# Military Bases



## LimaPanther (Jun 10, 2020)

And they now want to rename 10 Army bases. Benning and Hood are 2 of them. Problem is that a number of Generals are for it.


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## Dvr55119 (Jun 10, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> And they now want to rename 10 Army bases. Benning and Hood are 2 of them. Problem is that a number of Generals are for it.



Bragg is named after an absolutely shit general. 
Braxton Bragg - Wikipedia

Benning is named after a pretty piece of shit dude as well. 

Henry L. Benning - Wikipedia

While I didn’t particularly care while being in those places in the past. It bears looking into maybe renaming them. There is a fine history of great men that have passed through both locations and are not tarnished by being “ardent secessionists, and anti abolitionists”.


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## LimaPanther (Jun 10, 2020)

Only ones that should have any say on this should be present and past military. Civilians should have no input. I attended Benning for Jump School, Ranger School, and OCS. Can not relate to any other name.


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## Jaknight (Jun 10, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Bragg is named after an absolutely shit general.
> Braxton Bragg - Wikipedia
> 
> Benning is named after a pretty piece of shit dude as well.
> ...


I read somewhere that when the southerners wanted to name the forts after confederate soldiers congress made them pick from the biggest losers. Not sure if true


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 10, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Bragg is named after an absolutely shit general.
> Braxton Bragg - Wikipedia
> 
> Benning is named after a pretty piece of shit dude as well.
> ...



How do I put this...naming the bases was a part of the reconciliation process.  If we actually want to enflame racial tensions in the South, places that have been relatively peaceful compared to the North, you do that stupidity.  

The Army has been shit with preserving its history, joining in on cancel culture should not be something it is a part of.


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## racing_kitty (Jun 11, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I read somewhere that when the southerners wanted to name the forts after confederate soldiers congress made them pick from the biggest losers. Not sure if true


I’m not sure if that was the logic behind the naming conventions, but who knows?

 I remember being stationed at Hood as a private, and researching who the post was named for. Gen. John Bell Hood was a colossal fuck-up of a flag officer. I never understood why they’d name the largest Army post after a guy who had the tactical acumen of French toast.


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## Polar Bear (Jun 11, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Bragg is named after an absolutely shit general.
> Braxton Bragg - Wikipedia
> 
> Benning is named after a pretty piece of shit dude as well.
> ...


And how hard did you dig to find that? Shit you where born the year I graduated HS, went to Benning 2 years after that. You had no idea about these names. People need to give it a rest, if people would treat the people they run into everyday better the world would be a better place......not some name or statue to worry about. That is history, that is what we came from, a reminder we have to do better!


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## RackMaster (Jun 11, 2020)

It's not just an American thing now.  The Western world has gone full tilt 1984, erasing history.

  Here in Canada, they are pushing for renaming streets and I've heard about some towns.  They went all out after our first Prime Minister last year.   

Call to rename Toronto’s Dundas Street gets renewed attention with anti-racism protests

In the UK, there's a list of statues and monuments that the angry mobs are planning on taking down.  Government help or not. 

The 78 monuments at risk of being torn down by anti-racism campaigners


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## Devildoc (Jun 11, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Bragg is named after an absolutely shit general.
> Braxton Bragg - Wikipedia
> 
> Benning is named after a pretty piece of shit dude as well.
> ...



There's also Ft. Lee and Ft. Rucker and Ft. Gordon, who were pretty good generals.  Some of these guys did pretty good things before the war and after the war.

I am not 'Army' so I don't have a dog in the fight, and I am ambivalent about the issue.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

I remember seeing a story a few years ago about a push to rename Fort Hood to Fort Benavidez; if the army wants to rename bases, let's just make it MOH winners then.


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## LimaPanther (Jun 11, 2020)

Thought the possible renaming of Army Bases might need its own thread as it appears Congress is really looking into doing it. 

