# Another Tormented Drone Operator



## AWP (Oct 23, 2013)

Sigh...Cry me a river.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201311/drone-uav-pilot-assassination



> He was an experiment, really. One of the first recruits for a new kind of warfare in which men and machines merge. He flew multiple missions, but he never left his computer. He hunted top terrorists, saved lives, but always from afar. He stalked and killed countless people, but could not always tell you precisely what he was hitting. Meet the *21st-century American killing machine.* who's still utterly, terrifyingly human


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## Kraut783 (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, getting tired of these guys.....


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 24, 2013)

And this is why drone operation should be required to be prior service.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 24, 2013)

> ...who's still utterly, a fucking pussy who should be back home playing CoD where his mommy makes ramen noodles for lunch and tells him what a superstar he is to her



Fixed that quote for ya FF


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## CDG (Oct 24, 2013)

Jesus Christ.  :wall:


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 24, 2013)

I mean, seriously. This is by FAR the best job I can THINK of, for dudes who would otherwise be medically retired. I know I would have no quams with doing it. There's about zero risk involved unless you spill your coffee in the control hooch and fry electronics due to it. You don't need to be in shape anymore. You don't need to do ANYTHING other than show up on time and be technically proficient, tactically being a bonus because then it'd be a severe combat multiplier knowing just by looking down from above where their eyes are, and where they might not be able to see with what they're rocking.

It's about the only thing I'd remotely consider moving to Vegas for, given the option. You could even freeze my pay as a lowly E-5 forever and I'd give no shits. Plus I wouldn't want any damn medals for it, I'd be fucking stoked just from "thanks for the heads up" from the guys actually working. That and giblets from shitbags deserving missile loving.


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## RackMaster (Oct 24, 2013)

Just give him a Purple Heart or something.  :-"


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## LOOON (Oct 24, 2013)

I have PTSD from playing call of duty.


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## DA SWO (Oct 24, 2013)

Ranger Psych said:


> And this is why drone operation should be required to be prior service.


or 2nd enlistment.

This would be a good job for someone who was broke physically, and couldn't deploy.


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## x SF med (Oct 24, 2013)

the fact he 'admires' shitbags like Manning and that other fuckstain is telling about his character...  douchebag.


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## Chopstick (Oct 24, 2013)

<raises hand>
I have a question.  If the dark box was "cold", precisely 68 degress, why are they sweating?   
Oh, the humanity.


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## racing_kitty (Oct 24, 2013)

Chopstick said:


> <raises hand>
> I have a question.  If the dark box was "cold", precisely 68 degress, why are they sweating?
> Oh, the humanity.



His antiperspirant failed? Or perhaps he got a little pick me up from his girlfriend Molly. I've seen ravers sweat in 40'F weather.


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## amlove21 (Oct 24, 2013)

I have had it with this nonsense. Absolutely had it.


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## reed11b (Oct 24, 2013)

Damn it, I clearly picked the wrong job to be a hardcore killer badass. Should have been a Drone "Operator". Wonder if it is too late to reclass?
Reed


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## amlove21 (Oct 24, 2013)

reed11b said:


> Damn it, I clearly picked the wrong job to be a hardcore killer badass. Should have been a Drone "Operator". Wonder if it is too late to reclass?
> Reed


LOL. Bro, if you did, I would personally drive to wherever you live, knock on your door, and when you opened it I would say- "I am from the internet." And then I would look _so _disapprovingly at you and shake my head. You would feel terrible.


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## AWP (Oct 24, 2013)

I was in an Ops briefing one day, years and years ago, and some Pred footage was shown. Typical Afghan compound, ordnance drops in, after a pause a bunch of squirters run out of the back of the compound and form up into a 360 perimeter with most facing out. Huh...that doesn't look military at all....

So, the circle took a -114 with the desired effect. Everyone cheered.

The very next night the footage was re-shown. Again, the circle, the boom, the cheers. That's when we were told the circle contained women and children.

PEOPLE (military) STARTED CRYING and not one leadership position said anything. Not one.

The beauty of being a contractor: Hey! Why are you crying? Why are you sad? Were the Towers given the chance to evacuate? You think we didn't have eyes on the target and that's why no one believed women and children to be present? That circle? Yeah, that's something soldiers are taught. By the way, how many of you could look at the video and see a child? (crickets) So you have no evidence of non-combatants in a compound KNOWN to hold a Taliban commander when a group escapes out of the back door and groups in a tactical formation, and we're supposed to feel bad for these people? You think they wouldn't do the same if the roles were reversed?

"Warriors" one and all...


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## JBS (Oct 24, 2013)

Interesting article.   I'd love to hear what some old timers who actually used to have to fly in the bombers and use optics made out of glass before manually opening bomb bay doors, or crew members who sat behind 20mm cannons in a glass sphere to help fight off enemy air-to-air fighters while on bombing runs would have to say about this.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 25, 2013)

LOOON said:


> I have PTSD from playing call of duty.



I have PTSD from reading the article.


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## RackMaster (Oct 25, 2013)

surgicalcric said:


> I have PTSD from reading the article.


 
I have PTSD from "dropping the kids off at the pool" this morning.


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## racing_kitty (Oct 25, 2013)

I have PTSD from looking in the mirror this morning.


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## JHD (Oct 25, 2013)

Freefalling said:


> your post...



Someone will probably say I am wrong to think this way, but why does the US insist on playing on an uneven field?  I know we are trying to stick to the moral high ground, but until the enemy changes their way of thinking that by eliminating women and children they are reducing the future fighting force while demoralizing the current one, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.  They use our own morals against us using the human shields.  But I know I am preaching to the choir.


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## racing_kitty (Oct 25, 2013)

racing_kitty said:


> I have PTSD from looking in the mirror this morning.



Apparently the sarcasm in my last post wasn't quite as obvious as I thought.

Oops.... :wall:


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## x SF med (Oct 25, 2013)

racing_kitty said:


> Apparently the sarcasm in my last post wasn't quite as obvious as I thought.
> 
> Oops.... :wall:


 
I took it to mean you had a rough night last night...   and left it where it was, writhing in agony at the side of the road....:-"


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## DA SWO (Oct 25, 2013)

x SF med said:


> I took it to mean you had a rough night last night...   and left it where it was, writhing in agony at the side of the road....:-"


I just assumed she gnawed her hand off again and was getting a new one fitted.


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## dknob (Oct 25, 2013)

racing_kitty said:


> I have PTSD from looking in the mirror this morning.


I have PTSD from looking at you this morning


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## DA SWO (Oct 25, 2013)

dknob said:


> I have PTSD from looking at you this morning


Which may explain why she felt the urge to gnaw an arm off.


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## x SF med (Oct 25, 2013)

SOWT said:


> Which may explain why she felt the urge to gnaw an arm off.


 

Nah, in that case, it would have been his, not hers...


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## amlove21 (Oct 25, 2013)

JHD said:


> Someone will probably say I am wrong to think this way, but why does the US insist on playing on an uneven field?  I know we are trying to stick to the moral high ground, but until the enemy changes their way of thinking that by eliminating women and children they are reducing the future fighting force while demoralizing the current one, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.  They use our own morals against us using the human shields.  But I know I am preaching to the choir.


Well, not being too idealistic here- but we stick to the moral high ground because history has shown us that those in power willing to disregard morals and ethics in favor of military victory are classically seen as tyrannical and oppressive given a couple decades/centuries to armchair quarterback it. After a while, it stops looking like we are "targeting the next wave of terrorists" and starts looking like we are "blowing up schools and mosques on the shakiest of predicators". "Liberating a population" looks much more like "genocide and ethnic cleansing" if seemingly blurry lines are crossed. 

Easiest thought experiment here to illustrate my point- put yourself in their shoes, even if for a moment. An overwhelming and efficient military force takes over America. We have no recourse to defend ourselves, our way of life. Theocratic rule- and not _our_ theocratic rule is imposed on us. Wouldn't the entirety of America be 'insurgents'? Wouldn't every blade of grass wave as those guns hidden behind them aimed at our oppressors, every road laced with IED's? And what would our reaction be to that force blowing up our children to prevent our country to ever rise again- because that's what we do if we allow strikes where children are the target. No, I do not weep when I see children as collateral targets- but no, I don't approve of rampant destruction of a target where children are the main occupiers, and I would be happy to think we keep to that moral high ground more often than we do not. 

And yes, most of this opinion comes directly from the show Homeland, I just finished season 1 last night, so I am pretty much an expert on all of this stuff.


