# General Terrorism Discussion



## The Accountant (Nov 19, 2015)

Rapid said:


> It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist to not have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you've explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility. It's like a bad Monty Python sketch.
> 
> "We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it."
> 
> ...




I watched this video a moment ago... you would enjoy it. It mocks the bizarre Liberalism in school systems. 

This Hilarious Video Mocks The Bizarre Liberalism In Schools -


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 19, 2015)

K9Quest said:


> I watched this video a moment ago... you would enjoy it. It mocks the bizarre Liberalism in school systems.
> 
> This Hilarious Video Mocks The Bizarre Liberalism In Schools -



That would be a great video, the problem is that shit doesn't happen in the sciences or engineering classrooms. The people in those classrooms are figuring out how to get us to Mars.


----------



## nobodythank you (Nov 19, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> That would be a great video, the problem is that shit doesn't happen in the sciences or engineering classrooms. The people in those classrooms are figuring out how to get us to Mars.


Uhhh what is the basis for engineering and science? Mathematics. Without it, those other classes fall apart.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 19, 2015)

I agree, engineering is mathematics.


----------



## The Accountant (Nov 19, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> That would be a great video, the problem is that shit doesn't happen in the sciences or engineering classrooms. The people in those classrooms are figuring out how to get us to Mars.



Personally I don't feel the subject of the class has much relevance in the video itself.. just satire. Seems they chose a random subject and rolled with it. The video itself probably more accurately portrays how people react with one another on social media, not so much the class room. 

My experience is people rather text in class instead of debating with one another. However a large majority of my classes were largely full of hungover kids in the morning or working individuals at night.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 19, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I agree, engineering is mathematics.


Sadly, because my math skills have degraded, science is math based.


----------



## Brill (Nov 19, 2015)

K9Quest said:


> I watched this video a moment ago... you would enjoy it. It mocks the bizarre Liberalism in school systems.
> 
> This Hilarious Video Mocks The Bizarre Liberalism In Schools -



Holy shit. If that isn't the Army's new retention board, I don't know what is!


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 19, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> Uhhh what is the basis for engineering and science? Mathematics. Without it, those other classes fall apart.



Math science and engineering are what I am talking about. In the classes I have taken shit like this would never happen. In a Sociology class otoh...


----------



## nobodythank you (Nov 19, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Math science and engineering are what I am talking about. In the classes I have taken shit like this would never happen. In a Sociology class otoh...


True, but the class referenced in the video was advanced mathematics. While I agree that it is unlikely for this to happen, academic settings can differ and this scenario is not too far from being a possibility given the current political and sociological climate.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 19, 2015)

ke4gde said:


> True, but the class referenced in the video was advanced mathematics. While I agree that it is unlikely for this to happen, academic settings can differ and this scenario is not too far from being a possibility given the current political and sociological climate.



When was the last time you were in a college class? This is about a billion miles removed from possibility in a STEM classroom.


----------



## nobodythank you (Nov 20, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> When was the last time you were in a college class? This is about a billion miles removed from possibility in a STEM classroom.


I have been in several for the last three years, thanks.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 22, 2015)

This is a active shooter incident and body count time lapse video that I thought some might find interesting. It doesn't specify the who's, what's or why's, and it is geographic to the United States. But still interesting to see have they speed up over the past few years and where geographically they happen more often.


What GWOT Veterans Really Think About Syrian Refugees - Unprecedented Mediocrity

This is an article more specific to a Marine veteran of Iraq and his opinion on the refugee topic. I agree with alot of what he said, and share his opinions and experiences of the types of people you meet during patrols in Iraq. Worth reading.


----------



## Rapid (Nov 23, 2015)

What will America look like in just a few more generations? These kinds of extreme left wing views are becoming more and more widespread. I mean, Jesus, the amount of support those comments got is baffling.


----------



## JBS (Nov 23, 2015)

Wow.


Amazing.

So we bust 11 people in 10 years that want to create a race war and this is comparable to a worldwide Jihad.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 23, 2015)

Rapid said:


> What will America look like in just a few more generations? These kinds of extreme left wing views are becoming more and more widespread. I mean, Jesus, the amount of support those comments got is baffling.



To be honest I am more afraid of being shot on campus by some whiny bitch(probably male and white) with no girlfriend than I am any ISIS dudes.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 23, 2015)

In terms of mass shootings again, I am more afraid of some bitch white boy than any Muslims. 


JBS said:


> Wow.
> 
> 
> Amazing.
> ...



They don't have to be extremists whites for me to be scared of them, they just have to be willing to bring a gun to a gun free zone.


----------



## Brill (Nov 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> To be honest I am more afraid of being shot on campus by some whiny bitch(probably male and white) with no girlfriend than I am any ISIS dudes.



You do realize you just offended EVERYONE in the gaming thread?


----------



## medicchick (Nov 23, 2015)

lindy said:


> You do realize you just offended EVERYONE in the gaming thread?


Pretty sure RP has a girl.


----------



## Rapid (Nov 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> To be honest I am more afraid of being shot on campus by some whiny bitch(probably male and white) with no girlfriend than I am any ISIS dudes.



