# Popcorn Lung from E-Cigs



## The Accountant (Dec 9, 2015)

Figured I should share this article for those who may use E-Cigs/Vapes or whatever you wish to call these things... Seems there is evidence that it could very well cause bronchiolitis obliterans (Popcorn lung). 

Be safe.

Chemical flavorings found in e-cigarettes linked to lung disease


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## DocIllinois (Dec 9, 2015)

From the FDA.gov page on e-cigs:

"E-cigarettes have not been fully studied, so consumers currently don’t know:

  -  the potential risks of e-cigarettes when used as intended,
  -  how much nicotine or other potentially harmful chemicals are being inhaled during use, or
  -  whether there are any benefits associated with using these products."


An irreversible, life threatening obstructive lung disease from unstudied chemicals or life threatening cancer of the lungs (and various other places.)

Such decisions for those who smoke!


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## policemedic (Dec 9, 2015)

Simple solution.

Don't smoke or vape.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 9, 2015)

DocIllinois said:


> From the FDA.gov page on e-cigs:
> 
> "E-cigarettes have not been fully studied, so consumers currently don’t know:
> 
> ...



If it gets bad enough, they'll just market it as a dietary suppliment. That will take the FDA out of the picture:wall:. The crap that is on the market today, claiming instant cures for anything you can think of.

As an side note: Doc, it is good to see you on our forums; it took ya long enough to get your butt over here.


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## DocIllinois (Dec 9, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> If it gets bad enough, they'll just market it as a dietary suppliment. That will take the FDA out of the picture:wall:. The crap that is on the market today, claiming instant cures for anything you can think of.




This speaks to a lack of basic scientific literacy in general, IMO, and the trend of self studying and doctoring.






Up to the the recent past, making the point on legitimate vs. BS remedies was a simple explanation of the extensive (~10 years) and expensive (~2.6 billion) process of taking a compound that may have a clinical application through FDA testing, trials and approval.

Now I have patients coming _already_ considering the use of things like "essential oils", homeopathic nonsense,  or whatever is in the little packet that the super-jacked guy at GNC gave them as serious alternatives.  :wall::wall:




Red Flag 1 said:


> As an side note: Doc, it is good to see you on our forums; it took ya long enough to get your butt over here.



Yeah, I get around to stuff sometimes.


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## Centermass (Dec 9, 2015)

"Popcorn Lung?" Never heard of it........


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## x SF med (Dec 9, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> As an side note: Doc, it is good to see you on our forums; it took ya long enough to get your butt over here



@DocIllinois  is a slacker :wall:...  you should know that by now...  jeez RF1, you are getting a bit slow lately...


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## AWP (Dec 9, 2015)

Wait, inhaling chemicals and particles into your lungs is bad for you? Good stuff to know! I'm glad they finally made a breakthrough....


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## DocIllinois (Dec 9, 2015)

x SF med said:


> @DocIllinois  is a slacker :wall:...  you should know that by now...  jeez RF1, you are getting a bit slow lately...



Only where turning in an OER support form on time is concerned.

And laying off the '80s movies.


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## The Accountant (Dec 9, 2015)

DocIllinois said:


> or whatever is in the little packet that the super-jacked guy at GNC gave them as serious alternatives.  :wall::wall:


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## Muppet (Dec 9, 2015)

Plus people look like a fucking dick head tool sucking on some pipe in public, smelling like pancakes or flowers. Can you say hipster?

M.


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## policemedic (Dec 10, 2015)

Muppet said:


> Plus people look like a fucking dick head tool sucking on some pipe in public, smelling like pancakes or flowers. Can you say hipster?
> 
> M.



They have to satisfy their oral fixation somehow and public fellatio is frowned upon....


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 10, 2015)

Muppet said:


> Plus people look like a fucking dick head tool sucking on some pipe in public, smelling like pancakes or flowers. Can you say hipster?
> 
> M.



It's the look of arrogance that really bugs the hell out of me, just slightly more than the stupid smell.  I won't judge them for doing it (unfortunately I fell into the smoking habit in my late teens, Marlboros being my vice.  I like it, what can I say) but don't act like you're high and above me.  As was said, at least I can look up what's killing me.  These fuckers act like they've found a way to get nicotine, without any side effects.  Smugness usually breeds stupidity, I guess.  In my case, stupid breeds stupid, but at least I'm not a prick about it.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 12, 2015)

Good friends father (80yrs old) been smoking since he was 11, used to tell the doctor's "when" every time he was told smoking would kill him, got told that he has throat cancer. Watched his son in tears, while he lit another cigarette... IDK what to think of that.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Good friends father (80yrs old) been smoking since he was 11, used to tell the doctor's every time he was told smoking would kill him, that he has throat cancer. Watched his son in tears, while he lit another cigarette... IDK what to think of that.



