# Indoctrination in Higher Education



## AWP (Apr 29, 2022)

There's a thread where I'd move posts from, but I no has red tag.

Americans Will Not Fight for America

The subject says it all, let's get it on.


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## Stretcher Jockey (Apr 29, 2022)

I would like to know what everyone is considering as "indoctrination". Is it only focused towards things like gender vs sex, wage gaps, critical race theory,  and other "liberal" talking points? Or are we also considering things like religion in school, evolution vs creation theory, and other "conservative" talking points? Understanding what crosses the line from instruction in multiple subject areas into indoctrination is a constantly moving goalpost. At least that is my experience every time I've had this discussion.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 29, 2022)

Providing resources on topics is not the same as indoctrination. The point of education should be to provide students with diverse viewpoints and have them form their own opinions. That goes for most topics of serious academic debate. Showing or giving students viewpoints is not indoctrination. No one forced students to believe or even agree with anything. 

Also this weird critical race, gender shit and “communism”is taught to small numbers of people. Like 10’s of people in universities with 10’s of thousands of students. These provocative speakers that rile up protests are attended by 1-300 people, not rally’s of thousands. Everything needs to be thought of in terms of populations. The overall populations of college kids is enormous, the population exposed to the crazy shit is minuscule. 

I left school having a different view on LGBTQIA’s than I did going in, not because of indoctrination, but because I was exposed to people who identified that way, and I found that they were just people living their lives and I don’t really care who they decide to fuck. If they feel the need to talk about it, I realized I don’t really care either. Sex is part of life, and I’ve heard dudes in the army say way worse shit than anything I ever heard in college. 

I feel like I’ve seen way more weird recruitment and proselytizing by things like Campus Crusade and such than by any fringe indoctrination group, but I live in the south.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 30, 2022)

It's happening en masse.  But it's all over society.  Liberals have a stranglehold of every social institution.  But this whole trannies in girls sports thing, male dude dressing like a girl raping two girls in high school and it getting covered up may start to swing things at the local level.  I think a part of America is waking up, but conservatives are also getting smarter and going to evidence based arguments.  Not sure they'll ever get control of social institutions, we seem too far gone right now.

I went to VMI, was a gun grabbing liberal when I went in, and came out?  Well, to the left of @AWP but he's just left of Ghengis Khan.  Also like every professor I had was liberal, they even talked about it in class.  But none of them were raging weirdos that I saw on civilian campuses. That stuff used to be contained to the Wheaton and Oberlins...and now it's happening at flagship universities. 

When I was in law school at 31, what I was shocked by was how immature most of the future attorneys were.  How they lacked real world experience.


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## Bypass (Apr 30, 2022)

AWP said:


> There's a thread where I'd move posts from, but I no has red tag.
> 
> Americans Will Not Fight for America
> 
> The subject says it all, let's get it on.


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## Bypass (Apr 30, 2022)

If you're gonna teach transgenderism to kindergarteners, then I suggest you balance it with the New Testament. 

That's it I'm not going down this rabbit hole. 

Then again maybe I should just tell you all what kind of right-wing conservative Christian I am and be done with it.


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## Bypass (Apr 30, 2022)

With Biden leading the show and transgender 1st graders who won't grow up loving America what does it matter we're all fucked anyways.

Nuke em if you got em. Let's get this party started.

Time for more Jim Beam. BRB


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## Bypass (Apr 30, 2022)

Bypass said:


> With Biden leading the show and transgender 1st graders who won't grow up loving America what does it matter we're all fucked anyways.
> 
> Nuke em if you got em. Let's get this party started.
> 
> Time for more Jim Beam. BRB


Well, I mixed that one strong I think I just curled something when I drank that.

Cheers!!!


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## AWP (Apr 30, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well to the left of @AWP but he's just left of Ghengis Khan.


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## Dame (Apr 30, 2022)

Bypass said:


> If you're gonna teach transgenderism to kindergarteners, then I suggest you balance it with the New Testament.
> 
> That's it I'm not going down this rabbit hole.
> 
> Then again maybe I should just tell you all what kind of right-wing conservative Christian I am and be done with it.


We did have a situation here in Nevada where some grade school picked a history book that re-wrote the 2nd amendment. I forget what the exact wording was but it stated that we need an army so we will allow you to have a gun if you are part of that.

