# Looking at going SF



## Hitman2/3 (Sep 7, 2007)

As some of you may know I'm a former 0321 (Recon Marine). I was thinking about going back into the Marine Corps to MARSOC but after talking to a few buddies who are back there it sounds like the same old BS just a different name and with more money. So I'm now, as I have before, am thinking of going the SF route. I just had a few questions that I know you motivators have the answers to. 

Assuming that I don't get sloted as an 18D how long is the pipeline starting from selection to graduation? I'm already Airborne qualed and I don't think it matters but I'm a SERE (Navy) School graduate.

What are deployment lengths like for an ODA? Both peace time and know. 

Overall how much time is spent on the home front? I.E. between training, schools, deployments, etc. 

I'm married to a former Army LVN who is very supportive, so she knows the deal and she's all for it, but I just want to make sure its as fair as possible to her. I know on the Marine Corps side of things it was actually pretty nice, go out for a week or so once a month, hit the range here and there, maybe a CAX, deploy for six and you may be home for two or more years (before the war kicked off). 

Any other advice you guys have would be helpfull and appreciated.


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## x SF med (Sep 7, 2007)

Figure at least a year in training, minimum.
You will have to go through SERE.

You will probably not be home very much.
It will not be fair to your wife.

If you want to stay home, do not go SF.
If you do not trust your wife, do not go SF.
If you have any doubts, do not go SF.

Before you do anything, talk to an SF recruiter.  If you do not get selected out of SFAS, you will be eliglible for reassignment at the needs of the Army. Same goes if you wash out of SFQC.

Think 82nd Airplane gang if you don't make it.

Straight info to the best of my ability - no holds barred.


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## EATIII (Sep 7, 2007)

x SF med said:


> Figure at least a year in training, minimum.
> You will have to go through SERE.
> 
> You will probably not be home very much.
> ...



Thats a lot of good advice, did they change the no prior service 18x deals, or is this a Rep 63 with the Guard?


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## Hitman2/3 (Sep 7, 2007)

Good deal that is exactly what I was looking for. 

I trust my wife without question as she has proven herself time after time. 

Since I contract I'm always gone anyway, more so than when I was in. 

And what ever I do I do it all the way or not at all. I've always got a back up plan but I don't even consider not passing selection or the Q course. Not saying it can't happen just that failure is unexceptable in my book.

Thanks for the good info.


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## JustAnotherJ (Sep 7, 2007)

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck man.  Hope everything goes well


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## 18C4V (Sep 7, 2007)

Try the NG SF route. My jr 18C came from Force Recon and he graduated from the Q last Oct.


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## surgicalcric (Sep 8, 2007)

Eyes said:
			
		

> NG SF route is the way to go because once you're done, you can then just go AD...



While the NG route is the way to go if you want more choices over your career.  I have to take issue with the reasoning you use.  I am not trying to sharpshoot you, but that is piss poor advice.

First, the NG has neither the budget or the desire to be a means to get guys to AD.  We have a mission, and it isn't to provide the 5 AD Groups with trained soldiers, thats what the 18X and inservice recruiting programs are for

Secondly there is absolutely no guarantee the Group commander will sign the release allowing a soldier to transfer to AD.  I know it wont happen in 20th Group.

Crip


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## surgicalcric (Sep 8, 2007)

*thread hijack of sorts...*



			
				Eyes said:
			
		

> ...A lot of guys have done it and I put it out there because It's a simple fact...



I see we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this issue.

With regard to the number of times it has happened, having happened doesn't justify it or make it an appropriate means of getting on AD.  As an aside, it doesn't take near the funds or time to graduate a LRS, MP's, Infantry soldier...  As well, there is a difference between enlisting with the intention of USING the NG as a stepstool to the AD side of the house and being there, etsing and going over, or vise-versa.

Would you suggest said individuals be upfront, with the CO and CSM when interviewing, about their intentions to use the NG to segway into AD?  And it is a questions asked.  I dont know about other NG SF companies, but anyone who approaches 20th Groups CO stating such will not be enlisting in 20th.  In fact, I had a conversation earlier today while at the MUIC about this subject; the Batt DCo said 30 requests are sitting on the CO's desk, denied.

Just some food for thought.

Oh, best of luck what ever you choose hitman2/3

Crip


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## Hitman2/3 (Sep 8, 2007)

Man you guys provide some good info. I thought about going the NG route. Still considering it. Never thought about  LRS though. I live in Dallas, so correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their a SFNG unit here somewhere in Texas? 

The only thing with the NG, at least as a longterm career choice is that both myself and my wife miss military life. Not only the job but the community and friends.  Right now we have a nice house in a nice suburbian enviornment, but other than the house we can't stand it. There is almost no one around us who can even remotely relate to us. When I first met my neigbor I told him I was in security the first thing he said was "Oh IT security". When I explained I was contractor he was like "OOOHHHHHH, a mercinary" and more or less just left. 

