# Certs, courses, etc.



## WillBrink (Aug 4, 2008)

Folks. One thing on my list to do, being non Mil/LE is to perhaps do some course work and perhaps a cert or two. It can only help me personally and professionally. I'm a regular IDPA shooter and shoot with a fair number of experienced people with SOF/Tactical LE backgrounds. I'm Probably an intermediate level handgun shooter would be my guess with a solid grounding in the basics.

I know there are schools, and there are schools...I know Black Water offers courses for civis, and then there is Gunsite and Thunder Ranch. I'm sure there are many others.

I good buddy of mine used to work for Jeff Gonzales at Trident Concepts, and by all accounts he's top of the line. He will be in NH (about an hour drive for me) teaching his His Combative Pistol (CP1)November 22-23, 2008. If time and $$$ allows, I hope to make that. I hear it's a hell of a good course. I'm probably qualified for the CP2 course, but the CP1 is the pre rec.


Thoughts, advice, opinions?


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## Trip_Wire (Aug 4, 2008)

If you have the need, time, money and inclination — Go for it!


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## 8'Duece (Aug 4, 2008)

One of the LEO's over at PS took Jeff Gonzalez's carbine and pistol course last year.  High marks and great praise for him and his staff.


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## WillBrink (Aug 4, 2008)

82ndtrooper said:


> One of the LEO's over at PS took Jeff Gonzalez's carbine and pistol course last year.  High marks and great praise for him and his staff.



I have never heard anything but praise for Jeff.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 6, 2008)

What are you looking to be trained and or certified in? What will you use the training/ cert for?

If you’re going for the instructor creds, I would start with the NRA and a local community college LE Academy Inst development courses…

If you’re going for just knowing some different tricks of the trade, I would attend whatever is local first and then just branch out from there. I have yet to have a marksmanship instructor not teach me something or refresh me on something.


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## WillBrink (Aug 7, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> What are you looking to be trained and or certified in? What will you use the training/ cert for?
> 
> If you’re going for the instructor creds, I would start with the NRA and a local community college LE Academy Inst development courses…
> 
> If you’re going for just knowing some different tricks of the trade, I would attend whatever is local first and then just branch out from there. I have yet to have a marksmanship instructor not teach me something or refresh me on something.



Thanx for the comments. ;)


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## zushwa (Aug 9, 2008)

I've trained with Jeff before.  Here is my training history.  Maybe you can gleen something from it.

I was stationed in San Diego and wanted to get better firearms training than my command was providing.  I asked to go to Small Arms an Marksmen Instructor school where I qualified expert on everything.  I took a few classes from Max Joseph at TFTT, a shotgun course with Rob Haught and a Carbine course with Jeff Gonzalez.

Then I moved to Fayetteville.

I started training with LAV and Brian Searcy (of TigerSwan) as well as other instructors from this area.

I couldn't shoot for shit.  The accuracy standards that these guys hold you to is on another level, especially with LAV.  Brian brings more of a dynamic curriculum but accuracy is still HIGHLY stressed.  I continue to train with guys from certain communities with the same mindset.

What I learned was that accuracy needs to be the most important thing and everything else supports that.  If you have a lightning fast drawstroke or reloads and can't hit shit then what the fuck is the point.  I don't regret training with any of the previous instructors, but I wish I would have had a different mindset (and skill level) when I did train with them.

Here's the thing.  NO ONE spends more time, money, and effort in shooting than a local Unit.  If you train with any instructor from that Unit you will have solid fundemantals and accuracy emphasized.  Whether it's LAV, Brain Searcy, Paul Howe, Kyle Lamb or Jim Smith you will see similar points of instruction.

I would recommend training with one of the above instructors first, and then look at other instructors, especially if the course is something like team tactics or CQB.  Believe me, the gentlemen shooting around you will appreciate it!!

I'm not saying this in a "talking shit" manner, but you're probably not as good as you think.  It's all relative.   

Later,

Josh


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## WillBrink (Aug 9, 2008)

zushwa said:


> I'm not saying this in a "talking shit" manner, but you're probably not as good as you think.  It's all relative.
> 
> Later,
> 
> Josh



Thanx for the write up Josh. The course with Jeff I was planning to take is his His Combative Pistol (CP1), which is his basic combat handgun course. I would consider myself an intermediate level shooter with solid basics, and I think that's in line with the opinion of the much higher level shooters I know and learn from. Beyond that, I will take it as it comes.


