# Sgt. Maj. of the Army all but says Army adopting MultiCam



## Florida173 (Sep 22, 2013)

Seems the SMA mentioned that the Army will be going to Multicam type pattern soon.. It's about time. I think most of us that are still playing prefer the multicam over UCP. Although I'm doubting it will be as it was meant to be by Crye, I'm sure it will be a huge improvement over the current uniform. Now we just need to kill the damn ASUs, not that I've worn a dress uniform but maybe twice in the past 14 years...



> On a separate note, Chandler also told troops that the new Army combat uniforms will likely be phased in starting eight to nine months from now. The uniform will feature different colors for different environments, but the pattern will be very similar to the mottled “multicam” currently used in Afghanistan under the designation “Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage Pattern.”



http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2013/09/22/sgt-maj-of-the-army-says-army-adopting-multicam/


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## goon175 (Sep 22, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> Seems the SMA mentioned that the Army will be going to Multicam type pattern soon.. It's about time. I think most of us that are still playing prefer the multicam over UCP. Although I'm doubting it will be as it was meant to be by Crye, I'm sure it will be a huge improvement over the current uniform. Now we just need to kill the damn ASUs, not that I've worn a dress uniform but maybe twice in the past 14 years...
> 
> 
> 
> http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2013/09/22/sgt-maj-of-the-army-says-army-adopting-multicam/



So basically he is saying the Army will rip off the Multicam pattern instead of paying for it?


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## DA SWO (Sep 22, 2013)

Awesome, wonder if all that ACU colored gear will reduce the effectiveness.


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## pardus (Sep 23, 2013)

Hmm, almost multicam, I'll take it. 



SOWT said:


> Awesome, wonder if all that ACU colored gear will reduce the effectiveness.



They did say from the start that UCP would disappear completely. With a dedicated cam pattern for gear that would blend with all the new cam patterns being adopted. 
I guess the Army just told the Senate to go fuck itself with it's all branches wearing the same uniform policy.


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## Florida173 (Sep 23, 2013)

goon175 said:


> So basically he is saying the Army will rip off the Multicam pattern instead of paying for it?



I'm wondering if they are going with the UCP-Delta instead..
.
.


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## reed11b (Sep 23, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> I'm wondering if they are going with the UCP-Delta instead..
> .
> .


Shut your mouth! 
Reed


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2013)

pardus said:


> I guess the Army just told the Senate to go fuck itself with it's all branches wearing the same uniform policy.



The Army will spend a few billion on this new kinda-sorta multi cam. Then proclaim that it would be too expensive to change to anything else the other branches come up with. Which will force all the other branches to adopt our pattern, allowing our Army to proclaim that we led the way in uniform development for all US armed forces. It will be a great bullet point on many officers OER/retirement resumes and the Army will have been victorious in putting the green weenie into the pooper of every service member for decades to come.

It's an Army thing...


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## 0699 (Sep 23, 2013)

JAB said:


> The Army will spend a few billion on this new kinda-sorta multi cam. *Then proclaim that it would be too expensive to change to anything else the other branches come up with*. Which will force all the other branches to adopt our pattern, allowing our Army to proclaim that we led the way in uniform development for all US armed forces. It will be a great bullet point on many officers OER/retirement resumes and the Army will have been victorious in putting the green weenie into the pooper of every service member for decades to come.
> 
> It's an Army thing...


 
I'll bet you $5 the Marines tell them "Fuck off.  We ain't changing..."


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2013)

0699 said:


> I'll bet you $5 the Marines tell them "Fuck off.  We ain't changing..."



I bet you the senate makes the Marine's wear pink flight suits for not taking Army hand-me-downs, like a good bastard-stepchild.

All kidding aside, I love you guys, and it absolutely will break my heart to see you Marine's wearing Army uniforms. But we all have to give a little, tight budgets, good of the nation, and all that. I wonder how that first Marine will respond with some Army personnel clerk NCO screams out "hey soldier, fix that head gear"..... bawhahaha


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## x SF med (Sep 23, 2013)

Uniform needs to match environment and mission...  there is no panacea for the clothing of a soldier (generally used) in the field.  What works in the jungles doesn't always work in the higher elevation woodlands nor on irrigated field land nor above a tree line nor in a desert (high or sandy)...  and none of them are great for a garrison environment...  We used to modify our own uniforms for the environment if needed...  spray paint and dye are great for that...  and OG 107's had a great shape for movement and assault...  Even the Gen 2 BDUs could be modified for color...


