# Case Study:  "An Army in Transition"



## Marauder06 (Mar 5, 2022)

OK, it's been a while so I think it's probably time for another case study.  Suggestions on topic / scenario?


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## RackMaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Do you want a topic that could get you "cancelled"? lol


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## Marauder06 (Mar 5, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Do you want a topic that could get you "cancelled"? lol


Just being who I am demographically seems to be enough to get me "cancelled" in the current environment.  ;)

I think we can address sensitive topics in these kinds of case studies without anyone getting hit with the Internet lynch mob, what did you have in mind?


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 5, 2022)

I would be interested in reading a study that focuses on a seasoned service member in a leadership position, struggling with how to communicate the woke (for lack of a better term) orders of transsexual acceptance and mandatory peer reviews.  How it appears the military is turning away from hard nosed war fighters (at least publicly) and more into just another corporation where more time is spent in meetings and PowerPoints focused on inclusion, than how to best kill the enemy.


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## AWP (Mar 5, 2022)

So many jokes, so little time.


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## RackMaster (Mar 5, 2022)

It's been done before but I was thinking of parallels between current changes in American/Western society and the downfall of historical empires.  The Romans come to mind.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 5, 2022)

I say stay away from all that high level strategic stuff and stick to leadership issues that will or could have had an effect on the people contributing and they'd be in a position to have input on it. 

How about something along the lines of a commander wants intelligence "changed" to get him some kind of advantage?


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## Archangel27 (Mar 6, 2022)

In consultation with @Marauder06, let me see how this works out.

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It’s another sweltering Monday at Fort Bragg, and CPT Harrison Winters is knee deep sorting through a pile of CCIRs and SIRs from the previous weekend. As the Company Commander of the 2d IBCT’s HHC, much of the first day of the week was spent combing over how many of his paratroopers had gotten into drunken bar fights, DUIs, or other various types of misconduct. Some things would never change, he mused as he went about reviewing the packets sent over to him from his Military Justice Advisor.

After his second cup of coffee, a knock on his door took him somewhat by surprise. “Enter”, he said, taking care to quickly shuffle the papers out of view.

The door opened, and to CPT Winters’ great relief, in stepped 2LT John Berry. A grunt through and through, he stood ramrod straight at attention after entering. “All The Way, sir” he said, rendering the proper greeting.

“All the way, LT Berry, and relax,” came the response from CPT Winters. “How can I help you?”

2LT Berry stood an imposing 6’2” and his broad and muscled frame shifted to at ease, though his facial expression betrayed concern and nervousness. “Sir, I’m very troubled about something.”

“What is the problem, LT? I’ve never known you to not rise to the challenge.”

Berry chuckled a little bit. “Sir, I admit this isn’t just a PT test.”

Winters furrowed his brow. “Well you certainly boss those. I understand that you’ve been vying for the Best Ranger competition slot, and you definitely have the respect of everyone here ever since you got your jumpmaster certification.”

“That’s the thing, sir. I’m actually wanted to bring something to your attention and I admit it’s not the easiest thing for me to say.”

“Well go ahead!  Spit it out!”

Berry stood in silence for a good ten seconds. “Sir, I, uh, I don’t – uh - feel comfortable with who I am.”

CPT Winter rose from his chair. “What do you mean you don’t? You’re 2LT John Berry! We love you here and you have the respect of every soldier in the BCT.”

A bead of sweat began forming from 2LT Berry’s hairline despite the air conditioning. “Sir, uh, I feel like – like I’m a woman.”

“2LT Berry I’m not sure I follow. Like the Shania Twain song?”

“CPT Winters, sir! I think my gender identity is that of a female and I don’t know what to do now.”

The silence in the room was deafening, as CPT Winters looked, stupefied, at the Ranger tabbed Jumpmaster in front of him. He remembered from the training the JAG had given to them last month about transgender servicemembers. His first instinct was to ensure he treated 2LT Berry with dignity and respect.

“2LT Berry, we’ll be sure to help you with that, and as you know with Army policy, we need to get you to medical to see what your next options are. Okay?”