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## WillBrink (Aug 9, 2008)

82ndtrooper said:


> One of the LEO's over at PS took Jeff Gonzalez's carbine and pistol course last year.  High marks and great praise for him and his staff.



Good to know.:)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 10, 2008)

WillBrink said:


> I would consider myself an intermediate level shooter with solid basics, and I think that's in line with the opinion of the much higher level shooters I know and learn from. Beyond that, I will take it as it comes.



*This is a good way to test your self:*

Normal 9 inch paper plate, posted up at 50 yards. 

Standing slow fire with pistol (no support) 10 shots in 10 minutes. Slow and easy taking your time and applying all your fundamental knowledge/ skill.

Untrained shooter may hit the plate with 3 or 4 rounds but will be off the plate a lot.

Basic shooter should hold all shots on the paper plate.

Advanced shooter should hold the grouping ability of the gun (2 to 5 inch groups) depending on ammo and pistol used.

I do not believe in the intermediate shooter stuff, you either are untrained (just bought a gun and ammo and pull the trigger) basic (know the basics and can apply with some skill) or you are advanced (know the fundamental and can apply them consecutively).

However, I totally agree with the point Josh is making. I would not look for a tactical/ practical school, unless you have an ability to shoot slow aimed fire with consistency.

ETA:

The reason you want to use a distance of 50 yards is, close range groups breeds false belief. A lot of people can hold 1 to 1.5 inch group at 10 yards, however they can’t hit crap at 50 yards. 50 yards is normally the testing point of true fundamentals (natural point of aim, accepting the wobble, focusing on the sights, apply pressure to the trigger, following through on recoil/ trigger, KNOWING WHERE THE SHOT BROKE!)


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## WillBrink (Aug 10, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> *
> 
> The reason you want to use a distance of 50 yards is, close range groups breeds false belief. A lot of people can hold 1 to 1.5 inch group at 10 yards, however they can’t hit crap at 50 yards. 50 yards is normally the testing point of true fundamentals (natural point of aim, accepting the wobble, focusing on the sights, apply pressure to the trigger, following through on recoil/ trigger, KNOWING WHERE THE SHOT BROKE!)*


*

I will try the above, but....JAB, the above confuses me a bit in terms of testing/assessing a shooters tactical/combat skills. How does shooting slow fire at 150ft reflect that skill set? I'm asking here, not debating per se, so take the question as a genuine question.

For example, on the basics, my stance, presentation, draw, grip, are solid. I can be a little slow on getting my initial site picture, but am solid after that. My trigger skills are good, but need to be better as i still slap the trigger at times. I continue to wok on that.

I can shoot on the move, shoot from cover, use cover, shoot in tactical priority or tactical sequence, slice the pie, hit a moving target (swingers, poppers, etc) while moving from cover to cover, do tactical reloads with retention or without, clear a jam while doing any of the above, etc, etc. , normally from typical self defense distances, via the targets and scoring system developed by Larry Vickers (if competing in IDPA) and continued in that vein. I'm adequate with my strong hand shooting, not great with weak hand shooting, but getting better...

Do I do the above perfect every time? Of course not, but I do it with regularity due to practice. 

In a group of shooters doing the above (for example IDPA, or working with pals on SWAT teams, etc) I will generally be middle of the pack, and rank middle of the pack in IDPA and such.

When I shoot with high level experienced combat shooters, they are better then I am. When I shoot with others, I am superior to them, and so on.

Thus, my assessment was an intermediate level shooter with good basics, who needs to continue to improve my tactical skills.

How does a slow fire at 150ft with handgun at 9" plate have greater applicability to a shooters tactical/combat skills than what I am doing in the above?*


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## Farang (Aug 10, 2008)

Pat McNamara,Kyle lamb,Larry Vickers,Paul Howe,Brian Searcy,Clint Smith and Rock Brown cant go wrong with any of these instructors.....and thats just off the top of my head!


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## WillBrink (Aug 10, 2008)

Farang said:


> Pat McNamara,Kyle lamb,Larry Vickers,Paul Howe,Brian Searcy,Clint Smith and Rock Brown cant go wrong with any of these instructors.....and thats just off the top of my head!



Thanx. I have every intent of following up with one of the above in the future.


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## Sunny (Aug 11, 2008)

jeff g puts on a great course of instruction.

FBI stat over 90% of gun fights happen at 7 yards or less. so what good is a slow fire from 50 yard. learn to employ your tool in the matter you intend to use it. think about your pistol as the tool it is. did your father make you learn how to drive a nail with perfect percision? or did he give you a hammer and guide you through a natural progression of comfort to learn to simply drive a nail.  give you got the cash go for the class. jeff does have a great book out if you are light on funds.


