# I am in need of guidance



## dirtmover (Jun 17, 2011)

As those of you that have read my intro, I was dropped from a course due to not meeting the standard. Now I could make all the excuses in the world on why it wasn't my fault, but at the end of the day I wasn't what they were looking for and that is that. I was suggested that I would be suited for another job but he couldn't get into the particulars, so I have no clue where to even start looking.

Right now my chain of command isn't supporting me to go to ANY schools not ALC or anything because they allowed me to go to this one course. It is very frustrating seeing my peers going to these schools and I am stuck like chuck. When I was at the course I never felt so in my element. I have never been so focused the task at hand in my life. But now I feel that I have failed at a chance to answer my calling. This is not me looking for a pity party if I wanted that then I would express my dilemma with my family, I am asking the advice of those who have been in my place and those who have completed the training that I seek to complete.

Should I just sit back and chill (do PT of course) for the next year plus until I get off the trail and then make my move or start searching out that dream job now and if they have a course between now and then pray that my chain of command will allow me to go?

Thank you for your time, help, and guidance

DM


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## Marauder06 (Jun 17, 2011)

It's not a drama, we all make mistakes and your post itself was well-written. Plus you can't change your own thread title anyway, which kind of sucks...

It would help if you would refresh our memory a little about what the program was that you were trying out for, and the specific reasons you washed out. No need for self-flagellation and we don't need you to go all TMI, just the basic facts so we can provide you the best possible advice.

Also, most of us don't like the term "BTDTs," I edited your post for you so that the term doesn't become a distraction from what you're trying to accomplish in this thread.


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## dirtmover (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks for the edit. The whole B T D T thing is good to know. The job I apply for was with USASOC and it was an Advanced Land Navigation Course. All I was told that I was dropped for not meeting the course standards that where unknown that is about as specific as I was told.


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## amlove21 (Jun 18, 2011)

dirtmover said:


> Thanks for the edit. The whole DADT thing is good to know. The job I apply for was with USASOC and it was an Advanced Land Navigation Course. All I was told that I was dropped for not meeting the course standards that where unknown that is about as specific as I was told.


Rog. Enough said on the course. Those standards aren't known for a reason- "the chicken bones have spoken." Don't get hung up on it.

Listen man, sometimes, you put your balls on the table, and sometimes you get hit for it. It's unfortunate that a chain of command sometimes sees sending someone to a course like that as "a risk" or "putting their necks out there" or "betting on you" or whatever they want to say. It's even more unfortunate when you feel like you take a step back at your job because that course didn't work out.

So here is the deal- you can't really influence people up the chain if they feel like being a dick about it. You can sit them down, be honest and say, "Listen, they select for a very specific personality type, and it wasn't me this time. I still plan on putting out here and being the best possible Soldier I can be." Other than that, there isn't a lot you can do other than wrap your head around the idea that it is what it is.

On a personal note, you have not a damn thing to be ashamed of or regret. You stood up and put yourself out there when less than 1% of the "bad ass warrior types" in the military would- and that's a pure statistical fact. If you want to go back, you know you can try again, and maybe next time is your time. I respect you for it, and the only piece of advice I have for you is to continue to conduct yourself like an adult and simply press on.


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## 18C4V (Jun 18, 2011)

I would wait until I was near the end of my DS tour before I would research going to other schools.  I too, was on the trail, but this was way before 9-11 so things I'm sure have changed. But when I was a DS, there was never enough DS per platoon and it sucked when it came to trying to get time off.  Now if you have 3-4 DS per platoon, then that's a different story.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2011)

From a command standpoint, I would be very reluctant to allow one of my people to attend a school he or she failed out of, especially if it were one that took time away from the job, wasn't related to the job I hired him or her for, and would involve the person getting whisked away in black Chinook forever it he or she were successful in the course.  I'm all about sending people to training, but in this case I think your chain of command lived up to their end of the bargain and you didn't.

I'd recommend that you concentrate on the job the Army is asking you to do right now; it's an important one with wide-ranging impact.  Then, if you still want to do it towards the end of the tour, see if you can attend training en route to your next assignment, even if this means extending in your current one.

Good luck, and good on you for trying out in the first place.


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## amlove21 (Jun 18, 2011)

I had to re-read Mara's post a couple times to get past the butthurt portion of my day- but great post Mara. Awesome to see it from the "O"ther side (although I wanted to be a whiny beeeeeeeitch about it the first time I read it):cool:. Thanks for your input.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 18, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> From a command standpoint, I would be very reluctant to allow one of my people to attend a school he or she failed out of, especially if it were one that took time away from the job, wasn't related to the job I hired him or her for, and would involve the person getting whisked away in black Chinook forever it he or she were successful in the course. I'm all about sending people to training, but in this case I think your chain of command lived up to their end of the bargain and you didn't.
> 
> I'd recommend that you concentrate on the job the Army is asking you to do right now; it's an important one with wide-ranging impact. Then, if you still want to do it towards the end of the tour, see if you can attend training en route to your next assignment, even if this means extending in your current one.
> 
> Good luck, and good on you for trying out in the first place.



