# SOF to Intel Agencies



## goon175 (Jan 24, 2012)

<<admin edit:  This thread is a spinoff of a discussion that originally took place in the Ranger forum. There seemed to be a lot of interest in the topic so I broke off some of the posts and moved them here to avoid a hijack in the other forum.

Please be sure to exercise good judgment when posting about this topic.>>


If a Ranger who leaves the military wants to work for the CIA or any other agency, he can apply just like everyone else and be hired or not hired based on their individual qualification and the needs of the agency he is applying for. Just because you served as a Ranger, SF, SEAL, CSO, etc. does not mean you will make a good intelligence agent.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> I'm actually curious why more of our guys don't figure out a way to get those CS jobs. The requirements weren't nearly as hard and they still went through OTC and freefall.


 
Which CS jobs?  It's not like you can just take off your crossed rifles and put on the squashed bug and *poof* you're an intel enabler.  There is normally years of training associated with becoming an enabler in an upper-level SOF outfit.  Some MOSs are extremely technical, and just because you're a good shooter doesn't necessarily mean you'd be a good enabler.  Different skillset, different mentalities.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Which CS jobs? It's not like you can just take off your crossed rifles and put on the squashed bug and *poof* you're an intel enabler. There is normally years of training associated with becoming an enabler in an upper-level SOF outfit. Some MOSs are extremely technical, and just because you're a good shooter doesn't necessarily mean you'd be a good enabler. Different skillset, different mentalities.


Well intel enabler would be a CSS job. I wasn't suggesting that. It'd be pretty easy for an 11B to hit his second enlistment, reclass, and then after another year or two pop over there.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I think we're in disagreement over what constitutes CS and CSS.  CSS is combat service support, yes?  So those would be things like finance.  CS is combat support, which is things like signal, intel, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_support

I think the path you outlined of reclass, a couple years of training, and then coming back to the unit is a viable one, I saw it several times and it sounds like you have too.  I just don't want people to think that they can fail at operator selection, and then be awarded an enabler position as a consolation prize.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

Hum, I always defined CS as guys on the field with the shooters. Direct support. Medics, commo guy, FO, TSE, etc. CSS were supply guys, cooks, intel guys, behind the scenes sort of stuff not directly on the battlefield. My definition maybe fucked up, but I do believe the unit basically defined it this way and they got different training as a result.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I've never been in a unit where intel was defined as CSS, and our intel guys frequently went out on the OBJ.

 I can see how your definition makes sense, but it's not reflected in doctrine.  Otherwise, ops guys who weren't going out on missions would be CSS too ;)


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I've never been in a unit where intel was defined as CSS, and our intel guys frequently went out on the OBJ.
> 
> I can see how your definition makes sense, but it's not reflected in doctrine. Otherwise, ops guys who weren't going out on missions would be CSS too ;)


Yeah we had HUMINT guys with us as well. And I know SF has the SOT-A guys. I would actually argue a 11b or 18-series hanging out in the S-3 is now a CSS guy, but I guess my definition is messed up anyways. Learned something new today.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

Sean Kim said:


> I want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and knowledge so guys like me can watch and learn to be aware and be successful in whatever paths we may take.
> 
> With that said... I am really curious to know if...
> 
> ...


 
It's not a stupid question.

I actually had a casual conversation with an agency recruiter who came to my college. She was shit-hot on her knowledge of the community (she was actually a case officer). I was more inquiring out of curiosity about 75th into anything in the agency. She said word-for-word: "Since 9/11, there have been too many Delta and DEV shooters leaving the military. And the CIA probably picks up 5-8 paramilitary officers per year, with more on a contractual basis. All of which are prior SMU."

With a background in the 75th, you may get a shot at Protective Agent (a bodyguard for CIA personnel in hostile areas of sorts). From there you may move up to other positions, but you better have your degree and at least a foreign language.

So to answer your question. Without a degree, and some kind of foreign language under you. A guy from the 75th might not find much luck getting an offer letter from the Agency.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I think we're in disagreement over what constitutes CS and CSS. CSS is combat service support, yes? So those would be things like finance. CS is combat support, which is things like signal, intel, etc.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_support
> 
> I think the path you outlined of reclass, a couple years of training, and then coming back to the unit is a viable one, I saw it several times and it sounds like you have too. I just don't want people to think that they can fail at operator selection, and then be awarded an enabler position as a consolation prize.


 
I always considered Combat Support to be the Medics(68w), RTOs(25C/U), and Fire support (13F).
Those, including the 11Bs, seem to be the only operational members of the Ranger Regiment. At least when I was in.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Y... I guess my definition is messed up anyways. Learned something new today.


It's all good, you should see the conversations we have here on things like "who counts as SOF." ;)

I just noticed that this thread is in the Ranger forum and I'm potentially hijacking it, so this will be my last post in this thread.


----------



## alibi (Jan 24, 2012)

dknob said:


> It's not a stupid question.
> 
> I actually had a casual conversation with an agency recruiter who came to my college. She was shit-hot on her knowledge of the community (she was actually a case officer). I was more inquiring out of curiosity about 75th into anything in the agency. She said word-for-word: "Since 9/11, there have been too many Delta and DEV shooters leaving the military. And the CIA probably picks up 5-8 paramilitary officers per year, with more on a contractual basis. All of which are prior SMU."
> 
> ...


Just as a clarification: you're only talking about the PMO guys, and not the rest of the NCS, right?


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

alibi said:


> Just as a clarification: you're only talking about the PMO guys, and not the rest of the NCS, right?


 
Yes what I wrote applies for the PMO position.

As for Case Officer/Clandestine Officer.. I highly doubt military experience matters at all as so many of those guys and gals have 0 military experience, much less SOF experience. Becoming a case officer.. you have to be well educated (obviously a degree along with good grades), a certain personality, and absolutely speak a foreign language (some language proficiencies such as Spanish won't help you as the agency has plenty).


