# Hate for ACU?



## WillardKurtz (Jan 21, 2008)

Why does the majority on the forum seem to hate the ACU's?


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## pardus (Jan 21, 2008)

Put a chem light on your forehead and stalk the enemy it night, you'll know what we mean.

WTF does it blend to? Other ACU thats about it...

It's not terrible in desert but not as good as the cam it replaced and no-where near the USMC desert cam which is supurb IMO and thats it at it's best for fucks sake!

It's a general's wet dream to leave his legacy and he did, the biggest asshole to impliment a combat uniform for the US Army ever! Well done sir you shit bag! 

When the Military developed multicam at the same time and then adopted ACU? I would charge that idiot and strip his pension for that. :2c:


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## WillardKurtz (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh really, how does the multicam feel comfort wise compared to the ACU? Just asking because a good buddy of mine in the NG said the ACU's are way more comfortable than the BDU's.


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2008)

Who gives a fuck if its comfy???

If neon pink shirts were comfy would you mate wear them in combat?

Jesus


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## RackMaster (Jan 22, 2008)

How old is your "good buddy"? How much experience does he have wearing either BDU's or ACU's? I'm sure your buddy has way more experience and knowledge than any one on here.


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## WillardKurtz (Jan 22, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Who gives a fuck if its comfy???
> 
> If neon pink shirts were comfy would you mate wear them in combat?
> 
> Jesus



Yeah he might, really he fucking dresses like he was color blind.



gdamadg said:


> How old is your "good buddy"? How much experience does he have wearing either BDU's or ACU's? I'm sure your buddy has way more experience and knowledge than any one on here.


No I was not saying at all that he is in any way more knowledgeable than anyone here in fact he is not,but that is what he said. I was just wondering and trying to keep the convo going.:)


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2008)

My friend, being a soldier is VERY uncomfortable, it sucks!

But by accepting that job you know you will have to sacrifice comfort to do the job.

Do you think carrying your body weight in a pack is comfy or not sleeping or eating for days on end is comfy?

There is an old Army saying... "food is a privilege and sleep is a luxury!"

TRUST ME it's true!!!


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## RackMaster (Jan 22, 2008)

WillardKurtz said:


> No I was not saying at all that he is in any way more knowledgeable than anyone here in fact he is not,but that is what he said. I was just wondering and trying to keep the convo going.:)



If your trying to keep the conversation going, you might want to look at how you direct your statements.  Starting something with "Oh really", comes off arrogant.  Just trying to give you some advice. ;)


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## WillardKurtz (Jan 22, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> My friend, being a soldier is VERY uncomfortable, it sucks!
> 
> But by accepting that job you know you will have to sacrifice comfort to do the job.
> 
> ...


 Lol, I can understand that I just want to know all I can about this is all.



gdamadg said:


> If your trying to keep the conversation going, you might want to look at how you direct your statements.  Starting something with "Oh really", comes off arrogant.  Just trying to give you some advice. ;)



I really did not mean it like that I meant it more in suprise, not arrogants. I hate those that are overly arrogant and strive to be a humble person when ever I can.


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2008)

Bottom line kurtz, get used to suffering and overcoming it.


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## Boondocksaint375 (Jan 22, 2008)

We have a billion ACU and multi cam threads, you might want to use the search feature and read up on it.


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## phridum (Jan 22, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> There is an old Army saying... "food is a privilege and sleep is a luxury!"



I disagree...

They aren't good for you, they are a crutch!


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 22, 2008)

phridum said:


> ...they are a crutch!



yes.  I'll take two.


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## demo18c (Jan 24, 2008)

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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> WTF does it blend to? Other ACU thats about it...
> ...



Well, I did see a pic of a guy in ACUs on a couch...


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## Boondocksaint375 (Jan 24, 2008)




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## pardus (Jan 24, 2008)

:eek: :doh:  lol


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## pardus (Jan 24, 2008)

This are the offical PR pictures from here the damn things don't even blend in on these pictures.


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## RackMaster (Jan 24, 2008)

How the fuck are those little tabs of velcro supposed to keep your shirt closed?  :uhh:  Repetitive washes, use and it's fucked.


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## pardus (Jan 24, 2008)

The shirts have zips.


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## RackMaster (Jan 24, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> The shirts have zips.



Gay!  More noise.   I like our old fashioned buttons and strings to pull in the waist and bottom.  lol  If you get grabbed, your zipper busts and all you have is gay noisy velcro. lol


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## pardus (Jan 24, 2008)

Velcro sucks ass IMO, zips arent too bad, you do have to use them quietly though.


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## Paddlefoot (Jan 24, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Well, I did see a pic of a guy in ACUs on a couch...



The only thing missing is Marisa Tomei giving the guy on the couch shit...

http://www.wavlist.com/movies/061/mcv-blend.wav


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## QC (Jan 24, 2008)

SEEN...no flowers on the cams.


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## demo18c (Jan 26, 2008)

[

posting pic wasnt approves...


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## Rabid Badger (Jan 26, 2008)

*Boots...*

and lovin those Merrills (COS) footwear...another part of lookin cool but more importantly, they're more comfortable than any issue boots.......imo......lol..:2c:....;)


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## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2008)

razor_baghdad said:


> and lovin those Merrills (COS) footwear...another part of lookin cool but more importantly, they're more comfortable than any issue boots.......imo......lol..:2c:....;)


 
Almost all my personal footwear and non standard duty footwear are Merrills, I find they fit my feet the best and are fucking comfy.   My standard duty boots are not the normal standard. ;)  They're light and fairly comfortable, good garrison boots for all seasons. 

Rocky 8" Men's Portland Lace-to-Toe


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## pardus (Jan 26, 2008)

demo18c said:


> A way better option than ACUs plus they blend in well to most environments.......and they look cool;). For a while i was trying to figure out what the tabs in the pockets are for. Figured out you can adjust the height of the knee pads..



