# New Airport Screening Procedures for the Military?



## Marauder06 (Nov 29, 2011)

Posted for your information and comment:

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_n...ouse-considers-new-tsa-rules-for-us-military?




> Members of the U.S. military flying on official orders may soon see faster security screening while traveling through the nation's airports.
> H.R. 1801, introduced in May by Rep. Chip Cravaack, R-Minn., would create new airport security screening procedures for members of the U.S. military. The U.S. House of Representatives is expected to vote today on the legislation.
> "I'm pleased this bill is coming to the floor — it is past due for so many of our nation's heroes serving our great country," Cravaack said in a statement. "Our soldiers who are putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere should be afforded extra respect when returning home to their loved ones and shouldn't be viewed as potential terrorists in our airports."
> The bill, also known as the ‘‘Risk-Based Security Screening for Members of The Armed Forces Act," would direct the Transportation Security Administration within six months to implement expedited security screening for members of the U.S. military and any family members traveling with them.
> Rep. Laura Richardson, D-Calif., a member of the Committee on Homeland Security on which Cravaack also serves, urged support of the bill. "It’s needed, it’s common sense and it’s legislation with bipartisan support,” she said.


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## policemedic (Nov 29, 2011)

Fantastic idea, but the bill reads like fluff.  I think ultimately it allows the TSA to perform the same screening, but they may expedite passage through the queue.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 29, 2011)

It's funny (not really), when I went to Ft. Benning last month, there was a MSG that was made to take off his boots and blouse. He was offended and PISSED!!!! We talked a little after. That was the first time either of us had seen that happen to someone in uniform. And it wasn't just him, they were doing it to other uniformed soldiers. The rare couple of times I have flown in uniform, I was told I didn't have to take off my boots and if the machine beeped, they did a quick wand and let me pass.


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## Viper1 (Nov 29, 2011)

My Dad used to tell me that they had special lines and LNOs in most airports for military folks during the Vietnam war.  He also remembers traveling in Class B's with ribbons and badges.  He about had a cow the first time he saw Soldiers in the airport in ACUs.  I reminded him that they were flying to and from overseas.  He then asked "why the heck are they flying civilian contract aircraft, shouldn't the USAF be doing this?" 

I personally think the TSA needs to review screening measures for all.  I'm fine with no knives, no sharp things, no hair clippers but no water from outside the screening area?  No gels/liquids larger than 3oz?  Taking off my shoes for screening?  Really?  Common now.  Who made up those rules and where is the "science", the data, to back them up.  It's ridiculous what people go through now and it's set a crazy cycle in motion.  Flight attendants and other folks from the golden age of flying say that traveler dress has gone south.  Well it's gone south because travelers (more of them since it became more affordable to fly) have to almost fully de-robe for security.  Travelers get agitated, TSA has to enforce so they get agitated.  They're agitated at each other etc etc.  See what I mean?

And quite frankly, I'm growing of what I personally see as "military exceptionalism."  I really don't care about speedy airport lines or a 10% discount from stores or a free meal on Veteran's Day.  I don't like being always singled out from the rest of the population.  I am thankful about a lot of the perks or accolades we recieve from the populace at large but to me those don't address the issue.  I'd rather be told that help is on the way in the form of new recruits (and a larger military), better pay for enlisted Soldiers, and more onus (read: encouragement) placed by civic leaders, sports leaders, business leaders, government leaders on young men and women to do their duty and serve.  For example, Justin Timberlake/Mila Kunis would have had a coup if they had shown up to the Marine Corps Ball (which they did, class act btw), with their enlistment papers in hand. (ala the likes of Jack Webb, Jimmy Stewart, Pat Tillman, Ted Williams)  But I digress.....


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## Brill (Nov 29, 2011)

Isn't this stuff usually handled by a freakin' agency memo?  Did Congress pass a law to start the liquid and shoe thing in the first place?  I would HOPE those dipshits in Congress would have better things to do but clearly I've given them too much credit.