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## Totentanz (Sep 23, 2013)

JAB said:


> The Army will spend a few billion on this new kinda-sorta multi cam. Then proclaim that it would be too expensive to change to anything else the other branches come up with. Which will force all the other branches to adopt our pattern, allowing our Army to proclaim that we led the way in uniform development for all US armed forces. It will be a great bullet point on many officers OER/retirement resumes and the Army will have been victorious in putting the green weenie into the pooper of every service member for decades to come.
> 
> It's an Army thing...



I want to hate this post so badly... but it's disturbingly close to reality.:wall::wall::wall:


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## reed11b (Sep 23, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Uniform needs to match environment and mission...  there is no panacea for the clothing of a soldier (generally used) in the field.  What works in the jungles doesn't always work in the higher elevation woodlands nor on irrigated field land nor above a tree line nor in a desert (high or sandy)...  and none of them are great for a garrison environment...  We used to modify our own uniforms for the environment if needed...  spray paint and dye are great for that...  and OG 107's had a great shape for movement and assault...  Even the Gen 2 BDUs could be modified for color...


Now you just sound old and bitter...
Reed


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## x SF med (Sep 23, 2013)

reed11b said:


> Now you just sound old and bitter...
> Reed


 
No, just stating realistic and cost effective options for diversifying uniforms for environment....  and using a uniform where the crotch doesn't self destruct after 10 min as a base....


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2013)

I agree 100% with X SF med, my first 3 years in the Army was in a scout plt/ sniper section. We made modification to all of our uniform/equipment to work in or environment. Its always pissed me off that line companies wouldn't allow joe's to do the same (obviously with sound supervision).

Cutting,  painting, and sewing burlap is too easy. My old scout BDUs use to cost about $150 a set after the Korean lady at the sewing place got done with them. Best uniform I have ever had/used.


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## AWP (Sep 23, 2013)

Considering that the Army solicited bids for new camo if it were to "suddenly" develop something in-house:
1) What company in their right mind would do business with the Army, at least for proprietary designs.
2) That's a pretty big GFY to the US Senate. While not my favorite group of people that's a BS move on the Army's part.
3) This will devolve into a "my pattern vs. your pattern" fight with the other services....which is what everyone was trying to avoid in the first place.

I'll see how it shakes out and I truly hope I'm wrong, but this has EPIC FAIL written all over it.



JAB said:


> always pissed me off that line companies wouldn't allow joe's to do the same (*obviously with sound supervision*).


 
Slow down, Cowboy, you want leaders to lead, think, and take responsibility for their actions?

When I was 19 I swore I wouldn't be one of those bitter old guys...


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## reed11b (Sep 23, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> Considering that the Army solicited bids for new camo if it were to "suddenly" develop something in-house:
> 1) What company in their right mind would do business with the Army, at least for proprietary designs.
> 2) That's a pretty big GFY to the US Senate. While not my favorite group of people that's a BS move on the Army's part.
> 3) This will devolve into a "my pattern vs. your pattern" fight with the other services....which is what everyone was trying to avoid in the first place.
> ...


How do the Marines get a pass on this one? Didn't they start this BS with there "we are too special to share" MARPAT? ACU is horrendous so getting rid of it before the hammer comes down seems like SMART idea to me.
Reed


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## AWP (Sep 23, 2013)

reed11b said:


> How do the Marines get a pass on this one? Didn't they start this BS with there "we are to special to share" MARPAT? ACU is horrendous so getting rid of it before the hammer comes down seems like SMART idea to me.
> Reed


 
In essence, the Army will set a precedent (if the story is true). The Senate says "You will..." and the Army thumbs its nose at them? I guess it has some wiggle room because of the language, but taking what is essentially a COTS solution, making some changes, and calling it "ours" is a step in the wrong direction.

