# ADM McRaven Told To "Get The Hell Out Of The Media"



## CDG (Feb 7, 2012)

Strong words from GEN Vaught(Ret.) 

_Special Operations Commander Adm. Bill McRaven was confronted by retired Lt. Gen. James Vaught, who said he didn’t understand why the recent raids by the Navy SEALs, such as the one to kill Osama bin Laden or to rescue U.S. hostage Jessica Buchanan, were all over the media._

_“Since the time when your wonderful team went and drug bin Laden out and got rid of him, and more recently when you went down and rescued the group in Somalia, or wherever the hell they were, they’ve been splashing all of this all over the media,” Vaught, 85, said. “I flat don’t understand that._

_“Now back when my special operators extracted Saddam [Hussein] from the hole, we didn’t say one damn word about it,” he continued. “We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces drug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut._

_“Now I’m going to tell you, one of these days, if you keep publishing how you do this, the other guy’s going to be there ready for you, and you’re going to fly in and he’s going to shoot down every damn helicopter and kill every one of your SEALs. Now, watch it happen. Mark my words. Get the hell out of the media,” he concluded, as laughter broke out at a meeting of the National Defense Industrial Association in Washington, D.C._

Rest of the article here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...der-advised-to-get-the-hell-out-of-the-media/


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow.  Good to see that Gen Vaughn took the quiet professional part seriously.

On the same token the Administration has a lot to do with the media frenzy, anything for good PR and all that.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 7, 2012)

> “Now back *when my special operators extracted Saddam* [Hussein] from the hole, we didn’t say one damn word about it,” he continued. “We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces drug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut.


 
Whose special operators got Saddam?  If they "belonged" to anyone, it was GEN McChrystal.


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## CDG (Feb 7, 2012)

Mac_NZ said:


> On the same token the Administration has a lot to do with the media frenzy, anything for good PR and all that.


 
It does seem that the President draws more attention to these guys than anybody else.  I guess the General does not see it that way though.  I will defer to him as he would know far better than me.


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## CDG (Feb 7, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Whose special operators got Saddam? If they "belonged" to anyone, it was GEN McChrystal.


 
The article lists him as being the first CO of Delta(which I always thought was Beckwith), so perhaps he meant in that sense?


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## Brill (Feb 7, 2012)

Spotlights = Congressional dollars. He's using survival skills.


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## CDG (Feb 7, 2012)

lindy said:


> Spotlights = Congressional dollars. He's using survival skills.


 
I agree. I also think the current administration is more to blame for the media spotlight than ADM McRaven.  What struck me most about the article was that I don't recall ever seeing a former JSOC guy publicly call out another JSOC guy like this.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 7, 2012)

Personally, I don't see a lot wrong with publicizing events like getting Saddam and Osama.  Those kinds of events are far too significant to be kept under wraps.


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## surgicalcric (Feb 7, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> ...Those kinds of events are far too significant to be kept under wraps.


 
I agree in part... 

The fact that these individuals were captured/killed should have been released to the public.  The 5W's surrounding the events should be close hold and the people releasing the info should be tried for treason.  

Then again national security isnt a punch line or election tool for me...


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## TLDR20 (Feb 7, 2012)

Is the fact that we (Americans) have big scary guys who are really good at blowing down doors and shooting people that much of a secret? Should it be? Shouldn't it be a deterrent? Maybe the next khated up Somali will think twice before grabbing a white girl, if he thinks" Hmm maybe a fucking USN SEAL is going to ninja kick my head off my fucking shoulders". I know I would. Same goes for the other guys. I think there are aspects of what all SOF do that should be shadowy. But shooting people in the face is one thing we should make public. 5w'S and all.


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## DA SWO (Feb 7, 2012)

CDG said:


> The article lists him as being the first CO of Delta(which I always thought was Beckwith), so perhaps he meant in that sense?


?? I thought he was a BG or MG when Delta formed. 
Can't remember if he ran Son Tay or the Iran Rescue Mission?


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## surgicalcric (Feb 7, 2012)

cback0220 said:


> Is the fact that we (Americans) have big scary guys who are really good at blowing down doors and shooting people that much of a secret? 5w'S and all.


 
Have to disagree with you.

No, it isnt a secret that there are guys waiting to turn someone's day bad. However it matters none that the were NSW, SF, Rangers, or the Boy Scouts. They know it was Americans and thats really all that matters. Guy's identities are the issue here...

I mean come on, it is also not a secret we have intelligence personnel in other countries but we shouldnt be talking about the 5Ws surrounding that either.

The more we fee the public the more they believe its their "right" to know more. 

Crip


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## CDG (Feb 7, 2012)

SOWT said:


> ?? I thought he was a BG or MG when Delta formed.
> Can't remember if he ran Son Tay or the Iran Rescue Mission?


 
He was the commander of the Iran Rescue Mission.  From his bio on the Citadel's Distinguished Alumni list: _Former Commanding General combined Korean/U.S. Forces, Korea and Task Force Commander of the 1980 Iranian hostage rescue mission. He has played a prominent role in the formation of post-Vietnam US Special Operations force structure and has courageously served his country as a combat veteran in three wars._

The article I linked at the beginning of this thread referenced him as the first CO of Delta but I could not find corroboration for that claim.


