# Ranger Support Companies



## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

I didnt want to hijack dknob's thread about going to BUD/S so I've started this thread to discuss the formation of and any bitches gripes/complaints with the RSC's. 
The companies were formed during the Ranger Force XXI exansion plan. I wasn't in BN at the time, I was in RRD but I had visibility on the formation and growing pains of the companies. True, the companies' first volunteers were plucked right from their units (mostly they came from the different companies of the 528th at Bragg) without going through RIP. The reason was because of a NLT operational date that imposed on Regiment by their higher HQ. That meant the new members would not be allowed the chance to go to RIP. 
The plan at that point was to get the new companies up to an operating strength first. Once the companies eventually got their manning up to a certain level (I dont recall what the percentage was) they could start sending the original members back through RIP and all new incoming members would go through RIP, which is now the case.
I understand how some people get upset when they think that the standards have been lowered but if you look at the bigger picture of the Regiment, the unit's capabilities have been increased threefold. The unit is more lethal now because the 11B's in the squads/teams dont have to fill those support roles and can now ficus on the fight. The unit as a whole has become way more lethal and efficient because of these support companies.
Now as far as watching support personnel wear the tan beret. When the black beret was ripped away from us, I had HUGE issues with it. I thought the world was ending and wanted someones head on a platter for giving away my symbol of excellence. After I thought about and I had a squared the fuck away squad leader talk to me about it, I calmed down a bit. He made me realize that the beret was just a hat. I might have volunteered for RIP and the Rangers for the beret or any other visual recruiting tool I had seen, but what made me stay was the brotherhood, the hard work and the daily feeling of accomplishment. I realized the beret was just a symbol of excellence and we made it that way. It didnt matter if we wore a do-rag on our head, if it was the official headgear of the Ranger's then it too would become the symbol of excellence. So I guess my point is find out what really matters (your guys and their training/welfare) and focus on that, dont sweat the small stuff like hats and uniforms.


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## AWP (Oct 14, 2009)

Without trying to hijack your thread, but to put things into perspective, at least you have a selection process for your support guys. Many other SOF units/ organizations don't have that.


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## DA SWO (Oct 14, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Without trying to hijack your thread, but to put things into perspective, at least you have a selection process for your support guys. Many other SOF units/ organizations don't have that.



Agree, always wondered why SF didn't have a mini selection course?

Curious though, how many of the originals actually went to RIP?  My experience was operational requirements meant that guys not attending training at the start of an assignment usually did not get to go.

I also think having organic support is the way to go, you get a better level of support.


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Without trying to hijack your thread, but to put things into perspective, at least you have a selection process for your support guys. Many other SOF units/ organizations don't have that.



Not a hijack at all. Thats the point Im trying to make.


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

SOWT said:


> Agree, always wondered why SF didn't have a mini selection course?
> 
> Curious though, how many of the originals actually went to RIP?  My experience was operational requirements meant that guys not attending training at the start of an assignment usually did not get to go.
> 
> I also think having organic support is the way to go, you get a better level of support.



Initially the originals were given the option to go through RIP and many did not make it so higher said no more RIP slots until the Compnaies were operational. It had the feeling of taking two steps forward and three steps back.


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## dknob (Oct 14, 2009)

My gripe, is that once the RSC had aquired enough guys. They STILL did not send them to RIP. Like I mentioned earlier, they simply adminstered the PT Test, CWST, and the Ruck Marches in order to recieve their tan berets. Im all for these guys getting their shit the right way by sending em through RIP. But they did not do that. What makes Regiment different from many other units in the Army is we can endure a great deal amount of pressure, stress, and physical pain and still keep going. If these guys are not tested on that, they could be proven unreliable overseas.


