# Covid-19



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 23, 2020)

I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Inside the Chinese lab poised to study world's most dangerous pathogens


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## Brill (Jan 23, 2020)

i need new glasses: thought this was free beer related.

Corona For Us


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 23, 2020)

China's top virus lab is in Wuhan, the center of the outbreak

Scientists warned in 2017 that a SARS-like virus could escape a lab set up that year in Wuhan, China, to study some of the most dangerous pathogens in the world.


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## Brill (Jan 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...to study some of the most dangerous pathogens in the world.



WTF????


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## SpitfireV (Jan 23, 2020)

lindy said:


> WTF????



...everyone does this to some extent.


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## AWP (Jan 23, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> ...everyone does this to some extent.



Very true.


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## AlexSmir (Jan 24, 2020)

They seem to step the same rake we stepped in 1979... Some noob took away a filter for the maintenance and forgot to write it down to the register... Some other guy didn't check the system and engaged the lab's machinery. Around 100 deaths occured in two months:)


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## Devildoc (Jan 24, 2020)

Where I work is "tip of the spear" for surveillance on any diseases coming from China.  Our hospital is looped in to the CDC and HHS.  We've gotten...5 emails about this?  Our leadership also does a good job of putting stuff in context; i.e., "this is worse than X because....".  Bottom line, this virus is no bueno.


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## Gunz (Jan 24, 2020)

They used to do it at Ft Detrick, didn't they?


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## Devildoc (Jan 24, 2020)

Gunz said:


> They used to do it at Ft Detrick, didn't they?



Study and manipulate bugs?  Yes, they still do.  Also CDC in Atlanta, and a couple other labs invested in a public-private partnership.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 24, 2020)

Thought I'd share a video that's supposedly leaked out of Wuhan. Basically people packed into hospital halls, medical technicians in the bio suits, and covered bodies in the hall with patients. Some of the comments are pretty chilling too.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220641000063848448
Another one showing the lines to the hospital.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220375690047918080


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## Devildoc (Jan 24, 2020)

This, in an email this afternoon from our leadership:

"On January 23, 2020, we identified an individual who recently traveled to China and met the criteria symptomatic of respiratory illness. In an abundance of caution, we placed this person under our care for further evaluation and testing. The testing is being conducted by an external facility, and we expect to have the results in a timely manner.

For the safety of our patients and team members, we have implemented the appropriate infection control precautions to avoid the spread of the potential virus. While we await the results from the test, the patient is being cared for in a contained and isolated unit by volunteers from our infectious disease team who are specially trained in the treatment of patients with novel viruses."

Now, the probability is very, very high that it is 'just' one of the other, million less-severe airborne bugs, but they ain't playing.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 24, 2020)

I feel like I’ve seen this movie.

It always ends with Zombies.


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## Devildoc (Jan 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I feel like I’ve seen this movie.
> 
> It always ends with Zombies.



World War Z.  One of my faves.  I watch it like it's a documentary.


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## Totentanz (Jan 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I feel like I’ve seen this movie.
> 
> It always ends with Zombies.



Good thing I've been practicing headshots.

@Devildoc thanks for the updates.

Fucking Chinese can't innovate anything without ripping off foreign IP... until it comes to infectious disease.  Way to go.


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## Kraut783 (Jan 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I feel like I’ve seen this movie.
> 
> It always ends with Zombies.



Whew...about time!  Hope my 300blk Suppressor arrives in time.

Looks like a confirmed case at Texas A&M University in College Station, TX. Big Chinese student population there.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article239576813.html


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## Brill (Jan 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> Very true.



C’mon man. You’re telling me if the Air Force was manipulating viruses, you’d be doing it too?

Never mind.


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## LibraryLady (Jan 24, 2020)

What keeps running through my head as I hear reports from China is, how accurate is this information they are supplying to the rest of the world?

LL


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## CQB (Jan 24, 2020)

They seem to have learnt from SARS where they tried to not frighten the horses & had lax border controls. Looks like this time the quarantine procedures have been implemented early. They’ve isolated about 13 cities so far. Also, bad as it is, is it potentially as bad as SARS?


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## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2020)

2 bio warfare lab's in the region, must be just a coincidence. 

Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program


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## Cookie_ (Jan 25, 2020)

CQB said:


> They seem to have learnt from SARS where they tried to not frighten the horses & had lax border controls. Looks like this time the quarantine procedures have been implemented early. They’ve isolated about 13 cities so far. Also, bad as it is, is it potentially as bad as SARS?



Nobody is really sure right now how bad this particular strain is because if it still being early/Chinese media lockdowns. 

Right now it's on track to be comparable to SARS, but the fear is it might become more like MERS.

How Does Wuhan Coronavirus Compare With MERS, SARS And The Common Cold?


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## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2020)

1000 cases in China now.

"China’s National Health Commission said late Saturday there are 1,372 confirmed cases in the country, and that 41 people have died. It reported 237 severe cases. New cases were reported in the Asia Pacific region."

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?


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## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2020)




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## ThunderHorse (Jan 25, 2020)

So State is trying to get all US Citizens out of Wuhan...https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-department-confirms-evacuation-flight-from-wuhan-11580012055?mod=e2tw

But um...considering what is going on, I'm not sure we should even let these folks board.  Considering the situation in China is getting insane, I'm surprised a plane would even be allowed to take off.


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## GOTWA (Jan 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So State is trying to get all US Citizens out of Wuhan...https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-department-confirms-evacuation-flight-from-wuhan-11580012055?mod=e2tw
> 
> But um...considering what is going on, I'm not sure we should even let these folks board.  Considering the situation in China is getting insane, I'm surprised a plane would even be allowed to take off.



Hope they use a big plane. Gonna get mighty uncomfortable sitting on the tarmac for a week in a correntined aircraft.


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## DA SWO (Jan 26, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Whew...about time!  Hope my 300blk Suppressor arrives in time.
> 
> Looks like a confirmed case at Texas A&M University in College Station, TX. Big Chinese student population there.
> 
> https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article239576813.html


case #1, #2 is at Baylor waiting to be confirmed, and they are not saying where #3 may be at.
This will be interesting to watch.


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## chickenrappa (Jan 26, 2020)

Confirmed case in the City of Chicago last night. I think it might be time to splurge on a hazmat suit.


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## Butthead (Jan 26, 2020)

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't have my coronavirus without Lyme Disease.


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## Butthead (Jan 26, 2020)

All jokes aside, this all seems a little fishy to me. 

I'm not going to say there is any foul play here, however, a few things make me raise a few eyebrows. 

The first being that only Hong Kong has declared a state of emergency. The WHO says this is NOT an international health emergency, even though there are 12 countries with CONFIRMED infections. (According to Which countries have confirmed cases of new coronavirus? ) 

The most infections are in China of course. Disregarding the obvious overpopulation problem and its immediate and future consequences ( Population Control and Consequences in China ) Hong Kong is the ONLY country so far that has declared a state of emergency, despite only having 5 confirmed cases. I'm sure you all know what is going on in Hong Kong. This is interesting to me simply because does declaring this "state of emergency" allow them more freedom to terrorize their protesters more? Who knows. 

I'm not saying that there is ANY foul play going on. However, it is thought provoking. 
Not trying to overstep any boundaries here, if out of line, admin feel free to remove.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 26, 2020)

Butthead said:


> All jokes aside, this all seems a little fishy to me.
> 
> I'm not going to say there is any foul play here, however, a few things make me raise a few eyebrows.
> 
> ...



Minor point:  I don’t think Hong Kong is a country.


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## Butthead (Jan 26, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Minor point:  I don’t think Hong Kong is a country.


Valid point. Misspoke while trying to convey the bigger the point.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 26, 2020)

Found a neat video of Wuhan, thought I'd share. It's interesting how people are coping with the quarantine and how daily habits have changed.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 26, 2020)

Probably in this context you could consider it akin to its own country since it's geographically separate and has border controls.


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## Devildoc (Jan 26, 2020)

Wuhan has 11 million people.  It's freaking huge, and does not even a top five in terms of population in China. And it is very densely packed. Any bug like this, that is a perfect and fertile breeding ground.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 26, 2020)

So I was talking to a guy who works in HSE for Oceaneering the current R0 factor they have for the virus is between 2.8 and 3.6  That's what they've found so far.  Fatality rate of confirmed infections seems to be 4% at the moment.  The R0 factor of Ebola is 2.0 and the R0 for HIV is 4.0.  Considering the dense population of Chinese cities and Wuhan this could get bad realllll quick.  Unlike with SARS, China seems to have taken a lot of action.  But there are Coronavirus cases popping all over.


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## pardus (Jan 26, 2020)

5 confirmed cases in the USA now, located in AZ, CA, IL, WA.

CDC Coronavirus


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## DA SWO (Jan 26, 2020)

pardus said:


> 5 confirmed cases in the USA now, located in AZ, CA, IL, WA.
> 
> CDC Coronavirus


Add Texas


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## Butthead (Jan 27, 2020)

Don't be surprised if this turns out to be a biological WMD. Seems almost like two viruses in one.
So far only seems to be killing people with prior issues (URI, heart problems, etc.) However, this is all based upon what China is telling us and reporting. 

I feel like there is a ton of information NOT being told to us. Multiple "whistleblowers" and twitter "journalists" are publishing videos showing large amounts of dead bodies and are reporting closer to 90,000 infected. 

Everyone wash your hands 20 times after everything.


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## Bambi (Jan 27, 2020)

Two bioweapon labs just so happen to be in Wuhan? And they’ve ruled out bioterrorism fairy quickly.. a friend pointed out that coronavirus is bad news for HK Protestors. Not saying it’s directly related but it is in play due to China desperately wanting it (protests) to end.


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## Butthead (Jan 27, 2020)

Bambi said:


> China desperately wanting it (protests) to end.


Was my initial thought. Considering it seems to only be killing (that we know of) people with previous or underlying ailments, it may be some kind of weaker strain that China is trying to test out on the population? Some sort of weakened strain for crowd control? A horrible thought, but something that could turn up being true eventually. 
Only time will tell now.


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## Kaldak (Jan 27, 2020)

Global markets are getting rocked. The lack of travel and shopping in China is mainly the cause. Also, the closing of manufacturing plants now that China extended the Lunar New Year holiday.

You may not be infected, but everyone is starting to affected.


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## Isiah6:8 (Jan 27, 2020)

Butthead said:


> Don't be surprised if this turns out to be a biological WMD. Seems almost like two viruses in one.
> So far only seems to be killing people with prior issues (URI, heart problems, etc.) However, this is all based upon what China is telling us and reporting.



I don't think this is a biological WMD at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a virus being worked on that got out of a facility.  My viewpoint is if it was a WMD, then the mortality and morbidity rates would be higher.  Now, if the viral pathogen is supposed to sit in the host and then waiting for another trigger released that mutates this into something very deadly with a higher rate, that thought scares the absolute hell out of me.


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## Bambi (Jan 27, 2020)

China is capable of doing this to its own people. Don’t forget about the Uyghur camps. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a biological weapon being tested that somehow got out on purpose or by mistake.


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## Florida173 (Jan 28, 2020)

GMU confirms student being tested for coronavirus

This is fun..


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## SpitfireV (Jan 28, 2020)

Bambi said:


> China is capable of doing this to its own people. Don’t forget about the Uyghur camps. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a biological weapon being tested that somehow got out on purpose or by mistake.



These are Han people. Are yourself one question: Why? Why would they test this on such an uncontrolled level? This isn't something new, it's a variation of an already known virus. China is, scientifically, a first world country. They don't need human subjects these days since medical science is so well understood. And if they did why wouldn't they do it in somewhere third world where they don't have to deal with the consequences?


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## Raksasa Kotor (Jan 28, 2020)

Bambi said:


> Two bioweapon labs just so happen to be in Wuhan? And they’ve ruled out bioterrorism fairy quickly.. a friend pointed out that coronavirus is bad news for HK Protestors. Not saying it’s directly related but it is in play due to China desperately wanting it (protests) to end.





Butthead said:


> Was my initial thought. Considering it seems to only be killing (that we know of) people with previous or underlying ailments, it may be some kind of weaker strain that China is trying to test out on the population? Some sort of weakened strain for crowd control? A horrible thought, but something that could turn up being true eventually.
> Only time will tell now.





Bambi said:


> China is capable of doing this to its own people. Don’t forget about the Uyghur camps. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a biological weapon being tested that somehow got out on purpose or by mistake.



1. Speculation like this is not helpful. I'm not staff here, but I would recommend you stick to facts and informed discussion thereof lest this place turn into some kind of high school slumber party.

2. Understand that even the news is selling a product - and that product is you. The more they stoke your fears, the more time you spend watching/clicking. More time & clicks = more advertising dollars.

3. Context is everything: This Past Flu Season Was the Longest in 10 Years, the CDC Says

From the above linked article:

"In total, the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died. That’s fairly on par with a typical season, and well below the CDC’s 2017-2018 estimates of 48.8 million illnesses, 959,000 hospitalizations and 79,400 deaths."

Do you recall mass hysteria during the 2018-19 flu season? Neither do I.


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## AWP (Jan 28, 2020)

It is bad enough the political threads drove me away for a few days, now I have to read some of the batshit craziest, tin foil wearingist, rootin', tootin', shootin' nonsense north, south, east, and wesssst of the Pecos.

Some things are just Ikea furniture: you pull them out of the box, follow the instructions, and boom! You have a desk. Some of you toss the instructions and grab a mallet plus some 10 penny nails and voila! A beach blanket.


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## GOTWA (Jan 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> It is bad enough the political threads drove me away for a few days, now I have to read some of the batshit craziest, tin foil wearingist, rootin', tootin', shootin' nonsense north, south, east, and wesssst of the Pecos.
> 
> Some things are just Ikea furniture: you pull them out of the box, follow the instructions, and boom! You have a desk. Some of you toss the instructions and grab a mallet plus some 10 penny nails and voila! A beach blanket.


American Gods is a great show. Their premise of fear is relevant to this whole ordeal. When people fear, they panic, and that panic spreads. That fear becomes truth when in fact it was never real to begin with.


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## Gunz (Jan 28, 2020)

And it's the media's job, online or off, to spread panic. Ratings, hits and revenue increase proportionate to the amount of fear generated.


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## GOTWA (Jan 28, 2020)

Gunz said:


> And it's the media's job, online or off, to spread panic. Ratings, hits and revenue increase proportionate to the amount of fear generated.



Media is surely to blame for the mass hysteria of...everything, but so are our elected officials. You can see that through our political threads. And guess what, even people of this community latch onto it. I know I'm guilty. Ultimately, fear is power, and power is control.


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## Devildoc (Jan 28, 2020)

We have closed down our China branch of our school.  While I think it's just common sense, it made national news:

Duke University students in China encouraged to go home amid coronavirus outbreak: report


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## RackMaster (Jan 28, 2020)

Canada's working on a fix. 

A lab in Canada has begun work on a coronavirus vaccine


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> World War Z.  One of my faves.  I watch it like it's a documentary.



Wait...it isn’t?


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2020)

Butthead said:


> Was my initial thought. Considering it seems to only be killing (that we know of) people with previous or underlying ailments, it may be some kind of weaker strain that China is trying to test out on the population? Some sort of weakened strain for crowd control? A horrible thought, but something that could turn up being true eventually.
> Only time will tell now.



Dude, enough with the conspiracy theory nonsense.  It’s not helping when people need actual, reliable information. 

By the way, you posted an opinion that this seems like two viruses in one. What kind of background do you have in microbiology or virology to support that?


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## Butthead (Jan 28, 2020)

policemedic said:


> By the way, you posted an opinion that this seems like two viruses in one. What kind of background do you have in microbiology or virology to support that?


I in no way intended to come across as a medical professional or any kind of qualified individual in any form of science. 
I just stated it seemed like two virus in one in the way it appeared to behave as well as what "whistleblower" reports were saying. 

Like I stated, I meant 0 disrespect or any intent to misinform and cause mass-hysteria. I will cease all interaction on the board unless it is stated from a credible, factual source. Apologies to all parties involved.


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2020)

Butthead said:


> I in no way intended to come across as a medical professional or any kind of qualified individual in any form of science.
> I just stated it seemed like two virus in one in the way it appeared to behave as well as what "whistleblower" reports were saying.
> 
> Like I stated, I meant 0 disrespect or any intent to misinform and cause mass-hysteria. I will cease all interaction on the board unless it is stated from a credible, factual source. Apologies to all parties involved.



I’m not staff, and I’m not officially chastising you. I’m just asking you to think, that’s all.


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## Kaldak (Jan 28, 2020)

CDC says the Rick to Americans in the US is very low.

Don't get click bait,

Just Google it.


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## GOTWA (Jan 28, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Now 131 wasn’t it just 109 yesterday? How bad is this should I be worried?  Twitter


There's 7.5 billion people in the world, with 1.4 billion in China. Let's not freak out over 5 people infected in the US. Let's take a second to remember the scare of Ebola, then it fell off the news cycle after elections...

I feel like @amlove21 and his fight against deep state theories.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 29, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> CDC says the Rick to Americans in the US is very low.
> 
> Don't get click bait,
> 
> Just Google it.



Well...that's not what's going down man.  White House told airlines they may cancel flights to China.  White House tells airlines it may suspend all China-US flights amid coronavirus outbreak


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## Bambi (Jan 29, 2020)

I did not mean to contribute to any theory I was spitballing my insane shower thoughts and did not mean to represent them as fact. Any further engagement on this, or any fact driven thread will be done appropriately with sources to back up new information.


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## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jan 29, 2020)

Don't forget there were 34,157 deaths from the flu in the United States in 2018, a pretty normal year.

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC


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## Polar Bear (Jan 29, 2020)

Acclaimed Harvard Scientist Is Arrested, Accused Of Lying About Ties To China


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## Earned-not-given (Jan 29, 2020)

The formating got messed up, above. 

"Dr. Lieber was one of three scientists to be charged with crimes on Tuesday."

"The third was Yanqing Ye, who had been conducting research at Boston University’s department of physics, chemistry and biomedical engineering until last spring, when she returned to China. Prosecutors said she hid the fact that she was a lieutenant in the People’s Liberation Army, and continued to carry out assignments from Chinese military officers while at B.U."


U.S. Accuses Harvard Scientist of Concealing Chinese Funding


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## SaintKP (Jan 29, 2020)

Funny how everyone forgets the fear mongering by the media that occurred with Ebola, yet it was completely insignificant in terms of deaths caused for those two years.

If you want information go to either the CDC or WHO. They don't derive their income from how many clicks a headline brings.


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## AWP (Jan 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Funny how everyone forgets the fear mongering by the media that occurred with Ebola, yet it was completely insignificant in terms of deaths caused for those two years.
> 
> If you want information go to either the CDC or WHO. They don't derive their income from how many clicks a headline brings.



People shouldn't let basic facts get in the way of good old-fashioned hysteria.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 29, 2020)

Who knows where we're at right now.  China has been much more responsive to this than they were of SARS-cov.  However, this shit is serious.  

China has now surpassed the SARV-cov cases they had.  Coronavirus news and live updates: Wuhan coronavirus cases top 7,000 - CNN


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## SpitfireV (Jan 29, 2020)

At the start of it they were running an old gameplay and trying to keep the whole thing under wraps like they did with SARS and bird flu. It's not so easy these days even with all their censorship technology at hand. Maybe that contributed to things, I don't know; I'm not a doctor.


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## Earned-not-given (Jan 30, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> At the start of it they were running an old gameplay and trying to keep the whole thing under wraps like they did with SARS and bird flu. It's not so easy these days even with all their censorship technology at hand. Maybe that contributed to things, I don't know; I'm not a doctor.


I think it did. I remember at the start of the outbreak when the published number was around 300ish, seeing a report that some infectious outbreak specialist believed the number was as high as 4000, but that the government was trying to cover up and contain the damage


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## Devildoc (Jan 30, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Funny how everyone forgets the fear mongering by the media that occurred with Ebola, yet it was completely insignificant in terms of deaths caused for those two years.
> 
> If you want information go to either the CDC or WHO. They don't derive their income from how many clicks a headline brings.



Ebola is passe, so 2, 2 1/2 years ago.  The MSM has stopped letting people know it is still going on, In Kivu and Ituri provinces in the DRC, killing over 2,000 people.  I guess it isn't sexy anymore.


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## Gunz (Jan 30, 2020)

This is my response to the corona virus, terrorism, global warming, the comet, federal income tax...and many of you.


And when I'm really amped up about armageddon, I take the shotglass of bourbon and drop it in the glass of beer. I call it a Depth Bomb.


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## Devildoc (Jan 30, 2020)

Gunz said:


> This is my response to the corona virus, terrorism, global warming, the comet, federal income tax...and many of you.
> 
> View attachment 31816
> And when I'm really amped up about armageddon, I take the shotglass of bourbon and drop it in the glass of beer. I call it a Depth Bomb.



Isn't that a boilermaker?  Or are you going by the letter of the liquor law with bourbon instead and calling it something else?

In any case, put me down for about 5 of those bad boys....


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 30, 2020)

Note to self, when the big ugly red blotches show up in North America....then maybe I worry a titch....

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Funny how everyone forgets the fear mongering by the media that occurred with Ebola, yet it was completely insignificant in terms of deaths caused for those two years.
> 
> If you want information go to either the CDC or WHO. They don't derive their income from how many clicks a headline brings.



Back to this, officially declared Global Health Emergency by WHO: 
Coronavirus Live Updates: W.H.O. Declares a Global Health Emergency


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 30, 2020)

Have stumbled across some pretty poignant videos of how things are deteriorating in Wuhan. I'm not being a negative Nancy or pessimist Paul here, but I also don't trust the numbers the PRC is putting out. Considering the desperation in the videos coming out of Wuhan and what people are risking to speak out, I think it's intellectually dishonest to call what we are seeing as fearmongering.











Food for thought.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2020)

CDC just confirmed the first P2P transmission in the US.

2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)


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## AWP (Jan 30, 2020)

The last I heard, the 4 in the UAE were from a single family allowed to travel from Wuhan AFTER the alleged travel ban from said city. The last part could be bad info, but it was in one news outlet here. Maybe thy got out on one of the last flights? I dunno.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 30, 2020)

AWP said:


> The last I heard, the 4 in the UAE were from a single family allowed to travel from Wuhan AFTER the alleged travel ban from said city. The last part could be bad info, but it was in one news outlet here. Maybe thy got out on one of the last flights? I dunno.



When the ban was first put in place and they cut off the trains there were people operating that could move you about for the low low price of 2000RMB to get you to a different suburb. I'm not totally sure who they were but my source implied (or rather, I inferred) local government types. That would make sense since I'd imagine only local, provincial and national level people could move about.


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## policemedic (Jan 31, 2020)

Here's the take home.  In simple numbers, even with the last update to the JHU map, the death rate is about 2%.  Another way of looking at that is 98% have been surviving.  Those who have died have had co-morbid factors, or have not had access to the best healthcare resources.

Same-same with ebola.  It kills people in Africa, not so much in America.

This may mutate and become a bigger issue, but right now there are other diseases that are more worrisome.

If you replaced 2019-nCoV with the word influenza, the numbers would indicate a tremendously good year.  Think about that; it lends perspective.

@Ooh-Rah good catch on the map.  That's what I monitor at work; it stays active on my desktop in the office.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 31, 2020)

It, like most similar afflictions, send to kill the poor and unhealthy in countries that are not very medically advanced.
I’m far less worried about this disease hitting the US than I am about what it might do to a poor, unhealthy, authoritarian government far closer to China.


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## AWP (Jan 31, 2020)

God, if there was ever a time to reveal your existence it is through the cleansing power of coronavirus in Karachi and Islamabad...


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## Devildoc (Jan 31, 2020)

AWP said:


> God, if there was ever a time to reveal your existence it is through the cleansing power of coronavirus in Karachi and Islamabad...



You know, that really wouldn't be very difficult to make happen. Just sayin'.


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## Gunz (Jan 31, 2020)

Some timely tips:

1. Let's all wash our hands and cover our mouths when we cough or sneeze. 

2. Guns kill more people than corona viruses do.

3. When stepping on the brake, your life is in your foot's hands.


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## Devildoc (Jan 31, 2020)

Gunz said:


> Some timely tips:
> 
> 1. Let's all wash our hands and cover our mouths when we cough or sneeze.
> 
> ...



I think statistically The Clintons have killed more people than this virus (OPINION, no corroborating facts )


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## CQB (Jan 31, 2020)

Anyone for Yum Cha? Based on the fear factor I reckon the service will be better than normal.


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## DA SWO (Jan 31, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Here's the take home.  In simple numbers, even with the last update to the JHU map, the death rate is about 2%.  Another way of looking at that is 98% have been surviving.  Those who have died have had co-morbid factors, or have not had access to the best healthcare resources.
> 
> Same-same with ebola.  It kills people in Africa, not so much in America.
> 
> ...


Slight disagreement.
Your looking at total cases vs deaths.
Looking at Deaths vs Recovered the numbers (maybe) as of 30 Jan 2130 EST shows 213 deaths and 187 recovered.  That would imply a higher lethality, plus I don't trust China to report an accurate death toll.


----------



## Earned-not-given (Jan 31, 2020)

US Gov announces first quarantine since 1960s. The government will hold all people who recently returned from Wuhan at a Air Force base in California for 14 days. A level 4 travel advisory the highest level possible was issued for China, as American, Delta, United cancel all flights to mainland China.

also Russia and the UK experienced their first cases

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...a-b503-2b077c436617_story.html?outputType=amp


----------



## policemedic (Jan 31, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Slight disagreement.
> Your looking at total cases vs deaths.
> Looking at Deaths vs Recovered the numbers (maybe) as of 30 Jan 2130 EST shows 213 deaths and 187 recovered.  That would imply a higher lethality, plus I don't trust China to report an accurate death toll.



I'll grant you China may be skewing the numbers for various reasons.  

Right now, the number of recovered is outpacing deaths.  That's a good thing. But the pace at which people recover isn't so much a measure of mortality as it is other things.  Additionally, while recovered seems to be a clear term, it may not be.  I'm trying to track down the definition JHU is using.  It could mean many things.

Currently the death rate per 100K in China secondary to 2019-nCoV is 0.015.  That's using the population estimate in the CIA Fact Book.  There have been no deaths in the US.  All the deaths have been in Mainland China.  There could be a number of reasons for that, as well.  They were ground zero, so it makes sense they would be hit the hardest.  We may be benefiting from the initial epidemiological work done by the Chinese.

I'm just trying to keep this in perspective and inject a wee bit of science to dispel some of the unsubstantiated rumint.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2020)

...seems legit!  IKIS

*Entire US Marine Corps Deployed To Fight Cononavirus, After Scientists Discover Alcohol Kills It*


"While alcoholism does indeed have major downsides, such as kidney failure, career-ending bad decisions, and the constant risk of waking up one morning chained in matrimony to a 300-pound dependapotamus, it turns out there are some real benefits when it comes to fighting the coronavirus."


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 2, 2020)




----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 2, 2020)

The place on the left is in Shanghai. It's nowhere near Wuhan. The virus didn't originate there.


----------



## GOTWA (Feb 3, 2020)

This is a simple case of IP theft, just like everything else China has.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 3, 2020)

Well that’s a relief. But, at this point it is still kind of weird. I know people who are tracking the progress of this bug... they are more than a bit concerned. Because we still do not have a BSL-4 transport capability. Should this thing adapt and mutate. 
The virus doesn’t care where it came from. Shanghai or Wuhan, who cares. The Chinese have one of the most active offensive bio weapons programs on the planet. 
The post was just to draw awareness to that. 
Biological agents are seldom released where they are developed. Unless there is a breach in the containment protocol.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 3, 2020)

The post is not the point.


----------



## CQB (Feb 3, 2020)

By the end of March it may be over.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> By the end of March it may be over.


What leads you to believe. That this will burn out by the end of March? Do you have some kind of epidemiological survey. That shows the incubation period. Prior to the subject being fully symptomatic. 
Because that is the most dangerous phase of a viral outbreak. When you have vectors that are carrying contagion. While also spreading the virus. All the while not realizing they are infected.


----------



## CQB (Feb 3, 2020)

The PRC have been there before & this time have reacted better to the threat. This is your field, so what are your prognostications?


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 4, 2020)

Cat is out of the bag already. Unknown number of vectors already outside of any type containment procedures. 
I see this becoming very bad.  
High order pandemic. That will have near catastrophic effects on populations susceptible to respiratory ailments. 
Already strained medical infrastructure will be taxed to limits. That could cause a panic in affected population areas. 
Once something is airborne transmissible. The rate of spread increases exponentially. 
Population centers would not be my first choice of places to wait this out. 
Lastly, latest check has over 20,000 known infected on mainland China. 
How many unknown others could possibly be infected and on the move? 
I could go on forever with the possible scenarios. 
At this point I would be watching closely for any updates from the WHO. 

Wash your hands🤗


----------



## Bambi (Feb 4, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> Cat is out of the bag already. Unknown number of vectors already outside of any type containment procedures.
> I see this becoming very bad.
> High order pandemic. That will have near catastrophic effects on populations susceptible to respiratory ailments.
> Already strained medical infrastructure will be taxed to limits. That could cause a panic in affected population areas.
> ...


The WHO has situation reports listed on their website for this virus, I have it bookmarked and check it every 2-3 days.


----------



## Bambi (Feb 4, 2020)

Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) situation reports 

There is the link for anyone interested.


----------



## Butthead (Feb 4, 2020)

First outside of China death is reported in the Phillipines. 
So far since Jan. 21, we've gone from 282 confirmed cases to 20,630 with 3,241 just in the past 24 hours. 
Is it time to start getting worried? Should I start washing my hands or can I just continue to use hand sanitizer?


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 4, 2020)

Wash with vodka. Alcohol kills it.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 4, 2020)

Butthead said:


> First outside of China death is reported in the Phillipines.
> So far since Jan. 21, we've gone from 282 confirmed cases to 20,630 with 3,241 just in the past 24 hours.
> Is it time to start getting worried? Should I start washing my hands or can I just continue to use hand sanitizer?



Public health 101--wash your hands.  Frequently.  With soap (but not antibacterial soap).  When you think you're done, continue washing your hands.  Use hand sanitizers when soap and water are not available.  

This PSA applies regardless of 2019-nCoV.


----------



## SaintKP (Feb 4, 2020)

policemedic said:


> This PSA applies regardless of 2019-nCoV.




People are filthy. Want proof? Just listen for how many people wash their hands when they think no ones looking.


----------



## Board and Seize (Feb 4, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> *People are filthy*. Want proof? Just listen for how many people wash their hands when they think no ones looking.


Says the guy hiding in public bathrooms (rest stops?) so he can "listen" to everyone else in there...


----------



## SaintKP (Feb 4, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> Says the guy hiding in public bathrooms (rest stops?) so he can "listen" to everyone else in there...




Fair point lmao,  you'd do great on the political circuit.

All I'm saying is if I'm sitting there dropping a deuce and a half and I hear peter piss hands not wash his hands. You bet it's a little disconcerting.


----------



## CQB (Feb 5, 2020)

Sometimes the prosaic wins

What a photo of a drunk Chinese man in Seoul says about coronavirus fears


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 5, 2020)

*Tencent may have accidentally leaked real data on Wuhan virus deaths*

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — As many experts question the veracity of China's statistics for the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak, Tencent over the weekend seems to have inadvertently released what is potentially the actual number of infections and deaths, which were astronomically higher than official figures.
On late Saturday evening (Feb. 1), Tencent, on its webpage titled "Epidemic Situation Tracker", showed confirmed cases of novel coronavirus (2019nCoV) in China as standing at 154,023, 10 times the official figure at the time. It listed the number of suspected cases as 79,808, four times the official figure.
The number of cured cases was only 269, well below the official number that day of 300. Most ominously, the death toll listed was 24,589, vastly higher than the 300 officially listed that day.
Moments later, Tencent updated the numbers to reflect the government's "official" numbers that day. Netizens noticed that Tencent has on at least three occasions posted extremely high numbers, only to quickly lower them to government-approved statistics.

More at the link.

*Tencent may have accidentally leaked real dat... | Taiwan News*


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 5, 2020)

I'm not totally sure how much faith can be put in that report. While I don't doubt that China is deliberately under reporting the real numbers I think the WHO might have stepped in by this stage if they're that high. The other thing that I'd wonder about is how Tencent got those numbers in the first place- they're close to the PRC government but I don't see why they'd be getting those numbers in the first place.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 5, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I'm not totally sure how much faith can be put in that report. While I don't doubt that China is deliberately under reporting the real numbers I think the WHO might have stepped in by this stage if they're that high. The other thing that I'd wonder about is how Tencent got those numbers in the first place- they're close to the PRC government but I don't see why they'd be getting those numbers in the first place.


Was thinking about that.  If true we should start seeing an increased lethality outside of China.


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 6, 2020)

First case confirmed in my AO.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Feb 6, 2020)

Interesting how this happened when there's protests in china...


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 6, 2020)

Gunz said:


> They used to do it at Ft Detrick, didn't they?


Yes Ft. Derrick is the home of the biological research and development command. 
I was there for several years as part of the SMART-AIT component. Of our national bio-terror defense program.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 6, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Public health 101--wash your hands.  Frequently.  With soap (but not antibacterial soap).  When you think you're done, continue washing your hands.  Use hand sanitizers when soap and water are not available.
> 
> This PSA applies regardless of 2019-nCoV.




Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff hand sanitizers won't kill.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> - Multiple Corona Virus threads merged -


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 6, 2020)

Doctor who sounded alarm on coronavirus has died:

The Chinese doctor who sounded the alarm on the Wuhan coronavirus has died :: WRAL.com


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Doctor who sounded alarm on coronavirus has died:
> 
> The Chinese doctor who sounded the alarm on the Wuhan coronavirus has died :: WRAL.com


Quick!  Someone post a meme that suggests had info about Hillary Clinton, be first!!!!


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Doctor who sounded alarm on coronavirus has died:
> 
> The Chinese doctor who sounded the alarm on the Wuhan coronavirus has died :: WRAL.com



Apparently not dead. So, must not have had dirt @Ooh-Rah 🤐


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 6, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Apparently not dead. So, must not have had dirt @Ooh-Rah 🤐



Yeahhhh....maybe, maybe not.  I have seen dead, I have seen "in critical condition with attempts to resuscitate", and I have seen brain dead (which is, you know, dead...), ALL within the last 45 minutes......

Apparently the state of medicine in China is so bad they can't figure out what alive vs dead is....


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 6, 2020)

It's probably more related to the state of journalism...which is also not particularly strong.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Yeahhhh....maybe, maybe not.  I have seen dead, I have seen "in critical condition with attempts to resuscitate", and I have seen brain dead (which is, you know, dead...), ALL within the last 45 minutes......
> 
> Apparently the state of medicine in China is so bad they can't figure out what alive vs dead is....



Well, in fairness it’s difficult with zombies.  They’ll fool you.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 6, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Apparently not dead. So, must not have had dirt @Ooh-Rah 🤐


----------



## SaintKP (Feb 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> have seen brain dead (which is, you know, dead...)




Terri Schiavo's parents would like a word.


----------



## AWP (Feb 6, 2020)

On the whole I'd say this board has taken a dark turn in the last 24 hours. I'm almost afraid to see what books everyone's reading...


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 6, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Terri Schiavo's parents would like a word.



I think she was PVS, not brain dead.  Brain dead is dead.


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> On the whole I'd say this board has taken a dark turn in the last 24 hours. I'm almost afraid to see what books everyone's reading...



The only thing I read is this forum. It's got comedy, tragedy, irony, satire, fiction, nonfiction, politics, history, this forum is a one-stop shop for all of my reading and entertainment needs...


----------



## SaintKP (Feb 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I think she was PVS, not brain dead.  Brain dead is dead.



I was going to say something about ducks and paperweights come to mind. But you're right, probably should have read up on the case a little more.





AWP said:


> On the whole I'd say this board has taken a dark turn in the last 24 hours. I'm almost afraid to see what books everyone's reading...



Currently reading a WH40K novel, so might be a reason. But as @Devildoc  said, this place is kind of a one stop shop for anything I want. Want to learn about military history? Easy. I want to keep in the loop on US news? Done. Want some quality memes, some with a seriously dark undertone? Fuggettaboutit. 

Not to mention the other sub discussions on morality, ethics, AI, security, cars, etc. etc.


----------



## Jaknight (Feb 7, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I was going to say something about ducks and paperweights come to mind. But you're right, probably should have read up on the case a little more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The Emperor Protects


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

Not to be a stick in the mud, but it's China. The PRC literally has concentration camps where they harvest your organs if you piss off the govt bad enough. Getting reliable information out of there is a herculean task already, due to the PRC's information blackout. 

If you want real information forget the mainstream stuff, look at what the people trapped in infected zones are putting out. The Chinese citizens documenting this pandemics spread are risking imprisonment and worse. 

Food for thought.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 7, 2020)

Ever see the movie, Contagion with Matt Damon?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Ever see the movie, Contagion with Matt Damon?


Haven't seen it, but I keep hearing about this film. I did end up reading the synopsis for it and seeing some clips. Do you think things will lean towards a breakdown in social order here? Or is the film and it's plot playing out in China? Cause I've been seeing reports that Xing is in hiding and some of the leaked stuff from Wuhan is earlily reminiscent of the clips I've seen.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 7, 2020)

Why would Xi* need to be in hiding though? Food shortages might come but I think the Red Cross and the PLA will step in with rations before that happens. Social disorder? Possibly,if this goes on for six months plus but I wouldn't put any money on it right away.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Why would Xi* need to be in hiding though? Food shortages might come but I think the Red Cross and the PLA will step in with rations before that happens. Social disorder? Possibly,if this goes on for six months plus but I wouldn't put any money on it right away.


That's the word coming from China, he hasn't been seen in a bit. Don't take my word for it though.
China says Xi Jinping is directing the Wuhan virus response, but he's nowhere to be seen

If the pandemic spreading throughout China isn't as bad as people are saying, why is their top leader in hiding/isolation?


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 7, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That's the word coming from China, he hasn't been seen in a bit. Don't take my word for it though.
> China says Xi Jinping is directing the Wuhan virus response, but he's nowhere to be seen
> 
> If the pandemic spreading throughout China isn't as bad as people are saying, why is their top leader in hiding/isolation?



It's a fair question. My thought is that it's a media strategy and in a few days some photos or videos will come out of him in a bunker somewhere "working hard and solving the problem" or something. I don't think he's in hiding as such though. Again, the question would be why would he be? He's got security up the wazoo, he doesn't have to worry about a few crowds of people (who would get swiftly moved on anyway, if they can even congregate).


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 7, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That's the word coming from China, he hasn't been seen in a bit. Don't take my word for it though.
> China says Xi Jinping is directing the Wuhan virus response, but he's nowhere to be seen
> 
> If the pandemic spreading throughout China isn't as bad as people are saying, why is their top leader in hiding/isolation?



I've seen this movie.  He's firmly ensconced in Raccoon City about to program the artificial intelligence that takes over for him when the zombies kill everyone.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's a fair question. My thought is that it's a media strategy and in a few days some photos or videos will come out of him in a bunker somewhere "working hard and solving the problem" or something. I don't think he's in hiding as such though. Again, the question would be why would he be? He's got security up the wazoo, he doesn't have to worry about a few crowds of people (who would get swiftly moved on anyway, if they can even congregate).


Maybe with how easily transmissible the Corona virus is he ain't taking chances. Xinping's security isn't worth peanuts against a virus that spreads like the flu. If I had his power and was faced with the corona virus I'd definitely be bugging in.

Heck, it might be possibility that Xi's sick and is in hiding to keep from losing his grip on power. It sounds crazy, but with everything that has come out of China these past few years I have zero faith in them.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Yeahhhh....maybe, maybe not.  I have seen dead, I have seen "in critical condition with attempts to resuscitate", and I have seen brain dead (which is, you know, dead...), ALL within the last 45 minutes......
> 
> Apparently the state of medicine in China is so bad they can't figure out what alive vs dead is....


Your first post was dead on. Looks like the doctor died and the Chicoms spread misinformation about him getting better. It's like their incompetence knows no bounds.

China Admits it Botched Case of Whistleblower Doctor


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 7, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Your first post was dead on. Looks like the doctor died and the Chicoms spread misinformation about him getting better. It's like their incompetence knows no bounds.
> 
> China Admits it Botched Case of Whistleblower Doctor


This and Hong Kong will severely task the Chinese Security apparatus.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> This and Hong Kong will severely task the Chinese Security apparatus.


Honestly, if I were a 3 letter agency or any small govt angry at the PRC I would be making moves to kick/burn out China's outside holdings.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 7, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Haven't seen it, but I keep hearing about this film. I did end up reading the synopsis for it and seeing some clips. Do you think things will lean towards a breakdown in social order here? Or is the film and it's plot playing out in China? Cause I've been seeing reports that Xing is in hiding and some of the leaked stuff from Wuhan is earlily reminiscent of the clips I've seen.



Any pandemic bad enough will be a problem. Hospitals, emergency services will have issues, no police, crime, sick citizens, food does not get delivered, citizens are only 9 meals away from anarchy.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 7, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Any pandemic bad enough will be a problem. Hospitals, emergency services will have issues, no police, crime, sick citizens, food does not get delivered, citizens are only 9 meals away from anarchy.


I hope to god we are better at managing this pandemic better than the Chinese. Though anyway you look at it we're going to take a hit. We really need to get our eggs out of China's manufacturing basket, they're too reckless.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 7, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I hope to god we are better at managing this pandemic better than the Chinese. Though anyway you look at it we're going to take a hit. We really need to get our eggs out of China's manufacturing basket, they're too reckless.



Preach bro.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 8, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ...pretty much everything you’ve said in this thread...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 8, 2020)

policemedic said:


>


Weeellll..... I was a grunt. Logic and sophisti-macated thought are difficult for me.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 8, 2020)

Neat video for anyone interested. These guys were western expat's living in China and posted videos of their conversations while riding motorbikes in China.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 8, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Neat video for anyone interested. These guys were western expat's living in China and posted videos of their conversations while riding motorbikes in China.


People don't trust the PRC, and the Chinese bragging about beating customs are the ones responsible for the racists attacks.  
To me, the various videos show a government in full panic mode.  Which fuels fear.
I also think western governments know what is happening, and are keeping silent.  Which fuels fear.
FWIW-Yesterday saw almost 100 reported deaths.  Deceased vs survived is still running about 30%.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 8, 2020)

Dude! Honestly, the media blackout and lack of information on this has been pretty discouraging. It's kinda sad that people don't want to have an honest discussion about something that has the potential to become a global pandemic. I know fear and panic are the last thing a govt wants, but at some point something has gotta give.

I dunno, sometimes I feel like were treated more like subjects than citizens. Information is power and I feel like the average American is always playing catch up when it comes to getting that information.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 8, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Ever see the movie, Contagion with Matt Damon?



This one was real good:


----------



## Chopstick (Feb 8, 2020)

Strange timing and place of death  of Canadian researcher Frank Plummer, known for his work with HIV, Ebola, SARS and Corona virus.  Plummer died of an apparent heart attack February 4 in Kenya while attending an anniversary celebrating the research collaboration of the University of Nairobi and the University of Manitoba. 

An article from 2013 regarding how Plummer obtained Coronavirus for research Canadian Lab Acquires Coronavirus Sample | GreatGameIndia

Another article regarding removal (read theft) of Ebola virus from Plummer's lab by Konan Michael Yao in 2009 May 2009: Committee says lab-sample theft not a big deal as well as follow up https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cana...o-sneak-biological-material-into-u-s-1.778428

For what ever it is worth, from today's Zerohedge: Canadian Scientist At Center Of Chinese Bio-Espionage Probe Found Dead In Africa?



> What is not mentioned in the CBC report however is that Plummer worked in the same National Microbiology Laboratory (NML) in Winnipeg, Canada from *where Chinese Biowarfare agent Xiangguo Qiu and her colleagues smuggled SARS Coronavirus to China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology where it is believed to have been weaponized and leaked.*


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 8, 2020)

What's the strange timing? Heart attacks don't exactly work to a schedule.


----------



## Chopstick (Feb 8, 2020)

I was referring to the fact that the Coronavirus is a "thing" at this time,  and a leading researcher involved with that particular viris (who also just happened to have a history of thefts from his labs by the Chinese) suddenly drops dead of an "apparent heart attack". I don't think an official cause of Plummer's death has been determined yet.  It's all just a bit strange.


----------



## AWP (Feb 8, 2020)

The Canadian lab acquired a coronavirus in 2013, not the one we see now. "Coronavirus" is a term for a range of strands and not specific to what's killing people right now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> The Canadian lab acquired a coronavirus in 2013, not the one we see now. "Coronavirus" is a term for a range of strands and not specific to what's killing people right now.


As AWP is stating and to elaborate SARS is a Coronavirus.  This one is called N-Cov 2019.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> The Canadian lab acquired a coronavirus in 2013, not the one we see now. "Coronavirus" is a term for a range of strands and not specific to what's killing people right now.



Stop with your facting and sciencing.  It's upsetting.


----------



## policemedic (Feb 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> As AWP is stating and to elaborate SARS is a Coronavirus.  This one is called N-Cov 2019.



2019-nCoV, to be precise (just to make facty sciency @AWP happy).


----------



## AWP (Feb 8, 2020)

policemedic said:


> Stop with your facting and sciencing.  It's upsetting.



BUT I NEED TO BE AFRAID!!!!!!

Sorry, not Monday. Apologies.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 9, 2020)

@AWP @policemedic

Just outta curiosity, what do you guys think is the origin of the Corona Virus that's going around? I mean, we've all seen the story the CCP put out about it being due to poor hygiene at a wet market. Do you guys think it's legit?

Between the information that's coming out about the research institute, the CCP cover-up with the Chinese doctor, and this new information about stolen virus samples, something doesn't smell right. If old virus strains were stolen and later modified in a CCP biotech lab, I would assume they would exhibit new characteristics. Heck, with enough modification I'd think an old virus could be labeled as something new.

Considering the CCP's response in silencing their doctor (now deifying), the resulting quarantines, officials getting family/friends out of quarantine zones, and Xi's disappearance, something isn't adding up. I mean dude's, the PRC has stopped it's economic engine in order to keep whatever this is from spreading.

Feel free to call me provincial, but I'm thinking this could be a case of containment being broken at that CCP biotech facility in Wuhan.

-Edited for grammar and clarity


----------



## policemedic (Feb 9, 2020)

You know what I think?  I think I don't know enough to answer that question.

In fairness to what you've said, there is one thing about this virus that strikes me as characteristic of a bioweapon.  But that doesn't mean this characteristic did not occur naturally.  Viruses are fascinating, and the zoonotic nature of this outbreak presents many interesting considerations.

I prefer to confine myself to the actual science and public health issues.

Right now, there is a possibility that we are in a lag phase.  That is to say, there may be people who are incubating the virus and who are not yet symptomatic.  2019-nCoV seems to be transmissible during the incubation period, so we are in a wait and see mode watching for additional confirmed cases.  This gives time to ramp up capability to manage those cases should they manifest.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 9, 2020)

I've got a lot of experience of China. The origin in the market because of poor hygiene is completely plausible.


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 9, 2020)

Isn't a wet market, but a bird based one, the presumed source of SARS? Seems like the that is the presumed origin of the more deadly coronavirus.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @AWP @policemedic
> 
> Just outta curiosity, what do you guys think is the origin of the Corona Virus that's going around? I mean, we've all seen the story that the CCP has put out about it being due to poor hygiene at a wet market. Do you guys think it's legit?
> 
> ...



Just for a simple logistics matter I did some math on how many flights went in and out of Wuhan that was definitely short of whatever the total is.  But given the population density and how many Chinese study abroad and were in Wuhan over the Christmas Holidays is mind boggling and we're currently lucky in the west.  But I wonder what China's actual numbers are.  I also wonder why this seems to have gone quiet.  Guessing the Iowa debacle smothered it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 10, 2020)

More stuff coming out of China.
(Videos are either under or a little over a min long.)

-Villagers getting drawn on by CCP police at a self constructed roadblock. Looks like the villagers were trying to quarantine their village.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226573156548169728
-Glimpse at the PPE and staff in what appears to be a ward of patients infected or dying from the Corona Virus.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226644549013049344
-College in Wuhan having student dorms emptied. Unsure what for.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226539404665081856
-Police in China going after citizens that post information about the Corona virus.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226552698234949633
-China changing definition of what constitutes a confirmed case of Corona virus infection.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226840055869632512


----------



## AWP (Feb 10, 2020)

My sweet summer children...you do understand the world will do nothing but die, right? China could openly state that it caused the outbreak and the world will do nothing. Chinese hooks into the world's economy will guarantee nothing but lies.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Feb 10, 2020)

Should've listened to Bill 5 years ago...


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 10, 2020)

BSL-3 PPE and, corpses in burn bags? I no longer am “expert” at implementation of the current protocols. But, from what I can ascertain from the video and audio. The situation appears to be medically untenable. 
If the CCP responds the way I believe they will. The mass graves, “burn pits” are being dug already. Forceful containment of transmissible vectors ( people). Is the ONLY way to even slow this thing down. 
Treatment of the virus under BSL-4 quarantine conditions. In a facility large enough to contain patients. Is what needs to happen. 
Even though China is first world scientifically. I am not aware of, nor have I seen evidence of. Implementation of the level 4 protocols.
Maybe someone else has better intel on that.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> My sweet summer children...you do understand the world will do nothing but die, right? China could openly state that it caused the outbreak and the world will do nothing. Chinese hooks into the world's economy will guarantee nothing but lies.


Really? Cause I'm pretty sure there are places in South East Asia and Africa that could do what China does for less. Only reason China matters is because we outsourced our manufacturing capabilities to them. Without us and access to both global monetary and trade networks they are dead in the water.

There are plenty of other countries who are hungry, friendly, and in need of economic development. Heck, ourselves and our neighbors down south (with some stabilization) could use some economic redevelopment in the form of new and improved manufacturing opportunities.

The world doesn't need China, China needs the world.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 10, 2020)

This guy has a pretty good twitter feed with videos from China. Looks like people are going nuts and the CCP does not have grasp on the situation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226514449110097925


----------



## Bambi (Feb 10, 2020)

Weather apps show a high level of SO2 (Sulfur Dioxide) and active fires around the outskirts of Wuhan.


----------



## Butthead (Feb 10, 2020)

Bambi said:


> Weather apps show a high level of SO2 (Sulfur Dioxide) and active fires around the outskirts of Wuhan.


Considering the fear of this being spread from animal markets, it's probably farmers burning livestock to either stop spread or to save face. Wouldn't be the first time they've done this.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 10, 2020)




----------



## Bambi (Feb 10, 2020)

Butthead said:


> Considering the fear of this being spread from animal markets, it's probably farmers burning livestock to either stop spread or to save face. Wouldn't be the first time they've done this.


I figured it was something along the lines of burning waste/ things that could spread the virus. The sulfur dioxide could very well be normal levels for China, but the active fires struck me as a bit odd.


----------



## Butthead (Feb 10, 2020)

Bambi said:


> I figured it was something along the lines of burning waste/ things that could spread the virus. The sulfur dioxide could very well be normal levels for China, but the active fires struck me as a bit odd.


This was posted on CNN however.
( Coronavirus Death Smog: Is China Burning Thousands of Infected Bodies? )


----------



## Butthead (Feb 10, 2020)

Butthead said:


> This was posted on CNN however.
> ( Coronavirus Death Smog: Is China Burning Thousands of Infected Bodies? )


Sorry, misread the name. CCN.


----------



## AWP (Feb 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Really? Cause I'm pretty sure there are places in South East Asia and Africa that could do what China does for less. Only reason China matters is because we outsourced our manufacturing capabilities to them. Without us and access to both global monetary and trade networks they are dead in the water.
> 
> There are plenty of other countries who are hungry, friendly, and in need of economic development. Heck, ourselves and our neighbors down south (with some stabilization) could use some economic redevelopment in the form of new and improved manufacturing opportunities.
> 
> The world doesn't need China, China needs the world.



Very true except for one thing: those other countries lack China's industrial base. Can they develop? Of course, but that ramp up time won't be overnight. A lag in moving from China to another country could be significant unless companies were willing to spin up a new factory and work in parallel with their Chinese labor camps. Some companies won't be able to afford this and any move would kill the company.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> Very true except for one thing: those other countries lack China's industrial base. Can they develop? Of course, but that ramp up time won't be overnight. A lag in moving from China to another country could be significant unless companies were willing to spin up a new factory and work in parallel with their Chinese labor camps. Some companies won't be able to afford this and any move would kill the company.


Vietnam has become a popular outsource location (ironic, huh).
Between Trump and this; I see a lot of companies going with a second source to keep goods flowing.
Wonder how Crapernicks shoe sales are going?


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> Very true except for one thing: those other countries lack China's industrial base. Can they develop? Of course, but that ramp up time won't be overnight. A lag in moving from China to another country could be significant unless companies were willing to spin up a new factory and work in parallel with their Chinese labor camps. Some companies won't be able to afford this and any move would kill the company.


I know I'm going to sound naive, but if a company hedges it's future on Chinese slave labor it deserves to die. It's incredibly reckless how American companies placed so much of our manufacturing might into backwards countries like China, Pakistan, etc. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the free market and capitalism, but greed has stripped lower & middle America of wealth and transferred it over to our enemies. All over cheaper manufacturing costs and crony capitalism. 

It's been a mistake opening up the world markets to a bunch of communists.


----------



## TheSiatonist (Feb 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> Very true except for one thing: those other countries lack China's industrial base. Can they develop? Of course, but that ramp up time won't be overnight. A lag in moving from China to another country could be significant unless companies were willing to spin up a new factory and work in parallel with their Chinese labor camps. Some companies won't be able to afford this and any move would kill the company.


I think for most companies, the biggest driver in the decision to send their business to China is the very cheap labor cost. Imagine spending so little in manufacturing a product and getting so much once the product is sold in the US or Europe.  Moving a business from one location to the next isn't that hard anymore as there are already contingencies for that (phased approach, ramp-ups, etc.). Sure, companies will take a hit but the impact will be minimal. 

The biggest problem with China has always been the quality - whether it's the workmanship, the material used, etc. But due to the cheap labor, companies can afford additional quality checks and still get very good margins.  That and some companies stealing your product concept/design.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 12, 2020)

This is pretty huge in my work environment: Hong Kong Sevens postponed until October as city battles virus


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## DA SWO (Feb 12, 2020)

20,000 new (?) cases in the last 24 hours.


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## “The Old Man” (Feb 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> 20,000 new (?) cases in the last 24 hours.


WTF, when was this reported. I’m still traveling back home. From when we were at SHOT.


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## DA SWO (Feb 12, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> WTF, when was this reported. I’m still traveling back home. From when we were at SHOT.


I'll post my link later. 
CDC/WHO have a near Arcview page.


----------



## Board and Seize (Feb 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> 20,000 new (?) cases in the last 24 hours.




From the ARCGIS dashboard:



Yikes!


----------



## Board and Seize (Feb 12, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> WTF, when was this reported. I’m still traveling back home. From when we were at SHOT.



What, are you walking home?! That was 3½ weeks ago!


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## AWP (Feb 12, 2020)

We have to nuke China. This is the way.


----------



## Totentanz (Feb 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> We have to nuke China. This is the way.



From orbit.


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## “The Old Man” (Feb 12, 2020)

Just read the WHO sit rep 23. Is there another source with these numbers listed (20,000)?
Will check the link once @DA SWO posts. 
I worry because I’ve seen the models/ scenarios worked out before. When I was still active. The current protocols haven’t changed much. Containment is just that... CONTAINMENT!
Health workers really need to be under ,at minimum, BSL-3 PPE protection.


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## “The Old Man” (Feb 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> We have to nuke China. This is the way.





Totentanz said:


> From orbit.


FAE’s to incinerate everything would be the soap I’d suggest. To clean this clusterfuck up.
Walk in afterwards and re-establish what’s left over of the people that may be left. 
Why turn it into a nuclear wasteland. Just vaporize all the motherfuckers. Take whatever is left and be done with it.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 12, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> Just read the WHO sit rep 23. Is there another source with these numbers listed (20,000)?
> Will check the link once @DA SWO posts.
> I worry because I’ve seen the models/ scenarios worked out before. When I was still active. The current protocols haven’t changed much. Containment is just that... CONTAINMENT!
> Health workers really need to be under ,at minimum, BSL-3 PPE protection.


Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS


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## “The Old Man” (Feb 12, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> What, are you walking home?! That was 3½ weeks ago!


Well... a funny thing happened. 
No, seriously. My girl and I are both retired so we have spent the time visiting family out west. 

With a week or two of just exploring and seeing different stuff. 
We were the only ones up there at the time. But if you’ve never been naked on top of Mesa Verde. Well then you’re missing out on a lot of fun🤣


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## Bambi (Feb 12, 2020)

According to CNN (bare with me here as I do not have a subscription to paywall news) China has loosened their policy around confirming cases, from being diagnosed with COVID-19 to people showing symptoms of COVID-19. Also worth mentioning, the number of people with COVID-19 is probably way higher than the number China is reporting on. People who are in the incubation stage of the virus, those without access to hospitals, etc.


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## SaintKP (Feb 13, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> Why turn it into a nuclear wasteland. Just vaporize all the motherfuckers. Take whatever is left and be done with it.




Are you trying to deny me my god given birthright to participate in a real life Fallout?


----------



## “The Old Man” (Feb 13, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Are you trying to deny me my god given birthright to participate in a real life Fallout?


Well since you put it that way... make ‘em glow👍😎


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 13, 2020)

(@ 1:41:51) The panel is asked how the Corona virus compares to the flu. The 'R naught'  of influenza was stated as 1.28, while the corona virus was at between 2-3. The stated case fatality rate for influenza was 0.1% or less, while the estimates for the case fatality rate of Corona is at 2%.

It was also mentioned that Corona is a lower respiratory virus and that warm weather doesn't seem to be slowing down it's propagation (outbreak in Singapore).

It's believed there are undocumented Corona cases here in the US, as many people fled infected zones (China) before the travel restrictions were put into place. The trick now is finding those infected and keeping the virus spread contained.


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## “The Old Man” (Feb 13, 2020)

Once it’s out of the container. It’s like trying to stuff runny shit back up your ass.


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## AWP (Feb 13, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Are you trying to deny me my god given birthright to participate in a real life Fallout?



Now I want to go play that game, minus the super mutants and those damn rebar club things...

#WarNeverChanges


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 13, 2020)

World Rugby has postponed both Hong Kong and Singapore 7s: World Rugby Statement: Singapore and Hong Kong Sevens rescheduled - HSBC World Rugby Sevens Series | www.world.rugby/sevens-series


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## DA SWO (Feb 13, 2020)

All the deaths (save 1) in China.
I wonder if the shitty air quality is contributing to the mortality rate?


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## Polar Bear (Feb 13, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> All the deaths (save 1) in China.
> I wonder if the shitty air quality is contributing to the mortality rate?


It is Congresses fault.


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 13, 2020)

China gonna China.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228026632457289732


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 13, 2020)

The amateur journalist's that gave the world a glimpse into the crisis in Wuhan have gone silent. Given the CCP's brutality I think we all know what happened to them.
Why have two reporters in Wuhan disappeared?

Video of one of the journalists ( Chen Qiushi ) is in the quote or on pg 4 of this thread.


R.Caerbannog said:


> Have stumbled across some pretty poignant videos of how things are deteriorating in Wuhan. I'm not being a negative Nancy or pessimist Paul here, but I also don't trust the numbers the PRC is putting out. Considering the desperation in the videos coming out of Wuhan and what people are risking to speak out, I think it's intellectually dishonest to call what we are seeing as fearmongering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 15, 2020)

Apparently this is a thing now. Jesus.


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 15, 2020)

First death in France.

New virus cases fall; WHO says China bought the world time


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## DA SWO (Feb 15, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> First death in France.
> 
> New virus cases fall; WHO says China bought the world time


China bought time, LOL.
Still pissed the US is in 12th place, we need to up our game.


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 15, 2020)

It was the first non-China based death, yes?

ETA: I know that has been the talk here...die in China, surviving elsewhere.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 15, 2020)

No I think one died in Singapore I want to say. 

Re that massive jump in numbers. I'm reading that they (not sure if CN gov or WHO) changed the way they were reported or recorded so that accounts for the massive jump. I'll need to find the details again.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 15, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> It was the first non-China based death, yes?
> 
> ETA: I know that has been the talk here...die in China, surviving elsewhere.


1 death in the PI.


SpitfireV said:


> No I think one died in Singapore I want to say.
> 
> Re that massive jump in numbers. I'm reading that they (not sure if CN gov or WHO) changed the way they were reported or recorded so that accounts for the massive jump. I'll need to find the details again.


Correct.  Multiple reports said they were under counting, so I'd say this is just an adjustment.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 15, 2020)

You're right it was the Philippines.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 16, 2020)

Yes it's the Daily Mail but the lab is coming up again. 

Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory?


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## R.Caerbannog (Feb 18, 2020)

Testimony from Kentaro Iwata, an infection control specialist, who managed to board the Diamond Princess. Apparently there is no distinction between hot & green zones on board the ship. Based on Iwara's video, it seems the virus has been left to run amok due to poor management.






Iwata Kentaro


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## Dame (Feb 19, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Yes it's the Daily Mail but the lab is coming up again.
> 
> Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory?


Just sayin'.
Harvard professor among three charged with lying about Chinese government ties


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> Just sayin'.
> Harvard professor among three charged with lying about Chinese government ties



What's the Coronavirus link here?


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> What's the Coronavirus link here?



Wuhan snd microbiology, by my read.


----------



## Dame (Feb 20, 2020)

I posted this in response to @RackMaster's post. My point was to agree with him that it may all be nonsense, but...

The good professor was given $50K/month plus living expenses by Wuhan University and was establishing an unauthorized research lab there. 
At the same time, a medical student from China was charged with trying to smuggle vials of research specimens in his suitcase bound for China. He was in the U.S. on a visa sponsored by Harvard, and apparently stole the materials from a lab at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. 
The investigation includes the National Institute of Health, as a huge chunk of grant money from them was being used specifically for research to be sent to China. 
Along with his article on Wuhan's BioSafetyLevel 4 laboratory, the general feeling I get from this article and others is that this is a little too coincidental.


----------



## krhm60 (Feb 20, 2020)

This conservation is pointless, remember to wash your hands, sneeze in your boots, do the hokie pokie as you turn yourself around, Thats what it's all about!


----------



## AWP (Feb 20, 2020)

If I thought this shit would spare my family but wipe out 20% of the world's population, I'd load it into planes and give the contrail wackos something to talk about (if they survive).


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> If I thought this shit would spare my family but wipe out 20% of the world's population, I'd load it into planes and give the contrail wackos something to talk about (if they survive).


It does have a higher rate of infection than the flu (almost double I think) and an estimated 2% death rate for those who get ill from it. If anything, we are seeing a watershed moment in China and the grasp the CCP has over it. 

With it looking like the CCP inadvertently released a killer virus and it's infected citizens on the world, Chinese leverage on the global stage is about to be tested. This biological screw-up is also going to force international supply systems to look outside of China for manufacturing needs. 

Regardless, our population and economy is going to take a hit from this. Friggin China.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 20, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> It does have a higher rate of infection than the flu (almost double I think) and an estimated 2% death rate for those who get ill from it. If anything, we are seeing a watershed moment in China and the grasp the CCP has over it.
> 
> With it looking like the CCP inadvertently released a killer virus and it's infected citizens on the world, Chinese leverage on the global stage is about to be tested. This biological screw-up is also going to force international supply systems to look outside of China for manufacturing needs.
> 
> Regardless, *our population and economy is going to take a hit* from this. Friggin China.



Good.
This will force the Walmartians to think.
Single source is stupid, especially with a JIT mentality.  This will create opportunities elsewhere (hopefully Central America).


----------



## LibraryLady (Feb 20, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Good.
> This will force the Walmartians to think.
> Single source is stupid, especially with a JIT mentality.  This will create opportunities elsewhere (hopefully Central America).


Wrong. Walmartians don't think, they react. 

JIT has been pushed HARD since the 60s-70s, it is so engrained into capitalism now, I highly doubt it will ever go away on the macro level, aka Walmart.

LL


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 20, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Good.
> This will force the Walmartians to think.
> Single source is stupid, especially with a JIT mentality.  This will create opportunities elsewhere (hopefully Central America).


Yep, it is profoundly stupid and we're going to pay the price yet again. Considering the damage they've done, we need to shut China out of the global markets.



LibraryLady said:


> Wrong. Walmartians don't think, they react.
> 
> JIT has been pushed HARD since the 60s-70s, it is so engrained into capitalism now, I highly doubt it will ever go away on the macro level, aka Walmart.
> 
> LL


To be honest, I'm not sure how much the public is familiar with the 'Just in Time' production system. A lot of this information isn't really accessible or easily digestible to our populace. Even if the pitfalls of the JIT model were discussed openly our MSM would decry it as anti-Chinese and anti-business.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> I posted this in response to @RackMaster's post. My point was to agree with him that it may all be nonsense, but...
> 
> The good professor was given $50K/month plus living expenses by Wuhan University and was establishing an unauthorized research lab there.
> At the same time, a medical student from China was charged with trying to smuggle vials of research specimens in his suitcase bound for China. He was in the U.S. on a visa sponsored by Harvard, and apparently stole the materials from a lab at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.
> ...



I don't really agree. Those are all a tangent to the coronavirus, unless you're advocating a deliberate or accidental release (for whatever reason) which I also don't agree with.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't really agree. Those are all a tangent to the coronavirus, unless you're advocating a deliberate or accidental release (for whatever reason) which I also don't agree with.


The lab has been criticized for crappy procedures with warnings that an accidental release was probable, so I am willing to accept an accidental release.
China sure as shit did not want to release any info, and the normally are more open on the crap escaping from their country.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 20, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> The lab has been criticized for crappy procedures with warnings that an accidental release was probable, so I am willing to accept an accidental release.
> China sure as shit did not want to release any info, and the normally are more open on the crap escaping from their country.



I should have been more clear, apologies. Accidental release I can see but not a deliberate one.


----------



## LibraryLady (Feb 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ...To be honest, I'm not sure how much the public is familiar with the 'Just in Time' production system. A lot of this information isn't really accessible or easily digestible to our populace. Even if the pitfalls of the JIT model were discussed openly our MSM would decry it as anti-Chinese and anti-business.


I didn't say public, I said on the macro level, Walmart. I agree John Q Public, aka Walmartians don't want to think hard enough to understand JIT. 

I would also lump most of the MSM into the definition of John Q Public...

LL


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 21, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> I didn't say public, I said on the macro level, Walmart. I agree John Q Public, aka Walmartians don't want to think hard enough to understand JIT.
> 
> I would also lump most of the MSM into the definition of John Q Public...
> 
> LL


I was of the mindset that if the public knew and understood how vulnerable JIT leaves them, they would demand a better system. If anything, changes can only be made when they impact consumers on a personal level. 

On the macro scale, Walmart, those peeps just care about their profit margin. To them COVID-19 and the manufacturing shortage is a black swan event they have to weather. When everything normalizes these people are going back to business as usual.


----------



## Dame (Feb 21, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't really agree. Those are all a tangent to the coronavirus, unless you're advocating a deliberate or accidental release (for whatever reason) which I also don't agree with.


Or if they are now trying to steal any research that could help them contain something they accidentally let loose. What I _don't_ buy is the "it started in the market" nonsense.


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 21, 2020)

Dame said:


> What I _don't_ buy is the "it started in the market" nonsense.



OK that's your prerogative to believe that but what makes you think that?


----------



## Dame (Feb 21, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> OK that's your prerogative to believe that but what makes you think that?


Well Spit, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else by agreeing with @RackMaster but since you asked, I'll be honest with you. The Chinese steal things from other countries (including Canada) all the time. They get this stuff (bio-research) home and try to do/make/re-engineer it. And as @DA SWO (and multiple other SME have) mentioned,


DA SWO said:


> The lab has been criticized for crappy procedures with warnings that an accidental release was probable, so I am willing to accept an accidental release.



The pathogens for this and the SARS virus are the same.
The lab was built to study the SARS virus according to the Chinese government.
China isn't known for tolerating whistle blowers who might make serious issues public knowledge.
My own gut instinct. I would make a wager on this one and I don't do that often.
I just hope the next virus to come out of China's wholesale animal market isn't a strain of Ebola.

Other sources that have swayed my opinion:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?
Wuhan coronavirus: China was warned in 2017 that a deadly virus could escape its level 4 biohazard lab


----------



## x SF med (Feb 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> if the public knew and understood how vulnerable JIT leaves them, they would demand a better system.



But.....   But..... But....  everything is fresh and new and doesn't sit in dirty warehouses (at this end of the supply chain).
I've dealt with the issues in JIT for decades...  cyclical planning for correct inventories is harder than being out of stock and requires well paid analysts/planners to make a NOT (Near on time) system work and requires real estate to cover shifts in stock levels.

Stock up on non-perishables for when the system crashes.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 22, 2020)

x SF med said:


> But.....   But..... But....  everything is fresh and new and doesn't sit in dirty warehouses (at this end of the supply chain).
> I've dealt with the issues in JIT for decades...  cyclical planning for correct inventories is harder than being out of stock and requires well paid analysts/planners to make a NOT (Near on time) system work and requires real estate to cover shifts in stock levels.
> 
> Stock up on non-perishables for when the system crashes.


Call me provincial, but I'm surprised the JIT model works as well as it does. China manufacturing and shipping goods an ocean away just seems inefficient and kinda dangerous. The fact that we've exported so much of our manufacturing might to the 3rd world is also concerning.

As for the system crashing... not too sure of you're joking or being serious. Cause I've heard rumblings about warehouses not seeing new inventory come in... like manufacturers of agricultural and other heavy machinery having to halt production due to a lack of parts.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 22, 2020)

36th Trending on Youtube. Looks like the seriousness of this is getting out.


----------



## Bypass (Feb 23, 2020)

"Mayor of Florence Dario Nardella has suggested residents hug Chinese people to encourage them in the fight against the novel coronavirus."


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 23, 2020)

Bypass said:


> "Mayor of Florence Dario Nardella has suggested residents hug Chinese people to encourage them in the fight against the novel coronavirus."


Self selection at it's best.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 23, 2020)

@Bypass @DA SWO
Considering the spread of Corona and subsequent lock down of Northern Italy, I'm starting to think the Chicoms are purposely spreading this thing.

Not sure if it's visible to everyone else, but that video is made by an apparatus of the CCP. (picture in spoiler)


Spoiler: CGTN






Also, Italy is stepping up their COVID19 response.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 24, 2020)

Well...We're cancelling more Rugby Matches-

Postponement of Italian fixtures due to Coronavirus Precautions


----------



## Brill (Feb 24, 2020)

Making shit up just to fill up air time is not a winning strategy.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232087367093276674


----------



## Dame (Feb 24, 2020)

I'ma leave this riiiiight here.
Don’t buy China’s story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab



> A national system to control biosecurity risks must be put in place “to protect the people’s health,” Xi said, because lab safety is a “national security” issue.
> 
> Xi didn’t actually admit that the coronavirus now devastating large swaths of China had escaped from one of the country’s bioresearch labs. But the very next day, evidence emerged suggesting that this is exactly what happened, as the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology released a new directive titled: “Instructions on strengthening biosecurity management in microbiology labs that handle advanced viruses like the novel coronavirus.”


----------



## racing_kitty (Feb 24, 2020)

Dame said:


> I'ma leave this riiiiight here.
> Don’t buy China’s story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab



Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence. Did China deliberately release the virus on their people? Oh hell no. Did Freddy Fat Fingers fuck up the bouillabaisse one good time at the state run cooties shack? Quite possibly.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 25, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 25, 2020)

So Iran's Deputy Health Minister contracted Coronavirus...
Top Iran health official gets virus as fears grow


----------



## Brill (Feb 25, 2020)

Seriously folks...get ready. Like snowstorm ready when roads are impassable. Roads will be fine but people delivering goods & services, not so much.


----------



## Bambi (Feb 25, 2020)

lindy said:


> Seriously folks...get ready. Like snowstorm ready when roads are impassable. Roads will be fine but people delivering goods & services, not so much.


Already got the basics in my medicine cabinet, which should be always be the case, expecting cooties or not.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 25, 2020)

Oh no not the snow.  lol


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 26, 2020)

Shit: USFK Service Member Confirmed with COVID-19


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shit: USFK Service Member Confirmed with COVID-19



Not too much of a surprise there considering how many forces you guys have there and the outbreak. You lot have top notch medical staff so hopefully the soldier hasn't spread it too far.


----------



## AWP (Feb 26, 2020)

A cold is going around at work...oh the people freaked out that they are going to die. 

The mortality rate is currently around 2-3 percent, it isn't as remotely lethal as SARS or MERS.

Any illness is bad, but fear mongering is worse.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> A cold is going around at work...oh the people freaked out that they are going to die.
> 
> The mortality rate is currently around 2-3 percent, it isn't as remotely lethal as SARS or MERS.
> 
> Any illness is bad, but fear mongering is worse.


2-3% out of potentially over 300 million people is gonna suck though. Couple COVID-19 with a shortage of consumer goods, an economic shortfall, and a change in the quality of life... yeah. If anything, our people on the lower economic spectrum are going feel the brunt of this.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 26, 2020)

My late mom would've attributed the Corona virus to the chem trails.


----------



## SaintKP (Feb 26, 2020)

If the Coronavirus changes to ModeloNegravirus then let me know, cause I'll go out and catch me some of that.




R.Caerbannog said:


> 2-3% out of potentially over 300 million people is gonna suck though.



Seriously though? There are only 80K cases reported worldwide, why make the jump to 300M? Even if you take into consideration that China might not be reporting accurately the number of cases, the population of the entire province of Hubei is 58M. That's still a very far ways off from considering this the next Spanish Flu, and would required a 100% infection rate to even put a dent into that number.







Chubbyemu is a channel I've been subscribed to for some time now, he's a doctor that covers medical cases and goes into the how, why, and what of various things related to the medical field. He sources everything he talks about so you can independently verify for yourself as well.


Covid-19 is dangerous to people with compromised immune systems, those who are older with a previous medical history. But that's nothing new if you consider the fact that Covid-19 is similar to Pneumonia and we already know how dangerous that is for that demographic.

I'm not saying we should brush it off like it's nothing, but implying that this is the next Spanish Flu, or the first domino in a series that halts the world's supply of resources doesn't help and it doesn't contribute anything.

ETA: Fixed population number and province name.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 26, 2020)

A bunch of our cadets at our military college self-isolated.  Must have had a big exam.

4 Royal Military College cadets in precautionary COVID-19 isolation at CFB Kingston


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 26, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> If the Coronavirus changes to ModeloNegravirus then let me know, cause I'll go out and catch me some of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our population (USA) is estimated to be north of 320 million. Based on the stats released by the CDC on the rate of infection, I have zero doubts that COVID-19 is here. (Thanks China!)

Also, with a 60% infection rate hospitals aren't equipped to deal with the potential 4-6 million people that are going to need intensive care. Heck, even with the flu's 30% rate we'd still be overwhelmed. (This isn't even taking shortages of medical goods into account and how screwed the medical requisition system is)

What's even worse is our supply chain is heavily dependent on Chinese made products and medicines. The main reason the public hasn't seen shortages is because local manufacturers, suppliers, and distributors, stocked up on goods before the Lunar New Year. (When China's manufacturing sector takes a break)

Dude... the US and rest of the world are about to get a collective kick in the knackers. Even if COVID-19 was a non-starter, China's manufacturing centers have been offline for a while. Those factories are gonna take a hot minute to restart and it will be months before new goods get here.

We're about to see our deficiencies laid bare and our people are going to suffer needlessly because of it.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Our population (USA) is estimated to be north of 320 million. Based on the stats released by the CDC on the rate of infection, I have zero doubts that COVID-19 is here. (Thanks China!)
> 
> Also, with a 60% infection rate hospitals aren't equipped to deal with the potential 4-6 million people that are going to need intensive care. Heck, even with the flu's 30% rate we'd still be overwhelmed. (This isn't even taking shortages of medical goods into account and how screwed the medical requisition system is)
> 
> ...


No people will suffer because they demand cheap stuff from China and companies are too stupid to split production.
Self inflicted wound.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 26, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> No people will suffer because they demand cheap stuff from China and companies are too stupid to split production.
> Self inflicted wound.


Both agree and disagree. Agree that our companies sold us out to the Chicoms. Disagree that the average Joe is at fault.

At the end of the day, Joe sixpack didn't have a say when our companies and politicans exported our manufacturing might to China. If anything, the portion of our populace that's going to suffer are the very same citizens who lost everything to China and are now reliant on those goods.

No matter what, this is going to suck. I just hope we learn our lesson about trusting despots and commies, cause we're about to pay a huge price for it.


----------



## Brill (Feb 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Our population (USA) is estimated to be north of 320 million.



Half of them have already been killed by gun violence!


----------



## AWP (Feb 26, 2020)

lindy said:


> Half of them have already been killed by gun violence!



They'll still find a way to vote in Nov...


----------



## Kaldak (Feb 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> They'll still find a way to vote in Nov...



Especially in Chicago.


----------



## LibraryLady (Feb 26, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Especially in Chicago.


Twice or they're not real 'Mericans!

LL


----------



## racing_kitty (Feb 27, 2020)

File this in the “Food For Thought” department. One reason the Spanish Flu was so deadly may have been aspirin toxicity, according to this nifty little piece from Oxford.

I’m still going to wash my hands and avoid sick folks, but that’s because I hate being sick, not that I fear for my life.


----------



## Brill (Feb 27, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> File this in the “Food For Thought” department. One reason the Spanish Flu was so deadly may have been aspirin toxicity, according to this nifty little piece from Oxford.



*(8.0–31.2 g per day)

Wow!!!!!*


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Feb 27, 2020)

lindy said:


> *(8.0–31.2 g per day)
> 
> Wow!!!!!*



Here's 10000 times your daily recommended dose and wash it down with some ale because the water will kill you!!!!


----------



## racing_kitty (Feb 27, 2020)

I think I should clarify the reason behind my Spanish Flu post. I’ve read/heard that covid-19 is and isn’t as bad as the Spanish Flu. If the mortality rate in 1919 was due to aspirin toxicity, then I’m really not worried about a Chinese bug.

Or it’s much worse, and I’ll die dumb and happy in my ignorance. Either one is a win for me.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 28, 2020)

Came across a video of the body bag situation in China's hospitals. In this case they're stacking little kids three deep in a body bag. Putting the vid in spoiler cause it's heart wrenching.



Spoiler: Video





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227289130213822464



Xi deserves to burn for this and everything else. Apparently death doesn't even stop the commies from humiliating you. 

Edit/add: Coronavirus: Harrowing footage of three young siblings in same body bag as China in crisis


----------



## SpitfireV (Feb 28, 2020)

First case confirmed here now. Came from Iran, who aren't doing any screening so as I understand it there's a travel ban on Iran now, too.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 28, 2020)

I’m supposed to go to Israel next week.  Corona gonna mess around and get me travel banned.


----------



## Brill (Feb 28, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I’m supposed to go to Israel next week.



You‘ll have the advantage!

‘BDS THIS’: Israel Makes ‘Exciting Breakthrough’ In Race For Coronavirus Vaccine


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 28, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> First case confirmed here now. Came from Iran, who aren't doing any screening so as I understand it there's a travel ban on Iran now, too.



Latest case here came from Iran as well.


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 28, 2020)

Emergency services telecom (i.e., 911) are training to telephone triage symptoms, travel history, etc.  The first level will be quarantine at home.  Public health and local medical centers are talking about 'medical response teams' to do home health visits for people who hit high probability indices.  They are gearing up to prevent a flood to the ED (for most people).


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 28, 2020)

lindy said:


> You‘ll have the advantage!
> 
> ‘BDS THIS’: Israel Makes ‘Exciting Breakthrough’ In Race For Coronavirus Vaccine



always skeptical

A Year Ago, An Israeli Research Group Said They Would Cure Cancer Within A Year. Did They Do It?


----------



## Brill (Feb 28, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Feb 28, 2020)

Travel restrictions are racist. Funeral pyres are not.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Feb 29, 2020)

AWP said:


> Travel restrictions are racist. Funeral pyres are not.


Try explaining that to the MSM sheeple. When the clock swings the other way it's gonna get ugly for everyone.


----------



## DA SWO (Feb 29, 2020)

While the numbers are small, the US saw a 10+% increase in the last 24 hours, and our 1st death.
The media should start blaming Trump for not closing the borders fast enough.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 29, 2020)

WTS Abu Dhabi has been postponed indefinitely, the Tokyo Marathon has been closed to only the Elite field.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 29, 2020)

GDC is officially postponed until summer


----------



## Bypass (Feb 29, 2020)

I just ordered 184 cans of Chunky soup and 48 cartons of crackers. I should be good for a couple of days.


----------



## Brill (Feb 29, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I just ordered 184 cans of Chunky soup and 48 cartons of crackers. I should be good for a couple of days.



Your soup to cracker ratio is concerning for a new Mod. I may need to rethink my vote.


----------



## Bypass (Feb 29, 2020)

lindy said:


> Your soup to cracker ratio is concerning for a new Mod. I may need to rethink my vote.


You may be right. I may have ordered too much soup to go with my crackers.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Feb 29, 2020)

The mod we deserve can eat all those crackers in one sitting.....


----------



## Bypass (Feb 29, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> The mod we deserve can eat all those crackers in one sitting.....



Yeah!!!



dog drinking water hose - Bing images


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 1, 2020)

Coronavirus Cuts China's Carbon Emissions by 100 Million Metric Tons, New Analysis Shows

100 million metric tons is equivalent to the amount of C02 emitted by Chile during a year.


----------



## Dame (Mar 1, 2020)

So this is not good. I'm not seeing any information on how it got there in the first place.
Washington State Probing Troubling Coronavirus Outbreak In Nursing Home


----------



## Bypass (Mar 2, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I just ordered 184 cans of Chunky soup and 48 cartons of crackers. I should be good for a couple of days.


So Walmart is OUT of soup. I'm only getting 80 cans of the 184 I ordered. I looked and they're sold out of everything.



Dame said:


> So this is not good. I'm not seeing any information on how it got there in the first place.
> Washington State Probing Troubling Coronavirus Outbreak In Nursing Home


The CDC doesn't currently have a working test for the CV so there is no telling how many cases the US actually has atm.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 2, 2020)

Bypass said:


> The CDC doesn't currently have a working test for the CV so there is no telling how many cases the US actually has atm.



Can you elaborate?  It's not hard to diagnose COVID-19...lab tests, CT imaging...  The FDA is actually bypassing normal channels with EUAs to give more labs approval for testing.  I think there are, or shortly will be, 40 labs in the US for testing.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 2, 2020)

Something about this whole issue stinks.
Did China over react?  if so why?
Our numbers are not as drastic (could change) but everyone acts like the Black Death has re-emerged.

Facts just are not adding up for me.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 2, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Something about this whole issue stinks.
> Did China over react?  if so why?
> Our numbers are not as drastic (could change) but everyone acts like the Black Death has re-emerged.
> 
> Facts just are not adding up for me.



We have a campus in China, a few hours from Wuhan.  Our people are about as engaged as any group of people can be.  Not for circulation, after a working group about CODIV-19, some of our folks were complaining--rightfully so--that China has engaged in so much misinformation, regardless of reason, that you cannot make any logical conclusions about what is happening.  The people saying this are people in leadership with ties to leadership in China, and we are so frustrated that we simply stopped believing what China is putting out.

There are a few reasons to be concerned (but not panic):  it seems to be highly virulent, it goes from 'meh' to bad quickly, and it does not follow epidemiological modeling.

I would expect our numbers to climb (no reason to think it won't), so we'll have a better grasp in a few weeks.

FWIW, and I tell this to people:  I have access to literally thousands of N95 masks; I have not picked up a single mask, nor have I changed plans to take my family to NYC on vacation for 5 days in May.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 2, 2020)

Related to Devildoc's post: 

Beijing Purges Wuhan: The CCP Central Authorities Tighten Political Control Over Hubei Province - Jamestown


----------



## Brill (Mar 2, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> FWIW, and I tell this to people:  I have access to literally thousands of N95 masks; I have not picked up a single mask, nor have I changed plans to take my family to NYC on vacation for 5 days in May.



Would you be unmasked seeing a patient who has flu symptoms? Not being a dicker doo, but honestly curious when medical professionals mask up.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 2, 2020)

lindy said:


> Would you be unmasked seeing a patient who has flu symptoms? Not being a dicker doo, but honestly curious when medical professionals mask up.



What I should do, and what I would do are two separate things   

Flu is droplet, so you are _supposed_ to use a mask and eyewear.  A surgical mask, though, not a N95.  Me?  Having had the flu shot and knowing probabilities, I would not wear a mask.  I might if the patient is hacking all about, but all cuddled up in blankies in the fetal position trying to stay warm while they feel like shit?  Prolly not.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 2, 2020)

Seen in a Walmart in Toronto.   Apparently there's chaos of people stocking up and shelves are empty at some Costco's.  A few day's ago one of our government Minister's told people to stock up and isolate if infected, so people are going crazy. 

People are sharing images of long lines, empty shelves at Costco amid COVID-19


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 2, 2020)

So if the infection rate in Italy is spiking so high...what are China's actual numbers?


----------



## Brill (Mar 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Seen in a Walmart in Toronto.   Apparently there's chaos of people stocking up and shelves are empty at some Costco's.  A few day's ago one of our government Minister's told people to stock up and isolate if infected, so people are going crazy.
> 
> People are sharing images of long lines, empty shelves at Costco amid COVID-19
> 
> View attachment 32348


 
I bet she farts...intentionally...while wearing that suit.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 2, 2020)

Here's more.  Nothing like a federal Health Minister inciting panic amongst the population. 

Coronavirus fears prompt empty shelves as Canadians follow health minister’s advice to stock up


----------



## CQB (Mar 2, 2020)

So there’s been Sydney flu, (A/Sydney/5/97), bird flu (H5N1), swine flu (H1N1) & now this one. Doesn’t anyone quietly stock in advance for eventualities? Too late for some.


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 2, 2020)

I stock up guns and ammo to take away peoples food stocks


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 2, 2020)

These “stocking up” people remind me of some fable about a squirrel who stocks for the winter and the rabbit that has no interest and starves to death.  

I’ve got enough water and  canned/frozen food and veggies to live comfortably for about 2 months. Not expecting to ever need it, and I rotate it out, but with the occasional 3-day snow storm or summer power outage, I take great pride in not being one of the douche bags at Walmart hoarding all the milk and bread while the local TV stations show me on TV doing so.


----------



## Dame (Mar 2, 2020)

CQB said:


> So there’s been Sydney flu, (A/Sydney/5/97), bird flu (H5N1), swine flu (H1N1) & now this one. Doesn’t anyone quietly stock in advance for eventualities? Too late for some.


yes


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 2, 2020)

CQB said:


> So there’s been Sydney flu, (A/Sydney/5/97), bird flu (H5N1), swine flu (H1N1) & now this one. Doesn’t anyone quietly stock in advance for eventualities? Too late for some.


The mad Aussie rush for bread and milk when the weather is fucked...only the milk will go off in a matter of hours when the power eventually goes out and you won’t be able to freeze the bread either...

Good times.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 2, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Can you elaborate?  It's not hard to diagnose COVID-19...lab tests, CT imaging...  The FDA is actually bypassing normal channels with EUAs to give more labs approval for testing.  I think there are, or shortly will be, 40 labs in the US for testing.


A working test kit. At least that was what I heard on the news which may or may not be true.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 2, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> I stock up guns and ammo to take away peoples food stocks


Same here.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 2, 2020)

Protip: It's a good idea to wash your fucking hands and not cough or sneeze on other people even when we aren't faced with a global pandemic.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 2, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Protip: It's a good idea to wash your fucking hands and not cough or sneeze on other people even when we aren't faced with a global pandemic.



Bah humbug. Builds a stronger immune system.



😏


----------



## Bambi (Mar 2, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Protip: It's a good idea to wash your fucking hands and not cough or sneeze on other people even when we aren't faced with a global pandemic.


I dunno, soccer moms selling essential oils on Facebook may be our only hope...


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 3, 2020)

First scare of a pandemic and now the liberals are preppers


----------



## CQB (Mar 3, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> The mad Aussie rush for bread and milk when the weather is fucked...only the milk will go off in a matter of hours when the power eventually goes out and you won’t be able to freeze the bread either...
> 
> Good times.


It's kinda not that bad, but I dig the braille. 

Interesting points came across my desk a day ago; our borders (thus possibly everyone elses) are leaky. An Uber driver mate whose info I have no reason to doubt has picked up passengers from a) Shanghai & b) Singapore. Mr. A wouldn't reveal how he managed to get in despite a travel ban from the PRC & had been in country two days. Mr. B was smarter, allegedly a dual passport holder, flew from '_shi kou' _China, transited Singapore to Oz using the second passport. Voila!


----------



## Muppet (Mar 3, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2020)

40 states either have or soon will have testing in place.  North Carolina is up and running:

State laboratory officials say they are now able to test for COVID-19 :: WRAL.com


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> These “stocking up” people remind me of some fable about a squirrel who stocks for the winter and the rabbit that has no interest and starves to death.
> 
> I’ve got enough water and  canned/frozen food and veggies to live comfortably for about 2 months. Not expecting to ever need it, and I rotate it out, but with the occasional 3-day snow storm or summer power outage, I take great pride in not being one of the douche bags at Walmart hoarding all the milk and bread while the local TV stations show me on TV doing so.


You realize that you're an outlier there? Most Americans do their shopping once or twice a week and/or frequent fast food restaurants on the regular. For students and professionals, cooking and shopping for groceries takes time and resources they don't really have. Not to mention the space needed for preps.

Even if Americans were more prepared, the last thing on anyone's mind is a containment breach at a Chinese bio weapons lab. Heck, this virus is going to sink our bloated healthcare system. If anything, the PPE shortage debacle is just a symptom of how bad things are.

Think about it. For the many Americans living on narrow margins Covid is going to be a kick in the nuts. Even if we do the containment thing here, the people living paycheck to paycheck may not be able to afford taking two weeks off. It's not like mortgages, rent, bills, etc, aren't going to be due. Those are the people that are going to wait until the last minute to stock up on bread and milk.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> You realize that you're an outlier there? Most Americans do their shopping once or twice a week and/or frequent fast food restaurants on the regular. For students and professionals, cooking and shopping for groceries takes time and resources they don't really have. Not to mention the space needed for preps.





R.Caerbannog said:


> Think about it. For the many Americans living on narrow margins Covid is going to be a kick in the nuts. Even if we do the containment thing here, the people living paycheck to paycheck may not be able to afford taking two weeks off. It's not like mortgages, rent, bills, etc, aren't going to be due. Those are the people that are going to wait until the last minute to stock up on bread and milk.


I think we are talking about 2 different things.  

Can I control if I am told not to come to work for 2 weeks and not get paid?  Nope.

Can I be a forward thinker and over time stash away a few dollars that are not to be touched?  A few cans of ’this and that’ a month or a few gallons of water ‘here and there’ to make sure I can sit out something as simple as a city gas leak, winter snow storm, or water contamination issue?  Your damn right I can, and I always have, even when I was that young adult living in a ‘studio’ with no room or money for ‘anything’.

I liken it to taking the time to getting a permit to carry and then training.  If Fred starts popping off rounds at the local Pizza Hut, I’m grabbing ‘mine’ and getting us out.  I feel bad for those left behind, but they made their choices and I’ve made mine.

Very little sympathy for those who choose to ignore/mock the squirrel because ....whatever....

Maybe I do not understand your point, but it almost sounds like you are making excuses for those who choose to ignore the falling sky; which based on what I know of you, would really surprise me actually.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> It's kinda not that bad, but I dig the braille.
> 
> Interesting points came across my desk a day ago; our borders (thus possibly everyone elses) are leaky. An Uber driver mate whose info I have no reason to doubt has picked up passengers from a) Shanghai & b) Singapore. Mr. A wouldn't reveal how he managed to get in despite a travel ban from the PRC & had been in country two days. Mr. B was smarter, allegedly a dual passport holder, flew from '_shi kou' _China, transited Singapore to Oz using the second passport. Voila!


Getting the feeling that after Covid ravages the world and kills a chunk of the global population, people aren't gonna trust China ever again. I'm thinking, Chinese Exclusion Act part Dos: Corona International.



Ooh-Rah said:


> I think we are talking about 2 different things.
> 
> Can I control if I am told not to come to work for 2 weeks and not get paid?  Nope.
> 
> ...


I'm trying to reiterate that you are a tortoise amongst hares. The rest of the populace, let alone the world, has been caught flatfooted. Unless you're living in the middle of nowhere and independent of power, water, and sewage, the actions of your fellow citizens will affect you and your loved ones.

I know it sounds silly, but I'm thinking everyone is about to get rocked. Preps aside, this virus is going to reveal some of the ugly divides in our country. (Think rural vs city)


----------



## CQB (Mar 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Getting the feeling that after Covid ravages the world and kills a chunk of the global population, people aren't gonna trust China ever again. I'm thinking, Chinese Exclusion Act part Dos: Corona International.


There's a high level of distrust here in government already.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 3, 2020)

First case in NC about 20 miles from here, thankfully being handled by the public health entity of the next county over.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2020)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> There's a high level of distrust here in government already.


Awesome, I hope that grows to the point where the public starts tossing Chicoms and their lackeys into shark infested waters.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 3, 2020)

I’m trying to find the link to where I saw this, but something like 8% of the Iranian parliament has it.

ETA: found it on CNN’s twitter feed.


----------



## CQB (Mar 4, 2020)

I went to do the weeks foraging & there’s been some empty shelves: toilet paper (natch), baked beans & ketchup, pasta & rice. Bottled water was a surprise as there’s no indication that currently there’s no threat from tap water. Some folks need to dial it down a bit.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 4, 2020)

@CQB Yep, no shit tickets at Coles or Woolworths this morning. I don’t know what everyone’s sudden obsession with toilet paper is. Hope they restock soon or I’ll be having a couple of extra showers a day.

One thing is for certain in the next few months when this thing peaks, and that is that Keith Richards will be perfectly fine.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 4, 2020)

Great, looks like the CDC is screwing off again. South Korea has drive through testing and we're stuck with these halfwits. 

CDC blocked FDA official from premises

U.S. health officials probe coronavirus test problems at CDC


----------



## Bypass (Mar 4, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’m trying to find the link to where I saw this, but something like 8% of the Iranian parliament has it.
> 
> ETA: found it on CNN’s twitter feed.


Couldn't have happened to a nicer group of guys. They will be in my prayers to allah that are in the trash bin.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 4, 2020)

Neat video from a gal that lived through the 1918 pandemic,


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 4, 2020)

So...this is funny: 8% of Iran's parliament has the coronavirus, and it released 54,000 prisoners as the country descends into chaos

Like wtf are you doing releasing a bunch of prisoners and how does 8% of your parliament have Coronavirus. Holee sheet.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 4, 2020)

Porn always finds a way. lol

Coronavirus Porn Is Going Viral on Pornhub


----------



## Butthead (Mar 4, 2020)

A small (very small) part of me is glad it has reached the US simply because of how large of a presence social media and open communication is here. I'm thinking depending on how the coronavirus acts here in the states, will tell us if China really is hiding or downplaying the virus.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 4, 2020)

Butthead said:


> A small (very small) part of me is glad it has reached the US simply because of how large of a presence social media and open communication is here. I'm thinking depending on how the coronavirus acts here in the states, will tell us if China really is hiding or downplaying the virus.


106 diagnosed cases and already 8 deaths. Eeeek!!!


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 4, 2020)

The guy in North Carolina, he was at the nursing home in Seattle.  There's his nexus.  He's doing quite well, quarantined at home.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 4, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Porn always finds a way. lol
> 
> Coronavirus Porn Is Going Viral on Pornhub


I know a doctor who might be able to help if he’s finished up at NASA, being a plumber, school teacher, soldier and accountant.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 4, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Mar 4, 2020)

And I'm scheduled for vacation in May! Heathrow to some other large airport...Maybe I can be Patient 0 at work and in my 'hood.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> And I'm scheduled for vacation in May! Heathrow to some other large airport...Maybe I can be Patient 0 at work and in my 'hood.



Hear me out, fly from your current location to China, then Seattle.....you should be set!!!!


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> And I'm scheduled for vacation in May! Heathrow to some other large airport...Maybe I can be Patient 0 at work and in my 'hood.



Meet me at an airport, from a long distance. Only so so I can claim contact. That way, nobody bothers me at dinner or the bar. The way I like it...covid-19 possible.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 5, 2020)

Apparently we owe China our gratitude for gifting the world with Covid-19. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1235488950254358528
I sincerely hope that China goes back to being a worthless backwater and their leaders are burnt at the stake. Bunch of psychopathic idiot commies.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 5, 2020)

I couldn't tell you how much Chipotle I ate during the e-coli outbreak...what's a little super-flu? 

In all seriousness...this provides some stats behind the virus. We'll see how it stacks up against the 1918 flu. 

Who is getting sick? A look at coronavirus risk by age, gender, and more


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 5, 2020)

Numbers coming out of Italy. (Which I trust more than China)
Covid-19 - Situazione in Italia


Spoiler: Image and translation of Italy's #'s




Press conference of the Head of Civil Protection Angelo Borrelli at 6 pm on March 4:

3089 people who contracted the virus, 107 died and 276 recovered.

Among the 2706 positives:

1065 are found in home isolation
1346 hospitalized with symptoms
295 in intensive care

Here are the confirmed cases of Coronavirus in the Regions:

1820 Lombardy
544 Emilia-Romagna
360 Veneto
84 Brands
82 Piedmont
38 Tuscany
31 Campania
30 Lazio
26 Liguria
18 Friuli Venezia Giulia
18 Sicily
9 Puglia
9 Umbria
7 Abruzzo
5 Autonomous Province of Trento
3 Molise
2 Sardinia
1 Basilicata
1 Calabria
1 Autonomous Province of Bolzano

Notice: starting from February 28th the daily update of the Civil Protection will be held only at 6pm.
Notice: as of February 28, the number of deceased will be confirmed by the Higher Institute of Health after establishing the cause of death from Coronavirus.


Total for Italy is: 3089 total people who've contracted the virus, 107 died, and 276 recovered.
Fatality rate: 3.46%

Current people who've tested positive for virus is at 2709. Of those 1046 are in home isolation, 1346 are hospitalized w/symptoms, and 295 are under intensive care.
Intensive care rate: 10.9%
Total hospitalization rate (including those in intensive care): 60.57%

Add on: In the link the Italians traced the initial outbreak of Covid-19 to two Chinese tourists on Jan 30th, with the first case of secondary transmission on Feb 18th.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Numbers coming out of Italy. (Which I trust more than China)
> Covid-19 - Situazione in Italia
> 
> 
> ...


Great use of the Spoiler function.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Great use of the Spoiler function.


Thanks, figured people might want a more streamlined version of the data without having to do the google translate bit.


----------



## medicchick (Mar 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Thanks, figured people might want a more streamlined version of the data without having to do the google translate bit.


For those of us browsing via phone it's appreciated.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 5, 2020)

medicchick said:


> For those of us browsing via phone it's appreciated.



I thought that was how we all browsed???


----------



## medicchick (Mar 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I thought that was how we all browsed???


I'm usually on a desktop/laptop.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 5, 2020)

I keep my rig off the internet aside from gaming connections. Everything I do on the internet is via tablet or phone.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 5, 2020)

By the way, if anyone here games and/or needs parts for their computer I suggest you get them sooner rather than later. Looks like we'll be seeing price increases and shortages of consumer electronics as current stocks dwindle.

Even if what you buy isn't 'made' in China, many of that devices sub-components are.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 6, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> By the way, if anyone here games and/or needs parts for their computer I suggest you get them sooner rather than later. Looks like we'll be seeing price increases and shortages of consumer electronics as current stocks dwindle.
> 
> Even if what you buy isn't 'made' in China, many of that devices sub-components are.


Possibly. On the other side of things, you can grab a VA loan from navy fed for 2.625% 😲


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 6, 2020)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 6, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Possibly. On the other side of things, you can grab a VA loan from navy fed for 2.625% 😲


I still get the feeling I'd loose out on any savings when I factor in the looming shortage of construction materials. On the other hand... if we loose 3% of our population and PRC citizens become personae non gratae, I can see the real estate market really opening up. 

Either way, this is going to be a giant shit sandwich and we're all taking a bite. Fucking China. 

Add on (money laundering and parking money offshore):
BC Mayors Inquiry into links between money laundering, fentanyl, and real estate


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 6, 2020)

If you don't follow OJ....you should!


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 6, 2020)

He could hole up from the police for like 2 weeks with all that.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 6, 2020)

Wondering if I should build a stockade around the wellhead.

LL


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 6, 2020)

No need if you have good covering fire.


----------



## Dame (Mar 6, 2020)

Meanwhile, in China...



> Hu Xijin, the editor of the widely-read Chinese state-backed tabloid the Global Times, wrote on Twitter that President Donald Trump administration’s attempts “to downplay the epidemic is disturbing."
> 
> “I have called on Chinese local governments to implement 14-day quarantine for all people coming from the U.S.,” he wrote.



New coronavirus infections may drop to zero by end-March in Wuhan: Chinese government expert


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 6, 2020)

Another local case about 20 miles from here.  Guy was in Italy, got sick there, and was sick when he flew back.


----------



## AWP (Mar 6, 2020)

If anyone on the planet understands multiple dead people, it is OJ...


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 6, 2020)

Not gonna lose any sleep over this one.

Former Hostage Taker of US Diplomats Dies of Coronavirus in Iran


----------



## medicchick (Mar 7, 2020)

Confirmed case in my county, not worried.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 7, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Confirmed case in my county, not worried.



In your county, I'd be worried.  Not so much about catching virus as the other sheeple's panic.

LL


----------



## Dame (Mar 7, 2020)

Just what the hell? China's safety protocols are like pirate code. More of a guideline. 
Hotel collapse traps 70 in eastern China


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 7, 2020)

Dame said:


> Just what the hell? China's safety protocols are like pirate code. More of a guideline.
> Hotel collapse traps 70 in eastern China



As if having Corona wasn't enough...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 7, 2020)




----------



## Teufel (Mar 7, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If you don't follow OJ....you should!
> 
> View attachment 32402


Honestly most people are probably at a higher risk of death from OJ Simpson than the Coronavirus.


----------



## AWP (Mar 8, 2020)

Youtube is demonetizing videos that even mention coronavirus/ Covid-19, or anything similar. Any mention, even video game content creators or tech channels talking about it as a news item, will see the video demonetized. 

YouTube is demonetizing videos about coronavirus, and creators are mad

YouTube Is Demonetizing Coronavirus Videos Under Its Long-Standing "Sensitive Events" Policy - Tubefilter


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> Youtube is demonetizing videos that even mention coronavirus/ Covid-19, or anything similar. Any mention, even video game content creators or tech channels talking about it as a news item, will see the video demonetized.
> 
> YouTube is demonetizing videos about coronavirus, and creators are mad
> 
> YouTube Is Demonetizing Coronavirus Videos Under Its Long-Standing "Sensitive Events" Policy - Tubefilter


Looks like they're trying to discourage the spread of information via financial means. A cynic would say that Youtube is either trying to protect it's ad- revenue and/or is sucking the CCP's schlong to keep the status quo.

On the other hand, some of the 'viral content' content on Youtube is derpy click-bait. I wouldn't put it past some 'Youtubers' to spread fear in exchange for likes and subscribers. Fear sells and when it's paired with a monetary mechanism it's liable to spread unchecked.


----------



## AWP (Mar 8, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Looks like they're trying to discourage the spread of information via financial means. A cynic would say that Youtube is either trying to protect it's ad- revenue and/or is sucking the CCP's schlong to keep the status quo.
> 
> On the other hand, some of the 'viral content' content on Youtube is derpy click-bait. I wouldn't put it past some 'Youtubers' to spread fear in exchange for likes and subscribers. Fear sells and when it's paired with a monetary mechanism it's liable to spread unchecked.



Destiny 2 content creators are being demonetized over this:

This Week At Bungie – 3/5/2020 > News | Bungie.net


> Before we get started with the rest of the TWAB, I wanted to take a quick moment to highlight another blog post that went live earlier today. In response to the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak, our teams have been working hard to build out an infrastructure that would enable Bungie employees to support Destiny 2, and the impending Season 10 release, safely from remote locations. Season of the Worthy is still planned to release on March 10, followed by the return of Trials of Osiris on March 13. While there is a possibility that this change could affect our patching cadence in the short term, we will be sure to keep players informed about those schedules as much as possible. Stay tuned to @Bungie and @BungieHelp for any future updates.



YT is preventing content creators from making money...by reporting news. Game news, not fake news, not CNN vs Fox shyte...news stright from a company's mouth. The mere mention of Covid-19 has YT in an uproar.

Cynical people, and I'm as rainbows and sunshine as they come, could argue this is the result of Chinese dollars invested in US companies.

Regardless, Profit > 1st Amendment > Actual facts.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> Destiny 2 content creators are being demonetized over this:
> 
> This Week At Bungie – 3/5/2020 > News | Bungie.net
> 
> ...


Well, they are a multinational who've whored themselves out to the Chicoms. It's not like YT are big proponents of truth and justice, their business model revolves around advertising slave made trinkets and generating user profiles that would make the NSA/Intel geeks blush. (No offense to my fellow D&D nerds.)

If anything, things are about to get worse before they get any better. I just hope to God that after this pandemic is through and our dead are buried that we exact a heavy toll on the Chicoms and their supporters both here and abroad. Asia needs to burn and their commie sympathizers need to burn with them. (Talking about you Pakistan and Iran)


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 8, 2020)

Or maybe they're just trying to be responsible considering their influence.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 8, 2020)

On a lighter note, if I were one of them youtube gamers I'd be stocking up on boxes of cheesy poofs and pallets of Mountain Dew. Cause grocery resupply runs are gonna be a bitch when quarantines hit and everyone is sick.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 8, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Or maybe they're just trying to be responsible considering their influence.



Pardon me while I laugh out loud. Responsibility and YouTube don’t belong in the same thought.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 8, 2020)

YouTube's algorithm is awful, but it's impossible to control what sort of content gets cleared with a story like this. We'd all prefer that it separate the clicky-baity stupid shit from the actual news, but that's basically impossible with the 500+ hours of video uploaded every minute.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 8, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> How so?



Start with the fact that most corporations won't act responsibly unless it's in line with some kind of outside motivation, add in YouTube's fairly blatant manipulation of their recommendation and search algorithms (accompanied by frequently lying about it), add in Silicon Valley's tendency to court Chinese financing (who, BTW, have a LOT of interest in implementing the kind of message control Google and YouTube are capable of), and ice it with incredibly weak leadership on the part of Sandberg and Pichai... yeah, I don't think they've (either YouTube or parent Google) acted "responsibly" (or even attempted to) in years... if ever.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> Youtube is demonetizing videos that even mention coronavirus/ Covid-19, or anything similar. Any mention, even video game content creators or tech channels talking about it as a news item, will see the video demonetized.
> 
> YouTube is demonetizing videos about coronavirus, and creators are mad
> 
> YouTube Is Demonetizing Coronavirus Videos Under Its Long-Standing "Sensitive Events" Policy - Tubefilter



Very interesting, especially the part about how “white listed” companies can continue to get paid for ads in “sensitive content.”


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 9, 2020)

Spoiler: Looks like even the Hollywood Elite are susceptible....


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 9, 2020)

DJIA down 2000 points today.  Big yikes!


----------



## Brill (Mar 9, 2020)

Americans are funny as hell.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236832933958336518


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 9, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> DJIA down 2000 points today.  Big yikes!


Yep... people are waking up. Also looks like the Saudis and Russians are boosting oil production while Chinese demand has sharply dropped. The world is about to see a glut of cheap oil on the market. Globalism and interconnectivity are about to screw us over, bigly.

On the bright side, conservative nationalism is gonna be huuuge. Especially, when people find out how China screwed the world via virus and how the Rus & Sauds just screwed the petro markets.


----------



## CQB (Mar 9, 2020)

Too good to pass up. In our national daily today (p.12) that old phoney John Pilger claims the carona virus is being used as an excuse to start a war with China. 🏆


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 9, 2020)

CQB said:


> Too good to pass up. In our national daily today (p.12) that old phoney John Pilger claims the carona virus is being used as an excuse to start a war with China. 🏆


And after John checks that his opinion has been published he proudly glances over at his 20 multipacks of Quilton’s toilet paper. 

He’s ready for this storm.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 9, 2020)

CQB said:


> Too good to pass up. In our national daily today (p.12) that old phoney John Pilger claims the carona virus is being used as an excuse to start a war with China. 🏆



Bit of a fuckwit that one.


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 9, 2020)

Training canceled in Cocoa Beach (Patrick AFB)....dammit...was looking forward to a week there....damn you China!!!


----------



## compforce (Mar 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep... people are waking up. Also looks like the Saudis and Russians are boosting oil production while Chinese demand has sharply dropped. The world is about to see a glut of cheap oil on the market. Globalism and interconnectivity are about to screw us over, bigly.
> 
> On the bright side, conservative nationalism is gonna be huuuge. Especially, when people find out how China screwed the world via virus and how the Rus & Sauds just screwed the petro markets.



Sure am glad my positions are overwhelmingly on the short side...  46% gain today overall it's more than 300% since last week.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 9, 2020)

compforce said:


> Sure am glad my positions are overwhelmingly on the short side...  46% gain today overall it's more than 300% since last week.



Via options or legit shorts?


----------



## compforce (Mar 9, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Via options or legit shorts?



Options (long puts).  I wanted the extra leverage.  BTW, that's just the growth on the paper price  I have a couple of them that were long shots that are ITM now at an intrinsic value that is significantly higher than the paper.


----------



## Brill (Mar 9, 2020)

compforce said:


> Sure am glad my positions are overwhelmingly on the short side...  46% gain today overall it's more than 300% since last week.



@Kaldak, here’s your chance to ban him!


----------



## CQB (Mar 9, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Bit of a fuckwit that one.


Too true, I went to his latest offering some time ago on the PRC, with a Q&A...it was terrible. Just Yank bashing for 50 odd minutes & then 20 on China. Pathetic, considering it was meant to be an in-depth look at China in the South Pacific & environs.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 9, 2020)

CQB said:


> Too true, I went to his latest offering some time ago on the PRC, with a Q&A...it was terrible. Just Yank bashing for 50 odd minutes & then 20 on China. Pathetic, considering it was meant to be an in-depth look at China in the South Pacific & environs.



No real surprise there. I mean, the man is 80; he's not changing his views any time soon. I think he just wants the predictions in that last book to come true, which would be a shit thing to happen for every one.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep... people are waking up. Also looks like the Saudis and Russians are boosting oil production while Chinese demand has sharply dropped. The world is about to see a glut of cheap oil on the market. Globalism and interconnectivity are about to screw us over, bigly.
> 
> On the bright side, conservative nationalism is gonna be huuuge. Especially, when people find out how China screwed the world via virus and how the Rus & Sauds just screwed the petro markets.



Glut...dude, we've been at capacity for oil storage for sometime.  That's why prices haven't really budged in three years.

What will I tell my children about the great Costco Toilet Paper heist?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 10, 2020)

compforce said:


> Sure am glad my positions are overwhelmingly on the short side...  46% gain today overall it's more than 300% since last week.


Noice!!!


ThunderHorse said:


> Glut...dude, we've been at capacity for oil storage for sometime.  That's why prices haven't really budged in three years.
> 
> What will I tell my children about the great Costco Toilet Paper heist?


Well yeah... we might be at capacity, but that don't mean our 'friends' and 'allies' aren't going to take advantage of super cheap oil. (There go our exports.) Aww, heck. If there is enough spill over, we may see foreign oil drive fuel costs down at home as well. Woohoo! Cheap gas! Sigh... but nowhere to drive.

With the Russians and Saudis opening up the taps, I'm guessing the Canadian and American energy sectors are looking at hard times.

As for the great TP shortage... I wouldn't sweat it. Our national timber and paper producing industry is legit, they were probably caught flatfooted with people stocking up. Heck, alot of industries have been caught flatfooted by the Chinese unleashing a pandemic.

What would worry me are the industries that are completely reliant on Chinese resources or goods. Medical goods and medicines... yikes! Toilet paper and Doritos... we're okay!


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Well yeah... we might be at capacity, but that don't mean our 'friends' and 'allies' aren't going to take advantage of super cheap oil. (There go our exports.) Aww, heck. If there is enough spill over, we may see foreign oil drive fuel costs down at home as well. Woohoo! Cheap gas! Sigh... but nowhere to drive.
> 
> With the Russians and Saudis opening up the taps, I'm guessing the Canadian and American energy sectors are looking at hard times.
> 
> ...



Thankfully I'm deployed so I don't have to deal with any of real life's bullshit. This whole TP shortage thing is hilarious. Everyone talking about panic buying, I call it a regular day at Costco.


----------



## AWP (Mar 10, 2020)

What a great time to be alive! Trump in office, toilet paper shortage, a virus that will kill us before Greta Thurnberg's global warming, the Vikings keeping the Saints from the Super Bowl AGAIN, Sanders getting screwed by his own party AGAIN, the erosition of your Constitutional rights continues, cheap gas, an uncontested Shadowspear mod election, hurricanes that swallow states, 24/7 free porn, peace in Afghanistan...the list goes on.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Thankfully I'm deployed so I don't have to deal with any of real life's bullshit. This whole TP shortage thing is hilarious. Everyone talking about panic buying, I call it a regular day at Costco.


What worries me is the panic that's going to hit when the rest of the population wises up. People are about to get a rude awakening, especially the SJW brainwashed social classes.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 10, 2020)

Corona virus press briefing.





Try to ignore some of the vermin reporters making derpy political statements and asking dumb questions. 
(Starts @ approx 1:30:00 in case the time embed didn't work)


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> What worries me is the panic that's going to hit when the rest of the population wises up. People are about to get a rude awakening, especially the SJW brainwashed social classes.



I'm ready to party. What we really need...Is a hero to save us.

ETA: oh fuck it since I can't get the spoiler tag to work.


----------



## AWP (Mar 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm ready to party. What we really need...Is a hero to save us.
> 
> ETA: of fuck it since I can't get the spoiler tag to work.



Ladies and Gentlemen, if you need a demonstration of how it must suck to suck...I give you the quoted post.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 10, 2020)




----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Mar 10, 2020)

Coming back from Afg soon and wondering if I should buy toilet paper here and bring it home??


----------



## Bambi (Mar 10, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Coming back from Afg soon and wondering if I should buy toilet paper here and bring it home??


use your hands like the rest of us, buying supplies for yourself is selfish and that’s how diseases spread! /s


----------



## AWP (Mar 10, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Coming back from Afg soon and wondering if I should buy toilet paper here and bring it home??



Considering the hysteria sweeping the planet, I think the board would rather you buy a few tootsie rolls of hashish and a 10 year old instead of falling for the bullshit spread by the MSM.

* - We're not there yet, but ya' get where I'm going, right? Hyperbole and all...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> Considering the hysteria sweeping the planet, I think the board would rather you buy a few tootsie rolls of hashish and a 10 year old instead of falling for the bullshit spread by the MSM.
> 
> * - We're not there yet, but ya' get where I'm going, right? Hyperbole and all...



Tootsie rolls?  I want full bricks!


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 10, 2020)

NC just declared a state of emergency.  We have 7 cases.  What.  THE.  Fuck.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 10, 2020)

^ Right?!  People need to chill the fuck out; they're losing their damn minds.

There is absolutely zero perspective on this.  The media has some culpability here.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> NC just declared a state of emergency.  We have 7 cases.  What.  THE.  Fuck.



Oh, sounds similar to the 2019 "outbreak!" of the black lung caused my black market vaping.  

Outbreak of Lung Injury Associated with the Use of E-Cigarette, or Vaping, Products | Electronic Cigarettes | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 10, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Mar 10, 2020)

So this convo just happened:

Boss:  What is plan B if we have to cancel the mass training event (2,200 participants) the week of March 23?

Me:  Uhhhh... (knowing full well there is not one).  I will have one to you in 10 minutes.

10 minutes later, my Boss, after I gave her a full PACE plan:  You are a genius, why can't everyone else do this?

Me:  Because I am special, and not in the high IQ sort of way....(she laughs, I laugh, I keep my job.....)

Local (not mine) hospital planning to halt any gatherings greater than 50 people.  We are being asked to assess all of our educational needs to see if we can reschedule, postpone, or cancel.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Oh, sounds similar to the 2019 "outbreak!" of the black lung caused my black market vaping.


Reminds me a bit of everyone losing their damn minds after 9/11 due to anthrax/white powder scare.  There was a run gas masks...🤭


----------



## Bambi (Mar 10, 2020)

Happened 30 minutes ago, I work on a farm with my dad for now, around 4 people work here including the bossman (when the mexicanos are back in Mexico) 
Boss: I may not hire as many Mexicans as last year
Me: Why?? We were hurting last year!
Boss: With this Coronavirus going around, I can’t risk it.
Everybody else: *collective sigh*


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 10, 2020)

NY mobilized the NG for a suburb of NYC to "scrub surfaces and deliver food".

Headline sounds worse.

National Guard is sent into New York suburb to control virus

Is it just me or does this action and NC State of Emergency seem more politically motivated than truly in the best interests?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 10, 2020)

Went into a meeting a little bit ago and went to shake hands...

Bus. Partner:  "Sorry, I can't shake your hand....it's not the coronavirus, I ran out of toilet paper."

Me: Bwahahahahaha 🤣


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't this for everyone but sharing this deal because I love y'all:


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 10, 2020)

Boy, things are happening fast and furious. Our university has suspended classroom instruction until further notice, people who have gone away from spring break are told to not come back until further notice.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 10, 2020)




----------



## Brill (Mar 10, 2020)




----------



## DA SWO (Mar 10, 2020)

lindy said:


> View attachment 32445


Stolen


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Boy, things are happening fast and furious. Our university has suspended classroom instruction until further notice, people who have gone away from spring break are told to not come back until further notice.



I got the same - face-to-face classes are suspended in prep for a transition to online-only starting next week.  I'm not sure it's necessary; in the grand scheme of things though it's also a relatively mild disruption that can be worked through.


----------



## AWP (Mar 10, 2020)

GMBN, a mountain bike YT channel, has a weekly show where it covers news, race results, crashes, interviews, etc. Watching this week they covered how at least one rider was unable to compete down in New Zealand because he flew in from Italy and was quarantined. 

Demonetized.

A channel with 1.33 million subscribers covering a legit news story had a video demonetized.

Insane.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 10, 2020)

AWP said:


> GMBN, a mountain bike YT channel, has a weekly show where it covers news, race results, crashes, interviews, etc. Watching this week they covered how at least one rider was unable to compete down in New Zealand because he flew in from Italy and was quarantined.
> 
> Demonetized.
> 
> ...


How'd you find that out?  I don't see anything from them.  That means pretty much the entire network of channels will be demonetized since GCN and GTN also have Coronavirus news stories.

However, I would say that youtube ad revenue is small compared to what they bring in from sponsors.


----------



## AWP (Mar 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> How'd you find that out?  I don't see anything from them.  That means pretty much the entire network of channels will be demonetized since GCN and GTN also have Coronavirus news stories.
> 
> However, I would say that youtube ad revenue is small compared to what they bring in from sponsors.



A lack of ads. You have 2-3 "cut scene" ads for Toyota, but no ads on the bottom. I thinik it was Datto, a Destiny 2 content creator, who had a mention or two of it last week and his video was in the same boat: no ads at the bottom.

I agree with you on their revenue stream, but it still blows my mind YT is doing this.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 10, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (Mar 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


>


Sorry, but I'm gonna say enough bullshit.

I know of Michael Osterholm; he hails from my neck of the woods.  More importantly, he's one of these "doomsday" alarmists.  It doesn't help.

