# How Not to Lead



## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2021)

Sex with subordinate, inappropriate relationships cost fired warfare center commander two stars

married two-star Air Force general, banging multiple married subordinates, it finally catches up to him:




> The two-star general who was fired from command of the Air Force Warfare Center in 2019 has retired as a colonel after an investigation found he had a sexual relationship with a female subordinate.
> 
> Maj. Gen. Peter Gersten also engaged in inappropriate personal relationships with two other women over a decade, the inspector general investigation found.


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## Jaknight (Jan 8, 2021)

TIL that adultery is against the UCMJ


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## Grunt (Jan 8, 2021)

I've never had any use for anyone that cheats on their spouse. He is a crumb....


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## Kraut783 (Jan 8, 2021)

Never dip your pen in the company ink.....


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## Dame (Jan 9, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> Never dip your pen in the company ink.....


Dude's got several colors going from the sound of it.


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## Cookie_ (Jan 9, 2021)

Oh no, the horror of having to retire as an O6 🙄

Can the articles like this stop acting like that's any form of "strong" punishment?


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## Gunz (Jan 9, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> Never dip your pen in the company ink.....



Never get your meat where you get your bread.


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## DA SWO (Jan 9, 2021)

He loved his troops.


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## Kaldak (Jan 9, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> He loved his troops.



A little too much.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 9, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Sex with subordinate, inappropriate relationships cost fired warfare center commander two stars
> 
> married two-star Air Force general, banging multiple married subordinates, it finally catches up to him:



My Wing-man's ex replaced me as the S-1 of our old Cav Squadron.  I probably have a post on here somewhere about it.  Anyway, he was at career course and then Ranger School.  There was a bunch of nights that Summer we were supposed to have Dinner, a few times with my partner that just cancelled on me or didn't show.  She was screwing a SFC in the same Cav Squadron on the nights she cancelled hanging out with "her friends". 

At the time she was married and that dude was married. Her office (my old one) was adjacent the SCO.  Talking to people in my old unit at the time, everyone knew they were together.  

Adultery is an almost never enforced article in the UCMJ and she could have been an easy roast.  I never got the whole story until he graduated Ranger School, chick tried to divorce him in Absentia!

Anyways, he's doing well now, on his second full command, he commanded our old troop for 45 days as a 1LTP.  So maybe that's his third command.  Married to a lovely civilian with a baby on the way.


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## BloodStripe (Jan 9, 2021)

Surprised they didn't let him retire with a star. Navy officers with more stars have done worse and were allowed to keep their rank with a guilty plea.


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## Kaldak (Jan 9, 2021)

In his retirement, does he still get the high three of 1 and 2 star rank? For retirement pay that is, or is it like he never held those ranks and pay?


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## Marauder06 (Jan 9, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> Surprised they didn't let him retire with a star. Navy officers with more stars have done worse and were allowed to keep their rank with a guilty plea.


So the way it works, I think, is that you get busted back to the last rank you held honorably.  So if there's no dirt on him from his O6 years, that's what he gets to keep.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 9, 2021)

Cookie_ said:


> Oh no, the horror of having to retire as an O6 🙄
> 
> Can the articles like this stop acting like that's any form of "strong" punishment?


That's one of the things I'm having problems with personally.  The guy is getting busted backwards to a rank I will never be able to achieve, doing some really shitty things I never would have done.


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## DA SWO (Jan 10, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> That's one of the things I'm having problems with personally.  The guy is getting busted backwards to a rank I will never be able to achieve, doing some really shitty things I never would have done.


