# Today in my speech class...



## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

This morning I was in class and we were told to share our topic for our persuasive speech. 

My proposed topic was why I think we should have an enforcement of a 1 year military service and a completion of a basic training for our society, primarily those between the ages of 18-24ish. Upon stating my topic out loud, my professor as well as 7 of the thirteen college students (mostly freshman)  in my class began laughing. They thought it was an OUTRAGEOUS idea. My teacher said "so you want me to send my little daughter off to war?" Then she stated " I grew up in a time of peace, my daughter has never known peace, all she has known is war" My teacher is in her fifties. I could go on a rant but I will not about those statement.
 I was slightly offended to say the least. Three of the girls that laughed just graduated high school and already have babies, not putting that down but you would think they would consider the military as a way to provide for their child. I have wondered while people don't turn to the military more often. 

I vented to my brother and dad who are part of the Air Force (dad is retired E9). My brother shared an article with me from 2014 titled 

*Author Bing West says 75% of young adults in U.S. not mentally or physically fit to serve in military*

What are your views on a mandatory military service, obviously not sending people to combat zones, but anything towards defending "their" Freedom. I think you should at least want to serve in some way as a member of our society. I know the military does not want every body, but would basic training help shape us into a better society attempting to instill core values in to the society?


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## x SF med (Jun 3, 2015)

Please post the link to the article.

You're asking us to form the thesis for your speech?  We'll review your work and add/correct/amend/edit/delete  your themes once you have a working premise, but you need to formulate the argument you will use on your own.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

x SF med said:


> Please post the link to the article.
> 
> You're asking us to form the thesis for your speech?  We'll review your work and add/correct/amend/edit/delete  your themes once you have a working premise, but you need to formulate the argument you will use on your own.



http://www.politifact.com/rhode-isl...-bing-west-says-seventy-five-percent-young-a/


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> http://www.politifact.com/rhode-isl...-bing-west-says-seventy-five-percent-young-a/


I am in the research phase of my speech. I am sorry I was not trying to give the impression of trying to get other people to formulate my thesis or speech for me. Because I want a good grade, I will more than likely opt towards _Why you should want to serve your country _as the thesis for my paper. Just because that will be more difficult for my teacher to try and counter argue my points, unless she believes that things should just be handed to you in life. I feel like this would be a more applicable topic to my classmates rather than trying to state that we need a mandatory basic training and military service, I believe that is called conscription? 

Off topic: I posted a thread a couple months ago for a speech I was going to give in regards to Law of Armed Conflict and after talking to you guys from this thread, my mind was changed. I originally thought that it should be an eye for an eye in regards to LOAC but then I soon realized that as American's we must live above that way of thinking. 

Back on topic. I will post my outline once I finish it and y'all can tear it apart if it needs to be corrected. This will not be until this weekend, probably Saturday (I have to study for another exam so I will not work on it until after my exam) Thank you for your reply x SF med.


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## 8654Maine (Jun 3, 2015)

The fact that your cunt of a teacher would laugh at your idea of suggested topic is telling.

It is a class on persuasive speech, NOT, "what I agree with", no?

I say make a speech on why the selective service registration is sexist and outdated in regards to not including women.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

8654Maine said:


> The fact that your cunt of a teacher would laugh at your idea of suggested topic is telling.
> 
> It is a class on persuasive speech, NOT, "what I agree with", no?
> 
> I say make a speech on why the selective service registration is sexist and outdated in regards to not including women.


yes, the class is on public speaking. This speech is on a persuasive speech, I was in front of the class and she laughed then began to try and find points opposing my topic, but luckily I knew enough to defend myself in front of the class. She is extremely left-wing, claims to of never consumed alcohol in her life. These speeches are much more different than the ones I am use to doing. Too much fluff for me. My first speech I will do is on the lost art of arguing (the idea is taken from Havok Journal). She told me she was going to grade mine much more strict than the other students because of my topic, and not on how I give my speech? It's her class though so I said it is fine with me and I will just have to bust my butt on it, I did not want to do easy topics, those are boring.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 3, 2015)