Whats with the gloves? :uhh:


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## Pete031 (Jan 26, 2008)

gdamadg said:


> Almost all my personal footwear and non standard duty footwear are Merrills, I find they fit my feet the best and are fucking comfy.   My standard duty boots are not the normal standard. ;)  They're light and fairly comfortable, good garrison boots for all seasons.
> 
> Rocky 8" Men's Portland Lace-to-Toe



I wear these in Canada... And I have a nice pair of Lowa's for overseas.
As for the Gloves.... Mechanix are just really decent gloves. Alot of dudes wear them. All of the ones I have seen, have writing and bright colors all over them.


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## demo18c (Jan 26, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Whats with the gloves? :uhh:



Throughout an  school i found out that mechanix gloves are one of the best shooting gloves FOR ME. I had problems with grip and feel with other gloves. On the flat range when transitioning from primary to secondary my draw was faster and i was on target without any slippage.<<<is that a word...lol... For me i can feel the slack being taking out as i presented. Plus they are like only 24 dollars. Before leaving the States I tried to find the all black ones but couldnt find them. If i was in the woods sneaking and peaking i wouldnt wear them.


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## soraflair (Jan 27, 2008)

Compair this (MARPAT) 





To ACU





Which blends in better? Which makes less noise?  (Marpat still uses buttons)


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## car (Jan 27, 2008)

soraflair said:


> Which blends in better?



Well, certainly not the dude profiling himself on the horizon.


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## pardus (Jan 27, 2008)

demo18c said:


> Throughout an  school i found out that mechanix gloves are one of the best shooting gloves FOR ME. I had problems with grip and feel with other gloves. On the flat range when transitioning from primary to secondary my draw was faster and i was on target without any slippage.<<<is that a word...lol... For me i can feel the slack being taking out as i presented. Plus they are like only 24 dollars. Before leaving the States I tried to find the all black ones but couldnt find them. If i was in the woods sneaking and peaking i wouldnt wear them.



Roger that, I might check some out for myself, cheers.



soraflair said:


> Compair this (MARPAT)
> 
> 
> Which blends in better? Which makes less noise?  (Marpat still uses buttons)



I think the desert MARPAT is the best desert cam out there at the moment. :2c:


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## 275ANGER! (Jan 27, 2008)

Hate...Hate...Hate!  I was confused :confused: when we got a care manuel/card with the ACU issue, what a waste of money!  But I must say the Tan Beret looks good with the uniform.




> Reports of low durability may not take into account that the designed wear-life of the ACU is only six months



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Combat_Uniform


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## surgicalcric (Jan 27, 2008)

You guys really need to give the velcro=noise subject a rest.  This subject has been beaten to death here.  

Crip


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## pardus (Jan 27, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> You guys really need to give the velcro=noise subject a rest.  This subject has been beaten to death here.
> 
> Crip



I thought I seen it still breathing, just making sure ;)

Operation in a jungle environment were noise discipline is second to none and hearing velco break that discipline time and time again I think it's an important issue.
Admittedly one that isn't going to change while there are bureaucrats issuing the gear, ah well...


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## car (Jan 27, 2008)

275ANGER! said:


> Hate...Hate...Hate!  I was confused :confused: when we got a care manuel/card with the ACU issue, what a waste of money!  But I must say the Tan Beret looks good with the uniform.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, you guys all look _fabulous _in the tan beret...


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## RackMaster (Jan 27, 2008)

Pete031 said:


> I wear these in Canada... And I have a nice pair of Lowa's for overseas.
> As for the Gloves.... Mechanix are just really decent gloves. Alot of dudes wear them. All of the ones I have seen, have writing and bright colors all over them.



I've heard the Blackhawks are really good boots.  When I was sent out to the local supplier to try on different boots, they weren't available.  I tried on a pair of Magnum Stealth's at the time as well but they didn't feel like they would give me enough support for ankle roll and it felt like my foot was always sliding forward in the boot.  The Rocky's give me a comfortable, solid fit and for use in garrison or mild field use they are great.



pardus762 said:


> I think the desert MARPAT is the best desert cam out there at the moment. :2c:



It is an excellent desert cam but I think it might be on par with our desert CADPAT, not better. ;)  lol



car said:


> Well, you guys all look _fabulous _in the tan beret...



The tan beret always looks good and gives you that little extra something that helps you stand taller and straighter no matter what uniform you wear.


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## surgicalcric (Jan 27, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> ...Operation in a jungle environment were noise discipline is second to none and hearing velco break that discipline time and time again I think it's an important issue...



I am in the jungle where I am and my mod'd BDUs have velcro on the arm pockets.  If I am worried about the noise I should probably have my finger on the trigger instead of in a pocket...

Crip


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## pardus (Jan 27, 2008)

Night routine is the main time it will be an issue, and in really close country you have no idea what is 6ft in front of you. Pers must be absolutely silent the entire time you are tactical from the moment you are dropped off to the moment you reembark.

I don't know how you guys operate so you might have more leeway than our way, do you guys still patrol with transistor radios?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 27, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> You guys really need to give the velcro=noise subject a rest.  This subject has been beaten to death here.
> 
> Crip





pardus762 said:


> Operation in a jungle environment were noise discipline is second to none and hearing velco break that discipline time and time again I think it's an important issue...





surgicalcric said:


> I am in the jungle where I am and my mod'd BDUs have velcro on the arm pockets.  If I am worried about the noise I should probably have my finger on the trigger instead of in a pocket...
> 
> Crip



I think that pretty much sums it up.  plus, I'd also like to point out -

While guys like Crip are in the jungle doing what they do, the vast majority of us (being in the conventional forces) are in the desert, or in the urban environment.  while I agree the pattern isn't the best, they already KNOW we're there.  no need for noise discipline in a crowded Baghdad/Kabul Street.  and Crip, I couldn't have said it better, I'm going to use that last quote.


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

Being a soldier is like being an olympic athlete, its the small tweaks to performance that make the difference between winning and loosing.

Like I say, I dont know how you guys operate in the J, maybe that noise is acceptable to you.
We used pruning shears instead of machetes because of the noise for example, no talking beyond quiet whispers and then only when nessasary.
Jungle was our thing, we were past masters of that, (actually it's lucky because its about all we could do lol).
Not judging just my point of view based on my experience.
Every unit and Army is different and has their thing and thier focus.