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

dknob said:


> My gripe, is that once the RSC had aquired enough guys. They STILL did not send them to RIP. Like I mentioned earlier, they simply adminstered the PT Test, CWST, and the Ruck Marches in order to recieve their tan berets. Im all for these guys getting their shit the right way by sending em through RIP. But they did not do that. What makes Regiment different from many other units in the Army is we can endure a great deal amount of pressure, stress, and physical pain and still keep going. If these guys are not tested on that, they could be proven unreliable overseas.


But you have to understand these guys are not operating in the same fashion that the guys on the line are. Why should they have to be assessed and selected based on the same standards when they arent going to operate the same way?


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## dknob (Oct 14, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Without trying to hijack your thread, but to put things into perspective, at least you have a selection process for your support guys. Many other SOF units/ organizations don't have that.




Well theres a difference between RSC and the previous support personnel. Regiment has always had support personnel that go through RIP alongside the shooters, medics, FOs, commo guys, etc. 

The formation of the RSC opened up more slots for other support personnel such as mechanics and additional cooks. They did not go through RIP, and wore the red beret to signify that they are airborne as well as the scroll on the uniform.


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## dknob (Oct 14, 2009)

Tyrant said:


> But you have to understand these guys are not operating in the same fashion that the guys on the line are. Why should they have to be assessed and selected based on the same standards when they arent going to operate the same way?



Im not an 11B, I was a commo guy. And I served as RTO for the line guys on countless objectives across Iraq and Afghanistan. Would you prefer that the medics and commo guys in the line companies did not go through RIP?


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

dknob said:


> Im not an 11B, I was a commo guy. And I served as RTO for the line guys on countless objectives across Iraq and Afghanistan. Would you prefer that the medics and commo guys in the line companies did not go through RIP?



Dude WTF is your argument? Seriously I feel like Im chasing my tail when discussing this with you.
Anyone who is in a Ranger Line company should have to go through RIP (now RASP) anyone who serves in Echo Company should too but they shouldn't be assessed or selected based on the same set of standards because they perform a different job in a different operational environment than the guys in the line do.
The RSC's HAD TO fill their positions at first in order to have a deployable unit by a certain date. If they (The Ranger Regiment) had attempted to fill those positions with RIP graduates, then the companies never would have gotten off the ground.
Remember the first guys to start the modern era Ranger Battalions werent all RIP grads either.


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## Looon (Oct 14, 2009)

RIP isn't what is hard when you get right down to it. RIP's purpose is to weed out the weak.

Im of the belief that the selection should have the same standards regardless of what the MOS is.

Back in my day, all support MOS's still had to graduate RIP while holding to the same standards. Once they got to the unit they obviously didn't have it quite as hard as us. BUT when the time came to invade Panama, those cooks, supply clerks etc strapped their shit on and made the combat jump just like everyone else. They did their duty as a Ranger first. Then after the initial mission was concluded they went about their 'regular' job.

There can and will come a time when a support guy could get jerked to the line to fill in. ie extreme circumstances. Shit happens.

I would assume that the current support company guys have to memorize the creed and are told to live it.

You are supposed to be a Ranger before your MOS. MOS should be secondary. Everyone should be able to pick up a weapon and perform to standard on the field of battle.

Should there be an alternate Creed for the support guys?

The only difference now is the increased amount of support MOS personnel.

The last time I checked there is still a long ass wait on the DEP program to get a shot/slot for option 40 contracts.

Should be same standards IMO.


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## Looon (Oct 14, 2009)

Since the original expansion of the Regiment was used as an example: Sure the probably dropped some of the standards initially, but after they were at an acceptable strength, the standards were inforced once again after they got to a point of being 'caught up'.

The same should apply here. I can understand the initial dropping of standards but they should be brought back up to the original standard.


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

Looon said:


> Since the original expansion of the Regiment was used as an example: Sure the probably dropped some of the standards initially, but after they were at an acceptable strength, the standards were inforced once again after they got to a point of being 'caught up'.
> 
> The same should apply here. I can understand the initial dropping of standards but they should be brought back up to the original standard.



