# Case Study:  Tabs and Tyrants



## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2017)

*Tabs and Tyrants*
_ a ShadowSpear Case Study_

For those of you who are unfamiliar with how this works, in these cases studies one of us takes a real-life military experience, fictionalizes it, and serializes it into a series of posts.  After each post, members are invited to share their own thoughts, observations, suggestions, and experiences related to the story at hand.  Subsequent story-related posts are based largely on audience responses, in kind of “choose your own adventure” format.

Then, at the end, the original author re-writes it into one coherent story line and talks about the “real life” events that prompted this case.

Anyone, regardless of experience or expertise, is welcome to chime in.  Keep in mind that this is designed to be both entertaining and developmental.  Comments that are unhelpful towards those goals will be summarily deleted.

Here’s an example of ones we did a couple of years ago:  
Case Study #2:  The Loyal Wife
Case Study:  Revolution

For reasons that will be revealed in the following pages, this story is called “Tabs and Tyrants.”  Enjoy.

___________

When Second Lieutenant Scott Faith arrived at the battalion headquarters of First Battalion, First Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, he carried a folder with his medical and dental records, his inprocessing checklist, and ten copies of his orders.  He also carried with him the weight of something he had never experienced before:  failure.

Up to this point, Faith had been relatively successful in the things he thought were important in life.  He got good grades in high school, coasted through college and ROTC, and got he wanted when it came to commissioning and his Army branch.  He never lacked for friends… or girlfriends for that matter.  It seemed that he was winning in every aspect of his life.  But then, something happened.  More specifically, “Ranger School” happened.

Ranger School would be tough, he knew, but it never occurred to him that he wouldn’t come out the other side “tabbed.”  Yet here he was, at his first unit, a failure.  A non-tabbed Infantry officer.  A “tabless bitch.”  At the Infantry Officers Basic Course, he was constantly reminded that this was literally the worst thing that could happen to a young lieutenant.  “Better to catch a DUI charge en route than to show up at your first unit without a tab,” one of the noncommissioned officers trainers at the Basic Course told him.  And Faith believed him.  Still believed him.  Ever since he got to Fort Campbell, he felt people were watching him, judging him.  Because they probably were.

Taking a deep breath, he pressed on the swinging glass door and walked out of the hot Tennessee sun and into the cool darkness of the battalion headquarters.  He checked in with a bored-looking specialist at the front desk, who nonchalantly directed him down the hallway to the office of the battalion’s S1, or personnel officer.

The S1 was a young and harried-looking captain whose cramped office was piled with books, folders, and Army manuals, with no apparent order or logic.  The door was open and Faith raised his hand to knock.

“Come in,” the S1 said, sensing rather than seeing Faith at the door.

As Faith entered the room, the S1 stood and walked over to shake hands.  As he did so, he glanced at the jacket of Faith’s battle dress uniform, which bore Airborne and Air Assault badges.  That was good.  But then his eyes skirted to Faith’s left sleeve, where a “subdued” green and black Ranger Tab should have been sewn above the “Screaming Eagle” patch of the 101st Airborne Division.  His expression darkened. 

“No tab?” he asked incredulously.”

“No sir,” Faith responded without elaborating.

“Why not?” the S1 pressed.

Faith thought about that for a second.  There were many reasons.  Too many people in the starting class meant a lot of lieutenants, including him, “failed” the PT test and got rolled into the next class.  During a unit run in Darby Phase, someone behind him stumbled over a crack in the pavement and flew headlong into Faith’s ankle, twisting it painfully.  Luck of the draw gave Faith some crappy missions in Mountain Phase.  Being in a squad that was all West Pointers, except him, meant his peer evaluations suffered.  About halfway through, his girlfriend broke up with him, via a “Dear John” letter.  And a family emergency meant he couldn’t still around for more after he got “recycled” back to Day 1 of Ranger School.  Preparation, persecution, family, and luck all played a role in the outcome.  But if he were honest with himself, and now he felt like he could be, at the end of the day, those reasons were just excuses.  There was only one accurate answer.

“I didn’t meet course standards, sir,” he said, with more confidence than he actually felt.

“OK.  Well, that complicates things.  I had you slated for a platoon in Charlie Company, but now I’m going to have to give it to one of the other new arrivals and figure out what to do with you,” he explained.

“Sir,” Faith began, “I’d really like to go to a line platoon right away.  I need to get back to Ranger School and—“

“Slow your roll, Lieutenant,” the S1 interrupted, unsympathetically.  “No one cares what you want or what you think you need.  All we care about is the needs of the unit.  Right now we don’t have any line platoons open, and even if we did, based on the Battalion Commander’s guidelines I wouldn’t send a non-Ranger qualified platoon leader down to the line.”

Cowed, Faith said nothing.

“Give me your medical and dental records and three copies of your orders,” the S1 continued.  Faith complied.  After perusing them for a moment, he said, “Everything appears to be in order.  Here’s your battalion-level inprocessing sheet.”  Then he picked up the telephone.  “Sir, a new lieutenant has arrived.  When would you like to see him?”  A pause.  “No sir, no tab.”  Another pause.  “Roger sir,” he concluded before hanging up.

“The Battalion Commander likes to see every new lieutenant as soon as they arrive,” he explained.  “His office is down the hall and to the right.  He will see you now.  Good luck, Lieutenant Faith.”

Deflated, Faith made his way down the hallway to the Battalion Commander’s office.  This was going to be as bad as he imagined.  Well, Faith thought, at least the S1 didn’t call me a “tabless bitch.”  But it was probably implied.

Faith knocked twice on the open door.  “Sir, LT Faith reporting as ordered.”

“Enter!” a voice behind the desk directed.

(end)

Discussion topics:

1)  Why is having a Ranger Tab so important in an Infantry unit?  Does it have the same meaning in other units?

2)  What should Faith’s priority be now?

3)  What kinds of things should Faith focus on in his upcoming discussion with the Battalion Commander?

4)  How have you dealt with your own failures, either in the military or in life in general?


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## Kraut783 (Sep 20, 2017)

So glad case study is back !


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## racing_kitty (Sep 20, 2017)

Case study? There's a year of my life gone already.


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## SaintKP (Sep 20, 2017)

@Marauder06 I'm going to skip question 1 since it is out of my lane, while I have an idea as to why I still don't feel as if I can discuss it accurately.

2.) He should be worrying about where he is at right now and making a positive impact on the new unit that he is in. If he starts gunning for a second chance it's going to leave a bad taste in his command and subordinates mouths, essentially showing them he doesn't care about them and that he's only there until he gets a second chance at the tab.

3.) I feel as if this pertains to the same area as question 1 did but I'll still try and answer it.

He should focus on honesty and clarity with the Bat. Commander, he needs to explain the impact that he is wanting to bring and how he is going to fit into the bigger picture per say. I would also want him to be open about his intentions to get the tab but make it clear that his mind is on the present task of doing what's best for his unit.

You can be a PT stud, smart as a tack, etc. But if you lack honesty or the ability to have your intentions clearly stated you will get no where with anyone in life.

4.) When I was younger I had a problem with dealing with them, hell I still do every now and then. No one likes to fail. However you can't let it defeat you, when life gives you a swift kick in the nuts you usually have two options. One, is to lay back and act like everything is out if your control and just let it continue or you the second one where you can stand back up, brush yourself off and ask may I have another.

Life isn't some soft blanket that you can wrap yourself in and it'll make you feel nice and warm. It's a constant stream of suck that you have to learn to deal with interrupted by periods of pure joy and happiness. When you lose sight of that and start letting life beat you down that's when you've already lost.

How I've learned to deal with failure in life is look at the reason that I failed, learn from it and move on. When you start wallowing in your failures you are doomed to never move on it's the same thing with the woulda coulda shoulda crowd. Failures are learning experiences and you should embrace it, in the end they make you a stronger person.


I've looked through and tried to get all of the spelling errors due to spell check, apologies if I missed any. Also I look forward to more of these case studies.


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## R.Caerbannog (Sep 20, 2017)

Hooray Mara!


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## CDG (Sep 21, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Discussion topics:
> 
> 1)  Why is having a Ranger Tab so important in an Infantry unit?  Does it have the same meaning in other units?
> 
> ...



1)  We've talked on this site before about how relevant Ranger School is these days, after 16 years of combat.  That being said, it's still the gold standard in the Army for combat leadership.  The Army loves badges, tabs, trinkets, etc. that let them easily identify how capable a soldier is.  At least in theory.  Ranger School proves you passed Ranger School.  It doesn't mean you will be a great leader.  It doesn't seem like ARSOF, outside of the 75th, puts as much stock in the tab.  SF conducts their own SUT, leadership, and embracing the suck evolutions. It doesn't seem as important in Armor, mech, FA units, based on my experiences.

2) His priority should be doing everything he can to prove himself, working towards being ready for another shot at RS, and making sure he doesn;t fall into the trap of making excuses about why he didn't make it.  He didn't do that with the S1, but resentment can fester for awhile and then surface in different ways, i.e. shit talking the school, blaming the cadre for favoritism.

3) He should focus on owning what happened, and expressing to the BC what his plan is for improving the areas he was weak in.  He should state that he will stay ready to re-attend RS, and that he will do whatever he can to support the BNs mission.

4)  Man, you just gotta accept it, learn from it, and drive on.  Getting mad and/or feeling sorry for yourself can be a tempting outlet.  You gotta fight the urge to indulge, and look at things objectively.  What can I do to improve?  What can I do to ensure I am more ready next time?  Focus on that, and try to let the other shit go.


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## Il Duce (Sep 21, 2017)

What kind of fucked up unit has the battalion S-1 deciding who gets a platoon or not?  Sounds like something is rotten with that BC and LT Faith is in for some bad models of 'what right looks like.'

My $.02 on the discussion questions:

1. Book answer: it's the standard (though it's not written in any regulation, policy, or doctrine so I guess it's the 'unwritten' standard).  I think the real answer is Army and especially maneuver culture.  There is a culture of 'prove your machismo/bona fides/toughness/whatever in the Army in general and maneuver specifically.  I was talking with an Air Force officer about this the other day as he discussed every time he met Army officers in groups (though not one-on-one) he had to go through a 'testing' phase of 'where have you been, what have you done' more akin to the playground on your first day as a transfer student.  On the plus side it provides a common understanding of grit, experience, skill, and ability to make the cut - on the negative side it can be playground bullshit that has little bearing on your abilities as a leader.  I've heard from many Rangers the school taught them little but how to be hungry and tired - that better men than them didn't have a tab and far worse did.  But, culturally it's hard for me to even write that - and I would never say it in uniform, because I don't have the tab.  

2. The same thing it should be for every 2LT - learn as much as you can, be the best leader you can be, and start getting a nose for who to listen to and who is full of shit.  The last is no where near as straight-forward as you'd think but IMO is the most important attribute an officer will ever build.

3. Listening.  If he has goals for his time as a CPT - command, broadening, SFAS, teaching at USMA - he should mention them if asked.  But his LT years are given over to that BN and becoming a tactical company-grade officer.  

4. Own them.  There's nothing else for it.  If you could stop giving a shit about them they wouldn't be failures, just history.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 21, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Discussion topics:
> 
> 1)  Why is having a Ranger Tab so important in an Infantry unit?  Does it have the same meaning in other units?
> 
> ...



1) Although a Ranger Tab (RT) is important for uniformity in tactical leadership and SUT.  The main thing it does is give the 2LT credibility and a bit of "hooah points" with the troops. Thats always a plus for a new 2LT.

If you look back to the WW2 era, Airborne troops were trained in many of the skills, tactics and leadership that is taught in Ranger school today. Most Airborne troops were trained to a very high standard before receiving jump wings. Fast forward to late 50 & 60's, the SUT, skills sets and leadership training is removed from Airborne training, leaving a gap of knowledge and ability. The stop gap, was Ranger school, hints all leadership positions in Airborne units requiring Ranger qualified leaders, maintaining a highly skilled standard of knowledge and leadership. Gen. Westmoreland saw this and attempted to address it early in the 50's at West Point, and again at the 101'st and again in Vietnam with MACV SOG "RECONDO" schools. Not enough Ranger qualified leaders, so he took Ranger qualed guys and had them teach a short course to elevate leadership and skill sets.

Bottom line is maintaining a standard of training and leadership skills. Thats not to say a Ranger Tab makes a good leader, or that someone non Ranger qualified is not a good leader.

2) Being the best 2LT he can be in whatever assignment he gets. He needs to out soldier/leader the other 2LT's with Ranger Tabs. While staying humble. 

3) Being humble, not making excuses, and jumping at any opportunity the commander offers him. Thats not to say he shouldn't be asking for a platoon like a 16 year old girl wanting a car, but staying focused on what's in front of him, and doing it better than the other guy.

4) I've shit the bed a few times, felt sorry for myself and made excusses. Didn't get me anywhere...I've also fought for things I've wanted and stayed after them until I got them.  Anything is possible, it's just how bad you want it. I think that applies to everything in life, work, small business, the military, education, marrige, family relationships, medical recoveries, etc, etc.

Anyway, my $.02


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## Marauder06 (Sep 22, 2017)

Great responses so far!  Thanks for the input.

__________

Deflated, Faith made his way down the hallway to the Battalion Commander’s office.  This was going to be as bad as he imagined.  Well, Faith thought, at least the S1 didn’t call me a “tabless bitch.”  But it was probably implied.

Faith knocked twice on the open door.  “Sir, LT Faith reporting as ordered.”

“Enter!” a voice behind the desk directed.
Faith marched into the room, executed a sharp facing movement and stopped two steps in front of the battalion commander’s desk.  Giving what he hoped was the best salute he ever rendered, he repeated, “Sir, LT Faith reporting as ordered.”

“Take a seat, Lieutenant,” the battalion commander directed.  Faith sat in a small upholstered chair that he felt was deliberately designed for discomfort.  He could feel the springs in the back, and the wood beneath the seat cushion.  The battalion commander, a slight, bookish man in his mid-40s, had short graying hair and wore a pair of reading glasses.  He looked through a folder on his desk while Faith sat there in awkward silence.

The pause in the action gave Faith a chance to look around the room.  Because of his line of view he could only see his commander’s chest and right sleeve.  On his chest, the battalion commander wore a Pathfinder badge, Air Assault wings, and an Airborne badge.  Above the Airborne badge was a star and wreath that indicated a senior jumpmaster.  Above all of these was a Combat Infantryman’s Badge, the crowning jewel of an Infantryman’s professional credentials. 

On his right sleeve was a green arrowhead patch that bore a black dagger.  Crowning the arrowhead patch was an Airborne tab.  Faith didn’t recognize this patch but he knew it was some kind of Special Operations thing.  He also know that since it was on the right sleeve it was a “combat patch.”  So, his battalion commander had seen combat as part of a Special Operations unit.  That made him some kind of badass.  And here Faith was, a tabless lieutenant.  “That’s just great,” Faith thought sarcastically.

“Welcome to First Battalion,” the man across the desk said, in a friendly manner that Faith was not expecting.  “I had a chance to look over your record.  ROTC at a good school, decent grades, interesting college major, Mortar Leaders Course prior to coming to Fort Campbell.  But…” he paused.

“Here it comes,” Faith thought to himself.

“But,” the battalion commander repeated, “no Ranger Tab.  You’re going to want to fix that,” he stated matter-of-factly.

“So, the S1 tells me that we’re about to be full in the line companies, but where we really have a need is in the Weapons Platoon,” the battalion commander added. 

“They’re 1 of 5 for platoon leaders, they don’t have an XO, and their one other platoon leader is about to move out of the job.  So that’s where we’re short.  But putting brand-new lieutenants in Weapons is tricky.  It’s a different type of platoon, with a different type of soldier.  Different type of NCOs.  Different weapons, different tactics.  Weapons often chews LTs up and spits them out.”

“We also have a need for a couple of assistant S3s.  It’s a different kind of work, but there’s almost no field time which means plenty of time to prep to go back to Ranger School.  It also means you get a feel for the different companies out there and you can bide your time until the line platoon you want opens up.”

“Here’s the bottom line,” he continued, “I’m going to give you something that most other lieutenants don’t get:  a choice.  You can either have a weapons platoon now, or you can mark time on staff until a line platoon opens up.  One benefit of the former is that you can have a platoon now.  The drawback is, it’s not a platoon you were trained for, and they are leaving for the National Training Center in about four days,” he explained.  “It’s going to be harder for you to get back to Ranger School.”

“If you take the staff job, you’ll have time to PT your ass off and get back into shape and go back to Ranger School right away, and then get into the queue for a line platoon.  The bad news is, that means your platoon leader time is likely to be extremely limited.  Either way it’s fine with me, but you’ve got to decide right now,” he explained.

“Sir,” Faith replied after a brief consideration.  I’d like to …”

(end)

Discussion Questions:
1)  What should LT Faith do?  Potential courses of action include taking one of the two options offered, suggesting a third course of action, or asking for more time to make a decision.  There is a mortar platoon in the battalion, and Faith is a graduate of the Mortar Platoon Leader’s course.  Maybe that would be a better fit for him?

2)  What are some of the positive and negative implications of the course of action you’ve suggested?


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## x SF med (Sep 22, 2017)

Take the Weapons PL slot, get the Jr leadership experience, with plenty of time to learn from NCOs and hone the skills needed to be a truly effective leader in the near future.   The draw back...  probably not going to get to Ranger School, ever...  which will relegate LT Faith to future staff/support leadership roles.  Not a bad thing, as those areas generally have a greater need for truly competent leaders.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 22, 2017)

Take the weapons platoon, be humble and work hard to learn the job.

Commander has a need, he basically told you he needs you here, but it's going to be hard, but that's what he needs. Or you can say fuck the unit, I'll play Shop and go to Ranger school. Basically a "will you sacrifice for the greater good, or will you be selfish and serve your own wants and desires" type decision.


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## Il Duce (Sep 22, 2017)

Weapons PLT.  What the LT doesn't know, but the BC does is a weapons PLT is frequently a 2nd PLT - giving some LT a chance at being selected as a Co XO.  The LT is also being given a test - do you choose the hard leadership position where your primary commitment (at least the way the BC is laying it out) is leadership - or a staff job where your primary commitment (again as the BC is laying it out - staff are people too) is to yourself and prepping for the individual achievement of earning a Ranger tab.

The BC may even say 'I appreciate you're wanting the weapons PLT, I'll let you know' and moving him to the S-3.  But, LT Faith has been added to the 'give him a chance' column.  I wonder if LT Faith were to choose S3 if a line platoon would ever actually open up - that weapons PLT was never really on the table.  You have to mistrust those bookish-looking motherfuckers...

Staff is a great place to refine understanding, learn how units run, and becoming a 'make it happen' kind of leader.  But, there is no substitute for command at any level - that's the true crucible where leadership is formed.  You are forced to learn how to take/receive guidance, plan, execute, and decide - or learn enough to fake those things better than many folks execute them.  You've got limited time as a LT - where you will sponge knowledge good/bad - it's a shame when it's wasted anywhere but on the line IMO.


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## Devildoc (Sep 22, 2017)

A newly-minted O1?  Thank the BC, take the Weps job, don't look back.  Weps platoons, at least in the Marines, will make or break a 2nd LT; if you don't break, the sky is the limit.


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## Gunz (Sep 22, 2017)

Take the weapons platoon billet, learn the crap out of it, hone your leadership skills and show everybody that you are balls to the wall squared away and combat ready. 

Honestly I had no idea an Army infantry O was the red-headed stepchild unless he had the Ranger bling to prove his manhood. That's pretty fucked up to me because I had some total badass Marine infantry officers and the only bling they wore was their rank.

If the Ranger tab is so goddam important for Army infantry O's then they ought to make it a mandatory phase of infantry officer training and end the pissing contest. Either you get the tab and your in, or you don't and your no longer infantry.


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## Devildoc (Sep 22, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> If the Ranger tab is so goddam important for Army infantry O's then they ought to make it a mandatory phase of infantry officer training and end the pissing contest. Either you get the tab and your in, or you don't and your no longer infantry.



I thought the same thing, but it's not my family, so who am I to say.  But yeah, the whole "you-don't-HAVE-to-have-it-you-have-to-have-it" thing is wearisome.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 22, 2017)

The Ranger Tab is more specific to units vs the Infantry as a whole. Airborne, Assault, Light, Mountian, etc. These units code their para/line leaders as V/G positions (airborne Ranger Q/Leg Ranger Q). Heavy,  Mech, or motorized Infantry doesn't require a Ranger Tab. Generally squad leader and above in the 101st 173rd and 82nd are V slotted positions, Airborne Ranger qualified, and is like that specific to the units core mission capability, rapid deployment, kinda the Big A's shock troops for small engagements the likes of Grenada and Panama, etc. Those higher standards are needed for the masses, not everyone, but it brings the standards and skill level up across the board...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 22, 2017)

Another example, most light, Airborne/assault Infantry do not cross over to mech/motorized Infantry units. It happens, but it's not the norm. A good leader in an airborne unit will suck in a mech unit and vise versa. Some can and do do it, but most end up having life. Different mission and capabilities.


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## Il Duce (Sep 22, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Another example, most light, Airborne/assault Infantry do not cross over to mech/motorized Infantry units. It happens, but it's not the norm. A good leader in an airborne unit will suck in a mech unit and vise versa. Some can and do do it, but most end up having life. Different mission and capabilities.


I think that's much less true for officers vs enlisted.  Officers used to be expected to have heavy and light experience - though since the combining of infantry and armor 'light' experienced folks have been getting promoted to O-6 at much higher rates.  There's a large bias towards Ranger Regiment and SOF experienced officers now that wasn't the case in the 80s and 90s.  Needless to say there's a lot of heartburn in the armor community over it.


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## CDG (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm going to go against the grain, and argue for him to take the assistant S3 job.  I can certainly understand the reasoning presented for him to take the WEP PLT, and I can't say that any of that is wrong.  That being said, Mother Army will always get hers.  There's nothing wrong with doing what you can to set yourself up for success.  As an infantry officer, he's gotta have that tab.  Regardless of whether he "officially" needs it or not, he needs that fucking tab.  I look at the WEP PLT as being the easy way out.  The BC said that he probably wouldn't ever get to go back to RS.  So what good does a WEP PLT do?  He MIGHT prove himself there, and then he moves on from PLT command as a still-tabless infantry officer.  I think he needs to show the BC that he's not afraid to put the work in to go back and re-attempt the thing that already kicked his ass once.  He might have limited PLT time, but he will have a better understanding of the bigger picture from being on staff, and he will (hopefully) have a tab as well.  More PLT time isn't going to mean anything when trying to compete for CO command without a tab.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 22, 2017)

CDG said:


> I'm going to go against the grain, and argue for him to take the assistant S3 job....As an infantry officer, he's gotta have that tab.  Regardless of whether he "officially" needs it or not, he needs that fucking tab.



Agree 100%.  I’ve spent the better part of the afternoon trying to write out what @CDG said so well.


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## Il Duce (Sep 22, 2017)

CDG said:


> I'm going to go against the grain, and argue for him to take the assistant S3 job.  I can certainly understand the reasoning presented for him to take the WEP PLT, and I can't say that any of that is wrong.  That being said, Mother Army will always get hers.  There's nothing wrong with doing what you can to set yourself up for success.  As an infantry officer, he's gotta have that tab.  Regardless of whether he "officially" needs it or not, he needs that fucking tab.  I look at the WEP PLT as being the easy way out.  The BC said that he probably wouldn't ever get to go back to RS.  So what good does a WEP PLT do?  He MIGHT prove himself there, and then he moves on from PLT command as a still-tabless infantry officer.  I think he needs to show the BC that he's not afraid to put the work in to go back and re-attempt the thing that already kicked his ass once.  He might have limited PLT time, but he will have a better understanding of the bigger picture from being on staff, and he will (hopefully) have a tab as well.  More PLT time isn't going to mean anything when trying to compete for CO command without a tab.



I think you're describing the crux of the conflict @Marauder06 is bringing out with this case study.  The Ranger tab will absolutely improve LT Faith's career prospects in every way - but, in these circumstances won't improve his performance, in fact the opposite.  A Ranger qualified officer is more likely to get command in any branch, period.  But, an officer with PL experience makes a far more effective CDR (XO is the most critical experience to company command but success as an XO depends on being an exceptional PL).  The case study brings into sharp focus where the way we measure individual performance and achievement through norms can be unhelpful and in fact counter-productive.


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## DA SWO (Sep 22, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> I think you're describing the crux of the conflict @Marauder06 is bringing out with this case study.  The Ranger tab will absolutely improve LT Faith's career prospects in every way - but, in these circumstances won't improve his performance, in fact the opposite.  A Ranger qualified officer is more likely to get command in any branch, period.  But, an officer with PL experience makes a far more effective CDR (XO is the most critical experience to company command but success as an XO depends on being an exceptional PL).  The case study brings into sharp focus where the way we measure individual performance and achievement through norms can be unhelpful and in fact counter-productive.


Why would taking Weapons Plt kill his chances of going back to Ranger School?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 22, 2017)

Hard to prep, when you are running shit...


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## Il Duce (Sep 22, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Why would taking Weapons Plt kill his chances of going back to Ranger School?


It doesn't 'kill' his chances - just makes it tougher.  He's got an operational mission - meaning it's more difficult for him to take time out to train.  In fact, he's starting in one of the most challenging times - with a CTC rotation coming up quickly.  Plus, he's not going to be able to leave his platoon - or at least if he's decent no one will want him to leave - to attend Ranger school.  He'll need to attend once his PL time is done.


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## Kraut783 (Sep 22, 2017)

Be a team player or be "that" guy.... In my humble support experience, take the weapons platoon.


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## Teufel (Sep 22, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Take the weapons platoon billet, learn the crap out of it, hone your leadership skills and show everybody that you are balls to the wall squared away and combat ready.
> 
> Honestly I had no idea an Army infantry O was the red-headed stepchild unless he had the Ranger bling to prove his manhood. That's pretty fucked up to me because I had some total badass Marine infantry officers and the only bling they wore was their rank.
> 
> If the Ranger tab is so goddam important for Army infantry O's then they ought to make it a mandatory phase of infantry officer training and end the pissing contest. Either you get the tab and your in, or you don't and your no longer infantry.



I've been told that Ranger school is treated as an extension of the Infantry Basic Officer Leader Course. I'm not certain what the attrition rate is at IBOLIC but the USMC Infantry Officer Course drops students at the rate of some SOF selection courses.


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## policemedic (Sep 22, 2017)

I completely agree with taking the weapons platoon.  Doing so speaks to LT Faith's character, and that's critical as he attempts to build a professional reputation.

As to Ranger School generally, my opinion is that a Ranger tab tells me the bearer can handle the suck.  They won't quit under difficult and trying circumstances.  That's important.  But that's it.  A guy coming from Ranger Regiment is a different animal, and carries much more weight.  All my PLs in the 7th ID(L) had tabs, as did my CO.  However, their professional knowledge was not equal to the E-6 squad leaders or the Vietnam vet PSG.  That's just my view.  In reality, it's a truism that Infantry officers without Ranger tabs are looked at differently...except perhaps if they have a CIB.


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## CDG (Sep 23, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> I think you're describing the crux of the conflict @Marauder06 is bringing out with this case study.  The Ranger tab will absolutely improve LT Faith's career prospects in every way - but, in these circumstances won't improve his performance, in fact the opposite.  A Ranger qualified officer is more likely to get command in any branch, period.  But, an officer with PL experience makes a far more effective CDR (XO is the most critical experience to company command but success as an XO depends on being an exceptional PL).  The case study brings into sharp focus where the way we measure individual performance and achievement through norms can be unhelpful and in fact counter-productive.



You're right, that is the crux of the study.  He will not be in a position to be a CO CDR without a tab, but if he gets the tab he's shortening the critical PLT time needed to round out his leadership abilities.  Definitely a catch-22, and I don't think him taking the WEP PLT is the wrong answer.  I just think taking the A-S3 and going back to RS is a slightly better answer.  I have to keep going back to the same argument.  Despite what's on paper as official requirements, or what some people may weight Ranger School as, an infantry officer is severely stunting his career progression by not getting a tab.   Like I said in a previous post, Mother Army will always get hers. I don't see this narrowly defined choice as being between being selfish and being a team player.  I think both choices have plenty of pros and cons.  I haven't met a lot of BN CCs that would play the subtle game of offering two choices, when they really only want you to take one.  BN CCs tend to be pretty straight shooters.


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## Ranger Psych (Sep 23, 2017)

There is time for him to do PL and even XO time, then do hooah school enroute to the captains course.

That's exactly what one officer I attended school with was doing.  He actually wasn't able to get a RS slot post IOBC.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 25, 2017)

“Well, the S1 tells me that we’re about to be full in the line companies, but where we really have a need is in the Weapons Platoon.  They’re 1 of 5 for platoon leaders, they don’t have an XO, and their one other platoon leader is about to move out of the job.  So that’s where we’re short.  But putting brand-new lieutenants in Weapons is tricky.  It’s a different type of platoon, with a different type of soldier.  Different type of NCOs.  Different weapons, different tactics.  Weapons often chews LTs up and spits them out.”

“We also have a need for a couple of assistant S3s.  It’s a different kind of work, but there’s almost no field time which means plenty of time to prep to go back to Ranger School.  It also means you get a feel for the different companies out there and you can bide your time until the line platoon you want opens up.”

“Here’s the bottom line,” he continued, “I’m going to give you something that most other lieutenants don’t get:  a choice.  You can either have a weapons platoon now, or you can mark time on staff until a line platoon opens up.  One benefit of the former is that you can have a platoon now.  The drawback is, it’s not a platoon you were trained for, and they are leaving for the National Training Center in about four days,” he explained.  “If you take the staff job, you’ll have time to PT your ass off and get back into shape and go back to Ranger School right away, and then get into the queue for a line platoon.  The bad news is, that means your platoon leader time is likely to be extremely limited.  Either way it’s fine with me, but you’ve got to decide right now.”

“Sir,” Faith replied after a brief consideration.  I’d like to take the weapons platoon.”
The battalion commander paused for a moment, looking at Faith in a way that made him think he made the wrong decision.

“Sounds good lieutenant, Delta Company is the last building on Bastogne Boulevard.  It will take you about four minutes to walk down there from here.  I’ll call Captain Thompson to let him know you’ll be there in five minutes.  Dismissed.”

Faith stood and saluted and after the battalion commander returned it, exited the office and began to make his way down to Delta Company.   As he walked down the long sidewalk that paralleled Bastogne Boulevard, Faith observed a knot of soldiers approaching him from the other direction.  Seeing that an officer was approaching, they exchanged hurried whispers and then strung out in a long line so that Faith would have to salute each in turn instead of once in a big group.  After exchanging salutes with the last solider in the line, Faith heard them giggling as they continued on their way.

(end)

Discussion Questions

1) What actions, if any, should Faith now take based on what just happened?
 2) Now that you think about it, what _did_ just happen?


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## CDG (Sep 25, 2017)

Faith shouldn't do anything.  It's a classic move, especially for new O's.  We had a couple guys that were enlisted JTACs that went and got commissioned, and we would pull that move on them all the time after they got back.  I don't know how it's viewed from the O standpoint, but from an E standpoint, it's just a bit of good natured shenanigans.  It would be the wrong move for a brand new LT, already under a bit of a microscope for not having a tab, to make a big deal out of something that trivial.  He can mention it to the CO CC if he wants, but I wouldn't take it any further than that.


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## Gunz (Sep 25, 2017)

A young officer needs a wry sense of humor if he's going to cope with E3s...otherwise they will chew him up.


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## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2017)

By the time I was commissioned, I was in the reserves.  The local unit did not have a billet for me immediately, so I chewed time hanging out with the Marines on their drill weekends (that was _MY_ leadership dilemma:  hang with the jarheads or supervise the monthly drug screen for the Navy and do other menial shit).  I was drilling with the _same_ Marine reserve unit I had last been a corpsman; naturally, all the corpsmen and the Marines just fucked with me, constantly.  Part of the game.


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## x SF med (Sep 25, 2017)

1. Faith needs to drive on and be the best PL he can be, learn, grow and prepare for the future.
2. What just happened was that Faith got what he wanted, and he now needs to be aware that he needs to be careful and professional. (paean to GEN Powell for his rules)


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## Il Duce (Sep 25, 2017)

1. Nothing.  He'll earn respect or he won't - but he won't do it as the drill and ceremony instructor.  They met the regulation - if not the intent.  Faith needs to rise above and ensure he earns a reputation as level-headed and focused on the right things - anything that could give him a reputation for chickenshit should be avoided like the plague.  As an officer, you should be very careful about group corrections and only use them in the most sparing manner.  I hope he took note of at least the whisperer/planner for the action.  Influencers have great potential - as leaders or as problems.  In general Faith should let his NCOs make corrections - he should definitely look around though.  If NCOs aren't correcting Soldiers that don't salute him or play other games it's a big indicator he has not earned their respect and officers in general are not well respected.  Those should be huge concerns for the company commander and 1SG.  It's a thin line of authority the machine operates on - let it degrade at your peril.

2. Faith got his first atmospherics about his unit with the best sensor he's got - his own sensors.  He learned - if he's got the wherewithal to notice - a lot about the Soldiers in the unit he's joining.  They have a decent level of comraderie and know the regs enough to manipulate them - reacting quickly at his approach and concocting a scheme to make his day worse.  They aren't willing to cross the line into outright disrespect and they've got good enough situational awareness to pay attention to what's going on.  Looks like he's going to a unit with a decent level of professionalism (knowing the basics well enough to manipulate them) and trust at the Soldier level (being willing to conspire on the fly).  But, an 'us and them' mentality towards leadership, an interest in playing games with leadership vs focusing on esprit and the job at hand, and the challenge inherent in what they're doing (to authority, to discipline) are opportunities for what can be corrected and improved in the unit.  The indicators to me are this is a unit he's going to need to 'out-Soldier the Soldiers' as a part of his introduction.  He needs to be one of the best PT'ers, make sure his uniform is strac, he's early for every formation, and he is prepared for every event (memorize the common task manual for what's going on the next day and get his PSG to practice with him if that's what it takes).  Those are good LT things to do anyway - but they're going to be critical here.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 28, 2017)

Knowing he had just been screwed with by a bunch of E4 Specialists, Faith laughed it off.  “Joe is as Joe does,” he thought as he made his way towards Delta Company.  He knew it wouldn’t be his last experience with the “Spec-4 Mafia.”  He would be ready the next time, he thought to himself as he grinned, remembering the times he and his military junior college buddies did the same thing to their upperclassmen.
Delta Company’s building was actually only a portion of one long, continuous building that housed, in turn, Headquarters Company, Alpha Company, Bravo Company, and Charlie Company before terminating with Delta.  As he passed Charlie Company, a specialist emerged and saluted sharply.  “Good evening, sir,” he said enthusiastically.  Faith returned the salute and the sentiment.  The other man looked vaguely familiar.  “Probably someone I saw during inprocessing,” he thought idly as he made his way past.  But damn, that guy looked familiar.  

“Private Faith!” the other man exclaimed.  That voice sounded familiar too.  Faith turned around.   The specialist he had just passed was now facing him, feet together, right fist clenched and right arm parallel to the ground.  On the ring finger of his right hand was a large class ring.  It was exactly like the one Faith wore on his own hand.  How did this guy have the same ring?  And no one called him “Private Faith” since…

“Do you not recognize your upperclassmen there, ‘new shoes’?” he asked mockingly, using a term for new cadets unique to the small military junior college Faith attended nearly five years ago.  Faith looked at the other man for a moment in stunned silence.

“Holy shit, Sergeant Major Sherman?”  he asked incredulously.  It _was_ him.  This was the man responsible for training Faith when he first arrived at Middle Georgia Military College.  More correctly, this was the man who hazed the crap out of Faith during the infamous “Plebe Period” that marked the start of every freshman’s time at MGMC.  That school was a two-year military junior college, designed to produce officers for the Georgia National Guard in a mere two years.  Others, like Faith, attended MGMC to have another, better shot at attending one of the service academies.  Faith and Sherman were never close, but Faith knew him as a standup guy.  Still shocked, Faith raised his own right hand and bumped rings with Sherman, who was now no longer a cadet command sergeant major but an active duty Army specialist.

“Um… what happened?” Faith asked, looking at Sherman’s collar insignia.  He knew Sherman had been commissioned as a second lieutenant of Infantry; Faith was present when Sherman received his gold bars and recited the Oath of Office.  Going from an O1 to an E4 was career progression in the exact wrong direction.

“What? Oh,” said Sherman with a smile.  “It’s all good.  I’m still a first lieutenant in the Reserves, but I’m a Specialist on active duty,” the other man responded. 

Faith couldn’t help but look skeptical.  How could someone be simultaneously a first lieutenant AND a specialist?  More likely, he never finished his four-year degree and got his commission yanked.  There was a story there, and Faith was determined to get it.  But probably not right now.  After exchanging obligatory “remember the time” vignettes for a minute or two, the men went their separate ways.

“Good afternoon, Faith, I mean Sir!” Sherman said, again saluting and then departing towards the battalion headquarters building.

“Uh, yeah, you too Sergeant Maj… I mean Specialist Sherman,” Faith stammered, returning the salute. 

“In your mind, people stay the same rank they were when you first met them,” Faith thought, remembering something his father once told him.

Wow, that was weird, Faith thought.  He never liked Sherman, but respected him.  The man was not known for embellishing the truth. But what he just said didn’t make the slightest bit of sense.  Short of some kind of misconduct, how could someone who got his commission into the Georgia National Guard end up as an enlisted soldier on active duty?  It didn’t make any sense.  Faith thought there was a whole lot more to this story.  He hoped he’d be able to find out what it was.  But for now, he needed to get himself together to meet his new company commander and, hopefully, his new platoon. 

(end)

1)  What do you think about this situation?  Sherman didn’t have  reputation for being a liar, but how can what he said be true?  How can someone be both an officer and an enlisted man?

2)  What kinds of things should Faith be thinking about as he nears his new company?  If he gets a platoon today, what should he say/do in that first encounter?


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## DA SWO (Sep 28, 2017)

1. Guard Officers have a dual commission, Sherman may have not gotten Federal Recognition.

2. Introduce himself, minimal background info and get with leadership to spin up for NTC.  Tell the NCO's he is in the observe/ask questions mode for the next week or so as he in-processes.

ETA: he also has to avoid becoming too friendly with the now Specialist.


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## CDG (Sep 28, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> 1. Guard Officers have a dual commission, Sherman may have not gotten Federal Recognition.
> 
> 2. Introduce himself, minimal background info and get with leadership to spin up for NTC.  Tell the NCO's he is in the observe/ask questions mode for the next week or so as he in-processes.



100% agree.  Faith wouldn't know about dual commissions, so I think he's ok to ask the CO CC about it, provided he goes about it in the right way.  "Hey sir, SPC Sherman was with me at college.  He mentioned he's an O in the Reserves, but a SPC on AD.  For my own professional knowledge, how does that work?"


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## Gunz (Sep 28, 2017)

1. Don't push it, it's curious but not that important. No doubt some of the O's in the BN will know the circumstances and the truth will out eventually.

2. Right now concentrate on getting acclimated, meet your superiors and subordinates, ask questions, snap in.


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## Il Duce (Sep 28, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> “Um… what happened?” Faith asked, looking at Sherman’s collar insignia.



He's wearing rank on his collar?  Wonder what year his uniform is from :).

1. Faith shouldn't think too much more about it.  However they knew each other before Faith is an officer and this guy is a SPC.  It's probably worth talking with his PL or the S1 sometime and get the ground truth from his records - in case the SPC tries to rope LT Faith into any fabrications.  Sounds like BS to me - especially involving Reserves, maybe ARNG is different - but busting the platoon liar is not LT Faith's primary responsibility.  Tuck it in the back for information later - and understand that's the last time he should reminisce about old times with a SPC until he's been in the unit and established himself much more firmly.

2. He needs to be in receive mode - observe everything, maintain his bearing.  Report to the Company CDR, if he asks let him know you're eager to get started, and make sure you know whatever in-processing shit is expected on what timeline.  Faith needs to make sure when he shows up to his platoon he can easily plan and manage the time he needs to be away from them.  He needs to establish any hard due outs to the CDR and 1SG (initial counseling, equipment issue, hand-receipt timeline, meetings/events he has to attend) and needs whatever they can give him on his platoon (hand receipt, alpha roster, personnel files, training records, METL, and most importantly training schedule).

He should then make a B-line for his PSG.  Get the platoon training schedule through movement to NTC to get ground truth (make sure to check it against the published training schedule to get an idea how it's matching up).  Set a time to sit down with the PSG and get the lay of the platoon and a time to do initial counseling - probably at different times since I doubt Faith is ready to counsel immediately.

If I were him I'd want to introduce myself to the platoon - but not disrupt what is likely a very busy schedule.  Something key to discuss with the PSG.  He should plan to sit down and counsel at least his squad leaders before departure to NTC.  He's mostly going to want to stay out of the way these next 10 days - integrating into training where he can (especially PT).  But he needs to be getting smart on what they'll execute at NTC because he'll be in charge for those ops - not much he can do but fuck up prep before then.  He should get the T&EOs for every task they're going to execute before he racks out and carry that with him everywhere to be studying - alongside his battle book he should have built from all the info he collected at the company (alpha roster, training records, personnel records).


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## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 28, 2017)

Scotty needs to drink alot, work out hard, take care of his men and listen to his NCO's.  Why is this a case study!?!??!


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> “Um… what happened?” Faith asked, looking at Sherman’s collar insignia. He knew Sherman had been commissioned as a second lieutenant of Infantry; Faith was present when Sherman received his gold bars and recited the Oath of Office. Going from an O1 to an E4 was career progression in the exact wrong direction.



I was 100% convinced (and likely would have wagered cash) that in this scenario, Sherman's response was going to be:
_Sherman paused for a moment, glanced at Faith's missing Ranger tab, then at his own tabbed sleeve and replied to Faith, "Um...what happened?"_


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## Marauder06 (Sep 29, 2017)

As several people mentioned, the military has a "dual component" program wherein one can simultaneously hold one rank in the Reserves and another on active duty.  I found that out though a situation very similar to the fictional one described in this case study.  One of my classmates from Georgia Military College received an early commission when we graduated, we went our separate ways, I saw him again about three years later when I was a PL in the 101st and he was a specialist in an adjacent company.  He explained the dual component thing to me, but I didn't completely believe him until I talked with my dad about it.  At the time, my father was in command of a unit that later became known as "Task Force Orange," and he told me one of his master sergeants was a major in the Reserves.

