# MARSOC A&S September/October 2011



## is friday (Jun 16, 2011)

Oorah gents. I'll be re-attending A&S, (hopefully in Sept. but my orders aren't official due to some hiccup in the paperwork process...) and wanted to bring together the candidates in this thread for some cooperation. I'm on Camp Pendleton right now until I leave and run a lot of MCMAP courses (particularly on Saturdays) that will help out your ruck times and overall fitness.

I'm also getting together with a few Marines that went through my first class or one prior to me that were selected to get some fine tuning done.

I encourage anyone that's going to be hooking and jabbing over there with me to link up with me or if you're in another area of the Corps to post your sitreps--ask for advice if you need it. I don't have all the answers, but I've made enough friends to get anyone help for everything necessary. I cannot and will not tell you what "goes on" at A&S--I can talk about the prep course all day, though. (They actually encouraged me to.)

Let's get some espirit de corps up in this thread.


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## is friday (Jun 21, 2011)

I'll go ahead and toss out some of my times as I follow the prep guide plus whatever "extra" stuff I'm doing.

A&S Short Card, *13:50* not including pull ups. (Going to have to switch over to doing it twice. Damn it, that's going to suck.)
300m swim in cammies, *13:20*. (Still trying to get back down to 11:30 or better.)
4 mile run in BnY, flak (2 sappies), ammo can (50 cal can filled w/ dirt,) rubber duck, *40:50*.


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## LM (Jun 23, 2011)

I got out right about when MarSoc came to be.  Whats the indoc process like? Im not familiar with the new PT test either, but from what I gathered on a few articles, that sounds like what your kinda describing.


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## Cochise (Jun 24, 2011)

is friday, what does the A&S Short Card consist of?  I don't know if you can share that with the group but it sounds like an arse kicker.  Is it anything like the BUD/S card?


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## is friday (Jun 24, 2011)

Cochise said:


> is friday, what does the A&S Short Card consist of? I don't know if you can share that with the group but it sounds like an arse kicker. Is it anything like the BUD/S card?


Yeah, that is public knowledge. It's just calisthenics "for time" like Crossfit.

30 push ups
30 air squats
30 crunches
10 burpees

30 push ups
30 mountain climbers
30 flutter kicks
10 burpees

30 push ups
30 star jumpers
30 back extensions
10 burpees

30 push ups
30 lunges
30 hello dollies
10 burpees

3 sets of max pull ups.

I put my hands at 45 degrees for the lower body exercises you execute on your back instead of under the ass. Makes for a better core work out.



LM said:


> I got out right about when MarSoc came to be. Whats the indoc process like? Im not familiar with the new PT test either, but from what I gathered on a few articles, that sounds like what your kinda describing.


I can tell you about the prep course but not A&S. The prep course was basically being treated like a college athlete. All we did was work out and learn about working out/other stuff. We had experienced folks from the SOF community mentoring us.


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## Cochise (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info, is friday.  That A&S card is indeed an awesome workout.


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## LM (Jun 24, 2011)

what does A&S stand for?

Reason im asking is because, being Army, ive debated the 18 series community, but I am not sure if I  want to do that, for whatever reason, I like the USMC way of thinkin and acting a bit better.  I recently saw a MARSOC proccess going down at a local training area and the thought crossed my mind to go back to the true green side.  Are there specific MARSOC recruiters that I would need to contact, obviously i need to talk to a reg recruiter to get me in, but i'd want to know about that first.  Any info is appreciated


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## unguided (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll be attending the September A&S with you. I have a question about A&S. How much is it focused on swimming?


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## unguided (Jun 24, 2011)

LM said:


> what does A&S stand for?
> 
> Reason im asking is because, being Army, ive debated the 18 series community, but I am not sure if I want to do that, for whatever reason, I like the USMC way of thinkin and acting a bit better. I recently saw a MARSOC proccess going down at a local training area and the thought crossed my mind to go back to the true green side. Are there specific MARSOC recruiters that I would need to contact, obviously i need to talk to a reg recruiter to get me in, but i'd want to know about that first. Any info is appreciated


 
It stands for Assessment and Selection.


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## LM (Jun 24, 2011)

Ahh, I should have been able to figure that one out then ay...


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## is friday (Jun 26, 2011)

unguided said:


> I'll be attending the September A&S with you. I have a question about A&S. How much is it focused on swimming?


I can't tell you about A&S. I can tell you that you'll swim quite a bit in the prep course, though.


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## 03cpl (Jun 26, 2011)

is friday said:


> I can't tell you about A&S. I can tell you that you'll swim quite a bit in the prep course, though.



I'm headed to ASPOC the same time as you and I was wondering if you could fill me in on what the prep course is like. I'm assuming from the gear list that you get liberty on the weekends, and I'm guessing that it's PT all day broken up with a few classes and chow. Any info would be appreciated.


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## is friday (Jun 27, 2011)

You pretty much summed it up.


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## 03cpl (Jun 27, 2011)

sounds good then. What kind of things do they cover in the classes?


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## mac21 (Jun 27, 2011)

Myself and 2 other Marines in my unit have orders for September. We're security forces, so I'm not sure how that is going to differ than someone from the fleet.


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## 03cpl (Jun 27, 2011)

Mac21- I don't know how it's going to work for you but I know how it works for me, and I have a feeling it goes this way for everyone. I go to ASPOC, then A&S, then no matter what, Selected or not, I go back to my unit. If your selected you have to wait until there is an available slot at the ITC (I don't know how long that takes, it could be right away). The only other thing I know is that there is the usual holiday leave block for ITC so the first course after the Sep/Oct A&S is sometime the beginning of next year.

I hope that info is helpful.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 27, 2011)

LM said:


> what does A&S stand for?
> 
> Reason im asking is because, being Army, ive debated the 18 series community, but I am not sure if I want to do that, for whatever reason, I like the USMC way of thinkin and acting a bit better. I recently saw a MARSOC proccess going down at a local training area and the thought crossed my mind to go back to the true green side. Are there specific MARSOC recruiters that I would need to contact, obviously i need to talk to a reg recruiter to get me in, but i'd want to know about that first. Any info is appreciated



Did an SF guy hurt your feelings or something?

.


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## mac21 (Jun 27, 2011)

03cpl said:


> Mac21- I don't know how it's going to work for you but I know how it works for me, and I have a feeling it goes this way for everyone. I go to ASPOC, then A&S, then no matter what, Selected or not, I go back to my unit. If your selected you have to wait until there is an available slot at the ITC (I don't know how long that takes, it could be right away). The only other thing I know is that there is the usual holiday leave block for ITC so the first course after the Sep/Oct A&S is sometime the beginning of next year.
> 
> I hope that info is helpful.



My previous post was pretty vague, but I already knew the process. By saying " I'm not sure how that is going to differ than someone from the fleet," I meant more along the lines of having the infantry mindset instead of the security mindset that I've had for the past 2 years. I do appreciate the reply though.


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## 03cpl (Jun 28, 2011)

mac21 said:


> My previous post was pretty vague, but I already knew the process. By saying " I'm not sure how that is going to differ than someone from the fleet," I meant more along the lines of having the infantry mindset instead of the security mindset that I've had for the past 2 years. I do appreciate the reply though.



No worries.

I keep hearing that more POGs (I'm not dogging on anyone here) and Reservists get selected than Grunts. That may not be true, but I can easily see how it could be the case. If anyone runs across any articles or info to prove that I'd love to read it.


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## is friday (Jun 28, 2011)

I hear the same thing. There's no published resource supporting that--it's just a rumor.


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## is friday (Jul 14, 2011)

Just checkin in...

Dropped my swim time (300m) to 12 mikes sidestroke in cammies. Still getting back into swimming shape--almost where I used to be at.

For my hikes I've been able to maintain 10 minute miles, or 6 mph. I am probably going to switch over from using an assault pack to train to an old school mountain ruck. I'm just using a 45lb dumbbell right now.

I can complete the Short Card on a good day in 11-12 minutes. On a bad day (read: smoked) it'll take me a full 20. I put my hands at a 45 degree angle on the ground instead of beneath my ass for the core calisthenics (flutter kicks and such.) I try to do each exercise with 100% proper form now.

I've acquired a map of Pendleton and I might end up spooling up a Marine or two on landnav at some point. I think the prep course is going to be more than enough for anyone--but it'll help ease their minds going in with a base knowledge.

Also: One Marine I know that should be going to the Sept/Oct class is jumping on my next MCMAP course and anyone else is very welcome to, even if you're not going for your next belt or whatever. The PT is going to be gooood.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 14, 2011)

I will be out in Oceanside in August. If you need land nav help I can give you some good guidance.


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## mac21 (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm getting right around the 9:45 mark for the swim. Long limbs really help. However, said long limbs also curse me on the short card, as I usually get around 25 minutes on them. I've always been a strong hiker, keeping about a 15 minute mile with juice still in the tank. I'm hoping the MAI course I'm doing right now helps out my short card time.


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## is friday (Jul 14, 2011)

Where are you doing MAIC? I went to the Pendleton satellite school back in April. Good stuff. It'll definitely put you in good calisthenics shape.


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## mac21 (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm doing it in the DC area. We've got an IT in my company so it makes things easy.


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## JrodBones (Jul 15, 2011)

03cpl said:


> No worries.
> 
> I keep hearing that more POGs (I'm not dogging on anyone here) and Reservists get selected than Grunts.



I'm a POG Reservist....Hmmm maybe I'd have double the chance. Ha ha.

I've actually heard the same thing.  A few guys said that it is because on the active side you focus on your job before anything else.  In some cases, you PT on your own making your fitness up to you.

Being a civilian 90% of the time I get to run / swim before work and then go to the gym during my lunch break.  It makes it easier becuase there isn't someone above me telling me where I have to be or what I have to do.  However, I lack on the tactical side that I'm sure a lot of the active guys shine in at A&S.

As far as a specific MARSOC article, look up the August 2010 Marine Corps Times article about it.
It says that they were specifically looking to fill positions from reservists because we bring different "skills" to the table.  I'm just assuming that may have had something to deal with that as well.


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## FIJI750 (Jul 20, 2011)

Glad to see this post up. I know a few guys that have gone through A&S who were selected and not selected. Here's what I got from talking to them: Those who came from a job that didn't require them spending a lot of time on their feet, came ill prepared. They did the 10 week prep but did little to nothing on top of that. Obviously the guys who spent alot of time on their feet and did the 10 week program were better prepared for the physical demands of A&S. More importantly you must be mentally and emotionally ready for what you're going to go through. The physical part of it should be a given, if you're in the right mindset to become a CSO then you're going to physically prepare yourself, if that's what you really want.

Hope you boys are pushing hard for the Sept class. I'm slotted in for the following class and will be starting the 10 week program next week and will post my results. I'm not in a combat arms MOS so I will be posting questions regarding land nav and such.

Lastly, if you haven't already, check out the Discovery Channel's documentary entitled "Two Weeks in Hell", which you can watch on YouTube. From what I've heard, it's eerie similar to A&S.


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## 03cpl (Jul 23, 2011)

is friday, when you hike are you trotting to get that pace? if not how the hell do you walk that fast?! Maybe I just have really short legs...

I've tried alternating between trotting and walking for a few minutes. I go faster, but I can't keep it up for more than 5 miles, at that point I'm walking so slow it doesn't help my pace any.


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## is friday (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah, you have to jog to get that pace. Right now, I'm paced to hit intervals after so many miles of running. I try not to run up hills. I can get about 6-8 miles before I have to start doing intervals. I *do not* recommend doing as I do until you've gradually worked up to that. I'm pretty sure I'm taking years off my life in order to compete, anyway.

