# Apple CEO resists order to unlock iPhone of San Bernardino killers



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 17, 2016)

_WASHINGTON — Apple Inc. CEO Tim Cook says his company will fight a federal magistrate's order to hack its users in connection with the investigation of the San Bernardino shootings, asserting that would undermine encryption by creating a backdoor that could potentially be used on other future devices._

Apple to fight order to help FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

What do you guys think about this?  Here are my thoughts:

1)  It pains me to learn that FBI/NIS do not have the ability to hack an f'ing iPhone

2)  While admittedly an Apple user for all my electronic toys, I've always found Tim Cook to be a pompous douche-nozzle in any interview I've ever seen him in.  His most recent w/60 Minutes being the most up-to-date evidence.

3)  Cook's point seems to be, 'we'd have to create a program to hack that particular phone, and then once that happens, the cat is out, and anyone will be able to hack an iPhone if they find one in the street'.  I don't think it will be quite that easy, but Apple has always maintained that they do not currently have the ability to unlock a locked phone and password protected phone.

 In the end I think Apple should have to comply, and I await those of you who will come in and give me the 'taking away our freedoms and privacy' argument.  Pandora's box has long been opened on this topic - 

Personal opinion - 
Referencing my first point above, how the F can we not have the ability to do this without Apple's assistance?  Worse, I am forced to wonder if given the opportunity, China could get it done.


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## AKkeith (Feb 17, 2016)

I don't think Apple should be forced to unlock one of its products. It's not their responsibility to do so. They are suppose to make great and secure products. If the government wants it open, they should open it.
I agree that it's pretty sad the FBI can't get an IPhone open themselves.


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## Isiah6:8 (Feb 17, 2016)

What if the phone has already been hacked and the data recovered, and they are putting this out there as misinformation.  Cheap attempt to make those they wish to believe iphones are the most secure phones in the world and flock to them in security <--- Data then becomes central to end users phone and amount of data on said phones could be size-able.  Nice publicity for Apple as the common joe thinks this is a great investment for a few hundred bucks and big bad gov cant see anything they do on the phone.  Seems like a cheap win win if the first line is accurate.


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## AWP (Feb 17, 2016)

While I agree with Apple's stance, trusting a gazillion dollar corporation built upon slave labor in China to do the right thing is lunacy. Telecom companies denied their involvement with the FBI's and later the NSA's "data collection" so I'm going to believe Tim Cook? Cisco and Dell worked with the USG to build back doors into their products, but Apple's incorruptible? I'm too cynical to believe in a company like Apple doing the right thing.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 17, 2016)

Isiah6:8 said:


> What if the phone has already been hacked and the data recovered, and they are putting this out there as misinformation.  Cheap attempt to make those they wish to believe iphones are the most secure phones in the world and flock to them in security <--- Data then becomes central to end users phone and amount of data on said phones could be size-able.  Nice publicity for Apple as the common joe thinks this is a great investment for a few hundred bucks and big bad gov cant see anything they do on the phone.  Seems like a cheap win win if the first line is accurate.


It would be nice if this were true, but I am becoming way too jaded to believe we are capable of this much creativity anymore.


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## Rapid (Feb 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> While I agree with Apple's stance, trusting a gazillion dollar corporation built upon slave labor in China to do the right thing is lunacy. Telecom companies denied their involvement with the FBI's and later the NSA's "data collection" so I'm going to believe Tim Cook? Cisco and Dell worked with the USG to build back doors into their products, but Apple's incorruptible? I'm too cynical to believe in a company like Apple doing the right thing.



What better way to lull terrorists into a false sense of security than an international news story about how Apple is standing up to the FBI... even when it's a clear cut case of terrorism?


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## Brill (Feb 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> While I agree with Apple's stance, trusting a gazillion dollar corporation built upon slave labor in China to do the right thing is lunacy. Telecom companies denied their involvement with the FBI's and later the NSA's "data collection" so I'm going to believe Tim Cook? Cisco and Dell worked with the USG to build back doors into their products, but Apple's incorruptible? I'm too cynical to believe in a company like Apple doing the right thing.



So the gub'ment take take your land (imminent domain) but not your data?


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## Red Flag 1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I wonder if DHS would have a little more horse power than the FBI, in this matter?


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## Florida173 (Feb 17, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I wonder if DHS would have a little more horse power than the FBI, in this matter?



As in HSI? not likely. Besides, the FBI is already a member of the Intelligence Community and could leverage the NSA if needed.


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## Brill (Feb 17, 2016)

Chinese could knock it out in 5 minutes...and they only charge .05 an hour.

Looks like I'm switching back to Apple.

User security, privacy issues draw sharp contrast between Apple iOS, Google Android in FBI encryption case


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## TLDR20 (Feb 17, 2016)

The NSA could unlock it in seconds. They just can't.


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## Salt USMC (Feb 17, 2016)

Have they tried '0000'?


