# Vetigel



## amorris127289 (Jun 22, 2015)

I know nothing on this topic other than what I read in the article (http://www.suneris.co/vetigel/ and http://www.businessinsider.com/a-17...stops-bleeding-instantly-2015-6#ixzz3dny9dvJg )
I just thought this was interesting. I am assuming there is something similar being used.
Have any of you heard about Vetigel? It claims it is to be used by vet's to stop internal and external bleeding.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 22, 2015)

rhaps.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 22, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> A little more on the product:
> 
> 
> 
> raises many questions. Does it have a future  in medicine and surgery? Perhaps.


We will see how it works with the animal world first. I was thinking along the lines of first responders and military (like the scientist mentioned at the end) if it stops bleeding in 15seconds rather than a couple of minutes, how many lives,or limbs, could be saved. Or maybe have it built into the lining of the combat uniforms so upon impact from shrapnel or a bullet, the Vetigel begins to release itself; the way an aloe plant works. 

Science is awesome.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jun 22, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> We will see how it works with the animal world first. I was thinking along the lines of first responders and military (like the scientist mentioned at the end) if it stops bleeding in 15seconds rather than a couple of minutes, how many lives,or limbs, could be saved. Or maybe have it built into the lining of the combat uniforms so upon impact from shrapnel or a bullet, the Vetigel begins to release itself; the way an aloe plant works.
> 
> Science is awesome.


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## pardus (Jun 22, 2015)

Sounds good. Too good.

Quick Clot does the same thing, except it has bad side effects, to the point it is no longer authorized in the Army. 
I can stop a Femoral bleed in less than 15 seconds, with my hands, then a TQ. Why do I need this?

Like I said, sounds good, and I seriously hope it meets it's proponents expectations. I'm just not at all excited at this point in time.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 22, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Are you involved in the R&D of this product?


Not at all. I am a college student, pursuing my bachelors and enlisting.   I enjoy learning new things and problem solving. I am sure many other of these types of products have surfaced, this was just the first one I had heard about. 

And pardus I was wondering about the side effects this could have, yes you stop bleeding with it, but can it be undone. You can take a TQ off, way out of my league, but if this Vetigel bonds to everything it comes in contact with then wouldn't that mean you would have to remove that part of the body/veins in order to recreate blood flow?


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## pardus (Jun 22, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> And pardus I was wondering about the side effects this could have, yes you stop bleeding with it, but can it be undone. You can take a TQ off, way out of my league, but if this Vetigel bonds to everything it comes in contact with then wouldn't that mean you would have to remove that part of the body/veins in order to recreate blood flow?



You're a thinker, good. 
These are questions that you and I don't know, but that I guarantee will be answered given time. Let's hope with no loss of life.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 22, 2015)

pardus said:


> You're a thinker, good.
> These are questions that you and I don't know, but that I guarantee will be answered given time. Let's hope with no loss of life.


I was reading on the quick clot you mentioned, the civilian world was saying the main problems were thermal burns from the exothermic reaction given when Quickclot is added to a wound and the fact that the powder is so fine the wind blew it around. It also said that Quickclot reacts with the water in the body so it is "easily" removed, pretty much by flushing? And Vetigel, again, claims to react with the actual body(not the water). Again, how do you remove it when you get to surgery or is it suppose to be like super magic and it recreates cells instantaneous and makes the user able to heel like the predator? Makes me more skeptical of the product. 

I am sure these answers have or will come in due time.


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## lushooter (Jun 24, 2015)

I did a little looking around. This quote doesn't specifically answer your questions, but it does address it.
" You can easily remove the gel after bleeding stops or spray it with a protective coat that acts and feels like skin, but keeping gel in place will heal the tissue faster"

There was also this. "Landolina first applied Veti-Gel on rats that had their livers and carotid arteries sliced."

I do not know what the answer to your question is, but I think it will come in time. Seems like he has tested it in various ways and has a way of removing Veti-Gel when desired. Interesting work he is doing at the very least. 

http://www.medicaldaily.com/college...aling-gel-how-does-veti-gel-work-video-244683


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## Robdust (Jun 4, 2016)

Was there any other was there any other issues with quick clot, other than the exothermic burns and blowing around in windy conditions, that I haven't heard about? 
I've been out for a while now, so I didn't know it wasn't used anymore. What is the new treatment? Or are we back to pressure and Tourniquets?


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## Muppet (Jun 4, 2016)

The quick clot mentioned was the powder form. The gauze being used is the non-exothermic form with a blue stripe embedded for rapid X-ray find. I am pretty sure the quick clot is called combat gauze....

M.


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## x SF med (Jun 5, 2016)

Robdust said:


> Or are we back to pressure and Tourniquets?



These have been the primarily preferred methods even during the quickclot craze. 

As well they should be, there are more than just the exothermic issues and powder blowing away that are bothersome about quickclot - certain food allergies and pollen allergies create anaphyalaxis during use of quickclot, and in susceptible individual forces rapid onset sensitization to those immunophage receptors, creating a greater chance of anaphalaxis at 2nd or other subsequent uses.  But then again, many aspects of medicine are Swords of Damocles.


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## DocIllinois (Jun 5, 2016)

The Marine influence is strong on this board.  :-":wall:

It would seem to me that another issue of using Combat Gauze in powder form would be the risk of sending any lasting embolus around the body if coagulation doesn't happen as a local mass, whereas Vetigel is supposedly resorbable.

But then, if one leaves the Vetigel on a wound for resorption and the area wasn't well disinfected, that's likely another potential problem brewing.  Blast injuries in particular can be filthy.  But then its still only used on animals currently, IIRC.

I tell my grunts that (initially) gauze, pressure, more gauze, more pressure then a work of art pressure bandage with "DO NOT TOUCH" written on it is the way to go if there's bleeding, no immediate medic, and only something like a CLS kit (or less) available.  Which is usually the case on a National Guard Infantry exercise in a state with a shit budget.


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## WarfighterDoc (Jun 29, 2016)

I personally like a combo of old school and new. When packing a mass hemorrhage around I would start off with the combat gauze then pack as much kerlex in on top of it. Followed by the pressure bandage. However there are also the chitosan dressing that are pretty amazing seen it close off a femoral bleed.


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