I'm not afraid of IS, but...

The Virginia Tech shooter was Asian.
Chris Harper-Mercer was half black.
Elliot Rodger was half Asian.
The guy who shot up those TV reporters? Black.

Just off the top of my head.

But hey,that Mayor and his dumbass fanboys would rather single out the evil white man. What is it with white leftists, the kind you see in those comments, and self-flagellation? I'm certain they say this type of shit because they think it makes them look superior. Isn't it enough to just say that you're worried about mentally unhinged killers? Where's the need to specify white people in particular? Sure, spree killers are more likely to be white, but then white people do currently constitute the majority of the population...

Quite frankly, going by FBI statistics alone, you're even more likely to become a victim of violent/discriminatory black-on-white crime than to be shot by a white spree killer. But you don't see mayors going around saying they're more afraid of violent black criminals than they are of ISIS or spree shooters. At most they might say that they're more afraid of being caught up as a victim of a violent crime. No race specified. Rightly so.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 23, 2015)

Rapid said:


> I'm not afraid of IS, but...
> 
> The Virginia Tech shooter was Asian.
> Chris Harper-Mercer was half black.
> ...



I am more afraid of a white spree shooter than any terrorist. Why? 60+%of mass shootings are by a lone acting white gunman. Recently they have found that schools are an easy target. What do I have to fear of ISIS compared to some spurned kid with easy access to an AR-15 and tons of ammo who thinks he can Call of Duty his way to fame....


----------



## Kraut783 (Nov 23, 2015)

Mayor Mike Rawlings is a lot like Clay Jenkins of the Dallas County Commissioners Court.......idiots


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I am more afraid of a white spree shooter than any terrorist. Why? 60+%of mass shootings are by a lone acting white gunman. Recently they have found that schools are an easy target. What do I have to fear of ISIS compared to some spurned kid with easy access to an AR-15 and tons of ammo who thinks he can Call of Duty his way to fame....



Mass shootings are actually fairly proportional to the demographics of the country. But yes you're right roughly 64% of all mass shooting have been committed by white males.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> To be honest I am more afraid of being shot on campus by some whiny bitch(probably male and white) with no girlfriend than I am any ISIS dudes.


I am willing to bet more campus crimes are committed by non-whites than by whiny white dudes.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 23, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> I am willing to bet more campus crimes are committed by non-whites than by whiny white dudes.



I'm willing to say I'm more likely to be killed by someone of any race on an American College campus than by Islamic Terrorists. That is sad. It has to do with race only in so much as yes white men do it most often.

I think it is sad that when terrorists attack suddenly we are appalled by mass violence, even though it happens in the US at an appalling rate.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 23, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> I am willing to bet more campus crimes are committed by non-whites than by whiny white dudes.



Maybe but campus crime do not equal mass shootings....

I think mass shootings are domestic terrorism. They are certainly as traumatic to those affected. Just because they don't have political ideology(or they aren't a different religion) somehow makes them not terrorism? I think that is stupid.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 23, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I'm willing to say I'm more likely to be killed by someone of any race on an American College campus than by Islamic Terrorists. That is sad. It has to do with race only in so much as yes white men do it most often.
> 
> I think it is sad that when terrorists attacks suddenly we are appalled by mass violence, even though it happens in the US at an appalling rate.



Hmmm, you are talking about a specific location (college campus) that has a majority of white people. You're also stating that mass shooting amount for an appalling rate of violence in this country. You are twisting the situation to fit your personal view.

That said, even using data to justify your comments that you "fear the whiny armed white man" you are not addressing the demographics of violent crimes committed on college campuses by proportions of whites vs black, Asian, etc.

The other issue, is not taking into account the projection of what will or can happen. You may not fear Islamic extremists at school, but you may want to review that position in the future when attending large public venues. It might not be coming to a town near you, hell I hope it doesn't come at all, but to dismiss and ignore the current probability, would be IMO foolish and dangerous.

That said, I do understand your POV and would agree that if I was in college, crazy whiny white dude would be on my "avoid and be situational aware" list.


----------



## JBS (Nov 24, 2015)

I feel zero threat from campus shooters.

For one thing, they are incredibly rare.  Around 6 - 7 mass shootings (counting any incident with 3 or more fatalities) since 2010.

For another, they are not coordinating with each other to work in groups or cells (although there might be one or two exceptions in the past 20 years).

I'm concerned not because right now I believe there's  a threat from Jihadis.  I'm concerned because right now I believe the IS will succeed in establishing a caliphate and will then gradually export fighters- many per month - into the United States.  At present, IS fighters in Syria and the greater region probably number more than 300,000.  Fighters are arriving there daily.   They're serious.  I think the United States and most of Europe has been almost completely asleep at the wheel as this organization explodes in numbers.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Hmmm, you are talking about a specific location (college campus) that has a majority of white people. You're also stating that mass shooting amount for an appalling rate of violence in this country. You are twisting the situation to fit your personal view.
> 
> That said, even using data to justify your comments that you "fear the whiny armed white man" you are not addressing the demographics of violent crimes committed on college campuses by proportions of whites vs black, Asian, etc.
> 
> ...



