# is one 1911 .45 enough...?



## arizonaguide (May 30, 2009)

Here's the new Springfield, now with the smaller plain Houge grips.
Pretty plain, I know.





But.....is it enough? 
I think not. 
A person needs another..to put the .22 conversion kit on (all that damn changing back and forth..unacceptable, right?)! 

And I remember a member's story about one 1911 breaking down in class, but his class (hell, maybe even his life/legacy) was saved by having a nice 1911 backup gun to immediately "stand in" until emergency gunsmithing work could be performed on the patient. Seems like a clear case of good planning saves the day, to me! 

So, I ask you, is one 1911 enough?


----------



## HoosierAnnie (May 30, 2009)

Does anyone else "see" something at the end of the barrel and back at the tip of the grip safety???

And, No one isn't enough. I personally have 2.


----------



## arizonaguide (May 30, 2009)

Yes it's a Commander length model sitting in a 1911 Gun Rug (Springfield, of course) that's made for a "full size" 1911 model. :cool: 
You don't think I'd actually lay it down on just some "random" surface, do you?
Another damn reason to get another 1911...I need one that "properly" fit's my existing Gun Rug!!!
;)

(kinda like the guy that came into the shop and said he had a holster he needed a gun for!)


----------



## arizonaguide (May 30, 2009)

*Pay it Forward item:*

Reminds me, does anyone need a set of "oversize" rubber 1911 grips as shown in the Avatar to the left? I will post them to the Pay It Forward thread tomorrow, if nobody claims.
:cool:


----------



## 8'Duece (May 30, 2009)

I can't seem to have enough 1911's   Everytime I see one I want it. :)

I currently own 5 1911's. ;)


ETA:  Look at a pair of the VZ "Operator" G10 grips for that puppy.  You wont be dissatisfied with them.  

www.vzgrips.com


----------



## EverSoLost (May 30, 2009)

This is why I own Glock's......... 

AZ, 

How would a 1911 work for my wife to keep in the Home?  The Glock's scare the pants of her I own a 22 and a 23, she hates the recoil on both.  I hear the 1911 frame absorbs recoil better than the Poly is this true?  I haven't been home much lately and I would like to get her something more "manageable" but it's hard to judge without her firing it, especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject.


----------



## dusty (May 30, 2009)

EverSoLost said:


> This is why I own Glock's.........
> 
> AZ,
> 
> How would a 1911 work for my wife to keep in the Home?  The Glock's scare the pants of her I own a 22 and a 23, she hates the recoil on both.  I hear the 1911 frame absorbs recoil better than the Poly is this true?  I haven't been home much lately and I would like to get her something more "manageable" but it's hard to judge without her firing it, especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject.




Get her a Ruger SR9.  It's cheap, it's got a thumb safety, loaded chamber indicator and safe action trigger, low recoil with 110 gr Critical Defense rounds, and shoots 18 rds. We have one in the big bedroom. I bought that one because RB talking about his M9 got me to thinking about how many rounds I put through mine and how it always made a couple holes just about where I wanted 'em. 

Only problem is she'll still have to keep her wrist stiff or that thing will stovepipe like any other autoloader.

My darling bride carries a Smitty 442 with 110 gr HP's, and the recoil doesn't bother her one smidge.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (May 31, 2009)

I wont tell you yes or no, buy what you can afford and view it as a long term investment.


----------



## HOLLiS (May 31, 2009)

EverSoLost said:


> This is why I own Glock's.........
> 
> AZ,
> 
> How would a 1911 work for my wife to keep in the Home?  The Glock's scare the pants of her I own a 22 and a 23, she hates the recoil on both.  I hear the 1911 frame absorbs recoil better than the Poly is this true?  I haven't been home much lately and I would like to get her something more "manageable" but it's hard to judge without her firing it, especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject.



First get her the book,  "Armed and Female" by Paxton Quigley.

Second,  maybe find something that will work with here.  

Part of reality is that a gun is not the best choice for everyone.  There are better options.   With guns, there are all sorts.   A 20 gauge shotgun, may be a better choice than a hand gun. (use promo loads).


My daughter is 14,  been shooting most of her life, She is about 5' 2" under 100 pounds and has no problem handling a 1911.  So there is more to your solution than just buying a gun.  Maybe take her shooting more or have her take a class.   (sometimes hubbies are not the best teachers). 

