# Rucksacks



## AWP (Sep 23, 2007)

Discuss pro's and cons of Military rucksacks. I'm looking for one to be used mainly as a means of carrying gear from one FOB to another. I'm leaning towards the Malice 3 from TT. I can't fathom dropping the dollars for a new Kifaru since it would essentially be tactical luggage to me and not a method for carrying a lot of gear a long way like it once was.

Any experience with the Kelty packs? Anyone know where to look for used gear or good deals on new stuff instead of going straight to the manufacturer? Ebay has been a  bust lately, no one wants to get rid of a ruck I guess. LOL

I have the MOLLE and would like a bit more cargo capacity and utility. I'm guessing for the money and my intended usage the Malice 3 is my best choice.

Thoughts? Any dope on rucks would be good if for no other reason than to add a thread on the subject for future users.


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## Looon (Sep 23, 2007)

Im still partial to the Large Alice.


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## 104TN (Sep 23, 2007)

E, I had a Kifaru pack I unloaded a while back. They're expensive but the difference between that and the big green tick was like night and day.

Speaking of big green ticks, I just got the OK from my Doc to start weight training again. The first thing I did was load up mine with two bags of kitty litter and go for a "walk". Anyone have some kidney pads laying around?


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## Crusader74 (Sep 23, 2007)

We are in the process of recieving new Rucks..Lowe alpine saracen


Backpack has a camelbak pouch inside and the outside lid pocket has a zip opening on both sides so you can store long items lengthways. Zippered opening in base for sleeping system and the usual rocket pouches.
*
Saracen 120lts*

 Features :
APS 5 Adjustable back system
Large body with base compartment
Two compartment body
Zip off side pockets zip together to form a patrol pack
Draw cord closure compartment divider
Snow sleeve extension with draw cord closer
Extendable lid with external and internal lid pockets
Side pocket re-enforcing straps
Double Base
Quick release chest harness
Re-enforce hall loops front and back
Hydration pocket and covered tube slot
New 25mm modular webbing system
24" internal aluminium staves
Hook and loop web retainers
Specifications : 
Pack 120lts including side pockets
Weight 4.3 Kg
Main material 1000D PU Coated nylon in NATO woodland Camo
Ours will be in Irish DPM.


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## pardus (Sep 23, 2007)

Looks like a modified PLCE Bergen

Which is what I use and can Highly recommend, Large carrying capacity (125 liters) comfy, side pouches come off and with a supplied harness makes a day pack.


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## Paddlefoot (Sep 23, 2007)

With some of the newer rucks out there, I wouldn't know where to begin. I always thought the Alice pack worked OK, but I've seen some newer packs that look like they would be easier to haul around, and a little roomier to boot.


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## Crusader74 (Sep 23, 2007)

pardus762 said:


> Looks like a modified PLCE Bergen
> 
> Which is what I use and can Highly recommend, Large carrying capacity (125 liters) comfy, side pouches come off and with a supplied harness makes a day pack.



We have them now until we get the new ones..Were getting issued a day sac also.. lowe Alpine sabre.

the new ones are the mutts nutts according to the lads who have got them issued for deployments..

My present pack..until I get issued the new lowe alpine.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 23, 2007)

rick said:


> E, I had a Kifaru pack I unloaded a while back. They're expensive but the difference between that and the big green tick was like night and day.
> 
> Speaking of big green ticks, I just got the OK from my Doc to start weight training again. The first thing I did was load up mine with two bags of kitty litter and go for a "walk". Anyone have some kidney pads laying around?


 
I think I have a old style kidney PAD laying around


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## Polar Bear (Sep 23, 2007)

FF take a look http://www.gregorypacks.com/ Mine has lasted 14 years have beat the hell out of it


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## 104TN (Sep 23, 2007)

I might take a road trip and come pick it up. The time off would do me some good.


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## rangerpsych (Sep 23, 2007)

or since you're a milciv, just pelican out ;)


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## Polar Bear (Sep 23, 2007)

You need to come up the first weekend in Nov


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## 104TN (Sep 23, 2007)

Just let me know what's up. I know my folks are planning on renewing their vows sometime in the future but I'm sure it'll work out.


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## Olive Drab (Sep 23, 2007)

rick I upgraded my pack with the Eagle industries shoulder and kidney pad.  night and day difference.


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## Pete031 (Sep 23, 2007)

I own a Kifaru, and personally I think they are overrated. Lowe Alpine, Arcteryx, even the Snugpak Begen will do.


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## 0699 (Sep 23, 2007)

I just got done spending 10 + days travelling FOB-to-FOB and the large ALICE worked well for me.  If I was doing some intense patrolling with a heavy pack, I might pick something different (I've got some good ruck burns from ALICE packs), but for FOB hopping, the issue pack worked well.


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## 104TN (Sep 23, 2007)

Back in HS I hiked part of the Appalachian with an Arcteryx pack. I hated it. To each their own I guess.


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## Pete031 (Sep 24, 2007)

rick said:


> Back in HS I hiked part of the Appalachian with an Arcteryx pack. I hated it. To each their own I guess.



They have a whole military section now. All of us who had them overseas loved them.
http://www.arcteryx.com/leaf/


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## HeloMedic1171 (Sep 24, 2007)

did it work?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Sep 24, 2007)

I can take better pics on request, the flash was on for these and I think it messed them up.


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## surgicalcric (Mar 15, 2008)

*Speaking of rucks*

Well, having just spent 22 days under a Kifaru ZXR on combat patrols and recon missions in the jungles of a country south of where most of you are... I can tell you that I wouldnt take it back for a second go round if I had an ALICE pack.  

While the ruck is as comfortable to wear as one can hope for bearing 90 lbs of light weight gear it isnt as user friendly as I would have liked.  I found the small size of the top opening quite annoying when looking for something, however the bottom opening seemed to be about the right size.  The pack wore well over my rack but use of the waist/hip belt is mandatory if moving more than 50 meters and would be near impossible if utilizing a vest or other LBE which hangs low.  I tried using it sans belt but due to the tendency of the back to round when the cinch straps are used; the shape of the back padding; and the lumber pad it beat me to death (listing side to side) while trying to maneuver thru the thick foliage and vegetation found here.  

It also takes a considerable amount of time to get into and adjusted, which I found to be a problem when moving out from a halt (the Indig dont wait for you to get your shit on and adjusted before they start moving out, and they will leave you.)  The slide locks for the shoulder straps seem to work themselves loose during movement which required constant adjustments to the shoulder straps, lift offs, and sternum strap; this become more than annoying after a short amount of time. 

I also found the ruck too tall, for me atleast, to use in this environment due to the number of wait-a-minute vines and low hanging trees; my XTL caught on everything it seems.  The side slot pockets were useful for holding my hydration bladders until I bumped into a black palm and pierced one of them on the thorns then I started carrying the other inside the main compartment.

All that being said, the ability to go "slick" was a benefit.  The XTL was great for get to quickly items and again it was pretty comfortable.

And the worst part about the whole thing...  the inability, due to how low it extends past the lumbar pad, to do a rucksack flop and remain in a reclined position...

Crip


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## Pete031 (Mar 15, 2008)

I have the Kifaru Extended mission pack, I have the same type of complaints. Great ruck, but not exactly what the military needs.


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## 104TN (Mar 15, 2008)

Crip, was it a personal purchase or unit issue?

I tried the ZXR on but knew just from how it fit in the shop it was too tall and got a Navigator instead.


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## Polar Bear (Mar 15, 2008)

Great review

on a side note intresting time to be in Colombia ;)


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## irnbndr (Mar 15, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Looks like a modified PLCE Bergen
> 
> Which is what I use and can Highly recommend, Large carrying capacity (125 liters) comfy, side pouches come off and with a supplied harness makes a day pack.



Nice.  That issue?


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## surgicalcric (Mar 15, 2008)

rick said:


> Crip, was it a personal purchase or unit issue?
> 
> I tried the ZXR on but knew just from how it fit in the shop it was too tall and got a Navigator instead.



It was a personal purchase.

I hadnt had the chance to try one prior to purchase but was very pleased with my Marauder so I though what the hell.  I think I will be digging my MALICE out of the closet when I get home, or having an ALICE mod'd to suit my needs and getting another MR NICE frame for it.

It is a great pack for other applications, but the jungle, during combat ops, is not where it was built for...

YMMV,

Crip


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## irnbndr (Mar 15, 2008)

I too am a huge fan of the large alice.  I had mine upgraded at the sew shop in Ft. Bragg to match the tactical tailor ruck.  That thing is way overpriced!  You can get a used ruck at the surplus store and have it modified for under $100.00.  Add some decent shoulder straps and she' good to go.

I used a Kelty bag while deployed in the Philippines.  Good bag but not big enough for the type of travel you will be doing IMO.  We used them as bug out bags, enough room for all of the essential incase of an unplanned week or two spent in the jungles if you know what I mean.

Good thread.


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## surgicalcric (Mar 15, 2008)

Polar Bear said:


> ...on a side note interesting time to be in Colombia ;)



It was a very interesting time indeed.  If you think the news was fascinating you should have been on the ground watching...  

Crip


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## Polar Bear (Mar 15, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> It was a very interesting time indeed. If you think the news was fascinating you should have been on the ground watching...
> 
> Crip


 
Stay Safe
Have already heard some intresting stories 

If you want to get rid of your pack let me know


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## jordan (Mar 15, 2008)

I took my molle and threw that piece of trash in the closet and stuck with the alice large becasue it has never let me down in 7years. I wont do anymore modifications to it since I am down to ets in 9months.


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## pardus (Mar 15, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Nice.  That issue?



Brit Army issue.
NZ uses a modified ALICE.

When I was in we were issued large ALICE packs (before they were modified), the straps and frame killed me but for jungle environments the size and shape are really good, better than the PLCE bergen IMO as that is quite tall and wide, would like to try one of the new fancy ALICE packs.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 15, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> I too am a huge fan of the large alice.  ...



Ditto.  I tried using the new MOLLE ruck a couple of years back, it looks cool but wasn't as functional as I would have liked.  This PCS I didn't even take the one the unit issued.

