# Army begins shipping improved 5.56mm cartridge



## pardus (Jul 26, 2010)

> PICATINNY ARSENAL, N.J. (June 23, 2010) -- The Army announced today it has begun shipping its new 5.56mm cartridge, the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round, to support warfighters in Afghanistan.
> 
> The new M855A1 round is sometimes referred to as "green ammo."
> 
> ...



http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/06/23/41283-army-begins-shipping-improved-556mm-cartridge/

Sounds great, particularly interested in the statement I made bold saying it performed better than a  7.62X51


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## 8'Duece (Jul 26, 2010)

Maybe they'll start letting the civvies have their M855 at a steep discount. 


I am glad to hear that there is an improvement in the ammuntion, but it begs the question of if they should move to a slightly larger caliber or use more devasting ammunition (hollowtip or hollow point) not ammunition that is _Green_ safe.


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## pardus (Jul 26, 2010)

I seem to recall that there is a hollow tip bullet being issued to snipers...?

It is legal because the hollow tip is designed for accuracy not devastation.

The round is both more accurate and more devastating. 

A Win, Win! :cool:


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## Brooklynben (Jul 26, 2010)

pardus said:


> the M855A1 performed better than current 7.62mm ball ammunition against *certain types of targets*


 Anyone know what these "certain types of targets" were?  Seeing a 5.56 punching through most things _*better*_ than a Nato 7.62 is something I'd like to see!


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## 8'Duece (Jul 26, 2010)

I don't want ammunition to punch through cinder blocks I want it to expand, tumble, explode and leave an exit wound as big as the target's head. 

One shot, center of mass, and you've got a whole plate of red, white and blue meat all over the street.


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## pardus (Jul 26, 2010)

Brooklynben said:


> Anyone know what these "certain types of targets" were?  Seeing a 5.56 punching through most things _*better*_ than a Nato 7.62 is something I'd like to see!


 
I could easily imagine tissue being one of those things.

I'm a big fan of the NATO 7.62 but it has it's down sides too.


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## AWP (Jul 26, 2010)

What's the weight of the round?

And I can see 5.56 performing better than 7.62 at certain things and under certain parameters and desired results (wound cavity for example). For example, I'd bet that 5.56 performs better than 7.62 at close distances like those found in rooms and certain urban settings whereas once the range increases the 7.62 comes into its own and outshines the 5.56.


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## The91Bravo (Jul 26, 2010)

pardus said:


> I seem to recall that there is a hollow tip bullet being issued to snipers...?
> 
> It is legal because the hollow tip is designed for accuracy not devastation.
> 
> ...


 
P,
It is not really a hollow point, but simply a small void where the round was rolled to a point then trimmed.  The M118LR (7.62 NATO) has a 175 grain Sierra Boat Tail Hollow Point.


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## pardus (Jul 26, 2010)

Freefalling said:


> What's the weight of the round?.



From the article... 


> The projectile incorporates these improvements without adding weight


 


The91Bravo said:


> P,
> It is not really a hollow point, but simply a small void where the round was rolled to a point then trimmed.  The M118LR (7.62 NATO) has a 175 grain Sierra Boat Tail Hollow Point.


 
Thanks for that. On impact it does act as a hollow point correct?


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## AWP (Jul 26, 2010)

Thank you, Pardus. When I read it I was looking for a number. When I re-read it I looked for a number. Journalists are supposed to print lies and numbers to make it easier to understand their point.


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## pardus (Jul 26, 2010)

Freefalling said:


> Thank you, Pardus. When I read it I was looking for a number. When I re-read it I looked for a number. Journalists are supposed to print lies and numbers to make it easier to understand their point.


 
LOL, you know what, so was I! I honestly don't know what the weight of the current round is... I was hoping you or someone else would.


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## AWP (Jul 27, 2010)

pardus said:


> LOL, you know what, so was I! I honestly don't know what the weight of the current round is... I was hoping you or someone else would.



Used Google on my Internet machine, 62 gr.


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## Cabbage Head (Jul 27, 2010)

pardus said:


> Thanks for that. On impact it does act as a hollow point correct?



No it doesnt.  It is a wonderful target round.  The down side is it flies right through the target too and if its flesh and blood, it goes on until it hits something (or someone) and is eventually stoped.

This is one reason why LEO shooters are more and more switching from this type of round and moving towards something that has good penetration and expansion (kinda like Hornady TAP).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 27, 2010)

With the ranges and type of terrain our troops are fighting in A-stan, I would think the Army would have sent....