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

To put it simply if you want to be a case officer you should be focusing more-so on your academia and language skills then your your hooah military aspirations. Paramilitary - unless your at the highest echelons of SOF, then forget about it.

If there was a middle world between the Case Officer side and the Paramilitary side, then there could be a spot for Rangers, SF, SEALs, etc. But there isn't.

Military intelligence officers (J2/S2 types) could have PLENTY of opportunities in the agency. Don't know how much of it would be operational. The field intel guys; HUMINT or CI/MI guys who run around the streets of Iraq and Afghanistan most likely have no aspirations to leave their awesome jobs and go be some operations officer working out of an embassy somewhere. Prior enlisted Intelligence professionals in the military might find it hard to compete against the officer candidates.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

Mara, if I'm off base make sure to correct me. Your experience has more weight then whatever knowledge I have on that world.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I think everything you've said so far is right on, and actually I'm learning from you right now.

I do think I'll pull some of these posts and put them up in another thread, this is an excellent discussion.


----------



## alibi (Jan 24, 2012)

That's some good info dknob, thanks!

Does what you said about case officers apply to the DIA people as well?  That is, as long as I'm not brushing up against something sensitive.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm not arguing a lot of the guys that are PMOs are from SMUs now. I have no idea, but I did always find it interesting that the first casualty in Afghanistan was an artillery officer from the Marines. I have read a few books about the CIA and one of them mentioned the candidates weren't from elite schools, but were mostly ex-military. Either way, the CIA requires a college degree in those fields except for contractors. If you're plotting that sort of path, I'd think time in SF is way more useful than even the SMUs except maybe those guys up in VA. Jawbreaker mentions a paramilitary reserve as well. Or maybe it was First In. One of those guys wasn't actually a PMO and was in some reserve because of his skydiving background.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> I'm not arguing a lot of the guys that are PMOs are from SMUs now. I have no idea, but I did always find it interesting that the first casualty in Afghanistan was an artillery officer from the Marines. I have read a few books about the CIA and one of them mentioned the candidates weren't from elite schools, but were mostly ex-military. Either way, the CIA requires a college degree in those fields except for contractors. If you're plotting that sort of path, I'd think time in SF is way more useful than even the SMUs except maybe those guys up in VA. Jawbreaker mentions a paramilitary reserve as well. Or maybe it was First In. One of those guys wasn't actually a PMO and was in some reserve because of his skydiving background.


Like I said, based on the conversation I had with the recruiter. The post 9/11 has changed the ranks of the CIA dramatically. Ive read jawbreaker and First In, and yes almost all those paramilitary people don't have SMU experience. But obviously those personnel are remnants of the 90s. All I'm saying is that you won't see SF or SEALs being recruited as PMOs. Maybe pre 9/11, but not now.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

alibi said:


> That's some good info dknob, thanks!
> 
> Does what you said about case officers apply to the DIA people as well? That is, as long as I'm not brushing up against something sensitive.


 
I have never spoken to a DIA representative. But from my understanding... the DIA does not have an "action arm" (operations component) that I know of. The mandate of the DIA also from what I understand is to support the Armed Forces in intelligence capabilities wherever they may be deployed. The CIA operates on a global mandate (not just warzones or other military operations). To be honest I think the DIA is all intel analysts, translators, imagery, etc.


----------



## tigerstr (Jan 24, 2012)

dknob said:


> To put it simply if you want to be a case officer you should be focusing more-so on your academia and language skills then your your hooah military aspirations. *Paramilitary - unless your at the highest echelons of SOF, then forget about it..*




As you may know CIA has job/ qualification descriptions on its site. And according to these descriptions you have to have a degree in order to be properly employed. Otherwise ( Ι read in other places) its a contract job

From CIA site:


*Paramilitary Operations Officer/Specialized Skills Officer*

Work Schedule: Full Time
Salary: $58,511 – $81,204
Location: Washington, DC metropolitan area

The Clandestine Service is looking for U.S. citizen candidates to fill Paramilitary Operations Officer and Specialized Skills Officer positions. Paramilitary Operations Officers and Specialized Skills Officers serve both at our Headquarters in Washington DC and overseas. Qualified candidates can expect to focus on intelligence operations and activities for U.S. policymakers in hazardous and austere overseas environments. Paramilitary Operations Officer candidates are normally trained in the Clandestine Service Trainee (CST) Program. Specialized Skills Officers conduct and/or directly support CIA operations leveraging their media, technical and/or military experience including aviation, maritime or psychological warfare skills.
*Minimum requirements* for Paramilitary Operations Officers include a *bachelor's degree*, military special operations or combat arms experience (ground, air or maritime), as well as combat leadership experience. Previous foreign travel and foreign language proficiency is highly valued. For Specialized Skills Officers, minimum requirements also include a *bachelor's degree*.

A background in aviation, maritime, military psychological warfare and/or information operations, as well as communications, business and counterintelligence are preferred. The 35-year maximum age requirement can be waived on a case-by-case basis.
All applicants must successfully complete a thorough medical and psychological exam, a polygraph interview and an extensive background investigation. US citizenship is required.
To be considered suitable for Agency employment, applicants must generally not have used illegal drugs within the last twelve months. The issue of illegal drug use prior to twelve months ago is carefully evaluated during the medical and security processing


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

Interesting. I guess the war has created a lot of retention issues in their ranks as well.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

dknob said:


> I have never spoken to a DIA representative. But from my understanding... the DIA does not have an "action arm" (operations component) that I know of. The mandate of the DIA also from what I understand is to support the Armed Forces in intelligence capabilities wherever they may be deployed. The CIA operates on a global mandate (not just warzones or other military operations). To be honest I think the DIA is all intel analysts, translators, imagery, etc.


http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12106

They've got something. I've met a DIA HUMINT collector overseas. I don't how much of his job was being out in the field vs just interrogating jailbirds.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I think of DIA as the Title X equivalent of the CIA.  Slightly different missions, arguably less capable, but fairly comparable.