Clarification: I'm not running with more than 45lbs in my pack. I would like to be capable of running as long as I am currently with a heavier ruck when I have to but we'll see what happens.


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## 03cpl (Jul 23, 2011)

I was jogging for a minute, then walking for a minute using the timer on my watch. I think I'm gonna end up with nightmares about that beeping sound lol. I ended up with a really sore Achilles tendon after doing that a few times so I stopped doing it. looks like I need to start again.


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## is friday (Jul 23, 2011)

If you're having tendon issues from it don't do that. When your muscles start failing that's when you feel it in your tendons and the stress automatically concentrates on joints/tendons, i.e. all of that extra weight will attack your knees and achilles heel.

Listen to your body and don't try it if it's hitting your tendons like that. You'll save yourself the serious injury.


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## mac21 (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh the difference a workout buddy can make. I dropped my time on the short card to 17:47, minus the pullups. Keep up the work gents!


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## is friday (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm finishing up a two day Semper Fit Combat Fitness Course today. For the most part I'm doing it to help me review my school work, (I'm doing personal trainer certs through Tuition Assistance,) but it is giving me some decent ideas for how to ramp up my current program. I'm thinking I'd like to add some Olympic-style lifts 3x a week to increase my explosive power.

Start off with some squats, deadlifts, and shoulder press-type stuff. Graduate to clean and press when I feel comfortable with all three of those.

I have also switched from chin-ups to overhand pull ups (finally) and am working to get those up to 20+ before mid-September. It shouldn't be a problem because I'm starting with my current max at 15.


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## Th3 Maelstr0m (Jul 26, 2011)

is friday said:


> I'm finishing up a two day Semper Fit Combat Fitness Course today. For the most part I'm doing it to help me review my school work, (I'm doing personal trainer certs through Tuition Assistance,) but it is giving me some decent ideas for how to ramp up my current program. I'm thinking I'd like to add some Olympic-style lifts 3x a week to increase my explosive power.
> 
> Start off with some squats, deadlifts, and shoulder press-type stuff. Graduate to clean and press when I feel comfortable with all three of those.
> 
> I have also switched from chin-ups to overhand pull ups (finally) and am working to get those up to 20+ before mid-September. It shouldn't be a problem because I'm starting with my current max at 15.


 
http://www.amazon.com/Essentials-St...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I'd strongly recommend this book, especially if you want to be a personal trainer & if you want to become a CSCS down the road. Science-backed studies. It's pretty dry but it's pretty interesting if you want to read about how to improve strength & conditioning the right way, not just how men's health tells us lol. We'll be using this book a lot in my Strength & Conditioning class in the Winter Semester (I'm an Exercise Science/Athletic Training major).

Good luck with your training & keep us posted on what all you are doing to prep.

Semper.


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## 03cpl (Jul 26, 2011)

Is Friday, I've got another question for you. Did anyone get dropped from ASPOC, or A&S (if you can say) for being outside height an weight standards?

I'm pushing the limit for my height and it's been an issue for the entire time I've been in the Corps. I've never been a fat body, I'm just short as hell and the H&W standard doesn't jive with my body type. My 1stsgt has been on my ass about losing weight, and that's not gonna happen unless I'm willing to run slower and do fewer pull ups because I'm starving :)


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## is friday (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't talk about A&S.

At ASPOC though--no. It's about performance. It's obvious to anyone with a brain whether or not you're in shape or not based on your performance.

You said you're starving, i.e. eating less than you should be? If you are, then your body automatically stores all the food you consume as a fat because your mind thinks you are literally starving. If you're going to be putting yourself through a rigorous training program you need to eat a plentiful amount of the right food groups. (Fruits & veggies!)


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## is friday (Jul 26, 2011)

Th3 Maelstr0m said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Essentials-St...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
> 
> I'd strongly recommend this book, especially if you want to be a personal trainer & if you want to become a CSCS down the road. Science-backed studies. It's pretty dry but it's pretty interesting if you want to read about how to improve strength & conditioning the right way, not just how men's health tells us lol. We'll be using this book a lot in my Strength & Conditioning class in the Winter Semester (I'm an Exercise Science/Athletic Training major).
> 
> ...


The personal trainer course I have right now is written by Hatfield, (one of the contributors toward that book.) Thanks. I'll check it out in the future.


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## 03cpl (Jul 26, 2011)

is friday said:


> I can't talk about A&S.
> 
> At ASPOC though--no. It's about performance. It's obvious to anyone with a brain whether or not you're in shape or not based on your performance.
> 
> You said you're starving, i.e. eating less than you should be? If you are, then your body automatically stores all the food you consume as a fat because your mind thinks you are literally starving. If you're going to be putting yourself through a rigorous training program you need to eat a plentiful amount of the right food groups. (Fruits & veggies!)



No I'm not starving, but I think my 1stsgt expects me too in order to lose the weight the Corps has decided I don't need. Thanks for the quick reply. I had assumed that this was the one place in the whole Marine Corps where common sense was more common. I'm glad to hear that's true.


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## Hitman2/3 (Jul 27, 2011)

I feel your pain. I'm 74" and 221lbs of raw steel and sex appeal :cool:, but according to the Marine Corps I'm over my max weight of 214 lbs. Now if my gut was hanging over my trousers then obviously I'm out of shape and disgusting. But considering I haven't run below a 270 PFT in over 8 years, one below 275 was a fluke, and look like a freaking poster boy for the Marine Corps in my Chucks you'd think common since would apply, it doesn't. I still get tapped and since my neck isn't particularly thick my BFC is 16% according to the DOD not too far from the max. Funny thing is that when I got it done professionally with the water displacement I was at 9.8%. Go figure. You should be good as long as you perform.


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## SkrewzLoose (Jul 29, 2011)

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/pages/info/

Hey WEASELTRON, how about reading and following the rules before you post?  Interesting that 2 of your 4 sentences start with "I know".  ;)


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## is friday (Jul 29, 2011)

WEASELTRON said:


> I know you can't talk about A&S, but how about giving us an idea on the issues YOU had in A&S. I know they give you feedback at the end of the course, which isn't classified. The information they give back is mostly on how/what you need to improve on, right? I'm reporting into ASPOC Sept 14th and of course the A&S course right after.


The counseling session I received at the end of A&S was for me, not for everyone on Shadowspear. The nature of the assessment is individual. My counseling session is not going to help anyone but me. They did not sit me down and say, "Here's what we're looking for and here's what you can tell your friends in order to get selected."

I understand you're just looking for "tips" or whatever, but the bottom line is that either you get selected because you are the type of Marine that they want or you will not be selected for a variety of reasons that they purposefully choose not to disclose.


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## Boon (Jul 29, 2011)

WEASELTRON said:


> I know you can't talk about A&S, but how about giving us an idea on the issues YOU had in A&S. I know they give you feedback at the end of the course, which isn't classified. The information they give back is mostly on how/what you need to improve on, right? I'm reporting into ASPOC Sept 14th and of course the A&S course right after.



How about giving an intro, per the membership rules?


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## Hitman2/3 (Jul 29, 2011)

is friday said:


> The counseling session I received at the end of A&S was for me, not for everyone on Shadowspear. The nature of the assessment is individual. My counseling session is not going to help anyone but me. They did not sit me down and say, "Here's what we're looking for and here's what you can tell your friends in order to get selected."
> 
> I understand you're just looking for "tips" or whatever, but the bottom line is that either you get selected because you are the type of Marine that they want or you will not be selected for a variety of reasons that they purposefully choose not to disclose.


 
Well said. To add to that, it defeats the purpose of having an assessment and selection if the candidates being assessed already know the answer to the question. A&S is meant to be tough and unpredictable because what we do is tough and unpredictable. Do you think the Taliban will tell you when they plan to attack, or that the village elder you think is friendly will tell you when he plans to screw you over? If your looking for a simple answer to a problem SOF is probably not for you. Go to A&S, give 100%, and do what you think is right. If you get selected then your what we're looking for. If you don't get selected its nothing personal it doesn't mean your not a good Marine it just means that at least for right now you don't have the qualities MARSOC is looking for. SOF is not for everyone.


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## is friday (Jul 29, 2011)

I think I've already said this on these forums, but I will reiterate that all the Marines that I met at A&S the first time I went were rockstars. Hands down, they were best Marines I've ever had the pleasure of working with... and my professional impression of them is most of the reason why I want to continue trying.


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## AWP (Jul 29, 2011)

This forum isn't to "G2" any SOF courses. Please keep the threads on track.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 30, 2011)

WEASELTRON said:


> I know you can't talk about A&S, but how about giving us an idea on the issues YOU had in A&S. I know they give you feedback at the end of the course, which isn't classified. The information they give back is mostly on how/what you need to improve on, right? I'm reporting into ASPOC Sept 14th and of course the A&S course right after.


 


SkrewzLoose said:


> http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/pages/info/
> 
> Hey WEASELTRON, how about reading and following the rules before you post? Interesting that 2 of your 4 sentences start with "I know". ;)


 


Boon said:


> How about giving an intro, per the membership rules?


 


WEASELTRON said:


> Note taken on reading the "rules" of a forum. <and a bunch of other stuff no one cares about>


 
If A&S has a "situational awareness" or "attention to detail" portion, I predict you will fail it miserably. The *second* person to remind you about an intro post is one of the owners of the site, and all you can say is "note taken," and then you do nothing about it? And you think you're going to make it in SOF... :-|

You are two posts in and you are already coming across as an egotistical prick. If your very next post isn't an intro as specified in the rules that you keep discarding, I will ensure you are banned from the site forever. If you break any site rule in the next 30 days, same thing. Stay or go, your choice. You don't come on to our site, flout our rules, and disrespect our members.

Will one of the many Marines we have on the site PLEASE help this young man offline before he steps on his crank again and gets perma-banned?

edit: never mind, once again I'm too late to save a new member from himself. Carry on, gentlemen.


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Question on the 10wk training routine -  I'm unsure what the hell it means by "6 mile run at race pace".  I think to myself, ok, race pace means haul ass right?  I did that a couple of times, but I burnt through my fuel long before the end of the 6 miles, so it's safe to say I lost all of those races :confused:.  The other day (yesterday) I paced myself and did alright, BUT I still had some fuel left.  I'm a little concerned about how fast we're supposed to be running the 6 miles in...  Is there a median that we should be at, like 40 min?  Any guidance is appreciated;).


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## is friday (Aug 2, 2011)

To be honest I'm not sure, either. So far as I gathered from the prep course and the prep guide, though--you need some sprints, some slow paced runs, and some in betweens to hit all muscle types/levels of intensity. So just pick three different days to run at different speeds/distances and you should be good.


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Do they have you run in boots at all during the prep course?


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## is friday (Aug 2, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Do they have you run in boots at all during the prep course?


Fo sho. They do a bit of both. I recommend Bates Lights (since they are getting anal about having EGAs on boots now.) You can burn through them quickly but if you get them soon'ish you should have enough time to break them in and not destroy them by the time the course begins. They make a world of difference. It's kind of hard to have proper running form with heavy boots that make you want to land either flat-footed or turn you into a heel striker. (Heel striking is *bad*.)