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## Manolito (Nov 29, 2011)

Viper I understand your Dads view. I was reguired to travel into Viet Nam on a Braniff airplane wearing my ribbons and landed in the middle of a mortar attack. I think the outpouring you see today is to compensate how the Korean and Viet Nam veterans were treated when they came home. I for one am glad they are treating you as an exception because you are. Nobody except a special person takes the road of military service.
Respectfully,
Bill


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## mac21 (Nov 30, 2011)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> It's funny (not really), when I went to Ft. Benning last month, there was a MSG that was made to take off his boots and blouse. He was offended and PISSED!!!! We talked a little after. That was the first time either of us had seen that happen to someone in uniform. And it wasn't just him, they were doing it to other uniformed soldiers. The rare couple of times I have flown in uniform, I was told I didn't have to take off my boots and if the machine beeped, they did a quick wand and let me pass.


 
The airport I fly into and out of my home state is the local airport for many Airmen, as there is an Air Force base about 20 minutes away. It's no uncommon for me to see them take their boots off, but I never remember them having to take off their blouses. I've never heard a fuss from any of them. Perhaps just a bad day for the good MSG.

I was once told, the only people that have to do the random pat downs are elderly ladies with knitting needles and the military in uniform.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 30, 2011)

mac21 said:


> The airport I fly into and out of my home state is the local airport for many Airmen, as there is an Air Force base about 20 minutes away. It's no uncommon for me to see them take their boots off, but I never remember them having to take off their blouses. I've never heard a fuss from any of them. Perhaps just a bad day for the good MSG.
> 
> I was once told, the only people that have to do the random pat downs are elderly ladies with knitting needles and the military in uniform.


 

I took my boots off once in uniform and after I walked through the metal detector, I was told soldiers in uniform don't have to take them off.  The couple of times after that I didn't take off my boots and wasn't talked to at all.

I want to say I was in Phoenix when the MSG went through his troubles.  And it wasn't just him, it was the PVT behind me and another gentleman that was probably 5 people up.

I guess the biggest issue I see is consistency, or lack there of.  It seems as though each airport interprets the "rules" their own way.  But I fly in civies, so I don't mind getting treated like everyone else.


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## medicchick (Nov 30, 2011)

At Anchorage, while in uniform (not sure about orders) they were told to go to the First Class line, which get's processed through their own scanner and belt.  The regular line uses the belt when there is no one in the FC line, but once someone gets in it they go first.  Anyone with an airport ID could too though.


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## QC (Nov 30, 2011)

I think it's a good idea to fast track the mil through what is a piece of theatre anyway. Over here we've recently removed the liquid requirements of disposing of anything larger than 250ml. The threat level is still the same but it is encouraging that some restrictions have been eased. I posted a thread on the future of airport security but didn't seem to get much response, which is odd. Onsidering the thrust of the article implied there would be more, not less. 
Airport security, apart from the usual requirements, such as Customs and a state and federal presence is 24 carat horse shit. It gives the appearance of safety but is plain inconvenient.


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## Ranger Psych (Nov 30, 2011)

Viper1 said:


> No gels/liquids larger than 3oz? Taking off my shoes for screening? Really? Common now. Who made up those rules and where is the "science", the data, to back them up.


 
Betcha a dollar I could:

go to the liquor store/gun shop down the way
the hardware store next door to it
make one purchase from a mail order company

and be able to fabricate something in less than a day upon having all the supplies, that would be able to at a minimum cause an explosive decompression of an aircraft given the ability to carry a couple average size shampoo containers onboard in my carry-on.

This takes into account the suicide bomber thought process of not giving a fuck about myself, as well.

Total cost would be under $200 as well per implementation.


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## Florida173 (Nov 30, 2011)

I absolutely refuse to where a uniform while traveling.  PERSEC is very important to me.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 30, 2011)

Why is that?  The fact that you're in the military isn't classified.  As far as I know there hasn't been an attack targeting a uniformed servicemember on a domestic US carrier since... well, ever.  