Consider some of his past "expert" forecasts:

Chicken Little


			
				New Republic article on Avian flu from 2005 said:
			
		

> "...And, among these doomsayers, none has been more strident than former Minnesota Department of Health epidemiologist Michael T. Osterholm, now head of the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy.
> 
> In a series of articles for the _New England Journal of Medicine, Nature, _and _Foreign Affairs_, Osterholm threatens us with nothing less than the end of civilization...
> 
> ...



No More Crying 'Spanish Flu'


			
				Forbes article in 2010 said:
			
		

> "...Michael Osterholm, director of the federal Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy estimated in 2005 in _The New England Journal of Medicine_, that there would be 180-360 million deaths worldwide and 1.7 million here if bird flu became readily transmissible between humans. He restated those figures during countless national TV appearances. His source: An extrapolation to today’s population from the worst estimates of Spanish Flu fatalities..."



Researchers: No strong evidence chronic wasting disease could infect humans, but it's possible


			
				Coloradan article on chronic wasting disease in early 2019 said:
			
		

> An infectious disease expert predicts chronic wasting disease will be transmitted to humans, and possibly in substantial numbers, according to a recent article in USA TODAY.
> 
> "In the USA Today story published Feb. 16, Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, was quoted as saying, "It is probable that human cases of chronic wasting disease associated with consumption with contaminated meat will be documented in the years ahead. It's possible the number of human cases will be substantial and will not be isolated events.''"



These are just a few examples...based on known outcomes!   So, sorry if I don't take the word of some "expert" on the Joe Rogan show. 

BTW:  How does one get to be so wrong, yet still be called an expert.  It's akin to being a Bigfoot expert.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 11, 2020)

@Blizzard I get you don't trust the guy, but the majority of what's said in that 10 min clip is true. The initial estimates of the # of dead, cutthroat triage going on in Italy, rate of infection, morbidity, and supply chain issues are all very real. Reason I posted that Rogan vid is because of it's digestibility.

All this has been out on the web for days, weeks, and even months. Based on the information that has been out, we're in for a kick in the nads. Covid-19 is going to catch a large chunk of our populace with their pants down. Like it or not, Covid's here and it's about to lay bare the many deficiencies in our supply chains, society, and govt.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Blizzard
> Covid-19 is going to catch a large chunk of our populace with their pants down.



Maybe the toilet paper panic buyers were onto something...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 11, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Maybe the toilet paper panic buyers were onto something...


Dude, forget the toilet paper. Imagine what's gonna happen when people can't get their meds or when schools start closing. Don't look at what people are saying, but what they are doing. The CDC and White House are giving pressers discussing covid impacts and worker protections for a reason.

Edit: Apologies. I know what you're saying is in jest, but many Americans live very close to the margins.


----------



## AWP (Mar 11, 2020)

Part of the problem is that how this affects people is all over the place. Some are seeing a high fever and a slight cough with almost no other issues. Obviously, it is killing others as well. We can't predict how it will affect anyone.

Looking at the Johns Hopkins dashboard, worldwide mortality is 3.6%, but how many of those deaths are people over 60 or with compromised immune systems? Once those are factored out we're looking at probably less than 3%, maybe less than 2% or even 1%?

From the WHO, dated March 6:


> While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.



Worse than the flu, but also 80% have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...0306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_2

Our greatest infection right now is fear. Some fear or worry isn't bad, maybe nasty-ass people will wash their hands now, but the worldwide response is a bit overblown. I'm washing my hands longer now, I'm making a conscious effort to not touch my face...stuff I should do anyway. I go home in May via Heathrow, but the only alteration to my vacation is that I won't visit my parents. They are in their mid-70's and dad has surgery in late April, my decision mitigates their risk.

Our greatest problem is a disruption to the world's supply chain, especially Just in Time supply models. A lot of this is being driven by fear, by a media desperate for news, anything to keep us tuning in. Russia and Saudi Arabia are in an oil price war...CNN has one mention on its front page, MSNBC has one, Fox has zero. This has some pretty large economic potential but it isn't juicy or salacious. "It it bleeds, it leads" is on display. The media vermin are fueling our fear and making this worse than it needs to be. I wish the impeachment circus was kicking off about now because the media wouldn't know what to do.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Blizzard I get you don't trust the guy, but the majority of what's said in that 10 min clip is true.


Look at the source for a lot of the alarmist stories right now.  Guess who's at the root of _many_ of them?  This guy.  He's showing up all over the place..tv, news, prodcasts, etc.  That's how he ended up on Rogan.  He's being called upon by the media looking to sensationalize a story.  It's not helpful and fuels the "panic".

He works in the field.  He apparently knows a lot of stuff.  He leverages a lot of facts.  He should know better, however, he's chosen to be an alarmist.  He's selling books (he promoted it in the Rogan clip).   But here's the problem I have with him...

His forecasts have been wrong on every major outbreak so far!  Yet, neither he, nor anyone else, ever mentions this important fact!

Here's another example:
- SARS: IS MINNESOTA PREPARED?


			
				2003 Senate testimony on SARS said:
			
		

> ..._Mr. Osterholm:  _As you may recall, in the first hearing, Senator Lautenberg asked Drs. Gerberding, Fauci, and me if we believe the SARS virus will return. We all answered in the affirmative, and even commented that though it appeared to be eliminated from the Toronto area, it may have been a prematurely declared victory.
> 
> Two days later, the second wave of SARS hit the Toronto area, and it would be another 6 weeks before that outbreak could be brought under control. I also suggested at that time that the reduction of new cases of SARS throughout the world was due in part to the heroic efforts of public health and nursing communities, and the likely waning of cases with the oncoming summer months. I still believe that conclusion to be true.
> 
> ...



Perhaps he's taken it upon himself to ensure everyone is prepared so that an outbreak can be controlled and eliminated.  Fine.  However, if that's the case, I take big issue with his alarmist, "doomsday" approach; ie. scaring people into action.  At worst, he's simply trying to capitalize on public fear by selling some books.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> Part of the problem is that how this affects people is all over the place. Some are seeing a high fever and a slight cough with almost no other issues. Obviously, it is killing others as well. We can't predict how it will affect anyone.
> 
> Looking at the Johns Hopkins dashboard, worldwide mortality is 3.6%, but how many of those deaths are people over 60 or with compromised immune systems? Once those are factored out we're looking at probably less than 3%, maybe less than 2% or even 1%?
> 
> ...


Agree with this 100%.

Perspective is needed but it's not being provided.

Since Jan 22, 119K reported cases resulting in 4,300 deaths _worldwide_ to date:
Coronavirus Update (Live): 119,245 Cases and 4,300 Deaths from COVID-19 Wuhan China Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

To give perspective:

Approx. 150K people die each die worldwide, of those, 100K die from age related illness:
Mortality rate - Wikipedia  - sorry for the Wiki cite but it's the easiest to find

2019 - 2020 Flu season in the _U.S. only_:
Flu shot better than last year, despite tough season for kids
So far, 16,000 people have died and 280,000 people have been hospitalized during the 2019-2020 flu season, according to preliminary estimates from the CDC.

2018 - 2019 Flu season in the _U.S. only_:
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season.

I'm not suggesting coronavirus should just be blown off, but it shouldn't be blown out of proportion either.  The suggested precautions for prevention are no different than most of those for the flu; things we should be doing anyway.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 11, 2020)

@AWP 15% of people needing oxygen, with 5% needing ventilation is going to break our medical system.

@Blizzard The Rogan clip was posted for it's digestibility, not because of the speaker.

Right now, I'm looking at Italy and what I'm seeing there is what I expect to see here in a few weeks.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @AWP 15% of people needing oxygen, with 5% needing ventilation is going to break our medical system.
> 
> @Blizzard The Rogan clip was posted for it's digestibility, not because of the speaker.
> 
> Right now, I'm looking at Italy and what I'm seeing there is what I expect to see here in a few weeks.



15% of people needing o2 isn't going to fricking break our medical system.  Ventilation? Still a no.

There's so much in the US that kills more within our borders than this has killed internationally (granted in nations willing to share the information) that this is seriously a election year freakout that is intended to keep the "at risk" population home from the polls.

But hey, it's not like every election year there's some pandemic that you shouldn't be out in public as protection for. Gee. Wonder why.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 11, 2020)

Just to get sirus (yes I purposely misspelled that) for a moment. This virus is very dangerous for the sick and the old. Virtually everyone I know is either old or sick. Heck, I'm 50ish and smoke two packs a day so it could and will probably kill me. My parents both in their 70s don't smoke but won't fare to well either. I swear this virus was created to cull the worlds population. Well at least all my family and friends will be hangin with Jesus while the world goes through War, famine, pestilence, and death. See you all on the other side.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> Part of the problem is that how this affects people is all over the place. Some are seeing a high fever and a slight cough with almost no other issues. Obviously, it is killing others as well. We can't predict how it will affect anyone.
> 
> Looking at the Johns Hopkins dashboard, worldwide mortality is 3.6%, but how many of those deaths are people over 60 or with compromised immune systems? Once those are factored out we're looking at probably less than 3%, maybe less than 2% or even 1%?
> 
> ...



I might be in the minority, but I believe the numbers are a bit skewed because we don't fully know due to a) the asymptomatic infections and b) countries that hide the truth, like China. The fact the main stream media has sensationalized the virus also pushes me to not believe the hype because...that's what they do. /sarcasm I'm glad it took a story like this for people to stop acting like animals. Like you, I've become more cognizant about what I touch after washing my hands in places like the chow hall. It's rather unavoidable elsewhere though. The other day I was in the office and dudes brought in a bottle of purell like it was their saving grace. They all got a little bit of that action then went back to typing away on their keyboards. Like...what the fuck is the purell gonna do for you at that point? I watched a CSM in the chow hall yesterday wash his hands, sanitize, then grab his phone as he waited in the 10 minute line. Perfect.

I'm pretty big skeptic when it comes to the news. I tend to believe less based on the amount of hype. It's ignorant, sure, but the media has conditioned me to it.



R.Caerbannog said:


> @AWP 15% of people needing oxygen, with 5% needing ventilation is going to break our medical system.
> 
> Right now, I'm looking at Italy and what I'm seeing there is what I expect to see here in a few weeks.



I understand your worry, but it's simple statements like that that is causing all of the panic and fear. The fear is worse than virus at this point. You have Iranian's pounding bootleg liqueur because they heard it kills the virus. I mean, it does, in a way.


----------



## AWP (Mar 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Tootsie rolls?  I want full bricks!



That's what they were buying/ selling at Bagram and Kabul for $20 a pop (the rolls).


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 11, 2020)

We are at over 100 confirmed cases now and so far 3 deaths. One was 78, the others were 82 and 95. Two of them were already in poor health and in an aged care home. Whilst sad, a common cold have killed these people. 

The hysteria and apocalypse type behaviour is causing more problems than the virus itself.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 11, 2020)

*could have killed these people.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> We are at over 100 confirmed cases now and so far 3 deaths. One was 78, the others were 82 and 95. Two of them were already in poor health and in an aged care home. Whilst sad, a common cold have killed these people.
> 
> The hysteria and apocalypse type behaviour is causing more problems than the virus itself.



We'll, not really "common cold".  That's why they are calling it "novel" because it isn't the same.  Same family, yes.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 11, 2020)

My bad @Devildoc.

I’m truly just trying to listen to the likes of WHO, my state and federal health services as well as my teachers at uni. They have real world experience in this type of stuff. They aren’t sounding the alarms and are still showing up.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> My bad @Devildoc.
> 
> I’m truly just trying to listen to the likes of WHO, my state and federal health services as well as my teachers at uni. They have real world experience in this type of stuff. They aren’t sounding the alarms and are still showing up.



No worries, truly.

I also have real world experience with this kind of stuff, and I fully believe there is so much hype and panic about it, and I am really struggling to find why.

But regarding this virus and the cold, think of it this way. If it was just a common cold, why are more people dying of it? Even old people, with respiratory disease, with compromised immune systems, they get colds all the time and are no worse for wear. There is something different about this mutation.

For context, we often see clusters of norovirus, which is a GI bug, right? Well there are many types of norovirus, and they don't all work or affect the body the same way. 

Is it the same as a common cold? No. Is it the second coming of SARS or avian flu?  Absolutely not.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 11, 2020)

Correct me if I’m wrong, experts. What makes COVID-19 different is it’s mild/ no symptoms throughout its incubation period, correct? And that promotes community spread as they don’t know they have COVID-19. Anything else that is alarming?


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

Bambi said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, experts. What makes COVID-19 different is it’s mild/ no symptoms throughout its incubation period, correct? And that promotes community spread as they don’t know they have COVID-19. Anything else that is alarming?



Partly.  Also the virulence among the 'bad' population is particularly troubling.  Most diseases can be spread prior to being symptomatic, but this one incubates differently.  "Alarming" to the general population?  I do not think so.  I was joking with my wife that we should take our whole family and visit someone who is sick just to get it done, just like our parents did with us 45 years ago with chicken pox.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 11, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Partly.  Also the virulence among the 'bad' population is particularly troubling.  Most diseases can be spread prior to being symptomatic, but this one incubates differently.  "Alarming" to the general population?  I do not think so.  I was joking with my wife that we should take our whole family and visit someone who is sick just to get it done, just like our parents did with us 45 years ago with chicken pox.



I mean, it's a sound plan. I've read once you recover, you should have the anti-bodies to protect against it. My question, does the lesser of the two(three?) protect against the others afterwards or are you still susceptible to the more powerful of the group?


----------



## Bambi (Mar 11, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Partly.  Also the virulence among the 'bad' population is particularly troubling.  Most diseases can be spread prior to being symptomatic, but this one incubates differently.  "Alarming" to the general population?  I do not think so.  I was joking with my wife that we should take our whole family and visit someone who is sick just to get it done, just like our parents did with us 45 years ago with chicken pox.


Okay, thanks. Different people say different things in regards to how bad the virus can be. The severe cases are the major minority with older people being more at risk of developing severe cases. Me, a 19 year old in good health , has 0.2% chance of dying from it, so I’m not panicking or anything just trying to get the facts from people in the know. Thanks


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I mean, it's a sound plan. I've read once you recover, you should have the anti-bodies to protect against it. My question, does the lesser of the two(three?) protect against the others afterwards or are you still susceptible to the more powerful of the group?



One of the novel things about this strain is that people have caught it, got better, caught it again/relapsed.  That is unusual.  But, theoretically, once you get it you are supposed to make antibodies so if you get it or a different strain it will be less severe.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 11, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> ... I was joking with my wife that we should take our whole family and visit someone who is sick just to get it done, just like our parents did with us 45 years ago with chicken pox.



Look what good that did. Now we get to deal with Shingles. Yes, there's now a vaccine for Chicken Pox and even Shingles, but still, the idea that getting something and it conferring immunity because of that exposure isn't always a good thing.

LL


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Look what good that did. Now we get to deal with Shingles. Yes, there's now a vaccine for Chicken Pox and even Shingles, but still, the idea that getting something and it conferring immunity because of that exposure isn't always a good thing.
> 
> LL



In that particular case, a lot more kids got CP and did not get shingles than adults who had CP and who get shingles.  Now there are vaccines for both, so hopefully is won't be that big of a deal.  Our parents, and we as parents, follow the Law of Good Intentions, and it doesn't always pan out the way we hope.

BTW, I had shingles, once, almost 20 years ago.


----------



## amlove21 (Mar 11, 2020)

Well, here we go. The Soldier of this spouse also tested positive for Covid-19, sparking base wide emails, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Don’t worry- SOCOM put out guidance saying ‘wash your hands’ and we posted fact sheets. 

Where was the information disseminated? You guessed it. All-call. Small enclosed classroom. 

Off-Base JBLM Spouse Tests Positive Over Weekend for COVID-19


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Well, here we go. The Soldier of this spouse also tested positive for Covid-19, sparking base wide emails, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Don’t worry- SOCOM put out guidance saying ‘wash your hands’ and we posted fact sheets.
> 
> Where was the information disseminated? You guessed it. All-call. Small enclosed classroom.
> 
> Off-Base JBLM Spouse Tests Positive Over Weekend for COVID-19



Bwahahaha!  That's like the most military thing ever.  

We're having a WebEx in 60 seconds with university, hospital, state, and CDC people.  I'll advise if we hear anything different.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> A lack of ads. You have 2-3 "cut scene" ads for Toyota, but no ads on the bottom. I thinik it was Datto, a Destiny 2 content creator, who had a mention or two of it last week and his video was in the same boat: no ads at the bottom.
> 
> I agree with you on their revenue stream, but it still blows my mind YT is doing this.


Got it.  Yeah that makes plenty of sense.  I'm behind on my GTN videos right now, but they had a Coronavirus episode last week...so I'm sure they've been demonetized!


----------



## RetPara (Mar 11, 2020)

Daughter works for a womens hospital in Boston; she expects them to go telework mandatory at the end of the week.  Harvard is asking students to move out of dorms in five days. They are not to return after spring break.  Harvard is going online only until further notice.

Michigan State is going to online classes only today.  

Just got back from the VA in Ann Arbor.  Screening everyone as they enter, with VA Police on the scene to ensure compliance.  Providers have been directed to limit FTF meetings with patients to those that are not high risk for the virus (that means people over 60, heart conditions, diabetes and so on).  Since the heart attack last month I'm in that category.   For well over a month the VA staff has been asked to volunteer to work at 'other sites around the country to help with screening for COVID19.'


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Mar 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> Considering the hysteria sweeping the planet, I think the board would rather you buy a few tootsie rolls of hashish and a 10 year old *instead of falling for the bullshit spread by the MSM.*
> 
> * - We're not there yet, but ya' get where I'm going, right? Hyperbole and all...



I'm not sure why you would direct that sentiment toward me? When I called home some of the stores in my area were in fact sold out of toilet paper...


----------



## AWP (Mar 11, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> I'm not sure why you would direct that sentiment toward me? When I called home some of the stores in my area were in fact sold out of toilet paper...



NOT directed at you! A piggyback commentary based on your post, nothing more. This is NOT an attack on you.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

Back from webex/meeting.  Some take home points:

1)  COVID-19 will get worse before it gets better in terms of total number of cases
2)  COVID-19 may be here for a bulk of the rest of the year
3)  They do not know how it affects children fully; they may be asymptomatic carriers
4)  They anticipate the criteria of at-risk to grow
5)  While not an extinction-level event a la a billion people getting SARS or H1N1, etc., it can be enough to stunt the economy pretty badly and enough to make a major impact on the healthcare system

All these are prognostications based on evidence and data so far and based on modelling; therefore, some of these may be better/worse than expected based on _today's _information (IOW, "don't blame me if I am wrong and it's better or worse than I said today").


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Mar 11, 2020)

FWIW -

I (COO) have all of our employees ready to be able to work remotely should we decide to go that route.  Based on conversations today, over the next week we will most likely have a floating option for those to work remotely (81% of our employees have tested their environments remotely or access that environment monthly) and we can go to a mandatory remote policy for 2-3 weeks when someone catches this.  The remaining 19% of employees are currently testing their environments and our devs are just double checking some security with the servers since the information we have needs to be locked down.

That's what I have our place doing and we will be business as usual until another event happens 3rd party or otherwise that changes that.  I don't predict a lot of stunting in our workflow or ability to do our jobs since we have tested and planned for contingencies like this in the past.  Our message is we are prepared to roll with this but things shouldn't be materially different.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 11, 2020)

Isiah6:8 said:


> FWIW -
> 
> I (COO) have all of our employees ready to be able to work remotely should we decide to go that route.  Based on conversations today, over the next week we will most likely have a floating option for those to work remotely (81% of our employees have tested their environments remotely or access that environment monthly) and we can go to a mandatory remote policy for 2-3 weeks when someone catches this.  The remaining 19% of employees are currently testing their environments and our devs are just double checking some security with the servers since the information we have needs to be locked down.
> 
> That's what I have our place doing and we will be business as usual until another event happens 3rd party or otherwise that changes that.  I don't predict a lot of stunting in our workflow or ability to do our jobs since we have tested and planned for contingencies like this in the past.  Our message is we are prepared to roll with this but things shouldn't be materially different.




Riddle me this:  What benefit does having everyone come in now have?  If you can work remote... then ramp up everyone working remotely. You'll cut costs for physical workspace required, everyone will probably become more productive as being able to sip a brandy while you beat on a keyboard like a rabid howler monkey has a flavor all it's own. Nevermind being able to work wherever necessary/convenient if needed at a moments notice for something. @compforce @racing_kitty @x SF med can all attest to the validity of my statements.   

Plus, even if it's just for a month or two, letting everyone self quarantine and handing them a 4 pack of purel on the way out the door makes you look (perception is reality, even if reality is reality, and them SEEING that you're giving a shit matters as much if not more than the fact you're giving a shit about them) damn good.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

There is GREAT data that self-quarantine/restricting social distance prevents transmission.  

How canceled events and self-quarantines save lives, in one chart

Also, regarding precautions, it depends on which source you read:  WHO supports it being droplet, CDC supports it being airborne.  Who's right?  Who knows?  It could be both.


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Mar 11, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Riddle me this:  What benefit does having everyone come in now have?  If you can work remote... then ramp up everyone working remotely. You'll cut costs for physical workspace required, everyone will probably become more productive as being able to sip a brandy while you beat on a keyboard like a rabid howler monkey has a flavor all it's own. Nevermind being able to work wherever necessary/convenient if needed at a moments notice for something. @compforce @racing_kitty @x SF med can all attest to the validity of my statements.
> 
> Plus, even if it's just for a month or two, letting everyone self quarantine and handing them a 4 pack of purel on the way out the door makes you look (perception is reality, even if reality is reality, and them SEEING that you're giving a shit matters as much if not more than the fact you're giving a shit about them) damn good.



The only reasons we do not have everyone offered remote currently is two-fold: 1) we have our annual audit review going on right now that ends Friday.  2) we have meetings in house right now that are massively important to the future of our business given we are in an acquiring phase, that ends tomorrow.  There are certain groups that are largely remote right now (sales primarily).

We don't worry about the variable costs since our costs on physical space is a fixed cost as well as ~99.9% of our employee base, as we type I am trying to think of any variable rate employees but we try and make sure people can count on wages so we don't do the hourly.  We haven't gone to "You have to work from home" because we will have office space open until that isn't the case.  Our sales people are pretty much the ones remote right now with few exceptions but next week the option will be extended company wide.  We will extend the option sooner than most other companies in the area and especially in our field, but I still technically report to someone who has their own ideas as well.

I could not agree more with your statements on working remote and the perception.  You absolutely nailed it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 11, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> 15% of people needing o2 isn't going to fricking break our medical system.  Ventilation? Still a no.
> 
> There's so much in the US that kills more within our borders than this has killed internationally (granted in nations willing to share the information) that this is seriously a election year freakout that is intended to keep the "at risk" population home from the polls.
> 
> But hey, it's not like every election year there's some pandemic that you shouldn't be out in public as protection for. Gee. Wonder why.


Dude, our hospital supply chains are a mess and there is a shortage of PPE. Heck, before the virus hit local hospitals were already facing supply and equipment shortages. When hospitals are looking at a deluge of infectious people, who'll need oxygen or an iron lung to breath, things are going to get sporty.

As an aside. Based on what I'm hearing from my family, a lot of hospital workers are pissed. PPE is being limited to one mask a day. Last month they had to throw out thousands of sealed supply packets, because of a manufacturer defect in one of the individually sealed items (a gown). In the end that hospital had to beg the local bases to help them make up the shortfall.

If hospitals are shitshows when everything is running smoothly, I can only imagine the idiocy on the administrator and patient levels when staff are forced to triage patients in the waiting rooms.



GOTWA said:


> I understand your worry, but it's simple statements like that that is causing all of the panic and fear. The fear is worse than virus at this point. You have Iranian's pounding bootleg liqueur because they heard it kills the virus. I mean, it does, in a way.


Not trying to spread fear, just trying to illustrate the challenges that we are going to face as a nation. Information is power, if we can sift through that information and come to conclusions without fear we will be better for it.

Right now, I'm squarely in the camp that this was a breach in China's bioweapons program. At the moment, the PRC and our MSM are vehemently denying that the virus is from China's BSL-4 lab in Wuhan. If anything, I'm trying to figure out how we get payback on those dumb commie bastards. Cause I know that they're not gonna to let a situation like this go to waste.


----------



## Dame (Mar 11, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Coming back from Afg soon and wondering if I should buy toilet paper here and bring it home??


Order ahead and warn whoever is home that it's coming.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00589DZKU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Brill (Mar 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Order ahead and warn whoever is home that it's coming.
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00589DZKU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



The reviews...quality yucks!


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Order ahead and warn whoever is home that it's coming.
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00589DZKU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



We buy all our paper products from Amazon now.  Saves a trip to Costco and it's cheaper.  
As for shortfalls of PPE, the whole province of Ontario's stockpile of masks from the SARS days expired...

Ontario stockpiled millions of face masks after SARS. As COVID-19 nears pandemic status, they’re all expired


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 11, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> *Not trying to spread fear...*
> Right now, I'm squarely in the camp that this was a breach in China's bioweapons program. At the moment, the PRC and our MSM are vehemently denying that the virus is from China's BSL-4 lab in Wuhan. If anything, I'm trying to figure out how we *get payback on those dumb commie bastards. *Cause I know that they're not gonna to let a situation like this go to waste.



If you're not trying to spread fear, how about not embracing and espousing the widely dismissed idea (by the majority of actual experts/researchers, not just MSM) that this is a bioweapon?

We all know you hate those "dumb commie bastards", but that doesn't mean everything that happens in that country is some planned attack or accidental release of a weapon.

Sometimes things are just an example of Occam's Razor rather than some vast interconnected geopolitical conspiracy.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 11, 2020)

*The Coronavirus Is Now A “Pandemic.” Maybe We Ought To Take It More Seriously Now.*

"For the last several weeks many Americans, including me, have had a pretty cavalier attitude about COVID19. And while it does not do us any good to go into panic mode, I don’t think we can simply ignore the problem until it goes away. This disease isn’t “coming,” it’s here. And no matter how it compares to “real health issues” in the US, the fact is that this disease is having an enormous effect on the world economy, on our daily lives, and the health of the people it affects. It’s important for us to remain aware, and to act responsibly."

*link*


----------



## Brill (Mar 11, 2020)




----------



## DA SWO (Mar 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> We buy all our paper products from Amazon now.  Saves a trip to Costco and it's cheaper.
> As for shortfalls of PPE, the whole province of Ontario's stockpile of masks from the SARS days expired...
> 
> Ontario stockpiled millions of face masks after SARS. As COVID-19 nears pandemic status, they’re all expired


Use them anyway.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> 15% of people needing o2 isn't going to fricking break our medical system.  Ventilation? Still a no.
> 
> There's so much in the US that kills more within our borders than this has killed internationally (granted in nations willing to share the information) that this is seriously a election year freakout that is intended to keep the "at risk" population home from the polls.
> 
> But hey, it's not like every election year there's some pandemic that you shouldn't be out in public as protection for. Gee. Wonder why.



Actually a lack of access to oxygen and ventilators will absolutely bring a health system to its knees.  Doctors in Milan Italy are having to decide what patients get on ventilators versus what patients do not, they simply don't have enough to go around. They're looking at dozens of bodies in the morgue, a morgue that's not designed to handle that many bodies.

I don't think this is an election year freak out, there are too many independent variables that have to swing in that direction, too many moving parts.  I DO think the left and the media are spinning as much as they can to make this an election year issue for Trump.


----------



## Brill (Mar 11, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Actually a lack of access to oxygen...



PLANT A TREE!!!!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> If you're not trying to spread fear, how about not embracing and espousing the widely dismissed idea (by the majority of actual experts/researchers, not just MSM) that this is a bioweapon?
> 
> We all know you hate those "dumb commie bastards", but that doesn't mean everything that happens in that country is some planned attack or accidental release of a weapon.
> 
> Sometimes things are just an example of Occam's Razor rather than some vast interconnected geopolitical conspiracy.


Sigh... dude, ground zero for the virus was at the Wuhan wetmarket, which is about a block away from their biolab. The PRC even released a report back in late Jan early Feb of lab personnel getting sick over being exposed to 'bat blood'. 

China gave this to the world. It's why they're going full retard on image PR.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> PLANT A TREE!!!!



Not a bad idea. Better than my other idea which was for each person infected who might need a ventilator or oxygen, take out one walking, talking oxygen thief. You know, basically a one for one replacement.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 11, 2020)

Watching the Oval Office speech live...30 day ban on all travel from Europe, excluding the UK. Starting Friday. 

Markets are not going to be happy tomorrow morning.


----------



## Dame (Mar 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> The reviews...quality yucks!


Dunno what to tell ya. Four and a half stars. But the sentiment is the same: Don't bother worrying about store supply.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 11, 2020)

NBA just suspended the season.

NBA announces suspension of season after player tests positive for COVID-19. NBA announces suspension of season after player tests positive for COVID-19


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 11, 2020)

Woah....and Tom Hanks and his wife.

Tom Hanks & Rita Wilson Test Positive For Coronavirus As Outbreak Hits ‘Elvis Presley’ Film


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 11, 2020)

Just an FYI. 

Stats and reporting information is interesting stuff.  Truthful? Factual?  You decide.

Montana has their first official case. Here's how that works:

A Montana woman went to Maryland, was exposed to an infected person in Maryland. She started to show symptoms in Maryland and was admitted to Ann Arundel Hospital in Annapolis and is currently still in that hospital in Maryland.

CDC says she's the first Montana confirmed case even though she's not in MT and has not been in MT since she was exposed and is not going to be in MT in the near future.

THAT is how this rolls.

Update: Montanan diagnosed with coronavirus in Maryland did not have disease in Montana

LL


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 11, 2020)




----------



## DA SWO (Mar 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> NBA just suspended the season.
> 
> NBA announces suspension of season after player tests positive for COVID-19. NBA announces suspension of season after player tests positive for COVID-19


I agree with this decision.  
Though it's probably too late to contain within the NBA Teams.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 11, 2020)

They should just cancel the NBA...

Anyway, it's kind of odd that Russia, given their relationship and shared borders with China and Iran, still only wants to report 28 cases.  I can't believe that's all they have.  I understand they're falling back to their old ways but I'm still surprised they'd suppress this as much as I think they may be doing -- even China has been more forthcoming.

And how about Syria as well; they claim 0 cases...maybe worrying about a virus isn't high on their priority list.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 12, 2020)

Neat!
New Chinese study indicates novel coronavirus did not originate in Huanan seafood market - Global Times


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 12, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Mar 12, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Neat!
> New Chinese study indicates novel coronavirus did not originate in Huanan seafood market - Global Times



So an infected bio-lab employee...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I agree with this decision.
> Though it's probably too late to contain within the NBA Teams.



Will not be surprised to see the NFL hold the draft as a conference call this year and not a public event.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 12, 2020)

Highly recommend Tuesday's Joe Rogan podcast featuring Michael Osterholm.  He's local to us here in MInnesota (U of M) and is 'the' go-to-guy when it comes to infectious disease.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Highly recommend Tuesday's Joe Rogan podcast featuring Michael Osterholm.  He's local to us here in MInnesota (U of M) and is 'the' go-to-guy when it comes to infectious disease.



Next in my queue.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Will not be surprised to see the NFL hold the draft as a conference call this year and not a public event.


At this rate I’m certain most, if not all public events will be televised with no live audience.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 12, 2020)

One upside is there is no wait at the best restaurants here in town.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Highly recommend Tuesday's Joe Rogan podcast featuring Michael Osterholm.  He's local to us here in MInnesota (U of M) and is 'the' go-to-guy when it comes to infectious disease.


Disagree on Osterholm; posted reasons earlier


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Disagree on Osterholm; posted reasons earlier


It's almost as if you are complaining that his predictions did not come true?  Personally I am relieved that things did not get as bad as he predicted that they could/would; but that said, I'll happily take his advice/thoughts on what we are dealing with over the collective of Twitter/ShadowSpear/etc.

"This" has been coming for some time, and my only hope is that the world learns from this event and puts protocols into place for next time.  Imagine if this had been an Ebola like outbreak -


----------



## Bambi (Mar 12, 2020)

The rest has still yet to come. You know people are worried when KY Governor urges churches to just live stream services. I went out for my normal grocery haul and there actually is no toilet paper, hand sanitizer, breads slowly depleting, even baby food is becoming scarce on the shelves. The response to this is what’s unnerving to me. Trump puts a hold on travel from Europe into the US and people are calling it a xenophobic move.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Disagree on Osterholm; posted reasons earlier



Public health/epidemiology/ID docs are a little like meteorologists in that they operate on modelling based on available data, and change forecasts often multiple times a day.  This guy, he's a legit SME, and we have been looped into him (and about 75 others, collectively).


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 12, 2020)

I thought weathermen operated by way of cutting open chickens and reading the entrails.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 12, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I thought weathermen operated by way of cutting open chickens and reading the entrails.


Nah... They use exotic animals and then sell the carcasses in the Wuhan market.

LL


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 12, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Nah... They use exotic animals and then sell the carcasses in the Wuhan market.
> 
> LL


Shhhh,
Ancient Chinese secret.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Shhhh,
> Ancient Chinese secret.



Remember this commercial?  I do :)


----------



## RetPara (Mar 12, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> One upside is there is no wait at the best restaurants here in town.



Even better...  the price for the ocean cruise of your dreams will never be lower than right now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 12, 2020)

Waiting on official comms, but the league I work for is suspending operations for the next 30 days. Pretty much every sports league in America is shutting down.

MLB Spring Training has just been suspended.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 12, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I thought weathermen operated by way of cutting open chickens and reading the entrails.



The weather rock...


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

RetPara said:


> Even better...  the price for the ocean cruise of your dreams will never be lower than right now.



Depends on who you book with. Both Princess and Viking have canceled operations.  Princess, Holland America, and Royal Caribbean are owned by the same parent company. While the latter two have not yet announced suspensions/cancellations, it’s only a matter of time.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 12, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So an infected bio-lab employee...


Yep, at least that was the story after no one believed the wet market being the culprit. (Initially the locals at the market didn't take too kindly to being labeled as the infection vector. The market was closed for disinfection, reopened, and finally closed for good, when the virus took hold of Wuhan.)

Also @Cookie_ , China is trying to shift blame to the US for the Corona Virus. Look at what people do, not what they say.
Beijing Knows Who to Blame for the Virus: America
Inside China's high-stakes campaign to smear the United States over coronavirus


----------



## Brill (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Highly recommend Tuesday's Joe Rogan podcast featuring Michael Osterholm.  He's local to us here in MInnesota (U of M) and is 'the' go-to-guy when it comes to infectious disease.



Are you SURE you cannot get Coronavirus by listening to a podcast? Latest word is that it has a 110% mortality rate!


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 12, 2020)




----------



## amlove21 (Mar 12, 2020)

Washington State just shut down all K-12 Schools until April 27th in 3 counties- Pierce (JBLM is in Pierce County), Snohomish (nothing is really there) and King (Seattle is there). 

Inslee orders all private, public K-12 schools in King, Pierce, Snohomish counties to close through April 24 due to coronavirus concerns

There are rumors (no link; these are literally rumors, no need to furiously youtube and google search these claims) that state officials are considering banning travel in and out of Washington State.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 12, 2020)

Guessing my wife trip to California (May) will be cancelled.
Yahoo!


----------



## DasBoot (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If you don't follow OJ....you should!
> 
> View attachment 32402


Good to see he left the gloves off the cart.


----------



## Brill (Mar 12, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> There are rumors (no link; these are literally rumors, no need to furiously youtube and google search these claims) that state officials are considering banning travel in and out of Washington State.



My dad (Pierce County) told me same this morning but not sure of his source.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

The westernmost Temple of the Rat has been closed for roughly two weeks. Here’s the statement from Disney:


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 12, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> The westernmost Temple of the Rat has been closed for roughly two weeks. Here’s the statement from Disney:
> View attachment 32471



What is Downtown Disney? It's the one place that they mention keeping open.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like an open air market.

Again, I'm the one thinking we are blowing it out proportion.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> What is Downtown Disney? It's the one place that they mention keeping open.
> 
> Call me crazy, but that sounds like an open air market.
> 
> Again, I'm the one thinking we are blowing it out proportion.


Downtown Disney is a collection of various restaurants, pubs, and gift shops. There’s one found just outside Walt Disney World, also.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 12, 2020)

Fucking terrible news to wake up to. 

The NHL is "paused."


----------



## Dame (Mar 12, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Neat!
> New Chinese study indicates novel coronavirus did not originate in Huanan seafood market - Global Times



Dude.  I posted this pages and pages ago.


Dame said:


> I'ma leave this riiiiight here.
> Don’t buy China’s story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab






SpitfireV said:


> Fucking terrible news to wake up to.
> 
> The NHL is "paused."


Yeah. We're in first.  It's killin' me.
Coronavirus related injury?


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

You can now add Disney World, Disneyland Paris, and Disney Cruise Lines to the list, along with Universal. Orlando is going to take a fiscal hit on this, just in lost taxes and resort fees.


----------



## AWP (Mar 12, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> You can now add Disney World, Disneyland Paris, and Disney Cruise Lines to the list, along with Universal. Orlando is going to take a fiscal hit on this, just in lost taxes and resort fees.



Which is kind of funny because it is in Orlando's interests to burn through this now before the summer starts. Right now the parks are pretty much (or would be) Brazilians, Asians, and school groups.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> Which is kind of funny because it is in Orlando's interests to burn through this now before the summer starts. Right now the parks are pretty much (or would be) Brazilians, Asians, and school groups.


You have a good point there. Although, spring break for K-12 schools across much of America will be coming up soon. I wonder how many of those families bought travel insurance.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 12, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Depends on who you book with. Both Princess and Viking have canceled operations.  Princess, Holland America, and Royal Caribbean are owned by the same parent company. While the latter two have not yet announced suspensions/cancellations, it’s only a matter of time.


So my cruise coupon is no good?
Buy 1 week, get two weeks free
Coupon code:CORONA


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

Add Sophie Trudeau to the list of patients. Her spouse, the Canadian prime minister, has self quarantined and is showing no symptoms c


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

My Sister has the Corona Virus in Georgia. She is a school teacher.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

There are two cases in Huntsville Alabama not being reported on the news. This is more widespread than we know.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> There are two cases in Huntsville Alabama not being reported on the news. This is more widespread than we know.



I had a feeling that “no Coronavirus in Alabama!” was a crock of shit.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 12, 2020)

Honestly, I’m genuinely shocked that Mobile hasn’t had a case turn up yet. I know that tests handed out by the CDC are hard to come by; the urgent care closest to my house was only issued 10 of them. However, with the Alabama state docks AND the Carnival Fantasy both here in Mobile, you can’t tell me that someone hasn’t been exposed yet. We just don’t know it.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I had a feeling that “no Coronavirus in Alabama!” was a crock of shit.


Yep. I imagine that most people that have it don't even realize it. My Sister just called and told us. She has been running a fever for a week now. She is 48 so we're hoping she'll be Ok.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 12, 2020)

Dame said:


> Dude.  I posted this pages and pages ago.


Aww shucks, apologies Dame. Wasn't trying to step on your toes.

If it helps, the link I posted references the ChinaXiV study. It's an Chinese news source that contradicted the narrative the CCP is now pushing. Though it looks like it's been changed.

I remember a similar but older article, mentioning personnel from the Wuhan Institute of Virology being exposed to 'drops of bat blood on their arm'. The article then mentioned that the Wuhan Virology personnel spread the virus to the market. It basically read as a, "mea culpa, it was an accident"; I guess the CCP changed it up.


> The study published on ChinaXiv, a Chinese open repository for scientific researchers, reveals the new coronavirus was introduced to the seafood market from another location, and then spread rapidly from market to market. The findings were the result of analyses of genome-wide data, sources of infection and the route of spread of 93 samples of the novel coronavirus collected from 12 countries across four continents.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Honestly, I’m genuinely shocked that Mobile hasn’t had a case turn up yet. I know that tests handed out by the CDC are hard to come by; the urgent care closest to my house was only issued 10 of them. However, with the Alabama state docks AND the Carnival Fantasy both here in Mobile, you can’t tell me that someone hasn’t been exposed yet. We just don’t know it.


I'm guessing it is everywhere by now. I mean if my Sis has it then that is pretty close to home. My Nephew just flew out to Utah for a Ski trip so it is in Utah now I'm sure. I think it is gonna get bad. My parents both in their 70s are staying home because I pulled rank and ordered them to. LOL I stocked them up with 250 cans of soup. Since the elderly are more susceptible to the virus.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Yep. I imagine that most people that have it don't even realize it. My Sister just called and told us. She has been running a fever for a week now. She is 48 so we're hoping she'll be Ok.


Dude sorry to read this.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I'm guessing it is everywhere by now. I mean if my Sis has it then that is pretty close to home. My Nephew just flew out to Utah for a Ski trip so it is in Utah now I'm sure. I think it is gonna get bad. My parents both in their 70s are staying home because I pulled rank and ordered them to. LOL I stocked them up with 250 cans of soup. Since the elderly are more susceptible to the virus.


Good on you man! At least you're taking precautions, seems like a large chunk of our population has decided to stick their heads in the sand and hope this goes away.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> My Nephew just flew out to Utah for a Ski trip so it is in Utah now I'm sure.


I'm headed out there in another week or so.  I'll let you know...


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude sorry to read this.


Thanks brother. It has been a week now and we're praying for her. She said she feels like the worst has passed though.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 12, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Good on you man! At least you're taking precautions, seems like a large chunk of our population has decided to stick their heads in the sand and hope this goes away.


A lot of us have elderly family members we just gotta stay vigilant. I think we're gonna lose a lot of people sadly and with the virus surviving for days on surfaces and 3 hours airborne I just can't see any good coming of this.


----------



## SierraWave (Mar 13, 2020)

My parents live in Greenville, SC, and I also basically ordered them to stay at home. They are 68 and 70, respectively. Got them set up with grocery delivery from Publix and told them they should consider every trip out a risk to their health until we seem to have a better grip on whats going on. There are so many older folks out there though that don't care, or that don't have anyone to look after them.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2020)

Detailed report on risk factors for mortality:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30566-3/fulltext

*Background*
Since December, 2019, Wuhan, China, has experienced an outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). Epidemiological and clinical characteristics of patients with COVID-19 have been reported but risk factors for mortality and a detailed clinical course of illness, including viral shedding, have not been well described.

*Methods*
In this retrospective, multicentre cohort study, we included all adult inpatients (≥18 years old) with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 from Jinyintan Hospital and Wuhan Pulmonary Hospital (Wuhan, China) who had been discharged or had died by Jan 31, 2020. Demographic, clinical, treatment, and laboratory data, including serial samples for viral RNA detection, were extracted from electronic medical records and compared between survivors and non-survivors. We used univariable and multivariable logistic regression methods to explore the risk factors associated with in-hospital death.

*Findings*
* 191 patients (135 from Jinyintan Hospital and 56 from Wuhan Pulmonary Hospital) were included in this study, of whom 137 were discharged and 54 died in hospital.

* 91 (48%) patients had a comorbidity, with:

                  hypertension being the most common (58 [30%] patients)
                  followed by diabetes (36 [19%] patients), and
                  coronary heart disease (15 [8%] patients).
* Multivariable regression showed increasing odds of in-hospital death associated with:

                 older age (odds ratio 1·10, 95% CI 1·03–1·17, per year increase; p=0·0043)
                 higher Sequential Organ Failure Assessment (SOFA) score (5·65, 2·61–12·23; p<0·0001), and
                 d-dimer greater than 1 μg/mL (18·42, 2·64–128·55; p=0·0033) on admission.
* Median duration of viral shedding was 20·0 days (IQR 17·0–24·0) in survivors, but SARS-CoV-2 was detectable until death in non-survivors.

* The longest observed duration of viral shedding in survivors was 37 days.

*Interpretation*
The potential risk factors of older age, high SOFA score, and d-dimer greater than 1 μg/mL could help clinicians to identify patients with poor prognosis at an early stage. Prolonged viral shedding provides the rationale for a strategy of isolation of infected patients and optimal antiviral interventions in the future.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Spoiler: Minimized Quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Lots of good info! At the risk of sounding like an alarmist. I'm wondering what the rate of fatality is for those that don't seek or aren't given medical treatment. Neat to see the duration of viral shedding. Thanks dude!


----------



## medicchick (Mar 13, 2020)

And cue an early spring break for Bibby! Instead of the 23-27th it starts now-31st...


----------



## Dame (Mar 13, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Aww shucks, apologies Dame. Wasn't trying to step on your toes.
> 
> If it helps, the link I posted references the ChinaXiV study. It's an Chinese news source that contradicted the narrative the CCP is now pushing. Though it looks like it's been changed.
> 
> I remember a similar but older article, mentioning personnel from the Wuhan Institute of Virology being exposed to 'drops of bat blood on their arm'. The article then mentioned that the Wuhan Virology personnel spread the virus to the market. It basically read as a, "mea culpa, it was an accident"; I guess the CCP changed it up.



Naw, no toe damage. It's true the narrative continues to change to save whatever is left of the Chinese government's face. 

I was referencing the theme of "Oops. Maybe" coming from studies released by the Chinese themselves. I think there will be a slow trickle of new articles admitting semi-truths which will resemble an 8-card Monte game run by a Wuhan market live octopus.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 13, 2020)

Who besides me thinks we should postpone the 2020 elections until 2024 to avoid giving the entire country the Corona Virus?

I saw this on another site and thought ya'lled get a kick out of it.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 13, 2020)

Lots of schools closing...……. I think it is finally time to teach our children from home. Like them new fangled online colleges except this will be for Elementary, middle, and High school. What say you?

No need to read this. It is just a school closing announcement.


Dear Cobb Schools Families,

We have been committed to keeping our community updated about the rapidly developing situation with COVID-19. Throughout the process, we have relied on the guidance from the Georgia Department of Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as well as, as our state leaders.

*In accordance with Governor Kemp’s guidance today and to best prioritize student and staff safety, effective Monday, March 16th, Cobb Schools will be closed.  *

The school closures include all school building activities, athletics/sports, extracurricular school activities, and trips. 

While our school buildings will be closed, the education process will not stop. All staff will work remotely to best support students, including delivering digital and physical instructional resources to students while they’re at home.

The decision to close schools was not easy. After already closing one school as a result of a positive case of COVID-19 and now the news of the first confirmed COVID-19 related death in Cobb County and Gov. Kemp’s recommendations, we knew the time had come to transition students to digital learning and close our schools. 

We know that you may have questions regarding how the school closure will impact you, and we will work to provide you the answers.

We will continue to keep our community updated on the next steps during the school closure process as we turn to our digital learning resources. 

We know this is a very difficult time for our school families and the community. We will work together to get through this unprecedented time.

More information will be communicated on Friday, March 13 to all our families and staff. Please continue to stay updated on  http://www.cobbk12.org/covid/


----------



## Bambi (Mar 13, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Lots of schools closing...……. I think it is finally time to teach our children from home. Like them new fangled online colleges except this will be for Elementary, middle, and High school. What say you?
> 
> No need to read this. It is just a school closing announcement.
> 
> ...


KY Gov Andy Beshear told all KY PSD Superintendents to be prepared for instructions to come, few hours later counties are closing schools left and right. My counties PSD has a whole month off with online resources for school work.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 13, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> ... Again, I'm the one thinking we are blowing it out proportion.



I'd rather blow it out of proportion and live, than the alternative.  

Signed, someone who has several of the markers for increased susceptibility.

LL


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ... MLB Spring Training has just been suspended.



splutters... But, but... That's Un-American!

LL


----------



## Brill (Mar 13, 2020)

I went to a restaurant last night and it was pretty full. No, it wasn’t a Chinese place so obviously I’m racist.  Today I’m going to Costco for stuff that DOES NOT include TP (gtg on that).

Georgians do not appear to be freakin out like folks in MD are.


----------



## AWP (Mar 13, 2020)

lindy said:


> Georgians do not appear to be freakin out like folks in MD are.



People willing to flatten their family tree with a relative or two are probably not concerned by the virus...


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 13, 2020)

Prime example of why this is going to spread so easily in the States. A good number of Americans are shitheads like this guy.

JetBlue bans passenger who notified crew after landing that he'd tested positive for coronavirus.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2020)

Bypass said:


> There are two cases in Huntsville Alabama not being reported on the news. This is more widespread than we know.



First, sorry to hear about your sister!  I am standing in faith that she will be one of the 99% (who are fine).

This is much more widespread than we know.  Widespread and increased testing will see this grow exponentially.  

All the local school systems are closing by Monday.  We homeschool...we've never had a teacher workday, a snow day, nothing...we sure as hell aren't going to have a Global Pandemic Day,


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 13, 2020)

Whelp.  Brazil's President Bolsonaro tests positive for coronavirus, further testing being done

Brazilian Presidential aid has COVID-19.  Brings aid with him to Washington.  Brazil's president meets with the POTUS.  Days later Brazil's president tests positive for COVID-19.  Guess the White House is getting shut down.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 13, 2020)

If POTUS came down with it I would fully expect the WH to hide it. I would hope so anyway.


----------



## KM6371 (Mar 13, 2020)

Bambi said:


> KY Gov Andy Beshear told all KY PSD Superintendents to be prepared for instructions to come, few hours later counties are closing schools left and right. My counties PSD has a whole month off with online resources for school work.


My high school has 2 weeks off starting monday, and leads all the way up to spring break. The school board and teachers are struggling with figuring out how to convert all our paper classwork into online work. The problem is, not everyone has internet access. For those students, the school will be mailing the classwork. It gets really complicated when the way our school operates is primarily on paper, even though we have school issued computers.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> If POTUS came down with it I would fully expect the WH to hide it. I would hope so anyway.


I would suspect that he's being tested daily.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Mar 13, 2020)

DoDEA schools closing now in Germany, Belgium, and Netherlands.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 13, 2020)

Unaware of Corona Virus, Nickleback continues touring/playing at empty arena's


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 13, 2020)

I spotted a super fan!

@AWP


----------



## Brill (Mar 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I spotted a super fan!
> View attachment 32501



Wanna do karate in the garage?

Separately, COSTCO just outside Atlanta was interesting: no TP, rice or fresh chicken of any kind, and meat section was very limited (picked up 3 briskets though).

Super was $2.09 which was nice.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 13, 2020)

Here's a live world wide tracker from Johns Hopkins. 

Not made for smaller devices. See post below. 
Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Here's a live world wide tracker from Johns Hopkins.
> 
> Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS


An alternate one as well (I found this one works better on my phone):
Coronavirus Update (Live): 144,008 Cases and 5,395 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 13, 2020)

Data dump:

Covid-19 hitting Iran pretty hard, mass graves being dug. Instability in Iran could be contributing to increased militant activity. Hence why the retards are going on the attack.
Coronavirus burial pits so vast they're visible from space

Apparently, other than shifting their slave labor force from the concentration camps in the NW, the CCP are using lung transplants to try and combat covid.
Experts: China Carving Lungs Out of Political Prisoners to Treat Coronavirus

For local news, looks like we had bureaucrats trying to slow roll tests.
Seattle Flu Study researchers defy federal, state guidelines to 'save lives'

Lastly, Italian guide on triage and ethics for covid19.
http://www.siaarti.it/SiteAssets/News/COVID19 - documenti SIAARTI/SIAARTI - Covid19 - Raccomandazioni di etica clinica.pdf


Spoiler: English Translation of Italian document



CLINICAL ETHICS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE ADMISSION TO INTENSIVE TREATMENTS AND FOR THEIR SUSPENSION, IN EXCEPTIONAL CONDITIONS OF IMBALANCE BETWEEN NEEDS AND AVAILABLE RESOURCES

The forecasts for the Coronavirus epidemic (Covid-19) currently underway in some Italian regions estimate an increase in cases of acute respiratory insufficiency (with the need for ICU admission) for the coming weeks in many centers. determine a huge imbalance between the real clinical needs of the population and the effective availability of intensive resources.

It is a scenario in which criteria for access to intensive care (and discharge) may be necessary, not only strictly of clinical appropriateness and proportionality of care, but also inspired by a criterion as shared as possible of distributive justice and appropriate allocation of resources limited health.

A scenario of this kind can be substantially assimilated to the field of "disaster medicine", for which ethical reflection has over time developed many concrete indications for doctors and nurses engaged in difficult choices.

As an extension of the principle of proportionality of care, the allocation in a context of serious shortage (shortage) of health resources must aim to guarantee intensive treatments for patients with greater chances of therapeutic success: it is therefore a matter of privileging the "greatest life expectancy ".

The need for intensive care must therefore be integrated with other elements of "clinical suitability" for intensive care, thus including: the type and severity of the disease, the presence of comorbidity, the compromise of other organs and systems and their reversibility. This means not necessarily having to follow a criterion of access to intensive care of the "first come, first served" type.

It is understandable that the carers, by culture and training, are not accustomed to reasoning with maxi-emergency triage criteria, since the current situation has exceptional characteristics. The availability of resources does not usually enter the decision-making process and the choices of the individual case, until the resources become so scarce that they do not allow to treat all patients who could hypothetically benefit from a specific clinical treatment.

It is implicit that the application of rationing criteria is justifiable only after all the efforts made to increase availability have been made by all the parties involved (in particular the "Crisis Units" and the governing bodies of the hospital units) of resources that can be supplied (in this case, Intensive Care beds) and after any possibility of transferring patients to centers with greater availability of resources has been assessed.

It is important that a modification of the access criteria can be shared as much as possible between the operators involved. Patients and their relatives concerned by the application of the criteria must be informed of the extraordinary nature of the measures in place, for a matter of duty of transparency and maintenance of trust in the public health service. (End of Page 3)

The purpose of the recommendations is also that:
(A) to relieve clinicians from a part of responsibility in the choices, which can be emotionally burdensome, made in individual cases;
(B) to make explicit the allocation criteria of healthcare resources in a condition of their extraordinary scarcity.

From the information currently available, a substantial part of subjects diagnosed with Covid-19 infection require ventilatory support due to interstitial pneumonia characterized by severe hypoxemia. Interstitial disease is potentially reversible, but the acute phase can last many days.

Unlike more familiar ARDS cadres, with the same hypoxemia, Covid-19 pneumonias seem to have slightly better lung compliance and respond better to recruitments, medium-high PEEP, pronation cycles, inhaled nitric oxide. As with the most well-known habitual ARDS cadres, these patients require protective ventilation with low driving pressure.

All this implies that the intensity of care can be high, as well as the use of human resources.
From the data referring to the first two weeks in Italy, about one tenth of infected patients require intensive treatment with assisted, invasive or non-invasive ventilation. (End of Page 4)

Recommendations
1. The extraordinary admission and discharge criteria are flexible and can be adapted locally to the availability of resources, to the real possibility of transferring patients, to the number of accesses underway or planned. The criteria apply to all intensive patients, not only to patients infected with Covid-19 infection.

2. Allocation is a complex and very delicate choice, also due to the fact that an excessive excessive increase in intensive beds would not guarantee adequate care for individual patients and would divert resources, attention and energy from the remaining patients admitted to Intensive Care. The foreseeable increase in mortality due to clinical conditions not linked to the ongoing epidemic, due to the reduction in surgical and outpatient elective activity and the scarcity of intensive resources, should also be considered.

3. It may be necessary to place an age limit on entry into TI. It is not a question of making merely valuable choices, but of reserving resources that could be very scarce to those who have the greatest chance of survival first and secondly to those who may have more years of life saved, with a view to maximizing the benefits for the most Number of person. In a scenario of total saturation of intensive resources, deciding to maintain a "first come, first served" criterion would still amount to choosing not to treat any subsequent patients who would remain excluded from the Intensive Care Unit.

4. The presence of comorbidities and functional status must be carefully assessed, in addition to the registry age. It is conceivable that a relatively short course in healthy people will potentially become longer and therefore more resource consuming on the health service in the case of elderly, frail or severely comorbid patients. The specific and general clinical criteria present in the 2013 multi-company SIAARTI Document on major end-stage organ failure (https://bit.ly/2Ifkphd) can be particularly useful for this purpose. It is also appropriate to refer also to the SIAARTI document relating to the criteria for admission to Intensive Care (Minerva Anestesiol 2003; 69 (3): 101–118)

5. The presence of wishes previously expressed by patients through any DAT (advance treatment provisions) and, in particular, what has been defined (and together with the carers) by people who are already going through time must be carefully considered chronic disease through shared treatment planning.

6. For patients for whom access to an intensive course is deemed "inappropriate", the decision to place a limitation on care ("ceiling of care") should still be motivated, communicated and documented. The ceiling of care placed before mechanical ventilation must not preclude lower cure intensities.

7. Any judgment of inappropriateness in accessing intensive care based solely on distributive justice criteria (extreme imbalance between request and availability) is justified by the extraordinary nature of the situation.

8. In the decision-making process, if situations of particular difficulty and uncertainty arise, it may be useful to have a "second opinion" (possibly even by telephone) from interlocutors of particular experience (for example, through the Regional Coordination Center).

9. The criteria for access to Intensive Care should be discussed and defined for each patient as early as possible, ideally creating in time a list of patients who will be considered deserving of Intensive Care when the clinical deterioration occurs, provided that the availability at that time allow it.
(End of Page 5)
(9 cont.) Any "do not intubate" instruction should be present in the medical record, ready to be used as a guide if the clinical deterioration occurs precipitously and in the presence of carers who have not participated in the planning and who do not know the patient.

10. Palliative sedation in hypoxic patients with disease progression is to be considered necessary as an expression of good clinical practice, and must follow existing recommendations. If a not short agonic period should be foreseen, a transfer in a non-intensive environment must be provided.

11. All accesses to intensive care must in any case be considered and communicated as an "ICU trial" and therefore subject to daily reassessment of the appropriateness, objectives of treatment and proportionality of the treatments. If it is considered that a patient, hospitalized perhaps with borderline criteria, does not respond to an initial prolonged treatment or is severely complicated, a decision of "therapeutic desistance" and a remodulation of intensive to palliative care - in an exceptionally influx scenario high patient count - should not be postponed.

12. The decision to limit intensive care must be discussed and shared as much as possible collegially by the treating team and - as far as possible - in dialogue with the patient (and family members), but it must be able to be timely. It is foreseeable that the need to repeatedly make choices of this type will make the decision-making process more solid and more adaptable to the availability of resources in each Intensive Care Unit.

13. ECMO support, as resource consuming compared to an ordinary ICU admission, in conditions of extraordinary influx, should be reserved for extremely selected cases and with relatively rapid weaning forecast. It should ideally be reserved for high-volume hub centers, for which the ECMO patient absorbs proportionately fewer resources than he would absorb in a center with less expertise.

14. It is important to "network" through the aggregation and exchange of information between centers and individual professionals. When working conditions allow it, at the end of the emergency, it will be important to devote time and resources to moments of debriefing and monitoring of any professional burnout and moral distress of the operators.

15. Relapses on family members hospitalized in IC Covid-19 should also be considered, especially in cases where the patient dies at the end of a period of total visit restriction. (End of Page 6)


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> MLB Spring Training has just been suspended.


Verily, a portent of the apocalypse...


----------



## Brill (Mar 13, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We homeschool...we've never had a teacher workday, a snow day, nothing...we sure as hell aren't going to have a Global Pandemic Day,




The Smart Parent’s Guide To Choosing Children’s Books


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2020)

lindy said:


> The Smart Parent’s Guide To Choosing Children’s Books



Books? What are books?

Seriously though, some of my kids are voracious readers, some of them read kicking and screaming.  But we also have them read things that are controversial or challenging, and books that cover multitude of different topics or subjects.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2020)

Went to a Costco here today, not for TP; we have a stockpile already.  All they had was paper towel and almost every cart had some.   At the cash, the girl said they sold 40 pallets of TP in 9 minutes when they opened.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 13, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> At the cash, the girl said they sold 40 pallets of TP in 9 minutes when they opened.


I still do not understand the whole TP thing.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I still do not understand the whole TP thing.



You, me and any other rational person.  There's already price gouging going on.  I'm disappointed that I didn't stockpile more go get in on shit ticket black market.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 13, 2020)

It's a respiratory disease, not a bowel issue.

I get paper towel for keeping surfaces clean, but TP?


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> It's a respiratory disease, not a bowel issue.
> 
> I get paper towel for keeping surfaces clean, but TP?



Here it's because 2 weeks ago our Federal Health Minister went on National TV and told people to stock up in case they have to self isolate.  We also didn't stop flights in from Iran or China.  So all of a sudden we have an uptick in cases from people returning from said countries.  Now people are going crazy. 

And now basically every public indoor space has been closed as of today for at least 3 weeks.  I expect end of days scenario by next weekend.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 13, 2020)

TP isle at Target in Brainerd, MN. My girlfriend snapped this photo.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 13, 2020)

Our University had a group of students go overseas, some of those students have tested positive for it and are remaining overseas for treatment, the rest of the student group have traveled back and are being quarantined at the residence.  We have a couple other people in our town who are being tested.


----------



## Brill (Mar 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I still do not understand the whole TP thing.



Don‘t remember that aspect of SERE where pri one of any survival situation was clean bunghole. Wonder if it’s a millennial thing?

2020: clean butt, water, shelter, etc


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2020)

We're on our way!  I want to be first in line. 

Here's when Canada's first coronavirus vaccine might be ready


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 13, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> It's a respiratory disease, not a bowel issue.
> 
> I get paper towel for keeping surfaces clean, but TP?


Maybe for covering ones cough and blowing ones nose? Last summer I caught some sort of flu, I was going through so much TP I decided it was cheaper to use an old raggedy T-shirt as a snotrag.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Mar 13, 2020)

I'll go digging around for where I found it, but some observations that picked up are that people are getting TP just because other people are getting TP. Simple as that- which then lead more people to want it because there's a perceived shortage so now there is an actual shortage.

Reminds me of .22 a few years back..


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 13, 2020)

@Bypass mentions there’s cases in north AL, and a nurse having lunch here said there’s 3 cases here. State health nerds put out press release that we finally have our first confirmed case in Montgomery. 🤨


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 13, 2020)

Went to the local Mexican supermarket tonight - plenty of TP.  Gringos can suck it!!


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 13, 2020)

Here's the stupid thing....the law of unintended consequences...

With all kinds of activities are cancelled.   There's nothing to do.  People aren't necessarily going to stay home.  So, what do they do?   Go to the store...Target, Costco, you name it..stores are packed! It's ridiculous and shelves are stripped clean due to irrational behavior.

The one bit of good news is that I just filled my gas tank...$1.95/gal!!! I don't know when I last saw it under $2.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 13, 2020)

This would cripple us.  

PM says Canada exploring whether to close border with U.S.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 13, 2020)

During Snowstorms I fill up my water jugs with milk and bread.  During Hurricanes I fill up my water jugs with water.  During Virus outbreaks that will take over the world I fill those same water jugs up with cheap gas.  Since this is my first Virus outbreak that will take over the world, I don't know what I am going to do if August comes around, and I need water jugs for water again.

That's a tomorrow problem!!!!!


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 13, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This would cripple us.
> 
> PM says Canada exploring whether to close border with U.S.



That would be bad for sure.....


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 13, 2020)

How to avoid Coronavirus according to ISIS:

How to avoid coronavirus, according to ISIS


My favorite is their reason for washing your hands after you wake up.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 13, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> My favorite is their reason for washing your hands after you wake up.





Spoiler: In case you don't want to go hunting for it....



“When one of you wakes from his sleep, let him not dip his hand into the vessels until he washes it three times, for he does not know where his hand spent the night,” the translation read.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Spoiler: In case you don't want to go hunting for it....
> 
> 
> 
> “When one of you wakes from his sleep, let him not dip his hand into the vessels until he washes it three times, for he does not know where his hand spent the night,” the translation read.



They would probably get sick if they started washing their hands.....


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 13, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This would cripple us.
> 
> PM says Canada exploring whether to close border with U.S.


Call them racist. That’ll keep it open


----------



## AWP (Mar 13, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> During Snowstorms I fill up my water jugs with milk and bread.



The IT nerd in me wants to know how you're filling jugs with bread.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> The IT nerd in me wants to know how you're filling jugs with bread.



Soak it in milk....


----------



## AWP (Mar 13, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Soak it in milk....


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 13, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> TP isle at Target in Brainerd, MN. My girlfriend snapped this photo.
> 
> View attachment 32509


Rookies. I'd stock up on baby wipes.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 13, 2020)

Told my neighbor to use armor all wipes.  He'll slide off the shitter if he tries it.....


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 14, 2020)

Unaware of Coronavirus, Nickelback Continues Tour of Playing to Empty Stadiums


----------



## amlove21 (Mar 14, 2020)

Statement by the Department of Defense on Domestic Travel Restrictions

Uhhhhh- hol the frick up. 

Am I reading this right? Did the SECDEF just deny leave except local area to literally everyone in the DoD?


----------



## Intel Nerd (Mar 14, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Statement by the Department of Defense on Domestic Travel Restrictions
> 
> Uhhhhh- hol the frick up.
> 
> Am I reading this right? Did the SECDEF just deny leave except local area to literally everyone in the DoD?



"Additionally, service members will be authorized local leave only, following Service guidelines. This new guidance is effective March 16 and continues through May 11."

Looks like it. This is getting wild. I hope they make an exception for me to go pick up my POV (Iron 883) that I shipped from OCONUS..


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 14, 2020)

Ugh, my R&R is scheduled soon.

ETA..


Ugh, my R&R was scheduled soon.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Mar 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Ugh, my R&R is scheduled soon.
> 
> ETA..
> 
> ...



I know two guys headed to PME here soon from England. I'm not so much worried as them getting canceled for coming here, but what if it gets so bad they can't go back? I'm wondering how many will get stranded from some of these place..


----------



## Board and Seize (Mar 14, 2020)

> This policy applies to Permanent Change of Station (PCS) and Temporary Duty



Here's a link to the actual SECDEF memo


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 14, 2020)

What's leave?  Never heard of her!!!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 14, 2020)

Again, a valuable act or a publicity stunt?

BREAKING NEWS: All Apple stores across the world close for two weeks

Question is, does Best Buy follow suit?

Pressure‘s on “retail” now to do the “right thing”, whatever that is.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 14, 2020)

New direction for Canadian Armed Forces.


----------



## Brill (Mar 14, 2020)

People are crazy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237239256474583040


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> People are crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237239256474583040


As I sit here in my bunker, I ask myself, “how are those same people going to react when the stores have nothing left to hoard or loot?”


----------



## 0699 (Mar 14, 2020)

Wow.  I guess we're going full retard.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 14, 2020)

0699 said:


> Wow.  I guess we're going full retard.


And you are surprised?

LL


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> People are crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237239256474583040


Our two largest grocers have put limits on the amount of toilet paper you can buy but now the cunts have moved on to the rice, flour and pasta. The TP thing was funny for the first week but now it’s just creating problems, particularly for our elderly.

The power of stupid people in large numbers..


----------



## Bambi (Mar 14, 2020)

*packs leaves into a bag while A Country Boy Can Survive is playing* also, yeah we got a fuckton of venison from last year, not nervous about it even if we’re all subject to an extended quarantine.


----------



## 0699 (Mar 14, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> And you are surprised?
> 
> LL


No.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 14, 2020)

Everyone is going to want this guy once the food shortages hit.

LL

Protective dog guards bread while family is away


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 14, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Unaware of Coronavirus, Nickelback Continues Tour of Playing to Empty Stadiums


Late to the game, see posts 545 and 546.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 14, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Late to the game, see posts 545 and 546.


Nah... Nickelback still hasn't got the message.

LL


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 14, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (Mar 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> People are crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237239256474583040



Ever worked retail? Ever wonder why Costco doesn't put up isle signs and you find Kids toys next to the Lobster rolls in the milk section? Impulse buys. The store set those people up for failure. It's an impulse grab when it's right fucking there. The store is as much to blame as the people.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Ever worked retail? Ever wonder why Costco doesn't put up isle signs and you find Kids toys next to the Lobster rolls in the milk section? Impulse buys. The store set those people up for failure. It's an impulse grab when it's right fucking there. The store is as much to blame as the people.


Yeah, the store promotes impulse buying. The store does NOT promote choke slamming some middle aged woman of slight build because she’s six inches closer to that roll of toilet paper that you’ve got your eye on.*

*This incident happened back when I was at a department manager at a Walmart super center. The item in question was actually a razor scooter, as it was the Black Friday Blitz sale, instead of toilet paper. My brother and I have stories for days about what kind of vicious, dickish lemmings the customers can be.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 14, 2020)

Some good advice here.   Acetaminophen or Tylenol only.

Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 14, 2020)

POTUS has tested negative following meeting with Bolsonaro.

Trump tests negative for coronavirus, White House doctor says


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 14, 2020)

Canadian's, including our clown in charge, piss me off.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canadian's, including our clown in charge, piss me off.
> 
> View attachment 32521


I'm gonna guess that your Single-payer system is better than Italy's...


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 14, 2020)

We, or Canada need to close the borders for 30 days.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm gonna guess that your Single-payer system is better than Italy's...



I'm going to say....


----------



## Intel Nerd (Mar 14, 2020)

I think the median age of the country in question has an impact too since it seems to be hitting you harder the older you get.

Italy is ranked 5th.
Canada is ranked 29th.
USA is ranked 61st.

Source: List of countries by median age - Wikipedia


----------



## CQB (Mar 15, 2020)

We have a similar universal system here, it’s not the beginning of Communism.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 15, 2020)

CQB said:


> We have a similar universal system here, it’s not the beginning of Communism.



It's the first thing the PRC commies did to make us communist, even before the PRC existed the crafty bastards!


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

CQB said:


> We have a similar universal system here, it’s not the beginning of Communism.



Yup.   It's not healthcare you have to worry about, it's fucks like this...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm gonna guess that your Single-payer system is better than Italy's...



Here's some data to put things in perspective and it's the same problem Italy had.  Not enough bed's and not enough ventilators. 



> There are @ 3170 ICU beds in Canada. That’s it for all critical care. ICUs in Canada already run at 100% capacity so there’s no room for a surge in demand. At least 10% of people who get COVID-19 require hospitalization. At least 5% of people who get COVID-19 will require mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Consider for a moment that there are 37,000,000 people in Canada. Experts estimate that 30%-70% of the Canadian population will get this virus because nobody is immune. Even if you assume 30% that means 11,000,000 infected and ultimately 555,000 requiring ventilation!! Recovery takes weeks. We don’t have anywhere near the capacity to deal with these demands.
> 
> Not only will we not have ICU beds and ventilators for COVID patients (not by a long shot). We won’t have health care resources for anyone else (heart attacks, strokes, trauma, any need for surgery).


----------



## AWP (Mar 15, 2020)

To everyone hoarding toilet paper: you're fucking morons. You're the reason the planet deserves The Comet. If there is a higher power I'm sure he/she/it is wondering where in the fuck he/she/it went wrong. You fucking donkeys, you and the media...may Nickelback play at your funerals and may the Pakistanis dig your holes.

You're trash human beings. I hope you fall into the 2-3% mortality zone which will make the world a better place. Better yet, everyone who considers themselves a "journalist" should take a dirt nap. This is their creation, they should reap the bumper crop...

The virus isn't the problem, it is humanity, the goddamned idiots occupying this rock. They're the reason I like individuals but hate people.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

I have worked my entire life to get into a place where I can work a good job with a good schedule so I can spend time with my family.

Yesterday I get a page in a text from leadership, they want all hands on deck today, Sunday, to be at the hospital to train up all the units on the various levels of PPE.  On the one hand, yes, it's an emergency, and all. On the other hand, we have been doing train the trainer sessions last week and there enough people at the hospital to turn around and train their staff.

People are going fucking full-retard.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 15, 2020)

People going to see Jesus soon, well they’re going to church and gon’ catch this ‘ronavirus. So yeah. There’s a good chance it’ll spread like wildfire through churches today.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 15, 2020)

We went full potato weeks ago....


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 15, 2020)

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals......"


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

Bambi said:


> People going to see Jesus soon, well they’re going to church and gon’ catch this ‘ronavirus. So yeah. There’s a good chance it’ll spread like wildfire through churches today.



A lot of services here were cancelled.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> A lot of services here were cancelled.


There’s quite a few going on, some people did not like being asked to cancel services until they can figure this thing out.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

Bambi said:


> There’s quite a few going on, some people did not like being asked to cancel services until they can figure this thing out.



It is figured out.  Avoid large groups, that includes church and buying TP at Walmart you don't need.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 15, 2020)

Not much sympathy for people like this, they want capitalism, well they got it. They'll still turn a profit even after sitting on all these supplies.

He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 15, 2020)

Bambi said:


> There’s quite a few going on, some people did not like being asked to cancel services until they can figure this thing out.


Near 100% cancelled where I am at.
They are uploading the sermons to their webpages, FB, and YouTube.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> To everyone hoarding toilet paper: you're fucking morons. You're the reason the planet deserves The Comet. If there is a higher power I'm sure he/she/it is wondering where in the fuck he/she/it went wrong. You fucking donkeys, you and the media...may Nickelback play at your funerals and may the Pakistanis dig your holes.
> 
> You're trash human beings. I hope you fall into the 2-3% mortality zone which will make the world a better place. Better yet, everyone who considers themselves a "journalist" should take a dirt nap. This is their creation, they should reap the bumper crop...
> 
> The virus isn't the problem, it is humanity, the goddamned idiots occupying this rock. They're the reason I like individuals but hate people.



If/when they make a movie about this (and somehow manage to OVER dramatize what's going on)... it needs to be called Beyond Full Retard (although... The Day The Earth Couldn't Wipe Its Ass would be an acceptable substitute)


----------



## Bambi (Mar 15, 2020)

Totentanz said:


> If/when they make a movie about this (and somehow manage to OVER dramatize what's going on)... it needs to be called Beyond Full Retard (although... The Day The Earth Couldn't Wipe It's Ass would be an acceptable substitute)


“It was a shitty time.” - first thing you see on the back of the box.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 15, 2020)

Alabama’s gonna Alabama. Everyone got panicked and bought all the meat and toilet paper they could, because quarantine, then came out to eat at the restaurant I work at. Social distancing can be done, the tables aren’t stacked on top of each other. It’s safe enough, and my tipped employees appreciate the extra dosh.

Until you roll up with 30 in your party, that is. Did you not buy enough beans, rice, and chicken to last two months? Cook that shit at home! Oh, you’re too tired to cook? Order takeout, or have your husband fire up that grill if you just have to eat with thirty of your family members. Oh, that food is for an emergency? Like a random virus that’s closing down everything, and is highly contagious? Why the fuck are you here!!?!?!? Pardon me, we’ll continue this rant later, when you say your food is cold after flapping your gums ten minutes before you pick up a fork; I have 25 more at the door, and I have to warn the kitchen that more little vectors from Hell are at the gates.

So I took the calculated risk that I’d finally be able to do my normal weekly shopping while these ignorant little cum guzzling ass maggots were at church, begging forgiveness for slugging the deacon’s wife over that last pack of Angel Soft. It paid off.

Mobile ought to get by without a scratch, because they’re too fucking stupid to roll over and die without someone else copping a murder charge for it.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 15, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Not much sympathy for people like this, they want capitalism, well they got it. They'll still turn a profit even after sitting on all these supplies.
> 
> He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them



I don't subscribe, but the headline makes it sound like ebay or craigslist or backpage don't exist. Or the corner of the neighborhood. Setup shop next to the 7 year selling lemonade. "Nowhere" isn't a real thing.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 15, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I don't subscribe, but the headline makes it sound like ebay or craigslist or backpage don't exist. Or the corner of the neighborhood. Setup shop next to the 7 year selling lemonade. "Nowhere" isn't a real thing.


I read the article. It’s not that eBay was unknown to him, it’s that eBay and Amazon and other online retailers wouldn’t give him the platform to sell $200 bottles of sanitizer.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Mar 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> NOT directed at you! A piggyback commentary based on your post, nothing more. This is NOT an attack on you.



Ok, sorry.

THANK YOU! THER'S A 10 YEAR OLD IN MY LUGGAGE NOW.....(def sarcasm)

I feel bad I know what you're talking about 🤮


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 15, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I read the article. It’s not that eBay was unknown to him, it’s that eBay and Amazon and other online retailers wouldn’t give him the platform to sell $200 bottles of sanitizer.



BAHAHAH. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that guy then. Why even give the dude a platform...


----------



## Stretcher Jockey (Mar 15, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Whole post.



You have a way with words, and it kills me! Having lived in Louisiana for 5 years, I can imagine a perfectly similar thing happening


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 15, 2020)

Hey @Muppet and the rest of you who work in healthcare.

Thanks for putting yourself out there in the middle of this bullshit. 

Seriously, thank you.


----------



## Brill (Mar 15, 2020)

@BloodStripe, I’m not sure I’m against that (disaster capitalism) but think there is a role in Government intervening although I don’t know where that line is (WWII rationing yes, now...not yet).



> For example, a standard pack of 18 mega rolls of toilet paper goes for $17.88 online at Walmart. On Amazon, the same number of toilet paper rolls are currently being sold for up to $200 because of the novel coronavirus pandemic.



Disaster Capitalism In Full Swing As Kid Caught Selling Squirts Of Hand Sanitizer And Americans Go Berserk At Stores

Canadian couple made over $70,000 reselling Lysol wipes on Amazon at inflated prices

DOD follows supply/demand with MOS management vis a vis financial incentives, yes? (Granted not EXACTLY the same but principles are.)


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 15, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> BAHAHAH. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that guy then. Why even give the dude a platform...


He got capitalism good and hard. You can charge the prices a market will bear, but don’t cry to me when the market won’t bear $200 bottles of sanitizer.


----------



## Brill (Mar 15, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> You can charge the prices a market will bear, but *don’t cry to me when the market won’t bear $200 bottles of sanitizer.*



Or {insert any make of Chevrolet} and ask the USG for a bailout.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be. 



> One young woman claimed, "I have a compromised immune system, but I'm still only 21 ... I'm not even worried because I take supplements and I self medicate."





WATCH: Young Canadians party in streets, scoff at coronavirus warnings


----------



## Brill (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be.
> WATCH: Young Canadians party in streets, scoff at coronavirus warnings



I bet you can see her “taking her supplements“ on Youporn.


----------



## Brill (Mar 15, 2020)

Even local news is spinning this. Video doesn’t equate to headline.

*Frenzied shoppers swarm Georgia Sam’s Club for toilet paper in viral video*

*Read more here: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/article241180256.html#storylink=cpy*


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 15, 2020)

lindy said:


> Even local news is spinning this. Video doesn’t equate to headline.
> 
> *Frenzied shoppers swarm Georgia Sam’s Club for toilet paper in viral video*
> 
> *Read more here: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/article241180256.html#storylink=cpy*


Supposedly, it was over hand sanitizer. Who knows, who cares. They were dumb and trashy. I expect nothing less from Walmart or its derivative retail outlets.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let me guess, salvation via essential oils?


----------



## Muppet (Mar 15, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hey @Muppet and the rest of you who work in healthcare.
> 
> Thanks for putting yourself out there in the middle of this bullshit.
> 
> Seriously, thank you.



Had a case over night. 57 female, recent travel to New York, resp distress, fever, cough.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Had a case over night. 57 female, recent travel to New York, resp distress, fever, cough.



Did you bathe in sanitizer after?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 15, 2020)

SUNDAY UPDATE: Pritzker closes bars, restaurants across Illinois

Wow.  Pretty much shutting down the whole state.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 15, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> SUNDAY UPDATE: Pritzker closes bars, restaurants across Illinois
> 
> Wow.  Pretty much shutting down the whole state.



I'm just not sure this is the correct response.  I see people continuously promoting panic on social media when in fact calm is much better, why?  The stress that is being put on the supply chain in California and other states will prove damaging.  So far is AZ, people have been pretty civilized at the stores.  I've been all over Phoenix area in the last week. 

So here's a question, what happens next year when this one becomes endemic?  Do we stay couped up?  Or do we take a different tactic.  It's clear that we have a societal culture problem when it comes to fitness.  If the virus attacks those who smoke and those who are obese the most, then fitness needs to become a key part of our culture.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

My boss has been in the hospital command center this weekend.  She emailed me a few hours ago, said "it's nuts and info is flowing in like crazy.". She said she wants me to represent our department in the command center tomorrow, but I think I can get out of it.

We are discussing pulling out the ol' SMAT hospital to triage people coming into the ED, and have a separate COVID-19 area for assessment and treatment.

We've got a couple more local cases today.  We'll see how Monday goes.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm just not sure this is the correct response.  I see people continuously promoting panic on social media when in fact calm is much better, why?  The stress that is being put on the supply chain in California and other states will prove damaging.  So far is AZ, people have been pretty civilized at the stores.  I've been all over Phoenix area in the last week.
> 
> So here's a question, what happens next year when this one becomes endemic?  Do we stay couped up?  Or do we take a different tactic.  It's clear that we have a societal culture problem when it comes to fitness.  If the virus attacks those who smoke and those who are obese the most, then fitness needs to become a key part of our culture.



If it becomes endemic or seasonal, it'll just become part of a new norm.  I'd expect an immunization to be fast-tracked.  We'll treat like it the flu.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Did you bathe in sanitizer after?



Bro, I was so freaked out. I lysol'd myself, my  partner, our uniform, cleaned truck. Lol. Fuck this. If we live through this (lol), I'm changing jobs. Being in the ERs, dropping patients off is like being in a giant microorganism of fuck....


----------



## Brill (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> My boss has been in the hospital command center this weekend.  She emailed me a few hours ago, said "it's nuts and info is flowing in like crazy.". She said she wants me to represent our department in the command center tomorrow, but I think I can get out of it.
> 
> We are discussing pulling out the ol' SMAT hospital to triage people coming into the ED, and have a separate COVID-19 area for assessment and treatment.
> 
> We've got a couple more local cases today.  We'll see how Monday goes.



America loves and needs you guys.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238942004970577920


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 15, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Bro, I was so freaked out. I lysol'd myself, my  partner, our uniform, cleaned truck. Lol. Fuck this. If we live through this (lol), I'm changing jobs. Being in the ERs, dropping patients off is like being in a giant microorganism of fuck....



Unass you and your Boss lady, buy a house in the country.  I'm grateful we live out where we do. We're not totally immune but it makes you a little more relaxed.  Stay safe and healthy.


----------



## Dame (Mar 15, 2020)

Aaaaaand cue the fed.
Fed Cuts Rates To Near Zero, Launching $700 Billion Quantitative Easing Program

Time to refi?


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 15, 2020)

Dame said:


> Aaaaaand cue the fed.
> Fed Cuts Rates To Near Zero, Launching $700 Billion Quantitative Easing Program
> 
> Time to refi?




What a fucking dumb move.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Bro, I was so freaked out. I lysol'd myself, my  partner, our uniform, cleaned truck. Lol. Fuck this. If we live through this (lol), I'm changing jobs. Being in the ERs, dropping patients off is like being in a giant microorganism of fuck....



I don't know if you follow ACEP, they put word out that a couple emergency medicine docs are in critical condition with COVID-19. I don't know their location.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I don't know if you follow ACEP, they put word out that a couple emergency medicine docs are in critical condition with COVID-19. I don't know their location.


Two ER doctors in US in ‘critical condition’ with coronavirus


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If it becomes endemic or seasonal, it'll just become part of a new norm.  I'd expect an immunization to be fast-tracked.  We'll treat like it the flu.


Or....what if turns out like SARS in 2003 where it just up and disappears on it's own for some unexplained reason...so, far to never return? 

Crazy times.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Or....what if turns out like SARS in 2003 where it just up and disappears on it's own for some unexplained reason...so, far to never return?
> 
> Crazy times.



Sure, it could go that way. Wouldn't that be nice?


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Or....what if turns out like SARS in 2003 where it just up and disappears on it's own for some unexplained reason...so, far to never return?
> 
> Crazy times.



A possibility,  but unlikely.  As for what @Ooh-Rah said, I'm sure this is the start of a battle headed to SCOTUS


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Sure, it could go that way. Wouldn't that be nice?


🤞

Our local school district just announced cancellation of classes this week, but they're working out a program for first responder families to provide child care/oversight so they can continue to work/provide services. 👍


----------



## Salt USMC (Mar 15, 2020)

Dame said:


> Aaaaaand cue the fed.
> Fed Cuts Rates To Near Zero, Launching $700 Billion Quantitative Easing Program
> 
> Time to refi?


We’re gonna have a recession


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 15, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Serious question -
> 
> So far I've seen the Governors of California, Illinois, and Ohio order all restaurants and bars closed.  Do that have that authority?  Under what rules of law?


From what I saw on twitter, Newsome requested bars close.  I would suspect that certain entities may present legal challenges in Illinois and Ohio.


----------



## Marine0311 (Mar 15, 2020)

I have asked this before, and I want to ask it every so often, but what should I be doing now as an individual?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a rough looking 21. On the other hand, some governments are looking at not curtailing the spread of Covid in their younger populations (Britain & maybe the US). I guess they're trying to have their low risk populations get herd immunity and while having other vulnerable segments self-isolate.

As for that girl, if she gets a severe case she ain't going to make it past triage staff. In Italy, 65 & older and anyone with a prior medical condition or comorbidity is being turned away (regardless of age). Obestity, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, stroke, immunological disorders, etc, are all factors that are going to decide whether or not people make it past triage.

People making dumb jokes and not taking this seriously, are gonna be in for a major shock. If anything, I'm seeing guard troops being stationed at hospitals and people being left to die in their homes. Our medical systems are a joke and they aren't going to weather this without collapses or rationing of services.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> I have asked this before, and I want to ask it every so often, but what should I be doing now as an individual?



How old are you and do you have any medical problems? If you are over 60 and have any medical problems, stay home, take no visitors. I am serious, isolate yourself for a good two or three weeks at least.  Stay away from people.

Otherwise if you have to go out and be out in public, get super anal retentive about washing your hands. Wash your hands frequently with soap and water. Do not touch your face. Did I say stay away from people?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> My boss has been in the hospital command center this weekend.  She emailed me a few hours ago, said "it's nuts and info is flowing in like crazy.". She said she wants me to represent our department in the command center tomorrow, but I think I can get out of it.
> 
> We are discussing pulling out the ol' SMAT hospital to triage people coming into the ED, and have a separate COVID-19 area for assessment and treatment.
> 
> We've got a couple more local cases today.  We'll see how Monday goes.


If Covid spreads like it does in Italy, y'all are about to see a deluge of people in the coming days. If there are multiple hospitals in your area why not designate one of those as a catch-all hub for Covid cases? 

That way you don't risk exposing other patients to the virus and you'll be able to keep standard medical services running (for a time). As Covid cases build up you would have the ability to expand the hub to other hospitals, while shifting non-covid related patients to 'clean' hospitals. 

(Think of it like shifting people between ships, with hospitals being the ships. Infected ships for one type of patient, non infected ships for the other type of patient.)


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If Covid spreads like it does in Italy, y'all are about to see a deluge of people in the coming days. If there are multiple hospitals in your area why not designate one of those as a catch-all hub for Covid cases?
> 
> That way you don't risk exposing other patients to the virus and you'll be able to keep standard medical services running (for a time). As Covid cases build up you would have the ability to expand the hub to other hospitals, while shifting non-covid related patients to 'clean' hospitals.
> 
> (Think of it like shifting people between ships, with hospitals being the ships. Infected ships for one type of patient, non infected ships for the other type of patient.)



We are actually way ahead of you 😉

We have three hospitals in our health system, us the main tertiary care center, and two community hospitals.  We have a plan.  

There are a couple caveats, some things that are inviolable.  We're the only trauma center, we are the only stroke center, we are the only hospital with the three that can handle pediatrics.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 15, 2020)

Thank god for that, was talking to my family (healthcare workers) and their hospital's response has been a joke. I fear it's going to be a clusterfuck for them.

Good to hear some areas have better planning!


----------



## RetPara (Mar 15, 2020)

So I am in the fucked category.  I'll be 65 in September if I don't piss my wife off again.  I had a heart attack on February 5th and escaped with just one stent on the LAD.  My daughter is pulling out of Boston with her stuff in the morning.  Son is helping her move.  We have pretty much-got supplies for 2-3 weeks on hand.  As long as the power holds out we'll be good.  Tomorrow I have to find someone to put a hand pump on the well in the basement and get a fireplace insert for upstairs.  Wife and kids have done incredible work gathering and putting away food.  I'm pretty much confined tot he property for the duration.


----------



## Marine0311 (Mar 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> How old are you and do you have any medical problems? If you are over 60 and have any medical problems, stay home, take no visitors. I am serious, isolate yourself for a good two or three weeks at least.  Stay away from people.
> 
> Otherwise if you have to go out and be out in public, get super anal retentive about washing your hands. Wash your hands frequently with soap and water. Do not touch your face. Dimension stay away from people?



Young. No.

I will do so.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 15, 2020)

RetPara said:


> As long as the power holds out we'll be good.


Good to see you posting, glad you recovered from the heart attack.

Re: the power.  

This evening after seeing the number of businesses fall, I headed out and picked up 50 gallons of gas to run the generator for a while.  I'll likely pick up another 50 over the next week or so.  I can always use it on the lawn more or snow blower.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> People making dumb jokes and not taking this seriously, are gonna be in for a major shock.



A friend had a quote from an infectious disease epidemiologist she shared on Facebook, which I cant find to quote properly but I remember the sentiment of it.

Tons of people keep bring up how bird flu/swine flu wasn't as bad as predicted, or how the regular flu kills more people every year but we aren't worried about that. The reason is that healthcare specialists and public health officials do their jobs (generally) well with those instances.

If all these precautions of social distancing and cancelling events seems like an overreaction in 4 months, it's not because the virus wasnt as worrisome as the news makes it out to be; it's that they did their jobs successfully.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on what the instagram shows me, a friend of mine who lives in Tampa was out with his boat at the Sand Bar.  Easily over 1k people just raging drinking light beer.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 15, 2020)

The people who are hoarding toilet paper and other shit are the same types of people who argue with each other in the comments section of porn videos. 

#changemymind


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Our future...  It's idiots like this that will make this worse than it should be.
> 
> WATCH: Young Canadians party in streets, scoff at coronavirus warnings



Solid loss of a voter. 



Muppet said:


> Bro, I was so freaked out. I lysol'd myself, my  partner, our uniform, cleaned truck. Lol. Fuck this. If we live through this (lol), I'm changing jobs. Being in the ERs, dropping patients off is like being in a giant microorganism of fuck....



This immediately popped into my head.








Kaldak said:


> A possibility,  but unlikely.  As for what @Ooh-Rah said, I'm sure this is the start of a battle headed to SCOTUS



I'm worried about how this whole thing looks in 6 months when people are heading to the polls. 



R.Caerbannog said:


> (Think of it like shifting people between ships, with hospitals being the ships. Infected ships for one type of patient, non infected ships for the other type of patient.)



I could see the government doing that with hotels.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 16, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> The people who are hoarding toilet paper and other shit are the same types of people who argue with each other in the comments section of porn videos.
> 
> #changemymind


Porn videos have comments sections?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 16, 2020)

@RetPara Good on your family for taking care of supply runs. That's awesome! Hope you don't get too bored at home. If it helps, there are members  nerding out in the gaming thread. If you have a PC or console and like westerns, I hear people are nerding out to 'Red Dead Redemption 2'.

@Cookie_  At this point we're making a big show of closing the barn door after the horses got out. This thing has been circulating around the world since December/January. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

@GOTWA They're already doing that with hotels in WA. There was pic of a dude in full PPE roller painting the sign of an Econo Lodge black. (Too add to the craziness, there was a homeless dude who got quarantined at that location... before he walked off. )


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Porn videos have comments sections?


Yep, and there’s also a share to Facebook button as well if you ever find a video you think your friends and family might enjoy as well.

Fun for the whole family.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @Cookie_  At this point we're making a big show of closing the barn door after the horses got out. This thing has been circulating around the world since December/January. Things are going to get worse before they get better.


Talking with a Health & Safety Executive at a major company, their latest data says this thing likely hit the US late Novermber/Early December.  If so, we either are fucked...or less fucked.  

Clearly the Chinese lied and tried to hide this.  If that is the case, this thing was circulating in October.  Do the math with the R0 Factor and that's something stupid like 1M Chinese infected by December 1.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 16, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I read the article. It’s not that eBay was unknown to him, it’s that eBay and Amazon and other online retailers wouldn’t give him the platform to sell $200 bottles of sanitizer.



Someone cracked under the pressure. Guess he didn't like being treated like a criminal. 

The man with 17,700 bottles of hand sanitizer just donated them



DA SWO said:


> Porn videos have comments sections?



Someone obviously doesn't make it to the bottom of the page in time...


----------



## TYW27 (Mar 16, 2020)

I've heard a lot about how this COVID-19 affects the older populations but what about younger kids? I have two daughters 3 years and 6 months. The 3 year old has had Pneumonia already. We live in the city in an apartment complex, so we are trying to keep our distance as much as possible.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 16, 2020)

TYW27 said:


> I've heard a lot about how this COVID-19 affects the older populations but what about younger kids? I have two daughters 3 years and 6 months. The 3 year old has had Pneumonia already. We live in the city in an apartment complex, so we are trying to keep our distance as much as possible.



For the most part, healthy children have basically shown that they're immune. 

However, if your 3 yr old already has pneumonia she's immunocompromised.  So treat both your daughters with the same care as your grandparents.



GOTWA said:


> Someone cracked under the pressure. Guess he didn't like being treated like a criminal.
> 
> The man with 17,700 bottles of hand sanitizer just donated them



That dude could have made money hand over fist if he priced it all reasonably...Also, the NYT writer was like-since this profile was written the subject and his wife have received thousands of threats...yeah, well no shit.  What did you think would happen when you published that?


----------



## J. (Mar 16, 2020)

Just got out of the staff meeting over this, I’m in 2 MARDIV. I won’t get into all the details but to give a bit of perspective on how seriously this is being handled I’ll share this snip. This is completely unclass.

“Any Marine/Sailor who’s family member is killed via COVID-19 will NOT be allowed to travel for funeral proceedings unless it causes massive family hardship and in that case must be approved by a general officer.”


----------



## RetPara (Mar 16, 2020)

That is harsh...

I'm an old school gamer.  I have WinSteelPanthers Main Battle Tank which covers the world from 1948 to 2025.  Comes with about 500+ canned scenarios.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 16, 2020)

TYW27 said:


> I've heard a lot about how this COVID-19 affects the older populations but what about younger kids? I have two daughters 3 years and 6 months. The 3 year old has had Pneumonia already. We live in the city in an apartment complex, so we are trying to keep our distance as much as possible.



Also @ThunderHorse , children can get COVID-19, and the symptoms are typically less severe than in adults.  Also, it is thought that children are high-proportion carriers; that is, they will carry it and not convert/be symptomatic.  This is why all the schools are closing.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Also @ThunderHorse , children can get COVID-19, and the symptoms are typically less severe than in adults.  Also, it is thought that children are high-proportion carriers; that is, they will carry it and not convert/be symptomatic.  This is why all the schools are closing.


Concur.  From what I've read, it's suspected that young children may be asymptomatic carriers.  There have been zero reported deaths in the 0 - 9yr old category.  However, that doesn't mean they aren't infected/don't carry the virus.  As with all, precautions need to be taken.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 16, 2020)

My MiL is trapped at the hospital since my FiL heart attack. The hospital just went to a 0 visitor policy meaning she cannot leave his room. The hospital has closed the cafeteria as well. We are working the logistics of getting food to her via hospital nurses.  This is insane.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 16, 2020)

Canada is shutting down.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cb...reening-trudeau-covid19-coronavirus-1.5498866


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canada is shutting down.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cb...reening-trudeau-covid19-coronavirus-1.5498866


Couple months too late.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Couple months too late.



Absolutely.  He was asked several questions if he made a mistake or had regrets; deflected every one of them.   I honestly think he didn't care until his wife was infected.


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 16, 2020)

Fuck it. I fucking hate people, if you come to me clearly sick then proceed to bitch at me because I wasn't wearing gloves as I hand you your food because you don't want to catch Covid-19 from me or my restaurant? Even though if you're that fucking worried you should be staying at home and eating instead, but no, you're too fucking lazy and inconsiderate to do that.

I hope you die either from the coronavirus or get T-boned by a semi at the intersection outside. Humanity deserves to be wiped out, how we haven't caused an extinction level event yet is beyond me. We are so fucking fearful and impulsive as a species it's horrendous. 

You wanna know the deficiencies that will be laid bare? It's not the commies, not our supply chains, not the god damned virus itself and our fragile immunity. No it's our short sighted and fucking oblivious species we call Mankind. 

I hope this turns into the Spanish Flu 2.0: Electric Boogaloo now, maybe we can thin out the population a little bit and kick Darwinism into overdrive.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 16, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Fuck it. I fucking hate people, if you come to me clearly sick then proceed to bitch at me because I wasn't wearing gloves as I hand you your food because you don't want to catch Covid-19 from me or my restaurant? Even though if you're that fucking worried you should be staying at home and eating instead, but no, you're too fucking lazy and inconsiderate to do that.
> 
> I hope you die either from the coronavirus or get T-boned by a semi at the intersection outside. Humanity deserves to be wiped out, how we haven't caused an extinction level event yet is beyond me. We are so fucking fearful and impulsive as a species it's horrendous.
> 
> ...


Are you okay?


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 16, 2020)

Bambi said:


> Are you okay?










Just tired of people going full retard, and tired of every news outlet spreading fear.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 16, 2020)

J. said:


> Just got out of the staff meeting over this, I’m in 2 MARDIV. I won’t get into all the details but to give a bit of perspective on how seriously this is being handled I’ll share this snip. This is completely unclass.
> 
> “Any Marine/Sailor who’s family member is killed via COVID-19 will NOT be allowed to travel for funeral proceedings unless it causes massive family hardship and in that case must be approved by a general officer.”



Sounds like the Marines went full retard. 



SaintKP said:


> No it's our short sighted and fucking oblivious species we call Mankind.



How about womankind too? #sexist


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 16, 2020)

folks this is about to get worse. You better have your shit together.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How about womankind too? #sexist



Not woke enough...  It's peoplekind.  lol


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Couple months too late.


That's really the political side of the problem, isn't it?

Close up shop too early and every says why...nothing going on? Could you imagine the response if we had today's mandates even three weeks ago?

Of course, there's the flip side as well.  Close up too late, and it's, well, why were you sitting on your ass?

The window to getting it "right" is pretty fucking narrow.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 16, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> folks this is about to get worse. You better have your shit together.


I has toilet paper.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 16, 2020)

For anybody needing some brevity in all this, here's a song about the dude who bought all the hand sanitizer. Bit of NSFW language.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Porn videos have comments sections?


you must not watch the credits....


----------



## Dame (Mar 16, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> you must not watch the credits....


OK stop. That's embarrassing sweetie. You are gonna ruin my reputation with talk like that.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Not woke enough...  It's peoplekind.  lol


What happened to the good old fashioned term, human?

LL


----------



## Gordus (Mar 16, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> What happened to the good old fashioned term, human?
> 
> LL



It still has 'man' in it, which is sexist. 'People' is also pretty xenophobic as it excludes aliens and is offensive to the ones held in Area-51, also attack helicopters. So to avoid any preference, it should be "allkind"


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 16, 2020)

Gordus said:


> It still has 'man' in it, which is sexist. 'People' is also pretty xenophobic as it excludes aliens and is offensive to the ones held in Area-51, also attack helicopters. So to avoid any preference, it should be "allkind"


Homo sapien?

Sentient beings?

LL


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 16, 2020)

On another note, apparently I've got a free iPhone 11 on the way to keep me entertained.

"Due to the COVID-19 outbreak we will give out free iPhone 11 smartphones to keep you entertained. LL, click on .... <Spam link>"

LL


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 16, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Homo sapien?
> 
> Sentient beings?
> 
> LL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


>


What a douche.


----------



## 0699 (Mar 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Talking with a Health & Safety Executive at a major company, their latest data says this thing likely hit the US late Novermber/Early December.  If so, we either are fucked...or less fucked.


I was really sick the first week in December.  Like, stayed home for three and a half days sick.  Cough, fever, body aches.



So I'm probably immune to the corona virus.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 16, 2020)

Well, ASU went full remote for the remainder of the semester.  Remote Law School is about to get weird.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 16, 2020)

0699 said:


> I was really sick the first week in December.  Like, stayed home for three and a half days sick.  Cough, fever, body aches.
> 
> 
> 
> *So I'm probably patient zero with the corona virus.*


FIFY


----------



## Bambi (Mar 16, 2020)

'Game of Thrones' actor says he tested positive for Covid-19

NOT TORMUND!


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 16, 2020)

Bambi said:


> 'Game of Thrones' actor says he tested positive for Covid-19
> 
> NOT TORMUND!



Why couldn't it have been Rickon? Further proof that we stray further from the light of our Lord.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 16, 2020)

After grabbing all the TP and water needed to survive, San Antonians are now grabbing all the ammo they can get.  I shit you not (cause I need my TP).


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 16, 2020)

Our Reserve Bank is meeting on Thursday and it’s fairly certain they’ll drop our rate to .25%, and then quantitative easing won’t be too far behind that. 

I can’t speak for everyone here but pretty much every single person I’ve come across is more worried about the economical impact than health. This will probably push us into recession.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 16, 2020)

- A haiku -

_        I don't like people_
_Most are selfish greedy cunts_
_   Please distance yourself _


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> - A haiku -
> 
> _        I don't like people_
> _Most are selfish greedy cunts_
> _Please social distance yourself _



I don't know if that's actually a haiku but you get an A++ for correct use of The Word.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 16, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I don't know if that's actually a haiku but you get an A++ for correct use of The Word.


LOL

I went 5-7-7 on the bit!
Thanks for calling it out, I fixed it!


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> LOL
> 
> I went 5-7-7 on the bit!
> Thanks for calling it out, I fixed it!



That wasn't actually a callout, I've just got no fucking idea about ancient Japanese poetry


----------



## CQB (Mar 16, 2020)

Gordus said:


> It still has 'man' in it, which is sexist. 'People' is also pretty xenophobic as it excludes aliens and is offensive to the ones held in Area-51, also attack helicopters. So to avoid any preference, it should be "allkind"


Can we hold hands & join in a chorus of Elderly Man River? 
(he doesn’t plant cotton, he doesn’t plant potatoes).


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 17, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> What happened to the good old fashioned term, human?
> 
> LL



What about the...things that believe they're animals or objects?



0699 said:


> I was really sick the first week in December.  Like, stayed home for three and a half days sick.  Cough, fever, body aches.
> 
> So I'm probably immune to the corona virus.


Probably not.


----------



## Gordus (Mar 17, 2020)

CQB said:


> .... of Elderly *Man* River? ...



Wha ... he ... he said "MAN" ! Someone ! Call the authorities ! 







Jokes aside, that skit aged well.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 17, 2020)

And we're in a state of emergency. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/coronavirus-covid-19-ontario-tuesday-1.5500006


----------



## Bambi (Mar 17, 2020)

I can’t wait to be in a FEMA camp! I heard they’ve got wet wipes!


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 17, 2020)

Might be a state of emergency but the essential stores are open. 

LCBO and Beer Store to remain open during Ontario's coronavirus state of emergency - CityNews Toronto


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 17, 2020)

De Blasio wants a Federal Shelter-In Place order...what the President needs to do is put a gag order on De Blasio.



RackMaster said:


> Might be a state of emergency but the essential stores are open.
> 
> LCBO and Beer Store to remain open during Ontario's coronavirus state of emergency - CityNews Toronto



On Saturday, Pennsylvania closes their beer and liquor stores.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ...De Blasio wants a Federal Shelter-In Place order...what the President needs to do is put a gag order on De Blasio.



I honestly think that some of those clowns are trying to "outdo" some of the other clowns in who can do the most. He seems to want to be the leader....


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> De Blasio wants a Federal Shelter-In Place order...what the President needs to do is put a gag order on De Blasio.
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, Pennsylvania closes their beer and liquor stores.



Canada would implode without our booze.


----------



## sah2117 (Mar 17, 2020)




----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 17, 2020)

French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial

Posted from a Dr. friend of mine I went to high school with.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 17, 2020)

Crow-sourced US data project, numbers much greater than CDC's

The COVID Tracking Project


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 17, 2020)

Straight from the "Holy shit, this doesn't make the news" file:

I was talking with some administrators today.  Apparently some staff--nurses, RTs, and some others--have flatly refused to come in, effectively quitting.  Also other staff just not showing up for work.  Not huge numbers, but one is one too many.  But it goes to underscore human nature.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 17, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> ...But it goes to underscore human nature...



Indeed it does. That's why those that don't have a clue -- medically -- with what is being dealt with panics the way they do when stuff is thrown at them 24/7.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 17, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Straight from the "Holy shit, this doesn't make the news" file:
> 
> I was talking with some administrators today.  Apparently some staff--nurses, RTs, and some others--have flatly refused to come in, effectively quitting.  Also other staff just not showing up for work.  Not huge numbers, but one is one too many.  But it goes to underscore human nature.


Not surprised.  My guess is that these were bottom 10%ers that were half-assing it anyway.  So, as much as it strains the workload, it's probably for the better of anyone.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 17, 2020)




----------



## Dame (Mar 17, 2020)

From Amazon (and not a bad idea IMHO):


> _Serving our customers_
> We believe our role serving customers and the community during this time is a critical one, and we want to make sure our customers can get the items they need, when they need them. As COVID-19 has spread, we've recently seen an increase in people shopping online which has had an impact on how we serve our customers. So in the short term, we are making the decision to temporarily prioritize household staples, medical supplies and other high demand products coming into our fulfillment centers so we can more quickly receive, restock and ship these products to customers. We are working around the clock with our selling partners to ensure availability of these essential products, and continue to bring on additional capacity to deliver customer orders. _March 17, 2020._
> 
> While Amazon will continue taking orders and shipping items from across our store, customers ordering items they don’t need immediately have the opportunity to help others by choosing No-Rush Shipping. Selecting the No-Rush option enables us to consolidate orders and make fewer stops in neighborhoods throughout the week, and most importantly, serve customers with the most critical needs first. _March 17, 2020._


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 17, 2020)

Anyone else on double wipe, single ply rations with TP yet...?   Asking for a friend!!!!


----------



## Dame (Mar 17, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Anyone else on double wipe, single ply rations with TP yet...?   Asking for a friend!!!!


That sounds just like the text from my oldest yesterday.


----------



## Brill (Mar 17, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Anyone else on double wipe, single ply rations with TP yet...?   Asking for a friend!!!!



Sounds like you need this. The video is like multiple Trainwrecks.

How to Use Toilet Paper Properly?


----------



## Brill (Mar 17, 2020)

Is this @Polar Bear ? this song is spot on.


----------



## CQB (Mar 17, 2020)

Needed a laugh after the foraging this morning, cheers all. 👍 one thing I did notice was a couple of times random people walking directly into & across traffic as if the daily commute should grind to a halt for them. Not homeless, but looked well off. Hopefully this isn’t a sign for the next couple of months in the city.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 17, 2020)

The state of Wisconsin, with the least expensive booze, and bars galore, has had a Governor close them all. Restaurants included.

I was loving my quiet time at local establishments.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> On the flipside, I did not vote for this Democratic governor of Minnesota but I am amazed at the national attention he’s received because of the leadership that he has shown and the urgency in which he has acted.
> 
> My issues with him are more related to guns and  “social justice“ but I will say when this is all over and we get back to some sense of normalcy, I think I’m going to take a few minutes and really  taking assess what is and is not important.


I'm really impressed with our governor also.  He and his government are really advocating social distancing even though we've only got 9 confirmed cases in the entire state (1 mil population). Everything is closing down and a lot of it is local choice.

LL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 17, 2020)

If anyone needs any help/assistance with setting up a home office for working remote, send me a note.  I've had 'remote' jobs most of my career and will help as best I can with any technical, logistics or questions you might have.


----------



## 757 (Mar 17, 2020)

On a more serious note, on March 26th 2020 the Federal reserve is reducing the reserve requirement ratios to zero percent. As a non-economics major, I have a very cursory understanding of this subject. That said, apparently the primary reason for having 3-10% in reserve is to prevent a run on the banks. Ostensibly, the reduction is being done to stimulate the economy (thanks Corona) by increasing the amount banks can loan ordinary citizens/businesses. That said, if people randomly get spooked and dollar bills become the new toilet paper, this could cause a major problem.

Just throwing it out there because I haven't seen anything about it on the news.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 17, 2020)

I am pleasantly surprised by my governor. I did not vote in this last gubernatorial election, however, he is fostering a great example for all governors to follow. All restaurants are closed (takeouts and deliveries are up) and other public gathering points have followed to this example. Any person who is to go to the hospital in fear of having COVID-19, they will call ahead and medical personnel will come out to their vehicles and perform a test there, to limit exposure to as little people as possible.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 17, 2020)

Oregon's made a constitutionally illegal executive order for banning meetings of more than 25 people to include church events (unless they can maintain 6' separation between people, but still) as well as stockpiling actions are now illegal, school's out for the next month (including my college, which sorta kinda fucks shit up for me pretty hard) among other jazz.

First death from COVID was in the Portland VA Hospital.  Needless to say, if it wasn't already on the matrix, I'd be doing telehealth lol.


----------



## CQB (Mar 17, 2020)

757 said:


> View attachment 32579
> 
> 
> On a more serious note, on March 26th 2020 the Federal reserve is reducing the reserve requirement ratios to zero percent. As a non-economics major, I have a very cursory understanding of this subject. That said, apparently the primary reason for having 3-10% in reserve is to prevent a run on the banks. Ostensibly, the reduction is being done to stimulate the economy (thanks Corona) by increasing the amount banks can loan ordinary citizens/businesses. That said, if people randomly get spooked and dollar bills become the new toilet paper, this could cause a major problem.
> ...


Moves like this have been quietly done here. The most recent is an attempt to get rid of the $A100 bill. This is framed as a move to stop ‘pedophiles, terrorists & outlaw motorcycle gangs moving large amounts of money.’ The general population lap it up, but it’s ridiculous given that these groups are such a small percentage of the general population & they’ll just do it in smaller denominations anyway. (full disclosure, I don’t belong to any of these groups). The other measure was to limit withdrawal amounts to a floor of say, $A1000 no ifs or buts in anticipation of a run on funds. I can only speculate that the move as mentioned is similar but further up the food chain.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ohio ain't f'ing around....
> 
> View attachment 32584


Aren't all liquor stores "carry out"?  Or do I have to order on the internet for that to work?

Total Wine shut down their online ordering system due to the insane volume.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 17, 2020)

CQB said:


> Moves like this have been quietly done here. The most recent is an attempt to get rid of the $A100 bill. This is framed as a move to stop ‘pedophiles, terrorists & outlaw motorcycle gangs moving large amounts of money.’ The general population lap it up, but it’s ridiculous given that these groups are such a small percentage of the general population & they’ll just do it in smaller denominations anyway. (full disclosure, I don’t belong to any of these groups). The other measure was to limit withdrawal amounts to a floor of say, $A1000 no ifs or buts in anticipation of a run on funds. I can only speculate that the move as mentioned is similar but further up the food chain.



The thought behind that is that if you say, got rid of the 100 the next size down is the fiddy. That means that when they try to move it around physically (either through a border or domestically) that it's twice as bulky and harder to disguise. I dunno where I sit on it.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Straight from the "Holy shit, this doesn't make the news" file:
> 
> I was talking with some administrators today.  Apparently some staff--nurses, RTs, and some others--have flatly refused to come in, effectively quitting.  Also other staff just not showing up for work.  Not huge numbers, but one is one too many.  But it goes to underscore human nature.


Not sure what the PPE or leadership situation there is, but you guys may have to start offering more pay, better incentives, and start getting rid of leadership that isn't going to be on the front lines for this.

Not saying that there isn't tomfoolery going on, but people tend to stick together when they have good equipment and leaders who will watch their backs while they get the job done. I know it sounds simplistic. If there is an issue with leadership or gear, people ain't liable to risk themselves and their families when the grass is greener on the other side.

(Not trying to be mean, but administrators tend to be the bane of the rank and file in the medical field. If people are walking off, look for causes at the admin level.)


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 18, 2020)

757 said:


> View attachment 32579
> 
> That said, if people randomly get spooked and dollar bills become the new toilet paper, this could cause a major problem.


That's why there is a gold standard, since you can at least rinse it off afterwards.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> The thought behind that is that if you say, got rid of the 100 the next size down is the fiddy. That means that when they try to move it around physically (either through a border or domestically) that it's twice as bulky and harder to disguise. I dunno where I sit on it.



My unit has restricted gatherings to no more than six people.

Six.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

Exponential growth curve doesn't continue indefinitely.  

Israeli Nobel Laureate: Coronavirus spread is slowing


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> My unit has restricted gatherings to no more than six people.
> 
> Six.



Sorry mate I'm talking about what is now the valueless 'Strayan dollar (or at least it must be since ours is now stronger than it ).

How do you guys get along with just six? Video Conferencing?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Not sure what the PPE or leadership situation there is, but you guys may have to start offering more pay, better incentives, and start getting rid of leadership that isn't going to be on the front lines for this.
> 
> Not saying that there isn't tomfoolery going on, but people tend to stick together when they have good equipment and leaders who will watch their backs while they get the job done. I know it sounds simplistic. If there is an issue with leadership or gear, people ain't liable to risk themselves and their families when the grass is greener on the other side.
> 
> (Not trying to be mean, but administrators tend to be the bane of the rank and file in the medical field. If people are walking off, look for causes at the admin level.)




No, they're spineless civilians that got into the profession of taking care of sick and injured and when their community needed them most, fucked off.

I'd honestly press for fucking their world over, but that's just me.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Sorry mate I'm talking about what is now the valueless 'Strayan dollar (or at least it must be since ours is now stronger than it ).
> 
> How do you guys get along with just six? Video Conferencing?



Hm, reading comprehension is hard for me, apparently. ;)

Today was the first day we did this, so we're still figuring it out.  Some meetings were cancelled outright, others moved to VTC, still others had the attendees drastically cut back, and some meetings, we cycle people in and out of the room.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 18, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> No, they're spineless civilians that got into the profession of taking care of sick and injured and when their community needed them most, fucked off.
> 
> I'd honestly press for fucking their world over, but that's just me.


I dunno man. People are people and some might have more pressing matters like safeguarding their children, elderly parents, or even grandparents. People living in multigenerational homes isn't as uncommon as it used to be. On the other hand, money talks and our medical system has been notoriously bloated and expensive. 

If someone loses faith in their work, to just walk away, there are clearly other issues at stake.


----------



## CQB (Mar 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> The thought behind that is that if you say, got rid of the 100 the next size down is the fiddy. That means that when they try to move it around physically (either through a border or domestically) that it's twice as bulky and harder to disguise. I dunno where I sit on it.


Concur, though as the OMG are the famous or infamous 1% I think the ‘run on banks’ factor is closer to reality. It’s promotion of a perception of safety over a factor of fear where F = whateverweretolditis.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 18, 2020)

Interesting secondary issue popping up due to volume of telecommuters: limited provider bandwidth for meeting services, such as Skype, Lync, etc.  This is not an internet bandwidth issue.  Demand on these services is so high, that providers need to scale up their capacity.  They'll get it done but there are sporadic issues currently.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 18, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I dunno man. People are people and some might have more pressing matters like safeguarding their children, elderly parents, or even grandparents. People living in multigenerational homes isn't as uncommon as it used to be. On the other hand, money talks and our medical system has been notoriously bloated and expensive.
> 
> If someone loses faith in their work, to just walk away, there are clearly other issues at stake.



They're conscientious objectors of the healthcare industry. Safeguarding their children and elderly is the whole point of this thing. Running into fire to stop the spread so others can live.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 18, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> They're conscientious objectors of the healthcare industry. Safeguarding their children and elderly is the whole point of this thing. Running into fire to stop the spread so others can live.


Not with this virus. The lack of PPE, lack of medicine, and some hospitals muted responses to what's going on, are akin to putting out a house fire with a squirt gun. My direct family works in the health care system and it's not all buttercups and roses.

Hospitals and our medical systems screwed the pooch when they outsourced all their vital supply chains to the Chinese. Add in dash of admin incompetence and profit chasing for a perfect storm. If your people are cutting sling load or don't have confidence in their superiors something is wrong. There isn't smoke without fire.

That being said... yeah, there are some people of dubious character in the health care field. Thing is, if your front line workers aren't showing up or are showing a loss of confidence in hospital leadership, response, equipment, etc, something is really wrong. These are the people that are out front every day, they know what's up.

On the other hand... if the rest of the staff are motivated, confident in their equipment, and leadership, then you're on to something.

Add on: Apologies for having to edit my posts so darn much. I write how I speak and that ain't always a good thing.


----------



## Brill (Mar 18, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> My unit has restricted gatherings to no more than six people.
> 
> Six.



Sounds like you have a Surreal Team.


----------



## AWP (Mar 18, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Interesting secondary issue popping up due to volume of telecommuters: limited provider bandwidth for meeting services, such as Skype, Lync, etc.  This is not an internet bandwidth issue.  Demand on these services is so high, that providers need to scale up their capacity.  They'll get it done but there are sporadic issues currently.



2nd and 3rd order effects of panic. I like how we've talked ourselves into voluntary martial law...I look forward to Congress passing the COVID-19 Act of 2020 in response to future medical crises.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 18, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Exponential growth curve doesn't continue indefinitely.
> 
> Israeli Nobel Laureate: Coronavirus spread is slowing



Interesting conclusions, doesn't match some of our epi models.  I think we're still a couple or three weeks out from seeing how much these social distancing and forced shutdowns will help.


----------



## AWP (Mar 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> 100% great take and something I’ve been thinking a lot about.
> 
> For future “events”:
> Level 3 - All concerts/sports cancelled
> ...



We talked ourselves into the Patriot Act because we were afraid of another 9/11. I'm concerned we're weak or afraid enough to talk ourselves into something as equally stupid.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

Took me a sec to 'get this'....LOL


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> We talked ourselves into the Patriot Act because we were afraid of another 9/11. I'm concerned we're weak or afraid enough to talk ourselves into something as equally stupid.



I'm more concerned with the idea of "emergency" measures becoming routine. (related to what you posed, not refuting it)


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

So gun sales are up 600 percent including ammunition. So gun check, toilet paper check, water check.


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 18, 2020)

SOCOM has all of us reservists emailing our daily status.


----------



## Brill (Mar 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> SOCOM has all of us reservists emailing our daily status.



You guys still working 40-hour weeks?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> 2nd and 3rd order effects of panic. I like how we've talked ourselves into voluntary martial law...I look forward to Congress passing the COVID-19 Act of 2020 in response to future medical crises.



People really don't get it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

Yesterday:  Girlfriend is a hairdresser.
Today:  Girlfriend is an out of work hairdresser.


Spoiler: Tomorrow....



Girlfriend is NOT moving in with me, oh hell no!


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 18, 2020)

Canada is spending 3% of GDP in financial support between tax deferrals and direct compensation. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/economic-aid-package-coronavirus-1.5501037


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

Today's Press Conference-


Defense Production Act will be invoked.
USNS Mercy is deploying to NYC
USNS Comfort is preparing to go underway.
FEMA is activated to level 1.
HUD evictions and foreclosures have been suspended thru April.
Working on self-swab testing accuracy, if they can gain accuracy self-swab testing will be deployed.
DoD is prepared to deploy 2000 operational deployable ventilators to DHHS use.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 18, 2020)

We might get a vaccine quicker than thought, thanks to China not giving a fuck about human safety.  lol

COVID-19: Fast-tracked vaccine receives approval in China to begin human trials at virus epicentre


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> We might get a vaccine quicker than thought, thanks to China not giving a fuck about human safety.  lol
> 
> COVID-19: Fast-tracked vaccine receives approval in China to begin human trials at virus epicentre



So they've had this thing for four months and just started human trials?  (We deployed a limited human trial on Monday)


----------



## 757 (Mar 18, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Mar 18, 2020)

This is not good.   

China threatens to restrict critical drug exports to U.S.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is not good.
> 
> China threatens to restrict critical drug exports to U.S.


