# Any way for Marine pilots to serve Marine Special Operations?



## DC1220 (Oct 31, 2014)

Currently, i'm in college and i'm getting ready to commission in about three years or so.  I've been contemplating this question for a while and i feel like it's time i finally ask.  Is there a way for Marine Pilots to serve in Marine Special Operations. If not, Hopefully the Marine Corps will create some unit where they utilize Ospreys in Special operation missions in the future ( Who knows what will happen in the future) .  This question is just out of curiosity and research.  I'm still doing research on becoming a pilot for the Marine Corps.

 If anyone has any info please let me know, all is appreciated.

Thanks


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## DC1220 (Oct 31, 2014)

I got some input in my intro and i want to thank those who posted on my intro on your advice


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## AWP (Oct 31, 2014)

Currently no. There was some talk, but you can find all of this on the Web. Go rotary wing and roll the dice. Otherwise you're looking at the S-3 Air, an aviator doing a ground tour who sets up CAS, airlift....anything aircraft related. I'd be surprised if the Corps took existing aviation assets and chopped those to MARSOC, but anything could happen.

The Navy has two squadrons of SH-60's and we have a recent thread or two on them.

I spent a year in NROTC over 20 years ago. One thing that I doubt has changed: those guys were rabid about being Marine officers first, aviators second.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

thanks for the reply, you're definitely right about that how marines are first and foremost marines, i mean i've done alot of research so far on the Marine Corps and there is probably so much more i need to cover( most of it i'll learn in the corps) but once i heard of positions where pilots can even serve with MARSOC as Forward Air Controllers, but i never found any information on how to become one, or any details on whether this is possible or any other options Marine pilots can do with MARSOC or other branches of Marine Corps Special Ops.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

I also heard of the plans about MARSOC Aviation when Clark was still commander of MARSOC( ironic how he was an aviator yet didnt push for it, but money always has a sense of humor) Even With Amos as Commandant who was also a marine Aviator, im just surprised it never happened.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 1, 2014)

I'm just going to throw this out there...

You are in college AND you are looking at possibly going into aviation, yet you can't adhere to proper sentence structure?  Details are key in both worlds.

Good luck.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

I'm sorry about that. I type pretty fast, so i'll try to type slower so i wont make anymore grammatical mistakes


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## Teufel (Nov 1, 2014)

There are no plans to create a MARSOC aviation component.  Keep in mind that the Marine Corps is pretty small.  We really can't afford to chop over that structure to MARSOC right now, especially with all the personnel cuts we just got through.


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## Teufel (Nov 1, 2014)

All the MSOBs do have forward air controllers though and it is possible to be an aviator attached to a company and pushed down to a team to call for air.  That's a crap shoot with the monitor (career field manager) though.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

Forward Air Controller for an MSOB looks like my best path toward Special Operations in the Marines after a couple of years of flying. I'll probably figure out how to become one when I get into the Corps.  I understand that Special Operations mainly use the 160th SOAR for their aviation unit in missions, but most of those pilots are CWOs in the Army. I've also heard that MARSOC and RECON will use  aircraft provided by the MEUs for some of their missions.  Maybe there is a way for Marine Pilots to fly for 160th SOAR, but I don't know anything about that or if that's even possible.

@Teufel  like you said, the Marines are cutting pretty hard with money. We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the future.

If anyone else  has any more information on Forward Air Controllers for a MSOB ,other opportunities a Marine Pilot can do to serve in Special Operations, or even on the subject of Marine pilots and SOAR, please reply, all replies are appreciated. 

Thanks


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## CDG (Nov 1, 2014)

If your overarching desire is to be SOF, why don't you become an Infantry officer and then attempt to become a MARSOC officer down the road?  Why the pilot route?


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## Teufel (Nov 1, 2014)

I have met some guys (senior officers) who have flown for the 160th.  Well they were over there.  I don't know if they were flying or in the S-3 shop.  We used to have an officer at the 75th Ranger Regiment S-3 shop once upon a time.  I don't know if we do anymore or not.  Both positions were LNO billets.  

An MSOB FAC is not a special operator.  He is a battalion air officer.  He helps train all the team level Raider JTACs.  It's also a highly sought after billet obviously.  Putting your money on becoming a MARSOC FAC is like putting your money on going to NASA space camp and hoping to graduate as an astronaut.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

I've always wanted to be a pilot. Right now I'm just exploring other options that I can do in the Marine Corps as a Pilot


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

Thanks for clarifying, i always thought those FAC guys with MARSOC were Special Operators, If only there was a way for pilots of branches other than the Army to have the ability to fly for 160th SOAR, maybe  there is...also can you elaborate on what an S-3 shop is.