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## WillBrink (Aug 11, 2008)

Sunny said:


> jeff g puts on a great course of instruction.
> 
> FBI stat over 90% of gun fights happen at 7 yards or less. so what good is a slow fire from 50 yard. learn to employ your tool in the matter you intend to use it.



I agree, but in JAB's defense, I think he means it as an assessment tool vs. a mode or training per se. It can expose the many small mistakes made, and give some assessment of the shooters general skills with issues of site picture, grip, trigger control, and such. He will correct me if wrong I am sure - as I am not the expert here - but that was my impression at least.

I do shoot at 25 yards at a 5" target slow fire (which should be visually about the same as 50 yards at 9" target) and can keep most rnds on target*, but the groups are not small, that's for sure. Keep a 2" group on a 5" inch target at 25 yards using non match grade gun with combat sites? Not this guy....

* = using a commander or government 1911.


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## zushwa (Aug 11, 2008)

I'm in the middle on this.  I think 50 yards is damn far for a 9 inch circle.  25 yard bulls will show you any fleas you have.

I also agree that slow fire isn't the only way to test you, but shooting slow fire will reinforce the basics.  Plenty of guys are ninjas at the 10 yard line.  Double that and the wheels come off.

WB, you make reference to your shooting ability compared to others.  I would probably use that as my last comparison.  I would compare my shooting to myself, and how much I'm improving, then I would compare myself to standard drills on a pro-timer, and then to others around me.  Let me break that down a bit for you.

As Dave Harrington would say, there is no goal, just the path.  You're only shooting to prepare yourself so be better than "yourself".  Just like in the gym.  There are monsters that can bench press 350 lbs.  I have NO SHOT at that goal, but I can work to improve my own bench press.  As long as I'm improving then I'm a relatively happy camper.

Second is the pro-timer and some kind of standards.  Doing a drill like an “el pres” shows plenty of things about a shooter.  With a pro timer we can see EXACTLY where we stand in the grand scheme of things as well as diagnose problems in our shooting techniques.  A pro timer is an inanimate object.  It records shots and tells you times, period.  This is a great tool to really see how you're progressing.  Just like our bench press example above.  If you want to progress you need to know where you start and where you want to go, and keep records along the way.

The caveat to the pro timer is that SPEED is never more important than ACCURACY.  There is a balance, but it always leans toward accuracy.  I'm not saying be one of those guys that goes around spouting about sub second draw strokes, but having an idea of how fast you are does build in some inherent confidence.  For me it's how fast I can do something every time, not just the ONE time.

Last are your shooting comrades.  I'm not taking anything away from them, you, or any unit or agency.  They might be great shooters.  What I will say is that my "job" affords me the opportunity to shoot with people from all over the country and every walk of life.  There are only a handful of guys in any one circle, agency, department that are truly good shooters and plenty of guys that look the part and will tell you how good they are.

Unfortunately this is across the board.  LE, big army, SF, etc.  Unless they are in a Tier One or "maybe" Tier Two unit they are probably good compared to the shooters around them, and not in the grand scheme of things.

The good news is that this is getting better and better.  I've seen entire agencies turn things around in a short period of time with a new training officer or hosting a key instructor.  Some of those agencies have been lucky enough to train with some of the previously mentioned instructors.

Just some observations and my own personal experiences.

Josh


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## WillBrink (Aug 11, 2008)

zushwa said:


> I
> 
> The caveat to the pro timer is that SPEED is never more important than ACCURACY.



Thanx for the comments. I'm not sure you were really grasping my comments however as it relates to my shooting. For example, have you shot any IDPA? IDPA scoring was designed by Larry Vickers and doing well depends on both accuracy and speed, and speed minus accuracy gets you no place fast. Scoring is based on accuracy to center mass and head, unless other wise noted within the stage, and timed, and matched/compared to others, so you know (1) objectively how well you are doing and if you are improving and (2) how you compare to others both in your group/ranking/devision. 

It's a fantastic way for any civi, LEO, or mil to both test and improve their tactical/combat shooting if they don't have access to regular training of that nature.

Like all things, it's a tool in the tool box, and has it's pros and cons, but it's a great tool (in my n = 1 personal opinion) and a hell of a lot of fun.

Objectively, based on times and accuracy via IDPA, I rank high Marksman or low Sharp Shooter, which = middle of the pack, thus my comments. 