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Son of a gun!  Welp, I just bought two brand new pairs of Danners that are treating me very well so far.  I'm actually impressed on how much of a turn around they have shown me since I broke them in.  As far as running in boots goes - I've only done it during land nav, and when I ruck.  Looks like I'll be doing tomorrow's 400m's in boots...:cool:


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Do they give us land nav classes in ASPOC?  If so, do we go out and do individual land nav on their course, and what are the rules (roads are free game/stay off of roads/only allowed to kill one rabbit per meal).  I ask because in the gear list it said that we weren't allowed to bring protractors, and those are a must, you know.... I mean, I don't know about you but I can't eye a point in a 1 : 25,000 grid, and I sure as hell can't figure out an azimuth to walk.


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## is friday (Aug 2, 2011)

You'll be given everything you need, don't worry about that. They don't expect you to roll up into the prep course like Tommy Lee Jones and track down Benicio Del Toro. Yes, they will teach you to landnav during the prep course.


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

The emails from the admin at ASPOC are stressing that most Marines seem to be struggling with land nav during the course (you probably read that one, and the invite to the BBQ, haha).  The Green Berets have a great training facility out here, and their land nav course is top notch when it comes to dense terrain/unforgiving obstacles, so I've been wondering around the woods after work and on my weekends.  I'm just trying to fine tune my style though and if need be limit the amount of roads I use when finding my points incase at the prep course we aren't allowed to use roads, you know?


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## is friday (Aug 2, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> The emails from the admin at ASPOC are stressing that most Marines seem to be struggling with land nav during the course (you probably read that one, and the invite to the BBQ, haha). The Green Berets have a great training facility out here, and their land nav course is top notch when it comes to dense terrain/unforgiving obstacles, so I've been wondering around the woods after work and on my weekends. I'm just trying to fine tune my style though and if need be limit the amount of roads I use when finding my points incase at the prep course we aren't allowed to use roads, you know?


I haven't been at work in a week+ now because I'm on leave, so I haven't gotten that e-mail.


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Oops - You're dealing with West Coast MarSOC recruiters, I'm East.  That explains why you didn't get it last month.  Anyway, they stressed maturity issues and land nav, as well as ensuring we ruck like the routine says to.  Now you've got an idea of what the East Coast Marines are being fed.

What do you use in your ruck?


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## x SF med (Aug 2, 2011)

Guys - jumping in from the outside...  have you thought about joining Orienteering Teams in your respective AOs?  that is a great way to get the land nav and the running into a single operation while fueling your competitive spirit...

here's a wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering

and the Orienteering USA site:  http://orienteeringusa.org/

navigating away at high speed now....


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## is friday (Aug 2, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Oops - You're dealing with West Coast MarSOC recruiters, I'm East. That explains why you didn't get it last month. Anyway, they stressed maturity issues and land nav, as well as ensuring we ruck like the routine says to. Now you've got an idea of what the East Coast Marines are being fed.
> 
> What do you use in your ruck?


I just put a 45lb dumbbell in an assault pack with some other shit to stabilize the weight. I've been meaning to grab a proper ruck but there's something hardcore about rucking without a seatbelt or any real support that I like. (i.e. I just keep forgetting to load up my real pack.)

x SF med: That is fucking awesome. I am definitely hitting that up later this month. Thank you. :)


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 2, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Oops - You're dealing with West Coast MarSOC recruiters, I'm East.  That explains why you didn't get it last month.  Anyway, they stressed maturity issues and land nav, as well as ensuring we ruck like the routine says to.  Now you've got an idea of what the East Coast Marines are being fed.
> 
> What do you use in your ruck?



Two options for your ruck. It use to be, at least for Recon and Snipers, that a sand bag rolled with duck tape was put into the radio pouch of a mountain ruck. That's one option. I would suggest using primarily actual gear water and food since this will better distribute the weight and reflects reality and combine that with a smaller sand bag to meet your weight. Pluse it will give you practice on packing your ruck. A ruck that is packed all f'd up will wear you out mentally and physically pretty quick. Use everything you would use for real to make your weight. A pair of cammies, socks, foot care kit, maybe a poncho liner, water, food, and a smaller sand bag in your radio pouch.


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## HolyBear (Aug 2, 2011)

Hitman2/3 said:


> Two options for your ruck. It use to be, at least for Recon and Snipers, that a sand bag rolled with duck tape was put into the radio pouch of a mountain ruck. That's one option. I would suggest using primarily actual gear water and food since this will better distribute the weight and reflects reality and combine that with a smaller sand bag to meet your weight. Pluse it will give you practice on packing your ruck. A ruck that is packed all f'd up will wear you out mentally and physically pretty quick. Use everything you would use for real to make your weight. A pair of cammies, socks, foot care kit, maybe a poncho liner, water, food, and a smaller sand bag in your radio pouch.


That's exactly what I've been doing, minus the sand bag.  I bought my very own 5 gallon water jug, drew a smily face on it, and shoved that pig in my ruck.  If it's a Thursday, I pack my cammies, boots, camel pak and chow in it for the day also, and ruck my happy ass to work (live on a different base than I where I work).  On weekend rucks, I still throw my cammies and boots in there to help stabilize the pig.  I will definitely start packing a medical kit in there too, cause thats just brilliant.  Who knows what could happen.  Thanks for the tip!


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## Jdub31 (Aug 2, 2011)

Hitman is right, put items in your ruck that you need. Next thing you know your attempting a 12mile ruck and at 8 miles your feet are bleeding(not uncommon). There is no way to beast rucking then just rucking your ass off. Make sure you have the supplies you need and just destroy yourself. It's not fun what so ever but I assure you, you will be going against guys that have doing ruck runs for a while. Baselites are good from what I here, I have always used whatever I had but it's probably not smart. A good time for a 12 mile ruck 2 hours 30 min. As far as the land nav, practice, practice and practice. Try to get the sniper land nav points and use those for practice. If you can get those, you should be good. Just talk to whatever snipers you have nearby and see if you can run the land nav course with whatever presniper course they run.


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 2, 2011)

I was actually talking about a foot care kit, foot powder, mole skin, foot lube, fresh socks, etc. But I'm glad you reminded me because I meant to put the med kit in there. Running around the forest you never know what you might run into, fall off of or get snagged by. Obviously there are medical facilities available, but that doesn't help you when you go cross compartment and are a mile or more from the nearest road.


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## HolyBear (Aug 3, 2011)

is friday said:


> (Heel striking is *bad*.)


Heel striking is tricky.  I guess I have always ran like that, which might be the reason for my ankle being swollen today...  Any suggestions as to how I can fix my form?


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## is friday (Aug 4, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Heel striking is tricky. I guess I have always ran like that, which might be the reason for my ankle being swollen today... Any suggestions as to how I can fix my form?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1x3Ik1t5Y
amateur trying to improve his form. (He's not perfect in the after, keep in mind.)

Usain Bolt jogging:
http://youtu.be/kgIUE8BPw-c

The pose method doesn't work for everybody, but try it out and keep to the basics of it. (Push forward with your hips. Keep your upper body straight. "Fall" forward. Don't stretch out your legs. Land on the balls of your feet.)


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## 03cpl (Aug 4, 2011)

Alright I finally feel comfortable posting my times up here, so here it goes,

300m swim, Breast stroke- 7:30-7:45 depending on how I feel. (I'm at the pool every week swimming in an old set of BDU's, which gathers more attention than I like but it has to be done).
300m sidestroke- 9:30, I always do this after the breast stroke so this probably isn't the fastest I can do it. I prefer Breast stroke over side stroke but I want to be able to do both if the need arises.
Hike time- I've been focusing on speed the last couple weeks and I've been making steady progress. I'm down to 13min per mile, and I'm continuing to improve.  This week I'm going to add a 15 mile hike to the two 5 miles I've been doing every week.
A&S card x1- Just added five reps this week and I'm still a little under twenty minutes. Next week I plan to add another five reps and see how it goes. I'm doing the A&S card twice a week, one day just once the other I give it two runs. I can keep good form until the last set then my form starts to suffer. When I do it twice the second run is disgusting but at that point I think it's more about the mind than the body :)
Other stuff- Pull ups are looking pretty good, I can get two good sets of twenty out without a lot of trouble. My run times are making very slow progress, I'm shooting for 19:00min (or better) for 3 miles. Right now I'm running up and down hills, which screws with my head and I end up with poor times, usually around 22-23 minutes, but I'm getting closer to my goal.

I hope this fosters a little more competition. Is Friday, you've got my ass beat when it comes to rucking! I'm gonna give you a run for your money at A&S though!


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## HolyBear (Aug 4, 2011)

is friday said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1x3Ik1t5Y
> amateur trying to improve his form. (He's not perfect in the after, keep in mind.)
> 
> Usain Bolt jogging:
> ...


Haha holy crap, I've been running wrong since I was five!  Alright, I can't wait to see how I feel during/after my runs now.


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## HolyBear (Aug 4, 2011)

03cpl said:


> Alright I finally feel comfortable posting my times up here, so here it goes,
> 
> 300m swim, Breast stroke- 7:30-7:45 depending on how I feel. (I'm at the pool every week swimming in an old set of BDU's, which gathers more attention than I like but it has to be done).
> 300m sidestroke- 9:30, I always do this after the breast stroke so this probably isn't the fastest I can do it. I prefer Breast stroke over side stroke but I want to be able to do both if the need arises.
> ...



Wicked times 03.  Your swim time is definitely spot on.  I'm comfortable in the water but nothing compared to you.  I'm usually around 11:00 for 300m, and that's alternating between the breast and side stroke.  You've given me the motivation to live in the pool until ASPOC because now my times look ridiculous, ha-ha good on you.  My short card time x2 is 41 min including the pull-ups.  I also just added 5 reps to my sessions, not that it's too easy, but I know I'm capable of more reps.  My 400m runs are getting better, but I'm still not happy with them.  I went from 91 seconds down to 72 seconds.  I know that's not great but I'm still working hard on that part of my training.  Distance running is better for me.  Rucking, huh there is no enjoyment in it except for the end, which is why I haul.  I'm doing one 20 mile in before I go to ASPOC just to see how my body will react.  The last time I added miles to the long weekend ruck I pulled 2h:53 min on a 15 miler.  

Since I started the 10wk routine I've lost 17lbs, putting me at 203lbs.  I completed the entire plan 3 weeks ago, so now I'm just repeating wk9/10 as a minimum like they suggest.  I do 2-a-days through the week because I still enjoy my own lifting routine at the gym.  Some weeks it takes away from my strength during the short card, but then on other weeks I feel wicked.

I had a funny situation occur the other week when I was swimming.  I can't wear my uniform out here in Germany, so I used a hoody and jeans instead.  I was fine for a couple of weeks, but then out of nowhere some douche kicked me out of the pool for wearing clothes, and during his high and mighty moment, proceeded to harass me by saying, "Vhat, you live in Deutschland jaaa, you should speak Dutch".  I laughed at the dude because he has no idea how bad his life would've been if we didn't fuck up the Germans back in the day.


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## is friday (Aug 4, 2011)

You two are doing great with your rucking and swimming. (Both of you are swimming a great deal faster than me!) If you guys haven't, add a rubber duck (rifle) to your rucking if possible. Carrying it definitely jacks up your momentum, but we were rucking with ducks in the prep course.

I think most of the reason why I'm a quick rucker is because I run with weight so often during my MCMAP courses. Hell, I run the sprints and distance with flak some weeks as a part of my schedule--inevitably I end up doing shit like that as part of whatever course I'm teaching. We'll see how fast I actually am when I get to A&S--I still burn out on jogging straight through at about miles 5-7 and have to switch to intervals. It depends on my speed. I definitely can't maintain a PFT pace!

