (Apr 10, 2018)

Does not sound like a man who wants a tariff war and full military control of the SCS....

Xi Vows Greater Access to China, Warns Against ‘Cold War Mentality’

Xi vows ‘open door’ policy amid foreign demands for market access

Facing trade war with U.S., China’s Xi renews vow to open markets, import more


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## Chopstick (Apr 10, 2018)

I cant read the article without a subscription.


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## Devildoc (Apr 10, 2018)

Chopstick said:


> I cant read the article without a subscription.



Try these:

Xi vows ‘open door’ policy amid foreign demands for market access


Facing trade war with U.S., China’s Xi renews vow to open markets, import more


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## CQB (Apr 10, 2018)

Interesting, even though the first article is from last year. China is kicking the tyres in the western Pacific. 
Chinese military base in Pacific would be of 'great concern', Turnbull tells Vanuatu
What’s really needed is an ole fashioned monkey stomp. 
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Riots highlight Chinese tensions


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## Devildoc (Apr 10, 2018)

@CQB , you always have a unique perspective.  There's like a billion miles of ocean between the US and China so a lot of the perspective of the threat is academic.  We are pretty insulated; joking aside it's not like we are at risk of war with Canada or Mexico.


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## Poccington (Apr 10, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> @CQB , you always have a unique perspective.  There's like a billion miles of ocean between the US and China so a lot of the perspective of the threat is academic.  We are pretty insulated; joking aside it's not like we are at risk of war with Canada or Mexico.



I dunno man, @RackMaster seems pretty pissed these days...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 10, 2018)

Poccington said:


> I dunno man, @RackMaster seems pretty pissed these days...



Only at his own government, lol.

What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling.  Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?


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## Devildoc (Apr 10, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling.  Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?



I have, and I can't figure out why.  They are probably responding favorably because _they_ can't figure out why.  Like him or lump him, Trump is unlike any other president; that is, he's unpredictable, and unable to be reigned in by his party.  I wonder if these countries are saying, "screw it, the man is nuts, let's see what happens...."


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## Marauder06 (Apr 10, 2018)

The major school of thought in International Relations that covers the way the President governs is called Realism.  President Trump appears to be a hard core Realist.  I'm more of a constructivist myself but it's hard to argue with what seem to be the accomplishments in trade, economics, defense, and international relations under the current administration.

realism:  Political Realism in International Relations (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


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## Devildoc (Apr 10, 2018)

@Marauder06 , my first degree is poli sci/intl relations.  I'm so old, though, that the only school of thought back them was to smite your enemies with plagues of locusts.  In all seriousness, I fall in more with the realism perspective, but understand that the consequences for the negatives can be quite significant.


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## Gunz (Apr 10, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> Only at his own government, lol.
> 
> What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling.  Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?



Hard agree, sir.

Nobody respects weakness, especially bully regimes like NK and Syria. Putin is a macho man: he's more likely to respond favorably when he comes up against somebody who talks tough and has the power to back up the smack.


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## Gunz (Apr 10, 2018)

CQB said:


> Interesting, even though the first article is from last year. China is kicking the tyres in the western Pacific.
> Chinese military base in Pacific would be of 'great concern', Turnbull tells Vanuatu
> What’s really needed is an ole fashioned monkey stomp.
> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Riots highlight Chinese tensions



I don't know if Australia or the US can compete financially with the deals the PRC lays on the table. China's got bags of cash and attractive incentives to toss around in poor countries that are eager to sign. 

The people in the Solomons can holler all they want about low wages and unethical business practices, but their local leaders sold them out and ate the forbidden fruit...and no doubt lined their pockets in the process. Since when did the Chinese ever give a shit about ethics or working conditions.


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## Isiah6:8 (Apr 10, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> What's interesting to me is that it appears China, and the Philippines, and Syria, and North Korea, and maybe even Russia, appear to be responding favorably (in terms of our interests) to the current administrations heavy-handedness and saber rattling.  Does anyone else perceive this to be the case?



Talking only about China/Russia I would agree they are responding favorably.  I believe both Xi and Putin would like their country to be the world's leading superpower and could care little about where the other two fall as long as the fall doesn't come at a cost of their end goal (not that Trump is much different).  With the prior administration, I think they probably played the same game they are now, just differently, as Obama was a "pure" politician.  The linear path of the future from Obama was more likely an easier task to project out including who would be where in terms of the US government and their positions for the next 4 years and possibly longer.  If you know who is where, then the results of your decisions, and the projected response to your decisions have a greater probability of being planned out accurately.  Trump changed all of that.  I think that they realize that any drastic response they make, there might be a repercussion they have not planned on which could materially impact them.  Until they and their staffs get the hang of this President, favorable response keeps things copacetic.  I would think that based on their actions they are more likely to think he will be in power for another 4 after this term.  

When I was in China the other year there were two distinct story lines I heard:  Everything is great in China and it is the greatest place in the world to be, and everything is great in China but there is material concern about the future of China due to the fact the economics of the state aren't fully known.  Travelling around from Beijing to HK that story didn't really change, but what become very pronounced when I got to HK was talking with folks about how much the money laundering areas in HK were hurting due to tighter restrictions on the very wealthy.  Normally, the mainland helps bolster the HK economy, but talking with directors of certain businesses they were noticing that restrictions on capital leaving the mainland was significantly hurting business in HK and Macau. 

My .02 for what little it is worth.


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## CQB (Apr 10, 2018)

The riots I mentioned above were in 06 but if a bunch of islanders can convey a blunt message, it looks like it can be done. The riot destroyed 90% of Chinese property & businesses. 
The next western Pacific spot to watch is Bougainville, which has a significant election next year.


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## AWP (Apr 10, 2018)

China doesn't want a Cold War mentality? 
The islands its built in the Pacific, buzzing our aircraft, the on again/ off again support for NK...but it doesn't want tensions to escalate?

Please....


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## Isiah6:8 (Apr 11, 2018)

AWP said:


> China doesn't want a Cold War mentality?
> The islands its built in the Pacific, buzzing our aircraft, the on again/ off again support for NK...but it doesn't want tensions to escalate?
> 
> Please....



China loves it.  Xi has a history (as does China), of saying one big thing publicly while manipulating big things behind the scenes for China.  

I think Xi's response the other night was a bunch of hogwash but right now they can't afford to get materially impacted economically so they say some nice things on TV and go back to doing what they do.


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## Grunt (Apr 11, 2018)

China will always be China just like Russia will always be Russia!

They say one thing in public and do another in private.

Those are principles that will never change unless they have a *complete* transfusion of the old way of thinking....


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## Gunz (Apr 11, 2018)

I think the Trump administrations hardline approach prompted Xi to say what he did. Yes, China is doing many provocative things, but there may be growing uncertainty in Beijing (and Pyongyang) that they're going to push things too far.

The South China Sea, the Sea of Japan, the Indo-Pacific are brimming with warships. US Carrier Strike Group 5, Australian Navy, S. Korean Navy, Japanese Navy, French Navy, Indian Navy, everybody engaged in freedom of passage operations in China's backyard swimming pool, not to mention US & PRC submarines playing underwater hide n seek.

It's only a matter of time before things get ugly. The PRC is risking war. And war is bad for the kind of business the PRC has been conducting.

US carrier sails in disputed sea as China shows own force

The Chinese have got one operational aircraft carrier. We have twelve. We're not playing dead in the SCS. We're ready to go. All it's gonna take is an incident.


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## DC (Apr 11, 2018)

China snow job just like the tariffs they have put on our goods for decades. They want full world domination period. Russia will tag along. Cold War can get real hot.


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## CQB (Apr 11, 2018)

The five Japanese commands have just been united under one command for the first time since WW2.


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## RackMaster (Apr 11, 2018)

Poccington said:


> I dunno man, @RackMaster seems pretty pissed these days...



@Marauder06 is right.  Canuckistan is run by a full blown Marxist puppet that admires China's basic dictatorship.  I'm sure if he could get away with it, we'd be a Chinese territory by end of the week. I was shocked when he took such a hard line against Russia.


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## DC (Apr 11, 2018)

RackMaster said:


> @Marauder06 is right.  Canuckistan is run by a full blown Marxist puppet that admires China's basic dictatorship.  I'm sure if he could get away with it, we'd be a Chinese territory by end of the week. I was shocked when he took such a hard line against Russia.


If you have Walmart, Costco or those in different wrap the Chinese are already there. Fear the red.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2018)

Xi has a lot to lose. Like his navy. This is why I say there is risk for the PRC by igniting tensions at sea.

Nobody wants to fight China on Chinese soil. But the provocations are mainly maritime in nature and the PLAN is not that intimidating. They've got no cruisers, lots of corvettes and frigates and destroyers and assorted smaller craft, some LSDs, minesweepers, missile boats and one aircraft carrier.

The Chinese are far from invincible at sea.

As far as their fortified artificial islands... the Japanese had that strategic thinking in WW2: utilize islands as "unsinkable aircraft carriers". How'd that work out? Islands are static. They can't duck into a squall and hide. The enemy always knows their position, and knowing it, can attack at will.


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## DA SWO (Apr 12, 2018)

DC said:


> China snow job just like the tariffs they have put on our goods for decades. They want full world domination period. Russia will tag along. Cold War can get real hot.


Chine plays by their rules, and so does Russia.
We have played by Chinese and Russian rules for a long time (20 plus years).
DJT comes in and says fuck that, we are playing by my rules; Russia and China are trying to figure his rules out so they can minimize their loses.
No different than Regan's open mic moment, except Trump tweets.
Brinkmanship is a viable tactic.


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## DC (Apr 12, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Xi has a lot to lose. Like his navy. This is why I say there is risk for the PRC by igniting tensions at sea.
> 
> Nobody wants to fight China on Chinese soil. But the provocations are mainly maritime in nature and the PLAN is not that intimidating. They've got no cruisers, lots of corvettes and frigates and destroyers and assorted smaller craft, some LSDs, minesweepers, missile boats and one aircraft carrier.
> 
> ...


Don’t forget subs. Not our level but diesels are hard to detect. Who knows how many they really have.
People's Liberation Army Navy Submarine Force - Wikipedia


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## Gunz (Apr 13, 2018)

DA SWO said:


> Chine plays by their rules, and so does Russia.
> We have played by Chinese and Russian rules for a long time (20 plus years).
> DJT comes in and says fuck that, we are playing by my rules; Russia and China are trying to figure his rules out so they can minimize their loses.
> No different than Regan's open mic moment, except Trump tweets.
> Brinkmanship is a viable tactic.




Exactly. Nothing wrong with a few scary innuendos to keep them guessing. It's a taste of their own MO. And with our arsenal and our habit of going to war in far off places, those comments, tweets etc have the power and precedent to back them up.


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## DC (Apr 13, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Exactly. Nothing wrong with a few scary innuendos to keep them guessing. It's a taste of their own MO. And with our arsenal and our habit of going to war in far off places, those comments, tweets etc have the power and precedent to back them up.


Scary as it sounds but true.


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## Marauder06 (May 16, 2019)

If we get into a hard scrap with Iran, China is going to seize Taiwan. ..


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## Gordus (May 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> If we get into a hard scrap with Iran, China is going to seize Taiwan. ..



I somehow doubt China is ever going to succeed in invading Taiwan


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## Marauder06 (May 16, 2019)

Gordus said:


> I somehow doubt China is ever going to succeed in invading Taiwan



It's one of their top national priorities.   They're feeling more and more confident in their abilities in and around the South China Sea.  If they can't get Taiwan to come over through the democratic process, they will simply wait a few more years until they have near-parity with us, OR they will go sooner, if they perceive extreme weakness in the US.


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## Devildoc (May 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> It's one of their top national priorities.   They're feeling more and more confident in their abilities in and around the South China Sea.  If they can't get Taiwan to come over through the democratic process, they will simply wait a few more years until they have near-parity with us, OR they will go sooner, if they perceive extreme weakness in the US.



How do you see that going?  Seriously curious.  How would Taiwan react?  What would we do?


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## Gordus (May 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> It's one of their top national priorities.   They're feeling more and more confident in their abilities in and around the South China Sea.  If they can't get Taiwan to come over through the democratic process, they will simply wait a few more years until they have near-parity with us, OR they will go sooner, if they perceive extreme weakness in the US.



I know. I just highly doub the feasibilty of such an operation.


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## Marauder06 (May 16, 2019)

Gordus said:


> I know. I just highly doub the feasibilty of such an operation.



We should start a thread to discuss it, I'm very interested to hear your opinion.


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## Gordus (May 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> We should start a thread to discuss it, I'm very interested to hear your opinion.



Same here. Any input is good & appreciated.


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## Kheenbish (May 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> It's one of their top national priorities.   They're feeling more and more confident in their abilities in and around the South China Sea.  If they can't get Taiwan to come over through the democratic process, they will simply wait a few more years until they have near-parity with us, OR they will go sooner, if they perceive extreme weakness in the US.



Agree with Gordus. Though this is a likely scenario with all the recent "flights" done by China in the AOR, I don't believe China is ready to make the move for some time. They'd have to fully take control of Hong Kong, then muster up the strength to actually take Taiwan considering we have been bolstering up their defenses lately. Additionally, talking to many Chinese individuals they consider Taiwan to still be part of China and I don't think would agree to a full scale invasion. China plans 100 years out, I don't think reaction attacks without a concrete plan on this scale would be executed.


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## AWP (May 16, 2019)

Moving some posts from the Iran thread to here for discussion's sake.


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## Marauder06 (May 17, 2019)

thanks brother


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## chickenrappa (May 17, 2019)

It's funny that this came up because I read an article about this a while back, and heard a theory. The theory was that if China was to invade Taiwan, they'd have a hellish time of pulling it off, between coalition assistance from the US and Japan that can show up within 24 hours, then they'd basically be boned, but the plan was broken down like this, it basically talked about how Taiwan has 13 beaches, all of which are in good enough condition to be targets of an amphibious landing, given that the Chinese Missile Strike the shit out of most of the Taiwanese defenses. But that's already apparently being remedied by the Taiwanese who are laying "razor wire nets, hook boards, skin-peeling planks, barbed wire fences, wire obstacles, spike strips, landmines, anti-tank barrier walls, anti-tank obstacles … bamboo spikes, felled trees, truck shipping containers, and junkyard cars." which could cause issues for anyone looking to look at an amphibious landing. They then broke down how the Taiwan Strait itself is very treacherous and plagued by Typhoons, high winds and fog. The only real gap in this is two four week windows in April or October where the weather would be good enough for a full scale "D-Day" style landing. I thought the theory was interesting enough to mention here, and I will include the article as well here: How Taiwan can defeat China in a war | Taiwan News But my 2 cents is basically, it probably will happen at one point, because China has been threatening for years, it's just a matter of when they'll decide to try it.


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## chickenrappa (May 17, 2019)

chickenrappa said:


> It's funny that this came up because I read an article about this a while back, and heard a theory. The theory was that if China was to invade Taiwan, they'd have a hellish time of pulling it off, between coalition assistance from the US and Japan that can show up within 24 hours, then they'd basically be boned, but the plan was broken down like this, it basically talked about how Taiwan has 13 beaches, all of which are in good enough condition to be targets of an amphibious landing, given that the Chinese Missile Strike the shit out of most of the Taiwanese defenses. But that's already apparently being remedied by the Taiwanese who are laying "razor wire nets, hook boards, skin-peeling planks, barbed wire fences, wire obstacles, spike strips, landmines, anti-tank barrier walls, anti-tank obstacles … bamboo spikes, felled trees, truck shipping containers, and junkyard cars." which could cause issues for anyone looking to look at an amphibious landing. They then broke down how the Taiwan Strait itself is very treacherous and plagued by Typhoons, high winds and fog. The only real gap in this is two four week windows in April or October where the weather would be good enough for a full scale "D-Day" style landing. I thought the theory was interesting enough to mention here, and I will include the article as well here: How Taiwan can defeat China in a war | Taiwan News But my 2 cents is basically, it probably will happen at one point, because China has been threatening for years, it's just a matter of when they'll decide to try it.


Since I am super dumb, and didn't even answer the question, I would say that us sending a large force to Iran and becoming involved in a full-scale war would probably be a motivator for China to look at seizing Taiwan if they think they can pull it off. But I also believe they'd look at chipping away at the paint until one of those bad weather free zones during the year, if we're still tied up, and then with all the paint gone, they'll take the best opportunity possible to go for Taiwan.


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## SpitfireV (May 17, 2019)

I don't think China will invade Taiwan; at least not in a military sense. They're working on strengthening the image of the PRC in ROC but that doesn't appear to be working so well at the moment. Economically trade is very one sided at it happens- if Chinese seized all the ROC businesses and rounded up the businessmen it would have a pretty strong effect on ROC. Even if the US is tied up with Iran there are still a lot of resources the US can throw at the area.

I think a blockade would be more likely at this stage than a full blown invasion. They can force a surrender that way but it's still incredibly risky. I don't know what the PRC has planned but I doubt an invasion is too high up the list.


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## Gunz (May 17, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't think China will invade Taiwan; at least not in a military sense. They're working on strengthening the image of the PRC in ROC but that doesn't appear to be working so well at the moment. Economically trade is very one sided at it happens- if Chinese seized all the ROC businesses and rounded up the businessmen it would have a pretty strong effect on ROC. Even if the US is tied up with Iran there are still a lot of resources the US can throw at the area.
> 
> I think a blockade would be more likely at this stage than a full blown invasion. They can force a surrender that way but it's still incredibly risky. I don't know what the PRC has planned but I doubt an invasion is too high up the list.




I agree. The Chinese are a patient and practical people. They are also astute gamblers.

The Taiwan Relations Act is rather ambiguous when it comes to the question of U.S. military support for the island in the event of offensive actions by the PRC. There are no guarantees we'd step in to help. But even with that ambiguity, and even in the event of our substantial involvement in a military action elsewhere, I don't think the PRC would risk it.

Like @Kheenbish mentions above, China thinks in terms of centuries, not months or years. Nothing has to happen in our lifetime as long as it happens in the lifetimes of our descendants. So, in the meantime they will plan strategically, through economics, diplomacy, intrigue, subterfuge, whatever...and when the time is right--say, when America is eventually weakened and gutted by socialism--they'll make their move.


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## Gordus (May 17, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't think China will invade Taiwan; at least not in a military sense. They're working on strengthening the image of the PRC in ROC but that doesn't appear to be working so well at the moment. Economically trade is very one sided at it happens- if Chinese seized all the ROC businesses and rounded up the businessmen it would have a pretty strong effect on ROC. Even if the US is tied up with Iran there are still a lot of resources the US can throw at the area.
> 
> I think a blockade would be more likely at this stage than a full blown invasion. They can force a surrender that way but it's still incredibly risky. I don't know what the PRC has planned but I doubt an invasion is too high up the list.



In my eyes that is the only realistic way China could possibly win. 

A blockade, starve the Taiwanese population. Force their surrender without risking so much bloodshed. However I don't think the Taiwanese would surrender in just a matter of months.

If it really came down to a full blown military operation, then let's break it down. No outside involvment. So Taiwan is on it's own.

China has a big advantive in satellites.

IIRC China has a lot of ballistic missiles including SLCM/BMs. I suspect more than Taiwan would ever be able to intercept. Major targets would be aistrips, both military and possibly also civilian, bases and ASM and AA systems.

IIRC Taiwan uses it's vast mountain ranges for some of military instalations and probably has material and aircraft safely stored inside the mountains.
However disabling the strips and bases should more than suffice to severely limit if not completly ground all Taiwanese air assets, at least in terms of planes. Helicopters would still be a threat.

Even if China established total air supremacy and eliminated much of the primary defences, I think it would come at a great cost. Losses may be catastrophic for the Chinese airforce.

The Chinese Navy would face a dramaticaly inferior Taiwanese counterpart. Taiwan's options are rather very limited there. It can try to keep it's much smaller navy safe from major engagements or have it involved right away to defend the coastline and islands to the west, and contribute to protecting air space to some degree. So mainly shore based actions. I don't see it's capital vessels survive long in open waters facing so many enemy subs alone. 

While taking out as many defences and aircraft as possible, the first obvious stage for a main land invasion should be to capture all the smaller islands and construct make shift assembly, supply bases and airstrips to use for operations from different angles. MIght be very useful for the deployment of army air assault brigades. It might also be totaly sufficient to focus only on the occupation of said islands, and then negotiate a ceasefire. Could be a much smarter move on the long run. China would establish proper bases surrounding Taiwan and prepare for following stages, in relative peace over the next months / years. That is if the Taiwanese accepted such terms. They might be pressured to do so by a blockade. However I think that unlikely.

China currently has a specialized landing force of about 12.000 Marines according to wiki. It can seemingly muster two divisions of paratroopers, however the PLAAF is supposedly only able to airlift some 11.000 men at a time. Said troops have to reach their destination first. Might come at a great cost. But let's assume the Chinese land all their assets unharmed. They would be dramaticaly outnumbered and outgunned in almost every scenario when attacking the main land, even if supported by army air assault brigades. Those forces would heavily rely on the support of Chinese navy and airfoce. Otherwise the Taiwanese will answer with greater numbers and local firepower. They will in all likelyhood have mobilized and recruited more people at that point.
Those numbers could naturaly also be complete bs so if anyone got better sources and input, please share.

I just don't think that China could simply assemble all it's vessels to carry tens of thousands of troops to Taiwan's beaches in one go and repeat. The logistics and loss of life would be insane imo.


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## Gordus (May 17, 2019)

I'd expect initial Chinese landings forces to be carried and supported by mostly light vehicles, while facing basicaly everything Taiwan can throw at them with home advantige and good quality anti-armor weapons. That small force of elite Chinese troops would likely be brutaly mauled or wholly defeated before China is able to land more substantial numbers and heavier equipment.


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## R.Caerbannog (May 17, 2019)

This is me spitballing, but we can cripple the PRC's military before they even get on their ships and planes. Create enough dissent and havoc in their part of the world and the excursionary forces the PRC built up will be turned inward. Right now, the PRC is not as unified as they make themselves out to be. There is a lot of internal dissent in China, it's also how Xi was able to gather as much power as he did.

If we really want to stop 'Mainland China's' expansion we need to stop trading with them. MC has an excess of single males, widespread food insecurity, food pollution, corruption, bankrupt pensions, unsecure energy/resource supply routes, etc. The PRC's house in in disarray, hence their police state. Cut China's revenue streams, kill/imprison/deport their spies, scientists, & exchange students, and China's house of cards will start to crumble.

You can't innovate when you're best people are dead or rotting away.


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## Devildoc (May 17, 2019)

I think if China was to surround and quarantine the island the whole world would lash out.  I don't think China would do that.  The economic sanctions alone would cripple their economy to the point that they would resemble the 1800s.  I also think at that point some non -Chinese subs in the strait would be engaging in target practice.


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## Brill (May 17, 2019)

AWP said:


> Moving some posts...



Moving the goal posts!!!


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## ThunderHorse (May 17, 2019)

I've war-gamed this one out quite a bit.  Our Navy and Air Force are not in the numbers they once were.  China has a lot expendables.  If they were to seize the Island it would likely look Kings Landing after Denaerys heard the bells.  The number of missiles targeting governmental and military facilities there are, well they're in the thousands.  The Chinese have to continued to expand their blue water and amphibious capabilities.  

If we had to commit a third of our naval capacity and a significant portion of our Air Force to fuck with Iran over whatever they've got a helluva time to re-deploy to the South China Sea.  China doesn't have a lot of friends in the region, but the naval capabilities of Vietnam and the Philippines are nominal at best.  You'd need Japan and Korea fully deployed to counter and push them back.  Now, Japan has been building out their Naval Capacity for years.  But would Japan and Korea see this as their fight?  Would Australia who has a small but very competent Navy deploy?  Would India take up this fight?

This would not be like fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq the same time.


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## DA SWO (May 17, 2019)

Would the Taiwanese sit by and get conquered, or would the People's Army get to experience "asymmetrical warfare"?


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## Marauder06 (May 17, 2019)

China is getting more and more assertive in the region, and the only reason they haven't achieved hegemony in the Pacific is because of the US.  If we appear to waver, or to lose interest, there's nothing anyone else can do to stop China from doing anything else they want to do in that area.  And everyone knows it.  That's one of the reasons the US and Viet Nam are getting all chummy these days.  Same thing with Philippines.  It wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of other regional players, including ones we don't traditionally think of as partners, climbing on board as well.

I admire the Taiwanese but they would get crushed.  Their coastal defenses are not particularly useful against a force that can go over them by air, or through them, or simply bypass them by going upriver in hovercraft.  I believe the Taiwanese would fight, but they have no staying power.  China's also not particularly concerned with human rights, and there are literally no neighboring coutries to the island of Taiwan, so there is no ability to easily flow in troops or supplies, and no Western-style governments worried about what the troops on the ground are doing in order to secure the populace.  They would probably also throw  whole bunch of economic development and social services at the population and try to keep things as close to status quo ante as they could in order to tamp down resistance.

The population of Taiwan is approximately 23.5 million.  That's considerably smaller than both Iraq and Afghanistan.  It's also considerably closer, in terms of distance, culture, and language.  For many reasons, the issues we had with Iraq and AFG simply won't be at play with China/Taiwan.


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## Kheenbish (May 17, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I think if China was to surround and quarantine the island the whole world would lash out.  I don't think China would do that.  The economic sanctions alone would cripple their economy to the point that they would resemble the 1800s.  I also think at that point some non -Chinese subs in the strait would be engaging in target practice.



You could very much say that they already are with the occupation of the Spratly Islands and other man made islands in the nearby reefs. I still think the US is looking at these incidents or potential wars in the sense of an Army vs Army, but China is making economical moves, technological advances, and territorial gains moves by taking these islands and ultimately having the potential to control important shipping lanes in the South China Sea.

China is waging a much larger and more impactful type of war. Control the world in an economic sense with the shipping lanes, then with the new Belt and Road initiative they've potentially developed a system that circumvents the old tradition of controlling the sea. In addition to this, China has put a huge focus on the technical and scientific plane of warfare. This plane has yet to be fully understood or have actual ROE's developed and we have constantly seen China take advantage of this.

I do believe getting Taiwan under Chinese control is an end-game goal of China, but many other initiatives will come first. We also have to worry about the possible takeover of the Senkaku Islands.


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## Kheenbish (May 17, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> China is getting more and more assertive in the region, and the only reason they haven't achieved hegemony in the Pacific is because of the US.  If we appear to waver, or to lose interest, there's nothing anyone else can do to stop China from doing anything else they want to do in that area.  And everyone knows it.  That's one of the reasons the US and Viet Nam are getting all chummy these days.  Same thing with Philippines.  It wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of other regional players, including ones we don't traditionally think of as partners, climbing on board as well.
> 
> I admire the Taiwanese but they would get crushed.  Their coastal defenses are not particularly useful against a force that can go over them by air, or through them, or simply bypass them by going upriver in hovercraft.  I believe the Taiwanese would fight, but they have no staying power.  China's also not particularly concerned with human rights, and there are literally no neighboring coutries to the island of Taiwan, so there is no ability to easily flow in troops or supplies, and no Western-style governments worried about what the troops on the ground are doing in order to secure the populace.  They would probably also throw  whole bunch of economic development and social services at the population and try to keep things as close to status quo ante as they could in order to tamp down resistance.
> 
> The population of Taiwan is approximately 23.5 million.  That's considerably smaller than both Iraq and Afghanistan.  It's also considerably closer, in terms of distance, culture, and language.  For many reasons, the issues we had with Iraq and AFG simply won't be at play with China/Taiwan.


 
Too add, if China were to make a large move such as retaking Taiwan I believe it would appear as though it were all legal. I mean this in the sense in the lanes in which they have generally been operating. Creating islands, taking over the Spratlys, heck even the treatment of their own people, it's all shown in a way that "Hey this is perfectly legal". I believe they would negotiate some deal, possibly flex some trade/economic power to Taiwan and ultimate force Taiwan under their rule, but with almost zero military operations. Without the US there to run interference (Such as being distracted with Iran) I see this as a possible avenue, but still find it doubtful in the near future.


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## Gordus (May 17, 2019)

I don't think Taiwan can be subjugated by just a hail of cruise and conventional ballistic missiles. I could be entirely wrong though. But, you deplete your hundreds of missiles, may or may not take out most strategic targets and all the destruction achieves was an increase of bitter resentment towards the Chinese and probably also not that much destruciton in the first place. It would be better to try winning hearts and minds over a longer period or otherwise. But via war that is only achievable after with a successful invasion, and that's where I see too many hurdles. 

China must be willing to invest enormous resources into that conflict and accept potentialy high losses. It would need to scramble most of it's naval and air assets. The preparation of such a large scale operation will probably not go unnoticed, especialy with so many Taiwanese living in China and it has to be a surprise attack on an unsuspecting Taiwan for maximum effect. At least in order to quickly seize the smaller islands without much trouble. Use many merchant / civilian vessels.

I don't think a direct invasion of the main land would be very smart. Shore defences are not the only concern even if they were quickly dealt with. The Taiwanese will fight, and China can only deploy limited manpower at a time for an invasion and localy they would be dramaticaly outgunned and quickly outnumbered in every proposed landing area, pushed back into the sea, even with air and naval support. Especialy on the mountainous eastern coastlines Those are long distances for air sorties. That's why I think it would be in their best interest to at least secure all the smaller islands first and establish a of bases around the main island from which to make further moves.


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## ThunderHorse (May 17, 2019)

The Chinese have done a significant IO on Taiwan.  There is a significant amenableness to the population it seems.  Whereas the population in HK is becoming agitated.


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## Marauder06 (May 17, 2019)

Here are some terms that will be helpful to further discussions on this topic:

first island chain:  First island chain - Wikipedia

9-dash line:  Nine-Dash Line - Wikipedia

One China principal (vs. One China Policy):  One China principle 'is non negotiable'

creeping normalcy:  Creeping normalcy : definition of Creeping normalcy and synonyms of Creeping normalcy (English)


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## Gordus (May 17, 2019)

I defo agree about the long game, that's the only reasonable and successful strategy I see. Ideally without any conflict and crisis at all.


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## Kheenbish (May 17, 2019)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Chinese have done a significant IO on Taiwan.  There is a significant amenableness to the population it seems.  Whereas the population in HK is becoming agitated.


100% agree. IO is a huge capability that is being built up by China. While attending a recent Rand Corp. open source presentation, they spoke about the PRC's interest in heavily building up their Information Operations Unit which has Cyber and EW falling under it.

Was trying to navigate their website to find the white paper, but couldn't locate it. However, found a nice breakdown of the PLA's modernization efforts.


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## Jaknight (May 17, 2019)

Question how good is China’s manufacturing capabilities? Is it better than ours?


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## Flagg (May 18, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> Question how good is China’s manufacturing capabilities? Is it better than ours?



I think it depends.....

Rapid hardware prototyping?

I doubt there is a better hardware prototyping ecosystem in the world than Shenzhen. 

The US and other western countries still possess much of the very best niche/sector manufacturing capability, but China is investing very heavily in a range of strategic manufacturing sectors with the intent to be the world’s best, or “fast follow”.

Huawei started out with some stolen Cisco tech. Now it’s massive R&D budget means it has a legit shot at winning the global 5G war. 

In the early 1980’s President Reagan expended a LOT of political capital to disrupt the TransSiberian Pipeline. Disrupting Soviet hard currency revenue(and influence) gained if NATO partners bought Soviet gas.

Fast forward 40 years and the pipeline is in place and was only stalled. And Huawei is pushing hard in UK(halfway), Germany, and Italy.


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## Kraut783 (May 18, 2019)

Luckily Huawei is promising to not use the products or company for any spying....sounds legit  

*Huawei willing to sign 'no-spy' pacts with governments: chairman*
Huawei willing to sign 'no-spy' pacts with governments: chairman


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## Brill (May 18, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> Luckily Huawei is promising to not use the products or company for any spying....sounds legit
> 
> *Huawei willing to sign 'no-spy' pacts with governments: chairman*
> Huawei willing to sign 'no-spy' pacts with governments: chairman



I think it is legit. They just offered to provide free ZTE phones to all 2020 candidates.


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## DA SWO (May 18, 2019)

Can China feed itself?


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## R.Caerbannog (May 18, 2019)

DA SWO said:


> Can China feed itself?


It can't at the moment, most of their foods and food based commodities are imported. They are sending lots of student to colleges with successful Agricultural, Horticultural, and Animal Husbandry programs. Pakistan send a fair amount of Ag based goods their way too.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 18, 2019)

China is patient, they don't have to take Taiwan by force. They would most likely go in on small scale under the guise of some sort of emergency, disrupt the Taiwanese gov and then have some kinda of sham vote/legal proceedings to bring them under China's control.

Vietnam, Japan and South Korea are the ones who are in trouble if we allow China to gain major control in the region.

Manufacturing and military dominance, China wants both in that region,  and the Chinese have not forgotten what Japan did to them in the 1930-40's. They play nice now because of our assured defense agreement with Japan, if that were to waver in any way,  China would thump the hell out of Japan.

$.02


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## RackMaster (May 18, 2019)

DA SWO said:


> Can China feed itself?



They import major amounts of grains and meat from Canada until recently. They shut down the imports as part of the fight with the US, over our detention of the Huawei CFO.


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## Totentanz (May 18, 2019)

China is patient and wants to do this as close to bloodlessly/fait accompli as possible.  They wait as long as they perceive that their relative power vs  whoever might respond (Taiwan, Taiwan backed by US, etc) is growing.  IMO, as soon as they see that curve hit an apex and start to move the other direction (strategically and permanently, not momentarily), they go for it.

The only thing stopping them today is that it's assessed to be easier tomorrow.


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## Flagg (May 18, 2019)

Kheenbish said:


> 100% agree. IO is a huge capability that is being built up by China. While attending a recent Rand Corp. open source presentation, they spoke about the PRC's interest in heavily building up their Information Operations Unit which has Cyber and EW falling under it.
> 
> Was trying to navigate their website to find the white paper, but couldn't locate it. However, found a nice breakdown of the PLA's modernization efforts.



Check out Else B Kania @ElsaKania (Twitter).

She’s written a few solid papers on PRC, specifically covering the very recently raised Strategic Support Force as well as fused military civil integration. 

I’ll be even more direct:

I don’t see China EVER wanting a kinetic fight with the US.

 It’s bad for business. The business of the PRC staying in power permanently 

I definitely see China having several Operation Urgent Fury/Grenada type options on standby to:
1)Give it’s professional military a chance to show off it’s modernisation shift 
2)Signal China’s growing dominance.
3)Provide an external focal point distraction 

I think a kinetic invasion of Taiwan would represent too much of an unknown risk for PRC leadership and would run contrary to Chinese policy of incrementalism combined with Sun Tsu: The *supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting*. 

So I think it’s reasonable to think the PLA will remain below the public detectability threshold in terms of size, speed, and scale to prevent a US response.

I’m far more worried about One Belt, One Road(20-50x Marshall Plan) being used to integrate the planet’s economy around China combines with BATH:
Baidu
Alibaba
Tencent(WeChat)
Huawei 

All of which are integrated into China/PLA diplomacy and foreign policy functioning in a combined arms unity of effort.

I believe we are far too worried about a near future kinetic fight when a much less exciting but far more insidious and largely one sided battle is being fought, 

Just my 0.02c


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## RackMaster (May 20, 2019)

How long before China retaliates? 





__ https://www.facebook.com/164305410295882/posts/4523356467724066


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## Gunz (May 22, 2019)

Not long, considering this piece from last fall:

The Chinese Motherboard Hack Is a Crisis, Even If It Didn’t Really Happen


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## Doofus (Jun 1, 2019)

The way I look at it China sees Taiwan as a territory when history says other wise. China expands infiltrates and enforce their Ideologies and laws on people when it sees fit.IMO the Iran build up is like a play action pass for the Chinese in some type of way.


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## Flagg (Jun 1, 2019)

I wrote a scenario for the US Army Mad Scientist science fiction writing competition that is an analog for China/Taiwan hard resolution.  

Published on Small Wars Journal(warning, WAY too info/jargon dense):

Distr/Action: The Application of One Platform, One Network(OP/ON) GeoDigital Strategy | Small Wars Journal


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## CQB (Jun 1, 2019)

The issue is greater than Taiwan. The PRC regards Tibet & Hong Kong, along with Taiwan as rebel provinces which have to be returned. There is also the Second Island Chain, which stops at the western tip of Irian Jaya. Drop a line directly south & where do you end up? (That's funny, last time I looked there was a Chinese lease on the port, the only major port that links the Indian/Pacific). Also, given the PRCs' propensity for debt trap diplomacy, the island nations of the entire western Pacific haven't fallen into this piece of economic entrapment, if they that haven't already.


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## Flagg (Jun 2, 2019)

CQB said:


> The issue is greater than Taiwan. The PRC regards Tibet & Hong Kong, along with Taiwan as rebel provinces which have to be returned. There is also the Second Island Chain, which stops at the western tip of Irian Jaya. Drop a line directly south & where do you end up. (That's funny, last time I looked there was a Chinese lease on the port, the only major port that links the Indian/Pacific). Also, given the PRCs' propensity for debt trap diplomacy, the island nations of the entire western Pacific have to not fall into this piece of economic entrapment, or those that haven't already.



Kenya may be about to lose some major infrastructure assets.

Cambodia has China debt issues as well. 

Southwest Pacific, like Fiji and Solomon Islands have been on the board for a while. 

Solomon Islands was one of the last vestiges of the China/Taiwan 

My guess with Taiwan is that China would strongly prefer taking Taiwan back without a single shot fired, or as few fired as possible. 

I see most of their strategy as economic/political warfare.

Civil military fusion is much, much stronger and more granular/unified with China.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jun 2, 2019)

Stumbled across this NYPost article regarding China and organ harvesting. Thought it would be fitting to place it in here. 
Chinese dissidents are being executed for their organs, former hospital worker says

Tried to find information about the article's author, but the only thing I'm not sure if its a nome de guerre or the actual academic who got kicked outta China by the PRC.
STANFORD OUSTS PH.D. CANDIDATE OVER HIS USE OF DATA ON CHINA


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## CQB (Jun 2, 2019)

Yikes!


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## Marauder06 (Jun 4, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I think if China was to surround and quarantine the island the whole world would lash out.  I don't think China would do that.  The economic sanctions alone would cripple their economy to the point that they would resemble the 1800s.  I also think at that point some non -Chinese subs in the strait would be engaging in target practice.



I don’t think “the world” would do anything without the US.  If the US doesn’t act, no one else has the capability + will to do anything other than make strongly worded statements.


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## Flagg (Jun 5, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> I don’t think “the world” would do anything without the US.  If the US doesn’t act, no one else has the capability + will to do anything other than make strongly worded statements.


0

Agreed.

But in having said that, I don’t see a realistic/likely scenario where China invades Taiwan.

Absorb over 10/20 years? Yes.

Invade over 10/20 days? No.

If I had to guess at future Chinese kinetic action it would be a 1983 Grenada-like action to display China’s return to the global stage, but with external distraction motivations more akin to the Argentine junta invading the Falklands in 1982. 

Started on a Friday after global markets close, gains consolidated, and global markets assured by Sunday evening, but continuing to be harvested for external distraction. A bit like the 2016 Turkish coup.....except 100% likelihood of success. 

I think China’s strategy towards Taiwan is not too different from it’s strategy towards the US:

Very long-term, very slow, below the threshold of public detectability to deter counter-mission...patient like an anaconda, not an obvious strike like a cobra. 

More Sun Tzu, less Clausewitz. 

Just my 0.02c


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## CQB (Jun 5, 2019)

Worth it, an in-depth & up to the minute look at China from a regional power perspective. Gets pointed at 46.35. Look for date  4/6/2019.

The Drum


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## CQB (Jun 17, 2019)

If everyone can tear themselves away from their cigars & etc., what's happening in Hong Kong is brilliant, if you'd care to notice. The Hong Kongers are  serving it up to the PRC in spades, this is even better than the Umbrella Revolution.


