# Going to build my first AR soon!



## Blue (Jul 17, 2009)

So I was wondering what uppers and lowers I should be looking at, good companies and the like. I've been looking at spikes tactical uppers but have no idea what to look for in a lower. So if someone could help me out it would be much appreciated!


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## koz (Jul 17, 2009)

For quality lowers - Top dollar ones: Larue, Noveske, POF, 
Very Good quality not overpriced : CMMG, LMT, Bravo Co (Sold thru Denny's Guns), Stag.  There are some others but these are good choices.  

I've heard lots of complaints about Bushmaster & RRA lowers.  I have a Sun Devil and not extremely happy with it... I'd buy the good ones I mentioned above first.  

Spikes makes good things AFAIK and they will stand behind their product.  Colt makes very good parts/guns BUT they are not cheap and you'll find some problems with the trigger pin size differences.  IMO - stay with the ones I first listed.  

Uppers: Again Noveske, Larue and I'll add VLTOR to the mix are top quality.  
Bravo co makes an excellent receiver (I'd probably go with them).   Also before you buy an upper receiver, you need to know what type of barrel extension you'll be getting - eg - M4 cuts or not.  It's not good to have and M4 upper receiver and not have an M4 barrel extension.  I'll post a picture at somepoint when I can find it.  

If you're looking for a complete upper assembly - Spikes is a good option.  There is another thread where we talk a lot about quality M4/Ar15 components.


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## Blue (Jul 17, 2009)

koz said:


> For quality lowers - Top dollar ones: Larue, Noveske, POF,
> Very Good quality not overpriced : CMMG, LMT, Bravo Co (Sold thru Denny's Guns), Stag.  There are some others but these are good choices.
> 
> I've heard lots of complaints about Bushmaster & RRA lowers.  I have a Sun Devil and not extremely happy with it... I'd buy the good ones I mentioned above first.
> ...



Alright I'll look into these parts, thanks for the Info!


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## koz (Jul 17, 2009)

https://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19507


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## P. Beck (Jul 17, 2009)

First AR?

Case of beer!


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## Blue (Jul 17, 2009)

P. Beck said:


> First AR?
> 
> Case of beer!



Case of beer? well if you buy it


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## arizonaguide (Jul 17, 2009)

I have found Moosehead to be excellent AR assembly beer. :cool:
Also works to take the "edge" off when you can't find that ONE freakin part because everybody is Outta Stock.


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## HOLLiS (Jul 17, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> I have found Moosehead to be excellent AR assembly beer. :cool:
> Also works to take the "edge" off when you can't find that ONE freakin part because everybody is Outta Stock.



And get the bottle holder for your AR, you would be GTG, a Case ammo, a Case of Moosehead.


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## CBTech (Jul 19, 2009)

You can't go wrong with an LMT lower. Alot of the lowers you see out there for sale, from companies that are big names use LMT. Lewis Machine and Tool produces (guesing) 60% of the lowers out there. I know my Smith & Wesson M&P15 uses LMT parts and Stag is owned by ol' man Lewis' son. The Stag Arms factory is right across the street from LMT and uses thier parts. 
Unless you are getting a boutique lower (CNC forged from un-obtanium), there is a big chance you will get an LMT so when you are out there shopping as who makes it because it is not always from the co. with the stamp on the side. Might as well cut out the middle man.


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## 8'Duece (Jul 20, 2009)

Since I've got a new RRA LAR 15 lower I believe this build is going to be an Mk18 CQBR clone, as close as I can get. 

RRA lower
LMT 10.5" CQBR upper
Knights RIS rail system
LMT SOPMOD stock
Knights foregrip
Knights rail covers
Aimpoint CompM3
Wilcox Aimpoint mount
LMT A2 rear BUIS
Tango Down Battle Grip
H/H2 Buffer depending on the load. 
Surefire Scout Light 
BCM BCG/Auto


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## Blue (Jul 20, 2009)

Quick question, where the hell do I find parts! Everyone is sold out of everything apparently


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## CBTech (Jul 20, 2009)

Blue said:


> Quick question, where the hell do I find parts! Everyone is sold out of everything apparently



Welcome to our world, young Skywalker.