I know you guys who are out can relate. You go from jumping out of planes swimming in the ocean blowning stuff up and accomplishing things that your average person can't even think of, to listening to some clown talk about how the traffic on his way home made him want to cry.  Its pretty sad.


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## AWP (Sep 8, 2007)

5/19 SFG(A) just stood up a company in TX.

Crip? 18C4V? Help a brother out with the rest?


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## surgicalcric (Sep 8, 2007)

19th Group recently stood up Cco 5/19th SFG(A) at Camp Bullis, near San Antonio as a matter of fact.

NGTX-SF@ng.army.mil or call or call (512) 782-5949. 

They can answer any questions you have in regards to NG, SF, and NGSF.

Also feel free to ask any questions you have regarding SFAS or the SFQC.

HTH,

Crip


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## Centermass (Sep 8, 2007)

x SF med said:


> Figure at least a year in training, minimum.
> You will have to go through SERE.
> 
> You will probably not be home very much.
> ...





Hitman2/3 said:


> The only thing with the NG, at least as a longterm career choice is that both myself and my wife miss military life. Not only the job but the community and friends.



I put this quote back here to reinforce what SF med already stated. Out of a dozen plus buddies of mine who were at various places within group, very few of the marriages survived (3 that I can think of) 

You may miss the life, the job, community and friends, but should you choose this route, it will definitely test all aspects of matrimony in ways you haven't thought of yet. 

Not trying to rain and your parade or anything, and if you choose this route, good luck with your choice and may you be successful Q-wise and on the homefront as well.


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## Hitman2/3 (Sep 8, 2007)

I hear you thanks for the heads up. Everything you guys have passed on to me has been very helpful and I appreciate it.


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## Snaquebite (Sep 8, 2007)

I'ts not about _"deciding"_ to attempt SF. It's about _"committing" _to attempt SF.


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## x SF med (Sep 8, 2007)

Snaquebite said:


> I'ts not about _"deciding"_ to attempt SF. It's about _"committing" _to attempt SF.



Good point SGM - although it does seem that SF chooses you, you don't choose SF, some of the "baddest" seemingly most SF guys going through prephase and the Q with me failed - for no other reason than they just didn't have "it" in some way shape or form - and yes, there is an "it" - we had Rangers fail, Marine Recon, and guys on SF contracts (18 series came in while I was at Group my first SF MOS was 11B3S2CC2, which became an 18 series in late 84, early 85) - one of the biggest dropping points was that SF was not Ranger enough for the studs, or too academic for others...

Hitman-  research, research, research - and remember the FIRST MISSION OF SF is still:
"To train, advise, organize and assist indigenous forces in their fights against opprressive governments."  IOW- FID/UW/CA missions, don't think high speed door kickers - think teacher, trainer, diplomat.

okay, rant over.


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## Snaquebite (Sep 8, 2007)

> one of the biggest dropping points was that SF was not Ranger enough for the studs, or too academic for others...



I agree, but I will venture to say that the "proper" committment could have changed some of that outcome. Of course it wouldn't/couldn't occur in all of those who failed. Some will never be able to "fit" into SF nor should they.  However those who can recognize those requirements and have the ability to adapt usually can.

Proper commitment for SF requires a multitude of open yet positive attitudes and the ability to accept that personal change is sometimes inevitable in order to reach a goal. I have never met a person who didn't say that the accomplishment of attaining the qualification of "Special Forces" didn't change them and enable them to learn more about their self.


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## surgicalcric (Sep 8, 2007)

Snaquebite said:


> ...I have never met a person who didn't say that the accomplishment of attaining the qualification of "Special Forces" didn't change them and enable them to learn more about their self.



I can attest to that statement.

Crip


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## 18C4V (Sep 10, 2007)

I  find it in my experience that things differ from company to company going all the way up to Group level with guys going AD SF. 19th Group at least in my BN is 180 degrees opposite from 20th Group. In our company it's a matter of bodies and numbers if we lose one or two to AD then it's the cost of doing business because ultimately it's the state who has the imput since state controls the soldier, not bn or group.

My company and bn has lost guys to AD but it's the cost of doing business. Besides on a deployment everyone jumps on the bandwagon. We got guys from 1 and 2/19th with us here.

As for LRS or SF, in our state we have a very good rapport with the LRSD here. Guys who don't make it though the SFQC (for whatever reason) tgo to LRS. Some stay there and excell and others come back. Also guys from LRSD come to our unit so it's a good recruiting tool, people leave and people come in.


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## carlos (Aug 11, 2008)

Hitman2/3 said:


> I was thinking about going back into the Marine Corps to MARSOC but after talking to a few buddies who are back there it sounds like the same old BS just a different name and with more money.



what do you mean by "it sounds like the same old BS"? 

what's the difference now that they have more money?


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## x SF med (Aug 11, 2008)

carlos said:


> what do you mean by "it sounds like the same old BS"?
> 
> what's the difference now that they have more money?



Look listen and learn - don't expect people to give you the answers.  Ask about the USMC culture and why Hitman was unhappy.  It's not about the money.