But, but, but... Their drugs were cheaper than keeping the manufacturing in the States!

US businesses - you are now learning first hand the concept of consequences. How do you like your brazillion dollars now?

LL


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is not good.
> 
> China threatens to restrict critical drug exports to U.S.


We should have never been in a position of dependence in the first place. Some hard lessons are going to be learned from this pandemic.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is not good.
> 
> China threatens to restrict critical drug exports to U.S.


Not good, but not unexpected.

We are calling the Chinese government out in fomenting the belief that the US Army is responsible for the origination of COVID-19.

The Chinese government went to insane (by our standards) lengths to censor information as their outbreak was first starting out, just to save face. Look back to the first pages of this thread for posts about the one doctor that died from it, and the Chicom government couldn’t even coordinate their lie about his condition

We were stupid enough to outsource almost all — ALL — of our pharmaceutical production to the Chinese communists (as if the requirements for having an industrial presence in China, especially regarding intellectual property and trade secrets, wasn’t onerous or frightening enough), who have not been subtle in their bid to become the top dog in world domination.

The Chinese holding our nation’s well-being for ransom unless we capitulate to their attempts to deflect blame onto ourselves should almost have been expected. Considering Xi is thought to be their most powerful ruler since Chairman Mao himself, it’s not surprising at all.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Mar 18, 2020)

Well I guess this shit ain’t so Goddamn funny anymore is it. 
I weighed in on what my multiple years of experience in this field. Has led me to conclude. 
I hope that along with the grabasstic behavior. Someone paid a little more than a passing glance of attention. 
I have been telling people from the start. What was going to happen. 

I don’t like to be the one to shit in the punch bowl. But, I guess there is no need to worry now... is there.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Mar 18, 2020)

So yeah... I told you so😘


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> We should have never been in a position of dependence in the first place. Some hard lessons are going to be learned from this pandemic.



People will look for a reason to blame Trump even if the Chinese are 100% to blame. I believe many will not learn from this experience.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 18, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> People will look for a reason to blame Trump even if the Chinese are 100% to blame. I believe many will not learn from this experience.


There are worlds of difference between @Salt USMC saying that POTUS is the reason he can’t find toilet paper while getting his dick sucked for that dozen eggs he’s got in his cart, and a full-on propaganda campaign to shift blame from one country to the other. The fact that they are blaming the Army for spreading it at an event they didn’t even attend is their way of trying to allude to it as an act of war. They won’t say it, but that’s their “read between the lines” message.

Maybe I shouldn’t have learned how to read Pravda  as a youngster.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

Did you guys hear on the news? The doctor who said images of YOUNG peoples lungs after contracting and surviving the COVID 19 virus are TERRIFYING. Permanent lung damage to all who survive. I foresee lower PT standards for our military survivors.


----------



## Brill (Mar 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Maybe I shouldn’t have learned how to read Pravda  as a youngster.



It‘s done me very well Comrade.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU RAISE PANGOLINS AS LIVESTOCK?

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2

A look at SAR-COV-2 Genome.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 18, 2020)

Well things are getting sporty in my area. my department, clinical education and professional development, we've suspended all classes until at least May 31st, with an option of going longer if we need to. We are teaching the hospital all things related to Coronavirus and PPE, and we will be put into a resource pool from which to draw clinicians to work in the hospital.

We started drive-thru testing today, I'll post a couple pictures later. We have approximately 20 patients with high suspicion who have been tested, one pediatric patient who is in critical condition if he is still alive.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Well things are getting sporty in my area. my department, clinical education and professional development, we've suspended all classes until at least May 31st, with an option of going longer if we need to. We are teaching the hospital all things related to Coronavirus and PPE, and we will be put into a resource pool from which to draw clinicians to work in the hospital.
> 
> We started drive-thru testing today, I'll post a couple pictures later. We have approximately 20 patients with high suspicion who have been tested, one pediatric patient who is in critical condition if he is still alive.


Be careful out there Doc.

Off topic but I just thought of a way to get out of a speeding ticket. I haven't been pulled over in 25 years but here is the idea.

Get you a piece of paper and write "I have the corona virus" on it and keep your window up as the officer approaches and hold the paper up to your window. I bet you'll be on your way in no time. 

Ah someone beat me to it.


----------



## CQB (Mar 18, 2020)

Cops here aren’t doing RBT, soooo...


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

CQB said:


> Cops here aren’t doing RBT, soooo...


I haven't been keeping up with the Aussies. How are ya'll doing over there?


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Off topic but I just thought of a way to get out of a speeding ticket. I haven't been pulled over in 25 years but here is the idea.
> 
> Get you a piece of paper and write "I have the corona virus" on it and keep your window up as the officer approaches and hold the paper up to your window. I bet you'll be on your way in no time.



I got a giggle from that one. However, the officers here are starting to ask you to hold your license/registration/POI where they can read them. They aren’t taking anything back to the cruiser, because God only knows when you washed your dick beaters last. They’ll write down the info and walk back to the car, or they’ll just radio in at your window to make sure you’re “negative 27’s.”


----------



## CQB (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> I haven't been keeping up with the Aussies. How are ya'll doing over there?


No so bad, PM inbound.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 18, 2020)

Fucking beef mince man. Beef mince. Of all the things to get panic bought. And pasta and pasta sauce. I can make the assumption that bolognese will be the currency of the future.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

I'm in a weird mood.


----------



## CQB (Mar 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Fucking beef mince man. Beef mince. Of all the things to get panic bought. And pasta and pasta sauce. I can make the assumption that bolognese will be the currency of the future.


I’m a pesto man myself.


----------



## CQB (Mar 18, 2020)




----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 18, 2020)

The irony behind this is simple, China invented paper around 100 AD and are thought to be the first ones to use paper to whipe their butts.


I dont know if any of this is true #buttscience.....


----------



## compforce (Mar 18, 2020)

CQB said:


> View attachment 32598



Where?


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Did you guys hear on the news? The doctor who said images of YOUNG peoples lungs after contracting and surviving the COVID 19 virus are TERRIFYING. Permanent lung damage to all who survive. I foresee lower PT standards for our military survivors.



You think those are vape users?
Smoking or Vaping May Increase the Risk of a Severe Coronavirus Infection



lindy said:


> You guys still working 40-hour weeks?



I feel I need to charge the government for my time wasted constructing an email on my daily status. For my day job though, Lt. Gen Howell has us doing a lot of telework to reduce footprint in the office. We're still doing 40+ hours to support


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> You think those are vape users?
> Smoking or Vaping May Increase the Risk of a Severe Coronavirus Infection


Could be.



CQB said:


> View attachment 32598


Yep Natures own that is what I eat Thank you for the heads up. Where is this bread located?


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 18, 2020)

compforce said:


> Where?


Asking for a friend?

LL


----------



## Phoenix15 (Mar 18, 2020)

I work at a utility as a power trader and our director is having food stockpiled and beds delivered in case Phoenix goes "shelter in place." 

He says we'll have to be quarantined at the office, will move families into RVs in the parking lot if that's less stressful for us. Things are about to get weird.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Asking for a friend?
> 
> LL


A slightly shorter friend that hangs around with him a lot.



Phoenix15 said:


> I work at a utility as a power trader and our director is having food stockpiled and beds delivered in case Phoenix goes "shelter in place."
> 
> He says we'll have to be quarantined at the office, will move families into RVs in the parking lot if that's less stressful for us. Things are about to get weird.


Yep but weird is an understatement. Good luck man or woman or what have you..............................Genders are so confusing nowadays.


----------



## Phoenix15 (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Yep but weird is an understatement. Good luck man or woman or what have you..............................Genders are so confusing nowadays.



By weird I meant: a level of restriction most Americans cant even begin to comprehend


----------



## Jaknight (Mar 18, 2020)

CQB said:


> View attachment 32598


There’s Bread in that picture?

So no damn Coco Pebbles at Wal-Matt??!!!!  Now It’s personal China


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 18, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> So no damn Coco Pebbles at Wal-Matt??!!!!  Now It’s personal China




Coco Pebbles? Not Reeses Puffs? Or even the objectively superior Coco variant which is Krispies? 
I hate to break this to you, but when we all inevitably start fighting each other in the Thunderdome in a few months you're not gonna have a hard time.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

- sigh -


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240371160078000128


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 18, 2020)

Maybe they can be part of the 3 or 4 percenters...or whatever it's at these days. 🤞

In the meantime, anyone know any good spots to shop for bread?


----------



## Dame (Mar 18, 2020)

OMG! @Steve1839 it's you! 



Bypass said:


> I'm in a weird mood.
> 
> View attachment 32596


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 18, 2020)

Dame said:


> OMG! @Steve1839 it's you!


Pretty much sums up my week....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

Bypass said:


> Be careful out there Doc.
> 
> Off topic but I just thought of a way to get out of a speeding ticket. I haven't been pulled over in 25 years but here is the idea.
> 
> ...


This is easy, just mail it to him.



Phoenix15 said:


> I work at a utility as a power trader and our director is having food stockpiled and beds delivered in case Phoenix goes "shelter in place."
> 
> He says we'll have to be quarantined at the office, will move families into RVs in the parking lot if that's less stressful for us. Things are about to get weird.



So far we ok Fam.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If anyone needs any help/assistance with setting up a home office for working remote, send me a note.  I've had 'remote' jobs most of my career and will help as best I can with any technical, logistics or questions you might have.



Can you please help HP get their shit together with regards to NMCI?


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 18, 2020)

For those whose memories are shortened by age, booze, or willful denial, Axios has put together a nifty little timeline that I’m sure the CCP would like us to ignore. China is not the savior they want the world to believe they are.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> For those whose memories are shortened by age, booze, or willful denial, Axios has put together a nifty little timeline that I’m sure the CCP would like us to ignore. China is not the savior they want the world to believe they are.


This should get disseminated DoD-wide.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> - sigh -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240371160078000128



People are are stupid. This just shows how far we have fallen in intelligence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

Viper1 said:


> This should get disseminated DoD-wide.


If China had come forward just 3 weeks earlier, it is believed that there would have been 95% less people infected and the geographic spread would have been greatly reduced. 
Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton

I encourage all to read this article published by the Washington Times:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ly-allowed-coronavirus-spread-farther-faster/

There is an even longer and more in depth article put out by Wall Street Journal, but I know most do not have a subscription.  Give me a bit and I'll turn it into an PDF and post here.


----------



## AWP (Mar 18, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> God only knows when you washed your dick beaters last.





racing_kitty said:


> For those whose memories are shortened by age, booze, or willful denial, Axios has put together a nifty little timeline that I’m sure the CCP would like us to ignore. China is not the savior they want the world to believe they are.



My VP ladies and gentlemen. Free Kitty 2020. Not the leadership you need, but the leadership you deserve.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 18, 2020)

Tomorrow Major League Rugby will announce the cancellation of it's season.  I'm waiting on an email that tells me if I still have a job.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

I've made one roll of TP last all week.  Tomorrow my twin 16-year old boys come stay for the week...they seem to have contests on who can clog up the toilet the fastest.  I may have have to ration out the shit paper.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If China had come forward just 3 weeks earlier, it is believed that there would have been 95% less people infected and the geographic spread would have been greatly reduced.
> Early And Combined Interventions Crucial In Tackling Covid-19 Spread In China | University of Southampton
> 
> I encourage all to read this article published by the Washington Times:
> ...


Here is the WSJ article I was talking about.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 18, 2020)

I don't envy you. My ex used to hide TP under the guise that I didn't like the brand she bought, and therefore I couldn't have it. That was all and good until she started taking all my premium rolls.

I can't believe I'm actually talking about my marital TP debates on an open forum 🤯


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 18, 2020)

For those that might have been pushed out of their workspace. 



> How the Intelligence Community Can Work from Unclassified Facilities



Moving to the Unclassified


----------



## Bambi (Mar 18, 2020)

COVID-19 just got me a date, honestly I don’t really know how to explain this one but thanks China!


----------



## Bypass (Mar 18, 2020)

Bambi said:


> COVID-19 just got me a date, honestly I don’t really know how to explain this one but thanks China!


Grats!!! I know it's been a long time coming.


----------



## Dame (Mar 18, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I don't envy you. My ex used to hide TP under the guise that I didn't like the brand she bought, and therefore I couldn't have it. That was all and good until she started taking all my premium rolls.
> 
> I can't believe I'm actually talking about my marital TP debates on an open forum 🤯


If it helps, when I left him last, HH6 said, "I have 7 rolls of TP, 4 phone books, and an entire drawer of unmatched socks. I'm good."


----------



## Dame (Mar 18, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> For those that might have been pushed out of their workspace.
> 
> Moving to the Unclassified


First, I respect everything you do and your expertise. I will not presume to say that some jobs cannot be done outside the SAP/SCIF.

Second and however: The article sounds like it was written by someone who has not worked in a SCIF or the fucking Chinese. Again, not directed at you. But this is not the time to make those decisions or put those protocols in place. If the job is critical then the job must be done. If not, then not now.

Respect.


----------



## AWP (Mar 19, 2020)

If your job is in a SCIF, but you can do your job outside of a SCIF...

BWAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 19, 2020)

[





AWP said:


> If your job is in a SCIF, but you can do your job outside of a SCIF...
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHA!


I stopped reading.


----------



## medicchick (Mar 19, 2020)

Half the employees got laid off here...I started in January and was kept on (full time still) because they though I was doing better then people who have been here 10+ years.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I've made one roll of TP last all week.  Tomorrow my twin 16-year old boys come stay for the week...they seem to have contests on who can clog up the toilet the fastest.  I may have have to ration out the shit paper.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)

A few laughs to start your day. 
GOD Bless,
Gary


----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)




----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)




----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing at and sharing these MEMEs.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 19, 2020)

Make it stop.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 19, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial
> 
> Posted from a Dr. friend of mine I went to high school with.



Update: Bayer preps U.S. donation of malaria med chloroquine to help in COVID-19 fight: report

Chloroquine is being donated for a larger study to test its effectiveness.


----------



## CQB (Mar 19, 2020)

Interesting, 25% isn’t a lot but it’s a start. As for numbers worldwide, what is that as a percentage of population? A big figure sounds impressive but a percentage will tell the story.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 19, 2020)

I don't think this is the drug that will ultimately be the "cure", but I do think a mass produced and relatively inexpensive drug can be deployed quickly to help by bringing the numbers down and stabilizing the population is a great start. Plus if it shows it works as a blocker agaisnt contacting the virus we can start getting everyone back to work.


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> If your job is in a SCIF, but you can do your job outside of a SCIF...
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHA!



Snowden and Reality Winter don‘t understand.


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> For those that might have been pushed out of their workspace.
> 
> Moving to the Unclassified



Our SF-86s are already in “their” databases so just how much more do we want to give “them”?


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> For those that might have been pushed out of their workspace.
> 
> 
> 
> Moving to the Unclassified



So is everyone pulling out the old one-time pads?  Between that and the TP sales, I think this is a giant conspiracy to boost the pulp and paper industry.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 19, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (Mar 19, 2020)

One group apparently unaffected by all this are the spammers.  They're seemingly working overtime.  Everything from old school email spam to text to robocall.  I've noticed a serious uptick the past week or so.


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> First, I respect everything you do and your expertise. I will not presume to say that some jobs cannot be done outside the SAP/SCIF.
> 
> Second and however: The article sounds like it was written by someone who has not worked in a SCIF or the fucking Chinese. Again, not directed at you. But this is not the time to make those decisions or put those protocols in place. If the job is critical then the job must be done. If not, then not now.
> 
> Respect.



Comes to mandatory social distancing and reduced manning footprint. Since we have a pretty robust system in place already with rocketchat, AWS, gitlab, jira, and confluence, etc... My entire team is more tech enabled targeters and data scientists, so there is actually a good amount of work that can be done. A lot of code/scripts can just be accomplished in an unclass environment with no issues and it's the whole point of DevSecOps.


----------



## Dame (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Comes to mandatory social distancing and reduced manning footprint. Since we have a pretty robust system in place already with rocketchat, AWS, gitlab, jira, and confluence, etc... My entire team is more tech enabled targeters and data scientists, so there is actually a good amount of work that can be done. A lot of code/scripts can just be accomplished in an unclass environment with no issues and it's the whole point of DevSecOps.


How do you get the code back in the SCIF?


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> How do you get the code back in the SCIF?



That's what the DevSecOps pipeline is. Generally it's an approved one way diode, but doesn't really matter as long as versioning is within ATO/IA guidelines; depends on how Agile the team is.


----------



## Dame (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That's what the DevSecOps pipeline is. Generally it's an approved one way diode, but doesn't really matter as long as versioning is within ATO/IA guidelines; depends on how Agile the team is.


OK, might work for some. However, I still maintain this is not the time to make those decisions or put those protocols in place.


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> OK, might work for some. However, I still maintain this is not the time to make those decisions or put those protocols in place.



Those have been in place for a few years now. As far as the time, you should walk around the agencies. There are some funny memes with agency directors and the infinity gauntlet running around voluntold


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> There are some funny memes with agency directors and the infinity gauntlet running around *voluntold*



Best site EVER!!!!


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

Could go political or Kung Flu but trigger is flu and the comments are party agnostic.



> First came the panic buying of hand sanitizer. Then, people panic bought toilet paper. Now, food shelves are emptying and firearm and ammunition sales are through the roof.
> 
> Here at Omaha Outdoors, we’ve been inundated with *inquiries from out-of-state folks – many from California – asking if we can ship them a gun directly.* The answer is, of course, no. *Despite what politicians and many in popular media claim, you can’t buy a gun online and have it shipped to your house.*



A Lot of People Are Finding Out You Can’t Just Buy a Gun Online - Omaha Outdoors


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 19, 2020)

An interesting study.  I guess I'm fucked. 

China COVID-19 study: blood type O are more resistant, type A are more susceptible to infection


----------



## 0699 (Mar 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I've made one roll of TP last all week.  Tomorrow my twin 16-year old boys come stay for the week...they seem to have contests on who can clog up the toilet the fastest.  I may have have to ration out the shit paper.


You need to teach them the Marine method of wiping your hindparts.

1) Pull off one square of TP
2) Tear small hole in center of square
3) Put forefinger through hole in TP
4) Use finger to wipe butt
5) Use TP to clean finger


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 19, 2020)

hmm...



> The European Union is urging Netflix and other streaming platforms to stop showing video in high definition to prevent the internet from breaking under the strain of unprecedented usage due to the coronavirus pandemic.



Netflix urged to slow down streaming to stop the internet from breaking


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> hmm...
> 
> 
> 
> Netflix urged to slow down streaming to stop the internet from breaking


Fucking commie punk bitches want to force us into our houses, then take my Castlevania and JoJo?

There.
WILL
Be. 
BLOOD!!!!!

Fuck the Boogaloo, this veep candidate is pissed now! If they go after PornHub, the world will burn. A vote for Free Kitty 2020 guarantees chloroquine and unfettered streaming video for everyone!


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 19, 2020)

I sent this to my boss (she's actually great) this morning when she changed up something she had told me to do:


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 19, 2020)

A good read.  

COVID-19 reports | Faculty of Medicine | Imperial College London


----------



## Gordus (Mar 19, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 19, 2020)

I don't see the order online yet, but talking to some FL LEO friends, it looks like Florida LEAs will begin forcible removal of spring breakers from the beach.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't see the order online yet, but talking to some FL LEO friends, it looks like Florida LEAs will begin forcible removal of spring breakers from the beach.



Can the cops swim?  Cause I'd swim out about 100 yards and make them get me in a boat.  Make it entertaining.  You know, like the streakers in sports stadiums.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Can the cops swim?  Cause I'd swim out about 100 yards and make them get me in a boat.  Make it entertaining.  You know, like the streakers in sports stadiums.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't see the order online yet, but talking to some FL LEO friends, it looks like Florida LEAs will begin forcible removal of spring breakers from the beach.



I want that live feed. Drunk college kids running everywhere with cops chasing. Now that is a great Live PD episode.


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 19, 2020)

Really surprised they haven't closed the beaches yet, should've been done by now.


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't see the order online yet, but talking to some FL LEO friends, it looks like Florida LEAs will begin forcible removal of spring breakers from the beach.



I bet there will a very high ratio of hot drunk chicks in beach attire vs dudes “arrested”.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 19, 2020)

The experts have spoken.

Shaun of the Dead Gets a Coronavirus Update Thanks to Simon Pegg and Nick Frost


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 19, 2020)

According to Forbes, the FDA is approving chloroquine for “compassionate use.” Looks like the anti-malarial has shown promise in the lab against the Communist Government Disease, and may have prophylactic properties. Japanese firm Fujifilm has a medical arm, and they’ve seen promise with avigan. 

Guarantee the CCP finds a way to spin that against us.


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

Sometimes ya gotta laugh...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240642872598319104


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Guarantee the CCP finds a way to spin that against us.



Breaking “news” from the Washington Post...


----------



## Brill (Mar 19, 2020)

POTUS should relax rules for truckers or at least give then left lane priority on Interstates!



> Truckers don’t deal in fear. They have a job to get done. They get up, hop in the cab, and take to the road. Truckers always deliver, even when there’s a natural disaster or expanding crisis.
> 
> That’s because *America depends on them*. Families and businesses need food, fuel and life’s essentials. Hospitals need medicine and critical, life-saving supplies. *We all depend on truckers for the staples that enable our basic survival.*



Keep Calm and Keep On Trucking. | American Trucking Associations


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 19, 2020)

Total deaths in the U.S. from Covid-19 have moved past 200+ since the virus was first reported here in late Jan/early Feb.  That total will rise but, in keeping things in perspective, the morbid side of me got to thinking about how it compares to other "common" types of death in the U.S. 

Here's what I found (the article is from 2016, but I imagine still fairly accurate):

8 surprisingly common causes of death that sound like freak accidents

951 deaths = contact with power lawnmower

1,139 = falls involving ice skates, skis, roller skates, or skateboards

1,413 = fall from tree

1,842 = caught, crushed, jammed, or pinched in or between objects

2,167 = constipation (I know...don't ask me...)

10,206 = accidental suffocation and  strangulation in bed

10,386 = fall involving bed

So, as we spend more time sequestered in our homes, take care as you tuck yourself into bed tonight.  Life is dangerous.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 19, 2020)

^ BTW, before anyone brings it up, those numbers are over quite a few years (1999 - 2014), not annually.  Posted just for a bit of levity.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> If it helps, when I left him last, HH6 said, "I have 7 rolls of TP, 4 phone books, and an entire drawer of unmatched socks. I'm good."


and a few worn out t-shirts...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 19, 2020)

*Whole state of California on lockdown.*

*Gov. Gavin Newsom orders all Californians to stay at home*


----------



## ShamgarTheJudge (Mar 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *Whole state of California on lockdown.
> 
> Gov. Gavin Newsom orders all Californians to stay at home*



Rumor is LE and the NG are going to be apart of enforcing that order.  I’m so glad to live in the People’s Socialist Republic of California.  It’s the perfect place for a viral outbreak.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 19, 2020)

ShamgarTheJudge said:


> Rumor is LE and the NG are going to be apart of enforcing that order.  I’m so glad to live in the People’s Socialist Republic of California.  It’s the perfect place for a viral outbreak.



Do you have a source? That's quite a claim to make.


----------



## ShamgarTheJudge (Mar 19, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Do you have a source? That's quite a claim to make.


Forgive me, it’s pure conjecture at this point.  All I’ve heard is here:
California Gov. Gavin Newsom announces statewide 'stay at home' order

The LE/NG rumor comes from a coworker who has family in a few local agencies. It could be nothing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 19, 2020)

So, what if China be LYIN' BOUT their recovery?

China's coronavirus recovery is 'all fake,' whistleblowers and residents claim


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, what if China be LYIN' BOUT their recovery?
> 
> China's coronavirus recovery is 'all fake,' whistleblowers and residents claim



Of course they are. We are losing an Information Operations opportunity to the PRC. This is not the media’s fault; this responsibility lies with the government, DoD, and the public at large to raise the alarm.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, what if China be LYIN' BOUT their recovery?
> 
> China's coronavirus recovery is 'all fake,' whistleblowers and residents claim


One, it’s still the fault of the US, as per the CCP. Two, this will be down the memory hole soon enough, because the CCP does not make mistakes, falsify documents, or cover up pandemic outbreaks.


----------



## AWP (Mar 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, what if China be LYIN' BOUT their recovery?
> 
> China's coronavirus recovery is 'all fake,' whistleblowers and residents claim



Considering that China's numbers for the infected have sat aroun 80k for over a month...yeah, not buying their shyte.

Good to see a US state enact martial law.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> Good to see a US state enact martial law.


What causing me some angst is the lack of communication about and end game.  All we are getting are random dates:

- School's out til Apr 1
- CA on state lockdown until Apr 13
- Etc Etc Etc

Has anything been communicated in regards to what signifies the "all clear"?   I'm having a really hard time with the while duck-and-cover schtick and not having anything on the horizon to say when we get to X, then we can get back to work.

United States Coronavirus: 14,339 Cases and 217 Deaths - Worldometer


----------



## ShamgarTheJudge (Mar 20, 2020)

I’ll try and keep my eyes and ears open.  I’m not sure how the State is going to enforce such an order, what the exemptions are (folks in my field of work are considered essential services, though my department isn’t what I would call essential), and what “the end” will actually look like.  

It’s really confusing with sources spread across a myriad of opinions on how widespread and severe this situation is.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What causing me some angst is the lack of communication about and end game.  All we are getting are random dates:
> 
> - School's out til Apr 1
> - CA on state lockdown until Apr 13
> ...


 
It’s partially based off incubation periods (two weeks) and recovery times (two-three weeks). You can’t predict the end of this, and it is a best guess scenario, similar those displaced by war.

Some are calling it a “black swan” event which I disagree with. We know virus and disease pandemics happen. Pandemics are not random events. We know they happen; what is within our control is steps we take to limit the impact. This current situation is correlated with a lack of responsiveness and not being postured to respond.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

Viper1 said:


> It’s partially based off incubation periods (two weeks) and recovery times (two-three weeks). You can’t predict the end of this, and it is a best guess scenario, similar those displaced by war.
> 
> Some are calling it a “black swan” event which I disagree with. We know virus and disease pandemics happen. Pandemics are not random events. We know they happen; what is within our control is steps we take to limit the impact. This current situation is correlated with a lack of responsiveness and not being postured to respond.


Thank you for that response, sir.  
You are among a handful of members here whose opinions I've learned to genuinely value.


----------



## CQB (Mar 20, 2020)

It looks to be six to eight months here.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

Every morning I wake up thinking, “well that was a fucked up dream”.


----------



## AWP (Mar 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Every morning I wake up thinking, “well that was a fucked up dream”.



Whew...I'm glad I'm not the only one who has dreams of dressing like a nun to have sex with a midget while an 8 ft. long purple salamander masturbates in the corner.

Sharing makes the world a little less lonely.


----------



## Brill (Mar 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Every morning I wake up thinking, “well that was a fucked up dream”.



So you started on mefloquine early?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

lindy said:


> So you started on mefloquine early?


Well played!


----------



## Brill (Mar 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> Whew...I'm glad I'm not the only one who has dreams of dressing like a nun to have sex with a midget while an 8 ft. long purple salamander masturbates in the corner.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> It looks to be six to eight months here.



It's starting to look that way here.  Some provinces, like Alberta, cancelled the school year outright and are going to plan for a September start.  Federally they were slow to implement anything and now there seems to be more coordination between the different levels of government.  But they are still letting decisions be made at the province/territory level, as some don't have confirmed cases yet.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 20, 2020)

They've got the medics on JBLM screening people for it. 
From what my brother has told me, they've screened just about 2000 people in the past 4 days, tested half of those, and gotten 15 positives so far.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 20, 2020)

I've seen/heard a bunch of stories of schools/businesses being straight dicks in this. I'm talking keeping schools open until teachers test positive, or not laying off/firing workers and just telling them "no work for 8 weeks" so they can't get unemployment.

Figured I'd share what my university is doing in this.
Right now, the only employees working on campus are essential staff; that's the maintenance crew, health/wellness, upper level administrators, and my cooks. To not have so many people in building, they are scheduling us for 3 days, admin pay two, and then two days off.

As for students; all of our students in the dorms will be out Monday. For those who can't go home(out of state/international) the school is paying to put them up in the student apartments near campus.
Furthermore, the school is has decided to still pay all student staff. We're figuring out each student employee's average hours, and they be paid that biweekly until the end of the semester.

I'm often a bit pessimistic about how much large universities care about staff and students, but this is a huge show of good faith.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2020)

Got the emails today from uni, we are shutting down as of next week and in that time the staff will all be redesigning the coursework to start “technology-enabled learning and teaching”...so we are going online. Should be going again by the 30th March. It sucks, but they are just doing what they feel to be right by the students as well as complying with the new government restrictions. 

In about 10 days we have gone from just over 100 cases and now sitting at 854 last count. This thing has really taken off here. 

Sincere thanks to all our healthcare workers here and everyone here who is facing the dangers of this every day.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 20, 2020)

To add - some of big banks today announced that they are letting people defer their mortgage repayments for up to 6 months if their employment gets affected by this.

This will be a massive load off a lot of people’s shoulders.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> To add - some of big banks today announced that they are letting people defer their mortgage repayments for up to 6 months if their employment gets affected by this.
> 
> This will be a massive load off a lot of people’s shoulders.


Before anyone gets too excited.  Scarecrow is in Australia.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 20, 2020)

Study: 17.9% Of People With COVID-19 Coronavirus Had No Symptoms

Interesting that 15 - 20% may be asymptomatic.  It has been suspected kids may generally be asymptomatic but this implies a portion of adults are as well. To me this speaks to two important facts:

1.  Controlling spread may be very difficult, especially if you feel OK. 

2.  Lends additional credence to the number of under reporting of cases

3. It can be presumed that serious cases would've resulted in hospitalizations. With that in mind, this may actually be good news from the perspective that it reinforces the belief that 90+% cases are mild; so mild that you may not know you even have the virus (which is a double edge sword, as noted in #1 above).


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 20, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> To add - some of big banks today announced that they are letting people defer their mortgage repayments for up to 6 months if their employment gets affected by this.
> 
> This will be a massive load off a lot of people’s shoulders.


Those big, bad banks...😉

Many are deferring all kinds of debt for up to 90 days for those facing hardship.  They'll still accrue interest but may defer payments for a period of time. 

This is a good thing.


----------



## EqualReaction (Mar 20, 2020)

I went to a recruiter on Wednesday and they got shut down mid conversation due to COVID-19.  All of our schools in my area (TN) are shut down til April, but they are talks of shutting down for the rest of the year. Hope y'all are staying healthy, and hopefully some type of antiviral therapy comes out soon.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2020)

CQB said:


> It looks to be six to eight months here.


And yet they're gonna play Australia only Super Rugby+Western Force matches...


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 20, 2020)

File this in “shit I’d never thought I’d type...”

Coronavirus Makes Taliban Realize They Need Heath Workers Alive Not Dead

I shit you not, this is the actual headline on Reuters.


----------



## Dame (Mar 20, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> File this in “shit I’d never thought I’d type...”
> Coronavirus Makes Taliban Realize They Need Heath Workers Alive Not Dead
> I shit you not, this is the actual headline on Reuters.


This is rich:

_“The Islamic Emirate via its Health Commission assures all international health organizations and WHO of its *readiness to cooperate and coordinate* with them in combating the coronavirus,” said Suhail Shaheen, the Taliban’s spokesman, on Twitter, using the term the group uses to describe itself. _

Yeah, until they aren't.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 20, 2020)

Mr. Open Border's closes the border finally. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-covid19-coronavirus-medical-equipment-1.5504149


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 20, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Study: 17.9% Of People With COVID-19 Coronavirus Had No Symptoms
> 
> Interesting that 15 - 20% may be asymptomatic.  It has been suspected kids may generally be asymptomatic but this implies a portion of adults are as well. To me this speaks to two important facts:
> 
> ...



Wonder if there is a strong correlation with blood type


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 20, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Wonder if there is a strong correlation with blood type



It's looking like a possibility.  Apparently Type A is more susceptible.

Some Blood Types May Be Slightly More Susceptible to COVID-19, Paper Suggests


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

EqualReaction said:


> All of our schools in my area (TN) are shut down til April, but they are talks of shutting down for the rest of the year


Next week our school district is handing out Chromebooks to the 'in need' kids and they are going e-learning beginning in April


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What causing me some angst is the lack of communication about and end game.  All we are getting are random dates:
> 
> - School's out til Apr 1
> - CA on state lockdown until Apr 13
> ...



Data we are tracking: number of cases/day (positive tests), number of admits/day.  We'll know when we peak, and when we'll fall.  There is likely to be "False peaks" where it looks like it's dropping and goes back up a bit.  Once it starts to fall, add 3 weeks.  No one in their right mind is going to place a date, not at least (my SWAG) the beginning of April.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 20, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Study: 17.9% Of People With COVID-19 Coronavirus Had No Symptoms
> 
> Interesting that 15 - 20% may be asymptomatic.  It has been suspected kids may generally be asymptomatic but this implies a portion of adults are as well. To me this speaks to two important facts:
> 
> ...



Also, there is a GI component.  People can transmit it via GI, and have only GI symptoms.  Because this is in the minority, they are a low-priority for screening.

Also there is a growing proportion of younger adults not only becoming symptomatic, but very sick.  That doesn't bear out in a lot of data from overseas.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Next week our school district is handing out Chromebooks to the 'in need' kids and they are going e-learning beginning in April


So, this may be a separate topic or it may be here...

I don't know the specifics of the decision above and it's somewhat irrelevant, however,  it has me thinking more broadly:  we need to pump the breaks a bit on all the handouts/relief/whatever you want to term it.  These aren't free and there are economic repercussions to all these decisions.  There needs to be some actual thought and planning here, particularly long term.  

We're really only about a month deep into this from a "crisis" perspective in the U.S.   The immediate situation with the virus will pass but then we'll be left holding the bill for many things that are the result of many early, knee jerk reactions. Ex. issuing $1K - $3K checks from the government.  What problem does that really solve? If anything, it delays the inevitable for some.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Also, there is a GI component.  People can transmit it via GI, and have only GI symptoms.  Because this is in the minority, they are a low-priority for screening.
> 
> Also there is a growing proportion of younger adults not only becoming symptomatic, but very sick.  That doesn't bear out in a lot of data from overseas.


It doesn't bear out in the reporting of U.S. data either.  Current active cases total ~16K, nearly 100% are mild condition, only 64 currently in serious condition.

Interesting about GI angle as I haven't seen that reported on CDC site or elsewhere.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 20, 2020)

This is a great thing and hopefully they can boost production to get them out. 

Ottawa company hopes to have hand-held COVID-19 testing device within weeks


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2020)

*Prepping for COVID*?

"People do a lot of weird stuff on deployment. After about four months in Syria, the novel I was writing sort of ended up in a corner that I couldn’t see a way out of. So I said to hell with it and decided to start another project as a palate cleanser. The idea I settled on was: What would it be like to experience the zombie apocalypse from the perspective of someone who was genuinely, properly prepared?"


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 20, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> It doesn't bear out in the reporting of U.S. data either.  Current active cases total ~16K, nearly 100% are mild condition, only 64 currently in serious condition.
> 
> Interesting about GI angle as I haven't seen that reported on CDC site or elsewhere.



Potential GI manifestation, transmission of coronavirus

40% of hospitalizations are people between 20-54 (even though is still remains the > 60 crowd with highest likelihood of dying).  Additionally, post and follow-up CT scans are showing significant lung damage in young people.

Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Potential GI manifestation, transmission of coronavirus
> 
> 40% of hospitalizations are people between 20-54 (even though is still remains the > 60 crowd with highest likelihood of dying).  Additionally, post and follow-up CT scans are showing significant lung damage in young people.
> 
> Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19


The potential second and third order effects on survivors won’t be truly known until ten, twenty, thirty years from now. 

Prayers to @Devildoc, @Muppet, and all medical professionals at the forefront of treatment and response. 

JBLM and Madigan Facebook pages are the main sources for info up here. LTG George, I Corps CG responded with swift guidance.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 20, 2020)

Viper1 said:


> The potential second and third order effects on survivors won’t be truly known until ten, twenty, thirty years from now.
> 
> Prayers to @Devildoc, @Muppet, and all medical professionals at the forefront of treatment and response.
> 
> JBLM and Madigan Facebook pages are the main sources for info up here. LTG George, I Corps CG responded with swift guidance.



Thanks brother. It's disconcerting and scary....


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Potential GI manifestation, transmission of coronavirus
> 
> 40% of hospitalizations are people between 20-54 (even though is still remains the > 60 crowd with highest likelihood of dying).  Additionally, post and follow-up CT scans are showing significant lung damage in young people.
> 
> Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19


Would be very interesting to see a listing of comorbidities or some other analysis of those patients in U.S. where their condition was serious or resulted death.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Potential GI manifestation, transmission of coronavirus
> 
> 40% of hospitalizations are people between 20-54 (even though is still remains the > 60 crowd with highest likelihood of dying).  Additionally, post and follow-up CT scans are showing significant lung damage in young people.
> 
> Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19


So we're about to have a bunch of Corona Marys eh.


----------



## CQB (Mar 20, 2020)

The AFL (Aussie Rules) & NRL (Rugby League) are still going ahead in empty stadiums. Not sure how that’ll pan out as clubs depend on gate takings.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2020)

*It reached West Point now too.*


"The Academy's Superintendent, Lieutenant General Darryl Williams, explained in a letter to the West Point community that cadets and faculty will return at a time to be determined.  There is not yet a decision on how the COVID19 situation will affect the graduation of West Point's Class of 2020."


----------



## CQB (Mar 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> This is rich:
> 
> _“The Islamic Emirate via its Health Commission assures all international health organizations and WHO of its *readiness to cooperate and coordinate* with them in combating the coronavirus,” said Suhail Shaheen, the Taliban’s spokesman, on Twitter, using the term the group uses to describe itself. _
> 
> Yeah, until they aren't.


I was a doctor, honest!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> *It reached West Point now too.*
> 
> 
> "The Academy's Superintendent, Lieutenant General Darryl Williams, explained in a letter to the West Point community that cadets and faculty will return at a time to be determined.  There is not yet a decision on how the COVID19 situation will affect the graduation of West Point's Class of 2020."


VMI has closed the post completely.  The last time a class didn't graduate it was 1864...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 20, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> *It reached West Point now too.*
> 
> 
> "The Academy's Superintendent, Lieutenant General Darryl Williams, explained in a letter to the West Point community that cadets and faculty will return at a time to be determined.  There is not yet a decision on how the COVID19 situation will affect the graduation of West Point's Class of 2020."



There was a suspected case 3 weeks ago at RMC. 

4 Royal Military College cadets in precautionary COVID-19 isolation at CFB Kingston



ThunderHorse said:


> VMI has closed the post completely.  The last time a class didn't graduate it was 1864...



RMC has done the same.  Although civilian staff have their union bringing up that cadets are still mass fed in the mess hall.  Unless everyone started being fed box lunches, I'm not sure how they could feed so many efficiently and safely.

National Defence union worried over RMC’s continued operations amid coronavirus pandemic


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 20, 2020)

Currently have 3 of my employees that are plausible for coronavirus. Waiting on test results to come back in the next 5-7 days, so this coming week is looking to get interesting. 

One thing I can say is that McDonalds is almost always on the forefront of food safety and sanitation practices, so it'll be interesting to see the follow up actions if it turns out they are infected.


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 20, 2020)

Well that was fast, store closing early and _Deep _clean and sanitation to occur effective immediately. Gonna be a long night.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 20, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Would be very interesting to see a listing of comorbidities or some other analysis of those patients in U.S. where their condition was serious or resulted death.



Off my head:
-Heart problems such as MI, CHF and so on
-Resp problems such as COPD, asthma, pneumonia, bronchitis
-Diabetics, morbidly obese, sepsis, immunocompromised 
-Age, older but, many age ranges are now known

That's off my head....
-Age


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Off my head:
> -Heart problems such as MI, CHF and so on
> -Resp problems such as COPD, asthma, pneumonia, bronchitis
> -Diabetics, morbidly obese, sepsis, immunocompromised
> ...



TMZ posted this article about a dude who had gone to Disneyworld died of COVID-19.  Sucks for him and his family.  But like with many of the mortal cases, he had other issues.  Listed at the bottom of the article: testicular cancer survivor, asthmatic, and history of bronchitis.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 20, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Well that was fast, store closing early and _Deep _clean and sanitation to occur effective immediately. Gonna be a long night.


You guys going to go “drivethru” only for the duration?


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 20, 2020)

Bypass said:


> So gun sales are up 600 percent including ammunition. So gun check, toilet paper check, water check.



The people asking why you have guns are buying guns, LOL and scary at the same time.



RackMaster said:


> This is not good.
> 
> China threatens to restrict critical drug exports to U.S.



Fucks them in the ass long term.  We'll have to buy via 3rd Party, (costs more) but in the end production WILL shift from China , and their economy will suffer.



LibraryLady said:


> But, but, but... Their drugs were cheaper than keeping the manufacturing in the States!
> 
> US businesses - you are now learning first hand the concept of consequences. How do you like your brazillion dollars now?
> 
> LL



Yep, have a friend who works for Apple, he patiently explaned cost benefit vs oportunity and I asked how they make money not selling products.  An old say, don't put all your eggs in one basket.




Bypass said:


> We should have never been in a position of dependence in the first place. Some hard lessons are going to be learned from this pandemic.





Ooh-Rah said:


> I've made one roll of TP last all week.  Tomorrow my twin 16-year old boys come stay for the week...they seem to have contests on who can clog up the toilet the fastest.  I may have have to ration out the shit paper.



Buy a couple of MRE's and give them the TP, tell them to learn how to wipe themselves with it.



lindy said:


> Could go political or Kung Flu but trigger is flu and the comments are party agnostic.
> 
> 
> 
> A Lot of People Are Finding Out You Can’t Just Buy a Gun Online - Omaha Outdoors



But, but, but Gunshow loophole...



RackMaster said:


> An interesting study.  I guess I'm fucked.
> 
> China COVID-19 study: blood type O are more resistant, type A are more susceptible to infection


Sucks to be me.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 20, 2020)

ShamgarTheJudge said:


> Rumor is LE and the NG are going to be apart of enforcing that order.  I’m so glad to live in the People’s Socialist Republic of California.  It’s the perfect place for a viral outbreak.





Viper1 said:


> Of course they are. We are losing an Information Operations opportunity to the PRC. This is not the media’s fault; this responsibility lies with the government, DoD, and the public at large to raise the alarm.



The media is gladly repeating the CCP position, I wish they'd judt stick with western medical experts until the crises lessons.
CCP owns some of everything, so I suspect the media is doing what a major stockholder (China) is telling them to say/do.



Ooh-Rah said:


> What causing me some angst is the lack of communication about and end game.  All we are getting are random dates:
> 
> - School's out til Apr 1
> - CA on state lockdown until Apr 13
> ...



This is causing panic and a run on various  supplies.



racing_kitty said:


> File this in “shit I’d never thought I’d type...”
> 
> Coronavirus Makes Taliban Realize They Need Heath Workers Alive Not Dead
> 
> I shit you not, this is the actual headline on Reuters.



And ISIS is telling it's folks not to go to Europe, LOL.
Aloha snack bar y'all.



Marauder06 said:


> *Prepping for COVID*?
> 
> "People do a lot of weird stuff on deployment. After about four months in Syria, the novel I was writing sort of ended up in a corner that I couldn’t see a way out of. So I said to hell with it and decided to start another project as a palate cleanser. The idea I settled on was: What would it be like to experience the zombie apocalypse from the perspective of someone who was genuinely, properly prepared?"


Is novel another name for case study?



Marauder06 said:


> *It reached West Point now too.*
> 
> 
> "The Academy's Superintendent, Lieutenant General Darryl Williams, explained in a letter to the West Point community that cadets and faculty will return at a time to be determined.  There is not yet a decision on how the COVID19 situation will affect the graduation of West Point's Class of 2020."



AF BMT is now 10 weeks long, they spend the first two weeks in quarentine, I can't imagine how that is going (co-ed barracks and horny teen agers.)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 21, 2020)

For whatever reason, the AFL and NRL are going to be the only live sports in the World for a hot minute.  Australia is spinning up a professional Domestic competition that will run 10 weeks with their 4 Super Rugby teams and the Western Force.  Supposedly New Zealand will do the same. 

Talk about Flattening the curve among the peasants, but keeping them entertained.


----------



## AWP (Mar 21, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> And ISIS is telling it's folks not to go to Europe, LOL.
> Aloha snack bar y'all.



You mean you can't "insh'allah" your way out of CV-19? Strange...


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> You guys going to go “drivethru” only for the duration?



We had already switched to DT only about 3 weeks ago, before that it was dispensing cups, straws, essentially everything minus filling the customer cups themselves. We had even gotten to where we refused filling any thermoses or refilling coffee. We would provide a new cup and lid.

Interestingly enough even switching to DT only our sales haven't taken that much of a hit relative to everything that's going on. TTM we were cruising at a 25% increase, now with switching to DT only we're currently only at a 17% increase as of this month. 

So while we've taken a hit, it's been relatively marginal. Guess people bought all the toilet paper but forgot to get groceries.


----------



## AWP (Mar 21, 2020)

"Oh boy! Deployment's almost over!"

Slow down...

U.S. Central Command Statement on Quarantine procedures into its Area



> TAMPA, Fla., March 20, 2020 —
> U.S. Central Command has ordered a stop movement of all forces deploying to the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility to either U.S. commands or U.S.-led coalitions and initiated the requirement for a 14-day quarantine at home station prior to deployment. U.S. Central Command will work with U.S. Transportation Command to ensure that deploying forces will also be quarantined in route to their final destination.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## RustyShackleford (Mar 21, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Thanks brother. It's disconcerting and scary....



I’ve been discussing this aspect of it at work with the other sup and some of the crew.  We get overly exposed to everything out there then go home to our families who are supposed to “social distance” themselves to slow the spread.


----------



## BuckysBadger24 (Mar 21, 2020)

I work at Saint Gobain in their Life Sciences branch.  The room I work in makes glands, which create a safe barrier for liquid to pass through IV's.  They're talking about a contingency if things go on complete lockdown of having us, another room that makes IV tubing, and the room that makes our material living at the company for a minimum of 2 weeks as it's been determined that we cannot shut down under any circumstances, due to the large increase in demand for these parts.  The rest of the plant, which mostly makes parts for elective surgery, would be shut down.

I didn't think that would ever be a possibility when I heard it, but with each passing day I'm no longer so sure.  Monday should be interesting.  Crazy times these are.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 21, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> View attachment 32650


Jokes on us after all these years...

Need a job amid coronavirus crisis? Walmart announces plan to add 150,000 employees to meet 'demand in our stores'


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 21, 2020)

BuckysBadger24 said:


> I didn't think that would ever be a possibility


A phrase I may never utter again.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 21, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> We had already switched to DT only about 3 weeks ago, before that it was dispensing cups, straws, essentially everything minus filling the customer cups themselves. We had even gotten to where we refused filling any thermoses or refilling coffee. We would provide a new cup and lid.
> 
> Interestingly enough even switching to DT only our sales haven't taken that much of a hit relative to everything that's going on. TTM we were cruising at a 25% increase, now with switching to DT only we're currently only at a 17% increase as of this month.
> 
> So while we've taken a hit, it's been relatively marginal. Guess people bought all the toilet paper but forgot to get groceries.


They didn’t “forget” groceries, so much as they just don’t want to cook all the stuff they’ve got just yet. Not all of them went in with a list, some freaked out and grabbed random shit that’s just going to sit and rot. Others got fucked out of regular grocery shopping, thanks to the zombie hoarder lemming folks.

My restaurant was forced into a TO only mode of operations Wednesday at 1700L. With a bar and seating for almost 600 sitting idle, our sales are down, naturally. However, we are seeing steady business through third party delivery, curbside service, as well as online and call-in orders.

I don’t know about where you’re at, but there’s actually a movement here among the non-service industry folk to patronize local restaurants via takeout to help keep them afloat. Your location could be a beneficiary of a similar grass roots effort.

I’m just glad to hear you’re not losing income, or at least not substantially.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> They didn’t “forget” groceries, so much as they just don’t want to cook all the stuff they’ve got just yet. Not all of them went in with a list, some freaked out and grabbed random shit that’s just going to sit and rot. Others got fucked out of regular grocery shopping, thanks to the zombie hoarder lemming folks.
> 
> My restaurant was forced into a TO only mode of operations Wednesday at 1700L. With a bar and seating for almost 600 sitting idle, our sales are down, naturally. However, we are seeing steady business through third party delivery, curbside service, as well as online and call-in orders.
> 
> ...



A lot of our local restaurants are doing very similar things.  One has been making free meals for the elderly and disabled, offering pickup and delivery. Wednesday they made 1500 and were planning on making more as long as they can. Excess produce is then packaged up and sold in store at a low cost, limiting amount of customers in the store and making a priority to those getting the free meals.


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 21, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> They didn’t “forget” groceries, so much as they just don’t want to cook all the stuff they’ve got just yet. Not all of them went in with a list, some freaked out and grabbed random shit that’s just going to sit and rot. Others got fucked out of regular grocery shopping, thanks to the zombie hoarder lemming folks.
> 
> My restaurant was forced into a TO only mode of operations Wednesday at 1700L. With a bar and seating for almost 600 sitting idle, our sales are down, naturally. However, we are seeing steady business through third party delivery, curbside service, as well as online and call-in orders.
> 
> ...




I was speaking in jest about the forgetting their groceries, alot of the people in our area are ordering what would be considered 'dinner orders' during lunch time. Most likely for kids at home and families that are prevented from going to work.

Currently our CO-OP is looking at providing meals for kids that are on the school lunch program or other community alternatives to help support the area. I don't imagine our sales drying up to the point where we would temporarily close, largely to the low cost to eat, but I'd imagine if we reach that point the world is in a much worse place than it is right now. 

Has your municipality enacted anything for businesses? Here there's been talk of 'grace periods' for either utilities or land payments to the city to ease cost of operations. 

But it's just talk at this time.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## Bypass (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 21, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Whole Post


I missed the sarcasm there, honestly. I’d miss a dump truck coming at my face without enough coffee in the mornings.

I don’t know about Alabama Power, but I know the city water has suspended disconnections at this time.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

Canadian ingenuity.  

Hospital turns its one ventilator into nine with some DIY mechanics


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 21, 2020)

Question related to an article I'm going to write:  what do you see as the US military's role in the corona crisis?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Question related to an article I'm going to write:  what do you see as the US military's role in the corona crisis?


Continue killing extremists where we find them, as well as continuing to serve as a deterrent to other countries that may become overly ambitious by perceived weakness.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 21, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Continue killing extremists where we find them, as well as continuing to serve as a deterrent to other countries that may become overly ambitious by perceived weakness.



So no domestic utilization at this time?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> So no domestic utilization at this time?


No.

It's not really an issue that calls for a military solution.  Doing so would be yet another distraction from the actual purpose of our military.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 21, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Question related to an article I'm going to write:  what do you see as the US military's role in the corona crisis?


Remaining calm and remaining ready.

It will be a step in the wrong direction if NG is activated to deal with social order, unless it is medical units for triage.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 21, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> No.
> 
> It's not really an issue that calls for a military solution.  Doing so would be yet another distraction from the actual purpose of our military.



Devil's advocate, that would be a hard u-turn from our traditional use of the military in disaster response. Not just the national guard which has it built into a mission, but we have deployed the Comfort and the Mercy in many disasters, we routinely activate reservists with critical skill sets to deploy within the country, we routinely support and beef up civilian infrastructure.

I am absolutely open to the conversation on whether or not we should as opposed to why we have done it.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Devil's advocate, that would be a hard u-turn from our traditional use of the military in disaster response. Not just the national guard which has it built into a mission, but we have deployed the Comfort and the Mercy in many disasters, we routinely activate reservists with critical skill sets to deploy within the country, we routinely support and beef up civilian infrastructure.
> 
> I am absolutely open to the conversation on whether or not we should as opposed to why we have done it.


At this point, there really isn't a DR mission:
1.  We don't need supplies distributed en mass; probably just the opposite actually
2.  There is no civil unrest.  
3.  The treatment for most does not require hospitalization, it's go home, isolate, and let it take it's course.  So, with 70ish serious cases nationwide, hospital beds/hospitalization is not a pressing issue either.

Generally speaking, a lot of people want to help.  But, at least for now, I see no real need for even NG assistance.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 21, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> At this point, there really isn't a DR mission:
> 1.  We don't need supplies distributed en mass; probably just the opposite actually
> 2.  There is no civil unrest.
> 3.  The treatment for most does not require hospitalization, it's go home, isolate, and let it take it's course.  So, with 70ish serious cases nationwide, hospital beds/hospitalization is not a pressing issue either.
> ...



At this time I agree with you. But I think it is a button that should probably get pushed sooner rather than later. If it got pushed later we're right back into the condition of being behind the ball and never in front of it, kind of like we are now. 

I don't have an issue with starting the mobilization of some assets, like the Comfort and Mercy. Those things don't get spun up in a day.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

An interesting perspective from a doctor in Vancouver. 



> A letter from my husband.
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> ...


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 21, 2020)

It could be worse.....THE COVID could be a LEG....


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

Canada is looking at 8 months of social isolation. 

COVID-19 NEWS: Italy death toll spikes 793 in single day, Canadian cases rise to 1,099 and social isolation to last 8 months?


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 21, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> It could be worse.....THE COVID could be a LEG....
> 
> View attachment 32661



So you know Ranger Up is here in my Fair City, actually probably about seven or eight miles from where I live. So if I know that he comes into the ER with symptoms, he just might have to get triage last.  JK....


----------



## pardus (Mar 21, 2020)

So I work in the ER of a hospital (350 ish beds) in downstate NY, we have two ER staff members test positive so far, several others awaiting results. There were as of yesterday, 5 covid pt's admitted, with one floor dedicated to the confirmed and suspected cases. We are having a serious issue with lack of supplies, namely face masks/N95s, and cleaning products. he hospital is opening an outside tent to do a pre-triage screening with instant covid swabbing, I'm currently slotted to be one of the two person team in the tent.
I'm also a medical squad leader in the National Guard. The state has asked my unit 2 or 3 times already for medical volunteers to assist. Those that went have been aiding with swab stations and some clean up operations as far as I'm aware.
The virus is not supposed to peak here for another 45 days. I'm fairly certain that I'll be forcibly called up at sometime in the next 6 weeks or so.
The public is panicking, stripping supermarket shelves clean of paper products and perishable food. still plenty of canned food, rice and pasta on the shelves 
This whole "crisis" is really pissing me off, I hate people more now than I ever had and I hated pretty hard already. Donning and doffing gowns, double gloves, mask and face shields 20 times a day, then trying to take blood, do ekgs, patient care under that shit is a fucking pain in the arse!
Covid 19 is noting that I'm concerned about, at all. In fact I would like to contract it sooner rather than later. I'm doing everything I can to follow the rules regarding PPE etc... at work and I don't want to be responsible for giving it to an elderly/sick person, but as a healthy "young" person my risk is so small that I'm in the slightest worried about it.
The media has blown this BS virus all out of proportion IMO. Yes it's highly contagious, but so what? Our populations need to be exposed (hopefully via vaccine) in order to not allow this to be truly deadly when it mutates, which it is/will.

"COVID-19, Total cases: 15,219. Total deaths: 201"

"Influenza. CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 38 million flu illnesses, 390,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths from flu."

This is merely the start of the first wave of this disease, I want some antibodies on board ASAP so when the next wave of mutated COVID comes knocking on the door I'll be locked and loaded ready to go. I'm not holding my breath for a vaccine.

FYI, One of the coworkers I mentioned earlier who tested positive has a new born child, his wife is also positive for the disease, they were told by their doctors to continue breast feeding in order to give the baby some immunity.  

COVID-19 is not going to go away, EVER. get used to it, you're going to get it if you haven't already. 

I also dream of the day the human population is less than 1 billion people so there's that too.


----------



## Brill (Mar 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canada is looking at 8 months of social isolation.



Isn't that called “winter”?


----------



## pardus (Mar 21, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> It could be worse.....THE COVID could be a LEG....
> 
> View attachment 32661



Except that it's NOT airborne.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 21, 2020)

@pardus , a couple things: First, yeah, I hate people too. I just took my two sons to work, and there's been no change in the amount of volume or traffic that I've seen before we were asked to socially distance and isolate. The shopping centers are just as full, the roads are just as full, and the grocery stores? You got to be kidding me.

Second, 200 deaths out of 15,000 is still exponentially high than what we see with the flu. And we are literally hours into this, in the big scheme of things.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> At this time I agree with you. But I think it is a button that should probably get pushed sooner rather than later. If it got pushed later we're right back into the condition of being behind the ball and never in front of it, kind of like we are now.
> 
> I don't have an issue with starting the mobilization of some assets, like the Comfort and Mercy. Those things don't get spun up in a day.


Agree, they aren't spun up in a day. Response should be a focal point for a number of units during drill weekends and AT.  But other than that, no immediate action.

As a general statement, the NG has a high percentage of first responders; haven't seen recent numbers but recall seeing it as high as 40% for some.  So, use of the NG has to be carefully thought through, especially if it will be extended use. The challenge is they will draw heavily from the same first responder/healthcare worker pool which potentially is already taxed; law of unintended consequences.   
It's just a different scenario than a typical DR.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

lindy said:


> Isn't that called “winter”?



Except for the most part winter's done or will be done in another month or so.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)

The WH has finally pushed guidance on dealing with contractor support. Posting as many on here are impacted. 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conte...9wPrlz--T0R9GOUhH3aXHCx14E_5Lb144Kt9xkYN4QBUE


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

You're welcome China. 

China’s imported coronavirus cases soar as students, expats flock home


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canadian ingenuity.
> 
> Hospital turns its one ventilator into nine with some DIY mechanics


Shared this with a doc friend who was skeptical and responded with, "Tell your famiy, if a doctor ever comes to them and asks that you'll be put on a vent with three other people they should vote for the three other people dying".  
🤣


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)

Welp, was just notified via an all hands text an employee in my office has tested positive for COVID-19. They won't say who, which concerns me as to whether or not I had close contact with them.


----------



## Brill (Mar 21, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Welp, was just notified via all hands an employee in my office has tested positive for COVID-19. They won't say who, which concerns me as to whether or not I had close contact with them.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)

I mentioned elsewhere that I don't even have computer access yet. Because of this, the command wouldn't let me work from home because what could I do? I'll tell you, I could not be around a building with over 1,000 people in it potentially contracting this virus.

ETA: This person is in my office, not just the building.


----------



## Brill (Mar 21, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I mentioned elsewhere that I don't even have computer access yet. Because of this, the command wouldn't let me work from home because what could I do? I'll tell you, I could not be around a building with over 1,000 people in it potentially contracting this virus.



Your new job blows. I haven't been inside work since last Tuesday and not scheduled until Tues next week (Can’t work from home.) Be careful man.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Shared this with a doc friend who was skeptical and responded with, "Tell your famiy, if a doctor ever comes to them and asks that you'll be put on a vent with three other people they should vote for the three other people dying".
> 🤣



I'm legitimately curious about it.  The doc that did it has the educational background to build it with the right safe guards.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I'm legitimately curious about it.  The doc that did it has the educational background to build it with the right safe guards.


Me too, which is why I asked my doc buddy about it.  It's well outside my wheelhouse but definitely in his.  This was part of his response (referencing the video in the story):
"Where to even start? Probably works great until you get sicker and need more pressure than your neighbor who now gets all air. She talks about being used in the Las Vegas Trauma response. But that's entirely different because most of those people would have healthy lungs. They don't need to vent for lung function."

Maybe works under certain very specific situations? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Always appreciate someone trying to come up with innovative solutions though.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 21, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Me too, which is why I asked my doc buddy about it.  Well outside my wheelhouse but this was part of his response (referencing the video in the story):
> "Where to even start? Probably works great until you get sicker and need more pressure than your neighbor who now gets all air. She talks about being used in the Las Vegas Trauma response. But that's entirely different because most of those people would have healthy lungs. They don't need to vent for lung function."
> 
> Maybe works under certain very specific situations? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> ...



Found a better article and his approach is to use it as a last resort.  There's more details in the article on it's function and limits.   I know the hospital and it's a small rural hospital that normally doesn't have much inpatient care.   The article says it recently got 4 new ventilators to replace 4 old ones that can't be repaired any more but are still functioning, held in reserve.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/perth-ventilator-covid-19-1.5501891


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 21, 2020)

Pretty interesting article

Evidence over hysteria — COVID-19


----------



## Brill (Mar 21, 2020)

Fighting COVID!


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)

lindy said:


> Your new job blows. I haven't been inside work since last Tuesday and not scheduled until Tues next week (Can’t work from home.) Be careful man.



Yea,


lindy said:


> Your new job blows. I haven't been inside work since last Tuesday and not scheduled until Tues next week (Can’t work from home.) Be careful man.



Yea, it is vastly different culturaly from where I was.


----------



## Brill (Mar 21, 2020)

Hang tough @BloodStripe !


----------



## Dvr55119 (Mar 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Pretty interesting article
> 
> Evidence over hysteria — COVID-19



So do we trust the WHO and China’s data, or not? I seriously don’t know.People who want us to think it is going to be ok say to use China’s data, but also say Chinas data is bullshit. People who want to freak out say China’s data is bullshit, but also point to China’s data. So... what is the right thing...?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> This, in an email this afternoon from our leadership:
> 
> <SNIP>
> For the safety of our patients and team members, we have implemented the appropriate infection control precautions to avoid the spread of the potential virus. While we await the results from the test, the patient is being cared for in a contained and isolated unit by volunteers from our infectious disease team who are specially trained in the treatment of patients with novel viruses."
> ...



From page 1 of this thread, January 24.  Just 2 months ago... @Devildoc for the win.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 21, 2020)

lindy said:


> Hang tough @BloodStripe !



It's all good. This too shall pass.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 21, 2020)

Spoiler:  Finland just closed its border!



No one is allowed to cross the Finish Line!  (I’ll be here all night, ladies and gents!)


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Spoiler:  Finland just closed its border!
> 
> 
> 
> No one is allowed to cross the Finish Line!  (I’ll be here all night, ladies and gents!)


Shouldn't that be ladies and germs?

LL


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Mar 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Spoiler:  Finland just closed its border!
> 
> 
> 
> No one is allowed to cross the Finish Line!  (I’ll be here all night, ladies and gents!)




I just said your joke in the Horatio Caine voice....YEAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 22, 2020)

We just had a live address from the Prime Minister and Chief Medical Officer. As of tomorrow at 12pm pubs, clubs, casinos, cinemas, gyms and indoor sporting venues will close down indefinitely. Restaurants and cafes can only serve takeaways, no dining. This could last for up to 6 months. 

They rolled out some social distancing measures last week but the thousands of idiots gathering at Bondi Beach showed that people aren’t going to follow the guidelines unless they are enforced.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Welp, was just notified via an all hands text an employee in my office has tested positive for COVID-19. They won't say who, which concerns me as to whether or not I had close contact with them.


I'm sure you won't be the only one doing a Monday morning headcount to determine who didn't come  in.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 22, 2020)

It's bound to happen. Right now it's still novel, new, but as testing continues we will see more and more positives. I suspect it will be doing screenings in my department and probably fool out testing in another week or so.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 22, 2020)

I've had some concerns about the use of this medication, especially how damaging Quinism can be.  

Nigeria Has Chloroquine Poisonings After Trump Praised Drug

The Quinism Foundation


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 22, 2020)

And now we know why 0 new cases were reported.


----------



## Brill (Mar 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I've had some concerns about the use of this medication, especially how damaging Quinism can be.
> 
> Nigeria Has Chloroquine Poisonings After Trump Praised Drug
> 
> The Quinism Foundation



Interesting use of the word “poisoning“ vice overdose. Sub-Sahara Africans use that shit for everything as they believe it’s a miracle drug.

https://www.nature.com/articles/eye1993128.pdf?origin=ppub

Nigerians studied it back in ‘93.

*Chloroquine overdose and leucopenia in Nigerians.*

Europe PMC

https://www.unn.edu.ng/abstract-chloroquine-abuse-and-heart-block-in-2/


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 22, 2020)

Bypass said:


>



I can't believe nobody pointed out that he has a half eaten doughnut in his hand near the end. Guess he took the trade...


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 22, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I can't believe nobody pointed out that he has a half eaten doughnut in his hand near the end. Guess he took the trade...


Oh, that was a given, think of the audience here.  Why else would he post it?  

LL


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I've had some concerns about the use of this medication, especially how damaging Quinism can be.
> 
> Nigeria Has Chloroquine Poisonings After Trump Praised Drug
> 
> The Quinism Foundation


In the US it is impossible to get chloroquine without a prescription.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 22, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Oh, that was a given, think of the audience here.  Why else would he post it?
> 
> LL



Fair point.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> In the US it is impossible to get chloroquine without a prescription.



Same here but it's been used to treat those hospitalized. 



Thing's are on track to get ugly here soon. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...O7Uavf6Nmf5qcr65AempTuqmWFDxQTol-lPMEBktvcZhU


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Same here but it's been used to treat those hospitalized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the point though.  So far the combination of hydrochloroquine and the Z-pac together have proved to be an effective combination against COVID-19.  Should it be done carefully?  Certainly.  But these doctors out there going HAM on twitter against the president are virtue signalling for clicks.  Either we treat this as a try everything ordeal or get back to normal and stop sinking the economy.


----------



## Brill (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> That's the point though.  So far the combination of *hydrochloroquine and the Z-pac together *have proved to be an effective combination against COVID-19.  Should it be done carefully?  Certainly.  But these doctors out there going HAM on twitter against the president are virtue signalling for clicks.  Either we treat this as a try everything ordeal or get back to normal and stop sinking the economy.



No!  Eet can keel yooooh.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1241416712269860865
Nope, that was old news.  Never mind.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1241749428492537864


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

Watching the press conference and the press is slammed nut to butt up in there...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 22, 2020)

No one believes China, so let's get Iran on board.  lol

Iran backs China, calls to investigate U.S. "creation and spread" of coronavirus


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

Something I've been wondering about, will we see a national uptick in suicides as folks become more stressed about the financial and emotional toll this is putting on their lives, combined with the loneliness and and no hard date of when life might be back to some semblance of normalcy.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

So there's this: 

At New York prison, Harvey Weinstein put in isolation after contracting virus


----------



## MikeDelta (Mar 22, 2020)




----------



## Dame (Mar 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> No one believes China, so let's get Iran on board.  lol
> 
> Iran backs China, calls to investigate U.S. "creation and spread" of coronavirus


Starting to feel a little twinge of the Collusion Virus.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

So...we had a rescue operation over the weekend?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...we had a rescue operation over the weekend?


What are you talking about?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> No one believes China, so let's get Iran on board.  lol
> 
> Iran backs China, calls to investigate U.S. "creation and spread" of coronavirus


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

Recent interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm.  He’s considered one of the ‘go to’ experts on this topic in the world.  I’ve been reading ‘everything’ on this pandemic and Osterholm knows his stuff and tells it like it is.

Coronavirus pandemic: What's 'normal' now? What's next? An interview with Michael Osterholm.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What are you talking about?


Not sure if you're watching the press conference, but toggle it when it's over and President Trump mentions it in his opening statement.  Then about 30 minutes in again.



Ooh-Rah said:


> Recent interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm.  He’s considered one of the ‘go to’ experts on this topic in the world.  I’ve been reading ‘everything’ on this pandemic and Osterholm knows his stuff and tells it like it is.
> 
> Coronavirus pandemic: What's 'normal' now? What's next? An interview with Michael Osterholm.
> 
> ...



Shill?  I don't think that's what @Blizzard said in this thread.  I'd have to find it, but "doomsday predictor{alarmist]" seemed to be the description.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shill? I don't think that's what @Blizzard said in this thread. I'd have to find it, but "doomsday predictor{alarmist]" seemed to be the description.


I was not speaking about Blizzard necessarily, just overall.  But I deleted it because before you posted this because it came across more aggressive than I had intended.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Watching the press conference and the press is slammed nut to butt up in there...



I wonder how many of them are asymptomatic?  

LL


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Something I've been wondering about, will we see a national uptick in suicides as folks become more stressed about the financial and emotional toll this is putting on their lives, combined with the loneliness and and no hard date of when life might be back to some semblance of normalcy.


Probably.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 22, 2020)

All public places and businesses closed today, lockdown in 48hrs.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shill?  I don't think that's what @Blizzard said in this thread.  I'd have to find it, but "doomsday predictor{alarmist]" seemed to be the description.


Yes, opinions differ.  He's gotten a fair amount of air time.  Without throwing any stones, I'll just say I'm not as enamored with Osterholm as others.  He's a data scientist; nothing mystical about him. I shared my views earlier in this thread and don't really have anything more to add.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 22, 2020)

*Filed under:*



Florida university says students tested positive for coronavirus after spring break trip


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not sure if you're watching the press conference, but toggle it when it's over and President Trump mentions it in his opening statement. Then about 30 minutes in again.


Found it.

American Woman Rescued in Secretive Military Op, Trump Says


----------



## Teufel (Mar 23, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

Data crunchers/epidemiologists have their place.  It takes a village and all that.  The ones who glom onto one conclusion are the ones with whom I take issue.  I like it when they give the range.  As a preparedness/response/clinical guy, give me options, not advice.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 23, 2020)




----------



## Dame (Mar 23, 2020)

World War Xi?



Teufel said:


> View attachment 32697


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

I saw this "tracker" site.  I cannot claim the validity of the data, though I *think* it skews to worst-case scenarios.  You can change the state.  I think what it does do though is show how the hospitalized cases (and M&M rate) can be affected by social distancing and quarantines (even if I don't like their data/methodology).

This model predicts the last day each state can act before the point of no return


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I saw this "tracker" site.  I cannot claim the validity of the data, though I *think* it skews to worst-case scenarios.  You can change the state.  I think what it does do though is show how the hospitalized cases (and M&M rate) can be affected by social distancing and quarantines (even if I don't like their data/methodology).
> 
> This model predicts the last day each state can act before the point of no return


It's pretty much a worst case.  I don't think a single state out there is now operating "business as usual".


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's pretty much a worst case.  I don't think a single state out there is now operating "business as usual".



I agree re: worst-case.

I see a very significant disconnect between what the Very Important People are saying, and what the people are actually doing.  I took my sons to work yesterday, no change in volume at the shopping centers, the basketball courts were busy, and the soccer fields were full.  People either a) have pandemic overload, b) think the risk is overstated, and/or c) don't care.  Maybe a combo of all three.

It just goes to show you that the state can shut down and businesses modify hours, but people are gonna people.


----------



## Brill (Mar 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> *People* either a) have pandemic overload, b) think the risk is overstated, and/or c) don't care.  Maybe a combo of all three.



Sadly, one cannot determine if you’re referring to public or Congress here.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 23, 2020)

@Devildoc yep, people get told not to do shit and they do it just because. 

I posted last night some of the venues that the government ordered to close and that was “stage 1”. Among those venues were restaurants, and what did photos emerge this evening of? Restaurants not complying and still letting people dine.

Not sure what “stage 2” is but it doesn’t sound fun.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I agree re: worst-case.
> 
> I see a very significant disconnect between what the Very Important People are saying, and what the people are actually doing.  I took my sons to work yesterday, no change in volume at the shopping centers, the basketball courts were busy, and the soccer fields were full.  People either a) have pandemic overload, b) think the risk is overstated, and/or c) don't care.  Maybe a combo of all three.
> 
> It just goes to show you that the state can shut down and businesses modify hours, but people are gonna people.




Devil's Advocate:

Explain where shelter-in-place powers are enumerated in the constitution/amendments. Specifically with regards to freedom of press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, 10th amendment, etc.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Devil's Advocate:
> 
> Explain where shelter-in-place powers are enumerated in the constitution/amendments. Specifically with regards to freedom of press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, 10th amendment, etc.



No argument from my end, Compadre.

I think it's all a very slippery slope and it makes me very nervous.  That said, the data are clear with social distancing and quarantines.  I just see a difference between what is said/recommended and what is done.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 23, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Explain where shelter-in-place powers are enumerated in the constitution/amendments. Specifically with regards to freedom of press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, 10th amendment, etc.


Playing the Devil's Advocate's advocate, it could be argued that the general nature of the 10th Amendment provides sufficient latitude to state governments to impose such restrictions as shelter in place, etc...

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. "

Not saying I agree with some of these governmental edicts, but I'm pretty sure there are lawyers out there that could argue the case with some success.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 23, 2020)

Increasingly, I see people, myself included, getting frustrated with information and directives being provided by gov't officials and the media.  There seems to be a lack or critical thinking in many areas. The result is that some of what we're being told just comes off, frankly, as a bunch of bullshit.  

BTW, isn't to suggest the virus isn't serious nor does it mean precautions aren't needed; that's not my position.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 23, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> @Devildoc yep, people get told not to do shit and they do it just because.
> 
> I posted last night some of the venues that the government ordered to close and that was “stage 1”. Among those venues were restaurants, and what did photos emerge this evening of? Restaurants not complying and still letting people dine.
> 
> Not sure what “stage 2” is but it doesn’t sound fun.



There aren't enough Law Enforcement in the entire country to stop that from happening...that's why Newsom said "social enforcement."  

Again...ho we've talked ourselves into voluntary martial law astounds me.  But hey I guess that's why everyone and their mother went out and bought guns.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

In an effort to get as educated as we can about what we are facing, we've been forwarded an article...from 2007...about SARS-CoV.  You know what they pinged as a potential source and location?  Bats, from China.

Clinical Microbiology Reviews, Oct 2007, 660-694.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In an effort to get as educated as we can about what we are facing, we've been forwarded an article...from 2007...about SARS-CoV.  You know what they pinged as a potential source and location?  Bats, from China.
> 
> Clinical Microbiology Reviews, Oct 2007, 660-694.



If we go back to the previous genome article I posted about SARS-COV-2.  It was mapped in both Bats and Pangolins.  However, based on the mutation, the one in bats was missing something in it's genetic code that the one in Pangolins had.  

@Devildoc you previously talked of asymptomatic people with GI symptoms.  Well guess what Pangolins eat?  Guano.  Bat shit is a huge portion of the pangolin diet apparently.


----------



## Brill (Mar 23, 2020)

Other than Ch-EYE-nuh, did any place else in Asia suspend rights? Then again, where else were people licking ice cream containers and putting them back?

What can the West learn from Asia's coronavirus fight?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 23, 2020)




----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 23, 2020)

Yea, my cousin was one of those "it is my God given freedom as an American to still go out, fuck the governor."

His buddy he went drinking with in Toledo just tested positive for it yesterday. He'll be likely fine.

My cousin's a bit more worried he's caught it, because he has an immunocompromised toddler and pregnant wife at home.

All this "playing Devil's advocate" and "I won't obey because it isn't a constitutional power" shit is going to get people killed.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea, my cousin was one of those "it is my God given freedom as an American to still go out, fuck the governor."
> 
> His buddy he went drinking with in Toledo just tested positive for it yesterday. He'll be likely fine.
> 
> ...


Where's he doing his quarantine? The dog house? Your garage? The local dumpster?

That's going to hurt that relationship. 

LL


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 23, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Where's he doing his quarantine? The dog house? Your garage? The local dumpster?
> 
> That's going to hurt that relationship.
> 
> LL



His parents live in the same small town and have a much larger house, so current plan is for wife and daughter to go stay with them for a week or so to see if he develops anything.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> His parents live in the same small town and have a much larger house, so current plan is for wife and daughter to go stay with them for a week or so to see if he develops anything.


Or so? Why not the recommended 14 days? Any way to get him tested?

I'm sorry this is happening in your family, no one needs this additional stress.

LL


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea, my cousin was one of those "it is my God given freedom as an American to still go out, fuck the governor."
> 
> His buddy he went drinking with in Toledo just tested positive for it yesterday. He'll be likely fine.
> 
> ...




To specifically address this in a vacuum.  Where's the line?


----------



## Kheenbish (Mar 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


>


Honest question, what happens in 1-3 months when everyone returns to work? Won't this same concept happen at that point also? 

I ask because in 1-3 montha everyone won't suddenly become immune or find a cure, nor will the virus just dissapear. I won't argue against the quarantine theory, but isn't it just delaying the inevitable?


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 23, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Or so? Why not the recommended 14 days? Any way to get him tested?
> 
> I'm sorry this is happening in your family, no one needs this additional stress.
> 
> LL



They're thinking was "buddy knew he was sick in a week, so that's good enough."
Had to explain to him that his friend already probably had it. Think they understand it needs to be two weeks minimum right now. 
Not to trash my relatives, but this is the same side of the family that just bought Coronavirus-killing toothpaste because Alex Jones said it would work.




ThunderHorse said:


> To specifically address this in a vacuum.  Where's the line?



That's absolutely a fair question, one that I'm not qualified to answer from a legal perspective. 

As a layperson though, what's more likely to result in legislation that truly takes our rights away:

People comply with the orders even though they seem like BS overreactions, and once this is over we get our elected officials to fully develop future pandemic response plans and codify those in law.

Or

People continue to ignore health guidelines and we see increased deaths and spread of the pandemic; the population is scared and allows anything (up to and including martial law) to pass, because fear trumps rights (IE Patriot Act).

Those of us actually worried about our rights now are still going to be active in that regard after this; if you scare the average American, they'll give up everything for a sense of security.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 23, 2020)

Kheenbish said:


> Honest question, what happens in 1-3 months when everyone returns to work? Won't this same concept happen at that point also?
> 
> I ask because in 1-3 montha everyone won't suddenly become immune or find a cure, nor will the virus just dissapear. I won't argue against the quarantine theory, but isn't it just delaying the inevitable?



I don't have a link right now because I'm at work, but the idea is that it keeps this at a more manageable number, hospital/healthcare resources wise, for a much longer time.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 23, 2020)

Kheenbish said:


> Honest question, what happens in 1-3 months when everyone returns to work? Won't this same concept happen at that point also?
> 
> I ask because in 1-3 montha everyone won't suddenly become immune or find a cure, nor will the virus just dissapear. I won't argue against the quarantine theory, but isn't it just delaying the inevitable?



We don't know.  It could be like MERS and disappear.  It could go away and come back, seasonally, like a flu.  Or it could be a one time, watershed event.

Quarantine/social distancing can prevent transmission, once the bug runs its' course, it'll just die out.

But right now, no one knows.  But we DO know "flattening the curve" will mitigate oversaturation of healthcare resources.


----------



## Brill (Mar 23, 2020)

THIS is why We cannot be defeated. Ever. (Or American ingenuity rises again)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242150623576862720


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 23, 2020)

Italy is getting overwhelmed, they're seeing increases in cases between 30-40 year olds. Don't go out if you can avoid it, and don't engage in risky behavior that might lead to injury in the next few months. Avoid contacts that practice adverse behavior.






Infrastructure to treat this thing is going to take time. Video below gives explanation of the steps being taken right now to build up capabilities.






For those outside the forum. Our nation and the rest of the world are under attack, by a viral agent that originated near China's sole biosafety level 4 facility. China covered this up with help from the WHO, until things could not be hidden anymore. When the bodies start piling up or when you can't breath and are coughing up blood, remember it was China who seeded the world with this virus.


----------



## Dame (Mar 23, 2020)

Time to unass Denver. $999 fine if  you get caught outside your home. Not kidding.
Denver liquor stores, marijuana shops now allowed to stay open with "extreme physical distancing"

ETA: Fuck you Xi. You did this and we know it.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 23, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog

The WHO helping the CCP attempt to cover this up?
Your post is the first I've heard of that.
ETA: You got a link or two I can check out?

@ThunderHorse

Denver/Philly/others fining individuals for being outside and the DOJ trying to suspend Habeas Corpus are all things I'm willing to say are crossing the line.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 23, 2020)

Dame said:


> Time to unass Denver. $999 fine if  you get caught outside your home. Not kidding.
> Denver liquor stores, marijuana shops now allowed to stay open with "extreme physical distancing"


Completely unenforceable.  And liquor and pot stores allowed to remain open as essential businesses?  A lot of things I've read make me share my head but Denver did it.  They went full retard.


----------



## Sigaba (Mar 23, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> Devil's Advocate:
> 
> Explain where shelter-in-place powers are enumerated in the constitution/amendments. Specifically with regards to freedom of press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, 10th amendment, etc.


FWIW, Martial Law and Constitutional Limitations


----------



## Dame (Mar 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @R.Caerbannog
> 
> The WHO helping the CCP attempt to cover this up?
> Your post is the first I've heard of that.
> ...



From: How China’s Incompetence Endangered the World 

This is much more than inside-baseball Chinese politics. It matters deeply for businesses wondering how long the pain of China’s shutdown will last and for public health leaders worried about how they might handle the coronavirus should it spread inside their countries, states, or cities. It has spilled over onto WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who has faced sharp criticism—even a recall petition—for his meetings with Xi and other Chinese leaders and his apparent reluctance to declare the outbreak a global health emergency.

For his part, Xi disappeared from public view the day after his January 27 meeting the WHO’s Ghebreyesus, not to be seen again for twelve days, when he briefly strolled through the Chaoyang district of Beijing, wearing a medical mask.

The political crisis in China is prompting global concern about the reliability of epidemic data released by the Chinese government, the usefulness of Chinese guidance regarding how the virus is spread and who is at risk for death, and the measures best taken to protect health care workers from falling victim to the disease they are trying to treat. Since the first Dec. 30 announcement of a new disease in Wuhan, the CCP has woven a tapestry of narratives, primarily for domestic political purposes, aligning official case and death numbers with the storylines. Meanwhile, the international health community, from WHO all the way down to academic statisticians and infectious diseases analysts, has tried to infer from the dubious official daily tallies just how dangerous the coronavirus disease may be for the rest of the world.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 23, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> @R.Caerbannog
> 
> The WHO helping the CCP attempt to cover this up?
> Your post is the first I've heard of that.
> ...


They knew about this and fucked us.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217043229427761152


Spoiler: In case tweet gets deleted"



Snip:




Taiwan Accuses WHO of Failing to Heed Warning of Coronavirus Human-to-Human Transmission | National Review


----------



## Dame (Mar 23, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Completely unenforceable.  And liquor and pot stores allowed to remain open as essential businesses?  A lot of things I've read make me share my head but Denver did it.  They went full retard.


Because, as it turns out yet again, math is not a skill in which the elected excel. 
Immediate lines outside liquor and pot shops were not only long, but several times as long with people keeping a 3-6 foot distance from each other. 
lines in denver liquor - Yahoo Video Search Results


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 23, 2020)

To no one's real surprise, similar ridiculousness is taking place in CA due to "shelter in place" orders. One of my business partners lives in Irvine and tells me they aren't allowing any more than 10 families into grocery stores at a time so as to maintain social distancing. So, what do they do? Stack up together outside to wait their turn to go in. 🤯


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 23, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> They knew about this and fucked us.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217043229427761152
> ...


China pressures WHO not to deal with Taiwan.
The director "General" of the WHO is probably more leftist then medical man (google his name), so making China look bad really isn't on his list (unless necessary to save his ass).


----------



## AWP (Mar 23, 2020)

There's "y'all need to stay home" and then there's "fine or jail if you leave your residence." "Businesses should voluntarily close or mitigate the public's risk" is not the same as "You are directed to..."

Also, fuck the lying ass Chinese gov't. Trash human beings not worthy of oxygen.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Mar 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> There's "y'all need to stay home" and then there's "fine or jail if you leave your residence." "Businesses should voluntarily close or mitigate the public's risk" is not the same as "You are directed to..."
> 
> Also, fuck the lying ass Chinese gov't. Trash human beings not worthy of oxygen.



PORTLAND, Ore — Oregon Governor Kate Brown issued strict orders Monday to shut down non-essential businesses and constrain social and recreational gatherings.

The move, which lists violations as a Class C misdemeanor, forces closure of businesses like arcades, barber shops, hair salons, gyms and fitness studios, skating rinks, playgrounds, theaters, sports facilities and yoga studios.

Businesses that remain open must implement social distancing guidelines, keeping customers at least six feet apart. Workers must be given a chance by employers to work from home. The order does not affect families in homes.

Gov. Brown outlines strict stay-at-home orders, punishable by fines or jail


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 24, 2020)

Governor Ralph Northam declared a state of emergency in response to COVID-19 here in Virginia
Coronavirus Updates | Virginia.gov


----------



## CQB (Mar 24, 2020)

lindy said:


> Other than Ch-EYE-nuh, did any place else in Asia suspend rights? Then again, where else were people licking ice cream containers and putting them back?
> 
> What can the West learn from Asia's coronavirus fight?


Australia, Biosecurity Act 2015 which was enacted last week. I think the US has similar in place, no one has pulled the trigger yet.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 24, 2020)

Maybe the door is opening to some other ideas/approaches.  As an example, I'm sure a number of you are familiar with Thomas Friedman.  Regardless of what you think of him, he had this op-ed published in the New York.Times:
Opinion | A Plan to Get America Back to Work

In his opinion piece, Friedman references this one from the president of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center (part of Yale's School of Public Health) as well:
Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?

The fact the other ideas are at least presented in a forum like the NYT is kind of encouraging.  Maybe it will spark broader dialogue.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Yea, my cousin was one of those "it is my God given freedom as an American to still go out, fuck the governor."
> 
> His buddy he went drinking with in Toledo just tested positive for it yesterday. He'll be likely fine.
> 
> ...



And so will the people that don't follow the lead of distancing, get it, get through it fine, and "prove" that it's all a big waste of time to social distance. Both sides of each isle are contributing to bad outcomes.



Dame said:


> Because, as it turns out yet again, math is not a skill in which the elected excel.
> Immediate lines outside liquor and pot shops were not only long, but several times as long with people keeping a 3-6 foot distance from each other.
> lines in denver liquor - Yahoo Video Search Results



When managers and leaders come up with these ridiculous guidelines they don't think far enough ahead. You can only allow a group in at a time, only to stand in line clustered up. Or take tables away from a smoke pit outside of the chow hall, only to find people gather up in tighter groups because they don't have a table to separate the others in front of them. Or you make it mandatory for everyone to wash their hands and use hand sanitize before standing in line to grab chow, but the line is 12 minutes long and you end up pulling your phone out to pass the time. 

@Blizzard Regarding the pot and liquor stores being essential businesses, the products might not be essential, but the heavier taxes will help cover expenses in the interim, at least in my opinion.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 24, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> China pressures WHO not to deal with Taiwan.
> The director "General" of the WHO is probably more leftist then medical man (google his name), so making China look bad really isn't on his list (unless necessary to save his ass).


Yup. Enemies within and enemies without. The American people better wake up to see that the rest of the world doesn't care about us or our allies.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 24, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> @Blizzard Regarding the pot and liquor stores being essential businesses, the products might not be essential, but the heavier taxes will help cover expenses in the interim, at least in my opinion.


I'm sure that plays a role but it also speaks to the ridiculousness of it all.  If public safety was truly the priority, there is no way these could be consolidated essential.  

That said, I'm off to the liquor store...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 24, 2020)

This is the reasoning behind keeping liquor and beer stores open here.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 24, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yup. Enemies within and enemies without. The American people better wake up to see that the rest of the world doesn't care about us or our allies.


On this statement we are in 100% agreement.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 24, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> On this statement we are in 100% agreement.


Ditto.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 24, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Mar 24, 2020)

I was just talking with our MICU medical director.  We were talking about how this feels like the calm before the storm, it's very quiet.  He said that with the hospital cancelling elective cases and halting non-emergent admits "we have the lowest census we've had in years."

He also said that one of his colleagues from the MICU just tested positive.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 24, 2020)

State is on lockdown...let's go to Florida:

New Yorkers fleeing to Florida to avoid coronavirus lockdown, DeSantis says


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 24, 2020)

Dame said:


> Time to unass Denver.


----------



## Dame (Mar 24, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


>


Someone was playing this on the plane.


----------



## AWP (Mar 24, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> View attachment 32719


 If there was ever a time to put aside the AD vs. Guard vs. Reserves vs. Coast Guard memes and trash talking...I think we're here.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 24, 2020)

Edit: Mods...this was supposed to be posted in the . thread.  Please move, if needed.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 24, 2020)

I question how someone can make it through a 4+ minute video that many times...


----------



## Brill (Mar 24, 2020)

Not sure if this is political or COVID but either way, stupid is as stupid does.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242290671467315200


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 24, 2020)

lindy said:


> Not sure if this is political or COVID but either way, stupid is as stupid does.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242290671467315200


It says on the package: DO NOT INJEST.  The dickheads making it political need to stfu.


----------



## Brill (Mar 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It says on the package: DO NOT INJEST.  The dickheads making it political need to stfu.



Guess they didn’t even have the WU Flu?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242212084647104514


----------



## Brill (Mar 24, 2020)

^^^ Fish tank cleaner in Wu Fu fight belongs here:

Hold My Beer (@holdmyale) on Twitter

enjoy while in isolation.


----------



## AWP (Mar 25, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 25, 2020)

Just keeping up with our asset seizures in a time of Global pandemic which we caused eh?  With world busy fighting coronavirus, China quietly builds installations on Philippine-claimed reefs


----------



## Brill (Mar 25, 2020)

Makes ya go “hmmm”.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242909940383129601


----------



## Brill (Mar 25, 2020)

Worth a listen because you won’t see this on the soundbites .


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242952507778912257


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 25, 2020)

Colorado with a Shelter In Place Order thru 11 APR. Gov. Jared Polis orders Colorado to stay home in bid to slow coronavirus outbreak


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 25, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Mar 25, 2020)

SECDEF: Yeah, y'all ain't going anywhere for 60 days.

Overseas Stop Movement Order in Response to COVID-19



> Today, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper enacted a 60-day stop movement order for all DoD uniformed and civilian personnel and their sponsored family members overseas. This measure is taken to aid in further prevention of the spread of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), to protect U.S. personnel and preserve the operational readiness of our global force.
> 
> Building upon previously enacted movement restrictions governing foreign travel, permanent change of station moves, temporary duty and personal leave, this stop movement order will also impact exercises, deployments, redeployments and other global force management activities. Approximately 90,000 Service Members slated to deploy or redeploy over the next 60 days will likely be impacted by this stop movement order.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> SECDEF: Yeah, y'all ain't going anywhere for 60 days.
> 
> Overseas Stop Movement Order in Response to COVID-19


Buys time for anyone PCSing to a communist shithole in the lower 48 to make arrangements for the family heirlooms, I’d reckon


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> SECDEF: Yeah, y'all ain't going anywhere for 60 days.
> 
> Overseas Stop Movement Order in Response to COVID-19


 
Was getting live updates from the Iron Brigade about Dona Ana's quarantine facilities for Soldiers returning from Europe.


----------



## medicchick (Mar 26, 2020)

Oh and you know shit is serious when Waffle House closes 365 locations...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

Thankfully no “rap”, it’s just fun to watch.


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 26, 2020)




----------



## Dame (Mar 26, 2020)

Well done! 
James Dyson designed a new ventilator in 10 days. He’s making 15,000 for the coronavirus pandemic fight


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 26, 2020)

Interesting piece on "vanity metrics" as related to the corona crisis, and why numbers only tell part of the story:

"Numbers are strong and numbers are persuasive. But numbers only tell one side of a story and often that side of the story is specifically utilized to help promote a cause or agenda."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

This is the frame-of-mind that I deal with on the other board I post on.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 26, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is the frame-of-mind that I deal with on the other board I post on.
> 
> View attachment 32764


Then why post on it?

LL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Then why post on it?
> 
> LL


Because in the non-political threads there is a subject-matter-expert for nearly any topic you could ever come up with.  Overall they are a fantastic group of guys who are incredibly generous with each other and have helped fellow members out of bankruptcy, a totaled car, and I watched live as the group tracked down a member who had posted his 'final goodbye' on the board and got police and paramedics to him moments before he took his own life.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 26, 2020)

Gotta keep us Canuck's away from quarantined freedom. 

Trump looking to put troops near Canadian border amid coronavirus fears


----------



## Brill (Mar 26, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Thankfully no “rap”, it’s just fun to watch.



can’t get that outta my head now...


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 26, 2020)

Happy opening day for America's favorite past time! Oh wait, thanks China...


----------



## Marine0311 (Mar 26, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Because in the non-political thread's, there is a subject-matter-expert for nearly any topic you could ever come up with; overall they are a fantastic group of guys who are incedibily generous with each other and have helped fellow members out of bankruptcy, a totaled car, and I watched live as the group tracked down a member who had posted his 'final goodbye' on the board and got police and paramedics to him moments before he took his own life.



Wow! Awesome to hear that!


----------



## Brill (Mar 26, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is the frame-of-mind that I deal with on the other board I post on.
> 
> View attachment 32764



I think we would still be talking about it but economic impact to the US would be drastically less.


----------



## Brill (Mar 26, 2020)

”Listen to the doctors!” they say. Ok.

User Clip: Dr. Birx on Media Coverage


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 26, 2020)

Looks like Big Pharma is attempting to keep their supply lines in China and out of the US.
Big Pharma and free market orgs unite against Trump’s ‘Buy American’ order | Spectator USA


Spoiler: Letter


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Looks like Big Pharma is attempting to keep their supply lines in China and out of the US.
> Big Pharma and free market orgs unite against Trump’s ‘Buy American’ order | Spectator USA
> 
> 
> ...


They should have had the Buy American provision in the COVID-19 Relief act.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 26, 2020)

Big Pharma has never existed to help the USA and never will -- regardless of the exigent circumstances. They are about money and nothing more.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 26, 2020)

I have no pants on, that is all


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 26, 2020)

@ThunderHorse Well there's this, but I'm not sure if I should hold my breath.
https://gaetz.house.gov/sites/gaetz.house.gov/files/wysiwyg_uploaded/GAETZ_NoChinaAct041_xml.pdf


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 26, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> I have no pants on, that is all



Everyone needs a naked room.....


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

Got a 6 pack of Charmin delivered tonight from Amazon.  I'm all....

4-more weeks!
4-more weeks!
4-more weeks!


----------



## AWP (Mar 26, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Everyone needs a naked room.....



Mine's the office.
---
Break, break, just had this go down, at work no less.

Coworker 1: Makes a statement about the media and Trump's approval rating
CW2: That's because you suck the dick of the GOP
Your kind, loving AWP: Shut the fuck up. This is not the time and place for this out of either of you. Have a discussion or not, but the sucking comment is out of line.

People are losing their minds over this shit.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

President Trump's letter to the 50 Governors.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 26, 2020)

Hey bro,

You go ahead and take my Covid-19 test....really it's okay...no, honestly, I don't mind, you can have mine!



Spoiler: F That...I'll take my chances!


----------



## Florida173 (Mar 27, 2020)

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson tests positive for COVID-19



> "I am now self-isolating, but I will continue to lead the government's response via video-conference as we fight this virus.
> 
> "Together we will beat this. #StayHomeSaveLives."




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243496858095411200


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 27, 2020)

1,100 soldier's from Ft. Bragg's Expeditionary Sustainment Command are deploying to Washington (state) and NY to assist FEMA.

Our numbers of PUIs and positive tests are trickling higher, but we're still waiting for the surge.  I talked (well, online) with one ED doc (not here) who has it, says it's knocked him into next week, horrible pneumonia.  So we are seeing quite a range from "mild symptoms/I didn't know I had it" to "almost died", all in otherwise healthy people.  A local guy with hypertension and "mild kidney disease" died from it; his first test was negative, he got worse, second test was positive, he went from "not well" to dead very quickly.


----------



## Brill (Mar 27, 2020)

Tragedy on the highway...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243199946590949376


----------



## Brill (Mar 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Our numbers of PUIs and positive tests are trickling higher, but we're still waiting for the surge.  I talked (well, online) with one ED doc (not here) who has it, says it's knocked him into next week, horrible pneumonia.  So we are seeing quite a range from "mild symptoms/I didn't know I had it" to "almost died", all in otherwise healthy people.  A local guy with hypertension and "mild kidney disease" died from it; his first test was negative, he got worse, second test was positive, he went from "not well" to dead very quickly.



Any talk of your hospital using the malaria drug?


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 27, 2020)

lindy said:


> Any talk of your hospital using the malaria drug?



No, not now, but we are in trials with remdesivir.  It's had pretty good results with MERS, SARS, and Ebola.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> A local guy with hypertension and "mild kidney disease" died from it; his first test was negative, he got worse, second test was positive, he went from "not well" to dead very quickly.


That's the first "chill" I've had since this has all begun.  No kidney disease, but I do have hypertension and take atenolol.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That's the first "chill" I've had since this has all begun.  No kidney disease, but I do have hypertension and take atenolol.


I heard on the news yesterday those with hypertension and diabetes are at higher risk of dying from this virus. At least I got those 2 things going for me.


----------



## AWP (Mar 27, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> I heard on the news yesterday those with hypertension and diabetes are at higher risk of dying from this virus. At least I got those 2 things going for me.



With hypertension and 9 years breathing that wonderful Afghan air... this board could finally get some new staff members. Yay for progress!


----------



## Brill (Mar 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That's the first "chill" I've had since this has all begun.  No kidney disease, but I do have hypertension and take atenolol.



I have faith the social distancing and self-isolation are trying to slow the spread and buy time in order for scientists and doctors to develop medicine to destroy the virus.  The same mindset that put a man on the moon via an abacus will surely figure this out in the modern era. Additionally, I wonder how AI will be used against this pandemic.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hey bro,
> 
> You go ahead and take my Covid-19 test....really it's okay...no, honestly, I don't mind, you can have mine!
> 
> ...


The PA I had in Alaska incorporated digital rectal exams into his sick call protocol when he suspected troops of malingering...if he were still practicing today, I'm pretty sure this would be part of his regimen...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 27, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hey bro,
> 
> You go ahead and take my Covid-19 test....really it's okay...no, honestly, I don't mind, you can have mine!
> 
> ...


How much worse can it be than having this stuck up your nose?  






In fact, if it's just as bad, it will suck!


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 27, 2020)

lindy said:


> Tragedy on the highway...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243199946590949376


Deliberate act of terror.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> How much worse can it be than having this stuck up your nose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is unpleasant.  Sometimes they go in smooth (still unpleasant), sometimes they don't (very unpleasant).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 27, 2020)

US Now has more confirmed cases than China, Cities like New York where people live on top of each other in such density are abnormal.  Wuhan which has 3M more people than New York is a normal city in China...if New York is our epicenter...why would we somehow have more cases than China?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> why would we somehow have more cases than China?


Because China is not testing, much less reporting.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 27, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Because China is not testing, much less reporting.


Or are they testing, but not telling ? 



Regardless. You can't trust the information they are providing.

LL


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 27, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Or are they testing, but not telling ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whistleblowers from over there have said they aren’t testing. I’ll have to wade through my history later on to find the link.


----------



## Dame (Mar 27, 2020)

Something to do if sew inclined.   ... @LibraryLady

Mask Production


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 27, 2020)

Dame said:


> Something to do if sew inclined.   ... @LibraryLady
> 
> Mask Production


I've seen local groups are starting to do this.  I think it's a good idea, as some protection is better than nothing, though I'm worried the sheeple will think it's a cure-all.

LL


----------



## Dame (Mar 27, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> I've seen local groups are starting to do this.  I think it's a good idea, as some protection is better than nothing, though I'm worried the sheeple will think it's a cure-all.


A bit of good news: Stockpiles are being found and in many cases, donated.
National Cathedral, Nasdaq, Businesses and Unions Locate Troves of N95 Masks 

The National Cathedral donated 5,000 masks on Wednesday to two Washington hospitals to help doctors, nurses and others fight the coronavirus outbreak, part of a worldwide search that is turning up millions of desperately needed masks, sometimes in unusual places.
Facebook had donated its “emergency reserve” of 720,000 masks, which were purchased during recent wildfires in California. The company is working on sourcing millions more to donate.
A health care union called the S.E.I.U.-U.H.W. said it had found a whopping 39 million masks from a private company based in Pennsylvania that distributes medical supplies and pharmaceuticals. The masks were being sold for $5 each to groups like Kaiser Permanente and the Greater New York Hospital Association, the union said, adding that it had no financial interest at stake. 
Goldman Sachs has donated 600,000 N95 masks, “procured in the wake of previous epidemics,” with 400,000 going to hospitals in New York and New Jersey, Leslie Shribman, a spokeswoman for Goldman Sachs, said on Thursday. Abroad, Goldman Sachs is also donating 50,000 N95 masks to Britain’s National Health Service. 
Apple procured 10 million masks to donate to “the medical community in the United States,” its chief executive, Tim Cook, said in a video posted to Twitter on Wednesday, adding that “millions more” would be provided in Europe. 
Pornhub purchased and donated 50,000 surgical masks to New York-area medical professionals and emergency responders, a spokesman for the company said on Thursday.


----------



## SaintKP (Mar 27, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> cure-all




I have had certain employees(that were spot corrected immediately) that thought wearing gloves for everything would help.

Now let me clarify they would never change gloves if they left the area, they would still touch their grubby hands to their face and hair, and would eat and drink without changing them.

Really gets the blood pressure rising.

ETA: Also shows me who has worked in a hospital versus just thinking having PPE on is a cure all.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 27, 2020)

Not gonna lie, reading “Pornhub donated...” made me snort my coffee. I’m happy they stepped up and did something, don’t get me wrong. It just wasn’t the sentence I expected to read during my wake-up info binge.


----------



## Dame (Mar 27, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Not gonna lie, reading “Pornhub donated...” made me snort my coffee. I’m happy they stepped up and did something, don’t get me wrong. It just wasn’t the sentence I expected to read during my wake-up info binge.


Right?! Kind of cracked me up but hey, desperate times and all that.


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 27, 2020)

Dame said:


> Pornhub purchased and donated 50,000 surgical masks to New York-area medical professionals and emergency responders, a spokesman for the company said on Thursday.


Wow. What a socially responsible company! 

I'm impressed. I think.

LL


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 27, 2020)

Full Study on the genome of the virus.  As I mentioned a few pages back with the preliminary study that SARS-COV-2 had been mapped in both bats in Pangolins.  The study further finishes the source hypothesis being Pangolins.  The genome of SARS-COV-2 in Malayan Pangolins has a mutation that allows transfers to humans which the one in bats does not.  However, one of the major food sources of Pangolins remains guano.  

It is illegal to import Pangolins into China, but they get into the meat markets everywhere.  The meat markets are thoroughly unregulated for the most part it seems with wet markets being the norm in major metropoles.  Considering the widespread nature of the Pangolin trade I'd suspect that Chinese Customs officials just DGAF!

Identifying SARS-CoV-2 related coronaviruses in Malayan pangolins


----------



## AWP (Mar 27, 2020)

The Chinese are trash. Let's see how they react to the pangolin information.

PornHub is donating masks? That should force any mainstream company to double its mask production/ donation or get off our planet.

Can anyone tell me if someone's making plans to store x amount of N95 masks next to Indy's Arc of the Covenant? Asking for a friend. 

China is trash and not reporting the correct stats. If anyone believes China's numbers are correct, please fill your pockets with rocks and walk into the surf zone. Bonus points if you have a backpack filled with bricks.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 27, 2020)

And here I was impressed when PornHub made premium free.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 27, 2020)

AWP said:


> China is trash and not reporting the correct stats. If anyone believes China's numbers are correct, please fill your pockets with rocks and walk into the surf zone. Bonus points if you have a backpack filled with bricks.



Unfortunately it won't stop the media from reporting our failure as a country when China was able to stop the spread entirely...

I wonder how many people are truly buying all that bullshit.


----------



## AWP (Mar 27, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Unfortunately it won't stop the media from reporting our failure as a country when China was able to stop the spread entirely...
> 
> I wonder how many people are truly buying all that bullshit.



Yup, and it truly sickens me.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Mar 27, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And here I was impressed when PornHub made premium free.



Getting more people addicted; that's definitely something we need more of: "Coomers".  Sarcasm intended.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 27, 2020)

We still have a lot of procedural questions about what we are doing, so today we did mock rapid response/codes to train staff and look for holes.  Damn, there's still a lot of holes.  But we learned a ton, and will keep doing these with multiple staff on multiple units so everyone singing from the same sheet of music.

The PPE in the photos are mock and not what we are really wearing, is just a simulate.


----------



## Viper1 (Mar 27, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Unfortunately it won't stop the media from reporting our failure as a country when China was able to stop the spread entirely...
> 
> I wonder how many people are truly buying all that bullshit.



There is a lack of coordinated response in the US. We can’t determine when a pandemic occurs or its consequences but we should have been prepared for one, given previous epidemics. That alone is grounds for the “failure” argument. 

The PRC failed. So have we. We are where we are, and I hope we come out of this stronger and more resilient.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 27, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Not gonna lie, reading “Pornhub donated...” made me snort my coffee. I’m happy they stepped up and did something, don’t get me wrong. It just wasn’t the sentence I expected to read during my wake-up info binge.


Same here.
Just a thought, what percentage of the N95 masks are made in China?
Big Pharma pushing back against the POTUS demand for US production tells me what I need to know.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 27, 2020)

Viper1 said:


> There is a lack of coordinated response in the US. We can’t determine when a pandemic occurs or its consequences but we should have been prepared for one, given previous epidemics. That alone is grounds for the “failure” argument.
> 
> The PRC failed. So have we. We are where we are, and I hope we come out of this stronger and more resilient.


True, but when did we last have a real pandemic to work with?
Unexplored territory.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 27, 2020)

Viper1 said:


> There is a lack of coordinated response in the US. We can’t determine when a pandemic occurs or its consequences but we should have been prepared for one, given previous epidemics. That alone is grounds for the “failure” argument.
> 
> The PRC failed. So have we. We are where we are, and I hope we come out of this stronger and more resilient.



NYC Health Commissioner on 2 FEB: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243413067234308096


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 27, 2020)

Speaking of PPE...

Yes, there will be a baby boom in nine months or so...

Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 27, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Speaking of PPE...
> 
> Yes, there will be a baby boom in nine months or so...
> 
> Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer


In AL, WV, and FL, numbers could be higher...😯


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 27, 2020)

US population numbers could use a boost...


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 27, 2020)

Depends on which segment of the population proves to be most prolific...


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 27, 2020)

Well shit, that's true. I may have to hold off on looking at stock in Pampers and formula then.

(Gah! Gillette, Pampers, and Luvs, belong to Proctor & Gamble, not sure if I want to give money to a bunch of SJW's.)


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 27, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Well shit, that's true. I may have to hold off on looking at stock in Pampers and formula then.
> 
> (Gah! Gillette, Pampers, and Luvs, belong to Proctor & Gamble, not sure if I want to give money to a bunch of SJW's.)



Huggies is a far superior product anyway.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 27, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> US population numbers could use a boost...


I don't know about that.  Clearly, you haven't watched Tiger King.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 27, 2020)

And in another world... Free drugs.



> According to Henry, the drugs people receive will be based on their needs. She said regulated pharmaceutical alternatives, such as hydromorphone, will be provided to opioid dependents. Alcohol and cannabis will also be made available.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/safe-supply-drug-plan-covid-1.5511973


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't know about that.  Clearly, you haven't watched Tiger King.


I have not, nor will I. Netflix and Hulu are businesses I refuse to patronize.


RackMaster said:


> And in another world... Free drugs.
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/safe-supply-drug-plan-covid-1.5511973


Holy heck. It makes sense in a weird way. I get Canada doesn't want to deal with junkies dying in large numbers, taking up sorely needed medical resources, and ramping up on crime to get their fix... but wow! What a strange time we live in.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 27, 2020)

I use Minnesota VA as 100% of my healthcare, and I’ve always been very impressed with their cleanliness and the quality of care.

Minnesota's five veterans homes remain coronavirus-free, VA says


----------



## CQB (Mar 27, 2020)




----------



## Kaldak (Mar 27, 2020)

I can't even pay attention to what is being said...I simply hear a funny accent.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 27, 2020)

The stimulus check won't be in the mail for Americans who owe child support


Fuck ya!


----------



## digrar (Mar 28, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hey bro,
> 
> You go ahead and take my Covid-19 test....really it's okay...no, honestly, I don't mind, you can have mine!
> 
> F That...I'll take my chances!"View attachment 32779



I had that done after a suspected anthrax attack at the US Consulate in Perth back in 2001. My sinuses have never been clearer, before or since.
And it will be a long time before I forget the 7th Fleet rep bracing up and saying to the Doc, "Thank you Sir, may I have another?" Tears rolling down his cheek as the second nostril got bored out (we all got both done).



racing_kitty said:


> Not gonna lie, reading “Pornhub donated...” made me snort my coffee. I’m happy they stepped up and did something, don’t get me wrong. It just wasn’t the sentence I expected to read during my wake-up info binge.



Between the free premium and now this, they're turning out to be pretty solid global citizens.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 28, 2020)

So, you know those Test Kits Jack Ma sent the US...probably may as well throw those out.  China has sold millions of test kits and 80% are coming back with errors.  China Supplied Faulty Coronavirus Test Kits to Spain, Czech Republic


----------



## AWP (Mar 28, 2020)

I used to think the worst to happen to us was GoT's last season, then the coronavirus showed up.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 28, 2020)

I cannot wait for this to be over. A few cases reported in my county, coworkers developing dry coughs, I must assemble my toilet paper hazmat suit.


----------



## digrar (Mar 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, you know those Test Kits Jack Ma sent the US...probably may as well throw those out.  China has sold millions of test kits and 80% are coming back with errors.  China Supplied Faulty Coronavirus Test Kits to Spain, Czech Republic



Apparently the Czechs were made aware before the purchase that the kits have little success in detecting early stage covid and shouldn't be used until after day 5 of symptoms. 



> Facts Tell: Do China's coronavirus test kits have a high error rate? The answer is 'no'
> *Same claim in the Czech Republic? Also false*
> 
> Pavla Svrcinova, a regional hygienist of the Czech Republic, claimed via Czech radio recently that up to 80 percent of the rapid coronavirus test kits that the country ordered from China were not working properly.
> ...


----------



## CQB (Mar 28, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I can't even pay attention to what is being said...I simply hear a funny accent.


Jeez mate, that's not even a strong NZ accent! Fuken' eh' bro..sux bug tuts.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 28, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Well shit, that's true. I may have to hold off on looking at stock in Pampers and formula then.
> 
> (Gah! Gillette, Pampers, and Luvs, belong to Proctor & Gamble, not sure if I want to give money to a bunch of SJW's.)


I do I own stock


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 28, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Huggies is a far superior product anyway.


because they come in big boy size. No one wants to hear about your sexual fetish’s


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 28, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> because they come in big boy size. No one wants to hear about your sexual fetish’s


Takes one with experience to recognize the behavior in others...


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 28, 2020)

Well I’m very impressed with Kim Jong-un. He locked his border down over 60 years ago to protect against the virus. Very proactive.

He does look like he hoards food though.


----------



## CQB (Mar 28, 2020)

A bit of retro...to all the Sir Galahad crew. Mebbe wrong thread but no s'not.


----------



## Brill (Mar 28, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> The stimulus check won't be in the mail for Americans who owe child support
> 
> 
> Fuck ya!



Poor Hunter.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 28, 2020)

Tom Leher, still kicking at 92 years old.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 28, 2020)

digrar said:


> Apparently the Czechs were made aware before the purchase that the kits have little success in detecting early stage covid and shouldn't be used until after day 5 of symptoms.


Idk man.  These things were shipped all over the world, pretty much every country in Europe has these things.  What a random way to make money off people.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 28, 2020)

Looks like Canadian troops will be on the ground soon. 

Defence chief readies Canadian military for COVID-19 response


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 28, 2020)

This growing number of "comedy songs as public health messages" is quite easily one of my favorite things these past few days.

Here's a little piano ditty about quarantine(NSFW language).







And here's a deathcore song that's pretty much just the CDC guidelines on handwashing, social distancing, and when to self quarantine.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 28, 2020)

digrar said:


> Apparently the Czechs were made aware before the purchase that the kits have little success in detecting early stage covid and shouldn't be used until after day 5 of symptoms.


So, when time is of the essence regarding diagnosis and treatment, the Chinese send the proverbial slow boat?  I’m taking this with an entire shaker of salt, since this information comes from a Chinese media outlet. I doubt the CCP had no influence over this press release, and therefore will wait for a different source with more credibility to back it up. Until then, I will treat this as CCP propaganda.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 28, 2020)

Well...hope everyone is ready, recall is in effect.  EO to Order the Selected Reserve and Certain Members of the Individual Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty | The White House

GM, unlike Ford did not volunteer to produce ventilators, now GM is being ordered to build ventilators.  Memorandum on Order Under the Defense Production Act Regarding General Motors Company | The White House


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, you know those Test Kits Jack Ma sent the US...probably may as well throw those out.  China has sold millions of test kits and 80% are coming back with errors.  China Supplied Faulty Coronavirus Test Kits to Spain, Czech Republic


Yep, China is asshole. The world is finally starting to learn.

Gangam style remix.







Polar Bear said:


> I do I own stock


Nice, in 9-10 months you're gonna make a killing. Also, the company behind Huggies has been doing fairly well.


----------



## Brill (Mar 28, 2020)

@Devildoc 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243727020984619008


----------



## digrar (Mar 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> Jeez mate, that's not even a strong NZ accent! Fuken' eh' bro..sux bug tuts.



Most intelligible Kiwi I've ever heard. 



racing_kitty said:


> So, when time is of the essence regarding diagnosis and treatment, the Chinese send the proverbial slow boat?  I’m taking this with an entire shaker of salt, since this information comes from a Chinese media outlet. I doubt the CCP had no influence over this press release, and therefore will wait for a different source with more credibility to back it up. Until then, I will treat this as CCP propaganda.



The first story I saw on that was an English Czech piece, but I couldn't spy it when I went looking. 

I'm thinking if that's the test you've got and it's of some use, you send it out. As long as everyone understands the limitations of it and uses it accordingly.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 28, 2020)

Real shortages and chaos hasn't even started yet.  I fear for our country if things get actually bad.

-----

*A Bipartisan Boogaloo?*

"So far, especially here in America, people have come together in a way we’ve not seen in decades. A few malcontents doing things like hoarding and profiteering aside, most everyone seems to be remarkably onboard with the idea of helping out to reduce the overall burden. Congress, for once willing to put aside its usual petty squabbling with a minimum of face saving, passed a massive relief package. Things are scary, but it looks like the best of humanity is out to play.

So why, then, am I seeing so much talk about the boogaloo from both the Left and the Right?"


----------



## CQB (Mar 28, 2020)

The same is happening here, the opposition party passed the required economic package, adding come constructive advice & have now settled into what oppositions do.


----------



## digrar (Mar 28, 2020)

And the Greens are starting to come to life, being fuckheads as per normal.


----------



## Brill (Mar 28, 2020)

How did things get so bad in NYC? Oh...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243539189020401664


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 28, 2020)

digrar said:


> I'm thinking if that's the test you've got and it's of some use, you send it out. As long as everyone understands the limitations of it and uses it accordingly.


I’m more inclined to believe that the Chinese government said that to save face, as opposed to actually admitting their tests were defective. Again, I’d like outside proof.

I’ll do a Google search when I get home for the Czech news report, but I’m highly skeptical. The Chinese government could tell me the sky was blue and I’d look for an outside source. Their behavior at the beginning of the outbreak is why.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 28, 2020)

digrar said:


> And the Greens are starting to come to life, being fuckheads as per normal.


The Greens are absolute fuckknuckles and need their balls run through a Ninja blender.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 28, 2020)

lindy said:


> @Devildoc
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243727020984619008



So we homeschool, right? Aside from not going to the mall, my family has not been impacted by this at all.

But come on, really?  That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. The parents can take a little bit of responsibility and help their kids become better people and marginally educated, that's on them. In fact, I think we'll see transformation of education on the other side of this.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 28, 2020)

You’ll need a translator, but this article further proves my point about not trusting anything even remotely related to the CCP and Covid-19.

Dutch government recalls Chinese made masks for inadequate protection.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So we homeschool, right? Aside from not going to the mall, my family has not been impacted by this at all.
> 
> But come on, really?  That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. The parents can take a little bit of responsibility and help their kids become better people and marginally educated, that's on them. In fact, I think we'll see transformation of education on the other side of this.


My son's "Catholic" home school curriculum is better then the brick and mortar Catholic School he was attending.
They are pissed because the indoctrination has been impacted, and they may have lost a generation of robots.


----------



## Gordus (Mar 28, 2020)

Lmao. This is sad.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243887606569590784


----------



## Airbud (Mar 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So we homeschool, right? Aside from not going to the mall, my family has not been impacted by this at all.
> 
> But come on, really?  That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. The parents can take a little bit of responsibility and help their kids become better people and marginally educated, that's on them. In fact, I think we'll see transformation of education on the other side of this.



Agreed. As someone who was homeschooled (K-12), and has taken a number of online college classes, I think it can potentially be a lot more efficient than a traditional classroom environment.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 28, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> My son's "Catholic" home school curriculum is better then the brick and mortar Catholic School he was attending.
> They are pissed because the indoctrination has been impacted, and they may have lost a generation of robots.



This event is going to slay a lot of sacred cows, no pun intended, in a whole lot of professions.  I predict you're going to see a lot of people in public education lash out in anger on the other side of this because they will be threatened.


----------



## CQB (Mar 28, 2020)

digrar said:


> And the Greens are starting to come to life, being fuckheads as per normal.


They are popcorn worthy, the beer virus is now a gender issue.


----------



## CQB (Mar 28, 2020)

...oh & stand by for more mirth from Kristina Keneally.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> This event is going to slay a lot of sacred cows, no pun intended, in a whole lot of professions.  I predict you're going to see a lot of people in public education lash out in anger on the other side of this because they will be threatened.



Some of them should be, especially in NC.  Not all - there are a LOT of great teachers out there doing some great work - I think it's fair to say that describes the majority.  But there are also more than a handful who wouldn't be employed if not for tenure.

And the whole "homeschooling will set children back" would be laughable if it weren't so earnest.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 28, 2020)

Gordus said:


> Lmao. This is sad.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1243887606569590784


I don't know if that's real but if it is, fuck that guy.  Seriously.


----------



## Bypass (Mar 28, 2020)




----------



## SaintKP (Mar 28, 2020)

Rhode Island Police to Hunt Down New Yorkers Seeking Refuge

So I've been trying to think of something meaningful to say for the past week or so in regards to the potential of civil unrest or 'the boogaloo' and generate discussion on the probability, cause and effect, etc aside from shitposting and memes. Of something like that happening. While I haven't been able to really form something to say just because I don't feel as if we're truly under a police state and still have a ways to go. 

This article and what RI is doing really raises red flags for me. I'm pretty flexible on my stance of government/state intervention of certain things, the world isn't black and white and needs differing solutions for differing problems. 

But when you start getting the Police doing checkpoints on main interstates, and the NG to conduct house to house searches to find people who are traveling out of state. You're about a dance and a jig from starting quarantine camps and forceful relocation. In my eyes atleast.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 28, 2020)

It's called "jumping the shark." We crossed that line a little while ago, but we -- as a nation -- are doing our best to set new standards for it now.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> This event is going to slay a lot of sacred cows, no pun intended, in a whole lot of professions.  I predict you're going to see a lot of people in public education lash out in anger on the other side of this because they will be threatened.



We were just in the middle of a teacher's strike, I think technically, it's still ongoing.  One of the major issues was the government wanted mandatory 4 credits for high school graduation done through eLearning.  The unions freaked out and just before this the government caved and it was 2 credits with the option to not do them.  Now everything is either a standstill or moved online.


----------



## AWP (Mar 28, 2020)

If homeschooling proves to be more viable than traditional schooling, I don't think teachers will be as upset as their union reps and administrators. Everyone who signed off on the No Child Left Behind/ standardized test fiasco will be upset. That's the failure, the system driving teachers to fail because teachers aren't allowed to teach these days.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 28, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Takes one with experience to recognize the behavior in others...


I use Depends Numbnuts


----------



## Kraut783 (Mar 28, 2020)

NY gov not happy with Rhode Island...