Anything they issue that includes a video so you can put it together, is probably too complicated for you to issue to a guy like me.:2c:


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## 104TN (Mar 15, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Ditto.  I tried using the new MOLLE ruck a couple of years back, it looks cool but wasn't as functional as I would have liked.  This PCS I didn't even take the one the unit issued.
> 
> Anything they issue that includes a video so you can put it together, is probably too complicated for you to issue to a guy like me.:2c:



I tossed a MOLLE ruck into the back of an LMTV and pulled it out to find the frame cracked. Mothballed.


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## rangerpsych (Mar 15, 2008)

maybe I got lucky but I liked mine.... was issued at bat, cleared to alaska with it, used it consistently throughout everything I did...  Most of the time I could use my camelbak backpack and take care of everything I needed to out of that. 

but, with all the horror stories about them breaking etc, I don't fault people for not using them.  I beat the shit out of mine before I even thought about using it for anything when we got them issued... Mine didn't break on my testing, so I used it when I could.  I preferred the modified version that they made/issued for the gustav gunners, the sleeping bag pouch on the bottom was permanently attached with a lace-up and/or zippered seperator, so you could have a veritable cavern of storage if you wanted.

Being a civvie now, and hearing the issues with a kifaru in a jungle, and with how thick it can get in the woods up here, I might end up going another route now.


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## 104TN (Mar 15, 2008)

If you can get your hands on one first do it. Just like the differences in height between models there are also differences in width. 

Being as big a guy as you are I don't imagine your ruck would get hung up on anything you wouldn't if you got one sized right. :2c:


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 16, 2008)

I just find that my MOLLE ruck doesn't hold what I need it to.  I can't wait until the conventional army adopts multicam.  my MALICE ruck rocks my socks.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 16, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> I can tell you that I wouldnt take it back for a second go round if I had an ALICE pack.
> 
> Crip





surgicalcric said:


> I think I will be digging my MALICE out of the closet when I get home, or having an ALICE mod'd to suit my needs and getting another MR NICE frame for it.
> 
> YMMV,
> 
> Crip




after having read all of this again whilst sober.... I like my MALICE ruck better than my MOLLE ruck, but I just don't like the way it pulls me back the heavier it gets.  does the MR NICE frame fix that?  



surgicalcric said:


> It was a very interesting time indeed.  If you think the news was fascinating you should have been on the ground watching...
> 
> Crip



be safe, bro.  i know safe doesn't always factor in to tactics, but just come back in one piece, roughly the same size as when you left, k?


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## rangerpsych (Mar 16, 2008)

rick said:


> If you can get your hands on one first do it. Just like the differences in height between models there are also differences in width.
> 
> Being as big a guy as you are I don't imagine your ruck would get hung up on anything you wouldn't if you got one sized right. :2c:



Yeah, plus I have the advantage of not having to be tactical anymore so I can just bulldoze if necessary lol

it'd be nice to see one but that would require a flight to the lower 48.


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## EATIII (Mar 29, 2008)

Mr Nice frame? What is that?


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## pardus (Mar 29, 2008)

EATIII said:


> Mr Nice frame? What is that?



EatIII, What rucks do you and ocox have?


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## EATIII (Mar 29, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> EatIII, What rucks do you and ocox have?



Malice 2


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## EATIII (Mar 29, 2008)

Invisible J said:


> http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/nice_frames.php



Thank you.


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## RustyShackleford (Mar 29, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Ditto.  I tried using the new MOLLE ruck a couple of years back, it looks cool but wasn't as functional as I would have liked.  This PCS I didn't even take the one the unit issued.
> 
> Anything they issue that includes a video so you can put it together, is probably too complicated for you to issue to a guy like me.:2c:




I find it amazing that almost seven years after we were issued that POS that things haven't changed.  They test the molle ruck on Rangers and e rejected it.  The re-tested it on us and we rejected it.  So what did the big Army do?  They went ahead and issued it.  I think about one in four of us actually used it.  The rest of us continued to use the alice pack.


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## Centermass (Mar 29, 2008)

Like a lot of others here, I was always a fan of the LG ALICE and had mine modified as well (ie claymore pouch, star cluster pockets etc) and still have it. I bought one for turn in when I retired so I could keep it. 

IMHO, the ALICE pack wasn't the problem, it was always the fucking frame.

Einstein invented the ALICE. Some sadistic whack job created the frame.


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## pardus (Mar 29, 2008)

Centermass said:


> IMHO, the ALICE pack wasn't the problem, it was always the fucking frame.
> 
> Einstein invented the ALICE. Some sadistic whack job created the frame.



Couldn't agree more!!!!


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## irnbndr (Mar 29, 2008)

Centermass said:


> Like a lot of others here, I was always a fan of the LG ALICE and had mine modified as well (ie claymore pouch, star cluster pockets etc) and still have it. I bought one for turn in when I retired so I could keep it.
> 
> IMHO, the ALICE pack wasn't the problem, it was always the fucking frame.
> 
> Einstein invented the ALICE. Some sadistic whack job created the frame.



Haha!  What?  Holes in you lower back and raw armpits are'nt you idea of fun?

Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!!
          SGT. Barnes


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## pardus (Mar 30, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Haha!  What?  Holes in you lower back and raw armpits are'nt you idea of fun?
> 
> Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!!
> SGT. Barnes



Hahaha

I stupidly blistered myself so bad I got poisoned heels (yes both   ) they were swollen and hurt like fuck.
I ran into a retired SGM who asked what was wrong I told him and he said "rub them vigorously", I told him it hurt like hell, he replied "Pain dissipates pain boy!"

LOL, his nickname was 'The Warlord' :cool:


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## irnbndr (Mar 30, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Hahaha
> 
> I stupidly blistered myself so bad I got poisoned heels (yes both   ) they were swollen and hurt like fuck.
> I ran into a retired SGM who asked what was wrong I told him and he said "rub them vigorously", I told him it hurt like hell, he replied "Pain dissipates pain boy!"
> ...



Haha!  Pain disssipates pain... Poignant!


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 30, 2008)

RustyShackleford said:


> I think about one in four of us actually used it.  The rest of us continued to use the alice pack.



"were it so easy...."  

The Unit I belong to is run by MPs who insist on absolute adherence to one pattern.  therefore, if it ain't ACU, we can't wear it.  unless it's medical gear (leg rigs) it has to be in ACU... which means no ALICE rucks.  ghey.  fucking MPs.  the sad thing is, 90% of my MPs are good guys and gals...  it's just our command that's fucked up.  "enjoy the suck", right?


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## RustyShackleford (Mar 30, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> "were it so easy...."
> 
> The Unit I belong to is run by MPs who insist on absolute adherence to one pattern.  therefore, if it ain't ACU, we can't wear it.  unless it's medical gear (leg rigs) it has to be in ACU... which means no ALICE rucks.  ghey.  fucking MPs.  the sad thing is, 90% of my MPs are good guys and gals...  it's just our command that's fucked up.  "enjoy the suck", right?



The problem is that once you give joe and inch, he'll take a mile.


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## pardus (Mar 30, 2008)

RustyShackleford said:


> The problem is that once you give joe and inch, he'll take a mile.



Only in a shitbird outfit with shitbird leaders IMO.

Anal disipline covers a deeper problem, A well lead unit doesn't need it. :2c:


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## irnbndr (Mar 30, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Only in a shitbird outfit with shitbird leaders IMO.
> 
> Anal disipline covers a deeper problem, A well lead unit doesn't need it. :2c:



Word.

The mindset that you can't give Joe an inch is what is wrong with the army.


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## JustAnotherJ (Mar 30, 2008)

Invisible J said:


> http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/nice_frames.php



Mystery Ranch is a gift from god...no bullshit at all.  You only need one frame, and all the packs are interchangeable.  Mine came cut down, and jump ready, but has plenty of room for all my medical shit.


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## The91Bravo (Mar 30, 2008)

What is the easiest (i.e. cheapest) way to modify the Large ALICE to an improved frame for comfort??

Can the existing frame and straps be modified, or chuck em and get a new support system??

The pack rat still has a line on some large ALICEs and I may pick one up..


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 30, 2008)

get one.  I may want another as well.


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## Centermass (Mar 30, 2008)

The91Bravo said:


> What is the easiest (i.e. cheapest) way to modify the Large ALICE to an improved frame for comfort??
> 
> Can the existing frame and straps be modified, or chuck em and get a new support system??
> 
> The pack rat still has a line on some large ALICEs and I may pick one up..



As long as you have someone with a decent skills, an industrial type sewing machine and knowledge of different types of nylon and tacking, it shouldn't be any problem. 

Grommets, Fastex Buckles and nylon straps are pretty much mainstays in adapting rucks to frames of all shapes and sizes (exterior only) 

Interior frames are a whole nother story.


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## RustyShackleford (Mar 31, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> The mindset that you can't give Joe an inch is what is wrong with the army.



No, what is wrong with the Army is basic training/AIT.  I used to love getting new privates who couldn't D & C, let alone walk in a fucking wedge.  Now everyone thinks they should be able to wear what the fuck ever because they see someone, somewhere wearing it.  I work with a lot of clowns like that.

I also love the attitude that there aren't shitty soldiers, just shitty leaders.  Yeah...okay. 

In the case of the alice ruck/molle...if the shit is issued, you should be able to wear it.


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## pardus (Mar 31, 2008)

RustyShackleford said:


> I also love the attitude that there aren't shitty soldiers, just shitty leaders.  Yeah...okay. .



If leaders did/were allowed to do their jobs properly this would be true because the shitty soldiers would be hammered into place or kicked out.

In the current PC 'dont yell because its upsetting' Army mentallity of course there are shitty Soldiers, the system is breeding and encouraging it.

Sad state of affairs.


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## Polar Bear (Mar 31, 2008)

RustyShackleford said:


> In the case of the alice ruck/molle...if the shit is issued, you should be able to wear it.


 
Wrong LOL Boon and Pardus can voche for me. Rest on your hips my ass...how about mid back. Military gear sucks in general. It is made for 5'7" to 6'0" nothing more nothing less.


