# MKD Knives Combat Bowie WIP



## Gary Melton (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok.. I mentioned this project once in a post and I have continued to get emails asking about it since. I promised as soon as I started it everyone here would be the first to know. This is the Melton Knife and Design, Combat Bowie. This is the first and largest of 3 sizes I have designed. I have been wanting to do this project for some time now but it took me a while to get the design right. I wanted to blend some modern design with the Classic Bowie. It had to have modern lines but still be immediately identifiable as a Bowie. This knife is made from slightly over 3/16” (.21) CPM S35VN stock. 
OAL 13”, Blade Length 6.5” from tip to choil, Blade Width 2” 
Here we have the blank, we are going to clean up the edges and profile and then surface grind it.  
Here we have blued the edge so we can scribe two lines approximately 1/16” or 50/1000’s apart. I will grind the edge down to just the outside edge. Any thinner and we will have issues during H/T (heat treat).
 
 Here I have started grinding the blade bevels. Still have a lot more grinding to do to bring the bevels to where I want them but this gives you an idea of what it will look like.
 
  This is one hell of a pig sticker! This is one of those knives that will perform any role you need it to except fit in your momma’s purse!
Lot more work to do so I will post pics as we go along.
Any questions or comments feel free to post. Check out some of my other stuff at www.meltonknifeanddesign.com ! All Shadow Spear members get 15% off.
Enjoy!


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## Mac_NZ (Jul 7, 2011)

Sweet baby Jesus, that is a big nasty piece of steel.  I do believe I could almost cut a man in half with that.

Have you ever done a Khukri or a Parang Gary?


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## Viper1 (Jul 7, 2011)

Badass!


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## QC (Jul 7, 2011)

Shweeet!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah I agree that looks like it’s going to be a really badass knife!

I have a question about the way you grinded the blade bevels on the spine, it looks like it might interfere with trying to use the spine as a striking surface (i.e. using something to strike the top of the spine when splitting small strips of wood, ect)? Is the spine going to have an edge all the way back to the grind bevel line, or is that just a cosmetic look?

I like the look, I am just wondering about the application in field use (as for my personal use). If I wanted to order one with the grind bevel lines stopping at the swaged clip point or maybe  just an inch past it, would that be possible?


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## Gary Melton (Jul 7, 2011)

JAB said:


> Yeah I agree that looks like it’s going to be a really badass knife!
> 
> I have a question about the way you grinded the blade bevels on the spine, it looks like it might interfere with trying to use the spine as a striking surface (i.e. using something to strike the top of the spine when splitting small strips of wood, ect)? Is the spine going to have an edge all the way back to the grind bevel line, or is that just a cosmetic look?
> 
> I like the look, I am just wondering about the application in field use (as for my personal use). If I wanted to order one with the grind bevel lines stopping at the swaged clip point or maybe just an inch past it, would that be possible?



Jab, I dont plan to sharpen that top bevel. It's essentially a false edge. Allows for deeper penetration for stabs or thrusts. The false edge is going to stop where you see it and there is enough spine to still hammer on. As for can you order one without a top bevel? HELL YEAH brother!! I enjoy customizing items to the user and it's something people dont take advantage of enough. I think most people think they are going to "mess up" a knife by altering it or the like. If it's a bad idea I let the customer know and tell him why it is such and then we go from there. So yes.. we can do whatever you want within reason and even if it's real bad I will make it for you .. just wont put my name on it but what you have in mind is perfectly reasonable and makes sense. Thanks for checking it out!!


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## Gary Melton (Jul 7, 2011)

Mac_NZ said:


> Sweet baby Jesus, that is a big nasty piece of steel. I do believe I could almost cut a man in half with that.
> 
> Have you ever done a Khukri or a Parang Gary?



Honestly.. I have not done either. They are pretty straight forward though.


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## pardus (Jul 7, 2011)

That is one beast of a knife!

Have you ever made a Smatchet?

Based on your above comments I'm guessing that is fairly straight forward too?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Jab, I dont plan to sharpen that top bevel. It's essentially a false edge. Allows for deeper penetration for stabs or thrusts. The false edge is going to stop where you see it and there is enough spine to still hammer on. As for can you order one without a top bevel? HELL YEAH brother!! I enjoy customizing items to the user and it's something people dont take advantage of enough. I think most people think they are going to "mess up" a knife by altering it or the like. If it's a bad idea I let the customer know and tell him why it is such and then we go from there. So yes.. we can do whatever you want within reason and even if it's real bad I will make it for you .. just wont put my name on it but what you have in mind is perfectly reasonable and makes sense. Thanks for checking it out!!


 
Fucking right on, sending your business POC an email here in a few…


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## LibraryLady (Jul 7, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> ...  This is one hell of a pig sticker! This is one of those knives that will perform any role you need it to *except fit in your momma’s purse*!...



Hmmm...  That's sounds like a challenge...

:-"

LL


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## Gary Melton (Jul 7, 2011)

pardus said:


> That is one beast of a knife!
> 
> Have you ever made a Smatchet?
> 
> Based on your above comments I'm guessing that is fairly straight forward too?



Yeah.. pretty straight forward but I like where youre going. I think I am going to take you up on your challenge. I was just looking at some pics of some Smatchets and I think we can mondernize it a bit and sexy it up. I am putting it on the TO DO list Pardus. I'll let you know when start working on it.


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## pardus (Jul 7, 2011)

Sounds good mate!

Thanks, I'd appreciate it.



Gary Melton said:


> Yeah.. pretty straight forward but I like where youre going. I think I am going to take you up on your challenge. I was just looking at some pics of some Smatchets and I think we can mondernize it a bit and sexy it up. I am putting it on the TO DO list Pardus. I'll let you know when start working on it.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 7, 2011)

LibraryLady said:


> Hmmm... That's sounds like a challenge...
> 
> :-"
> 
> LL


Well considering your purse.... there is NOTHING this knife cant do!! ;)


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

Very cool Gary... thanks for post it... a question.. what about corrosion test?... Can I use it (not for diving of course) in contact with sea water?
Mike


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## x SF med (Jul 8, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Very cool Gary... thanks for post it... a question.. what about corrosion test?... Can I use it (not for diving of course) in contact with sea water?
> Mike



Oh, I got this Question for ya Gary... CPM S35VN... corrosion resistance is pretty damn good... it'll swim, as long as you get it a BC of it's own...

I will be checking out the recently upgraded shop toys this weekend...  I'll report back about the cool toys around the shop... and make sure I have my camera with me...  and my sharpening gear to help out Mr M. in getting his edges nice and "cutty"


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## Gary Melton (Jul 8, 2011)

Yep Troll is exactly right. CPM S35VN is much more corrosive resistant than 440C. Here's a link for all the tech data that further explains this along with wear resistance, and toughness. http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf We knife nerds love this stuff.


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## pardus (Jul 8, 2011)

This...



Gary Melton said:


> Yep Troll is exactly right..



Kinda negates everything you write after it. I'd watch that, oh and the Troll, watch him more, through a gun sight is safest.


