# SF Officer Roles, Responsibilities, and Daily Life



## sierraleems (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm looking at commissioning options down the line and I'm trying to get a good glimpse of what kinds of things I would be tasked with as an SF officer (junior) both downrange and in the conus. I'm talking realistically, not what some mission statement or army recruiting blurb says. What is the daily life like at home station? Feel free to PM me due to issues of opsec.


----------



## x SF med (Apr 30, 2009)

sierraleems said:


> I'm looking at commissioning options down the line and I'm trying to get a good glimpse of what kinds of things I would be tasked with as an SF officer (junior) both downrange and in the conus. I'm talking realistically, not what some mission statement or army recruiting blurb says. What is the daily life like at home station? Feel free to PM me due to issues of opsec.


 
Um, you need to do research there kid. There are NO Junior Officers in SF - you can't even put in a request for SFAS until you are a 1LT(P).

Focus on your 25m targets.
Finish College 
Branch
OBC
EXCEL in your initial postings
think long and hard if SF or SOF are even right for you.
SFAS / Selected
Make it through the Q
Excel on a Team

at a minimum - 150m prior to even getting the chance to fail SFAS... that's easily 5 years minimum out.


----------



## 08steeda (Apr 30, 2009)

X SF Med - He is a PJ, so he has to be squared away!!! My money would be on him to making it thru selection!


----------



## x SF med (Apr 30, 2009)

08steeda said:


> X SF Med - He is a PJ, so he has to be squared away!!! My money would be on him to making it thru selection!


 
After 4 years of College and beer, then 3-4 yrs as a LT (2nd and 1st)?   Could be a challenge...

I'd give the same advice to everyone...  there are variables in there that can change everything.

I read profiles before I post advice - so as not to give bad advice based on the individuals quals....


----------



## 08steeda (Apr 30, 2009)

X SF Med - you speak from experience and I respect your accomplishment. Your advice on this forum is always excellent! Besides, I am probably unworthy to even walk in your foot steps!!!

I bet Q is a challenge for almost everyone. I was not trying to contradict you in any way, I promise! :)

I just have great faith in anyone who is a PJ! So my thought is that anyone who is a PJ would probably do well in that arena too! But it is just my opinion, unfounded as it may be! :2c: ...well maybe my 1/2 a cent!

So I am just going to shut up now!


----------



## sierraleems (Apr 30, 2009)

Hmm... I'm an operator, I finished my degree and pre med four years with a 3.6, and I'm not a kid. I never said anything factually incorrect about junior officers in SF, and I'm well aware that there are no 2lt's. Let's skip the condescending babble and get to the facts... I don't need information about how to apply, or what selection is like. I don't care, and I already used google to figure that out years ago. I'm interested in hearing from SF officers what their day to day life is like. 

Why is it that so many services treat other operators who are interested in cross training like they are civilians who might not have what it takes? I went into a navy seal recruiter the other day in my flight suit with an obvious triple stack and it was like I was some other joe blow straight out of college. If another operator was interested in cross training into pararescue the last thing I would do is lecture him about doing underwaters and having what it takes to make it through pj indoc. I would give him straight facts about what our job is like so he can make some informed decisions, which is what I'm looking for.

I don't mean to get fired up here and I mean no disrespect towards anyone.


----------



## AWP (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm not an SF Officer, so I'm reluctant to post and set a poor example (i.e., posting out of my lane). I don't know if we have any SF branch O's on the board and if we do I apologize for not remembering.

One stumbling block that affects all 18A candidates (where's Viper1? he can maybe shed some light on this.) is the Year Group. I'll leave it up to the recruiting web site to explain it, or start to:
http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/SORB_SPECIALFORCES_APP_PROCESS.html



> Application Procedures for Officers
> 
> 
> Documentation. The following lists all documentation necessary to be considered for selection by the Special Forces Branch, HRC.
> ...



Good luck!


----------



## surgicalcric (Apr 30, 2009)

sierraleems:  See my PM for my thoughts on your question.



08steeda said:


> ...I just have great faith in anyone who is a PJ! So my thought is that anyone who is a PJ would probably do well in that arena too! But it is just my opinion, unfounded as it may be! :2c: ...