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## Crusader74 (Mar 31, 2008)

Well, I will soon be getting issued a Lowe Alpine (Saracen)Pack.....pictures will be posted. :)


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## x SF med (Mar 31, 2008)

Irish_Army01 said:


> Well, I will soon be getting issued a Lowe Alpine (Saracen)Pack.....pictures will be posted. :)




Had something similar issued at Group in the 80's - still had to jump an ALICE for a long time due to issues with ahrnessing the beast to jump - and us short guys still had a hell of a time jumping those long ass Lowes...


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## surgicalcric (Mar 31, 2008)

x SF med said:


> ...us short guys still had a hell of a time jumping those long ass Lowes...



I would be suprised if you didnt have trouble jumping a fanny pack as short as you are...    :)

Crip


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## harryhubbard68 (Mar 31, 2008)

rick said:


> Anyone have some kidney pads laying around?



I know JACK except the ALICE is/was good enough.  I retired with my gear.  Do you really want it rick?


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## Rabid Badger (Apr 1, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Only in a shitbird outfit with shitbird leaders IMO.
> 
> Anal disipline covers a deeper problem, A well lead unit doesn't need it. :2c:



Thus the quote 'Shooter's choice' takes on an all-encompassing meaning!

Gunz-rucks-equipment.....Shooter's choice

Like Centermass, I always had my own modified ruck, claymore pockets....added side pockets...broke a frame or two...bought new ones....

I modified my kidney pad with a 100 mph taped airplane pillow and the same for the frame crossbeam. Used the taped pillow, (held on by green bungies) as my waddaya think? pillow....and the bungies for the poncho hootch.....

Took about 60 seconds to set up...and say nite nite..

H2 had about the same thing.....

;);)


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## Crusader74 (Apr 1, 2008)

x SF med said:


> Had something similar issued at Group in the 80's - still had to jump an ALICE for a long time due to issues with ahrnessing the beast to jump - and us short guys still had a hell of a time jumping those long ass Lowes...



Their being made specifically for the Irish DF, in our Camo pattern. A few Units have been issued(deployed) so far and nothing  but good things to say..

The Back is adjustable and the padding is first class.. our issued one now was in two sizes only and if you didn't get issued one suited to your back.. your fucked..

Were also getting issued a day sac, lowe alpine sabre


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## pardus (Apr 1, 2008)

razor_baghdad said:


> taped airplane pillow and the same for the frame crossbeam. Used the taped pillow, (held on by green bungies) as my waddaya think? pillow....and the bungies for the poncho hootch...




Thats a bloody good Idea, I used a kidney pad on my cross beam but damn that pillow idea sure sounds comfy.


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## Centermass (Apr 1, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Haha!  What?  Holes in you lower back and raw armpits are'nt you idea of fun?
> 
> Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!!
> SGT. Barnes



Sounds more like the Purd instead of Barnes. LOL


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## Frisco (Apr 2, 2008)

I picked up a Bugout Bag on base today for like 40$,  officially called the "three day pass" http://www.campingsurvival.com/thdaypababl.html


I've got a really good first impression of it, held 3 days of gear nicely, seems comfortable and sturdy, lots of individual compartments to keep things organized and eazy to find.. even had a place to stick my camelbak blatter.. I'll have to wait till Sunday to give a better review, but I've got high hopes..


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## 104TN (Apr 2, 2008)

harryhubbard68 said:


> I know JACK except the ALICE is/was good enough.  I retired with my gear.  Do you really want it rick?



Yes. PM incoming.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Apr 3, 2008)

C/Maj. Francisco said:


> I picked up a Bugout Bag on base today for like 40$,  officially called the "three day pass" http://www.campingsurvival.com/thdaypababl.html
> 
> 
> I've got a really good first impression of it, held 3 days of gear nicely, seems comfortable and sturdy, lots of individual compartments to keep things organized and eazy to find.. even had a place to stick my camelbak blatter.. I'll have to wait till Sunday to give a better review, but I've got high hopes..



yup.  good bags, I have one in black and one in ACU.  I like them a lot.


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## Frisco (Apr 3, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> yup.  good bags, I have one in black and one in ACU.  I like them a lot.



Heck of a good replacment for the Hurley pack I bought at Pacsun I've been using..:doh:   maybe THIS one can carry all my school books without pussing out and ripping :uhh:


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## HeloMedic1171 (Apr 3, 2008)

you're gonna laugh....  that's why i bought my black one.  i had left my ACU one at home while I was downrange, and while taking A&P and Psych online, I got tired of dragging 25 Lbs of textbooks.  it should work.


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## Rabid Badger (Apr 5, 2008)

'Bug-out' bag was an oversized camelback with extra pockets and an 'old school' bra full of mags.. 

Snaplink on the handle and attached to anywhere in the vehicle or helo so you know where it is should 'something' happen.

I carried an 'extra' basic load of ammo.....12 M4's mags, 6 extra Glock mags, surefire, grenades, smoke..power bars, and of course water...Silva, strobe...etc...

I'd get on the helo in kit (w/bug-out bag) with KBR folks lookin at me like. 'What the..., who the...'??...as we're flyin over Bdad.....

If that B-hawk would've been shot down at any point...well,...picture the Mog all over again...I wasn't about to end up wearing an orange jumpsuit.

Crew chiefs, to their benefit , were very understanding about having another shooter on board.

:2c:


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## AWP (Apr 5, 2008)

I carried a Tactical Tailor 3-day pack, http://tacticaltailor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=40, with me with anything I would need should I survive a helo going down. Bad thing is I did my time in Afghanistan unarmed, so no extra mags for me. That doesn't mean you aren't of any value however. Pack it full of water, maps, signaling devices (I carried IR and conventional chem lights and a strobe) and the don't-leave-home-without-it Iridium phone with extra batteries and higher gain antenna, and you become less dead weight in the event of bad things happening. I snap-linked mine to my vest figuring in the event of a crash I wouldn't lose it.

I always felt it better to have and not need, than need and not have.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Apr 5, 2008)

razor_baghdad said:


> 'Bug-out' bag was an oversized camelback with extra pockets and an 'old school' bra full of mags..
> 
> Snaplink on the handle and attached to anywhere in the vehicle or helo so you know where it is should 'something' happen.
> 
> ...



always.  whenever I flew with my crews we were always happy to have the extra guns and bullets, and they were always happy to have me.  I never worried about carrying extra ammo, though.  I knew if the bird went down, the pilots wouldn't need the ammo, so I'd have 14 extra mags of 5.56 and 6 extra of 9mm.  



Freefalling said:


> I carried a Tactical Tailor 3-day pack, http://tacticaltailor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=40, with me with anything I would need should I survive a helo going down. Bad thing is I did my time in Afghanistan unarmed, so no extra mags for me. That doesn't mean you aren't of any value however. Pack it full of water, maps, signaling devices (I carried IR and conventional chem lights and a strobe) and the don't-leave-home-without-it Iridium phone with extra batteries and higher gain antenna, and you become less dead weight in the event of bad things happening. I snap-linked mine to my vest figuring in the event of a crash I wouldn't lose it.
> 
> I always felt it better to have and not need, than need and not have.



yup.  like condoms and guns.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 5, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> I always felt it better to have and not need, than need and not have.


 
My wife calls me the Last Boy Scout.

When I was in my Squad would always asked me why I carried so much stuff. "You will thank me one day"

I got thanked a lot


----------



## Rabid Badger (Apr 5, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> I always felt it better to have and not need, than need and not have.



And that was the quote to the KBR folks when they asked 'What's all that for'?.....fukn duh..... :doh::doh:


----------



## XiXo (Apr 13, 2008)

Polar Bear said:


> My wife calls me the Last Boy Scout.
> 
> When I was in my Squad would always asked me why I carried so much stuff. "You will thank me one day"
> 
> I got thanked a lot



I had the same thing happen.  "You're a dumbass to carry all that extra shit..."

"Umm, can we have (insert item here)..."


A side note on the MOLLE - anybody have any problems jumping it?  When we jumped ours (which we did only once), we had more injuries on that jump than the entire training cycle previous.

One of my mates broke his MOLLE frame by pulling it out of the box, putting it together, and throwing it up on top of his walllocker.


----------



## pardus (Apr 13, 2008)

razor_baghdad said:


> And that was the quote to the KBR folks when they asked 'What's all that for'?.....fukn duh..... :doh::doh:



We're talking about guns and shit, not your perverted sex toys


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Apr 13, 2008)

XiXo said:


> I had the same thing happen.  "You're a dumbass to carry all that extra shit..."
> 
> "Umm, can we have (insert item here)..."
> 
> ...



I read somewhere that the mole ruck was not designed by, or intended for use with, paratroopers.  this probably would explain the plethora of injuries......  personally, I like my MALICE ruck.


----------



## pardus (Apr 13, 2008)

Forgive my ignorant ass, why would a ruck make any difference to injuries while jumping?

It's slung below the jumper while landing....  :uhh:


----------



## XiXo (Apr 13, 2008)

The problem we found was the ruck with it's "ergonomic parabolic frame" turned into a little wing when lowered, and started making us oscillate like a sum'bitch.

The command in all of it's glory decided we HAD to take them to Afghanistan (typical big army - it's new, it MUST be better), but everyone left them when we went to Iraq a couple of months after getting home.


----------



## x SF med (Apr 13, 2008)

I still have and use my Alice - and i keep a bug out bag in my car, just had to steristrip a stone cutters finger together on Fri while I was out on a site inspection - The construction guys looked at me funny when the small aid kit, bottle of water and clean white terry towels were readily available from the management geeks trunk as soon as he pulled up...

Never underestimate the power of having a well stocked bug out bag - or a loaded trunk in the car.


----------



## HoosierAnnie (Apr 13, 2008)

x SF med said:


> Never underestimate the power of having a well stocked bug out bag - or a loaded trunk in the car.



You mean everyone doesn't??  ;)


----------



## AWP (Jun 3, 2008)

Anyone know anything about Kelty packs? Is this/ are they any good?

http://www.amronintl.com/tactical/products.cfm?id=6064

I can get this one cheaper than a complete MALICE3.


