# Reserve USMC Reconnaisance Marine



## Drangster (Mar 28, 2017)

Hey everybody.  I am currently torn between a couple of options for when my reenlistment time comes in a couple of years.  I'm in the Marine Reserves and a full time law enforcement officer.  I plan on either becoming a State Wildlife and Fisheries Agent or staying local and joining the SWAT Team when I'm able.

I'm hungry, y'all. I'm honestly a warrior and I feel like I'm not getting enough out of my current service.  I want to do more, but I can't seem to decide exactly what route I want to take.  I was even putting a packet in to go Active Duty MARSOC last year while they were taking Reservists.  I did the physical training program and studied on my knowledge.  However, I decided to stay in the Reserves due to my job and my fiancée.  They say not to let a woman dictate what you do, but that's easier said than done when you love someone.

I love being in law enforcement and I love being a Marine.  I do plan on retiring out of the Marine Reserves, just not as my current MOS.  Currently I'm a Maintenance Management Specialist (0411) and I hate it. I do nothing but sit in supply on drill weekends, and I feel like it'll be that way on deployments.

My question is this:
When it comes time to reenlist, I plan on changing my MOS to either Scout Sniper or Reconnaisance Marine (obviously after first changing my MOS to an infantry, due to the requirements).  I'm leaning more towards Recon Marine.  However, what does being a Reserve Recon Marine consist of? I know the training pipeline and the overall mission won't be any different than that of active duty Recon Marine, but how often would I get to deploy as a Reserve Recon Marine?  I just don't want to join Recon and be disappointed with the lack of opportunity.  The main reason I'm leaning towards Recon is because I believe they would deploy more often than Scout Snipers, since Scout Snipers aren't SpecOps.

Please correct me if anything I said above was incorrect. I've been doing research but I haven't been able to actually talk to someone knowledgeable about this.  I apologize for my long post, but this has been on my mind for so long and I really just don't have someone I can sit down and talk to about this.


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## Gunz (Mar 28, 2017)

Your plans seem a bit jumbled...your talking about six different priorities here: SWAT, Game & Wildlife enforcement, Scout Sniper, Reserve Recon, being around for your lady and your employer, _and _getting more opportunities to deploy. Sounds like you need to sort a few things out before stuff can happen.


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## Teufel (Mar 28, 2017)

Where do you live?


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## Teufel (Mar 28, 2017)

Short answer yes, I don't have time to get into details now but I'll expand on that later. It's a good program.


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## Gunz (Mar 28, 2017)

@Teufel can address most of your questions. 

But I'm curious...What happened to your college plans and the OCS route? Your intro says you hated college. Did you drop out?


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## Drangster (Mar 28, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Your plans seem a bit jumbled...your talking about six different priorities here: SWAT, Game & Wildlife enforcement, Scout Sniper, Reserve Recon, being around for your lady and your employer, _and _getting more opportunities to deploy. Sounds like you need to sort a few things out before stuff can happen.



Yeah I may have worded it kinda weird. What I mean is that I plan on staying in law enforcement, whether that be local SWAT or game warden. I also want to remain in the Reserves and be able to deploy.  I want to serve domestically as a LEO, but also overseas. I pretty much want a good balance. My fiancée is supportive of whatever I do, she was even on board with me when I was applying for MARSOC.



Teufel said:


> Where do you live?



I'm in Louisiana



Ocoka said:


> @Teufel can address most of your questions.
> 
> But I'm curious...What happened to your college plans and the OCS route? Your intro says you hated college. Did you drop out?



I just didn't enjoy it. I worked with my local Sheriff Department part-time while in college. I guess I got distracted from college by being on the job. I did drop out because I didn't feel like I was truly learning about being a police officer, even though I was majoring in Criminal Justice. I've learned much more about laws and policing from actually being on the street. The only bonus I would have gotten by finishing my degree is $150 extra a month on a paycheck. Which, in my eyes wasn't worth the trouble.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 28, 2017)

Disagree cause....



Drangster said:


> The only bonus I would have gotten by finishing my degree is $150 extra a month on a paycheck.



:wall:

@Drangster -

- You will not be 21 much longer - and in the blink of an eye you will be 30.  Whether you make it to SOF of some type or not, you will eventually need to find a new career.

The only bonus you would have gotten by finishing your degree is:

- Most law enforcement opportunities will not hire you without a degree
- Many companies (Target is one) will not even interview you without a 4 year degree
- I once missed out on a life-changing promotional opportunity because I had not finished my 4 year degree

Here is a reality for you.  If you want to make more than $60 grand a year without a degree, you will need to work in:
- Sales (business to business)
- Foods management  (multi unit)
- Retail management (multi unit)
- Traditional trades...with overtime

That's not an all encompassing list, but it's pretty close.  Finish your freeking degree, man.  I cannot imagine that there is a man or woman on this board who would tell you that your reason's for quitting school are logical, or something you will not eventually regret.