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## Kheenbish (Jun 17, 2019)

CQB said:


> If everyone can tear themselves away from their cigars & etc., what's happening in Hong Kong is brilliant, if you'd care to notice. The Hong Kongers are  serving it up to the PRC in spades, this is even better than the Umbrella Revolution.



It's  a brilliant example of the holes in China's economy and control. It goes to show that even though China owns this piece of land, the people don't see themselves as under the PRCs rule. This is a good example of how the takeover of Taiwan would pan out, post China's takeover of Taiwan.


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## CQB (Jun 17, 2019)

Bazinga @Kheenbisk! The PRC official announcements do not currently match their actions.


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## Gunz (Jun 17, 2019)

.


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## CQB (Jun 17, 2019)




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## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2019)

So... State Department approves $2B sale of 108, M1A2 Tanks to Taiwan

They've been trying to get Abrams tanks for a long time.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 11, 2019)

Taiwan...Not China...


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## Marauder06 (Jul 11, 2019)

108 Abrams is a lot of tanks.

Unfortunately, I'm  not sure it will make much of a difference when China decides it wants Taiwan back and is willing to fight for it.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jul 11, 2019)

Cut off their rice & soybean imports and/or start gouging the crap outta them. Treat any multinationals like traitors and freeze assets if they keep doing business with the Chicoms.

Our felcher politicians and multinationals companies have essentially sold us out in exchange for access to Chinese markets, cheap labor, and the illusion of global stability. Enemies within and enemies without.


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## Kheenbish (Aug 3, 2019)

China bans individual travel to Taiwan


Another small step toward the inevitable takeover of Taiwan by China. Start with the slow bans and economic/diplomatic sanctions. Eventually we will see more noticeable aggressive actions.


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 7, 2019)

Random thought. China has it's sights set on Taiwan, but for them to take the island a bunch of stars have to line up. Instead of just shoring up Taiwan, it might help if we start throwing resources at the dissenters in the PRC (mainly Hong Kong). If we can't destroy the PRC, via conventional means, containing them and letting a resentful population tear them apart might be a better answer.

Not sure what the topography of Hong Kong is, but I know that big chunk of wealth from the mainland has been squirreled away there. I'm also pretty sure that the kids leading the protests in HK are going to end up in Chi-Com concentration camps or mass graves. With the amount of physical and financial assets at play, in HK, I don't think the PRC can afford to raze the territory.

I know that HK is a 'domestic dispute' for the PRC, I'm just thinking that it might be beneficial for everyone if our Asian allies could lend the kids in HK a hand. The PRC has been starting fires all around the world and having us put them out, we should do the same to them.

Probably a dumb idea.


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## Jaknight (Aug 7, 2019)

Do the protests in Hong Kong really matter in the long run? Isn’t HK going back to China? won’t the PRC just do what it wants when HK returns to them?


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 7, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> Do the protests in Hong Kong really matter in the long run? Isn’t HK going back to China? won’t the PRC just do what it wants when HK returns to them?


Maybe, maybe not. I'm just saying that HK is a tinderbox, with alot of valuable resources and real estate at play. The PRC has a surplus of bare branches, better for their kindling to ignite and burn in their home instead of somewhere else.


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## Marauder06 (Aug 7, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> Do the protests in Hong Kong really matter in the long run? Isn’t HK going back to China? won’t the PRC just do what it wants when HK returns to them?



China regained sovereignty over Hong Kong something like 20 years ago, brother.  Part of the reason for the current protests is that it infringes on the city’s special status as a part of China.


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## Gunz (Aug 7, 2019)

Yep. 1997.



R.Caerbannog said:


> ...it might help if we start throwing resources at the dissenters in the PRC (mainly Hong Kong). If we can't destroy the PRC, via conventional means, containing them and letting a resentful population tear them apart might be a better answer...




Just my 2c. China's too massive in area and population, too tightly controlled by an enormous bureaucracy, military and intelligence service for any kind of effective resistance movement to take shape...and a waste of money for any foreign nation trying to nurture a fledgling Fifth Column within the PRC.


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 7, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> Yep. 1997.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dunno. I'm not sure how much in control the PRC really is, they can barely keep their food clean and buildings from crumbling into each other. The other thing I was thinking, is that IED's and EFP's are cheap and HK is full of nooks and crannies. The kids protesting are going to be dead if the PRC gets it's way, figure it might be to our benefit if we give them just enough info and ordinance to make China regret taking HK.

If we want to keep the PRC contained we need to start destabilizing/sabotaging anything and everything that creates wealth for them. It might also be cheaper if we play using their pieces instead of ours.


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## Cookie_ (Aug 7, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I dunno. I'm not sure how much in control the PRC really is, they can barely keep their food clean and buildings from crumbling into each other. The other thing I was thinking, is that IED's and EFP's are cheap and HK is full of nooks and crannies. The kids protesting are going to be dead if the PRC gets it's way, figure it might be to our benefit if we give them just enough info and ordinance to make China regret taking HK.
> 
> If we want to keep the PRC contained we need to start destabilizing/sabotaging anything and everything that creates wealth for them. It might also be cheaper if we play using their pieces instead of ours.



It's a good thing we have a strong history of supporting rebel groups that never comes back to bite us in the ass. I mean, just look at our history in South America and the Middle East. /S

Jokes aside, I think we're fast approaching (if not already there) a world in which US involvement in those types of situations are going to be impossible to keep hidden. The days of proxy wars are ending; supporting rebel groups within peer/near-peer states is going to become full on war very quickly. 
I'm not sure if that's something in our country's best interests.


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 7, 2019)

Cookie_ said:


> It's a good thing we have a strong history of supporting rebel groups that never comes back to bite us in the ass. I mean, just look at our history in South America and the Middle East. /S
> 
> Jokes aside, I think we're fast approaching (if not already there) a world in which US involvement in those types of situations are going to be impossible to keep hidden. The days of proxy wars are ending; supporting rebel groups within peer/near-peer states is going to become full on war very quickly.
> I'm not sure if that's something in our country's best interests.


Honestly, I'm thinking that anything we can do to set fire to mainland China is fair game. If we want to keep Taiwan from being steam rolled and American interests in the region safe we're gonna have to be more proactive, like the Chinese.


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## Box (Aug 8, 2019)

China?  As long as they aren't either on Twitter or on FaceBook posting about white supremacy or gun control, they could bulldoze Taiwan into the South China Sea and very few people would notice.
...unless it gave them a chance to snipe a few political jabs at the POTUS


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## SaintKP (Aug 8, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Honestly, I'm thinking that anything we can do to set fire to mainland China is fair game. If we want to keep Taiwan from being steam rolled and American interests in the region safe we're gonna have to be more proactive, like the Chinese.




Is America really in a position militarily or even socially unified enough to take on a near-peer adversary, in what would inevitably turn into a full scale conventional war? A war that by any measures would be extremely un popular with the public following right on the heels of another extremely unpopular war?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 8, 2019)

SaintKP said:


> Is America really in a position militarily or even socially unified enough to take on a near-peer adversary, in what would inevitably turn into a full scale conventional war? A war that by any measures would be extremely un popular with the public following right on the heels of another extremely unpopular war?



Nothing unifies the American people more than being attacked. China, Russia, etc. It would become hell on earth in their neck of the woods. Of course that was true pre-snowflake culture, so maybe I'm completely wrong. But you never saw a more United America (politics wise) until after 9/11 at least until we went into Iraq.


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## SaintKP (Aug 8, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Nothing unifies the American people more than being attacked. China, Russia, etc. It would become hell on earth in their neck of the woods. Of course that was true pre-snowflake culture, so maybe I'm completely wrong. But you never saw a more United America (politics wise) until after 9/11 at least until we went into Iraq.




I full heartedly agree, and even in the current political climate we're in now I still think an attack against the US would be a largely unifying factor. But I don't believe China is that bold (or stupid) to outright attack us, or a more likely scenario payout a third party to do their bidding.

They've been playing the "I'm not touching you" game for a long time now, I find it hard to believe they would just jump the shark. Unless we started as @R.Caerbannog  stated, actively pissing in their cornflakes. Even then, wouldn't it be difficult to hide that we're actively trying to provoke an attack in a world where almost all information is barely kept secret?


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## Box (Aug 8, 2019)

Observing our current government - it seems pretty unlikely that we are really postured to do anything of substance on a global scale.  The left half of our citizens are more than comfortable electing leaders that are now publicly stating that the right half of our citizens are supporters violent white supremacy.   
The right half of our citizens have very little problem painting the left half as a group of self absorbed pseudo-communists dead set on destroying the America that was created in 1776 and replacing it with a more enlightened socialist America that controls all facets of daily life.

The truth doesn't matter anymore since the only bipartisan concept at play in modern America is Whataboutism.   
It doesn't matter that my guy did it - because your guy did it too....
Hell, modern social discourse has driven me to a postion of such shamelessly partisan behavior that I can't even jack off with my "left" hand any more - and from the things I hear and read every day - I'm not the only one that has drifted down that path.

How can a nation that refuses to even agree on the most common issues of the day REALLY compete with China in a lasting meaningful way?


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 8, 2019)

SaintKP said:


> Is America really in a position militarily or even socially unified enough to take on a near-peer adversary, in what would inevitably turn into a full scale conventional war? A war that by any measures would be extremely un popular with the public following right on the heels of another extremely unpopular war?


I think you're assuming that it's beneficial for China to wage full scale war on us. At the moment, the PRC is going through it's modernization phase and the testing/integration of it's newly acquired gear and weapon platforms. There was a thread here about China breaching S. Korean airspace with Russian support, if that helps paint a picture.

The PRC still has to import most of it's food, raw materials, and energy, I don't think they can afford confront us conventionally until they get those ducks in order.


Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Nothing unifies the American people more than being attacked. China, Russia, etc. It would become hell on earth in their neck of the woods. Of course that was true pre-snowflake culture, so maybe I'm completely wrong. But you never saw a more United America (politics wise) until after 9/11 at least until we went into Iraq.


You're right. It's takes too much to unite us and we have subsets of the public that are actively aiding and abetting the spread of communism and it's ideals. Snowflakes like those Antifa clowns are, in my mind, some of the best tools the commies have to sow discord and keep the public divided.



SaintKP said:


> I full heartedly agree, and even in the current political climate we're in now I still think an attack against the US would be a largely unifying factor. But I don't believe China is that bold (or stupid) to outright attack us, or a more likely scenario payout a third party to do their bidding.
> 
> They've been playing the "I'm not touching you" game for a long time now, I find it hard to believe they would just jump the shark. Unless we started as @R.Caerbannog  stated, actively pissing in their cornflakes. Even then, wouldn't it be difficult to hide that we're actively trying to provoke an attack in a world where almost all information is barely kept secret?


For the moment I think that the PRC is going to keep playing 'shadow games' with the American public and the rest of the world. It's in the PRC's best interest to keep us on the back foot, while they grow and strengthen their global roots. Regardless of the games China is playing, I think we can do it better.

Picture the PRC as invasive bamboo. It takes a while for bamboo to grow, but when it has it's root systems in place it can be destructive, pop up most anywhere, and is extremely hard to uproot. What I'm saying is that we can bore away at their root systems or starve them of water, without the birds and bees noticing.


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## R.Caerbannog (Aug 8, 2019)

Box said:


> Observing our current government - it seems pretty unlikely that we are really postured to do anything of substance on a global scale.  The left half of our citizens are more than comfortable electing leaders that are now publicly stating that the right half of our citizens are supporters violent white supremacy.
> The right half of our citizens have very little problem painting the left half as a group of self absorbed pseudo-communists dead set on destroying the America that was created in 1776 and replacing it with a more enlightened socialist America that controls all facets of daily life.
> 
> The truth doesn't matter anymore since the only bipartisan concept at play in modern America is Whataboutism.
> ...


Honestly, I think it's only a small subset of the population that is actively spreading dissent. I'm betting the most successful of these infiltrators are being backed by our enemies or are members of the public who've been ideologically turned. It doesn't help that Marxists have infiltrated and now dominate the fields of education and mass media.


----------



## Box (Aug 9, 2019)

I dont disagree with you - its that same small subset of dissenters that obstruct everyone else from trying to "get at" the problem. 

I also think that the same subset of americans that have been ideologically turned towards this utopian fallacy of 'democratic socialism' wouldn't hesitate to treat dissenters in the USA the exact same way that China currently treat THEIR dissenters.

Dissent is only good when it is "my team" raging against the machine - all others must be punished.
Its a 'Brave New World' that we are living in


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 9, 2019)

If Taiwan and the adjacent countries are gonna want support against China, they're gonna have to step up their efforts against the PRC's massive PR machine. The way things are going, it seems like the Chinese mainland is insanely good at projecting soft force at it's enemies.


----------



## Brill (Aug 10, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Nothing unifies the American people more than being attacked.



We could have another FKIA of +3k and the opposing side (left or right) would, I believe, cheer.  Yes, I think Americans would be happy because other Americans died because they’re not viewed as countrymen but enemies. I don’t think there is any situation We could encounter that would unite Americans like We were just 8 years ago.  I cannot imagine the people of CA, OR, NY, or MD supporting all Americans regardless of ideology. Maybe it’s possible and I hope I’m wrong.



> Toward the end of 2018, Gallup updated a relatively long trend asking Americans whether they thought the upcoming year (2019) would be "a year when America will increase its power in the world, or a year when American power will decline." Americans were divided, with 49% choosing each option.



Americans Split on Outlook for U.S. Power


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 16, 2019)

*"China Is About To Monkey Stomp The S#!t Out Of Hong Kong. **Here’s Why**."*



> ...China has positioned troops nearby, they’ve infiltrated special police, they’re cracking down on social media, and they’re doing a LOT of political signaling indicating that they’ve had about enough of Hong Kong’s crap.  Moreover, the protests have gotten larger, more dynamic, and better able to deal with the local police’s crowd dispersal tactics.  And, oh yeah, the protesters shut down the airport.  Additionally, all of that US flag waving going on inside of Hong Kong has GOT to sting.You know what that means:  “Bedtime with Bonzo” is over. “Curious George Tries To Protest” is gone. It’s now time for King Kong to take over.



link


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> *"China Is About To Monkey Stomp The S#!t Out Of Hong Kong. **Here’s Why**."*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not trying to nitpick and I'm sorry if I am. Pretty sure Taiwan is it's own country, just cause the Chicoms say they ain't doesn't make it so. Chicoms are also about to try and subjugate a densely packed multi-tiered city, without local support. 

If the kids in HK can cobble together some IED's, incendiaries, and demo, those PRC transports may as well be carrying fish. Worse comes to worse, HK can bring down their city on top of the Chicoms. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling the PLA and mainland China aren't going to walk out of HK unscathed or unbroken.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 16, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Not trying to nitpick and I'm sorry if I am. Pretty sure Taiwan is it's own country, just cause the Chicoms say they ain't doesn't make it so. Chicoms are also about to try and subjugate a densely packed multi-tiered city, without local support.
> 
> If the kids in HK can cobble together some IED's, incendiaries, and demo, those PRC transports may as well be carrying fish. Worse comes to worse, HK can bring down their city on top of the Chicoms. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling the PLA and mainland China aren't going to walk out of HK unscathed or unbroken.



Relationship status: "it's complicated."
Political status of Taiwan - Wikipedia


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 16, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> Relationship status: "it's complicated."
> Political status of Taiwan - Wikipedia


Communist China still sounds like a vindictive ex who won't admit the relationship is over.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 11, 2019)

Commie Chinese being commies. Those kids in HK make better Americans than the retard commie bootlickers that infect our country.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193696326971789312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193730708444893185
Add on: The PRC moved in non-indigenous police forces to subdue the HK protesters. In other words, the forces killing and brutalizing the protestors ain't from HK, they're Han Chinese from outside provinces. Just food for thought.


----------



## CQB (Nov 12, 2019)

Yes, this was reported in the media here this morning. Bi-lingual Cantonese speakers, directing Mandarin speakers. Looks like the PAP are well & truly players now.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 12, 2019)

CQB said:


> Yes, this was reported in the media here this morning. Bi-lingual Cantonese speakers, directing Mandarin speakers. Looks like the PAP are well & truly players now.


Yep, that commie Winnie the Poop fucktard (Xi) is going to try and crush HK. Taiwan is going to end up being next if/when HK falls. I think the Chicom's influence might be rolled back if the surrounding countries leverage support to HK's fledgling upstarts. Problem is there are too many politicians and multinational corps in China's pockets.

This is just me, but I get the feeling that if HK's citizens were armed and had a semblance of training they could really fuck up China's police forces. Most of those Chicom goons would be easy picking for anyone with small arms, IEDs, and a modicum of training. It's not like HK is a big place, and most people know where the commies eat, sleep, and rest. 

I dunno, that whole region is a tinderbox. The Chinese Miracle has turned into a plague on mankind.


----------



## frostyred (Nov 12, 2019)

Fuck the Commies. I love the country of China, but I hate the people that have warped it's history, traditions, and direction over the last century.

-Your friendly neighborhood Mandarin Linguist


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep, that commie Winnie the Poop fucktard (Xi) is going to try and crush HK. Taiwan is going to end up being next if/when HK falls. I think the Chicom's influence might be rolled back if the surrounding countries leverage support to HK's fledgling upstarts. Problem is there are too many politicians and multinational corps in China's pockets.
> 
> This is just me, but I get the feeling that if HK's citizens were armed and had a semblance of training they could really fuck up China's police forces. Most of those Chicom goons would be easy picking for anyone with small arms, IEDs, and a modicum of training. It's not like HK is a big place, and most people know where the commies eat, sleep, and rest.
> 
> I dunno, that whole region is a tinderbox. The Chinese Miracle has turned into a plague on mankind.


Hong Kong already fell.  In 1997 when the UK ceded control back to China.  There are Han Chinese police and regular Army troops throughout Hong Kong.  The question is whether the West actually flexes their nuts.  So far we haven't and the capital hasn't fled HK.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 13, 2019)

ThunderHorse said:


> Hong Kong already fell.  In 1997 when the UK ceded control back to China.  There are Han Chinese police and regular Army troops throughout Hong Kong.  The question is whether the West actually flexes their nuts.  So far we haven't and the capital hasn't fled HK.


I don't think they've fallen just yet. There is plenty of discontent against the mainland. Considering what the kids in HK are risking I think some outside aid might help turn the tide of Chicom expansion. 

The Chinese aren't as strong as they make themselves to be. Act strong when you are weak, act weak when you are strong.


----------



## CQB (Nov 13, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The Chinese aren't as strong as they make themselves to be. Act strong when you are weak, act weak when you are strong.


Perhaps, but look at every turn that’s occurred since  Mao united the nation in 1949: the Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution, Dengs economic reforms, joining the WTO (the other event in Sept. 2001, the same week actually) Tienenman Square & now HK.  The economic decline of China has been mooted for a little while now, but hasn’t occurred. The CCP have adapted to each change. They’re survivors & not done yet.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 13, 2019)

CQB said:


> Perhaps, but look at every turn that’s occurred since  Mao united the nation in 1949: the Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution, Dengs economic reforms, joining the WTO (the other event in Sept. 2001, the same week actually) Tienenman Square & now HK.  The economic decline of China has been mooted for a little while now, but hasn’t occurred. The CCP have adapted to each change. They’re survivors & not done yet.


You're right and those commie degenerates definitely aren't done yet. With China's demographic problem, I'll bet they'd happily murder 1/3 of their ethnic population to establish themselves as a power in the Pacific. As for the kids in HK, I doubt the Han have any problem with wiping out the locals in order to maintain 'harmony'. Mass murder and genocide are just how communists roll.

I think with HK we have a chance of rolling back the tentacles of Chicom influence. The world has let those commie cockroaches murder millions and grow in strength & wealth. I think it's time the world takes it's gloves off and lays bare China's bones.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 13, 2019)

Hong Kong is a part of China.  It has Han Chinese leaders propped up by Han Chinese police.  This has taken some time, but the two systems one China thing was never real for China.  To say Hong Kong hasn't fallen isn't in line with Reality.  It's China. The Han Chinese police that have deployed are starting to shoot people, why? There's no repercussion here.  Trump isn't telling to Xi he better stop fucking or the trade talks are off and none of the EU countries give a shit.  

It's funny, they cried a fuck ton about Crimea, but aren't saying much about Hong Kong and the place has been protesting for months.  In August a ton of flights got cancelled because the Airport got cut off due to protests and the cops were playing hard ball.  Until the money leaves (HSBC, Chase, Goldman, RBS, Societe Generale), it's business as usual.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 13, 2019)

ThunderHorse said:


> Hong Kong is a part of China.  It has Han Chinese leaders propped up by Han Chinese police.  This has taken some time, but the two systems one China thing was never real for China.  To say Hong Kong hasn't fallen isn't in line with Reality.  It's China. The Han Chinese police that have deployed are starting to shoot people, why? There's no repercussion here.  Trump isn't telling to Xi he better stop fucking or the trade talks are off and none of the EU countries give a shit.
> 
> It's funny, they cried a fuck ton about Crimea, but aren't saying much about Hong Kong and the place has been protesting for months.  In August a ton of flights got cancelled because the Airport got cut off due to protests and the cops were playing hard ball.  Until the money leaves (HSBC, Chase, Goldman, RBS, Societe Generale), it's business as usual.


I don't think the people of HK are going to willingly let themselves be dragged into concentration camps. The pot is boiling over in HK, when everything comes to a head HK will be autonomous or it will be rubble. As for the banks, those cockroaches sold their souls to the Chinese a while ago. The 'money' stands to lose billions (maybe trillions) in assets if/when China collapses, they sure as shit ain't gonna help out HK.

I think the saying goes, "only a capitalist will sell you the rope you hang him with".


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 31, 2019)

I couldn't find a better spot to post this and while it's not China/Taiwan per se, it is imperial China:
The Takeover: China Is Building Enormous Self-Sustaining Chinese Cities All Over The African Continent

It's not necessarily news to some here and, although it's an InfoWars article, it's an interesting read.  Even if speculative, it speaks volumes to China's intents and potential.  They are not bound by the social and political constraints of the West.   Their actions present them with potentially huge leverage and even larger dividends.


----------



## CQB (Dec 31, 2019)

I found this interesting in light of the above post by @Blizzard.
It should put the brakes on a bit. 
China will get old before it gets rich - MoneyWeek


----------



## Gunz (Dec 31, 2019)

Blizzard said:


> I couldn't find a better spot to post this and while it's not China/Taiwan per se, it is imperial China:
> The Takeover: China Is Building Enormous Self-Sustaining Chinese Cities All Over The African Continent
> 
> It's not necessarily news to some here and, although it's an InfoWars article, it's an interesting read.  Even if speculative, it speaks volumes to China's intents and potential.  They are not bound by the social and political constraints of the West.   Their actions present them with potentially huge leverage and even larger dividends.



They've been essentially "conquering" through the construction of infrastructure.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 31, 2019)

Blizzard said:


> I couldn't find a better spot to post this and while it's not China/Taiwan per se, it is imperial China:
> The Takeover: China Is Building Enormous Self-Sustaining Chinese Cities All Over The African Continent
> 
> It's not necessarily news to some here and, although it's an InfoWars article, it's an interesting read.  Even if speculative, it speaks volumes to China's intents and potential.  They are not bound by the social and political constraints of the West.   Their actions present them with potentially huge leverage and even larger dividends.


Yep. Concentration camps, infanticide, organ harvesting, and unabated colonialism. Chicom's just being Chicom pieces of shit. Although, according to the Chicoms and radical left we're the evil empire. 

Hate to admit it, but the Chicoms school us when it comes to exerting soft power. The advances they've made in the past 30 years are no joke.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 3, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I couldn't find a better spot to post this and while it's not China/Taiwan per se, it is imperial China:
> The Takeover: China Is Building Enormous Self-Sustaining Chinese Cities All Over The African Continent
> 
> It's not necessarily news to some here and, although it's an InfoWars article, it's an interesting read.  Even if speculative, it speaks volumes to China's intents and potential.  They are not bound by the social and political constraints of the West.   Their actions present them with potentially huge leverage and even larger dividends.



What they have done in the past is given a monetary loan and then had a country use that loan for the Chinese to come build a port there. After that country defaults on the loan they take back possession of it and are now port owners in that country. It's a pretty smart play.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 4, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> What they have done in the past is given a monetary loan and then had a country use that loan for the Chinese to come build a port there. After that country defaults on the loan they take back possession of it and are now port owners in that country. It's a pretty smart play.



They are also doing the same for railways too.

A New Chinese-Funded Railway In Kenya Sparks Debt-Trap Fears

Wikipedia link with more info about: Debt-trap diplomacy - Wikipedia


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 4, 2020)

Hell, under the last administration, the Chinese signed a 40 yr lease for Long Beach: Trump Rids Major U.S. Container Port of Chinese Communist Control - Judicial Watch


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 4, 2020)

So the Chinese are going for an economic victory


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 4, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So the Chinese are going for an economic victory


No, their economy is a sham. Right now they're making inroads wherever they can and raping the shit out of any natural/economic resources before the rest of the world wises up. So far it's working though... 

At best, they're trying not to fracture.


----------



## AWP (Jan 4, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> No, their economy is a sham.



Irrelevant. If they don't have an economic victory then they have a diplomatic victory based on economics. You could argue the former helps minimize the latter, but at the end of the day they will hold those locations. We can call it whatever, but they will still have the land.


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Jan 4, 2020)

A good article covering China's infrastructure investment in foreign locales:

China’s Massive Belt and Road Initiative


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> Irrelevant. If they don't have an economic victory then they have a diplomatic victory based on economics. You could argue the former helps minimize the latter, but at the end of the day they will hold those locations. We can call it whatever, but they will still have the land.


Just because they 'have' the land doesn't mean they're going to be able to hold it. Considering how they're acting, I can totally see local populations getting fed up and having Chinese style BBQ.

Add on: I don't see China being able to project fighting forces far from it's shores. With their economy being a sham, I doubt they can afford to do much flexing. Sabotaging China's operations, killing their operatives, and destroying PRC projects abroad, isn't as monumental as it seems.


----------



## CQB (Jan 5, 2020)

China may be ageing quicker before it gets richer.

Does China have an aging problem? | ChinaPower Project


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 5, 2020)

Found a cute YouTube video on the history of China and the chain of events that have led us towards becoming adversaries.






It is long, but it covers a range of history and current events that would take much longer to read and research.

Add On: The last chapter of the video is fairly critical of President. While I disagree with the presenters view on Trump, I think he does a pretty good job of quickly explaining China's rise to power, view of the world, and their history.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 5, 2020)

CQB said:


> China may be ageing quicker before it gets richer.
> 
> Does China have an aging problem? | ChinaPower Project



This has been an issue that Xi has been trying to fix. In 2013 they eased the one child rules and in 2015 lifted it all together. By 2030 1/7th of the population will be 60 plus.


----------



## CQB (Jan 18, 2020)

Meanwhile...

IT happens: Facebook sorry for Xi Jinping's name gaffe

...scatalogical? Nice. I hope Aung Sung washes her hands.


----------



## Totentanz (Jan 18, 2020)

CQB said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> IT happens: Facebook sorry for Xi Jinping's name gaffe
> 
> ...scatalogical? Nice. I hope Aung Sung washes her hands.



They should make that a permanent change.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 10, 2020)

Pompeo speech on China's growing influence at the state and local level.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 15, 2020)

The Chinese problem is finally becoming mainstream talk.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 27, 2020)

Secretary Pompeo has declared that Hong Kong has lost autonomy.

Pompeo says Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China, jeopardizing billions of dollars in trade


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 28, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The Chinese problem is finally becoming mainstream talk.


Serious question.  Is Rogan the new Jon Stewart, does he have the same influence?


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Serious question.  Is Rogan the new Jon Stewart, does he have the same influence?


I'd say Rogan has way more influence than Stewart.  One of the reasons I'm annoyed he's going to Spotify is because of how huge his audience is on youtube.  I've never seen anything like it where on a livestream you'll get 50k watching within minutes of the broadcast starting.  It's rather an amazing phenomenon.  Each podcast episode gets millions of listens.


----------



## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'd say Rogan has way more influence than Stewart.  One of the reasons I'm annoyed he's going to Spotify is because of how huge his audience is on youtube.  I've never seen anything like it where on a livestream you'll get 50k watching within minutes of the broadcast starting.  It's rather an amazing phenomenon.  Each podcast episode gets millions of listens.



Absolutely agree.  And Rogan doesn't seek out a lot of his guest's, unless it's of personal interest to him.  The majority seek him out, due to his influence.


----------



## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

*Merged all the China threads from recent year's. *


----------



## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

Recent events in Hong Kong should concern everyone in the region. 

US, UK, Canada and Australia sign joint statement condemning China's takeover of Hong Kong

And then there's this, China and India are heating up. 

Prepare For War: President Xi Jinping Tells Chinese Army | HW English


----------



## CQB (May 28, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Pompeo speech on China's growing influence at the state and local level.


That’s a really worthwhile speech. Our premier of Victoria (read Governor) has swallowed the PRC line & young hip Chinese have assisted in getting him over the line. So if some young piece of bint comes your way, run.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> That’s a really worthwhile speech. Our premier of Victoria (read Governor) has swallowed the PRC line & young hip Chinese have assisted in getting him over the line. So if some young piece of bint comes your way, run.


Great advice! Seriously, the amount of obvious PRC ideological plants and 'rich bureaucrat kids' at the schools was astounding. Could always tell who was who based on their dress, vics, and accessories. Also noticed the old school commie handlers wore shabby, but well repaired clothes. They definitely like dark earthy colors.

Funny story. In college at the beginning of the semester the you introduce yourself to your peers and give a little background info. Anytime the words Army, Infantry, or Paratrooper were included in the introduction the PRC kids went stone faced. If you sat next to them or around them them they would disappear from class as well.

Used to think it was cause I was ugly... . Now I think there was some sort of cultural and class connotations that made them uncomfortable.


----------



## CQB (May 28, 2020)

This looks grim...

Dragon strike

China is taking unprecedented steps to crush dissent in Hong Kong. The rest of the world should be afraid, too. 

The people of Hong Kong want two things: to choose how they are governed, and to be subject to the rule of law. The Chinese Communist Party finds both ideas so frightening that many expected it to send troops to crush last year’s vast protests in Hong Kong. Instead, it bided its time. Now, with the world distracted by covid-19 and mass protests difficult because of social distancing, it has chosen a quieter way to show who’s boss. That threatens a broader reckoning with the world—and not just over Hong Kong, but also over the South China Sea and Taiwan.

On May 21st China declared, in effect, that Hong Kongers deemed to pose a threat to the party will become subject to the party’s wrath. A new security law, written in Beijing, will create still-to-be defined crimes of subversion and secession, terms used elsewhere in China to lock up dissidents, including Uighurs and Tibetans. Hong Kong will have no say in drafting the law, which will let China station its secret police there. The message is clear. Rule by fear is about to begin.

This is the most flagrant violation yet of the principle of “one country, two systems”. When the British colony was handed back to China in 1997, China agreed that Hong Kong would enjoy a “high degree of autonomy”, including impartial courts and free speech. Many Hong Kongers are outraged (see China section). Some investors are scared, too. The territory’s stockmarket fell by 5.6% on May 22nd, its biggest drop in five years. Hong Kong is a global commercial hub not only because it is situated next to the Chinese mainland, but also because it enjoys the rule of law. Business disputes are settled impartially, by rules that are known in advance. If China’s unaccountable enforcers are free to impose the party’s whims in Hong Kong, it will be a less attractive place for global firms to operate.

China’s move also has implications far beyond Hong Kong. “One country, two systems” was supposed to be a model for Taiwan, a democratic island of 24m that China also sees as its own. The aim was to show that reunification with the motherland need not mean losing one’s liberty. Under President Xi Jinping, China seems to have tired of this charade. Increasingly, it is making bare-knuckle threats instead. The re-election in January of a China-sceptic Taiwanese president, Tsai Ing-wen, will have convinced China’s rulers that the chances of a peaceful reunification are vanishingly small. On May 22nd, at the opening of China’s rubber-stamp parliament, the prime minister, Li Keqiang, ominously cut the word “peaceful” from his ritual reference to reunification. China has stepped up war games around Taiwan and its nationalists have been braying online for an invasion.

China is at odds with other countries, too. In its building of island fortresses in the South China Sea, it ignores both international law and the claims of smaller neighbours. This week hundreds, perhaps thousands of Chinese troops crossed China’s disputed border with India in the Himalayas. Minor scuffles along this frontier are common, but the latest incursion came as a state-owned Chinese paper asserted new claims to land that its nuclear-armed neighbour deems Indian (see Asia section). And, as a sombre backdrop to all this, relations with the United States are worse than they have been in decades, poisoning everything from trade and investment to scientific collaboration.

However much all the regional muscle-flexing appals the world, it makes sense to the Chinese Communist Party. In Hong Kong the party wants to stop a “colour revolution”, which it thinks could bring democrats to power there despite China’s best efforts to rig the system. If eroding Hong Kong’s freedoms causes economic damage, so be it, party bigwigs reason. The territory is still an important place for Chinese firms to raise international capital, especially since the Sino-American feud makes it harder and riskier for them to do so in New York. But Hong Kong’s gdp is equivalent to only 3% of mainland China’s now, down from more than 18% in 1997, because the mainland’s economy has grown 15-fold since then. China’s rulers assume that multinational firms and banks will keep a base in Hong Kong, simply to be near the vast Chinese market. They are probably right.

The simple picture that President Donald Trump paints of America and China locked in confrontation suits China’s rulers well. The party thinks that the balance of power is shifting in China’s favour. Mr Trump’s insults feed Chinese nationalist anger, which the party is delighted to exploit—just as it does any tensions between America and its allies. It portrays the democracy movement in Hong Kong as an American plot. That is absurd, but it helps explain many mainlanders’ scorn for Hong Kong’s protesters.

The rest of the world should stand up to China’s bullying. On the Sino-Indian border, the two sides should talk more to avoid miscalculations, as their leaders promised to in 2018. China should realise that, if it tries the tactics it has used in the South China Sea, building structures on disputed ground and daring others to push back, it will be viewed with greater distrust by all its neighbours.

In the case of Taiwan China faces a powerful deterrent: a suggestion in American law that America might come to Taiwan’s aid were the island to be attacked. There is a growing risk that a cocksure China may decide to put that to the test. America should make clear that doing so would be extremely dangerous. America’s allies should echo that, loudly.

Hong Kong’s options are bleaker. The Hong Kong Policy Act requires America to certify annually that the territory should in trade and other matters be treated as separate from China. This week the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, declared that “facts on the ground” show Hong Kong is no longer autonomous. This allows America to slap tariffs on the territory’s exports, as it already does to those from the mainland. That is a powerful weapon, but the scope for miscalculation is vast, potentially harming Hong Kongers and driving out global firms and banks. It would be better, as the law also proposes, to impose sanctions on officials who abuse human rights in Hong Kong. Also, Britain should grant full residency rights to the hundreds of thousands of Hong Kongers who hold a kind of second-class British passport—much as Ms Tsai this week opened Taiwan’s door to Hong Kong citizens. None of this will stop China from imposing its will on Hong Kong. The party’s interests always trump the people’s.


----------



## Dame (May 28, 2020)

So it turns out they are not just going after colleges. @Steve1839 found this little gem. Keep in mind Clark County School District is the fifth largest school district in the U.S. I sincerely hope this is the end of this association. The offices of the institute are listed as the same as CCSD.
https://newsroom.ccsd.net/wp-conten...School-Trustees-meeting-recap-Feb-28-2019.pdf


----------



## NovemberWhiskey (May 28, 2020)

May I ask if someone of you is able to find the exacts on the new Chinese 'security law' in either Chinese or Japanese?

I'm seeing only scarce citations in English sources reporting on Asia I curbed so far (Japan Times, Guardian, BBC).

Would like to see how exactly is their 'any activities (of subversion)' worded in Chinese itself, as English may mean shades get lost in translation / Chinese tends to imply how harsh response awaits or is threatened more directly than the same expressions in English.


----------



## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> May I ask if someone of you is able to find the exacts on the new Chinese 'security law' in either Chinese or Japanese?
> 
> I'm seeing only scarce citations in English sources reporting on Asia I curbed so far (Japan Times, Guardian, BBC).
> 
> Would like to see how exactly is their 'any activities (of subversion)' worded in Chinese itself, as English may mean shades get lost in translation / Chinese tends to imply how harsh response awaits or is threatened more directly than the same expressions in English.



I don't understand the language.  But here's the best English explanation I could find. 

What Beijing’s national security law for Hong Kong covers, who should worry?


----------



## RackMaster (May 28, 2020)

This is developing fast now.  

US to cancel visas of students found to have Chinese military ties


----------



## Kraut783 (May 28, 2020)

Good move, still wonder why we approve visas and student visas from countries we have a conflict with....China, Iran...etc.


----------



## racing_kitty (May 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Good move, still wonder why we approve visas and student visas from countries we have a conflict with....China, Iran...etc.


Foreign students pay full freight more often than not. Who cares about something as trifling as National conflict when they’re trying to get all that sweet out-of-state tuition to pad their coffers. Follow the money


----------



## RackMaster (May 30, 2020)

And Hong Kong is done. 

I hope everyone that want's to get out, does. 

'No cards left': Hong Kong residents sell up and search for way out as China cements grip


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 2, 2020)

And now terminator soldiers. lol

China 'plans to genetically-modify soldiers to make Terminator-style army'


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

Just like we had to root out the Soviets in our midst we are now rooting out the Chinese communists.  

https://www.newsweek.com/ucla-profe...2Iunx1_QYQD-Pr7wz4Hp15Pjf4nStgI3UCogxhrQAnzuQ


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And now terminator soldiers. lol
> 
> China 'plans to genetically-modify soldiers to make Terminator-style army'


What's sad is the people they're gonna be using for the human experiments. All the kids rounded up during the HK raids and political dissidents swept up during the Covid crackdown are gonna end up dying as lab animals for the PRC.

Pretty sobering when you think about it.


ThunderHorse said:


> Just like we had to root out the Soviets in our midst we are now rooting out the Chinese communists.


----------



## CQB (Jun 5, 2020)

HK has been part of China since the Qin Dynasty, so its being returned. It’s interesting  me that the PRC chooses now to assert authority instead of waiting a few more years.  There’s a faint echoes of Sudetenland with this & part of the great decoupling. Our govt. is making moves as well to limit foreign investment.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 9, 2020)

Another jackass on Chinese payroll indicted.  Harvard University Professor Indicted on False Statement Charges


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 16, 2020)

Twenty Indian soldiers dead after clash with China along disputed border

Oh shit. Real shots fired today.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Twenty Indian soldiers dead after clash with China along disputed border
> 
> Oh shit. Real shots fired today.


----------



## CQB (Jun 17, 2020)

Looks like no shots fired, just hypothermia. Another report had them throwing rocks at each other. The link below has Chinese troopies stepping over the line again.

India-China border news LIVE UPDATES: Argument over Chinese post in buffer zone sparked led to clashes

the Chinese version which had them using rocks & iron bars & of course blamed India yadda yadda. 

‘20 Indian soldiers killed’ in border clash with Chinese troops


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 17, 2020)

Two nuclear powers, and they’re killing each other with sticks and stones. Fucking 2020, yo!!!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

Well that's getting hot.  Yikes.


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 17, 2020)

China Says It Agrees with India to Peacefully Solve Tensions


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 17, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> China Says It Agrees with India to Peacefully Solve Tensions


Modhi would be a fool to trust the Chicoms. They're flexing to try and quash internal dissent. Between Covid, factory shutdowns, and growing dissent inside the PRC, Xi is trying to maintain a semblance of order.


----------



## CQB (Jun 17, 2020)

CCP: two steps forward, one step back,two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward...


