# Rucking problems...



## 03cpl (May 18, 2011)

I've looked around and found a lot of good advice on rucking here but I need some additional information.

I'm a Marine reservist scheduled to go to MARSOC A&S this summer/fall. I feel like I'm mostly ready but one area I'm continuing to struggle with is Rucking. I can ruck forever, but I'm slower than I want to be. I'm also short... a little over five feet... that probably has something to do with it. I can pull off a 15:30 mile without much trouble. My goal pace is 14 min per mile. I read somewhere that the average hike time for the 12 mile at A&S was two hours fifty minutes and my goal pace would put me close to that. I don't want to score just average on the hike but 14 min per mile is realistic for now. I've tried a few things to improve my ruck times but I haven't found a solution yet. I currently do  1, 3, and 10 mile rucks weekly with a 50lbs pack. I'd appreciate any advice, especially from any operator that is close to my height.


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## BearW (May 18, 2011)

I'm a short(er) guy @ 5'7 and my most recent 13km (or 8miler with 77lbs before water) time is 1hour 14mins and my plan of attack was to run my hole off. I shuffle it all in gravel, with good boots(lowa zephyr's) and i find the gravel/dirt easier on the knees and hips than hard pack.

I start shuffling right off the hop man, and i try to tuck in behind a tall fast guy. I've never been like a cardio fit kinda guy but i have that kind of syndrome where i can follow at just about any pace even tho it messes me right up-like an old dog or something.

i dunno man-works for me.

Bear


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## digrar (May 18, 2011)

15.30 miles is a touch over 6kmh (6.192kmh if I did my adding up right), which is normal marching around the barracks pace in this part of the world. Striding out isn't going to help you, so it's down to increasing your leg turn over. Shorter quicker paces, find a rhythm that you can maintain and build the fitness so you can keep it up for a couple of hours. You might want to also incorporate a bit of shuffling (not sure if that's allowed?) 10 or 15 seconds of shuffling every minute will greatly increase the amount of ground you're covering.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 18, 2011)

Ruck squats, lots of them....

Ruck up hill, find a good ¼ to ½ mile hill and ruck up and down it….It’s going to hurt but is will strengthen your legs. Try and keep the 14-15 minute pace on the hills and try and push yourself to a 13-14 minute pace on flat/rolling terrain.

Stretch your legs prior to rucking, and then when you are rucking stretch your stride out (take longer steps). This will help you get rid of the short stride that us shorter people suffer from.

Find a ¼ mile marker from your house, run to it and back…as soon as you get back to the house/yard put your ruck on and do 25 squats. Take the ruck off and repeat ….

The big key is to stretch your stride out and strengthen your legs…….Suffer on the hills and with the squats, make it the hardest conditions possible without hurting yourself. I would do the hills once or twice a week, the run & squats two or three times a week and then ruck 15 to 18 miles once a week (cross country if possible).


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## 03cpl (May 19, 2011)

thank you gentlemen, I appreciate your advice.


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## Marauder06 (May 19, 2011)

15-minute mile pace is about as fast as I can comfortably walk with a ruck, any faster I have to shuffle.  I usually try to run when I can along the flats and downhill, and dig in and speedwalk up hills.  Works for me.  I also recommend you stretch really well before and after your ruck, every time.  And make sure you have a good pair of broken-in boots.  You can injure yourself by doing a lot of running with a heavy ruck, so make sure you don't overtrain.


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## Pistol_Pete (May 19, 2011)

As far as "technique" goes, I have little to add other than I always packed, balanced adjusted, fit and wore my ruck as near to "perfect" as I could get it and that includes properly using the chest band, waist or hip band, and getting everything set and balanced as best as I could. Hell, I probably would have hooked up a head band "strap" (appropriately High Speed looking and in function of course) like some villager somewhere carrying "500 pounds" in a big straw basket with a rag around their forehead to the basket - if I had thought of it.