“Mr Cuomo also said he would sue nearby Rhode Island if the authorities there continued targeting New Yorkers and threatening to punish them for failing to quarantine”


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 28, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> NY gov not happy with Rhode Island...
> 
> “Mr Cuomo also said he would sue nearby Rhode Island if the authorities there continued targeting New Yorkers and threatening to punish them for failing to quarantine”


NY is legit going to infect the whole eastern seaboard.  just cut the metros and ground the planes...do what china did. I'm only half serious.


----------



## Jaknight (Mar 29, 2020)

Cuomo: New York Quarantine Would Be ‘Federal Declaration Of War’


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 29, 2020)

When Florida Man has had enough of your shit... 

Checkpoints set up along FL/AL border to prevent spread of Covid-19 in Sunshine State


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 29, 2020)

Tomorrow my department is going 70/30, 30% of our department can be at work, and 70% has to work from home, we will rotate people. Me, because of what I'm doing, I get to be at work every single day. #jobsecurity


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 29, 2020)

This isn't good. 


8 strains of the coronavirus are circling the globe. Here's what clues they're giving scientists.


----------



## Brill (Mar 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> This event is going to slay a lot of sacred cows, no pun intended, in a whole lot of professions.  I predict you're going to see a lot of people in public education lash out in anger on the other side of this because they will be threatened.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244097004432756738


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 29, 2020)

lindy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244097004432756738



I.  Love.  This.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 29, 2020)

Fauci had an interesting morning, apparently his revised predictions are up to 200k dead in the US with 100K on the low side. I saw that online, did not see the interview, I don't know over what time frame he's thinking about.


----------



## Brill (Mar 29, 2020)

Not far from Columbus.

Medal of Honor recipient Bennie Adkins stricken with coronavirus



> Command Sergeant Major Bennie G. Adkins distinguished himself during 38 hours of close-combat fighting against enemy forces on March 9 to 12, 1966. At that time, then-Sergeant First Class Adkins was serving as an Intelligence Sergeant with Detachment A-102, 5th Special Forces Group, 1st Special Forces at Camp "A Shau", in the Republic of Vietnam.



Command Sergeant Major Bennie G. Adkins | Medal of Honor Recipient | The United States Army


----------



## Brill (Mar 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Fauci had an interesting morning, apparently his revised predictions are up to 200k dead in the US with 100K on the low side. I saw that online, did not see the interview, I don't know over what time frame he's thinking about.



I gotcha:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244267871397707776


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 29, 2020)

OK everyone, put on your tinfoil suits...  Some of this is plausible.

Saw this on FaceCrap.


> Facts?  Or  just a prediction?? (part-1)
> 
> The real shit is here 💯
> 
> ...


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> OK everyone, put on your tinfoil suits...  Some of this is plausible.
> 
> Saw this on FaceCrap.


Isn't that the definition of a conspiracy theory, weave the plausible through the ridiculous?

LL


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 29, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Isn't that the definition of a conspiracy theory, weave the plausible through the ridiculous?
> 
> LL



These day's given how ridiculous reality has become, this doesn't seem so ridiculous.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This isn't good.
> 
> 
> 8 strains of the coronavirus are circling the globe. Here's what clues they're giving scientists.


Pretty good write up. Thanks!


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> These day's given how ridiculous reality has become, this doesn't seem so ridiculous.


Except that most of what's stated is not true/accurate.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Fauci had an interesting morning, apparently his revised predictions are up to 200k dead in the US with 100K on the low side. I saw that online, did not see the interview, I don't know over what time frame he's thinking about.


Yeah, with the exception of total actual deaths, the number counts and forecasts have become virtually meaningless.  No one is providing the needed context to any of them and, almost worse, no one is asking.  They're just just excepting and reporting numbers.

We don't have enough tests nor are we reporting or accounting for recoveries, so total is of no real value.  Total actual deaths is the only traceable, quantifiable metric. However, total deaths when reported as a forecast with no timeline is problematic.

Media is responsible for this.  They simply need to do their job and ask a few questions before reporting/publishing this garbage.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

lindy said:


> I gotcha:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244267871397707776


If we have millions of cases...what is China's real numbers?  Extrapolate their actual response, and then backdate patient zero [actua] to likely being infected and walking around in October.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 29, 2020)

From Tech Startups’s website: Results from second French study shows that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin help treat Covid-19. This study had 80 patients that did test positive for the virus, while the first one only had 20 patients. It looks like there were similar results; the second study only saw one patient die after receiving treatment. He was 86yo, and the disease was too far advanced in his body.


----------



## GOTWA (Mar 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Media is responsible for this.  They simply need to do their job and ask a few questions before reporting/publishing this garbage.



Or stop stoking fears with wild ass headlines. 

BREAKING NEWS: Corona cases DOUBLE in one day, from one to two!


----------



## Brill (Mar 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Except that most of what's stated is not true/accurate.



Ipso facto, ridiculous!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> OK everyone, put on your tinfoil suits...  Some of this is plausible.
> 
> Saw this on FaceCrap.


Honestly, this is almost the perfect scenario for Red Dawn to happen.  Over here waiting for the Chinese Nukes to be launched.  Heck, I'm surprised there hasn't been a major terrorist attack during this period.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 29, 2020)

Oh no!  Not Hooters!!

;)

*COVID Casualty:  Hooters Switches To Delivery-Only; Changes Name To “Knockers”* 



> We wish them the breast of luck.


----------



## Gordus (Mar 29, 2020)

The Chinese economy is also suffering from the pandemic and it is getting worse. I doubt any of this was some deliberate evil scheme.  Are some people trying to use this situation to their advantige ? Perhaps. But it is what it is. A disease outbreak. One of many in human history.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Mar 29, 2020)

CQB said:


> The drawbridge goes up, for now
> 
> ttps://www.afr.com/politics/federal/china-spree-sparks-firb-crackdown-20200329-p54exo



text only, no paywall: China spree sparks FIRB crackdown


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

You know that whole New York should be quarantined thing...yeah it's starting to look better by the day: New York city man infected with COVID-19 stopped at Jacksonville International Airport


----------



## CQB (Mar 29, 2020)

I don’t know what the NY mayor is on about, but lockdown makes sense.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 29, 2020)

*Cliff Notes for the COVID-19 CARE ACT and What It Means for You*

from the article:

"If you’re an American and have a job, this impacts you. If you’re a small business owner and have employees, this impacts you. If you rent or own a home, this impacts you. If you’re a real estate investor, this impacts you. If you just lost your job and are left wondering what’s next and what the road ahead looks like, this impacts you. If you think privacy is important and it’s okay for the government to strip it all away, this impacts you. If you thought this 6 trillion dollar bailout was going to lift your 401k and return your life back to normal, you are sorely mistaken.

Here are my cliff notes for the 880 page COVID-19 CARE ACT. That’s 2300 pages of this garbage since last Thursday. 1400+ pages in Pelosi’s Proposed House Bill and now this 880 page Presidential approved one… That’s enough for me!"


----------



## Dame (Mar 29, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> *Cliff Notes for the COVID-19 CARE ACT and What It Means for You*
> from the article:
> "If you’re an American and have a job, this impacts you. If you’re a small business owner and have employees, this impacts you. If you rent or own a home, this impacts you. If you’re a real estate investor, this impacts you. If you just lost your job and are left wondering what’s next and what the road ahead looks like, this impacts you. If you think privacy is important and it’s okay for the government to strip it all away, this impacts you. If you thought this 6 trillion dollar bailout was going to lift your 401k and return your life back to normal, you are sorely mistaken.



Raises Hand: "Um, I need a Cliff's Notes of the Cliff's Notes."


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> OK everyone, put on your tinfoil suits...  Some of this is plausible.
> 
> Saw this on FaceCrap.



Oi vey. Firstly, it did reach Beijing and Shanghai (and is probably still there). Secondly, their economy has been affected- the port of Shanghai, for example, is (or was) backed up and nothing was going in or out because there weren't any workers. Thirdly, their stockmarket (probably) didn't crash because the govt there controls it to the extent that stocks can only go up or down a certain value in a day before a trading halt is put in on them.

I don't know who wrote that but it looks like the lack of hockey is affecting all of us in different ways.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 29, 2020)

Some serious shit here...but an opportunity for bourbon aficionados...
Coronavirus Pandemic: Popular Arvada Bar Sells Rarest Bourbon To Pay Employees


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Some serious shit here...but an opportunity for bourbon aficionados...
> Coronavirus Pandemic: Popular Arvada Bar Sells Rarest Bourbon To Pay Employees


That was their "rarest" bourbon?  It's at a Total Wine here for $30 less! Jim Beam Distiller's Masterpiece

There's a bar in Florida Selling a Van Winkle 25.  There are very few Van Winkle 25s out there as it was a single year run.


----------



## Dame (Mar 29, 2020)

Aaaaannnnd, we're out for April.
Trump to extend coronavirus distancing guidelines until April 30


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

Dame said:


> Aaaaannnnd, we're out for April.
> Trump to extend coronavirus distancing guidelines until April 30


Jesus ain't rising this year.  Seems the POTUS is making data based decisions as things keep changing.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Jesus ain't rising this year.  Seems the POTUS is making data based decisions as things keep changing.



I haven't been shy about my disdain for how flippantly he treated this as it was first starting out, but I'll be the first to say I'm glad to see he seems to be taking the advice of his response team and adjusting guidelines accordingly.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I haven't been shy about my disdain for how flippantly he treated this as it was first starting out, but I'll be the first to say I'm glad to see he seems to be taking the advice of his response team and adjusting guidelines accordingly.


I don't think he was treating any of this with disdain.  I think Easter is a major religious Holiday that fell on their target date and he was doing his job to give people hope.  He's been pretty steady through most of this especially since Fauci and Birx became de-facto aides to the president.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 29, 2020)

From an ER physician, former medical director of mine, shared this...


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 29, 2020)




----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 29, 2020)

900 NYPD members will be positive for coronavirus by Monday, commissioner says

Nearly 10% of the workforce called out sick on Friday. It's only going to get worse. This is why guns matter. I'm not worried about a tyrant Government, I'm worried about my family and how long it will take for police to respond.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 29, 2020)

Covid vs. US Daily Average Cause of Death


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 29, 2020)

And finally, for the tin hat wearers. This song was produced in 2013. Skip ahead to the 1 minute mark.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> 900 NYPD members will be positive for coronavirus by Monday, commissioner says
> 
> Nearly 10% of the workforce called out sick on Friday. It's only going to get worse. This is why guns matter. I'm not worried about a tyrant Government, I'm worried about my family and how long it will take for police to respond.


Time to seal it off like that shitty Kurt Russell movie from the 80's.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Time to seal it off like that shitty Kurt Russell movie from the 80's.



That was discussed. And people left. Taking the virus with them. The chance of a surprise quarantine is gone. Even now, I'm willing to bet that more lower income people in NYC will be infected than wealthy. That's solely an opinion for which I don't have data on, but historically those tend to be the hardest hit.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> That was discussed. And people left. Taking the virus with them. The chance of a surprise quarantine is gone. Even now, I'm willing to bet that more lower income people in NYC will be infected than wealthy. That's solely an opinion for which I don't have data on, but historically those tend to be the hardest hit.



Many of the wealthy have already left for their second homes in Rhode Island, Connecticut, the Catskills, and Florida.  It's eerily similar to what the rich did throughout history, including back during the Peloponnesian Wars.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> That was discussed. And people left. Taking the virus with them. The chance of a surprise quarantine is gone. Even now, I'm willing to bet that more lower income people in NYC will be infected than wealthy. That's solely an opinion for which I don't have data on, but historically those tend to be the hardest hit.


The argument from a few experts on the topic is to just open the spigot, let people largely get back to normal, while taking a more focused, tactical approach in protecting those at high risk.  To me, there is a fair amount of sense in the approach.


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 29, 2020)

I am no where near enough educated in the medical field to know what thst would look like. I get what you are getting at, as I think back to being a child and my parents taking me purposefully to a neighbor's house because they had the chickenpox and just wanted me to catch it to get it over with, but it seems to be playing Russian roulette and we lack hospital bed space to treat the potential fall out from that.


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The argument from a few experts on the topic is to just open the spigot, let people largely get back to normal, while taking a more focused, tactical approach in protecting those at high risk.  To me, there is a fair amount of sense in the approach.



The interesting thing is that different countries and, in the US, different states and cities seem to be taking different approaches. After this is all over it will provide great data for what one actually turned out to be the best method and why.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 29, 2020)

My son's immediate supervisor has it.  My son was swabbed today.

Fuck China.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 29, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> My son's immediate supervisor has it.  My son was swabbed today.
> 
> Fuck China.



I'll certainly be praying for him, Brother....


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I am no where near enough educated in the medical field to know what thst would look like. I get what you are getting at, as I think back to being a child and my parents taking me purposefully to a neighbor's house because they had the chickenpox and just wanted me to catch it to get it over with, but it seems to be playing Russian roulette and we lack hospital bed space to treat the potential fall out from that.


It's a bit more involved than I made it out to be.  Russian roulette is overstating it. They're suggesting we gather more info to make intelligent, data driven decisions about who and when people can return to work.

By understanding the risk differentials, which appear to be pretty large, those at low risk could return and productivity could resume while more focused care is made to protect those at high risk. They don't quite have enough data yet to make such a call, although they may be getting there.  As an example, one interview I saw stated the current info from Italy, with 10K+ deaths, indicates only 1.2% of deaths occurred in people under 50 yrs , only 2.1% occurred without some major prior underlying health issue, and only a fraction of that were both healthy and under 50.

If that continues to prove out, does it make sense to put civilization on hold, potentially for years, where many of those at risk could potentially die from other factors in the meantime?

That's kind of the discussion.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

Another story that, while unconfirmed, adds more fuel to the argument that all these numbers being reported from around the world are suspect:
Tokyo's infection spike after Olympic delay sparks questions

But, the silver lining remains the idea that the spread of the virus is vastly under-reported.  As a result, actual number infected is probably much higher.  This is good news because while infection rate is higher, this means death rate is even lower.  This is because actual deaths are tracked much closer and more difficult to fudge.  In turn, further evidence that this remains mild for most.  

Why isn't the media reporting on recovery cases?


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> It's a bit more involved than I made it out to be.  Russian roulette is overstating it. They're suggesting we gather more info to make intelligent, data driven decisions about who and when people can return to work.
> 
> By understanding the risk differentials, which appear to be pretty large, those at low risk could return and productivity could resume while more focused care is made to protect those at high risk. They don't quite have enough data yet to make such a call, although they may be getting there.  As an example, one interview I saw stated the current info from Italy, with 10K+ deaths, indicates only 1.2% of deaths occurred in people under 50 yrs , only 2.1% occurred without some major prior underlying health issue, and only a fraction of that were both healthy and under 50.
> 
> ...



See, just looking at death statistics makes it seem as if this is really no big deal, and we should reopen everything.

But we also have to take into account just how debilitating this virus can be. When A gold medal swimmer says the virus is so rough he can barely walk without being exhausted, maybe that's the sort of thing we should be extrapolating.

Sure, its sucks that most businesses are taking hits right now; but how much more utterly chaotic would it be if a business suddenly has to shut down because half their staff is bedridden. Let that happen on a large enough scale, and isn't that much more likely to create economic chaos?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> See, just looking at death statistics makes it seem as if this is really no big deal, and we should reopen everything.
> 
> But we also have to take into account just how debilitating this virus can be. When A gold medal swimmer says the virus is so rough he can barely walk without being exhausted, maybe that's the sort of thing we should be extrapolating.
> 
> Sure, its sucks that most businesses are taking hits right now; but how much more utterly chaotic would it be if a business suddenly has to shut down because half their staff is bedridden. Let that happen on a large enough scale, and isn't that much more likely to create economic chaos?


I don't think the suggestion is to reopen "everthing"; ex. significant protections need to be in place for assisted living centers, etc.

Caution is needed when looking at cases anecdotally.  The virus may be debilitating for a period of time, but by most accounts, it's mild and many recover within a week or two.  Did you hear about Tom Hanks and Eita Wilson returning to LA from Aus the other day? Me neither.  But I sure as shit heard all about it when they announced to the world they'd contracted it.

As I've said before, that's not to suggest this novel isn't serious.  It is.  However, that also doesn't mean a thoughtful, risk based approach developed from quantitative data can't be effective. It's important to explore because the secondary effects of a prolonged economic shutdown are not trivial.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> See, just looking at death statistics makes it seem as if this is really no big deal, and we should reopen everything.
> 
> But we also have to take into account just how debilitating this virus can be. When A gold medal swimmer says the virus is so rough he can barely walk without being exhausted, maybe that's the sort of thing we should be extrapolating.
> 
> Sure, its sucks that most businesses are taking hits right now; but how much more utterly chaotic would it be if a business suddenly has to shut down because half their staff is bedridden. Let that happen on a large enough scale, and isn't that much more likely to create economic chaos?


And it also did nothing to any of the NBA players that were infected.  So, what should we be extrapolating?  That people react very differently to the virus.

Does van der Burgh have underlying conditions?


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 30, 2020)

Grunt said:


> I'll certainly be praying for him, Brother....


Thanks.


----------



## Scarecrow (Mar 30, 2020)

As far as learning from your mistakes goes...China has reopened the Wuhan wet markets and bats are still being sold.

Fuck sake.

Chinese wet markets still operating


----------



## Brill (Mar 30, 2020)

Dame said:


> Raises Hand: "Um, I need a Cliff's Notes of the Cliff's Notes."



Other people spent other people’s money on other people. Neither quality nor cost were considered (paraphrased of Milton Freedman).


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't think the suggestion is to reopen "everthing"; ex. significant protections need to be in place for assisted living centers, etc.
> 
> *Caution is needed when looking at cases anecdotally.  *The virus may be debilitating for a period of time, but by most accounts, it's mild and many recover within a week or two.  Did you hear about Tom Hanks and Eita Wilson returning to LA from Aus the other day? Me neither.  But I sure as shit heard all about it when they announced to the world they'd contracted it.
> 
> As I've said before, that's not to suggest this novel isn't serious.  It is.  However, that also doesn't mean a thoughtful, risk based approach developed from quantitative data can't be effective. It's important to explore because the secondary effects of a prolonged economic shutdown are not trivial.



Yes.  The two people I know, personally, with it are two physicians, one a MICU doc, the other, a gas-passer.  The former thought it was just his allergies until he noticed a low-grade fever, and was otherwise fine.  What did he do when he was quarantined at home?  Yard work.

The latter admits he should have been admitted, but since he is a doc, took his chances at home.  He did take an O2 tank home for his use (PRN).  He can't walk from here to there without his sats dropping to the mid-80s, and has horrible wheezing and crackles.  He is rebounding, but says "it's one step forward, two steps back."

So, two totally ends of the spectrum.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> And it also did nothing to any of the NBA players that were infected.  So, what should we be extrapolating?  That people react very differently to the virus.
> 
> Does van der Burgh have underlying conditions?



No on the underlying conditions; I highlight that to show how someone who meets almost none of the criteria for what you'd expect a "severe" case to be was waylaid by it.

But as @Devildoc alluded to, this hits many people in different ways. We don't currently have any good idea of what it entails to lump someone into a population in which this would be a low grade fever.

Does that mean only people under the age of 30 with O blood types go back to work? Does this mean we just say screw it like the Lt. Gov of Texas said and have old people go back to work to "save the economy"?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> No on the underlying conditions; I highlight that to show how someone who meets almost none of the criteria for what you'd expect a "severe" case to be was waylaid by it.
> 
> But as @Devildoc alluded to, this hits many people in different ways. We don't currently have any good idea of what it entails to lump someone into a population in which this would be a low grade fever.
> 
> Does that mean only people under the age of 30 with O blood types go back to work? Does this mean we just say screw it like the Lt. Gov of Texas said and have old people go back to work to "save the economy"?


Taking a bit of a myopic view for a moment, MN has 9 deaths as of Sunday.

7 of those 9 were people in "congregate" care facilities, like assisted living.

Four of those deaths occurred yesterday.  One was in their 50s with underlying health conditions. The other three people were in their 80s and 90s, with other health conditions unknown.

Before Sunday, the 5 previous deaths all involved people in their 70s and 80s with underlying health problems.

While this is a narrow snapshot, it's critical information that starts to tell a story.


----------



## Brill (Mar 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Does that mean only people under the age of 30 with O blood types go back to work?



Medics gotta eat, shit, replace worn out X, repair vehicles, etc, so they can treat others so, yes: have low risk get back to work so medics can do the heavy lifting.

“Save the economy” is a talking point. We need to get back to work to enable the medical professionals to focus on their work, which is saving US.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 30, 2020)

lindy said:


> Medics gotta eat, shit, replace worn out X, repair vehicles, etc, so they can treat others so, yes: have low risk get back to work so medics can do the heavy lifting.
> 
> “Save the economy” is a talking point. We need to get back to work to enable the medical professionals to focus on their work, which is saving US.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 30, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> As far as learning from your mistakes goes...China has reopened the Wuhan wet markets and bats are still being sold.
> 
> Fuck sake.
> 
> Chinese wet markets still operating


Hate cuz, fuck China.


----------



## Cookie_ (Mar 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Taking a bit of a myopic view for a moment, MN has 9 deaths as of Sunday.
> 
> 7 of those 9 were people in "congregate" care facilities, like assisted living.
> 
> ...



We're looking at different data metrics for this. I understand the death rate is low (comparatively) for those ~50ish and under. 

I'm more concerned about possible increase in hospitalization rate. That is what would truly cripple some of our systems.
From a CDC report on the 16th


> Among 508 (12%) patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged ≥85 years, start highlight36%end highlight were aged 65–84 years, 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, and 20% were aged 20–44 years. Less than 1% of hospitalizations were among persons aged ≤19 years (Figure 2). The percentage of persons hospitalized increased with age, from 2%–3% among persons aged start highlight≤19end highlight years, to ≥31% among adults aged ≥85 years.



Assuming most workers fall between that 20-54 category, that's about 38% of hospitalized cases.

Obviously, there's probably a bunch of underlying causes that got them there; that's probably a given. 

The thing is, "going back to work" for a lot of people is a very big unknown right now. What do we determine to be a risk in which someone should stay home?

Because sure, if your immunocompromised you probably shouldn't go back to work, but diabetes, obesity, and hypertension are all seeming to be risk factors as well. If we take those are serious risks, roughly half the US population should be "protected".


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 30, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> As far as learning from your mistakes goes...China has reopened the Wuhan wet markets and bats are still being sold.
> 
> Fuck sake.
> 
> Chinese wet markets still operating



Did we really expect anything different?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> We're looking at different data metrics for this. I understand the death rate is low (comparatively) for those ~50ish and under.
> 
> I'm more concerned about possible increase in hospitalization rate. That is what would truly cripple some of our systems.
> From a CDC report on the 16th
> ...


Again, a bit anecdotal but here's numbers from MN which, as of yesterday, has 503 confirmed cases.

Details about the 503:

* 252 no longer need to be isolated (I assume this means recovered?)

* at least 21 are residents of long-term care facilities and 11 are health care workers who work in those centers

* 39 current cases require hospitalization.  Of those:
               - 16 were in ICU with treatment for respiratory illness
               - 23 required non-intensive hospital care

Again, all of this starts to tell a story.  It provides perspective and context to the numbers.  There will always be exceptions and those need to be better understood.  Of course, none of this may be of comfort for those that fall into those high-risk categories.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 30, 2020)

With the update of Federal Guidance, the State of Arizona has closed all schools thru the remainder of the academic year.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 30, 2020)

Small part of China's misinformation campaign. Initial video is a Chicom gal shit talking the US and if you scroll down there is video of a Chicom wiping his shoes with PPE.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244621247138291717
Even the most woke of folks, like Trudeau, are waking up to how shitty China is.
Trudeau vows 'no corners cut' in accepting masks, other supplies from China


----------



## Dame (Mar 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Small part of China's misinformation campaign. Initial video is a Chicom gal shit talking the US and if you scroll down there is video of a Chicom wiping his shoes with PPE.
> Even the most woke of folks, like Trudeau, are waking up to how shitty China is.
> Trudeau vows 'no corners cut' in accepting masks, other supplies from China



Hey, China Rose! We've heard this song before bitch. Facts are, communist China delivered hundreds of thousands of testing kits and masks to nations around the world, which do not work.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 30, 2020)

Personally, I would like to punch her in the throat until it gets mushy....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 30, 2020)

Dame said:


> Hey, China Rose! We've heard this song before bitch. Facts are, communist China delivered hundreds of thousands of testing kits and masks to nations around the world, which do not work.


That wasn't even one of the bad exampes either. I saw a post of the 'masks' China sent to Lombardi and was kinda horrified. It was a thin rectangular piece of folded material, with slits to poke your ears through.



Grunt said:


> Personally, I would like to punch her in the throat until it gets mushy....


Dude!!!


----------



## Dvr55119 (Mar 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> That wasn't even one of the bad exampes either. I saw a post of the 'masks' China sent to Lombardi and was kinda horrified. It was a thin rectangular piece of folded material, with slits to poke your ears through.
> 
> 
> Dude!!!
> View attachment 32858



I don’t know if you are being sarcastic....Those are called surgical masks. We wear them in patients rooms who are on droplet precautions, or are neutropenic/immunocompromised. They are important in reducing the spread of diseases that are not aerosolized. They are used significantly more frequently than N-95 masks. They are a vital piece of equipment in the hospital.

There are more than just COVID patients in the hospitals. Wearing a surgical mask may help prevent the spread of airborne disease processes from healthcare providers who are asymptomatic to others who are at high risk. The hospital I work in is mandating the wear of these masks beginning tomorrow, however the supply is low. 200k masks isn’t too bad.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 30, 2020)

Canada ready to deploy troops when needed. 

24,000 Canadian military members ready to respond — if asked — to COVID-19 crisis


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

And so another viscous cycle begins:
Cuomo begs healthcare workers from other states to 'come and help us'

He wants a million healthcare workers.  If all these health workers flock to NY, what happens:

A. When cases escalate back in the towns they came from?  If we listen to experts, this could happen in a few weeks.  Who will provide care there?

B. When those workers become infected and/or carry the virus back with them?

Tough questions.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 30, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I don’t know if you are being sarcastic....Those are called surgical masks. We wear them in patients rooms who are on droplet precautions, or are neutropenic/immunocompromised. They are important in reducing the spread of diseases that are not aerosolized. They are used significantly more frequently than N-95 masks. They are a vital piece of equipment in the hospital.
> 
> There are more than just COVID patients in the hospitals. Wearing a surgical mask may help prevent the spread of airborne disease processes from healthcare providers who are asymptomatic to others who are at high risk. The hospital I work in is mandating the wear of these masks beginning tomorrow, however the supply is low. 200k masks isn’t too bad.


These weren't surgical masks. These were thin chintzy pieces of dryer looking cloth that were being passed of as surgical masks. I'll find the picture and post it. Lets just say the people who received those supplies were less than thrilled. The tweet thing was in Italian and did not sound happy.

Add On: Found the picture!


----------



## Dvr55119 (Mar 30, 2020)

View attachment 32861


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 30, 2020)

People, we don't have as many cases as you do because there's less people per square mile, so it's easier to distance yourself. But you better be practicing self-quarantining when you do arrive. And make sure you bring all your supplies with you too, don't be hitting up the stores to buy it here and spread your nasty germs!

LL

Vacation rental data suggests visitors seeking shelter in Montana


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 30, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> People, we don't have as many cases as you do because there's less people per square mile, so it's easier to distance yourself. But you better be practicing self-quarantining when you do arrive. And make sure you bring all your supplies with you too, don't be hitting up the stores to buy it here and spread your nasty germs!
> 
> LL
> 
> Vacation rental data suggests visitors seeking shelter in Montana


Fine.

Besides, I heard there was a huge outbreak in Kalispell/Whitefish...bodies piled everywhere.  People should stay away.  It's a horrible area, anyway.  Nothing to see there.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 30, 2020)

Not to many political leaders get hands on. 

EXCLUSIVE: Doug Ford personally delivered 90,000 surgical masks to Ontarians in his truck


----------



## Brill (Mar 30, 2020)

I wonder how this will be enforced. @BloodStripe 

https://www.governor.virginia.gov/m...Order-Due-to-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 30, 2020)

lindy said:


> I wonder how this will be enforced. @BloodStripe
> 
> https://www.governor.virginia.gov/m...Order-Due-to-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf



The beaches were packed this past weekend. I blame them for this. As for enforcing this, I believe it will only be enforced on public beaches, though if you see me in yoga pants on the beach it's because I'm strictly working out.


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canada ready to deploy troops when needed.
> 
> 24,000 Canadian military members ready to respond — if asked — to COVID-19 crisis


So Canada has to ask Canada for Military assistance.
How polite.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 30, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> So Canada has to ask Canada for Military assistance.
> How polite.



They've all been napping, it's only polite...


----------



## LibraryLady (Mar 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> They've all been napping, it's only polite...


Personally, I think mandatory naps for every human/person/being should be instituted...

LL


----------



## Dame (Mar 30, 2020)

No shock to anyone here, but it looks like the government has been bribing residents in Wuhan to keep quiet about the actual numbers.



> Wuhan residents said the government was paying families 3,000 yuan for “funeral allowances” in exchange for silence.



Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’


----------



## CQB (Mar 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Small part of China's misinformation campaign. Initial video is a Chicom gal shit talking the US and if you scroll down there is video of a Chicom wiping his shoes with PPE.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244621247138291717
> Even the most woke of folks, like Trudeau, are waking up to how shitty China is.
> Trudeau vows 'no corners cut' in accepting masks, other supplies from China


Not helping us sweetie, even though we’re part of Asia. Our Foreign Investment Review Board set a low bar in dollar terms so a foreign entity could buy into critical infrastructure here. The bar as of yesterday is  now zero. I guess the PRC will have to look elsewhere.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 30, 2020)

And then there's this. 

Suspected SARS virus and flu samples found in luggage: FBI report describes China's 'biosecurity risk'


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 30, 2020)

CQB said:


> Not helping us sweetie, even though we’re part of Asia. Our Foreign Investment Review Board set a low bar in dollar terms so a foreign entity could buy into critical infrastructure here. The bar as of yesterday is  now zero. I guess the PRC will have to look elsewhere.


Wait a sec, does that mean that Chicom investment into Australia is verboten now? What about the investments they already made? From what little I understand, China has sunk boatloads of cash into Australia's (and many other countries ) real estate and critical infrastructure. Cause I'm gonna roflmao if China gets kicked outta the land of Vegemite and drop bears.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 30, 2020)

By Order of The Peaky, Fucking, Blinder's!


----------



## CQB (Mar 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Wait a sec, does that mean that Chicom investment into Australia is verboten now? What about the investments they already made? From what little I understand, China has sunk boatloads of cash into Australia's (and many other countries ) real estate and critical infrastructure. Cause I'm gonna roflmao if China gets kicked outta the land of Vegemite and drop bears.


Sounds like it. I think the final straw was a PRC global outfit called the Greenland Property Group got the call from head office to stop what they’re doing & start buying gowns, masks, sanitisers & whatever else & shipping the goods home. Saviours of the world, be fucked.

Angry China siphons medical supplies then shuts border - MacroBusiness


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 30, 2020)

The Marine Corps announced today that no new recruits will be shipping to boot camp.


----------



## digrar (Mar 30, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Wait a sec, does that mean that Chicom investment into Australia is verboten now? What about the investments they already made? From what little I understand, China has sunk boatloads of cash into Australia's (and many other countries ) real estate and critical infrastructure. Cause I'm gonna roflmao if China gets kicked outta the land of Vegemite and drop bears.



I don't think there is any talk of removing assets, this is just a preemptive strike to stop the wholesale purchase of any vulnerable assets that are in an artificial slump. 
 As it is I've seen some large agricultural properties coming up for sale which have only recently been bought by Chinese Investors. A few years of drought, a risky fire season and a tits up economy has them getting out and consolidating their main business holdings back at home.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 30, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> The Marine Corps announced today that no new recruits will be shipping to boot camp.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 30, 2020)

CQB said:


> Sounds like it. I think the final straw was a PRC global outfit called the Greenland Property Group got the call from head office to stop what they’re doing & start buying gowns, masks, sanitisers & whatever else & shipping the good home. Saviours of the world, be fucked.
> 
> Angry China siphons medical supplies then shuts border - MacroBusiness


Those motherfuckers. I hope you guys pull through, cause that's a shitty doublecross the Chicoms pulled off.


digrar said:


> I don't think there is any talk of removing assets, this is just a preemptive strike to stop the wholesale purchase of any vulnerable assets that are in an artificial slump.
> As it is I've seen some large agricultural properties coming up for sale which have only recently been bought by Chinese Investors. A few years of drought, a risky fire season and a tits up economy has them getting out and consolidating their main business holdings back at home.


Good, I hope the Chicoms sell for a loss. The fact that the Chicoms have spread and metastasized as a global owners of real estate and critical infrastructure is an embarrassment to the world. 

Blows my mind we've allowed our ideological enemies so much leeway.


----------



## AWP (Mar 31, 2020)

Meanwhile in Dubai...

Coronavirus: Dubai district placed in lockdown for two weeks as clean-up drive is stepped up



> One of Dubai's oldest districts has been placed in lockdown for two weeks to aid efforts to contain the spread of coronavirus.
> 
> Roads leading to Al Ras, in Deira, will be sealed off and metros will not stop in the area from Tuesday to allow for an ongoing sterilisation programme to be stepped up.
> 
> ...



Al Ras is home to Dubai's gold Souk. If you look it up on Google maps it is in the heart of Dubai.


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 31, 2020)

In general, Americans have a short attention span and get bored with "news" and things fairly quickly. 

We've really only been dealing with COVID-19 for a few weeks. Another thread got me thinking, as the virus continues, etc. and the weather gets warmer, I wonder how much longer it will be before people really tire of it (hearing the news, seeing running counts, etc.) and start saying, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna do start my own thing again?" 

That probably happens at some point, right?  Wonder what that looks like/how that plays out.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 31, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In general, Americans have a short attention span and get bored with "news" and things fairly quickly.
> 
> We've really only been dealing with COVID-19 for a few weeks. Another thread got me thinking, as the virus continues, etc. and the weather gets warmer, I wonder how much longer it will be before people really tire of it (hearing the news, seeing running counts, etc.) and start saying, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna do start my own thing again?"
> 
> That probably happens at some point, right?  Wonder what that looks like/how that plays out.



It will happen more than it is currently happening.  Normalcy bias + attention span of a gnat.


----------



## 0699 (Mar 31, 2020)

CQB said:


> Not helping us sweetie, *even though we’re part of Asia*. Our Foreign Investment Review Board set a low bar in dollar terms so a foreign entity could buy into critical infrastructure here. The bar as of yesterday is  now zero. I guess the PRC will have to look elsewhere.


I thought Australia was its own continent.  Did something change?


----------



## Blizzard (Mar 31, 2020)

0699 said:


> I thought Australia was its own continent.  Did something change?


Globalization.


----------



## Brill (Mar 31, 2020)

The peanut gallery comments are hilarious.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244837885565698051


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 31, 2020)

Was looking through a bunch of stuff earlier.  The World took COVID-19 relatively seriously very early on when it came to giving aid to China.  Well...guess we needed all those supplies.


----------



## ctree (Mar 31, 2020)

Border Patrol Stopped a Chinese Biologist Carrying Viable SARS, MERS Viruses at Detroit Airport in 2018


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 31, 2020)

Guess whose facing shortages due to China's heavy involvement in supplying the drug trade? 

Mexican drug cartels struggle during coronavirus, hike prices as lab supplies from China dry up

If anything, this is more proof that China has been using organized crime groups as proxies for their war against us and our allies. Covid-19 is turning out to be the canary in the coal mine, when it comes to global Chicom involvement and dirty deeds. Fuck you China.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 31, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Guess whose facing shortages due to China's heavy involvement in supplying the drug trade?
> 
> Mexican drug cartels struggle during coronavirus, hike prices as lab supplies from China dry up
> 
> If anything, this is more proof that China has been using organized crime groups as proxies for their war against us and our allies. Covid-19 is turning out to be the canary in the coal mine, when it comes to global Chicom involvement and dirty deeds. Fuck you China.



Yep...nothing like a good crisis to allow the "puke of the world" to rise to the top and show their true colors.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 31, 2020)

Grunt said:


> Yep...nothing like a good crisis to allow the "puke of the world" to rise to the top and show their true colors.


Yep. Anything the Chicoms touch pretty much turns into garbage. Between destabilizing the Middle East, supporting organized crime, stealing our IP, and waging unabashed PSYOP campaigns on us, I'm amazed people haven't caught on earlier.

Still makes me angry that my college colleagues insinuated I was a racist for calling out the spread of Chinese influence. At the end of this pandemic, when the bodies and losses are counted, I think people are going to be baying for rivers of Chicom blood.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 31, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep. Anything the Chicoms touch pretty much turns into garbage. Between destabilizing the Middle East, supporting organized crime, stealing our IP, and waging unabashed PSYOP campaigns on us, *I'm amazed people haven't caught on earlier.*
> 
> Still makes me angry that my college colleagues insinuated I was a racist for calling out the spread of Chinese influence. At the end of this pandemic, when the bodies and losses are counted, I think people are going to be baying for rivers of Chicom blood.



It is the general public you're talking about...


----------



## Brill (Mar 31, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> ...I'm amazed people haven't caught on earlier.



How would they know? Upsetting the Chinese is a death blow to infotainment, Hollywood, and the NBA.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 31, 2020)

From the Univ of Washington, a reputable model taking in stay-at-home, social distancing, school closures, etc.  Take from it what you will, NC data in inline with what our state and organizational number-crunchers believe.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections


----------



## DA SWO (Mar 31, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep. Anything the Chicoms touch pretty much turns into garbage. Between destabilizing the Middle East, supporting organized crime, stealing our IP, and waging unabashed PSYOP campaigns on us, I'm amazed people haven't caught on earlier.
> 
> Still makes me angry that my college colleagues insinuated I was a racist for calling out the spread of Chinese influence. At the end of this pandemic, when the bodies and losses are counted, I think people are going to be baying for rivers of Chicom blood.


China owns the media, and the set the tone.
Some will be pissed, diehard socialists will just say it was necessary to sacrifice for the cause.


----------



## CQB (Mar 31, 2020)

0699 said:


> I thought Australia was its own continent.  Did something change?


Not to kill the buzz, but for most of the 20th century we looked to Europe & mother England for many things. Our PM Hawke saw Asia emerging as a great economic opportunity & commenced the swing away from the UK et. al. to join this huge growth area.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 31, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> It is the general public you're talking about...


When you look at how misinformed the public is one cannot help but sigh in disbelief and shame.


lindy said:


> How would they know? Upsetting the Chinese is a death blow to infotainment, Hollywood, and the NBA.


If anything this proves that infotainment, Hollywood, and the NBA, are a bunch of whores that sold the rest of us out for commie greenbacks.


DA SWO said:


> China owns the media, and the set the tone.
> Some will be pissed, diehard socialists will just say it was necessary to sacrifice for the cause.


Well then it looks the media is an enemy of the United States; a media apparatus that acts like Pakistan isn't a friend. As for the diehard socialists who see fit to sacrifice us, they should be sacrificed instead. It's getting to the point that if we don't deal with the Chicoms ideological cheerleaders we're liable to end up in chains, camps, or shallow ditches.


From an evolutionary standpoint in regards to competing civilizations, I just don't see the PRC and the USA existing together. I think China's viral gift to the world proves they're not fit to be a player on the world stage. China and their socialist cheerleaders herald doom for the rest of us and risks the species transitioning successfully towards space exploration.


----------



## digrar (Mar 31, 2020)

0699 said:


> I thought Australia was its own continent.  Did something change?



Just another Asian Island, like Java, Borneo, Timor or Hokkaido.
 No you're correct, we're not part of Asia, we're on our own continental plate, but like QCB said, we've been conditioned to consider ourselves as part of Asia. We're close enough to peg rocks at Indonesia, the bulk of our trade is to our direct North, and there's been a lot of work done to get our selves accepted into that community.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 31, 2020)

digrar said:


> Just another Asian Island, like Java, Borneo, Timor or Hokkaido.
> No you're correct, we're not part of Asia, we're on our own continental plate, but like QCB said, we've been conditioned to consider ourselves as part of Asia. We're close enough to peg rocks at Indonesia, the bulk of our trade is to our direct North, and there's been a lot of work done to get our selves accepted into that community.


So all of you are real short?


----------



## digrar (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm 6'4" and kids seem to be getting taller and taller.


----------



## racing_kitty (Mar 31, 2020)

digrar said:


> I'm 6'4" and kids seem to be getting taller and taller.


Still shorter than @Polar Bear


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 31, 2020)

My favorite part is the dumb cunt actually posted the pictures on Facebook!

California emergency manager is caught sunbathing on an empty BEACH


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 31, 2020)

Per today's Press Conference, US has tested 1.1M people.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 31, 2020)

I've been on a Covid News Blackout the past few days...shit was starting to wear me down.  I've been texted 'umpteenth' times in the last hour about the President's speech.  Anyone able/willing to offer a condensed version of what he said?  Are we staying in national lockdown for the unforeseen future?


----------



## SpitfireV (Mar 31, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If anything, this is more proof that China has been using organized crime groups as proxies for their war against us and our allies.



That's not 'proof' at all.


----------



## Brill (Mar 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I've been on a Covid News Blackout the past few days...shit was starting to wear me down.  I've been texted 'umpteenth' times in the last hour about the President's speech.  Anyone able/willing to offer a condensed version of what he said?  Are we staying in national lockdown for the unforeseen future?



BLUF: stand the fuck by. POTUS said we’re about to face a very difficult next few weeks.

From me to SS and our family: may God be with us.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I've been on a Covid News Blackout the past few days...shit was starting to wear me down.  I've been texted 'umpteenth' times in the last hour about the President's speech.  Anyone able/willing to offer a condensed version of what he said?  Are we staying in national lockdown for the unforeseen future?


Yeah that's pretty much where it's at.  Expect all states to enact stay-at-home orders if they haven't.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 31, 2020)

Projected "Peak" State-by-state:
Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation



Spoiler: State-by-state listing....



here is a list for the predicted peak dates of highest resources needed (hospital beds, ventilators, etc)


Vermont: April 9
New York: April 9
New Jersey: April 9
Michigan: April 10
Connecticut: April 10
Louisiana: April 10
Idaho: April 12
Massachusetts: April 14
Iowa: April 15
Pennsylvania: April 15
Illinois: April 16
Oklahoma: April 17
Indiana: April 17
Colorado: April 17
Washington, DC: April 18
Rhode Island: April 19
Ohio: April 19
Delaware: April 20
Alabama: April 20
Arkansas: April 20
Nevada: April 20
Minnesota: April 21
Georgia: April 22
Mississippi: April 22
North Carolina: April 22
Arizona: April 24
South Carolina: April 24
Washington: April 24
Maine: April 25
Tennessee: April 26
California: April 26
Wisconsin: April 26
Utah: April 27
Kansas: April 28
New Hampshire: April 30
New Mexico: April 30
Alaska: April 30
Hawaii: April 30
Nebraska: April 30
Montana: April 30
West Virginia: May 1
North Dakota: May 1
South Dakota: May 1
Wyoming: May 1
Texas: May 2
Oregon: May 3
Florida: May 3
Missouri: May 11
Kentucky: May 12
Maryland: May 14
Virginia: May 17

Of course this is only a model and there is much unknown and "best estimates" are being used for a lot of the model parameters.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Mar 31, 2020)

Today's presser for those that missed it and want to see it. Starts at 51 min mark.


----------



## Bambi (Mar 31, 2020)

I live in Kentucky, why is the expected peak so much later than other states?


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 31, 2020)

Because you're spread out out more than the other states.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 31, 2020)

Bambi said:


> I live in Kentucky, why is the expected peak so much later than other states?



A bunch of stuff.  Population density is why NY is fucked, but they also took ZERO early mitigation steps.  Another part of the equation is when your first confirmed case of exposure was.


----------



## Polar Bear (Mar 31, 2020)

digrar said:


> I'm 6'4" and kids seem to be getting taller and taller.


Got you beat by 4 inches bitch!! My 15 and 17 year old got you beat.


----------



## digrar (Apr 1, 2020)

Yeah but I'm only human, not some style of shaved down yetti...


----------



## Scarecrow (Apr 1, 2020)

The federal government here is moving to ban and heavily penalise anyone caught exporting face masks and hand sanitiser to China with up to 5 years prison. 

Aussies caught sending supplies to China could be jailed

As CQB mentioned yesterday about the Chinese company, Greenland stripping us of supplies, there is also another Chinese company here called Risland that sent 90 tonnes of medical equipment back to China at the end of February on a corporate jet. Our medical community are facing PPE shortages at the moment.

Fuck ‘em.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 1, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Some serious shit here...but an opportunity for bourbon aficionados...
> Coronavirus Pandemic: Popular Arvada Bar Sells Rarest Bourbon To Pay Employees



Awesome place! My son, the one you met, and I went there. During the recent trek out west. 
That place is Bourbon heaven!


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In general, Americans have a short attention span and get bored with "news" and things fairly quickly.
> 
> We've really only been dealing with COVID-19 for a few weeks. Another thread got me thinking, as the virus continues, etc. and the weather gets warmer, I wonder how much longer it will be before people really tire of it (hearing the news, seeing running counts, etc.) and start saying, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna do start my own thing again?"
> 
> That probably happens at some point, right?  Wonder what that looks like/how that plays out.


It plays out fucked up... that’s how it plays out☹️


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 1, 2020)

digrar said:


> Yeah but I'm only human, not some style of shaved down yetti...


I will take that as a compliment


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 1, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> The federal government here is moving to ban and heavily penalise anyone caught exporting face masks and hand sanitiser to China with up to 5 years prison.
> 
> Aussies caught sending supplies to China could be jailed
> 
> ...


Are you guys going to be able to manufacture PPE and other supplies to fight the kung flu? It sucks the Chicoms are stripping the shelves of supplies you guys desperately need. Y'all have my condolences.


----------



## Scarecrow (Apr 1, 2020)

@R.Caerbannog I honestly don’t know what % of our medical supplies are manufactured domestically. The New South Wales premier has just called on any manufacturing company that is able to make any of those items to do so. A food packaging company in South Australia called Detmold announced it was going to make 145 million surgical masks as well as respirators. Some distilleries here are converting production lines to produce hand sanitiser etc.

We have some great unity going on here at the moment and businesses, big and small, are helping where they can.

Hopefully some lessons learned from this...and remembered.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 1, 2020)

Thought I was about to score some some Clorox wipes!

nope.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Thought I was about to score some some Clorox wipes!
> 
> nope.



No worries, Brother...before long, we will have to take a travel down the new "silk road" to buy those things....


----------



## RustyShackleford (Apr 1, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Got you beat by 4 inches bitch!! My 15 and 17 year old got you beat.



Freak!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennedy Center Axes National Symphony Orchestra Staff After Receiving $25 Million in Stimulus Funds - Washington Free Beacon

Well that happened.

ETA: China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says

I mean, no shit!


----------



## 0699 (Apr 1, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Freak!


What's weird is he doesn't look as tall when he's sitting down.


----------



## Dame (Apr 1, 2020)

Good idea.
Home Depot executes 'stop-sale' order for N95 masks, donates them to health care workers during coronavirus


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 1, 2020)

Am I buying into conspiracy soup or would stuff like this be contributing to inflated death counts?

I read this guidance from the Ohio Department of Health, and it makes me wonder what kind of pressure doctors are facing...

_"COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death."

"When 'probable COVID-19' is indicated on the death certificate, ODH/VS will consider these to be COVID-19 cases with regard to death reporting."_

3_31 Guidance for Reporting COVID-19 on Certificate of Death.pdf


----------



## Grunt (Apr 1, 2020)

There is no doubt that the way they are computing them *increases* the numbers and points to something other than the true cause.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 1, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Am I buying into conspiracy soup or would stuff like this be contributing to inflated death counts?
> 
> I read this guidance from the Ohio Department of Health, and it makes me wonder what kind of pressure doctors are facing...
> 
> ...



Honestly, it's usually the opposite: someone has flu and dies, often the COD is listed as the terminal event (i.e., pneumonia, sepsis, cardiac arrest).  I think they are really trying to track accurate numbers.


----------



## CQB (Apr 1, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> @R.Caerbannog I honestly don’t know what % of our medical supplies are manufactured domestically. The New South Wales premier has just called on any manufacturing company that is able to make any of those items to do so. A food packaging company in South Australia called Detmold announced it was going to make 145 million surgical masks as well as respirators. Some distilleries here are converting production lines to produce hand sanitiser etc.
> 
> We have some great unity going on here at the moment and businesses, big and small, are helping where they can.
> 
> Hopefully some lessons learned from this...and remembered.


Just around the corner from where I’m working there’s a tailor who has gone it alone & making his own masks. 👍
As @Scarecrow noted, there’s some amazing things happening to get over this. Our national union boss is working with the government & big business. Three weeks ago, they were at each other’s throats. We’ve all realised it’s a unity of purpose moment.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 1, 2020)




----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 1, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Apr 1, 2020)

Dear God Help Us!  Shit is getting serious. 

Breweries running out of bottles as COVID-19 halts recycling returns


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Dear God Help Us!  Shit is getting serious.
> 
> Breweries running out of bottles as COVID-19 halts recycling returns


Bagged beer? Plastic bottles? I mean around here growlers are pretty popular, don't see why plastic jugs of beer can't be manufactured. Especially with oil so cheap...


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 1, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Bagged beer? Plastic bottles? I mean around here growlers are pretty popular, don't see why plastic jugs of beer can't be manufactured. Especially with oil so cheap...



Our system runs on deposit bottles.  I'm sure they'll figure out a solution, probably just more cans.


----------



## digrar (Apr 1, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> I will take that as a compliment



As it was intended! 



> Some distilleries here are converting production lines to produce hand sanitiser etc.



Not entirely sure how altruistic these acts are, they've got decreased volume going out the door and the capacity for another income stream during a tough 6 months ahead.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 1, 2020)

digrar said:


> Not entirely sure how altruistic these acts are, they've got decreased volume going out the door and the capacity for another income stream during a tough 6 months ahead.



There's a few distillers near here that are making it, selling at cost to the public and donating the majority to healthcare and first responders.  But taxpayers are bailing out everyone.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Apr 1, 2020)

Are we tracking that the China death numbers are greatly deflated?

Chinese Funeral Home Ash Urns

Just Skip to Around 5:00-6:20


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 1, 2020)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Are we tracking that the China death numbers are greatly deflated?
> 
> Chinese Funeral Home Ash Urns
> 
> Just Skip to Around 5:00-6:20



Yeah!

#fuckchina


----------



## Brill (Apr 2, 2020)

Dang.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245040294162243587


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2020)

Dear China,

Well done.  This is definitely "flattening the curve"!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 2, 2020)

So...as an update to the suspension of China being able to purchase Australian Assets...it appears they fucked everyone early.  With a wooden splintery member.

Coronavirus: China stockpiled more than 2 billion masks and medical items

They used Chinese companies with active arms in other countries to purchase PPE and ship back to China.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...as an update to the suspension of China being able to purchase Australian Assets...it appears they fucked everyone early.  With a wooden splintery member.
> 
> Coronavirus: China stockpiled more than 2 billion masks and medical items
> 
> They used Chinese companies with active arms in other countries to purchase PPE and ship back to China.


And yet we’re the bad guys.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 2, 2020)

China is patient, long-suffering, and willing to lose as many people as necessary to achieve their goals.

With that said, they aren't stupid and knew what was coming. They care about themselves and no one else.

Personally, I don't believe anything they ever say -- and I sincerely mean ever. Every time they speak, it's out of both sides of their mouths. I certainly don't believe a single word or stat that they produce concerning *their* virus.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 2, 2020)

Grunt said:


> China is patient, long-suffering, and willing to lose as many people as necessary to achieve their goals.
> 
> With that said, they aren't stupid and knew what was coming. They care about themselves and no one else.
> 
> Personally, I don't believe anything they ever say -- and I sincerely mean ever. Every time they speak, *it's out of  their ASS*. I certainly don't believe a single word or stat that they produce concerning *their* virus.



FIFY.
I don't believe ChiCom Flu is a naturally occurring event either.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 2, 2020)

I'll preface this by saying I haven't fact-checked the information independently.  I did, however, wonder how they're getting the data.


*NSA Enhanced surveillance, 5G and The COVID-19 Care Act… what just quietly happened?*


Ever wonder where the data for the COVID-19 dashboards come from? How about the social distancing data? The reports and data are being streamed Via the NSA Data Center known as “Bumblehive”.

Here’s a statement I copied and pasted, right off their page and what they have to say…
“In the spirit of openness and transparency, here is a partial list of current and planned future data collection targets:
• internet searches (ie; here’s a collection of searches by Federal Government workers)
• websites visited
• emails sent and received
• social media activity (Facebook, Twitter, etc)
• blogging activity including posts read, written, and commented on
• videos watched and/or uploaded online
• photos viewed and/or uploaded online
• mobile phone GPS-location data
• mobile phone apps downloaded
• phone call records
• text messages sent and received
• Skype video calls
• online purchases and auction transactions
• credit card/ debit card transactions
• financial information
• legal documents
• travel documents
• health records
• cable television shows watched and recorded
• commuter toll records
• electronic bus and subway passes / Smartpasses
• facial recognition data from surveillance cameras
• educational records
• arrest records
• driver license information
• DNA
The PRISM program is our #1 source of raw intelligence and consists of data extracted from the servers of nine major American internet companies. In the spirit of openness and transparency, we have embedded the Twitter feed from the NSA_PRISMbot which periodically posts random samples of PRISM collection data.”


_*“If You Have Nothing to Hide, You Have Nothing to Fear.”*_


----------



## Brill (Apr 2, 2020)

^^^ bogus site.



> This is a *parody* of nsa.gov and has not been approved, endorsed, or authorized by the National Security Agency or by any other U.S. Government agency.
> Much of this content was derived from news media, privacy groups, and government websites. Links to these sites are posted on the left-sidebars of each page.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2020)

The state of Georgia staying up on the most recent information. 😳


_“individuals could have been infecting people before they ever felt bad, but we didn’t know that until the last 24 hours.”_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245513642319151110


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 2, 2020)

I've been watching a lot of Youtube lately. Lots of ads for the Epoch Times about CHYNAH. I haven't subscribed to their service, but I just might. One brief article I saw was that China dropped 21 million cellphone users over the past 3 months, but again, haven't read the full piece.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 2, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I'll preface this by saying I haven't fact-checked the information independently.  I did, however, wonder how they're getting the data.
> 
> 
> *NSA Enhanced surveillance, 5G and The COVID-19 Care Act… what just quietly happened?*
> ...



Hard to take any of that serious when I can't click through to the source content. nsa.gov1.info is an absolute no go for me, unless I'm looking for a good dose of daily spillage on my personal computer.


----------



## Brill (Apr 2, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Hard to take any of that serious when I can't click through to the source content. nsa.gov1.info is an absolute no go for me, unless *I'm looking for a good dose of daily spillage on my personal computer*.



Pornhub is all over it (pun intended).


----------



## CQB (Apr 2, 2020)

Some stark choices. 
Covid-19 presents stark choices between life, death and the economy


----------



## Dame (Apr 2, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> FIFY.
> I don't believe ChiCom Flu is a naturally occurring event either.


Take it for what it's worth but it does show the Chinese have been engineering their bat shit crazy since 2015.
Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research


----------



## Kraut783 (Apr 2, 2020)

Wasn't sure to post this in the relieved navy commander thread or here....

*Navy expected to remove commander of aircraft carrier hit by coronavirus for being suspected of leaking memo.*

Navy expected to remove commander of aircraft carrier hit by coronavirus for being suspected of leaking memo


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 2, 2020)

Listening to the Press Conference, if everyone remembers from a month ago now we had 10,000 ventilators in the reserve that was kept by DHHS.  Well, the federal government has contracts for over 100k ventilators.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2020)

My guess is that the good Captain DID attempt to go thru the chain of command and finally said, "fuck it"...

Navy fires captain who sought help for virus-striken ship

WASHINGTON — The captain of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier facing a growing outbreak of the coronavirus was fired Thursday by Navy leaders who said he created a panic by sending his memo pleading for help to too many people.

Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said the ship's commander, Capt. Brett Crozier "demonstrated extremely poor judgement" in the middle of a crisis. He said the captain copied too many people on the memo, which was leaked to a California newspaper and quickly spread to many news outlets.

He said Crozier should have gone directly to his immediate commanders, who were already moving to help the ship.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 2, 2020)

This is what Marine boot camp looks like during a pandemic

Social distancing, Marine Corps bootcamp style.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> This is what Marine boot camp looks like during a pandemic
> 
> Social distancing, Marine Corps bootcamp style.


Those poor bastards.

I actually pity them.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 2, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Those poor bastards.
> 
> I actually pity them.


Have to agree. Boot is tough enough mentally without this added social distancing. On the plus side though, they can't hit the bridge of your nose with their funny little hats.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 2, 2020)

UPDATE: University of Pittsburgh reports successful COVID-19 vaccine trial

University of Pittsburgh is reporting a successful trial run of a vaccine in mice. They claim COVID19 is similar to other SARS viruses and that a specific protein can be targeted to defeat it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 2, 2020)

Stay classy New Jersey...

Murphy authorizes State Police to commandeer medical supplies in coronavirus fight

_Murphy signed an executive order last week requiring businesses throughout the state to provide the state with an inventory of the supplies and equipment they have. *His latest order gives Callahan to authority to commandeer supplies and equipment that hasn’t been donated.*_


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 2, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Stay classy New Jersey...
> 
> Murphy authorizes State Police to commandeer medical supplies in coronavirus fight
> 
> _Murphy signed an executive order last week requiring businesses throughout the state to provide the state with an inventory of the supplies and equipment they have. *His latest order gives Callahan to authority to commandeer supplies and equipment that hasn’t been donated.*_


There are no supplies here. . .


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 2, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Have to agree. Boot is tough enough mentally without this added social distancing. On the plus side though, they can't hit the bridge of your nose with their funny little hats.


Why because you jarheads can spoon in boot camp now?


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 2, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Why because you jarheads can spoon in boot camp now?



Can't*

And what happens in the field stays in the field.


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 2, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've been watching a lot of Youtube lately. Lots of ads for the Epoch Times about CHYNAH. I haven't subscribed to their service, but I just might. One brief article I saw was that China dropped 21 million cellphone users over the past 3 months, but again, haven't read the full piece.


Not that I really care for China, but Epoch Times is owned by Falun Gong and manufactures a lot of propaganda


----------



## Brill (Apr 2, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Not that I really care for China, but Epoch Times is owned by Falun Gong and manufactures a lot of propaganda



They have been spot on regarding their reporting of Trump-Russia, Mueller “investigation“, and FISA garbage. Some would say that has been news whereas the media conglomerates (WaPo, NYT, CNN, and big 3 TV networks) have consistently been wrong on all those stories.

It‘s worth noting Epoch Times calls COVID-19 the CCP virus.

As CCP Virus Rampages Worldwide, Countries Lacking Clean Water Face Challenges


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 2, 2020)

Got my coronavirus money. Just in time too.


----------



## Brill (Apr 2, 2020)

Unemployment and COVID are now linked. These numbers in the GIF  are unbelievable.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245787069076602880


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 3, 2020)

Foreigners in China are becoming persona non grata. This is one of the many signs that China is prepping to do some evil shit around the world. If the CCP is willing to sacrifice the foreign dummies that flock to them, imagine what they have in store for the rest of us.

The world is about to get extremely ugly and we still have turncoats in government, hollyweird, and the mainstream media, who shill for the commies.


Spoiler: Images


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Foreigners in China are becoming persona non grata. This is one of the many signs that China is prepping to do some evil shit around the world. If the CCP is willing to sacrifice the foreign dummies that flock to them, imagine what they have in store for the rest of us.
> 
> The world is about to get extremely ugly and we still have turncoats in government, hollyweird, and the mainstream media, who shill for the commies.
> 
> ...



That is effective messaging by their government if they are calling it an overseas epidemic


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)




----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 3, 2020)

I support the decision to fire the Skipper especially based off this info.

Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That is effective messaging by their government if they are calling it an overseas epidemic


Agree, though I think the epidemic part belies just how truly expendable foreigners in China will be in the future.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 3, 2020)

It all makes sense now.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 3, 2020)




----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I support the decision to fire the Skipper especially based off this info.
> 
> Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246043872402313217


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I support the decision to fire the Skipper especially based off this info.
> 
> Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)


His boss was literally on the ship!  Lol wtf.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246043872402313217



If that is not a signal about the effectiveness of his perceived leadership in command, I don't know what is. Obviously we don't know the whole story, but it looks like his crew loves him and thinks he was acting on their behalf.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 3, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If that is not a signal about the effectiveness of his perceived leadership in command, I don't know what is. Obviously we don't know the whole story, but it looks like his crew loves him and thinks he was acting on their behalf.



sheep are going to sheep


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> sheep are going to sheep


Meaning what?


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 3, 2020)

Parsing through my phone’s history will be a pain, but I found a link somewhere stating that the Pentagon was no longer releasing their numbers for the communist cooties. That came out about 4 days ago, shortly after news got out about a NJ guardsman dying of the virus.

That said, I think it’s safe to assume that one doesn’t get to be skipper of a carrier by being a fucking idiot. However, there are still too many risk-averse leaders in very high positions throughout the military. I’m willing to bet that he’d already tried talking to his boss, boss couldn’t or wouldn’t formulate a plan to get the crew off the boat, and this was the skipper’s way of using the oft-touted-but-covertly-discouraged open door policy. It’s just at that level, there aren’t too many doors to open between you and the top.

I’m not certain that the now-former skipper leaked the memo, but just the mere existence of it would piss off a lot of folks. One, for pissing all over their authority by jumping the chain (another name for the open door policy), and two, by reaffirming that senior military leadership in non-SPECOPS career tracks learn lessons at a glacial pace, because they obviously didn’t learn from the Diamond Princess last month how this shit spreads on a boat.

If you read the rebuttal from SECNAV, he states that he gave the skipper a direct line to the SECNAV’s ear. That’s the open door policy. I’ll bet my last roll of toilet paper that the reason he didn’t hear anything directly was because the skipper was hesitant in —or blocked from— using that direct channel. Too many underlings couldn’t get their shit together, and this memo to the very top was the skipper’s way of using that channel, only he went one open door further. Hence why someone else likely leaked the memo

He was cheered for giving more than a tinker’s damn about his crew. That can be a career ender in today’s military when you go up against someone to whom their subordinates are second to their careers.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

ASU researchers look for traces of COVID-19 in Tempe wastewater

As we know there are people with GI symptoms.  I'm gonna guess that if they're able to detect the virus at a wastewater treatment plant before the sludge gets treated that a WHOLE LOT MORE people are infected than we know.  And if that is the case, I'm not sure we should be shutting this bitch down like we have.



racing_kitty said:


> If you read the rebuttal from SECNAV, he states that he gave the skipper a direct line to the SECNAV’s ear. That’s the open door policy. I’ll bet my last roll of toilet paper that the reason he didn’t hear anything directly was because the skipper was hesitant in —or blocked from— using that direct channel. Too many underlings couldn’t get their shit together, and this memo to the very top was the skipper’s way of using that channel, only he went one open door further. Hence why someone else likely leaked the memo


You can be liked by your crew and still be a bad officer.  I've seen this more than a few times at the lower level, being liked is not a measure of effectiveness.  

He sent that letter on NIPR to over 20 addresses, in the release from the SECNAV it stated that most of those were outside of the Chain of Command.  Ship's Captains remain a God on the ship when it comes to their power.  As an O-6, if he filed an IG Complaint that thing would have gotten routed rapidly.  

Not only did he write a memo that was distributed outside the CoC, the Ships PAO was basically doing a PxP on their Facebook. 

We also know that the Pacific Fleet has a lot of issues from the numerous collisions of recent years that just seem to be systemic.  I'm not going to immediately say he was right.  We'll see what the investigation yields.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ASU researchers look for traces of COVID-19 in Tempe wastewater
> And if that is the case, I'm not sure we should be shutting this bitch down like we have.



I agree. At this point, I sincerely believe that "herd immunity" would be our best bet for beating upcoming issues with this. If the numbers are to be remotely believed, I think it -- immunity gained through exposure -- would be our best course of action from here out. But, I'm just a grunt....


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Parsing through my phone’s history will be a pain, but I found a link somewhere stating that the Pentagon was no longer releasing their numbers for the communist cooties. That came out about 4 days ago, shortly after news got out about a NJ guardsman dying of the virus.
> 
> That said, I think it’s safe to assume that one doesn’t get to be skipper of a carrier by being a fucking idiot. However, there are still too many risk-averse leaders in very high positions throughout the military. I’m willing to bet that he’d already tried talking to his boss, boss couldn’t or wouldn’t formulate a plan to get the crew off the boat, and this was the skipper’s way of using the oft-touted-but-covertly-discouraged open door policy. It’s just at that level, there aren’t too many doors to open between you and the top.
> 
> ...



I don't know how it is in the rest of the branches, in the Navy there is extraordinarily little latitude in leadership positions, and that has been historically born out and all the stories we have seen about commanding officers, executive officers, and enlisted leaders getting the ax. True, in some cases it is very obvious and they need to go, but some cases were real head scratchers, as in what the hell?

I would venture to wager that all of us on this forum have seen the hypocrisy in actions like this, and then being told that leadership should always have your people's best interests, and exercise command judgment.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 3, 2020)

The biggest problem that I see in this incident in particular is that to get to his rank, you have to chose to be a politician more than rank and file -- even if your heart is there. However, when you *follow* your heart where it leads you to action -- if it upsets the *politicians*, you will pay a price for going against the establishment. He did that and is now paying for it.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246043872402313217



I saw that, though the CO is not there to make friends.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 3, 2020)

Canadian troops are mobilizing.   https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/forces-mobalized-fight-coronavirus-1.5518503


----------



## 0699 (Apr 3, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Parsing through my phone’s history will be a pain, but I found a link somewhere stating that the Pentagon was no longer releasing their numbers for the communist cooties. That came out about 4 days ago, shortly after news got out about a NJ guardsman dying of the virus.


I read this too.  Releasing those numbers provides insight to our enemies about our current capabilities.  Makes sense to me that we aren't revealing those numbers.


ThunderHorse said:


> You can be liked by your crew and still be a bad officer.  I've seen this more than a few times at the lower level, being liked is not a measure of effectiveness.


I agree 100%.  Too many people equate being liked with being an effective leader.  Sometimes leaders have to make difficult and unpopular choices.


RackMaster said:


> Canadian troops are mobilizing.   https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/forces-mobalized-fight-coronavirus-1.5518503


Toques and Tim Horton's for everyone!! 


racing_kitty said:


> He was cheered for giving more than a tinker’s damn about his crew. That can be a career ender in today’s military when you go up against someone to whom their subordinates are second to their careers.


What's the possibility they were cheering because he was an idiot and they were glad to see him go?  I don't know, I just don't want to assume.  There have been plenty of people in leadership positions who I've been happy to see leave.  Just saying.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 3, 2020)

0699 said:


> What's the possibility they were cheering because he was an idiot and they were glad to see him go?  I don't know, I just don't want to assume.  There have been plenty of people in leadership positions who I've been happy to see leave.  Just saying.



I’ve had my share of toxic leaders, too. We’d just jeer or stand in silence. In a couple of instances, snickering and giggling was heard through formation. No fucks given, no leadership displayed. Then again, I wasn’t a Marine. 🤣


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 3, 2020)

If he cared so much about the crew, why go to a port visit in Vietnam when the coronavirus was ongoing? He put his crew in danger.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 3, 2020)

an interesting chart


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 3, 2020)

You're welcome.  I've spent a lot of time following Quarantine Fight Club... 
Brad 🇨🇦 (@quarantine_fight_club) • Instagram photos and videos


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

Put under, definitely Chinese Propaganda: 'Opportunity of the century': How the coronavirus crisis could establish China as a global leader

WTF are US media outlets doing?


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2020)

0699 said:


> I agree 100%.  Too many people equate being liked with being an effective leader.  Sometimes leaders have to make difficult and unpopular choices.
> 
> What's the possibility they were cheering because he was an idiot and they were glad to see him go?  I don't know, I just don't want to assume.  There have been plenty of people in leadership positions who I've been happy to see leave.  Just saying.



Do you have "the full story?". I certainly don't.  Clearly people are interpreting the video a couple different ways.  Like all these stories of COs getting canned, we'll likely not get the full story.


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meaning what?



@pardus, there was a question about sheep.


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> That can be a career ender in today’s military when you go up against someone to whom their subordinates are second to their careers.



Or fast track to CNN as a military analyst.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Put under, definitely Chinese Propaganda: 'Opportunity of the century': How the coronavirus crisis could establish China as a global leader
> 
> WTF are US media outlets doing?



A story about how China is likely to attempt to position themselves as a global leader using this situation is Chinese propaganda now?

We've literally got threads on this board about all of the CCP's overseas initiatives in attempts to establish themselves as a world leader.


----------



## CQB (Apr 3, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Foreigners in China are becoming persona non grata. This is one of the many signs that China is prepping to do some evil shit around the world. If the CCP is willing to sacrifice the foreign dummies that flock to them, imagine what they have in store for the rest of us.
> 
> The world is about to get extremely ugly and we still have turncoats in government, hollyweird, and the mainstream media, who shill for the commies.
> 
> ...


Incidentally our government has said for foreigners to go home if they can’t contribute, ie; have skills that can be utilised.


----------



## Gordus (Apr 3, 2020)

Something to lift the spirits.






We'll get through this.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> If he cared so much about the crew, why go to a port visit in Vietnam when the coronavirus was ongoing? He put his crew in danger.


Was that his decision, or someone else's decision?


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 3, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Was that his decision, or someone else's decision?



I'd imagine if it were someone else's it would have been in his letter.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2020)

The more I'm reading about his dismissal the more it is appearing to be politically motivated.

One of the boat's senior enlisted advisors said, he was one of the best officers for whom he had ever worked.

Someone else sent out a Twitter that said #bestCO

Something doesn't smell right about the whole thing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A story about how China is likely to attempt to position themselves as a global leader using this situation is Chinese propaganda now?
> 
> We've literally got threads on this board about all of the CCP's overseas initiatives in attempts to establish themselves as a world leader.


Or, they could have an article that clearly covers the fact that the Chinese obfuscated the facts and data of the situation and then discuss how they would use the situation to establish hegemony.  That take I would have appreciated.



Devildoc said:


> The more I'm reading about his dismissal the more it is appearing to be politically motivated.
> 
> One of the boat's senior enlisted advisors said, he was one of the best officers for whom he had ever worked.
> 
> ...



Nothing political about it.  Communication sent on NIPR, Communication published in Newspaper, Skipper relieved.  I'm not sure how anyone would expect him to retain his command after that.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> I'd imagine if it were someone else's it would have been in his letter.


Maybe.
Capt of the Cole (?) expressed concerns about going into Yeman and was ordered by CentCom (Gen Crist IIRC) to go anyway.  Guess who got relieved?


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)

The timeline of events on The Rosey:

'Sailors do not need to die': A timeline of coronavirus spread on USS Theodore Roosevelt

The CAPT’s letter seemed a bit hyperbolic.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

General Milley on the removal:


----------



## Steve1839 (Apr 3, 2020)

0699 said:


> What's the possibility they were cheering because he was an idiot and they were glad to see him go?  I don't know, I just don't want to assume.  There have been plenty of people in leadership positions who I've been happy to see leave.  Just saying.


I do recall a long time ago in a land far away, troops were said to be singing "We don't need no Group Commander" and "Ding-dong, the Colonel's dead" after aforementioned Group commander came to an untimely end...


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 3, 2020)

You know that Hugh Jashol would have something to say after NYC Mayor Bill DeBlasio said the "National Guard is not the military" during a COVID video interview:

*National Guard Members Supporting Corona Fight Thrilled to Learn They’re “Not the Military”* 

*link*

New York City Mayor  Bill DeBlasio’s "National Guard is not the military" comments unleashed a torrent of outrage from America’s active duty force.  But in a surprising twist, National Guardsmen, especially those called up to support the fight against Corona inside New York City, were thrilled by the announcement.

The summary departure of every member of the National Guard from New York City after the NYC mayor's “They’re not the military” remarks didn’t seem to surprise Mayor DeBlaiso. After all,* it’s not the first time that uniformed public servants in New York City turned their backs on “Hizzoner.” *


----------



## 0699 (Apr 3, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’ve had my share of toxic leaders, too. We’d just jeer or stand in silence. In a couple of instances, snickering and giggling was heard through formation. No fucks given, no leadership displayed. Then again, *I wasn’t a Marine*. 🤣


That's okay.  I don't hold it against you.  I love you just the way you are!!


Devildoc said:


> Do you have "the full story?". I certainly don't.  Clearly people are interpreting the video a couple different ways.  Like all these stories of COs getting canned, we'll likely not get the full story.


I have absolutely no idea, I just don't want to assume facts that aren't in evidence.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 3, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> *One of the boat's senior enlisted advisors said*, he was one of the best officers for whom he had ever worked.


IME, most senior enlisted advisors are FOS.  I knew very few SgtMajs and 1stSgts that were GTG.  Most of them were worried about lineal lists, kissing the right ass, and their next promotion or duty station.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 3, 2020)

0699 said:


> IME, most senior enlisted advisors are FOS.  I knew very few SgtMajs and 1stSgts that were GTG.  Most of them were worried about lineal lists, kissing the right ass, and their next promotion or duty station.



I don't know man, sounds like maybe you were the victim of some perpetually bad leadership. That certainly wasn't my experience.

I know there is going to be lots of sides to the story, but the more that comes out the more It sounds like he's a stand-up guy in a great leader.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 3, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I don't know man, sounds like *maybe you were the victim of some perpetually bad leadership*. That certainly wasn't my experience.
> 
> I know there is going to be lots of sides to the story, but the more that comes out the more It sounds like he's a stand-up guy in a great leader.


You're probably right.  I don't have tons of experience.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 3, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally our government has said for foreigners to go home if they can’t contribute, ie; have skills that can be utilised.


Well I hope they give teeth to that statement, cause the Chicoms who raided y'alls supply system ain't likely to take that suggestion. Commies are roaches, asking a roach to leave your home ain't really gonna do much. Save for emboldening them.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 3, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> If he cared so much about the crew, why go to a port visit in Vietnam when the coronavirus was ongoing? He put his crew in danger.



With a publish date of 4Mar, one can infer from the verbiage in this Stars and Stripes online article, the TR put into port at Danang on 27Feb. Elected leaders here were still telling folks that there was no need to panic at that time. As of today, 3Apr, there are only 233 cases in Vietnam, with nearly 74,000 tested so far. As of 30Mar, there were 75,000 under quarantine, and 55 recovered patients. Hanoi has the most cases currently with 81, and the first case was reported in Long An on 30Jan.

By train, Hanoi is 786km from Da Nang, and Long An commune, Long An province is roughly 795km from Da Nang. Da Nang, itself, is only reporting six cases as of 30Mar.

While Trump had announced a travel ban on China by the time the TR put into port, travel to other countries wasn’t quite as restricted, and people still thought Trump was full of shit about the whole Covid-19 situation, to the point they were still encouraging large gatherings in the States. Without being a fly on the cabin wall, I can’t say with any certainty if senior officers said “Maybe Vietnam has its act together like S. Korea,” or it was another case of “Fuck Trump, Imma do what I want! We’re putting into port!” We’ll never know. A smart man would’ve said “too close to China,” but the numbers I’ve provided now were likely much smaller on 27Feb. That’s not accounting for the chance that Vietnamese stats are as shady as China (possible, but doubtful).

It’s all academic at this point, but from all the reading I’ve done, this seems political to me. I could write even more about that, but my thumbs and the board would thank me for not doing so.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

Vietnam has a population of 95M people.  Vietnam suspended all air travel with China on 1 FEB.  31 JAN the State Airline had cancelled all travel.

Considering how much travel had occurred between China and Vietnam from 1 NOV thru 31 JAN, it is safe to assume they have an outbreak, I wouldn't say their numbers are shit, their numbers are probably real, the difference is that they may not have reliable capacity.  

Although from what I understand, Japan's numbers are trash.  They are testing a lot more people now that the Olympics is cancelled.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 3, 2020)

To me, the numbers tell some sort of interesting story behind the severity.  Not sure what the story is necessarily but maybe it's about the populations being hit or comorbidities, or something, but:

NY has 6x as many total deaths as the next closest state, NJ.

Between NY and NJ, they account for half the total deaths nationwide.

Total deaths and total cases are high in NY, NJ, and Mi but then falls off dramatically elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the #s in WA and CA, where the virus first took hold, appear to be relatively stable.

U.S. has 2.5x the number of cases as Italy, but half the number of total deaths.

U.S. deaths are more in line with those of France, despite having 4x as many reported cases.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 3, 2020)

Canada has no domestic capability to produce the materials needed for the N95.  But apparently a company in Woodbridge, Ontario is near approval for a next generation mask and production should start soon.  

‘Brutal education’: Inside the mad rush to make masks to battle COVID-19


----------



## Dame (Apr 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canada has no domestic capability to produce the materials needed for the N95.  But apparently a company in Woodbridge, Ontario is near approval for a next generation mask and production should start soon.
> 
> ‘Brutal education’: Inside the mad rush to make masks to battle COVID-19


WRONG my Canukistani friend.
Fighting Corona with the Superior Crown Royal!

Thinking of starting a new business. I already have plenty of inventory.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 3, 2020)

Let's all pause for a moment and listen to Steve Martin play the banjo.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Canada has no domestic capability to produce the materials needed for the N95.  But apparently a company in Woodbridge, Ontario is near approval for a next generation mask and production should start soon.
> 
> ‘Brutal education’: Inside the mad rush to make masks to battle COVID-19


The N96? 😛

You'd think the solution would be an effective reusable mask.  If we can put a man on the moon...


----------



## Topkick (Apr 3, 2020)

0699 said:


> You're probably right.  I don't have tons of experience.


You are not all wrong, though. There are plenty of careerist "leaders" at that level who continue  to check all the right boxes, IME.


----------



## Dame (Apr 3, 2020)

Very interesting take on the Chinese way of denial.
Ai Weiwei on Coronavirus


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 3, 2020)

Dame said:


> WRONG my Canukistani friend.
> Fighting Corona with the Superior Crown Royal!
> View attachment 32979
> Thinking of starting a new business. I already have plenty of inventory.


Nice mask. 

LL


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Let's all pause for a moment and listen to Steve Martin play the banjo.



Wonder if he came upon any hikers in the woods?


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 3, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The N96? 😛
> 
> You'd think the solution would be an effective reusable mask.  If we can put a man on the moon...



Well actually...  lol


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2020)

For all the praise Cuomo gets, this shit right here shows me he needs to be recalled:  Cuomo plans to use National Guard to seize ventilators from upstate facilities


----------



## Grunt (Apr 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For all the praise Cuomo gets, this shit right here shows me he needs to be recalled:  Cuomo plans to use National Guard to seize ventilators from upstate facilities



Yep...clowns like him are using this period in our lives to *sow his oats* and abuse his power with presumed impunity. With the fear in everyones lives, he may just get away with it.


----------



## Brill (Apr 3, 2020)

Ouch. Remember when POTUS was clapped at to listen to the doctors?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246156119938080776


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 3, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> You'd think the solution would be an effective reusable mask.  If we can put a man on the moon...


FWIW, answering more own questions...kind of:
Why haven’t they designed reusable N95 masks?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 3, 2020)

Today's presser starts at 51:14. 





POTUS not happy with 3M and states masks will go out to Spain and other countries dealing with the CCP virus. The US ain't hording masks or production (unlike the rest of the world). For anyone not paying attention to the pressers, the media pukes are have been engaging in disinformation.

The MSM are not our friends, at best they're useful idiots and at worst they're actively engaging in subterfuge.


----------



## AWP (Apr 4, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The MSM are not our friends, at best they're useful idiots and at worst they're actively engaging in subterfuge.



At this point the only people less trustworthy than the media are Thai hookers with a bulge below their waists.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Thought I was about to score some some Clorox wipes!
> 
> nope.
> 
> View attachment 32936


Had the same thing happen with an order for a couple of cases of MRE’s. I ordered them in early February from Optics Planet. Got the word a few days ago. They were being diverted for emergency relief. 
🤬


----------



## Rapid (Apr 4, 2020)

Never thought I could hate China more than I already did, but there you go, that's what you get for assumptions.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> At this point the only people less trustworthy than the media are Thai hookers with a bulge below their waists.


I dare say, good sir! Your statement is an insult to Thai ladyboy's. Next time you're in Phuket I advise you to heed the local saying, "If she has an apple she has or has had a banana". If you were not briefed on this blame the previous administration, as cavorting with such company was punishable under the UCMJ.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

Chicom cunt laughing at us as she went on her merry way buying up all the PPE that was available. This was in Florida. The commie bitch even makes remarks at the good nature of rural stores and employees.






Remember folks, these fucks were laughing at us and doing this all over the world.



Spoiler: Add On Original Source





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244689685223550979


----------



## Brill (Apr 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> At this point the only people less trustworthy than the media are Thai hookers with a bulge below their waists.



So THAT is what they meant by “diversity is their strength “.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

Explanation of Chinese Illegal trading and the clearing of items during the CCP virus panic.





Disclaimer: Take what these guys say with a grain of salt. The stuff on China usually tends to be pretty good, but they have a very progressive and uninformed way of looking at the US. Think stereotypical globalist view of America and rural America.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 4, 2020)

An example of retooling to make masks. 

Penetanguishene manufacturer adjusts operations, begins producing masks


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 4, 2020)

Well...here’s one strategy....

"Shoot them dead": Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte orders police and military to kill citizens who defy coronavirus lockdown


----------



## AWP (Apr 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well...here’s one strategy....
> 
> "Shoot them dead": Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte orders police and military to kill citizens who defy coronavirus lockdown



Run out, get shot out.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 4, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Chicom cunt laughing at us as she went on her merry way buying up all the PPE that was available. This was in Florida. The commie bitch even makes remarks at the good nature of rural stores and employees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For all the praise Cuomo gets, this shit right here shows me he needs to be recalled:  Cuomo plans to use National Guard to seize ventilators from upstate facilities



So I'm in a group chat with someone who lives in Queens and he's totally cool with taking equipment from rural hospitals and servicing NYC, but he's also defending the subways being in full operation.  Uh hello...you want to know why there's an outbreak?  Because you're fucking on the subway dumbass.  City people annoy the fuck out of me, literally the same issue with coastal people who look at the midwest with disdain.  If you take the ventilators out of these rural hospitals they will be fucked when someone gets into a car accident or the virus spreads to them.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So I'm in a group chat with someone who lives in Queens and he's totally cool with taking equipment from rural hospitals and servicing NYC, but he's also defending the subways being in full operation.  Uh hello...you want to know why there's an outbreak?  Because you're fucking on the subway dumbass.  City people annoy the fuck out of me, literally the same issue with coastal people who look at the midwest with disdain.  If you take the ventilators out of these rural hospitals they will be fucked when someone gets into a car accident or the virus spreads to them.



That clown thinks he is better than others and "his" needs outrank the needs of the serfs. He needs to be slapped over and over again....


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Put under, definitely Chinese Propaganda: 'Opportunity of the century': How the coronavirus crisis could establish China as a global leader
> 
> WTF are US media outlets doing?



I dont understand how Chinese propaganda becomes the hot news story. She's a Chinese professor in London, advocating for China. 1+1= 



AWP said:


> At this point the only people less trustworthy than the media are Thai hookers with a bulge below their waists.



At least one of those groups serves a purpose...


----------



## CQB (Apr 4, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Well I hope they give teeth to that statement, cause the Chicoms who raided y'alls supply system ain't likely to take that suggestion. Commies are roaches, asking a roach to leave your home ain't really gonna do much. Save for emboldening them.


It’s more to do with backpackers, tourists & students, some of which are Chinese (Han or otherwise), rather than business entities. If they can find something useful to do, if they’re nurses for example, they can stay. We had all up about eight cruise ships here which have just been told to go as well. The picture tells the story.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

@Tinman6 Considering the damage done by the Chicoms, I get the feeling that a large segment of the country (if not the planet) are gonna share those exact sentiments very shortly. A lot of progressive shenanigans are gonna get quashed and people are gonna be put to task over their actions.

@CQB Honestly, if I was you guys I'd be shoring up my defenses and cutting off any foreign business operations that are linked with the Chicoms. Not to sound paranoid, but if I had a 1.5 billion resource hungry commies I'd be looking at Australia for living space and resources. Like it or not, y'all are on war footing just due to your proximity to the Chicoms. Same for Japan, New Zealand, and everyone else nearby. 

Also, if the Chicoms can't have something they have the bad habit of shitting all over the thing they covet. The failed nation of North Korea and PRC missile placements on their island strongholds are a good example of this backward mentality. Seriously, if I were you guys I'd start taking stock of my bullets, beans, and bandages.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So I'm in a group chat with someone who lives in Queens and he's totally cool with taking equipment from rural hospitals and servicing NYC, but he's also defending the subways being in full operation.  Uh hello...you want to know why there's an outbreak?  Because you're fucking on the subway dumbass.  City people annoy the fuck out of me, literally the same issue with coastal people who look at the midwest with disdain.  If you take the ventilators out of these rural hospitals they will be fucked when someone gets into a car accident or the virus spreads to them.



If the subway closes, How are people supposed to get to work? Just think about healthcare workers.. If the hospital is in Manhattan and they live in Queens? Or  Brooklyn? I know nurses in NYC who don’t have cars. Those hospitals have almost no parking. What are people supposed to do? Walk? It is a 4 hour walk from Brooklyn to NYU/Presbyterian... taxi orUber? Should they be forced to live in the hospital? The subway is an essential means of transportation in the city.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 4, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> If the subway closes, How are people supposed to get to work? Just think about healthcare workers.. If the hospital is in Manhattan and they live in Queens? Or  Brooklyn? I know nurses in NYC who don’t have cars. Those hospitals have almost no parking. What are people supposed to do? Walk? It is a 4 hour walk from Brooklyn to NYU/Presbyterian... taxi orUber? Should they be forced to live in the hospital? The subway is an essential means of transportation in the city.


It's also the likely reason that NY has 4x the number of cases and deaths than the #2 state, NJ -- which has 3x the number of cases than the #3 state MI, in all likelihood because of their NY city commuters.

Cuomo and NY are being fucking idiots.  They clearly have no handle on this at all. They need to decide how serious/important it is to stop the virus.  Hearing Cuomo on the news, tells me he thinks the virus is serious.  But his actions don't match his whining.  It's pretty clear they need to close public transit for a couple weeks if they want to stop the spread.  People that need to commute can find alternative transportation or stay home.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 4, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> If the subway closes, How are people supposed to get to work? Just think about healthcare workers.. If the hospital is in Manhattan and they live in Queens? Or  Brooklyn? I know nurses in NYC who don’t have cars. Those hospitals have almost no parking. What are people supposed to do? Walk? It is a 4 hour walk from Brooklyn to NYU/Presbyterian... taxi orUber? Should they be forced to live in the hospital? The subway is an essential means of transportation in the city.



There are hotels offering to put up medical personnel at free or reduced cost So that they can be close to their hospitals and not expose their families to the virus.

Should the rural communities be forced to die of coronavirus because the big city needed the one or two respirators located in the one podunk emergency department that services unincorporated areas of the states? Should someone have to drive 65mi one way to the urban center when they could have gotten help at Podunk Med Center which was only 35 miles from their house?

See what I did there^^? Folks can Monday morning quarterback all week about this, because we literally don’t have shit else to do right now. It’s not going to accomplish anything.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 4, 2020)

I’m not being a smartass, but where do you think people go now with critical illness? Do you believe they stay in “podunk” hospitals? Or do you understand that those places transfer critically ill patients to centers with robust critical care capacity? Podunk hospitals do not have access to the same level of diagnostic systems, treatments, providers and expertise that major, mostly urban centers do. Chances are, in almost all of America, if you are on a ventilator in an ICU, You are at a major medical system hospital.
Lets take a look at N.C., which has many great local hospitals. Cape Fear, for instance serves Fayetteville and the surrounding rural areas. If you require long term hospitalization, most likely you are being transferred to Duke or UNC-CH. same goes for almost everywhere east of Greensboro. Does it make sense to take ventilators from hospitals with little experience in the long term management of critically ill patients and transferring them to a place with the in depth organizational knowledge to effectively handle patient care and large volumes? IMO yes...
@Devildoc what do you think?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 4, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> If the subway closes, How are people supposed to get to work? Just think about healthcare workers.. If the hospital is in Manhattan and they live in Queens? Or  Brooklyn? I know nurses in NYC who don’t have cars. Those hospitals have almost no parking. What are people supposed to do? Walk? It is a 4 hour walk from Brooklyn to NYU/Presbyterian... taxi orUber? Should they be forced to live in the hospital? The subway is an essential means of transportation in the city.



There are these things out there with two wheels, called bicycles. 

You do understand that the subway and it operating is likely how this thing has spread in NYC? And if we're being serious about the situation then we do a real pause and shut that shit down for at least a week, maybe two.

Same guy told me the moment the NY Stay-At-Home order went into effect, oh nothing has really changed much.  Manhattan is deserted but my neighbordhood is humming.

Supporting seizing equipment from that small hospital is asinine, you just reduced their capacity to to treat the patients in their service area.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

Today's briefing from the White House Task force. Starts at 51:30


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There are these things out there with two wheels, called bicycles.
> 
> You do understand that the subway and it operating is likely how this thing has spread in NYC? And if we're being serious about the situation then we do a real pause and shut that shit down for at least a week, maybe two.
> 
> ...



Try telling that ICU nurse that is 55, with 30 years experience to ride her fucking bike to work. That level of experience is not replaceable. Think about shutting down the freeways... that is what the subway is in NYC.

I’m trying to explain this the right way. Critically ill patients are already transferred to major hospitals. i am not going to expand too much because of HIPPA, but if you think critically ill patients are sitting on vents in regional or community hospitals you are living in a fantasy world. Critically ill patients get escalating care. The way our system is set up, those patients leave small hospitals and get sent to major ones. Whether that is right or wrong is another question. It is the way it is here in the US.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 4, 2020)

Huh... sooo this seems to vibe with the information I saw outta the CCP in February about researchers being exposed to bat fluids and blood. (before China scrubbed the article)





Bat Lady (Shi Zhengli) article:
How China’s “Bat Woman” Hunted Down Viruses from SARS to the New Coronavirus

Detailed write up:
The Trail Leading Back to the Wuhan Labs | National Review

Huang Yan Ling ResearchGate articles:
Yanling Huang's research works | Wuhan Institute Of Virology, Wuhan and other places

Add on: Cause the CCP idiots are liable to memory hole things again.


Spoiler: CCP Denial



*Wuhan graduate never infected with novel coronavirus: Virology institute*
                      By Zhang Yangfei |             chinadaily.com.cn |            Updated: 2020-02-16 14:10                                
	

	
	
		
		

		
			


















Huang Yanling, a graduate of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a subsidiary of Chinese Academy of Sciences, was not the first person infected with novel coronavirus, nor has she been infected with the virus, the institute said on Sunday.

The institute made the statement in response to information circulated widely online that Huang, a postgraduate student at the institute, was the first patient to contract the novel coronavirus pneumonia in Wuhan, Central China's Hubei province, the outbreak epicenter.

The statement said Huang graduated with a master's degree from the institute in 2015. Since graduation, she has been working and living in other provinces and has never been infected with novel coronavirus and is in good health.

"At this critical moment in the fight against the epidemic, the rumor has greatly interfered with our scientific research work. We reserve the right to take legal action according to law," the statement said.

Wuhan graduate never infected with novel coronavirus: Virology institute - Chinadaily.com.cn


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 4, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Try telling that ICU nurse that is 55, with 30 years experience to ride her fucking bike to work. That level of experience is not replaceable. Think about shutting down the freeways... that is what the subway is in NYC.
> 
> I’m trying to explain this the right way. Critically ill patients are already transferred to major hospitals. i am not going to expand too much because of HIPPA, but if you think critically ill patients are sitting on vents in regional or community hospitals you are living in a fantasy world. Critically ill patients get escalating care. The way our system is set up, those patients leave small hospitals and get sent to major ones. Whether that is right or wrong is another question. It is the way it is here in the US.


Obviously we're not going to agree here and I'm quite frustrated with what you think should happen and you think it's ok to remove capabilities from rural hospitals that need those capabilities under normal circumstances.  

Yes, patients get transferred upstream.  This ain't my first rodeo.  

Try telling a 55 yr old icu nurse to ride a bike...well dude, I know several doctors and nurses in my local community that do just that.  And the 10  mile commute on their bike is nothing from the Ironman they train for.


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 4, 2020)

*Let's take a breath before this gets more personal than it already has.

Deep breaths and stay on topic.*


----------



## AWP (Apr 5, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> *Let's take a breath before this gets more personal than it already has.
> 
> Deep breaths and stay on topic.*



I don't like overruling a fellow staff member, but I'll exercise my "admin privilege" in this case.

24 lockdown, SHU program for this thread. Some of you are going to get some counseling, not because of your beliefs or opinions, but your communication skills. 

We're better than what I'm seeing in this thread, or at least we should be better.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 5, 2020)

As we wait for this thread to re-open, here is a video of a dog playing volleyball...happy Sunday!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=637214513555937


----------



## AWP (Apr 6, 2020)

Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.

Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.

As this shit rages through NYC our friend's aunt is fine, the ER nurse with the undetrmined flu back in Dec.

We will never know when this really started in the US and any numbers we see in the upcoming years will be guesses.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 6, 2020)

We have 40-something staff out with it, and many times over on quarantine as PUI.

Our own in-house data-crunchers predicting our peak April 24-May 4.  We are getting fuller with positives, but nowhere near full yet.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks China....


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...



I've read as early as November. Though realistically it could have been Oct.


----------



## Viper1 (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...



Similar situation here. Around Christmas / New Year just about every at the office plus their kids were sick with same symptoms. We actually went to fist-bumps instead of handshakes because of it. No telling if it was the beginning of this current strain or not.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...



I've posted about it earlier in the thread. But it is likely that the actual "patient" zero was walking around Wuhan in October, and given how contagious we've seen this thing be, and the interconnectivity between Wuhan and a lot of the West via air travel it is likely this virus hit our shores at Thanksgiving or just after.

Cheap meds from China isn't our only source...Cheap meds from India.  India has banned export of Hydroxychloroquine.  We're going to need to force Big Pharma to have a significant but scalable capacity to product drugs here.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...



Same same.  We had four?  Maybe five people in my department out of work mid-January for "influenza-like illness", who swabbed negative for flu and strep.  Almost same symptoms as this.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 6, 2020)




----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 6, 2020)

They are kidding, right?


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> They are kidding, right?
> 
> View attachment 33041


I'm in all three zones every day, what does that make me?

LL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 6, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> I'm in all three zones every day, what does that make me?
> 
> LL


Normal?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 6, 2020)

The CDC's COVID-19 Surveillance Report for Week 13: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/pdf/covidview.pdf


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 6, 2020)




----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 6, 2020)

Cat is going first!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 6, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> Cat is going first!


Got your back!


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Got your back!


i just pissed my pants laughing


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 6, 2020)




----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 6, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> i just pissed my pants laughing


Sounds like a prime candidate for a subscription to How Our Adult Incontinence Subscription Service Works - Men's Adult Diapers, Women's Adult Diapers

LL


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 6, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Sounds like a prime candidate for a subscription to How Our Adult Incontinence Subscription Service Works - Men's Adult Diapers, Women's Adult Diapers
> 
> LL



Can't say this forum doesn't look out for one another.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 6, 2020)

A little chuckle.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 6, 2020)

Also a potential treatment. 



> Tests showed the drug reduced levels of the virus by 99.8 per cent within 48 hours. It had been completely eliminated after three days.


Medicine prescribed for SCABIES stops the coronavirus replicating


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 6, 2020)

Totentanz said:


> Can't say this forum doesn't look out for one another.


Age is an inevitably foregone conclusion. At least for those of us on this side of the dirt.

Notice I admirably refrained from defining his gender for him? I may be a boomer but I'm woke that way...

LL


----------



## Steve1839 (Apr 6, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> I'm in all three zones every day, what does that make me?


I'll withhold comment in order to snicker...


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We have 40-something staff out with it, and many times over on quarantine as PUI.
> 
> Our own in-house data-crunchers predicting our peak April 24-May 4.  We are getting fuller with positives, but nowhere near full yet.


Yesterday I was talking to a doc friend about the impact at his hospital. The actual virus impact here is pretty negligible in terms of infected, etc. He says this is pretty true for all hospitals in our area.

However, economic impact is huge.  Hospitals make most of their money on elective procedures/surgeries, which are cancelled.  Overall visits are way down.  ER is quiet.  The hospitals are hemorrhaging money.

Result?  He's having to look at temporarily laying off 20% of his staff (and his is not elective based stuff).  The problem is these aren't necessarily immediate rebound type activities for them..and it doesn't solve the funding flaw in their operating model.


----------



## Brill (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...



Last month, my youngest in Brooklyn had a friend return from Japan. He got sick and a week later she had a fever, massive headache and malaise that lasted 3-4 days. As she was on the upswing, she got laid off.

I sent her the link for the Mt Sinai ???plasma/serum??? study they’re doing and she hopes she can help but that means riding the train into Manhattan, which is putting her off.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 6, 2020)

Uh oh


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247244688706416641


----------



## 0699 (Apr 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that our daughter, who works at a resort in CO, was really sick back around Nov/ Dec. (I think late Nov.). Fever, sore throat, cough, etc...docs tested for strep, flu, pneumonia...everything. They sent her home with an "undetermined flu" or something similar. This "flu" swept through her resort in a week, two max.
> 
> Dec., a friend of ours who works at Disney had her family down from NYC. The aunt is an ER nurse. Several of them had an "undetermined" flu though not everyone in the family seemed to be affected despite being in close proximity.
> 
> ...


I was sicker than a dog the first full week of December.  Stayed home 3.5 days, something I never do.  Full body aches, chills/sweats, severe vaginitis, and a hacking cough.  My wife, who gets sick when the cat farts, didn't get sick at all.  I know other people who were also sick the first half of December, but there were lots of different symptoms.  I even remember commenting on how weird a flu season it was, what with so many people having so many different symptoms.

I think this means I am now immune to the coronavirus.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 6, 2020)




----------



## Dame (Apr 6, 2020)

I hate you.


----------



## AWP (Apr 7, 2020)

I never in a million years thought my Tinder photo would be a meme....

---



LibraryLady said:


> I'm in all three zones every day, what does that make me?
> 
> LL



Your husband is on the forum, you stand no chance at an honest answer.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 7, 2020)

White House Covid Presser 4/6/2020 (Starts at 1:12:08)





@ 2:38:10 POTUS talk about the letter incident caused by the Captain of USS Roosevelt, he even talks about Crozier's service record and rise to command.

Add on: I've set these videos to start as POTUS and company take the podium. If that doesn't work, the time the presser starts at will be listed above the video.

Correction: Mistook the Roosevelt for the Ford. Apologies.


----------



## CQB (Apr 7, 2020)

Meanwhile...

China outraged after Brazil minister suggests Covid-19 is part of 'plan for world domination'


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 7, 2020)

AWP said:


> ...
> Your husband is on the forum, you stand no chance at an honest answer.



He is?

LL


----------



## Grunt (Apr 7, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> photo



Now that I have seen what should never be seen, I have to find some icepicks and kerosine....


----------



## Brill (Apr 7, 2020)

”Your silence, Mr President, on the two tigers contracting COVID is deafening.”  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247336289688485893


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 7, 2020)

NC stats:  3,251 cases, 354 hospitalized, 53 deaths.

My institution (as of 0500 today):  tested more than 3,854 patients, with 281 positive results; have also tested more than 1,700 health team members with 67 positive.

My institution's cracks: we are getting PPE from different vendors, and not all if it looks the same, so staff are freaking out.  We are rounding trying to put out fires and re-educate.  Also, guidelines of use/re-use based on availability changes every other day, so we are constantly teaching new procedures for cleaning, storing, what gets tossed, what gets saved.  Another huge crack: we have a command center, but have not instituted a HICS plan, so we have a bunch of chiefs sending out contradictory info.  My boss asked me to not go back to the command center because I showed my ass about unity of command and failure of communications.

We've all been burning the midnight oil putting in 60, 70, and 80 hour weeks, so my department is going to start rotating staff to 'work from home' (i.e., take care of yourself, hand off assignments, etc) and being at work.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We've all been burning the midnight oil putting in 60, 70, and 80 hour weeks, so my department is going to start rotating staff to 'work from home' (i.e., take care of yourself, hand off assignments, etc) and being at work.



That's good to hear. Worn out bodies equals diminished ability to fight.

Take care of yourself, Brother....


----------



## Brill (Apr 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> My institution (as of 0500 today):  tested more than 3,854 patients, with 281 positive results; have also tested more than 1,700 health team members with 67 positive.



Are you seeing any correlations between risk factor, age, lifestyle, etc and hospitalizations?

Separately, this thread is an interesting read of a coupl’s experience with COVID.

Thread by @MaggieAstor: My husband and I are recovering from COVID-19. We’re getting better. But it’s taken more than two weeks to say that, and that was with the “…


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> Are you seeing any correlations between risk factor, age, lifestyle, etc and hospitalizations?
> 
> Separately, this thread is an interesting read of a coupl’s experience with COVID.
> 
> Thread by @MaggieAstor: My husband and I are recovering from COVID-19. We’re getting better. But it’s taken more than two weeks to say that, and that was with the “…



Back in the early days I knew one of our docs who had it; he said he thought it was "just allergies" until he got a "mild" fever, which you don't get with allergies.  He was fine in 4 or 5 days, back at work.  He is the anomaly.  Most people I have seen, talked to, or followed, it's kicking their asses.

As for hospitalizations, definitely older and with (usually) respiratory or cardiac disease.  I think we have around 20 hospitalized.  None of the staff have had to be hospitalized.


----------



## Brill (Apr 7, 2020)

Damn it @Devildoc , I have a cough that I’m chalking up to allergies (from runny nose).

Give ‘em hell Doc!


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> Damn it @Devildoc , I have a cough that I’m chalking up to allergies (from runny nose).



You know how the south is, that evil, nasty yellow pine pollen is awful and gets me every year.  But...no fever.  That should be your differentiator.


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 7, 2020)

lindy said:


> Are you seeing any correlations between risk factor, age, lifestyle, etc and hospitalizations?
> 
> Separately, this thread is an interesting read of a coupl’s experience with COVID.
> 
> Thread by @MaggieAstor: My husband and I are recovering from COVID-19. We’re getting better. But it’s taken more than two weeks to say that, and that was with the “…


Holy crap.  That sounds brutal


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 7, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247532135843422208
The Onion hitting homers out here.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 7, 2020)

Reports are out that China was cremating live people during the pandemic. Ashes given to the grieving also mismatched, lends credibilty to the rumors that bodies were being stacked on top of each other.

China Mourns Dead as Wuhan Families Deal With Mass Cremations

Add on: WTF!? Watch the reaction of the cab driver and the vehicle behind him, when the bombshell hits. Also check out the lady's rising inflection when asked if there was was anything that could have been done to save the other patients.

(Edit: Added youtube link instead of facebook and a second article)
Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients ... | Taiwan News


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 7, 2020)

Interesting, NY had a stockpile of ventilators at one time.  Auctioned them off and didn't replace them with a newer model.

New York City stockpiled ventilators for a pandemic, only to later auction them off: report


----------



## Brill (Apr 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interesting, NY had a stockpile of ventilators at one time.  Auctioned them off and didn't replace them with a newer model.
> 
> New York City stockpiled ventilators for a pandemic, only to later auction them off: report



Outrage mob!!! Assssssssseeeeeeemmmmmmmm-ble!  (maintain 6’ separation...don‘t make it weird.)


----------



## Brill (Apr 7, 2020)




----------



## Kaldak (Apr 7, 2020)

Gotta love Wisconsin. Super Bowl wins and all 😋


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 7, 2020)

White House Covid Presser 4/7/2020 (Starts at 1:07:37)


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 7, 2020)

Mass China Virus graves in NY on Hart Island.
New York City's coronavirus dead could be temporarily buried on island


Spoiler: Video



https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/vide...988016447/640x360_MP4_7660360653988016447.mp4





Spoiler: Images


----------



## Dame (Apr 7, 2020)

Nevada is under lock and key. Have to admit I never thought it would happen here. We are rather independent and libertarian in this state. But you can hear the desperation in the Governor's voice. I feel for him.


----------



## Board and Seize (Apr 8, 2020)

Dame said:


> Nevada is under lock and key. Have to admit I never thought it would happen here. We are rather independent and libertarian in this state.



Ugh, wanted to give hate to this (not for you, but for the content!).  Even as a recent transplant myself, I feel I can say that this "Stay Home for Nevada" (directive requiring "facial covering" coming soon!) authoritarian push just shows the recent and radical change in this state from what you describe to just more California.  Courtesy of the cali/portland/seattle refugees (though I've lived there, I'm certainly not one of those) that are infesting every major city east of them.  Though we've our fair share of them up here in Washoe, most of them are down in your neck of the woods.




lindy said:


>


Are really considering 2-bit Canadians to be from the "midwest'?


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 8, 2020)

Spoiler: NSFW





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240717272475258880







Board and Seize said:


> Are really considering 2-bit Canadians to be from the "midwest'?




Also this, Wisconsians (?) are just disowned Canadians, same thing with Minnesota and North Dakota.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Spoiler: NSFW
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah.  Just never claimed.  They're wannabe Canuckistani.


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Spoiler: NSFW
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good to see Bloods & Crips uniting on a PSA project.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

So peak stupidity has reached Canada.  I'm actually surprised this didn't happen day 1.   

Judges release growing number accused of violent crimes due to COVID-19 fears


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

Not sure if I saw this posted. 

Coronavirus Australia: Ivermectin, Anti-parasitic drug kills COVID-19 in lab


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Not sure if I saw this posted.
> 
> Coronavirus Australia: Ivermectin, Anti-parasitic drug kills COVID-19 in lab



That's great.. but all my liberal friends are saying that it's all unscientific to even consider any of these things.. since it hasn't gone through clinical trials and stuff


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That's great.. but all my liberal friends are saying that *it's all unscientific to even consider any of these things*.. since it hasn't gone through clinical trials and stuff



I counter with XX and XY chromosome discussion which 100% of the time results in being labeled “racist“, which is liberal for “ok, I concede your point is in fact valid”.

If gender/sex is fluid and determined by how one feels, then if these drugs makes one feel better, are they not legitimate?

Why is medical marijuana ”ok” but these anti-COVID drugs “not” when neither groups are approved by the FDA?


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That's great.. but all my liberal friends are saying that it's all unscientific to even consider any of these things.. since it hasn't gone through clinical trials and stuff


Sign me up, can’t be worse than what the Army shot us up with


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That's great.. but all my liberal friends are saying that it's all unscientific to even consider any of these things.. since it hasn't gone through clinical trials and stuff



Taking anecdotal or very small studies and saying that it works is not the best way to do things. If it does work in some cases that is great, but if it causes people to buy medications or use medications not prescribed it is not great. It also isn’t great to have people thinking they know more than experts, and second guessing every way their friend or relative is treated. Chloroquine and azithromycin  is an example where the study was exclusive of patients in the ICU. When patients were in the trial and sent for escalating care they were excluded from the trial. It is easy to see why that doesn’t meet the scientific method for drug efficacy. If a scientist is studying the efficacy of the drug, they shouldn’t exclude people from the results if the drug didn’t work. There was a follow up study done in France that basically looked at the original study and points out all their flaws. 

Here is a great breakdown of that study:

Are hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin an effective treatment for COVID-19?

I hope people remain cautious with the prescription of these drugs. Side effects could be profound. QtC elongation(a common side effect) could lead to cardiac arrest in patients with cardiac issues or a fib. I think it is scary to allow widespread use of a drug with unknown efficacy based on anecdotal studies with flawed experimental design. I am nervous that inexperienced doctors pressed into unfamiliar territory may prescribe meds that haven't been properly vetted to patients that would not benefit. 

I hope that it is the drug it looks to be from these small studies. I am always skeptical of "wonder drugs" or "cures" that seem to good to be true. I am hopeful that the combined research, work and effort of our worlds brightest minds will find a good, well researched, treatment for this disease.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 8, 2020)

My cousin is a nurse practitioner, and she refuses to even consider it "lacking multiple randomized control trials".  I told her this is a pandemic, an emergency, it's time to forego normal SOP and FDA bureaucracy.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 8, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Taking anecdotal or very small studies and saying that it works is not the best way to do things. If it does work in some cases that is great, but if it causes people to buy medications or use medications not prescribed it is not great. It also isn’t great to have people thinking they know more than experts, and second guessing every way their friend or relative is treated. Chloroquine and azithromycin  is an example where the study was exclusive of patients in the ICU. When patients were in the trial and sent for escalating care they were excluded from the trial. It is easy to see why that doesn’t meet the scientific method for drug efficacy. If a scientist is studying the efficacy of the drug, they shouldn’t exclude people from the results if the drug didn’t work. There was a follow up study done in France that basically looked at the original study and points out all their flaws.
> 
> Here is a great breakdown of that study:
> 
> ...



QtC is actually not that common.  

Emergencies, wars, pandemics are a historical treasure trove of cutting edge medicine, precisely because it's not "business as usual".


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 8, 2020)

lindy said:


> I counter with XX and XY chromosome discussion which 100% of the time results in being labeled “racist“, which is liberal for “ok, I concede your point is in fact valid”.
> 
> If gender/sex is fluid and determined by how one feels, then if these drugs makes one feel better, are they not legitimate?
> 
> Why is medical marijuana ”ok” but these anti-COVID drugs “not” when neither groups are approved by the FDA?



Just the last part there, your statement isn’t entirely accurate. From the FDA:

“ FDA has approved Epidiolex, which contains a purified form of the drug substance cannabidiol (CBD) for the treatment of seizures associated with Lennox-Gastaut syndrome or Dravet syndrome in patients 2 years of age and older. That means FDA has concluded that this particular drug product is safe and effective for its intended use.

The agency also has approved Marinol and Syndros for therapeutic uses in the United States, including for nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy and for the treatment of anorexia associated with weight loss in AIDS patients. Marinol and Syndros include the active ingredient dronabinol, a synthetic delta-9- tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is considered the psychoactive intoxicating component of cannabis (i.e., the component responsible for the “high” people may experience from using cannabis). Another FDA-approved drug, Cesamet, contains the active ingredient nabilone, which has a chemical structure similar to THC and is synthetically derived. Cesamet, like dronabinol-containing products, is indicated for nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy.”

Link: FDA and Cannabis: Research and Drug Approval Process



Devildoc said:


> QtC is actually not that common.
> 
> Emergencies, wars, pandemics are a historical treasure trove of cutting edge medicine, precisely because it's not "business as usual".



If the primary comorbidity for being critically ill is cardiovascular and pulmonary disease, don’t you think it would be a significant side effect?



Devildoc said:


> Emergencies, wars, pandemics are a historical treasure trove of cutting edge medicine, precisely because it's not "business as usual".



I do agree with this.


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 8, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I do agree with this.


Slow down, there, Hoss. Please don't post as an SME, you're just a student.

You're passing judgement on @Devildoc's words, when he has a bit more experience (years!) than you.

It's important to learn to stay in your lane and learn here, not project yourself as more than you are.

I'm not saying to not post, just be a little more cognizant of the experience/knowledge of those people you're interacting with and how that measures up to your knowledge/experience.

LL


----------



## Dame (Apr 8, 2020)

This is just ridiculous. I've seen too many of these people online (FB) already. This one actually assaulted teenagers.
Louisville doctor accused of fighting teens over social distancing arrested, charged with strangulation


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 8, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Slow down, there, Hoss. Please don't post as an SME, you're just a student.
> 
> You're passing judgement on @Devildoc's words, when he has a bit more experience (years!) than you.
> 
> ...



I’ve met DevilDoc, we work at the same hospital. He taught my BLS refresher. We went to the same nursing school, I think if he looked at my resume he could vouch for my ability to contribute meaningfully to this conversation... 

My background: I have 5 years of experience in major academic medical centers as a CCRN(a pretty tough certification), am currently a DNP student, where I am a Research Assistant, and have 12 years as a paramedic.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So peak stupidity has reached Canada.  I'm actually surprised this didn't happen day 1.
> 
> Judges release growing number accused of violent crimes due to COVID-19 fears


And they wonder why people want to own guns. . .


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 8, 2020)

The FDA, like many government agencies, is mostly a self licking ice cream cone.


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Just the last part there, your statement isn’t entirely accurate. From the FDA:
> 
> “ FDA has approved Epidiolex, which contains a purified form of the drug substance cannabidiol (CBD) for the treatment of seizures associated with Lennox-Gastaut syndrome or Dravet syndrome in patients 2 years of age and older. That means FDA has concluded that this particular drug product is safe and effective for its intended use.
> 
> ...



Are those ^^^ the only chemicals that liberals are referring to when promoting the efficacy and use of medical marijuana? Further, are those same chemicals you cited the only items available in medical marijuana dispensaries or is “recreational” form available as well?  FDA approved drugs are available via pharmacy so why the “need” for dispensaries and why are other prescription drugs NOT available at a dispensary?

My point is the liberal stance regarding science is disingenuous: they use it when it supports their vision but ignore it when it doesn’t.

(For the record: if (when) I get cancer I will use the shit out of weed to counter the effects of chemo and maintain weight because of the anecdotal evidence. Same with COVID: I’ll push for the “fish tank cleaner” when I get it.)

——————
Separately but linked the the “cona”:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246894054589075458


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 8, 2020)

lindy said:


> Are those ^^^ the only chemicals that liberals are referring to when promoting the efficacy and use of medical marijuana? Further, are those same chemicals you cited the only items available in medical marijuana dispensaries or is “recreational” form available as well?  FDA approved drugs are available via pharmacy so why the “need” for dispensaries and why are other prescription drugs NOT available at a dispensary?
> 
> My point is the liberal stance regarding science is disingenuous: they use it when it supports their vision but ignore it when it doesn’t.
> 
> ...



For sure they are not. But the FDA is coming around slowly.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm having a bitch of a time with IT today, @Dvr55119 I have a great article on antimalarials and side effects, When I'm in a position I will attach it in this thread.

You're right, with antimalarials it is probably the most significant side effect, and needs to be used judiciously, especially in combination with other medications that can have the same side effect.  It is definitely one of those risk-benefit things that a practitioner needs to consider, but given the short duration of time patients are on this particular medication for coronavirus, the probability of having prolonged QT That leads to torsades de point/VT is fairly low.

As I recall the risk increases the longer you're on the drug.

I think there needs to be some sort of fast track procedure to get these drugs out and tried, I don't know what that procedure or process looks like, but there has to be a better option than trying to have a RCT which, as you all know, takes years.


----------



## LibraryLady (Apr 8, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I’ve met DevilDoc, we work at the same hospital. He taught my BLS refresher. We went to the same nursing school, I think if he looked at my resume he could vouch for my ability to contribute meaningfully to this conversation...
> 
> My background: I have 5 years of experience in major academic medical centers as a CCRN(a pretty tough certification), am currently a DNP student, where I am a Research Assistant, and have 12 years as a paramedic.



That's a much different resume than you've got on your profile. Considering the other profiles using the word "student" on this board are indicative of little to no life experience, it might be helpful for you to add a bit more so we know who is speaking to us.

The profiles are looked at here by other posters so we know who you are. Consider updating it, please.  This is a military, specifically SOF board, we prefer to know who we're speaking with. You don't mention a military background either, which if you have, I'd also recommend you getting vetted.

LL


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

This is anecdotal, but idiots in LA are going to their doctor and asking to be prescribed hydroxychloroquine.  Pharmacies are also out.  Here's a thread on dude I know, he's been freaking the fuck out on twitter about COVID-19 for awhile.  Basically doctors in LA are placating their patients by prescribing them something they don't need and no one has any stock. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247617491007721477


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I think there needs to be some sort of fast track procedure to get these drugs out and tried, I don't know what that procedure or process looks like, but there has to be a better option than trying to have a RCT which, as you all know, takes years.



DC needs to “unthaw” so bars, restaurants, and travel agents can help lobbyists as they navigate the regulations.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 8, 2020)

Dame said:


> This is just ridiculous. I've seen too many of these people online (FB) already. This one actually assaulted teenagers.
> Louisville doctor accused of fighting teens over social distancing arrested, charged with strangulation



Complete and utter panic driven by fear. It will get worse before it gets better do to the volume of sheepish people we have wondering among us....


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 8, 2020)

Dame said:


> This is just ridiculous. I've seen too many of these people online (FB) already. This one actually assaulted teenagers.
> Louisville doctor accused of fighting teens over social distancing arrested, charged with strangulation


Agreed.  I fucking hate the term (not the concept)  "social distancing". It's quickly become another label to latch on to for the SJW crowd and those that just don't know how to mind their own business.  People calling the police and taking it upon themselves to be the enforcers? Fuck off.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

Dame said:


> This is just ridiculous. I've seen too many of these people online (FB) already. This one actually assaulted teenagers.
> Louisville doctor accused of fighting teens over social distancing arrested, charged with strangulation


This dude needs to get fried.  Loss of license and YEARS behind bars.

I got a question for the dude in the video though?  Why wasn't he kicking the dog shit out that asshole?


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 8, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> That's a much different resume than you've got on your profile. Considering the other profiles using the word "student" on this board are indicative of little to no life experience, it might be helpful for you to add a bit more so we know who is speaking to us.
> 
> The profiles are looked at here by other posters so we know who you are. Consider updating it, please.  This is a military, specifically SOF board, we prefer to know who we're speaking with. You don't mention a military background either, which if you have, I'd also recommend you getting vetted.
> 
> LL



I am a CRNA student. A CRNA is a doctorate level profession in nursing. A prerequisite for admission to CRNA is a minimum of two years in critical care nursing. I guess I could have been more clear, but to me that was given information. Thanks for the advice on vetting, I will look into that.


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

Grunt said:


> Complete and utter panic driven by fear. It will get worse before it gets better do to the volume of sheepish people we have wondering among us....



This guy has been following The Model and has been calling BS on the alarmism.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247872193767395330


----------



## Dame (Apr 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This dude needs to get fried.  Loss of license and YEARS behind bars.
> 
> I got a question for the dude in the video though?  Why wasn't he kicking the dog shit out that asshole?


Agree, but at least he stepped in. He won't be charged with anything and you _know_ that idiot doctor would press charges.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

Dame said:


> Agree, but at least he stepped in. He won't be charged with anything and you _know_ that idiot doctor would press charges.


Kentucky is also a constitutional carry state, the idiot doctor is lucky he's not dead.


----------



## AWP (Apr 8, 2020)

LibraryLady said:


> Slow down, there, Hoss. Please don't post as an SME, you're just a student.
> 
> You're passing judgement on @Devildoc's words, when he has a bit more experience (years!) than you.
> 
> ...



LL,
You know I respect you greatly, as I also respect your husband who is a VERY distinguished member of this board, but please allow the staff to work issues such as these. If you think there is a problem and we have missed it or aren't working it fast enough, then please use the Report feature to bring it to our attention.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> LL,
> You know I respect you greatly, as I also respect your husband who is a VERY distinguished member of this board, but please allow the staff to work issues such as these. If you think there is a problem and we have missed it or aren't working it fast enough, then please use the Report feature to bring it to our attention.



Typical Gestapo response!


----------



## Brill (Apr 8, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I fucking hate the term (not the concept)  "social distancing".



Isn‘t the ENTIRE state of MN in perpetual “social distancing”? Or is dat just for up nord?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Typical Gestapo response!


Yeah, we can do without that.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 8, 2020)

lindy said:


> Isn‘t the ENTIRE state of MN in perpetual “social distancing”? Or is dat just for up nord?


