# Ding Dong, the Surge is Dead



## AWP (Sep 20, 2012)

So the surge is over it seems. I know I feel like real progress was made, like 30K troops were the deciding factor in a record more substantial than the '72 Dolphins. Now the Afghans can take charge of their country and enjoy decades of American-like peace and prosperity.

I can't continue to type such garbage, so here's the link to the story and a list of words beginning with the letter "S."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/world/asia/afghanistan-us-troops/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


sabaton
sabbatarian
sabbulonarium
sabelline
sabin
sable
sabliere
sabot
sabot
sabretache
sabulous
saburration
saccade
saccadic
sacchariferous
saccharimeter
sacciferous
sacciform
saccular
sacculiform
sacerdotal
sacerdotalism
sachet
sack
sackbut
sacralgia
sacralized
sacramentarianism
sacrarium
sacring
sacristan
sacristy
sadogue
saeculum
saffron
sagathy
sagene
sageship
saggar
saginate
sagittal
sagittary
sagittiform


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## Chopstick (Sep 20, 2012)

If this is the case..how is it that everyone I know is there?


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## AWP (Sep 20, 2012)

We're surgeless or presurge or extrasurge or abovesurge or something.

I live here, everyone else is a tourist.

(That was funny until I read it again. Now I'm depressed.)


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## x SF med (Sep 20, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> We're surgeless or presurge or extrasurge or abovesurge or something.
> 
> I live here, everyone else is a tourist.
> 
> (That was funny until I read it again. Now I'm depressed.)


 
Do you need WCM cookies? I know this cookie baker....  :-";)

And I found a resupply on Anti-Monkey Butt powder.


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## Ranger Psych (Sep 21, 2012)

I'll contribute with another toy for your desk if it'll help, as well.


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## Centermass (Sep 21, 2012)

Nothing like speaking VOLUMES about tenacity, determination, resolve on top of everything else recently by reducing the inventory.

I have this image of Karzai waking up one morning, all by himself, with absolutely no one else there, and on the horizon, mr taly bahn, al cue and all their buddies, heading his way.

The whole place seems destined on being placed in self destruct mode. In the mean time, Omar is licking his chops while waiting in the wings.


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## goon175 (Sep 22, 2012)

Roadmap to success in Afghanistan:

Step 1: Bring electricity to the entire country
Step 2: Give every afghan a TV
Step 3: Give every afghan a PS3/Xbox/whatever with games
Step 4: Victory ( no one left to fight, they are all inside trying to beat the game)


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## AWP (Sep 22, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Roadmap to success in Afghanistan:
> 
> Step 1: Bring electricity to the entire country
> Step 2: Give every afghan a TV
> ...


 
About 2 months into my first trip here in 2004 I told people we shouldn't try to bring democracy to this place, but WalMart. I was laughed at, people thought that was me being my usual sarcastic self.

A handful of Super WalMarts would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than the surge...and I'm dead serious about WalMart vs democracy in this place.


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## RackMaster (Sep 22, 2012)

Every jingle truck is a rolling Walmart.   I've never seen so many fridges stacked like Jenga in my life.


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## pardus (Sep 25, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> About 2 months into my first trip here in 2004 I told people we shouldn't try to bring democracy to this place, but WalMart. I was laughed at, people thought that was me being my usual sarcastic self.
> 
> A handful of Super WalMarts would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than the surge...and I'm dead serious about WalMart vs democracy in this place.


 
Agreed. I said years ago that we could have won the cold war with a western supermarket in every Soviet block city.

Actually a pharmacy/drug store would probably have better results than a Walmart. Though Walmart has those too so....


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## Marauder06 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm all about economic diplomacy and soft power, but it wouldn't work in Afghanistan.  We could have pulled it off in a place like North Korea or Russia, where the people are kept in check by the state, but it won't work in Afghanistan because there is no security.  Wal-Mart would be another pile of flaming rubble, right beside the girls' school, the community well, and a litany of other development projects we tried over there.

If the state has no security, it has nothing.


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## DA SWO (Sep 25, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm all about economic diplomacy and soft power, but it wouldn't work in Afghanistan. We could have pulled it off in a place like North Korea or Russia, where the people are kept in check by the state, but it won't work in Afghanistan because there is no security. Wal-Mart would be another pile of flaming rubble, right beside the girls' school, the community well, and a litany of other development projects we tried over there.
> 
> If the state has no security, it has nothing.


But Wal Mart would work in Cuba.
I have long believed that lifting he embargo and flooding Cuba with consumer goods would cause that government to fail in a matter of months.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 25, 2012)

SOWT said:


> But Wal Mart would work in Cuba.
> I have long believed that lifting he embargo and flooding Cuba with consumer goods would cause that government to fail in a matter of months.


