# What about Latin America and the Cartels?



## Blizzard (Dec 29, 2018)

There is always a lot of discussion about Russian and Chinese moves around the world, and rightfully so.  In addition, there is constant discussion about ongoing conflict in ME and Africa.  Also warranted.  I've seen posts about marijuana fields and recall the poppy fields in AFG.  It's an issue.  There clearly is no shortage of threats.  

But what about Cartels and the arguably more imminent threat they present to U.S. national security?  It's often viewed and presented through a much different lens in the press - one that's more a law enforcement issue as opposed to a military issue.  It's also seemingly viewed as an issue that has impact to the U.S. but is largely an external problem to solve.

We have and continue to provide military support at a variety of different levels over the years to fight cartels/drug trafficking but it's still mostly a secondary or even tertiary issue.   We can look to our greater involvement as far back as Escobar and the Medellin cartel all the way through current actions.  The question is, at what point, if any, do/should our actions against cartels become more open and direct?

Over the past several years we've seen popular vacation destinations in Mexico quickly become overrun by Cartels and essentially abandoned as destinations, consider Acacpulco and Mazatlán.  Looks like Cancun may be next:
GRAPHIC -- Cancun Wraps 2018 with At Least 540 Homicides

We know of continued violence in towns along the border, like Ciudad Juarez.  But it's not just Mexico.  There's Honduras, El Salvadar, and Guatemala -- our own little shitbox just down the road.  There is a resurgence in Columbia.

We read stories and have documentaries on people like this (I haven't seen the documentary yet - I'm torn between watching it and having it be viewed as encouraging the "stardom" of fuckstains like this and ignoring for the same reason):
The Sicario’s Tale: Pablo Escobar’s Top Hitman Tells ‘How I Blew Up More Than 100 People’

Watch Cartel Land.   Many of us have seen the Sicario films, which wile fictional, don't seem to stray too far from reality.  The Mexican government does not appear capable of effectively addressing the issue.  Cartels are increasingly emboldened.  They are increasingly moving into territory on the U.S. side of the border.

Corruption as a result of cartel influence can be found at all kinds of levels.  We even have examples in various posts throughout this forum as to how drug trafficking and usage takes place among our own elite military teams; how could/would this impact our effectiveness?  As cartel influence grows, so does the direct threat to our national security through increased violence.

Change our approach militarily to something more direct and overt is certainly not without pitfalls but so is the current approach.   Is the cartel threat overstated?  Understated?


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## SpitfireV (Dec 30, 2018)

I think comparing the threat of the PRC and RF to the cartels is a bit of a false economy since you're comparing a set of state actors with all the capacity and resources that implies to a non-state actor who, while powerful in their own right, don't have the same depths of technology and skills to plumb that a state does. I think a better comparison would be to counter terrorism. 

I think this is a great topic but I also think you could refine it down a bit. Which cartels are we talking about? Just grouping them a bit more strategically into by country the Mexicans operate differently to the Colombians and the Central American states I wouldn't say have their own "cartels" as such but do have their own gangs that work closely with the cartels; each has their own resources and capacity that is different to the others.


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## Blizzard (Dec 30, 2018)

It wasn't my intent to necessarily compare China and Russia to the Cartels; the threats are obviously very different.  Cartels may not be overtly state sponsored but at best the governments in the core countries they operate, particularly Mexico but also the Northern Triangle, are ineffective in dealing with them and at worst are outright complicit in their activities.  The threat from cartels is very asymmetric.  In many ways, it's tantamount to the way terror groups and tribes operate in Afghanistan. 

In Mexico, cartels occupy various regions and continually fighting to expand their control.  Some carry more influence than others; some, such as Sinaloa, have partnerships and alliances with other cartels.  All are not only willing, but seemingly embrace the idea of inflicting harm on innocent civilians to create fear of opposition and freedom of movement.  There is no honor or dignity in tactics.  They will torture and kill innocent children and women just as easily as they will an actual rival cartel member.  When rival cartels battle, collateral damage is not a consideration.

The new Mexican president has proposed a change in tactics:
Mexico’s new president has a radical plan to end the drug war
In my view, it sounds an awful lot like he's just throwing in the towel.

The fact that there are so many cartels operating makes this issue more complex.  I don't think the discussion can be just one cartel because it's such a tangled mess.  Right now, the Mexican cartels are seemingly the strongest and looking to expand.  They're all opportunistic and quick to jump in and fill any voids.  Smash one, another pops up -- case in point, FARC in Columbia.   It's interesting this article notes Colombia's progress against FARC and Urabenos at a time when cartels are seeing resurgence and expand there:
What Is the Mexican Cartels' Strategy for Post-FARC Colombia?

Also, there is more to this than just drug trafficking.  Human trafficking and extortion plays a major role, as well.


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## Gunz (Dec 30, 2018)

Cartel influence in the States is largely through the distribution networks, the street-level retail end of the pipeline, usually through gangs. The violence this side of the border tends to be business-related, that is, among buyers, sellers and competitors, rather than the open unrestrained bloodshed we see in Northern Mexico. Cartel representatives in the United States tend to keep a low profile to avoid detection.

Until the Mexican government declares unconditional warfare against all drug traffickers, suspends their legal rights and starts killing them on sight, the cartels will survive. In Columbia, in the latter days of Escobar and Ochoa, Columbia had to resort to extreme measures...covert actions were arranged and drug traffickers and cartel members started disappearing, only to be found later, garroted or throat-slit, some made to look like the work of rival cartels. It was illegal, deniable and very effective.