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 17, 2020)

Soldiers fell to their deaths as India and China's troops fought with rocks

Sounds like most of those killed were pushed off a cliff. Hell of a way to go.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 18, 2020)

China is pushing everyone's buttons. 

China Orders Prayer Flags Taken Down in Tibet in an Assault on Culture, Faith


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 18, 2020)

People are saying this is China not sure though 'Massive' cyber attack on Australian Government


----------



## Dame (Jun 18, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> People are saying this is China not sure though 'Massive' cyber attack on Australian Government



Hell, I'm convinced the T-Mobile attack was China. The very unspecific "south east" area where the failure occurred? Yeah.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 18, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> People are saying this is China not sure though 'Massive' cyber attack on Australian Government


I'm a day late and dollar short today.  I was going to post a similar story...

Australian leader says unnamed state increasing cyberattacks

Why am I posting this in the China thread? The unnamed state could be Canada...


----------



## Jaknight (Jun 18, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I'm a day late and dollar short today.  I was going to post a similar story...
> 
> Australian leader says unnamed state increasing cyberattacks
> 
> Why am I posting this in the China thread? The unnamed state could be Canada...


Yes it could be Canada I recently saw the movie Canadian Bacon and it made me very aware of our “friendly” Northern neighbor


----------



## CQB (Jun 18, 2020)

We’ve been having a bit of a chat about this today. For most people in Oz it’s been under the radar but our PM has now pretty much told us all it’s only a big country with very sophisticated equipment that can do an attack such as this. Braille reading is sometimes not mandatory.
There’s been those in government who have been shouting in the wilderness for some time (Andrew Hastie & on a lightly different tack, Jim Molan). There’s  been previous cyber attacks on Parliament House in Canberra, the Australian National University (ANU) and the Bureau of Meteorology.

Exclusive: Australia concluded China was behind hack on parliament, political parties – sources   

Chinese hackers breach ANU, putting national security at risk

China blamed for 'massive' cyber attack on BoM computer

So to today’s inconvenience 

Australia targeted by 'state-based' cyber attack

The cool thing about cyberattacks is there’s no real world equivalent in retaliation.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I'm a day late and dollar short today.  I was going to post a similar story...
> 
> Australian leader says unnamed state increasing cyberattacks
> 
> Why am I posting this in the China thread? The unnamed state could be Canada...



We only recently got high speed internet.


----------



## AWP (Jun 19, 2020)

China (allegedly) attacking Australia after the two tangle over CV-19? Color me shocked...


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 19, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> We only recently got high speed internet.


That's when all these problems really started...high speed internet...


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 19, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> That's when all these problems really started...high speed internet...




I always thought it was Harambe, but its the internet bubble in the 90s and Monica Lewensky is when the trickle down of shit really started.


----------



## Arf (Jun 19, 2020)

My favorite part of this thread is seeing @RackMaster like the comments about people claiming that it is Canada.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 19, 2020)

We catch China in the cookie jar all the time, and yet very rarely do we overtly punish her. Maybe a good smack with some more tariffs will be a good start.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

Arf said:


> My favorite part of this thread is seeing @RackMaster like the comments about people claiming that it is Canada.



Wouldn't want to crush their dreams.  lol


----------



## CQB (Jun 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> China (allegedly) attacking Australia after the two tangle over CV-19? Color me shocked...


Our PM led the way & 145 nations signed on to explore the origins of C-19. In the face of this overwhelmingly ‘fuck you’ the PRC capitulated. The facade definitely slipped: 
It didn’t happen 
It was caused by US troops 
Scooped up all available PPE globally for home use
Benevolently donated sub par PPE to everyone else. It fell apart, didn’t meet standards. Well done China, we’ll done.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 19, 2020)

Wasn't sure if it was covered here, but while the daughter of Huawei's founder is living it up in luxury two Canadians have been falsely imprisoned as an act of revenge.

The Cruel Fate of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor in China

China is a garbage nation.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 19, 2020)

They were officially charged with spying now that our court has said that the Huawei executive should be deported.   And our dipshit in charge is 'disappointed'.

Trudeau says he’s ‘disappointed’ by China’s charges against Michael Kovrig, Michael Spavor


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 19, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> They were officially charged with spying now that our court has said that the Huawei executive should be deported.   And our dipshit in charge is 'disappointed'.
> 
> Trudeau says he’s ‘disappointed’ by China’s charges against Michael Kovrig, Michael Spavor


Are there any prominent CCP party officials or family members that Canada can take hostage as well? I mean shoot... last I heard there were a bunch of loaded Chicom millionaires yucking it up in Vancouver. Figured you guys might release the wendigos or something to make the Chicoms fook off and give you your people back.


----------



## CQB (Jun 19, 2020)

“...espionage into information warfare and ultimately potentially actual warfare.”
This is from our national daily today.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 20, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Are there any prominent CCP party officials or family members that Canada can take hostage as well? I mean shoot... last I heard there were a bunch of loaded Chicom millionaires yucking it up in Vancouver. Figured you guys might release the wendigos or something to make the Chicoms fook off and give you your people back.



Probably a fuck ton but with our clown in charge, nothing will happen.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> View attachment 34506
> “...espionage into information warfare and ultimately potentially actual warfare.”
> This is from our national daily today.


Well damn, looks like things are getting real for y'all. Considering what's happening, seems the Australian public is more receptive and will hopefully be more vengeful to this than our tantrum throwing populace.



RackMaster said:


> Probably a fuck ton but with our clown in charge, nothing will happen.


Sigh... I'm sorry guys. I can't wait for Canada to rise again and strike fear into the hearts of her enemies. I hate that nations like China, Iran, etc, use Canada and siphon her wealth away.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 20, 2020)

And now all the protestors in Hong Kong will be labeled a national security threat.   Tiananmen Redux.

BREAKING: Beijing given jurisdiction on national security cases as draft Hong Kong law revealed - report | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 21, 2020)

I have a feeling China is using the 2 Michael's as leverage to get our idiot in charge to let Hauwei in. 

'They are applying pressure,' Bains says of China's push for Canada to adopt Huawei's 5G tech


----------



## AWP (Jun 21, 2020)

Using Huawei is giving China's NSA all of your data.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 22, 2020)

Even the US is doing more for the 2 Canadian's. 

Pompeo calls on China to release two Michaels, says U.S. stands with Canada

And a wife is speaking out.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kovrig-spavor-nadjibulla-interview-1.5621981


----------



## CQB (Jun 23, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I have a feeling China is using the 2 Michael's as leverage to get our idiot in charge to let Hauwei in.
> 
> 'They are applying pressure,' Bains says of China's push for Canada to adopt Huawei's 5G tech


It’s a similar play to what they’re attempting to do doing in Oz, we have a guy on death row in the PRC. The applied pressure is in other trade areas, education, tourism, barley & beef as we rejected Hua Wei some time ago.
ETA: any protestations that Hua Wei does not do the Chinese governments bidding is manifest nonsense in my view.
Australian sentenced to death in China for drug trafficking honest to a fault, friends say


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 24, 2020)

It's good to see our intelligence community speaking out about China. But the current government won't do anything about it because many of them are the individuals warned about in this.  

Why CSIS believes Canada is a ‘permissive target’ for China’s interference

Good to see the Foreign Affairs Minister transfer this debt to Canadian financial institutions but he should have had to do this before he became a Member of Parliament.   

Foreign affairs minister has repaid mortgages held with state-run Bank of China


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 25, 2020)

This is a coincidence, first this letter... 

Prominent Canadians call on Trudeau to end Meng Wanzhou case to free 2 Michaels

And now this...

China says Kovrig, Spavor may be freed if Canada ends Meng Wanzhou case


----------



## CQB (Jun 25, 2020)

The Alex Joske report is worth a look. Hopefully Canada will look at what occurred here & grow a set.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 25, 2020)

Good to see Trudeau is at least listening to his advisors on this one. 

Trudeau says Meng-Michaels swap would jeopardize safety of 'millions' of Canadians abroad - iPolitics


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 26, 2020)

Be careful if you use Zoom for anything sensitive. 

Zoom admits cutting off activists' accounts in obedience to China


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 26, 2020)

Investing in a vaccine with direct links to the Chinese Army, what could go wrong. 

Canada’s surprising history and questionable partnership with a Chinese company and its military-backed COVID-19 vaccine

I doubt Trudeau would go this far to piss of his Chinese friend's. 

Senators call on Trudeau to sanction Chinese officials over human rights violations


----------



## compforce (Jun 26, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Be careful if you use Zoom for anything sensitive.
> 
> Zoom admits cutting off activists' accounts in obedience to China


It's a valuable lesson, don't trust Chinese software...  For those of you with teenagers:
Warning—Apple Suddenly Catches TikTok Secretly Spying On Millions Of iPhone Users


----------



## Grunt (Jun 26, 2020)

China should be a complete "anathema" to us now. 

Have I said I hate China lately? If not, I hate them!


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 26, 2020)

We haven't had one of these in a while, so... 

FUCK CHINA!! 

Oh and Fuck Pakistan, because.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jun 28, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Oh and Fuck Pakistan, because.


Pakistan doesn't rate all caps...?  You shout about China but whisper about Pakistan...?


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 28, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Pakistan doesn't rate all caps...?  You shout about China but whisper about Pakistan...?



Oh they deserve more than all caps but I wanted the focus on China.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 28, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Pakistan doesn't rate all caps...?  You shout about China but whisper about Pakistan...?


Ask around about this board’s penchant for the use of rusty Pakistani pizza cutters. “Fuck China” is fairly tame in comparison. 🤣


----------



## AWP (Jun 28, 2020)

Did someone say "Fuck Pakistan?"


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

Life in a labour camp...

Hong Kong security law revealed - violators may face life imprisonment | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2020)

It was only a matter of time. 

US Designates China's Huawei & ZTE As National Security Threats


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It was only a matter of time.
> 
> US Designates China's Huawei & ZTE As National Security Threats



It's about time.


----------



## CQB (Jul 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It was only a matter of time.
> 
> US Designates China's Huawei & ZTE As National Security Threats


No shit Colombo. I’d say the Chinese have a sense of humour. The team they support is the Canberra Raiders.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Life in a labour camp...
> 
> Hong Kong security law revealed - violators may face life imprisonment | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


But America is bad...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 1, 2020)

De-Escalation talks going very well? 

Army moves 3 divisions, tanks to Ladakh sector


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 1, 2020)

What's going on between India and China right now is VERY interesting.  If there's going to be any drama, I hope it holds off for two more weeks ;)


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 1, 2020)

China is inhumane asshole. Jesus Christ.
Feds seize products made from suspected human hair in crackdown on China forced labor

Also, for any fans of Branched Chain Amino Acids, try to find out where they're being sourced. 
The Vegetarian Resource Group Blog


> amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine, used today mostly in dietary supplements and nutraceutical products, may be derived from human hair or duck feathers. One large company reported this information to us based on an official statement received from its Chinese supplier.


(Not a vegetarian. Just saying to try and avoid Chinese products.)


----------



## AWP (Jul 1, 2020)

The Chinese gov't is just scum.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 1, 2020)

Fuck Pakistan?


----------



## Kheenbish (Jul 2, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Jul 3, 2020)

Hong Kong as it was, is no more.

Canada suspends extradition treaty with Hong Kong in wake of national security law


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> It was only a matter of time.
> 
> US Designates China's Huawei & ZTE As National Security Threats


Am I the only one who assumed that we were already doing this?  Either way, unsurprising.  

Chinese telecom penetration (esp. Huawei) into developing countries will be an issue of great concern going forward. I think the US and EU have effectively ceded control of telco infrastructure in Africa to Huawei, and next-gen infrastructure in the Middle East.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 3, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Am I the only one who assumed that we were already doing this?  Either way, unsurprising.
> 
> Chinese telecom penetration (esp. Huawei) into developing countries will be an issue of great concern going forward. I think the US and EU have effectively ceded control of telco infrastructure in Africa to Huawei, and next-gen infrastructure in the Middle East.


Hate because it’s true.


----------



## AWP (Jul 3, 2020)

And it isn't like Africa has very strategic, easily exploitable minerals in abundance....strong work US/EU!


----------



## CQB (Jul 5, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Am I the only one who assumed that we were already doing this?  Either way, unsurprising.
> 
> Chinese telecom penetration (esp. Huawei) into developing countries will be an issue of great concern going forward. I think the US and EU have effectively ceded control of telco infrastructure in Africa to Huawei, and next-gen infrastructure in the Middle East.


Not over here. It’s been mooted that the punch up vis a vis us & the PRC really started with our decision not to allow them to backbone the entire nation.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2020)

Oh the irony.  

China warns citizens to exercise caution in travelling to Canada


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2020)

And anyone pro democracy in Hong Kong disappears. 

Hong Kong security law: Police handed power to do warrantless searches, freeze assets, intercept comms, control internet | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And anyone pro democracy in Hong Kong disappears.
> 
> Hong Kong security law: Police handed power to do warrantless searches, freeze assets, intercept comms, control internet | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


NBA players say don't talk about it because it hurts their checkbook.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 6, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And anyone pro democracy in Hong Kong disappears.
> 
> Hong Kong security law: Police handed power to do warrantless searches, freeze assets, intercept comms, control internet | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


It'll be interesting to see how U.S. businesses play this.  Certainly, some will remain but I have to believe, from an ops/risk perspective, maintaining a presence there and in other parts of China may now be too high risk.  We've already seen a shift in some manufacturing to other countries.  Enough shift could result in significant economic impact to China.


----------



## AWP (Jul 7, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> It'll be interesting to see how U.S. businesses play this.  Certainly, some will remain but I have to believe, from an ops/risk perspective, maintaining a presence there and in other parts of China may now be too high risk.  We've already seen a shift in some manufacturing to other countries.  Enough shift could result in significant economic impact to China.



I support businesses moving from CN to PK. I still wouldn't buy their products.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 7, 2020)

AWP said:


> I support businesses moving from CN to PK. I still wouldn't buy their products.


That's the other part of the equation - consumers.  Will they notice or care?

I pay much more attention now.  I may  not be all "Buy American" but I definitely make a concious effort not to buy anything made in China whenever I can help it.  I also avoid products from Pakistan, because, you know, fuck them.  Plus, I can get my underwear from the kids working for the cartels in Mexico and South America for cheaper anyway.


----------



## AWP (Jul 7, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> That's the other part of the equation - consumers.  Will they notice or care?
> 
> I pay much more attention now.  I may  not be all "Buy American" but I definitely make a concious effort not to buy anything made in China whenever I can help it.  I also avoid products from Pakistan, because, you know, fuck them.  Plus, I can get my underwear from the kids working for the cartels in Mexico and South America for cheaper anyway.



Consumers don't know or care...sort of. Busineses will listen to the consumers, but also the stockholders. If they think they can "shape the narrative" and keep everyone happy, they would bail in a heartbeat. Look at companies pulling ads from Facebook. That's all about image, so if a company thinks a move from one country's cheap, virtual slave labor to a different country's cheap, virtual slave labor is good...they gone.


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 7, 2020)

TikTok is leaving Hong Kong following controversial national security law


You're going to start seeing China _really_ crack down on Hong Kong now. Wait, I should say you won't see anything now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> TikTok is leaving Hong Kong following controversial national security law
> 
> 
> You're going to start seeing China _really_ crack down on Hong Kong now. Wait, I should say you won't see anything now.



TikTok is owned by a Beijing based conglomerate.  Every major Conglomerate in China has ties to the Communist government.  This is just smoke being blown up the ass of willfully ignorant people.


----------



## CQB (Jul 7, 2020)

I heard a random report that India has done the same.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 8, 2020)

Marxists wiping out history...

Hong Kong schools told to remove books that violate new law as police powers extended


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 9, 2020)

And now you have no chance of a legal defence. 

Hong Kong security law: New police powers to surveil lawyers a 'major threat', barrister and legal scholars say | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## CQB (Jul 9, 2020)

It looks like they dropped a dim sim or two over this.

Chinese embassy tells Australia to 'stop meddling' after Hong Kong visa extensions announced


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 16, 2020)

AG Bill Barr on the China threat: 
Just the News @JustTheNews

In the video, he states his aim for the speech was to have Chinese Communist leaders find it despicable.  Mission accomplished!  

This speech was on point; direct and pulled no punches - calling out companies like Apple et al. Just a leader telling it like it is.  Bravo! 🔥


----------



## CQB (Jul 17, 2020)

There was a good article today in our national daily by John Lee, who has some form in this area, I'll have to paraphrase as it's behind a paywall. The conclusion of the article (p.10) notes that the PRC got it's way with Hong Kong (it's always been part on China anyway, my thought) but Beijing has overestimated it's power to intimidate lesser nations, who now have understood what the PRC is doing. China needs goodwill to rise but material seduction & coercion is not working anymore. The PRC has limited tools to comprehend & respond to this new paradigm & the leadership is starting to get the message. This has left them little room for retreat & more angry towards what they consider to be inferior nations. Unchecked, this could "take the region to a very dark place. But we now know the problem is not so much that Beijing is too powerful to resist but there was a previous lack of collective resolve to stand firm."


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 20, 2020)

I know moving minority groups in cattle car's have been done for evil in the past.  But this time it's different, the Chinese government is going to do it right, this time.  

Chinese ambassador confronted on live television with Uighur prisoner footage


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

UK ends extradition treaty with Hong Kong: 

UK suspends extradition treaty with Hong Kong


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 20, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I know moving minority groups in cattle car's have been done for evil in the past.  But this time it's different, the Chinese government is going to do it right, this time.
> 
> Chinese ambassador confronted on live television with Uighur prisoner footage



I'm surprised they let him on a freeform show like that.


----------



## CQB (Jul 20, 2020)

Journos have a knack of ambushing guests. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case here.


----------



## AWP (Jul 20, 2020)

If everyone's a Nazi then no one is a Nazi, but when you're herding people into trains, sending them to camps, and mass sterilization of women...

How much is Bayer pharmeceuticals making off this deal? How do you say "I.G. Farben" in Mandarin?

But hey America, keep cashing those Chinese checks and buying their cheap goods. Hollywood's run by pedophiles and compromised with Chinese money and influence. Torrenting is theft...but it doesn't involved systemic rape.


----------



## CQB (Jul 20, 2020)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 22, 2020)

China getting kicked outta their consulate office in Houston. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285772143788261376


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Jul 22, 2020)

Pretty standard procedure for closing down facilities on foreign soil on short notice. It's interesting, but not exactly something to get worked up about.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 22, 2020)

It's like the scene from Jack Ryan, except there aren't agitators rioting in the streets in front of it.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 22, 2020)

I hope we stop Chinese Student Visa's also....


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 22, 2020)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> Pretty standard procedure for closing down facilities on foreign soil on short notice. It's interesting, but not exactly something to get worked up about.


I think they'd have high-speed/capacity shredders.
Burning seems slow and tedious, unless the paper has covid on it and they are trying  to pollute/infect Houston.


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (Jul 23, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I think they'd have high-speed/capacity shredders.
> Burning seems slow and tedious, unless the paper has covid on it and they are trying  to pollute/infect Houston.



Trust me, the shredders are running as well.

If their "file plan" is anything remotely like ours, of the pile of sensitive docs: half probably shouldn't have been classified to begin with, a quarter were properly classified but are so old that they're no longer sensitive, and the remaining quarter _might_ contain something sensitive and active.

Most of that burn pile is probably lunch orders and drawings of dicks.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 23, 2020)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> Trust me, the shredders are running as well.
> 
> If their "file plan" is anything remotely like ours, of the pile of sensitive docs: half probably shouldn't have been classified to begin with, a quarter were properly classified but are so old that they're no longer sensitive, and the remaining quarter _might_ contain something sensitive and active.
> 
> Most of that burn pile is probably lunch orders and drawings of dicks.


or Winnie the Xi cartoons.


----------



## Totentanz (Jul 23, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> or Winnie the Xi cartoons.



I'm not sure what the plans are for the building/site after this, but a Winnie the Pooh flag on the flagpole would amuse me greatly.

Doubly so if it were named the A. A. Milne Building.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 29, 2020)

Anyone have mystery seeds from China on their bingo list?

Mystery seeds from China are landing in Americans' mailboxes

This is also important.
Fifty-four scientists have lost their jobs as a result of NIH probe into foreign ties


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 29, 2020)

The seeds are showing up in Canada as well.

CFIA says don't plant 'unsolicited packages of seeds' received in mail


----------



## CQB (Jul 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Anyone have mystery seeds from China on their bingo list?
> 
> Mystery seeds from China are landing in Americans' mailboxes
> 
> ...


Overnight there’s been a joint statement from AUSMIN strengthening US/OZ cooperation. It would be a good opportunity for some of our researchers to fill the breach Stateside.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Anyone have mystery seeds from China on their bingo list?
> 
> Mystery seeds from China are landing in Americans' mailboxes
> 
> ...





RackMaster said:


> The seeds are showing up in Canada as well.
> 
> CFIA says don't plant 'unsolicited packages of seeds' received in mail


Economic warfare, can we say we are at war with China yet?


----------



## 757 (Jul 29, 2020)




----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 29, 2020)

There's a kind of dishonest method of getting good reviews on trading sites by traders to get good ones by sending out their product to random addresses so the platform recognises it as a legitimate purchase and then the traders do the reviews themselves. This could quite possibly be that. I would doubt it's any type of economic warfare or the like since there would be much better ways to propagate invasive plants than random letter drops eg by way of the dip bag.


----------



## Dame (Jul 29, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> There's a kind of dishonest method of getting good reviews on trading sites by traders to get good ones by sending out their product to random addresses so the platform recognises it as a legitimate purchase and then the traders do the reviews themselves. This could quite possibly be that. I would doubt it's any type of economic warfare or the like since there would be much better ways to propagate invasive plants than random letter drops eg by way of the dip bag.


I thought this same thing. But a friend on FB put out what I hope is a joke image of the marijuana plant that sprouted. He is an AD Army officer. 😆 What a great way to take all our clearance folks out. LOL I mean they do have our addresses and other PII thanks to OPD. 🙄


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

Iowa Department of Agriculture is taking this very serioues:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288493416821792769


----------



## AWP (Jul 30, 2020)

Dame said:


> I thought this same thing. But a friend on FB put out what I hope is a joke image of the marijuana plant that sprouted. He is an AD Army officer. 😆 What a great way to take all our clearance folks out. LOL I mean they do have our addresses and other PII thanks to OPD. 🙄



Imagine trying to get out of a narcotics charge using the "I planted what China sent me" defense.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Iowa Department of Agriculture is taking this very serioues:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288493416821792769



Looking at those declarations I'm wagering it's the fake review scam but they're trying to skimp on sending the actual product like they usually do and are using roughly equivalent weights of cheap shit they've got from somewhere. Interesting one came from Uzbekistan since usually this thing is done by the Chinese.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 30, 2020)

I've just seen on the news here that this is happening here too, or at least one incident. From Kenya.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Iowa Department of Agriculture is taking this very serioues:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288493416821792769


Toss some caster beans in and RTS.


----------



## Dame (Jul 30, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Toss some caster beans in and RTS.


I know you're kidding but dang. 
RTS is the way I generally deal with nonsense. If they include a postage paid envelope they get their original crap torn up and sent back in it.


----------



## Dame (Jul 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Iowa Department of Agriculture is taking this very serioues:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288493416821792769


They look like herb seeds. But I'm glad they are taking this seriously.
I like the way they try to cover their asses by putting things like "granular toy" and "grass stud earring" on the packing slip.


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Jul 30, 2020)

Dame said:


> I thought this same thing. But a friend on FB put out what I hope is a joke image of the marijuana plant that sprouted. He is an AD Army officer. 😆 What a great way to take all our clearance folks out. LOL I mean they do have our addresses and other PII thanks to OPD. 🙄


About 7 yrs ago I busted out on a random piss test at a great paying gravey job I had. Not even a yr into atleast a 3yr project. Attended a renewing of vows after a funeral. Anyway, a wife who has a script for medicinal weed for anxiety puts it n desserts. Not knowing I ate a good amount. Came back home went to work. Monday/piss test day I get called over the radio and bam. Fuck me running, instantly. Done. I haven't burned 1 n over 20yrs. I'd love to but can't (gotta work). What tripped me out was in "our" office my foreman and superintendent was asking am I good to go. Offering fake p. Or someone else's p. Mad thinking about it. Took 3 days to figure out how it all happened. Live and learn, right? And, fuck Duke Power.


----------



## Dame (Jul 30, 2020)

n Awe of Y'all said:


> About 7 yrs ago I busted out on a random piss test at a great paying gravey job I had. Not even a yr into atleast a 3yr project. Attended a renewing of vows after a funeral. Anyway, a wife who has a script for medicinal weed for anxiety puts it n desserts. Not knowing I ate a good amount. Came back home went to work. Monday/piss test day I get called over the radio and bam. Fuck me running, instantly. Done. I haven't burned 1 n over 20yrs. I'd love to but can't (gotta work). What tripped me out was in "our" office my foreman and superintendent was asking am I good to go. Offering fake p. Or someone else's p. Mad thinking about it. Took 3 days to figure out how it all happened. Live and learn, right? And, fuck Duke Power.


We are advised to stay clear of any house that even has an Rx for it. They are extremely strict on that. Sucks you went through that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

While we're bickering with ourselves about the POTUS's response to COVID or BLM shit.  Clay has figured out exactly what is going on.  A Modern Cold War with China and we're not even paying attention.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288916889045893122


----------



## CQB (Jul 31, 2020)

Ya think!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 1, 2020)

Prominent US senator, who had a CCP spy in her employ for over a decade, is trying to make a case for the US to not bear down legal action on China. Makes one wonder where her loyalties are.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 1, 2020)

It is shocking to hear a sitting elected official state this kind of nonsense...

“We hold China as a potential trading partner, as a country that has pulled tens of millions of people out of poverty in a short period of time, and as a country growing into a respectable nation amongst other nations,” Feinstein said, “I deeply believe that.” 

Unbelievable....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 1, 2020)

A Country that is putting millions of its own people into Concentration camps.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 1, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> It is shocking to hear a sitting elected official state this kind of nonsense...
> 
> “We hold China as a potential trading partner, as a country that has pulled tens of millions of people out of poverty in a short period of time, and as a country growing into a respectable nation amongst other nations,” Feinstein said, “I deeply believe that.”
> 
> Unbelievable....


What's fucked is I think Feinstien and her husband own interests in L3 technologies too. You know... the people that manufacture EoTechs, commo gear, and alot of other shit we use.

We've been sold out.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 1, 2020)

Yeah, Holosun optics look a lot like US Optics.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 1, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Prominent US senator, who had a CCP spy in her employ for over a decade, is trying to make a case for the US to not bear down legal action on China. Makes one wonder where her loyalties are.


Her husband has business ties to China, one of the first American CEO's to jump on the China train IIRC.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 2, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Yeah, Holosun optics look a lot like US Optics.


Yep... sigh. God know what else they have copies of.


DA SWO said:


> Her husband has business ties to China, one of the first American CEO's to jump on the China train IIRC.


Makes me wonder how long tech has been moving from our shores to theirs. Fact she still in congress in spite of her husbands open ties to the Chicoms is worrisome.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 2, 2020)

Wrecking the world all over!

China fishing fleet is decimating endangered species, scientists warn


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 2, 2020)

Yeah that's been happening for years now.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 12, 2020)

A good read. 

Hidden Hand review – China's true global ambitions exposed


----------



## CQB (Aug 12, 2020)

I’ve just finished ‘Silent Invasion’ by Clive Hamilton. It’s focussed on Australia but the picture is quite clear.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 15, 2020)

And Hong Kong is the same as mainland China.

Google to reject direct data requests from Hong Kong gov't, treat city same as China - report | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## Totentanz (Aug 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And Hong Kong is the same as mainland China.
> 
> Google to reject direct data requests from Hong Kong gov't, treat city same as China - report | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP



What's Google's motto, again?


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 15, 2020)

Totentanz said:


> What's Google's motto, again?



Oh that's not used any more.  

Former Google Exec: 'Don't Be Evil' Motto Is Dead


----------



## AWP (Aug 15, 2020)

Totentanz said:


> What's Google's motto, again?



The World is Not Enough.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2020)

Nothing new or surprising to most of us.

Wu Mao or 50 Cents Chinese Troll Army manipulates Social Media


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

Sounds like state sanctioned 4chan. For me, its a nice thought that stuff like this goes against the natural order and they have to put a ton of effort into maintaining whatever farce they're at.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Sounds like state sanctioned 4chan. For me, its a nice thought that stuff like this goes against the natural order and they have to put a ton of effort into maintaining whatever farce they're at.



It's just one layer of their offensive cyber warfare operations. 

What Are China’s Cyber Capabilities and Intentions?


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 17, 2020)

Thank you for sharing. The evolution of nations and warfare is supremely interesting; I can't even imagine what the future has in store.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 17, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Oh that's not used any more.
> 
> Former Google Exec: 'Don't Be Evil' Motto Is Dead


Do what China says to do.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 17, 2020)

Trump's intel folks are telling him China is gonna fuck with our elections to stop Trump.

China's anti-Trump election meddling raises new alarm, as DNI calls country biggest threat

I have neither the insight nor the bandwidth to assess how serious this is, or if DNI playing politics and turning our Public Enemy #1 into baba yaga.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Thank you for sharing. The evolution of nations and warfare is supremely interesting; I can't even imagine what the future has in store.



The future will lead to some crazy warfare.  Especially when our enemies are not confined to the same moral and ethical limitations.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 17, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Trump's intel folks are telling him China is gonna fuck with our elections to stop Trump.
> 
> China's anti-Trump election meddling raises new alarm, as DNI calls country biggest threat
> 
> I have neither the insight nor the bandwidth to assess how serious this is, or if DNI playing politics and turning our Public Enemy #1 into baba yaga.



I fully believe they are doing this, but I don't for a second believe the Chinese are "Anti-Trump".

It's the same opinion I have for thinking that the Russians were never pro-Trump; our enemies are Pro-chaos/division, which isn't exactly tied to either political party.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I fully believe they are doing this, but I don't for a second believe the Chinese are "Anti-Trump".
> 
> It's the same opinion I have for thinking that the Russians were never pro-Trump; our enemies are Pro-chaos/division, which isn't exactly tied to either political party.



I do think they are anti-Trump simply because of what Trump has done or tried to do vis-a-vis trade, which would affect their economy.  I also think that per the article, The Big Three--China, Russia, and Iran--will try to screw with our elections regardless of who is running.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 17, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I fully believe they are doing this, but I don't for a second believe the Chinese are "Anti-Trump".
> 
> It's the same opinion I have for thinking that the Russians were never pro-Trump; our enemies are Pro-chaos/division, which isn't exactly tied to either political party.


Slight disagree.

He's cost them a ton of money via sanctions, travel restrictions.
Biden and the Democrats are easier to deal with (as are most elected Republicans).
They are the new Cold War.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 24, 2020)

A Texas A&M professor was charged with conspiracy, making false statements and wire fraud on allegations that he was secretly collaborating with the Chinese government while conducting research for NASA, the Department of Justice said Monday.

Texas A&M professor accused of secretly collaborating with China amid NASA work


----------



## Scarecrow (Aug 26, 2020)

Scott Morrison’s unveils new powers blocking deals between China and state governments

Only a matter of time really with the Victorian premier signing a memorandum of understanding for the Belt and Road Initiative at the end of 2018, completely ignoring the mandate of the federal government to set foreign policy. 

And recently an investigation into one of major universities uncovering their close ties to China.

Looking forward to the outrage from both the Vic Premier and China after the memorandum gets expunged.

Good times.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

Not sure how good the source is, but.  Supposedly the Indian Army is 4KMs inside China.

Indian Forces are now 4 KM inside China Occupied Aksai Chin - Kreately


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 1, 2020)

Everyone is inside everyone's "territory" over there.


----------



## CQB (Sep 2, 2020)

I had a bit of time so dug up some info on Aksai Chin.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 2, 2020)

Good read.


----------



## CQB (Sep 2, 2020)

It was genius to initial the agreement but not sign it.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 2, 2020)

Well this is going to escalate. 

Indian special forces soldier killed in skirmish with Chinese troops


----------



## AWP (Sep 2, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Everyone is inside everyone's "territory" over there.



There's an amzing "mom" joke in here, but I'll leave that untouched.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> There's an amzing "mom" joke in here, but I'll leave that untouched.



Like... Errmmm...

The last shrimp cocktail at the end of the night. Yeah.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Well this is going to escalate.
> 
> Indian special forces soldier killed in skirmish with Chinese troops


The real crazy thing about this is that the area in dispute is a mutually agreed upon firearms free zone.  So, his death, along with the 20 others from India reported a month or so ago and whatever casualties the PLA sustained, are the result of being bludgeoned to death with clubs (with nails attached), stones, fists, etc.  That's pretty nuts.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 8, 2020)

So, there was fighting today.  Matchetes and spears, but in full kit.

India-China face-off on September 7: Pictures emerge of Chinese soldiers with spears, machete


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 8, 2020)

Just a follow on to my previous post, this article describes how brutal these clashes are; up close and personal.  Two nuclear powers literally going at it with sticks and stones.

Indian soldiers unarmed and caught by surprise in China clash, families say



Spoiler: Reuters article quotes on deaths



One of the Indian soldiers had his throat slit with metal nails in the darkness, his father told Reuters, saying he had been told by a fellow soldier who was there.

Others fell to their deaths in the freezing waters of the Galwan river in the western Himalayas, relatives have learned from witnesses...

...Three of the dead men had their "arteries ruptured in the neck" and two sustained head injuries caused by "sharp or pointed objects", the death certificates seen by Reuters said.

There were visible marks on the neck and forehead, all five documents said.

"It was a free-for-all, they fought with whatever they could lay their hands on - rods, sticks, and even with their bare hands," said a government official in Delhi briefed on the clash.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 15, 2020)

It's going to be hard to get the Chinese out of our universities with the current government in power. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ch...search-waterloo-military-technology-1.5723846


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 19, 2020)

Privatization is part of why China's economy boomed.  But hey, Beijing want that money lol.

CCP announces plan to take control of China's private sector


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Privatization is part of why China's economy boomed.  But hey, Beijing want that money lol.
> 
> CCP announces plan to take control of China's private sector




Wow. That is really, really interesting to me. I thought China was trying to become more like us economically, but this seems like a step in the opposite direction.

At the same time, though, I'm wondering if what they're doing from a top-down, governmental approach is really so different than the thought policing going on inside corporate America right now.  I'll have to think about this a little further and see if I can articulate what I mean a little better.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 19, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Wow. That is really, really interesting to me. I thought China was trying to become more like us economically, but this seems like a step in the opposite direction.
> 
> At the same time, though, I'm wondering if what they're doing from a top-down, governmental approach is really so different than the thought policing going on inside corporate America right now.  I'll have to think about this a little further and see if I can articulate what I mean a little better.


Although they've opened their economy a lot with some privatization which has created bajillionaires out of some people, it's still an extremely closed system.  In a sense you're only getting rich if you're a relatively high ranking party official and the party itself as much as the government has a lot of control.  This smells more like returning to a command-esque economy because of all the people that have gotten rich and the government wants a higher take.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 19, 2020)

I wonder if that was a factor in this.   The current government is all about China, normally.

Canada drops free trade talks with China: The Globe and Mail | Taiwan News


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

Why not get banned from China?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307330241262759938


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 20, 2020)

Tbh the only thing that's related to this thread is that is happened in China so it's not even relevant. It's tacky and shitty behaviour regardless of where it happened.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Tbh the only thing that's related to this thread is that is happened in China so it's not even relevant. It's tacky and shitty behaviour regardless of where it happened.



It's more of a lighthearted post rather than serious.


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 20, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Wow. That is really, really interesting to me. I thought China was trying to become more like us economically, but this seems like a step in the opposite direction.
> 
> At the same time, though, I'm wondering if what they're doing from a top-down, governmental approach is really so different than the thought policing going on inside corporate America right now.  I'll have to think about this a little further and see if I can articulate what I mean a little better.



I was already of the opinion the CCP was heavily involved with their 'private' sector. Or at least maintained a rather heavy influence in their actions. My initial reaction to the article went right to supply chain management and the very real possibility that all electronics could become a major threat.


----------



## AWP (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Privatization is part of why China's economy boomed.  But hey, Beijing want that money lol.
> 
> CCP announces plan to take control of China's private sector



Hmm, doubling down on Communism after years of pseudo-Capitalism. I love what amounts to political officers/ commissars in companies now. The gov't already had a very heavy hand in some places, but they really doubled down. What's funny is they went to the now old model to increase productivity and profits, but are now using a successful model and returning to Mao era practices?

Bold strategy, Cotton.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 20, 2020)

*Deng era really just to be pedantic.


----------



## AWP (Sep 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> *Deng era really just to be pedantic.



Facts are facts. Thank you for the knowledge.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> Facts are facts. Thank you for the knowledge.



No worries.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 21, 2020)

I wish I saw arrests like this in Canada. 

NYPD Officer Arrested, Charged With Acting As Chinese Government Agent


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Geeze...can we quiet down in that side of the world?

China threatens to 'wipe out' Taiwan president with war | Taiwan News


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I wish I saw arrests like this in Canada.
> 
> NYPD Officer Arrested, Charged With Acting As Chinese Government Agent


The story says he's also a SSG in the Army Reserve.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I wish I saw arrests like this in Canada.
> 
> NYPD Officer Arrested, Charged With Acting As Chinese Government Agent


You mean like the RCMP intel guy? Or that navy guy? Two off the top of my head.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 21, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> You mean like the RCMP intel guy? Or that navy guy? Two off the top of my head.



Oh there's many more out there.  Especially in academia.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Sep 21, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> The story says he's also a SSG in the Army Reserve.



353rd CA Command according to the global.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Geeze...can we quiet down in that side of the world?
> 
> China threatens to 'wipe out' Taiwan president with war | Taiwan News


China is afraid. Between floods, locusts, and their kung flu diplomacy, they've been taking a beating. 

@digrar If you guys kept some of that excess barely on hand China is gonna 'need' it here soon. Make em pay up the nose if you guys do sell.


----------



## digrar (Sep 21, 2020)

They've just started to make noises about our Wheat now...


----------



## CQB (Sep 22, 2020)

It will continue, the big hit economically will be  if the PRC stops importing our coal & iron ore.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 22, 2020)

digrar said:


> They've just started to make noises about our Wheat now...


That's very odd... especially with the food insecurity they're facing. Their agricultural areas just took a beating due to flooding. I think China's trying to destabilize the market, to fuck over your farmers and ultimately AU, so they can get a cheaper price on the extra grain they're gonna need.
(China's playing chicken with y'all to save face and their pocketbook.)

Not sure if it helps, but I've also been reading some of their popular literature and the culture of how they approach business is abhorrent. Seriously, fuck them. If there's anywhere else China can get grain imports work out deals to block out the Chicoms. (Food prices around the world are spiking along with food shortages.)



CQB said:


> It will continue, the big hit economically will be if the PRC stops importing our coal & iron ore.


Can that coal and iron ore be used to build up Australia's civil and military infrastructure? Cause that coal and iron ore is likely feeding China's massive steel industry and their 'One Belt One Road' scheme.

On the other hand, Australia could try something akin to China's 'One Belt One Road' scheme. You guys have the raw materials and goodwill China needs to carry out their plan. Heck, you might turn the tables on China and box them in using a similar strategy. Though it might drive further Russia China cooperation.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 22, 2020)

Videos on China's food insecurity and their 'Clean Plate Club'.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Sep 22, 2020)

China forces 500,000 Tibetans into labour camps


TLDR read the link, it's bad enough, the story gets worse...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 22, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> China forces 500,000 Tibetans into labour camps
> 
> 
> TLDR read the link, it's bad enough, the story gets worse...


Meanwhile the rest of the world....


