# Most significant Special Operations



## Ravage (Apr 19, 2008)

I've "borrowed" this thread idea from MP.net ().
Since most of the guys who gave their opinions there were not in the military I would like to ask the Shadow Spear community about your thoughts on this.

I'm no SOF expert but in my opinion Acid Gambit is definetly one of those "perfect ops.".

The Entebe raid and of course "Little Flower" (GROM snatched up a Serbian war criminal without fireing a single shot).


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## AWP (Apr 19, 2008)

Acid Gambit? Where the rescue helo with the precious cargo was shot down? You're serious?


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## Pete031 (Apr 19, 2008)

I would have to say the early stages of OEF. Some pretty unreal operations occured then.

WW2 Had some amazing "Special" Operations too.


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## Ravage (Apr 19, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> Acid Gambit? Where the rescue helo with the precious cargo was shot down? You're serious?



First American citizen to be rescued from another country by a Special Operations Unit - despite Chalk One going down.
But I'm no expert


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## AWP (Apr 19, 2008)

Was the mission a success? Yes, Muse got out. It didn't go nearly according to plan (few do), but the key thing is the rescue helo was shot down. We're talking "most successful" or "perfect", not "legendary" or "ground-breaking", but most successful. I don't think AG meets that criteria. I wouldn't say that TF Ranger does either to be honest, not when the criteria is our interpretation/idea of what is "most successful".

Entebbe had 4 hostages killed and 10 wounded. Considering the odds though that is pretty good. "Most successful" though? I don't know.

There were some pretty awesome ones in Korea and Vietnam, one could argue Carlos Hathcock's lone sniper mission fits the criteria.

Off the top of my head, I'd vote for LT Norris' rescue of Bat-21, but I'd have to do some thinking. Maybe the Raid at Cabanatuan where the Rangers rescued 512 POWs?


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## 0699 (Apr 19, 2008)

I read the title as "most significant", not "most successful"...

IMO, Operation Eagle Claw is the most significant special operation in recent history.  It forced (AFAIK) the US military and political leadership to realize they weren't as proficient at special operations as they needed to be.  This led to the forming of SOCOM, JSOC, and other SMUs.

Yes, it was a failure, but that failure led to some major changes in the US military.


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## 0699 (Apr 19, 2008)

If we're talking most successful, I'd nominate Otto Skorzeny in Operations Oak or Grief.

Even if Grief didn't "succeed" in the classic sense, it's effect on US operations was pretty dramatic.


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## AWP (Apr 19, 2008)

Significant? For modern SOF it is Eagle Claw for reasons you stated.

If I got off track I apologize. I may have misread the "commander's intent" on this one.


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## DA SWO (Apr 19, 2008)

Significant- Son Tay Prison Raid.


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## car (Apr 19, 2008)

0699 said:


> I read the title as "most significant", not "most successful"...
> 
> IMO, Operation Eagle Claw is the most significant special operation in recent history.  It forced (AFAIK) the US military and political leadership to realize they weren't as proficient at special operations as they needed to be.  This led to the forming of SOCOM, JSOC, and other SMUs.
> 
> Yes, it was a failure, but that failure led to some major changes in the US military.



x2.  SOF is where it is today largely because of lessons learned in Eagle Claw. Much like conventional ops are where they are due to lessons learned in Urgent Fury. :2c:


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## Simmerin' SigO (Apr 20, 2008)

SOWT said:


> Significant- Son Tay Prison Raid.



I'd concur with this.  Without the lessons from Son Tay, Eagle Claw would have looked a lot different (if attempted at all).

Non-US:  
GSG-9 hostage rescue in Mogadishu in 1977
Opn NIMROD (SAS at Princess Gate).


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## lancero (Apr 22, 2008)

The German Attack on Eben Emael 10 May 1940.   With a glider infil and the fiirst time use of shape charges, it has got to be considered significant.


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## Paddlefoot (Apr 24, 2008)

How about Cortes and his merry little band taking out the Aztecs?