Other than that, yes you will end up "running", shuffling, jogging, walking with your ruck off and on for various distances if you are like most guys. That's the life of the Combat Arms Ground Pounder and yes - Special Operators must excel at Ground Pounding skills like bread and butter. Not everything is a glorious chopper ride in with an assault combat load, double tap the bad guy and one to the head, grab the intel and scoot. Much of it is routine training - over and over again. Tasks as mundane as picking up a monstrous ruck and pounding out the mileage with it. Or exiting an aircraft in flight with it and everything else including your weapons strapped to you - at night, and they put you off the DZ.

Become one with the giant wart. Learn to love the suck. IMO, 90% or better of everything in this game is mental. We just pick up our rucks and do it, cause that's what we do. Or used to do in the case of us Former Action Guys. It may sound flippant, but I think from an Infantryman to a Special Operations team, that's pretty much how much thought they put into it. Just pick the fucker up, groan softly in your misery if you must, and continue on with the many tasks ahead of you. You do it and make it happen because you are damn glad to be there and are doing things that few others have seen or done. There are not too many "strategies" other than maybe the tips given by some of the other walking hunch backs and broke-dicks around here that I can think of it other than perhaps using your gear as it was meant and to your best advantage.


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## Etype (May 20, 2011)

I'd say a 12-13 min/mile pace is competitive/good for Army SOF units, granted you can maintain it for 12 miles or more, of course it gets closer to, and eventually exceeds 15 min/mile when you get up the 18-20 something milers- I'm sure it's about the same in the Marines, most SOF units have comparable standards and candidates.

Like Pete said, you just have to learn to embrace it. It's like being in the field for 2 weeks, or deploying to a shit fire base- just embrace the fact that it sucks, it's not going to get any easier, and there are people all over the world who have it just as hard- but for them, it's just life as usual.


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## Marauder06 (May 20, 2011)

Footmarching was one of the only PT events that came easy to me.  We'd do one a week in the 327, same in 5th Group.  I'd rather hump 12 miles with a heavy ruck than run 5.


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## Headshot (May 20, 2011)

Buy a can of lighter fluid, some matches, burn the ruck and take the bus.


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## TLDR20 (May 20, 2011)

One question, why are you rucking 1 mile? You cannot even get warm in 1 mile. Instead of doing 1,3, and 10 miles why not do 3,5, and 8 then start building up to longer


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 20, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> One question, why are you rucking 1 mile? You cannot even get warm in 1 mile. Instead of doing 1,3, and 10 miles why not do 3,5, and 8 then start building up to longer


 
Yeah I agree, if you know you have a 12 mile'r you have to meet at 3 hrs (2 1/2 is where it should be), why would you waste your time with anything less then 12 miles unless your building strength or speed. I would be doing the 12 (more like 15-18) at least once a week.


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## 03cpl (May 20, 2011)

Again thank you for the advice. My MOS is infantry so I'm not a stranger to having my body weight on my back, my only concern is being competitive at A&S. to explain myself a little better the reason I do a 1 mile hike is because as soon as I'm done I drop my pack, change my footwear and run 5 miles. This may not have much training value for rucking but it's fun. The 3 mile is for pace, and the ten mile is for distance. I just measured out a twelve mile route. I was doing ten because I just used my route for a five mile run and did it twice.

I think I'm just gonna end up shuffling most of the time... which is not ideal but I'll make it work. Thanks again.


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## 03cpl (May 20, 2011)

If anyone here is with the 19th SF and would be interested in mentoring me I'm sure we could work something out, just PM me.


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## amlove21 (May 20, 2011)

03cpl- Read the info/ New Guys Start here. Find the First Post thread, read it, and post your intro. Thanks.


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## 03cpl (May 21, 2011)

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/introduction.9562/


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## Mac_NZ (May 21, 2011)

Take 1 pack, fill with weight.
Take 1 sturdy box approx 1ft high.
Take 1 television and DVD player, insert Blackhawk down or some such and proceed to do step ups for the duration.

It gives you something to inspire you maybe and helps break up the tedium.