----------



## surgicalcric (Jun 3, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> Anyone know anything about Kelty packs?...



The one you referenced is a pretty large pack, standing about the same height as the Kifaru EMR.  I thought about purchasing one prior to my vacation in SA, but the waist belt was the deciding factor not to buy.  It has a HUGE plastic piece that sits over your lower abdomen that I didnt like.  I will try to find some pics to show you what I am talking about.

Other than that it seemed like a well made pack.  I would probably look at the Arctera packs if I were gonna spend 400.00 or a Kifaru...

Crip


----------



## Kurt V (Jun 3, 2008)

Medium ALICE best ruck ever.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 3, 2008)

I own 2 Kelty both have held up so far...Also own a Dana which was bought by Marmot. Good backs I have had mine over 12 years


----------



## Crusader74 (Jul 5, 2008)

*Lowe Alpine Saracen*

This is the New pack on Issue to the Irish Defence Forces.

The Guy in the Vid gives a good review of the Pack.


----------



## Pete031 (Jul 5, 2008)

Lowe Alpine rocks man.... Good packs


----------



## fiannoglach (Jul 6, 2008)

Used Kiwi issue ALICE clone last year in the jungle - Was the dogs bollox!
Normally use a Lowe Alpine Vector Commando or Samson, good bags.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jul 6, 2008)

fiannoglach said:


> Used Kiwi issue ALICE clone last year in the jungle - Was the dogs bollox!
> Normally use a Lowe Alpine Vector Commando or Samson, good bags.



Got issued the Saracen..1000 times better than the old pack.


----------



## pardus (Jul 6, 2008)

fiannoglach said:


> Used Kiwi issue ALICE clone last year in the jungle - Was the dogs bollox!



Interesting, the old one was a nightmare, he new one does look good.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jul 6, 2008)

Pictures of the Irish Lowe Saracen. Great Pack and loads of features..It has tons of compression straps and the Snow sleeve goes up to about a foot above the top of the pack.

PB, this pack would fit your huge size as its fully adjustable back system, as seen in the vid.


----------



## pardus (Jul 6, 2008)

It looks bloody comfortable!


----------



## Pete031 (Jul 6, 2008)

The only problems I see with most packs these days, and this  includes the Kifaru EMP that I have, is that there are too many straps and compartments. 

It's good to have different places to store things, and it makes it easier to have more readily accesible equipment availible out of the main compartment. But I find that it gets to a point, where it is too much.

Anyone else have this problem?

Thats why I like the Arcteryx echo, and packs like that:
http://leaf.arcteryx.com/Echo.asp#

The Lowe Alpine one you have Irish looks really good. Simple and big.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jul 6, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> It looks bloody comfortable!



It is..vast improvement on the last one.


----------



## Crusader74 (Jul 6, 2008)

Pete031 said:


> The only problems I see with most packs these days, and this  includes the Kifaru EMP that I have, is that there are too many straps and compartments.
> 
> It's good to have different places to store things, and it makes it easier to have more readily accesible equipment availible out of the main compartment. But I find that it gets to a point, where it is too much.
> 
> ...




Its is..it has one main compartment and a divider at the base for easier access to kit. The two side pouches can come off and make a day sac but as we were issued a sabre(lowe Alpine 35ltr) we 'll be using that as a patrol pack.

It has a floating lid which acts as compression for your kit..all round great pack.

The main is 100 ltr and the side pouches bring it up to 120 ltr.


----------



## Pete031 (Jul 6, 2008)

Sounds good.


----------



## pardus (Jul 6, 2008)

They're all just modified versions of the old Brit bergen that I've carried for years now, good basic design.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Pete031 said:


> The only problems I see with most packs these days, and this  includes the Kifaru EMP that I have, is that there are too many straps and compartments.
> 
> It's good to have different places to store things, and it makes it easier to have more readily accesible equipment availible out of the main compartment. But I find that it gets to a point, where it is too much.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?



Oh hell yeah, the new MOLLE ruck the issue us sucks! Joe puts all the attachment pouches on it and then put's his equipment spread out in all these areas making his ruck an unevenly distributed load. They are carrying the same amount of equipment, but it feels twice as heavy.

I just use the main compartment and throw all the attachments in a duffle bag.

I simply loved my large ALLICE pack the best!


----------



## Viper1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Pete031 said:


> The only problems I see with most packs these days, and this  includes the Kifaru EMP that I have, is that there are too many straps and compartments.
> 
> It's good to have different places to store things, and it makes it easier to have more readily accesible equipment availible out of the main compartment. But I find that it gets to a point, where it is too much.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem?





J.A.B. said:


> Oh hell yeah, the new MOLLE ruck the issue us sucks! Joe puts all the attachment pouches on it and then put's his equipment spread out in all these areas making his ruck an unevenly distributed load. They are carrying the same amount of equipment, but it feels twice as heavy.
> 
> I just use the main compartment and throw all the attachments in a duffle bag.
> 
> I simply loved my large ALLICE pack the best!




ALICE pack is the best for me as well. The MOLLE is just way too much all over the place, although I do like the zipper at the bottom where you can get to gear purposely placed there w/o having to dig through your pack.


----------



## Ajax (Jul 9, 2008)

I've carried my Kelty Redwing all over the world.  It's served me well over the past three years and, other than some well earned dirt and stains, has not fallen apart at all.  But will Big Army let you sling a civilian pack?  Also, I've never overtly carried anything tactical in it, though I know it can be done.

I like TT's stuff.  I use their gear for my business.


----------



## Pete S (Jul 9, 2008)

Ajax said:


> I've carried my Kelty Redwing all over the world.  It's served me well over the past three years and, other than some well earned dirt and stains, has not fallen apart at all.  But will Big Army let you sling a civilian pack?  Also, I've never overtly carried anything tactical in it, though I know it can be done.
> 
> I like TT's stuff.  I use their gear for my business.



I have one that I use for day hikes. Its a pretty good little pack.

I didn't like the MOLLE pack because of the quagmire of straps and the plastic frame that always found a way to break. I also didn't like the way the day pack mounted to it.

I didn't like the Marine ILBE pack because it didn't work well with armor and it extended to far above the shoulders making raising your head a PITA in the prone. There was still a quagmire of straps. It would be an great pack for extended civilian style hikes though.

Right now I use a moded large ALICE with a MR NICE frame. Its working for me so far.

I still don't like the whole theory that mounting a day pack to a ruck really works.


----------



## racing_kitty (Sep 28, 2008)

So I'm not the only one who thinks the plastic frames on the MOLLE rucks suck.  Haven't had a reason to use it downrange, so I haven't broken a frame yet.


----------



## Trip_Wire (Sep 28, 2008)

In my time in SF the rucksack we used was the old WWII rucksack. It was issued with a 'white' snow cover, since our cold war mission at the time dictated snow camo. I always thought it was a better Ruck than a lot of the newer ones. Sometimes I think we overload our soldiers. 

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_mountain_rucksack.php


----------



## Poccington (Sep 28, 2008)

Irish_Army01 said:


> Its is..it has one main compartment and a divider at the base for easier access to kit. The two side pouches can come off and make a day sac but as we were issued a sabre(lowe Alpine 35ltr) we 'll be using that as a patrol pack.
> 
> It has a floating lid which acts as compression for your kit..all round great pack.
> 
> The main is 100 ltr and the side pouches bring it up to 120 ltr.



I'm not that sold on the new pack yet. I haven't done any major walking in it but I've worn it with weight in it and it just didn't seem right on my back. 

Then again, I always had a thing for the PLCE Backpack


----------



## Ender (Oct 23, 2008)

Invisible J said:


> http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/nice_frames.php



ahh someone else that uses mystery ranch, I just ended up getting their grizzly pack. I paid out the ass for it, but I just went on a "test ruck" with it (I'm on R&R right now) and it's TOTALLY worth the money. I'll see how it holds up once I'm back and running surv, but so far it's leagues and bounds above the alice and molle.


----------



## 11B-B4 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ive been running the TT MALICE 3 for 4 years now... its enough for me. Ive never been pitched gear that it wouldnt take. The 1000 denier holds up nice, looks like the day i bought it.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jan 5, 2009)

I've been a bit loathe to post things I make up here as I don't want it to look like I'm soliciting but I though I would post this one up here to give guys an idea of what they can do with a an Alice pack aside from the Malice if they are still using one.  Please don't PM me to build one, I live in NZ and I'm busy enough catering to my Battalion and guys that wear to much hair gel but if you want the dimensions for something similar I'm more than happy to help, I can even recommend a few good stitch bitches CONUS that can hook you up.

I know some of the older guys will look at it and think I'm on drugs for having so many pouches and I do agree it's overkill but I have a list of stuff I have to take and this is the only way I can do it.  I also use a Karrimor SF but I don't really like it in the jungle as it sits a bit high and I'm always getting snagged on wait a while and shit.

This pack design was originally thought up by a chap known as the Rexpert from 1NZSAS, even with all the 1000d it weighs slightly less than out issue Alice and enables you to only have to go inside the pack to conduct night routine, everything you need for the day to day stuff is on the outside.






Front overall view.  The central pouch is massive to fit 3 days broken down rations, 





Side zipper pouch with wet weather trousers.  Jacket goes in the other side.





Top three snivel gear pouches.  Snivel pouch, sized to fit a gas can and cooker.





Main lid compartment, you can fit a mammoth amount of gear in here.





Top claymore pouch.  It fits 2 claymores prepped up, some wanker thought a 5 man team was perfectly capable of ambushing so SOP changed to two.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Aug 29, 2009)

so, not to be a necromancer or anything....  but since I'm looking for a MR NICE frame, which one is it that you can use with the ALICE?  or do they not have it anymore?  do you have to do any modifications to the pack in order to fit the frame, or does it slip right over?  Inquiring minds want to know. :)

the link that's ben posted in this thread isn't good anymore;  MR changed the site considerably.


----------



## surgicalcric (Aug 29, 2009)

There are two NICE frames, the difference is the max recommended weight to be supported.  They are the same functionally.

I would get the more heavy duty one if I were you.