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> I think that pretty much sums it up.  plus, I'd also like to point out -
> 
> While guys like Crip are in the jungle doing what they do, the vast majority of us (being in the conventional forces) are in the desert, or in the urban environment.  while I agree the pattern isn't the best, they already KNOW we're there.  no need for noise discipline in a crowded Baghdad/Kabul Street.  and Crip, I couldn't have said it better, I'm going to use that last quote.



I think you missed the point of my comment, noise discipline in the jungle has nothing to with close contact with the enemy and being ready to fire at all!

(Replying to Crip also)

When you are getting undressed to get into your bag at night you must be silent, you cant be ripping velco willy nilly, clanging mess tins, coughing, cocking weapons etc...
You arent on guard for the enemy to walk around the corner, that just isnt what this is about.
Noise disipline is 24/7 even when sleeping.
Hope that comes across as I mean it too.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> I think you missed the point of my comment....



it's entirely possible.  it's just not something I'm used to practicing, but then, I'm with MPs, and I came from Aviation....  "noise/light discipline?  what the fuck is that???" it makes sense what you're saying - I just don't think it's applicable in many/most cases.  the ones where it is, they have a fix for that.


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> I just don't think it's applicable in many/most cases.



True, bummer for the guys that it does though.
Like saying most of the Army doesnt need fire retardant clothes so fuck the airborne guys. ;)



HeloMedic1171 said:


> the ones where it is, they have a fix for that.



They do? Please tell me im interested to know.

( im reading my post and it's kinda sounding like Im being an ass but I want you to know im not, just the way its coming out so you know)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Well my opinion is that the ACU’s are the biggest mistake the army has made since the war. It is noisy, the color sucks, the boots suck in wet environment. The damn thing cost too much, and it does not last at all. I have gone through 5 sets of ACU’s, and the last 2 years I was a freaking small arms instructor. Meaning I did not do shit, other then blab my mouth and teach people how to shoot. I still have 3 sets of DCU’s and 6 sets of BDU’s that are still serviceable… I hate the pockets, I hate the pin on badges, and I hate the patches. I do not know how many times my flag fell off, or I could not find my fucking nametapes. Even better, you put it together for the next day, get up slap it on. Speed off to post b/c your drunk and late, and you get there just in time not to get yelled at by 1sgt. In addition, what did you do, garbed the wrong fucking top. Now you do not have your patches, name tapes, flag, or badges. Moreover, you have to give a class in 20 min…:doh:

How about when you are in the woods, and you snag the Velcro on every fucking tree limb. On the other hand, when you are laying in an OP and right when it’s time to STFU and be quiet, the FO opens the arm pocket to get his map. All b/c he saw it on Tears of the sun… “basterdo you lied to me” :doh:

The ACU uniform sucks…….:bleh: I want the USMC design in multicam…

Okay excuse the bad language and the rant, back to reading I go…:)


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> True, bummer for the guys that it does though.
> Like saying most of the Army doesnt need fire retardant clothes so fuck the airborne guys. ;)



absolutely - though that's not a good way to do business, I agree.  but that's why us bird-riding folk and the dirt darts get extra cool shit like nomex and lightweight air-warrior gear.  because we need(ed) it.  but the rest of those that walk, crawl, or drive don't, so they need not wear it and the govt. need not spend the extra money.

oh, and so you know - depending on your division, you get fire retardant shit regardless of position.  I'm in 3rd ID (mech), and I have fucking tanker's coveralls.  great for fixing my car or the truck, worthless in a HMMWV as a medic.  (I'm in an MP Co). 



pardus762 said:


> They do? Please tell me im interested to know.
> 
> ( im reading my post and it's kinda sounding like Im being an ass but I want you to know im not, just the way its coming out so you know)



No worries, I've posted here enough to know when you're being an asshole.  usually I'm laughing at whoever the poor bastard is on the other end.  

as for the fix -   the ones where it matters are mainly SOF.  Rangers, PJs, Army SF, SEALs, the like.  they wear pretty much whatever they want.  case in point - I never see SOF guys wearing their ACH's or any sort of kevlar....  I wonder if they get issued them, even, while the rest of us have them glued to our noggins.  they do things their way - because that's what works best for them.  Also, SOF guys are in the minority of people still wearing BDUs, or DCUs, and are the only ones wearing Multicam uniforms.  none of us conventional guys are getting that stuff.  it's one of the operational "perks" of being SOF.  you wear what suits the mission best, not what makes you look like the other 169 swingin' D***S in your company.  Damn,  I hate the MP corps.  :)  hope this helps.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> Well my opinion is that the ACU’s are the biggest mistake the army has made since the war. It is noisy, the color sucks, the boots suck in wet environment. The damn thing cost too much, and it does not last at all. I have gone through 5 sets of ACU’s, and the last 2 years I was a freaking small arms instructor. Meaning I did not do shit, other then blab my mouth and teach people how to shoot. I still have 3 sets of DCU’s and 6 sets of BDU’s that are still serviceable… I hate the pockets, I hate the pin on badges, and I hate the patches. I do not know how many times my flag fell off, or I could not find my fucking nametapes. Even better, you put it together for the next day, get up slap it on. Speed off to post b/c your drunk and late, and you get there just in time not to get yelled at by 1sgt. In addition, what did you do, garbed the wrong fucking top. Now you do not have your patches, name tapes, flag, or badges. Moreover, you have to give a class in 20 min…:doh:
> 
> How about when you are in the woods, and you snag the Velcro on every fucking tree limb. On the other hand, when you are laying in an OP and right when it’s time to STFU and be quiet, the FO opens the arm pocket to get his map. All b/c he saw it on Tears of the sun… “basterdo you lied to me” :doh:
> 
> ...



i think that, right there, explains how I feel about the ACU.  it's comfy, and I like the wash and wear aspect, but the pattern blows goat nuts, and I don't like the velcro because it doesn't last.  i know 6 months is the service life... but jeebus fuck, I have BDUs that are as old as I am, handed down to me from relatives.  I'd rather have a uniform that lasts and functions well, than one that "looks cool".  i think if I hear one more FNG PVT say "i like 'em cuz they look cool" I'm gonna make him eat my nametapes/patches.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> but the rest of those that walk, crawl, or drive don't, so they need not wear it and the govt. need not spend the extra money.