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## TLDR20 (May 21, 2011)

03cpl said:


> http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/introduction.9562/



In order to post in this forum(SOF Mentor Program) you must introduce yourself in the thread titled First Post. If you look at the thread that my esteemed PJ friend pointed you in the direction of you would have passed this station. But you did not. Instead of doing the right thing and paying attention to detail. You did the blatantly wrong thing and then posted a link to your mistake.

The reason that this whole sub-forum was started was to help guys like you make it. However if I do not have a detailed description of who you are and what you want from my community(SOF), I cannot help you. However if you post a good intro in the first post thread in this sub-forum, I get a clearer picture of who you are and what you want. It can shape the responses you can receive greatly. Look at the difference in username: is Fridays posts/the responses to his posts, before and after his introduction in the sub-forum.

Also imagine if you had set apart time to come up with this idea to help young studs become SOF guys, you then issue simple as fuck instructions and then you are blown off by said wannabe. It would prolly get you hot and bothered. I just happened to be the guy who came up with this idea, and your disregard for the rules of this sub-forum pisses me off. Just a little for now, but in the future a little bit of forethought, attention to detail, and research will go a long way for you.


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## 03cpl (May 21, 2011)

I apologize when you said- Read the info/ New Guys Start here- I thought you meant for the entire forum not just this sub forum.


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## 03cpl (May 21, 2011)

problem solved.


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## madness unseen (May 21, 2011)

Pistol_Pete said:


> As far as "technique" goes... Learn to love the suck. IMO, 90% or better of everything in this game is mental. We just pick up our rucks and do it, cause that's what we do. Or used to do in the case of *us Former Action Guys*. It may sound flippant...



You just called yourself and the other retirees FAGs. :confused::-| Sorry I interrupted cback, but I just HAD to make light of that. Back to scouring.


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## Pistol_Pete (May 21, 2011)

Yes, I see you have  gotten that favorite old SOF acronym joke     Surely you are pulling my leg and this isn't the first time you have heard that one?  Then again, I see reports that the some of the newer generation doesn't even know the old "panty hose" tricks or tincture.  Not that I ever used the nylons, I'll stick with my issue dress socks thank you very much :cool:


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## madness unseen (May 21, 2011)

Pistol_Pete said:


> Yes, I see you have gotten that favorite old SOF acronym joke  Surely you are pulling my leg and this isn't the first time you have heard that one? Then again, I see reports that the some of the newer generation doesn't even know the old "panty hose" tricks or tincture. Not that I ever used the nylons, I'll stick with my issue dress socks thank you very much :cool:


As a kid (8th grader) I used aptly named "liner socks" when hiking, same idea, minus the tincture.


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## amlove21 (May 22, 2011)

03cpl said:


> problem solved.


Not too shabby. Only took 3 separate sets of instructions from no less than 2 SOF guys to get you there.


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## Marauder06 (May 22, 2011)

Pistol_Pete said:


> Yes, I see you have gotten that favorite old SOF acronym joke  Surely you are pulling my leg and this isn't the first time you have heard that one? Then again, I see reports that the some of the newer generation doesn't even know the old "panty hose" tricks or tincture. Not that I ever used the nylons, I'll stick with my issue dress socks thank you very much :cool:



I tried the dress socks thing one time- at the 12-miler at Air Assault School when I was a cadet.  It was my first 12-miler and I was nervous, I remembered my dad (SF) saying he wore dress socks under his green socks, so the night before the 12-miler I decided I'd do that too.  Bad mistake, I made the march and graduated the course but my feet were destroyed, never had blisters like that since.  Two lessons for me- 1) don't change at the last second something that has worked for you in the past 2) two pair of OD green, cushion-sole cotton socks and a good pair of leg boots are the way to go for me.