MK262 
http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/black-hills-mk-262-mod-1

or

MK318
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/usmc-adopts-new-open-tip-sost-5-56-ammo/


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## 8'Duece (Jul 27, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> With the ranges and type of terrain our troops are fighting in A-stan, I would think the Army would have sent....
> 
> MK262
> http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/black-hills-mk-262-mod-1
> ...



The Mk262 has a proven combat track record.  Why not just issue it ?  77 grain BTHT. Case closed, great ammo, but no ? :uhh:  

Oh, that would be too easy and some politician that is in bed with the ammo manufacturer wouldn't get his pork bill that was added to another bill signed into law.


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## pardus (Jul 27, 2010)

So help me out here, is the M855 another name for the SS109 round?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 27, 2010)

pardus said:


> So help me out here, is the M855 another name for the SS109 round?


 
M855 is the round, SS109 is the type of bullet (i.e. 62gr Steel penatrator). 

M193 is still in use, but it's hardly effective with out a slower twist rate. It was kind of like the AK74, in the effect that the slow twist rate (1/12) matched with M193 would cause the bullet to tumble once it struck something. The down fall was that the distance was limited to effective at 300m, where the Army and USMC wanted greater range and the ability to punch through walls and some forms of cover. The M855 was developed for this and the M856 (tracer) was also matched up with a 1/7 twist rate barrel. The 1/7 was picked over the 1/8 and 1/9 due to the M856 round needing a faster twist rate. Thus giving the M16(A2) the effective range of 500+m.

The sad part is the barrel twist was selected on a tracer round that is hardly to be used in the rifle. If they would have said fuck the tracer and gone with a 1/8 or 1/9 twist matched with a 55gr to 77gr  match bullet we would have gotten the distance needed and they could have developed a special AP round for punching through cover.

Personally I think the best match up for Infantry type units would be the current issue M4 with MK262 Mod 1, punching through walls and cover can be done with MG's (AP round) and M203's (HEDP). Kind of the whole don't drive a screw with a hammer deal (right tool for the job). 

As for the SOF side I would not know what would work good for them, but I would guess they would need the best of all worlds in a small package (multiple round selection).


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## pardus (Jul 27, 2010)

Cool, Thanks JAB!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 27, 2010)

One other thing, the histroy that you posted is not right.

Mainly here



> M855 NATO 5.56mm ball cartridge: Introduced as a replacement for the M193 cartridge, the M855 fires a heavier projectile with greater accuracy. While the cartridge was designed to be fired from the newer heavy barreled M-16A2 assault rifle and M-4 carbine (each of which has a 1 in 7 twist barrel)* it may be fired out of older M-16* models without severe degradation of accuracy. The M855 can be identified by its green painted tip.



If you fire the M855 through a 1/10 twist or higher (like the M16A1 1/12) the round is only effective to 90m and tumbles as soon as it leaves the muzzle.

From FM3-22.9 Chapter 2



> 2-11. AMMUNITION TYPES AND CHARACTERISTICS
> This paragraph provides information on different types of standard military ammunition used in the M16-/M4-series weapons (Figure 2-42). Use only authorized ammunition manufactured to U.S. and NATO specifications. (Figures 2-43 through 2-47 show ammunition trajectory data.)
> 
> a.   Cartridge, 5.56-mm, Ball, M193. The M193 cartridge is a center-fire cartridge with a 55-grain, gilded metal-jacketed, lead alloy core bullet. The M193 round is the standard cartridge for field use with the M16A1 rifle and has no identifying marks (1, Figure 2-42).
> ...


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## 8'Duece (Jul 27, 2010)

If your looking to purchase the M855 ammunition it is listed as "Lake City SS109 62 grain 5.56mm" 

It is also has the green tip.


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## pardus (Jul 27, 2010)

J.A.B. said:


> One other thing, the histroy that you posted is not right.
> 
> Mainly here


 
Thank you, I deleted the offending post, I don't want info posted here that isn't correct.


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## 275ANGER! (Jul 28, 2010)

Visuals:

View attachment 12720 View attachment 12721

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ues-new-m855a1-ammo-to-troops-in-afghanistan/


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## pardus (Jul 28, 2010)

*Corps to use more lethal ammo in Afghanistan*

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/02/marine_SOST_ammo_021510w/




> By Dan Lamothe - Staff writer
> Posted : Tuesday Feb 16, 2010 9:29:10 EST
> 
> The Marine Corps is dropping its conventional 5.56mm ammunition in Afghanistan in favor of new deadlier, more accurate rifle rounds, and could field them at any time.
> ...



View attachment 12722


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