I have two good (Infantry) friends, who have spent a lot of time in BAMC burn unit. That would strongly disagree with you on this one.:2c:


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> No worries, I've posted here enough to know when you're being an asshole.  usually I'm laughing at whoever the poor bastard is on the other end.
> 
> as for the fix -   the ones where it matters are mainly SOF.  Rangers, PJs, Army SF, SEALs, the like.  they wear pretty much whatever they want.  case in point - I never see SOF guys wearing their ACH's or any sort of kevlar....  I wonder if they get issued them, even, while the rest of us have them glued to our noggins.  they do things their way - because that's what works best for them.  Also, SOF guys are in the minority of people still wearing BDUs, or DCUs, and are the only ones wearing Multicam uniforms.  none of us conventional guys are getting that stuff.  it's one of the operational "perks" of being SOF.  you wear what suits the mission best, not what makes you look like the other 169 swingin' D***S in your company.  Damn,  I hate the MP corps.  :)  hope this helps.



Oh really motherfucker well fuck you and while you're at it get done and give me 10 million!!!!  ROTFL!

Understood cheers.

LOL I wore a helmet about 6 times in 6 years if I was lucky.
If Im deployed with any choice I'll take multicam in a BDU format (as sold on www.brigadequartermasters.com


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> I have two good (Infantry) friends, who have spent a lot of time in BAMC burn unit. That would strongly disagree with you on this one.:2c:



sorry, I didn't make myself clear - I meant on the air warrior gear, specifically.  they didn't need that... they needed my coveralls I'm not using.  My apologies to them and to you.   nomex is something we should all have.  hopefully the new advanced combat shirt will become a reality and we'll all be better off.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> sorry, I didn't make myself clear - I meant on the air warrior gear, specifically.  they didn't need that... they needed my coveralls I'm not using.  My apologies to them and to you.   nomex is something we should all have.  hopefully the new advanced combat shirt will become a reality and we'll all be better off.




No worries, we are tracking...


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Oh really motherfucker well fuck you and while you're at it get done and give me 10 million!!!!  ROTFL!
> 
> Understood cheers.
> 
> ...



one sheepfucker, two sheepfucker, three sheepfucker......

ROTF......

I saw those, and I drooled.  I'm too much of a gear-geek for my own good.  I'd buy them if I could come up with a good use for them besides paintball and off-roading, as I really don't hunt enough to warrant them.  they sure do look like they'd fit the bill, though.  need a kevlar?  or will you get one issued?  I have 2 PASGT's at my Mom's I need to do something with.  the Oregon Aero kits make them quite lovely to use.


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> one sheepfucker, two sheepfucker, three sheepfucker......
> 
> ROTF......



I kell you...




HeloMedic1171 said:


> I have 2 PASGT's at my Mom's I need to do something with.  the Oregon Aero kits make them quite lovely to use.



What size? I do need one, need a medium so I can put pads in it. 
WTF is a Oregon Aero kit?


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

Would obviously prefer a MICH pot if anyone has one but will take what I can get, had enough head trauma to last until about next week....


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

the kits are here:

http://www.oregonaero.com/p81_2001.html

good stuff.  THE most comfortable helmet pads, period.  this basically turns a PASGT helmet into an ACH.  the only difference being, you have protection over your ears, wheras the ACH does not have such shielding.

and I believe I have 2 mediums.


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## surgicalcric (Jan 28, 2008)

OMG where to even start this reply...

Velcro, again:  If the argument on the uniform comes down to noisy velcro then we should remove it from all of our pouches and other kit and while we are at it large zippers can be just as noisy if opened quickly so they should be removed.  This noise issue comes down to Situational Awareness, not the method used to secure your blouse.  I make more noise opening my ruck than I do getting into any of my shirt pockets.

Nametapes and patches: I would tell you that if you cant grab the right top on the way out the door to work then you should get up earlier to check those things or set aside your uniform the night before so its not an issue.  I have all of my patches/tabs/tapes on every ACU uniform I own.  As for the pin-ons, I dont wear them so I will refrain on commenting on this with the exception of stating there is a company who makes plastic badges and I hear they are great...

Serviceability:  They need alot of work.  I find the blouse to fit better than the BDU top but the pants need some work.  As well they should be using stronger thread to keep the crotch from ripping out.  Fortunately for me I wear BDU's where I am for everything except the Dog and Pony show from time to time.

"Perks":  ACH's, we wear them, you just might not be around to see it.  

As for the rest of our kit and "perks," SOF's jobs very greatly from the conventional military much of the time and as such we have some leniency in the choices we make and what we wear because at times we need to look different than the other soldiers in the battlespace.  There are also times it benefits us more to look like everyone else.    


Helomedic:

If you are fed up with the MP's (you cant spell wimp without MP) you can always put in your packet for SFAS...  Dont bitch about it, do something about it.

Crip


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> OMG where to even start this reply...
> 
> Velcro, again:  If the argument on the uniform comes down to noisy velcro then we should remove it from all of our pouches and other kit and while we are at it large zippers can be just as noisy if opened quickly so they should be removed.  This noise issue comes down to Situational Awareness, not the method used to secure your blouse.  I make more noise opening my ruck than I do getting into any of my shirt pockets.



lol poor Crip  My pouches didn't have velco nor my shirts zippers 

There was one unit that was banned for a time from wearing rain gear as they are noisy but that was recindered.

The velcro is a minor issue to my mind compared to the colour of the ACUs but it was brought up so i'm giving my $8 worth.


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## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> the kits are here:
> 
> http://www.oregonaero.com/p81_2001.html
> 
> ...



Thanks r.e. the oregonareo.

I will gladly take a medium PASGT off your hands! :)

PM me when you get a chance.


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## surgicalcric (Jan 28, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> ...The velcro is a minor issue to my mind compared to the colour of the ACUs but it was brought up so i'm giving my $8 worth.



$8 is a pretty conservative figure if you ask me...  lol

I knew I had forgotten something in my last post.  The colors do suck, atleast the 2 different shades of grey/foliage green 504.  I dont dislike the digital pattern but there needs to be some green (ranger green comes to mind) in the pattern to blend in down here where I am.  I have seen the ACU's being worn in this area for the obligatory photo ops for a magazine and they stand out worse than most can believe.  I will see if I can dig up a few of the pics since we have a few on our shared drive...