The Marines will get a pass because A) the Army will do whatever it wants to and B) the pro-Marine lobbyists will point to that and use it as an "out." The Army could deflate their sails quite a bit if it doesn't "develop" (steal) a Multicam knockoff. Think of how it plays:

"Multicam is a fantastic pattern which has served us well in Afghanistan, however it isn't ideal. To that end, we've developed..."

or

"We recognize the need for a common uniform pattern. With Multicam already in the Army inventory we've adopted that as our interim solution while we work with our fellow Branches..."

The Army will give the Marines a pass with this decision.


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2013)

We should ask Gen. Moran, he did a great job with this the first time around....


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## 0699 (Sep 23, 2013)

JAB said:


> *I bet you the senate makes the Marine's wear pink flight suits for not taking Army hand-me-downs*, like a good bastard-stepchild.
> 
> All kidding aside, I love you guys, and it absolutely will break my heart to see you Marine's wearing Army uniforms. But we all have to give a little, tight budgets, good of the nation, and all that. I wonder how that first Marine will respond with some Army personnel clerk NCO screams out "hey soldier, fix that head gear"..... bawhahaha


 
I'll take that bet... 

Seriously, I think you over-estimate the Army's pull and under-estimate the Corps' influence on politicians.


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## DA SWO (Sep 23, 2013)

Florida173 said:


> I'm wondering if they are going with the UCP-Delta instead..
> .
> .


I hate to  say this, but that pattern actually makes sense from a financial standpoint.

You could phase all the ACU crap out and get some return from the investment.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 23, 2013)

No "pay raise" to keep military pay above the cost of inflation.  Military benefits about to fall to the budget axe.  Two wars left to finish and one about to get started.

But hey, shiny new uniforms!


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## pardus (Sep 23, 2013)

reed11b said:


> How do the Marines get a pass on this one? Didn't they start this BS with there "we are too special to share" MARPAT? ACU is horrendous so getting rid of it before the hammer comes down seems like SMART idea to me.
> Reed



Remember, the Marines paid for the research to be done on their cam patterns. They have every right in the world to copyright it.
They are the only branch that has proven they are smart enough to develop and issue sensible uniforms. I don't blame them in the slightest.


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2013)

pardus said:


> Remember, the Marines paid for the research to be done on their cam patterns. They have every right in the world to copyright it.
> They are the only branch that has proven they are smart enough to develop and issue sensible uniforms. I don't blame them in the slightest.



I disagree with that slightly. The Marines did not pay for the research, the taxpayers did. And if it is more beneficial to the taxpayers to have a unified pattern between the branches, then the Marines can't (or shouldn't) say much about it.


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## pardus (Sep 23, 2013)

goon175 said:


> I disagree with that slightly. The Marines did not pay for the research, the taxpayers did. And if it is more beneficial to the taxpayers to have a unified pattern between the branches, then the Marines can't (or shouldn't) say much about it.



Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.


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## goon175 (Sep 23, 2013)

pardus said:


> Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.



As far as the military is concerned, I agree. If the government developed it, than any of the branches should be able to use it. That would be like saying "The Army developed a new carbine, but only the Army can use it". It just doesn't make sense.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2013)

pardus said:


> Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.



I think the copyright/you can't wear our shit was an all around bad deal. They should have said "hey Army look what we did, you guys should use this too". Instead they said "hey everybody check out our cool new uniforms, we copyrighted this shit so you can't use it, because we think we are better than you and we like being different".

Army said "oh yeah USMC, we've got UCP now, so HA"!

Marines "bawhahahaha you guys look stupid"

Navy "we took MARPAT and made all the colors blue b/c we don't want a man overboard to be found in the water"

USAF "wow we really like Army's new UCP, but we will one up them and make it a digital tiger stripe pattern of the same colors, new tiger stripe was cool in Vietnam"

Army "WTF Airforce"

Marines "man all you guys are retarded"

Army "oh well we'll just use multi cam even though we just spent billions on gear and uniforms"

USAF "WTF Army"

Navy "fuck it we'll let Spec War use MARPAT and call it something else, we own the Marines anyway"

USMC "still laughing at the big.mess they started"


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## Mac_NZ (Sep 23, 2013)

You all do realize that the Marines were hoping everyone else would adopt their pattern and pay royalties so they could afford ammo for FY2015 right.


