# Is the Eotech hate actually justified?



## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

Okay, I get it, only aimpoints and cockroaches can survive a nuclear apocalypse (good for aimpoints... and cockroaches), but has anyone here actually broken an eotech? 

Secondly, is that insane battery life and nuclear survival capability actually worth the crappy sight picture of that ghost of a "dot" that take a year to find before you can shoot anything with it?

Seriously, what's more likely to get you killed: 

A) Your eotech battery running out
B) Not getting the first shot on target fast enough

p.s. This may seem biased, but I'm totally willing to change my mind given evidence/reasoning


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 4, 2017)

Eotech can suck my balls.

Eotech sued by US Gov, possible refunds for private party purchase.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Eotech can suck my balls.
> 
> Eotech sued by US Gov, possible refunds for private party purchase.



So the zero shifts at -1000 degrees Celsius.... Is that really that big of a problem? Just re-zero when you reach Antarctica man!


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## DA SWO (Jul 4, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> Okay, I get it, only aimpoints and cockroaches can survive a nuclear apocalypse (good for aimpoints... and cockroaches), but has anyone here actually broken an eotech?
> 
> Secondly, is that insane battery life and nuclear survival capability actually worth the crappy sight picture of that ghost of a "dot" that take a year to find before you can shoot anything with it?
> 
> ...



Missing the shot because your optic shifted can get you killed/courtmartialed too.
Get glasses if you can't see the aimpoint dot (or up the brightness).


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## AWP (Jul 4, 2017)

They defrauded the gov't. They can eat a dick.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> Missing the shot because your optic shifted can get you killed/courtmartialed too.
> Get glasses if you can't see the aimpoint dot (or up the brightness).



A) See above
B) But everyone can see the Eotech's reticule better. Even people who prefer Aimpoints admit the eotech has a better sight picture. (I've never heard anyone claim otherwise.)


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## TLDR20 (Jul 4, 2017)

How many badguys have died in the sights of an Eotech? 

Maybe it is ok if the varsity has been using it so long it has killed more dudes than cholera. 


We letting milsim guys post BS questions now?


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

AWP said:


> They defrauded the gov't. They can eat a dick.



Isn't everyone defrauding your government these days? 

Since when is that a deal breaker?

I mean, like, you're still buying F-35s for a trillion more dollars, so like... come on.


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## AWP (Jul 4, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> Isn't everyone defrauding your government these days?
> 
> Since when is that a deal breaker?
> 
> I mean, like, you're still buying F-35s for a trillion more dollars, so like... come on.



Then go buy a bloody Eotech. If you're so defensive of the sight including the reticle, then why start the thread if your mind is made up?


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 4, 2017)

"hate" because....


Stormer_117 said:


> Isn't everyone defrauding your government these days?





Stormer_117 said:


> I mean, like, you're still buying F-35s for a trillion more dollars, so like... come on.



In the context of your post, those comments irritate me.  I don't mind being 'needled' by my Canadian brothers from the north, but you have surpassed anything near 'needling' and appear to be seeking confrontation.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

AWP said:


> Then go buy a bloody Eotech. If you're so defensive of the sight including the reticle, then why start the thread if your mind is made up?



I already own one, and I'm willing to sell it and buy and Aimpoint. I just wanna know if it's really worth it...


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 4, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> "hate" because.... In the context of your post, those comments irritate me.  I don't mind being 'needled' by my Canadian brothers from the north, but you have surpassed anything near 'needling' and appear to be seeking confrontation.



No confrontation intended at all, it just seemed to me that the "defrauding" argument was itself off-topic, since it doesn't really deal with the company's product itself, but it's ethical standards, which I'm sure are not exactly humanitarian. I was just saying that is pretty much what I expect of all corporations these days, even Canadian ones, including the one I work for lolz.


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## AWP (Jul 4, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> How many badguys have died in the sights of an Eotech?
> 
> Maybe it is ok if the varsity has been using it so long it has killed more dudes than cholera.



I understand and won't deny that, but we talk about our principles and how people should be held accountable. When possible or practical I will indeed vote or purchase accordingly. For that reason I will not buy an Eotech anything. If others want to, great, but my money won't go to that company.