That is more up Nord. 😊

Montana really owns this distinction.  They've been "social distancing" since 1889, which is why it's the "Last Best Place".


----------



## medicchick (Apr 8, 2020)

lindy said:


> Isn‘t the ENTIRE state of MN in perpetual “social distancing”? Or is dat just for up nord?


Eh they still got nothin' on Alaska.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

So the truth shall set you free or if it was another country, have you strung up.  We don't have the resources to quarantine everyone flying in.  Let's not ban travel from the pandemic source because it'll upset our commie friend's.  Hell, they still aren't properly screening flights in and we still get flights from China daily. 

Trudeau government didn't quarantine tens of thousands of Chinese travellers due to lack of resources


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm watching two businesses of two good friends die a slow death and Stay-In-Place has been moved to May 4th.  Not to stop anything mind you, just to delay it.  We've pushed the 'peak' to April, then to May, and now we are saying July.

Someone explain to me how it's okay to go biking, hiking, running, etc but I cannot go play golf?

I am losing patience with this shit.
________________________________________
This was an emotional rant brought on by the imminent demise of small businesses that are very near and dear to my heart....they cannot even be open for 'curbside'. I will likely re-think this rant at some point in the future and delete this post, but until then....if you are 'at risk' then stay home, but get this country open again.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm watching two businesses of two good friends die a slow death and Stay-In-Place has been moved to May 4th.  Not to stop anything mind you, just to delay it.  We've pushed the 'peak' to April, then to May, and now we are saying July.
> 
> Someone explain to me how it's okay to go biking, hiking, running, etc but I cannot go play golf?
> 
> ...




Move to Arizona, we can play golf here.  The cups are turned over, no carts, your only interaction is when you pay your green fee.  Couples only, no foursomes. 

However, I agree with you.  I don't think this response has been good at all, we're slowly destroying the Global economy. 

So, this happened:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248019725109448704


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So the truth shall set you free or if it was another country, have you strung up.  We don't have the resources to quarantine everyone flying in.  Let's not ban travel from the pandemic source because it'll upset our commie friend's.  Hell, they still aren't properly screening flights in and we still get flights from China daily.
> 
> Trudeau government didn't quarantine tens of thousands of Chinese travellers due to lack of resources


I see Canadians baying for blood when this is done. Trudeau and the liberal govt have been screwing the Canadian people over so much that I don't see how they're going to remain in power. Between letting infected Chicoms and Iranians in, letting leftist/commie backed radicals hold Canada hostage, and oil revenues being lost, I see the liberal gravy train and coming to an end. 

Considering that the coastal provinces tax the ever living crap outta y'alls oil sands sector, I can't imagine central Canada bearing the burden without growing angrier and more disillusioned. I'm sorry guys. I really hope you guys pull through, cause things were rough on y'all before this Pandemic.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I see Canadians baying for blood when this is done. Trudeau and the liberal govt have been screwing the Canadian people over so much that I don't see how they're going to remain in power. Between letting infected Chicoms and Iranians in, letting leftist/commie backed radicals hold Canada hostage, and oil revenues being lost, I see the liberal gravy train and coming to an end.
> 
> Considering that the coastal provinces tax the ever living crap outta y'alls oil sands sector, I can't imagine central Canada bearing the burden without growing angrier and more disillusioned. I'm sorry guys. I really hope you guys pull through, cause things were rough on y'all before this Pandemic.



I wish Canadian's watched or read more news than our main media sources, who happen to be funded by the Liberal's.  So they never speak ill of the Shiny Pony.  I read something this morning saying 60 some percent of Canadian's approve of his handling of this.  The Liberal's might stick around for a while with these idiots.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

Don't forget your medicine. 

A top German doctor recommends whiskey to protect against COVID-19


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Don't forget your medicine.
> 
> A top German doctor recommends whiskey to protect against COVID-19




I knew there was a reason why I was feeling great after busting into a bottle of Bulleit Rye.


----------



## CQB (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> That's great.. but all my liberal friends are saying that it's all unscientific to even consider any of these things.. since it hasn't gone through clinical trials and stuff


That’s essentially correct, but extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures, you use what’s at hand. There’s another drug, a TB drug which can inhibit COVID-19 which I think is being used in the UK. I’ll try & find the link.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 8, 2020)

Can't play catch with your daughter apparently because Brighton PD (CO) doesn't know the stay-at-home order.  Former police officer arrested in park for throwing ball with daughter due to coronavirus social distancing rules


----------



## Grunt (Apr 8, 2020)

This is beginning to be truly embarrassing to me as an American. We are going down the drain faster than I had hoped we would....


----------



## CQB (Apr 8, 2020)

With an escalation in deaths, ice rinks for mortuaries, a field hospital in Central Park, I’d be taking _every_ precaution.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Don't forget your medicine.
> 
> A top German doctor recommends whiskey to protect against COVID-19


About the only good news I've had today.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Can't play catch with your daughter apparently because Brighton PD (CO) doesn't know the stay-at-home order.  Former police officer arrested in park for throwing ball with daughter due to coronavirus social distancing rules


F that guy, former cop or not.

The park was closed.

If everyone acted like the former cop, then the park would have been packed full of people spreading this shit around.

The guy refused to leave.

The guy refused to provide I.D.

The cops warned him they would put him in handcuffs.

He argued, he got arrested. 

Good.

Last week we had a local bar get raided because the owner didn't want to stay closed.

Today I learned that a retail shop that was supposed to be closed, was still serving customers out the back door.

Tired.  T - I - R - E - D   I am about sick and fucking tired of people who believe the rules do not apply to them, and then when they get told otherwise, they get fucking butthurt about it.

Stop fucking around and keep your entitled ass at home.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> F that guy, former cop or not.
> 
> The park was closed.
> 
> ...



Hard disagree. Park wasn't closed to groups under 4 people. He broke no laws. Also, as per the stay at home order in Colorado, much like most states, it allows for outdoor activities as long as you are maintaining social distancing. The park's sign stated “in groups of no more than 4 persons, parks remain open for walking, hiking, biking, running and similar activities.” 

The fact that the police department has apologized shows they were in the wrong here.



> Colorado police have admitted that it was "evident there was an overreach by our police officers" and have apologized to a resident after arresting him at a park on Sunday in front of his 6-year-old daughter for allegedly violating social distancing rules.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The park's sign stated “in groups of no more than 4 persons, parks remain open for walking, hiking, biking, running and similar activities.”


It's a shitty written article then.  Nowhere within does it mention what you write above; it just states that the park is 'closed'.

Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 8, 2020)

Now this is something we should be expanding on. 

IDP Group of Chesterville assembling isolation ICU 'pods' for nursing homes, other critical uses | Nation Valley News


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I wish Canadian's watched or read more news than our main media sources, who happen to be funded by the Liberal's.  So they never speak ill of the Shiny Pony.  I read something this morning saying 60 some percent of Canadian's approve of his handling of this.  The Liberal's might stick around for a while with these idiots.



Didn't want to punch the "love" button but this post hit it out of the park.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm watching two businesses of two good friends die a slow death and Stay-In-Place has been moved to May 4th.  Not to stop anything mind you, just to delay it.  We've pushed the 'peak' to April, then to May, and now we are saying July.
> 
> Someone explain to me how it's okay to go biking, hiking, running, etc but I cannot go play golf?
> 
> ...


There are so many nonsensical  aspects to this whole thing, but you don't want to get me started...

So, for some normalcy in our lives, leave you with this bit of sunshine that we can all probably get behind:
‘High-ranking’ al-Shabab leader killed in U.S. strike


----------



## Dame (Apr 8, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> It's a shitty written article then.  Nowhere within does it mention what you write above; it just states that the park is 'closed'.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying.



Something else the article doesn't state is that this county WAS trying to get a $5,000 fine going for not social distancing. This situation will most likely keep that from happening. I hear the guy has a lawyer now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> It's a shitty written article then.  Nowhere within does it mention what you write above; it just states that the park is 'closed'.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying.



Most articles are these days.  But that's why I watched the video.  He was with his wife and his daugther.  The person taking the video was also at the park, but not with him until the Police decided to act stupid.  

What you have there is an unlawful detention because these officers were either not educated by their supervisor what is actually a part of the Stay-at-Home order, or they just don't give a fuck.  Either way, they just cost their department money because they were the dickheads, they were the ones that did something wrong.

When it comes to all of this? We're literally watching our freedoms erode and we're doing nothing about it.  But I suspect that if this shut down of the economy continues to drag on things will get very silly in a bad way.  If a dad is playing catch with their daughter, leave use some sense and move on.


----------



## Brill (Apr 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> When it comes to all of this? We're literally watching our freedoms erode and we're doing nothing about it.



Democrats advocate MORE Federal intervention (aggressive use of DPA, national lockdown, ceasing gun sales, State military forces on State’s borders, etc) based on data that isn’t matching reality. God forbid anyone who disagrees with the mass hysteria lest ye be labeled counterrevolutionary.



> The son shows up at high tea wearing a dirty old wrinkled African bush hat.  His mother asks him, "Why are you wearing that awful hat?"  He says, "It keeps the elephants away."
> 
> "That's absurd," she replies.  He says, "Do you see any elephants around here?"
> 
> ...


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 9, 2020)

lindy said:


> Democrats advocate MORE Federal intervention (aggressive use of DPA, national lockdown, ceasing gun sales, State military forces on State’s borders, etc) based on data that isn’t matching reality.



To your point, I don't see any ice giants...


----------



## Brill (Apr 9, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> To your point, I don't see any ice giants...



Shit WORKS!


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 9, 2020)

Now this is gone to far!! 

With restaurants closed, a bacon backup is building in Minnesota and hog prices are plunging


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 9, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Now this is gone to far!!
> 
> With restaurants closed, a bacon backup is building in Minnesota and hog prices are plunging


If I lived in MN I'd be buying the crap outta bacon and freezing it. Heck, even without freezing sealed bacon can last for a very long time in the fridge. Then there's all the things you can do with bacon... dehydrated bacon, bacon pemmican, candied bacon, oven baked bacon, bacon bits, etc. For cheapskate bacon enthusiasts this should be a god send. 

Not to mention all that bacon grease. (Insert Homer Simpson colloquialism here)


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If I lived in MN I'd be buying the crap outta bacon and freezing it. Heck, even without freezing sealed bacon can last for a very long time in the fridge. Then there's all the things you can do with bacon... dehydrated bacon, bacon pemmican, candied bacon, oven baked bacon, bacon bits, etc. For cheapskate bacon enthusiasts this should be a god send.
> 
> Not to mention all that bacon grease. (Insert Homer Simpson colloquialism here)



NC is one of the leading pork producers in the US, so it's pretty cheap anyway.  The prices are starting to fall some, so it's a great time to stock up.

RE: bacon grease, I doubt I am the only one who grew up in a home with a mother who kept a mug or can of it on the back of the stove.  My mother seasoned almost everything with it.


----------



## Dame (Apr 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> NC is one of the leading pork producers in the US, so it's pretty cheap anyway.  The prices are starting to fall some, so it's a great time to stock up.
> RE: bacon grease, I doubt I am the only one who grew up in a home with a mother who kept a mug or can of it on the back of the stove.  My mother seasoned almost everything with it.


My mom had a coffee can of it. I keep mine in a glass container in the fridge. Refried beans and other such wonderful things are had here.


----------



## Jaknight (Apr 9, 2020)

Pork is the devils flesh that is all


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 9, 2020)

As much as everything sucks, you gotta roll with the punches and enjoy the little things while you can.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 9, 2020)

I’ll eat everything on a pig but the oink. Bacon glut? I’m buying a chest freezer! 🤣


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 9, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I’ll eat everything on a pig but the oink. Bacon glut? I’m buying a chest freezer! 🤣



Do explain the savory taste of those pig yarbles....


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 9, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Pork is the devils flesh that is all


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> As much as everything sucks, you gotta roll with the punches and enjoy the little things while you can.
> 
> View attachment 33147


You have any idea how many pounds of bacon I have cooked in 3 weeks? About 15lbs and I got 3 lbs in the fridge to cook later


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 9, 2020)

Interesting stuff:  Defense official says media reports about November coronavirus intel assessment are false


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 9, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Pork is the devils flesh that is all


Taliban Troll outs himself.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 9, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Pork is the devils flesh that is all


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 9, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> You have any idea how many pounds of bacon I have cooked in 3 weeks? About 15lbs and I got 3 lbs in the fridge to cook later


Nice! You ever make you own? Last year I was doing the keto thing and realized how pricey bacon was getting. So during the fall I got my hands on some pork loins, prague powder, and made British rasher and Canadian Maple bacon.

If you have fridge space and a vacuum sealer it might be a fun little project. There are plenty of recipes online and by the end of quarantine you'll end up with some homemade bacon. If pork prices are falling, I'd try to jump on that situation and maybe even learn how to make sausage and other swine products.

Quarantine and social distancing sucks, but hey maybe more Americans will transition to making more food at home.

@Devildoc It's awesome that pork is well priced over there. I noticed that grocery prices were always higher on the coasts.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 9, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Nice! You ever make you own? Last year I was doing the keto thing and realized how pricey bacon was getting. So during the fall I got my hands on some pork loins, prague powder, and made British rasher and Canadian Maple bacon.
> 
> If you have fridge space and a vacuum sealer it might be a fun little project. There are plenty of recipes online and by the end of quarantine you'll end up with some homemade bacon. If pork prices are falling, I'd try to jump on that situation and maybe even learn how to make sausage and other swine products.
> 
> ...


I usually buy from the butcher


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interesting stuff:  Defense official says media reports about November coronavirus intel assessment are false


Yep, the media are scum...


----------



## CQB (Apr 9, 2020)

Mainly focused locally but interesting data

One number can tell us whether Australia's coronavirus outbreak is getting worse


----------



## Dame (Apr 9, 2020)

And the Chinese ain't done yet.
Zoom's Data Sailing Into China: FBI Issues Warning of Counterintelligence Threat - ClearanceJobs

*Zoom’s Data Sailing Into China: *
*FBI Issues Warning of Counterintelligence Threat*
The counterintelligence issue with Zoom lays in the fact that the application routes the meeting encryption keys required by their home-grown encryption scheme to route through servers located in China.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 9, 2020)

Well it's only been a matter of time.  The Emergencies Act is our version of Martial Law, replaced the War Measures Act.  



> The Emergencies Act — which came into effect in 1988 —  gives the federal government sweeping powers to regulate or prohibit travel, requisition and use property, order qualified people to provide essential services, regulate the distribution of goods, resources and services and establish emergency shelters and hospitals.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-province-letter-1.5526496


----------



## Dame (Apr 9, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Well it's only been a matter of time.  The Emergencies Act is our version of Martial Law, replaced the War Measures Act.
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-province-letter-1.5526496




Awe shit, Rack. I'm so sorry.


----------



## Brill (Apr 9, 2020)

“Mostly” martial law @RackMaster .

What would Jacques Cartier do????


----------



## Brill (Apr 9, 2020)

Democrats, again, delay opportunity for additional funds to help small businesses until they can add pork to the spending.

Senate adjourns until Monday after Democrats block McConnell's bid to add $250 billion in small business aid

This is ridiculous. The USG issued “guidance“ which State governors followed and NOW a business owner has to suck up to politicians in order to get funds to keep their business afloat.

@Ooh-Rah , Madam Speaker says your friends don’t need the money.

Nancy Pelosi Claims There’s ‘No Data’ To Prove Small Businesses Need More Emergency Funds


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 9, 2020)

lindy said:


> “Mostly” martial law @RackMaster .
> 
> What would Jacques Cartier do????



That's the good thing, there's a lot of oversight written into it but the last person to invoke similar laws was Trudeau Senior.  And I don't trust the clown.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 9, 2020)

You know it's bad when you have to cut your own hair... #HomeFade


----------



## CQB (Apr 9, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Well it's only been a matter of time.  The Emergencies Act is our version of Martial Law, replaced the War Measures Act.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-province-letter-1.5526496


We have the same here, The Biosecurity Act 2017. I don't think we'll get there as our courts are still designated an essential service. The basis of these Acts is to use any means to mitigate the threat (whatever it is) & really I'm not that concerned with the measures. IMO it's not about the Left restricting freedom of choice etc., but rather getting over the crisis. More of a concern is our Reserve Bank initiated Quantitative Easing about a week ago.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 10, 2020)

Supplies the Chicoms sent to France... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248456343050059784


----------



## Dame (Apr 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Supplies the Chicoms sent to France...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248456343050059784



From China with Love


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 10, 2020)

Imagine that. 

America was hit with COVID-19 from two continents, studies suggest


----------



## Brill (Apr 10, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Supplies the Chicoms sent to France...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248456343050059784



Trojan CEO sees this, turns to the COO, “Remind me again how to pronounce the city where our new factory is?”

Trojan COO opens silverware drawer.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 10, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Apr 10, 2020)

I've had concerns about this medication from the start. 

French hospital stops hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19 patient over major cardiac risk


----------



## Board and Seize (Apr 10, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> America was hit with COVID-19 from two continents, studies suggest



I'm having a hard time finding the link, but a couple weeks ago I found something showing the mutation/strains of Corona/COVID-19 and even then there were already 8 distinct strains IIRC.

Slate Star Codex, which I've written about before in my erisology thread, has probably the best info, data, and takes on Corona available on the internet.

Check a few of these posts out to get a sense, then keep an eye on the site - there's a new corona update just about every week:

March 2: CORONAVIRUS: LINKS, SPECULATION, OPEN THREAD
March 19: CORONALINKS 3/19/20
March 23: FACE MASKS: MUCH MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO KNOW
March 27: CORONALINKS 3/27/20: WE’RE NUMBER ONE
April 10: CORONALINKS 4/10: SECOND DERIVATIVE

This is a site where it's definitely worth looking through the comments.  You'll find thoughts on and links to all kinds of stats, data visualizations, and studies (on any topic, but on these posts it's pretty much all corona, all the time).


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 10, 2020)

Follow up to an earlier post I made several days ago, this is indicative of the hospital situation in MN:
Statement: Mayo Clinic confirms temporary furloughs, salary reductions


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 10, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> I'm having a hard time finding the link, but a couple weeks ago I found something showing the mutation/strains of Corona/COVID-19 and even then there were already 8 distinct strains IIRC.
> 
> Slate Star Codex, which I've written about before in my erisology thread, has probably the best info, data, and takes on Corona available on the internet.
> 
> ...



Which explains why people recovered are testing positive again.  Multiple strains at work.


----------



## AWP (Apr 10, 2020)

This is going to change our world much, much more than 9/11.


----------



## Dame (Apr 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> This is going to change our world much, much more than 9/11.


Already has. Goodbye freedom. Goodbye rights. Goodbye to minding your own fucking business.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248690233081806848


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> This is going to change our world much, much more than 9/11.


Meanwhile, I wonder what next our governor will sign a “executive order” for ... in the spirit is protecting our safety....

Gov. Tim Walz issues executive order providing COVID-19 locations to first responders


----------



## “The Old Man” (Apr 11, 2020)




----------



## Blizzard (Apr 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> This is going to change our world much, much more than 9/11.


Agreed.  How often do you think the "in the interest of public safety" card is going to get pulled -- at various levels?!  It's being overly dramatic to suggest this a genuine threat to our liberty if we continue down this slippery slope.

Small business is getting hammered and those that aren't going under are drowning themselves in loans.

It will be interesting to see how universities and colleges change.  How many students will never return?

Hospitals are getting crushed because they can't perform the profitable procedures that keep them solvant.

Retirement funds are being obliterated.

There's the secondary impacts to kids and their activities as it pertains to social interaction.

There are a lot reasons for us to step back and re-evaluate the current approach.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 11, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile, I wonder what next our governor will sign a “executive order” for ... in the spirit is protecting our safety....
> 
> Gov. Tim Walz issues executive order providing COVID-19 locations to first responders


He has gotten so ridiculous with these executive orders; way over stepping.

I love our first responders but I can't get behind this at all.  What purpose does it serve? Are they not going to respond to calls at these areas? Why would they take any different precautions then they otherwise would? This is just the latest in a series of terrible ideas.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> This is going to change our world much, much more than 9/11.


More like Pearl Harbor, except the bombs have been replaced by a Chicom virus and our populace is the Pacific Fleet.


Ooh-Rah said:


> Meanwhile, I wonder what next our governor will sign a “executive order” for ... in the spirit is protecting our safety....
> 
> Gov. Tim Walz issues executive order providing COVID-19 locations to first responders





Blizzard said:


> Agreed.  How often do you think the "in the interest of public safety" card is going to get pulled -- at various levels?!  It's being overly dramatic to suggest this a genuine threat to our liberty if we continue down this slippery slope.
> 
> Small business is getting hammered and those that aren't going under are drowning themselves in loans.
> 
> ...


As long as our populace is armed, we can take those who've abused their power to task when this foreign attack is over. Think of it like this. We've been caught in an ambush, any beef can be settled when we assault through or break contact.

After the American populace deals with the shit heads and aristocrats, who've gone drunk with power, we need to rain fire on the Communists that did this to our nation. China did this and they have 1.5 billion reasons to grow past their territory, subjugate us, and take over the world's resources. If you don't believe me, check out events like the Numic Expansion and the waves of human migration into the America's. People and cultures are just like any other critter on earth, we expand, take over resources, subjugate, and/or assimilate existing populations.

As for the people making life hard for you now, the bureaucrats drunk on power, guess who bought and paid for them? Guess which politicians have been selling or sold us out for Chicom cash? This is all China, it's always been China. The sooner the populace wakes up to this the better we will be.


----------



## Kraut783 (Apr 11, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> He has gotten so ridiculous with these executive orders; way over stepping.
> 
> I love our first responders but I can't get behind this at all.  What purpose does it serve? Are they not going to respond to calls at these areas? Why would they take any different precautions then they otherwise would? This is just the latest in a series of terrible ideas.



This is taking a bit out of hand.....we have been doing this for years....just puts an alert on the CAD system to take universal precautions at location. Used a lot during the high point of AIDS/HIV. We had a lot of disturbances between "couples" that would beat the crap out each other and there would be a lot of blood. We are doing it now with the COVID-19 thing, doesn't change the response...just gives PD and Fire a bit of notification. Not sure why it took an executive order from the governor...sounds like just politics.


----------



## Kraut783 (Apr 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Already has. Goodbye freedom. Goodbye rights. Goodbye to minding your own fucking business.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248690233081806848



If the commute system is going to mandate this for paying customers, they need to provide them.   WAY over response by the PD.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Already has. Goodbye freedom. Goodbye rights. Goodbye to minding your own fucking business.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248690233081806848


That is seriously messed up.

These are the actions we're allowiing to be justified? Shameful.


----------



## Brill (Apr 11, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> If the commute system is going to mandate this for paying customers, they need to provide them.   WAY over response by the PD.



But...  

With courts closed by pandemic, Philly police stop low-level arrests to manage jail crowding


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 11, 2020)

Troops are ready. 

‘This is a war’: Military prepares for fight against coronavirus pandemic


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 11, 2020)

Crowder, haven't seen any of his stuff for awhile, but hey let's smack WHO.  I'm here for this!



lindy said:


> But...
> 
> With courts closed by pandemic, Philly police stop low-level arrests to manage jail crowding



Not really much of a change in Philly, the DA doesn't back the cops at all.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> But...
> 
> With courts closed by pandemic, Philly police stop low-level arrests to manage jail crowding


----------



## Brill (Apr 11, 2020)

Meanwhile...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248626349998129152


----------



## Dame (Apr 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> But...
> 
> With courts closed by pandemic, Philly police stop low-level arrests to manage jail crowding


Oh they didn't arrest him. Just threw him out of a perfectly good bus with no chute.   

Incidentally, if I were still a horny old widow, I'd be heading to Philly with no mask just to ride the bus. A couple of "Oh baby, yeah right there" might cure these guys of this buffoonery. Well, at least from me.


----------



## Brill (Apr 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Oh they didn't arrest him. Just threw him out of a perfectly good bus with no chute.
> 
> Incidentally, if I were still a horny old widow, I'd be heading to Philly with no mask just to ride the bus. A couple of "Oh baby, yeah right there" might cure these guys of this buffoonery. Well, at least from me.



Someone beat ya to it.

Woman grinds on cop during arrest: ‘You like that?’


----------



## Dame (Apr 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> Someone beat ya to it.
> 
> Woman grinds on cop during arrest: ‘You like that?’


AWESOME!


----------



## CQB (Apr 11, 2020)

2/5ths of Fives eyes would disagree regarding the restriction of personal rights & freedom & other measures, particularly the smallest member, as restriction of movement & social distancing looks to work. Brother Pardus posted not so long ago with first hand experience, I’d recommend taking a look at it if you missed it. But then if you’re too focussed on trivial matters instead of survival...

Aussie nurse Yanti has worked in virus outbreaks before. But what she's seeing in the US is 'terrifying'


----------



## Dame (Apr 11, 2020)

CQB said:


> 2/5ths of Fives eyes would disagree regarding the restriction of personal rights & freedom & other measures, particularly the smallest member, as restriction of movement & social distancing looks to work. Brother Pardus posted not so long ago with first hand experience, I’d recommend taking a look at it if you missed it. But then if you’re too focussed on trivial matters instead of survival...



Yup, I do remember.



pardus said:


> Covid 19 is noting that I'm concerned about, at all. In fact I would like to contract it sooner rather than later. I'm doing everything I can to follow the rules regarding PPE etc... at work and I don't want to be responsible for giving it to an elderly/sick person, but as a healthy "young" person my risk is so small that I'm in the slightest worried about it.
> The media has blown this BS virus all out of proportion IMO. Yes it's highly contagious, but so what? Our populations need to be exposed (hopefully via vaccine) in order to not allow this to be truly deadly when it mutates, which it is/will.



Now, @pardus is probably going to outlive us all and have his pick of abandoned real estate. But in the mean time, I'm not ready to give up our Constitution.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 11, 2020)

There was an interesting discussion on Joe Rogan's podcast about why Germany seems to be combating this pretty effectively.
I forget the term his guest (Michael Shermer) used, but it the statement was along the lines of:

"German citizens, as a culture, tend to obey more government guidelines, whereas Americans hear beaches are shutting down and say fuck you, it's my right to be on the beach".

IE, we tend to be shitheads who won't stop doing things until it has a punishment attached to it.

ETA: Not that I'm agreeing with governmental overreach or police chasing people for being alone on the beach, but I've seen and heard the dickheads up in Denver and other areas that were throwing parties/raves/bbqs just to say fuck you when the stay at home orders came out.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> *"German citizens, as a culture, tend to obey more government guidelines, whereas Americans hear beaches are shutting down and say fuck you, it's my right to be on the beach".*


Government guidelines like "round up those people with the yellow stars" or "fire up those ovens"?  I'm good with American culture just the way it is.  Maybe even a little more liberal.

_Not DNC leftist-liberal, like Vermont "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" liberal..._


----------



## Brill (Apr 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> IE, we tend to be shitheads who won't stop doing things until it has a punishment attached to it.



That same mentality is why we do not speak English. Wait. You know what I mean.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 11, 2020)

0699 said:


> Government guidelines like "round up those people with the yellow stars" or "fire up those ovens"?  I'm good with American culture just the way it is.  Maybe even a little more liberal.
> 
> _Not DNC leftist-liberal, like Vermont "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" liberal..._



Right, not like we dont have a history of blindly taking Rights away from those the government/authorities dont like in a similar time period.

Strawmen aside; the main point is Americans tend to react to something like these guidelines by explicitly doing what they are asked not to do.

There's dozens of stories of people who organized "pandemic parties" only once stay at home orders were put in place.
It's a drunk girl at a bar who slaps a bouncer, but is somehow mad at him when she gets thrown out.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 11, 2020)

Not just Germany either, most of the Eastern European countries tend to respond pretty placidly to the government as well, it's simply what they have been used to.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Apr 11, 2020)

OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS
(1) The SARS-CoV-2 virus is highly stable in the natural environment, but it is easily destroyed using standard means of disinfection.
(2) Surgical masks CANNOT be reused if there was any potential for contamination as virus was still viable after 7 days on the outer layer and up to 7 layers on the inner layer!
(3) Hand soap alone does not destroy the virus. While hand soap will remove the virus from the skin, it will not destroy it! Consider following up with a barrier cream or alcohol-based hand sanitizer (be careful to not over-use and cause skin cracking).
DATA
Stability on Surfaces At Room Temperature (22C):
- Tissues: < 3 hr
- Paper: < 3 hr
- Cloth & wood: < 2 days
- Glass: < 4 days
- Steel: < 7 days
- Plastic: < 7 days
- Outer layer of surgical mask: > 7 days (still 0.1% remained)
- Inner layer of surgical mask: < 7 days
Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2
- Bleach (1:49), Bleach (1:99), Ethanol (70%), Providone-Iodine (7.5%), Chloroxylenol (0.05%), Chlorhexidine (0.05%), and Benzalkonium chloride (0.1%): < 5 min
- Hand soap solution (1:49): > 5 min, but < 15 min
REF: Chin et al., Lancet (online 2 April)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...7uFqs6JOr8Bd_Q-Cmvp3jJMD7XAPmVL5sZyShzLja5uYQ


----------



## Brill (Apr 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Right, not like we dont have a history of blindly taking Rights away from those the government/authorities dont like in a similar time period.
> 
> Strawmen aside; the main point is Americans tend to react to something like these guidelines by explicitly doing what they are asked not to do.
> 
> ...



There is some hope.



> “But two days ago, citing the need for social distancing during the current pandemic, Louisville’s Mayor Greg Fischer ordered Christians not to attend Sunday services, even if they remained in their carsto worship –and even though it’s Easter.”
> 
> “The Mayor’s decision is stunning,” the opinion concludes. “And it is,’beyond all reason,’ unconstitutional.”



‘Stunning’ And ‘Unconstitutional’: Judge Grants Restraining Order After KY Mayor Vowed To Record License Plates Of Easter Church Goers


----------



## CQB (Apr 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> Yup, I do remember.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, @pardus is probably going to outlive us all and have his pick of abandoned real estate. But in the mean time, I'm not ready to give up our Constitution.


Yep, understood, but if asymtomatic carriers are infecting others it makes good sense not to move around.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 11, 2020)

CQB said:


> 2/5ths of Fives eyes would disagree regarding the restriction of personal rights & freedom & other measures, particularly the smallest member, as restriction of movement & social distancing looks to work. Brother Pardus posted not so long ago with first hand experience, I’d recommend taking a look at it if you missed it. But then if you’re too focussed on trivial matters instead of survival...
> 
> Aussie nurse Yanti has worked in virus outbreaks before. But what she's seeing in the US is 'terrifying'



Mate, NZ didn't fight a war to kick King George and Parliament off their islands.

Americans are a Free People.  I would in fact say the foundations of our government are extremely unique.  Telling people they can't be free is ripe with creating problems.  We're already seeing companies sell our data to newspapers so they can write articles about how we're not social distancing enough.  Or we could do the opposite, and be the gestapo that is SK and use that same data to arrest people.

I will pass on that level of idiocy. 

I don't know what that Nurse really thinks she's seeing.  We are truly staying home.  And because of that our economy will be fucked into smithereens.

New Orleans had a major outbreak due to Mardi Gras, New York had a Major outbreak due to the Chinese New Year Parade and St Patrick's day.  I know many people in New Orleans and I also know LEOs in NOLA, people aren't just continuously violating the stay-at-home order.  The French Quarter is closed for bidness.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ...The French Quarter is closed for bidness...



Indeed they are....


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 11, 2020)

The Pandemic: Where We Stand Now


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 11, 2020)

It's good to see the good come out of this. 

Doug Ford joins Haley Wickenheiser to collect PPE for healthcare workers in Toronto


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The Pandemic: Where We Stand Now


Mate, we just crossed 20k deaths in under 2 months.  The time for “this is not even as bad as a seasonal flu” takes has long passed. Even the CDC estimates over 70k deaths before we’re done with this thing at the low end.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 11, 2020)

Can we all agree that it's an apples and oranges comparison to use the flu?

The big year everyone is using for flu deaths is 2017-2018 flu season

True, there were about 61K deaths due to influenza, up to a possible 95k.

This is a lot, but there were an estimated 45 million cases that year, with roughly 20.7 million hospital visits.

We're currently at 532K (confirmed) cases, with 21K deaths.

Even if we assume it's like the flu, where roughly half will visit the hospital, that still only puts us at about 1.1-1.2 million exposed.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Mate, NZ didn't fight a war to kick King George and Parliament off their islands.



No we didn't but what about Australia, where CQB is from?


----------



## Dame (Apr 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Can we all agree that it's an apples and oranges comparison to use the flu?
> The big year everyone is using for flu deaths is 2017-2018 flu season
> True, there were about 61K deaths due to influenza, up to a possible 95k.
> This is a lot, but there were an estimated 45 million cases that year, with roughly 20.7 million hospital visits.
> ...


Agree. This is not the flu. But I do not believe giving up our rights is the cure. It will never be gone. We are self isolating to the point of insanity. Voluntarily. But not forever.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 11, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> OPERATIONAL IMPLICATIONS
> (1) The SARS-CoV-2 virus is highly stable in the natural environment, but it is easily destroyed using standard means of disinfection.
> (2) Surgical masks CANNOT be reused if there was any potential for contamination as virus was still viable after 7 days on the outer layer and up to 7 layers on the inner layer!
> (3) Hand soap alone does not destroy the virus. While hand soap will remove the virus from the skin, it will not destroy it! Consider following up with a barrier cream or alcohol-based hand sanitizer (be careful to not over-use and cause skin cracking).
> ...



Great post. 


CQB said:


> Yep, understood, but if asymtomatic carriers are infecting others it makes good sense not to move around.



This is the crux of the problem, the only way to prevent these people from spreading is via appropriate social distancing.


Cookie_ said:


> Can we all agree that it's an apples and oranges comparison to use the flu?
> 
> The big year everyone is using for flu deaths is 2017-2018 flu season
> 
> ...



This is absolutely not the flu, not in scale or scope, certainly not in fatality rate. Comparing it to the flu is a weak argument, which I was initially guilty of. 



Dame said:


> Agree. This is not the flu. But I do not believe giving up our rights is the cure. It will never be gone. We are self isolating to the point of insanity. Voluntarily. But not forever.



It is voluntary, and I hope it continues. I don’t hope for my own sake as I am 33, healthy and work out six days a week. I hope it continues for those that are diabetic, have hypertension, asthma, transplants, autoimmune disorders, people who work in grocers, hospitals, and transportation. I hope we continue so our boomer population isn’t decimated. I hope we continue so multiple generations aren’t bankrupted by medical bills they can’t afford.


----------



## CQB (Apr 12, 2020)

Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?


It was posted a couple weeks back I believe. The timelines might be off, but it's certainly in this thread somewhere.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?


I saw it via a few sources. 

IRT AUS, I spent  a week in Perth and it was amazing.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 12, 2020)

Epoch Times did a pretty good job presenting this in a digestible manner.


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?



You know some of us ”heard” that. 

(SIGINT humour)


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> (SIGINT humour)



Such an odd breed...


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Even the CDC estimates over 70k deaths before we’re done with this thing at the low end.



An unbelievable number to be sure but how many have recovered? Unemployment is 2-3% (think estimated 20 million out of work) and may go up to 30%...all that damage for estimated 70k dead?

Why can’t low risk folks and those that have recovered got back to “normal”?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?


Last I saw it was at around 1-2 million but that was weeks ago, I think. 21 million is mindblowing, especially considering how social credit scores are directly tied to cell phone numbers.


lindy said:


> An unbelievable number to be sure but how many have recovered? Unemployment is 2-3% (think estimated 20 million out of work) and may go up to 30%...all that damage for estimated 70k dead?
> 
> Why can’t low risk folks and those that have recovered got back to “normal”?
> 
> View attachment 33223


It beats the initial estimate of 2 million plus dead. Which roughly would've amounted to 1 in 165 Americans succumbing to the disease, never mind the secondary and tertiary deaths that would have been attributed to supply, medical, and utility chains breaking down.

Honestly, I think countries everywhere were trying to buy time to beef up logistical systems and test therapeutics. Cause China's virus is going to rip through the global population regardless. Hopefully this lockdown bought us enough time to get resources ready for the second wave.

Containment was never really an option as people are selfish, idiotic, and blind. We're not outta the woods yet.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 12, 2020)

Scrubbed research article
https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.i...0192-5eb8307f-017c-4075-a697-348628da0204.pdf


----------



## Board and Seize (Apr 12, 2020)

This YouTube channel is a guy who lived in China for a decade or so and went fairly native.  He's back in the states now and has been reporting on the virus.  He's also got a video on the 21MM lost subscribers.

Good stuff.


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> An unbelievable number to be sure but how many have recovered? Unemployment is 2-3% (think estimated 20 million out of work) and may go up to 30%...all that damage for estimated 70k dead?
> 
> Why can’t low risk folks and those that have recovered got back to “normal”?
> 
> View attachment 33223



I too have wondered where the line is between balancing lives against livelihoods. It's great when you take extreme measures to protect as many as possible, but if you go all Soviet Union at the same time, what's the point? I'm not a decision maker, and I'm glad I'm not in the position to have to decide, but being a leader requires you to make hard choices. What that hard choice is...I dunno.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> An unbelievable number to be sure but how many have recovered? Unemployment is 2-3% (think estimated 20 million out of work) and may go up to 30%...all that damage for estimated 70k dead?
> 
> Why can’t low risk folks and those that have recovered got back to “normal”?
> 
> View attachment 33223



Well there are also those cases where People are out running marathons a couple months ago and are now on life support.

70k deaths is what we are going to have with social distancing. We go to hundreds of thousands without it.


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I too have wondered where the line is between balancing lives against livelihoods. It's great when you take extreme measures to protect as many as possible, but if you go all Soviet Union at the same time, what's the point? I'm not a decision maker, and I'm glad I'm not in the position to have to decide, but being a leader requires you to make hard choices. What that hard choice is...I dunno.



I think the “wartime footing” was valid as @R.Caerbannog notedwhen models forecast 2mil dead but those SAME once incorrect models are now right at 70k deaths?

I‘m going to say no.

The reality is our decision makers will be butchered by the media if they open the states and US tomorrow or in the Fall so there isn’t any downside.


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> 70k deaths is what we are going to have with social distancing. *We go to hundreds of thousands without it.*



The UW model has ALWAYS included full social distancing as well as self isolation.

edit: the model has lowered it to just over 61k.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> I think the “wartime footing” was valid as @R.Caerbannog notedwhen models forecast 2mil dead but those SAME once incorrect models are now right at 70k deaths?
> 
> I‘m going to say no.
> 
> The reality is our decision makers will be butchered by the media if they open the states and US tomorrow or in the Fall so there isn’t any downside.



A point on the modeling; it isn't that the models projecting 2 million were wrong, just older.

These models are getting new data amd figures pumped into them on a daily basis. 
The 70K projection is just using (when it was created) the newest information.


----------



## Dame (Apr 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> Incidentally, has anyone else come across information saying that Chinese cellphone users dropped by 21 million on last years figures?


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A point on the modeling; it isn't that the models projecting 2 million were wrong, just older.
> 
> These models are getting new data amd figures pumped into them on a daily basis.
> The 70K projection is just using (when it was created) the newest information.



The IHME has always been a fantasy. Johns Hopkins is saying the case fatality ratio is around 6%. The peer-reviewed published Lancet article puts Ohio at 4%. They are using the algorithm > Number recorded deaths / Number confirmed cases. Depending on location and using that same model establishes a case-fatality rate is likely somewhere between 1.38% and 6%. 

A German study just estimated as low as .37%, Diamond Princess Cruise was .66%. The German study can be criticized for sure as it's a small population in Gangelt, but the answer is likely still on the lower end. The 6% from Johns Hopkins is incredibly misleading and has had 90,000 US cases go 'missing' 3 days ago, but they are working to get them back USA cases decreased by ~90,000? #2093.

Unfortunately a lot of media outlets and leaders are using Johns Hopkins peer reviewed Lancet published work with big scary numbers to instill fear.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 12, 2020)

Well, I have reached the saturation point of fear mongering and no longer believe any of the numbers provided....


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> A point on the modeling; it isn't that the models projecting 2 million were wrong, just older.
> 
> These models are getting new data amd figures pumped into them on a daily basis.
> The 70K projection is just using (when it was created) the newest information.



Upon revelation of new data, I now project the Chiefs to win Super Bowl LIV by 11 points.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The IHME has always been a fantasy. Johns Hopkins is saying the case fatality ratio is around 6%. The peer-reviewed published Lancet article puts Ohio at 4%. They are using the algorithm > Number recorded deaths / Number confirmed cases. Depending on location and using that same model establishes a case-fatality rate is likely somewhere between 1.38% and 6%.
> 
> A German study just estimated as low as .37%, Diamond Princess Cruise was .66%. The German study can be criticized for sure as it's a small population in Gangelt, but the answer is likely still on the lower end. The 6% from Johns Hopkins is incredibly misleading and has had 90,000 US cases go 'missing' 3 days ago, but they are working to get them back USA cases decreased by ~90,000? #2093.
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of media outlets and leaders are using Johns Hopkins peer reviewed Lancet published work with big scary numbers to instill fear.



On the last point, you hit the nail on the head. We have more to fear from fear of this virus than the actual virus itself. Additionally, the concern I have with the numbers is that it's not based on assessed/projected cases, but only CONFIRMED. So if you aren't high risk or dying of pneumonia many places won't see you and the numbers won't get counted. Here at my base I did a food drop for a friend who was told with high certainty that they had it, but they wouldn't test. Same thing happened to a friends daughter.

Additionally, regardless of cause of death, they're being very liberal with coronavirus death attribution that'll certainly force the numbers higher than they are. It'll be interesting to see the actual numbers in a few years, if we can ever get even semi-reliable estimates on total infection vs death rate instead of just the very limited confirmed case numbers.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 12, 2020)

I mean... look at this. IHME's model is good as long as 5,000 or 500 people die today. Model successful /sarc


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

From model experts:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248302159403331586
note: “...our estimates will change, *much like weather forecasts adjust*.”

Massive Easter storm system threatens 95 million, includes tornadoes and tennis ball-size hail

95 MILLION AMERICANS THREATENED!!!!! SHUT DOWN THE ENTIRE SOUTH!!!!!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> I think the “wartime footing” was valid as @R.Caerbannog noted when models forecast 2mil dead but those SAME once incorrect models are now right at 70k deaths?
> 
> I‘m going to say no.
> 
> The reality is our decision makers will be butchered by the media if they open the states and US tomorrow or in the Fall so there isn’t any downside.


Honestly, I think we're gonna be on wartime footing for a while. The world can't let China off the hook for this. Sucks our MSM outlets are CCP shills and have dual loyalties. When this is over we need to go medieval on the CCP, WHO, and the pro china MSM shills.

On the bright side, the country will be opening up soon; most likely in stages. Americans have pulled together and done a really good job by staying at home and lowering the curve. All in all, we've gained time for research to be done, rules & regs regarding treatment to be streamlined, and mobilized our assets.

Not trying to fear monger or be ghoulish, but the second wave of the 1918 pandemic was what really stacked up the bodies. Just cause numbers are low now don't mean they won't shoot up again.


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 12, 2020)

Grunt said:


> Well, I have reached the saturation point of fear mongering and no longer believe any of the numbers provided....






Spoiler: American Gods...Fear



MR.WORLD: Fear is the product of the imagination. It's made up in the mind.
The mind can dream and think of anything.
You love fear.
You love horror.
You pay money for a pair of three-dimensional glasses and popcorn for an hour and a half of anxiety.
Something on Earth that keeps people thinking is the idea that it can end at any moment.
Fear has no end.
Fear is limitless.
Fear thrives and feeds on itself, preparing you for calamity, preparing you to believe that the most important things are the most dangerous.
If it's real in your mind, it's real in the world. The more you believe the more you believe.

Humans like the idea that love makes the world go round. It doesn't. You don't lock your doors at night because you love thy neighbor; you deadbolt with reinforced steel because you fear thy neighbor. Fear is order. Fear is control. Fear is safety. Fear is fiction. 80 years ago, actor Orson Welles announced to audiences in a chilling radio performance that Martians were invading New Jersey, leading terrified listeners to believe that Earth was under attack by hostile aliens. Before this moment, people in America did not conceive of what an alien spacecraft might look like.They did not believe an alien attack could happen. What made it real was the fear that it could exist, and the fact that it was feared so deeply meant that it did exist. Believing is seeing.



100%


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The IHME has always been a fantasy. Johns Hopkins is saying the case fatality ratio is around 6%. The peer-reviewed published Lancet article puts Ohio at 4%. They are using the algorithm > Number recorded deaths / Number confirmed cases. Depending on location and using that same model establishes a case-fatality rate is likely somewhere between 1.38% and 6%.
> 
> A German study just estimated as low as .37%, Diamond Princess Cruise was .66%. The German study can be criticized for sure as it's a small population in Gangelt, but the answer is likely still on the lower end. The 6% from Johns Hopkins is incredibly misleading and has had 90,000 US cases go 'missing' 3 days ago, but they are working to get them back USA cases decreased by ~90,000? #2093.
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of media outlets and leaders are using Johns Hopkins peer reviewed Lancet published work with big scary numbers to instill fear.



It's the old Twain quote;

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

There are going to be institutes that assume more liberal or conservative (not in political sense) spread and lethality of the virus. 

My point is none of these institutions are "lying" or "making up" data, but using different metrics to make the models.

On that note, the models are nowhere near as important to look at as the actual numbers we're getting.

Places of relatively high urban population (NYC, Chicago, LA, Seattle) are getting rocked, especially if they are designed around public transport. 

That should be what's looked at when reopening the economy. 

To use the state where I live; maybe Denver metro area/Colorado Springs doesn't open up quite yet, but Pueblo and other less hit cities do. 

This doesn't make sense to be an all or nothing thing, both for locking down and opening up


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 12, 2020)

A great resource to fact check any info on the virus. 

Home - Infotagion


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Intel Nerd said:


> Additionally, regardless of cause of death, they're being very liberal with coronavirus death attribution that'll certainly force the numbers higher than they are. It'll be interesting to see the actual numbers in a few years, if we can ever get even semi-reliable estimates on total infection vs death rate instead of just the very limited confirmed case numbers.



What leads you to believe this? Specifically here in the United States?


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's the old Twain quote;
> 
> There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
> 
> ...



It's hard to believe they are truly getting rocked by watching citizen journalists checking in on things, and/or looking at the lack of using the USNS Comfort. I'm not dismissing the fact that it may be rough in these microcosms, just that I don't care and want to get on with my life. Locking down a country and taking away more and more of my personal liberties is complete bullshit


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> It's hard to believe they are truly getting rocked by watching citizen journalists checking in on things, and/or looking at the lack of using the USNS Comfort. I'm not dismissing the fact that it may be rough in these microcosms, just that I don't care and want to get on with my life. Locking down a country and taking away more and more of my personal liberties is complete bullshit



Here is something that speaks to why the Comfort and Army field hospital are not being used to capacity. 

USNS Comfort, Javits Center still largely empty of NYC coronavirus patients


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 12, 2020)

Bypass said:


> My Sister has the Corona Virus in Georgia. She is a school teacher.


How's your sister and her family doing?  Hope she's recovering/recovered


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Here is something that speaks to why the Comfort and Army field hospital are not being used to capacity.
> 
> USNS Comfort, Javits Center still largely empty of NYC coronavirus patients


I don't know about Javits, but it was widely reported early on that the Comfort was never intended for Covid patients; it was intended as a reliever for more "standard" type hospital patients. When and why did this change?

My question is this, did NYC not designate certain hospitals as Covid-19 locations? If not, why?

That said, 75% of those with the virus don't require any hospitalization or special treatment anyway.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't know about Javits, but it was widely reported early on that the Comfort was never intended for Covid patients; it was intended as a reliever for more "standard" type hospital patients. When did this change?
> 
> My question is this, did NYC not designate certain hospitals as Covid-19 locations? If not, why?
> 
> That said, 75% of those with the virus don't require any hospitalization or special treatment anyway.



I had seen that originally as well. I thought they were going to be handling non COVID response, like traumas, emergent heart caths, and that kind of stuff. That NY Post article implies they were only for the sickest COVID patients. So idk.


----------



## Intel Nerd (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> What leads you to believe this? Specifically here in the United States?



Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Intel Nerd said:


> Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"



Thanks. Seems like the right thing to do.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I had seen that originally as well. I thought they were going to be handling non COVID response, like traumas, emergent heart caths, and that kind of stuff. That NY Post article implies they were only for the sickest COVID patients. So idk.


Me neither and I'm not saying it couldn't be right but I'm going to take a healthy dose of skepticism as to the accuracy of that article. It has too many gaps and just doesn't align with other reports.

I know hammering on the media gets old, but I don't know why it's so difficult for journalists to do their jobs. Many are just  putting out pure shit and I have no idea why.  It's as though they lack any critical thinking skills. They unnecessarily complicate the entire problem and have no accountability.


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> A great resource to fact check any info on the virus.
> 
> Home - Infotagion



MISLEADING. DO NOT SHARE.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> It's hard to believe they are truly getting rocked by watching citizen journalists checking in on things, and/or looking at the lack of using the USNS Comfort. *I'm not dismissing the fact that it may be rough in these microcosms, just that I don't care and want to get on with my life.* Locking down a country and taking away more and more of my personal liberties is complete bullshit



I want to make it clear upfront that I'm not trying to be flippant or confrontational with this comment, but the people I see with this sentiment are usually people who aren't likely to be affected by this anyway.

I don't see many in healthcare, public service, or those current "essential" employees (mostly low wage service industry) not caring about this. 

We keep arguing that it's not that bad in these cities, negating the fact that the average citizens' lives and social interactions have been drastically reduced; I bet there's a correlation there.

We need more widespread testing yesterday, and we need a slow opening of most businesses, with protections for workers that need to continue isolation for personal safety. 

Hard agree on the civil liberties though; we've got enough data now to attempt to treat this with a scalpel as opposed to a bonesaw.


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> My point is none of these institutions are "lying" or "making up" data, but using different metrics to make the models.



100% agree but decisions are being made based on “bad” data.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249335616174776321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249058489177178113


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Here is something that speaks to why the Comfort and Army field hospital are not being used to capacity.
> 
> USNS Comfort, Javits Center still largely empty of NYC coronavirus patients



Comfort and Mercy were deployed to relieve the strain of "normal" hospital visits on the hospital systems. It weird in the IHME model stating that we have an ICU bed shortage when it appears to me the surged capacity in certain places it's not being used. The Javits Center Field Hospital is meant to service COVID-19 patients though. 

Inslee (Governor of Washington) returned a field hospital to the Federal Government early last week.  Interestingly he chose to do it only after three days of the hospital being open for business.  However, in three days they had seen zero patients.  

So for now I'm looking at those shortages in the IHME model skeptically.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> 100% agree but decisions are being made based on “bad” data.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249335616174776321
> ...


I'll add to this, the fact the media and leaders continue to report and talk about this in terms of total cases is ridiculous.  A running total is irrelevant.

What matters is the number of active cases, which is a much different metric.  As an ex. today, MN Dept of Health reports 1,621 cases in MN.  However, they don't report in terms of active cases; ie they don't adjust for those that are recovered.  When looking at just active cases, the number is 779.

Another interesting note about the current active cases, the past few weeks the number of net new cases was on a shallow upward curve averaging 28 net new cases per day.  Something happened with the way the reported today that added 145 net new cases; this is a significant outlier in that is more than double the peak anywhere previously.

Overall, in MN, while number of daily active cases continues to increase moderately (adding ~100 new cases every 5 days), the number of daily deaths both as actual and in terms of percentage have remained relatively flat; slight increase.


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 12, 2020)

Intel Nerd said:


> Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"



Shit, in China if someone dies, that person never existed anyway. 



Blizzard said:


> I'll add to this, the fact the media and leaders continue to report and talk about this in terms of total cases is ridiculous.  A running total is irrelevant.



It's number manipulation and done all the time. "America corona cases grow to 100,000!" or "USA deaths exceed the total number of deaths in Italy!" 

When you look at the numbers, 100,000 looks like a lot, but it isn't. It's way more engaging and scary than saying .03 % of the population... or when you compare a country with 328m people to one of 60m. It doesn't sound so sexy and appealing if they state we have only 20% of the number of deaths to overall population when compared to Italy. One makes it sound out of control, the other like we're doing a great job. Great doesn't sell, panic does.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 12, 2020)

*dudes too


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Thanks. Seems like the right thing to do.



If the right thing is to inflate the numbers of deaths for future funding, sure... still incredibly irresponsible.

It's my understanding that people are still dying out there of other causes. If an asymptomatic person dies of a heart attack, but had been confirmed for COVID, they are now considered dead because of COVID


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> 100% agree but decisions are being made based on “bad” data.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249335616174776321
> ...



"Compliance checks"?  I would have the state police chasing me like I was one of the Duke brothers in the General Lee....

I have a very deep-seated lack of appreciation for these mandatory stay-at-home orders....


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> ... still incredibly irresponsible.



Par for the course here.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215181451190251520
The replies are golden.


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 12, 2020)

I swore that was an April 1st article until I clicked on it.


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> Par for the course here.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1215181451190251520
> The replies are golden.


Of course, nobody read past the headline:



> The new coronavirus doesn’t appear to be readily spread by humans, but researchers caution that more study is needed.
> 
> HONG KONG — Chinese researchers say they have identified a new virus behind an illness that has infected dozens of people across Asia, setting off fears in a region that was struck by a deadly epidemic 17 years ago.
> 
> There is no evidence that the new virus is readily spread by humans, which would make it particularly dangerous, and it has not been tied to any deaths. But health officials in China and elsewhere are watching it carefully to ensure that the outbreak does not develop into something more severe.



Edit: Not even the headline.  Didn’t read past the TWEET


----------



## Brill (Apr 12, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Of course, nobody read past the headline:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Not even the headline.  Didn’t read past the TWEET



The info isn’t wrong; it’s older.

(just messin with ya @Cookie_ )


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 12, 2020)

lindy said:


> The info isn’t wrong; it’s older.
> 
> (just messin with ya @Cookie_ )


Then why post it as an example of inaccurate information?


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> If the right thing is to inflate the numbers of deaths for future funding, sure... still incredibly irresponsible.
> 
> It's my understanding that people are still dying out there of other causes. If an asymptomatic person dies of a heart attack, but had been confirmed for COVID, they are now considered dead because of COVID



That just seems like a straw man argument that you have no evidence for. They don’t even test every admission to the hospital. Do you have an example of  an asymptomatic person dying then being found to have it, and that then having that reported as a COD?


----------



## AWP (Apr 12, 2020)

You know how people make fun of hurricane models? How many of those people are hanging on every word from the IHME and other places?

It's like The Office meme: "Corporate needs you to find the difference between this picture and this picture."

They're the same picture.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

I just want to clarify, in hospital settings at least with  EPIC they have this thing called “principal hospital problem”. In an inpatient setting, that is the thing that caused the hospitalization. That may not be the final cause of death, for instance, a post op heart surgery patient may die from another problem, like.... pneumonia, or sepsis. The final straw is the cause of death. So sure people with heart failure may be listed as dying from corona virus caused pneumonia, because that is what is killing them. They were living in some stage of HF then got a sickness and died from it. That is the COD. They aren’t taking dead car accident victims and attributing them to COVID. People are still dying of strokes, STEMI’s and various other maladies. 

I’ve been in these rooms with people dying from this, not for long due to my current role, but I have been there. It is awful. I don’t want to see my dad or FIL die from this because they are 65+ and have hypertension like every other male their age.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 12, 2020)

AWP said:


> You know how people make fun of hurricane models? How many of those people are hanging on every word from the IHME and other places?
> 
> It's like The Office meme: "Corporate needs you to find the difference between this picture and this picture."
> 
> They're the same picture.



Oh man, I can tell you I was paying pretty close attention to the tornado modeling over Alabama today. It might as well have been "All of the tornadoes will hit here" with a big arrow pointed at my parents' house. (everyone's fine, house is fine, just standard Springtime in the South stuff going on)


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 12, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> That just seems like a straw man argument that you have no evidence for. They don’t even test every admission to the hospital. Do you have an example of  an asymptomatic person dying then being found to have it, and that then having that reported as a COD?



Didn't realize this was an argument and it's definitely not a strawman, just an accurate example of what would be considered based on Dr. Birx's remarks. It's not a difficult articulation. Someone that dies from anything, and also has COVID, is counted as being dead because of COVID.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 12, 2020)

I don't believe the fact that if someone dies "with" COVID in their bodies should necessarily count as their cause of death *until* they are somehow further examined through autopsy or some other method. A lot of what is being done currently has not been done in the past. The numbers simply don't match the hype and fear that is being pushed.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Didn't realize this was an argument and it's definitely not a strawman, just an accurate example of what would be considered based on Dr. Birx's remarks. It's not a difficult articulation. Someone that dies from anything, and also has COVID, is counted as being dead because of COVID.



Ok.


----------



## CQB (Apr 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Shit, in China if someone dies, that person never existed anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You bet, a percentage of apples is still a percentage of apples.


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Then why post it as an example of inaccurate information?



Is COVID-19 transmissible between humans?


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Devildoc we were talking before about chloroquine and azithromycin, I couldn’t find the actual study, but it points to the risk these drugs can pose to the CV circuitry. Small sample size for sure. 

Small Chloroquine Study Halted Over Risk of Fatal Heart Complications


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Interesting perspective on the Fear Factor. I think there’s validity to this idea.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249428733833904133


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Oh man, I can tell you I was paying pretty close attention to the tornado modeling over Alabama today. It might as well have been "All of the tornadoes will hit here" with a big arrow pointed at my parents' house. (everyone's fine, house is fine, just standard Springtime in the South stuff going on)



Hope they have power!


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 13, 2020)

lindy said:


> Interesting perspective on the Fear Factor. I think there’s validity to this idea.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249428733833904133



This is similar to the comparison between American citizens and German (or as @Devildoc stated, most European) citizens I brought up a few pages back;

We (as a populace) tend not to do something until forced, by laws or fear, to do it, and that makes us shoot ourselves in the foot with our rights.

Stuff like the Life Tabernacle Church service scares people, especially when you can see how a Megachurch in South Korea accounted (cant find a newer source right now) for most of that country's cases.

It's legitimate fears of things like that that becomes people happily accepting Kentucky 
taking down license plate/VIN numbers.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 13, 2020)

Crisis leads to innovation. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/spartan-covid19-test-kit-new-1.5530669


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 13, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> @Devildoc we were talking before about chloroquine and azithromycin, I couldn’t find the actual study, but it points to the risk these drugs can pose to the CV circuitry. Small sample size for sure.
> 
> Small Chloroquine Study Halted Over Risk of Fatal Heart Complications



Thanks for sharing.  On the one hand I think the risk is overblown.  How many millions of people have we put on these meds (for a variety of reasons)?

On the other hand, the combo does potentiate the effect, and in the most at-risk population, there does need to be some judicious use.

I can't help but wonder why this seems to *suddenly* be a problem.  

Another article for conideration.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 13, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Thanks for sharing.  On the one hand I think the risk is overblown.  How many millions of people have we put on these meds (for a variety of reasons)?
> 
> On the other hand, the combo does potentiate the effect, and in the most at-risk population, there does need to be some judicious use.
> 
> ...



I think the problem isn't suddenly new, it's just getting attention now and hopefully this leads to a better understanding if the benefits truly outweigh the dangers.  I think especially among the military community, we should be very cautious about the offbook use of any antimalarial.  I definitely trust Dr. Nevin's concerns over the use of chloroquine. 



> The Quinism Foundation Warns of Dangers from Use of Antimalarial Quinolines Against COVID‑19 Use of Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine, Mefloquine, Quinine, and Related Quinoline Drugs Risks Sudden and Lasting Neuropsychiatric Effects from Idiosyncratic Neurotoxicity WHITE RIVER JUNCTION, VT. (PRWEB) MARCH 20, 2020  The Quinism Foundation has warned of a risk of sudden and lasting neuropsychiatric effects from the use of antimalarial quinolines against COVID‑19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, and has urged policy makers, physicians, and members of the public to be alert to such effects.  “The same endosomotropic properties that likely underlie the effectiveness of quinoline antimalarial drugs such as chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine against the virus may also underlie their dangers, ” said Dr. Remington Nevin, MD, MPH, DrPH, a Johns-Hopkins trained psychiatric epidemiologist and drug safety expert and former U.S. Army public health physician, who now serves as Executive Director of The Quinism Foundation. “These are not safe drugs.”  “In susceptible individuals, these drugs act as idiosyncratic neurotoxicants, potentially causing irreversible brain and brainstem dysfunction, even when used at relatively low doses,” said Dr. Nevin. “This drug-induced dysfunction causes a disease of the brain and brainstem called quinoline encephalopathy, or quinism, which can be marked acutely by psychosis, confusion, and risk of suicide, and by lasting psychiatric and neurological symptoms.”  “Symptoms of chronic quinoline encephalopathy include tinnitus, dizziness, vertigo, paresthesias, visual disturbances, nightmares, insomnia, anxiety, agoraphobia, paranoia, cognitive dysfunction, depression, personality change, and suicidal thoughts, among others, ” said Dr. Nevin. “Particularly among military veterans, in whom these drugs have been widely used for decades as prophylactic antimalarials, these symptoms can mimic and be mistaken for those of post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury.”  Dr. Nevin noted a recent report by an ad-hoc committee of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine identified a critical need for additional research on the long-term effects of antimalarial quinolines. Dr. Nevin also emphasized that the Quinism Foundation has recently called on Congress to fund research into chronic quinoline encephalopathy [1].  Dr. Nevin noted that antimalarial drugs of the quinoline class are amphiphilic weak bases, which lead to their accumulation in acidic cellular endosomes. Dr. Nevin noted that during World War II-era studies, when many antimalarial drugs of the quinoline class were first synthesized, clinical researchers found that many caused a syndrome marked by psychosis, confusion, dizziness, and other psychiatric, cognitive, and neurologic adverse effects [2]. Dr. Nevin noted that other researchers studying the drugs’ toxicity in animals noted they caused widespread and irreversible neurotoxic injury to neurons throughout the brainstem and limbic system [3].  “Although antimalarial quinolines have been commonly prescribed and used by millions of people for prevention of malaria, and more recently, in the treatment of autoimmune diseases, a substantial minority will need to discontinue the drugs early during use owing to the development of prodromal neuropsychiatric symptoms,” said Dr. Nevin.  Dr. Nevin noted that mefloquine (previously marketed as Lariam) now contains a boxed warning, cautioning of the need to immediately discontinue the drug at the onset of even seemingly mild symptoms such as abnormal dreams, nightmares, insomnia, anxiety, depression, restlessness, or confusion, as these may be considered “prodromal to a more serious event”. “What could be more serious than anxiety, depression, restlessness, or confusion?” asked Dr. Nevin. “The answer is the risk of permanent neuropsychiatric disability and suicide noted by the drug’s manufacturer and by drug regulators.”  Dr. Nevin said that he was troubled by rising interest among members of the public in obtaining chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, and mefloquine without a doctor’s prescription or public health oversight. “Lax regulation and unethical business practices have resulted in these drugs being widely available for purchase online without proper oversight,” said Dr. Nevin.  Dr. Nevin noted his concern that members of the public may even attempt to obtain therapeutic quantities of quinine through questionable channels. “Tonic water, whose bitter taste is produced by the addition of quinine or related naturally-occurring quinolines, is limited by U.S. Food and Drug Administration regulations to 83 mg per liter of quinine and related cinchona alkaloids,” said Dr. Nevin. “However, drinking several bottles of tonic water will result in consuming pharmaceutical quantities, and therefore potentially harmful, amounts of these drugs”, said Dr. Nevin. “Tonic water is a prescription medication masquerading as a cocktail mixer.”  Dr. Nevin emphasized the importance of recognizing and properly reporting adverse effects from these medications to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. “While it may be tempting to attribute anxiety, depression, paranoia, or other mental health symptoms to the psychological effects of the COVID‑19 pandemic, ” said Dr. Nevin, “these symptoms may be an early warning sign of idiosyncratic neurotoxicity, and must be taken seriously.”  Dr. Nevin noted that adverse effects from chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, mefloquine, quinine, and even tonic water may be reported to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s MedWatch program, at MedWatch: FDA Safety Information & Adverse Event Reporting Program.  About The Quinism Foundation The Quinism Foundation, founded in January 2018, in White River Junction, Vermont, promotes and supports education and research on quinism, the family of medical disorders caused by exposure to quinoline drugs, including mefloquine, tafenoquine, and chloroquine.  Dr. Nevin is a board-certified occupational medicine and preventive medicine physician and former U.S. Army medical officer and epidemiologist. He is author of more than 30 scientific publications on malaria and the quinoline antimalarials, including “Neuropsychiatric Quinism: Chronic Encephalopathy Caused by Poisoning by Mefloquine and Related Quinoline Drugs,” published in the Springer Nature book, “Veteran Psychiatry in the US.” (Neuropsychiatric Quinism: Chronic Encephalopathy Caused by Poisoning by Mefloquine and Related Quinoline Drugs).  References 1. The Quinism Foundation. The Quinism Foundation and Veterans for Common Sense Call on Congress to Fund Research into Chronic Quinoline Encephalopathy. March 9, 2020. Available at: The Quinism Foundation and Veterans for Common Sense Call on Congress to Fund Research into Chronic Quinoline Encephalopathy.  2. Nevin RL, Croft AM. Psychiatric effects of malaria and anti-malarial drugs: historical and modern perspectives. Malaria journal. 2016;15:332. Available at: Psychiatric effects of malaria and anti-malarial drugs: historical and modern perspectives.  3. Nevin RL. Idiosyncratic quinoline central nervous system toxicity: Historical insights into the chronic neurological sequelae of mefloquine. International journal for parasitology Drugs and drug resistance. 2014;4(2):118-125. Available at: Idiosyncratic quinoline central nervous system toxicity: Historical insights into the chronic neurological sequelae of mefloquine.




https://quinism.org/press-releases/dangers-of-antimalarial-quinolines-against-covid-19/


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 13, 2020)

Sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus

I'm calling it now... This will be Trump's Benghazi


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

Not sure if this was posted, but this is what China was doing in the South China Sea...

https://www.philstar.com/opinion/20...-philippines-reefs-while-donating-virus-tests


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus
> 
> I'm calling it now... This will be Trump's Benghazi



But he doesn’t even drink, so how could he have balls deep into a box of “quality” Chardonnay when the call came in at 3 am?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

Denmark will reopen schools for Children 11 and under on Wednesday.  Why Denmark is taking steps to open up again


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 13, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus
> 
> I'm calling it now... This will be Trump's Benghazi



Eh, I think (regardless of which side of the aisle you're on) we can probably find more egregious examples. Even if the reports are true that Modly only removed Crozier because Trump wanted him fired after that letter leaked, Trump still has a few degrees of separation on this particular case.

Now, the coronavirus response at large? That might be something.



ThunderHorse said:


> Denmark will reopen schools for Children 11 and under on Wednesday.  Why Denmark is taking steps to open up again




This is good, and what we need to initiate ourselves.
Slow, methodical reopening of most of the country.

Granted, that makes sense, so we'll probably see states reopen everything at once and then act surprised if numbers spike


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Looks interesting.

NIH begins study to quantify undetected cases of coronavirus infection



> People interested in joining this study should contact clinicalstudiesunit@nih.gov. For more information on the COVID-19 Pandemic Serum Sampling Study Launch, see the Questions and Answers. For more information on this study, please visit ClinicalTrials.gov using identifier NCT04334954. For more information on the U.S. government response to the COVID-19 pandemic, visit www.coronavirus.gov.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

This twitter feed is a fucking mess.  Central Community Team (@CentralBedsCPT) | Twitter

The social media manager is doing one thing right now...that's agitating this PDs community.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This twitter feed is a fucking mess.  Central Community Team (@CentralBedsCPT) | Twitter
> 
> The social media manager is doing one thing right now...that's agitating this PDs community.




Probably my favorite response.


----------



## Dame (Apr 13, 2020)

What's a rum baba?


----------



## Brill (Apr 13, 2020)

Dame said:


> What's a rum baba?



@Viper1, your mission, should you chose to accept it.

It's Good to Welcome Back the Retro-Classic Rum Baba

This post will self select for deletion upon @AWP ’s discovery.


----------



## Dame (Apr 13, 2020)

lindy said:


> @Viper1, your mission, should you chose to accept it.
> It's Good to Welcome Back the Retro-Classic Rum Baba
> This post will self select for deletion upon @AWP ’s discovery.


I'm afraid to click that. And I'm not afraid of much.

ETA: OK. Think I need to make these.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

Dame said:


> I'm afraid to click that. And I'm not afraid of much.


Don't be afraid...unless you're trying to slim down during this hibernation period...like I was...but now I'm going to buy ingredients to make rum babas and get fat.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 13, 2020)

The amount of people I've came across right now that think gloves are a replacement for hand washing, or that wearing and changing gloves is more effective than washing hands is astounding.


----------



## Steve1839 (Apr 13, 2020)

Dame said:


> ETA: OK. Think I need to make these.


I concur.


----------



## Dame (Apr 13, 2020)

Well it looks like I'm home until at least June. I am having a hard time believing they will continue to pay me. Anyone else have any insight on how contractors are to be handled?


----------



## CQB (Apr 13, 2020)

The WHO has just defended China’s reopening of wet markets. What a useless organisation.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 13, 2020)

Dame said:


> Well it looks like I'm home until at least June. I am having a hard time believing they will continue to pay me. Anyone else have any insight on how contractors are to be handled?


DoD Guidance says full pay for the duration.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 13, 2020)

So Mark Cuban is not happy:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1249853644108857344


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 14, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> The amount of people I've came across right now that think gloves are a replacement for hand washing, or that wearing and changing gloves is more effective than washing hands is astounding.


We can't save them all.


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 14, 2020)

I've come to believe that government will do whatever it wants in the name of security and safety. If the media wants to put out articles that Trump believes he's a king, what will they say about the leaders below him? Better yet...judges. 

An ER doctor loses custody of daughter because of coronavirus fears


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've come to believe that government will do whatever it wants in the name of security and safety. If the media wants to put out articles that Trump believes he's a king, what will they say about the leaders below him? Better yet...judges.
> 
> An ER doctor loses custody of daughter because of coronavirus fears


This is a clickbait headline.  She did not permanently lose custody, and as a divorced parent, I 100% support the dad in this case.  

What is interesting about people, is that there is zero doubt in my mind that if my wife were in the same position as the doctor, she would insist that the boys stay with me until everything had been resolved.

we might not have been great partners, but we are good at raising kids together and made/make every decision on what is best for the kids.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've come to believe that government will do whatever it wants in the name of security and safety. If the media wants to put out articles that Trump believes he's a king, what will they say about the leaders below him? Better yet...judges.
> 
> An ER doctor loses custody of daughter because of coronavirus fears


The guy became a judge in 1991 and was re-elected in 2014... I don't see how anyone could misconstrue him as a "Trump judge". The guy is just trying to keep a little gal safe cause of the pandemic. It's a temporary order, it ain't forever.

It's disingenuous to use yellow journalism to try and make it seem like something is happening when it isn't.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I've come to believe that government will do whatever it wants in the name of security and safety. If the media wants to put out articles that Trump believes he's a king, what will they say about the leaders below him? Better yet...judges.
> 
> An ER doctor loses custody of daughter because of coronavirus fears



Divorce courts didn’t suddenly become absurd, they’ve been that way a long long time.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The guy became a judge in 1991 and was re-elected in 2014... I don't see how anyone could misconstrue him as a "Trump judge". The guy is just trying to keep a little gal safe cause of the pandemic. It's a temporary order, it ain't forever.
> 
> It's disingenuous to use yellow journalism to try and make it seem like something is happening when it isn't.


While you and I do not agree on much, one thing I genuinely appreciate about you is that you take the time to read and understand the articles you are commenting on.  

- disclaimer -
_This post is not a dig or attack on any other member’s posting or commenting habits.  It is simply an observation about this specific member, with whom I’ve gone “round and round with”, but wanted to extend a well deserved compliment. _


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> While you and I do not agree on much, one thing I genuinely appreciate about you is that you take the time to read and understand the articles you are commenting on.
> 
> - disclaimer -
> _This post is not a dig or attack on any other member’s posting or commenting habits.  It is simply an observation about this specific member, with whom I’ve gone “round and round with”, but wanted to extend a well deserved compliment. _


Thanks. While we do have our differences, I laughed at the posts almost being the same.

Add on: Honestly and I'm not sure if it helps, but I've been treating everything I read as a potential PSYOP piece. There is too much disinformation going on and I'm almost certain all this fear and misinformation is soft power being used to influence Americans negatively. I think we are being played.


----------



## AWP (Apr 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I think we are being played.



This is a safe bet and the beauty of it is that both parties are doing this, Federal and State governments are doing this, the media is in on this, NGO's are feeding the flames...The very institutions that have some form of moral, legal, and ethical obligations to work for the citizens are doing the exact opposite. Few are allowing this crisis to go to waste and it shows.

This is playing out like Michael Crichton and Stephen King co-authored a book.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 14, 2020)

Another hockey company stepping up. 


CCM Hockey is now making game-changing hoods for healthcare workers in Canada


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This is a clickbait headline.  She did not permanently lose custody, and as a divorced parent, I 100% support the dad in this case.
> 
> What is interesting about people, is that there is zero doubt in my mind that if my wife were in the same position as the doctor, she would insist that the boys stay with me until everything had been resolved.
> 
> we might not have been great partners, but we are good at raising kids together and made/make every decision on what is best for the kids.





R.Caerbannog said:


> The guy became a judge in 1991 and was re-elected in 2014... I don't see how anyone could misconstrue him as a "Trump judge". The guy is just trying to keep a little gal safe cause of the pandemic. It's a temporary order, it ain't forever.
> 
> It's disingenuous to use yellow journalism to try and make it seem like something is happening when it isn't.



I read the article and I watched the video. Why is the court getting involved with something that should be handled by the parents? If that kid's life is in danger, then they all are. Temporary or not, it sets a precedent, for this and future things. Next thing you know grandma and grandpa start pressing to take temporary custody because mom or dad of a happy family is in healthcare.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 14, 2020)

AWP said:


> This is a safe bet and the beauty of it is that both parties are doing this, Federal and State governments are doing this, the media is in on this, NGO's are feeding the flames...The very institutions that have some form of moral, legal, and ethical obligations to work for the citizens are doing the exact opposite. Few are allowing this crisis to go to waste and it shows.
> 
> This is playing out like Michael Crichton and Stephen King co-authored a book.


Well if it counts for anything, I know who I'm siding with and it ain't the globalist commie sympathizers. Lot of Americans are done being the worlds piggy bank and portrayed as devils, while our own people see crumbling infrastructure and a loss in our standard of living.

Liberalism has served as a Trojan horse for our enemies to infiltrate the institutions meant to protect us. I mean... remember when it was 'racist' to say "China Virus"? Guess how many stooges in government cheered that idiocy on? These same people are everywhere and are helping our enemies, from the CCP, the House of Saud, the Paki's, and Iranian govt.

What this virus has done is shown the public where our officials loyalties lay and for the most part it ain't with the American people. People like Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstien, Occasional Cortex, little miss burkah, etc, and other big DNC people are being exposed for the frauds and tyrants they are. Don't get me wrong the RNC has it's share of buttheads, but they're nowhere near the level as some of these DNC dolts.


GOTWA said:


> I read the article and I watched the video. Why is the court getting involved with something that should be handled by the parents? If that kid's life is in danger, then they all are. Temporary or not, it sets a precedent, for this and future things. Next thing you know grandma and grandpa start pressing to take temporary custody because mom or dad of a happy family is in healthcare.


If she was a man that story wouldn't have gotten airtime... just saying. The family court system is biased as fuck anyways, there is so much screwed up legal precedence that it's not even funny. This is barley a drop in the bucket.


----------



## GOTWA (Apr 14, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> If she was a man that story wouldn't have gotten airtime... just saying. The family court system is biased as fuck anyways, there is so much screwed up legal precedence that it's not even funny. This is barley a drop in the bucket.



You're absolutely right. But a small water leak will fill a bucket given enough time...


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I read the article and I watched the video. Why is the court getting involved with something that should be handled by the parents? If that kid's life is in danger, then they all are. Temporary or not, it sets a precedent, for this and future things. Next thing you know grandma and grandpa start pressing to take temporary custody because mom or dad of a happy family is in healthcare.


Courts get involved when the parents can't agree.
It's obvious mom doesn't see a threat to the child, society disagrees. 
Military service prevented me from getting custody,  so I am not sympathetic for mom.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I read the article and I watched the video. Why is the court getting involved with something that should be handled by the parents? If that kid's life is in danger, then they all are. Temporary or not, it sets a precedent, for this and future things. Next thing you know grandma and grandpa start pressing to take temporary custody because mom or dad of a happy family is in healthcare.


Because she was obviously being unreasonable.  I'm pretty sure in a case like this her ex-husband tried to do this without the courts and said something along the lines of "Can our daughter stay with me until this thing dies down?"  Divorce and Family courts aren't making many rulings in favor of fathers, the laws have changed in some states that remove this legal bias but some judges are still definitely biased. 

In fact the state may even put the doctor on a registry for child endangerment. (My attorney GF takes people to court weekly for things like this)


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 14, 2020)

And then there's this.   Fuck the WHO, nothing but Chinese puppets and led the world into disaster.

The facts regarding Taiwan’s email to alert WHO to possible danger of COVID-19


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And then there's this.   Fuck the WHO, nothing but Chinese puppets and led the world into disaster.
> 
> The facts regarding Taiwan’s email to alert WHO to possible danger of COVID-19


The Director General of the WHO, like so many UN employees, shouldn't be in his position at all.  May as well make him director general of the Human Rights Council.  He was a part of a government in Ethiopia that was in bed with the Chinese government and committed numerous Human Rights abuses.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 14, 2020)

Add in this is the icing on the cake.

World health Organisation refuses to name staff who blocked early COVID-19 travel bans | Sky News Australia


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 14, 2020)

Let's not forget to say fuck Iran.  

"We Can't Even Count Anymore" – How Iran and the WHO Let Coronavirus Proliferate


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

It's illegal to peacefully assemble apparently in Raleigh.  https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html

POTUS suspends funding of the WHO: Trump announces WHO funding is suspended


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's illegal to peacefully assemble apparently in Raleigh.  https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article241999131.html
> 
> POTUS suspends funding of the WHO: Trump announces WHO funding is suspended



I'm about 30 miles from Raleigh, this is a big deal, and people are pissed....


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 14, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I'm about 30 miles from Raleigh, this is a big deal, and people are pissed....


Holy fuck this is a real tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250111779574894594


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Holy fuck this is a real tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250111779574894594




Christ how hard is it to get a PR person or at the very least think about controversial tweets before posting.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 14, 2020)

That's fucking stupid. We put limititations on protests all the time(VA gun rally, basically anything "alt right" associated, ANTIFA-inspired masks laws) and very few people ever bat an eye.

How easy (from a PR perspective) would it be just to have officers only asking people to maintain distance while protesting?

Expect more protests simply because of this.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 14, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> That's fucking stupid. We put limititations on protests all the time(VA gun rally, basically anything "alt right" associated, ANTIFA-inspired masks laws) and very few people ever bat an eye.
> 
> How easy (from a PR perspective) would it be just to have officers only asking people to maintain distance while protesting?
> 
> Expect more protests simply because of this.


Their PR team is continuing to be dumb right now.


----------



## AWP (Apr 14, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> That's fucking stupid. We put limititations on protests all the time(VA gun rally, basically anything "alt right" associated, ANTIFA-inspired masks laws) and very few people ever bat an eye.
> 
> How easy (from a PR perspective) would it be just to have officers only asking people to maintain distance while protesting?
> 
> Expect more protests simply because of this.



Perception is reality. With a rising fear this will be used for permanent restrictions and loss of liberties, the Average Joe will begin to overlook past events and focus on the recent. When people start making emotional decisions, all bets are off on the outcome.

If we as a country fail to learn from this (we won't IMO) then we deserve everything coming to us.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 15, 2020)

Well.. this is a little insane


> We projected that recurrent wintertime outbreaks of SARS-CoV-2 will probably occur after the initial, most severe pandemic wave. Absent other interventions, a key metric for the success of social distancing is whether critical care capacities are exceeded. To avoid this, prolonged or intermittent social distancing may be necessary into 2022.


Projecting the transmission dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 through the postpandemic period | Science


----------



## AWP (Apr 15, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well.. this is a little insane
> 
> Projecting the transmission dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 through the postpandemic period | Science



CNN just had at least one of the authors on. 2022 will break the planet, not just our country, every industrialized nation on the planet.

They lost me here and this alone makes me question the report:


> During the initial pandemic wave, many countries have adopted social distancing measures, and *some, like China, are gradually lifting them after achieving adequate control of transmission*.



China has adequately controlled the disease? GTFO of here.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 15, 2020)

WHO 2018-2019 funding from the US is at 893 million. Over a decade that's not a bad chunk of change.
WHO | Programme Budget Web Portal


Spoiler: Image from WHO


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 15, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well.. this is a little insane
> 
> Projecting the transmission dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 through the postpandemic period | Science


That's not going to happen.  This country will be open before mid-summer.  At that point the world will just have to say fuck it.  But when you look at the previously Coronavirus outbreaks, where are the massive spikes?  Yes, I get that SARS-COV-2 is more commmunicable.  But you can't stop loss the economy for a year.  It's just not gonna happen.  We get past six months and the streets will not be safe, heck they aren't safe now.

At this point the US has over 600k confirmed cases, we will top 1M cases.  This is now endemic.


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> China has adequately controlled the disease? GTFO of here.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 15, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Well.. this is a little insane
> 
> Projecting the transmission dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 through the postpandemic period | Science


Here's what's stupid about that article and why I consider similar statements from epidemiologists as fear mongering...

It was stated in the second sentence of your quote from the article, "Absent other interventions..."

Of course there will be other interventions! As an example, potential vaccines and other approaches to potentially slow or treat the onset and spread of the virus are already being fast tracked from a number of angles.

So, why does the media even bring this up or discuss it as though it's not being worked.  This is also why all these various "models" are so wildly inaccurate.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Holy fuck this is a real tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250111779574894594



Cops don't seem to be 6 feet apart......


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 15, 2020)

So, lots of folks are now reporting that the virus did in fact come from the Wuhan Lab.

Sources believe coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab as part of China's efforts to compete with US

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

China Lab In Focus Of Coronavirus Outbreak

ETA: Michiganders Standing Up-


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 15, 2020)

It's like an emotional rollercoaster

French study finds hydroxychloroquine doesn't help patients with coronavirus


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 15, 2020)

President Trump Touted this...no, president Trump touted an opinion on a drug combination that was provided to him by medical professionals.  Ugh.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 16, 2020)

Looks like the Chicoms are getting fidgety, with their guilty conscience and whatnot. 2020 year of the virus and commies trying to nuke the word. With any luck they'll have a nuclear misshap and blow themselves up, like Wile E. Coyote.

China may be secretly testing low-grade nukes: report


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 16, 2020)

White House Presser 4/15/20. Starts at 59:15.






Cliff notes:
-1st GM ventilator rolled off assembly line.
-Wuhan Virology center and the infected female researcher mentioned earlier in this thread mentioned.
-Food supply system bottlenecks being addressed, matter of distribution not supply.
-POTUS call out Democrats impeding progress in DC.
-WHO having it's funding cut.
-Tariffs from China being diverted to help our farmers.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 16, 2020)

So. I'm telling y'all.  We will need to re-open this bitch back up before 1 JUN.  At this rate, we will have 34-35 Million people unemployed by 1 MAY.

22 million Americans have filed for unemployment benefits in the last four weeks

The video on CNN Provides context.  22M is roughly the total number of jobs we've added to the economy since the 'great' recession.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 16, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> I have no pants on, that is all


Talking to you, @Polar Bear !

Police tells residents to wear pants while checking their mailbox


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Talking to you, @Polar Bear !
> 
> Police tells residents to wear pants while checking their mailbox


Damn the Man


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 16, 2020)

There's a sucker born every day...  lol


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 16, 2020)

Turn that volume up!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=219248009350054


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> There's a sucker born every day...  lol


I miss it sometimes...especially seeing those Canadian LAV's at NTC, and the cute green CADPAT they wore in the middle of a desert!


----------



## CQB (Apr 16, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Apr 17, 2020)

Elon Musk gets a little (righly so) savage with CNN.

Elon Musk, CNN spar over ventilator story; Musk surprised network ‘still exists’



> “Three weeks after Tesla CEO Elon Musk said he had obtained more than 1,000 ventilators to help California hospitals treating patients infected with the coronavirus, the governor’s office says none of the promised ventilators have been received by hospitals,” CNN’s verified account tweeted.
> 
> *Musk shot back, responding, “What I find most surprising is that CNN still exists.”*
> 
> Back in March, California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Musk had already made good on his promise.



And then CNN, because it is such a reputable organization, decided to double-down on the stupid:



> “Weird to attack CNN for what the CA governor’s office said - especially when your own spokespeople at Tesla didn’t respond to requests for comment,” Dornic wrote. “Seems like your outrage should, uh, be directed at the entity that made the claim, not the one that reported it. U new to this?”


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 17, 2020)

Worth a read:
I've been self-isolating in Sweden for 5 weeks—here's what it's like

Population demographics are quite different, etc. but it's still interesting to read their approach.  

A quick check as of today, shows Sweden has 13,216 total cases (for whatever that's worth - a pretty useless metric IMO) and 1,400 total deaths.  They added 676 new cases today along with 67 deaths.  Sweden has a population of ~10M.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 17, 2020)

CQB said:


> View attachment 33301View attachment 33302


How is this determined?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 17, 2020)

CQB said:


> View attachment 33302




Anyone putting China in the top 10 needs their graphics flushed!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

*- Update - *

Look who's back....maybe.

Reinstate? Reassign? Navy to decide fate of fired captain

WASHINGTON — The Navy’s top admiral will soon decide the fate of the ship captain who was fired after pleading for commanders to move faster to safeguard his coronavirus-infected crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

In the glare of a public spotlight, Adm. Mike Gilday will decide whether Navy Capt. Brett Crozier stepped out of line when he went around his chain of command and sent an email pushing for action to stem the outbreak. As of Friday, 660 sailors on the aircraft carrier, now docked at Guam, had tested positive for the virus and seven were hospitalized. One sailor has died, and more than 4,000 of the ship's 5,000 crew members have been moved onto the island for quarantine.

Gilday's review won't be limited to Crozier. It will also look at the command climate on the ship and higher up within the Pacific-based fleet, to determine if there are broader leadership problems in a region critical to America's national security interests.


----------



## AWP (Apr 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Gilday's review won't be limited to Crozier. It will also look at the command climate on the ship and higher up within the Pacific-based fleet, to determine* if there are broader leadership problems *in a region critical to America's national security interests.



I think the Fat Leonard case and number of crashed ships answers that question...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2020)

Last investigation into the Pac Fleet didn't yield any good results: bad command climates, whole squadrons not meeting training requirements because they were forced to deploy earlier, all sorts of bad whoonya.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 18, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> In the glare of a public spotlight, Adm. Mike Gilday will decide whether Navy Capt. Brett Crozier stepped out of line when *he went around his chain of command* and sent an email pushing for action to stem the outbreak. As of Friday, 660 sailors on the aircraft carrier, now docked at Guam, had tested positive for the virus and seven were hospitalized. One sailor has died, and more than 4,000 of the ship's 5,000 crew members have been moved onto the island for quarantine.


Whether he was right or wrong about the danger the coronavirus presented to the ship, he was wrong to go around his chain of command.  Every leader in the military has an "open door policy".  He could have kept going up the chain.

Had any of his subordinates gone behind his back and sent an email out when they thought HE was wrong, I guarantee you he would have hammered them.  And rightfully so; once the mentality exists that the chain is flexible, it never goes away.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 18, 2020)

Has nobody on this board dealt with a broken chain before? 

I've dealt with a situation where the "open door policy" was really just a way for the CO to catch people asking about legitimate things before it got to the BC.

Or one where a brand new private had it so drilled into her head to always follow the chain that she wouldn't go to her 1SG about the SSG sexually harassing her over text, because her SFC told her she couldn't jump him in the chain.

Sometimes the chain needs to be broken; that's for the investigation to decide if this was the case.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Whole post



Exactly this. As I stated in an earlier post, the skipper didn’t write that email out of blind desperation. He isn’t dumb, and he knew the risks of open door, aka jumping the chain of command. Because let’s face it, every briefing one gets about “open door policy” is heavily laden with the implication that it’s jumping the chain, and will bring nothing but trouble. I also believe it was someone looking to end Crozer’s career that leaked it to the press, knowing full well that Crozer jumping the chain would be seen as the bigger sin than another officer leaking the memo. 

Your post about broken chains of command reminds me of my time in between deployments 3 and 4. A guy was getting fucked over on his special duty pay from the bottom up, and took it to his Congressman. When word got out after PT on Monday that someone had filed a congressional, my chain of command called me in and asked why I thought their shoddy and abusive attitude towards me did merit calling my Congressman, did I not understand the chain of command as an NCO, yadda yadda yadda...

They shit themselves when I laughed in their faces and said that I wasn’t the one who filed.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Has nobody on this board dealt with a broken chain before?
> 
> I've dealt with a situation where the "open door policy" was really just a way for the CO to catch people asking about legitimate things before it got to the BC.
> 
> ...


You're really going to compare a "brand new private" to an Navy Captain aviator ship commander?  Seriously?  Please admit now that you're making a strawman argument.

Yes, I've also dealt with broken leaders, fake "open door policies", and subpar chains of command.  And I knew how to deal with them and continue operations, because I was a Marine SNCO and had been taught how to do so.  This guy was a highly paid and trained naval officer.  The nation spent a lot of money teach him to lead and fight.  When the time came to do the right thing, he failed.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 18, 2020)

I'm saying that shitty leadership doesn't only rot at the bottom, and that many people treat the chain as @racing_kitty described; a way to get at those who might have a legitimate grip with leadership.

We've got threads on here devoted to how rotten some of the leadership higher up in the Navy has become; I'm waiting for the investigation to finish, because for an 06 to jump the chain like that is either a giant lapse in judgement, or a feeling that the chain is rotten.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Has nobody on this board dealt with a broken chain before?
> 
> I've dealt with a situation where the "open door policy" was really just a way for the CO to catch people asking about legitimate things before it got to the BC.
> 
> ...



How many rungs you gonna skip? The FMR acting SECNAV had direct contact with CPT Crozier. 

Infected personnel were being evacuated and additional help was underway.  Not sure how much more needed to be done in this situation.

However there were still several options available to him: Congressional Inquiry with either his Representative or Senator.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 18, 2020)

@Dvr55119 -

Why the "thumbs-down" in post #1781?

On this board we ask members to offer some type of feedback if they are going to drop the "dislike" or "hate" hammer.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2020)

Here are some things to think about that should be extremely concerning.  First, China lobbying our Congress Critters and Localities for praise and to attack the POTUS.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251558302481371136
Second, DJI donating drones to PDs to enforce social distancing...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251158887996116996


----------



## Muppet (Apr 18, 2020)

Oh, it's on fire tonight...


----------



## pardus (Apr 19, 2020)

So my hospital started IgG/IgM (looking for antibodies from a previous exposure) testing of staff members on Thursday, myself included. I got my results back approx 24 hrs later, which unfortunately was negative for antibodies. Not only am I disappointed but I'm surprised too. Ive been in a Covid swabbing tent since this shitshow started, was initially very lax about PPE usage and have been in intimate contact with many Covid positive PTs and don't normally wear an N95 (surgical masks instead) because they're a pain in the ass and my face shield is normally propped up so I can see ahead without it. 
We had one nurse who was positive (with the newborn child who I posted about earlier), made a full recovery was back at work, treating patients for at least a week then came to work with a high temp 103+, was tested for Covid, Influenza, basic bloods were drawn. All negative. Came back the next day with a temp of 105.1
Was retested for Covid and was positive. He was in hospital for a couple of days with a consistently high fever (103+) before getting to the point that he was released. Our Infectious Disease people think the virus was dormant. 
Covid is not playing by the rules.

I want to end with a little tidbit of information.
The CDC has posted preliminary numbers for the USA 2019-2020 influenza (flu) season. 39 - 56 million  illnesses, and 24 - 62K deaths.
Covid, 723K infections and almost 34K deaths.

Sleep well motherfuckers!


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 19, 2020)

pardus said:


> I want to end with a little tidbit of information.
> The CDC has posted preliminary numbers for the USA 2019-2020 influenza (flu) season. 39 - 56 million illnesses, and *24 - 62K deaths*.



Question for the smarter folks, but why the range? Why wouldn't we have a more accurate number than a 40k spread?


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 19, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the smarter folks, but why the range? Why wouldn't we have a more accurate number than a 40k spread?



The CDC has an explanation for ya!

Frequently Asked Questions about Estimated Flu Burden | CDC



> CDC does not know exactly how many people die from seasonal flu each year. There are several reasons for this. First, states are not required to report individual flu illnesses or deaths among people older than 18 years of age to CDC. Second, influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates of people who die from flu-related complications. Third, many flu-related deaths occur one or two weeks after a person’s initial infection, either because the person may develop a secondary bacterial co-infection (such as bacterial pneumonia) or because influenza can aggravate an existing chronic illness (such as congestive heart failure or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). Also, most people who die from flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples. Sensitive influenza tests are only likely to detect influenza if performed within a week after onset of illness. In addition, some commonly used tests to diagnose influenza in clinical settings are not highly sensitive and can provide false negative results (i.e. they misdiagnose flu illness as not being flu.) For these reasons, many flu-related deaths may not be recorded on death certificates. These are some of the reasons that CDC and other public health agencies in the United States and other countries use statistical and mathematical models to estimate the annual number of flu-related deaths.



TLDR- There isn't anyway to be completely accurate, so they use statistical modeling to estimate a range low to high


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 19, 2020)

Never thought I'd be tired of statical analysis and models until now.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Here are some things to think about that should be extremely concerning.  First, China lobbying our Congress Critters and Localities for praise and to attack the POTUS.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251558302481371136
> ...


I truly loathe the Chicoms and their allies. Also starting to wonder if states, whose local govt is inundated with Chicom assets, are fudging figures. The CCP needs to burn over this.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 19, 2020)

Please narc on your neighbors DeBlasio asks:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251496378372632577
Funny, and they tried to paint Trump as "Literally Hitler".


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Please narc on your neighbors DeBlasio asks:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251496378372632577
> Funny, and they tried to paint Trump as "Literally Hitler".


Lots of folks have been submitting pix of Hizzoner going to the gym or to that one park that’s 12 miles from Gracie, both in reply to this tweet and to the text line. Talk about a lack of self awareness


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 19, 2020)

Been tracking the USG COVID-19 response with the COP from FEMA and HHS, if you have access. It's FOUO so can't post any of the info. Pretty good COP for FEMA regions to each county.

Story Map Series


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 19, 2020)

Troops are on the ground changing bed pans.  

Canadian Forces arrive at Montreal seniors’ residences, health authorities rushing to train volunteers


----------



## Dvr55119 (Apr 19, 2020)

One of my former 18D/anesthesiologist buddies posted this and it is perfect.

Mod edit -
Photo formatted for size and cropped.
Ooh Rah


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 19, 2020)

Horrendous punctuation, but I'm also unclear what this really achieves?

Asking as a member, not a mod, at this point.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 19, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> One of my former 18D/anesthesiologist buddies posted this and it is perfect.


Perfect for what?


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Perfect for what?



It's a somewhat increasing sentiment thrown around on facebook/twitter about all of these protests against the stay at home orders.

You should be free to go out and live a normal life if you think COVID is a hoax/you "aren't the demographic that gets it"/you feel your freedoms are being violated; you just shouldn't get to benefit from the healthcare system if you're actively flaunting the system.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 20, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's a somewhat increasing sentiment thrown around on facebook/twitter about all of these protests against the stay at home orders.
> 
> You should be free to go out and live a normal life if you think COVID is a hoax/you "aren't the demographic that gets it"/you feel your freedoms are being violated; you just shouldn't get to benefit from the healthcare system if you're actively flaunting the system.


Well, treatment in >75% cases is to simply go home and self isolate.


----------



## Dame (Apr 20, 2020)

This is inexcusable. These assholes are as bad as China and their zero new cases bullshit.
A Teenager Posted About Her COVID-19 Infection on Instagram. A Deputy Threatened To Arrest Her If She Didn't Delete It.


----------



## AWP (Apr 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> This is inexcusable. These assholes are as bad as China and their zero new cases bullshit.
> A Teenager Posted About Her COVID-19 Infection on Instagram. A Deputy Threatened To Arrest Her If She Didn't Delete It.



I really want to believe there is more to this story, but "me being me" has a hard time thinking that's possible.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> I really want to believe there is more to this story, but "me being me" has a hard time thinking that's possible.


Wall Street Journal picked it up.  It's not a long story; so I'll just paste it into this "Spoiler" instead of creating a PDF for those who do not subscribe.

Opinion | The Coronavirus Cops



Spoiler: WSJ Story



In a public-health crisis, governments may do things that aren’t justified in ordinary times. But as a police visit to a teen’s home in Oxford, Wis., shows, some actions are overkill.

After a spring break trip to Florida with her high school band, 16-year-old Amyiah Cohoon developed a severe respiratory illness with symptoms similar to Covid-19. On her second visit to the hospital, she was tested. Though she tested negative, her family says they were told she had likely had the virus but had missed the window for testing positive. After returning home, she posted a photo of herself in her hospital bed saying that though she was still on breathing treatment she had “beaten the virus.”

The school’s district administrator sent a message to all school families denying the “rumor” that a student had contracted Covid-19 on a school trip, calling it a “foolish means to get attention.” Meantime, the family says, the school never called to discuss what doctors had told them about their daughter though Mrs. Cohoon had earlier spoken to both the principal and the band teacher about her illness.

Then the cops showed up at the Cohoons’ home. According to a suit filed on their behalf by the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, the officer said he had orders from the sheriff to demand that she delete the Instagram post or he’d cite her or her parents for disorderly conduct and “start taking people to jail.” Amyiah says she complied.

A lawyer for the sheriff’s department says the police answered in “good faith” to avoid “unfounded panic.” But as Attorney General William Barr recently noted, there is no “pandemic exception” to the Constitution. The sheriff, the school system and the teen would all be better off if the sheriff’s office apologized for the heavy-handed treatment—and admit that Amyiah Cohoon’s Instagram posts were free speech protected by the First Amendment.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 20, 2020)

There is no information that could be provided -- in addition to what has already been posted -- that could make the Sheriff's actions legal. He is a tool who has a "Pharaoh" complex and wants to make law. He needs to lose his postion next election unless his constituents like a dictator for sheriff.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 20, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's a somewhat increasing sentiment thrown around on facebook/twitter about all of these protests against the stay at home orders.
> 
> You should be free to go out and live a normal life if you think COVID is a hoax/you "aren't the demographic that gets it"/you feel your freedoms are being violated; you just shouldn't get to benefit from the healthcare system if you're actively flaunting the system.


But let's keep Narcaning junkies or flooding emergency rooms with non-emergency patients.
Let's deny seeds, but allow abortions.
Mom and pop stores need to close, but big box stores get to stay open.
Look at Iceland and Sweden to see how heard mentality worked.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm not sure Corona Stuntin is same as Shouting Fire in a crowded room.  But I'm gonna guess that is their justification for the house call.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 20, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> But let's keep Narcaning junkies or flooding emergency rooms with non-emergency patients.
> Let's deny seeds, but allow abortions.
> Mom and pop stores need to close, but big box stores get to stay open.
> Look at Iceland and Sweden to see how heard mentality worked.



To clarify; that's not a sentiment I share personally, I was just sharing it in response to a question.

As for Sweden, it might be to early to use it as an example.

In Iceland, Aggressive, widespread testing replaced social distancing.

If there is anything we can start to extrapolate from the worldwide response to this, it is that social distancing does help (overall), but the strictness of it should be more due to the population density of an area and the infection rate.

NYC/metro may need to keep it's current level of social lockdown, but Watertown probably doesn't.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 20, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> To clarify; that's not a sentiment I share personally, I was just sharing it in response to a question.
> 
> As for Sweden, it might be to early to use it as an example.
> 
> ...



I'm still struggling to see how it's funny. Or should be taken as such given that we have governors telling their citizens that their rights are not "essential".


----------



## Gordus (Apr 20, 2020)

.


Ooh-Rah said:


> > "...The sheriff, the school system and the teen would all be better off if the sheriff’s office apologized for the heavy-handed treatment—and admit that Amyiah Cohoon’s Instagram posts were free speech protected by the First Amendment."



That is the very least they should do for such mishandling.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 20, 2020)

*Nurses on the Frontline of COVID-19: Read This Before You Call Us Heroes*

link

"I’m beginning to relate to war veterans who squirm uncomfortably when thanked for their service. Not only because I’m married to one, but because I’m getting a glimpse of what it’s like to be called a hero just for showing up to work."


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm still struggling to see how it's funny. Or should be taken as such given that we have governors telling their citizens that their rights are not "essential".



Funny in a haha sense?

No.

Funny in a (broad strokes here) "the people currently protesting are the type of people who supported police crackdowns of Standing Rock/anything BLM for not following the rules" and "the people who think the protesters should be arrested now are the type of people who abhor police using dispersion tactics on crowds"?

It gets a chuckle from me for how many excuses people make to justify doing something if its "for the right cause", when that cause is always something they support.

ETA: I still dont support the people calling for the protesters to be arrested. They have every right to be out there


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 20, 2020)

Recidivism...you don't say!

Inmates committing crimes after coronavirus release ‘unconscionable’: de Blasio


----------



## Dame (Apr 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Recidivism...you don't say!
> 
> Inmates committing crimes after coronavirus release ‘unconscionable’: de Blasio


I swear I thought this was going to be an Onion story.


----------



## CQB (Apr 20, 2020)

Interesting read.

Beijing still has a way to go in battle for power — United States Studies Centre


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 20, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251571068885585920


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 21, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251571068885585920


Not trying to sound like a dick, but you gotta realize the majority of Americans (including the middle class) live foot to mouth. Lower and middle America were hit hard when manufacturing left for Chicom shores and the 'service sector' that replaced those jobs are now considered non-essential.

Debt driven economies are real... and it ain't just us. To quote POTUS, "The cure can't be worse than the disease.".


----------



## CQB (Apr 21, 2020)

...I think you mean hand to mouth bro. ✌️


----------



## AWP (Apr 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> the majority of Americans (including the middle class) live foot to mouth.



"Hand to mouth," maybe? There's your foot in your mouth or hand, foot, and mouth disease, but foot to mouth?


----------



## CQB (Apr 21, 2020)

A judan mawashi geri, that really is foot in mouth.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> "Hand to mouth," maybe? There's your foot in your mouth or hand, foot, and mouth disease, but foot to mouth?





CQB said:


> ...I think you mean hand to mouth bro. ✌


Whoops... awww well, you got me. I'll be honest, American/English idioms and colloquialisms aren't my forte. Figured the (non-existent) idiomatic 'foot to mouth' root had something to do with babies chewing on their feet. Now I'm curious as to where the hand thing fits in... off to google I go!


----------



## Dame (Apr 21, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Whoops... awww well, you got me. I'll be honest, American/English idioms and colloquialisms aren't my forte. Figured the (non-existent) idiomatic 'foot to mouth' root had something to do with babies chewing on their feet. Now I'm curious as to where the hand thing fits in... off to google I go!


Living hand to mouth refers to having zero resources. The moment you are paid or given any usable goods (hand), it goes straight toward food to stay alive (mouth).

ETA: Why the hell does that baby have a gold hoop in its ear? Pirate parents?


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 21, 2020)

Did someone say hand, foot, and mouth disease?  There was an outbreak at a course I staffed several years ago.  I never got it but that shit's nasty; highly contagious.  No, thanks.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2020)

In regards to the Anne Frank Tweet/Meme.  Sharing it.  Same with that idiotic permission slip. Have some empathy. It's not even funny.

ETA: Coronavirus infections could be much more widespread than believed, California study suggests

Two papers on preliminary results from studies have been published. Neither studies have been completed, but they are churning out data. The Stanford Study on Santa Clara County and the USC Study on LA County. The article goes into why the Santa Clara study may have skewed data to one demographic. Yet both studies preliminary data are showing that this is significantly more contageous and that people are out there with anti-bodies walking around. This drives down the actual death rate of the virus significantly.

Then let's go back to why we're seeing all of the cases in certain urban areas.

NYC, and the Tri-State Area.  Philadelphia.  Boston?  Cities that rely heavily on their subway systems and people live stacked upon each other.  There are papers out there discussing how it is very difficult to contract the virus if you're outside.  A lot of the community spread is definitely happening in the packed public transit areas in New York.

ETA2: Demographics Data on those dying from COVID-19 in Massachusetts Who is dying from the coronavirus in Massachusetts? State officials release new data.

ETA3:  U.N. warns economic downturn could kill hundreds of thousands of children in 2020

More children will die because of the poverty caused by this virus.  The poverty caused was voluntary btw, we didn't have to respond this way.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 21, 2020)

*Everything I Needed to Know About COVID19, I Learned in Kindergarten*



“_Wisdom from the mouth of babes_.”  In trying to absorb all of the (mis)information being thrown my way about the Chinese coronavirus/novel coronavirus/COVID19/whatever we’re calling it these days, I’m reminded of Robert Fulghum’s seminal work, “All I Really Needed to Know, I Learned in Kindergarten.” In the spirit of that storied tome, here are a few things that any kindergartner could tell you, that might still apply to us today:


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 21, 2020)

Dame said:


> Living hand to mouth refers to having zero resources. The moment you are paid or given any usable goods (hand), it goes straight toward food to stay alive (mouth).
> 
> ETA: Why the hell does that baby have a gold hoop in its ear? Pirate parents?


Thanks Dame! Found a dictionary definition but it didn't really give much explanation.

As for the earing.... maybe hipsters, gypsies, or old school traditionalists?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2020)

Interesting who the reporter is...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252608489089896449


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 21, 2020)

An interesting new mask design, repurposing full face snorkel masks. 







New mask to protect against COVID-19 unveiled on Manitoulin Island


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interesting who the reporter is...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252608489089896449


A vaccine doesn’t exist yet.  He either meant to say “tested”, or he was joking.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> You're really going to compare a "brand new private" to an Navy Captain aviator ship commander?  Seriously?  Please admit now that you're making a strawman argument.
> 
> Yes, I've also dealt with broken leaders, fake "open door policies", and subpar chains of command.  And I knew how to deal with them and continue operations, because I was a Marine SNCO and had been taught how to do so.  This guy was a highly paid and trained naval officer.  The nation spent a lot of money teach him to lead and fight.  *When the time came to do the right thing, he failed.*



Disliked because I do not think he failed at doing the right thing.  I think he got to the end of his rope and felt he had no choice.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> A vaccine doesn’t exist yet.  He either meant to say “tested”, or he was joking.


I don't know about that part.  The part about him saying the death rate was .01% based on the SC preliminary findings is what I'm specific about.  The guy doesn't work for Fox.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Disliked because I do not think he failed at doing the right thing.  I think he got to the end of his rope and felt he had no choice.


I think you're making assumptions.  Who had he discussed this with?  Group commander?  Fleet commander?  CNO?  SecNav?  SecDef?  Did he reach out to a congressman?  What actions had he taken to mitigate the possible damage coronavirus could do to his crew?  I don't know any of these; do you?


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> I think you're making assumptions.  Who had he discussed this with?  Group commander?  Fleet commander?  CNO?  SecNav?  SecDef?  Did he reach out to a congressman?  What actions had he taken to mitigate the possible damage coronavirus could do to his crew?  I don't know any of these; do you?



I don't think I'm making any more assumptions than you are, correct? How do you know he did not do these things?

You don't get to be commander of a carrier without understanding how to play the game and without having had some command experience. Maybe he got to the point where he knew he is risking his career and trying to do the right thing. 

So I guess what I feel about it and what you feel about it cancel each other out until there are more facts in evidence.


----------



## Dame (Apr 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> An interesting new mask design, repurposing full face snorkel masks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not just no, hell no. I'd look like a fucking Teletubby.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 21, 2020)

Dame said:


> Not just no, hell no. I'd look like a fucking Teletubby.



I'm sure you can pick which color you want.  lol


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> I think you're making assumptions.  Who had he discussed this with?  Group commander?  Fleet commander?  CNO?  SecNav?  SecDef?  Did he reach out to a congressman?  What actions had he taken to mitigate the possible damage coronavirus could do to his crew?  I don't know any of these; do you?


He was not a private, I would say he went through the right channels and got zero answers. He up the anti. Doom on the morons that brushed him off.


----------



## Steve1839 (Apr 21, 2020)

Dame said:


> Not just no, hell no. I'd look like a fucking Teletubby.


I had to look up "Teletubby"...SMH


----------



## 0699 (Apr 21, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> He was not a private, I would say he went through the right channels and got zero answers. He up the anti. Doom on the morons that brushed him off.


I think Devildoc hit it on the head; we're going to have to agree to disagree.  He got paid to solve problems and defend the American people.  Not to publicly bitch about what he perceived to be the wrong course of action.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> I think Devildoc hit it on the head; we're going to have to agree to disagree.  He got paid to solve problems and defend the American people.  Not to publicly bitch about what he perceived to be the wrong course of action.


I could be wrong, but I’m gathering that you believe that Crozer was the one who leaked to the press. That is exactly where you and I would stand in disagreement. I firmly believe that someone in the email chain leaked it out, but that someone wasn’t Crozer


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2020)

We Are Living in a Failed State

Sure Atlantic, do you even know what a Failed State is?  Really?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> We Are Living in a Failed State
> 
> Sure Atlantic, do you even know what a Failed State is?  Really?


Yep... homie suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome, he's also a DNC yellow journalist shill. Check out his other articles... they're a doozy. 


Spoiler: Full blown yeah...


----------



## pardus (Apr 21, 2020)

0699 said:


> I think Devildoc hit it on the head; we're going to have to agree to disagree.  He got paid to solve problems and defend the American people.  Not to publicly bitch about what he perceived to be the wrong course of action.



Yup. Whether he got brushed off or not, he knew he was doing the wrong thing by going public, or allowing it to go public. I would be very surprised indeed if he didn't realize that, and the consequences of doing so, and went ahead regardless. Which would lead one to wonder if he was being a "martyr" or had another agenda going forward. I do question why he allowed his Sailors to congregate to cheer him off during this period of urgent social distancing though...


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 21, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I could be wrong, but I’m gathering that you believe that Crozer was the one who leaked to the press. That is exactly where you and I would stand in disagreement. I firmly believe that someone in the email chain leaked it out, but that someone wasn’t Crozer


Saw something the other day that said he and the Battle Group Commander did not get along, which may be why he blind sided the BG/Cdr.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 21, 2020)

pardus said:


> Yup. Whether he got brushed off or not, he knew he was doing the wrong thing by going public, or allowing it to go public. I would be very surprised indeed if he didn't realize that, and the consequences of doing so, and went ahead regardless. Which would lead one to wonder if he was being a "martyr" or had another agenda going forward. I do question why he allowed his Sailors to congregate to cheer him off during this period of urgent social distancing though...


He was relieved of command, he had no say. I hope he gave his story to the press not leaked. Your troops come first. I was only a squad leader, I would have gone to the mat for everyone one of my guys.


----------



## 0699 (Apr 21, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> I could be wrong, but I’m gathering that you believe that Crozer was the one who leaked to the press. That is exactly where you and I would stand in disagreement. I firmly believe that someone in the email chain leaked it out, but that someone wasn’t Crozer.


Then I'm not saying it well.  I do not think he sent an email directly to the press.  I have not seen the "to" distribution list from his email.  I do think he sent this email out to enough people that he knew someone would leak it.  If he thought he could send this email and NOT have it leaked, in this day and age where literally EVERYTHING gets leaked, then I question whether he had the intelligence needed to be an aircraft carrier commander.


pardus said:


> Yup. Whether he got brushed off or not, he knew he was doing the wrong thing by going public, or allowing it to go public. I would be very surprised indeed if he didn't realize that, and the consequences of doing so, and went ahead regardless. Which would lead one to wonder if he was being a "martyr" or had another agenda going forward. I do question why he allowed his Sailors to congregate to cheer him off during this period of urgent social distancing though...


I think he did this knowing it would be released.  I think he perceived that he would be the "hero" of this incident, saving his sailors from those nasty senior officers.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2020)

So...this is pretty trash.  Harvard got 40BB in the bank, went in for that PPP aid!

Harvard to get nearly $9 million in coronavirus aid despite $40 billion endowment


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...this is pretty trash.  Harvard got 40BB in the bank, went in for that PPP aid!
> 
> Harvard to get nearly $9 million in coronavirus aid despite $40 billion endowment



Blame the way the bill was written.

I saw a story the other day about Ruth's Chris and Shake Shack (among others) taking millions for the "small business loan" because the bill allowed for them to apply if they had less than 500 employees at a location, not less than 500 employees overall.


----------



## AWP (Apr 22, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Blame the way the bill was written.
> 
> I saw a story the other day about Ruth's Chris and Shake Shack (among others) taking millions for the "small business loan" because the bill allowed for them to apply if they had less than 500 employees at a location, not less than 500 employees overall.



I'm 100% pro-capitalism, but this crap turns people off of capitalism and fuels the trash-ass notion of socialism as our solution.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 22, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Blame the way the bill was written.
> 
> I saw a story the other day about Ruth's Chris and Shake Shack (among others) taking millions for the "small business loan" because the bill allowed for them to apply if they had less than 500 employees at a location, not less than 500 employees overall.



Yes and no. If it’s a franchise location, then yes, they can get the small business loan. If it’s a corporate owned store, then no, they can’t.

The restaurant I work at is a franchise location, with a few sister restaurants, mainly in MS. The franchise owners were coming out of their pockets to keep us open in the limited capacity we are allowed. After paying building rents, franchise fees, and such, keeping us on so that the servers and cooks could at least have some cash flow meant that they were hemorrhaging cash.

With this loan, the servers are getting paid the average of their gross income (claimed tips plus that $2.13) across 8 prior paychecks. Since those paychecks came from football season, Mardi Gras, and bowl games, they’re getting more than what unemployment in AL would pay out (so long as they claimed their tips right). And they only have to work two shifts a week to get it. That first paycheck under the program hits this Friday 

The corporate-owned location in Pensacola isn’t getting the loan, and their crew is not getting the pay that my crew is, so far as I know. I don’t know what they ARE getting, but I know it’s not the deal that our franchise owners are giving us.

Edited to correct a touch screen typo


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 22, 2020)

Also, they were able to offer an interest-free loan to any employee in the franchise that needed it, as well as non-chargeable PTO if you were forced to stay at home pending results of a COVID-19 test or a positive test result.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 22, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Yes and no. If it’s a franchise location, then yes, they can get the small business loan. If it’s a corporate owned store, then no, they can’t.
> 
> The restaurant I work at is a franchise location, with a few sister restaurants, mainly in MS. The franchise owners were coming out of their pockets to keep us open in the limited capacity we are allowed. After paying building rents, franchise fees, and such, keeping us on so that the servers and cooks could at least have some cash flow meant that they were hemorrhaging cash.
> 
> ...



I mentioned Shack Shake specifically, because they don't franchise at all.

The article I found shared the full open letter from their CEO; this section stood out



> _While the program was touted as relief for small businesses, we also learned it stipulated that any restaurant business - including restaurant chains - with no more than 500 employees per location would be eligible. We cheered that news, as it signaled that Congress had gotten the message that as both as an employer, and for the indispensable role we play in communities, restaurants needed to survive. There was no fine print, anywhere, that suggested: "Apply now, or we will run out of money by the time you finally get in line."_



It may be that some other corporations understood the negative optics better than Shake Shack.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 22, 2020)

I get that. I just wanted to offer up the clarification, so as to help paint a better picture.  

 I don’t know a damned thing about Shake Shack, but I’m glad their conscience got the better of them.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 22, 2020)

Seems this is just another example of government's appreciation for good intelligence and it's ignorance resulting in preventative death.  


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-pandemic-early-warning-1.5537925


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Blame the way the bill was written.
> 
> I saw a story the other day about Ruth's Chris and Shake Shack (among others) taking millions for the "small business loan" because the bill allowed for them to apply if they had less than 500 employees at a location, not less than 500 employees overall.


I'm going to vehemently disagree with this.  You can choose to be quite transitive with your morals and decide to seek aid under the bill.  Although I look cross-eyed at Shake Shack and Ruth's Chris for doing so, on the business side I completely understand where they're coming from.

Harvard? Fuck Em.  They have a 40B endowment that allows them to weather any storm.


ETA: China ain't been letting this crisis go to waste.

Australia joins U.S. ships in South China Sea amid rising tension


----------



## Dame (Apr 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> ETA: China ain't been letting this crisis go to waste.


And in that vein, here's just a little more Chinese government activity from their "Bureau of Innocent of Any Wrong-Doing." 
Chinese Agents Spread Messages That Sowed Virus Panic in U.S., Officials Say


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2020)

Marine Corps Suspends PFT for Remainder of 2020

There will be a few happy fat bodies sighing relief.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm going to vehemently disagree with this.  You can choose to be quite transitive with your morals and decide to seek aid under the bill.  Although I look cross-eyed at Shake Shack and Ruth's Chris for doing so, on the business side I completely understand where they're coming from.
> 
> Harvard? Fuck Em.  They have a 40B endowment that allows them to weather any storm.
> 
> ...



Not just being mad because Havard is a "liberal elite" school, right?

Because The Univesrity of Texas has a 30 billion dollar endowment and took $172 million.

It's almost like businesses and schools are taking advantage of the way the bill was written, even if they don't need to.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Not just being mad because Havard is a "liberal elite" school, right?
> 
> Because The Univesrity of Texas has a 30 billion dollar endowment and took $172 million.
> 
> It's almost like businesses and schools are taking advantage of the way the bill was written, even if they don't need to.



Thank you for finding that, UT can eat shit too.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 22, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It's almost like businesses and schools are taking advantage of the way the bill was written, even if they don't need to.


Just further examples as to why the rush and necessity to create all these stimulus packages is misplaced.  But, whatever. It's only taxpayer money, right?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

I see the New York Times is starting to pick up what's going down...
Chinese Agents Helped Spread Messages That Sowed Virus Panic in U.S., Officials Say

Behind a Pay wall though ugh


----------



## Dame (Apr 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I see the New York Times is starting to pick up what's going down...
> Chinese Agents Helped Spread Messages That Sowed Virus Panic in U.S., Officials Say
> Behind a Pay wall though ugh


The one I posted seems to work. It goes through Yahoo news.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm going to vehemently disagree with this.  You can choose to be quite transitive with your morals and decide to seek aid under the bill.  Although I look cross-eyed at Shake Shack and Ruth's Chris for doing so, on the business side I completely understand where they're coming from.
> 
> Harvard? Fuck Em.  They have a 40B endowment that allows them to weather any storm.
> 
> ...



That $40B endowment is most likely nearly all tied up in an investment, such as stocks. They most likely do not have any where near that amount given the current market.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 22, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> That $40B endowment is most likely nearly all tied up in an investment, such as stocks. They most likely do not have any where near that amount given the current market.



Surely they have to have a plan to have a large sum in liquidity to move as necessary.  Not at all saying we are the end-all-be-all, but our hospital and university have made some sound financial decisions so as to minimally impact operations.  That said, I would be curious to know a) if we took money, and b) what the intent is.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Surely they have to have a plan to have a large sum in liquidity to move as necessary.  Not at all saying we are the end-all-be-all, but our hospital and university have made some sound financial decisions so as to minimally impact operations.  That said, I would be curious to know a) if we took money, and b) what the intent is.



