# Immigration



## dirtmover (Jan 11, 2014)

The other day I was watching Border Wars and there was a situation where a woman was brought over as a very young child, around 4 years old.  She had lived in the US all her life .  She had to go back to Mexico to take care of her family still there and got stuck in Mexico, tried to sneak back and got caught. 

I am a little torn on this.  Yes she came over illegally but its not like she had a choice in the matter being so young.  She also was wrong to leave the US with out getting proper documentation before leaving the country.  I personally believe that in situations like this their should be an expedited way for them to get temporary/permanent citizenship provided that they can one prove that they were brought over here when they were young and had no choice but to go with the family and two they can also prove that they have been a productive member of our society. 

What are your thoughts?


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## BeardedConservative (Jan 11, 2014)

I think I would have to agree with you, especially in cases like this. However, and I am asking this honestly wouldn't it be just as bad that the family brought her over (again she had no say) but then the family is deported after she had been here 20 yes?  I think that would also be bad, I agree there should have been an easier way to get documentation and she failed to do so for herself. But you also have the problem of many illegals bringing children over illegally, it's a rough issue I don't see being solved soon.


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## dirtmover (Jan 11, 2014)

The adults at the time made the choice to hop the border illegally so they made their beds now they can lay in it.  I have no sympathy for those individuals who risk the child's life to make the trek. If the child is still young then they get deported with the rest of the family.


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## BeardedConservative (Jan 11, 2014)

I would say we are definitely in agreement there, I also am less opposed to it if they become a contributing part of society. A friend of mine's father came from Mexico illegally, however his father joined the military served his time and still to this day is very hardworking. That I don't mind at all.


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## Dame (Jan 11, 2014)

My grandfather was brought to the U.S. by his uncle when he was about 3 or 4 along with his baby sister. His mother had died in Mexico and the rest of the family was in the U.S.  This was about 100 years ago when people went back and forth without much issue. As soon as he was aware of his situation and old enough to do something about it, he did. He became a citizen and learned the language. 

He and Grandma had six children and only English was allowed in the house. Today those kids hold PhDs and top management positions in oil and telecom companies. Would it have been nice if there was an easy way to do it? Yes. Did he want it badly enough to do it anyway? Hell yes.


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## dirtmover (Jan 11, 2014)

Dame I wish I could like and agree with your statement.


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## BeardedConservative (Jan 11, 2014)

dirtmover said:


> Dame I wish I could like and agree with your statement.


I was thinking the same thing, that to me is what makes it all worth it. Thanks for sharing Dame.


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## RustyShackleford (Jan 12, 2014)

I was TDY in the USVI about eight years ago and we had a dude that got popped on a boat that was used to smuggle folks into the U.S.  This guy spoke perfect English with a heavy NYC accent. Turned out his mom came to the U.S. with him when he was 1 or 2 and he grew up in NYC, got popped by the police around the age of 20 and then was deported.  As soon as he hit the ground in S. America, he hitched a ride to get back home and the USCG popped the boat he was on.


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## Brill (Jan 12, 2014)

dirtmover said:


> The other day I was watching Border Wars and there was a situation where a woman was brought over as a very young child, around 4 years old.  *She had lived in the US all her life .*  She _*had to*_ go back to Mexico to take care of her family still there and got stuck in Mexico, tried to sneak back and got caught.
> 
> I am a little torn on this.  Yes she came over illegally but its not like she had a choice in the matter being so young.  *She also was wrong to leave the US with out getting proper documentation before leaving the country.*  I personally believe that in situations like this their should be an expedited way for them to get temporary/permanent citizenship provided that they can one prove that they were brought over here when they were young and had no choice but to go with the family and two they can also prove that they have been a productive member of our society.
> 
> What are your thoughts?



"Had to go back" as in life, limb, or eyesight?  Don't know the situation but I really doubt it.  We all make choices.

So she could have completed the immigration process legally.  If someone wants to live here AND reap the benefits of being a citizen (work, security, prospects for better life, education, etc.) then "you gotta pay to play".  How many illegals (not talking about work permits or visas...they are here LEGALLY) serve their duty on a jury?  in the military? or any other public service?

Similar to the recent illegal who passed the bar in California and was permitted to practice.  Clearly he is a smart guy so why not go back to Mexico and practice law there?  Because QOL here is better.