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 22, 2020)

China's only interest is China.  They will absolutely fuck anyone to get what they want; to get what they need?  Fuhgettaboutit....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 2, 2020)

Fired people for the Tom Cotton Op-Ed...but it's totes mcgotes cool to publish this Op-Ed praising China for it's takeover of Hong Kong.  ARE WE UPFUCKINGSIDE DOWN?

Opinion | Hong Kong Is China, Like It or Not



> HONG KONG — No amount of outcry, condemnation or sanctions over the Chinese government’s purported encroachment in Hong Kong’s affairs will alter the fact that Hong Kong is part of China and that its destiny is intertwined with the mainland’s.
> 
> Hong Kong has been rocked by a series of crises after the eruption of protests last year over a proposed bill (long since withdrawn) that would have allowed the extradition of some suspects in criminal cases to mainland China.
> 
> ...



(Might be a fit for the politics thread, dunno)


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 2, 2020)

@ThunderHorse that fits here.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fired people for the Tom Cotton Op-Ed...but it's totes mcgotes cool to publish this Op-Ed praising China for it's takeover of Hong Kong.  ARE WE UPFUCKINGSIDE DOWN?
> 
> Opinion | Hong Kong Is China, Like It or Not
> 
> ...



I thought at first this was written as a defeatist "Hong Kong can't stop China no matter how hard we try" type story, but then I saw Regina Ip wrote it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 2, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I thought at first this was written as a defeatist "Hong Kong can't stop China no matter how hard we try" type story, but then I saw Regina Ip wrote it.


It's very dogmatic propaganda for sure.  I understand it's an Opinion, but why in the world would the NYT be so far up China's ass to give them such a platform?


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 9, 2020)

Anyone still questioning China's motives?

Here’s What Could Happen If China Invaded Taiwan


A Chinese military training complex in Inner Mongolia, shown in this satellite image taken on Sept. 29, includes full-scale replicas of targets such as Taiwan’s Presidential Office Building.

Source: Satellite image 2020 Maxar Technologies


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Anyone still questioning China's motives?
> 
> Here’s What Could Happen If China Invaded Taiwan
> 
> ...



I know from reading that we've done similar things for practicing raiding POW compounds during Vietnam and other high risk ops, but they weren't usually built out in the open (at least not when satellites were overhead).

Almost like they want you to see it.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 9, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I know from reading that we've done similar things for practicing raiding POW compounds during Vietnam and other high risk ops, but they weren't usually built out in the open (at least not when satellites were overhead).
> 
> *Almost like they want you to see it.*



I recall reading a story about Reagan, how he wanted a subtle 'show' during the Cold War in the early 80s, so had a US sub pop up somewhere close to a Soviet fleet, then submerge and disappear.  I think sometimes 'hiding' those not-so-subtle messages in the open sends a HUGE message.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I recall reading a story about Reagan, how he wanted a subtle 'show' during the Cold War in the early 80s, so had a US sub pop up somewhere close to a Soviet fleet, then submerge and disappear.  I think sometimes 'hiding' those not-so-subtle messages in the open sends a HUGE message.


Or like when he sent a SR-71 over North Korea to do figure-8s with sonic booms over a meeting of communist officials, just to let them know that we knew they were there. 😁


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Or like when he sent a SR-71 over North Korea to do figure-8s with sonic booms over a meeting of communist officials, just to let them know that we knew they were there. 😁


I need a link on that one.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 9, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I need a link on that one.


Brian Shul is a former sled driver who's written some great books/stories about his experiences.  He mentions it in this video at about the 17:20 mark:


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Brian Shul is a former sled driver who's written some great books/stories about his experiences.  He mentions it in this video at about the 17:20 mark:



I have his book on PDF if anyone wants it...


----------



## racing_kitty (Oct 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I have his book on PDF if anyone wants it...


Yes, please!


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I have his book on PDF if anyone wants it...



I also would like having it love hearing about that plane.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 13, 2020)

Mark Cuban mansplaining his and the NBA's stance on China to Megyn Kelly.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315722370833887237


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Mark Cuban mansplaining his and the NBA's stance on China to Megyn Kelly.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315722370833887237


I disagree with the mansplain comment. I just don't see it. Mark has a point too. As shitty as the answer is, there's no action behind the response she's looking for. If the NBA condemns them, will Apple? Nike? They're just words.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 13, 2020)

It's all about money.  The NBA castigated a GM for having the balls to say he stands with the people of Hong Kong who are for democracy and not a communist dictatorship.  He clearly is beating around the bush because he only cares about the money in merch sales and broadcast rights the NBA gets from China.  You can say you prioritize domestic issues, but our domestic human rights issues can't even hold a candle to how bad China is.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I disagree with the mansplain comment. I just don't see it. Mark has a point too. As shitty as the answer is, there's no action behind the response she's looking for. If the NBA condemns them, will Apple? Nike? They're just words.


Mark is way off base. He said she doesn't know what she's talking about but he certainly doesn't either or is just unwilling to be truthful about it.  His "solution" was to allow more asylum seekers here.  That's ridiculous and we don't have the resources to accommodate that many people.  Change must occur in China but he doesn't want to risk losing that customer.  It's that simple.


----------



## AWP (Oct 13, 2020)

Money and influence can make one's moral compass look like Flight 19's over the Bahamas...


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> Money and influence can make one's moral compass look like Flight 19's over the Bahamas...


Was someone else watching NatGeo's show on the Bermuda Triangle last nigjt?! 🤣


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Mark is way off base. He said she doesn't know what she's talking about but he certainly doesn't either or is just unwilling to be truthful about it.  His "solution" was to allow more asylum seekers here.  That's ridiculous and we don't have the resources to accommodate that many people.  Change must occur in China but he doesn't want to risk losing that customer.  It's that simple.


To be fair, I didn't say I agreed with all of his points, just the one I addressed. I accept the fact this world revolves around money. Thats why I don't get upset when fox tries to push that narrative when the government needs to lead the way. Want the government to acknowledge those human rights abuses? They can't, because you can't do business with countries that commit genocide.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 28, 2020)

Fuck the CCP. 

China slams US as senators accuse Beijing of genocide against Xinjiang Muslim minority | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I know from reading that we've done similar things for practicing raiding POW compounds during Vietnam and other high risk ops, but they weren't usually built out in the open (at least not when satellites were overhead).
> 
> Almost like they want you to see it.



That's exactly what I was thinking.  This is strategic messaging as much as it is tactical training.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 28, 2020)

We have satellites over their shit, they have satellites over our shit.  We build purposeful cities and compounds, rather large ones to train in.  But I don't think ours are so "open" and ours are on already established bases.  They have so much land that they can just in the middle of bumfuck and throw up a city.  But they've done this in several places where real estate gets built and no one lives in the city...mostly to keep people working.  That's a command economy for you.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 8, 2020)

Can't make this up...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325549919286009858


----------



## CQB (Nov 8, 2020)

The trick that democracy plays is that the elected official has to govern for all, even those that didn’t vote for them. All democratically elected heads of state say the same thing, “we govern for all” & there’s no exception that I can think of to this rule. So thanks PE Biden, but it’s nothing new. I’m more interested now in the makeup of his team & what will happen in Georgia soon.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Can't make this up...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325549919286009858


A request to you and other members who post giant walls of text or screen shots of the same, but then only comment with “unbelievable” or somesuch thing.

You’ve spent however much time digesting this information, at least give us a Readers Digest version of what you are commenting on.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> A request to you and other members who post giant walls of text or screen shots of the same, but then only comment with “unbelievable” or somesuch thing.
> 
> You’ve spent however much time digesting this information, at least give us a Readers Digest version of what you are commenting on.


I think 'unbelievable' is pretty fitting. Lets not forget the PRC is literally cutting organs outta people, running concentration camps, and committing genocide. All the while, they have the audacity to post the drivel below. 

The UN is a joke and the PRC is straight up evil. The fact they plan on presenting this at the UN's review of our human right record is clownshoes.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> A request to you and other members who post giant walls of text or screen shots of the same, but then only comment with “unbelievable” or somesuch thing.
> 
> You’ve spent however much time digesting this information, at least give us a Readers Digest version of what you are commenting on.


Specifically on this one. The guy's tweet sums up what the screen shot is. The Chinese government sits on the UN Human Rights Council and leveling questions about the US government's actions to remove "systemic racism"...you know a country that is overtly putting people in concentration camps trying to take the moral high ground.

And as we know, most countries that end up on the UN HRC tend to be the worst government's in the world when it comes to Human Rights.


----------



## CQB (Nov 9, 2020)

There’s sound rebuttals on all five points. It’s provocative, but it’s a tactic to get the barbarians to fight amongst themselves, which has served China well over the centuries. Ignore it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

Unraveling the Chinese spy network is gonna take forever.  But with a Biden presidency I'm not sure if we'll be as active.

University Researcher Pleads Guilty to Lying on Grant Applications to Develop Scientific Expertise for China


----------



## CQB (Nov 12, 2020)

Still a few shots left in the locker

Trump bans investments in companies that White House says aid China's military


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 25, 2020)

Another one bites the dust...

Former Arizona Raytheon engineer faces prison after 'exporting' sensitive missile technology to China

Defense companies should probably stop hiring anyone with Chinese citizenship, ya think?


----------



## AWP (Nov 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Another one bites the dust...
> 
> Former Arizona Raytheon engineer faces prison after 'exporting' sensitive missile technology to China
> 
> Defense companies should probably stop hiring anyone with Chinese citizenship, ya think?



Racist.

(Sarcasm-ish given the current times)


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Another one bites the dust...
> 
> Former Arizona Raytheon engineer faces prison after 'exporting' sensitive missile technology to China
> 
> Defense companies should probably stop hiring anyone with Chinese citizenship, ya think?


It's tricky, for sure.  In addition to the hyper-woke conditioning that pressures companies to become more "diverse," there are probably a very limited number of people who have the skills these company needs.  And unfortunately a lot of them are apparently Chinese citizens.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 25, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> It's tricky, for sure.  In addition to the hyper-woke conditioning that pressures companies to become more "diverse," there are probably a very limited number of people who have the skills these company needs.  And unfortunately a lot of them are apparently Chinese citizens.



I don't know, I know a white dude designing missiles for Grumman, he's also a distiller for a craft distillery.  He's definitely weird.

Tom Mueller didn't go to any fancy schools because he was white and from Idaho, but Elon Musk found him and he was the first engineer hired at SpaceX. US Universities choose to educate foreign nationals over Americans, US Companies choose to use H1-Bs instead of employing Americans. This is just general commentary and not specific but it has strategic influence on our country.


----------



## Dame (Nov 25, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> It's tricky, for sure.  In addition to the hyper-woke conditioning that pressures companies to become more "diverse," there are probably a very limited number of people who have the skills these company needs.  And unfortunately a lot of them are apparently Chinese citizens.


The Chinese play the long game. They specifically educate their folks to fill these slots. I don't believe it is a situation born of serendipitous circumstance. As for the folks who qualify for the job in this country, most of them won't take the contractor jobs. Those jobs pay less than the big names in tech cuz government contracts go to the lowest bidder.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 25, 2020)

During the cold war, Chinese immigrants wouldn't get a clearance.
Maybe those rules are needed again.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 1, 2020)

In addition to putting a space craft on the moon today, the Chinese apparently are also having success with this:
Chinese team test jet engine ‘able to reach anywhere on Earth within 2 hours’ | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)

Meanwhile, in the U.S. we're solving important issues like allowing adding a non-binary gender option for collection of student data.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In addition to putting a space craft on the moon today, the Chinese apparently are also having success with this:
> Chinese team test jet engine ‘able to reach anywhere on Earth within 2 hours’ | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)
> 
> Meanwhile, in the U.S. we're solving important issues like allowing adding a non-binary gender option for collection of student data.


What sort of dastardly group wouldn't prioritize gender, critical race theory, and third wave feminism, over defense... oh wait. 

As time goes on I laugh at the absurdity of the situation we've placed ourselves in. We let trash pandas into the chicken coop and are wondering why the chickens are all dead and ain't laying eggs.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 1, 2020)

Well, step one would be to stop student visas from China.....they are stealing university proprietary technology left and right.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In addition to putting a space craft on the moon today, the Chinese apparently are also having success with this:
> Chinese team test jet engine ‘able to reach anywhere on Earth within 2 hours’ | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)
> 
> Meanwhile, in the U.S. we're solving important issues like allowing adding a non-binary gender option for collection of student data.


Well...like many nations in the past, we will destroy ourselves from within while the world continues moving forward.


----------



## CQB (Dec 2, 2020)

The twitter splatter from the deputy director-general of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Zhao Lijian, has had an interesting effect. As they continually resort to 'tremble & obey' threats to Australia, projecting the awesome majesty of the Middle Kingdom, there is a notion to have an expanded G7, which will add three more players, Australia, India & South Korea, to act as an economic counterweight to the PRC & to be known as the Democracy 10 or D-10. This is counter to their age old tactic of keeping the barbarians divided so that they will attack each other. Looks like fun times ahead.


----------



## CQB (Dec 2, 2020)

SCOMO scuttled; the Chinese diaspora is monitored by the CCP & fed a diet of their propaganda, I guess this wasn't a good fit. 

WeChat censors Scott Morrison's post directed at Chinese community


----------



## Gunz (Dec 2, 2020)

Deport all of them except Yuja Wang who’s freaking hot.


----------



## CQB (Dec 2, 2020)

Gunz said:


> Deport all of them except Yuja Wang who’s freaking hot.


Man...can her skirts get any shorter?


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 2, 2020)

CQB said:


> Man...can her skirts get any shorter?



I had to look her up...you weren't joking. And, I don't think they can and still be called skirts.


----------



## CQB (Dec 2, 2020)

I'd call them long T-shirts, nice pins too.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 2, 2020)

Gunz said:


> Deport all of them except Yuja Wang who’s freaking hot.



I see you enjoy pianists. . .






The hand speed is ridic


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 2, 2020)

Not bad for a spy.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 2, 2020)

Yes, foreign intelligence officers usually have damn good covers, well....the good ones do  

My fav so far....

*

Honey Pot?  Yes Please*


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 2, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Yes, foreign intelligence officers usually have damn good covers, well....the good ones do
> 
> My fav so far....
> 
> ...


You got hot Russians where? Fine, if someone has to go, I guess I'll take one for the team. For God and country...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 2, 2020)

We should kill off Chinese student visas, but I'm guessing there will be some trashing state attorney general to sue the executive branch and some trashy judge to rule in their favor.


----------



## Brill (Dec 2, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> You got hot Russians where? Fine, if someone has to go, I guess I'll take one for the team. For God and country...


Russians are like Visa.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 2, 2020)

lindy said:


> Russians are like Visa.
> 
> View attachment 37240


Resisting my inner 13yo impulses to start making "Her vagina is like Afghanistan...", "Her vagina is like Iraq...", etc... jokes.


----------



## AWP (Dec 2, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Resisting my inner 13yo impulses to start making "Her vagina is like Afghanistan...", "Her vagina is like Iraq...", etc... jokes.



Barren, poor hygiene, and with Americans rotating in and out?


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> Barren, poor hygiene, and with Americans rotating in and out?


Yeah...you understand. 😁

But now you've got me started...

The Afghanistan v. (or your favorite alternate word); a lot harder to conquer than anticipated (aka as the Vietnam v.)

Or the 9/11 v.;  the Saudi's paid for it

Or the Russia v.; the libs can't stop talking about it

Or the Iran Contra v.; needs to be covered up

OK...I'll stop now.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 3, 2020)

She's like Afghanistan. Worth dropping a load (of bombs) on, but in the end not worth a serious investment.

Like AFG, getting in ain't that hard, but you need to keep your exit strategy on the low low


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 3, 2020)

All about that 2020 pull out.


----------



## Scarecrow (Dec 3, 2020)

China’s jibe at NZ PM Jacinda Ardern for backing Australia

NZ in their sights now as well for backing Australia and accusing them of being “bleating sheep” 🙄

Well, the sheep do bleat there that’s for sure, but in a different way and for good reason.  

But seriously though, it has been good to see friendly countries leaders in the UK, US, Canada and NZ speak out and show their support in the past few days. Our relationship with them is only going to get worse in the interim.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 3, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> China’s jibe at NZ PM Jacinda Ardern for backing Australia
> 
> NZ in their sights now as well for backing Australia and accusing them of being “bleating sheep” 🙄
> 
> ...



I mean, if you look at the way things had been going, NZ had been cozying up with China and from the outside putting their Five-Eyes status into question. 

New Zealand's Five Eyes membership called into question over 'China links'

And somehow the Herald writes that NZ is in the perfect position to broker "peace" between the alliance and China. How hard is it to take a stand against such a trashy regime?

Why New Zealand is perfectly placed to broker a truce between China and the Five Eyes alliance - NZ Herald


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 3, 2020)

Thanks. The SIS have a job for you after you've finished up at the Ministry of Health. 

On a serious note, there's a lot more in play than the two articles you've read and made a definitive conclusion about. I mean we can play a tit for tat game of who's damaged 5Eyes by way of their sloppy security if you'd like but I suspect you wouldn't like the outcome very much.


----------



## CQB (Dec 9, 2020)

Yesterday _Australia’s Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) Bill 2020 _was made an Act. This new law can cancel retrospectively any foreign investment. 

Australia's new foreign relations laws have just passed — which agreements are on the chopping block? 

Australia’s Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) Bill 2020


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 11, 2020)

Was this discussed?  I can't find it. 

Top Chinese professor boasts of operatives in top of US ‘core inner circle’


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Was this discussed?  I can't find it.
> 
> Top Chinese professor boasts of operatives in top of US ‘core inner circle’


Don't believe so, but I was watching the Tim Pool episode with his former boss that now I guess works for him running SCNR and talk about all kinds of crazy shit but saying that the number of ChiCom spies embedded throughout the various state and federal agencies in the tens of thousands.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 13, 2020)

More on my previous post, look's like "The List" of CCP member's, including around the world, has leaked.  I really want to search that list... 

Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party  | Sky News Australia


----------



## Jaknight (Dec 13, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> More on my previous post, look's like "The List" of CCP member's, including around the world, has leaked.  I really want to search that list...
> 
> Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party  | Sky News Australia


Gitlab Shanghai CCP


----------



## CQB (Dec 13, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> More on my previous post, look's like "The List" of CCP member's, including around the world, has leaked.  I really want to search that list...
> 
> Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party  | Sky News Australia


For the Party to operate anywhere, it takes three members to form a quorum. With this in mind, some just join the party as it assists their careers.

...and in other news, the tariffs put on Australian products; barley, lobsters, coal & beef have been offset in a remarkable rise in the iron ore price to a seven year high of $US160 per tonne. Iron ore is a great export earner to China for us & the bottom line is that whilst money has been lost on the above products, the nation has actually gained.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> More on my previous post, look's like "The List" of CCP member's, including around the world, has leaked.  I really want to search that list...
> 
> Major leak 'exposes' members and 'lifts the lid' on the Chinese Communist Party  | Sky News Australia


That is fucking amazing! I can't wait for the list to go public!  

Looks like we'll finally see how far the CCP has infiltrated into our society.



CQB said:


> For the Party to operate anywhere, it takes three members to form a quorum. With this in mind, some just join the party as it assists their careers.
> 
> ...and in other news, the tariffs put on Australian products; barley, lobsters, coal & beef have been offset in a remarkable rise in the iron ore price to a seven year high of $US160 per tonne. Iron ore is a great export earner to China for us & the bottom line is that whilst money has been lost on the above products, the nation has actually gained.


That's pretty interesting. However, I'm thinking the outsiders who've joined the Chinese Communist Party and the party members operating on foreign soil are enemies. Career choices aside they decided to either betray their home countries or destroy the nations that welcomed them. 

Enemies within, enemies without.


----------



## CQB (Dec 14, 2020)

Well yes, that’s a Braille read right there.


----------



## Dame (Dec 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That is fucking amazing! I can't wait for the list to go public!
> 
> Looks like we'll finally see how far the CCP has infiltrated into our society.
> 
> ...


I want to see this too. Will they release it to the general public?


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

Dame said:


> I want to see this too. Will they release it to the general public?


It’s embedded in this story (I didn’t click on it).

List of CCP Members Embedded Within Multinational Organizations is Released - The Last Refuge


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 14, 2020)

So this is interesting 

Apple TV was making a show about Gawker. Then Tim Cook found out.

Interesting lines in this piece that was originally published in NYT:



> So far, Apple TV+ is the only streaming studio to bluntly explain its corporate red lines to creators — though Disney, with its giant theme park business in China, shares Apple’s allergy to antagonizing China’s leader, Xi Jinping.
> 
> Eddy Cue, Apple’s senior vice president for internet software and services, who has been at the company since 1989, has told partners that “the two things we will never do are hard-core nudity and China,” one creative figure who has worked with Apple told me. (BuzzFeed News first reported last year that Cue had instructed creators to “avoid portraying China in a poor light.”)


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

It's a big market no surprises there. China has a foreign film quota too. It's pretty shit by our standards but makes business sense.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's a big market no surprises there. China has a foreign film quota too. It's pretty shit by our standards but makes business sense.



I'm relatively unsurprised.  Especially since 90% of Apples hardware is built in Chinese factories.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 14, 2020)

CQB said:


> Well yes, that’s a Braille read right there.


By the way, I heard China was trying to kill the Australian wine industry.



Dame said:


> I want to see this too. Will they release it to the general public?


Dude! I feel like crosschecking the list with some of the people I've run into would make for a very interesting and illuminating time!



lindy said:


> It’s embedded in this story (I didn’t click on it).
> 
> List of CCP Members Embedded Within Multinational Organizations is Released - The Last Refuge


It's gone.


Anyone know where else the list has been released?


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 14, 2020)

CQB said:


> For the Party to operate anywhere, it takes three members to form a quorum. With this in mind, some just join the party as it assists their careers.
> 
> ...and in other news, the tariffs put on Australian products; barley, lobsters, coal & beef have been offset in a remarkable rise in the iron ore price to a seven year high of $US160 per tonne. Iron ore is a great export earner to China for us & the bottom line is that whilst money has been lost on the above products, the nation has actually gained.


They still swear allegiance to the Party.
As an aside, your argument was used by some in the aftermath of WW II, don't think it worked well then.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 14, 2020)

Noticed that all the websites hosting the CCP's membership are trying to memory hole it. Fuck...


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Noticed that all the websites hosting the CCP's membership are trying to memory hole it. Fuck...


Ancient Chinese secret.






In 2020, the commercial is considered racist AF.


----------



## Dame (Dec 14, 2020)

Got it.


----------



## digrar (Dec 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> By the way, I heard China was trying to kill the Australian wine industry.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

Drink it because noone else will! 

Because it's shit!


----------



## CQB (Dec 14, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> They still swear allegiance to the Party.
> As an aside, your argument was used by some in the aftermath of WW II, don't think it worked well then.


Yes, understood & that connection can be called upon at any time.

...aaand in other news, "China vewy upset, pweez expwain why iron ore now so pwicey?


----------



## digrar (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Drink it because noone else will!
> 
> Because it's shit!


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

How fucking dare you.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 14, 2020)

I have no idea what just happened.


----------



## CQB (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> How fucking dare you.


Steady dude...s'all good.


----------



## CQB (Dec 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I have no idea what just happened.


It's an Anzac thing & depending on which side of the ditch you sit...


----------



## digrar (Dec 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I have no idea what just happened.



Just a reminder of a solid dude playing within the rules and some cretinous Kiwis chucking a tanty when things don't go their way. 



Underarm bowling incident of 1981 - Wikipedia


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

CQB said:


> Steady dude...s'all good.



I can never forgive this.


----------



## digrar (Dec 14, 2020)

This is what happens when you pick the Beijing beef and black bean over a nice Margaret River chardonnay.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

We all know what's going on and the ICC is like: naw we good. 

ICC rejects call to investigate China over Uighur genocide claims, for now


----------



## Jaknight (Dec 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> We all know what's going on and the ICC is like: naw we good.
> 
> ICC rejects call to investigate China over Uighur genocide claims, for now


As long as that sweet sweet Commie money keeps flowing in the rejections will continue


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 15, 2020)

China isn't a signatory and neither at the moment is the US soooooooo...


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 15, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> China isn't a signatory and neither at the moment is the US soooooooo...



Doesn't mean money isn't flowing.....


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 15, 2020)

Actually? China has better places to bribe than an institution they've never recognised.


----------



## DA SWO (Dec 15, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> China isn't a signatory and neither at the moment is the US soooooooo...


How about Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo?  They sign?


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 15, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> How about Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo?  They sign?



Fair question. They did.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> China isn't a signatory and neither at the moment is the US soooooooo...


Israel isn't a signatory either, yet they investigated Israel.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 15, 2020)

Fair point.


----------



## CQB (Dec 16, 2020)

So the PRC has decided our coal, the best quality anywhere is now not good & so has refused to unload 14 million tonnes sitting on boats in Chinese ports. But this has had an interesting outcome, for while the PRC complains that we are manipulating the iron ore price, it’s really their own fault as the price per tonne continues to rise as it’s simple supply & demand. So whilst the PRC complains, all the big iron ore producers here, BHP, Fortescu, Roy Hill & even the smaller ones like Fenix can’t get it on ships fast enough. The PRC knows that every tonne  mined is heading for a ship. So the Chinese decision to ban coking coal from its steel mills, has increased prices but also distorted the market & also affects Chinese steel mills as coking coal helps soak up impurities in iron ore. When metallurgical prices are high, steel mills shift to a higher grade & therefore more expensive iron ore, to minimise the use of coking coal. So ergo, when coking coal is cheap, they can buy more iron ore. But the bans on coking coal have pushed up the price for the steel makers of the PRC to above $US200 per tonne. To add to the fun there are also market shortages...So the Chinese steel mills have to wear the rising cost along with the steel manufacturers. All they have to do is let the coal onshore as a solution, but well, I hope those ships leaving Oz with iron ore fill to the gunwales as I don’t think the PRC will back down. China vewy upset, pwice vewy high. Lordy Lordy me.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 16, 2020)

CQB said:


> So the PRC has decided our coal, the best quality anywhere is now not good & so has refused to unload 14 million tonnes sitting on boats in Chinese ports. But this has had an interesting outcome, for while the PRC complains that we are manipulating the iron ore price, it’s really their own fault as the price per tonne continues to rise as it’s simple supply & demand. So whilst the PRC complains, all the big iron ore producers here, BHP, Fortescu, Roy Hill & even the smaller ones like Fenix can’t get it on ships fast enough. The PRC knows that every tonne  mined is heading for a ship. So the Chinese decision to ban coking coal from its steel mills, has increased prices but also distorted the market & also affects Chinese steel mills as coking coal helps soak up impurities in iron ore. When metallurgical prices are high, steel mills shift to a higher grade & therefore more expensive iron ore, to minimise the use of coking coal. So ergo, when coking coal is cheap, they can buy more iron ore. But the bans on coking coal have pushed up the price for the steel makers of the PRC to above $US200 per tonne. To add to the fun there are also market shortages...So the Chinese steel mills have to wear the rising cost along with the steel manufacturers. All they have to do is let the coal onshore as a solution, but well, I hope those ships leaving Oz with iron ore fill to the gunwales as I don’t think the PRC will back down. China vewy upset, pwice vewy high. Lordy Lordy me.


Seeing that China's Belt and Road scheme revolves around infrastructure projects that require large amounts of steel, these price increases may be a godsend. I feel a worldwide crackdown on CCP conglomerates and personnel should be the next step to slowing their expansion.

As an aside, it's interesting seeing how China's dominance of the US consumer market has enabled them to acquire the resources needed to fuel their expansion. Other than having a large workforce and manufacturing base China really has nothing going for it. Without outside innovation and resources China should fracture.


----------



## CQB (Dec 17, 2020)

There are other signs that aren't encouraging. Currently there is seven people for every elderly Chinese, by 2050, the ration will be two to one. They may get old before they get rich.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 17, 2020)

CQB said:


> There are other signs that aren't encouraging. Currently there is seven people for every elderly Chinese, by 2050, the ration will be two to one. They may get old before they get rich.


That's probably why they're pushing to expand so rapidly. With their population a ticking time bomb, coupled with a lack of resources, I expect them to grow even bolder as they near peak age. At this point, I'm assuming the CCP has always intended to expend a large portion of it's population; in order to gain territory and resources.

Like a cornered animal, nursing the last of it's strength, the CCP is dangerous foe. Given their level of infiltration in govt, tech, and academia, I fear they've laid the groundwork for something terrible.


----------



## CQB (Dec 17, 2020)

That would be a worse case scenario. In news just to hand, the refusal to take our thermal & coking coal as discussed, has led to electricity shortages & rationing in Zhejiang, Hunan, Shaanxi, Jiangxi & Inner Mongolia. Considering they put a lot of effort into maintaining civil stability, this looks like the government there may have to deal with a problem of their own making.


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## R.Caerbannog (Dec 18, 2020)

CQB said:


> That would be a worse case scenario. In news just to hand, the refusal to take our thermal & coking coal as discussed, has led to electricity shortages & rationing in Zhejiang, Hunan, Shaanxi, Jiangxi & Inner Mongolia. Considering they put a lot of effort into maintaining civil stability, this looks like the government there may have to deal with a problem of their own making.


That is worrisome. Any word on how much Aussie coal and iron ore China has stockpiled? If they're funneling/rationing energy out of the periphery provinces, in the dead of winter, something is going on.


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## CQB (Dec 18, 2020)

There’re not stockpiling iron ore, they’re using it in manufacturing appliances etc. & the coal isn’t being offloaded to be used, it’s just sitting on ships offshore. The potential risk is that the natives will get restless as they slowly freeze due to the lack of coal for their power stations in the provinces mentioned above. As discussed, Chine prides itself on civil harmony, but this may change as the northern winter bites.


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## SpitfireV (Dec 18, 2020)

Certain generations of Chinese are used to hardship so I doubt there will be much if any civil unrest from it. It would affect rural areas more than anything and the farmers already have a bit of a shit life. Older people will tell them to shut up and get on with it but the younger people won't be happy I'd imagine.


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## CQB (Dec 19, 2020)

That’s a pretty interesting perspective Spitty, I’d add that the CCP has endured worse circumstances since 1949 & it’s still at the apex.


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## R.Caerbannog (Dec 19, 2020)

CQB said:


> There’re not stockpiling iron ore, they’re using it in manufacturing appliances etc. & the coal isn’t being offloaded to be used, it’s just sitting on ships offshore. The potential risk is that the natives will get restless as they slowly freeze due to the lack of coal for their power stations in the provinces mentioned above. As discussed, Chine prides itself on civil harmony, but this may change as the northern winter bites.


Reason I mentioned stockpiles, was I had heard that China kept a strategic supply of goods like pork, sugar, ect. The ships full of coal and ore, off China's shores, reminded me of Stalin sending trainloads of materials to the Germans up-to and during Operation Barbarossa.

In my mind, I'm seeing those loaded ships as possible stockpiles that the CCP can seize if things go south. That and the the way energy is being rationed makes me think that China is up to no good. 

Given China's level of foreign infiltration, the danger to me is that the CCP thinks they've bought the US presidency. Which in China's eyes would give them leeway to do what they want with in y'alls neighborhood.


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## CQB (Dec 19, 2020)

I’d disagree with the coal onboard as a stockpile. There’s a trade dispute with us at the moment & coal is part of it. The PRC won’t relent on this part of the dispute & they’re all owning coal from everywhere else. As we’re a middle power & they see themselves as the top of the tree, they won’t budge on this. We should kowtow, tremble & obey to the might of the Central Nation.


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## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

The food stockpiles thing I don't know how much stock (lol) can be put into that either. The pork is certainly possible to store a long time- look up 腊肉 it's a cured pork belly that will last a long time. Also, delicious and my favourite Chinese meat. 

Anyway, while the pork could conceivably be stored in case of emergency I don't see them being able to store enough for more than a day or two for one city. Which leads me to the other staple, rice. I say rice but I have rice and flour in mind when I'm thinking about this. The sheer space needed to store that much rice or flour would be immense and I think there would also have been strong rumours of what the massive as hell government shed would be for. There have also been rice shortages in the past as farmers can't keep to demand with one reason being urban migration. I doubt the CCP would have been able to siphon off rice (I'm not sure how much flour is produced in China) to that large extent. 

That said it makes sense for the central government to have food stockpiles in Beijing. That's SOP anywhere but I wouldn't expect them to dish these out to the provinces since that's not really how the CCP is set up.


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## R.Caerbannog (Dec 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’d disagree with the coal onboard as a stockpile. There’s a trade dispute with us at the moment & coal is part of it. The PRC won’t relent on this part of the dispute & they’re all owning coal from everywhere else. As we’re a middle power & they see themselves as the top of the tree, they won’t budge on this. We should kowtow, tremble & obey to the might of the Central Nation.


I get what you're saying brother, but I really think this trade war regarding ore and coal is a small part of a broader play. For the past 10 years China has been steadily stockpiling grains, natural resources, and Western politicians. Given recent events in the United States, this may China's best chance to exert it's will over AUS and their surrounding areas.

Right now I'm seeing three possible outcomes, two of which will be disastrous and the third may only buy your nation time against encroachment.

1st Guess: The people behind the US electoral coup, run by Chicom sympathetics and globalists, gain control of power. China starts taking chunks outta AUS and the surrounding area through politics, trade, or defense. Think death by a thousand cuts, while the US deals with internal power struggles.

2nd Guess: Civil war breaks out in the US. Depending on it's length and violence our forces may not be able to project force or force will be projected inward. For you guys it may mean fighting alone and then figuring where you stand with the victor.

3rd Guess: Coup is averted in the US, followed by a purge/exile of CCP sympathizers. You guys won't be alone in facing China, but you'll still have to contend with a generation of "demoralized" citizens, CCP infiltrators, and the Wests Chicom outcasts. Barring a complete economic collapse, China consolidates it's forces. They can either turn northwards or continue plying soft power.


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## CQB (Dec 20, 2020)

The pushback has started here & we’ve cancelled visas etc. which has occurred in the US as well. I don’t think it’s as bleak as you make it, it will be a continuation of the Sun Tzu principal of combative coexistence.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 20, 2020)

I hope so too, but I'm skeptical the CCP is going to let their population age gracefully or let go of their territorial ambitions.


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## RackMaster (Dec 20, 2020)

China would still be getting a lot of imports from Canada.  They are our second largest trading partner and we have a sympathetic moron in charge. 

China produces a lot of wheat, enough to start shipping to Canada and we don't need it.


https://www.producer.com/news/china-ships-flour-to-canada/


----------



## CQB (Dec 20, 2020)

I think you’re coal exports have just increased.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> I think you’re coal exports have just increased.



Your**


----------



## CQB (Dec 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Your**


That’s a bit sketchy mate, can you elaborate?


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> I think you’re coal exports have just increased.



Exactly that.  Since Trudeau has land locked and fucked over the oil sands, Alberta is expanding coal.   Vancouver hates the idea of bitumen being exported through their port but they're cool with coal going to China.

As oil prices languish, Alberta sees its future in a 'coal rush'

Canada's Teck sees higher China met coal sales as Australia hit by import curbs | S&P Global Platts


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> That’s a bit sketchy mate, can you elaborate?




You should have used "your" not "you're" in that context. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding your intent.


----------



## CQB (Dec 20, 2020)

Oh ok, as being a grammar Nazism is my bag as well. I will concede the own goal. ✌️


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 20, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> China would still be getting a lot of imports from Canada.  They are our second largest trading partner and we have a sympathetic moron in charge.
> 
> China produces a lot of wheat, enough to start shipping to Canada and we don't need it.
> 
> ...


That is terrifying. Not cause China is exporting wheat, but because of how notoriously tainted Chinese food products are. Article mentioned that they were export small amounts of wheat for Mainlanders in Canada. Any word if they're doing larger exports for non?



RackMaster said:


> Exactly that.  Since Trudeau has land locked and fucked over the oil sands, Alberta is expanding coal.   Vancouver hates the idea of bitumen being exported through their port but they're cool with coal going to China.
> 
> As oil prices languish, Alberta sees its future in a 'coal rush'
> 
> Canada's Teck sees higher China met coal sales as Australia hit by import curbs | S&P Global Platts


That sucks dude. It's almost like Trudeau wants to cripple out your energy sector. Not to sound paranoid... but could crashing Canada's oil sands, while pivoting to Chicom centered coal export, lead to a fire sale of oil sands assets?

Cause I'm thinking Trudeau and the coastal libs may be trying to screw over inner Canada. All while sucking on the teat of the Chicoms.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 20, 2020)




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## amlove21 (Dec 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That is terrifying. Not cause China is exporting wheat, but because of how notoriously tainted Chinese food products are. Article mentioned that they were export small amounts of wheat for Mainlanders in Canada. Any word if they're doing larger exports for non?
> 
> 
> That sucks dude. It's almost like Trudeau wants to cripple out your energy sector. Not to sound paranoid... but could crashing Canada's oil sands, while pivoting to Chicom centered coal export, lead to a fire sale of oil sands assets?
> ...


This. This is your magnum opus. I just... it’s perfect.


----------



## AWP (Dec 21, 2020)

One could make the argument that the greatest threat to North America is...Canada.


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## RackMaster (Dec 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> One could make the argument that the greatest threat to North America is...Canada.



Shhhhh... It's actually Mexico, don't you remember Mexico?


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## GOTWA (Dec 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Shhhhh... It's actually Mexico, don't you remember Mexico?


I was trying to come up with something witty about never banging a Canadian. Then I remembered that one time I was in Spain, of all places.


----------



## AWP (Dec 21, 2020)

If I can wake up thanks to the time change, I'll post why the Chinese on the N. American continent is stupid idea, aka SIGINT Matters, aka RF has a finite range/ distance..


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Shhhhh... It's actually Mexico, don't you remember Mexico?


The CCP has a pretty large footprint in funneling arms and fentanyl to the cartels. Not to mention Mainland Chinese corporations staking out business claims and buying politicians in Mexico. Ed Calderon has some interesting information on the prevalence of Chicom made arms in Mexico.



AWP said:


> If I can wake up thanks to the time change, I'll post why the Chinese on the N. American continent is stupid idea, aka SIGINT Matters, aka RF has a finite range/ distance..


They're already here and they operate in plain sight. Go to any large college or university for a small example of this. Heck... that leaked list, of +2 million CCP members, has shown how far they've infiltrated every facet of our private and governmental organizations.

SIGINT matters when your enemy is being targeted, not when your enemy has been welcomed in with open arms.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 21, 2020)

All the reporting I've seen has shown raw chemicals coming from the chemical factories themselves for production in Mexico by the cartels. Please provide an authorative source and please don't tell me to go research it myself or- fair warning - you're likely to get a rude response. 

Re the arms coming directly from the CCP again please provide the same. Just because there is a large amount of a particular country's firearms in a region doesnt necessarily point to organised supply. There are a lot of US firearms in Mexico too I understand and I've seen German ones too but there is no suggestion those governments are supplying.


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## RackMaster (Dec 21, 2020)

DEA links fentanyl to China.

The China Connection: How One D.E.A. Agent Cracked a Global Fentanyl Ring (Published 2019)


And in Canada from China. 

Canada needs to ‘hold China accountable’ for flow of fentanyl: Scheer - National | Globalnews.ca


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## SpitfireV (Dec 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> DEA links fentanyl to China.
> 
> The China Connection: How One D.E.A. Agent Cracked a Global Fentanyl Ring (Published 2019)
> 
> ...



That first one is a great article but it doesn't show or even imply any kind of CCP involvement. It also backed up what I said about the chemical companies with the exception of finished product leaving China vis a vis raw material.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 21, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> That first one is a great article but it doesn't show or even imply any kind of CCP involvement. It also backed up what I said about the chemical companies with the exception of finished product leaving China vis a vis raw material.



Oh I doubt it's a CCP sanctioned smuggling ring.  But it's definitely coming here from there.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 21, 2020)

China is still very much a command economy. Nothing really happens without the party's say so, especially the manufacture and shipment of pharmaceutical grade chemicals like fentanyl.