Clearly relieved, 2LT Berry was grateful as he exited the office, heading off to deal with the appointment scheduling.

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A few days pass, and SPC Enrique Casillas, one of 2LT Berry's soldiers, stops by the office and he’s clearly disgruntled.

“CPT Winters, sir!”

“What’s going on SPC Casillas?”

SPC Casillas can barely control his anger. “Sir, 2LT Berry is asking all of us to call him, “ma’am.” I don’t understand it at all. He has a Ranger tab. I couldn’t help myself and I called him out in front of everyone at morning formation saying that he has a dick and needs to go to the hospital to get checked out for some psychological illness. When I told him it was dumb and said he was a tr***y, cause let’s be real I have to call a spade a spade, he got mad at me and told me to come here and see you.  I don't know what they taught him in that college with that degree of his, but it sure sounds like a load of horseshit.”

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1.  What should CPT Winters tell SPC Casillas?  Discuss.

2.  How could have CPT Winters handled the conversation with 2LT Berry better?  Discuss.

3.  What does treating someone with "dignity and respect" mean, and how might or should it differ from what either a) broader society thinks it means or b) what the Army/military thinks it means?  Discuss.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 6, 2022)

1. Casillas needs to fuck up and needs to run for a long way for a long time. That's no way to speak to someone ranking or even a peer outside of jest really. I think he's likely jumping his chain of command too. That said, it's pretty presumptuous of Berry to start with that nonsense so Winters has a few fires to put out here.

2. He probably shouldn't have made cracks about it since it was clear it was a sensitive topic and he was nervous bringing it up. He probably should have brought up the policy on the PC there and then and gone over it with Berry so everyone is clear where they stand. That's probably fed into issue 1 to some degree.

3. Organisational question, I won't touch it because I don't have any input.

EDIT: World record for amount of "probably" in a paragraph.


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## Gunz (Mar 6, 2022)

Not to make light of this, but if 2nd Lt Berry had instead claimed to be non-binary, he would have to be addressed in the plural. He would essentially be an Army of Two.


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 6, 2022)

I guess I'm just not into the kinder, gentler, more inclusive Army.  But Casillas gets read the riot act for disrespecting an officer.

But then Berry gets removed from his platoon and sent to the 5th floor. He/She/They/Whatever can be reintegrated after they've transitioned or whatever will happen under the next administration.  (That's probably against current DoD Policy, but you can't have officers going around telling their Soldiers "Call me Ma'aM" or if it was a woman "Call me Sir" either)

Also, if he has one Soldier telling him that to his face, there's definitely going to be more than a few in that platoon that "feel" the same way and confidence in that platoon will likely be sinking right into the drink.


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## Gunz (Mar 6, 2022)

There are 72 gender identities. Captain Winters needs a DoD Reference Manual for gender terminology and appropriate pronoun application for each, with detailed instructions as to procedure. If we as a society are going to continue to take this beyond the threshold of absurdity, a male officer announcing he is a woman will be a most routine occurance.

If I were CPT Winters, I would advise (order) LT Berry to not mention the nature of his dilemma in front of his troops for the time being. If LT Berry follows my advise (order) and does not divulge his potentially unsettling personal issue in front of his whole platoon—for the time being—then the incident with the little shit SPC would not happen.

Then I would take the whole company on a 20-mile forced march to remind them that they are soldiers trained for combat first and foremost.


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## Locksteady (Mar 7, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> 1.  What should CPT Winters tell SPC Casillas?  Discuss.


He should remind SPC Casillas that no matter how he feels about 2LT Berry's request that he is in no position to step out of his lane as a much lower ranking, enlisted servicemember, much less as anybody representing the armed services, by publicly swearing at him and accusing him of mental illness.  He should also remind him that it is not his place, especially as an enlisted servicemember, to speak to an officer as his equal, and certainly not to speak down at one during a morning formation.  Further (assuming that 'tranny' is included on current guidance regarding slurs), he should not refer to 2LT as a 'tranny' or anything else listed on the current guidance about slurs.


