# Amos OK's new MOS for MARSOC



## dmcgill (Feb 15, 2011)

*Amos OKs new MOS for MARSOC*

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/02/marine-marsoc-mos-approved-by-amos-021411/

By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Feb 14, 2011 18:33:21 EST

A new primary military occupational specialty has been approved and authorized for enlisted Marines trained as special operators, ending the five-year rotation limit within Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command and clearing the way for promotion in a professional career path.
Monday’s announcement, made by MARSOC officials at Camp Lejeune, N.C., comes within days of the command’s five-year anniversary — and just in time for hundreds of MARSOC operators whose rotations were slated to last only that long.
Commandant Gen. Jim Amos approved the new MOS after a recent visit to Lejeune, MARSOC officials said.
For MARSOC, the approval of this PMOS for operators means a new opportunity to retain their experience and the organization’s accumulated investment in building a force of professionals who can perform at advanced levels. The operators can now compete for promotion over the course of a career with MARSOC, instead of returning to the fleet after five years to compete in a primary MOS.
The move also assures the future “thickening” of the force at manning levels sufficient to staff training lanes and schools, while meeting critical operational mission sets.
Amos also approved creation of a necessary MOS, or NMOS, for special operations capabilities specialists such as explosive ordnance disposal Marines, and a free MOS, or FMOS, for officers.
It is not immediately clear when the new MOSs will be implemented, or what the MOS designators will be.
Eligibility to become an operator was expanded to all MOSs in November 2008. Previously, the job was open only to Marines with combat arms backgrounds. That expansion, coupled with a formalized recruiting effort to screen potential MARSOC applicants, has increased the number of candidates the command has to choose from.
During a speech Feb. 8 in San Francisco, Amos announced his plan to grow MARSOC by 44 percent, bringing in more support personnel and training more operators. MARSOC’s end-strength at the end of January was about 2,700 personnel, officials said. About 600 of those are critical skills operators.


----------



## devilbones (Feb 15, 2011)

I just saw this.  Good news for you guys.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 15, 2011)

So will there be some kind of identifier for the support troops in MARSOC?  Do the enablers have to do some kind of assessment before they are assigned?


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 15, 2011)

Good news for the operators.


----------



## Scotth (Feb 15, 2011)

Should give MARSOC much needed continuity.  Good news for them.


----------



## 0699 (Feb 15, 2011)

I remember when MARSOC was sold to the Corps by the proponents saying "this will give us an opportunity to use SOCOM dollars to train Marines, then they will rotate back to the FMF and pass their experience onto the rest of the Corps".  Right from the beginning I questioned how MARSOC could maintain the same proficiency as the rest of SOCOM AND serve five-year billets.

I guess the Ministry of Truth strikes again...


----------



## SCCO_Marine (Feb 15, 2011)

0699 said:


> I remember when MARSOC was sold to the Corps by the proponents saying "this will give us an opportunity to use SOCOM dollars to train Marines, then they will rotate back to the FMF and pass their experience onto the rest of the Corps".  Right from the beginning I questioned how MARSOC could maintain the same proficiency as the rest of SOCOM AND serve five-year billets.
> 
> I guess the Ministry of Truth strikes again...



According Lefebvre he's laying out plans to rotate the CSO SNCO's back to the Fleet for short stints in Operational Staff FMF billets, then bring them back.

In an article titled, "Manning the Three Chessboards" & in another interview w/Defense Media Network, he outlined 8-12yrs consecutively in MarSOC before returning to the Fleet, but that all CSO's would eventually be brought back to MarSOC.

The Career Roadmap he layed once all pieces are in place is:

Starting as a young NCO you go thru ITC then Unit training & complete 1-2 deployments
Go on thru to a yr long Advanced Cultural/Language Immersion Training regimen
Complete another Unit Deployment
Spend a short stint Instructing at MSOS
Go back & deploy as a Tm Ldr
Fr/there he mentions some will go on to other assignments in SOCom while some will rotate back the the Fleet
After a short time away those CSO's will be brought back & sent thru schooling as MSOT Tm Chiefs, then on to a Tm Chief billet
After that some will rotate back to the Fleet, some to other assignments in SOCom.
Eventually bringing them back for MarSOC staff billets.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 15, 2011)

SCCO_Marine said:


> According Lefebvre he's laying out plans to rotate the CSO SNCO's back to the Fleet for short stints in Operational Staff FMF billets, then bring them back.
> 
> In an article titled, "Manning the Three Chessboards" & in another interview w/Defense Media Network, he outlined 8-12yrs consecutively in MarSOC before returning to the Fleet, but that all CSO's would eventually be brought back to MarSOC.
> 
> ...




I think it is a good plan.


----------



## L0gan4 (Feb 19, 2011)

BTW the MOS  is 0372


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 9, 2011)

Is there anywhere that lists what specialties will be receiving an NMOS?