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

x SF med said:


> Oh, I got this Question for ya Gary... CPM S35VN... corrosion resistance is pretty damn good... it'll swim, as long as you get it a BC of it's own...
> 
> I will be checking out the recently upgraded shop toys this weekend... I'll report back about the cool toys around the shop... and make sure I have my camera with me... and my sharpening gear to help out Mr M. in getting his edges nice and "cutty"


Thanks Troll... you rule


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## pardus (Jul 8, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Thanks Troll... you rule



NO!

Bad Mike!


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## Servimus (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Yep Troll is exactly right. CPM S35VN is much more corrosive resistant than 440C. Here's a link for all the tech data that further explains this along with wear resistance, and toughness. http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf We knife nerds love this stuff.


Thanks for the link. I enjoy geeking out to steel specs.


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

pardus said:


> NO!
> 
> Bad Mike!


Bwahahaha... I expected this Pardus!!... (but yes I am)


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Yep Troll is exactly right. CPM S35VN is much more corrosive resistant than 440C. Here's a link for all the tech data that further explains this along with wear resistance, and toughness. http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf We knife nerds love this stuff.


My Knife is N690Co with DLC surface treatment, I had many knives, all with rust probs except this.. but if CPM S35VN is better, well, I'd buy one...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 8, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> My Knife is N690Co with DLC surface treatment, I had many knives, all with rust probs except this.. but if CPM S35VN is better, well, I'd buy one...


Honestly Mike, if it's corrosion resistance youre looking for you need to check out Bohler Vanax. Or even Bohler ELMAX. Both of these steels are more corrosion resistant than N690Co (which is also made by Bohler) and S35VN. I am really likeing ELMAX and I will be using this steel alot. I believe it has a slight advantage over S35VN in edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. But do your own research and never take a knife maker's word for it. I love S35VN and it is truly a super steel but Bohler is really coming out with some good stuff to compete with all the CPM steels.


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Honestly Mike, if it's corrosion resistance youre looking for you need to check out Bohler Vanax. Or even Bohler ELMAX. Both of these steels are more corrosion resistant than N690Co (which is also made by Bohler) and S35VN. I am really likeing ELMAX and I will be using this steel alot. I believe it has a slight advantage over S35VN in edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. But do your own research and never take a knife maker's word for it. I love S35VN and it is truly a super steel but Bohler is really coming out with some good stuff to compete with all the CPM steels.


What can I do to buy one of your knives Gary?


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## Gary Melton (Jul 8, 2011)

Well right now I am accepting new borns and midgets...

Actually contact me through meltonknifeanddesign@yahoo.com and we can put somethign together for you.


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## LibraryLady (Jul 8, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> What can I do to buy one of your knives Gary?



With shipping to Europe, might just be easier to fly over here and pick it up yourself. ;)



Gary Melton said:


> Well right now I am accepting new borns and midgets...



What?  You ain't got enough kids and midgets around you as it is, now?  And I'm not even talking about the Troll!  

LL


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## mike_cos (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Well right now I am accepting new borns and midgets...
> 
> Actually contact me through meltonknifeanddesign@yahoo.com and we can put somethign together for you.



How do you know that I am a midget?... I never posted here pics of my cock...

Ok Gary I'll send you e-mail


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## x SF med (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Well right now I am accepting new borns and midgets...
> 
> Actually contact me through meltonknifeanddesign@yahoo.com and we can put somethign together for you.



Then why did you make me bring over that pygmy girraffe dyed pink and a cooler of redbull....:-|  I do believe you are losing it bro...  just keep making great knives...  we can deal with your psych issues later.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 8, 2011)

Today I was able to get a little work done. Here I drill the holes for the handle then relieve them with the countersink. This is done because during heat treat the sharp 90 that is created can cause stress and cracking. Any 90 that is not a outer edge needs to be rounded to reduce stress.
 
Here I have roughed out and drilled the handles. The handles on the Combat Bowie are Black Canvas Micarta. The handles on the Bravo Smash are Terra Tuff. Jeesh.. the Bravo Smash is no small knife but it looks like your grandpa's pocket knife sitting next to the Combat Bowie..... Ahhhh.. I think I have a tear of pride rolling down my cheek.


I then take it to the horizontal grinder and dress everything up nice and neat and make it perty..More to come!!


Ok.. because of so many orders on the Bravo Smash I have taken it off Sale on the website but will continue the 289.00 price for all Shadow Spear members! Thanks!


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## pardus (Jul 8, 2011)

This is great...



Gary Melton said:


> But do your own research and never take a knife maker's word for it.



And leads to this...



mike_cos said:


> What can I do to buy one of your knives Gary?



My .02c


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## Gary Melton (Jul 8, 2011)

Yeah I was actually lying when I said that too!! I cant help it... the truth is just not in me.. or am I lying now!!? Hard to tell.


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## pardus (Jul 8, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Yeah I was actually lying when I said that too!! I cant help it... the truth is just not in me.. or am I lying now!!? Hard to tell.



Well you are an SF mofo_ and_ a friend of the Troll, so it's taken as a given on this board that you are a dodgy fucker.
Mike is Italian so his comprehension of the English language may have fooled him into believing you weren't a bastige.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 9, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> How do you know that I am a midget?... I never posted here pics of my cock...
> 
> Ok Gary I'll send you e-mail


Troll... how did he get pics of your modeling days with Troll Quarterly?


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## x SF med (Jul 9, 2011)

Operation Troll Rescue goes into effect tomorrow... hopefully Gary did not put the poor boy on the rack like he told me... I may get the Troll back in quarters

The photo above is not me... the beard is too thick and the hair too long...  The axes are nice though...  Gary, make me an axe or a tomahawk, please.


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## mike_cos (Jul 9, 2011)

pardus said:


> Mike is Italian so his comprehension of the English language may have fooled him into believing you weren't a bastige.


...bastige... bastige.,.. oh god... american slang....LOL


pardus said:


> My .02c


My .02c are coordinates for naval battle? (failed... anyway)


x SF med said:


> The photo above is not me... the beard is too thick and the hair too long... The axes are nice though... Gary, make me an axe or a tomahawk, please.


Gary, thank godness I have not posted the elf pic... or the Troll asked you to make him a bow...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 9, 2011)

So I was able to get a little work done today. Got the handles shaped up to about 95%, still have a little finish work to do. Need to take care of a few scratches here and there on the blade then we go ahead and make the sheath. After that we'll be ready for heat treat and then cryo. This is the first time I have used spacer material and I thought it would look good on this knife. I try to stay away from things that are purely asthetic but.. hell it looks good and this is a classy knife that will kill the shit out of some stuff... I would be getting more done today but the Troll is on his way over so I have been child proofing the shop.. I mean cooking meat and stuff..;).

Enjoy!


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## x SF med (Jul 10, 2011)

Ignore Opie's comments about child proofing...