I encourage you guys to keep pushing yourselves but don't neglect to take a day off not according to the schedule... but according to your body. If you keep rucking more than the schedule calls for and you start feeling it in your heels/knees/wherever, you need to *stop*... take a break. That's the way toward overuse injury, especially if you're doing some weighted travel. Also, do not let your ruck exceed 45lbs.

I was taught that when you hike with weight it is 3x's the normal stress on your joints, and when you run it is 5x's. So be careful and don't break yourself before you get to A&S. There will be plenty of that.


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm on leave and going stir crazy, so here's some advice for the hump. It sounds like you guys are doing pretty good for times. Here are some pointers that you may have already figured out but humping isn't something that you just naturally know so here you go.

1. I don't know if they're still letting you wear whatever boots you want during A&S as long as they're tan. If they are I recommend almost anything other than the issued boots. I'm partial to Original Duties myself. If you've never worn any other boots you instantly feel the difference in how they fit your feet. If your stuck with the issued boots make sure they're broke in but not broken. If your sole has craps or is starting to separate from the body or you have spots in your boot that are worn through past the initial material get some new ones. Don't use the heavy ass ICB's for A&S you'll be lugging around an extra pound per foot, good for training not for the real thing. Also if you have time to try them out and get use to them get some super feet insoles, they're awesome.

2. Don't be cheap on your socks go get some smart wool socks and sock liners. Once again the regular issued socks suck. They're great for walking around in garrison, not so good for covering over 20k a day. I used smart wool socks with five finger sock liners for sniper school, getting ready for A&S, and A&S, granted my feet were already pretty broken in but with all of the things we did I only got a hot spot once, no blisters even with the issued boots during sniper.

3. DON'T tape your feet with riggers tape in an attempt to ward off blisters. Every single person that tried that one did one of two things. They either completely screwed up their feet and got dropped or had to take time to stop and take the tape off. Prep your feet and boots well in advance and you shouldn't have too many problems. If you do start to get hot spots use mole skin. Your BAS may have some or you can go to almost any drug store.

4. Take care of your feet. Do all the above, change your socks often, use foot powder, air them out when you can, make sure your toe nails are properly trimmed. A good majority of guys that probably could have at least completed the course had to quite or got dropped because their feet looked like hamburger. They probably had gone for a few 5 to 15 mile humps every couple of days or more without doing any of the above and thought they were good. There are no days to rest at A&S sometimes not even hours. You will move a lot with very little rest, you have to take care of your feet.

4. Push yourself, but pace yourself. All I could do was shake my head when we started our individual hump. More than half the guys took off running on a unknown distance hump. There was only one person that actually ran the whole thing and he was a freak. I began towards the rear of the pack for the first half of the movement and finished 8th out of everybody. A fair amount of the people that took off running never finished, I passed them sprawled out on the side of the road looking like they had just seen Jesus, and the ones that did came in middle to last. I started off at a fast walk for the first mile or so to warm up and then started doing intervals of running for a few hundred yards fast pace walk for a few hundred. Do what works for you, if you can run the whole thing good on you, but keep in mind A&S is not a one event course. You probably won't have time to completely refuel your tank so do the math.


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## is friday (Aug 4, 2011)

According to the equipment list I was given Hitman 2/3, no--they want EGAs on your boots. When I went through in January they didn't really care so far as I could tell.

Finally put together my pack. The weight distribution seems 50x's easier than what I had going on with my deadweight assault pack, and it is fairly similar to what I had going on at the prep course. I believe my cockneyed plan to make the early part of my work-up harder got me some good returns. I am looking forward to seeing how fast I am today during my 5 miler.

edit after hike:
I was able to maintain my 10m mile pace with the change in gear. I'm going to try keeping a similar pace for my longer distances without burning out.


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## 03cpl (Aug 4, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Wicked times 03. Your swim time is definitely spot on. I'm comfortable in the water but nothing compared to you. I'm usually around 11:00 for 300m, and that's alternating between the breast and side stroke. You've given me the motivation to live in the pool until ASPOC because now my times look ridiculous, ha-ha good on you. My short card time x2 is 41 min including the pull-ups. I also just added 5 reps to my sessions, not that it's too easy, but I know I'm capable of more reps. My 400m runs are getting better, but I'm still not happy with them. I went from 91 seconds down to 72 seconds. I know that's not great but I'm still working hard on that part of my training. Distance running is better for me. Rucking, huh there is no enjoyment in it except for the end, which is why I haul. I'm doing one 20 mile in before I go to ASPOC just to see how my body will react. The last time I added miles to the long weekend ruck I pulled 2h:53 min on a 15 miler.
> 
> Since I started the 10wk routine I've lost 17lbs, putting me at 203lbs. I completed the entire plan 3 weeks ago, so now I'm just repeating wk9/10 as a minimum like they suggest. I do 2-a-days through the week because I still enjoy my own lifting routine at the gym. Some weeks it takes away from my strength during the short card, but then on other weeks I feel wicked.
> 
> I had a funny situation occur the other week when I was swimming. I can't wear my uniform out here in Germany, so I used a hoody and jeans instead. I was fine for a couple of weeks, but then out of nowhere some douche kicked me out of the pool for wearing clothes, and during his high and mighty moment, proceeded to harass me by saying, "Vhat, you live in Deutschland jaaa, you should speak Dutch". I laughed at the dude because he has no idea how bad his life would've been if we didn't fuck up the Germans back in the day.



72 secs for 400m is very impressive. 90 seconds is a 6 minute mile. I'm not gonna lie, running is not my strong suit.


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## HolyBear (Aug 5, 2011)

is friday said:


> You two are doing great with your rucking and swimming. (Both of you are swimming a great deal faster than me!) If you guys haven't, add a rubber duck (rifle) to your rucking if possible. Carrying it definitely jacks up your momentum, but we were rucking with ducks in the prep course.
> 
> I think most of the reason why I'm a quick rucker is because I run with weight so often during my MCMAP courses. Hell, I run the sprints and distance with flak some weeks as a part of my schedule--inevitably I end up doing shit like that as part of whatever course I'm teaching. We'll see how fast I actually am when I get to A&S--I still burn out on jogging straight through at about miles 5-7 and have to switch to intervals. It depends on my speed. I definitely can't maintain a PFT pace!
> 
> ...


Good guidance all around, especially on the rucking with a rubber duck.  I am going to start rucking with a stick that is similar in weight.  I land nav with a stick, but it's primary use is beating bushes to hell and protecting myself incase a boar is doing some land nav too.


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## HolyBear (Aug 5, 2011)

03cpl said:


> 72 secs for 400m is very impressive. 90 seconds is a 6 minute mile. I'm not gonna lie, running is not my strong suit.


Thanks 03.  I searched around online and read that doing 50-60 seconds is good time, but if 72 sec is good, I think I've been reading threads that are based around competition runners...:confused:


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## is friday (Aug 5, 2011)

Yeah, good sprints will obviously depend on the body type. If you are running out of gas at 90 second laps then you're probably not going to be running an 18 minute 3 miler.

The way I'm attacking the short card is a little different than the strategy you guys have. I just completed my first short card of today in 15:01. Not my best time (that's 11:05ish, and I almost died afterward--not to mention my form was probably all kinds of dicked up.) Ever since I hit under the 20:00 mark with it I have tried to improve my form and be sure I am putting as much explosive energy into the burpie jumps as possible. For example: I stop and rest when my hips start to sag or my star jumpers are not decently explosive. I also have my hands at 45 degrees to my side when I am doing exercises on my back instead of having my hands under my ass because it is more core intensive. (Try it!) I know the prep guide says to add more exercises if you are hitting under 20:00 or do it twice--but I am being very hesitant about that. There is no reason for me to hit up the short card back-to-back if in the second set my form is going to be shitty. I won't be getting any benefits if my hips are sagging during push ups or I'm doing some sluggish burpies or any number of things.

I generally wait until the second half of the day to hit the 2nd short card so that I can keep good form.


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## HolyBear (Aug 5, 2011)

Good idea on the Short Card training isfriday.  I can relate to you in the feeling of dying after doing the S/C like a villain - I wish those days happened more often.  Definitely going to try out the hands at 45 degrees!  I've had my hands right at my sides (not under me):-/.  I have decent form, but I can't say I'm consistent with my speed AND form.  I have to go really slow sometimes in order to have perfect form on my Burps/Lunges.
 Doing the S/C times two really helps me with my overall endurance, even if my form isn't the greatest, I'm still building my lungs and mind to shred myself for longer periods of time - Does that make sense?:confused:

When you do one set of the S/C twice a day (the x2 S/C on Friday's), do you feel that you're robbing yourself of endurance in the long run since you're sacrificing endurance for form?


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## is friday (Aug 5, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Good idea on the Short Card training isfriday. I can relate to you in the feeling of dying after doing the S/C like a villain - I wish those days happened more often. Definitely going to try out the hands at 45 degrees! I've had my hands right at my sides (not under me):-/. I have decent form, but I can't say I'm consistent with my speed AND form. I have to go really slow sometimes in order to have perfect form on my Burps/Lunges.
> Doing the S/C times two really helps me with my overall endurance, even if my form isn't the greatest, I'm still building my lungs and mind to shred myself for longer periods of time - Does that make sense?:confused:
> 
> When you do one set of the S/C twice a day (the x2 S/C on Friday's), do you feel that you're robbing yourself of endurance in the long run since you're sacrificing endurance for form?


No. After two minutes of any activity you are hitting your slow twitch muscle fibers. So by breaking it up into two sets I can hit my Strength-Power, Sustained-Power, and Anaerobic Power-Endurance twice instead of all of those once.

Strength-Power: 0-3 seconds all out effort. (Power lift, high jump, throwing an object.)
Sustained-Power: 0-10 seconds near max effort. (Sprints.)
Anaerobic Power-Endurance: 1-2 minutes. (400 meter dash, 100-yard swim.)
Aerobic-Endurance: 2+ minutes.

So you may have wondered all your life why you don't really need to breathe for the first 10 seconds of a sprint, (I did--because I had the bad habit of not doing so....) This is why. Your energy systems are divided into different categories that involve your ATP/CP energy pathways, lactic acid, and oxidative pathways.

It's fine if you want to power through both rounds of the short card back-to-back, but you're going to be working your Aerobic (oxidative) pathway primarily. I'm using the short card for Strength since I'm not lifting weights. If you're lifting weights (deadlifts, squats, etc.) then that's perfectly fine and you won't be any worse off from it. Just don't neglect your back and make sure that you're getting strength training to go along with your endurance exercise.

15-20 minutes of 100% proper form calisthenic exercise is more than enough to kill anybody that's going as fast as they can manage. Getting proper form is going to burn you out in a much more meaningful way than just trudging through it and half-assing it, anyway. I am still well under 20 minutes and I take quite a few "breathers" during the card in order to maintain good form. (Fuck you, star jumpers!)

My advice: Eat a lot of calories if you're going to go SC back-to-back. You're going to lose muscle that way if you don't keep yourself well-fed.

If anyone with more knowledge on the subject wants to pitch in I'd be more than happy to take some professional advice on the matter. I'm just a student, after all.


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## HolyBear (Aug 6, 2011)

is friday said:


> No. After two minutes of any activity you are hitting your slow twitch muscle fibers. So by breaking it up into two sets I can hit my Strength-Power, Sustained-Power, and Anaerobic Power-Endurance twice instead of all of those once.
> 
> Strength-Power: 0-3 seconds all out effort. (Power lift, high jump, throwing an object.)
> Sustained-Power: 0-10 seconds near max effort. (Sprints.)
> ...