The bases they are planning on renaming are:
                Virginia: Fort Lee, Fort Pickett, and Fort A.P. Hill (Reserve/NG training base)
                NC:  Fort Bragg
                GA:  Fort Benning, Fort Gordon
                AL:   Fort Rucker
                LA:   Fort Polk, Fort Beauregard (NG Training Base)
                TX:  Fort Hood


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## racing_kitty (Jun 11, 2020)

As I’ve mentioned in another post, I could never wrap my head around the fact that one post in particular was named after a flag officer whose incompetence could rival Custer’s (confederate alignment notwithstanding). Hood was an idiot. I’d have zero compunction for advocating for the renaming of Ft. Hood.

I’m still hashing through my thoughts on  renaming the others.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

This probably does deserve it's own thread, so good idea.

I've no issues with renaming bases; I think the best suggestion I've seen is to name bases after MOH recipients from that state/influential to that base.

Fort Hood--<Fort Benavidez is a good one.

I'll come back on my lunch break and give some examples of other ones.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 11, 2020)

Here is a thoughtful piece on the subject, written by an SF officer whom many of you know.



> As citizens across the United States unite against racism and injustice, it is time for military leaders to match actions with their words. A true first step towards reconciling America’s systemic injustices towards our black citizens is to rename the military bases named after Confederate generals. In doing so, the military will send a clear message that it honors our Army values and reverses the hypocritical “spirit of reconciliation” excuse that the Army has defended for so long.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jun 11, 2020)

You can name Ft Hood whatever you want. but as soon as you pull on post, you will still be in da HOOD...🤣


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## LimaPanther (Jun 11, 2020)

Being that all of these bases are considered in the south I am afraid of what the fallout, from not only present and former military personnel that look at them as home, but also the civilian community around them will be. Also the backlash from the states they are in. The cost also that would be involved to make the change.


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## Devildoc (Jun 11, 2020)

Lee and Rucker have significance beyond their role for the confederacy.  Those are not so cut and dry.  Being not army, I am ambivalent, and see the argument on both sides.


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## Jaknight (Jun 11, 2020)

I understand the need to change the names but I feel it should be done because we want to not because of some angry Mob. That being said If names are changed they should be union generals.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 11, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Here is a thoughtful piece on the subject, written by an SF officer whom many of you know.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 34363



Those are all pretty good recommendations. I've come up with a few I'd like to throw out there. I have nothing for Polk or Beauregard yet.

Fort Lee to Fort Carney

Born a slave in Norfolk, VA, William Carney would go on to serve with the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Regiment, and become the 1st African-American awarded the MOH. Remember the movie Glory? Morgan Freeman played him.

Fort A.P. Hill to Fort Gregory
The first (of two) Virginia National Guardsmen to receive the MOH, for actions during WW1.
SGT Gregory single-handedly captured a machine gun nest, a howitzer, and 22 enemy soldiers.

Fort Pickett to Fort Walker
Mary Walker was a surgeon employed by the Union Army, who was present at the first battle of bull run and the battle of Fredericksburg. She was captured crossing enemy lines to help civilians, and served time in Richmond as a POW. Also, the only woman ever awarded the MOH.

Fort Bragg to Fort Shugart
I think everyone here is probably aware of this story. Honestly, the Army could just announce the are renaming Fort Gordon for Gary Gordon and I'd approve of that.

Fort Rucker was harder. I'd go with either 
Fort Crandall or Fort Novosel, both army aviators who received the MOH for medevac missions during Vietnam.

Fort Benning to Fort Cashe
Not a MOH recipient (yet), but his story highlights everything selfless service and being a NCO should be. I'm not going to do a rundown of the article here, just read it.


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## Florida173 (Jun 11, 2020)

If we rename everything to something else, will it be over?


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## DasBoot (Jun 11, 2020)

I could care less at this point. All I consider is the cost of changing all the signs, changing addresses for soldiers living on post, etc.

What it comes down to for me is this- some people are talking about “history” and “fond memories” and the “meaning” behind the names.
I believe it was the Press Secretary who referenced KIA soldiers who left those posts and that was the last time they were in America...

Fuck all that. The memories I have  are my friends. I’m committed to the Army, not a single post.

Frankly, Fort Benning blows. I have plenty of meaningful but miserable memories there. So call it what you want. I’ll always know it as The Land God Forgot. Cole Range isn’t getting renamed,Camp Rogers is still out there, all the misery and history of those places is still there.