Fast forward a few (ok, a lot of) years later, and the JSOC CSM was also dual component.  He was a CPT in the Reserves.  When I asked him about it, he laughed and said he was literally the oldest CPT in the Army.  I don't think he was kidding.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 29, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I was 100% convinced (and likely would have wagered cash) that in this scenario, Sherman's response was going to be:
> _Sherman paused for a moment, glanced at Faith's missing Ranger tab, then at his own tabbed sleeve and replied to Faith, "Um...what happened?"_



I haven't decided if Sherman is Ranger Qualified or not.  Should he be?  It wasn't common in that type of unit for a young SPC to have gone to Ranger School at the time this story takes place.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 29, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I haven't decided if Sherman is Ranger Qualified or not.  Should he be?  It wasn't common in that type of unit for a young SPC to have gone to Ranger School at the time this story takes place.



Your story, and I did not intend to derail it by inserting my own scenario.   Faith appears to be taking his "non-Ranger" lumps at every turn, and then you introduce Sherman being from the same school, commissioned as an infantry officer, and now seemingly an enlisted man.

 I thought you were setting us up for Sherman being out of line with an officer, an officer who he has history with, and then going to ask, _"how should Faith respond...."_


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## Marauder06 (Sep 29, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Your story, and I did not intend to derail it by inserting my own scenario.   Faith appears to be taking his "non-Ranger" lumps at every turn, and then you introduce Sherman being from the same school, commissioned as an infantry officer, and now seemingly an enlisted man.
> 
> I thought you were setting us up for Sherman being out of line with an officer, an officer who he has history with, and then going to ask, _"how should Faith respond...."_




That would probably be a better story line.  Maybe it will be in the remix ;)


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> As several people mentioned, the military has a "dual component" program wherein one can simultaneously hold one rank in the Reserves and another on active duty.  I found that out though a situation very similar to the fictional one described in this case study.  One of my classmates from Georgia Military College received an early commission when we graduated, we went our separate ways, I saw him again about three years later when I was a PL in the 101st and he was a specialist in an adjacent company.  He explained the dual component thing to me, but I didn't completely believe him until I talked with my dad about it.  At the time, my father was in command of a unit that later became known as "Task Force Orange," and he told me one of his master sergeants was a major in the Reserves.
> 
> Fast forward a few (ok, a lot of) years later, and the JSOC CSM was also dual component.  He was a CPT in the Reserves.  When I asked him about it, he laughed and said he was literally the oldest CPT in the Army.  I don't think he was kidding.



As an aside to the dual enrollment bit, it's pretty difficult to pull off.  I've never seen it, and it's been a bit of an urban legend.  Any numbers one how many folks are in active service under that?


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## Marauder06 (Sep 29, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> As an aside to the dual enrollment bit, it's pretty difficult to pull off.  I've never seen it, and it's been a bit of an urban legend.  Any numbers one how many folks are in active service under that?



No idea at all how many people this affects, or even it it's still a thing anymore.  However, it's absolutely not an urban legend:  http://www.whs.mil/library/mildoc/AR 600-39, 12 November 1984.pdf


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## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2017)

It's quite a bizarre concept in many ways.


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## Kraut783 (Sep 29, 2017)

Wow, your father has a very interesting past Marauder. I always found TF Orange and it's, continued, mission interesting.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 30, 2017)

You can hold a dual commission in the NG & RA, but you cannot serve in both components at the same time. So no, he would not be able to be an RA SPEC4 and a NG 1LT. I'd agree he probably didn't finish his degree and had his commission pulled. I'd agree with talking with his PL once you have settled into the unit, then confront the derp, once you have established yourself. Do it in private, and let him know you don't want to hear anymore bullshit stories about being a 1LT still, etc. He is probably thinking he can get some form of favoritism or special treatment by doing that, better to nip that shit in the butt. 

Introduce yourself to the company commander and follow his advice to the "T". Be humble and eyes and ears open, mouth shut.

Talk to the PGS, be humble and let him know you are open to learning from his experince, let him set up the intro to the troops as he knows the schedule and formation time lines, keep it short and sweat. Stay humble, and follow your PSG and SL's advice and experince. Obviously double check, and assert your athourity and command as needed, but the NSO's have the experince and knowledge, and you are currently behind the 8 ball.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 2, 2017)

Faith approached the front of the Delta Company headquarters building, a single-story brick building that was unremarkable in pretty much every way.  Everything looked dark.  He tried the door and found it locked.  Perplexed, he tried the door again.  Same result.  Faith took a step back and looked around.  People were moving in and out of the other three companies, but Delta seemed eerily quiet.  Faith checked his watch.  1730 hours, past normal “close of business,” he supposed.

At first Faith thought that this was some kind of new-guy hazing, that at any moment everyone was going to leap out yelling “Surprise!”  But then he realized how ridiculous this thought was.  There was simply no one there.  He’d have to try again tomorrow.

A small space between Charlie and Delta Companies was designated as the “Bulldog Gym.”  Faith saw some people in PT clothes going in and out, and figured if he could at least get a quick lift in, this day wouldn’t be a total bust.  His truck, holding his gym bag, was in the parking lot behind the row of company buildings.  Faith made his way behind the Delta Company building.  As he rounded the corner, he saw a freshly-washed HMMWV parked directly the open rear door to the company area.  It was a “gun truck,” a four-seater slope-backed machine with a rotating open turret suitable for mounting various machine guns and grenade/missile launchers.  It was painted in the same “woodland” camouflage pattern as Faith’s battle dress uniform.  “That’s going to be a lot better than walking everywhere,” Faith thought.

Clustered near the driver side wheel, in a place that could only be seen from the position Faith was now in, was a group of men dressed in Army physical training clothes, hard at work at something on the ground.  At first Faith thought that they were scrubbing the wheel. But then he noticed that the subject of their attentions was another Soldier.

Armed with scouring power, green abrasive pads, and long-handled brushes used to clean off the undercarriages of military vehicles, they were applying these tools, and a high-volume water hose, on a drenched and miserable-looking private.

At first, Faith thought nothing of it.  He had gone to a military college and was a fraternity man, and experienced his fair share of “initiation rites” and the “wetting down” ceremonies that celebrated military promotions.  This might even be something that the unit does for peoples’ birthdays.  He saw it before.  Faith started to walk past.  But then something about the look on the young man’s face gave him pause.

“What’s going on here?” he demanded.

Startled by his sudden appearance, the group paused for a moment.  “NCO business,” one of the older men replied before remembering to grudgingly add “sir.”

It certainly didn’t look like “NCO business” to Faith, unless NCOs were now responsible for physically mistreating their troops.  No one wears rank with PT uniforms, but from their apparent ages Faith guessed there were no more than 1 NCO, most likely the one who just informed him that this was “NCO business,” and the rest were junior enlisted. 

“No, really, what’s going on here,” Faith pressed.

“Private Pigpen here,” said the probable-NCO, “won’t take a shower.  Hasn’t taken a shower once in the month he has been here.  He is also a colossal fuck-up, which is why we’re here at 1730 on a Friday, after a week-long field problem, when the rest of the company has been released since noon.  Private Pigpen is now getting a lesson in how things work in Delta Company.”

That didn’t sit well with Faith.  He clearly didn’t know the whole story, and it was generally a bad idea to jump headlong into something when the facts weren’t clear.  This was his first day in a new unit, and these Soldiers might even be in his platoon.  What he did here next could have a long-term negative impact on his chances for success here in Delta.  But…

“OK, I think we’re done here.  The point has been made,” Faith said.  “Send Private Pigpen back to his room to get cleaned up and I’ll help you get all this stuff put away so we can all have a good weekend,” he offered.

“I don’t think we will,” said one particularly-surly younger soldier.  

“I’m sorry, what did you just say?” Faith asked.  He had just offered to brush this whole thing under the rug and to help them get out of here for the weekend.  And now this.  His first day at Delta Company was definitely NOT going as expected. 

“You know, Lieutenant,” another man said standing up and facing Faith, “It’s been a long day.  It’s been a long ten days.  We don’t have time for this, or for you.  You might want to just move on out.  No one comes down to this side of the battalion area, no one sees or hears anything down here.  You never know what might happen.”

“Wait, did that guy just threaten me?” Faith wondered to himself, startled.

Faith fought a sudden and barely-controlled urge to plant his giant MGMC ring squarely in the other man’s forehead.  Four years ago, a situation like this would have terrified him.  But that was four years ago.  Few things set him off more than being personally disrespected, and that was someone doing something cruel to another person.  It seemed that both things were happening right here, right now.

At Middle Georgia Military, it was a tradition to scratch a notch in the back of one’s ring for every fight the wearer was in, win or lose, while wearing the ring.  Faith’s ring only had three notches, but it looked like he was going to get another one.  It had been a long time since he fought more than one person at once, but he normally didn’t worry about things like odds, or even consequences, when it came to issues of principle.  His only regret right now was that he was about to scuff up his highly-polished jump boots.  After a scuffle like this one was about to be, it would probably take him hours to get them back up to standard.  Longer, if his eyes where black and swollen.

“Okay, game on,” Faith said.  He held the folder containing his orders and inprocessing documentation out to the side and dropped it.  It made a “smack” when it struck the concrete.  Faith began to undo the buttons of his uniform top; it would be too restrictive once he starting swinging.

The eyes of the man who threatened him grew wide.  

(end)

Discussion Questions

1)  What do you think is happening here?

2)  What action, if any, should “brand-new-to-the-Army, first-day-in-the-unit 2LT Faith take?


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## Il Duce (Oct 2, 2017)

I get from the camo pattern this is 15-20 years ago but I find it difficult to respond without today's standards.  I can understand some things were more 'acceptable' in earlier periods - but I think that's mostly just a euphemism for not enforcing standards.

With that said LT Faith's reactions here are causing me to lose faith in his potential as an officer.  He's ended in more-or-less the right spot but it took him way too long to get there and for the wrong reasons.

1. Hazing, that is what is going on.  Hazing is the most pernicious form of toxic leadership and must be stamped out.  Upon LT Faith's arrival gross insubordination, conduct unbecoming, dereliction of duty, and threatening of a superior officer ensued immediately.  

2. Faith is right to be prepared to engage in physical violence to protect this Soldier and maintain military authority.  This is no-shit life or death for Faith.  But, he waited way too long.

He should have immediately ordered a stop to the behavior, sent the Soldier to the medics, gotten the names of the Soldiers and NCOs involved, and removed the senior NCO for a private 'discussion' to be followed immediately by his putting everything down in a sworn statement.  If the Soldiers involved had cooperated Faith could have given the information to his CDR for localized discipline at the company/BN level.  As soon as resistance to his orders was met - and especially the implied threat of violence - he must send for the MPs.  The only way this ends is with the guy bowing up on him and the NCO in charge of this crime in MP custody - whether it's on their own two feet or after Faith has beaten them unconscious.


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## CDG (Oct 2, 2017)

I agree with everything @Il Duce said.  This is clearly hazing, and a fairly extreme form of it at that.  I can't fault a brand new LT, at his first CO, for being slightly unsure of how to handle such a complex situation with multiple troops.  I think he has handled it well up to this point.  I like that he is showing how far he is willing to go to protect a junior soldier, especially with bullies like these.  It's no wonder the BN CC mentioned WEP PLT chewing up a lot of LTs.  Faith needs to keep in mind that he is still an officer though. He called their bluff, but he can't throw a first punch.  However this incident plays out, Faith needs to present a clear, concise synopsis to the chain of command afterwards.  No sugarcoating, no trying to cover little things up to make it look not as bad, nothing like that.  This is bullshit of the highest order, and these troops have clearly gotten away with this sort of bullying for way too long.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 2, 2017)

CDG said:


> I agree with everything @Il Duce said.  .



I normally agree with everything Il Duce says.  It's a good policy.


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## SaintKP (Oct 2, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Faith approached the front of the Delta Company headquarters building, a single-story brick building that was unremarkable in pretty much every way.  Everything looked dark.  He tried the door and found it locked.  Perplexed, he tried the door again.  Same result.  Faith took a step back and looked around.  People were moving in and out of the other three companies, but Delta seemed eerily quiet.  Faith checked his watch.  1730 hours, past normal “close of business,” he supposed.
> 
> At first Faith thought that this was some kind of new-guy hazing, that at any moment everyone was going to leap out yelling “Surprise!”  But then he realized how ridiculous this thought was.  There was simply no one there.  He’d have to try again tomorrow.
> 
> ...




I'm just going to echo the great answers @CDG and @Il Duce have given. He needs to nip this in the butt immediately, if he wants to affect change and set a precedent for his time in the unit. I may not have had military experience but I have had a lot of management experience, and if his subordinates demonstrate a complete lack of respect and disregard for his rank it shows that there is an deep and ingrained lack of discipline in the unit. Especially if this occurred in something as hierarchical as the military. 

It's intimidating to go into a new command and have to affect change immediately if you're not used to it. But this event is a sign of other possible underlying issues in the unit when it comes to respect for command and needs to be addressed immediately through Cox. Once the proper authorities have been notified and Faith has demonstrated his ability to lead without being intimidated is whem he can start to practice effective leadership and can be a quality addition to his new unit/organisation.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 2, 2017)

Great answers so far.

Il Duce and I served together in real life, in a different unit, a few years after these fictional events.  We had a real-life petty tyrant bullshit bully field grade officer in that unit.  Might have to be its own case study later on.


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## Il Duce (Oct 2, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I normally agree with everything Il Duce says.  It's a good policy.



Tallness is a scourge upon our nation, the giants amongst us too long have gone unchallenged...


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## Il Duce (Oct 2, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Great answers so far.
> 
> Il Duce and I served together in real life, in a different unit, a few years after these fictional events.  We had a real-life petty tyrant bullshit bully field grade officer in that unit.  Might have to be its own case study later on.



In some ways I think a lot of those lessons and case studies from the unit we were in are more difficult - because a lot of things weren't as clear cut, or when you're not in the middle of it what do you do afterwards.  For example in this case study - what if you're another company commander, PL, or field grade LT Faith comes to about the incident?  If the BC and/or CC aren't taking care of their unit and enforcing standards what is your role?  Do you serve up a big bowl of martyr-roni going IG or making a stink - what happens to the unit you're running when you make a stink and those above you don't do the right thing?  If you're a new LT in the first place and things aren't so cut and dried how do you figure out the standard - you could just be learning about the 'real' Army.  What I'd be worried about in the situation here is not the E-6 that bows up on you - it's the PSG or 1SG who's tabbed out, decorated, and sidles up to the LT with an arm around the shoulder saying 'sure, I know it feels wrong but don't worry, I'm going to take care of you - you can win my respect if you fall in line with what I want.'  High potential leaders are in more danger from the devil that comes at you sideways than the one that hits you head on IMO.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 3, 2017)

1. Obviously hazing and clear disrespect to his authority, and a clear threat to his life. That said, I agree 2LT Faith should have given a clear order to stop immediately and taken the hazed private straight up to Btn Staff duty to fill out a sworn statement. 

2. He is in it now, get to whipping ass. Speed and pure violence of action. Better hope they back down, because shit is about to get painful.

However, 2LT Faith is IMHO bat shit crazy to take on a couple of Infantrymen by himself, he had better be one fighting SOB.


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## Devildoc (Oct 3, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> 1. Obviously hazing and clear disrespect to his authority, and a clear threat to his life. That said, I agree 2LT Faith should have given a clear order to stop immediately and taken the hazed private straight up to Btn Staff duty to fill out a sworn statement.
> 
> 2. He is in it now, get to whipping ass. Speed and pure violence of action. Better hope they back down, because shit is about to get painful.
> 
> However, 2LT Faith is IMHO bat shit crazy to take on a couple of Infantrymen by himself, he had better be one fighting SOB.



Generally what I thought, the last line I thought almost verbatim.....


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## Marauder06 (Oct 3, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Tallness is a scourge upon our nation, the giants amongst us too long have gone unchallenged...
> 
> Topic for another thread.



"Normally" agree with everything he says.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 4, 2017)

“Wait, did that guy just threaten me?” Faith wondered, startled.

Faith fought a sudden and barely-controlled urge to plant his giant MGMC ring squarely in the other man’s forehead.  Four years ago, a situation like this would have terrified him.  But that was four years ago.  At Middle Georgia Military, it was a tradition to scratch a notch in the back of one’s ring for every fight the wearer was in, win or lose, while wearing the ring.  Faith’s ring had three notches, and it looked like he was going to get another one.  It had been a long time since he fought more than one person at once, but he normally didn’t worry about things like odds, or even consequences, when it came to issues of principle.  His only regret right now was that he was about to scuff up his highly-polished jump boots.  After a scuffle like this one was about to be, it would probably take him hours to get them back up to standard.  Longer, if his eyes where black and swollen.

“Okay, game on,” Faith said.  He held the folder containing his orders and inprocessing documentation out to the side and dropped it.  It made a “smack” when it struck the concrete.  Faith began to undo the buttons of his uniform top; it would be too restrictive once he starting swinging.

The eyes of the man who threatened him grew wide.  

But, they weren’t focused on Faith.  They were focused on someone behind him.  Faith turned quickly, half-expecting an unseen assailant standing behind him.  There was, in fact, someone standing behind him, but he did not appear the slightest bit threatening.  The man was tall, with dark black skin and impossibly white teeth.  Sweat glistened from his shaved head and soaked into his gray PT uniform.  He held a small gym bag in his right hand, which he shifted to his left so he could render a sharp salute to Lieutenant Faith.

“Good evening sir,” he said.  “Sergeant First Class Edward Ellery from Delta Company.  I’ll take it from here.”  He was in action before Faith could say another word.

“You,” he said, pointing at Private Pigpen.  “Go back to your barracks room.  And for God’s sake, take a shower.”

“You,” he said, pointing to the youngest-looking member of the group who was attacking Pigpen.  “Get this cleaned up.  Put the vehicle back in the motor pool and put this,” he added, tossing his gym bag to the man, “in my office.  Don’t forget to make sure the back door is locked when you leave.”

“You three,” he said to the remaining individuals, “glad to see you’re in your PTs.  Come with me.  You’re about to have a very bad day.”

“Sergeant Ellery—“ one of the men began.

“Nope,” Ellery interrupted, “not another word.  You heard me.  Make it happen.”

As they began, slowly, to comply with his instructions, Ellery turned his attention back to Faith.

“New to the battalion, sir?” he inquired.  Faith nodded.  “Which company?”

“This one, actually,” Faith replied as he buttoned up his BDU top and picked back up his folder.  It had gotten a little wet but the contents seemed salvageable. 

“Oh, fantastic,” Ellery replied.  “I didn’t know we were expecting any new platoon leaders.  Great to have you on board,” he said with what appeared to be genuine enthusiasm as he shook Faith’s hand.  “Sergeant First Class Ellery, 5th Platoon.”

“These yours?” Faith asked, indicating the other men.

“No sir.  Well, I mean they’re mine for the next…” he checked his watch “hour or so.  And they’re fellow Delta Dogs, but no they’re not my Soldiers.”

Faith nodded.

“Well sir, glad to have you on board.  I’m going to do some retraining real quick and then call it a weekend.  See you here for PT at 0600 on Monday?” he inquired.  It had been a long day already, but Faith wondered if he should stick around.

(end)

Discussion Questions

1) What should Faith do now?  Should he put this in Sergeant Ellery’s hands, or stick around and see what happens?

2)  How should he prep for Monday, and should he bring this up to the First Sergeant or Company Commander when he in-processes Delta Company?


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## DA SWO (Oct 4, 2017)

NCO business, he needs to leave.

Have an informal chat with the 1st Sgt, but keep it in NCO channels as long as possible.


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## policemedic (Oct 4, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> I normally agree with everything Il Duce says.  It's a good policy.



I don’t always, but he is right here.  Faith erred with his ‘knock it off and I’ll help you clean up’ initial approach.


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## Il Duce (Oct 4, 2017)

This one is a tough twist.  I would still go through the same process mentioned earlier - but I would expect the LT to move out and follow-up with SFC Ellery later.

I think this is where you get into the 'what do you expect of a 2LT vs what do you expect of a more seasoned officer.'  I would expect any field grade officer, or senior CPT (company commander or beyond), to be entirely unsatisfied with SFC Ellery's intervention as the relative end of things.  Because, once you've gone past a certain point there must be more significant consequences - and the danger of poison in the NCO or WO chains as I mentioned before.  However, I would expect junior company grade officers - especially 2LTs - to almost always follow the lead of senior NCOs.  One of the critical functions of field grade NCOs (E7 and above in the Army) is officer development.  If you expect it you have to give them some room to do it.


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## SaintKP (Oct 4, 2017)

As managers were trained and constantly told to be open when it comes to inter personal issues, however it's generally accepted that unless the issue at hand is something extremely out of order or grievous that it's best to handle it in house.

He should leave it since it appears to be handled at the moment, however he should remember this moment and earmark it for future reference in case other events such as this occurs and if they do, then that would be time to notify the CoC because clearly the current process isn't working. Also I would suggest Faith to have an informal discussion with the SFC to get the rundown on the unit and the ins and outs of the various personal in it. Right now he has time to get a game plan formed in his head before he goes in blind.


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## SpitfireV (Oct 4, 2017)

The other thing that occurs to me is that the scrubbing was "NCO bidness" before so what's to say this isn't a similar bidness and the attitude is stemming from the senior NCOs?


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## compforce (Oct 4, 2017)

Move out, wait about 10 minutes and "happen" to stroll by a fair distance from the corrective training to see it happening without being obvious.  You don't know yet whether that E7 is actually backing you or running interference.  Trust but verify...  This is a new unit and you need intel on what's going on.  Spend the 10 minutes making notes about the incident to discuss with the CO/1SG.   

Offering to sweep it under the rug was a major mistake, this is an incident that has bodily injury all over it.  I served during the period when this was how squads would deal with people that didn't take personal hygiene seriously and I can tell you that many of the victims had scars afterwards.  Those brushes take the skin off.  Direct and forceful, the only way to deal with that.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 4, 2017)

1. Not so fast there SFC, I have observed a soldier being hazed/assaulted and I have been threatened by these soldiers. I will standby and observe the corrective training and we will discuss any further actions. 

Then back off and let SFC Ellery do his thing. Make sure they have proper corrective training. I would also require names/ranks/SS#'s on all involved, and make it known you expect written counselling on all. The keeping it NCO business is up to Pvt Stinky, as he was the one who was affected. 

You don't want to bring the house down with battalion or the MP's without even talking to the company Cdr. Especially being the new butter bar, but you also need to establish your authority as an officer in this matter, NCO's don't tell officers what to do. That doesn't mean you can't let him handle business, just means you give the orders.

2. Get the commanders phone number and call him follow his guidence. If he says see you Monday, show up in PT's for morning PT. Have your BDU's ready to change into, and your orders and documents ready for the clerk to process.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 4, 2017)

Really good responses so far.  I hope the younger military members of the board are learning from the experience of the people who are commenting on this thread.

As a young infantry lieutenant 20+ years ago, I walked up on a scene very much like the one described in this fictional case study.  The individuals involved were all in a different platoon.  Private Pigpen (I have no idea what his real name was) was the company problem child.  He literally never bathed.  He was a screwup in just about every way and I don't think it was an exaggeration to say that he was deeply disliked by everyone in the company, including me.

I was at work after hours one night, I don't remember why I might have had staff duty or something.  I found a couple of junior NCOs and soldiers giving Pigpen a bath behind the company area, as described in this story.  I had been in the unit a while, at least six months or so, I knew everyone involved and they all knew me.  I told them to knock it off; they grumbled about it but complied.  No one threatened me, that was pure embellishment for dramatic purposes.    

Sergeant First Class Ellery (not his real name) was my first platoon sergeant.  I'll leave it up to you to decide at the end of this case study whether he's a good one or a bad one.  @Il Duce already knows the answer in real life.

I may have mentioned the "scrubbing" incident to their platoon sergeant and mine the next day, but I didn't push it any further than that.

Regardless of his status as a first class fuckup, Pigpen was still a Soldier and more importantly, was a human being.  I should have done more.  And if you find yourself in a similar situation, in or out of the military, you should too.


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## SaintKP (Oct 4, 2017)

@Marauder06 You swayed my opinion on the matter, I think the reason I answered the way I did was because I've never had to deal with an instance such as that or even resembling physical harassment on that scale. However I know if I saw that in real life I would put a stop to it immediately, and go much further than what I answered and what Faith did in this scenario. I'm looking forward to more if these.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 4, 2017)

It was a totally different Army 20 years ago.  A lot of things that were tolerated, if not explicitly condoned, have rightfully been drummed out as a norm in our military.  Lots of things I saw, said, and did many years ago, I wouldn't even consider today.


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## compforce (Oct 4, 2017)

There's another spin on this that I witnessed back when I was a young private in the late 80's that still hadn't unlearned basic training.  Four NCO's, 1 E-5, 2 E-6s, and an E-7 were smoking an E-4.  The E-4 was the company fuckup and deserved a smoking.  What he didn't deserve was to have it happening on a 100+ degree (heat cat 5) day in the hottest part of the afternoon on black asphalt.  He ended up with third degree burns on his hands toes and knees (from pushups) as well as burns on his back(from flutter kicks).  Quite a few people walked by, but no one, officer or enlisted, said anything.  Today I'd probably have stepped in, E-1 or not.  Back then there was no chance.

What does that new private do now?  He runs the risk of being right there next to the E-4 if he says something.  It's one thing to be an officer in that situation, but what about a lower enlisted that is outranked by everyone else involved?  Now I understand that safety issues like that can be called out by anyone, but coming right out of basic it's an ethical dilemma.


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## trin (Oct 4, 2017)

Although I've been around the block a time or two, I'm learning a lot from this case study.  Most Air Force officers don't (or didn't when I was on AD) get to command anything until O-4, so I feel very behind the power curve now that I'm trying to learn the Army way.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 5, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> It was a totally different Army 20 years ago.  A lot of things that were tolerated, if not explicitly condoned, have rightfully been drummed out as a norm in our military.  Lots of things I saw, said, and did many years ago, I wouldn't even consider today.



I saw an PFC get smoked by a CPT.  He was the LRSD commander, and the PFC was new, he failed the EIB road March due to a knee injury from Airborne school, flutter kicks, Mountian climbers, pushups, etc. 

I always thought that was fucked up, and one of the reason I turned said CPT down when he asked me if I was interested in trying out.  In retrospect,  I should have tried out as it would have been a good unit to start off in, but hindsight and all that.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 5, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I saw an PFC get smoked by a CPT.  He was the LRSD commander, and the PFC was new, he failed the EIB road March due to a knee injury from Airborne school, flutter kicks, Mountian climbers, pushups, etc.
> 
> I always thought that was fucked up, and one of the reason I turned said CPT down when he asked me if I was interested in trying out.  In retrospect,  I should have tried out as it would have been a good unit to start off in, but hindsight and all that.



That dude sounds like a real dick.

 Individual and crew level collective training (and retraining) is mostly an NCO responsibility.  I don't recall ever smoking my troops except when it was something good-natured.   

Joe got smoked plenty when he deserved it, but not by me.  My experience has been that verbal spot corrections generally work just fine for officer corrections..


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## DA SWO (Oct 5, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I saw an PFC get smoked by a CPT.  He was the LRSD commander, and the PFC was new, he failed the EIB road March due to a knee injury from Airborne school, flutter kicks, Mountian climbers, pushups, etc.
> 
> I always thought that was fucked up, and one of the reason I turned said CPT down when he asked me if I was interested in trying out.  In retrospect,  I should have tried out as it would have been a good unit to start off in, but hindsight and all that.


My wife has a permanent profile because of a dickhead officer like this CPT.
10 mile road march the day after her knee surgery profile expired.  
Permanently breaking Soldiers seems to be a point of pride with 1st Sgts and Cdrs.


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## compforce (Oct 5, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> My wife has a permanent profile because of a dickhead officer like this CPT.
> 10 mile road march the day after her knee surgery profile expired.
> Permanently breaking Soldiers seems to be a point of pride with 1st Sgts and Cdrs.



I blame the doc for that one more than the CPT (but the CPT certainly has a portion of blame).  The profile should have either included sufficient rehab time or a new light duty one should have been issued as needed.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2017)

Today you have a recover period after injuries and I think the maximum is 90 days.  When I was an PL our PA had this rep of building out packets fot malingering Soldiers.  I'd suffered an injury in a previous unit and needed a slip for physical therapy about six months in, we talked, it was done.  What he didn't deal with was mechanically sound Soldiers who just wanted a free ride.  If you were injured he took care of you and he was one of the best PAs I've met.

With the Master Fitness Trainer course back units are getting wise.


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## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2017)

Not in the military, but in civilian life:  we had hired a new grad RN, actually a former Marine.  Our department was high strung...always very busy, high acuity, overworked, understaffed.  The guy was always behind, always the problem child, just not getting it, had a bad attitude, rubbed me the wrong way.  Our version of Private Pigpen.  The staff rode him mercilessly, and ordinarily I let it ride (you know, let the informal leadership do their thing).  But then, the NAs and ED techs got in it.  Wait a minute...that's a serious breach of etiquette.  They were feeding off the nurses' disdain for this guy, giving him a hard time, ordering him around.  That's where I put my foot down.  I pulled him into my office and had a heart-to-heart.  Turns out, part of his problem, he had serious hearing deficits (he had been in artillery).  I created a remedial training plan, sent him to occupational health, he got hearing aids, his performance got much, much better, and staff started warming up.  Unfortunately he never 'got it', but we had him transferred to a slower unit with our endorsement.  

What I learned from that: you are never on the sideline.  You are either in, or out.  Help these people when and if you can; if you can't, support their dignity if they need to move on.


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## Gunz (Oct 5, 2017)

It's hard for me to imagine this scenario in the Marine Corps ending with anything other than arrests and serious disciplinary action. Regardless of rank, 2nd Lt or Company First Sgt,  those conducting "NCO business" would've quickly found their world crashing down around them, weeks and possibly months of legal entanglements...and quite possibly reduction in rank for the NCO "in charge" of the bath party. Pvt. Pigpen would have been checked by a Corpsman for possible injuries sustained and then escorted to the showers by the Duty Officer and supervised while performing correct sanitary procedures.

Command is not a popularity contest. Faith needed to take charge, read the riot act to the insubordinate NCO, summon MPs if necessary and not worry about whether or not his men are going to like him. Let them disrespect you with insubordination at your first encounter and they'll perceive you as a weak suck...and it will be a long time before you ever get their respect.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 5, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> It's hard for me to imagine this scenario in the Marine Corps ending with anything other than arrests and serious disciplinary action. Regardless of rank, 2nd Lt or Company First Sgt,  those conducting "NCO business" would've quickly found their world crashing down around them, weeks and possibly months of legal entanglements...and quite possibly reduction in rank for the NCO "in charge" of the bath party. Pvt. Pigpen would have been checked by a Corpsman for possible injuries sustained and then escorted to the showers by the Duty Officer and supervised while performing correct sanitary procedures.
> 
> Command is not a popularity contest. Faith needed to take charge, read the riot act to the insubordinate NCO, summon MPs if necessary and not worry about whether or not his men are going to like him. Let them disrespect you with insubordination at your first encounter and they'll perceive you as a weak suck...and it will be a long time before you ever get their respect.



I agree with everything you wrote. Only problem is, a new 2LT can definitely dig himself into a hole going full frontal on something like this without the company and battalion leadership behind him. Especially being the brand new guy, it's a bad way to start off. The chain may back his play, but when shit gets fucked up for the BN Cdr, or Co Cdr, that shit will role down hill in more ways than one. Bad evauls, being isolated, ostrichized, shit assignments where you are set up to fail. Your career can be killed pretty quick with a vindictive chain of command and that's not all that uncommon in the Army, especially in the Infantry,  especially where this type of stuff is viewed as Infantry being Infantry.

Doesn't make it right, but it's still a minefield without markers that needs to be navigated properly.


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## Gunz (Oct 5, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I agree with everything you wrote. Only problem is, a new 2LT can definitely dig himself into a hole going full frontal on something like this without the company and battalion leadership behind him. Especially being the brand new guy, it's a bad way to start off. The chain may back his play, but when shit gets fucked up for the BN Cdr, or Co Cdr, that shit will role down hill in more ways than one. Bad evauls, being isolated, ostrichized, shit assignments where you are set up to fail. Your career can be killed pretty quick with a vindictive chain of command and that's not all that uncommon in the Army, especially in the Infantry,  especially where this type of stuff is viewed as Infantry being Infantry.
> 
> Doesn't make it right, but it's still a minefield without markers that needs to be navigated properly.



Rog that...I can see that happening. I think it's a bit different in the Corps, in terms of how Junior NCOs and enlisted respond to officers, even butterbars...because fear of consequences is drummed into the heads of Marines from Day One. And I believe Marine 2nd Lts come from IOC with more confidence in their authority than I see in this scenario. 

And my apologies for injecting Marine opinion into an Army case study.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 5, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> because fear of consequences is drummed into the heads of Marines from Day One.



I agree with this completely. When I came out of Bootcamp I believed that Lance Corporals  were"The Corps".  And some might argue that they are, but I cannot imagine lipping off to someone who outranked me, much less an officer.  Period.


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## Gunz (Oct 5, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I agree with this completely. When I came out of Bootcamp I believed that Lance Corporals  were"The Corps".  And some might argue that they are, but I cannot imagine lipping off to someone who outranked me, much less an officer.  Period.



Absolutely. When they tell you to take the hill you say aye aye sir, and you take the hill.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 5, 2017)

I agree, and I think the Army as a whole could stand to learn some lessons from the discipline found in units like Ranger Regiment and the Marine corps. One of the key differences is the small size vs the large size of the Army. The Army hasn't been as selective in recruitment, discipline has fallen in the basic training and within units, due to manning problems. It really ultimately falls on the leadership, but there are a LOT of institutionalized problems in this specific subject, that are probably a bit too broad for the scope of this case study.

The same way the RFS'd Commie Ranger turned 2LT slipped through the cracks of one of our best Military institutions. Recruitment, selectivness and discipline has fallen pretty sharply in the Army. I unfortunately experienced this on a much grander scale in the National Guard, and have bared witness to how it can get soldiers killed in combat.

@Ocoka, brother your experience and knowledge is always welcome. These types of case studies always bring out the best of members opinions, and great learning tools for young leaders, for exactly the reason of varying opinions, experience and knowledge.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 5, 2017)

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.  The Marine Corps has plenty of hazing problems of its own, *especially* in Boot Camp.  In the last few years, a Marine drill stuffed a recruit into a hot dryer.  The same drill later hazed a different recruit so bad that he lept off a balcony, sustaining injuries that killed him.  One recruit had to get skin grafts for chemical burns suffered during an incident in which he had to undergo a smoke session on a bleach-soaked floor underneath a laundry cart.  Other Drills got busted for beating recruits with tent poles and forcing them to jump headfirst into trash cans.  There are numerous other examples.

And this type of thing has been going on a long time in the Corps, just like it has in all of the services. 

As far as the lipping off/disrespect/threatening, to reiterate:  that part was a complete fabrication that I made up to make the story more interesting.


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## Serenity (Oct 5, 2017)

The non military person here...

While I loved hearing @Ocoka 's zero tolerance attitude, it was actually all the Marine Corp activities as mentioned in @Marauder06 's above examples that first brought hazing in the military to my attention.  I was quite sickened in reading the articles, and through that, I read up on problems experienced in the Australian Navy many years ago.  I wouldn't have thought any branch of the military would be exempt from these kinds of abuses, especially when young people are involved.  I look back to my younger self and I think I would have been frightened and felt helpless in these kinds of scenario, I was pretty hopeless then.  It wasn't until I got into the workforce that I developed any confidence, but if I didn't like a situation, I knew I could always find a new place - which I did with zero consequence and explain it to be a learning experience to the new place.  When I read about hazing for these victims, I never get the sense that the decision to walk away is so easy or without consequence.

Anyway, I'll be quiet again.  I'm supposed to pay attention to lane reservations and etc.  But I will say I got the same horrible feeling reading this case study as I did when reading reports on hazing.  Wonderful case study and feedback, this is currently my favorite SS thread.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 6, 2017)

Faith considered his options for a moment.  Ordinarily, he’d tell them all to wait until he got changed into his PT clothes, and then partake in whatever smoke session was about to go down.   That would serve the dual purpose of getting his PT in for the day, and ensuring whatever was about to happen didn’t get too far out of control.  There was also the possibility that Sergeant Ellery wasn’t going to do anything about this situation.  Heck, there was a possibility that this guy wasn’t even “Sergeant “Ellery” at all.  For all Faith knew, this person was just a guy with sweaty PTs and nice teeth.

“Yep, see you at PT,” Faith said, deciding to take Ellery at face value.  Ellery saluted a final time, Faith returned it and began making his way towards his truck.  Private Pigpen was already gone and the other soldiers were moving to comply with Sergeant Ellery’s instructions.  Faith gave what he hoped was a particularly menacing glare towards those who remained.  They didn’t look particularly impressed.

Monday morning came quickly.  PT started at 0600, but Faith made sure he got there early.  Even though it was early, the Kentucky heat was already on the rise.  At about 0545, Faith noticed a few soldiers starting to mill around in a small field off to the side of Delta Company.  A few minutes later, Faith emerged from his truck, locked it, and placed the key under the floormat in the truck bed.  This way he’d have nothing in his hands or in his pockets during PT.  His dog tags rattled against his chest as he made his way towards the field and he shook out his hands to deal with the nervous energy he felt as he prepared for his first-ever “real” PT session.

As he approached the group, he saw no one that he recognized.  At least, there was no one from Friday’s incident with Private Pigpen.  But he did notice one or two of the specialists who pulled the “now you have to salute us all” prank on him.  Faith smiled to himself.  Dressed in gray PT clothes with no visible name and no trappings of rank, none of them seemed to recognize him.  Approximately ten minutes before 0600, the troops began to straggle into lines and form something that began to look like a formation.  Not seeing SFC Ellery and not knowing where else to go, Faith assumed a position centered on and about two steps behind the formation.  At about five minutes out, individuals that Faith assumed were NCOs got accountability for their squads.  The leader of the fourth squad, the one closest to Faith, approached him and stuck out his hand.

“Good morning sir,” he said.  “Staff Sergeant Spencer David, Fourth Squad.”  He exchanged salutes with Faith and then shook his hand.

“Nice to meet you, Sergeant David,” Faith replied.  “How did you know I was an officer?”  In their physical fitness uniforms, there was no rank differentiation.

David grinned.  “What else would you be, sir?” he asked rhetorically.  Faith hoped he meant that as some kind of compliment.  David had a professional demeanor and an easy smile.  Faith liked him immediately.  Before they had a chance to talk more, Faith saw SFC Ellery approaching the front of the formation.

At his arrival, before he even said a word, conversation ceased and the lines tightened up, even though the soldiers were still at ease.  At precisely 0600, a cannon boomed in the distance and a recording of Reveille began to sound.  

“Fall in!” SFC Ellery commanded.  Immediately, all of the men in the formation snapped to a rigid position of attention.  “Present, arms!”  As one, the troops saluted and held it through the duration of the song.  While Reveille played, Faith wondered where the rest of the company was.  While he could see Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie Companies off in the distance, this platoon seemed to be the only one from Delta Company that was doing PT.  Or at least, they were the only ones doing PT in this area.

After the music faded, SFC Ellery gave the command “Order, Arms.”  This was all pretty typical so far, Faith had gone through this same routine at least a hundred times during ROTC and in Infantry Officer Basic. But then SFC Ellery did something that Faith didn’t expect.  

“About, face!”  At this command, the entire formation turned and was now facing Faith.  Technically, Faith should have turned around also since he was ostensibly part of the formation, but this move was so unexpected he remained in place.  Feeling like an idiot, with everyone looking expectantly at him, he started to turn so at least he’d be facing the same way as everyone else.  But just before he did, he heard Ellery begin to speak.

“5th Platoon, this is Second Lieutenant Scott Faith.  He’s new to Delta Company and comes to us by way of ROTC at Middle Georgia Military College and Macon University.  Let’s give him a warm Mad Dog welcome!”  This exhortation was followed by a series of enthusiastic barks and howls from the assembled men.  After a few seconds of this, Ellery again commanded “About, face!” to get everyone facing him again.  When they, as one, complied, he gave another order:  “Extend to the left… march!” and with that, Faith’s first experience in a “real” unit began.

“Did I just meet my platoon for the first time?”  Faith wondered as he participated in the stretching exercises and calisthenics.  If he had, it seemed kind of anti-climactic.  He expected something… different.  And how did SFC Ellery know where he went to school?  It didn’t come up when he met him on Friday.  That was weird.  Whatever, it was time to put that aside and concentrate on killing it physically for the next hour and a half.

(end)

Discussion Questions

1)  Where is the rest of Delta Company?

2)  Is this Faith’s platoon?  No one said anything to him about it.

3)  How does SFC Ellery know so much about Faith?  Is that kind of creepy?

4)  Should Faith pull SFC Ellery aside after PT to talk more about Friday’s incident?


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## Gunz (Oct 6, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.  The Marine Corps has plenty of hazing problems of its own, *especially* in Boot Camp.  In the last few years, a Marine drill stuffed a recruit into a hot dryer.  The same drill later hazed a different recruit so bad that he lept off a balcony, sustaining injuries that killed him.  One recruit had to get skin grafts for chemical burns suffered during an incident in which he had to undergo a smoke session on a bleach-soaked floor underneath a laundry cart.  Other Drills got busted for beating recruits with tent poles and forcing them to jump headfirst into trash cans.  There are numerous other examples.
> 
> And this type of thing has been going on a long time in the Corps, just like it has in all of the services.
> 
> As far as the lipping off/disrespect/threatening, to reiterate:  that part was a complete fabrication that I made up to make the story more interesting.