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## Boondocksaint375 (Apr 24, 2008)

Paddlefoot said:


> How about Cortes and his merry little band taking out the Aztecs?


 
Does that really fit the threshold though?


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## Polar Bear (Apr 24, 2008)

The missions that know one hears about


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## Boondocksaint375 (Apr 24, 2008)

I won't derail the thread, but here is an excerpt from a paper I wrote recently on SO. 



> "Special operations" are typically performed independently, or in conjunction with, conventional military operations that aim to achieve a political or military objective where a conventional force requirement does not exist or might affect the overall strategic outcome. Special operations are usually conducted in a low-profile manner and aim to achieve the advantage of speed, surprise, and violence of action against an unsuspecting target. Special operations are typically carried out with limited numbers of highly trained Special Operations Forces that operate in all environments, utilize self-reliance, are able to easily adapt and overcome obstacles, and use non-conventional combat skills and equipment to complete objectives. Special ops also are usually implemented through specific or "tailored" intelligence.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 24, 2008)

post the whole paper!


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## Boondocksaint375 (Apr 24, 2008)

maybe after it is graded


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## Marauder06 (Apr 24, 2008)

I just wrote a 10 page term paper... in like 8 hours... not my best work but I still got an A (a very LOW A but an A nonetheless).


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## Simmerin' SigO (Apr 24, 2008)

*Is there a doctrine geek in the house?*



Boondocksaint375 said:


> I won't derail the thread, but here is an excerpt from a paper I wrote recently on SO.



I know we've opened the aperature of this thread beyond the scope of US ops, but for those that are curious, this is the official DOD definition of "special operations":

special operations 
(DOD) Operations conducted in hostile, denied, or politically sensitive environments to achieve military, diplomatic, informational, and/or economic objectives employing military capabilities for which there is no broad conventional force requirement. These operations often require covert, clandestine, or low visibility capabilities. Special operations are applicable across the range of military operations. They can be conducted independently or in conjunction with operations of conventional forces or other government agencies and may include operations through, with, or by indigenous or surrogate forces. Special operations differ from conventional operations in degree of physical and political risk, operational techniques, mode of employment, independence from friendly support, and dependence on detailed operational intelligence and indigenous assets. Also called SO.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 24, 2008)

If you find a definition of "SOF Operator," you win a prize


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## Simmerin' SigO (Apr 24, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> If you find a definition of "SOF Operator," you win a prize



I knew it wasn't in there...but I had to check (again) anyway...damn you and your temptations...


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## Pete031 (Apr 24, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> If you find a definition of "SOF Operator," you win a prize



Here you go.....:doh:


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## Marauder06 (Apr 24, 2008)

Maybe in Canada :eek:

No crossthread points for you.


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## QC (Apr 24, 2008)

Son Tay definitely. Most significant and inspired IMO is the raid on the Norsk Hydro operation at Vermok, Norway. The factory produced heavy water, deuterium oxide, for the manufacture of nuclear energy for Nazi Germany. 

On Oct. 18th 1942, 4 Norwegian SOE agents parachuted into the Hardanger Plateau to prepare the way for a larger force of 34 commandos. These were to be inserted by gliders. 19th Nov. 1942 The gliders got into difficulties and crashed and the survivors captured and shot by the Germans.
The four SOE agents then waited out the winter in miserable and debilitating conditions and then conducted the raid themselves in Feb 1943, which was successful as it hampered the enemies production of heavy water and thus atomic power. This was arguably the SOE's most daring and successful mission.


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## car (Apr 24, 2008)

Boondocksaint375 said:


> maybe after it is graded



Bullshit! 

Let us grade it!


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## pardus (Apr 24, 2008)

We'll I'm pushing the boundries somewhat for the force that conducted it, but the mission falls under the catagory.

The Gallipoli landings in Turkey 1915.

They were designed as a quick knockout blow to kick turkey out of the war thereby opening up the supply lines to russia and relieve the pressure on russia, therefore bringing pressure on germany and hastening the end of the first world war.

