# Prior service trying to go SF



## Sapper-doc (May 24, 2015)

If this is a bit long I apologize.

I've been out a few years due to personal family issues and want back in in the worst way.  The goal my first time around was to go SF, but kind of got stuck in Korea for the full term of my initial contract which was 3 years and extended for an additional 6 months.  Went to 2ID initially and had a blast.  Got my EFMB tons of field problems and gunneries, ranges, etc.  Got out because I hated the REMF unit I got assigned after my unit 2nd ENG BAT, 2ID got disbanded that and family health issues.  I hate knocking units because I feel you make the best of your own situation, but it truly was atrocious.  Got called back in via IRR and attached to a MD NG unit.  They were some good people, but the NG is its own animal and kind of wacky if you ask me. Got back out after a tour in Iraq. I've kicked around in civilian life and have had some successes, but it just ain't the same.  I want to be a part of a unit or team where I matter and am tested.

My father, (Army Maj. Retired, Vietnam Vet) had a saying, "You don't turn raw iron into a sword by being nice to it. You subject to fire and beat the hell out of it."  I'm not sure if he borrowed that, but I like it.  That's what I am looking for.  I know that might come off as a bit arrogant, but it's the best way I can think of to describe my desire.

So here's the deal.  I'm 32, every resource I can find says that the cutoff for SFAS is 30.  As well, I see that to come back in as 18X the age limitation is 30 also.  Am I not looking in the correct spot, or is that just how it is?  Is a waiver available?

I've tried talking to the local recruiter and we who have been in all know we're just a number to them.  I'm not getting much help.  None of them in the local office seem to know much about getting in to SF unless your completely new to the Army.  They've told me just come back in and drop a 4187.  While that has some merit, to me it seems like wishful thinking.

I also found this link: http://m.goarmy.com/careers-and-job...tive-duty/prior-service-business-rules.m.html 

If I am reading this correctly it says the Army is taking back Prior Service medics (68w), but only back into their original PMOS.  It also does mention 18X.  It doesn't say anything about going from PS medic into SF or how to do it. Unless, I am just not reading it or understanding it correctly.  If SF is completely off the table for me, I wouldn't mind trying an option 40 for Rangers either.

As far as physical conditioning, I've kept up with myself for the most part going to the gym about 3-4 days a week.  Tested myself on a 45lb 12 mile ruck 2 days ago completed in 2hrs. 42 min.  I am starting a training regimen tomorrow that's more military oriented rucks, runs, pull-ups, push-ups etc. to kick my own ass back in to military form.  I've gotten a little weak being stationed at Ft. Livingroom.

My goal and dream would be to be an 18D as I loved being a medic.

Please help guide me in the right direction and thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.


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## TLDR20 (May 24, 2015)

Look at the guard. I don't think there is an age limit of 30 for SFAS, if there is there is also a waiver for everything. Do some more research, contact the SF recruiters directly.


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## Viper1 (May 24, 2015)

Plenty of Soldiers, enlisted and officer, were over 30 at SFAS and the Q-course when I went through.  I agree with @TLDR20, contact the SF recruiter directly.  A waiver may be easy or difficult to obtain but if this is what you want, you'll find a way to obtain one. Good luck.


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## Sapper-doc (May 24, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Look at the guard. I don't think there is an age limit of 30 for SFAS, if there is there is also a waiver for everything. Do some more research, contact the SF recruiters directly.


Ok and thanks for the response.  I tried getting in touch with a SF recruiter via the link on goarmy.com site, but all they could do is send me a pamphlet on SF.  They said there aren't any recruiters at that station that I could speak to, just receptionist that send out info.  Anyone know of any links sites etc.?  If not I'll keep digging.


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## Totentanz (May 24, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> Ok and thanks for the response.  I tried getting in touch with a SF recruiter via the link on goarmy.com site, but all they could do is send me a pamphlet on SF.  They said there aren't any recruiters at that station that I could speak to, just receptionist that send out info.  Anyone know of any links sites etc.?  If not I'll keep digging.



I'd start here: http://www.sorbrecruiting.com/


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## Sapper-doc (May 24, 2015)

Totentanz said:


> I'd start here: http://www.sorbrecruiting.com/


Thanks, found their number on there.  Much appreciated.


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## BloodStripe (May 24, 2015)

Wasn't SurgicalCric in his mid 30's (I think I read 35) when he went to SFAS?


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## AWP (May 24, 2015)

NavyBuyer said:


> Wasn't SurgicalCric in his mid 30's (I tthink I read 35) when he went to SFAS?



I think so. My old company commander was 38 when he went. I think we have a member or two who went in their 30's as well, and this was on AD, so the age issue is somewhat overblown in SF. The Guard may have more leeway than AD, but even AD seems to be open to ages where other SOF entities are not.


