# Workout program advice?



## John21 (Sep 15, 2013)

So I would say that I'm fairly new to the world of fitness programs and all that jazz and I've been looking into crossfit quite a bit maybe as a method of boosting my general fitness, but at the same time I am also trying to gain mass. I've read conflicting things about the effectiveness of Crossfit and about mass gain from Crossfit, obviously there are "haters" out there when it comes to Crossfit but I figure this is as good a place as any to inquire about it and get an answer from some people with experience(in the military, in tactical units or positions that aren't just civilian fitness fiends) that may have used Crossfit. Has Crossfit been beneficial in regards to being functionally fit, or would I find the same benefits from just following my current program of bodybuilding and running?(I realize that this program creates an uphill battle as far as mass gain goes but I'm trying to train for a spartan race and a potential selection course in the future) But I know that is one thing that supporters of Crossfit preach. Also, does Crossfit promote mass gain or will I potentially lose weight? I'm sitting around 165-170 but I'd like to gain 10 more pounds.


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## goon175 (Sep 15, 2013)

Check out TF Black, they have three different tracks depending on your goals. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## John21 (Sep 15, 2013)

Yeah I can definitely dig it seeing as how it has a military section and seems to go right along with my needs. Thank you


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## SkrewzLoose (Sep 15, 2013)

Are you using CF as an all encompassing term for HIIT? or do you mean the brand itself?
What conflicting things have you read about CF's effectiveness? in regards to what? 
Have you looked into Military Athlete?  
What about SOFWODs?
TF Black above looks pretty sweet too.
What have you found in this forum when this question has been asked in the past?
Why do you want to put on weight?

Weight/mass gain has more to do with what you eat than how you lift.  

You could stand to 1) do more research 2) if the research is already done, present your question with more information and less fluff.


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## SIG (Sep 15, 2013)

May I ask why you are training for a spartan race AND a selection course AND bulking up? What is 'functional' fitness to you?

The reason I ask is because your goals are contradicting each other. A selection course and spartan race share some physiological similiarities and are mainly endurance based. An increase in muscle mass will require your training and energy intake to be geared solely towards building muscle and strength. Endurance training does not allow for this (mass). In short: choose one goal and work at it.

You ask about Crossfit getting you functionally fit.. 'Functional' can be put in front of anything when it comes to the body (just look up functional medicine, functional sports nutirition etc). You should really sit down and get into goal setting. Write down your goal(s) and why you want to acheive them. Necessity over desire! 

If you desire a beach body but need to perform on a selection course then selection gets the priority ten times out of ten! Getting fit for the specific demands of a selection course will get you 'functionally' fit for selection!


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## John21 (Sep 15, 2013)

Yeah like I stated they were kinda contradictory. I want my cake and I wanna eat it too, dumb I know but I guess I'm just hoping that there is a magical program out there that will accomplish all my goals lol.  In response to the negative things I've heard about crossfit, I've heard that the community is a bit cultish or frat boyish if that makes sense and that some people didn't see much difference in PT scores or overall fitness after attending classes which I suppose depends on your over all level of fitness when starting the program. Selection and functional fitness comes first of course but like I said I want my cake and I want to eat it too. I apologize if I come off as ignorant of fitness programs and fitness in general I kinda am. I used to wrestle and now I mostly just run and lift and that has been more than good enough for me to hit about 300 on my APFT but I have no education or background in fitness and nutrition.


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## goon175 (Sep 15, 2013)

If your preparing for a selection course, there is no point in trying to put mass on, you'll just lose whatever gains you make.


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## goon175 (Sep 15, 2013)

http://games.crossfit.com/athlete/11435
http://games.crossfit.com/athlete/12485
http://games.crossfit.com/athlete/38209

The above links will show you some good examples of guys who do CF that are also pretty big.


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## SIG (Sep 16, 2013)

John21 said:


> Yeah like I stated they were kinda contradictory. I want my cake and I wanna eat it too, dumb I know but I guess I'm just hoping that there is a magical program out there that will accomplish all my goals lol.  In response to the negative things I've heard about crossfit, I've heard that the community is a bit cultish or frat boyish if that makes sense and that some people didn't see much difference in PT scores or overall fitness after attending classes which I suppose depends on your over all level of fitness when starting the program. Selection and functional fitness comes first of course but like I said I want my cake and I want to eat it too. I apologize if I come off as ignorant of fitness programs and fitness in general I kinda am. I used to wrestle and now I mostly just run and lift and that has been more than good enough for me to hit about 300 on my APFT but I have no education or background in fitness and nutrition.



First thing for you to realise is your training has to include specificity (a very basic guide to Principles of Fitness  http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/training-principles-to-improve-athlete-performance). Crossfit will not improve your APFT scores, run times, selection performance etc. as it is not designed to. My main grievance with Crossfit is that people preach it as being adaptable to any and all fitness requirements. It is not.  

Crossfit will improve your baseline fitness levels if you're starting from scratch.. like ANY programme would. The reason professional athletes don't use it as their programming is because it is not sport/job specfic! Doing 50 box jumps and 25 snatches might be physically demanding.. but it does not mimic the power requirements of a football player ,for example, who requires _short_ bouts of strength + speed. 

To simplify it.. your training needs to cater to your requirements. Doing 6 rounds of a Crossfit WOD might gut check you.. but it wont make carrying 60lbs of gear over hills any easier. Train specific to your needs!!! What selection course are you attending and when?


