# Terror on American Soil? (case scenario #11)



## arizonaguide (Jul 8, 2009)

Scenario: (and you thought you escaped this one so easily!)

You are home (New York City) after a deployment.
You are out (civi clothes) drinking with some friends (all military from your unit), and you notice a confirmed Middle Eastern terrorist from the terror watchlist leaving the bar that you are in. You ALL recognize him.
You have had a few drinks, and yet you recognize him very clearly from the time that you were face-to-face in Afghanistan. (where it was confirmed that he set off an IED, and you ALMOST had him before he escaped into the paniced crowd).

Your first thought is that it couldn't be just coincidence, and he may be there for YOU. You tell your friends to check out the table where he was sitting, as you go out the door to "follow". Your friend yells to you (as you go out the door) that there is a "package" under the table where he was sitting.

The dirtbag is now standing on the curb waiting to catch a cab. He is pulling his cell phone from his pocket. You have made up your mind that you have to do something! It may violate his "civil rights" but, in good conscience you HAVE to do something... before he disappears into the New York traffic, or dials that cell phone.

1.) WHAT do you do, and HOW do you do it?
2.) ARE you within your rights to detain him?
3.) Do your friends EVAC the bar?
4.) Do you think this scenario could really happen in the Good old USA?
5.) Do you think it's just a matter of time before it DOES happen?

:cool:


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## arizonaguide (Jul 8, 2009)

6.) WHAT are you doing to prepare yourself and your family FOR the "next one"? (rhetorical question).


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## Hush (Jul 8, 2009)

Slam him in the grape with the heaviest object at your disposal.  Remove cell phone from hand.  Get package the hell out of the bar.  All I know about EOD I learned from watching Lethal Weapon movies, but I believe you should cut the red wire.  
As opposed to the last scenario, this is PID of a terror suspect.  Put him down hard, evac the bar if necessary and call it in.


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 8, 2009)

This type of scenario could absolutely happen in the United States. However we have a bunch of dumb asses running around who forgot about 9/11. No one ever thought people would highjack planes with box cutters and use them as WMDs, not even the genius fucks at the CIA. I would detain the man, take his phone, remove everyone from the bar or restaurant and call 911, and let the real bomb squad deal with it. (If the guy was innocent then I will have to deal with the consequences; I believe in racial profiling), and yes it is just a matter of time before something happens again, maybe worse than 9/11. We need to wake up, be vigilant, proactive and security conscience. We have a bunch of JACKASSES running the Department of Homeland Security who think the next terrorist attack will be from a right wing conservative who may be a VET. Something will happen again and when it does, will you be prepared?


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## tip001 (Jul 8, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> 6.) WHAT are you doing to prepare yourself and your family FOR the "next one"? (rhetorical question).



Good post AG.  And what most already stated---> Call 911, kept him detained till the right people arrived evac the building.  And probably bitch slap the son of a bitch just because it is well deserved. 

Anything is a possibility.  People should know who is on the terrorist watch list so we can stay alert.


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## 08steeda (Jul 8, 2009)

If your sure it is him and he is on on the watch list and you have personal knowledge about him! I say drop him where he stands, clear the area and wait for the EOD/Bomb Disposal Cavalry to come dispose of the package!!!

But then even if you are right, you will probably get locked up and the key thrown away for violating his civil liberties and denying him a fair trial!!! PFFFTT!!!


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## arizonaguide (Jul 8, 2009)

Exactly! My sentiments exactly.
But what about question number "2"?  
Any "experts" that can answer that question? :cool:


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 8, 2009)

# 2. I think it depends on the state. NYC, I highly doubt it. Liberal is all I can say, they let terrorists, rapists and muderers have more rights than the average citizen. Our court system is fucked up and the good guys never win, at least very few times. Then you have the shit bag ACLU, who I call the Stealth Jihadists, that will come to the defense of the COCK BAG who commited the crime, just like they have time and time again.