Something like the high school textbook in Texas that stated, “The people have a right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.”

Parents here went berserk. It was definitely seen as indoctrination because it was inaccurate and taught as fact.

ETA: Common Core-approved Textbooks Rewrite Second Amendment - The New American


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## Stretcher Jockey (Apr 30, 2022)

This is an argument that devolves into anecdotes 100% of the time. It's such a nuanced topic depending on where you fall into the political spectrum that I highly doubt anyone is going to change their mind either way. If you feel that a specific school indoctrinates into the left, then go find yourself an echo chamber for the right. Its only indoctrination if it's the other side, right?


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## Bypass (Apr 30, 2022)

Dame said:


> We did have a situation here in Nevada where some grade school picked a history book that re-wrote the 2nd amendment. I forget what the exact wording was but it stated that we need an army so we will allow you to have a gun if you are part of that.
> 
> Something like the high school textbook in Texas that stated, “The people have a right to keep and bear arms in a state militia.”
> 
> ...


Yeah, it is rampant. Here in Alabama to my dismay they opened a transgender school.

Alabama To Open New LGBT Friendly Charter School ...​
*Estimated Reading Time:* 1 min
Alabama has announced they will be opening an LGBT friendly charter school called the Magic City Acceptance Academy. BIRMINGHAM, AL (WBRC) – A new charter school is in the works right now that would provide a welcoming environment for LGBTQ students and their allies. It would be called The Magic City Acceptance Academy.
Alabama To Open New LGBT Friendly Charter School | Education News...https://www.bing.com/search?q=trans...c=8-23&cvid=9f89bbd6bfb243b6b0e195e40f1a25a9#


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## Gunz (Apr 30, 2022)

Magic City.


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 30, 2022)

Pretty obvious some of you haven't stepped foot in an undergrad humanities or lower level pre requisite class in a while. Long story short, our college age youths are being demoralized from the second they enter college and have their heads filled with Marxist degeneracy. For the most part, they have no choice and are stuck taking these classes.

Our youth are demoralized. Not just in a Bezmenov sort of way, where you can't discern truth from fiction, but where young white males, young traditionalist women, and traditionalists, are being targeted as the scapegoats for societies past and present ills. I've literally seen a giant rainbow flag being flow higher than the American flag, black power and BLM signage posted BY the University, and all the other retarded Marxist trappings celebrated and advertised BY Universities.

These radicalized college youth then go on to public schools to groom kids in their degeneracy. Liberalism in higher ed is a disease and it's robbing our country of it's best and brightest, not including their future progeny. We're literally being destroyed from the inside out and some of you are willfully blind or running counter info for these freaks.

TLDR:




(San Fran Gay Mens Chorus singing about converting/grooming children.)


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## TLDR20 (May 1, 2022)

I often forget you can ignore people.



R.Caerbannog said:


> Pretty obvious some of you haven't stepped foot in an undergrad humanities or lower level pre requisite class in a while. Long story short, our college age youths are being demoralized from the second they enter college and have their heads filled with Marxist degeneracy. For the most part, they have no choice and are stuck taking these classes.
> 
> Our youth are demoralized. Not just in a Bezmenov sort of way, where you can't discern truth from fiction, but where young white males, young traditionalist women, and traditionalists, are being targeted as the scapegoats for societies past and present ills. I've literally seen a giant rainbow flag being flow higher than the American flag, black power and BLM signage posted BY the University, and all the other retarded Marxist trappings celebrated and advertised BY Universities.
> 
> ...



Your gay mens chorus video has nothing to do with indoctrination, other than to be a decent fucking human being. Glad to know you are spending your time browsing gay shit in San Francisco though.

Our youth have been through what in their lifetimes?

A 20 year war, a recession that put millions of their parents out of work, one of the most divisive elections and presidencies, and a pandemic. You think they are demoralized? Sure, they also see their friends marginalized for being gay, but they were raised to see that as being a “who cares” type of thing. In the truest libertarian sense, who does care? Religious people? Fuck off.

Schools don’t need to indoctrinate kids to some agenda. Hanging out with people different, is the best way to change someone. College exposes kids to different ideas, and they then decide what to think and feel based on them.


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## TLDR20 (May 1, 2022)

@R.Caerbannog when did you graduate from college, where, and in what major?