Most of us have been to Polk at some point, right? Who cares what it’s called. JRTC is going to still be a rape of the soul. Who cares what we call it.

Let’s leave the “lost cause” narrative, stop celebrating the confederacy and just call it something else. I’m tired of this conversation.


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## Bypass (Jun 11, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I understand the need to change the names but I feel it should be done because we want to not because of some angry Mob. That being said If names are changed they should be union generals.


I think Medal of Honor winners. Change Ft Benning to Ft Audie Murphy.

So Ft Murphy........................................Wait....................


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## AWP (Jun 11, 2020)

As a Southerner raied on the "Lost Cause" and with some 8-10 known ancestors who fought in the war for the South...change the names, but don't be political about it. Look at what the Navy has done with naming ships...just absolute sell outs IMO. We don't need a Fort Reagan or Fort Bush or whatever, we have plenty of generals and MOH winners to choose from.

There will be "dead naming" and we need to accept that. The names, not the men they came from, will mean something to many soldiers. That's fine. If some old timer and hell, I'm in that group, calls it Benning instead of a new name...don't correct us. Roll with it. In time, we'll die off and the names in use by the masses with adjust accordingly. The worst thing you can do after changing the names will be to correct the guys and gals who still call them Benning, Bragg, etc.

I would take issue with Union generals though. No Grants or Shermans, please. Sherman was basically a war criminal anyway, so if we're going to have a conversation about the past while using present social values, we need to be honest with ourselves.

The changes can be done and quite easily if we keep politics out of the process. Politics and social justice can kick it off and then they need to sit this one out.


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## DasBoot (Jun 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> As a Southerner raied on the "Lost Cause" and with some 8-10 known ancestors who fought in the war for the South...change the names, but don't be political about it. Look at what the Navy has done with naming ships...just absolute sell outs IMO. We don't need a Fort Reagan or Fort Bush or whatever, we have plenty of generals and MOH winners to choose from.
> 
> There will be "dead naming" and we need to accept that. The names, not the men they came from, will mean something to many soldiers. That's fine. If some old timer and hell, I'm in that group, calls it Benning instead of a new name...don't correct us. Roll with it. In time, we'll die off and the names in use by the masses with adjust accordingly. The worst thing you can do after changing the names will be to correct the guys and gals who still call them Benning, Bragg, etc.
> 
> ...


Best option? Rename Benning Ft. (Alwyn) Cashe. A black man who fully deserves the MOH. Who served, on that post, as an infantry DS. That would be badass. And a step to upgrading that Silver Star.

ETA- I’ll always call it benning. I had no idea until recently that it was named after a confederate general. That wonderfully awful place can be called “Fort Bernard Sanders” and it wont change my memories.


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## Florida173 (Jun 12, 2020)

I was under the impression that they were so named during the aftermath of the Civil War to rebuild and reconcile. Sort of like how all Confederate soldiers were pardoned and given amnesty. Suddenly and randomly we are going to change it because reasons. For the sake of making everyone happy.. Any installations named after dead female service members? make sure we find some dead gay and trans ones also. Unless they are only pandering to blacks for now.

That being said.. I don't care. I wasn't really all that found of Civil War history so didn't know that my time at Ft. Benning and Ft. Bragg was keeping the memory of "traitors" fighting for slavery alive.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jun 12, 2020)

Hate to be a stick in the mud, but our generals need to go back to warfighting. The fact that we have GO's bickering about post names is pathetic. This is a perfect example of why/how our enemies mock us behind our backs.

While DC demagogues and our GO's bicker about social justice, our enemies are quietly building their capabilities and causing havoc. Eventually they're gonna find an edge on us and we won't be sitting pretty anymore.


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## AWP (Jun 12, 2020)

We may want to go ahead and add Fort Jackson to that list once people realize Andrew's track record with the American Indig. wasn't the best. For that matter, who else will draw the protestors' ire?

I have zero issue with renaming and stand by my post above, but the slippery slope also has a few mines.


