# Taliban turn down Political Appointments in Afghanistan



## Gunz (Jan 9, 2015)

The supreme idiocy to me is why they're being offered government positions in the first place. What kind of twisted logic is at work here? They're gunning down school-children in Pak one day and being offered governorships of Afghan provinces the next? :wall::wall:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30737664


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## Grunt (Jan 9, 2015)

It's because people want to continue to see them as a legitimate government. To them, it's easier to play "nice-nice" rather than have to deal with them.

Aggravating to me personally, but.....


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## DA SWO (Jan 9, 2015)

They will be in charge 5 years from now, so why negotiate.
This has been a cluster fuck ever since "W" changed the mission focus.  We should have un-assed the AO as soon as Bin Loser was whacked.


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## Viper1 (Jan 9, 2015)

I know it doesn't make sense but hear me out. It's a concession to co-opt the Taliban into government processes, potentially address some grievances, and have them share the burden of responsibility.  Look at the Palestinian Authority. It is a concession by Israel, yes but now Palestinians complain about their own group of folks in charge. (Hoffman 80). The Palestinian vitriol is against PLA incompetence, corruption, and ineffectiveness.  It's a forcing function. And it's a cover your rear move for the Afghan government as well. If they decide to go Sri Lankan President Mahindra style against the Taliban, they will have more domestic support and legitimacy.  They can say "look we offered them a place at the table and they refused."  The LTTE was very close to gaining an autonomous area in Sri Lanka until they broke the cease fire. At that point, Mahindra gained popular support for a counter terror campaign and annihilated the Tamil Tigers as a fighting force.

See Bruce Hoffman's book _Inside Terrorism_


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## Brill (Jan 9, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> I know it doesn't make sense...



Because the Taliban do not "govern"...they terrorize and rule by fear.


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## AWP (Jan 9, 2015)

It is a shrewd move by both sides. GIRoA can say they tried and the TB can tell the faithful they won't be part of an Infidel or whatever process. You've also had several nations arguing to include the TB in the negotiation/ governmental process and now the GIRoA can tell those countries to STFU, they tried and the TB rejected their offer.

It won't matter in the long run. Kabul and Saigon in '75 will have a lot in common before the TB, HQN, and other players party like its 1992.


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## Dame (Jan 9, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> It is a shrewd move by both sides. GIRoA can say they tried and the TB can tell the faithful they won't be part of an Infidel or whatever process. You've also had several nations arguing to include the TB in the negotiation/ governmental process and now the GIRoA can tell those countries to STFU, they tried and the TB rejected their offer.
> 
> It won't matter in the long run. Kabul and Saigon in '75 will have a lot in common before the TB, HQN, and other players party like its 1992.


Just make sure you aren't running for the last plane out of there, will ya?


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## AWP (Jan 9, 2015)

Dame said:


> Just make sure you aren't running for the last plane out of there, will ya?


 
I'm currently working an exfil plan. Not ideal, but not here. We'll see how it goes.


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## Gunz (Jan 10, 2015)

Call me pessimistic, bitter and jaded :whatever: but I don't see it ending on a high note. But I'm grateful to @Viper1 and @Freefalling for the explanations of the political moves here, especially with regard to the PLA/Sri Lanken comparisons. IIRC, one of those pushing for dialogue with the TB was our own POTUS but I'm not sure I can give him too much credit for shrewdness and cunning. He may be one of the recipients of a STFU letter from the "GIRoA."

My point of reference will always be Vietnam, which I felt was a lost cause after my first few weeks with ARVN. It's hard to describe the feeling of watching your former enemies raise their flag over the whole fuckin show. I don't want that to happen to our OIF/OEF men and women but sense it may be inevitable.


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## Viper1 (Jan 11, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> Call me pessimistic, bitter and jaded :whatever: but I don't see it ending on a high note. But I'm grateful to @Viper1 and @Freefalling for the explanations of the political moves here, especially with regard to the PLA/Sri Lanken comparisons. IIRC, one of those pushing for dialogue with the TB was our own POTUS but I'm not sure I can give him too much credit for shrewdness and cunning. He may be one of the recipients of a STFU letter from the "GIRoA."
> 
> My point of reference will always be Vietnam, which I felt was a lost cause after my first few weeks with ARVN. It's hard to describe the feeling of watching your former enemies raise their flag over the whole fuckin show. I don't want that to happen to our OIF/OEF men and women but sense it may be inevitable.