DO NOT IGNORE THIS KNIFE, actually, you can't ignore ths knife, it has it's own friggin zip code.
...but it is well balanced  (unlike it's designer/maker) ...  and very comfortable in the hand.  The base stock of the blade and tang is about a 1/4" thick and 2" deep  of CPM S-35VN ...  it dwarfs the Bravo-Smash  and makes the Yarborough look like an Applegate-Fairbairn (No shit, the blade on the Combat Bowie is that deep) .  You could hammer on the spine of this thing with a small sledgehammer and probably ruin the sledgehammer before you deformed the blade.  You can chop down very large trees (or Ranger Psych on a rampage) with this blade ...think of being hit with a  steel bar 1 foot long, 1/4" thick and 2" wide... :eek:... then shape it for balance and sharpen it:-|...  
Crocodile Dundee --    would pass out if he imagined this knife, he would cry, pout and wimper, all the while saying, "I thought I had the knife, but I don't."

I comes in smaller sizes:  for Crocodile Dundee, other Aussies, kiwis, the French, Italians, Rangers  and a really small one for  Pardus, Mad Mike PB and Chop.

Order now for your Christmas giving, even if it's for yourself.


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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)

Mad Mike... haha sounds good... so, to confirm that I'll order one...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Mad Mike... haha sounds good... so, to confirm that I'll order one...



Too late D.I.C.K. I already ordered mine! Thats right bitches.....Me gots the first (well at least the first one sold):-|.

TEXAS, everything is bigger in TEXAS, or we import it into TEXAS!
I really can't wait to go stab a car, chop down a tree, kill a family of five with my new MKD combat bowie.... Just saying!;)


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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)




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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)

JAB said:


> Too late D.I.C.K.,


D.I.C.K. stand for Dude International Combat Knife?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> D.I.C.K. stand for Dude International Combat Knife?



Sure, or Dedicated Infantry Combat Killer (DICK)


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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)

JAB said:


> Sure, or Dedicated Infantry Combat Killer (DICK)


oh god... Texan people... (lone star)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2011)

mother-fucking porn star bitches....but yeah, I am going to bed before my wife beats me.:-/


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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)

Bwahahaha... daddy's time is over.... LOL.. here 10.25 am


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 10, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Bwahahaha... daddy's time is over.... LOL.. here 10.25 am








0334am here...


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## x SF med (Jul 10, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Mad Mike... haha sounds good... so, to confirm that I'll order one...



You are NOT Mad Mike... Mad Mike is another member who is a dwarf Ranger with a bad attitude and fewer social skills that even an Italian Paratrooper....

Gary doesn't make a combat bowie that goes well with a Fruitti del Mare like you...


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## x SF med (Jul 10, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Yeah I was actually lying when I said that too!! I cant help it... the truth is just not in me.. or am I lying now!!? Hard to tell.



Even at home, nobody believes him...  so just ignore about 95% of what he says and you'll be fine....
The Troll prisoner grab mission was successful....  there was a diversionary side mission that distracted the knife guy and guards with homemade Banana-walnut-chocolate chip-cinnamon ice cream.  the Troll has been sent to an undisclosed location for debriefing by intelligence operatives of multiple departments ...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 10, 2011)

JAB said:


> Too late D.I.C.K. I already ordered mine! Thats right bitches.....Me gots the first (well at least the first one sold):-|.
> 
> TEXAS, everything is bigger in TEXAS, or we import it into TEXAS!
> I really can't wait to go stab a car, chop down a tree, kill a family of five with my new MKD combat bowie.... Just saying!;)



Made BY a Texan (from Beaumont, who else would make a knife this big?) FOR a Texan !
Yeah Troll and his MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH, exponentially better half stopped by and we had a good time. He got to handle both the Bowie and a Bravo Smash WIP. Had to mace, tase, then hit with a baseball bat to pry them from his sausages. He's right though the Bowie is really one hell of a knife.


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## mike_cos (Jul 10, 2011)

x SF med said:


> You are NOT Mad Mike... Mad Mike is another member who is a dwarf Ranger with a bad attitude and fewer social skills that even an Italian Paratrooper....
> 
> Gary doesn't make a combat bowie that goes well with a Fruitti del Mare like you...


wow I have received a compliment from the Troll... so I have social skills... thanks!
That knife I used to collect mussels from the rocks... not to cut flowers in the mountains like you...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 11, 2011)

Ok... this is a project I have been working on for a while. I designed this knife for my old chaplain. He's a personal friend and a fellow knife enthusiast. The only direction he gave me was that he liked big knives.. well, I think what we have falls in that category (I mean it's not quite the beast the Combat Bowie is but..). I hadn’t planned on showing this and wasn’t sure if I was going to offer this knife to anyone else but after an email I sent to him and some careful thought I figured I would at least show you guys and I told him about this forum and this particular thread so if he checks it out he'll have a little sneak peek of his knife. Since it's going to a chaplain I figured I would name this knife "Vengeance" in reference to Romans 12:19. I decided I will offer this knife and with almost all my knives, I like offering the same style in different sizes so this is the first and probably largest of two or three.. 
Here's the specs. 
Almost 1/4" S35VN (.22")
Double hollow ground ***
Flat ground false top edge (thinnest area at the top is still about 1/8"- 5/32")
OAL: 12.5"
Blade Length: 7.25"
 

This is all that will be shown until after it's deliverd. Once he get's it I will post pics of the finished product. 
Enjoy you knife junkies!!

***-- something I have never brought up... Just so you all know, I grind all my knives with a 10" contact wheel not the standard 8". A hollow ground knife is easier to sharpen because of the edge is thinner for longer. The advantage of the flat grind is there is more material behind the edge for strength, especially compared to a blade ground with an 8" wheel. With my 10" wheel I think you get the better of the two. You get a the thin area but because of such a large circumference you get a lot more material behind the edge for strength... so it's almost a flat grind that is slightly concave. I probably didn’t explain that very well so if you need clarification let me know and we'll discuss it further.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok.. I want all of your opinions on this (I am sure this is a can of worms being opened;).. The point behind this design is having the maximum amount of blade edge in the smallest package possible for maximizing concealment/stow-ability. So with this, you get 3" of blade in a 4.25" package. It's amazingly comfortable and secure in the hand, even more so than I thought when I designed it and great dexterity. I have no issues slashing, punching, or doing fine detail cutting.. it really is more functional than I ever thought it would be. I expected to trade alot more functionality in for the small size. This knife will come with a sheath that can be worn as a neck knife or IWB.
This is the NHK... No Handle Knife! what else?! Tell me what you guys think. You guys are a perfect sounding board.. you all actually USE your knives!
Suggestions.. comments.. critiques..
   

Enjoy!
Thanks,
Gary


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jul 12, 2011)

That looks like the knife Tom Berenger slashed Charlie Sheen with in Platoon. 

Shoot, I'd wear that around my neck.  How much are you looking at selling it for?  I might have to add that to the Bravo Smash...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 12, 2011)

I was thinking 119.00... Even the small neck knives in S35VN are going for much more than that. What do you think?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jul 12, 2011)

Not knowing what they traditionally go for, I thought that sounded like a very reasonable price.  After doing some research, that seems like a pretty good deal!