Crip


----------



## Centermass (Aug 29, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> so, not to be a necromancer or anything....  but since I'm looking for a MR NICE frame, which one is it that you can use with the ALICE?  or do they not have it anymore?  do you have to do any modifications to the pack in order to fit the frame, or does it slip right over?  Inquiring minds want to know. :)
> 
> the link that's ben posted in this thread isn't good anymore;  MR changed the site considerably.



Again, as with the ALICE, the standard to affix most is with either FASTEX buckles, grommets, nylon straps or even a combination of them all.    

Try this one- Link


----------



## Pete031 (Aug 31, 2009)

Just started using a Mystery Ranch 3 day assault pack.....Really like it so far. everything is extra long, like the sternum strap, so it makes it easier to use over top of your flak and rig. Has two comparments for bladders and has a harness for a radio if needs be. 

The waist belt can be folded away in a pouch when not in use, and it has a 3 zipper system, so you can open the bag fully. has a great back support, which can be sized for the individual and is very comfortable.

The only thing that I think may be an issue, is that the bag is designed to go wide instead of out, when packing it. So you have to take that into account, when moving indoors with it.

But all things said and done I think it is a great pack and would recommend it to anyone.


----------



## AWP (Aug 31, 2009)

I found one ding on my Malice 3 and that is with the kidney pad ordered through TT. The buckles loosen up, seemingly with little to no load on them. I put a half-hitch in then using the free running end and the problem went away. Taping them would probably work too. Otherwise, the beast is awesome.


----------



## Trip_Wire (Aug 31, 2009)

The majority of time I was in SF we used the WW II Rucksack. It wasn't to bad and came with a white snow camo cover. (We didn't use the entrenching tool shown in the picture.) ;)

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_mountain_rucksack.php


----------



## x SF med (Aug 31, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> I found one ding on my Malice 3 and that is with the kidney pad ordered through TT. The buckles loosen up, seemingly with little to no load on them. I put a half-hitch in then using the free running end and the problem went away. Taping them would probably work too. Otherwise, the beast is awesome.


 
I was hoping you'd go with the Trash bags and 550 cord to make your own ruck...  Duct tape for the stress points.:doh:


----------



## Mac_NZ (Sep 1, 2009)

Free, is it the metal ladderlocks like the old Alice gear or a plastic ladderlock?  If its the old metal type there is a way to lash those straps that wont slip without the hitch.  Can you pass the running end back through the buckle?


----------



## AWP (Sep 1, 2009)

Mac_NZ said:


> Free, is it the metal ladderlocks like the old Alice gear or a plastic ladderlock?  If its the old metal type there is a way to lash those straps that wont slip without the hitch.  Can you pass the running end back through the buckle?



Plastic. The others like it on the bag have no problem, just the two on my kidney pad seem to do it. Once I put the half-hitch in the problem went away.


----------



## Mac_NZ (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm guessing they will be standard 1" Ladderlocks, probably Duraflex.  The reason the are slipping is a ladderlock is designed to allow slide adjustment on a level surface i.e. pull directly on it.  Because it is contouring with your waist it is being slightly rounded and allowing the tension to come off.  The solution is to either stitch the buckles so the teeth side is facing towards the pack or you can try doing these.  I recommend choking it back, if that doesn't work use the triglides (I can send you some if you need) I dont advise knotting your webbing as if it gets enough pressure on it, it locks down and will never come undone, you have to cut it and that will screw you up when it comes time to strip your pack if your frame blows out or you need to clean it for FET etc.

I hope this all makes sense dude, I've got my geek on.  I'll get started on Actetel and Nylon fittings comparison next...


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Sep 1, 2009)

informative!! thanks!!! I have the same problem and I just figured I didn't know how to properly install a kidney pad...  guess I know better now!


----------



## surgicalcric (Sep 1, 2009)

The TT kidney pad is notorious for having issues with slippage.  They also tend to roll a bit under heavy loads (>80 lbs).  For the reasons noted I used an Eagle Industries pad on my ruck for some time before switching to a NICE frame and eventually a Kifaru ruck.

I still have a slightly mod'd ALICE with standard frame sitting in my kit room in the event I go back down south....

Crip


----------



## EATIII (Dec 20, 2009)

I know I am a gear whore but I always am looking at new things. I saw this posted in another place by one of our old members and it has peaked my interest:uhh: now we all know Molle Rucks SUCK the frame even more:2c: But this looks interesting, have any of you seen or heard anything about this Frame and or Pack?

http://www.downeastinc.com/packs/packs.html

http://www.downeastinc.com/1606.html


----------



## FNULNU (Mar 19, 2010)

Anyone tried this out yet?  It's a collaboration between Camelbak and Mystery Ranch.  Considering getting it or the Kelty Falcon 4000...


----------



## Frisco (Mar 19, 2010)

I can't speak to that, BUT the only kelty I've ever owned had this problem where the waist strap would work itself loose every 10 min or so and dump all the weight on my shoulders..  and this was on a relatively flat trail, pack weight couldn't have been more than 35 or 40 lbs... :2c:


----------



## x SF med (Mar 19, 2010)

Cupcake-
look into the Lowe Alpine Series too... We tested them when I was at Devens - not bad, but the MilSpec version was a little long/tall for me. One issue with internal frame packs... they get warm on your back and stay that way.  think about where you are going to be using it.


----------



## FNULNU (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, the Lowes are too long for me (63" if i really think tall).  I just picked up a Mystery Ranch Big Sky.  Went to the store and they pieced it together for me with the right size yoke and belt so it fits really well.  I'm going to give it a try tomorrow morning.  It was spendy, but hopefully I'll never have to buy another one.  It was tough deciding between getting the Mystery Ranch Frame and putting my alice on it or getting a whole pack, but I had a hard time swallowing 300 bucks for just a frame.


----------



## x SF med (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, this has to lead to a song....  Go Ask Alice - I love me my Large Alice (old style frame and all....)


----------



## FNULNU (Mar 20, 2010)

x SF med said:


> Oh, this has to lead to a song....  Go Ask Alice - I love me my Large Alice (old style frame and all....)


 
You can keep her.  I just tested out my new pack and it was the most comfortable thing I've ever put on my back (sorry SPC Smalls... ).  I haven't rucked in a while so I started out with a fairly light load of 35 lbs.  Usually on the first ruck after a long break it takes a little while to get comfortable under the weight again.  I threw this pack on and went about 10k.  It felt like a was wearing a fanny pack.  My back and shoulders never got sore (not even those pesky bulged disks),the weight never felt like a burden, and no limbs went numb.  My feet still suffered a bit, but that's gonna happen.  

Anyone want to buy an Arc'Teryx backpack?  I'm gonna ditch my civi bag and stick with this one for all endeavors.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 20, 2010)

I love my MALICE.  not crazy about the ALICE frame, but with the double padded Tac tailor kidney pad and straps, it's tits.  I'll upgrade to a MR NICE frame eventually, I just can't justify it yet.  we don't ruck hardly at all in the Cav.


----------



## Viking_Sauce (Jul 29, 2010)

Mystery Ranch *gotta love the grizzly for some long humps* followed closely by the ALICE pack. The best thing you can do with the MOLLE frame is never unwrap the bitch.
I was talking to some of the new guys that came over before I got out, Hood isn't even issuing the ALICE anymore, WTF?!


----------



## Mac_NZ (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm looking really hard at the DEI 1606 Alice compatible frame and strap kits.  Trying to organise a trial by my unit.
FNULNU, we have the MR Trizips, they are OK but no good for more than a night.  Do you have pics of your Mystery Ranch setup?


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 30, 2010)

Viking_Sauce said:


> I was talking to some of the new guys that came over before I got out, Hood isn't even issuing the ALICE anymore, WTF?!


 
not true. Well, at least not in my Battalion.... All of my nugs and myself got the big green tick and then the nugs got a MOLLE in RFI.  I got mine from CIF at Stewart 2 years ago.  I just keep the issue alice and all of the stupid suspenders and belt and such in the pack 'til it's time to turn it in when I PCS.


----------



## buffalo61 (Jul 30, 2010)

After all of the research I have done and reading the threads here, I am pretty much sold on the Mystery Ranch Nice Comm 2.  Perfect set up for what I need, but the only problem is that it is so damned expensive (with the frame and other accessories).  I tried to order it through my supply system but it is one of the few packs that they carry that doesn't have an assigned NSN.  

For anybody that has experience with the Mystery Ranch packs, how do they feel wearing them with body armor?  I know with my issued ILBE it is hard to get it to fit right over the plate carrier.  Haven't tested it with an Alice pack yet.

HeloMedic - Where is a good place to pick up the double padded Tac tailor kidney pad and straps?


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 30, 2010)

I ordered it through www.tacticaltailor.com 3 years ago, but now plenty of places that sell multiple manufacturers' gear have them.  look around.  also, wait and see when stuff goes on sale at Tac Tailor.  that helps too.


----------



## FNULNU (Jul 30, 2010)

buffalo61 said:


> After all of the research I have done and reading the threads here, I am pretty much sold on the Mystery Ranch Nice Comm 2.  Perfect set up for what I need, but the only problem is that it is so damned expensive (with the frame and other accessories).  I tried to order it through my supply system but it is one of the few packs that they carry that doesn't have an assigned NSN.
> 
> For anybody that has experience with the Mystery Ranch packs, how do they feel wearing them with body armor?  I know with my issued ILBE it is hard to get it to fit right over the plate carrier.  Haven't tested it with an Alice pack yet.
> 
> HeloMedic - Where is a good place to pick up the double padded Tac tailor kidney pad and straps?


 
Mystery ranch packs have an option to add "bolsters" to the frame.  They stabilize the ruck when you're wearing armor.  It's worth the extra 50 bucks to get these if you wear your pack with armor plates.  I don't know of any better system for dealing with armor.  The Bolster seam like a pretty simple trick actually though.  I kind of think you could make a similar thing for an alice frame... but I haven't attempted it.

I'll take picks of it and post them.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 30, 2010)

Mystery ranch packs have stupid pricing. Have you looked at Eberlestock


----------



## AWP (Jul 30, 2010)

Polar Bear said:


> Mystery ranch packs have stupid pricing.