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## Blizzard (Feb 17, 2016)

There's probably a Russian kid and a few Chinese kids that could help them out if they need.  Maybe the FBI should give one of them a call.


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## BloodStripe (Feb 18, 2016)

The Government has been caught in the past buying back doors. The FBI may not have a tool to gain access, but I am easily betting on the fact that another agency doesn't already have this capability. I would not be shocked if during the development phases of OS the Government approached Apple (or vice versa) and said here is what we will pay you for a back door channel in.


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## DA SWO (Feb 18, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> The NSA could unlock it in seconds. They just can't.


Which law prevents them?


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## TLDR20 (Feb 18, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Which law prevents them?



I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to conduct activities against American Citizens. I'm not sure though. I know that when I did stuff with the I had to sign waiver to be collected on. That was just for training, so idk.

Just like if you are doing any opposition stuff with the some of the other agencies you have to consent to their surveillance, as that is technically done without a warrant. Again I don't know what the law says.


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## DA SWO (Feb 18, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to conduct activities against American Citizens. I'm not sure though. I know that when I did stuff with the I had to sign waiver to be collected on. That was just for training, so idk.
> 
> Just like if you are doing any opposition stuff with the some of the other agencies you have to consent to their surveillance, as that is technically done without a warrant. Again I don't know what the law says.


I just assumed they could go to the FISA (?) court and get a warrent/authorization allowing any agency to assist.
Guess I'll have to ping the resident JAG when I get back next month.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 18, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Have they tried '0000'?



F'ing OUTSTANDING post!


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 18, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> The NSA could unlock it in seconds. They just can't.



Man do I want you to be right on this.  It is inconceivable to me that at least one of the 'alphabet soup' groups out there cannot access these stupid phones with little to no effort.


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## TheSiatonist (Feb 19, 2016)

Isiah6:8 said:


> What if the phone has already been hacked and the data recovered, and they are putting this out there as misinformation.  Cheap attempt to make those they wish to believe iphones are the most secure phones in the world and flock to them in security <--- Data then becomes central to end users phone and amount of data on said phones could be size-able.  Nice publicity for Apple as the common joe thinks this is a great investment for a few hundred bucks and big bad gov cant see anything they do on the phone.  Seems like a cheap win win if the first line is accurate.


OK. So if this were true, you need to edit it and get it out of the internet now before Abu Hamza finds it on a Google search.  LOL!


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## racing_kitty (Feb 19, 2016)

To me, this is rather difficult.  They are Muslim, and I hate Muslims like I hate skin cancer, so I can't exaggerate how happy I am to see that they were shot dead like the fucking pigs they are in the middle of the highway.

That being said, there is the whole privacy issue that is involved.  If this was a work phone, then I could understand if their employer demanded that they have access to the phone's password, because it's theirs; never mind it's so that the FBI/CIA/Alphabet Soup can have a look, it's a work phone and it's within the employer's rights to say "yay" or "nay."  If the proper agencies had the right subpoenas to facilitate hacking the phone, then hell yes run Apple over the coals with regards to hacking into that work phone.  

However, if the employer that owned the phone said "no," then I'd see the agency(ies) involved seeking a subpoena to retrieve the information.  After all, it's not self-incrimination if you're fucking dead.  

Strictly from the privacy aspect, I applaud Apple's stance wholeheartedly.  That being said, the suspects are dead, so there's no Fifth Amendment violation in play here that I know of, in addition to the fact that the employers have every right to access the phone that their employEE had access to (even if/especially if they are cooperating with the Feds).  Top that off with the fact that the deceased were OBVIOUSLY guilty, getting access to the phone should only be a formality.  However, I do not believe that the government wouldn't abuse that kind of access and power once Apple gave it to them, even if it was for the greater good this one time.


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## Dame (Feb 19, 2016)

I'ma go with, "Criminal Investigation" for $1000.
Privacy is gone now. Non-issue. They are not "innocent" Americans minding their own bees wax.


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## DA SWO (Feb 19, 2016)

My resident FISA Attorney says it's a non-issue.
She thinks Apple is playing this up to ease Customer Base fears, and San Bernardino (?) County (as the owners of the phone) could ask Apple to unlock the phone, but they don't want to set precedent. 
Likewise Apple could quietly do it, but is afraid their customer base would be pissed.
FISA Court could order it, and Apple or a government agency could make it happen, but the feds don't want to expose FISA procedures.
Theater for the unwashed masses is her belief.

Making a path in can't be that difficult, you could run through the front door and get the phone to work.


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## pardus (Feb 19, 2016)

*Why Is the FBI Using a 227-Year-Old Law Against Apple?*

*How the All Writs Act of 1789 could force Apple to undo its encryption. *

*



*


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## DA SWO (Feb 19, 2016)

pardus said:


> *Why Is the FBI Using a 227-Year-Old Law Against Apple?*
> 
> *How the All Writs Act of 1789 could force Apple to undo its encryption. *
> 
> ...


Because hey can.