The trouble here, and what you dont understand because you arent in the community, is that each unit in the SOF community is different and is looking for different things from their candidates.  There are plenty of MARSOC, AFSOC, NAVSOC (or whatever they call it), and other guys from USASOC who do not belong in SF for a myriad of reasons too great to cover in a single post.  There have been Rangers, SEAL's, Marine Recon, PJ/CCT's, etc who have come to SFAS and have failed to get selected for one reason or another.  There is also a number of the same who get to the SFQC only to not make it thru training for an equally diverse number of reasons.  There are plenty from across the spectrum that do make the grade...

Not everyone has what it takes to do what we do and not everyone wants to; the unfortunate part is that not everyone understands that, as evidenced by your post.


----------



## Boondocksaint375 (Apr 30, 2009)

x SF med said:


> Um, you need to do research there kid.



There were plenty of other avenues this thread could have gone.  A guy who has served his country in an SOF capacity, and merely asking for input, doesn't warrant the treatment given to the high school kids on the board.  If you don't have anything valuable to add to threads like this, then step away from the keyboard and let those who want to help a brother out, do just that.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 30, 2009)

sierraleems said:


> Hmm... ...



We get some kids on the site from time to time who haven't done their homework and expect the answers to their life's ambitions to be handed to them on a silver platter by those who have been where they want to go.  Clearly, you do not fall into that category.

While I am an officer with experience in an SF Group, I'm not an SF officer so I'm not going to speculate on what you can expect as a junior team leader other than to say if SF is like other branches, as the junior officer in the unit you can expect to do all the crap jobs that the other officers with more time in the unit don't feel like doing ;)

Are you here at Bragg?  If so, I will be glad to link you up with any one of about a 1/2 dozen SF officer friends of mine who would be happy to chat with you.  One of them graduated from the Q course less than a month ago and may have the most up-to-date answers for you.

Additionally, I know of an SF NCO who's going to be hosting what will probably be a kick-ass Cinco de Mayo party, and probably wouldn't mind if a fellow operator showed up with a couple of questions (and maybe a case of beer).   hint:  http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18990

Welcome to the site, best of luck with your goal of becoming SF.


----------



## 08steeda (Apr 30, 2009)

surgicalcric said:


> sierraleems: See my PM for my thoughts on your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

That is why it is called an OPINION (as stated in my post). I am NOT nor have I ever been in that community. But I have been around the block supporting that community (albeit only periodically) and having faith and believing in someone's ability (especially after proving themselves as a PJ) in my guestimation is probably a candidate who could succeed in selection. But that is just my opinion. 

I did try to become a PJ and couldn't cut it! And I do get it that every candidate is capable of NOT making it thru the Indoc/Selection and especially the final school like SFQC.  But some even repeat the selection/training/process after failing and then MAKE IT. 

I could have done the same thing, trained harder, gotten stronger in the areas I needed to improve upon to become a better swimmer. Then I could have attempted the PJ selection again! that still would not have guaranteed that i would have made it in selection or beyond.

I also understand each unit (especially in the SpecOps arena) has unique requirements around skills, aptitude, attitude, experience and personal commitment.

Sometimes text communications (email, chat, forums, etc) do not convey the intended message or intent. So I was probably not as clear as I could have been.


----------



## formerBrat (Apr 30, 2009)

sierraleems: Would you indulge a douchebag civi by elaborating more on possible decision to go away from the AF and your current AFSC vs trying to obtain a commission in the AF then go into the CRO field or STO? If you don't feel like answering that's cool, your initial post just made me wonder.


----------



## sierraleems (Apr 30, 2009)

Sent you a pm


----------



## 18C4V (May 1, 2009)

Why do you want to be an SF Officer? I'm a 18Z Team Sergeant and I've seen officers come and go. You may do between 24 to 36 months team time, then it's off for more "career progression" assignments. It's pretty frustating manning a computer doing your career progression at a JIOC listening on SATCOM of TICS or watching kill tv on the plasma screen. Or having the boring function of being DACO while the troops are getting ready to conduct a HAF on a HVT.