Our people (Centra Spike) helped with location and targeting information, fed to the covert police units and their operatives.


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## CQB (Dec 31, 2018)

Take the Sri Lankan option. It has worked. Whilst cartels are arguably different from Insurgents, the LTTE are no more due to a ruthless offensive & they were a  _very _effective organisation.


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## RackMaster (Dec 31, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Cartel influence in the States is largely through the distribution networks, the street-level retail end of the pipeline, usually through gangs. The violence this side of the border tends to be business-related, that is, among buyers, sellers and competitors, rather than the open unrestrained bloodshed we see in Northern Mexico. Cartel representatives in the United States tend to keep a low profile to avoid detection.
> 
> Until the Mexican government declares unconditional warfare against all drug traffickers, suspends their legal rights and starts killing them on sight, the cartels will survive. In Columbia, in the latter days of Escobar and Ochoa, Columbia had to resort to extreme measures...covert actions were arranged and drug traffickers and cartel members started disappearing, only to be found later, garroted or throat-slit, some made to look like the work of rival cartels. It was illegal, deniable and very effective.
> 
> Our people (Centra Spike) helped with location and targeting information, fed to the covert police units and their operatives.



Frankly, it's how we need to treat the Cartels and terrorist organizations worldwide.  We weren't winning "hearts and minds" in Germany and Japan.


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## Gunz (Dec 31, 2018)

RackMaster said:


> Frankly, it's how we need to treat the Cartels and terrorist organizations worldwide.  We weren't winning "hearts and minds" in Germany and Japan.



The web of the cartels becomes so interwoven into the fabric of the host nation's infrastructure, its economy, government agencies, legislative bodies, nothing is left untouched by the corruption and influence. It strangles from within. In Columbia, desperate times led to desperate measures.

I don't know if Mexico has the cojones to attack the cartels like the Columbians did. It would require giving free reign to certain covert elements within law enforcement or the army, money for the latest ISTAR assets and technology and the recruitment of people as ruthless as the coldest cartel killers...and for everybody else to turn a blind eye while the purification process unfolds over weeks and months and anybody associated with the cartels is hunted down like a dog and executed.

You can't kill the cartels domestically by lowering demand through treatment and education because it would never work. The demand will always be there. Decisive direct action is the only way to make the environment scary, lethal and unprofitable for the drug barons. Anything less and they will continue to thrive.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 31, 2018)

The cartels are only militant due to the people who attempt to disrupt/stop their business.  No different than the American  bootleggers of the early 20th century. Controlled distribution and regulations is how you change the dynamic.  You can't kill them a off,  you won't stop lil Juan from making money to feed his mom and sister. 

Marijuana, cocaine and heroin can all be controlled and regulated.  Meth?  Not so much, but thats a different animal all of its own. 

But I digress, control and regulations won't happen,  so fuck it,  let's keep whackamoling until we get bored with that...


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## Blizzard (Dec 31, 2018)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The cartels are only militant due to the people who attempt to disrupt/stop their business.  No different than the American  bootleggers of the early 20th century. Controlled distribution and regulations is how you change the dynamic.  You can't kill them a off,  you won't stop lil Juan from making money to feed his mom and sister.
> 
> Marijuana, cocaine and heroin can all be controlled and regulated.  Meth?  Not so much, but thats a different animal all of its own.
> 
> But I digress, control and regulations won't happen,  so fuck it,  let's keep whackamoling until we get bored with that...


The issue with this is that cartel business is more than just drugs.  It's human trafficking and extortion, among other things.

They aren't only militant against those in the way of their business.  They willing kill innocents to create terror and discourage opposition.  An example to this is the slaughter of 17 lime workers as documented in Cartel Land.  They were all innocent, a number of them children that were in the field with their family.  All were brutally murdered with the youngest ones so small they were reportedly smashed against rocks by swinging them by their feet.  They were killed because the owner of the line field refused to pay a higher "tax" to the controlling cartel.  So they took retribution on his workers.

So, there are different dynamics at play here.


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## Gunz (Dec 31, 2018)

Blizzard said:


> The issue with this is that cartel business is more than just drugs.  It's human trafficking and extortion, among other things...So, there are different dynamics at play here.



Yes, and it's intricately more complex than bootleggers in Chicago. The gun-running, human trafficking, drug trafficking and all aspects of smuggling, transportation and protection are interconnected. The Maras control the railheads, Chinese triads are involved in human trafficking, Mara Salvatrucha is protecting drug and human shipments along the Transportacion Ferroviaria Mexicana, the main freight line from Chiapas through Veracruz to N. Mexico...Lots of players is right, even FARC cells in Mexico maintaining drug routes in return for cash and weapons. Not only that...the drug trade brings $40-billion annually to the Mexican economy and has caused 160,000 deaths. 

In Columbia, the Bloque de Busqueda, a special covert police unit operated with Centra Spike's technical assistance to track down cartel members. There was an alleged unspoken alliance with Los Pepes and pretty soon cartel sicarios started disappearing or showing up dead. It wasn't whack a mole, it was putting the fear of God into cartel leadership and led to Escobar's death and the destruction of his empire.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2018)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The cartels are only militant due to the people who attempt to disrupt/stop their business.  No different than the American  bootleggers of the early 20th century. Controlled distribution and regulations is how you change the dynamic.  You can't kill them a off,  you won't stop lil Juan from making money to feed his mom and sister.
> 
> Marijuana, cocaine and heroin can all be controlled and regulated.  Meth?  Not so much, but thats a different animal all of its own.
> 
> But I digress, control and regulations won't happen,  so fuck it,  let's keep whackamoling until we get bored with that...