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## Sapper-doc (May 24, 2015)

I found the link where I was getting 30 year age cap from.  It's off the goarmy.com page regarding SF.  If it's incorrect, phew and thanks for clearing that up.  I thought I missed my chance.  

http://m.goarmy.com/special-forces/qualifications-and-benefits.m.html

It may need to be corrected to reflect accuracy.  Either way, I'll be contacting SORB on Tuesday.  

Thanks guys.


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## TLDR20 (May 24, 2015)

There may be an age requirement for 18X, but you are prior service, so things are more than likely to be different.


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## x SF med (May 25, 2015)

NavyBuyer said:


> Wasn't SurgicalCric in his mid 30's (I think I read 35) when he went to SFAS?



32 when he went to SFAS/started the course... 35 when he graduated.


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## Sapper-doc (May 26, 2015)

FYI - 

Just got off the phone with SORB about prior service 18X.  Thought I would post what they said here in case anyone else needs the info.  

Prior service can come back in as 18X, it's just a matter as to whether the Army is actively recruiting for it or not.  Age limits are not an issue as far as SFAS is concerned just remaining time in service and rank / grade.  Said something about how prior service time counts against your age.  Not sure exactly how that works, but they said I would be good at 32 with almost 5 years service.  But, if it isn't actively available when I go in to MEPS, that I can either hold out for it, or try and go into a feeder MOS like 11X or 13 series etc. That when My boots are on ground at the unit drop a packet with them asap.

He also said, that I have to go through the local recruitment office regardless.  That he can't touch me unless I'm already in.  Makes sense.  However, he did say that if I keep running in to issues with the regular recruiters to ask for the station commander and if still hitting a road block give them a call.

Spoke to him a bit about requirements.  My issue might be the color vision, but I know I've passed one of the three tests before so I should be good.  If you have a similar issue there are forums on this site about it just search it.  

Thanks for the help guys and the links I'll keep trucking.  I hope to see you on the other side.  I'll post updates to my status if there are any pertinent.


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## AWP (May 26, 2015)

Holy shit.

Someone who:
A) Listened
B) Followed-up and didn't expect us to hand them a solution
C) Returned to pass along some info

I'm kind of at a loss. New users just don't behave like this...


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## Brill (May 26, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> Someone who:
> A) Listened
> ...



Gotta be a MI guy.


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## Sapper-doc (May 26, 2015)

Haha!!

Nah, not MI.  Just a prior Medic who's eager and knows when he's given a block of instruction even if it's simply, "go find out for yourself."

Update:  Not sure if it's because I'm prior service or they're just really busy when I've been calling.  Either way, call a few different recruiting stations until you find an NCO that's willing to work with you.  I finally did after calling 4 different local offices.  Meeting with him tomorrow to discuss 18X.


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## compforce (Jun 1, 2015)

> Said something about how prior service time counts against your age. Not sure exactly how that works, but they said I would be good at 32 with almost 5 years service.



Prior service time is taken OFF of your age.  So 32 with 5 years makes you 27 for recruiting purposes.


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## 18echo (Jun 2, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> Update:  Not sure if it's because I'm prior service or they're just really busy when I've been calling.  Either way, call a few different recruiting stations until you find an NCO that's willing to work with you.  I finally did after calling 4 different local offices.  Meeting with him tomorrow to discuss 18X.


That's the recruiting game in every component. That's the way it was in 93, and that's the way it is today.
If you  want to initiate a contract, you need to walk in.


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## Sapper-doc (Jun 3, 2015)

Ok, so I spent a couple of hours at the recruiter's office yesterday.  Apparently, the age cap for prior service and new recruits is the same, 30.  Also, prior service time doesn't count against your age for 18X.  We called higher and a few different departments and that's a hard rule for 18X.  That doesn't mean SFAS has an age cap just the 18X program.  So, if you're already in and trying to go to SFAS while over 30 it shouldn't be an issue.  Also, they won't accept an age waiver for 18X.  We're going to still put the packet together (go to MEPS, do physical, DLAB, etc), and send it in and ask for an exception to policy.  

The chance seems slim, but going to try any way.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.


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## 18echo (Jun 3, 2015)

AR 614–200; it's not a policy, it's a reg.
There is no such thing as an exception to regulation.
Be prepared to contract for something else, and contact your nearest SORB recruiter as soon as you sign in to your first duty station.


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## Sapper-doc (Jun 4, 2015)

Roger that.

What are some good feeder MOS' that I should keep my eye out for as a plan B?