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## Gary Melton (Jul 12, 2011)

I try hard to keep the prices low and reasonable. The only thing more expensive than knife collecting is knife making! Every knife is hand made, one at a time and extreme attention to detail is used. For a knife the size of the Combat Bowie I may have 20+ hours into it. Every knife literally has my name on it and being the proud, barrel chested freedom fighter that I am, it has to be perfect and you can bet your life on it. That my Guarantee!  Allright.. wife is yelling at me to get to bed!!


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## boomgoesthedynamite (Jul 12, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Ok.. I want all of your opinions on this (I am sure this is a can of worms being opened;).. The point behind this design is having the maximum amount of blade edge in the smallest package possible for maximizing concealment/stow-ability. So with this, you get 3" of blade in a 4.25" package. It's amazingly comfortable and secure in the hand, even more so than I thought when I designed it and great dexterity. I have no issues slashing, punching, or doing fine detail cutting.. it really is more functional than I ever thought it would be. I expected to trade alot more functionality in for the small size. This knife will come with a sheath that can be worn as a neck knife or IWB.
> This is the NHK... No Handle Knife! what else?! Tell me what you guys think. You guys are a perfect sounding board.. you all actually USE your knives!
> Suggestions.. comments.. critiques..
> View attachment 4508 View attachment 4507 View attachment 4506 View attachment 4505
> ...


That my friend is a serious butt knife.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 12, 2011)

boomgoesthedynamite said:


> That my friend is a serious butt knife.


You're welcome to stow it where ever you choose, but figured most where it on neck or belt.


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

x SF med said:


> .





Gary Melton said:


> .


Troll and Gary, I'd like to hear your opinion about M9 bayonet... I have found it when I moved house last month...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 13, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Troll and Gary, I'd like to hear your opinion about M9 bayonet... I have found it when I moved house last month...


Mike,
  Well, as a former Infantry guy I have had lots of experience with this lil guy. Since becoming SF I havent seen one, I dont think we have any in our inventory to be honest. The reason being two-fold. It never get's used and most are honestly pieces of garbage.
Now.. I am not sure who makes the particular one you have, and that makes all the difference. The one in US Military stocks have been made by at least 4 manufacturers (the best and least of those were made by BUCK and Ontario) and keep in mind each one was the lowest bidder at the time. Here's a link to the history of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_bayonet
Now I have seen some modern versions by Ontario and the like, that I am sure are very well made and solid. I know on several GI versions, I have tried to use the wire cutting feature and there was about 10 times more damage done to the knife than the wire. I also believe most GI versions were made of either 420 or 425 stainless.... 420HC  can ... CAN make decent blades IF IF IF heat treated properly. The question here is do you think ANY company that is shooting for the LOWEST bid to MASS PRODUCE a knife is going to be meticulous while heat treating? Probably not. I am sure if you compare a Ontario M9 made for the troops and one of thiers off a shelf in a store and compared them, they would be drastically different knives.. another lesson in capitalism (for God sakes man.. stay on subject!!)  The M9 is also probably the most counterfeited knife in the world and hell some of those may be better than the GI version and I am pretty sure they are made from melted down Coke cans.. ;)
So to summarize.. essentially the design is what we are talking about.. I think it is an outstanding and innovative design that served a purpose for the average infantryman. I think because of poor quality materials and workmanship it has gotten a well deserved bad reputation, I also believe bayonets today on the modern battalfield are probably out dated and truth be told, no one carries them anymore. So if you did get into some crazy situation and you needed one, no one would have one to use anyways.
Didnt realize I had so much opinion  on this subject.. lol


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## mike_cos (Jul 13, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> It never get's used and most are honestly pieces of garbage.


bwahahaha... ok Gary...


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## x SF med (Jul 13, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Mike,
> .. It never get's used and most are honestly pieces of garbage. ... I am not sure who makes the particular one you have, and that makes all the difference. ..keep in mind each one was the lowest bidder at the time. ...do you think ANY company that is shooting for the LOWEST bid to MASS PRODUCE a knife is going to be meticulous while heat treating? ... The M9 is also probably the most counterfeited knife in the world and hell some of those may be better than the GI version and I am pretty sure they are made from melted down Coke cans.. ;)
> So to summarize... it is an outstanding and innovative design that served a purpose for the average infantryman. I think because of poor quality materials and workmanship it has gotten a well deserved bad reputation, ...



Yeah, what he said.  PLUS, those spine thingies get stuck in bodies when you stab them bad guys too...


----------



## LibraryLady (Jul 13, 2011)

x SF med said:


> Yeah, what he said. PLUS, those spine thingies get stuck in bodies when you stab them bad guys too...



K.  Gonna haveta give ya not just cross thread points, but cross board points... 

LL


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey.. I know where you can get a similiar design for $750 bucks!! It too is a counterfeited knife!!! HA ;)


----------



## x SF med (Jul 14, 2011)

But it will take out a sentry on its own.


----------



## pardus (Jul 14, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Tell me what you guys think. You guys are a perfect sounding board.. you all actually USE your knives!
> Suggestions.. comments.. critiques..



How stable is it while in action?

There isn't a whole lot of contact with the hand unlike a T handle punch dagger (for example), so that would be my one internet viewing concern.

My .02c



Gary Melton said:


> I also believe bayonets today on the modern battalfield are probably out dated and truth be told, no one carries them anymore. So if you did get into some crazy situation and you needed one, no one would have one to use anyways.
> Didnt realize I had so much opinion on this subject.. lol



(This is not a dig at you Gary)

GAAAH!  

I want to pull my teeth out with a chainsaw every time I hear this said.
The bayonet is a viable tool on the modern battlefield.

It places the user several feet away from the enemy he is engaging.
It is psychologically empowering to the user.

I have read/heard of many reports of troops running low or out of ammo, then reverting to or thinking about reverting to a fighting knife.
That is fucking stupid, the bayonet is the first line once you are black on ammo (regular troops without pistols) and it takes no transition (providing people have done their jobs properly and bayonets were fixed at the appropriate times).

After that you may use fighting knives/tomahawks etc...

Is a bayonet going to be used much? No, of course not but that is irrelevant IMO. How often have people thrown grenades, used Bangalore torpedo's, fighting knives, tomahawks etc...
How often does a CCW holder use their pistol?


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 14, 2011)

pardus said:


> How stable is it while in action?
> 
> There isn't a whole lot of contact with the hand unlike a T handle punch dagger (for example), so that would be my one internet viewing concern.
> 
> My .02c


 
The stability is provided in a much different manner than a punch dagger. You can easily use this as such but a punch dagger probably does that job a little beter. For your normal knife work I.E. Slicing items, cleaning fish or other game etc this does a MUCH better job. I still am surprised how secure and stable it feels and easy it is to work with. I'll some of the guys who bought one to write a quick review.



pardus said:


> (This is not a dig at you Gary)
> 
> GAAAH!
> 
> ...


----------



## pardus (Jul 14, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> The stability is provided in a much different manner than a punch dagger. You can easily use this as such but a punch dagger probably does that job a little beter. For your normal knife work I.E. Slicing items, cleaning fish or other game etc this does a MUCH better job. I still am surprised how secure and stable it feels and easy it is to work with. I'll some of the guys who bought one to write a quick review.