I would say cartels are more similar to the Klan at it's height in the 1920s.  To the point that they controlled the governors office in Indiana with an open member of the Klan in office.


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## AWP (Jan 3, 2019)

Blizzard said:


> Cartel Land



I just finished the doco. Wow, that was very well done with a lot of lessons to be learned by the military and law enforcement. It is well worth everyone's time.


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## Blizzard (Jan 4, 2019)

Interesting update re: Sinaloa cartel and the El Chapo trial:

At the El Chapo Trial, a Son Betrays His Father, and the Cartel

Can't wait to hear "the rest of the story".


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 4, 2019)

Blizzard said:


> Interesting update re: Sinaloa cartel and the El Chapo trial:
> 
> At the El Chapo Trial, a Son Betrays His Father, and the Cartel
> 
> Can't wait to hear "the rest of the story".


Well he's dead. Yikes.


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## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2019)

I see the problems akin to the modern terrorist movement: the strategy must be military _and_ law enforcement.  Unfortunately it's not just "let's legalize your-favorite-drug-here", the cartels are a scary mash-up of the mafia and terrorists.


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## Gunz (Jan 4, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I see the problems akin to the modern terrorist movement: the strategy must be military _and_ law enforcement.  Unfortunately it's not just "let's legalize your-favorite-drug-here", the cartels are a scary mash-up of the mafia and terrorists.



The problem with that is corruption within military and law enforcement, plata o plomo, silver or lead. You have to sift out a handpicked group of absolutely courageous and incorruptible people to form the core of your task force. Again, I cite Columbia's Colonel Hugo Martinez, head of the Search Bloc, who lived with death threats every day, who steadfastly turned down Escobar's bribes...and who's efforts eventually led to the demise of Columbia's powerful cartels.

But again, Columbia was paralyzed by the cartels--cops, judges, politicians, military officers--either bribed or assassinated. It took that paralysis, that sense of hopelessness to provide the impetus to take the gloves off and attack the cartels relentlessly using their own brutal methods.


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## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> The problem with that is corruption within military and law enforcement, plata o plomo, silver or lead. You have to sift out a handpicked group of absolutely courageous and incorruptible people to form the core of your task force. Again, I cite Columbia's Colonel Hugo Martinez, head of the Search Bloc, who lived with death threats every day, who steadfastly turned down Escobar's bribes...and who's efforts eventually led to the demise of Columbia's powerful cartels.
> 
> But again, Columbia was paralyzed by the cartels--cops, judges, politicians, military officers--either bribed or assassinated. It took that paralysis, that sense of hopelessness to provide the impetus to take the gloves off and attack the cartels relentlessly using their own brutal methods.



I profess to know very little outside _Sicario_ and a handful of other movies and a few headlines about cartels.  Just a topic about which I have done little research.  But on the face of it, I can see how the infiltration into the indigenous military and LE organizations throws a huge roadblock into any inroads to success.


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## Blizzard (Jan 4, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I profess to know very little outside _Sicario_ and a handful of other movies and a few headlines about cartels.  Just a topic about which I have done little research.  But on the face of it, I can see how the infiltration into the indigenous military and LE organizations throws a huge roadblock into any inroads to success.


To your last statement, just consider this statement from the article I posted earlier today:



			
				The New York Times said:
			
		

> Mr. Zambada also testified that his father’s bribery budget was often as much as $1 million a month. An Army general who worked as an official in the Mexican defense department earned a monthly stipend of $50,000 from the cartel, Mr. Zambada recalled. He also said that his father routinely bribed a military officer who once served as a personal guard to Mexico’s former president, Vicente Fox.


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## Flagg (Jan 4, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I see the problems akin to the modern terrorist movement: the strategy must be military _and_ law enforcement.  Unfortunately it's not just "let's legalize your-favorite-drug-here", the cartels are a scary mash-up of the mafia and terrorists.



I’d go so far as to add Entrepreneurs to your Mafia/Terrorist combo mashup. 

Remove one revenue stream, they adapt and expand into other revenue streams like any corporation adapting and sustaining itself through a disruptive business environment. 

But at the same time they’re like a “black Mirror” opposite of entrepreneurs.

Entrepreneurs create jobs and wealth that has a net positive impact on society(in most of not all cases with outliers being socially harmful ones with high costs to taxpayer).

Cartels create jobs and wealth that has a net negative impact on society(in most if not all cases with outliers being hearts and minds activities for home field support).

David Kilcullen’s book “Out of the Mountains” covers the concept of “conflict entrepreneurs” quite well. 

Behavioural Economics of drug cartels and illicit networks would be an interesting book or course if such a thing exists.


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## BravoOne (Jan 15, 2019)

The most capable unit the Mexican Government has (the Mexican Marine SOF) is very small and can’t cover all the work they COULD do to counter cartel operations. The other forces are all corrupt or incapable of making it happen. 

Remember also that historically the Mexican Government has a very funny relationship with the DoD and there are restrictions on their end in working with our Military. The MX Government definitely could use somebody help.

The U.S doesn’t even do everything we CAN on our side of the border. We are limited by available resources and priorities of the SES grade folks. As an example, my Team is engaged in these issues but when I worked the recruiting booth (and came back with a number of well qualified Vets and LE folks) I was told we couldn’t hire anyone at that time and nothing has changed. We desperately need additional people for that area of concern but the resources are devoted to other priorities. Countering the cartel activity in the area is definitely a mission space we don’t have to fight for and can excel at but only if we are going to be given the proper support and guidance. I personally pushed up two easily doable proposals that are being sat on in favor of support to other operations. It’s very frustrating to say the least.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 15, 2019)

Holy Shit.