It is a very hard addiction to step away from, and not everyone can do it. My grand father smoked Camels up to the day he died, @ 85. That was in '68, and the anti smoking push was still far away. I have a brother in law who is on oxygen 24/7 because of his COPD from smoking; smoking while on oxygen no less. The only answer is that," it is what it is". There is nothing anyone can do to stop someone from smoking.


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## DA SWO (Dec 12, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Good friends father (80yrs old) been smoking since he was 11, used to tell the doctor's "when" every time he was told smoking would kill him, got told that he has throat cancer. Watched his son in tears, while he lit another cigarette... IDK what to think of that.


My mom stopped smoking when she couldn't work the lighter, died 10 days later from cancer.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 12, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> It is a very hard addiction to step away from, and not everyone can do it. My grand father smoked Camels up to the day he died, @ 85. That was in '68, and the anti smoking push was still far away. I have a brother in law who is on oxygen 24/7 because of his COPD from smoking; smoking while on oxygen no less. The only answer is that," it is what it is". There is nothing anyone can do to stop someone from smoking.



I've yet to try to quit, like I said the main problem stopping me is that I truly enjoy it too much.  Call me stupid for it, I fully understand just how stupid it sounds/is.  However I know a few that have tried, and quite unsuccessfully.  One of my co-workers gave Chantix (sp?) a shot, and it didn't work for him.  He said he would have terrible headaches, very bizarre nightmares, and it caused him to evidently sleep walk because he'd wake up in strange places in his house with no recollection of how he got there.  After a couple times of that he stopped taking it.  Another friend went the patch and gum route, and he stopped smoking for a few months but ended up hooked on the gum instead.  

I've come to the conclusion that when I get my shit together and decide to give it a shot, that the only proper way to do it is to just go cold turkey.  I know it'll be one of the hardest things I'll ever do, but dropping one addiction for another makes fuck all sense in my book.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 12, 2015)

BuckysBadger24 said:


> I've yet to try to quit, like I said the main problem stopping me is that I truly enjoy it too much.  Call me stupid for it, I fully understand just how stupid it sounds/is.  However I know a few that have tried, and quite unsuccessfully.  One of my co-workers gave Chantix (sp?) a shot, and it didn't work for him.  He said he would have terrible headaches, very bizarre nightmares, and it caused him to evidently sleep walk because he'd wake up in strange places in his house with no recollection of how he got there.  After a couple times of that he stopped taking it.  Another friend went the patch and gum route, and he stopped smoking for a few months but ended up hooked on the gum instead.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that when I get my shit together and decide to give it a shot, that the only proper way to do it is to just go cold turkey.  I know it'll be one of the hardest things I'll ever do, but dropping one addiction for another makes fuck all sense in my book.



I was a smoker, cigars, pipe, and Marlboros. The key ingredient to breaking the addiction is desire. If you have not found a reason to stop, you won't. You can try all the OTC and Rx out there, and it will be a waste of time and money. If you want motivation, consider this: You are running a gamble between two deadly things, and cancer is not one of them. 1. Cardiovascular effects can lead to heart attacks that you may or may not survive. If you survive and continue smoking, it will happen again to an already damaged heart muscle. 2. Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) is directly from smoking. There are small cillia, small hairs, that line a good portion of your lungs breathing tubes. They act as filters, and they move inhaled crap from deep in the lungs up to the parts of your airway that make you cough, and get rid of some of what has been inhaled. Smoking does two things to these cillia: first is that the cilliary movement stops, and you have stopped your lung's clearing ability. Second, after a few years of smoking, the cillia just do not grow back. Soooooo, you have small chronic subclinical(You Don't Know About It) lung infections going on throught both lung fields nearly all the time. This causes scaring in the lungs, and it becomes harder and harder to breath, exhaling in particular. At this point you are smoking while breathing oxygen, and struggeling to do much of anything at all; a true pulmonary cripple.

All that said, you are gambling that you have a massive heart attack and die from that, or you become a pulmonary cripple who will be having trouble moving enough air to talk, eat, stand and walk, etc. I have not even touched on the variety of cancers that smoking is directly linked to. There are things now available the can make it easier to stop. You have already thrown up roadblocks in your head for Chantix, and Nicorette. Because there are side effects for some, does not mean it will happen to you. I used Chantix, and it made it really very easy. I had no side effects, and continued to smoke while on Chantix. After about 5 or 6 days, I found that the desire to smoke dropped to zero. I found that if I smoked or not made no difference at all. I stopped buying Marlboros. I stopped smoking. I then went off the Chantix and I was a non-smoker. There are still times I would love a cigar, and a smoke of some sort. I have a small mantra in my head that says," just don't buy any today"; "just don't do it today".