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## Pistol_Pete (May 22, 2011)

Marauder06 said:


> I tried the dress socks thing one time- at the 12-miler at Air Assault School when I was a cadet. It was my first 12-miler and I was nervous, I remembered my dad (SF) saying he wore dress socks under his green socks, so the night before the 12-miler I decided I'd do that too. Bad mistake, I made the march and graduated the course but my feet were destroyed, never had blisters like that since. Two lessons for me- 1) don't change at the last second something that has worked for you in the past 2) two pair of OD green, cushion-sole cotton socks and a good pair of leg boots are the way to go for me.



Yeah, it doesn't work for everyone so that's why I definitely reccomend that anyone contemplating using some sort of nylon or other synthetic fabric as a friction barrier first try it out on their own well in advance of a critical task or mandatory ruck march.  I use that technique but ONLY in conjunction with the tincture and it works for me and lessens the severity and locations of blisters but I haven't found anything that will guarantee 100% blister or hot-spot free feet after putting them through some heavy use.  Except for the advice above that denotes setting the ruck on fire and taking the bus.


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## digrar (Nov 12, 2016)

Jay_Pew said:


> I used my grandfathers old WWII ruck, which was pretty good,



No it's not, it's a terrible bit of gear and probably a big reason you're experiencing discomfort. 



Jay_Pew said:


> I'm also definitely having trouble keeping a consistent pace. I know you aren't supposed to run with the ruck, but it almost feels like I have to slightly jog to keep pace. Any advice as to better being able to hold pace?



It's your first stomp, you're not going to be a jet straight up. As you get used to it, you'll be able to keep up the pace without running or shuffling.


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## Yosemite (Nov 12, 2016)

I'm also training for CCT right now and routinely ruck once or twice a week.



Jay_Pew said:


> Any advice as to better being able to hold pace?


Practice, practice, practice.
As with anything, you must develop a good comfortable technique and stride that you can maintain. It will be different for everyone because everyone has different body proportions and levels of strength/cardio ability. Developing a good technique takes practice, just like your swim strokes and running strides.

Weightlifting has definitely helped me with my ruck pace. I can hold a 10:30 for 4 miles right now and I attibute a lot of that to the weightlifting I do. Don't just do heavy squat/deadlifts though. Try to superset and dropset your exercises. You want your legs to burn because that's how they will feel when you're rucking. Work on leg endurance.

Definitely seekout a better ruck. Poor equipment can lead to injuries and then you won't be able to train for a considerable amount of time. You need a solid ruck, good boots, and good socks.

If you're just starting out, try varying distances. Go for a 5 miler, but at a walking pace to build leg endurance. Then go for a 2 miler at your goals pace. Try 3 miles at a fast pace but walk mile 2. Etc etc. Change it up and train towards your goals. Don't just get out there and sweat your balls off without a plan. That is how I have experienced a lot of progression in the last 3 months or so.


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## dap (Jun 18, 2017)

I'm not in the service but I'm pretty much ready to go on a 1200 mile thru hike of the Pacific Northwest Trail from Glacier National Park , MT until I plunge myself into the Pacific Ocean. I have all my tickets and permits and my Amtrak to East Glacier where I am planning to add an extra 110 miles to my ruck to the Chief Mountain Custom USA-Canada border to begin my trek from the official start of the PNT! I'm an ultra light backpacker and my baseweight in 14 pounds and with food and water and fuel I am sitting around 22-23 pounds with some luxury items (projector, iPad, and bluetooth speaker - sex appeal in the fire lookout baby, it's movie night).

Backpacker basics:  Proper fitting boots. Proper fitting clothes (nothing cotton). TOE SOCKS!!! INJINI OR DARN TOUGH OR SMARTWOOL!!! Prevents blisters in between toes... Us marathoners know what's up! Proper fitting backpack. Make sure it's packed right... light stuff like sleeping pad and clothes or whatever at the bottom, then medium heavy in the center (I typically put my whole sleep systems in a waterproof bag, and then whatever you wanna quick grab at the top. Since you're a Marine you need a backpack with a frame that can support at least 80-100lbs. Make sure it fits close to your body and use the load levelers if you can. Also put the bag on properly too. If you have REI nearby ask them to help you if you don't already know, but I like to start with my shoulder straps, then chest, then belt buckle, and load levelers if I have them. 

