# Tim Kennedy: "I have killed kids and women..."



## benroliver (Sep 3, 2016)

I wanted to state for the record that I have the utmost respect for Tim as a Soldier and a fighter, I would consider myself extremely successful if I accomplished a fraction of what he has. This is more a question about the social media postings, which are getting mainstream attention, and what you guys as a community think.  I cant really say I have an opinion one way or the other because I am simply not in a position to understand, his MMA rants are not on this level.  He posted it on Twitter and the news buzzards are circling.  



'I’ve killed kids & women during war' - UFC fighter Tim Kennedy


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## policemedic (Sep 3, 2016)

I don't know that he's killed women and children.  However, every bullet hits something or someone and in this setting it is often not the intended target; every piece of ordnance dropped kills people.  We like to think it's the enemy but we understand that isn't always the case.


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## digrar (Sep 3, 2016)

Just because he's walked in their boots on ops, doesn't mean he's walked in their shoes back home. Doing a bit of PT and having a positive mind set might be fine if you're a bit sad, but if you've got full on psychological issues, it's not going to fix fuck all. If he ever puts the rope around his neck, opens the bottle of pills, swallows a barrel, and hopefully he never gets to that point, he'll potentially have a different view point.


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## racing_kitty (Sep 3, 2016)

If you've ever found yourself in the position where you've taken, or nearly taken the life of a woman or child, whether purposefully or accidentally, you had better have a damned solid coping mechanism on hand. It sounds like this is Tim's. I'm not going to bag on him for it. It may work for someone else, and not so well for others. So long as he doesn't condemn a brother to the darkness when he needs help, I'm not going to judge for shit. 

Even in the light of the mental health stigma, I didn't see a problem with his message, and my perspective is definitely a unique one. But it is, still, only my perspective.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 3, 2016)

That link doesn't work for me.


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## RackMaster (Sep 3, 2016)

I  agree with his message to an extent and I hope it doesn't cause those that truly need to reach out for help; he has a lot of influence.  I may not have been a hard charger like him but I put off seeking help; putting everything into work and PT for almost a decade. Which was not healthy.  

I hope it doesn't happen but I'm sure his demons will catch up once life slows down.  PTSD doesn't happen immediately after trauma, it affects us all differently and it can take years to appear.

As for the women and children, given the enemy we've been fighting; age and gender does not define them.  Fighting a culture that has very little respect for either women or children; lends itself to those casualties.


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## RackMaster (Sep 3, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> That link doesn't work for me.



It's an RT story.
'I’ve killed kids & women during war' - UFC fighter Tim Kennedy


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## Raksasa Kotor (Sep 3, 2016)

I think it warrants pointing out that your source - RT - is a blatant Russian propaganda outlet. They changed the link - I won't be posting the new one here; it can be found easily enough.


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## Raksasa Kotor (Sep 3, 2016)

Aaaand RackMaster beat me to the post reply button :wall:


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## RackMaster (Sep 3, 2016)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> Aaaand RackMaster beat me to the post reply button :wall:



I'm quick quick.    Even with a midget crawling all over me.


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## Sendero (Sep 3, 2016)

In reference to the killing of women and children. I am pretty sure he mentions it on the Jocko Willink podcast.  It sounded like a man was shooting at him and he fragged the room and the man's wife and kids were in the room. At least that is how I remember it from listening to the podcast a few weeks ago.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 3, 2016)

I respect Tim highly and hope that he is in a good state of mind.

Too many of our brothers and sisters are not.


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## benroliver (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks for the posts everyone.  The reason I posted it here is because I i figured we could get some actual discussion about a serious topic instead of the massive ignorance you find everywhere.  My cousin was hit by an IED while in the guard and his life has spiraled out of control.  As an Army family it is a hard thing for all of us to discuss.  I just hope that Tim's message is taken the right way and those truly suffering do not ignore seeking help.  My cousin turned to pain medications since the VA gave them to him like candy.


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## benroliver (Sep 3, 2016)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> I think it warrants pointing out that your source - RT - is a blatant Russian propaganda outlet. They changed the link - I won't be posting the new one here; it can be found easily enough.



That's what I mean in the original post by the "buzzards are circling."  I saw it first posted on MMA forums where most of his social media stuff ends up


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## Muppet (Sep 3, 2016)

I agree with him. I can also see how some may question him. I personally think, what ever makes you move forward and survive is how you should handle it, as @racing_kitty said. 

M.


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## AWP (Sep 3, 2016)

I think anyone saying PTSD is for pussies, or any variation of that thought, is doing a massive disservice to those with PTSD, especially those who are afraid to seek help.