A lot.


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## Drangster (Mar 28, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Disagree cause....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand, I really do. I even tried going back this past semester, doing online courses while working full time but I couldn't pull enough motivation out of me to finish it. I dropped out again this semester because I got behind by several weeks due to me going to drill for longer than just a weekend.  I think what I need to do in the future, since I'm working 1500-2300 evening shift, is to go to classes in the morning at a local college, then go to work in the evening.

I don't want to say I regret dropping out, because I love the position that I'm at. However, I do know that I've never heard someone say that they regretted getting their degree.


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## Teufel (Mar 28, 2017)

You can join 3rd Force Recon Co out of mobile. Here is the current recruiting packet from 4th Recon. What specific questions do you have? I'll be able to answer questions in an hour or so but it's better to do them all in one shot.


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## Drangster (Mar 28, 2017)

Teufel said:


> You can join 3rd Force Recon Co out of mobile. Here is the current recruiting packet from 4th Recon. What specific questions do you have? I'll be able to answer questions in an hour or so but it's better to do them all in one shot.



That packet had some awesome information, thanks for that.  

Now for my questions all in one:

I'm pretty much trying to find out how often Reserve Recon deploys vs any other reserve unit?  I noticed that the standard drill weekend is longer, which isn't an issue at all.  I want to deploy, but obviously I want to be able to keep my job.  A co-worker who is retired Army said they deploy just about every year.  Not sure I'm going to believe that until verified.

Also, would it be feasible if I decided to actually stay in Recon until I retired? I know it's physically demanding and takes a toll on your body, but it's not exactly unheard of, is it? 

And if I did happen to get into Recon I'd be about 24/25 years old and a Corporal (E-4) when I applied since my current contract ends in 2019 (6 year Reserve contract), would I be kinda behind in terms of the average age of a new Recon Marine? 

Last question: The training pipeline, I understand, wouldn't be any different from active duty, is that correct? And is there breaks between each different school or are they back to back?

Obviously, first step is to get selected, but I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. I appreciate all the help.


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## TimoteoDunkin (Mar 28, 2017)

By what you have written, you aren't sure what you want to do as far as making the Marine Corps. a career. To keep your job in the civilian side but deploy as well is asking a lot of. You have to weigh pros and cons as to remain in Law Enforcement or step out the comfort zone by going AD. Many factors in your case to decide upon but starting with the 25 meter target is the first objective.


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## Teufel (Mar 28, 2017)

Snipers do not deploy as a platoon. They deploy as part of their respective reserve infantry battalion. Recon typically sends detachments to wherever they are needed.

The reserves are different than the regular Marine Corps. No one can force you to deploy for the most part. This may not be the case in the event of a major war but other than that they ask for volunteers. Not everyone can take off to Africa or Okinawa for a month to six months. You can do as much as you want. You can do the 38 days a year or you can go to every school under the sun and volunteer for every deployment they offer.  It's up to you. There are unit deployments and there are also individual augment (IA) deployments with other units. 

A lifetime in the recon community breaks down your body. I don't imagine it's quite the same for the reservists though. It's a question of doing something 250 plus days a year or 38. Take care of your body and you will be fine. 

There is no established training pipeline for active or reserve reconnaissance forces. For example I went to Airborne and SERE shortly after graduating BRC but didn't hit dive and freefall until my sixth or seventh year in the community. It depends on your unit, their requirements, school quotas, and your schedule. I do not think you will go to schools back to back. They don't normally line up that nicely. 

Guys come over to recon at all ages, especially in the reserves. I wouldn't worry about it. I knew a former aircrew Marine at 1st Force who came over in his 30s.

Did that answer your questions?


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## Teufel (Mar 28, 2017)

I responded to another reserve recon post here somewhere, that may also answer some of your questions.


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## Drangster (Mar 29, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Snipers do not deploy as a platoon. They deploy as part of their respective reserve infantry battalion. Recon typically sends detachments to wherever they are needed.
> 
> The reserves are different than the regular Marine Corps. No one can force you to deploy for the most part. This may not be the case in the event of a major war but other than that they ask for volunteers. Not everyone can take off to Africa or Okinawa for a month to six months. You can do as much as you want. You can do the 38 days a year or you can go to every school under the sun and volunteer for every deployment they offer.  It's up to you. There are unit deployments and there are also individual augment (IA) deployments with other units.
> 
> ...



That absolutely answered all of my questions, actually. I appreciate the help, it feels good to have those questions answered. Like I said, I haven't had an opportunity to actually sit and talk to someone, so I've mostly just been in the dark on it all.


