# Unmanned Helos -  Are they neccessary?



## Scotth (Oct 21, 2010)

> U.S. military to experiment with unmanned helicopters
> Faced with increasing casualties from roadside bombs in Afghanistan, the U.S. military will experiment with remote-controlled, unmanned helicopters to deliver supplies to remote outposts, the U.S. Navy said.
> 
> The U.S. Navy is seeking a contractor to operate the program, planned for the last quarter of 2011, Eric Pratson, leader of the U.S. Navy team behind the project, told CNN.
> ...


 
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/21/u-s-military-to-experiment-with-unmanned-helicopters/?hpt=Sbin

My first reaction is why? Does anyone see this as the future or even needed?

Who cares if a helo can stay up 24 hours if it only has a payload of 2,500 pounds. Mabye they think it will take 24 hours of flying to make up for what one truckload of supplies can carried? Your not really saving any man-power either because someone in a remote location still needs to fly the helo and you still need people to fuel and service a bird.

Why not spend all that money on expanding the current fleet of Chinooks or designing the next generation of heavy lift or even medium lift helo's?

Seems like a hugely expensive and unnecessary tax payer expense for some geewizz technology that really won't out perform anything that our current technology can do.


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## RackMaster (Oct 21, 2010)

It would be safer for flying resupply loads into high risk areas, whether it's due to terrain or incoming fire.  You could use it as an armed hovering surveillance platform capable of defending itself.


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## JBS (Oct 21, 2010)

Helos don't need runways.  They can drop cargo in heavily congested cities,, or in a small clearing in the treeline.  Fixed wing can't do that.  As a gun platform, helos can provide cover on a continual basis, whereas fixed wing can only provide it during a specified- and relatively short- window.  After it passes, it must again reposition, bring its ordnance to bear, and can then remain in that window of opportunity until it has to turn out again.


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## fox1371 (Oct 21, 2010)

The benefit that I can see from it, is that it can remain stationary.  That way you can get the angle you want on somebody you're watching quicker.  Of course, they're stressing resupply missions being its' main mission...and I think that while we may not NEED it, I definitely don't think that it can hurt.  I don't think I'd ever turn down an asset in the sky.


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## Headshot (Oct 21, 2010)

I see the flight time being the biggest asset in this day and age of shifting allies.  If you are having to stage further away than you once use to, the added alt and time will be a huge asset when some country says we can't base there for an assault or supply.  I.e. Saudi Arabia


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## AMRUSMCR (Oct 21, 2010)

Ask a bunch of guys on a remote FOB in crappy terrain that have a hell of a time getting re-supplied what they think.


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## fox1371 (Oct 21, 2010)

AMRUSMCR said:


> Ask a bunch of guys on a remote FOB in crappy terrain that have a hell of a time getting re-supplied what they think.


 
Yeahhh it sucks.  Got stuck in the middle of the desert south of the helmand for almost a month after our ferry back across broke down.  Ran out of chow/water/fuel.  It just took them awhile to get air resupply out to us.  This little UAV that they're working on could have been a big help.  I'm sure everyone here has been in a similar situation at some point or another.


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## pardus (Oct 21, 2010)

I expect to see unmanned tanks, fighter aircraft, boats etc... in the near future


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 21, 2010)

Ok... I'll start at the top:

2500 lbs payload is fucking FANTASTIC at full fuel capacity. Since I don't feel like digging for numbers, I'll use something easy as an interim math number, a Stock Hughes 500E.

A Hughes 500 has 2.8 hours of flight endurance with 400 lbs of fuel onboard. It has a total useable fuel capacity of 403 lbs giving it that 2.8 hours. At that fuel burn it burns 143 pounds/hour. 

So, using that fuel burn as just a number to work with... you are looking at an semi/totally autonomous rotary wing platform with a gross weight above 8000 lbs at a minimum... because with 24 hours of fuel as well as that 2500lb payload you're looking at 6000 lbs right there... that's not even counting airframe weight.

To put it into perspective with Apples to apples... 

2 pilots at risk flying a bird that can only carry 1500 lbs for 2.8 hours
No pilots at risk flying an aircraft that can carry 5500 lbs for 3 hours

Nevermind that bird can carry a thousand pounds more than the hughes, for 24 hours straight. That bird's got better time aloft AND weight capacity than a damn cessna 206! With NO RUNWAY NEEDED!


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## Teufel (Oct 22, 2010)

Sounds great in theory.  Our (USMC) cargo helicopter pilots tend to be a little squeamish when it comes to landing in small or dusty LZs, this would theoretically solve that problem until some squadron CO proves unwilling to risk losing his expensive new toy.  We'll see how this works out.  Until then, the only rotary wing helo support I trust are flown by Army warrant officers.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 22, 2010)

No crew rest issues, no downed pilot recovery issues, reduced training pipeline for flight personnel... I can see a lot of positives for this.


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## SpitfireV (Oct 22, 2010)

Ranger Psych said:


> Ok... I'll start at the top:
> 
> 2500 lbs payload is fucking FANTASTIC at full fuel capacity. Since I don't feel like digging for numbers, I'll use something easy as an interim math number, a Stock Hughes 500E.
> 
> ...


 
Comparing it to a H500 isn't a fair comparison since they're not designed or used as cargo helicopters. A better comparison would be to a Blackhawk or a Chinook, Puma or Merlin.


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## Scotth (Oct 22, 2010)

Marauder06 said:


> No crew rest issues, no downed pilot recovery issues, reduced training pipeline for flight personnel... I can see a lot of positives for this.


 
Those are some solid points that I didn't consider along with a few others in this thread. I guess overall, when I read stories like this one or that blimp article that Pardus posted in another thread. We have huge expenses coming down the pipe maintaining our current fleet of AC. We are spending money on new gee wiz technology when almost every airframe in the military is being pushed to the limit. After 10 years of war the life span of all the aircraft currently in our inventory have been greatly reduced and will need replacement far earlier then ever planned. 

Our country's economy is in the tank and were running huge deficits. Military spending cuts are coming or huge tax increases or continued huge deficits because those are the only realistic option ahead for our nation. I would rather see the money being spent today get directed to rebuild and replacing our current military equipment then money being spent on gear that might be nice but have limited use. Instead of spending money on R&D on remotely piloted helicopter that will have limited mission capability we spend that money and buy a handful of Blackhawks to replace the ones being worn out today. Instead of spending 1/2 a billion on a blimp program we buy a C-17 or two. 

There just isn't enough money to do everything and neither party has a realistic plan to make our current spending work.


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## fox1371 (Oct 22, 2010)

We could sell all of our old equipment to Pakistan!!!!  They can buy it off of us with the money we give them!!!!


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## AWP (Oct 23, 2010)

AMRUSMCR said:


> Ask a bunch of guys on a remote FOB in crappy terrain that have a hell of a time getting re-supplied what they think.



I've only been on the resupply bird to those types of places and I know the answer; I can see it on their faces when we land.



Ranger Psych said:


> Ok... I'll start at the top:



Those numbers exceed a Cessna 208's.....and even FedEx and the USPS use those for short haul missions here in the states. The Casa 212 almost doubles the capacity of this helo...on paper. Knowing what some of the Presidential flights carry out of Bagram, 3,450 lbs. outperforms even the Casa.


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