Yes, Sir, granted...the Corps has had a history of hazing abuse. I guess I was describing the ideal response. I can still feel my blood stripes.


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## R.Caerbannog (Oct 6, 2017)

1.) Maybe the rest of Delta is out on a weekend field exercise or they're doing a ruck march and met at an alternate location.
2.) Probably his platoon. Weapons usually ends up doing their own pt half the time anyway.
3.) Faith's old friend from college probably spilled the beans. After the pigpen incident, Faith probably earned a rep due to his handling of that situation. Infantry companies tend to be sort of tribal in a way, or someone is CID
4.) Yes, a talk would definitely be useful to get the identities of the kiddos who were involved as they are not at PT.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 6, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Discussion Questions
> 
> 1)  Where is the rest of Delta Company?
> 
> ...



This goes back to why he didn't check in with his Commander before that weekend.  Most Commanders and 1SGs don't just hit tail lights at close of business on Fridays, and his commander was expecting him.

3) When I got to my platoon the NCOs knew where I'd gone to school.  I don't know how it was relevant, but most PSGs and Squad Leaders tend to place a higher expectation on the tactical decision making processes of a West Point/SMC graduate than they do a regular state college graduate.


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## Devildoc (Oct 6, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.  The Marine Corps has plenty of hazing problems of its own, *especially* in Boot Camp.  In the last few years, a Marine drill stuffed a recruit into a hot dryer.  The same drill later hazed a different recruit so bad that he lept off a balcony, sustaining injuries that killed him.  One recruit had to get skin grafts for chemical burnssuffered during an incident in which he had to undergo a smoke session on a bleach-soaked floor underneath a laundry cart.  Other Drills got busted for beating recruits with tent poles and forcing them to jump headfirst into trash cans.  There are numerous other examples.
> 
> And this type of thing has been going on a long time in the Corps, just like it has in all of the services.
> 
> As far as the lipping off/disrespect/threatening, to reiterate:  that part was a complete fabrication that I made up to make the story more interesting.



Truth.  The Corps made hazing the _en vogue_ thing to do, especially starting post-WWII, and no service has been immune to it.  Bad apples in leadership and followership in every branch.


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## Devildoc (Oct 6, 2017)

As to number 3, if I knew we were getting a new OIC/PC/whatever, and I knew a name, I would always to a little research.  Forewarned is forearmed.  I usually didn't get to the cellular level like Ellery did, but I'd get enough.


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## Il Duce (Oct 6, 2017)

Faith seems way out on a limb here - no wonder he is clueless.  He needs to check in with his company commander ASAP.  The BC might have told him he's taking that platoon but if some LT showed up to take over a platoon in a company I commanded without checking in with me first that joker would wish SFC Ellery were around the smoke him.


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## trin (Oct 6, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> He needs to check in with his company commander ASAP.


I agree.  This is making me uneasy about the whole situation, especially with what has transpired so far.  Is it not SOP to check in with your unit, and especially your direct supervisor  as soon as you arrive on station?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 6, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Discussion Questions
> 
> 1)  Where is the rest of Delta Company?
> 
> ...



1. Good question for SFC Ellery.

2. Nope, not until the commander says it is.

3.No doubt he checked you out, any good platoon daddy would. Creepy? Not really, he is simply letting you know he did his homework on you.

4. 2LT Faith needs to pull him aside before PT, and find out where the commander is. Do PT and IMMEDIATELY process into the company. After processed in, met with commander and having his marching orders,  then talk about yesterday's drama.


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## trin (Oct 16, 2017)

Hoping for the next installment soon. . .


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## digrar (Oct 16, 2017)

trin said:


> Hoping for the next installment soon. . .



You're new here aren't you...


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## CDG (Oct 16, 2017)

trin said:


> Hoping for the next installment soon. . .


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## Marauder06 (Oct 22, 2017)

“5th Platoon, this is Second Lieutenant Scott Faith.  He’s new to Delta Company and comes to us by way of ROTC at Middle Georgia Military College and Macon University.  Let’s give him a warm Mad Dog welcome!”  This exhortation was followed by a series of enthusiastic barks and howls from the assembled men.  After a few seconds of this, Ellery again commanded “About, face!” to get everyone facing him again.  When they, as one, complied, he gave another order:  “Extend to the left… march!” and with that, Faith’s first experience in a “real” unit began.

“Did I just meet my platoon for the first time?”  Faith wondered as he participated in the stretching exercises and calisthenics.  If he had, it seemed kind of anti-climactic.  He expected something… different.  And how did SFC Ellery know where he went to school?  It didn’t come up when he met him on Friday.  That was weird.  Whatever, it was time to put that aside and concentrate on killing it physically for the next hour and a half.

Faith breezed through the calisthenics and stretching exercises as well as the upper body training.  It was thorough, but not particularly taxing.  He certainly had been through tougher PT sessions in the Officer Basic Course and even some days in ROTC.  This was, conveniently, “abs day,” which was great because Faith prided himself on his lower body strength.  Nonetheless, by the time he was through he knew he was going to feel this PT session tomorrow.

When calisthenics were complete, the platoon formed back up and closed ranks.  Sergeant Ellery once again took his place at the head of the formation.

“The next exercise will be…” he paused for dramatic effect “the ability group run!”  a series of good-natured groans emanated from the assembled group.  “Ready, move!” Ellery commanded.  With this, the platoon split into four roughly-equal groups and began to stretch on their own in anticipation of the upcoming run.  It wasn’t clear which group Faith should go with, and he started to walk over to Ellery to ask, he was stopped by Sergeant David.  “Want to run with us, sir?” he asked with a smile.  

“Yeah, OK,” Faith responded.  And off they went.  This was a “last one up” run, in which the group formed one long line and at a signal given by Sergeant David, the last man in the formation sprinted to the front. 

When the run started, Sergeant David was behind Faith and struck up a conversation with Faith, filling him in about things like unit lore, the different Soldiers in the company, and the significance of buildings he was passing.  He also asked faith a few general “getting to know you” questions.  In between sprints to the front of the line, Faith answered Sergeant David’s questions and posed a few of his own.  But the pace was brutal, and even though he was in pretty good shape, Faith began to feel winded.  At about three miles in, Faith stopped asking his own questions and at about five miles he stopped responding, except through a series of grunts.

At last, the group made the final turn back to the company area.  Ahead, Faith could see the other ability groups had already returned and were doing cool-down stretches.  “Everyone on line!” Sergeant David called.  Still running, the group lined up abreast so that everyone was even.  Then Sergeant David called out, “Finish is the corner of the Delta Company headquarters building.   And… go!”  At his command, everyone took off running.  Faith ran as hard as he could, determined to be the first to reach the finish line.  He wasn’t.  He finished third out of about nine people, a close finish to be sure but third nonetheless.  As he crossed the line, he could feel what was coming next.  He blew past the finish line corner and turned it, hoping he could conceal the fact that he was about to throw up.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 22, 2017)

As far as the running is concerned, well, a new platoon always tries to size up their PL/PC when he comes in.  Often times we're told we better be the most fit.  Never be in the middle third or bottom third of your platoon's PT scores.  Sounds like he needs to run more on the weekends.

And he better find his Company Commander and check in, like yesterday.


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## medicchick (Oct 22, 2017)

Sooo, still no check-in with his CO?  Why not check all the doors and find CQ on Friday?


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## digrar (Dec 20, 2017)




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## SaintKP (Dec 20, 2017)




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## BloodStripe (Dec 20, 2017)




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## 256 (Jan 29, 2018)

Hoping I did this correctly..
I have not been to Ranger School, let me make that clear. I regret not going all the time.


1) Why is having a Ranger Tab so important in an Infantry unit? Does it have the same meaning in other units?

I see the military as a fraternity. As you move into each specific MOS or career field the fraternity grows smaller. With each individual unit inside those career fields, the fraternity grows smaller still. This is why I believe that Ranger Tab is so important to the Infantry, especially Officers. The Ranger Tab to me says a lot about a potential leader. It means you can go without sleep, food, and water while still leading men in Military operations. It's a simple way to identify who can be relied on. Reliability is essential when most everyone you meet in the Military is a stranger. I would struggle to give a man I have no background with the responsibility of the lives of 40 men. When you look at the Ranger Tab as a very small fraternity inside of the Armed Forces, it means I have something in common with you. It says the thing I have in common with you was a thing I had a hard time getting through myself. I can rely on the fact Ranger Instructors are going to ensure quality leadership skills are hammered into you during some of the toughest conditions possible before you get to me. In short, the Ranger Tab says, "you and I aren't foreign, we share life experience, and I can rely on you."

As for the second part to that question, it certainly does. For an enlisted soldier (seemed to me Officers were required) when I was in 3rd Styrker BDE it wasn't a high priority. When I got to 4th BDE (Light) 4th ID in Carson and walked into 1SG Cashman's office I found out that minute how important it was. I reported to be his Mortar Section Leader and my very young "Tabbed" Sgt squad leader was accompanying me. I reported, 1SG Cashman looked me up and down and said, "are you missing something? I think it goes above your unit patch...." Yep, I sure was, fuck.   

2) What should Faith’s priority be now?

It's time for the young LT to put his failure to the side, read and understand the Commander's Intent and strive to do all he can to make that unit the best he can. Leadership has nothing to do with what you can accomplish and everything to do with what you can help your men, platoon, company or battalion accomplish. Once the BC or fellow officers understand that your mission is the unit, he'll get his chance at Ranger School again.

3) What kinds of things should Faith focus on in his upcoming discussion with the Battalion Commander?

The LT needs to take advantage of the moment; he's not going to get a whole lot of one-on-one time like this with his Commander. With the knowledge gained from speaking with the S1, if he gets the opportunity to ask questions, he needs to ask what he can do to better the unit. Then when he's assigned his staff position, he needs to remember that he's still a leader. Just because he didn't pass Ranger School doesn't mean he can't use what he learned there.

Side note, when I first got to 2-3 IN (3th SBCT) all new enlisted soldiers met with CSM Bjerke. When I reported to him, I was scared to death. He spoke to me about where I was from and what my goals were, then asked if I had any questions. Reluctantly, I ask him about how I could start using the Thrift Savings Plan. He gave me very puzzled look and said, ''you're staying here and you're working for me." I was assigned to our BC as his RTO; it was one of the best experiences of my military career. I use this story to highlight the importance of the LT to make a good first impression. Use the information you've already gathered from the S1 to your advantage.

4) How have you dealt with your own failures, either in the military or in life in general?

Looking back on my short military career I approached it like failure wasn't an option, which is a good and bad thing. I was so afraid to fail I didn't go to Ranger School or SFAS. Even though I knew the cadre would have had to drag me out before I quit, I was still scared to fail. I've learned that failure is experience that isn't celebrated. Succeeding is easy, failure is hard, embrace it. Don't be scared to fail, you don't learn shit from succeeding.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 29, 2018)

Good job.  Very thoughtful answers.

It also reminds me that I actually need to wrap this one up.


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## BloodStripe (Jan 30, 2018)

256 said:


> 4) How have you dealt with your own failures, either in the military or in life in general?
> 
> Looking back on my short military career I approached it like failure wasn't an option, which is a good and bad thing. I was so afraid to fail I didn't go to Ranger School or SFAS. Even though I knew the cadre would have had to drag me out before I quit, I was still scared to fail. I've learned that failure is experience that isn't celebrated. Succeeding is easy, failure is hard, embrace it. Don't be scared to fail, you don't learn shit from succeeding.



With regards to your fourth point, I think we spend too much time developing our weaknesses and not enough time focusing on our strengths. I think we all should look back more on our successes and see what we can take from that to apply elsewhere in our lives.


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## 256 (Jan 30, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> With regards to your fourth point, I think we spend too much time developing our weaknesses and not enough time focusing on our strengths. I think we all should look back more on our successes and see what we can take from that to apply elsewhere in our lives.



I can get on board with that as well. Just seems you can replicate successes easier than failures. You haven’t achieved your failures yet. But then again planes land on air craft carriers all the time successfully, but that skill should still always be honed. I get your point.


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## Andoni (Jan 30, 2018)

256 said:


> Just seems you can replicate successes easier than failures. You haven’t achieved your failures yet.



No disrespect, but I don't understand these two statements. Could you elaborate? I'm confused because....I don't know why. I just don't don't get it.


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## Gunz (Jan 30, 2018)

256 said:


> ...Just seems you can replicate successes easier than failures. You haven’t achieved your failures yet...



I'm a little fuzzy on this one, too. Failure, in my view, isn't something to be achieved. It's only a learning curve if you've exhausted every effort to succeed and then failed. Success is a relative thing, relative to the level of difficulty one has to overcome to achieve it.


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## 256 (Jan 30, 2018)

Sure, for example a helicopter pilot can take off and land a hundred times. That to me is replicated success. If you’ve tried to pass a certain college class (any objective really) but haven’t I would say that’s a failure, and you haven’t succeeded. In today’s world you succeed more than you fail. 



Andoni said:


> No disrespect, but I don't understand these two statements. Could you elaborate? I'm confused because....I don't know why. I just don't don't get it.


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## 256 (Jan 30, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> With regards to your fourth point, I think we spend too much time developing our weaknesses and not enough time focusing on our strengths. I think we all should look back more on our successes and see what we can take from that to apply elsewhere in our lives.




All I meant was I can see continuing to “take off and land the helicopter” and celebrating that success and learning from it. I think not developing our weaknesses would put us in a continual state of failure. If I can’t land the helicopter, we might want to work on that. That’s all.


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## 256 (Feb 12, 2018)

I know I am way behind the curve here but I enjoy these. 


Discussion Questions:
1) What should LT Faith do? Potential courses of action include taking one of the two options offered, suggesting a third course of action, or asking for more time to make a decision. There is a mortar platoon in the battalion, and Faith is a graduate of the Mortar Platoon Leader’s course. Maybe that would be a better fit for him?

Damn it; I was just going to write the "ask to be the Mortar Platoon PL" position before I got to the questions! I'm going to continue with that. Being the HQ Mortar PL will be handy for the young Officer as he moves through his Army career. He's been through Ranger School, even if he didn't pass it, LT Faith should have a good base of understanding of a line Platoon's battle drills. There isn't a whole bunch of Officers that have had mortar experience, which comes in handy in the battlespace. Not only that, he would be seen (in my eyes) as a well rounded Officer.   


2) What are some of the positive and negative implications of the course of action you’ve suggested?

I'm not sure suggesting an option to the BC is a great idea, at least for the ones I've worked under or for. Speaking from my experience (as a 11C3O), just because he takes the weapons or mortar platoon doesn't mean he'll never get a "line platoon." One negative and positive I will say about taking the Mortar platoon; mortarmen, for whatever reason, are different soldiers. I've had PSGs that were the most squared away dudes in the Army and some total slackers. I've never experienced the "total slacker" 11B PSG. It's easier to be a slacker because no one understands what the chucks are doing. I'm not saying that to make it look cool; I'm saying it because some Soldiers can hide behind that mystery. If LT Faith went to a Mortar Leaders course, he could turn a lazy platoon into a great one. He can use his gained knowledge from IMLC to call out nonsense his platoon is doing. One example I will use to back this. During platoon live fires, a mortar section leader I knew would BS the company commander giving him some excuse why they couldn't do the movement with each platoon. There's an argument about limiting it to a few platoons, so you're dudes aren't burnt out (I get it). Instead, he chose to setup up his 60s and just sit on them as the platoons did their movements. That type of leadership kills basic level mortar training skills and decays unit readiness. But, LT Faith better be ready to catch some shit from his line Platoon peers, especially without the Tab.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 15, 2018)

last paragraph from the previous installment:

At last, the group made the final turn back to the company area. Ahead, Faith could see the other ability groups had already returned and were doing cool-down stretches. “Everyone on line!” Sergeant David called. Still running, the group lined up abreast so that everyone was even. Then Sergeant David called out, “Finish is the corner of the Delta Company headquarters building. And… go!” At his command, everyone took off running. Faith ran as hard as he could, determined to be the first to reach the finish line. He wasn’t. He finished third out of about nine people, a close finish to be sure but third nonetheless. As he crossed the line, he could feel what was coming next. He blew past the finish line corner and turned it, hoping he could conceal the fact that he was about to throw up.

(end)

Faith blew past the finish line corner and turned it, hoping he could conceal the fact that he was about to throw up. He didn’t make it. As soon as he stopped running, his vomiting started. Mercifully, it was over after a couple of heaves and Faith immediately felt better. Well, physically he felt better; he was pretty embarrassed by not finishing first in the sprint and then throwing up after. But frankly, it had been a while since he was challenged this hard in a group run. Those guys could move. If this was going to be PT every day, Faith thought, he was going to have to up his game.

“You all right there, sir?” asked one of the men who finished before Faith. He was teasing, but his voice and expression betrayed no malice. Faith smiled and waved him off, worried that responding would cause more vomiting. Faith straightened up and saw Sergeant Ellery, recently returned from his own ability group run, looking in his direction.

The platoon began to reform for final cool-down stretches, and Faith resumed his position at the back of the platoon. He reminded himself not to get too comfortable in that position, since he had no idea where the company commander was going to slot him. It wasn’t outside the realm of possibility that they could park him in the XO slot until he got through Ranger School. He would just have to wait and see.

When the final stretches were complete, Sergeant Ellery called the platoon back to attention.

“Sir, do you have anything?”

Surprised that he was being acknowledged, much less invited to speak, Faith quickly replied “No thank you, Sergeant Ellery. Good job this morning, men.”

“Squad leaders, take charge of your units,” Sergeant Ellery directed, and with that, Second Lieutenant Scott Faith’s first experience with “real PT” came to an end.

After the formation broke up, Faith thanked Ellery for inviting him to do PT with the platoon and asked where the rest of the company was training.

“The company commander gave everyone the morning off since we got back from the field so late,” Ellery explained. “But we have a PT test coming up in two weeks and we all wanted to make sure we’re ready.”

Faith was incredulous. “So your platoon did PT today and the rest of the company had the morning off?” he asked.

“That’s right, sir,” Ellery answered. “Fifth Platoon and a couple of guys from the other platoons who either really really like PT, or really really need it.” Faith didn’t really know how to respond. None of the Soldiers seemed particularly surly or upset about having to be out doing pretty tough PT when their buddies in the other platoons got to sleep in.

“I called the CO on Friday night and told him you’d be at PT this morning and that you’d be standing by outside his office at 0900 today to meet him,” Ellery told Faith. “He says he looks forward to talking to you and to getting you integrated into the company.”

Faith nodded. “Thank you. Any indication where I might go?”

“Well, sir, we have three open platoons and the XO position is about to be empty, so there’s no telling,” Ellery responded. “Is there anywhere in particular you want to go?”

“Wherever the commander thinks I’ll do the most good,” he said.

“Good answer, sir.”

“Well, wherever I go, I know I need to go and do more PT. Sergeant David and his guys really smoked me this morning,” Faith joked.

“Sergeant David heads up the ability group that has all of the guys training for the brigade’s Army Ten Miler competition. You did OK today, sir,” Ellery said with a smile.

The two men said their goodbyes and went their separate ways. Faith returned to his room in the Bachelor Officer Quarters to take a shower and to polish his jump boots before his meeting with his new company commander. Maybe today would be the day he’d long waited for: the day he met his first platoon.

(END)

Discussion Questions:

-What kinds of things should Faith be thinking about in terms of his first meeting with his new platoon?

-What do you think about the platoon doing PT when the rest of the company has the morning off?

-Should Faith have said anything else when Ellery gave him the chance after the PT formation?


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## CDG (Feb 15, 2018)

We don't know this will be Faith's platoon, so I will withhold comment on the first question until we see where the CC puts him.

It's either a gung-ho platoon, or a problem platoon.  Based on the performance and lack of attitude, it sounds like a gung-ho platoon.  So good on them.  Nothing wrong with that.

Nope, he handled it perfectly.  Nobody wants to hear a drawn out, rambling, on the spot speech from a brand new LT.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 15, 2018)

CDG said:


> Nope, he handled it perfectly. Nobody wants to hear a drawn out, rambling, on the spot speech from a brand new LT.



This!


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## Marauder06 (Feb 16, 2018)

“Well, wherever I go, I know I need to go and do more PT.  Sergeant David and his guys really smoked me this morning,” Faith joked.

“Sergeant David heads up the ability group that has all of the guys training for the brigade’s Army Ten Miler competition.  You did OK today, sir,” Ellery said with a smile.

The two men said their goodbyes and went their separate ways.  Faith returned to his room in the Bachelor Officer Quarters to take a shower and to polish his jump boots before his meeting with his new company commander.  Maybe today would be the day he’d long waited for:  the day he met his first platoon.

As directed, Faith was outside his commander’s officer by 0900.  Actually, he was there at 0845, but the commander’s door was shut and the light was off.  A few Soldiers and NCOs came and went, but none of them had much to say to Faith as he waited.  A little after 0910, a short, harried-looking, balding man dressed in sweaty PT clothes walked into the area.  When the Soldier on orderly duty say him, he snapped to attention and shouted “Company!  Attent….tion!”  

Faint snapped to a rigid position of attention.  “At ease,” the man commanded and he hurried towards his office.  “You the new PL?” he asked Faith as the man unlocked his office door.  

“Yes sir,” Faith responded, guessing (correctly, as it turned out) that this was his new company commander.

“Captain Jenkins,” the man said by way of introduction.  “Good to have you on board.  Have a seat while we figure out where you’re going,” he directed, indicating a folding metal chair in the hallway immediately outside of his office.  Faith did as instructed. 

A few minutes later, a group of noncommissioned officers gathered in the hallway, apparently waiting for a meeting with Captain Jenkins.  Other than Sergeant Ellery, Faith recognized none of them.  And other than Sergeant Ellery, none of them seemed the slightest bit interested in Faith.  There were no other officers present.

“Come on in,” Captain Jenkins shouted to the gathered NCOs.  “Let’s figure out who we’re giving waivers to this month, and where we’re going to put this new lieutenant.”  Led by the first sergeant, the NCOs filed into the commander’s office, with Sergeant Ellery bringing up the rear.  As he entered he began to close the door, but looked at Faith for a moment and then left the door slightly ajar.  This way, although they made him wait in the hallway, Faith could hear most of what transpired.  It was… educational.

Before the meeting actually started, there was a lot of good-natured banter and cajoling between the NCOs and Captain Jenkins.  Topics ranged from sports teams, to whose Soldiers got in trouble over the weekend, to performance at PT.  At exactly 0900, the meeting began.  

The first order of business was handling promotion wavers.  There are time in grade and time in service requirements for promotion to certain pay grades in the Army.  Commanders are occasionally allowed discretion to promote high performing Soldiers early, but there is a finite number of waivers available in any given month, and usually far more deserving Soldiers than waivers.

As Faith would learn later that day, there were five platoons in Delta Company.  Only two of them had platoon leaders, but all of them had platoon sergeants.  And all of the platoon sergeants wanted the same thing:  for their platoons to be the best.

The best platoon would naturally have the best Soldiers (and of course, the best platoon sergeant) and one measure of who had the best Soldiers was who got the monthly waivers to private first class, specialist, and sergeant.

“Sergeant waivers.  This month I have one,” Captain Jenkins began.  “Who gets it?”

“You should give Specialist Wilson the waiver, sir,” Sergeant Ellery stated matter-of-factly, before anyone else could chime in.  This resulted in a chorus of good-humored groans.

“Your platoon got the last three waivers,” complained a voice that Faith would later learn belong to 2nd Platoon’s platoon sergeant, Sergeant First Class Manners.

“We’re going to get this one too, Sergeant Manners,” Ellery said confidently, as he stood up and confidently dropped a counseling packet onto the company commander’s desk.  “Sir, these are 12 months of counseling files, showing a clear progression in SPC Wilson’s personal development and leadership potential.  He won Soldier of the Month, completed Air Assault School, and is Master Gunner qualified on both the TOW and the Mark-19.  He’s enrolled in BASE.  The only thing holding him back is time in service.  You waive that, you’ve got another great junior NCO in the company.”

“Any other nominations?” Jenkins asked.

“Corporal Spinner has been working his ass off for the last three months.  He did almost everything that Wilson did, plus he scored ten points higher on the APFT.  He’s a solid troop and we should give the waiver to him,” insisted Sergeant Manners.

“I’ve got Specialist Watts and Specialist Beers in First Platoon,” said another platoon sergeant.  “They’re both good to go.”

“Anyone from 3rd or 4th Platoon?” Captain Jenkins inquired.

“No sir,” two other men in the room responded, near-simultaneously.

“OK, Sergeant Manners, Sergeant Bronze, let me see the counseling packets for your guys.  I’ll go over all of them with the First Sergeant and we’ll let you know who gets the waiver.

The request was met by an uncomfortable silence.

“No packets?” Jenkins asked, sighing.

“Listen, I’m not unsympathetic,” Jenkins continued.  “But you’ve got to give me something to work with here.  You know my policy:  good or bad, as far as I’m concerned, if it’s not written down it never happened.  If you want to take care of your good troops, or get rid of your bad troops, you need to start putting things in writing.”  He paused, and Faith her the sound of papers rustling.  “Looking at this packet, and in the absence of any others, SPC Wilson is getting the waiver to E5.”

“OK then, next order of business,” he continued, “You may have noticed that there’s a new LT in the company and we have to figure out where he’s going.  There are five platoons and two platoon leaders.  We have three open platoons and we need a new company XO too.  So… who wants this guy?”

Discussion questions:

1)  “You know my policy:  good or bad, as far as I’m concerned, if it’s not written down it never happened.”  Is that a good policy for a commander to have?

2)  What kinds of things do platoon sergeants look for in their new platoon leaders?


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## SaintKP (Feb 16, 2018)

I'll only answer the first question since it can somewhat be applied to the civilian world.

I think its perfectly fine, as bosses, managers, leaders we need to demonstrate a clear and consistent basis on how we deal with things whether it be training, new system implementation, or promotions. When you start to base your practice on what is essentially hearsay it opens up the potential for a ton of problems. Keep everything documented that way you have verifiable  background to look back at whether it be for commendation or disciplinary actions.

I do have one issue when it comes his statement, it can be loosely interpreted that he is ok with certain things not being documented because as he said if its not written down it never happened. I may be reading too much into it but that's a slight impression I got from reading through it again.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 16, 2018)

1)  That is a damned good policy.  SFC Ellery obviously takes care of his troops.  And when you go to the promotion board you need a legit counseling packet.  I remember talking about my gunner with my Platoon Sergeant one time and then looking at his counseling packet after my Section Sergeant went insane.  It was missing three months worth of shit.  And then I spent the next few days looking at packets and some of them were complete garbage.  We replaced a TC because of that. 



SaintKP said:


> I'll only answer the first question since it can somewhat be applied to the civilian world.
> 
> I think its perfectly fine, as bosses, managers, leaders we need to demonstrate a clear and consistent basis on how we deal with things whether it be training, new system implementation, or promotions. When you start to base your practice on what is essentially hearsay it opens up the potential for a ton of problems. Keep everything documented that way you have verifiable  background to look back at whether it be for commendation or disciplinary actions.
> 
> I do have one issue when it comes his statement, it can be loosely interpreted that he is ok with certain things not being documented because as he said if its not written down it never happened. I may be reading too much into it but that's a slight impression I got from reading through it again.



So you could take this a few ways (document all fo the good stuff an none of the bad), or just matter of fact.  Because when you're trying to chapter Soldiers out for patterns of behavior, or being fat, whatever it is.  If the paperwork isn't straight from the beginning Legal will laugh at you.

2) So SFC Ellery fucked around with the guy who may be his new PL by putting him in a group of some of the fastest dudes in the Battalion on day 1 when the whole company did not PT.  He as testing him.  Not sure if he passed, but he did well.  He also didn't have diarrhea of the mouth when Ellery asked him if he had anything to say after PT.  On day 1 it's always better to say too little than to say too much.  So, does SFC Ellery now advocate to have him?


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## CDG (Feb 16, 2018)

That is a great policy for a CC to have.  Looks more and more like Ellery has the stud platoon.  Dudes want to put in extra effort for an NCO that takes care of them like that.  The other PSGs need to quit being so lazy and do their damn job.  I literally LOLd at the one PSG saying, "Yeah, my guy did all that too. And his APFT was higher".  Classic Army.

I can't speak to a PSG specifically, but I can say what we look for in a new ALO/13L.  We look for someone who is willing to learn from the true SMEs, those being the NCOs and sometimes even a SrA.  We look for a guy who understands what he doesn't know, and is willing to educate himself.  Someone who isn't afraid to come PT with the bros, or go on a ruck, or go out in the field.  And we look for someone who is going to do all the officer things that we need, like holding the NCOs accountable for promotion packets, EPRs, etc.  Someone who is going to go to bat for us with squadron leadership, or the Army.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2018)

“Listen, I’m not unsympathetic,” Jenkins continued.  “But you’ve got to give me something to work with here.  You know my policy:  good or bad, as far as I’m concerned, if it’s not written down it never happened.  If you want to take care of your good troops, or get rid of your bad troops, you need to start putting things in writing.”  He paused, and Faith her the sound of papers rustling.  “Looking at this packet, and in the absence of any others, SPC Wilson is getting the waiver to E5.”

“OK then, next order of business,” he continued, “You may have noticed that there’s a new LT in the company and we have to figure out where he’s going.  There are five platoons and two platoon leaders.  We have three open platoons and we need a new company XO too.  So… who wants this guy?”

Faith listened in breathless anticipation. 

…and he heard… nothing.

Faith would later learn that there were five platoons in Delta Company.  Each one had a sergeant first class—an “E7” in Army parlance—as its platoon sergeant, but they were desperately short of platoon leaders.  Most of the young officers were placed on “line platoons,” meaning lightly-equipped foot infantry.  Delta Company was more accurately described as “motorized infantry,” because their heavy weapons systems required vehicles for movement.  Delta Company was actually a “specialty platoon,” which was usually considered a reward for having been successful on the line.  In practice, it was a place where they parked the rare lieutenant who came to the battalion without a Ranger Tab until that young man could get back to Fort Benning and earn it.  While some platoon sergeants liked having a platoon leader around, some of them liked the autonomy of going it alone, without the hassle, as they saw it, of babysitting a new 2nd lieutenant.  The platoon sergeants in Delta Company were:

1st Platoon:  SFC Smith
2nd Platoon:  SFC Manners
3rd Platoon:  SFC Bronze
4th Platoon:  SFC Maldonado
5th Platoon:  SFC Ellery

“Come on who wants the new LT?” Captain Jenkins asked again.

“Not it,” said Sergeant Bronze.

“He’s literally fresh off the boat, sir,” said Sergeant Smith.  “I don’t think I can make a decision on him, sight unseen.”

“He doesn’t even have a Ranger tab,” added Sergeant Manners.  There it was.  Faith felt his heart sink. 

“Sergeant Maldonaldo,” Jenkins said, “You’re about due for a new platoon leader.  You want the new guy?”

“No sir,” Maldonaldo said flatly.

This was not going the way Faith expected.  They didn’t talk about “NCO rejection” at the Officer Basic Course.

“You’re about due for one,” Jenkins countered.

“5th Platoon hasn’t had a PL in over a year,” Sergeant Maldonaldo protested, “Make Sergeant Ellery take the FNG.”

“First Sergeant, a little help here?” Captain Jenkins sighed in mock exasperation.

(end)

 1)  Why would an infantry NCO not want a platoon leader in general, and a platoon leader without a Ranger Tab specifically?
2)  How is Faith going to handle being in a company with a platoon sergeant that doesn’t want him, and soldiers who already dislike him?


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## Gunz (Feb 26, 2018)

_1) Why would an infantry NCO not want a platoon leader in general, and a platoon leader without a Ranger Tab specifically?_

I'll take a guess at this one--with your leave--because in the USMC there's no tab or badge to distinguish one new infantry officer from another. In general, it could be anything: smack talk from his soldiers, the FNG's appearance, rumors, anything. Specifically, is it because having the Tab implies leadership abilities, maturity...and subconsciously manhood? While not having the tab perhaps implies less of a man, less of a soldier?


_2) How is Faith going to handle being in a company with a platoon sergeant that doesn’t want him, and soldiers who already dislike him?_

He'll have to man up and deal with it by _earning _their respect. It's possible to be respected and not necessarily "liked." But in order to earn respect he'll have to prove to them that he puts their welfare above his, that he can and will do anything they can do, and lead by example. It's as simple as that...but it'll take time.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 26, 2018)

1) I understand the Cavalry is a different place.  And so is Mech Infantry.  Things that matter are gunnery and maneuver.  Now, why wouldn't a PSG want a PL.  I don't know, it's a bad attitude to have because it gives you a ton of extra shit you have to do. When I showed up to my Mechanized Reconnaissance Platoon I had loads of work to do immediately.  So I think that's a piss poor attitude.  But I've seen that attitude around.  But here's the thing even with that.  The Army sends you PLs, they don't all pass Ranger School.  It's not designed that way. 

2) Being liked is cool I suppose, but that's a slippery slope because when you're liked you're not always respected.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2018)

Good answers.  This part of the story was for dramatic effect.  I haven't met any platoon sergeants who wouldn't take a platoon leader when offered, as long as the PL was at least marginally competent.  I'm sure they're out there, but I never met any.  All of the NCOs in the units I commanded seemed quite happy to have an officer there to help share the load.


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## digrar (Feb 27, 2018)

Share the load, or take the fall...


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## x SF med (Feb 27, 2018)

1.  Laziness, and disrespect...  an NCO's job is to train and mentor his people, even a brand new 2LT without a Ranger Tab.  many in the Infantry see the Ranger Tab as a sign of competence in basic patrolling and leadership, an ability to handle the Infantry suck, and a measure of dick size...  I've know a bunch of Officers, Infantry or not, without the Ranger Tab who were true leaders and outstanding officers, and an equal number with the black and gold shoulder bling who should have been punched in the face every time they opened their pie hole.

2. Learn from the PSG, whether it's what's right or what's wrong with the way the NCO runs things, and at the same time, use what little he knows to make the PLT a better place for the soldiers and NCOs, better board packages, more school slots, more promotions, etc.  The soldiers who don't like him will learn to respect him, and value his position if he does as outlined, some may even begin to like him.  He needs to drive on and lead, but not make glaring immediate changes that alienate he PSG, men or command.  Changes come in small doses at opportune moments, for the betterment of the PLT, not just to change, but to change for the best.


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## Topkick (Apr 5, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> 1) I understand the Cavalry is a different place.  And so is Mech Infantry.  Things that matter are gunnery and maneuver.  Now, why wouldn't a PSG want a PL.  I don't know, it's a bad attitude to have because it gives you a ton of extra shit you have to do. When I showed up to my Mechanized Reconnaissance Platoon I had loads of work to do immediately.  So I think that's a piss poor attitude.  But I've seen that attitude around.  But here's the thing even with that.  The Army sends you PLs, they don't all pass Ranger School.  It's not designed that way.
> 
> 2)Being liked is cool I suppose, but that's a slippery slope because when you're liked you're not always respected.



I'll tell you why this PSG wouldn't want a PL. Because some lieutenants come in with a superiority complex and think they are going to fix things that are not broken. A commission provides authority, but respect is earned. A good Platoon Sergeant takes great pride in his platoon and its accomplishments and usually doesn't want change, but does welcome new ways to improve. As @Marauder06 states, a competent PL is a welcome sight and if a Platoon Leader embraces his PSG, his PSG will usually reciprocate. But, that relationship takes time. In my 5 years as a platoon Sergeant, I only butted heads with one the four LTs I worked with. He was not incompetent, he was just arrogant with no experience to back it up.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 14, 2020)

This banter went back and forth for some time.  Sitting outside his commander’s office and hearing his fate being decided, Faith felt the lowest he felt since joining the Army.  Even failing out of Ranger School didn’t feel like this.  It was as if his career was over before it even got started.  And they were all laughing at him.

Well, not all…

“I want the new lieutenant,” Faith heard Sergeant Ellery say.  He wasn’t sure if he heard correctly or if it was just wishful thinking on his part.

“I want the new LT, sir,” Ellery said more emphatically. All other conversation stopped.

“You’ve gone almost a year and a half without a lieutenant,” Captain Jenkins responded, his voice carrying a surprised inflection.

“Yes sir,” said Ellery, “That’s one of the reasons I want this one.”

“He’s not even Ranger qualified,” Brooks suggested, “what are you going to do with an infantry lieutenant who can’t even get his tab?”

“We can work on that,” Ellery countered.  “I prefer to work with people who have traits that can’t be trained.”

“I thought you preferred going it alone,” Maldanado responded.

“Not if there’s a better option,” Ellery explained.

“OK fine,” Captain Jenkins interrupted. “No one else wants LT Faith, so he’s all yours, Sergeant Ellery. Now, about these blotter reports…”

The meeting went on for another half hour, but Faith wasn’t paying attention.  He was emotionally awash with a flood of both gratitude and admiration.  He wasn’t sure what he did to earn Sergeant Ellery’s respect, but he vowed to not make him regret it.

/////

Discussion Questions:
1) why would a high-performing infantry platoon sergeant volunteer to take on an untried (and more importantly untabbed) second lieutenant? Why wouldn’t he just keep running the platoon on his own?

2)  what do you make about Ellery’s comment about “traits that can’t be trained?”


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## Ranger Psych (Mar 14, 2020)

So I guess work happens if leave's cancelled... lol


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## digrar (Mar 14, 2020)

All it took was a global pandemic. If only we had of know that 2 years ago.


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## medicchick (Mar 14, 2020)

digrar said:


> All it took was a global pandemic. If only we had of know that 2 years ago.


Still not a record. I took an at least 5 year break and came back to the same one...


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## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 14, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Scotty needs to drink alot, work out hard, take care of his men and listen to his NCO's.  Why is this a case study!?!??!



I solved this riddle years ago.

New case study idea:  LTC Scotty is the senior ranking officer left alive on earth.  Hear me out, his team consists of a crusty E9 Recon Marine that's an "outside the box" thinker, a drop dead gorgeous E7 INTEL female with durty blonde hair and a mouth like a sailor, an E6 RANGER  communicator that's a Macgyver of all things 1s and 0s, an E5 PJ with hair worthy of a Paul Mitchell commercial, an E4 Promotable TACP fresh off a 12 month deployment crushing ISIS and Cav Lt who needs constant mentorship.

Their journey finds them hunting town to town digging threw piles of bodies in search for others still alive.  It's a tale of inter service bonding, Officer Professional development and struggles told from the everyone's perspective.  Can Faith keep his team together under these harsh conditions .....


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## DasBoot (Mar 14, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> I solved this riddle years ago.
> 
> New case study idea:  LTC Scotty is the senior ranking officer left alive on earth.  Hear me out, his team consists of a crusty E9 Recon Marine that's an "outside the box" thinker, a drop dead gorgeous E7 INTEL female with durty blonde hair and a mouth like a sailor, an E6 RANGER  communicator that's a Macgyver of all things 1s and 0s, an E5 PJ with hair worthy of a Paul Mitchell commercial, an E4 Promotable TACP fresh off a 12 month deployment crushing ISIS and Cav Lt who needs constant mentorship.
> 
> Their journey finds them hunting town to town digging threw piles of bodies in search for others still alive.  It's a tale of inter service bonding, Officer Professional development and struggles told from the everyone's perspective.  Can Faith keep his team together under these harsh conditions .....


The Commo Batt boy and the TACP would bond over shared experience and an unhealthy borderline sexual love for radios, team up and kill the E9 and PJ and spend the rest of the Armageddon Eiffel Towering the hot Intel chick. Not saying it’s the right option but I know my peers...


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## Viper1 (Mar 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This banter went back and forth for some time.  Sitting outside his commander’s office and hearing his fate being decided, Faith felt the lowest he felt since joining the Army.  Even failing out of Ranger School didn’t feel like this.  It was as if his career was over before it even got started.  And they were all laughing at him.
> 
> Well, not all…
> 
> ...


1) Running a platoon without help is exhausting. Yes, everything is “leader business” but doing two levels of work for an extended period of difficult. Furthermore, platoon leadership is the first step to prepare officers for the burden and responsibility of command.
2) Some traits, like the Army values, can’t be trained. Good people deserve to be with good people.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 15, 2020)

Eventually, the door to the commander’s office opened and the platoon sergeants came spilling out.  None of them seemed the slightest bit concerned that Faith had probably overheard their entire conversation.  The only person that even acknowledged his presence was Sergeant Ellery, who gave him a wink as he passed.

“Get in here, lieutenant,” Faith heard Captain Jenkins bellow.

Their ensuing conversation went better than Faith anticipated.  For one thing, the sat on comfortable chairs positioned around the long briefing table in Jenkins’ office, instead of Faith standing at rigid attention in front of Jenkins’ desk, which is what Faith expected.  For another thing, CPT Jenkins treated him like a professional.  Now that he thought about it, this was the first time someone treated him like a professional officer since he got commissioned.

“Yes sir, I think I’m going to fit in here just fine,” Faith responded when Jenkins asked him if Faith thought he would be a good fit for the company.

“That’s good.  That’s really good.  Sergeant Ellery is one of the best NCOs in the entire battalion.  Maybe in the entire brigade,” he began. “But let me explain something to you, lieutenant.  “A Ranger Tab doesn’t indicate that someone *is* the best,” he explained, “It simply means that he is motivated to be the best.  In our business, a Ranger Tab is the “union card” that marks you as a full-fledged member of our profession.  Without it, life is going to be very, very hard for you as an Infantry officer.  That’s all I want to say on this topic.  You have a mission to perform and a job to do, but every waking moment outside of that should be dedicated to returning to Ranger School and earning your Tab.  Dismissed.”

1)  Why is a Ranger Tab so important in the Infantry?  Do you think officers can be successful without one?

2)  What should Faith do to prepare for being the leader in Sergeant Ellery’s platoon?


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## BloodStripe (Mar 15, 2020)

1. This is where the Marine Corps Infantry and Army Infantry differ. I don't view the Ranger tab as something that is important to the Infantry. I mean no disrespect to that and a lot of men and women have done very stupid things to earn it, but I'd rather serve under someone with combat experience than school experience. I have had the pleasure of serving with a lot of excellent Infantry officers that do not have a Ranger Tab and I do not think any lesser of them for not having it.