----------



## alibi (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> I think of DIA as the Title X equivalent of the CIA. Slightly different missions, arguably less capable, but fairly comparable.


Do they have the same type of hiring plan as the CIA does (College grads, foreign language skills) or do they focus more on people who already have some of the skills necessary for the job?


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

dknob said:


> ...All I'm saying is that you won't see SF or SEALs being recruited as PMOs. Maybe pre 9/11, but not now.


 
Not really the case at all.  There several former SF TL's who are now PMOs   (were hired in the last couple years).  While not as common as their hiring of SMU guys they do still hire a few.  There are some former SF guys who are case officers too...

Crip


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

alibi said:


> Do they have the same type of hiring plan as the CIA does (College grads, foreign language skills) or do they focus more on people who already have some of the skills necessary for the job?


 
Depends on if they are being hired as a green-suiter or GS level employee and also what the position/job it is that they are hiring for.


----------



## alibi (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Depends on if they are being hired as a green-suiter or GS level employee and also what the position/job it is that they are hiring for.


I'm mainly thinking about their HUMINT employees, and more along the lines of their GS employees.  I'm assuming that contractors generally have to have a good amount of experience because of their higher salaries.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Not really the case at all. There several former SF TL's who are now PMOs (were hired in the last couple years). While not as common as their hiring of SMU guys they do still hire a few. There are some former SF guys who are case officers too...
> 
> Crip


You think they were highered because they were TLs or those just happen to be guys with degrees that applied?


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 24, 2012)

Sometimes having a military sense of dress, speaking and staring down people like you're about to plunge a bayonet into their heart when they're only asking how you have your coffee isn't advantageous.


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

There is a lot of info on here and honestly Dknob and Crip are the most accurate.  Times are tougher now than after the hiring surge for all Federal agencies (there is talk of thinning the ranks just like all other USG agencies).  However for jobs within the NCS, the key items NOW appear to be advanced degrees, foreign travel, and most importantly ability to get a clearance.  I know SF and RR guys who became both COs and protective officers and but have met many, many, many more who do not have any mil experience at all.  Contracting is another way to go too. Many blue badgers started out as green but there are more and more chasing the greenbacks by trading their blue to green.

If you want to be a CO within NCS, you had better be learning a language alright: English. 

My advice: if you want to go from SOF to an IC job; do your SOF job very well, get as much training as possible, go to school and then get a Masters all the while living a boring ass life to keep your nose clean.  The Boren Scholarship program is very highly regarded by everyone in the biz as are the degree programs at NIU.

Of course there are those out there who got hired without a degree and then went SOF.  Those are few and far between and most certainly have mental problems to begin with.


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> You think they were highered because they were TLs or those just happen to be guys with degrees that applied?


 
It was because of certain experience(s) the guys had previously on the UW side of things...  

Crip


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

alibi said:


> I'm mainly thinking about their *HUMINT* employees, and more along the lines of their GS employees.


 
Yet again it depends on if the guys are green-suiters or not.  They hire GS, green-suiters, and contractors to fill some of the same positions, HUMINT, CI, SSE, etc...


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

lindy said:


> ...all the while living a boring ass life to keep your nose clean...


 
This is VERY important and I cannot stress it enough.  It is much easier for an 18 y/o straight out of high-school to get a TS(+) than a guy in his mid-thirties simply due to having survived (or not) many life experiences (speeding tickets, debt, nasty divorces, etc.)


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> This is VERY important and I cannot stress it enough. It is much easier for an 18 y/o straight out of high-school to get a TS(+) than a guy in his mid-thirties simply due to having survived (or not) many life experiences (speeding tickets, debt, nasty divorces, etc.)


 
Videos and drunk FB photos are the silent killers.


----------



## dknob (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Not really the case at all.  There several former SF TL's who are now PMOs   (were hired in the last couple years).  While not as common as their hiring of SMU guys they do still hire a few.  There are some former SF guys who are case officers too...
> 
> Crip



Glad to hear it! And thanks for the correction. Like I mentioned earlier; I'm just going off what the NCS recruiter told me.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

alibi said:


> Do they have the same type of hiring plan as the CIA does (College grads, foreign language skills) or do they focus more on people who already have some of the skills necessary for the job?


 
I'm not sure, all of my time "with" the DIA was as a student in NIU, so I'm not sure what their plan is and I'm not sure I could discuss it even if I did.  I do know that they hire a LOT of "entry-level" (i.e. straight out of college or whatever) folks and spend a good deal of time training them up.  There are also a lot of ex-.mil types in the DIA, representing a lot of different flavors of SOF, and of course a lot of uniformed folks as well.  I'm a big fan of DIA and what they're able to do.  If I had to pick an intel agency to work for, it would probably be them.


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> If I had to pick an intel agency to work for, it would probably be them.


 
Their employees also fast track up the payscale. I knew SSGs analysts who were hired as 12s and quickly progressed to 14s.

So we've talked about the good but what about the ugly?  Word on the street is that the IAs at FBI are hating life although I cannot confirm that.


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

lindy said:


> So we've talked about the good but what about the ugly? Word on the street is that the IAs at FBI are hating life although I cannot confirm that.


Most of our guys couldn't even get close to considering the FBI. You talked about keeping your nose clean, they want squeaky clean people.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

A former Soldier of mine works in the FBI.  She said she liked the job but in many cases the IAs and other support types get treated like crap because they're not field agents.  So yeah, it's a lot like being an enabler in an SF group ;)


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Most of our guys couldn't even get close to considering the FBI. You talked about keeping your nose clean, they want squeaky clean people.


