# 11th Airborne Division in Alaska



## Devildoc (May 6, 2022)

To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse.  So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit.  I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska.  But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?  

Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops


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## racing_kitty (May 6, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse.  So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit.  I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska.  But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?
> 
> Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops


There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense.  The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.


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## AWP (May 6, 2022)

racing_kitty said:


> There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense.  The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.


I think they added 3rd ID when the 82nd turned in its Sheridans.

Didn’t 3rd ID contribute the tanks that rolled with the SOF task force during the invasion of Iraq?

ETA: The 11th probably has a stronger history than previous airborne divisions. Not that I matter, but it is probably a good call.


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## racing_kitty (May 6, 2022)

AWP said:


> I think they added 3rd ID when the 82nd turned in its Sheridans.
> 
> Didn’t 3rd ID contribute the tanks that rolled with the SOF task force during the invasion of Iraq?
> 
> ETA: The 11th probably has a stronger history than previous airborne divisions. Not that I matter, but it is probably a good call.


I believe they did. I couldn’t tell you what brigade it was, as I don’t remember right offhand. I want to say first, but I’m not certain. 

I never thought to question why a non-Airborne division would fall under an Airborne corps, and since I was only part of a non-Airborne tenant org, I didn’t make the time to understand the reasoning.


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## Devildoc (May 6, 2022)

Army organization thoroughly confuses me.

I love the heritage, the history, the lineage. But how units get invented and disinvented, that shit confuses me.


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## DasBoot (May 7, 2022)

racing_kitty said:


> There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense.  The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.


3rd ID is under Corps for GRF/Forcible entry reasons. The logic goes: Regiment does the initial airhead seizure, 82nd jumps in again and pushes airhead out, 3rd ID comes in on C5s with the Brads and Abrams and starts the push. 

11th Airborne had a good history, but had a rough go in Sicily and go shifted to the Pacific where they never performed a jump and operated as standard infantry, If my memory serves me. I think it’s good to refocus the units and give the 25th CG the ability to focus on Hawaii alone now, and give the AK boys someone closer to the flag pole to call “dad.”


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## AWP (May 8, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> 3rd ID is under Corps for GRF/Forcible entry reasons. The logic goes: Regiment does the initial airhead seizure, 82nd jumps in again and pushes airhead out, 3rd ID comes in on C5s with the Brads and Abrams and starts the push.
> 
> 11th Airborne had a good history, but had a rough go in Sicily and go shifted to the Pacific where they never performed a jump and operated as standard infantry, If my memory serves me. I think it’s good to refocus the units and give the 25th CG the ability to focus on Hawaii alone now, and give the AK boys someone closer to the flag pole to call “dad.”



They were stateside during Sicily and first saw combat in the Philippines as line infantry. If the link below is correct they had 4 combat jumps in WWII including one using L-4/ L-5 "piper cub" type aircraft.

United States Combat Jumps


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## Gunz (May 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Army organization thoroughly confuses me.



They have lots of and badges and patches and berets. There's that. And apparently you can be in an airborne unit and wear the unit's bling etc and yet not be a paratrooper. On the rare occasions I made it into Danang, there were all these dudes with Screaming Eagle patches--whom I naturally assumed to be paratroopers--although many of them were not.


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## Devildoc (May 8, 2022)

Gunz said:


> They have lots of and badges and patches and berets. There's that. And apparently you can be in an airborne unit and wear the unit's bling etc and yet not be a paratrooper. On the rare occasions I made it into Danang, there were all these dudes with Screaming Eagle patches--whom I naturally assumed to be paratroopers--although many of them were not.



I've always been fascinated by army heraldry, history, badges, etc.  When I was growing up all the dudes in my family gave me their stuff so I started collecting and studying it.  But there's so much weirdness to it and a lot of it doesn't make sense.  Like, there is a 'jungle' and 'arctic' tab, but you can only wear it if you're in that AO.