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## JHD (Oct 25, 2013)

I know you are right, but it really bugs me that we play by the rules when our enemies don't.  The rules of engagement, that pesky Geneva Convention, etc.  but sinking to their level makes us lesser beings.


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## x SF med (Oct 26, 2013)

But, But, But....  we use drones and the people on the joysticks are just really stressed and have airconditioning and might not get a bathroom break for like.... 2 hours...  that's just torturous....  and inhumane...


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## Marine0311 (Oct 26, 2013)

This is fucking stupid. No drone operator should get anything of this level.


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## Flagg (Oct 27, 2013)

Two months ago I ran 3x3 days on the small arms weapons simulator.

Like playing call of duty in a movie theatre.

After about day 7 it started giving me a headache.

I think I've got PTSD too.


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## Crusader74 (Oct 27, 2013)

Nice flight suit ...


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## AWP (Nov 7, 2013)

Tonight over dinner I'm browsing one of the better comedy sites on the Internet, cracked.com, when I stumbled across this gem:

http://www.cracked.com/article_20725_6-myths-about-drone-warfare-you-probably-believe.html

Hell, this is Cracked so it's going to be funny, right?

Then I read this:


> My name is Brandon Bryant, and I spent six years fighting America's wars via robot.


 
Fuck me running. THAT guy?



> The work itself is grueling. You can't sleep. You can't read (I broke that rule more often than not). You can't do anything to entertain yourself but look at the screen. Now do that for three to five years, 11.5 hours a day. If you ask to take a break, you'll be told, "The guys overseas don't get breaks."


 
Oh. My. God.



> Add it all up and* drone pilots work half-day shifts with few breaks and no phone privileges*, and 85 percent of the time there's no action. *My greatest accomplishment as an operator was being part of the longest Predator mission ever flown*. It had no missiles, just a buttload of fuel. We launched, flew the entire shift, left for the night, came back the next day, and jumped in on that drone -- which was still in the air. I flew it my entire shift and landed it that night.


 
FUCK those guys I helped, my big kudo is the longest mission ever flown.



> You need a special code to get into each box, and you're pretty much alone with your partner for the duration of the shift. It's always kept at 68 degrees, *so you're cold*. And the lights are typically off. Over the years, the stench of each individual person gets sucked into the seat. A couple pilots and I came up with a mathematical equation for how many farts each seat absorbed over the course of the year. It was around 17,000.


 
Now I just hate these guys. Jackets? We don't need no stinkin' jackets. The temp in those rooms are for the equipment, not the dripping vaginas operating the equipment. Moron.



> Drones are some of the highest-tech instruments of war ever designed. In fact, they're TOO high-tech for the brass to understand very well. They accept that new technology is inevitable, but they'll be damned if they're going to learn how it _works_. Think about when your grandparents finally caved and signed up for AOL. That's how well our officers understand drones.


 
Dude finally made some sense, but too late.

The best part is his Cracked user name: FallWithHonor. I assure you Brandon, there's nothing honorable about your antics. Nothing.


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## Salt USMC (Nov 7, 2013)

To be fair, the way he described his job made it sound boring to the point of suicide.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 7, 2013)

Wow.  If life is so hard, turn the drone program and the A-10s over to the Army.  We'll find a way to make it work.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 8, 2013)

x SF med said:


> But, But, But....  we use drones and the people on the joysticks are just really stressed and have airconditioning and might not get a bathroom break for like.... 2 hours...  that's just torturous....  and inhumane...



I am sure they have pittle packs...


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## x SF med (Nov 8, 2013)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> I am sure they have pittle packs...


 
Hey, that's the 2 liter bottle that truckers turn into offensive weapons....  right?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 8, 2013)

I've only seen the gatorade variety.  2-litres seems like a bit much.


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## CDG (Sep 30, 2014)

Here's the newest article about America's frontline barrel-chested freedom fighters.  

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_26626251



> While drone operators are not physically in harm's way — they do their work at computer terminals in darkened rooms far from the actual battlefield — growing research is finding they too can suffer some of the emotional strains of war that ground forces face.
> "It can be as impactful for these guys as someone in a foxhole," said Air Force spokesman Tom Kimball.


 


> Brandon Bryant manned the cameras for pilots at Air Force bases in Nevada and New Mexico for about five years.
> He said he still suffers from insomnia, depression and nightmares three years after he participated in his last mission. He witnessed the direct killing of 13 people, and his squadron was credited with killing 1,626 enemies.
> "I would go to sleep and dream about work, the mission, and continuously see the people I'd watched on the screen earlier now in my own head repeatedly being killed," he said, adding that he felt alone and that no one wanted to talk about it.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 30, 2014)

CDG said:


> Here's the newest article about America's frontline barrel-chested freedom fighters.
> 
> http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_26626251



I have no sympathy for them.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Sep 30, 2014)

CDG said:


> Here's the newest article about America's frontline barrel-chested freedom fighters.
> 
> http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_26626251



SANTA CRUZ?!?  Of course the only thing relating to the military that the hippy cunts in Santa Cruz will write about are the sensor operators that will play CoD for days on end with no issues, but move it to a different monitor, and they can't sleep anymore.  This article reads eerily similar to another one I read here.

Figures, it is the same guy in the article FF linked to in the first post in this thread...  The Drone "Warrior". :wall:


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## Ranger Psych (Sep 30, 2014)

I grew up in Watsonville.... fuck Santa Cruz.... even the boardwalk isn't worth saving.


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## AWP (Sep 30, 2014)

One would imagine if drone operators are experiencing PTSD from their "conditions" then the -12 aircrews should possess corresponding rates of PTSD; a TV screen's a TV screen.... If anything, the added stress of being in an REAL airplane, ones that crash and kill the crews, should INCREASE rates of PTSD among the -12 crews. That these guys and gals aren't running out and crying us a river says a lot about their character and that of the drone "crews"....


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## Brill (Sep 30, 2014)

How many drone pilots or sensor ops have been killed or wounded as a result of enemy action?

Yep, just like being on the ground. (Who uses foxhole anymore?)


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Sep 30, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> One would imagine if drone operators are experiencing PTSD from their "conditions" then the -12 aircrews should possess corresponding rates of PTSD; a TV screen's a TV screen.... If anything, the added stress of being in an REAL airplane, ones that crash and kill the crews, should INCREASE rates of PTSD among the -12 crews. That these guys and gals aren't running out and crying us a river says a lot about their character and that of the drone "crews"....



Don't forget the AC130 crews, the -8 crews, the f-18, f-16, a-10, etc...


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## AWP (Sep 30, 2014)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Don't forget the AC130 crews, the -8 crews, the f-18, f-16, a-10, etc...


 
Great point. How many AC-130 crews have PTSD? I'm not saying people SHOULDN'T, that PTSD is out of the question, but suddenly the drone operators would have us believe they and they alone carry this horrible burden under horrible conditions and that masses of them suffer from psychological issues...but sensor operators on other platforms don't?

Me thinks the drone crews doth protest too much.


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## Brill (Sep 30, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Great point. How many AC-130 crews have PTSD? I'm not saying people SHOULDN'T, that PTSD is out of the question, but suddenly the drone operators would have us believe they and they alone carry this horrible burden under horrible conditions and that masses of them suffer from psychological issues...but sensor operators on other platforms don't?
> 
> Me thinks the drone crews doth protest too much.



You clearly have no idea the suffering endured after smelling the residue of 17,000 farts.

Seriously though, do drone people get hostile fire pay and tax free entitlements?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Sep 30, 2014)

lindy said:


> You clearly have no idea the suffering endured after smelling the residue of 17,000 farts.
> 
> Seriously though, do drone people get hostile fire pay and tax free entitlements?



The ones in theatre do.  I don't believe the CONUS ones do.


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## CDG (Sep 30, 2014)

Fuck Brandon Bryant.  Article after article he's the only fucking turd whining about this.


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## AWP (Sep 30, 2014)

CDG said:


> Fuck Brandon Bryant.  Article after article he's the only fucking turd whining about this.


 
Yes and no. There was a Major out there lobbying for medals, one may have been drone-specific, for the drone guys. He actually registered here, flamed out, and took the Hammer. His argument was laughable, but included "stress" as justification for the award. So, similar or parallel arguments are being made elsewhere, this clown just happens to be the most vocal.

Another thought: where are the masses of drone crews telling this guy to shut his pie hole? Surely they know about his articles, so their silence is tacit approval of his antics. Or are they speaking out and we're not aware of their complaints?

