# Special Ops schools



## cbiwv (Jun 4, 2010)

Without turning this into a male organ measuring contest which U.S. Special Ops has the longest period of schooling before they are considered a member of the organization? Is it the Navy Seals? I thought I read somewhere that they do.


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## SoloKing (Jun 4, 2010)

I can say unequivocally that MARSOC places dead ass last of the last in this catagory. A&S, ITC, SERE, TCCC, next deploying company. And for some of the "GrandFathers" you can skip the first two. After that, some of the team guys will not take post deployment leave or pre deployment leave just to fit in a school, then redeploy. Our system..........well, we have no system, is pretty fucked. That and there is no MOS or bonus so Big Marine Corp and MARSOC can't figure out why guys are burning out and leaving the Marine Corp all togeter.  
****Sorry, Ranting a bit****


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## AWP (Jun 4, 2010)

cbiwv said:


> Without turning this into a male organ measuring contest which U.S. Special Ops has the longest period of schooling before they are considered a member of the organization? Is it the Navy Seals? I thought I read somewhere that they do.



Depends. Do you mean just the SOF school itself or are you including basic training, AIT/ Tech School/ A School (and for the Army guys jump school)?

Plus, are you talking about walking into the unit, on a probationary status, etc.?

Also, what job do you want? The 18B timeline is a lot different from the 18D timeline, but both are Special Forces qualified.

You are trying to quantify something that has a very broad scope.


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## cbiwv (Jun 4, 2010)

SoloKing said:


> I can say unequivocally that MARSOC places dead ass last of the last in this catagory. A&S, ITC, SERE, TCCC, next deploying company. And for some of the "GrandFathers" you can skip the first two. After that, some of the team guys will not take post deployment leave or pre deployment leave just to fit in a school, then redeploy. Our system..........well, we have no system, is pretty fucked. That and there is no MOS or bonus so Big Marine Corp and MARSOC can't figure out why guys are burning out and leaving the Marine Corp all togeter.
> ****Sorry, Ranting a bit****


 
If it makes you feel better I understand.


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## dknob (Jun 4, 2010)

If we are excluding basic training/AIT... but not Airborne: 

CCT:23-25 Months
PJ: 16 months
SF Medic: 20 months minimum
CAG: ASC + OTC = 7 months
SEAL: BUD/s (6 months) + SQT (4.5 months) = like 11 months ... although some SEALs might spend another 5-12 weeks in Pre BUD/s programs.

I think the 75th is dead last with 11 weeks (airborne included).

I got all that from wikipedia. And it "should" not include non-mandatory training, although most get sent to core schools while in house
i personally always thought it was PJ training, guess not.


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## al2004 (Jun 4, 2010)

What about SOWT in AFSOC? I was thinking the initial weather school is several months in length and much of the remainder is similar to the CCT pipeline if I'm not mistaken.


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## dknob (Jun 4, 2010)

^ didn't even know they were SOF


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## DA SWO (Jun 4, 2010)

dknob said:


> ^ didn't even know they were SOF


 
SOWT; Special Operations Weather Team. Part of the Special Tactics Community.  Assesment at lackland (4 weeks?), 6 months of weather school, Special tactics Training squadron at Hurlburt, Combat Control School segments at Pope.  Takes 12-18 months (IIRC) or so to get through the current pipeline.


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## dknob (Jun 5, 2010)

you learn something new everyday!


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## pardus (Jun 5, 2010)

dknob said:


> you learn something new everyday!


 
Like English?  



> SOWT; Special Operations Weather Team



LOL


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## dknob (Jun 5, 2010)

every day*... my keyboard buttons stick dammit!


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## 8'Duece (Jun 5, 2010)

Ask Surgicalcric how long it took to dawn his "Green Beret" 



You will have a new found appreciation for SF Medics. I'm betting he'd tell you to "Never quit" regardless of length of program and additional skill set training.  And, I think anybody that went through that experience would tell you that donning the "Green Beret" was "just the start" 


Amazing men.


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## Rando134 (Jun 5, 2010)

Although some pipelines are longer than others, continued training doesn't stop once you are a member of whatever unit you are apart of. Marsoc and Recon still go to a lot of advanced schools after they are apart of their battalion.