 
A TS with SCI is almost universal though and I meant Intel Analysts vice Special Agents.  The folks I've worked with are really down to earth but the IAs seem very frustrated. Round peg square hole kind of thing.


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> A former Soldier of mine works in the FBI. She said she liked the job but in many cases the IAs and other support types get treated like crap because they're not field agents. So yeah, it's a lot like being an enabler in an SF group ;)


 
If you cannot be an athlete...


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

lindy said:


> A TS with SCI is almost universal...


 
Yeah but that life style poly isnt friendly at all...  I know.


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 24, 2012)

I sincerely appreciate all your valuable information. Thank you everyone for sharing. It will DEFINITELY help me a lot in achieving my life goals.

I can't wait to enlist... in 2013


----------



## CDG (Jan 24, 2012)

Sean Kim said:


> I sincerely appreciate all your valuable information. Thank you everyone for sharing. It will DEFINITELY help me a lot in achieving my life goals.
> 
> I can't wait to enlist... in 2013


 
Why are you waiting until 2013?


----------



## Brian1/75 (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Yeah but that life style poly isnt friendly at all... I know.


Indeed that was what I was getting about. Being eligible for a TS/SCI is one thing, getting pass that thing is another.


----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Yeah but that life style poly isnt friendly at all... I know.


 
Bro, the lifestyle is a joke!  I should be down in your area for the 6 Feb class so you're going to have to dish.


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Indeed that was what I was getting about. Being eligible for a TS/SCI is one thing, getting pass that thing is another.


 
I didnt need a Lifestyle poly for my TS/SCI but for a job working with some boys in Virginia...  I declined knowing what the outcome would be...lol.

Crip is no choir boy...


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 24, 2012)

lindy said:


> ...I should be down in your area for the 6 Feb class so you're going to have to dish.


 
6 Feb class for what?  

If you tell me they are starting a Spanish class after I started taking this damn Pashtu I shouldnt be held responsible for whose ass I am going to jump into tomorrow.  I had to sell back 29 days of leave (yeah, that hurt) just to start this one...

Thanks for getting my BP up.


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

The guys in my unit switch to Spanish when they don't want me to understand something. Imagine being the only non-Spanish speaker in a QB primary unit. Fun times especially when they went to Puerto Rico for 4 months. Who's laughing now you non-Central Asian speaking MFers?????? 

Oh, and to be successful in the IC you MUST have a sick sense of humor otherwise you won't be able to tolerate the real stupid shit that the "managers" think up.

"You want me to do what?"


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

> Why are you waiting until 2013?


 
Well... Long story short(very), I'm getting married next month and my fiance asked me if we could stay here for a year before enlisting. 

She told me she needs some time to prepare her heart. I fully respect her and so I said okay.

I know God has a plan for me.  We're both praying about it.


----------



## Servimus (Jan 25, 2012)

Sean Kim said:


> Well... Long story short(very), I'm getting married next month and my fiance asked me if we could stay here for a year before enlisting.
> 
> She told me she needs some time to prepare her heart. I fully respect her and so I said okay.
> 
> I know God has a plan for me.  We're both praying about it.


That wasn't long. Good luck man.


----------



## moobob (Jan 25, 2012)

DIA likes to hire folks with hard science degrees... as well as former military intel types. Preferably with degrees, but not always, unlike NCS. SOF types aren't always the types to flock to that kind of job, but SOF experience is looked at highly.


----------



## Boon (Jan 25, 2012)

Keep in mind with the recent budget cuts, new hires everywhere in the IC are being limited and observed under a microscope.


----------



## 0699 (Jan 25, 2012)

Reading this thread, all I could think was "those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know..."


----------



## MilkTruckCoPilot (Jan 25, 2012)

lindy said:


> If you cannot be an athlete...


 
Yea, nothing athletic about carrying all that shite..


----------



## dknob (Jan 25, 2012)

I think the most important message that people should get from all this is that there is very little gunslinging done outside of the military or contracting community. If you think you're going to run around with a suppressed pistol as a case officer in exotic places around the globe. Think again.


----------



## CDG (Jan 25, 2012)

dknob said:


> I think the most important message that people should get from all this is that there is very little gunslinging done outside of the military or contracting community. If you think you're going to run around with a suppressed pistol as a case officer in exotic places around the globe. Think again.


 
Does this mean that NCIS does not run unilateral operations to eliminate terrorists in Europe and the Middle East?  Shit..... On to Plan B.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

CDG said:


> Does this mean that NCIS does not run unilateral operations to eliminate terrorists in Europe and the Middle East? Shit..... On to Plan B.


 
From the episodes I've seen, they only do that CONUS ;)  





dknob said:


> I think the most important message that people should get from all this is that there is very little gunslinging done outside of the military or contracting community. If you think you're going to run around with a suppressed pistol as a case officer in exotic places around the globe. Think again.


 
That's right.  A lot of intel work is report writing.


----------



## CDG (Jan 25, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> From the episodes I've seen, they only do that CONUS ;)


 
Need to know clearance, sir.  You keep up the good work and you'll get there one day.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

I stomach about as much of NCIS as I can of The Unit.:sick:


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

> I think the most important message that people should get from all this is that there is very little gunslinging done outside of the military or contracting community. If you think you're going to run around with a suppressed pistol as a case officer in exotic places around the globe. Think again.


 
I don't think like that... Well at least I try not to. Because I know NOTHING about this, I tend to envision where I "could" be and what I "could" be doing.

For me, I wanted to know what kind of opportunities are out there so I can match/use my desires and God-given gifts and abilities to the maximum capacity. And I believe that to be a significant asset to any team, I'll need to bring to the table tremendous amount of valuable experiences and skills which I am trying to attain day by day. 