Archangel27 said:


> 2.  How could have CPT Winters handled the conversation with 2LT Berry better?  Discuss.


To handle the situation with 2LT Berry better, CPT Winters could have referred to him as 2LT or LT, instead of SGT, after he told CPT Winters he wanted to bring something to his attention that wasn't easy for him to say.

Additionally, after being told about 2LT Berry's feelings about his own gender, CPT Winters should have made it clear to him that, until Berry had been clinically diagnosed with gender dysphoria, completed treatment, and been medically cleared as stable, he would continue to recognized in the Army as male, and should meanwhile refrain from ordering other servicemembers to call him by pronouns that do not match his official service-recognized gender.


Archangel27 said:


> 3.  What does treating someone with "dignity and respect" mean, and how might or should it differ from what either a) broader society thinks it means or b) what the Army/military thinks it means?  Discuss.


a. Broader society has a melting pot of opinions on what this means, and they vary wildly between and within different subcultures, communities, and workplaces.
b. The Army/military's definition of what that means, within this context, does not permit for officers (or any other servicemembers) to order others to call them by pronouns that do not match what the Army/military officially recognizes as their gender.  Treating someone with 'dignity and respect' in this case does not infer a requirement to call a servicemember by anything other than their respective rank (in relation to the other servicemember) or officially recognized gender, and referring to them as otherwise would be construed as treating them with indignity and disrespect.


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## Archangel27 (Mar 7, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> To handle the situation with 2LT Berry better, CPT Winters could have referred to him as 2LT or LT, instead of SGT, after he told CPT Winters he wanted to bring something to his attention that wasn't easy for him to say.



This was a drafting error on my part.  My apologies, assume CPT Winters called 2LT Berry by the correct rank.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 7, 2022)

thanks @Archangel27 for moving out with this study.  And I'm grateful that we have a culture on the board that allows for thoughtful discourse on subjects like the one under discussion in this thread.

I'm also glad I'm not the one responsible for this one, which means it probably won't take 8 months to wrap up :)


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## Cookie_ (Mar 7, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> 1. What should CPT Winters tell SPC Casillas? Discuss.
> 
> 2. How could have CPT Winters handled the conversation with 2LT Berry better? Discuss.
> 
> 3. What does treating someone with "dignity and respect" mean, and how might or should it differ from what either a) broader society thinks it means or b) what the Army/military thinks it means? Discuss.



1. I'm with @ThunderHorse on this one. SPC Casillas gets his shit rocked for blatent disrespect. Might also be a good time to give the barney level example of what the Army expects from the EO policy; don't say mean shit to someone because you don't agree with their gender/race/identity/37 other things that fall under EO.

2. CPT Winters really dropped the ball here by not explaining policy further with 2LT Berry. 
If he had discussed further, he could have explained that seeing a medical provider is the first step in 2LT Berry affirming his gender identity; as such, 2LT Berry cannot present as his chosen gender (in the context of military time) at this time.

Due to this misunderstanding, 2LT Berry jumped to Real Life Expression (RLE) prior to a diagnosis of gender dysphagia.

3. Respect and dignity always boils down to the golden rule; treat others how you want to be treated. I sometimes take that further and tell my soldiers/staff you should treat others how you would if Mr. Rogers, your grandmother, or another figure you'd hate to disappoint were in the room.

I just completed training for the BOP, and the rule for how to treat inmates was essentially, "Don't be a dick or a pushover, always treat them according to policy and regs". I think that applies to the army as well.


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## Cookie_ (Mar 7, 2022)

This case study is very close to something I've been working on the past few months with a soldier.

The soldier felt comfortable enough to address the issue with the CO and myself, so we provided the guidance on what sort actions should be taken and what the soldier was to expect in the interim with presentation/acknowledgement of their gender.

Our problem arose not for an issue like 2LT Berry directing his whole platoon, but that soldier's "friend" and social media.

The soldier confided in another person that they were going to begin seeing a provider to discuss these issues. This other person then messaged a large number of the platoon to let them know that "X is a f***** and a t****".