Understood, interesting. Looks like a cool little knife.
Thanks.


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 14, 2011)

pardus said:


> How stable is it while in action?
> 
> There isn't a whole lot of contact with the hand unlike a T handle punch dagger (for example), so that would be my one internet viewing concern.
> 
> ...



As far as a dig... Dig away brother! My wife regularly reminds me how often I am wrong. I wasnt dodging the second part of your question, I answered the knife issue and tried to answer the second part from my wife's phone and I fat fingered something and my very well articulated, brilliant response (ha ha even I think that is funny)was forever lost into cyber space and now you'll have to settle for something much less ....
I know what you are saying essentially, "it's better to have and not need than to need and not have" much like a first aid kit or any type of insurance... 
Personally, I just disagree applying that concept to the carry and use of a bayonet for several reasons. First being that after 2 tours to Iraq and Afghanistan I have never personally been in any situation nor even so much as heard of a situation that would warrant the use of a bayonet. (not to say it never happend) My other issue is that as stated above, all the GI bayonets I have ever seen were either junk or in such a state of disrepair that I dont think they are worth carrying. My main issue is that even in the peak of either Iraq or Afghanistan the moments where a bayonet could have been used I guarantee would be thousands of times less likely than the benefits of the use of a CCW stateside. I think the possibilities of the use of a bayonet are honestly SO miniscule that the space they take up just could be used by something much more useful. That brings me to another point.... Today the modern battlefield requires the soldier to carry more garbage with us than ever before. We have tons of shit we need/want to carry, then a ton more that we are required to carry just to even leave the wire. Before I redeployed in APR of this year from Afghanistan we were required to carry on us TWO different Personal Locator Beacons... both taking up more space and weighing more than the bayonet we are speaking of. This is just one of many of the requirements, and soldiers today are more than ever faced making hard choices on what to take and what to leave, what to leave in the truck and what to keep on their person etc... We all have at least one radio, all have double basic load most times, all have water (a must given our war theatres), all have body armor and helmet... I mean all of our trucks are so full of shit you can’t move; I mean they really are ridiculous. I know we have to consider all the complex scenarios and possibilities that we may confront on the modern battlefield and then do some risk management when deciding what gear we have to take. Given all this, I still believe the bayonet is an antiquated fighting tool and is WAY down the list of items that I would considered to take on a mission and don’t because of lack of space. IMHO 
I also know now that I have stated all this, sometime in the future I am gonna be in a trench somewhere, out of ammo, and the jihad horde barrelling down on me,  wishing I had a freakin bayonet!! THANKS Pardus!!


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## pardus (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for the input Gary.
I can't argue with most of your points.
I'd like to put a decent blade onto a bayonet and carry that as a multi purpose fighting/utility/bayonet weapon. Something I think should be easily done right?

Best bayonet Ive ever seen is the British P1888, If I could fit that to my M4 I'd take it with me.

Remember, the bayonet has been written off as obsolete many times since the late 19th century and has been found time and time again to be indispensable despite that. ;)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 14, 2011)

Although I agree that the current issue bayonet is a piece of shit and needs improvement, I also agree that a bayonet is a very necessary piece of equipment for an Infantryman. I believe the Black Watch regiment did a bayonet charge after running dry on ammo during an ambush in Iraq 2005 time frame, but I could be wrong. I carried a bayonet on both of my deployments to Iraq as did everyone in my IBCT (SOP).


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## Servimus (Jul 14, 2011)

JAB said:


> I believe the Black Watch regiment did a bayonet charge after running dry on ammo during an ambush in Iraq 2005 time frame, but I could be wrong.



:eek:
Wow. I didn't even know that kinds of stuff still happened. I'm imagining a 18th century bayonet charge a la Napoleon. That takes some serious balls.


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## pardus (Jul 15, 2011)

Servimus said:


> :eek:
> Wow. I didn't even know that kinds of stuff still happened. I'm imagining a 18th century bayonet charge a la Napoleon. That takes some serious balls.



:eek: 

Wow, that is the kinda shit that makes me shake my head...


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## Servimus (Jul 15, 2011)

Missed the sarcasm. Badly.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 15, 2011)

hmmm... sounds like an an updated bayonet design may be in order. I mean the thing is, if you have a nice, usable (trust-worthy) fighting knife that could  quickly and easily transfer to the role of bayonet.. who (combat arms) wouldnt have one? This idea is growing on me. I mean a custom bayonet made of some real quality steel. I may have to do some figuring on this.


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 15, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> The stability is provided in a much different manner than a punch dagger. You can easily use this as such but a punch dagger probably does that job a little better. For your normal knife work I.E. Slicing items, cleaning fish or other game etc this does a MUCH better job. I still am surprised how secure and stable it feels and easy it is to work with. I'll ask some of the guys who bought one to write a quick review.


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## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> hmmm... sounds like an an updated bayonet design may be in order. I mean the thing is, if you have a nice, usable (trust-worthy) fighting knife that could quickly and easily transfer to the role of bayonet.. who (combat arms) wouldnt have one? This idea is growing on me. I mean a custom bayonet made of some real quality steel. I may have to do some figuring on this.



thinking out loud....  non knife geeks, this might hurt your heads....

The re-designed bayonnet would need a differential heat treat so that there was edge retention, and the flexibility/toughness/durability/bend in the body of the blade...  a smooth austensite/martensite transition is going to be essential or a layered laminate transition for edge to body:-/....  it's the heat treat that's going to be the bear on it....  the basic design still needs to be a modified spear point with a short sharpened edge on top and a full sharpened edge on the bottom - so the there would have to be a "C" shaped heat treat at the "stabby end" of the design - hmmm......   a bayonnet that actually stays sharp enough to use, and isn't brittle .....  differentially heat treated Powdered metal or a well done multilayer laminate of powdered and nominals to get the edge and the light tool/spring for the body.....

Gary...  this could be doable....  not cheap but doable.... for an outstanding addition for Infantrymen...  I've seen your stuff...  but 'tiny', 'doc', 'gun bunny' and the 'mad african' might have to be asked some questions.....  at least by me.


----------



## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

Often in Italy the only difference between military and civilian knife is the possibility to lock it on the rifle... for this reason the sale of this stuff is prohibited, cause it's considered military weapon... like this
http://www.fkmdknives.com/fast/k/en/eur/products/v/34  (italian knife)


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## pardus (Jul 15, 2011)

Servimus said:


> Missed the sarcasm. Badly.



lol welcome to the internets!



Gary Melton said:


> hmmm... sounds like an an updated bayonet design may be in order. I mean the thing is, if you have a nice, usable (trust-worthy) fighting knife that could quickly and easily transfer to the role of bayonet.. who (combat arms) wouldnt have one? This idea is growing on me. I mean a custom bayonet made of some real quality steel. I may have to do some figuring on this.



*Bloody good idea!*

I could combat test that for you if you have it up and running in the next 6 months.

Despite being a friend of the Troll I'm begining to think you are a good guy.


----------



## LibraryLady (Jul 15, 2011)

pardus said:


> ... Despite being a friend of the Troll I'm begining to think you are a good guy.