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## Brill (Jan 12, 2014)

RustyShackleford said:


> I was TDY in the USVI...


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## 0699 (Jan 12, 2014)

dirtmover said:


> The other day I was watching Border Wars and there was a situation where a woman was brought over as a very young child, around 4 years old.  She had lived in the US all her life .  She had to go back to Mexico to take care of her family still there and got stuck in Mexico, tried to sneak back and got caught.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


 
The law is the law.  It sucks for her, but if we make all of our immigration (and legal) decisions based on pity or sympathy, you maight as well open the gates.

Everyone has a sad story.  Most of them are BS.


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## LibraryLady (Jan 12, 2014)

These folk talk to each other.  They know the laws, but they choose to ignore them.  Not much sympathy here.

LL


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## Marine0311 (Jan 12, 2014)

Either deport them all or create (change) the system with a path to citizenship.  That is a black or white view.  However I do agree with what has been stated above; if you contribute you can stay BUT you still must get your papers.  If you want to stay you're going to pay.

My view begins to shift then. If you're a scumbag you get deported.  If you contribute you agree to conditions such as but not limited to getting your papers, paying back taxes (or a fine) and agreeing to obey the laws. 

The federal government is part of the problem by allowing the situation to get to this level. Plus the other factors such as companies employing illegals, states such as CA and or NY wanting to give illegals DLs and so on.


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## pardus (Jan 13, 2014)

After what I went through to become a legal citizen of the USA, I have very little sympathy for those that break the law to come here, and then demand rights that aren't theirs to have.
As @Marine0311 stated, The Federal and also to a lessor degree, state governments are responsible as well, for their failed immigration policies and policies regarding illegal immigrants. 

It's a complicated issue for sure but there is a black and white component. Illegal immigration is a CRIME.


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## medicchick (Jan 13, 2014)

Marine0311 said:


> *snip* states such as CA and or NY wanting to give illegals DLs and so on.



Beginning the first of the year Nevada started that too.  The result, record numbers of failure because they can't past the written test.


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## pardus (Jan 13, 2014)

medicchick said:


> Beginning the first of the year Nevada started that too.  The result, record numbers of failure because they can't past the written test.



You watch, they'll sue because the test isn't in Spanish and/or because the test is racist.


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## policemedic (Jan 13, 2014)

I immigrated from Canada legally, and later legally sponsored my mother and step-father.  I have very little time for those who are unwilling to obey the law.


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## 0699 (Jan 13, 2014)

Marine0311 said:


> ... states such as CA and or NY wanting to give illegals DLs and so on.


 
Maryland too. 

With the new governor, I doubt Virginia is far behind.



pardus said:


> *After what I went through to become a legal citizen of the USA*, I have very little sympathy for those that break the law to come here, and then demand rights that aren't theirs to have.
> As @Marine0311 stated, The Federal and also to a lessor degree, state governments are responsible as well, for their failed immigration policies and policies regarding illegal immigrants.
> 
> It's a complicated issue for sure but there is a black and white component. Illegal immigration is a CRIME.


 
You are the kind of person we want emigrating to America.



pardus said:


> You watch, they'll sue because the test isn't in Spanish and/or because the test is racist.


 
IIRC, California allows people to take the test in Spanish and a bunch of other languages.  Doesn't make sense to me, as the road signs aren't in Spanish/Arabic/Chinese...


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## DA SWO (Jan 13, 2014)

Those illegals need a SSN to work.  That means stealing someones identity.
They then claim an ungodly number of dependents so no income taxes are taken.
The real SSN holder gets hit at tax time and has to prove he/she isn't the person with the second job.  Social Security and the IRS know (pretty quickly) when the fraud hits, but do nothing.

I'd sell all the SSN's belonging to our Congressmen/women so they could experience the fun of a tax audit.


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## Scotth (Jan 13, 2014)

I have a lot of sympathy for the children brought into the country illegally.  I support immigration reform because it is the only viable solution not because it's the right thing to do.

As for the girl originally mention.  We all have to make choices in life and live with those consequences.