As an aside, the days of keeping your mouth shut when someone from your community "goes rogue" are just about over. Social media and "news" sources will publish any scandalous crap, so a community closing ranks doesn't do itself a great service. They are painted with a broad brush when only one side of the story is told. The concept of "quiet professionalism" where one's job is concerned needs to shift to accomodate this new reality.


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## BloodStripe (Sep 30, 2014)

Freefalling said:


> Yes and no. There was a Major out there lobbying for medals, one may have been drone-specific, for the drone guys. He actually registered here, flamed out, and took the Hammer. His argument was laughable, but included "stress" as justification for the award. So, similar or parallel arguments are being made elsewhere, this clown just happens to be the most vocal.
> 
> Another thought: where are the masses of drone crews telling this guy to shut his pie hole? Surely they know about his articles, so their silence is tacit approval of his antics. Or are they speaking out and we're not aware of their complaints?
> 
> As an aside, the days of keeping your mouth shut when someone from your community "goes rogue" are just about over. Social media and "news" sources will publish any scandalous crap, so a community closing ranks doesn't do itself a great service. They are painted with a broad brush when only one side of the story is told. The concept of "quiet professionalism" where one's job is concerned needs to shift to accomodate this new reality.





Freefalling said:


> That these guys and gals aren't running out and crying us a river says a lot about their character and that of the drone "crews"....



I believe you answered your own questions/statement.


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## TheSiatonist (Oct 1, 2014)

lindy said:


> You clearly have no idea the suffering endured after smelling the residue of 17,000 farts.


That's like being subjected to a biological weapon....  but in small, small doses.  Right?


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Oct 1, 2014)

lindy said:


> You clearly have no idea the suffering endured after smelling the residue of 17,000 farts.



At least they get real shitters...  the -12 guys/gals are lucky to even get a Thunder Bucket!  Which sucks for the pilots because air gets picked up in the rear and dumped in their face.


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## Gunz (Oct 1, 2014)

Paul Tibbets would tell them to man the fuck up.


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## DA SWO (Oct 1, 2014)

Other then Brandon? how many drone guys/gals are running to the press screaming PTSD?


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## Gunz (Oct 2, 2014)

GQ, Esquire, liberal media, they go out of their way to find the cry babies and give them lots of print space or airtime. These drone operators are killing evil dudes, enemies of the civilized world. They should be celebrating every kill at the NCO club after work. They don't have to look close-up at the men they shoot.  And they don't have to smell them rotting in the sun.

To all drone operators other than this guy--_Keep up the good work. _


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## 8654Maine (Oct 2, 2014)

Ocoka One said:


> ...
> To all drone operators other than this guy--_Keep up the good work... _



Second that.

To every attention whore dingbat out there, I strongly recommend reading the definition of "professional" and practicing it.

I contrast this to our week:  multiple MVA, MCA, one pregnant lady we did a crash C-section in the ED to save her baby, multiple intubation, hemothorax, ruptured diaphragm, a nurse hearing about her Grandfather's head bleed and C-spine frx.

You know what, in spite of all the blood, chaos and death that was right in front of them, they fulfilled their mission.

Stop with the "woe is me shit".

Where the fuck is the leadership?


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## CDG (Nov 7, 2014)

For fuck's sake: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/post...ilot_it_is_oddly_war_at_a_very_intimate_level

Highlights of this interview include these gems:

"Now, we're at the point where RPA pilots are getting the most combat experience of anyone."
"The RPA is remotely operated, but it's very much a manned aircraft."
:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## Brill (Nov 7, 2014)

CDG said:


> For fuck's sake: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/post...ilot_it_is_oddly_war_at_a_very_intimate_level
> 
> Highlights of this interview include these gems:
> 
> ...



Right, so does that make these clowns combat vets?

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## Kraut783 (Nov 7, 2014)

Yep, combat vets with PTSD claims  :wall:


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## DA SWO (Nov 7, 2014)

lindy said:


> Right, so does that make these clowns combat vets?
> 
> 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xjw88p2B3rnV6pDFD8WGKg4xnHlTTP9oGpBucQQqdxhWbp5ftx8qVZCzkuVAJySRsN96nDnbspNw1RSaJx8XI/KehxtWm/TNGrC65V5AfgFe60Y1sojgeJK+R6KKk3sIE70+cFcNRvbrqd/EHD/wBjG65GP1jSdpVjJqGpW9oiMxkkAOOw7n6V1qz8VEtoAvKioCcdB1FdPj41J2yc5UivqFtNfT28UUirBDJunLnmIG5HlgnFN2jaiLTRYhb2NxN+cZZCu2D3YDuN6EQRtziC35EkCfj5wDnO4ye5oyst5YtGAq8qxhSHJIH90AHJ9TiuTz0m0zr8NPYscY+NyC5jj5CRvH3I86T7+6HJzRN8bxoyjuDRziPUYmvpBcSSsxOTsSfeku4drmZJY0dFJCorbkAdP3Vx4l9LZqTGLQ72STT5ZppZZppJAQAOUZAA+nrVrXr2W2tSiL/aKELA9D3H0qjpSLYW8Sz7mS4YomemckfuqHiq7SR7e3j5ucAyOo3x5dPnXoQdQbOJv+SK0N+sGJsczRIzgY6nGP403fZ3wLYaxo8uo6xCZDdkiAZ3RR1fPmTXOLaB9RvINPt3XnuJEiU56cxA/ZX0jYw2+kabFDGMW1vCFx0PKo61GcqSRTuViZ/2P6L/ALQvP+Jayof+0S8/1c/186yluQaQ3WsKGFEQ4URoFx1HKAKH3V5cWd66JcJCrBTzCNpHPnhQDgevtV+ytBGfFjllLMMmPm5g38qieVor+UxIsvLhSeYDB645jtiu5HMyW0vLMIEgkladtzLNHIAT59KswTTMqxEKSPxS9j7UMuk1G5kMB1OODzgtIy7AHzb/AAFUJNMmgYQ2dzqEz9h4qouPXYmjSAi5quv21trFrHPhIMMkcjbBm74oNx5aWWt6E6rayzXCLm0kBCYPmM9QfLvtigvFXjx6tpkt60Jitw5YzSBYlbA5cHrIRvkDPbpRCT7QNJnC2K2jSQtGxubmT4VACn8IOSd8Yz51Nyj0xqZyyDhvW7qQxw6bcFx1DLy9Pesl0HVrG3e5u7GWO3VzGznGA39d+ldATTr2+tI7nSl1KVZt/wAxG5C+h5R8s1LqVzLJp0+mahMllGsDeIlyhWTlA35VODn32ziuSOVuVFpQSjZz2y0woq3013FaRghoeb4mlweyjfHvtTlqvHDPo0CWFvFFHCGUPMg55277DfHue1IE94Wkbwhyxj4VXyA6V4RLMg5CSidOwFO9sVF1Jbi8hZ7u6EdqpCeHGAN8dFRQB89h61j3UcaLFaJhVGzyAMfpjAqCCfxLKaMqAycjAjuM4/5qh5t6tEVkryF355X5j0LMM7VOBcahOzwxPO0jb+DETue2ANqqZ5vh7HrtTDwPxPJw19/5YTKJlU+HzcuCp6/QmhKTitGjGLdMHXVvbfdYY2t3jul/tnZjkkdRgnA7VRmKBCFOw+tdE0HgfW+OpZdbvyunWty35lmiLNIPMDbbA/EetXtQ+w/UF5vuetwSADIWaFkJ+fSipJLQGtnJElZG3PvUuo3HjSrg/CiBRTbqv2WcUabA87W0FxEo5meG4XAHn8WKT7q2mtZjFcxPFIOqsMVO9j06sd+ANONnDJqrwNceLGVi8Mj4MHfPrtTZHZ3f3T77FymV1ZliJxgEkjf6VzrhrV4rS3aG4up4lDEhUkKg5+WKadI1x7m6S0tmE6yN8Kc+4Hrjrtntiu7HKKgRd2X+GIZw+oTXDSEicrGDvkeh9Sf31Nx5rd1YWEdt40kdw4BblwGx5Zo3aahZWUMN2JFnQsVVwcgMAR/y4rknF+tTaxrE0zn4VbCDr06V5WR+3I/wd+N+vEWYrS7uJ1ihRyz5Adz09auHTp3uUt7YxRzcoaRJV+JcHbcdutXdL4enj0wXWoalPbXHKGLK4HhoP0Tn6k/Krdk0NncvcT6h98muoUKEIFIjXO5x/epHSejW5bD/AArwNFO0d/rzm5mVuZLZGPhgjoW6ZPp0p0a3jicww28Kjpy8orTSlktbCAEcp5Ax9zVa4v8Awr1GkyMtufKpvI3ousMUrLT2DKUbw7ckHK5iGx9KCcTflC4094IHEaEEOFPKZPIc2DgfKrN9qxMnMs+FA2oNe608TkRvkHsRVFaOdo5z+TeJf9UP/t1ldA/L3/dY/pWU/s/RPiR6LxSl9FGySSeIMI1oSqKBjJfmB+Ie+PYUzw6zaXUCGythP4QIaQN4cUY74fH7vrXCLDkRBJIMowHcgde+PnUmsX7zrHbo7rAqjMQYhWPYkdD1rp9zJygr0dX1rj3QNNg+72pkmdchoLQjGfVxsN+tI+pfaFqt5hLWKK0t8fgjJZj7tt+6kzOKsW6RujSSlsKfwgfi+dI5uRuKRJLJLdXRlmdpZ3P4mySfQfyo/wANX9jok8t1qFjFeSFOSKGTDcpJ3OOmdh1pea9EaFYQFJGPh2+p6mqbys/4m+VDj+WbkPetfafr15CbW3uPucGOVY7fHMqjtz4GPkBSXJPJM7l3OZchznJOeuT1NVc16GrKMY/1VA7IihGec8tFtFvvyaLgSQxyCaMKyTLkYzk7Z71SOPg8FPzrDd23wfSrn5ONtPaksJHmjEhU9N84HXrgVmw0bwW1vML+aKVYQQRHb8rHmBI2DE9vXyqpFaO+D1o7mzSLwzbSLL0wMLjIz3Jz69Kpwy8zCOBC7+WK1v4FV9IY7QIQGVj57U86fwXbvYWd3rE9yt8x8WO2t1UKqdVLZB3OAceWNvOvwjbaXHrUN1xGrvbwkSeDEnOhcdOYZ3FdAtOIrOOWecXjPA7mTnntmBTJ6Bgu/scUJyklofGot7Ldle8QRossd/P4Eacp8a1jkKj15Sv8KInWtYhsLm7aa3uIoI+eWNrYxMyn9Qqzb7jtQ6HU7e4kMum3NrPIy7PDMGBHkR0qvxhxBoGj2NrZ6vLJ94vgsjLCOYIF6cwGcLnyyanCU29lcigkC9S4mvOJ4hZ2FvHByJnwJZwvit0GWONum2K5RxDYahZXht9ViAuixbl5lI98jt6Gi3EnENs7yRcMxSxRnY3MmzH+4DuPc/F7UrFhH8MpLcxzIwOWx6GqKCuxPa+PH4HuGeG5b2Zb1TCLVSVIkz+cGNyKcINNsdNsFQKokbPiMijLx7/Ac9sHf2FKNjrtyHit7CMzMy4RF/RA7Gr8t7qk0ckV5bi2I/CX5sEe4BFTk5v9Ail2R8Sarc6hImm6aTyDfCHfoP2CqXCGki41qSacc8VmQBtsX7VUhS8sp5tSYAQqjIHbbnOMAAd98Ua0srBp6WCzcufzl5IDu7HcoPlgE9q3UdG7Zb4hu5bu1kNs4WGKQBMY/OsOpPoOg9c1DpVnN90bUbuZxNNnlw3KeUdsgdO9VtauvFWO0tQAWPIgG3kBRbUWWzsYrdAuIlUcpO2w8qndKinbsaLe21PUdMs54r/w52TnC4xle3fJO1SPY6mivJeSIdhnO2aDaZq13fNbambqKKNlB/B8XMMgrny7VPqF/PcOxlc8nYZyKi9OjuSTSaPL+WLwiXlK+YAoT4ni5VlBdcFiWwd/IVlxISNzWpliWNGVOaZ92IPbsKom6EcY7sk8I/qmsqb72P8ARN9RWU9o5q/Qu2otJ+El0+ayZbwn+3B6YbIP02oHcabP4jciEqNl88Ua+/RxYUY9zWy6ihIBxjzqxzitJaXCnDRt9KxUlgkTxgVibYg9s96bHmhkwFAJrae1t5o+WRdzWugUJEgKOykYINaZpkv9FWVi0ZIOMCglxYzQZ516d6fkmJRWzXoNa1JGoPWsYt6aw8cIwUhuzdKOQQOYQ0KvI4Z+XkXmKnAGT+3FBrOzluJkW3Rnc/hVBkk+1Fm0+a3Yxsqkps3hNkL6H1qeRNbL4kpLi3QS0HgfUeIbsrFdW1qEUSN4s/PKAeh5FJI/8XLTyPsw1Kz0pxp+p2UknIWmEluYzKck/jyeUeW2x3pK4e8WKctADA4jK88ZKt2Pn6Cj2ratdvYEXV9KVVTzK0pIP7fWprO1qh8njrl2K9hxHbpLGk9vy+E2WVgGU4O467/xr6Cm4ktbaID7mCuNghAFfPItbWdMxE/MA/vrq8rwNYwSLKnhvGrElhscbinWVSYs/HcFfYk8f6tanVbm4ggSGeYhUggOCT3Y/wA6UxaTFBd3mXkk7ny8l9O1GLHSjdard6veIBbTTSNEzNvKobbA7LjqfkPSbWWa2to711XxZyVsom25gNjJjyHQDzG+wIp2xIQ+sVL6TkkPMAhX9HpihlwzNhShz196kvJ/EICuWAYlm7s3c0w8F8G33ETvO0sFlp8GPGu7rZVHXYHr89qKVCzlbGDg7SorfTUljiLXEwHOzdcfqii2tt+TbVkurWck4IgEZLOfL/Gi1qLHRlMNjObz4crcvJzGRR+kB0Ue2B6mhmp8b6daB4on+8O42dMsu3ke/wAq5XbnpWdShFQtuhDn0bX9Yl8drGVEJ+AOQixjtgE5x64yaZIeE4FUSSyhZCo5yG2JP8a3uNauNQtIZLCQq7NzAcpbvgjA79qOcG6BrHEaTyXrNYwwyCNXaFg0hIycK2NsEb+tUfKWiK4xYDstAjttRSfxpLidDiGIDJJx5DqabNO+z+91qZZdbVrO0zkoHBlceW34ffr7U6cP8K6doUkkiyy3FzKQGlmx8I8lAAwPPv8ASjlwTnljwA3VvIUVCtsDn8RzziTRbDSPAi0yxW3tUjwFiXKg5/S8yfM0sOvOdgcetdM4g1aHRdEnupRESw5Y4pD+Mn07+Z9q5XwQt7r1/eCdiyRYkUhAqbncDb+tqSWJt2jphm4xpolFoZjypGWPpVm24YllXmuZDGv6qbn607afoRgP5wZ9BsKJCwTPM++OwpljrsjPM5dCJ/k1YfqS/wDmH+VeU/fdIf8ARmspuKJcn+T5klLGovFkXbO1bySHyqEuCdzRSAW4bwx4JO4qT8pMZBzNtVArgbGomo0aw/8AlTbGagvLpJlAG5PWhBcgVp47Zx0FGjWXXgR1/NqCR3NXLDR/GUSl/DgH9pLIMBfbz9qp2Up5dhk0w6dF99Aa4bmij/Cg6D5UV2K0WtLhco6aYGt4SOV7k/2kg7geQotFAlvEsUHNAB+LkbqfX16/Xt0rwFUHL8ARQMtgY9/669sYqBrt2cGPACg5didv8PT65NPYpq8hkmaCWNDJ1BVd39unn1ovbaPo0liy6qL2aWYnMUE3KsPluRlj88VT02ezgzJJI/iv+KWUYz7YO3tQzibiMW8f3HTXLXTjdl/zQ/n6UOKG5NGvJZWFw1rHzPIBl1yPg8t/66VrmOVDLIv5oHBXOC5Hb5edDNG02R3ky7NM2DNKTnGew82/d1qe+ljRxFGQiRjB3yP8f4mufJFXo7MU5tXLoOXut2/gI8wHhxxplEXAZsbIo7CkniLVp766llnI8eQBCF/DCg2Ea+g7/wDWq9/qTPL+bJHKTy+nrQwknqc1WMaRDLJPSCmhyWccvNdxZIPwudwvuP419IcHaDa/5MwQXcaTpOviSIRlW5h+0Yr5cRmQhlOD511H7OvtDXSYI7C6f7si4Cs+WgP94dUPqNvMUzJIZ+NPsvCQyXHDfO3PgSWGfhbfblOegydjn0I7x8MfZLbW/JdcRyLM4GfukO0an/ebq3tsPemjWPtD03TLHxrm2nN0QCsC4Kt/vCToV269fSuVS/aHquu8V6W0vx2i3kZWxiPKh37nufU+VD/A99ndrLTIIAkNrDDBAq4HhKM+wxVySY2/ItvE02BuF3xv1JrSGOzhhSVlESsQo5WJ3PQbVaJIBVAAM7ZoUEpJcc93LEw+JVD4PXB2H7jQvivXINE0x5Jvjk6Rxjq7eX8/KiVzFPDI1ykaSuEI5SwUt3Az5ZrifEWo6pqGqzpq9vIk8QOLcJkRrnrgdfff3oFIRUmWdN0zWOOtTke8mxEGHiO4Phwp2RF7/wBGuvWOm21jbxw20KRpGnIMLjagXA2mvY8OWghAR7jM0hKgZJ6Z+VMbRFBmVi/mB3oIEmbsYVG7oPY1D4sTAhT75qvc3kUP4bXPyFBL7U7bH52ylX1RV/nTCDD+Z/WH1rKUPypYf6vefQfzrKNGOB55+tatyKM4rKygYrPMS1ZzkisrKIDw1G3WvaysYmtHKTIRTBpF08NzIq9CObp37V7WUPpvgf8AGeW4FlGeWQjJk/U8+X1PnRqHTrZYhE0fOOvMTuT55rKyqIQVOLLxdMmW2tEbxpFBDschc9/ehWm2eJIwW5ppt2kbfHmR61lZSzdIeKuSQTu5zaxi2hHKACcj+utLepXLDEY27GvayoYtnbm0qQKNeVlZXQcB7W4cgYr2srGJXvbqSyjtHuJWto2LJEWJVScZwO3QVrYXT2V7Bdx/jgkWRfUg5rKysY+tNDuLe6sItRtoTDFPCspQHBycHp0oqW5gjDYbkVlZSMcHLMZpXkdVKr+EYyawhE/AgLcu7N1PzrKylCVTcTIDySEL+rihknEkkUjRGLmA671lZRQDVNVhvs8qyxt8iKo6hYqFMj3EvLjoAM1lZTGAmLP/AEl19B/OsrKynoB//9k=


