# Israel refuses to tell US its Iran intentions



## DA SWO (Nov 13, 2011)

i don't know how reliable the UK Telegraph is.
Couple of points I want to make are:

1.  IDF should be preparing for a war with Iran, as Iran will attack Israel if they think they can win.  Professional Militaries prepare for war as a deterrent.

2.  If the story is true; then Obama's constant snubbing of the Jewish Leader is now biting him in the ass.  Don't be a jerk to someone who you may need in the future.

The story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...l-refuses-to-tell-US-its-Iran-intentions.html

*Israel has refused to reassure President Barack Obama that it would warn him in advance of any pre-emptive strike on Iran's nuclear capabilities, raising fears that it may be planning a go-it-alone attack as early as next summer...........*


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## Marauder06 (Nov 13, 2011)

Just last week I had to do a paper on what I would advise the President if this were to happen.


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## RackMaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Our Defence Minister is going to talk to the Israeli Defence Minister about it, we'll see if anything concrete comes out of it; I doubt they'll tell us any plans.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/11/12/mackay-israel-iran.html


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## QC (Nov 13, 2011)

Netanyhu is a cunt. (Sorry of this sounds like it's written on a toilet wall but WTF).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 13, 2011)

Long but good!


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## policemedic (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm sure Israel gave strong consideration to destroying Iran's nuclear program before it matured to the point it has reached now.  It seems to me that any attack on Iran by Israel carries certain risks; I'm not convinced that the risks are less because they chose to defer any action/decision until Iran made significant progress.

One thing is certain-the Israelis will defend their country as they see fit.  It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.


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## DA SWO (Nov 13, 2011)

QC said:


> Netanyhu is a cunt. (Sorry of this sounds like it's written on a toilet wall but WTF).


Why?


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## SpitfireV (Nov 13, 2011)

Iran will never go to war directly. They would use surrogates.


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## Manolito (Nov 13, 2011)

I have been reading and a lot of experts who ever they are have doubts if Israel has the capabilities to take out all of Irans nuke capabilities alone. They seem to think the US or another power in the west like England would be required to disable the entire capability.
I read where Russia is saying it would be a big mistake for somebody to attack Iran. Big talk but I don't know what capabilities they still have.
Putting a Iranian fleet presence off the coast of the US would allow a vertical launch short range delivery vehicle to deliver a nuke.
I wonder if we should worry?


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## pardus (Nov 13, 2011)

QC said:


> Netanyhu is a cunt. (Sorry of this sounds like it's written on a toilet wall but WTF).



What? Why?

He's is a dynamic leader and one that has the balls to do what is needed, and that is wipe out the nuclear threat to the Jewish state. I hope Israel nukes Iran before the reverse happens because it surely will. I have said many times in the past that I don't want to go to war with Iran because they are a potential ally once we dispose of the Islamic BS they live under now. But "we" cannot allow Iran to become a nuclear power. Israel and us must destroy that before it matures. I will happily go to war against Iran if it is in the defense of Israel, the one and only democracy in the middle east.


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## Boon (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm glad he is snubbing Obama.  Israel has seen the lacking level of support they are getting from this administration, and a country needs to worry about its own interests.


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## QC (Nov 13, 2011)

SOWT said:


> Why?


Firstly, I'm pro Isreal, I'm not a fifth columnist for Hamas, Fatah or anyone. Similarly, I can live in country and disagree with policy. But the stance he takes in the name of "peace" is a nonsense and he has no intention of solving the ME question
On Iran and nukes, it's been proven recently and published by the IAEA that they have the capability but they would be insane to use it against Israel as the fallout would be the big IF in the equation. Would it harm their regional proxies? I do think a nuclear Iran is a danger however and must be watched carefully.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 13, 2011)

QC said:


> On Iran and nukes, it's been proven recently and published by the IAEA that they have the capability but they would be *insane* to use it against Israel as the fallout would be the big IF in the equation.



They are bro, thats why people are freaking the hell out. Iran has said they would destroy Israel, I believe they will try.