Re: jump school, when I was a reservist I went on orders for I&I staff for a reserve center, S3 was always getting memos about slots to this school and that school.  We'd send a handful of Marines to jump school for the "cool guy badge".


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## SpongeBob*24 (May 8, 2022)

racing_kitty said:


> There's a lot that the Army does that really doesn't make a lick of sense.  The only actual Airborne organizations near Ft. Stewart are the Ranger battalion and associated support units, and yet the 3rd ID falls under the XVIII Airborne Corps.  I'm sure they have their reasons, but who knows what they are.



Being a support guy for 18th ABN Corps at Bragg in the 90's sucked!!!  At any given time 2-3 Units, besides those on Bragg (44Med / 525Intel / 18Arty / 16MP / 20Eng / 82nd / 18thHQ Turds), were in the field doing a WARFIGHTER, JRTC, NTC....or just a FTX.  So we pretty much lived in the field.

Some other units we supported besides 3ID (as mentioned) in my brain of memories...
10th MTN - Ft Drum, NY
108th ADA - Ft Bliss, TX
101st AA - Ft Campbell, KY


Pros:  I saved all my Moneys
Cons:  It was hard to keep weight on



[Edit - cleaned up Units...more memories came back as I started drinking more]


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## ThunderHorse (May 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> To be honest, Army units, lineage, and nomenclature are not in my wheelhouse.  So with that, it does not make a lot of sense to me to wholesale rename a unit.  I get that the 25th ID is tropic-focused and it does make sense to remove them from Alaska.  But why the 11th Airborne, especially when they have not decided if all elements are going to be actually airborne qualified?
> 
> Army Creating Second Paratrooper Division as Service Forges New Identity for Arctic Troops


When it comes to unit amalgamation and not respecting history, the US Army is really good at destroying its own history.  We don't do a lot of stuff to preserve our history and we don't maintain pomp and circumstance of anything. We're just being stupid and creating under-sized maneuver units.  The Army is talking about going back to using the Division and not the BCT as it's main maneuver force because a Division is just used as a HQ unit rather than some CG getting to maneuver HIS pieces on the battlefield he maneuver's his best buddy's pieces because he happens to be deployed as the higher hq in theater.

11th Infantry Division was a Notional Unit and a deception formation in England during WWII.

11th Airborne Division fought all its engagements in the Pacific.


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## Devildoc (May 8, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> When it comes to unit amalgamation and not respecting history, the US Army is really good at destroying its own history.  We don't do a lot of stuff to preserve our history and we don't maintain pomp and circumstance of anything. We're just being stupid and creating under-sized maneuver units.  The Army is talking about going back to using the Division and not the BCT as it's main maneuver force because a Division is just used as a HQ unit rather than some CG getting to maneuver HIS pieces on the battlefield he maneuver's his best buddy's pieces because he happens to be deployed as the higher hq in theater.
> 
> 11th Infantry Division was a Notional Unit and a deception formation in England during WWII.
> 
> 11th Airborne Division fought all its engagements in the Pacific.



The Marines are getting just as bad, casing colors of some units, and reinventing old ones. Some squadrons have been active and deactivated multiple times over the past 70 years.

One thing that fascinates me about the history of the army, a lot of soldiers identify with their particular battalion or regiment and not the division, but wear the division patch.  Then there is the army patch. Then there are people wearing airborne patches who are not airborne qualified.  I used to have several books on army crests, insignia, and patches, back when I collected them. I loved reading up on that stuff.


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## DasBoot (May 8, 2022)

AWP said:


> They were stateside during Sicily and first saw combat in the Philippines as line infantry. If the link below is correct they had 4 combat jumps in WWII including one using L-4/ L-5 "piper cub" type aircraft.
> 
> United States Combat Jumps


Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.


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## SOSTCRNA (May 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> The Marines are getting just as bad, casing colors of some units, and reinventing old ones. Some squadrons have been active and deactivated multiple times over the past 70 years.
> 
> One thing that fascinates me about the history of the army,* a lot of soldiers identify with their particular battalion or regiment and not the division*, but wear the division patch.  Then there is the army patch. Then there are people wearing airborne patches who are not airborne qualified.  I used to have several books on army crests, insignia, and patches, back when I collected them. I loved reading up on that stuff.


