# long tan day



## QC (Aug 17, 2008)

Today marks a significant day for the Australian Army in Vietnam. 

http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/vietnam/longtan.html


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## pardus (Aug 17, 2008)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ4txHAK6g4"]YouTube - The Battle of Long Tan--Part 1[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXsTirmxHGw"]YouTube - The Battle of Long Tan Part 2[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5wb9ni77jI"]YouTube - The Battle of Long Tan Part 3[/ame]


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## pardus (Feb 1, 2009)

bump


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## digrar (Feb 1, 2009)

Been a while since I've seen that, cheers.
 The South Viet Nam Government was all set to give the boys medals, Our government came in at the last minute and said no go, that's when the dolls, cigarette and cigar boxes were bought out. The whole medal thing was only resolved last year and even then they didn't really get it right.


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## pardus (Feb 1, 2009)

I seen a cartoon about medals given in Vietnam based on facts IIRC, it had Aussies lining up and the Q guy chipping a tine piece of a medal for each guy and the Americans who had 3-4 boxes full of medals with a sign saying take a handful! lol

The stats given were (something like) every Yank got 3-4 medals and an Aussie averaged 0.003 medals per man.  ;)

I remember back home seeing someone with one ribbon thinking :interesting, wonder what that is for, but useually working it out due to age etc... but seeing a guy with two ribbons, well that was special.
Looking at Americans, I'm just lost lol


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## digrar (Feb 1, 2009)

If you get hurt, you get a scar and if you do your job well you continue to get paid. We recently lashed out and issued a 4 year service medal, or the I showed up every day and ate my lunch medal. At a cost of about $100 to get it mounted many would have preferred not to have got it at all.


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## pardus (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah that's pretty gay...

Welcome to the feel good society :doh:


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## AWP (Feb 1, 2009)

At the risk of hijacking an ANZAC thread. The American awards system wasn't bad until WWII. Things started going downhill but it wasn't terrible. By Vietnam however it was a free-for-all. Near as I can tell, the only Americans involved with Long Tan were in the artillery or in the AF dropping bombs, hardly positions as exposed as those with D Coy.

Anymore, with the exception of the top two awards, if I can't place the medal into context then I don't put much stock in them.

Surviving a battle like Long Tan though, and to get a freaking DOLL out if it, is insulting.


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## QC (Feb 1, 2009)

There where Americans there but they were on the other side of the perimeter and didn't fire a shot. Lex MacAulay (I think) wrote a definitive account based on interviews with the guys. Incidentally, to my knowledge no-one has written too much on Firebase Coral. Dig, do you know of any?


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## digrar (Feb 1, 2009)

Lex wrote a book on Coral Balmoral too. The Battle of Coral by Lex McAulay published by Arrow Australia (same mob as the other book on long tan) ISBN0091690919

Lex has the Fire mission log book as an apendix in the Battle of Long Tan and the Yank 155mm battery fired 3 missions totaling 155 rounds, he also goes on to mention that 2639 of 105 fired as well and that according to those there, another 1000 rounds were fired over and above what was written in the log.


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## pardus (Feb 1, 2009)

digrar said:


> Lex wrote a book on Coral Balmoral too. The Battle of Coral by Lex McAulay published by Arrow Australia (same mob as the other book on long tan) ISBN0091690919
> .



It's a bloody good read too.:2c:


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## QC (Feb 1, 2009)

digrar said:


> Lex wrote a book on Coral Balmoral too. The Battle of Coral by Lex McAulay published by Arrow Australia (same mob as the other book on long tan) ISBN0091690919
> 
> Lex has the Fire mission log book as an apendix in the Battle of Long Tan and the Yank 155mm battery fired 3 missions totaling 155 rounds, he also goes on to mention that 2639 of 105 fired as well and that according to those there, another 1000 rounds were fired over and above what was written in the log.



No time to write firing anti personnel rounds over open sites.


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## QC (Feb 2, 2009)

:doh: As you can see, I've mixed the two. I must have CRAFT disease...(can't remember a f***in' thing)


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## SpitfireV (Feb 4, 2009)

A few months ago I noticed an Air New Zealand pilot with a bunch of ribbons on his jacket. This being particularly unusual I went up and politely asked them what they were for (poor choice of words really). "Oh, bravery and service" he says. I asked him where he served and he points them out "oh, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaya and some other shitholes" (or words or that effect). Turns out he was an RNZAF pilot but I didn't get a chance to ask him what he flew. 

