# MARSOC Questions



## Abyssion (Feb 19, 2014)

Currently I'm a civilian, researching into joining the military (Navy or Marines)

To be blunt, how are MARSOC Marines different from Navy SEALs?

Looking at MARSOC training, A&S looks very similar to BUD/S Indoc, and ITC looks very similar to BUD/S and SQT, in length and in skills learned.


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## Abyssion (Feb 19, 2014)

I apologize in advance, it looks as though I didn't do much research. I've looked at the overviews for the SEALs and MARSOC, and it's like I'm reading the same page.

It seems as though each special operations/special forces (Army, Navy, AF, Marines) goes through the same weedout courses/the same gut checks, and mostly the same training, and end working for the same people (JSOC/SOCOM).

As an outsider looking in, I'm having trouble identifying differnces, which is why I'm trying to get information from people who have been there, done that.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 19, 2014)

I am not SOF, so I will not attempt to answer your question, but I will offer some well intended advice. Go back and re- read the advice that @SOWT offered you in your intro post, "_decide what you want to do, then find the branch of the Military that offers that "job"._

Not questioning your commitment, but considering the washout rate of SOF programs, would it not make more sense to decide whether or not you want to be a Marine, soldier, airman, or sailor first? 

Could be a VERY long enlistment if you join a branch of the service with the intent of chasing a specific SOF program, and then never get selected or do not make it through the program.


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## Kheenbish (Feb 19, 2014)

Ooh-Rah1069 said:


> would it not make more sense to decide whether or not you want to be a *M*arine, *s*oldier, *a*irman, or *s*ailor first?


 
I see what you did there with the capitalization, being a little biased toward Marines.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 19, 2014)

Kheenbish said:


> I see what you did there with the capitalization, being a little biased toward Marines.



LOL - I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.  File under "know your audience"


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## DA SWO (Feb 19, 2014)

Abyssion said:


> I apologize in advance, it looks as though I didn't do much research. I've looked at the overviews for the SEALs and MARSOC, and it's like I'm reading the same page.
> 
> It seems as though each special operations/Special Forces (Army, Navy, AF, Marines) goes through the same weedout courses/the same gut checks, and mostly the same training, and end working for the same people (JSOC/SOCOM).
> 
> As an outsider looking in, I'm having trouble identifying differnces, which is why I'm trying to get information from people who have been there, done that.


The gut checks are similar because everything we do, we do in a joint environment.

Let me speak for the AF side.

CCT- Air Traffic Controllers who do a lot more (call in airstrikes, survey/establish assault zones).
PJ- Trauma Care/Rescue Specialists.  They can go anywhere and pull you out of harms way.
SOWT- Weather Specialists (weather in this case meaning forecasting/observing/oceanographic type stuff and a few other odds and ends)
TACP- CAS experts.  

So do you want to be a high speed Air Traffic Controller, Rescue Specialist, Meteorologist or JTAC?  Then the AF might be the branch you are looking for.  If not, then another branch of the military might be ba better fit.


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## goon175 (Feb 20, 2014)

As to the original question between NSW and MARSOC, there is one major difference: One you can attend selection for straight out of basic training, the other requires minimum rank and time in service. 

As far as all SOF units: All units have bleed over in capabilities, the difference are where they put their focus. 

For example: 

SF and Rangers both do direct action, but Rangers focus on it
SEALs and SF both do FID, but SF's focus on it
SEALs and PJ's both do CSAR, but PJ's focus on it
So on, and so forth.

So, as was mentioned above, figure out what it is you want to do exactly, and maybe we can help you narrow it down to which SOF units focus on that area more than others.


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## ritterk (Feb 20, 2014)

Watch Navy SEALs with Charlie Sheen. The answer you seek is there.


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## Abyssion (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks for all of the much needed advice. What it comes down to, from talking to other people as well, is what Ooh-Rah1069 and SOWT mentioned, decide on a branch first then go for the "job". Right now, that is the Marines. 

If I don't like it for whatever reason, I can always re-enlist after my contract is over. And I'll know more about the inner workings of the military from serving for a few years than I ever will being a civilian trying to decipher information from massive media influence with a hatchet.


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## swimr235 (Feb 20, 2014)

Speaking from absolutely ZERO combat arms experience. Joining the Marine corps (or Army) as an Infantrymen would be a good prep. If you decide to jump ship from either of those to another service you will not need to attend their respective boot camps and all SOF are combat trained so you would have a leg up, sotospeak. If you were to join, initially, the AF, Navy or Coast Guard and decided to go Army or Marines, you would be required to go through the boot camp process again. And possibly go through infantry school anyway. Just my little bit of info that I can offer as I'm contact with a couple recruiters and trying to iron out my own service swapping issues. As far as deciding goes: "be a student of your event" is what my coach told me, although he stole it from Bill Barrowman. Research, research and research. I rarely ask non-specific questions. Get the generalities out of the way. Look at the similarities  but also look at the specific missions more closely. You will find notable differences. Know your own strengths, what will help you get through the selection portion of whatever you choose to do and also what you would bring to a team.  I know where I want to go and I'm molding my path to fit that goal. Make sure you do the same. You are young, 23. This means you have enough time to make mistakes but that doesn't mean you should or doesn't mean you should make many. Make as best an educated choice as you can and take that bitch for the ride of your life. Make sure whatever you do you can capitalize on later.


