# Cheap Training?



## Cody (Nov 27, 2013)

I was having this discussion with a few other Marines not to long ago, that a trend in training seems to be training in the  field is only coming in at a company level. Platoons are not being aloud to train independently  because of "lack  of funding"

Although PB ops cost nothing but chow, water and a few radios its apparently a hassle. We are operating instead on team and squad levels only able to do hip pocket classes and we have even done CQB with air rifles, we'd love to patrol but, we are not able to secure a place to operate in.

 Is anyone else having a similar issue and if so have you come up with any solutions?


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## pardus (Nov 28, 2013)

Cody said:


> I was having this discussion with a few other Marines not to too long ago, that a trend in training seems to be training in the  field is only coming in at a company level. Platoons are not being aloud allowed to train independently  because of "lack  of funding"
> 
> Although PB ops cost nothing but chow, water and a few radios its apparently a hassle. We are operating instead on team and squad levels only able to do hip pocket classes and we have even done CQB with air rifles, we'd love to patrol but, we are not able to secure a place to operate in.
> 
> Is anyone else having a similar issue and if so have you come up with any solutions?



Goddamn your English is shite. I didn't even touch your grammar. However...

You're only allowed to operate at company level, so you are operating at team and squad level? 
What have you done to fix this problem?
You can't patrol around your barracks, base, training area?

*Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.*


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## Cody (Nov 28, 2013)

I blame the auto correct for some of that but, the grammar was all me:wall:Operating in the field is only being done on a company is what I'm talking about, as in making away to a training area with daypack/rifle/kit and actually running  training missions. As a platoon we have been unsuccessful in being able to lock on training areas for just us, it usually swatted down by the company. Trying to do a platoon range for example with live or even blank rounds unless your weapons plt has not happened.

We have brought it up through the company but, it's either a lack of funding issue, paperwork being lost or annual training/company op that takes priorty. As squad leaders and team leaders we put together weapons/ I.E.D/warrior culture classes and CQB tape houses. However there is so much more in the spectrum of warfare to cover and that should be covered, especially by a infantry unit.

The only hassle with using our barracks area is that marines don't take it seriously. Not so much the newer guys but, the guys who have been on deployment a few times and their attitude is contagious, eventually rubbing off on the younger generation but, that's a whole other subject.


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## 0699 (Nov 28, 2013)

What are your platoon leader and platoon sergeant's stances on this issue?  If they agree with you, and they can't get this training to happen, you're probably hosed.  Accept that training dollars will be hard to get for the foreseeable future, except for high-profile events and pre-deployment training.  But you don't need money to have good training.

IME, there's either something that you aren't telling us or something you don't know.  Training areas at Camp Lejeune aren't hard to get.


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## Polar Bear (Nov 28, 2013)

You have an idiot for a PL, or does not care. I went through the last draw down. During that time I had some of the best training ever. PSgt shows up at the door at 0 dark thirty, "get dressed, LBE, patrol caps, weapons" we spent the next 3 days living off the land. PSgt shows up at my door another time SPC we need your truck. Loaded it up with rappelling gear and spent the week rappelling....a week learning tracking, water survival...etc. think outside the box


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## Mac_NZ (Nov 28, 2013)

What are your METLs directed by Battalion?  Go through your METLs and find the ones that are specific to your ability to operate as a Pl independent of or in satellite of Coy or demonstrate how your training will meet those METLs.  Write up an intent for training packet and make sure you CC the BN XO and S3 into it.

Your PL is likely a bit of a limp noodle and isn't fighting your OC for training time.  Your PL Sgts should be hammering your Company SNCO (1Sgt?) to get him to put the pressure on the OC.

If you ever need funding to come through for something you need to find a way to make it accomplish something that someone with bird shit on his shoulders needs completed lest it adversely effect his EOTR.

Personally I would be concentrating on individual and squad/section level training.  Well trained squads/sections can get through a cluster fuck a lot better than guys who only concentrate on Platoon level tactics.


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## Cody (Nov 28, 2013)

I like the idea of just showing up in the night and rolling into PB ops or some night patrolling where we have  a lot less likely hood to get caught. I'm going to have to brush myself up on some survival stuff for different climates to feel confident in teaching them. Great ideas, they are giving me ideas. Now I hope that guys are willing to walk the walk with me because they are all going to have to learn something new and get good at it.

 @0699 we have a piece of shit PLTSGT but, I'm not going to air our plt politics here but, yes that is a sizable contributor to the lack of training. Speaking of repelling, has anyone had the chance to repel with the RoK Rangers?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 29, 2013)

Battle-drills are never practiced enough, don't require money, or special areas, and can be done at the squad level.