----------



## Rob W. (Mar 17, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> So will there be some kind of identifier for the support troops in MARSOC? Do the enablers have to do some kind of assessment before they are assigned?



I can speak with regard to the Intel side, and yes they do.  They have an assessment and also have a shortened training course that they go through.  I have a friend in the Intel community that is doing just that.  I believe he mentioned that the training course was for all enabler MOS's.

As far as screening for other support jobs, I know that it wasn't happenning.  It was an assignment by the monitor; however, I believe that is changing.  Someone currently over at one of the MSOB's would be able to give you the most up-to-date info.  Or if you are really curious, I can make some phone calls.

-Rob


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 17, 2011)

Rob- I'm curious but don't put yourself out to get the info.  My main interest is in convincing Special Forces Command that the they need a screening process for their support troops; they're the only comparable SOF organization in the Army that doesn't have one.  I'm very familiar with the screening processes for Army and Joint SOF units that have a direct action mission, I was wondering how the Corps does it.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 17, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Rob- I'm curious but don't put yourself out to get the info.  My main interest is in convincing Special Forces Command that the they need a screening process for their support troops; they're the only comparable SOF organization in the Army that doesn't have one.  I'm very familiar with the screening processes for Army and Joint SOF units that have a direct action mission, I was wondering how the Corps does it.



I seriously could not agree with anything that has ever been said on this board more than what is above.


----------



## Hitman2/3 (Mar 18, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Rob- I'm curious but don't put yourself out to get the info. My main interest is in convincing Special Forces Command that the they need a screening process for their support troops; they're the only comparable SOF organization in the Army that doesn't have one. I'm very familiar with the screening processes for Army and Joint SOF units that have a direct action mission, I was wondering how the Corps does it.



Yes enablers will be getting a secondary MOS identifier. However; all that will do is mark them for the furture. The Marine Corps can and will still move them all over he Corps. At some point if we need a certain skill set it will allow the moniter to pull up all the former MARSOC enablers and pull whoever is needed back.

We have the same problem on our side with support personel. The Marine Corps still applies its "Every Marine/Unit is the same" mentality to us, so when we say we need a Motor T mech to go out with a team we get a boot LCpl fresh out of MOS school that is still learning his job. Not the smartest idea when the next nearest motor t support can be an hour away by air (after days of waiting) and days by truck. No real screening, no interview, not even realy telling the poor kid what he's getting into. He joins thinking he's going to be working in a garage, next thing he knows he deploying more than a grunt, living out of some mud hut, getting shot at and mortared on a daily basis. I signed up for it so I'm all about it, he never got a say in the matter. Same thing for the admin or logistics department. With as much traveling, special duty pays, and MOS's that are present you'd think at a minimum they would send us Admin folks with at least one other unit and some know how under their belt, but no. Our pay and travel claims get screwed up so much that its more expected than a suprise. Supply, "Hey LCpl Smith I need X", "Whats that", "It's the thing you have hanging on the wall", "Oh we don't carry those", "But its on the wall so you obviously carry them", "I'm not sure", "Well I need one I leave in a week, can I have that one", "No we need that for display", "But you didn't even know what that was", "Its 1400 we need to do inventory so we can leave, can you come back in two weeks we're going to be busy", "No dumbass I leave for deployment in 1 week", "Oh sorry".

I know its an ongoing fight on our side to get more expierenced support Marines over here. My team has pretty much come to the conclusion that for enablers they should be no lower than a Cpl and have at least one other unit under their belt. Sending a boot here is a disservice to them and us. They come here and think that the first name basis and all the other stuff that comes with a team is the norm. Then go to the regular Marine Corps and are either completly unable to adapt or have a very ruff time doing it. On our side we need a guy who knows his job backwards and forwards. The middle of a GAF with a broken down vehicle is not the time for him to figure out that he should have brought this kind of fluid because it commonly burns down or this type of tool because its essential. We conduct special operations so despite what the Corps would like to think we need special people both behind the gun and in support.


----------



## Rob W. (Mar 21, 2011)

As always, "Needs of the Corps."  and it's simply a numbers game.   The general Marine Corps consensus is going to be that a  "Motor T guy is a Motor T guy is a Motor T guy."  This veiwpoint does make it easier from a monitor/numbers standpoint, but is not very effective on the unit side of the house.   I could keep going on and on, but there are so many cliches that apply to this situation that it almost sad.  However, the problem is going to always be that they monitors for the support personnel are conventional Marine Corps; therefore, the are going to think of things in the big Marine Corps perspective.