2. I feel this has been answered multiple times already. Good leaders know when to listen, and by having one if the best PSG's, it should allow Faith some time to get a feel of the organizational culture and what the strengths and weaknesses are. Often times if you come out of the gates swinging at everything, you start swinging at pitches that everyone already knows will be balls because they have already seen and experienced them.


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## DasBoot (Mar 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Eventually, the door to the commander’s office opened and the platoon sergeants came spilling out.  None of them seemed the slightest bit concerned that Faith had probably overheard their entire conversation.  The only person that even acknowledged his presence was Sergeant Ellery, who gave him a wink as he passed.
> 
> “Get in here, lieutenant,” Faith heard Captain Jenkins bellow.
> 
> ...


 1) it’s relevance to the infantry is dated and over hyped. It does not teach you sound, modern tactics. It does not indicate you are a stellar solider, leader or tactician.

It is relevant to all combat arms jobs. It should be important for all leaders, across the DOD, to experience the level of misery, hopelessness and deprivation that Ranger school provides you. It allows leaders to prove they can “suck” for an indefinite amount of time, and (at least in my case) shows you how hard it is to deal with people when they are at their worst.
That is the relevance of the Ranger tab. It shouldn’t have a magical place in the infantry world. It should be viewed not as a tactics or leadership school, but a right of passage, for anyone in any combat unit or career field across the DOD. It’s a gut check and a badge of honor, but it shouldn’t be viewed as an actual qualification to be a leader.

2) he should find out what beer his new PSG drinks, buy a 24 rack of it, send his boys home at lunch, and lock himself in the PLTCP with his PSG and drink that case while shooting the shit, getting to know each other, and generally figuring out what kind of platoon they want to run. If the PSG has his tab the PL should be hashing out a pre-School training plan to prepare himself to go back ASAP.


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## digrar (Mar 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> 1)  Why is a Ranger Tab so important in the Infantry?  Do you think officers can be successful without one?



Going off the above DasBoot post, is it? Or is that Ranger Regt bias? Out in the 82nd, 10th Mountain, 25th etc is it still the gold standard, or does 2 or 3 deployments 5+ years ago when things were still cracking on count for more?


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## Kaldak (Mar 15, 2020)

Focus the conversation on a conventional unit as @Marauder06 has presented it.


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## DasBoot (Mar 15, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Focus the conversation on a conventional unit as @Marauder06 has presented it.





> the 82nd, 10th Mountain, 25th


He... is? Those are all conventional units...


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## Marauder06 (Mar 15, 2020)

If Sergeant Ellery held any misgivings about having a non-tabbed platoon leader, he never mentioned it.  He seemed genuinely happy to have a lieutenant, and loaded Faith up with “officer work” on a daily basis.  “Individual and crew-level collective training is an NCO responsibility,” he told Faith, “Collective training at the squad and platoon level is your responsibility, Lieutenant.”  Faith noticed that Sergeant Ellery always referred to him as “sir” or “Lieutenant,” never as the affectionate short-title of “LT.”  Nor did Ellery allow the Soldiers and NCOs to call him that, or to call each other by their first names.  “Unprofessional,” Ellery said by way of explanation.

For his part, Faith flung himself into learning his new job. He pored over field manuals and technical documents. He immersed himself in the company SOP. And he worked out harder than he ever did before in his life. Faith was in decent shape before, but he was now operating on an entirely new level. He felt stronger, faster, and leaner than he ever had before.

At a company training meeting about two weeks into the job, Faith and Ellery were informed that SPC Wilson’s promotion waiver was approved. Faith was thrilled. Faith was already impressed by Wilson’s work ethic and leadership potential, and with the inherent personnel shortages in the unit, the platoon could really use another NCO around.

“It will be great to have Special Wilson move up and take one of our team leader positions,” Faith exclaimed once he and Ellery were alone.

“Oh, he’s not staying with us, sir,” Sergeant Ellery explained.  “You can’t have a guy go from being Joe to being in charge of Joe.  It’s too hard on him, and on them.

Faith was shocked. “But we’re so short on NCOs, and Soldiers,” he countered. “We’re just going to give him up?”

“Yes sir,” Ellery said, “Unless you want me to ask the CO to give the waiver someone one else. I’ll do that if you want.”

Of course Faith didn’t want that at all.

“So where are you going to send him?” Faith inquired.

“Well sir, 2nd Platoon needs the most help, so I thought we’d send him there.”

Faith thought about that for a moment. 2nd Platoon had a reputation for being troublemakers, and for playing fast and loose with the rules. They were the individuals who Faith had a run-in with on literally his first day in the company. They frequently harassed and bullied Private Pigpen (his real name was “Thigpen,” but everyone called him Pigpen, and it fit). Sergeant First Class Manners ran 2nd Platoon. He was loud, obnoxious, petty, a bit of a complainer, and a habitual chain smoker. Faith disliked him for all of those reasons.

“Let’s ask Wilson about it,” Faith said.

“Good idea, sir,” Ellery replied.

(end)

Discussion Questions:

1) Why should you consider moving people to another unit when they’re promoted or change jobs?
2)  Is 2nd Platoon the best place for new-Sergeant Wilson?  I mean, there are three other platoons he could go to…


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## SpitfireV (Mar 15, 2020)

Part of leadership is playing fair with how people are treated. We're all human and we don't love or hate everyone so those biases could come into play when people are promoted within. I've seen it happen in my job and it's an ugly thing when it goes wrong. By moving him it means that there is less likelihood of his playing favourites (or the opposite) and it also means that he goes somewhere where he doesn't have that overly familiar links to have to deal with when he needs to sort out a problem. His reputation will also be built on what he does there in this new role and not coloured by anything he has done in the current (in theory, ignoring talk between units).

That could be more nuanced but I think the point is put across.


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 16, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> 1) Why should you consider moving people to another unit when they’re promoted or change jobs?
> 2)  Is 2nd Platoon the best place for new-Sergeant Wilson?  I mean, there are three other platoons he could go to…



1) The idea of moving Soldiers around as they gain rank is to maintain professionalism among the ranks.  When we promoted Soldiers I always had every intention of moving them to the other platoon and we'd get a swap.  Or, if it could be worked out the Soldier would change Troops entirely.  Give the new NCO a platform to succeed.  However, we were so under-strength in our battalion that never happened.

2) Second platoon is likely not the best place for Sergeant Wilson.  Promote him and put him in an environment where he can succeed.  Also try to get a good Soldier back as a replacement.


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## Ball N' Chain (Mar 16, 2020)

1) Why should you consider moving people to another unit when they’re promoted or change jobs?

When Joe becomes the NCO, the other Joes might not see him as an NCO. They will "accidentally" not call him Sergeant, push boundaries as if he were still a SPC, and overall not see him as an authoritative figure because at one point he was an equal to them. Moving him gives him Soldiers who never knew him as a peer, only as an authoritative figure.

2) Is 2nd Platoon the best place for new-Sergeant Wilson? I mean, there are three other platoons he could go to…

Yes, there are three other platoons. But stacking one or two platoons with the best leaders and leaving another platoon with the shit bags is not an equal distribution of "firepower." Who knows, maybe SGT Wilson can be the spark that changes the culture of 2nd platoon for the better.


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## digrar (Mar 16, 2020)

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a bottom up cleansing, when there has been toxicity at the top.


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## BloodStripe (Mar 16, 2020)

1) When I was the new guy in my last AD platoon, I showed up a LCpl and was put in a TL billet. I had a little under 2 years in the Corps along with 1 deployment. 3 months later I was promoted to Corporal. At that same time, our brand new battalion who was already light on NCO's took nearly every SNCO and formed a BTT for a deployment to Iraq. That shift meant every Platoon Sergeant (PS) was now filled by a Sergeant and almost every Corporal was now a Squad Leader (SL). I believe in my company we had around 4 or 5 Sergeant's left as Squad Leaders, one of them mine. It became quickly apparent that he was not a good leader and so I went from TL to SL in the same squad. I had never had any issues with Marines questioning my rank or authority. It may have helped that the platoon was comprised of mostly boots (including most TL's), but it goes to show that good order and discipline can be retained after a promotion. To show that it wasnt an outlier, my best TL who I put in that role after I got promoted, took over the squad when I left. He would go on to be meritoriously promoted to the rank of Sergeant, and I have yet to hear of any issues outside of when he was a fresh non-rate TL and his team was testing his new authority (they all went to boot camp and SOI together, and it was mostly when he was tasked to get his team do police call or do some other working party, not in direct performance of grunt work).

2. Ball N Chain nailed it. Much like how the Corps stacks jobs for new officers, placing all the talent in one unit exposes weaknesses in other units. While challenging, it will be the best place for the commander to have the best fighting force. It the platoon is that fucked up, they should consider realigning more than just Wilson to 2nd.


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## Steve1839 (Mar 16, 2020)

1.  When a soldier is promoted from the enlisted ranks into the NCO corps, reassignment gives the new sergeant a chance to test his/her wings without the baggage of his /her previous station.  I'm not sure much is to be gained by reassignment in the same company...I would prefer to see the troop moved to another company or evenbetter, another battalion.
2.  As a platoon leader, company commander I never got involved in the reassignment of NCOs....i was asked my opinion, but as an officer who soldier was being reassigned, I never offered an opinion regarding where the troop might land.  I don't recall be g asked.   Office reassignments, yes.  N CO assignments, no.


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## DasBoot (Mar 16, 2020)

What kind of PSG doesn’t let his boys use first names? How is that unprofessional. That’s a sign of real camaraderie and closeness IMO. Ellery sounds like a fucking nerd. Sorry that stuck out.

1. getting a variety of experience is always good. Also PLTs tend to get along better when you know each other- having cross pollination with other companies, platoons and squads can help with that. That’s why you typically see people leave their companies they grew up in as they are promoted here. 
2. Sending a young buck to be a TL in a bad platoon is dumb. He is too new in the job to be set in his “good” ways and will conform to the shitbag PLT, versus raising them up. One TL actually has very little power and won’t be enough to fix his PLT. Also, if the joes can’t respect their former peer becoming their leader then they have some serious discipline issues.


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## AWP (Mar 17, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> a drop dead gorgeous E7 INTEL female with durty blonde hair and a mouth like a sailor,



1. Tell us more about this E-7
2. An unresolved Case Study? Whhhhaaaaatttttttt?


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## Cookie_ (Mar 17, 2020)

1. I've always liked the idea of giving fresh NCOs a new start away from the Joes they came up with, but that's just never been something feasible in my personal experience as a cook. Every 92G in the brigade(or two if it's a consolidated DFAC) works together; moving Battalions doesn't change much.
The only good thing about that is the junior NCOs who develop well in that environment are always assets to whatever organization they go to next.

2. As @DasBoot and @digrar have said, rot happens from the top down. I had a NCO like SFC Manners in Korea; I was able to change the structure, but that's only because we had no SSG, and I was the senior SGT 18 months from ETS who didn't give a damn about getting chewed out/written up for bucking his awful leadership. Not exactly something I think we'd want SPC Wilson to embrace, or really any other brand new NCO.

I'd be more likely to send him to one of the other PLTs to allow him to develop without learning some shitbag tactics. If we truly want to help 2nd PLT, maybe SFC Ellery should see about sending over an experienced SSG with the tact and backbone to help correct that ship.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 17, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> What kind of PSG doesn’t let his boys use first names? How is that unprofessional. That’s a sign of real camaraderie and closeness IMO. Ellery sounds like a fucking nerd. Sorry that stuck out.



This was literally every senior NCO I knew in the general purpose force way back when I was an infantry PL.  On duty, they even referred to each other as "Sergeant."  The officers called each other by first name if they were the same rank, or a senior officer speaking to a junior officer.  That was pretty consistent in my experience until I got into SOF.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 17, 2020)

AWP said:


> 1. Tell us more about this E-7
> *2. An unresolved Case Study? Whhhhaaaaatttttttt?*



A campaign promise is a campaign promise...


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## DasBoot (Mar 17, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> This was literally every senior NCO I knew in the general purpose force way back when I was an infantry PL.  On duty, they even referred to each other as "Sergeant."  The officers called each other by first name if they were the same rank, or a senior officer speaking to a junior officer.  That was pretty consistent in my experience until I got into SOF.


That’s gross... I know the big Army is generally first name adverse but I figured that was more a personal thing vs an institutional rule.

side note- I didn’t realize how much the regular army hated first names until Florida phase of Ranger school. During an AAR a couple of us (who had all been together for the entire of school in the same squad or platoon at that point) referred to each other using first names. The RI stopped me mid sentence and asked “Are you a fucking Green Beanie?” I replied “no sergeant I’m from 1/75.”

his response- “we aren’t in fucking group here using last fucking names. Of course1/75 is using first names...” and that was the 1214th time an RI made some snide “of course you’re from 1/75..” comment...


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## Ranger Psych (Mar 17, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> That’s gross... I know the big Army is generally first name adverse but I figured that was more a personal thing vs an institutional rule.
> 
> side note- I didn’t realize how much the regular army hated first names until Florida phase of Ranger school. During an AAR a couple of us (who had all been together for the entire of school in the same squad or platoon at that point) referred to each other using first names. The RI stopped me mid sentence and asked “Are you a fucking Green Beanie?” I replied “no sergeant I’m from 1/75.”
> 
> his response- “we aren’t in fucking group here using last fucking names. Of course1/75 is using first names...” and that was the 1214th time an RI made some snide “of course you’re from 1/75..” comment...




Never used first names unless off duty the whole time I was at Batt, but it's a new breed or something like that. lol


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## DasBoot (Mar 17, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Never used first names unless off duty the whole time I was at Batt, but it's a new breed or something like that. lol


A better breed.... 

ETA: it’s not across the board. But the guys I warrant as real friends who I have gone through a lot with, I use first names.


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## DZ (Mar 17, 2020)

I thought E9's were the only ones you referred to by their rank.. weird.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 18, 2020)

That evening after final formation, Sergeant Ellery had 5th Platoon stand fast.  “Specialist Wilson!  Front and center!”

“Moving, Sergeant!” said Wilson enthusiastically, taking one step backwards out of his squad line and then double timing to face Ellery.

“Parade, REST!” Ellery commanded as the rest of the company began to drift away for the evening.

“5th Platoon,” Ellery said loudly, “You are here after everyone else has gone home today because of Specialist Wilson.  You can blame him for what happens next.”  Wilson, and the rest of the platoon, looked at Ellery in confusion.  Wilson NEVER got in trouble.

“Specialist Wilson,” Ellery continued, “Is out of uniform. What are we going to do about that, sir?” he called back to Lieutenant Faith.

They had rehearsed this with the other NCOs prior to formation. Faith knew his lines: “Well we better get his entire chain of command up there to fix it, Sergeant!”

“Roger that, sir. Platoon—Atten…tion!” Ellery bellowed. When the still-confused platoon snapped to rigid attention, Ellery executed a crisp about-face. Faith marched around the left side of his platoon on a position in front of Ellery. Ellery saluted and Faith returned the salute. “NCOs, take your post!” Faith ordered. This was a non-standard drill and ceremony order, but because of the rehearsal the NCOs knew what to do. The lined up behind Wilson, who was facing Faith and had no idea what was happening behind him. “Specialist Wilson,” Faith called out, “About… FACE!” Wilson executed the ordered movement and found himself face to face with a line of three men: his team leader, his squad leader, and his platoon sergeant. A smile began to creep over his face as recognition of what was happening started to sink in.

“Attention to orders,” Faith intoned, “The Secretary of the Army has reposed special trust and confidence in the patriotism, valor, fidelity and professional excellence of the Specialist Jason A. Wilson. In view of these qualities and their demonstrated leadership potential and dedicated service to the United States Army, they are, therefore, promoted to the rank of sergeant, effective today.” He did it from memory, with no notes.

As Faith spoke, the NCOs in front of Wilson removed the new NCO’s specialist insignia and tossed it over their shoulders. It made a faint *ting!* noise when they struck the asphalt. Sergeant Ellery motioned for Faith to join the line, and Specialist Wilson’s platoon sergeant and new platoon leader pinned on his triple-chevron insignia of a buck sergeant. Faith went to put the metal backings on the sharp pins of the insignia, but Ellery waved him off. “Not yet, sir,” he whispered.

“5th Platoon,” Ellery stated, “Fall out and join me in congratulating the Army’s newest NCO, Sergeant Jason Wilson!” The platoon erupted in cheers. Wilson was a popular and well-liked junior leader within the platoon. A line formed to congratulate Wilson. Faith was first. He exchanged salutes with Wilson and shook his hand. “Congratulations, Sergeant,” he said.

Ellery followed Faith. Faith watched as Ellery squared up to Wilson. “Are you ready, Sergeant?” he asked.

“Roger, Sarn’t,” Wilson said, enthusiastically but with a little uncertainty. The rest of the platoon seemed to know what was about to happen, even if Faith did not.

“Oh damn, you’re going to get it now!”

“Get ‘im, Sergeant Ellery!”

“Time to bring the pain!”

Without further warning, Ellery brought down both hands in a thunderous thud onto Wilson’s collar, directly onto the pins which Faith knew due to the fact that they were still in his hand, did not have the metal backs over the sharp pins.

Having experienced “blood pinning” many times in college and in Army schools, Faith imagined he felt the pins going into Wilson’s skin when he heard the whump made by Ellery’s hands.  Wilson took a step back with one foot after the impact and looked a little surprised but otherwise seemed fine.  Ellery popped up the collar of Wilson’s uniform and motioned for Faith.  “Sir?” he asked.  Faith handed over the metal pin backs and put them on the pins.  He then smoothed out Wilson’s collar.  “OK,” he said, beckoning to the rest of the platoon.

Having seen the walloping that Wilson just received from Ellery, most of the rest of the platoon simply shook his hand. A few, however, clapped Wilson on the collar in the same manner that Sergeant Ellery did. But with the back on the pins, the blows were harmless. For his part, Staff Sergeant David, Wilson’s squad leader, patted him lightly on the collar. “Good job, Sergeant. I’m proud of you.”

The last group of soldiers waiting to congratulate the Army’s newest sergeant was a group of specialists, Wilson’s now-former running buddies within the platoon. They were clearly planning… something.

“You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain,” one of them joked. “You are hereby excommunicated from the Spec-4 Mafia!” exclaimed another. “You’re one of them now, sergeant,” said a third. While they all tried to carry a menacing tone, it was clear that they were happy that Wilson was getting promoted. One of them went up to Wilson and began removing the backings from his sergeant rank. They clearly wanted in on the blood pinning.

“If you take those backs off after Sergeant Ellery put them on, the next thing to come off is your head,” warned Corporal Laser. After considering it for a moment, the specialist decided that discretion was the better part of valor on this issue. “You’re lucky,” he said to Wilson with a wink. “OK everyone, let’s head to the all-ranks, drinks are on Sergeant Wilson!”

“Not so fast,” said Sergeant Ellery. “Fall back in.”

After the platoon was re-assembled, Sergeant Ellery addressed the troops. “Men, this is a great occasion. I’m proud to have Sergeant Wilson as a fellow NCO. The last event to take place during an NCO promotion is a recitation of the NCO Creed. I invite all NCOs to say it with me:



> “No one is more professional than I. I am a noncommissioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. As a noncommissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army." I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers, and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service, and my country; regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
> 
> Competence is my watch-word. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind – accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer, I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers, and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers, and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
> 
> Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my Soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, noncommissioned officers, leaders!”




“Sir, you have anything?” he asked of Faith.

“Negative, Sergeant,” Faith responded.

“Platoon… dis-missed! Make good decisions tonight.  Remember the rank that the Army gives on Thursday can be taken away on Friday.”

“Sergeant Ellery fucked you up, Wilson!” Faith heard one of the specialists say as they walked off towards the all-ranks club. “That’s SERGEANT Wilson to you!” another specialist jokingly corrected.

After the promotion, Faith and Ellery headed back to their shared office to finish up a few loose ends.  Faith was slightly troubled by the blood pinning.  Ellery seemed like such a by-the-book kind of NCO.  But blood pinning, while widespread and, honestly, even expected in the Infantry, was also specifically banned as hazing.  More out of curiosity than anything else, he decided to ask Ellery about it.

“So blood pinning is a thing here?” he asked.

“Not really, sir,” Ellery responded.

“Do you worry that you might set a bad example to the troops by blood pinning someone in front of the who platoon? Or that someone might dime you out to the sergeant major over it?”

“I’ve never ‘blood pinned’ anyone in my entire life,” he countered.

“I just saw you do it, Sergeant Ellery!”  Faith exclaimed.

“Did you, sir?” Ellery inquired. “If there’s nothing else, I think I’ll head home. It’s been a pretty long day. See you at PT tomorrow?”

Faith nodded.

“Never blood pinned anyone?? WTF was THAT supposed to mean?” Faith wondered as he went to the car and headed for the Officers’ Club and a much-needed beer.

-----
1) Blood pinning: have you done it? Have you had it done to you? Do you consider it hazing?

2) Faith clearly believes that this was hazing. What, if anything, should he do about it? Does this diminish the regard with which he formerly held Sergeant Ellery?

3) Memorizing things like promotion orders and the oath of enlistment… does it mean something to the troops or is it a waste of time?


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## racing_kitty (Mar 18, 2020)

Received once, never bestowed. By the letter of the law, yes it is hazing. However, if both parties are in agreement, and it doesn’t get out of hand or malicious, then let them follow an old tradition.

I’m not sure how Faith would bring it up, but I’d feel it out over some coffee in the PSG’s office one morning if I were him. After all, he didn’t let any of the other joes draw blood. Most people think of hazing as being exponentially more violent than one good lick from the platoon daddy, even though the rules explicitly state otherwise. I think it has diminished the regard Faith had for SFC Ellery, but it remains to be seen by how much.

As far as memorizing the orders and whatnot, yeah, that matters. Either they’re going to believe that the new LT actually gives a damn, he’s got a 90lb brain in that cranium, or all of the above. Hell, I’m impressed that he did it.


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## Kaldak (Mar 18, 2020)

Received for jump wings, never given it to anyone. I personally don't see it as hazing. I see it more as a rite of passage.

If the LT sees it as hazing, he should ban it from being done ever again. I feel it may have diminished his regard for his PSG, but I don't think by much.

It means a whole lot. I feel it is very important in terms of maintaining a professional Army, and it maintains tradition within the respective ranks.


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## BloodStripe (Mar 18, 2020)

I've been on both ends of earning a blood stripe. I don't think it should be mandatory, however with that being said, those who don't participate may be viewed as less than equal at first.  I have never seen lower ranks give blood wings to higher ranks and do not think that is appropriate and is counterintuitive to the point.

If the LT doesn't agree with it, it is well within his rights that such activities do not happen.


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## Kraut783 (Mar 18, 2020)

Received and given....depends on the unit and participates. Usually it becomes a problem when it is over-zealously done and someone is being a prick about it. Didn't see it done around 2008...a fading tradition.


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## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> -----
> 1) Blood pinning: have you done it? Have you had it done to you? Do you consider it hazing?
> 
> 2) Faith clearly believes that this was hazing. What, if anything, should he do about it? Does this diminish the regard with which he formerly held Sergeant Ellery?
> ...



1. Blood pinning...no.  We didn't have collar rank when I commissioned.  When officers were promoted from 2LT to 1LT and to CPT all of their peers punched them lightly in the chest.  And I mean lightly.  When Soldiers were promoted in 1-1 CAV I don't even remember that occurring.

Would I consider blood pinning hazing? I don't know.  You still have these kids at West Point that willingly blood pin each other on branch night and it ends up on Facebook.  We did not do that at VMI.  There was a time where blood pinning was a battle rhythm event every time a Soldier was promoted.

2.  They need to have a conversation about platoon culture.  If this is something he doesn't want going on, it's his platoon and he needs to facilitate that.  But should there be some type of right of passage.  I remember my CO wanted to create a training event that served as an initiation for Soldiers incoming to the Troop, I thought that was interesting for a variety of reasons.

3.  My troop retention NCO and I fucked up the first re-enlistment I did.  We had just gotten back from our mid-way point of Gunnery and he put something on the schedule...and then the SCO released everyone early. And this Soldier was at the Wash rack at the time.  But the real fuck up is that I had not memorized the oath...my Senior Scout scolded the shit out of me.  Every re-enlistment I did after that was having memorized the oath of enlistment.


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## Steve1839 (Mar 18, 2020)

1.  Yes, yes, and now that I'm older, yes.
2.  He should be succinct and to the point,make his point and move on.
3.  It means something to me...that's enough.


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## R.Caerbannog (Mar 18, 2020)

1.) Kinda. Jump wings and CIB were blood pinned. For promotions, the ACU velcro thing supposedly threw a wrench in old traditions. So we just gut/thorax punched the awardee on the newly velcroed rank.

Most of the platoon would give you a love tap and a hug, few people would take it a bit further. Doc would always give you a hug. Regardless, it was one punch per person. Bruising wasn't uncommon, but it'd go away after a week or two. It was a communal thing, so what went around came around.

Looking back I guess it was hazing, but in a weird way it was a point of pride and cohesion for many. Especially when you're alone as a platoon, you build bonds and create rituals of belonging amongst yourselves.

2.) Aware or not, Faith unintentionally took part in what he considers hazing. Best thing to do is learn from that lesson and drive on. If he really needs clarification he needs to link up with Ellery and hash things out. No point in stewing on things.

3.) It's not always necessary, but it's the little details that can really boost a units trust and morale. On flip side, someone reciting perfectly memorized words can still be a dirtbag, if they don't mean or live by what they parrot. We've all run into those the types of people.


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## DasBoot (Mar 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> That evening after final formation, Sergeant Ellery had 5th Platoon stand fast.  “Specialist Wilson!  Front and center!”
> 
> “Moving, Sergeant!” said Wilson enthusiastically, taking one step backwards out of his squad line and then double timing to face Ellery.
> 
> ...


1. Yes and I don’t consider it hazing. Wings, EIB and CIB were all pounded in, by people I respect. Is is it hazing? Legally yes. Anyone who would actually complain about it doesn’t warrant the award/piece of flare they’re receiving.

2.He needs to let that one slide. He shouldn’t think less of the PSG- it just lets him know this guy is “old school” and he needs to manage him accordingly.

3.Memorizing shit like that is lame. It does not impress the men. Everyone here knows the Ranger creed because it’s a great manifestation of esprit de Corps and is actually worth living by. Army regs, not so much.


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## AWP (Mar 18, 2020)

Punching/ pushing it vs. pounding it in are two different things. Hazing is..subjective.


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## racing_kitty (Mar 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> Punching/ pushing it vs. pounding it in are two different things. Hazing is..subjective.


Too right.


When I got my crab, it’s surprising that my buddy didn’t catch a sex offense charge, because he pinned it and puuuuuuuuuushed. I was cool with it. We even agreed ahead of the graduation ceremony. Thankful there were no pussies in attendance to say he was grabbing my boob.

Now, one of my former PL’s got fucked up when he got his senior badge at my unit. His orders came down before mine, so I didn’t get in on it. He wound up with a fractured collar bone, and he played dumb at the TMC. Blood crabs in my unit stopped after that one, and there was rumor that a 15-6 was coming down the pipeline. No leadership changes happened, so I’m not sure if an investigation ever happened.

Hate to see how they’d have done someone they didn’t like.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 22, 2020)

The next morning after first formation, Ellery and Faith met with Wilson to discuss his potential move to a different platoon.  Faith knew that Ellery wanted to send Wilson to 2nd Platoon, the company’s “problem-child” outfit.  But Faith had misgivings.  He wanted to set the newly-promoted Sergeant Wilson up for success, and sending him to literally the worst platoon in the company didn’t seem like a good way to do that.

Seated in their tiny office, Ellery began the conversation bluntly enough. “Sergeant Wilson, you know that my policy is to move new NCOs out of the platoon. We’ve discussed the rationale for that policy before. Do you have any questions about it?”

“No, sar’nt,” Wilson said in his slow Georgia drawl. “I don’t want to leave 5th Platoon, but I get why I need to move. It’s hard to go from “one of us” as a Joe to “one of them” as an NCO.”

Ellery nodded. “OK, then, have you given any decision to where you might want to go?”

“Second Platoon,” Wilson said without hesitation. “I think they need me the most.”

Ellery nodded again. “Sir?” he asked Faith.

Faith was a little surprised by how quickly Wilson made the decision to do the “harder right over the easier wrong.” Second Platoon really _did _need him more.

Faith had a long argument worked out in his head as to why Wilson shouldn’t go to 2nd, but with both Ellery and Wilson making the recommendation, he decided to let it go. “That’s fine with me if it’s good with you and First Sergeant,” he responded.

“OK, that’s settled then,” Ellery stated. “Sergeant Wilson, pack up your stuff and report to Sergeant Manners after lunch.”

Wilson nodded and stood up to leave.

“One more thing, Sergeant,” Faith said, stopping him.

Reaching down into his black backpack, he pulled out a framed copy of the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer which had been personalized with Wilson’s name.

“I wanted you to have this, from the platoon,” Faith told him.






Wilson held the frame in hands and looked over it. “This is really cool, sir, thanks!” he said enthusiastically. “Do you… do you think you and Sergeant Ellery could sign the back?” Faith thought the request was unusual but didn’t see any harm in it. “Of course,” he replied, reaching into his desk drawer and pulling out a black Sharpie marker.

After Wilson left with his autographed copy of the NCO Creed, Sergeant Ellery looked at Lieutenant Faith. “Wilson was right, that was a pretty cool thing to do, especially saying that it came from the platoon and not just from you.”

“Glad to do it,” said Faith. “It took me an hour total, and most of that was the drive back and forth to WalMart to get the frame. Five minutes on my laptop and one sheet of paper off my home printer.”

“It’s the thought that counts,” Ellery reminded him. “That’s probably something he’s going to keep his entire career.”

-----------

 1)  What kinds of small positive gestures do you recall from your career?

2) Conversely, what little things did you observe, do, or have done to you that had a lasting negative effect?


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## BloodStripe (Mar 22, 2020)

1) For Christmas my LT gave everyone in the platoon a Marine Corps flag. It has flown in my countries since. 

2) NCO's should be allowed space to correct things at the lowest level possible. Don't micromanage everything as an O.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 1, 2020)

The arrival of Sergeant Wilson seemed to be a breath of fresh air into the life of Second Platoon.  The platoon’s overall performance seemed to inch upward with every passing day.  This wasn’t all attributable to Wilson, of course, but he definitely helped.  His enthusiasm and no-nonsense approach to leadership freed up other leaders in the platoon to concentrate on things that they had long neglected.  It was an example of the positive impact that one motivated and caring leader can have on a unit.

The one thing that neither Wilson, nor anyone else in Second Platoon seemed to be able to do anything about, was the platoon problem child, Private Thigpen, AKA “Pigpen.”  Sergeant First Class Manners made Sergeant Wilson a team leader, and put Pigpen on Wilson’s team.  Pigpen became Wilson’s personal project.  He basically became Pigpen’s private trainer.  He helped Pigpen develop a physical fitness plan, and healthy eating plan, and a “cleanliness” regimen.  He supervised Pigpen during PT, went to the chow hall with him for breakfast, inspected his barracks room daily, and constantly drove him to perform.

This had immediate, but unfortunately not long-lasting, results.  When under the close and direct supervision of Sergeant Wilson, Private Thigpen performed.  His barracks room was spotless.  His physical fitness increased.  He began to lose weight.  He even took a shower every day… and used soap.  But whenever Wilson would ease up, Thigpen would backslide.  When Wilson unexpectedly got a slot to Ranger School shortly after joining Second Platoon, Thigpen went right back to his Pigpen ways.

Faith sought Sergeant Wilson out the day before the latter left for Ranger School to wish him good luck and to ask him if he had any questions or concerns about what he was going to face.  Although Faith never graduated from Ranger School, he felt like he spent enough time there to at least know the ropes.

“I don’t know, sir,” Wilson explained hesitatingly.  “Second Platoon really isn’t that bad.  I think Sergeant Manners just needed another NCO he could trust on board to help get the problem children all straightened out.”

“But,” he added, “Private Thigpen… sir he really is a complete dumbass.  He can’t do anything right, unless I’m right there to put a boot in his ass. 

“Well,” Faith said, “I think you’re right.  He’s probably never going to be a great Soldier, but maybe we can help him be an adequate one.  That’s one of our jobs as leaders.”

Wilson nodded.  “You’re right sir. It’s just a big pain in the ass right now.  I’m really worried about what might happen to him while I’m gone.”

“Wilson, you can’t worry about stuff like that,” Faith admonished.  “When you’re at Ranger School, you need to have one thing on your mind:  graduating Ranger School.  You worry about that, and that alone.  Pigpen is going to have to stand or fall on his own.”

“I wish people wouldn’t call him that,” Wilson replied sadly. 

“Call him what?” Faith inquired.

“Pigpen,” Wilson responded.  He’s not a bad guy, he’s just really, really dumb.  Like, I think he’s legitimately retarded or something.  But not in a mean way.  He’s not cut out for the Army but I don’t think he could function anywhere else in society, either.”

Faith thought about that for a moment.  He didn’t even realize that he had called Thigpen “Pigpen.”  It was just so… natural.

“Look,” Faith said, “I’ll… check in on Private Thigpen while you’re gone.  I’m not going to do the things that you’re doing for him, but at least he’ll know that someone else cares.  When you get back, though, you probably need to think about recommending some chapter paperwork to get this guy out of the military.  You can’t be his big brother forever.”

That’s where they left it, with Faith promising to check in on Thigpen and Wilson agreeing to not come back without his Ranger Tab.

-----
Discussion questions:
1)  Nicknames:  a net good for the organization, or a net bad?  Were you ever in a unit where nicknames were prohibited?

 2)  If you served in a unit where nicknames were popular, what was the process for assigning / earning a nickname?

3)  What was your nickname?


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## Topkick (Apr 1, 2020)

1. Depends on the soldier whether a nickname is a good idea or not. If the soldier is a shitbag and you want to change his behavior, I don't think you validate it by calling him shitbag. That's not going to build his confidence. Good soldiers can take it because they already have self confidence.


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## digrar (Apr 1, 2020)

The Australian Army is nickname central.
 Run of the mill last name or contraction of last name with O or IE on the end, Simmo, Jamesie, Smithy, Ryano, Youngy, then Tiny, or Lofty for tall blokes, Blue for blokes with red hair, also FOT (Fucking Orange Thing) gets a run, Shorty for short arses, anyone named Tailor was called Squizzy, if you inevitably had several Squizzes you'd seperate them into Big Squiz and Little Squiz. Anyone called Walker was called Phantom. Anyone from Eastern Europe with too many vowels in their name was called Wheelbarrow with a * insert first letter of name. Big powerful buggers get Donk (character in the Crocodile Dundee movies) or Horse, if your last name is Wellington, you get called Boots. 
Unpopular Officers would be saddled with FINCL or of FONC (fucking idiot no cunt likes, or friend of no cunt). And there is a Federal Senator for New South Wales by the name of Drugs, who picked up his nickname while taking his Battalion on 6 monthly 80km pack marches. 
Then the day to day casual references for each other, ball bag, shit lips, cock breath, fuck nose, cunt, knacker bags, fuck head. But if you called a bloke champ, you might be in for a fight.


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## Kraut783 (Apr 1, 2020)

1. Nicknames are good, as long as not demeaning. Never prohibited in units I was in.
2. Process was...someone just called you the name and if it stuck, as in used by others...it stuck.
3. Kraut

From my experiences in the military and police, it was a sign of acceptance into the brotherhood.

Funny family history thing...my last name is Goehring, my father was a USAF fighter pilot...his given nickname was "Hermie" as in Reichmarshal Herman Goering.


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## x SF med (Apr 1, 2020)

1) A Parker Short V-42 was a Christmas gift from my Company CO one year, It went right onto my LBE on the Left front H-riser under my Battle dressing.  I still have it and the original sheath in my collection.  The only mod I made to it (besides a proper sharpening) was wrapping the handle with 550 cord for grip.
2) The Team assigned Nicknames, and changed them depending on situation.
3) Can't even remember them all...  but The Troll stuck.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 2, 2020)

Nicknames are a very powerful thing and I think much more powerful than a lot of people realise. They can- intentionally or unintentionally- either include or exclude a person very quickly and can massively affect a person's emotional state at work for better or for worse. 

In this case it's derision that's driving the pigpen nickname. Stamping that out would be a good way to bring him back to the flock and might encourage behaviour without the sgt there. You can see by the capt. using it unintentionally how easy it is for the group think mentality to slip in and can create a "me and them" mindset, which might be half of Thigpen's problems. Either way, anyone in the chain of command has an obligation to do the best for him that they can and derogatory nicknames aren't part of that. 

We do nicknames. A lot come from variations of names and initials but there is one derogatory one that in use. He doesn't like it so I don't use it.


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## 0699 (Apr 2, 2020)

My last deployment, we had a "Marine" who didn't want to be in the Corps.   He spent everyday trying to convince the psychiatrists he was crazy so they would send him CONUS.  He was able to shit his pants whenever he wanted and that was the final straw for the psych docs.  They sent him home.  His name was Capra, so of course the Marines called him "Crapra".


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## Steve1839 (Apr 2, 2020)

1. Depends....and as for prohibition, such an edict would only have incited nicknaming...2.  Some were derivations of names, such as T.J. or Steve or Queenie (SGT McQueen hated that)...others were earned...we had a Pigpen...he did not own any item of clothing that wasn't grease stained, food stained or otherwise...3.  Steve and Volume...


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## racing_kitty (Apr 2, 2020)

1) Net good, and no unit I was in prohibited them.

2) During my commo days, the convention for gaining a nickname was fairly nebulous. My ex got his nickname by knocking on his buddy’s barracks door, looking for a spare connector. When Cornflake (our SA armorer/chem NCO) answered the door, he bellowed “it’s Daisy!” That was on a Saturday morning. By work call Monday, half the battalion was calling him Daisy. It stuck until he got out five years later.

3) I had two, from two separate social circles. One was Gizmo, earned because of the impression I used to do of a mogwai getting a blowjob. The other was DC. It stood for “Dancing Clown,” based on a drunken dance party. The guy that gave me the full nick didn’t think I’d embrace it, and my friends shortened it to DC when it became obvious that yeah, I’m well aware that I can’t dance.

*Edit for spelling


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## Marauder06 (Apr 4, 2020)

“Dammit, Pigpen, you can’t do anything right.”

That is pretty much all Faith seemed to hear anytime he was around 2nd Platoon.  And, he had to admit, it was a pretty accurate statement.  With SGT Wilson off at Ranger School, Private Thigpen (Faith decided to call him by his real name) was a hot mess.  No other NCO was willing to take Thigpen under his wing, and without “close adult supervision,” Thigpen was struggling.  He gained weight, his room standards slipped, his uniform was disheveled, and he never seemed to be on time for anything.  The latter, in particular, earned the ire of his platoon mates because of the policy of mass platoon-wide punishment for individual tardiness.

As he walked past 2nd Platoon getting smoked yet again for something else that Private Thigpen screwed up, Faith heard one of his platoon mates hiss “Pigpen, you suck.”  Faith felt bad for Private Thigpen, but he had other things to worry about.  And besides, he kind of deserved it.  He really was an idiot.

A week or so after Sergeant Wilson departed for Ranger School, Delta Company’s first sergeant announced that it was time for 5th Platoon to turn in weapons systems for maintenance.  As a heavy weapons platoon, Delta Company’s platoons were outfitted with the tube launched, optically tracked, wire guided missile system (TOW), which was essentially the only anti-armor weapon system in the entire battalion.  Each Delta platoon also maintained a pair of .50 caliber machine guns and two Mark 19 automatic grenade launcher, in addition to the standard loadout of small arms.

The TOW missile system has four major components:  the launcher, the tripod, the sight, and the missile guidance system.  While it is ostensibly “man-portable,” the components are heavy and awkward to carry.  That is why the platoons in Delta Company were equipped with a large number of vehicles.  Specifically, the platoon had a command vehicle for the platoon leader, a cargo vehicle for the platoon sergeant, and eight “gun trucks” to carry to weapons systems.  Although the TOW was allegedly the primary weapon system for the platoon, Delta Company seldom (as in, never) trained against an armored OPFOR.  It was always a light infantry fight.  So the TOWs tended to stay in the arms room when the unit went to the field, and the turrets of the gun trucks mounted either the .50s or the squad automatic weapon (SAW).  While the TOW was considered useless in training, especially in MILES, the Army’s version of Laser Tag, it boasted an exceptional thermal night sight, which most platoons typically jury-rigged to their .50s or Mark 19s to give them an edge at night.

TOW missile components also tend to wear out often.  Fortunately, Sergeant Ellery had a time-honored SOP for turning in old TOW parts.  Unfortunately for the platoon, that process involved some pretty strenuous physical training.  When the platoon assembled for PT formation the morning after the First Sergeant announced turn-in, Faith and the rest of the platoon arrived to find that Sergeant Ellery and the other NCOs in the platoon had come in early and laid out four complete sets of TOW systems which needed to be turned in.  No big deal, they could just toss them in the trucks and drive them over.

Nope.  The platoon was going to carry them to the turn-in point.  OK fine, it’s not that far away, right?

Nope.  The turn-in point was eight miles away.  They were “ruck-running” to the turn in point… and then formation run back.  Round trip:  16 miles.  But at least they wouldn’t have to carry the TOWs back with them on the return trip.

“OK, here’s how this works,” announced Sergeant Ellery.  “Two equal teams, two TOW systems each. The PL has First and Second squad.  Third and Fourth squads are with me.” 

“OK,” Faith thought, “those are pretty equal teams.  We have a shot at this.”  He and the members of First and Second squads began to shoulder the equipment.

“Which one of these sucks the most to carry?”  Faith asked of his team.

“The MGS,” was the unanimous response.  Faith grabbed one of the missile guidance systems.  It was basically a big, think square metal box with a long canvas strap to make it easier to carry.  “Easier” was relative, of course.  The box was deceptively heavy and extraordinarily awkward to carry.  Especially in a hurry.  “Man portable, my ass,” Faith thought as he shouldered the strap.