The bottom line really, is you have to see the need to stop smoking. Without that nothing you try will work. We have a thread or two about this, use the search tool, and you will see where quite a few on this site have stopped smoking. It really is up to you, and today smoking is becoming more and more of a taboo. They make it pretty hard to smoke at work, and just about any place else. I'd say that there is plenty of incentive, you just have to tune into that and apply it to your life.


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## medicchick (Dec 12, 2015)

Best thing that helped me quit smoking was having to go outside.  When it's -20 out, you really have to decide if you want that smoke.  I also was sick of paying $8/pack (and this was 10 years ago) or more if I was outside of Anchorage or Wasilla.  I think I used a total of 5 pieces of Nicorette gum in the first few days then that was it.  The cold is what really did it.


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## policemedic (Dec 12, 2015)

I lost a brother from my former cop shop to smoking. He was an old school, true blue, "I'll take the bullet for you" cop who spent a good deal of his career as a decoy in what was known as the Granny Squad (if you know, you know).

They took a lobe out of one of his lungs secondary to lung CA.  A few weeks post-discharge he was smoking again.

@Red Flag 1 is right; you either want to quit or you don't.

@BuckysBadger24 when you say you won't quit because you like it too much, what you're really saying is, "I'm addicted."  I'm sure you know that, so man up and put the damn things down.  That said, it's your life.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 12, 2015)

Yeah I absolutely can appreciate what you're saying @RedFlag1.  I actually lurked that Kicking Tobacco thread to see what progress @Jay was making, and the difficulty of it really shown through.  Yet another gem on this forum you wouldn't expect to see.  I guess I misspoke, I'm not totally against any aids, I was just giving examples, but when I do decide to quit, I would like my first (and hopefully only) attempt to be cold turkey.  That said, if I were to fail I would certainly consider using a smoking aid to get the means to an end.  I just don't have the interest in doing so right now.  I know in this day and age, with all the literature and obviousness of its effects, that sounds insane, but I don't know a better way to put it.  My initial reason for making my statement was just to illustrate my feelings about a lot of the people that "vape" or whatever you wish to call it.  Apologies if I semi hijacked the thread.  

That said though, that is some absolutely great advice, and I do/will appreciate it when the time comes and my senses return.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 12, 2015)

policemedic said:


> I lost a brother from my former cop shop to smoking. He was an old school, true blue, "I'll take the bullet for you" cop who spent a good deal of his career as a decoy in what was known as the Granny Squad (if you know, you know).
> 
> They took a lobe out of one of his lungs secondary to lung CA.  A few weeks post-discharge he was smoking again.
> 
> ...



Your post beat mine, but of course you are correct.  However I think liking it does have a slight difference over addiction after a time.  Obviously I'm addicted, but I believe when someone wants to quit, they stop enjoying it, and the only reason whatsoever that they continue is because they have to.  I haven't stopped enjoying it yet, hence me not wanting to quit.

If the point I just made makes any sense to you.  I would understand if you said it didn't haha.


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## policemedic (Dec 13, 2015)

BuckysBadger24 said:


> Your post beat mine, but of course you are correct.  However I think liking it does have a slight difference over addiction after a time.  Obviously I'm addicted, but I believe when someone wants to quit, they stop enjoying it, and the only reason whatsoever that they continue is because they have to.  I haven't stopped enjoying it yet, hence me not wanting to quit.
> 
> If the point I just made makes any sense to you.  I would understand if you said it didn't haha.



The short answer is you like it because you're addicted. That's the biochemistry of it. 

By the way, the changes to the ventral tegmental area in your brain that began the addiction cycle started with your first cigarette.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 13, 2015)

policemedic said:


> The short answer is you like it because you're addicted. That's the biochemistry of it.
> 
> By the way, the changes to the ventral tegmental area in your brain that began the addiction cycle started with your first cigarette.