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## x SF med (Jun 4, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> Roger that.
> 
> What are some good feeder MOS' that I should keep my eye out for as a plan B?



um...  68W is a good one, as is 11B....  MOS is less of an issue than solid character, good PT, maturity, and leadership.  You've already got the MOS of 68W, leverage it, or your engineer training if you have that.


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## Sapper-doc (Jun 4, 2015)

x SF med said:


> um...  68W is a good one, as is 11B....  MOS is less of an issue than solid character, good PT, maturity, and leadership.  You've already got the MOS of 68W, leverage it, or your engineer training if you have that.


Problem is I can only come back in as a 68W10 if I am already airborne qualified as per prior service business rules.  So I would have to re-class.  What I am finding out is that there are just a lot of restrictions governing getting in right now.  And even more for prior service.


I'll keep digging though.


(merged and edited for clarity and removal of duplicated quote)

It's been a while since posting, but here's an update.  I've been working with the recruiters to put together a packet and everything is done except for the PT test which I take on Wednesday.   Should be no problem been running, rucking, and lifting damn near every day.  

Getting back in is a longer slower process than I realized it was going to be.  About twice as much paper work than when you initially get in.  So, be prepared if you're like me getting back in, or think long and hard about it before getting out.  Had to do a lot of running around to get this or fix that.  Luckily, I saved all my documents from my service years.  If you're getting back in be prepared to have to dig out all your initial contracts, DD214, ERB, Awards, Schools, Passports, Birth Certificate etc...  Surprisingly, the military schools just being listed on my DD214 wasn't enough. They wanted the actual certificates of completion, which I still had thankfully.  I think my recruiter was just being thorough, but be prepared.  

So, after Wednesday's PT test I should be off to MEPS at some point to find out if they will accept me or not.

I did have a question though.  My fiancé and I just found out we're going to be having a baby.  So much awesomeness!  Haha!  Can't wait to be a dad, but I'm concerned what this might mean as far as being able to spend some time after SFAS to help or between phases during the SFQC.  My fiancé is prior service as well so she understands, but I want to be a good Father and Husband as well.  Anyone have any insights?


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## BlackSmokeRisinG (Aug 29, 2015)

Wondering what your status is. I am in the same boat.


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## surgicalcric (Aug 30, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> "My fiancé and I just found out we're going to be having a baby... My fiancé is prior service as well so she understands, but I want to be a good Father and Husband as well.  Anyone have any insights?



Congratulations on your choice to serve, again, and on becoming a father.

However, there is not much, if any, time built into the SFQC for new fathers wanting to be fathers. There is a little bit of down time between phases but when you aren't in the field you should be home studying - like a good SF student. It can be balanced but it takes both you and the fiance' being on board or your relationship will crumble fast, whether she is PS or not, she has no idea what being the wife of an SF candidate is like. It is incumbent upon you to explain to her what you are doing, until she understands it. 

You also have to prepare yourself for not "being there" when your child needs you. My daughter was 2 y/o when I started the journey and I have missed most of her 13 years growing up. It is not easy, in fact being away from her is still the hardest thing I have EVER done. 

Best of luck in your decisions.

Crip


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## Sapper-doc (Aug 30, 2015)

thanks for your honesty, crip.

I have some bad news, however.  The day before I was to take the PT test we had to go to the hospital because my fiancé had some bleeding.  Long story short, we were there until 4 am and we lost the baby.  Needless to say, we were both pretty lost.  I needed to focus on her so, everything else kind of got put on the back burner. 

It was good to take the time and just focus on our situation.  The first few weeks after have been emotionally devastating for her, but she's doing much better now.  Back to focusing on the goal. 

 Tuesday, is new PT test day.


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## Totentanz (Aug 30, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> thanks for your honesty, crip.
> 
> I have some bad news, however.  The day before I was to take the PT test we had to go to the hospital because my fiancé had some bleeding.  Long story short, we were there until 4 am and we lost the baby.  Needless to say, we were both pretty lost.  I needed to focus on her so, everything else kind of got put on the back burner.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that, doc.


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## Viper1 (Aug 30, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> thanks for your honesty, crip.
> 
> I have some bad news, however.  The day before I was to take the PT test we had to go to the hospital because my fiancé had some bleeding.  Long story short, we were there until 4 am and we lost the baby.  Needless to say, we were both pretty lost.  I needed to focus on her so, everything else kind of got put on the back burner.
> 
> ...



Our thoughts are with you sapper-doc.  Hang in there.


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## Red Flag 1 (Aug 30, 2015)

I am so very sorry to hear that you lost the baby. That is a crushing blow for both of you. My thoughts are prayers are with you as you both focus on recovering from this.


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## Sapper-doc (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks y'all, seriously.