I’m just asking so I have some idea of what your actual understanding of current undergraduate education is. Seeing as how you clearly have a grasp on the indoctrination, but made it through with viewpoints that would make most conservatives squeamish, I just want to know the secret.


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## R.Caerbannog (May 1, 2022)

A picture is worth a thousand words and art imitates life.


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## SpitfireV (May 1, 2022)

@TLDR20 that's about all you'll get from him he can't back anything up when pressed.


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## AWP (May 1, 2022)

This thread is a Chapelle Show skit. If you want a serious discussion check out the comments on a random Tik Tok video.


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## R.Caerbannog (May 2, 2022)

Good old demoralization and 5th gen warfare. Let's address some things.



TLDR20 said:


> @R.Caerbannog when did you graduate from college, where, and in what major?
> 
> I’m just asking so I have some idea of what your actual understanding of current undergraduate education is. Seeing as how you clearly have a grasp on the indoctrination, but made it through with viewpoints that would make most conservatives squeamish, I just want to know the secret.


Why would Pepperidge Farms share any private information with someone who tried doxxing a member here?



SpitfireV said:


> @TLDR20 that's about all you'll get from him he can't back anything up when pressed.


Is New Zealand still in Five Eyes? Given some of your past pro China posts and shared history between us why do you think I generally ignore you?



AWP said:


> This thread is a Chapelle Show skit. If you want a serious discussion check out the comments on a random Tik Tok video.


How about we ask the minister of public misinformation what her opinion is?







If this thread is a skit, then we are all living in Clown World. Don't take my word for it, look for yourself. Pay attention to the last 10 seconds of this 'educators' lecture. None of this just appeared out of the aether, this was learned in higher ed and and is spreading to the lower tiers of education.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520920906658291712


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## Gunz (May 2, 2022)

If you have half a brain--nobody, no matter how radical--is going to change your views. In other words, lemmings are gonna lemming.


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## Devildoc (May 2, 2022)

I think it's naïve to think there has not been a cultural shift on campuses and in education.  I think the question is not "is there?" but more "how pervasive?"  Certainly social media and some conservative sites have shown these things to be real.

That said: some departments are more likely (sociology) than others (engineering) to have faculty that are hard left and who feel compelled by their subject matter to preach their gospel.  I think the universities have some culpability in endorsing (or not) specific groups or speakers on campus.  Some schools are notorious (UNC-CH*, Berkeley come to mind, but there are others).

I got my BSN in 2003, it wasn't an issue in that program.  I did take a butt-load of sociology courses (enough to minor, actually) because they suggested I pad my GPA prior to applying to the school of nursing.  Yeah, those classes were pretty off the charts...I was Mr. Evil Whitey trying to keep name-your-favorite-historically-oppressed-group-here.  But I was also an adult learner so I kept my head down and my mouth shut and did what I needed to do.

My first degree was poli sci with minor in African area studies (1991), and yeah, there were some student groups that were nutty (left and right), for the most part indoctrination just was not a thing.  I had some lefty loon professors in poli sci and a few hard-core on the right, but they never used it as a bully pulpit in the classroom.  Interestingly, two faculty were married; he was a closet commie, she was a staunch conservative.  

I agree with @TLDR20 , the goal of education is not only to teach material but also to teach multiple perspectives of material and help one develop critical thinking.  So I am not sure that just by having some of this on campus is 'indoctrination'.  I would also say parents have a role: teach your kids values and ethics early on, have a presence, they may be less likely to turn into whatever monster while in college.

*UNC-CH had the issue last year where they denied tenure to Nicole Hannah-Jones, the writer of The 1619 Project.  Most of the school and a lot of alumni made it a race issue; the reality was, she did not have a terminal degree (not to mention that her 1619 Project was full of inaccuracies).  The school was also on the forefront of removing statues of southern leaders of the antebellum and civil war period.


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## TLDR20 (May 2, 2022)

Yeah my point is that the craziness that you read about on infowars or whatever is so minuscule. Even in my sociology class, the readings weren’t crazy, and you could form whatever opinion you wanted based on them. I pulled an A pretty much disagreeing with everything. 

I got into a full blown argument about how our maternal death statistics that make America look like garbage are skewed because we have a fatter, older  more unhealthy population having babies than say anywhere in Africa..