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## tip001 (Jul 8, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Exactly! My sentiments exactly.
> But what about question number "2"?
> Any "experts" that can answer that question? :cool:



Does it fucking matter? I believe I heard Luttrell say "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6"... Knock the shithead to the ground IMHO ;)


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## arizonaguide (Jul 8, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> # 2. I think it depends on the state. NYC, I highly doubt it. Liberal is all I can say, they let terrorists, rapists and muderers have more rights than the average citizen.


Arizona is supposed to be a "conservative" state, but we have the same problem. I think it's a symptom of a bigger problem.

I DO wonder exactly WHAT the legalities of the situation would be, and I think I would sure want to know especially if I was currently "active duty".
Or even a LEO, or for that matter just the concerned citizen (sheepdog) that I am. :cool:

Can I drop him where he stands with my CCW (confirmed watchlist)?
Where is the current terrorist "watch list" for me to review? Is there one?
Do we really think this will not happen again, with many confirmed cases getting across the Mexican border on a regular basis?
What about that dangerous Canadian Border!?
:2c:


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## SAWMAN (Jul 9, 2009)

The real solution to a problem like that can't be talked about.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 9, 2009)

SAWMAN said:


> The real solution to a problem like that can't be talked about.


Agree about what "should" be the solution. I'm more interested in the "actual" legalities, mental preparation, and having a "game plan" in a similar type scenario. 

Also, the thought occurs that it is possible that as a military member, you could run across a previous enemy here in the USA (with our currently somewhat pathetic border security), and it would be a good idea to have already thought out "what would I do" in that event. 

I'm thinking of it as "mental training" similar to having a plan (already considered) before assuming the responsibility that comes along with a CCW permit. Similar thinking.

What would I do, and what are the legalities that go along with it?
Are there different laws regarding terrorists on US soil? "Enemy Combatants" in the Global War on Terror? Etc, and what are my legal options/responsibilities? How can I be prepared for those possibilities?
(not just tactically, but in all senses, including legally).

It's a sad state of affairs to be paralized by the ACLU into putting that ahead of stopping terror.  It is a fine line politically though, I guess.
Lord knows I am a believer in Constitutional rights, and all.
:2c:


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 9, 2009)

arizonaguide said:


> Arizona is supposed to be a "conservative" state, but we have the same problem. I think it's a symptom of a bigger problem.
> 
> I DO wonder exactly WHAT the legalities of the situation would be, and I think I would sure want to know especially if I was currently "active duty".
> Or even a LEO, or for that matter just the concerned citizen (sheepdog) that I am. :cool:
> ...



In my Opinion I don't give a flying fuck about the legalities as long as real American lives were saved. Something Washington doesn't really care about. They only care about their political careers and their next move up. As for what Lutrell said and has been said long before Lutrell was even born, I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. As long as we do the right thing as Americans.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 9, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> In my Opinion I don't give a flying fuck about the legalities as long as real American lives were saved. *Something Washington doesn't really care about*.(as they throw you under the bus) They only care about their political careers and their next move up. As for what Lutrell said and has been said long before Lutrell was even born, I would rather be *judged by 12* than carried by 6. As long as we do the right thing as Americans.


Amen. So what are YOU doing to prepare yourself and your families for this type of scenario? Have you thought out the action plan, and the followup statements to the authorities in such an event? The same way that we DO for our CCW (against criminals) actions? NOBODY here DOES know the actual lagalities on this subject, DO WE? It could make all the difference in OUR families survival AFTER such a scenario. It's NOT "far fetched", to have an "After Action Plan" as well as an "action plan".

Another example; Does everyone have a "meeting place" prearranged in case families get sepparated in the "next one"? Backup plans to include the entire families actions in those events? Communication lines (cell phones) may be either DOWN or OVERLOADED in those type of events, etc.

Just saying. :2c: Part of my recent CCW and Defensive Pistol training included interacting with the authorities and understanding the legalities of our actions. I think (especially as military or LEO members) it's important to understand the same things about such an event as listed above. But also as civilians and family members.
Many people lately have been charged with criminal crimes in just doing their jobs in a time of war. 
I believe it may make a lot of sense to have an "After Action Plan" as well as an "action plan".
I have less and less faith in those 12 jurers (and ACLU members) doing "what is right" in today's America.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 9, 2009)

Remember: In today's America, you may be judged by *12 Morons* instead of carried by 6!