Schools are just an example dude. Race has almost nothing to do with it. The fact is that in any large public area I am more likely to be killed by a lone gunman acting out his own kill Boner. I used college(but could substitute movie theaters post offices, the street in Santa Barbara)  as an example because I am on campus... For fucks sake two pages ago you posted a picture video highlighting all the mass shootings! This conversation isn't about violent crime, we had that conversation a while back while you were ...on a break.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

All of this is off topic and only came up because we were talking about changing our routine because of a threat of ISiS. I will ease back off into lurking in this thread.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2015)

My apologies, I didn't know it had been discussed in depth, and I was only attempting to engage you in the conversation regarding "not fearing Islamic extremists".


----------



## JBS (Nov 24, 2015)

@TLDR20 and @Freefalling  : FWIW, I think your comments and observations above are not only relevant and worthy of mentioning, but also cast on interesting light on the topic.

You're citing a directly comparable threat (domestic terrorism vs. foreign-sponsored terrorism) and the (similar) dangers they pose to the civilian population in a modern city within the developed world (any European or North American city).  If it's not discussed here in this thread, it would be great in its own thread.


----------



## AWP (Nov 24, 2015)

I broke off the domestic vs. international terrorism discussion. If you think we should pull over the "How to fight the crazies" posts, say something.

Back to the show. Readyyyyyyyyy FIGHT!


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

JBS said:


> @TLDR20 and @Freefalling  : FWIW, I think your comments and observations above are not only relevant and worthy of mentioning, but also cast on interesting light on the topic.
> 
> You're citing a directly comparable threat (domestic terrorism vs. foreign-sponsored terrorism) and the (similar) dangers they pose to the civilian population in a modern city within the developed world (any European or North American city).  If it's not discussed here in this thread, it would be great in its own thread.



Ok. I think that we pigeonhole terrorism into a neatly defined little sector of our society, but I think that any mass shooting is terrorism, regardless of the motivations of the shooter. Workplace violence??? Nope, that shit is terrorism, school shootings..? Terrorism. The point may not be an underlying political ideology, but their point is to terrorize nonetheless. I have been nervous in theaters since the shit with Batman in Colorado. I think it is easier for someone to conduct a mass shooting by themselves than it is for a terrorist cell to operate or successfully attack here in the US. I think that has proven true time and again. Look at @Diamondback 2/2 's post with the mass shootings, and tell me straightfaced that those shootings are not a greater threat to me than the terrorist activities taking place in the US over the comparable amount of time. 

I did bring up race only to point out that crazy isn't just a middle eastern problem. Terrorists (used as I see them, anyone conducting mass violence) come in all races, shapes and ideologies, but here in America you are more likely to be shot by a white guy if you are white(I am) a black guy if you are black, so on.... My chance of being a white guy killed by a middle eastern terrorist is almost zero. I don't change my pattern of life to avoid it. I do think about getting killed in a movie theater and I get phone alerts any time there is even a possibility of a shooter near campus so that fills my life with warnings. 

Lone wolf style attacks are the easiest way to strike fear into a populace. I cannot believe there haven't been shootings at major shopping malls yet. It is so easy to get a gun in America, which while awesome for me, also gives me pause, because that scorned kid, or that radicalized young man, needs only an ID and can walk out of a store with an AR and a plan the same day....


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2015)

I'm going to avoid the gun control debate portion.

There have been shopping center mass shooting's, there have been groups of Islamic extremists who have attempted mass shootings, one recently here in Texas that was stopped cold.

Mass shooting are as much a domestic people issue as Islamic extremists issue. I don't think we will ever do away with mass shooting, partially due to the population size, partially due to mental health issues, partially due to twisted thinking that is ever present in the newer generations, etc. However, I think its unwise to completely dismiss the Islamic extremists threat, simply because its hasn't happened on a regular bases, here in the states. Based on what is going on with IS controlled area refugee's, based on the reports that one was in on the Paris attack, based on the current administration pushing to allow these refugees in without guaranteed vetting (if that's even possible) and with IS stating they want to exploit this to attack Americans, and the calling for American Muslims to attack here at home with mass shooting style events. I think it is a very credible threat, I think it is likely to happen often and soon. I also think people should be aware of these things and prepare themselves for it, sharpen up on their situational awareness and have a plan. I'm not calling for mass hysteria, but if my opinion is right, we're going to need to deal with it, before it become common practice. I think that's the debate we should be having. Not to say the domestic nut job is not as equally or even more a current problem. I'm willing to debate the domestic nut job, but it seems to me when ever I do try it devolves into the gun control debate, and I've kicked that dead horse enough.


----------



## AWP (Nov 24, 2015)

Personally I'm not worried about either but what does scare me is how we'll attempt to prevent such attacks. Gun control, increased electronic surveillance, the continued militarization of a poor to moderately-trained local police force, and a general decrease in civil liberties are all much, much more worrisome to me than a gunman.