> A former close personal aide to Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman testified Tuesday that the drug kingpin once paid a $100 million bribe to former Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto.
> 
> The stunning testimony came from Alex Cifuentes, a Colombian trafficker who once served as Guzman's secretary and close personal aide.




https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/15/us/el-chapo-guzman-trial-bribes/index.html


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## Brill (Oct 18, 2019)

This dudes Twitter of the combat action in Mexico is fucking insane.

cartel gun trucks with M2.

Jesús (@foxky09) | Twitter


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## Kraut783 (Oct 18, 2019)

There is so much going on down there....and no one really covers it.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 18, 2019)

As long as the drugs keep flowing North many Americans just don't give a shit. It's sad really, considering that a few years ago the Mexican populace let itself be disarmed for the greater good. Now they're prey for the cartels and corrupt gov thugs. 

If anything, Mexico and the shit the cartels put on twitter serve as a cautionary tale of why a population should be armed.


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## racing_kitty (Oct 18, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> There is so much going on down there....and no one really covers it.


There was an article I read on this a few years ago. Despite it being on Breitbart, it was quite interesting. The journalists that cover the cartel issues have unbelievably short life spans. Even writing under a nom de guerre, they are still found out and murdered. Hard to have good coverage of the issues when those that cover it might get out two or three articles before they’re found in Guadalajara, stuffed into two or three beer coolers.


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## Brill (Oct 18, 2019)

Unreal.

Bungled arrest of kingpin’s son result in mayhem


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## Kraut783 (Oct 18, 2019)

racing_kitty said:


> There was an article I read on this a few years ago. Despite it being on Breitbart, it was quite interesting. The journalists that cover the cartel issues have unbelievably short life spans. Even writing under a nom de guerre, they are still found out and murdered. Hard to have good coverage of the issues when those that cover it might get out two or three articles before they’re found in Guadalajara, stuffed into two or three beer coolers.



You would think the big news groups (Fox, CNN..etc), hell...even Vice, would cover some of this. But, yeah...Cartels don't play.


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## Scarecrow (Oct 18, 2019)

From someone who enjoys a life in an isolated country with no borders it is insane to see shit like that.

Build that wall.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 19, 2019)

ECP checkpoint video

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185054001240432640


Scarecrow said:


> From someone who enjoys a life in an isolated country with no borders it is insane to see shit like that.
> 
> Build that wall.


Even if we do and people are trying, we'd still need to purge a slew of officials at the local, state, and federal level who are on the cartels take.

Here's a bit of food for thought though. Most major drug trafficking hubs here in the USA are usually entrenched in large Democrat controlled cities. Guess which American political party is trying to lead a coup on the American Presidency?


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## SpitfireV (Oct 19, 2019)

Which hubs are those out of interest?


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 19, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> Which hubs are those out of interest?


Off the top of my head Denver, Seattle, LA, So Cal, El Paso, Spokane, and Albuquerque. Denver and the I-25 corridor are the new cocaine highway. El Paso is a major access and border crossing point from Juarez. Seattle is a major heroine hub and Spokane serves as a distribution hub for drugs coming into/out of the NW.

There is shit everywhere. It's gotten to the point where chicks on their Tinder profiles are advertising sex for cocaine.


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## Cookie_ (Oct 19, 2019)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Off the top of my head Denver, Seattle, LA, So Cal, El Paso, Spokane, and Albuquerque. Denver and the I-25 corridor are the new cocaine highway. El Paso is a major access and border crossing point from Juarez. Seattle is a major heroine hub and Spokane serves as a distribution hub for drugs coming into/out of the NW.
> 
> There is shit everywhere. It's gotten to the point where chicks on their Tinder profiles are advertising sex for cocaine.



I'd argue that it probably has a lot more to do with those cities being major port areas in geographically strategic areas as opposed to them being mainly controlled by the Dems.

I cant speak for the other cities, but I know guys who work for/with the drug enforcement/anti-gang units in the Denver area; they're pretty well supported by the City/State government to do all they work they do.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 19, 2019)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd argue that it probably has a lot more to do with those cities being major port areas in geographically strategic areas as opposed to them being mainly controlled by the Dems.
> 
> I cant speak for the other cities, but I know guys who work for/with the drug enforcement/anti-gang units in the Denver area; they're pretty well supported by the City/State government to do all they work they do.


Agree on those cities being located in strategic areas with access to major transport routes. Not sure on how complicit city and state govs are 'helping' law enforcement though. There is a lot of corruption in CO politics and I saw alot of it come on the back of the DNC.

Add on: Made correction to clarify. I have a lot of disdain for the political class in CO, especially the ones that brought the cancer of cocaine, cartels, and crime in.


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## Teufel (Oct 19, 2019)




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## racing_kitty (Oct 19, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> You would think the big news groups (Fox, CNN..etc), hell...even Vice, would cover some of this. But, yeah...Cartels don't play.


The big networks are cowards. It’s easy to cover Republicans because they’re a bunch of pussies that wouldn’t pose a life-or-death threat to a cockroach. The cartels don’t play, as you said, and they don’t want their $500 hairdo’s ruined by being stuffed into a beer cooler.