Crip


----------



## pardus (Jan 28, 2008)

I would be interested to see the pics.


----------



## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 28, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> Helomedic:
> 
> If you are fed up with the MP's (you cant spell wimp without MP) you can always put in your packet for SFAS...  Dont bitch about it, do something about it.
> 
> Crip



Absolutely.  However, I'll leave that shit to the ones better suited for it, for the time being.  I'm still in the conditioning phase.  in the mean time, I applied for Flight Medic.  We'll see how that pans out, it's where I've wanted to be since I got in.  not sure if I'll be allowed to, though - I just got handed SRP paperwork today. 



surgicalcric said:


> I will see if I can dig up a few of the pics since we have a few on our shared drive...
> 
> Crip



I'd like to see those too, just for laughs.  thanks for the replies from someone much closer to the field than myself.


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## surgicalcric (Jan 28, 2008)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> ...I'm still in the conditioning phase.  in the mean time, I applied for Flight Medic...



I hear the 160th is always looking for good medics as is SOS-B, CA, etc...  All the previous are SOCM slots.

Just more ideas if you are wanting to get away from the "regular" Army.  Though, dont be fooled into thinking its all fun and games where we are.  We have our fair share of stupidity, our BS meters are just calibrated a bit differently.  ;)

Crip


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## Marauder06 (Feb 7, 2008)

*ACU vs. BDU in woodland environment*



pardus762 said:


> I would be interested to see the pics.



Here's one of my Pathfinder small group before our jump into the last training exercise.  This was a couple of years ago, before ACUs were widespread.  I'm the one in the ACUs- note the contrast of the ACUs vs. the BDUs (the guy standing to my direct right is Polish GROM, that's why his uniform and headgear are different).


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## pardus (Feb 7, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Here's one of my Pathfinder small group before our jump into the last training exercise.  This was a couple of years ago, before ACUs were widespread.  I'm the one in the ACUs- note the contrast of the ACUs vs. the BDUs (the guy standing to my direct right is Polish GROM, that's why his uniform and headgear are different).



Thanks Mara.

That is a great pic to show the difference.
How could anyone look at this and say ACU is a viable cam for ALL terrain? :uhh:


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## hidesite (Feb 8, 2008)

I miss summer weight BDU's... (We still wear these when "working" away from the flag pole)

ACU's are made of crappy-ass-weak material that rip easier than a doughnuts bag in the hands of a fat man and stand out in a woodline like Paris Hilton at a spelling-bee...

Pin on is a gay way of getting everyone that has actually earned something on their uniform other than a name tape and US Army tape to stop wearing their quals voluntarily... It's professional jealousy at it's worst...


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## 275ANGER! (Feb 8, 2008)

I don’t even know why we have this discussion about uniforms and who gets to wear what and yada yada yada. In Garrison this shit is fine!  In the field it is another story.  I grew tired of people (CSMs) telling us what we can and can’t wear!  Do you know what it is like to run around Iraq in the fucking summer time all kitted up or hike up fucking cliffs in Afghanistan?  No, because you are to fucking busy watching us on some platform in an air conditioned or heated room.  Every time we got some new CSM whether it is Regimental or Battalion, they have changed something about the uniform policy.  I know this is the Army and yada…yada…yada.  Uniformity instills discipline and whatever bullshit you want to feed us.  If any asshole needs discipline then he shouldn’t fucking be here!  We are grown ass men! Yes, I know there are the bad apples but of you let the TLs and SLs beat the fucker and I bet you things would change; we are a softer/gentler Army.  I don’t know how many emails and Blue Book Standard changes have been sent out about the wear of the uniform.  I could give two fucks less about the uniform, All I care about is that you can perform your job/duties to best of your ability.  If this means you are fucking running around in your underwear, so be it.  

I hated when asked by civilians about the new “improved” uniforms, I wanted to punch them.  Then we get Joe that thinks these are the “coolest” uniforms.  I wanted to drop kick him!  You can go through all these post and pick out everything wrong that has been said with the uniform no need for me to abuse it anymore. 

The biggest thing I think our leaders worried about was how we were being perceived by the rest of the Army. Who cares IMO.  “Rangers running wild, no discipline, long hair, wearing whatever they want”.  Yes, some fucking cheese dicks had the balls to make comments.  We are here to do a job and not look pretty for you.  New CSM made this policy that we had to have our sleeves down until we got to the “drop off point” then we could roll our sleeves up and unblouse our pants and before we got back in the vehicles we had to get back into Army standards, WTF!  Supposedly we set bad examples for the rest of the military.  “Those guys are doing it, why can’t I”.  Another heated topic was boots in Regiment.  We have had numerous changes in what you can and can’t wear.  Why can’t we just wear what works for us?  This micromanaging bullshit blows.

Something new would always come up when the CSM saw us in the field, you can’t wear it that way or why are you wearing that.  Who gives a fuck!  He got mad when he saw a squad doing some dry run drills without the ACU top just the shirt.  The whole squad had their ACU tops off, uniformity?  A while back a video was shown at Ranger Ball, with a squad working some drills at the range with out their DCU tops but in full kit.  There was some talk between high ranking personnel about what we where wearing that day.  The old CSM had our back, this is why I hate Regiment looking outside for new leaders.  They don’t know how we roll.  

All this cross talk about Velcro is annoying.  SOF had Velcro on their sleeves for some time now.  Way before the rest of the Army followed suit.  We had a purpose for it.

I am not running around some fucking shit filled country looking to win hearts and minds with the way I wear my uniform, I am here to do a job.  That is what SF is for, they also train them so we can be presented with a challenge when we kill them.  Joking guys, I LOVE you!:)  That brings me to something else, SOCOM has not properly used SF in Iraq.  SF is a powerful asset when used properly.  I can’t argue because it made my days more exciting.   