This guy had seriously the biggest amount of ribbons I have _ever_ seen- there must have been twelve or so, which is a lot for the NZDF I think. In comparison my Comptroller, who has done Timor and probably some other places with the Group has maybe five.


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## pardus (Feb 4, 2009)

When I was in, one medal was eye catching, two was uncommon.


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## digrar (Feb 4, 2009)

We always had a few blokes floating around with a couple, by the time I got out 4 or 5 wasn't uncommon, now it's closer to the norm.

Then there were blokes like Keith Payne VC...


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## CBTech (Feb 8, 2009)

What the fuck's a medal do for ya anyway? I hate that shit. 

I never put much stock in ribbons and medals. After standing at attention for about the third time when they were giving some asshole a Navy and Marine Corps Achievment Medal for doing his job I said fuck all, don't care. 
What's funny is Good Conduct Medals. More like Didn't Get Caught Medal. When I see a Purple Heart or Silver Star I perk up.
As for the Long Tan boys, it is a shame because it is situations like that which are truelly deserving of medals.


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## AWP (Feb 8, 2009)

CBTech said:


> What the fuck's a medal do for ya anyway? I hate that shit.



I can't speak for the other services, but in the Army they provide promotion points. I've seen SOF support soldiers, Active and Guard, passed over for a promotion because their unit didn't play the "Here's an ARCOM for doing your job" game.

Eh, we had a presidnet with a bogus Silver Star, so why expect Joe Snuffy to have any integrity?


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## CBTech (Feb 8, 2009)

I know. Same with the Navy, some medals carry points for advancement. It's just the whole "game" that gets me. I don't think Mikey jumped on a grenade for the MoH.


Sorry for de-railing the Long Tan anniversary thread.


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## pardus (Feb 8, 2009)

Freefalling said:


> Eh, we had a presidnet with a bogus Silver Star, so why expect Joe Snuffy to have any integrity?



Who?


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## digrar (Feb 8, 2009)

Lyndon B. Johnson


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## pardus (Feb 8, 2009)

digrar said:


> Lyndon B. Johnson



Sounds like a legit award to me... :uhh:


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## AWP (Feb 8, 2009)

pardus762 said:


> Who?



Lyndon Johnson. He was an observer on a B-26 sent to bomb a target in New Guinea. His a/c developed generator trouble and turned back without seeing combat. The a/c he was originally supposed to be on was shot down with no survivors. Johnson saw no combat on his one mission and has his SS awarded a mere 9 *days* after the mission.

http://www.b-26marauderarchive.org/ms/MS1709/MS1709.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-7.htm



> "For gallantry in action in the vicinity of Port Moresby and Salamaua, New Guinea on June 9, 1942. While on a mission of obtaining information in the Southwest Pacific area, Lieutenant Commander Johnson, in order to obtain personal knowledge of combat conditions, volunteered as an observer on a hazardous aerial combat mission over hostile positions in New Guinea. As our planes neared the target area they were intercepted by eight hostile fighters. When, at this time, the plane in which Lieutenant Commander Johnson was an observer, developed mechanical trouble and was forced to turn back alone, presenting a favorable target to the enemy fighters, he evidenced marked coolness in spite of the hazards involved. His gallant action enabled him to obtain and return with valuable information."



It should also be noted that he was a representative from TX who sat on the Naval Affairs Committee. After Dec. 7, Johnson was made a LCDR (O-4) in the Navy Reserves, despite zero military experience. LBJ was juiced in politically from the start.

The first link above is pretty damning. It's also not the first time Martin Caidin (who helped perpetuate the LBJ myth) fabricated details to craft a story.


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## CBTech (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't know if it is in any of the links before but I remembered reading this once so I went and looked it up:

Johnson's own biographer said this, 
 "The most you can say about Lyndon Johnson and his Silver Star is that it is surely one of the most undeserved Silver Stars in history, because if you accept everything that he said, he was still in action for no more than 13 minutes and only as an observer. Men who flew many missions, brave men, never got a Silver Star."


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## Mac_NZ (Feb 8, 2009)

I worked a wee bit with 5/7 in Robo Bks and was over there for the anniversary of Log Tan a few years back, had a few beverages and talked to an old bloke that had something to do with it at the RSL later.  Hell of a scrap.


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## digrar (Feb 9, 2009)

It's a reasonable day everywhere because it is also Viet Nam Veterans day. But at 6RAR it's something special. The Battalion still gets a fair few of the boys attending and the boozer is always an interesting place after the church service or parade.


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