If it matters to anyone, the soon to be Mr Melton is good to go in my book.  He's managed to land a hot wife, and his kids are adorable and well minded.  Of course, we'll see what happens when they reach the teenage part of life.  I'm sure the boyz will be properly trained to repel all potential boyfriends of their sisters... 

LL


----------



## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

pardus said:


> ...Despite being a friend of the Troll I'm begining to think you are a good guy.



He's an overgrown Bastige (like you) with too many cool grindy thingies in his shop...  and a Trollnapper.

but he makes nice sharp pointy thngs....  his only personally redeeming quality...  I have no clue what his wife sees in him...:-/


----------



## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

JAB said:


> Too late D.I.C.K. I already ordered mine! Thats right bitches.....Me gots the first (well at least the first one sold):-|.


JAB I'm officially the second...LOL (ordered)


----------



## x SF med (Jul 15, 2011)

Order knives!!!  All of you!  Order knives!


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## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

Gary, ethc designs SS on the blade... lol


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 15, 2011)

Personally I am a fan of the old M7 bayonet (just wish it fit on an M4); I think that keeping a dagger type point, with a thin blade is the way to go. There are many types of bayonet designs out there already; I think the key is KISS, with more of focus on light weight and durability. Having a wire cutter, saw serration and sheath that weighs as much as the bayonet is not the way I would go with it. I am not really sure it needs to have a real handle on it to be honest. Trying to dual role a field knife into a bayonet or vice versa, is just going to drive the cost up to a point where you’re going to lose a market base due to cost. I would go the other rout and build something incredibly light weight, hard as it can be, with the total design based around thrusting and slashing.

7” long, 1” wide, 3/16” thick, maybe some cutting serrations down one side, dual sharpened dagger point and a good hardy spine.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 15, 2011)

x SF med said:


> thinking out loud.... non knife geeks, this might hurt your heads....
> 
> The re-designed bayonnet would need a differential heat treat so that there was edge retention, and the flexibility/toughness/durability/bend in the body of the blade... a smooth austensite/martensite transition is going to be essential or a layered laminate transition for edge to body:-/.... it's the heat treat that's going to be the bear on it.... the basic design still needs to be a modified spear point with a short sharpened edge on top and a full sharpened edge on the bottom - so the there would have to be a "C" shaped heat treat at the "stabby end" of the design - hmmm...... a bayonnet that actually stays sharp enough to use, and isn't brittle ..... differentially heat treated Powdered metal or a well done multilayer laminate of powdered and nominals to get the edge and the light tool/spring for the body.....
> 
> Gary... this could be doable.... not cheap but doable.... for an outstanding addition for Infantrymen... I've seen your stuff... but 'tiny', 'doc', 'gun bunny' and the 'mad african' might have to be asked some questions..... at least by me.



I see where you're going with the differential heat treatment the problem is, it is almost impossible to diff H/T stainless. As you said you COULD go with a laminate of some sort but you'd be either looking at crazy mass production to keep price down or we are talking a $1000.00 PLUS knife. Mass productions is the antithesis of the direction I want to go in. Honestly, I think we could get what we are looking for out of some of  the particle steels. Some of these are EXTREMELY tough. I think the way to go is start out with around 5/16" stock, I agree with the spear point but keep everything fairly beefy, We can get a good heat treat that keeps us around 57-58 HRc. This is full point to two points than the Yarborough which is 55-57 Rc and you know how sharp that knife still stays. I think you have to go with the stainless for ease of maintenance and a knife done in ELMAX, S35VN, or even VANAX 35 properly heat treated and 5/16" thick will damn near impossible to break! I mean seriously, if you break it you were doing some crazy shit. So in the end you have a extreme corrosion resistance, you have a knife with unheard of edge retention, AND it will withstand 1000's of pounds of lateral force!  I think we could deliver all that for as cheap or cheaper than the SENTRY REMOVAL SAW that looks exactly like the Yarborough and "is currently being adapted to or by or whatever by Special Forces" (WTF  that means)!
Jesus Pardus, youre keeping my dance card full. I have to remake the Smatchet AND Bayonet!!


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 15, 2011)

JAB said:


> Personally I am a fan of the old M7 bayonet (just wish it fit on an M4); I think that keeping a dagger type point, with a thin blade is the way to go. There are many types of bayonet designs out there already; I think the key is KISS, with more of focus on light weight and durability. Having a wire cutter, saw serration and sheath that weighs as much as the bayonet is not the way I would go with it. I am not really sure it needs to have a real handle on it to be honest. Trying to dual role a field knife into a bayonet or vice versa, is just going to drive the cost up to a point where you’re going to lose a market base due to cost. I would go the other rout and build something incredibly light weight, hard as it can be, with the total design based around thrusting and slashing.
> 
> 7” long, 1” wide, 3/16” thick, maybe some cutting serrations down one side, dual sharpened dagger point and a good hardy spine.



 I absolutely agree with most of what youre saying, but think we can effectively pull off a good field knife that has the ability to attach to your rifle. I think expecting from or adding anything else to it and you start losing the simplicity of what we need and it's practicality. It doesnt need to be Swiss Army Knife that bolts on to a barrel. It needs to be a knife that can be used as a spear which are the two oldest tools in my cave! I mean troll was making both even BEFORE he secured the patent on the wheel! ;)


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## pardus (Jul 15, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Jesus Pardus, youre keeping my dance card full. I have to remake the Smatchet AND Bayonet!!



Oh, Ive only just begun...

We haven't even talked about a tomahawk or punch dagger yet.   :cool:


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 15, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> I absolutely agree with most of what youre saying, but think we can effectively pull off a good field knife that has the ability to attach to your rifle. I think expecting from or adding anything else to it and you start losing the simplicity of what we need and it's practicality. It doesnt need to be Swiss Army Knife that bolts on to a barrel. It needs to be a knife that can be used as a spear which are the two oldest tools in my cave! I mean troll was making both even BEFORE he secured the patent on the wheel! ;)



See and thats why you are the knife maker and I am the knife breaker...;)


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## pardus (Jul 15, 2011)

JAB said:


> Personally I am a fan of the old M7 bayonet (just wish it fit on an M4);



There are much better bayonets out there than the M7, it will break far too easily with a little lateral pressure.
The Brit L1A1 bayonet is a great little short bayonet, much thicker than the M7.

As I stated earlier, the P1888 is the best bayonet Ive ever seen, 12" blade, and a thick solid blade that you won't break.
If I could get that bayonet to fit my M4 I'd be a happy chap!

At 12" you have enough length to use this bayonet as a short sword which is bloody awesome!
Bring it hadji!


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 15, 2011)

pardus said:


> There are much better bayonets out there than the M7, it will break far too easily with a little lateral pressure.
> The Brit L1A1 bayonet is a great little short bayonet, much thicker than the M7.
> 
> As I stated earlier, the P1888 is the best bayonet Ive ever seen, 12" blade, and a thick solid blade that you won't break.
> ...