Since the VA doesn't handle pregnancy care they outsourced us.  We got to choose the place which reassured us, because we had some of the best Docs in the state.  Setting all this up took some time so, she was just over 10 weeks and we still hadn't had our initial consult.  We were supposed to have our first consult and ultrasound that Thursday.  Instead our emergency visit, Tuesday into Wednesday morning, was our first time sitting down with a Doc and ended up being to tell us our baby was dead. 

The kick in the ding-dong part of all this is that the VA is supposed to cover the expenses.  Initially, it was a struggle to get them to cover everything since we didn't have our initial consult yet, but I think we have it sorted out, finally.

I'll update you guys how I performed after tomorrow's PT test.

Thanks again


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## Red Flag 1 (Aug 31, 2015)

If they send you a bill, ask them to "resubmit" before doing anything else. Send me a pm if you have and questions about the billing or the loss you have suffered.
I wish you the best on your PT test.


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## Sapper-doc (Sep 2, 2015)

Failed the PT test.  Guess I thought I was in better shape than I am.  I don't know if I am starting out too fast and burning out or if my techniques are off.  When I'm working by myself I seem to do much better than when I am there.  

Need to train harder is what it amounts to.  Trying again in 2 weeks.


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## Sapper-doc (Sep 3, 2015)

So, I didn't have much time to write yesterday.  But what I need to work on is running.  I had been primarily running on treadmill.  Just need to get out and run more on the road.  Pretty embarrassed and angry about it.  Thought I would smoke it.  I also have been training each event separately ie. Run day, ab day, chest day...  Individually, I can smoke all of these.   Need to now put these together.  

Not sure why I was thinking that would be enough.  Piss poor planning and execution


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## Strive4Greatness (Sep 3, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> So, I didn't have much time to write yesterday.  But what I need to work on is running.  I had been primarily running on treadmill.  Just need to get out and run more on the road.  Pretty embarrassed and angry about it.  Thought I would smoke it.  I also have been training each event separately ie. Run day, ab day, chest day...  Individually, I can smoke all of these.   Need to now put these together.
> 
> Not sure why I was thinking that would be enough.  Piss poor planning and execution



I'm not SF or anything, but you should check out SOFWODs. I've seen significant gains in everything, especially running.


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## Jiffy (Nov 5, 2015)

There is also a workout program called the Thor 3. When I was at Drum my recruiter told me that this is the program they recommend for getting your "Mind and body" right for SFAS.


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## Sapper-doc (Nov 6, 2015)

So, quick update.  I looked into a lot of stuff and have been doing all kinds of hybrid training and modeled off of some of the sofwod and other models.  Feeling good and fit.  I haven't lost a lot of weight, only about 10lbs. total, but looking a lot leaner.  I'm 6'1" and about 220lbs.  I feel the best thing I  do to improve my run was sprints up my parking garage forward then running backwards.  I also started running with my old aid-bag which I have weighted to be about 25-30lbs once or twice a week.  Just heavy enough to know it's there.  I've made running 2+ miles basically an almost daily routine again.  Need to start pushing to make 4-6 miles the minimum standard.   Started working on pull-ups too since I've heard that's a gate.

Two weeks ago, I hurt my back doing deadlifts, hand slipped off the bar at 315lbs. 2/3 of the way up pulling some muscles.  Got checked out just in case, nothing serious.  Didn't do much that first week after, bending hurt too much.  Been taking it easy this week because of it, but it's all good.

This has been a much longer road than I thought it would be, but it's been a lot of fun and looking forward to good news.  Taking test again in a week or two depending on how my back feels.


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## Sapper-doc (Nov 6, 2015)

Forgot to add, since I was struggling initially I decided to enlist some help.  I've been working with a trainer 2 days a week.  We took a look at standards plus I went over with him some of the stuff I would be doing.  So we've incorporated things like carrying 5 gallon water jugs,  to plyometrics, to weighted skid pushes, tire flips, ropes, body weight calisthenics and of course some rifle PT.

He also helped teach me about diet and macros which I thought I understood before, but after working with him has opened my eyes to a lot good information.  

I hope the Army will take me despite my age, but if not this goal and journey has taught me a great deal.


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## Sapper-doc (Dec 15, 2015)

I passed my PT test. 64 push-ups, 55 sit ups, 16 minutes 44 seconds  2 mile run. Although I know that's still pretty weak as far as an SF candidate is concerned, it's a huge improvement from where I was and I pass for my age 32.  I also passed my height/weight/tape and dropped body fat % by 6% since I started this process 6 months ago although my weight is the same at 228lbs.  

That being said, we finished up remaining paperwork and are submitting the packet up.  Just need to keep training. Need that run time down in 13s which will be doable.