I'm glad to see servicemembers in uniform at airports, it helps break down the distance between those in uniform and those whom we serve, and helps remind people there's a war on.  I also think it's good for the individual troops to see how much the people are behind them.


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## CDG (Nov 30, 2011)

Florida173 said:


> I absolutely refuse to where a uniform while traveling. PERSEC is very important to me.


 
I always felt uncomfortable wearing a uniform out in public. I also used to carry my military ID, but I would never use it. I defaulted to my drivers license for getting into bars and whatnot.


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## CDG (Nov 30, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Why is that? The fact that you're in the military isn't classified. As far as I know there hasn't been an attack targeting a uniformed servicemember on a domestic US carrier since... well, ever.
> 
> I'm glad to see servicemembers in uniform at airports, it helps break down the distance between those in uniform and those whom we serve, and helps remind people there's a war on. I also think it's good for the individual troops to see how much the people are behind them.


 
I think it makes you too much of a target. There may have never been an attack targeting a uniformed servicemember on a US carrier, but there are other ways to be targeted. Anti-war protestors, guys trying to prove how tough they are by starting shit with a military guy, etc. I would prefer to be the grey man.


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## pardus (Nov 30, 2011)

I made a post a while back about something that happened to me. I was in civis departing from NYC, I showed my Mil ID to TSA. They made a big fuss. treated me like a hero and rushed me through to the front of the line. Then I refused to go through the scanner and they had to pat me down. Ridiculous.

I think anyone showing Mil ID regardless of if they are wearing uniform or not should be expedited through security.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 30, 2011)

pardus said:


> I made a post a while back about something that happened to me. I was in civis departing from NYC, I showed my Mil ID to TSA. They made a big fuss. treated me like a hero and rushed me through to the front of the line. Then I refused to go through the scanner and they had to pat me down. Ridiculous.
> 
> I think anyone showing Mil ID regardless of if they are wearing uniform or not should be expedited through security.


 
I don't mind waiting in line.  In fact, I get to the airport extra early so I can wait in line.  If there are no lines, I get to people watch.  I just don't like being called out and be made the focus of attention.  Thankfully I travel in civies all the time now, though that doesn't always matter.  I've been called out twice by TSA. 

The first time I was in uniform and got called out (the TSA person was probably 100 feet away yelling for me) to be expedited through security. 

The other time I was in civies and seated on the plane.  I had showed my .mil ID and orders to check in and after boarding, they announced there were a couple of first class seats open for .mil types.  I was happy in the back of the plane but then the lady that checked my luggage came back (well, within four or five rows, and while pointing at me, shouted something to the effect of "Sir, I know you're military!  Come up to first class.")  Really lady???  I appreciate the gesture, but if I didn't move 5 minutes ago when the announcement was made, I probably don't want to be outed in front of everyone else on the plane.   Thanks for trying though.


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## Ranger Psych (Nov 30, 2011)

I traveled home for winter block leave in my A's pretty much every year.   Then again, I had a 6" folder in my pocket and just walked through the metal detectors with no wanding after showing ID and leave papers.  This was back in 2000 though.

I saw no reason to hide my military status/service/etc, and to be honest it served 2 purposes. The people I wouldn't have wanted to be bothered by stayed the fuck away from me, and those who were cool, would strike up conversations and generally make the time spent on the plane or in the airport more enjoyable.


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## pardus (Nov 30, 2011)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> I don't mind waiting in line. In fact, I get to the airport extra early so I can wait in line.


 
You're a fucking weirdo! 

I hate waiting in line despite my heritage lol
The reason I show my ID is to get through the BS as quickly and painlessly as possible.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 30, 2011)

LOL! To clarify, I get there early in case the line is longer than usual. I don't mind waiting in line and I enjoy people watching. I laugh at all the hot heads that get frustrated in line. Getting frustrated doesn't make it move quicker. People need to just deal with it and save their aggravation for the grope session.