Hope that clarifies. :)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 11, 2008)

The M9 service pistol (rack grade) with mil ammo will hold 6 to 8 inch groups at 50 yards… I have seen it, taught it, and done it… When you use match ammo and match grade pistols, achieving group sizes under 5 inches is a true test, but is very achievable.

Now as for being able to shoot fast and accurate, if you can’t shoot accurate slow how are you going to do it fast? If you cannot shoot accurately with out moving, using different positions and stress, how will you do it with all of the above? 25 yards is easy, 50 yards is not. That is why 50 yards is my standard, along with the top 10% of competitive pistol shooters… 50 yards will not lie to you and will always keep you humble!

WB, it’s like having someone who can bench press 300lbs. Yeah he is getting it up there, but is he using good form, is he using the right muscle groups? If he is not, you take him back down and train him to do it right.

If you pass the buck and say “its not combat/ tactical/ practical” to be able to group and zero with a pistol at the affective range of the pistol, then there is nothing I can say to help you. It’s simply the difference in being and saying IMO…

How many of you learned on a rifle with a .22?

How many of you learned on a pistol with a .22?

I train with a .22 conversion for my service pistol and match pistols, then I put the big bullets back in. I also dry fire 2 shots per every 1 live round fired, if you are shooting 500 to 1000 rounds a week, you can figure the math. If you bring your ego down and open your mind to learn, you will learn a lot!

The sights and trigger is what makes it happen, not the newest coolest grip, mixed with a new altered stance. Having a cool holster and a 1 sec draw and shoot time is not what keeps you alive; it’s the bullet impacting the target! Adding all the sexy time and cool guy gear is just the plus. If your wanting to be in the top, you have to train like you want to be. The better you are, the better chance you have going against some one who may just be better then you!

Being basic is understanding the basics and applying them with some skill, being advanced is having mastered the basic skill/ fundamentals of marksmanship….

*ETA: I am by no means saying that 9 inch groups at 50yards is the only thing you should be doing, it is simply the starting point. If you can't do that, then you are wasting your time on everything else...*


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## WillBrink (Aug 11, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> If you bring your ego down and open your mind to learn, you will learn a lot!



(1) If that's being directed at me, then either you are not reading my posts well, or I am coming across badly. I will now step away slowly from this thread...

(2) I don't disagree with anything you said, did my best to ask what seemed the appropriate questions to the issue, and made comments that seemed applicable.

I appreciate your taking the time to give me the 411 on the issue. :)


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## 8'Duece (Aug 11, 2008)

I spend alot of time with a Marlin bolt action .22Lr rifle at one hundred meters.  I use a simple 3x-9x33 Simmons scope.  Once upon a time a well known P100 shooter told to me to spend as much time with the .22Lr as I would with a 5.56 or .308+  He is right !!!  All of my mistakes/fleas with the .22Lr will show themseves in the .22Lr caliber. 

Once my .22Lr hits are accurate, then applying the same techniques to the larger calibers is basically the same. Only difference ? Recoil !!!!


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## zushwa (Aug 11, 2008)

IDPA has it's issues but yes, at least you're shooting to some standard instead of "I'm ok compared to the guys I shoot with".  You clarified everything I was wondering about.

Josh


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## Trip_Wire (Aug 11, 2008)

82ndtrooper said:


> I spend alot of time with a Marlin bolt action .22Lr rifle at one hundred meters.  I use a simple 3x-9x33 Simmons scope.  Once upon a time a well known P100 shooter told to me to spend as much time with the .22Lr as I would with a 5.56 or .308+  He is right !!!  All of my mistakes/fleas with the .22Lr will show themseves in the .22Lr caliber.
> 
> Once my .22Lr hits are accurate, then applying the same techniques to the larger calibers is basically the same. Only difference ? Recoil !!!!



I have also used a high class Austrian pellet rifle, with scope to sharpen my rifle skills. I helped me a lot. It was also a lot of fun, shooting the occasional Crow or Rat. The best part it doesn't make any noise compared to a .22. In a city setting firearms noise can be a problem. Ammo costs are very minor as well.

J.A.B. mentioned the use of the conversion kit for his 9MM pistol. I too did this for my Govt. model .45 and saved a lot 0f $$$ in ammo costs. It is a very smart move. :2c:


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## Rabid Badger (Aug 11, 2008)

WillBrink said:


> (1) If that's being directed at me, then either you are not reading my posts well, or I am coming across badly. I will now step away slowly from this thread...
> 
> (2) I don't disagree with anything you said, did my best to ask what seemed the appropriate questions to the issue, and made comments that seemed applicable.
> 
> I appreciate your taking the time to give me the 411 on the issue. :)



WB, you're doin now what most of us wish we were doin, gym, range, gym, range, and getn paid for all of it........*ALONG WITH *being your own boss.

