# Secrets of War: Vietnam - Hidden in Plain Sight (1998) video



## jasion (Apr 23, 2011)

Another movie about War in Vietnam.
The Vietnam War was a labyrinth of confusion. America was constantly trying to locate enemies who kept appearing and disappearing at unpredictable moments. No one may ever know for sure how many Vietnamese were killed since estimates vary widely.


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## Ravage (Apr 23, 2011)

I remember watching something like this one, but about SOG and other SOF units in the 'Nam era.
This is a very good find Friend. Thank You :)

EDIT:

here is is






Big question, is there any literature about special operations aviation (more specifically rotary wing aviation) used by SF and SEAL Teams during the Vietnam era?


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## Manolito (Apr 23, 2011)

Interesting Video and I appreciate you posting it. It is only my opinion but Korea was a compromise and started the US on a path of compromise instead of win at all cost. In Viet Nam I chased boats to the Cambodian border and had to stop. My Brothers in the North chased to the DMZ and had to quit. Very similar to the Pakistan border is today. I was only an E-4 at the time so I can't speak of the big picture and the thoughts of commanders. The priority of people in the delta were Family,Village, Providence, Religion. I do not believe I met a local that cared what went on in Saigon or North Viet Nam. I would like to know if this is not the same in A Stan.
We lost the War because we lost the will to fight. We fought the cold war because we lacked the will to fight Russia. We are paying five to six a gallon because we lack the will to fight.
Corn yesterday traded at 104% over last year. Wheat closed at 60% over last year. We bend to corporate good will over National goodwill. The US could tariff all electronic imports and increase the cost of food and grain to the world just like they have done with fossil fuels. I promise we quit consuming for four years and the world will change its attitude about the US.
I will close with proposing the thought of you fighting a war against the American people on American soil. Think about fighting the Alaskan natives in their own environment, the Southern mountain men in their own environment. This is what we are trying to do in VN, Iraq, A Stan etc.
If we learn from history we will prosper unfortunately mans ego supercedes history.

Ravage the Sea Wolf choppers were what were used in my area in the Delta. Most insertions were done with boat and watercraft of different types at Can Tho. Seal Team 1 had a group at Can Tho and also two UDT teams off and on teams 12&13
http://www.seawolf.org/index.asp
Respectfully,
Bill


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## AWP (Apr 23, 2011)

Manolito said:


> We lost the War because we lost the will to fight. We fought the cold war because we lacked the will to fight Russia. We are paying five to six a gallon because we lack the will to fight.
> Corn yesterday traded at 104% over last year. Wheat closed at 60% over last year. We bend to corporate good will over National goodwill. The US could tariff all electronic imports and increase the cost of food and grain to the world just like they have done with fossil fuels. I promise we quit consuming for four years and the world will change its attitude about the US.
> I will close with proposing the thought of you fighting a war against the American people on American soil. Think about fighting the Alaskan natives in their own environment, the Southern mountain men in their own environment. This is what we are trying to do in VN, Iraq, A Stan etc.
> If we learn from history we will prosper unfortunately mans ego supercedes history.
> ...



A friend of mine, recently deceased, was the OIC of a PBR base. Reading your post is like a conversation with him.


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## HOLLiS (Apr 23, 2011)

Some how killing 600,000 Charlies sort of say, they were not that damn hard to find in the first place.

I have posted this before, it is about the myths of that war:

http://www.25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id27.htm


Sat Cong!


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## Manolito (Apr 23, 2011)

Sat Cong = Kill Cong You never cease to amaze me.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 24, 2011)

Manolito said:


> We lost the War because we lost the will to fight. We fought the cold war because we lacked the will to fight Russia.
> Bill



You lacked the will to fight Russia? That's not really surprising considering the biggest war the world has ever seen just ended. Why would you have wanted to fight the Soviet Union militarily anyway? Things worked out well the way they did for the most part. I can't argue the rest of your post but this bit doesn't seem correct to me.


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## Manolito (Apr 25, 2011)

We spent the wealth of the US fighting a cold war while the rest of the countries recovered from a world war. My point was War in my opinion must be waged with anger and resolve. We should not spend the last 15 years rebuilding countries that we fought in. We should go fight win or lose and come home. I am not one of those do good people that thinks group hugs and reperation are the answers. There is a large body of intelectuals that believe we spent the Soviet Union into giving up the cold war. Other believe AStan is what killed the Soviet Union because the people were un willing to sacrafice any more of their young men to a cause that in their mind had no value. Smart people wrote and practice COIN so I am sure I am wrong but it is still how I feel.
Bill


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## pardus (Apr 25, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> You lacked the will to fight Russia? That's not really surprising considering the biggest war the world has ever seen just ended. Why would you have wanted to fight the Soviet Union militarily anyway? Things worked out well the way they did for the most part. I can't argue the rest of your post but this bit doesn't seem correct to me.



Seriously?

We just fought the most destructive war ever waged in the name of freedom, and we leave a regime in place worse and stronger than the one we just destroyed.
The biggest mistake the Allies made in WWII was not aligning themselves with the Germans in '44/'45 and turning against the dirty fucking Russians and finishing them off once and for all.

Just think how different the world would be if we killed communism in 1945.

Friendly China, no north Korea, no Vietnam war, no Soviet invasion of Afghanistan... no Al Qaeda... I could go on all night...