I laugh at your idea as well. Everyone is not prepared for the rigors of a life in the military. What about those with physical and mental disabilities? What about those with a proven disposition towards the awful? If you had said mandatory service, to include the military, I would think your idea slightly less preposterous. In that light, including Americorps, peace corps, military, Habitat For Humanity, shit like that I would inclined to say you have a slightly better idea. Even in times where we had a draft,  a small percentage of Americans have served. Even in WW2 it wasn't like 50% of people served. There is no precedent in the US for mandatory military service. What would we do with all those bodies?


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## Hillclimb (Jun 3, 2015)

You should ask to use her daughter as a source for said "war" knowledge. 

If you want to make a persuasive speech along those lines; figure how you can shape your goals and theirs together. If the end state is that you want to shape society and instill values, there are many ways to skin that cat. You've already learned that military service will shut them out, and more than 50% of the class is going to be tuning you out during your speech. Orient your crowd, drive your idea, but in a way that will appeal to them. TLDR20 brought up a bunch of them.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> I laugh at your idea as well. Everyone is not prepared for the rigors of a life in the military. What about those with physical and mental disabilities? What about those with a proven disposition towards the awful? If you had said mandatory service, to include the military, I would think your idea slightly less preposterous. In that light, including Americorps, peace corps, military, Habitat For Humanity, shit like that I would inclined to say you have a slightly better idea. Even in times where we had a draft,  a small percentage of Americans have served. Even in WW2 it wasn't like 50% of people served. There is no precedent in the US for mandatory military service. What would we do with all those bodies?


With all the bodies, I would say send them through some sort of basic training in which they learn the lessons which come from basic training. Where it is follower ship, leadership, the core values, or just get up and be more active once in a blue moon. I believe obesity is not a reason for not being able to serve. If someone is truly not capable of serving then they should get a pardon from service, but there are plenty of jobs out there for people to do, even if it is going around and picking up trash. Be the best damn trash picker there has ever been. I think there should be the volunteer service option, but others should do activities for a year, as you suggested, with Americorps, peace corps, military, Habitat For Humanity. Clean up the country, learn to work. If the BX and commisary's operated like a Walmart then that would provide more jobs. Maybe not through the jobs under the headline of "military" but have it so they can choose between a military service, or one that you proposed and it wouldn't sound as much like a Hitler society, although I like some of the points Hitler had for his society, like no smoking and mandatory physical training every day.

Would you be okay with the topic if it was a mandatory service, not specified to the military?


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## Brill (Jun 3, 2015)

Soviets tried that (called them "subotniki" (Saturday people)) and the only value learned was "do the bare minimum".

Obesity has more to do with the war on poverty than laziness: cheap food vice healthy food.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

lindy said:


> Soviets tried that (called them "subotniki" (Saturday people)) and the only value learned was "do the bare minimum".
> 
> Obesity has more to do with the war on poverty than laziness: cheap food vice healthy food.


I am going to read up on it now! Thank you.

The bare minimum would be more than nothing for those that would other wise have absolutely no input in how their nation?


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

National service is an issue that has been largely identified with the Democratic Party and the left of the political spectrum. That is unfortunate, because duty, honor, and country are values that transcend ideology. National service, both civilian and military, can embody the virtues of patriotism that conservatives cherish. —Senator John McCain (2001)
http://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/national-service-thw.pdf
That link was an interesting read if anyone is interested in the topic. It weighs in on both sides of the topic of mandatory service (not military specific).


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> Would you be okay with the topic if it was a mandatory service, not specified to the military?



Just a thought, but how are you going to do a speech intended to sway opinion, when you obviously do not passionately believe it yourself ?

Your response to @TLDR20 should have been, "thanks, but piss off. I believe every person should have to join up, and here's why". You let one comment change your mind about your whole topic, and then ask someone who has no input on your grade, for their "okay" on your new topic.