I caught wind of it quick enough to squash it in the platoon before it got out. 
Had some closed door discussions to remind everyone that I don't care if they want to be called ewoks and make love to piles of moss, they'll still be treated like people and I expect that from all of them. The only thing important is that they do their jobs well and accomplish unit tasks.


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## Devildoc (Mar 7, 2022)

Can we dispense with service-specific abbreviations and acronyms?  I am burning up Google....

I don't like that we're here (or rather, some of you are here), but here we are... agree with above.  NCO needs appropriate ass-kicking, if the CAPT is unclear about policy he needs to learn it before advising the O1.  If the CAPT advised incorrectly, his boss needs to be in on it.  Golden Rule applies, always.  Aside from that, there needs to be some 'trust-building' between and among the team.  It's not like "Russell" is asking to be called "Rusty."  A whole gender change affirmation will rock everyone's world, and will absolutely erode trust in the O1.


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## Archangel27 (Mar 8, 2022)

Moving on to Part 2:

After dealing with SPC Casillas appropriately, CPT Winters calls 2LT Berry back into his office and gives the LT a counseling that instructs him on the appropriate procedures to follow for his gender situation. 2LT Berry agrees to stop asking the subordinates to call him "ma'am" and also to wait until DEERS and medical processes the gender change properly before fully changing to female pronouns.

A few weeks go by and CPT Winters doesn't hear any further news of it. However, Mrs. Casillas, angered over her husband's Article 15 and subsequent reduction in rank catches wind of an event going on in Fayetteville. The following Saturday morning, one of the libraries in town will be hosting a Drag Queen Story Hour and 2LT Berry is listed as one of the drag queens who will be reading stories. The advertisement for the event had no mention of 2LT Berry in his official capacity being there or any reference to the Army. Mrs. Casillas makes sure to bring this up at the Family Readiness Group meetings.  The outcry from the FRG reached a fever pitch at the post town hall meeting the Wednesday before the event, with some angry parents demanding to know why an 82d Airborne paratrooper would be doing such an event.

The blowback is such that CPT Winters is contacted by garrison and asked to order 2LT Berry to not go to the event. Should CPT Winters give the order?  What should he do in response?


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## R.Caerbannog (Mar 8, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> In consultation with @Marauder06, let me see how this works out.
> 
> --------------------
> 
> ...


1.) "SPC Casillas, your right, but my daughter needs braces. If 2LT Berry decides to raise a fuss my career path will be derailed and civilian health/dental insurance is expensive. Yes 2LT Berry is mentally ill and has no place in the armed forces, but he has us over a barrel. Right now, Lt Berry can openly act in such a grotesque manner because he has political top cover. SPC Casillas you and I do not have that luxury."

2.) "Hey LT, the company is conducting a surprise urinalyses/health and safety check. We need you to go to Womack, pee in a cup, and check your hormone levels. PLT SGT Smith will take over the platoon. You'll be fine, especially since you've been leading by example."

3.) The golden rule exists for a reason and cuts both way. You don't upend centuries of tradition and gender norms because of feelings or political fads. You conform to the military, not have it conform to you.



Archangel27 said:


> Moving on to Part 2:
> 
> After dealing with SPC Casillas appropriately, CPT Winters calls 2LT Berry back into his office and gives the LT a counseling that instructs him on the appropriate procedures to follow for his gender situation. 2LT Berry agrees to stop asking the subordinates to call him "ma'am" and also to wait until DEERS and medical processes the gender change properly before fully changing to female pronouns.
> 
> ...


Why did you have to drag the 82nd into this? Also this case study is becoming more and more insane. Are we actually going to discuss a "fictional" LT Berry exposing children to moral deviancy and potentially grooming them via example? Jesus, dude.


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 8, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> Moving on to Part 2:
> 
> After dealing with SPC Casillas appropriately, CPT Winters calls 2LT Berry back into his office and gives the LT a counseling that instructs him on the appropriate procedures to follow for his gender situation. 2LT Berry agrees to stop asking the subordinates to call him "ma'am" and also to wait until DEERS and medical processes the gender change properly before fully changing to female pronouns.
> 
> ...



