# Rangers or SF



## lockNload (Mar 5, 2007)

I read on here and various other places that SF and Rangers have distinct cultures. I was hoping someone could elaborate on that for me. Also, I will provide some info on me to perhaps gain some insight from you all on where I best belong. I think I'm drawn more to the missions of Rangers and Delta with conducting DA. I don't have a huge desire to train people. However, I love the fact that SF works in small units and is very autonomous. I also thrive on being given responsibility and engaging in problem solving. I'm aware of the fact that some of the brightest people in the Army serve within SF and not to sound cocky but I consider myself pretty intelligent. It seems that the Rangers stress more traditional pt such as running and push ups whereas SF is focused on rucking and land navigation as the most important physical elements. I'm eager to get downrange since I've been missing out for the past 5 1/2 years so I realize Rangers would let me jump in to the spec ops world rather quickly and see how I like it and get deployed soon. SF on the other hand would require 1 1/2 to 2 years of training. Sorry for the long rant. Feel free to offer any input.


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## x SF med (Mar 5, 2007)

LockNLoad -
if you fill out your profile with some useable info, so I know better with whom I am conversing, I'll answer you on some of the SF items above.  I will tell you this, you really need to do more in depth research, and Delta is far down the line for you, you need to be a very seasoned soldier to even think about going that route.  sounds like you are a badgefinder, glory hound, braggart from your intro, my guess is you're about 19 and full of piss and vinegar.

You need to check your SA, and your cockiness - you would not do well in either SF or the more specialized units - you don't know how to be a grey man and check your ego at the door.

Fill us in on your background a little more fully, and I'm sure the other SF guys and the Rangers here will help guide you a unit that will allow you to succeed, learn and grow.  right now, I think you'd probaly better start at the 82nd.

just my .02, YMMV


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## lockNload (Mar 5, 2007)

I just updated my profile. I'm sorry if I came off negatively. It's hard to convey info about oneself on the internet and I just wanted to provide some info on myself. I'm actually very humble in person. My intro states that I just graduated from college so I'm 23, not 19. As far as research goes, I've been reading all the books I can and watching documentaries for the past 10 years, along with talking to actual SOF guys online/in person. I realize Delta is a very long ways off. I was just saying that my initial attraction is more towards Rangers and Delta than SF. Not sure how I came off as a glory hound from my simple intro to you. Sorry for doing so.


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## x SF med (Mar 5, 2007)

You do realize that about 80% of the guys in Delta come out of SF, and go back to SF - right? 

Are you enlisting or going Officer?  that's going to be a huge factor in where you go also.


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## lockNload (Mar 5, 2007)

Gentlemen, I'm sorry I even mentioned Delta. I think what I said has been stretched a bit. I'm not sitting here as a wannabe planning on going in the Army and being in Delta in the near future. All I said was that was that I was more _drawn to them, simply from what I've learned thus far. I'm trying to focus on the 25m target by looking at Rangers and SF. I didn't realize most of the guys in Delta were SF and went back to SF. I had always heard that most of them come from Rangers or SF though. 

As far as which path I'm pursuing, simply comparing Army and Marines I choose Marines. I've changed my mind a lot in the past on which branch and for the past 6 months have been pretty solid on wanting to be a Marine Officer and hopefully get infantry. I've always had a passionate interest in spec ops and the only reason I would choose the Army would be to pursue Rangers or SF. I understand it's very competitive to get in either as an officer so I would enlist to pursue that course._


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## x SF med (Mar 5, 2007)

You have to figure out what you want to do - on patrol you have no time to waver - do I go left? do I go right? do I duck? do I run?  whatcha gonna do PL?  Huh?  Huh?  Figure out where, figure out when, figure out how, figure out why.


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## 0699 (Mar 5, 2007)

lockNload said:


> Gentlemen, I'm sorry I even mentioned Delta. I think what I said has been stretched a bit. I'm not sitting here as a wannabe planning on going in the Army and being in Delta in the near future. All I said was that was that I was more _drawn to them, simply from what I've learned thus far. I'm trying to focus on the 25m target by looking at Rangers and SF. I didn't realize most of the guys in Delta were SF and went back to SF. I had always heard that most of them come from Rangers or SF though.
> 
> As far as which path I'm pursuing, simply comparing Army and Marines I choose Marines. I've changed my mind a lot in the past on which branch and for the past 6 months have been pretty solid on wanting to be a Marine Officer and hopefully get infantry. I've always had a passionate interest in spec ops and the only reason I would choose the Army would be to pursue Rangers or SF. I understand it's very competitive to get in either as an officer so I would enlist to pursue that course._


_

Stud-

To quote the Nike shoe company, just do it.  Don't sit on the computer asking "should I go SF or Delta".  Honestly, the chances of you making either of those units are very slim.  Go to your local recruiting office and either sign a contract with the Army for 18X or Option 40 or the Corps for 0321.  Both options will give you an opportunity to try out for some HSLD stuff.  Be advised that the percentage of people that succeed is smaller than the number of people that don't make it.  If you don't make it, you'll spend the rest of your time in the military as an 11B or an 0311.