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## Jaknight (Oct 20, 2019)

Chicago is a main port for them El Chapo’s Sinaloa Cartel especially used it


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## Isiah6:8 (Oct 20, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> Chicago is a main port for them El Chapo’s Sinaloa Cartel especially used it


Given the shipping hub it is a pretty big trafficked area for all people looking to move weight.  In a city like Chicago with all the other businesses, there are amply opportunities for the middle men to clean their money quickly here as well.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 22, 2019)

Article: on what went down...shit

WTF Just Happened In Mexico? The Disaster of Culiacan


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## Jaknight (Oct 22, 2019)

ThunderHorse said:


> Article: on what went down...shit
> 
> WTF Just Happened In Mexico? The Disaster of Culiacan


How embarrassing for the Mexican Government I wonder how the USA would have handled it?


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 22, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> How embarrassing for the Mexican Government I wonder how the USA would have handled it?


See David Koresh in Waco.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 23, 2019)

This is how you get government backed extra-judicial killings on a mass scale, it's also going to lead to infighting amongst the rest of the cartels. Mexico is a tinderbox and those cartel idiots may have just lit the spark leading to civil war. If Obrador doesn't recoup, Mexico is going to fracture and we're going to get sucked into their maelstrom of self-destruction.

Waves of refugees, overburdened US infrastructure, and a big uptick in violence are gonna be the norm here if the cartels go unchecked. We also best believe that 3rd party groups (think China and Soros) are going to fan the flames in Mexico, destabilizing the US and furthering their own goals by proxy. The next zones of conflict are going to be in Asia and our own backyard.


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## DasBoot (Oct 23, 2019)

Yo ima just say it- everyone in the Barracks is down to clown. It’ll be like Ghost Recon Wildlands meets Sicario 2 (not the first one because we ain’t bringing some lame ass Emily blunt along). As the kids say (aka my 20 year old assistant gunner)- ESKETIT (@amlove21 i need your here to explain this to the normies)


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## Box (Oct 23, 2019)

"If the cartels go unchecked"

The cartels have never really been "checked" by anyone.  
...and if that same shit happened on the US border, one of our political parties would protest any action taken by the administration to "check" them.


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## Gunz (Oct 23, 2019)

.


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## Gunz (Oct 23, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> Which hubs are those out of interest?


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## Hillclimb (Oct 23, 2019)

Let an ODA/MSOT go TDY to ATF or CBP and clean the streets for a year. Or let that be their mission rehearsal exercise prior to a deployment. 

Will work for ripits/monsters/bangs.

Curious how proactive/busy the agencies are dealing with them, or if theyre just overworked/task saturated/political red tape.


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## RackMaster (Oct 23, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> View attachment 30065



Add the ports of Montréal and Vancouver.


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## Devildoc (Oct 23, 2019)

It's been a minute since I was the medic on the local PD tac team (like, 10 years).  Even back then we would execute high-risk warrants with our own _los federales_ on joint task forces, and our fair city is only about 250K.  Some of those cartels have been for years.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 23, 2019)

The Sinaloa Cartel like some of the old cartels in Columbia is a very sophisticated operation.  Most of the main cartels in Mexico are, but not on their level.  They at one point had reach back all the way to Calderon and Nieto's offices, didn't have the ability to lop off a head, but basically knew every move before it even got to Federales or Mexican Army high command for execution.  Calderon and Fox were probably the most effective at curbing the cartels, but that came at immense cost.  I don't think Obrador has that sort of mandate and he's a bit of a wuss.  

The reality is that everything Trump said about Mexico is true.  Now, how do we help them?  Well we helped Colombia, but that was a 30 year process.


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## RackMaster (Oct 23, 2019)

Create a multinational task force of our best hunter/killer team's and take off the gloves.  I know guy's that'd love to clean up our cheap vacation spots.


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## AWP (Oct 23, 2019)

DasBoot said:


> Yo ima just say it- everyone in the Barracks is down to clown.



Your whole barracks should be down to clown 24/7, worldwide. The day Rangers aren't hoping for a mustard stain or don't want to hit a target is a day I don't want to see.

Also, Emily Blunt is hawt.


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## DasBoot (Oct 24, 2019)

AWP said:


> Your whole barracks should be down to clown 24/7, worldwide. The day Rangers aren't hoping for a mustard stain or don't want to hit a target is a day I don't want to see.
> 
> Also, Emily Blunt is hawt.


I’m gonna let you in on a secret- we aren’t as dumb as we seem. Our Bogaloo Meter is based on an algorithm- Ease Of Infil/Chance of stacking corpses x number of friends who will get fucked up. Yes we are always down to party but our level of excitement is correlated to this. So Mexico? Stryker GAFs and MH-60 HAFs with the same assets we have OCONUS? Let’s do it.


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## AWP (Oct 24, 2019)

DasBoot said:


> I’m gonna let you in on a secret- we aren’t as dumb as we seem. Our Bogaloo Meter is based on an algorithm- Ease Of Infil/Chance of stacking corpses x number of friends who will get fucked up. Yes we are always down to party but our level of excitement is correlated to this. So Mexico? Stryker GAFs and MH-60 HAFs with the same assets we have OCONUS? Let’s do it.



Oh, I'm not implying you and your mates are dumb. I also know you're there for the violence, not a cool beret. Ranger Batt's the living embodiment of a sweaty gamer and I say that with respect.


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## DasBoot (Oct 24, 2019)

AWP said:


> Oh, I'm not implying you and your mates are dumb. I also know you're there for the violence, not a cool beret. Ranger Batt's the living embodiment of a sweaty gamer and I say that with respect.