So, How can I be like that highly trained ninja assassin from Taken?! 


Okay I'm done.


----------



## CDG (Jan 25, 2012)

SeanKM said:


> Well... Long story short(very), I'm getting married next month and my fiance asked me if we could stay here for a year before enlisting.
> 
> She told me she needs some time to prepare her heart. I fully respect her and so I said okay.
> 
> I know God has a plan for me.  We're both praying about it.


 
This may be a little off topic, but you're going to have to decide what you want.  Neither you nor your fiance have any clue about what you're getting into with this and I, as well as others here, can tell you that a marriage or relationship is rarely prepared for a high OPTEMPO.  The DoD or any three letter agency isn't really going to give a shit about your marriage and whether or  not they are keeping you too busy.  Hell, even in just the Fleet Navy I spent damn near as much time out to sea as I did at home.  And even at home you are busy with training and a million other things.  If you want to do it, then you might as well just go for it.


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

> That's right. A lot of intel work is report writing.


 
Then what do PMO's do differently compared to Case Officers?


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

> This may be a little off topic, but you're going to have to decide what you want. Neither you nor your fiance have any clue about what you're getting into with this and I, as well as others here, can tell you that a marriage or relationship is rarely prepared for a high OPTEMPO. The DoD or any three letter agency isn't really going to give a shit about your marriage and whether or not they are keeping you too busy. Hell, even in just the Fleet Navy I spent damn near as much time out to sea as I did at home. And even at home you are busy with training and a million other things. If you want to do it, then you might as well just go for it.


 
Yes. We probably don't have any idea on what's ahead of us. It's not a problem for us though. We KNOW our relationship is as strong as rock and will always support one another no matter what and more importantly, it is God-centered.



Okay this is really going off topic now! I'll stop here.


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

I do thank you for your advice... I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## alibi (Jan 25, 2012)

This is an awesome thread for people like me who have aspirations to get into Intel work.  Just want to thank everyone for putting out some info on the subject.


----------



## CDG (Jan 25, 2012)

SeanKM said:


> Yes. We probably don't have any idea on what's ahead of us. It's not a problem for us though. We KNOW our relationship is as strong as rock and will always support one another no matter what and more importantly, it is God-centered.


 
If this is the case, you have no reason to wait a year.


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 25, 2012)

That's what I said but she really wants that one year.. What can I do? :-p


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

Family has got to come first.  No matter how far you go in it and no matter how long you stay in, one day you have to leave the community.  If you do it right, your family will always be there.  Moreover, you'll be a hindrance to your team if you're distracted by domestic issues.  Get right with your wife before you sign on, or it could be a painful road.  Lots of folks work through it, but if all she's asking is a year, and then she'll fully support your decision to go SOF, it could work out.


----------



## tigerstr (Jan 25, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Family has got to come first. No matter how far you go in it and no matter how long you stay in, one day you have to leave the community. If you do it right, your family will always be there.


 
My hat is off for every one of you guys putting your life at risk and at the same time, having a family.

I became a husband and a father rather late in my life. The change was tremendous for the rather reckless “wherever I am, is my home” type of guy that I was.

I hate missing even a few days of my daughter growing up , not weeks and months or even a year, like most of you do when deployed.

And “fear of dying” acquired a meaning it did not have for me, not by a long shot, until she was born.

Respect for your guts, your sacrifice and your selfless patriotism.

End of hijack


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

dknob said:


> I think the most important message that people should get from all this is that there is very little gunslinging done outside of the military or contracting community. If you think you're going to run around with a suppressed pistol as a case officer in exotic places around the globe. Think again.


 
Dknob, I don't care what Goon says about ya, but you're ok in my book.  Note to the lurkers: this is 100% true statement right there.



Marauder06 said:


> that's right. A lot of intel work is report writing.


 
Again, spot on. 

Rest in Peace Mike.


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Family has got to come first. No matter how far you go in it and no matter how long you stay in, one day you have to leave the community. If you do it right, your family will always be there. Moreover, you'll be a hindrance to your team if you're distracted by domestic issues. Get right with your wife before you sign on, or it could be a painful road. Lots of folks work through it, but if all she's asking is a year, and then she'll fully support your decision to go SOF, it could work out.


 
You do realize that to become a 15, you must have civilian warzone time, two failed marriages to hot foreign chicks under your belt, at least one unauthorized book pubished, and a short stint in a rehab facility?


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 25, 2012)

An AKM, no shoes and grey socks is my new look.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

More like 40 pounds held in by your belt ;)

Stay active duty as long as you can...


----------



## dknob (Jan 25, 2012)

lindy said:


> Dknob, I don't care what Goon says about ya, but you're ok in my book. Note to the lurkers: this is 100% true statement right there.


 

?!?!! whats that motherfucker say about me?!!

shits about to get real up in here.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

dknob said:


> ?!?!! whats that motherfucker say about me?!!
> 
> shits about to get real up in here.


 
You should hear what he says about your mom.

Nevermind, that's cback's mom.  My bad.  Carry on.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 25, 2012)

The topic of which would require a whole new forum and dedicated researchers.


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

SeanKM said:


> Then what do PMO's do differently compared to Case Officers?


 
Just a thought but quick check of CIA.GOV may be a big help.

But in reality, PMO's usually bang the hot COs.   I've seen it the other way around too...wasn't pretty but saw it nevertheless.  Homebrew will NOT make you go blind no matter what they say on "Moonshiners". :nerd:


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 25, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> ...Nevermind, that's cback's mom. My bad. Carry on.


 
What is he saying about cback's mom that hasnt already been said?


----------



## 0699 (Jan 25, 2012)

0699 said:


> Reading this thread, all I could think was "those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know..."


 
And to go with that...

