# Down in Mali



## AWP (Dec 11, 2012)

It is a coup that isn't a coup down in "Africanistan".

http://news.yahoo.com/mali-pm-arrested-trying-leave-country-military-spokesman-032118315.html



> BAMAKO (Reuters) - Mali's prime minister was forced to resign on Tuesday by the soldiers who staged a coup in March, underscoring the military's continuing grip and complicating international efforts to help push Islamists from the north.
> Once a beacon of democracy in West Africa, Mali has been mired in crisis since the coup, when ethnic Tuareg rebels and al Qaeda-linked Islamist fighters took advantage of the chaos to seize the northern two-thirds of the arid nation.


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## Rampart (Dec 13, 2012)

The rot spreads.....


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## pardus (Dec 13, 2012)

In Africa? I'm shocked!


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## RackMaster (Dec 13, 2012)

We wasted a lot of time and effort there.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 1, 2013)

I hope we're smarter about how we deal with this emerging threat in Mali than we were about Afghanistan (i.e. don't wait until there is a massive attack before we do something meaningful about it).

http://news.msn.com/world/al-qaida-carves-out-its-own-country-in-mali-to-prep-for-global-jihad




> In the vacuum left after a military coup in Mali nine months ago, al-Qaida has taken over enormous territory to prepare for global jihad. World leaders are hesitating to respond militarily.
> MOPTI, Mali — Deep inside caves, in remote desert bases, in the escarpments and cliff faces of northern Mali, Islamic fighters are burrowing into the earth, erecting a formidable set of defenses to protect what has essentially become al-Qaida's new country.
> They have used the bulldozers, earth movers and Caterpillar machines left behind by fleeing construction crews to dig what residents and local officials describe as an elaborate network of tunnels, trenches, shafts and ramparts. In just one case, inside a cave large enough to drive trucks into, they have stored up to 100 drums of gasoline, guaranteeing their fuel supply in the face of a foreign intervention, according to experts.
> Northern Mali is now the biggest territory held by al-Qaida and its allies. And as the world hesitates, delaying a military intervention, the extremists who seized control of the area earlier this year are preparing for a war they boast will be worse than the decade-old struggle in Afghanistan.
> "Al-Qaida never owned Afghanistan," said former United Nations diplomat Robert Fowler, a Canadian kidnapped and held for 130 days by al-Qaida's local chapter, whose fighters now control the main cities in the north. "They do own northern Mali."


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## DA SWO (Jan 1, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> I hope we're smarter about how we deal with this emerging threat in Mali than we were about Afghanistan (i.e. don't wait until there is a massive attack before we do something meaningful about it).
> 
> http://news.msn.com/world/al-qaida-carves-out-its-own-country-in-mali-to-prep-for-global-jihad


Nah, we will wait because the UN demands we wait.


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## Yoshi (Jan 1, 2013)

This news and the fact that nothing has been done astounds me. Could anyone offer an opinion on the best course of action towards this situation? Also, if northern Mali does become a war zone what would be the best way to eliminate al-Qaida? 

Thanks


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## AWP (Jan 1, 2013)

> They have used the bulldozers, earth movers and Caterpillar machines left behind by fleeing construction crews to dig what residents and local officials describe as an elaborate network of tunnels, trenches, shafts and ramparts. In just one case, inside a cave large enough to drive trucks into, they have stored up to 100 drums of gasoline, guaranteeing their fuel supply in the face of a foreign intervention, according to experts.


 
They did this in Afghanistan, it was how Usama made his bones (some of them) when the Soviets were here.



> And as the world hesitates, delaying a military intervention,


 
Did we not learn from Afghanistan in the late 80's, early 90's? I think the answer is a loud and thunderous YES, WE DID NOT LEARN!



> Mali's former president has acknowledged, diplomatic cables show, that the country cannot patrol a frontier twice the length of the border between the United States and Mexico.


 
If it makes him feel any better, we can't do it at home, much less between AF and PK and we're terrified of the Iranian border.



> Earlier this year, the 15 nations in West Africa, including Mali, agreed on a proposal for the military to take back the north, and sought backing from the United Nations. Earlier this month, the Security Council authorized the intervention but imposed certain conditions, including training Mali's military, which is accused of serious human rights abuses since the coup. Diplomats say the intervention will likely not happen before September of 2013.


 
Human rights trumps international, intergalactic terrorism? Sounds legit. The UN couldn't beat Dr. Evil, much less Al-Q. Every time we go down this "human rights" path with respect to other nations, we lose. Period.



> In addition to creating defenses, the fighters are amassing supplies, experts said. A local who was taken by Islamists into a cave in the region of Kidal described an enormous room, where several cars were parked. Along the walls, he counted up to 100 barrels of gasoline, according to the man's testimony to New York-based Human Rights Watch.


 
Again, see also: Afghanistan in the late 90's.