----------



## car (May 1, 2009)

Marauder06 said:


> We get some kids on the site from time to time who haven't done their homework and expect the answers to their life's ambitions to be handed to them on a silver platter by those who have been where they want to go.  Clearly, you do not fall into that category.
> 
> While I am an officer with experience in an SF Group, I'm not an SF officer so I'm not going to speculate on what you can expect as a junior team leader other than to say if SF is like other branches, as the junior officer in the unit you can expect to do all the crap jobs that the other officers with more time in the unit don't feel like doing ;)
> 
> ...




I think you need to listen to/seek advice from Mara. He's prolly the best qualed to answer you questions.

Everyone else perolly outghta back off........


----------



## digrar (May 1, 2009)

18C4V said:


> Why do you want to be an SF Officer? I'm a 18Z Team Sergeant and I've seen officers come and go. You may do between 24 to 26 months team time, then it's off for more "career progression" assignments. It's pretty frustating manning a computer doing your career progression at a JIOC listening on SATCOM of TICS or watching kill tv on the plasma screen. Or having the boring function of being DACO while the troops are getting ready to conduct a HAF on a HVT.



I was just reading this quote below today and thought it would be applicable sooner or later.
Major Phil Ashby from the Royal Marines in Unscathed, he's surrounded by RUF irregulars in Sierra Leone with 2 platoons of Kenyans and half a dozen other unarmed UN observers.



			
				Major Phil Ashby said:
			
		

> Kenyan soldiers: 'For every one of us we'll take ten of them.' They were convinced that I must have regularly experienced situations like this during Commando training. It would have been counter-productive to have shattered the illusion, so I kept my thoughts to myself. But I smiled inwardly as I remembered how, in my last UK job, I once found myself completing a risk assessment for use of the office photocopier.


----------



## x SF med (May 1, 2009)

sierraleems said:


> I'm looking at commissioning options down the line and I'm trying to get a good glimpse of what kinds of things I would be tasked with as an SF officer (junior) both downrange and in the conus. I'm talking realistically, not what some mission statement or army recruiting blurb says. What is the daily life like at home station? Feel free to PM me due to issues of opsec.


 


x SF med said:


> Um, you need to do research there kid. There are NO Junior Officers in SF - you can't even put in a request for SFAS until you are a 1LT(P).
> 
> Focus on your 25m targets.
> Finish College
> ...


 


Boondocksaint375 said:


> There were plenty of other avenues this thread could have gone. A guy who has served his country in an SOF capacity, and merely asking for input, doesn't warrant the treatment given to the high school kids on the board. If you don't have anything valuable to add to threads like this, then step away from the keyboard and let those who want to help a brother out, do just that.


 
As a response to all-

"kid" was because I am a hell of a lot older, no offense, I apologize.

The remainder of my response I will stand by, based on the vague information provided in the question and the lack of further edification in the profile or in any postings that came up in the search under "sierraleems". 
I tried to get as much clarity for my answer as was available - obviously, it was not there or I would have tailored my answer differently. 

It was not stated that you had finished a degree. 

I did not know the timeline you have set for "Blue to Green" - the assumption was out of the AF in about a year, finish college, and spend the required time in conventional units prior to moving to SF - which would have been 7-8 years - this can be cut by about 4 years to 3 to 4 years after completion of OCS and OBC. 

I also took into account the fact that you are not 'unseasoned' and the original timeframe to commissioning then SFAS would introduce challenges based on hard use... a fact, PJ's get damaged, and time takes it's toll.

I was also trying to get you to think about the question you posed - what can I expect as a junior officer in SF - there are too many variables based on optempo, mission requirements, team make up, etc. for a 'good answer' to the question.

Point of fact stated by 18C4V - you will have a max of 36 months on a team - generally about 26 months - then you move to accession and 'command' slots away from 'the guys'. You will spend a lot of time and energy Prior to SFAS and after your Team time - away from the ODA / 'operator' people.

Again - you will have to leave the SOF community in order to rejoin it as an officer - and in that time, anything could happen.

Apologies for my 'short' answer to your question - there are too many variables that need clarification - especially one big question - Do you want to stay on a team for an extended period of time? If the answer is 'yes' being an SF officer may not be right for you.