For instance, if I am the Motor Transport monitor, and I have XX number of units that I need to fill with quality Motor T bubas, then why in the world would I send all of my quality NCO's to one unit (e.g. MARSOB).  That would leave a huge void to be filled in the rest of the Marine Corps.  By stacking MARSOB, I would be undermining of the rest of the Marine Corps' Motor T sections.  And since I have no vested interest in MARSOB whatsoever, I am going to give them the same percentage of new guys that I send anywhere else.  Never mind the fact that an inadequate supply guy working at base MP company doesn't create anywhere near the same operational/mission failures as an inadequate supply guys working at MARSOB.

Until the guys with lots of shiny things on their collar get together and create an established screening/requirement process for all support personnel, there is going to be no change.   Just keep fighting the good fight brother and hope for the best.

-Rob


----------



## AWP (Mar 22, 2011)

Cochise said:


> In both SF and SEALS, support elements are made out of the best of the best.



That's not even close to reality.

Please post an Intro before any further posts.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 22, 2011)

Cochise said:


> ...  In both SF and SEALS, support elements are made out of the best of the best.  ...



1) intro fail  https://shadowspear.com/vb/pages/info/
2) SOF knowledgeably fail  https://shadowspear.com/vb/threads/thinking-red-improving-intel-suppor-to-sf-groups.7716/

Please don't post about things you don't know anything about.


----------



## TJT0321 (Mar 22, 2011)

The Marine Corps has so many lingering issues that will prevent MARSOC from ever reaching its full potential. The "every marine is a rifleman" mentality has driven me crazy for years. Having spent months on the range as an instructor, I know for a fact that every marine is not a rifleman. I admit that the average marine can hit a man size target most of the time, but a real rifleman should be able to hit a man size target every time.

Then we have the whole "amphibious force" thing that I know is a joke after our recent swim qualifications. We have an unfortunate number of Marines that not only can't swim, but are generally terrified of the water, and yet they expect us to be able to perform amphibious landings with these clowns covering our six?

Maybe someday the leadership of the Corps will get out of the mindset that "everyone is special, so no one is special," and they will realize that their most highly trained and valuable operators are jumping ship at the cyclic rate to go somewhere that will treat them like adults. Most of the guys from my old teams have started contracting or instructing, while many have gone to SF and never looked back. The few that stuck around have gotten forced into billets they didn't want as soon as they picked up Staff Sergeant because the Marine Corps thinks that anyone E-6 or above needs to give up fighting and become a glorified admin clerk. Maybe that made sense back in the days when guys didn't pick up E-6 until they'd been in 12+ years, but today guys are picking it up in 6 or less.

Corporals and Sergeants are great, but Staff Sergeant's and Gunny's with more than a decade of experience should make up the meat and potatoes of the MSOBs and Force Companies. There is no substitute for experience, but unfortunately the brass gets so wrapped around the axle about physical performance that a lot of older guys can't compete with their 21 year old counterparts. Seems strange considering that many of the best law enforcement personnel are the older and more experienced guys. We act like war is a young man's game, but I think it should be more of a thinking man's game. We should be fighting smarter not harder.

As for support personnel, I still haven't figured out why they need to be Marines. Unless you're actually going to be fighting, why in the world do you need to be a rifleman? There are millions of qualified and highly educated civilians looking for work right now who would do an infinitely better job administering our paychecks and benefits, coordinating our logistics, providing our training and intelligence, and issuing our supply items. Why in the world do we entrust a 19 year old Lance Corporal to handle these important jobs?

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. Just had to get that off my chest after reading some of the previous posts.


----------



## Hitman2/3 (Mar 31, 2011)

TJT0321 said:


> The Marine Corps has so many lingering issues that will prevent MARSOC from ever reaching its full potential. The "every marine is a rifleman" mentality has driven me crazy for years. Having spent months on the range as an instructor, I know for a fact that every marine is not a rifleman. I admit that the average marine can hit a man size target most of the time, but a real rifleman should be able to hit a man size target every time.
> 
> Then we have the whole "amphibious force" thing that I know is a joke after our recent swim qualifications. We have an unfortunate number of Marines that not only can't swim, but are generally terrified of the water, and yet they expect us to be able to perform amphibious landings with these clowns covering our six?
> 
> ...



AMEN!!!


----------



## AWP (Mar 31, 2011)

I'm not a Marine and that is an awesome post, TJ.


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 31, 2011)

The MARADMIN is up http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN202-11.aspx/


----------



## MAGTF_Marine (Jun 21, 2011)

Agreed! Im really glad he  this! That was a really big black eye when I was first looking into MARSOC, because being stuck in my MOS means SLOOOW promotions!


----------



## Espada (Feb 17, 2012)

TJT0321, you're the type that should be a general, but you're also the type that obviously doesn't kiss ass.   Politics in the higher military ranks and blunt common sense just don't much seem to mix...   a sad state of affairs.

Thanks for a succinct and well articulated post.


----------