JAB's quote was basically directed at himself, the way I read it. 

Kinda like sayin 'I learned my lesson', so to speak....in a humbling sorta way... ;)

One point that's not being addressed is the pro-timer as a stress inducer, gunshot simulator. I hated hearing the jolt of eeeeennnnnggght in my ear. Immediate heart rate jump, stress through the roof, get to kakkin right now.

sunny, if the tool you have *in your hand *is the only tool you have *on hand* and the target is at 50yds, you better be damn good with that *'tool'*....... :uhh: FFT

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, *FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT FRONT SIGHT*.

Correct with the *speed AND accuracy *post.....*speed without accuracy is a waste of time


and money.*....neither of which I have enough of.


:2c:


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## Farang (Aug 11, 2008)

"Speed is Fine,accuracy is final"!!..... Larry Vickers
"The speed will be there when the shit hits the fan"!!.....Rock Brown


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## WillBrink (Aug 11, 2008)

razor_baghdad said:


> WB, you're doin now what most of us wish we were doin, gym, range, gym, range, and getn paid for all of it........*ALONG WITH *being your own boss.



And I have to hear that "eeeeennnnnggght in my ear" almost every weekend during IDPA season...:)


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## Rabid Badger (Aug 11, 2008)

Farang said:


> "Speed is Fine,accuracy is final"!!..... Larry Vickers
> "The speed will be there when the shit hits the fan"!!.....Rock Brown



Money bro.....'in the bottle' so to speak!! :);)


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 12, 2008)

WB, in no way shape or form am I saying you have an ego issue at all... That is the first thing I tell anyone who comes to a class I teach (mil or civ) and it's the number one killer of learning! It took me several $$$$ and a lot of being frustrated as a young kid/ adult, before I finely pulled it together. Its kind of my personal catch line...

The point I am making witch I sure you understand now, is that you would waste your hard earned $$$$ going to these combat courses, if you are not fully prepared and at a level to receive and retain the training. Test your self on the 50 yards stuff, see how you do. If you can not keep at least a 9inch group at 50 yards. Go back refresh on the basic fundamentals, humble your self and spend some self training time to advance your self. Then start rebuilding the speed and stress...

If you need any courses of fire, shooting drills, or just advice on how to diagnose/ correct a problem to help you along, I am more then happy to post them here or email them to you!

J...


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## WillBrink (Aug 12, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> WB, in no way shape or form am I saying you have an ego issue at all... That is the first thing I tell anyone who comes to a class I teach (mil or civ) and it's the number one killer of learning! It took me several $$$$ and a lot of being frustrated as a young kid/ adult, before I finely pulled it together. Its kind of my personal catch line...
> 
> The point I am making witch I sure you understand now, is that you would waste your hard earned $$$$ going to these combat courses, if you are not fully prepared and at a level to receive and retain the training. Test your self on the 50 yards stuff, see how you do. If you can not keep at least a 9inch group at 50 yards. Go back refresh on the basic fundamentals, humble your self and spend some self training time to advance your self. Then start rebuilding the speed and stress...
> 
> ...



Thanx for the clarifications. Much appreciated. At my range right now, best I can do handgun is 25 yards, so I use a 5 " plate. The 50 yard and on, are rifle only. PITA really. I will probably join a better range in the near future.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 12, 2008)

Things to know/ practice before embarking on a combat course:

*Equipment:*

Test all your equipment before taking any paid for training! Put the cool guy gear on and roll around in the dirt, check for workability in all position (standing, kneeling, prone, supine), check to make sure you can perform a mag change in all positions. check to ensure all your equipment will with stand rolling around and excessive wear.

*Magazine changes:*

Practice magazine changes tactical and emergency 20 time daily for at least 2 weeks prior to attending a course. Practice these from all position. One handed mag changes (think muzzle discipline) and practice as many different ways to change magazines one handed, using weak and strong hand. Do not go for time, just doing it the same way every time.

*Drawing from the holster:*

Tape a piece of white paper on a wall, point the (unloaded) pistol at the paper. You want your muzzle to be no more then 5 inches away from the paper at full presentation. Holster and practice drawing with a  4 point pistol draw, ever time you get the pistol to half lock out focus on the sights as you go to full lock out. Do this at least 20 times a day for 2 weeks prior to training. Do not go for time, just doing it the same way every time.