The landings failed in that objective but were the defining events for two nations, New Zealand and Australia.
Also the Turkish side was lead by the man who later became the founder of modern Turkey which I belive was inspired in no small part to the actions during this and other campaigns.

A Very significant operation indeed.

Of course I am biased....


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## Marauder06 (Apr 24, 2008)

Simmerin' SigO said:


> I knew it wasn't in there...but I had to check (again) anyway...damn you and your temptations...



Yep, gotta love those non-doctrinal terms... "monkey stomp," "door kicker," "operator"...


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## Simmerin' SigO (Apr 25, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> Yep, gotta love those non-doctrinal terms... "monkey stomp," "door kicker," "operator"...




And the ever-popular..."that's a technique"!


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## hoepoe (Apr 25, 2008)

Polar Bear said:


> The missions that know one hears about



Exactly what i was thinking!

We don't know the most successful Operations, for the most part anyway.

H


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## Scotth (Apr 25, 2008)

0699 said:


> I read the title as "most significant", not "most successful"...
> 
> IMO, Operation Eagle Claw is the most significant special operation in recent history.  It forced (AFAIK) the US military and political leadership to realize they weren't as proficient at special operations as they needed to be.  This led to the forming of SOCOM, JSOC, and other SMUs.
> 
> Yes, it was a failure, but that failure led to some major changes in the US military.




I would agree that this operation was a game changer an impacted greatly how we do business today.  I also agree with Car that Urgent Fury taught similar lessons and changed the way our conventional forces operate today.

It will be interesting in 20 years to see what kind of changes will happen because of the lessons we are learning today.


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## Hitman2/3 (Apr 26, 2008)

I would also have to go with operation Eagle Claw. It not only pointed out the need for Special Operations to have committed air assets, and the need for a Joint Special Operations Command, but also a the need for SOF to have unrestricted access to the intelligence agencies and the State Department. 

It also showed the shortfall of our intelligence agencies, specifically the CIA who at the time had pulled all of their people out of Iran and had not maintained any contacts. 

Had these things already been in place the planning and training would have taken a lot less time, and the operation itself probably would have actually gone all the way through. At least farther than Dessert one anyway.


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## riptide (Apr 28, 2008)

Eagle Claw was very significant many important lessons were learned. EX.-Don't use pilots from the Marine Corps in a special op like that! I'm completely kidding on that one!!! But seriously Eagle Claw taught many important lessons like the need for a organization of the 160th SOAR, it also provided crucial lessons to Delta and was a sort of baptism by disaster. Eagle Claw was definitely one of the most daring ops in history.


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## Sheepdog (Jul 4, 2008)

*Nyadzonya/Pungwe External Raid*

A significant operation that demonstrated all the SOF operational imperatives and just showed big balls (read as audacity) was the Rhodesian Selous Scouts raid into Nyadzonya terrorist training Camp in Mozambique, August 1976. This operation involved a raid on a large ZANLA base 60 miles inside of Mozambique by a Scouts flying column comprising ten trucks and four armored cars, again disguised as FRELIMO vehicles. The Scouts in the first four vehicles were also dressed in FRELIMO uniforms. They cut the telephone lines leading to the town where the terrorist base was located, then drove straight into the terrorist camp. They then opened fire on the unsuspecting insurgent terrorists drilling on the parade ground, killing at least 1,028. Fourteen important ZANLA terrorist were captured and taken back to Rhodesia for interrogation. On their way out of Mozambique, the raiding party blew up the Pungwe Bridge to prevent any pursuit and returned to Rhodesia safely. In a separate action, the covering team deployed to block the column’s escape, ambushed a Land Rover whose six occupants were found to be senior ZANLA officers; all six were killed. Now that is an Op! Check out the VDO of Reid-Daly discussing this mission.