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## goon175 (Sep 16, 2013)

SIG said:


> First thing for you to realise is your training has to include specificity (a very basic guide to Principles of Fitness  http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/training-principles-to-improve-athlete-performance). Crossfit will not improve your APFT scores *It can and does, there are studies I can send you if you would like sources*, run times *again, it can and does*, selection performance etc. *many have used it to prepare for various selections and have been successful at said selections* as it is not designed to. My main grievance with Crossfit is that people preach it as being adaptable to any and all fitness requirements. It is not.
> 
> Crossfit will improve your baseline fitness levels if you're starting from scratch.. like ANY programme would. The reason professional athletes don't use it *Many do, this can be found through simple google search.* as their programming is because it is not sport/job specfic! Doing 50 box jumps and 25 snatches might be physically demanding.. but it does not mimic the power requirements of a football player ,for example, who requires _short_ bouts of strength + speed.
> 
> To simplify it.. your training needs to cater to your requirements. Doing 6 rounds of a Crossfit WOD might gut check you.. but it wont make carrying 60lbs of gear over hills any easier. Train specific to your needs!!! What selection course are you attending and when?



Over all, I would say you don't have a very good understanding of CrossFit.


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## SIG (Sep 16, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Over all, I would say you don't have a very good understanding of CrossFit.


I would be interested in having a look at those studies if you have them? 

I don't disagree Crossfit can be_ adapted_ to meet goals and subsequently meet those goals. But I do disagree that the WOD approach (i.e. the bread and butter of Crossfit) will improve endurance performance, football etc. Yes you can adapt Crossfit to meet your needs; that is exactly what TF Black, Military Athlete have done. The latter has introduced non linear perdiodisation but uses the Crossfit workout format. That does not make it Crossfit.

Any programme can be altered to tailor to your specific needs. Do you believe the Crossfit WOD's alone will prepare you for a particular area (i.e. football, military, LE)? That is what I'm referring to. Crossfit has branched out into other areas and it is a great development. But it would be foolish to think that teams are using solely Crossfit to prepare. The very occasional WOD or Crossfit formatted session maybe but it certainly does not form the basis of their year plan. I don't wish to make this a Crossfit debate, so my apologies if I am dragging us off topic. 

This study (based on abstract) would suggest Crossfit programming is a catch all. However it does state it was a Cfrossfit _based_ programme carried out on 'healthy subjects' ranging in levels of fitness. General adaptations take place with untrained individuals undertaking any new programme; putting athletes with a high training age through it would give significantly different results I feel!  
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/A...ased_high_intensity_power_training.97874.aspx


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## goon175 (Sep 16, 2013)

Here is one study: http://www.25idl.army.mil/PT/U.S. Army CrossFit Study.pdf

It seems to me that you think CrossFit is only the benchmark WOD's. Again, based on your comments above, I think you just have a basic misunderstanding of the methodology behind CrossFit. Your right though, this is a bit off topic, we have some other CF yay or nay themed threads on here that would be a more appropriate venue for this conversation.


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## SIG (Sep 16, 2013)

Roger that on off topic!

I'll reitierate to OP.. What and when is your selection course? What does your current routine look like?


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## John21 (Sep 16, 2013)

May 2014 and the SOT-A selection course which I'm assuming will likely be stood up between now and then officially, according to this forum there have already been some guys that have gone to a selection course for it and graduated but I believe it was unofficial. Otherwise apparently groups hold their own little course for the guys. So I'm just preparing for what I've come to understand is the inevitable.


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## SIG (Sep 16, 2013)

Roughly 9 months so.. What does your current training look like? The guys on here can give better advice on the requirements than I can.


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## John21 (Sep 16, 2013)

Currently I lift or do crossfit type workouts, with kettle bells or what have you, about 5 times a week then I run about 20 miles or more, bike about 15 or so. Took last week off somewhat, just light activity, because this week I'm starting actual crossfit classes M/W/F with my buddy who is also currently slated to be a SOT-A(insha allah we pass the DLPT) then Tuesdays and Thursdays strength training in the morning and endurance training in the afternoon and then Saturday rucking probably 40-45lb ruck. I feel like that should be a solid schedule and good prep for anything but then again I could be wrong.


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## goon175 (Sep 16, 2013)

What Crossfit gym are you going to?


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## John21 (Sep 16, 2013)

Crossfit Monterey


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## goon175 (Sep 16, 2013)

They have a pretty good reputation, I'm sure you'll gain a lot from working with them. My suggestion would be to soak up as much as you can on technique with the Oly lifts so that when you get out to GF you can do the movements correctly.


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## John21 (Sep 16, 2013)

Yeah that's one of my goals with this class is to learn proper technique to avoid injury and so I can continue to train at GF. I've heard PT there is very... army... meaning PRT and I have been warned by my PSG, that did my SOT-A stuff, to stay in the best shape I can before I get to group.


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Sep 29, 2013)

You are not going to have anyone there at GF coaching you. If it was me, I would remove any unnecessary risk between myself and what my goal is.  You can improve your anaerobic conditioning in a much safer way than Olympic lifting. If nothing more, drop the risk till you get to your end goal, then do it till your hearts content if need be.


From what I read, nobody else has mentioned that your nutrition is going to dictate  your goal of gaining/losing 10lbs. I think it's a good idea, as long as your performance doesn't take a hit. You can PM me if you would like some help.


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