Just the guy in the Blue Suit with a star on each shoulder.


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 7, 2014)

Well...according to FOX, they are not operators, they are Warriors!



Maybe he was confessing to putting "this" pic on the internet!


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 7, 2014)

CDG said:


> For fuck's sake: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/post...ilot_it_is_oddly_war_at_a_very_intimate_level
> 
> Highlights of this interview include these gems:
> 
> ...



Fucking speechless. :die:


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2014)

Now there's a one woman show about their torment.  There is nothing left now, I've officially seen everything.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/stageandarts/282073231.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/t...lay-grounded-brings-him-to-new-york.html?_r=0

_In “Grounded,” now up in a Frank Theatre production at the Playwrights’ Center in Minneapolis, Sha Cage paces the floor with sharp, quick steps. At the opening of this show and against a backdrop of sky-hued screens, her walk is clear as her words, which are forceful and determined.  Cage plays a fighter pilot who loves nothing more than doing barrel rolls in the blue. Her character, unnamed in George Brant’s highly-charged one-act, is at a crossroads. After becoming pregnant, she decides to have the child and to settle down with the girl’s father._


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## AWP (Nov 9, 2014)

This damn thread is stealing my soul, my will to live. Drawing a breath is too much of a burden to bear...and I'm still not suffering like these drone "warriors."


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## Brill (Nov 9, 2014)

"At least I got chicken." -LJ


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## CDG (Nov 19, 2014)

And it continues:  http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/war-is-no-video-game-not-even-remotely/

_Mentally, the pilot is inside a Predator, though the drone is half a world away. Emotionally, he is at war._

_Nearly a decade-and-a-half after that first-ever intercontinental air strike by a UAV, that fleeting image remains burned into my memory._


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## Raptor (Nov 19, 2014)

CDG said:


> And it continues:  http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/war-is-no-video-game-not-even-remotely/
> 
> _Mentally, the pilot is inside a Predator, though the drone is half a world away. Emotionally, he is at war._
> 
> _Nearly a decade-and-a-half after that first-ever intercontinental air strike by a UAV, that fleeting image remains burned into my memory._


Here I was hoping it was only that one guy. There goes that idea...


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## BloodStripe (Nov 19, 2014)

http://news.yahoo.com/first-pilot-f...s-silence-211651738--abc-news-topstories.html

Herein is a Drone Operator/Pilot who felt he wanted his 15 minutes of fame.


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## Totentanz (Nov 19, 2014)

CDG said:


> And it continues:  http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/war-is-no-video-game-not-even-remotely/
> 
> _Mentally, the pilot is inside a Predator, though the drone is half a world away. Emotionally, he is at war._
> 
> _Nearly a decade-and-a-half after that first-ever intercontinental air strike by a UAV, that fleeting image remains burned into my memory._


 
Why is it, then, that all of these stories are originating in the unmanned elements.  Are (for example) A-10 pilots experiencing the same and we're not hearing about it?  Or is this a "problem" exclusive to the UAS community?


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## DA SWO (Nov 19, 2014)

CDG said:


> And it continues:  http://breakingdefense.com/2014/11/war-is-no-video-game-not-even-remotely/
> 
> _Mentally, the pilot is inside a Predator, though the drone is half a world away. Emotionally, he is at war._
> 
> _Nearly a decade-and-a-half after that first-ever intercontinental air strike by a UAV, that fleeting image remains burned into my memory._



What was so bad about this story?

I fucking want this guy's head in the RPV, and I want him emotionally connected to the guys on the ground.  That emotional connection is supposed to be one of the reasons an A-10 is better then a B-52.  

You've never said a silent "please God don't let me fuck up" prayer, I have (and still do).  

His story struck me as matter-of-fact, I didn't see any whining or I have PTSD, the guy at Creech, cannon, NY, or Asscrackistan has to have his head in the game or he/she will be the next friendly fire story.  

The fact is, you have to "be in the drone" to fly them, leaning and twisting as you fly is no different then someone twisting their body around when "shooting" a FATS M-9 or M-4.

Bitch about something worth bitching about, like the former SrA who never left the TACC at Scott and now claims she dropped bombs on women and children, that's worth bitching about.

Bitch about the fact this guy talked about drones over Afghanistan prior to 2001.



Raptor said:


> Here I was hoping it was only that one guy. There goes that idea...



Seriously dude, your profile says your 16.  Your going to criticize a guy who spent 20+ years in uniform, probably flew low-level over Bosnia and Kosovo and other locations while you were still latched onto your mothers tits.  Make it through the pipeline and I'll be impressed.


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## pardus (Nov 19, 2014)

Totentanz said:


> Why is it, then, that all of these stories are originating in the unmanned elements.  Are (for example) A-10 pilots experiencing the same and we're not hearing about it?  Or is this a "problem" exclusive to the UAS community?



Because mentally real pilots are thinking about pickup lines for chicks in bars. 

But seriously, you bring up a great point, this whole issue is pathetic.


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## Totentanz (Nov 19, 2014)

SOWT said:


> I fucking want this guy's head in the RPV, and I want him emotionally connected to the guys on the ground.  That emotional connection is supposed to be one of the reasons an A-10 is better then a B-52.


 
Absolutely.  PTSD/"tormented operator" issues aside, I agree 100% that this should not be regarded as a video game where the guys on the ground are a figment of my PS3's imagination.


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## pardus (Nov 19, 2014)

To my mind these are cases of people talking themselves into PTSD. That maybe completely fucked up on my part, but that's my thinking.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Nov 19, 2014)

pardus said:


> To my mind these are cases of people talking themselves into PTSD. That maybe completely fucked up on my part, but that's my thinking.



I almost think they consider themselves outcasts, ie. the "forgotten ones".  The ones that are CONUS know they have it better than anyone in combat zones.  My guess is that they want to feel more relevant?  As far as I can tell, it is only the Air Force UAV drivers that are being out spoken.  Do they also have OCONUS deployments like the Army, or are they strictly CONUS operations?  

I thought the second half of the article @SOTGWarrior linked to was interesting.


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## CDG (Nov 19, 2014)

SOWT said:


> What was so bad about this story?


 Like @Totentanz already brought up, the drone "pilots" are the only ones talking about all this crap.  You don't see A-10 or F-16 pilots talking about their missions and how horrible and taxing they were.  You want to make the point that you take the job seriously and it's not a video game, fine.  But enough with the "images scarred into my head".