Cheers!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs7V_IBQcDg"]YouTube - Rhodesia - The Nyadzonya Raid[/ame]


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## DA SWO (Jul 4, 2008)

I think the Colombian rescue will go down as one of the ballsiest modern raids.
Landing unmarked choppers in a FARC camp, getting the camp leaders to bring the hostages to you, and get on the birds to be exfilled, err, arrested took a lot of guts and imagination.

FARC Leaders are probably wondering how smart middle management actually is, or how many moles are actually in their midst.


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## smd51000 (Sep 6, 2008)

I was one of 2 TF-160 2shop guys who debriefed the pilots who flew the Acid Gambit part of Just Cause, I video taped the roof of modello prison a month earlier.  The mission was a success and the pilots had trained for it repeatedly and flew over the prison itself many times prior to the actual mission day. The problem was that no one saw the wires.  I did not see them.  During the debriefing, the pilot told us he specifically asked if there were wires and was told no.  But there were wires.  I have thought about this a lot over the past 20 years.  I even thought about proposing the creation of technology that would divulge the presence of dead wires.  I am sure something like that has been propose by many others.  It is needed in civilian aviation as well.  I think the theory to be explored would be to radiate an electrical field and then receive a reading on the resulting magnetic field or to do the revers.  In the panama case, a better telescopic lens and today's desktop software would have been enough to see the wire. Many pilots flew over that prison roof 2 times a day for a month leading up to the rescue.  No one saw the wire.  It may have been visible by just going down town, walking down the street and looking up but that would have risked 2 hostages instead of one.  The solution to identifying the presence of dead wires lies in the exploitation of the relationship between the electrical and magnetic fields that are created when electricity runs through the wire.  Seeing dead wires is not a problem that needs a human solution.  It needs a technology solution.  I would be willing to get together with all of the 160 guys who were on Acid Gambit and the other s2 guy who was in hanger 3 that night doing debriefings (it was actually my first debriefing (ever)) to go through the old spot reports and records and then suggest a proposed solution and get funding for a large grant that would be given to MIT/ Stanford and Caltech to solve this problem.  It is not a SOF problem.  Its an aviation problem.  There are crashes every year from this problem.


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## Royal (Nov 24, 2008)

Significant in a good way - despite a bad outcome - Eagle Claw for the reasons already given.

Significant in a bad way - despite a good outcome - Nimrod - becuase it forever pulled UKSF from the shadows where they belong.

Significant in a great way - with a great outcome, but horrendous casualties - Charriot (the Great Raid/St Nazaire).


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## Seraph (Nov 25, 2008)

Royal said:


> Significant in a bad way - despite a good outcome - Nimrod - becuase it forever pulled UKSF from the shadows where they belong.


Agreed. Changed a nation's perception over night.


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## 7point62 (Nov 28, 2008)

Skorzeny and Operation Oak deserves mention. 

And I'm glad somebody brought up the Selous Scouts...pioneers of many spec ops tactics...including some we should be doing more of today, like using their method for "turning" prisoners and "pseudo ops".

I also think the counterinsurgency warfare developed by Army Special Forces and Marine Combined Action Groups during Vietnam should be singled out as a significant long-term special operation (or campaign) that fleshed out some of the most important principles of COIN warfare...principles that are being resurrected now in OEF and OIF and, waddaya know, :doh: getting results in real time intel that are leading to more dead bad guys.


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## 0699 (Nov 28, 2008)

7point62 said:


> Skorzeny and Operation Oak deserves mention.



See post #7...


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## Trip_Wire (Nov 28, 2008)

The rescue of Mussolini by the German paratroopers, called the Gran Sasso raid! It was led by COL Otto Skorzeny who was involved in many other successful operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Sasso_raid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny


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## 0699 (Nov 29, 2008)

Trip_Wire said:


> The rescue of Mussolini by the German paratroopers, called the Gran Sasso raid! It was led by COL Otto Skorzeny who was involved in many other successful operations.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Sasso_raid
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny



That's Operation Oak.