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## AWP (Apr 25, 2011)

pardus said:


> Just think how different the world would be if we killed communism in 1945.



Even resetting the map to pre-war boundaries would be huge. A free Eastern Europe, or at least one that isn't under the Warsaw Pact? That significantly alters the 20th century.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 25, 2011)

pardus said:


> Seriously?
> 
> We just fought the most destructive war ever waged in the name of freedom, and we leave a regime in place worse and stronger than the one we just destroyed.



You just answered your own question. The people were war weary, no way would they have tolerated another war. And why align with the Germans? That's giving legitimacy to their death camps by extension.



Manolito said:


> We spent the wealth of the US fighting a cold war while the rest of the countries recovered from a world war. My point was War in my opinion must be waged with anger and resolve. We should not spend the last 15 years rebuilding countries that we fought in. We should go fight win or lose and come home. I am not one of those do good people that thinks group hugs and reperation are the answers. There is a large body of intelectuals that believe we spent the Soviet Union into giving up the cold war. Other believe AStan is what killed the Soviet Union because the people were un willing to sacrafice any more of their young men to a cause that in their mind had no value. Smart people wrote and practice COIN so I am sure I am wrong but it is still how I feel.
> Bill



You guys weren't the only ones fighting that Cold War- the rest of the world was, as well. Not always militarily but still. And the Soviets _were_ spent into "losing." That's why they basically went bankrupt by the end of the 1980s. Like it or not but after world war two the world moved away from total war. We should remember that any war against the Soviets would have ended in a nuclear exchange and I'm reasonably sure you wouldn't advocate that.


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## Manolito (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't know how I feel about Nukes. My Father thought they were great when they ended WWII. I don't want to see another young person sent to fight where the objective is to fight for some compromise. We should do one of two things negotiate and keep our military home or send our military and then discuss terms of surrender not compromise. I know I don't hold the intellectual high ground in this argument but as all of us I am the sum of all my experiences and the road I see today is not the one I view as the proper course. Interesting debate though Thanks
Bill


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## Nasty (Apr 25, 2011)

pardus said:


> Seriously?
> 
> We just fought the most destructive war ever waged in the name of freedom, and we leave a regime in place worse and stronger than the one we just destroyed.
> The biggest mistake the Allies made in WWII was not aligning themselves with the Germans in '44/'45 and turning against the dirty fucking Russians and finishing them off once and for all.
> ...


 
Really, you would pick one evil over the other? Can you look back in time and say that if we backed the Germans that things would be better? What say we just folded to Hitler and fired up the ovens? I'm not saying that the Russians were better but WTF. I enlisted in 1978 so I am a cold warrior and hate the USSR, but really man, really, support the Nazis?


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## pardus (Apr 26, 2011)

OK, both of you go back and read my post again.

I said Germans NOT Nazis. Huge difference.

In '44/'45 there was a viable alternative govt in waiting Germany that the Allies foolishly ignored.



SpitfireV said:


> You just answered your own question. The people were war weary, no way would they have tolerated another war. And why align with the Germans? That's giving legitimacy to their death camps by extension.



Yes the Allied nations were war weary, so were the Russians.

Why the Germans? They were masters of fighting the Russians and fighting in Russia. Why do you think so many Germans were hired by the west after the war to teach/train the west to fight the Russians? No one had the experience the Germans did. Germany was defeated by logistics, they just didn't have enough stuff to fight with.



SpitfireV said:


> You guys weren't the only ones fighting that Cold War- the rest of the world was, as well. Not always militarily but still. And the Soviets _were_ spent into "losing." That's why they basically went bankrupt by the end of the 1980s. Like it or not but after world war two the world moved away from total war. We should remember that any war against the Soviets would have ended in a nuclear exchange and I'm reasonably sure you wouldn't advocate that.



The cold war was basically the USA and Britain against Russia via proxy states. There were some exceptions but they were in a smaller scale.

Spit, when did the Russkies get nukes?  ;)


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## AWP (Apr 26, 2011)

pardus said:


> I said Germans NOT Nazis. Huge difference.
> 
> In '44/'45 there was a viable alternative govt in waiting Germany that the Allies foolishly ignored.



I agree with you, but this argument also ignores the fact that most Americans didn't see the Soviets as a threat. Hindsight is 20 something....

Siding with the Germans to overthrow Hitler? Possible. Convincing Americans to go to war against Russia? Damn near impossible for several years.

Now, dumping Hitler and going with the Germans would forestall Soviet encroachment in Europe. The only real way to get Americans on the "Invade Russia" platform would be the inevitable backlash from Stalin once he realized Churchill and FDR doublecrossed him. Stalin would have gone nuts and that would provide the political opening needed.

Another problem with a US/ UK/ GER alliance is Japan. In 44 and early 45 we had a lot of islands left to conquer. By then the Soviets were also rapidly moving across Europe so you want to go to war with them sooner rather than later. Europeans hate Russia and we'd have been better off keeping the Soviets as close to their homeland as possible. By doing this we avoid the utter destruction of German industry (which poses another problem: slave labor made it productive, not German engineering) and logistics...which was all basically destroyed in the run up to D-Day.

Siding with the Germans isn't as cut and dried as we would like. It would bring a ton of issues to overcome.


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## pardus (Apr 26, 2011)

Yup, Agreed. A very complicated issue indeed.
An interesting intellectual discussion.


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