We can argue about attacks, but the above will be a much greater problem IMO.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Personally I'm not worried about either but what does scare me is how we'll attempt to prevent such attacks. Gun control, increased electronic surveillance, the continued militarization of a poor to moderately-trained local police force, and a general decrease in civil liberties are all much, much more worrisome to me than a gunman.
> 
> We can argue about attacks, but the above will be a much greater problem IMO.


I agree with the last portion of not wanting screw with civil liberties. Well to an extent, as I've stated I'm no okay with those liberties being extended to Syrian refugees at this current moment.

However, I'm curious as to why you state you are not concerned with an active shooter event happening in a town near you?


----------



## Brill (Nov 24, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> ...what does scare me is how we'll attempt to prevent such attacks. Gun control,* increased electronic surveillance*, the continued militarization of a poor to moderately-trained local police force, and a general decrease in civil liberties are all much, much more worrisome to me than a gunman.





Why are you so anti-police nowadays?


----------



## AWP (Nov 24, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> However, I'm curious as to why you state you are not concerned with an active shooter event happening in a town near you?



Can it happen? Sure. I don't worry about it because they are rare in the grand scheme of things and I'm not going to live my life worrying about the boogieman around the corner. There's being aware of my surroundings and this sort of hypervigilence being pushed upon us. In some cases I think our desire for security is feeding into our paranoia. I will not live my life in fear or a constant state of worry or on the edge of my seat.


----------



## JBS (Nov 24, 2015)

@TLDR20 

Some of what you say is not a reflection of the actual threats you face.

For instance, you've posted a number of times- in this thread and others- of how your real concern is "a white guy with a gun", something to that effect.  Yet, as a white man, you are statistically far more likely to be attacked by a black male.



> Using figures for the 2013 racial mix of the population–62.2 percent white, 17.1 percent Hispanic, 13.2 percent black–we can calculate the average likelihood of a person of each race attacking the other. *A black is 27 times more likely to attack a white and 8 times more likely to attack a Hispanic than the other way around. * {snip}
> 
> New DOJ Statistics on Race and Violent Crime


 


Also, along the same line of thought, there are some dangers that deserve our attention well in advance of their maturation, not just "how often" such matters have been a threat in the past.   Take nuclear weapons as an example:  they've only ever been used a tiny handful of times, yet I think we'd agree that if there were a credible chance of them falling into the wrong hands, the threat would have to be confronted no matter the cost.  NOBODY would say "nuke attacks are so rare that we don't need to respond".   It's not just the probability of attack at present.  It's the changing probability as capability increases.   As capability increases the threat increases.  The dangers of such a threat coming to fruition are so great that we'd go to any length to stop it.  Similarly, Islamic terrorism is largely still in the "gathering" phase of a threat.  Comparing this to white lone gunmen, in my view, is not taking into account what the _ potential _ destruction can become.

This is why I say that ISIS poses such a grave threat to the west in the long term if not confronted and annihilated now.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

But, 82% of crime against whites is committed by other whites. It says so in the data you posted. So my chances of being attacked by a white person are greater. A black person is more likely to attack a white person, than a white person is to attack a black sure... But there aren't that many blacks comparatively to whites therefore my statement stands up.

I agree international terrorism is a threat.I would like to think we could consider all violence a problem rather than just caring when it is committed by Muslims. That was my point with all of this.

I think we should go kill this at the source. We should be engaged with ISIS in a way that leads to those fuckers dead or dying. Bombing direct action, the gambit..

But I also think pretending every Muslim is a terrorist, or every immigrant is a terrorist is fucking laughable. I think that it is embarrassing the levels of stupidity that our politicians are throwing around relating to it. I think that people who generalize so greatly are idiots(;)). However I don't have answers. I don't claim to, I don't k is how to properly vet the people we want  vs the people who are bad. I bet there are smart people working the issue though.


----------



## Rapid (Nov 24, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I think that any mass shooting is terrorism, regardless of the motivations of the shooter. Workplace violence??? Nope, that shit is terrorism, school shootings..? Terrorism. The point may not be an underlying political ideology, but their point is to terrorize nonetheless.



So we're just doing away with definitions now?

Not all spree shooters aim to terrorise. Some are just severely fucked in the head. Those people aren't in a mental state that would allow them to fully appreciate what they're doing. That's what separates them from the 'logical thinking' terrorists. 'Logical thinking' only in the sense of how they plan out their actions and how they are clear in their intent.

We can do a LOT more to fix how we care for, monitor and treat those who are severely unstable. We nearly always know who they are; with those few who do go on a rampage, it's nearly always a case of the system (including their parents) having failed them. On the other hand, you can't do much to fix people who harbor an ideology that's rotten to the core, hiding in the shadows, waiting for the right moment to strike. All we can do is try to avoid creating more of them, wherever reasonable.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

Rapid said:


> So we're just doing away with definitions now?
> 
> Not all spree shooters aim to terrorise. Some are just severely fucked in the head. Those people aren't in a mental state that would allow them to fully appreciate what they're doing. That's what separates them from the 'logical thinking' terrorists. 'Logical thinking' only in the sense of how they plan out their actions and how they are clear in their intent.
> 
> We can do a LOT more to fix how we care for, monitor and treat those who are severely unstable. We nearly always know who they are; with those few who do go on a rampage, it's nearly always a case of the system (including their parents) having failed them. On the other hand, you can't do much to fix people who harbor an ideology that's rotten to the core, hiding in the shadows, waiting for the right moment to strike. All we can do is try to avoid creating more of them, wherever reasonable.