Thanks guys


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

DC1220 said:


> I've always wanted to be a pilot. Right now I'm just exploring other options that I can do in the Marine Corps as a Pilot


 specifically in Special operations


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## AWP (Nov 1, 2014)

Hold on a second.

You are a freshman or sophomore in college? Are you also in an NROTC/ ROTC/ AFROTC program?

You want us to tell you what an S-3 shop is? I'm guessing you aren't in any form of ROTC, thus....you don't even know if you'll be selected for OCS. If you are in ROTC and don't know what the S-3 is, your military professors have failed you. Utterly.

Have you even done any research on this topic? Before you say "Yes" then you clearly didn't Google s-3 shop Marine Corps because if you had then you be ovewhelmed with information. You could also answer your own question about special operations aviation through Google, because the existence of those units is not classified.


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## BloodStripe (Nov 1, 2014)

I suggest you look to joining a different branch than.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

Yes I know what an s-3 is. No I'm not in NROTC.. I'm currently in a community College and my school does not have any NROTC so I'm working on a transfer...I spent four years in JROTC so I clearly know what an s-3 is, it's an operations officer...I was confused because I've never heard it put in that term...I have conducted three years of research in this topic... and I have googled special operations aviation...I just said it was the 160th SOAR..I'm sorry if I made it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about


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## DA SWO (Nov 1, 2014)

SOTGWarrior said:


> I suggest you look to joining a different branch than.


I have to agree.
Do you want to be a Marine Officer, or a Special Operations Aviator?
Answer that question first, then look at which branch to join.


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## AWP (Nov 1, 2014)

@DC1220 Look, you have term goals and I understand that. We need those both as motivation and to keep us on track. The problem right now is that I don't think you understand the path and your knowledge of the "end game" is limited. In other words, you're planning a trip and making it up as you go along.

Think of it like this: would you drive from CA to FL without gassing up your car, checking the tires, planning rest stops, gas stops, etc.? Your plan in FL is "go to the beach" but that's kind of vague, right?

That's what we see in your posts above because that's what you're communicating.

As my friend SOWT just asked, do you want to be a Marine Officer or a Special Operations Aviator? Answer that and reverse plan. Let's say the answer is "Marine Officer." Got it, check, roger, are you qualified for a commission? If so, how do you earn a commission? Answer that and then move on to the process which places you in a position to earn your commission. Topics like degrees, GPA, extracurricular activites, physical fitness, etc. Problem solve and fill in the gaps. Once you have those gaps THEN you can worry about asking questions, if you need to, because now you'll have a foundation of knowledge. Otherwise, you just pulled into a rest stop in Arizona and asked us if there are any good places to eat in Mississippi.


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

I'm just going to have to take it little by little. I've always been set on becoming a marine officer... but I've recently gotten into Special operations. I'm just trying to create my path so I can have a solid baseline on what I have to do to be in special operations and a pilot


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## BloodStripe (Nov 1, 2014)

Why not be a Marine Infantry Officer, try out to be a MARSOC officer and obtain a private pilots license?  Why do you want to be an officer and why special operations?


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## DC1220 (Nov 1, 2014)

My initial plan was to become a marine pilot and then fly commercially... special operations is something I've looked to to for so long... I've known many RECON Marines and some MARSOC Raiders they always tell me that special operations was the best job they've ever had..I want to have that experience so I can share a bond with them that only a selected few have the privilege of sharing


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 1, 2014)

DC1220 said:


> I've always wanted to be a pilot. Right now I'm just exploring other options that I can do in the Marine Corps as a Pilot





DC1220 said:


> I'm just going to have to take it little by little. I've always been set on becoming a marine officer... but I've recently gotten into Special operations. I'm just trying to create my path so I can have a solid baseline on what I have to do to be in special operations and a pilot



...sigh...

Over the years I've read hundreds of posts similar to yours, and they all end with the same basic simple advice:
-  figure out which service you want to join
-  figure out want job or jobs you'd want to do within that service other than "special anything"
-  move on from there

Based on the real, honest to goodness odds of a man first getting the opportunity, then getting selected, then making it through training withing being dropped, injured, or quitting, I will never for the life of me understand why folks join a particular branch with their only motivation being that they want to be "special".    I'm not questioning your heart or desire, but just based on what you've said so far, I do question if you really do know what you want. 