Run a lot. A LOT! As fast as you can as many times a week as you can without injury. Take a week off every third or fourth week) and Swim a lot too! I really love women's aerobics aka: crossfag. It's usually between Barre and Booty Pump or Zumba, but if you can get into Booty / Body Pump it's the best. Have you ever done 60 minutes of non stop squats and lunges with 60-100 pounds? Trust me these women have and they could break 90% of men's necks with the techniques coming out their buttcheeks. They rock it on the trail! I've been checked in half marathon Spartan Races by women rucking uphill with 40lbs and they are like "This is what carrying a child helps you do!"

The best thing though is simply to ruck. Move as fast as you can up the steepest mountains you can. I live in Seattle so the best mountains in the country are basically all around me so I'm lucky but I mean... If you're in New York or something try and goto some tall buildings and use their stairwells... Empire State would be a dope race to the top in all your gear. Try not to pass out.  Best of ruck (LOL!) to you in all your endeavors!


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## dap (Jun 18, 2017)

Oh, PS: There was a person that I had met once who I think mentioned he had attended Ranger school or something. He produced from SUPER LIGHT boots that I think were made by Nike if I recall... Like Nike desert combat boots, and he had them resoled before he went to ***** school he said. They were super light... Almost to a point where it isn't even fair but I'm not hating, I was excited to see that people were allowed to have advantages of gear like that. Nowadays I wear trail runners like Altra Lone Peaks and Brooks Cascadia. They have balistic rock plates and wider toe boxes. I wear Dirty Girl gaiters to prevent rocks and debris from infiltrating, and I wear toe socks. Whenever I have to cross water I put on my spikeless track shoes or I might wear a waterproof sock and microspikes for snow and glacier travel. My favorite boots are the SALEWA ALP TRAINER MID with the gore-tex surround. Best boot ever. I call it the God boot with an approach and climbing toe. Check them out.


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## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2017)

If you have not had to ruck for time under GI gear in GI uniform, tread lightly in this topic.


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## CDG (Jun 18, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> If you have not had to ruck for time under GI gear in GI uniform, tread lightly in this topic.



Yep.  Hiking and rucking are two different animals.


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## Peacemaker01 (Jun 18, 2017)

Pistol_Pete said:


> As far as "technique" goes, I have little to add other than I always packed, balanced adjusted, fit and wore my ruck as near to "perfect" as I could get it and that includes properly using the chest band, waist or hip band, and getting everything set and balanced as best as I could. Hell, I probably would have hooked up a head band "strap" (appropriately High Speed looking and in function of course) like some villager somewhere carrying "500 pounds" in a big straw basket with a rag around their forehead to the basket - if I had thought of it.
> 
> Other than that, yes you will end up "running", shuffling, jogging, walking with your ruck off and on for various distances if you are like most guys. That's the life of the Combat Arms Ground Pounder and yes - Special Operators must excel at Ground Pounding skills like bread and butter. Not everything is a glorious chopper ride in with an assault combat load, double tap the bad guy and one to the head, grab the intel and scoot. Much of it is routine training - over and over again. Tasks as mundane as picking up a monstrous ruck and pounding out the mileage with it. Or exiting an aircraft in flight with it and everything else including your weapons strapped to you - at night, and they put you off the DZ.
> 
> Become one with the giant wart. Learn to love the suck. IMO, 90% or better of everything in this game is mental. We just pick up our rucks and do it, cause that's what we do. Or used to do in the case of us Former Action Guys. It may sound flippant, but I think from an Infantryman to a Special Operations team, that's pretty much how much thought they put into it. Just pick the fucker up, groan softly in your misery if you must, and continue on with the many tasks ahead of you. You do it and make it happen because you are damn glad to be there and are doing things that few others have seen or done. There are not too many "strategies" other than maybe the tips given by some of the other walking hunch backs and broke-dicks around here that I can think of it other than perhaps using your gear as it was meant and to your best advantage.