My Dad is a Vietnam Vet and I can understand your sentiments.  He told me he got drunk when Saigon fell.  If Bagdad or Kabul falls, you'll know where I'll be...


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## AWP (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't put much stock in this yet, but neither would I be surprised. I t does sound like a prelude to "Please America, keep troops here or the ISIS will do stuff."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...esence-in-volatile-southern-helmand-province/


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## Gunz (Jan 12, 2015)

_"There are reports that 19 or 20 people have been killed" in fighting between the Taliban and the IS group, he added"_

OMG, TB vrs ISIS...Godzilla meets Rodan. What are they fighting over? Poppy revenue? Women's fashions?


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## pardus (Jan 12, 2015)

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the Taliban clashed with ISIS.


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## AWP (Jan 12, 2015)

ISIS v. the TB doesn't make much sense, hence my lack of faith in the report. Assuming it is true I can't picture a large group of "export" ISIS folks, but I could picture some of them coming over and recruiting locals. There will always be someone who doesn't think some group is radical enough or whatever. Those folks who disgree with the TB would be prime targets for such recruitment and somewhat easy to ID thanks to the Internet. With little output they could build a small cell or two in Afghanistan and take it from there. I also think money is at stake because of the number of radical donors out there. The rich who don't want to die for the cause but will write a check. ISIS, the TB, AlQ, and whoever else could duke it out for the money train.

I still think the story is a thinly disguised "plea" to keep us in country. The Afghans know the day we leave their clock is ticking. I don't think they believed we'd punch out, but as we continue and they see we aren't bluffing they are scrambling to keep us and even commit more troops. Their army couldn't beat an entire stadium of soccer hooligans much less the TB.

Maybe ISIS is here, but I expect more "my friend, my friend, the ISIS is come, the ISIS is come" in 2015. Most of these folks know without us they won't make it to 2017.


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## Grunt (Jan 12, 2015)

pardus said:


> I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the Taliban clashed with ISIS.



Nor would I. Personally, I would enjoy the fact that they are eradicating each other. Hopefully, they will continue to do so.


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## pardus (Jan 12, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> *ISIS v. the TB doesn't make much sense*, hence my lack of faith in the report. Assuming it is true I can't picture a large group of "export" ISIS folks, but I could picture some of them coming over and recruiting locals. There will always be someone who doesn't think some group is radical enough or whatever. Those folks who disgree with the TB would be prime targets for such recruitment and somewhat easy to ID thanks to the Internet. With little output they could build a small cell or two in Afghanistan and take it from there. I also think money is at stake because of the number of radical donors out there. The rich who don't want to die for the cause but will write a check. ISIS, the TB, AlQ, and whoever else could duke it out for the money train.
> 
> I still think the story is a thinly disguised "plea" to keep us in country. The Afghans know the day we leave their clock is ticking. I don't think they believed we'd punch out, but as we continue and they see we aren't bluffing they are scrambling to keep us and even commit more troops. Their army couldn't beat an entire stadium of soccer hooligans much less the TB.
> 
> Maybe ISIS is here, but I expect more "my friend, my friend, the ISIS is come, the ISIS is come" in 2015. Most of these folks know without us they won't make it to 2017.



Like everything else in Afghanistan does?


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## DA SWO (Jan 12, 2015)

My concern is a spike in Green on blue attacks as the Afghans look for "street creds" to keep the TB from lopping their heads off when they realise the Bamster is serious about leaving.


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## AWP (Jan 12, 2015)

pardus said:


> Like everything else in Afghanistan does?


 
Touche'.


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## AWP (Jan 13, 2015)

Meanwhile, in Pakistan....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...north-waziristan-militants/?intcmp=latestnews



> ISLAMABAD – U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday praised the Pakistani military's operation against militants in the country's northwest, saying the results are "significant."


 
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I understand the nature of politics and all, but "significant" progress? BWAHAHAHAHA!!! What a clown and what an unfortunate choice of words.



> Kerry also announced that $250 million in previously appropriated money will be given to emergency relief efforts in the tribal areas, mainly North Waziristan. Hundreds of thousands of people fled the area due to the fighting.


 
Goddamnitsomuch. Another 1/4 billion? We're up to 19.25 billion (maybe more) since 2001? And these fucks are complicit in the deaths of nearly every individual in Afghanistan? First Bush, now Obama, I can't wait for 2017...