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## goon175 (Feb 20, 2014)

Abyssion said:


> Thanks for all of the much needed advice. What it comes down to, from talking to other people as well, is what Ooh-Rah1069 and SOWT mentioned, decide on a branch first then go for the "job". Right now, that is the Marines.
> 
> If I don't like it for whatever reason, I can always re-enlist after my contract is over. And I'll know more about the inner workings of the military from serving for a few years than I ever will being a civilian trying to decipher information from massive media influence with a hatchet.



Figure out what you want to do, then figure out what unit does that, then figure out what branch that unit is in. In that order. 

Switching branches is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be, and 90% of the time can't be done at all. Better to get it right the first time.


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## Abyssion (Feb 20, 2014)

goon175 said:


> Figure out what you want to do, then figure out what unit does that, then figure out what branch that unit is in. In that order.
> 
> Switching branches is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be, and 90% of the time can't be done at all. Better to get it right the first time.



The point of this topic was to address your second criterion. While you have said unit X's focus is Y, it doesn't mean that's the only thing they do.

I want to be able to succeed in any environment: cold or hot, sea or land, jungle or mountains, etc. As far as missions go, I'm interested in SR,DA, and CT. I like learning multiple languages and cultures (I also have an interest in Intel).

Each SOF satisfies different criterion in different stages.

Army SF are excellent on land, and are fluent in a second language. While FID is their focus, they still do above missions.
MARSOC has critical skills operators that have intel-specific courses. Second language training is growing, but not required. I'm not sure of their mission focus, but are capable of any type of mission,

Navy SEALs do SR,DA and CT. Can do maritime or land missions (obviously). Second language not required.
And yes, I want to get this right the first time, it's why I've been reading this forum, among others. My choice in a few months will define my life for the next half decade, at the least.


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## AWP (Feb 20, 2014)

You can't have it all. At some point you have to pay your money and take your chances.

You're overthinking this. What is THE most important aspect to you? Your second? Your third? Make your list and then "pay your money."


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## goon175 (Feb 20, 2014)

Abyssion said:


> The point of this topic was to address your second criterion. While you have said unit X's focus is Y, it doesn't mean that's the only thing they do.
> 
> I want to be able to succeed in any environment: cold or hot, sea or land, jungle or mountains, etc. As far as missions go, I'm interested in SR,DA, and CT. I like learning multiple languages and cultures (I also have an interest in Intel).
> 
> ...



All of the SOF units are excellent on land... that's where battles are fought. SF is not required to be fluent in a second language, most of them know enough to get by and thats about it (with the exception of the spanish speakers, its easier to stay current with that because of that access to fluent speakers to practice with). Most SOF units have intel specific courses they attend, not just MARSOC.  Almost all SOF units do SR, DA, and CT and have maritime and land capabilities. Again, it comes down to what units focus on what, which is why you need to narrow down what you want to focus on.


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## Abyssion (Feb 21, 2014)

SR is what I want to focus, Marine Recon obviously does that. Any other unit focuses SR?


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## goon175 (Feb 21, 2014)

Abyssion said:


> SR is what I want to focus, Marine Recon obviously does that. Any other unit focuses SR?



First, Marine Reconnaissance is not a SOF unit under SOCOM. Second, and @Teufel correct me if I am wrong here, but Recon Marines do general reconnaissance in support of the MAGTF, not SR. MARSOC has SR as a mission, as well as the SEAL teams, Rangers, and Special Forces. The 75th's RRC is considered the best when it comes to SR, as they are an SMU that has SR as their sole focus - but they are not entry level and usually required a few years of experience in a SOF or LRS unit at minimum before you can apply. So, to summarize, really your only options for units you can try out for right off the bat are SEALs and SF if you want to do SR, but as that is not their main focus it is entirely possible you could go through an entire enlistment with out conducting a single SR mission.


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## devilbones (Feb 21, 2014)

I can help you eliminate at least one branch.  Do you want to be a Marine?  If the answer is not yes than you are going to have a real bad time.  There are lots of quality of life issues that are beneficial in the other services.  All of them will give you the opportunity to do what you like, but you have to be a Marine first if you decide to go the MARSOC route.  Good luck in whatever you choose.


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## x SF med (Feb 21, 2014)

Abyssion said:


> The point of this topic was to address your second criterion. While you have said unit X's focus is Y, it doesn't mean that's the only thing they do.
> 
> I want to be able to succeed in any environment: cold or hot, sea or land, jungle or mountains, etc. As far as missions go, I'm interested in SR,DA, and CT. I like learning multiple languages and cultures (I also have an interest in Intel).
> 
> ...