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## policemedic (Mar 29, 2017)

Drangster said:


> I understand, I really do. I even tried going back this past semester, doing online courses while working full time but I couldn't pull enough motivation out of me to finish it. I dropped out again this semester because I got behind by several weeks due to me going to drill for longer than just a weekend.  I think what I need to do in the future, since I'm working 1500-2300 evening shift, is to go to classes in the morning at a local college, then go to work in the evening.
> 
> I don't want to say I regret dropping out, because I love the position that I'm at. However, I do know that I've never heard someone say that they regretted getting their degree.



I understand the difficulty, but it's not an excuse.  I know an active duty Marine who is finishing his graduate degree next month.  It's not uncommon for him to do class work in the field--and he is in the field a lot.  It can be done, but you have to want to do it.

I have to tell you that repeatedly quitting things you don't like will not help you get onto a SWAT team (although I'm not sure that's what you want to do, since wildlife enforcement is wildly different from SWAT work).  There are lots of things SWAT cops do that you may not like, and your teammates need to know you'll give it 100% every single time.

The other thing is that while reading criminal justice at university won't teach you how to police, it will teach you other things.  Research skills, writing skills, critical thinking, logical arguments...these are all important things that are part and parcel of a college education.  All of them are germane to police work.


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## SpitfireV (Mar 29, 2017)

Maybe you could give a language degree a crack. I found with mine that when my interest would sometimes wane (usually when I was balls deep in a particular type of particle) that the cultural aspect really kept me going. If you have a chance to use it at work too, even better. I found that a practical use for what they were teaching very beneficial rather than classroom dialogues.


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## Devildoc (Mar 29, 2017)

My experience with 3rd Force is...dated, and as a doc.  I looked into attaching to that unit as a corpsman many (many) years ago.  Not only did they have the billets, they were in such need for HMs they would take a doc as a straight-up 8404 (I would imagine because of the policy requirements for having med support on just about every training evolution).  I went down for a drill weekend and all the guys, from the reserve leadership, the I&I staff, the platoon guys, they were all great.


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## leonrazurado (Mar 29, 2017)

I don't know how it would work in LA, but my department has civil service protection. Some of the other local agencies don't, and their deputies could get fired whenever anytime theres a change in the COC. If your department has anything similar, I would stick it out with them.


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I responded to another reserve recon post here somewhere, that may also answer some of your questions.



Teufel, my final question is:

Does Recon have its own recruiters just like how MARSOC does? I'm gonna be meeting with my career planner this week since we'll be at drill and I want to run this by him. I just haven't been able to find contact information online for Recon recruiting.


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## Teufel (Mar 31, 2017)

MARSOC has a million dollar advertising campaign and dozens of recruiters. Recon doesn't have any of that. All we have is a standard that 70% of Marines fail to meet and that challenge seems to attract the right people to our doorstep. Your career planner will know what paperwork needs to be submitted. You can also contact the I&I at whatever recon unit you want to associate with. I  know most of them and can put you in touch with someone if want. Try the website first though.


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

Teufel said:


> MARSOC has a million dollar advertising campaign and dozens of recruiters. Recon doesn't have any of that. All we have is a standard that 70% of Marines fail to meet and that challenge seems to attract the right people to our doorstep. Your career planner will know what paperwork needs to be submitted. You can also contact the I&I at whatever recon unit you want to associate with. I  know most of them and can put you in touch with someone if want. Try the website first though.



Talked to my career planner and he's gonna find out what paperwork I need and what needs to be done. While I wanted to wait to pick up Corporal, I'll be fine trying for it as a Lance. Roughly how long do you think this process would take? Because it's possible I'll pick up within a year. I'm close.


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## Teufel (Mar 31, 2017)

Promoting to corporal isn't an issue. BRC will even take sergeants.

I don't know how long the process takes, I don't normally work on the reserve side.


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Promoting to corporal isn't an issue. BRC will even take sergeants.
> 
> I don't know how long the process takes, I don't normally work on the reserve side.



Yeah it was kinda just a milestone a wanted to reach, but like you said, it's not an issue. I appreciate all the help. If you have any tips for preparing, I'm all ears haha.


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## Teufel (Mar 31, 2017)

You can search on here for training tips. I have noticed that all the NSW/PJ/CCT training plans also work for BRC since those pipelines require a lot of pool work in addition to all the land PT.


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

Teufel said:


> You can search on here for training tips. I have noticed that all the NSW/PJ/CCT training plans also work for BRC since those pipelines require a lot of pool work in addition to all the land PT.