Indoctrination would be “believe this or else”. This isn’t what is happening. Even in the age of tenure, professors can and do get in trouble, grades are subject to review boards, and teachers are removed from teaching positions.


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## Grunt (May 2, 2022)

People simply need to start doing their thinking for themselves and then we wouldn't need to have discussions like these. Nothing gets into my mind that I don't want or intentionally let in. I control my mind-space...not any teacher or professor or anyone else for that matter. People need to exercise their critical thinking skills - if they have them....


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## Devildoc (May 2, 2022)

Grunt said:


> People simply need to start doing their thinking for themselves and then we wouldn't need to have discussions like these. Nothing gets into my mind that I don't want or intentionally let in. I control my mind-space...not any teacher or professor or anyone else for that matter. People need to exercise their critical thinking skills - if they have them....



I think this is true, for most people.  There are a lot of vulnerable people in college.  Those are ones ripe to be indoctrinated/propagandized.  It didn't take a shrink to figure out who these people were, the one's who were "trying to find themselves."

To @TLDR20 point, I didn't have much issue disagreeing with a lot of the profs.  I would even go so far as say, if you could articulate your argument in a semi-coherent way, they'd actually respect you some and generally leave you alone.  Unlike him though, I had a couple sociology classes where the readings were so far left youd'a thunk they were satire.  I had one class I kept my mouth shut and eyes straight ahead, sociology of race in America.  The prof, and older man, was an unabashed student at the school of Malcolm X, and while he never called me out, he railed against whites every class.  Oh, I was the only white in that class, too.  Ironically when we'd do small group work, the others in the group would ask pretty intelligent, probing questions, and although they disagreed with me, they were always respectful (to a point).


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## Topkick (May 2, 2022)

Grunt said:


> People simply need to start doing their thinking for themselves and then we wouldn't need to have discussions like these. Nothing gets into my mind that I don't want or intentionally let in. I control my mind-space...not any teacher or professor or anyone else for that matter. People need to exercise their critical thinking skills - if they have them....


I finished my degree in 2013. In my experience, there was some attempt to indoctrinate young people and then to ostracize those who don't conform. I think its pretty naïve to deny this is happening anywhere based solely on an individual experience. There are what, nearly 4000 degree granting institutions in the US? However, I agree that nobody is going to change your core values unless you want them to and its up to the individual to stand fast. This is not to say that I didn't learn a little respect and gain a little more empathy for others from the experience.


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## Devildoc (May 2, 2022)

If you keep up with your friends from college it's interesting to see what career tracks they end up taking and whether or not any of them have changed.

One guy I want to college with was a hotel management major, and if zero is Karl Marx and 10 is Barry Goldwater, he would have been a three.  He's been on the Chicago Police department for 20 years, is up for lieutenants exam, and is now super conservative.  Another example, a gal I dated, voted Republican because that's what her parents did, and by the end of college she was active in the college Democrats.


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## Locksteady (May 2, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I’ll bite as well.
> 
> Have you been to college? In this decade, century, millennia?
> 
> ...


As aware as I am of how much MSM likes to amplify issues that don't affect the vast majority of Americans, I'll push back a little on some of this (as with your post, mine is also anecdotal, YMMV, etc. etc.).

Around your same timeframe, I went to a big public university and a smaller private one.  Understanding that neither represents all college campuses of their types, or even necessarily the majority, I can say for the public one that there did appear to be a level of formal social indoctrination starting from the ground level, and in particular with student leaders.

In this case, by student leaders I refer to resident assistants/advisors, known to most as 'RAs', who live in various parts of each dorm to keep the lawless hordes of wild underclassmen from burning down the building create a welcoming and supportive living environment for the student residents.

During RA training (because why not for free hots and a cot?), our working group leader began by asking everyone to introduce themselves in a particular way - namely, by announcing our pronouns along with our name.  I asked if it was a requirement or just an option for people who wanted others to be clear about their preferred pronouns, and he said no one was 'forced' to do anything, but that it was highly encouraged for everyone to participate so that gender minorities who did so to avoid being misgendered didn't feel singled out.  Also, it avoids everyone being misgendered, so why wouldn't you?

He also took scrupulous notes as we introduced ourselves and during our interactive exercises, as well as right after I asked that question.