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## QC (Nov 14, 2011)

Yes understood JAB, IMO the sabre rattling is for domestic consumption in Iran.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 14, 2011)

QC said:


> Yes understood JAB, IMO the sabre rattling is for domestic consumption in Iran.



Not busting your balls bro, but the saber rattling is not really such. Iran has actively funded terror groups in an effort to attack Israel, the US and many more places. They have attacked UK troops Navy forces in the past and they have told the whole world that they will destroy Israel, etc. It’s pretty clear that if they have the capability, that they will do so, maybe not in the next 6 months, but I believe they will.

The only thing I think stopping WW3 from kicking off in the ME, is that China and Russia are playing politics with Iran. I think they are probably telling Iran don’t do it or we will cut off all trade and support the world in kicking your ass. Mean while they are playing the same game with the rest of the world by backing Iran, and saying don’t attack or we will back Iran, etc. We all know Russia and China are not going to war over Iran, especially against the United States.

The problem that I see, is that the Iranian government is very much insane…


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## DA SWO (Nov 14, 2011)

QC said:


> Yes understood JAB, IMO the sabre rattling is for domestic consumption in Iran.


Achma-dina-boob is a nutjob who believes starting a nuclear war will bring the 12th Imam out of his hole, and usher in a world-wide conversion to Islam.

No, the saber rattling is very real.  EFP's in Iraq and Afghanistan are more then saber rattling.  We should have capped his ass when the EFP's showed up, but didn't.  Hopefully Israel will finish what we are afraid to start.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> Not busting your balls bro, but the saber rattling is not really such. Iran has actively funded terror groups in an effort to attack Israel, the US and many more places. They have attacked UK troops Navy forces in the past and they have told the whole world that they will destroy Israel, etc. It’s pretty clear that if they have the capability, that they will do so, maybe not in the next 6 months, but I believe they will.



You know the Israelis have directly attacked the US right?


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## Boon (Nov 14, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> You know the Israelis have directly attacked the US right?



So have the British


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## QC (Nov 14, 2011)

policemedic said:


> I'm sure Israel gave strong consideration to destroying Iran's nuclear program before it matured to the point it has reached now.  It seems to me that any attack on Iran by Israel carries certain risks; I'm not convinced that the risks are less because they chose to defer any action/decision until Iran made significant progress.
> 
> One thing is certain-the Israelis will defend their country as they see fit.  It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out.


Thanks for all your replies BWT. The Israeli counter may be difficult as some of the facilities are deep on mountains or similar and hard to get at.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 14, 2011)

Boon said:


> So have the British



Lol yes that is true. But in the last 60 years?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 14, 2011)

Cback if your talking about the US Liberty, I understood that was a mistaken target during the 6 day war? Are you comparing that to how Iran has directly attacked our troops in Iraq?


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## QC (Nov 14, 2011)

Before we get into the Iran situation any deeper, there was a wit who summed up Netanyahus' current approach...you've ordered a pizza and are eating it while you haggle about the price.


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## Ranger Psych (Nov 14, 2011)

Are you using the USS Liberty as your incident of note, or do you have others to bring to the table? I'm just looking for some education Cback.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 14, 2011)

I am talking about the liberty. And like many others I do not believe it was a simple case of "mistaken identity". I have stated my views on the Israel before.


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## TLDR20 (Nov 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> Cback if your talking about the US Liberty, I understood that was a mistaken target during the 6 day war? Are you comparing that to how Iran has directly attacked our troops in Iraq?



Yes because they attacked a flag carrying US vessel. Pretty goddamned direct. The Israelis are responsible for many US servicemembers killed due to their policies. It is easy to see. They may be indirect, yes, but responsible nonetheless.


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## DA SWO (Nov 14, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Yes because they attacked a flag carrying US vessel. Pretty goddamned direct. The Israelis are responsible for many US servicemembers killed due to their policies. It is easy to see. They may be indirect, yes, but responsible nonetheless.