I'd say pick a new topic that you are not afraid to defend and actually believe in.

p.s.

Your teacher is a cunt, but she is a lefty and not afraid to tell you what she thinks, so much in fact that she will laugh at you and tell you that she will grade you harder because of your topic. Something to be learned by from that.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Just a thought, but how are you going to do a speech intended to sway opinion, when you obviously do not passionately believe it yourself ?
> 
> Your response to @TLDR20 should have been, "thanks, but piss off. I believe every person should have to join up, and here's why". You let one comment change your mind about your whole topic, and then ask someone who has no input on your grade, for their "okay" on your new topic.
> 
> ...



This is why I am leaning towards the shut up and color method. I still want to see what all of you think. I do not have a super strong opinion, as I do not have the expertise to have one on the military and service since I have not served my time.
 I would like a good grade rather than try to sway the opinions of people who have already shut their minds and ears down to me. The students that agreed with me all come from a military family, except one, he is from Texas.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

And are not the ones that grade my speech and essay.


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## 8654Maine (Jun 3, 2015)

What @Ooh-Rah said is very important:  pick a topic that you are passionate about and write an objective essay to sway opinion.

He's also right that you should not easily flip-flop on the subject.  Depth and breadth are good components of character.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

I have decided I will not shut up and color for this speech. I will do the speech on Why I feel it should be mandatory for one year of service to your country. Because I feel that if you do not want to support your country then you need to leave, and not mooch off of the fruits it produces.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/america-war-93-time-222-239-years-since-1776.html

I will also have my information printed so I can negate her credibility in her  "life of peace and her daughters life of war".


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## 8654Maine (Jun 3, 2015)

I applaud your endeavor.

I disagree with your conclusion:  There are many actions of this country that I do not support.  If you try to get me to leave this country, bring lots of body bags.  My sons have not done military time.  Try and deport them.  Bring body bags.

Plus, deporting citizens just doesn't sell well to JQP.

What's your response?

I am not arguing your thesis.  I want to know your thought process and ensure that you flesh out your opinion.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 3, 2015)

Take your emotion out of it. Look at this topic objectively, think about the fact our country has 300+million people.

How would you grandfather people in? Are 40 year old men suddenly going to lose rights?


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

8654Maine said:


> I applaud your endeavor.
> 
> I disagree with your conclusion:  There are many actions of this country that I do not support.  If you try to get me to leave this country, bring lots of body bags.  My sons have not done military time.  Try and deport them.  Bring body bags.
> 
> ...



You have your opinions and I have mine. I cannot and will not make you or anyone else leave this country just because I disagree with you. That is part of this awesome country. I do not think it has to be military service. There should be an option between military or a community service type job. And you should still have the options of signing a military contract and working as military people do now. But the one year of military service maybe be a job like accounting or something up their alley. Their are hundreds of jobs to choose from and it would be like being an intern for a year. I am not sure on the benefits though like pay and what not. But you get to see if you want that job for a career or a certain period of time after your one year of mandatory service. The other jobs would be something along the lines of of building houses or parks and maintaining your community, helping the homeless or anyone in need.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Take your emotion out of it. Look at this topic objectively, think about the fact our country has 300+million people.
> 
> How would you grandfather people in? Are 40 year old men suddenly going to lose rights?


I would grandfather people in after a certain date. Make it mandatory for the upcoming generations. The one year mandatory service would be enough for just 18year olds or a single age. There are approximately 26 million 18-24 year old in the United States right now.