2) If you disagree with the above statement, you probably don't know what you're talking about.

3) If your knowledge consists of "word on the street", "I heard", "a quick check of...", or "a friend of mine", then it's probably wrong.

I say apply for the job and let the chips fall where they may. Quit trying to game the thing.


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

Did you get "that letter" in the mail?  Don't hate me cuz you ain't me.


----------



## 0699 (Jan 25, 2012)

lindy said:


> Did you get "that letter" in the mail? Don't hate me cuz you ain't me.


 
Me?  I'm just an old retired jarhead.  I don't know nothing.


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 25, 2012)

0699 said:


> 0699 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
There are those who have worked with, around and for "people" long enough that when we ask questions we get answers to those questions.    Your perception, while it may very well be your reality, isn't the reality in all that was discussed here.  ;)  



> ...I say apply for the job and let the chips fall where they may. Quit trying to game the thing.


 
This part I do concur with.


----------



## TH15 (Jan 25, 2012)

Okay...so hopefully this isn't _too _off topic but since we're talking about different agencies I have a question. If it's off topic let me know and I'll just start a new thread.

I just found out about and toured a college that had a program that was geared towards DoD/Intel Community work. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with intelligence collection, but it has to do with information technology/security. I talked with the Dean of this particular program and he says companies like Northrup Grumman, NCI, and DoD/IC regularly recruit graduates. There's even a post-bachelor certificate (or Masters, I can't remember) where they literally teach you how to hack into basically anything. You have to have a clearance and be employed with Uncle Sam to get into that, I believe. Anyone know anything about this career field/path? I've done a little research and it seems like there are plenty of jobs in it.


----------



## goon175 (Jan 25, 2012)

Damn, I don't log on for 6 hours (had to give my guys a pt test), come back in here and it's like I walked into a party and everyone stops and stares at me like I just fucked all their mom's!



> ?!?!! whats that motherfucker say about me?!!


 
I didn't say anything that anyone doesn't already know about those 3/75 types....

On this topic, everyone wants to believe that they will turn into jason bourne once they make it into this unit or that unit, or that if I get into this unit then it will open doors for me here and there. Then you get there and find out there is another level up from that, and on and on it goes. If you are chasing the cool guy image that you want to see yourself as, it is a never ending rat race. There is ALWAYS someone cooler than thou. Find something that you enjoy doing and be the best at it. That is when you become a real asset. Chasing after what you percieve to be the most bad ass thing out there is not worth your time, health, or energy. If what you happen to be really good at is bad ass, then good for you.

Then again, maybe I am just salty because I realized I am never going to be jason bourne haha.


----------



## 0699 (Jan 25, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> There are those who have worked with, around and for "people" long enough that *when we ask questions we get answers to those questions*. Your perception, while it may very well be your reality, isn't the reality in all that was discussed here. ;)
> 
> ...


 
_Disregard. I'll get back in my lane as I doubt I have as much info about the IC as others here._

Stay safe.


----------



## Brill (Jan 25, 2012)

0699 said:


> Me? I'm just an old retired jarhead. I don't know nothing.


 
It's clear you've been trained very well and I'm pickin' up what yer puttin' down.  “Admit nothing,  Deny everything, Make counter-accusations”. ;)


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 27, 2012)

No!!! This thread can't end yet! 

If this is off-topic, please disregard this question.

I have three tattoos. They're not big, all three can be covered with average polo shirts. Two of them are religious. None of my them are extremist, sexist, nor racist. 

I read other tattoo-related threads but I think it was only concerning military/SOF...  How are tattoos viewed in intel community? 



Thank you in advance.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2012)

There are too many variables to give a definitive answer.  Since most intel jobs involve wearing long sleeves and sitting behind a desk, the short answer is "no one gives a damn as long as you can do your job and the tats aren't distracting in some way."


----------



## Brill (Jan 27, 2012)

My coworkers LIKE my Nickleback tatoo.  I've seen many, many tramp stamps on folks.  Nobody seems to mind. 

Plus a bunch of IC types are ex-mil so tats are not uncommon but face, neck, hand ink are still highly discourage  not because of policy but because they look fooking stoopid.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 27, 2012)

Off topic for this particular thread but if I were in a hiring position for any job, I would never hire someone with a neck tat.


----------



## Brill (Jan 27, 2012)

Maybe you guys could see something here. 

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/inside-the-nsa

*NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC CHANNEL GETS UNPRECEDENTED*
*LOOK INSIDE AMERICA’S MOST SECRETIVE*
*INTELLIGENCE AGENCY IN INSIDE THE NSA*
Agency Opens Its Doors to Documentary Cameras
For the First Time Since 9/11
*Inside the NSA Premieres Monday, January 30, at 9 p.m. ET/PT on*
*National Geographic Channel*
_“We do not want to make a mistake._
_It has terrible consequences for our nation.”_
_—_General Keith B. Alexander, Director, National Security Agency


----------



## MilkTruckCoPilot (Jan 27, 2012)

You're not suppose to mention the mothership...


----------



## SeanKM (Jan 28, 2012)

Understood. :) Thank you.


----------



## Brill (Jan 29, 2012)

It's not always doing cool guy shit or hanging out at Embassy functions.  Choices have consequences.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...s/2012/01/20/gIQAyJGVYQ_story.html?tid=pm_pop


----------



## CDG (Jan 29, 2012)

lindy said:


> It's not always doing cool guy shit or hanging out at Embassy functions. Choices have consequences.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-cia-family-a-deadly-suicide-bombing-leads-to-painful-divisions/2012/01/20/gIQAyJGVYQ_story.html?tid=pm_pop[/quote]
> 
> Sad story and I feel for her kids and husband that are left behind.  I am inclined to agree with her uncle though.  That type of work should not be something you do because you want to be promoted and you have a chip on your shoulder about being a woman, which is how it read to me. I also disagree with the husband blaming everyone else.  She was the Khost base chief, responsibility, not sole but some, lies with her.  I wonder why she was given the assignment in the first place, as nothing read as though she had any real operational experience.  If that was the case, then she definitely should have either received some training, or not been given the assignment.