We also found out that if this doesn't work for 18X I do have a few other options under different MOSs to get in and then drop a packet once in.  One of the available MOSs is 13F.  I was wondering what you guys think of that MOS.  I met a few fisters in my day and was impressed with their job/abilities.  Also, cav scout is available too.


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 15, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> I passed my PT test. 64 push-ups, 55 sit ups, 16 minutes 44 seconds  2 mile run. Although I know that's still pretty weak as far as an SF candidate is concerned, it's a huge improvement from where I was and I pass for my age 32.  I also passed my height/weight/tape and dropped body fat % by 6% since I started this process 6 months ago although my weight is the same at 228lbs.
> 
> That being said, we finished up remaining paperwork and are submitting the packet up.  Just need to keep training. Need that run time down in 13s which will be doable.
> 
> We also found out that if this doesn't work for 18X I do have a few other options under different MOSs to get in and then drop a packet once in.  One of the available MOSs is 13F.  I was wondering what you guys think of that MOS.  I met a few fisters in my day and was impressed with their job/abilities.  Also, cav scout is available too.



Good to hear you passed your PT test, congratulations!


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## Sapper-doc (Dec 27, 2015)

Merry Christmas all.

Haven't heard anything back yet.  I'm not really expecting much with the holidays and all.  If 18X doesn't work I'm probably going to pick one of the MOSs on the following list:

12Y, 13F, 15D, 15E, 15N, 15R, 15Y, 19D, 19K, 25Q, 25S, 35F, 35G, 35N, 68C, 68Y, 88M, 91A, 91H, 94F, 94T.

This is the current business rules, Enhanced PS Opportunities, for prior service with over 36 months time in service.  From what I have been told, (check with a recruiter), if you have less than 36 months you can pick any specialty so long as you meet that MOS's requirements.

Once I get through whatever training is necessary for any of the above MOSs, I can drop a packet for SF once in.  That being said, I'm going to continue training hoping for 18X, but with a plan B in mind.  If anyone was or is any of the above MOSs if you send me a message about what it was like that would be awesome.  I'm mostly interested in the 25Q, 25S, 13F, 19D, but any info would be appreciated.

I am also wondering if anyone knows what a good goal should be for pull-ups?  I'm not trying to GQ the event, but I want to make sure I'm working towards a standard.  I've heard it's 'a do as many as you can' sort of thing, which I completely understand.  I guess I want to know do they allow a small kick to get momentum, do they expect a dead hang in between reps, should I be training for 3-6-10 reps?  Any advice would be helpful.


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## TLDR20 (Dec 27, 2015)

13F


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## AWP (Dec 27, 2015)

+1 on 13F. Stay away from ANY Signal (25 series) MOS. Stay far away from 19D.


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## Brill (Dec 27, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> +1 on 13F. Stay away from ANY Signal (25 series) MOS. Stay far away from 19D.



Blasphemy!!!


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## Sapper-doc (Dec 27, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> +1 on 13F. Stay away from ANY Signal (25 series) MOS. Stay far away from 19D.



Thanks for your input, one question though.  If you're signal why wouldn't you recommend anything signals?  I'm trying to also consider possible civilian application.  Although I am very much a "no quit" type person, it is possible for me to not get selected even if I complete SFAS down the road.  Just trying to weigh all options.


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## policemedic (Dec 27, 2015)

Calvary...pffft.


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## AWP (Dec 28, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> Thanks for your input, one question though.  If you're signal why wouldn't you recommend anything signals?  I'm trying to also consider possible civilian application.  Although I am very much a "no quit" type person, it is possible for me to not get selected even if I complete SFAS down the road.  Just trying to weigh all options.



Conventional Signal is broken. Sierras and Quebecs deployed to Afghanistan would find themselves pulling nightshift duty in the base tech control facility. They were used early in the war, but much of your deployed SATCOM work is done by civilians and Troposcatter was almost never used.

Unless you land a Sierra slot in a SOF unit (I don't think they use 25Q's) you will find yourself bored and underutilized.

If you wanted a Signal MOS, go 25B or maybe 25C and make a run at JCU.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 28, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> +1 on 13F. Stay away from ANY Signal (25 series) MOS. Stay far away from 19D.



Wait, I thought 19D's were like LRS, but more like a Army version of Force Reconnaissance crossed with some super RECONDO silent killer training? Have I been lied to again?


To the OP, 13F would be a good option if you want to get out the wire and play. If your looking for a civi career, those 15 series dudes make some good cash on the civi technician side. Also if possible, flight medic has some civi applications, especially if you get your paramedic cert.


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## compforce (Dec 28, 2015)

> If you wanted a Signal MOS, go 25B or maybe 25C and make a run at JCU.