Lol I’m messing with you man. We are all ASVAB waivers, even those of us with degrees. Honestly Marines aren’t much different from us. We just wear OAF shirts instead of basic training gear and chew on rocks instead of crayons.


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## AWP (Oct 24, 2019)

DasBoot said:


> Lol I’m messing with you man. We are all ASVAB waivers, even those of us with degrees. Honestly Marines aren’t much different from us. We just wear OAF shirts instead of basic training gear and chew on rocks instead of crayons.



OAF and not Ranger Up? You're all going to 3rd ID.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 24, 2019)

AWP said:


> OAF and not Ranger Up? You're all going to 3rd ID.


Nope, 82nd and 173rd have dibs. Granted, everyone I've met from Regiment hated Bragg and wanted to go back.


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## DasBoot (Oct 24, 2019)

AWP said:


> OAF and not Ranger Up? You're all going to 3rd ID.


Ranger Up is more... “your” generation of GWOT vets...


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## AWP (Oct 24, 2019)

DasBoot said:


> Ranger Up is more... “your” generation of GWOT vets...



I try to transcend generations and this happens...


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## Brill (Oct 24, 2019)

DasBoot said:


> Ranger Up is more... “your” generation of GWOT vets...



What just happened?


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## Gunz (Oct 24, 2019)

lindy said:


> What just happened?



A Lil Pump fan just told an Emily Blunt fan where to put it. Yeah, I know...it wasn't pretty.


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## DasBoot (Oct 24, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> A Lil Pump fan just told an Emily Blunt fan where to put it. Yeah, I know...it wasn't pretty.


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## BloodStripe (Oct 24, 2019)

Is that a Crayola flavored Slurpee? Asking for a friend.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 5, 2019)

Well this got at least some US Coverage.  RIP Victims: 9 Americans killed in Mexico ambush


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## Kraut783 (Nov 5, 2019)

*Trump says US is ready to help Mexico ‘wage WAR’ on drug cartels after Americans killed in ambush*

Trump says US is ready to help Mexico 'wage WAR' on drug cartels after Americans killed in ambush


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## Cookie_ (Nov 5, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> *Trump says US is ready to help Mexico ‘wage WAR’ on drug cartels after Americans killed in ambush*
> 
> Trump says US is ready to help Mexico 'wage WAR' on drug cartels after Americans killed in ambush


@DasBoot  and everyone else in Regiment right about now


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## DasBoot (Nov 5, 2019)

Cookie_ said:


> @DasBoot  and everyone else in Regiment right about now
> 
> 
> View attachment 30271


Yeah... no... more like this:


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## Gunz (Nov 5, 2019)

Been there. It's called hurry up and stand the fuck by. It's even better when you're told to fall out at 0230 with all your shit packed, weapons issued, ready for the trucks to come. And every goddam E2 E3 sea lawyer in the company is suddenly an SME in US foreign policy. 

And, of course, the trucks never come and you stand down at 0600. Just in time for reveille.


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## compforce (Nov 5, 2019)

Gunz said:


> Been there. It's called hurry up and stand the fuck by. It's even better when you're told to fall out at 0230 with all your shit packed, weapons issued, ready for the trucks to come. And every goddam E2 E3 sea lawyer in the company is suddenly an SME in US foreign policy.
> 
> And, of course, the trucks never come and you stand down at 0600. Just in time for reveille.


 Or...  the trucks come and the planes take off in Kentucky and you wake up staging in Florida for a Haitian coup that never happens.

Then the next time you have planes show up and go to sleep after take off in Kentucky and wake up in Riyadh...


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## AWP (Nov 5, 2019)

compforce said:


> Or...  the trucks come and the planes take off in Kentucky and you wake up staging in Florida for a Haitian coup that never happens.



That was our drill weekend. We were told to expect a call in the next 24 hours and I think they even let us leave early to go pack. @ke4gde do you remember that weekend?

 Your part in the adventure sounds more frustrating though.


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## nobodythank you (Nov 6, 2019)

AWP said:


> That was our drill weekend. We were told to expect a call in the next 24 hours and I think they even let us leave early to go pack. @ke4gde do you remember that weekend?
> 
> Your part in the adventure sounds more frustrating though.


That was just before I got there. I do however remember the state being on fire after a JRTC rotation and being told on the bird that we were gonna be jumped in with haz jump suits to do smoke jumper things  Not the same thing I know, but the absurdity of it all is what stuck with me. Which is what I gleaned from all this. LuLz.


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## Gunz (Nov 6, 2019)

We were supposed to go save Israel at Yom Kipper. But it wasn't kosher.


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## Gunz (Nov 6, 2019)

Anyway, back on topic.

We're not going to send troops to Mexico. Aside from any law enforcement, DEA or covert elements that are already there as partners or advisors, we don't need Rangers or Marines or infantry units running around in Northern Mexico. Having said, that I'm all for JDAMs and drone strikes on cartel big shots...which Mexico wouldn't permit anyway.


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## Hungry_Dog (Nov 6, 2019)

Doesn't matter anyway; The Mexican President said "No bueno".


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 6, 2019)

And of course the US Press is basically blaming the women and children for being ambushed.


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## AWP (Nov 6, 2019)

I have to wonder how much Mexico would benefit from a robust ISR presence over their country. No arms, just SIGINT, video, etc. "Gift" some GBU-39's and mate them with their PC-7's, then turn them loose. Flag a few Reapers or older Preds in Mexican Air Force insignia and fly those missions from Nevada but with Mexican Air Force officers doing the shooting.