Sounds more like a GOMOR is heading to both their files...


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## Locksteady (Mar 8, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> Should CPT Winters give the order?


If he wants to avoid initial blowback from his immediate CoC?  Probably.
If he doubts that it is a lawful order?  Probably not until his doubts are cleared.


Archangel27 said:


> What should he do in response?


If initial blowback from his CoC is the lesser concern for him, he should request to know what specific guidance they're citing to support the lawfulness of ordering soldiers to refrain from participating in nonpartisan activities outside of their official capacities in the Army.


R.Caerbannog said:


> Why did you have to drag the 82nd into this? Also this case study is becoming more and more insane. Are we actually going to discuss a "fictional" LT Berry exposing children to moral deviancy and potentially grooming them via example? Jesus, dude.


... Good to have you back, R.C.


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## Devildoc (Mar 8, 2022)

Honestly, makes me glad I can just say "fuck it, go see HR" and be done....


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## Archangel27 (Mar 11, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Honestly, makes me glad I can just say "fuck it, go see HR" and be done....



Certainly don't blame you there.  We're having to grapple with these issues in the here and now, though, as @Cookie_ noted.


ThunderHorse said:


> Sounds more like a GOMOR is heading to both their files...



I understand where you are coming from and the temptation is definitely there, but as @Cookie_  and @Locksteady have noted, since this is technically off of active duty and is not being done in an official capacity, the current guidance allows for that Real Life Experience to begin transitioning so long as it is off duty and not in uniform time.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32878-ARMY_DIR_2021-22-000-WEB-1.pdf  is the current guidance with regard to this issue. 

Even though the current policy is what it is, I do want to ask how would you try and find that balance between Soldiers doing what they want to do on their own time out of uniform versus the importance of group morale/cohesion since it already has been mentioned that this is a huge change that could erode that.  Any thoughts?


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 11, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> Certainly don't blame you there.  We're having to grapple with these issues in the here and now, though, as @Cookie_ noted.
> 
> 
> I understand where you are coming from and the temptation is definitely there, but as @Cookie_  and @Locksteady have noted, since this is technically off of active duty and is not being done in an official capacity, the current guidance allows for that Real Life Experience to begin transitioning so long as it is off duty and not in uniform time.
> ...



The issue that command will face here, and I'm talking from Corps Commander to Battalion Commander is that the officer is totally ok to do begin their transition off duty etc.  However, in the case study specifically it has a drag queen reading night in day in catered to five year old kids, which I also would consider a crime.  And depending on what state you're in, likely would be.  California? Maybe not depending on the city.  I doubt you do any of that stuff in Killeen.


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## Archangel27 (Mar 11, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> However, in the case study specifically it has a drag queen reading night in day in catered to five year old kids, which I also would consider a crime.  And depending on what state you're in, likely would be.  California? Maybe not depending on the city.  I doubt you do any of that stuff in Killeen.



Assume that we're not in Fayetteville anymore, but this is taking place in someplace like Charlotte.  Does that change your analysis?


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## Gunz (Mar 11, 2022)

Captain Winters should advise 2ndLT Berry that military officers, regardless of their sexual identity, should not be taking part in any public event off duty that has the potential to bring discredit to the uniform or the branch he/she/they serve. A drag queen reading event? Honestly? In front of children???

Having lived in Charlotte, I can tell you, that little event would garner just as much outrage as in Fayetteville. Charlotte’s bigger, probably has more LGBTQ folks…but it’s also old Bible Belt despite its cosmopolitan facade.

At this point Capt Winters should be getting pretty Goddamned frustrated with Lt Berry’s pushing the envelope on this thing. Bad enough he wanted 20-something paratroopers to start calling him “ma’am”… now he wants to sashay his ass in drag in a public library. His indiscretions now demand some intervention.

Capt Winters should recommend psychiatric treatment prior to any medical processing. If Lt Berry acts in such a way on or off duty to bring discredit to the uniform, he should be advised that disciplinary action could result.