Later in the training, we were given worksheets that had sections split off into different demographic sections.  Sex, race, age, gender identity, sexual orientation, spirituality/religion, economic class, veteran status, abled status, psychological identity (neurodiversity was coming into vogue), and a few other things.  Based on our answers, we were told to pick out the ones that were underrepresented in society, and thus more prone to being disadvantaged, and then were to discuss them in groups.

It was an interesting exercise that encouraged people to find things that they felt disadvantaged them while subtly discouraging people who ticked 'higher' boxes in the common oppression hierarchy from pointing out disadvantages that people in the typical 'oppressor' categories may experience - all for the sake of being sensitive to the issues of more widely accepted minority groups.

The whole experience was a shift from what I'd first experienced in school years before, and spelled out some of the logic behind the way that younger millennial and Gen Z students are being socialized.

I went through the training as an alternate in case for whatever reason one of the other selected RAs dropped (no dice), but I can say that underclassmen in a few of my classes did confirm that their RAs did do similar things, such as soft-mandate preferred pronouns during welcome week hall introductions, and for the same reasons above.  Also, be aware that at this school (and several other public universities), first-year students were required to live in the dorms, and so it was easy for me to see why this way of thinking was so pervasive and normalized.

This (and any other) way of thinking can and does carry out into every other sphere the person enters during and after school - including our military.



Devildoc said:


> I don't know if it was a different time or what, we just did not seem to have the same issues then that they have now. Maybe we did but because there wasn't social media and everything wasn't on a 24/7 news cycle it wasn't always put out there.


I think your speculation about the whys are mostly accurate for explaining both why the climate itself has changed and what is amplifying its effects, as I also noticed this lack of the same issues too, having first gone to school around the time when you went for your nursing degree.

I'll also add that it was illuminating to see how some then-very-fringe attitudes and ways of assessing the world became as relatively mainstream among the student body and faculty as they did when I returned to school a decade later.



Devildoc said:


> I know UNC Chapel Hill gets a bad rap locally, and it is very well deserved. But even Duke has come to the ideologically left culture, which is very very sad for me.


My understanding is that for a while now the faculty has been very left-leaning while, until maybe the last 8 or so years, the student body has had reasonably solid conservative representation, especially compared to most of the other colleges in the area. While he was in law school, a friend of mine (and Federalist Society member) who was feeling outnumbered, politically and ideologically, showed me some interesting statistics about the massive underrepresentation of conservative law professors in higher education (15% nationwide).

At the very least, stats like these can seen alarming for anyone prioritizing diversity of opinion and political thought in higher education, much less for conservatives attending these institutions who encounter more openly hostile students and professors (a bit dated but relevant to our conversation) who feel emboldened (and at times are even encouraged by their mentors) to react to differing views with violence.


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## Muppet (May 7, 2022)

I'll leave this here. Lmfao


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## Devildoc (May 11, 2022)

Apropos I am going to read _Closing of the American Mind_ (Allan Bloom, 1987), discusses this very thing.  I will report synopsis with appropriate literary critique.


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## Devildoc (May 12, 2022)

Not indoctrination, but example of the inmates running the asylum:

Free Speech Under Fire at Saint Vincent College | RealClearEducation


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## Marauder06 (May 12, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Not indoctrination, but example of the inmates running the asylum:
> 
> Free Speech Under Fire at Saint Vincent College | RealClearEducation


"invidious" discrimination... I had to look up what that word meant.


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## TLDR20 (May 12, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "invidious" discrimination... I had to look up what that word meant.



You aren’t the only one


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## AWP (May 12, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "invidious"



I think that's the graphics card in my PC.


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## R.Caerbannog (May 16, 2022)

Interesting tidbit to share. This was being taught in a school in Colorado.




These people are coming after your kids. Something similar to this was mentioned in the "All Politics thread" years ago, the example was a 'gender unicorn', and how radicalized thinking was being pushed into schools from higher up. Well, these people have been making headway.

If you're normal, like it or not, these people are at war with you. The minds of your children are their current objective and they will use a mix of social, political, and economic means, to brainwash your kids. 5th Gen warfare is being used on our young population to destroy our nations future potential. If you have kids prepare accordingly.

School where girl tricked into trans class says MEANT to be secret'


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