# Land Nav Question



## Deleted member 14175 (Aug 15, 2019)

I know land nav is a pretty big thing in SFAS(but from what I've read on here its really not that hard at all once you know what you're doing) and I was wondering if I really even need to practice it (if even possible) before I ship assuming I go the 18x route. From what I've researched, you get taught and practice land nav in Basic, AIT, and SOPC. 

Shouldn't I be fine if before I go to basic I learn my pace count and the basics and terminology of land nav then just lead whatever group im in during those times to get better and more experience at said land nav?

To clarify what I asked above, Its obvious that if I practice something before I leave ill be better at it if I don't practice, but i'm really even wondering if that necessary.


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## DZ (Aug 15, 2019)

If you aren't able to physically practice before shipping, don't worry about it. Most X-rays don't. The land nav instruction at SFAS is top notch. I would recommend this YouTube series on land nav taught by a former SF guy. It will at least get you used to how MGRS works, how to plot points, shoot azimuths, etc. 

Land Nav


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## CQB (Aug 15, 2019)

You may be lucky & have an orienteering club near where you live. It’s a good introduction to land nav.


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## BloodStripe (Aug 15, 2019)

The military will teach you everything you need to know about being a soldier/sailor/airman/Marine. There is a reason you will be in a training environment for a quarter (or more) of your enlistment. I'd also argue that a lot of people who come in with some type of knowledge often times have bad military habits and are difficult to break of.


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## Box (Aug 16, 2019)

REAL map reading is like "seeing" in the matrix.  When you are looking at a map - initially the contour lines will just look like somebody spilled spaghetti noodles on a sheet of paper.   A lot of what people start out with is nothing more than dead reckoning.  Early on, you will find that you spend a lot of time following your compass and staring at the map like a dog watching a ceiling fan...

As you get more comfortable 'seeing' the terrain, you will realize that the better you can read the map, the less time you will spend staring into your compass and mindlessly counting knots on an old shoestring trying to keep track of your pace count.

Eventually you'll be able to just "follow the edge of this ridgeline until we get to the tip of that valley"
Just PAY ATTENTION to what you are being taught during land nav instruction at SFAS.


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## Gunz (Aug 16, 2019)

DeadZeppelin said:


> If you aren't able to physically practice before shipping, don't worry about it. Most X-rays don't. The land nav instruction at SFAS is top notch. I would recommend this YouTube series on land nav taught by a former SF guy. It will at least get you used to how MGRS works, how to plot points, shoot azimuths, etc.
> 
> Land Nav



Thanks for linking this. This was the only way we had to plot our position and course BITD. It would've been nice to have GPS. I'm watching these  to refresh my memory and skills. Good stuff.


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## DZ (Aug 16, 2019)

Ocoka said:


> Thanks for linking this. This was the only way we had to plot our position and course BITD. It would've been nice to have GPS. I'm watching these  to refresh my memory and skills. Good stuff.


I went to Selection with an LT that said "why do we even need to learn land nav? We have GPS for a reason." Needless to say he didn't get picked up.

Technology fails, there is a reason we learn to navigate with a map and compass.

I'm glad you enjoyed the videos. They helped me before I went to Selection.


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## digrar (Aug 16, 2019)

Box said:


> REAL map reading is like "seeing" in the matrix.



It's like a light bulb moment when you can start reading map to ground.


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## Brill (Aug 17, 2019)

I’m not SF but was taught land nav by the best instructors our tax dollars can buy. SF soldiers are really patient with indig but I know I REALLY pushed their limits: “did you eat paint chips as a kid?”  The Navy doesn’t land nav so when an E-7 showed up not knowing skill level one stuff, well you can imagine.

I like to know “why” and “what’s this for” so perhaps the very basics would help the newbs like I was.  I liked these vids:

Map Reading - YouTube


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## bb08 (Aug 29, 2019)

I'm shooting for REP 63. Unlike 18x, the 19th doesn't send guys to OSUT anymore. It's basic, AIT, Airborne, then SOPC before SFAS. The feeder MOS' look like land nav isn't part of AIT. 

So from this standpoint, would a REP 63 guy need to prepare for land nav more than 18x or will basic and SOPC be sufficient?