Really?  I’ve never heard any soldier or former soldier reminisce about their battalion or regiment and not their division ((75th being an obvious exception but they are not part of a division). Granted, their memories of the service time were of their smaller units right down to their squad but that’s the people they actually knew.


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## Devildoc (May 8, 2022)

SOSTCRNA said:


> Really?  I’ve never heard any soldier or former soldier reminisce about their battalion or regiment and not their division ((75th being an obvious exception but they are not part of a division). Granted, their memories of the service time were of their smaller units right down to their squad but that’s the people they actually knew.



That's my obs.  "What unit were you in?" "Oh, first battalion, 247th infantry."  Me: "Oh."  Them: "It's part of the 82nd Airborne."  Me:  "Ooohhhh.... (lightbulb moment).

Or I get: "I was in the 1st Infantry Division."  Me: "Oh, Ft Riley, right?"  Them: "Yeah, but my actual unit was stationed elsewhere...."  I get that, too:  Them: "You were in the Navy?  What ship were you on?"  Me:  "Oh, I was never haze gray and underway, I was never aboard a ship, and I never spent anytime aboard a Navy base."  Then to really blow their mind:  Me:  "I spent almost the entirety of my 17 years assigned to the Marines."  Them: "But I thought you said you were in the Navy....."

Maybe because it's the unit in which you intimately train?  I don't know.  I think part of the problem is in translation, trying to jam army org into Marine Corps org to try to find =/=.


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## Devildoc (May 8, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.



Dude.  I have a son who will go in and deliberately edit Wiki pages to to screw with people.  Well, he _did_, until I got ahold of him.  He doesn't do that anymore.


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## SOSTCRNA (May 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> That's my obs.  "What unit were you in?" "Oh, first battalion, 247th infantry."  Me: "Oh."  Them: "It's part of the 82nd Airborne."  Me:  "Ooohhhh.... (lightbulb moment).
> 
> Or I get: "I was in the 1st Infantry Division."  Me: "Oh, Ft Riley, right?"  Them: "Yeah, but my actual unit was stationed elsewhere...."  I get that, too:  Them: "You were in the Navy?  What ship were you on?"  Me:  "Oh, I was never haze gray and underway, I was never aboard a ship, and I never spent anytime aboard a Navy base."  Then to really blow their mind:  Me:  "I spent almost the entirety of my 17 years assigned to the Marines."  Them: "But I thought you said you were in the Navy....."
> 
> Maybe because it's the unit in which you intimately train?  I don't know.  I think part of the problem is in translation, trying to jam army org into Marine Corps org to try to find =/=.


I believe you, just totally opposite of my experience. It’s always division and if the person is familiar with division then discussion of subordinate units   Eg. I was in the 82nd. Oh really, what unit?  3/505. Cool , I was 2/505 etc

Now as for the navy, your units of assignments are only slightly less confusing than your enlisted ranks 😁


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## Devildoc (May 8, 2022)

SOSTCRNA said:


> I believe you, just totally opposite of my experience. It’s always division and if the person is familiar with division then discussion of subordinate units   Eg. I was in the 82nd. Oh really, what unit?  3/505. Cool , I was 2/505 etc
> 
> *Now as for the navy, your units of assignments are only slightly less confusing than your enlisted ranks 😁*



LOL.  Our enlisted rank structure is built to confuse The Man.  It's the only power we have.

No shit, last award I got when I was enlisted, the company first sergeant was calling me up, it was like "Petty officer....er, HM....uh....Doc Mandelin, front and center."


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## ThunderHorse (May 8, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.


Give the entire Division a combat jump star because the CG was an advisor to a jump.

ETA- The Army really screwed over keeping historical units together by junking the regimental system.  So you have a 6-1 Cav that never existed when the unit was actually a regiment with an A company.  Then a 6-4 Cav (was in this one) with company designations of A-C.  UICs are dumb.