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## tip001 (Jul 9, 2009)

AG- I think being aware of ones surroundings is important.  If its a terrorist who is on the watch list and he thinks you may know something, my guess is homeslice is gonna take off. Especially if you've seen him on the battle field.  That's when a citizen's arrest comes in handy and you detain him till authorities come around.  Unless you're planning on killing the terrorist your not going to face a jury.


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## Ajax (Jul 9, 2009)

I guarantee you that unless it's UBL, Mullah Omar, or this one other guy that I'm not sure is OSINT, after a few beers I'm not going to recognize him.  But lets say it is UBL.  I think I'm going to detain and possibly behead him, collect the reward money, and continue with the beer mission.  Why?  Because I'm mission focused that's why.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 9, 2009)

Ajax said:


> I think I'm going to detain and possibly behead him, collect the reward money, and continue with the beer mission.


I hear you, and agree with that's how it SHOULD BE! That's a common sentiment. Not sure it works out that way with today's Politically Correct/ACLU mentality.

Seems important these days to include interacting with the authorities and understanding the legalities of our actions. I think (especially as military or LEO members) it's important. 
But also as civilians and family members. Many people (lately) have been charged with criminal crimes in just doing their jobs in a time of war, (or protecting their families in their OWN HOMES!). To then be tried in a "Kangaroo court" more interested in "Political Correctness of the day", than standing up for a brother trying to do his job ("the right thing") or protect their families...

Including/preparing for that in the "game plan" seems more important than ever. Educating ourselves as to the realities/legalities of the "playing field" seems important. You can "do the right thing" and still be Destroyed (including your family) by the "political" legal system...as often happens in similar criminal "self defense" scenarios.


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 9, 2009)

Ajax said:


> I guarantee you that unless it's UBL, Mullah Omar, or this one other guy that I'm not sure is OSINT, after a few beers I'm not going to recognize him.  But lets say it is UBL.  I think I'm going to detain and possibly behead him, collect the reward money, and continue with the beer mission.  Why?  Because I'm mission focused that's why.



I like where your heads at. I will help you out.


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## arizonaguide (Jul 9, 2009)

Yup! in a perfect world...:cool:


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## jtprgr375 (Jul 12, 2009)

jump on the ied


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## jtprgr375 (Jul 12, 2009)

1. Tell my ranger buddy to shoot him in the head. Head shot head shots head shots.
2. Fuck detaining him, he's dead. 
3. Other buddies evac the bar
4. Grab the package and head for the rear door that we already scoped out bwhen we walked in that place. Throw it in a trash can and wait for bomb Disposal
4.5 As we wait for police, get our stories straight and we can account for our actions.
5. yes I do think it can happen.
6. With Iraq being more soveriegn, I give it 5 years


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## arizonaguide (Jul 15, 2009)

Yup. Thanks JT! :cool:


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## JAFO (Nov 25, 2009)

#2
Yes.
"An arrest made by a citizen, for whom legal authority arises from the fact of citizenship, rather than by an officer of the law."
http://www.answers.com/topic/citizen-s-arrest

Below are supporting references;

CITIZEN'S ARREST - THE LAW OF ARREST, SEARCH, AND SEIZURE FOR PRIVATE CITIZENS AND PRIVATE POLICE 
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=44479

How ever, it does look like it varies from state to state, over all it is simular. 
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/citizenarrest1.pdf

Perfect example:
"The standard applied to an extra-jurisdictional police arrest is the same as that applied to a citizen's arrest. See State v. Sobrino, 587 So. 2d 1347 (Fla. 3d DCA 1991)."
http://www.flhsmv.gov/CASES/Furr.html

Citizens' Arrest
http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm
[edit to add below "clause", because I like the usage of the words he he he]
"(c) Any person making an arrest pursuant to this section shall deliver the person arrested to a law enforcement officer without unreasonable delay."

Yes, hmm define unreasonable, because my unreasonable may, be different than yours, your honor...

hehehe

...yes I am another scout on the information highway....


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## 0699 (Nov 25, 2009)

Four months and it still lives...


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