Do you live in a country where there are mass shootings every couple of months?

We in America seem incapable of even saying there is a problem.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Do you live in a country where there are mass shootings every couple of months?
> 
> We in America seem incapable of even saying there is a problem.



I don't think anyone here is saying there is not a problem with nut-job mass killers. Hell yes we have a problem, and absolutely it needs to be addressed. But one group thinks its a gun control issue and the other thinks its a crazy people problem. 

That said, the United States is not the only country that deals with nut-job mass killers. It's just much more publicized here in the states.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 24, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying there is not a problem with nut-job mass killers. Hell yes we have a problem, and absolutely it needs to be addressed. But one group thinks its a gun control issue and the other thinks its a crazy people problem.
> 
> That said, the United States is not the only country that deals with nut-job mass killers. It's just much more publicized here in the states.



I don't know how true that is. 

Obviously other countries have them. But we have a whole lot more than anyone else.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 24, 2015)

Come on bro, I know you know better than that, specifically in Mexico. There are historic mass killing beyond anything the United States has ever seen, all throughout central/south America's, Africa, Indonesia, etc, etc. Historically, our mass shooting ain't shit compared to the rest of the world. I mean in all honesty Paris isn't that large of a mass shooting, historically speaking...


----------



## pardus (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I don't know how true that is.
> 
> Obviously other countries have them. But we have a whole lot more than anyone else.



Nonsense.  
I would give you credit if you'd said First World/Western countries maybe. But as a blanket statement, nonsense. 



Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Come on bro, I know you know better than that, specifically in Mexico. There are historic mass killing beyond anything the United States has ever seen, all throughout central/south America's, Africa, Indonesia, etc, etc. Historically, our mass shooting ain't shit compared to the rest of the world. I mean in all honesty Paris isn't that large of a mass shooting, historically speaking...



Yup.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 25, 2015)

pardus said:


> Nonsense.
> I would give you credit if you'd said First World/Western countries maybe. But as a blanket statement, nonsense.
> 
> 
> ...



That is what we are talking about is it not? Obviously we don't compare to Iraq, in anything. Mexico is basically a warzone in parts, I didn't feel the need to clarify because I thought it was that obvious.


----------



## Rapid (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Do you live in a country where there are mass shootings every couple of months?
> 
> We in America seem incapable of even saying there is a problem.



There are a number of European countries where citizens are allowed to own firearms. There would be just as many shootings over there if it weren't for the fact that the mentally ill are generally better cared for & monitored, and also because they wouldn't be allowed to get a permit in the first place. You can work on those things and fix them, over time, if you have the will to do so.

Islamic extremism is different. It doesn't matter if it's only a "minority" of Muslims. When you bring in large numbers of them, say 10,000 people, there are bound to be some who could become a danger one day. And as events such as the Boston bombings show, it only takes one or two people. At best, you'll need increased surveillance to tackle that risk. You already have a number of dangerous people in your country. Why would you even risk bringing in more? The point here is that you have the choice. And if you wanted to bring in people who need protection because of what's been going on in the ME, I can think of a lot more deserving people (e.g., terps).

With Muslims, all you can do is hope to not radicalise even more of them. Even so, we can't just let extremists dictate every single thing we do. We can't hesitate on important matters just because we might upset the Islamic world. That's their fucking problem if they get upset -- there are other ways to air your grievances than terrorism. So perhaps the solution is to stop being so afraid of offending Muslims and to start telling them _exactly_ what's wrong with their attitudes, i.e. the rampant conspiracy theories, the complaint culture, etc... the kind of stuff that drives 'moderates' to have more sympathy for their radical Muslim brothers than for the Kafir. They can't stamp out extremism in their communities until they start rejecting all that bullshit, point blank.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 25, 2015)

]

Top 5 Fallacies About Syrian Refugees To The US, Debunked
I'm just going to put this up here.


----------



## x SF med (Nov 25, 2015)

The radical extremists are not solely aligned with the Islamic Jihad...  throughout the late 70's and 80's, into the 90's  the Red Army Faction, PIRA, Baader-Meinhof, Red Hand, Brigante Rosa, Shining Path, African Liberation Movement and a host of other 'politically' motivated extremeist terror organizations were very active...  they got some newsplay, but not nearly the newsplay that ISIS is getting.   Those aforementioned groups were the reason certain SMU's were created, and the SF mission was so focused on anti-terror and FID/UW/SR/TR....  It was the 'coldest part' of the Cold War...  to the civilians, not in the SOF world.

Pull off some of the media coverage, and allow the specialists to combat them, and there might be a downturn in the acts of terror....  the first thing is to quit giving them the huge voice in the media.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Top 5 Fallacies About Syrian Refugees To The US, Debunked
> I'm just going to put this up here.