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## Brooklynben (Nov 30, 2011)

pardus said:


> I made a post a while back about something that happened to me. I was in civis departing from NYC, I showed my Mil ID to TSA. They made a big fuss. treated me like a hero and rushed me through to the front of the line. Then I refused to go through the scanner and they had to pat me down. Ridiculous.
> 
> I think anyone showing Mil ID regardless of if they are wearing uniform or not should be expedited through security.


GOOD MOVE; 
The TSA Scanners are definitely not safe.  There have been no real studies done to the long term effects, so any suggestion that these scanners are safe is an uneducated guess - at best - and more often a bold face lie.  

I've read analysis's from MD's and medical researchers who do study the effects of the frequencies and radiations on healthy living tissue and all of these experts agree that the scans simply can not be 'safe'.   There is now mounting evidence to support their conclusions;
(1) They TSA has tried to bury reports that increasing numbers of their own people who regularly work close to these scanners have statistically reported a much higher instance of illness and the onset of cancers then their co-workers.  TSA is now rotating their people in and out of these positions close to the scanners.
(2) These risks are real enough that the EU has now banned the use of all these scanners in their airports.

So DON'T GET SCANNED.  Pardus says he actually looks forward to having his junk played with.


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## LibraryLady (Nov 30, 2011)

Brooklynben said:


> ... Pardus says he actually looks forward to having his junk played with.


 

And you would know this how? :-"

The one time I got called out and groped, the poor girl was more embarrassed than I was. Especially since I had accidently left a quarter in my jeans pocket, so she loudly proclaimed she was gettin interested in "my left leg, my left leg only". I kinda had to laugh about all the rather obvious precautions she was taking to make it as professional as possible.  Asked her if she got paid enough to do this and she said, "not nearly enough."  

So look at it from the side of the gropers - do you honestly think 99% of them are enjoying it?  

LL


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## TLDR20 (Nov 30, 2011)

If people want to travel in uniform I am all for it. If I see a young PVT in uniform getting something bought for him it makes me happy. Soldiers should be proud. Also the PERSEC thing is a bit of a joke. I mean what does your hair look like? With a mil haircut you are one of a few things: A redneck(threat), a cop(threat), in the military(threat) or ex-mil(threat). (Threat) meaning that someone will target you. So think about that when you aren't wearing your uniform. I can pick people trying to not look mil from a mile away. So could any trained terrorist or threat while flying.


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## Scotth (Nov 30, 2011)

policemedic said:


> Fantastic idea, but the bill reads like fluff. I think ultimately it allows the TSA to perform the same screening, but they may expedite passage through the queue.


 
My thoughts exactly.  They usually have flight crew/employee screening lines in bigger airports and they will probably just make those shorter lines available to the military.  When I flew as an airline employee with airport credentials that allowed me to avoid security check points I still had to go through the same screening procedures when I was flying, even in the expedited lines.

But a little VIP treatment for the troops, I'm all for it.


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## Florida173 (Nov 30, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Why is that? The fact that you're in the military isn't classified. As far as I know there hasn't been an attack targeting a uniformed servicemember on a domestic US carrier since... well, ever.
> 
> I'm glad to see servicemembers in uniform at airports, it helps break down the distance between those in uniform and those whom we serve, and helps remind people there's a war on. I also think it's good for the individual troops to see how much the people are behind them.


 
The fact that I am in the military is no one's business.  The fact that I've been on five full deployments is no one's business.  I'm in the military because I enjoy doing it and I benefit from it professionally and physically.  The second it isn't fun I'm done with it.  It is for completely selfish reasons.

If other people want to receive praise for shit, have at it.  I'm all to happy to allow them to get more than they deserve. Besides, I am happy not to be a target when something does happen.

Uniformed service member on a domestic flight?  No.  Military on international flights, Yes.  I will always travel on my tourist passport if I can, or at least have it with me while required to travel on my brown passport.