That is exactly what is happening here. Regiment stood up the RSC's with people that werent RIP grads at first, now all of them are RIP grads.
Not that RIP is that big of a deal anyways. 
In your prior post your spoke of one standard for all? Thats a great pipe dream but in TODAYS Regiment not all people are shooters, not all members of the Regiment will jump into combat and save the day, someone has to stay back and do those inglorious jobs and yes they are Rangers too. I believe those people should be assessed and selected to join the Regiment based on their proficiency in their respective field as well as some physical standards to include a psychological eval. They should not have to be assessed based on the skillset of an 11B or any other Line Ranger's measurement for success.
Saying that there should be one standard again is a great idea, but is impossible to enforce. Your RIP class and my RIP class were by nature different yet we were both deemed "good" enough to serve for whatever reasons. 
My original point to all this wasnt RIP, it was the fact that Regiment stood up Ranger Support Companies with the intent of making the Regiment a more lethal place. I believe that intent was met and yes there were possibly some mistakes made along the way, but the world didnt end and neither did the Ranger Regiment.


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## Looon (Oct 14, 2009)

As long as the RIP standard is the same, I can agree with you. Especially since everyone can focus strictly on their job.

It's a different world fo sho.


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## Tyrant (Oct 14, 2009)

Looon said:


> Especially since everyone can focus strictly on their job.



That is the key. At the end of the day does the trigger puller get to focus strictly on getting faster, stronger, more lethal and more acurate? If the answer is yes then all the other petty bullshit about hats and uniforms needs to go away. That is why we have the RSC's, to allow the Ranger in the fight to focus solely on getting better at killing our enemies even if those support guys arent the flat bellied, steely eyed killer Ranger we dream them to be.


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## 8'Duece (Oct 15, 2009)

Tyrant said:


> ....... the flat bellied, .




I don't qualify :doh:


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## dknob (Oct 15, 2009)

Looon said:


> As long as the RIP standard is the same, I can agree with you. Especially since everyone can focus strictly on their job.
> 
> It's a different world fo sho.




Issue here is they do not send them through RIP and still issue them their tan berets to replace their red ones.


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## Tyrant (Oct 15, 2009)

dknob said:


> Issue here is they do not send them through RIP and still issue them their tan berets to replace their red ones.



Are you saying RSC personnel dont currently go through RIP? They go straight to RSC from Airborne school?


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## dknob (Oct 16, 2009)

Yes, from 2006 til I left in 2007, 75% of RSC personnel were straight from Airborne School and quite a bunch of them were actual guys who quit RIP, but due to their valued MOSes, were still assigned to RSC/ECo. 

They were later given their tan berets upon completion of a ruck march, PT test, and 5-miler.


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## Looon (Oct 16, 2009)

dknob said:


> Yes, from 2006 til I left in 2007, 75% of RSC personnel were straight from Airborne School and quite a bunch of them were actual guys who quit RIP, but due to their valued MOSes, were still assigned to RSC/ECo.
> 
> They were later given their tan berets upon completion of a ruck march, PT test, and 5-miler.


That's what I have a problem with if that is indeed the case.

The hat shouldn't be an issue, but it is an issue. 11b's that don't pass RIP don't get to go to the unit and don't get the hat. they get sent world wide.

The 'hat' is a symbol.

They might as well let women in the unit and issue them the hat too.:2c:


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## dknob (Oct 16, 2009)

Exactly my thoughts. The hat, even tho it is just a hat. Is a symbol of excellence. Something that shouldnt be given, but earned.


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## dknob (Oct 16, 2009)

Somebody who has said once: "I quit" during RIP, and was kicked out. Does not deserve to be wearing the tan beret within 2 months.


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## Ranger_Smoothie (Oct 16, 2009)

I can not believe that a Regimental Commander has allowed this to happen, got to be a big problem with the men in regiment now, to see someone walking around with a tan beret on that did not earn it with sweat and tears! BULLSHIT! Where is the CSM? and who is he? 
Does support guys in SF wear green berets? NO.


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