This here is poetic and legit as can be.


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## dap (Jun 18, 2017)

Understood. Maybe I'll write such an experience in another post sometime. "There was this one time actually." Some funny memories I expect will garner a good laugh about my foolishness... I was just hoping to encourage/energize this person and offer some creative solutions that have helped me improve my slow and personally unsatisfactory rucking along the way.  My goal was not to offend just to share some of the things that have been advantageous in improving my own slow rucking. I'm here like everyone else to learn as much as possible and encourage each other along. I'll go run a six mile and swim for time out of respect. Should tire me out a bit. I'll close with a few photos from one of my favorite backpacking trips that required a lot of miles, a healthy weight of gear, and a lot of effort to get up through the sometimes thigh high snowfields. You can see the ridge line we traversed to summit the mountain and reach a fabled fire lookout in the North Cascades. Hopefully this will serve as inspiration and all apologies as the Summer Solstice nears. Hope you all can get outside and enjoy it. We are truly blessed to have such a diverse array of biomes in this country to challenge our more primal instincts and provide excellent training grounds. 


   
We didn't take this final one, but it was there. Less snow on top. Thank you sun!


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## CDG (Jun 18, 2017)

dapinitial said:


> I was just hoping to encourage/energize this person and offer some creative solutions that have helped me improve my slow and personally unsatisfactory rucking along the way.  My goal was not to offend just to share some of the things that have been advantageous in improving my own slow rucking.



It's not that anyone is offended, your experience is just largely irrelevant.  You make great points, but most military members do not have a lot of those options when being woken up at 2AM for a 12 mile ruck.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 18, 2017)

CDG said:


> It's not that anyone is offended, your experience is just largely irrelevant.  You make great points, but most military members do not have a lot of those options when being woken up at 2AM for a 12 mile ruck.



This. We also don't get to choose when to go, we also often do not get to choose our pack, our load, or sometimes the route. This is without talking about boot choices, which is relevant in hiking. Most hiking isn't at a set pace, and you can take a break whenever you want.


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## Grunt (Jun 18, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> This. We also don't get to choose when to go, we also often do not get to choose our pack, our load, or sometimes the route. This is without talking about boot choices, which is relevant in hiking. Most hiking isn't at a set pace, and you can take a break whenever you want.



Yep...the biggest takeaway from this post is simply -- choice. Many -- if not most -- of the times we simply didn't get one.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 18, 2017)

I like @dapinitial inputs...very good in my opinion....

Walking the Appalachian Trail in civy gear sucked just as much as any road march for time.
Its all about the weight.....good luck guys!!!!!


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## dap (Jun 18, 2017)

I definitely hear you all. You're all right and I am with you. When you're performing it as part of your military occupation you aren't getting choices. Your only choice is whether or not you prepared well enough to perform as required. I didn't know this person's whole situation and I was just saying, in general, for anyone who may be reading this thread for advice on rucking: to get used to moving with any amount of weight it's useful to fold it into their lifestyle and work on just being comfortable and having fun while putting in ample amounts of work before game day. It's like running in your Brooks support trainers 30 miles a week for 4-6 weeks and doing spring work in between and then throwing on those spikeless racing flats to blow a 3-4 mile run out of the water. 

You're absolutely right it would be a rude awakening for people to expect their service to be a walk on the beach like backpacking often is. It's tough work in less than desirable circumstances and when the training is done, there is an actual job to do. You might as well "get comfortable being uncomfortable" I was told once... after a ruck in issue gear where I hadn't prepared and my feet were basically hamburger meat and I was being splashed around in a pool, in a lightning storm no less, for a few hours. 

Before I close I just want to share this: What I've discovered in my own life is that if you keep pushing yourself when you've reached what feels is your breaking point and you aren't really broken, then that's just a threshold. Learn to listen to your body and muster the resolve and courage to push beyond that... Cuz even though it's going to suck for a little longer, you're making progression towards where you started the journey to be so just finish.  It's all you can do. Along the way you can actually make serious gains that strengthen you overall in that capacity where discomforts are then... oftentimes... yearned for... Like doing a negative set in weight lifting if you're into that sort of thing. 