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## Florida173 (Nov 30, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Why is that? The fact that you're in the military isn't classified


 

PERSEC doesn't have anything to do with being classified, and OPSEC only deals with Unclass.


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## medicchick (Dec 1, 2011)

LibraryLady said:


> And you would know this how? :-"
> 
> The one time I got called out and groped, the poor girl was more embarrassed than I was. Especially since I had accidently left a quarter in my jeans pocket, so she loudly proclaimed she was gettin interested in "my left leg, my left leg only". I kinda had to laugh about all the rather obvious precautions she was taking to make it as professional as possible. Asked her if she got paid enough to do this and she said, "not nearly enough."
> 
> ...


 
The pat down when I moved to Georgia was...interesting.  My plane was leaving early (unannounced) and my underwire was setting off the wand, so the TSA gal told me "Well just take it off and we'll continue"...right in the screening area, not in an office or anything.  I declined and the flight crew came looking for me since the plane was leaving.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 1, 2011)

Florida173 said:


> The fact that I am in the military is no one's business. The fact that I've been on five full deployments is no one's business. I'm in the military because I enjoy doing it and I benefit from it professionally and physically. The second it isn't fun I'm done with it. It is for completely selfish reasons.
> 
> If other people want to receive praise for shit, have at it. I'm all to happy to allow them to get more than they deserve. Besides, I am happy not to be a target when something does happen.
> 
> Uniformed service member on a domestic flight? No. Military on international flights, Yes. I will always travel on my tourist passport if I can, or at least have it with me while required to travel on my brown passport.


 
I waited for a while to respond to this post because I wasn't sure if I was reading it right.

I disagree with the statement that it is "no one's business" that you are in the military.  As a servicemember you are in effect a public official; you act on the public's behalf and the public serves and is served by you.  It's all of our business who carries weapons and doles out violence on our behalf.  With certain exceptions, I think it is a legitimate public right to know.  That said, if you want to keep your service to yourself... ok, fine.

But I can't believe that you would actually say that you are in the military for "selfish reasons."  I have never in 16+ years heard a professional Soldier say something like that.  If the post I quoted above is truly representative of who you are as a Soldier, then I'm glad you're not interacting with the public.  In fact, you should consider hanging up the uniform permanently.  I also take issue with you characterizing servicemembers who wear uniforms on domestic flights as somehow trolling for an ego stroke.  Most of the people I've spoken to in uniform at airports fall into one of two categories:  1) trainees and service academy cadets and 2) servicemembers travelling back and forth to combat zones.  "More than they deserve?"  I don't think we can praise our servicemembers in those two categories enough...

I'm really hoping that your comments were either misinterpreted or that you would like to clarify them somewhat.


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## Florida173 (Dec 1, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> I waited for a while to respond to this post because I wasn't sure if I was reading it right.
> 
> I disagree with the statement that it is "no one's business" that you are in the military. As a servicemember you are in effect a public official; you act on the public's behalf and the public serves and is served by you. It's all of our business who carries weapons and doles out violence on our behalf. With certain exceptions, I think it is a legitimate public right to know. That said, if you want to keep your service to yourself... ok, fine.
> 
> ...


 
I'll be happy to clarify my comments. 

All of my authorities end once I enter this country, so I am in no way a public official. You want to praise the public official, thank a police officer.  They do more on a daily basis than the vast majority of support slugs out there.   Again, I'm missing where it matters if people know what I do occasionally unless I was looking for some sort of praise.  My ego doesn't need it.

How would me being in the military for selfish reasons have any effect to say that I should consider hanging up my uniform?  I didn't join the military after September 11th to fight for my country, there was nothing going on except my trips to the Balkans before then.  People have always said that they had joined for the wrong reasons, but stayed in for the right ones.  If people joined and stayed in for selfless reasons there would be no need to bribe them with cash bonuses and educational benefits.  The second people become useless in the military should be the determining factor if they should stay in or not, not their idealistic selfless service.  I'm only in till it's not fun any more.  Maybe I just missed the koolaid somewhere down the line.