Graphic below is a pretty good representation of the CCP and why they do the shit they do.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 21, 2020)

That's not a response and it's also not entirely true because it's a nixed economy. Please give me some evidence to support your assertions.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Graphic below is a pretty good representation of the CCP and why they do the shit they do.
> View attachment 37584


Posting arguably racist memes is how you are responding now?


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Posting arguably racist memes is how you are responding now?


Now now now. I’m sure @R.Caerbannog has a perfectly good explanation for his borderline generalization of a pronunciation of a word that would be, categorically, considered a slight against Asians. In a thread about China.

A country he has generalized for months as hating.

I’m willing to wait on the explanation. For now, my evil rabbit friend- here’s a point. You’re over the line.

Can’t wait to see if we need to go further as you explain your meaning!

ETA- I will go with "Gee, guys. That was a typo! And it happened to be the ONE LETTER Asians can't pronounce."


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## racing_kitty (Dec 22, 2020)

It’s a direct quote from a Hong Kong protester. You can argue that wypipo should pull the missing L in the meme, but the sentiment is most certainly the same.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 22, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> It’s a direct quote from a Hong Kong protester. You can argue that wypipo should pull the missing L in the meme, but the sentiment is most certainly the same.


Is this a cross thread reference to the China thread?

ETA- look at the title. Of the video. You posted. There’s an L. Yeah? The direct quote is ‘China is asshole’, but he’s not a native English speaker. He’s Chinese. He pronounces words differently. A way to make the meme to ‘directly quote’ the speaker is ‘China is asshole’. The actual title of the video.


----------



## racing_kitty (Dec 22, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Is this a cross thread reference to the China thread?
> 
> ETA- look at the title. Of the video. You posted. There’s an L. Yeah?


I can read, yeah? There’s a reason I chose that one, and not just because it was the first, and shortest clip I came across. I look at it as being in the same vein as “Don’t rap the N word when Caucasian.”

Problem?
ETA:
The only problem I see is I likely have posted this in the wrong thread. Not a drunk post, but move it accordingly if need be


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 22, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I can read, yeah? There’s a reason I chose that one, and not just because it was the first, and shortest clip I came across. I look at it as being in the same vein as “Don’t rap the N word when Caucasian.”
> 
> Problem?


Yeah absolutely. You wanna throw your hat in the ring here, I’m down. Just wanted to make sure I knew what point your defending.

So, the meme is funny because- this Chinese non English speaker peacefully protesting against the Chinese (who will actually kill protestors for this) mispronounces a word? In his second language.

Then we knowingly disregard the racially driven trope of Asians mispronouncing R’s and L’s, with absolutely no need to do so.

One more step.

No one asked you. You responded in the wrong thread with a weak position to defend a guy that’s constantly touting bullshit. So yeah - that’s a problem.

if you want to continue the conversation, either take it to PM or continue in the correct thread, where I’ve moved it.

You know better.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Posting arguably racist memes is how you are responding now?





amlove21 said:


> Now now now. I’m sure @R.Caerbannog has a perfectly good explanation for his borderline generalization of a pronunciation of a word that would be, categorically, considered a slight against Asians. In a thread about China.
> 
> A country he has generalized for months as hating.
> 
> ...





amlove21 said:


> Is this a cross thread reference to the China thread?
> 
> ETA- look at the title. Of the video. You posted. There’s an L. Yeah? The direct quote is ‘China is asshole’, but he’s not a native English speaker. He’s Chinese. He pronounces words differently. A way to make the meme to ‘directly quote’ the speaker is ‘China is asshole’. The actual title of the video.





amlove21 said:


> Yeah absolutely. You wanna throw your hat in the ring here, I’m down. Just wanted to make sure I knew what point your defending.
> 
> So, the meme is funny because- this Chinese non English speaker peacefully protesting against the Chinese (who will actually kill protestors for this) mispronounces a word? In his second language.
> 
> ...


This is not up for public debate. 

mod Edit

Ooh Rah


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog why do you post in here if you won't contribute? Do you know how frustrating it is to write a post, have it totally ignored and just be met by 3rd rate memes and a deflection from the topic? 

You sound like the American equivalent of a Chinese paid poster at this point in time I have to say. I know you won't reply to this but I'm asking you not to bother even engaging me in the future unless you're ready to at the very least reply to things.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

So as not to let this thread turn into the inevitable “dog pile”, @SpitfireV  is the last public word on this unless by a staff member.

Anything else can be done via p.m. Normal forum rules and etiquette apply.

Moving on…


----------



## Gunz (Dec 22, 2020)

PRC arms sales to Latin America. This article concerns trade deals and purchases, not smuggling. But I think the Cartels get more illegal weapons from North Korea and Vietnam than they do from the Chinese Triads. The article is from the US Army University Press. The table, below, is from Wikipedia.

China-Latin America Arms Sales



Primary SourceAK rifle variants (semi-automatic)United States[8][78][79]AK rifle variants (select-fire)Central America, South America, Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, South Asia, East Asia[80][81]AR-15 rifle (semi-automatic)United States[8][82]M16 rifle (select-fire)purportedly Vietnam[83]Fragmentation grenades M61/M67/MK 2/K400United States,[84][85][86][87][88][89][90] Central America, South Korea,[91] Spain, Soviet bloc, Guatemala,[92] Vietnam,[83]Unknown[92][93]RPG-7 /M72 LAW / M203 Grenade launchersUnited States,[94] Asia, Central America/Guatemala,[92] North Korea[93][95][96][97]Barrett M82United States.[8][92][93][97][98][99][100][101]M2 Carbine (select fire)Vietnam[83]


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## Gunz (Dec 22, 2020)

One of the most serious threats China poses, in my view, is their leading progress in the development of quantum computers and quantum encryption technology. We're working on it too--as is the private sector--but they've made significant breakthroughs which could lead to the ability to break _any_ code and/or to produce unbreakable codes. It's based on quantum entanglement...a bizarre, unexplained and yet experimentally-proven hiccup in Einstein's Theories which I understand only marginally...but it's implications are startling, especially with regard to communications and encryption.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

I've heard that about the crypto stuff for years now (in general not specifically to China). I don't know much about it honestly because it's not really an area of interest but if it ever comes off it'll be the proverbial broadsword in some ways.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 22, 2020)

For the board.

Interview with Ed Calderon. It's long, but I've earmarked it to start @1:32:30. Begins with the New Generation Cartel's growth, due to steady fentanyl supply, and transitions to talk of PRC involvement in Mexico. Direct reference to fentanyl coming in from China @1:36:00 and a direct reference to Chicom armament @ 1:41:30.






I'll end with this. China is literally an enemy to the free world. I don't understand the concerted effort to save face for them. Especially on these boards. The Chinese Communist Party is evil in the worst possible way.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

That seems directed at me and it is certainly not the case. I have an evidence based approach to life. Do not mistake not accepting the first thing I read or hear without checking as any kind of saving face for the CCP. 

Thank you for the video. I'll try and watch it tonight.


----------



## frostyred (Dec 28, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I've heard that about the crypto stuff for years now (in general not specifically to China). I don't know much about it honestly because it's not really an area of interest but if it ever comes off it'll be the proverbial broadsword in some ways.


It's very much due to the government knowing this is the pathway to cyber-superiority, and it certainly helps when the monolithic government can take carte blanche with forcing people out of areas via moving funding around very blatantly, and allow for ethical... shortcuts.

We truly are being outclassed by them in many ways just due to their beast not being on chain.

I wish the world would just pony-up and take on the CCP.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 29, 2020)

For the board:
Nice episode of Tim Pool with the people from China Watch; Uyghurs, Australian trade exports, the NBA, and a bunch of other topics are covered here.








frostyred said:


> It's very much due to the government knowing this is the pathway to cyber-superiority, and it certainly helps when the monolithic government can take carte blanche with forcing people out of areas via moving funding around very blatantly, and allow for ethical... shortcuts.
> 
> We truly are being outclassed by them in many ways just due to their beast not being on chain.
> 
> *I wish the world would just pony-up and take on the CCP.*


The world won't, at least not while it's leaders have been bought by Chinese silver and it's citizens placated by slave made goods. Even speaking harshly of China is enough to gain condemnation.

If anything, it's been hilariously ironic that some of China's most ardent advocates have turned a blind eye to the horrors of the CCP. The NBA holding training camps and Disney filming movies in Xinjiang, home of communist concentration camps, is insanely ironic considering their posturing in the US.
Kids Abused At NBA Youth Training Camps In China; Employee Says It Was Like Working In ‘World War II Germany,’ Report Claims


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 5, 2021)

Did China buy the New York Times? WTFF


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346255681255403520


----------



## CQB (Jan 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Oh I doubt it's a CCP sanctioned smuggling ring.  But it's definitely coming here from there.


I’d agree there. Look like Taiwanese chemists are working with the Triads & getting creative with different precursors. 

Manufacturing, Trafficking, and Selling: The Role of Taiwanese Cartels in Asia’s Meth Supply Chain - 報導者 The Reporter


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 7, 2021)

China continuing to post propaganda on US Social Media platforms going unchecked.  What a fucking bizarro world.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347247602094534658


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 7, 2021)

That's quite on the nose really.


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 7, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> That's quite on the nose really.



Kind of like their NYE flex in Wuhan


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 7, 2021)

Yeah I'd be interested to know how they've teed that one tbh.


----------



## CQB (Jan 7, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> China continuing to post propaganda on US Social Media platforms going unchecked.  What a fucking bizarro world.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347247602094534658


Not as good as Russia, but not bad. Sterilization equaling emancipation! Rock on PRC! Rock on.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 8, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> China continuing to post propaganda on US Social Media platforms going unchecked.  What a fucking bizarro world.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347247602094534658


I mean, do you need more proof that big tech is firmly in lockstep with the Chicoms? Think about it, who do you think gave China the technology and know how to develop the PRC's social credit system?

Twitter, Google, Facebook, ect, are not our allies. Big tech is not a friend to democracy.



CQB said:


> *Not as good as Russia*, but not bad. Sterilization equaling emancipation! Rock on PRC! Rock on.


Aww, 'Siri' is sad to hear you say that. 

(-10 social credit points for speaking critically of the party.)


----------



## Gunz (Jan 8, 2021)

CQB said:


> I’d agree there. Look like Taiwanese chemists are working with the Triads & getting creative with different precursors.
> 
> Manufacturing, Trafficking, and Selling: The Role of Taiwanese Cartels in Asia’s Meth Supply Chain - 報導者 The Reporter



Taiwan has become to meth distribution in Asia what Columbia's Uraba Antioquia has become to cocaine distribution to EU and the US. The transshipment hub of product; the former from the Golden Triangle, the latter from Peru's VRAEM.




ThunderHorse said:


> China continuing to post propaganda on US Social Media platforms going unchecked.  What a fucking bizarro world.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347247602094534658



It's interesting how the PRC is able to inject little doses of democracy into its population and, by doing so, actually tighten its control over them by_ appearing_ to remove the reasons for dissension. Brilliant, nuanced and sinister.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I mean, do you need more proof that big tech is firmly in lockstep with the Chicoms? Think about it, who do you think gave China the technology and know how to develop the PRC's social credit system?
> 
> Twitter, Google, Facebook, ect, are not our allies. Big tech is not a friend to democracy.



... you really have NO idea what's happened in Silicon Valley for the last 20-30 years, do you?

The Chinese Communist Party is very VERY on record of using a general lack of concern for WTO principles, disrespect for IP regulations, blatant corporate espionage, and then just manipulation of young international students who come to the U.S. for school to get out of the ridiculous University system in the Mainland, and go on to work in tech, then decide they want to go back (usually recreating similar/the same technology in the Mainland, especially over the last 10-15 years, as the Central Government has incentivized it and quite literally force-formed its own Silicon Valley-esque area). 

Moreover, if those Big Tech companies were in bed with the Chinese Government, don't you think we'd still be winning in the cyber domain right now?

Do you think Google would be representing such a low market share for the search engines? Or that they would have killed their big projects there, such as Dragonfly?

Or that Facebook would be completely banned inside the firewall?

Or that Twitter, as a company, would be doing everything they can to squash influence ops being conducted OPENLY on the platform?
50 Cent Party - Wikipedia
Little Pink - Wikipedia
Disclosing networks of state-linked information operations we’ve removed

Saying that Big Tech is not a friend to Democracy is like saying that firearms are not friends to Democracy because people use them to commit mass shootings; You're placing a morality judgement onto a non-organic system that can be misused.

Now, do we have some work to do in order to protect our data privacy, from a legislative standpoint? Absolutely. Is that a VERY fine tightrope? 100%. But to generalize and say Big Tech is part of the secret global cabal? You put a loooooot more competency in the Zuck and Jack Dorsey and all the people at Google (which, I know a few from time spent around that area) who are VERY against the evil that is the CCP and what that party has done to an otherwise great country.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 8, 2021)

If you don't think Big Tech is bowing to China, you should probably go buy the bridge the dude on the corner has a deed for. There's plenty of evidence and it's all in the open.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> If you don't think Big Tech is bowing to China, you should probably go buy the bridge the dude on the corner has a deed for. There's plenty of evidence and it's all in the open.


I'm just primarily a China analyst... but what would I know?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 8, 2021)

That's cool.  Don't get me wrong. But in the open you have NYT, Facebook, and Twitter literally allowing them to A) Bold Faced Lie B ) Deploy Propaganda.  

And at the same time, de-platform a sitting president. I just want consistency, and I know I'm not going to get that. However, where are iPhones made? Where are the majority of Apple Products made? Where are a majority of Shoes made? Did you not watch the NBA kow tow to the PRC when one its GMs fired a tweet in support of Hong Kong's Pro Democracy Demonstrators?

Don't mind me.


----------



## CQB (Jan 8, 2021)

Combative cooperation is as old as China itself.


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 8, 2021)

Didn’t Google help China build their firewall? I remember seeing some guy talk about that in some video


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 8, 2021)

@frostyred if you keep that up you'll be joining me as a CCP stooge.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> @frostyred if you keep that up you'll be joining me as a CCP stooge.



You're not a stooge, you're a Fanboy.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> You're not a stooge, you're a Fanboy.


You know, the worst part is that I really love China as a country; the people, the history, the culture... which is why I hate the CCP so much and what they did to it all.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 8, 2021)

frostyred said:


> ... you really have NO idea what's happened in Silicon Valley for the last 20-30 years, do you?
> 
> The Chinese Communist Party is very VERY on record of using a general lack of concern for WTO principles, disrespect for IP regulations, blatant corporate espionage, and then just manipulation of young international students who come to the U.S. for school to get out of the ridiculous University system in the Mainland, and go on to work in tech, then decide they want to go back (usually recreating similar/the same technology in the Mainland, especially over the last 10-15 years, as the Central Government has incentivized it and quite literally force-formed its own Silicon Valley-esque area).
> 
> ...


Dude, big tech is not a friend to Democracy. They essentially traded technology and technical know how, to blatant human rights abusers, for massive manufacturing centers and swaths of slave labor. China then turned around and used that tech do develop complex surveillance systems to keep their populations in check.

But wait, there's more!  

After China developed these internal policing systems, with big tech's help, they then started exporting them to the third world. I mean sure... big tech didn't directly foist an Orwellian security nightmare on the world, but they did have a hand in it's creation. All for what, access to China's markets and manufacturing centers?

As for big tech's "hubs", San Fransisco and Silicon Valley have become akin to cold war Moscow. Hooray for spies and unobtanium housing prices! 

Yeah... big tech isn't a threat to Democracy my foot. Zuck the Cuck and Jackie Girl can both stick it in their collectivist tailpipes. They've birthed the unholy amalgamation of Joseph Goebbels wet dream and 1984's control system.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 8, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> You're not a stooge, you're a Fanboy.



No I really am not. See frostyreds post below and that sums me up too despite what some people here believe. It bothers me sometimes.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> No I really am not. See frostyreds post below and that sums me up too despite what some people here believe. It bothers me sometimes.


I'm like 90% sure they were saying that in jest, not being serious, my dude


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> No I really am not. See frostyreds post below and that sums me up too despite what some people here believe. It bothers me sometimes.



I know you're not.  It was a joke, well mine was anyway.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 8, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> I know you're not.  It was a joke, well mine was anyway.



Considering you called me a stooge a few months back I'm sure you can accept my apology.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Dude, big tech is not a friend to Democracy. They essentially traded technology and technical know how, to blatant human rights abusers, for massive manufacturing centers and swaths of slave labor. China then turned around and used that tech do develop complex surveillance systems to keep their populations in check.
> 
> But wait, there's more!
> 
> ...


Mmm yes, the issue definitely is private businesses and NOT individuals/organizations in our branches of government and leadership that are allowing the erosion of personal privacy, data ownership, and disallowing us from closing our vectors of attack/vulnerability via legislation that forces the effective end of such things as end-to-end encryption, net-neutrality (which ensures that our data and information is not controlled by private companies but is more under open and public control)... all for money and power. Defffffinitely not those people.

Tech very rarely "handed" those things over. The 90's and 00's were wrought with blatant copy/paste of tech (both hardware and software) and outright, open air theft, which caught China up a good deal. This is all thanks to the introduction of and subsequent warping of capitalism after the 改革开放 (Opening and Reforms) instituted by Deng Xiaoping, with the CCP controlling and manipulating the system and its normal operating procedure of running a planned market economy.'

There have been some missteps, such as Project Dragonfly (which stoked the ire of a HUGE number of the workers at Google), and the tech companies VERY much have to be held very accountable for the privacy violations, misuse of personal data, and overall disgusting science experiment they've put the American people through for the sake of advertising money (given that there is some genuine, true desire to improve everyday life via data analysis that exists at a good deal of the companies in and around the Bay Area); but to categorically state that they've all not only knowingly caused the techno-autocratic nightmare that is life in 90% of the populated cities in Mainland China but also actively still support it, is actively ignoring both statistical information we have on hand, and multiple credible accounts from defectors and/or those that have studied this most of their life.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 8, 2021)

@R.Caerbannog @frostyred 

Playing devil's advocate here, but it seems like big tech is more influenced directly by capitalism than anything regardless of political alignment. That's not to say they are actively plotting or helping the U.S., but instead are looking to give their respective companies the leading edge across the board whether that be profits, technology or overhead. Would that be misreading it or?

Apologies if it's hard to understand what I'm trying to say, was trying to come up with a way to type out what I was thinking.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> Considering you called me a stooge a few months back I'm sure you can accept my apology.



No worries here at all. 

Consider other's perception.  It's entirely possible to admire the people and culture but still be critical of the regime.  Most of the posts criticizing China, that you get defensive over; are not criticizing the people or culture.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> @R.Caerbannog @frostyred
> 
> Playing devil's advocate here, but it seems like big tech is more influenced directly by capitalism than anything regardless of political alignment. That's not to say they are actively plotting or helping the U.S., but instead are looking to give their respective companies the leading edge across the board whether that be profits, technology or overhead. Would that be misreading it or?
> 
> Apologies if it's hard to understand what I'm trying to say, was trying to come up with a way to type out what I was thinking.



It's not capitalism, it's money and power.  It's no different, any where in the world.


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 8, 2021)

Serious Question how many Chinese actually hate the CCP? Why haven’t they tried to remove it or change it?


----------



## Gunz (Jan 8, 2021)

.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 8, 2021)

Jaknight said:


> Serious Question how many Chinese actually hate the CCP? Why haven’t they tried to remove it or change it?


Serious answer. They don’t own the tanks.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 8, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> No worries here at all.
> 
> Consider other's perception.  It's entirely possible to admire the people and culture but still be critical of the regime.  Most of the posts criticizing China, that you get defensive over; are not criticizing the people or culture.



You're confusing asking for evidence for big claims with being defensive.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 8, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> It's not capitalism, it's money and power.  It's no different, any where in the world.




That would be a negligible difference wouldn't it? I guess when I said capitalism I was thinking in the purest form (Ancap maybe?), that every decision is influenced solely by furthering their respective company/technology. They aren't driven by political ideals but who can help them further their own goals.


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 8, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> That would be a negligible difference wouldn't it? I guess when I said capitalism I was thinking in the purest form (Ancap maybe?), that every decision is influenced solely by furthering their respective company/technology. They aren't driven by political ideals but who can help them further their own goals.


Without (I hope) fully cracking this can of worms...

We don't have (free market) Capitalism.  The _closest_ label that describes the economic-political system we have in the US (and, I'd suggest, at large in the world today) is fascism - today commonly called crony capitalism or corporatism. ( holding breath...)

And I don't know if you spend time with FANG-style corporate companies, their discussions, and efforts, but they are _definitely_ driven (partially) by ideology.  Everything they do is steeped in it, though a cynic would suggest that it's just a marketing ploy.

With a pure, free-market kind of capitalism, the world would be so wildly different that it's not very comparable.  We can't look at an isolated issue and examine it from a free-market lens without first addressing all of the myriad interacting restrictions on and perversions of the free market.  There are so many subsidies, tax cut outs, regulations and exemptions, and laws that we don't even resemble a free market.  Many of our current problems are the (I'd argue) _direct_ result of these non-free-market government interventions into human association that they wouldn't (?) exist otherwise.

@RackMaster's distinction is far from negligible.  Capitalism != money&power.  *Every* social/political/human system has power structures (suck it tankies) and money is just a way to measure wealth.  There is money&power in communist China, there was in Eastern Germany, the Khmer Rouge, under Stalin, etc., etc., etc.

/rant


----------



## frostyred (Jan 8, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> @R.Caerbannog @frostyred
> 
> Playing devil's advocate here, but it seems like big tech is more influenced directly by capitalism than anything regardless of political alignment. That's not to say they are actively plotting or helping the U.S., but instead are looking to give their respective companies the leading edge across the board whether that be profits, technology or overhead. Would that be misreading it or?
> 
> Apologies if it's hard to understand what I'm trying to say, was trying to come up with a way to type out what I was thinking.


That's more or less the important take away; they are heavily money-driven at this point, with a sprinkle of genuine desire to improve the world.

But yes, agree with @RackMaster .



Jaknight said:


> Serious Question how many Chinese actually hate the CCP? Why haven’t they tried to remove it or change it?


It's hard to say without going around and asking people in the mainland, which will DEFINITELY get you watched and probably snatched. I mean, the Central Gov probably are why Jack Ma is missing right now.

Some dislike it, most can't say whether or not they do because certain things are either directly censored at the site level, the ISP level, or manually by the CCP's large censorship force. A lot are ignorant to what's happening, which is easy given the amount of control levied over information. Some are supportive because they were on the "right side" during the Cultural Revolution. Most can't express it anywhere or it's not worth their life to do so, since even VPNs are mostly illegal.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 8, 2021)

Finishing up work but definitely ear marking this for later, thanks for the clarification et al.


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 8, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> my own rant



Holy shit.  So I was diving deeper into the fascism definitions wikipedia page, when the name Umberto Eco caught my eye.  He's one of my favorite authors and philosophers (semiotician, and Italian, so presumably knows what he's talking about), and wrote _The Name of the Rose_, which I image a fair few of you have encountered through the movie version starring Sean Connery.

These are, according to him, the general properties of fascism:


> "The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
> "The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
> "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
> "Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
> ...



Yikes!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 8, 2021)

frostyred said:


> *Mmm yes, the issue definitely is private businesses and NOT individuals/organizations in our branches of government and leadership *that are allowing the erosion of personal privacy, data ownership, and disallowing us from closing our vectors of attack/vulnerability via legislation that forces the effective end of such things as end-to-end encryption, net-neutrality (which ensures that our data and information is not controlled by private companies but is more under open and public control)... all for money and power. *Defffffinitely not those people.
> 
> Tech very rarely "handed" those things over*. The 90's and 00's were wrought with blatant copy/paste of tech (both hardware and software) and outright, open air theft, which caught China up a good deal. This is all thanks to the introduction of and subsequent warping of capitalism after the 改革开放 (Opening and Reforms) instituted by Deng Xiaoping, with the CCP controlling and manipulating the system and its normal operating procedure of running a planned market economy.'
> 
> There have been *some missteps*, such as Project Dragonfly (which stoked the ire of a HUGE number of the workers at Google), and the tech companies VERY much have to be held very accountable for the privacy violations, misuse of personal data, and overall disgusting science experiment they've put the American people through for the sake of advertising money (given that there is some genuine, true desire to improve everyday life via data analysis that exists at a good deal of the companies in and around the Bay Area); but to categorically state that they've all not only knowingly caused the techno-autocratic nightmare that is life in 90% of the populated cities in Mainland China but also actively still support it, is actively ignoring both statistical information we have on hand, and multiple credible accounts from defectors and/or those that have studied this most of their life.


From what I've seen, big tech is pretty much immune to govt. Between their mock hearings on Capitol Hill, censoring a sitting President, and getting their puppets to shoot down the repeal of section 230, they're a force of their own. They ain't helpless babes.

Tech got in bed with a commie regime that murdered *millions *of their own people. Insinuating that big tech was taken advantage of is akin to Joe wondering why his junk burns after raw dogging a stripper. To simplify, big tech indirectly gave the world an Orwellian nightmare while Joe got the clap.

Lastly, calling big techs actions over the past few decades ain't "some missteps". Again... Orwellian nightmare and god knows what other misdeeds. I wouldn't be surprised if those big tech idiots helped topple govts... oh wait. I forgot we're currently living that last part, while the Chicoms laugh their asses off.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 8, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> @R.Caerbannog @frostyred
> 
> Playing devil's advocate here, but it seems like big tech is more influenced directly by capitalism than anything regardless of political alignment. That's not to say they are actively plotting or helping the U.S., but instead are looking to give their respective companies the leading edge across the board whether that be profits, technology or overhead. Would that be misreading it or?
> 
> Apologies if it's hard to understand what I'm trying to say, was trying to come up with a way to type out what I was thinking.


@RackMaster and @Board and Seize have pretty good takes on this. Power, ideology, and to a lesser extent money.

I think big tech is focused on accruing power. They've essentially enthralled a large chunk of the global population without their knowledge. Given the moves they've been making in disseminating their technology and 'experiments' on end user's, I think they're perfecting the projection of soft power via a phone or tablet.

China used this tech to foist an Orwellian nightmare on their people. Big tech on the other hand, has used this power to tap into minds and resources of the world. All without having to conquer territory or fund standing armies. Think East India Trade Company but with information, soylent chugging, and brainwashed progressives. 



Jaknight said:


> Serious Question how many Chinese actually hate the CCP? Why haven’t they tried to remove it or change it?


@Gunz and @frostyred made good summations.

I'm not an expert on the mindset of the average Chinese, but I have some ideas. If you get a chance, check out some of the Manhua's on the net they're great fodder. I'll send you a PM, so as to not potentially get any authors or creators in trouble.

But to echo @Gunz, anyone who is dissatisfied has no way to access arms or training, they have no way of organizing, and comms are useless. If anyone steps outta line, they end up getting their organs cut out while they're still alive.

Not to mention, a huge chunk of China's military forces are primarily committed to keeping the population docile and in check. At the moment, Chian's military is currently faced inwards.


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 8, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @RackMaster and @Board and Seize have pretty good takes on this. Power, ideology, and to a lesser extent money.
> 
> I think big tech is focused on accruing power. They've essentially enthralled a large chunk of the global population without their knowledge. Given the moves they've been making in disseminating their technology and 'experiments' on end user's, I think they're perfecting the projection of soft power via a phone or tablet.
> 
> ...


Thanks


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

Good to see the Liberal's waking up to reality. 

Public safety minister details China’s foreign interference efforts in letter to MPs


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 10, 2021)

Can someone explain to me how relaxing anything to due with Chinese tech companies is a good thing?

What Will the U.S.-China Relationship Look Like in the Biden Era?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 10, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> Can someone explain to me how relaxing anything to due with Chinese tech companies is a good thing?
> 
> What Will the U.S.-China Relationship Look Like in the Biden Era?


I gotchu fam. Straight from my internet jackalope source, our nations 2021 plan for economic peace with China.


----------



## CQB (Jan 10, 2021)

Today the US is ending restrictions on government contact with their counterparts in Taiwan which sees the end of an arrangement in place since 1979. The prior arrangement extended diplomatic recognition to mainland China & ignored Taiwan.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 10, 2021)

CQB said:


> Today the US is ending restrictions on government contact with their counterparts in Taiwan which sees the end of an arrangement in place since 1979. The prior arrangement extended diplomatic recognition to mainland China & ignored Taiwan.



That's good. It'll wind the PRC up something chronic which is always funny to watch.


----------



## DA SWO (Jan 10, 2021)

CQB said:


> Today the US is ending restrictions on government contact with their counterparts in Taiwan which sees the end of an arrangement in place since 1979. The prior arrangement extended diplomatic recognition to mainland China & ignored Taiwan.


1979, Jimmy Carter.
Doofus.


----------



## CQB (Jan 10, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> That's good. It'll wind the PRC up something chronic which is always funny to watch.


The US UN Ambassador Kelly Craft with be in Taiwan in a couple of days, that should add to the fun.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 13, 2021)

Well now:

Huawei patent mentions use of Uighur-spotting tech


----------



## CQB (Jan 14, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well now:
> 
> Huawei patent mentions use of Uighur-spotting tech


Mentioned in the Pompeo interview with the VoA in another thread, is the duplicity of the PRC, where they say they will not do something (such as militarise the South China Sea) & then go ahead & do it. SNAFU!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 19, 2021)

Color me unsurprised.

Chinese step up attempts to influence Biden team - US official


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 19, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Color me unsurprised.
> 
> Chinese step up attempts to influence Biden team - US official


 China already knows 10% for the big guy


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 24, 2021)

Well now.  China gives coastguards power to fire on foreign ships in disputed waters


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 24, 2021)

And they continue to press...

Taiwan reports second day of incursions by Chinese air force (trust.org)


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2021)

More China/India tension: India and China clash again on Himalayan border | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP


----------



## Gunz (Jan 25, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Color me unsurprised.
> 
> Chinese step up attempts to influence Biden team - US official





ThunderHorse said:


> Well now.  China gives coastguards power to fire on foreign ships in disputed waters





Blizzard said:


> And they continue to press...
> 
> Taiwan reports second day of incursions by Chinese air force (trust.org)





Marauder06 said:


> More China/India tension: India and China clash again on Himalayan border | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP



EDITED

There's a new man in the driver's seat and everybody's testing. DPRK, now the PRC, soon Iran, the Russians, our Euro allies, maybe even the Jihadists. How hard do we push the new guy to get what we want? How far can we go before his backbone stiffens...if it ever does? What strategic gains can we make while the new administration is trying to settle in? Our adversaries often look upon our more liberal administrations as easier marks simply because they tend to be more conciliatory, less antagonistic.

And they all know Biden's got a lot of crap on his plate. An ex-POTUS is about to stand trial in what'll probably be a big dog and pony fiasco. They all saw angry mobs tear up the Capitol. COVID infections raging through the population. It must seem like America's coming apart at the seams and now's the time to take advantage.

I think we're going to see a lot more of this.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 25, 2021)

The three national security policies I can recall:  The Reagan Doctrine/anti-USSR, the GWOT, and America First.  I do know that I have not heard Biden articulate any national security policy.  With the state of our government right now, especially given the events of the past year, if I was a booger-eater, I'd sure as hell be gathering intel and thinking about plans be them overt, covert, cyber, whatever.

I agree with our esteemed colleague @Gunz , I think we're going to see more of this.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2021)

Good idea but I bet Canada would be one of the last to sign.

Security group calls on world leaders to unite against China - iPolitics


----------



## CQB (Jan 26, 2021)

Maybe so, but not a biggie, 5 eyes and all. Usually they all agree though there has been outliers on lone issues for whatever reasons, far above my pay grade to figure out.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

This is covid related but fits here better due to the extent of espionage. 

Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies


----------



## Gunz (Jan 26, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> This is covid related but fits here better due to the extent of espionage.
> 
> Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies




Just an aside: the words “Chinese company” always translate to:“Ministry of State Security monitored quasi-Government closely supervised entity imitating a free-market share-holder owned private sector business.”


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2021)

More Chinese Saber Rattling: 

China sharpens language, warns Taiwan that independence 'means war'


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 28, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> More Chinese Saber Rattling:
> 
> China sharpens language, warns Taiwan that independence 'means war'



And why not?  This is the perfect time to do it.  They know Joe isn't going to do anything.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 28, 2021)

They've been saying that for years. It's part of saving face.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 28, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> They've been saying that for years. It's part of saving face.


Yep...that's the ace card they pull out when they want to feel big. Now that Trump is gone, they want to do it again....


----------



## CQB (Jan 28, 2021)

The last time China was in open conflict with anyone was with Vietnam in 1979, which both sides claim as a win, thought it’s generally regarded as a Viet win. Add to this the complexity of an amphibious invasion & the PRC would have to get it dead right.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 29, 2021)

I wonder what they would have done over the GameStop drama...

link
China Executes Former Head of Asset Management Firm in Bribery Case​


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 29, 2021)

WTF is wrong with this administration?

Biden administration delays Chinese military investment ban

Blinken said they'd maintain a tough stance on China...sure thing buddy.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 29, 2021)

CQB said:


> The last time China was in open conflict with anyone was with Vietnam in 1979, which both sides claim as a win, thought it’s generally regarded as a Viet win. Add to this the complexity of an amphibious invasion & the PRC would have to get it dead right.



Absolutely. It’s way too risky in any case. It would disrupt Xi’s One Belt One Road grand plan, his debt-trap diplomacy...and all the other nefarious Dr Evil shit. Strategic islands, monster aircraft carriers, quantum computers etc. Zillions of dollars in investments at stake that would be at risk with a mad stab at Taiwan.


----------



## AWP (Jan 29, 2021)

I love that the Chinese gov't unleashed a biological agent on the world and almost everyone is giving them a pass.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 29, 2021)

AWP said:


> I love that the Chinese gov't unleashed a biological agent on the world and almost everyone is giving them a pass.



Almost like it's an indicator of how beholden we are of them


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 29, 2021)

AWP said:


> I love that the Chinese gov't unleashed a biological agent on the world and almost everyone is giving them a pass.


I'm not sure what emoji to give this because it's so true.


----------



## CQB (Jan 30, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Absolutely. It’s way too risky in any case. It would disrupt Xi’s One Belt One Road grand plan, his debt-trap diplomacy...and all the other nefarious Dr Evil shit. Strategic islands, monster aircraft carriers, quantum computers etc. Zillions of dollars in investments at stake that would be at risk with a mad stab at Taiwan.


The other point that follows from my first is the US & it’s allies, win lose or draw, have spent considerable time on a two way range in various conflicts globally over time.  I’m not discounting the PLA, as that would ignore their capabilities, but it give me food for thought.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 30, 2021)

.


----------



## Brill (Jan 30, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> I'm not sure what emoji to give this because it's so true.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 31, 2021)

Chinese submariners patrolling South China Sea suffer 'serious' psych problems, study finds



> A fifth of sailors assigned to Chinese submarines patrolling the South China Sea have experienced some degree of mental health problems, according to a study published this month.



That's a pretty significant portion of the force, especially in non-combat conditions.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2021)

Brill said:


> View attachment 38752



How did you get a picture of my penus?


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Chinese submariners patrolling South China Sea suffer 'serious' psych problems, study finds
> 
> 
> 
> That's a pretty significant portion of the force, especially in non-combat conditions.



Odd that this would’ve been made public.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 31, 2021)

Interesting development. My info is old now but mental health isn't (or wasn't) much of a priority in China so it wouldn't surprise me that this attitude extends out to the military as well. As for the underlying and specific cause for these submariners...who would know. High optempo with a dash of bad screening?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 31, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Chinese submariners patrolling South China Sea suffer 'serious' psych problems, study finds
> 
> 
> 
> That's a pretty significant portion of the force, especially in non-combat conditions.



Not a bubblehead, but I know more than a few of them.  Takes a special kind of guy to be one, especially when they end up on a combat patrol or deterrent patrol.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 1, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not a bubblehead, but I know more than a few of them.  Takes a special kind of guy to be one, especially when they end up on a combat patrol or deterrent patrol.



That’s true. And Chinese subs may lack some of the amenities ours have to help the stress of months submerged.


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 1, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Chinese submariners patrolling South China Sea suffer 'serious' psych problems, study finds
> 
> 
> 
> That's a pretty significant portion of the force, especially in non-combat conditions.



Let's hope those mental health issues don't extend to the folks with their fingers on the buttons of nukes or torps.

I wonder if they have strong central control of that like the Soviets did/(Russians do?)....


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2021)

Gunz said:


> That’s true. And Chinese subs may lack some of the amenities ours have to help the stress of months submerged.


They probably also don't have OSHA, or an IG.  Or Congressionals.  ;)


----------



## Dame (Feb 1, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Let's hope those mental health issues don't extend to the folks with their fingers on the buttons of nukes or torps.


Pardon me for saying it but, maybe that's the point?

Chinese psyops be like:


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 1, 2021)

I wouldn't be surprised if the launch authority was completely out of the hands of the submarine crew.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 5, 2021)

Turkey getting in on the genocide action. 

Turkey Uighurs fear sellout to China in exchange for vaccine


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Turkey getting in on the genocide action.
> 
> Turkey Uighurs fear sellout to China in exchange for vaccine



Turkey would sell an Armenian into Slavery for a grain of rice.  Even if the Armenian was a Muslim.  So this is unsurprising.


----------



## CQB (Feb 7, 2021)

The Chinese own nightmare has come to pass; they’re constrained. Even NATO wants to hop into the Asia-Pacific now.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2022)

Rather than jam up the Ukrainian thread, I'll just post another reminder here that we can't take our eyes off these fuckers:
China wanted to appear neutral between Russia and Ukraine. It isn't

China is the largest threat from several different angles. Seems possible Putin's miscalculations may have accelerated Xi's timeline for China to emerge.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2022)

I know I can’t be the first person to have thought of this, but does this Ukraine business give China the idea that maybe they could do the same thing to Taiwan and nobody will try to stop them?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I know I can’t be the first person to have thought of this, but does this Ukraine business give China the idea that maybe they could do the same thing to Taiwan and nobody will try to stop them?



Generally from having trained with the Taiwanese at Uni and then OBC.  Their Army will fight to the last man and they will lob hundreds of missiles right back at China.  So the costs of unification will be horrific, China will have to level the island before they get to touch a beach.


----------



## CQB (Mar 20, 2022)

The PRC must also sail four hours from the mainland, plenty of time to be intercepted. The Japanese navy would play a part, along with the South Korean navy, which I’m told are brutal. If successful, it will be more coercive than kinetic in my view.
The head shed in Beijing have seen that US power isn’t dead, with its economic power being leveled at Russia giving them something to think about. They need access to US currency & semiconductors & will have to tread carefully.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 20, 2022)

The response to China wouldn't be as strong as to Russia because people have much much more trade involved and China is better at buying UN votes than Russia is. However that said there would still be something and it would hurt them. 

Like I said earlier, I don't think China is ramping up to, at least by force, take Taiwan any time soon. They'll want their other carriers on line at least before they do anything and the buildup will be probably even more noticeable than Russia and Ukraine and I would suggest might take a lot longer.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 20, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> The response to China wouldn't be as strong as to Russia because people have much much more trade involved and China is better at buying UN votes than Russia is. However that said there would still be something and it would hurt them.
> 
> Like I said earlier, I don't think China is ramping up to, at least by force, take Taiwan any time soon. They'll want their other carriers on line at least before they do anything and the buildup will be probably even more noticeable than Russia and Ukraine and I would suggest might take a lot longer.


Yep...China is great at playing the "long" game. IMO, they are THE best at it...or at least one of the best....


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> The response to China wouldn't be as strong as to Russia because people have much much more trade involved and China is better at buying UN votes than Russia is. However that said there would still be something and it would hurt them.
> 
> Like I said earlier, I don't think China is ramping up to, at least by force, take Taiwan any time soon. They'll want their other carriers on line at least before they do anything and the buildup will be probably even more noticeable than Russia and Ukraine and I would suggest might take a lot longer.