Holy bear turds...  I had to read this a couple of times, and still I don't think I fully comprehend what you mean.  The few things I knew about you're spot on with.  Did you learn this in ASPOC, or are you taking college classes?  I took a Nutrition class last year and all that I got from it was how to read food labels, do my BMI, and create diet plans - pretty elementary compared to what you unleashed.  I think the good thing about me is that all I do is eat.  Chow is continuous in my eyes.  I'm the guy that everyone hates at work because I'm demolishing six hard boiled eggs (only 3 yolks) and a 1lb of low fat cottage cheese right when I get to work.  They talk shit, but I always tell them that I will stop when start to look like them in my uniform (stuffed bag of cat assholes  - The reservists I work with are gross).


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## is friday (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm enrolled in a Personal Trainer cert through Tuition Assistance. http://issaonline.com


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## HolyBear (Aug 7, 2011)

Yesterday's long night ruck was sick, but I have some concerns.  Hitman 2/3 mentioned we should pace ourselves, because Assessment isn't a one event evaluation.  I did my best on the ruck, I got a wicked time, but I was next to useless afterwards, and I had cuts on my hips from the waist strap.  If I pull shit like that during A&S, I think I would screw myself.  With that being said, doing my very best puts me down for the count, so is it safe to say that we as individuals should find our happy medium before we go to Assessment (do the best we can do while saving fuel for whatever they throw our way next, and focus on staying consistent with our medium throughout the evaluation)?  Any guidance on this idea would be great.

The other concern I have is the cuts I have.  Any remedy for preventing those straps from rubbing the skin off in the future?


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 7, 2011)

You pretty much nailed it. You don't want to be dragging ass, but you can't go balls to the wall either. If it was a single event, or even a single day then sure leave it all on the field. But in this case you'll need to be good for multiple days and events. Think of it like a marathon, to finish with a good time you have to push to the limit of your jogging, but if you push past that into the sprint area you'll run out of gas long before you finish. You may be able to sustain a slow sprint for a mile or two but you'll never finish the 24 miles. The moral being push to your limit but your limit for that evolution. Find the pace at which you know your pushing it, but you know you can maintain it. Also keep in mind there's nothing to say that towards the end of an event, just like the end of a PFT run, you can't pick up the pace to get just a little bit more under your time.

As far as the cuts go, if its the kidney pad that is rubbing you raw take a piece of iso mat that is slightly larger height wise than the actual pad and use riggers tap to secure it to the pad. Tap it from top to bottom so that as the pack moves up and down the only thing that is rubbing is the smooth portion of the tape. You'll probably have to play with it to get it just right but you should see instant improvement. If its the straps, which you should be using, you can try the same thing. Unfortunately with the old school ruck that you have to use this is kind of unavoidable on long fast paced movement, but the iso and tape should help.

Just keep in mind, your going to be hurting and its going to suck. You'll get hot spots, tired feet, scratches, bruises, etc. But that's just part of the deal, the thing that you don't want to have happen is that you get broken or so smoked that your delirious and unable to perform.


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## is friday (Aug 7, 2011)

When I went through earlier this year they were forbidding Marines from "modifying" their packs in order to make them more comfortable like that. You'll just have to suffer through it once you get there, HolyBear.


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 7, 2011)

Well it is what it is. The good new is it won't kill you. If it becomes that big of a problem you could try the mole skin over the areas that are getting rubbed. Just have to make sure its big enough that the ruck won't peel it of from any of the sides.


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## 03cpl (Aug 8, 2011)

I just read Hitman's previous post,
You could always make a piece of Isomat with belt loops then run you belt through it so it sits under your packs waist strap. It'll look retarded, but hey you didn't modify the pack... :)

Holy bear I know what you mean. I have an Alice pack that I hump with and the kidney pads always leave some pretty wicked sore sports on my sides. I don't know what your wearing when you hump, but I found that a smooth moisture wicking shirt (read Under Armor) helps. Instead of grabbing my skin it just slides around over the top and doesn't leave me nearly as sore. I haven't tried wearing a blouse over the top, I'll give it a try on my next hump and tell you how it goes.


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## HolyBear (Aug 8, 2011)

I've had this issue for a while now.  It only happens when I go on long rucks though, the small 5 milers don't bother me.  I don't feel anything when I'm rucking, but after my clothes stick to my sides, and when I sleep I stick to my bed which makes for a nasty mess to clean up in the morning.  It would be awesome if come Assessment I have callosed sides, haha dragon style!

Isfriday/03  - How do you two think you'll do with being in teams?  Do you get along/work well with others?


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## 03cpl (Aug 8, 2011)

Honestly, I'm not worried about how I'll fit in on a team yet, A&S is first. But since you asked-

I'm looking forward to working alongside people that love their jobs, and are truly good at what they do. I know that being around people like that will make me work harder and push myself further. I think I work well with others, but I do keep to myself a lot of the time. I was that nerdy kid at school that knew everything about Star Trek... Now I'm that nerdy Marine that knows all these obscure stories from the history of the Corps, or picks up a new piece of equipment and gets all excited and is like "Wow, I've read about these, Are we getting them issued?!"

I dunno how I'm gonna do on a Team. I'm sure I'll find a niche.


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## HolyBear (Aug 9, 2011)

The word I've received from SF guys is that there are team events in A&S.  It makes sense because we're trying out for an elite field of work that involves small detachments (ranging in numbers) working together to accomplish missions in special operations.  From what I've learned working in small detachments, there is absolutely zero room for conflicting personalities or narcissistic individuals.  You either all click like clock work, or crumble like a house of poorly stacked cards.  I enjoy working in team settings, because there is that sense that everyone is thinking/feeling in unison, and once that's observed/mastered the team becomes deadly as hell no matter how adverse the environment is.

As for star trek, I can't say that I was into the show, but when I was little I use to sit with my face against the TV during the beginning of the show and when the ship would blast towards the screen, I'd roll backwards like it blew me away from the TV, that shit was a rush!


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## 03cpl (Aug 9, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> The word I've received from SF guys is that there are team events in A&S. It makes sense because we're trying out for an elite field of work that involves small detachments (ranging in numbers) working together to accomplish missions in special operations. From what I've learned working in small detachments, there is absolutely zero room for conflicting personalities or narcissistic individuals. You either all click like clock work, or crumble like a house of poorly stacked cards. I enjoy working in team settings, because there is that sense that everyone is thinking/feeling in unison, and once that's observed/mastered the team becomes deadly as hell no matter how adverse the environment is.
> 
> As for star trek, I can't say that I was into the show, but when I was little I use to sit with my face against the TV during the beginning of the show and when the ship would blast towards the screen, I'd roll backwards like it blew me away from the TV, that shit was a rush!



I thought you meant after A&S :)

I know what you mean about how deadly a team can be. I love those moments when your team pulls off something awesome without even trying... I love that feeling. I'm gonna sound like a boot but-I've had my fire team perform flawlessly on ranges and afterwards it's such a good high.

I don't know how the team events will play out. I can't imagine a ton of straight up assholes and douche-bags making it very far in A&S. I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine that happening. It just doesn't fit. I really don't see myself, tired, hurting, hot, and probably hungry wasting energy fighting with anyone on my team, regardless of how much I don't like them. I know for sure I'll be thinking about how to accomplish the mission without expending any more energy than is necessary though :)


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## HolyBear (Aug 9, 2011)

Sounds like we've both experienced team oriented training, which is awesome!

How many times have you guys puked on yourselves during the 10wk program?  (Holybear=1 pool session/1 Short Card session)


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## Th3 Maelstr0m (Aug 9, 2011)

Not that it's necessary, since hitman & is friday are giving such awesome advice, but I found an ebook from National Strength & Conditioning Association that deals with training the "tactical athlete." It's written for people planning to go to SFAS, but could help in A&S prep as well. Good luck to you all.

http://www.uscg.mil/worklife/docs/pdf/SFAS prep book.pdf


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## 03cpl (Aug 9, 2011)

Th3 Maelstr0m said:


> Not that it's necessary, since hitman & is friday are giving such awesome advice, but I found an ebook from National Strength & Conditioning Association that deals with training the "tactical athlete." It's written for people planning to go to SFAS, but could help in A&S prep as well. Good luck to you all.
> 
> http://www.uscg.mil/worklife/docs/pdf/SFAS prep book.pdf


That looks like a pretty good resource. I just glanced through it and I'll give it a more thorough read later. Thanks!


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## CDG (Aug 10, 2011)

Poking my head in here to ask if any of you have looked at Military Athlete.  MA also has a Selection Prep Program that has gotten very good reviews from people who've successfully completed SFAS. Personally, I think the style of training he utilizes is far more beneficial and effective than doing 3 sets of 12 lat pulldowns and curls.  PM me if you'd like to take a look at the program.


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## is friday (Aug 13, 2011)

I've been under the weather for the past couple of days, so I missed the short card double yesterday. Going to get around to that this morning after I eat breakfast.


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## HolyBear (Aug 15, 2011)

is friday said:


> I've been under the weather for the past couple of days, so I missed the short card double yesterday. Going to get around to that this morning after I eat breakfast.


Good shit.  I remember doing the short card when I was congested - big mistake:sick:.

All the best to you during your training in the next couple weeks isfriday/03.  I'm heading back to the states here in a couple days to finish up my own preparation in the Sierra's, and to get some good family/camping time in to ease myself before I report in.  See you at ASPOC.


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## mac21 (Aug 15, 2011)

My buddy and I completed the 12 miler on Saturday. The thing we have found that bothers us the most on humps is the boredom. But I don't think boredom itself has ever killed anyone...

But it's game time, with ASPOC only a month away. Keep up the work gents.


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## HolyBear (Aug 15, 2011)

Haha you all are some warriors!!  I'm either going to get smoke checked BAD during A&S, or maybe I'm rucking wrong and need to fix my shit before I go, because what bothers me during rucks is the feeling of Satan smearing his burning gooch on my central nervous system...:confused:


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## mac21 (Aug 15, 2011)

Well the ruck is obviously uncomfortable, but we somehow put it aside. But humping has always been a strong suit of mine, as I'm considerably larger than most.


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## 03cpl (Aug 15, 2011)

mac21 said:


> My buddy and I completed the 12 miler on Saturday. The thing we have found that bothers us the most on humps is the boredom. But I don't think boredom itself has ever killed anyone...
> 
> But it's game time, with ASPOC only a month away. Keep up the work gents.



To combat the boredom I sing songs to myself, usually Christmas songs... I know it sounds retarded but it seems to take my mind off things. Either that or I pray really hard that I'll finish within my goal time. :)


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## mac21 (Aug 15, 2011)

We've been cheating for the double digit hikes and bringing iPods, but other than that I let my mind wonder. Or like you said, sing random songs.


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## 03cpl (Aug 15, 2011)

mac21 said:


> We've been cheating for the double digit hikes and bringing iPods, but other than that I let my mind wonder. Or like you said, sing random songs.



I think everyone in my neighborhood thinks I'm nuts. I'm the crazy short kid up at the crack of dawn singing jingle bells under my breath and running down the road with a pack on.


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## is friday (Aug 16, 2011)

I think I'm in a pretty good place with my cardio. I ran the second half of my 10 miler ruck this past Saturday and became too fatigued to continue running (at the finish) before I ran out of breath. Anything short of sprints for an extended period or the short card at a very fast pace (15 minutes or less,) does not wear down my cardiovascular system.

I'm still working on getting my last 1-2 pull ups. I'm stuck around 18-19 after switching from chin ups to overhand. Going to standard pull ups was the best decision of my Marine Corps career and I should have made the switch years ago.