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## policemedic (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> Okay, I get it, only aimpoints and cockroaches can survive a nuclear apocalypse (good for aimpoints... and cockroaches), but has anyone here actually broken an eotech?
> 
> Secondly, is that insane battery life and nuclear survival capability actually worth the crappy sight picture of that ghost of a "dot" that take a year to find before you can shoot anything with it?
> 
> ...



Have you ever carried a rifle into harm's way?  In fact, have you ever carried any weapon into harm's way with a reasonable expectation of needing to use it to defend yourself and others?  When you make posts like this one, you take on the mantle of an expert and from what I can see, you're anything but.



Stormer_117 said:


> So the zero shifts at -1000 degrees Celsius.... Is that really that big of a problem? Just re-zero when you reach Antarctica man!



You don't know what you don't know.



Stormer_117 said:


> A) See above
> B) But everyone can see the Eotech's reticule better. Even people who prefer Aimpoints admit the eotech has a better sight picture. (I've never heard anyone claim otherwise.)



What's your sample size?  What's their experience with both optics?  How did they gain this experience?  There is a reason the M68 is the issued optic for most American combat troops, y'know.



Stormer_117 said:


> I already own one, and I'm willing to sell it and buy and Aimpoint. I just wanna know if it's really worth it...



You need to focus more on technique than on gear.


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## x SF med (Jul 5, 2017)

Eotech story - true, 2 other board members were there.

We went out to shoot, a 2 day affair near Mt Rainier...  2 USMC members, and me.  One had just bought an Eotech from a 'friend'(?)...  and had been through 2x 30 rd M4 mags ...  no paper, not even close at 100m...  the guy is a good shot, most of the time.  1/2 way through his 3rd mag, because (as those of you who know me will attest) I can be a bit of a douche, I uncased, set the tripod, seated a mag, got into position and popped a single round from the FN/FAL Para, taking out the target.  3rd person in the group, just starts laughing his ass off, because first member (CPL no-zero)had jumped up and is kicking the shit out of me... 

2 morals to the story -1. if you estimate it's going to take more than 10 rounds to get on paper, zero alone.  2. Iron sights, when properly employed, are accurate, and accurate is cooler than looking good.

Realized on that day, I would never own an Eotech.


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## Topkick (Jul 5, 2017)

We were issued Eotech in the 101st. This was one of two options, the other being an M68. But this was before anyone heard about all the drift issues. I don't recall that anyone had a problem. Did they actually fix the problem or just issue a notice?


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## Marauder06 (Jul 5, 2017)

We had a choice between EOTech and ACOG.  I chose ACOG but I never had to depend on it for my life.  Several people here have had to depend on what they had.

No, not "everyone" is defrauding our government.  When I find out companies have, I try to avoid steering my business to them.


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## 104TN (Jul 5, 2017)

I had an EXPS3-0 (personal purchase for recreational use). When L3 announced their buyback I took the money. My red dot collection currently consists of a Vortex SPARC, Trijicon MRO, Aimpoint T1, and Leupold LCO. As a civilian/casual shooter that will (hopefully) never need to count on a red dot sight to save my life, I think I liked the EOTech the best. I never had any issues with the auto-shut off feature, the reticle was great, and the integral mount was solid. That said, I wouldn't give EOTech my money again for the reasons several members shared above. For the money, I think the MRO is the best sight on the market right now, though Aimpoint's forthcoming CompM5 could be interesting depending on where the price and quality land.


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## Topkick (Jul 5, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> We had a choice between EOTech and ACOG.  I chose ACOG but I never had to depend on it for my life.  Several people here have had to depend on what they had.
> 
> No, not "everyone" is defrauding our government.  When I find out companies have, I try to avoid steering my business to them.



I've had some experience with the ACOG.        I found it easier to aquire a target with Eotech but if its shit and fraudulent I wouldn't spend a my own money on it.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 5, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Have you ever carried a rifle into harm's way?  In fact, have you ever carried any weapon into harm's way with a reasonable expectation of needing to use it to defend yourself and others?  When you make posts like this one, you take on the mantle of an expert and from what I can see, you're anything but.



?? if I was taking on the "mantle" of an expert, I wouldn't be asking questions... 

p.s. thank you gentlemen for your answers/input.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 5, 2017)

Topkick said:


> I've had some experience with the ACOG.        I found it easier to aquire a target with Eotech but if its shit and fraudulent I wouldn't spend a my own money on it.