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## Devildoc (Jun 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I was under the impression that they were so named during the aftermath of the Civil War to rebuild and reconcile. Sort of like how all Confederate soldiers were pardoned and given amnesty. Suddenly and randomly we are going to change it because reasons. For the sake of making everyone happy.. Any installations named after dead female service members? make sure we find some dead gay and trans ones also. Unless they are only pandering to blacks for now.
> 
> That being said.. I don't care. I wasn't really all that found of Civil War history so didn't know that my time at Ft. Benning and Ft. Bragg was keeping the memory of "traitors" fighting for slavery alive.



It's not like they were named in 1865, days after the civil war.  Ft. Bragg did not exist as a base until 1918.

@AWP , we did have a Ft. Sherman, right?  Panama Canal Zone?


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## Steve1839 (Jun 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> We may want to go ahead and add Fort Jackson to that list once people realize Andrew's track record with the American Indig. wasn't the best. For that matter, who else will draw the protestors' ire?


Kit Carson didn't get along terribly well with the Navajo, although he did have great respect and admiration for the Utes...Sheridan was no fan of the indig either, but I don't know if Fort Sheridan is closed or not...I suspect you could go down the list of most senior officers in the previous two centuries and find something objectionable, although I wouldn't mind seeing Roscoe Robinson's name assigned to a post...maybe naming installations for Medal of Honor recipients is the way to go...


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 12, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Here is a thoughtful piece on the subject, written by an SF officer whom many of you know.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 34363



This is a le sigh for me.  This naming of bases after Confederate Generals wasn't any hypocritical spirit of reconciliation.  America in 1860 wasn't what it was in 2000.  America of 1910 was still not what it was in 2000.  We had a generation of men who harbored much discontent for just having their lives split apart.  You have to remember, something like 99% of Confederate Soldiers owned no slaves.  The majority of men who fought for the Confederacy were poor people.

This is a very nuanced issue and we're boiling it down to that?

*I will state this as a graduate of VMI, there are some really shithead people campaigning for the felling of Jackson's statue.  This I will not abide.



Steve1839 said:


> Kit Carson didn't get along terribly well with the Navajo, although he did have great respect and admiration for the Utes...Sheridan was no fan of the indig either, but I don't know if Fort Sheridan is closed or not...I suspect you could go down the list of most senior officers in the previous two centuries and find something objectionable, although I wouldn't mind seeing Roscoe Robinson's name assigned to a post...maybe naming installations for Medal of Honor recipients is the way to go...



Fort Sheridan closed in 1993 as an Active Duty installation, much of the land was sold off, historic base housing was renovated and then sold. Within the Fort Sheridan historic district of Chicago there's the Philip H. Sheridan Reserve Center and the Fort Sheridan Forest Preserve.


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## SOSTCRNA (Jun 12, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Best option? Rename Benning Ft. (Alwyn) Cashe. A black man who fully deserves the MOH. Who served, on that post, as an infantry DS. That would be badass. And a step to upgrading that Silver Star.
> 
> ETA- I’ll always call it benning. I had no idea until recently that it was named after a confederate general. That wonderfully awful place can be called “Fort Bernard Sanders” and it wont change my memories.


Thread drift  but hard agree, the fact that Cashe doesn’t have the MOH is a travesty.


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## Grunt (Jun 13, 2020)

No matter how hard one tries, history cannot be erased by the changing of a name or the tearing down of a statue. People need to learn their history and either choose to repeat it or use it as an example of what not to do or how not to be. 

That is the sign of being a mature adult, but hey...it's often easier to go through life throwing tantrums and acting like a child if you don't get your way.


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## Florida173 (Jun 13, 2020)

Seishin said:


> No matter how hard one tries, history cannot be erased by the changing of a name or the tearing down of a statue. People need to learn their history and either choose to repeat it or use it as an example of what not to do or how not to be.
> 
> That is the sign of being a mature adult, but hey...it's often easier to go through life throwing tantrums and acting like a child if you don't get your way.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 16, 2020)

A benefit I've found of this whole thing is how this is bringing forth the history of a bunch of worthy NCOs and Officers I haven't had the opportunity to learn about yet.


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## DasBoot (Jun 16, 2020)

Here’s an option I thought of- as I sit on Ft. Stewart, quarantined in 3rd ID barracks.

Just name posts after their fucking divisions.Stewart becomes Fort Marne. Bragg can be Ft. pine land/all-American/airborne/billy Waugh.