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## surgicalcric (Jun 5, 2010)

If a persons decision on which course of action to follow, as it applies to the various disciplines inside SOF, hinges on the length of the pipeline I would that they not worry about SOF and stick to something which requires less dedication and resolution on their part.

We have enough guys in SOF already who need to be coddled and have the back patted at every gate...we need no more.

Crip


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## JJ sloan (Jun 5, 2010)

surgicalcric said:


> If a persons decision on which course of action to follow, as it applies to the various disciplines inside SOF, hinges on the length of the pipeline I would that they not worry about SOF and stick to something which requires less dedication and resolution on their part.
> 
> We have enough guys in SOF already who need to be coddled and have the back patted at every gate...we need no more.
> 
> Crip


 
Word.


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## x SF med (Jun 6, 2010)

Hmmmm...  My first TS and SGM used size 10 Chippewas to 'back pat' in the 4th point of contact...  and coddling was done with boiling water, just like an egg.

IMNSHO...  anybody that makes it through the selection, training and acceptance period for any Special Operations Unit has nothing to be ashamed of, being a productive member of the Team is what it's all about.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 6, 2010)

Shit I almost spent as much time at SWC as I did in High School,lol. But I am a weirdo medic so your mileage may vary.


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## Diesel_Actual (Jun 8, 2010)

I don't know what unit has the most the required training before being considered operational,

The US Navy SEAL selection/training pipeline (current)
1. Enlistment to Navy
2. If applicant is entering Navy under the SEAL(SO) contract he will be enrolled into a prep program @ Great Lakes prior to Navy boot. Prep program is 2 months + standard Navy Boot
3. Now to Coronado, Bud/s orientation: 3 weeks
4. BUD/s First Phase w/ HELL WEEK
5. BUD/s Second Phase
6.BUD/s Third Phase
7. Graduate BUD/s(phases 1,2,3 = 6 months) but still not a SEAL yet
8. Attend US ARMY AIRBORNE school
9. Enrollment in SEAL qualification training/SQT after which the man gets his Trident, but he is still not a operational SEAL yet, first he must complete another 18+months of individual/platoon/special skill training in the Team he is placed, during which he may attend many other NSW/Joint training schools, for example NSW Scout/Sniper School, Camp Atterbury, Indiana
Selection for specialty teams, namely SDVT, can add many more months of required training.

Add that all up, it puts it at over 2 years before an operational SEAL is produced. Also note, over 40% of all SEALs are qualified combat corpsmen.


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## Diesel_Actual (Jun 8, 2010)

Diesel_Actual said:


> I don't know what unit has the most the required training before being considered operational,
> 
> The US Navy SEAL selection/training pipeline (current)
> 1. Enlistment to Navy
> ...


 
Correction, as of 2003, BUD/s Graduates no longer attend Army Airborne school, instead receive parachute training @ Navy's Tactical Air Operations School in San Diego, CA = 4.5 wks


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## cbiwv (Jun 8, 2010)

Diesel_Actual said:


> I don't know what unit has the most the required training before being considered operational,
> 
> The US Navy SEAL selection/training pipeline (current)
> 1. Enlistment to Navy
> ...



That is some impressive stuff right there. My deepest respect to those who earn the Trident.


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## dknob (Jun 9, 2010)

Are you sure that SEALs are not operational after SQT???


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## AWP (Jun 9, 2010)

dknob said:


> Are you sure that SEALs are not operational after SQT???



Good point. As I understood it from the comfort of my keyboard, after SQT they go to a Team and are then placed, at the needs of the Team, into the deployment train-up process which I thought was about 18 months long. That's how it was explained to me at least a few years ago.


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## dknob (Jun 9, 2010)

i thought if dude is done with sqt and he shows up to his team right before a deployment he is most certainlygetting his feet wet ondeployment.


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## pardus (Jun 9, 2010)

dknob said:


> Are you sure that SEALs are not operational after SQT???