You are only partially right in your assessment of the branch capabilities, operating environments and special qualifications...  I'll leave it there and I expect you to do more research.


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## Teufel (Feb 21, 2014)

goon175 said:


> First, Marine Reconnaissance is not a SOF unit under SOCOM. Second, and @Teufel correct me if I am wrong here, but Recon Marines do general reconnaissance in support of the MAGTF, not SR. MARSOC has SR as a mission, as well as the SEAL teams, Rangers, and Special Forces. The 75th's RRC is considered the best when it comes to SR, as they are an SMU that has SR as their sole focus - but they are not entry level and usually required a few years of experience in a SOF or LRS unit at minimum before you can apply. So, to summarize, really your only options for units you can try out for right off the bat are SEALs and SF if you want to do SR, but as that is not their main focus it is entirely possible you could go through an entire enlistment with out conducting a single SR mission.


 
There is no difference really in what we are trained to do and SR.  The Army created the term SR IMHO because the term recon draws visions of cav scouts and RSTAs.  We also train to the same SOF basic standards as we have a charter to do interop with SOF and battle handovers.  The level of capability between MARSOC and recon is fairly similar aside from the enablers and some HUMINT stuff.  And FID.  We don't have a FID requirement.  Without getting into details, all of our companies have a requirement to conduct an evaluated company level full mission profile R&S into direct action mission with a HAHO insert.  The entire company.  They obviously spread that out across the area of operations but it's an impressive capability.  We just did one at the last division exercise.  We had teams all over the place sending full motion video back to generals.  Blew their minds.  The Marine Corps is the only service that has a SOF-like force in the GPF and there is something to be said about that.


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## DA SWO (Feb 21, 2014)

Teufel said:


> There is no difference really in what we are trained to do and SR.  The Army created the term SR IMHO because the term recon draws visions of cav scouts and RSTAs.  We also train to the same SOF basic standards as we have a charter to do interop with SOF and battle handovers.  The level of capability between MARSOC and recon is fairly similar aside from the enablers and some HUMINT stuff.  And FID.  We don't have a FID requirement.  Without getting into details, all of our companies have a requirement to conduct an evaluated company level full mission profile R&S into direct action mission with a HAHO insert.  The entire company.  They obviously spread that out across the area of operations but it's an impressive capability.  We just did one at the last division exercise.  We had teams all over the place sending full motion video back to generals.  Blew their minds.  *The Marine Corps is the only service that has a SOF-like force in the GPF and there is something to be said about that*.



I would equate Para-Rescue with SOF, and a large (majority?) are with the GPF.


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## goon175 (Feb 21, 2014)

SOWT said:


> I would equate Para-Rescue with SOF, and a large (majority?) are with the GPF.



I thought they all fell under AFSOC?


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## DA SWO (Feb 21, 2014)

goon175 said:


> I thought they all fell under AFSOC?


No.  CSAR transferred back to ACC.

Rumint says AFSOC may get them again, but I am not convinced that is a good idea.


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## Teufel (Feb 22, 2014)

SOWT said:


> No.  CSAR transferred back to ACC.
> 
> Rumint says AFSOC may get them again, but I am not convinced that is a good idea.


I didn't know that.  PJs aren't part of AFSOC?  Interesting.  I stand corrected.


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## DA SWO (Feb 22, 2014)

Teufel said:


> I didn't know that.  PJs aren't part of AFSOC?  Interesting.  I stand corrected.


Some are, some are part of the GPF.


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## Sandman3 (Feb 26, 2014)

I believe devilbones said it best, as far as the Marine Corps lies within your options, that title will come before all else no matter what job you hold.

It's a long road brother and I've seen the best of them fall off, drop pack, quit, etc... and I'm talking all the way from boot camp to ITC.  YOU are in complete control of your future, as long as you make the right choices, excel in your MOS to include self education and hard work.  That will get you a ticket to the big show one day, and establish a solid foundation required from those who succeed in this community.

But for now, it's the 5m target you need to focus on, which is boot camp if you choose to earn the title Marine.  And as far as picking an MOS, you can choose something to challenge yourself that you have no idea what to do or you can go with the polar opposite and something you already enjoy to enhance your skills.  Here's the sweet part, it doesn't matter if you're an admin clerk, motor t, air traffic control, or a recon Marine, because it all applies to MARSOC.

Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide.


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## CrewGuy (Mar 7, 2014)

> YOU are in complete control of your future, as long as you make the right choices, excel in your MOS to include self education and hard work. That will get you a ticket to the big show one day, and establish a solid foundation required from those who succeed in this community.


 
Couldn't have said it better myself. Effort = Results its all about how bad you want it and what you will do to get it no matter what anyone tells you.
Good Luck.


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