Also, if you are going to become an officer of Marines because you'll "hopefully" get selected for infantry, understand that as a Marine officer you get assigned to whatever field you're needed in.  Except for lawyer and aviation, there are NO guaratees for officers.  I know several Marine officers that joined the Corps to be an infantry officer and are now a communications or supply officer.

Good luck.

PS:  For you, the 25 meter target is joining the military and making it through basic training.  Focus on that._


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## EATIII (Mar 5, 2007)

Lock an Want to Load,I think your post said--SF or Ranger.These two entities
similar,yet Different are totally different than the Marines.Exactly what Info do you want,Hers a Little Music for you wile you make up you mind.

http://mailafriend.guide.real.com/index.html?link=http://www.armyranger.com/media/RI_Theme_Song.wma


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## lockNload (Mar 5, 2007)

x SF med, were there some more things you were going to share about SF after I filled out my profile?

I feel the urgent need to make up my mind. I'm done with school and want to finally get in the military. 0699, yes I understand and you are correct. I also post on marineocs.com and talk with current candidates and Marine Officers over there. There are a lot of infantry slots right now with 9th Marines being stood up so chances are stronger than usual at least.

EATIII, you're correct. I guess this is shifting to what I want overall but the purpose was to gain greater knowledge about the differences in SF and Ranger and the type of people that serve within each.


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## EATIII (Mar 5, 2007)

OK,I'm not going to Kick you in the nuts (yet). If your in such a Hurry go with either Service,go to Meps,Take your ASVAB,and then you know what you even qualify for.You wont be Locked in ,the scores can be transfered to whatever Branch you chose.Time to start the Pros & cons List.But you need a Base Line.Just because you are a College Grad Doesn't mean Shit,I've Had Friends That scored really low on the ASVAB and they had a Degree.

Like it was said earlier,Keep your eye on the 25 meter Target,Follow Bob,Baby
Steps.


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## lockNload (Mar 5, 2007)

EATIII, since you brought it up, I took the ASVAB after high school and scored an 84. I realize I will have to take it again if I go enlisted. I met with a Marine OSO and have a pretty competitive package and have started the process. Right now I just want to make up my mind then go further. Oh I also applied for Army ROTC while in high school so I completed the DODMERB. I realize it's a little different then MEPS, but I shouldn't have a problem with that either.


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## EATIII (Mar 5, 2007)

lockNload said:


> EATIII, since you brought it up, I took the ASVAB after high school and scored an 84. I realize I will have to take it again if I go enlisted. I met with a Marine OSO and have a pretty competitive package and have started the process. Right now I just want to make up my mind then go further. Oh I also applied for Army ROTC while in high school so I completed the DODMERB. I realize it's a little different then MEPS, but I shouldn't have a problem with that either.



OK,since you brought it up.What were your Line Scores ie; GT,GM,EL,CL,MM,SC,CO,FA,OF,ST,these have a great Bearing on your Mos.
Are You Color Blind,Any Pre Existing Conditions that might need a Waiver.People & Doctor's at MEPS want to Fail you it's a fact of Life.Go threw the whole process then you can evaluate your position Better.


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## 0699 (Mar 5, 2007)

lockNload said:


> ...I feel the urgent need to make up my mind. I'm done with school and want to finally get in the military. 0699, yes I understand and you are correct. I also post on marineocs.com and talk with current candidates and Marine Officers over there. There are a lot of infantry slots right now with 9th Marines being stood up so chances are stronger than usual at least...



What is this based on?  By the time you complete OCS, TBS, IOC (if selected for infantry), the battalions standing up (9th Marines is not standing up BTW, just some battalions) will be long filled.

Again, quit trying to over plan.  Decide if you want to go Marine or Army, then do it.


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## x SF med (Mar 5, 2007)

lockNload said:


> EATIII, since you brought it up, I took the ASVAB after high school and scored an 84. I realize I will have to take it again if I go enlisted. I met with a Marine OSO and have a pretty competitive package and have started the process. Right now I just want to make up my mind then go further. Oh I also applied for Army ROTC while in high school so I completed the DODMERB. I realize it's a little different then MEPS, but I shouldn't have a problem with that either.



Forget SF, end of discussion, if that was your GT, you barely qualify to get into the Army.  Minimum GT for SF consideration is currently 110, to be an Infantry Officer you need to be at 95.