I understand what you are saying here, but I really disagree. Sometimes for a course like the one he went to, you shouldn't be blackballed for not making the cut. It happens to the vast majority of the guys who go. Following your logic, do you not allow a soldier who is a non-select at SFAS to go to another school down the line. He could be a great soldier, just not SF material, so would you keep him from advancing his career because he had a bad couple of weeks? I am not arguing with you, just trying to see your side a little bit clearer.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 18, 2011)

amlove21 said:


> So here is the deal- you can't really influence people up the chain if they feel like being a dick about it. You can sit them down, be honest and say, "Listen, they select for a very specific personality type, and it wasn't me this time. I still plan on putting out here and being the best possible Soldier I can be." Other than that, there isn't a lot you can do other than wrap your head around the idea that it is what it is.
> 
> On a personal note, you have not a damn thing to be ashamed of or regret. You stood up and put yourself out there when less than 1% of the "bad ass warrior types" in the military would- and that's a pure statistical fact. If you want to go back, you know you can try again, and maybe next time is your time. I respect you for it, and the only piece of advice I have for you is to continue to conduct yourself like an adult and simply press on.



This is exactly what I would have said.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> I understand what you are saying here, but I really disagree. Sometimes for a course like the one he went to, you shouldn't be blackballed for not making the cut. It happens to the vast majority of the guys who go. Following your logic, do you not allow a soldier who is a non-select at SFAS to go to another school down the line. He could be a great soldier, just not SF material, so would you keep him from advancing his career because he had a bad couple of weeks? I am not arguing with you, just trying to see your side a little bit clearer.



Not "any" school, just the school that the individual failed out of.  I might reconsider down the line, but there are "X" many other Soldiers I'm responsible for, if after all of them have had a change for some professional development I might give someone who failed out a Mulligan, depending on how much the school cost in terms of money and time away from the mission.

By the way, the original posted is female ;)


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## x SF med (Jun 18, 2011)

Dirtmover...
I'm torn here in how to repond to this...  failure happens, for all of the reasons stated above, but I also get the feeling you "just want a school" to prove to yourself you can excel.

Mara's post is good from an Officer's perspective.  As an NCO, my thoughts diverge a little from Mara's but not much, mainly due to your job as a Drill Sergeant... you are the first line in preparing new recruits to really become soldiers, and you should know that even in Basic/AIT some of those with heart and desire, fail - not suited to the job (emotionally/physically) and another job needs to found or just not suited for the Army and they are gone.

 ALN is tough...  In the Q Course, that and swimming were the initial 'gene pool chlorine' my class lost 60% of it's students on just those 2 items.

You tried for a very tough dream, you have an important job to focus on for the near future, take time to figure out what you want as a substitute for the dream, until the next opportunity to attempt it is afforded to you...  and excel at your current job, that's what's going to really infuence your Chain of Command in your favor.

my, .02, YMMV


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## amlove21 (Jun 18, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> By the way, the original posted is female ;)


Yep! And I am hoping- although it may not be the case- that there isn't a little more "thats what we get for trying!" from the leadership side of the house because of it.

And Dirtmover- sorry about the "man" at the beginning! I honestly checked halfway through my original post to make sure I knew who I was talking to, just didn't edit properly. And again, well done for trying, that school is no easy task and it sucks that you didn't achieve what you wanted.


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## dirtmover (Jun 18, 2011)

Thank you all for your insight.  At first I want to respond to SF Med that it wasn't the case but there is some truth to what he said, but the major reason why I really wanted this was to find my niche in the Army (which not this job but perhaps another one).  Don't get me wrong I love the Army but I don't feel like I am living up to my potential.    Thanks Maraduer06 for helping me realize where my Chain is coming from.  I know that going to this course has changed me and made me realize alot about myself.  I believe that I have changed for the better.  If I waited 5 years for this chance waiting until I come off the trail in 12 months or a couple more years ain't shit. I will eventually get where I need to go, I  just might have to walk along the ridge line a little further.

Oh by the way amlove21, I won't hold it against you.    I understand what you were getting at, I just inserted ovaries for balls. hahahaha

Thanks again for all insight and guidance.

DM


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## amlove21 (Jun 19, 2011)

dirtmover said:


> Oh by the way amlove21, I won't hold it against you.  I understand what you were getting at, I just inserted ovaries for balls. hahahaha



NOPE! That part made it through on purpose. Whether you know it or not, you put your balls on the table. Maybe not literally, but still, you get the idea.


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