So, would you give Syrian refugees preference over the thousands of interpreters/translators and their families that directly helped our troops in Iraq/Afghanistan, many of whom have waited years for special Visas to be approved while being persecuted in their own countries?


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 25, 2015)

Blizzard said:


> So, would you give Syrian refugees preference over the thousands of interpreters/translators and their families that directly helped our troops in Iraq/Afghanistan, many of whom have waited years for special Visas to be approved while being persecuted in their own countries?



I didn't say that. I think we have room for both. I think those terps should get to come here. It isn't the fault of the refugees that our government screwed the pooch on the terps.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 25, 2015)

Fair enough.  But our government isn't seriously giving that issue any attention; and there is no legit explanation for the inaction.  It's my standpoint that before there is any further discussion about taking on any other refugees, they solve that problem.  We need to have the right priorities.


----------



## Frank S. (Nov 25, 2015)

Rapid said:


> There would be just as many shootings over there if it weren't for the fact that the mentally ill are generally better cared for & monitored, and also because they wouldn't be allowed to get a permit in the first place. *You can work on those things and fix them, over time, if you have the will to do so.*



Here's a thing about care, monitoring and treatment of the mentally ill as I see it in the US. It's all wrapped up in one word and that is "dealing". Dealing with the mentally ill has devolved to Law Enforcement. A family in crisis calls 911 for a relative acting irrational/aggressive, cops will be dispatched. Afterwards if the situation escalated in the shooting death of said relative, people will clamor and rant against cops who, in perhaps minutes at best, have to basically diagnose, manage and de-escalate the situation.
People say they don't care how long it takes to accomplish if a human life is at stake.
Bullshit. Compassion extends only as far as the beginning of inconvenience. You block a freeway on ramp, or here in the Bay Area, a bridge due to a suicidal individual and I guarantee people will call out to the motherfucker to jump within five minutes of sitting in traffic. With their cell phones out just in case it gets gory.
I digress: there is no end to this.
As to terrorism it's always struck me as a blind men and the elephant problem. There isn't just one solution, there are nails, screws, pegs and other types of fasteners to be used with varying levels of pressure. Nothing is uniform and there are no shortcuts.
When the shit hits as it did in Paris,among other places recently, people will change their  FaceBook profile pic to the French flag (like I did), go rah-rah for a few weeks and generally go through the expected motions. Ultimately they're just glad it happened elsewhere. I said it before, History is a car crash. You slow down just long enough to check out if there's still bodies in the wreckage and take a shot maybe a short clip. Then you speed back up, relieved it wasn't you. But as good as the show was, it was forgettable. Not unlike porn.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> ]
> 
> Top 5 Fallacies About Syrian Refugees To The US, Debunked
> I'm just going to put this up here.



Not sure who wrote the article, but seems the numbers are a bit off.

UNHCR Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean

22% are children.
16% are women.
62% are men.

Unless I'm misreading the article and data, it would seem those numbers are a tad-bit off.

ETA: This figure is calling it 49.7% male with 50% female.

UNHCR Syria Regional Refugee Response

ETA2: Looks like the state department walked back on their "only 2% are males statement" and are now stating its 50/50 male/female, maybe more male.

"Half of the Syrian refugees brought to the U.S. so far have been children; a quarter [1] are adults over 60. And I think you will have heard that only 2 percent are single males of combat age. So we – there’s slightly more – it’s roughly 50/50 men and women, slightly more men I would say, but not – not a lot more men"

Background Briefing on Refugee Screening and Admissions


----------



## Salt USMC (Nov 25, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Not sure who wrote the article, but seems the numbers are a bit off.
> 
> UNHCR Refugees/Migrants Emergency Response - Mediterranean
> 
> ...


You're comparing two different data sets.  The UNHCR figures are for refugees fleeing to Mediterranean countries.  From the information disclaimer: "The figures on this website reflect only sea arrivals in the Mediterranean.  The figures do not include persons arriving by other means and outside Mediterranean coasts."  The numbers quoted in the Havok Journal article (ironically from the same source that you quoted) pulls their numbers from "the 2,500 Syrians we’ve [the US] taken in recently"


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 25, 2015)

So am I wrong, didn't that DoS official state that the 2% figure is wrong. As it reads in the havoc article it states the 2% figure, however the same article they quote says that its actually 50/50 male/female and actually slightly more male.

Am I misreading that?


----------



## Salt USMC (Nov 25, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Did you look at the other two links and the quote from the state department itself?


Yes.  I looked at them.  I saw it when it was quoted in the Havok Journal article on the second page.  That's why I said that it was ironic that you cited it.

Edit: Okay, I see what you're talking about.  Little bitty footnote at the bottom, where "a quarter" becomes 2.5%


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 25, 2015)

Shit I edited my question too late.


----------



## Salt USMC (Nov 25, 2015)

It is roughly 50/50 male/female, but only 22% of the total is what we would consider a "military-aged male".  That is, to say, a male between 18-59.  I suppose we could probably roll the 12-17 Male demographic into there, but that would only account for an additional 6%.