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## rangerpsych (Mar 5, 2007)

Guess I'm glad I had a 127... lol


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## EATIII (Mar 5, 2007)

x SF med said:


> Forget SF, end of discussion, if that was your GT, you barely qualify to get into the Army.  Minimum GT for SF consideration is currently 110, to be an Infantry Officer you need to be at 95.



X SF,I think he was referring to the total score,That is why I was asking about line scores. A 32 will get you in the Army and normally a 70 will result in line scores over 110 across the Board,However I have seen a 94 score with 100 and below for line scores.But we will see,If I had his ss # I could pull them,if it is within the last 2 yrs, or at all ?


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## x SF med (Mar 5, 2007)

I was depressed back in the dark ages when I took the ASVAB, I had a score below 110, in FA, it was like 109, everything else was over 120, my GT was 132, 135 - it was a long time ago....  I never even thought about the total score - all they wanted to know was the GT for my SF contract,  I guess I was pretty smart for a dumbass - they let me cut and sew on people after a few years of shooting at them, even let me carry drugs of the code R&Q variety.


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## EATIII (Mar 5, 2007)

x SF med said:


> I was depressed back in the dark ages when I took the ASVAB, I had a score below 110, in FA, it was like 109, everything else was over 120, my GT was 132, 135 - it was a long time ago....  I never even thought about the total score - all they wanted to know was the GT for my SF contract,  I guess I was pretty smart for a dumbass - they let me cut and sew on people after a few years of shooting at them, even let me carry drugs of the code R&Q variety.



Those are some Great scores,nothing you couldn't of Qualifyed for.From my Experience if you took the test now you probably would score even Higher.I don't know how that it works out that way,but it does.lol a long time since HS Algebra 1,lol


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## lockNload (Mar 6, 2007)

0699, I said my info was from marineocs.com and I was just saying what the recent trend has been. I'm not sure how long it will continue but I was looking at OCC 195 which starts in June. 

First thing I'm going to do is make up my mind on branch. I will worry about MEPS when the time comes. I don't want some annoying, high pressure Army recruiter calling me if I end up going Marine Officer.

I was referring to my overall score being an 84 and this was like four years ago. I was told that I qualified for everything really. I could go spec ops or pilot with my scores so I'm sure my GT was over 110.


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## x SF med (Mar 6, 2007)

LockNLoad-
final piece of advice from a BTDT - don't bother with SF, you would already know if you were cut out for it, and your discussions here would have clued me in.  You don't even know which branch of service you really want, 25 m target is to figure thet out, the next is what do you want to do in that branch, 3rd do you want to be officer or enlisted - I would suggest enlisted, at least for now, your leadership skills are weak, I wouldn't follow yopu, based on the lack of conviction you've shown.  Not a debasement - a learning point - as an NCO in SF, I had to assume the leadership of foreign troops at Bn strength, that's an O5 position (LTC) so I know what I'm talking about - you have a lot to learn.

BTW, what's your degree in?


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## lockNload (Mar 6, 2007)

Major was Marketing Management. I have a minor in Political Science and graduated with a 3.9 gpa. PM inbound.


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## lockNload (Mar 6, 2007)

One thing I'll add publicly is that your number two and three questions I have already answered, it's only the branch I need to decide on. If I choose Marines then it's going to be as an officer and try for Infantry. If I choose Army then I'm enlisting with the goal of pursuing spec ops, probably Rangers.


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## Centermass (Mar 6, 2007)

Let us know when you make up your mind.......I'm getting dizzy :uhh:


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## LibraryLady (Mar 6, 2007)

Wow!

A 23 yo with a Marketing degree who knows everything! And it only took you 5 years to accomplish that, that's impressive.

Why ask for advice if you dismiss and disregard everything presented to you? These gentlemen have taken their precious time to give you, a total stranger, words of wisdom in a field where they are SME's*. You know absolutely nothing about the military; they have seen more, done more and experienced more than your imagination can conjure. Some of them have lived through stuff your worst nightmare would cringe from.

*SME = Subject matter expert. Because I wouldn't want to be accused of using unknown military terminology.

Your words from another thread:


> My reasons for joining. I'm very patriotic and want to serve my country first and foremost. I think it would be exciting and adventurous and a great leadership opportunity. I'm attracted to the camaraderie. I simply think I would enjoy it and be good at it.


 
Wow. Again.

You worked hard to string together that para. A lot of thought and eloquence crammed into those 46 words.

Well, guess what? Joining the military isn't fun most of the time, and it isn't adventurous or enjoyable. But when you're cold, hungry, wet and haven't slept for more than a few hours at a time in a month, (did I mention, really hungry?), I'm sure those words will warm you and keep the hunger at bay.