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## goon175 (Feb 7, 2012)

There would have been nothing wrong with saying that U.S. special operations forces killed bin laden, rescued hostages in africa, etc. We don't need to get into specific units, because once specific units are known, the bad guys can target the home base. It is very open source material where each and every Ranger battalion, SF Group, SEAL team, and the SMU's are stationed at. If the details of "who dun it" are left at US SOF, then they obviously cannot target everyone.


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## The Justice Warrior (Feb 8, 2012)

CDG said:


> I agree. I also think the current administration is more to blame for the media spotlight than ADM McRaven. What struck me most about the article was that I don't recall ever seeing a former JSOC guy publicly call out another JSOC guy like this.


 
"Since the time when your wonderful team went and drug bin Laden out and got rid of him, and more recently when you went down and rescued the group in Somalia, or wherever the hell they were, they've been splashing all of this all over the media," Vaught, 85, said. "I flat don't understand that.

"Now back when my special operators extracted Saddam [Hussein] from the hole, we didn't say one damn word about it," he continued. "We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces drug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut."   LT. GEN (R) James Vaught...Reminds me of "Loose Lips Sink Ships" and that caution about "history repeating itself." Control the narrative, SOF; do not become a causality of it!


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## DA SWO (Feb 8, 2012)

The Justice Warrior said:


> "Since the time when your wonderful team went and drug bin Laden out and got rid of him, and more recently when you went down and rescued the group in Somalia, or wherever the hell they were, they've been splashing all of this all over the media," Vaught, 85, said. "I flat don't understand that.
> 
> "Now back when my special operators extracted Saddam [Hussein] from the hole, we didn't say one damn word about it," he continued. "We turned him over to the local commander and told him to claim that his forces drug him out of the hole, and he did so. And we just faded away and kept our mouth shut." LT. GEN (R) James Vaught...Reminds me of "Loose Lips Sink Ships" and that caution about "history repeating itself." Control the narrative, SOF; do not become a causality of it!


I think LTG Vaught is out of line, as "his" Special Operators did not get Saddam; he is retired and those guys belong to another Commander. I doubt Navy PAO is leaking the info and blame the White House.  For me these links are no different then the White House letting the world know JSOC was going into Somalia, and telling the press which plane they would be on.


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## Manolito (Feb 8, 2012)

There is one group that has remained true to its desire to remain unrecognized. The Silent Service. I don't think a group has been any better at keeping what it does quiet. I think people need to know the results of high profile missions and kills not the HOW.
Bill


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## CDG (Feb 8, 2012)

Here's a sort of follow-up article from CBS with a short (6:00) video attached.  It talks about the conflict between the SOF guys wanting shit secret and the people who leak it.  It does provide a cop-out by saying that the people who leak don't know better. From the article,
 "What generates the kind of pressure that McRaven faced Tuesday is when classified information is leaked by congressional or White House staffers who can't tell which details are of tactical value, Miller said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...blic/?tag=morningFlexGridRight;flexGridModule


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## Centermass (Feb 8, 2012)

Agree or disagree with Vaught, he's earned the right to voice his opinion. The fact is he's no longer tied to an administration and voiced what many others are thinking and believe.  

Nowadays, never let an opportunity with the media get in the way of something so trivial as National Security or the lives of those who may be on the line.........

This administration has had the biggest bunch of big mouths who don't know how to keep their fat yaps shut, and still have access to classified information.


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## JBS (Feb 9, 2012)

All I can say is that the way our popular culture deals with classified missions is utterly absurd.  Consider:


*"Global News Headline- Front Page: Top Secret Unit (Shhhhhh) Called SEAL Team 6 Carries Out Top Secret Mission that Nobody Knows About: Full Details Below"*


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## tigerstr (Feb 9, 2012)

Modern war is waged at many levels, as many of you probably know much better than I do. Missions like the one that eliminated OBL or others that free hostages should get a lot of publicity. *Provided that no sensitive TTPs are disclosed*.

Naming units that are supposed to be secret is controversial, but I would say it is more or less something that has been happening for decades in the USA.  

For example, how can a military “officially deny” the existence of a unit, if certain members are permitted to display being part of the unit, openly in their official military bio?

It becomes a bit absurd. 

I must say that military personnel in other countries sometimes wonder about the extent of “openness”   in the US Armed Forces in general, but we all must admit that having an open Democratic society in the information age, has some drawbacks.  

Exploitation of a high profile success by politicians, is almost always one of them.

IMHO, General Vaught comments to McRaven, about the probability of getting choppers shot down and SEALs killed, in future ops, may have merit only if a) there were *sensitive TTPs* disclosed and b) it was USSOCOMs fault that they leaked.

Or maybe he was speaking to the bride so… the mother-in-law will hear!

At any rate it would surprise me if leaking that it was such and such Tier-1 unit, has any real effect on the threat level for that unit.  I am sure they have always been high value targets for US enemies.