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## Raptor (Nov 19, 2014)

SOWT said:


> Seriously dude, your profile says your 16.  Your going to criticize a guy who spent 20+ years in uniform, probably flew low-level over Bosnia and Kosovo and other locations while you were still latched onto your mothers tits.  Make it through the pipeline and I'll be impressed.


Originally I had only read the first couple of paragraphs and assumed that he was complaining like that other guy. I just read the whole story and apologize for the disrespect in my first post. Lesson learned: read the whole article.


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## Raptor (Nov 19, 2014)

Sorry if that sounds really crappy, by the way. I've never really been good at making apologies that don't look like they were made by a robot.


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## CDG (Nov 19, 2014)

Raptor said:


> Originally I had only read the first couple of paragraphs and assumed that he was complaining like that other guy. I just read the whole story and apologize for the disrespect in my first post. Lesson learned: read the whole article.


 
Negative.  That wasn't the lesson.  You're 16.  Exactly where do you see a good reason for you to be weighing in on this discussion?


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## Raptor (Nov 19, 2014)

CDG said:


> Negative.  That wasn't the lesson.  You're 16.  Exactly where do you see a good reason for you to be weighing in on this discussion?


Point taken


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## busdriver (Nov 19, 2014)

I think a large issue is PTSD has gained a lot of media coverage, aka those poor warriors we send into harms way.  More of we (the public) should care about these people while also pitying them to make ourselves feel better.  So it becomes a catch all, when in fact there are a myriad of emotional/stress issues associated with war.  

I've heard older heads talk about some of the compartmentalization issues that dudes had during the Balkan conflicts, they lived in Italy often with family and some had problem separating being a husband/father and a combat killer.  I can certainly understand how an RPA pilot (yes they're pilots/crew members) could have some issues with becoming emotionally invested in the outcome of a TIC in Afghanistan, then having to deal with a colicky baby 2 hours later. 

There are certainly some attention whores in the mix however.


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## Brill (Jan 21, 2015)

This shit just won't go away.  Is the story REALLY that compelling?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483010


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## pardus (Jan 21, 2015)

lindy said:


> This shit just won't go away.  Is the story REALLY that compelling?
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483010



That guy's a fucking wanker.


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## CDG (Jan 21, 2015)

Fucking Brandon Bryant.  That little prick just won't go the fuck away.


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## Raptor (Jan 21, 2015)

lindy said:


> This shit just won't go away.  Is the story REALLY that compelling?
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483010


Well, from what I've seen on the news lately, it seems like the media finds anything that goes against the norm compelling...


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## LibraryLady (Jan 21, 2015)

Raptor said:


> Well, from what I've seen on the news lately, it seems like the media finds anything that goes against the norm compelling...


Young un....

That's the definition of news.  Not just lately, but for all time.  It's not compelling for media folk it's a money maker.  

Could you please refrain from stating the obvious?

LL


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## busdriver (Jan 21, 2015)

It's compelling because people romanticize war, snipers are cowards (Michael Moore) because they shoot people from afar, and don't give them a "fighting chance."  Drones are evil because they're "all seeing eyes in the sky that kill without letting the guy on the ground have a chance," they don't understand that this isn't about proving who has bigger balls.  They don't get that fighting fair is dumb when there are other options. 

I think it's partly why America has a love affair with SOF, you guys fit their accepted mold of man vs man.  Airpower made it more removed, but at least there's still a guy in a cockpit.  Once you remove any personal risk people are faced with the ugly reality of what war really is: to quote Eddie Rickenbacker, "Fighting in the air is not sport, it's scientific murder."  He was just ahead of his time.


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## Red Flag 1 (Jan 21, 2015)

lindy said:


> This shit just won't go away.  Is the story REALLY that compelling?
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483010



This one is so weak, that it can only be prep work for yet another weak story. Who knows, maybe this guy is a wiz at writting, or already has a shit hot agent scripting for him. If nothing else, 20 to 25 minutes of "fame" for him. Really, he is a failed drone pilot, and that won't sell.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 16, 2015)

Anyone know how to fly a drone?  

http://www.startribune.com/air-force-cuts-drone-flights-as-pilots-burn-out/307738861/

_CREECH AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. – After a decade of waging long-distance war through their video screens, America’s drone operators are burning out, and the Air Force is being forced to cut back on the flights even as military and intelligence officials are demanding more over intensifying combat zones in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

The Air Force plans to trim the flights by the armed surveillance drones to 60 a day by October from a recent peak of 65 as it deals with the first serious exodus of the crew members who helped usher in a new era of war by remote control.

Air Force officials said that this year they would lose more drone pilots, who are worn down by the stresses of their work, than they can train._


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## pardus (Jun 16, 2015)

Who knew video games were so tough!?


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## AWP (Jun 16, 2015)

According to that great bard Justin Timberlake, cry me a river.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2015)

Once again, I would happily turn in my retirement, disability, etc... to be a drone pilot. I think that it's the perfect job for disabled/prior service for the operators. You don't need to be able to hit rudders because an electronic twist stick would allow you the same effective action (It's how I flew everything flight simming) which means even lower extremity amputees would be able to do it. Everything else? The guys have already seen this stuff and are as hardened to it as they're going to be, they have more understanding of the ground mission if that's what they're going to end up supporting.... and there's no heartache if the command chain says "that's the guy".

Plus we cheered when we watched gibs flying from airstrike/AC-130 videos, so once again, no problemo man...


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## pardus (Jun 17, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Once again, I would happily turn in my retirement, disability, etc... to be a drone pilot. I think that it's the perfect job for disabled/prior service for the operators. You don't need to be able to hit rudders because an electronic twist stick would allow you the same effective action (It's how I flew everything flight simming) which means even lower extremity amputees would be able to do it. Everything else? The guys have already seen this stuff and are as hardened to it as they're going to be, they have more understanding of the ground mission if that's what they're going to end up supporting.... and there's no heartache if the command chain says "that's the guy".
> 
> Plus we cheered when we watched gibs flying from airstrike/AC-130 videos, so once again, no problemo man...



Have you inquired about getting into it?


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 17, 2015)

Air Force barely takes prior service, I have an RE-4 reenlistment code due to being medically retired. It'd take an act of God, basically, if I was to re-enter the service.


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## pardus (Jun 17, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Air Force barely takes prior service, I have an RE-4 reenlistment code due to being medically retired. It'd take an act of God, basically, if I was to re-enter the service.



Gotcha. Shame...


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## CDG (Jun 17, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Air Force barely takes prior service, I have an RE-4 reenlistment code due to being medically retired. It'd take an act of God, basically, if I was to re-enter the service.



What about the Air Guard?  I know when I joined, active USAF was completely closed to prior service, despite TACP being a critically manned AFSC.  Guard was no problem though.


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## Brill (Jun 17, 2015)

Ranger Psych said:


> Air Force barely takes prior service, I have an RE-4 reenlistment code due to being medically retired. It'd take an act of God, basically, if I was to re-enter the service.



Become a contractor! God knows they will accept ANYONE.


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## AWP (Jun 17, 2015)

lindy said:


> Become a contractor! God knows they will accept ANYONE.



That isn't true and you know it. They will take ALMOST anyone.

:wall::-"


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## DA SWO (Jun 17, 2015)

lindy said:


> Become a contractor! God knows they will accept ANYONE.


You don't even need security certs to get hired.


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## Kraut783 (Jun 17, 2015)

lindy said:


> This shit just won't go away.  Is the story REALLY that compelling?
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30483010



"He found it hard to sleep and started dreaming in infra-red." ....heh


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## Queeg (Jun 17, 2015)

Props for the Queensryche reference.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 21, 2015)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ts-drone-force.html?via=mobile&source=twitter


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## AWP (Jun 21, 2015)

This was a problem in 2005? After 3 years of war? Were they beating the crews on a daily basis? By that point some ODAs were on their 2rd or 3rd deployment where people actually shot at them and these guys were fed up after three YEARS?

I'd be ashamed.


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## Ranger Psych (Jun 22, 2015)

It's the air force. Sitting stateside in an air conditioned building is hard work.

It's not like we have an entire Corps in the Army dedicated to the concept of not trusting the USAF to land their own aircraft.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 16, 2015)

Hey look, it's another tormented drone operator.

Nope, wait, my bad, it's the same guy.  Again.


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## Brill (Oct 17, 2015)

Is it just me or is this the dumbest fucking thing ever printed?  Again, using Hillary's private classified server as precedence, there are clear rules for USG-affiliates and the rest of America.

When did accountability become a special superpower???