----------



## Brill (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> ]
> 
> Top 5 Fallacies About Syrian Refugees To The US, Debunked
> I'm just going to put this up here.



The background check portion of that article is accurate however very misleading.  So the numbers of refugees are actually lower...Paris just had 8 "refugees".

When IS rolled into Raqqah, SY and Mosul, IZ, they over ran the city, which was pretty much intact.  SY/IZ blank passports, the machines, and even some employees were absolutely untouched.

How can you vet legit documents that contain forged information?  The only people that get flagged are KNOWN to the system.

How many guys from Paris were known but undetected?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 25, 2015)

@Deathy McDeath thanks for the response bro, I'm still a bit confused, but appreciate the break down.


----------



## Rapid (Nov 25, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I didn't say that. I think we have room for both. I think those terps should get to come here. It isn't the fault of the refugees that our government screwed the pooch on the terps.



You're starting off with the assumption that America (or any other Western country) owes shit to anyone. In fact, you don't need to accept a single damn person.

The problem with Islam isn't just violent extremism. There's a host of other multicultural delights that Europe is blessed with... You really want to welcome the type of issues places like France or England suffer from, _voluntarily_? Muslims are the only group of people who have failed to integrate in Western Europe, but it's not an issue of failed integration on our part (unless you count not bending to Sharia law and other absurdities) since most other cultures manage to integrate just fine over here. And it won't be any different in the US if you start importing them by the thousands.


----------



## The Hate Ape (Nov 25, 2015)

@Rapid
One theory of fault lies in the industrial revolution and development of transportation in neighboring countries essentially bypassing the Muslims of the region. Other cultures adapted, progressed, at times digressed... shit changed to say it in layman's terms on a social/cultural scale for many reasons that are linked to the age. The Muslims didn't - nothing changed and they expanded. When they caught up (mostly) they were not prepared for what the world had become.

As far as fears or concerns regarding mass-murderers, lone wolf incidents, and ISIS in general - they are all a joke IMHO. The only time I worry about the first two (for my family) is while deployed which I _am_ currently. For the third category, I feel that the Taliban were more formidable than ISIS in the Micro of things but those are my own opinions/perspectives/experiences. As OIR remains in it's infancy the only relevant picture for the media to portray of ISIS is the Macro. From a distance ISIS appears well managed/organized, well funded/equipped, driven/motivated, but the reality is that they get their shit pushed in consistently on equal circumstances of Coalition/Peshmerga forces and their own (ISIS) bone-headed tactical decisions. My stance currently is that if we wiped out ISIS tomorrow: Kurdistan would tear itself apart, Iraq would allow for a new flavor of the month, and we would be holding our d*cks wondering what to do with it.

What I fear most are the knee jerk reactions that influence policy - they come from the incidents of the first two categories in the form of a solution. As American patriots we assume that the government is governed by its leadership and sound judgement, by the close watch of the people. The truth is that we're all governed by the mass hysteria, fear, and emotions that influence the masses. Everything is a tragedy or an outcry - _fuck you dude..._

Fully agree with those who are against receiving refugees from Syria and the article posted earlier was full of generalizations. The author failed to mention or genuinely explain our lack of capabilities for investigating subjects who come from relatively disconnected worlds. @TLDR20

Without getting into the Rabbit hole too far  - how could anyone reasonably/logically expect the United States of America or any country of that matter to retrieve, review, generate, or process thorough background investigations involving one on one screenings, bio metrics, and database screening for example on a group of people who likely has no data or records to begin with? There is nothing linking them to the rest of the world. It will not happen. The same is why most Afghans encountered are born January 1st (whatever year they look) because simply put, they don't fucking know, and neither will we (hence the Afghan birthday joke on New Years). #HVGC'13-14

I do not believe it is un-American to turn away refugees, I believe it is an intelligent and conservative viewpoint that is best for *our* people and not _their_ people. Certainly we could cite the many refugees we have taken in historically, most relevant being the Kurdish refugees in Tennessee from the Saddam period. But that is by no means a requirement and should be determined subjectively; bringing any mass populous into a society must never be a reaction... ever. I'm tired of reading/listening to news outlets portray some sense of guilt as if we're not doing our part.

Well we fight the GWOT pretty hard - I'd say that's a pretty big part we're doing.

Should we decide to take them in, one bad encounter will not only become a case for refugees _never_ coming to the United States - but an added case on immigration, visitation (visa's and stuff), etc... In the grand scheme of things you risk much more by bringing the refugees over than leaving them where they are. If anyone is in a good position to take these guys in, it is Turkey.



R/


H/A


Our people are pretty dumb and astonishingly, much of the world is even dumber.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 30, 2015)

The Colorado Planned Parenthood shooter is largely being called a domestic terrorist at this point. Although I agree that he is a terrorist, I am a bit taken back by the media being at ease to call some old crazy white guy a terrorist for killing people, where other shooters like former Army Maj Hassan and his rampage was considered work place violence. Just an observation.