Faith paid close attention as Ellery explained the rules.  “As fast as you can to the turn in point.  One person each to carry the launcher, the tripod, the MGS, and the cables.  Two ways to win:  first team to get all of their systems across is the team winner.  First group of five from either team to get an entire TOW system set up outside the turn-in yard is the crew winner.  No inhibiting anyone on the other team.  You must travel by foot, under your own power.  No shortcuts, straight down the main road.  After turn in, formation run back.  Any questions?”

One of the specialists in Third Squad raised his hand.

“Yes, Hickman?” Ellery asked.

“What do we win, sergeant?”

“Bragging rights?” Ellery suggested.

“Laaaaaame!” Hickman jokingly responded.

Ellery reconsidered.  “Ok check it out.  The team that wins gets their vehicles PMCS’d by the losing team next Motor Pool Monday.  Well, that was certainly an incentive.  Doing preventive maintenance checks and services (PMCS) on your own vehicle was bad enough.  But having to do it for someone else’s truck?  Well that just wouldn’t stand.

“And for the first crew to get a complete TOW system set up, get’s a three-day pass.  This Friday.  I already cleared it with First Sergeant.”  This announcement was EXTREMELY motivating.  There are few things Soldiers like more than having time off.  Faith’s girlfriend was coming up from her college in Georgia this weekend.  There was going to be nothing stopping him from being on that winning crew.

“OK, come up with your team plan,” Ellery told the platoon.  “There are three stops:  when you get to CIF (the post’s central issue facility for equipment), you stop and do 101 pushups.  When you get to the Division headquarters, 101 situps.  When you get to the front gate of the turn-in facility, 125 flutter kicks.”  That last number confused Faith.  They were in the 101st Airborne Division so it made sense to do the 101 pushups and 101 situps.  But the 125 flutter kicks seemed a bit arbitrary.  His confusion must have shown on his face.

“Because we’re the 327th Infantry Regiment!” Ellery exclaimed excitedly.  OK now it makes sense.  101 pushups plus 101 situps plus 125 flutter kicks equals 327.  Maybe.  It’s too early for math…

“Well, we’re in 1st Battalion so maybe we could just do 1 / 1 / 1 instead of 101 / 101 / 125…” a Soldier helpfully suggested. 

“Shut up Hickman, before Sarge makes you do a hundred pushups before you even leave,” growled one of the platoon’s NCOs.

“That’s actually a good idea,” said Sergeant Ellery, a sadistic gleam in his eye. “Platoon—atten…tion! Half right, FACE! Front lean and rest, MOVE! In cadence…”

Well that sucked.  Most of the platoon was capable of doing 100 pushups consecutively, but doing them in slow cadence was always a smoker.

-----
discussion questions:
1)  Have you ever done MOS-related PT like what’s described in the vignette above?
2)  What’s the most interesting, useful, and/or fun PT you’ve ever done in a unit? (“Zonk” PT doesn’t count 😉 )
3)  With Wilson gone, it looks like Private Thigpen is sliding back into his bad ways.  What, if anything, can be done about it?


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## x SF med (Apr 4, 2020)

1)  hell, yes....  as an 11 and as and 18 and as a91(now 68) and as a 54 (NBC/CBRN)
2)movement to orp, build camp, break camp, movement to obj, e&e/land nav to range, run full weapons drill including range cards, PT Test, then range qual, movement back to Co area.  Movements with normal Team Load.  48 hour course.
3) Chapter Thigpen, failure to adapt, General Discharge.  Safest for him and for his fellow soldiers.  He's coming up on a Barracks/Blanket party if this isn't done fast.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 6, 2020)

“One last thing,” Ellery added as the platoon approached the starting line.  “Whatever piece of the TOW you’re starting with, you have to maintain contact with it the entire run.”

A number of men in the platoon groaned, as their assigned pieces were heavy. During PT sessions at his Officer Basic Course, Faith and the other men in his class would rotate the heavy items, such as the Stinger missiles or the mortar base plates, between individuals so that no one person would get exhausted. But that would not be an option this time.

He wasn’t even a full mile into the run before Faith realized that choosing to carry the missile guidance system was a huge mistake. While it was “man-portable,” it wasn’t really designed to be carried over long distances, and definitely wasn’t intended for someone to run with it. It banged painfully against his hip, and was too bulky to be carried on a shoulder or in front of his body. He would just have to manage as best he could.

As they were unencumbered by the weight and bulk of the other pieces of equipment, the men carrying the cables soon outdistanced the others. The men carrying the other pieces, especially the four toting the MGSs, began to lag. Faith was in good shape, but he simply had never trained for something like this. He slowed from a trot, to an “Airborne shuffle,” to basically a quick walk. He was very grateful when he got to the first directed stop, the Central Issue Facility, to do the 101 pushups. Sergeant Ellery was one of the first to arrive at CIF, and held the platoon until everyone arrived. After everyone had gathered, Ellery led the platoon in 101 four-count pushups, effectively doubling the number of pushups completed to 202. No one, not even Ellery, could do that many pushups at one time, especially given the preceding physical activity. As the pushups continued, more and more men dropped from the “front lean and rest” to their knees in order to be able to continue. By the end, everyone was thoroughly smoked.

“OK, five minutes and then you’re released to the next stop, the Division HQ,” Ellery announced.

At this rate, Faith was never going to be able to finish the race… or at least he wasn’t going to finish in any type of appreciable pace.  He had to come up with a better solution.

“Remember the rules,” said Ellery as the five-minute break wound down. You have to stay in contact with the piece of equipment you started with, for the duration of the race. Foot movement only. No shortcuts. No cheating. No inhibiting other teams. Next stop is Division HQ. One minute.”

As the members of his four-person team stood up to prepare to continue movement, Faith called out to them.

“Guys, we need a plan if we’re going to win this thing,” he said. The other members of his team nodded in approval.



-----
Given the rules put in place, what would your plan be to move the team’s equipment the rest of the way to the finish line in the fastest way possible?


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## Andoni (Apr 6, 2020)

I'm not sure if this plan is either A) feasible or B) realistic, specifically because if the guys aren't around the same height, or the cables are too long, this carry will be ackward and create more work.

However, if they're about the same height, and the cables are about the right length, it may work to:

1. Take one or multiple set of cables. Take one MGS case.
2. Fold cables in half to shorten the length.
3. Run the cable through the MGS case canvas strap.
4. Put a guy on the front end of the cable and the other guy at the back.
5. Run holding the cable on their shoulders, creating tension, with the MGS case suspended in the middle of the cable.

Reevaluate at Division and if it's hilly, and the case slides, consider moving to:

1. One guy carrying cables switching off with a guy carrying the MGS case with each maintaining contact with their original equipment by using a hand as they ran next to each other. 

or 

2. If the MGS box is big enough, two people carrying the MGS case without using the strap, and putting the cables across their shoulders, while running in step.

This case study is so great to read. It's the highlight of my night.


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## x SF med (Apr 6, 2020)

Team carry Items - as long as the original portager has contact with the item, someone else can carry the item - so switch back and forth from the original carrier to one or more platoon members.  So a strap attached to the item to allow the original carrier would keep whoever is actually carrying from getting tangled up.


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 7, 2020)

I don't know TOW's but if the cables plug into the bits as they must... plug the damn cables in so you can at least buddy rotate off on the heavy end.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 7, 2020)

Andoni said:


> *I'm not sure if this plan is either A) feasible or B) realistic, specifically because if the guys aren't around the same height, or the cables are too long, this carry will be ackward and create more work.*
> 
> However, if they're about the same height, and the cables are about the right length, it may work to:
> 
> ...



Ref. the bolded part above:

That is actually a really good point, and I think you're probably 100% correct.  Thinking back, that might be why we never tried to do it that way in real life.   When I do the edits on this, I might delete that part completely, or at least change it up a bit.  For purposes of this story, though, it was a brilliant idea and worked perfectly.  ;)


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## Marauder06 (Apr 7, 2020)

As a group, Faith’s team of four quickly developed a plan that made it easier to transport the TOW equipment and adhered to the spirit of the rules of the race.  The two men carrying the TOW launch tube and tripod lined up one behind the other and put an end of the launcher and tripod on each shoulder.  Faith and the soldier on his team carrying the cables ran two of the cables through loops on the MGS and, holding one end in each hand, were able to share the load between the two of them.  After about the second mile, most individuals went from a slow run to spurts of running interspersed with periods of walking.  

By the third mile, there was little running. By the fourth mile, there was only marching. The “shared load” technique began to pay off. Faith’s crew of four began to pass several of the individuals on other teams. Only the men carrying the cables were ahead of them as they approached the Division Headquarters and their next stop. As the passed one soldier from the platoon struggling under the weight of a tripod, the man called out “hey, that’s cheating!” “How?” asked the soldier carrying the MGS with LT Faith. The other man had no reply.

Faith’s team had a good rest while they waited for the rest of the platoon to arrive at the Division HQ. By now the platoon had moved about five and a half miles from the start position. Everyone, even Sergeant Ellery, seemed exhausted. The morale of the platoon was high, though; the comraderie and the spirit of competition were carrying them through the tough times.

“Good technique, sir,” Ellery said to Faith.  “OK folks,” he shouted when the last members of the platoon finally straggled in.  “OK folks, pair off into buddy teams.  The next exercise will be… THE SITUP!”

After completing 101 four-count situps, Faith’s abs felt as sore and exhausted as the rest of him.  During the break, Faith’s team decided that during the final leg of the race they would place the MGS on top of the tripod and launcher, effectively turning it into a litter.  They would also use the cables to tie down the MGS so that it didn’t slide off during movement.  Using this technique, the weight of the equipment was borne by only two people at a time, giving the other two the opportunity to rest somewhat during the move.  The two not carrying the equipment walked to the left and right of the two men doing the carrying in order to maintain contact with the equipment.  When the men carrying the load became exhausted, they would swap out with the two men on the outside, and the process would continue.

Seeing the success of the technique, the other crews in the race emulated it to varying degrees. But Faith’s team had a sizeable lead as they approached the turn-end point and the end of the 8-mile “death run.” Faith was feeling pretty confident, but when he turned to look behind him he saw Ellery’s team moving up fast.

“Oh shit, here comes Ellery,” Faith exclaimed, “Guys, we’re going to have to pick it up!” There wasn’t much left in the tank physically, but Faith’s team managed to gut it out at a slow shuffle and pass through the gate into the turn-in point just ahead of Ellery’s team. Both teams turned off into a grassy area just inside the gate, set their gear down, and collapsed on the ground.

“Holy shit I’m smoked,” said Hickman, echoing how everyone else felt.

There was a bit of a lag between the time Faith’s and Ellery’s teams arrived, and that of the other teams. First and Second Squads came in first, which meant Faith’s team won overall. When everyone arrived, Sergeant Ellery led the group in 125 four-count flutter kicks. By the time they were done, Faith felt completely exhausted. Between the 8 mile run with TOW equipment, and the hundreds of repetitions of pushups, situps, and flutter kicks, Faith was, like the rest of the platoon, completely exhausted.

Faith was happy his team won the team event, but he didn’t PMCS vehicles anyway so the idea of having a different team do PMCS for him was moot. What he really wanted was the three-day pass.

“There are water fountains inside the turn-in point,” Ellery stated.  Hydrate up, and report back here in 15 minutes for the run back.”  Ugh, that’s right.  They still had to run the eight miles back to the company area.  Faith was NOT looking forward to that.  Ellery and Faith took a spot at the end of the line to get water, but the line moved quickly and Faith soon drank his fill.  He still felt a headache coming on, a sure indicator that he was dehydrated.  The run back was NOT going to be fun.  Faith just hoped he could make it without passing out.

After the water break, the platoon formed up for the crew competition, to see who could get a TOW assembled an into action the quickest.  Unfortunately, Faith was of little help in this, as his knowledge of the TOW was extremely limited.  Having the LT on the team turned out to be a liability, and a crew from 3rd Squad won the three-day pass.

After the competition, Sergeant Ellery supervised the turn-in of the TOW equipment, receiving a stack of paperwork in return. He then had the platoon form up in the parking lot, where two 5-ton trucks had arrived during the time they were doing the turn-in.

“At ease! Good job, men,” he told the assembled group. “That was a lot more fun than I thought it was going to be.” Faith agreed. He was tired, and knew that his body would be sore in the morning, but this was a great chance to work with the men in the platoon and to see what they were made of. It was a real “gut check.” But it was not over yet. They still had eight more miles to go…

“We’re going to head on back home now,” Ellery explained. Faith prepared himself mentally for the long run back. He hoped it would be slow.

“Platoon, atten…tion!” Ellery commanded. “Right, face!” The platoon was now facing the 5-ton trucks. Ellery paused.

“OK, mount the trucks,” he said with a smile. There was a second of not understanding, and then the realization hit that they were _not_  going to have to run eight miles, and the expressions of gratitude began.  “Yesss….” Faith thought as he lined up to get in the back of the first truck.

 “You’re up front, sir,” said Sergeant Spence.

Faith hesitated.  “I don’t want to ride in a comfy seat when everyone else is bouncing around in the back on a hard bench,” he responded.

“Driver needs a TC,” Spence explained, using the acronym for “truck commander.”  “You’re the highest ranking, sir.”

Well, the 101st Blue Book standard operating procedure did specify that the highest-ranking person would ride in the front as the TC during all vehicular movement.  Faith begrudgingly hoped up into the passenger seat of the lead 5-ton.  Sergeant Ellery did the same in the other truck.  Despite his best intentions, Faith fell asleep almost as soon as the truck started moving.  It had already been a very long day.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 7, 2020)

Holy shit.

The End???


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## Marauder06 (Apr 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> The End???



LOL, no.  Have to get to the dramatic plot-twist ending, and a wrap up to a lot of the loose ends.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 7, 2020)

Despite the faux pas of falling asleep while serving as TC, the trip back to the company are was thankfully uneventful.  Faith woke up when the truck stopped moving.  “End of the line, sir,” said the driver.  Faith thanked him and then slid down out of the truck.  His legs were already sore from the morning’s PT session, not a good sign.  He moved around to the back of the truck and helped a few soldiers down.

Because of the lengthy PT session and the turn-in of the TOW systems, the platoon was getting back well after PT hours had officially ended. It wasn’t a big deal, it just meant that the platoon would be getting a later start on their day. The soldiers on the meal plan missed breakfast in the chow hall, but none of them seemed concerned about it.

Ellery dismissed the platoon for showers, and he and Faith went inside the company area to put the turn-in paperwork on the First Sergeant’s desk and to see if any of note had happened while they were gone.  It had been a slow morning.  Ellery needed to grab something out of the office, so Faith exited the back door to go to his car, which was parked in the back lot.

As he exited the building, he stretched and took a deep breath.  He was sore, and his body was going to punish him for what he did to it today.  But he felt good.  He felt a sense of accomplishment with a job well done at PT, and he felt genuinely accepted by the men of the platoon.  It was going to be a good week.  Plus Lilith, his girlfriend, was coming up from school to spend the weekend with him.  Yes, it was going to be a good week, indeed.

His mood quickly soured, though, when he exited the building. The back of the company was sheltered somewhat from the back parking lot, partly by the design of the building and also by a pair of large dumpsters. A knot of Soldiers was congregated between the dumpsters and a corner of the building. Faith was surprised to see anyone at all back there during this time of day; usually, this was the time when literally everyone in the company was eating chow or recovering from PT and getting ready for the day.

The space behind the company area was small, and Faith was only a few steps away from the group when he exited the building. There were four or five individuals dressed in their gray Army physical fitness uniforms clustered around another individual who was on the ground. The standing group was taking turns slapping and kicking the individual on the ground. Faith knew who that person had to be.

“Hey, knock that shit off,” Faith said loudly. When the group turned to face him, Faith saw Thigpen on the ground, the “usual suspects” from 2nd Platoon, and one face he didn’t expect.

“This is the second time you’ve involved yourself in my platoon’s business,” growled Sergeant First Class Manners, 2nd Platoon’s platoon sergeant, plainly angry at the interruption. “You keep it up, you might find yourself more involved than you want to be.”

It wasn’t a direct threat per se, but its meaning was clear. Faith was more stunned than scared. He expected this kind of behavior from the lower enlisted, but not from a senior NCO. NCOs were supposed to prevent this kind of behavior, not encourage it.

“That’s going to have to be a platoon thing, then,” came a now-familiar voice from behind him. Faith didn’t even have to turn around to know it was Ellery. Faith didn’t want to fight. He was tired. Moreover, despite his initial deep dislike of the man, over the couple of weeks he had been in Delta Company, Faith had come to respect Sergeant Manners. And he definitely didn’t want to fight a guy he respected, while he was tired, over a genuine dirtbag like Thigpen. But Faith was a man of both pride and principle. He wasn’t afraid to throw hands if the situation required.


“Thigpen, get up and get your ass out of here,” Faith instructed.

“You stay where you are, Private!” Manners snapped. “This is Second Platoon business. When it becomes 5th Platoon business, we’ll let you know… _sir_!”

At about this time a group of 5th Platoon’s members, on the way to try to score breakfast from the local shoppette, happened by. “Hey sir! Great PT this morning. Need anything from the shoppette?”

Faith waved them off. Sensing something was off, the 5th Platoon Soldiers drew closer.

“Um… are we OK here Sarge?” they asked Ellery. Noticing the odds taking a turn out of their favor, the group from 2nd Platoon seemed willing to break contact.

“It kind of looks like this is about to be everybody’s business,” Ellery said to Manners. “If you don’t want this to be First Sergeant’s business too, I think everybody better take a deep breath and let… whatever this is… go.”

“If you like this shitbag so much, why don’t YOU take him, then?”  challenged Manners.

“Nope, you handle your business, Sergeant,” replied Ellery firmly.

Manners lunged towards Ellery. “This is it,” Faith thought to himself, imagining that a platoon-on-platoon brawl was about to erupt. “This is how half of the platoon-level leadership in Delta Company gets relieved.” But Manners just got in Ellery's face, no hands were thrown. Manners looked furious. For his part, Edwards stood firm, his arms crossed over his chest. He seemed totally calm and unconcerned.

“Handle my business? That’s what I was fucking doing, Ellery,” Manners hissed.  He then turned and glared at Faith before walking off.

Corporal Laser helped Thigpen up off the ground.  “Pigpen, you’ve got to start sticking up for yourself,” he said.  “5th Platoon’s not always going to be there for you.”

“You’ve got to take matters into your own hands, bro,” added Specialist Stringer.

“Come on Pigpen, let’s go get some chow,” said a third 5th Platoon Soldier.

After everyone else departed, Ellery sighed deeply.  “Sir, I think we should have a talk,” Ellery said to Faith.

-----

1)  This is at least the second time that LT Faith almost got into a brawl with Soldiers from 2nd Platoon.  What are your thoughts on that?

2) What do you think Ellery and Faith are going to talk about?


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 7, 2020)

For whatever reason, this is one of my favorite case studies.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For whatever reason, this is one of my favorite case studies.



Best parts still to come.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

1)  This is wild and something I never encountered in my time.  However, it sounds like something that would happen rather often.  At some point he will need to use his chain and get that kid out of the company or chaptered out of the Army.  If Soldiers didn't meet standards, we used the tools that that regulations gave us and we kicked dudes out. 

2) Ellery might about save his LTs life right now.


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## Steve1839 (Apr 8, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> “Nope, you handle your business, Sergeant,” replied Ellery firmly.
> 
> Manners lunged towards Edwards. “


Inquiring minds want to know...are Ellery and Edwards the same guy?

1)  Never experienced that sort of rivalry...at the end of our involvement in Vietnam, there was tremendous racial tension in the Army (a reflection of the racial tension in our society), and that would get out of hand frequently, but I never saw that sort of tension between platoons...As far as the LT in the case study goes, in my opinion, he is right to intervene...
2) One of two things...Ellery might suggest that LT Faith mind his own business or he may suggest taking Thigpen into the platoon...personally, I would have had a visit with the 2nd Platoon leader and would be strongly considering taking the issue up with the company commander...


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## BloodStripe (Apr 8, 2020)

1) Never have I seen an enlisted person talk to a LT or any officer like that. That SFC had better like to be a Pvt all over again as he gets his ass chaptered out. As far as Faith goes, he needs to learn to use his rank. I am a proponent of both respecting the rank and the person. While you may not always like them, you must respect what is on their collar/sleeve.

2) I think Faith and Ellery are going to talk about using rank and hopefully charging Manners under Art 15. Paper sucks but if he's willing to disrespect an officer in the public of others, every action has consequences. Lower enlisted can get away with platoon fights, officers and senior enlisted cannot.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 8, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Inquiring minds want to know...are Ellery and Edwards the same guy?



Typo.  Thanks for noticing, I went back and fixed it.


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## LibraryLady (Apr 8, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Typo.  Thanks for noticing, I went back and fixed it.


Your NCOs are slacking.

LL


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## Steve1839 (Apr 8, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Typo.  Thanks for noticing, I went back and fixed it.


I think you have one more in the following paragraph...somehow, I suspect Edwards might be the name of a platoon sergeant that this case study may be based on, but that's just an assumption on my part...


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## Steve1839 (Apr 8, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Your NCOs are slacking.


He does seem unsupervised...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 8, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> I think you have one more in the following paragraph...somehow, I suspect Edwards might be the name of a platoon sergeant that this case study may be based on, but that's just an assumption on my part...



I did a find/replace in the Word version, that should take care of it.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 8, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> He does seem unsupervised...



perpetually ;)


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## Marauder06 (Apr 8, 2020)

There was outdoor Expert Infantry Badge training scheduled for the company and it lasted the rest of the day.  It was “round robin” style, so 2nd and 5th Platoon never really saw each other the rest of the day.  That was good, because it gave everyone a chance to cool off.  Faith considered a lot of different options:  he could confront Sergeant Manners, he could report him to the company commander, or he could just let it go as a “just between us platoons” issue.  Given his status as the new (and un-tabbed) guy in the company, Faith wasn’t sure how much help he would get from the company-level leadership.  And confronting Manners again might not be the best option.  So Faith decided he was probably just going to let this one go… for now.

That night, Faith thought about the day and what Sergeant Ellery said to him that morning after everyone else left, and the decision he now had to make. Being in the 101st was turning into a wild ride; sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad. What was interesting though was that everything bad seemed to lead back to one person: Private Thigpen. But then again, Faith recognized that sticking up for Thigpen that first day at the company was what put him on Ellery’s radar and got him a job as a platoon leader in the best platoon in the company, if not the battalion. Nonetheless, Faith thought that everyone, including him, would be better off if Thigpen just wasn’t around. That’s what made Faith’s decision even harder.

The next morning after PT, Sergeant Ellery had the platoon stand fast after the rest of the platoons were dismissed. “5th Platoon, bring it in,” he instructed. After the 20 or so members of the platoon closed in around him, he turned to Lieutenant Faith. “Sir, did you make your decision?”

Faith sighed. “Roger. Let’s do it.”

Ellery nodded. “Men, I’m proud of you,” he said to the assembled group. “Yesterday was a gut check… a kick in the balls, even. You went through it together, and you came out on the other end stronger. I’m proud of you for that.”

“I’m proud of you for that, but not just that,” Ellery continued.  “We suffer, together.  We train, we learn, we get better, together.  Shared suffering builds strong teams.  Strong teams get the mission done.  Getting the mission done is why we’re here,” Ellery explained forcefully.

“I’m also proud of you for the way you take care of each other, and how you take care of us.  And how you take care of people who are _not _us.”

“We are strong. And because we are strong, we can afford to be compassionate. Empathy is not a weakness, when you are strong.”

“There are many different types of strength. Some of you are strong physically. Some of you are strong mentally. But all of you are strong because you’re part of this team.”

“All of you know I don’t like hazing, and I don’t like its ugly sister, bullying. I got bullied and hazed my whole life, until I woke up one morning and realized I was 6’3” and 200 pounds and didn’t have to take anyone’s shit anymore.”

The platoon stared in totally rapt attention while Ellery talked. To begin with, Ellery tended to be a man of few words; this was the longest anyone had ever heard him talk. Additionally, it was hard for anyone to envision how someone as hard core as Ellery got bullied… ever. And finally, this was the first time any of them had ever heard Ellery use a swear word in public.

“Many of you don’t understand, or don’t agree with, my position on hazing,” Ellery continued, “So I’m going to explain it to you.  Teamwork and esprit de corps are built on shared suffering and hardship—with an emphasis on the “shared” part.  Because the only person doing the suffering is the individual on the receiving end.  Everyone else is a bully,” he explained.

“I’m sure you, like I, am thrilled to finally have a platoon leader back in 5th Platoon,” Ellery stated.  “But the LT isn’t the newest member of 5th Platoon.”

The soldiers looked confused.

“The newest member of the 5th Platoon family is going to be here in about four minutes.  You already know him.  You know his capabilities and his limitations.  Everyone in the Army has their place.  Some places are better for different people than others.  We’re all expected to “bloom where we are planted,” but some people just need a change in scenery in order to grow.”

 “And that’s why Private Thigpen is joining our platoon.”

There was a mixture of groans and cries of disbelief from the platoon.

“Oh, God dammit,” exclaimed Corporal Laser, accurately summarizing the platoon’s sentiment.

“At ease that noise!” Ellery shouted, silencing the sounds of disgruntlement.

“Private Thigpen is getting a rehab transfer to 5th Platoon,” Ellery continued.  “I cleared it with First Sergeant yesterday, and the LT approved it this morning.  Look,” he continued, his voice softening somewhat, “I recognize that many of you think he’s a screwup.  But as of this morning, he’s OUR screwup.  No one harasses him, except us.  I take that back.  No one harasses him AT ALL.  We’re helping him.  We all help train him.  No one punishes him, except me.  We protect our own,” he concluded.  “Anyone who doesn’t like it is welcome to take it up with me after hours.

No one said anything.  They didn’t need to.  And that was how Private Anthony Thigpen became part of 5th Platoon, Delta Company, 1/327 Infantry, 101st Airborne Division.

-----

Discussion Questions:
1) Why did Ellery make Thigpen, the worst-performing Soldier in the company, a member of 5th Platoon, the highest-performing platoon in the company?

2)  What steps should the platoon leadership take to ensure Thigpen’s success in the platoon… or to at least minimize the damage he might inflict on it?


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## BloodStripe (Apr 8, 2020)

Coming from FAST Company to the Fleet, everyone thinks less of you. You show up to the Fleet not having done your grunt job for 2 years and often times show up as an NCO or very close to it. I was promoted to Corporal shortly after I arrived and was instantly promoted to a Squad Leader billet. About two weeks after I was promoted, a Marine from a different platoon in the Company called his PL a dumb Jew or something very similar to that. He was nearly NJP'd and admin SEP was being thrown around. I decided to take a flyer and ask that he come to my squad as a way to prove myself. He was known to have a shitty attitude to basically everyone higher in rank. He ended up performing successfully in the squad (still had a few minor bumps but overall he got better). He even reeinlisted and made Staff Sergeat before getting out at his 12 year mark.

Based on Thigpen's known history as a poor performer, he needs to be put on the team with the best team leader who can be there to babysit him. When babysat, Thigpen has shown the ability to be at least an average Soldier.


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## Kraut783 (Apr 8, 2020)

Ellery better be careful....I saw Full Metal Jacket.....


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## Marauder06 (Apr 8, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Ellery better be careful....I saw Full Metal Jacket.....
> 
> View attachment 33125




Spoiler:  no one gets shot in this case study.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

1) Not the worst decision they could have made.  Sounds like Ellery has everything straight and knows exactly how to build a good culture within a platoon.  The foundation he already set will allow Thigpen to grow in a bunch of ways, he won't need an NCO to drag him to be better but he'll have squad mates that drag him out to the gym and for extra runs.  I had guys in my platoon that looked out for each other, when someone happened to bust tape (I don't know how, we PTd into the ground), I'd then see one of my studs taking those dudes to the gym or running the brigade footprint on weekends.  

2.  Make sure he's with the best squad leader and team leader in the platoon.  Make sure his buddy team member knows what's up, likely looking for a shithot SPC4 to take him under his wing.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 9, 2020)

Over the course of the day, Faith thought about what Ellery told the platoon.  While he agreed with everything Ellery said, he found it hard to square what Ellery _said_, with what Ellery_ did_. For example, Ellery allowed, and even encouraged, good-natured “birthday beatdowns” within the platoon. That involved a platoon-level dogpile of the birthday boy, and an ensuing “red belly,” where the victim’s shirt was pulled up, and he received a number of belly slaps equal to his age. Faith saw this happen a time or two within the company, and while Ellery did not participate, he stood by and watched it happen, usually with a grin on his face. The recipient of the birthday beatdown was allowed to fight back, but 20-on-1 was always bad odds. While this was meant in good fun, and in fact *not* getting a birthday beatdown meant that you were socially excommunicated from the unit, it was still a form of hazing.

The other part Faith found odd was Ellery’s active participation in blood pinning. That was specifically forbidden in the Army’s anti-hazing guidance, although it (like much of the rest of the prohibitions) was widely ignored. So it seemed odd to Faith that Ellery would be so anti-hazing on the one hand, but tolerate and/or participate in acts of hazing on the other. While he wanted to ask Ellery about it, he decided to keep that to himself for now.

With Thigpen in 5th Platoon and now under the close, direct, and constant supervision of Corporal Laser, he once again began to improve. He started losing weight again, his grooming and uniform standards improved once more, and he stopped being late for formation. But it was a huge effort, and not just for Laser. Faith found that he deeply disliked Thigpen. The man was unquestionably a complete idiot. He was barely literate, extremely awkward socially, and would ramble incoherently to anyone who was willing to take the time to talk to him… which proved to be fewer and fewer people as time went on.

Shortly after Thigpen joined 5th Platoon, Faith’s girlfriend Lilith called him to let him know that she had a long weekend and would be coming up to visit. She would arrive on Thursday afternoon and stay through Sunday. Faith had to work Friday, but would have the rest of the weekend off. This was the longest period of time they would have together in years, so Faith was pretty happy.

Faith made the mistake of mentioning his girlfriend was coming to visit, which set off a storm of speculation within the lower enlisted and the junior NCOs. On Thursday, the day that Lilith was scheduled to arrive, the company had weapons maintenance scheduled. Faith and Ellery took their weapons into their shared office, but there wasn’t enough room for the whole platoon so everyone else sat on the floor of the large hallway just outside. It was an interesting phenomenon that when people can’t be seen, they think that can’t be heard. But with the door ajar, Faith was able to hear bits and pieces of the conversation going on outside.

“So, the LT’s girlfriend’s coming up this weekend,” one of his Soldiers said. “I bet he’ll be in a good mood on Monday.”

“At least SOMEONE is getting laid around here,” said another.

“You’ve got no money and no game,” the first voice said. “But you couldn’t get laid even if you had both, because you’re ugly as fuck.”

“Your mom didn’t think so last night,” came the inevitable reply.

Faith grinned at the Soldier banter. It reminded him of conversations that took place in every locker room, every fraternity house, and the back of every school bus… wherever there were groups of young men who were very comfortable with each other. What he found particularly amusing was the speculation about what his girlfriend looked like.

“The LT’s a brainiac… I bet his girlfriend is like 5 feet tall with huge glasses. Like Daphne from Scooby Doo.”

“More like Shamu from Sea World.  The LT’s girlfriend is from Georgia.  If she’s anything like those girls in Columbus or Dahlonega, she’s probably 300 pounds and already has three kids,” said the first voice.

“Nah, officers make that big money.  They’ve got fine girls for days,” said a voice that Faith recognized as belonging to Corporal Laser.  Well, at least one person believed in him.  

Eventually a bet was proposed. “Corporal, I’ll bet you $5 that the LT’s girlfriend is fugly.”

“I’m in on that action,” said a voice that Faith now recognized as belonging to Specialist Stringer.

“Nah, let’s make it $10 each, because that’s what I bet the LT’s girlfriend is… a 10,” argued Laser.

Ellery heard this exchange and gave Faith a “You want me to shut that down?” look. Faith waved him off. Ordinarily he might take offense at something like this, but Faith knew his girlfriend was an absolute stunner, so he said nothing. And he was glad to help Corporal Laser win his friends’ money.

5th Platoon’s office was closest to the back door of the company area. Towards the end of the day, Faith heard a tentative knock at the back door. That was strange, because during duty hours it was unlocked so people could come and go as they pleased. One of the troops sitting in the hallway cleaning weapons said “I’ve got it” and went to the door. Faith heard the Soldier say, “Hello, can I help you ma’am?” OK that made sense, someone’s dependa was at the door. That happened from time to time. But then he heard a voice that stopped him in his tracks.

“Um, hi, I’m here for Lieutenant Faith?” the voice said.  Faith jumped up and hurried to the back door.

Lilith was beautiful naturally, but she really brought it today.  Her long blonde hair was down, she had put on makeup that helped highlight her deep blue eyes, and she was wearing a sundress that accented her body’s curves in a way that was both attractive, and managed to still be modest.  She looked embarrassed.

“Hi,” Faith said to her hesitatingly. “Um… what are you doing here?” The plan for Lilith to go straight to Faith’s on-post Bachelor Officer Quarters and wait for him there.

“I’m sorry,” said Lilith, “I got to your place, but I couldn’t find where you hid the key.”

“Crap.” Faith said. He meant to hide it on the top of his door sill like he told Lilith he would, but had completely forgotten. The key was still in his pocket. “I’m sorry babe, that’s on me,” he said, pulling the key from his pocket and handing it to her.

Lilith looked relieved. “Oh, it’s fine, I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t done something stupid. See you back at your place?”

“Sure, we shouldn’t be much longer. Wait,” he said, suddenly changing his mind, “I want to introduce you to my platoon sergeant.”

“Oh, that would be great!” Lilith said, enthusiastically.

Faith and Lilith made their way through the men seated on the floor who, uncharacteristically, were now completely quiet.  For his part, Corporal Laser was grinning broadly. After the office door closed, Faith heard him say “Hahahaha… pay up, bitches!”

 Faith introduced Lilith to Sergeant Ellery, and was pleased that they immediately hit it off.  Lilith was gracious and engaging.  Of course, it also helped that she was very pretty.  For his part, Ellery was modest and actually quite humorous, a side Faith really hadn’t seen much of before.  Despite the wanted distraction, Faith did have a job to do, and the sooner he got it done, the sooner he could get home to Lilith.

“OK babe, I’ll walk you out to your car and I’ll come pick you up for dinner after we’re done here,” Faith told his girlfriend.

“Sure thing.  What’s on the agenda for tomorrow?”

“Well, we’ve got PT in the morning, then motor stables most of the day, and if we get to them, we’re doing radios too.”

“What’s on the menu for PT?” Lilith asked.

“Air assault ropes training, then platoon basketball,” Ellery informed her.

“Ooh, sounds like fun!  Can I come?” she aked.

“Ummm…” Faith hesitated.  He wasn’t so sure this was a good idea.  He looked at Ellery.

“I don’t see a problem with her doing PT with us in the morning if she wants,” Ellery informed him.  “I mean, if you think she can hang… . “  He was clearly teasing with that last part.

Lilith was extremely fit, and extremely competitive.  “Oh, I can hang,” Lilith assured him confidently as she walked out of the office.  “See you at formation tomorrow!” she added cheerfully.

When Faith came back in after walking his girlfriend to her car, his platoon gave him a standing ovation.  “Fuck you guys,” he said good naturedly as he returned to his office to finish cleaning his weapons.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 9, 2020)

Time for Thigpen to go. After sleeping on it, he's a risk on the battlefield if he needs that close of supervision all the time.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 9, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Time for Thigpen to go. After sleeping on it, he's a risk on the battlefield if he needs that close of supervision all the time.


Yep.  Even Private Pyle (Full Metal Jacket) finally got his ass squared away, but doing so turned him into a psycho who snapped and killed his D.I.  Had he not, he 100% would have been one of those 'ear necklace' wearing dudes in Nam.  No bueno.


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## Kraut783 (Apr 9, 2020)

So...Thigpen and Lilith met at PT and fall madly in love, LT is crushed and the platoon ridicules him for not being a real man and LT hangs himself in the barracks?


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## Isiah6:8 (Apr 9, 2020)

Potentially Dumb Question Here:

Is that normal for significant others or others to participate in this sort of stuff with the team during a normal training time and not an "open or dog/pony" event?  I've never been a part of a team that allowed that so just find it interesting, but I have also never been in the military.  It was always known that was a serious no-go and why there were specific events on the calendar for that stuff.


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## Steve1839 (Apr 9, 2020)

Isiah6:8 said:


> Potentially Dumb Question Here:
> 
> Is that normal for significant others or others to participate in this sort of stuff with the team during a normal training time and not an "open or dog/pony" event?


From my experience, family members have been allowed that sort of access during events like Family Day, Organization Day, etc.  Spouse, friends, etc., were never allowed past the CQ desk in the units I've served in...


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## BloodStripe (Apr 9, 2020)

Isiah6:8 said:


> Potentially Dumb Question Here:
> 
> Is that normal for significant others or others to participate in this sort of stuff with the team during a normal training time and not an "open or dog/pony" event?  I've never been a part of a team that allowed that so just find it interesting, but I have also never been in the military.  It was always known that was a serious no-go and why there were specific events on the calendar for that stuff.



We had Jane Wayne Day, where spouses put on a uniform and got to participate in a few team building activities. Never saw a family member part of PT and if it were squad PT (which was most days) I would have not allowed it.


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## racing_kitty (Apr 9, 2020)

Right before my third deployment, we had to take a PT test just before block leave. It was a chilly morning by FSGA standards, so we were in varying degrees of winter PT uniforms. Our CO had his identical twin brother, who was a civilian, don a spare set of his winter PTs, and wait on a side street by our run route until the ops NCO radioed that the run had started. He then entered the route and began speed walking back to the starting line. That fucked with EVERYONE except the ops NCO and the commander, since none of us knew he had an identical twin at all.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 9, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> So...Thigpen and Lilith met at PT and fall madly in love, LT is crushed and the platoon ridicules him for not being a real man and LT hangs himself in the barracks?



"hate!!"  lol


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## medicchick (Apr 9, 2020)

Isiah6:8 said:


> Potentially Dumb Question Here:
> 
> Is that normal for significant others or others to participate in this sort of stuff with the team during a normal training time and not an "open or dog/pony" event?  I've never been a part of a team that allowed that so just find it interesting, but I have also never been in the military.  It was always known that was a serious no-go and why there were specific events on the calendar for that stuff.


I used to use the Ranger gym during non pt hours but pt with the guys? Big nope.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 9, 2020)

OK, I talked to my wife about how this part went down in real life.  She said the basketball game wasn't during PT hours, and that it would be weird for someone's girlfriend to show up for PT.  She also says she's pretty sure the real-life "Ellery" never would have allowed it :)  that part is now changed to:

/////

“OK babe, I’ll walk you out to your car and I’ll come pick you up for dinner after we’re done here,” Faith told his girlfriend.

“Sure thing.  What’s on the agenda for the rest of the day?”

“We just have to finish up weapons maintenance, and then after formation, the young bucks have challenged us old fogeys,” indicating himself and Sergeant Ellery “to a basketball game.”

“Sounds like fun, can I come watch?”  she asked.

Faith didn’t see why not.  He looked at Ellery.

“I don’t see a problem with that.  In fact, if she wants to play in the game we can do five on five instead of four on four,” Ellery informed him.  “I mean, if you think she can hang… . “  He was clearly teasing with that last part.

Lilith was extremely fit, and extremely competitive.  “Oh, I can hang,” Lilith assured him confidently as she walked out of the office.  “I’ll go change clothes, and then you call me when it’s time for the game,” she added cheerfully.

When Faith came back in after walking his girlfriend to her car, his platoon gave him a standing ovation.  “Fuck you guys,” he said good naturedly as he returned to his office to finish cleaning his weapons.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 9, 2020)

Faith called Lilith right before final formation, and Lilith pulled up just as the formation was ending.  She was wearing sneakers, sweatpants, a larger “MACON UNIVERSITY” sweatshirt, a red knit had and black gloves as insulation against the cold.  The members of 5th platoon wore their winter PT uniform of gray sweats, black leather gloves, a black watch cap, and a reflective PT belt.  

After the formation broke up, 5th Platoon drifted over to the PT pit on the far side of the parking lot, and Lilith joined them there. The pit contained a set of pullup bars, a situp area, and a large contraption made of telephone poles, from which two 30’ ropes dangled. After the first and last formations of the day, the platoon adjourned to the pit for pullups and a rope climb. The 101st “Airborne” Division was actually an Air Assault unit, and a significant portion of Air Assault School involved climbing a rope. Faith never quite got that, since in an actual air assault you’re sliding down the rope not climbing up it… but whatever. Practicing the rope climbs helped the platoon’s new arrivals prepare for the course.

There was no formality at all to it; everyone knew the drill. While some individuals mounted the pullup bars, others queued up for the rope. The ones who were waiting stamped and shuffled to try to help ward off the cold.

The hardest part of climbing a rope in this weather, Faith mused, was the effect that the cold had on one’s hands. In order to get a good grip on the rope, most people (Faith included) had to strip off their gloves. And of course when that happened, it exposed one’s hands to the cold, making the hands turn numb and increasing the difficulty of the climb.

Climbing a rope was all about technique, and Faith’s technique was to use his legs more than his arms anyway, so his hands were basically just used to hold himself in place when he repositioned his legs during the climb. Lilith watched as Faith easily made his way up the rope, slapped the bar at the top, and then shimmied back down. The roped were close together, and some of the Soldiers would race each other to the stop. Seeing Lilith watching the action, Sergeant Spence asked her if she wanted to give it a go. She jumped at the chance, and climbed the rope using the hand-over-hand technique, which was harder than the leg-based “inchworm” that Faith and many of the other Soldiers used.

When Lilith got done with her first climb, she took a rope in each hand and was able to pull herself halfway up the ropes using that technique before she tired and let herself back down.  That technique required a level of upper body strength as well as a degree of coordination that most people didn’t possess.  Only a couple of men in the platoon could do it.  The Soldiers were impressed.

