# M-forgery build



## HeloMedic1171 (Jun 30, 2009)

so, I've been thinking....  I've been lusting over the Sig556, and I jut missed an opportunity to buy one prior to deployment....  but I want a gas-piston system in a weapon/caliber I'm familiar with.  I like the M4, I really do.  I just don't like cleaning it CONSTANTLY.  I want a weapon with reliability a la AK47, but with the accuracy more like an M14.  I thought building my own M4 would be a good compromise.  here's what I'm thinking - 

either:

Vltor MUR
Noveske Afghan barrel
Bushmaster gas-piston conversion or adam arms gas piston conversion
either a CAS-V rail system or knight's armament rail system
spike's tactical lower with some custom laser engraving and color fill in
Magpul trigger guard
ergo grip or tango down grip in OD
Vltor Emod in OD
and a QD sling swivel and rail-mounted sling mount, with some QDS sights up top.  top it off with my EOtech and perhaps later on, an ACOG.

or:

spike's has started taking orders for a piston upper.  it's essentially pin it to your lower and go - sights, rails, whole she-bang, just no optics. (obviously).  so, I go with :

spike's lower (same as above)
spike's piston upper
Emod
ergo/tango down grip
magpul trigger guard
same optics.

am I putting too many eggs in one manufacturer's basket?  I have head good things about spike's but never used them or handled their products... anyon have any experience they'd like to share?


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## arizonaguide (Jul 1, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> anyone have any experience they'd like to share?


Just that it's a bitch to get (some) parts right now. :cool: But, maybe that's half the fun of the adventure. :2c:


HeloMedic1171 said:


> I've been lusting over the Sig556


Got one at the shop that I stroke from time to time. :) Wish it was mine.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

how is Spike's reputation?  do they build good products?  I've priced this out, and it's going to cost me around 2000-2300, without optics.  no way around that, except to get the sig556. still debating on which one I'd rather have,  as the sig556 is around 1400-1600, and it's already built, all I'd add would be an Emod.  decisions, decisions...  thoughts?


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## arizonaguide (Jul 1, 2009)

There IS something to be said for the FUN and learning experience of building!
I have learned a TON in just the last few weeks since I started. Now to just find the various parts. SO MUCH is unavail/backorder right now.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm all for the experience of building, and I'd like to do it.  however, my primary concern is that I do not have any bullet launchers at all... so I'm all about bang for the buck at the moment. once I have a pistol or 2 and a rifle/carbine of some kind, I'll look into building... I can take my time with it at that point. :)


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## 8'Duece (Jul 1, 2009)

If you give me every single part that you mentioned I'll have it assembled for you in an hour.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

now, when you say, "assembled in an hour"...... do you mean the first list or the second?  do you have the tools to attach a barrel to an upper and headspace it??   that's something I'd need help with :)  the rest I can do meself.  

also, what sort of paperwork is required for things lke a supressor or building a carbine with a mil-spec barrel length (i.e. 14 inches instead of 16, or a short barrel carbine, like a 10")?  is it something anyone can do with the right aount of time and a clean arrest record?  or do I need  special FFL or something?


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## 8'Duece (Jul 1, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> now, when you say, "assembled in an hour"...... do you mean the first list or the second?  do you have the tools to attach a barrel to an upper and headspace it??   that's something I'd need help with :)  the rest I can do meself.
> 
> also, what sort of paperwork is required for things lke a supressor or building a carbine with a mil-spec barrel length (i.e. 14 inches instead of 16, or a short barrel carbine, like a 10")?  is it something anyone can do with the right aount of time and a clean arrest record?  or do I need  special FFL or something?




Yes, I have all the tools necessary for an AR build and for headspace and timing the barrel.

FOR A SHORT BARRELED RIFLE:  

You need to file a Form 1 with BATFE with pass port photos and fingerprints and the Chief of LEO in your city or county sign off on it.  Two sets of the Form 1 are required. It cost $200 for this stupid transaction. 

Your Chief of Police shouldn't be a turd about signing the Form 1.  If he is, then go to your county Sherrif and get him to sign it.  It's not their right nor duty to decide who to sign off and who not too, but it does happen. 

After all, your going to be scrutinized by the BATFE and the FBI to get the tax stamp approval on your form.

No need for any FFL.  If you can legally buy a gun you can get a Form 1 and Form 4 approved, it just takes a lot of time before you actually pin the shorty upper on your lower and fire the damn thing.  You can own and possess the shorty upper, just don't get caught shooting it without your approved Form 1 with you. 

HTH


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

you rock.  thanks.  and the can??  same story?


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## koz (Jul 1, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> FOR A SHORT BARRELED RIFLE:
> 
> You need to file a Form 1 with BATFE with pass port photos and fingerprints and the Chief of LEO in your city or county sign off on it.  Two sets of the Form 1 are required. It cost $200 for this stupid transaction.
> 
> ...