Service members wearing uniform on domestic flights trolling for an ego stroke?  Happens all the time, but I'll accept that it's an exception from the common reasons that you've said.  I was meaning to say that I'm happy to give any praise that I would get to someone else, regardless if it is due or not.  There are plenty of soldiers like SSG Ronghi out there too...

I'll just stay the quiet professional and wait in line at the airports with the rest of my colleagues, and the sheep.


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## Manolito (Dec 2, 2011)

TSA appears to be improving hiring practices. Agent stops 17 year old for a embossed gun design on her purse. Held her long enough to miss her flight. They contend it could be considered a replica of a weapon. She was on her return trip going out no problem at all. TSA says they are standing behind their decision.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/Teen-s...-purse/-/475880/4858586/-/qijcv5/-/index.html


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## policemedic (Dec 2, 2011)

Disband the TSA.  I keep saying it, and nothing has yet changed my opinion.


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## pardus (Dec 2, 2011)

policemedic said:


> Disband the TSA. I keep saying it, and nothing has yet changed my opinion.


 
Yep, they are fucking monkey's with badges who swallow up funding that could be better used elsewhere.


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## Brooklynben (Dec 3, 2011)

pardus said:


> Yep, they are fucking monkey's with badges who swallow up funding that could be better used elsewhere.


Get ready, it may get even better; there's talk in the White House of having the TSA join the Unions!


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## policemedic (Dec 4, 2011)

pardus said:


> Yep, they are fucking monkey's with badges who swallow up funding that could be better used elsewhere.


 
Hey- I happen to LIKE monkeys.


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## Manolito (Dec 4, 2011)

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=697&sid=2353407
Just a matter of which Union gets the 44K new members. Are they going to be Union is a done deal.
You have to understand without TSA a lot of White House officials wouldn't have a sex life.
Bill


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## Etype (Dec 7, 2011)

They should hire a handful of Special Ops types to do a red cell style mission against the TSA and just pick them apart. My personal favorite is the (I'm sure extremely expensive) 'sniffer' machines. My wife got pulled for a random check and they swabbed one of my civilian bags that had stored det cord, time fuze, TNT, and C4 no less than 3 months before- NOTHING!!! Hilarious, a bomb dog would've picked it up no problem- especially in the non-military environment of an airport.  Random, invasive sniffer machine tests are replacing a chocolate lab passively standing off to the side- brilliant.  I guess they feel the dazzling facade of technology is a deterrent.


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## medicchick (Dec 7, 2011)

They tried to nail me once with that machine.  They swabbed a properly searched and identified as carrying firearms bag with ammo, then told me I "needed to come with them, I bag popped hot for explosives/gun powder".   I just pointed to the paperwork that was in there with it.


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## SpitfireV (Dec 7, 2011)

Etype said:


> They should hire a handful of Special Ops types to do a red cell style mission against the TSA and just pick them apart. My personal favorite is the (I'm sure extremely expensive) 'sniffer' machines. My wife got pulled for a random check and they swabbed one of my civilian bags that had stored det cord, time fuze, TNT, and C4 no less than 3 months before- NOTHING!!! Hilarious, a bomb dog would've picked it up no problem- especially in the non-military environment of an airport. Random, invasive sniffer machine tests are replacing a chocolate lab passively standing off to the side- brilliant. I guess they feel the dazzling facade of technology is a deterrent.


 
Was that stuff totally sealed up though? The machines often won't pick up stuff that's factory sealed. Example: once had to swab the ute that the boss of the EOD drove around in, which carried explosives possibly more than most vehicles in the country...nothing.


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## Etype (Dec 8, 2011)

It had prepped charges in it.  Just duct taped.  I would think that would be enough to set the machines off, as it would be enough to set of a dog's nose.


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