“Show off,” Faith joked to Lilith after she finished her second climb.  She just smiled.

There was only one Soldier in the entire platoon who couldn’t make the climb.  Try as he might, Private Thigpen just couldn’t climb the rope.  He was weak in the upper body and had not sufficiently practiced the majority-legs “inchworm” technique.  Faith wasn’t particularly concerned about this.  In fact, most of the young private that came to the company couldn’t do it, because it’s not something that a lot of people do prior to joining the Army.  Faith certainly never did.  

That sentiment didn’t save Thigpen from getting cajoled by his platoon mates, though. “Thigpen, you suck. Even that girl can climb a rope, and you can’t.” Faith didn’t intervene. Sometimes negative peer pressure worked wonders on someone’s motivation.

After the rope climb, the platoon moved across the street to the outdoor basketball court for the game. The court was set up with six hoops, and during warm weather it was usually jam packed with Soldiers and family members. With today’s wind and bitter cold, however, it was deserted. The young Soldiers in 5th Platoon had been running their mouths for weeks about how they could take the “old men” in a full court game. The original intent was for the four youngest Soldiers in the platoon were going to play the four oldest. The young players were all quite good. Faith and Ellery were also good players, but the other two oldest members of the platoon, Staff Sergeant Spencer and Staff Sergeant Watkins, were mediocre at best. And playing full court gave the younger men, who benefitted from greater stamina, more of an advantage.

At 22 years old, Lilith was shocked that she made the cut for the “old people team.”  But the Infantry was largely a young man’s game.  The Young Bucks, as they called themselves, were 21 and younger.  Faith was in his mid-20s, and Sergeants Spence and Miller were in their early thirties, and Ellery was, of course, the oldest at 37.  The average age in the platoon was 23, and it was only that high because Ellery was an outlier.

Faith insisted on letting Lilith play, but the Young Bucks were reluctant.  First of all, they didn’t want to play against a girl.  Especially the LT’s girlfriend.  If something happened to her, the LT might get mad at them.  They also didn’t want to take on a fifth player, because the only other person in the platoon under 22 was Private Thigpen.  And Thigpen, of course, was going to be a liability.

“Look, my girlfriend came all the way up from Georgia and I don’t want her sitting around getting cold why I school you in basketball,” Faith explained to the other team.   “Besides, she’s just a girl.  You all aren’t afraid to play against a girl, are you?”  That proved to be a winning argument.  The Young Bucks decided that the liability of Thigpen was offset by the Old Fogeys having a girl on their team.  So now the match was set.

Now there were two things that Faith didn’t mention to his troops about Lilith.  The first was that she was gymnast in her younger days.   The other was that she was on a competitive intramural basketball team back at school.  If she wasn’t so focused on her studies, she probably could have made the women’s team.  Faith already knew that she was going to have no problems doing a rope climb, and she was probably going to put on a clinic on the basketball court.

The two teams sized each other up.  Faith was guarded by a young troop with quick feet and fast hands.  Faith found him almost impossible to guard.  So in the time-honored tradition of old men everywhere, he started fouling the shit out of his opponent.  It wasn’t anything flagrant or malicious, just a little hand check here, a little shirt grab there, a little hip check during a rebound.  It might have gotten called in a college game, but it wasn’t going to get called out in street ball.  Seeing her as the least threat, Thigpen was assigned to guard Lilith.  This was a bad mismatch, and the first time she had the ball, she did a ball fake that caused him to leave his feet, and she then drove in for an easy basket.  The Young Bucks won the first game, but it was best out of three games to 11 baskets.  The Old Fogeys eked out a win in the second game, sending things to a third and final game.

Thigpen quickly established himself as the weak link on the Young Bucks team, and the Old Fogeys exploited it mercilessly. The Young Bucks tried switching from a man on man defense to a zone, but it didn’t help. In the last game, the Fogeys began to pull ahead.

Faith had expected that the rest of the platoon to hold their own game on the other court, but the Young Bucks vs. Old Fogeys was so entertaining that they stood on the sidelines and watched… and cheered, heckled, and/or coached the players.  Despite his best efforts, the man Faith was assigned to guard was the highest-scoring player on either team.  He was just too good.  The problem was, his supporting cast wasn’t giving him much help.  The Fogeys had several scorers.  Faith wasn’t sure how many she put up, but Lilith had found her stride in the game and was scoring pretty regularly.

Thigpen lurched to catch up, and launching himself from the ground, swatted full force at the ball.

She switched hands mid-air in order to make the shot, which caused Thigpen’s hand to miss the ball entirely… and land squarely in Lilith’s face.  Stunned, she fell on the ground.  Blood immediately erupted from her nose.  She rolled onto her side, using her shirt to try to stem the flow.

This, of course, brought the game to a screeching halt. Specialist Stringer, who was standing near the goal when this happened, was furious. “You did that on purpose!” he screamed at Thigpen. Faith wasn’t so sure. From his standpoint, it looked like a simple, if painful, foul. Things like this were going to happen when you played with Joe…

Faith ran to Lilith’s side and kneed down beside her.  “I’m OK… I’m OK… ,” she kept saying, although it was clear she wasn’t.  She kept the top of her t-shirt pressed against her face and maneuvered first into a sitting position and then, with some of the other players’ help, to her feet.  Her nose was bloody, her eyes were puffy, and she was crying.  It wasn’t heaving sobs, but the tears were there.  Faith got it.  The cold weather made skin more sensitive, and catching a hard foul in the face like that would make anyone tear up.  Once she was fully on her feet, the platoon medic gave her face a quick look.

“Might be broken,” he offered unhelpfully.  “She needs to get it checked out.  She’s definitely going to have two black eyes,” was his prognosis. “Sir, you should take her over to the TMC and see Doc Stone, he’ll check her out and get her fixed up.”

“Thigpen, get your ass over here,” Faith heard Corporal Laser say as he pulled away to take Lilith to the TMC. “You made the LT’s girlfriend cry…”

1) Was Faith out of line in allowing his girlfriend to participate in platoon activities? What should his reaction have been to her catching that hard foul?

2)  Do you think Thigpen hit Lilith on purpose?


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 9, 2020)

Private Thigpen about to get fucked the hell up.

1)  No she should not have been playing.  This is the LT's first real fuckup; she had not business being in that situation and the only reason he let it happen is because he enjoyed the ego stroke of his smoke-show girlfriend hanging out with his Soldiers.  Ridiculously poor judgement.

2). Thigpen is a fuckup, but he didn't try to hit her.  He's obviously got no reflexes or athletic ability and she deeked him out.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  I hope you publish the part where the Sgt. Major has Faith's ass for this.


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## DA SWO (Apr 9, 2020)

1. Yes
2. No


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 9, 2020)

1) Bad idea. Spectating is fine. 
2) Having had someone who attempted to be vindictive towards MC for accidentally dropping a manhole cover, anything's possible. I wouldn't assume it out the gate, it's been pretty well proven that this dude's a sloth in all forms of manner.


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## racing_kitty (Apr 10, 2020)

It was after duty, so no, I don’t believe he was out of line letting the girlfriend play. It’s not college or pro ball, it’s playground ball after they’d concluded business for the day. Just because it’s not out of line doesn’t make it smart. 

I don’t believe that Thigpen did it on purpose; that’s just how blocked shots roll. My parents had to replace a few pairs of glasses thanks to blocked shots when I was playing, and what happened with Lilith and Thigpen doesn’t deviate from my experiences with unintentional injury.

Having said that, it’s my opinion that Faith handles it well. Check on her, because there’s blood and she’s lacrimating despite her best efforts not to, and get her patched up for sure. But he should’ve made it clear that it was an accident, and no recriminations against Thigpen would be tolerated.


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## x SF med (Apr 10, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> It was after duty, so no, I don’t believe he was out of line letting the girlfriend play. It’s not college or pro ball, it’s playground ball after they’d concluded business for the day. Just because it’s not out of line doesn’t make it smart.
> 
> I don’t believe that Thigpen did it on purpose; that’s just how blocked shots roll. My parents had to replace a few pairs of glasses thanks to blocked shots when I was playing, and what happened with Lilith and Thigpen doesn’t deviate from my experiences with unintentional injury.
> 
> Having said that, it’s my opinion that Faith handles it well. Check on her, because there’s blood and she’s lacrimating despite her best efforts not to, and get her patched up for sure. But he should’ve made it clear that it was an accident, and no recriminations against Thigpen would be tolerated.



^^^What Sister Mary Hellfire said.


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## medicchick (Apr 10, 2020)

She should never have been forced onto the guys playing. They said no but rank was pulled and so she played. It may have been after formation and not formal pt (although she appeared to have butted into that on the ropes) but it was a platoon event not a family event.

As for Thigpen, who knows since the guy ain't right in the head and she showed him up on the ropes.


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## 0699 (Apr 10, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> *It was after duty*, so no, I don’t believe he was out of line letting the girlfriend play. It’s not college or pro ball, it’s playground ball after they’d concluded business for the day. Just because it’s not out of line doesn’t make it smart.


Was it?  It sounds like it was a mandatory platoon event.  Maybe I'm just reading it that way.

I think Faith should have kept his GF away from unit PT.  23 years, I never felt the need or desire to take my GF/wife to any unit function except "family events".  Hell, my wife didn't even call me at work unless it was an emergency.


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 10, 2020)

And thus, a new safety brief was formed... much to the chagrin of grunts everywhere.


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## Steve1839 (Apr 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> And thus, a new safety brief was formed... much to the chagrin of grunts everywhere.


Apparently, she was not wearing a PT belt or this would have never happened...


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 10, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Apparently, she was not wearing a PT belt or this would have never happened...


Yep... fact is definitely stranger than fiction here. I also feel a joke about the lack of SHARP and EO training could also be warranted.


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## Kaldak (Apr 10, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> It was after duty, so no, I don’t believe he was out of line letting the girlfriend play. It’s not college or pro ball, it’s playground ball after they’d concluded business for the day. Just because it’s not out of line doesn’t make it smart.
> 
> I don’t believe that Thigpen did it on purpose; that’s just how blocked shots roll. My parents had to replace a few pairs of glasses thanks to blocked shots when I was playing, and what happened with Lilith and Thigpen doesn’t deviate from my experiences with unintentional injury.
> 
> Having said that, it’s my opinion that Faith handles it well. Check on her, because there’s blood and she’s lacrimating despite her best efforts not to, and get her patched up for sure. But he should’ve made it clear that it was an accident, and no recriminations against Thigpen would be tolerated.



I'm with EOD on this.

Also, with Thigpen being such a screw up, if he meant to do it on purpose, he would have missed.


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## DasBoot (Apr 10, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Faith called Lilith right before final formation, and Lilith pulled up just as the formation was ending.  She was wearing sneakers, sweatpants, a larger “MACON UNIVERSITY” sweatshirt, a red knit had and black gloves as insulation against the cold.  The members of 5th platoon wore their winter PT uniform of gray sweats, black leather gloves, a black watch cap, and a reflective PT belt.
> 
> After the formation broke up, 5th Platoon drifted over to the PT pit on the far side of the parking lot, and Lilith joined them there. The pit contained a set of pullup bars, a situp area, and a large contraption made of telephone poles, from which two 30’ ropes dangled. After the first and last formations of the day, the platoon adjourned to the pit for pullups and a rope climb. The 101st “Airborne” Division was actually an Air Assault unit, and a significant portion of Air Assault School involved climbing a rope. Faith never quite got that, since in an actual air assault you’re sliding down the rope not climbing up it… but whatever. Practicing the rope climbs helped the platoon’s new arrivals prepare for the course.
> 
> ...


1. Yeah. That was dumb. You need to keep family at “arms length” from work- non-dependant significant others aka girlfriends, even further away.
2. No he’s just retarded. There is a slight chance he was so embarrassed he panicked and did it. Regardless he’s doomed.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 10, 2020)

I can see how forcing the guys to allow the LT's girlfriend to play could come across as a dick move.  That's not how it happened IRL.  I may change that part in the final writeup.

The game is after hours. I envisioned it as a good-natured grudge match within the platoon. In the 101st back in the day, we weren't allowed to do team sports during PT hours, and anyone playing ball outside during the duty day was asking to get jacked by somebody's CSM.

I was in charge of the same platoon for a long time. It might have been over 2 years. I dated my now-wife during that entire time period. She would come up to school to visit every once in a while, and over time she got to know some of the members of the platoon, like my PSG and the squad leaders. Sometimes she'd bring us cookies or whatever. I don't remember the exact circumstances but she did do the rope climb with us at least once (albeit not with the "one hand on each rope" technique), and she did play basketball with us once.

One winter when we were on "white cycle" (the time when your unit is on chogie-boy taskings for post) we would do two-a-day PT sessions around our various taskings.  We'd PT our ass off in the morning and usually do some kind of team sport in the afternoons.  I preferred ultimate football but my platoon was into basketball so that's mostly what we did.  This particular game, we shot for teams as usual, and my girlfriend was on the opposite team from me.  We played outdoors, and it was cold.  She was a good player, but she was about a buck-o'-five and playing against infantrymen who were not only bigger and more aggressive, but who also didn't really feel bound by any of the game's rules.  So it made for an interesting game.  She did get hit in the face, but it was from a member of her team who went up for a shot and then tried to dish to her at the least second.  She didn't get her hands up fast enough and it caught her full in the face.  She did tear up, which was totally understandable given the circumstances.  She sat out a minute or two and then came back into the game.  The Soldier that passed to her did teased by some of the other troops about "making the LT's girlfriend cry."  ;)


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## 0699 (Apr 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> And thus, *a new safety brief was formed*... much to the chagrin of grunts everywhere.


Every spring, our church hosts a spring weekend men's retreat in the mountains west of here.  On Saturday afternoon, we are able to use any of the fun events at the camp; archery, driving range, zip line, etc.  Last year, on the zip line, I decided to go down inverted.  Perfectly safe, and when I take interns at work out rappelling I have them go inverted just to show them how safe they are in their harness.  So at the zip line I went inverted as soon as I stepped off the tower and turned upright before I got to the landing zone.  I then had the following conversation with the camp staff member there:

Staff: "Sir, please don't go upside down any more."
Me: "Sorry, I didn't hear in the safety brief that we couldn't."
Staff: "It wasn't sir, but it will be now."


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 10, 2020)

0699 said:


> Every spring, our church hosts a spring weekend men's retreat in the mountains west of here.  On Saturday afternoon, we are able to use any of the fun events at the camp; archery, driving range, zip line, etc.  Last year, on the zip line, I decided to go down inverted.  Perfectly safe, and when I take interns at work out rappelling I have them go inverted just to show them how safe they are in their harness.  So at the zip line I went inverted as soon as I stepped off the tower and turned upright before I got to the landing zone.  I then had the following conversation with the camp staff member there:
> 
> Staff: "Sir, please don't go upside down any more."
> Me: "Sorry, I didn't hear in the safety brief that we couldn't."
> Staff: "It wasn't sir, but it will be now."



You mean they go down Australian?  ( We did this at Saint-Cyr once, and they called it Australian, gosh that tower was huge)



Marauder06 said:


> One winter when we were on "white cycle" (the time when your unit is on chogie-boy taskings for post) we would do two-a-day PT sessions around our various taskings.  We'd PT our ass off in the morning and usually do some kind of team sport in the afternoons.  I preferred *ultimate football* but my platoon was into basketball so that's mostly what we did.  This particular game, we shot for teams as usual, and my girlfriend was on the opposite team from me.  We played outdoors, and it was cold.  She was a good player, but she was about a buck-o'-five and playing against infantrymen who were not only bigger and more aggressive, but who also didn't really feel bound by any of the game's rules.  So it made for an interesting game.  She did get hit in the face, but it was from a member of her team who went up for a shot and then tried to dish to her at the least second.  She didn't get her hands up fast enough and it caught her full in the face.  She did tear up, which was totally understandable given the circumstances.  She sat out a minute or two and then came back into the game.  The Soldier that passed to her did teased by some of the other troops about "making the LT's girlfriend cry."  ;)



Sir, you know there's an amazing sport called Rugby you could play?  Much better!

My last SCO before I went to the Plans section was IN LOVE with Ultimate Football.  As you could imagine, his team always won.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 11, 2020)

Doc Stone was the physician’s assistant on duty in the TMC when Faith arrived with Lilith.  He was a prior-service Special Forces medic before he went the officer route and became a PA.  He was well-loved within the battalion because of his sense of humor and his well-known love of taking care of the troops.  Because she was bleeding, Lilith was seen right away.  Doc Stone checked her injury, and gave welcome news.

“Well, it’s not broken, but it’s likely you’re going to experience some swelling, and probably you’re going to have one or two black eyes,” he explained. “Team sports,” he sighed, “is the highest casualty-producing weapon in the entire military.” He suggested that she rest, drink water, ice the crap out of her injury, and take some Motrin for the pain and swelling.

For her part, Lilith took it like a pro.  Injuries are common in contact sports, especially when you play with Joe.  This wasn’t the first time she got hurt playing basketball; she had her jaw broken in high school.  She wasn’t upset, and she definitely wasn’t angry at Thigpen.  But she was embarrassed that she cried in front of the platoon.  “Just reinforces negative stereotypes of women,” she explained.  Faith didn’t think so.  In that cold, getting hit in the face as hard as Lilith had, Faith thought he’d probably rolling around on the ground, bawling like a baby.  Either that, or that kind of foul—intentional or not—would be the start of an on-court fight.  He thought Lilith handled that MUCH better than he would have.

 For Lilith and Faith the weekend ended better than it started, and when Lilith left on Sunday night to go back to school, she had some minor swelling in her nose, and just a hint of bruising under each eye.  “Easily concealed with makeup,” she said reassuringly.

The next Monday immediately after PT formation, Private Thigpen approached LT Faith.  “Sir, can I talk to you for a minute?” he looked upset.

“Sure Private, what’s on your mind?” is what Faith said, but in his mind he was thinking, “Oh God, what now?”

“Sir, I’m really sorry about what I did to Miss Lilith.  I didn’t mean to hit her,” he said earnestly.

Wait, that was it?  “Yeah, ok, it’s no problem, Thigpen.  It’s part of the game.  She wasn’t even really hurt.  It was mostly the cold weather.”

Thigpen looked somewhat relieved.

“Well, OK, but do you think I could call her, just to make sure she’s ok?”

“God—no,” said Faith immediately.  He knew that this was just another example of Thigpen’s socially awkward nature and nothing nefarious.  “Um, I mean, she called me last night when she got back to school and she told me to let everyone know that she’s totally fine, and she appreciated being allowed to PT with the platoon” Faith explained.  This statement also had the benefit of being true.

Thigpen still looked a little unsure.  “Roger sir, it’s just that I can’t do anything…”

“Thigpen!!” came a shout.  Faith noticed Corporal Laser jogging up.  “Oh, sorry sir,” he said, saluting Faith, “I didn’t know it was you.”

“No problem Corporal, Private Thigpen and I were just finishing up.”

“OK Thigpen, you know the drill, let’s hit those ropes,” Laser instructed.

Thigpen nodded, exchanges salutes with Lieutenant Faith, and then jogged unenthusiastically towards the rope pit.  

“He’s not a bad guy,” Faith thought as Thigpen jogged away, “he’s just a bad Soldier.  I can work with that.”

-----
OK—you’re LT Faith in this story.  Individual and crew-level collective training is an NCO responsibility, but collective training and everything that happens or fails to happen in your platoon is your responsibility.  What is your plan for Thigpen, knowing what you know at this point in the story?


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 11, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Doc Stone was the physician’s assistant on duty in the TMC when Faith arrived with Lilith.  He was a prior-service Special Forces medic before he went the officer route and became a PA.  He was well-loved within the battalion because of his sense of humor and his well-known love of taking care of the troops.  Because she was bleeding, Lilith was seen right away.  Doc Stone checked her injury, and gave welcome news.
> 
> “Well, it’s not broken, but it’s likely you’re going to experience some swelling, and probably you’re going to have one or two black eyes,” he explained. “Team sports,” he sighed, “is the highest casualty-producing weapon in the entire military.” He suggested that she rest, drink water, ice the crap out of her injury, and take some Motrin for the pain and swelling.
> 
> ...



Seems Corporal Laser is doing his job pretty well taking care of Thigpen. 

In regards to his GF, yeah you're not going to call her and apologize, especially since she's good to go.  If the line was broken, don't break it anymore.

This takes me back a bit though.  We had a retired SF Major who was a contractor assigned to our ROTC battalion and taught MS1s.  I could just see his wife doing the same thing.  She played Division 1 Women's Basketball at Chuck South wayyyy back in the day.   She'd play with the faculty at lunch games and tear it up beyond the three point line.


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## R.Caerbannog (Apr 12, 2020)

0699 said:


> Every spring, our church hosts a spring weekend men's retreat in the mountains west of here.  On Saturday afternoon, we are able to use any of the fun events at the camp; archery, driving range, zip line, etc.  Last year, on the zip line, I decided to go down inverted.  Perfectly safe, and when I take interns at work out rappelling I have them go inverted just to show them how safe they are in their harness.  So at the zip line I went inverted as soon as I stepped off the tower and turned upright before I got to the landing zone.  I then had the following conversation with the camp staff member there:
> 
> Staff: "Sir, please don't go upside down any more."
> Me: "Sorry, I didn't hear in the safety brief that we couldn't."
> Staff: "It wasn't sir, but it will be now."


That's no fun. Based on experience, some people just live to take the joy outta everything.


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## Cookie_ (Apr 12, 2020)

I had to go back through the case study to find out how long Thigpen has actually been at the unit. 
When Faith first saw Thigpen being hazed, it seems Thigpen was still basically a FNG



Marauder06 said:


> "Private Pigpen here,” said the probable-NCO, “won’t take a shower.  Hasn’t taken a shower once in the month he has been here.



Now, I'm not sure exactly how much time has passed since that incident, but I'd still be willing to work with Thigpen.

Thigpen managed to pass basic and AIT, probably because he's a good follower; his problem is he hasn't become a self-starter yet. 
That's basically every single private I get now that I'm in the guard. It can take a few months to drill that attitude into them.

Faith doesn't really need to do anything. Thigpen is in a good spot, with the whole NCO chain supporting his improvement. 
Give Thigpen a chance to be integrated into the team, and give him some simple but important tasks in which he can succeed and build his confidence.
Something as simple as CPL Laser going "Hey Thigpen, Lt need us to get the data plate information off our vehicles. Let me help you with the first few, then you do the rest."


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## Marauder06 (Apr 12, 2020)

That afternoon, LT Faint received a summons from the Battalion XO via email:  “My office, 1300.”  That’s all it said.  For a lieutenant in 1/327, being called to the XO’s office was like being called to an office meeting with Darth Vader—someone was going to get Force-choked… hopefully, only figuratively.   Faith was apprehensive, but he noted that there were a number of other lieutenants on the “To” line, so either all of them were getting fired, or none of them were.

Faith dutifully reported to the staff duty officer at the appointed time, and he and the other lieutenants were ushered into the XO’s office.  The XO sat at his desk and didn’t even bother to look up.

“Gentlemen,” he said, “Like 99.9% of your peers, you were selected for First Lieutenant.  The ceremony is tomorrow at noon.  Pick someone to pin your new rank.  Dismissed.”

Well, that was unexpected.

Unlike most other officer promotion boards, promotions to first lieutenant was handled at the battalion level, and almost automatic at 18 months of service unless there was some kind of major failure or misconduct.  Faith knew that it was getting close to his 18-monht mark but didn’t know it was already here.

Near-100%-promotion-rate or not, Faith was elated that he would soon replace his gold Second Lieutenant bar with a silver First Lieutenant one.  He was somewhat irked about the short notice; his parents weren’t that far away but they couldn’t drop everything and drive up here with one day’s notice.  The same was true of his girlfriend, who was still in school six hours away.  Lilith couldn’t come up in the middle of the week for something like this.  He decided to not even tell her, or his parents, that the promotion was happening.  That way no one would feel compelled to go out of their way to make it.

The obvious choice to do his promotion was, of course, Sergeant Ellery. While Faith wasn’t exactly excited about being on the receiving end of one of Ellery’s shoulder-sundering blood pinnings, there was no one in the unit that contributed more to his success, or for whom he had more respect, than Sergeant Ellery. For his part, Ellery seemed pleased that Faith asked him to do the honors.

The next afternoon, a row of young lieutenants stood at attention in front of a horseshoe formation of all of the officers in the battalion. The battalion commander said a few nice words about them as a group (he didn’t know any of them well enough to say anything about them individually), and then he called for the Battalion Adjutant to “publish the orders.” The promotees were lined up tallest to shortest, and Faith, being the tallest officer in the battalion, was first in line. As the Adjutant read the orders, the “pinners” came forward out of the crowd. Like Faith, most of the other lieutenants had their platoon sergeants do the honors. One LT asked his company commander, one had a Command Sergeant Major (Faith later found out that it was his father), and yet another LT had a fellow lieutenant promote him. Faith thought that was strange, but then again Bravo Company was full of weirdos.

“You ready, sir?” Ellery asked. Faith nodded.

Before the promotion ceremony, Sergeant Ellery had cut away most of the threads holding Faith’s rank on, to make it easier to remove. When it was time, Ellery grabbed the cloth rank, ripped it off with one smooth flourish, and tossed it backwards over his shoulder. From the corner of his eye, Faith noticed others who hadn’t done the same preparation struggling to remove their promotees’ rank. One individual had to resort to pulling out his knife to cut the old rank away. “Rookies,” Faith thought with a smile.

Ellery removed a bright silver First Lieutenant bar from his pocket and poked the pins through the Faith’s collar. This insignia was for ceremonial purposes only, after the ceremony it would be replaced by a black “subdued” version of the rank. After lining up the rank in its proper spot, Ellery smoothed out Faith’s collar. The left side still featured sew-on branch insignia, but the right collar had pin-on rank, the sharp points uncovered by their protective clips. Faith knew what came next.

“You ready, sir?” Ellery asked again.

“Do it,” Faith ordered.

Ellery brought his hands down onto both sides of Faith’s collar with a thunderous CLAP that brought a collective “OOOOOOHHHH!” from the crowd and caused Faith to take a step back. But Faith felt… nothing. He realized that Ellery had cupped his hands so that it made a very loud noise, but the palm of his hands never actually made contact with the rank insignia. At that moment, Faith understood what Ellery told him that day after Wilson’s promotion, about never having done a blood pinning. By making such a big production of seeming to do a blood pinning, he pre-empted everyone else who would legitimately do a blood pin, sparing Faith (and everyone else that Ellery promoted) from potential injury, and everyone else from a potential hazing charge. Faith wasn’t sure what he was more in awe of, the fact that Ellery did this, or that literally everyone Ellery had ever promoted kept their mouth shut about it.

A more or less similar scene unfolded down the line, but Faith could tell from the reactions of the other promotees that no one else used Ellery’s technique. Ellery placed the covers on Faith’s rank pins, took a step back, came to attention and rendered a sharp salute. “Congratulations, First Lieutenant Faith,” he said.

The battalion commander was first in line, followed by the sergeant major and then the XO. There was no formal line, just kind of a crowd of people standing around, each waiting to congratulate the new lieutenants in their own way. When the XO got to Faith, he started to remove the pins from Faith’s collar insignia to issue his own blood pinning. “You don’t need to do that sir, I already got him good,” said Sergeant Ellery. Faith wasn’t sure how the XO was going to react to that. But the XO and Sergeant Ellery had a long history of working together.

The XO paused and looked at Ellery for as second.  “Yeah, you sure did,” he said with a laugh.  He put the pins back on Faith’s rank, shook his hand, and moved down the line.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 13, 2020)

The gathering on the parade field was for officers and senior NCOs only, but the rest of Faith’s platoon was waiting in the platoon office when Ellery and Faith returned.  

“CONGRATULATIONS!!!” They shouted when Faith opened the door and turned on the lights. Faith was startled, but Ellery appeared to know it was coming.

“Damn, how’d all of you even fit in here?” Faith asked as 5th Platoon spilled out of the office and into the hallway to shake hands with their newly-promoted platoon leader. Corporal Laser came forward with something in his hands. “This is for you, sir, from all of us,” he exclaimed proudly. It was a black present bag, with gold tissue paper poking out of the top.

Faith reached into the bag and pulled out a large coffee mug emblazoned with the crest of the 327 Infantry Regiment, and Faith’s name and rank.

*1LT SCOTT FAITH
5th PLATOON, 1/327
ABOVE THE REST*

Faith was genuinely touched. He had seen this mugs for sale at the local PX and knew they weren’t cheap. He also know that it took a couple of days to get the engraving work done. So that meant…

“Wait… you knew I was going to get promoted, before I did?” he asked incredulously.

“Spec-4 Mafia, for the win!” someone shouted. Faith laughed. The E4s (Specialists) really did have their network.

“Don’t let them kid you, sir,” Sergeant Ellery explained. “The S1 released the promotion lists to the company a couple of days ago. The Spec-4 Mafia’s got nothing on the chain of command.”

“Damn, the LT’s been here a total of like two months, and is already getting promoted!” Sergeant Spencer exclaimed.

 Had it only been two months since he came to Delta Company?  It seemed like ages…

“I spent a lot of time at Benning before I got here,” Faith explained.

“Doing what?”

“Not graduating from Ranger School,” Faith stated matter-of-factly.

“Ah, that shit’s over-rated anyway,” said Sergeant Spencer.  Easy for him to say, he already had his tab.

“This is really nice guys, thanks,” Faith said.  And it was.  It was a beautiful mug, but what he appreciated it more for was the sentiment it represented.   His guys didn’t have to do this for him.  This was a sign of acceptance, the kind of affirmation that every young lieutenant sought.   Faith set his new mug down on the corner of his desk.  He couldn’t wait to drink coffee out of it at tomorrow’s company training meeting.

“We all signed the bottom, sir, so you won’t forget who gave it to you,” Corporal Laser said proudly.

“I didn’t sign it,” Thigpen stated, sounding disappointed.

“Do you even know how to sign your name, Pigpen?” Specialist Spencer teased.

“Well that’s easily fixed,” said Faith, pulling a black Sharpie permanent marker from his desk drawer and handed it, and the mug, to Private Thigpen.

“Oh shit!” Sergeant Spencer exclaimed, looking down at his watch. “Formation in three minutes! OK folks, party’s over.” As the platoon began exiting the office, Thigpen hurriedly scrawled his name on the bottom of the mug and set it down on the edge of the table.

Unfortunately, in his haste he placed it too close to the edge of the table and when he let go of it, it toppled to the floor. It hit the ground with a *clank!* and a large chip flew off near the opening.

“Oh great, you broke it you idiot,” said a clearly-angry Specialist Spencer to a mortified-looking Private Thigpen. Corporal Laser looked at the broken mug, and then back at Thigpen. Faith knew he was about to say something, probably something not very nice at all.

“Nah, a chipped mug makes it look like I’ve had it for a while, and I’m not some brand-new rookie,” Faith said, picking it up. “Like I didn’t literally just get promoted today. It’s no big deal, let’s roll to formation.”

That seemed to mollify the crowd.

“Why’d you have to break the man’s shit, Pigpen?” Faith heard one of his Soldiers say as the group exited the building.

“Damn, Thigpen, you really can’t do anything right, can you?” said another.

 The damage to the mug was much worse that Faith let on.  It was actually cracked from top to bottom on the back side, near the handle.  It was easily fixed with a hot glue gun, but it probably wouldn’t be suitable for drinking anything out of, ever.  Faith sighed, scooping up a handful of pens and markers off of his desk and dropping them into the mug.  If he couldn’t drink out of it, it could at least help him organize his desk.  “It was nice while it lasted,” he said as he and Ellery grabbed their uniform hats and joined the platoon at the end of day formation.    

-----
What is the coolest military-related trinket you received?  Alternately, what's the coolest thing you've seen given as a military memento?


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

The wooden canoe paddle I got when I left the 1AD Plans Section. With the Ben Hurr Quote: "We keep you alive to serve the ship, so row well and live."  

For anyone who ever works in the G5 anywhere, it is a crazy place, you plane exercise after exercise after exercise.  You stay in the office burning a lot of midnight oil.

We gave one our 1st Sergeants a Kettlebell, he was really into Crossfit.  It looked like a Spartan Helmet.  Interestingly I was looking to buy some Kettlebells the other day and sadly the company went out of business.  It was called Demon Bells.


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## x SF med (Apr 13, 2020)

1.  A MoH coin (the traditionally inscribed one) from CSM Jon Caviaini, who was also the man who gave me my first 10SFG(A) coin when I got to Group.
2. An inscribed coin from the PJs at Mildenhall.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 14, 2020)

At the end of day formation that evening, Faith noticed the battalion commander and command sergeant major walking up just before Delta’s first sergeant called the company to attention.  This was a rarity; most of the time no one ever saw the battalion commander or the CSM, unless someone was in trouble.

But not this time. Today, Delta’s commander explained, the battalion commander and CSM were coming to hand out awards.

“Attention to orders!” Captain Jenkins commanded. “The following individuals will fall out and report for awards formation.”

“Specialist Avery!”

Good, Faith thought. Avery was in Fourth Platoon, but was a solid troop. He was probably receiving an “impact” award for something meritorious.

“Sergeant Collins!” Collins was transferring duty stations soon, so Faith reckoned this was probably his permanent change of station (PCS) award.

"First Lieutenant Faith!”

“What the fuck?” Faith whispered.  He didn’t mean to say it out loud, but it slipped out.  But seriously, what in the world would he possibly be getting an award for?  He’d been in the unit for two months.   He heard a couple of members of his platoon chuckle as he hurried forward to join the other men receiving awards.  Fortunately, he was far enough in the back that none of the leaders in the front heard his exclamation of surprise.

In total, there were seven men receiving awards that day, and they formed a line, organized alphabetically, in front of the company formation.  The battalion commander said some nice words, and he and the Command Sergeant Major went through the line to shake each man’s hand, hand him a green vinyl folder, and pin a shiny medal on their chests.  Sergeant Collins received an Army Commendation Medal, and the rest received the Army Achievement Medal, which was one level down.  

After the awards were presented, the awardees rejoined their platoons and the battalion commander turned the formation back over to Delta’s commander, who dismissed the company.

“5th Platoon NCOs: my office,” Sergeant Ellery instructed. “We’ve got a Soldier issue we need to hash out. First Sergeant wants to see me in his office first.” Although he wasn’t specifically instructed to do so, Faith walked back to the office as well. He had no intention of involving himself in “NCO business,” but as platoon leader, he needed to keep himself informed.

On the walk back to his office, Faith was burning with curiosity about why he received an award. He had been in the platoon a grand total of like two months. All he had done during that entire time was PT, twenty or thirty “white cycle” burial details, and his level best to stay out of trouble. Was it possible they simply made a mistake?

Faith sat down at his desk and opened the green folder that the battalion commander presented with his award. In it was his award citation, which explained why he was receiving the award.

“I got an Army medal for being good at burial detail?” he said in disbelief as he read the document.

“I’m pretty sure it says ‘for exceptionally meritorious service as Final Honors Officer in Charge,’” Staff Sergeant Spencer said smugly. Faith looked at the citation.

“Actually, that’s exactly what it says,” Faith stated. “Now how did you know that?”

“Because he’s the one who put you in for it,” Corporal Laser explained. “I mean, we can’t be doing Final Honors for 101st veterans, and our LT doesn’t even have a full row of ribbons on his Class A uniform…”

As a new lieutenant with no prior enlisted service, Faith had only earned the National Defense Service Medal and the Army Service Ribbon, both of which were more or less “participation trophies” for everyone in the Army. But now he had something he actually earned. And yes, now he had one full row of ribbons for his Dress Green uniform.

“Wow, thank you, that’s really cool,” Faith said, and he meant it. “I didn’t know a sergeant could put an officer in for an award, I thought they had to come from… commanders or whatever.”

“Only commanders can approve them, but anyone can put anyone in for an award,” Spencer explained.  “And don’t get excited, it’s just an AAM.”

“Yeah, Sergeant Ellery has like 13 of them,” Corporal Laser added.  Faith found out later that it was actually 15.

“An AAM is basically a positive counseling statement from the battalion commander,” Spencer continued, “in the same way that a summarized Article 15 is like a negative counseling statement.  Except a medal is more… permanent.”

“OK,” Faith said, “but… why?”

“Why the medal? You remember that burial detail we did a month or so ago, when you had to step in after the funeral home dorked up the dead guy’s uniform?

Faith vaguely remembered that. They actually done quite a few burials in the last two months, and the funeral home almost always dorked up the placement of the ribbons and medals. They’d have to be more specific.

“Well, I guess so.”

“…and how that wasn’t even supposed to be your detail, Third Platoon was supposed to do it, but you stepped up when their platoon sergeant had a family emergency and couldn’t make it?”

“Yes.”

“You remember how the dead guy’s adult children were estranged from each other and almost got into a fight in the funeral parlor, and you defused the situation and got them to actually be civil to each other?”

“Oh God, yes,” Faith said. What a shit-show that was.

“…and how at the cemetery there was a huge thunderstorm, and everyone got soaking wet, and the pallbearers almost fell into the grave, but you grabbed the coffin at the last second, but you got mud all over your uniform and it was ruined?”

“Well, it was just my pants that got ruined, but yeah…” Faith agreed.

“And do you remember that the old lady invited us to the reception after the funeral, with all of that great friend chicken, and one of her grandchildren asked questions about your uniform and you took off on of your crossed rifles and gave it to him?”

“Sure, but…”

“Well sir,” Spencer continued, finally getting to the point. “The widow wrote a very nice note about all of that to the Division Commander.”

“Wait, she did what?” Faith said, aghast. He really didn’t want to be on the Division Commander’s radar over muddy pants.

“Yep. In fact, I think her letter contained the exact words, ‘this lieutenant deserves a medal,’” Spencer added.

“Sometimes it pays to just be a good dude, sir,” Corporal Laser informed him.  Well, that was certainly true enough.

“Don’t get me wrong, I’m very grateful,” Faith explained, “I just don’t think that this is something that someone should get a medal for.”

“Look sir,” Spencer countered. “There are going to be plenty of times that you did something that you should have gotten recognized for, but won’t. So this kind of thing helps even it out a bit.”

“Yep; Corporal Laser confirmed, “The Army’s big green weenie is going to screw you over, time and again, so it’s best to just take the good when you can find it.”

“That makes sense,” Faith said, “I guess.”

“If you didn’t deserve it, it wouldn’t have made it past Sergeant Ellery to the First Sergeant, from the First Sergeant to the Commander, from the Commander to the Sergeant Major, and from the Sergeant Major to the BC.  All of those people thought you deserved this, so… there you go.”

The other NCOs in the room nodded in agreement.

At that moment, Sergeant Ellery returned to the office.  “OK, I just need Sergeant Spencer and Corporal Laser, the rest of you can go,” Ellery said, his tone all business.  “Sir, you’re going to want to hear this too.”  Whatever this was, it wasn’t going to be good.

The other NCOs departed, leaving only Ellery, Faith, Spencer and Laser. After the door shut, Sergeant Ellery explained why they were all there after hours.

“OK, you all know that Thigpen failed both his PT test and height/weight this morning, so he’s flagged. The commander told First Sergeant that he wants to administratively chapter Thigpen out of the Army. But he wants chain of command input first. If we think he’s trainable he can stay, but this, on top of everything else with Private Thigpen… well, the commander says he can have Thigpen chaptered out in like a week. He wants Lieutenant Faith to make a decision by tomorrow morning. So, recommendations for the PL?”

“DX his ass,” said Corporal Laser immediately, using military jargon for “direct exchange.” “The guy is bringing the whole platoon down.”

While this was true, Sergeant Spencer had a different point of view.

“This was literally the first PT test Thigpen took out of AIT,” he said. “Most of the privates we get are in pretty shitty shape physically, and it’s not uncommon for them to fail the first test at their unit. Thigpen did fail, but not by much. Two pushups, and ten seconds on the run. Same thing with weight. He’s only three pounds over. I think if we smoke the dog piss out of him twice a day, he could probably pass the PT test and make weight in like a month. Tops.”

“I tend to agree,” said Sergeant Ellery.  “Thigpen is not smart, and he’s never going to be a great Soldier, but with some tough NCO love he might be a decent one, one day.  What do you think, sir?”  Ellery inquired.

Faith took a moment to think about the situation.

“Thigpen is our guy. I think we have an obligation to explore every option and give him every opportunity to try to make it. Because this guy… he’s not going to make it on the outside.”

“Well, if he’s on the outside, that means he’s no longer our problem,” countered Corporal Laser. “As long as he’s here, I’m the one who has to babysit his dumb ass.”

“That’s why you’re making all of that extra corporal pay,” Ellery told him. This was an inside joke; while corporals were technically NCOs, it was a lateral promotion and corporals received the same pay they did when they were specialist. It was all of the responsibility of being an NCO, with none of the extra pay.

“Roger, Sarn’t,” Corporal Laser replied.  He wasn’t happy about Thigpen sticking around, but he wasn’t upset about it either.  He would do his job.  Thigpen would get better.

That matter settled, it was time to go home.  As he was leaving work, Faith exited the building behind two 5th Platoon Soldiers who didn’t know he was behind them. 

 “New promotion… shiny medal on his chest… hot girlfriend… the LT’s got it going on!” said the first Soldier enthusiastically.

“Yeah, I hope he doesn’t fuck it all up.”

“Me too,” Faith thought to himself, as he walked to his Jeep.

---
1)  This story is not far off from the real-life rationale behind the first AAM I received.  What is the most ridiculous thing you ever saw someone get an award for?  Alternately, what was something someone should have gotten an award for, but didn’t?

2)  So, should 5th Platoon take the opportunity to DX Private Thigpen, or should they continue to try to make him a better Soldier?


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

1) One of my Soldiers got an Army Commendation Medal for being a member of the Color Guard during BMCs Change of Command in 2013. 

2) He's flagged, not sure you can get him out inside of a week.  A month probably.  Depends on what is in his counseling packet.  Unless you're going to chapter him for failure to adapt.