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## dirtmover (Jan 13, 2014)

lindy said:


> "Had to go back" as in life, limb, or eyesight?  Don't know the situation but I really doubt it.  We all make choices.
> 
> So she could have completed the immigration process legally.  If someone wants to live here AND reap the benefits of being a citizen (work, security, prospects for better life, education, etc.) then "you gotta pay to play".  How many illegals (not talking about work permits or visas...they are here LEGALLY) serve their duty on a jury?  in the military? or any other public service?
> 
> Similar to the recent illegal who passed the bar in California and was permitted to practice.  Clearly he is a smart guy so why not go back to Mexico and practice law there?  Because QOL here is better.


 
I take what I see on TV with a grain...hell a shaker full salt, all I know was that when she was interviewed by the BP agent that's what she said.  The situation just got me thinking.  I have never gone through the Immigration process my self, the only thing that I have been close to dealing with is have a soldier talk to me about how frustrating it was to get his wife her permanent residency which is why his wife stayed in the states instead of going back to Honduras while we are on deployment.  I agree with you whole heartedly Lindy. 

Hey Pardus, I have read a couple of threads of yours that mentioned the process that you had to go through, could you please give a summary of what you had to go through? 

If immigration hasn't been fixed by the time I run for presidency that will be part of my platform.....don't worry I will make Shadowspear a "government consulting agency":-" and you will all be handsomely rewarded....provided I don't get banned first. LOL


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## dirtmover (Jan 13, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Those illegals need a SSN to work.  That means stealing someones identity.
> They then claim an ungodly number of dependents so no income taxes are taken.
> The real SSN holder gets hit at tax time and has to prove he/she isn't the person with the second job.  Social Security and the IRS know (pretty quickly) when the fraud hits, but do nothing.
> 
> I'd sell all the SSN's belonging to our Congressmen/women so they could experience the fun of a tax audit.


 
They don't always need a SSN, most of the people I know working in the fields up north were paid in cash.


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## dirtmover (Jan 13, 2014)

0699 said:


> The law is the law.  It sucks for her, but if we make all of our immigration (and legal) decisions based on pity or sympathy, you maight as well open the gates.
> 
> Everyone has a sad story.  Most of them are BS.


 
Please don't mistaken my empathy for sympathy.  Yes we all understand the law is the law and have seen what happens when you make laws based on gut reactions i.e. after Sandy Hook.


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## Brill (Jan 13, 2014)

0699 said:


> Maryland too.
> 
> With the new governor, I doubt Virginia is far behind.
> 
> ...



In state college tuition too! Go figure!


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## Totentanz (Jan 13, 2014)

pardus said:


> After what I went through to become a legal citizen of the USA, I have very little sympathy for those that break the law to come here, and then demand rights that aren't theirs to have.
> As @Marine0311 stated, The Federal and also to a lessor degree, state governments are responsible as well, for their failed immigration policies and policies regarding illegal immigrants.
> 
> It's a complicated issue for sure but there is a black and white component. Illegal immigration is a CRIME.



I can't agree with this enough.  The wife and I more or less went through the express lane (K-1 visa with almost zero speedbumps, lost paperwork or anything) to her green card, and it was still was a long, expensive process.  There are many (like @pardus) who have been through far more bureaucratic asspain that we have.

I have no sympathy for anyone who wants to skip the line because they think they're fucking special, especially when a) their first action in this country was to knowingly commit a felony, and b) that "special" status is ONLY derived from that felony.

There are some facets of immigration that can be reformed, and a temporary stay visa is one.  But the glaring issue that needs to be addressed before any of that is the complete lack of enforcement of current laws, which right now might as well be a joke to everyone except those who are trying to do this the right way.


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## ZmanTX (Jan 13, 2014)

Thought this was pretty cool 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/1...by-gang-rides-bicycle-to-raise-awareness-for/

I mean the process isn't impossible I just wish it was a little bit more efficient for people to come over.

ZM


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 13, 2014)

I think the problem is not necessarily the laws of immigration, bit more so citizen vs non-citizen resident. If only "citizens" could receive benefits, medicade, food, etc, it would really become a non-issue. Non-citizen resident should pay taxes, should contribute to all social programs, but exempt from use until citizenship is established.

If you take the "illegal" out of going and getting your passport stamped and just refuse to provide any services, charge them taxes and force them to play the suck game, they will wither become a citizen or go home and maybe visit from time to time


Illegal acts, such as ID theft, or the many other common crimes caused by many illegals and non-citizens, should be prosecuted, jailed and fined just like everyone else. The one stickler being they loose ability to become a citizen in the future for X many years, I think 5 yrs for a misdemeanor and 20 yrs for a felony (or permanent ban for a felony).

