# Naval Officer charged with Espionage



## Gunz (Apr 11, 2016)

"_A U.S. naval flight officer with an extensive signals intelligence background_


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 11, 2016)

I'm not surprised that China was his benefactor. This will shift attention away from Hilary, to some degree. The advantage Clinton has is a plea of stupidity, arrogance, and ignorance; that are all true.

The question with Lin, is if this was his goal all along?


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## Brill (Apr 11, 2016)

They should let him go because the stuff he gave the Chinese is probably just available on the internet.


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 11, 2016)

lindy said:


> They should let him go because the stuff he gave the Chinese is probably just available on the internet.



Their bots are looking at us all the time. I just now took a look at the bots from China and the count is 24. Something to keep in mind when posting.


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## Brill (Apr 11, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Their bots are looking at us all the time. I just now took a look at the bots from China and the count is 24. Something to keep in mind when posting.



I think you just highlighted the fact that SS's own sysadmin is more qualified than the entire OPM IT department.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 11, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> The question with Lin, is if this was his goal all along?



His goal to distract attention from Clinton or to be a penetration agent right from the start?

Considering he and his family came from Taiwan originally, pretty doubtful if the latter.

The likely cause of the recruitment, going solely by that article, would appear to be the hookers and adultery (I wonder if those are the same incidents?).


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2016)

At least Lady Gaga tickets weren't involved.


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## Gunz (Apr 11, 2016)

lindy said:


> They should let him go because the stuff he gave the Chinese is probably just available on the internet.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 11, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I'm not surprised that China was his benefactor. This will shift attention away from Hilary, to some degree. The advantage Clinton has is a plea of stupidity, arrogance, and ignorance; that are all true.
> 
> The question with Lin, is if this was his goal all along?



This has nothing to do with Hillary. At.All


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 11, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> This has nothing to do with Hillary. At.All



It was meant as a joke.


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## SpitfireV (Apr 11, 2016)

Very hard to tell mate, especially with the constant references to Clinton in every thread these days (that's a general statement and not one particular to you).


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## TLDR20 (Apr 11, 2016)

SpitfireV said:


> Very hard to tell mate, especially with the constant references to Clinton in every thread these days (that's a general statement and not one particular to you).



Yeah seriously.


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2016)

The Clintons killed Jesus.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 11, 2016)

If he is truly a plant, the USN would do right to sentence him to death... The trial will tell, hopefully, but it's time to start crushing sole's on this bullshit.


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## Kraut783 (Apr 11, 2016)

As a former CI guy, we always caught hell about thinking spies were around every corner and commanders would advise no one is targeting their soldiers......well, there ya go.  It seems espionage is on the rise, it's not always about terrorism.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2016)

edit


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## DA SWO (Apr 12, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> If he is truly a plant, the USN would do right to sentence him to death... The trial will tell, hopefully, but it's time to start crushing sole's on this bullshit.


We need to execute a couple of spies just to send a message.
We will lose by being civil.


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## Brill (Apr 12, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> We need to execute a couple of spies just to send a message.
> We will lose by being civil.



Quid pro quo would be damaging to our efforts. Just PNG the CO and expect same on their end.  The worlds second oldest profession has professionally accepted protocols as well.


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## Devildoc (Apr 12, 2016)

Planted by China.  Reminds me of that Costner movie "No Way Out."  I would also say regarding the article Ocoka One posted only do _some_ of the espionage cases makes sense in hindsight.  I don't know that with all of the people in the Navy who have access to so much classified information a mere handful (of shit heads) makes a "broken system."


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2016)

edit


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## Salt USMC (Apr 12, 2016)

SpitfireV said:


> His goal to distract attention from Clinton or to be a penetration agent right from the start?
> 
> Considering he and his family came from Taiwan originally, pretty doubtful if the latter.
> 
> The likely cause of the recruitment, going solely by that article, would appear to be the hookers and adultery (I wonder if those are the same incidents?).


Yup.  It sounds like he caught in a honeypot.  There doesn't seem to be anything yet that supports the idea that he was "planted by China".


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 12, 2016)

I was assuming based on the fact he was born in Taiwan, naturalized to the U.S. and than achieved leadership in Navel signal intelligence and apparently was giving classified information to both China and Taiwan. In a geographical area where our navel intelligence is very important, it just seems a bit odd?

But than of course maybe he joined the navy to gain citizenship, was in signal intelligence because of his native tongue, and got caught in a honey pot. 

Time and a trial will tell, my only point is if he is a plant, who infiltrated our ranks within our military, became an officer and worked in one of the more important fields of the Intel community, it makes us look like fools and our vetting system look like a joke, and when you are made to look that weak, a harsh punishment tothe person caught is fitting. Hints my original comments.


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## DA SWO (Apr 12, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> I don't agree with the 2nd article I posted, it's an opinion piece. This case and a few others doesn't mean the "Navy can't be trusted..." But there have been some disturbing issues regarding the questionable behavior of Naval officers in the past few years, and image is a cumulative thing.
> 
> I also don't think this guy was a plant. Blackmail is one of the oldest recruitment incentives and as I mentioned above, with the adultery charges, that's what this might be.





Deathy McDeath said:


> Yup.  It sounds like he caught in a honeypot.  There doesn't seem to be anything yet that supports the idea that he was "planted by China".



His cultural norms made it easy for the Chinese to exploit him, so the honeypot was either a setup, or a lucky hit for the PRC; either way they took it and ran with it.
Which may explain why they target naturalized citizens or others who are Chinese.

Finally, how do you keep a guy (whose has family) locked up for 8 months without anyone finding out?


