# Altitude sickness Impacts Special Forces Team



## Red Flag 1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Special Forces Soldiers in a climb to about 14,000' had some team members impacted by "Altitude Sickness"..... Fort Carson special forces soldiers evacuated off Longs Peak; no injuries.

While not being said exactly, my guess is they probably had some pulmonary edema. While not a cure, supplemental Oxygen can be of value over the short term. The only cure is a return to a more normal atmospheric pressure. while the climb was to over 14,000', they left from the base of the climb which is probably 5,000' above sea level. That said, their climb was near 20,000  cumulative feet.

Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 29.9 #/ square inch.
Atmospheric pressure at 20,000 feet is 13.5   #/ square inch 
Atmospheric pressure at the peak of Mt. Everest is 8.89  #/ square inch


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## Brill (Jun 4, 2016)

Im surprised they would get AMS at 14k given that Carson is 5-7k.


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## Etype (Jun 4, 2016)

Altitude sickness in its simplest form described as physical distress due to lack of oxygen at high elevation.

You can only sprint for so long, and slowly walking up a mountain at 14,000' can feel like sprinting.

May be your classic case of "altitude exhaustion."


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## ShadowSpear (Jun 4, 2016)

The rate of ascent is one of the biggest factors, which is why it takes over a month to get up most of the main summits around the world.  The majority of that time is spent acclimating to the altitude, otherwise you are in for a world of hurt.


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## Florida173 (Jun 4, 2016)

I have a friend that he and his wife have climbed every major summit on each continent together except denali and Everest. They've had two attempts at denali with weather being the issue the first time and she got AMS the second time.

They were saying that you can do all the things you should be doing, but sometimes it just hits you worse than the last time.

I had my bit of it from something as low as SLC, but coming from Florida and already being a bit under the weather it sucked...


EDIT: fixed some auto-corrected issues from my phone


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 4, 2016)

ShadowSpear said:


> The rate of ascent is one of the biggest factors, which is why it takes over a month to get up most of the main summits around the world.  The majority of that time is spent acclimating to the altitude, otherwise you are in for a world of hurt.



Yes, the work of adjusting to altitude. If you are climbing the Southern approach to Mt. Everest, it means traversing the deadly Khumbu Icefall twice a day. The rule is to climb high, and go back down and sleep low. You really play a dangerous game if you develop Pulmonary Edema at altitude. You figure and even count on growing more red cells, to increase oxygen transport that you will need at altitudes over 20,000'. If you get unlucky enough, you develop  pulmonary edema. fluids leak into your lungs, resulting in a decreased blood serum volume. Now you have the risk of more and more red blood cells circulating with less and less blood volume. Then the risk of blood clotting enters the equation.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Florida173 said:


> I have a friend that he and his wife have climbed every major summit on each continent together except denali and Everest. They've had two attempts at denali with weather being the issue the first time and she got AMS the second time.
> 
> They were saying that you can so all the things you should be doing, but sometimes it just his you worse than last time.
> 
> I had my bit of it from something as low as SLC, but coming from Florida and already being a bit under the weather it sucked...



I have no idea what you meant to say in the bulk of your post. Like Mt. Everest, the big peak in Alaska is still Mt. Denali


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 4, 2016)

There is no way to predict who, or will not develop AMS. You can predict who will need the most help and support. Seasoned Alpine climbers who have done well on all the 8,000 meter climbs can, and do develop Pulmonary Edema, and the oh so deadly Cerebral Edema.

I was a little surprised to see two 10th Gp (ABN) climbers get into trouble, but you never know.

As for predicting who will develop AMS, this is the first I have seen as a predictor of AMS:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131212095953.htm

It makes me wonder if those planning on 8,000m, or greater climbs, should have an altitude chamber ride?


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## Florida173 (Jun 4, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I have no idea what you meant to say in the bulk of your post. Like Mt. Everest, the big peak in Alaska is still Mt. Denali



Fixed, but yes.. Denali is in Alaska...

The point was that you can prepare and still get hit with AMS.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 4, 2016)

I tracked what Flo-Rida was saying:

His buddy and wife knocked out 5 of the 7 highest peaks of each continent.....all but Asia and North America.


I have also heard Alcohol can make Mountain Sickness come on faster....Doc's, is this true or an old wive's tales....?

:-"


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## AWP (Jun 4, 2016)

How much were they carrying? There are so many variables that world class athletes can succumb to HAPE/ HACE at lower altitudes. Acclimatization plan? Time spent at altitude? Even simple things like hydration really add up. Did they make a mistake? "Shit happens?" One became injured and the others developed problems trying to treat him? No bloody telling. Even good guys have bad days.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 4, 2016)

Agree on all boss, climbing is a different animal.

Look at the top V02 MAX numbers for athletes.....you don't see Climbers...
What you do see is Cyclists, X-country skiers and long distance runners.

I would expect to see Messner on the Top of the List. (first guy to sumit all 14 8000m peaks, and without O2)...


Bottom line: You don't, so being fit doesn't equate to being a better climber, but it does help you climb faster and spend less time in the death zone.


Small mistakes snow ball into catastrophes fast!


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## Brill (Jun 4, 2016)

ShadowSpear said:


> The rate of ascent is one of the biggest factors, which is why it takes over a month to get up most of the main summits around the world.  The majority of that time is spent acclimating to the altitude, otherwise you are in for a world of hurt.



I would *assume* they would have spent some time at the trailhead (9400') but even going from Carson, they would have definitely noticed the change.  I do hope the story will be posted for lesson's learned.

I also *assume* they took a technical route since if it was just a walk up the hill, Pike's is in their backyard.

Longs Peak : Climbing, Hiking & Mountaineering : SummitPost

I'm just glad they all made it off the hill given everything that's occurred this week.


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## Devildoc (Jun 8, 2016)

There's a book about a PJ (_That_ _Others May Live_? Can't recall title) in which the author and others were training on Mt. McKinley in AK when they were tasked to do an emergent rescue of a climber.  The climber and those of his party were experienced high altitude and technical climbers but fell to AMS and hypothermia.  AMS is nasty and can affect anyone, not just fat recreational climbers like me.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 8, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> There's a book about a PJ (_That_ _Others May Live_? Can't recall title) in which the author and others were training on Mt. McKinley in AK when they were tasked to do an emergent rescue of a climber.  The climber and those of his party were experienced high altitude and technical climbers but fell to AMS and hypothermia.  AMS is nasty and can affect anyone, not just fat recreational climbers like me.



AMS is really s scary event. Alpine climbers have to face this, and there is no way of predicting who will be affected. Of the two manifestations, Cerebral Edema is the real killer. Climbers can become hostile, and have no idea where they are. There is a point, where the smooth involuntary muscles that regulate blood flow to the skin, that stay contracted. As the body fights AMS, these muscles just loose their ability to keep blood going to the core only. When this happens, you will see climbers tearing off their parkas and gloves. All of the core temperature blood is released into the peripheral circulation. This blood is warmer, and the climbers will actually start to feel hot all over. In the end, the core now begins to cool rapidly, and internal body Temps. will just  drop like a rock.


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