When I was making the choice there was no talk about issues with EOTech.  I preferred the ACOG because it allowed me to see further and didn't require batteries.


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## CDG (Jul 5, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> When I was making the choice there was no talk about issues with EOTech.  I preferred the ACOG because it allowed me to see further and didn't require batteries.



I use an ACOG for the same reason.  Gives me another optic I can use quickly, and I don't have to carry yet another set of spare batteries.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 5, 2017)

I wouldnt compare magnified to non-magnified sights though, that's like apples and oranges.


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## 104TN (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> I wouldnt compare magnified to non-magnified sights though, that's like apples and oranges.



Mmm. IDK about that. There are a lot of 1-4/1-6X scopes out there (Bushnell, VX-R and Mark 4 MR/T, AccuPoint, Strike Eagle and Viper PST II, XTR II, etc.) one could make a pretty compelling argument surpass the current field of red dot sights both in terms of capability and value.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> I wouldnt compare magnified to non-magnified sights though, that's like apples and oranges.



Lol. Speaking from your vast repertoire of knowledge?


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 5, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Lol. Speaking from your vast repertoire of knowledge?



If you had a *choice *to clear a room with an ACOG or an Aimpoint/Eotech, would you not choose the latter every time?

I'm just talking about CQB ranges here... courses for horses man... (or is it the other way around?)


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## Marauder06 (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> If you had a *choice *to clear a room with an ACOG or an Aimpoint/Eotech, would you not choose the latter every time?
> 
> *I'm just talking about CQB ranges here.*.. courses for horses man... (or is it the other way around?)



...then you should have led with that.  There's a lot more to preparing for combat than CQB.  The types of engagements I was expecting were longer-range, either out of a helicopter or a truck.  ACOG suited that just fine.  That said, in training I never had any problems using either flip-up sights or the fixed peep sight mounted to the top of the ACOG if I needed to.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 5, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> ...then you should have led with that.  There's a lot more to preparing for combat than CQB.  The types of engagements I was expecting were longer-range, either out of a helicopter or a truck.  ACOG suited that just fine.  That said, in training I never had any problems using either flip-up sights or the fixed peep sight mounted to the top of the ACOG if I needed to.



Fair enough, I should've specified it in the OP, my bad.


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## AWP (Jul 5, 2017)

104TN said:


> Mmm. IDK about that. There are a lot of 1-4/1-6X scopes out there (Bushnell, VX-R and Mark 4 MR/T, AccuPoint, Strike Eagle and Viper PST II, XTR II, etc.) one could make a pretty compelling argument surpass the current field of red dot sights both in terms of capability and value.



Quickly acquiring a target at close range with a 1-x scope just takes some practice. Failing that, run a red dot at a 45 degree angle. I recall an interview with Larry Vickers where he described using only a 1-4x while with his old unit.

(Just a follow up, not calling you out)


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## The Hate Ape (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> If you had a *choice *to clear a room with an ACOG or an Aimpoint/Eotech, would you not choose the latter every time?
> 
> I'm just talking about CQB ranges here... courses for horses man... (or is it the other way around?)



"CQB ranges" like you'd ever be let near one in the first place -

Rather than hate your existence any further, I will suggest that you stop searching on Google for various retarded shit to ask the people who belong here.

Then I want you to stand up and look around the room you are physically in this very moment. 

Hopefully youre alone.

Envision a target entering through an adjacent room and you, armed with a rifle (sadly), raising said rifle undoubtedly with your elbows protruding in an awkward stance / poor shouldering, cheekweld, and trigger control then engaging said target.

You're so fucking close to the target that it doesn't matter if you have an EOTech, an ACOG or a Sims Game green arrow ruby icon / I'm thinking Arby's hat.

You will hit the target. Even you.

Nobody really HATES EOTech. What government uses and purchases personally are two different line items. Nobody stops the war to debate optics in the real world.

Which would I prefer? A close air strike.

You're a weird little shit and I don't like you at all - but the best thing you can personally purchase for either a 5.56 or 7.62 battle rifle is undoubtedly (my opinion) an Elcan quick-adjustable 1x/4x with crystal clear picture, perfect sights with or without battery illumination, fantastic eye relief for fast target acquisition and out of this world reliability.