 
Diesel_Actual is not and has never been in the Military so his information may not be accurate on this subject. :2c:


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## Diesel_Actual (Jun 10, 2010)

pardus said:


> Diesel_Actual is not and has never been in the Military so his information may not be accurate on this subject. :2c:


 
Yep, your correct sir, I am just an civilian sector ass-clown. But for what it's worth, which isn't much, I am the son of a 32 yr served USN MCPO who spent a good while teaching a SERE school in Florida that alot of SEALs attended.
Anyways, perhaps "operational" is a bad choice of words, but after the 26 wks of SQT (wiki is wrong btw, it says 15wks, iirc), the new SEALs are on a probationary period of up-to 18 months (according to a NSW PR officer I know), I believe if a platoon was in desperate need of an operator, he could be deployed downrange, although I think it would be in bad judgment (I would think they would pull a operator from Team 17/18), but what do I know.  
Last I checked, the SEALs deployment schedule is still 18 month work-up and 6 months combat, which is where the 18 month probationary period for new froggies plays in. SEAL missions have become so complex that the 18 month work-up is completely necessary, it wouldn't make much sense to drop a new frog into a platoon that's about to deploy (referencing Couch on that)


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## Teufel (Jun 10, 2010)

Diesel_Actual said:


> Yep, your correct sir, I am just an civilian sector ass-clown. But for what it's worth, which isn't much, I am the son of a 32 yr served USN MCPO who spent a good while teaching a SERE school in Florida that alot of SEALs attended.
> Anyways, perhaps "operational" is a bad choice of words, but after the 26 wks of SQT (wiki is wrong btw, it says 15wks, iirc), the new SEALs are on a probationary period of up-to 18 months (according to a NSW PR officer I know), I believe if a platoon was in desperate need of an operator, he could be deployed downrange, although I think it would be in bad judgment (I would think they would pull a operator from Team 17/18), but what do I know.
> Last I checked, the SEALs deployment schedule is still 18 month work-up and 6 months combat, which is where the 18 month probationary period for new froggies plays in. SEAL missions have become so complex that the 18 month work-up is completely necessary, it wouldn't make much sense to drop a new frog into a platoon that's about to deploy (referencing Couch on that)


 
Alright I don't normally comment on SEAL matters since I don't have a trident but here goes.  What SERE school is in Florida?  You don't make a very persuasive case about the military education you received from your father if you cite a school that I have never heard of.  Are you talking about water survival for pilots???  Anyway SEALs have a long pipeline.  All special operations forces have a long pipeline.  Next topic.


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## Diesel_Actual (Jun 10, 2010)

Teufel said:


> Alright I don't normally comment on SEAL matters since I don't have a trident but here goes.  What SERE school is in Florida?  You don't make a very persuasive case about the military education you received from your father if you cite a school that I have never heard of.  Are you talking about water survival for pilots???  Anyway SEALs have a long pipeline.  All special operations forces have a long pipeline.  Next topic.


 
NAS Pensacola/Eglin AFB, which is open water survival school, IIRC it operated more broadly when he had a gig there, I can't remember if SEALs attended there or not, but I remember knowing quite a few SEALs when we were in P-cola.  But the one I was referring to is no longer operating, I can't remember the location right now but it was south/central Florida, but we are talking back in the '60s and '70s, and it wasn't a school that everyone attended. I'll get back to ya on that.

But anyways, I wasn't really trying to make a "persuasive case", just making a point that I'm not a complete military outsider as I spent many years on many different Navy bases, which doesn't really mean dick.


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## 0699 (Jun 11, 2010)

Diesel_Actual said:


> *NAS Pensacola/Eglin AFB, which is open water survival school*, IIRC it operated more broadly when he had a gig there, I can't remember if SEALs attended there or not, but I remember knowing quite a few SEALs when we were in P-cola.  But the one I was referring to is no longer operating, I can't remember the location right now but it was south/central Florida, but we are talking back in the '60s and '70s, and it wasn't a school that everyone attended. I'll get back to ya on that.
> 
> But anyways, I wasn't really trying to make a "persuasive case", just making a point that I'm not a complete military outsider as I spent many years on many different Navy bases, which doesn't really mean dick.


 
It's funny that you call P'cola "SERE".  I went there.  It's not SERE.  SEALs didn't attend the three day land survival package, aircrew did.

Did you teach there, or did your daddy?  My father was a greenskeeper.  Doesn't make me an expert in grass...


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