The above puts them more involved in their country than the Afghan Air Force at times...


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## Gunz (Nov 6, 2019)

AWP said:


> I have to wonder how much Mexico would benefit from a robust ISR presence over their country. No arms, just SIGINT, video, etc. "Gift" some GBU-39's and mate them with their PC-7's, then turn them loose. Flag a few Reapers or older Preds in Mexican Air Force insignia and fly those missions from Nevada but with Mexican Air Force officers doing the shooting.
> 
> The above puts them more involved in their country than the Afghan Air Force at times...



That would be great...except Mexico is currently led by a leftist dreamer who's touting a non-confrontational approach to the drug war. He believes that education and social programs to eliminate poverty will bring about peace and tranquility to Mexico. And this just a couple of weeks after the Guzman jr dumpster fire in Culiacan.

His drug war slogan is _“abrazos no balazos" -- "_Hugs, not bullets."

Obrador said last week he doesn't take orders from Norte Americanos.


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## Brill (Nov 6, 2019)

AWP said:


> I have to wonder how much Mexico would benefit from a robust ISR presence over their country. No arms, just SIGINT...



Take note yung uns, he knows what’s what.


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## Jaknight (Nov 6, 2019)

Gunz said:


> That would be great...except Mexico is currently led by a leftist dreamer who's touting a non-confrontational approach to the drug war. As crazy as it seems, it actually is. He believes that education and social programs to eliminate poverty will bring about peace and tranquility to Mexico. And this is just a couple of weeks after the Guzman jr dumpster fire in Culiacan.
> 
> His drug war slogan (and if this doesn't prove he's either high on peyote or on the take) is _“abrazos no balazos" -- "_Hugs, not bullets."
> 
> ...


He seems to be taking a very non violent way of confronting the Cartels I’m pretty sure he works for them


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## Kraut783 (Nov 6, 2019)

There is more to that offshoot Mormon group in Mexico than is hitting the news, yet. Information is they have always been well armed at there compound,  and have had clashes with the cartels in the past.

Not to say this is an excuse, but I do wonder if there was an underlining cause, or just mis-identification...etc.


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## Gunz (Nov 7, 2019)

Jaknight said:


> He seems to be taking a very non violent way of confronting the Cartels I’m pretty sure he works for them



Right, except he's not "confronting" at all. By his passive stance he's giving the drug barons exactly what they want, limited interference from the government. 



Kraut783 said:


> There is more to that offshoot Mormon group in Mexico than is hitting the news, yet. Information is they have always been well armed at there compound,  and have had clashes with the cartels in the past.
> 
> Not to say this is an excuse, but I do wonder if there was an underlining cause, or just mis-identification...etc.



I'm reading more into this as well. The cartels can be messy...but this looks intentional. Yes, there were clashes apparently over water rights.


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## Phoenix15 (Nov 7, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> There is more to that offshoot Mormon group in Mexico than is hitting the news, yet. Information is they have always been well armed at there compound,  and have had clashes with the cartels in the past.
> 
> Not to say this is an excuse, but I do wonder if there was an underlining cause, or just mis-identification...etc.



for some reason the spokesman for the Langford family thinks his family was used as bait... his thought process is this:  Juarez Cartel shot up the cars and burned them in order to trick the Sinaloa Cartel into thinking that it was their vehicles burning and have them rush into a trap... surely the Sinaloa Cartel has access to radios and would quickly figure out it wasn't their white suburbans.... Mr. Langford is much more in tune with the local dynamics but I still find this hard to believe. Reuters Article on Massacred Family

so, if it wasn't a trap set by the Juarez Cartel then why did this happen? this aspect of it has bugged me over the last few days. how does the Juarez Cartel benefit from killing these Mexican-Americans? My mind quickly drifts to Poncho Villa days and the situations are similar.

Poncho Villa's massacre of Americans occurred during a revolutionary Mexico with competing factions trying to assume the lead dog identity and showing up the Americans was a great way to gain clout among the competing revolutionary groups. Strong action against foreigners along the northern border gains you political respect in Mexico City. 

does the same thinking apply to the cartels here? I know Mexico isn't currently in open revolution with competing militias trying to have a seat at the table but the situation seems similar. This doesn't seem like typical fighting over smuggling routes. Would one cartel actually benefit in Mexico City from a brazen act against Americans? Are cartels so synonymous with Mexican govt that there are tangible links between their goals and operations? 

lots of spit-balling here but this one has me confused....


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## Gunz (Nov 7, 2019)

Phoenix15 said:


> for some reason the spokesman for the Langford family thinks his family was used as bait... his thought process is this:  Juarez Cartel shot up the cars and burned them in order to trick the Sinaloa Cartel into thinking that it was their vehicles burning and have them rush into a trap... surely the Sinaloa Cartel has access to radios and would quickly figure out it wasn't their white suburbans.... Mr. Langford is much more in tune with the local dynamics but I still find this hard to believe. Reuters Article on Massacred Family
> 
> so, if it wasn't a trap set by the Juarez Cartel then why did this happen? this aspect of it has bugged me over the last few days. how does the Juarez Cartel benefit from killing these Mexican-Americans? My mind quickly drifts to Poncho Villa days and the situations are similar.
> 
> ...




The Mormons-as-bait angle makes no sense to me. Sinaloa and Juarez have been fighting each other for years. Usually when they kill civilians it's only to blame a rival for the killings or punish some transgression or interference.

There's no upside for any cartel or TCO to massacre American citizens...unless it's to frame a rival cartel. And even then it draws unwanted attention and disrupts business.