25B will NOT prepare you for the real world of IT.  Most of the things you would need to know to operate in the civi world in IT are handled by contractors (stateside).  Your only experience will be when you are deployed OCONUS, and most of that will be the equivalent of customer support.  I know a CW3 (250A) in SOF (he's in one of the Groups) that is only allowed to take calls and create tickets for the contractors to solve.  He's not allowed to even d0 a password reset.  The only position you will be prepared for is help desk, which tops out at about 45k, compared with starting salaries of 50k+ for a sysadmin with basic certs.


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## Sapper-doc (Dec 28, 2015)

compforce said:


> 25B will NOT prepare you for the real world of IT.  Most of the things you would need to know to operate in the civi world in IT are handled by contractors (stateside).  Your only experience will be when you are deployed OCONUS, and most of that will be the equivalent of customer support.  I know a CW3 (250A) in SOF (he's in one of the Groups) that is only allowed to take calls and create tickets for the contractors to solve.  He's not allowed to even d0 a password reset.  The only position you will be prepared for is help desk, which tops out at about 45k, compared with starting salaries of 50k+ for a sysadmin with basic certs.


Wow!  That's very shocking and disappointing.


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## DA SWO (Dec 28, 2015)

Another +1 on 13F.
Better options


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## compforce (Dec 28, 2015)

Sapper-doc said:


> Wow!  That's very shocking and disappointing.



Yes, I had a long discussion about it with the CFSOCC-A  J-6 while in AFG.  Basically, the focus for 25B is on the networking side.  The classes, especially AIT, are suffering from a very long game of telephone (that's the one where everyone sits in a circle and a word is whispered from ear to ear and never comes out the same at the other end).  I call it the inbreeding effect.  Basically, there was an original group of people that were very very good at IT.  They then went on to teach other soldiers (train the trainer)_.  Unfortunately, the soldiers that they trained had a necessarily imperfect understanding of the material.  Those Soldiers went on to train the next group of Soldiers, who had a necessarily imperfect understanding of an imperfect understanding.  The cycle continued and until there is outside blood that comes in and refreshes the gene pool, the rate of defects (Soldiers that are not trained accurately and well enough to be useful) will continue to grow resulting in even less effective understanding.  There is a small amount of fresh understanding coming in from the outside in the form of Millenials that had an interest before they came in, but the military indoctrination and military customs keep them from being effective.  They are basically told to sit down, shut up, and do what that "experienced" NCO told them to do, even if they, the Privates, know it's wrong.  And it can't be any other way with lives on the line.  Who wants a fresh Private getting in the habit of telling NCOs that they're wrong, even if they really are?

The military has followed the same path as many of the large fortune companies and decided that it is cheaper to hire contractors than to raise the number of employees (military) to what would be needed, especially when you factor in the high attrition caused by Soldiers that think they will take that Military skill out into the civilian world and get rich.  As a result, they've lost the organizational knowledge necessary to be self sufficient.  Even if they did decide to try and switch back, it would take a minimum of 10 years before the force was trained well enough and had enough experience to entirely eliminate the contract positions.  Self sufficiency, once lost, is extremely hard to regain especially in a workforce as large as the military.


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## CDG (Dec 28, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Wait, I thought 19D's were like LRS, but more like a Army version of Force Reconnaissance crossed with some super RECONDO silent killer training? Have I been lied to again?



It's that damn recruiter at the Red Lobster.  He gets you all hopped up on Cheddar Bay Biscuits and you're ready to believe anything.


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## policemedic (Dec 28, 2015)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Also if possible, flight medic has some civi applications, especially if you get your paramedic cert.



Only if you become a paramedic, and that won't happen anywhere in the Army except SOF.

Civilian flight services will only hire EMTs to work in dispatch or to drive ground ambulances when the weather is too bad to fly. 

In any case, I'm not sure the OP knows what he want to do. Randomly picking an MOS to get in so you can drop a 4187 for SFAS is a recipe for disaster in my view.


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## AWP (Dec 28, 2015)

compforce said:


> 25B will NOT prepare you for the real world of IT.  Most of the things you would need to know to operate in the civi world in IT are handled by contractors (stateside).  Your only experience will be when you are deployed OCONUS, and most of that will be the equivalent of customer support.  I know a CW3 (250A) in SOF (he's in one of the Groups) that is only allowed to take calls and create tickets for the contractors to solve.  He's not allowed to even d0 a password reset.  The only position you will be prepared for is help desk, which tops out at about 45k, compared with starting salaries of 50k+ for a sysadmin with basic certs.



It is limited in the outside world, but that's why I mentioned JCU. Knowing what I know now, if I were to enlist on the 25 series side, I'd choose one of those and work to go JCU. Otherwise...if you want an IT career go in the AF. They get a TS and some schooling.