A fire arm is only as good as the person holding it, a person must be of the mind to use it when they have too, not wait or think about it.


----------



## WillBrink (May 31, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> So, I ask you, is one 1911 enough?



Good purchase. SA is always a first choice in 1911s in the price point. Personally, I think one needs at least 3 1911s: your commander sized carry 1911, your full sized government for range/courses, etc, and your back up, in case one goes down, one is in the shop having work done, etc.


----------



## koz (May 31, 2009)

EverSoLost said:


> How would a 1911 work for my wife to keep in the Home?  The Glock's scare the pants of her I own a 22 and a 23, she hates the recoil on both.  I hear the 1911 frame absorbs recoil better than the Poly is this true?  I haven't been home much lately and I would like to get her something more "manageable" but it's hard to judge without her firing it, especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject.



I hesitate to "suggest" a semi-auto pistol to anyone who isn't a "gun-person." I often tell people to get their wife a Ruger SP101 - 357.  

Here's why: If an auto jams/malfunctions/doesn't have one in the tube - the shooter must perform an immediate action drill.  More often than not, they'll panic, and simply try to pull the trigger again.  Or they may try to clear the malfunction but screw it up somehow.  Or when she forgets to take the safety off and the gun won't fire, panic sets in quite quickly.  

With the revolver, "If it doesn't go BANG, pull the trigger again" (assuming it is loaded).  

I like the .357 because you can shoot 38 spl for practice.  The .357 is a hard hitting round and more than adequate for HD.  The SP101 is heavy enough to tame the recoil for almost everyone.  Sights aren't the best but you can always throw on a set of CT grips.  You can buy the gun for less than $500 pretty much anywhere.  

The pump shotgun is also a great option, but a little harder to keep in the nightstand.  Also for wives, the mossberg cruiser is a horrible suggestion if they don't like recoil.  Pistol grip only shotguns aren't pleasant to shoot, and they'll probably try to "aim" the gun and end up with a black eye - I've seen this happen before.... :doh:

Get your wife stressed out, really angry, and then make her clear a jammed pistol.  She'll probably screw it up, then you should yell at her to hurry and stop screwing up... She'll probably throw the gun at you and you can then explain that's the level of stress she'll be under when she's under attack..


----------



## WillBrink (May 31, 2009)

koz said:


> I hesitate to "suggest" a semi-auto pistol to anyone who isn't a "gun-person." I often tell people to get their wife a Ruger SP101 - 357.



First handgun I ever owned and a great gun all around. I still have it. :)


----------



## arizonaguide (May 31, 2009)

EverSoLost said:


> AZ,
> 
> How would a 1911 work for my wife to keep in the Home? The Glock's scare the pants of her I own a 22 and a 23, she hates the recoil on both. I hear the 1911 frame absorbs recoil better than the Poly is this true? I haven't been home much lately and I would like to get her something more "manageable" but it's hard to judge without her firing it, especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject.


 
I, of course am just an "apt pupil" here amongst the land of the "real shooters" on this board. I was on the rifle team as a kid, and grew shooting a lot (hunting) up in Alaska, but those days were all single action "cowboy" guns...so this Tactical Handgun stuff has been a (fun!) learning curve for me!

That being said, let me respond with what I have learned recently, with the conclusions I have arrived at (with my own wife).

1.) the most important weapon you can have is between our ears. Having a plan is Number One. 
So what I did was create some procedures to prevent nighttime (and daytime) incursions into our home.
Double layers of locked doors/windows, Motion detection, and a Dog, ALL serve to protect us at night, as well as a "saferoom" bedroom closet (for her to go), while I take up a tactical position in the bedroom outside.

She has been through/seen some shit in her life (in PolPot's Cambodia...like babys bashed against trees and shit), and I have *sworn that protecting her, and keeping her safe and comfortable in the REST of her life is my number one mission.*

So, the plan is IF there is an alert, I wake up and grab the .38 sitting in the Serpa holster next to the bed, which I carry during the day. We go to the closet, and I hand her the .38, and I grab the 12ga that waits in the closet. (with 1 shot oo buck, then slugs). 

The closet door gets locked with her (and the .38) in it, and I take up position just outside the locked closet (behind dresser for cover) with the 12ga and the cell phone. The Bedroom door is still locked as well. The dog is also in the closet with her. I got the .38 originally for Plainclothes (concealed) Security Carry for myself, and planned on it becoming HER closet gun at night as well.