No doubt, however, why use your own money when someone else offers you theirs for cheaper?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

Dame said:


> The one I posted seems to work. It goes through Yahoo news.


Ahhh, for some reason I thought it was different.  Word.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2020)

Harvard finally agrees to return coronavirus relief millions


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 22, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> That $40B endowment is most likely nearly all tied up in an investment, such as stocks. They most likely do not have any where near that amount given the current market.


UT has billions in Gold.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

Queensland, Australia, three guys having a beer on the roof away from everything get surrounded and police helicopter is also used...lol wtf.

Police chopper deployed in busting three-man rooftop party

What a waste.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> UT has billions in Gold.



It's crazy the amount of money schools have in endowments. That said, they are there to drive income for future years.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Queensland, Australia, three guys having a beer on the roof away from everything get surrounded and police helicopter is also used...lol wtf.
> 
> Police chopper deployed in busting three-man rooftop party
> 
> What a waste.



Well they were also tresspassing so it was illegal for them to be there in a lot of different ways so...


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 22, 2020)

We're all doomed.

Can COVID-19 be spread through farts?


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> We're all doomed.
> 
> Can COVID-19 be spread through farts?


Let's find out.

Pull my finger


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 22, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Let's find out.
> 
> Pull my finger



I would, but social distancing won't allow it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 22, 2020)

Tucker exposes Chris Cuomo for being full of shit.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Tucker exposes Chris Cuomo for being full of shit.




Slow news day?


----------



## digrar (Apr 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Queensland, Australia, three guys having a beer on the roof away from everything get surrounded and police helicopter is also used...lol wtf.
> 
> Police chopper deployed in busting three-man rooftop party
> 
> What a waste.



Sounds like the aircraft was already up in the air on a normal patrol.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Tucker exposes Chris Cuomo for being full of shit.


Poor Freddo, guy is so dense he screws up at playing quarantine. I mean... it's not like one can expect much from a Cuomo.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 23, 2020)

And Freedom continues to erode in Texas.  Lina Hidalgo announces mandatory mask order for Harris County

It appears Houston PD isn't about to be interested in enforcing that as they've sought a legal opinion from Texas AG.  Hidalgo could be removed (probably should be).


----------



## Muppet (Apr 23, 2020)

Only in Philly yo


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 23, 2020)

Preliminary Data out of New York: Contagious. But mortality rate is being driven into the ground.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253352837255438338
WHO: China has contained the Virus

Hahahaha, nope.  

China puts a city of 10 million 'on lockdown' to curb new outbreak


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 23, 2020)

516 of the 713 COVID-19 deaths in Ontario are all in long term care. Premier Ford confirmed his mother in law tested positive this week. It's the first time he's near broken down speaking to the public.

'We have to do a better job': Ontario premier says long-term care system is broken

Ontario premier's mother-in-law, 95, tests positive for COVID-19 in long-term care home


----------



## Bambi (Apr 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Preliminary Data out of New York: Contagious. But mortality rate is being driven into the ground.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253352837255438338
> ...


Mama Mia, here we go again!


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 23, 2020)

One of the most entertaining things to come out this thing is the ridiculous tone shifts that seem to happen every few days with the president.
Last week it was "liberate" Michigan, Virginia, and Minnesota, but this week its saying Georgia shouldn't open up yet because they haven't hit White House guidelines?

Watching my friends (all sides) contort themselves into pretzels when they agree with the message is stupidly fun.

ETA: On a separate note, Colorado is gearing up for a soft re-opening next week. As Gov. Polis put it;

"We're going from the bunny slopes to the green circles, but if we fall on the green we go back to the bunny hills."


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Preliminary Data out of New York: Contagious. But mortality rate is being driven into the ground.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253352837255438338
> ...


ROTFLMAO.

Probable carrier was a student who flew home from NYC.

    

Karma baby.


----------



## pardus (Apr 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Blame the way the bill was written..



Agreed, though I'll cut the govt a little bit of slack as the bill went through rather quickly. That said, this a great opportunity for We The People to exercise their freedom, ethics and morals. Can you take it? Should you take it? I'm heartened to see some entities returning the money, but the cynic in me is already wondering what's going to happen to the returned money. I kind of feel like a flood of money has been released. What are we up to, like 3 Trillion now? People lost their shit when the banks got 1 Trillion. I don't have answers just musing.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 24, 2020)

The Navy has recommended to SECDEF reinstating the fired carrier captain....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 24, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The Navy has recommended to SECDEF reinstating the fired carrier captain....


So who is getting fired?


----------



## Steve1839 (Apr 24, 2020)

Some folks are just plain tone deaf, stupid, whatever...cut the pay of folks treating patients, but pay bonuses to all the admin folks...

Denver Health Executives Get Bonuses 1 Week After Workers Asked To Take Cuts


----------



## AWP (Apr 24, 2020)

PA has revised its death toll...down by some 200 fatalities.

Pa. removes 200 deaths from state coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, accuracy

We're putting our faith in, and planning around, models with incomplete or incorrect data. I understand that this is unprecedented, but IMO we have even scientists making emotional decisions without all of the facts...and then we're told to trust the scientists. Maybe this is worse than we know, maybe it is much better than we know, but I don't see how anyone can trust the data.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 24, 2020)

WHY THE FUCK CAN'T THESE IDIOTS JUST PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS?

Pressured by China, E.U. Softens Report on Covid-19 Disinformation

Sorry for yelling.  Also it's behind a paywall.

No paywall on reuters

China pressured EU to drop COVID disinformation criticism: sources


----------



## AWP (Apr 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> WHY THE FUCK CAN'T THESE IDIOTS JUST PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS?
> 
> Pressured by China, E.U. Softens Report on Covid-19 Disinformation
> 
> ...



Money talks, "bullshit" walks.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 25, 2020)

I'm pretty sure that this Sheriff's department just exposed an entire community of people to a shit ton of things that aren't coronavirus.

Police break up Amish party, make arrest after 911 call for violating COVID-19 stay-at-home rules

How hard is it to leave people alone? Arizona hasn't mailed anything out in regards to Social distancing, so there is zero chance these people would know.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 25, 2020)

Being an introvert, this is the best time of my life....and a fucking salesman.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Apr 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm pretty sure that this Sheriff's department just exposed an entire community of people to a shit ton of things that aren't coronavirus.
> 
> Police break up Amish party, make arrest after 911 call for violating COVID-19 stay-at-home rules
> 
> How hard is it to leave people alone? Arizona hasn't mailed anything out in regards to Social distancing, so there is zero chance these people would know.




You have way too much naivete when it comes to Amish and today's society. I sat in an air conditioned nice waiting area with computers and modern lighting, at a modern shop, to be loaded by diesel powered forklift... at an Amish wagon production facility in PA.  There were internal combustion vehicles for everyone there (all of them Amish good old boys to the T) and zero stables there... the stables were across the street for the farmer.

Long story short, Amish basically do the hell they want according to how they feel. Sorta like any religious sect.


----------



## Polar Bear (Apr 25, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> You have way too much naivete when it comes to Amish and today's society. I sat in an air conditioned nice waiting area with computers and modern lighting, at a modern shop, to be loaded by diesel powered forklift... at an Amish wagon production facility in PA.  There were internal combustion vehicles for everyone there (all of them Amish good old boys to the T) and zero stables there... the stables were across the street for the farmer.
> 
> Long story short, Amish basically do the hell they want according to how they feel. Sorta like any religious sect.


You coming through Cincinnati?


----------



## Ranger Psych (Apr 25, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> You coming through Cincinnati?



Not anytime soon, I'm actually out of trucking now and completely on the west coast now.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 25, 2020)

pardus said:


> Agreed, though I'll cut the govt a little bit of slack as the bill went through rather quickly. That said, this a great opportunity for We The People to exercise their freedom, ethics and morals. Can you take it? Should you take it? I'm heartened to see some entities returning the money, but the cynic in me is already wondering what's going to happen to the returned money. I kind of feel like a flood of money has been released. What are we up to, like 3 Trillion now? People lost their shit when the banks got 1 Trillion. I don't have answers just musing.



I don't know what color of money they are using for the loans/Grant's, but it will most likely just go back to the treasury and not be made available for other businesses to use.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So who is getting fired?



SECNAV quit so that may be enough.  It seems the Navy does not think that the captain did anything worth getting fired or having his command terminated.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 25, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> You have way too much naivete when it comes to Amish and today's society. I sat in an air conditioned nice waiting area with computers and modern lighting, at a modern shop, to be loaded by diesel powered forklift... at an Amish wagon production facility in PA.  There were internal combustion vehicles for everyone there (all of them Amish good old boys to the T) and zero stables there... the stables were across the street for the farmer.
> 
> Long story short, Amish basically do the hell they want according to how they feel. Sorta like any religious sect.


I'm going to disagree with me being naive to how Amish live and work.  I have experience with Amish just as you describe.  And then I've also met the closed off commune types as they've gone into towns to get what they've needed.  The Amish, like the Mennonites aren't homogenous.

I have a lot more experience with the Mennonites though as half my grandmother's family were Mennonites and the other Brethren.  My uncle left for Kansas immediately upon graduating high school to join the Mennonite faith because he didn't seeing how their Brethren church was devolving (a lot of divorces at this point in the mid-70s).  You have all kinds of Mennonites, there are even ones that watch TV.  Then you have the self-contained communes of the Old Order types that you will find near Harrisonburg, VA.  In fact there were two different sects of Old Order Mennonites in Harrisonburg, you had the kind that used Tractors (but they had to have steel wheels, no rubber tread) and the kind that used horse drawn plows.

Regular transportation for both sects was horse drawn wagon, buggy, or horseback.

My uncle and his family, they're of a section called Church of God & Christ Mennonites, and they're one of the more modern types.  They have phones and the internet for business.  But these people still buy all of their vehicles and equipment at Auction and not from the dealer, then they have the radios removed from them and clocks installed.  (Bizarre, just don't listen, right?)  They also don't educate their people past the 10th grade, 8th in some states.  Yet they have their own hospitals, their doctors they bring in from the outside.  My cousin is a register nurse and needed a waiver to be able to attend the junior college nursing program.  It wasn't an easy process. I kept asking why the heck they wouldn't just let her achieve a BSN.

Needless to say, it is definitely more like that last line.

ETA: Different Subject, more anti-body studies going down.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253795131024687106


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> WHY THE FUCK CAN'T THESE IDIOTS JUST PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS?
> 
> Pressured by China, E.U. Softens Report on Covid-19 Disinformation
> 
> ...


Might have something to do with all the European ports the CCP owns. I get the sinking feeling that the the EU has whored itself out to China, so much so that they risk fracturing if China pulls the rug out from under them.

Part of me thinks certain figureheads in the EU are going to side with China just to keep their farce of a 'Union' intact. (Granted we're in the same boat as well...)


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 25, 2020)

But the Orange Man bad.

New York refused to send nursing home’s COVID-19 patients to nearly empty USNS Comfort


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 25, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253258050540109824


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> PA has revised its death toll...down by some 200 fatalities.
> 
> Pa. removes 200 deaths from state coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, accuracy
> 
> We're putting our faith in, and planning around, models with incomplete or incorrect data. I understand that this is unprecedented, but IMO we have even scientists making emotional decisions without all of the facts...and then we're told to trust the scientists. Maybe this is worse than we know, maybe it is much better than we know, but I don't see how anyone can trust the data.


Couldn't agree more and I've said this from the beginning. It's resulted in a lot of problems.  

Fear begets fear.  Calm begets calm.  They've continued to run worst case scenarios with flawed models.  No one says anything about it.  We just hear "he/she is an expert". So, no one challenges back.  The media is culpable here as well because they clearly have no capacity or willingness to think critically about the topics on which they report.  So, they stick with the sensational stories, which drives the fear and panic.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 25, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Couldn't agree more and I've said this from the beginning. It's resulted in a lot of problems.
> 
> Fear begets fear.  Calm begets calm.  They've continued to run worst case scenarios with flawed models.  No one says anything about it.  We just hear "he/she is an expert". So, no one challenges back.  The media is culpable here as well because they clearly have no capacity or willingness to think critically about the topics on which they report.  So, they stick with the sensational stories, which drives the fear and panic.




Just anecdotal, but since a lot of the flyover states are now receiving their tests we've started to actually get a picture of our situation and because of that we had a town nearby be awarded the highest rate of CV19 in the entire country. Naturally I had a few of my employees freak out saying that they were gonna take a few months off because 'we're turning into New York'. 

When in reality the only reason because of that slike is because we have now started fully testing in our area.

What I'm trying to say is that yes the media plays a huge role and so do expertsand how they act and carry themselves. But I'd argue it's just as much on Joe and Jane as well, people need to look at the big picture and take all sides of the argument instead of jumping at the headline or looking at whatever statistic fuels their bias.


----------



## AWP (Apr 25, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> What I'm trying to say is that yes the media plays a huge role and so do expertsand how they act and carry themselves. But I'd argue it's just as much on Joe and Jane as well, people need to look at the big picture and take all sides of the argument instead of jumping at the headline or looking at whatever statistic fuels their bias.



Wait, are you saying people should take an active role in thinking about and processing information, making their own conclusions rather than some rando on the TV?

Son, this is America we're talking about. Go haze yourself.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Apr 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> Wait, are you saying people should take an active role in thinking about and processing information, making their own conclusions rather than some rando on the TV?
> 
> Son, this is America we're talking about. Go haze yourself.



Exactly. The America where people bury their heads in the phones and spout whatever shit supports their own agenda or beliefs.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 26, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 26, 2020)

Yeah, not surprised: Canada: 1 million respirators acquired from China unfit for coronavirus fight


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yeah, not surprised: Canada: 1 million respirators acquired from China unfit for coronavirus fight



They've been fucking with us the whole time and our idiot in charge refuses to call them out on anything.   We had 2 planes on the tarmac waiting for delivery of PPE.  The trucks were held up at check points and they forced the planes to leave empty due to time limits in airspace.


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 26, 2020)

This censorship of anything that isn't "authorized" by the WHO is completely out of control.  

YouTube Removes Biotech Company's Video Showing Potential Internal UVA Light Treatment for Coronavirus


----------



## Marine0311 (Apr 26, 2020)

Can people who are otherwise healthy die from this? if so how/why?


----------



## CQB (Apr 26, 2020)

I’m my amateur opinion...

Scientists are trying to figure out why Covid-19 hits some young, healthy people hard


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 26, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’m my amateur opinion...
> 
> Scientists are trying to figure out why Covid-19 hits some young, healthy people hard


I would love for "experts" to quit talking in vague generalizations with zero context; ie. "a lot of young people", "some people", etc.

Keep in mind that over 3/4 of the cases are mild and require no hospitalization or additional care.  Ex. in MN, 272 have repirtedly died from Covid-19 since early March.  The median age of those deaths is 83 years old.  More than 200 of those deaths were people in group-living facilities.  Our youngest death was reported today; a 44 year old woman with underlying health issues and lived in an assisted care facility.

So, when I read stories like the one above, I have to ask, what are they really talking about?  What does "a lot" really mean, particularly in the context of a broader perspective?  Seems these are really outlier cases.  They need to be understood but they also need perspective.  We have such a myopic view of this thing right now that no one is stepping back for that context and perspective.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 26, 2020)




----------



## RackMaster (Apr 26, 2020)

I think now that medical examiners are getting into things, they'll start finding more.  

Exclusive: Coronavirus caused heart to rupture in nation's first known victim, autopsy shows

2 Californians died of coronavirus weeks before previously known 1st US death

And the younger tend to die of stroke, it seems now. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 26, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Can people who are otherwise healthy die from this? if so how/why?




To give some insight, certain patients develop ARDS from it. The problem is that there isn't a set criteria for it, just once you develop ARDS you're basically on a one way ticket to the big man.


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 26, 2020)

Rudy asking them important questions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254513987196248065


----------



## Bambi (Apr 26, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Rudy asking them important questions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254513987196248065


Wait, I forget, who was President in 2017? 🤔


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 26, 2020)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 26, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Rudy asking them important questions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254513987196248065


Calling shenanigans here. Why would POTUS give China 3.7 million when congess was stiffing him funds for the wall and other projects here in the US?


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 26, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> View attachment 33526


Coronavirus becomes number one cause of death per day in U.S., surpassing heart disease and cancer


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Calling shenanigans here. Why would POTUS give China 3.7 million when congess was stiffing him funds for the wall and other projects here in the US?


Are you saying that Rudy Giuliani, America’s mayor, is promoting a falsehood??


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Calling shenanigans here. Why would POTUS give China 3.7 million when congess was stiffing him funds for the wall and other projects here in the US?



I know its Snopes and most people have some feelings about them, but it was one of the top responses to Rudy.
Seems Rudy is conflating a few different dates and dollar amounts.

Im still reading, but the TLDR portion is this;



Ok, back for a summary.

The NIH got money in 2014 to give grants to research labs to study coronaviruses. A paper was published from Wuhan in 2017 on coronaviruses, which listed the NIH grant as a funding source. 

The project budget was renewed every year up until 2019 without a renewal request, and in 2019 they submitted a renewal and were approved.

Seems like a poor attempt at trying to make this a conspiracy theory, a la the "Bill Gates funded this!" type, just subbing Obama for the mastermind though.


----------



## digrar (Apr 26, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Coronavirus becomes number one cause of death per day in U.S., surpassing heart disease and cancer



Second comment.



> A heart attack death in someone with coronavirus (or flu or cancer or anything else) is still a heart attack (or flu or cancer or whatever else) death, not a coronavirus death. Right now that heart attack death in a person who has coronavirus is being counted as a coronavirus death. This is scientific malpractice.



I'm seeing this argument a lot in my "gee those fuckers weren't that dumb when I used to know them back in the day" facebook feed.
 It seems overly pedantic to me. People live with heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, old age, they wouldn't have died this week if it wasn't for covid. So it's a covid death for mine.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 26, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Are you saying that Rudy Giuliani, America’s mayor, is promoting a falsehood??


I'm saying you're misrepresenting something you are posting (along with the comments). Did you read the 2016 or 2017 Omnibus bill where those funds came from? Who put that funding there?

Seriously man, I think it's bonkers that you're in DC and yet you're misrepresenting the way stuff works at the capitol. 



Cookie_ said:


> I know its Snopes and most people have some feelings about them, but it was one of the top responses to Rudy.
> Seems Rudy is conflating a few different dates and dollar amounts.
> 
> Im still reading, but the TLDR portion is this;
> ...


@cookie Considering how our budget is rammed through by an incompetent congress, that likes to add pork willy nilly, I don't think anyone had a chance to actually read the spending bill. Much less the track record of the organizations that are receiving govt monies.

I remember one of the omnibus funding bills that was passed and the stack of paperwork that it encompassed was insane. I think we have enemy ideologues in govt who are taking advantage of an inept and corrupt congressional funding process.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 26, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> I'm saying you're misrepresenting something you are posting (along with the comments). Did you read the 2016 or 2017 Omnibus bill where those funds came from? Who put that funding there?
> 
> Seriously man, I think it's bonkers that you're in DC and yet you're misrepresenting the way stuff works at the capitol.


@R.Caerbannog 

Look, I get that you get fired up about this stuff and I am well aware that @Salt USMC can fight his own battles with you, but your post and the use of the word 'misrepresenting' can easily be misinterpreted as calling him a liar....which will only escalate the rhetoric that happens in these threads.  

So please, tone it down a just a bit?

Please and thank you.


----------



## CQB (Apr 26, 2020)

Regarding the funding, can we have a “Trump bankrolled virus” headline?


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 27, 2020)

CQB said:


> Regarding the funding, can we have a “Trump bankrolled virus” headline?


If it doesn’t exist already, feel free to make one. Why the fuck not?


----------



## CQB (Apr 27, 2020)

I’m surprised the press haven’t done it yet.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 27, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’m surprised the press haven’t done it yet.




But that would go against the narrative that China isn't responsible for the virus.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 27, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Can people who are otherwise healthy die from this? if so how/why?



One of our in-house physicians is seeing a lot of young people who get this end up with pulmonary edema and pulmonary thrombosis.  of course, we do not know what the long-term consequences will be, if this is something that will self-correct or if this is something they will have for the rest of their life.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 27, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> One of our in-house physicians is seeing a lot of young people who get this end up with pulmonary edema and pulmonary thrombosis.  of course, we do not know what the long-term consequences will be, if this is something that will self-correct or if this is something they will have for the rest of their life.


I'll go lifelong for $100 Alex.


----------



## Cookie_ (Apr 27, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> @cookie
> ..POST...



I agree with you on the funding. I think I updated my post to reflect that before you commented. 

It's an attempt to "blame" the money on someone, even though we know that's not how it works. 

We can still laugh at Rudy saying it was Obama's fault in 2017 though


----------



## CQB (Apr 27, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> But that would go against the narrative that China isn't responsible for the virus.


I was thinking more like putting ‘Trump’ in a headline would sell a newspaper & no so much who is responsible.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 27, 2020)

CQB said:


> I was thinking more like putting ‘Trump’ in a headline would sell a newspaper & no so much who is responsible.


Be sure to insinuate suspected organ harvesting, and tease bathtub pix of a dead hooker to back it up.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 27, 2020)

CQB said:


> I was thinking more like putting ‘Trump’ in a headline would sell a newspaper & no so much who is responsible.




I get where you're coming from, but it's interesting to think about what matters more. Orange man bad, or #ChinaDidNothingWrong


----------



## Kraut783 (Apr 27, 2020)

*Coronavirus spreads in a New York nursing home forced to take recovering patient*

"The coronavirus patients began arriving the last week of March, transferred to the Gurwin Jewish Nursing and Rehabilitation Center under a New York state mandate requiring nursing homes to accept those recovering from COVID-19, even if they still might be contagious.

At the time, the Long Island nursing home had only one known resident who had contracted the virus, according to the facility’s president and CEO, Stuart Almer.

A month later, Gurwin is battling an outbreak that’s killed 24 residents — only three of whom were hospital transfers — and one staff member, who worked in housekeeping, Almer said. And the nursing home is still mandated to take in recovering hospital patients known to have the virus, potentially increasing its spread in the facility."

At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 27, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> *Coronavirus spreads in a New York nursing home forced to take recovering patient*
> 
> "The coronavirus patients began arriving the last week of March, transferred to the Gurwin Jewish Nursing and Rehabilitation Center under a New York state mandate requiring nursing homes to accept those recovering from COVID-19, even if they still might be contagious.
> 
> ...


JHFC...time to sue.  If you have family there, time to get 'em out.


----------



## CQB (Apr 27, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I get where you're coming from, but it's interesting to think about what matters more. Orange man bad, or #ChinaDidNothingWrong


Try as they might, no-one is believing them, either that they didn’t cause the problem or their efforts are the saviour for all.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 27, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> *Coronavirus spreads in a New York nursing home forced to take recovering patient*
> 
> "The coronavirus patients began arriving the last week of March, transferred to the Gurwin Jewish Nursing and Rehabilitation Center under a New York state mandate requiring nursing homes to accept those recovering from COVID-19, even if they still might be contagious.
> 
> ...


yet none were transferred to the Comfort?
Why did the navy have to deploy her again?
Fuck New York


----------



## Kraut783 (Apr 27, 2020)

From April 7th reporting.....

*New York's Temporary Overflow Hospitals Remain Underused Despite COVID-19 Crisis*

"Two temporary hospital facilities are open in New York City inside a major convention center and aboard a Navy hospital ship. But so far, both have far fewer patients than they can handle"

New York's Temporary Overflow Hospitals Remain Underused Despite COVID-19 Crisis

So....apparently never utilized....

==================================

and reported on April 23rd...

*USNS Comfort to leave New York City after spending three weeks mostly empty of patients*

USNS Comfort to leave New York City after spending three weeks mostly empty of patients


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 27, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> From April 7th reporting.....
> 
> *New York's Temporary Overflow Hospitals Remain Underused Despite COVID-19 Crisis*
> 
> ...


This actually pisses me off.  

All we've heard about, nearly from day 1, was how overwhelmed the hospitals were - to the point where EMS was turning away patients that were "too critical to be saved" and/or critical patients being returned home because of low probability for survival.  

I know of one such example where the family member of a co-worker suffered a severe stroke.  The co-worker in this case lives in CA.  The family member lives in NY.  Due to the severity of the stroke, the family member was returned home.  To complicate matters, travel for the co-worker in these times has becoming challenging but they wanted to return home to be with their parent.  That sucks.  Based on these reports above, none of this needed to occur.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I agree with you on the funding. I think I updated my post to reflect that before you commented.
> 
> It's an attempt to "blame" the money on someone, even though we know that's not how it works.
> 
> We can still laugh at Rudy saying it was Obama's fault in 2017 though


Yeah it takes me a bit to write out a post, so when I quoted you the additional information wasn't there. No worries.

That's what I'm finding so devious about those types of Twitter postings. It doesn't matter what's posted, there is a 'blue checkmark' that provides counter or straight up misinformation. What's even more worrisome is the people who get the 'blue checkmark'. That system is incredibly biased towards people who literally live and think in social bubbles. (There's even a term and a supposed social connotation for this on the urban dictionary... 'Blue Checkmark'.)

I dunno, I think Twitter posts like those are basically self licking ice cream cones that can either generate spin for the MSM or can serve as back door PYSOP opportunities for outside parties. At the end of the day, I don't know who wrote the post, who responded, their motivations, or if there's been some backdoor editing going on. Hence my distrust.


DA SWO said:


> yet none were transferred to the Comfort?
> Why did the navy have to deploy her again?
> Fuck New York


From what I was hearing on the news or pressers (can't remember), the Comfort was supposed to be a stop gap where critical non-covid patients were gonna be treated. I'm guessing they wanted the comfort to be a 'clean' ship for when shit hit the fan.

If anything, it's testament to our Corps of Engineers building and staging resources so quickly. Too bad they were mismanaged, considering how NY wanted to monopolize resources at the expense of the rest of the country.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 28, 2020)

Sad to read this.  Rest-in-peace, Doc.

Top ER doctor who treated virus patients dies by suicide


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 28, 2020)

Just remember, the Constitution is not suspended: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254904177852997632


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 28, 2020)

When the Constitution was written, it was written with expectation that the population had a modicum of common sense.

Americans are orders of magnitude dumber today than 244 years ago. That the AG has to even make this statement dissolves what little hope I had for this country.


----------



## Grunt (Apr 28, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> When the Constitution was written, it was written with expectation that the population had a modicum of common sense.
> 
> Americans are orders of magnitude dumber today than 244 years ago. That the AG has to even make this statement dissolves what little hope I had for this country.



Yep...and I find that fear breeds a stronger since of stupidity amongst the herds due to people giving up what *little* individual logic they still possessed.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 28, 2020)

If you want a glimpse into the life of a Paramedic in New York City during the pandemic, take a moment to listen to this interview with a couple of medics. The first one worked 13 cardiac arrests for just their ambulance, for a 16 hour shift, another paramedic who answered 37 cardiac arrests in one week.

I do not know how the different boroughs are faring or how each hospital in NYC is operating, but I can tell you as a former paramedic, and I am certain my esteemed colleages @Muppet and @policemedic would agree, these arrest numbers are other-worldly and staggering.    

State of Emergency - This American Life


----------



## medicchick (Apr 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If you want a glimpse into the life of a Paramedic in New York City during the pandemic, take a moment to listen to this interview with a couple of medics. The first one worked 13 cardiac arrests for just their ambulance, for a 16 hour shift, another paramedic who answered 37 cardiac arrests in one week.
> 
> I do not know how the different boroughs are faring or how each hospital in NYC is operating, but I can tell you as a former paramedic, and I am certain my esteemed colleages @Muppet and @policemedic would agree, these arrest numbers are other-worldly and staggering.
> 
> State of Emergency - This American Life


Holy crap they are. Two a week used to be normalish for the city I grew up in (~200k people).


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If you want a glimpse into the life of a Paramedic in New York City during the pandemic, take a moment to listen to this interview with a couple of medics. The first one worked 13 cardiac arrests for just their ambulance, for a 16 hour shift, another paramedic who answered 37 cardiac arrests in one week.
> 
> I do not know how the different boroughs are faring or how each hospital in NYC is operating, but I can tell you as a former paramedic, and I am certain my esteemed colleages @Muppet and @policemedic would agree, these arrest numbers are other-worldly and staggering.
> 
> State of Emergency - This American Life


What's interesting is how much conflicting data there is out there.

We have the experience you describe then we have this occurring up here:
Twin Cities Emergency Rooms Seeing Drastic Drop In Non-COVID-19 Patients


> Some Minnesota hospitals worry Minnesotans feel forced to stay away if they have a medical emergency unrelated to COVID-19.
> 
> “I think people are afraid to come in because they don’t want to get sick,” said Dr. Dave Milbrandt, the VP of Emergency Medicine at M Health Fairview.
> 
> ...


So, here, at least, if calls are up (I don't know that they are, this data point is missing), they're never making it to the ER.

What's even more interesting to me is this:
Data Shows Reduction in U.S. Heart Attack Activations During COVID-19 Pandemic


			
				Cath Lab Digest said:
			
		

> The Minneapolis Heart Institute Foundation® (MHIF) announced today the publication of a real-time data analysis pulled from its regional Level One STEMI (ST-elevation myocardial infarction) program that includes data reported from nine participating U.S. STEMI Centers.  *The preliminary analysis during the COVID-19 pandemic shows a 38-percent reduction in U.S. cardiac catheterization laboratory STEMI activations.* This finding is consistent with the reduction reported in Spain. The analysis was published today in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
> 
> Given current potential environmental and emotional stressors, and a higher case of STEMI that is typically induced by viral illness, this is a departure from the increase in STEMI procedures that would have been expected. *Potential rationale for the decrease in STEMI activations include:*
> 
> ...



A nearly 40% unexplained drop in cardio procedures since this began.  I've heard a similar from a cardiologist repeated second hand to me.

So, what's going on?


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I do not know how the different boroughs are faring or how each hospital in NYC is operating, but I can tell you as a former paramedic, and I am certain my esteemed colleages @Muppet and @policemedic would agree, these arrest numbers are other-worldly and staggering.



11 of the top 20 counties nationwide for deaths from COVID-19, normalized by population, are in the NYC/NJ area.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 28, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> 11 of the top 20 counties nationwide for deaths from COVID-19, normalized by population, are in the NYC/NJ area.


Which I'll guess are probably pretty close to the top if the list globally as well.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Apr 28, 2020)

So....its like this.....



I love this guy....the strings really seal the deal.....Cross thread Homeland....


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 28, 2020)

The New York Times has identified my Fair City as being the likely next "hot spot", and has the highest (COVID) growth and death rate.  

Woo hoo!  We're number one! We're number one!

A good example of statistics, take away the nursing homes, and we are probably, like, number 2,443,219....


----------



## Dame (Apr 28, 2020)

Dear @Polar Bear ,
I am your biggest fan. That means a lot because my dad was Superman.
Sincerely,
Will Reeves

Reporter goes viral on 'GMA' after 'hilariously mortifying' video appearance with no pants


----------



## policemedic (Apr 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If you want a glimpse into the life of a Paramedic in New York City during the pandemic, take a moment to listen to this interview with a couple of medics. The first one worked 13 cardiac arrests for just their ambulance, for a 16 hour shift, another paramedic who answered 37 cardiac arrests in one week.
> 
> I do not know how the different boroughs are faring or how each hospital in NYC is operating, but I can tell you as a former paramedic, and I am certain my esteemed colleages @Muppet and @policemedic would agree, these arrest numbers are other-worldly and staggering.
> 
> State of Emergency - This American Life



Those numbers are staggering considering what normal workloads are.  I generally see more trauma codes than other causes these days, but even when I was working a regular truck in the city and county, you could go a week or so without a medical code.  And often, those codes were field pronouncements as the patient wasn't viable/responding to resuscitative measures.  Trauma codes are their own animal, of course.

I think back to the last intubation I was involved with, which wasn't that long ago but before the cooties came on the scene.  It was an auto/ped patient with a GCS 3 and the tube had to be done on the street (literally, on the roadway) with c-spine precautions at night in the rain.  The other medic and I were all up in that airway without masks or eyepro.  That would never fly today.

I do know that prehospital codes are up in the city, but I don't have hard numbers.  I doubt it compares to NYC.


----------



## CQB (Apr 28, 2020)

On a related issue, our govt. is taking an interesting line on the PRC, our greatest trading partner. Stripped of diplomatic niceties it’s a bare knuckle fight. Our public message is “let the WHO investigate what occurred. Give it the powers of a weapons inspection team. We don’t want this to happen again.” Stevie Wonder can see what’s going on here.
The PRC predictably has gone bonkers, threatening economic retaliation, to which our Foreign Minister has replied diplomatically, fuck off. We’ve done this alone so far & I hope it gathers some momentum internationally.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> On a related issue, our govt. is taking an interesting line on the PRC, our greatest trading partner. Stripped of diplomatic niceties it’s a bare knuckle fight. Our public message is “let the WHO investigate what occurred. Give it the powers of a weapons inspection team. We don’t want this to happen again.” Stevie Wonder can see what’s going on here.
> The PRC predictably has gone bonkers, threatening economic retaliation, to which our Foreign Minister has replied diplomatically, fuck off. We’ve done this alone so far & I hope it gathers some momentum internationally.


I wouldn't trust the WHO to even investigate a case of crabs from a common street hooker.


----------



## CQB (Apr 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I wouldn't trust the WHO to even investigate a case of crabs from a common street hooker.


IMO that’s part of the play.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> On a related issue, our govt. is taking an interesting line on the PRC, our greatest trading partner. Stripped of diplomatic niceties it’s a bare knuckle fight. Our public message is “let the WHO investigate what occurred. Give it the powers of a weapons inspection team. We don’t want this to happen again.” Stevie Wonder can see what’s going on here.
> The PRC predictably has gone bonkers, threatening economic retaliation, to which our Foreign Minister has replied diplomatically, fuck off. We’ve done this alone so far & I hope it gathers some momentum internationally.


There's a series of fiction books about how Australians fear an "Asian" enemy from the North.  This was built around stereotypes from Australia's history with Japan of course but moreso the enemy in the series to my knowledge would be considered the Chinese if we were to actually give them a name.  I need to read the book, I have only seen the movie.  Tomorrow, When the War Began.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> On a related issue, our govt. is taking an interesting line on the PRC, our greatest trading partner. Stripped of diplomatic niceties it’s a bare knuckle fight. Our public message is “let the WHO investigate what occurred. Give it the powers of a weapons inspection team. We don’t want this to happen again.” Stevie Wonder can see what’s going on here.
> The PRC predictably has gone bonkers, threatening economic retaliation, to which our Foreign Minister has replied diplomatically, fuck off. We’ve done this alone so far & I hope it gathers some momentum internationally.


China's economic threats are hollow, they need you more then you need them.


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 28, 2020)

Our government will just call you racist. Don’t count on shit from us.


----------



## CQB (Apr 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There's a series of fiction books about how Australians fear an "Asian" enemy from the North.  This was built around stereotypes from Australia's history with Japan of course but moreso the enemy in the series to my knowledge would be considered the Chinese if we were to actually give them a name.  I need to read the book, I have only seen the movie.  Tomorrow, When the War Began.


There’s better books to read & I wouldn’t settle on fiction. The Yellow Peril pops up from time to time, with Japan & then with Indonesia who are both now allies. It’s been in the national consciousness for a considerable amount of time and now China, which dwarfs both these countries in terms of threat. Their intelligence gathering is industrial & the PRC doesn’t care if anyone is caught. They demand compliance & get nasty when they don’t get it. You can forget Huawei & 5G as we did. Our government got mugged by reality.


----------



## CQB (Apr 28, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Our government will just call you racist. Don’t count on shit from us.


Trump has been pretty good with ‘Jina. Kudos.


----------



## SpitfireV (Apr 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There's a series of fiction books about how Australians fear an "Asian" enemy from the North.  This was built around stereotypes from Australia's history with Japan of course but moreso the enemy in the series to my knowledge would be considered the Chinese if we were to actually give them a name.  I need to read the book, I have only seen the movie.  Tomorrow, When the War Began.



Based on the Indonesians. They were the kind of threat Asian actor in the 80s/90s.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Apr 28, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Our government will just call you racist. Don’t count on shit from us.


Well, elections are coming up. The politicians bought out by the Chicoms are rather obvious, based on the deals they've made with China and their silence on the Kung-Flu's origins. The trick is getting that information to Americans and so they can vote out CCP collaborators.


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 29, 2020)

Ummm....... optics? 



NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ummm....... optics?
> 
> View attachment 33586
> 
> NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.



They have given up on the pretext that it's about safety.  Yeah, the optics are horrible.


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ummm....... optics?
> 
> View attachment 33586
> 
> NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.


Oh geez.  What a dumbshit.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 29, 2020)

Why call out the Jewish communities specifically like that? Comes off as super antisemitic, while also seemingly to avoid the other Semites... Muslims


----------



## Salt USMC (Apr 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Why call out the Jewish communities specifically like that? Comes off as super antisemitic, while also seemingly to avoid the other Semites... Muslims


I was wondering about that too because it seems pretty out of character for Bill DB.  Apparently a Hasidic rabbi passed away due to COVID and the community was having mass funeral gatherings to mourn him, which prompted the tweet.

De Blasio condemns funeral for rabbi, receives backlash for his comments on 'Jewish community'


Still, who thought that tweet was a good idea?  That rates pretty high on the Dumbass meter


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ummm....... optics?
> 
> View attachment 33586
> 
> NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.


Yeah I read it. It was real, fuck that guy.  Don't worry though, DeBlasio has been out and about and definitely not social distancing.  He's been heckled by many.

But what the freakin eff?

ETA:  Whether you like Shapiro or not . . . he has a point.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255532985744609283


----------



## Dame (Apr 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> *Why call out the Jewish communities specifically like that?* Comes off as super antisemitic, while also seemingly to avoid the other Semites... Muslims


1. He _is_ antisemitic.
2. His birth name was Warren Wilhelm, Jr.  Maybe sounded too German Jew for him?
3. Someone in the community passed away who was well loved. Jealousy.
Also, the motherfucker *showed up himself* to help break it up.


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 29, 2020)

Dame said:


> showed up himself



Now, that is straight up attention seeking behavior.


----------



## SaintKP (Apr 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ummm....... optics?
> 
> View attachment 33586
> 
> NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.




Laughing because of how obtuse? Ignorant? Lacking tact? Mayor De Blasio is.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Ummm....... optics?
> 
> View attachment 33586
> 
> NYC bout to start rounding up the Jews.


Comrade de Blasio is lucky I don't run DoJ.
I'd be in Federal Court seeking an emergency injunction to prevent De Blasio from rounding Jews up and interning them (yes I would use those words).


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 29, 2020)

The Fuck!

Nearly 70 dead in 'horrific' outbreak at U.S. veterans' home


----------



## Blizzard (Apr 29, 2020)

^ This is the problem.  These cluster outbreaks occuring in assisted living facilities.  

In MN, 249 of our 319 deaths (nearly 80%) were people in long-term congregate care facilities!


----------



## 0699 (Apr 29, 2020)

We should be spending less time "sheltering-in-place" and more time protecting the at-risk populations.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 29, 2020)

The WHO confuses me: WHO lauds Sweden as a ‘model’ in coronavirus fight for resisting lockdown


----------



## CQB (Apr 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The WHO confuses me: WHO lauds Sweden as a ‘model’ in coronavirus fight for resisting lockdown


What the article doesn’t mention is that the majority of deaths are the elderly. A Swedish guy I know has moved his mother here because of their stance. He won’t be back.


----------



## Dame (Apr 30, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Comrade de Blasio is lucky I don't run DoJ.
> I'd be in Federal Court seeking an emergency injunction to prevent De Blasio from rounding Jews up and interning them (yes I would use those words).


Ya know, AG Barr impresses me more and more.
Barr orders legal action against governors whose COVID-19 actions infringe on civil rights


----------



## AWP (Apr 30, 2020)

Today I read about Jacobson v Massachusetts. How would that ruling affect any court cases, state mandated stay-at-home orders, breaking up crowds, etc.?

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)



> It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine.



Jacobson v. Massachusetts - Wikipedia



> The Supreme Court reaffirmed its decision in Jacobson in Zucht v. King (1922), which held that a school system could refuse admission to a student who failed to receive a required vaccination.
> 
> During the 2020 coronavirus pandemic, the federal United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit relied on Jacobson when upholding a Texas regulation halting abortions by including it in its ban on non-essential medical services and surgeries, consistent with Justice Blackmun's citing of the case in Roe v. Wade.



As an aside, de Blasio going there in person is just a bullshit grandstanding move. If he had any sense of being a human fucking being he'd have stayed home.


----------



## Devildoc (Apr 30, 2020)

AWP said:


> Today I read about Jacobson v Massachusetts. How would that ruling affect any court cases, state mandated stay-at-home orders, breaking up crowds, etc.?
> 
> Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)
> 
> ...



Abortions are entirely and always an elective procedure.  The number which are done "to save the mother's life" is so statistically small it does not even count into the numbers.

As for school vax, school enrollment is voluntary, not compulsory, so if you choose to send your kids, then you have to abide by their rules.  Private schools, homeschools, and others can set their own standards and rules.


----------



## Florida173 (Apr 30, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255619980646912000


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 30, 2020)

Dame said:


> Ya know, AG Barr impresses me more and more.
> Barr orders legal action against governors whose COVID-19 actions infringe on civil rights


Misleading headline. 
He just said look in to it and consider action.
I'll be  impressed if they take any action.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 30, 2020)

*Retailers, Please Don’t Let People Return the Stuff They Hoarded*



> So make the greedy bastards who sought to price gouge by buying up all the supplies in their area, eat the cost of their unsold inventory. Make the idiots who bought more toilet paper than they could use in their lifetime  absorb the cost of their folly. Make the people who cleaned out the rice, tuna pouches, and canned food learn a lesson by keeping it on their shelves.
> 
> I’m not talking just the “big fish” either. Everyone who bought more than they needed, deprived someone else in need. So, follow the lead of retailers like Amazon and Target—and the entire state of New Jersey—who are doing something about it."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 30, 2020)

Interesting story, another case of Law Enforcement being idiots.  I also hope this bank teller gets sued into oblivion:  A Kentucky Family of 7 Didn't Practice Social Distancing. Now Child Services Is Investigating the Parents for Abuse.

ETA: As my girlfriend explains to me (she is a family law attorney for the state), once a tip is called in, the train leaves the station and has to go through its statutory process.  But, after reading the article she also states (based on the limited details) that the case would get closed pretty rapidly.


----------



## DA SWO (Apr 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interesting story, another case of Law Enforcement being idiots.  I also hope this bank teller gets sued into oblivion:  A Kentucky Family of 7 Didn't Practice Social Distancing. Now Child Services Is Investigating the Parents for Abuse.
> 
> ETA: As my girlfriend explains to me (she is a family law attorney for the state), once a tip is called in, the train leaves the station and has to go through its statutory process.  But, after reading the article she also states (based on the limited details) that the case would get closed pretty rapidly.


I'd switch banks as quickly as I could.


----------



## Marine0311 (Apr 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> *Retailers, Please Don’t Let People Return the Stuff They Hoarded*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still am having trouble finding toilet paper.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 30, 2020)

The Five SOF Truths of Coronavirus (according to Black Rifle Coffee Company's "Coffee or Die" journal)

"On their official website, the Special Operations Command (SOCOM) lists five fundamental truths that underpin the ethos of all Special Operations Forces (SOF). The list includes truisms such as “humans are more important than hardware,” “quality is more important than quantity, and “most SOF operations require non-SOF assistance.” These guidelines have shaped the recruitment, training, and employment of our country’s most elite fighting forces.   

As our nation and the world reacts to a global pandemic, it might be useful to apply the five SOF Truths to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and see what lessons we might draw from the SOF community."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 30, 2020)

Michigan protests are continuing.  Armed protesters demonstrate inside Michigan state capitol

I would like to point out that private citizens bearing arms in the Michigan statehouse is apparently legal.  But I highly doubt they're getting through security with ammunition.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 1, 2020)

As if Bootcamp was not already pain-in-the-ass enough....


----------



## Kaldak (May 1, 2020)

Well, none of us older Marines can any longer claim we had worse conditions.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 1, 2020)

So check this out, go get some sun y'all!

COVID-19 Deaths Are Being Linked to Vitamin D Deficiency. Here's What That Means

Newsom closed the beaches, he's an idiot.

California cities threaten legal action against Newsom's newest beach-closure order


----------



## Marauder06 (May 1, 2020)

*HOW THE CORONAVIRUS IS IMPACTING NATIONAL SECURITY*

The COVID-19 pandemic is an international event that will define 2020 and likely an entire generation around the world. At the time of publication, the “novel coronavirus” has infected over 2.8 million people, and killed over 200,000. The implications of this virus are far reaching, extending well beyond the medical sphere and into the economy, diplomacy, and national security of the United States.

If you’ve been watching the news, you’ve likely heard many politicians and pundits talking about the need for a “whole of government” or “full power of the government” approach to resolving the COVID-19, or coronavirus, pandemic. But what does that mean for us as individuals?


----------



## BloodStripe (May 1, 2020)

Romney Proposal Calls For Up To $5,760 In Hazard Pay Bonuses For Essential Workers

Ummm wat? The extra $600 for unemployment us already a joke and something we can't afford.


----------



## AWP (May 1, 2020)

NM's governor just locked down an entire city (though population-wise it is smaller than Bagram during the 2011 surge).

All roads into Gallup, New Mexico, are closing over "uninhibited" COVID-19 spread

And then there's this bit of awesome.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph



> China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.
> The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China.
> 
> It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.
> ...


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 1, 2020)

AWP said:


> NM's governor just locked down an entire city (though population-wise it is smaller than Bagram during the 2011 surge).
> 
> All roads into Gallup, New Mexico, are closing over "uninhibited" COVID-19 spread



I've over here wondering why there are flights from New York to Miami arriving full of passengers daily...the one place that needed to have roads cut in America never had it happen.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 2, 2020)




----------



## CQB (May 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> NM's governor just locked down an entire city (though population-wise it is smaller than Bagram during the 2011 surge).
> 
> All roads into Gallup, New Mexico, are closing over "uninhibited" COVID-19 spread
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting, there’s a lot to cover in both articles. As Oz & our kiwi cousins have it under control with strict measures, the mayors of Gallup are doing the right thing. 
The Daily Telegraph article is IMO generally correct though splodges facts together. I read the Tele for light relief usually as there’s better more accurate sources. The writer contradicts a couple of times regarding the source; lab/not lab. 
I do sincerely hope that the pace picks up for a transparent review internationally, but without the PRC I can’t see it a being accurate.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 3, 2020)

People are getting restless.  Anyone extending stay at home orders without a clear path forward is going to have problem (Newsom).  

Mobile Phone Data Show More Americans Are Leaving Their Homes, Despite Orders

One month of no work is bad, we're closing in on two months. As a percentage of the work force there are more people unemployed now than during the height of the Great Depression. I have a hard time with anyone who thinks this is a lesser problem than the virus. I get that the virus can be deadly to some, but so is starvation and I know many businesses that are done and people will struggle to feed their families in the Summer.

Also,beef prices are surging.  LIVESTOCK-U.S. cattle, hog futures climb as wholesale meat prices rise


----------



## Florida173 (May 3, 2020)

Will be interesting to see any fallout if the provisional death counts end up being dramatically different than the daily count including "probably cases." The disparity now is about half as more and more death certificates come in.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm


----------



## Marauder06 (May 3, 2020)

*Fort Hood COVID Cases Exceed STD Infections for the First Time Ever, Concerning Health Officials*

Article 107 News... comin' straight atcha with the hard news stories you crave ;)

Be careful out there, folks...



> "This is the first time since 1776 that an infection has taken more Soldiers out of formation than The Clap."



*link*


----------



## Cookie_ (May 3, 2020)

So I may be a bit biased because I live here, but I've been pretty happy with how Gov Polis has handled the lockdown/re-opening of Colorado. Some other states (IE Michigan) would do well to mirror these actions.

Loosen state restrictions, continue to monitor, and allow municipalities the freedom the maintain lockdowns if needed.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 3, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256947713649840130






Really Mark? Track and Trace?  How about you hire them?


----------



## oneleggedhumper (May 3, 2020)

after 18 long months in korea, finally got the OK to PCS. Thanks china.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 3, 2020)

You don't say...

DHS report: China hid virus' severity to hoard supplies

Meanwhile in California:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1257098023529635842
ETA: There have been no confederate flags in Michigan from any of the videos I've seen, I've seen a lot of them.  Whitmer is doing nothing to dig herself out of the hole she has dug.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256962780504231938
The photos here are great.  When Californians are getting restless, that's bad.

ETA2: Protests mark growing unrest with California stay-home order

Huntington Beach deployed their mounted police unit for the protests.

Police on hand as ‘patriotic protests’ multiply after California governor re-closes Orange County beaches


----------



## Salt USMC (May 4, 2020)

Well shit, this doesn’t look good.  Government estimates are that we’ll hit 3k deaths per day in June before this thing peaks

Coronavirus Live Updates: Daily Death Toll Will Nearly Double by June, Trump Administration Models Predict


----------



## Florida173 (May 4, 2020)

I'm curious to how the death toll would increase on the back side of the flattened curve. Stupid pay wall. Maybe in the article?


----------



## Cookie_ (May 4, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I'm curious to how the death toll would increase on the back side of the flattened curve. Stupid pay wall. Maybe in the article?



I still had a free article, here ya go. I copy/pasted off my phone, so it may be slightly janky.



> The projections, based on government modeling pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases a day currently.
> The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, significant risks remain. And reopening the economy will make matters worse.
> “There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 4, 2020)

French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December

This thing was floating all over the place pretty early. Looking at our anti-body testing data we're talking tens of millions of infections here. 

Remember...flattening the curve was never about stimying the virus but about maneuvering so as not to stress our hospital capacity. So the IHME folks who've been "wrong" the whole time are saying "don't lift the stay at home orders, there will be a surge". Will there? How? If you keep everyone cooped up for much longer we will have other and bigger problems. You need to weight that vs a Viral respiratory infection that is now here to stay. In many ways this is just like the flu (viral infection). 

Also #fuckchina


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 4, 2020)

No jokes from me here....just profound sadness that the world really is this fucked up and those ‘in charge’ really do act like the villains they are portrayed  as in the movies and books.

Third Russian coronavirus doctor plummets from hospital window under hazy circumstances, reports say — Fox News

”_That’s how it is sometimes. The world is shit_.”
- Fauda


----------



## Blizzard (May 4, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> No jokes from me here.
> 
> Third Russian coronavirus doctor plummets from hospital window under hazy circumstances, reports say — Fox News


It's so absurd.  No one's going to call them on this, just like to is going to do shit about China.  So, why do they even put on the façade anymore?


----------



## Florida173 (May 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Remember...flattening the curve was never about stimying the virus but about maneuvering so as not to stress our hospital capacity.



I keep bringing that up to people, but they have moved the goal post. It's now to wait for a vaccine or something... i dunno.. the FEMA/HHS COP isn't saying anything new and the IHME model is still garbage.. my state has gone even more retarded. 

LIVE: Northam expected to outline plans for reopening Virginia as COVID-19 deaths near 700


> That means if one person is tested three-times and all three tests come back positive, it counts as three instead of how the numbers were being counted before, which would have only been one because it was a single patient.


----------



## AWP (May 4, 2020)

Why in the hell is anyone paying attention to the models? ANY of them? They've been proven time and time again to be bullshit and yet we continue to hang our hopes and fears on "the models" as if those garbage numbers will save us. We're reading tea leaves, but with math and scientists instead of a pseudo-gypsy circus sideshow with cards or a magic eight ball. These dumb ass models belong in the dot thread and should be taken as seriously as a new member who will die before he quits in his quest to be a Tier 1 operator.

How can y'all sit there with straight faces and make arguments around CV-19 projections?


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> Why in the hell is anyone paying attention to the models? ANY of them? They've been proven time and time again to be bullshit and yet we continue to hang our hopes and fears on "the models" as if those garbage numbers will save us. We're reading tea leaves, but with math and scientists instead of a pseudo-gypsy circus sideshow with cards or a magic eight ball. These dumb ass models belong in the dot thread and should be taken as seriously as a new member who will die before he quits in his quest to be a Tier 1 operator.
> 
> How can y'all sit there with straight faces and make arguments around CV-19 projections?


That was good.


----------



## GOTWA (May 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> Why in the hell is anyone paying attention to the models? ANY of them? They've been proven time and time again to be bullshit and yet we continue to hang our hopes and fears on "the models" as if those garbage numbers will save us. We're reading tea leaves, but with math and scientists instead of a pseudo-gypsy circus sideshow with cards or a magic eight ball. These dumb ass models belong in the dot thread and should be taken as seriously as a new member who will die before he quits in his quest to be a Tier 1 operator.
> 
> How can y'all sit there with straight faces and make arguments around CV-19 projections?



Hard agree.


----------



## Polar Bear (May 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> Why in the hell is anyone paying attention to the models?


Do you have any idea how my teenage years revolved around women bra models? Sears catalog was the best


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 5, 2020)

Ooh Rah’s Covid Observation of the day....

The owners and employees of hair & nail salons; along with barber shops, are trained, tested, and certified by the State in the areas of cleanliness and sanitation.  Yet they remain closed after a month plus of shutdown.

Liquor stores remain open.  They are staffed mostly by employees who, to be kind, are untrained in the skill sets of cleanliness and sanitation.

Boating, fishing, and gathering on Minnesota lakes are permitted, but overnight camping in the BWCA is not?

Follow the money.

My patience with the unfairness of this Governors’ opinions on what should be considered ‘essential’ is wearing thin.


----------



## Blizzard (May 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ooh Rah’s Covid Observation of the day....
> 
> The owners and employees of hair & nail salons; along with barber shops, are trained, tested, and certified by the State in the areas of cleanliness and sanitation.  Yet they remain closed after a month plus of shutdown.
> 
> ...


That's been my issue all along.  There is no consistency or logical approach as to how the Gov. has determined what is essential.

Starbucks, essential? In all seriousness? Not even close.   Yet, they've remained open from day one.

I can now get my dog groomed but I can't get my own hair cut.

Golf? Sure, no problem.

Everyone is still going to the grocery store, Target, Home Depot, etc. on a weekly basis.  Home Depot was PACKED this weekend.

There are so many loopholes that the "stay at home" order isn't really all that effective.  As an unintended consequence, and as a result of poor planning and execution, the only thing this order is doing is singling out and harming small businesses.

So, for this reason, I fall into the open it up camp.

What frustrates me most is that I'm not hearing any plans, guidance, or ideas about how to protect the high risk populations, like those in congregate assisted-care facilities.  That should absolutely be at the forefront of every discussion, beginning a month and a half ago.  That solution should've been on the critical path to opening things back up from day one.


----------



## GOTWA (May 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ooh Rah’s Covid Observation of the day....
> 
> The owners and employees of hair & nail salons; along with barber shops, are trained, tested, and certified by the State in the areas of cleanliness and sanitation.  Yet they remain closed after a month plus of shutdown.
> 
> ...



Coming home from this deployment is going to be one of the strangest things I've ever done. Everything I've read in the news, the governors' responses, the further divide...I just don't know. I'm worried about what life looks like when things get back to "normal". The amount of control people allow others to have over them because of fear is mind blowing. We're watching Canada set an example that I'm sure others are chomping at the bit to follow. It feels like it's just the start.


----------



## Devildoc (May 5, 2020)

My institution went rogue around mid-April, using in-house data crunchers.  Our 'peak' and 'wave' and estimates have been FAR more accurate than what the media has been putting out.  We stopped looking at what Los Federales was putting out.

I understand why 'they' are modelling.  We need the models.  It's part of public health.  BUT... if 'they' are putting out models, 'they' also need to explain their methodology and reasoning.

Same logic extends to our Very Esteemed Elected Officials who seemingly throw out dates with no rhyme or reason:  if you are going to close parks, but keep Chuck-E-Cheese open, tell me why.  If this county has a must-mask order and stay-at-home order until the end of May, but the next county over, their order expire tomorrow, tell me why.

@Ooh-Rah , our local liquor stores, they have for-real cops standing at the door enforcing a one-in/one-out rule so the number inside remains at 10.  The people behind the registers are shielded by plastic, they make you scan your bottle, make you scan your card, make you get the receipt, and make you bag your own booze.  They do nothing except 'ring it up' after you scan the bottle.


----------



## Grunt (May 5, 2020)

The sheep have become *genuinely scared* now and have given up all their rights to the government who is taking care of them now and telling them how they should live.

I don't think the nation will fully recover from this event. People have shown how easily they will give up their rights based on the governments opinion. We -- as a nation -- have given up a lot of rights in a very short time. 

We now have people ratting each other out over sneezing, coughing, or families having picnics in empty parks with no one around them. We are ripe for the government to do what they want now that they have seen how easy it would be.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @Ooh-Rah , our local liquor stores, they have for-real cops standing at the door enforcing a one-in/one-out rule so the number inside remains at 10. The people behind the registers are shielded by plastic, they make you scan your bottle, make you scan your card, make you get the receipt, and make you bag your own booze. They do nothing except 'ring it up' after you scan the bottle


That is the exact opposite of what is happening in Minnesota, yet “the people” love this governor.

Every time he has a press conference he uses the same three indoctrination phrases, I get literal douche chills every time I hear him saying this:

“we are trying to protect you”

“We wear masks partially to show solidarity and support for each other “

“You as Minnesotans have shown...blah...blah...blah”


----------



## GOTWA (May 5, 2020)

Grunt said:


> The sheep have become *genuinely scared* now and have given up all their rights to the government who is taking care of them now and telling them how they should live.
> 
> I don't think the nation will fully recover from this event. People have shown how easily they will give up their rights based on the governments opinion. We -- as a nation -- have given up a lot of rights in a very short time.
> 
> We now have people ratting each other out over sneezing, coughing, or families having picnics in empty parks with no one around them. We are ripe for the government to do what they want now that they have seen how easy it would be.



That's what worries me the most going into this next election. I feel like there are far more people that side with the left than the right. And it's funny because the government isn't "helping" them. So they gave out a $1200 stimulus, what does that even get you? My rent in California is $2450/mo not including utilities. $1200 is a slap in the face if anything. Stick people in their homes for 2 months and only give them a 15 day salary. Would have rather seen that money go to the banks to cover mortgages or car payments for people or delivered in food stamps to prevent frivolous spending when people are actually struggling to survive.


----------



## Blizzard (May 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @Ooh-Rah , our local liquor stores, they have for-real cops standing at the door enforcing a one-in/one-out rule so the number inside remains at 10.  The people behind the registers are shielded by plastic, they make you scan your bottle, make you scan your card, make you get the receipt, and make you bag your own booze.  They do nothing except 'ring it up' after you scan the bottle.


Or there's the insanely stupid, 10 (insert your number here) customer limit inside the store at any one time policy.  So, what does everyone else do? Form a huge fucking line right outside the door.

There are also the companies, like Menards (regional home improvement store, similar to Home Depot) who now require you to wear a mask in their store and if you don't have one, sell you one for $1.  This is all within their rights as a private business but fuck them. It'd be something altogether different if they provided masks at no charge or donated the profits from mask sales to the purchase of PPE for healthcare workers or something but that's not the case.  Keep in mind, Menards is a company who was found to be price gouging on things like toilet paper right as things started heating up.  Want my continued business? Don't operate like a douche.

It's all so asinine.

And as you also pointed out, the rules vary even further from county to county and city to city.  Want to play tennis? Not in this city but OK over there.  SMH.


----------



## 0699 (May 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I understand why 'they' are modelling.  We need the models.  It's part of public health.  BUT... if 'they' are putting out models, 'they' also need to explain their methodology and reasoning.


"If it saves one life, it was worth it".

There you go; that's their reasoning.


----------



## Florida173 (May 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> What frustrates me most is that I'm not hearing any plans, guidance, or ideas about how to protect the high risk populations, like those in congregate assisted-care facilities. That should absolutely be at the forefront of every discussion, beginning a month and a half ago. That solution should've been on the critical path to opening things back up from day one.



It's not news that the most at risk just happen to be the most congregated in assisted living. The time for plans has passed and it seems all that much more evident that the problem is taking care of itself. Who's to blame on this one?


----------



## CQB (May 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ooh Rah’s Covid Observation of the day....
> 
> The owners and employees of hair & nail salons; along with barber shops, are trained, tested, and certified by the State in the areas of cleanliness and sanitation.  Yet they remain closed after a month plus of shutdown.
> 
> ...


That’s a pretty valid point. Our hairdressers stayed open.


----------



## CQB (May 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> My institution went rogue around mid-April, using in-house data crunchers.  Our 'peak' and 'wave' and estimates have been FAR more accurate than what the media has been putting out.  We stopped looking at what Los Federales was putting out.
> 
> I understand why 'they' are modelling.  We need the models.  It's part of public health.  BUT... if 'they' are putting out models, 'they' also need to explain their methodology and reasoning.
> 
> ...


thats a Sensible line to take. All our state & territory responses have been individual, according to circumstances & they have been given a free hand to do so.


----------



## Devildoc (May 5, 2020)

A good friend of mine, on faculty at Duke, is the expert quoted:

Data on when, how fast to reopen NC 'a mixed bag,' Duke expert says :: WRAL.com


----------



## Blizzard (May 5, 2020)

Listening to an interview today with Gen Colin Powell, reminded me of his leadership primers (there were 18).  These have changed/evolved slightly over the years  into his 13 rules of leadership, but a couple which seem pertinent to today's environment (meanings below were written in terms of business leadership but I think we can translate to leadership in general):

*"Don't be buffaloed by experts and elites.  Experts often possess more data than judgment.  Elites can become so inbred that they produce hemophiliacs who bleed to death as soon as they are nicked by the real world."*
Meaning:
Small companies and start-ups don't have the time for analytically detached experts.  They don't have the money to subsidize lofty elites, either...  ...Policies that emanate from ivory towers often have an adverse impact on the people out in the field who are fighting the wars or bringing in the revenues.  Real leaders are vigilant, and combative, in the face of these trends.

*"Don't be afraid to challenge the pros, even in their own backyard."*
Meaning:
Learn from the pros, observe them, seek them out as mentors and partners.  But remember that even the pros may have leveled out in terms of their learning and skills.  Sometimes even the pros can become complacent and lazy.  Leadership does not emerge from blind obedience to anyone.  Xerox's Barry Rand was right on target when he warned his people that if you have a yes-man working for you, one of you is redundant.  Good leadership encourages everyone's evolution.

The two points above really speak to the need for critical thinking.  There is not a lot of evidence of this occurring in today's environment.  Many seem to be lost in group think and that's a dangerous space to live in.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 5, 2020)

Scientists Who Didn't Predict A Single Thing Accurately For Last Two Months Confident They Know What The Weather Is Going To Be Like In 100 Years

It's only funny because it's TRUE!


> WORLD—Authorities in the scientific community who touted faulty COVID-19 models are "pretty confident" they know what the weather is going to be like in 100 years, sources confirmed Wednesday.



 I love the weather channel but they are scientists and they are wrong alot.  They have accurate models and almost 100 years of data that helps them make educated forecasts, but they are still wrong.

How much data do we have on COVID?  4-6 months, if that.  This is no longer an educated forecast but a hunch or  guess much like going to see the Seer on Vikings.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 6, 2020)

The deep state is striking again according to this lady.


----------



## Devildoc (May 6, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Scientists Who Didn't Predict A Single Thing Accurately For Last Two Months Confident They Know What The Weather Is Going To Be Like In 100 Years
> 
> It's only funny because it's TRUE!
> 
> ...



I know that's satire, but I had a real convo about that.  Someone was arguing about COVID, models, and weather forecasting.  I put it like this:

Every year we have hurricanes in the Atlantic.  Every year, and we have since there's been an Atlantic Ocean.  We know where and how they start, how they travel, how they grow.  So, we know the science behind them.  That's part 1.  Part 2, where do they go?  Once they form, experts put out tracks based on probabilities given history, air temp, water temp, and a couple hundred other variables.  The computers run the models with all of these, over and over looking for repeatability.  Now, when hurricanes start as a low pressure system near the Canary Islands, people want to know, will it be a Cat 5 with an eye that moves over my town, in western Virginia.  Probably not.  We don't even know if it's going to become a Cat 1 or even hit the US at all.  But as it moves and grows we get more and more data, the 'cone of certainty' narrows, and a couple hours before landfall, we know pretty well what's going to happen.

With COVID, there's a LOT we do not know, and we are learning more every day.  What if we never, ever had a hurricane, and now we had a hundred in the Atlantic?  Already behind the curve.  We don't know how to forecast, because it's so new.  Not only can't we tell you where they are going, we can't tell you what the damage will be if they hit.  Since we've never seen one we do not know that they can grow/weaken/disappear, we do not know what makes them better or worse, we do not know anything.  So every one of those hurricanes gives a little insight, a little glimpse, and we learn a little more.  After looking at all 100, especially retrospectively, we have a lot of data, so now we can start understanding what we are dealing with.

Next May, when we see a low pressure system off the Canary Islands, we'll have an "a ha!" moment, look at our data, and start building a model that should be more accurate than the ones we built this year on brand new information.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 6, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I know that's satire, but I had a real convo about that.  Someone was arguing about COVID, models, and weather forecasting.  I put it like this:
> 
> Every year we have hurricanes in the Atlantic.  Every year, and we have since there's been an Atlantic Ocean.  We know where and how they start, how they travel, how they grow.  So, we know the science behind them.  That's part 1.  Part 2, where do they go?  Once they form, experts put out tracks based on probabilities given history, air temp, water temp, and a couple hundred other variables.  The computers run the models with all of these, over and over looking for repeatability.  Now, when hurricanes start as a low pressure system near the Canary Islands, people want to know, will it be a Cat 5 with an eye that moves over my town, in western Virginia.  Probably not.  We don't even know if it's going to become a Cat 1 or even hit the US at all.  But as it moves and grows we get more and more data, the 'cone of certainty' narrows, and a couple hours before landfall, we know pretty well what's going to happen.
> 
> ...



Agree 100% because that is literally what I said.  Re-read what I said Doc.  I gave Science an out because they don't have computer models or years of data to help them objectively produce a forecast.


----------



## Devildoc (May 6, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Agree 100% because that is literally what I said.  Re-read what I said Doc.  I gave Science an out because they don't have computer models or years of data to help them objectively produce a forecast.



Oh, I know, I was just pointing out that was a literal conversation I had.  A LOT of us feel the same way.  It's nuts.  But it's a great analogy.


----------



## BloodStripe (May 6, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> The deep state is striking again according to this lady.



Video had over a million views in less than one day and YouTube has now deleted it multiple times. Grab your tin foil.


----------



## Florida173 (May 6, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Video had over a million views in less than one day and YouTube has now deleted it multiple times. Grab your tin foil.



Here's the vimeo and original site if you are interested. It's on youtube in a few other places, but will likely get taken down. Some people posted it on Facebook and they have all been removed.

https://plandemicmovie.com/


----------



## Salt USMC (May 6, 2020)

What’s the central thesis of the video?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 6, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> What’s the central thesis of the video?


Oh for fucks sake.  Someone convince me why this should not be In the “dot” thread. 

PlanDemic: Banned by YouTube, rescued by The Schilling Show | The Schilling Show Blog


----------



## Florida173 (May 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh for fucks sake.  Someone convince me why this should not be In the “dot” thread.
> 
> PlanDemic: Banned by YouTube, rescued by The Schilling Show | The Schilling Show Blog



No idea, maybe you have something to say why it does?


----------



## Salt USMC (May 6, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh for fucks sake.  Someone convince me why this should not be In the “dot” thread.
> 
> PlanDemic: Banned by YouTube, rescued by The Schilling Show | The Schilling Show Blog


All I needed to know.  Thanks


----------



## Cookie_ (May 6, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> What’s the central thesis of the video?



Something something globalists something something scientist who was fired for falsifying data in 2009(?) changed her story about what she was studying once she lost her job something something vaccines have viruses that cause autism and cancer something something the ocean has healing microbes and standing on sand cures disease something something.....



> ABOUT THE FILM Humanity is imprisoned by a killer pandemic. People are being arrested for surfing in the ocean and meditating in nature. Nations are collapsing. Hungry citizens are rioting for food. The media has generated so much confusion and fear that people are begging for salvation in a syringe. Billionaire patent owners are pushing for globally mandated vaccines. Anyone who refuses to be injected with experimental poisons will be prohibited from travel, education and work. No, this is not a synopsis for a new horror movie. This is our current reality.
> 
> Let’s back up to address how we got here…
> 
> ...


----------



## Florida173 (May 6, 2020)

Wonder what the validity of this is...

Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military



> As the Defense Department negotiates its way through the coronavirus pandemic and its fallout, military entrance processing stations are working with new guidance when it comes to bringing COVID-19 survivors into the services.
> 
> A past COVID-19 diagnosis is a no-go for processing, according to a recently released MEPCOM memo circulating on Twitter.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 6, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Wonder what the validity of this is...
> 
> Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military


In theory, COVID-19 is a respiratory infection that adversely affects the lungs.  Kind of like Asthma is a disqualifier.

Some stuff.


----------



## Blizzard (May 6, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Wonder what the validity of this is...
> 
> Coronavirus survivors banned from joining the military


"Coronavirus survivors"? ..."survivors?  What the fuck?  That's what they're being referred to as?  That's not a term I'd apply here.


----------



## Kaldak (May 6, 2020)

We still don't know if those who RECOVERED from Covid-19 can still be reinfected or not. Survivors is an ambiguous term in this instance.


----------



## Florida173 (May 6, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> We still don't know if those who RECOVERED from Covid-19 can still be reinfected or not. Survivors is an ambiguous term in this instance.



I thought as of this week, you can't. We can see next week if it changes


----------



## Kaldak (May 6, 2020)

I understand it is still unclear, as we don't have a full view of who recovered without symptoms. So, first infection or second?


----------



## SpitfireV (May 6, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> "Coronavirus survivors"? ..."survivors?  What the fuck?  That's what they're being referred to as?  That's not a term I'd apply here.



What's wrong with it? We survive lots of things each day. Colds, flues, putting the bins out, the tongue lashing for not putting the bins out early enough...


----------



## AWP (May 6, 2020)

Anyone with a negative life event is now a "survivor" just like everyone in uniform is a "warrior."

That means every husband is a survivor.


----------



## Blizzard (May 6, 2020)

AWP said:


> Anyone with a negative life event is now a "survivor" just like everyone in uniform is a "warrior."
> 
> That means every husband is a survivor.


And we're all pretty much "heroes"....maybe even superheroes!


----------



## RackMaster (May 7, 2020)

So that makes all of superhero survivors of being warriors.  lol


----------



## Florida173 (May 7, 2020)

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus Patent



> An outbreak of a virulent respiratory virus, now known as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), was identified in Hong Kong, China and a growing number of countries around the world in 2003. The invention relates to nucleic acids and proteins from the SARS coronavirus. These nucleic acids and proteins can be used in the preparation and manufacture of vaccine formulations, diagnostic reagents, kits, etc. The invention also provides methods for treating SARS by administering small molecule antiviral compounds, as well as methods of identifying potent small molecules for the treatment of SARS.



Didn't realize how much Novartis owns


----------



## Blizzard (May 7, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So that makes all of superhero survivors of being warriors.  lol


Don't let anyone ever tell you that you'll never be anything.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 7, 2020)

AWP said:


> Anyone with a negative life event is now a "survivor" just like everyone in uniform is a "warrior."
> 
> That means every husband is a survivor.


And every divorcee an escaped POW.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 7, 2020)

*China’s President Blames COVID-19 On “Two White Guys with MAGA Hats”*

“I was alone, walking back from the Wuhan wet market at two in the morning,” Xi said, “when I suddenly encountered two giant American rednecks wearing racist red MAGA hats. They bit the heads off of two live bats, poured barbecue sauce all over me, put a Winnie the Pooh hat on my head, and yelled “This is MAGA Country!” And that’s how COVID-19 started.” 

**


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 7, 2020)

Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks

MSN link for those that don't want to break thru the NYT paywall: Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks

Subways are still rolling and flights to Florida still unloading New Yorkers.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 7, 2020)

For a little bit of levity, here's FNC's Pete Hegseth having a very normal one

"Go out and get infected by Coronavirus"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258430817598046210
And here's a video of him last year saying that he A) doesn't believe in germs, and B) probably hasn't washed his hands in 10 years

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1094741186483548160
Very cool.  Very normal


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 7, 2020)

Good:


----------



## RackMaster (May 8, 2020)

In case you see this "Plandemic" propaganda floating around. 

Why It’s Important To Push Back On ‘Plandemic’—And How To Do It


----------



## Florida173 (May 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> In case you see this "Plandemic" propaganda floating around.
> 
> Why It’s Important To Push Back On ‘Plandemic’—And How To Do It



plot twist.. everything is propaganda; very much including the Forbes article


----------



## GOTWA (May 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> plot twist.. everything is propaganda; very much including the Forbes article



I thought it was ironic how fake news was explaining how to spot itself.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> plot twist.. everything is propaganda; very much including the Forbes article


All propaganda is not created equal.

Fortunately, the nice folks of Reddit have done a minute-by-minute refutation of Plandemic.  It’s a doozy!


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Moronavirus/comments/geokm9


----------



## Florida173 (May 8, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> All propaganda is not created equal.
> 
> Fortunately, the nice folks of Reddit have done a minute-by-minute refutation of Plandemic.  It’s a doozy!
> 
> ...



Definitely not, and you could just as well pass a link to 4chan or 8chan for either side of the debate.


----------



## RackMaster (May 8, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Definitely not, and you could just as well pass a link to 4chan or 8chan for either side of the debate.



Here's another one, then.  Judy Mikovits is a quack of the highest quality quackery. 

Debunking 'Plandemic'


----------



## Florida173 (May 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Here's another one, then.  Judy Mikovits is a quack of the highest quality quackery.
> 
> Debunking 'Plandemic'



My apologies. I think you misinterpreted my responses as me needing more evidence to debunk the plandemic premise. People will find whatever their "truth" is and I liken this documentary to something akin to Loose Change. People will believe what they want. Some of the immediate debunking responses came from a dumpster fire worth of commentary through Vegas plastic surgeon/comedian/youtube personality and a pill mill hormone treatment doctor. That didn't help the case for it and we are like day three or something into the whole thing. 

There seems to be a lot of people that dislike Fauci and this video is what they were needing to give them more credibility. If everything in that video is 100% false, it would be amazing..  I generally go back to this graphic when considering what's happening


----------



## BloodStripe (May 8, 2020)

Study: Patients Low In Vitamin D Twice As Likely To Develop Severe COVID-19 Symptoms - Study Finds

This seems like common sense. Sheltering in place doesn't mean staying in doors.


----------



## GOTWA (May 8, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Study: Patients Low In Vitamin D Twice As Likely To Develop Severe COVID-19 Symptoms - Study Finds
> 
> This seems like common sense. Sheltering in place doesn't mean staying in doors.


It's my opinion that stay at home means exactly that to a lot of people. When you look at places like Los Angeles and NY, a simple backyard to hang out in is largely unavailable.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 8, 2020)

If the cops are gonna be stupid...I guess people will waste their time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258830658186567680




BloodStripe said:


> Study: Patients Low In Vitamin D Twice As Likely To Develop Severe COVID-19 Symptoms - Study Finds
> 
> This seems like common sense. Sheltering in place doesn't mean staying in doors.


I saw that.  We've been pushing a lot of bad recommendations based on political affiliation.  Fauci puts out guidance that says exercise supports immune health.  Gov Doug Ducey encourages people to get outside and enjoy the state parks, then the democratic mayor of phoenix seeths and froths and has city trails closed down.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 9, 2020)

lol

*Low Texas COVID Rate Credited to High Rate of Gun Ownership: “Texans Know How to Protect Themselves,” Says Governor*

**


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 9, 2020)

Here's a study on susceptibility:

Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold



> *Abstract*
> As severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) spreads, the susceptible subpopulation is depleted causing the rate at which new cases occur to decline. Variation in individual susceptibility or exposure to infection exacerbates this effect. Individuals that are frailer, and therefore more susceptible or more exposed, have higher probabilities of being infected, depleting the susceptible subpopulation of those who are at higher risk of infection, and thus intensifying the deceleration in occurrence of new cases. Eventually, susceptible numbers become low enough to prevent epidemic growth or, in other words, herd immunity is attained. Although estimates vary, it is currently believed that herd immunity to SARS-CoV-2 requires 60-70% of the population to be immune. Here we show that variation in susceptibility or exposure to infection can reduce these estimates. Achieving accurate estimates of heterogeneity for SARS-CoV-2 is therefore of paramount importance in controlling the COVID-19 pandemic.



Study hasn't been peer reviewed yet.


----------



## Devildoc (May 9, 2020)

My neighbor, a French fellow, is a fencing coach at Duke.  His grandparents died, in France, of COVID. He is leaving tomorrow to go to France, has to settle the estate and take care of his grandparents' house.

He said they both were healthy, they came down with a respiratory illness, and both were dead within 4 days. They had gone to the hospital and the hospital turned them away and said there wasn't any room, and they would send help out to the house.  He said by the time help came to the house, (I would imagine home health, I am not sure), that they were "too far gone".


----------



## Cookie_ (May 9, 2020)

A paramedic drove 1,800 miles to help fight coronavirus. Sunday, a funeral procession carried him home.

I don't know how I missed this until now. I met Paul twice last year when he came to assist as a patient/evaluator during a scenarios class I was taking for my EMT program. 

Dude was like a walking textbook when it came to questions about trauma or psych calls, and we could tell he loved helping out teaching us how to be good EMS personnel.

Sad to hear about his death.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 9, 2020)

Elon is not playing games: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259162367285317633


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 9, 2020)

Stay classy TSA! 👍

Whistleblower: TSA hoarded 1.4 million masks, despite plea to donate to health care workers

The Transportation Security Administration has hoarded more than 1.4 million N95 protective masks its employees do not need, and agency officials have refused to send them to health care workers clamoring for the critical gear, according to a whistleblower complaint filed by a TSA lawyer.

Charles Kielkopf, TSA general counsel for Minnesota and three other states, said in an interview Friday he felt compelled to file the complaint in response to “incredible hubris of power over common sense” from agency leadership. TSA screeners have only been instructed to wear surgical masks, and Kielkopf said very few have chosen to wear the optional and less comfortable N95 respirator masks.


----------



## Grunt (May 9, 2020)

Fear can reveal one's true character. In this case, the TSA has shown themselves to the world.


----------



## SpitfireV (May 9, 2020)

I've read a few articles where federal departments have seized masks and things. Maybe they should have just asked the TSA.


----------



## CQB (May 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Oh for fucks sake.  Someone convince me why this should not be In the “dot” thread.
> 
> PlanDemic: Banned by YouTube, rescued by The Schilling Show | The Schilling Show Blog


Jared Kushner? That’s interesting.


----------



## Board and Seize (May 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Elon is not playing games:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1259162367285317633



Yes Elon, bring it all _just_ across to border to Verdi/Reno, yes.  Mwuhahaha, my joint plan with the Spirit stores (to create the rona) is working!


----------



## Devildoc (May 10, 2020)

A little update from my post before regarding my neighbor, this morning our doorbell was ringing at 8:00 a.m. That never, ever happens. He and his wife had been trying to get a Lyft, Uber, taxi, anyone, to take them to the airport about 30 minutes away, and no one was available or they could not get an answer.

So I emptied my kids trash out of the minivan and loaded them up, got more of the story on the way to the airport. It's his wife's grandparents, they both got sick at almost the same time, they went to the hospital, there is no room at the local hospital, they're told to go home and wait for medical professionals to come out. By the time they did, they were very very sick, they tried to get them admitted to the local hospital but could not, and they died at home.

Her grandfather basically bought a small village, a few small houses, a small farm, and a couple other buildings, in the Alps of France in the early 20th century. It has stayed in the family the entire time with various family members moving in and out of that little village.

Her family has been there the entire time, her grandparents have never left. They still have family there, and they have a little "chateau" for when they go back to visit.  

Our neighbor was so appreciative of our help with watching his house over the next couple months while they're gone, he said that if we ever wanted to go over there we could stay in one of the chateau's for free, they have skiing equipment, climbing equipment, and have access to some of the best skiing in the French Alps.  I do not ski, and I have not seriously climbed and probably 15 years, but I think my wife and I might try to make it for our 25th anniversary in 5 years, just the two of us.


----------



## CQB (May 10, 2020)

It’s nice your help was appreciated. Still bad in France.


----------



## Board and Seize (May 11, 2020)

Came across this video after a story about a barber opening up in MI despite the Governor's orders.

Does anyone on the board know ASL?  The translator looks like she's savagely mocking the Governor, and I don't know if she just has a goofy face or is signing mad shit.


----------



## RackMaster (May 11, 2020)

Majority of death's here are long term care. 

Ontario confirms 74 percent of coronavirus deaths are in long-term care homes


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 12, 2020)

Ohio anti-body testing confirms cases in January.  

Antibody testing reveals COVID-19 has been in Ohio since January, health officials say


----------



## Florida173 (May 12, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (May 12, 2020)

So...Stay At Home orders in LA until August?  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260275851804864512
Don't see that happening.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 13, 2020)

Hugh Jashol, at it again.


*Army Study: “Not Even COVID-19 Likes Fort Bragg”* 



> FORT BRAGG, NC — Fort Bragg, North Carolina has the lowest incidence of COVID-19 in any comparable-sized area in the entire world, stunning health officials around the globe. Known as a veritable cesspit where morals and military careers go to die, Fort Bragg was the last place anyone expected to hear health-related good news."


----------



## Steve1839 (May 13, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Hugh Jashol, at it again.
> 
> 
> *Army Study: “Not Even COVID-19 Likes Fort Bragg”*


Calling Bragg a cesspit is being rather generous...


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 13, 2020)

So Greta Thunberg is also a COVID-19 Expert...

Greta Thunberg added to CNN’s expert coronavirus panel, Twitter erupts

ETA:  Wisconsin Stay-At-Home Order struck down

Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down Tony Evers' stay-at-home order that closed businesses, schools to limit spread of coronavirus


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 13, 2020)

Now this is crazy...no wonder the NYPD Police Union has just been getting after it with their messaging. 

NYC health head rejected NYPD mask plea: ‘I don’t give two rats’ asses about your cops’

Man, NY is a trashy place.

Nursing Homes Are Hot Spots in the Crisis. But Don’t Try Suing Them.


----------



## AWP (May 13, 2020)

The longer this goes on the more people will show their true colors.


----------



## Kaldak (May 14, 2020)

And do dumb stuff.


----------



## Dame (May 14, 2020)

Yeehaw! Finally!
Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down governor’s stay-at-home order


----------



## RackMaster (May 14, 2020)

Thing's are starting to open up here.  

Phase 1 of Ontario's reopening to allow all construction, most retail, individual sports


----------



## Kaldak (May 14, 2020)

Dame said:


> Yeehaw! Finally!
> Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down governor’s stay-at-home order



Doesn't really matter. Most counties immediately enacted their own "safer-at-home" orders. So, nothing has changed.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 14, 2020)

I'm going to throw it out there:

Folding@home update on SARS-CoV-2 (10 Mar 2020) – Folding@home

If you're posting on this thread, you should be running Folding@home on your computer.

Start folding – Folding@home


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 14, 2020)

Good ole invincibility juice.....


----------



## Dame (May 14, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Doesn't really matter. Most counties immediately enacted their own "safer-at-home" orders. So, nothing has changed.


I'm just happy there is now a court ruling to use as a legal precedent. Starts the ball rolling.
Incidentally, this cracked me up.


----------



## digrar (May 14, 2020)

I should get home on the 26th. That will be 9 weeks away. I was thinking it might be a week away, but more likely 3 - 6 months, with half a days notice to pack a bag and cross the border, so 9 weeks is a bit of a bonus. Looking forward to getting home though. 
We've got a State government exemption to cross the border, it's the client that has been keeping us from getting home. They're going to shorten our breaks by 48 hours, and we'll have to get tested upon leaving the incoming aircraft, go into iso for the 48 hours or until the sample comes back clear. They're saying 24 hour turn around on testing.


----------



## CQB (May 15, 2020)

So the meeting should go well then. 

Australia is not the only country asking questions about the origins of coronavirus, and China is not happy | Peter Jennings


----------



## CQB (May 15, 2020)

digrar said:


> I should get home on the 26th. That will be 9 weeks away. I was thinking it might be a week away, but more likely 3 - 6 months, with half a days notice to pack a bag and cross the border, so 9 weeks is a bit of a bonus. Looking forward to getting home though.
> We've got a State government exemption to cross the border, it's the client that has been keeping us from getting home. They're going to shorten our breaks by 48 hours, and we'll have to get tested upon leaving the incoming aircraft, go into iso for the 48 hours or until the sample comes back clear. They're saying 24 hour turn around on testing.


Fuck mate, that’s erm, fucked. To shorten breaks by the same margin as iso...
Just hope you get out at the 24 hour mark.


----------



## digrar (May 15, 2020)

We're on a two and two roster, so it will be 11 days home, travelling back on day 12 and the 48 hour iso while we wait for the test results. It beats sitting in an airbnb in Adelaide for the 14 day break and hopefully we only have to a couple of cycles before they relax the controls again.


----------



## CQB (May 15, 2020)

Yeh, Adelaide...🤨


----------



## RackMaster (May 15, 2020)

Thing's are going well when your political leaders are sharing cheesecake recipes.  

Ontario Premier Doug Ford reveals his 'famous' cherry cheesecake recipe


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Thing's are going well when your political leaders are sharing cheesecake recipes.
> 
> Ontario Premier Doug Ford reveals his 'famous' cherry cheesecake recipe


Meanwhile, Nero fiddled.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 15, 2020)

To quote one of my favorite comedians, it might be time to wrap it up.


*COVID-19: We Have to Get on with Life*



> Like sharks, our species has to keep moving forward to survive. Sitting on our collective hands waiting for a vaccine could be a long wait. There isn’t a vaccine or cure for SARS or MERS, both coronaviruses. And these were identified in 2003 and 2013 respectively. There is treatment, but no cure or vaccine. So what do we do? We move forward knowing the risks.


**


----------



## RackMaster (May 15, 2020)

This was bound to happen and 5 cases isn't bad. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-soldiers-nursing-homes-1.5571607


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 15, 2020)

So, Washington is starting to see it had cases in December.  

2 Washington cases of 'COVID-19-like illness' in December raise questions about when disease arrived in US


----------



## Florida173 (May 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, Washington is starting to see it had cases in December.
> 
> 2 Washington cases of 'COVID-19-like illness' in December raise questions about when disease arrived in US




Does it though? I mean, if you watch what bluedot did for analysis, it seems like it's obvious it would be here during that time frame.

The computer algorithm that was among the first to detect the coronavirus outbreak


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 15, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Does it though? I mean, if you watch what bluedot did for analysis, it seems like it's obvious it would be here during that time frame.
> 
> The computer algorithm that was among the first to detect the coronavirus outbreak



I've posted previously that this virus likely hit our shores in November.  And if that's the case, what the heck did we just do to ourselves?


----------



## Steve1839 (May 15, 2020)

I used to work in Cortez near this park...the itinerate drunks were known as "park rangers"...this one apparently embalmed himself, but it gave the state health department a chance to inflate the numbers.  New COVID-19 Death Dispute: Colorado Coroner Says State Mischaracterized Death


----------



## RackMaster (May 15, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Does it though? I mean, if you watch what bluedot did for analysis, it seems like it's obvious it would be here during that time frame.
> 
> The computer algorithm that was among the first to detect the coronavirus outbreak



What pisses me off is that's a Canadian company and our government ignored the signs until our PM's wife got sick.


----------



## Blizzard (May 15, 2020)

I'm still not 100% convinced we're even identifying and capturing cases correctly. Some of the serious outlier cases I've seen reported that don't fit the more common profile has me wondering if they could  actually be something different, yet are still being attributed to COVID-19.

There certainly could be and probably are issues with the reporting quality of diagnoses as well.  Never have so many eyes been on a specific diagnosis that stepping back and looking at diagnosis reporting may be prudent.


----------



## AWP (May 16, 2020)

Daily I'm talking with my wife about her thoughts and feelings throughout this mess, plus her conversations with friends.,All but one of them are slightly left of center on social issues, but right of center on foreign relations, 2A, economic topics, etc. They started out, like many of us, with some worry. As this dragged on and the unrelenting sky-is-falling media coverage shit, it left them with fear, aprehension, and eventual depression. 

In the last two weeks that has become acceptance, anger, and even a bit of rebellion. They've gone from "flatten the curve" to "open up this muthafucker" and move forward with life. Continue to protect the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, but stop destroying our country socially and economically.

How much longer does this continue before more and more find themselves with this thought process?


----------



## GOTWA (May 16, 2020)

AWP said:


> Daily I'm talking with my wife about her thoughts and feelings throughout this mess, plus her conversations with friends.,All but one of them are slightly left of center on social issues, but right of center on foreign relations, 2A, economic topics, etc. They started out, like many of us, with some worry. As this dragged on and the unrelenting sky-is-falling media coverage shit, it left them with fear, aprehension, and eventual depression.
> 
> In the last two weeks that has become acceptance, anger, and even a bit of rebellion. They've gone from "flatten the curve" to "open up this muthafucker" and move forward with life. Continue to protect the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, but stop destroying our country socially and economically.
> 
> How much longer does this continue before more and more find themselves with this thought process?



I feel like that's the case as well. Been talking to my friends in CA. They're about over it too. 

Side note, my work colleague's wife went to pick up her mother's death certificate last week or so. He said she's had cancer for quite a while. His wife said they asked if they could put the COD as covid related. I've seen news articles floating around that state hospitals get fed money for treating covid patients.


----------



## AWP (May 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Side note, my work colleague's wife went to pick up her mother's death certificate last week or so. He said she's had cancer for quite a while. His wife said they asked if they could put the COD as covid related. I've seen news articles floating around that state hospitals get fed money for treating covid patients.



Going back to my rant/ take on models...can we trust the numbers? We have a member here who has said COVID-related deaths at his hospital are  underreported and then your anecdote about a hospital reaching to make the connection. I don't doubt either one of you, but it makes me doubt the numbers, the damn models that have driven some of the policies and decisions. If you can't trust the message, how can you trust the decisions and solutions?


----------



## digrar (May 16, 2020)

You can trust the excess death numbers. And they're huge in some locations.


----------



## GOTWA (May 16, 2020)

AWP said:


> Going back to my rant/ take on models...can we trust the numbers? We have a member here who has said COVID-related deaths at his hospital are  underreported and then your anecdote about a hospital reaching to make the connection. I don't doubt either one of you, but it makes me doubt the numbers, the damn models that have driven some of the policies and decisions. If you can't trust the message, how can you trust the decisions and solutions?



I feel like the numbers are extremely inflated in the US. We have no idea how many people have actually had it and that skews the entire modeling system which decisions are derived from. The recovery rate is just unknown. We'll certainly never gain herd immunity hiding from life.

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf
This shows the number of NY nursing home deaths due to confirmed and presumed cases. I'm not sure if there's a correlation of numbers to the areas they're in, but when you look at places like Albany and Erie, and then compare them to Kings, you can't tell me you don't get suspicious.


----------



## AWP (May 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf
> This shows the number of NY nursing home deaths due to confirmed and presumed cases. I'm not sure if there's a correlation of numbers to the areas they're in, but when you look at places like Albany and Erie, and then compare them to Kings, you can't tell me you don't get suspicious.



I'm dumb, so I added up those numbers. 2938 confirmed and presumed in nursing home and 2695 in adult care facilities giving us 5633 confirmed and presumed fatalities in NH and ACF. That means roughly 20% of NY state's fatalities are from these facilities. 

Then you look at Albany and Monroe counties with similar pop. densities. Monroe's population is 3x that of Albany's, yet Monroe's # of fatalities doesn't even double that of Albany's and we've been told over and over that population density is driving the infection/fatality rate.

List of counties in New York - Wikipedia

3 counties with zero deaths and 11 counties with 10 or less. I can buy into some of those numbers, but 22.5% of the counties in NY state have 10 or fewer deaths?

I don't trust the numbers which means I don't trust the models and much of our response was predicated on the models. None of this accounts for people who had it and never knew or those who had it and/or died before we knew this was a thing. There are people who are far, far smarter than me on a lot of things and I have zero doubts some of the world's best minds are working on this problem, but can anyone here tell me their numbers can be trusted? If we can't trust the data, we can't trust the response. This isn't "just the flu" but is it "wreck the planet?"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## SaintKP (May 16, 2020)

All we know is that we don't know


----------



## GOTWA (May 16, 2020)

AWP said:


> I'm dumb, so I added up those numbers. 2938 confirmed and presumed in nursing home and 2695 in adult care facilities giving us 5633 confirmed and presumed fatalities in NH and ACF. That means roughly 20% of NY state's fatalities are from these facilities.
> 
> Then you look at Albany and Monroe counties with similar pop. densities. Monroe's population is 3x that of Albany's, yet Monroe's # of fatalities doesn't even double that of Albany's and we've been told over and over that population density is driving the infection/fatality rate.
> 
> ...



I don't buy the number of presumed covid related deaths. Using Albany as a baseline, they are either under reporting or just very responsible by ruling out things they cannot confirm. Other counties don't appear to be doing that. At what point do you just say we've done what we can, now it's time to save livelihoods? Sorry, but in economics, human life does have a price and it's used everyday in healthcare, of all things. Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

You'd think politicians would care this much about the 500k smoking deaths each year in the US, but we're worried about this? I'm sorry, but if corona catches those 16 million people with a smoking caused disease, it's not corona that killed them, it's poor choices. Moral disengagement would consider that to be something like...slow suicide.
Fast Facts


If Harry Stamper was in charge, he'd throw the models out, use his gut, and just keep drilling. #hero #rememberharry


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 16, 2020)

When we look at NY, this isn't me getting mad or political.  Cuomo has "blood on his hands".  Under his policies, he forced nursing homes to take in infected patients.  So you had nursing homes that had ZERO cases out there end up with 25% of their patients dead.  Nursing homes aren't hospitals, they're not built for isolation and triage.

Then you add to the fact that they were late as hell with implementing any social distancing policies, if I look at the timelines they had a massive outbreak before anything was done across the state or in the city.  The Subway was kept open and the outbreak continued.

Then let's add the narratives that the media are jumping into to just play gotcha on the President or a governor.  For example Texas had a spike in positive cases, but when you examine the numbers themselves, as a percentage of total tests done their positive rate continues to decline.  So of course we'll see a spike in some areas as we begin "testing everyone".  Our capacity is at almost 400k tests administered per day.


----------



## Grunt (May 16, 2020)

All I know for a fact about COVID-19 is that it is now a political weapon. I no longer believe anything about it and am tired of seeing *my* nation look and live like a herd of sheep being controlled by its many masters.


----------



## Cookie_ (May 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm sorry, but if corona catches those 16 million people with a smoking caused disease, it's not corona that killed them, it's poor choices.



Except those 16 million people would have been living until they caught the corona; almost like it played a large factor in why they died. A cause of death with related factors, if you will.


----------



## Blizzard (May 16, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> *COVID-19: We Have to Get on with Life*
> 
> There isn’t a vaccine or cure for SARS or MERS, both coronaviruses. And these were identified in 2003 and 2013 respectively. There is treatment, but no cure or vaccine. So what do we do? We move forward knowing the risks.


A very underrated point! 👍

Our response to COVID-19 and the precedent it has set is now a serious concern.

What "next thing" will come along that drives a response that is "in the public's best interest"?

What other "problems" could be solved by a similar response?

As @Grunt stated earlier, it's become a political weapon.  That's not to suggest the virus isn't serious, it is, but there are a lot of serious things "in the wild".


----------



## DA SWO (May 16, 2020)

15% of the county's counties had 50% of the cases.
All the mitigation measures were based on the urban populations, and not developed for rural areas.
Likewise, most cases can be traced back to NYC.


----------



## Blizzard (May 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> 15% of the county's counties had 50% of the cases.
> All the mitigation measures were based on the urban populations, and not developed for rural areas.
> Likewise, most cases can be traced back to NYC.


The bigger issue I have with all this is after 2+ months, there is still no detailed plan at the federal, state, or local level to protect at risk populations.  It's not even a talking point. This is day 1, week 1 shit.  

Remember, the shut downs were primarily sold as a response to allow hospitals to staff up and stock up for the inevitable hoards that would overwhelm them.  Instead, we're talking about which businesses can open and which can't.  It's all tantamount to arranging the flowers out front while the house is on fire.


----------



## DA SWO (May 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The bigger issue I have with all this is after 2+ months, there is still no detailed plan at the federal, state, or local level to protect at risk populations.  It's not even a talking point. This is day 1, week 1 shit.
> 
> Remember, the shut downs were primarily sold as a response to allow hospitals to staff up and stock up for the inevitable hoards that would overwhelm them.  Instead, we're talking about which businesses can open and which can't.  It's all tantamount to arranging the flowers out front while the house is on fire.


My mother in law is high risk, she keeps herself quarantined.  Didn't need the government to tell her. 
NY, aka: the government, wiped out nursing homes by putting positives into nursing homes.
Are you sure government is the answer?


----------



## Blizzard (May 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Are you sure government is the answer?


I don't need to answer this, right? 😁

I'm certain the government isn't the answer, at least not on their own.  However, it can play a role in gathering quality, standardized data that can help inform.  They also have a space in ensuring accountability for those that do require assisted care as well.


----------



## Devildoc (May 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't need to answer this, right? 😁
> 
> I'm certain the government isn't the answer, at least not on their own.  However, it can play a role in gathering quality, standardized data that can help inform.  They also have a space in ensuring accountability for those that do require assisted care as well.



Along with WHO, the CDC has lost some credibility.  HHS still has some (credibility) but when is it going to be seen as another WHO?  Right now most people will tell .gov to piss up a rope with trying to ensure accountability.  They have lost the public's trust.

Our organization told the state and feds to piss off and started making its' own models, with which we've had a much better accuracy (since its limited to our area and institution only).

Right now the line "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a very cold comfort.


----------



## Blizzard (May 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Along with WHO, the CDC has lost some credibility.  HHS still has some (credibility) but when is it going to be seen as another WHO?  Right now most people will tell .gov to piss up a rope with trying to ensure accountability.  They have lost the public's trust.
> 
> Our organization told the state and feds to piss off and started making its' own models, with which we've had a much better accuracy (since its limited to our area and institution only).
> 
> Right now the line "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a very cold comfort.


Agree, wholeheartedly.

However, a key problem is one of standardization.  When each state/municipality has it's own set of coding rules and regulations, it makes overall evaluation of things very difficult and costly.  It's one of the contributors to high healthcare costs.


----------



## Devildoc (May 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Agree, wholeheartedly.
> 
> However, a key problem is one of standardization.  When each state/municipality has it's own set of coding rules and regulations, it makes overall evaluation of things very difficult and costly.  It's one of the contributors to high healthcare costs.



Oh, I know it.  

COVID-specific are the municipality, county, and state restrictions, often all three are different.  The problem is (which I addressed in another post), no one knows who to believe because none of them are explaining why they are mandating what they mandate.  They essentially say, "because I said so, that's why."


----------



## RackMaster (May 16, 2020)

Vaccine going into testing. 

Health Canada approves first clinical trial for potential COVID-19 vaccine


----------



## CQB (May 16, 2020)

Second wave?

Donald Trump says America's coronavirus curve is flattening but a second wave is coming for rural communities - ABC News


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 16, 2020)

They keep telling me about the second wave, why do they keep saying that is a thing.  Let's just be real, we're in the third (or fourth?) wave.  And the rural states that didn't shut down have less issues!


----------



## Grunt (May 16, 2020)

Keep the sheep at bay. Now that *they* have seen how easy it is to use authority that they don't have, they can't seem to give it up. After all, the populace *needs* to be rescued from the boogey man.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 16, 2020)

Love this: Focus on Covid-19, France tells China after Taiwan arms deal threat


----------



## Cookie_ (May 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> They keep telling me about the second wave, why do they keep saying that is a thing.  Let's just be real, *we're in the third (or fourth?) wave*.  And the rural states that didn't shut down have less issues!



Is this an opinion, or do you have something for that?

I know we've seen some possibilities that it was here prior to January; but we can also just simply look and see that even if it was here in December, it wasn't as widespread until late-February/early-March. (I'm just guesstimating with when it started surging officially, but I think it was around these timeframes)


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 16, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Is this an opinion, or do you have something for that?
> 
> I know we've seen some possibilities that it was here prior to January; but we can also just simply look and see that even if it was here in December, it wasn't as widespread until late-February/early-March. (I'm just guesstimating with when it started surging officially, but I think it was around these timeframes)



As @AWP says: the models are all bullshit.

Honestly, none of the "experts" know when this landed.  I've posted articles showing the blood cultures from 2019 being tested in this thread.  In Snohomish county they had at least 2 infections in December.  I've posted (or I think I did) the article of the French doctor testing blood samples from December and they're finding a lot of cases.

Game theory or conspiracy theory, we have no idea when the Chinese patient zero actually was.  This thing could have started last summer and the West finds out about it when they can no longer hide it (just like with SARS).  My gut tells me that we're in the second wave.  Given how many people whom have been confirmed with the virus compared to how many have been tested (and most people can't get access to a test unless they show symptoms).  We've already established a level of herd immunity.  But unlike with SARS we're now stuck with this, or we're not and it just goes away.  

Then we look at the susceptibility study that I've also posted. Exposure =/= infection. Certain populations are more susceptible to infection.
In effect, I don't know, and neither do the "experts".


----------



## Sainthood6 (May 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> If the cops are gonna be stupid...I guess people will waste their time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258830658186567680
> ...


It seems to me ,the way a state or area will go depends solely on your states political party Republicans want to open and move on Democratic party wants to stay shutout till everyone's depending on them ,,, idk ..." just try to watch what your stepping in" I've always thought the best course of action is the one I've decided after sorting out the facts regardless of what I was told,,,


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (May 17, 2020)

I for one would like to see a massive effort to aid those in the susceptible populations with masks, home care, food, etc. and let the rest of the country go on about their business. When they first tested the homeless in Boston area, then the Stanford random population study, then almost ALL the prisoners and staff at Ohio's penitentiaries...ASYMPTOMATIC ALL...then it was time to look at putting the effort towards those over 65 (mostly retired), compromised immune systems (?? maybe 1-5% of the population??). 

We loose 30-40k anually to the flu. As bad as this is, it's not doomsday worthy.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 17, 2020)

Another professor arrested: 




Former Cleveland Clinic Employee Arrested — FBI


----------



## SpitfireV (May 17, 2020)

Ok so what's the covid connection?


----------



## RackMaster (May 17, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Ok so what's the covid connection?


----------



## Dame (May 17, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Ok so what's the covid connection?


The guy was stealing medical research information and passing it to China. He was on a grant from the NIH (my tax dollars) and sending info to the Chinese government for more money. The information had to do with a vaccine.


----------



## SpitfireV (May 17, 2020)

The FBI haven't said that though?


----------



## Sainthood6 (May 17, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
> 
> Inside the Chinese lab poised to study world's most dangerous pathogens
> 
> View attachment 31707


Why have high security virus research lab if theres strange new things magically evolving in your wet markets. And speaking of wet markets how humane is that.. All I'm saying that spectrum of society is at one end genetic modifications and wet markets on the other all covered in lies.. Idk makes me throw flags in every direction....


----------



## Dame (May 18, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> The FBI haven't said that though?


They disclosed the charges for which he was arrested. The motives of the Chinese government for their program to embed multiple stooges within academia in this and other Western nations isn't within their warrant process. This is just another straw on the camel's back for what will become a multinational backlash when it breaks. To assume this has nothing to do with the Chinese virus research at the center of this nonsense is simply too far a bridge for most of us to cross.


----------



## RackMaster (May 18, 2020)

@SpitfireV I get you are connected to China but no one is attacking the Chinese people.  If you can't admit that there is some serious problems with the CCP, then maybe you need to rethink some of your positions.

If the CCP have nothing to hide, they why be so defensive that you are willing to attack those seeking the truth to prevent another pandemic? 

China promises revenge on Australia as 122 countries join calls for coronavirus inquiry


----------



## AWP (May 18, 2020)

It's your day off and you've been drinking for 6 hours, but have an opinion...
(fuck, now what)

OFF TO FACEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Steve1839 (May 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> It's your day off and you've been drinking for 6 hours, but have an opinion...
> (fuck, now what)
> 
> OFF TO FACEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That's your Monday rant...?   tsk, tsk, tsk...


----------



## digrar (May 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> China promises revenge on Australia as 122 countries join calls for coronavirus inquiry



Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.


----------



## Dame (May 18, 2020)

digrar said:


> Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.


Fuckers indeed. 
Hopefully the truth will set those tariffs free.


----------



## Dame (May 18, 2020)

On another note: Yeehaw!
Oregon's coronavirus restrictions ruled 'null and void' after governor failed to get approval from legislature


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 18, 2020)

digrar said:


> Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.


Time to start making Single Malts en masse.


----------



## DA SWO (May 18, 2020)

digrar said:


> Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.


China is getting it's barley from who now???
Tariffs will last 90 days, and then fade away.
China is an importer, not exporter of food.  Your government needs to aggressively look for new customers, or buy it and donate it to countries in need.  Tell China your crops are obligated for the next two years when they come crawling back.
Keeping your mouths shut just lets China get awa y with mass murder.  Shame on you.


----------



## digrar (May 18, 2020)

There are other buyers, but you can't turn them on like a teenager, you need to work them up a bit. Prices will take a hit this season, unfortunately at this stage, it was looking like a good one, there is a bit of rain about and yields will probably be up.


----------



## Dame (May 18, 2020)

digrar said:


> There are other buyers, but you can't turn them on like a teenager, you need to work them up a bit.


Fucking gold. 

(Might be time to put the bourbon down and head to bed.)


----------



## CQB (May 19, 2020)

digrar said:


> Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.


It looks like one of those tricks you keep in your back pocket, saving it for a rainy day & rolling it out when needed. They use the barley to make Tsing Dao beer, so now without our barley it will taste even worse. On the plus side, they’ve rolled with the WHO inquiry SCOMO kicked off. Let the push back begin.


----------



## AWP (May 19, 2020)

Florida might be cooking the books for its numbers.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242773056.html

Woman who designed Florida's COVID-19 dashboard has been removed from her position


> TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (CBS12) — As Florida starts to reopen, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard, announced she'd been removed from her position, Florida Today reported.
> 
> Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was "not voluntary" and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."



The email she sent:


> Hey all –
> 
> I’ve gotten a lot of emails from everyone during the last eight days ever since the dashboard went down, the data was hidden, and the functionality essentially crashed, so to clear up the confusion, I’m sending this final notice to the group.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> Florida might be cooking the books for its numbers.
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242773056.html
> 
> ...


_As a word of caution, I would not expect the new team to continue the same level of accessibility and transparency that I made central to the process during the first two months. 

After all, my commitment to both is largely (arguably entirely) the reason I am no longer managing it._

<mic drop>


----------



## RackMaster (May 19, 2020)

Up to 14 CAF personnel infected and another 43 in isolation due to exposure.

14 CAF members assisting long-term care homes diagnosed with COVID-19: source


----------



## DA SWO (May 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> Florida might be cooking the books for its numbers.
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242773056.html
> 
> ...


Everyone is cooking the books.
Testing is up, so the numbers are going to go up.


----------



## Blizzard (May 19, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Everyone is cooking the books.
> Testing is up, so the numbers are going to go up.


I find it frustrating that the government and media continue to lead reports with this virtually meaningless running total of cases.  That's just as disingenuous.

What matters in terms of management and how we move forward is the number of active cases at a given day and how that compares against the level of current  hospitalizations and deaths.  That's a significantly better measure of impact and effectiveness.  But, of course, in doing so one can't produce a graph with a steep, exponentially increasing line of doom.


----------



## AWP (May 19, 2020)

Thank God we can trust the models!


----------



## Salt USMC (May 19, 2020)

We’re going to clear 100,000 deaths by the end of the week.  Can we safely say that the model is “Shit’s fucked”?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 19, 2020)

digrar said:


> Fuckers just hit us with an 80% barley tariff. They have been talking this trade tariff over for 18 months, and it is a total stitch up, they're going against the evidence. It certainly feels like this wouldn't have occurred if we'd kept our mouths shut.





digrar said:


> There are other buyers, but you can't turn them on like a teenager, you need to work them up a bit. Prices will take a hit this season, unfortunately at this stage, it was looking like a good one, there is a bit of rain about and yields will probably be up.


There has to be something you guys can do with your excess barley. Like at @DA SWO said China will come crawling back to you, make them pay a premium for making you sit on that grain. Or... you can repurposed that barley into something you guys can use nationally like @ThunderHorse said. Might be able to create new industries that benefit you guys as a nation instead of those commies.

Also, be weary if you see upticks in grain buys from Chicom affiliated or 3rd party countries. That'll be the Chicoms trying to skirt their rules to screw over your farmers. The need for that barley is still gonna be there; so expect those Chicom fucks to skirt those rules, via third parties, to fill their needs. The CCP likes to make bullshit rules, but they sure as shit don't play by them.

China needs the world and they'll happily slit your throat to get at your resources. Fuck em.


----------



## Blizzard (May 19, 2020)

We'd better get busy dying because the model 2 weeks ago had deaths doubling by end of the month...

This, despite the fact that daily hospitalization and death figures remain virtually flat.  To add to this, in MN 80% of deaths continue to occur with populations located in assisted care facilities.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 19, 2020)

Chinese province back in lockdown as new coronavirus cases surface


The crazy thing about all this shit is we will never actually know how many Chinese have died from this thing.


----------



## RackMaster (May 19, 2020)

At least it shows consistency. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...494ad4-947f-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html


----------



## Marauder06 (May 20, 2020)

It's for the troops!  ;)


*Defense Department Designates Strippers, Pawn Shops, Used Car Dealers “Essential Personnel”*




> FORT BRAGG, NC — In a move that really surprised no one, the Department of Defense has added strippers, pawn shops, and used car dealers to the list of professional services deemed “essential,” to which troops will be able to have unfettered access, even in states where restrictive “shelter in place” measures exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



* *


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 20, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> It's for the troops!  ;)
> 
> 
> *Defense Department Designates Strippers, Pawn Shops, Used Car Dealers “Essential Personnel”*
> ...


Well someone has to keep the economy going!


----------



## Grunt (May 20, 2020)

I find it ironic that a group of failed elected politicians who can't pass a good legitimate budget or run our country can dictate to me -- or us -- what or who is deemed "Essential." Hahahaha....those people are nuts....


----------



## Muppet (May 20, 2020)

For the COVID-19 Gestapo 911 callers.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 21, 2020)

Today I received an invite from a very good friend in regards to staying at their cabin this weekend.

I accepted. Moments later I received this.

_We will have some rules. You are not allowed to touch anything in the kitchen area (sink, fridge, micro, etc).

You have exclusive use of the bsmt BR and bathroom. There will be hand sanitizer at the front & back doors and we will all use it whrn going thru those doors. Masks must be worn by everyone inside if we are sharing the same small space.

No mask req'd outside so long as 6' distance is maintained. I think we can manage it in a way that we can be safe and still enjoy being here._

I sent a note back and politely declined the invite letting them know I would look forward to seeing them when they felt more comfortable having guests in their lakehome.


----------



## digrar (May 21, 2020)

Spot on response.


----------



## medicchick (May 21, 2020)

We have a rule here that if you've been outside you have to wash your hands, but that's about it. We all have masks (coworker made them for us) but I've only worn my once at the request of the customer...fair enough, they were elderly. I only ask people to use common sense around me.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 21, 2020)

Long story short, life has fucking risk. If you're healthy, you can hang. If you''re a fucking plague rat, stay the fuck home.


----------



## Muppet (May 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today I received an invite from a very good friend in regards to staying at their cabin this weekend.
> 
> I accepted. Moments later I received this.
> 
> ...



Your response was better than mine would have been.

Sorry, I'll have to decline. Blow me with your "rules".


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 21, 2020)

As restaurants re-open in Minnesota, it was announced yesterday that reservations were required.

Odd?  Well this was done so that the Govt has a papertrail record of who ate there and when for tracking purposes.  I'd like to introduce myself, Bob Berditzmen.  Good to meet you!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 21, 2020)

Doctors on the Theodore Roosevelt Feared Dozens Would Die in Coronavirus Outbreak



Spoiler: WSJ Story



WASHINGTON—Four doctors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt warned in a memo to Navy medical officials in March that dozens of sailors would die of Covid-19 if the entire aircraft carrier weren’t evacuated within 10 days, mirroring the urgency voiced at the same time by its commander.

“The only solution to save the lives of sailors is to immediately get everyone off the ship into appropriate isolation or quarantine,” the March 30 memo said, according to a copy of the document reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. “There is no other option.”

The medical team’s warning, the details of which haven’t previously been reported, indicated that there was a “high probability” that up to 1% of the roughly 4,800-member crew—or “50 or more” sailors—could die, and that hundreds of sailors would fall ill. The limited medical facilities on Guam, where the ship by then had docked to offload sailors sickened with Covid-19, would soon be overwhelmed, the doctors wrote.

“We will not stand by while our fellow sailors continue to be exposed to this fatal virus,” the memo said. “The time has come for aggressive measures to be taken and we are asking for your help.”

The memo, sent to the Navy’s surgeon general and a group of other naval medical personnel, ended with a threat to go public with their concerns if Navy officials didn’t move faster to fix the problem.

The medical team’s memo adds a new wrinkle to an episode that has deeply affected the Navy, resulting in the removal of the ship’s commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, for writing and distributing his own memo about the outbreak, and the resignation days later of the man who fired him, acting Navy Secretary Tom Modly, all while hundreds of sailors became ill.

Navy officials have said they were moving to address the outbreak and send aid to the vessel. But the doctors’ concerns as portrayed in the memo show that Capt. Crozier wasn’t alone in thinking that the Navy needed to act faster to help the ship and its crew.

A report from a continuing investigation, expected to be released in the next week, will address issues surrounding the outbreak, the firing of Capt. Crozier, and what the Navy did or didn’t do as the Roosevelt’s crew faced the crisis. That investigation is also examining senior naval officers serving above Capt. Crozier in the chain of command, officials said.

On Wednesday, the aircraft carrier left Guam after docking there for nearly two months because of the Covid-19 outbreak. On board were about 3,300 of its crew members, defense officials said. Some remained behind in Guam because of health issues related to the disease, with many staying ashore because the ship’s cramped living quarters prevent proper social distancing.

In the past week, at least 14 crew members who had reboarded the ship in preparation for its departure from Guam tested positive for the virus, Navy officials said. Navy officials declined to disclose the destination of the ship, whose home port is San Diego.

The views expressed in the one-page medical memo, summing up an air of urgency aboard the carrier at the onset of the outbreak, in part prompted Capt. Crozier to write his own memo, sent to senior Navy leaders about the same time. Capt. Crozier’s memo became the subject of news reports, leading to his removal. The warning that 50 sailors could die was reported by the New York Times in April.

The medical team’s memo, signed by the ship’s chief medical officer and three other doctors aboard the ship—a general practitioner and two surgeons—plus a physical therapist, was sent to the Navy surgeon general and other naval personnel on March 30.

During the time both the ship’s commander and his medical officers were writing their respective memos, the Navy was making preparations on Guam to offload the crew, Navy officials have said. That included reopening restaurants and hotels that had been shuttered due to coronavirus and finding transportation to get the crew off the ship and to accommodations where they could quarantine. Military medical personnel had been flown from Okinawa, Japan, to help assist the crew.

Rear Adm. Bruce Gillingham, the Navy surgeon general to whom the doctors’ memo was addressed, replied the same day in an attempt to assure the doctors that the Navy was trying to accommodate the sailors, officials said, and urged them to remain within the chain of command and not release the letter to the public.

The Navy declined to comment about the memo, citing its continuing investigation.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty April 2 after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead. Photo: Zuma Press (Originally published April 3, 2020)
Crew members have said that fears about an outbreak erupted after the carrier completed a five-day port call in Vietnam in early March, although officials have said the virus may have been brought on board by air crews.

After the memo written by Capt. Crozier became the subject of media reports, Mr. Modly, then the acting Navy secretary, fired Capt. Crozier, saying he had lost trust and confidence in the captain.

Mr. Modly resigned just days later, following a backlash over his address to aircraft-carrier crew members over the ship’s public-address system. The White House then replaced Mr. Modly with James McPherson, the Army’s undersecretary. While an initial Navy investigation recommended that Capt. Crozier be reinstated, Mr. McPherson ordered the subsequent investigation now under way.

In all, 1,178 sailors across the Navy currently are infected with the virus, according to the latest Navy statistics. They are among 2,298 sailors who have contracted coronavirus in recent months. More than half of the Navy’s cases originated on USS Theodore Roosevelt.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> As restaurants re-open in Minnesota, it was announced yesterday that reservations were required.
> 
> Odd?  Well this was done so that the Govt has a papertrail record of who ate there and when for tracking purposes.  I'd like to introduce myself, Bob Berditzmen.  Good to meet you!


I have to make reservations for the pool...


----------



## Blizzard (May 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Doctors on the Theodore Roosevelt Feared Dozens Would Die in Coronavirus Outbreak
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is that the article can be missing fundamental info, such as this:  In the end, one sailor died and 3 were hospitalized?!


----------



## Blizzard (May 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> As restaurants re-open in Minnesota, it was announced yesterday that reservations were required.
> 
> Odd?  Well this was done so that the Govt has a papertrail record of who ate there and when for tracking purposes.  I'd like to introduce myself, Bob Berditzmen.  Good to meet you!


The whole thing has become so asinine.

Minnesota's Models Were Created Over One Weekend Partly By Students

Coronavirus testing error at St. Paul nursing home called 'disaster' by state officials

The decisions about what can be open and what can't along with the "safety" precautions required are so schizophrenic.  The governor has grossly mismanaged and overstepped his authority while the media has played the role of useful idiots.  There is no absolutely no consistency or logic in the approach. Decisions need to be returned to the legislature.


----------



## AWP (May 21, 2020)

Current numbers from the CDC. Quick takes:
- 65 and older is when the fatality rate really jumps
- There are more deaths from pneumonia than CV-19
- CV-19 is far deadlier than the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Death Counts by Sex, Age, and State | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

My hot take: the virus isn't the flu so I don't know why that is still a talking point, and it clearly is bad news, but is it "ruin an entrie planet" bad?


----------



## Marauder06 (May 21, 2020)

*America is Over COVID-19*

"America is over COVID-19. There’s no denying it. And the sooner everyone realizes that, the better.
I don’t mean “over it” in the sense that everything is better now and things are like they were before, because that is clearly not the case. The disease is still spreading, albeit considerably more slowly than predicted, and people are going to continue to die from the Chinese coronavirus and its complications. When I say “over it,” I meant it in the sense of “we played your silly games, now it’s time to move on.”"


----------



## Devildoc (May 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> Current numbers from the CDC. Quick takes:
> - 65 and older is when the fatality rate really jumps
> - There are more deaths from pneumonia than CV-19
> - CV-19 is far deadlier than the flu.
> ...



It's still a talking point because of the "it's just a cold, bro" crowd still insisting it's just a cold.  

Spot on re: CDC hot takes.

I think the big issue we're going to see is a) young people who get it even with minor symptoms _may _have long-term sequelae, and b) we don't know what some long-term sequalae might be.  

There's still so much we don't know, _especially_ with kids and young people.


----------



## Florida173 (May 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> There's still so much we don't know, _especially_ with kids and young people.



I heard that was just propaganda perpetuated by the government as they roll out their 5G towers and all the symptoms of kids can be explained by radiation.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> My hot take: the virus isn't the flu so I don't know why that is still a talking point, and it clearly is bad news, but is it "ruin an entrie planet" bad?


It's a talking point because you catch them the same way and they are similar.  Both are viral respiratory diseases.  You catch coronavirus by breathing in particles from someone whom is infected.