----------



## Swill (May 1, 2009)

Proving yourself in a SOF unit is a never ending task. Assessment never stops. Just because you are high speed in your current job doesn't mean you will be the right fit for another. Some guys can go anywhere. Some guys can't. I'm very good friends with an SMU guy who fell flat on his face at SFAS. Awesome guy, but he went in to it tab hunting (wrong attitude). Shit happens.


----------



## Trip_Wire (May 2, 2009)

surgicalcric said:


> sierraleems:  See my PM for my thoughts on your question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good post! I agree with what you have said here 100%

I really don't understand why sierraleems, would want to be an SF officer and on top of that go from the AF to the Army.

IMO, The true backbone of SF and especially the ODA's is the NCOs in the ODA, not the Captain or WO. If he truly wants to be a SF soldier why not start as an NCO? He' likely to lose a stripe going from AF to Army, but I'm sure would make it back quickly.

Why not stick with the AF and become an officer there? There must be jobs for an airman with his currant expertise in the AF.

The bottom line and my question is why does he want to make this move? What is his motivation?

x-SF medic makes some valid points as well, especially on an officers tenure on an ODA as well as other things he has pointed out.


----------



## sierraleems (May 2, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies!

After listening to a bunch of replies, I think that cross training as an NCO would be much more up my alley. I never said I wanted to become an SF officer, just that I wanted information about it.

Why do I want to cross train? Because I don't like where my career field is at right now in terms of work and I originally wanted to join SF in the first place. From my friends that I've talked to, the diverse mission set and perhaps more importantly the fact that you guys seem to stay pretty well employed with that mission set is a big factor. 

I'm in no way a tab chaser, I'm just trying to figure out where I can go to get lots of downrange action and do a job that doesn't waste years of training. I like hands on and I like being in the dirt, and quite frankly I don't want to sit around sipping lattes staying in four star hotels on stupid TDY's that practice skill sets that I'll never use. I have nothing against pararescue but it's not where I want to be right now. Maybe in ten years.


----------



## Viper1 (May 2, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> I'm not an SF Officer, so I'm reluctant to post and set a poor example (i.e., posting out of my lane). I don't know if we have any SF branch O's on the board and if we do I apologize for not remembering.
> 
> One stumbling block that affects all 18A candidates (where's Viper1? he can maybe shed some light on this.) is the Year Group. I'll leave it up to the recruiting web site to explain it, or start to:
> http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/SORB_SPECIALFORCES_APP_PROCESS.html
> ...




A brief note on the year group thing for officers.  In a word, the ARSOF board recruits a specific year group.  They just released the results for the YG 06 officers and are now recruiting YG 07.  You can apply out of YG but I do not personally know anyone who has done that.  

As my recruiter said "Make it count and do everything like it is your only shot."

Now back to PT and Rosetta Stone for me...


----------



## doorkicker (May 3, 2009)

sierraleems said:


> I'm just trying to figure out where I can go to get lots of downrange action and do a job that doesn't waste years of training. I like hands on and I like being in the dirt, and quite frankly I don't want to sit around sipping lattes staying in four star hotels on stupid TDY's that practice skill sets that I'll never use. I have nothing against pararescue but it's not where I want to be right now. Maybe in ten years.


I can appeciate that someone wants to see the culmination of their years of training put to use...who doesn't, but I've also always enjoyed the TDY trips in 4-5* hotels 

You can gut-check a few weeks but it takes true desire to go the distance.  Good luck with whatever you decide to persue.


----------



## P. Beck (May 3, 2009)

Traditionally, the function of a 180A on an ODA is the same as a KGB political officer in an old Soviet unit.  His purpose is to keep a sharp eye on the lower orders, ensure that they toe the party line, don't  display any dangerously free-thinking tendencies or get up to any counter-revolutionary shenanigans. He also serves as a liaison between the ODA and the B-team.

"Just sit quietly at you desk, sir.  Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.  Sign whatever I put in front of you and and if you should feel a sudden urge to express an opinion, close your eyes and focus on your breathing until the feeling passes. If we want to know what you think, someone will ask you. Keep this up for 18-24 months, we can check your block for you as a go at this station and you will then be free to move in a vigorous, rapid and decisive airborne fashion along the marked path to the next testing station."