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## digrar (Nov 29, 2008)

7point62 said:


> I also think the counterinsurgency warfare developed by Army Special Forces and Marine Combined Action Groups during Vietnam should be singled out as a significant long-term special operation (or campaign) that fleshed out some of the most important principles of COIN warfare...principles that are being resurrected now in OEF and OIF and, waddaya know, :doh: getting results in real time intel that are leading to more dead bad guys.



Kiwi and Australian SAS running from Malaya and Borneo and on into Viet Nam would have to be one of the longest and most successful runs in SOF history.


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2008)

digrar said:


> Kiwi and Australian SAS running from Malaya and Borneo and on into Viet Nam would have to be one of the longest and most successful runs in SOF history.



Agreed, I'll take that a step further and say even the Inf etc... with that long unbroken successful run were simply the best jungle warfare Soldiers in the world at that time. :2c:


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## Ravage (Nov 29, 2008)

Read about SASR missions in 'Nam. They had an impressive VC kill ratio. Think the VC called them "ghost of the jungle" (don't know how's that in Vietnamise).


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## 7point62 (Nov 29, 2008)

digrar said:


> Kiwi and Australian SAS running from Malaya and Borneo and on into Viet Nam would have to be one of the longest and most successful runs in SOF history.




Absolutely.


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## 7point62 (Nov 29, 2008)

0699 said:


> See post #7...




:doh:


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2008)

Ravage said:


> Read about SASR missions in 'Nam. They had an impressive VC kill ratio. Think the VC called them "ghost of the jungle" (don't know how's that in Vietnamise).



The Kiwis (it maybe Aussies too I'm not sure) not just SAS were nicknamed the 'Grey Ghosts' as we would appear and disapear at will and surprise the gooks, we were just better at jungle warfare than they were.

http://www.amazon.com/Grey-Ghosts-Zealand-Vietnam-about/dp/1869586581


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## digrar (Nov 29, 2008)

The VC called SASR Ma Rung or "Phantoms of the Jungle", it's the title of David Horner's early history of the Regiment.


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## Royal (Dec 3, 2008)

7point62 said:


> And I'm glad somebody brought up the Selous Scouts...pioneers of many spec ops tactics...including some we should be doing more of today, like using their method for "turning" prisoners and "pseudo ops".



Borrowed from 22 SAS and the DINCOs in Dhofar and Aden in the 50s and 60s, who in turn borrowed them borrowed from from General Sir Frank Kitson (author of several rather good books on the subject) who used them during the Mau Mau rebelion in Kenya (and to a much lesser extent against EOKA in Cyprus) in the 50s. 

Nothing new under the sun


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## QC (Dec 3, 2008)

Kitsons' book on Peacekeeping and Counterinsurgency is a minor classic.


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## pardus (Dec 3, 2008)

The Selous Scouts first CO was Lt Col Ron Reid-Daly, a member of the British SAS, (C Squadron). 
He'd seen this concept used to limited effect in Kenya etc... and knew they could do it better, the Selous Scout did indeed go on to perfect the method.

I'm not sure how well it would work in this conflict, Something certainly worth looking into though IMO.



Royal said:


> Borrowed from 22 SAS and the DINCOs in Dhofar and Aden in the 50s and 60s, who in turn borrowed them borrowed from from General Sir Frank Kitson (author of several rather good books on the subject) who used them during the Mau Mau rebelion in Kenya (and to a much lesser extent against EOKA in Cyprus) in the 50s.
> 
> Nothing new under the sun


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## Royal (Dec 4, 2008)

Queens Cadet said:


> Kitsons' book on Peacekeeping and Counterinsurgency is a minor classic.



Which one? 



pardus762 said:


> The Selous Scouts first CO was Lt Col Ron Reid-Daly, a member of the British SAS, (C Squadron).
> He'd seen this concept used to limited effect in Kenya etc... and knew they could do it better, the Selous Scout did indeed go on to perfect the method.
> 
> I'm not sure how well it would work in this conflict, Something certainly worth looking into though IMO.



