# Needing Some Advice



## JrodBones (Jun 8, 2015)

I have posted in here a few times. My goals have changed a couple of times and I have ran into some roadblocks along the way. Now, after many years I think I have a plan of action and need some advice.

Quick background: work civilian probation, BS degree in security, Marine reserves, about 9 years, non-combat MOS (fuels and MCMAP instructor), NO deployments.

I want to switch over to the Army. I'm working with a recruiter for EOD in the guard. However, I am interested in SOF and always have been. So naturally I am heavily considering NG SF with the 19th Group out of CA.

I am wondering if I should go all in and try my hardest at 18X or if it would be best for me and the unit to go EOD, get a little experience with a deployment  and THEN go for it??? Not to mention I know I need to improve my rucking and land nav skills and can do that for a year or less while in EOD then try to transfer. After talking with some guys here and at the unit I know deployments are not officially on the grading scale for selection; however, I feel that it may increase my chances and I'd have more to offer the team. But I could be wrong....so I'm seeking advice from guys who know firsthand.

Any info will help.

Thanks.


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## Viper1 (Jun 8, 2015)

JrodBones said:


> I have posted in here a few times. My goals have changed a couple of times and I have ran into some roadblocks along the way. Now, after many years I think I have a plan of action and need some advice.
> 
> Quick background: work civilian probation, BS degree in security, Marine reserves, about 9 years, non-combat MOS (fuels and MCMAP instructor), NO deployments.
> 
> ...



Let me save you from the resident bomb techs here: you're speaking about apples and oranges, and need to tread carefully.

Disclaimer: I am related to a bomb tech and know the arduous work he went through in preparation, the year-long EOD school, and two deployments with his EOD unit. 

EOD is a very proud, specific, small, and difficult profession.  "Initial success or catastrophic failure," and that is for those who make it through the school.  It is extremely mentally and physically difficult, in different ways from SFAS and the SFQC of course, but extremely difficult.  You have to be dedicated to studying morning, noon, and night.  My bomb tech relation felt like a mule in a coal mine for a year, went to school before the sun came up and the sun was down by the time he got out of study hall.  Something around 40 people started and 10-12 graduated.  Fast forward six years later, over a third of his graduating class is now listed as Killed in Action. 

For what it is worth, I only know of a couple guys who dropped out of the Q-course and went to EOD school.  They didn't make it.

EOD techs are worth their weight in gold, and they have suffered heavily over the last 15 years of war.  Given what I've told you, I'd say selected the EOD MOS and using it as a feeder to SFAS is a bad idea.  If you choose to enter EOD, you better be in it to win it for the long haul.  Same with SF.  Remember, I have said both are physically and mentally demanding.  Do not make the mistake of believing one is easier than the other. 

Take some time to think, train hard, and make a decision.


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## DA SWO (Jun 8, 2015)

You have 9 years in.  Doing both schools would take 3-4 additional years, 13 years and zero deployments as a mid to senior NCO?  Plus IMO you'd be a jack of all trades master of none. 

Something else to consider, your unit isn't obligated to release you, so  you'd have 13-15 years in when applying for the second MOS producing school.  I think you'd have to be a fucking superstar to get a unit to commit training dollars on someone who could retire 2-4 years after getting MOS Qualified.

Decide which one works for you and be the best you can be.  Deployment tempo is down, not gone.  I also think we will see another surge in deployments 2-3 years from now (maybe sooner).


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 8, 2015)

Either is a good thing to do... but both require 110% dedication to the job to be able to survive.  Both also don't really feed well skill-wise from one to the other. Both are actually high-speed by nature, but there's different levels of awesome within each career field...  pick which you think you would enjoy doing more, and focus.


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## JrodBones (Jun 9, 2015)

Gents,

Thank you all for your responses. I definitely appreciate all of the advice and I do take it to heart.

I'd like to clarify something though.  My question does not come from a place of arrogance and don't want anyone to think I'm taking the decision or either career field lightly. I fully understand the difficulties and commitments that come  with both. I am not looking at EOD as a "stepping stone" to SF at all. I would not treat an MOS of that caliper so flippantly.

However here are the points I'm taking into consideration for this decision:
-I would be perfectly happy and honored to do EOD for the remaining 11+ years of my military  career
It's an amazing career field and saves the lives of our military men and women.
-Knowing myself, I would always have that bug in my ear saying I should have at least tried for SOF.
-Injuries and non selects do happen in SFAS and SFQC....I would hate trying for SF and then get shipped to quarter master school in VA because I broke my leg or did not get selected.
-I assumed, and it may be ignorance on my part, that an SF unit would be able to benefit from having a EOD tech there
-If I do make the decision to try for SF, I want to give myself every positive thing that I can. I figured deployments would be something that would help, and what better experience than something like EOD?

Then again, maybe I'm way off which is why I'm turning here for advice.

If something like 35M and deploying with them would help as well then I am open to advice. I just figured if I never decided to try for SF or if I did try and did not make it that I would really love a career in EOD. And I'm lucky enough thay there's a NG unit in my state.

Thanks again. Please continue any advice. Also, part if the original question regarding a deployment being beneficial for selection remains unanswered.  Has anyone ever seen someone  get selected out of SFAS and go through SFQC with no deployment experience?


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## Viper1 (Jun 9, 2015)

JrodBones said:


> Gents,
> -I would be perfectly happy and honored to do EOD for the remaining 11+ years of my military  career
> It's an amazing career field and saves the lives of our military men and women.
> -Knowing myself, I would always have that bug in my ear saying I should have at least tried for SOF.
> ...