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## DZ (Aug 29, 2019)

My feeder MOS for 19th Group was super pogue, didn't do any land nav.

Search the forum for some links to land nav videos that have been posted to get yourself familiar. SOPC and SFAS will have plenty of instruction and practice for you.


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## MikeDelta (Aug 30, 2019)

Lots of great advice you’ve received, for obvious reasons. If you look closely you can see a pattern here.

1) There is the right way, the wrong way and the Army way. In other words you’ll be trained on what you need to know. But you’ll need to study. This goes for land nav, language, SUT, BRM, whatever.

2) Only perfect practice makes perfect. So, if you choose a bad training source before training and learn something you’ll need to unlearn...Well, that will suck very badly for you, especially on a timed course and they’re all timed.

As it was mentioned on this thread, a basic familiarization of terrain features and a protractor is a good starting point. Plenty of current FMs out there. 

I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of the service members here didn’t know very much about land nav before shipping, let alone what a protractor was. But they learned it in training. 

Good luck.


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## Devildoc (Aug 30, 2019)

Watch_out_Ops said:


> I know land nav is a pretty big thing in SFAS(but from what I've read on here its really not that hard at all once you know what you're doing) and I was wondering if I really even need to practice it (if even possible) before I ship assuming I go the 18x route. From what I've researched, you get taught and practice land nav in Basic, AIT, and SOPC.
> 
> Shouldn't I be fine if before I go to basic I learn my pace count and the basics and terminology of land nav then just lead whatever group im in during those times to get better and more experience at said land nav?
> 
> To clarify what I asked above, Its obvious that if I practice something before I leave ill be better at it if I don't practice, but i'm really even wondering if that necessary.



It's NOT hard once you know what you are doing.  Nothing is hard once you know what you are doing.  It's a skill; anyone can learn it.  But it takes practice to perfect it.  I LOVE the matrix analogy, because it's true.  When the map, compass, and ground all become zen-like and one with one another, it's almost stupid-easy.

That said....plenty of people show up having never done it, and they excel.  IF you can be ahead of the game, then sure; if not, then trust the process.


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## CQB (Sep 11, 2019)

lindy said:


> I’m not SF but was taught land nav by the best instructors our tax dollars can buy. SF soldiers are really patient with indig but I know I REALLY pushed their limits: “did you eat paint chips as a kid?”  The Navy doesn’t land nav so when an E-7 showed up not knowing skill level one stuff, well you can imagine.
> 
> I like to know “why” and “what’s this for” so perhaps the very basics would help the newbs like I was.  I liked these vids:
> 
> Map Reading - YouTube


Loved the vids, differentiating between the features. When I was starting out learning about contours, for our first lesson the instructor used a Playboy Centrefold as an aide: pointing to peaks, ridges, valleys etc. still remember it, funny that.


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## John.warren (Oct 31, 2019)

The videos are great !

Have any of you read this book. Need to brush up before SFRE

Land Nav: Basic to Advanced (WLC, ALC, SLC, Ranger, Special Forces, Delta Selection)


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## Gunz (Oct 31, 2019)

I have an old Army FM 21-26 _Map Reading and Navigation _published in '93. I picked it up a long time ago at the MacDill BX to sharpen the memory. But the videos posted by @DZ are a lot more interesting.


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## Grunt (Oct 31, 2019)

This may be the updated one @Gunz

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-25-26.pdf

As a Leatherneck, I could never forget the importance of the Land Nav MCI....


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## Gunz (Nov 1, 2019)

Vagabond said:


> This may be the updated one @Gunz
> 
> https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-25-26.pdf
> 
> As a Leatherneck, I could never forget the importance of the Land Nav MCI....



Agoge, gottdammit, you changed your name again.


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## Grunt (Nov 1, 2019)

Gunz said:


> Agoge, gottdammit, you changed your name again.



Yes sir, but I am done with the changes now. I found one that fits....


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## ecag (Nov 16, 2019)

Pay attention in basic, take the land nav in the prep course seriously, pay attention in the classes they give at SFAS, and take the practicals seriously and you should be fine. I hadn’t done any real or challenging land nav in years and did just fine.


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