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## 8'Duece (Jul 20, 2009)

If I where you I'd go to Gunbroker.com and find a complete lower.  There's usually plenty of RRA LAR 15's available depending on how much you want pay for them.  

I just got one for $320 which is only $15 more than they ask for them on the RRA site. 

What's hard to get are the uppers and bolt carrier groups and lower parts kits.  Most are speeding up the manufacturing and delivery to online sites but the political climate makes it hard to grab them once they appear in "*IN STOCK* status on the sites. 

I just recieved a 10.5" LMT CQBR upper from Bravacompanyusa.com this week.  They still have some in stock and in various lengths of barrel.  Some with SS and some with 4150 also with rail systems already installed. 

30 round mags are also in high demand, especially Mag Pul PMAG's.  You can put your self on the email list with Bravo Company so you'll get an email notice when their mags are back in stock.  I just recieved 6 more PMAGs and two orders of the Ranger baseplates.  Pick and choose which mags you want carefully. 

www.bravocompanyusa.com


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## koz (Jul 21, 2009)

LMT lower complete

I don't know anything about this dealer but it's a good price for a LMT lower.

If you are interested in creating a SPR type AR - Compass Lake will turn you a barrel pretty quickly and they use pretty high quality stuff (Douglas and Krieger) They'll be gone until Aug 17th for Camp Perry but their prices, quality and service are good... 

Brownell's makes some good 30rd mags with the Magpul followers for pretty cheap and almost always in stock. PM me if you don't know how to get the price break...

82nd - I'm jealous of your new upper.... Let's see some pics


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## Blue (Jul 21, 2009)

koz said:


> LMT lower complete
> 
> I don't know anything about this dealer but it's a good price for a LMT lower.
> 
> ...



PM sent and whats a SPR type AR? I'm new at all this so I don't recognize a lot of the acronyms lol.


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## 8'Duece (Jul 21, 2009)

koz said:


> LMT lower complete
> 
> I don't know anything about this dealer but it's a good price for a LMT lower.
> 
> ...



The LMT 10.5" CQBR upper comes without handguards and without the BCG and charger. 

I'm going to either purchase the Knights RIS or RAS depending on how much I really wanna get into removing the FSB or not for the installation. 

$485 at Bravo Company. 

I need a Mil-Spec extension and the SOPMOD stock.  Although I have two other SOPMOD's I want a stock for every rifle. 

I'll post pics once the entire rifle is complete with rear sight, Wilcox mount, Scout light and Knights foregrip etc.


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## koz (Jul 21, 2009)

Blue said:


> PM sent and whats a SPR type AR? I'm new at all this so I don't recognize a lot of the acronyms lol.



An SPR is a Special Purpose Rifle - Google the Mk12 rifle.  It's usually a pretty accurate on an 18" barrel - different models have different rail systems.  It was "developed" by Crane naval weapons support center.

 However now that I think about it, they (Compass Lake) will make you a 16" (or other length) barrel in the twist that you choose...


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## Blue (Jul 21, 2009)

koz said:


> An SPR is a Special Purpose Rifle - Google the Mk12 rifle.  It's usually a pretty accurate on an 18" barrel - different models have different rail systems.  It was "developed" by Crane naval weapons support center.
> 
> However now that I think about it, they (Compass Lake) will make you a 16" (or other length) barrel in the twist that you choose...



ah I figured that's what it meant. Ok I'll look into compass lake, but I'm kind of confused about the whole twist thing. Whats the difference between different barrel twists?


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## 8'Duece (Jul 21, 2009)

Blue said:


> ah I figured that's what it meant. Ok I'll look into compass lake, but I'm kind of confused about the whole twist thing. Whats the difference between different barrel twists?



Somebody more versed than me wanna tackle this question ??


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## arizonaguide (Jul 22, 2009)

To my understanding...the 1:7 twist is used to stabilize the heavier (like 77gr.) bullets.
But can be detrimental to the lighter bullets (breaks them apart). So, unless you are shooting nothing but the heavier bullets, go with a 1:9 twist if you're looking for max. ammo versatility.

That is my understanding, at least. :cool:

JAB is the man to really outline/describe this correctly.


