# Professionalism in Group (?)



## WhiskeyBoarder (Mar 20, 2008)

Gentleman, 

A little context and then a quick question: 

I’ve been on this board before describing my indecisiveness in life.  Despite doing very well for myself academically since leaving active duty, I constantly have a yearning to return to the Army and become Special Forces-qualified.  The urge is especially intense on nights like this when I find myself unable to sleep and, randomly reading about 5th Group lineage in Vietnam...

The question: 

*Is the PROFESSIONALISM in Group all I expect it to be? * Honestly.

I am at the age and maturity level that should I return to active duty, I would be doing so as a desired career choice.  While I am happy to throw back cold ones with the boys, I find it more important to be surrounded by like-minded individuals focused on being the most that they can be professionally for their ODA.  I expect this professionalism to be abundant in Group, but then again, I have spent four years being greatly surprised with the ways the Army can disappoint.  

I hope this isn’t insulting; not my intent.  I just want to verify that the professionalism so associated with Group sill exists, as its presence would play a large factor in my possible return to duty. 

Thank you!

With Respect.


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## varsity (Mar 31, 2008)

We are at war.  People follow leaders.  If you want to be part of it.  Lead by example.  Shit or get off the pot.


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## The91Bravo (Mar 31, 2008)

The following opinion is from the outside looking in... on two separate occasions.

1st occasion:
1994-1997.. Supporting 5th SFG(A) from TMC8 on Ft Campbell
The professionalism is without comparison, second to none.  From the 18D standpoint of their medics preparing them for anything and everything, those guys would open the TMC, and I would lock it up when they left... simply doing prep work (on their own time) to assure their ODA was 100% ready for all contingencies.

2005-Present
Learning from and hanging out with team members, SOTIC Instructors(dudes that have been in forever)/students(new private/Sgt 18X's), Combat Divers, and their Urban guys.
Opinion:  As stated above.  When it comes to business and the tools used.  Laser's do not have the focus of these men.  When it comes to playing grabass... again.. second to none.  These guys will fuck someone up with their practical jokes..  (Work hard, play herder)  If I had the privilege of ever becoming an 18 series, I know those men would die for me to defend me.... There is no better example of professionalism... Anywhere.. Anytime...

I am humbly honored to call alot of those guys 'friends'... And they do not 'look down their noses' at an old broke conventional ex-soldier...

That's all I got

S
T91B


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## x SF med (Mar 31, 2008)

Think about this - after choosing to let others test you, just to be able to get tested - should you get selected, you commit two years to nothing but getting trained to become a new guy - where the training really begins, right now in live fire exercises on somebody else's turf.  If that's not dedication and professionalism, nothing is.

You are talking about joining a group of men who work in very small groups relying on each other's strengths, and learning from each other at all times - constantly cross training, constantly learning, constantly teaching.

There are a lot of College educated guys in group, and a great number who are not College educated -there is an innate intelligence, Situational Awareness and decisiveness that marks these men.  If you are waffling now, your indecision will be seen at selection and you will not make it.

Why are you worried a bout 5th Group lineage in Vietnam - look at the lineage of all the Groups over the past ten years - the citations for Valor, the ultimate sacrifices.  Look at how little was written about the Groups in the 80's - during the 'wind down' of the Cold War - not that ther was nothing to write, but the mission did not garner the press it does now.

Be prepared to live the initial mission statement: "To train, advise, oranize and assist indiginous forces in their fights against oppressive governments."  Those indiginous forces could be Mujahadeen, Druze, Hutu, Anti-FARC forces, or even other units in the US Military.

SF is known as "The Quiet Professionals" for a reason.

Your questioning, yet again - proves you are not ready for SF.  Sorry - just my opinion, but it is based on intel you supplied, and careful observation of the target.

Have a very SF day.
De Oppresso Liber


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## Snaquebite (Mar 31, 2008)

Sounds to me like you're questioning whether YOU want to work with them. You should wonder if you are good enough for them to want to work with YOU.

OUT


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 31, 2008)

varsity said:


> We are at war.  People follow leaders.  If you want to be part of it.  Lead by example.  Shit or get off the pot.