Agree, but Iran has more US blood on their hands.
We haven't always honored agreements with other nations (Grenada).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 14, 2011)

Cback, without getting into theory arguments regarding Israeli policy, I will state that I find hard to believe that Israel would directly (knowing it was a US Ship) attack the USS Liberty when we were the biggest friend/supporter of Israel during that time. The 6 day war was fought with a whole bunch of US equipment and even though the “mistaken identity” argument might not seem right, they sent Israeli ships to help directly after identifying that it was a US Ship. Who attacks a ship and then sends help? Anyway, I do not see this terrible incident as the same as what Iran has done in Iraq. Not even fucking close.

Iran fucking sent/backed Muqtadā al-Ṣadr, they funded not only the civil war but also put Iraqi’s on the attack who were only weeks prior kissing us and passing out flowers. Iranians were boots on the ground, running destabilization, and using terror attacks to fuel the fire (I know, my unit was killing those motherfuckers every day). The amount of soldiers killed and wounded by the EFP’s that Iran put on the battle field alone, is reason enough for me to want to nuke that whole fucking country into the afterlife. Some pictures of Iranian supplied attacks...


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## SpitfireV (Nov 14, 2011)

There were Israeli comms interecepted, IIRC, that showed them organising the attack and they knew it was a US ship. There's a big difference between a "friend" attacking you and a nation that is openly hostile towards you attacking you. The former is 1000x times worse than the latter IMO.


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Nov 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> Cback, without getting into theory arguments regarding Israeli policy, I will state that I find hard to believe that Israel would directly (knowing it was a US Ship) attack the USS Liberty when we were the biggest friend/supporter of Israel during that time.



One of the biggest strengths of Israel and its weakest (IMHO) is that they will ALWAYS put themselves above the best interest of anyone else.  Now this isn't always a bad thing, but we need to remember that we are Israels Allie, but that doesn't make her ours.  It is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.  I can easily see the Israels targeting our ship in support of their attack if they felt it was for the greater good of their country.

(FIY I am pro-Isrieli (Spent over a month there when I was 15. Had a BLAST) but I am also pro NY Jets, and that doesn't stop me from realizing when the Jets suck)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 14, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> There were Israeli comms interecepted, IIRC, that showed them organising the attack and they knew it was a US ship. There's a big difference between a "friend" attacking you and a nation that is openly hostile towards you attacking you. The former is 1000x times worse than the latter IMO.



I have not read a lot on the USS Liberty incident, but if you have a link I would like to read the report on the intercepted communications report.



SgtUSMC8541 said:


> One of the biggest strengths of Israel and its weakest (IMHO) is that they will ALWAYS put themselves above the best interest of anyone else. Now this isn't always a bad thing, but we need to remember that we are Israels Allie, but that doesn't make her ours. It is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. I can easily see the Israels targeting our ship in support of their attack if they felt it was for the greater good of their country.
> 
> (FIY I am pro-Isrieli (Spent over a month there when I was 15. Had a BLAST) but I am also pro NY Jets, and that doesn't stop me from realizing when the Jets suck)



I am not blindly saying we should follow Israel into war because we are simply allie's or b/c anything else. I am saying Israel faces more of a threat than anyone else, they stand more to lose and they have very little option in defense of their country. They have a common enemy "Iran" and we as the United States should not be giving Israel shit for wanting to protect themselves from the biggest threat the world faces today. I don't blame them for saying "hell no we are telling you if we will strike Iran" why would they, Obama would probably tell them no, and hold a press confrence stating that he told Israel no, prior to them getting the mission off the ground. Hell he just did it to a 100 SOF guys heading into Africa...

It's better for everyone that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon...


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Nov 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> I am not blindly saying we should follow Israel into war because we are simply allie's or b/c anything else. I am saying Israel faces more of a threat than anyone else, they stand more to lose and they have very little option in defense of their country. They have a common enemy "Iran" and we as the United States should not be giving Israel shit for wanting to protect themselves from the biggest threat the world faces today. I don't blame them for saying "hell no we are telling you if we will strike Iran" why would they, Obama would probably tell them no, and hold a press confrence stating that he told Israel no, prior to them getting the mission off the ground. Hell he just did it to a 100 SOF guys heading into Africa...
> 
> It's better for everyone that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon...