There is a lot to be said for the .38 for a wife's gun. Simple, point and shoot, and never a failure to feed issue. Pull the trigger 5 times until it quits going "bang". Last ditch effort for her, if someone has gone through me (and the 12ga.) and opened the closet door. If it's NOT me, and If they're NOT in uniform, she's gonna empty the .38 into them. :)

So the .38 has become my Plainclothes daytime CCW rig, and her nighttime saferoom rig. 158 grain Buffalo Bores, (that my friend Dusty turned me on to). I used to load the 125gr Speer Gold Dots (which are a good second choice).

2.)The .38 is also what I have been taking Defensive Pistol classes with.
I got a bunch of good wadcutter ammo, and I like the revolver (always have)...and it's good practice to also train with my CCW rig as well.

However, my boss wants me to work into Range Manager/Instructor at the new range he is building, and for that I have to be very proficient with a semi-auto as well. And, for that I like the 1911 platform in .45, in a smaller Commander length as a compromise between accuracy and concealability. 

Now, my boss, and all my advanced defensive pistol classmates (cool kids) have Kimbers. And *if* I had my true choice of ANY .45 in the world, I would actually have a duplicate of Will Brinks Commander length model made. (literally, the sweetest 1911 I've EVER seen!).

But, I'm just a poor (underpaid ;)) Gunshop employee, so I went with a third choice which was the Springfield Champion shown in my avatar.
Solid gun. And, with a duplicate with a .22 conversion I'll be able to afford to train with it. 

I plan on getting the NRA pistol instructor certs soon, as well as much further tactical training in addition to the boss' free (defensive pistol I,II, III) tacticals that I have now completed. Something to get to the next level. Also got the CCW out of the way for FREE at work. (thanks, Boss!)

I am in one of the MECCA's for Tactical Shooting here in Phoenix, and I can get Gunsite instructors (who do side classes) inexpensively at the community college here, as well as some good leads down in Tuscon. Something to take me from the current "intermediate" level, to the more Advanced level of training. 

Once I get confident enough I plan on also doing some IDPA or whatever. (Both with revolver, and with the 1911!). I've Got to put some polish on the techniques now! 

I think the .22 conversion will allow me to afford that. 
I also HAVE to start traing the wife to do more than shoot from the closet. 
SHE needs to get a better "comfort" level. 
So, the .22 J-Frame (practice for the .38), and a .22 conversion (for the 1911) will allow me to train her on *both platforms* without scaring the shit out of her (and save $$$).
That, and some laser toys for around the house! ;)
:)


----------



## HOLLiS (May 31, 2009)

AZ Guide, it is great you have a plan.   Problem I see, it generally never happens as planned.  

Sometimes,  it goes to plan C or Plan D.  

Our first line of defense is Jake the wonder Dog. 

Also on Shotgun, I am more conservative on how I stack it. 

At first it is promo loads, a blast a close range is lethal, then to Number 5 alternated with slug.   I like No 5 over 00.  Lethal with a better pattern.  Either one works.

The promo loads is to avoid over penetration.   Obviously, If I knew I was going to be hit, I would stack the rounds differently. 

I also have a SP101, great pistol. 

Those who live in populated areas, IMHO, really needs to consider over penetration and errant rounds.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (May 31, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> Those who live in populated areas, IMHO, really needs to consider over penetration and errant rounds.



Great advice! Rep.;)


----------



## 08steeda (May 31, 2009)

Yep, nothing quite so effective in close quarters as a scatter gun! Plus you need far less skill!!!

All NEWBIES who are after thier first pistol should get a wheel gun. Unless they get the proper training and range time they are just apt to fail with an auto!

Lord forbid they have a failure or a stove-pipe.


----------



## arizonaguide (May 31, 2009)

Good thoughts Hollis. I had considered #4, but decided to stick with 00 because everything in the direction of the bedroom door/hallway/rest of the house, is pointed out toward the golf course.
I have been thinking about changing to all 00 though (or number 4) just because it is SO lethal at bedroom/hallway ranges...and just a tiny bit more forgiving to aim than slugs. (although not much at that range).

I also have instituted a policy that we travel together now. She runs to the store, I GO with her. No getting lazy and sending her on her own. May sound extreme, but shit's getting too much here in the Southwest, these days. Plus, sitting in the car waiting for her (dropping/picking her up at the door) it gives me a chance to catch up on ALL the data/handouts I got from the NRA convention, and Vietnam War books I need to catch up on! I still always back into a parking spot in the corner while I'm waiting, to maintain situational awareness in the high-risk retirement community (;)) I live in!  I Read a bit, scan a bit. I don't think a person can be *too* careful, even in the good neighborhoods.