X1000000000000000000000000000000

While at war the army flex’s in all different ways, some standards drop and some are increased. Some units suffer and some get better, that’s just they way it happens.

You need to make a choice in your mind and stick with it, once you are there then make the next move using the same method.

You don’t leave cover while taking fire, unless you have already picked your next place of cover. Once you step out of cover (if you want to live) you commit and don’t stop until you are where you need to be…


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## Rabid Badger (Mar 31, 2008)

WhiskeyBoarder said:


> The question:
> 
> *Is the PROFESSIONALISM in Group all I expect it to be? *



*There is only one true way to know the answer to that question, and you know the way.*

:2c:


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## irnbndr (Mar 31, 2008)

Snaquebite said:


> Sounds to me like you're questioning whether YOU want to work with them. You should wonder if you are good enough for them to want to work with YOU.
> 
> OUT



Well said SGM.


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## x SF med (Mar 31, 2008)

WB-
You do realize, that should you make it to Selection, and/or the Q - there will be instructors who know who you are and will test your professionalism every single minute, right?  Not a threat or intimidation, a reminder how small and tightly knit the SF community is.


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## car (Mar 31, 2008)

varsity said:


> We are at war.  People follow leaders.  If you want to be part of it.  Lead by example.  Shit or get off the pot.



I"m not a "Group Guy" or anything like that, so I can't speak to working with them day in and day out. But I've worked with them in a lot of situations. They are mostly the best Soldiers in your formation - although you're gonna have fucksticks in every population - but they're mostly the most professional Soldiers with whom I've worked - in almost 27 years.  
 :2c:


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## Paddlefoot (Apr 1, 2008)

car said:


> I"m not a "Group Guy" or anything like that, so I can't speak to working with them day in and day out. But I've worked with them in a lot of situations. They are mostly the best Soldiers in your formation - although you're gonna have fucksticks in every population - but they're mostly the most professional Soldiers with whom I've worked - in almost 27 years.
> :2c:



I only had limited contact with them for the 4 years I served, but you can tell the difference right off the bat. You specifically mentioned the 5th Group, and during my 2 years at DLI I observed members of that specific Grp in numerous situations, including conducting our recurrent quarterly training in common skills.

I remember hearing early on their performance during the Gulf War, in particular a couple of teams that were seemingly trapped with no way out. Based on the attitudes and professionalism of a few of the guys I had met, I wasn't surprised by the successful outcomes of their missions.

Good luck, regardless of which path you decide to take.


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## jester281 (Apr 17, 2008)

There is always that small % of clowns that make it thru selection, I went before therewas one, according to Gen. Potter, " one of the last easy classes". Col. Nick Rowe was running things when i went thru as a 18B. Check the lineage on that. Five years to freedom. I spent most of my "adult" life in group and don't regret that choice. Don't get me wrong, it is still the ARMY but there was nowhere else i was given so much lattitude to succed or fail.


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## Rabid Badger (Apr 17, 2008)

WB, if you're in Tampa, your question should be rhetorical as your around *'them'* all day, everyday.....

Like V said, shit or get off the pot. Grab your nuts and sign the line. 

:2c:


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## WhiskeyBoarder (Apr 20, 2008)

Everyone whom responded: 

Thank you for your always blunt, informative responses.  As for my lack of reply, during busier periods I tend to only check one military related message board and there I typically only lurk.  I found some extra time today and was thankful to see all of these replies here.  

First, let me thank everyone for understanding the tact with which I attempted to pose the question.  I wasn’t questioning the integrity of the unit, although I would have understood had my original post been understood as doing such.  But, as an important decision in my life, I wanted to cover all bases.  Nothing would be more disappointing than devoting full dedication and anticipation only to find the goal I so covet something other than expected.  The responses here have overwhelmingly proven what I had already assumed: that I would find exactly the professional military environment in which I was searching should I successfully make it to Group.  

Thank you for the comments. 

Also, as it has been pointed out, I am in the Tampa area (near USF to be specific).  I do my rucking at a local park.  If anyone is in the area and interested in meeting, training, etc – feel free to drop me a PM. 

With Respect.


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