Yeah I have only used the M7 and the M9 bayonet thus far, the M7 stabs alot better then the M9. Never broke my M7 still have it, but I really never put a lot of lateral pressure on it either. What I really like about the M7 was that it was super light weight, did not take up a bunch of room on my kit and went through rubber tires like butter (so I figured it should do the same for Hadji). But I never got to carry it while deployed, had to carry the M9 bayonet due to the M4 issue..


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 16, 2011)

LibraryLady said:


> If it matters to anyone, the soon to be Mr Melton is good to go in my book. He's managed to land a hot wife, and his kids are adorable and well minded. Of course, we'll see what happens when they reach the teenage part of life. I'm sure the boyz will be properly trained to repel all potential boyfriends of their sisters...
> 
> LL


Yeah.. She's pretty amazing. I dont know what she see's in me but I am glad she stays around! My life is full of wonderful things that I dont deserve. I think God feels sorry for me or somthing;) He's always squaring me away!


----------



## Gary Melton (Jul 16, 2011)

Ok.. I was able to knock out the heat treat. Here you can see we used 2200 degree foil and then pulled it out of the oven after a 30 min soak at 1950. From there we throw it onto the quench plates then shoot air in around the edges, rapidly cooling and hardening the steel. Within about a min it’s cool enough to touch.
  
Once it’s cooled down and removed from the foil, I clean the entire blade again with acetone and check for warping that may have occurred. From there we put the knife at the bottom of the styrofoam cooler then pour liquid nitrogen over the top. We'll keep the blade in here at -300 F for approx 8 hrs.
   
MOST IMPORTANT: when getting ready to pour the liquid nitrogen you'll be standing there with all your protective gear on, gloves, apron, face shield looking like a mad scientist. As the nitrogen starts to come out and is billowing smoke everywhere you MUST, I say again, MUST laugh maniacally!! If you dont well.... you will be doomed!


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

Very bloody cool!


----------



## x SF med (Jul 16, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> ...MOST IMPORTANT: when getting ready to pour the liquid nitrogen you'll be standing there with all your protective gear on, gloves, apron, face shield looking like a mad scientist. As the nitrogen starts to come out and is billowing smoke everywhere you MUST, I say again, MUST laugh maniacally!! If you dont well.... you will be doomed!



it's even better when Eye-Gore walks up and laughs with you....

...and since when is laughing maniacally reserved for you pouring nitrogen...  the grill causes it, the grinder, the kydex forming, hell just waking into the shop and you sound like a bad horror-monster-movie-flick...


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> There are much better bayonets out there than the M7,* it will break far too easily* with a little lateral pressure.
> The Brit L1A1 bayonet is a great little short bayonet, much thicker than the M7.
> 
> As I stated earlier, the P1888 is the best bayonet Ive ever seen, 12" blade, and a thick solid blade that you won't break.
> ...



Yep; I remember doing bayonnette training at ROTC advanced camp.  I saw at least four bayonnettes snap off during training, I resolved right then and there that if it ever came time for hand to hand, I would go with an e-tool or using my M-16 as a club.  Was not impressed with our issue bayonnette.


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

The E tool is an excellent weapon.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> The E tool is an excellent weapon.



Yep; I learned how to use it by watching Platoon.  That and the Claymore.  :-/


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Yep; I learned how to use it by watching Platoon. That and the Claymore. :-/



Like the new smileys Boon, but we REALLY need a DOH! one again...


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> The E tool is an excellent weapon.


 
I had this DS in OSUT (SFC Thomas) he was 10th Mountain veteran and was part of the group that pulled TF Ranger out of Mogadishu, he had 3 kills with an E tool (said they ran out of ammo quick and resorted to smashing and breaking). He was the talk of Sand Hill around that time frame; he would give the in processing speech down at 30th AG always intro’ed by another DS “this is SFC Thomas, he has 3 enemy kills with a shovel” then Thomas would give the speech while twirling an E tool. LOL dude looked crazy as shit…


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

JAB said:


> I had this DS in OSUT (SFC Thomas) he was 10th Mountain veteran and was part of the group that pulled TF Ranger out of Mogadishu, he had 3 kills with an E tool (said they ran out of ammo quick and resorted to smashing and breaking). He was the talk of Sand Hill around that time frame; he would give the in processing speech down at 30th AG always intro’ed by another DS “this is SFC Thomas, he has 3 enemy kills with a shovel” then Thomas would give the speech while twirling an E tool. LOL dude looked crazy as shit…



HA! That is fucking awesome mate!

3 kills, no mean achievement at all! Kudos! That is a man dedicated to his profession, and yes, I'm sure he was crazy as batshit. Seen many many that are.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 16, 2011)

JAB said:


> I had this DS in OSUT (SFC Thomas) he was 10th Mountain veteran and was part of the group that pulled TF Ranger out of Mogadishu, he had 3 kills with an E tool (said they ran out of ammo quick and resorted to smashing and breaking). He was the talk of Sand Hill around that time frame; he would give the in processing speech down at 30th AG always intro’ed by another DS “this is SFC Thomas, he has 3 enemy kills with a shovel” then Thomas would give the speech while twirling an E tool. LOL dude looked crazy as shit…



Dude carried an e-tool in Mogadishu- seriously?  Was he going to dig in at Bakara Market or something?  Interesting story, just sounds a little fishy to me.


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

Interesting, I'm not that versed with the story, did the 10th get into heavy combat during the battle?

If a Ranger had an e-tool I'd have no problem believing it was at least possible. 10th? No idea.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 16, 2011)

I just don't see anyone carrying an e-tool in that environment.  Then again, maybe it was SOP for the unit, I think it was mandatory in the 101st when I was in; yeah I did a lot of digging in with my TOW platoon


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Dude carried an e-tool in Mogadishu- seriously? Was he going to dig in at Bakara Market or something? Interesting story, just sounds a little fishy to me.


 
I don’t know for sure if he actually did or not, just the story we all got and he never denied it. I know he was one of the very few DS’s who had a CIB and combat patch (I think 4 DS’s all 10 Mountain from Mogadishu), and my silly PV1 ass was not going to question the truth of it. LMAO:eek:

FYI: I have heard more than a few accounts of E tools, Bayonets and enemy weapons being used by soldiers who were in Mogadishu. But I was not there so it could be BS, you never know though…


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 16, 2011)

JAB said:


> I don’t know for sure if he actually did or not, just the story we all got and he never denied it. I know he was one of the very few DS’s who had a CIB and combat patch (I think 4 DS’s all 10 Mountain from Mogadishu), and* my silly PV1 ass was not going to question the truth of it*. LMAO:eek:
> 
> FYI: I have heard more than a few accounts of E tools, Bayonets and enemy weapons being used by soldiers who were in Mogadishu. But I was not there so it could be BS, you never know though…



Roger, good call :)

Not saying it didn't happen, just saying it's a bit unusual.  If you're going legit hand-to-hand, it means that you AND the enemy have BOTH run out of bullets at the exact same time; otherwise someone's getting shot.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> Interesting, I'm not that versed with the story, did the 10th get into heavy combat during the battle?
> 
> If a Ranger had an e-tool I'd have no problem believing it was at least possible. 10th? No idea.