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## Archangel27 (Mar 13, 2022)

Thanks everyone for taking part, and it's certainly been interesting to see the different reactions here and differences in opinion.

I understand that this is a difficult and sometimes fraught subject to talk about, given how politically charged this can get.  I appreciate also everyone being willing to share their experiences and how it can sometimes impact us directly.

I admit that I chose Drag Queen Story Hour for the second part of this case study to get a purposefully provocative reaction from everyone.  Although I concur with a fair amount of the analysis, it is difficult for me to personally see how a situation like that, given the right set of facts, would lead to significant blowback from chain of command if the Soldier is participating in a private capacity and not otherwise implicating the services.  @Locksteady's analysis is the one that I believe would happen in a real world situation since DQSH may not necessarily seem like a "partisan" issue just as the same principle is applied to gun rights, abortion, or Black Lives Matter currently within the DoD.

These are difficult questions and emotionally charged ones, but as @Cookie_ indicated, they are happening now and will likely begin to confront leaders today and in the near future as concepts as gender identity are more widely affirmed in the broader secular space.  A lot of this was prompted by the transgender policy training that we as JAGs had to undergo last year and some very interesting questions were asked.

I would like to thank @Marauder06 for giving me the opportunity to write this case study and also invite those interested to write their own case studies which I will gladly participate in.  I also welcome any feedback you may have about how to improve.  As you know, part of our job is to write out these vignettes for commanders to take away lessons and legal principles learned.  Anything I can do to become better at this is helping my development as well.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 20, 2022)

LAME!!!!!!!!!  NEW CASE STUDY IDEA.....

Tim, a 18B with a "few" deployments, is forced to give up his team time because his wife wanted a family.  He settles down, gets a degree in Finance and becomes a 1st LT in the 82nd.  Soon after his arrival to Fort Bragg, he gets sent to POLAND and decides to push into Ukraine on his own.  Torn between family and whats right....he finds himself on the first line fighting a war the media isn't portraying.

Why is the western media lying?

Why couldn't he leave his old ways behind him and settle down?

Tune in next time.........


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## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2022)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> LAME!!!!!!!!!  NEW CASE STUDY IDEA.....
> 
> Tim, a 18B with a "few" deployments, is forced to give up his team time because his wife wanted a family.  He settles down, gets a degree in Finance and becomes a 1st LT in the 82nd.  Soon after his arrival to Fort Bragg, he gets sent to POLAND and decides to push into Ukraine on his own.  Torn between family and what's right....he finds himself on the first line fighting a war the media isn't portraying.
> 
> ...


I actually think that's a really cool idea.  Kind of a Beau Bergdahl in reverse.


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I actually think that's a really cool idea.  Kind of a Beau Bergdahl in reverse.



We had that kinda in real life with the dude in the 10th Mountain and a graduate from West Point.  2014 Lawrence Franks was convicted of desertion and sentenced to four years in prison.  The difference between him and Bergdahl?  He joined La Legion Etrangere and fought in Afghanistan through multiple deployments and came back to the US voluntarily to face a courts martial for desertion. 

Bergdahl other than some Pre-Trial confinement never saw justice.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> We had that kinda in real life with the dude in the 10th Mountain and a graduate from West Point.  2014 Lawrence Franks was convicted of desertion and sentenced to four years in prison.  The difference between him and Bergdahl?  He joined La Legion Etrangere and fought in Afghanistan through multiple deployments and came back to the US voluntarily to face a courts martial for desertion.
> 
> Bergdahl other than some Pre-Trial confinement never saw justice.


I was talking about that guy with my students just a couple of weeks ago!  The context was "don't go running off to fight the Russians in Ukraine."


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## CQB (Mar 20, 2022)




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## R.Caerbannog (Mar 20, 2022)

CQB said:


> View attachment 39121


After the awards ceremony, betting the Crossfitter puts on a revealing outfit, giant stiletto heels, and heads off to read / interpretive dance at the nearest public school library. Cause Crossfit is all about giving back to the community.


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