H-Medic  - You may also think about setting up a NFA trust for your Class3 stuff. Here's a link You can avoid the Chief LEO (in case he/she doesn't like guns), no finger-prints, and the most important is that anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of the weapon/suppressor.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

good idea.  so these various forms and tax stamps....  I know 82n said I can own the shorty upper before getting the go-ahead from the BATF, but what about a suppressor?  do I need to egister for one before I actually get it in my hands?  

I plan on registering my stuff in GA or FL, since that's where I'll likely be living for the next few years.  my Dad is bar-certified in both states, so I can ask him to draft the paperwork for me.  thanks for the info, Koz :)


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## arizonaguide (Jul 1, 2009)

Awsome THREAD!!! :cool:


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 1, 2009)

koz said:


> H-Medic  - You may also think about setting up a NFA trust for your Class3 stuff. Here's a link You can avoid the Chief LEO (in case he/she doesn't like guns), no finger-prints, and the most important is that anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of the weapon/suppressor.



Yeah a trust is the easy way, you can alos do an LLC but it cost more depending on what state you do it through... 

Our LE chief in San Antonio is a clown and wont let you have anything cool. So just about everyone I know with NFA toy's has a trust or llc.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

cool.  also means it's harder to sue me for some dumb shit regarding the weapons.  I'm not a crazy gun-hoarding lunatic (yet....)  I just want to own similar hardware to the shit I use on the job - both for home defense and for practice, cuz we all know the army doesn't train enough on marksmanship.  right J?  looking forward to practicing what you taught me about the front sight post.


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## koz (Jul 1, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> good idea.  so these various forms and tax stamps....  I know 82n said I can own the shorty upper before getting the go-ahead from the BATF, but what about a suppressor?  do I need to egister for one before I actually get it in my hands?
> 
> I plan on registering my stuff in GA or FL, since that's where I'll likely be living for the next few years.  my Dad is bar-certified in both states, so I can ask him to draft the paperwork for me.  thanks for the info, Koz :)



A lot of people say before you assemble the SBR upper, you should have a tax-stamp in hand.  Or put a cable lock thru it and throw the key away until you get a stamp.  If the ATF feels that you have used the SBR upper without a stamp it could be a little messy.  Or make sure you have the story down of how you use it for your military service.  

 The suppressor, you better have the stamp or it could get real bad very quick.  Your best case is the ATF will make you forfeit your suppressor/SBR upper -  worst case you'll be a felon, spend 10yrs in jail and get fined $10k.  Don't risk it.  

The process for the suppressor - You'll find a dealer that has the one you want.  If that dealer is out of your state, you'll need to find a class 3 dealer in your state that will do the transfer.  The selling dealer will get the suppressor to your dealer.  You'll start the Form 4 paperwork and the dealer will store the suppressor.  You'll submit the paperwork and $200 to the ATF and then you'll wait..  When the paperwork is sent back with the Tax-stamp, the dealer will notify you and you get your suppressor.  It could be as fast as a month and could take 6 months.  My understanding is the Trusts or LLC's go thru quicker since there is less background check/ fingerprints to do.  

Another info link  - www.guntrustlawyer.com


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 1, 2009)

so, in other words, paperwork first - got it.  thanks. I'll start planning now.


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## koz (Jul 1, 2009)

Here's a good reason to be careful with NFA stuff.
True story - 
Guy files for divorce.  Mad soon to be ex-wife calls the local PD and tells them her soon to be ex is stockpiling weapons and he's a member of the military and must have military weapons.  PD calls ATF and ATF comes a knocking fortunately just on the door and politely but 8 agents in "raid" jackets.  

Guy has to open both of his safes (well he didn't have to but they would have gotten a warrant and made him) and they also proceed to go thru all his kit.  Every serial number is copied, # of rounds documented and while going thru the kit, there was a flash-bang stuck in his assault gear.  That can be one Felony.  As they go thru the guns, he has a cobray M11 that a family member gave him. The function check didn't quite seem right.  He has to surrender this weapon for testing (and that also means he's not getting it back since he surrendered it) - possible Felony #2.  

ATF comes back two months later and says Cobray was fine (not illegally converted) but it would be destroyed.  They said no charges would be filed on the flashbang since it came back to the unit he was in and there wasn't any intent to harm people (ie no nails taped to it).  But there was a 3 year window that they would keep his infractions on file and if he got in any trouble - they would prosecute to the fullest.  

Cooperation probably helped him escape charges (he could have also been charged with misdemeanor improper storage of an explosive) but it nearly ruined his life.  

Just food for thought -


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 1, 2009)

LWRC makes a pretty good Gas piston.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 4, 2009)

LWRC?  who's that?  got links?