The real problem is proper control over the benefits and social programs. 

My$.02


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## pardus (Jan 13, 2014)

@JAB that would mean treating legal immigrants who are struggling to do the right thing, just the same as illegals. Pretty fucked up.


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## Totentanz (Jan 13, 2014)

JAB said:


> I think the problem is not necessarily the laws of immigration, bit more so citizen vs non-citizen resident. If only "citizens" could receive benefits, medicade, food, etc, it would really become a non-issue. Non-citizen resident should pay taxes, should contribute to all social programs, but exempt from use until citizenship is established.
> 
> If you take the "illegal" out of going and getting your passport stamped and just refuse to provide any services, charge them taxes and force them to play the suck game, they will wither become a citizen or go home and maybe visit from time to time
> 
> ...



I don't know about other visa types, but I (the sponsor) had to sign an I-134 and an I-864.  In short, if the sponsored individual (my wife) becomes a public charge, I can be held financially liable.  For sponsored visa holders, enforcement of these documents should make the vast majority of what you've suggested moot.

The rest is (not trying to bring another hot topic in to the thread, but...) similar to gun control - the vast majority of what you're suggesting would only impact those who are keeping their noses clean.  The illegal ones are going to continue to gain state sponsored benefits in spite of their illegal status, while those patiently waiting in line are going to abide by the sponsorship affidavits.  As @pardus said, the only people you're hurting are the ones already doing the right thing.


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## x SF med (Jan 14, 2014)

0699 said:


> ...
> You are the kind of person we want emigrating to America.
> ...



You really are NOT talking about pardus, are you?   You have met him, right?:wall:


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## x SF med (Jan 14, 2014)

love the hate pardus...  I notice your hate doesn't stop you when I have beer...:-"


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## pardus (Jan 14, 2014)

x SF med said:


> love the hate pardus...  I notice your hate doesn't stop you when I have beer...:-"




Well duh! lol


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 14, 2014)

pardus said:


> @JAB that would mean treating legal immigrants who are struggling to do the right thing, just the same as illegals. Pretty fucked up.



Sort of, I think citizenship should mean something. As in a clear defined line in what equates "benefit" of citizenship and non-citizens.

Some of the big complaints on immigration (legal and illegal) is the use of social benefit programs, the others are jobs and of course taxes.

I think if you simplify it and say no non-citizen can receive any governmental or social program benefit, and than simplified the legal process for coming here and being legal, coupled with the idea of the benefit of coming here only starts when you do become a citizen, would change things for the better.

Personally, I think on the other end, people who serve in the military, spouses of citizens and individuals who possess education or knowledge that will help further our nation, should get a speedway through becoming citizens. In other words if you are married in, or providing a service for the betterment, it should be as painless and short as possible.

The others who are coming here to escape their own country and simply better themselves, need to prove over time their worth. 

I somewhat feel the same with all the left-wing people moving into Texas who are taking jobs, but yet voting in left-wing political bullshit. It just shouldn't be that easy...

My $.02


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## Totentanz (Jan 14, 2014)

@JAB That's actually a fairly easily controlled thing usually by way of what visas we grant to whom, and the already-established application requirements (which can be modified as needed).  The number of work and study visas can be changed with relative ease (when compared to the legislative nightmare that is immigration reform).

Quick question (asked mostly because I don't know): how many LEGAL immigrants are using social benefits, and to what dollar amount?  And how does it stack up per capita vs. citizens?

The reason I ask is that the requirements to obtain most visas are strict and many include proof of income and assets to support oneself (or in many cases, be supported by a sponsor) after immigration.  That leaves me curious as to who is legally entering (and on what visa) and immediately turning around to apply for benefits.

FWIW, if you insist on setting  bar for it, LPR (lawful permanent resident, see also: green card) status is IMO a more appropriate level.  Those who have gone that far in the process are - for the most part - simply waiting to apply for citizenship, or have applied and are awaiting a response.  They've been in line for months - if not years - and spent thousands of dollars and hours to get there.  They have the vast majority of the same rights as citizens (exceptions being voting, jury service, and certain public offices).  JM2C.