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## CQB (Jun 3, 2015)

We have Gap Year service here. Twelve months voluntary service between high school and higher education. If recruits like it, they have the opportunity to stay on. 
I had a similar experience when having to present on a topic of choice. Mine was shooting in national parks which created an uproar. 
As advice, stick to your guns, research & present a well researched argument. You may find you can change peoples' opinion. Good luck.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 3, 2015)

Don't think anyone brought up Israel yet, but be sure to read up on this. 

http://newsblaze.com/story/20091126072145zzzz.nb/topstory.html


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service

There are a lot of countries with conscription, and others with out. I wonder if it is six in one hand, half a dozen in the other? I will look into many countries in more detail this weekend, both with and without and the failed ones and the successful ones.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 3, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> I would grandfather people in after a certain date. Make it mandatory for the upcoming generations. The one year mandatory service would be enough for just 18year olds or a single age. There are approximately 26 million 18-24 year old in the United States right now.


Would not those young people discriminate against the grandfathered people?


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

TLDR20 said:


> Would not those young people discriminate against the grandfathered people?



Do they not discriminate already? What is your stance TLDR20. Are you pro or against a mandatory service? 

Anyone else, what would the punishment be for evading your service?


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## Il Duce (Jun 3, 2015)

@amoriss127289 I would recommend you start with your strategic concept - mandatory federal service - and work through the implications on a national scale for your speech.  A lot of what is being discussed is working from the ground up - exactly how the system would work and the details - instead of making a case for your concept first.  If you can't get past the first stage - there should be mandatory federal service or there shouldn't - the details won't matter. 

I assume you don't have unlimited time for this speech, plus there are a myriad ways of executing the concept.  I recommend you decide the core of what you believe - it sounds like it's that mandatory federal service strengthens civic capacity, fosters a sense of civic duty, and mobilizes the populace towards national policy - but that just might be my take on what you've said.  Whatever your core beliefs on the benefits of some sort of system I'd start with why those are a good thing and put those into your argument.  Then, look at what people might object to about each of those things - impingements on individual liberty/conscience, expense, expanding of federal power, etc.  Work those arguments/counterarguments into your speech. 

Also, I'd recommend you take some time and reflect on why you didn't like having your feelings/opinions laughed at and dismissed.  Then see if any of those things you didn't appreciate people doing to you - dismissing you, making snap judgments about your intelligence, assuming they knew what you were thinking - are things you might want to be watchful for in your own behavior.  If you decide anyone who doesn't react the way you'd like them to is a liberal cunt and dismiss them out of hand you'll feel much better about yourself and your ideas, but you won't form very strong arguments.  You'll require an echo chamber to tell you only what you want to hear.  It's a recipe for a great future in talk radio, but not in academia or any profession you can't dismiss others out of hand.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Don't think anyone brought up Israel yet, but be sure to read up on this.
> 
> http://newsblaze.com/story/20091126072145zzzz.nb/topstory.html


I cannot like your reply so here is my thumbs up. I like the IDF views expressed in this article. I assume other countries have similar views too? But thank you for that shared information!


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

Il Duce said:


> @amoriss127289 I would recommend you start with your strategic concept - mandatory federal service - and work through the implications on a national scale for your speech.  A lot of what is being discussed is working from the ground up - exactly how the system would work and the details - instead of making a case for your concept first.  If you can't get past the first stage - there should be mandatory federal service or there shouldn't - the details won't matter.
> 
> I assume you don't have unlimited time for this speech, plus there are a myriad ways of executing the concept.  I recommend you decide the core of what you believe - it sounds like it's that mandatory federal service strengthens civic capacity, fosters a sense of civic duty, and mobilizes the populace towards national policy - but that just might be my take on what you've said.  Whatever your core beliefs on the benefits of some sort of system I'd start with why those are a good thing and put those into your argument.  Then, look at what people might object to about each of those things - impingements on individual liberty/conscience, expense, expanding of federal power, etc.  Work those arguments/counterarguments into your speech.
> 
> Also, I'd recommend you take some time and reflect on why you didn't like having your feelings/opinions laughed at and dismissed.  Then see if any of those things you didn't appreciate people doing to you - dismissing you, making snap judgments about your intelligence, assuming they knew what you were thinking - are things you might want to be watchful for in your own behavior.  If you decide anyone who doesn't react the way you'd like them to is a liberal cunt and dismiss them out of hand you'll feel much better about yourself and your ideas, but you won't form very strong arguments.  You'll require an echo chamber to tell you only what you want to hear.  It's a recipe for a great future in talk radio, but not in academia or any profession you can't dismiss others out of hand.