If he's that close to passing a PT test, he could pass in two weeks and pass tape in the same amount of time.  Interestingly, I had to flag my senior scout for being fat almost immediately when I got to that platoon.  He barely passed the PT test.  And he had some blue chips with CO, and he didn't get flagged and somehow passed tape the next week.  He ended up being a pain in the ass and went psycho on a weekend pause during a major field exercise.


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## Steve1839 (Apr 14, 2020)

1) Many years ago, a bus driver for the 10th Group was awarded an Army Commendation Medal for driving teams from the isolation area to the airfield during a major exercise...he took us to the wrong side of the airfield and we had to walk about half a mile with parachute gear, rucksacks and rifles, but I guess he was a stud...also, in the book Soldier by Anthony Herbert, the author recalled a clerk being awarded a Bronze Star in Vietnam for keeping the paper work straight at a headquarters...
2) Not really sure how long Thigpen has been in the unit...if it's a month or two, I'm thinking SGT Spencer is right.  If it's been several months, then I'd have to see what sort of counseling followed him over from the other platoon...seems to me like Thigpen would have been one of McNamara's 100K in another time...


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## Andoni (Apr 14, 2020)

1) I honestly have no recollection. I cannot remember specifics of any award ceremony.

2)  I think 5th Platoon should continue to try to make him a better soldier a little longer, because everyone seems to agree Thigpen cares, and he's slow.

Since he's slow, to get with the program, he may need a longer period of intensive "overlearning" with two overlapping parts: the first is ingraining the task, and the second is overlearning, sustaining the ingrained tasks. It's a pain and a gamble. I would say try it.

They could add writing to everything else they are already doing.

Or if they don't want to read his essays, give him lists. Have him find the definition of each term or word and copy it. Or have him memorize terms and definitions and tell them.

Like,

"Personal Hygiene"
"Squalor"
"insist on"
"living in"
If Thigpen keeps failing, it seems like the Army isn't a good fit for him.

Edit: added the word "need"


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## Marauder06 (Apr 15, 2020)

OK.  About 8 or so posts left.  I think it's time I wrapped this up.


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## DA SWO (Apr 15, 2020)

1)  This story is not far off from the real-life rationale behind the first AAM I received.  What is the most ridiculous thing you ever saw someone get an award for?  Alternately, what was something someone should have gotten an award for, but didn’t?
ARCOM for supervising the NCO's who set the new CG's Office up.  The NCO's received AAM's.

2)  So, should 5th Platoon take the opportunity to DX Private Thigpen, or should they continue to try to make him a better Soldier?
[/QUOTE]
Give him 90 days to shape up or out.


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## Kraut783 (Apr 15, 2020)

AAM for organizing a banquet....not a large one, small no big deal one.....crazy


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## Kaldak (Apr 15, 2020)

Fellow student at OCS got an AAM for preforming recon undetected with his 4 man team. That was the entire point of the exercise. Best part, no cadre was with them, so nobody knows for sure if they even followed the exercise's rules.

Give Thigpen a month. If he isn't making the minimum by then, chapter him out. I'm not a fan of second chances for those not showing self motivation, but as a new PL I think you should show some extra effort helping him rather than simply taking the easy route off the bat.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 15, 2020)

Faith and Ellery decided that they would go to bat for Thigpen, so he was allowed to stay in the company.  But any further screw-ups, and Thigpen was gone.  Fair enough.

A few weeks went by, and LT Faith was starting to think that he was getting the hang of this “Infantry platoon leader” thing. He was getting stronger and fitter thanks to Sergeant Ellery’s relentless PT program, his platoon was leading the company in almost every measurable category—PT test scores, weapons qualifications, vehicle maintenance, TOW qualification tables—and morale was sky-high. Even Thigpen was getting better.

But it was easy for Thigpen to get “better” when the baseline was so low. Faith found Private Thigpen to be an interesting case, largely because it was hard to figure out what motivated him. He didn’t care at all about money, or rank, or prestige, or responsibility. The only thing that seemed to work with him was yelling at him, or to threaten some form of mild physical violence, after which he adjusted his level of effort accordingly. While he managed to get within standards—barely—on most things, he still caught a LOT of crap over his barracks room. Because of the personnel shortages in the company, Thigpen had his own room. But try as he might, he couldn’t keep it clean. And we’re not talking “West Point white glove inspection” clean, we’re talking “an average person wouldn’t be totally disgusted” standards. That was kind of gross.

What Thigpen really wanted, Faith discovered, was a friend. He had none. And it was easy to understand why, because Thigpen was just an unlikeable guy. While his hygiene habits had improved to the point that he wasn’t getting regularly jacked up by every NCO who happened by, he still gave off a distinct “Pigpen” vibe. He would do anything for attention and acceptance, and while the other members of 5th Platoon tolerated Thigpen, he was seen more like a retarded little brother than as a real friend by most of the platoon. The only one who he seemed to have any kind of meaningful relationship with was Specialist Stringer, whom Thigpen idolized and tried to (unsuccessfully) emulate. In his off hours, Thigpen hung out mainly with some other low-performing non-hackers in 2nd Platoon, which Faith thought was weird given the way that they had treated him previously. He also thought they were a bad influence, but what was he going to do, hang out with Thigpen himself?

Faith eventually learned that Thigpen had been home schooled by a single mother, and joined the Army with a GED and an ASVAB waiver. He was stunted physically, intellectually, and emotionally. He found it hard to make friends, and was absolutely terrified to talk to girls. He was mentally slow and emotionally unstable. Faith considered it a crime that he was let into the Army at all. But right now, the Army was all that Private Thigpen had.

A few weeks after pinning on First Lieutenant, Faith and a few of the other newly-minted 1LTs decided to go in together on a promotion party. As was the usual practice, they catered it through the post’s all-ranks club, the Stabajinski Club. The Stabajinski was named after a famous World War II war hero, but its name did not live up to its performance. It was a dump. The food was decent, but the ambiance was distinctly “Army ghetto.” It was dingy, dimly lit, and there were no private rooms, just a large bar, a bunch of tables and chairs, and a large central buffet area. The walls were adorned with a mishmash of beer signs and military paraphernalia, most of it 101st Airborne-related. The club was managed by Mr. Park, a no-nonsense Korean-American Vietnam War veteran who not only wouldn’t take anyone’s shit, but was also reputed to be some kind of tae kwon do expert.

As the all-ranks club, it was also the only club on post that didn’t check for military ID at the door, which meant that that it was a hangout for locals as well as troops. And although it was technically an all-ranks club, most of the NCOs and officers hung out at their own clubs, not this one. But because the place attracted young single men with money, it also attracted young women, not all of whom were of age, and some of whom were straight up prostitutes. The process of ensuring people ordering drinks were of age was, at best, sporadic. All in all, it was a volatile mix. The MPs referred to the club as the “Stab n Jab” because of the number of fights that broke out there.

In the Army, the expectation was to put one month’s pay difference between the former rank and the new rank towards the party. There was a noticeable pay bump in going from 2LT to 1LT, and on top of that, an additional longevity pay increase for going over two years. By pooling their money, the four lieutenants were able to put a considerable amount of money towards a group party. And of course being young, and in the Infantry, most of that money went towards alcohol.

The Stab n Jab was packed even more than usual on the day of the party.  Faith and the other lieutenants arrived early and were able to secure a corner of the club near the bar.  Mr. Park brought out several coolers and plastic tubs filled with ice, which he then filled up with beer.  The beer was cold just before the hot food came out.  Faith was surprised at the number of people who showed up, but he wasn’t sure if that was a testament to the popularity of him and his peers, or if it as the lure of free alcohol.  He was pretty sure it was the latter.

An hour or so into the revelry, Faith’s company commander showed up, had one beer, congratulated Faith, and then excused himself.  That was fine, because Faith intended to get really drunk tonight, and would feel better about doing so if his boss wasn’t watching.  Sergeant Ellery was there of course, as was all of 5th Platoon.  While this was a joint party, most of the participants self-segregated by platoon.  Faith’s 5th Platoon, out of nothing more than coincidence, was nearest the bar.  There were 20 of them total, crowded around three or four plastic round-top tables, which were at this point covered with empty beer cans, dirty plates, and cigarette ash trays.  Everyone was having a really good time.  Faith was very buzzed, but he kept drinking.  He tended to be a happy drunk, and he didn’t understand how some people got violent and wanted to fight when they drank.  Faith just got sleepy, and he woke up at more than one fraternity party with dicks drawn on his face with black magic marker after nodding off during a party.  

There was little chance of nodding off this time, though, because there was a LOT going on.  In addition to four more-or-less entire platoons from 1/327 there, but there were lots of troops from other units, and lots of locals.  Karoke was going on, so there was a lot of noise.  Young women dressed up for a night out provided stimulating “eye candy.”  And there was also a hot card game going, and Faith was right in the middle of it.  It was, of course, Spades.  Faith’s platoon learned he played during one of their many road trips to perform burial duty.  One of them thought it was weird, because “officers don’t play spades.”  Well not only did Faith play spades, he was actually quite good at it, and at Hearts.  

He actually preferred Hearts, because it was harder for people to cheat.  And the only thing that Soldiers spent more time on than playing Spades, was figuring out how to cheat at Spades.  It wasn’t that Faith was morally opposed to cheating; to the contrary, he was quite adept at it himself.  His favorite way was to take his hand after it was dealt, spread his cards out in his hand, and start organizing them.  This is, of course, what every other player was doing at the same time.  The difference was, Faith would fan his cards in his hands so that they showed towards his partner, instead of himself.  With the two opposing players focused on their own cards, most of the time no one except Faith’s partner would notice this little trick.  And if someone did notice?  Well, it was all part of the game.

Tonight, though, Faith was playing it straight, partly because his partner was one of the Soldiers in the platoon he never played with before, but mostly because there were too many witnesses.  Sergeant Wilson had returned victorious from Ranger School and had come to pay his respects, and he was paired with Specialist Stringer against Faith and another lieutenant.  Because Faith refused to gamble for money, the wager was for pushups and bragging rights.  Wilson and Stringer were good players and played together often.  They were also accomplished cheats.  What they didn’t realize, though, was that Faith had figured out their signals and table talk.  That was the edge that was needed to push Faith and his partner over the edge and to a win.

When the final cards were played, the table erupted in cheers and laughter. Wilson and Stringer had run their mouths the entire game, and lost in the last hand. They loudly protested but were shouted down by their colleagues. Laughing, Stringer and Wilson dropped to the floor of the club and knocked out the wagered 101 pushups.

Still laughing, Faith stood up to go to the bar and get a round of shots for him and his platoon. Some of his men were underage, but everyone was just going to let that go tonight. He got in line behind one of the locals, a tough-looking youngster that walked around like he had a chip on his shoulder. The young man dressed as if he wanted everyone to think that he was a gangster, but Faith suspected it was just a show. He noticed the man and his friends snaking beers out of the coolers Mr. Park put out for the promotion party, but had decided to let it go. This was a party, and there was plenty to go around.

The man in front of Faith was a local, also known as a townie, and he was taking forever to get his drink ordered. With all of the background noise it took Faith a while to realize that it was because he was trying to talk to a young woman seated at the bar, who plainly had no interest in him.

“Hey man, can I slide by?” Faith asked, tapping the man lightly on the shoulder.

“In a minute,” the man said, not even bothering to face Faith. “Can’t you see that I’m asking this lady if I can buy her a drink?”

Faith was annoyed. “Hey look, if she’s thirsty why don’t you just go grab another of our beers, like the ones you’ve been stealing all night?” Faith said, testily.

The man whirled around to face Faith, his face twisted with anger. “W’at did you say t’ me?” he slurred.

“Oh my God, this guy is really drunk,” Faith thought to himself.

By this time, everyone on that end of the bar was looking at Faith and the townie. “Look, I just want some shots,” Faith explained, “Can I get by?”

“No,” the townie said definitively, squaring up to Faith. Faith sighed. He didn’t want a fight, he just wanted a tray full of whiskey shots. Ordinarily he’d want to fight, but the alcohol had mellowed him out. He also knew that this guy was here with four or five of his buddies, and any with all of the people here with Faith, any type of fight was likely to turn into a full-fledged brawl. Faith looked towards the tables where the men in his platoon were partying. But the club was crowded and noisy, and none of them were looking Faith’s way. Faith decided he’d come back for the shots later and started to turn away.

“You know what?  Never mind,” Faith said, turning to go back to his platoon.

Seeing Faith leaving, the townie grabbed the woman he was talking to by the arm. “That’s what I thought.  Come on, let’s dance,” he ordered her.

“Ow, you’re hurting me!” Faith heard a tiny female voice exclaim. Faith turned and saw that the townie had his hand on the bare bicep of a young brunette in a short black dress. She was attractive enough, but that was probably just because of the dress and the makeup. He was trying to pull her towards the dance floor, but she clearly didn’t want to go. Faith didn’t want to get involved, but now he felt he had to.

“Hey bro, don’t grab her like that,” Faith said.

“Why don’t you mind your own business?” one of the townie’s friends said. Now Faith was facing the townie and four of his friends.

Faith didn’t want a fight. He just wanted to have a good time with his guys. But he also deeply detested bullies. He had about a second to think about his next move before the situation escalated dramatically.
Faith saw something moving towards him at the last second, but by then it was too late to do anything about it. While Faith’s attention was focused on one of the townie’s friends, the townie swung a mostly-full beer bottle directly at Faith’s face. It was more or less a sucker punch, but with a bottle. Fortunately it did not break when it made contact, but it was still a solid hit directly under Faith’s left eye. It was a wild swing, and not particularly fast, but it was an accurate one. If he hadn’t been so drunk himself, Faith thought later, he probably could have ducked it.

The blow impacted with a solid THUNK that rocked Faith’s head back and left him momentarily stunned. He might even have fallen to the ground if he hadn’t already had his hand resting on the bar. Faith sensed more than heard what happened next. Someone behind him yelled “Oh, HELL NO!” and there was the sound of chair legs scraping the floor and a lot of men jumping to their feet. The girl who the townie was holding let out a small scream.

The townie’s friends, more aware than he was that Faith was at the bar with a group of 40+ other men that were now very much interested in what was happening, wisely grabbed the man and held him back from any further aggression.

“Stttoooppppppp!!” Faith bellowed, standing back up straight and holding out his arms to stop his men from rushing into the fray.

“You hit like a little bitch,” Faith informed the townie who had hit him, calmly but forcefully. “And unless you want to be on the wrong end of an Alabama monkey stomp, you and your little girlfriends,” he continued, waving a dismissive hand at the man’s cronies, “will get on out of here, right fucking now.”

“I’m not afraid of you,” the man said as his friends dragged him towards the club’s exit.

“Well, right now you probably should be,” Faith retorted.

As the townies made a well-advised exit from the club, Mr. Park the club manager arrived on the scene.  

“What going on here?” he asked in his thick Korean accent.

“Nothing, Mr. Park, we’re all good here,” Faith assured him. Mr. Park didn’t look like he believed Faith, but he let it go.

“Are you OK?” the cute brunette in the black dress asked Faith after the townies had cleared out. Her name was probably Tina or something.

“Yeah, I’m fine,” Faith informed her.

“Do you want to buy me a drink?” she asked, smiling fetchingly.

“Nope,” Faith said immediately, “But  I’m sure one of those guys do,” he added, indicating the areas where his Soldiers were now settling back into their seats.  “Plus I bet they will treat you better than that clown you were just talking to.”  Faith was sure one of his guys eventually ended up going home with her that night.  He just hoped that the woman wasn’t some sergeant major’s underage daughter.

Most of the Soldiers in 5th Platoon hadn’t seen what happened at the bar, but they heard what Faith had said to the group of townies, and they were all ready to fight if required. In fact, it seemed that everyone had gotten up to back Faith up after he got hit by the townie. Everyone, that is, except for one person.

“Damn Thigpen, how are you going to let your LT get hit in the face, and not do anything about it?” Specialist Stringer admonished, after Faith rejoined the group with his tray of shots.

“Yeah, you kind of sat there like a little pussy and didn’t do anything,” Sergeant Wilson agreed. Even Sergeant Ellery had something to say:

“Look, Thigpen,” he said, not unkindly, “We’re a team. We back each other up. The next time someone puts their hands on our LT, or any of us, I expect you to do something about it. Just like we would do for you.”

Thigpen seemed genuinely embarrassed. It wasn’t that he was scared to get into a fight… well, it wasn’t just that… but he genuinely did not know what he was supposed to do.

Faith assured them that he was fine, reiterated that the townie hit like a bitch, and there was no need for anyone to do anything other than to continue to drink, which everyone was more than happy to do.


After sharing the round of shots with his platoon, Faith decided it was time to wrap things up.  His face was starting to hurt, and he was getting tired.  And God only knows what else was going to happen if he stuck around.  In the retelling of what happened, the term “Alabama monkey stomp” because the platoon’s catch phrase and inside joke.  It had definitely been a night to remember.

Sergeant Ellery decided it was time for him to leave as well, and Faith and Ellery walked out together.   “You’re going to want to put some ice on that when you get home, sir,” Ellery informed him, “or you’re going to have a black eye.”

“Eh,” Faith replied noncommittally.

“Give you a ride home, sir?” Ellery inquired.  

“Nah, I just live down the street,” Faith said.  “It’ll be good for me to walk it off.”

Ellery did not seem to approve.

“I mean, what’s going to happen, it’s not like I’m going to catch a DUI,” Faith laughed.  “See you Monday.”

It was only a mile or so back to his house, and he was on foot.  What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Faith and Ellery decided that they would go to bat for Thigpen, so he was allowed to stay in the company.  But any further screw-ups, and Thigpen was gone.  Fair enough.
> 
> A few weeks went by, and LT Faith was starting to think that he was getting the hang of this “Infantry platoon leader” thing. He was getting stronger and fitter thanks to Sergeant Ellery’s relentless PT program, his platoon was leading the company in almost every measurable category—PT test scores, weapons qualifications, vehicle maintenance, TOW qualification tables—and morale was sky-high. Even Thigpen was getting better.
> 
> ...


Hope he enjoys going to the hospital in a "bus"


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 15, 2020)

Townie and bro bros are going to be waiting outside, more than likely. Shit gets started in a bar, buddy team minimums now apply at all times with break contact SOP's etc in full effect.


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## racing_kitty (Apr 15, 2020)

Townies are like Sand People, driving a Camaro instead of riding a bantha. This is going to end badly.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Faith and Ellery decided that they would go to bat for Thigpen, so he was allowed to stay in the company.  But any further screw-ups, and Thigpen was gone.  Fair enough.
> 
> A few weeks went by, and LT Faith was starting to think that he was getting the hang of this “Infantry platoon leader” thing. He was getting stronger and fitter thanks to Sergeant Ellery’s relentless PT program, his platoon was leading the company in almost every measurable category—PT test scores, weapons qualifications, vehicle maintenance, TOW qualification tables—and morale was sky-high. Even Thigpen was getting better.
> 
> ...


Someone is going to be in the stockade...and someone is going to be in the hospital.


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## Kaldak (Apr 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> What could possibly go wrong?



Famous last words. He's getting jumped.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Someone is going to be in the stockade...and someone is going to be in the hospital.



Interestingly, when I commanded 5th Group's MID we were located inside Campbell's old post stockade.  Good times...


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## Bambi (Apr 15, 2020)

Never ever go alone leaving a bar/restaurant/ any place after having an altercation inside. A year or so ago 2 friends and I had an altercation at a Waffle House with drunks/druggies, when we went outside, 2 girls had a pipe wrench and a screwdriver waiting for us, and a guy who’s right hand was deep in a jacket pocket, had not been for deescalation and all of us being out there, they would of tried to jump one of us.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 15, 2020)

Like most things on post the Stab n Jab Club was walking distance from Faith’s house, and if the walk home didn’t sober him up it at least made him more alert.  It also popped into his mind that the townie  and his boys might be looking for some payback, but that didn’t happen.  The walk back was longer than he remembered, and Faith regretted not taking up Sergeant Ellery on that ride.

Faith’s face was hurting badly by the time he got back home, and he really meant to ice it, but he ended up falling asleep on the couch instead.  And as predicted, in the morning he had a black left eye.  Faith hoped that his black eye would be gone by Monday, but it wasn’t.  He was not looking forward to explaining to his company commander how he got a shiner over the weekend, but interestingly, Captain Thompson never asked.  And since there wasn’t a police report on the incident, it was like it never even happened.

Faith was amazed by how the story of the Friday night fight grew in the telling.  His personal favorite was “LT beat the shit out of five drunk-ass townies, and all that happened was that he got a black eye!”  That was, of course, not at all close to what happened, but it was an interesting enough twist on the story that Faith just let it go.

Sergeant Ellery held the platoon after the First Sergeant released everyone after Monday’s end of day formation.  When the rest of the company was out of earshot, he addressed the men:

“I just wanted to say thanks to our LT for the party on Friday night,” Ellery said, “and that I’m proud of you for your discipline and your behavior. Friday night could have ended very badly for a lot of people,” he added.

“Alabama monkey stomp!” someone shouted from within the platoon, illicitly a burst of laughter.

 “BUT… the next time someone threatens the LT, you better stick up for him,” admonished Sergeant Ellery.  “All of you,” he added, looking directly at Private Thigpen.  “In 5th Platoon, we’re all in this together.  We all take care of each other.”


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## Kaldak (Apr 16, 2020)

I'm waiting for the racial implication of the term "Alabama monkey stomp" to come into play.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 16, 2020)

At morning formation a few weeks after the promotion party, First Sergeant announced that it was Lieutenant Faith’s birthday.  Now this was a problem, because in Delta Company, as in much of the rest of the Infantry, there was a tradition of the Birthday Beatdown.  What usually happened is that the “birthday boy” got jumped by his friends, who then pulled up his shirt and smacked him on his bare belly the number of times equal to his age in years.  The open-handed smacks caused the recipients skin to turn red, hence the process was appropriately-enough called a “redbelly.”  The informal rules also stipulated that it had to happen on the actual day of the birthday, and that the “victim” was allowed to fight back.  So if the birthday boy could avoid the beatdown on his actual birthday, or if he could fight his way out (or if his birthday was simply on a non-work day), then the beatdown could be avoided.

In a kind of perverse logic, the more someone was liked, the more people wanted to participate in the birthday beatdown, so the worse it actually was for that person.  Counterintuitively, if someone was disliked, they might not get a birthday beating at all.  What usually happened is that First Sergeant announced it was someone’s birthday, the entire company sang happy birthday to him, and then that person’s platoon dogpiled the man and gave him his birthday redbelly.  It happened just a week ago to a sergeant in 5th Platoon.  Faith thought that officers were exempt from this tradition, but he wasn’t sure.  And he didn’t really want to find out.

Immediately following formation, LT Faith and Sergeant Ellery returned to their office to handle some paperwork while the rest of the platoon moved to the motor pool for weekly maintenance.  The routine in the company was that during “motor stables,” the platoon leader and platoon sergeant wrangled paperwork for the first hour or two and then joined the platoon at the motor pool for maintenance.  All of the platoons followed that routine, so the only individuals currently in the company headquarters were the platoon leaders and platoon sergeants, and the company-level leadership.

Sergeant Ellery reviewed counseling packets while LT Faith pored over the company and platoon training calendars, each seeking the other’s input on specific issues.

“Specialist Stringer’s E5 board is coming up, sir,” Ellery stated. “Sergeant Spencer says he’s ready. I don’t think you’d have any objections?”

“None,” Faith confirmed, “I think Stringer will make a great NCO.” The two of them agreed that it made sense to send Stringer to join Sergeant Wilson in 2nd Platoon after Stringer pinned on his sergeant stripes, in keeping with the tradition of moving lower enlisted Soldiers into a different platoon after they earned their way into the NCO ranks.

“So in 90 days, there’s company-level collective task training on the same week we planned on doing platoon stakes. I’m thinking we probably need to move the platoon training up a week or so?” Faith inquired, comparing the two training calendars.

“Yes sir, that’s probably a good call,” Ellery responded.  “We’ll have to re-arrange some Sergeants’ Time training but we have plenty of time to react.”

There was an unexpected knock at the door.  “Come in,” Ellery instructed.  It was Sergeant Manners from Second Platoon.

“Hey sir, I’d like to talk to you for a minute,” he said to Lieutenant Faith.

“OK, sure,” Faith responded. Ellery grabbed his hat to leave the office so that the two of them could have some privacy.

“No, you should hear this too,” Manners said, waving Ellery back to his seat.
Manners took a deep breath. “I was an asshole and I’m sorry,” said Sergeant Manners. It was so blunt and so unexpected, that Faith didn’t know what to say.

“You were right about Private Thigpen. He deserved better than what we gave him,” Manners continued. “I was going through a rough spot in my marriage at the time, and I took it out on him, and on you. Thanks for what you’re doing for him now.”

Faith was legitimately at a loss for words. As usual, Ellery bailed him out. “Thank you, Sergeant Manners,” he said, “That means a lot.”

“Yes,” Faith said, recovering. “Thank you Sergeant Manners. No worries.” He stood and shook Manners’ hand. The three of them then exchanged some small talk about company business, and then Manners excused himself. When the sound of his footsteps disappeared down the hall, Faith turned to Ellery. “Did you put him up to that?”

“No sir,” Ellery said, “I’m just as surprised as you are.”

It took guts and humility to do something like that. As far as Faith was concerned, it was water under the bridge months ago. But now he had a newfound respect for Manners.

Later that morning, Faith was checking in on his troops in the motor pool when he was approached by three of 5th Platoon’s junior enlisted men. They were trying—and failing—to look menacing.

“Happy birthday, sir, ready for that redbelly?”

“Look men, I went to a military junior college and was a member of a major college fraternity,” Faith explained.  “My days of getting hazed are over.  You can jump me if you want to, and you might get me, but the first person to step up is getting a broken jaw,” he stated emphatically, raising his right fist to show his ring.  “Real talk.”  It was pure bravado; Faith had no intention of trying to maim anyone.  But he wasn’t going to go out like a punk either.  The soldiers surrounding Faith considered his size and what he just said, and then drifted away.  “We’ll talk later, sir,” one of them said.

Later that day, LT Faith had the joy of experiencing his first-ever “suicide prevention brief.”  It was mind-numbingly boring.  The entire battalion was crammed into the hot and crowded battalion chapel.  Arriving just before the start time, Faith took an open seat in the rear of the horseshoe-shaped sanctuary.  He could see most of Delta Company seated together on the exact opposite side.  Briefer after briefer got up to talk about the ills of suicide and all of the people and programs in place to help Soldiers not off themselves.  During an impassioned but awkward talk from the battalion chaplain, Faith couldn’t help but think that this type of thing was exactly the kind of stuff that drove people to kill themselves in the first place.  Stifling a yawn, he noticed someone trying to get his attention.

Across the room, Specialist Wilson and Corporal Laser were mouthing “Happy Birthday!” while grinding their clenched right fist into their open left palm.  Faith couldn’t help but smile.  For his part, Faith clenched his own fist and tapped his ring gently against his own jaw, mouthing a “knock, knock” noise.   Sensing movement, the chaplain looked over at Faith, who quickly pretended to be rubbing his jaw in deep thought.

Faith let his mind wander while pretending to pay rapt attention, a skill he mastered in college and put to good use in the Officer Basic Course at Fort Benning.  He let his mind wander to his list of daydream usual suspects:  girls, anxiety of whether he was doing a good job as platoon leader, and returning to Ranger School, usually in that order.

Suicide prevention training was lame. They were in the Infantry, 101st Airborne Division, and Infantrymen did not kill themselves. Not over peacetime garrison bullshit, anyway.

Faith was very much on his guard during final formation. If Corporal Laser and Specialist Wilson were going to make a move, this was going to be the time. But no one looked Faith’s way as the company formation broke up. Faith was contemplating making a dash to his car, but Sergeant Ellery told the platoon to hold fast, holding the unit in place until the other platoons departed. When they were out of earshot, he lit into his men.

“5th Platoon!” he bellowed. “For the last week, I’ve told you to do better job taking care of your vehicles. Too many people have been leaving trash inside their HUMVEES. We discussed this,”

That was true. Trash in the vehicles was a pet peeve of the battalion sergeant major… which meant is was a pet peeve of all of the company first sergeants… which meant it was a pet peeve of… well, you get the picture.

“Well,” Ellery continued, “We had motor stables today, and I decided to do a snap inspection of the vehicles after we were done with maintenance. AND GUESS WHAT I FOUND?” he shouted, reaching into the cargo pocket of his uniform pants.

Faith was genuinely curious. 5th Platoon usually did a really good job of cleaning up after themselves. And while Faith didn’t personally search every vehicle, he was in the motor pool this morning and didn’t notice any trash in any 5th Platoon vehicle.

“Spit bottle!” Well, that was likely. Lots of guys in the platoon dipped tobacco, it was easy enough to set it down and accidentally forget about it. Sergeant Ellery flung the bottle down at his feet.

“Pringles can!” he continued, holding the small tin can out for everyone to see before letting it drop to the ground.

A used condom wrapper!” he added, tossing the offending item into the air. It fluttered back down to the ground at his feet.

“AN EFFING BEER CAN!” he bellowed, tossing it to the ground. Well now, that was a little ridiculous, Faith thought. I mean who the hell is drinking beer in the motor pool? Corporal Laser made the mistake of snickering.

“Oh, you think this is funny, Corporal Laser?” Ellery challenged, making a beeline for the young corporal.

“No sergeant!” Laser exclaimed.

“No, Sergeant, he says,” Ellery repeated, mocking him. “You know what Corporal, just get down and push.” Corporal Laser immediately dropped to the pushup position and started knocking them out. He didn’t want Sergeant Ellery any angrier than he already was.

“You know what, ALL OF YOU, get down and push!” Ellery exclaimed. Even though Faith, as an officer, didn’t have to participate in the mass physical punishment of the platoon,

One, two THREE, should have cleaned your HUMVEE… now you’re doing pushups… here with me…”

Ellery suddenly jumped to his feet and ran over to where Thigpen was doing pushups.

“Thigpen—what the hell is that? Those pushups are absolute garbage!!” In his usual position behind the platoon, Faith was only a couple of feet behind Thigpen. Surprisingly, his pushups didn’t really look that bad. Ellery must just want something to be mad about, Faith reasoned.

“Lower… lower… low…” he said

…and then something very unexpected happened.

----




sooo… what do you think happened? ;)


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 16, 2020)

Dog Pile like a mo-fo!
#red-belly


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## Andoni (Apr 16, 2020)

Lieutenant Faith got his birthday beatdown, led by Sergeant Manners, because now they are on friendlier terms?


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## Andoni (Apr 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dog Pile like a mo-fo!
> #red-belly


I really like this case study.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 16, 2020)

My oh my things have changed.  When I was at Company level, the Commander's wife gave the Soldiers cards.  Senior NCOs and Officers got nothing.  Every time our Soldiers would say: So, Sir, it's my birthday do I get the day off?


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## DasBoot (Apr 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> My oh my things have changed.  When I was at Company level, the Commander's wife gave the Soldiers cards.  Senior NCOs and Officers got nothing.  Every time our Soldiers would say: So, Sir, it's my birthday do I get the day off?


You missed out. We still “ball” dudes up on their birthday. PLs and PSGs included.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 16, 2020)

I think I got a birthday card from the unit once in my entire military career.  It was from a boss I later filed a 22-page IG complaint against for, among other things, bullying, malfeasance,  and toxic leadership.  

That boss was all about show, and not about substance. "Oh, you gave all of a birthday card? That's great boss... but how about getting the unit's evals, awards, and disciplinary actions handled in a timely manner instead?"

This happened much later in my career than the events portrayed in this case study.


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## DasBoot (Apr 16, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I think I got a birthday card from the unit once in my entire military career.  It was from a boss I later filed a 22-page IG complaint against for, among other things, bullying, malfeasance,  and toxic leadership.


Yeah... who the fuck is giving their dudes Bday cards?

To quote my last PSG- “that’s gay... not like ‘linkin dudes’ gay cause that’s fine but like...  bad gay.”


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## Marauder06 (Apr 16, 2020)

DasBoot said:


> Yeah... who the fuck is giving their dudes Bday cards?
> 
> To quote my last PSG- “that’s gay... not like ‘linkin dudes’ gay cause that’s fine but like...  bad gay.”



I have an article pending on this subject... so the "birthday cards" thing is cool, but it's a "band of excellence" thing. As in, if you're doing all of the basics right, then you can move into the showy, nice-to-do stuff. But some leaders focus on the "show"--because it's what gets them attention from their higher ups, or it ingratiates them with their subordinates--at the expense of the "go." The leader I mentioned above was all about the "show." 

...and, unfortunately, it worked.  That person got promoted to a very prestigious position, and left a destroyed unit in their wake.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Apr 17, 2020)

So many posts!!!!  

The LT's woman should not have been conducting PT with the men.  However we all forget Big Military you have no choice, in the 90's if the LT told me that his woman was grabbing a weapon from the Arms room to go shoot with us we would have been like rgr that Sir, does she need mags too?
Did Thigpen hurt the LT lady intentional?  I think it was an accident.

The worst award I've ever seen:  OPFOR all received AAM's for building a MRE Bomb while the rest of us were cold, alone, nekid and afraid...it was the 90's!
Too many people that deserve awards that didn't get one to count or list here.
Thigpen needs a good leader.  My experience in Big Military:  Good leaders fix bad soldiers and bad leaders bread bad soldiers.

The PT event.  Bottom line:  bend the rules if you can, work as a team, and listen to everyone.  When you are sucking for miles, there is no bad idea!

Birthday fun day, yeah I've seen some serious birthday celebrations.  It seems like the more crazy the guys go, they more they like you.  Its an honor....


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> So many posts!!!!
> 
> The LT's woman should not have been conducting PT with the men.  However we all forget Big Military you have no choice, in the 90's* if the LT told me that his woman was grabbing a weapon from the Arms room to go shoot with us we would have been like rgr that Sir, does she need mags too?
> *




lol ;)



SpongeBob*24 said:


> Did Thigpen hurt the LT lady intentional?  I think it was an accident.
> 
> The worst award I've ever seen:  OPFOR all received AAM's for building a MRE Bomb while the rest of us were cold, alone, nekid and afraid...it was the 90's!
> Too many people that deserve awards that didn't get one to count or list here.
> ...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

“Lower… lower… low…” Ellery said, exhorting Private Thigpen to execute the correct form.  “Low…” he started…

…and then jumped on Faith’s back.

Faith was totally not suspecting this move.  Ellery jumped on him when Faith was in the “down” position, so he really had no chance of doing anything at all.  And as soon as Ellery jumped him, the rest of the platoon gleefully

“Stop!  Get off of him!” Thigpen exclaimed, clearly not in on the plan to “get” the lieutenant.  He began trying to pull his fellow platoon mates off of LT Faith, but was not having any success.  He tugged and pulled on various members of the platoon but they shook him off.   A hard shove from one of his platoon mates sent Thigpen sprawling.

Right as 5th Platoon began to render the redbelly to their platoon leader, Captain Thompson, the company commander, emerged from the company headquarters.  Four slaps in, everyone stopped and looked at him, unsure of what his reaction was going to be.  Corporal Laser let go of the joint lock he had on Faith’s right wrist and jumped to his feet, rendering a sharp salute to his company commander.

“Good afternoon, sir!” he exclaimed cheerfully.

Thompson surveyed the scene. “Carry on, Corporal,” he said, as if seeing a pile of Soldiers holding down a raging platoon leader who had his shirt pulled up and red handprints all over his bare white belly was a normal occurrence. He continued on to his car, and then the fight began anew.

Perhaps remembering Sergeant Ellery’s earlier admonition to him, and probably also because of his very low social awareness, Private Thigpen again tried to intervene on LT Faith’s behalf.

“STOP IT!!” he shouted, to no effect.   Unable to stop what was happening, he decided to do the one thing no one really expected:  he reacted with violence, striking Specialist Stringer hard across the face with an open-hand slap.

Now, if there was anyone in the platoon (other than Sergeant Ellery) that you DIDN’T want to “bitch-slap,” it was Specialist Stringer.  Short, black, and built like a tank, Stringer carried himself with the surety of youth and strength.  His usual off-duty attire was jeans and a white tank top, which helped show off his massive upper body and multiple tattoos.  He held the current record in the company for most pushups during a PT test (108), as well as for the number of Summarized Articles 15 (3), all of which were for fighting.  He was also the only person in the platoon with whom Thigpen had any kind of near-friendship.  Stringer considered Thigpen—and even referred to him as—his “retarded little brother,” 

“What the FUCK??” Stringer exclaimed, completely shocked that Thigpen hit him, especially over something like this..  He then stood up and punched Thigpen hard in the stomach.  It was only once, but Stringer was a strong man and Thigpen… wasn’t.  Thigpen fell on the ground, doubled over in pain and with the wind knocked out of him.

Fortunately, Faith was pretty young so the red belly was over quickly once they had him pinned down.  Twenty-four smacks later, and it was all done.  Faith laughed as his platoon helped him to his feet.  He didn’t really want to break anyone’s jaw, of course, but he did wish he could have gotten some good licks in.  He didn’t.

“Welcome to the platoon, sir,” Ellery said, helping his platoon leader to his feet.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 17, 2020)

Thigpen is beyond help....he just is.
Thigpen never should have made it past his recruiter, muchless MEPP's.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 17, 2020)

Not sure how Stringer is going to pass his E5 board with three Summarized article 15s.  But yeah, time for Thigpen to go.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

Andoni said:


> Lieutenant Faith got his birthday beatdown, led by Sergeant Manners, because now they are on friendlier terms?



Good guess.  That part was in there solely to set up a plot twist at the Stab 'n Jab that I deleted without posting it because it seemed too contrived.  It's kind of a red herring now, I guess.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not sure how Stringer is going to pass his E5 board with three Summarized article 15s.  But yeah, time for Thigpen to go.



Good point. Maybe that's why he's not an E5 already?

And I mean hey, can you be a legit combat arms Soldier in a conventional line unit without one or more summarized Art15s?  ;)


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 17, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Good point. Maybe that's why he's not an E5 already?
> 
> And I mean hey, can you be a legit combat arms Soldier in a conventional line unit without one or more summarized Art15s?  ;)


As they used to say: Only way to make Sergeant Major is to have a DUI...


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

“Damn, sir, you got Alabama monkey stomped!” Specialist Stringer said exuberantly when it was all over.  And it was true. Faith wasn’t mad about the platoon-level beatdown.  It took a high degree of planning and cooperation to pull it off.  Faith just wished he could have gotten a few good licks in.  The situation reminded him of a description of Soldiers that he once read in a very old edition of the Officers’ Guide:  _“Enlisted men are sly, cunning, and bear considerable watching,”_ or some such.  Faith thought that sentiment was condescending and outdated, but his men certainly lived up to that reputation this time.

As the rest of the platoon drifted away after was to them a very satisfying birthday beatdown, Faith put his uniform top back on retrieved his hat. The only people left were himself and Private Thigpen, who was still curled up on the ground.

“I’m sorry sir!” Thigpen exclaimed. Faith was taken aback. He saw that Thigpen had tried to help him. He saw Thigpen take a punch for him. It wasn’t even a real fight. Faith didn’t understand why Thigpen was so upset. He was even crying.

What a pussy.

“I can’t do anything!”  Thigpen blubbered as Faith approached the man, kneeling to put a reassuring hand on Thigpen’s shoulder.  

“Hey, look, I’m good.  We’re all good,” Faith said, with as much sympathy as he could muster.  Why was Thigpen so upset?  Faith was the one who was the recipient of a good-natured ass beating, not Private Thigpen.  Now that it was over, Faith thought it was funny.  He also recognized it for what it was:  a rite of passage and a public symbol that he had been accepted by his Soldiers.

“No sir, it’s not,” Thigpen said definitively.  “It will NEVER be OK.”  Sniffling, he got to his feet and drifted away in the direction of the barracks.  Thinking of this incident later, Faith recalled that he had never seen someone so forlorn or dejected.  

“What a weirdo,” Faith thought as he made his way gingerly to his truck. His whole body was going to hurt tomorrow. He made a mental note to sit down with Thigpen to talk through some things.

But he never did.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 17, 2020)

3 posts left.  This case study will be concluded by Sunday night.


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## racing_kitty (Apr 17, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> “Damn, sir, you got Alabama monkey stomped!” Specialist Stringer said exuberantly when it was all over.  And it was true. Faith wasn’t mad about the platoon-level beatdown.  It took a high degree of planning and cooperation to pull it off.  Faith just wished he could have gotten a few good licks in.  The situation reminded him of a description of Soldiers that he once read in a very old edition of the Officers’ Guide:  _“Enlisted men are sly, cunning, and bear considerable watching,”_ or some such.  Faith thought that sentiment was condescending and outdated, but his men certainly lived up to that reputation this time.
> 
> As the rest of the platoon drifted away after was to them a very satisfying birthday beatdown, Faith put his uniform top back on retrieved his hat. The only people left were himself and Private Thigpen, who was still curled up on the ground.
> 
> ...


I have a hunch that Thigpen is gonna try to become one of 22, if he doesn’t succeed. Heartbreaking, for sure, but when you can’t fit anywhere, that option is an attractive one.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I have a hunch that Thigpen is gonna try to become one of 22, if he doesn’t succeed. Heartbreaking, for sure, but when you can’t fit anywhere, that option is an attractive one.


This has been my view of Thigpen from the very beginning of this case study; to include the ending.


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## Cookie_ (Apr 18, 2020)

Remember that Thigpen was introduced to us by getting ganged up on by a group of people; it isn't out of character for him to react badly to seeing someone (seemingly) getting jumped like he was


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Remember that Thigpen was introduced to us by getting ganged up on by a group of people; it isn't out of character for him to react badly to seeing someone (seemingly) getting jumped like he was


I think Thigpen was reacting the way he was because after the altercation in the bar, he was told that under no circumstances was he to stand by and let his LT take a beat down.  Thigpen was not aware of the birthday plan; so as far as he knew, that platoon was beating the LT’s ass.