My swimming still sucks. I'm going to make an effort to get into the pool 2-3 times a week instead of once.


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## HolyBear (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah, I'd say you're mint in the cardio department if you're running 5 miles while wearing your ruck.  Your swimming shouldn't be too far behind either with that kind of endurance.  The pull-ups will come, but if you want to speed it up, and you don't mind being sore for a couple days, look into weighted pull-ups.  When I start feeling like my pull-ups are weak, I throw on the belt and hang a plate off of the chain, and bang out as many sets as it takes me until I reach 50.  In between the sets I stretch my lats.  It's a pretty painful session, but once I heal up I notice that my body feels lighter and 20 comes easy again.

I left out the ruck last weekend and just focused on legs in the gym.  The next morning I was walking like a baby Giraffe!  This is exactly what I needed because rucking wasn't making me sore.  This little stunt put me back this week though, because yesterday my legs were still fucked and I couldn't run.  This coming weekend I'm looking at doing a dead lift session in the morning before I ruck in the evening.  I'm hoping it will boost my overall routine, and give me a little more drive.


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## CDG (Aug 16, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> I left out the ruck last weekend and just focused on legs in the gym. The next morning I was walking like a baby Giraffe! This is exactly what I needed because rucking wasn't making me sore. This little stunt put me back this week though, because yesterday my legs were still fucked and I couldn't run. This coming weekend I'm looking at doing a dead lift session in the morning before I ruck in the evening. I'm hoping it will boost my overall routine, and give me a little more drive.



Be careful to not fall into the trap of thinking you have to be sore for days in order for it to have been an effective workout. If you train hard 2 days a week and can barely move the other 5, then you do not have an effective training program.


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## HolyBear (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah I'm not always this sore.  Lately I've completely ditched my normal leg routine because of all the rucking and running I've been doing.  I think I'm as sore as I am because I caught my legs by surprise.  I'm actually glad to see that I'm not the only one who notices people get addicted to the soreness of the gym - I'm obviously guilty of it.  As for me, I usually only see physical/visual gains after I get sore though.


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## CDG (Aug 16, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> Yeah I'm not always this sore. Lately I've completely ditched my normal leg routine because of all the rucking and running I've been doing. I think I'm as sore as I am because I caught my legs by surprise. I'm actually glad to see that I'm not the only one who notices people get addicted to the soreness of the gym - I'm obviously guilty of it. As for me, I usually only see physical/visual gains after I get sore though.



It is very easy to get caught up in it because it feels like instant feedback.  Your physical gains may not be as great as you think however, as psychologically you tend to think you made greater gains because you were sore. The thing I think many people lose sight of is the fact that working out intensely destroys your muscles. Recovering afterwards makes you stronger, faster, more powerful, etc. If your body never really has a chance to recover, then at some point you will start to experience not just injury, but diminishing returns.  In other words, you will be training hard but getting weaker and slower.  I have to constantly remind myself that while my training in preparation for SFAS needs to be intense, I should not try and recreate Selection on a weekly basis. From my very limited perspective, ( and if I am wrong, then please let me know) Selection is just that, Selection.  It is not a sustainable training program with a volume designed to be accomplished week after week.


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## HolyBear (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm going to continue to smoke myself when I'm not resting, because from what I've read and been told, A&S is the beginning.  We should all be ready for the worst:-|.  Personally, I'd rather be sore as fuck now than be way sore during Selection.


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## steadythought (Aug 21, 2011)

greetings people, I am new to this thread but not so much the site.  I was 7051 crash fire rescue, and I got out after I was turned down reenlistment in my same job, cfr. (downsizing yadayada !semper fi! obama! forget the fact that I was looking at meritorious sgt, I think one of the biggest downfalls of the military is letting, rather paying some people 5 figures to stay green regardless of the fact that they suck as being people, leaders, and/or skillfull at their job) anyways I am currently in the I.R.R. , and having been shat on by the civilian side, federal side, and more contracting agencies than I can count, I am considering going back green. special forces appeals to me more so than anything else because you are dealing with people that wantt to be there, and hopefully


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## steadythought (Aug 21, 2011)

wtf, continued .. hopefully not a bunch of whiny babies from the staff nco's on down.  anyways, I am 6'3, about 220lbs, 3 miles in about 20 minutes, etc, but I did a ruck hump the other day, just 3 miles and murdered my feet. I am guessing it is because I  am 220lbs rather than the deviled lean sick bastard I use to be at around 180. I was wondering if anyone could flood my head with some knowledge on how to keep/maintain my feet in a rather healthier undamaged uncut manner via before during and after hikes and also if anyone knows of some ways to destress the knees after some strenous hiking. your guys help and input would be appreciated, thanks for your time.


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## SkrewzLoose (Aug 21, 2011)

Step 1: http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/pages/info/
Step 2: Use the search feature
Step 3: Use proper grammar, to include punctuation and capitalization
Step 4: Use the search feature
Step 5: All the guys with their names in green and/or red on this site like to see attention to detail and the ability to think for one's self...which includes, but is not limited to, providing a proper introduction and using the search function frequently to answer your own questions/not asking questions that can be answered by using the aforementioned search function (i.e. how do i maintain my feet?) or "Read More, Post Less."


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## Tropicana98 (Aug 21, 2011)

Step 6: Try this forum as well http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/forums/sof-mentor-program.65/



steadythought said:


> special forces appeals to me more so than anything else because you are dealing with people that wantt to be there, and hopefully



Did you mean SF or MARSOC since you posted in a MARSOC thread there, attention to detail...just trying to help out before the powers from above smell blood.


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## steadythought (Aug 21, 2011)

id you mean SF or MARSOC since you posted in a MARSOC thread there, attention to detail...just trying to help out before the powers from above smell blood.[/quote]


Tropicana98 said:


> Step 6: Try this forum as well http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/forums/sof-mentor-program.65/
> 
> Did you mean SF or MARSOC since you posted in a MARSOC thread there, attention to detail...just trying to help out before the powers from above smell blood.


 We

It was my generalized understanding that they are one in the same, correct me if I am wrong, please.  Also, I am in the process of putting in a package for MARSOC, via lazy prior service recruiters. Also I need to finish my intro, be back in a bit, your guy's input is appreciated / thanks for the heads up,'is friday'


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## Tropicana98 (Aug 21, 2011)

Well..SF is the United States Army Special Forces and MARSOC is the United States Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command as far as differentiating between the two beyond that, that is going outside my lane and the gentlemen with green labels can/should/will be the only ones to go beyond that as its their profession not mine. In the mean time read the threads on both US Army and USMC SOF components that should highlight the similarities and differences between the two units until someone more knowledgeable comes around.


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## steadythought (Aug 21, 2011)

Ooo. I thought they were just different nomenclatures for the the same thing, I stand corrected. Gotta get back up to speed with all those high speed acronyms! Also, thanks for making me feel like a boot, screwzloose. Also, is the MARSOC A&S .... do they hump out with those old school ALICE packs, or those new school MOLLE packs with the ridiculous amount of straps, because I've just been humping with a Standard issue bootcamp sea-bag... but if I find that they are humping with ALICE packs, I'm going to change my regimen accordingly... I've heard so many different things from grunts and A&S washouts, so if I could get popped with some knowledge from someone at Pendleton, or from someone that has taken the course recently, of someone that just knows whatsup, I'd appreciate it. Domo


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## Teufel (Aug 21, 2011)

Steadythought, I would read up on MARSOC and the other special operations communities if I were you.  This is a professional forum for veterans and active duty members of the special operations community.  We welcome people from all walks of life but this is not a SOF fan club.  We value maturity, discipline and above all else professionalism.  We insist that our members utilize proper grammar, punctuation and most importantly, think about what they are posting before they post it.  This is not an air-soft forum.  The majority of the frequent contributers here have extensive SOF and combat experience.  Not only have they earned entry into the community you wish to join, they have excelled there.  I would recommend that you take take the lessons you learn here on board and drive on.


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## steadythought (Aug 21, 2011)

Can I not post here cause I am not active duty? Oh and my bad brother, but I am not a MARSOC Airsoft fanboy fucking hippie. Just cause I was a POG in the Marines doesn't make me any less hardcore than all you combat survived grunts. LOL no disrespect, but I have been shot at, in and out of the Marines, shot at as a firefighter, and if that doesn't make me a veteran and if that means I don't belong here, I will gladly step. I come here only seeking knowledge. If I am not welcome here, I will gladly get the fuck out. Am I simply in the wrong place or what? Is this not a thread for people attending MARSOC in the near future?   ////some brotherhood, brother//// My bad for asking questions here, I thought this was the right place. I am currently pushing through the 10 week fitness prep//// I would ask my former mentor/grunt/turned crash fire rescue,   but it hard to do cause he is not here anymore//// RIP Victor Cervantes //// and if I am in the wrong place(again I am only seeking knowledge) I will gladly leave all of you alone. SEMPER FI


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## AWP (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't know how many times we have to say this, but I'll type it again in the hopes that it will wash away the silica-based deposits in my birth canal this morning. In no particular order of importance:

- SkrewzLoose and Teufel hit it on the head
- Let the staff be staff. If you want to run the site, Mod elections are coming up soon. If you see a bad post, use the Report feature (left middle of the post) and we'll take care of it. If you are goinig to step in, then look at it like this: Marines police Marines, Soldiers police Soldiers, Wannabes police nobody, Airmen police Airmen, etc.
- *THIS NOT THE PLACE TO G2 COURSES*. If you don't understand this or the "Why" behind it, feel free to PM myself or anyone with a Green Tag. There's a difference between helping you succeed and propping you up.

Now, before anyone gets all butthurt, take a deep breath, I'll sprinkle some holy water bottled in Afghanistan on you, and go forth and sin no more.

Carry on.


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## AWP (Aug 22, 2011)

Well....so much for counseling.

Semper Good bye.


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## Teufel (Aug 22, 2011)

steadythought said:


> Can I not post here cause I am not active duty? Oh and my bad brother, but I am not a MARSOC Airsoft fanboy fucking hippie. Just cause I was a POG in the Marines doesn't make me any less hardcore than all you combat survived grunts. LOL no disrespect, but I have been shot at, in and out of the Marines, shot at as a firefighter, and if that doesn't make me a veteran and if that means I don't belong here, I will gladly step. I come here only seeking knowledge. If I am not welcome here, I will gladly get the fuck out. Am I simply in the wrong place or what? Is this not a thread for people attending MARSOC in the near future? ////some brotherhood, brother//// My bad for asking questions here, I thought this was the right place. I am currently pushing through the 10 week fitness prep//// I would ask my former mentor/grunt/turned crash fire rescue, but it hard to do cause he is not here anymore//// RIP Victor Cervantes //// and if I am in the wrong place(again I am only seeking knowledge) I will gladly leave all of you alone. SEMPER FI



Obviously everything I just said went way over your head.  Congratulations for being shot at, I am sure that it was a harrowing experience.  If you want mentorship, you have to abide by our rules.  We don't care about your MOS, we care about your professionalism and maturity.  Right now you are 0 for 2 in both categories.


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## is friday (Aug 22, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> I'll sprinkle some holy water bottled in Afghanistan on you, and go forth and sin no more.
> 
> Carry on.


What's the name of the stuff they got out there nowadays? In the middle of my deployment they had us throw away pallets of the shit we had currently because it supposedly was poisoned. Oasis? Derkamush? Something like that.


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## AWP (Aug 22, 2011)

is friday said:


> What's the name of the stuff they got out there nowadays? In the middle of my deployment they had us throw away pallets of the shit we had currently because it supposedly was poisoned. Oasis? Derkamush? Something like that.