The wear of the uniform in Garrison with the ACU has brought problems.  I saw tons of people including in my own unit look like total ass.  Bellville’s are fucking dirty, they are wearing there top that was in the field yesterday, just popped on the stupid badges and patches.  I kept two pairs of fresh clean  ACU’s for only garrison and a pair of newer Bellville’s that have not seen the field.  I was happy that I did not have to shine boots or starch my BDUs anymore but they looked sharp.  You could also tell who was fucked up.  You walk around post or outside post and some of these people’s uniforms are fucked up.  Beret looks like a pizza hat, ACUs look like they got pulled out of their duffle bag. Where is the Pride?

Marines have the better setup of uniforms, no silly badges to deal with and it looks geared toward combat not looks!  

Rant over... I would continue and maybe give a thesis and conclusion and work on some of the formatting but I have to finish writing my English paper before it gets any later.


Now that I look back at what I wrote what the fuck was I talking about??? Oh well.


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## hidesite (Feb 8, 2008)

Uniform's and uniformity as a rule is designed as a tool to INSTILL discipline in Soldiers. Disciplined Soldiers (READ: "Warriors") don't need it to RETAIN discipline to be a good Soldier, that's what they are by instinct and that why they do what they do. They are there to BE a professional Soldier first and not just use the military as an ends to a means for the financial and educational benefits. Yes, they still take advantage of said benefits, as they should but, they could have done far less in the Army and received the same benefits. They have chosen the more challenging, difficult and rewarding path of the true professional Soldier.

The BCT/OSUT/AIT environment and units that have no prerequisite of a "higher standard" for membership need this tool to instill and dually maintain discipline, no question. 

Units that foster a "perform or leave" type of discipline do not need this rudimentary form of discipline. 

The Army needs to quit looking at all Soldiers as being equal because quite frankly they're simply not. 

There are unit's that by their very nature have better Soldiers than others. It's just a fact, sorry, someone has to be better, no different than even though you're in the major leagues of baseball... You may be a Tampa Bay Devil Ray and not a Yankee (one example...) 

The powers-to-be just need to accept it (Get over it) and move on and treat people accordingly. When considering the training and the dedication a Soldier must have to rate the title and belong to a unit of Special Forces, The Ranger Regiment and even LRS, SOAR, the 82nd ABN (No particular order...) and so forth, they just foster a Soldier that is more disciplined, thus superior, than that of a Soldier somewhere in the rear echelon of the NBIG GREEN ARMY. 

Look at the facts cumulatively such as average GT scores, PT scores, military education, lack of UCMJ actions and etc and etc... 

When a Soldier says _"Why can't I dress like that guy"_ the answer should be _"Because you don't need to and he does, It's not a fucking fashion show!_ What a Soldier should wares should be whatever is most befitting the accomplishment of his (or her) job... PERIOD. A basic issue uniform can cover most of this especially in a day-to-day garrison environment for most Soldiers. In a field environment (Training or combat) that is an entirely different scenario. If a "regular Soldier" sees a "snake eater type" training or somewhere down range and says _"Why can't I wear a pair of Merrells, a ball cap,plate hangers and un blouse my boots?"_ the answer should be _"Why don't you go and try and do that guys job for a month... Hell, go on one road march, one exercise, one mission with the likes of him and his peers and then answer your own question?"_ 

It's not just a matter of WANT (It is on some levels but, so what, some have earned a little freedom of as to how they dress), it's a matter of NEED.

The Army has to fill all kinds of jobs from the most rear echelon, non-deployable support jobs all the way to a professional warrior specialized in the art of guerilla warfare. I just don't see how you can treat these two extremely different types of soldiers the exact same, they're to large a dichotomy, a total contrast. 

*The only reason it's been done for so long is that the professional warrior is DISIPLINED and does what he's told, (for the most part ;)) no matter how ridicules it seams that he "look" just like the rest of the Army despite his tactical needs to which brings my long winded diatribe here full circle and back to my original point. Some Soldiers don't need such elementary things to maintain their disciplined and professional posture and some flatly do...*

(This also adds to why so many were so upset when they GAVE AWAY the black beret of the 75th RR to the rest of the regular Army.)

An elite Soldier gets no extra pay (Recruiter pro-pay is more than freaking jump-pay!) so they do not strive for success in tangible way I/E $$$$$$$. (An E-6 on an SF team makes as much as an E-6 anywhere else in the big green Army...) The "Professional Soldier" may get their own personal reward for DOING MORE from intangibles such as being able to simply wear the elite mark of destination of a simple uniform difference. It may be a different colored headgear, a badge, a tab, a pair of jump boots or simply being able to grow a beard when down range and wear a sleeveless T-shirt. It's basic human nature that no one is uninfluenced by. (If you say _"not me"_ you're full of shit... ;)) It seems like a small price to pay to have these types amongst our military, I think that if someone out there in the big green "regular" Army's one goal in life is to dress like an SF Soldier... THEN FUCKING GO SF!

I'll be shutting up now...

RANT OFF.


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## demo18c (Feb 8, 2008)

I once heard a General say SOF can wear whatever they wanted because of the success stories that come out every night. Of course there is limits but one can not tell a shooter how to wear his gear. if it works for him then that all that matters.


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## car (Feb 8, 2008)

demo18c said:


> I once heard a General say SOF can wear whatever they wanted because of the success stories that come out every night. Of course there is limits but one can not tell a shooter how to wear his gear. if it works for him then that all that matters.



Depends - it's personality driven, by the commander at the time. When the 82nd first took overall command of ground forces in A-stan ('02?), I started getting hate mail form my SOF brethren ('cause I'm an old school 82nd guy) - "your command team" (I was in Monterey at the time, not Fayetteville) just doesn't get it, Chris!...." Rant, rant, rant........ 

I, of course, agreed with the guys doing the job, not the headquarters drones. :doh: but the boyz were giving me no quarter :eek:


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## pardus (Feb 9, 2008)

Anyone that dictates dress at the detriment of the fighting man should be courts martialed and be publicly disgraced IMO.


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## P. Beck (Feb 9, 2008)

REMF CSM's complaining about uniforms and haircuts serve the same basic purpose as MP's in theater.  They serve as an indicator to the SF soldier that hostilities in that vicinity have been suppressed to a sufficient level so as to allow follow-on feather merchants to take up residence, that his task in that AO is complete and it is time to move further out into the bundu in search of more bad-guys.