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## SpitfireV (May 8, 2022)

All your ranks confuse me. Concurrant ranks with different names, giving them a letter and number too, so many types of sergeant, TWO PRIVATE  RANKS?!, officers who aren't officers but are officers in another class system?

Combine that with all the flair and it's the best accidental counter intelligence I've seen.


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## Gunz (May 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> That's my obs.  "What unit were you in?" "Oh, first battalion, 247th infantry."  Me: "Oh."  Them: "It's part of the 82nd Airborne."  Me:  "Ooohhhh.... (lightbulb moment).
> 
> Or I get: "I was in the 1st Infantry Division."  Me: "Oh, Ft Riley, right?"  Them: "Yeah, but my actual unit was stationed elsewhere...."  I get that, too:  Them: "You were in the Navy?  What ship were you on?"  Me:  "Oh, I was never haze gray and underway, I was never aboard a ship, and I never spent anytime aboard a Navy base."  Then to really blow their mind:  Me:  "I spent almost the entirety of my 17 years assigned to the Marines."  Them: "But I thought you said you were in the Navy....."
> 
> Maybe because it's the unit in which you intimately train?  I don't know.  I think part of the problem is in translation, trying to jam army org into Marine Corps org to try to find =/=.



.


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## Marauder06 (May 8, 2022)

Gunz said:


> They have lots of and badges and patches and berets. There's that. And ap*parently you can be in an airborne unit and wear the unit's bling etc and yet not be a paratrooper*. On the rare occasions I made it into Danang, there were all these dudes with Screaming Eagle patches--whom I naturally assumed to be paratroopers--although many of them were not.


In most Army units, headgear and other related accoutrements are unit-specific.  It's very common  for non-Airborne personnel to be in Airborne units (or "Airborne" units, like the 101st) and not be jump qualified.  

When I was in the 101st, which was "Airborne" in pretty much name only, the only people I remember  being on Airborne status were the Division LRS and the instructors at the Pathfinder school.  But the rest of us were authorized (and expected to wear) jump boots.  

Back in the day, everyone in an SF unit wore a green beret, although the flash was different for SF and non-SF.  My father showed up to 5th Group as an intel officer and went through SFAS.  So he had a green beret before he was a Green Beret.


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## Marauder06 (May 8, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> All your ranks confuse me. Concurrant ranks with different names, giving them a letter and number too, so many types of sergeant, TWO PRIVATE  RANKS?!, officers who aren't officers but are officers in another class system?
> 
> Combine that with all the flair and it's the best accidental counter intelligence I've seen.


Three private ranks, brother.  PV1, PV2, and PFC ;)


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## ThunderHorse (May 8, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> All your ranks confuse me. Concurrant ranks with different names, giving them a letter and number too, so many types of sergeant, TWO PRIVATE  RANKS?!, officers who aren't officers but are officers in another class system?
> 
> Combine that with all the flair and it's the best accidental counter intelligence I've seen.


Explain how a Warrant Officer sits in the Sergeant Major role for me. 

Warrant Officers in the US are Warrant Officers because they carry a Warrant from the POTUS versus Commissioned Officers carry commissions from the President.


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## SpitfireV (May 8, 2022)

What are you on about lad?


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## Marauder06 (May 8, 2022)




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## AWP (May 8, 2022)

DasBoot said:


> Who knew Wikipedia could be wrong. I re read the article and realized I misread the bit about Sicily.



Some users will get a Wiki fact check and no more. You and others deserve a deeper dive, which I did before my post.

ETA:
View attachment 39445

WHERE IS A PROPER GODDAMNED LOVE EMOJI?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!?!?! THE PEOPLE DESERVE BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ThunderHorse (May 8, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> What are you on about lad?


You're the one that complained about two classes of officers...well your warrant officers are NCOs but hold positions of Sergeants Major etc.