I think you've listed your priorities...you just need to realize it and go forward with it.  You'd be "happy" to attempt EOD school (honorable goal indeed), but you "always had this bug in your ear" about trying out for SF.  In other words, you've always wanted to do one job (thus priority #1), but would settle for attempting the other (thus priority #2).

Injuries do occur, but not at the rate most people envision.  In fact, I only saw three folks knocked out completely due to injury.  The other ten or so recovered and started later.  The course puts your body through the ringer but if you're in shape for it, you'll be just fine.  Injuries happen sometimes unexpectedly and during the weirdest events.  If you let your mind become fearful of injuries, you'll either get injured or you'll quit.  Trust me on that last point.

I think you misunderstood my point and the point of others.  The Engineers on SF teams can handle some EOD-style work themselves.  Anything beyond their scope of work (and believe me, we know when it is beyond our scope of work) and we always called in EOD support.  Furthermore, EOD is an extremely small branch and only a couple teams were lucky to have them attached or be co-located.  Both places I was at, our 18Cs were the closest thing to an "EOD-style asset" available.  If you decide on EOD branch, you should resolve to stay there, in my opinion.

EDIT: I'll hold any further comments, as the EOD specific skills belong to the resident bomb techs.  (BTW, I <3 EOD techs!)


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## x SF med (Jun 9, 2015)

Well, it's time to post these again...  see rule 7

*



			General Colin Powell's 13 Rules for Life
		
Click to expand...

*


> *Rule 1: It Ain’t as Bad as You Think!  It Will Look Better in the Morning!*
> 
> These are the words of a man and of a leader who has lived a few years.  It is true how many events that seem so devastating have in them the seeds of renewal if we look for them.  Give it some time and perspective.  You can deal with it!  You have made it this far!
> 
> ...



taken from https://managementisajourney.com/revisiting-colin-powells-13-rules-of-leadership/ originally published in Parade magazine many years ago.  Comments on the rules are from the originally published work.

IIRC there are now courses at USMA that work to put these rules into the toolbox of future officers.


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## JrodBones (Jun 9, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> Injuries do occur, but not at the rate most people envision.  In fact, I only saw three folks knocked out completely due to injury.  The other ten or so recovered and started later.  The course puts your body through the ringer but if you're in shape for it, you'll be just fine.  Injuries happen sometimes unexpectedly and during the weirdest events.  If you let your mind become fearful of injuries, you'll either get injured or you'll quit.  Trust me on that last point.



Viper1,
Thank you for your info and opinion. That is good to know. I assumed injuries were a regular and often occurrence, so that is good to know. When I did the Marine Martial Arts Instructors Course we lost about 20-25% of our course due to injuries and I would imagine SFAS is more challenging so just figured there'd be more injuries. I agree with your last point though. We had a guy quit due to bruised ribs end of week one and I ended up finishing with fractured ribs. So you're spot on.

I am also interested in 35M as well and was looking into CI/HUMINT in the Marine Corps. So that may be a route that is beneficial, would be an asset to a team and would be something I would enjoy doing if I ever decided not to go for SF. Also, I could do that without taking a position away from an EOD unit from someone who, without a doubt, plans to stay there for good.




x SF med said:


> Well, it's time to post these again...  see rule 7



x SF med. Thank you for your input as well. There is definitely a lot of good info in that post and I'll be sure to save that. I do want to clarify that I'm not looking for someone to make my decision for me. I just trust the opinion of many of the vets here and am looking for info and advice. In the end, I will be making my own decision, but I want to ensure I have all of the information I can so I make the right one. I know that I do not know everything so it is best to seek advice of those who are or have been where I want to be. Looking at the list again, I am definitely following #5

Through this discussion I have already realized things I have not before, so I appreciate it.

My main question is regarding getting selected without deployment experience. Do you feel no deployments will hinder my ability to be selected? Do you feel a deployment beforehand give me a better chance than going without one?

My thought process was that a deployment would help my possibility of selection. Therefore, I would enlist in an MOS that I would love and that would be beneficial to a team IF I got selected but would be honored to do even if it was what I ended up doing for the rest of my military career.


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## AWP (Jun 9, 2015)

JrodBones said:


> My main question is regarding getting selected without deployment experience. Do you feel no deployments will hinder my ability to be selected? Do you feel a deployment beforehand give me a better chance than going without one?



I can't see SF or EOD turning down someone without a deployment. Low density, high demand MOS' rarely (if ever) do that to start the process. Selection/ The Schoolhouse exist for just that function. If you want them, you'll have an opportunity.


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## x SF med (Jun 9, 2015)

JrodBones said:


> Viper1,
> Thank you for your info and opinion. That is good to know. I assumed injuries were a regular and often occurrence, so that is good to know. When I did the Marine Martial Arts Instructors Course we lost about 20-25% of our course due to injuries and I would imagine SFAS is more challenging so just figured there'd be more injuries. I agree with your last point though. We had a guy quit due to bruised ribs end of week one and I ended up finishing with fractured ribs. So you're spot on.
> 
> I am also interested in 35M as well and was looking into CI/HUMINT in the Marine Corps. So that may be a route that is beneficial, would be an asset to a team and would be something I would enjoy doing if I ever decided not to go for SF. Also, I could do that without taking a position away from an EOD unit from someone who, without a doubt, plans to stay there for good.
> ...



Ok...  you have been reading but not digesting.... posting and not paying attention to what you are saying to others.

Here is the key to damn near everything in life,  "Make informed decisions but don't overthink them.  Use your heart to follow your dreams, but be prepared for defeat/failure when you do.  Honor and self reliance will carry you through the majority of situations in your life.  Excellence is the desired end state, but perfection cannot be attained. "


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