Marauder06 said:


> *America is Over COVID-19*
> 
> "America is over COVID-19. There’s no denying it. And the sooner everyone realizes that, the better.
> I don’t mean “over it” in the sense that everything is better now and things are like they were before, because that is clearly not the case. The disease is still spreading, albeit considerably more slowly than predicted, and people are going to continue to die from the Chinese coronavirus and its complications. When I say “over it,” I meant it in the sense of “we played your silly games, now it’s time to move on.”"
> ...



So I wrote this on a triathlon forum of which I'm a member. Many seem to be left leaning, but apparently just like here the attitudes shift when whomever is President (in a different part of that board) But here is my observation from the weekend:


"The world I live in is the real one. The one that is not full of people on slowtwitch or twitter or even Facebook. For example, this weekend I drove up Beeline Highway to the Bush Highway bridge and then down Bush Highway to Saguaro lake to scout both a long ride route and the beach at Saguaro for OWS (have never swam there). The PEOPLE are done. Every since parking spot was full, the loading zone was full of parked cars. The beach itself? Slammed. Then I drove south again on Bush Highway and and the sides of the highway near the other beach had cars parked all over the sides of the road. Then I continue driving, every spot on the Salt River where there was a rec site or parking was slammed. Salt River Tubing, humming hardcore.

Whether there is a vaccine deployed in the Fall or not, there's multiple strains of this virus and enough people have been infected that we're stuck with this. It's a Viral Respiratory Disease, that means you're talking a vaccine every year like the flu vaccine. And people still don't get the flu vaccine every year. "


----------



## Florida173 (May 21, 2020)

I think people might be realizing that there are moving goal posts. those CDC numbers still don't concern me.

Going back to this canuck to tell me his take on it.


----------



## Blizzard (May 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I think people might be realizing that there are moving goal posts. those CDC numbers still don't concern me.
> 
> Going back to this canuck to tell me his take on it.


👍  While a Canuck, that dude pretty much hit on and sums up my views.  Solid.

Hate to confuse the issue with facts.


----------



## RackMaster (May 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I think people might be realizing that there are moving goal posts. those CDC numbers still don't concern me.
> 
> Going back to this canuck to tell me his take on it.



Haven't heard of that guy before but I'm following him now.   That sums up my frustrations way better and minus an added 10 minutes of expletives that I would have added.


----------



## GOTWA (May 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today I received an invite from a very good friend in regards to staying at their cabin this weekend.
> 
> I accepted. Moments later I received this.
> 
> ...



It's funny, because my grandpa is in his late 70s, maybe early 80s. I dunno, I'm a bad grandchild, but even he's over this. "I'm too old to deal with this shit. Whatever happens happens. I'm going outside."



Ranger Psych said:


> Long story short, life has fucking risk. If you're healthy, you can hang. If you''re a fucking plague rat, stay the fuck home.



I wonder how many pro-choicers are at home advocating for the stay at home to be extended to save even one life...



ThunderHorse said:


> It's a talking point because you catch them the same way and they are similar.  Both are viral respiratory diseases.  You catch coronavirus by breathing in particles from someone whom is infected.
> 
> So I wrote this on a triathlon forum of which I'm a member. Many seem to be left leaning, but apparently just like here the attitudes shift when whomever is President (in a different part of that board) But here is my observation from the weekend:
> 
> ...



I applied for a couple positions in Phx so it's very likely I'll be moving to Peoria in the very near future. Can't wait to get back home.


ETA: Let's talk about contact tracing and what it really means. The simple premise is to identify someone who may have been exposed and to provide them with notification and appropriate knowledge on how to move forward. My question is, how long before states take that to the extreme and force a mandatory quarantine on an individual with severe legal repercussions for violating it? Because at this point, anything is possible. And you know the neighbors are more than willing to report that ass for a quick reward.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 21, 2020)

Man we got some weird shit going on: 
Denver orders closure of USPS facility that handles mail for all of Colorado, Wyoming

And what I was pretty sure would happen is happening, this sucks.

California doctors say they've seen more deaths from suicide than coronavirus since lockdowns


----------



## Kaldak (May 22, 2020)

Can a state close a federal building?


----------



## medicchick (May 22, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Can a state close a federal building?


Pretty sure no especially when it messes with people getting their medications, paychecks...


----------



## GOTWA (May 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Man we got some weird shit going on:
> Denver orders closure of USPS facility that handles mail for all of Colorado, Wyoming
> 
> And what I was pretty sure would happen is happening, this sucks.
> ...



I'm so disappointed with how things are playing out. 



Kaldak said:


> Can a state close a federal building?



I feel like a lot of these orders from governors could be challenged by interstate commerce laws.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 22, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I feel like a lot of these orders from governors could be challenged by interstate commerce laws.



That kind of what I was thinking.  Commerce Clause.


----------



## AWP (May 22, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> That kind of what I was thinking.  Commerce Clause.



Cynically, how many governments could be charged under RICO?


----------



## Steve1839 (May 22, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Can a state close a federal building?


What I heard on the morning news is that the facility is remaining open, told they state they are following all CDC guidelines...

"USPS officials were quick to respond and the facility remained open on Thursday.

“We strongly disagree with the Denver Public Health order, which was made without a visual verification, without advanced coordination with the team of postal employees working on these issues with Denver Public Health, and without the understanding of the Postal Service’s substantial, ongoing efforts to protect its employees and the public,”


----------



## DA SWO (May 22, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Can a state close a federal building?



No, and the 10th Amendment also comes into play.  The State can not close any FEDERAL building or installation.



Marauder06 said:


> That kind of what I was thinking.  Commerce Clause.



Plus a lot of case history.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 22, 2020)

So, this article is mostly about deaths being undercounted...but then there's a whizbang about how deaths are not being counted correctly by some of these Coroners and DOHs.  Washington state’s actual coronavirus death toll may be higher than current tallies, health officials say



> They’ve also identified about 100 deaths that are not linked to a positive case, but “we can’t rule them in or out,” Hutchinson said. About five cases involved COVID-positive people whose *deaths involved gunshot wounds*, she said.
> 
> “Our current dashboard reflects anyone who died, that tested positive for COVID, irrespective of cause of death,” she said.



Let's count people as COVID related deaths, even though they were actually murdered.  WTF is going on here?

ETA: AP count: Over 4,300 virus patients sent to NY nursing homes

So, yeah, that's pretty shit.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 22, 2020)

Didn't know this was going on, but pretty interesting....Indian tribe setting up roadblocks on US and State highways that enter Indian Reservations in South Dakota to protect against Covid-19.


"Earlier this month, Noem threatened to sue the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe and the Oglala Sioux Tribe if they did not remove highway stops within 48 hours. She backed away from that plan last week, offering to negotiate on the issue if they would take them off of U.S. and state highways.

“I know there are questions out there about respecting (tribal) sovereignty,” Noem said Wednesday. But she contends the checkpoints cannot legally be on those highways."

South Dakota gov. takes tribe checkpoint flap to White House


----------



## DA SWO (May 22, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Didn't know this was going on, but pretty interesting....Indian tribe setting up roadblocks on US and State highways that enter Indian Reservations in South Dakota to protect against Covid-19.
> 
> 
> "Earlier this month, Noem threatened to sue the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe and the Oglala Sioux Tribe if they did not remove highway stops within 48 hours. She backed away from that plan last week, offering to negotiate on the issue if they would take them off of U.S. and state highways.
> ...


I believe they can, but SD could set it's own up an essentially lock the tribe down until they decide to negotiate.


----------



## Florida173 (May 22, 2020)

Would blocking a federal highway would be a federal dispute? Tribes should still be subject to federal regulations and laws.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 22, 2020)

Good ol' Minneapolis.  Masks are now 'required' in all public establishments; no longer optional.

Masks will be required indoors in Minneapolis. Mayor Frey signed an order Thursday. St. Paul is thinking about it.

What you need to know about the new mask rules in Minneapolis


----------



## GOTWA (May 22, 2020)

I remember when these democratic governors said Trump thinks he's king.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 22, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Would blocking a federal highway would be a federal dispute? Tribes should still be subject to federal regulations and laws.



so, the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 provided funding for the national highway system....but the highways are owned by the state.


_The *Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways*, commonly known as the *Interstate Highway System*, is a network of controlled-access highways that forms part of the National Highway System in the United States. Construction of the system was authorized by the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956. The system extends throughout the contiguous United States and has routes in Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico.

The U.S. federal government first funded roadways through the Federal Aid Road Act of 1916, and began an effort to construct a national road grid with the passage of the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1921. After Dwight D. Eisenhower became president in 1953, his administration developed a proposal for an interstate highway system, eventually resulting in the passage of the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956. Construction of the Interstate Highway System was proclaimed complete in 1992, though some planned routes were canceled and several routes have stretches that do not fully conform with federal standards. The cost of construction of the Interstate Highway System was approximately $114 billion (equivalent to $521 billion in 2018). The original system has been expanded numerous times through the creation of new designations and the extension of existing designations.

*Though much of their construction was funded by the federal government, Interstate Highways are owned by the state in which they were built.* All Interstates must meet federal standards such as having controlled access, using a minimal number of traffic lights, and complying with federal traffic sign specifications. Interstate Highways use a numbering scheme in which primary Interstates are assigned one- or two-digit numbers and shorter routes are assigned three-digit numbers where the last two digits match the parent route. The Interstate Highway System is partially financed through the Highway Trust Fund, which itself is funded by a federal fuel tax. Though federal legislation initially banned the collection of tolls, some Interstate routes are toll roads._

*BUT...*

_Native American tribal governments are sovereign, self-governing entities.   Much like state governments, tribal governments are responsible for the health, safety and welfare of their citizens and their communities.  Tribal sovereignty pre-dates the formation of the United States and is recognized through the U.S. Constitution and numerous federal statutes and court cases.   Tribal governments are on equal footing with state government and have a government-to-government relationship with federal government.  The sovereignty of each entity necessitates a government-to-government relationship at the state and tribal levels as well.  

States and tribes have adjacent jurisdictions, with some tribes crossing into the boundaries of more than one state.  These bordering jurisdictions are a key reason why state-tribal relationships are necessary.  In addition, services are now provided by tribal government to members and non-members who reside on or near the reservations.  This makes coordination between state and tribal agencies and service providers essential. _

I think this will be a huge complex legal issue.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 22, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> *BUT...*
> 
> _Native American tribal governments are sovereign, self-governing entities.   Much like state governments, tribal governments are responsible for the health, safety and welfare of their citizens and their communities.  Tribal sovereignty pre-dates the formation of the United States and is recognized through the U.S. Constitution and numerous federal statutes and court cases.   Tribal governments are on equal footing with state government and have a government-to-government relationship with federal government.  The sovereignty of each entity necessitates a government-to-government relationship at the state and tribal levels as well.
> 
> ...


Basically in this the Federal government would need to mediate this.  The Tribe has sovereignty over their lands and the state does not.  (That's as simple* as I can make it) 

ETA: to qualify this...It is really fucking complex.


----------



## RackMaster (May 22, 2020)

So mask's are now highly recommended, unless you have an underlying lung condition like asthma or children 2 and under.   Now this shit. 

PM Trudeau: Feds will soon 'strongly' recommend contact tracing app


----------



## Kraut783 (May 22, 2020)

Man...he needs to dye his beard too....looks weird


----------



## Kaldak (May 22, 2020)

Sorry, but to me, contact tracing is another phrase for universal surveillance.


----------



## Marauder06 (May 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So mask's are now highly recommended, unless you have an underlying lung condition like asthma or children 2 and under.   Now this shit.
> 
> PM Trudeau: Feds will soon 'strongly' recommend contact tracing app



-taking away your guns

-"contact tracing"

-keeping your economy closed

Not looking good up north, bro.


----------



## AWP (May 22, 2020)

You remember when we all thought the Patriot Act would prevent another 9/11 and the checks and balances were such that our Constitutional rights would not be violated?

Those were good times.

Remember when we thought the coronavirus restrictions were necessary to protect our citizens and were short term with minimal negative effects?

Those were good times.


----------



## RackMaster (May 23, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> -taking away your guns
> 
> -"contact tracing"
> 
> ...



What worries me more, is the how much the Emperors follower's lap this shit up.  
Add in the mob mentality forming from the mask crowd. Mask's aren't law, just recommend and there's the medical exemptions.  Of course there's those with asthma or COPD, saying "I wear a mask, I feel faint but I still wear it, so everyone should".  I can't wait for these idiots to be mask related casualties.  
Throw in Trudeau's sole focus on getting PPE has been from China.  Almost everything delivered was contaminated or wasn't delivered at all.  So shocked...


----------



## Raksasa Kotor (May 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> You remember when we all thought the Patriot Act would prevent another 9/11 and the checks and balances were such that our Constitutional rights would not be violated?
> 
> Those were good times.
> 
> ...


----------



## CQB (May 23, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So mask's are now highly recommended, unless you have an underlying lung condition like asthma or children 2 and under.   Now this shit.
> 
> PM Trudeau: Feds will soon 'strongly' recommend contact tracing app


We have a contact tracing app here, it’s optional & doesn’t work too well on iPhones.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 23, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Sorry, but to me, contact tracing is another phrase for universal surveillance.


Don't worry, the latest iOS update supports contact tracing apps.



CQB said:


> We have a contact tracing app here, it’s optional & doesn’t work too well on iPhones.



Don't worry, that's about to change.


----------



## GOTWA (May 23, 2020)

Wait until iOS or android alerts the feds when you search "do I have Corona?" in google search.


----------



## AWP (May 23, 2020)




----------



## CQB (May 23, 2020)

As for the mass surveillance issue mentioned earlier, the only difference between us doing it & the PRC is our system of government with its checks & balances. As the Fourth Industrial Revolution continues, surveillance will only increase in capability.


----------



## GOTWA (May 23, 2020)

Checks and balances and mass surveillance don't pair together.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 23, 2020)

CQB said:


> As for the mass surveillance issue mentioned earlier, the only difference between us doing it & the PRC is our system of government with its checks & balances. As the Fourth Industrial Revolution continues, surveillance will only increase in capability.



I don't know if it is WA or Australia in general.  But I think you folks already have mass surveillance.  I went on a run on the river trail in Perth and must have seen 20+ different cameras on it.  In a sense it probably provides safety, but it seemed a bit invasive.


----------



## CQB (May 23, 2020)

We do & look at it each day wondering how we here drove off the cliff. But as there’s no inherent right to privacy, you have to make it yourself. I’d check your federal laws to see how you stand. But don’t kid yourself, if it isn’t in your neighbourhood it soon will be. For example, police cars have for years been mobile computers complete with cameras.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't if it is WA or Australia in general.  But I think you folks already have mass surveillance.  I went on a run on the river trail in Perth and must have seen 20+ different cameras on it.  In a sense it probably provides safety, but it seemed a bit invasive.


It's already here... the majority of our population has access to some sort of smart phone device. When you have mini computers with microphones, cameras, and GPS, it ain't gonna be difficult to figure out when someone is having a bowel movement.

Imagine crosschecking stationary GPS data with Candy Crush usage...


----------



## CQB (May 23, 2020)

You goddit!


----------



## DA SWO (May 23, 2020)

CQB said:


> As for the mass surveillance issue mentioned earlier, the only difference between us doing it & the PRC is our system of government with *its checks & balances. *As the Fourth Industrial Revolution continues, surveillance will only increase in capability.


Checks and balances that get ignored.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 24, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> It's already here... the majority of our population has access to some sort of smart phone device. When you have mini computers with microphones, cameras, and GPS, it ain't gonna be difficult to figure out when someone is having a bowel movement.
> 
> Imagine crosschecking stationary GPS data with Candy Crush usage...


Oh I know.  How else are newspapers getting movement data and then writing articles to try and shame people into doing nothing.  Instagram got an update in the past week that should have had a push notification to you if you have an account asking if it could access your GPS data.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Oh I know.  How else are newspapers getting movement data and then writing articles to try and shame people into doing nothing.  Instagram got an update in the past week that should have had a push notification to you if you have an account asking if it could access your GPS data.


Hence why phones or non approved electronic devices are verboten anywhere sensitive. It's not just GPS data, there is a lot you can tell about behavior based on the apps, income level, and social media accounts a person has. 

This isn't anything new either. Archaeologists do the same sort of data analysis with discarded scraps. Combine that methodology with modern information systems and the world becomes very dark indeed. Makes 1984 or Fahrenheit 451 seem like a kids fairy tale dream.

For levity:


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 24, 2020)

NYT published the names of every person who's died from COVID-19 on their front page.  Funny, haven't done that with terror attacks.  Also more serious and not funny.  A bunch of these dudes were confirmed as COVID-19 related gunshot homicides.


----------



## Grunt (May 24, 2020)

I've never liked or believed "statistics" before. Now, since COVID, I don't believe any of them anymore. After taking statistics, I knew then they aren't worth the time it takes to quote them. COVID stats are a joke....


----------



## GOTWA (May 24, 2020)

New business plan that if we jump on early, we can make out like bandits. We sell to the Army...yellow reflective masks.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 24, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> New business plan that if we jump on early, we can make out like bandits. We sell to the Army...yellow reflective masks.



How will you spend your first Billion dollars.....?


----------



## Salt USMC (May 24, 2020)

Grunt said:


> I've never liked or believed "statistics" before. Now, since COVID, I don't believe any of them anymore. After taking statistics, I knew then they aren't worth the time it takes to quote them. COVID stats are a joke....


Okay.  How many Americans do YOU think have died from the virus?


----------



## Grunt (May 24, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> Okay.  How many Americans do YOU think have died from the virus?



It really doesn't matter. I know it's not the amount that *they* are saying it is. You can choose to believe them if you so choose; however, I won't.


----------



## digrar (May 25, 2020)

Do you believe in excess death stats? Because a lot of extra people are dying that wouldn't normally be dying. They've got to be dying of something.


----------



## Ranger Psych (May 25, 2020)

digrar said:


> Do you believe in excess death stats? Because a lot of extra people are dying that wouldn't normally be dying. They've got to be dying of something.



more people are dying. Law enforcement won't play as hard as they have been, because it could get them killed even worse. The Cannonball record's been broken 7 times over since this shit started and you haven't been able to go home.

What's your point?


----------



## Grunt (May 25, 2020)

LE stats are jacked up.
Political stats are jacked up.
COVID stats are jacked up.

Need I say more....

Believe them all you want. LIke I said, it's your choice...I choose not to.


----------



## RackMaster (May 25, 2020)

This could be the potential breakthrough the world needs right now.  Synthetic antibodies created here in Canada.  Current work to fast track it into production.

U of T researcher believes they’ve found a cure for COVID-19


----------



## GOTWA (May 25, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This could be the potential breakthrough the world needs right now.  Synthetic antibodies created here in Canada.  Current work to fast track it into production.
> 
> U of T researcher believes they’ve found a cure for COVID-19



This got me searching for the use of CRISPR based remedies and then I found THIS. Much like the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have driven emergency medical developments and techniques, COVID-19 could be the thing that drives the use of CRISPR in humans.


----------



## digrar (May 25, 2020)

Ranger Psych said:


> What's your point?



Just that a place that keeps good weekly death stats like the UK, has had 55000 more deaths than they normally would since the last week of March. Maybe everyone took up running with scissors,  I don't know.


----------



## CQB (May 25, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This could be the potential breakthrough the world needs right now.  Synthetic antibodies created here in Canada.  Current work to fast track it into production.
> 
> U of T researcher believes they’ve found a cure for COVID-19


We have some germ nerds about to commmence a clinical trial here too.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 26, 2020)

If anyone is interested, here is the State Mandated survey that is required to be filled out if you are going to dine-in at a Minnesota restaurant. 

Visitor & Employee Health Screening Survey Checklist


----------



## CQB (May 26, 2020)

Fair call, it’s contact tracing, in case another patron falls ill. Just filled in one here myself.


----------



## Blizzard (May 26, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> If anyone is interested, here is the State Mandated survey that is required to be filled out if you are going to dine-in at a Minnesota restaurant.
> 
> Visitor & Employee Health Screening Survey Checklist


Is this form from a personal business you're associated with?  Asking because it's a Google docs form.  This wasn't issued by the state, right?  It just captures the info the state says is required, which is this form, right?

Who is going to care for all this PHI and associated adminstrivia that's being collected in the Google form (tying name, phone, and date to health info)?  That presents a risk/liability, in addition to adding unneeded overhead to business.

The whole thing is asinine.  This health screening thing is yet another solution brought to you by the good idea fairy.  Listen, it's either safe to open up or it's not.  We don't need the additional bullshit.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Is this form from a personal business you're associated with? Asking because it's a Google docs form


It is posted by another business with the intent to inform customers what will be required by The State when they show up for their reservation. 

These forms will be handed out when the server brings out menus.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 27, 2020)

Hmmm, they may come back with a new bill then. 

Kansas governor vetoes limits on her power but loosens rules


----------



## RackMaster (May 29, 2020)

Finally an article with a doctor telling us the truth. 



> “We now know that to get infected with this virus, *you have to be in close contact with another person (and) that contact has to be for a significant amount of time. It’s not 10 or 15 minutes, it’s hours. *It needs to be in a closed environment, a house, and in the environment, there has to be a significant amount of contamination."   "*Evans admitted that the science shows that wearing a cloth face mask does little to stop transmitting the virus in close proximity. The mask, which has recently become a political tool, is mostly for the psychological well-being of the community, *Evans said."



New evidence: Most common place to contract COVID-19 is at home


----------



## Cookie_ (May 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Finally an article with a doctor telling us the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> New evidence: Most common place to contract COVID-19 is at home



I'm so happy he ended with this comment 



> “Things are changing all the time. We just keep getting more evidence and more data,” Evans said. “When you’re looking for information, reach out to good sources of information: newspapers, television newscasts, radio. That’s where you want to get your information. Don’t get it from Twitter, don’t get it from Facebook, and don’t get it through a rumour. That’s not reliable.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Finally an article with a doctor telling us the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> New evidence: Most common place to contract COVID-19 is at home



Unless you're wearing a gasmask with a seal...whatever you cough is coming out the sides of the mask, if not through it.

Coughing - Health Video: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia



> *Coughing is a sudden expulsion of air from the lungs through the epiglottis at an amazingly fast speed (estimated at 100 miles per hour)*. With such a strong force of air, coughing is the body's mechanism for clearing the breathing passageways of unwanted irritants.


----------



## RackMaster (May 30, 2020)

And another flip flopping by the WHO.  I really hope they stop using masks as a political tool.  

Healthy people should wear masks only if caring for coronavirus patients, WHO says


----------



## Dame (Jun 2, 2020)

Well this is an interesting take on things. A contagious vascular disease.


> “If you start to put all of the data together that’s emerging, it turns out that this virus is probably a vasculotropic virus, meaning that it affects the [blood vessels],” says Mandeep Mehra, MD, medical director of the Brigham and Women’s Hospital Heart and Vascular Center.


https://elemental.medium.com/corona...isease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2


----------



## AWP (Jun 2, 2020)

Out of curiosity, I went to Fox, CNN, and MSNBC's home pages.

Fox - One or two virus-related stories kind of buried.
CNN - Still has virus coverage on the right side of the screen and at the top.
MSNBC - LOL. Wut virus?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 2, 2020)




----------



## Grunt (Jun 2, 2020)

I still feel the murder hornets were shafted when it came to their fair share of panic time. They were just barely glossed over and deserve better.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> Out of curiosity, I went to Fox, CNN, and MSNBC's home pages.
> 
> Fox - One or two virus-related stories kind of buried.
> CNN - Still has virus coverage on the right side of the screen and at the top.
> MSNBC - LOL. Wut virus?



if it bleeds it leads...


----------



## Kraut783 (Jun 2, 2020)

Seishin said:


> I still feel the murder hornets were shafted when it came to their fair share of panic time. They were just barely glossed over and deserve better.



their time will come....there is still six more months left in 2020.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 3, 2020)

This should be a little bit awkward for my Orange Man Bad friends.

A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling



> On its face, it was a major finding: Antimalarial drugs touted by the White House as possible COVID-19 treatments looked to be not just ineffective, but downright deadly. A study published on 22 May in The Lancet used hospital records procured by a little-known data analytics company called Surgisphere to conclude that coronavirus patients taking chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine were more likely to show an irregular heart rhythm—a known side effect thought to be rare—and were more likely to die in the hospital.



They even issued a Expression of Concern


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> This should be a little bit awkward for my Orange Man Bad friends.
> 
> A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling
> 
> ...




Another Article from the Guardian, but this even gets better. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268334676294410246


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jun 3, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> This should be a little bit awkward for my Orange Man Bad friends.
> 
> A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling
> 
> ...


I doubt they even care brother. We all know the newest orange man bad outrage tune they're singing is that Trump is a racist. Doubt these people ever cared about the efficacy of HCQ. 

Cognitive dissonance is a beautiful thing. I'm just waiting to see how the orange man bad crowd spins this. 


ThunderHorse said:


> Another Article from the Guardian, but this even gets better.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268334676294410246


The Lancent and New England School of Medicines peer review boards are sooo screwed. They're reputation just took a shotgun blast to the chest. 

Priceless!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 6, 2020)

Oh fuuuuuuuuuck this!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10110788722161187


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 6, 2020)

Prior to the last UFC (249?), the female that won posted the video of her getting the swabtest on the gram.  I pretty much said no thanks and decided I'd sit out the next round of tests....LOL!!!!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 6, 2020)

So, I went out for dinner tonight, there was a protest on the same street as we drove to the restaurant.  No social distancing at any of the restaurants we drove past that is for sure.  Obviously no social distancing at the protest.  So...yeah.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, I went out for dinner tonight, there was a protest on the same street as we drove to the restaurant.  No social distancing at any of the restaurants we drove past that is for sure.  Obviously no social distancing at the protest.  So...yeah.


It’s almost like- we just moved past it. Just sort of agreed we would all move on to riots and stuff.

What an absolutely wild time to be alive.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 7, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> It’s almost like- we just moved past it. Just sort of agreed we would all move on to riots and stuff.
> 
> What an absolutely wild time to be alive.


Right?! 

What exactly gas changed with the virus from 3 months ago? Nothing!  

We have no vaccine, no real treatment, nothing.  Yet, officials now have come up with some ridiculous half baked "plan" for phased or partial reopening.  

The whole thing is completely asinine at this point.


----------



## digrar (Jun 7, 2020)

Having the first of what could be a few monthly covid tests tomorrow. I haven't had one since we had a suspected Anthrax attack at the US Consulate back in 2004. 16 years on and I still remember the sensation. Not overly looking forward to it.


----------



## AWP (Jun 8, 2020)

"There's no way CV-19 was man made, it came from bats!"

Yeah, about that...

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence



> The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV underscores the threat of cross-species transmission events leading to outbreaks in humans. Here we examine the disease potential of a SARS-like virus, SHC014-CoV, which is currently circulating in Chinese horseshoe bat populations1. Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone.
> 
> On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both _in vitro_ and _in vivo_. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.



In addition, check out 2 things: the date and the scientists involved. Just hover over their names...


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 8, 2020)

This thing is definitely unravelling. 

Norway Scientist Claims Report Proves Coronavirus Was Lab-Made


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This thing is definitely unravelling.
> 
> Norway Scientist Claims Report Proves Coronavirus Was Lab-Made



He can throw his paper in the ring with the other 50 scientists who claim it's lab-made, to offset the other 50 who claim it's not.  It'll be a long time until there is consensus.  Cognitive bias is strong, which is ironic given that it's with "scientists."

@Ooh-Rah , yup, that's how it's done.  We call it "tickling the brain."

Our numbers leveled off for a few week, but on the rise again, along with the percentage of people requiring ICU admission.  This thing is NOWHERE near over.

Meanwhile, now that we've taught the entire health system PPE, we are encouraged to work from home.  Me, I oversee, coordinate, and teach specialty courses which are required by multiple accreditation, licensure, and certification agencies, and we are currently back-logged 3,000 expired certification, so I start climbing out that hole tomorrow, 10 people per class at a time.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 8, 2020)

Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is 'very rare,' WHO says

I mean like, no shit, asymptomatic doesn't necessarily means "infectious".


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is 'very rare,' WHO says
> 
> I mean like, no shit, asymptomatic doesn't necessarily means "infectious".



It's like trying to prove a negative: how can you tell if someone has it but doesn't know it but gives it to someone else?


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jun 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> It's like trying to prove a negative: how can you tell if someone has it but doesn't know it but gives it to someone else?



Didn’t something like 15-20 nurses at Duke on one unit get infected from one asymptomatic patient? Granted they most likely transmitted it to each other, but the initial case was an asymptomatic patient prior to widespread testing.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 14, 2020)




----------



## NovemberWhiskey (Jun 14, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Didn’t something like 15-20 nurses at Duke on one unit get infected from one asymptomatic patient? Granted they most likely transmitted it to each other, but the initial case was an asymptomatic patient prior to widespread testing.



I was about to ask the very same things. Nurses I talk to (US & UK) keep saying the majority of serious cases they treated were asymptomatic until well. Landing at the ICU they work.

Not sure how much of what WHO publishes these days is health accurate and how much is trying to calm the mass panic the best they can. Rapid changing of presentation and additional related syndromes (like Kawasaki / kids) may be another problem, not surprised if health care workers themselves don't know what to screen out for first.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 15, 2020)

De Blasio shuts down parks frequented by Orthodox Jews because of COVID . . . but does nothing about the other thing going on in his city.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272669507778207744


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> De Blasio shuts down parks frequented by Orthodox Jews because of COVID . . . but does nothing about the other thing going on in his city.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272669507778207744


He responded by welding the gates shut.


----------



## Gordus (Jun 16, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> View attachment 34433



and just like this cat.


----------



## DA SWO (Jun 16, 2020)

LOL, Texas is getting a spike in cases, mainly 20-29 year olds.
Wonder why?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> LOL, Texas is getting a spike in cases, mainly 20-29 year olds.
> Wonder why?



Same here.  Our numbers in the hospital are increasing bigly.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 16, 2020)

An interesting COVID-19 research released over the weekend. Three peer reviewed studies and two other studies that have yet to be peer reviewed. Your blood type has a profound affect on your outcome with COVID-19. O type blood appears to be all but immune while A type blood seems to be highly vulnerable

Genetic study suggests that people’s blood type may affect their COVID-19 risk


> Last week, a genetic study of more than 1,610 COVID-19 patients in Italy and Spain found that people with type A blood had a higher chance of developing severe respiratory failure than people with type O blood (medRxiv 2020, DOI: 10.1101/2020.05.31.20114991). The findings add support to an idea that has been developing since early in the global pandemic, that type O blood is somehow protective against the disease, while type A may make people more vulnerable.




The specific mechanisms look like this: Covid replicates in person 1 who is blood type X. Type A people produce antigens to B type blood, B type people produce antigens to A type blood, O type people produce antigens to both A and B. Since Novel Corona Virus acquires the antigen of it's host, it can not bind to Os unless the carrier is an O. Also one of the most severe underlying issues in COVID-19 is blood clotting which causes most of the ICU cases, and O type has the least active clotting mechanisms O's seem to be affected far less severely.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> An interesting COVID-19 research released over the weekend. Three peer reviewed studies and two other studies that have yet to be peer reviewed. Your blood type has a profound affect on your outcome with COVID-19. O type blood appears to be all but immune while A type blood seems to be highly vulnerable



Sweet. I'm fucked if I get this. Good news is, there will be an open Admin slot on SS!


----------



## Steve1839 (Jun 17, 2020)

AWP said:


> Sweet. I'm fucked if I get this.


An A+ in blood type was the highest grade I had in sophomore biology...


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> LOL, Texas is getting a spike in cases, mainly 20-29 year olds.
> Wonder why?


Waiting for the link in younger Covid-19 cases and vaping.... I haven't seen that one thrown out yet.


----------



## medicchick (Jun 17, 2020)

AWP said:


> Sweet. I'm fucked if I get this. Good news is, there will be an open Admin slot on SS!


Me too but RP will be fine apparently.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 18, 2020)

Blood types may play role in which COVID patients get sickest

A you're fucked, O congrats.


----------



## medicchick (Jun 18, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Blood types may play role in which COVID patients get sickest
> 
> A you're fucked, O congrats.


Old news, look up a few posts.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jun 19, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Old news, look up a few posts.



I didn't see any crayons or pictures so I missed it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2020)

Whelp...now we have a mask mandate.  I hate these people.

LIST: Arizona cities with face mask requirements


----------



## SaintKP (Jun 19, 2020)

Nebraska governor tells local officials they can't require face masks if they want federal coronavirus-relief funding


I may disagree with Ricketts on certain things, but his overall handling and stance on controlling Covid has been fantastic.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2020)

Dollars to donuts the spike Arizona is suffering is from the brajillion Californians that came here during Memorial weekend because we were "open".


----------



## AWP (Jun 20, 2020)

My sister-in-law works in a doctor's office. She's one of four to catch CV-19. Because my mother-in-law is a goddamn emotional rabbit hole my wife could barely get any information out of her about the SIL.


----------



## Ranger Psych (Jun 20, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Me too but RP will be fine apparently.



Sasquatch superiority reigns supreme.


----------



## AWP (Jun 21, 2020)

If CV-19 is deadly and NY's leadership forced CV-19 positive people into nursing homes, homes that saw numerous casualties, then why shouldn't NY's leadership be charged with manslaughter? If the disease is deadly and you're screaming it's deadly, but you put healthy people with sick people...didn't you just murder the healthy ones? If police are to be held responsible for their actions, shouldn't elected officials?


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> If police are to be held responsible for their actions, shouldn't elected officials?



This.


----------



## Dame (Jun 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> If CV-19 is deadly and NY's leadership forced CV-19 positive people into nursing homes, homes that saw numerous casualties, then why shouldn't NY's leadership be charged with manslaughter? If the disease is deadly and you're screaming it's deadly, but you put healthy people with sick people...didn't you just murder the healthy ones? If police are to be held responsible for their actions, shouldn't elected officials?


Well that's just crazy talk. Next you're going to say that the CDC should be held responsible for infecting people. Just because they did. Geeze.
Feds Confirms CDC Deployed Tainted Tests with Coronavirus - Business Game Changers with Sarah Westall
C.D.C. Labs Were Contaminated, Delaying Coronavirus Testing, Officials Say


----------



## Dame (Jun 21, 2020)

See there? They may not have even been positive. Those tests weren't accurate and the CDC knew it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2020)

Wondering if this goes here or the Fired Naval Officers thread.  The US Navy has upheld the firing of Captain Crozier.  Admiral Baker was also removed from his post as Strike Group Commander and that has been upheld as well. 

Navy upholds firing of carrier captain in virus outbreak


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Wondering if this goes here or the Fired Naval Officers thread.  The US Navy has upheld the firing of Captain Crozier.  Admiral Baker was also removed from his post as Strike Group Commander and that has been upheld as well.
> 
> Navy upholds firing of carrier captain in virus outbreak


I think it's both....that's fine.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 22, 2020)

Ummm....

This is a weird ... thing?

Enter any number 0 - 999 into Google and "New Cases"

Example:  '29 New cases'
1069 New Cases (my bootcamp platoon number)
1775 New Cases (Semper Fi)
1 New Cases
Etc..
Etc...

I think I need a tinfoil timeout.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Ummm....
> 
> This is a weird ... thing?
> 
> ...


Yeah I saw that.  Ugh


----------



## CQB (Jun 22, 2020)

How did you find that? Pretty weird.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 22, 2020)

Try it on a better search engine that doesn't manipulate results?


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 22, 2020)

Any suggestions @Florida173 ?


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 22, 2020)

Am I missing what's weird here or something?

If it's the fact that typing "new cases" gives COVID states, that isn't that strange seeing as that's likely the most searched information with that phrase right now.

If it's the numbers, that's just probability. I'm getting results from all over the world if not local news stories in the US.


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 23, 2020)

I am going to really need some help on this... 

Oregon county issues face mask order that exempts non-white people



> But people of color do not have to follow the new rule if they have “heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment” over wearing the masks, officials said.


----------



## medicchick (Jun 23, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> I am going to really need some help on this...
> 
> Oregon county issues face mask order that exempts non-white people


Face Covering Directive



> People of color who have heightened concerns about racial profiling and harassment due to wearing face coverings in public.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 23, 2020)

Face masks become mandatory in Washington state starting Friday, Inslee says

Go fuck yourself, governor.


----------



## medicchick (Jun 23, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Face masks become mandatory in Washington state starting Friday, Inslee says
> 
> Go fuck yourself, governor.


I expect it to happen in Oregon next since Cali has the same mandate.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 23, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Face masks become mandatory in Washington state starting Friday, Inslee says
> 
> Go fuck yourself, governor.


He's also never heard of the CHAZ, or that Olympia is in open revolt behind his line state police at the Washington State Capitol complex.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 23, 2020)

Our admissions are at an all-time high. However deaths are going down. That's good news, except the chronic sick are standing in the hospital longer which means less turnover which means sick people have to wait longer to get admitted.

I am back at it at 60 hours a week, and exhausted. Half of our staff have been tested for Corona virus and have been negative so far.


----------



## Dame (Jun 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Our admissions are at an all-time high. However deaths are going down. That's good news, except the chronic sick are standing in the hospital longer which means less turnover which means sick people have to wait longer to get admitted.
> 
> I am back at it at 60 hours a week, and exhausted. Half of our staff have been tested for Corona virus and have been negative so far.


Hang in there doc.

ETA: My new office-mate went to get tested yesterday. So help me if he got me sick and I can't see hubby, I will make his life a misery worse than the virus.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 23, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Our admissions are at an all-time high. However deaths are going down. That's good news, except the chronic sick are standing in the hospital longer which means less turnover which means sick people have to wait longer to get admitted.
> 
> I am back at it at 60 hours a week, and exhausted. Half of our staff have been tested for Corona virus and have been negative so far.


Keep fighting the good fight. If you want some good coffee or something, let me know.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 29, 2020)

So I don't remember this article being in here.  So get this, starting in May the CDC began combining Anti-body testing and viral testing in their actual results for each day.  So this "Spike" includes all of the anti-body tests being done right now.  

‘How Could the CDC Make That Mistake?’


----------



## Florida173 (Jun 30, 2020)

Two interesting articles.




> Researchers from the University of Barcelona say they detected the virus in sewage samples were collected in the Spanish city on March 12, 2019. That’s several months before the first cases that would lead to the current pandemic were officially identified in Wuhan, China in early December.


The Coronavirus Was Detected In Sewage In March Of 2019, Far From Wuhan, China




> The intermingling of viral and antibody tests suggests that some of those gains might be illusory. If even a third of the country’s gain in testing has come by expanding antibody tests, not viral tests, then its ability to detect an outbreak is much smaller than it seems. There is no way to ascertain how much of the recent increase in testing is from antibody tests until the most populous states in the country—among them Texas, Georgia, and Pennsylvania—show their residents everything in the data.


‘How Could the CDC Make That Mistake?’


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 30, 2020)

Agenda Based Media on COVID-19

In May...

US lockdown protests may have spread virus widely, cellphone data suggests

Oh and now...

Black Lives Matter protests may have slowed overall spread of coronavirus in Denver and other cities, new study finds

Watching the TimCast...if you change the title to riot instead of protest it makes sense.


----------



## AWP (Jun 30, 2020)

As I've said before, the data is bullshit. We're making decisions based upon bad numbers without acknowledging those numbers are flawed.


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 1, 2020)

New Swine Flu Found in China Has Pandemic Potential



> WASHINGTON - Researchers in China have discovered a new type of swine flu that is capable of triggering a pandemic, according to a study published Monday in the U.S. science journal PNAS.
> 
> Named G4, it is genetically descended from the H1N1 strain that caused a pandemic in 2009.
> 
> It possesses "all the essential hallmarks of being highly adapted to infect humans," say the authors, scientists at Chinese universities and China's Center for Disease Control and Prevention.



It continuously amazes me how this is always a thing in ChY-Na'. I'm not a conspiracy theorist...but it seems like they have a wide variety of shoes to choose from.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 1, 2020)

Why can't this stuff devastate Pakistan?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 1, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Why can't this stuff devastate Pakistan?


Cause their medical care is garbage, they live in filth, and vaccines are viewed as a western witchcraft. When the weak die off they're wrapped in a white sheet and tossed into a ditch. Human life is cheap down there, they don't care.


----------



## CQB (Jul 1, 2020)

Which means yup!


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 2, 2020)

Surprise surprise, China didn't warn the WHO. 

EVEN WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT: New Timeline Reveals China Didn't Warn The WHO About Coronavirus Threat, Info On A US Website Did Instead


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 3, 2020)

Guess what, Hydroxychloroquine works, and has worked.  And the only reason media companies were trying to go against it was because the POTUS.  But now he hasn't been talking about it...and boom. 

Study finds hydroxychloroquine may have boosted survival, but other researchers have doubts


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Guess what, Hydroxychloroquine works, and has worked.  And the only reason media companies were trying to go against it was because the POTUS.  But now he hasn't been talking about it...and boom.
> 
> Study finds hydroxychloroquine may have boosted survival, but other researchers have doubts


I mean, if we’re keeping score at home, there’s something like a half dozen studies which say that HCQ has no effect on COVID mortality, two retracted studies which claimed HCQ _increased_ mortality, and one study (along with a bunch of anecdotes) saying it reduced mortality.

To me, that seems highly inconclusive.  It seems like nobody really understands the mechanism of action here, and recommending this drug for treatment should not be considered so rashly.


----------



## AWP (Jul 3, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> I mean, if we’re keeping score at home, there’s something like a half dozen studies which say that HCQ has no effect on COVID mortality, two retracted studies which claimed HCQ _increased_ mortality, and one study (along with a bunch of anecdotes) saying it reduced mortality.
> 
> To me, that seems highly inconclusive.  It seems like nobody really understands the mechanism of action here, and recommending this drug for treatment should not be considered so rashly.



But this is the problem I have with how everything has played out: multiple conflicting studies from multiple organizations or groups with strong credentials. Plus, how many of those studies were politically driven instead of with bad information?

We created global hysteria over something we don't understand.


----------



## CQB (Jul 5, 2020)

Science is never settled, it moves forward & the debate is part of the process.


----------



## compforce (Jul 5, 2020)

CQB said:


> Science is never settled, it moves forward & the debate is part of the process.



But when the science is being used as a political tool, there is confirmation bias on both sides.  Is it even really science at that point?  How do you break the tie when everyone involved is conflicted?


----------



## CQB (Jul 5, 2020)

I just attempt to get to good source material & in any good peer reviewed information there’s not a lot of bias. 
A good example of bias is In the press where it can be quite obvious, so take it on board & understand it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

Yeah, pretty much.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279739315946479617
Coronavirus Daily Deaths Down 92.4% From Peak, Have Declined Ten Straight Weeks


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 5, 2020)

We are all 💀 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279531380439998475


----------



## SaintKP (Jul 5, 2020)

Let the apocalypse come, I could use a vacation.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 5, 2020)

Come for the fun, stay for the 'rona.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 5, 2020)

CQB said:


> I just attempt to get to good source material & in any good peer reviewed information there’s not a lot of bias.
> A good example of bias is In the press where it can be quite obvious, so take it on board & understand it.



There's a lot of bias in peer-reviewed journals, too (well, medical journals).  JAMA is the worst.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> There's a lot of bias in peer-reviewed journals, too (well, medical journals).  JAMA is the worst.


To that point, here is an interesting podcast from Michael Osterholm, he's been referenced numerous times earlier in this thread - overall, I'm still not a fan but on this topic he makes sense:
Special Episode: Masks and Science

^ You can listen to the podcast or read the transcript but among numerous interesting comments/observations, was this one from Osterholm:

"What  was  even  more telling,  regarding  the  MASKS4ALL  letter  was  the fact  that  over  a  hundred prominent  experts  called  for  this  mask requirement.  I  contacted  five  of  them  who  I  know  well, all are  close  friends.  Four  of  them  were  “surprised to  shocked”  when  I  shared the  information  I  just with shared with  you regarding  the  body  of  data  or  lack thereof, supporting  the effectiveness  of cloth masks  in preventing  viral  respiratory-transmitted agents. They  had just  assumed that  the summary  information was  accurate. The  fifth one  was  honest  enough to say  to me, "Well,  I signed it  because  of  pressure  from  peers.”  I  don't  know  how  many  of  the  other  signers  of  the letter  had  a  similar  experience. Regardless, this  is  not  the  way  you make  science-based  public policy  on such  a  critical  issue."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> We are all 💀
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1279531380439998475


The PEOPLE, are done.  I've been saying this for a month and change.  The people want to party and work.  If you won't let them work, they will party their asses off.  Then you have the weirdos that are "protesting".  But the normal folks?  They just want to do their normal shit.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2020)

No surprise here that our enemies are spreading false information. 

OII | State-backed media from China and Russia targets European and Latin American audiences with coronavirus news — Oxford Internet Institute


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 6, 2020)

China is a dumpster fire and it needs to be put out. 

Suspected case of bubonic plague in China's Inner Mongolia



> Bayannur authorities warned the public to report findings of dead or sick marmots -- a type of large ground squirrel that is eaten in some parts of China and the neighboring country Mongolia, and which have historically caused plague outbreaks in the region.


----------



## CQB (Jul 6, 2020)

My heart bleeds buckets of piss, it really does.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

Yes, SARS-COV-2 is viral.  Tell us something we didn't know!  If this was communicable by fluid exchange there would be less people dead, duh.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280537248291794945


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 7, 2020)

I need to move. Who doesn't live in insane village?

Requiring people who visit me in my house, must wear masks? It's my house. Take a hike.

Seriously, if your community isn't crazy, let me know.

Indoor face mask mandate to start Monday in Dane County


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yes, SARS-COV-2 is viral.  Tell us something we didn't know!  If this was communicable by fluid exchange there would be less people dead, duh.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280537248291794945



I’m sure you know this but there is a difference between airborne and droplet. The fact that it is viral has nothing to do with either. Norovirus is one of the most communicable virus’s on the planet and it is only communicable via surface contamination or exchange of fluids. Luckily Norovirus is relatively benign in the first world.

I don’t know of any medical center that isn’t already treating this as if it is Airborne. So I do agree, that we should realistically all be treating it as such if possible.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 7, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> I need to move. Who doesn't live in insane village?
> 
> Requiring people who visit me in my house, must wear masks? It's my house. Take a hike.
> 
> ...



Making rules that no one will follow shows how much out of touch many of our government entities are.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Inside medical facilities is one thing, they have all the appropriate PPE and training.  But then putting aside all knowledge of said training and cherry picking reports to push public policy that ignores a major form of transmission.  That's irrational.  The masses are scared, because they've been told to he scared and now we need them to interact with other's.  People were going to demand mask's but are not going to question the difference between a bandana and a respirator. If everyone demanded respirators, then we'd have another shortage.



> Global experts: Ignoring airborne COVID spread risky cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/global-experts-ignoring-airborne-covid-spread-risky Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News  | Jul 06, 2020 Bentson Foundation The lack of universal recognition that COVID-19 is transmitted via airborne particles, along with unclear infection-prevention recommendations, have led to a false sense of security that is putting the public at risk—especially amid reopenings of workplaces, schools, and colleges, according to a research letter published today in Clinical Infectious Diseases. Study authors Lidia Morawska, PhD, MSc, director of the International Laboratory for Air Quality and Health at the World Health Organization (WHO) Collaborating Centre in Brisbane, Australia, and Donald Milton, MD, DrPH, MOH, of the University of Maryland in College Park, said they implore the medical community and policymakers to acknowledge that SARS-CoV-2 can spread through the inhalation of microscopic respiratory droplets within 2 meters (6.6 feet) or close to the infectious person. Another 237 scientists from around the world signed the research letter, which states that studies have demonstrated "beyond all reasonable doubt" that viruses released during normal breathing, talking, and coughing are small enough to remain airborne and pose an infection risk to others nearby. For example, at usual indoor airspeeds, a 5-micrometer (μm) (0.005-millimeter) particle can travel throughout a typical-sized room, settling from a height of about 1.5 meters (roughly 5 feet) onto the floor. Lisa Brosseau, ScD, a nationally known expert on respiratory protection and infectious diseases and author of a commentary on COVID-19 transmission published by CIDRAP, said that the airborne route is traditionally defined as inhalation of respiratory pathogens only at a distance from the source. The study authors argue that there is plenty of evidence to indicate that infectious people generate lots of small particles, too, which remain near the source for long periods of time, said Brosseau, who calls this "aerosol transmission." Brosseau is a research consultant for the University of Minnesota's Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, which publishes CIDRAP News. Infectious virus in aerosols The authors cited a study of video records of three people infected with COVID-19 at a poorly ventilated Chinese restaurant. The videos showed no direct or indirect contact among the three parties, leading the researchers to conclude that the virus must have spread through the airborne route. And studies of other viruses such as respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) have shown that viruses can be exhaled and/or detected in the air of MERS isolation wards. "There is every reason to expect that SARS-CoV-2 behaves similarly, and that transmission via airborne microdroplets is an important pathway," they wrote. "Viral RNA associated with droplets smaller than 5 μm has been detected in air, and the virus has been shown to survive equally well, if not better, in aerosols compared to droplets on a surface." While current guidance from many international and national agencies recommends handwashing, physical distancing, and droplet precautions, most, including the WHO, don't recognize airborne transmission other than through aerosol-generating procedures, such as intubations, conducted in healthcare settings. The authors said they want the organization to redefine airborne transmission to include the inhalation of microscopic respiratory droplets close to the infectious source. CIDRAP Director Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, agrees that the WHO needs to concede that viruses such as COVID-19 can spread via the airborne route. "We are long overdue for the WHO to confront the blind spot it has had for accepting the critical importance of airborne transmission of respiratory pathogens such as influenza and SARS-CoV-2," he said. Brosseau concurs, saying that the WHO doesn't want to recommend respirators for use in less-developed countries. "I also think it's because their infection control advisors are intransigent when it comes to thinking about inhalation of aerosols close to a source," she said. Handwashing, physical distancing not enough The authors said that handwashing and physical distancing are appropriate—but not sufficient—to provide protection against respiratory microdroplets, particularly in poorly ventilated indoor environments such as those that have been at the center of several "superspreading" events. They recommend providing effective ventilation of indoor areas, including supplying clean outdoor air, minimizing recirculation, and supplementing with local exhaust, high-efficiency air filtration, and germ-killing ultraviolet lights, especially in public buildings, workplaces, schools, hospitals, and nursing homes. They also advise avoiding crowding, especially on public transportation and in buildings. *Noting that the guidance doesn't include the use of face coverings in public, Brosseau said that that is probably because they "will do very little to prevent the spread or stop the inhalation of small particles." *Acknowledging that the evidence is incomplete for all modes of coronavirus spread, including microdroplets, large droplets, and infected surfaces that are the foundation of current guidance, the authors said that the measures they propose offer more benefits than potential risks, even if only partially implemented. Even such low-cost measures as opening doors and windows can effectively increase air flow in many buildings, the authors said. The American Society of Heating, Ventilating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers and the Federation of European Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning Associations have already issued recommendations for mechanical systems. "In order to control the pandemic, pending the availability of a vaccine, all routes of transmission must be interrupted," the researchers wrote.


Global experts: Ignoring airborne COVID spread risky


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Inside medical facilities is one thing, they have all the appropriate PPE and training.  But then putting aside all knowledge of said training and cherry picking reports to push public policy that ignores a major form of transmission.  That's irrational.  The masses are scared, because they've been told to he scared and now we need them to interact with other's.  People were going to demand mask's but are not going to question the difference between a bandana and a respirator. If everyone demanded respirators, then we'd have another shortage.
> 
> 
> Global experts: Ignoring airborne COVID spread risky


To add to this point, you've got a shit ton of people running around that don't know how to wear a mask correctly.  Some have their nose hanging out, which is the equivalent of wearing a condom but cutting the tip off it.  I've even seen some remove their mask to cough or sneeze! Now, tell me why the hell you're even wasting your time if you're going to do that?!


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To add to this point, you've got a shit ton of people running around that don't know how to wear a mask correctly.  Some have their nose hanging out, which is the equivalent of wearing a condom but cutting the tip off it.  I've even seen some remove their mask to cough or sneeze! Now, tell me why the hell you're even wasting your time if you're going to do that?!



Or pulling them down past their chin or away from their face to talk on their phone.   Plus now that they have a "mask" on, they put aside all social distancing and get right in your face.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 8, 2020)

At least you guys have some more rational minds than the ones in my house.  My father is still Monday Morning Quarterbacking the whole thing saying that we needed to have a complete and total shutdown of all travel of persons for the first two weeks and then everything will be back to normal by now.  He's a doctor and a control freak so this pandemic is literally hitting him in all the trigger points right now.  Let's not talk about his new solution which is to lock down until vaccine because they didn't listen to "his advice."


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> At least you guys have some more rational minds than the ones in my house.  My father is still Monday Morning Quarterbacking the whole thing saying that we needed to have a complete and total shutdown of all travel of persons for the first two weeks and then everything will be back to normal by now.  He's a doctor and a control freak so this pandemic is literally hitting him in all the trigger points right now.  Let's not talk about his new solution which is to lock down until vaccine because they didn't listen to "his advice."



Honest question, I really want to know:  is he going to stand in line for a vaccine?  I sure as hell am not.  

Government:  "Let's field a vaccine which has been fast-tracked, about which we do not know of any unintentional consequences!  What can go wrong?"

I have been in the military.  I am naturally skeptical of being a guinea pig.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 8, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Honest question, I really want to know:  is he going to stand in line for a vaccine?  I sure as hell am not.
> 
> Government:  "Let's field a vaccine which has been fast-tracked, about which we do not know of any unintentional consequences!  What can go wrong?"
> 
> I have been in the military.  I am naturally skeptical of being a guinea pig.



Don't get me wrong, I love my father and I know that he's doing this kind of stuff because he is genuinely scared - not because he's power hungry.

To answer your question, he trusts doctors and I'm sure he will be first in line to get the vaccine if it becomes publicly available. He'll of course wear his N95 mask and stand in the socially distanced line for as long as possible.

Part of it is because he's a "solve the problem now we'll worry about the implications later" type of person, contrasting my mother who always wants the most elegant, perfect solution to a problem.  I hope that explains why he doesn't care about the unconstitutionality of his earlier proposals.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 8, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love my father and I know that he's doing this kind of stuff because he is genuinely scared - not because he's power hungry.
> 
> To answer your question, he trusts doctors and I'm sure he will be first in line to get the vaccine if it becomes publicly available. He'll of course wear his N95 mask and stand in the socially distanced line for as long as possible.
> 
> Part of it is because he's a "solve the problem now we'll worry about the implications later" type of person, contrasting my mother who always wants the most elegant, perfect solution to a problem.  I hope that explains why he doesn't care about the unconstitutionality of his earlier proposals.



Thanks.  The unconstitutionality isn't why I was asking, I was asking from the perspective of him being a physician.  I know a lot of people who are clamoring for their spot in the line; oddly (or not, I suppose....) a lot of medical professionals are not in that group.  

What does scare me are those "solve the problem now we'll worry about the implications later" people, especially when it comes to a vaccine that you can't uninject once it goes in.  I saw this after 9/11 with smallpox; and I am convinced that some people are having long-term issues from anthrax vax as well.

Of course, the unconstitutionality of a lot of what is going on is a much wider-scoped, more far-reaching issue.


----------



## Archangel27 (Jul 8, 2020)

Yeah he doesn't see vaccine hesitancy as a legitimate argument.  So any attempt to convince him otherwise will not dissuade him from giving it to us.  I don't generally have a problem with it either, but it's not something that I'll have much control over in a few weeks.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

Science!!  Get these installed every where. 

University of Houston researchers create nickel foam filter to catch, kill COVID-19 virus


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Science!!  Get these installed every where.
> 
> University of Houston researchers create nickel foam filter to catch, kill COVID-19 virus



_The researchers reported that virus tests at the Galveston National Laboratory found 99.8 percent of the novel virus that causes COVID-19 was killed in a single pass through a filter made from commercially available nickel foam heated to 392 degrees Fahrenheit._

Hell, not many organisms can survive 392°F...


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 8, 2020)

So this is what it costs to pay everyone to stay home and that's not even a full year.  Largest spending in Canadian history, including during wartime.  The US has roughly 9.6 times the population of Canada.  So that's would cost Americans just under $3.3 Trillion.

'The challenge of our lifetime': Federal deficit to hit $343 billion this year


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 10, 2020)

This is horrible.  We failed a whole generation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nursing-home-covid-19-deaths-1.5641266


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2020)

NBC, what a joke.  "I have COVID, but I've tested negative twice on the nasal swab, and negative on the anti-body test, but I have COVID."

NBC News Spent Weeks Reporting On A Contributor’s Journey Battling Coronavirus – But He Never Had It


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> NBC, what a joke.  "I have COVID, but I've tested negative twice on the nasal swab, and negative on the anti-body test, but I have COVID."
> 
> NBC News Spent Weeks Reporting On A Contributor’s Journey Battling Coronavirus – But He Never Had It


I just read this as well:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281741117008908288
How can we seriously trust the media when we consistently read about hoaxes they portray.


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 11, 2020)

I don't. The entirety of the media, IMO, is the shit I'd expect to find next to the gum in the checkout line of my local grocery store. At this point, I'd trust the tabloid headlines that state Brad Pitt has 4 testicles that led to a cheating scandal with Choel Moretz and Johnny Depp has been caught on the beach naked while snorting coke through his asshole.


----------



## AWP (Jul 11, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> snorting coke through his asshole.



Y'all laugh, but some call me a visionary.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 12, 2020)

Interesting article about how this spike isn't a second wave, makes a lot of sense, because if there was a second wave it would have hit states like New York and New Jersey hard.  Also argues that places like New York are at herd immunity.

Second wave? Not even close.


----------



## Dame (Jul 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Interesting article about how this spike isn't a second wave, makes a lot of sense, because if there was a second wave it would have hit states like New York and New Jersey hard.  Also argues that places like New York are at herd immunity.
> 
> Second wave? Not even close.



*This!*


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 13, 2020)

Dame said:


> *This!*
> 
> View attachment 34842



That is a great graph! I hope it continues. The realistic outlook though is that this trend will not continue. The average length of time from getting the virus to death is somewhere around 28 days. That means that low death rate is from people who were getting the virus in May, when cases were on the way down or about 1/3-1/2 daily of what they are now. By next week we should be through with 4th of July impacts on spread, which may help slow it down some.

I do not think it is realistic to assume that with upwards of 60k people getting the virus a day, that less people will die. I sincerely hope that is the case, but it isn’t realistic. I think we should be bracing ourselves for mid August, when suddenly there are 250-500k+deaths in the US. Again, I pray that this isn’t the case...

I would hope that instead, states with high numbers like Texas and Florida, take extreme actions to curb the spread. 15k cases a day in Florida is pretty dang high. That may prove unsustainable. We could be doing so much better.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/13/coronavirus-live-updates-us/


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 13, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> That is a great graph! I hope it continues. The realistic outlook though is that this trend will not continue. The average length of time from getting the virus to death is somewhere around 28 days. That means that low death rate is from people who were getting the virus in May, when cases were on the way down or about 1/3-1/2 daily of what they are now. By next week we should be through with 4th of July impacts on spread, which may help slow it down some.
> 
> I do not think it is realistic to assume that with upwards of 60k people getting the virus a day, that less people will die. I sincerely hope that is the case, but it isn’t realistic. I think we should be bracing ourselves for mid August, when suddenly there are 250-500k+deaths in the US. Again, I pray that this isn’t the case...
> 
> ...



Spot on, it's called (graphically) the "death lag."

Also agree, not a second wave; just a continuation of what we had.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 13, 2020)

There is a "death lag, but if you look at the data from the CDC, we should have seen a steady "stream" of deaths based on the sheer number of cases we continued to have.  But we have not.  



If Deaths lag by 20 days roughly, then we should have still kept having way beyond the number of deaths we have.  A lot of the cases for testing positive are including asymptomatic people as basically anyone can seek a test now.  


Purely anecdotal.  I had a friend who was real sick with the "flu" in November, she's in shape, competed at IMAZ and had a horrible race. Her agency is putting all of their officers through anti-body testing and she came back positive for anti-bodies.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There is a "death lag, but if you look at the data from the CDC, we should have seen a steady "stream" of deaths based on the sheer number of cases we continued to have.  But we have not.
> 
> View attachment 34852
> 
> ...



I think most agree the lag is between 25-35 days, so about a month. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to have it play out. I truly hope there is not an increase in deaths, and it is solely related to increased testing, and testing of asymptomatic individuals. I believe we will know by mid August what some of these effects truly are. I hope that the death rate continues to decline, I would rather watch football and basketball and go to class in person, but I doubt any of that will happen.

My anecdotal experience comes from being in the COVID ICU’s at a major medical center, and seeing people very sick for a very long time prior to dying. I am also admittedly in a social media bubble full of nurses and physicians from around the country. Many of them ICU providers, most of them are saying it is getting significantly worse daily(ie units at capacity, non-ICUs being converted and so on). Not to mention the new residents that just started;)

I don’t work in the hospital anymore, and am in school full time, so @Devildoc will have better information than me now anyways. Here is to hoping though!


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 13, 2020)

There may be a death lag, but that should be accounted for, almost completely, in hospitalizations/ICU beds, which in MN, anyway, are down significantly as well.  Our daily deaths are at early March numbers.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 13, 2020)

But but...news media says...hospitals overrun...


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 13, 2020)

@ThunderHorse , be careful not to assume correlation = causation.  The number of deaths won't be correlational to the number of cases.  It is true that the more we test, the more positives we find but the rate of death decreases (that's our hope, anyway).  But the death lag will be correlational to ICU admits and the 'right' age cohort, to @Dvr55119 point.  @Blizzard , our census is way up (summer is usually low census), and our COVID admits are as high/higher than at any point.

I will say from a workflow standpoint, I am getting beat.  We shut almost everything down mid-March, we were doing nothing but teaching PPE.  Then we taught everyone and I really didn't have anything to do for several.  Now, cases are up, hospitalizations are up, I am back to teaching what I had been teaching, and still teaching PPE (new house staff as of July 1), and rounding on the COVID units.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 13, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> But but...news media says...hospitals overrun...



They are, in huge parts of the country, the south particularly.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 13, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @ThunderHorse , be careful not to assume correlation = causation.  The number of deaths won't be correlational to the number of cases.  It is true that the more we test, the more positives we find but the rate of death decreases (that's our hope, anyway).  But the death lag will be correlational to ICU admits and the 'right' age cohort, to @Dvr55119 point.  @Blizzard , our census is way up (summer is usually low census), and our COVID admits are as high/higher than at any point.
> 
> I will say from a workflow standpoint, I am getting beat.  We shut almost everything down mid-March, we were doing nothing but teaching PPE.  Then we taught everyone and I really didn't have anything to do for several.  Now, cases are up, hospitalizations are up, I am back to teaching what I had been teaching, and still teaching PPE (new house staff as of July 1), and rounding on the COVID units.



I'm paying attention to all of it.  But the amount of fear porn being circulated by people with their agenda is too much, tell people they can't work, but hey tell people it's ok to protest?



Dvr55119 said:


> They are, in huge parts of the country, the south particularly.



In part because they went back to regular capacity, in another part because all of the patients that were scared to go to the hospital that had non-COVID related medical problems finally showed up sicker than a cat morphed into a bear.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm paying attention to all of it.  But the amount of fear porn being circulated by people with their agenda is too much, tell people they can't work, but hey tell people it's ok to protest?
> 
> 
> 
> In part because they went back to regular capacity, in another part because all of the patients that were scared to go to the hospital that had non-COVID related medical problems finally showed up sicker than a cat morphed into a bear.



Hey, I don't disagree.  This thing is been so weaponized and politicized it's crazy.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 13, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm paying attention to all of it.  But the amount of fear porn being circulated by people with their agenda is too much, tell people they can't work, but hey tell people it's ok to protest?
> 
> 
> 
> In part because they went back to regular capacity, in another part because all of the patients that were scared to go to the hospital that had non-COVID related medical problems finally showed up sicker than a cat morphed into a bear.



I get your first part I really do.

I can only speak to the two academic medical facilities I worked at. Duke increased capacity by opening new units. The hospital i travelled at did something similar. Both started seeing more elective patients in early to mid May. Idk where your experience with these way sicker patients is, but I didn’t witness that in either of my jobs(apart from COVID, and some of them were sicker than shit), one of which was in an cardiac surgery ICU(sickest patients in the hospital), the other of which was on a procedure team(seeing patients everywhere from outpatient to ICU settings). There was a pretty big wave of elective procedures right away in mid May and the clinics were busier, idk that they were “sicker than a cat morphed into a bear.” That is anecdotal though, for sure. I would love to see if that bares out statistically, like longer than average stays, worse outcomes and so forth, again though we will have to wait. But in my small slice of the south, and southwest it didn’t.

I did witness more despair in patients, and in healthcare workers than I’ve seen in 13 years of healthcare. Patients not being able to see family and friends, nurses with depression, being friendfamily and caregiver takes a significant toll, and empathy/sympathy gets drained quicker than you’d think. It is tough to have a dying patient, who’s family can only communicate via iPad. It is really tough to do that for 4 months-indefinitely... it is even more frustrating when patients and at risk folks do not believe that COVID is real. People refuse to wear masks, or even have the slightest amount of self awareness. It is frustrating for those of us who were legit on the frontlines of this thing and can vouch for the seriousness of the disease. I’m not saying you or anyone here is doing that, but it colors my stance on it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 13, 2020)

WHO: We won't immediately have a 'perfect vaccine,' and it is 'not realistic' to expect the virus will soon be eliminated

Obviously.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 13, 2020)

And this. 

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of coronavirus cover-up, flees Hong Kong: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'


----------



## AWP (Jul 14, 2020)

My wife has a friend who is an RN and tested positive for the 'Rona. After 8 days she has fatigue and loss of taste. That's it. Her coworker in her late 20's is on a ventilator.

This shit is so random.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 15, 2020)

So, this means no protests right?

Philadelphia prohibiting large public events through February 2021


----------



## CQB (Jul 15, 2020)

Let’s hope so. So far so good we’re I am. Reached for my face mask for the first time yesterday due to a high body count on public transport.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There is a "death lag, but if you look at the data from the CDC, we should have seen a steady "stream" of deaths based on the sheer number of cases we continued to have.  But we have not.


That is reasonable to assume when you ignore that the initial fatality spike was in relation to the rapid rise of deaths in high metropolitan areas like Detroit, New York City, Chicago, and New Jersey - all cities which have significantly curtailed both their infection and death rates in the past two months.  The second important factor is that the average age range of newly reported infections in America - largely across the southern United States and California - is 10-15 years younger than was reported at the start of the pandemic, and the difference is even more pronounced in some of the most recent hotspots like Florida, where the median infection age dropped from 65 in March to 35 in June.  This, along with increased reporting and testing, has resulted in rising infection rates, rising hospitalizations, and (eventually) rising but non-concurrent death rates, and particularly not to the same extent as when the average reported infection age was closer to the highest fatality age range (8 out of 10 COVID-19 deaths occur in those 65 and older).


----------



## TSUalum05 (Jul 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, this means no protests right?
> 
> Philadelphia prohibiting large public events through February 2021



From the article: 
"The prohibition does not apply to demonstrations and first amendment-related activites"


----------



## AWP (Jul 15, 2020)

TSUalum05 said:


> From the article:
> "The prohibition does not apply to demonstrations and first amendment-related activites"



HAHAHAHAHAHA! We're living a meme at this point.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHA! We're living a meme at this point.


Aren't pretty much all large public events technically first ammendment related activities?  Concerts, fairs, etc. all good to go. 😉👍


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 15, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That is reasonable to assume when you ignore that the initial fatality spike was in relation to the rapid rise of deaths in high metropolitan areas like Detroit, New York City, Chicago, and New Jersey - all cities which have significantly curtailed both their infection and death rates in the past two months.  The second important factor is that the average age range of newly reported infections in America - largely across the southern United States and California - is 10-15 years younger than was reported at the start of the pandemic, and the difference is even more pronounced in some of the most recent hotspots like Florida, where the median infection age dropped from 65 in March to 35 in June.  This, along with increased reporting and testing, has resulted in rising infection rates, rising hospitalizations, and (eventually) rising but non-concurrent death rates, and particularly not to the same extent as when the average reported infection age was closer to the highest fatality age range (8 out of 10 COVID-19 deaths occur in those 65 and older).


Excepting that hospital stays have been shorter and deaths haven't surged.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Excepting that hospital stays have been shorter and deaths haven't surged.


Of course.  The point of the above post was that the lack of a concurrent fatality rate surge with the infection surge (and, yes, the shorter hospital stays) reflects the younger age range of newest surge of the infected (who are far less prone to die from infections) and the significant drop in fatalities in the aforementioned metropolitan areas that were heavy contributors to the fatality spikes in the earlier phase of the pandemic.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 15, 2020)

All y'all yankees stay home!  We don't want you!

CDC chief says Northerners heading South for vacation may be to blame for surge in coronavirus cases, not state reopenings


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To that point, here is an interesting podcast from Michael Osterholm, he's been referenced numerous times earlier in this thread - overall, I'm still not a fan but on this topic he makes sense:
> Special Episode: Masks and Science
> 
> ^ You can listen to the podcast or read the transcript but among numerous interesting comments/observations, was this one from Osterholm:
> ...


More on masks. Interview with Osterholm:


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 20, 2020)

Some promising news. 

U.K. coronavirus vaccine prompts immune response in early test


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

This is the kind of shit that you should be uprising about in Louisville if you're doing anything!

Couple under house arrest after refusing to sign COVID-19 quarantine agreement

Article doesn't cover it, but I'm going to guess a threat of CPS becoming involved was used.  But this is FUCKED UP.


----------



## Dame (Jul 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is the kind of shit that you should be uprising about in Louisville if you're doing anything!
> Couple under house arrest after refusing to sign COVID-19 quarantine agreement
> Article doesn't cover it, but I'm going to guess a threat of CPS becoming involved was used.  But this is FUCKED UP.


Not getting tested now for sure. Way to go fuckers.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> Not getting tested now for sure. Way to go fuckers.



Why would this story deter you from getting tested?


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 20, 2020)

My father has two guys that work for him that weren't feeling well, so they went to one of the drive through testing facilities. Filled out the paperwork and then waited in line for 4 hours before a nurse came to the car and told them they had run out of tests for the day. She told them to come back the next day and would get expedited. They never went back... 7 days later they got results in the mail that they both were tested positive. This was orlando Florida.  

Basically.. my father is prepping for bankruptcy on one of his businesses because of this BS, but he's the greedy selfish person. My father isn't alone in this and his business is failing because of the government. Makes no sense.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> My father has two guys that work for him that weren't feeling well, so they went to one of the drive through testing facilities. Filled out the paperwork and then waited in line for 4 hours before a nurse came to the car and told them they had run out of tests for the day. She told them to come back the next day and would get expedited. They never went back... 7 days later they got results in the mail that they both were tested positive. This was orlando Florida.
> 
> Basically.. my father is prepping for bankruptcy on one of his businesses because of this BS, but he's the greedy selfish person. My father isn't alone in this and his business is failing because of the government. Makes no sense.



So they had positive results for tests they never had?


----------



## Dame (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Why would this story deter you from getting tested?


Because I will not subject myself to this insanity. It is unconstitutional.
Yes, tests are coming back "positive" when there are no tests or when there is no positive. Ask the CDC what happened. They know.
Barr: DOJ may side with citizens who sue states over 'onerous' coronavirus restrictions



> “Our federal constitutional rights don’t go away in an emergency. They constrain what the government can do,” Barr said in the Tuesday interview. “And in a circumstance like this, they put on the government the burden to make sure that whatever burdens it’s putting on our constitutional liberties are strictly necessary to deal with the problem. They have to be targeted. They have to use less intrusive means if they are equally effective in dealing with the problem. And that’s the situation we’re in today. We’re moving into a period where we have to do a better job of targeting the measures we’re deploying to deal with this virus.”


----------



## Florida173 (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> So they had positive results for tests they never had?



Yes, that is correct.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Yes, that is correct.



Was it reported? To the dept of health? The hospital system?


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> Because I will not subject myself to this insanity. It is unconstitutional.
> Yes, tests are coming back "positive" when there are no tests or when there is no positive. Ask the CDC what happened. They know.
> Barr: DOJ may side with citizens who sue states over 'onerous' coronavirus restrictions



Im not a constitutional law expert, so I won’t comment on that.

If you knew someone infected you knowing they were ill, would that be ok with you? I guess I only see it from a public health perspective, as I don’t have the requisite education to see it any other way.  To me, to be ill, not get tested, or be tested  then refuse to quarantine seems unconscionable. I just don’t get it.


----------



## Dame (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Im not a constitutional law expert, so I won’t comment on that.
> 
> If you knew someone infected you knowing they were ill, would that be ok with you? I guess I only see it from a public health perspective, as I don’t have the requisite education to see it any other way.  To me, to be ill, not get tested, or be tested  then refuse to quarantine seems unconscionable. I just don’t get it.


I see that.

So yes, when my son was ill in late January, it was OK with me. Even though I am "older" and may have caught it. Which I did. Whatever IT was. He was recently tested and was negative. That does not mean the test was correct. Did I say I would refuse to quarantine? Did the woman in Tennessee? No. You presume an awful lot about a person based on whether they decide these "tests" are worth the legal implications.

If I am ill, I stay home. That is part of being a responsible adult. Has anyone caught anything from me at work or home? No. Did I go into the grocery store? No. Do I believe that ankle bracelets might have been the answer to the black death or any other pandemic? No.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> I see that.
> 
> So yes, when my son was ill in late January, it was OK with me. Even though I am "older" and may have caught it. Which I did. Whatever IT was. He was recently tested and was negative. That does not mean the test was correct. Did I say I would refuse to quarantine? Did the woman in Tennessee? No. You presume an awful lot about a person based on whether they decide these "tests" are worth the legal implications.
> 
> If I am ill, I stay home. That is part of being a responsible adult. Has anyone caught anything from me at work or home? No. Did I go into the grocery store? No. Do I believe that ankle bracelets might have been the answer to the black death or any other pandemic? No.



I get that.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

@Dame i don’t mean to presume anything about you personally. I don’t know you, nor you me. I am speaking in generalizations. If that isn’t clear that is poor communication via an impersonal method on my part.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Im not a constitutional law expert, so I won’t comment on that.
> 
> If you knew someone infected you knowing they were ill, would that be ok with you? I guess I only see it from a public health perspective, as I don’t have the requisite education to see it any other way.  To me, to be ill, not get tested, or be tested  then refuse to quarantine seems unconscionable. I just don’t get it.





Dvr55119 said:


> Why would this story deter you from getting tested?



So you test positive, you don't like the language of paperwork presented in front of you.

The next day five cops are at your door and a guy in an NBC suit to forceably and I'd say illegally put an ankle monitor on you, I highly doubt you'd be good with it.  In some parts of this country that would be an ill-advised move.

Now me, unsure what I'd do.  But that health department and police department would be bankrupted by the legal settlement they'd have to pay me.  Some attorney that is freaking amazing will represent these people, [ s ]he'll take 66% of the settlement because they'll do it on contingency.  In fact this is a case perfect for the ACLU to go after the state government for.

This is akin to using a swat team to arrest Roger Stone. These tactics? That's totalitarian dictatorship type stuff.

She didn't commit a crime.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So you test positive, you don't like the language of paperwork presented in front of you.
> 
> The next day five cops are at your door and a guy in an NBC suit to forceably and I'd say illegally put an ankle monitor on you, I highly doubt you'd be good with it.  In some parts of this country that would be an ill-advised move.
> 
> ...



If I tested positive I would quarantine. I would readily do that as that is the right thing to do. I don’t think we are being presented with all the information, but in your scenario, that would never have happened to me as I would have quarantined myself and my family would have done the same. I do believe the state government has every right to enforce public health in situations such as these. Here is a link I found, I don’t know if it is biased, or untrustworthy, but it seems like a legit organization:

Responsibilities in a Public Health Emergency


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2020)

Me, I use logic, and I play the odds. If I get sick, I know the cluster of symptoms which would make it probable for chronovirus or likely in a differential diagnosis. I also know at what point I should probably see a physician, versus when I can probably treat myself at home.

But I'm not going to get a test unless I have to go to the hospital, otherwise the knowledge is just a burden.

Now if there were a commonly prescribed medicine, then yeah, I'd get tested so I can get the medicine. But since for 95% of the cases it is supportive care, I just don't see the point.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Here is an interesting snippet, again I’m not an expert, so my opinion is just going off of reading the interpretation of the law by those experts:

Police powers were reserved in the federal constitution  for states’ use when needed for the preservation of the common good. When applied, they allow states to pass and enforce isolation and quarantine, health, and inspections laws to interrupt or prevent the spread of disease.https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/public-health-chart.aspx#_edn1_ See Medtronic, Inc. v. Lohr, 518 U.S. 470, 475 (1996) ("Throughout our history the several states have exercised their police powers to protect the health and safety of their citizens. Because these are primarily, and historically, matters of local concern, the states traditionally have had great latitude under their police powers to legislate as to the protection of the lives, limbs, health, comfort, and quiet of all persons." (internal citations omitted)); Black’s Law Dictionary 1196 (8`H ED. 2004); Ernst Freund, The Police Power: Public Policy and Constitutional Rights iii, 3 (1904). The police power supports the authority of a state to enact and enforce “health laws of every description.” Jacobson, supra, 197 U.S. at 25._


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 20, 2020)

There's a difference, she didn't refuse to quarantine.  She refused to sign the paperwork. MAJOR FREAKING DIFFERENCE.

Ky. couple put on house arrest after not signing COVID-19 self-isolation order


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Me, I use logic, and I play the odds. If I get sick, I know the cluster of symptoms which would make it probable for chronovirus or likely in a differential diagnosis. I also know at what point I should probably see a physician, versus when I can probably treat myself at home.
> 
> But I'm not going to get a test unless I have to go to the hospital, otherwise the knowledge is just a burden.
> 
> Now if there were a commonly prescribed medicine, then yeah, I'd get tested so I can get the medicine. But since for 95% of the cases it is supportive care, I just don't see the point.



Would you go to your job? At the hospital?


----------



## Dame (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> @Dame i don’t mean to presume anything about you personally. I don’t know you, nor you me. I am speaking in generalizations. If that isn’t clear that is poor communication via an impersonal method on my part.


Which is exactly my point. 

Everyone has an opinion on what John Q Public "should" be doing to keep everyone else "safe." Please, I beg you (_*and everyone*_) to remember that you have no idea what someone else is going through or has been through during this time. You have no idea if the "positive" result was even the result of an actual test. This is the Super Bowl of the germ infestation game and the CDC and WHO did not even suit up when it arrived. The medical professionals who deal with this have enough on their hands without trying to figure out legalities. So local governments have decided to flex their muscles and overstep their bounds. Well, I will have _none_ of it.

From your posted article: "In addition, the federal government may assist with or take over the management of an intrastate incident if requested by a state or if the federal government determines local efforts are inadequate.[iii] Federal government leadership response roles are shared between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Once a federal declaration of emergency has been issued, state law will be preempted to the extent that they conflict with federal law."

I believe AG Barr is more of a Constitutional scholar than either of us. That lady in TN has no symptoms. She took responsibly for the mere possibility that she might have infected her older relatives. And as thanks for that her family is now under house arrest. I hope she and her family kick the everlovin' shit out of the local gorillas and I hope Barr has a hand in it.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jul 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There's a difference, she didn't refuse to quarantine.  She refused to sign the paperwork. MAJOR FREAKING DIFFERENCE.
> 
> Ky. couple put on house arrest after not signing COVID-19 self-isolation order



I don’t know how to say more clearly that I don’t know the law. If they implemented a law that requires then to sign a statement of quarantine, and they don’t then it makes sense. I do not know that it is the case.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Would you go to your job? At the hospital?



No. I would stay home.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 20, 2020)

My neighbor woke up a couple weeks ago with supposedly a tremendous amount of pain in his big toe; so much so that he called his doctor (insert all kinds of smart ass comments here...I did). The doc tells him to come in immediately and get checked for "Covid Toe". I'm like, you gotta be shitting me, right? Nope, a real thing, evidently.

So, he goes in and they administer a test.  Tell him results should be back in about 48 hours. Well a couple days go by and he hears nothing.  In the meantime, his toe pain has completely gone away (gone the following morning, I guess) but his wife, a veterinarian, now has to stay home because her husband was tested and they can't risk spreading the virus until he's confirmed negative.  So, he calls the doc.  They tell him, well there's a back up at the lab and we won't have results for at least another EIGHT days! 

Well, now he's like, that's 10 total days, minimum. At that point, chances are, if he had the virus, it's already manifested itself and he's either mild or in the hospital, but now he has no pain or systems and is wondering why he even got tested?  He'd been self quarantining from his family since first making the doctor appointment.  If he hadn't tested, his wife could've continued working.  On day, 12  they got back to him with test results: negative.

This whole thing is pretty crazy.


----------



## CQB (Jul 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There's a difference, she didn't refuse to quarantine.  She refused to sign the paperwork. MAJOR FREAKING DIFFERENCE.
> 
> Ky. couple put on house arrest after not signing COVID-19 self-isolation order


I’d say they were preserving the common good.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 21, 2020)

CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing

This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:



> In six months since the virus emerged, the CDC said “there have been no confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection.”



Would that indicate immunity after recovering from your first infection? Or is it just sheer luck that they never caught it again?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing
> 
> This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:
> 
> ...



I don't know, but if you recall, MERS and SARS basically just went away.  All vaccines that were developed and tested never gained approval from the FDA.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 21, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing
> 
> This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:
> 
> ...



That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low.   So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low.   So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.



Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection.  There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection.  There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.



It is definitely along a continuum, everything from no symptoms, to traditional symptoms, to non-traditional symptoms (i.e., "big toe" aforementioned), to critical care.  A piece of research I read followed a cohort of COVID-positive, symptomatic people with a range of clinical presentations, following their antibodies at specific intervals after testing positive.  Almost in every case, antibodies decreased; in some cases, there weren't antibodies.  

I would be curious to see the same thing in people who test positive but were/are asymptomatic.

There are articles 2 months old (COVID-19 Reinfection: Myth or Truth?) suggesting that reinfection is not occurring; however, we _may_ be seeing people with a different strain as it evolves (_a la_, the flu).

Also from CDC:  "There are no data concerning the possibility of re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 after recovery from COVID-19. While viral RNA shedding declines with resolution of symptoms, it may continue for days to weeks.34,38,45 However, the detection of RNA during convalescence does not necessarily indicate the presence of viable infectious virus. Clinical infection has been correlated with the detection of IgM and IgG antibodies.46-49 However, definitive data are lacking, and it remains uncertain whether individuals with antibodies are protected against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2, and if so, what concentration of antibodies is needed to confer protection."

So my questions (I have so many...) 1) what methods are used to determine test results? (i.e., uniformity/consistency)  2) do all testing methods have the same level of reliability?  3) how sensitive are the tests, and do all tests have the same sensitivity? (in that, if I got one particle out of a million, is that going to read positive, whereas your test, you would be negative?).

Every day my skepticism meter goes higher.  It's not that I don't trust; it's that, and also that new data is emerging all the time, changing what we know.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 21, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> CDC updates coronavirus guidelines on isolation, testing
> 
> This little line at the end of the article caught my eye:
> 
> ...


According to that article, it seems more to indicate that there were too many uncontrollable factors influencing the cases of supposed COVID-19 relapses they studied for them to confirm any of them as indisputable reinfections.


Devildoc said:


> That is a great question and I do not know. I do know that a lot of research is showing that antibodies have decreased over time, and a lot of people who had high levels of antibodies either have none or they are just very low.   So based on that, I don't know that they're getting immunity.


Dr. "Doom & Gloom" himself confirmed recently that COVID-19 antibodies do in fact confer immunity, but that it is still unclear as to how long it lasts and what factors affect the length of that immunity from person to person.


ThunderHorse said:


> Well, it's important to note that exposure does not equate to infection.  There are many people out there now (considering the number of confirmed tests) that have easily been exposed and are at a minimum asymptomatic if not uninfected at all.


I believe @Devildoc was referring specifically to people who were infected, confirmed to have antibodies, and then shown to have reduced numbers of antibodies over time.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I believe @Devildoc was referring specifically to people who were infected, confirmed to have antibodies, and then shown to have reduced numbers of antibodies over time.



Yes I understand.  It was more of a general comment that just because you may be exposed again, doesn't mean that you will become infected.  Whether you have previously been infected or previously had no exposure.


----------



## AWP (Jul 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Every day my skepticism meter goes higher.  It's not that I don't trust; it's that, and also that new data is emerging all the time, changing what we know.



Not that anyone here has stated the numbers are bullshit...

You're in the thick of it and seeing some of the worst possible. I will not under any circumstances discount your experience. I also will not trust the offical numbers even if they fit with your experience, because as you know the world is a much larger sample size.

I won't say we've been lied to (though I have my suspicions), but as a layman I think the data is too incomplete to make the decisions we have made.

I hope to live long enough to know which side was right.


----------



## 757 (Jul 21, 2020)

To piggyback off of what @Florida173 said, my brother in law and his fiance just drove up from the Tampa area to visit this past week and reported similar things happening (people never being tested and reports coming back positive) to people he and his fiance knew. On top of that, false-positives are also a real thing.

"Connecticut’s State Public Health Laboratory has uncovered a flaw in one of the testing systems it uses to test for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The flaw, which has been reported to both the manufacturer and the federal Food and Drug Administration, led to *90 of 144* people tested during June 15–July 17, 2020 receiving a false positive COVID test report." *Bolded for emphasis* -source

Fear is an incredibly powerful motivator and can drive otherwise rational people to extreme ends. Mild example: toilet paper. Extreme example: burning "witches" in New England.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 22, 2020)

I don't know if this means the virus only comes out after 10PM or if you can't get plastered by 10, you ain't trying...the demographic this edict is targeted to is the demographic that elected him...

Last call for alcohol in Colorado will be 10 p.m., Gov. Jared Polis orders in latest salvo against COVID-19


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> I don't know if this means the virus only comes out after 10PM or if you can't get plastered by 10, you ain't trying...the demographic this edict is targeted to is the demographic that elected him...
> 
> Last call for alcohol in Colorado will be 10 p.m., Gov. Jared Polis orders in latest salvo against COVID-19



Hate because that is just plain dumb.

Not directed at you @Steve1839


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 22, 2020)

So...you're telling me the problem is Obesity.  I mean, I knew that. 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...89-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext#seccesectitle0013


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> I don't know if this means the virus only comes out after 10PM or if you can't get plastered by 10, you ain't trying...the demographic this edict is targeted to is the demographic that elected him...
> 
> Last call for alcohol in Colorado will be 10 p.m., Gov. Jared Polis orders in latest salvo against COVID-19



Yea, its unfortunately those in their college years/20s that brought this about.

Clubs/bars in downtown Colorado Springs were basically unable to enforce any sort of policies or separation after 2230-2300ish (from what I saw).

More than a few times a saw some frat bros/boots from Carson try to fight with security for being told to distance.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 22, 2020)

I'm going to start cutting holes in doors and walls around the house. 

PHYSICAL DISTANCING?: B.C. health agency touts ‘glory holes’ for safer pandemic sex


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I'm going to start cutting holes in doors and walls around the house.
> 
> PHYSICAL DISTANCING?: B.C. health agency touts ‘glory holes’ for safer pandemic sex


Fortunately for you, they won’t have to be very big holes 😂


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 22, 2020)

Masks required in MN at all public places effect Saturday. You must wear a mask walking to your restaurant table, but may remove them once seated.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jul 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...you're telling me the problem is Obesity.  I mean, I knew that.
> 
> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...89-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext#seccesectitle0013



This does not detour me from my 40 inch waist goal.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Fortunately for you, they won’t have to be very big holes 😂



I was surprised my wife didn't make a similar smart ass comment.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Masks required in MN at all public places effect Saturday. You must wear a mask walking to your restaurant table, but may remove them once seated.



We've had the order here in Dane County for nearly two weeks.

For better or worse, nobody is really complying. Only one business has been fined (267$).

It seems to be getting to the point of protesting the order more than anything.

Personal observations.


----------



## Dame (Jul 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> I don't know if this means the virus only comes out after 10PM or if you can't get plastered by 10, you ain't trying...the demographic this edict is targeted to is the demographic that elected him...
> Last call for alcohol in Colorado will be 10 p.m., Gov. Jared Polis orders in latest salvo against COVID-19



He just wants their mommies to come get them.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 22, 2020)

Dame said:


> He just wants their mommies to come get them.


I wish his mommy would come get him


----------



## Scarecrow (Jul 22, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I'm going to start cutting holes in doors and walls around the house.


They didn’t mean for it to be an income mate..


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 23, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> They didn’t mean for it to be an income mate..



Times are tough...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 23, 2020)

Juan Soto had a nasal swab, the test said he was positive.  He took multiple tests today that showed him as negative.  So, yeah, why the hell are we sending 5 cops and a dude in an NBC suit to a private citzen's house?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286424159120248832


----------



## Kraut783 (Jul 23, 2020)

Who's Juan Soto?

Edit: ah, baseball player. Heh, kinda forgot about sports....


----------



## AWP (Jul 24, 2020)

Makes you wonder how many "asymptomatic" patients were false positives from the beginning...


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> Makes you wonder how many "asymptomatic" patients were false positives from the beginning...


The consistency/quality of these hastily delivered tests and their administration has been a question from day 1. I'm of the belief the virus is very widespread. However, I'm also of the belief that for most, it's not nearly the harbinger of death that some are making it out to be.

As government responses often are, many  of the actions being taken truly aren't being done so as part of an actual effective response for controlling the spread but rather to make people feel better about having some type of visible action to something they're helpless against.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 24, 2020)

Dies in Car accident...COVID death. 

I-Team: Deaths incorrectly attributed to COVID-19 in Palm Beach County


----------



## Rabid Badger (Jul 24, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The consistency/quality of these hastily delivered tests and their administration has been a question from day 1. I'm of the belief the virus is very widespread. However, I'm also of the belief that for most, it's not nearly the harbinger of death that some are making it out to be.
> 
> As government responses often are, many  of the actions being taken truly aren't being done so as part of an actual effective response for controlling the spread but rather to make people feel better about having some type of visible action to something they're helpless against.



The GLOBAL news you won't hear or read about: "*Millions* WORLDWIDE *recover* from COVID-19. RIP to the unnecessary US 140,000 deaths thanks to China's mis-handling of a deadly contagious virus."

Closer to home yet 7000 miles away, my sisters in law, 2 of them, have the virus, both in Argentina. Not the best or easiest place in the world to recover from it. My wife's {our} head(s) is/are exploding because the borders are closed. No travel for awhile. Comms are sketchy.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 24, 2020)

The gospel on cloth mask's by Dr. Osterholm. 

COMMENTARY: My views on cloth face coverings for the public for preventing COVID-19


----------



## Dame (Jul 25, 2020)

I just want to thank this guy, whoever he is.
Man parades down Oxford Street wearing nothing but mask


----------



## AWP (Jul 25, 2020)

Not the hero we need, but the hero we deserve.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 25, 2020)

Dame said:


> Because I will not subject myself to this insanity. It is unconstitutional.


As with the rioters in Portland, you're perfectly free to do things that legally compel authorities to give you up-close-and-personal treatment.

Just as the Kentucky couple did.

Title 902, Chapter 2, Section 50 of the Kentucky Administrative Regulations:
“Section 2. Persons. Whenever any person has been implicated as a possible reservoir or possible source of infection of any communicable disease, the local health department or the Cabinet for Human Resources shall employ such measures as are necessary to secure adequate isolation, restriction of employment or other control procedures that may be necessary to insure cessation of transmission of infection.”

and

Chapter 212, Section 245(6) of the Kentucky Revised Statutes:
“County, city-county, and district health departments may:
(6) Issue written orders directed to the owner or occupant of any property, or to any person, firm, or corporation whatever, commanding, within the time and manner specified in the order, compliance with applicable public health laws of this state and all regulations of the Cabinet for Health and Family Services or the county board of health. Notwithstanding the provisions of this section and KRS 212.210, any health officer may institute and maintain mandatory or prohibitory injunction proceedings in the appropriate Circuit Courts of this state to abate nuisances that are or may be a menace to the health of the people of the state or community, and to compel compliance with the public health laws of this state and the rules and regulations of the Cabinet for Health and Family Services and the county board of health and the orders described in this section or in KRS 212.210.”

Moral of the story:  If you don't like it, leave.  

More specifically:  Learn your local and state laws in advance, so that if you don't agree with them you can move someplace else before they restrict you from doing exactly that during a public health crisis.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

If only county executives and city mayors enforced the laws on rioters as they do on people that got swabbed in their shnoz. 

/snark


----------



## Muppet (Jul 25, 2020)

Horowitz: Exposing the maskerade: The questions every American should be asking about indefinite mask mandates

Good write up...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 25, 2020)

Strippers are essential for the night before a Funeral.  Why is it relevant?  Because the NBA is in a bubble. 

Lou Williams Admits He Went to Atlanta Strip Club With Rapper While Away from NBA Bubble


----------



## Muppet (Jul 25, 2020)

Plainclothes Miami cops ticket people who don't wear masks, fine anyone who doesn't wear face coverings properly

Then, there's this. How far are we straying???


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 25, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> As with the rioters in Portland, you're perfectly free to do things that legally compel authorities to give you up-close-and-personal treatment.
> 
> Just as the Kentucky couple did.
> 
> ...


You can not be compelled to sign anything that may be used against you.
That pesky 5th amendment.

Telling people to leave if they don't like it is pretty severe. Socialism much?


----------



## Dame (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> As with the rioters in Portland, you're perfectly free to do things that legally compel authorities to give you up-close-and-personal treatment.
> Title 902, Chapter 2, Section 50 of the Kentucky Administrative Regulations:
> “Section 2. Persons. Whenever any person has been implicated as a possible reservoir or possible source of infection of any communicable disease, the local health department or the Cabinet for Human Resources shall employ such measures as are necessary to secure adequate isolation, restriction of employment or other control procedures that may be necessary to insure cessation of transmission of infection.”
> Chapter 212, Section 245(6) of the Kentucky Revised Statutes:
> ...


I had no idea not signing something without legal representation made me a rioter.
Federal HIPAA laws and 5th Amendment trump this.
Let me know when they start putting folks with herpes diagnosis under house arrest.

As for leaving, LOL, I stay to make change and right wrongs. It's what I do. Ask anyone who knows me.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 26, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> You can not be compelled to sign anything that may be used against you.


Of course.  You are entirely free to subject yourself to enforcement of the provisions of a judge-appointed court order by indicating your refusal to comply with it.





DA SWO said:


> Telling people to leave if they don't like it is pretty severe. Socialism much?




You should ask him yourself.


Dame said:


> I had no idea not signing something without legal representation made me a rioter.


Me neither.  How did you infer that from my statement that rioters and people who communicate their refusal to comply with court orders both legally obligate authorities to give them up-close-and-personal treatment?.





Dame said:


> Let me know when they start putting folks with herpes diagnosis under house arrest.


I'm afraid you'll have to wait until herpes expands past oral/anal/genital skin-to-skin contact into airborne and surface contact transmission.


----------



## AWP (Jul 26, 2020)

My wife's friend that is an RN, I think I mentioned how she had the 'Rona. Anyway, her 14 days are up and she's back at work. 

- There's growing skepticism among the doctors and nurses that the numbers they are reporting are the same being reported to the CDC. Like the motorcyclist who crashed and died but was reported as a CV-19 fatality, the books are being cooked somewhere.

- Their hospital sent off test swabs that were never used...and they tested positive for the 'Rona. This has happened on multple occasions.

- The hospital is quietly practicing herd immunity on its staff. They are rotating staff through the CV-19 ward/ area whatever you call it until they get it, then once recovered they go off to do their old jobs.

I can't say it enough, the numbers are bullshit. The disease is bad, I won't shit on that, but the statistics being thrown around are pure trash.


----------



## Dame (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Of course.  You are entirely free to subject yourself to enforcement of the provisions of a judge-appointed court order by indicating your refusal to comply with it.
> 
> View attachment 34985
> You should ask him yourself.
> Me neither.  How did you infer that from my statement that rioters and people who communicate their refusal to comply with court orders both legally obligate authorities to give them up-close-and-personal treatment?.I'm afraid you'll have to wait until herpes expands past oral/anal/genital skin-to-skin contact into airborne and surface contact transmission.


Because you made the comparison.
"As with the rioters in Portland..."
Why bring it up?


----------



## CQB (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> As with the rioters in Portland, you're perfectly free to do things that legally compel authorities to give you up-close-and-personal treatment.
> 
> Just as the Kentucky couple did.
> 
> ...


We have similar here, it’s fundamental that ‘the state’ has whatever power is necessary to mitigate the risk when the risk is realized.


----------



## Dame (Jul 26, 2020)

AWP said:


> My wife's friend that is an RN, I think I mentioned how she had the 'Rona. Anyway, her 14 days are up and she's back at work.
> 
> - There's growing skepticism among the doctors and nurses that the numbers they are reporting are the same being reported to the CDC. Like the motorcyclist who crashed and died but was reported as a CV-19 fatality, the books are being cooked somewhere.
> 
> ...


This is the crux of it. The honest truth of what is going on.
This isn't a proven population of Typhoid Marys running around being irresponsible. Most people are being very responsible for themselves. The fact is, the tests are inaccurate. But the consequences are very real.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 26, 2020)

Dame said:


> Because you made the comparison.
> "As with the rioters in Portland..."


This is about as logical as concluding that Christians are Muslims from the statement, "As with the Muslims, you are free to worship a single deity.  Just as the Christians did."





Dame said:


> Why bring it up?


Because they are another recent but perhaps more obvious example of people doing things that legally compel authorities to give them up-close-and-personal treatment.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 26, 2020)

CQB said:


> We have similar here, it’s fundamental that ‘the state’ has whatever power is necessary to mitigate the risk when the risk is realized.


"Liked" just to acknowledge that this tracks with my understanding of the public acceptance and approval of state-led responses to public security and health risks in Commonwealth nations, and that the culturally ingrained and well-intended resistance to state-led control measures in the United States can sometimes backfire in more serious and widespread situations like health pandemics.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> This is about as logical as concluding that Christians are Muslims from the statement, "As with the Muslims, you are free to worship a single deity.  Just as the Christians did."Because they are another recent but perhaps more obvious example of people doing things that legally compel authorities to give them up-close-and-personal treatment.


Actual Crimes being committed vs someone unwilling to sign a piece of paper because they disagree with the legal language.  Yeah, the judge put out an order, cool, where's the indictment? (there isn't one because there was no crime) This gets thrown out every day of the week.

Now back to the NBA:


ThunderHorse said:


> Strippers are essential for the night before a Funeral.  Why is it relevant?  Because the NBA is in a bubble.
> 
> Lou Williams Admits He Went to Atlanta Strip Club With Rapper While Away from NBA Bubble



So I guess Magic City gets to stay open because they're a restaurant.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287387486356942848
Steak and Lobster only $25!

https://www.magiccity.com/kitchen-menu/


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Actual Crimes being committed vs someone unwilling to sign a piece of paper because they disagree with the legal language.  Yeah, the judge put out an order, cool, where's the indictment? (there isn't one because there was no crime) This gets thrown out every day of the week.


There is a difference between what I posted and your focus on whether or not a person must be charged with a crime in order for authorities to be legally authorized to issue up-close-and-personal treatment.


----------



## AWP (Jul 26, 2020)

Orlando... we're like Vegas and all of life's regrets, but without the cool stories.

"This fucking stripper..."
-----
"Anyway, that's when Mickey..."
----
Orlando's just low key gangster.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> There is a difference between what I posted and your focus on whether or not a person must be charged with a crime in order for authorities to be legally authorized to issue up-close-and-personal treatment.


Ankle bracelets are normally used for those out on bail.  Ordered by a Judge, can you find which Judge ordered the ankle bracelet?
They can be ordered to quarantine, but the bracelets should not have been issued unless a quarantine violation occurred. Did they break quarantine?


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 26, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Ankle bracelets are normally used for those out on bail.  Ordered by a Judge, can you find which Judge ordered the ankle bracelet?
> They can be ordered to quarantine, but the bracelets should not have been issued unless a quarantine violation occurred. Did they break quarantine?


Judge Ken Howard.

Enjoy.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 26, 2020)

Yeah, that judge is an ass.  I also remember when I had Soldiers going to Lincoln Trail for Mental Health counseling because Knox did not have psychologists.  Let's just say I wouldn't trust Lincoln Trail Health District to take a dump when they have diarrhea swelling in their sphincter.


----------



## DA SWO (Jul 26, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Judge Ken Howard.
> 
> Enjoy.





ThunderHorse said:


> Yeah, that judge is an ass.  I also remember when I had Soldiers going to Lincoln Trail for Mental Health counseling because Knox did not have psychologists.  Let's just say I wouldn't trust Lincoln Trail Health District to take a dump when they have diarrhea swelling in their sphincter.


If the individuals went out knowing they were covid positive, then the authorities acted appropriately.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2020)

So this happens:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287923014047272960


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So this happens:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287923014047272960


The tweet you posted was scrubbed. What was in it?

Also anyone have an idea of how to archive tweets?


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2020)

AWP said:


> My wife's friend that is an RN, I think I mentioned how she had the 'Rona. Anyway, her 14 days are up and she's back at work.
> 
> - There's growing skepticism among the doctors and nurses that the numbers they are reporting are the same being reported to the CDC. Like the motorcyclist who crashed and died but was reported as a CV-19 fatality, the books are being cooked somewhere.
> 
> ...



Point one, check.  I think I have mentioned on here we stopped looking at national numbers, and to a large extent state numbers.  We have our own on-house epidemiology and ID folks keeping track of us and the surrounding areas.

Point two, that hasn't happened with us.  Our admin have put in so many checks/balances to prevent purposeful or unpurposeful fraudulent reporting.

Point three, What.  The.  Fuck.  I would spin up my favorite attorney of choice and make so much noise.  That is unethical, and maybe illegal.

Regarding house arrest and contagious diseases, we've seen it done with tuberculosis.  In my grad school public health classes the case law was far from settled, and the courts were generally uneasy about doing it, seeing the slippery slope of eroding civil liberties.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 28, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> The tweet you posted was scrubbed. What was in it?
> 
> Also anyone have an idea of how to archive tweets?


There was a video dubbed the "white coat summit".  Where a few doctors who went to testify in front of Congress to talk about Hydroxychloroquine talked at the Capital saying it works.  Facebook is continuously pulling the video saying it's false information.  

One of my idiot friends was like: if you think doctors are that poorly spoken then you're an idiot...literally the group of doctors had an immigrant that was on most of the video. I called him out for his soft racism.

Trump Jr's twitter account was also suspended for retweeting the video because it's "misinformation".  How is it misinformation HCQ+Zinc+Zythromax have worked on hundreds and hundreds of patients?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288101467581227011
So Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter are now controlling all information.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There was a video dubbed the "white coat summit".  Where a few doctors who went to testify in front of Congress to talk about Hydroxychloroquine talked at the Capital saying it works.  Facebook is continuously pulling the video saying it's false information.
> 
> One of my idiot friends was like: if you think doctors are that poorly spoken then you're an idiot...literally the group of doctors had an immigrant that was on most of the video. I called him out for his soft racism.
> 
> ...


Well fuck... that is insane. Hope to god those companies get their collective dicks slapped. Cause what they're doing is straight outta the Chicom censorship playbook. People censoring data need to hang or at the very least face charges.

Thank you for spreading the word. Did not know any of this.


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Jul 28, 2020)

Woohoo!!! I'm just a dumbass welder/fitter/HEO. Not tech savvy, don't do social media. Just SS, OAN and some FOX some Dennis Prager. Anyways, my niece is a parole officer around Gaston, Mecklenburg Counties NC. She got the Kung Flu having to go make sure the trash is behaving and staying n the trash can. Fuckin pisses me off. Kid at the campground taught me how to use wi-fi. Love me some SS


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Jul 28, 2020)




----------



## AWP (Jul 28, 2020)

If the stats are bullshit...what else is questionable? If you can't trust simple numbers like x have the diesase, y died from the disease...how do you trust the rest of the story? Oh, the stats are wrong, but the research data is right? Yeah, hard pass from me.

Even the truth is lies because how do you trust the rest?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 28, 2020)

Found a video that sums up the politicization of hydroxycholoroquine and fear mongering.







Link to summit talk that's being censored by twitter, facebook, etc. (video quality is low though)
News Vault


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> There was a video dubbed the "white coat summit".  Where a few doctors who went to testify in front of Congress to talk about Hydroxychloroquine talked at the Capital saying it works.  Facebook is continuously pulling the video saying it's false information.
> 
> One of my idiot friends was like: if you think doctors are that poorly spoken then you're an idiot...literally the group of doctors had an immigrant that was on most of the video. I called him out for his soft racism.
> 
> ...



Maybe don't take medical advice from someone who thinks Demon sperm and witches give women gynecological problems in their sleep, that alien DNA is mixed with vaccines, asked Faucci to give her his urine to prove he was taking medication secretly, and said God would shut down Facebook's computers.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Maybe don't take medical advice from someone who thinks Demon sperm and witches give women gynecological problems in their sleep, that alien DNA is mixed with vaccines, asked Faucci to give her his urine to prove he was taking medication secretly, and said God would shut down Facebook's computers.



Nice hit piece, next.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Nice hit piece, next.



Reports on Dr with history of saying crazy shit is a hit piece?

Cool. If someone is going to represent themselves as an authority figure on a topic, their background and experience is important to understand.

I may be wrong, but I don't know how common it is for a pediatrician to treat hundreds of patients out of a Christian resource center.



> Immanuel is a licensed pediatrician in the State of Texas, according to the Texas Medical Board.
> 
> Her practice address is listed as 6278 Highway 6 South in Houston, which Google Maps data shows is also the location of Fire Power Ministries Christian Resource Center, a ministry which is headed by Immanuel.




Report: Texas doctor who went viral with unproven COVID-19 cure believes in 'demon sperm'


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 28, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Reports on Dr with history of saying crazy shit is a hit piece?
> 
> Cool. If someone is going to represent themselves as an authority figure on a topic, their background and experience is important to understand.
> 
> ...



Yes, a licensed pediatrician in Texas and Louisiana. Also an Emergency Physician in Texas.  Doctors tend to be "contractors" rather than direct employees to hospitals. At least that's the way it is in California.

So I doubt she's treating any of her COVID-19 patients at her practice, and most likely is treating them at the hospital she's got a contract with.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2020)

I don't like her and I don't believe her, but people are weaponizing her using that fallacy that if she's wrong about some things, she must be wrong about all things.


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Nice hit piece, next.


I'd be prone to call it that too if the information was very obviously exaggerated or inaccurate.

And then I found this.
Viral sensation Dr. Stella Immanuel says Jesus will destroy Facebook if her COVID video doesn’t go back up

"She refers to herself as “God’s battle axe and weapon of war” and *claims that medical issues like endometriosis, cysts, infertility, and impotence are caused by sex with “spirit husbands” and “spirit wives,”* a phenomenon described essentially as witches and demons having sexual intercourse with people in a dreamworld.
*“They turn into a woman and then they sleep with the man and collect his sperm,” Immanuel said, according to the outlet. “Then they turn into the man and they sleep with a man and deposit the sperm and reproduce more of themselves.”*
“They are responsible for serious gynecological problems,” Immanuel said. “We call them all kinds of names — endometriosis, we call them molar pregnancies, we call them fibroids, we call them cysts, but most of them are evil deposits from the spirit husband,” Immanuel said in 2013. *“They are responsible for miscarriages, impotence — men that can’t get it up.”"*

....

I mean, it is entirely possible that doctor whose unironic medical explanation for endometriosis is demon sex has coincidentally found a COVID-19 cure in an already disproven drug by multiple medical authorities.

It is much more likely that Minister Farrakhan has just found his spirit wife.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I don't like her and I don't believe her, but people are weaponizing her using that fallacy that if she's wrong about some things, she must be wrong about all things.



"Wrong about some things" isn't claiming demons cause endometriosis.

When somebody is spouting of stuff at that level of crazy, I don't think it's a fallacy to take that into account.

Now, if the only thing reported about her was her ministry being patucularly vile about LGBT+ people or her being a a Trump supporter (like some sources honed in on) I wouldn't use/accept that to discredit her.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I'd be prone to call it that too if the information was very obviously exaggerated or inaccurate.
> 
> And then I found this.
> Viral sensation Dr. Stella Immanuel says Jesus will destroy Facebook if her COVID video doesn’t go back up
> ...



Yeah, that's a bit out there.  But maybe it's because I've been deployed, spent time in third-world places working shoulder to shoulder with indigs and local providers, but I'm just like "whatevs".  That doesn't move my needle too much.  That said, I've my own opinions about HQQ.


----------



## AWP (Jul 28, 2020)

The last person in their class at West Point is still a 2LT. The last person in their class at med school is still a doctor. A title doesn't mean they know what they are doing. How many lawyers pass the bar exam, but have no clue how to apply the law? All journalisms students take a class in ethics, so of course all journalists are ethical...


----------



## Dame (Jul 29, 2020)

Good on this Canuk hotel for thinking outside the box to save jobs and maybe an entire industry.

(Warning: Turn down your speakers. Annoying ad first.)
Work from Hotel Packages


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 29, 2020)

Dame said:


> Good on this Canuk hotel for thinking outside the box to save jobs and maybe an entire industry.
> 
> (Warning: Turn down your speakers. Annoying ad first.)
> Work from Hotel Packages



It's sad to see what the virus is doing to our tourism industry.  Hospitality industry as a whole.  Montréal is a beautiful city and has some amazing hotel's.


----------



## AWP (Jul 30, 2020)

On the bright side, in the UAE hotels and resorts are practically fighting each other for your business. We just upgraded from a room to a one bedroom apartment for less per month.


----------



## GOTWA (Jul 30, 2020)

AWP said:


> On the bright side, in the UAE hotels and resorts are practically fighting each other for your business. We just upgraded from a room to a one bedroom apartment for less per month.


How do you even survive in such conditions?


----------



## Zachary6847 (Jul 30, 2020)

I just hope the ORM thats being implemented on bases keeps working.


----------



## AWP (Jul 30, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How do you even survive in such conditions?



It is tough, but after 9 years in Afghanistan I'm comfortable with the struggle...


----------



## Locksteady (Jul 30, 2020)

Wow.  Rest in peace.

"Herman Cain, a business executive and former Republican presidential candidate, has died after contracting the novel coronavirus. He was 74 years old.

The prominent conservative businessman was hospitalised weeks after he attended President Donald Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on 20 June, where he served as a surrogate for the Black Voices for Trump committee.

Cain had been critically ill with Covid-19 for several weeks, after being admitted to hospital in early July and receiving oxygen."

Herman Cain dies from coronavirus after being hospitalised following Trump's Tulsa rally


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Jul 30, 2020)

Dammed if u do or dammed if you don't. I personally believe in a (my) higher power. Grew up going to Church every Sunday and most Wednesdays. Going less and less through the decade's. Still will go occasionally. Try to live right, treat people right. Good people anyway. Stay away from others. Worked hard for what I've earned. Never asked for a handout. I believe the saying, " when your# is called your time has come" or "your fate has already béen decided". Don't get me wrong I wear a gator sleeve doubled up over my nose and mouth if I'm having to interact with someone. Sanitizer is always on my person. I try to avoid crowds inside. At work at the beginning of my shift I spray down joysticks, switches, buttons, radio anything  I touch with a water/bleach mix. After Fauchi admitted to the lie on the ppe/masks and talk of inflated numbers everyday I do not believe what I see. I argue with the wife we've got to live, we've got to go on and live as normal as possible. If we get it we will be sick awhile (like bypass) I think it was. Will we die from it? I hope not. If we do our number was called. I'm work 5 sometimes 7 12 hr days unless it's too muddy and/or raining , so I prepare for the worse and hope/pray for the best.


----------



## Dame (Jul 30, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Wow.  Rest in peace.
> "Herman Cain, a business executive and former Republican presidential candidate, has died after contracting the novel coronavirus. He was 74 years old.
> The prominent conservative businessman was hospitalised weeks after he attended President Donald Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on 20 June, where he served as a surrogate for the Black Voices for Trump committee.
> Cain had been critically ill with Covid-19 for several weeks, after being admitted to hospital in early July and receiving oxygen."
> Herman Cain dies from coronavirus after being hospitalised following Trump's Tulsa rally


Saw this. Sad. He was already in poor health. Stage four colon cancer that he was holding steady against, until this.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2020)

Media keeps praising Cuomo...yet his policies killed more people than Newsom, DeSantis, and Abbott's policies combined. 

Florida, Texas, and California Have a Fraction of Covid Deaths of New York


----------



## AWP (Aug 3, 2020)

Cuomo should be charged with manslaughter.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2020)

Food truck and a DJ? 

LAPD Responds To Large Party Being Held At Beverly Crest Mansion


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Food truck and a DJ?
> 
> LAPD Responds To Large Party Being Held At Beverly Crest Mansion


Let Cali and Portland the whole west coast form their own country. Put a walll up. No funding or manning from outside sources. Let em b self sufficient. See how long the love and peace last!!!


----------



## medicchick (Aug 4, 2020)

n Awe of Y'all said:


> Let Cali and Portland the whole west coast form their own country. Put a walll up. No funding or manning from outside sources. Let em b self sufficient. See how long the love and peace last!!!


You do realize most of us in Portland despise this shit and in fact most of it is being caused by out of state people. Stop lumping the whole state in with the actions of outsiders.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Food truck and a DJ?
> 
> LAPD Responds To Large Party Being Held At Beverly Crest Mansion



And then that party got violent later on that night. 

1 Dead, 2 Wounded After Gunfire Erupts At Alleged NFL Player Party


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> And then that party got violent later on that night.
> 
> 1 Dead, 2 Wounded After Gunfire Erupts At Alleged NFL Player Party


LOL, dumbass hasn't made it to preseason and he's pissing his money away.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2020)

Didn't see this trend anywhere.  Guess German citizens like Freedom.

Thousands gather in Berlin to protest against Covid-19 restrictions


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Media keeps praising Cuomo...yet his policies killed more people than Newsom, DeSantis, and Abbott's policies combined.
> 
> Florida, Texas, and California Have a Fraction of Covid Deaths of New York


By a factor of TEN. I can't understand how this isn't more of a thing. NY's COVID chart looks like the example of what they wanted us to avoid in March- the whole "flatten the curve" thing. 



ThunderHorse said:


> And then that party got violent later on that night.
> 
> 1 Dead, 2 Wounded After Gunfire Erupts At Alleged NFL Player Party


Well, I mean, it was "mostly peaceful".


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Aug 4, 2020)

So


medicchick said:


> You do realize most of us in Portland despise this shit and in fact most of it is being caused by out of state people. Stop lumping the whole state in with the actions of outsiders


----------



## n Awe of Y'all (Aug 4, 2020)

Sorry didn't mean it that way. Just reacted without thinking it through. Will do better in the future.Sorry Chick and anyother I offended.


----------



## Kraut783 (Aug 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Didn't see this trend anywhere.  Guess German citizens like Freedom.
> 
> Thousands gather in Berlin to protest against Covid-19 restrictions



People are getting stir crazy....everywhere


----------



## AWP (Aug 5, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> People are getting stir crazy....everywhere



People are fed up with it all. The "2 weeks to flatten the curve" wasn't contained to 2 MONTHS and now folks worldwide are pushing back. You can only stomach so much bullshit.


----------



## SaintKP (Aug 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> People are fed up with it all. The "2 weeks to flatten the curve" wasn't contained to 2 MONTHS and now folks worldwide are pushing back. You can only stomach so much bullshit.




Worldwide pandemic, racial tensions at all time high, Cold War between East and West heating up, smaller regional powers getting into actual armed conflicts, someone clapping Iran's cheeks, not to mention the common people are as you said getting fed up with the all of the bullshit. Oh and to top it all off a looming economic depression the likes of which we've never seen.


----------



## Scarecrow (Aug 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Worldwide pandemic, racial tensions at all time high, Cold War between East and West heating up, smaller regional powers getting into actual armed conflicts, someone clapping Iran's cheeks, not to mention the common people are as you said getting fed up with the all of the bullshit. Oh and to top it all off a looming economic depression the likes of which we've never seen.


And a blast in Beirut today that exceeded anything Peter North could produce.


----------



## AWP (Aug 5, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> And a blast in Beirut today that exceeded anything Peter North could produce.



You just won the internet.  Level up. Double XP.


----------



## Scarecrow (Aug 5, 2020)

We must watch the same shows @AWP.

I’m absolutely disgusted in you.


----------



## AWP (Aug 5, 2020)

Scarecrow said:


> We must watch the same shows @AWP.
> 
> I’m absolutely disgusted in you.



It is high praise to be thought so low by a fucking Aussie. My work here is done, ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 5, 2020)

Can't even make this stuff up. The fear mongering and people taking advantage of it are straight up scum.

Scientist says she made up Twitter account for Arizona State prof who ‘died’ of COVID-19


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 5, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Can't even make this stuff up. The fear mongering and people taking advantage of it are straight up scum.
> 
> Scientist says she made up Twitter account for Arizona State prof who ‘died’ of COVID-19


What trash waste of fatass flesh.  

As I was a student at ASU this past spring I can tell you that campus went full remote on 17 MAR and the science people only were on campus for labs and had to reserve the lab time so that they could maintain social distance.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What trash waste of fatass flesh.
> 
> As I was a student at ASU this past spring I can tell you that campus went full remote on 17 MAR and the science people only were on campus for labs and had to reserve the lab time so that they could maintain social distance.


Dude, yep. What's worrisome is that woman is a neuroscientist. In the arena of public opinion, what she says will have precedent over what someone like us says. Scary times considering that someone with a title can sway public influence... even without resorting to trickery.

Odd times.


----------



## Dame (Aug 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What trash waste of fatass flesh.
> 
> *As I was a student at ASU this past spring I can tell you that campus went full remote on 17 MAR* and the science people only were on campus for labs and had to reserve the lab time so that they could maintain social distance.


Same here. Being forced to teach in April? Bullshit! Salary cut while in the hospital with COVID? This woman needs to be charged with multiple counts of fraud and defamation. Apologies aren't enough, you blithering twit. Taking full responsibility? For using a fake account to try to get tenure at another university? And then pretending to die? While REAL people are dying in nursing homes?

I sincerely hope that bitch gets jail time.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 6, 2020)

Dictatorships in Americas municipalities. 

New York
De Blasio announces $10K fines, checkpoints for travelers flouting NYC quarantine

Los Angeles
Los Angeles Mayor Says City May Shut Off Water, Power At Houses Hosting Large Parties


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dictatorships in Americas municipalities.
> 
> New York
> De Blasio announces $10K fines, checkpoints for travelers flouting NYC quarantine
> ...


These are the types of stories that keep me up at night.  Similar to Minneapolis, I see too many Mayors and Governors testing their “Emergency Powers” muscles.  Funny thing about “power”, it’s not so easy to give up once you’ve tasted it.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm moving out of California by the end of the month.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dictatorships in Americas municipalities.
> 
> New York
> De Blasio announces $10K fines, checkpoints for travelers flouting NYC quarantine
> ...



I'd like to see lawsuits against the municipalities and states for human rights violations....


----------



## racing_kitty (Aug 6, 2020)

Funny, I remember a time when Rhode Island wanted to put up a checkpoint to catch the escaping plague rats from NYC, complete with quarantine and fines (albeit lesser dollar amounts), and Hizzoner had a shit fit about it. 

DI Blasio can choke on a tick ridden badger dick.


----------



## 757 (Aug 6, 2020)

To be fair regarding De Blasio's choking proclivity, old habits die hard


----------



## Dame (Aug 6, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm moving out of California by the end of the month.


Vegas baby!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 7, 2020)

Tell me something I didn't know Tony, we already knew there was no vaccines for SARS-COV-1 or MERS-COV.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291808892998029322
Now open it up and go to herd immunity.