There are so many ways to name these places in a more accurate way- reflecting their current identities, culture and recent history- the names just go on. It’s not hard.


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## Kaldak (Jun 16, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> It’s not hard



I wish and agree, but...politicians.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Here’s an option I thought of- as I sit on Ft. Stewart, quarantined in 3rd ID barracks.
> 
> Just name posts after their fucking divisions.Stewart becomes Fort Marne. Bragg can be Ft. pine land/all-American/airborne/billy Waugh.
> 
> There are so many ways to name these places in a more accurate way- reflecting their current identities, culture and recent history- the names just go on. It’s not hard.



Good idea.  Or maybe we can name them after Army Values or something.


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## Kaldak (Jun 16, 2020)

Ft Honor, Ft Courage, etc


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## Kraut783 (Jun 16, 2020)

Fort Safety Belt   / Fort Reflective


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## DasBoot (Jun 16, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Good idea.  Or maybe we can name them after Army Values or something.


That’s just lame, sir.

My logic is- name then for something that people “know the post for.” I forgot the “Army Values” after basic/AIT. I don’t know the Soldiers creed anymore, either- mainly because that “Creed” is 11 years younger than I am.

I’m talking about something real, long-standing- something the post is known for. I would rather name them after MOH recipients, but seeing as SFC Cash Still hasn’t been honored with that award, it wouldn’t make sense to rename Benning after him (yet).


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## Florida173 (Jun 16, 2020)

People will get demonized. What happens when we find out that fort (random MOH recipient)'s family had slaves?


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## Kaldak (Jun 16, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> People will get demonized. What happens when we find out that fort (random MOH recipient)'s family had slaves?



Sad, but true. Shouldn't matter, but someone will probably make it matter.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> That’s just lame, sir.
> 
> My logic is- name then for something that people “know the post for.” I forgot the “Army Values” after basic/AIT. I don’t know the Soldiers creed anymore, either- mainly because that “Creed” is 11 years younger than I am.
> 
> I’m talking about something real, long-standing- something the post is known for. I would rather name them after MOH recipients, but seeing as SFC Cash Still hasn’t been honored with that award, it wouldn’t make sense to rename Benning after him (yet).



"Army values are lame." Got it.

Look, we're a values-based organization.  If we name things after immutable values, then we don't have to go through revisionism every 30 years,...


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## DasBoot (Jun 16, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> "Army values are lame." Got it.
> 
> Look, we're a values-based organization.  If we name things after immutable values, then we don't have to go through revisionism every 30 years,...


Fair point.

The Army Values only came about in 1995 (3 years younger than I am). That isn’t a long lasting tradition. Do I support Loyalty Duty Respect Selfless service Honor Integrity Personal courage? Of course. Those are things any descent human, and more importantly anyone in the 5 (6 if you count Coast Guard) Uniformed Services should believe in.

The reason I don’t “take them to heart?” Well... that’s been created in the last 25 years. If you’ve recited it in basic... it sounds fake And like us copying the Marines.

Marines have us beat- the Marine Hymn has been around far longer. It doesn’t sound like a GO created it. The Soliders Creed was written by Gen. Shinseki. The Beret Guy.

I don’t take that seriously. I do take the various Army divisions individual songs and traditions seriously. Even if I’m not part of those units.

Name posts after post WW2 or Vietnam history. Name them after what they specialize in. Don’t name them after an Army Values system I fully expect to be changed in the next 10 years.


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## Kaldak (Jun 16, 2020)

Because something was laid out concretely recently makes it less true?

You're telling me as a member of the armed services, you, don't take things like honor, courage, respect, loyalty and so forth seriously? That's sad.


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 16, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Fair point.
> 
> The Army Values only came about in 1995 (3 years younger than I am). That isn’t a long lasting tradition. Do I support Loyalty Duty Respect Selfless service Honor Integrity Personal courage? Of course. Those are things any descent human, and more importantly anyone in the 5 (6 if you count Coast Guard) Uniformed Services should believe in.
> 
> ...



Cmon man.

Eric Shinseki, you mean three bronze stars for valor and two purples hearts Shinseki?  That guy was much more than "The Beret Guy."