----------



## arizonaguide (May 31, 2009)

Hollis, after reading again, what is a "promo load"?
Is that one of the "safety" loads available?
Thanks for the thoughts, Bro!

You are right about plan C or D, and that plan is the .38/.45 in a serpa with us wherever we go...and ALWAYS keeping the doors locked, even when we're home relaxing. The DOG is the early warning system during the daytime also, AND he likes to run to the store with us as well. He tells me when she comes out, and alerts me to anyone getting near the car that I might have missed. 

My Dad is convinced that he's smart enough that we've trained him to bark when the light turns green, now! (cuz he did that the other day, I shit you not...but it was probably a horn he barked at). Bottom line, this dog is to freakin smart, but that's another story.
;)


----------



## HOLLiS (May 31, 2009)

Promo Loads are those or where those inexpensive 12 g or 20 Shot gun loads,  8 1/2 or 9 shot and pretty light charge.  The use to sell for about $3.00 - $3.50 a box.


----------



## 8'Duece (May 31, 2009)

HOLLiS said:


> Promo Loads are those or where those inexpensive 12 g or 20 Shot gun loads,  8 1/2 or 9 shot and pretty light charge.  The use to sell for about $3.00 - $3.50 a box.



I can't get those loads to run in my Benelli M1 Super 90 with the a full load tube and Surefire light replacement handguard.  Their just too light to feed and extract based on inertia.  :doh:

Only fully charged OO buck loads will run smoothly with this particular shotgun.


----------



## HOLLiS (Jun 1, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> I can't get those loads to run in my Benelli M1 Super 90 with the a full load tube and Surefire light replacement handguard.  Their just too light to feed and extract based on inertia.  :doh:
> 
> Only fully charged OO buck loads will run smoothly with this particular shotgun.



Can you adjust your Benelli?  I only have one auto shotgun.  I prefer, probably our of habit, pumps.


----------



## arizonaguide (Jun 1, 2009)

Got some #4 shells today, and I Put a Charles Daly 1911 Commander length on "layaway" today ($350 my cost), to use as my .22 conversion "training" gun and second .45 platform. I have to agree with Will, however, that a person really needs THREE! :cool: Number three will probably be another Springfield. :)

Also grabbed a cool little micro-1911 (LLama) in .32 today...as I had a bunch of .32 ammo, and no gun to shoot it. AAAHHHHHHH! somebody, STOP ME! Serious 1911 addiction now.
(it's just like this one..it's tiny, about PPK size!)


----------



## WillBrink (Jun 1, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Got some #4 shells today, and I Put a Charles Daly 1911 Commander length on "layaway" today ($350 my cost), to use as my .22 conversion "training" gun and second .45 platform.  I have to agree with Will, however, that a person really needs THREE! :cool: Number three will probably be another Springfield. :)



But don't you already have a commander length gun? Your next should be a government length gun. :2c:


----------



## arizonaguide (Jun 1, 2009)

That will be the (number 3) Springfield! ;)
I figured the Daly lower-half would be good (and fairly inexpensive for me) for using with an Avantage .22 slide (full time), and then get a full size for IDPA stuff, with the Commander(s) for carry and backup training, just as you said.

Plus the little LLama for deep-ccw (shorts/arizona hot WX), or the .38 also for ccw/the wife. Also need a J-frame .22 for the wife, to train her for the j-frame .38 (SW442)

I'm learning that I can justify ALL kinds of shit, if I convince myself it's for the wife/plan!


----------



## 8'Duece (Jun 1, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> That will be the (number 3) Springfield! ;)
> I figured the Daly lower-half would be good (and fairly inexpensive for me) for using with an Avantage .22 slide (full time), and then get a full size for IDPA stuff, with the Commander(s) for carry and backup training, just as you said.
> 
> Plus the little LLama for deep-ccw (shorts/arizona hot WX), or the .38 also for ccw/the wife. Also need a J-frame .22 for the wife, to train her for the j-frame .38 (SW442)
> ...



The Charles Daly EFS pistols are manufactured by ARMSCOR/Rock Island Armory. 

They have alot of the same features of the RIA Tactical Gobment pistol. 

You will enjoy it.


----------