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## Blizzard (May 23, 2014)

Latest:
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140523/NEWS04/305230076/Army-selects-new-camo-pattern

Summary: the Army really wants MultiCam but can't afford it so they developed a knock off version instead.  Wonder what Congress will say about this; still not a single/common multi-service uniform.


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## pardus (May 23, 2014)

Blizzard said:


> Latest:
> http://www.armytimes.com/comments/article/20140523/NEWS04/305230076/Army-selects-new-camo-pattern



I can only see a comments section...


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## Grunt (May 23, 2014)

I would like to have the money they spent on their many "studies" that were conducted to determine the fact that they needed another uniform -- I'm not even asking for the money it will cost to implement it.

Priorities....


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## Blizzard (May 23, 2014)

pardus said:


> I can only see a comments section...


Hmmm...here you go:


			
				Army Times said:
			
		

> The Army has decided on a new camo to replace the unpopular Universal Camouflage Pattern on your ACUs— and the selection is very similar to MultiCam.
> 
> Sources, on condition of anonymity, confirmed Friday that the service has selected Scorpion W2 as its next Army combat uniform camo, a pattern born out of Army Natick labs.
> 
> ...


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## DA SWO (May 24, 2014)

Here is the new "almost" multicam design.


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## Blizzard (May 24, 2014)

I found the last comment in the article to be kind of interesting:


			
				Army Times said:
			
		

> Col. Robert Mortlock, the program manager for Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment, told Army Times at the time that the service examined camo beyond 50 meters and found that, while colors are important, the actual pattern is “not that relevant.”


Not necessarily a surprise but that statement seems somewhat in contrast to what I remember hearing when the digital patterns came out.  It was all about the pattern.


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## Brill (May 24, 2014)

> The Scorpion W2, according to a source, was among the 22 patterns considered in 2010 when the Army began shopping for new combat uniforms. *The Army narrowed that down to four finalists (Scorpion was not among them) *and late last year it looked like leaders were nearing a deal with Crye to adopt MultiCam.



This reeks of external influence (eg. somebody most likely made several cash deposits of $9,500 into their Pentagon Federal Credit Union account).

Another source:

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/05/23/us-army-selects-scorpion-camouflage-pattern/

http://www.hyperstealth.com/scorpion/index.html


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## pardus (May 24, 2014)

So Crye wanted too much money for Multicam but not for Scorpion?   Seems odd.


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## DA SWO (May 24, 2014)

pardus said:


> So Crye wanted too much money for Multicam but not for Scorpion?   Seems odd.


Crye probably figures the Army will be the only ones using scorpion.
Some points to ponder.
The photo was grabbed off of the SSD website, so it may not be accurate.
1. The guy is wearing green boots, so all you folks laughing at the AF for green boots, suck it
2. The stated position is this uniform will be worn with ACU pattern'd TA-50 until that TA-50 wears out.  So look at the photo and imagine ACU gear vice "Scorpion" gear.  I think they should have just added some brown/darker green to the current ACU then transitioned to another uniform (but am probably misguided).
3. MultiCam gear will work fairly well, and the combination of patterns may be very effective.
4. RUMINT says the 173rd Abn Bde, currently deployed all over Eastern Europe, is wearing MultiCam.  Fist "approved" use of MC outside the CentCom AOR.


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## Ranger Psych (May 24, 2014)

Plus, provided units allow it, you *CAN* use rit dyes and make ACU pattern gear into something much more useable... or even stain it with coffee grounds and make ACU pattern worth more of a shit.


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## RayL (May 25, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Crye probably figures the Army will be the only ones using scorpion.
> Some points to ponder.
> The photo was grabbed off of the SSD website, so it may not be accurate.
> 1. The guy is wearing green boots, so all you folks laughing at the AF for green boots, suck it
> ...


Yeah that pic is dated.  That was some of the initial photos from earlier 2000's with the OBJ Force Warrior.


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