I visualize today's generation, surfing the net, reading though the various service websites about their particular SOF options, and narrowing it down like kids reading through the Sears catalog at Christmas.  What if you don't get what you really want for Christmas?  Better have an option or two for mom and dad to buy, otherwise it will be a long lonely winter.

I'm not trying to veer too far out of my lane, but I don't think you are understanding part of what they are trying to tell you.


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## dmcgill (Nov 1, 2014)

DC1220,

Here's my advice to you. Instead of repeatedly making yourself sound stupid on a message board, take more time and figure out what you want to do. Marine, officer, aviator, special operations aviator, special operator, FAC, whatever...there is so much open source information on the internet it is sickening (in my opinion). You can Google any of the above topics and find enough information to help you in your research and in making the right decision for your future to keep you occupied for years. Read it all. Think about it hard. Then, any dying unanswerable questions you might still have can probably be answered here. With that being said though, some things in the military you just cannot know until you commit to. It's the nature of the beast, and it's driven by desire. Find your path and see it through.

Good luck.


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## AWP (Nov 1, 2014)

DC1220 said:


> My initial plan was to become a marine pilot and then fly commercially...


 
And you've already excluded one for the other with that goal. Why? It goes back to planning.

Fly commercial rotary wing? Those jobs exist, but more are fixed wing. Fixed wing Special Operations Aviation? That's Air Force. I have a friend who is about to retire after 8 years enlisted and 12 flying Seahawks/ Blackhawks (during an exchange tour with the Army in Iraq) and he had to go through school to pay for his commercial rating...being some Sierra Hotel Navy pilot is irrelevant because of FAA requirements. So, fixed wing Marine aviation means you might land a coveted S-3 Air or FAC slot. Quickly doing the math will tell you how many of those slots exist.

At some point you have to "pays your money and takes your chances" becase you may find one goal excludes you from another OR increases already long odds.

Another point to consider: In '95 I went to a college where 20-25% of the ROTC graduates had a slot at the Navy's Primary Flight School in Pensacola. Class of '96 had almost 50% achieve the same thing. Why? Budget cutbacks saw aircrew leaving in droves. At least one Surface Warfare Officer from '94 reclassed into aviation because of the lack of pilots, but "right place, right time" for him. Also, only a certain percentage of OCS grads will see flight school because of how those slots are doled out. X % for that service's Academy, Y % for ROTC (and that's for the whole of ROTC, not on a per school basis), and Z % for OCS (again, for all classes that year, not for each class).

Sorting out a career is like a jigsaw puzzle and right now you possess about 10% of the pieces but think you know what the picture looks like.


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## DC1220 (Nov 3, 2014)

Thank you to all who have replied, I will take the information you have all given me, and include it to my research.  I know I may have sounded like an idiot at times, but I don't know everything yet, I still have a while to go and I do apologize for the small amount of information I know.  I just want to get the best answers I can get, not only from those in the special operations community, but from those who are or were in the military and have experience in the field.  I feel like my focus should be on obtaining my commission. I know it’s going to be a long time until I'll get to fly in the Marines and it's not going to be an easy road, but no matter what happens, whether I become a Special Operator or not, I will be proud not only to be a Marine, but to serve my country with honor as so many of you have done already.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 3, 2014)

None of us know "everything" yet. If you ever , one day, look around and decide you know everything; on that day you will be lost. I expect, that if you make it to the ranks of Marine Aviator, you will find that you are already in a very special place. Few make the decision to serve in our nation's miliary, just doing that brings you into a very unique brotherhood. What I guess I am trying to underline here, is to not sell short active military, in and of itself. It will demand much from you, more than some have to offer. Best of luck in your plans.


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## x SF med (Nov 3, 2014)

DC1220 said:


> Yes I know what an s-3 is. No I'm not in NROTC.. I'm currently in a community College and my school does not have any NROTC so I'm working on a transfer...I spent four years in JROTC so I clearly know what an s-3 is, it's an operations officer...I was confused because I've never heard it put in that term...I have conducted three years of research in this topic... and I have googled special operations aviation...I just said it was the 160th SOAR..I'm sorry if I made it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about



Apparently, you do not know what you are talking about, and have an attitude, to boot.  Quit arguing, use initiative to educate yourself, form cogent and well researched posts that ask for clarification rather than ... "Tell me about...."

Pay attention to your capitalization, spelling, grammar, punctuation and usage.  And no excuses about typing too fast on a mobile device.  Attention to detail and clarity of communication are key as an officer or an SOF member.


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## DC1220 (Nov 3, 2014)

Right on @Red Flag 1 

@x SF med, I will pay more attention to my grammatical errors in future posts


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