 
About a year or so ago they went from 350-ish to over 600. I haven't returned to their website since.


----------



## FNULNU (Jul 30, 2010)

They are a lot of dough, but they also bring me much joy, and I don't spend a lot of money on stuff, so when I do, I want the best one, that has a life time guarantee so I will never have to buy another one again.


----------



## buffalo61 (Jul 31, 2010)

Polar Bear said:


> Mystery ranch packs have stupid pricing. Have you looked at Eberlestock


 
Just checked out Eberlestock.  Not a bad deal.  No joke about the Mystery Ranch pricing ($750 for the complete setup).  If I can't get the Mystery Ranch packs through my supply system, then I will definately look into Eberlestock.  They have a FAC pack that looks like it might work perfectly for what I need.  Do you have any personal experience with the Eberlestock packs?


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## Polar Bear (Jul 31, 2010)

buffalo61 said:


> Just checked out Eberlestock. Not a bad deal. No joke about the Mystery Ranch pricing ($750 for the complete setup). If I can't get the Mystery Ranch packs through my supply system, then I will definately look into Eberlestock. They have a FAC pack that looks like it might work perfectly for what I need. Do you have any personal experience with the Eberlestock packs?


 
Love my Eberlestock http://www.eberlestock.com/F3F%20FAC%20Track.htm 1 problem It is to short for me It is more of a day pack


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## 8'Duece (Jul 31, 2010)

Polar Bear said:


> Love my Eberlestock http://www.eberlestock.com/F3F%20FAC%20Track.htm 1 problem It is to short for me It is more of a day pack


 


You do alot of hiking do ya ?

You guy's can keep your old Alice packs.  With what is available today I see no reason to torture ones self with an old Alice and old frame.  At least for us day and overnight type hikers.  My Blackhawk packs have stood up better than any Alice pack ever would.  Not to mention the room for a Hydo-pack built into the frame, MOLLE attachements everywhere and anywhere you could want them.  The self cooling back pad and easy straps and belt. Not at the top of the list but damn good gear. 

I gave Pardus a Blackhawk RAPTOR and he will swear on it.


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## Polar Bear (Jul 31, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> You do alot of hiking do ya ?


 
I use to, the Eberlestock is my Go Bag


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## _KJ_ (Aug 1, 2010)

Berghaus "Trident".
120 ltr.
Sidepouches come off to make a daypack.

Positive:
Good comfortable pack with just enough compartments for easy access of materials during nighttime operations.
Metalframe are ribs inside the backpadding wich makes it possible to alter the signature of the pack after you own preference.


Negative:
The zipper for connecting the sidepouches together tends to get worn out and needs to be replaced after a couple of years usage.
Doesn´t come in desert, you´ll have to get it done yourself if the pack are going out on combatpatrols.
No framework in the daypack.


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## 8'Duece (Aug 1, 2010)

Polar Bear said:


> I use to, the Eberlestock is my Go Bag



I never heard of them until I saw yours. Looks likes nice stuff.


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## x SF med (Aug 1, 2010)

8'Duece said:


> I never heard of them until I saw yours. Looks likes nice stuff.


 
Well, you do think 2 yard waste sized hefty bags, duct tape and 550 cord is a rucksack...


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## bigred3845 (Aug 7, 2010)

Try PLAT-A-TAC at www.platatac.com. Aussie company that makes a lot of stuff for Australian and British military.


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## digrar (Aug 7, 2010)

Also known as plat a crap by the boys...


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 7, 2010)

digrar said:


> Also known as plat a crap by the boys...


 
Unless I go work design for them, they might have some interesting new products then as well.


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## digrar (Aug 7, 2010)

That' the rep they've got mate, not sure if that news has made it's way across the Tasman, probably less about design and more about quality. A bloke that used to work for them went off and started SORD, I've heard nothing but good things about his stuff.


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 7, 2010)

Yeah it has mate.  I finger fucked a lot of their gear and identified most of the issues.  Pretty much the whole line needs a revamp.  I thought about SORD as well but could probably achieve more at Platatac as their production facility could handle more.  Silly things like split front chest rigs that are 6 columns wide definitely need to change, Melbourne is a nice place to live as well.


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## digrar (Aug 7, 2010)

Speaking of Melbourne, I finished unpacking about 5 minutes ago, officially a Melbournian now.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Aug 14, 2010)

I go back to EFMB in January, for my 2nd try.  I'm working on my ruck time.  I HAVE to use either a MOLLE ruck, or an ALICE ruck.  now - I have the Malice in multicam, but I don't need a new bag, just a better frame/strap set-up.  I'm going to call MR and see if the NICE frame can be made to adapt to the MOLLE ruck bag, or something like that.  basically, I don't want to get DQ'd for using an unauthorized ruck, but I do want it to be more comfortable on my back.


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 14, 2010)

The MR frame will fit, so will the DEI 1606AC frame and strap kit.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Aug 15, 2010)

I can't use my MALICE for Expert Field Medic Badge... they have specific packing lists and issue equipment must be used during the course for standardization purposes.  now, I can modify the issue stuff, like use comfier straps or a thicker kidney pad, but it has to be the UCP (ACU) MOLLE Large bag, on a plastic DEI frame.  in other words, it has to look like it's the MOLLE Large ruck.  if the DEI 1606 Frame can be used with the MOLLE Large bag, and then I just use some other straps or whatever, then that's fine, but it says at the bottom of the 1606 frame option in direct sales: "Although it is possible to use the #1606 Packframe on MOLLE Large Pad Sets & Ruck, it is not an application we recommend."

if I have to suck it up and deal with the issue MOLLE just for EFMB, then so be it.... but any edge I can get, I'll take, ya know?  (especially if it will still work with my MALICE after the fact.)

if this doesn't work, I guess it's back to saving the dinars for the MR NICE frame and then see if there's a way to make it work with a MOLLE Large bag.


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 15, 2010)

Do you have a UCP Alice?  I know both frames will work in the Alice sleeve.

I owned a Molle gen 2 for about two days, it took me that long to decide I would have more joy with a recyclable grocery bag.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Aug 15, 2010)

I totally agree.  I've never broken buckles tightening straps on an ALICE, and I've never found a load I couldn't pack right in one either.  I DO have a green ALICE, and it was issued to me with the original frame.  So I could always use that... I have another 4-ish months to figure it out, so there's no rush.  but I get my clothing allowance in September, so I know I'll have what i need by Jan.    have you ever used the 1606?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Aug 15, 2010)

and by "i could always use that..." I don't mean that damn ALICE frame.....


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## Mac_NZ (Aug 16, 2010)

I used a 1606 frame before they caved into pressure and made them to fit straight into an Alice so mine was chopped and I used Molle 2 shoulder straps and a modded Alice kidney pad with it.  I liked it, better than steel abortion it came with.


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## Brent5738 (Aug 31, 2010)

I have been wanting to get a rucksack for a while so that I am somewhat familiar with marching before I ship out, but not sure what kind to get. Should I just wait until I am in? :confused:


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## pardus (Aug 31, 2010)

Brent5738 said:


> I have been wanting to get a rucksack for a while so that I am somewhat familiar with marching before I ship out, but not sure what kind to get. Should I just wait until I am in? :confused:


 
Get the same ruck that you be issued with. i.e. Army = MOLLE


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## EATIII (Aug 31, 2010)

pardus said:


> Get the same ruck that you be issued with. i.e. Army = MOLLE



Fuck That, Why have 2 pieces of shit, You can still use an alice with your unit when you get there. When you get your Molle from CIF just keep it in the duffle so it will be nice and clean for TA-50 layout and then turn in when you pcs or ets.


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## x SF med (Aug 31, 2010)

pardus said:


> Get the same ruck that you be issued with. i.e. Army = MOLLE


 
I loaded a MOLLE ruck once, the frame broke while I was lifting it.  My ALICE is older than a good number of the members of the board and is still going strong.  No contest.


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## pardus (Aug 31, 2010)

EATIII said:


> Fuck That, Why have 2 pieces of shit, You can still use an alice with your unit when you get there. When you get your Molle from CIF just keep it in the duffle so it will be nice and clean for TA-50 layout and then turn in when you pcs or ets.


 


x SF med said:


> I loaded a MOLLE ruck once, the frame broke while I was lifting it.  My ALICE is older than a good number of the members of the board and is still going strong.  No contest.



Blah blah blah from the pensioner crowd, get back in your rocking chairs.

Some units require you to use the current issue gear, I.E. ACU MOLLE, mine certainly does. He is also going to basic training which is going to require him to use a MOLLE.
You are required to use a MOLLE during basic training, during RANGER school and during SFAS, you make the choice.

Personally I think all US Mil rucks are shite, cant beat the Brit issue Bergen. :2c:


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## madness unseen (Aug 31, 2010)

Wish I could find out the exact brand of the frame and bag I used (was issued) at Indoc, I loved the layout of that ruck. But until then, I'm stuck with my regular old school ALICE I've had for four years. Worked just fine on my ruck last night :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AWP (Aug 31, 2010)

LOL....worrying about what ruck to train with? You need to be worried about things like your feet and conditioning, you can worry about ruck selection some other day.


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## EATIII (Aug 31, 2010)

pardus said:


> Blah blah blah from the pensioner crowd, get back in your rocking chairs.
> 
> Some units require you to use the current issue gear, I.E. ACU MOLLE, mine certainly does. He is also going to basic training which is going to require him to use a MOLLE.
> You are required to use a MOLLE during basic training, during RANGER school and during SFAS, you make the choice.
> ...



T, Just because you are now HSLD don't forget Rucking is Rucking. Helo medic had the option for his EFMB why? because it is still an Issue Item (it is listed on the page). I Dont buy that everyone in your Unit rocks a molle, I'm sure you do due to you just being issued your gear. Hell if you/him want to blend in get a Large alice in ACU (Hint Malice) . Again Rucking is Rucking It sucks no Mater what!


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## pardus (Aug 31, 2010)

EATIII said:


> T, Just because you are now HSLD don't forget Rucking is Rucking. Helo medic had the option for his EFMB why? because it is still an Issue Item (it is listed on the page). I Dont buy that everyone in your Unit rocks a molle, I'm sure you do due to you just being issued your gear. Hell if you/him want to blend in get a Large alice in ACU (Hint Malice) . Again Rucking is Rucking It sucks no Mater what!


