# Changing Teams



## oneleggedhumper (Jul 17, 2020)

Please feel free to move this or lock if it has already been covered. I tried using the search function along with google and couldn't find anything.

Has anyone ever seen or had a personal experience with a team mate switching to a foreign SOF entity and gaining citizenship with them? Or really moving to any position within a foreign military.


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## Teufel (Jul 20, 2020)

Im sure the Afghan National Army is hiring.


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## ShadowSpear (Jul 20, 2020)

oneleggedhumper said:


> Please feel free to move this or lock if it has already been covered. I tried using the search function along with google and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen or had a personal experience with a team mate switching to a foreign SOF entity and gaining citizenship with them? Or really moving to any position within a foreign military.



Overseas recruits


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 20, 2020)

I remember some prior discussion here. After using our outstanding search function....

If joining the US military isn't your thing...

but be careful...

U.S. Officer jailed for joining French Foreign Legion

Or...

Israel accepting foreigners


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## oneleggedhumper (Jul 20, 2020)

Hmmm. Interesting view on things. I was thinking more of like serving out my commitment and a change of scenery type thing. Although i have nothing against the ANA, I do proper jumping jacks and I am sure that is a disqualifying factor.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 20, 2020)

oneleggedhumper said:


> Has anyone ever seen or had a personal experience with a team mate switching to a foreign SOF entity and gaining citizenship with them? Or really moving to any position within a foreign military.


Out of curiosity, what is your driving motivation to want this?


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## oneleggedhumper (Jul 20, 2020)

I'm a very go with the flow type of guy. I don't like being in one place for too long. So moving to Australia has been peaking my interest lately, as i have two years left on my contract. I still want to cross train into a SOF unit, but it has been a struggle since i broke my back on a jump a few years ago. It still is no where's close to where i need it to be. So if i give it a shot, great. If it doesn't work out, I've really been leaning towards using my GI bill to go to school in one of our allied countries, and or join the military.


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## Kaldak (Jul 20, 2020)

Why a foriegn country for the GI Bill? The US tends to be a very portable degree producing nation.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jul 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Why a foriegn country for the GI Bill? The US tends to be a very portable degree producing nation.


Just tossing my two cents here, but there are some things education wise that you can't really do in the USA. A good example is archaeology. Basically, in the early 90's some bleeding heart idiots got the feds to enact a law called the Native American Graves Protection Act (NAGPRA). Due to the law passing entire collections were destroyed, based on lies and emotional/political grandstanding, and any archaeology dealing with NA remains became verboten.

Long story short, abroad you can actually study certain things that aren't really available or are rare in the US.

Example Britain: Oh look, we found a cache of amazingly preserved Roman remains... may as well tag and bag them for posterity.

Example US: Neat! We found the preserved remains of a NA dude from 10000 years ago. Whelp... guess we better notify the tribes so they can burn and bury the remains. Screw posterity and science, we woke AF. (making broad generalizations)


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## AWP (Jul 20, 2020)

I sat next to the author of this book while on a flight from London. He was on his way to the States for a speaking/ promotion tour. At the time he was on staff at the university of London.
Amazon.com: Suicide in Nazi Germany (9780199532568): Goeschel, Christian: Books

Dr                      Christian Goeschel          | The University of Manchester

He told me that a number of Americans would earn their Masters in England because they could do them in a year and save a bunch of money and time. My semi-educated guess is that could also give you a leg up in some business and even gov't sectors to have an "out of the box" degree location. If you wanted to work for an international corporation, especially overseas, it would be a fantastic opportunity to study abroad and make connections.


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## oneleggedhumper (Jul 21, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Why a foriegn country for the GI Bill? The US tends to be a very portable degree producing nation.


Mainly looking for diversity. I should have my Bachelors within the year and still have my full GI Bill to use. As of now, I'm 21 with no kids, so I got some time to burn.


AWP said:


> I sat next to the author of this book while on a flight from London. He was on his way to the States for a speaking/ promotion tour. At the time he was on staff at the university of London.
> Amazon.com: Suicide in Nazi Germany (9780199532568): Goeschel, Christian: Books
> 
> Dr                      Christian Goeschel          | The University of Manchester
> ...


AWP you are pretty spot on. I'm earning my degree in International relations. Not sure what I'm going to do with it, but it gave me a broadened sense on how different parts of the world operate. I am really interested in different governments, religion, etc. So even if it's useless, I don't care i didn't pay for it.


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## Intel Nerd (Jul 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> He told me that a number of Americans would earn their Masters in England because they could do them in a year and save a bunch of money and time. My semi-educated guess is that could also give you a leg up in some business and even gov't sectors to have an "out of the box" degree location. If you wanted to work for an international corporation, especially overseas, it would be a fantastic opportunity to study abroad and make connections.