 
I agree with that.  Plus our corporations would make more money.  After the fall of the Soviet Union, I really don't see the need for us to have bad relations with Cuba.  It's not like our economic embargo has caused their economy to fail and the government to be overthrown after all this time.  Let our soft power in and see what happens.  The worst thing is, we make money.  The best thing is, the Cubans decide "enough of this Communist shit, let's make some money" and they eventually go democratic.

If we open up trade with them, maybe we can ship them all of our used Che t-shirts.


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## reed11b (Sep 25, 2012)

SOWT said:


> But Wal Mart would work in Cuba.
> I have long believed that lifting he embargo and flooding Cuba with consumer goods would cause that government to fail in a matter of months.


I have long believed in lifting all non-arms sanctions everywhere, period. They don't work and punish people more then governments. Yes, even to Iran.
Reed


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## DA SWO (Sep 25, 2012)

Iran is beyond hope, we had a chance and blew it.


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## reed11b (Sep 25, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Iran is beyond hope, we had a chance and blew it.


What good do you think the sanctions are doing? Any failure on the leadership can be blamed on "the evil Americans". Take away non-arms sanctions and it's a little harder to paint us as the boogiemen. Sanctions help authoritarian leaders stay in power. I'm not saying be friends, and if I were boss there are several times in recent history when I would have gladly kicked there teeth in. I still kinda hope to have a chance to kick there teeth in.
Reed


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## DA SWO (Sep 26, 2012)

reed11b said:


> What good do you think the sanctions are doing? Any failure on the leadership can be blamed on "the evil Americans". Take away non-arms sanctions and it's a little harder to paint us as the boogiemen. Sanctions help authoritarian leaders stay in power. I'm not saying be friends, and if I were boss there are several times in recent history when I would have gladly kicked there teeth in. I still kinda hope to have a chance to kick there teeth in.
> Reed


What sanctions are in effect against Iran?


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## reed11b (Sep 26, 2012)

SOWT said:


> What sanctions are in effect against Iran?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._sanctions_against_Iran

The banking and oil are the big non-military sanctions. Again, yes they hurt the Iranian economy, but I feel that hurts the citizens more then it hurts the government. I am not a fan of sanctions period. They are used in place of meaningful action and are a politicians tool. Kinda like "get tough on crime" laws that we know don't work, but voters go for them anyway, 'cause they are doing "something".  My 2cents.
Reed


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## DA SWO (Sep 26, 2012)

reed11b said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._sanctions_against_Iran
> 
> The banking and oil are the big non-military sanctions. Again, yes they hurt the Iranian economy, but I feel that hurts the citizens more then it hurts the government. I am not a fan of sanctions period. They are used in place of meaningful action and are a politicians tool. Kinda like "get tough on crime" laws that we know don't work, but voters go for them anyway, 'cause they are doing "something". My 2cents.
> Reed


 
Iran is selling oil to China (and others) and I doubt they have a hard time finding markets.
I think the sanctions are used to justify not providing consumer goods to the population as a whole ( as they can always go to China).
FWIW- Iranian oil was finding (may still be happening) it's way onto our markets via "oil exchange", something the oil companies and politicians don't want discussed.

I don't have a problem with the banking sanctions as that impacts their support of terrorists/terrorism.

They can buy new (or used) airplanes from Airbus (or the Russians), so the aviation sanctions thing also has a work around.

A lot of Americans have been killed/maimed by Iranian designed/developed EFP's, so getting me to agree on lifting these sanctions will probably not happen.


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## pardus (Sep 26, 2012)

SOWT said:


> Iran is beyond hope, we had a chance and blew it.


 
I disagree. I think Iran has potential for a western backed insurgency. There are a lot of pro western Iranians and they, with the right backing could replace the current retards in charge.
We would have to be smart about it though and sadly the US doesn't have a good track record in that regard.


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## DA SWO (Sep 26, 2012)

pardus said:


> I disagree. I think Iran has potential for a western backed insurgency. There are a lot of pro western Iranians and they, with the right backing could replace the current retards in charge.
> We would have to be smart about it though and sadly the US doesn't have a good track record in that regard.


POTUS sat on his butt when the students protested the election results.  Another chance may not come for a long time.
We (the US) blew it.


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## pardus (Sep 26, 2012)

SOWT said:


> POTUS sat on his butt when the students protested the election results. Another chance may not come for a long time.
> We (the US) blew it.


 
I hope you are wrong Brother. I don't want to go to war with them.


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## Texas_Medic (Sep 29, 2012)

pardus said:


> I hope you are wrong Brother. I don't want to go to war with them.


 
Ditto, let them take care of it while we drink beer and tend to all the other small brush fires.


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