Step one is disincentivizing illegal immigration in the first place... I think we see eye to eye on that one, and I think it would solve over 90% of the problems associated with immigration in general.  Once that's done, we can start talking about how to streamline temporary work visas, visas for those two come here to contribute, etc.  Unfortunately, that's also the hardest step when legislators and a significant number of business owners (and by extension, American consumers) are enjoying the fruits of illegal labor...


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## pardus (Jan 14, 2014)

JAB said:


> Sort of, I think citizenship should mean something. As in a clear defined line in what equates "benefit" of citizenship and non-citizens.
> 
> You don't seem to take into account that immigrants have given up their lives and family to come here and become citizens. It's a huge deal and all immigrants think it's extremely meaningful.  More so than a significant % of the US born citizens.
> 
> ...


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## policemedic (Jan 14, 2014)

I can think of one benefit program that is used by illegal aliens, particularly in the Republic of Texas.  I'm referring to exploiting EMTALA and other unfunded federal healthcare mandates.


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## pardus (Jan 15, 2014)

policemedic said:


> I can think of one benefit program that is used by illegal aliens, particularly in the Republic of Texas.  I'm referring to exploiting EMTALA and other unfunded federal healthcare mandates.



I and JAB are talking about LEGAL immigrants. Big difference.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 15, 2014)

@pardus

I guess you and I see it differently. If I decide to go to Mexico for a medical treatment or say cheaper cost of living, I am expected to pay out of pocket for those things. Here in the US, you can receive emergency medical care, food entitlement programs and educational benefits, regardless if you are legal or illegal (which IMHO shouldn’t matter) and I think that should not be the case. I think someone should have to pay for those benefits and not be able to run up a bill and not pay and or leave the country.

Now if someone is legally here, who is working, paying taxes, and being a productive member of whichever community they are living in, they should IMHO become a citizen before being allowed to utilize those benefits. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they should be able to go to schools, or get medical care, etc. It means they should pay out of pocket for it, the same way I would have to if I was in Mexico. Medical insurance and student loans can be made available for legal residents, but again it needs to be made so in a way where people who are here, who are not citizens, do not take advantage of programs that are intended to benefit the general citizenship, without paying/repaying those costs.

I don’t think I am shitting on anyone by stating that someone who is not a citizen of the USA does not deserve the same benefits of someone who is a citizen. I don’t really care what they gave up to come here; I don’t care how awesome they may be in whatever area of social measurement. The fact is that the US gov has a duty bound obligation to take care of it citizenry and has no obligation to non-citizens


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## policemedic (Jan 15, 2014)

pardus said:


> I and JAB are talking about LEGAL immigrants. Big difference.



That does make a difference. I took @JAB 'a post to mean both legal and illegal immigrants.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 15, 2014)

Totentanz said:


> @JAB That's actually a fairly easily controlled thing usually by way of what visas we grant to whom, and the already-established application requirements (which can be modified as needed).  The number of work and study visas can be changed with relative ease (when compared to the legislative nightmare that is immigration reform).
> 
> Quick question (asked mostly because I don't know): how many LEGAL immigrants are using social benefits, and to what dollar amount?  And how does it stack up per capita vs. citizens?
> 
> ...


 
The big issue is they need to stop making such a big stink about “illegal” and allow people to simply get a damn stamp at the border. If they are not wanted, not on some sort of black list, let them through to do their business. If they happen to be a little bit late on getting their next X number of days stamp, charge them a simple fine and give them the stupid stamp. It’s really not that hard; most countries do this shit all day every day.
Growing up in South Texas, going to Mexico when I felt like it, and having many friends who were living/working back and forth between USA/MEX, I think the whole thing has turned into a bag of shit. Nobody gave a shit about a passport/visa back then, show your ID card and pay your crossing tax, pay your tax on goods and pay your way, etc. It was very damn simple 15 years ago, and the issue of “illegals” was hardly talked about outside of when people got busted doing the wrong thing.
Now I have to have a passport to go to Mexico, now I have to be searched going in, coming out, now I have to make sure someone has a visa to be here to work, its all really stupid.
Cut the incentives and free shit out, and go back to simple.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 15, 2014)

policemedic said:


> That does make a difference. I took @JAB 'a post to mean both legal and illegal immigrants.


 
Yeah I was talking about legal and illegal, I think pardus is focused on the idea that someone here legal should get a reward for doing it right. I really don’t see it as legal vs illegal; I see it as beneficiary vs non- beneficiary, and I think the line in the sand should be with citizenship.