Forget it, the rest of the article is more of the same. This is identical to Afghanistan except for one thing.

This is worse. Here they lived among the people and there, they own whole towns and will soon own whole regions. The one factor we could exploit here is that al-Q treated the locals like dirt. If they don't follow that course in Mali, it will be difficult to gain traction with the locals, particularly since we've shown exceptional ability at cutting and running, leaving our allies out to dry.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 1, 2013)

Mali.  Another country most Americans can't identify on the map, and one we won't care about until someone launches an attack several attacks against us.  Then we'll over-react and over-commit there just like we did in... well, you already know the story.

So, AQ, our sworn and highly-capable enemy, who have conducted attacks against us all over the world and killed thousands of our citizens, is entrenched and getting stronger in Mali, and we do nothing about it.  But meanwhile, we have *how many troops and how much resources committed to the fight against Kony and the LRA*, who are a threat to the US... how exactly?  I forget.  Maybe someone needs to do a "*Mali 2012*" video and get people focused on the right things.


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## dirtmover (Jan 7, 2013)

Well Mara i am sure you have clip art for that.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 7, 2013)

dirtmover said:


> Well Mara i am sure you have clip art for that.


 
hmmm....

Maybe a highly professional and detailed precision intel product to drive operations to focus on the more pressing target?


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## pardus (Jan 8, 2013)

Marauder06 said:


> hmmm....
> 
> Maybe a highly profession and detailed intel product to drive operations to focus on the more pressing target?


 
Tell the PFC that put that together for you that he forgot several capital cities in that map, and that Zanzibar is not the capital of Tanzania. A bit shabby old chap.


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## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

pardus said:


> Tell the PFC that put that together for you that he forgot several capital cities in that map, and that Zanzibar is not the capital of Tanzania. A bit shabby old chap.


 
Ah, but are those representative of capital cities or just cities in general?


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## pardus (Jan 8, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Ah, but are those representative of capital cities or just cities in general?


 
Shhh


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## AWP (Jan 8, 2013)

To paraphrase Tombstone:

Maybe Intel's not your thing. I know, let's have a spelling contest.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2013)

pardus said:


> Tell the PFC that put that together for you that he forgot several capital cities in that map, and that Zanzibar is not the capital of Tanzania. A bit shabby old chap.


 
Capitals?  Why my dear Pardus, if you had been late to the briefing due to your drunken philandering with the local... well, whatever it is you're into these days...  anyway, if you had made it to the briefing you would have known that those cities are the ones most likely to contain individuals in the area who view the US favorably.  Note that there are very few of these cities.  And we had to erase the ones we had in Egypt, Algeria, Libya, and Saudi Arabia.


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## pardus (Jan 8, 2013)

LOL Fucker.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 8, 2013)

Witty comeback from an officer! DSC here he comes!


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## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2013)

SpitfireV said:


> Witty comeback from an officer! DSC here he comes!


 
I'll have to put myself in for it... but there's plenty of precedent for that!


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## Crusader74 (Jan 9, 2013)

I believe there is a lot of "backround work " going on but waiting on sanctions from the higher ups... The EU are worried.


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## manas (Jan 9, 2013)

It's sad that Timbuktu's historic sites were destroyed. Even worse for the people of Mali who now have to deal with such BS.

I believe France was supposed to send drones at one point. Maybe things will get more heated there once they NATO works out all the politics.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 9, 2013)

manas said:


> It's sad that Timbuktu's historic sites were destroyed. Even worse for the people of Mali who now have to deal with such BS.
> 
> I believe France was supposed to send drones at one point. Maybe things will get more heated there once they NATO the US works out all the politics.


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## manas (Jan 9, 2013)

Haha, I see what you did there.  We just need to commit instead of being half in and half out.



> The United States has periodically flown Global Hawk surveillance drones and some reconnaissance planes over northern Mali and the wider Sahel region, but has so far limited Predator surveillance drones to missions in nearby Libya. State Department officials have expressed strong reservations about introducing armed drones in any missions in Mali.


 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/w...ws-in-a-divided-mali.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## SkrewzLoose (Jan 9, 2013)

manas said:


> Haha, I see what you did there. *We just need to commit instead of being half in and half out*.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/w...ws-in-a-divided-mali.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


That's what...he said?


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## racing_kitty (Jan 20, 2013)

Not everyone in Mali is happy about their new fundamentalist overlords.  Link to article here.  It would seem that some folks in Gao said "enough," and lynched the police commissioner after a journo was killed earlier in the day.


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## Chopstick (Jan 20, 2013)

> He gained notoriety when he was reported to have cut off his own brother's hand as fighters imposed a strict form of Islamic law across northern Mali.


racing_kitty, sounds like the police commish wasnt exactly a "people person".


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## RackMaster (Jan 20, 2013)

When the dust clears I'd be curious to see what kind of "foreign fighter" numbers will be in the dead pile.


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