FWIW, this report was published the other day:
China planned Taiwan invasion in fall, alleged Russian intel leak claims


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 22, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> FWIW, this report was published the other day:
> China planned Taiwan invasion in fall, alleged Russian intel leak claims



At the end the quote is that it was a tentative consideration; interesting if true nonetheless. The headline is also a bit different to the article which mentions annexation (which could happen in a number of ways other than an invasion) but not invasion explicitly. Autumn is also typhoon season up there as well, if I remember rightly.

Either way, thanks for the link.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 22, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> At the end the quote is that it was a tentative consideration; interesting if true nonetheless. The headline is also a bit different to the article which mentions annexation (which could happen in a number of ways other than an invasion) but not invasion explicitly. Autumn is also typhoon season up there as well, if I remember rightly.
> 
> Either way, thanks for the link.


Yeah, there's so much crap out there -- who knows if there's any truth to it.  Just another piece of info.


----------



## CQB (Mar 22, 2022)

Election…nice if there was a change. The wolf warrior paradigm didn’t work out.


----------



## CQB (Mar 26, 2022)

So things have changed considerably in the last day or so. The Solomon Islands have a draft deal with the PRC, the bags of cash angle but with added military.
Also the announcement of closer economic cooperation between the US & Oz in the Pacific to look at economic coercion & supply chain threats.
Lastly, universities here have been advised to look elsewhere for international students away from China due to the their Thousand Talents program as it can co-opt bright minds to transfer sensitive research.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 26, 2022)

CQB said:


> So things have changed considerably in the last day or so. The Solomon Islands have a draft deal with the PRC, the bags of cash angle but with added military.
> Also the announcement of closer economic cooperation between the US & Oz in the Pacific to look at economic coercion & supply chain threats.
> Lastly, universities here have been advised to look elsewhere for international students away from China due to the their Thousand Talents program as it can co-opt bright minds to transfer sensitive research.



Solomons will default on their loans and then what happens? At least we're nice when they default.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 27, 2022)

CQB said:


> So things have changed considerably in the last day or so. The Solomon Islands have a draft deal with the PRC, the bags of cash angle but with added military.
> Also the announcement of closer economic cooperation between the US & Oz in the Pacific to look at economic coercion & supply chain threats.
> Lastly, universities here have been advised to look elsewhere for international students away from China due to the their Thousand Talents program as it can co-opt bright minds to transfer sensitive research.


Hope the Solomon Islands got paid in gold, hard assets, or devalued USD, cause the Chinese Yaun is basically worthless. After the Evergrande banking collapse, I fail to see how any country can economically tie themselves to China. China is fucked.

That said... I wonder if bribing a deal, to stage forces on the Solomon Islands, is a desperation move of a dying man.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 27, 2022)

Debt Diplomacy is still a thing, even if the internet tries to say otherwise.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 10, 2022)

China has sold Serbia some* FK3 SAM units. 6x Y20s showed up in Belgrade overnight so possibly delivering those. Of note at least one of the Y20s had their countermeasures panel open for the flight. Routing looks like via Istanbul. 


*Unknown how many at this stage.


----------



## CQB (Apr 13, 2022)

The Sollies have had visits so far this month from our ONA chief Andrew Shearer & ASIS boss Paul Symon, our Minister for the Pacific Ned Seselja went on Tuesday & Kurt Campbell is arriving later this month. That's quite a team, but it is a serious issue with the usual wide open agreement with little detail from China.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 13, 2022)

CQB said:


> The Sollies have had visits so far this month from our ONA chief Andrew Shearer & ASIS boss Paul Symon, our Minister for the Pacific Ned Seselja went on Tuesday & Kurt Campbell is arriving later this month. That's quite a team, but it is a serious issue with the usual wide open agreement with little detail from China.


Seems like China is gonna try and start brushfires before they collapse. Is there any way to punish the Solomon Islands for getting in bed with the Chinese? Cause if the CCP makes a foot hold there they wouldn't they be poised to strike at the very heart of Australia? 

Considering China is a dying animal faced with total and complete collapse, I wonder if they plan on lashing out as their world starts to shrink. Any way to cut off energy imports to China and bring them to heel? Cause I hear they're very reliant on Aussie coal. Maybe Australia can start using it's resources to expand and build up itself up instead of exporting their resources to a bunch of ungrateful commies.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 13, 2022)

I'd like to thank Russia for their efforts in Ukraine and confirming for us that we really need to be focused on China


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'd like to thank Russia for their efforts in Ukraine and confirming for us that we really need to be focused on China


Obama says Russia isn't a threat.


----------



## CQB (Apr 13, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Seems like China is gonna try and start brushfires before they collapse. Is there any way to punish the Solomon Islands for getting in bed with the Chinese? Cause if the CCP makes a foot hold there they wouldn't they be poised to strike at the very heart of Australia?
> 
> Considering China is a dying animal faced with total and complete collapse, I wonder if they plan on lashing out as their world starts to shrink. Any way to cut off energy imports to China and bring them to heel? Cause I hear they're very reliant on Aussie coal. Maybe Australia can start using it's resources to expand and build up itself up instead of exporting their resources to a bunch of ungrateful commies.


The Sollies is a sovereign nation so they can make decisions on their own behalf. Others can only advise & apply whatever pressure they can to persuade them to look around & see what's occurring elsewhere. As for resources, coal in particular, it's currently about $310 per tonne & usually sells for about $50 per tonne. Our government is banking the change as we had a huge handout to the population during C-19 keep the ship afloat, which services the debt, so it's economically necessary. 
China cut off trade in lobsters, barley & a couple of others, so just tinkering around the edges really, but kept the commodities it really needs, like iron ore. Make no mistake, they need us (the west) more than we need them, as our coking & thermal coal can be sold anywhere as it's good. As an example, they cut out coal imports from us, leading to an energy crisis there last winter; no coal, no heat. We now sell to other markets, a middle power gave them the middle finger. The real threat is the grey warfare strategy they use, which so far has been difficult to counter.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 13, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Obama says Russia isn't a threat.


Yep...we heard it from the Puppet Master himself....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 14, 2022)

CQB said:


> The Sollies is a sovereign nation so they can make decisions on their own behalf. Others can only advise & apply whatever pressure they can to persuade them to look around & see what's occurring elsewhere. As for resources, coal in particular, it's currently about $310 per tonne & usually sells for about $50 per tonne. Our government is banking the change as we had a huge handout to the population during C-19 keep the ship afloat, which services the debt, so it's economically necessary.
> China cut off trade in lobsters, barley & a couple of others, so just tinkering around the edges really, but kept the commodities it really needs, like iron ore. Make no mistake, they need us (the west) more than we need them, as our coking & thermal coal can be sold anywhere as it's good. As an example, they cut out coal imports from us, leading to an energy crisis there last winter; no coal, no heat. We now sell to other markets, a middle power gave them the middle finger. The real threat is the grey warfare strategy they use, which so far has been difficult to counter.


Any way to fight fire with fire? China's forces and people are for the most part vulnerable and stick out like a sore thumb wherever they go. Considering a large part of their subterfuge revolves around peons in pressed suits promising loans, I'd think going after those facilitators would make life hard for the CCP.

You're right that China needs the West more the we need them and after the Covid debacle the CCP needs to pay. Same with their cronies and bought helpers.

Not sure if it helps, but a little bird has been singing about growing discontent in Shanghai and other parts of China. Especially with food shortages and govt lockdowns, it seems the people are pissed. With Winnie the Pooh holed up in it's bunker and parts of China starving, I wonder how long they can maintain equilibrium.


----------



## CQB (Apr 14, 2022)

Their B&R is difficult to compete with & African nations are a good example. Chinese firms want a good, oil or similar & approach the government & propose to extract it & share the profit with the said government. No problem except the locals do not really benefit as Chinese workers do the work. 
The western version of the same proposal is that in order to extract the good, the partnership needs human rights, democracy, legitimate voting etc. so it’s plain to see which is winning. Again, it’s very hard to counter.
As for Shanghai, it looks to be increasing with shortages of food & all the issues that go with that. My guess is that it will only get worse in certain areas. As China is a pretty big country it may be fine elsewhere.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 15, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ...growing discontent in Shanghai and other parts of China. Especially with food shortages and govt lockdowns, it seems the people are pissed. With Winnie the Pooh holed up in it's bunker and parts of China starving, I wonder how long they can maintain equilibrium.



The People's Liberation Army with 2,185,000 active duty personnel (not counting reserves) will maintain equilibrium as long as it retains discipline, cohesion and loyalty under the CCP. Discontent be damned.

From the Army War College: The PLA in 2025

https://nuke.fas.org/guide/china/pla-2025.pdf


----------



## AWP (Apr 15, 2022)

1) The people's discontent in China is irrelevant because of China's military and the government's willingness to use it as a sledgehammer on a fly.
2) As long as the West has cheap goods China can get away with a LOT of human rights violations. I'm talking the Uighurs looking like white collar criminals and not concentration camp inmates.
3) Africa? The people poor? Starving? Chinese money helping them out? *BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!* Oh, shit, that's... *BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! *I need to breathe...*BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! *African leaders don't give a flying fuck about their people. The Chinese are buying access from those in power and that's it. Africa knows two things: how to exploit its people and how to exploit its land. The continent of Africa practically exists to be exploited. The Chinese are the most recent in a long line of people harvesting that continent.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> The People's Liberation Army with 2,185,000 active duty personnel (not counting reserves) will maintain equilibrium as long as it retains discipline, cohesion and loyalty under the CCP. Discontent be damned.
> 
> From the Army War College: The PLA in 2025
> 
> https://nuke.fas.org/guide/china/pla-2025.pdf


Winnie the Pooh is cut off from the outside world, their economy is in shambles, and what's left is being outsourced. Discontent, especially in one of the Chinas crown jewel cities is a soft point that could be pushed.

That 2 million strong army is already tasked out all over China. You think people here in the Us were peeved about lockdowns, Xi has billion plus people who've lost their income, savings, and investments.


----------



## AWP (Apr 16, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Winnie the Pooh is cut off from the outside world, their economy is in shambles, and what's left is being outsourced. Discontent, especially in one of the Chinas crown jewel cities is a soft point that could be pushed.
> 
> That 2 million strong army is already tasked out all over China. You think people here in the Us were peeved about lockdowns, Xi has billion plus people who've lost their income, savings, and investments.



LOL

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown"

You're giving the Chinese people too much credit.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 16, 2022)

Tiananmen Square 1989. Students versus tanks. How'd that work out?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Tiananmen Square 1989. Students versus tanks. How'd that work out?


Think outside the box. If Tiananmen and HK have taught us anything is that for govt's like China the populace needs some sort of strike capability. Muslim extremists did it with RPG's, IED's, and EFP's, while the Ukrainians are doing it with NLAWS, drones, and Javelins.

One would think Shanghai would have the capability to cobble or import something of the like.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 16, 2022)

Bro, I’m just not buying it. There ain’t much of a box to think outside of when it comes to China. It’s a population that’s been indoctrinated since 1949. Every once in a while some students or intellectuals get a burr under their saddle to stage a protest. They just get squashed like a bug by the Big Machine.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 16, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Think outside the box. If Tiananmen and HK have taught us anything is that for govt's like China the populace needs some sort of strike capability. Muslim extremists did it with RPG's, IED's, and EFP's, while the Ukrainians are doing it with NLAWS, drones, and Javelins.
> 
> One would think Shanghai would have the capability to cobble or import something of the like.



I'm not sure where you get your ideas from but they're not grounded in reality. Ukraine isn't the same situation at all- they're being supplied because they were invaded. Giving a tiny (let me stress that) amount of people in Shanghai weapons to fight what would be a short and sharp losing battle (heavily indoctrinated population acting against them and a mass surveillance system the DDR would have killed for) that would start a war, with a nuclear power, for what would be a futile gesture.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Bro, I’m just not buying it. There ain’t much of a box to think outside of when it comes to China. It’s a population that’s been indoctrinated since 1949. Every once in a while some students or intellectuals get a burr under their saddle to stage a protest. They just get squashed like a bug by the Big Machine.


There's plenty of outside the box thinking when it comes to China. We just can't view things from a western perspective. 

Protesting is meaningless in surveillance states like China, especially when you don't have the means to fight back. If you're gonna break the norm in China it's kill or be killed. In Shanghai's case it's more akin to how you wanna go out. 

China is weak right now and is only going to get weaker. How the CCP lashes out as the walls close around it is another story entirely.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 16, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> China is weak right now and is only going to get weaker.



Can you quantify this please? I have my own ideas but I want to hear yours.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 17, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> China is weak right now and is only going to get weaker.



Great news! Now we can save trillions and shitcan our whole Indo-Pacific strategy…which, BTW, is based on the anxiety of our decline and China’s rise as a predominant power.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 17, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Can you quantify this please? I have my own ideas but I want to hear yours.



They have large amounts of the military deployed to keep even larger portions of the population locked up.  I think that can only be sustained for so long.


----------



## CQB (Apr 17, 2022)

It’s starting to as food & medicine runs short.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 17, 2022)

China needs us more then we need them.
Remember their retaliatory tariff's? Farmers whining, etc. 
I told my wife, 90 days, 180 max and China capitulates.  Which is pretty much what happened.  They are a net importer of food, invading Taiwan should result in the rest of the world shutting food exports off. 
That has results.  The DoD screaming China is the MICC at work.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 17, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> They have large amounts of the military deployed to keep even larger portions of the population locked up.  I think that can only be sustained for so long.



That's only a short term thing based on a policy (covid elimination). They can easily be pulled out of that if the need arose with the various police forces and militia taking over IMO.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 18, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Great news! Now we can save trillions and shitcan our whole Indo-Pacific strategy…which, BTW, is based on the anxiety of our decline and China’s rise as a predominant power.


Not really. Before their Kung Flu fuckup China was poised to make some pretty amazing strides, all on the back of the globalized world order as we knew it. China as we know it is a dying animal who is cornered and running out of options. Their demographics are gonna cause them to collapse, industry is leaving them, their contacts in the US and world politics are being exposed, and their equivalent of Wall Street crashed  a couple weeks ago. 

They're fucked. The strategy now is keeping them contained in case they decide to immolate Asia in it's entirety instead of going gently into the good night. 



RackMaster said:


> They have large amounts of the military deployed to keep even larger portions of the population locked up.  I think that can only be sustained for so long.


Exactly.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 18, 2022)

I do enjoy watching them eat up a lot of their resources having to "keep" their people in order. It does my heart good as they are the enemy....


----------



## Gunz (Apr 18, 2022)

Never cared for commies…except for the ones who got in my rear sight aperture.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 18, 2022)

I guess I'm not worthy of direct responses. Oh no.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 18, 2022)

I’m trying to wrap my head around China being a weakened failed state, just a “dying animal”, and its potential threat to us only a false flag conjured up by the military-industrial complex.

I mean, how long has China been around?


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 18, 2022)

Gunz said:


> I’m trying to wrap my head around China being a weakened failed state, just a “dying animal”, and its potential threat to us only a false flag conjured up by the military-industrial complex.
> 
> I mean, how long has China been around?


China? or Communist China?


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 19, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> China needs us more then we need them.
> Remember their retaliatory tariff's? Farmers whining, etc.
> I told my wife, 90 days, 180 max and China capitulates.  Which is pretty much what happened.  They are a net importer of food, invading Taiwan should result in the rest of the world shutting food exports off.
> That has results.  The DoD screaming China is the MICC at work.



I meant to reply to this the other day but forgot. I think the food importations are an important consideration. China- we can say PRC if you'd like- is trying to secure food supplies/supply routes and the Belt and Road is the main driver of that. People talk about that being a military led initiative (and don't get me wrong, it's a part of it) but I believe the main driver of it is food security. Access to fishing stocks is one of the main reasons for the South China Seas buffonery too, as well as deals with our own Pacific neighbours.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 19, 2022)

Gunz said:


> I’m trying to wrap my head around China being a weakened failed state, just a “dying animal”, and its potential threat to us only a false flag conjured up by the military-industrial complex.
> 
> I mean, how long has China been around?


China dying will play out over the next few years. As a potential threat, the CCP still has active assets in academia, govt, and they have an active collection/influence apparatus via tic toc and other platforms (think 5th gen warfare and our current political situation). Not to mention all their aramament will spawn some very ugly regional conflicts.

China is going to fracture and even if they absorb the Russians to meet their food and energy needs, they're only delaying the inevitable.


----------



## CQB (Apr 22, 2022)

It’s happened before; the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Square, the Korean War where no-one expected a peasant army to do what it did, plus a civil war which went under reported with apparently 250,000 killed & this is only in the 20th century. I wouldn’t write them off just yet. In all of the above there’s been one constant, the CCP. It has survived somehow & if you’re correct, whatever malady befalls the PRC it will somehow get off the canvas & move forward.


----------



## CQB (Apr 27, 2022)

I'm up for cross treat point for this. Pakistani suicide bomber targeted Chinese. 

Pakistan attack: Chinese tutors killed in Karachi university bombing 

some background

Karachi bombing: Why there is huge Baloch pushback against China-Pak corridor


----------



## CQB (Jun 14, 2022)

Signs of an uptick in coercive measures. 

'Non-war military operations': Xi readies China's forces for bigger overseas 'grey zone' role


----------



## SpitfireV (Jun 14, 2022)

Possibly related if not right now then down the track. 

New Chinese Aircraft Carrier's Dry Dock Is Flooded, Launch Imminent


----------



## CQB (Jun 14, 2022)

Yep, noted, also some other news; 






The boat looks pretty small though

Multiple Destroyers Were Swarmed By Mysterious 'Drones' Off California Over Numerous Nights


----------



## AWP (Jun 14, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Possibly related if not right now then down the track.
> 
> New Chinese Aircraft Carrier's Dry Dock Is Flooded, Launch Imminent


Catapults, that’s a game changer.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jun 14, 2022)

AWP said:


> Catapults, that’s a game changer.



Yup some electromagnetic thing too and not steam which is interesting but I don't know a lot about that sort of thing. Assume that's because they're non nuclear.


----------



## AWP (Jun 15, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Yup some electromagnetic thing too and not steam which is interesting but I don't know a lot about that sort of thing. Assume that's because they're non nuclear.



EMALS. The US is putting them on the new Ford-class carriers, but we’ve had problems with a number of things, actually.

The reason catapults are a game changer is few nations use them. Cats allow for the launching of heavier a/c which translates to more fuel and weapons. China’s existing carriers use a ski ramp for launching a/c which limits their usefulness. The new carrier will bring them closer to the US in capability.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> EMALS. The US is putting them on the new Ford-class carriers, but we’ve had problems with a number of things, actually.
> 
> The reason catapults are a game changer is few nations use them. Cats allow for the launching of heavier a/c which translates to more fuel and weapons. China’s existing carriers use a ski ramp for launching a/c which limits their usefulness. The new carrier will bring them closer to the US in capability.



It also allows for simultaneous launch and recovery, which many nations cannot do. Is a big deal.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 15, 2022)

I am not a DIA spook, so I don't know what I don't know, but....

I wonder if the carrier will be at all like a lot of their miltech for the past 50 years, ripped from stolen plans and reverse engineered, turning out to be a gilded lily, beautiful on the outside, but a POS on the inside.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 15, 2022)

CQB said:


> Multiple Destroyers Were Swarmed By Mysterious 'Drones' Off California Over Numerous Nights





I think it's pretty obvious what we're dealing with here.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 15, 2022)

CQB said:


> Yep, noted, also some other news;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm fairly certain the group of people on the back of that drone ship are playing mahjong.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 15, 2022)

A non-nuclear carrier is gonna be somewhat limited in range and utility


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## Marauder06 (Jun 15, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> A non-nuclear carrier is gonna be somewhat limited in range and utility


As long as it can range the second island chain...


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## AWP (Jun 15, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> A non-nuclear carrier is gonna be somewhat limited in range and utility


Once they have an UNREP capability plus bases in Africa, they’ll have legs. I’d imagine their escorts are more susceptible to fuel issues though.

Plus, you figure one more conventional carrier and then they start working on a nuke model to launch in…20 years? 25 tops?


----------



## Gunz (Jun 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> Once they have an UNREP capability plus bases in Africa, they’ll have legs. I’d imagine their escorts are more susceptible to fuel issues though.
> 
> Plus, you figure one more conventional carrier and then they start working on a nuke model to launch in…20 years? 25 tops?



Maybe to be launched in time for the CCP's centenary goal of 2049, by which time it intends China to be the world's preeminent power. They've written their Global Initiative 2049 into the CCP's constitution. It calls for China to lead economically, environmentally, technologically, culturally and militarily...and I'd assume there are a few choice provisions in there concerning Taiwan.


----------



## Hillclimb (Jun 20, 2022)

CQB said:


> Yep, noted, also some other news;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can probably supplement/carry some of these 




Anyone read the 100 Year Marathon by Michael Pillsbury


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2022)

Run on the banks in Heinan?


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 28, 2022)

House passes chips and science bill, sending measure to Biden’s desk



> The House passed a $280 billion bill on Thursday to strengthen the domestic chip manufacturing industry and finance scientific research in a bid to boost the United States’s competitiveness on the global stage, sending the measure to President Biden’s desk for final approval.
> 
> Lawmakers ultimately came to a consensus on the CHIPS and Science Act, which will allocate $54 billion for chips and public wireless supply chain innovation, including $39 billion that will go towards financial assistance to build, expand and modernize semiconductor facilities in the U.S. It also includes $11 billion for research and development by the Department of Commerce.



Hopefully this will help us reduce our reliance on Taiwanese semiconductors in a decade or so.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 28, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> House passes chips and science bill, sending measure to Biden’s desk
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this will help us reduce our reliance on Taiwanese semiconductors in a decade or so.


I can't imagine what it would be like to work in govt, always be a week late, and 100 bucks short.


----------



## CQB (Jul 31, 2022)

The 80th Army Group PLA have posted on Weibo “Prepare for war.” 

Grabs courtesy of realnewsnobullshit


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## pardus (Jul 31, 2022)

I don't think Nancy will make the trip to Taiwan, I hope she does though. Call the Commie's bluff.


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## CQB (Jul 31, 2022)

pardus said:


> I don't think Nancy will make the trip to Taiwan, I hope she does though. Call the Commie's bluff.


It would be disappointing if she bows out. Should a third country decide who visits another? No.


----------



## pardus (Aug 2, 2022)

pardus said:


> I don't think Nancy will make the trip to Taiwan, I hope she does though. Call the Commie's bluff.


I gotta say, credit where credit is due, good on the US govt/Dems for going ahead with the visit, that is exactly the kind of message we need to send (it's a shame we didn't do something similar in Ukraine). China is fucking pissed but are just saber rattling which is nothing new (though the intensity maybe). It's a great shame though that the White House said that they do not support independence for Taiwan, that kind of statement and stance will doom Taiwan.


----------



## CQB (Aug 2, 2022)

It's been the same handbags at 10 paces ever since Kissinger/Nixon with that particular situation. It's has been mentioned at every high level meeting since & nothing changes. Taiwan has been more aggressively confronted before in the late '50's & early 60's, known as the First & Second Taiwan Straights Crises. When tempers cooled a little, by agreement the PRC whimsically shelled nearby Taiwanese islands every second day.


----------



## pardus (Aug 2, 2022)

CQB said:


> It's been the same handbags at 10 paces ever since Kissinger/Nixon with that particular situation. It's has been mentioned at every high level meeting since & nothing changes. Taiwan has been more aggressively confronted before in the late '50's & early 60's, known as the First & Second Taiwan Straights Crises. When tempers cooled a little, by agreement the PRC whimsically shelled nearby Taiwanese islands every second day.


Same bat-time, same bat-place?


----------



## CQB (Aug 2, 2022)

pardus said:


> Same bat-time, same bat-place?


Imagine if the Peoples Republic of Amnesia commenced lobbing ordinance now.


----------



## Gordus (Aug 3, 2022)

Could mean absolutely nothing and I also expect ( and hope ) nothing to happen in the end, but that's a lot of hardware.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554377876727705601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554444910916411395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554502805582295040
So in worst case, China seizes one or more islands. Hundreds, maybe over a thousand people die in the process but a major conflict is prevented and they calll it a day ? still pretty bad even if it could be much worse. I personaly think, it's crap deals anyway because the Chinese won't ever give up their "reunification" dream and the captured island will only serve as more staging areas for an eventual invasion.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 3, 2022)

Food, fertilizer, & energy prices are going up, and the Chinese banking sector is in a tailspin. China is going to have to make a play whether they want to or not. China is fucked if they do, fucked if they don't.

If the CCP politburo can claim some token victory, it'll make the prospect of a few million Chinese people dying from starvation/energy shortages that much more palatable. At the end of the day, the CCP's goal is to maintain power over a dying country.

(My take after 3 ciders, 3 vodka tonic doubles, and 1 vodka seltzer. Suck it intel nerdz!  (Some of you are cool, so don't FISA me please.) )


----------



## AWP (Aug 3, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> (My take after 3 *ciders*, 3 vodka tonic doubles, and 1 *vodka seltzer*. Suck it intel nerdz!  (Some of you are cool, so don't FISA me please.) )



For a dude who rails against the feminization of our military, you sure drink some soy boy cucked out girly shit.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> For a dude who rails against the feminization of our military, you sure drink some soy boy cucked out girly shit.



I always pictured him a White Claw dude...  

I think they are ok on a hot day


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> For a dude who rails against the feminization of our military, you sure drink some soy boy cucked out girly shit.


Seasonal craft cider and it's pricey, bud. Vodka tonics are cheap, low carb, and get the job done. Gotta balance stuff out thanks to dumbass Xi and his puppets, the kid sniffers, economy.

I'm surprised you're not playing Destiny whilst your avatar is tea bagged by some teenager living in their parents basement.


----------



## Jaknight (Aug 3, 2022)

Gordus said:


> Could mean absolutely nothing and I also expect ( and hope ) nothing to happen in the end, but that's a lot of hardware.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554377876727705601
> ...


I think The CCP deliberately sent out their challenge about Pelosi landing to justify their “military operations” they knew the USA couldn’t back down, giving them an excuse about protecting sovereignty they can sell to their people and the non western world


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2022)

pardus said:


> I gotta say, credit where credit is due, good on the US govt/Dems for going ahead with the visit, that is exactly the kind of message we need to send (it's a shame we didn't do something similar in Ukraine). China is fucking pissed but are just saber rattling which is nothing new (though the intensity maybe). *It's a great shame though that the White House said that they do not support independence for Taiwan,* that kind of statement and stance will doom Taiwan.



I have no idea what this even means since they are independent and we continually supply arms to Taiwan.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> For a dude who rails against the feminization of our military, you sure drink some soy boy cucked out girly shit.


lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!ll


RackMaster said:


> I always pictured him a White Claw dude...
> 
> I think they are ok on a hot day


If you can find them, the Topo Chico's (the base model not the margarita version) are the best seltzer out there, exactly in the context you mentioned. Cutwater has some tasty pre-mades too- their vodka spritzer is a damn home run and strong. Sun+ 7% mixed fizzy drink = no pants. 



ThunderHorse said:


> I have no idea what this even means since they are independent and we continually supply arms to Taiwan.


I won't speak for the man; but I think our Kiwi friend was using the "_Well, I don't know, if it's a minor incursion into Ukraine, we might respond, we might not" _statement by President Biden as a footing for his comment. Saying "_We don't support Taiwanese independence" _leaves the door open to an aggressor that now knows what our kinetic intentions are, does it not? I think it worked out pretty poorly in the Ukraine example. @pardus if I mischaracterized what you intended, my b.


----------



## Brill (Aug 3, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> I always pictured him a White Claw dude...
> 
> I think they are ok on a hot day



The Kirkland brand is perfect for GA heat indexes.


----------



## AWP (Aug 3, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Seasonal craft cider and it's pricey, bud. Vodka tonics are cheap, low carb, and get the job done. Gotta balance stuff out thanks to dumbass Xi and his puppets, the kid sniffers, economy.
> 
> I'm surprised you're not playing Destiny whilst your avatar is tea bagged by some teenager living in their parents basement.



It is pricey, folks! That totally makes it better. My bad, your man card is intact and you are totally not a basic white girl.

I'm on a business trip, but thank you for assuming. For the record, I've been 'bagged 4 times in the game. Twice...I don't know why, just dicks being dicks in pvp. Once in pve because I kept dying to a boss. Once in pvp because I owned a sniper like an Afghan warlord owns a 10 year old boy. He kept posting up to the same lane, hard-scoping, and my "weak" scout rifle would either kill him or flinch him out of a shot. We beat his team 5-0 because he was dead or neutralized and it became a 3 on 2. 2 of the 4 bags were in the last 3 months and both were in Trials where people generally think of themselves as god tier instead of their actual worth.

Have the best day ever. <3's!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> It is pricey, folks! That totally makes it better. My bad, your man card is intact and you are totally not a basic white girl.
> 
> I'm on a business trip, but thank you for assuming. For the record, I've been 'bagged 4 times in the game. Twice...I don't know why, just dicks being dicks in pvp. Once in pve because I kept dying to a boss. Once in pvp because I owned a sniper like an Afghan warlord owns a 10 year old boy. He kept posting up to the same lane, hard-scoping, and my "weak" scout rifle would either kill him or flinch him out of a shot. We beat his team 5-0 because he was dead or neutralized and it became a 3 on 2. 2 of the 4 bags were in the last 3 months and both were in Trials where people generally think of themselves as god tier instead of their actual worth.
> 
> Have the best day ever. <3's!


Meh, not all of us made out like bandits thanks to the GWOT. I do love white girls .

I don't quite understand what your second paragraph says, but that's okay. I'm just gonna assume you're autistic and say, "Good for you buddy, you're doing neat things with that computer game." .

Right back at you .


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 3, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Meh, not all of us made out like bandits thanks to the GWOT. I do love white girls .
> 
> I don't quite understand what your second paragraph says, but that's okay. I'm just gonna assume you're autistic and say, "Good for you buddy, you're doing neat things with that computer game." .
> 
> Right back at you .


That’s funny, because your post leads me to believe the GWOT made you autistic.


----------



## Dame (Aug 3, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> That’s funny, because your post leads me to believe the GWOT made you autistic.


You say that like autism's a bad thing.


----------



## CQB (Aug 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!ll
> 
> If you can find them, the Topo Chico's (the base model not the margarita version) are the best seltzer out there, exactly in the context you mentioned. Cutwater has some tasty pre-mades too- their vodka spritzer is a damn home run and strong. Sun+ 7% mixed fizzy drink = no pants.
> 
> ...


April Glaspie, April Glaspie, please come to reception. 🍿


----------



## Gunz (Aug 4, 2022)

CQB said:


> April Glaspie, April Glaspie, please come to reception. 🍿



Well done, bro. 🤣 

Biden has out-Glaspied Glaspie.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 4, 2022)

CQB said:


> April Glaspie, April Glaspie, please come to reception. 🍿


What an absolute BANGER of a reference!!! Cheers to you, my friend. 

The kids would say that take was hikey a vibe, and in fact was bussin frfr, on god no cap.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!ll
> 
> If you can find them, the Topo Chico's (the base model not the margarita version) are the best seltzer out there, exactly in the context you mentioned. Cutwater has some tasty pre-mades too- their vodka spritzer is a damn home run and strong. Sun+ 7% mixed fizzy drink = no pants.
> 
> ...


TC Whiskey Co Cherry Seltzer. At least it's an actual "Japanese" High Ball.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 5, 2022)

Neat! I wonder how long our officials have been leaking technology to the PRC...  #sarcasm?

(The source is even funnier!)


Spoiler: Article



INVESTIGATIONS​The U.S. made a breakthrough battery discovery — then gave the technology to China​August 3, 2022·5:00 AM ET
COURTNEY FLATT



LAURA SULLIVAN
Twitter





Enlarge this image
The former UniEnergy Technologies office in Mukilteo, Wash. Taxpayers spent $15 million on research to build a breakthrough battery. Then the U.S. government gave it to China.
Jovelle Tamayo for NPR


When a group of engineers and researchers gathered in a warehouse in Mukilteo, Wash., 10 years ago, they knew they were onto something big. They scrounged up tables and chairs, cleared out space in the parking lot for experiments and got to work.
They were building a battery — a vanadium redox flow battery — based on a design created by two dozen U.S. scientists at a government lab. The batteries were about the size of a refrigerator, held enough energy to power a house, and could be used for decades. The engineers pictured people plunking them down next to their air conditioners, attaching solar panels to them, and everyone living happily ever after off the grid.
"It was beyond promise," said Chris Howard, one of the engineers who worked there for a U.S. company called UniEnergy. "We were seeing it functioning as designed, as expected."






Enlarge this image
Chris Howard was an engineer at UniEnergy Technologies.
Jovelle Tamayo for NPR


But that's not what happened. Instead of the batteries becoming the next great American success story, the warehouse is now shuttered and empty. All the employees who worked there were laid off. And more than 5,200 miles away, a Chinese company is hard at work making the batteries in Dalian, China.

The Chinese company didn't steal this technology. It was given to them — by the U.S. Department of Energy. First in 2017, as part of a sublicense, and later, in 2021, as part of a license transfer. An investigation by NPR and the Northwest News Network found the federal agency allowed the technology and jobs to move overseas, violating its own licensing rules while failing to intervene on behalf of U.S. workers in multiple instances.
Now, China has forged ahead, investing millions into the cutting-edge green technology that was supposed to help keep the U.S. and its economy out front.






Enlarge this image
UniEnergy Technologies and Avista's solar energy storage system is displayed at an event in 2015.
Office of Gov. Jay Inslee


Department of Energy officials declined NPR's request for an interview to explain how the technology that cost U.S. taxpayers millions of dollars ended up in China. After NPR sent department officials written questions outlining the timeline of events, the federal agency terminated the license with the Chinese company, Dalian Rongke Power Co. Ltd.
"DOE takes America's manufacturing obligations within its contracts extremely seriously," the department said in a written statement. "If DOE determines that a contractor who owns a DOE-funded patent or downstream licensee is in violation of its U.S. manufacturing obligations, DOE will explore all legal remedies."
Several U.S. companies have tried to get a license to make the batteries​The department is now conducting an internal review of the licensing of vanadium battery technology and whether this license — and others — have violated U.S. manufacturing requirements, the statement said.
Forever Energy, a Bellevue, Wash., based company, is one of several U.S. companies that have been trying to get a license from the Department of Energy to make the batteries. Joanne Skievaski, Forever Energy's chief financial officer, has been trying to get hold of a license for more than a year and called the department's decision to allow foreign manufacturing "mind boggling."




Enlarge this image
Joanne Skievaski is the chief financial officer of Forever Energy in Bellevue, Wash. The company has been trying to get a license from the Department of Energy to make the batteries for over a year.
Jovelle Tamayo for NPR


"This is technology made from taxpayer dollars," Skievaski said. "It was invented in a national lab. (Now) it's deployed in China, and it's held in China. To say it's frustrating is an understatement."
The idea for this vanadium redox battery began in the basement of a government lab, three hours southwest of Seattle, called Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. It was 2006, and more than two dozen scientists began to suspect that a special mix of acid and electrolyte could hold unusual amounts of energy without degrading. They turned out to be right.
It took six years and more than 15 million taxpayer dollars for the scientists to uncover what they believed was the perfect vanadium battery recipe. Others had made similar batteries with vanadium, but this mix was twice as powerful and did not appear to degrade the way cellphone batteries or even car batteries do. The researchers found the batteries capable of charging and recharging for as long as 30 years.






Enlarge this image
An employee looks at a vanadium flow battery in Pacific Northwest National Laboratory's Battery Reliability Laboratory in 2021.
Andrea Starr/Pacific Northwest National Laboratory


Gary Yang, the lead scientist on the project, said he was excited to see if he could make the batteries outside the lab. The lab encourages scientists to do just that, in an effort to bring critical new technology into the marketplace. The lab and the U.S. government still hold the patents, because U.S. taxpayers paid for the research.
In 2012, Yang applied to the Department of Energy for a license to manufacture and sell the batteries.
The agency issued the license, and Yang launched UniEnergy Technologies. He hired engineers and researchers. But he soon ran into trouble. He said he couldn't persuade any U.S. investors to come aboard.
"I talked to almost all major investment banks; none of them (wanted to) invest in batteries," Yang said in an interview, adding that the banks wanted a return on their investments faster than the batteries would turn a profit.






Enlarge this image
Imre Gyuk (left), director of energy storage research in the Office of Electricity of the Department of Energy, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee and Gary Yang of UniEnergy Technologies stand together in 2015.
Office of Gov. Jay Inslee


He said a fellow scientist connected him with a Chinese businessman named Yanhui Liu and a company called Dalian Rongke Power Co. Ltd., along with its parent company, and he jumped at the chance to have them invest and even help manufacture the batteries.
At first, UniEnergy Technologies did the bulk of the battery assembly in the warehouse. But over the course of the next few years, more and more of the manufacturing and assembling began to shift to Rongke Power, Chris Howard said. In 2017, Yang formalized the relationship and granted Dalian Rongke Power Co. Ltd. an official sublicense, allowing the company to make the batteries in China.
Any company can choose to manufacture in China. But in this case, the rules are pretty clear. Yang's original license requires him to sell a certain number of batteries in the U.S., and it says those batteries must be "substantially manufactured" here.
In an interview, Yang acknowledged that he did not do that. UniEnergy Technologies sold a few batteries in the U.S., but not enough to meet its requirements. The ones it did sell, including in one instance to the U.S. Navy, were made in China. But Yang said in all those years, neither the lab nor the department questioned him or raised any issues.






Enlarge this image
Chris Howard is now the director of operations at Forever Energy in Bellevue, Wash.
Jovelle Tamayo for NPR


Then in 2019, Howard said, UniEnergy Technologies officials gathered all the engineers in a meeting room. He said supervisors told them they would have to work in China at Rongke Power Co. for four months at a time.
"It was unclear, certainly to myself and other engineers, what the plan was," said Howard, who now works for Forever Energy.
Yang acknowledges that he wanted his U.S. engineers to work in China. But he says it was because he thought Rongke Power could help teach them critical skills.
Yang was born in China but is a U.S. citizen and got his Ph.D. at the University of Connecticut. He said he wanted to manufacture the entire battery in the U.S., but that the U.S. does not have the supply chain he required. He said China is more advanced when it comes to manufacturing and engineering utility-scale batteries.
"In this field — manufacturing, engineering — China is ahead of the U.S.," Yang said. "Many wouldn't believe [it]."
He said he didn't send the battery and his engineers abroad to help China. He said the engineers in that country were helping his UniEnergy Technologies employees and helping him get his batteries built.
But news reports at the time show the moves were helping China. The Chinese government launched several large demonstration projects and announced millions of dollars in funding for large-scale vanadium batteries.
As battery work took off in China, Yang was facing more financial trouble in the U.S. So he made a decision that would again keep the technology from staying in the U.S.

The EU has strict rules about where companies manufacture products​In 2021, Yang transferred the battery license to a European company based in the Netherlands. The company, Vanadis Power, told NPR it initially planned to continue making the batteries in China and then would set up a factory in Germany, eventually hoping to manufacture in the U.S., said Roelof Platenkamp, the company's founding partner.
Vanadis Power needed to manufacture batteries in Europe because the European Union has strict rules about where companies manufacture products, Platenkamp said.
"I have to be a European company, certainly a non-Chinese company, in Europe," Platenkamp said in an interview with NPR.