Take your pick. Oasis, Aria, Jeema, Nestle, Crystal...I don't think I've seen Oasis and Jeema for quite some time now. There's also 3 or 4 brands I've forgotten.

We've had one or two incidents where the water wasn't clean/ e. coli in it, and I've more than one pallet taste like liquid plastic.


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## Marauder06 (Aug 22, 2011)

steadythought said:


> Can I not post here cause I am not active duty? Oh and my bad brother, but I am not a MARSOC Airsoft fanboy fucking hippie. Just cause I was a POG in the Marines doesn't make me any less hardcore than all you combat survived grunts. LOL no disrespect, but I have been shot at, in and out of the Marines, shot at as a firefighter, and if that doesn't make me a veteran and if that means I don't belong here, I will gladly step. I come here only seeking knowledge. If I am not welcome here, I will gladly get the fuck out. Am I simply in the wrong place or what? Is this not a thread for people attending MARSOC in the near future? ////some brotherhood, brother//// My bad for asking questions here, I thought this was the right place. I am currently pushing through the 10 week fitness prep//// I would ask my former mentor/grunt/turned crash fire rescue, but it hard to do cause he is not here anymore//// RIP Victor Cervantes //// and if I am in the wrong place(again I am only seeking knowledge) I will gladly leave all of you alone. SEMPER FI



Seriously?  

Banned.


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## fougasse (Aug 22, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Take your pick. Oasis, Aria, Jeema, Nestle, Crystal...I don't think I've seen Oasis and Jeema for quite some time now. There's also 3 or 4 brands I've forgotten.
> 
> We've had one or two incidents where the water wasn't clean/ e. coli in it, and I've more than one pallet taste like liquid plastic.



Hayat is one of them


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## 03cpl (Aug 24, 2011)

So I got an email today from some one higher in the chain than me. They wanted to know if I was going to drive or fly to A&S... As a student are you even allowed to have a POV at the course? I would understand if you were local but all the way from UT to NC...


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## L0gan4 (Aug 25, 2011)

03cpl said:


> So I got an email today from some one higher in the chain than me. They wanted to know if I was going to drive or fly to A&S... As a student are you even allowed to have a POV at the course? I would understand if you were local but all the way from UT to NC...



I drove my POV when I attended the course, we might of had a few late night food runs.


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## 03cpl (Aug 25, 2011)

L0gan4 said:


> I drove my POV when I attended the course, we might of had a few late night food runs.



So POVs are allowed. Sweet! It still seems crazy to me that the Corps would let you drive that far. I don't think my junker could make it from here to there and live to tell the tale so I'm opting to fly. I would be nice to have the possibility of eating something other than chow hall food though... Wish I had a newer car lol


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## L0gan4 (Aug 25, 2011)

Not everybody has the option to drive, they have a formula to figure out the most cost effective way. The food I had at Selection was actually really good.


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## is friday (Aug 25, 2011)

Well since I ended up giving a friend a ride home today and I don't have the time to drive back onto base for my ruckrun... I'm going to be running around the neighborhood with my pack on. I'm gonna feel really cool.

Saturday's my first 12 miler during this workup. I'm shooting for under 2:15. For today I want my 5 miler to be under 45 mikes.

edit:
Came in at 47:46 for my 5 miler today. Great time considering that I added hills to my route, which previously had been unaccounted for. I'd like to stay on target for a 2 hour 12 miler, but I might not be able to achieve that until the end of the prep course.


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## mac21 (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm going to see if I can squeeze in the the 12 mile hump before this hurricane hits us in Maryland. Safety is first here, so I'm just doing ~1.5 mile laps around base here so I can get back to the barracks if it gets too nasty out there.


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## 03cpl (Sep 3, 2011)

So this week I found out my travel dates are almost a week before the report date I've been given. Is this the case with anyone else? Not that I mind an extra week to familiarize myself with the area, it just seems a little odd to be there a week early.


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## is friday (Sep 10, 2011)

I wish everyone well that is attending. You'll learn a lot about yourself.


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## devilbones (Sep 11, 2011)

is friday said:


> I wish everyone well that is attending. You'll learn a lot about yourself.


Good luck to you too.  Please make sure to let us know how it works out for you.


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## CDG (Sep 11, 2011)

I second devilbones' post.  Looking forward to hearing about all of you succeeding in A&S.


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## FIJI750 (Sep 20, 2011)

All the best boys. Looking foward to hearing from you at the end of Oct.


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## DA SWO (Sep 20, 2011)

Good luck.
Come back when you are finished.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2011)

is friday said:


> Well since I ended up giving a friend a ride home today and I don't have the time to drive back onto base for my ruckrun... I'm going to be running around the neighborhood with my pack on. I'm gonna feel really cool.
> 
> Saturday's my first 12 miler during this workup. I'm shooting for under 2:15. For today I want my 5 miler to be under 45 mikes.
> 
> ...



What kind of load and equipment on that 12-miler?  sub-2:15 is faster than 11.5-minute miles, that's moving pretty good.


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## goon175 (Sep 21, 2011)

My guy that just went through RASP did his for record 12 miler in 2:11, and the ruck was 50lbs plus water, and had on full uniform and rack. He is extremely fit endurance wise, and I know he was in the top of his class.


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## AKkeith (Sep 22, 2011)

I just had general questions about pre-A&S. How much outside contact do you have? Im married so just thinking about her and how to take care of all my affairs. And Ive heard its more of a build you up for A&S vibe not as much a break you down atmosphere. But this is a total shot in the dark.


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## F.CASTLE (Sep 22, 2011)

Did a search to look for this, but I haven't been able to find out what strokes are specifically okay to utilizes at A&S. I would assume breast/side/CSS, however since it isn't specified, I figured I'd ask and get a solid answer.

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/marsoc-a-s-september-october-2011.10592/

^Checked out this thread, but it seemed to speak about BRC mostly, PRE Hitman being a CSO.

Any info is much appreciated.


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## whisper88 (Sep 23, 2011)

AKkeith said:


> I just had general questions about pre-A&S. How much outside contact do you have? Im married so just thinking about her and how to take care of all my affairs. And Ive heard its more of a build you up for A&S vibe not as much a break you down atmosphere. But this is a total shot in the dark.



IMO the best advice would be to make sure all your affairs are in order and your wife exspects to not hear from you before you leave. They didnt have ASPOC when I went through but I can say you will not have the chance to contact anyone during the selection phase. The ASPOC phase is supposed to ''better prepare you for the challenges you will face in selection". The whole ordeal is only 6ish weeks if you're worried whether your wife can take care of business or not for just 6 weeks you might want to reconsider that career route. 2 cents


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## AKkeith (Sep 23, 2011)

Sounds good thanks for your insight.


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## mac21 (Oct 14, 2011)

Here's my update:

I got dropped at the end of ASPOC for not meeting the standards for the PFT. It was nobody's fault but my own. I did well on the swim and hikes and was told I'm more than welcome to come back, which I plan on doing. I'll answer any questions you may have.


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## F.CASTLE (Oct 14, 2011)

mac21 said:


> Here's my update:
> 
> I got dropped at the end of ASPOC for not meeting the standards for the PFT. It was nobody's fault but my own. I did well on the swim and hikes and was told I'm more than welcome to come back, which I plan on doing. I'll answer any questions you may have.



Sorry to hear... Assuming you failed the entry PFT? They're require a 1st class, correct?


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## SkrewzLoose (Oct 14, 2011)

mac21 said:


> Here's my update:
> 
> I got dropped at the end of ASPOC for not meeting the standards for the PFT. It was nobody's fault but my own. I did well on the swim and hikes and was told I'm more than welcome to come back, which I plan on doing. I'll answer any questions you may have.




If you don't mind me asking, what are the standards and what were your times/numbers?
If you'd like to shoot me a PM with your reply, please do so.


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## mac21 (Oct 14, 2011)

F.CASTLE said:


> Sorry to hear... Assuming you failed the entry PFT? They're require a 1st class, correct?



I'm not going to give exact numbers, but they required a PFT a few points higher than 1st Class to move on past ASPOC. But any Marine should be able to attain it.


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## F.CASTLE (Oct 14, 2011)

Well I commend for for going and coming on here to inform everyone.

I'm surprised though, I had assumed anyone who was attending would be at a high first class.  No doubt you'll be well prepared on the next go round! Good luck mate!


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## HolyBear (Oct 27, 2011)

All I can say is after completing ASPOC/A&S, I'm really glad that I pushed myself with the short card prior to ASPOC.  I was Selected after A&S, which was hands down the greatest news I've ever been given in my entire life.  I'm slated for the Jan ITC class, which doesn't give me much time to prepare for, but I'm still in good shape BECAUSE of all of the work I did prior to attending ASPOC, so I'm pumped.  Dig deep during your work up for ASPOC/A&S and you wont have too much to worry about.

 Thanks for everyone's support prior to me attending ASPOC/A&S, it really helped.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 27, 2011)

HolyBear said:


> All I can say is after completing ASPOC/A&S, I'm really glad that I pushed myself with the short card prior to ASPOC. I was Selected after A&S, which was hands down the greatest news I've ever been given in my entire life. I'm slated for the Jan ITC class, which doesn't give me much time to prepare for, but I'm still in good shape BECAUSE of all of the work I did prior to attending ASPOC, so I'm pumped. Dig deep during your work up for ASPOC/A&S and you wont have too much to worry about.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's support prior to me attending ASPOC/A&S, it really helped.



Fucking A man congrats.


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## Hillclimb (Oct 27, 2011)

congratulations man


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## SkrewzLoose (Oct 27, 2011)

That's awesome news.  Well done!!
ITC looks like a beast.  I wish you the best of luck.


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## F.CASTLE (Oct 27, 2011)

Congrats Mate!


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## AKkeith (Oct 27, 2011)

Congradualtions


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## Hitman2/3 (Oct 28, 2011)

Congrats, keep pushing.


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## HolyBear (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks for the props guys!


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## devilbones (Nov 2, 2011)

Congrats HolyBear.  What is your current MOS?


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## Hutch (Nov 3, 2011)

Congrats HolyBear. I'm hoping to feel that feeling of acceptance next Spring.


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## 03cpl (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm finally getting back into a decent routine and I thought I would let everyone know how things went.-
I attended A&S and was selected. I'm happy about this, but not happy with my performance while I was there. In hindsight, I should have prepared differently. I was not a star performer in any area and I firmly believe, and was told, that I was selected because of my potential for improvement. I have a long wait until I go back for ITC so I'm using this time to train smarter than I was. If anyone preparing to go to A&S wants the specifics on what I think I could have done better to prepare just ask, but keep in mind the non-disclosure agreement.

all in all, I'm excited to meet the people around here in person and learn the things you can teach me! The Marines I met at A&S were stellar, and the cadre had a wealth of experience that I wish I could have heard more about.


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## egm (Dec 4, 2011)

Congrats, and good luck with your career.


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## AKkeith (Dec 7, 2011)

So I'm training and I'm on the third week of the 10 week prep guide. I just complete the 5 mile hike with the 45lbs ruck in just about 49 min. My Ssgt immediately comes up and attempted to chew my ass for not having my boots bloused. After he leaves another Ssgt comes up and congratulates me and talks to me for a bit about Marsoc. My Ssgt just can't help but hate on anything I do. He can't keep me down though cause it just motivates me that I can't and wouldn't fail A&S. 
Just had to vent that.


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## SkrewzLoose (Dec 7, 2011)

Greatest two words before any evolution..."un-blouse boots".