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## SpitfireV (Sep 3, 2016)

The first link still works for me. It has his FB post for context. 

Tim Kennedy - Timeline | Facebook


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 3, 2016)

I follow him on Facebook and saw this post spark backlash from the beginning.  When I first read it, I thought it was pretty apparent that message he was trying to convey - then pitchfork nation got involved and it went south from there.


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## Muppet (Sep 4, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I think anyone saying PTSD is for pussies, or any variation of that thought, is doing a massive disservice to those with PTSD, especially those who are afraid to seek help.



Agreed. Maybe said without that tidbit would have been less harsh but otherwise, I get it.

M.


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## CDG (Sep 4, 2016)

I don't "Like" what you've been dealing with for years, Ocoka.  The Like is because I appreciate someone like you sharing your perspective.  Thank you for your service.


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## Brill (Sep 4, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> ...It's there forever...war becomes a part of your character. The best you'll ever do is accept it, find comfort in the company of your peers, and *over time learn to appreciate every positive thing, everyone who loves you and every fucking alive day.*



Amen.


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## Raksasa Kotor (Sep 4, 2016)

I think the torch bearing mob is focusing on the words and losing an important part of the message. I seriously doubt that Tim is calling anyone suffering from PTSD a pussy because they have PTSD. I do, however, think he is talking to the people suffering from PTSD who aren't trying to improve their situation.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 4, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Anybody who's been in the shit and says they weren't effected by it is a liar. I don't care how professional they are, how tough they are, if they've seen their brothers (or sisters) blown up or shot, if they've seen kids who've been burned or mutiliated, if they've been in contacts where innocent people get fucked up or die, if they think their bullets or fragments may have killed somebody that didn't ask for it, if they worked in combat trauma trying to put people back together, if they've seen their counterparts do some sick twisted shit, if they themselves have laid there bleeding in the dirt waiting for the enemy to come up and finish the job, no matter what the fucked up shit they have seen, it will fuck them up to some degree.
> 
> Look, I've seen torture, executions, burned children, a friend shot dead in front of me in a green on blue, seen buddies hit boobytraps, been hit myself and overrun, was more scared of being taken prisoner than I was that I might lose my left leg or foot or right eye, been in contacts where innocent people have been collaterals and nobody knows who's bullet or frag did the damage but you live with the guilt anyway...and if you doubt me PM me because I can attest or document all of it in vivid detail, living color. War is the most fucked up thing anybody can do, and if you've lived it, you know it. I don't watch much UFC so I'm not too familiar with all the fighters, but if this guy is trying to work out his demons by opening up, God bless him and I hope eventually he will come to terms with it...because there is no peace...It's there forever...war becomes a part of your character. The best you'll ever do is accept it, find comfort in the company of your peers, and over time learn to appreciate every positive thing, everyone who loves you and every fucking alive day.



Fucking well said.

Thank you for your service. It is the least I can say to a warrior like you.


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## Muppet (Sep 4, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> Anybody who's been in the shit and says they weren't effected by it is a liar. I don't care how professional they are, how tough they are, if they've seen their brothers (or sisters) blown up or shot, if they've seen kids who've been burned or mutiliated, if they've been in contacts where innocent people get fucked up or die, if they think their bullets or fragments may have killed somebody that didn't ask for it, if they worked in combat trauma trying to put people back together, if they've seen their counterparts do some sick twisted shit, if they themselves have laid there bleeding in the dirt waiting for the enemy to come up and finish the job, no matter what the fucked up shit they have seen, it will fuck them up to some degree.
> 
> Look, I've seen torture, executions, burned children, a friend shot dead in front of me in a green on blue, seen buddies hit boobytraps, been hit myself and overrun, was more scared of being taken prisoner than I was that I might lose my left leg or foot or right eye, been in contacts where innocent people have been collaterals and nobody knows who's bullet or frag did the damage but you live with the guilt anyway...and if you doubt me PM me because I can attest or document all of it in vivid detail, living color. War is the most fucked up thing anybody can do, and if you've lived it, you know it. I don't watch much UFC so I'm not too familiar with all the fighters, but if this guy is trying to work out his demons by opening up, God bless him and I hope eventually he will come to terms with it...because there is no peace...It's there forever...war becomes a part of your character. The best you'll ever do is accept it, find comfort in the company of your peers, and over time learn to appreciate every positive thing, everyone who loves you and every fucking alive day.



Christ bro. Well said.

M.


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## RackMaster (Sep 4, 2016)

Raksasa Kotor said:


> I think the torch bearing mob is focusing on the words and losing an important part of the message. I seriously doubt that Tim is calling anyone suffering from PTSD a pussy because they have PTSD. I do, however, think he is talking to the people suffering from PTSD who aren't trying to improve their situation.