That said, I'm interested to learn more details on this shooting. It appears to me to be a very low body count, for such a long 'active' shooting incident. There were reports of active gun fire between LE and the shooter well into the incident, and it would seem that the body count would or should have been much higher. It would be interesting (for me) to learn the detail's on what his intentions were, who and how many he intended to kill and how LE's response altered the shooters abilities to execute his plan.


----------



## Salt USMC (Nov 30, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The Colorado Planned Parenthood shooter is largely being called a domestic terrorist at this point. Although I agree that he is a terrorist, I am a bit taken back by the media being at ease to call some old crazy white guy a terrorist for killing people, where other shooters like former Army Maj Hassan and his rampage was considered work place violence. Just an observation.


I don't think that the media was classifying it as "workplace violence".  I think that was just the Obama administration.


----------



## AWP (Nov 30, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I don't think that the media was classifying it as "workplace violence".  I think that was just the Obama administration.



Which is tragic when the highest office in the land is more out of touch than the media.


----------



## Grunt (Nov 30, 2015)

Tragically, I think the "T" word is only used when it is beneficial to either the MSM or the government. It's use is most important to them, because the sheeple are only concerned with what they are told since they don't do any independent thinking of their own.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 30, 2015)

I thought the government called the Ft.Hood shooting a terrorist attack. Didn't those soldiers get Purple Hearts?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 30, 2015)

If you remember back the big issue was the liberal media and Obama wouldn't call it a terror attack. Yes, congress voted to award the victims purple hearts. I was only using it as an example. It just seems to me, and it may be unfounded, that when its a crazy white guy he is a terrorist, when its a radical Muslim or a or any other ethnicity, they are just criminal murderer's, etc. Probably unfounded, but after watching/reading news over the past few years that these shooting have become more common, it just seems the media is fast to pegg the domestic terrorist that fits their ideals of crazy white boys in the hills going crazy. Which in the specific case, that appears to be exactly what it is.


----------



## Gunz (Nov 30, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I thought the government called the Ft.Hood shooting a terrorist attack. Didn't those soldiers get Purple Hearts?


 
They did. It's a terrorist attack if the Secretary of the Army says it is.


----------



## racing_kitty (Nov 30, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I thought the government called the Ft.Hood shooting a terrorist attack. Didn't those soldiers get Purple Hearts?



It only took six years to make it happen.

Edit: Correction, 5.5 years


----------



## Brill (Nov 30, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The Colorado Planned Parenthood shooter is largely being called a domestic terrorist at this point.



I think the brain trust known as MSM is confusing "using fear to further a political agenda" with a MORAL agenda.  If that is the case...then Islam is terrorist organization.


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 2, 2015)

This comic does a fairly good job at summarizing my feelings on the right media's reaction to the PP shooting


----------



## JBS (Dec 2, 2015)

Mass ISIS support demonstration on the streets of Germany:



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 
Good job, Merkel.


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 2, 2015)

Nitpicking a little, but that video is about three and a half years old, and apparently it was one of those anti-cartoon protests.


Here's the translated video from MEMRI





Possibly related to this: Muhammad Cartoons Shown in Germany: Salafists Attack Police at Far-Right Rally - SPIEGEL ONLINE


----------



## Brill (Dec 10, 2015)

Yep...seems legit.

Large quantity of cellphones bought raises red flags


----------



## Red-Dot (Dec 10, 2015)

JBS said:


> Mass ISIS support demonstration on the streets of Germany:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Viper 22.....you are cleared hot.


----------



## AWP (Dec 10, 2015)

lindy said:


> Yep...seems legit.
> 
> Large quantity of cellphones bought raises red flags



Hey, "if you see something, say something" right? Live by the slogan, die by the slogan.


----------



## Brill (Dec 10, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Hey, "if you see something, say something" right? Live by the slogan, die by the slogan.



Wasn't there a sheriff in AZ that was called on the carpet and labeled a racist for "seeing something and doing something"?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 10, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I thought the government called the Ft.Hood shooting a terrorist attack. Didn't those soldiers get Purple Hearts?


Eventually, yes.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 10, 2015)

If I was a terror cell supply guy, I would buy all of our ops burner phones in one whack, at the same store, all at once.

Buy all my pipes and caps for pipe bombs at a store that sold black powder too. Don't want to waste gas money spreading that shit out...


----------



## Brill (Dec 10, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> If I was a terror cell supply guy, I would buy all of our ops burner phones in one whack, at the same store, all at once.
> 
> Buy all my pipes and caps for pipe bombs at a store that sold black powder too. Don't want to waste gas money spreading that shit out...



Yep and we were going to execute a beach landing in the first Gulf War.


----------



## pardus (Dec 10, 2015)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Nitpicking a little, but that video is about three and a half years old, and apparently it was one of those anti-cartoon protests.
> 
> 
> Here's the translated video from MEMRI
> ...



And that's any better?


----------



## AWP (Dec 10, 2015)

lindy said:


> Wasn't there a sheriff in AZ that was called on the carpet and labeled a racist for "seeing something and doing something"?



Slow down, comrade, the slogan only matters when "our" side follows through, not "their" side. Don't you know anything?


----------