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## Bambi (Apr 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> “Damn, sir, you got Alabama monkey stomped!” Specialist Stringer said exuberantly when it was all over.  And it was true. Faith wasn’t mad about the platoon-level beatdown.  It took a high degree of planning and cooperation to pull it off.  Faith just wished he could have gotten a few good licks in.  The situation reminded him of a description of Soldiers that he once read in a very old edition of the Officers’ Guide:  _“Enlisted men are sly, cunning, and bear considerable watching,”_ or some such.  Faith thought that sentiment was condescending and outdated, but his men certainly lived up to that reputation this time.
> 
> As the rest of the platoon drifted away after was to them a very satisfying birthday beatdown, Faith put his uniform top back on retrieved his hat. The only people left were himself and Private Thigpen, who was still curled up on the ground.
> 
> ...


Thigpen has been described as mentally slow, low social awareness. His reaction to Faiths Alabama monkey stomp would signal possible trauma. He’s lonely, he can’t talk to anyone in depth about his problems/issues, he’s looked at as the “retarded little brother” and he may not understand the humor the guys have around it. He needs help before he hurts himself, or others.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I think Thigpen was reacting the way he was because after the altercation in the bar, he was told that under no circumstances was he to stand by and let his LT take a beat down.  Thigpen was not aware of the birthday plan; so as far as he knew, that platoon was beating the LT’s ass.



Idk, if you recall, in the morning Faith says he won't be planning on getting punched on his birthday due to his experience at a JMC and Frat life being enough hazing to last him a lifetime.  Thigpen is probably thinking of that as well.


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## DA SWO (Apr 18, 2020)

Thigpen is gonna kill himself.
Chaptering him would have accomplished the same thing.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 18, 2020)

The next morning, Faith spent some time in the company commander’s office going over some career planning.  Faith appreciated the fact the Captain Thompson was willing to take the time to do some professional development with Faith.  Being the only officer platoon leader in the entire company had its advantages sometimes.   When he emerged from Thompson’s office, Faith saw Corporal Laser waiting for him.  “Sir, Sergeant Ellery asked to see you in the office, he said to tell you it’s important.”  Faith made the short walk down to the office.  Ellery and David were there already, and Corporal Laser came in as well, pulling the door behind him.

“One of our guys pissed hot,” Ellery informed Faith, meaning that one of 5th Platoon’s troops had a urinalysis result that indicated a positive result for drug consumption.   “Marijuana and X.”

Faith was shocked.  He could not imagine active-duty Army Soldiers doing drugs, especially with the frequency that the unit did urinalysis testing.

“Who?” he asked, incredulously.

“Do you want to guess, or…” Sergeant David asked, his voice trailing off.

Faith thought about it for a minute. He literally had no clue which one of his troops was a pothead.

“Wait—not Thigpen!” he exclaimed.

Sergeant David looked back at him, lips pursed and eyebrows raised.

“God damn it,” Faith sighed as he flopped down into his chair. “After all we did for him.”

The battalion policy on drugs was zero-tolerance. A first offense was grounds for an immediate Chapter separation from the service. If the Soldier was otherwise superb, his chain of command might be able to salvage him. But Thigpen was far from superb.

The results indicated that Thigpen tested positive for both marijuana and ecstasy. While not “hard core” drugs like heroin, cocaine, or meth, they were still illegal. And the Army took a very dim view of illegal drug use.

In the back of his mind, Faith thought that it might be some kind of mistake.  Maybe the urinalysis returned a wrong result, or they got people mixed up or something.  It happened.  But when read his rights and confronted with the results of his failed urinalysis, Thigpen readily admitted to drug use.  He was then advised that the process to separate him from the Army under Chapter 14 of Army Regulation 635-200.  As was policy in the battalion, he was transferred “off the line” to Headquarters Platoon to await separation.  At the end of the duty day, Corporal Laser walked Private Thigpen over to Headquarters and checked him in with his new supervisor.  It happened that fast.

Faith was conflicted.  On the one hand, it was kind of nice to be responsible for the battalion’s problem child anymore.  Yet, Faith still felt as if he had failed.  He mentally did the math and realized that Thigpen must have smoked a week or so after joining 5th Platoon… and Faith never knew.  Whereas he was disappointed, Ellery was angry.  

Faith was worried about Thigpen’s future. “Thigpen is not going to make it in the real world, without an NCO there to hold his hand every step of the way,” Faith opined to Sergeant Ellery.

“Sir, as of exactly 15 minutes ago, that is no longer our problem,” Ellery stated bluntly.


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## Cookie_ (Apr 18, 2020)

Having dealt with my own Thigpens, I'm if the opinion that he may have been trying to ensure he got put out.

Sometimes privates realize the army isn't for them and they start looking for ways to get chaptered. 

All the same, he's a high risk soldier still. Send him to ASAP (if that's a thing during this time period) and make sure he's still monitored while the separation process happens.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Yet, Faith still felt as if he had failed.


Just like most young executives would.  Time to grow up sir, and realize that you cannot save everyone.




Marauder06 said:


> “Sir, as of exactly 15 minutes ago, that is no longer our problem,” Ellery stated bluntly.


Just like most seasoned leaders would.  At some point you learn when to fish or cut bait.


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## 0699 (Apr 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Having dealt with my own Thigpens, I'm if the opinion that he may have been trying to ensure he got put out.
> 
> *Sometimes privates realize the army isn't for them and they start looking for ways to get chaptered.*
> 
> All the same, he's a high risk soldier still. Send him to ASAP (if that's a thing during this time period) and make sure he's still monitored while the separation process happens.


I had a Marine who wanted out of Iraq so bad he convinced the psych that the reason he shit his pants every night was because he was terrified of dying.  He got sent home with less than two months in country.  With the doctors recommending he be returned to the states, there wasn't much that I could do.  I did make sure the CO signed a Pg 11 entry stating his service in Iraq was *NOT* honorable and he was not authorized the Iraq Campaign Medal.  Small victories.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Apr 18, 2020)

Thigpen is about 1/2 the soldiers on Bragg in the 90's.  The recruiter lied to them, told them if they went AIRBORNE some blah blah lie, with Thunderstruck playing in the back ground next thing you know they are not happy.  He may not have turned to drugs to get out, just to deal with noone liking him.  Drugs were common in the Barracks back then.  It was nothing for 1 or 2 to come up hot on every urinalysis because we thought there was a RAT in the building.  Every big thrasher party or whatever they called them back then always followed on Monday at 0300 [I don't know how they contacted us in this Miami Vice error Cell phone world] with a CO wide pee test.  

The fix back then is the fix now, he needs an NCO to take him under his or her wing and crush them.  Like my dad use to say when he would work us until we fell over....you can't get in trouble if you are too tired.  Sounds like noone in 5th PLT is ready......so!!!!!!!

Idea:
In walks SSG Smith, a RANGER Tabbed [Fill in the blank MOS] with a decade of deployments.  He's seen Thigpens before, and he knows how to fix them.  Why was he kicked out of last Unit, thats Classified...rumor is he punched the S1 MAJ in the dick for not giving his TLs a Bronze Star but the S2 Female got one for Organizing their Calendar while deployed.  Whatever the case, he's badd ass, and even SPC Stringer is scared of this guy.  The day after Smitty checks into Faith's unit, he volunteers to babysit Thigpen.  In a year, Tigpen has a SFAS date, is a blue belt in BJJ, and is dating Faith's ex-girlfriend!!!!!


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## Marauder06 (Apr 18, 2020)

[QUOTE="SpongeBob*24, post: 578311, member: 5624]

Idea:
In walks SSG Smith, a RANGER Tabbed [Fill in the blank MOS] with a decade of deployments.  He's seen Thigpens before, and he knows how to fix them.  Why was he kicked out of last Unit, thats Classified...rumor is he punched the S1 MAJ in the dick for not giving his TLs a Bronze Star but the S2 Female got one for Organizing their Calendar while deployed.  Whatever the case, he's badd ass, and even SPC Stringer is scared of this guy.  The day after Smitty checks into Faith's unit, he volunteers to babysit Thigpen.  In a year, Tigpen has a SFAS date, is a blue belt in BJJ, and is dating Faith's ex-girlfriend!!!!!

  
[/QUOTE]

lol

Approved.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 18, 2020)

OK.  After this one, there is one more post in this case study.  I'll post it tomorrow.  So get your prognostications/pleadings/insights in now.

-----

Overnight, Faith thought about what Ellery said regarding Thigpen’s situation.  On the one hand, Faith was responsible for Thigpen.  On the other, Thigpen is the one who made the decision to do drugs.  NCOs couldn’t watch him every hour of every day.  At some point, people have to be responsible for themselves.  Faith was simultaneously disappointed, angry, and a little ashamed.  He wish he would have done better… or more… or… something.

Faith’s tradition was to go to the gym after unit PT and get in a quick lift before showing and changing into his uniform. By the time he got back to the office, Sergeant Ellery was already changed and working. He was going over some counseling packets with Staff Sergeant David and Corporal Laser. Faith noticed a yellow sticky note on his computer monitor. It bore a single word: “SORRY.”

“What’s this?” Faith asked, taking it off the monitor and showing it to Ellery. “I don’t know sir, it was on there when I got back from PT. Maybe it’s the IT guys you yelled at yesterday,” he joked. “Maybe,” Faith said as he balled up the note and tossed it into the trash. It was going to be a very busy day. They had motor stables, mandatory classroom training, and Faith was tagged with doing the monthly 10% inventory of sensitive items.

Faith patted his pockets to ensure he had everything before he started the day.  But something was missing.  Seeing him patting down all of his pockets, Corporal Laser, who was in the office talking with Sergeant Ellery, asked him if something was wrong.

“My father got me a nice Leatherman tool for my commissioning,” Faith explained.  “I used it to open some mail this morning after PT, and I’m pretty sure I left it here on my desk when I went to go take a shower.  Now it’s gone.”

“I saw Thigpen walk out of the office at around 0830,” said Corporal Laser. “He said he was looking for you. I bet that piece of shit stole it.”

Faith kind of doubted that. More likely it slipped out of his pocket, either in his truck, or maybe it fell out at the gym. It had happened before. He’d look for it later.

“Well, if you find a Leatherman with the main blade missing the tip, it’s mine,” Faith said.

“Roger, sir,” Laser answered.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 18, 2020)

The first problem with that is that you can't go around accusing people on one piece of circumstantial evidence provided by an unreliable witness. It might be worth pulling him aside later to ask about the note and to accept his apology and then ask if he'd seen the Leatherman on the desk and what his reaction might be (provided it hasn't been found in the mean time).

But right now I feel like Thigpen is being set up from a couple of different angles. He's an interesting case because the army let in him so does the army have a duty of care to these kinds of people who are so clearly unsuitable? Perhaps there could be a different MOS he could be moved into? He might flourish somewhere else.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> He's an interesting case because the army let in him so does the army have a duty of care to these kinds of people who are so clearly unsuitable?


This is the part I keep getting stuck on.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

To add -

Assuming he is not being set up by the other Soldiers, Thigpen put the "sorry" note on the monitor to apologize for the fuckup that he was.
The Leatherman will be found, Thigpen did not steal it...that behavior does not fit his profile.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2020)

Man this reminds me of my first platoon and my second platoon so much.  When I showed up to Knox, it was the Squadron rear element.  It was full of high risk soldiers of all kinds and top performers who were also on their way out.  So we had really good NCOs and a lot of questionable soldiers.  3/1 ID before I got there had one of the highest Suicide rates in the Army.  There was a 1SG who was a top performer in the BDE try to kill himself (he'd just gotten divorced and his ex-wife got everything), I'm not sure what exactly happened.  But she shouldn't have got a thing, one of the many NCOs that she was fooling around with while married to him was adversely separated for said actions. 

Well, when I got to Bliss, our Troop was considered the best in the SQDN.  Although if you looked around I'm not so sure about that when I got there.  By end of my time with my platoon and my commander's tenure it definitely was overall.  But when I got there two guys had DUIs and somehow didn't get separated.  One dude was the CSM's driver, CSM vouched for him and he was retained.  He was a decent performer, but not sure the best overall that you'd retain him instead of separating him. 

Another dude, Private P was in jail for armed robbery, prior to that he had already been in the queue of adverse separation and I think he was a week away from his clearing date.  Then there was Private F, he was being medically discharged, somehow he herniated his testicles while on duty at one point.  My second day with the platoon I had to send him to the ER as he had started bleeding down there...no idea how, he was on a deadman profile and the only thing we had him do was sit, nothing else.  He wasn't exactly a stellar cat and in fact he was friends with Private P.  Well he pops hot and gets arrested for statutory.  He was gone two weeks later.  Wild time. 

This wasn't even bad.  A TRP had it a whole lot worse.  B TRP had a PSG, who was going to be their 1SG in about a week get a DUI.  That night I even saw the dude at the Dropkick Murphy's concert. 

The wildest one though was a guy SPC SJ, my last week I get a call from CID saying this guy needs to come down there.  I drive him there, probably a dumb idea but he needed to get there.  The agent tells me what's up and I'm like wtf.  This guy was a decent worker when guided by a solid NCO and a really good MATV driver.  Well, he came over from another BN's recce plt.  Let's just say said BN's recce plt wasn't known to be full of top performers and they in fact got into a lot of shady shit.  Well this dude was supposed to be on paternity leave, his last night he's at the club with one of his friends from his old unit.  Well his buddy gets kicked out of the club, grabs his piece from the vic and shoots into the crowd.  Someone in the crowd returns fire and SJ drives the getaway vehicle to the post hospital of all places instead of say the ER down the street and leaving his buddy at the BK.

All of these things happened in the Zero Tolerance of Character Issues Era of the early-mid 2010s.


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## Kaldak (Apr 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> The Leatherman will be found, Thigpen did



Unless he plans to end himself with it. He seems very unstable from my view. I hope it is not the case, but this is a messed up young individual.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

It had been a long day.  Faith backtracked everywhere he had gone that morning, but did not find his Leatherman.  It only really had sentimental value, but he was annoyed that he managed to replace it.  By the time he got back to the office that night, the only other person there was the specialist manning the company CQ desk.

“Hey sir, Private Thigpen from Headquarters Company came by looking for you, about 20 minutes ago,” that night’s CQ clerk, Specialist Eager, said.

“Thanks, Eager,” Faith replied. “Did he say what he wanted?”

“No sir, he didn’t want to leave a message, or his phone number.”

“OK, thanks.” Faith sighed. Well, whatever Thigpen wanted, Faith wasn’t about to spend the rest of the night tracking down a private in another company. That night after work Faith looked in his Truck and in his couch for his Leatherman but couldn’t find it. That kind of sucked, but if his blade didn’t turn up, it wouldn’t be the first time he’d lost one.

Faith hit the sack early that night, after a light dinner and a couple of beers.  He was jarred from sleep at about 0300 by the ringing of his cell phone.  He answered it right before voice mail kicked in.  “Sir, this is Staff Duty.  There was an incident in the Headquarters Company barracks last night.  They need an officer to do a room inventory,” the voice on the other end of the line informed him.

“F’ing Headquarters,” Faith thought.  Faith was confused.  Calling in an officer to do a barracks inventory was standard practice anytime a Soldier went AWOL… but normally they never called someone in to do the inventory in the middle of the night.  And besides, if a guy is AWOL at 0300 he’s still going to be AWOL at 0900, so why rush?

“I’m in Delta Company,” Faith stated grumpily. “Call one of Headquarters Company’s officers to do it.”

“Sir, Sergeant Major said to call you specifically,” replied the voice on the other end of the line.

Well, that was different. Faith felt his level of concern rise. “OK, what is going on?” he inquired.

“Don’t know sir, they just asked for me to call you and ask you to come down right away.“

Well, that wasn’t particularly helpful. “Can you at least tell me the room number?”

“Headquarters Wing, Room 425. First Sergeant and the command sergeant major will meet you there, sir.”

“Roger.”

Faith was tired, grumpy, and deeply annoyed.  Because he lived in the Bachelor Officer Quarters, he was less than five minutes from the company area.  And because of this fact of geography, he was frequently called in when things required something “officer-y.”  “We have a staff duty officer roster for a reason,” he grumbled to himself as he drove in.  “Headquarters Company needs to start handling its own fucking problems.”

Whatever happened in Headquarters Company, it was definitely something very bad.  There was a fire truck, and ambulance, and two military police cars, lights flashing, parked on the street.  As Faith parked, two medical technicians were loading a man on a stretcher into the ambulance.  He was not moving, and they did not appear to be in a hurry.  So either whatever happened wasn’t life threatening, or… the man was already dead.  “Probably just alcohol poisoning,” Faith thought.  “They’ll get him to the hospital, pump his stomach, and he’ll wake up this afternoon with the mother of all hangovers.  Back at PT on Monday morning.”

Faith made his way to the Headquarters wing of the barracks and climbed the steps up to the fourth floor.  

Faith couldn’t help but notice that this was the cleanest, tidiest barracks room he had ever been in. Everything was in its place. Everything was “dress-right, dress.” He was impressed. “Looks like Headquarters really got its act together,” Faith thought.

The Headquarters Company first sergeant and the battalion sergeant major in the hallway, well into an intense conversation.  They saw Faith and their conversation stopped abruptly, as if they didn’t want him to hear what they were talking about.  “That was weird,” Faith thought as he moved into the barracks room.  Military police and civilian lab technicians moved through the area, which for a barracks room was rather spacious.  A lab tech?  Maybe someone in the barracks got busted for drugs or something. One of the techs carried a clear plastic evidence bag.  In it was a familiar-looking silver Leatherman-style multi-tool.   The blade was extended and was missing a piece near the tip.  It was also covered in blood.

Faith stopped the lab tech that was carrying the bag with the Leatherman.  “Hey, I’m Lieutenant Faint, and I’m pretty sure that’s mine,” he said.

“Not anymore sir,” the tech responded. “Now it’s evidence.” That sounded ominous. Faith was annoyed, but there wasn’t a lot he could do. “OK, fine. I’m here to do the inventory.” he asked.

“First Sergeant is over there,” the other man said, indicating the attached bathroom. We’re done processing the scene and you can start your inventory there, if you like.”

Wait, “processing the scene?” Of an AWOL? What an odd choice of words…

Faith nodded and made his way into the bathroom. The floors and bathroom were streaked with blood. As he approached the bathroom, Faith noticed that Delta Company’s First Sergeant was there, on his knees, helping to clean up the blood. “Hey First Sergeant,” Faith said, as cheerfully as he could. The other man did not respond.

“If I didn’t know better,” Faith thought, “I’d say First Sergeant had been crying.”  It was also really, really odd that the first sergeant for Delta Company would be here, for something related to Headquarters Company, and that he’d be cleaning up the mess.  That was definitely not his job.  But maybe First Sergeant knew this guy somehow, or he didn’t want Headquarters Company’s soldiers to have to clean up what used to be one of their buddies.

The bathroom was like the barracks room:  immaculate.  Besides the blood on the floor, there was only one thing that Faith noticed was out of order:  scrawled on the mirror in deep green cammo stick were the words, “CAN’T DO ANYTHING.”

And then it all made sense.


-Fin


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## Cookie_ (Apr 19, 2020)

Well, cant say that wasn't telegraphed for anyone who's (sadly) be in long enough to have seen it happen first hand. Could almost do a whole case study on the fallout and guilt that goes with something like this.

I've had two instances where a soldier reached out to one of their NCOs, didn't get a response, and ended it.

The first time, the soldier called their NCO, but their NCO wasn't able to talk because her child was throwing a temper tantrum; they made plans to have a movie marathon the next day, but the soldier hung themselves that night.

In the other instance, the soldier called their NCO on a saturday evening, only for their NCO to say "I'm at the bar, you can talk to me on Monday." The soldier jumped out a window not long after (from what I was told of the event by the NCO they called).

5 minutes with someone can be all it takes sometimes to steer them away from the edge like that.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 19, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> And then it all made sense.


I disagree that it all makes sense,





Marauder06 said:


> One of the techs carried a clear plastic evidence bag. In it was a familiar-looking silver Leatherman-style multi-tool. The blade was extended and was missing a piece near the tip. It was also covered in blood.
> 
> Faith stopped the lab tech that was carrying the bag with the Leatherman. “Hey, I’m Lieutenant Faint, and I’m pretty sure that’s mine,” he said.
> 
> “Not anymore sir,” the tech responded. “Now it’s evidence.” That sounded ominous. Faith was annoyed, but there wasn’t a lot he could do. “OK, fine. I’m here to do the inventory.” he asked.


Come on Faith.  Are you really that dense that seeing your missing multitool covered with blood in an evidence bag would garner no other reaction than "annoyed"?




Marauder06 said:


> As he approached the bathroom, Faith noticed that Delta Company’s First Sergeant was there, on his knees, helping to clean up the blood. “*Hey First Sergeant,” Faith said, as cheerfully as he could.*


Argh!  The young LT gets a "fail" in situational awareness here.

To be clear, the study itself was easily one of my most enjoyable to participate in, it was very very will written @Marauder06 .  But after investing all of this time there is just too much left too much unsaid:

-  Did Thigpen kill himself? (with a multitool?)
-  Did Thigpen snap and kill someone else with the Multitool?
-  Did someone kill Thigpen with the multitool?

At a minimum we deserve some type of wrap up to Thigpen's story - unless we are just supposed to assume that he slit his wrists with Faith's blade, and then what type of message is he sending the LT?



Cookie_ said:


> Could almost do a whole case study on the fallout and guilt that goes with something like this.



I'd have to believe that something like that would fuck with his head for the rest of his life.

Well done, Mara.  You really had me invested on this one.


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 19, 2020)

I cared a lot about my Soldiers, have really good relationships with many of them still to this day.  I couldn't imagine what is going through his mind right now, he's delirious because it's like 0300.  One thing I hated about how the MPs worked these days was if a Soldier was arrested with a DUI you'd have to pick them up the same day they were charged.  For whatever reason it was always unit release in my time.  

This goes back to Knox, I had been the PL three weeks at the time maybe less.  I went to the MP station three separate times.  One was DV (a female soldier was beating her Infantry husband)-10AM Saturday Morning, One was a DUI-was called literally at 330AM.  Then late in the afternoon that Sunday a Soldier was a witness to DV and wasn't cooperating with the MPs, of course they threatened him with shit and said they'd charge him as an accessory or somewhat.  

Right before I got to Bliss the CSM who'd been fooling around with a female Soldier took his own life. ODd on anti-freeze. Apparently was top performer in the BDE. Same CSM that vouched for the Soldier that was in my PLT that had a DUI. 

A bit after I went to DIV HQ, the SQDN had an NCO commit suicide. Just promoted to Sergeant, about 18 mos earlier he and his wife had a shouting match and the MPs were called. He was flagged for awhile under the Lautenberg amendment even though there were no charges and he'd gone through all of the diversion counseling. Not exactly sure what the issue was, but once the flag was initiated by the CMD team it took help from DIV S1 to lift. This was a pain in the ass every month when went through Flags and USR. It wasn't fixed until after I executed handover as S1.

Some things are hard to understand, this one[Thigpen]?  Well I guess there were plenty of signals.


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## Andoni (Apr 19, 2020)

I don't think anything could have been done differently to save Thigpen from himself. I think he would have killed himself before they sent him home at any point.


I think that if even if they tried to get him into ASAP, the end result would have been the same.


Thigpen was on drugs. He had a bad attitude. He was given extra help and was the subject of genuine concern by Leaders. He was under emotionally and intellectually developed and stunted in every way. He should have not made it passed MEPS, but he did.

This is not his current leaders fault. They worried and took action daily about him, and treated him humanely.

And now, Thigpen's cleaned his room, stolen a knife with sentimental value, and attacked the person (Lt. Faith) who went the extra mile for him, a second time. Like, when he bitch slapped Spc. Stringer, the closest thing to a friend he had, and everyone has literally blood on their hands. I feel bad for his leaders and squad.

Yes, it's sad that Thigpen had no friends, but that is not the only sad thing that happens in the military.

Instead of no friends, it could have been Thigpen was unable to learn a language and failing. He could have ruined his life by choosing the language he did. Or, he could signed up for a job and realized during AIT it was a horrible fit for his personality, or he could have had to do 1.5 years of language school as a native speaker, because he fell asleep during the DLPT, two days out of Basic Training and didn't wake up until it was over and rocked out on paper. Or he could have fallen in love with a ROK Soldier and been pressured into two abortions after being an MST victim to a supervisor, and having to testify.

It may sound super motivated, but the United States is the most powerful military in the world and it's a demanding job, across all ranks and every environment.

Suicide is a problem that affects everyone and there are all kinds of reasons to feel sad or bad for people, but any way you slice it, suicide on active duty is the wrong answer.

Just because Thigpen didn't access formal suicide resources, his leaders responded to him and led him, and I do not believe left him behind. They tried to help him- they intervened on his behalf. There were multiple interventions. I just don't think anything could have saved him. They were not telling him to kill himself. They were not harassing or abusing him. They were leading him.

When Lt. Faith tried to talk to him, Thigpen refused to engage.

After you do the right thing, sometimes you can't save someone from themselves.

Had they tried to chapter him earlier, he probably would have done the same thing then, he did now. If he had been placed on suicide watch, he would have likely become extremely suicidal and maybe homicidal.

I have two examples that come to mind, and I'm trying to shorten them to post.

One has a good outcome, the other has a less good outcome, but even the bad is not as bad as the outcome for Thigpen's leaders.

They experience may moral injury because of this, and by all accounts, Thigpen has a bonafide personality disorder. They may believe they left Thigpen behind, when actually, he made choices.

Early in the case study I was someone who said to overtrain the military into him, but I changed my mind. I feel stupid I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I knew someone like Thigpen. He shouldn't have been let through MEPS. He didn't kill himself. He made it to becoming an NCO, and then went to sleep on Sentry duty during war and people died. It makes me sick. He rolled out his mat,  the green thin one, that he should not have had with him in the first place, laid down, and went to sleep during a twelve hour period during OEF near the end of the earlier years. Makes me fucking sick still.

Everyone thought he was basically a good enough guy, just extremely slow. Someone who slipped through. Slipped through becoming an NCO.  Had his clearance temporarily suspended when he married a a person with mental health problems. He got it back. Then, He got put on guard duty. He went to sleep. People died. One of THE WORST things anyone who saw, ever saw. It's taken me many years to even consider mentioning. Scarring.

He is a shit bag, a buddy fucker, and needs to die, just like Thigpen. He should have killed himself.

I'll tell you what happened to him. It makes me sick to write about him 16 years later.

I never saw him again. I'm not saying he was killed or experienced harm. I'm saying, those around him, had to live with what happened, keep going, and he was immediately taken away, and besides a mutual hatred of him, and someone filling out a 4187 requesting UCMJ specifically for the death penalty, multiple times, nobody ever spoke of him and I personally never saw him again.

And, like Thigpen, months earlier, he did respond to good leaders.

I thought he had to be good at something, we just had to find it. It wasn't even my lane. He was 2 ranks above me.

And still, for some reason, I thought maybe if Thigpen was reached in the beginning, he could have been made into an okay soldier. That was stupid.

Thigpen had a bonafide personality disorder, he shouldn't have been let through MEPS, and while it's very sad that death occurred, I think it's for the best because he would have probably gotten others killed. It's not just cliche bullshit.

It's not his leader's fault. They tried daily with him. I hope they don't carry his actions with them, just because they care.

I believe they did everything they could.

Edited: to correct broken English- removed "?" from "I'll tell you what happened to him?"


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## Andoni (Apr 19, 2020)

Goddamn. I apologize that's so long. This case study just hit a nerve. I really enjoyed it.


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## DA SWO (Apr 19, 2020)

Using the Lt's knife was a bullshit move.

I was working with a suicidal soldier who did kill herself.
Prior to killing herself she set a shi train in motion that burned those who did everything possible to be nice to her, including me.
I am very selective who I help now because of her, Soldiers are getting fucked because she burned those willing to help.
Pigpen was no different.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

"The Rest of the Story" Part 1

This case study is loosely based on real events and was inspired by two different conversations we had here on ShadowSpear back in 2017. One was an argument about whether an Infantry officer “had to be” Ranger-qualified to be successful (and the relative merits of the school), and one on bullying, I think it was specifically about the idiot NCO in the 82nd who hit one of this troops in the chest with a large wooden mallet during a promotion ceremony.

The lessons I intended to impart in this story include the following:

               -the importance of the officer/NCO relationship

               -the importance and value of deliberate periodic counseling

               -positive and negative aspects of unit culture, such as the use (and abuse) of nicknames

               -the need to adjust leadership style to the needs and abilities of different troops

               -not everyone makes it as a Soldier, despite your best efforts

               -despite personal setbacks (e.g. failure at Ranger School), it’s still possible to be a good leader if you’re competent, genuine, and caring

               -risk/reward of doing the right thing

               -perceptions of people based on what they wear on their uniform

               -dangers of social isolation

               -the threat of military suicide

                -you often get only one chance to do the right thing


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Using the Lt's knife was a bullshit move.
> 
> I was working with a suicidal soldier who did kill herself.
> Prior to killing herself she set a shi train in motion that burned those who did everything possible to be nice to her, including me.
> ...



I agree. I meant to put into the story that Thigpen ended up on suicide watch and all all of his own weapons/knives taken, I think that would have made more sense than him swiping Faith's.

Then again, maybe seeing Faith's was the final trigger.

What do you think makes more sense?


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## Kaldak (Apr 19, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Thigpen ended up on suicide watch and all all of his own weapons/knives taken, I think that would have made more sense than him swiping Faith's.



This makes more sense than seeing Faith's as the catalyst.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 19, 2020)

How does a suicide watch work in the US Army? Here you'd be put into a cell/locked hospital room, given clothes to wear and you ain't going anywhere.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> This makes more sense than seeing Faith's as the catalyst.



OK I'll make that change.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> How does a suicide watch work in the US Army? Here you'd be put into a cell/locked hospital room, given clothes to wear and you ain't going anywhere.



So it depends on the severity.  If someone made ideations or maybe we might suspect they'll do something stupid, the practice back in the day was to confine them to the barracks and make them physically check in from like 0600 to 2300.  If we were really worried, they got a cot in the staff duty office.  If we were really-really worried, they got involuntarily taken to the hospital.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 19, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> OK here it is.  I added one picture and made a few edits in the later pages.  Nothing earlier than p. 77 is changed.  There will be no more changes.


Easily my favorite one.  Again, very well done!


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## ThunderHorse (Apr 19, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> How does a suicide watch work in the US Army? Here you'd be put into a cell/locked hospital room, given clothes to wear and you ain't going anywhere.


They went to 11 West which is a wing of the post hospital at Bliss.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2020)

"The Rest of the Story" Part 2

OK, so this is the part where I separate fact from fiction.  To begin with, this story is semi-autobiographical.  Some of the events really happened, but most of the story is either completely invented or greatly exaggerated for dramatic effect.  Much of the Sergeant Ellery character is accurate.  Most of the rest, especially the portrayal of LT Faith, is mostly made up.

All of the names are pseudos, or are real names of people who were in my platoon but are combined with multiple personalities into one character.  And of course some of the characters in the story, like Sergeant Manners, are completely fabricated.  Some of the names have significance and some don’t.

Here’s a picture of the real “Sergeant First Class Ellery” (right) and me at Fort Campbell back in… 1996 or so when we were in the 101st Airborne Division.  This is right after a rehearsal for a division change of command, which is why we had rifles with bayonets.  This was well before the era of camera phones, I didn’t take a lot of pictures back then.  This might be the only picture I have of the two of us from when we worked together.  This man changed my life, and set the standard in my mind for every other NCO I ever worked with.



I came into the Army under the “branch detail” program and was an infantry platoon leader in the mid-1990s. I did show up without a Ranger Tab, which was a big deal, but my first battalion commander also didn’t have a tab. He later went on to become a three-star general, so…

In fact, I worked for three infantry officers who went on to wear multiple stars. Including LTG Bolger, there were LTG Russel Honore and GEN Robert Brown.

Anyway, because I was non-Ranger qualified, they would not assign me to a “line” platoon in a rifle company, but instead put me in D Co, which at the time was the heavy weapons company. This was actually a blessing, as it was a “specialty” platoon that was normally a second assignment after successful time on the line. But it meant that I was riding instead of walking when we went to the field, which was often; it meant I had few Soldiers to supervise, and because of the technical aspects involved, 11H troops tended to be slightly more intellectual than the average 11B, which suited me because I consider myself a slightly intellectual guy. And, I got to have Sergeant Ellery as my platoon sergeant.

I did complete the Mortar Leader Course at Fort Benning prior to reporting to Fort Campbell, and I did ask to be a Mortar Platoon Leader. But they already had a guy in that job when I showed up, so I went to D Co.

I did run into one of my classmates from Georgia Military College who I know got commissioned, but he was in our battalion as a Spec-4. I was sure there was some sordid story there, but it was simply a legit dual-component thing; he wanted to be active but he held a Reserve commission and couldn’t get an active one, so he enlisted. It’s a weird thing, but it happens. When I was in JSOC, the command sergeant major was a captain in the Reserves. He liked to joke that he was the oldest captain in the Army… and he probably was.

We did have a “Pigpen”-like character in one of the other platoons, and I did walk up on some of the Soldiers in that platoon scrubbing Private Pigpen down with green scrub pads, Comet, and the long brushes we used to clean the mud off of our trucks, but it was after I was in the unit for several months, not on the first day I was there. I broke it up and sent everyone on their way. Nobody threatened or intimidated me over it. And I definitely didn’t take Pigpen into our platoon.

The other incident with Thigpen and 2nd Platoon involving the platoon sergeant simply never happened, that was purely for dramatic effect. I’ve never been treated like that by Soldiers or NCOs. In fact, I’ve only had three people want to physically fight me over the course of my entire career, and they’ve all been officers. Although two of them were platoon leaders with me in D 1/327…

The “blood pinning” thing that SFC Ellery did is accurate, and he did promote me to 1LT. Back in the mid-90s there was a crackdown on hazing because so many people were doing so much stupid shit, but blood pinning was still pretty widespread. Many years later I returned to Fort Campbell when I was assigned to 5th Group and then the 160th SOAR. I made MAJ when I was in the 160th and MSG(R) Ellery was still in the area and was able to come to my promotion party, which meant a lot to me.

My then-girlfriend, now-wife did do the rope climb thing, and she did get hit in the face playing basketball with the platoon. But it was much less dramatic than what is portrayed in the story.

I was, and still am, very good at Hearts and Spades and I would play regularly with my troops in the van going back and forth to our White Cycle taskings and when we were deployed to Egypt for six month.  I am a much more gracious loser than winner when it comes to cards, and was well known in the platoon for my shit-talking.  It was a source of great frustration for my troops that the LT was good at “Joe” cards games, and I loved it.

Many years after the events in this story, I did have a Soldier try to commit suicide with a Leatherman.  When I was a company commander in the Second Infantry Division in Korea, we had a female soldier who self-recommended for mental health due to suicidal thoughts.  We sent her down to the psych ward in Seoul, where the psych docs said that the Soldier was in desperate need of an immediate chapter.  I was sad to hear that because she was a good Soldier.  But hey, they’re the docs, not me.  I started the separation paperwork, only to have the doc call me a couple days later like “hey, she’s fine now, come get your girl.”  We went down and got her, but I thought the whole thing was sketchy.  I thought I should go through with the chapter…  At any rate, I restricted her access to firearms (not a big deal, we were an MI company anyway) and had the 1SG and her platoon sergeant toss her room for any weapons and anything she might be able to use to hurt herself.  After a long talk with her, she convinced me to put a hold on her paperwork, that she was getting better and needed to stay in the Army.  I felt like we should separate her, but the docs recommend I let her stay.  A day or two later, she bought a Leatherman at the little PX we had and cut herself up with it.  She called our chaplain before she bled out (I found out later that he made anti-suicide pacts with all of the troubled troops, definitely worked in this case).  That was the last time that I let “the experts” over-rule my professional judgment.

The “birthday beatdown” thing happened largely as portrayed in the story, although it was a different platoon sergeant (I went through five platoon sergeants, including Ellery twice). I don’t think Sergeant Ellery would have allowed those kinds of shenanigans. And of course Thigpen wasn’t involved.

For the record, I’ve never been in a bar fight.

I don’t remember anyone in the battalion killing themselves while I was there. As far as I know Private Thigpen left the unit alive… although he probably did catch a chapter, or at least a bar to re-enlistment. Or maybe he turned out to be a good troop, I don’t know. I don’t even remember his real name.

I was a platoon leader in the same platoon for over two years. It was the mid-90s so the deployment opportunities were limited. We did deploy to Egypt for six months as part of the Multinational Force and Observers mission, which was awesome. When we returned I was made the Battalion S1—a captain’s position—of an Infantry battalion… as a tabless 1LT. You can imagine how that want.

But that is a story for another day.

THE END.

…really.


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## Steve1839 (Apr 20, 2020)

Truth be told, I was a tabless rifle platoon leader in God's own airborne battalion in Italy 40+ years ago...I got caught up in an end of the fiscal year situation where there weren't enough Ranger slots to go around and I was a reserve commissioned officer...did alright, probably wound up in Italy because I was an SF qualified master parachutist.  I went to an SF battalion in Germany as a detachment XO where it didn't matter until a group commander came along who said all detachment commanders were to be Ranger tabbed...in a story too bizarre to recount, the battalion picked up twelve Ranger school slots and I got one of them...I graduated from the course and when I got back, there were guys commanding detachments that weren't SF qualified, much less Ranger tabbed...different Army back then, but I did get a detachment and life went on from there...as far as the worth of Ranger school for a new lieutenant....in my mind the jury is out on that...


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## BloodStripe (Apr 21, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> "The Rest of the Story" Part 1
> 
> This case study is loosely based on real events and was inspired by two different conversations we had here on ShadowSpear back in 2017. One was an argument about whether an Infantry officer “had to be” Ranger-qualified to be successful (and the relative merits of the school), and one on bullying, I think it was specifically about the idiot NCO in the 82nd who hit one of this troops in the chest with a large wooden mallet during a promotion ceremony.
> 
> ...




Working for the military as a civilian, it's incredible how different the culture is for DOD civilians vs active duty counterparts. That could just be in my career field, but even at my last unit where there was a very strong push to make all of us feel a part of the team, I'm amazed at how many people treat it as just any old job. They show up at 630 and are out the door at 3. They don't want that "family" feel that being part of an infantry platoon gives. 

As evidenced, constant counseling is good for growth and yet we civilians don't really do that either. We have our performance evaluations but nobody really puts much into them. 

My career field is also comprised mostly of non-Veterans. I have found that the military is the best at approaching people with different leadership styles to see what works best for that subordinate. Because most people in my career field typically start working for the Government just after graduating from college, they don't have broad experience working for a bunch of different supervisors to build this approach.


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## 0699 (Apr 21, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Working for the military as a civilian, it's incredible how different the culture is for DOD civilians vs active duty counterparts. That could just be in my career field, but even at my last unit where there was a very strong push to make all of us feel a part of the team, I'm amazed at how many people treat it as just any old job. They show up at 630 and are out the door at 3. They don't want that "family" feel that being part of an infantry platoon gives.


I never considered DOD civilians to be part of the team.  I don't remember ever being impressed by a single one.  Most of them seemed more interested in promotions, kissing butts, or their departure time from the office.  Some of them were truly a'holes who thought that because they were a retired MGySgt or GS-13 their shit didn't stink.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> I never considered DOD civilians to be part of the team.  I don't remember ever being impressed by a single one.  Most of them seemed more interested in promotions, kissing butts, or their departure time from the office.  Some of them were truly a'holes who thought that because they were a retired MGySgt or GS-13 their shit didn't stink.



It's interesting that you have never considered civilians part of the team. The Marine Corps calls their civilians "Civilian Marines" and even makes them stand in formation. The only time I dealt with civilians while I was AD was at CIF, which we all know is the devil. Now that I'm a GS employee, I have only experienced that entitlement from one person and they were a GS14 who most people did not care for personally or professionally. On the flip side, I have a few cell phone numbers in my personal cell phone for SES's,  all of whom I have met in a professional setting and I have never seen them come across as holier than thou. I've witnessed civilians give up a big chunk of their life deploying to shit holes all over the world to go wherever their command needs them in support of a mission. I'm obviously bias, but civilians should absolutely be a part of the team.


ETA: New Employees


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## 0699 (Apr 21, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> It's interesting that you have never considered civilians part of the team. *The Marine Corps calls their civilians "Civilian Marines"* and even makes them stand in formation. The only time I dealt with civilians while I was AD was at CIF, which we all know is the devil. Now that I'm a GS employee, I have only experienced that entitlement from one person and they were a GS14 who most people did not care for personally or professionally. On the flip side, I have a few cell phone numbers in my personal cell phone for SES's,  all of whom I have met in a professional setting and I have never seen them come across as holier than thou. I've witnessed civilians give up a big chunk of their life deploying to shit holes all over the world to go wherever their command needs them in support of a mission. I'm obviously bias, but civilians should absolutely be a part of the team.
> 
> ETA: New Employees


"The Marine Corps" calls them "civilian Marines", but the Marines don't.  You and I both know the difference.  Most of the civilian employees that made a big stink about being "civilian Marines" wouldn't survive three hours at PI.

And we obviously grew up in different locations, as I've never seen a "civilian Marine" in formation unless they were getting an award.

I'm glad you've had a different experience with DOD civilians.  You obviously aren't as jaded as I am.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> "The Marine Corps" calls them "civilian Marines", but the Marines don't.  You and I both know the difference.  Most of the civilian employees that made a big stink about being "civilian Marines" wouldn't survive three hours at PI.
> 
> And we obviously grew up in different locations, as I've never seen a "civilian Marine" in formation unless they were getting an award.
> 
> I'm glad you've had a different experience with DOD civilians.  You obviously aren't as jaded as I am.



I've never worked for our Corps as a civilian and only know they do because I know of a few who worked at MC Systems Command and hated that they had to. And it's a marketing gimmick to call them that but they do. We all know we are PR masters.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 21, 2020)

The Army considers DA civilians a critical part of the overall team.  Even in JSOC we had a lot of civilians.  Good civilians.  Taking the same risks and doing some of the same jobs we were.  I was in Afghanistan when our contract 'gators had to switch over to DA Civ.  Same job, paycheck just came from someone else.  Overall, most of my experiences with DoD civilians were positive.

Army Civilian Careers


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