 
_NOW_ HSLD? lol! This is the lowest speed Ive ever been at :doh:

In my unit It is directive that the only gear to be used/carried is current issue ACU. Interesting point about an ACU ALICE though, In wonder if that could be slipped through? but as combat ops are focused on A'stan now which is a multicam theater whats the point?

And yes rucking is rucking, its hard and it hurts, after an hour the ruck sucks regardless of brand but the right fit for you can make a big difference IMO, just like boots.


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## 0699 (Aug 31, 2010)

pardus said:


> _NOW_ HSLD? lol! *This is the lowest speed Ive ever been at* :doh:
> 
> In my unit It is directive that the only gear to be used/carried is current issue ACU. Interesting point about an ACU ALICE though, In wonder if that could be slipped through? but as combat ops are focused on A'stan now which is a multicam theater whats the point?
> 
> And yes rucking is rucking, its hard and it hurts, after an hour the ruck sucks regardless of brand but the right fit for you can make a big difference IMO, just like boots.


 
LOL


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## HeloMedic1171 (Sep 1, 2010)

Freefalling said:


> You need to be worried about things like your feet and conditioning, you can worry about ruck selection some other day.


 
x2



EATIII said:


> if you/him want to blend in get a Large alice in ACU (Hint Malice) .



yup.  I heart my Malice, and you can always upgrade the frame/straps/kidney pad or whatever. just re-read the first bunch of pages in this thread.



pardus said:


> _NOW_ as combat ops are focused on A'stan now which is a multicam theater whats the point?



which is another reason to wait til he's in to spend money on a nice rucksack.  Also as part of the RIF package for the 'stan, they're issuing a lot of kit in Multicam.  I *think* it includes a medium ruck, but i could be mistaken.


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## Brent5738 (Sep 1, 2010)

Freefalling said:


> You need to be worried about things like your feet and conditioning, you can worry about ruck selection some other day.



That's what I was wondering. Thank you!


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## Brooklynben (Sep 1, 2010)

FYI - Kifaru has improved their line of packs with what they call "Generation 2".  Their large packs didn't see any big significant changes, but they're now selling their remaining first Generation packs for 50% off (limited stock and colors available).  You aren't going to get a much better opportunity.  www.kifaru.net


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## EATIII (Sep 1, 2010)

for crying out loud, Listen up Grasshopper. Free is 90% right, what you need to do is just Ruck with 35-45 lbs dry (meaning your water is extra) start out with a 3 then 6,8,12 miler and repeat the next week. But for the sake of Grits don't use your 2 dollar school backpack, go to a surplus store and spend 40 bucks on a used Alice w/frame. If you need straps/kidney pad I can send you some used stuff. No matter what you do in life/your career that Large ruck will always be useful if not for you but for a friend that wants to go Rucking/Hiking/camping with you and they don't have one. 

The Kifaru's are the cats pajamas, and that is truly a great deal! However it will be a long time off that you would be even close to you being able to use that in any Military way. Also you would be spoiled with it and your "Basic Rucking" skills would suffer.


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## Brent5738 (Sep 1, 2010)

Roger that. I have been using a WWII era pack I bought years ago for school from a surplus place, but it cuts the circulation of at the shoulders when it is loaded past 30lbs - hence the interest in finding an actual rucksack. The military surplus store here should have one like you have described, but I will check it out. What should I be packing it with? I read some people either use bags of kitty litter or sand, but the sand seems to me that it would weigh the pack down too much in one spot..?


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## pardus (Sep 1, 2010)

Brent5738 said:


> Roger that. I have been using a WWII era pack I bought years ago for school from a surplus place, but it cuts the circulation of at the shoulders when it is loaded past 30lbs - hence the interest in finding an actual rucksack. The military surplus store here should have one like you have described, but I will check it out. What should I be packing it with? I read some people either use bags of kitty litter or sand, but the sand seems to me that it would weigh the pack down too much in one spot..?


 
The weight should be against your back. As evenly distributed as possible. If its all at the bottom it will pull on the shoulders and fatigue them.
I will often use old phone books/yellow pages, fill my ruck with them to the desired weight, bags of garden mulch etc... they aren't densely heavy like sand so wont pool at the bottom of your ruck.


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## EATIII (Sep 1, 2010)

pardus said:


> The weight should be against your back. As evenly distributed as possible. If its all at the bottom it will pull on the shoulders and fatigue them.
> I will often use old phone books/yellow pages, fill my ruck with them to the desired weight, bags of garden mulch etc... they aren't densely heavy like sand so wont pool at the bottom of your ruck.



If you get an Alice there is this neat pocket inside made to carry a Radio:), put a sand bag or two in there and distribute the rest of weight between the pockets and the rest of the pack. use a sleeping bag or comforter as stuffing/being able to distribute the load.


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## pardus (Sep 1, 2010)

EATIII said:


> If you get an Alice there is this neat pocket inside made to carry a Radio:), put a sand bag or two in there and distribute the rest of weight between the pockets and the rest of the pack. use a sleeping bag or comforter as stuffing/being able to distribute the load.


 
True. I used to have an old 81mm dummy bomb that Id throw in that pouch.


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## madness unseen (Sep 1, 2010)

EATIII said:


> If you get an Alice there is this neat pocket inside made to carry a Radio:), put a sand bag or two in there and distribute the rest of weight between the pockets and the rest of the pack. use a sleeping bag or comforter as stuffing/being able to distribute the load.


 Thats how I load mine (I used to use steel plates from a bench set though, never sand) and then water bottles or tiny dumbells in the outer pockets. Made for a heavy S O B if I wanted it to be (I liked it around 70 lbs usually)
Sadly, now that I am starting up again after a year of zero rucking, I find myself with none of my previous load out supplies, only my ruck. But I now put functional items inside (for now, til I need more weight) and water bottles in the outer pockets. Radio pouch is empty at the moment but the bag is balanced. (fins wetsuit mask snorkel dive boots inside)


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## EATIII (Sep 1, 2010)

madness unseen said:


> Thats how I load mine (I used to use steel plates from a bench set though, never sand) and then water bottles or tiny dumbells in the outer pockets. Made for a heavy S O B if I wanted it to be (I liked it around 70 lbs usually)
> Sadly, now that I am starting up again after a year of zero rucking, I find myself with none of my previous load out supplies, only my ruck. But I now put functional items inside (for now, til I need more weight) and water bottles in the outer pockets. Radio pouch is empty at the moment but the bag is balanced. (fins wetsuit mask snorkel dive boots inside)


 
Good Stuff, I forgot weights! 

I CAN"T STRESS THIS ENOUGH (brent) DO NOT TRAIN WITH OVER 45LBS (DRY) DURING YOUR TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you get a feel for the lay of the land the rest will work itself out!


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## x SF med (Sep 1, 2010)

Advice from an old Troll... load a ruck like you would for the field, and to the weight you would need for say 5 days living. You'll learn how to pack what you need where you need it. Use gear not sandbags - learn how your ruck balances when you have mission stack, not weight plates in it. What's your basic load of ammo going to be - you'll have min 6x30rd rifle in your pouches, 1x30rd in your weapon, side arm and 4x pistol mags... so figure crew served issue, extra personal (side and long) of 3-400, extra water, rations, snivel gear, commo gear, clothing.... It's better to get good at carrying what you need, getting it in and out of your ruck (at night, no lights) than just humping the weight.

Weight plates close to your back in the radio pouch, with fluffy stuffing is miles from your D-gear stowed for action. Practice stops where you have to get stuff out and repack in short intervals... your ruck is your home, not just a big tick... Learn how to dump your ruck when you need to, and get it back in order.

A geared out ruck takes on a life of it's own, and it carries differently than a "pt" ruck - it was SOP for us to only carry geared out rucks for our marching days...  and I'm glad we did.


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## Headshot (Sep 1, 2010)

Didn't read all 7 pages, however in response to the title of the thread, rucksacks suck!!  It is your life in a big green tick however, and the load weight you will carry in whatever type you use will be positioned differently than just dead weight.  You might have shit poking you in the back when you get in the field that you didn't learn how to pack properly by using sand, plates, human heads, etc.  I have to go with the Troll on the above.


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## car (Sep 1, 2010)

Gotta weigh in. I made an earlier post but deleted it. Anyway......

Pack your ALICE like you would for any mission. Clothing, food, toiletries, water, sleeping bag, etc. Then walk with it. DON'T run with it. Walk as far as you can, go a little further each day. But in the end - the old saying keeps coming back - train as you fight - so, again, put in there what you would have in there, and carry that. Screw sandbags and all that other horseshit. 

Mine used to weigh about 45 lbs.


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## madness unseen (Sep 1, 2010)

I agree completely, thats why I like having my fins and all in it now, but given where I am stationed and the fact that my unit is not HSLD, I have no access to other gear to pack without utilizing self funds (which are lacking currently) and therefore I must improvise.. Thats what the steel plates were too, best I could do at the time, and back then I didnt want to keep my rocketfins in my bag (they were expensive and new) All of that steel plate stuff was when I was a civ trying to prepare my body for my PJ GTEP.  
Side note: dont do step ups wearing tennis shoes, a 70 lb ruck, and holding a 45 lb bench bar; when you roll your ankle it WILL suck. ;)


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## pardus (Sep 1, 2010)

He is a civilian, WTF does he know about field loading? Just saying.

That said it is better to field load.  :2c:


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## EATIII (Sep 1, 2010)

OK this Kid knows nothing about packing, field gear, sop's,, Mission essential equipment, Combat fighting Load,ETC. Hell troll why don't you send him an IBA, Molle LBE (complete with pouches,mags and ammo), ACH, Boots, and a set of ACU's because "Thats what he will be wearing when Humping a Ruck in the field" Oh don't forget 5 days worth of rations  and since you demed that he would have a side arm he needs a 9mil also. BTW the fluffy stuffing shit was to fill the BOTTOM of the Ruck so any other weight would be toward the top.