Buy me one and I'll show you which end of the rifle it goes on.


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## TLDR20 (Jul 5, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> If you had a *choice *to clear a room with an ACOG or an Aimpoint/Eotech, would you not choose the latter every time?
> 
> I'm just talking about CQB ranges here... courses for horses man... (or is it the other way around?)



Man... 

I would never be given that option. No one is really. That is why we have things like magnifiers or doctor sites. I had an eotech on my team gun, served me just fine. I later had an Elcan, because it does both just fine. What do I know though. I've never been on a CQB range, wtf that is...


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## Teufel (Jul 5, 2017)

This response was meant for the double tap thread but it got locked before I could respond to why you can't neglect the head shot. I figured I'd post it here since it seems that while the show may have canceled,  the same cast of characters are appearing here in this thread. 



The Hate Ape said:


> Stop shooting at the face and fire into the upper torso & below the clavical.



There is a reason we shoot people in the face. A shooter may not be able to quickly eliminate a threat that is wearing body armor or hopped up on adrenaline or drugs. I've seen a guy get up and run after being hit in the abdomen with a 50 caliber raufoss round. Granted his kids still collected on his Taliban SGLI policy but it goes to show you that that a shot to the center of mass doesn't always stop your opponent.  Even if that round is an explosive, incendiary, half inch wide miracle bullet filled with death magic. 

This is the concept behind the failure to stop drill. I've also heard it called the Mozambique drill. The face may also be the only exposed target if your adversary is firing at you from behind cover. 

We haven't had to deal with a lot of body armor equipped combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've run into a few but it's far from common. Israel had a very different experience in the   2006 Lebanon war however.  Hezbollah fighters were very well equipped with body armor, night vision devices, and modern communications systems.  You can expect that near peer competitors will field well equipped and armored soldiers.  If some clown doesn't want to go down, then feel free to put two in his chest and 28 to the face.


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## The Hate Ape (Jul 5, 2017)

Teufel said:


> This response was meant for the double tap thread but it got locked before I could respond to why you can't neglect the head shot. I figured I'd post it here since it seems that while the show may have canceled,  the same cast of characters are appearing here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well put. I took to the notion that the poster is placing himself in a domestic scenario and/or functioning within the constraints of his implied shooting ability.

I've never experienced insurgents wearing more than a crappy chest rig - you make a sound point on future adversaries. Couple this with the stark differences in technology and I'm not even sure what this type of warfare would look like anymore.


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## 104TN (Jul 5, 2017)

AWP said:


> Quickly acquiring a target at close range with a 1-x scope just takes some practice. Failing that, run a red dot at a 45 degree angle. I recall an interview with Larry Vickers where he described using only a 1-4x while with his old unit.
> 
> (Just a follow up, not calling you out)



I _think _we're saying the same thing. Taking a 1-4/1-6X scope with an illuminated reticle and dialing it back to 1X essentially turns the optic into an RDS (albeit one with a more crowded field of view).


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## AWP (Jul 5, 2017)

104TN said:


> I _think _we're saying the same thing. Taking a 1-4/1-6X scope with an illuminated reticle and dialing it back to 1X essentially turns the optic into an RDS (albeit one with a more crowded field of view).



Most assuredly. When I was in the market for an optic years ago I looked at Aimpoints and Eotechs with the 3x magnifier. Since I'm setting up that AR for three-gun matches I wanted something with a bit of magnification. After a ton of research and looking at manufacturer's websites, I settled on this, but their older 1-4 model with the same reticle. I also noticed Trijicon, among others, made scopes with large center reticles/ dots.
SWFA SS HD 1-6x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

I haven't shot in over a year, but playing with the scope and my wife's Aimpoint, I thought the learning curve for the Aimpoint was significantly less (no surprise), but there was nothing wrong with the scope if you practiced. Of course, this is a flat one-way range, with no armor, helmet or NVG's, so a military user will probably have different experiences.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 6, 2017)

Teufel said:


> This response was meant for the double tap thread but it got locked before I could respond to why you can't neglect the head shot. I figured I'd post it here since it seems that while the show may have canceled,  the same cast of characters are appearing here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



belt fed bukakke facials always make for great highlight clips.