Look for tougher terrain than you'll be graded upon. Look for longer distances... like a loop that goes 20-30 miles and camp over night if you can... I've seen guys in their pants and boots and ruck on stair steppers at the gym... but that doesn't seem as cool as spending a night in the wilderness alone or with your boys, or with your sweetheart, but I am sure it's effective.  Again, I was just speaking in broad generalities to anyone who may be reading this and looking to improve their rucking... Backpacking is just a fun and simple applications out there to weave a familiar type of physical exertion into the fabric of anyone's life. Get out there and hike your own trail if you're able to... and push yourself to go as fast as you safely can, as far as you can with as much elevation gain as you can. Make is difficult but have a place that you're trying to get to... Like a shelter, a lake, a natural monument, a landmark. Test your resolve in all conditions, and learn what works for you and expose yourself to the elements. You'll find yourself well-prepared when race day comes the more your push yourself. Id you can't do a 12 minute mile on flat land with a 45lb ruck... You won't get it outside either... but if you remove how fast you're doing it and just finish it and don't work about the time and nourish and let your body heal and rest... you're getting stronger... and after a few weeks your body will adapt to the constant battery because your body knows... I better get myself in check real fast because this ain't gonna be over any time soon. I'm here just like anyone else because this is something that I want to improve at. I'm not an expert but I've found something that worked for me and I'd like to share that... maybe I should start a thread called: _"Rucking, thanks for igniting a passion in the outdoors!"_


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## policemedic (Jun 19, 2017)

dapinitial said:


> . You might as well "get comfortable being uncomfortable" I was told once... after a ruck in issue gear where I hadn't prepared and my feet were basically hamburger meat and I was being splashed around in a pool, in a lightning storm no less, for a few hours.
> _"_



So, you were in a pool, during a lightning storm, for hours, being 'trained' by someone else?

I have to call bullshit.

The only other possibility is that you need to refine your ability to conduct a risk assessment.


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## AWP (Jun 19, 2017)

Welcome to the board. You're new here and full of energy, and we can all appreciate your enthusiasm. To be frank, you have some good info buried in a post that should probably be 3, 4, or maybe 5 sentences long.



dapinitial said:


> I'm not in the service but I'm pretty much ready to go on a 1200 mile thru hike of the Pacific Northwest Trail from Glacier National Park , MT until I plunge myself into the Pacific Ocean. I have all my tickets and permits and my Amtrak to East Glacier where I am planning to add an extra 110 miles to my ruck to the Chief Mountain Custom USA-Canada border to begin my trek from the official start of the PNT! I'm an ultra light backpacker and my baseweight in 14 pounds and with food and water and fuel I am sitting around 22-23 pounds with some luxury items (projector, iPad, and bluetooth speaker - sex appeal in the fire lookout baby, it's movie night).
> 
> No one cares. Seriously. "I do a lot of hiking, this is what works for me" or a similarly bland intro to this thread would work. This reads like some blowhard, know-it-all opinion we've seen dozens and dozens of times before. Ask yourself this: would you walk up to a complete stranger and drop that paragraph on them? If someone did that to you would wait for them to finish before laughing or walking off
> 
> ...



Slow down. We don't know you and you're coming across as if we know you and you know us. Maybe you interact with every stranger like this, but it tends to piss off strangers or start your relationship on the wrong foot. Your info is good, but your enthusiasm and presentation are killing you. Dial it back a bit until we get to know you.


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## dap (Jun 19, 2017)

I guess there is no hope to amend. I don't see an edit button.


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## dap (Jun 19, 2017)

policemedic said:


> So, you were in a pool, during a lightning storm, for hours, being 'trained' by someone else?
> 
> I have to call bullshit.
> 
> The only other possibility is that you need to refine your ability to conduct a risk assessment.