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## Centermass (Feb 19, 2016)

> John McAfee has the answer, everybody. He has offered to decrypt the iPhone that the FBI wants Apple’s help with, for free, so Apple doesn’t have to.



John McAfee to the rescue: He's offering to decrypt the iPhone so Apple doesn't have to


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## AWP (Feb 20, 2016)




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## Kraut783 (Feb 20, 2016)

Forget the Terrorism angle on this case......

No FISA needed in this case, this is not an intel case.....this started as a criminal case and criminal search warrants for the phone is what the issue is.  Apple does not want to comply with a legal search warrant...they need to be spanked. We can say, who cares the perps are dead, but we still need to see if there are any other accomplices....just like we would in any serious offense...murder, bank robbery...etc.

If Apple does not comply and gets away with it....this will cause huge ripples...not just with the feds, with every State and Local law enforcement.  Think about what evidence is recovered from search warrants....evidence in rapes, child abductions, kidnappings, murder...etc.

"Hey, sorry your (insert family member here) was (insert crime here), but we are unable to obtain records from (insert company) to help us identify or locate the suspect."  

I know technology is changing....but we still need to have companies comply with court orders (SW, Subpoenas)...they know that, that's why companies have legal compliance sections in their companies.  I don't want apple to win this argument...the ramifications will be too high.


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## AWP (Feb 20, 2016)

This has become nothing more than kabuki theater between Apple, the Feds, and the County.


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 21, 2016)

Makes one wish that Apple headquarters would have every sewage main rupture, in conjunction with an electrical malfunction and simultaneous earthquake. Or sinkhole, I'm not picky.


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## medicchick (Mar 29, 2016)

Bwahahahaha

Unlocked iPhone Worthless After F.B.I. Spills Glass of Water on It - The New Yorker






























Yes, I know the source but it was too funny to pass up.


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## Brill (Mar 29, 2016)

@Marauder06 , you're up!


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## Kraut783 (Mar 29, 2016)

FBI-Apple case: Investigators break into dead San Bernardino gunman's iPhone


FBI-Apple case: Investigators break into dead San Bernardino gunman's iPhone - BBC News

I do hope that Apple had nothing to do with the unlocking....I would love to see Apple ask them how the broke into it...."go pound sand Apple"


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## Marauder06 (Mar 29, 2016)

medicchick said:


> Bwahahahaha
> 
> Unlocked iPhone Worthless After F.B.I. Spills Glass of Water on It - The New Yorker
> 
> ...



Damn I wish I would have thought of that one!


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## Centermass (Mar 29, 2016)

Kraut783 said:


> I do hope that Apple had nothing to do with the unlocking....I would love to see Apple ask them how the broke into it...."go pound sand Apple"





> At the time, *Apple said it* did not know how to gain access, and said it* hoped that the government would share with them any vulnerabilities of the iPhone that might come to light*.



My guess is now that they (FBI Forensics) have the means to do so, that ain't likely to happen anytime soon. Oh well, cry me a river.


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## DA SWO (Mar 30, 2016)

Centermass said:


> My guess is now that they (FBI Forensics) have the means to do so, that ain't likely to happen anytime soon. Oh well, cry me a river.


I'd guess Apple has hired some Chinese teenagers (thank you H1B Visa Program) to hack the FBI so they can better secure their phones.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 31, 2016)

My initial reaction to this is, "BWAHAHA!!!"

Apple considers legal action against FBI over iPhone hacking


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## Grunt (Mar 31, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> My initial reaction to this is, "BWAHAHA!!!"
> 
> Apple considers legal action against FBI over iPhone hacking



I find that to be comical at best. I know that I wouldn't tell them. After all, it goes both ways. I agreed and supported Apple, but if you get beat at your own game...don't cry foul when you lose.


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## Red Flag 1 (Mar 31, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> My initial reaction to this is, "BWAHAHA!!!"
> 
> Apple considers legal action against FBI over iPhone hacking



Yup, I was just grinning over the whole thing.


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## AWP (Apr 7, 2016)

Awesome... :wall:

FBI purchased 'tool' to unlock San Bernardino shooter's iPhone



> COLUMBUS, Ohio, April 7 (UPI) -- FBI Director James Comey said the agency purchased "a tool" from a private party to access data on the iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino, Calif., shooters.
> 
> "I can imagine a world, maybe, where a local police department, in a case they can't otherwise solve, can send us a device, with the understanding that we're never going to testify, we're never going to tell you how we opened it, so you're never going to be able to use what's on the phone as evidence, but it might be a lead to something that would be useful," he said.


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## Frank S. (Apr 7, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Awesome... :wall:
> 
> FBI purchased 'tool' to unlock San Bernardino shooter's iPhone



And that's how the bough breaks...


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## Gunz (Apr 7, 2016)

Picture of tool purchased by FBI from private citizen to open terrorist iPhone


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## DA SWO (Apr 7, 2016)

Apple has to be crapping bricks about now.

LOL.


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