That, and if fifty dont work, forty usually will...


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## policemedic (Jul 6, 2017)

I've used both Aimpoints and Eotechs (with and without flip-away magnifiers) in military and LE contexts.  The team currently issues Aimpoints and a Surefire light/laser. I'm fine with that whether I'm clearing rooms or on a city street. 

In short, it's the shooter and not the gun/optic--which I believe is what @TLDR20 was saying as well.


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## Ranger Psych (Jul 6, 2017)

I prefer the aimpoints to eotechs personally. 

The fact that Eotech CONCEALED all this...

-Zero shifts of up to 12 MOA at 32 F, and up to 20 MOA at 5 degrees F, despite EoTech’s claims that the HWS could operate in temperatures from -40F to 140F. * big deal! like huge...*
-Severe parallax error as the temperature approached 32 F.
-Dimming of reticle and other problems caused by exposure to humidity, though the optic was represented to be able to operate at 95% humidity indefinitely without problems.
-Some optics which experienced this zero shift were unable to ever re-gain a consistent zero afterwards.  *totally fucking unacceptable*

That list is enough to not get one.  But hey, you are a canadian milsimmer or whatever you are. You don't even live in a country where temperature swings at a day on the range can vary by 50 degrees....o wait.

I don't even think they fixed the problem, and since they lied about it before, I am not apt to accept them saying it is fixed.


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## Devildoc (Jul 6, 2017)

Teufel said:


> You can expect that *near peer competitors* will field well equipped and armored soldiers.



Now that's a great word, more genteel than "booger-eaters."

I was issued an Aimpoint, and an EOTech.  I_ prefer_ the Aimpoint, but never had an issue with the EOTech.  I will shoot with a toilet paper roll for an optic if it works.


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## CDG (Jul 6, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> Which would I prefer? A close air strike.



Yup.  Clear the room?  Hey sir, how about I just put a 114 through the window, or a 38 on delay fuse through the roof? Ok, cool.  I'll let you know when we're weapons away so your guys can get the GoPros out.


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## busdriver (Jul 6, 2017)

OP, stop chasing the latest widget or super ninja technique you read about in some magazine.
If you can't find the "dot" the instant the gun is in front of your face (EoTech, Aimpoint, Truglo, iron sights in reasonable alignment, it doesn't matter) the issue is you need more practice.  Stop blinking when you pull the trigger, and if you really want to buy something that will help you get better, buy a shot timer.


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## policemedic (Jul 6, 2017)

busdriver said:


> OP, stop chasing the latest widget or super ninja technique you read about in some magazine.
> If you can't find the "dot" the instant the gun is in front of your face (EoTech, Aimpoint, Truglo, iron sights in reasonable alignment, it doesn't matter) the issue is you need more practice.  Stop blinking when you pull the trigger, and if you really want to buy something that will help you get better, buy a shot timer.




....or more ammo and a decent class.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 6, 2017)

Man oh man, this thread had me chuckling pretty damn good.

I was one of the biggest supporters of Eotech for about a decade. Personally and professionally used them and recommend them. That started to change after my personal failed me in the middle of a carbine class I was teaching. A well respected member of this board was present when it  happend. Then the dirty secrets came out. Bottom line Eotech put profits above the lives of military service members and law enforcement and that is simply unacceptable.

I no longer support, nor will I ever support Eotech and or recommend them for use in a professional manner.

ETA:  I just read the "double tap" thread. WTF?


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## DocIllinois (Jul 6, 2017)

CDG said:


> Yup.  Clear the room?  Hey sir, how about I just put a 114 through the window, or a 38 on delay fuse through the roof? Ok, cool.  I'll let you know when we're weapons away so your guys can get the GoPros out.



"Was there a use of proportional force part of the ROE on this op.?

Seriously, was there?  I was on this new app.,  Deployr..."


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## Teufel (Jul 6, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> Now that's a great word, more genteel than "booger-eaters.".


A near peer adversary has a similar level of training, equipment, and general military capability.


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## The Hate Ape (Jul 6, 2017)

Yeah like Canadian Mil Sim


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## Queeg (Jul 6, 2017)

Hey guys, what did I miss?


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## AWP (Jul 6, 2017)

Queeg said:


> Hey guys, what did I miss?