Not saying it's right, or wrong just repeating what my resident JAG tells me.
Court martial for a 2-star is hard, because you have to get 6- 8,  3 or 4 stars to sit on a panel for however long it takes. You also have to find (if possible) 3 and 4 stars who haven't worked with him, or supervised him, in this case non-fighter commands (AFSOC, AMC, AFMC) would take the brunt of jury selection. That can have a negative impact on operations.
The Art 15 also saves him from a felony conviction, but I suspect his post-military career won't be awesome.
His pay drops from 195,996 to 151,656 that's an instantaneous drop of 44,340 if he stays on AD (not happening).  This translates (2021 pay scale) into a retirement check going from 146,997 to 113,742 or an annual loss of 33,255 annually (more if ya figure ex-wife payments), and I suspect this is viewed as ample punishment.  I have no sympathy for him losing that much money, and as a GO he's probably fired someone for dipping their wick into the company inkwell. Ironic, huh?  
He ruined two marriages (note he didn't marry the one woman who divorced her husband).
Had she maintained a professional attitude this would never have been reported.  The Sr Capt/Jr Major he was sleeping with can probably kiss her career goodby (self inflicted).


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## SpitfireV (Jan 10, 2021)

He was a three dimensional leader; he led from behind, in front, above and below.


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## J. (Jan 10, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Not saying it's right, or wrong just repeating what my resident JAG tells me.
> Court martial for a 2-star is hard, because you have to get 6- 8,  3 or 4 stars to sit on a panel for however long it takes. You also have to find (if possible) 3 and 4 stars who haven't worked with him, or supervised him, in this case non-fighter commands (AFSOC, AMC, AFMC) would take the brunt of jury selection. That can have a negative impact on operations.
> The Art 15 also saves him from a felony conviction, but I suspect his post-military career won't be awesome.
> His pay drops from 195,996 to 151,656 that's an instantaneous drop of 44,340 if he stays on AD (not happening).  This translates (2021 pay scale) into a retirement check going from 146,997 to 113,742 or an annual loss of 33,255 annually (more if ya figure ex-wife payments), and I suspect this is viewed as ample punishment.  I have no sympathy for him losing that much money, and as a GO he's probably fired someone for dipping their wick into the company inkwell. Ironic, huh?
> ...


I appreciate the breakdown a lot. I hope he works at home depot after this.


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## Cookie_ (Jan 10, 2021)

Maybe we need to reevaluate our court martial process if "it's too inconvenient to get a jury once you get to that rank" is a reason we see so few high ranking service members get off with making more in retirement pay than most make in their careers.

I have no sympathy that the retirement decrease is an E4's yearly pay, when he's still pulling over 100k in retirement.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 10, 2021)

Cookie_ said:


> Maybe we need to reevaluate our court martial process if "it's too inconvenient to get a jury once you get to that rank" is a reason we see so few high ranking service members get off with making more in retirement pay than most make in their careers.
> 
> I have no sympathy that the retirement decrease is an E4's yearly pay, when he's still pulling over 100k in retirement.


There are like twice as many FOGOs today than the great WWII.  So, it's not inconvenient, they're just lazy.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 10, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> There are like twice as many FOGOs today than the great WWII.  So, it's not inconvenient, they're just lazy.


Sounds like a case of to many Chiefs and not enough Indians in our defense sector.


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## DA SWO (Jan 10, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Sounds like a case of to many Chiefs and not enough Indians in our defense sector.


Generals do too much non-military shit.  State Department needs to take back some of the nation to nation shit GO's do.
Congress, is also to blame as a Col testifying isn't believable, but a BG testifying is totally accepted.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 10, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> Generals do too much non-military shit.  State Department needs to take back some of the nation to nation shit GO's do.
> Congress, is also to blame as a Col testifying isn't believable, but a BG testifying is totally accepted.


Fucking congress. We always used to joke about higher echelon officers doing good idea fairy BS, fucking us over in the process, to get their star. Now I have a better idea as to why, Congressional idiocy rolls downhill.


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## AWP (Jan 11, 2021)

I had a former squadron commander fired for banging his exec and filing false expense reports (dinners that were in the thousands of dollars).

He retained his rank and became the project officer for an airframe upgrade. As of this writing, he has maintainied his pay grade (O-5).

Oh, she made Major...as did her husband.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

Paul Broadwell, anyone?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 12, 2021)

In the words of Nate Diaz "I'm not surprised motherfuckers"...🤷‍♂️


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## Marauder06 (Jan 12, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Paul Broadwell, anyone?


I met her.  Twice, actually.