The "Caisson Song" although adopted after every one else has been a song sung by Soldiers for over 100 years in our Army.

I've previously opined that the US Army has been horrible with preserving its history.  For whatever reason, the Marine Corps is the best at it.  The Navy at least kept their uniforms for enlisted sailors.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 16, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Because something was laid out concretely recently makes it less true?
> 
> You're telling me as a member of the armed services, you, don't take things like honor, courage, respect, loyalty and so forth seriously? That's sad.



He's not saying that he doesn't take those values seriously; he's saying that they sound very "manufactured by committee" as opposed to something that's actually based in tradition. It's the same thing with how many jr. Soldiers feel that the Soldier's Creed sounds like a very forced thing (also a Shineski thing).

I think it may just be a case of these things being so recent that some of us find them eye rolling as opposed to endearing.

ETA: I dont mean any disrespect to Gen Shineski, just pointing that out as another thing he played a part in to change Army culture


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## DasBoot (Jun 17, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Because something was laid out concretely recently makes it less true?
> 
> You're telling me as a member of the armed services, you, don't take things like honor, courage, respect, loyalty and so forth seriously? That's sad.


I just said I did...



DasBoot said:


> Do I support Loyalty Duty Respect Selfless service Honor Integrity Personal courage? Of course



@Cookie_ came in to clarify before I could. It seems pre packaged, it seems fake, and it sounds like shit compared to the Ranger Creed and The Army Song.


ThunderHorse said:


> Cmon man.
> 
> Eric Shinseki, you mean three bronze stars for valor and two purples hearts Shinseki?  That guy was much more than "The Beret Guy."



Awards are not a cover for poor decisions. Gen. Shinseki may have a solid combat record, it still doesn’t make his decisions as a G.O. infallible.

You said it yourself in the “All Things Wrong” thread... 



> I've been enraged that McRaven has opened his mouth. He's definitely an opinion that I'd listen to even less.



That’s a two time Bronze Star recipient and former SMU member. I guess he’s as infallible as Gen Shinseki.


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## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

People would believe more in the Soldier's Creed if soldiers and especially their leaders actually...followed that creed. It is manufactured hype; an ad campaign. It sounds forced, sterile, bland, like it came from a coporate boardroom instead of a battlefield. The Ranger Creed and NCO Creed...those have souls. The Soldier's Creed reads like it should be on a poster of a sunrise in a back office of Dunder Mifflin.



ThunderHorse said:


> I've previously opined that the US Army has been horrible with preserving its history.  For whatever reason, the Marine Corps is the best at it.  The Navy at least kept their uniforms for enlisted sailors.



100% agree. The Army has an amazing opportunity to change this right now...and does anyone want to take bets on how poorly this will go?


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## Devildoc (Jun 17, 2020)

I mean, are they really "forts" anymore?  How about 'Columbus Army Base', 'Fayetteville Army Base,'.  That'll work right up until someone reads a Wiki page that Mr. Fayetteville was related to a man who kicked puppies or engaged in some sort of offensive behavior. /sarc

I do like the idea of MOH winners, but see long-term issues with that as well.  Ain't no one going to be happy.

John Lejeune's dad was a confederate officer...wonder how long until we see pushback there....


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## Steve1839 (Jun 17, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> You're telling me as a member of the armed services, you, don't take things like honor, courage, respect, loyalty and so forth seriously?


Let an old guy butt in...it's not that those values aren't taken seriously, but when they are posted on signs at intervals as you drive onto post, they ready like Burma Shave signs...(sorry, dated analogy)...it reminds me of all the jingoistic bull shit that I heard coming from the head shed...when my dad was training troops, his unit motto, seriously, was Zero Defects...that was the greeting of the day when saluting an officer..."Zero Defects, sir..."
I know for a fact the greeting wasn't taken seriously...when something becomes a slogan, and is so frequently repeated, it becomes meaningless...I'll put up my soap box and get some more coffee...


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## Florida173 (Jun 17, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I mean, are they really "forts" anymore?  How about 'Columbus Army Base', 'Fayetteville Army Base,'.  That'll work right up until someone reads a Wiki page that Mr. Fayetteville was related to a man who kicked puppies or engaged in some sort of offensive behavior. /sarc
> 
> I do like the idea of MOH winners, but see long-term issues with that as well.  Ain't no one going to be happy.
> 
> John Lejeune's dad was a confederate officer...wonder how long until we see pushback there....