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Jan 13, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I understand the nature of politics and all, but "significant" progress? BWAHAHAHAHA!!! What a clown and what an unfortunate choice of words.



"Significant progress" meaning not all of the Pakis got slaughtered and beheaded.


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## Gunz (Jan 13, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> ...they are scrambling to keep us and even commit more troops. Their army couldn't beat an entire stadium of soccer hooligans much less the TB.


 
I knew it was bad. I didn't know it was _that _bad.



DA SWO said:


> My concern is a spike in Green on blue attacks as the Afghans look for "street creds" to keep the TB from lopping their heads off when they realise the Bamster is serious about leaving.


 
It will happen. They'll be bitter that you're bugging out _and _trying to build street cred with the enemy. I've seen it happen in a very personal way. About three months prior to my Group standing down, and even before we ourselves got the official word, our counterparts were aware of our plan to unass the AO and relations with them began to turn sour. They became sullen, uncooperative and undependable. At the same time, the enemy began stepping up attacks, because they too got the word and wanted to give us a parting kick out the door. So life became difficult. We were operating at high stress levels constantly, looking over our shoulders at our "allies" while trying to conduct combat operations against a motivationally rejuvenated enemy. It eventually led to a Green on Blue murder and a very hairy Mexican standoff that I will continue to have nightmares about for the rest of my life...but it will happen.


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## pardus (Jan 13, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> I knew it was bad. I didn't know it was _that _bad.
> 
> 
> 
> It will happen. They'll be bitter that you're bugging out _and _trying to build street cred with the enemy. I've seen it happen in a very personal way. About three months prior to my Group standing down, and even before we ourselves got the official word, our counterparts were aware of our plan to unass the AO and relations with them began to turn sour. They became sullen, uncooperative and undependable. At the same time, the enemy began stepping up attacks, because they too got the word and wanted to give us a parting kick out the door. So life became difficult. We were operating at high stress levels constantly, looking over our shoulders at our "allies" while trying to conduct combat operations against a motivationally rejuvenated enemy. It eventually led to a Green on Blue murder and a very hairy Mexican standoff that I will continue to have nightmares about for the rest of my life...but it will happen.



I'm not sure if was in the book Chickenhawk or another, but I recall reading that when American Hueys dropped off ARVN troops, the door gunners would train their guns on the ARVN Soldiers until it was all clear.


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## DA SWO (Jan 13, 2015)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure if was in the book Chickenhawk or another, but I recall reading that when American Hueys dropped off ARVN troops, the door gunners would train their guns on the ARVN Soldiers until it was all clear.


Right book, they would then check the cabin for grenades with pulled pins wedged under seats etc.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 13, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Meanwhile, in Pakistan....
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...north-waziristan-militants/?intcmp=latestnews
> 
> ...



...and he wants Pakistan to get after the Haqqani Network now too.  "We'll get right on that, Johnny!"  
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/13/world/asia/john-kerry-pakistan-talks.html?_r=0


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## AWP (Jan 13, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> ...and he wants Pakistan to get after the Haqqani Network now too.  "We'll get right on that, Johnny!"
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/13/world/asia/john-kerry-pakistan-talks.html?_r=0


 
PK cracking down on the HQN would be like the mob targeting Teamsters or Starbucks banning white women between 30 and 40 years of age...


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## Gunz (Jan 14, 2015)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure if was in the book Chickenhawk or another, but I recall reading that when American Hueys dropped off ARVN troops, the door gunners would train their guns on the ARVN Soldiers until it was all clear.


 
There were good ARVN units and bad. I worked with both. As you might expect it usually depended on the quality of their NCOs and junior officers. I suspect that's also true of Iraqi and Afghan units.


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## Etype (Jan 22, 2015)

Ocoka One said:


> The supreme idiocy to me is why they're being offered government positions in the first place. What kind of twisted logic is at work here? They're gunning down school-children in Pak one day and being offered governorships of Afghan provinces the next? :wall::wall:
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30737664


I'll tell you exactly why- it's because there are still a large portion of Afghans who support (passively or otherwise) the Taliban.  Don't believe the lie that the overwhelming majority of Afghans didn't/don't want the Taliban.  If that was the case, they wouldn't have endured 14 years of relentless pursuit.  It's a twisted region.


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## Rapid (Jan 31, 2015)

Turn down for what?


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## BloodStripe (Feb 5, 2015)




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