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## AWP (Aug 11, 2008)

carlos said:


> what do you mean by "it sounds like the same old BS"?



Every service, EVERY job from mess specialist to SEAL, has some negative to it when you strip away the veneer. There's "BS" in everything. The commercials would have you believe that you spend all day shooting, jumping, diving, whatever. Or maybe you joined to be an IT guy and work on servers and networks. 

I promise you when you get to where you are going, wherever that maybe and whatever you are doing, the reality and the hype won't be the same.

You have to decide if doing the job outweighs the negatives.


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## carlos (Aug 12, 2008)

x SF med said:


> Look listen and learn - don't expect people to give you the answers.  Ask about the USMC culture and why Hitman was unhappy.  It's not about the money.


Let me rephrase the question then:

Question for Hitman2/3: why where you unhappy as a 0321?

Question for “x SF med”: do you know why Hitman2/3 was unhappy?


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 12, 2008)

carlos said:


> Let me rephrase the question then:
> 
> Question for Hitman2/3: why where you unhappy as a 0321?
> 
> Question for “x SF med”: do you know why Hitman2/3 was unhappy?



Even though this question has already pretty much been answered by several of these fine gentlemen let me clarify. I wasn't unhappy doing the job of an 0321. I loved my job the mission and the Marines and Sailors I worked with, which is one of the reasons I decided to go back into the Marine Corps. The same old shit is the politics and dick measuring contest that occurred outside of our sphere of influence that often ended up affecting us in one way or another. The reality is that no matter where you go these things will always exist in one way or another. As my brother in arms stated its just a matter of deciding rather the good out weighs the bad, and can you deal with it.  

On a second note be careful of what you type, because rather you ment to or not your words look like your coming off as a smart ass to x SF med, which would not be a wise decision if you plan on sticking around here for any length of time.


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## P. Beck (Aug 12, 2008)

Hitman,

Nobody does this job for the money.
That having been said, factor this into your thinking:

An 18 series soldier recieves, monthly, in addition to his base pay, BAH, BAS, etc.:

Jump pay
SDAP-5 ($375.00 per month):)
And as of the USASOC CSM this afternoon, Demo pay (another $150 a month):)

He can also get:

Dive Pay:cool:
HALO pay:cool:

MARSOC don't get demo pay.

Like I said, we don't do it for the money, but, as long as we're at it anyway, it's nice to have the cash too. Just some food for thought.


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## x SF med (Aug 12, 2008)

P.Beck-
I think Hitman was saying it's not about the money - but even though his old unit is now getting more money - the BS still outweighed the personal need to do the job - and therefore - SF would be the better route for him.

I agree with you - if you're already doing the job, a few more  dead presidents in the account are always helpful...  but it is about the job, not about the green.


Ok - now that we're all in agreement here, who's buying the coffee, beer schnapps, etc...


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## Rabid Badger (Aug 12, 2008)

x SF med said:


> Ok - now that we're all in agreement here, *who's buying the coffee, beer schnapps, etc*...



Me, on the 23rd!! ---->;)

Seriously, if it were all about the money, we'd all be in the *Air Force *and there wouldn't be an *Army*.

:uhh:


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## x SF med (Aug 12, 2008)

You get freshly picked serrano peppers and MGD - I on the other hand will be swilling Moose Drool (or some other amber or brown ale), eating buffalo burgers and laughing at you ...

Oh, sorry - on the 23rd, we'll treat you right - it's after that we'll abuse you.


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## Hitman2/3 (Aug 12, 2008)

LOL, True true. However I wasn't talking about personal money I was talking about the unit budget. But then again a little extra change in your pocket never hurts.


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## carlos (Aug 13, 2008)

Freefalling said:


> Every service, EVERY job from mess specialist to SEAL, has some negative to it when you strip away the veneer. There's "BS" in everything. The commercials would have you believe that you spend all day shooting, jumping, diving, whatever. Or maybe you joined to be an IT guy and work on servers and networks.
> 
> I promise you when you get to where you are going, wherever that maybe and whatever you are doing, the reality and the hype won't be the same.
> 
> You have to decide if doing the job outweighs the negatives.





Hitman2/3 said:


> Even though this question has already pretty much been answered by several of these fine gentlemen let me clarify. I wasn't unhappy doing the job of an 0321. I loved my job the mission and the Marines and Sailors I worked with, which is one of the reasons I decided to go back into the Marine Corps. The same old shit is the politics and dick measuring contest that occurred outside of our sphere of influence that often ended up affecting us in one way or another. The reality is that no matter where you go these things will always exist in one way or another. As my brother in arms stated its just a matter of deciding rather the good out weighs the bad, and can you deal with it.
> 
> On a second note be careful of what you type, because rather you ment to or not your words look like your coming off as a smart ass to x SF med, which would not be a wise decision if you plan on sticking around here for any length of time.



*Freefalling and Hitman2/3*: Great answers, good advice, thanks…
:)


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