A O3 is just a Sp4 with a bigger paycheck.  If his job was intrinsic to the actual accomplishment of the ODA's mission, they'd have assigned an NCO to do it.


----------



## lancero (May 3, 2009)

P. Beck said:


> A O3 is just a Sp4 with a bigger paycheck.  If his job was intrinsic to the actual accomplishment of the ODA's mission, they'd have assigned an NCO to do it.




Fuckin A' that's awesome.


----------



## sierraleems (May 6, 2009)

Thanks for everyone's replies on the subject... I got a chance to talk to enough people over the phone and through email that I'm pretty sure I DON'T want to be an SF officer but rather stay enlisted for as much hands on as possible. Then, down the line, the WO option looks very attractive.

Take care, and I'll hopefully see some of you downrange soon.

-SL


----------



## casperxb12r (Jun 1, 2009)

*White SOF?*

This is not so much a statement of just facts or expiereances, no this is more of my statement of what I have seen and know to be self evident. For those in this community, the community of a world that has been glorfied by books, movies, and catchy songs; for those of us who have walked the line, who continue to move forward in this world. This is for all of those who like me know what it means to be a "quiet professional". But what does that mean? To be a "quiet professional", let me expand upon this. I want to start by saying that I, and I want this to be quoted,"respect and care for ALL of my fellow brothers in arms within our community. I am not speaking of course of the general military as a whole. Please for give me but not all soldiers were created equal. That does not mean to say that I do not care for them, we are all Americans and I would and do gladly bleed for you all, but that does not make every one the media sees SF!" This has bothered me for quite some time, let me explain.
You have to understand that inorder to have earned such a title it takes a very particular person, but unfortunetly people watch a few movies, read a book or two, or hell; play a video game or air soft and they think they have it all figured out. I charge you to truely look in the mirror and ask yourself what it means if you are not a part of this community and wish to do so. What does it mean to have tried and failed, I tell you this. I respect the man who tried but did not have quite what it took to accomplish earning this special title. To me, he had the guts to try, to dream and to lay his money down. But unforenetly there are more people who say I would of, I was going to, or I know I can but...... Look brothers, all I am saying is that it pains me when I have seen, expieranced, and have been apart of the SOF community for 13 years. I have found that the more I am in the more I don't know. It take years of training to become profiant in your area of expertize. Some groups would have you believe that they are "ninja masters" after only maybe a year of training. That they are "experts". There is a term or name used for my particular group of individuals. We are concidered "white sof". White sof? Fuck you! I feel like I am in Resovour Dogs and just got called Mr. Pink! That particular character was truely the ONLY professional in the movie. He put aside the bullshit and went to go do what he was paid to do, right, wrong, or indifferant. The men I work with, train with, fight with, and live with are honestly the best as a whole I have ever seen. To take in and train/teach as much as we do. To be expected to know what we have to and to be able to do what it is we do, no one; and I do mean no one else can do it. Not at least correclty. So when I hear the term "white" it pains me, it is a true insult. I feel like the kid who can simply beat the coaches son at every aspect in the game but is benched because he is not the coache's son. We have been doing this job for over 50 years now and we are exceedenly well at it. Yet we are never given the respect our title deserves. Be that as it may... no one I have ever met in my community has ever asked for public recognation. But I will be damned that with in the SOF community that we are concidered "white". I do not care about a color, it is the priciple of the matter. There are some units that are concidered a higher tier based upon who they assist. "Assist". Now I will NOT take anything away from them, they are my brothers and I respect and love them just the same. But with that said, it takes years to produce and train just one of us, not 3-4 months. So what have been rambling on about? Simply this, my community has litteraly toppled entire governments or built them up, acted directly in place of our commander and chief, and have forever changed the face of warfare. Yet our P.R. is not the best. I will continue to move forward, but I charge any of you. If you feel that you have what it takes then do it! Come expeirance what it means to earn it. But I beg you, do not take this lightly, there is a great pride in knowing that the men to my left and right are true professionals. quiet professionals.


----------