I once taught a full day class on hand and arm signals.

Patrolling is probably one of the easiest things to practice, with or without the rest of a platoon.

Dryfire marksmanship training.

Range estimation and wind calls.

Common medical tasks, first aid, dpx/chest dart, casualty evac, calling in mock medevac, etc.

You can take common task, change it up with adding land-nav and O-course and having tasks to perform along the way (I.e. run an O-course and put a radio into operation, make a SALUTE report based on a photograph of an a/o or opfor)

A ton of really good training in the basics, just mix the shit up with some imaginative thinking.


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## goon175 (Nov 29, 2013)

Mag changes until your fingers bleed.

Go do PLT raids on empty buildings on post. Set up a TST mission and have your PLT plan the mission in no less than an hour, with an SP time of 90 mins after receiving the mission. 

Your creativity is the limit.


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## Cody (Nov 29, 2013)

TST?


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## Isiah6:8 (Nov 29, 2013)

I believe in the context it is Time Sensitive Target.


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## CDG (Nov 29, 2013)

Plotting/pulling grids off of various maps (1:50, JOG, etc.).  You can do this straight up, or by using intersection/resection.

Route planning for both foot and vehicle movements.

Basic radio programming/troubleshooting. 

ECAS/CCA/CFF. Have one guy playing a pilot and another guy being the observer.  Give them each a radio, put them in separate rooms with the same maps/imagery, and away you go.


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## reed11b (Nov 29, 2013)

Radios. Very perishable skill and a very important one.
Land Nav. Both Compass and GPS.
Grenades. Use the simulater bodies and go to town. This is kind of a fun one.
I know dime and washer drills are useful, but it's real hard to get a group of young guys to stick too it for a long period of time. I say do it for a little bit, often, intead of making half a training day of it.
Op Orders. Start training junior leaders now.
Reed


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2013)

reed11b said:


> Grenades. Use the simulater bodies and go to town. This is kind of a fun one.



I hate US Army grenade training, just ridiculous IMO.


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## reed11b (Nov 29, 2013)

pardus said:


> I hate US Army grenade training, just ridiculous IMO.


 What should grenade training look like?
Reed


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2013)

reed11b said:


> What should grenade training look like?
> Reed



I wouldn't say "should", but the whole point your arm, throw over the wire then duck down as you finish the swing is just stupid and unrealistic IMO.
I much prefer the NZ method, throw (in a different manner), watch where it lands then duck.


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## goon175 (Nov 29, 2013)

pardus said:


> I wouldn't say "should", but the whole point your arm, throw over the wire then duck down as you finish the swing is just stupid and unrealistic IMO.
> I much prefer the NZ method, throw (in a different manner), watch where it lands then duck.



Well that would not be very safe! jeez… what are you thinking!?


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2013)

LOL


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## Cody (Nov 29, 2013)

goon175 said:


> Well that would not be very safe! jeez… what are you thinking!?



Speaking of safe grenade training, while we were in Korea, we had to use their training facilities so used their grenade range. Well, it was literally man made pond....in the middle of a farm, with live action cows directly infront of the pond....aaaand a public walking trail on the imediate right with nothing but a single row of trees blocking the trail and pond. 

While we didn't harm any people, a strapping young lad over shot the pond and ended up taking out a wandering bovine


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## Salt USMC (Nov 29, 2013)

Reminds me of the random animals that wander the ranges on Pendleton.  The first, and last, time I saw a buffalo was when it wandered onto a Mk-19 range and was nearly turned into buffalo burgers!  Suffice it to say, we were pissed that a retarded, half-blind buffalo shut down our exploding-stuff range.


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## Mac_NZ (Nov 29, 2013)

Cody you should have a battle simulation centre on camp somewhere that runs a programme called VBS-2 or maybe 3 if thats rolled out now.  Find someone that knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to calling in fires or preferably a pilot and use it to conduct ECAS training.  You can also go all the way from 81mm up to 155mm and see the effect on target.

Don't laugh but as a young Ptl Comd with no budget I made guys cam up, go out on the ground and site an OP and then moved into a nice heated air conditioned building for 28 hours to go through observing and reporting.  All it took was a bit of liasion and I sent them off to the mess for meals (that they paid for on their swipe cards) and had them bring one back in a TV dinner tray for whoever was on the OP.  I had a guy from one of the other patrols who was in a full leg cast come in as our opfor and make a virtual character walk around the village every hour or so.  Most of it was scripted by the geeks and didn't need a human to run it.

Like others have said, your imagination is your only limit.


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