----------



## Brill (Jan 29, 2012)

CDG said:


> Sad story and I feel for her kids and husband that are left behind. I am inclined to agree with her uncle though. That type of work should not be something you do because you want to be promoted and you have a chip on your shoulder about being a woman, which is how it read to me. I also disagree with the husband blaming everyone else. She was the Khost base chief, responsibility, not sole but some, lies with her. I wonder why she was given the assignment in the first place, as nothing read as though she had any real operational experience. If that was the case, then she definitely should have either received some training, or not been given the assignment.


 
WTF dude?  Easy to judge while sitting in a Lazy Boy in CONUS.  The American people cannot have it both ways: either they push the limits to see what they can get away with or we cower behind the risk averse mentality of the Clinton admin.  The shit is dangerous and they all accepted the risk.  Press has indicated they though the source had good P&A and they trusted the GID bubba.  As for the assignment, how often does a unit CO go around running missions?  The lead and manage the process so their subordinates do the heavy lifting and get the credit.

This type of "damn the torpedeos, full steam ahead" is what got us to UBL...and got Federal employees killed.  It's a war and it impacts us all.  All Federal agencies have lessons learned although some mangers have forgotten them or never really understood the problems to begin with.  Give us the tools and resources to achieve the objective but don't bitch, complain, or start inqueries once we come back with blood on our hands.  Let us, military and Feds alike, do our jobs of destroying AQ.

I personally would welcome more patriots like the Khost officers who placed their personal needs and desires second to the Country's.  The USG is full of shitbags who have yet to get their boots dirty but claim to understand how things work because they've read plenty of point papers about it.  I find it cowardly.

I wonder if there is more to this story that is not in press. 

Sorry for the rant.  It wasn't directed at your personally.


----------



## CDG (Jan 29, 2012)

lindy said:


> WTF dude? Easy to judge while sitting in a Lazy Boy in CONUS.......


 
Yes, it is.  I am not trying to pass judgment, just expressing an opinion based off the information in the article. 


The article made no mention of her having experience in any situation like she was in in Khost.
 The report seemed to intimate promotion as a motivating factor in her applying for the job intially. 
The uncle says he talked to her about it and she got offended by the suggestion she couldn't do everything a man could do. 
Her husband encouraged her to take the job and is now blaming the CIA. 
The report that an independent review board released concluded that she broke protocol in the vetting process and by having so many officers present when receiving the informant. 
The article mentions that one of the other CIA officers was expressing concern about the legitimacy of the informant.  Yet nothing seems to have been done in response to his concerns.
 
These 6 main points are what I was basing my opinion on.   If I am out of line, I apologize.


----------



## Brill (Jan 29, 2012)

CDG said:


> Yes, it is. I am not trying to pass judgment, just expressing an opinion based off the information in the article.
> 
> 
> The article made no mention of her having experience in any situation like she was in in Khost.
> ...


----------



## CDG (Jan 29, 2012)

The best way to get experience is by doing. How does one get warzone experience unless they go there?

True.  I disagree that a position like Station Chief of a FOB is the place for someone with no experience though.
How is life any different? How many E-6's take on a lesser assignment because it's fun? Perhaps there are requirements in place that we don't know about? Wasn't there recently an article about a CSM who didn't have combat experience? Why would an intel agency have different requirements?

This is not a corporate job, or a school, or an instructor billet. This was a position of leadership that requires more than just the desire to check a box on your career checklist, IMO.

The family is certainly still morning over the loss. Sometimes a female can get folks to open up whereas dude on dude just isn't always the best avenue of approach.

As they should be.  Lashing out in emotion is not going to help anything though.  Sure, I think the females with CSTs have proven that.  This was hardly the same situation.  And I don't agree with the argument that an American, Christian, female will get an Arab male to open up.

The folks that follow the rule book are usually left behind. They need, want, and cultivate a culture of risk taking but sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I wonder how many operations failed before UBL was killed?
I get what you're trying to say, I think. It seems that these rules had legitimate reason to be in place in light of what happened though.  This was more than just a failed operation.

Group think is sometimes alive and well in any corporation.

Yep.  A leader has the responsibility to mitigate that and not contribute.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 29, 2012)

If anything it might result in a shakeup of how infomants/agents are evaluated. There should be lots of good lessons coming out of it, unfortunately at the expense of lives.


----------



## goon175 (Jan 29, 2012)

> And I don't agree with the argument that an American, Christian, female will get an Arab male to open up.


 
I could not disagree with this more. Females make some bad ass 'gators.


----------



## CDG (Jan 29, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I could not disagree with this more. Females make some bad ass 'gators.


 
I stand corrected then.  You would know far better than me. Anything you can expound on, or maybe PM if you don't want it in the open?


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 29, 2012)

It's not a secret that sometimes putting people off balance works wonders. We did it sometimes with searches of certain peoples who didn't like dealing with a woman or a certain race or whatever.


----------



## Brill (Jan 29, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I could not disagree with this more. Females make some bad ass 'gators.


 
Every first date or effort to "mac" is really an interrogation.  Some techniques or approaches are better than others.  Wonder why some countries use the "honey trap"?

http://www.wright.edu/rsp/Security/T3method/Elicit.htm


----------



## surgicalcric (Jan 29, 2012)

CDG said:


> ...And I don't agree with the argument that an American, Christian, female will get an Arab male to open up...


 
You would do well not to express such a strong opinion about topics which you have limited knowledge and exposure.