Thank you. I have read, and re read your last paragraph numerous times. It has helped me out and I will keep it around throughout my life. 

Tomorrow we have our topic defense ( I turn in my manicured topic proposal.) I plan on focusing my speech on Why there should be a mandatory year, and I will do my research on how to put it in to effect and other rebuttals my teacher might have for my idea so I can properly defend my views.

Below is the proper format for the proposal document she provided to us.


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## Il Duce (Jun 3, 2015)

I would consider taking another look paragraph 3.  Most people are less amenable to an argument when you start off insulting them.  A good way to prepare any argument is to look at it realistically from a different perspective.  Do you think your opponents in their own minds are lazy or might they have another conception of why they would not want to give up a year of their lives in a mandatory program?

For paragraph 4 you might want to include a little more explication.  One of the purposes of a college education - at least in the liberal arts tradition - is to prepare citizens.  Ideas of civic duty and the uses of tax payer money (for a majority of people who will be first-time tax payers in a few years) might be particularly applicable to a group like that.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 3, 2015)

amorris127289 said:


> Thank you. I have read, and re read your last paragraph numerous times. It has helped me out and I will keep it around throughout my life.
> 
> Tomorrow we have our topic defense ( I turn in my manicured topic proposal.) I plan on focusing my speech on Why there should be a mandatory year, and I will do my research on how to put it in to effect and other rebuttals my teacher might have for my idea so I can properly defend my views.
> 
> ...


*1.  Proposed Topic and Position: *I plan to  persuade or convince you to . . .


2. General Purpose:


3. Identify your audience:

a.  Hostile audience/Why?


b.  Receptive audience/Why?


c.  Neutral audience/Why?


4.  In paragraph form, using demographic and/or attitudinal data analysis, explain why your topic would be of interest to this audience.


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## AWP (Jun 4, 2015)

Declare your audience hostile and then proclaim them to be lazy? You could write a theorem for time travel on the whiteboard and still fail. Do what you want, and I'm a pretty binary person, but I'd equivocate and call the audience neutral. Say some are receptive, some aren't and some have an open mind....tell the class you believe that or even cite polls where opinions are divided, but hostile/ lazy? Write off this grade and scramble for an A.


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## Beagle (Jun 4, 2015)

This sounds like it could be a really expensive program.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 4, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Declare your audience hostile and then proclaim them to be lazy? You could write a theorem for time travel on the whiteboard and still fail. Do what you want, and I'm a pretty binary person, but I'd equivocate and call the audience neutral. Say some are receptive, some aren't and some have an open mind....tell the class you believe that or even cite polls where opinions are divided, but hostile/ lazy? Write off this grade and scramble for an A.


Noted and applied. Thank you Freefalling and Il Duce.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 4, 2015)

Freefalling said:


> Declare your audience hostile and then proclaim them to be lazy? You could write a theorem for time travel on the whiteboard and still fail. Do what you want, and I'm a pretty binary person, but I'd equivocate and call the audience neutral. Say some are receptive, some aren't and some have an open mind....tell the class you believe that or even cite polls where opinions are divided, but hostile/ lazy? Write off this grade and scramble for an A.


I am sitting in the class now. I just proposed my topic and my teacher says "I still believe the majority of the audience is hostile towards your idea." ......
But two of the class mates that were against the idea yesterday were nodding in approval today. I may not sway everyone but maybe I can change a few minds. I may have to go for a shock and awe method and just say 75% of the nation is fat and lazy.


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## amorris127289 (Jun 4, 2015)

I got a 4/5 on the proposal because "the audience is hostile. We did a survey in class and they said they didn't like the idea" is what she wrote on my paper.


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