On the other hand, I will agree with Lindy that *spotlight brings dollars*. These days, withIRAQ and gradually STAN winding down and the apparent new focus in SFA, FID and "working with partners" I would not be surprised if some folks fear that there might be a cut back in their budget/personel.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 9, 2012)

tigerstr said:


> ...
> 
> For example, how can a military “officially deny” the existence of a unit, if certain members are permitted to display being part of the unit, openly in their official military bio?
> 
> ....


 
What "secret units" are people placing in their official bios? I can't think of any.


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## Gypsy (Feb 9, 2012)

CDG said:


> It does seem that the President draws more attention to these guys than anybody else. .


 
Because he think's he's cool by association. It's all about him.


Here's all we need to know. "And in other news, today the US Military killed a top taliban (or whomever) piece of shit etc etc" and that is all.  No one really needs to know what unit did what.


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## tigerstr (Feb 9, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> What "secret units" are people placing in their official bios? I can't think of any.


 
The easy example for what I was reffering to as "officialy denied",  is SFOD-D


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## Brian1/75 (Feb 13, 2012)

tigerstr said:


> The easy example for what I was reffering to as "officialy denied", is SFOD-D


As soon as Beckwith released his book, that secret was out. If former Delta guys want to talk about their hero days, that's cool with me. But I think recent operations and current members should be a guarded secret and they are as far as I know. Other SOF units have done a few high profile things that have hit the news and the average person doesn't know it was them. Why are things so different for ST6? I think this is what confuses many in the community.


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## Scotth (Feb 15, 2012)

While I agree with the overall sentiment of what the Gen said, I would point out there was plenty known about his the mission he commanded called Operations Eagle Claw. There was plenty known about who participated and how it was conducted.  Not to mention countless other incidents over the last three decades. Remember the Recon Marines and SEALS coming ashore in Somalia at night with cameras with the flood lights in there face.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 15, 2012)

Obviously I wasn't there at the meeting, but the way the incident was portrayed, the general came across as a bit of a dick.  If he had strong feelings about something like this, I'm pretty sure that given his background, the commander of SOCOM would be willing to give him some one-on-one time where they could talk about it in private.  "Hey, you need to get the hell out of the media, but let me tell you that in a way that will ensure that this gets splashed across every major periodical in the US."    At least McRaven was classy enough not to remind the general that the failure of "his" people was what prompted the creation of "McRaven's" people.


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## Brian1/75 (Feb 15, 2012)

I heard he said all kind of absurd shit. This just made the major periodicals because it's something everybody has been wondering even if the guy that said it is hypocritical or a loon.


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## DA SWO (Feb 15, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> I heard he said all kind of absurd shit. This just made the major periodicals because it's something everybody has been wondering even if the guy that said it is hypocritical or a loon.


Just an old man who is no longer relevant.


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## CDG (Feb 15, 2012)

Did you guys get your "Military Briefing Pack Justice Coins" yet?

https://www.justicecoin.com/


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## dknob (Feb 16, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> As soon as Beckwith released his book, that secret was out. If former Delta guys want to talk about their hero days, that's cool with me. But I think recent operations and current members should be a guarded secret and they are as far as I know. Other SOF units have done a few high profile things that have hit the news and the average person doesn't know it was them. Why are things so different for ST6? I think this is what confuses many in the community.


 
maybe somebody should tell them to stop doing Best Ranger if they don't want their names out there.

If people think that Al-Qaeda and associates can't tell where the guy listed as "USASOC HQ" with his SF and Ranger tab is from then they need to un-naive themselves.


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## Salt USMC (Feb 17, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Obviously I wasn't there at the meeting, but the way the incident was portrayed, the general came across as a bit of a dick.  If he had strong feelings about something like this, I'm pretty sure that given his background, the commander of SOCOM would be willing to give him some one-on-one time where they could talk about it in private.  "Hey, you need to get the hell out of the media, but let me tell you that in a way that will ensure that this gets splashed across every major periodical in the US."    At least McRaven was classy enough not to remind the general that the failure of "his" people was what prompted the creation of "McRaven's" people.


Interesting point.  What's the general opinion on Adm. McRaven as the SOCOM head?


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## Marauder06 (Feb 17, 2012)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Interesting point. What's the general opinion on Adm. McRaven as the SOCOM head?


 
I'm a big fan of McRaven.  He was one of my commanders at JSOC and I think he's very well qualified to head up SOCOM.


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## Hitman2/3 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would agree that stating who conducted what mission is uncalled for when it comes to those units. At most if the government wants to throw a little public appreciation their way they can simply say a SEAL team or Army Special Operations.

 Obviously it's no secret these unit exist, anybody with a computer can get a pretty good amount of info from OSINT; however, the amount of information they released on the OBL hit was ridiculous. They damn near released the AAR complete with 5 W's, flight paths, satellite imagery, photos, and in at least in one news report I heard they were knocking on the door of some stuff that is literally classified TS SCI. 

As I've said before the public dosen't need to know who or how, and in most cases why. It dosen't provide them with anything they need to know, and at best just gives them something to bitch about. They have representatives that they elected that give permission for all these wonderful things to happen. To paraphrase old Jack Nicholson "I refuse to sit here and be questioned by a person who rises and falls under the very blanket of security I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it"


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