If I wasn't hitting the halfway mark next month, I looked into this. Kings College London offers a Masters in International Affairs w/ a concentration on "Espionage & Surveillance," which is basically their intel studies program. The peer group you're studying with will likely serve in key allied intelligence services.

Program is 1 year full time (2 years part time, online) and with relevant experience (decade of intelligence work) they'd forgive a lack of a bachelors. Plus a lot of these degrees are more portable in the states than in vice verse. I know a Sailor about to EAS out in the UK who plans to do this in London before applying to DIA.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jul 21, 2020)

Intel Nerd said:


> If I wasn't hitting the halfway mark next month, I looked into this. Kings College London offers a Masters in International Affairs w/ a concentration on "Espionage & Surveillance," which is basically their intel studies program. The peer group you're studying with will likely serve in key allied intelligence services.
> 
> Program is 1 year full time (2 years part time, online) and with relevant experience (decade of intelligence work) they'd forgive a lack of a bachelors. Plus a lot of these degrees are more portable in the states than in vice verse. I know a Sailor about to EAS out in the UK who plans to do this in London before applying to DIA.


Not to sound like a wet blanket, but yikes! Our collegiate education system is bad enough when it comes to indoctrination, I can only imagine what they can get away with somewhere else. I would have figured that would be a red flag when trying to get into our intel apparatus. 

I get going into the private sector with a foreign degree, but going straight into the intel sector seems kinda wonky.


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## digrar (Jul 22, 2020)

ShadowSpear said:


> Overseas recruits



Australia will only be interested in what you're currently doing, the ADF will have no interest in taking you on to do something else. We are looking for senior experienced types to fill gaps. Time frame would be 18-24 months to get through the process. They're generally looking for your E6 and senior O2 on the verge of 03 types.

Once you were here, I would imagine there would be some style of Return Of Service Obligation, to pay back the move. That might not preclude you attempting selection, SASR regularly takes tri service candidates, but the RAAF might be a bit shitty about not getting their moneys worth and try pointing you at 4 Squadron, B Flight Combat Controllers, they do the Commando selection and reo cycle and work with SOCOMD.

Our SOF is reasonably limited, SASR, 2 Commando, Special Operations Engineer Regiment, the two Sig squadrons that support SASR and 2 Commando, 4 Squadron RAAF, away from SOCOMD there is the RAN Clearance Divers, and in the Reserves, 1 Commando and the Sig squadron that supports them. That's about it.
 Generally unless you're beret qualified, you're in and out on the posting cycles, so the only way to stay in is to complete selection and reo, not much in the way for an enabler to hang around.


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## digrar (Jul 22, 2020)

Just checked your profile, at 4 years in, I'd be surprised if the ADF has anything for you on a lateral transfer. There are 3 or 4  jobs they're chasing JNCO level experience. 

Immigrating here would take an age. I think it's about 6 years now to go through the permanent resident to Citizenship stream, and you need Citizenship to enlist. They do say residency on the site, but you've got a snowballs hope in hell of getting in without Citizenship. 

Overseas applicants


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## oneleggedhumper (Jul 22, 2020)

digrar said:


> Just checked your profile, at 4 years in, I'd be surprised if the ADF has anything for you on a lateral transfer. There are 3 or 4  jobs they're chasing JNCO level experience.
> 
> Immigrating here would take an age. I think it's about 6 years now to go through the permanent resident to Citizenship stream, and you need Citizenship to enlist. They do say residency on the site, but you've got a snowballs hope in hell of getting in without Citizenship.
> 
> Overseas applicants


Good info! I was never hopeful or dead set on anything. It would be cool though to get a different experience on that side of the house. Looks like schooling isn't out of the option though.


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## Intel Nerd (Jul 23, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Not to sound like a wet blanket, but yikes! Our collegiate education system is bad enough when it comes to indoctrination, I can only imagine what they can get away with somewhere else. I would have figured that would be a red flag when trying to get into our intel apparatus.
> 
> I get going into the private sector with a foreign degree, but going straight into the intel sector seems kinda wonky.



Having had the opportunity to work with several students indirectly and meet with them to discuss Africa CT topics (plenty of academic meetings in London in my last job), it was actually pretty refreshing. I think they do a better job of teaching critical thinking and the course ware is much more focused on their program. Less "Introduction to Gender Studies" requirements for Gen Eds and more "International Political Economics 101."


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## R.Caerbannog (Jul 23, 2020)

Intel Nerd said:


> Having had the opportunity to work with several students indirectly and meet with them to discuss Africa CT topics (plenty of academic meetings in London in my last job), it was actually pretty refreshing. I think they do a better job of teaching critical thinking and the course ware is much more focused on their program. Less "Introduction to Gender Studies" requirements for Gen Eds and more "International Political Economics 101."


Don't get me wrong, our education system is in serious need of reformation. Just thinking that it might be easier to cultivate/groom/sneak in potential intel assets when they're going to school in a foreign land.

That said, I'm just a dumb grunt spitballin.


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