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## Devildoc (Jan 12, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Never get your meat where you get your bread.



Don't get your honey where you get your money?


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## Gunz (Jan 12, 2021)

.


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## AWP (Jan 12, 2021)

Given the thread title and the OP, I thought this was another case study...


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## Marauder06 (Jan 12, 2021)

AWP said:


> Given the thread title and the OP, I thought this was another case study...


I've got one going, but this time I'm going to write it out in its entirety before I start posting bits of it here.  Maybe this way it won't take a whole year to conclude.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I've got one going, but this time I'm going to write it out in its entirety before I start posting bits of it here.  Maybe this way it won't take a whole year to conclude.


Your readers right now.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 12, 2021)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Your readers right now.



more like


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> more like


We believe in you!


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## DA SWO (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I met her.  Twice, actually.


She hot?


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## Gunz (Jan 12, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> She hot?



No.




But when you're married to this....uh...maybe a little


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## Locksteady (Jan 12, 2021)

Gunz said:


> But when you're married to this....uh...maybe a little


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## Kraut783 (Jan 12, 2021)

C'mon...she is definitely deployment hot.


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## Devildoc (Jan 12, 2021)

Enough.  Hot enough.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 12, 2021)

I had a friend who said he'd cheat on his wife for a 7.  Guessing that's what Petraeus was dealing with, wife was also going through Breast Cancer treatments at the time...wait, he sounds like the Military version of John Edwards.


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## AWP (Jan 12, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> I had a friend who said he'd cheat on his wife for a 7.  Guessing that's what Petraeus was dealing with, wife was also going through Breast Cancer treatments at the time...wait, he sounds like the Military version of John Edwards.


I brought a room to absolute silence when I said I'd fuck their wives before I touched their bank accounts.

Cancer requires a different social contract altogether. That's next level shit. Some have been there. 9 years in Afghanistan means my marriage is a roll of the dice where cancer is concerned. The shit I inhaled...

As Ratt put it at the end of Point Break (the GOOD version, the proper version), nobody rides for free.

And so it goes.


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## Devildoc (Jan 12, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> I had a friend who said he'd cheat on his wife for a 7.  Guessing that's what Petraeus was dealing with, wife was also going through Breast Cancer treatments at the time...wait, he sounds like the Military version of John Edwards.



John Edwards. I can tell you stories about John Edwards 😉


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## Marauder06 (Jan 12, 2021)

DA SWO said:


> She hot?


I don't have an opinion about that.

I first met her when I was in grad school, at an event to which we were both invited.  She came across as very aloof to me and I didn't come away with a good impression.  Some years later I met her again at a different event and came away with a much more favorable impression.  She's smart, dresses well, and can hold a conversation.


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## Devildoc (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't have an opinion about that.
> 
> I first met her when I was in grad school, at an event to which we were both invited.  She came across as very aloof to me and I didn't come away with a good impression.  Some years later I met her again at a different event and came away with a much more favorable impression.  She's smart, dresses well, and can hold a conversation.



"I don't have an opinion about that".

Ladies and gentlemen, up for promotion to general may I present Mara....


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## Marauder06 (Jan 12, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> "I don't have an opinion about that".
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, up for promotion to general may I present Mara....


The only way I get promoted is if there is a national catastrophe and the senior field grade and flag ranks get decimated.  And I'm OK with that NOT happening.  ;)


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> The only way I get promoted is if there is a national catastrophe and the senior field grade and flag ranks get decimated.  And I'm OK with that NOT happening.  ;)


Dude... if the dead started rising from their graves, due to some weird covid mutation, I wouldn't be surprised. We've already strayed pretty far from normal. 

A promotion is well within the realm of possibility. Weirdly enough so are zombies. This decade is gonna be wild!


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## digrar (Jan 12, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I've got one going, but this time I'm going to write it out in its entirety before I start posting bits of it here.  Maybe this way it won't take a whole year to conclude.



I think we'd all welcome a case study wrapped up in as little as 12 months, compared to say, pick a random number, 55 months.