Attorney: Federal personnel should not be looking at leaked drone documents | Myinforms


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## Dame (Oct 17, 2015)

lindy said:


> Is it just me or is this the dumbest fucking thing ever printed?  Again, using Hillary's private classified server as precedence, there are clear rules for USG-affiliates and the rest of America.
> When did accountability become a special superpower???
> Attorney: Federal personnel should not be looking at leaked drone documents | Myinforms



Oh yeah. That's for real alright. We've been warned not to get on any site with leaked classified info.


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## Brill (Oct 17, 2015)

Dame said:


> Oh yeah. That's for real alright. We've been warned not to get on any site with leaked classified info.



Same here but the definition in itself makes ZERO sense.  TS is defined as unauthorized disclosure could cause exceptionally grave damage but disclosure doesn't automatically declassify the info.

Executive Order 13526- Classified National Security Information

Once a disclosure occurs and damage is presumed, what is gained by continuing to assert that the material is classified?  Additionally, why in hell would clearance holders, who have already display/garnered a higher level of trust than John Q, be restricted from reading a publication that is available to John Q, who has ZERO trust?

I suspect the real purpose is to prosecute the leaker...unless your affiliated with Clintons then you get keys to the White House.

Another head scratcher:

Report on Disclosures to the Media is Classified


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## Gunz (Oct 17, 2015)

It makes sense to people who think like Donald Rumsfeld.


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## pardus (Oct 21, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> Hey look, it's another tormented drone operator.
> 
> Nope, wait, my bad, it's the same guy.  Again.



I hope that prick has a car accident.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 21, 2015)

lindy said:


> ...
> Once a disclosure occurs and damage is presumed, what is gained by continuing to assert that the material is classified?  Additionally, why in hell would clearance holders, who have already display/garnered a higher level of trust than John Q, be restricted from reading a publication that is available to John Q, who has ZERO trust?



"Compromised" doesn't mean "declassified," and "clearance" doesn't equate to "need to know."  That's why.


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## CQB (Oct 21, 2015)

racing_kitty said:


> His antiperspirant failed? Or perhaps he got a little pick me up from his girlfriend Molly. I've seen ravers sweat in 40'F weather.



The only hazard...not a smoke free workplace. Will he apply for compo?


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## Brill (Oct 23, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> "Compromised" doesn't mean "declassified," and "clearance" doesn't equate to "need to know."  That's why.



Yes, I understand USC 18.  Practically, if the info is compromised and accessible to the GenPop, what is the purpose of holding ONLY clearance holders to a standard that doesn't apply?  I'm all for informing clearance holders about the need NOT to comment publicly about classified matters but to threaten them if they read open source info?  What does the USG gain by that?

Isn't it illegal to publish (e.g. distribute) classified material without authorization?  Wonder why US news outlets aren't held to that standard?


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## x SF med (Oct 23, 2015)

@lindy...  the part of the issue that gets me, is that most people in the government or the military don't know that the less they yabber on about  things, the less chance they have of saying anything to undermine their jobs or mission.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 23, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Sigh...Cry me a river.
> 
> Confessions of an American Drone Operator



How the Fuck does someone get PTS from playing a video game?


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## CDG (Oct 23, 2015)

surgicalcric said:


> How the Fuck does someone get PTS from playing a video game?



Haven't you heard the party line?  "It is not a video game, it is nothing like a video game."


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 23, 2015)

I still think that drone op should be a lat-move/service transfer/prior service only duty position, with modified physical standards. I know that plenty of people who can't do their normal jobs would be fully capable of doing this, if they wanted to stay in.


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## JedisonsDad (Nov 1, 2015)

I have no issues doing what I do. Every night after I land, I Skype my kids, joke around with the guys, and then as soon as my head hits that pillow, it's lights out. 

The fact that I get to smell that cordite as I watch the sparks of a 105MM hitting the ground, or that I get to see the flames shoot out of the plane as we unleash a 12 second burst of 25MM just makes my job even better.

Maybe this guy needs to meet some of the guys he supports. Not that there was ever any uneasiness about what I do, but the first time I visited one of the JTACs and handed the brass that killed the asshole that shot him, to him rather than his family, that removed any issues that could ever potentially pop up.


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## AWP (Nov 1, 2015)

JedisonsDad said:


> Maybe this guy needs to meet some of the guys he supports. Not that there was ever any uneasiness about what I do, but the first time I *visited one of the JTACs and handed the brass that killed the asshole that shot him, to him rather than his family*, that removed any issues that could ever potentially pop up.



Shack.


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## Brill (Nov 1, 2015)

JedisonsDad said:


> I have no issues doing what I do. Every night after I land, I Skype my kids, joke around with the guys, and then as soon as my head hits that pillow, it's lights out.
> 
> The fact that I get to smell that cordite as I watch the sparks of a 105MM hitting the ground, or that I get to see the flames shoot out of the plane as we unleash a 12 second burst of 25MM just makes my job even better.
> 
> Maybe this guy needs to meet some of the guys he supports. Not that there was ever any uneasiness about what I do, but the first time I visited one of the JTACs and handed the brass that killed the asshole that shot him, to him rather than his family, that removed any issues that could ever potentially pop up.



Hug your "Hobbit" for me.


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## AWP (Nov 29, 2015)

"Now" contractors are available for this year's PTSD Tour.

Air Force hires civilian drone pilots for combat patrols; critics question legality



> The Air Force has hired civilian defense contractors to fly MQ-9 Reaper drones to help track suspected militants and other targets in global hot spots, a previously undisclosed expansion in the privatization of once-exclusively military functions.
> 
> For the first time, civilian pilots and crews now operate what the Air Force calls "combat air patrols," daily round-the-clock flights above areas of military operations to provide video and collect other sensitive intelligence.



I sure am glad civilians weren't flying manned ISR missions in Afghanistan and Iraq....  Mad props to the world for "discovering" a "secret" years after the open-source fact. Stay relevant, vermin.


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## Gunz (Nov 29, 2015)

No matter how dated the material the media never misses a chance to take a shot at the military. As for any PTSD "issues" for drone operators, all symptoms can be adequately treated by a 50 minute drive to the Vegas strip.


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 29, 2015)

Civilian pilots flying anything but passangers in a passanger aircraft work for me. I am not sure I would like to be on the passange manifest of a remotely piloted aircraft. I can see CIA flighing remotely piloted drones for their needs. Civilians flying combat, or combat relaeted mission is well outside the "civilian piolted" drones, is well outside their envelope. If they are, PTSD would be understandable; they are unprepared for their missions. If they are really hiring civillians for this, hell; sign me up.


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## DA SWO (Nov 29, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Civilian pilots flying anything but passangers in a passanger aircraft work for me. I am not sure I would like to be on the passange manifest of a remotely piloted aircraft. I can see CIA flighing remotely piloted drones for their needs. Civilians flying combat, or combat realeted mission is well outside the "civilian piolted" drones, is well outside their envelope. If they are, PTSD would be understandable; they are unprepared for their missions. If they are really hiring civillians for this, hell; sign me up.


I would guess all those "tormented" operators who have retired/separated are lining up for this.


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## SkrewzLoose (Nov 29, 2015)

Speaking of manned ISR, I wonder what my brother would think about the use of "combat air patrols" to describe flying a drone from somewhere stateside.


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## AWP (Dec 11, 2015)

Moar UAV's!

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-air-force-finally-realizes-it-needs-to-greatly-expa-1747618351

More than double the drone fleet even after the AF cut about 19k airmen and many careerfields are less than 90% manning? Well, that's one way to do it....


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## Marauder06 (Dec 11, 2015)

Better start saving up for the therapy hours too.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 11, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Moar UAV's!
> 
> http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-air-force-finally-realizes-it-needs-to-greatly-expa-1747618351
> 
> More than double the drone fleet even after the AF cut about 19k airmen and many careerfields are less than 90% manning? Well, that's one way to do it....



I am waiting for the day that they open up drone operators to general population civilians. I mean non-rated civillians who have reasonably good hand eye coordination. You know, folks with some damned good gaming skills with flying credentials that qualify them  "ace" status on 7 out of 10 fly and fight video games. That could really expand our drone operator capabilities. Since most of them are teens, we could have them up and running for decades to come:-":wall:.

My teeth are starting to itch; back into my wee cave in The Valley.


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## DA SWO (Dec 11, 2015)

I am still trying to understand why RPA operators need a Class III Medical.


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## JedisonsDad (Dec 13, 2015)

DA SWO said:


> I am still trying to understand why RPA operators need a Class III Medical.



Because they're real flyers, of course!