Bukkake of awesome.


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## Devildoc (Jul 7, 2017)

Teufel said:


> A near peer adversary has a similar level of training, equipment, and general military capability.



I know, I just appreciate the intellectual growth of the word "bad guy" or "enemy."  I will also use it this fall for football.


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## Teufel (Jul 7, 2017)

Devildoc said:


> I know, I just appreciate the intellectual growth of the word "bad guy" or "enemy."  I will also use it this fall for football.


Enemies come in different flavors. We have been at war for the last 16 years but we haven't fought a near peer competitor since WWII.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 12, 2017)

The Hate Ape said:


> You're a weird little shit and I don't like you at all



The feeling, is mutual, sir.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 12, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I've never been on a CQB range, wtf that is...



"Range" in the distance sense...


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 12, 2017)

busdriver said:


> OP, stop chasing the latest widget or super ninja technique you read about in some magazine.
> If you can't find the "dot" the instant the gun is in front of your face (EoTech, Aimpoint, Truglo, iron sights in reasonable alignment, it doesn't matter) the issue is you need more practice.  Stop blinking when you pull the trigger, and if you really want to buy something that will help you get better, buy a shot timer.



Fair enough, everything requires practice. I was just saying though it's easier to acquire Eotech's reticule then it is to acquire the Aimpoint's red dot. 

In any case, my last two trips at the range did prove to me how important practice and "feel" is, since for the first time I stopped 'feeling' the recoil of my rifle (on a few occasions).... Everything sort of... 'clicked' and I was doing the motions without thinking about it.... I guess that same thing applies to optics as well.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 12, 2017)

Teufel said:


> This response was meant for the double tap thread but it got locked before I could respond to why you can't neglect the head shot. I figured I'd post it here since it seems that while the show may have canceled,  the same cast of characters are appearing here in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's all true sir. Personally though, I just try to aim for the head on paper targets, because of the "aim small, miss small" concept. I switched to center mass on my last couple of trips to the range but once my accuracy improves further with rapid firing drills, I'll switch back to headshots. It's just harder to do and better for practice (and way more fun.)

p.s. I have heard that certain CT units do train for headshots at close ranges for all the reasons you have mentioned, plus the fact that when hostages are involved, and could be used as human shields, the only option might be to land a headshot on your first attempt. I have no idea if Delta/SAS/Devgru actually emphasize headshots or not in their regular training but I would suspect they do. I've heard rumours from a former British soldier that SAS trains exclusively for headshots at their kill house, but I took it with a huge grain of salt, because he wasn't actually SAS himself.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 12, 2017)

Stormer_117 said:


> *I have heard* that certain CT units do train for headshots at close ranges for all the reasons you have mentioned, plus the fact that when hostages are involved, and could be used as human shields, the only option might be to land a headshot on your first attempt. *I have no idea i*f Delta/SAS/Devgru actually emphasize headshots or not in their regular training *but I would suspect* they do. *I've heard rumours *from a former British soldier that SAS trains exclusively for headshots at their kill house, but I took it with a huge grain of salt, because he wasn't actually SAS himself.



Hate for this entire paragraph.  Because your rumors and "he said/she said" add nothing and are a non-factor.


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## DA SWO (Jul 12, 2017)

I have an AimPoint on my house gun and am confident I can see the red dot in the middle of the night.

Leupolds on the hunting rifles. 

Didn't get a good chance to play with our ACOG's.

It's the shooter (as others have said) not the gadget.


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## Stormer_117 (Jul 12, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hate for this entire paragraph.  Because your rumors and "he said/she said" add nothing and are a non-factor.



Right... to be consistent though, you should also add "hate" to the hundred personal attack paragraphs on this thread because they all "add nothing and are a non-factor" 

As long as the "hate" is coming from people who "belong here", it's all good. Right? lolz.


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## Topkick (Jul 12, 2017)

Well, when you respond with "I heard this/ that" you do sort of come across as a wannabe or an airsoft enthusiast. There are other websites and forums for this.


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## Salt USMC (Jul 12, 2017)

As a tier 1 moderator I'm just gonna go ahead and headshot this thread.


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## AWP (Jul 12, 2017)

Salt USMC said:


> As a tier 1 moderator



You are a beautiful man. I'm storing that away for future use.


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