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## BloodStripe (Jan 13, 2021)

digrar said:


> I think we'd all welcome a case study wrapped up in as little as 12 months, compared to say, pick a random number, 55 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Et tu, Brute?


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## Gunz (Jan 13, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> C'mon...she is definitely deployment hot.




Would Lt Faith hit it if all the other men in the company had hit it first and he was the only one who didn't have a Ranger tab? What would his First Sergeant say? What would his men think of him if he refused to take sloppy 156ths? How would hitting it or not hitting it effect Lt. Faith's future career? If you were Lt Faith's commanding officer and found out he didn't hit it would you A. Berate him in front of the company formation? B. Promote him to Captain? C. Have him shot in front of a firing squad? Conversely, if you were same-said commanding officer and Lt Faith came to you with complaints of terminal dick rot and extreme chanker sores, would you charge him with damaging government property, or buy him a round of mezcal shooters in some seedy bar on Hay Street and tell him when his dick falls off he can reenlist as a woman.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 13, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Would Lt Faith hit it if all the other men in the company had hit it first and he was the only one who didn't have a Ranger tab? What would his First Sergeant say? What would his men think of him if he refused to take sloppy 156ths? How would hitting it or not hitting it effect Lt. Faith's future career? If you were Lt Faith's commanding officer and found out he didn't hit it would you A. Berate him in front of the company formation? B. Promote him to Captain? C. Have him shot in front of a firing squad? Conversely, if you were same-said commanding officer and Lt Faith came to you with complaints of terminal dick rot and extreme chanker sores, would you charge him with damaging government property, or buy him a round of mezcal shooters in some seedy bar on Hay Street and tell him when his dick falls off he can reenlist as a woman.


I think this is an excellent summation of every case study we've ever done on this site.


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## AWP (Jan 15, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Would Lt Faith hit it if all the other men in the company had hit it first and he was the only one who didn't have a Ranger tab? What would his First Sergeant say? What would his men think of him if he refused to take sloppy 156ths? How would hitting it or not hitting it effect Lt. Faith's future career? If you were Lt Faith's commanding officer and found out he didn't hit it would you A. Berate him in front of the company formation? B. Promote him to Captain? C. Have him shot in front of a firing squad? Conversely, if you were same-said commanding officer and Lt Faith came to you with complaints of terminal dick rot and extreme chanker sores, would you charge him with damaging government property, or buy him a round of mezcal shooters in some seedy bar on Hay Street and tell him when his dick falls off he can reenlist as a woman.



What in the chicken-fried, chocolate-dipped fuck did I just read?

I can't believe I read this forum while sober. That's one of the dumbest decisions of my life...and I've made some incredibly poor decisions.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 15, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Would Lt Faith hit it if all the other men in the company had hit it first and he was the only one who didn't have a Ranger tab? What would his First Sergeant say? What would his men think of him if he refused to take sloppy 156ths? How would hitting it or not hitting it effect Lt. Faith's future career? If you were Lt Faith's commanding officer and found out he didn't hit it would you A. Berate him in front of the company formation? B. Promote him to Captain? C. Have him shot in front of a firing squad? Conversely, if you were same-said commanding officer and Lt Faith came to you with complaints of terminal dick rot and extreme chanker sores, would you charge him with damaging government property, or buy him a round of mezcal shooters in some seedy bar on Hay Street and tell him when his dick falls off he can reenlist as a woman.


This is goddamn glorious!🤣🤣🤣


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## AWP (Jan 15, 2021)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> This is goddamn glorious!🤣🤣🤣



My brain shut down by the third sentence or so. That's when I started drinking. At 11AM.

Time for a nap. This forum will shave off 4-5 years of my life.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 15, 2021)

AWP said:


> My brain shut down by the third sentence or so. That's when I started drinking. At 11AM.
> 
> Time for a nap. This forum will shave off 4-5 years of my life.


except you didn't have to wait 2.5 years to read it to completion, unlike a case study :)


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## Devildoc (Jan 15, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> except you didn't have to wait 2.5 years to read it to completion, unlike a case study :)


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