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## koz (Jul 22, 2009)

A lot of the twist rate thing is for accuracy.. If you shoot a 55gr bullet in a 1:7", it's not going to blow the barrel up - or at least the times I have done so... But it will keyhole the bullet (turn it sideways) and the jacket may deform or separate.
1:7" will stabilize the 62gr (green tip) and heavier bullets.  The 1:9" is probably the best for the 55gr bullets.
My favorite is the 1:8" which will stabilize up to an 80gr bullet and doesn't do to badly with the 55gr bullets..  
The current issue M4 has a 1:7 twist.  Many of the 10.5-12" barrels also have this twist or 1:8" twist.  Remember barrel length comes into the equation as you talk twists..  If you have a 24" barrel in 1:9 - it will do well with a 70 gr bullet, but not if your barrel is 14.5"  There are some good web sites out there that talk of twist to bullet wt but most of those are competition shooters that will have a longer barrel.  

Some competition shooters are going down to a 1:6.5" twist for bullets heavier than 85gr (FYI - you can't use those loads in a magazine - their too long.) People who shoot varmint loads (40-55gr) will go to a 1:10" twist or even a 1:14" twist for 40gr and less....

So what do you want?  If you can, get the 1:8" twist.  If you're going to be plinking or HD, the 1:9" will be ok.  To make this easier - what are you looking to do with your AR build?  (HD, SHTF, plinking, I want one just cause, competition...)


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## Blue (Jul 22, 2009)

koz said:


> A lot of the twist rate thing is for accuracy.. If you shoot a 55gr bullet in a 1:7", it's not going to blow the barrel up - or at least the times I have done so... But it will keyhole the bullet (turn it sideways) and the jacket may deform or separate.
> 1:7" will stabilize the 62gr (green tip) and heavier bullets.  The 1:9" is probably the best for the 55gr bullets.
> My favorite is the 1:8" which will stabilize up to an 80gr bullet and doesn't do to badly with the 55gr bullets..
> The current issue M4 has a 1:7 twist.  Many of the 10.5-12" barrels also have this twist or 1:8" twist.  Remember barrel length comes into the equation as you talk twists..  If you have a 24" barrel in 1:9 - it will do well with a 70 gr bullet, but not if your barrel is 14.5"  There are some good web sites out there that talk of twist to bullet wt but most of those are competition shooters that will have a longer barrel.
> ...



Well honestly I just want one to get familiar with them before I enter the service, for plinking and these tac shooting courses I want to take.


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## koz (Jul 22, 2009)

Blue said:


> Well honestly I just want one to get familiar with them before I enter the service, for plinking and these tac shooting courses I want to take.



First- regardless of your shooting experience familiar or seasoned competitive shooter - ACT like you know nothing and let the military teach you everything. Nothing will get instructors (esp Drill Sgt/ or DI's) on your ass faster than letting them know you already know something (or think you know something).  That's just to save you some grief.  :cool:

Probably the 1:9  14.5" (with pinned flash suppressor) or 16"  will do you just fine.  If you have the funds 1:8 still is my favorite choice...   

I will also say this about guns/optics/etc.... Buy quality once instead of junk a couple times and then back to quality.


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## Blue (Jul 22, 2009)

koz said:


> First- regardless of your shooting experience familiar or seasoned competitive shooter - ACT like you know nothing and let the military teach you everything. Nothing will get instructors (esp Drill Sgt/ or DI's) on your ass faster than letting them know you already know something (or think you know something).  That's just to save you some grief.  :cool:
> 
> Probably the 1:9  14.5" (with pinned flash suppressor) or 16"  will do you just fine.  If you have the funds 1:8 still is my favorite choice...
> 
> I will also say this about guns/optics/etc.... Buy quality once instead of junk a couple times and then back to quality.



Alright thanks for the info about the Drill Sgts haha. I'm looking at a spikes tactical upper which is a 1:7" and a 16" barrel and I think I'm going to with that.


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## 8'Duece (Jul 23, 2009)

Here she is.


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## HOLLiS (Jul 23, 2009)

^^^ Looks good.   In a complex sort of way.  


Sgt to the Privates, we adopted the AT family because it was much lighter thand the 9 1/2 pound battle issued before that.


Private1 to Private2, "My M4 weights 15 pounds"

Private2, "Where is the rest of that mounts to the rails?"

Private1, "I am trying to keep it light, like the Sgt says, don't want no heavy battle rifle."

