# Cell phone signal "cloaking" pouch



## coastieaet (Jul 15, 2011)

I was interested to hear other's opinions on NEMO Equipment's EMFX-47 Cell Phone Emission cloaking pouch.  I have one and it works as Rx'ed.  I use mine on the job and it certainly fits the bill for no electronic emissions.  I see a lot of relevant use for this product not only in certain "restricted" areas, but also obviously for not being unknowingly tracked.  Does anyone else have any opinions/feedback for this product?


----------



## Brill (Jul 15, 2011)

Please explain the "cloaking" as I truly am curious. 

The phone hides its location? If so, how does the network know where to route the calls?

If the network can find you, well, so can "they". If you're invisible to the network (cloaked) then "your call cannot be completed as dialed. Please hang up and try again."


----------



## mike_cos (Jul 15, 2011)

very interesting... and very interested... please explain thx..


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 15, 2011)

lindy said:


> Please explain the "cloaking" as I truly am curious.
> 
> The phone hides its location? If so, how does the network know where to route the calls?
> 
> If the network can find you, well, so can "they". If you're invisible to the network (cloaked) then "your call cannot be completed as dialed. Please hang up and try again."



Faraday cage pouch.  Turn phone off, drop in tinfoil envelope.

You could accomplish the same by tanking aluminum duct tape (the actual thin metal tape) and taping up a ziploc bag.


----------



## Dame (Jul 16, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> Faraday cage pouch. Turn phone off, drop in tinfoil envelope.
> You could accomplish the same by tanking aluminum duct tape (the actual thin metal tape) and taping up a ziploc bag.


And it wouldn't cost you $50. Anti-static bag would also work, and weigh less. State Dept is admitting that the RF chips in the new passports are not secure so putting those in the anti-stat would be a good idea IMHO.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 16, 2011)

Secure in which sense?


----------



## Brill (Jul 16, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> Faraday cage pouch.  Turn phone off, drop in tinfoil envelope.
> 
> You could accomplish the same by tanking aluminum duct tape (the actual thin metal tape) and taping up a ziploc bag.



Ah, got it. I do question who/why would this be used though. If the pouch is needed, then the phone is not. Why not just leave the phone behind?


----------



## Dame (Jul 16, 2011)

SpitfireV said:


> Secure in which sense?


Identity. Same as kind of everything else these days.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-san-francisco-cloning-rfid-passports/

Or, for the HSLD folks for whom this is an actual possibility:


> And while this is a completely remote possibility for everyday travelers…
> In 2006, a mobile security company, Flexilis, conducted an experiment in which the transponder of a partially opened e-passport *triggered an explosive planted in a trashcan when a dummy carrying the chipped passport approached the bin.* A video of the experiment was shown that year at a security conference.


http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2009/07/14/what-a-shock-your-e-passport-isnt-secure-after-all/


----------



## coastieaet (Jul 16, 2011)

I definitely recommend turning the phone off before placing it in the pouch since the phone's battery will quickly deplete since it will constantly search for a signal. The pouch stops all rf signals from going in or out of the pouch even with the phone powered on. You can test the pouch by having an active call going and placing the phone in the pouch. As soon as you drop it in there...dropped call. As soon as you pull the phone out it regains a signal and is back to normal operation. I read that this pouch was designed after a USSOCOM unit requested such a device so that they could carry a cell phone into the field without being tracked and without it setting of rf activated IEDs.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 16, 2011)

lindy said:


> Please explain the "cloaking" as I truly am curious.
> 
> The phone hides its location? If so, how does the network know where to route the calls?
> 
> If the network can find you, well, so can "they". If you're invisible to the network (cloaked) then "your call cannot be completed as dialed. Please hang up and try again."


 
The point is that phones and RFID can be used for other means, hijacked, etc.

Let's put it this way: Until my GPS and GPS tagging was disabled, my phone tagged every goddamn picture I took, with the location I took the picture.  That was a DEFAULT ON setting.  That, in itself, is information associated and attached to photographs that I do not care to have attached.  Even when GPS is off, it will correlate data for triangulation of the location of my phone. Proof shown in the location it starts up with as to "where" I am, prior to engaging GPS for mapping purposes. It's close, but not close enough and is always somewhere I haven't actually been, but is close enough for 'government work' quite literally.

We'll just ignore the whole cellphone security issue beyond that.

Now, let's look at RFID. As already shown earlier by dame, RFID attached documents and cards will answer, by design and default, any interrogation that they recieve. They pick up power from the RF sent to them, and burst back data.  Your Visa RFID fob: bam, there's your credit card. Your Passport card: bam, there's your passport data.

I mean, you don't smile for your passport picture so the facial recognition software has a good baseline to be able to pick you up... so theoretically IF that shit is employed, and someone cloned your RFID for entry at an "enhanced" border crossing in a forged passport, it'd be a massive red flag when oh say, LibraryLady tried to cross the border with my passport RFID... but if it's RFID capable and they're not using facial recognition to corrolate and/or not inspecting?