But what do I know, hmmm? I was just a pogue, a female, and not on the front lines or in special operations. Wrong - I've been hungry, cold, and tired, all while still performing my job. Because ALL jobs in the military, esp the Army or Marines involve cold, wet, nasty, miserable environments. And guess what? That's where you'll end up too - back in support, maybe clerical, because you've got a bit of intelligence, at least enough to get a degree, although nowadays, you'll probably end up as a bullet magnet. Know why you'll end up there? You don't have the strength of character to do what these gents did. You'll wash out. You can bluster and try to bullshit, but I've known this caliber of men for longer than you've been alive and they don't bluster, bullshit, or ignore/disrespect advice given to them.

If you were serious about your patriotism and your desire to join the military, you'd have signed on the dotted line long before today. You'd have done your research, made up your own mind without whining and headed straight for that 25m target - Basic Training. Which by the way, is where I spent my 19th birthday. One of the best and most memorable birthdays of my life.

There's a lot of leadership opportunity in Basic Training. I encourage you when you get there - if you've got the guts to sign - to show your drill's all your leadership abilities. And if you manage to make it to a unit, again, try there too. Oh, wait, you want to be an officer, well, I'm sure in OCS there are plenty of leadership opportunities, as well as that first duty assignment as a cherry lieutenant.

Small hint - since I'm being nice tonight - the greatest trait of some of the best leaders is the ability to follow. Think you got it in you to follow?

Here's some more advice you will undoubtedly ignore - read more and post less. Have some respect for those who have served - they are part of a long lineage of brothers in combat who gave you the freedom to leisurely make your way through college. 

LL


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## lockNload (Mar 6, 2007)

LibraryLady, I don't understand you're condescending attitude and it's very annoying. Most people graduate from college in 4 1/2 to 5 years, but it actually took me only 3 1/2 since you decided to make an issue of it. I don't know what advice I have been given and ignored? Most of what I have received is make up your mind and join. Don't tell me that I know nothing about the military, yes I know what SME meant. I know more than most civilians do about the military. Yeah you're right, most people in spec ops aren't thrill seekers wanting to do HSLD stuff. That isn't my primary motivation, but being drawn to exciting training is common. I'm sure many guys stay in the military because they don't enjoy it either. It's not like I'm thinking it will be easy and comfortable. Damn. I love how you think you can judge my character based off of what little I said here. You are making this very personal and I'm offended by that. Don't you question my patriotism. As I stated earlier, I have almost signed the dotted line a few time since 9/11 but decided to finish college first. In hindsight I may have done things differently but there's nothing wrong with me finishing school with the intention of becoming an officer.


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## digrar (Mar 6, 2007)

Basically you have come in here asking which SOF you should join, making it sound like getting into one or the other is a fait accompli. It makes you sound like an arsehole, hence the reaction you have got.

 If you want to use this place as a resource it's up to you to change our opinion of you, rebuttals like the one above are not going to help your cause.

Remember you're trying to join us, we aren't trying to recruit you.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Mar 6, 2007)

digrar said:


> Basically you have come in here asking which SOF you should join, making it sound like getting into one or the other is a fait accompli. It makes you sound like an arsehole, hence the reaction you have got.
> 
> If you want to use this place as a resource it's up to you to change our opinion of you, rebuttals like the one above are not going to help your cause.
> 
> Remember you're trying to join us, we aren't trying to recruit you.


 
After reading this entire thread I think digrar summed up my thoughts perfectly.

LockNload do you honestly believe that anyone who attempts any form of SOF selection, plans on quitting? Mike Tyson once said "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth." You seem to be worrying too much about this, and honestly you are planning way too far ahead for something that has the possibility of going either way.


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## medicchick (Mar 6, 2007)

Damn, you go round and round more than my washer.  Hint one, don't disrespect those who HAVE served, like LL.  You come here asking for answers, and turn into a cocky, whiny little shit.  You have been given answers, but you don't listen.  

Make a decision, sack up, and sign.  Quit talking about it and DO it.


Shit, now you're pissing off Ranger wives.


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## AWP (Mar 6, 2007)

As a support guy I've worked with a fair number of Army units and types of people. All of them knew what they wanted to do. They did their research on the mission and went for it, they got a bug that said "Go down path X" and they went and did it. No waffling, no doubt, just 100% pure action until they achieved their goal. 

My personal thoughts are that if you are indecisive now, with only a few months before OCS or whatever you want starts, then you'll be indecisive later.

Make up your mind and follow that path to completion. Do or do not, there is no try.


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## Polar Bear (Mar 6, 2007)

Pick One only you can do that.
Closed


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