We weren't training for anything. We were just being evaluated. You're right though, that was a slight exaggeration and I am sure the danger did not exist as I expressed it. It was just raining and thunder towards the end of that long pool sesh and they let us out when the lightning began nearby but it was all something to laugh about since we were are pretty smoked and nobody was expecting to play in the pool so everyone was like like: "Water conf in a lightning storm!"


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 19, 2017)

MOD  HAT ON.


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## digrar (Jun 19, 2017)

22-23lb is essentially clean skin, 45lb is a very light pack, 100+lb, now you're working.


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## CDG (Jun 20, 2017)

digrar said:


> 22-23lb is essentially clean skin, 45lb is a very light pack, 100+lb, now you're working.



Yep.  22# is light for even a single raid loadout.  45# is about right for a one day pack. 75-100 is pretty normal for anything over 72 hours, depending on the mission, expected resupply, etc..  I might overpack some, but I always prefer to have extra batteries/antennas/etc that I don't use than to have to tell the team that their JTAC can't get comms because he wanted a lighter ruck.


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## Devildoc (Jun 20, 2017)

CDG said:


> Yep.  22# is light for even a single raid loadout.  45# is about right for a one day pack. 75-100 is pretty normal for anything over 72 hours, depending on the mission, expected resupply, etc..  I might overpack some, but I always prefer to have extra batteries/antennas/etc that I don't use than to have to tell the team that their JTAC can't get comms because he wanted a lighter ruck.



Your post made me recollect, not in a good way.  I was always humping extra batteries and comm stuff for the comms guys, as well as my medical kit....and ammo, and everything else.  Everyone thinks Doc is a fucking Sherpa.

After Blackhawk Down, my PS thought it would be a good idea for every Marine to carry his own bag of IVF and IV start kit.  No, prob says I.  But he wanted me to carry it all.  Hold on, Hoss....no can do, mi amigo.  Me, carry 20, 25 liters of fluid?  I told him to have each Marine carry his own.  But they already carry too much, he said.  Oy.

Unless I was carrying a raid load-out, my extended rucking gear was a 100 pounds, easy.


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## DocIllinois (Jun 20, 2017)

CDG said:


> Yep.  22# is light for even a single raid loadout.  45# is about right for a one day pack. 75-100 is pretty normal for anything over 72 hours, depending on the mission, expected resupply, etc.. * I might overpack some, but I always prefer to have extra batteries/antennas/etc that I don't use than to have to tell the team that their JTAC can't get comms because he wanted a lighter ruck.*



Agreed.

Ideally, everything packed into a ruck will be used on a mission with little that's extraneous, IMO.  Packing extra items for contingencies is a fine balance between preparedness/ comfort and taking on too much extra weight, which can create its own problems, especially if high heat or traversing restricted terrain are factors.

Personally, I never had an issue with taking contingency stuff; Privates never seemed to complain about humping the Os extra batteries, glow sticks, ponchos, etc.     And their un-arthritic knees and spines always need more conditioning.  


@Devildoc , docs are indestructible pack mules.  Everybody knows that.


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## CDG (Jun 20, 2017)

DocIllinois said:


> Ideally, everything packed into a ruck will be used on a mission with little that's extraneous, IMO.  Packing extra items for contingencies is a fine balance between preparedness/ comfort and taking on too much extra weight, which can create its own problems, especially if high heat or traversing restricted terrain are factors.



Absolutely agree.  Packing my ruck is its own METT-TC process every time.


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## x SF med (Jun 20, 2017)

DocIllinois said:


> docs are indestructible pack mules. Everybody knows that.



Until such time as their knees explode...


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## Gunz (Jun 20, 2017)

I think we carried 90-100 lbs of gear, ammo, weapons, Claymores, C4, pop flares, strobes, LAAWs, kabars, canteens, extra MG ammo, frags and smokes plus flak vest... goddam I can still almost feel the grooves in my shoulders from equipment straps. We used to have to help each other up after a take-five. You paratroopers know that feeling...


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