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 4, 2009)

found links.  nice piece!  now to find out where I can buy one.  the M6A2 in 21.1" or 14.7"  looks like what I'm after.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 4, 2009)

that's 12.1" not 21.1"... couldn't edit my post due to the shaky connection here....


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## 8'Duece (Jul 4, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> that's 12.1" not 21.1"... couldn't edit my post due to the shaky connection here....



Here's an LWRC M6A1 with all the nice features. Gas Piston, EMOD stock, rail system, enhanced trigger G, rail covers, LaRue light mount, Novak light, sling and some other goodies. 

I think the bidding is over, but you might contact the seller though Gunbrokers email system and see if it's still available. 

HERE: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132728170


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

nice piece!  I'm going to ask the seller if he has more or can get an A2.  thanks!  I'll posrt back in here if I have more questions, guys.


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## 8'Duece (Jul 5, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> nice piece!  I'm going to ask the seller if he has more or can get an A2.  thanks!  I'll posrt back in here if I have more questions, guys.



It's listed again on Gunbroker.com. :cool:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133298638

If you dont bid on it, I might just press the "Buy Now" button myself.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

shit, brother, I just don't have 2,600 sitting around yet!  :)  otherwise I'd be all over it tomorrow.  I'm planning and looking til September, that's when i get another installment of my active duty bonus and I can blow it on gunz.    but that thing is SEXY!!!!


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

what about this one??

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133110806


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## CBTech (Jul 5, 2009)

Parallel told me about this place he bought his AK from. They had outstanding customer service. They sel a SBR AR piston gun for like $1200 but can't find it on the site now, might give a call. http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=sbr-p


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## 8'Duece (Jul 5, 2009)

HeloMedic1171 said:


> what about this one??
> 
> http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133110806



The only differences that I can see with the nakid eye are the lack of an F marked standard front sight block.  This particular rifle has the Troy front and rear BUIS (back up iron sights) on it.  So it obviously has a low pro gas block underneath the rail. 

You would have to look at LWRC's website to know the differences betweens the A1 and A2 models.  Both are a piston driven operation and have all the goodies, less the mounts and such on the first one that I provided via Gunbroker. 

Both rifles are worth owning.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

82ndtrooper said:


> Both rifles are worth owning.



that's the part I wanted to hear.  I'm not a huge fan of the A-frame front sight and I'm not interested in a USGI authentic look, necessarily.  functionality, compatibility, familiarity, check check check.  but if I wanted a weapon exactly like the ones I'm issued in the conventional army, I'd buy the cheapest bushmaster and be done with it.  I'd love to build a weapon, and one day I probably will - but I think I've found exaclty what I want.  :)  I'll post pics when I finally get my hands on it.  thanks for all the help!    now if I could just make my mind up on a pistol...... :uhh:  :)


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## arizonaguide (Jul 5, 2009)

Springfield XDm or 1911. (beware of the dark side (Glock)) :cool:


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

way ahead of you.  :cool:  I'm a fan of both, notsomuch the glock.  just waiting til I can get back to the states.


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

OH, by the way  - looked at the XDm, and until they make it in .45ACP, I'm sticking with a regular XD or 1911.  I also like SigSauer pistols.  (P220 Combat TB..... yum)


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

another question - optics:  where's a good place to get them?  not chinesium knock-offs, but the real, no-shit ACOGs and EOtechs we all know and love (or hate, in some cases.... :) )  I'm not looking to skimp necessarily, but I don't want to get hosed either.  suggestions?


EDIT: is Gunbroker good for this kind of stuff?  and how's the quality of the merchandise you buy there?  I know a lot of people here swear by gunbroker.com......


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## CBTech (Jul 5, 2009)

Big proponent of Sig's "To hell and Back" mantra and fine weapons. But have you looked into S&W? The new M&P45 in .45 ACP is offered with  dark earth polymer frame, ambi safeties and 4.5-inch barrels.

For the optics you might want to try the Hero Gear guy on here. They are in TN, if you hook up with him he might be able to get you a SS.com deal. 

I could give you my guys name and number. He gives a different price for "us" and I got mine for his cost. 

Vern at S&S Custom Tactical - 985-649-1751


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jul 5, 2009)

hero gear is on here?  I'm familiar with him.  but you say Vern is your go-to guy?  I'll save his number and give him a call when i get stateside in Sept.  thanks CB :)

Haven't looked at the M&P pistols, maybe I should.  thanks for the suggestion.  I know their M&P carbines look just like imitation Colt or bushmaster weapons.  I'm sure they're fine pieces of equipment, but I see them all the time over here - not impressed.  guess I translated that to the handguns too....   I'll give them a fair shake.  I appreciate the guidance.


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