Now where's the jerk off/eye roll smiley???


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## x SF med (Dec 14, 2015)

JedisonsDad said:


> Because they're real flyers, of course!
> 
> Now where's the jerk off/eye roll smiley???


:-/:blkeye:

Take your choice...


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## Marauder06 (Jan 8, 2016)

...this shit again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/u...to-drone-operators-far-from-battles.html?_r=1


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## Grunt (Jan 8, 2016)

Those of us who possess calluses on our knuckles from them dragging the ground will simply never understand the reasoning behind "everyone getting a trophy for xxxx" for performing their job in the military honorably and that being enough reward!


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## DA SWO (Jan 8, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> ...this shit again.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/u...to-drone-operators-far-from-battles.html?_r=1


Seriously?

You don't think they already get awards?  So now they glue the letter "R" to the ribbon, and I suspect other career field (like intel) will also get an ARCOM with "R" when they do a good job, at least it isn't a DFC equivalent.


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## AWP (Jan 8, 2016)

I forget when, but it was pre-2011, that our airmen started telling us how stateside performance and deployed performance were viewed the same. While there's still a deployed block to check for promotion, it was less of an event because of the new focus or thought that everyone is a warfighter (or some such nonsense). It was around that time that I began receiving calls or email from PMEL* asking about our mission, sorties supported, bombs dropped, etc..... over DSN and NIPR. Moving past that WTF moment, we were told this was for various awards and decs for those at their home station. 

I'd be more troubled by the award if we weren't already doing this in some capacity and have for at least 5 years now. BS or not, the horse is gone so good luck closing the barn door. Trophies for everyone!

* - Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory, the folks who calibrate instruments and test equipment.


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## Gunz (Jan 8, 2016)

Those joystick blisters can be a bitch.


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## Brill (Jan 8, 2016)

@Freefalling one thing to remember...Pred/Reaper pilots get paid the same and get same promo points as front line "fighter" pilots.  Why the hell would they deploy?


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## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2016)

I want a "Geek Cross".  I'm glad that we don't give out awards for everything up here.


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## Brill (Jan 8, 2016)

RackMaster said:


> I want a "Geek Cross".



Gold star in lieu of 5th award.


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## DA SWO (Jan 8, 2016)

lindy said:


> @Freefalling one thing to remember...Pred/Reaper pilots get paid the same and get same promo points as front line "fighter" pilots.  Why the hell would they deploy?


No, officer promotion rates are lower than the rest of the line officers, that's one reason they are all bailing.
The drone guys do deploy to Bagram (and other places), control may happen from NV but takeoffs and landings are better if done line of sight.


Freefalling said:


> I forget when, but it was pre-2011, that our airmen started telling us how stateside performance and deployed performance were viewed the same. While there's still a deployed block to check for promotion, it was less of an event because of the new focus or thought that everyone is a warfighter (or some such nonsense). It was around that time that I began receiving calls or email from PMEL* asking about our mission, sorties supported, bombs dropped, etc..... over DSN and NIPR. Moving past that WTF moment, we were told this was for various awards and decs for those at their home station.
> 
> I'd be more troubled by the award if we weren't already doing this in some capacity and have for at least 5 years now. BS or not, the horse is gone so good luck closing the barn door. Trophies for everyone!
> 
> * - Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory, the folks who calibrate instruments and test equipment.



Surprised (not really) that the pendulum has swung again.  I had a Capt who was stationed at Mildenhall during OAF, and was told by AF Personnel Center that didn't count.  We ended up deploying him to Iraq inorder to get him a deployment that counted (mind you, the guy across the hall deployed to England (for oAF) from Barksdale (IIRC) and that counted).

The PMEL guys shouldn't have been using your sortie count, but I am not surprised by them any more.


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## CDG (Jan 8, 2016)

With the USAF, it's not just the drone pilots either.  We were at a bar one night, with some people from other units (Red Horse, admin flight, etc.).  One of our guys was talking about a situation where he had to drop a GBU-31 inside of 200m from himself and the infantry dudes he was with.  Some female Major rolled her eyes and says, "You know, other people deploy too."


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## DA SWO (Jan 8, 2016)

CDG said:


> With the USAF, it's not just the drone pilots either.  We were at a bar one night, with some people from other units (Red Horse, admin flight, etc.).  One of our guys was talking about a situation where he had to drop a GBU-31 inside of 200m from himself and the infantry dudes he was with.  Some female Major rolled her eyes and says, "You know, other people deploy too."


Was she hot?
Let me guess, admin or intel?


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## pardus (Jan 9, 2016)

CDG said:


> With the USAF, it's not just the drone pilots either.  We were at a bar one night, with some people from other units (Red Horse, admin flight, etc.).  One of our guys was talking about a situation where he had to drop a GBU-31 inside of 200m from himself and the infantry dudes he was with.  Some female Major rolled her eyes and says, "You know, other people deploy too."



Yes bitchface, they do...


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## CDG (Jan 9, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Was she hot?
> Let me guess, admin or intel?



Lol.  Admin.


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## Brill (Jan 9, 2016)

CDG said:


> With the USAF, it's not just the drone pilots either.  We were at a bar one night, with some people from other units (Red Horse, admin flight, etc.).  One of our guys was talking about a situation where he had to drop a GBU-31 inside of 200m from himself and the infantry dudes he was with.  Some female Major rolled her eyes and says, "You know, other people deploy too."



My signature block at work includes:

"There is a significant difference deploying to a combat zone and being in close quarters combat."

Holy smokes it pisses off the civvies who talk mad shit about OIF and OEF...There I was, Afghanistan on Salsa Night at the Clamshell with my Glock in a drop leg...


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## AWP (Jan 9, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> The PMEL guys shouldn't have been using your sortie count, but I am not surprised by them any more.



Everyone in Comm uses the sortie count as will Red Horse/ CE if they are doing airfield repair/ upgrades. That is THE metric to have on your eval(s) in the self-esteem challenged comm world.



lindy said:


> Holy smokes it pisses off the civvies who talk mad shit about OIF and OEF...There I was, Afghanistan on Salsa Night at the Clamshell with my Glock in a drop leg...



At least my war stories involve the COD server crashing.

#Betterthansalsanight


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## Grunt (Jan 9, 2016)

I'm still trying to find out exactly where they have to "embrace the suck" whether they deploy or not. 

Oh well, maybe it's just me and I'm wrong!


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## Gunz (Jan 11, 2016)

lindy said:


> My signature block at work includes:
> 
> "There is a significant difference deploying to a combat zone and being in close quarters combat."
> 
> Holy smokes it pisses off the civvies who talk mad shit about OIF and OEF...There I was, Afghanistan on Salsa Night at the Clamshell with my Glock in a drop leg...


 

Can't remember the exact percentage but something like 10%  to 15% of the men who served in Vietnam were actually engaged in the day-to-day trigger-pulling. I suspect it's still the same. For every guy on the sharp edge there are 8 or 9 others in support of him. And yet....everybody's a "hero" and a "warrior" now. :wall:


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## Marauder06 (Jan 21, 2016)

JSOC is pushing these guys so hard, now the drones themselves are committing suicide.



> This latest tragedy comes on the heels of recent reports published in the Washington Postwhich note “more Air Force drones are crashing than ever,” yet offering no explanation as to why.  Are these crashes merely “mysterious” incidents, or is something more sinister at play?  Might the drones, driven by the relentless demands of the secretive Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), be killing themselves?



Washington Post article
original ShadowBlog article


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## 8654Maine (Jan 21, 2016)

Which drones are getting PTSD?


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## Totentanz (Jan 21, 2016)

8654Maine said:


> Which drones are getting PTSD?



The drones who have had their gender identity repressed.  The answer is more classes for the supervisors on why everyone else is superior to white cisgendered males.

For 40 hours.

In powerpoint.

On Saturdays.

In dress uniform.

And each block will be preceded by a minimum of 1 hour of trust falls and team building exercises

Once complete, it will be followed by a similarly-structured block for all Airpeople* on suicide prevention.

(*hat-tip: @Freefalling)


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## 8654Maine (Jan 21, 2016)

Did I mention I'm glad I got out decades ago?


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## DocIllinois (Jan 21, 2016)

8654Maine said:


> Did I mention I'm glad I got out decades ago?



In the process of reinforcing a Company SOP of always keeping your weapon secured, I had my guys give their weapons a name.

My first thought, being in an all male unit, and old school, was to have them give it a girl's name.  My subsequent thought was, "Can't do that; don't wanna go through EO re-indoctrination." 

My Memorandum of Resignation is now on standby.


----------