I would say this is a crawl stage as in crawl,walk, run. This was just PT Rucking advice, he can/learn to walk threw the woods like a ninja with a ruck on latter.

But what do I know!


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## pardus (Sep 1, 2010)

Agreed.



EATIII said:


> OK this Kid knows nothing about packing, field gear, sop's,, Mission essential equipment, Combat fighting Load,ETC. Hell troll why don't you send him an IBA, Molle LBE (complete with pouches,mags and ammo), ACH, Boots, and a set of ACU's because "Thats what he will be wearing when Humping a Ruck in the field" Oh don't forget 5 days worth of rations  and since you demed that he would have a side arm he needs a 9mil also. BTW the fluffy stuffing shit was to fill the BOTTOM of the Ruck so any other weight would be toward the top.
> 
> I would say this is a crawl stage as in crawl,walk, run. This was just PT Rucking advice, he can/learn to walk threw the woods like a ninja with a ruck on latter.
> 
> But what do I know!


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## x SF med (Sep 2, 2010)

If he has a ruck, clothing, boots, shoes, a parka, sleeping bag, some canned food, a tent, etc.  Then my post is valid...  these items can be excellent field training aids and expedients for the combat load items ...  flexibility and the ability to improvise are key as a soldier (generic term for any servicemember).  Knowing what's really going to be there and how it will ride is not something you want to find out in Basic, or a selection course, when you are used to perfect balance in your ruck from using plates.


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## madness unseen (Sep 2, 2010)

I promise you the plates I used in no way provided perfect balance, in fact they moved a lot even. I wrapped them in towels to take up some space and try and minimize them slamming into my spine too much, but they still would give me a little love tap every now and then. (I would doubletime a half mile at a time- do not advise this to anyone) They also rubbed holes in the pack which I was not too happy about. I recently got to let a buddy who had significant sere training mend the overstressed shoulders that were coming undone from all the weight and abuse I have put the thing through. Your list of other improvised items is a good one. 

The key is to fill it, and make it weigh a reasonable amount.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HeloMedic1171 (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree with CAR and the Troll, but I see EAT's point....

definitely pack your ruck with useable/semi-usable items.  a couple uniforms can be exchanged for a couple pairs of old jeans and a pair of long sleeve shirts, sweaters, or a couple really light jackets or some hooded sweaters.  socks are socks, throw in a few pairs of those.  boots? if you don't have a pair, a couple pairs of sneakers will weigh close to the same.  as for food and gear - 

Canned food is fine, or camp food if you're an outdoorsy-type, also bags of sunflower seeds, trail mix, or really whatever you want in there.  a good heavy jacket or parks will equate to some sniffle/snivel gear (cold weather shite) and you can get creative with ammo, commo, and the like.  it also depends on your job - I carry plenty o' ammo, but I don't carry crew-served loadout or commo, beyond a small motorola or *maybe* an MBITR.  I get a pass for the 30 to 40 LBs. of aid station on top of my ruck, and frankly, I'm nearly always near my PSG, PL, or a SL with one.  BUT - you could still use a brick instead of an MBITR, and then fold up a small tentpole (if you have a tent, if not, it's not important to buy one just for this) to use as an "antennae".  you could also get some 2x4 scraps, or something similar in size to a STANAG magazine in size.  a 30 rd mag weighs approx. 1.5 LBs, so 6 of them weighs 9 Lbs.  all in all, it'll take creativity, but once you've assembled around 40-50Lbs. (I also recommend 45 Lbs.) of stuff, start packing it in your ruck.  I think you can try field packing it later, for right now arrange it so it doesn't poke you in the back or lean to one side.  best of luck.


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

Ive never understood extra uniforms and boots in a ruck, a total fucking waste of time and space IMO.
WTF good is that?
Your ruck loading is going to change between every mission, most of the shit I carried is because some asshole Officer or SNCO told me to take some worthless shit I didnt need and never used, I can go light and perform :2c: 
Ammo, commo, warmth and water are must have's with regards to weight.


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## Headshot (Sep 3, 2010)

In regard to the POSSIBLE recruit in question and rucking (which it seems this thread has turned into ), I (as stated before) haven't read all seven pages of this and that.  However, where this young person is concerned, I would like to see them post their current PT score based on 2 min pushups, 2 min situps, 2 mile run, and see if all the brewhaha is even worth posting.  All the rucking in the world won't mean a thang if you ain't got the swang.  I agree with parts of many and most of some, but I will tell you this; people in training aspects hated to have me as the pace man due to my stride and drive.  If this hopeful isn't meeting the PT standards then all of this back and forth is just a bunch of in-house cock fighting.  Tuck your shit back in, sit back down on the shitter, and hold your side of the newspaper until he posts some PT scores.


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## car (Sep 3, 2010)

Headshot said:


> In regard to the POSSIBLE recruit in question and rucking (which it seems this thread has turned into ), I (as stated before) haven't read all seven pages of this and that.  However, where this young person is concerned, I would like to see them post their current PT score based on 2 min pushups, 2 min situps, 2 mile run, and see if all the brewhaha is even worth posting.  All the rucking in the world won't mean a thang if you ain't got the swang.  I agree with parts of many and most of some, but I will tell you this; people in training aspects hated to have me as the pace man due to my stride and drive.  If this hopeful isn't meeting the PT standards then all of this back and forth is just a bunch of in-house cock fighting.  Tuck your shit back in, sit back down on the shitter, and hold your side of the newspaper until he posts some PT scores.



You're such a wet woobie.......


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

car said:


> You're such a wet woobie.......


 
I would've said cock muncher but I see your point


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## Brent5738 (Sep 3, 2010)

PT scores? Alright, but my last PT test was proctored by my recruiter about 3 months ago, and she only gave me 1:00 minute for cals rather than 2:00. Also, I was only timed for a 1.5 mile, not a 2 mile.

Pushups: 50
Situps: 60
1.5 mile: 10:20

Is that legit enough?


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

That's OK, you still need to do some work though, particularly on your run.


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

If we are going to get anal about how to load the ruck then we need to go back to my original point and ensure he uses the ruck he is issued with I.E. the MOLLE, because the style of ruck makes huge difference when humping it.



x SF med said:


> If he has a ruck, clothing, boots, shoes, a parka, sleeping bag, some canned food, a tent, etc.  Then my post is valid...  these items can be excellent field training aids and expedients for the combat load items ...  flexibility and the ability to improvise are key as a soldier (generic term for any servicemember).  Knowing what's really going to be there and how it will ride is not something you want to find out in Basic, or a selection course, when you are used to perfect balance in your ruck from using plates.


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## madness unseen (Sep 3, 2010)

Since he (brent) has been asking me about PJ indoc, I can deduce that the MOLLE is not what he'd be issued, at least not at first. As for further in the pipeline, those more knowledgeable than me on the matter would have to chime in.
The ALICE prepared me well, I felt. What I was given at Indoc worked significantly better (hence why I wish I could find out what it was and look into buying one personally) but still was a version of the ALICE, so far as I could tell. (maybe a MALICE even)


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

OK, didnt know he was looking as AF, in that case he should get an ALICE.


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## Brent5738 (Sep 3, 2010)

I didn't mean to take over this thread, but I sincerely appreciate all of te information everyone is taking the time to share with me. Thank you!


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## x SF med (Sep 3, 2010)

pardus said:


> If we are going to get anal about how to load the ruck then we need to go back to my original point and ensure he uses the ruck he is issued with I.E. the MOLLE, because the style of ruck makes huge difference when humping it.


 
Agreed as to choice of ruck.  I still believe it shoud be packed with gear and supplies to get the correct idea for loading.  That way he'll be able to tell what the feel of different methods of packing while moving - learn by experience what needs to sit where, without damaging kidneys by bouncing hard, sharp corners of things off of them.

Brent - have you gotten through the frequency drift here and figured out which of the information you need?


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## Headshot (Sep 3, 2010)

Rucksacks suck!!


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## madness unseen (Sep 3, 2010)

Headshot said:


> Rucksacks suck!!


 Nah, I love em.

Btw... Mine currently weighs 25 lbs with my uber light load. (see some previous post about fins etc)


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## 0699 (Sep 3, 2010)

Headshot said:


> In regard to the POSSIBLE recruit in question and rucking (which it seems this thread has turned into ), I (as stated before) haven't read all seven pages of this and that.  However, where this young person is concerned, I would like to see them post their current PT score based on 2 min pushups, 2 min situps, 2 mile run, and see if all the brewhaha is even worth posting.  All the rucking in the world won't mean a thang if you ain't got the swang.  I agree with parts of many and most of some, but I will tell you this; people in training aspects hated to have me as the pace man due to my stride and drive.  If this hopeful isn't meeting the PT standards *then all of this back and forth is just a bunch of in-house cock fighting*.  Tuck your shit back in, sit back down on the shitter, and hold your side of the newspaper until he posts some PT scores.


 
Yeah, but it's like masturbation.  May not get you anywhere, but it's fun and it passes the time...


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## pardus (Sep 3, 2010)

LMFAO!!!


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## AWP (Sep 4, 2010)

So can we move this thread back to the original topic or do we want to Achille Lauro this some more?


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## Swiftreco (Sep 9, 2010)

I did some reading around this tab on the forum and haven't seen much on the Blackhawk SOF ruck.  Just thought I would give my comments.  Nice ruck overall really durable, HOWEVER, the straps slip a bunch.  Any weight over 50lbs you will find yourself adjusting constantly.  Don't get me wrong, the actual straps are comfy as hell and dont f up the shoulders but again, slippage.  The waist strap has some slipping too.  Outside of those issues I love my ruck, I'd take it everywhere with me if I could haha.  I did get new straps and a waist strap from Tactical tailer and have zero complaints, great straps, no slippage.  I also just sent away for the "ALIpad" (infact I think someone was asking about this product earlier in a thread).  It's a pad that runs the straps and on the frame of the ruck eliminating the need for Isomat or whatever else people put on their backs.  It also has an area for 100oz water bag and an area for an IV blow out bag if wanted.  Great piece of kit a couple of buddies in my team use them.


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