Enlarge this image
Gary Yang launched UniEnergy Technologies after the Department of Energy issued him a license to manufacture and sell the vanadium batteries.
Jovelle Tamayo for NPR


But the U.S. has these types of rules, too. Any transfer of a U.S. government license requires U.S. government approval so that manufacturing doesn't move overseas. The U.S. has lost significant jobs in recent years in areas where it first forged ahead, such as solar panels, drones and telecom equipment. Still, when UniEnergy requested approval, it apparently had no trouble getting it.
On July 7, 2021, a top official at UniEnergy Technologies emailed a government manager at the lab where the battery was created. The UniEnergy official said they were making a deal with Vanadis, according to emails reviewed by NPR, and were going to transfer the license to Vanadis.
"We're working to finalize a deal with Vanadis Power and believe they have the right blend of technical expertise," the email from UniEnergy Technologies said. "Our transaction with Vanadis is ready to go pending your approval ..."
The government manager responded that he needed confirmation before transferring the license and emailed a second employee at UniEnergy. The second employee responded an hour and a half later, and the license was transferred to Vanadis Power.
Whether the manager or anyone else at the lab or Department of Energy thought to check during that hour and a half or thereafter whether Vanadis Power was an American company, or whether it intended to manufacture in the U.S., is unclear. Vanadis' own website said it planned to make the batteries in China.

In response, department officials said they review each transfer for compliance and said that new rules put in place last summer by the Biden administration will close loopholes and keep more manufacturing here.
But agency officials acknowledged that its reviews often rely on "good faith disclosures" by the companies, which means if companies such as UniEnergy Technologies don't say anything, the U.S. government may never know.






Enlarge this image
Joanne Skievaski said she and others from the company repeatedly warned Department of Energy officials that the UniEnergy license was not in compliance.

Jovelle Tamayo for NPR
That's a problem that has plagued the department for years, according to government investigators.
In 2018, the Government Accountability Office found that the Department of Energy lacked resources to properly monitor its licenses, relied on antiquated computer systems, and didn't have consistent policies across its labs.
In this case, it was an American company, Forever Energy, that raised concerns about the license with UniEnergy more than a year ago. Joanne Skievaski said she and others from the company repeatedly warned department officials that the UniEnergy license was not in compliance. In emails NPR has reviewed, department officials told them it was.
"How is it that the national lab did not require U.S. manufacturing?" Skievaski asked. "Not only is it a violation of the license, it's a violation to our country."
Now that the Department of Energy has revoked the license, Skievaski said she hopes Forever Energy will be able to acquire it or obtain a similar license. The company plans to open a factory in Louisiana next year and begin manufacturing. She bristles at the idea that U.S. engineers aren't up to the challenge.
"That's hogwash," she said. "We are ready to go with this technology."
Still, she says it will be difficult for any American company at this point to catch up. Industry trade reports currently list Dalian Rongke Power Co. Ltd. as the top manufacturer of vanadium redox flow batteries worldwide. Skievaski also worries about whether China will stop making the batteries once an American company is granted the right to start making them.
That may be unlikely. Chinese news reports say the country is about to bring online one of the largest battery farms the world has ever seen. The reports say the entire farm is made up of vanadium redux flow batteries.
_This story is a partnership with NPR's Station Investigations Team, which supports local investigative journalism, and the Northwest News Network, a collaboration of public radio stations that broadcast in Oregon and Washington state._



archive.ph


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 5, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> TC Whiskey Co Cherry Seltzer. At least it's an actual "Japanese" High Ball.


I will ALWAYS call a spade a spade- and you, sir, know your whisky. I will be trying this (if I can find it here) ASAP.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 21, 2022)

Guess who's gonna partake in US Mid-Term Elections? If you guess China, thanks to the Biden crime family, you guessed right!

EXCLUSIVE: Joe Biden Enlists China Owned TikTok to Partner with Federal Voting Assistance Program in 2022 Midterm Elections

Official Tiktok announcement:
Our commitment to election integrity



Spoiler: Image


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 21, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Guess who's gonna partake in US Mid-Term Elections? If you guess China, thanks to the Biden crime family, you guessed right!
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Joe Biden Enlists China Owned TikTok to Partner with Federal Voting Assistance Program in 2022 Midterm Elections
> 
> ...


Remember when Trump was trying to gut and destroy TikTok. It's too bad that didn't get done.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Remember when Trump was trying to gut and destroy TikTok. It's too bad that didn't get done.


Yep! The rot within our system runs deep. China's investment into the Deep State has been very lucrative. That and their PSYOPS campaigns have been a resounding success for them.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Remember when Trump was trying to gut and destroy TikTok. It's too bad that didn't get done.


Yep! And it pains me to this day to think about what he could’ve accomplished if he would’ve stayed off of Twitter and let his policies do his talking.

He was supposed to bring the republican party together, not tear it apart; he was the one who would expose the ultra-left; Instead he only made them stronger.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 22, 2022)

Seriously... mean tweets? No one believes that line of BS anymore. An election was stolen and the puppet put in place is firmly in the pockets of the PRC. Twitter has been revealed to be the sham and our MSM is a shittier woke version of Pravda.

To top everything off, China the people who literally vivisect people alive are gonna "help" administer US mid-term elections... yeah, that dog don't hunt.






 But sure, lets blame "mean tweets".


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 22, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Seriously... mean tweets? No one believes that line of BS anymore. An election was stolen and <snip>


Cool.


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 22, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Seriously... mean tweets? No one believes that line of BS anymore. An election was stolen and the puppet put in place is firmly in the pockets of the PRC. Twitter has been revealed to be the sham and our MSM is a shittier woke version of Pravda.
> 
> To top everything off, China the people who literally vivisect people alive are gonna "help" administer US mid-term elections... yeah, that dog don't hunt.
> 
> ...


Sources? Anyone looking for a source?


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> An election was stolen



That is the dangerous myth that inspired a mob of lemmings and crackpots to attack my Capitol in one of the most disgraceful events of my lifetime.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2022)

CQB said:


> April Glaspie, April Glaspie, please come to reception. 🍿


My man went way, WAY back for that one.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2022)

Had Trump stayed off Twitter the amount of corruption required to prevent his re-election would be staggering. He'd have been a B-29 to Biden's Japan without his Twitter tirades.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 22, 2022)

Meanwhile Canada buys into the Belt and Road bullshit.

Chinese government launches 'Belt and Road' warehouse in Surrey


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2022)

AWP said:


> Had Trump stayed off Twitter the amount of corruption required to prevent his re-election would be staggering. He'd have been a B-29 to Biden's Japan without his Twitter tirades.


 
Liked his support of Israel, his stand on illegal immigration, his dialogue with NK and a number of his policies...but the man never missed an opportunity to open his big mouth and take it over the top. The stolen election shit was the last straw for me.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Meanwhile Canada buys into the Belt and Road bullshit.
> 
> Chinese government launches 'Belt and Road' warehouse in Surrey



Wow. And they wanted Chinese flags flying outside the goddam thing. We need to invade Canada.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Liked his support of Israel, his stand on illegal immigration, his dialogue with NK and a number of his policies...but the man never missed an opportunity to open his big mouth and take it over the top. The stolen election shit was the last straw for me.



My thoughts on Trump are complicated and given my inability to keep it short are...lengthy. 

Trump straight up, no shit, tried to provoke a war with Iran post-election but pre-inauguration.

Whether I shouldn't, I can lay out my case, but I'd like to think my rep on this board is enough. Regardless, we did some provocative shit and the Iranians didn't bite. I worked in one of AFCENT's command and control facilities and watched it unfold in real time. Look up "bomber task force" and that should help anyone connect the dots.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2022)

AWP said:


> My thoughts on Trump are complicated and given my inability to keep it short are...lengthy.
> 
> *Trump straight up, no shit, tried to provoke a war with Iran post-election but pre-inauguration*.
> 
> Whether I shouldn't, I can lay out my case, but I'd like to think my rep on this board is enough. Regardless, we did some provocative shit and the Iranians didn't bite. I worked in one of AFCENT's command and control facilities and watched it unfold in real time. Look up "bomber task force" and that should help anyone connect the dots.


I'm interested in this.  I looked up "*bomber task force*" in the context of Iran, but it seems like we were doing those kinds of ops well before the election. Understanding that I just did a quick skim, it also seemed to me like these were usual, legit show-of-force measures that we regularly take against our adversaries, such as in the waters around Taiwan.

The most provocative thing I can recall President Trump doing towards Iran was the Suleimani strike, but that also happened pre-election IIRC.  

I remember some people making the claim the President Trump would start a war to try to stay in power after he lost the election, but IMO these were the same kind of people who made similar comments about President Obama, just on the other side.

It also seems to me that if President Trump really wanted war with Iran, he could have legitimately directed steps that would have ensured that it happened.

IMO (again), we are already at war with Iran.  From the Levant to South America to Iraq, and now even in our homeland (targeting Salman Rushdie and John Bolton), Iran has attacked us, and our allies and interests, again and again.  In Iraq they were the ones supplying the materials for the game-changing EFPs, and providing the expertise for insurgents on the ground to carry out complex attacks that kidnapped and killed our service members.

Whatever his motivations, I think President Trump generally made the right calls vis-à-vis Iran.  Tearing up the Framework was the right call.  Suleimani?  Glad he's dead.  Deterrence through military and economic coercion?  That's probably the only thing that's going to work at this point. 

I'm open to persuasion about the bolded part, but I'm not seeing it right now.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> It also seems to me that if President Trump really wanted war with Iran, he could have legitimately directed steps that would have ensured that it happened.
> 
> I'm open to persuasion about the bolded part, but I'm not seeing it right now.


Here's the deal. 

BTF wasn't a state secret, we published that wherever we could, but BTF was part of the show.

We took our...tactical assets and put them over the Arabian Gulf. We had them use the old Cold War tactic of running in towards the Iranian coast, but we did something a bit different. Certain code words are used for certain activities. Some are widely known, some are not. For example, "Fox Two" indicates the launch of an infrared guided missile like the Sidewinder. Our tactical assets used other code words in the clear, along with flight profiles, to simulate "actions" against Iran. To a layman like myself, the type and quantity of assets in the air at that time, coupled with their flight profiles, could give one the impression of..."penetrating the airspace" of another country.

Look, whatever we want to think of Iran and the bulk of the nations out there, they understand our mission profiles. They can look at our flight patterns and figure out what is going on; in fact that is a means of identifying certain aircraft. Before anyone loses their mind over this, look up Operation Bolo. Acting like one thing while being something else isn't new in aerial warfare.

Without too many specifics beyond the above, our air and naval forces implemented profiles which could elicit a response. I'm giving away secrets? Eh, look up the Navy Triton that was shot down...do you think that was without some background? Shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. They took some of our sailors hostage...and that wasn't part of a broader undeclared war? American, please...

At the end of the day, people need to step back and consider the totality of a picture instead of isolated events. If they will do that then a lot of foreign and domestic events will pop into focus. Don't look at today or this month, look at this year or the last decade and suddenly some things will make sense.

Believe me or not, I'm onboard and I understand, but Trump tried to provoke a war with Iran in December of 2020. There's no other way to explain what our air and naval forces did that month and I watched it all in real time courtesy of radar and Link 16 data.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 22, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> IMO (again), we are already at war with Iran.



Yes, sir. IMO we’ve been at war with them since the hostage crisis and Desert One.


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 22, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Meanwhile Canada buys into the Belt and Road bullshit.
> 
> Chinese government launches 'Belt and Road' warehouse in Surrey



Hate the CCP, but god damn they've got the geopolitical influence game down.  Imagine the types of gains the US would have made in 
South America if we had done something like this to combat the soviets, rather than continuously installing semi-fascist puppet governments/letting "Pro-American" dictators stay in power.



Marauder06 said:


> I'm interested in this.  I looked up "*bomber task force*" in the context of Iran, but it seems like we were doing those kinds of ops well before the election. Understanding that I just did a quick skim, it also seemed to me like these were usual, legit show-of-force measures that we regularly take against our adversaries, such as in the waters around Taiwan.
> 
> The most provocative thing I can recall President Trump doing towards Iran was the Suleimani strike, but that also happened pre-election IIRC.
> 
> ...



The whole thing came about because of a report by the New Yorker that said Gen. Milley had to repeatedly talk Trump and other non-military officials out of ordering a strike on Iran. 

Does that sound like something Trump wanted to do? Sure, but I don't think it would have been him trying to start a war to stay in power so much as him listening to the hawks in his cabinet.



> Trump did not want a war, the chairman believed, but he kept pushing for a missile strike in response to various provocations against U.S. interests in the region. Milley, by statute the senior military adviser to the President, was worried that Trump might set in motion a full-scale conflict that was not justified. Trump had a circle of Iran hawks around him and was close with the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who was also urging the Administration to act against Iran after it was clear that Trump had lost the election. “If you do this, you’re gonna have a fucking war,” Milley would say.



I fully agree with your bolded statements. We're in a "warm" conflict with Iran. They do a lot more to push close to actual war than either the Chinese or Russians do.


----------



## AWP (Aug 22, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The whole thing came about because of a report by the New Yorker that said Gen. Milley had to repeatedly talk Trump and other non-military officials out of ordering a strike on Iran.
> 
> Does that sound like something Trump wanted to do? Sure, but I don't think it would have been him trying to start a war to stay in power so much as him listening to the hawks in his cabinet.



Remember when the Iranians smoked that civilian airliner around the time of the Iranian strikes in Iraq? Yeah...shooting down that airliner saved a BUNCH of lives. Killing those civilians, however tragic, averted...
Anyway, how's everyone's weather?


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The whole thing came about because of a report by the New Yorker that said Gen. Milley had to repeatedly talk Trump and other non-military officials out of ordering a strike on Iran.


It's always interesting how GEN Milley comes off looking like a hero in stories about GEN Milley using GEN Milley as the source of information.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 22, 2022)

Gunz said:


> That is the dangerous myth that inspired a mob of lemmings and crackpots to attack my Capitol in one of the most disgraceful events of my lifetime.


If we call that a mob, we're calling the Summer of riots an insurrection, right? 

Just want to make sure we're being accurate with descriptions. Because the CDC said I couldn't protest a mask mandate, but said protesting "racial injustice" in "mostly peaceful" manner (read riotous and arsonous behavior) was somehow ok? FBI also targeted parents that voiced displeasure over Mask Mandates in schools also did squat to nil regarding the wait of riots. 

This is my you blew a 3-1 lead moment/comment. 😀



AWP said:


> Here's the deal.
> 
> BTF wasn't a state secret, we published that wherever we could, but BTF was part of the show.
> 
> ...



So what about those Riverine types that got rolled up way too fast due to a Nav failure during O's time on the stick. Was that a real fuck up or were we trying some probe shit and underestimated that they'd get swarmed by an armada of missile boats and be smoked reeeeel quick?


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 22, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> If we call that a mob, we're calling the Summer of riots an insurrection, right?
> 
> Just want to make sure we're being accurate with descriptions. Because the CDC said I couldn't protest a mask mandate, but said protesting "racial injustice" in "mostly peaceful" manner (read riotous and arsonous behavior) was somehow ok? FBI also targeted parents that voiced displeasure over Mask Mandates in schools also did squat to nil regarding the wait of riots.
> 
> ...


Can we call the capital riot an insurrection AND the riots in Portland an insurrection? Some of us hate both of those “expressions of discontent.”


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 22, 2022)

That's for you to decide if you're going to conflate the two. At the end of the day, yours or my politics color our opinions of each. Portland is Antifa city and probably needs to be excised from our country with a spoon and not a scalpel. Jennie Durkin in Seattle should be in prison for allowing the CHOP/CHAZ to exist and allow people to get murdered within it. 

But hey, a protest that went awry for a few hours is totally an insurrection. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 22, 2022)

Anyway. China.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 22, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> But hey, a protest that went awry for a few hours is totally an insurrection. 🤷‍♂️


You may want to check your definition of the word “awry”.


----------



## CQB (Aug 23, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Meanwhile Canada buys into the Belt and Road bullshit.
> 
> Chinese government launches 'Belt and Road' warehouse in Surrey


B&R! The only policy without a policy. Is my reading of the Canukistan accent, that they named the suburb sorry? Just askin'


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 23, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Cool.


The sooner you accept the reality of the situation, the sooner we can fix the issue of PRC entrenchment in our system.



DasBoot said:


> Sources? Anyone looking for a source?


Common knowledge. There is literally hours of video, pictures, and judicial testimony showing this. Find it yourself, make the attempt.



Gunz said:


> That is the dangerous myth that inspired a mob of lemmings and crackpots to attack my Capitol in one of the most disgraceful events of my lifetime.


It's not a myth brother. US elections we're stolen and PRC puppets we're put in place. There is literally evidence of pay for play w/ the Chinese and POTUS (laptop from hell).

Now tiktok, a PRC Ministry of State Security app is gonna "help run" US elections.



ThunderHorse said:


> That's for you to decide if you're going to conflate the two. At the end of the day, yours or my politics color our opinions of each. Portland is Antifa city and probably needs to be excised from our country with a spoon and not a scalpel. Jennie Durkin in Seattle should be in prison for allowing the CHOP/CHAZ to exist and allow people to get murdered within it.
> 
> But hey, a protest that went awry for a few hours is totally an insurrection. 🤷‍♂️


What's being done is called "thread sliding". Pertinent information is hidden or obscured by introducing red herrings to the discussion and shifting the discussion toward another topic. (Ie Orange man bad)

If discussing the PRC's ties with the Biden family, the corruption in govt, and a hostile foreign intel agency helping run US midterms, is enough to bring out this response... that means the topic is right on target.


----------



## DasBoot (Aug 23, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The sooner you accept the reality of the situation, the sooner we can fix the issue of PRC entrenchment in our system.
> 
> 
> Common knowledge. There is literally hours of video, pictures, and judicial testimony showing this. Find it yourself, make the attempt.
> ...


Can’t cite sources. Trash post made by trash poster. 

As stated above- 

“Cool”


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 23, 2022)

CQB said:


> B&R! The only policy without a policy. Is my reading of the Canukistan accent, that they named the suburb sorry? Just askin'



Vancouver is slowly being taken over by the Chinese.  Before the pandemic it was roughly a third of all real estate holders were Chinese.  But it's not as cut and dry. Lots of Chinese money being funneled away from the CCP.

Following a Trail of Tainted Money From China Into Vancouver Real Estate - OCCRP


----------



## AWP (Aug 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So what about those Riverine types that got rolled up way too fast due to a Nav failure during O's time on the stick. Was that a real fuck up or were we trying some probe shit and underestimated that they'd get swarmed by an armada of missile boats and be smoked reeeeel quick?



I'm not sure except to say that Iran definitely flexed on the US. Iran exploited the situation, especially with the video confession made by one of our officers. Speaking of which, Iranian boats are closing in and you didn't think to dump your laptops and sat phones, z out your radios, enact your emergency destruction plan, etc.? Clowns.

If it was a deliberate probe by the US, that was one of the worst intel gathering missions in our history.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm not sure except to say that Iran definitely flexed on the US. Iran exploited the situation, especially with the video confession made by one of our officers. Speaking of which, Iranian boats are closing in and you didn't think to dump your laptops and sat phones, z out your radios, enact your emergency destruction plan, etc.? Clowns.
> 
> If it was a deliberate probe by the US, that was one of the worst intel gathering missions in our history.


That was uber-embarrassing, to be sure.  From the white socks on up.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 23, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Meanwhile Canada buys into the Belt and Road bullshit.
> 
> Chinese government launches 'Belt and Road' warehouse in Surrey



I remember us discussing whether NZ would get booted out out "Five Eyes" for all the stuff they were doing with China. Cindy seemed to love Orange Chicken and Chinese Yuan a but much. Then the pandemic hit...and now Trudeau wants to be the new Cindy?  Crazy, it's like there's a great Commonwealth example to follow in Australia!


----------



## Gunz (Aug 23, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> It's not a myth brother. US elections we're stolen and PRC puppets we're put in place.



The only thing stolen were the brain cells from assclowns like this


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I remember us discussing *whether NZ would get booted out out "Five Eyes" *for all the stuff they were doing with China. Cindy seemed to love Orange Chicken and Chinese Yuan a but much. Then the pandemic hit...and now Trudeau wants to be the new Cindy?  Crazy, it's like there's a great Commonwealth example to follow in Australia!


Well, I mean we did it before... ;)


----------



## AWP (Aug 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Well, I mean we did it before... ;)


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 23, 2022)

That was ANZUS and not Five Eyes and also lol the US leaks more information daily just...because? Than we ever could. Maybe the US should get kicked out because of Snowden and the rest compromising operations.

Just to be explict for the members with lesser reading comprehension I'm being facetious but let's not throw stones in these glass houses.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I remember us discussing whether NZ would get booted out out "Five Eyes" for all the stuff they were doing with China. Cindy seemed to love Orange Chicken and Chinese Yuan a but much. Then the pandemic hit...and now Trudeau wants to be the new Cindy?  Crazy, it's like there's a great Commonwealth example to follow in Australia!



If you were half as clever as you think you are you are, you'd know both major parties have had major issues. But you knew that right? You're so well informed on NZ politics I know you knew that.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> *That was ANZUS and not Five Eyes* and also lol the US leaks more information daily just...because? Than we ever could. Maybe the US should get kicked out because of Snowden and the rest compromising operations.
> 
> Just to be explict for the members with lesser reading comprehension I'm being facetious but let's not throw stones in these glass houses.



Are you sure about that?  The way I remember it was that ANZUS was the political side, while the FVEY designation was a security classification caveat that NZ was temporarily removed from, and then later allowed back into, after NZ refused to allow possibly-nuclear-armed US ships to dock.  but I could be conflating things.

And yes, we have HUGE problems with protecting classified info in an appropriate manner, from the Presidential level on down.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 23, 2022)

I was under the impression that continued almost as normal but with us removed from certain distributions. I'm not being coy on purpose it's what I've read over the years and obviously whatever those programs were will never be publicly released.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 23, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> I was under the impression that continued almost as normal but with us removed from certain distributions. I'm not being coy on purpose it's what I've read over the years and obviously whatever those programs were will never be publicly released.


This is something that I should know, but I'm embarrassed to say that I don't.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 23, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> This is something that I should know, but I'm embarrassed to say that I don't.



It happened way before your time; I wouldn't expect you to know. I suspect most of it was SIGINT stuff. I've got something in mind to check later on today.


----------



## CQB (Aug 23, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Vancouver is slowly being taken over by the Chinese.  Before the pandemic it was roughly a third of all real estate holders were Chinese.  But it's not as cut and dry. Lots of Chinese money being funneled away from the CCP.
> 
> Following a Trail of Tainted Money From China Into Vancouver Real Estate - OCCRP


We booted them out here, big time. Their bags of cash aimed at left leaning politicians had them with their dicks caught in the wringer. Those that weren’t punted were told to fuck off, so they sold up & left. Don’t misunderstand, I count Chinese locals here as friends, So stand by in your AO for some fun.


----------



## CQB (Aug 23, 2022)

P


Marauder06 said:


> Are you sure about that?  The way I remember it was that ANZUS was the political side, while the FVEY designation was a security classification caveat that NZ was temporarily removed from, and then later allowed back into, after NZ refused to allow possibly-nuclear-armed US ships to dock.  but I could be conflating things.
> 
> And yes, we have HUGE problems with protecting classified info in an appropriate manner, from the Presidential level on down.


ANZUS is largely military. I believe it has only been enacted once, on 9/11. Our prime minister of the day John Howard was in a hotel with a view of the Pentagon.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 23, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> If you were half as clever as you think you are you are, you'd know both major parties have had major issues. But you knew that right? You're so well informed on NZ politics I know you knew that.


The problem is you think you're clever. 

Plenty informed that to this day you have idiotic rolling mask mandates and Cindy comes up with dumb shit. 

But, as late as  April 2021 NZ was ranting about the rest of FVEY's stance on China because Jacinda or maybe her entire party wants some Belt Road money.

New Zealand Criticized for 'Five Eyes' Alliance Stance on China


Here is criticism towards New Zealand for their shitty stance in 2018. Probably around the time I think the subject came up on the board.

China's communist party has so much power in New Zealand that western countries might stop sharing intelligence



SpitfireV said:


> That was ANZUS and not Five Eyes and also lol the US leaks more information daily just...because? Than we ever could. Maybe the US should get kicked out because of Snowden and the rest compromising operations.
> 
> Just to be explict for the members with lesser reading comprehension I'm being facetious but let's not throw stones in these glass houses.



As mentioned above. It wasn't ANZUS. It was Five Eyes. Hence the dislike 

NZ was suspended from ANZUS from 1986-2012 over your weird nuclear weapons policy. In 2007 you started fulfilling other parts if the treaty and suspension lifted in 2012.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 23, 2022)

What have masks got to do with this?

Do you think it would be appropriate if I used diminutives or nicknames for your Presidents?

I suggest you read the articles you quote. Ranting? Hardly. Once again you're only looking at very narrow slivers of information to confirm your own thoughts without any kind of critical thinking. Here, I'll make it easy for you.



> New Zealand's foreign minister, Nanaia Mahuta, believes the Five Eyes alliance is not the best forum to voice those concerns.
> 
> 
> “Can I say we do value the Five Eyes relationship. We receive a significant benefit from being a part of that relationship and they are close allies and friends in terms of common values and principles. But whether or not that framework needs to be invoked every time on every issue, especially in the human rights space, is something that we have expressed further views about,” said Mahuta,



That means that the government thinks there are better ways to do it- and they have. You'd know that, of course, so I suspect I'm preaching to the panel here. Whether it's an appropriate forum or not is worthy of discussion.



> As mentioned above. It wasn't ANZUS. It was Five Eyes. Hence the dislike
> NZ was suspended from ANZUS from 1986-2012 over your weird nuclear weapons policy. In 2007 you started fulfilling other parts if the treaty and suspension lifted in 2012.



Did you miss the exchange above? You've just said it wasn't ANZUS then said it was. Which is it?

I concede our politicos have struggled with the Chinese influence, as I said earlier, just in case you have some half cocked assumption there again too.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> What have masks got to do with this?
> 
> Do you think it would be appropriate if I used diminutives or nicknames for your Presidents?
> 
> ...



We weren't discussing suspension of NZ's membership in ANZUS a few years ago, it was Five Eyes and you tried to say it was ANZUS. The point was to tell you that you were incorrect. 😛

Yeah, there's a better way to do it. It's called cold turkey. But the US won't even do that.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 1, 2022)

Taiwanese troops shoot down drone over island outpost


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 1, 2022)

I'm shocked this was reported. 

‘Sacred mission’: Dozens of Chinese Canadian groups echo Beijing on Taiwan


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2022)

Shocked, shocked I tell you!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565103899568218112


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 1, 2022)




----------



## Totentanz (Sep 1, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shocked, shocked I tell you!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565103899568218112



"May have"?


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 1, 2022)

That's their words not the UN just FYI.



> The report published on Wednesday in the wake of the visit by UN High Commissioner of Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet in May, said that “allegations of patterns of torture, or ill-treatment, including forced medical treatment and adverse conditions of detention, are credible, as are allegations of individual incidents of sexual and gender-based violence.”



China responsible for ‘serious human rights violations’ in Xinjiang province: UN human rights report

Edit: The report itself. https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default...tries/2022-08-31/22-08-31-final-assesment.pdf


----------



## AWP (Sep 1, 2022)

And the UN’s report will change nothing, so whatever.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 2, 2022)

AWP said:


> And the UN’s report will change nothing, so whatever.


"Sanction me.  Sanction me with your ah-me.  Oh, you don't HAVE an ah-me?  Then  think you need to..."


----------



## CQB (Sep 3, 2022)

Meanwhile, in the Solomon Islands, not long ago their PM signed a five year security deal with the PRC, so the SW Pacific has become a wee bit more interesting. So now the Sollies (as we call it here) have declared that all foreign vessels are now banned, or more politely, prohibited from entering its ports as new procedures have to be approved. 
Surprise! Huawei have rolled in with the go ahead to erect 5G towers. There are other unsubtle indications; foreign journalists banned if they criticize China, postponed elections. It’s textbook stuff really.


----------



## AWP (Sep 3, 2022)

The US and AUS just failed International Logistics 101. Strong work!!!

If only there were a war to demonstrate the importance of the Solomon Islands in maintaining secure supply lanes to Australia...

Fucking twats.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 3, 2022)

It's a bit more involved than that though. China doesn't have any issue paying off heads of state- sorry, providing incentive- that the rest of us won't do. We and Aus invest a lot in education and aid for the region but we can't compete with sheer dollars. 

I think there will be a small coup in the Sollies in the future- the people don't appear happy about all this and the region isn't shy about letting people know when they're unhappy. 

It's not all doom and gloom though, PNG wants to negotiate a security treaty with Aus.


----------



## CQB (Sep 11, 2022)

@SpitfireV Agree totally vis a vie a monkey stomp. Malaita folks not happy.


----------



## pardus (Sep 16, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570783802389327878


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 16, 2022)

pardus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570783802389327878


I don’t understand this.  What fuel do you have to give servers?  Don’t you just … plug that shit into the wall?


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 16, 2022)

Probably backup generators.


----------



## AWP (Sep 16, 2022)

Absent any Boeings, I gotta call Illuminati on this building fire.

(35 tons of diesel is 1000 gallons, a not unreasonable amount for emergency generators)


----------



## CQB (Sep 19, 2022)

As the fire is half way up the building maybe there was a part of a floor set aside for lifts/power about mid level, not uncommon. But Mother Mary & Joseph, that’s horrid.


----------



## CQB (Sep 19, 2022)

CQB said:


> Meanwhile, in the Solomon Islands, not long ago their PM signed a five year security deal with the PRC, so the SW Pacific has become a wee bit more interesting. So now the Sollies (as we call it here) have declared that all foreign vessels are now banned, or more politely, prohibited from entering its ports as new procedures have to be approved.
> Surprise! Huawei have rolled in with the go ahead to erect 5G towers. There are other unsubtle indications; foreign journalists banned if they criticize China, postponed elections. It’s textbook stuff really.


To add, he was invited to the QE2 funeral, but sent his Attorney General as his representative. Fucker knows if he leaves he’s out of a job. Cunt.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 19, 2022)

He's shoring up a proper dictatorship these days.


----------



## CQB (Sep 19, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> He's shoring up a proper dictatorship these days.


I’m in two minds with the Sollies as I don’t have enough info currently but it looks to like its a port of call to resup rather than a full blown base.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 19, 2022)

CQB said:


> I’m in two minds with the Sollies as I don’t have enough info currently but it looks to like its a port of call to resup rather than a full blown base.


 That's my understanding. At the moment, anyway. It might turn into a Djibouti at some stage but who knows right now.


----------



## pardus (Sep 19, 2022)

Biden: US will defend Taiwan in Event of Invasion


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2022)

pardus said:


> Biden: US will defend Taiwan in Event of Invasion


Every time he says that, his administration walks it back.


----------



## AWP (Sep 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Every time he says that, his administration walks it back.



With the current press secretary, anything could happen. Defend Taiwan, paint all Chinese people magenta, draw 25 in Uno...we just don't know and neither does she. Ever.


----------



## Stretcher Jockey (Sep 19, 2022)

I’ll take Strategic Ambiguity for $600, Alex.


----------



## pardus (Sep 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Every time he says that, his administration walks it back.


It's just embarrassing, we look like a joke now, a joke with really good weapons.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 19, 2022)

Dude also thinks inflation doesn't exist.


----------



## pardus (Sep 19, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dude also thinks inflation doesn't exist.


Come On Reaction GIF by GIPHY News - Find & Share on GIPHY

<iframe src="Come On Reaction GIF by GIPHY News - Find & Share on GIPHY" width="480" height="287" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="



">via GIPHY</a></p>


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 19, 2022)

Biden and Mr. "The budget will balance itself..." Trudeau, make quite a pair.  North America is fucked.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2022)

AWP said:


> With the current press secretary, anything could happen. Defend Taiwan, paint all Chinese people magenta, draw 25 in Uno...we just don't know and neither does she. Ever.


I know hers is an extremely tough job, but she is really, really bad at it.  She has to literally read off a script and even then can't talk without a string of stammering and filler words.  There's GOT to be somebody better that the administration could put in that job.

(start at about 2:20)


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I know hers is an extremely tough job, but she is really, really bad at it.  She has to literally read off a script and even then can't talk without a string of stammering and filler words.  There's GOT to be somebody better that the administration could put in that job.
> 
> (start at about 2:20)


She's the right combination of poor, difficult to defend policy decisions and a poorly qualified individual that's unable to think and speak on her feet. I'm no fan of the administration but truly being objective, she's awful; the worst I've seen. She's an embarrassment.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 19, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> She's the right combination of poor, difficult to defend policy decisions and a poorly qualified individual that's unable to think and speak on her feet. I'm no fan of the administration but truly being objective, she's awful; the worst I've seen. She's an embarrassment.


I wonder if she thinks she's doing a good job.


----------



## Topkick (Sep 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if she thinks she's doing a good job.



180 k per year. Its a high pressure job and a good one deserves it, but I agree she's not very good. Maybe she'll get better at it. Hard to explain some of the shit happening these days.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Sep 19, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> *There's GOT to be somebody better that the administration could put in that job.*



I'm not sure anyone wants to be part of the sinking ship. The best thing that could happen to this administration is Donald Trump running against them. They're on the ropes and they know it. Very few people would want their credibility sunk by this job.


----------



## Topkick (Sep 19, 2022)

Intel Nerd said:


> I'm not sure anyone wants to be part of the sinking ship. The best thing that could happen to this administration is Donald Trump running against them. They're on the ropes and they know it. Very few people would want their credibility sunk by this job.


We will see her on CNN or another news channel soon.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 20, 2022)

Master stroke on China's end, putting a friendly puppet administration in place.

Stolen elections have consequences.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2022)

Intel Nerd said:


> I'm not sure anyone wants to be part of the sinking ship. The best thing that could happen to this administration is Donald Trump running against them. They're on the ropes and they know it. Very few people would want their credibility sunk by this job.


This kind of job is a ticket to book deals, plush college "chair" positions, bigtime talk show deals, and massive guest speaker fees.  I think there would be no end of people who are competent and enthusiastic about doing it.  I'd do it.  And unlike most other people in the public spotlight who do most other things, I think I would actually do a better job than the current incumbent in that position.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 24, 2022)




----------



## Blizzard (Sep 24, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> View attachment 40620


Not seeing rumors or reports of this anywhere else.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

I've seen one reference to it elsewhere but seems like rumour mongering to me.

Edit: I've seen a plausible theory this was exaggerated in order to get youtube subs...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 24, 2022)

Trending on Twitter...but I'm gonna need some proof.


----------



## Dame (Sep 24, 2022)

Sounds like BS to me too. Too many red flags in article (no pun intended).


----------



## pardus (Sep 24, 2022)

That is fake news, it was started by a journo in India, picked up by other Indian journos and started trending.


----------



## pardus (Sep 24, 2022)

China Is Running Covert Operations That Could Seriously Overwhelm Us

Sept. 14, 2022

by Nigel Inkster

Mr. Inkster is a former director of operations and intelligence at Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service.

In my three-decade career with Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, China was never seen as a major threat.

If we lost sleep at night, it was over more immediate challenges such as Soviet expansionism and transnational terrorism. China’s halting emergence from the chaotic Mao Zedong era and its international isolation after Chinese soldiers crushed pro-democracy demonstrations at Tiananmen Square in 1989 made it seem like an insular backwater.

It’s a different picture today. China has acquired global economic and diplomatic influence, enabling covert operations that extend well beyond traditional intelligence gathering, are growing in scale and threaten to overwhelm Western security agencies.

The U.S. and British domestic intelligence chiefs — the F.B.I. director, Christopher Wray, and the MI5 director general, Ken McCallum — signaled rising concern over this with an unprecedented joint news conference in July to warn of, as Mr. Wray put it, a “breathtaking” Chinese effort to steal technology and economic intelligence and to influence foreign politics in Beijing’s favor. The pace was quickening, they said, with the number of MI5 investigations into suspected Chinese activity having increased sevenfold since 2018.

The culture of the Chinese Communist Party has always had a clandestine nature. But as the party has become an even more dominant force in China since President Xi Jinping took power a decade ago, this has metastasized in state institutions. China can best be described as an intelligence state. The party views the business of acquiring and protecting secrets as an all-of-nation undertaking, to the point that rewards are offered to citizens for identifying possible spies and even schoolchildren are taught to recognize threats.

The West cannot fight fire with fire. Mobilizing government, society and economic and academic systems around competition with foreign foes the way China does would betray Western values. But leaders of democracies need to internalize the sea change that has taken place in China and ensure that engagement with Beijing is tempered by a hardheaded sense of reality.

The last state intelligence threat of comparable magnitude was posed by the Soviets. But the Soviet Union was isolated and impoverished. China’s successful economy, on the other hand, is a key engine of global growth, vastly increasing Beijing’s reach.

Barely visible on the world stage 30 years ago, China’s intelligence agencies are now powerful and well resourced. They are adept at exploiting the vulnerabilities of open societies and growing dependence on China’s economy to collect vast volumes of intelligence and data. Much of this takes place in the cyber domain, such as the 2015 hack of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, in which sensitive data on millions of federal employees was stolen. Chinese intelligence operatives also are present in state-owned enterprises, state media organizations and embassies and consulates. China’s consulate in Houston was closed by the Trump administration in 2020 after it served as a national hub for collecting high-tech intelligence.
But Chinese covert operations don’t stop there.

China’s Intelligence Law, which was enacted in 2017, required its citizens to assist intelligence agencies. But this legislation simply formalized a situation that had already been the norm. The wider China challenge comes from organizations and actors engaged in activities that may not conform to normal concepts of espionage.

Much of this is organized by the United Front Work Department, a party organization that seeks to co-opt well-placed members of Chinese diaspora communities — and whose scope has been expanded under Mr. Xi. China also endeavors to entice other Western citizens. A textbook case, exposed this year, involved a British politician whose office received substantial funding from an ethnic Chinese lawyer who thereby gained access to the British political establishment. One Chinese approach is to patiently cultivate relationships with politicians at the city or community level who show potential to rise to even higher office. Another is known as elite capture, in which influential Western corporate or government figures are offered lucrative sinecures or business opportunities in return for advocating policies that jibe with Chinese interests.

For China, this work is about survival. Technology and business intelligence must be acquired to keep China’s economy growing fast enough to prevent social instability. Mr. Xi has stressed the need to adopt “asymmetrical” means to catch up to the West technologically.

China may be ahead of the game now, but there are tools that Western intelligence and security agencies can bring into play, including providing staff members with the requisite language skills and an awareness of China and the workings of the Chinese Communist Party. But they need help.

Liberal democracies cannot just play defense; political leaders must champion greater investment in offensive intelligence collection capabilities and outreach programs that educate businesses, political organizations and other potential targets about their vulnerabilities. Systems also are needed to assess the national security implications of what otherwise might just seem normal commercial activities by Chinese companies or non-Chinese entities acting as fronts for Beijing.

New and more effective legislation that is attuned to the changing dynamics is vital. Britain is taking a step in the right direction. It looks set to enact a national security bill that would broaden the definition of espionage and take measures to create, as the Home Office put it, “a more challenging operating environment” for those acting as agents for foreign interests. Australia enacted similar legislation in 2018 to curb foreign covert political influence after concerns emerged over Chinese activity.

Countering Beijing poses a difficult balancing act, especially in countries with large Chinese diaspora populations. A case in point was the F.B.I.’s program for preventing theft of economic and scientific intelligence from U.S. universities, started by the Trump administration under the China Initiative. The program had a chilling effect on ethnic Chinese scientists and engineers who felt they were unjustly victimized. It was terminated this year.

Western countries shouldn’t be afraid to make bold moves. Actions like Britain’s mass expulsion of Soviet intelligence officers in 1971 after a surge of spying activity rarely, if ever, affect wider relations. Nor should the impact of espionage and subversion be overstated. The Soviet Union lost the Cold War not because of its intelligence operations — which were good — but because of the failure of its governing ideals.

The same may prove true with China. Western policymakers and intelligence services must innovate and adapt. But they also must ensure that strategies they employ honor the ideals of freedom, openness and lawfulness that pose the greatest threat to the Chinese party-state.