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## Brill (Dec 28, 2015)

If you want to kill people and break their stuff, go anything 18-series.

If you want to enable them with information and brief their exploits while the 18-series are out killing people and breaking stuff (or training surrogates to do same), go 35-series.

If you want to become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams and moderate a website in your "off-time", go 25-series.


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## Sapper-doc (Jan 25, 2016)

update:

Got a call from my recruiter today.  He said I have to come in and resign abunch of stuff because it's now expired.  Not sure what's going on over there because I thought my packet had already been sent up the chain.  Trying to keep a cool head about it since I am at their mercy, but from what I understand my packet has never left the recruitment battalion.  

On a good note, I gave myself a PT test the other day and trimmed almost another full minute off my run and increased in push-ups and sit-ups and can do 6 pull-ups from a dead hang.  Maybe the foot-dragging will be beneficial in the long run.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 25, 2016)

policemedic said:


> Only if you become a paramedic, and that won't happen anywhere in the Army except SOF.
> 
> Civilian flight services will only hire EMTs to work in dispatch or to drive ground ambulances when the weather is too bad to fly.
> 
> In any case, I'm not sure the OP knows what he want to do. Randomly picking an MOS to get in so you can drop a 4187 for SFAS is a recipe for disaster in my view.



This is actually not accurate anymore. All flight medics become paramedics, and get things like CCAT, as well as flight specific specialties.


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## policemedic (Jan 25, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> This is actually not accurate anymore. All flight medics become paramedics, and get things like CCAT, as well as flight specific specialties.



I stand corrected.


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## Sapper-doc (Feb 1, 2016)

So...

I finally got a definitive answer on my situation.  

Drum-roll please....


DISAPPROVED 


Recruiting command denied my packet.  They didn't comment as to why specifically, just the word "disapproved," was left in the comments section.  I'm not really surprised by this, but I'm still a little disappointed.  Some on here had warned me that this would be the most likely scenario and I accept it.  My recruiter is a little upset though, he just wants to know exactly what was disapproved in case there is anything that we could fix and resubmit.  He said he will continue to look into it.  

In the meantime I'm most likely going to go for the following MOS 68W10M6.  I'm a prior medic so I think this will give me the highest rate of success down the road in the med field.  It may give me a little more medical proficiency to offer if I ever do have the honor of making a team.

Part of me wants to sign up for what ever has the shortest MOS just so I can get in and drop a packet, but I know that's probably a dumb idea.


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## policemedic (Feb 1, 2016)

Sapper-doc said:


> So...
> 
> I finally got a definitive answer on my situation.
> 
> ...


 
I thought they did away with ASIs in CMF 68.  The LPN MOS is now 68C, if memory serves.


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## Sapper-doc (Feb 1, 2016)

policemedic said:


> I thought they did away with ASIs in CMF 68.  The LPN MOS is now 68C, if memory serves.



That's what I thought too.  How it's listed is 68C (68W10M6).


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## policemedic (Feb 1, 2016)

Sapper-doc said:


> That's what I thought too.  How it's listed is 68C (68W10M6).


 
Weird.

Anyway, good luck!


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## Sapper-doc (Feb 22, 2016)

Have a date for MEPS next Tuesday


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## SkrewzLoose (Feb 22, 2016)

Be prepared for approximately 60-90 minutes of paperwork and physical exams to take about 12-15 hours.


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## Sapper-doc (Mar 4, 2016)

So went to MEPS on Wednesday to do the physical portion Which I passed.  While I was there asked if they could do an airborne physical which they obliged.  PULHES all 1s, passed the vivid red/green, hearing, height weight etc. all good to go.  

Some how my scheduling got messed up and they only scheduled me for the physical portion.  So, I have to head up there again this Tuesday to actually select a MOS then go from there.


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## DA SWO (Mar 4, 2016)

Sapper-doc said:


> So went to MEPS on Wednesday to do the physical portion Which I passed.  While I was there asked if they could do an airborne physical which they obliged.  PULHES all 1s, passed the vivid red/green, hearing, height weight etc. all good to go.
> 
> Some how my scheduling got messed up and they only scheduled me for the physical portion.  So, I have to head up there again this Tuesday to actually select a MOS then go from there.


Grab an Airborne slot if possible.


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## Sapper-doc (Mar 4, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Grab an Airborne slot if possible.



Definitely will do if I can.


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## Sapper-doc (Mar 14, 2016)

So I haven't updated on what I signed up for because now I'm being told I cannot enlist at all.  The reason?  RCP (retention control points).

Here's the deal.  