I still think the legal (right way) process should be fixed, but I just think it all becomes a non-issues when you force people to pay their way, meet the standards or don’t, etc. The system should not be focused on making it stupid hard and overly complicated to be here as a resident, visitor, or in the process of becoming a citizen.

I would go a step even farther and say that most of the social programs in this country shouldn’t even exist…But that’s a whole other topic.


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## pardus (Jan 15, 2014)

JAB said:


> @pardus
> 
> I guess you and I see it differently. If I decide to go to Mexico for a medical treatment or say cheaper cost of living, I am expected to pay out of pocket for those things. Here in the US, you can receive emergency medical care, food entitlement programs and educational benefits, regardless if you are legal or illegal (which IMHO shouldn’t matter) and I think that should not be the case. I think someone should have to pay for those benefits and not be able to run up a bill and not pay and or leave the country.
> 
> ...



I hear what you're saying but I disagree. That policy would screw all green card holders who serve in the US Military, quite a few of which have been killed in this war...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 15, 2014)

pardus said:


> I hear what you're saying but I disagree. That policy would screw all green card holders who serve in the US Military, quite a few of which have been killed in this war...



I get what you are saying about military service, I think service should be automatic citizenship.


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## pardus (Jan 15, 2014)

JAB said:


> I get what you are saying about military service, I think service should be automatic citizenship.



Yeah, I agree. It is very easy now to become a citizen once you enlist thanks to Pres Bush. I filled out two easy forms and one month later was sworn in. Shocking considering the hassle I had to get my green card.


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## JHD (Jan 16, 2014)

Of the people I know personally that have immigrated legally, all are upstanding citizens contributing to our society.  One of my best friends became involved with an Englishman who was here legally, but was not yet a citizen.  Even though they were planning to be married, they didn't marry just for a quick, easy path to citizenship for him.  He paid an attorney thousands of dollars to assist in the process of getting to stay here legally once his visa expired.

Amnesty for those that broke the law to get here is not they way to go, I don't think, and is not fair to those who go through the process to legally become citizens.  A good start would be enforcing the laws we have on our books, but beyond that, there is no easy, snap-your-fingers, bling-your-head, answers to the issue.  Arizona seems to be doing a better job than California addressing some of the issues though.

All that said, though, we need people to immigrate in order to keep the economy going.  The US isn't growing fast enough by itself to grow the economy without the infusion.  I would just prefer that they be here legally.


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## pardus (Jan 16, 2014)

I spoke with another legal immigrant who told me he was considering starting a class action suit against the federal govt if they give amnesty to the illegals. His point, why did we have to spend thousands of dollars and hassle to come here and those fucks get a free pass? Give us our money back.


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## DA SWO (Jan 16, 2014)

JHD said:


> Of the people I know personally that have immigrated legally, all are upstanding citizens contributing to our society.  One of my best friends became involved with an Englishman who was here legally, but was not yet a citizen.  Even though they were planning to be married, they didn't marry just for a quick, easy path to citizenship for him.  He paid an attorney thousands of dollars to assist in the process of getting to stay here legally once his visa expired.
> 
> Amnesty for those that broke the law to get here is not they way to go, I don't think, and is not fair to those who go through the process to legally become citizens.  A good start would be enforcing the laws we have on our books, but beyond that, there is no easy, snap-your-fingers, bling-your-head, answers to the issue.  Arizona seems to be doing a better job than California addressing some of the issues though.
> 
> *All that said, though, we need people to immigrate in order to keep the economy going.  The US isn't growing fast enough by itself to grow the economy without the infusion.  I would just prefer that they be here legally.*



We need immigrants to fill job vacancies, but we also need to extend unemployment because there are no jobs?  I love logic.


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## JHD (Jan 16, 2014)

SOWT said:


> We need immigrants to fill job vacancies, but we also need to extend unemployment because there are no jobs?  I love logic.



Agree with you there.  Many immigrants are obviously taking the jobs that are available as some legal unemployed citizens won't because they believe it is beneath them.  And maybe those jobs don't pay well enough to keep them in the style to which they have become accustomed.  

We also need the dollars immigrants spend here to spur the growth.