> When Task Force Ranger and the SAR team were pinned down during a raid in what later became known as the Battle of Mogadishu, 10th Mountain units provided infantry for the UN quick reaction force sent to rescue them. The 10th had two soldiers killed in the fighting, which was the longest sustained firefight by regular US Army forces since the Vietnam War.[4]


 
Pulled from 10th's History.


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

JAB said:


> and my silly PV1 ass was not going to question the truth of it.…



Pussy!

DS: "I killed motherfuckers with an etool!"

pv1 JAB: "Bullshit you cunt!"


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> Roger, good call :)
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, just saying it's a bit unusual. If you're going legit hand-to-hand, it means that you AND the enemy have BOTH run out of bullets at the exact same time; otherwise someone's getting shot.


 
Not necessarily, especially in an urban environment. Coming up on a corner and all the sudden a dude pops out and runs into you, if all you have left is an E tool then you got to make it work or yes you will get shot. I think I would be jumping into an up armored truck if I was out of ammo, or at least grabbing whatever weapon did have ammo. Who knows, it was a different Army back then. I could see some commanders pushing his unit through even being black on ammo. I would never want to be in that situation though.


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## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

JAB said:


> Pulled from 10th's History.



Yeah I know they went in etc... but my limited knowledge was that the 10th didn't do to much outside of their vehicles.
Two dead tells me the 10th were bloody lucky or they didn't get into much heavy fighting that would cause someone to be A, black on ammo and/or almost overrun and needed to use an etool.

Mara, trust me, I'm going to take weapons that many will think are strange. When is the last time someone was killed in combat with a Viking axe?  ;)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> Pussy!
> 
> DS: "I killed motherfuckers with an etool!"
> 
> pv1 JAB: "Bullshit you cunt!"



LMAO dude when I was a PV1 cherry I was scared to death of anyone with chevrons, don’t get me started on a senior NCO/Officer (I remember literally shaking at the knees during a few encounters). I was a “roger, moving” kind of troop up into my first deployment (watched a few buddies die) and I changed to a “fuck you, you do that stupid shit” kind of troop. :-|


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 16, 2011)

pardus said:


> Yeah I know they went in etc... but my limited knowledge was that the 10th didn't do to much outside of their vehicles.
> Two dead tells me the 10th were bloody lucky or they didn't get into much heavy fighting that would cause someone to be A, black on ammo and/or almost overrun and needed to use an etool.
> 
> Mara, trust me, I'm going to take weapons that many will think are strange. When is the last time someone was killed in combat with a Viking axe? ;)





> Somalia, 1993
> 
> On 3 October 1993, 2-14 Infantry was part of the quick reaction force which helped rescue members of Special Operations Task Force Ranger which had conducted a daylight raid on an enemy stronghold.
> 
> ...


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## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks JAB.

I suspect that movement was conducted mounted though.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 19, 2011)

About complete on this knife for a Chaplain currently deployed. I finished the handle on this and put it on and MAN.. I just had to stand back a check this thing out! This is a multi cam micarta, I have used it before but it was on highly textured handles and not on a more traditionally contoured handle.. man it's sexy.. it made this whole knife. I had just washed these and apparently didnt dry them enough, hence the water spots you see both on blades and handles. Thought you guys might like to see it.  . I of course want to hear all of your thoughts on this knife.. the good, the bad, the ugly... I know you guys need encouragment, everyone is SO concerned about hurting people's feelings!!

  

Troll.... I need you (never thought I would start a sentence with those words:eek:) and your camera skills... I suck at photography!
Enjoy!


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## mike_cos (Jul 19, 2011)

Cool!!


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## Marauder06 (Jul 19, 2011)

Nicely done.


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## x SF med (Jul 19, 2011)

Having watched this knife develop (all that needs to be said on the OPSEC side)...  the final product is truly the Sword of God for the Chaplain...  Saint Michael himself would carry it proudly.

Keep the design specs for this one... it's going to fly out the door.

I will bring the camera down and snap photos.


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## mike_cos (Jul 19, 2011)

x SF med said:


> ... Saint Michael himself would carry it proudly.


..hey it's me... already ordered thanks..


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## pardus (Jul 19, 2011)

I have to say that is a bloody sexy knife Gary!


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## Gary Melton (Jul 19, 2011)

Ok... thanks to the tutoring and persuasivness of our resident Italian Paratrooper... We (MKD) are now on facebook. It was a international effort but we pulled it off and I have stepped into the 21st Century! I have thrown off the old useless vestiges of  face to face interaction with people and now concern myself only with a society that I can neither touch or confirm authenticity. Where eveyone is recognized by a picture known as an Avatar and are judged by the wit and humor of said picture...  LOL.. I am actually not THAT bitter about my surrender to the IPOD Nation... it's actually kinda fun lol...
So make me your friend!!! Or I will start a blog and slam all of you!! Ha!! Facebook UN: Gary Melton and Melton Knife and Design.... See you there!


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## pardus (Jul 19, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> So make me your friend!!! Or I will start a blog and slam all of you!! Ha!! Facebook UN: Gary Melton and Melton Knife and Design.... See you there!



NEVER!

Oh wait... Smatchet... hmm ok... I guess...


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## x SF med (Jul 19, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> Ok... thanks to the tutoring and persuasivness of our resident Italian Paratrooper... We (MKD) are now on facebook. It was a international effort but we pulled it off and I have stepped into the 21st Century! I have thrown off the old useless vestiges of face to face interaction with people and now concern myself only with a society that I can neither touch or confirm authenticity. Where eveyone is recognized by a picture known as an Avatar and are judged by the wit and humor of said picture... LOL.. I am actually not THAT bitter about my surrender to the IPOD Nation... it's actually kinda fun lol...
> So make me your friend!!! Or I will start a blog and slam all of you!! Ha!! Facebook UN: Gary Melton and Melton Knife and Design.... See you there!


 
You have been assimilated by the Borg...  oh. crap.
I still owe you a beer (or 3)when 'the coast is clear'


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## mike_cos (Jul 19, 2011)

Gary Melton said:


> of our resident evil Italian Paratrooper...


LOL...


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## Gary Melton (Jul 20, 2011)

Here we have the Combat Bowie with some Carbon Fiber hardware. It's almost too pretty to be a knife!


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## Manolito (Jul 20, 2011)

http://www.digital-photography-school.com/how-to-make-a-inexpensive-light-tent
Gary this would help a lot.
Bill


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## x SF med (Jul 20, 2011)

Ok...  Last pic...  Combat Bowie and the "Sword of God"...  or whatever the real name is going to be... is just way too much sharpened steel in one place.... SWEET!  I will try to get down there take more pics for you this weekend, or we could meet out at Mt. Ranier or that area to get shots in their 'natural environment'....  Hmmm....  could be really nice for marketing.


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## Gary Melton (Jul 24, 2011)

If you guys get a chance go to www.meltonknifeanddesign.com and go to the message board and participate in the "Whats your favorite knife and why?" discussion. I would really like to hear what everyone here likes in a knife from your perspective... Thanks!


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