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## Box (Nov 7, 2019)

Seriously though - I'd like to ask "what about the the cartels" - why the fascination
...we have them in the US they just arent as openly violent in public.

Far more corrupt than the small time drug dealers south of the border - I think we call them politicians here in the US


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 7, 2019)

Fun little county down there...

Mexican police officer who arrested El Chapo's son is assassinated


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## AWP (Nov 7, 2019)

99 uncorrupted Mexican cops,
99 Mexican cops.
Testify now, get blasted down,
98 uncorrupted Mexican cops.

98 uncorrupted Mexican cops...


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## Kraut783 (Nov 7, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Fun little county down there...
> 
> Mexican police officer who arrested El Chapo's son is assassinated



Cartels don’t play...more power than the govt, and nobody is safe from their reach.


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## Gunz (Nov 8, 2019)

There's an upside to all this. Prosegur, the Spain-based PSC is doing landmark business in Mexico after some acquisitions. The Mexico Security Expo gets bigger and bigger every year.

Vehicle armoring is up about 850% in the last ten years. And not just CEO's anymore...the client base is shifting to lower income levels. IAC out of Utah is a big exporter. They're armoring up more mainstream, cheaper vehicles with light weight synthetic armor laminate.

So you can deny all you want--like El Presidente (Hugs, not bullets)--or you can just admit that your situation is totally FUBAR and try to make the most of it.


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## Brill (Nov 24, 2019)

Kraut783 said:


> Cartels don’t play...more power than the govt, and nobody is safe from their reach.



Have you seen this? Shit is unreal down there.



> Mexico’s multibillion-dollar avocado industry, headquartered in Michoacan state, has become a prime target for cartels, which have been seizing farms and clearing protected woodlands to plant their own groves of what locals call “green gold.”



Inside the bloody cartel war for Mexico's multibillion-dollar avocado industry


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## Blizzard (Nov 24, 2019)

^ Now I have another excuse for hating guacamole.  Avacados. 🤮


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## Brill (Nov 26, 2019)

There’s money to be made on illegal trafficking...INSIDE the US.

Huge illicit drivers license haul in Kentucky suggests a very established cartel operation


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## Gunz (Nov 26, 2019)

lindy said:


> There’s money to be made on illegal trafficking...INSIDE the US.
> 
> Huge illicit drivers license haul in Kentucky suggests a very established cartel operation




Atlanta's a big hub, Phoenix, Chicago, KC, St. Louis...mostly thanks to gangs, cartel proxies and our wonderful interstate highway system.


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## GOTWA (Nov 26, 2019)

Blizzard said:


> ^ Now I have another excuse for hating guacamole.  Avacados. 🤮


I have identified an insider threat.


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## Gunz (Nov 27, 2019)

Regional preferences. Blue for coke, red for meth.


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## Brill (Nov 27, 2019)

This could change EVERYTHING. Changing from Drug Trafficking Organization to Designated Terrorist Organization shifts the authorities from Title 18 to Title 10.  To refresh, in order to operationalize Title 10, all the homework would be done via Title 50. 

“So you are going to *designate the Mexican cartels as terror groups*?” O’Reilly pressed.

“*Yeah, I will be*,” Trump responded. “I have been working on that for the last 90 days. You know, designation is not that easy, you have to go through a process, and *we are well into that process*.”


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## GOTWA (Nov 27, 2019)

lindy said:


> This could change EVERYTHING. Changing from Drug Trafficking Organization to Designated Terrorist Organization shifts the authorities from Title 18 to Title 10.  To refresh, in order to operationalize Title 10, all the homework would be done via Title 50.
> 
> “So you are going to *designate the Mexican cartels as terror groups*?” O’Reilly pressed.
> 
> “*Yeah, I will be*,” Trump responded. “I have been working on that for the last 90 days. You know, designation is not that easy, you have to go through a process, and *we are well into that process*.”


Sooo, I'll be ready in September. Get the tour of duty request going. 🍆💦


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## AWP (Nov 27, 2019)

Gunz said:


> Regional preferences. Blue for coke, red for meth.
> 
> View attachment 30533



Florida's meth pocket centers around...Polk County! Color me shocked...

Speaking of colors, is this map saying Republicans smoke meth while Democrats use the more socially acceptable cocaine? OR are they rolling crack into the blue dots and now this explains a lot?


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 14, 2020)

Neat Rogan video on the cartels. For cross thread points, China is mentioned as a player in Mexico as well.






TLDW
- For those of you who like public lands in the US, you're sharing resources with cartel grow operations. Think forest management and pollution.
- Generation of cartel kids born in the US coming of age.
- Mexican ultra left govt's campaign of 'Hugs not Bullets' and the consequences of disarming a populace.
- Chinese incursions into Mexico for resources.

I know some of the stuff I post is pretty long, but for videos it helps using the captions feature and speeding things up to 1.5 via the video settings.


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## RackMaster (Jan 14, 2020)

Listened to it today, it was very interesting.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Listened to it today, it was very interesting.


Dude! It's crazy how interconnected we all are. Still not sure if it's for the better or worse.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 14, 2020)

AWP said:


> Florida's meth pocket centers around...Polk County! Color me shocked...


Sadly the area where I deer hunt is littered with Meth Camps.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 14, 2020)

So "this" happened a few days ago.  Dude driving the truck kept pretty cool under the circumstances, would be interested to know his background.


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## AWP (Jan 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Sadly the area where I deer hunt is littered with Meth Camps.



That must make for some speedy deer...


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