Agreed.

But the problem is that for some it's not all that easy to reach out for help.  The demons overtake and they lose the energy to fight.  I've seen so many hiding in their basements and have no idea shits that bad.  The "suck it up" attitudes don't help, it just drives them deeper into the hole.  Until we as a community accept that it's just another injury, like a broken leg and help each other heal; brothers and sisters will keep offing themselves.  There's shit bags every where that milk the system and will always be.  But it's not us to call them out, they may very well be hurting; each of our melons get fucked up by different shit.  Doesn't mean anyone needs help less than the other.


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## Muppet (Sep 4, 2016)

RackMaster said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But the problem is that for some it's not all that easy to reach out for help.  The demons overtake and they lose the energy to fight.  I've seen so many hiding in their basements and have no idea shits that bad.  The "suck it up" attitudes don't help, it just drives them deeper into the hole.  Until we as a community accept that it's just another injury, like a broken leg and help each other heal; brothers and sisters will keep offing themselves.  There's shit bags every where that milk the system and will always be.  But it's not us to call them out, they may very well be hurting; each of our melons get fucked up by different shit.  Doesn't mean anyone needs help less than the other.



Same for emergency services. Kenny took his life and I wished he had reached out to me like I did to him back in 2013. People are finally opening their eyes and minds to emergency services PTSD.

M.


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## RackMaster (Sep 4, 2016)

Muppet said:


> Same for emergency services. Kenny took his life and I wished he had reached out to me like I did to him back in 2013. Pole are finally opening their eyes and minds to emergency services PTSD.
> 
> M.



Agreed.  They are finally getting official recognition up here and the support they need.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 4, 2016)

RackMaster said:


> Agreed.  They are finally getting official recognition up here and the support they need.



We have some groups doing something for our city cops. Ah...there was a dinner with poles and other people basically trying to form a support group that would be non profit and run off donations for cops to provide them with support in relation to mental health.


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## SpitfireV (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm not quite sure if it's in the same category as PTSD but our child abuse team have to have mandatory counseling for having to look at those images/videos day in and day out and it's really affected some of them in a big way.


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## AWP (Sep 4, 2016)

SpitfireV said:


> I'm not quite sure if it's in the same category as PTSD but our child abuse team have to have mandatory counseling for having to look at those images/videos day in and day out and it's really affected some of them in a big way.



I seriously considered trying to make the switch to computer forensics until I read about that aspect of the job. I could look at a lot of messed up things, but not that.


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## SpitfireV (Sep 4, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I seriously considered trying to make the switch to computer forensics until I read about that aspect of the job. I could look at a lot of messed up things, but not that.



They're the guys I have the most respect for in the whole Service. The investigators only have to look at their particular images they're dealing with, the forensics guys deal and categorise *everything*.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 4, 2016)

Not everyone experiences things the same. Tim


SpitfireV said:


> I'm not quite sure if it's in the same category as PTSD but our child abuse team have to have mandatory counseling for having to look at those images/videos day in and day out and it's really affected some of them in a big way.



My wife was a child protective services investigator,  we actually had to move because of that job. Some shit just can't be unseen, and alters people's personal reality. Nothing can break you down faster than having all your beliefs and ideas ripped apart by reality...sucks


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## RackMaster (Sep 5, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> QFT. It's those that keep it locked inside who end up  drinking or worse.
> 
> I found comfort finding my long-lost brothers after many years and discovering they  had dealt with similar issues. I still find comfort in the company of warriors and military people. Shadowspear itself is not insignificant in that regard. I've written things on this forum I can't comfortably talk about with my wife and grown sons...and I suspect there are others here who've benefitted emotionally by the friendships and connections they've made here.
> 
> It's important whether you're a warrior or in an occupation where you often encounter disturbing images and events to try to find people you can talk to, maybe people with similar backgrounds. Rejoice in the love of your family and friends, but if they haven't BTDT they may be at a loss to give you real understanding.



Completely agree!  Our extended "Family" has so much importance in staying healthy.  But having a supportive Family/Spouse/Significant Other, whether they completely understand or not is also important.   I wouldn't be here or the man I am today without my Partner in Crime and Midget.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 5, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Not everyone experiences things the same. Tim
> 
> 
> My wife was a child protective services investigator,  we actually had to move because of that job. Some shit just can't be unseen, and alters people's personal reality. Nothing can break you down faster than having all your beliefs and ideas ripped apart by reality...sucks



Our commander in Afghanistan felt the same way about our interrogators, some of whom had been in-country for years at a time.  "Get them home... doing this job for so long does something do your soul."


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