Sounds good.. but then we have to remember that as much of an abolistionist Lafayette was, he also owned slaves... Seems problematic to me. And Columbus, he's in enough trouble as it is.


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 17, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> That’s a two time Bronze Star recipient and former SMU member. I guess he’s as infallible as Gen Shinseki.



The context behind the's comments are significantly different.


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## Devildoc (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Sounds good.. but then we have to remember that as much of an abolistionist Lafayette was, he also owned slaves... Seems problematic to me. And Columbus, he's in enough trouble as it is.



Yeah, that's what I am saying....no matter what people want to rename a base, someone, somewhere, will have an issue....


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## Cookie_ (Jun 17, 2020)

Senator Kennedy is proposing we rename every single military installation after a a MOH recipient, not just the bases named after Confederates.


Sen. Kennedy says all military installations should be renamed after Medal of Honor winners


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## Kaldak (Jun 17, 2020)

That won't be cheap.


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## LimaPanther (Jun 17, 2020)

Not only cheap but how do you decide who is picked. I know of 2 personally. Maj. Gen James Livingston (USMC Ret) (Vietnam)  and I use to probably play together as kids when younger. My grandparents and his family lived in the same little town in GA. And Sgt Kyle White C 2/503, 173rd Abn. (Afgan). He and I have had a few chats and lunch. Not a MOH but Gen Carl Stiner (2d Commander of SOCOM) lives not far from me and we chat when we see each other.  Lots of choices.


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## Kraut783 (Jun 17, 2020)

Start with MOH recipients from WWI and work your way forward.


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## LimaPanther (Jun 17, 2020)

Problem with naming after MOH recipients is the politics involved. I can see TN wanting a base named after Alvin C. York. He was one of the most decorated during WWI. Then comes either Texas or Virginia wanting a base named after Audy Murphy. He earned ever combat decoration during WWII. Born in TX & died in VA. Ever state and politician will be fighting over this.


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## Jaknight (Jun 17, 2020)

Texas could go with MSgt Benavidez he was from there. That man’s MOH story is astonishing to me


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## BloodStripe (Jun 18, 2020)

I vote for naming them after strippers.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I vote for naming them after strippers.



I think I have clip art for that.


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## Steve1839 (Jun 18, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I vote for naming them after strippers.


How many forts can be named after Brandy?


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## SaintKP (Jun 18, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> How many forts can be named after Brandy?




Brandy
Brandi
Brande
Brandee


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## Kaldak (Jun 18, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Brandy
> Brandi
> Brande
> Brandee



Same way with Candy.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2020)

Savannah


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## Florida173 (Jun 18, 2020)

I have an idea.. let's change fort Bragg to... Fort Bragg. Named after Edward S. Bragg - Wikipedia



> was a American politician, lawyer, soldier, and diplomat. He was an accomplished Union Army officer in the American Civil War and served four terms in the United States House of Representatives representing Wisconsin.



I'm sure we could do it for all of them


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## Marauder06 (Jun 18, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I vote for naming them after strippers.





Marauder06 said:


> I think I have clip art for that.


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## Kaldak (Jun 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I have an idea.. let's change fort Bragg to... Fort Bragg. Named after Edward S. Bragg - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure we could do it for all of them



Wisconsin for the win!


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Brandy
> Brandi
> Brande
> Brandee


Brandiy
Brandey
Brandiey
Brandie


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## Marauder06 (Dec 20, 2022)

Letter from West Point's superintendent regarding renaming of Confederate-affiliated roads, products, and locations:


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Letter from West Point's superintendent regarding renaming of Confederate-affiliated roads, products, and locations:



We are removing our history and reconciliation of our people so that we may become enemies once more.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> so that we may become enemies once more.


I don’t know that I agree with that part.


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## Devildoc (Dec 20, 2022)

Whitewashing (can I say that?) history.  

Next will be saying the first 'n' presidents weren't "real" presidents because they had slaves, asterisks by their names as post-colonial overseerers.


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