I think that the 22 guys running _firqat_ units in Dhofar would argue that they had the system pretty much off-pat by the mid 60s. Not to take anything away from the Rhodesians - they did a bloody good job.


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## pardus (Dec 4, 2008)

Royal said:


> I think that the 22 guys running _firqat_ units in Dhofar would argue that they had the system pretty much off-pat by the mid 60s. Not to take anything away from the Rhodesians - they did a bloody good job.



True.

By that time the Rhodesians were on their own, the two programmers were separate of each other, evolving independently.


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## RGRRTO (Apr 21, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Maybe the Raid at Cabanatuan where the Rangers rescued 512 POWs?



This one has my vote. Lets not forget the Phillipinos who helped.


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## Centermass (Apr 21, 2009)

Project Plough

SF is what it is today because of it and draws directly from its lineage.


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## formerBrat (Apr 25, 2009)

I don't remember seeing it so far, but I'll toss out Operation Jedburgh, for multiple reaons;

1. The role it had in shaping early CIA and USSF and the leaders of those organizations to come.

2. It was a multi-national effort with teams comprising of different nationalities and genders IIRC at times. 

3. The ability to encompass and show the possibilities of using this kind of template of "force multiplication."


Not sure if it meets the criteria or not, but a serious oldie and debatable actual operation since it was in a story....let's not forget the Trojan Horse by the Greeks to finally enter Troy. (and to a lesser known and less successful use of a rabbit to locate the Holy Grail by Monty Python)


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## Mac_NZ (Apr 25, 2009)

Operation Eland by the Selous Scouts.  

http://history-net.com/selous_scouts.html


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## rwtbkk (Aug 20, 2009)

*great thread*

This is a great thread, having just joined I hate to see it die. I think earlier comments about what exactly is "the best" operation has to be defined in did it accomplish it's objectives. 

Tailwind certainly comes to mind. Drew off thousands of NVA and relieved pressure from the Agency groups to the south. Bonanza was the intel they brought back. 

As to an ealier comment about longest running special op I think SOG as far as a single command executing Special Ops was about the longest running as far as I know.

Every war has certainly seen at least one or more good spec op, problem is just as soon as it is sucessful along comes the generals......consider Afghanistan today has more assigned to the General staff than took down the country.


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## Royal (Aug 27, 2009)

rwtbkk said:


> As to an ealier comment about longest running special op I think SOG as far as a single command executing Special Ops was about the longest running as far as I know.



UK military HUMINT operations in Northern Ireland ran continuously from Easter 1971 to 2...  lets just say that they lasted a bit longer than SOG 

Although the first operational deployment to the Province by 22 SAS was in 1969, they did not have a continual presence until the 1980s. Even so, it was rather longer than SOG's 8 years.


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## Ravage (Aug 30, 2009)

Royal said:


> Significant in a bad way - despite a good outcome - Nimrod - becuase it forever pulled UKSF from the shadows where they belong.



Don't You think it would have happened sooner or later ?


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## KBar666 (Aug 31, 2009)

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already.

The OSS's operations in prep for Normandy invaison in my opinion was pretty amazing considering for the most part they took civilians with no real experience and had them doing some interesting stuff in very short order.


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## Echo (Mar 31, 2011)

formerBrat said:


> I don't remember seeing it so far, but I'll toss out Operation Jedburgh, for multiple reaons;
> 
> 1. The role it had in shaping early CIA and USSF and the leaders of those organizations to come.
> 
> ...



Agree


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## newbie (Mar 31, 2011)

My un-needed input:  The current war on terror will probably go down as the most important and validating long term (socom) operation in history.  I doubt, based off of what I have read/heard that there has existed a finer breed of special operator or a higher op-tempo than currently exists.  I would also say that SOF  operations in Iraq during the surge, as well as Jawbreaker in A-stan would go down as maybe the two greatest special operations in modern history.  (personally, I cant think of a more successful or more perfectly executed mission by any country's SOF than what American SF did in A-stan).  Maybe also to include the operations by American SF and CIA, who linked with the Kurds in northern Iraq in the run -up to the invasion.  Just my opinion though.