.... And no matter how I put it, it's a motherfucker either way.  When it finally clicks in my head, in so many words "man up and just do it" is the only general advice any smoker looking to quit really needs.  Believe me I know that everything else is on me.  Funny how that small statement generally applies to just about every situation in life ain't it.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 13, 2015)

BuckysBadger24 said:


> Yeah I absolutely can appreciate what you're saying @RedFlag1.  I actually lurked that Kicking Tobacco thread to see what progress @Jay was making, and the difficulty of it really shown through.  Yet another gem on this forum you wouldn't expect to see.  I guess I misspoke, I'm not totally against any aids, I was just giving examples, but when I do decide to quit, I would like my first (and hopefully only) attempt to be cold turkey.  That said, if I were to fail I would certainly consider using a smoking aid to get the means to an end.  I just don't have the interest in doing so right now.  I know in this day and age, with all the literature and obviousness of its effects, that sounds insane, but I don't know a better way to put it.  My initial reason for making my statement was just to illustrate my feelings about a lot of the people that "vape" or whatever you wish to call it.  Apologies if I semi hijacked the thread.
> 
> That said though, that is some absolutely great advice, and I do/will appreciate it when the time comes and my senses return.



I don't think you have "hijacked" the thread. In fact it would surprise me if tobacco use did not come up. When the time comes, I wish you the best of luck. If you want to chat about it a little more, feel free to pm me, and I'll help all I can.


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## LibraryLady (Dec 13, 2015)

@BuckysBadger24 - I'm a quitter.  27 years.  Quit cold turkey because back then there were no "aids".  Took me 2 years. Quit, start, quit, start... By the time it was over, I realized the physiological addiction was broken the very first time I quit, I just had a hard time quitting the habits.  The hardest one was stress and the last one was drinking.  I learned I had to replace the habits with something else. That said, even after all these years, there are times when I smell my drug of choice (Marlboro Greens) and well... I just have to remember I'm a quitter and proud of it.

LL


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## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 13, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I don't think you have "hijacked" the thread. In fact it would surprise me if tobacco use did not come up. When the time comes, I wish you the best of luck. If you want to chat about it a little more, feel free to pm me, and I'll help all I can.



I really appreciate that and i think I'll definitely take you up on the offer when the time comes.  I think many of the people I've seen try to quit, have had a lot of trouble because their support from family or friends isn't strong or said family can't stand the person trying to quit after a while (and working with the one co-worker, especially doing manual labor, left a lot to be desired.  I mean, this guy took Nic fits to another level, no matter how much we tried to help him).  Having a neutral support base could only help more and more the way I see it.



LibraryLady said:


> @BuckysBadger24 - I'm a quitter.  27 years.  Quit cold turkey because back then there were no "aids".  Took me 2 years. Quit, start, quit, start... By the time it was over, I realized the physiological addiction was broken the very first time I quit, I just had a hard time quitting the habits.  The hardest one was stress and the last one was drinking.  I learned I had to replace the habits with something else. That said, even after all these years, there are times when I smell my drug of choice (Marlboro Greens) and well... I just have to remember I'm a quitter and proud of it.
> 
> LL



It is amazing just how long the "want to" sticks with you.  My grandfather was a 2 pack a day man for 40 years (Marlboro Lights were his choice, those damn Marlboros seem to be a theme here ha) and he just up and quit one day.  No aids, no nothing, just threw them out and stopped.  To this day he has no thoughts of it, and smoking around him doesn't bother him.  My Uncle quit after about 15 years, (3 guesses as to what brand he smoked) using some nicotine patches, but only occasionally, and to this day if you even step on his property with a cigarette, and he catches a whiff of it, a serious reaming usually follows.  

I suppose the key is just realizing that everything affects everyone differently, and if you are quitting, getting discouraged is failure.

By the way, congrats on being free of the beast for 27 years!  That time without a relapse is always impressive.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 13, 2015)

LibraryLady said:


> @BuckysBadger24 - I'm a quitter.  27 years.  Quit cold turkey because back then there were no "aids".  Took me 2 years. Quit, start, quit, start... By the time it was over, I realized the physiological addiction was broken the very first time I quit, I just had a hard time quitting the habits.  The hardest one was stress and the last one was drinking.  I learned I had to replace the habits with something else. That said, even after all these years, there are times when I smell my drug of choice (Marlboro Greens) and well... I just have to remember I'm a quitter and proud of it.
> 
> LL


My smoking history was smoking for a few years then stop, cold turkey. After a 15 year break, I start again with pipe and cigars, then buying Marlboros within 2 weeks. Stopped using the Nicorette gum for two weeks. The last time I picked up was at a poker game with, what else, Bushmills and cigars. That lasted about three years of buying one pack at a time because I was "Quitting after this one....." I decided to try Chantix, even with all the side effects that I heard from folks who were still smoking. Like I said earlier, the Chantix made it much easier, and I had zero side effects. I do not remember the last day I smoked, but it was about 15, or so, years ago. It all boils down to wanting to stop. I find I am very sensative to cigarette smoke. Driving around town, with the a/c on and windows up, I can smell it if someone lights up in the car ahead of me. I really do not like walking through designated smoking areas when entering a building.


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