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## BeardedConservative (Jan 17, 2014)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...transporting-smuggled-kids-likens-to-furious/


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## Chopstick (Jan 17, 2014)

That child smuggling story makes me think of Elian Gonzalez.  I guess if little Elian floated over from Cuba today,  he would not be getting sent back.


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## BloodStripe (Oct 3, 2014)

"The moment I act — and it will be taking place between the November election and the end of the year" - Barry Obama

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-action-immigration-not-001446480--politics.html

So he realizes that his actions would cause the Democrat's the election so he's going to do it during a time just before he is out of office. What a fucking coward.


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## Gypsy (Oct 6, 2014)

SOTGWarrior said:


> "
> 
> So he realizes that his actions would cause the Democrat's the election so he's going to do it during a time just before he is out of office. What a fucking coward.



Agreed, this is no surprise.


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## 104TN (Oct 19, 2014)

"Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs


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## pardus (Oct 19, 2014)

rick said:


> "Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs



Fucking assholes!


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## Centermass (Oct 20, 2014)

rick said:


> "Unnoticed until now, a draft solicitation for bids issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) Oct. 6 says potential vendors must be capable of handling a 'surge' scenario of 9 million id cards in one year 'to support possible future immigration reform initiative requirements.'"
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...y-Prepares-Surge-Of-Millions-Of-Immigrant-IDs



One word: 

More votes.


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## 104TN (Oct 20, 2014)

Centermass said:


> One word:
> 
> More votes.



That's two words, but I completely agree. 

Even though this pisses me off to no end, you almost have to admire the guile.

This one guy (O) has created such a furor that he all but gifted the Senate majority to the GOP - yet through executive order, he's still going to manage to set his party up to hold the reigns for the foreseeable future. 

O promised hope and change, he just didn't say for who.


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## Florida173 (Oct 20, 2014)

If the people are already here and are what I would consider a "good consumer," I believe they should be fast tracked at a significantly easier pace.  

I have some Brit and Canadian "friends" (stupid periodic reviews) who have technically out-stayed their welcome in the States, but don't really have any family or friends back home to help a transition back.  I suppose there is a huge difference with not being able to control the flow of immigration, and having a program that allows for a path to citizenship for people that have already been deemed allowed in through various other programs.


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## Centermass (Oct 20, 2014)

rick said:


> That's two words, but I completely agree.



Just seeing who's on their second cup of coffee and paying attention. 

And seeing how Rick is the first member to address this, he wins a prize supplied by Shadowspear. 

And what would that be you ask? 

After checking with the staff and management here, hold on to your duffers.........

They've agreed to keep your account valid and allow you to continue to post!


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## Six-Two (Oct 20, 2014)

The real travesty to me is the Afghans and Iraqis who worked with NATO forces (primarily as translators) who have to go through six rings of shit to get here - a process that can take up to 4 years, if it happens at all. In the meantime, their families get killed and abducted, and best case, they're forced to spend their life savings to get them out of captivity.

This probably merits its own thread, but I didn't realize til today how INSANELY difficult it is for guys who put their lives on the line in AFG & Iraq, alongside Marines, SF, Seals, etc. to get here. It should not be easier for anyone than those dudes. I get that it's a different situation considering that "Insider Killings" spooked everybody for a few years (and frankly, it's a threat that needs to be considered), but there are different ways to handle that other than 956 pages of paperwork, and 3 year waits during which your family is murdered cause you helped coalition forces.

Oh, and the program is ending at the end of the year.

I personally can't believe the shortsightedness on behalf of State - who the FUCK is gonna translate for us when we're balls deep in ISIS/ISIL ass in a year and need someone to trust us?

There's a full segment on Last Week Tonight that details the problem in about 15 minutes - I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of you.
Anyway, end threadjack!


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## pardus (Oct 20, 2014)

That is so upsetting and angering!


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## Centermass (Oct 21, 2014)

pardus said:


> That is so upsetting and angering!



I know. You figure Rick would at least rate a t-shirt or a coin.......


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## JedisonsDad (Oct 1, 2022)

Pelosi decimated for claiming illegal immigrants need to stay in Florida to ‘pick the crops down here’ | Fox News


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## AWP (Oct 2, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> Pelosi decimated for claiming illegal immigrants need to stay in Florida to ‘pick the crops down here’ | Fox News




#2 after Harris, folks. Pray for Brandon's continued good health and for the love of whatever god you believe in, keep that man off a bicycle!


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