# Females complete USMC Infantry training



## Loki (Nov 19, 2013)

Here Are The First 4 Women In History To Complete Marine Infantry Training

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/four-female-marines-pass-infantry-training-2013-11#ixzz2l7zc7Ndc

http://www.businessinsider.com/four-female-marines-pass-infantry-training-2013-11

Two years max and gone. Sexual harassment, hostile work environment, injury and transfer to other MOS. How about living in the field and the barracks? Did the Marine corps embark on a special training program for them specifically? False positives are always the positive and no negatives are ever reported. Women have no business in the Infantry. If the mission is war fighting of course, not compliance with Political correctness. But hey it's a new world and some have evolved. I wouldn't be a SNCO and have these people in my platoon and try to manager this bag if problems. Nothing good will ever come from this... Just sayin, my opinion and I know many don't agree.


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## dknob (Nov 19, 2013)

4 out of 15 to pass the most basic of military training courses. 
At least this solidifies the SOF argument. "don't bother"


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## TLDR20 (Nov 19, 2013)

You did read that it is a pilot program and they will head to their original MOS's right? They met the male standard for all events.... That is impressive.


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## reed11b (Nov 19, 2013)

We have a large number of Canucks on this site, what do they say?
Reed
(What does the Canuck say? Sorry sorry so-so-so-rry sorry)


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## Loki (Nov 19, 2013)

TLDR20 said:


> You did read that it is a pilot program and they will head to their original MOS's right? They met the male standard for all events.... That is impressive.



Yea, I got that...  Yes, pilot program. However I foresee this as the first logical step toward full integration into the force and compliance with the marching orders of the Obama administration. Of which, of course Amos will bend over over backwards to comply with.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 19, 2013)

If they actually met the male standards, than I would agree 100% that 4 out of 15 is very impressive and 4 more than I would have expected.

I've said it a few times, if they meet the standards let them in. Personally I tend to agree that it will turn into a bag of shit, but its hard to say "can't sit here" when they are doing everything at the same efficiency level as you are.

My$.02


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## Marauder06 (Nov 19, 2013)

4/15, what's that about a 25% pass rate?  I wonder what the washout rate is for male Marines.


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## Loki (Nov 19, 2013)

My concerns with regard to this have nothing to do with the physical standards if they can execute. My major concerns are the management, supervision and leadership of such personnel mixed with males. Not to mention extended field operations and gender specific hygiene issues.  As a SNCO or NCO at the squad leader level I see this as all bad. I have directly supervised and led females in the past in combat environments. It was a highly unpleasant, abundant with political land mines and a highly sensitive matter. It detracts from the overall mission many times and changes the focus of energy.  Of course I chose not to slot them for certain missions if possible and restrict them to specific types of operations.  They were not Infantry so it was relatively easy to filter out specific missions. But still I was forced to explain myself and the why every-time.  Not to mention personal relationships with the females with high officers in the command element with whom they were in constant contact in the rear via computer e-mails. An all male team is much easier to lead and discipline without concerns of feelings and sensitivity. Or getting questioned for not talking to them enough or not sharing more among other issues. You talk too much the other troops think your trying to hit on them, talk too little they get jealous or sensitive. Or they can file sexual harassment if you spend time alone as a result of job position or touch in anyway on upper back or help or get personal.  I tend to ignore them, always have a witness to conversation and never talk personal.  Strictly professional and never speak to them off duty. I would rather be a women hater then a player with a career ending complaint.


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## AWP (Nov 19, 2013)

CNN is saying 3 so far. The fourth is injured and will take the CFT after recovering.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...ine-corps-infantry-training-course/?hpt=hp_t2


Regardless, congratulations to the Marines involved. I question the return on the investment, but you have to start somewhere. I just think this will end poorly.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/03/09/breaking-open-the-boys-combat-club-in-the-cf/



> Though the research is certainly out of date, in the late 1990s researchers found that the attrition rate for females in combat arms trades was five times higher than for their male counterparts.


 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...rain-women-for-rigor-of-front-lines/?page=all



> A decade later, Dr. Ian Gemmel conducted a study for the British army’s personnel center. He found that the number of women who could qualify for basic training decreased in the “gender-free” system, as more women dropped out of training because of injury, compared with the “gender fair” system of separate fitness requirements.


 


> In a second study, the British Defense Ministry conducted an extensive two-year assessment of women and their ability to perform routine ground combat tasks, such as lifting and carrying gear over certain distances.
> Its May 2002 findings, in a report titled “Women in the Armed Forces,” were not encouraging for advocates of women in combat.
> The study concluded that only 0.1 percent of female applicants and 1 percent of trained female soldiers “would reach the required standards to meet the demands of these roles.”


 
There are more numbers in the second link.

I want to believe that we'll see some equality, a single standard for all without any pressure to change, adjust, norm, or accomodate. I want to believe that touchy-feely emotional decisions won't enter into the equation and that we can see true equality within our ranks.

I also want to believe in unicorns.

I just don't have any faith in the system or the people involved and think this will end poorly. I hope I'm proven wrong.


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## Salt USMC (Nov 19, 2013)

JAB said:


> If they actually met the male standards, than I would agree 100% that 4 out of 15 is very impressive and 4 more than I would have expected.
> 
> I've said it a few times, if they meet the standards let them in. Personally I tend to agree that it will turn into a bag of shit, but its hard to say "can't sit here" when they are doing everything at the same efficiency level as you are.
> 
> My$.02


One of their ITB instructors posts on another site that I'm a member of, and he's said, candidly, that the females that made it were PT beasts and got no special favors.

Of course, it's not easy to independently verify these things, but I'll take it.


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## CDG (Nov 19, 2013)

We've discussed the need for the military to revamp their fitness testing before, and I think the success rate has more to do with the standard needing to be changed across the board.


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## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2013)

Of all the women to volunteer and attempt Marine IOC, none have made it past a month.  Articles come up in the MC Times every two months or so testifying to that.  The one female to make it a month (the only to pass the endurance course) withdrew the following month due to health complications (read: injury).


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