SGT to the Privates, "Now on the lower rail, clip the M845-73 Mod 3 cast iron skillet."


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## 8'Duece (Jul 23, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> ^^^ Looks good.   In a complex sort of way.
> 
> 
> Sgt to the Privates, we adopted the AT family because it was much lighter thand the 9 1/2 pound battle issued before that.
> ...



LMAO !!!!




Actually with all that shit on it it's still lighter than an M14.


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## HOLLiS (Jul 23, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> LMAO !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Are you sure,  looks like the beginning of a crew served weapon. 


If by chance you need to have it stored, I can do that for you.   

IN it's final configuration:

Military model:








Civilian model and one that is issued to those who jump of their free will and accord from perfectly good airplanes once they have mastered the M2x4:


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## 8'Duece (Jul 23, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> Are you sure,  looks like the beginning of a crew served weapon.
> 
> 
> If by chance you need to have it stored, I can do that for you.
> ...




WTF is that shit all over that weapon ?? :doh:

Somebody got way carried away.

And, NO you can't store it for me. LOL


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## HOLLiS (Jul 23, 2009)

^^ I think that was from a show, where they hung everything on the rifle:


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## 8'Duece (Jul 23, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> ^^ I think that was from a show, where they hung everything on the rifle:




I think the title of that poster is *Like Barbies for men*


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## 8'Duece (Jul 23, 2009)

Couldn't load a pic becaused I used it in another thread ???  How do I get that picture to load again in another thread ????


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## HOLLiS (Jul 23, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> Couldn't load a pic becaused I used it in another thread ???  How do I get that picture to load again in another thread ????



use photobucket, and C & P the img file.


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## CBTech (Jul 27, 2009)

Blue said:


> Well honestly I just want one to get familiar with them before I enter the service, for plinking and these tac shooting courses I want to take.



There is nothing wrong with that. Just keep it all a secret when you go in. 

If you are looking at getting familiar with the M4/ AR family might I suggest getting a .22 upper to go on your AR? It is alot cheaper to shoot. 
I have one on my list just so I can go out and have fun on the cheap. My 5.56 supply is dwindelling to a few hundred rounds and it hurts to think about resupply.

To piggy back KOZ, can you imagine a PADI diver going to BUD/s and telling Instructor X that you got this?


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## perryguy23 (Aug 17, 2009)

CBTech said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. Just keep it all a secret when you go in.
> 
> If you are looking at getting familiar with the M4/ AR family might I suggest getting a .22 upper to go on your AR? It is alot cheaper to shoot.
> I have one on my list just so I can go out and have fun on the cheap. My 5.56 supply is dwindelling to a few hundred rounds and it hurts to think about resupply.
> ...



CMMG makes a very nice drop-in 22LR conversion for the AR for around $200 i want to say? you just take out the bolt carrier group, throw in the CMMG one, and you're ready to rock. It uses special magazines - comes with either 2 or 1, and new ones are like $30 =(

But, if you're just plinking or doing the run/gun kind of thing with you're friends, it beats the hell out of sitting on your couch, wishing you could afford (or even find) 5.56.

review: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5UbgB_tfE[/ame] 

conversion kit: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1807035&cat=81& 
*It's the second item on that page.


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## arizonaguide (Aug 19, 2009)

Good point Bro, and I also advise against anyone shooting the cheap "Wolf" shit (.223) in ANY AR platform, even if that's ALL you can find. Especially in the heat of a hot summer day. :cool:


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## Blue (Aug 19, 2009)

Yeah, I've been thinking about buying the .22 upper from Spike's actually.


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## x SF med (Aug 19, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> Since I've got a new RRA LAR 15 lower I believe this build is going to be an Mk18 CQBR clone, as close as I can get.
> 
> RRA lower
> LMT 10.5" CQBR upper
> ...


 
Isn't that my rifle?  I know you said you were sending me a rifle.  You forgot the 2500 rounds of match ammo and the magazines though.


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## perryguy23 (Aug 20, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Good point Bro, and I also advise against anyone shooting the cheap "Wolf" shit (.223) in ANY AR platform, even if that's ALL you can find. Especially in the heat of a hot summer day. :cool:



Yeah, that's really good advise. On the subject of CMMG, the warranty their ARs come with are null and void if you use Wolf ammo. It's that bad...


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