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## SpitfireV (May 8, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> You're the one that complained about two classes of officers...well your warrant officers are NCOs but hold positions of Sergeants Major etc.



OK I follow now sorry!


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## Intel Nerd (May 10, 2022)

SOSTCRNA said:


> Really?  I’ve never heard any soldier or former soldier reminisce about their battalion or regiment and not their division ((75th being an obvious exception but they are not part of a division). Granted, their memories of the service time were of their smaller units right down to their squad but that’s the people they actually knew.



Triple Deuce through and through.


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## SOSTCRNA (May 10, 2022)

Intel Nerd said:


> Triple Deuce through and through.


Sorry, lost me here


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## Kaldak (May 10, 2022)

SOSTCRNA said:


> Sorry, lost me here



22nd Infantry Regiment (United States) - Wikipedia

I'm assuming he means 2nd battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment.


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## Intel Nerd (May 12, 2022)

Kaldak said:


> 22nd Infantry Regiment (United States) - Wikipedia
> 
> I'm assuming he means 2nd battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment.



That's correct. Anyone in that unit will identify with that BN closer to any unit they've probably ever served in. Just from personal observations.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 13, 2022)

Speaking of Alaskan Airborne…

Holy smokes does this suck….

Pictured: 'Inspirational' US soldier killed by bear defending cubs


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## Marauder06 (May 13, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Speaking of Alaskan Airborne…
> 
> Holy smokes does this suck….
> 
> Pictured: 'Inspirational' US soldier killed by bear defending cubs


We have lots of bears here.  They're black bears so they're more timid than brown bears (I'm told, I"ve not been around a bunch of brown bears before) but they'd still mess me up pretty bad.  Especially if there are cubs.


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## Devildoc (May 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> We have lots of bears here.  They're black bears so they're more timid than brown bears (I'm told, I"ve not been around a bunch of brown bears before) but they'd still mess me up pretty bad.  Especially if there are cubs.



I have seen black bears in North Carolina. Shoot, even in my town there is a bare sighting about once a year and it's common for trail cams to capture them on camera locally.  They are pretty shy.  

Okay when I was in the military we did some training at Kodiak, where we were told that the brown bears can be more aggressive and we need to have a higher degree of situational awareness because of that.


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## Marauder06 (May 13, 2022)

The bears here are like big, mischievous dogs that get into your trash every once in a while but that people still like to look at and think are cool to have around.


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## SOSTCRNA (May 13, 2022)

Intel Nerd said:


> That's correct. Anyone in that unit will identify with that BN closer to any unit they've probably ever served in. Just from personal observations.


Cool, that’s the beauty of a forum, everyone can share their unique experiences.


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## Marauder06 (May 28, 2022)




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## Gunz (May 29, 2022)

Yes, Mass Airborne Operations are a Thing of the Past - Modern War Institute


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## AWP (May 29, 2022)

Shit, for the US winning wars is a thing of the past but we keep fighting them...


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## BloodStripe (May 30, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> The Marines are getting just as bad, casing colors of some units, and reinventing old ones. Some squadrons have been active and deactivated multiple times over the past 70 years.
> 
> One thing that fascinates me about the history of the army, a lot of soldiers identify with their particular battalion or regiment and not the division, but wear the division patch.  Then there is the army patch. Then there are people wearing airborne patches who are not airborne qualified.  I used to have several books on army crests, insignia, and patches, back when I collected them. I loved reading up on that stuff.


Some colors always get cased except during wartime, specifically the 9th Marines.


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## Devildoc (May 30, 2022)

BloodStripe said:


> Some colors always get cased except during wartime, specifically the 9th Marines.



Yep, 9th Marines have been like a yo-yo, activated deactivated, back and forth.  Shame, too.  That regiment was a meat eater.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 31, 2022)

I mean in all reality, we are just talking about people falling out of airplanes and landing in trees and shit...😋


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## Gunz (May 31, 2022)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I mean in all reality, we are just talking about people falling out of *perfectly good* airplanes and landing in trees and shit...😋



FIFY


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