My initial enlistment contract was 36 months which was extended to 44 months.  I separated and was recalled in IRR status and deployed to Iraq for 11 months.   Total service time is 55 months or 4 years 8 months.   I only ever made E-4 during that time because  points for my MOS were in the mid 700s at the time.  Since I was out more than 4 years I will be reduced in grade to E-3.  Which puts me in jeopardy of falling short of RCP which is capped at 5 years.

So the recruiting battalion S-3 is not approving me to enlist because of this.   My thought is let me enlist knowing my situation and let my NCOs down the line make the decision on promoting me.  I've seen people promoted for all kinds of retention reasons, why not me?  It's not as though I'm being UCMJed it's because of a technicality.  I'm so frustrated and pissed at this point.  Because of the change in grade  and the RCP system they're essentially barring prior service from enlisting if they've been out a few years and lower enlisted. I just don't get it we've been at this for a better part of a year and now it's an issue.


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## Sapper-doc (Mar 14, 2016)

4 years 7 months


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## DA SWO (Mar 14, 2016)

Sapper-doc said:


> So I haven't updated on what I signed up for because now I'm being told I cannot enlist at all.  The reason?  RCP (retention control points).
> 
> Here's the deal.
> 
> ...


Find a Guard unit then.
Air Guard usually has openings for Air Evac Techs.
Good Medical Mission helping Wounded Warriors.


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## Cass (Apr 11, 2016)

Have you been in contact with anyone in the SF Proponency office at Ft. Bragg?


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## Yeti (Jul 21, 2016)

@Sapper-doc you ever figure it out?


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## Sapper-doc (Jul 22, 2016)

Sorry I haven't been on in a while.  It's been due in part to overall frustration with this process and other issues I will elaborate on.  

First off to recap, I was denied enlistment by recruiting battalion because I was an E-4 with over 4 years 7 months active duty and since I was out more than 4 years I would be reduced in grade to an E-3.  They changed the retention time limits for E-3 -> E-4 to 5 years and I wouldn't be eligible for promotion again for 6 months putting me over the 5 years in E-3 and I would have to be kicked out of the army due to that issue.

I applied for waivers to keep my E-4, all got shot down.  Contacted SORB multiple times, but they said they can't do anything until I have a contract.  My brother, who works with 3rd group, suggested contacting local state rep. I did and he was not as helpful as I had hoped.  He was even a little surprised at being pushed back from what I gather.  I don't know specifically what channels or what conversations he had or with whom, but the basic understanding I got back from him was rules are rules.

Frustrated with everything, I decided to give it a bit of a break and also take some time to really examine myself, my situation, and what I want out of life.  

I realized a few things:

1: I should have taken my career when I was in the army more seriously. I should have approached it with more maturity and resolve than I displayed when I was in.

2: Outside of the army I made all sorts of excuses to not needing to further my career or education because I landed a cushy job that needed minimal effort.

3: That although I always wanted to be SF I at least did not display the character when I was younger to strive for it.

4: My long-term career/life goal would be to become a PA or a MD eventually.  I wanted to gain the experience of being on a team, but also use that experience to further my individual career.

5: Even if I am blocked currently due to regulations, it doesn't mean that I have to stay stagnant and continue doing nothing to better myself.

With these realizations I started attending summer classes at a local community college to get my Associates in biology.  I plan on then going to Penn State - Brandywine for pre-med. and then potentially med school.  In the meantime, if regs change or something comes up where I can get back in  I can take advantage of it. 

So, I'm sorry to say, but it looks like for me I might not have many options currently in regards to SF.  It seems I simply waited too long to act.  I don't want to say I've quit because if the opportunity presents itself I'm in, it's just all I get right now is "NOs" everywhere I turn.


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## Devildoc (Jul 22, 2016)

Sapper-doc, you have gained some valuable insight.  Not too far from 50 and looking back, not making it isn't the end of the world.  Not going to give you platitudes, but it sounds like you have your head on straight.  Good luck.


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## Sapper-doc (Jul 22, 2016)

The other issues by the way, are school and work.  I'm attending full time and working full time.  My work hours have me around 55 hours a week and my two days off I'm in classes for 8 hours taking 12 credits.  Next semester I am already enrolled for 21 credits and plan to cut one day out of my work schedule so I have a guaranteed study day.  I also am planning a wedding and trying to balance my relationship with that as well.

Bonus at least is I'm doing excellent in school.  I am also starting a private study with oversight of one of my professors examining the link between veterans (including private contractors) and suicide to try and bridge the gap of post-war / post-service  social reintegration.  Right now, I'm gathering information empirically to see where potential gaps in the research or data exists and the going from there.


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## Sapper-doc (Jul 22, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Sapper-doc, you have gained some valuable insight.  Not too far from 50 and looking back, not making it isn't the end of the world.  Not going to give you platitudes, but it sounds like you have your head on straight.  Good luck.


Thanks man


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