Congrats, Muhammed DerpaDurka Habib just rolled through checkpoint alpha.

Not to mention the other previously mentioned RFID bomb. I'm a good guy and I can think of all sorts of ways I could "red team" the SHIT out of that with a minimal amount of assets.

Example:
I want Boon to go boom.
I know Boon travels alot and has a passport.
I aim a high gain RFID capture antenna and system at Boon's house, BeBeep bam I have his passport shit.
I program that into my handy dandy AllahAkbar™ targeted VBIED starter kit
Buy a $500 beater off Craigslist that still has good tags but the title was lost. "don't worry bro, I'll get with the DMV and make it happen"
load beater up with some MujMaster™ DitY explosives
park on the route to the airport
Call taxi to airport myself for the flight I have to catch.


Hands free targeted munition deployment, with no MartyrTech™ brand dumbass required to press any button to make it go boom.

Other uses for the belt mounted faraday cage would be in a recording or RF sensitive environment, everyone's had cellphone "buzz" from it transmitting on speakers and so on, causing interference. You pocket that cellphone while you're working, and you don't have to worry about it making that expensive studio time last longer, or it screwing something up.

Leaving your shit at home sometimes isn't an option, or the best option.


----------



## pardus (Jul 16, 2011)

coastieaet said:


> I definitely recommend turning the phone off before placing it in the pouch since the phone's battery will quickly deplete since it will constantly search for a signal. The pouch stops all rf signals from going in or out of the pouch even with the phone powered on. You can test the pouch by having an active call going and placing the phone in the pouch. As soon as you drop it in there...dropped call. As soon as you pull the phone out it regains a signal and is back to normal operation. I read that this pouch was designed after a USSOCOM unit requested such a device so that they could carry a cell phone into the field without being tracked and without it setting of rf activated IEDs.



Why buy that when you can get 10 anti static bags from amazon for under $4?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jul 16, 2011)

Why buy mag pouches when you get a 4 mag pouch free with every bandolier of ammunition?


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 17, 2011)

Fuck the cell phone. It'll only lead to aliens.


----------



## QC (Jul 17, 2011)

As a cheap option, could you take out the battery and put the phone in a metal biscuit tin?


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 17, 2011)

Here in Florida we have the SunPass that came in a nice little bag that will do the same.

What I would like is pouch for when I'm traveling that will hold my passport and possibly my phone.  Maybe something in my backpack or maybe in a pocket on my pants.


----------



## JBS (Jul 17, 2011)

coastieaet said:


> ... and without it setting of rf activated IEDs.



Bingo.  That's it.


----------



## coastieaet (Jul 17, 2011)

I was talking to some reps at the ADS Warrior Expo and they said they are working on developing a "wallet" for sensitive items like credit cards and passports. It may seem pricy at first glance, but after having tested it against other "cloaking" options, it is completely worth the $50. The way I look at it is my identity is worth $50... Just my train of thought.


----------



## Dame (Jul 17, 2011)

coastieaet said:


> I was talking to some reps at the ADS Warrior Expo and they said they are working on developing a "wallet" for sensitive items like credit cards and passports. It may seem pricy at first glance, but after having tested it against other "cloaking" options, it is completely worth the $50. The way I look at it is my identity is worth $50... Just my train of thought.


I totally agree that whatever you can do to protect your identity, and indeed your person, is worth $50. However, I'm feeling a business opportunity coming on if the cost comes down using simpler methods that still have the features such as belt loops.
You want in? ;)


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 17, 2011)

coastieaet said:


> I was talking to some reps at the ADS Warrior Expo and they said they are working on developing a "wallet" for sensitive items like credit cards and passports. It may seem pricy at first glance, but after having tested it against other "cloaking" options, it is completely worth the $50. The way I look at it is my identity is worth $50... Just my train of thought.



I know there is already options available for it.  Unfortunately I didn't ask who made it though.


----------



## LibraryLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Why worry about cloaking your phone when the minute you pull it out of the bag, you're trackable?  I don't get the point.  Wouldn't it be better to just go without the phone?

LL


----------



## QC (Jul 18, 2011)

That's true LL, but the measures limit the risk.


----------



## pardus (Aug 1, 2011)

I just received my US passport and passport card. Both have the RFID chip  in them.
Interestingly the card comes with a sleeve that cloaks it from being scanned etc... The passport does not... :confused:


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 1, 2011)

I *may* be wrong, but I think the Passport has it built into the cover, if the cover is open it's readable if it's closed it's not.


----------



## Dame (Aug 1, 2011)

Ranger Psych said:


> I *may* be wrong, but I think the Passport has it built into the cover, if the cover is open it's readable if it's closed it's not.


Video on previous post shows that cover isn't reliable.


----------