Sounds good. Thanks


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

@Teufel 

One of my SSgts (went through 90% of MARSOC pipeline before dropping due to family issues) told me that Recon wasn't exactly considered "Special Operations". Now whether or not this is true isn't changing my mind, but how true is that statement?


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## Teufel (Mar 31, 2017)

Family issues huh. Everyone has a tab or a story. Graduating a pipeline is like getting pregnant; 90% is closer to zero than it is to 100%. 

Special operations forces are officially defined in our joint doctrine as specialized forces belonging to SOCOM. Recon is not a part of SOCOM and as such cannot be SOF. That being said Marine Reconnaissance was considered to be the Marine Corps' SOF unit prior to the creation of SOCOM in 1987 and I think many saw it that way prior to the creation of MARSOC out of 1st and 2nd Force Recon Companies. I consider Recon to be a SOF-like force that often operates with the MEU performing SOF missions in direct support of the TSOCs.


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## Drangster (Mar 31, 2017)

So in that case, my understanding of them has pretty much gone down a lot lol. Without giving up OPSEC obviously or too much information, what does Recon's mission consist of vs MARSOC?


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## Teufel (Apr 1, 2017)

Drangster said:


> So in that case, my understanding of them has pretty much gone down a lot lol. Without giving up OPSEC obviously or too much information, what does Recon's mission consist of vs MARSOC?


Recon works for the Marine Corps and MARSOC works for SOCOM. The mission essential tasks are fairly similar although MARSOC has a heavy focus on training partner forces that recon does not have.


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## Drangster (Apr 1, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Recon works for the Marine Corps and MARSOC works for SOCOM. The mission essential tasks are fairly similar although MARSOC has a heavy focus on training partner forces that recon does not have.


Ok sounds great then. Looking forward to trying out for it then. Do you think it would be in my best interest to get in contact with a recon unit's I&I staff? If so, I'm not really sure what I'd even talk to them about


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## Teufel (Apr 1, 2017)

I would ask them how you can join their unit. They may have some insight into the process.


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## Drangster (Apr 1, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I would ask them how you can join their unit. They may have some insight into the process.


Roger that. I'll probably do that at some point then. I swear this is my last question. They just keep rolling in and I'm sure this is getting a bit annoying. But after a while in Recon, could I eventually get into a Reserve Force Recon unit? Trying to figure that exact process out too.


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## Drangster (Apr 1, 2017)

And I tried looking up the units online, but could you possibly get me some contact information for the San Antonio Unit? I believe that's Charlie Co


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## Drangster (Apr 1, 2017)

Disregard my last. I actually found the unit right after posting that


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## Teufel (Apr 1, 2017)

Drangster said:


> Roger that. I'll probably do that at some point then. I swear this is my last question. They just keep rolling in and I'm sure this is getting a bit annoying. But after a while in Recon, could I eventually get into a Reserve Force Recon unit? Trying to figure that exact process out too.


There is no difference between a reserve recon battalion company and a reserve Force Recon company other than the naming convention. There used to be a significant difference between the two on the active side but that is no longer always the case and varies from unit to unit.


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## Drangster (Apr 2, 2017)

Teufel said:


> There is no difference between a reserve recon battalion company and a reserve Force Recon company other than the naming convention. There used to be a significant difference between the two on the active side but that is no longer always the case and varies from unit to unit.


Ok. Also I just spoke with a SSgt who came to my unit from Snipers. Talked with him about the choice between both options also. How long would I be considered a "Roper" in the reserve side, considering how long the training pipeline is? I believe the pipeline is 2 years


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## Teufel (Apr 2, 2017)

You are a roper until you graduate BRC. That's the pipeline. Volunteer, MART (pre-BRC), BRC. Look up the Recon Training Company website and you'll find out more details. The rest of the schools are not considered part of the pipeline and you get those along the way.


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## Teufel (Apr 4, 2017)

Found an email for you. The Marines at recon_recruiting@usmc.mil may be able to get you additional information.


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## Liarsenic44 (Apr 12, 2017)

Will the unit pretty much send you to an available seat in BRC?


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## Teufel (Apr 12, 2017)

Liarsenic44 said:


> Will the unit pretty much send you to an available seat in BRC?



I don't fully understand your question but I'll give it a shot. The reserve units screen personnel and send them to BRPC/BRC if they pass when slots are available. I don't know how and when they assign you to their unit. Email recon_recruiting@usmc.mil and they will find that answer for you.


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## Liarsenic44 (Apr 13, 2017)

I think that hit it for me haha.

I've tried emailing that same address for a question but I never received an answer. Does 4th Force have a POC for recruiting? I've already talked to my PSR, but i'd also like to get some sort of communication line with an someone on station.


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## Teufel (Apr 14, 2017)

You can google their unit website and email their I&I. I don't know offhand who is there now.


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