**Note** Your sights should already be aligned when you are at full lock out. The white paper shows if they are or not.

*Marksmanship:*

1.Dry fire at the white paper 1 to 2 time per every live round fired, make sure your muzzle is just far enough away so that it is not touching the wall. Practice pulling the trigger and holding it, cock or rack the pistol with non firing hand (while holding trigger) release and listen for the click. Never divorce your finger from the trigger until you have completed the firing. Adjust grip and trigger control, so that sights do not move when hammer falls...

2.Bulls-eye at 25 yards slow fire 5 live and 2 dummy per mag (mix the dummies in) for 100 rounds, think every round is a dummy. Mentally tell your self that the gun is not going to go off every time. If you still notice anticipation, dry fire 5 times prior to ejecting the dummy and firing again.

3.B27 type target at 25 yards, fire 5 live and 2 dummy per mag for 100 rounds, practice tap rack bang every time you hit the dummy (unless you anticipate recoil, then dry fire). Fire 2 magazines from standing, kneeling, prone and supine. (all groups under 6 inch)!

4.B27 type target at 15 yards 3 by 5 index card center chest, and 3 by 5 index card center head, fire 2 shots (controlled pair, no double taps) 2 to the chest 1 to the head and then in reverse, 2 to head 1 to the chest. Fire at least 50 rounds and add magazine changes and stoppages.

5.4 B27 type targets (same thing on each with index cards) at 15 yards, space targets out 12 inches apart. Fire 2 to the chest 1 to the head on target 1 and 2, reload and fire the same on targets 3 and 4. then fire 1 chest shot on each target (1,2,3,4,) come back to target 1 and do 2 to the chest 1 to head. Next go 1 chest shot on (1,2,3,4) come back to target 2 and 2 chest 1 head. Continue this one every target for at least 100 rounds. All shots on the index cards...

**Note** on all courses of fire use no time limits, just simply enforce accuracy. Speed up and slow down as needed to maintain accuracy.

*Mental:*

Maintain a marksmanship goal for each range day, push out everything that is not just simple basics (align the sights and control the trigger). If you have a bad shot or a few bad shots, ignore them. Only focus on what you did to archive the good shots... Remember to maintain on only basic skills, do not test or try an new trick. Just plain and simple basics.

When attending training, take anything and everything you have learned in the past (outside of basics) and put them out of your head. Come in to the course with a clear humble mind, that all you know are the basics. Allow the instructor to coach you through his training. Remember you are paying him for what he knows and provides in that particular course, nothing else.

Take written notes on things you find that improve your speed and accuracy. Bring a camera or video camera, and record as much of your performance as possible. Use it as a training refresher.

**Note** confirm that the trainer does not mind a video camera or camera during the course.


These are just things that I found problems with in the past or helped prepare me for a course I was taking. Things I have noticed from training others and just BTDT... 

I hope this helps!:);)


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## WillBrink (Feb 14, 2009)

Not sure if I ever put this up, but on a search, could not find it. To reserect the thread:  I took Jeff Gonzales's of Tricon Concepts* CP-1 pistol course this fall as mentioned, while he's in the area at Sig. The course is 8am to 5pm (with a very short break for lunch) over two days and approx 1,500 rnds. This was a great all around foundational combat handgun course that pushes your equipment and skill hard. Jeff is a great teacher and no BS individual, and I was happy I didn't embarrass myself at his course.

At around 1000rnds, the slide release lever on my 1911 broke, so it would not lock back when it was empty. Had to run it that way 'til the break, then went to a back up (gotta have a backup for such courses!) and was GTG from there.

I have heard complaints about ACT-mags and their crappy base plates. I never had any issues with them, but they were being dropped on dirt at the IDPA matches I competed in vs concrete. I had 3 ACT mags hit the concrete floor during this course, and the base plates completely shattered with springs flying, etc.

Only got my ass chewed out once, which is a record for me...

Course was an A+ for me, and I suspect everyone who attended, mostly LEO it seemed. My hands are sore as shi$, one gun is broke, down 3 mags, my back hurts, and it was all worth it.

If Jeff comes to your area, or within range (2 guys drove 7 hours up from Jersey) take a course with Jeff, you won't be sorry.


* = www.tridentconcepts.com

I hope to take future courses with Jeff, Larry Vickers, Black Water, and other locals. Would enjoy hearing others experiences and opinions of the courses they have taken, etc.


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