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## x SF med (Mar 31, 2011)

The really significant Special Operations Missions will never be known to the public, for the fact they are Special Operations and significant in more ways than winning a battle or a war.


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## pardus (Mar 31, 2011)

Do some more reading outside of this current conflict.  .02c

Your op tempo comment is... well, just read more.



newbie said:


> My un-needed input:  The current war on terror will probably go down as the most important and validating long term (socom) operation in history.  I doubt, based off of what I have read/heard that there has existed a finer breed of special operator or a higher op-tempo than currently exists.  I would also say that SOF  operations in Iraq during the surge, as well as Jawbreaker in A-stan would go down as maybe the two greatest special operations in modern history.  (personally, I cant think of a more successful or more perfectly executed mission by any country's SOF than what American SF did in A-stan).  Maybe also to include the operations by American SF and CIA, who linked with the Kurds in northern Iraq in the run -up to the invasion.  Just my opinion though.


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## Centermass (Apr 12, 2011)

The 8240th Army (White Tigers) during the Korean conflict. Much of their existent wasn't known until declassified in the early 90's. and even with that, I only became aware of them just recently watching a History Channel documentation of the unit.



> North Korea 1951: They were unknown soldiers fighting unknown battles in a forgotten war. Their covert missions annihilated communist forces. For the first time, the details of this top secret army code named "8240" have been declassified. Four Army Rangers and 20 South Koreans accept a classified mission to destroy rail lines far behind enemy lines. At the very start, the mission goes bad. Brutally cold temperatures and poor planning force them to scrap the mission but not without casualties and a daring helicopter rescue under heavy fire.
> 
> There are also victories by battalions called The White Tigers known for their ferocious fighting. Their intrepid raid demolished a top Communist fortress. History never fully honored the bravery of these soldiers who paved the way for US special forces today...that is until now.



As most of its missions were classified, its members (Many of them Rangers) had to request orders for a CIB. 

In addition to Project Plough, another example that solidified USSF into what it is today.


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## 0699 (Apr 12, 2011)

Centermass said:


> The 8240th Army (White Tigers) during the Korean conflict. Much of their existent wasn't known until declassified in the early 90's. and even with that, I only became aware of them just recently watching a History Channel documentation of the unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like a poser's wet dream.  "I was with the 8240th; all my records were destroyed"...


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## amlove21 (Apr 12, 2011)

> My un-needed input: The current war on terror will probably go down as the most important and validating long term (socom) operation in history. I doubt, based off of what I have read/heard that there has existed a finer breed of special operator or a higher op-tempo than currently exists. I would also say that SOF operations in Iraq during the surge, as well as Jawbreaker in A-stan would go down as maybe the two greatest special operations in modern history. (personally, I cant think of a more successful or more perfectly executed mission by any country's SOF than what American SF did in A-stan). Maybe also to include the operations by American SF and CIA, who linked with the Kurds in northern Iraq in the run -up to the invasion. Just my opinion though.



A shorter way to say this would be "Read Sean Naylor's book 'Not a good day to die' cause I think that too."

I think there are certainly some things to take away from our current ops, sure. But a lot of what we learned has come from our mistakes (like in Anaconda) and paid for in the blood of patriots. I understand that one could argue that point for nearly every special operation action, and it's a salient point. To be sure, this 10 years has taught us much- but at the same time simply re-enforced lessons we already knew from previous engagements.

And to say that "not a finer breed of operator or higher op tempo..." is a stretch borne of misunderstanding. the original operators in our military did a lot more with a lot less of everything- time, money, training, equipment, and most of all experience. Think about it this way- there are very few situations now where we go "holy crap, this is 100% new, i have never seen or trained for this, this is completely new." It simply doesn't happen. Well, at one time, that happened EVERY time those gentlemen broke the doorstep, my friend, and can be credited with the glut of knowledge and training systems we have today.


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