# Building the Endurance to Run Fast after Swimming?



## Deleted member 15200 (Jul 30, 2020)

I find that my run times are considerably slower after swimming, than coming from rest. The inverse is not true, however. When I run first, my swim times are barely affected. Any tips on what I can do to better build my post-swim running endurance/speed?


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## Kaldak (Jul 30, 2020)

Best thing is to do bricks occasionally.

Do a swim and as quick as you can, go for a run. Short-ish but very fast.

You'll slowly acclimate your muscles and body to the differences between the sports. This will mean, when you swim Monday and run Tuesday, it will be as if you didn't swim Monday.


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## Salt USMC (Jul 30, 2020)

IIRC @ThunderHorse did a few triathlons and may have some insight


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## Polar Bear (Jul 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> I find that my run times are considerably slower after swimming, than coming from rest. The inverse is not true, however. When I run first, my swim times are barely affected. Any tips on what I can do to better build my post-swim running endurance/speed?


Not being an ass, learn to run! Most people don’t know how to run. You can just change your stride and change your times tremendously.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 30, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> IIRC @ThunderHorse did a few triathlons and may have some insight



Appreciate the shout, but @Kaldak has far more experience than me in that department, he was actually good!



PineTree said:


> I find that my run times are considerably slower after swimming, than coming from rest. The inverse is not true, however. When I run first, my swim times are barely affected. Any tips on what I can do to better build my post-swim running endurance/speed?



Kaldak is pretty spot on.  The only way to get used to that is to do a brick workout consistently.  In Triathlon training this mainly focuses on the bike to run piece.  But really has nothing do with those two disciplines, you could do "bricks" with anything.  

My only question would be is what's specific training purpose and that would shape the rest of my advice.


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## Devildoc (Jul 30, 2020)

One of the best ways to get better is to just do it.  I am a much better swimmer than I am runner, so when I was training in the military, sometimes I would run then swim, sometimes I would swim then run, which always sucked and my times would be horrible. I would also do squats, heavy squats, a lot of weight, on weight days and really build up my thighs. That really helped. I would also run with a weight vest on a treadmill at a high incline. That really helped as well.


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## Arf (Jul 30, 2020)

I agree with @Kaldak

I ran track my whole life, but began playing waterpolo because I wanted to be in Navy SOF one day. I was the slowest swimmer on my team. I eventually got to the point where my endurance could handle the hours of swimming a day that the other guys who had swam their whole lives tolerated better than me.

One day my water polo team did a land based workout that included a lot of running and I noticed something interesting. These guys with 8-pack stomachs who could swim insanely fast for insane amounts of time were useless on land. They were indisputably in amazing shape, but it was comical to watch them run a single lap around the track. I gleefully lapped them over and over because I was finally better at everyone at something.

Your body adapts to what it is used doing. Just because I was a fast runner who could run for distance, didn’t also mean that when I first started swimming I didn’t embarrass myself like a drowning fat old woman. These guys who were amazing swimmers were exhausted running one slow little lap around the track.
Just keep doing it, my man. If your body is shocked going from swim to run, then keep practicing that transition. You will adapt.
If you are doing this for the Physical Screening Test(PST) then try and do the simulated Test as often as possible. Putting it all together often is a lot more difficult than doing it separately as you have seen.
I also would practice treading every day you can get to a pool, because treading takes a long time to get good at. I’ll post treading videos soon.


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## Deleted member 15200 (Jul 31, 2020)

@Kaldak Thanks for the tips, I'll look to try and incorporate bricks into my workouts. 

@Polar Bear If I had to guess I would say I'm probably running completely wrong. I've never had any formal coaching/instruction. Have any specific resources on running form to share?

@ThunderHorse I'm focused right now on getting fit to take screening tests, so swims of 500-1500m and runs of 1.5-3 miles for time

@Devildoc Is running with a weight vest risky on your knees? Is there a specific technique you need to use or should I just run normally?

@Arf What would you say is a good goal to strive for for treading? An hour? With hands or without?


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## Devildoc (Jul 31, 2020)

PineTree said:


> @Kaldak Thanks for the tips, I'll look to try and incorporate bricks into my workouts.
> 
> @Polar Bear If I had to guess I would say I'm probably running completely wrong. I've never had any formal coaching/instruction. Have any specific resources on running form to share?
> 
> ...



Running with a ruck is wonky at best (throws off your center of gravity and redistributes the weight) and dangerous at worst.  If you go to any infantry unit let alone SOF you _will _run with a ruck.  I find running with a weight vest (specifically, a plate carrier) with 20#-35# helpful as it is 'tight' on my body and doesn't screw around with my body mechanics.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 31, 2020)

I ran with a vest the summer of when I went to LDAC.  It helped a lot.  I believe in vest running, especially for anything under 5 miles.  It hardens your core.  It does things.  But if you're going to do vest workouts you need to get a good vest and transition slowly.  I had a vest that could take up to 40lbs worth of weight, I never got up to that but I did get up to 20lbs.  

If you're training for a half marathon I wouldn't go crazy with vest running though.

Vests give your muscles the additional strain of weight with your body actually not having the extra nastiness.  Great piece of kit really.


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## Archangel27 (Jul 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I ran with a vest the summer of when I went to LDAC.  It helped a lot.  I believe in vest running, especially for anything under 5 miles.  It hardens your core.  It does things.  But if you're going to do vest workouts you need to get a good vest and transition slowly.  I had a vest that could take up to 40lbs worth of weight, I never got up to that but I did get up to 20lbs.
> 
> If you're training for a half marathon I wouldn't go crazy with vest running though.
> 
> Vests give your muscles the additional strain of weight with your body actually not having the extra nastiness.  Great piece of kit really.



So just to make sure I understand, vest running is good for training, but when it comes down to it you're still going to be running with a ruck?


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 31, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> So just to make sure I understand, vest running is good for training, but when it comes down to it you're still going to be running with a ruck?


Vest running is different from ruck running.  Vest running will help some for "running under load", but the only way to get decent at that is also ruck running.


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## Archangel27 (Jul 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Vest running is different from ruck running.  Vest running will help some for "running under load", but the only way to get decent at that is also ruck running.



Okay so it's more of a matter of degrees then.  You need to learn both but ruck running will take a lot more out of you comparatively.


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## ctree (Jul 31, 2020)

What vest do you guys recommend?


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## Devildoc (Jul 31, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> Okay so it's more of a matter of degrees then.  You need to learn both but ruck running will take a lot more out of you comparatively.



Yeah, I guess it's a matter of degrees.  Running with a ruck just plain sucks, and unless you are actually training for SOF, or in a unit that makes you do it, don't do it.  The benefit isn't worth the risk.  If you are going to SOF or infantry, start with low weight and low speed and build up.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 31, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> Okay so it's more of a matter of degrees then.  You need to learn both but ruck running will take a lot more out of you comparatively.


If you have not yet, be sure to check out the Rucking thread directly above this one.


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