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## MFFJM091 (Mar 13, 2008)

from talking to a friend of mine you can't beat Crye Precision Multi-Cam.  http://www.cryeprecision.com  Same uniform used in Transformers.  Amazing Hollywood has better shit th an we do.  Of course you can't order any of it because they are always out of stock.  Most definitely beats ACU's.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 13, 2008)

P. Beck said:


> REMF CSM's complaining about uniforms and haircuts serve the same basic purpose as MP's in theater.  They serve as an indicator to the SF soldier that hostilities in that vicinity have been suppressed to a sufficient level so as to allow follow-on feather merchants to take up residence, that his task in that AO is complete and it is time to move further out into the bundu in search of more bad-guys.



Holy shit that was funny


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## irnbndr (Mar 14, 2008)

275ANGER! said:


> Hate...Hate...Hate!  I was confused :confused: when we got a care manuel/card with the ACU issue, what a waste of money!  But I must say the Tan Beret looks good with the uniform.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if you don't know what the fuck you are doing, just look good doing it, that is most important!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 14, 2008)

Quick question, has any one used the new ACU shirt, the one with just sleeves???


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## zeikooc (Mar 18, 2008)

Personally I like the ACU. The velcro is really annoying :doh: but other than that their good. I've never had to look at it from the combat perspective however.


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## Kurt V (Mar 18, 2008)

P. Beck said:


> REMF CSM's complaining about uniforms and haircuts serve the same basic purpose as MP's in theater.  They serve as an indicator to the SF soldier that hostilities in that vicinity have been suppressed to a sufficient level so as to allow follow-on feather merchants to take up residence, that his task in that AO is complete and it is time to move further out into the bundu in search of more bad-guys.



Truest fucking statement ever!


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## pardus (Mar 18, 2008)

zeikooc said:


> Personally I like the ACU. The velcro is really annoying :doh: but other than that their good. I've never had to look at it from the combat perspective however.



And what do you think the ultimate purpose of the uniform is?

Combat maybe???


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## Marauder06 (Mar 18, 2008)

zeikooc said:


> Personally I like the ACU. The velcro is really annoying :doh: but other than that their good. I've never had to look at it from the combat perspective however.



I don't dig all the exposed velcro.  They don't blend in real well, and I don't think they last as long as BDUs/DCUs.


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## zeikooc (Mar 19, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> And what do you think the ultimate purpose of the uniform is?
> 
> Combat maybe???


 
I was merely stating my opinion. But yeah I hope so. Otherwise it would be a waste of money. 

"General invents Army Comfort Uniform"


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## titanboxer (Mar 30, 2008)

I don't even find it comfortable.  A medium is too tight around my shoulders, but a large has too much material around the bottom that is annoying under body armor.  Its designed for the army's beloved long distance runner body.  Just look at the press release pictures someone posted.  My neck is a little thick to close the throat cover flap thing.  

What do you guys think about the pants?  They're designed for the generals apparently since they are supposed to be worn up to your navel.  This is why i think the crotches rip out, guys where them down where they are comfortable, and then the inseam is down further, exposing it to extra strain when you take a knee or climb up something, etc.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 30, 2008)

titanboxer said:


> What do you guys think about the pants?  They're designed for the generals apparently since they are supposed to be worn up to your navel.  This is why i think the crotches rip out, guys where them down where they are comfortable, and then the inseam is down further, exposing it to extra strain when you take a knee or climb up something, etc.



I agree 100%.  and if you get a size shorter, i.e. get regular when you need long, then the crotch is a little more snug than i'd like, and it's coming out of your boots if you tuck them.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 30, 2008)

The new ACU flame "retarded" :) is pink! How fucking gay is that?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Mar 30, 2008)

no fucking way.  are you serious??  I hope you're fucking kidding.  and I REALLY hope I don't have to wear them.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 31, 2008)

Not kidding, the fucking grey and tan is a light shade of pink. Fucking bullshit!


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## pardus (Mar 31, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> Not kidding, the fucking grey and tan is a light shade of pink. Fucking bullshit!



Can you get a picture for us?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Apr 1, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> Not kidding, the fucking grey and tan is a light shade of pink. Fucking bullshit!



oh fucking hell, I saw those today.  no shit.  it really is pink.  I thought he washed it with a red shirt or some shit!!!  "no, these are brand new... why you ask??"


LOL


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## herksrus (Apr 1, 2008)

Ive read all of this bitchin...........just be glad you aint gotta wear the new Gay Force uniform.

http://www.afspc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060323-F-0000Z-001.jpg

Im glad I wear flight suits all the time.


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## irnbndr (Apr 1, 2008)

Do the new T-shirts make anyone else stink?  I mean really f'n stink?


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## rangerpsych (Apr 1, 2008)

yep, issued sucked had to go to a different type.  Had the same issue with some brand of brown... never bought that brand again and can't remember it.. think it had to do with the blend.

Plain old cotton for me, or underarmor/leps...


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## XiXo (Apr 11, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> I have two good (Infantry) friends, who have spent a lot of time in BAMC burn unit. That would strongly disagree with you on this one.:2c:



I'm former infantry that works in the BAMC burn unit, and I am constantly calling my buddies and reminding them to wear their nomex and eye-pro.  Unless you've seen the damage without it, you have no idea how much that couple of millimeters matters.


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## surgicalcric (Apr 11, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Do the new T-shirts make anyone else stink?  I mean really f'n stink?



Yep.  I no longer wear them...

I purchased the Xgo FR shirts and I love them.  They run a bit small so I would order the next size larger if you are anywhere close to filling out an issue shirt.

Crip


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## Ravage (Apr 21, 2008)

I've noticed a rustent "hype" for that multicam thing. Even GROM suddenly bought a cheap ripoff. Is that camo worth all the attention it's been getting ?
I mean I do have a pic of a door-kicker in Iraq with that camo on him (not going to post it here of course) so gues they are using it.


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## pardus (Apr 21, 2008)

Ravage said:


> Is that camo worth all the attention it's been getting ?



Yep!