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## AKkeith (Dec 8, 2011)

Well this is great. Just found out my Ssgt is giving me a negative counseling for the un bloused boots and subsequently non rec-ing me for it. I'm rebuttaling to the Sgtmaj but this Ssgt just has it out for me. It never stops.


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## Chopstick (Dec 8, 2011)

Im sorry to hear, AKkeith. :-/


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## 03cpl (Dec 8, 2011)

On the bright side that will look pretty hilarious in your SRB a little down the road. No reasonable person should care about such trivial things...


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## AKkeith (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks. The lack of support of my command sucks but just motivates me more.


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## 0699 (Dec 9, 2011)

Why were your boots unbloused? Did the MCO order change? Does having your boots unbloused make you hump faster? Did a lot of humps BITD; I found unbuttoning my blouse helpful in getting rid of excess heat (although wearing body armor pretty much ended that...), but I can't picture how unblousing the boots helps.

I use to tell my Marines that I really don't care what you wear in our compound (balaclavas, buffalo jackets, PT gear, etc) but when you go out of the compound you better be f'ing squared away so you don't embarass yourself, me, or our unit.


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## AKkeith (Dec 9, 2011)

It's resistance pulling down on your knees and thighs. After 12 miles of jogging you can really tell the difference. I hear it helps with heat dispersion but I haven't humped with them bloused to know.


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## 0699 (Dec 9, 2011)

AKkeith said:


> It's resistance pulling down on your knees and thighs. After 12 miles of jogging you can really tell the difference. I hear it helps with heat dispersion but I haven't humped with them bloused to know.


 
I can't buy that. I've run plenty of races in boots & utes and done my share of 15-25 mile humps. Never felt the need to unblouse my boots unless I was swim training in utilities.  Sounds like an excuse to not blouse your boots and "be cool"; no different from the half roll on the sleeves. I've seen many Marines do the same thing.

Yeah, I know I'm a dick. I'll go ahead and bow out so you don't get mad. I don't want to blow your "I'm to HS to follow the MCO" mindset.


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## egm (Dec 9, 2011)

Look dude, posting about this is probably not the best idea if you're trying to get anywhere with your military career.  It may rear its ugly head, and prevent you from from doing some of the more interesting jobs the military has to offer.


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## 03cpl (Dec 9, 2011)

Rolling sleeves up a little and unblousing your boots just helps disperse heat. I also unbutton my fly and undo most of the buttons on my blouse when I ruck. Most of the Marine Corps doesn't run almost the whole hump either.

This is from MCO 6200.1E-

h. Whenever feasible, wear loose clothing. Loose
clothing allows free air circulation to promote cooling
effect on the body. Avoid wearing tight fitted clothing.
Use sun-blocking lotions with appropriate sun protection
factor of 30 or more.

every hump I've done exceeds the strenuous work category listed in the enclosure. Minimum weight at ASPOC for a ruck is 45lbs plus water and chow, Minimum pace is 4 MPH. That's above the 40lbs load at 3.5 MPH on a hard surface listed. And those are bare minumums... I know a couple of guys and almost all the instructors ran the entire 10 mile ruck at ASPOC. One particular person I remember finished at a pace of under 9min per mile...


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## AKkeith (Dec 9, 2011)

0699 said:


> Sounds like an excuse to not blouse your boots and "be cool"; no different from the half roll on the sleeves. I've seen many Marines do the same thing.
> 
> Yeah, I know I'm a dick. I'll go ahead and bow out so you don't get mad. I don't want to blow your "I'm to HS to follow the MCO" mindset.


Haha I'll go with what multiple guys with a lot of experience and guys in SF have told me before. Next time you ruck run 10+ miles try to open all the "vents" you can and see how much cooler (not high school fashion cool but tempature cool) you stay.

I completely understand blousing boots and been all pretty in the rear around battalion. I follow the MCOs to the t but when the rest of the platoon is cut to go chill in their rooms and go to the chow hall and get fat, it seems ridiculous to see me putting out 100% on an activity bettering myself that no one else would think about doing and come after me.


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## Rando134 (Dec 9, 2011)

AKkeith,

   I am not the fashion police, and completely understand where you are coming from. There is nothing more dysfunctional than someone wanting more and working hard to prep for what we desire in this gunclub. It is fustraiting in a sense when your higher ups haven't PT'ed in quite some time, and they mess with you after your solid 49 minutes. BUT, what you are failing to realize is that you need some situational awareness to your surroundings. This could have easily been avoided all together. Just because we choose for better doesn't put us above the rules you have to abide by.


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## AKkeith (Dec 9, 2011)

I understand that. Im not trying to act better or above the rules. Just trying to complete an event and train the hardest I can. Obviously from now on Im going to have to wear them or go out on the trails around my house to avoid this.


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## F.CASTLE (Dec 9, 2011)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Greatest two words before any evolution..."un-blouse boots".


 
Exactly, EVENT. Unless otherwise advised, you shouldn't be running around with unbloused boots, unbuttoned blouses etc. There are too many belt fed retards in the Marine Corps who live and breathe MarAdmin bullshit that are out there  looking to "Devil Dog" a junior Marine just because they can. They fail to realize the level of fitness you're trying to attain.

That being said, You know how we operate in the Marine Corps AKkeith. If you know this SSgt has a hard on for you, why are you sky lining yourself by doing shit you know is gonna give him ammo. Its December anyways, its not 95 and 100% Humidity in Camp Lejeune. You'll live without unblousing your boots, and you'll stay out of SSgt Belt Fed's sight. Good luck mate, stay focused and get selected so you don't have to deal with any more asshattery.


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## AKkeith (Dec 9, 2011)

Oh yeah I'm definitely trying to stay a little lower now haha. He just took over the platoon and our last Platoon Sergeant was a fellow 03 and was more focused on what was important to mission accomplishment. Now we have a brig guy so were getting a lot tighter oe the admin side of things


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## unguided (Dec 14, 2011)

AKkeith, Are you heading to the January course?


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## AKkeith (Dec 14, 2011)

No I will be attending the April/May course.


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## FIJI750 (Dec 15, 2011)

What's the status on 'it's friday'?


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## is friday (Dec 21, 2011)

FIJI750 said:


> What's the status on 'it's friday'?


I was offered an opportunity elsewhere in the Marine Corps and decided to take it. I just graduated ITB and am about to hit the Recon Prep here next month/February. BRC class day in April. :)


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## FIJI750 (Dec 21, 2011)

Very nice! Congrats hoss. It was a very hard choice for me to try RECON or MARSOC, spent some long hours over it. All the best to you.


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## Salt USMC (Dec 26, 2011)

is friday said:


> I was offered an opportunity elsewhere in the Marine Corps and decided to take it. I just graduated ITB and am about to hit the Recon Prep here next month/February. BRC class day in April.


Congrats man.  What was it like being the old guy?


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## is friday (Dec 26, 2011)

It was annoying because I had to constantly correct them.


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## Teufel (Dec 27, 2011)

Are we still talking about this?  Just low roll your boots.  Seriously.  I have ruck marched and done ruck runs with bloused and unbloused boots.  Deal with it.  If someone is going to life you out then blouse your damn boots.  You will survive.


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## AKkeith (Dec 27, 2011)

We weren't. But thanks for the advice.


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## x SF med (Dec 28, 2011)

AKkeith said:


> We weren't. But thanks for the advice.


 
Your situational awareness and military ettiquette leave a hell of a lot to be desired.
Are you always a completely self centered and arrogant turd?
From the way you just spoke to someone you know is a decorated Marine Combat Officer, I do believe you would piss on Chesty Puller's grave.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 28, 2011)

AKkeith said:


> We weren't. But thanks for the advice.


 
Not going to beat you up, but I would appreciate it if you would use a little more respect when discussing an issue or seeking advice from some of the senior and well respected members of this board. Both 0699 and Tuefel have been long members here, been and done the things you hope to someday achieve, and deserve the respect they are due.

I think the counseling for the uniform correction is bullshit, however, he is your PSG and as so, you need to meet his standard. You are not in MARSOC yet, you are in that SSGT platoon. You need to show that SSGT the respect that his rank deserves. No if’s, and’s or but’s. Do what the USMC requires you to do, serve to the best of your ability, follow the orders of the officers and NCO appointed over you and continue to represent your branch of the armed forces honorably out of the respect of those who served before you and for those who will follow you. You will understand this when you have a little more rank on your collar and a HSLD young Marine in your platoon someday.

Get yourself straight, stay on target and good luck with A&S!


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## AKkeith (Dec 28, 2011)

There was no disrespect intended. The post had moved to a different topic but I thanked him for his advice of situational awareness.


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## AWP (Dec 28, 2011)

AKkeith said:


> There was no disrespect intended. The post had moved to a different topic but I thanked him for his advice of situational awareness.


 
Sometimes it is best to say nothing and I think your "We weren't..." post wasn't needed. What probably seemed like a polite thing to do at the time came across to me as a bit of an arrogant brush-off. The nuances of communicating on the Net are a little different from face-to-face or or verbal interaction.

I'm not going to beat you up or play Internet Tough Guy, but you need to understand that something posted here, regardless of your intent, can be read by a lurker and have profound implications upon your Marine Corps career. This goes for anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, on this board. 

Good luck.


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## Teufel (Dec 31, 2011)

Check it out. I used to be in a cool guy outfit similar to the one you want to join.  I'm not anymore; such is the curse of the Marine officer career path.  I know I will be back one day but I will be blousing my boots, cutting my hair and everything else until my MCC doesn't start with a V [indicator for Marine infantry battalions].  That's just the way it is.  I don't think you are in a Victor unit.  I think you would gain a different appreciation for this issue if you were.  Life is different in the grunt battalions (like where your SSgt came from) and that's just the way it is.  If you don't play the game and color by the numbers you may adversely affect your ability to go where you want to go.  That's what it really comes down to.  If you have been following these forums you have seen that I don't normally bash new guys or hopefuls.  Tone doesn't carry very well on the internet; this is something that can be applied to both posts.


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## Hitman2/3 (Dec 31, 2011)

Here's another way to look at it, for any SOF hopefuls. Situational awareness has already been touched on i.e. knowing what is going on around you/knowing your current environment. As SOF, and really as a soldier of any type, this is something you need to have all the time not just when you're deployed. You always have to have SA on your surroundings.

 When I leave our team room my appearance looks like a recruiting poster, it's not because I'm a motard but because my SA of my surroundings tells me that the wings and bubble on my chest draws attention both good and bad. I know that it would give some senior SNCO or Officer the biggest hard on to life me out for a shitty uniform haircut or shave. I do the same thing in the rear I do in the field, I avoid compromise. Don't think the exact same thing can't happen over here maybe not something that small, but if you get flagged as that guy who wants to push the limits of the standard in a bad way you will go away. It's as simple as that. 

Final thought, if you can't work with and manuver around someone in your chain of command how do expect to do it with a stubborn leader of a different culture, which is one of the core task of the unit you want to join? Judging from the reasoning in your post you either need re-evaluate your thought process, some more time to mature before you try to come over here, or you need to seek life else where.


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## AKkeith (Dec 31, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. I've definitely taken it to heart. I don't know why my Platoon Sgt and got off on a bad note but it seems weve resolved it. I've talked to him aside from everyone a couple times and we now have a mutual understanding of each other. I know what he expects of me and the Marines here and he better understands my drive and potential and my influence of the Marines here. He's put me in charge of a squad even over a couple Cpls and now things are definitely looking like they are going to head in a better direction then they were.


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