I have watched the lil shitheads like a canary when talked to by a female 'gator.  

Crip


----------



## CDG (Jan 29, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> You would do well not to express such a strong opinion about topics which you have limited knowledge and exposure.
> 
> I have watched the lil shitheads like a canary when talked to by a female 'gator.
> 
> Crip


 
Understood.  Thank you to you and goon175 for the education.


----------



## BravoOne (Jan 31, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Jawbreaker mentions a paramilitary reserve as well. Or maybe it was First In. One of those guys wasn't actually a PMO and was in some reserve because of his skydiving background.


 
I know what you are referring to and it isnt a paramilitary reserve unit but an INSCOM USAR unit. They get ABN, Ranger and other high speed schools.


----------



## BravoOne (Jan 31, 2012)

dknob said:


> I have never spoken to a DIA representative. But from my understanding... the DIA does not have an "action arm" (operations component) that I know of. The mandate of the DIA also from what I understand is to support the Armed Forces in intelligence capabilities wherever they may be deployed. The CIA operates on a global mandate (not just warzones or other military operations). To be honest I think the DIA is all intel analysts, translators, imagery, etc.


 Dknob. The DIA has the SSB (Strategic Support Branch) which skirts all of that by their responsibility to "prepare the battlespace" specifically for DoD personnel. There is some open source info available if you dig a bit like the 2nd and 3rd page of Google. It was created to get around dependence on the CIA for certain things. Team members backgrounds vary but pathfinder school, ASOC and that sort of thing are valued. They have normal assignments within DIA and the SSB teams are put together and sent out tailored to the requirements. As I understand it there were a lot of older vets running around but now I 'heard" its more about MI types that have Intel to SOF backgrounds (and courses)


----------



## SeanKM (Feb 5, 2012)

Again I want to sincerely thank everyone for sharing their valuable knowledge and experiences. This is what i needed.

So if I want to work in the field of intel (not CO but PMO type) later in my life, what should I do to prepare myself? I originally wanted to go 11x with Airborne opt. and eventually work my way up to Ranger Regiment. However, going NG/Reserve and going SFAS (19th Group) is another option I have in mind..

I could not care less in "whos tougher" discussions but I just wish to know which career route/paths will best support and compliment one another..

ANY advices, tips, examples, lessons will be greatly appreciated.. 

Thank you in advance for your replies.


----------



## CDG (Feb 5, 2012)

SeanKM said:


> So if I want to work in the field of intel (not CO but PMO type) later in my life, what should I do to prepare myself? I originally wanted to go 11x with Airborne opt. and eventually work my way up to Ranger Regiment. However, going NG/Reserve and going SFAS (19th Group) is another option I have in mind..


 
Have you read this thread?  If not, you may find it helpful.  If you have, you may need to read it again. 
https://shadowspear.com/vb/threads/why-does-focus-on-the-25m-target-matter.12268/


----------



## SeanKM (Feb 5, 2012)

That was helpful. Thank you for the link.


----------



## SeanKM (Feb 5, 2012)

I'll concentrate on BCT and give my all step by step in any unit I end up in. Man! I can't wait!!!!


----------



## Brill (Feb 10, 2012)

lindy said:


> Maybe you guys could see something here.
> 
> http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/inside-the-nsa
> 
> ...



Glad to see they showed the wall and SSG Chay (SOT-A) could be seen. Liked the bit about the MOC too. ;)


----------



## Joey2M (Apr 3, 2014)

I would like to first and foremost apologize for a reviving what appears to be a dead thread, however there seems to be a lot of relative information to me.

I registered for this site because of this thread.

Now with that out of the way, I know the basis of the thread was SOF transitioning over to Intel, however I'm currently in Intel considering employment in a Para-military type outfit or other operations-oriented Intelligence job.

Basically, would anyone here have any idea as to what types of work I can look at similar to CIA Protective Agent?

For a very long time I've wanted to do operations focused around HUMINT, even Counter-Intel, but I also like the idea of Protective Agent after reading the descriptions. I also have considered DoS DSS as I feel as if I would fit well into that. Only problem, I don't have a bachelors degree and NO special operations experience.


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2014)

Joey2M said:


> Basically, would anyone here have any *idea as to what types of work I can look at similar to CIA Protective* Agent?



Yep. Become a cop.
or
post an intro.
Either would be the right way to go.


----------



## AWP (Apr 3, 2014)

Joey2M said:


> I would like to first and foremost apologize for...


 
Per the Site Rules, post an Introduction before posting again.


----------



## Joey2M (Apr 3, 2014)

My apologies, I have back-tracked and posted an introduction in the appropriate forum. I have also considered becoming a cop, but I would like to stay working for the Federal Government. I have also looked at contracting positions (subscribed to Intel Connections), however a lot of those positions require previous SOF experience.


----------



## Kheenbish (Apr 4, 2014)

Joey2M said:


> I would like to first and foremost apologize for a reviving what appears to be a dead thread, however there seems to be a lot of relative information to me.
> 
> I registered for this site because of this thread.
> 
> ...


 
As you stated you are in the Air Force, why don't you try to get into OSI. They do Counter-Inter and protective jobs. I'm not too sure on their HUMINT capabilities, but it's worth looking into if this is the jobs you desire.


----------



## Joey2M (Apr 4, 2014)

I have pursued the OSI route, and it was something I was very interested in for those exact reasons, however I had spoken to a lot of agents and done research into the job and I just wasn't that impressed with the program. Also, I wanted to try my luck outside of the Air Force. Though I love the Air Force and I do believe to the Air Force has a lot of good personnel programs, I was looking more towards something a little more stable and direct. Simply put, the Air Force to me just doesn't have or do what I'm looking for (in hind-sight, I should have joined the Army for this, but I had no idea what I was looking for as a 20 year-old kid).


----------