I agree.


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## Servimus (Nov 14, 2011)

SOWT said:


> Don't be a jerk to someone who you may need in the future.



Sounds like PERFECT advice for Israel.

In all seriousness though, it's a two way street. Obama has not snubbed Netanyahu any more than Netanyahu has snubbed Obama. Netanyahu, among others, is not making this peace process any easier (totally excluding the question as to why we're arbitrating this dispute anyways).

If anything, this news article is somewhat typical of US-Israeli relations.



SgtUSMC8541 said:


> but I am also pro NY Jets, and that doesn't stop me from realizing when the Jets suck)


And the Jets do suck. lol


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## Marauder06 (Nov 14, 2011)

Liberty incident Wiki page.

Iran is a much bigger threat to US security than just about anything Israel can do right now.  If (I should probably just say "when") Iran gets a nuclear bomb, there is a very real possibility that it will spark a regional nuclear arms race, with Saudi Arabia most likely leading the way and several other middle eastern countries following suit.  Countries like Syria, in particular, will probably be looking at nukes as a strategic hedge against outside-influenced regime change.  In addition to the conspicuous problems of all of these countries having nukes, I think it would be only a matter of time before they are used against Israel and, after Israel is gone, against the US and/or Europe.

Overall, I consider Israel a good ally and good proxy for US policy.  We might bitch and moan if the Israelis take out Iranian nukes (they already did it to Iraq and Syria), but I bet there's a party in the White House when it happens.


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## HOLLiS (Nov 14, 2011)

Every country put themselves before any other country. Also no country completely trusts another. Ask the French about the attack on Mers-el-Kébir.

So we are doing the USS Liberty debacle. Ever read what Judge Cistol report? BTW this is a very very politically charged event for a number of reasons. There are also articles on Judge Cristol report that contradicts what his conclusions are. There are some very strong political motivations to keep this issue extremely hot.

http://www.mefacts.com/cached.asp?x_id=10058

Part of the problem the US chose to keep a number of facts secret and that lead people to go different directions interpreting what happened. Part of the facts withheld was the recording from the pilot who attacked the USS Liberty.

F/F or blue on blue happens. I know of three time that happened in my Regiment in RVN over a 3 month period. The funny one, only one injury, is when our front element opened fire on our rear element on a company move on a horseshoe shaped ridge. BTW friendly fire is never friendly and you will swear they are trying to hit you.

Other two times, Long round USA Arty kills one Marine in my Company, I 3/3, in June. 5 short rounds kills 3 Marines and 2 Docs in I 3/3, in August.

So believe what you want.

BTW spitfire according to the Pilot's recording, He did not know it was a US ship. This was before, during the attack. IIRC, this was released about 5 years ago.

Another funny part, compare the heat on the attack on the USS Liberty 1967 and the attack on the Marine Barracks in Beirut 1983.


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## Scotth (Nov 14, 2011)

Israel needs the US a lot more then we need them.  Servimus is right that Israel has done plenty of insulting of the US, that country that protects them at the UN and gives them billions in military and foreign aid each year.  Israel is pretty isolated in the world and doesn't have a whole lot of friends beyond our country.

I really don't know what to make of their saber rattling.  If your seriously going to launch an attack against a foreign government why the hell are you publicly talking about it?  I think QC was right that this whole thing is more for internal consumption then external.

Even if they are serious it would probably take many raids to completely take out Iran's nuclear capability.  Can Israel really mount that kind of extended  bombing campaign especially if we aren't in Iraq to refuel their planes?

Iran believes it's in their personal best interest to have nuclear weapons to deter possible invasion.  The only way to really prevent Iran from going nuclear is a long term bombing campaign or invasion and that is no more an option under Obama then it was under Bush.  At the end of the day we will do the same thing we have always done.  We will talk about how unacceptable it is for Iran to get nuclear weapons.  There isn't much that will be done overtly and when they become nuclear we will move on to a different target.  We will depend on the same strategy that we have always depended on to protect us and that is the threat of nuclear retaliation and we will live with a nuclear Iran just like we are now living with a nuclear North Korea.


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