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## Ravage (Apr 21, 2008)

Cool. I'll shut up and get back to lurking on this thread :)


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## Viper1 (Jun 26, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Do the new T-shirts make anyone else stink?  I mean really f'n stink?



Yes they smell something awful.  I bought the Tan T-shirts from 5.11 Tactical.  They are great, breathe well, stayed tucked in, and don't stick.... plus they last longer too.


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## car (Jun 26, 2008)

irnbndr said:


> Do the new T-shirts make anyone else stink?  I mean really f'n stink?



I don't think the _shirts_ make _people_ stink......:uhh:;)

But I have thrown out all the Underarmour t-shirts I wore over there. They were great at the time, but, yeah, they tended to retain smells. Now that I'm an office whore :doh: I can't really make a judgement.


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## AWP (Jun 26, 2008)

One problem with the Underarmor shirts and those like them is they will burn into your flesh in the event of a fire. They may be comfortable but if you roll up on an IED it will get nasty if you survive the initial explosion.


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## John0321 (Jul 15, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> One problem with the Underarmor shirts and those like them is they will burn into your flesh in the event of a fire. They may be comfortable but if you roll up on an IED it will get nasty if you survive the initial explosion.



On that note, you guys should check out 
http://www.massif.com/index.php
They make some good stuff. I don't work for them or anything, I just hate seeing guys with nasty burns that may have been prevented.


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## Ajax (Jul 17, 2008)

surgicalcric said:


> You guys really need to give the velcro=noise subject a rest.  This subject has been beaten to death here.
> 
> Crip



If you cough at the same time you open your pocket, the enemy can't hear the velcro. Just say'n...


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## pardus (Jul 17, 2008)

Ajax said:


> If you cough at the same time you open your pocket, the enemy can't hear the velcro. Just say'n...



Hahaha! :cool:


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## Crusader74 (Jul 17, 2008)

Ajax said:


> If you cough at the same time you open your pocket, the enemy can't hear the velcro. Just say'n...



BUHAHAHAHAJAGAHA!!!!


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## RadioSpook (Sep 15, 2008)

pardus762 said:


> Being a soldier is like being an olympic athlete, its the small tweaks to performance that make the difference between winning and loosing.



Oooh. I am gonna use THAT for a quote. That's a little motivation boost for me. Thanks.


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## Rakkasan12A (Sep 21, 2008)

Bottom line IMO, ACU's suck and like was stated above they dont blend hardly at all except in the desert about 10%. Durability also sucks they fade as fast as I can buy a new pair. I say take the old BDU. Just change the color put some pockets on the the arms with "buttons", and call it a day. The summer material on the old BDU was awesome and easily repairable. The ACU last about 10 days in the field and that pair is done. Mostly because the crotch rips out ( and I'm no fat guy BTW, 165lbs and 5"10) or they stain so easily that they cant be worn in garrison.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 14, 2008)

*No kidding they suck in green environments...*

ALARACT 220/2008

-------------------------Official Message----------------------------------------

    SUBJECT: EXCEPTION TO POLICY FOR WEAR OF THE ENHANCED HOT WEATHER BATTLE DRESS
    UNIFORM (EHWBDU), AVIATION BATTLE DRESS UNIFORM (ABDU), AVIATION FLIGHT SUIT, AND
    ACCESSORY ITEMS


    1. THIS MESSAGE SERVES AS AUTHORIZATION FOR WEAR OF THE EHWBDU, ABDU, AND
    ACCESSORY ITEMS AFTER THE MANDATORY WEAR OUT DATES FOR SOLDIERS ASSIGNED TO
    UNITED STATES ARMY SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND (USASOC) CONDUCTING OPERATIONAL
    TRAINING AND CONTINGECY MISSIONS IN THE FOLLOWING OCONUS THEATERS:

    A. PACIFIC COMMAND
    B. SOUTH COMMAND
    C. AFRICA COMMAND

    2. THE FOLLOWING WOODLAND ORGANIZATIONAL CLOTHING AND INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT
    (OCIE) ITEMS WILL BE MAINTAINED AS ISSUE IN THE ARMY SUPPLY SYSTEM:

    UNIFORM ITEMS
    BOI
    A. EHWBDUs (COAT AND TROUSERS) 4
    B. ABDUs (COAT AND TROUSERS) 4
    C. GEN I GORTEX (COAT AND TROUSERS) 1
    D. BDU, SUN HAT 1
    E. BROWN T-SHIRTS 4
    F. PATROL CAP 1
    G. AVIATION FLIGHT SUIT 2
    H. ARMY COMBAT HELMET COVER 1
    I. BLACK BOOTS (HOT WEATHER, SPEED LACE) 2


    3. POC FOR UNIFORM POLICY IS SGM K. EASLEY, DSN 225-5406, COMM
    (703) 695-5406. E-MAIL IS KATRINA.EASLEY@HQDA.ARMY.MIL.

    4. THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE DCS, G-1.

    5. EXPIRATION DATE CANNOT BE DETERMINED.

================Official Message======================


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## Marauder06 (Oct 14, 2008)

Rakkasan12A said:


> .... Mostly because the crotch rips out ( and I'm no fat guy BTW, 165lbs and 5"10) ....



Ditto.  Every pair I've worn while deployed ripped at the crotch.  And not like a little "no one will ever notice" bit either- more like "hm, glad I wore underwear today" amount


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## car (Oct 14, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Ditto.  Every pair I've worn while deployed ripped at the crotch.  And not like a little "no one will ever notice" bit either- more like "hm, glad I wore underwear today" amount



They're only designed to last six months.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm never gone that long ;)

One pair of the new flame-retardant ACUs I had split at the crotch as I was getting into a van to take me to the airport- the very first time I wore them.  POS.


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## x SF med (Oct 14, 2008)

Jesus, the original 'heavy' BDU's were friggin bullet proof - you needed to use an awl to repair the things...


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## pardus (Oct 15, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> One pair of the new flame-retardant ACUs I had split at the crotch as I was getting into a van to take me to the airport- the very first time I wore them.  POS.



Fatass... :eek:    :cool:  ;)


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## Hammer (Dec 26, 2008)

EXACTLY...




soraflair said:


> Compair this (MARPAT)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------