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> His cultural norms made it easy for the Chinese to exploit him, so the honeypot was either a setup, or a lucky hit for the PRC; either way they took it and ran with it.
> Which may explain why they target naturalized citizens or others who are Chinese.
> 
> Finally, how do you keep a guy (whose has family) locked up for 8 months without anyone finding out?




I was wondering the same thing. Family quarantine? It's possible considering the seriousness of the offense. They might've locked up the family in on-base housing somewhere and kept them under "house arrest" or "protective custody" or whatever. Does Habeas Corpus apply to the UCMJ?


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## Il Duce (Apr 12, 2016)

I think the plant angle is far-fetched as @Ocoka One says but not impossible.  I think the more likely scenario - in addition to the honeypot - is the danger of close and continuing association with foreign nationals, especially family.  The vast majority of immigrants serve faithfully and patriotically but there is a vulnerability in having relatives abroad within the scope of influence of a foreign power.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> ...if he is a plant, who infiltrated our ranks within our military, became an officer and worked in one of the more important fields of the Intel community, it makes us look like fools and our vetting system look like a joke...



It's an extraordinary effort and sacrifice to become a "plant." Your entire life becomes a lie and a deception that you must maintain at all times and requires an exceptionally motivated and dedicated individual and it's quite rare. Usually plants have some unique emotional drive that they can tap into, like the need for revenge, etc. In contrast, blackmail is a staple of tradecraft.


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## Gunz (Apr 12, 2016)

Il Duce said:


> I think the plant angle is far-fetched as @Ocoka One says but not impossible.  I think the more likely scenario - in addition to the honeypot - is the danger of close and continuing association with foreign nationals, especially family.  The vast majority of immigrants serve faithfully and patriotically _*but there is a vulnerability in having relatives abroad within the scope of influence of a foreign power*_.



Absolutely, sir.  Example: "Do this for us because we have your parents."


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## Grunt (Apr 12, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Absolutely, sir.  Example: "Do this for us because we have your parents."



Yep...one of the oldest forms of power and coercion...threats against the family.

Possibly preceded only by the threat of pain...and followed by the allure of money.


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## Il Duce (Apr 12, 2016)

It's an especially acute problem in the IC.  NSA is famous/notorious for kicking servicemembers with valid clearances out of the building - or out of specific TOPIs - for family associations.  It makes for a tough cut when the most reliable way to get 3/3 or better linguists is recruiting heritage speakers.


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## AWP (Apr 12, 2016)

As many "not authorized to speak" people out there, we're sure to hear more details soon.


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## Brill (Apr 15, 2016)

Interesting connections.

http://www.newsweek.com/edward-lin-...eath-penalty-447598?google_editors_picks=true


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## AWP (Apr 15, 2016)

lindy said:


> Interesting connections.
> 
> http://www.newsweek.com/edward-lin-...eath-penalty-447598?google_editors_picks=true



Being prior Navy, what do you make of this?



> Lin enlisted in the Navy as an ordinary sailor in 1999. Following basic training, he attended the Navy’s nuclear training schools in Charleston, South Carolina, from March of 2000 to February of 2002, according to his official Navy biography, obtained by USNI News on Monday. Later that month, he was enrolled as a student in the Navy’s Officer Candidate School. He was commissioned on May 10, 2002.



He goes to Nuke School and whether he graduates or not he starts OCS his last month in the program and he isn't commissioned as a SWO or Sub officer? If he passes the course why does the Navy allow him to leave an undermanned program and if he fails out how does he fail into an OCS billet? It isn't like he did time in the fleet. He finished an arduous program or failed at the only thing he did in the Navy, so he goes immediately to OCS? Did the Navy need a Mandarin speaker THAT bad?


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## SpitfireV (Apr 15, 2016)

Lots of those "sensitive contacts" are hardly surprising considering the amount of time he spent in the Navy. I think if you spend enough time in the government in general you end up with mates all around the place and in different jobs, sensitive or not. 

Some of the other foreign contacts have some red flags, though.


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## Il Duce (Apr 15, 2016)

I'm not sure how much can be gleaned from a guy's linkedin profile.  What I thought was most interesting is we have a Newsweek article - a reasonably respected publication - publishing an entire article that just recounts which of this dude's linkedin contacts 'endorsed' him on certain skills.  Just some interesting implications about the role and relative importance of a social media profile.

On a related note I think this touches on an area where our intelligence capabilities are vastly inferior to our adversaries - open source intelligence (OSINT).  When I was coming up OSINT meant searching publicly available news articles.  I think the new internet environment makes OSINT an extraordinarily broader medium for a host of intelligence applications.  State-sponsored activities in Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea are decades ahead of what the USG does and in some applications I think non-state actors like ISIS and it's affiliates are comparable.

There was a Southpark episode several years ago where the boys were running circles around the USG using social media hunting down terrorist that I thought laid out the situation very clearly.  Wish I could remember what season that was.


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## Brill (Apr 16, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Being prior Navy, what do you make of this?
> 
> 
> 
> He goes to Nuke School and whether he graduates or not he starts OCS his last month in the program and he isn't commissioned as a SWO or Sub officer? If he passes the course why does the Navy allow him to leave an undermanned program and if he fails out how does he fail into an OCS billet? It isn't like he did time in the fleet. He finished an arduous program or failed at the only thing he did in the Navy, so he goes immediately to OCS? Did the Navy need a Mandarin speaker THAT bad?



I'm not sure about the officer route but on the enlisted side, DLI was full of Nuke school drops. As @Il Duce mentioned, OSINT s alive & well especially when a hostile service matches that info with their other sources.

Lin's affiliation with that unit is very concerning.


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