Nigel Inkster (@NigelInkster) is a former director of operations and intelligence for Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, from which he retired in 2006. He is the senior adviser for cybersecurity and China at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

Opinion | China Is Running Covert Operations That Could Seriously Overwhelm Us


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

That's a well put together op ed.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

Ref the coup thing again. I've done a little bit of digging and the general consensus in OSINT circles on the start of the rumour is a certain online journo who seemed to take three dots and mashed them all together then told people to go and subscribe to her youtube channel to find out the details. If it were a coup it would be the slowest moving coup in the world.


----------



## pardus (Sep 24, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Ref the coup thing again. I've done a little bit of digging and the general consensus in OSINT circles on the start of the rumour is a certain online journo who seemed to take three dots and mashed them all together then told people to go and subscribe to her youtube channel to find out the details. If it were a coup it would be the slowest moving coup in the world.



I'd have to go back and check, but I don't think it was "her" that started it, she may have just jumped on the bandwagon to get her name in lights. Regardless, she's an idiot.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

pardus said:


> I'd have to go back and check, but I don't think it was "her" that started it, she may have just jumped on the bandwagon to get her name in lights. Regardless, she's an idiot.



Keen to see what you've got .


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 24, 2022)

pardus said:


> China Is Running Covert Operations That Could Seriously Overwhelm Us
> 
> Sept. 14, 2022
> 
> ...


Politics gets in the way of protecting ones country I guess.


----------



## The Hate Ape (Sep 24, 2022)

pardus said:


> China Is Running Covert Operations That Could Seriously Overwhelm Us
> 
> Sept. 14, 2022
> 
> ...



Author writes well but forgets the biggest downfall of China is a symptom of having become an intelligence state: their people defect. Because many of the most successful state sponsored intelligence collection activities are run on western soil, there is an enormous incentive for potential/would-be defectors to phone up Uncle Sam (_Most just wanna stay in America because living in China comparatively sucks_). Because of the knowledge they hold, they're always a premium. 

They know this. We know this. China knows this.

As for the hardening of Western targets to intelligence collection - sure, you could definitely do well to beef up the house security but not much more than the effort necessary to make it strenuous on the opposition. Why force your enemy into becoming more creative? Just make it a _little difficult._ 

Allow them to stretch and strain their resources. 

Allow them within squares of assured control to either observe them or effect your will. 

Speculative thought: If China was doing so well they wouldn't have pounced onto Afghanistan. Like great, Afghanistan is rich in resources and minerals but have fun working with Taliban trying to get anything to work over there. Last I saw Taliban just crashed a black hawk or something trying to figure out how to fly it...


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

Li Qiaoming: General at center of China coup rumors on social media

More context.


----------



## pardus (Sep 24, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Keen to see what you've got .


Not much I'm afraid, I checked and people with a higher clearance than I who can see things I can't, say the source was from one person (Indian most likely), then through circular reporting created the buzz, then our friend Jennifer jumped on the bandwagon. The story has no basis in fact though, which is the main takeaway.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2022)

pardus said:


> Not much I'm afraid, I checked and people with a higher clearance than I who can see things I can't, say the source was from one person (Indian most likely), then through circular reporting created the buzz, then our friend Jennifer jumped on the bandwagon. The story has no basis in fact though, which is the main takeaway.



Interesting example of how a story can spread though, aye. 

I'm wondering if the military movement was due to the change of seasons. China does that a bit. Move everything before winter kind of thing so it would interesting to see if there are other movements around the same time in other places. I have a feeling the Beijing guard is rotated a reasonable amount too to stop them getting too comfortable with the locals but I'd have to dig into the recesses of my brain to find out if I've remembered that correctly.


----------



## pardus (Sep 25, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Interesting example of how a story can spread though, aye.
> 
> I'm wondering if the military movement was due to the change of seasons. China does that a bit. Move everything before winter kind of thing so it would interesting to see if there are other movements around the same time in other places. I have a feeling the Beijing guard is rotated a reasonable amount too to stop them getting too comfortable with the locals but I'd have to dig into the recesses of my brain to find out if I've remembered that correctly.


Word on the street is that the movements were a coincidence/normal, with a suggestion that it may even be part of preparations for the October 1st National Day.


----------



## pardus (Sep 25, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573894063702810625


----------



## pardus (Sep 25, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574101538271891464


----------



## pardus (Sep 25, 2022)

Mass Cancellation of Flights Across China; Reasons Unclear


----------



## CQB (Sep 26, 2022)

pardus said:


> China Is Running Covert Operations That Could Seriously Overwhelm Us
> 
> Sept. 14, 2022
> 
> ...


Check out Silent Invasion by Clive Hamilton. The PRC spat chips when it was published.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2022)

Google "Chinese police station's" and there's similar stories around the world.  

FIRST READING: Why Beijing is allegedly opening police stations on Canadian soil


----------



## pardus (Sep 29, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Google "Chinese police station's" and there's similar stories around the world.
> 
> FIRST READING: Why Beijing is allegedly opening police stations on Canadian soil


Is this true?
I know that US immigration is stationed in certain foreign countries (New Zealand for example), meaning you go through US immigration in New Zealand, you’re legally entering the USA before you get on the aircraft, an interesting set up. @SpitfireV


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm having a look into it. Some of it is a bit strange.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> Is this true?
> I know that US immigration is stationed in certain foreign countries (New Zealand for example), meaning you go through US immigration in New Zealand, you’re legally entering the USA before you get on the aircraft, an interesting set up.



It's in all major news sources in Canada.   Everything I've found it's legitimate.   Found this Irish story but there's a paywall that 12ft can't get past.

Why is there a Chinese police outpost on Dublin’s Capel Street?

Here's the NGO report.

230,000 Chinese "persuaded to return" from abroad, China to establish Extraterritoriality


----------



## pardus (Sep 29, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> It's in all major news sources in Canada.   Everything I've found it's legitimate.   Found this Irish story but there's a paywall that 12ft can't get past.
> 
> Why is there a Chinese police outpost on Dublin’s Capel Street?


Any word from your govt as to why they’re doing this? WTF Ireland?


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> Is this true?
> I know that US immigration is stationed in certain foreign countries (New Zealand for example), meaning you go through US immigration in New Zealand, you’re legally entering the USA before you get on the aircraft, an interesting set up. @SpitfireV



That's news to me. They certainly do the initial immigration stuff when you check in but I haven't heard of the US being here. They could be though but they're not in my region. We used to send immigration to high risk countries previously like South Africa when they could get a visa on arrival.


----------



## pardus (Sep 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> That's news to me. They certainly do the initial immigration stuff when you check in but I haven't heard of the US being here. They could be though but they're not in my region. We used to send immigration to high risk countries previously like South Africa when they could get a visa on arrival.


What do you mean the initial immigration stuff? I went through US customs the last time I left Auckland circa 2019, was that an initial check and not the full entry? My US passport wasn’t stamped going to and from in either country so I don’t recall the exact details.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> Any word from your govt as to why they’re doing this? WTF Ireland?


Well...they have some in the US too...that creeps me out!

China has opened overseas police stations in US and Canada to monitor Chinese citizens: report


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> What do you mean the initial immigration stuff? I went through US customs the last time I left Auckland circa 2019, was that an initial check and not the full entry? My US passport wasn’t stamped going to and from in either country so I don’t recall the exact details.



Whem you check in they do initial checks then to make sure you're not a banned person, meet visa requirements and give permission to board.

We don't stamp anyone on the way in now, haven't done on the way out for at least 15 years.

I don't know if that US person you saw was a trial or what. I'm not saying it didn't happen mind just I hadn't heard of it.

Edit: I'm finding out from a more authoritative source than I am.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> Any word from your govt as to why they’re doing this? WTF Ireland?



I don't expect anything but non answers and bullshit from these clowns.  That's Trudeau's favourite country besides Cuba.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Whem you check in they do initial checks then to make sure you're not a banned person, meet visa requirements and give permission to board.
> 
> We don't stamp anyone on the way in now, haven't done on the way out for at least 15 years.
> 
> ...



Stamps are generally only a thing if it's a hard visa.  If it's an ETA there are no stamps.


----------



## AWP (Sep 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> Is this true?
> I know that US immigration is stationed in certain foreign countries (New Zealand for example), meaning you go through US immigration in New Zealand, you’re legally entering the USA before you get on the aircraft, an interesting set up. @SpitfireV



The UAE does that for certain flights direct to the US. It's not only good for those flying, but those at the destination airport as well. You aren't dumping jets into the customs queue in Dulles or wherever and clogging an already backlogged system. Personally, I'd rather arrive a little early to clear customs on departure rather than deplane after 14 hours only to stand in line to have my passport stamped.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Stamps are generally only a thing if it's a hard visa.  If it's an ETA there are no stamps.



Those are different things. An ETA gives you permission to apply for the visa on your arrival. I'm making the assumption you're talking about what you guys call ESTA.

I don't know what you're on about re stamps.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

But we can talk about visas all day if we really want to and believe me I can.

Back to the Chinese police. Making the assumpton it's true I doubt they're working under diplomatic or consular otherwise wouldn't you have the office there? Why would you even give out addresses if people can't visit or you're not working out of there? Why is this a provincial PSB initiative and not the federal level? The whole thing is strange.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Those are different things. An ETA gives you permission to apply for the visa on your arrival. I'm making the assumption you're talking about what you guys call ESTA.
> 
> I don't know what you're on about re stamps.


Electronic Travel Authorization's are effectively what used to be tourism visas.   <90 Days. When you travel on an ETA, your passport doesn't get stamped. You just said you don't stamp anyone on the way in, I'm not so sure.  I think it depends on what they're traveling on.  Unless you're telling me you're a customs agent? US Citizens don't get stamped on the way back in, or at least that hasn't been the case since 2019.  I'd have to look at my old passport to see if we did in the late 00's and early 2010s.  In the US you cannot apply for a visa with an ETA. If you're trying to get work authorization from another visa, that's usually through a B1. Which allows you to enter the US and effectively squat until the full work visa is approved.  But actual work on that can get you smited by USCIS.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> But we can talk about visas all day if we really want to and believe me I can.
> 
> Back to the Chinese police. Making the assumpton it's true I doubt they're working under diplomatic or consular otherwise wouldn't you have the office there? Why would you even give out addresses if people can't visit or you're not working out of there? Why is this a provincial PSB initiative and not the federal level? The whole thing is strange.



Besides Russia, China was always the number one threat when we trained domestically.  There's a massive Chinese expat community here, some that are very vocal against the CCP.  

The CCP have been active here for year's, we just happen to have a current government that isn't really active in pissing anyone anyone.   Even if they are actively seeking out and on the light side, harassing expats. 

Canadian government report accuses China of widespread campaign of espionage, manipulation - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Besides Russia, China was always the number one threat when we trained domestically.  There's a massive Chinese expat community here, some that are very vocal against the CCP.
> 
> The CCP have been active here for year's, we just happen to have a current government that isn't really active in pissing anyone anyone.   Even if they are actively seeking out and on the light side, harassing expats.
> 
> Canadian government report accuses China of widespread campaign of espionage, manipulation - National | Globalnews.ca


Yup I'm well aware of all of that but this specific thing is just strange is all I'm saying.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Yup I'm well aware of all of that but this specific thing is just strange is all I'm saying.



Nothing they do is strange in their world.  Strange to most normies, sure but nothing surprises me with them anymore.  They are literally making island's to expand their territory.  They are in a real life video game.  Plus they've already stolen all the tech, all they have, is fucking with those lucky enough to escape their bullshit.


----------



## pardus (Sep 29, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Electronic Travel Authorization's are effectively what used to be tourism visas.   <90 Days. When you travel on an ETA, your passport doesn't get stamped.


I'm assuming you're talking about the USA correct? Because I know that is not true in many other countries, my passport attests to that, up to and including this year.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 30, 2022)

pardus said:


> I'm assuming you're talking about the USA correct? Because I know that is not true in many other countries, my passport attests to that, up to and including this year.



Sure, I suppose. But we also have an Electronic Travel History that you can access as long as you have internet.  Which isn't the same in Canada...where you have to send a request for that. 

So dunno, guess I like stamps in the passport.


----------



## pardus (Oct 3, 2022)

China’s “Sharp Sword” Stealth Drone


----------



## pardus (Oct 3, 2022)

I think it’s probably a little early, but…


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577045029175975936


----------



## CQB (Oct 5, 2022)

Some interesting developments & not before time. That's some good leadership from Mark Brown as the PRC looted & pillaged his little country a while ago & they cottoned on pretty quickly. I'm pretty surprised at the Sollies about face though.

Pacific countries reveal why the US achieved a region-wide agreement where Beijing failed

Just an observation; the reason that the PRC was so successful in Africa was that the nation states that it approached to extract resources from were told that China wouldn't interfere in their internal affairs, (the100 years of Humiliation thing) but the ruling elite would get a percentage of whatever was being exploited. With the US there, it was a case of, 'we can assist you but you you need free & fair elections, human rights charter etc.' and that for the US was very hard to counter, so the US lost out. But it's the reverse in the Pacific as all those Pacific states already have elected officials & reasonably stable governance, so for the PRC it looks like a fail.


----------



## pardus (Oct 5, 2022)

CQB said:


> Some interesting developments & not before time. That's some good leadership from Mark Brown as the PRC looted & pillaged his little country a while ago & they cottoned on pretty quickly. I'm pretty surprised at the Sollies about face.
> 
> Pacific countries reveal why the US achieved a region-wide agreement where Beijing failed


Do we still have peacekeepers in the Solomans?


----------



## CQB (Oct 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> Do we still have peacekeepers in the Solomans?


No, don't think so, they folded tents a while ago.

RAMSI – Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands


----------



## CQB (Oct 5, 2022)

CQB said:


> No, don't think so, they folded tents a while ago.
> 
> RAMSI – Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands


Edit; just remembered there was a contingent who went recently for something. China sent some riot police & goodies as well.

Australia rejects claim its security forces in Solomon Islands were told not to protect Chinese-built buildings


----------



## pardus (Oct 5, 2022)

CQB said:


> No, don't think so, they folded tents a while ago.
> 
> RAMSI – Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands



Yeah I know that one ended, but I know they deployed again last year due to rioting etc...

Solomon Islands unrest: New Zealand to send dozens of peacekeepers


----------



## CQB (Oct 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> Yeah I know that one ended, but I know they deployed again last year due to rioting etc...
> 
> Solomon Islands unrest: New Zealand to send dozens of peacekeepers


Yep, got it & it led to Sogavare paying for votes...cash from where I wonder...DOH!


----------



## pardus (Oct 5, 2022)

CQB said:


> Yep, got it & it led to Sogavare paying for votes...cash from where I wonder...DOH!


Fuck me


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 12, 2022)

Neat little blurb on China's demographic collapse and tie ins to energy shortages due to Russo Ukraine War.


----------



## CQB (Oct 14, 2022)

Great analysis IMO, the tremble & obey thing hasn’t worked too well along with their push into the western pacific & their hitherto Wolf Warrior diplomacy.


----------



## pardus (Oct 14, 2022)

I really like Peter Zeihan's work.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 15, 2022)

pardus said:


> I really like Peter Zeihan's work.


Samesies. I think @Diamondback 2/2 shared one of Zeihan's presentations here back in 2016-17. Definitely opened my eyes to the macro effects of other countries actions.


----------



## pardus (Oct 15, 2022)

Seems like a pretty significant move

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581394908484493312

“To put it simply, Biden forced all Americans working in China to choose between two options: either resign immediately, or retire from the United States.

Then all the American executives and engineers of all semiconductor manufacturing companies in China resigned collectively on this day - China's semiconductor manufacturing was directly paralyzed overnight.”


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 15, 2022)

pardus said:


> choose between two options: either resign immediately, or retire from the United States.



What does retirement from the United States mean?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 15, 2022)

Kaldak said:


> What does retirement from the United States mean?


State said their citizenship would be revoked.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 15, 2022)

They can do that if they're dual citizen or green card but I think they'd be hard pressed if US were their only citizenship.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 16, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> They can do that if they're dual citizen or green card but I think they'd be hard pressed if US were their only citizenship.


Normally I'd agree with you, but as messed up as the Government and Judicial system have become, who knows how they'd rule.


----------



## Salt USMC (Oct 16, 2022)

Damn, Joe Brandon is so beholden to Chinese interests that he….crushed their semiconductor manufacturing industry?  That doesn’t seem right….


----------



## AWP (Oct 16, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> Damn, Joe Brandon is so beholden to Chinese interests that he….crushed their semiconductor manufacturing industry?  That doesn’t seem right….



I can explain it, but I don't think you're ready for the truth.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 16, 2022)

Check to the big guy bounced.


----------



## Salt USMC (Oct 17, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Check to the big guy bounced.


Inflation is hitting everyone hard it seems


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> Inflation is hitting everyone hard it seems


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

So this is fucking huge! If this is true, this is about as significant as bringing down the USSR. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

I did a little further reading on this subject because I thought it was pretty interesting.  Here's what CNBC had to say about it *(link*).


pardus said:


> So this is fucking huge! If this is true, this is about as significant as bringing down the USSR. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.


Very interesting. Thank  you for posting that.

I heard about this subject yesterday.  I don't know much about it, but I'm going to offer some opinions in the interests of furthering this discussion.
I'm going to assume that everything in the video is true.  If it is, then yes this is a big deal to China.

...in the short term.

The very basic idea of markets is "supply and demand."  If an economic juggernaut like China has a demand for those chips, then someone will supply them.  If this is as big a deal as people are trying to make it, then China will probably just start producing them in-house.  With all of the intellectual property they pirated from us over the years, I think it's naïve for us to think they can't make this stuff.  They haven't been, most likely because it was cheaper to pay someone else to do it, which they concentrated on their competitive advantages.  I think China will just direct their state-controlled industries to start churning this stuff out.  Heck they probably already stole all the plans they need.  And aren't they the ones who are producing or (from AFrica) controlling the rare earth metals theses products need in the first place?

Additionally, China's market is enormous.  If China is not buying boatloads of high end chips, well then, probably no one is buying the ones that were previously made for China.  That's going to do two things:  first, it's going to affect the bottom lines of both big tech companies and the wealthy investors who hold stock in them.  That's going to create pressure on the Biden Administration to make this a short-term situation and flood the market with these chips, which is going to drive down price.

There's an International Relations theory called "Trade Expectations."  The oversimplified explanation of this theory is that the less nations trade with each other, the more likely war is.  Especially if it's something that a nation feels is necessary for its survival, like oil, or prosperity like... computer chips.  So, this action might make a splash in the short term, but in my very-unknowledegable-about-this-topic opinion, it won't have a very negative impact on China for very long, and might in fact make war with China more likely over time.


----------



## CQB (Oct 17, 2022)

Nice catch mate, Trump did the same & crippled ZTE briefly. The were back in business courtesy of Xi requesting the supply of chips to ZTE recommence as a condition of assisting in the North Korea talks (remember them)? As the second article points out, this is a continuation of the trade war from 2018.

China Trade War: Trump Export Controls Set To Slam Chip Sector

China, US and the Semiconductor War. All you Need to Know


----------



## Jaknight (Oct 17, 2022)

China's armed forces recruiting dozens of British ex military pilots in 'threat to UK interests'


----------



## CQB (Oct 18, 2022)

Bad karma, not for you @Jaknight but for the information.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 18, 2022)

It’s surprising that there isn’t already a law stating you can’t work for a foreign military without prior approval, and more importantly a competing foreign military.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 18, 2022)

This isn't surprising.  There's a significant amount of Canadian service members that still think China is our friend. I'd be curious to see how many they recruited from us.

 Xi Jinping's speech to the CCP Congress is all we need to know about where they stand.  I expect 2023 the year they invade Taiwan and the world gets really fucking hot.

Xi won't rule out force to take Taiwan & mentions security 89 times in speech


----------



## AWP (Oct 18, 2022)

Just say Nazis are on Taiwan. Problem solved.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Just say Nazis are on Taiwan. Problem solved.


I got you, boo.

Nazi imagery from Taiwan stems from ignorance, not hate, analysts say


----------



## Jaknight (Oct 18, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> It’s surprising that there isn’t already a law stating you can’t work for a foreign military without prior approval, and more importantly a competing foreign military.


Does the USA have any laws like that ?


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 18, 2022)

Jaknight said:


> Does the USA have any laws like that ?


Perhaps Title 18 US Code 953?


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 18, 2022)

I don't think the Logan Act applies; these individuals are not trying to negotiate for the government behind the government's back.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 18, 2022)

CQB said:


> Nice catch mate, Trump did the same & crippled ZTE briefly. The were back in business courtesy of Xi requesting the supply of chips to ZTE recommence as a condition of assisting in the North Korea talks (remember them)? As the second article points out, this is a continuation of the trade war from 2018.
> 
> China Trade War: Trump Export Controls Set To Slam Chip Sector
> 
> China, US and the Semiconductor War. All you Need to Know


More on this topic from  Thomas Friedman:
Thomas Friedman: We are suddenly taking on China and Russia at the same time


----------



## CQB (Oct 18, 2022)

Time to buy stock in your local gas company. 

China stopped LNG exports to Europe: report


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 18, 2022)

CQB said:


> Time to buy stock in your local gas company.
> 
> China stopped LNG exports to Europe: report



And they were here begging for LNG and Trudeau all but laughed in their faces.  We should already have pipelines to all three coasts and more to the US.  This is what we get for buying from dictators and ignoring our own capacity.


----------



## AWP (Oct 18, 2022)

If we invaded Iraq for oil, that didn’t work out very well.


----------



## CQB (Oct 18, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> And they were here begging for LNG and Trudeau all but laughed in their faces.  We should already have pipelines to all three coasts and more to the US.  This is what we get for buying from dictators and ignoring our own capacity.


It’s happening here as well as our east coast has plenty of product but the policy is to leave it in the ground & what is produced is sold OS. Western Australia has a reserve capacity mechanism to look after their local grid so they’re ok, but the eastern states gas goes offshore instead, with no reserve capacity in place. It’s slowly dawning on all & sundry just how expensive renewables will be.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> If we invaded Iraq for oil, that didn’t work out very well.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 27, 2022)

The guy who Xi Jinping succeeded as president was unceremoniously kicked out of their politburo shindig. Apparently Hu and his son have been scrubbed from the Chinese version of the internet. 







Spoiler: Hu Jintao wiki blurb



Hu Jintao - Wikipedia



Blurb about Xi, how he has been governing, and why. Think Downfall. Has been mentioned in other Zeihan posts, reference to this is in the energy thread.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 27, 2022)

Allegations that Hunter Biden was worked by Chinese spy to get Joe Biden to run for president:

Hunter Biden’s ‘flirty’ Chinese secretary who urged ‘Uncle Joe’ to run is new GOP focus

American military pilot that taught aviation in China, detained in Australia for undisclosed charges:

Former US pilot who worked in China arrested in Australia


----------



## Dame (Oct 27, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> Allegations that Hunter Biden was worked by Chinese spy to get Joe Biden to run for president:
> 
> Hunter Biden’s ‘flirty’ Chinese secretary who urged ‘Uncle Joe’ to run is new GOP focus
> 
> ...


Saw the story about the pilot on The Drive's WarZone. I actually ran across it while reading one about the Chinese study on setting off a 10 megaton nuke in Earth's orbit. Very good article.
Chinese Nuclear Anti-Satellite Study Highlights Problem Of Countering Starlink-Like Constellations


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 27, 2022)

Dame said:


> Saw the story about the pilot on The Drive's WarZone. I actually ran across it while reading one about the Chinese study on setting off a 10 megaton nuke in Earth's orbit. Very good article.
> Chinese Nuclear Anti-Satellite Study Highlights Problem Of Countering Starlink-Like Constellations


I love me some WarZone. They tend to be on the leading edge of aviation news in particular.


----------



## pardus (Oct 30, 2022)

New Zealand disgracing itself…


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586437139318947840


----------



## AWP (Oct 30, 2022)

“FVEY”…lol


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 30, 2022)

AWP said:


> “FVEY”…lol


I had that exact same thought when I read about this development.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 31, 2022)

Doesn't surprise me one bit.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 31, 2022)

pardus said:


> New Zealand disgracing itself…
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586437139318947840


Remember when I said New Zealand is trying their very best to get kicked out of "Five Eyes", yes I'm not using the damn acronym.  Well quit arguing with me lol! (you know who you be)



Marauder06 said:


> I had that exact same thought when I read about this development.



Jacinda loves the Chinese coin. Clearly.


----------



## pardus (Nov 1, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Remember when I said New Zealand is trying their very best to get kicked out of "Five Eyes", yes I'm not using the damn acronym.  Well quit arguing with me lol! (you know who you be)
> 
> 
> 
> Jacinda loves the Chinese coin. Clearly.


🤷‍♂️

Jacinda is a POS, always has been, always will be. Unfortunately NZ is a land of sheep who blindly follow (for the most part) wherever the govt leads them.


----------



## BloodStripe (Nov 4, 2022)

First COVID, now rockets falling from space. What’s next?

China's falling Long March 5B rocket stage spotted from space (photos)


----------



## Totentanz (Nov 4, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> First COVID, now rockets falling from space. What’s next?
> 
> China's falling Long March 5B rocket stage spotted from space (photos)



Well... it's not really a (just) "now" thing.  This is the fourth time they've done this - out of four Long March 5B launches starting in 2020 - and clearly don't GAF about knowingly losing control of several tons of equipment moving at whatever terminal velocity it achieves.

May 2020: Bridenstine Criticizes Uncontrolled Long March 5B Stage Reentry – Parabolic Arc
May 2021: Long March 5B falls into Indian Ocean after world follows rocket reentry - SpaceNews
July 2022: China’s Big Long March 5B Rocket Fell Back To Earth While Out Of Control


----------



## BloodStripe (Nov 4, 2022)

Totentanz said:


> Well... it's not really a (just) "now" thing.  This is the fourth time they've done this - out of four Long March 5B launches starting in 2020 - and clearly don't GAF about knowingly losing control of several tons of equipment moving at whatever terminal velocity it achieves.
> 
> May 2020: Bridenstine Criticizes Uncontrolled Long March 5B Stage Reentry – Parabolic Arc
> May 2021: Long March 5B falls into Indian Ocean after world follows rocket reentry - SpaceNews
> July 2022: China’s Big Long March 5B Rocket Fell Back To Earth While Out Of Control


I had totally forgotten about those.


----------



## AWP (Nov 4, 2022)

Long March? More like Short Launch.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 4, 2022)

Sad Fang Fang noises.


----------



## pardus (Nov 4, 2022)

It was just a matter of time before China jumped into the PMC game big time IMO. 

China private security companies making a BRI killing


----------



## AWP (Nov 4, 2022)

pardus said:


> It was just a matter of time before China jumped into the PMC game big time IMO.
> 
> China private security companies making a BRI killing



LOL @ anyone thinking a Chinese entity is a "private" company.


----------



## pardus (Nov 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> LOL @ anyone thinking a Chinese entity is a "private" company.


Yup! Apparently they downsized their military and about 1 hour later all those laid off were now PMCs, totally separate to the govt. Seems legit. 🤔🤡


----------



## JedisonsDad (Nov 7, 2022)

Looks like things are escalating.

46 Chinese warplanes, 4 warships tracked around Taiwan | Taiwan News | 2022-11-06 21:39:00


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 7, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> Looks like things are escalating.
> 
> 46 Chinese warplanes, 4 warships tracked around Taiwan | Taiwan News | 2022-11-06 21:39:00


They're always testing. Ex.:
China sends 30 warplanes into Taiwan air defence zone


----------



## JedisonsDad (Nov 7, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> They're always testing. Ex.:
> China sends 30 warplanes into Taiwan air defence zone


I just thought the one article was interesting for two reasons. The first being that it triggered an alert on first alert, which none previous have. And second, the wording of “deployed air defense missile systems”


----------



## Gunz (Nov 8, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> I just thought the one article was interesting for two reasons. The first being that it triggered an alert on first alert, which none previous have. And second, the wording of “deployed air defense missile systems”



I don’t think we’re going to have to wait for 2049 to see a dramatic turn in the history of Taiwan.



pardus said:


> Yup! Apparently they downsized their military and about 1 hour later all those laid off were now PMCs, totally separate to the govt. Seems legit. 🤔🤡



Private sector in China means the Ministry of State Security is probably running your tech, accounting and HR departments. The upside is you always have some spooky pals on foreign business trips.


----------



## Dame (Nov 8, 2022)

This...
Extremely Ominous Warning About China From US Strategic Command Chief​Admiral Richard says “the big one” with China is coming and the “ship is slowly sinking” in terms of U.S. deterrence.
Extremely Ominous Warning About China From US Strategic Command Chief

Truth, folks.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 8, 2022)

Dame said:


> This...
> Extremely Ominous Warning About China From US Strategic Command Chief​Admiral Richard says “the big one” with China is coming and the “ship is slowly sinking” in terms of U.S. deterrence.
> Extremely Ominous Warning About China From US Strategic Command Chief
> 
> Truth, folks.


Where were these guys when we were wasting lives in Ass-crackistan?
Biden just killed/delayed most of his modernization plans, so I wonder if this is actually a plea for money?


----------



## Dame (Nov 8, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Where were these guys when we were wasting lives in Ass-crackistan?
> Biden just killed/delayed most of his modernization plans, so I wonder if this is actually a plea for money?


More like a dire warning to the folks who think the climate needs more money than defense.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 8, 2022)

Dame said:


> More like a dire warning to the folks who think the climate needs more money than defense.


Could be, but China owns POTUS, Senior Dems and Senior RINO's.  Eventually war comes, and we experience a modern TF Smith.  What happens afterwards determines our fate.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2022)

Nothing to see here, just China interfering in Canadian elections, "owning" political candidates and that's on top of the police stations.

Canadian intelligence warned PM Trudeau that China covertly funded 2019 election candidates: Sources - National | Globalnews.ca

" China taking ‘aggressive’ steps to gut Canada’s democracy, warns Trudeau


----------



## BloodStripe (Nov 9, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Where were these guys when we were wasting lives in Ass-crackistan?
> Biden just killed/delayed most of his modernization plans, so I wonder if this is actually a plea for money?


Congress controls the purse. Congress continues to push money to a shitty ship (LCS) and will continue to do so until more FFG(x) are ready to be built. Blame the HASC and the SASC for this one.


----------



## AWP (Nov 9, 2022)

The LCS was bad before the first one hit the water and it aged like milk.


----------



## BloodStripe (Nov 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> The LCS was bad before the first one hit the water and it aged like milk.



I get why they refuse to let the shipyard shut down, but they should have killed it a very long time ago and replaced it with something.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 14, 2022)

Another arrest.

RCMP arrests Hydro-Quebec employee on espionage charges


----------



## AWP (Nov 14, 2022)

"RCMP shoots traitor in the face, feeds body to polar bears because fuck that guy's ancestors" is the headline I want to see.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 14, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Another arrest.
> 
> RCMP arrests Hydro-Quebec employee on espionage charges


$5.00 says he has family ties to the mainland.  "Back in the day" folks like him would not have gotten access because of family ties, Bill Clinton changed that shit.


----------



## pardus (Nov 15, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592202219499450370


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 15, 2022)

Finally, something I can get behind- massive unrest all across China.


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Finally, something I can get behind- massive unrest all across China.



Between this and Iran, my Christmas/Chanukah/Kwanzaa/Festivus wish is that one of these governments implodes.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 15, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Between this and Iran, my Christmas/Chanukah/Kwanzaa/Festivus wish is that one *ALL of these governments implodes.*


Fixed it for you. If you're asking the big 4 for a present, might as well swing for the fences. I also agree.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Remember when Trump was trying to gut and destroy TikTok. It's too bad that didn't get done.



FBI ‘extremely concerned’ by TikTok influence operations

You don't say?


----------



## Kraut783 (Nov 19, 2022)

well...this isn't new....below from August 2020...

"Last week, President Trump seriously escalated his threats toward the social media app TikTok, which he has accused of posing a threat to national security."

Do you really need to worry about your security on TikTok? Here’s what we know.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 20, 2022)

In other news, our tax dollars have funded a pronoun neutral million dollar study determining water is wet!







What a bunch of maroons.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 20, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Finally, something I can get behind- massive unrest all across China.


Que?


----------



## pardus (Nov 23, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595578018931830784


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 23, 2022)

Riot cops in white?


----------



## pardus (Nov 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Riot cops in white?


I honestly don’t know, but I doubt it, they lack the equipment that I’d expect for riot cops, they look more like covid enforcers of some description, they are wearing what appears to be hazmat suits.


----------



## CQB (Nov 26, 2022)

The protest takes an interesting turn. 

Chinese are criticizing zero-Covid — in language censors don’t seem to understand


----------



## pardus (Nov 27, 2022)

China Is Starting to Really Regret Its Friendship With Russia


----------



## CQB (Nov 27, 2022)

Put simply, the Ukraine was Chinas “Oh fuck” moment.


----------



## AWP (Nov 28, 2022)

China can eat a dick. Hopefully the West wakes up and moves on from China. Give child slave labor in other countries a chance, Apple!


----------



## Gunz (Nov 28, 2022)

pardus said:


> China Is Starting to Really Regret Its Friendship With Russia



_"...China’s bet was that the world’s liberal democracies were on the wane, incapable of collective mobilization in the face of a common challenge. Instead, Beijing was watching the country that was supposed to be its great strategic asset helping to bring about precisely the coalitions and instruments of economic warfare it had sought to prevent..."_

War...what is it good for, absolutely nothin, say it again. Especially for business. And the heart and soul of China _is_ Business.


----------



## pardus (Nov 28, 2022)

Gunz said:


> _"...China’s bet was that the world’s liberal democracies were on the wane, incapable of collective mobilization in the face of a common challenge. Instead, Beijing was watching the country that was supposed to be its great strategic asset helping to bring about precisely the coalitions and instruments of economic warfare it had sought to prevent..."_
> 
> War...what is it good for, absolutely nothin, say it again. Especially for business. And the heart and soul of China _is_ Business.


Well that's one of the major problems with Xi, he is moving away from the business model and going back to the Maoist roots of the party, that is very concerning. I'd like to think that there are enough senior CCP members that disagree with him that we'll see a reversal of his ideas, but Xi has removing those business advocates so we shall see.


----------



## AWP (Nov 28, 2022)

pardus said:


> Well that's one of the major problems with Xi, he is moving away from the business model and going back to the Maoist roots of the party, that is very concerning. I'd like to think that there are enough senior CCP members that disagree with him that we'll see a reversal of his ideas, but Xi has removing those business advocates so we shall see.



China's problem, one it has managed well for years but the cracks are showing, is it wants the control of Communism and the largesse of Capitalism. If the business side of the government can remain fat and enriched, they won't care. If Xi starts affecting their bottom line, that could cause problems.


----------



## pardus (Nov 29, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597574855075205123


----------



## AWP (Nov 29, 2022)

I know this thought is probably bad for the world, but I kind of want to see China have a full on civil war.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 29, 2022)

pardus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597574855075205123


We’re all watching that Squid Game-esque bullshit like it could absolutely not happen here. 

One thing that my own COVID experience taught me is that it absolutely can.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 29, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Que?


This is what I was referring to. It's been happening for a LONG time, and the lid on this has been bubbling for a bit. We will see how much information gets out. 



pardus said:


> I honestly don’t know, but I doubt it, they lack the equipment that I’d expect for riot cops, they look more like covid enforcers of some description, they are wearing what appears to be hazmat suits.


Colloquially called "the Big White". They're "medical professionals" in the same way that "antifa" is an ideology and not an actual centralized force of people.


----------



## pardus (Nov 29, 2022)

China warns of 'crackdown' after weekend of widespread zero-Covid protests


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 29, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> This is what I was referring to. It's been happening for a LONG time, and the lid on this has been bubbling for a bit. We will see how much information gets out.
> 
> 
> Colloquially called "the Big White". They're "medical professionals" in the same way that "antifa" is an ideology and not an actual centralized force of people.


They're a useful arm of the centralized state, much like antifa is here, just with more transparency and uniformity.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 30, 2022)

pardus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597574855075205123



Guessing that was probably Hong-Kong because the riot-wagon/bus in the background had "Police" spelled out in English on it's front bumper mounted people-mover.


----------



## AWP (Nov 30, 2022)

World: We are outraged at the treatment of Uighurs and China's COVID protocols.
China: We have iPhones and Nikes.
World: We are outraged at...Elon Musk's handling of Twitter.


----------



## pardus (Nov 30, 2022)

Jack Ma, the billionaire founder of Alibaba, disappeared from public view in 2020. He's been living in Tokyo for the past 6 months, a new report says.


----------



## CQB (Nov 30, 2022)

A couple of issues have arisen lately. So the Great Withdrawal continues here in Oz as the big hitters folded their tents about 5 years ago & now it's the turn of the hoi polloi. Mainland Chinese have bought apartments in Sydney & Melbourne over time as a hedge against anything untoward occurring in the PRC. The trick was to get someone here to buy it, though everyone knew where the money was coming from. The front person would do the necessary things with the bodies corporate to not draw any heat. There's the realization that due to the real estate market on the mainland is basically shaky, those with an OS asset have been forced to sell, sometimes selling at a loss. 
The second & more pressing issue is rare earths. We, along with other nations were quite content to 'dig & ship' minerals such as lithium & cobalt to the PRC for processing into batteries etc. The miners here are now in a scramble to process those rare earth minerals onshore instead of in the glorious PRC.  The reason is the stranglehold Russia has on European energy which is an issue blind Freddy could understand. As the PRC not only has a great reserve of rare earths but the processing plants as well, they almost caught us with our collective pants down & the scramble is on to builld processing plants of our own. But our government was quite OK with the relationship we had with China & hats off to them; lazy policy Vs a 30 year strategy. In short, Xi, you should have moved more slowly as Deng advised.


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## pardus (Nov 30, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597881146456805377


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## pardus (Dec 2, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598670578390646784


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## Muppet (Dec 2, 2022)

pardus said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598670578390646784



But, I phones rock! Elon is a racist! Funny how, potato in chief has not, at least what I've heard, commented on the patriot protests there.


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## RackMaster (Dec 2, 2022)

Like China gives a fuck.  They'll just move them to new secret locations.

Canada issues ‘cease and desist’ warning to China over ‘police stations’ in Ottawa


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 3, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Like China gives a fuck.  They'll just move them to new secret locations.
> 
> Canada issues ‘cease and desist’ warning to China over ‘police stations’ in Ottawa




Just roll them up on a SWAT raid...

ETA:

Looks like a great time. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598880479176163328


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## pardus (Dec 5, 2022)

For those inclined 

An Exploratory Analysis of the Chinese Hypersonics Research Landscape


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## RackMaster (Dec 6, 2022)

Two more 'police' centres run by Chinese authorities found in Canada: report


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## pardus (Dec 7, 2022)

Federal government awarded RCMP contract to firm with ties to China


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## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2022)

Canada never learned from the destruction of Nortel.   Between Nortel and Blackberry, we could have been a technology powerhouse.  

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-chinese-hack-kill-canada-s-greatest-tech-company-1.1459269

BlackBerry uncovers China-backed hacking campaign


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## CQB (Dec 7, 2022)

War may bring on Beijings collapse. 

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...k=73770a42a1b80ac11459eebef3c8d748-1670470832

As it’s behind a paywall I’ll go for the quick 5. Scott Morrison, our previous PM was speaking at the Hudson Institute on Wednesday & said that Chinas appetite for detente with the West was a recognition it wasn’t ready for conflict. “Strength on paper when it comes to military capability is very different to what it is on a real theater of conflict. And if anyone ever doubts that, ask the Russians.” He went on to say that Beijing had more to lose than the west over Taiwan if they get it wrong. The effect on supply chains, financial markets & the movement of capital could potentially collapse & seize up. Mr. Morrison estimates that the potential impact of sanctions would reduce Chinese GDP by up to 35% compared to a 5-10% loss in the US.


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