Dear Joe, take my state out of your mouth.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291690888477970432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291733916546564096


----------



## Dame (Aug 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dear Joe, take my state out of your mouth.


Pure gold.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Aug 7, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Tell me something I didn't know Tony, we already knew there was no vaccines for SARS-COV-1 or MERS-COV.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291808892998029322
> ...


Ol' Joe Bidet wouldn't do _that _to Arizona, it's not a prepubescent adolescent.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 8, 2020)

Another COVID related death.  Putting violent criminals on the street.

Rape suspect freed from jail amid COVID-19 allegedly kills accuser


----------



## Dame (Aug 8, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Another COVID related death.  Putting violent criminals on the street.
> 
> Rape suspect freed from jail amid COVID-19 allegedly kills accuser


Hate for the lawyers and judge who released his sorry ass.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 8, 2020)

Just found out that my sister in law, her husband, and 3 of 4 kids have COVID.  Per my SIL, had they not found out, they would have thought they had "a bad cold".


----------



## Marine0311 (Aug 9, 2020)

Is this the new normal?
Do i wear a mask for the rest of my life?


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 9, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Is this the new normal?
> Do i wear a mask for the rest of my life?



Our top Doctor made a statement this week to expect to wear them for the next 2-3 year's...  Fuck that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 9, 2020)

This is a really stupid article.  But hey, I read liberal shit every day.  He almost had me humming along and then he called the US a failed state.   Thanks Rolling Stone for continuing to be trashy.

The Unraveling of America


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 9, 2020)

"Pity"?  I don't want your goddamn "pity", world.  And Mr. Davis, a non-American who thinks he piously has 'us' figured out, fuck you.


----------



## AWP (Aug 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is a really stupid article.  But hey, I read liberal shit every day.  He almost had me humming along and then he called the US a failed state.   Thanks Rolling Stone for continuing to be trashy.
> 
> The Unraveling of America



While reading the article I received a pop-up with the tag of "Politics with Attitude" featuring AOC, asking me to subscribe to RS.

With that out of the way I tried reading the article. I didn't make it halfway before I closed that tab in my browser. He could have saved more time and electrons if he just said "I'm a Communist and I suck Chairman Mao's dick."

I'm all for differing views, but something so blatently Communist in the first third of an article gets a pizza cutter from me.

YMMV


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 10, 2020)

And this is something that should have been done before any mask mandate or push for non medical mask production.  It still won't prove how effective your mask is.

Scientists tested 14 types of masks — here are the ones that worked and didn’t


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 10, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And this is something that should have been done before any mask mandate or push for non medical mask production.  It still won't prove how effective your mask is.
> 
> Scientists tested 14 types of masks — here are the ones that worked and didn’t



That study was done here at our fair University, I know one of the guys in the research project. He's a big advocate for either have the right mask or don't wear any mask at all.  He openly laughs at people who wear all sorts of stupid crap on their face just for the sake of having their face covered


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That study was done here at our fair University, I know one of the guys in the research project. He's a big advocate for either have the right mask or don't wear any mask at all.  He openly laughs at people who wear all sorts of stupid crap on their face just for the sake of having their face covered



I think at this point a small majority of people wear it out of compliance, not for protection.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think at this point a small majority of people wear it out of compliance, not for protection.



Absolutely, you see these people every day: spiderman masks, bandannas, scarves....

Remember at the beginning when everyone got a laugh out of people wearing super hero masks, or darth vader helmets, or M40 gas masks?  Now that shit is normal and we don't blink an eye....


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 10, 2020)

@Devildoc Coming home from Afghanistan I've only been back in real civilization since Saturday. In Az the mood seems to be if it wasn't required it wouldn't be worn. The major chain restaurants have very strict standards with very few seating options. Now, the local sports bars on the other hand, look like the place where people retreat to get away from it all. Young, old, fat, it's freedom. That's my 48 hrs of observation outside of base confinement/restriction.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 10, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think at this point a small majority of people wear it out of compliance, not for protection.


I wear it so businesses won't be fined $1000.00
The $250.00 fine levied against me gets a "truckers payback" as my dad would say.


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 10, 2020)

The real concern with face coverings that don't do anything like bandanas etc. is that it puts people in a false sense of security. They feel like they're protected and stop social distancing. Just ends up making things worse for everyone


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is a really stupid article.  But hey, I read liberal shit every day.  He almost had me humming along and then he called the US a failed state.   Thanks Rolling Stone for continuing to be trashy.
> 
> The Unraveling of America



The amount of idiot friends on my  facebook sharing this article is disappointing, they're parroting the failed state bit.  I guess people have no idea what a Failed State is.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The amount of idiot friends on my  facebook sharing this article is disappointing, they're parroting the failed state bit.  I guess people have no idea what a Failed State is.



No, they do not.  Just like how all the people (on both sides) bitch about how fascist/socialist/whatever (please put whatever perjorative here) country this is, have never been outside of our borders.  They have zero idea how good they have it.


----------



## compforce (Aug 11, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> I wear it so businesses won't be fined $1000.00
> The $250.00 fine levied against me gets a "truckers payback" as my dad would say.



Bingo...     I don't wear it for protection, hell if I made it through the places I did, in the conditions I did, then I am probably immune to anything short of death.  And if I'm not immune, I already beat the odds making it this far.  As I told my doctor a long time ago "I am a single guy that drives fast cars fast, I deploy to places where people want to kill me...me personally, I like women and am not monogamous.  Smoking isn't going to be what kills me."   Well, neither will Coronavirus, for the same reasons. 


Spoiler: NSFW










I wear it to be the grey man.  I wear a neck gaitor.  I have ZERO expectations that it is actually protecting anyone.  I only pull it up for the time when I am going to be nearby others.  As soon as I walk out the door, it comes down.  No looks, no chance of a rabid Karen shouting at me drawing everyone else's attention.  Slightly lower risk of me having to defend myself or losing friends who are virtue signaling.  That's it, the whole reason.  

I'm going out for a beer...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2020)

compforce said:


> Bingo...     I don't wear it for protection, hell if I made it through the places I did, in the conditions I did, then I am probably immune to anything short of death.  And if I'm not immune, I already beat the odds making it this far.  As I told my doctor a long time ago "I am a single guy that drives fast cars fast, I deploy to places where people want to kill me...me personally, I like women and am not monogamous.  Smoking isn't going to be what kills me."   Well, neither will Coronavirus, for the same reasons.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 11, 2020)

And voices of reason appear in Canada, queue the fear mongers to denounce them.

Health experts call for shift in Canada's COVID strategy - NEWS 1130


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2020)

A family in Auckland, four cases, in New Zealand.  And the PM shuts down an entire city.  A city of 1.7 Million people. 

Four new cases were enough for Ardern to lock down Auckland. Here's what we know

And of course you have useful idiots cheering this on.  This is not a good response.  Nevermind that NZ's borders are not open.


----------



## CQB (Aug 12, 2020)

There are different levels of response, by the look the country isn’t locked down if most of the country is at level 2 & Auckland is at level 3.
Alert Level 3


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm sure a couple of people have seen this little gem. When you bring the choke from the sheets to the streets...

Victoria police charge woman who was filmed allegedly being choked then pinned to ground by officer


----------



## Dame (Aug 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm sure a couple of people have seen this little gem. When you bring the choke from the sheets to the streets...
> 
> Victoria police charge woman who was filmed allegedly being choked then pinned to ground by officer


What the actual fuck?!


----------



## CQB (Aug 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm sure a couple of people have seen this little gem. When you bring the choke from the sheets to the streets...
> 
> Victoria police charge woman who was filmed allegedly being choked then pinned to ground by officer


Yep, not a good look.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 12, 2020)

Dame said:


> What the actual fuck?!


Victoria doing the hardcore lockdown stuff...


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 12, 2020)

Dame said:


> What the actual fuck?!



 Agreed.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> A family in Auckland, four cases, in New Zealand.  And the PM shuts down an entire city.  A city of 1.7 Million people.
> 
> Four new cases were enough for Ardern to lock down Auckland. Here's what we know
> 
> And of course you have useful idiots cheering this on.  This is not a good response.  Nevermind that NZ's borders are not open.



Thanks for the expert advice. I'm sure the Ministry of Health have a position open for you.


----------



## CQB (Aug 12, 2020)

An interesting development with vaccines, Russia is testing allegedly on its own citizens, with some doubts being raised already. The PRC has decided to test theirs in Indonesia, Brazil & Turkey, but not on their own.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> An interesting development with vaccines, Russia is testing allegedly on its own citizens, with some doubts being raised already. The PRC has decided to test theirs in Indonesia, Brazil & Turkey, but not on their own.


Oh I bet they're testing it on Uighurs and shit.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 12, 2020)

CQB said:


> An interesting development with vaccines, Russia is testing allegedly on its own citizens prisoners, with some doubts being raised already. The PRC has decided to test theirs in Indonesia, Brazil & Turkey, but not on their own.


FIFY.


Being first isn't always the best option.


----------



## Bypass (Aug 12, 2020)

Did you fellers ever think we'd see a day where we were wearing masks to go to the gas station. Heck some of these crazy doctors want you to wear a mask while having sex...........................................Wait.....................This might be of benefit.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 13, 2020)

I like being able to fart anywhere in public now.


----------



## AWP (Aug 13, 2020)

CQB said:


> The PRC has decided to test theirs in Indonesia, Brazil & Turkey, but not on their own.



The UAE is working with China on the Stage III trials. Media in the UAE is saying Stages I and II were done in China.

What part of any of that is true? Dunno.


----------



## CQB (Aug 13, 2020)

I’m cynical about a lot of it & for me this works. Personally, I’d be suspicious of any product like this that comes out of the PRC; would you trust it?
But as far as Indonesia goes Jokowi isn’t interested in big issues & geopolitics, he just wants results for his people, I’m not sure about other nations. Similarly for UAE, I’m thinking that it’s more your strasse, I wouldn’t have any idea on what’s happening there.
But back to the main game, Stage 3 as a layman (Medicos hop in) are where products’ are tested in clinical trials & if successful the glorious central nation has saved the world from certain annihilation, All Hail!


----------



## AWP (Aug 13, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’m cynical about a lot of it & for me this works. Personally, I’d be suspicious of any product like this that comes out of the PRC; would you trust it?
> But as far as Indonesia goes Jokowi isn’t interested in big issues & geopolitics, he just wants results for his people, I’m not sure about other nations. Similarly for UAE, I’m thinking that it’s more your strasse, I wouldn’t have any idea on what’s happening there.
> But back to the main game, Stage 3 as a layman (Medicos hop in) are where products’ are tested in clinical trials & if successful the glorious central nation has saved the world from certain annihilation, All Hail!



Would I trust a product developed by the PRC? Yeah, that's a hard no from me.

The UAE perspective on the trials:

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/heal...s-for-covid-19-vaccine-trial-in-uae-1.1063118

https://gulfnews.com/uae/uae-15000-...vaccinated-with-covid-19-shot-1.1597308028692

How this has played out here is...been a little insane as Dubai and Abu Dhabi took very different approaches. It's nothing more than the two ruler's take on how to manage the response. Dubai and AD are in a friendly but cut throat competition with each other on just about everything, so the CV-19 response wasn't a surprise.

My co-workers and I fully expect that if the vaccine is deemed successful we'll receive a text directing us to go take said vaccine...along with everyone in AD.

Oh, the national sterilization program that ran for a few months:
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/envi...s-are-harmless-to-humans-and-animals-1.998261

Yes, they were spraying the sidewalks. Also, cars. And streets.


----------



## CQB (Aug 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> Would I trust a product developed by the PRC? Yeah, that's a hard no from me.
> 
> The UAE perspective on the trials:
> 
> ...


They’ve certainly in gone hard. We’re nowhere close with a vaccine here, though there’s a Melbourne Cup field of contenders.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 14, 2020)

So basically it's classrooms without the teachers because the teachers suck.  @Devildoc this is literally some wild shit.  #defundteachersunions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294404258633261059


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So basically it's classrooms without the teachers because the teachers suck.  @Devildoc this is literally some wild shit.  #defundteachersunions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294404258633261059



No one here is really taking that seriously. Remember all those movies, those bank heist movies, where the bank robbers were holed up and the cops were outside? And their demands were stuff like a 737 to South America, $10 million, and all that?  But everyone knew that it was never going to happen?

Everyone here is seeing that list, rolling their eyes.  No one cares.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So basically it's classrooms without the teachers because the teachers suck.  @Devildoc this is literally some wild shit.  #defundteachersunions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294404258633261059



North Carolina doesn’t have unions. Teachers are not unionized in N.C.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 14, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> North Carolina doesn’t have unions. Teachers are not unionized in N.C.



By that I mean public employee unions^


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 14, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> North Carolina doesn’t have unions. Teachers are not unionized in N.C.


Oh, but you do.  There's just a prohibition on collective bargaining by Public Employees.  

North Carolina Association of Educators | Welcome to the NCAE


----------



## Dvr55119 (Aug 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Oh, but you do.  There's just a prohibition on collective bargaining by Public Employees.
> 
> North Carolina Association of Educators | Welcome to the NCAE



I legitimately didn’t know that. I thought that was a professional association. Like the AANA or even something like the SFA. I thought to be a union you had to have collective bargaining. Learn something new everyday.


----------



## Florida173 (Aug 15, 2020)

I'm currently on 14 days quarantine at a hotel in Germany. DOD and Germany seem to have a pretty controlled approach for handling new arrivals. Already got my 2 negative tests, so not quite sure why i have to quarantine longer.

The EU has been having issues lately though. Generally there's been little to no restrictions for green to green travel within the zone and UK, but there's been a recent uptick in cases, especially in Spain, that might cause some renewed policy. My point being that I've seen a lot of people criticize the United States in handling, and rightfully so in some situations, but we're not too unique and this problem isn't going away anywhere. 

Now of we could stop putting COVID patients with nursing home... looking at you Gretchen


----------



## CQB (Aug 15, 2020)

Link to an article on a vaccine.

The Risks of Rushing a COVID-19 Vaccine

Also here the government is being circumspect, pointing out that the PRC processes for R&D are great, but there’s a query over delivery. Keeping the product at the required temperature consistently from A to B for example. The head shed was pretty clear on anything having to comply with our standards. Also mentioned was the risk of a black market, bribery etc.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 15, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I legitimately didn’t know that. I thought that was a professional association. Like the AANA or even something like the SFA. I thought to be a union you had to have collective bargaining. Learn something new everyday.



That's not a union in a traditional sense, like to which you are referring. But they are very politically powerful and their coffers have an enormous amount of money, they wield a lot of political influence.  That organization is singularly the reason bad teachers cannot get fired once they got tenure.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2020)

CDC: One quarter of young adults contemplated suicide during pandemic

Tell me something I didn't know.  Humans are actually a social species.  We want to be around our friends and interact with others.  Lockdowns are bad for mental health, full stop.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> CDC: One quarter of young adults contemplated suicide during pandemic
> 
> Tell me something I didn't know.  Humans are actually a social species.  We want to be around our friends and interact with others.  Lockdowns are bad for mental health, full stop.


Sadly, this is something that's not discussed enough.  I have even greater concerns for those high school ages between 14 and 18.  Social interactions are key to developing young people.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Sadly, this is something that's not discussed enough.  I have even greater concerns for those high school ages between 14 and 18.  Social interactions are key to developing young people.


I can talk about all the zoomers and how weak they'll be blah blah blah.  But kids not being around other kids is bad.  A friend of mine posted a long thread on facebook about a mental breakdown her daughter had two months into lockdown, high achieving, athlete type.  I'm gonna say that is a more normal result than not and it is not good.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> CDC: One quarter of young adults contemplated suicide during pandemic
> 
> Tell me something I didn't know.  Humans are actually a social species.  We want to be around our friends and interact with others.  Lockdowns are bad for mental health, full stop.


Fucking this. How many people have died thanks to the ‘fix’ for COVID?

We are on day 152 of ‘15 Days to Slow the Spread’. It’s slowed and trending downward. What. Are. We. Still. Doing.


----------



## compforce (Aug 16, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> We are on day 152 of ‘15 Days to Slow the Spread’. It’s slowed and trending downward. What. Are. We. Still. Doing.



Wagging. The. Dog.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 16, 2020)

compforce said:


> Wagging. The. Dog.


I don’t disagree.


----------



## AWP (Aug 16, 2020)

I have to wonder how much of the civil unrest we're seeing is partially driven by the economy, "2 weeks" lie, and continued lockdowns.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2020)

The number of infections are continuously proven to be artificially high, by whatever errors.  Coding is a new one.

Texas officials say record-high COVID-19 positivity rate was caused by coding errors, system upgrades


----------



## Ranger Psych (Aug 17, 2020)

Keep it closed, keep pressure on the establishment. Personally, I'm torn between my hatred for political violence, and my love for personal violence.


----------



## digrar (Aug 17, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I'm sure a couple of people have seen this little gem. When you bring the choke from the sheets to the streets...
> 
> Victoria police charge woman who was filmed allegedly being choked then pinned to ground by officer



None of that was about a mask. The lack of mask was the initial conversation, but instead of supplying the exemption letter, she played the not supplying my name game and then escalates the drama by grabbing at his vest. From there it's a bit of a masterclass, kungfu grip applied to slow her down a bit, gets her back pedalling rapidly to take her mind off grabbing at his gear, gently sweeps the leg and rolls her on to the ground, lets her gas her self out struggling, cuffed and then into the van.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 17, 2020)

Great time I guess.  

Shocking images show packed Wuhan pool party in former coronavirus ground zero


----------



## AWP (Aug 17, 2020)

digrar said:


> gently sweeps the leg


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 18, 2020)

Article originally appeared in the NYT, but I found it outside of the paywall thanks to yahoo.  What if 'Herd Immunity' is Closer Than Scientists Thought?

Something that I've suspected, we're pretty much already there with Herd immunity given serology testing of anti-bodies. This is the second major article that I've read discussing the Herd immunity threshold being much lower that the touted numbers of 50-70%. Remember, vaccines are not 100%. This is also a viral disease, so that means you will just catch by doing normal bodily sustaining functions like breathing. 

Is it serious? Certainly, but so is the flu.


----------



## Dame (Aug 18, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> My neighbor woke up a couple weeks ago with supposedly a tremendous amount of pain in his big toe; so much so that he called his doctor (insert all kinds of smart ass comments here...I did). The doc tells him to come in immediately and get checked for "Covid Toe". I'm like, you gotta be shitting me, right? Nope, a real thing, evidently.


I was at the doctor's office yesterday for blood work. While sitting in the lobby, a lady came in, walked up to the plexiglas and said to the guy, "I'm here because my toe is killing me. Oh, and I have a cough."

I immediately looked for a seat as far away as possible.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 18, 2020)

Dame said:


> "I'm here because my toe is killing me. Oh, and I have a cough."


Gout with a side dish of CoVid...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 19, 2020)

Another in a long line of things I'm not surprised about:

US intelligence determined Wuhan officials hid coronavirus information, fearing reprisals: report


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 20, 2020)

Garcetti shut the power to a house yesterday.  






Garcetti Authorizes City To Shut Off Power At Hollywood Hills 'Party House' Reportedly Belonging To TikTok Star Bryce Hall


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 20, 2020)

Lol, good, cause that will change votes in November. Dude has 13.5m followers on Tiktok, and I'm sure his TikToker friends will influence a bunch of others. It's not just California here.


----------



## Salt USMC (Aug 20, 2020)

Hadn’t heard of Bryce Hall before. After taking a look at some of his content, I’m not sure how many of those 13.5m followers are even old enough to vote


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 20, 2020)

Can one of you please tell your President that it's not a competition and he should be worried about more things than us?


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 20, 2020)

Do you not have Twitter or Instagram?


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 20, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Do you not have Twitter or Instagram?



No, neither. I'm not totally sure what your point it, though.


----------



## GOTWA (Aug 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Can one of you please tell your President that it's not a competition and he should be worried about more things than us?



Message him yourself.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 21, 2020)

Ok mate.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 23, 2020)

Football related but important...we've still got a lot of false positives coming out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297536162396020736


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 23, 2020)

At our hospital the most accurate thing has been lung scans, both forms of testing we do has double digit error rates.


----------



## AWP (Aug 24, 2020)

9 tesed positive and then all 9 were actually negative?

The multi-layered bullshit at play here is amazing. Just delicious.


----------



## DA SWO (Aug 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Football related but important...we've still got a lot of false positives coming out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297536162396020736


We know it wasn't any of the receivers, they can't catch anything.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> 9 tesed positive and then all 9 were actually negative?
> 
> The multi-layered bullshit at play here is amazing. Just delicious.


Oh it's getting better.  77 False positives now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297712179773411331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297882201611292672
So apparently, it is extremely easy to contaminate these tests.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 24, 2020)

So, today it appears you can get it again.

Hong Kong reports first coronavirus reinfection


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 24, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So, today it appears you can get it again.
> 
> Hong Kong reports first coronavirus reinfection



I'm wondering if they will identify separate strains, in this case.


----------



## AWP (Aug 24, 2020)

Again, I'll state that a BSN and several doctors at a Central Florida hospital sent in tests performed on NO ONE and those returned as CV-19 positive. 

I won't understate the damage the virus can do, but the overall numbers?

Absolute bullshit. The statistics? Absolute bullshit.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 27, 2020)

I don't even know what to say about this one.  I doubt even the Onion could come up with a story this absurd:
Testing the waters: Researchers checking Lake Superior beaches for coronavirus


----------



## CQB (Aug 27, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Another in a long line of things I'm not surprised about:
> 
> US intelligence determined Wuhan officials hid coronavirus information, fearing reprisals: report


There’s been scant information on how the inquiry led by Helen Clark is going, nowhere I would imaging.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2020)

Takes crisis to push innovation.  

Calgary-based Teser creates jobs while fighting global pandemic


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 29, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Takes crisis to push innovation.
> 
> Calgary-based Teser creates jobs while fighting global pandemic



I read that headline as "Taser." 

I mean, it does kind of fit...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

Not really touched on by the media, because it doesn't fit their narrative.  But this was hidden away and starting to get tweeted about on COVID-19 deaths.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics



> *Comorbidities*
> Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). *For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.* The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups.


----------



## Salt USMC (Aug 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not really touched on by the media, because it doesn't fit their narrative.  But this was hidden away and starting to get tweeted about on COVID-19 deaths.
> 
> COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics


Huh, interesting that most of the additional causes of deaths were respiratory diseases.  Like, you know, how someone might die of "Respiratory failure" after contracting a respiratory virus?  

Or if we're talking about circulatory diseases, interesting that someone could possibly suffer, I don't know, cardiac arrest exacerbated by a respiratory virus?

Yeah, "doesn't fit their narrative."  Sure.


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 30, 2020)

The US now has ~183,392 - 245,305 excess deaths for this year. That's pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter.


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 30, 2020)

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> The US now has ~183,392 - 245,305 excess deaths for this year. *That's pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter.*


Actually....for those of us playing along at home.  What does this mean?  (to you)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> The US now has ~183,392 - 245,305 excess deaths for this year. That's pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter.



Disagree with this premise, considering 94% of the deaths related had on average 2.6 comorbities, it's likely many of these people would have died without COVID-19 showing up from China.


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 30, 2020)

Excess deaths are by definition deaths beyond what would normally be expected for the same time period. In other words if covid19 did not exist we would predict that 185-245k fewer people would be dead. 

In other words, Covid is responsible for many thousands of deaths that otherwise would not occur during the same time period.

94% of deaths having comorbidity does not mean Covid is not responsible. It means that most people who die from Covid had other health issues. Those health issues can vary widely from people already on their deathbed to relatively common ailments like diabetes etc.

To say those people would have died anyway is by definition wrong. Excess deaths is deaths *beyond normal expectations*. Everybody will die, but without Covid roughly ~180-245k fewer people would have died this year so far. 

As for how to tackle Covid from a policy perspective, well, frankly I'm mixed on it. It's a very difficult problem to handle and I'm not envious of the policy makers who have to try. But to say it is an inconsequential illness is pretty disrespectful to those ~200k and their families.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> Excess deaths are by definition deaths beyond what would normally be expected for the same time period. In other words if covid19 did not exist we would predict that 185-245k fewer people would be dead.
> 
> In other words, Covid is responsible for many thousands of deaths that otherwise would not occur during the same time period.
> 
> ...



Until I stop seeing articles like "man dies in motorcycle accident, COVID blamed," and such BS I'll look at that data with, apologies to Elvis, a suspicious mind.

No doubt it has caused deaths but those numbers are just a shell game of statistics.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> Excess deaths are by definition deaths beyond what would normally be expected for the same time period. In other words if covid19 did not exist we would predict that 185-245k fewer people would be dead.
> 
> In other words, Covid is responsible for many thousands of deaths that otherwise would not occur during the same time period.
> 
> ...



You do know people who've been murdered have been counted as COVID-19 deaths? Right?  More than a few links in this thread. Comorbidities is only part of the data.  

Me, I'm just gonna keep working on my fitness, eating good food, taking my vitamins. Time to live.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 30, 2020)

Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US, every year we're looking at several hundred thousand deaths. To me this means in this Nation we have a general health problem and should come to no surprise to anyone that with a roll of the dice many are effected when our homeostasis of Route 44 cups of Brawndo and pro-stress cultures are agitated.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Aug 30, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Heart disease is still the leading cause of death in the US, every year we're looking at several hundred thousand deaths. To me this means in this Nation we have a general health problem and should come to no surprise to anyone that with a roll of the dice many are effected when our homeostasis of Route 44 cups of *Brawndo* and pro-stress cultures are agitated.



It's got what plants crave!!!!!


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 30, 2020)

@Devildoc That's not valid though because you're confusing mis-attirbution of deaths to covid with the concept of excess deaths. I'm not saying every single person who died above expectation did so because of Covid, but when you look at these numbers:

Deaths and Mortality

Data are for the U.S.


Number of annual deaths: 2,813,503

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:


Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
Diabetes: 83,564
Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf

It paints a clearer picture. Particularly, it says that Covid directly and indirectly has almost certainly become the 3rd leading cause of death in this country for 2020.

I'll add the CDC's own words for further clarity on my point:

"Weekly counts of deaths from all causes were examined, including deaths due to COVID-19. As many deaths due to COVID-19 may be assigned to other causes of deaths (for example, if COVID-19 was not mentioned on the death certificate as a suspected cause of death), tracking all-cause mortality can provide information about whether an excess number of deaths is observed, even when COVID-19 mortality may be undercounted. These estimates can also provide information about deaths that may be indirectly related to COVID-19. For example, if deaths due to other causes may increase as a result of health care shortages due to COVID-19."

One instance of a cyclist dying being mislabeled is just statistical noise. When excess deaths are on the magnitude of 200k, they're not relevant.


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 30, 2020)

@PineTree , covid-related numbers have been skewed since March.  There's zero way to make any meaningful interpretation of the numbers.

Maybe suicide is up.  Maybe people piercing their brains picking their nose are up.  Maybe there is correlation and not causation.  "Directly and indirectly." Give me a fucking break.  They don't know.

Edited my post.  I appreciate you may not agree with what I posted, and I likewise appreciate that you post resources and site your background. My frustration comes from having dealt with this since February in a medical capacity where I've been dealing with data and COVID.  My institution was so disillusioned with the data from CDC and WHO and pretty much started ignoring their numbers by the end of March, beginning of April, going on our own internal data and that of a consortium between us and a couple other nearby hospitals and universities.


----------



## compforce (Aug 30, 2020)

> tracking all-cause mortality can provide information about whether an excess number of deaths is observed, even when COVID-19 mortality may be undercounted.



What about overcounted?



> Some of the nation’s leading public health experts are raising a new concern in the endless debate over coronavirus testing in the United States: The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus.


Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.

If this is accurate (I'd love to hear @Devildoc 's take on this) then those numbers are highly inflated, just like all of the COVID numbers have been.  There are multiple accounts of healthcare professionals sending in samples that weren't actually swabbed and having positive results come back.  Now this article is suggesting that between 70-80+ % of the positives may be due to the process of testing rather than the prevalence of the virus.  How do we reconcile these?


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 30, 2020)

Man, I hate to be the positivity police here- but again, this is the type of shit I do like.

@PineTree this is just me as a dude. Please explore our vetting page. If you’re able to get vetted, that would be dope. PM me if you need anything.

Nothing to add, carry on.


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Aug 30, 2020)

@Devildoc The main reason I posted about excess deaths in the first place is that it is specifically not a covid measurement. It's just an overall measurement of how many more people are dying than normal. If the number of excess deaths were a lot lower and could be reasonably attributed to other causes I would 100% agree with you. As has been pointed out on this thread, covid testing has a lot of issues and data has been hard to get a handle of. 

But, I challenge you to come up with a better reason to explain why between 100k-250k Americans are dead who normally wouldn't be.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Disagree with this premise, considering 94% of the deaths related had on average 2.6 comorbities, it's likely many of these people would have died without COVID-19 showing up from China.



I think it's pretty likely 100% of those people will have died anyway.


----------



## Blizzard (Aug 30, 2020)

PineTree said:


> The US now has ~183,392 - 245,305 excess deaths for this year. That's pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter.


As previous posts indicate, there's plenty that can be said. The virus certainly is serious.  But, again, we also need to keep some additional perspective...

That's ~7% increase in over previous years death totals, with most of the deaths occurring in older populations.  Then we have the issues presented by others above when it comes to data quality.  But perhaps more importantly, rates appear to be falling back to early outbreak levels, at least for now.  While it's too early to say for certain, it would appear the gap/elevated death level is unlikely to continue.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Aug 31, 2020)

Something I haven't seen mentioned here, and if appropriate correct me if I'm wrong- is the misalignment (I would like a better word for it) of care in the beginning as we fully didn't understand publicly what we were dealing with. There are many articles citing the increase deaths in NY in patients put on ventilators; there was a huge stink about getting them etc; how do we know for certain, at least in this context, some of the deaths weren't caused BECAUSE of the ventilators for example. You can find many articles citing the danger of using ventilators in the first place, let alone when placed in care for a virus not fully understood.

 Our lab here over the summer saw a massive increase coagulation testing(because of the noted Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation), inflammatory testing, and I believe we are part of the trial in using treated platelets in a therapeutic manner. Not to mention (anecdotally) that the IR peeps I've spoken to see blood clots within the lungs of patients that have tested negative for covid-19.

The ventilators for example are just one venue that could have contributed to issues within patients, I'm not going to get into pharmaceuticals because that's not my lane. I just feel it's important to note that we are obviously more informed now, and at least on the ground, everyone is doing their best. Covid isn't some monolothic thing that indiscriminately kills on its own, but there are a multitude of layers of causes for why excess deaths are the way they are ONLY looking at healthcare itself; fake counts or not. 

Just my .02


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 31, 2020)

More food for thought:

Per CDC, 6% of the 161,392 COVID deaths died from COVID as a 'standalone' (or 0.0000296% of the US population); the other 94% had 2 or greater comorbidities.  90% were over age 55.

A fly in the ointment in NC: 11% are under age 18, with 4 deaths (unknown if comorbidity).

Regarding additional deaths, the boomers are now really hitting their stride; 13% of the US pop is over 65.  The US census reported in 2017 a growing 'bubble' of deaths that is not going to peak until the mid-2020s.  I would think that a part of the death rate is simply from old age.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

I'm curious to get an update on the Sturgis rally.  

So many people were up in arms about it. No social distancing or masking.  It's been 15/16 days since it wrapped up. Last I heard, they were 100+ (possibly as many as 160) cases in 8 states that could traced back to the rally; one serious that I know of and no deaths. There were reportedly 460,000 attendees.  If we run with 160 out of 460K, that's only a .03% transmission rate!  

Between this and the riots, there should have a lot of data to work with.  Does it really support the ridiculousness we're going through? !


----------



## AWP (Sep 1, 2020)

My non-medical hot take on the CDC data: The 6% number is a bit "wrong" in that no other conditions were recorded, but how many of those had other conditions? CV-19 is going to be deadlier with respiratory conditions...that were probably caused by the disease. 60+ is  known to be far more affected than younger age groups. When you start slicing the report, you can kind of slew the numbers to your bias.

And that's assuming the numbers can be trusted which we've proven time and time again that you cannot.

So...why are we getting our panties in a bunch over this? Are we yelling at the sun next?


----------



## Kraut783 (Sep 1, 2020)

AWP said:


> So...why are we getting our panties in a bunch over this? Are we yelling at the sun next?



Damn right, it just sits there in the sky, mocking us


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Damn right, it just sits there in the sky, mocking us



But have faith!  It's September 1, and soon it will be mocking @digrar and @SpitfireV , and we'll see less of it!


----------



## 757 (Sep 1, 2020)

Dang it! They beat us to it. #RightSideOfHistory


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

All of this back and forth about the numbers reminds me of something Michael Osterholm said on Joe Rogan:

(Paraphrasing) "The catch 22 with pandemic response is that, if it works and we catch it in time, people won't believe the disease was as bad as we thought".

Sure, we shut the country down for _only_ 6% deaths from COVID alone, but we have no idea what those numbers would have been had everything stayed open.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> All of this back and forth about the numbers reminds me of something Michael Osterholm said on Joe Rogan:
> 
> (Paraphrasing) "The catch 22 with pandemic response is that, if it works and we catch it in time, people won't believe the disease was as bad as we thought".
> 
> Sure, we shut the country down for _only_ 6% deaths from COVID alone, but we have no idea what those numbers would have been had everything stayed open.



That is true; we'll never know.  But it's easy enough to model (I am not going to do it because 1) I do not have time, and 2) I hate statistical modeling).

But here's the thing, of the 100% who got it, it's that 6% who died, and of that 6%, the vast majority were over 55 and had one or more comorbidities.  So the questions should be, do we alter the lifestyle and economy for 0.0002% of the population; or, do we target specific interventions to that population and be strategic about shutting down the country?

I do think we have enough data to see retrospectively that as an aggregate it was not as bad as we thought is was going to be, but for a specific population it was every bad as we thought it was going to be.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That is true; we'll never know.  But it's easy enough to model (I am not going to do it because 1) I do not have time, and 2) I hate statistical modeling).
> 
> But here's the thing, of the 100% who got it, it's that 6% who died, and of that 6%, the vast majority were over 55 and had one or more comorbidities.  So the questions should be, do we alter the lifestyle and economy for 0.0002% of the population; or, *do we target specific interventions to that population and be strategic about shutting down the country?*
> 
> I do think we have enough data to see retrospectively that as an aggregate it was not as bad as we thought is was going to be, but for a specific population it was every bad as we thought it was going to be.



I'd love to say we just have specific interventions and can trust the populace to follow them, but quite frankly I don't think that's possible for a good amount of citizens to do.

ETA: Not that I'm in favor of the continuing shutdowns either, I just don't trust people not to be selfish pricks


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd love to say we just have specific interventions and can trust the populace to follow them, but quite frankly I don't think that's possible for a good amount of citizens to do.
> 
> ETA: Not that I'm in favor of the continuing shutdowns either, I just don't trust people not to be selfish pricks


"Selfish" sorry man.  But it is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my family.  It is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my friends. It is not healthy to keep people stuck in their homes for 6 months.  That's why OD rates are up, that's why suicide rates are up. This needs to be over.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'd love to say we just have specific interventions and can trust the populace to follow them, but quite frankly I don't think that's possible for a good amount of citizens to do.
> 
> ETA: Not that I'm in favor of the continuing shutdowns either, I just don't trust people not to be selfish pricks



It has to be a 2-way street; part of the onus is on the >55 with comorbidities to exercise prudence.  And we know they can do that, we see it every day with people with compromised immune system, the elderly during high-peak flu season, at-risk kids during RSV season.  So we know the patient education is there.  The other onus is on the local jurisdiction and businesses to assist by engineering interventions.


----------



## Locksteady (Sep 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "Selfish" sorry man.  But it is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my family.  It is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my friends. It is not healthy to keep people stuck in their homes for 6 months.  That's why OD rates are up, that's why suicide rates are up. This needs to be over.


All of those things can be done 'non-selfishly' in ways that preclude the need for the continuing shutdowns mentioned by @Cookie_.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> "Selfish" sorry man.  But it is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my family.  It is "selfish" to tell me I can't visit my friends. It is not healthy to keep people stuck in their homes for 6 months.  That's why OD rates are up, that's why suicide rates are up. This needs to be over.



I'm thinking more of the "I'm gonna go cough into people's faces and call them sheep" or "I'm gonna pull my pistol on someone in the store telling me to wear a mask" selfish.

I agree we are firmly to a point where we should just be able to maintain distancing, cleanliness/sanitation, and masks without it being an issue. 

Life should get back to normal, with precautions is all.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2020)

Interesting NYT article hypothesizing that many COVID-positive people had so little of the disease they may not have been contageous:

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.


----------



## compforce (Sep 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Interesting NYT article hypothesizing that many COVID-positive people had so little of the disease they may not have been contageous:
> 
> Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.



Gee, that looks a lot like the one I said it would be interesting to hear your take on....  



> Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.
> 
> If this is accurate (I'd love to hear @Devildoc 's take on this) then those numbers are highly inflated, just like all of the COVID numbers have been. There are multiple accounts of healthcare professionals sending in samples that weren't actually swabbed and having positive results come back. Now this article is suggesting that between 70-80+ % of the positives may be due to the process of testing rather than the prevalence of the virus. How do we reconcile these?



Corona Virus (Thanks China)


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2020)

compforce said:


> Gee, that looks a lot like the one I said it would be interesting to hear your take on....
> 
> 
> 
> Corona Virus (Thanks China)



Lol, how the fuck did I ever miss that??  Sorry, man... (Face-palming now....)

We have felt this but not been able to quantify it. There are a lot of people who are testing positive who are literally back at work in 3 days feeling fine. The tests have become so sensitive but clearly people are not getting to the point of being contagious when other people in the household are not getting sick.  For the problem is that for the first three months of this thing doctors were reporting people as "presumptive positive" based on symptoms without ever doing the test. now we have people who are taking the test and are positive but may not be contagious at all.


----------



## compforce (Sep 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Lol, how the fuck did I ever miss that??  Sorry, man... (Face-palming now....)
> 
> We have felt this but not been able to quantify it. There are a lot of people who are testing positive who are literally back at work in 3 days feeling fine. The tests have become so sensitive but clearly people are not getting to the point of being contagious when other people in the household are not getting sick.  For the problem is that for the first three months of this thing doctors were reporting people as "presumptive positive" based on symptoms without ever doing the test. now we have people who are taking the test and are positive but may not be contagious at all.



What's your feeling on the other professionals in the article saying that positive at 40 cycles is ridiculous and that it shouldn't be counted positive over 33-35 cycles?


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 1, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> All of this back and forth about the numbers reminds me of something Michael Osterholm said on Joe Rogan:
> 
> (Paraphrasing) "The catch 22 with pandemic response is that, if it works and we catch it in time, people won't believe the disease was as bad as we thought".
> 
> Sure, we shut the country down for _only_ 6% deaths from COVID alone, but we have no idea what those numbers would have been had everything stayed open.


I don't know.  I go back to my previous post above... 

We should have plenty of data now. The Sturgis rally was a nearly perfect control group; no masks, no social distancing, crowd of 460,000 behaving like heathens. And what do we have to show for it? Transmission rate of .03 - .04%?!  We know the at risk populations and they remain the at risk populations. 

Everything else is mostly noise...  remember flatten the curve, 15 days to slow the spread, we shut everything down, then we had to mass produce ventilators, then ERs were going to be overrun, in MN the state even purchased a warehouse building to serve as a makeshift morgue for all of the bodies that were going to pile up. We had to have testing, then we needed contact tracing. Then, we all had to wear masks everywhere...   All the while, the virus just did what it did.

So, while it's difficult to quantify, if someone is interested in honestly and objectively going back and sifting through data, we probably can make some reasonable conclusions.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

Nancy needed a blow-out. 

Pelosi used shuttered San Francisco hair salon for blow-out, owner calls it 'slap in the face'


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 1, 2020)

I'll need to read this over again. 

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2020)

He continues.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300905954666360832
I wonder if people will stop voting Democrat any time soon in LA?


----------



## AWP (Sep 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We have felt this but not been able to quantify it. There are a lot of people who are testing positive who are literally back at work in 3 days feeling fine. The tests have become so sensitive but clearly people are not getting to the point of being contagious when other people in the household are not getting sick.



Were they actually positive? Did they actually have the disease? As I posted earlier, an RN friend of ours, at her hospital some of the docs sent off blank swabs that came back CV-19 positive. They did this twice. There are 6+ "positive" cases on the books for tests that were never taken.

Without cross referencing anitbody tests with "known" positive cases, we'll never know. We destroyed a global economy over one of the most haphazard and broken testing programs in medical history.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> Were they actually positive? Did they actually have the disease? As I posted earlier, an RN friend of ours, at her hospital some of the docs sent off blank swabs that came back CV-19 positive. They did this twice. There are 6+ "positive" cases on the books for tests that were never taken.
> 
> Without cross referencing anitbody tests with "known" positive cases, we'll never know. We destroyed a global economy over one of the most haphazard and broken testing programs in medical history.



They probably were positive.  How many of us have had a cold, been around people, but those people not get sick?  Either they have antibodies, or the level of your cold is such that the virulence is really low.  How many people have tested positive yet say they feel like the only thing they have is "a bad cold," and others around them do not get sick?

In theory I would love to see people get two tests in one: one to see if they have it, and one to check antibodies.  But that will never happen.


----------



## Dame (Sep 2, 2020)

PineTree said:


> @Devildoc But, I challenge you to come up with a better reason to explain why between 100k-250k Americans are dead who normally wouldn't be.


Boomers. Death rates will continue to climb for a decade or so now that the Boomers are all over 55.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 2, 2020)

Are you tested for Covid 19, or any Covid?


----------



## Deleted member 15200 (Sep 2, 2020)

@Dame Population dynamics are accounted for in those predictions


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 2, 2020)

PineTree said:


> @Dame Population dynamics are accounted for in those predictions



Population dynamics are notoriously unreliable, but often the best we got.  Most "past performance predicts future results"-type of equations based on 'n' died per year so we'll tack that number plus/minus formulas don't account for changes in clinical quality in the >65 population.  Too many variables, and the margin of error is too great.

Provisional data, inability to control undefined variables, and double-dipping of the data are indeed troublesome in trying to figure this out.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 2, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Population dynamics are notoriously unreliable, but often the best we got.  Most "past performance predicts future results"-type of equations based on 'n' died per year so we'll tack that number plus/minus formulas don't account for changes in clinical quality in the >65 population.  Too many variables, and the margin of error is too great.
> 
> Provisional data, inability to control undefined variables, and double-dipping of the data are indeed troublesome in trying to figure this out.


Seems as accurate as polling. Or Studies from the NIH.  You can find at least one study on the NIH site to support a conclusion.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 2, 2020)

A new study. 

Steroids cut death rates among critically ill COVID-19 patients, major study finds


----------



## Dame (Sep 2, 2020)

PineTree said:


> @Dame Population dynamics are accounted for in those predictions


You asked for a better reason and as @Devildoc said, the statistics are unreliable. I am looking at my experience with coworkers. Lost another one this weekend. Deaths up 7% from last year could be age/stress related alone considering the Boomers tend to work longer.
ETA: 2020 alone should be considered a stress factor IMHO.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 2, 2020)

You know what’s wild?  More police have been killed by COVID-19 this year than all other causes COMBINED

Officer Down Memorial Page: 2020


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 6, 2020)

Law Enforcement is losing a lot of support from the people.  Nashville PD seems to think it's smart to arrest people and put them in jail overnight because they won't wear a mask. 

Man on Broadway ignores police commands to wear face covering, is arrested

Not the first one either.

Nashville police arrest man, issue 20 citations Friday for violating mask mandate

Nashville Police: 4 arrested, 38 cited during enhanced mask enforcement this weekend

_______________

Looking at sport.  Alistair Brownlee competed in WTS Hamburg on Saturday finishing 9th.  He then flew back to the UK and competed in the Helvellyn triathlon taking 1st.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 6, 2020)

Salt USMC said:


> You know what’s wild?  More police have been killed by COVID-19 this year than all other causes COMBINED
> 
> Officer Down Memorial Page: 2020



I recall having read an article some years ago, a journal article, with autopsies of military members and police officers who died from non-traumatic injuries at an earlier than expected age. One of the key findings was that the heart was aged significantly, hypothesis being the stress response and cortisone in those particular professions.  I cannot help but to wonder if this is a similar thing, men who may not be in the best of shape, whose immune system is a little ragged because the flight or fight response, whose increased cortisol is on a nearly perpetual "on" state.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 6, 2020)

MLB Coronavirus Clownshow:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302723269364248584


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> MLB Coronavirus Clownshow:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302723269364248584



And the crowd goes ape shit over that call!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 6, 2020)

Literally one of the dumbest fucking things I’ve ever seen. Joe West is a power hungry cunt.


----------



## 757 (Sep 6, 2020)

San Francisco gym owners livid after discovering gyms in government buildings have been opened for months

Oof


----------



## Dame (Sep 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I recall having read an article some years ago, a journal article, with autopsies of military members and police officers who died from non-traumatic injuries at an earlier than expected age. One of the key findings was that the heart was aged significantly, hypothesis being the stress response and cortisone in those particular professions.  I cannot help but to wonder if this is a similar thing, men who may not be in the best of shape, whose immune system is a little ragged because the flight or fight response, whose increased cortisol is on a nearly perpetual "on" state.


Correct. Heart disease in law enforcement officers is an automatic "on the job" injury and is figured into medical retirements as such.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 7, 2020)

757 said:


> San Francisco gym owners livid after discovering gyms in government buildings have been opened for months
> 
> Oof


Not surprised.  Not in SF, but you had DeBlasio going way back in March when he had closed gyms.

De Blasio defends going to the gym amid outbreak: 'I need exercise to be able to stay healthy and make decisions'


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 7, 2020)

I've been wondering about this.  

Scientists can’t explain puzzling lack of coronavirus outbreaks in Africa


----------



## Board and Seize (Sep 8, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I've been wondering about this.
> 
> Scientists can’t explain puzzling lack of coronavirus outbreaks in Africa


Duh, no 5G towers there...


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 8, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> Duh, no 5G towers there...


_Shhhhhh.  Nobody tell him

rain Launches First Commercial 5G Network in Africa with Huawei_


----------



## CQB (Sep 9, 2020)

There goes the neighborhood.


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 9, 2020)

Have you seen the argument related to the liberal application of symptoms like kawasakis disease to COVID, but it's more likely to be coming from EMF emissions like from 5G towers? 

I'm not suggesting it's true, but it's a more compelling case than just saying 5G causes COVID


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 10, 2020)

Always gotta get sum

Sources: League investigating Danuel House Jr. for allegedly allowing female testing official into hotel room


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 11, 2020)

I wonder how much longer she lives. 

Virologist claims coronavirus is manmade


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 12, 2020)

JFC. We arresting kids because they want to be at school now. 

Student arrested for showing up to school in protest of virtual learning


----------



## Florida173 (Sep 14, 2020)

The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020

Wondering if we're going to have an even worse flu season after the hysteria goes away. Flu season is going to be rough for productivity since anyone with the sniffles will be sent home for 2 weeks.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 14, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
> 
> Wondering if we're going to have an even worse flu season after the hysteria goes away. Flu season is going to be rough for productivity since anyone with the sniffles will be sent home for 2 weeks.



The vaccine is quadrivalent; it targets the most common 4 strains.  Our institution is very concerned about flu + COVID because invariably people will get the flu from yet a different strain.


----------



## CQB (Sep 14, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> The southern hemisphere skipped flu season in 2020
> 
> Wondering if we're going to have an even worse flu season after the hysteria goes away. Flu season is going to be rough for productivity since anyone with the sniffles will be sent home for 2 weeks.


Numbers are waaay down here, Flu cases here are usually in the thousands & we’ve had about 600 or so. It’s kinda interesting in another way as the northern hemisphere looks at the Southern Hemispheres flu season & builds its vax from that. This year will be a little different with not much to go on.


----------



## AWP (Sep 14, 2020)

With clinical trials wrapping up the UAE has approved the vaccine for use by front-line workers treating CV-19 patients.

UAE approves COVID-19 vaccine for front-line workers

Coronavirus: UAE authorises emergency use of vaccine for frontline workers


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 15, 2020)

Interesting developments under the "Holy S**t!" Tweet


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306028185931395072


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 15, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Interesting developments under the "Holy S**t!" Tweet
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306028185931395072


Yep. China is asshole and our MSM and bureaucrats that denied China's involvement are traitors. Hope that Chinese money they sold us out for gets seized and turned into hate that'll eventually rain down on China.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 15, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Yep. China is asshole and our MSM and bureaucrats that denied China's involvement are traitors. Hope that Chinese money they sold us out for gets seized and turned into hate that'll eventually rain down on China.



It's gonna be reeeeeal interesting if this thread gets pulled on. Can't be good. Though, I can't even imagine how they'd prove something like this to the world. Until then, probably best for me to stow it away in the bank


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Sep 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> It's gonna be reeeeeal interesting if this thread gets pulled on. Can't be good. Though, I can't even imagine how they'd prove something like this to the world. Until then, probably best for me to stow it away in the bank


I'd start with going through financial records and business dealings of our bureaucrats with Chicom companies, their subsidiaries, and their citizens. The difficult thing would be trying to educate the public to how deep the rot goes. Both on a financial and ideological level.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 16, 2020)

Hungry_Dog said:


> Interesting developments under the "Holy S**t!" Tweet
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306028185931395072



That's one person and on Tucker Carlon. If this were true it would have been exposed by more of the 100s of 1000s of scientists working on the thing by now.


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Sep 16, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> That's one person and on Tucker Carlon. If this were true it would have been exposed by more of the 100s of 1000s of scientists working on the thing by now.



You could be right, but we sat on the Epstein story for 3 years as well. Who can tell?

Edit: Twitter has hopped in to corral us once again. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306231520202498050


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 16, 2020)

I posit she's trying to stay in the limelight for whatever reason. Other virologists have said she's basically trying to publish non peer reviewed rubbish and even the publisher isn't a scientific publication but rather some political guys. I don't put a lot of credibility in her.


----------



## AWP (Sep 16, 2020)

I'm curious about the context that could lie 3-4 layers away. The people burying her....how are they funded? Who approved their doctoral degrees, who sits on the board of the places they work, from whom do they receive their funding...

Before anyone thinks I'm making a case for....well, any position, the above is how our filthy world works. "Follow the money" but also "follow the influence" because simple stories aren't always simple.

People suck. Always have.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 16, 2020)

Those are always good questions to ask and I don't have that info myself but I do still believe that if this were a probability that someone somewhere else would have raised it too.


----------



## DA SWO (Sep 16, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Those are always good questions to ask and I don't have that info myself but I do still believe that if this were a probability that someone somewhere else would have raised it too.


We could know it, and the intel communities would try to suppress as a TTP issue.
Just because it's a lab work doesn't mean it was purposely released, but China would "lose face" if their shitty lab procedures became general knowledge, so protecting the party becomes job #1.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 16, 2020)

You know, the whole thing about Mayors making bad decisions. 

COVID-19 emails from Nashville mayor's office show disturbing revelation


----------



## Intel Nerd (Sep 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You know, the whole thing about Mayors making bad decisions.
> 
> COVID-19 emails from Nashville mayor's office show disturbing revelation



Not shocked even slightly. And people wonder why credibility and confidence in governance is waning..


----------



## AWP (Sep 17, 2020)

I'm going to engage in some whataboutism to prove a point about media bias.

Trump, he's the president so he should be held to a higher standard, lied to keep people from panicking (his story). Got it, check, roger. The press has obliterated him. Again, he should be held to a higher standard.

A Democrat mayor and his staff deliberately withheld the numbers and used fraudulent data to close restaurants and bars. You barely see a peep in the media. CNN and MSNBC...zero coverage. Nothing on their websites.

Again, Trump should be held to a higher standard with a proportional response from the media IMO. With that said, liberal news organizations won't even cover the story? Not one bit?

Kind of makes it hard for a case that the media is unbiased.

ETA; Spelling are hard


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 20, 2020)

Absolutely outstanding podcast and a quick listen.

‎Verdict with Ted Cruz: False Positive ft. Steve Deace on Apple Podcasts


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

Talk about things I didn't expect to see...a Pro Trump/Anti-Covid rally in Montreal.  Oh those Quebecois don't take no shit lol.

100,000 in Montreal Canada March for Freedom — They Chant ‘USA-USA-USA,’ Fly ‘Trump 2020’ Flags & Protest Overbearing COVID-19 Policies

@RackMaster


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Talk about things I didn't expect to see...a Pro Trump/Anti-Covid rally in Montreal.  Oh those Quebecois don't take no shit lol.
> 
> 100,000 in Montreal Canada March for Freedom — They Chant ‘USA-USA-USA,’ Fly ‘Trump 2020’ Flags & Protest Overbearing COVID-19 Policies
> 
> @RackMaster



They've been picking up momentum, not just in Montréal.  They just draw the biggest crowds.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2020)

This is just really dumb, if restaurants are able to operate at 75% seating capacity there is no reason for bars to be closed and same with distilleries. 

Texas bars and distilleries rip Gov. Greg Abbott for leaving them out of "unacceptable" reopening plan


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 20, 2020)

@ThunderHorse    This should clear up everything.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

Victoria, AUS, Police doing their best to be hated by the people, also love the shithead photographers getting in on the action.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1307761152387092483


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 21, 2020)

So first the CDC gives this guidance, which most of us probably guessed already. 

U.S. CDC backtracks on coronavirus airborne transmission guidance


And now a retraction. 

CDC stumbles again, mistakenly posting 'draft' guidance on airborne Covid spread


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So first the CDC gives this guidance, which most of us probably guessed already.
> 
> U.S. CDC backtracks on coronavirus airborne transmission guidance
> 
> ...


Here's the deal, there's not a fucking chance in hell I'm believing that the virus spreads well beyond 6-feet.  If anything it would have to be significantly less.  Because, given how contagious this has been, how have we not seen these riots and protests falling apart because of COVID-19 infections?


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 21, 2020)

What scientific evidence do you have that leads you to that belief?


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Here's the deal, there's not a fucking chance in hell I'm believing that the virus spreads well beyond 6-feet.  If anything it would have to be significantly less.  Because, given how contagious this has been, how have we not seen these riots and protests falling apart because of COVID-19 infections?



It could be argued that mitigation factors (masks/public health) are effective, and that the theory COVID is not dangerous in UV light may hold some weight. Simulated Sunlight Rapidly Inactivates SARS-CoV-2 on Surfaces

I'm pulling these screenshot from the CDC so take the data for what you will; but it does look like cases trended highest around when protest where most reverent, but deaths have been trending down; possibly better treatments, or perhaps people with less comorbidities getting it?





It does seem that certain states are being hit more, but the connection between protests/infection isn't clear to me without digging into what's happening in those states specifically. Like, I get that Cali, Wisconsin, and Georgia could be protest related, but Texas/Florida/Tennessee?


----------



## GOTWA (Sep 21, 2020)

When the CDC came out with the statistics for strictly COVID caused deaths, the tracker on google changed to reflect it. The other day I checked it and it was back to the normal count (195k+) and it said COVID "Linked" deaths. Now it's back to the original stats again. Am I missing something?


----------



## Kaldak (Sep 21, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> It could be argued that mitigation factors (masks/public health) are effective, and that the theory COVID is not dangerous in UV light may hold some weight. Simulated Sunlight Rapidly Inactivates SARS-CoV-2 on Surfaces
> 
> I'm pulling these screenshot from the CDC so take the data for what you will; but it does look like cases trended highest around when protest where most reverent, but deaths have been trending down; possibly better treatments, or perhaps people with less comorbidities getting it?
> 
> ...



Didn't you hear? Here in Wisconsin it is all due to students existing. Or, so I've been told 🙄

But, definitely not the protests (riots).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 21, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> What scientific evidence do you have that leads you to that belief?


Absolutely none other than the fact I've been living and within in the confines of the current restrictions and exposed to enough people that we should open the bitch up.

You had "scientific" experts saying that anti-lockdown protests spread the virus and then that Anti-Police violence protests didn't. They're linked in this thread. 

The people, everywhere have been done with this stupidity for a long time.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 21, 2020)

Thanks.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 21, 2020)

And then this. 

US Congressional report condemns China, WHO for COVID 'cover-up'


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 22, 2020)

Expert claims Sweden now has 'herd immunity' from coronavirus


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 24, 2020)

And now it's fighting back... 

COVID-19 mutation may be evolving to bypass mask-wearing, hand-washing


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2020)

No peer review so let's take it with a tonne of salt for the meantime.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 24, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And now it's fighting back...
> 
> COVID-19 mutation may be evolving to bypass mask-wearing, hand-washing


Data on masks was always inconclusive.  But how the heck would the damn thing survive hand washing?


----------



## Jaknight (Sep 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Data on masks was always inconclusive.  But how the heck would the damn thing survive hand washing?


----------



## Totentanz (Sep 24, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> No peer review so let's take it with a tonne of salt for the meantime.



I'm reporting this post for misleading medical advice.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 24, 2020)

Totentanz said:


> I'm reporting this post for misleading medical advice.



That's it prepare to be cancelled.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 25, 2020)

Ugh, masks.  Don't get me started.  There is an ID doc at UCSF that talks about masks, basically unless you have a N95 or better, it's not going to stop it....BUT, what it probably does, is blunt the 'dose' of the innoculate so if you do get it the effects are less severe.

Masks May Do More Than We Think (w/Dr. Monica Gandhi)


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 25, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Ugh, masks.  Don't get me started.  There is an ID doc at UCSF that talks about masks, basically unless you have a N95 or better, it's not going to stop it....BUT, what it probably does, is blunt the 'dose' of the innoculate so if you do get it the effects are less severe.
> 
> Masks May Do More Than We Think (w/Dr. Monica Gandhi)



This is a theory I can get behind for mask usage.  It makes more sense than the whole "it's not to protect you, it's to protect other's" BS.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 25, 2020)

Another case of reinfection. 

Boy tests positive for coronavirus again two weeks after recovering


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 25, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Another case of reinfection.
> 
> Boy tests positive for coronavirus again two weeks after recovering



Not COVID, but when I was 15 I stayed sick the entire time my family got the flu.  I was the first one and then it cycled through my entire family one by one and I was out of school for a whole month.  It was awful.  That was fall of 2003.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 28, 2020)

Shark based vaccine? I guess.

Coronavirus: Half a million sharks 'could be killed for vaccine', experts warn


----------



## AWP (Sep 28, 2020)

This page alone, page 136 of the thread, is enough reason to disbelieve every possible figure, statistic, belief, hypothesis, and wild ass dream about CV-19.

Sharks, reinfection, mask viability, mutation, and China...on one page alone.

The numbers are bullshit. However bad the virus is, or not, you're trusting a lie, you're buying into a story. Maybe you believe the right story, maybe not, that's for historians to decide.

I trust a cat more than I trust CV-19 "data".


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Shark based vaccine? I guess.
> 
> Coronavirus: Half a million sharks 'could be killed for vaccine', experts warn


Cue the Sharknado...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 29, 2020)

This is Football related too, but at a certain juncture this is ridiculous. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1310951802125328385


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 29, 2020)

No covid in space... 

Elon Musk says he won’t take coronavirus vaccine, calls Bill Gates a ‘knucklehead’


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> CDC: One quarter of young adults contemplated suicide during pandemic
> 
> Tell me something I didn't know.  Humans are actually a social species.  We want to be around our friends and interact with others.  Lockdowns are bad for mental health, full stop.


More testimony to, what I believe, is a very understated mental health component to the virus response, particularly among young people:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311031806934876167


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 1, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> More testimony to, what I believe, is a very understated mental health component to the virus response, particularly among young people:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311031806934876167



On the mental health side, this is heartbreaking.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article246114855.html

_______________

Also, wait, borders should have been open and we shouldn't be in lockdown?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311400442996363264
I am beyond confused.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 1, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> On the mental health side, this is heartbreaking.
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article246114855.html


The anecdotal examples are seemingly endless, which means at some point they're no longer anecdotal:
Military suicides up as much as 20% in COVID era

And then there's this gut-wrenching video (if your eyes don't well up watching this, you're not human):





To me, this is one of the critical issues of the moment.  It's driving behavioral changes in numerous ways.  It's my belief this is a much more serious issue than many are willing to acknowledge and this will have lasting impact long after the virus subsides.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 1, 2020)

I have questions.  I'm curious as to what the suicide rates were relative to the level of illness during other epidemics or pandemics in which quarantine and social isolation were used.  Cannot compare apples to oranges I am aware, for instance, the Spanish flu was during a time in which a lot of people are more isolated simply because of the lack of the technology we have now. But still, I'm curious as to correlation, causation, and linkage.

Also curious as to the suicide rate with people who are infected versus non-infected.

This is a real thing, and is not being talked about nearly enough.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 1, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I have questions.  I'm curious as to what the suicide rates were relative to the level of illness during other epidemics or pandemics in which quarantine and social isolation were used.  Cannot compare apples to oranges I am aware, for instance, the Spanish flu was during a time in which a lot of people are more isolated simply because of the lack of the technology we have now. But still, I'm curious as to correlation, causation, and linkage.
> 
> Also curious as to the suicide rate with people who are infected versus non-infected.
> 
> This is a real thing, and is not being talked about nearly enough.


Agree...I too am curious to know the answers to some of those questions.  However, as this this article apoints out, I just don't think we have the kind of info needed for those answers.  If someone has info showing otherwise, please share.


----------



## digrar (Oct 1, 2020)

No spike in suicides in Victoria during COVID-19 lockdowns, coroners court figures show.



> Victoria's lockdown has not yet seen a spike in suicides compared to last year, according to new data released today by the state's coroner.
> 
> Key points:​
> There have been 466 suicides so far this year in Victoria
> ...


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 1, 2020)

digrar said:


> No spike in suicides in Victoria during COVID-19 lockdowns, coroners court figures show.


This is great to hear.


----------



## digrar (Oct 1, 2020)

One swallow does not a summer make. But it does seem that in our neck of the woods, it's only tipping the usual suspects over the edge.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 1, 2020)

And then there's the loss in education and social development of our children. 

No clear link between school opening and COVID surge, study finds


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 1, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And then there's the loss in education and social development of our children.
> 
> No clear link between school opening and COVID surge, study finds


The data on Children under 18 seems to be relatively clear, they have limited rate of infection and even more limited fatality rate.  There is no reason for schools not to be open.


----------



## AWP (Oct 2, 2020)

All discussions about Trumps testing positive for CV-19 are moved to the politics thread.

@amlove21 you got a soft delete since it is in the politics thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 2, 2020)

Michigan Supreme Court rules against Governor Whitmer's use of the Michigan Emergency Powers and Governance Act


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312136865361752066


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 2, 2020)

Let the law suits commence...


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> All discussions about Trumps testing positive for CV-19 are moved to the politics thread.
> 
> @amlove21 you got a soft delete since it is in the politics thread.


Oh I meant to post in both and for the same feeling to happen in BOTH threads. Ill take the soft delete though.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 3, 2020)

So Whitmer is going to implement her restrictions through "other means". 

High court strikes down Whitmer's emergency powers; gov vows to use other means

I'm not sure if she's noticed, but there's like 20 court cases against her regarding emergency powers authorization.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So Whitmer is going to implement her restrictions through "other means".
> 
> High court strikes down Whitmer's emergency powers; gov vows to use other means
> 
> I'm not sure if she's noticed, but there's like 20 court cases against her regarding emergency powers authorization.


I wish MN had some success challenging our Gov's power but sadly all have failed so far. The was the law was written, if the Gov's party also controls part of the legislature, it's nearly impossible to revoke his power.  Which is why these strategies, like executive orders, will become increasingly more prevalent ways to circumvent our governmental process.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 3, 2020)

I don't see Trudeau and many Canadian's going for this.  Unless Biden wins, then overnight the evil from the orange bad man goes away.  

Senators ask Trump to end blanket closure of U.S.-Canada border


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 4, 2020)

JFC...New York, you get what you vote for. Enjoy I guess.  Sorry for you folks. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312796112777105410



RackMaster said:


> I don't see Trudeau and many Canadian's going for this.  Unless Biden wins, then overnight the evil from the orange bad man goes away.
> 
> Senators ask Trump to end blanket closure of U.S.-Canada bord



Isn't this like a mutual closure?  However, I can tell you that the air bridge continues to be open as the Snowbirds have started to arrive.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 4, 2020)

@ThunderHorse yes it's mutual but I'm sure it's stricter on our side.  We only just allowed family members to join Canadian's from the US, in Canada. 
 We have international flights daily and I'm sure someone infected on almost every flight.  I think our insurance provider's only recently created covid specific travel policies.  I don't think you'll see the same numbers as you did previously.  The majority drive across and are stranded here with their American vehicles.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 4, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> @ThunderHorse yes it's mutual but I'm sure it's stricter on our side.  We only just allowed family members to join Canadian's from the US, in Canada.
> We have international flights daily and I'm sure someone infected on almost every flight.  I think our insurance provider's only recently created covid specific travel policies.  I don't think you'll see the same numbers as you did previously.  The majority drive across and are stranded here with their American vehicles.


That might explain why some people I know have been able to cross the border and hang out in Canada after doing their 14 days.   I see a lot of Canadian plates down here in the winter.


_______________

Heard masks were great for the Ocean...


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


----------



## AWP (Oct 4, 2020)

If idiots were responsible with their trash there wouldn't be that state-sized ball of shit swirling about in the Pacific.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 4, 2020)

AWP said:


> If idiots were responsible with their trash there wouldn't be that state-sized ball of shit swirling about in the Pacific.



We're too short sighted as a species to be concerned with matters like that or the effects of pollution and green house gases. We'll either annihilate each other or use the planet like a two dollar prostitute on half price day before we ever realize what we've done.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 4, 2020)

Lol. Tell it to China and the rest of the third world and even if you did they wouldn't give two shits.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

POTUS doesn't seem to be adjusting his safety posture to reflect his diagnosis or the heightened risk to others around him :

Walter Reed attending physician swipes at Trump for motorcade visit to supporters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312867868028141568


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> POTUS doesn't seem to be adjusting his safety posture to reflect his diagnosis or the heightened risk to others around him :
> 
> Walter Reed attending physician swipes at Trump for motorcade visit to supporters
> 
> ...


People keep saying that as if those around him don't have a choice.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> POTUS doesn't seem to be adjusting his safety posture to reflect his diagnosis or the heightened risk to others around him :
> 
> Walter Reed attending physician swipes at Trump for motorcade visit to supporters
> 
> ...


Dr Schmuckatelli, get off twitter.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dr Schmuckatelli, get off twitter.


What exactly did this attending physician say to make him a Schmuckatelli in your book?


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> What exactly did this attending physician say to make him a Schmuckatelli in your book?



Not to speak for @ThunderHorse but I'd imagine it has to do with the absolute outrage and I'd argue pearl clutching shown in the tweet. Do I agree with POTUS being out and about while still infected? No, not really. But the absolute rage being shown all across social media is pretty ridiculous and not to mention tone deaf when just a month or two ago hundred's of thousands of people were in close proximity many without masks yet it was largely reported that the cause was worth more than any potential spread of CV19.

I just feel like the reaction is a little much considering POTUS is semi-isolating himself in a vehicle.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> But the absolute rage being shown all across social media is pretty ridiculous and not to mention tone deaf when just a month or two ago hundred's of thousands of people were in close proximity many without masks yet it was largely reported that the cause was worth more than any potential spread of CV19.


Depending on the history of the person doing the raging, I agree that it could be tone deaf and hypocritical. 

I don't think it makes either any less worthy of condemnation.


SaintKP said:


> I just feel like the reaction is a little much considering POTUS is semi-isolating himself in a vehicle.


Do you think Dr. Phillip's role as a front-line health care professional who risks his life every day to save lives and prevent people from contracting COVID-19, as well as Trump's position as head of state and the direct message his actions communicate to other people (if you're infected it's ok to break isolation and share airtight cramped quarters with people who you can infect and will themselves need to quarantine) help to bring more context and understandability to the level of reaction by Phillips?


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2020)

You could argue the difference between taking a bullet for the president rather than a bullet from the president, but the USSS are professionals in the business of risk prevention, avoidance, mitigation, etc.

Do I agree with Trump doing this photo op? Absolutely not. Do I think a bunch of professionals did everything in their power to mitigate the risk? Absolutely.

It shouldn't have happened IMO, but millions of Americans are making worse choices every day with fewer precautions and for less gain.


----------



## Bypass (Oct 5, 2020)

Well..........I for one am happy to see him out and about. Gives me hope that he is going to pull through this and kick the China virus in the ass.

GOD speed Mister President.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Depending on the history of the person doing the raging, I agree that it could be tone deaf and hypocritical.
> 
> I don't think it makes either any less worthy of condemnation.
> 
> Do you think Dr. Phillip's role as a front-line health care professional who risks his life every day to save lives and prevent people from contracting COVID-19, as well as Trump's position as head of state and the direct message his actions communicate to other people (if you're infected it's ok to break isolation and share airtight cramped quarters with people who you can infect and will themselves need to quarantine) help to bring more context and understandability to the level of reaction by Phillips?



Dr. Phillip has an extensive history of being critical of POTUS on Twitter, not in the balanced sense but more of the "200K+ deaths are on your hands" sense. 

As I said, I don't agree with POTUS going out while infected that is tone deaf as well. But I feel the reaction from both the Media and Social Media is a little much considering the little concern they had just a few months ago. Not to he was in an enclosed space surrounded by people (Secret Service) that all know the risks but still took an oath and most likely did as much risk mitigation possible. Not like he was walking around supporters or holding a press conference.

Dumb political stunt when he could have did a livestream or something? Yes. Worthy of the through the roof outrage on display right now? Nah not really imo.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Dr Schmuckatelli, get off twitter.


?

So what exactly makes this attending physician at Walter Reed a “Schmuckatelli”?

His not staying in step with whatever the internal memo said they were supposed to do/say?


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Dr. Phillip has an extensive history of being critical of POTUS on Twitter, not in the balanced sense but more of the "200K+ deaths are on your hands" sense.


A few links exemplifying this extensive history of criticism would be helpful.  I found a link of him joining other physicians back on March 3rd in correctly calling it a pandemic ahead of the WHO and urging others to dismiss social media panic and instead follow the guidance of health care professionals and the CDC as their information is updated.  

I'm an emergency doctor. I expect to get coronavirus


SaintKP said:


> Not to he was in an enclosed space surrounded by people (Secret Service) that all know the risks but still took an oath and *most likely did as much risk mitigation possible.*


If this was the case the administration wouldn't have even considered executing such an unnecessary and dangerous political stunt in the first place.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

Dr. Phillips is not on Trump's medical team; so far as I know, he's never met Trump.  He is a civilian ED doc (interesting, also a "CNN medical analyst").  As he is a civilian contractor and not a military doc, I don't give two shits what he thinks.  Maybe Trump cleared it with his doc?  Maybe the SS were in N95s?  He doesn't know, and is likely letting his personal feelings override his professional feelings.

At any rate, it's simply one of those things where, like almost everything else, it doesn't matter what Trump does: damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> it doesn't matter what Trump does: damned if he does, damned if he doesn't


Trump has no one to blame for that perception other than himself.

He can blame MSM all he wants, but they don’t really have to work that hard to make him look out-of-touch.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 5, 2020)

^^^ agreed.

The guy who openly flaunted health and wellness guidelines is still flaunting them, and has no one to blame but himself.

He wants to show he's "strong and determined", but apparently the video message he shot/the photos of him still working at Walter Reed weren't enough.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Trump has no one to blame for that perception other than himself.
> 
> He can blame MSM all he wants, but they don’t really have to work that hard to make him look out-of-touch.



I don't know that I entirely buy that.  But that's a dead horse that we've beaten here ad nauseum.

If he cured cancer the MSM would bitch that he caused unemployment for doctors.  It's just the way that it is.  So when a doc goes off about irresponsibility, when there is no evidence that he has any insight into the actual situation, why should anyone take it with any weight?

Edited to add, I have no opinion about his actual Tour de Walter Reed.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 5, 2020)

The POTUS medical team in the press conference said they'd be discharging him because he was doing well. What is the issue here?


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Keeping the replies here until asked otherwise by moderating staff.


ThunderHorse said:


> This is now about politics so I'm moving my response here.  But I'd engage both of you to take a look at his twitter feed.  It's what I would call a "mess".


Could you provide any other examples of the mess?  You've only shown the one we've already seen and then another much tamer one from the same news cycle mentioning that he'll give his own assessment of the medical team release (which news media contributors regularly do across all stations).


ThunderHorse said:


> Many workplaces have a code of conduct.  The fact that he is grandstanding on social isn't because he's got any sense of altruism it is because he wants to expand his platform and make money.


Non-altruistic motives wouldn't nullify the points being raised in this discussion.


ThunderHorse said:


> Being an "attending physician" at Walter Reed is cool and stuff, but he's using his position as a random civilian doctor with a job at Walter Reed to enable himself to grow his platform.  He isn't giving us data he's giving us opinion.


He is not a Schmuckatelli for airing his medically-based public health concerns about the President's behavior.  His professional medical opinion is based on literal CDC and globally-corroborated medical guidelines for managing COVID-19-infected patients. 

No one gets a pass on this for political convenience (including protestors) - most especially a head of state who should be setting the example for his nation by demonstrating strict adherence to the protocol rather than broadcasting reckless endangerment borne out of political self-interest.


ThunderHorse said:


> He's also attacking the president for putting on a "show", which is kind of what the man does, however we also have enemies out there and the "show" is probably also for them.  In addition, tweets like this are bloody irresponsible and I hope he gets canned.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312869454385229827


The only thing 'bloody' irresponsible about this event is putting several members of your own protective unit, their families, and anyone with whom they all come in contact in further jeopardy to perform a reckless political stunt that could have been achieved without imposing -any- of these additional risks to the public from the comfort of your own multi-room hospital-provided presidential suite.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 5, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> ^^^ agreed.
> 
> The guy who openly flaunted health and wellness guidelines is still flaunting them, and has no one to blame but himself.
> 
> He wants to show he's "strong and determined", but apparently the video message he shot/the photos of him still working at Walter Reed weren't enough.



He was criticized for the photo ops inside Walter Reed, as well.  He could have been on a ventilator and they'd criticize him for not working. 

Trump mocked for signing apparently blank paper in ‘staged’ photos at Walter Reed


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> If idiots were responsible with their trash there wouldn't be that state-sized ball of shit swirling about in the Pacific.





R.Caerbannog said:


> Lol. Tell it to China and the rest of the third world and even if you did they wouldn't give two shits.


Yep.  


Locksteady said:


> POTUS doesn't seem to be adjusting his safety posture to reflect his diagnosis or the heightened risk to others around him :
> 
> Walter Reed attending physician swipes at Trump for motorcade visit to supporters
> 
> ...


There is a difference between being infected and being contagious. 
But OMG! He has da 'rona!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Keeping the replies here until asked otherwise by moderating staff.
> 
> Could you provide any other examples of the mess?  You've only shown the one we've already seen and then another much tamer one from the same news cycle mentioning that he'll give his own assessment of the medical team release (which news media contributors regularly do across all stations).
> 
> ...


No, he's being another asshole in a world full of assholes.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> The only thing 'bloody' irresponsible about this event is putting several members of your own protective unit, their families, and anyone with whom they all come in contact in further jeopardy to perform a reckless political stunt that could have been achieved without imposing -any- of these additional risks to the public from the comfort of your own multi-room hospital-provided presidential suite.



And you know this....how?  because you are a medical provider?  You are on the down-low of his medical team's advice?  This is an assumption made based on your politics and worldview.

This is why I did not comment much on whether he should have/should not have.  We do not know what his docs said.  If masks work, especially N95s (which pics show the USSS personnel were wearing), then there should not have been a problem, right?  We do not know the extent of what went on behind the scenes.

Without more information this is not any different than any other topic people use with which to clutch pearls (specific to the good Doc Phillips, not addressing to you).


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 5, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> He was criticized for the photo ops inside Walter Reed, as well.  He could have been on a ventilator and they'd criticize him for not working.
> 
> Trump mocked for signing apparently blank paper in ‘staged’ photos at Walter Reed



I've give exactly zero shits about people acting surprised those photos were "staged". Basically any photo that comes from the White House is going to be staged in some way.

I will say though, at least give the man something more than a blank piece of paper to look busy.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I've give exactly zero shits about people acting surprised those photos were "staged". Basically any photo that comes from the White House is going to be staged in some way.
> 
> I will say though, at least give the man something more than a blank piece of paper to look busy.


Agreed, with the caveat that a blank sheet is the most OPSEC-proof paper means for demonstrating that - though perhaps not the most convincing.   

Shoots of him doing routine physical activity in his suite, moving about, etc. wouldn't be bad either, to show his purported good condition if that was his intent.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Not a bad chart: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313144904915197952


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

See, he's fine:


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> The only thing 'bloody' irresponsible about this event is putting several members of your own protective unit, their families, and anyone with whom they all come in contact in further jeopardy to perform a reckless political stunt that could have been achieved without imposing -any- of these additional risks to the public from the comfort of your own multi-room hospital-provided presidential suite.





Devildoc said:


> And you know this....how?  because you are a medical provider?  You are on the down-low of his medical team's advice?  This is an assumption made based on your politics and worldview.


I know this because the foremost national medical authority on COVID-19 - the CDC - has indicated that you should isolate yourself and avoid contact with others -including housemates - for at least 10 days following a positive diagnosis (which POTUS received 4 days prior to this event) and quarantine yourself if you've been in close contact with a person infected with COVID-19.  

He was not released following his stunt; he was returned directly back to isolation in his suite, where he still resides due to his infectious status.


Devildoc said:


> This is why I did not comment much on whether he should have/should not have.  We do not know what his docs said.  If masks work, especially N95s (which pics show the USSS personnel were wearing), then there should not have been a problem, right?


No, because they are not a replacement for isolation in infected patients, and they are not foolproof.

The CDC currently lists no exceptions for releasing patients from isolation when it is medically unnecessary.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

@Locksteady , we've had staff go from exposure to mild symptoms to quarantine to work in as few as five days.  Granted, we're going on our institution's protocols and not CDC (I admit, I did chuckle at the "foremost national medical authority" thing....for some COVID guidelines they are a solid six weeks behind many institutions).  If I had to quarantine after every time I have been exposed to someone with COVID now I would not have left my house since...June?  But, to be clear, you don't have inside access to his medical team's protocols (question guised as a statement).  Neither do I.  

N95s are not for me to protect you, they are for me so you don't get me sick.  Not foolproof, at all, but given a pathogen risk-safety matrix, almost as safe as you can get.  

I dunno, man... maybe, just maybe, he'll be OK, and so will those around him.  In spite of the 99% survival rate.

To be clear, I am neither defending nor attacking him for doing this.  I don't know that it's going to make much difference to anything (regarding getting anyone sick or from a political point of view).  But I do think it's great fodder, ammunition, for people who don't like him.  Clearly, look at the past several posts.

Regarding Dr. Phillips, he has some solid creds in the EM and disaster med community, but some of his peers thinks that his partisanship is over the top and clouds his professionalism (not kissing and telling, but one of his colleagues used to be one of my colleagues where I work and we keep in touch).


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2020)

So, Devil's Advocate...

What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...  

Doesn't this stand as a pretty solid  counter argument to what many are presenting? Doesn't it seemingly confirm that this is a mild virus for most, even some at high risk?  Doesn't it stand in contrast to the actions some states are taking?

To me, it potentially stands as strong argument against critics.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @Locksteady , we've had staff go from exposure to mild symptoms to quarantine to work in as few as five days.  Granted, we're going on our institution's protocols and not CDC (I admit, I did chuckle at the "foremost national medical authority" thing....for some COVID guidelines they are a solid six weeks behind many institutions).


The beauty of the national-level bureaucracy.


Devildoc said:


> If I had to quarantine after every time I have been exposed to someone with COVID now I would not have left my house since...June?


Voluntarily violating medical recommendations for an unnecessary political stunt is not at all comparable to doing the same in the course of providing necessary medical care to the public as an essential healthcare provider.


Devildoc said:


> But, to be clear, you don't have inside access to his medical team's protocols (question guised as a statement).  Neither do I.


Which I don't need to know that both you and the President are skirting official CDC guidelines for reducing the spread as much as possible - albeit with dramatically different justifications.


Devildoc said:


> I dunno, man... maybe, just maybe, he'll be OK, and so will those around him.  In spite of the 99% survival rate.


He ignored clear isolation guidelines and deliberately put other people's lives in danger just to advance his political self-interests.

This is unacceptable for anyone to do - much less the person who should be setting the example for the nation.


Devildoc said:


> To be clear, I am neither defending nor attacking him for doing this.  I don't know that it's going to make much difference to anything (regarding getting anyone sick or from a political point of view).  But I do think it's great fodder, ammunition, for people who don't like him.


As with most controversial things done by a political opposition.


Devildoc said:


> Regarding Dr. Phillips, he has some solid creds in the EM and disaster med community, but some of his peers thinks that his partisanship is over the top and clouds his professionalism (not kissing and telling, but one of his colleagues used to be one of my colleagues where I work and we keep in touch).


Fair enough.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, Devil's Advocate...
> 
> What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...
> 
> ...


One success story representing three higher risk factors for COVID-19 fatality does not a general proof make, particularly in the case of widespread health threats where societies have suffered for -not- treating them as deadlier than they may be.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> One success story...


C'mon Man!  Seriously, that's not even close to being intellectually honest about this.  😁

It's not conjecture, it's a fact: far more people recover from the virus than succumb to it.  Numerous members of Congress had the virus and recovered  There have been other world leaders as well, most notably, Boris Johnson. 

That doesn't mean it's not serious issue for some, but now I'm just repeating...


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Voluntarily violating medical recommendations for an unnecessary political stunt is not at all comparable to doing the same in the course of providing necessary medical care to the public as an essential healthcare provider.



How does one violate a recommendation?



Locksteady said:


> Which I don't need to know that both you and the President are skirting official CDC guidelines for reducing the spread as much as possible - albeit with dramatically different justifications.



Guideline - a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.

In other words, the OFFICIAL CDC GUIDELINES = an official piece of *advice*.

You can keep on spouting how POTUS keeps putting lives in danger, but how about some personal accountability of those that CHOOSE to be around him?

I'm sure the next thing to come out is how Mcenany put 'journalist' in danger during the WH press briefings. They CHOOSE to be in the room with her given her CHOICE to maintain contact with POTUS.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, Devil's Advocate...
> 
> What if the President does release in the next day or so and has no additional symptoms; fully recovered...
> 
> ...



Counter point: do you think the average American in the same demographic as the President has access to an around to clock medical team?

There is a sea of difference between the type of care that is being afforded to the President and the type of care afforded to someone else.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Counter point: do you think the average American in the same demographic as the President has access to an around to clock medical team?
> 
> There is a sea of difference between the type of care that is being afforded to the President and the type of care afforded to someone else.


Of course they don't, unless by demographic you're referring to wealthy elite, in which case I change my answer.  But just because he went to the hospital and had round the clock care doesn't necessarily mean he needed to either.  The President gets a lot of additional care and attention on a lot of things that may not be needed but are done so out of an abundance of caution.  I have no idea how serious or mild his case is and frankly, aside from those on his medical team, no one else does either.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Here's the data on young people.  With citations in a long ass thread.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313162488955973634


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 5, 2020)

We (Appalachian State Univ., in the mountains) had a 19 year-old die from COVID about a week ago.  According to media he had no underlying illness or predisposing history.  Doctors called it a "one in 10 million" event as he was "a super healthy athlete.  

I am not diminishing his death, and it is tragic; that said, young people don't get it much, and when they do, it's super mild, and rarely serious.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> How does one violate a recommendation?


This is a good semantical question that highlights a flaw in my wording.  You may replace it with 'ignore'.


GOTWA said:


> Guideline - a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.
> 
> In other words, the OFFICIAL CDC GUIDELINES = an official piece of *advice*.
> 
> You can keep on spouting how POTUS keeps putting lives in danger, but how about some personal accountability of those that CHOOSE to be around him?


The President is responsible for making choices that needlessly put his protective detail, their families, and anyone else they contact into danger.  His choice to deliberately put them at risk is not somehow justified or softened by their decision to keep their employment by showing up to work.


GOTWA said:


> I'm sure the next thing to come out is how Mcenany put 'journalist' in danger during the WH press briefings.


They would not be at risk of contracting it from her if she had followed CDC guidelines.  

She chose not to.


GOTWA said:


> They CHOOSE to be in the room with her given her CHOICE to maintain contact with POTUS.


Their choice to put themselves at risk doesn't absolve her of her (or the administration's) decision to make that event possible.  If the White House administration was taking any of it seriously, they would have taken responsibility for their own staff's potential for spreading infection by having the Press Secretary conduct her job remotely and respond to digitally submitted questions from the Press Corps.

They were too focused on maintaining their posture to bother taking responsibility for the health risk posed by their own staff.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> They would not be at risk of contracting it from her if she had followed CDC guidelines.


In order to not breath in this particle you would need to wear much more than a cloth face covering.  More likely a P100 or let's just go all the way to an M50 with the requisite filters of course.  And none of those folks are wearing those.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Great news for POTUS' recovery.

Covid-19 Live Updates: Trump’s Doctors Say He Can Return to the White House, Where Treatments Will Continue


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I have no idea how serious or mild his case is and frankly, aside from those on his medical team, no one else does either.



That's the rub. 

He isn't a good example of this "being overblown" because no one will no how bad his symptoms actually were. 

As for care; his doctor said he got good cocktail of drugs within the first day of being admitted, including a steroidal treatment.

I've had soldiers in my unit get it and be sent home with nothing, told to only come into the hospital if "symptoms worsen and you have difficulty breathing".

I don't say that to say "look, Trump was super sick!" but to highlight the fact that, regardless of how severe is symptoms were they treated them as if they were worst case scenario (as they should).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Folks, we once had a president incapacitated for two years and his wife ran things out of the Oval Office.  And now we hang on every letter of a tweet regarding the health of a POTUS when he has the leading medical care in the western world provided to him as a method of security.


----------



## Jaknight (Oct 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Folks, we once had a president incapacitated for two years and his wife ran things out of the Oval Office.  And now we hang on every letter of a tweet regarding the health of a POTUS when he has the leading medical care in the western world provided to him as a method of security.


Who was that?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 5, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> Who was that?


Woodrow Wilson had a stroke in 1919.  The Cabinet basically hid what had happened to him from the vast majority of the people and filtered comms that required the President's input.  And Edith Wislon ran the show.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> That's the rub.
> 
> He isn't a good example of this "being overblown" because no one will no how bad his symptoms actually were.
> 
> ...


But, at least for the moment, he's also not Boris Johnson in ICU, considering a ventilator either. 

By all reports and public observations, he's not had any serious symptoms up to this point.  He had a positive test and some mild symptoms, whatever that means. I don't know how anyone can make more or less of than that it is.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Here's the data on young people.  With citations in a long ass thread.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313162488955973634


To dovetail into this post in terms of understanding the numbers being thrown around, there's this article from Nature:
The coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male — new data reveal the risks


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> C'mon Man!  Seriously, that's not even close to being intellectually honest about this.  😁
> 
> It's not conjecture, it's a fact: far more people recover from the virus than succumb to it.  Numerous members of Congress had the virus and recovered  There have been other world leaders as well, most notably, Boris Johnson.
> 
> That doesn't mean it's not serious issue for some, but now I'm just repeating...


You had me at the Biden. 😁


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 5, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> This is a good semantical question that highlights a flaw in my wording.  You may replace it with 'ignore'.
> 
> The President is responsible for making choices that needlessly put his protective detail, their families, and anyone else they contact into danger.  His choice to deliberately put them at risk is not somehow justified or softened by their decision to keep their employment by showing up to work.
> 
> ...


All I read is that you don't believe in personal accountability. The guy is 74 years old and has a job to do. Have we even discussed the optics of this whole thing and how it looks to our adversaries? I'll take a Trump with COVID out galivanting around than a Trump protecting his security detail from COVID as adversaries move forward against the western world. 

Stop making excuses for people choosing to be around him. At the end of the day, they have a choice. Acknowledge it.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 5, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> All I read is that you don't believe in personal accountability.


Then you must be choosing to actively ignore the parts of my post that point to their decision to put themselves at risk.


GOTWA said:


> Stop making excuses for people choosing to be around him. At the end of the day, they have a choice. Acknowledge it.


Stop treating this as a zero-sum comparison and instead accept the fact that acknowledging an exposed person's responsibility to quarantine does not need to infer that unexposed people who are aware of the former's condition aren't also responsible for what they do with that knowledge.

And this time actually read the post instead of skimming past each time I do the opposite of what you're accusing me of doing.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 5, 2020)

I feel like this is going into the territory of dead horses and beatings. How about an agree to disagree?

I mean come on, look at that adorable face and cute feet!


----------



## Bypass (Oct 5, 2020)




----------



## Dvr55119 (Oct 5, 2020)

Bypass said:


> View attachment 36112



Is that how you felt after your COVID encounter?


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 5, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Is that how you felt after your COVID encounter?



You can read his posts and easily see that it wasn't. He also stated that he had other health issues that contributed to a slow, unpleasant recovery.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 5, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313256208363552769


----------



## Jaknight (Oct 5, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313256208363552769


I have no doubt he’s still feeling it but is putting on the brave face


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2020)

This is just an awesome "discussion", I love it so.

Who are the infectious disease specialists on this board? To my knowledge, and if I've forgotten or missed you I apologize, but @Devildoc is the closest thing we have to someone deeply involved in the treatment of CV-19 patients at a world class medical facility. That's the closest we have to an expert, so the rest of us (myself included) are getting second hand information, stuff from the Net (which has proven to be contradictory), etc.

But holy shit, don't we know what we're talking about?

Also, how many of you have been around USSS since this started? I have. How many of you have been around high level gov't members since this started? I have. What masks did they wear? They appeared to be like a neoprene substance, but that's it: "Appeared." What level of protection do they provide? I have no idea.

Before y'all get so wedded to your OPINIONS, you may want to take a step back, because it looks like you are either trolling or just plain..."all thrust, no vector."


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I feel like this is going into the territory of dead horses and beatings. How about an agree to disagree?
> 
> I mean come on, look at that adorable face and cute feet!
> 
> View attachment 36111



What is that, a hedgehog? Who gives a shit? Yawn.

A mother otter and her baby. This is the heat.


----------



## SaintKP (Oct 5, 2020)

AWP said:


> What is that, a hedgehog? Who gives a shit? Yawn.
> 
> A mother otter and her baby. This is the heat.



Otters are bitch made and if this was the 1800s I'd be wearing a coat and hat ensemble made of them.


----------



## AWP (Oct 5, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Otters are bitch made and if this was the 1800s I'd be wearing a coat and hat ensemble made of them.



Oh you motherfucker...


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 5, 2020)

I HATE BOTH OF YOU I AM TEAM SMILING BABY LAMB


----------



## Bypass (Oct 5, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> Is that how you felt after your COVID encounter?


I had a long drawn out ordeal but I didn't have rendesivere and I also didn't get admitted to a hospital. I am overweight and according to my doctor pre diabetic and I have high blood pressure but I and hopefully like Donald Trump kicked Covids ass. My Father a 74 YO diabetic and high blood pressure as well was out mowing the yard a week into getting it. My Mom at 65 she kicked Covids ass as well. So yeah I kinda agree with Trump in that you shouldn't fear Covid as you shouldn't fear the Reaper. Whatevers gonna happen is gonna happen.

I saw these guys live in concert in Georgia back in the day. It was an awesome concert.


----------



## Bypass (Oct 5, 2020)

Jaknight said:


> I have no doubt he’s still feeling it but is putting on the brave face


Trump is putting on a brave face for the world. I'm proud of him.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 8, 2020)

Pretty solid article in today’s WSJ.  Since not all of you have a subscription, I‘ve put the text in the spoiler.

Covid-19 Vaccine-Trial Volunteers Look to Make a Difference




Spoiler: Printed text



Vaccine-Trial Volunteers Look to Make a Difference
The stakes are high as Covid-19 trial participants aim to help people return to their normal lives—and persuade skeptics of vaccines.
By Rolfe Winkler and Jared S. Hopkins
Victoria Smith had lost three patients to Covid-19, while another patient had lost her husband and brother to the virus. So when the New Orleans-area family physician learned in July that her health system would participate in a vaccine trial, she was in the lab to get her first dose the next day.
The trial that Dr. Smith entered, for Pfizer Inc.’s experimental Covid-19 vaccine, seems a lot like any other medical study. There is paperwork, blood work and a pair of shots three weeks apart. She keeps a diary of how she is feeling to share with researchers. She has been paid about $400 so far. And yet the stakes make the Covid-19 vaccine trials unique.

 “Being part of a trial to develop a vaccine is what’s going to help us get back to any sense of normalcy,” said Dr. Smith, who is 52 years old. “Because a vaccine is how you really end this pandemic.”
Tens of thousands of Americans are already participating in Phase 3 Covid vaccine trials, while thousands more will be recruited for additional trials beginning soon. They are the tip of the spear in the global fight against the virus, and many of them say they are eager to help people return to their normal lives and disabuse vaccine skeptics.
“The sheer number of Covid-19 vaccine trials in such a concentrated amount of time is unlike anything that I have seen before,” said Mark Blumling, chief executive of Headlands Research. “This is also reflected in the unparalleled enthusiasm” among potential trial enrollees, he added.Headlands is conducting Covid-19 vaccine trials for Pfizer and Moderna Inc. and is planning trials for vaccine candidates from AstraZeneca PLC and Novavax Inc. MMNVAXMMThe vaccines are being developed quickly thanks in part to the rapid mapping of the coronavirus genome and new vaccine-making technologies.In interviews, vaccine-trial participants described a typical trial-enrollment process: a screening phone call, and if they are approved, a three-to-four-hour appointment at a trial research site where patients give detailed medical histories. They give blood, get tests—including a pregnancy test for women—and then receive their first shots. They are observed for 30 minutes to make sure they don’t have a bad reaction. Many trial participants, including those in the Pfizer and Moderna studies, use a smartphone app to keep a diary of any symptoms.
As with many clinical trials in the U.S., participants in the Covid vaccine trials are paid a modest amount, depending on the number of doctor appointments, follow-up calls and other requirements of the studies.
Americans are the primary trial recruits in part because the U.S. has had a hard time controlling infections, said Mr. Blumling. It is easier to gather data on a vaccine’s efficacy if trial participants are regularly exposed to the virus, and researchers including Headlands are recruiting subjects who venture out of their homes to work as well as those who live in Covid hot spots. Volunteers tend to be healthy and white, so Headlands is also looking for people with pre-existing conditions as well as those from diverse racial and age groups who have been hit harder by the virus proportionally.
One such group was Louisiana’s Black population, as Dr. Smith knows all too well.
“Covid is disproportionately impacting African-Americans,” said Dr. Smith, who is Black. “I wanted to be a model to the African-American and Latino community that this is safe and something for you to think about.”

 Many of Dr. Smith’s minority patients are skeptical of clinical research, especially those familiar with the infamous Tuskegee experiments, in which Black men with syphilis were studied and tracked for 40 years without their knowledge and not given adequate treatment.
“My participation and dialogue [with patients] is to explain the difference between this kind of trial and what happened with Tuskegee,” she said.
Brad Hoylman, a 54-year-old Pfizer-trial participant, has dealt with intense vaccine skepticism. A state senator from New York, Mr. Hoylman sponsored legislation that removed a religious exemption for vaccinating schoolchildren, following New York’s 2019 measles outbreak.
Vaccine opponents had hounded his staff and his family before Covid, and when he posted photos of himself receiving Covid vaccine shots in August, the internet trolls were waiting. “May your family suffer for eternity,” tweeted one person over a manipulated photo of Mr. Hoylman with a knife held to his neck.
Covid vaccine trials are standard, double-blind studies. For most trials, half of participants receive the vaccine candidate and the rest get a placebo. Participants don’t know which they receive because researchers want both halves of the study to continue their normal routines and expose themselves to Covid. If more people with the placebo are infected, that demonstrates the vaccine provides protection.
It takes time for data to prove that the vaccine provides at least some immunity and then more time to determine duration of immunity, which is why study participants will be monitored for two years.
President Trump has said a vaccine could be ready as early as this month. “The vaccines are coming momentarily,” he said this week. Such predictions contradict experts in his administration, including the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who said in September that even if a vaccine is available, it will take six to nine months to get all Americans vaccinated.
Nine pharmaceutical companies working on vaccines signed a pledge in September to “uphold the integrity of the scientific process” as they work toward regulatory approval for Covid-19 vaccines. Pfizer executives have said they expect to see trial results and file for an emergency authorization this month.To receive emergency authorization, the Food and Drug Administration said Tuesday, a vaccine must be 50% effective, roughly the same as the annual flu shot, meaning that trial recipients who received the experimental

 vaccine develop no more than half as many Covid cases as those that received a placebo.
Mr. Hoylman said he doesn’t want a vaccine rushed. While he can’t be sure he received the vaccine instead of a placebo, he said he experienced side effects, including a fever, severe body aches, chills and a migraine headache the day after his second shot. Such symptoms are normal for vaccines, and Mr. Hoylman recovered quickly.
When asked about its vaccine, Pfizer referred to its September R&D day presentation, in which it said that in an early-stage study the vaccine was well-tolerated “with only mild- to-moderate events and low incidence of fever and chills in older adults.”
“There’s vaccine hesitancy in this country,” said Dr. Judith Aberg, who is running the trial for Pfizer at New York’s Mount Sinai Hospital. “If we roll out a vaccine and it doesn’t work, and people get Covid, that’s not helping anyone. We need to assure people that it’s going to be safe and it’s going to work.”
A key difference with Covid vaccines is that some leading candidates use unproven technology. Vaccines are simulated infections that induce an immune response. Most vaccines use an inactive or weakened virus. The Pfizer and Moderna “mRNA” vaccines are designed to deliver genetic material to human cells to make proteins that, in turn, trigger the immune system to defend against the coronavirus. The vaccines from AstraZeneca and from Johnson & Johnson use a common-cold virus to deliver genetic instructions teaching the human immune system to mount a defense.AstraZeneca halted new-patient enrollment for its trial in early September after a woman in the U.K. experienced an unexplained illness, which a U.S. official described as a spinal-cord problem. An AstraZeneca spokesman said the company’s trial has resumed in the U.K., Brazil and South Africa, but not yet in the U.S. He declined to discuss details of the illness in the patient that precipitated the pause.
William Relton, a 63-year-old opera director from London, got his first dose of AstraZeneca’s experimental vaccine or a placebo in late August, just days before the trial was suspended. He said he hasn’t experienced side effects, but he said the trial’s halt didn’t give him a moment’s pause about getting his second dose later in September.
“I think it’s the right thing to continue the trial,” he said. “I already had one shot, so a second wouldn’t do a lot of damage.”Like other trial participants, Mr. Relton will dedicate significant time to the trial. He has committed to giving himself throat and nasal swabs weekly for a year to determine whether he has caught Covid. A vaccine, he said, is the only way everyone will be able to return to normal lives. “I want to do whatever I can to help,” he said.

 MoreModerna Vows to Not Enforce Covid-19 Vaccine Patents During Pandemic New U.S. Coronavirus Cases Top 50,000 for the First Time in Five Days
Write to Rolfe Winkler at rolfe.winkler@wsj.com and Jared S. Hopkins at jared.hopkins@wsj.com

[/ISPOILER]


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 9, 2020)

Anyone else sense increased rumblings to move in this direction?
Coronavirus: Health experts join global anti-lockdown movement


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Anyone else sense increased rumblings to move in this direction?
> Coronavirus: Health experts join global anti-lockdown movement



Meanwhile gov newsom is suggesting to mask between bites...


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 9, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Meanwhile gov newsom is suggesting to mask between bites...


He's a clown.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 9, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Anyone else sense increased rumblings to move in this direction?
> Coronavirus: Health experts join global anti-lockdown movement



That thing is taken off like wildfire, it's making huge traction. But let's see if it actually garners the attention of the media or the US government.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 10, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That thing is taken off like wildfire, it's making huge traction. But let's see if it actually garners the attention of the media or the US government.


Nov 5, it's on page 2


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 10, 2020)

First time flying since the Pandemic thing and the rules on masks here are already dumb. Somehow a vented carbon filter mask isn't good enough, but these surgical masks are?

That's all you need to know about how it's bullshit. 

Also, if you were unimpressed with TSA before, oh boy.


----------



## AWP (Oct 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> First time flying since the Pandemic thing and the rules on masks here are already dumb. Somehow a vented carbon filter mask isn't good enough, but these surgical masks are?
> 
> That's all you need to know about how it's bullshit.
> 
> Also, if you were unimpressed with TSA before, oh boy.



100% agree.

Inshallah, I'll find out the 3rd week of December and see my family for the first time in 15 months. Others have it worse, I'm not whining, but this was old months ago. I'll take a 16 hour mask ride to see my mom again.


----------



## Dame (Oct 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> First time flying since the Pandemic thing and the rules on masks here are already dumb. Somehow a vented carbon filter mask isn't good enough, but these surgical masks are?
> 
> That's all you need to know about how it's bullshit.
> 
> Also, if you were unimpressed with TSA before, oh boy.


Cuz the mask ain't for you. It's for the other folks.
The vent lets YOUR air out.
Same rules on DoD facilities.

Yeah.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 11, 2020)

The plandemic will be over soon as the election is done, whole point is to make Trump look bad, stifle the economy, allow the increase in propaganda from Marxist idiots (BLM, Anitfa, DEMs), mask shadow hands passing laws and orders, cover up the Clinton Foundation, Epstein, McCain and ISIS, how pedophilia acceptance is rising. The overwhelming fascist attack on free speech, media and domestic terrorist organizations running rampant bs, arson wildfires, riots ( I mean peaceful protests... lol). It’s all for show and is doing exactly what it was planned to do. Notice how there’s no more mass shootings? The flavor of the month is now covid, Dems, deepstate, liberals, assholes, whatever you wanna call them, they already got what they wanted out of that, more gun control and chess pieces got moved around all over the country both in government and private business. People get so focused on the hand, they forget to look what’s behind it. Rome used the colosseum and free bread, since times are more advanced, more advanced steps have to be taken. 
Plus when you have the highest minds and leaders of the world, banks, countries etc literally saying on t.v. “We need to use covid as the catalyst for the new world order”, kinda says exactly wtf is going on.
Sadly if Trump gets elected again I fear what these psychos plan on doing next. Right now their in panic mode but still have a chance. Once he’s elected, it’s like cornering a rabid dog, shits gonna get crazy.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 11, 2020)

Oh I think it already has mate.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 11, 2020)

Seriously.. wtf

WHO warns against COVID-19 lockdowns due to economic damage


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 11, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Seriously.. wtf
> 
> WHO warns against COVID-19 lockdowns due to economic damage


Lol at the WHO... just when I think she's gonna zig, she zags.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 11, 2020)

geeez, that is what we have been saying from the beginning...identify people with underlying conditions, protect the old, the rest get out there and work...use social distancing...etc...and yes, you will have idiots that do stupid things...but you gotta keep moving forward.

If you allow the economy to collapses...you lose the life saving services that are available (Police/Fire/ER's/Social programs)...not talking at the federal level...it starts at the local level...those services collapse and the dominoes fall....you can't recover.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 11, 2020)

Hang on, you guys were pissed off at the WHO earlier and said they couldn't be trusted and don't know what they're doing so doesn't that mean lockdowns are actually something you support?


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 11, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Hang on, you guys were pissed off at the WHO earlier and said they couldn't be trusted and don't know what they're doing so doesn't that mean lockdowns are actually something you support?



No.. You missed the conclusion completely. It's more evidence that they have no idea what they are doing and can't be trusted.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 11, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Hang on, you guys were pissed off at the WHO earlier and said they couldn't be trusted and don't know what they're doing so doesn't that mean lockdowns are actually something you support?





Florida173 said:


> No.. You missed the conclusion completely. It's more evidence that they have no idea what they are doing and can't be trusted.


What FL173 said, and further proof pulling out/defunding them was a good decision by Trump.
Watch the "follow the science crowd" go apeshit now, Dr Fauchi now goes "against the science" or flips and follows WHO "guidance / recommendation".


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 11, 2020)

No you missed my point I think. Being that this is some hell of a cherry pick.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 11, 2020)

The WHO can’t be trusted, BUT they did just state there is no scientific evidence to support its an airborne virus so, I’m ok with not wearing a mask anymore since this whole thing is political bs anyway.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 11, 2020)

This isn't news, nor is it a deviation from anything WHO has specifically *warned about in the past*.

The article is reiterating the dangers of overreliance on lockdowns as the primary means to solve the problem and subsequently lifting them too soon or without applying other important measures designed to prevent it from resurging - *both of which WHO explicitly warned people about several months ahead of the current situation.*


> Tedros said the countries need to implement measures such as expanding and training the health workforce, as well as ramping up the speed and production of testing before considering ending lockdowns.
> 
> “These measures are the best way to suppress and stop transmission so that when restrictions are lifted, the coronavirus doesn’t resurge,” he said. “The last thing any country needs is to open schools and businesses, only to be forced to close them again because of a resurgence.”


WHO has never advocated for partial or full lockdowns as a primary or long-term strategy, and certainly not as a repeat practice, to curb the virus, but rather as a short-term, temporary means to give communities enough time to design, develop, and deploy *an effective plan of action* before safely opening communities in accordance with those measures.

Due to the failures of communities to follow WHO's recommendations, economies now face a much greater risk if lockdown policies are reinstated or extended even further, and Nabarro is making sure communities are aware that the economic consequences of reinstating a lockdown at this point are far worse than before.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 11, 2020)

The WHO has backpedalled, obfuscated, lied about so much of this rather than just saying what was true: We have no idea, live your lives.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The WHO has backpedalled, obfuscated, lied about so much of this rather than just saying what was true: We have no idea, live your lives.


If that is the case, this article demonstrates none of that.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The WHO has backpedalled, obfuscated, lied about so much of this rather than just saying what was true: We have no idea, live your lives.


That’s because, and the amount could be debated, but the WHO tried to help China cover covid up. It’s also part of the plan.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 11, 2020)

What plan?


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 11, 2020)

Juggrnaut said:


> That’s because, and the amount could be debated, but the WHO tried to help China cover covid up. It’s also part of the plan.


I'm very interested in this plan as well. You first post in this thread was very "COVID is a way for the New World Order to happen" (with references to the Clintons, Epstein, and McCain and ISIS).

Is that what you're talking about?

Also, please link us something to show where you're getting this info. As much as I might disagree with some members of this board on the reg, I can at least respect their position when they actually provide something to see what they're talking about.


----------



## Kraut783 (Oct 11, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> No you missed my point I think. Being that this is some hell of a cherry pick.



How is it a cherry pick? this thread has been critical of the WHO from their close relationship to China and their guidance from the beginning.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 11, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I'm very interested in this plan as well. You first post in this thread was very "COVID is a way for the New World Order to happen" (with references to the Clintons, Epstein, and McCain and ISIS).
> 
> Is that what you're talking about?
> 
> Also, please link us something to show where you're getting this info. As much as I might disagree with some members of this board on the reg, I can at least respect their position when they actually provide something to see what they're talking about.


I understand the comment about wanting evidence, but really google searching and watching the events over the last few months as the WHO, CDC, government and other parties have been called out, admitted and stated a lot of what I’ve already said/eluded to.

As far as the WHO cover up,

China, WHO could have helped prevent COVID-19 pandemic: congressional report

Pick any media and it will state something similar. The radical details are irrelevant from some of the other outlets, but the general consensus is the WHO helped China cover it up and delay action. There’s a few reports even from German intelligence and others about it. Not to mention that Virologist who defected mentions it as well.

as far as “the plan”, that would take forever to type out. The general idea is it’s an attack on the US from the communists. Everything is deliberate, and moves us a step closer to “equilibrium” for lack of a better reference.

I will search for the video, as YouTube and other media ban/delete anything speaking out against what I’m talking about. But there were very high prominent leaders, scientists, bankers, etc etc on tv in interviews or seminars or addresses to the nation literally stating, and I quote “ we need to use covid as the catalyst for the new world order” among many many more references to new world order esk, Marxist ideology, utopia.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 11, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> How is it a cherry pick? this thread has been critical of the WHO from their close relationship to China and their guidance from the beginning.



It's a cherry pick because all through this thread has been a recurring topic of "oh my how the WHO sucks" (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but now that something confirms a bias it's suddenly an organisation to be trusted.


----------



## racing_kitty (Oct 11, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's a cherry pick because all through this thread has been a recurring topic of "oh my how the WHO sucks" (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but now that something confirms a bias it's suddenly an organisation to be trusted.


I haven’t seen anything that says “Trust the WHO,” so much as a combination of “Took ya long enough to come around,” and “Blind squirrel, meet nut. We hope you still starve.”


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 11, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's a cherry pick because all through this thread has been a recurring topic of "oh my how the WHO sucks" (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but now that something confirms a bias it's suddenly an organisation to be trusted.



Sorry man but no one is suddenly trusting the organization here. 

Please anyone responding to this thread tell me if I'm wrong and that you now trust the WHO as @SpitfireV suggests


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 12, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> If that is the case, this article demonstrates none of that.



Sure that Article doesn't but we have hundreds of posts in this thread. I've previously posted links showing the WHO changed their stance.  Here's another one. 

WHO backflips on virus stance by condemning lockdowns

________________



Cookie_ said:


> I'm very interested in this plan as well. You first post in this thread was very "COVID is a way for the New World Order to happen" (with references to the Clintons, Epstein, and McCain and ISIS).
> 
> Is that what you're talking about?
> 
> Also, please link us something to show where you're getting this info. As much as I might disagree with some members of this board on the reg, I can at least respect their position when they actually provide something to see what they're talking about.



I don't know about a new world order.  But during this period the Beijing government has fully eroded the one country two-systems deal that was executed when Hong Kong returned to Chinese rule.  And the West has barely said a thing.  We've said stuff, removed Hong Kong's special status.  But the realness?  The Chinese putting millions of their own people in labor camps because they hold a certain faith during this period of time where the West has been responding stupidly to a virus that is a very limited threat.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 12, 2020)

They also have over a million Muslim (I believe they’re called Weegars? Or something close to that) slaves in China. Lot of sketchy stuff going around and this plandemic, like the gladiatorial games of Rome, is a nice distraction. I believe there was a 1 billion dollar deal with Hunter and Joe Biden with China, plus the Ukraine scandal. The list is laundry with things trying to be suppressed right now.




ThunderHorse said:


> I don't know about a new world order.  But during this period the Beijing government has fully eroded the one country two-systems deal that was executed when Hong Kong returned to Chinese rule.  And the West has barely said a thing.  We've said stuff, removed Hong Kong's special status.  But the realness?  The Chinese putting millions of their own people in labor camps because they hold a certain faith during this period of time where the West has been responding stupidly to a virus that is a very limited threat.


Thanks for that info, I hadn’t heard about that.


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 12, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Sorry man but no one is suddenly trusting the organization here.
> 
> Please anyone responding to this thread tell me if I'm wrong and that you now trust the WHO as @SpitfireV suggests


I agree. I don't see anyone here saying they trust the WHO, but confirming what we all thought from the beginning...it's all bullshit.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Sure that Article doesn't but we have hundreds of posts in this thread.


It would probably make sense *not* to use that article to deliver that point, then.


ThunderHorse said:


> I've previously posted links showing the WHO changed their stance.  Here's another one.
> 
> WHO backflips on virus stance by condemning lockdowns


I've asked you some version of this question before, and now I'll ask again:  Do you even check what you post as evidence before throwing it up?

You literally posted news.com.au's edition of *the same lead story you just admitted doesn't demonstrate the WHO's alleged backpedaling.*


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 12, 2020)

No, my comment was a general one. And the WHO has not been consistent with messaging at all. You seem to think they haven't changed their stance massively. That's fine and all but not the case. As has been stated by many here. The WHO is full of shit.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 12, 2020)

... So, no?

Good to go.

Also, Happy Columbus Day.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 12, 2020)

This was published and only a certain side seems to be talking about it. Masks (cloth masks) under this small study basically don't work. 

It's on page 4 of this Morbity and Mortality weekly report. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69...BgylZyeQfzt8dcz1OEqHTl0NOPTDwcYNmtIz2hztcLREs

Was published now a month ago.  Probably some good reading for @Devildoc to come back and compare to what he's seeing on the ground.


ETA: Harvard folks at Mass General saying that once you've been infected you have lasting immunity. Article published on the 8th [OCT], also got no time in the "media."

COVID survivors may have four months of protection

Study link- Persistence and decay of human antibody responses to the receptor binding domain of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein in COVID-19 patients | Science Immunology


----------



## AWP (Oct 12, 2020)

I'll say it again for those of you in the back: the numbers are bullshit. Always have been, always will be, y'all enjoy arguing with each other.

At this point it looks like a Special Olympics chess match...


----------



## CQB (Oct 12, 2020)

Juggrnaut said:


> I understand the comment about wanting evidence, but really google searching and watching the events over the last few months as the WHO, CDC, government and other parties have been called out, admitted and stated a lot of what I’ve already said/eluded to.
> 
> As far as the WHO cover up,
> 
> ...


It sounds like refried QAnon.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 13, 2020)

CQB said:


> It sounds like refried QAnon.


I don’t follow Q, and I understand the skepticism. However, when BLM’s website states their Marxist and they have the support they do, major gov officials like Pelosi are attacking the constitution in favor of Marxist ideology, the media and Hollywood pedaling Marxism, Antifa, leftists and rioters promoting Marxism, sketchy backwoods deals from the Dems with... communists, Major world leaders literally referencing Marxism and utopian new world order, it’s not even conspiracy theory, it’s being said in public in front of masses, and they aren’t Alex Jones types. The list goes on and on.

It’s also funny that anytime someone posts a video of it on social media, it’s deleted and/or they’re banned.

On a side note, even though I don’t follow Q, I find it odd that they’re going through so much trouble to silence him/her for “conspiracy” related issues when people like Alex Jones and others state the same shit and have done it for longer... Congress is literally trying to pass legislation on it. That’s not normal, plus it’s an attack on free speech so, not only is it bullshit, it’s high brow questionable at the least.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 13, 2020)

Mate I think you need a few days away from the internet.


----------



## AWP (Oct 13, 2020)

Juggrnaut said:


> I don’t follow Q, and I understand the skepticism. However, when BLM’s website states their Marxist and they have the support they do, major gov officials like Pelosi are attacking the constitution in favor of Marxist ideology, the media and Hollywood pedaling Marxism, Antifa, leftists and rioters promoting Marxism, sketchy backwoods deals from the Dems with... communists, Major world leaders literally referencing Marxism and utopian new world order, it’s not even conspiracy theory, it’s being said in public in front of masses, and they aren’t Alex Jones types. The list goes on and on.
> 
> It’s also funny that anytime someone posts a video of it on social media, it’s deleted and/or they’re banned.
> 
> On a side note, even though I don’t follow Q, I find it odd that they’re going through so much trouble to silence him/her for “conspiracy” related issues when people like Alex Jones and others state the same shit and have done it for longer... Congress is literally trying to pass legislation on it. That’s not normal, plus it’s an attack on free speech so, not only is it bullshit, it’s high brow questionable at the least.



I'm curious why you have two accounts.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> I'm curious why you have two accounts.


Few reasons. I wanted to put the account to a different email, As I wanted to become more involved in the community, receiving emails to my primary account, with the already obnoxious amount of emails I get from amazon and every other site, I didn’t want to miss conversations I was involved in.

I felt my username was a poor choice, I had logged in to post a clip for someone and felt it reflected badly and I hadn’t seen till after I made my new account the thread about the ability to change it once every 6 months. I plan on deleting the account as it’s not needed and I apologize if this caused an issue.

I have been doing extensive research for years, picking my friends brains on SF. I had begun to train and put my effort into prepping for the journey but (insert long story of my crazy ex getting pregnant on purpose and my 2 year court battle) my son was born. The age limit was 32 and people had stated getting a waiver was meh. So I began looking into other options, and I found CCT in the ANG, who’s age limit was 39. Recently, however, the age limit of SF was raised to 35, so it became an option again. Since I had only made like 2 posts, and I was already planning on reworking my account, I used the same details so that way I was still me and could again pursue my goal of SF.

I apologize if I should have stated i had the other account or something, again I was going to delete it.


----------



## AWP (Oct 13, 2020)

Juggrnaut said:


> Few reasons. I wanted to put the account to a different email, As I wanted to become more involved in the community, receiving emails to my primary account, with the already obnoxious amount of emails I get from amazon and every other site, I didn’t want to miss conversations I was involved in.
> 
> I felt my username was a poor choice, I had logged in to post a clip for someone and felt it reflected badly and I hadn’t seen till after I made my new account the thread about the ability to change it once every 6 months. I plan on deleting the account as it’s not needed and I apologize if this caused an issue.
> 
> ...



I'm good with this, but here's why I had the initial skepticism:

We've had incidents where a member would create multiple accounts and then either quote themselves with the other account or use multiple accounts to get around bans or bad behavior. It reflects poorly on the individual and since there is the option to request a name change, your decision is a bit perplexing and a bad look.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 13, 2020)

And to ALLLLLLLLLL the cats worldwide that think they’re really sussing out numbers, ‘finding the hidden truth’, yet somehow telling others they’re not woke.....


yipes.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 13, 2020)

AWP said:


> I'm good with this, but here's why I had the initial skepticism:
> 
> We've had incidents where a member would create multiple accounts and then either quote themselves with the other account or use multiple accounts to get around bans or bad behavior. It reflects poorly on the individual and since there is the option to request a name change, your decision is a bit perplexing and a bad look.


I understand. All I can say is I had no malicious intent or any attempt to deceive anyone. The other account isn’t banned or have anything negative against it, I think it literally has 3-4 posts and I don’t have a problem naming it if you don’t already know. I don’t expect you to trust me. It’s my fault for not searching through the forum beforehand for a solution. In the end it’s your judgement and actions have consequences regardless of the intentions. I do apologize again.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 13, 2020)

Juggrnaut said:


> I understand. All I can say is I had no malicious intent or any attempt to deceive anyone. The other account isn’t banned or have anything negative against it, I think it literally has 3-4 posts and I don’t have a problem naming it if you don’t already know. I don’t expect you to trust me. It’s my fault for not searching through the forum beforehand for a solution. In the end it’s your judgement and actions have consequences regardless of the intentions. I do apologize again.


Fair enough. press.


----------



## Dame (Oct 13, 2020)

And back to Covid...
Woman Dies After Catching COVID-19 for a Second Time​So even with all the restrictions people get re-infected. And the second go-around is worse. 
Can I take the mask off now?


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 13, 2020)

COVID-19: Herd Immunity and Reinfection


This idea has been passed around a lot, the fact we’re isolating ourselves is making it more likely the virus will continue to spread over and over again. Rather, we should be allowing it to take over as many as possible, while putting protections in place for the very very few it would hurt (pre existing conditions folks).


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 13, 2020)

She was 89 years old and on chemo. I mean, should I be shocked?


----------



## Dame (Oct 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> She was 89 years old and on chemo. I mean, should I be shocked?


Shocked? No. But re-infection implies that even now these mandatory masks and waiting for a rushed vaccine is just more BS.


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 13, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> She was 89 years old and on chemo. I mean, should I be shocked?



Isn’t this kinda the theme? They use people with pre existing conditions as the example every time, like no ones gonna notice she’s 89 on chemo...


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

Dame said:


> Shocked? No. But re-infection implies that even now these mandatory masks and waiting for a rushed vaccine is just more BS.


What are you assuming about the purpose of trying to get everyone to slow the spread of the virus until they create an initial vaccine that people can retake every three months (or less) until they figure out a more lasting solution that makes it BS vs, say, just what you've decided is past your personal limit for tolerating enforced public healthy safety measures?


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 14, 2020)

If the .gov put just as much headspace--no, half as much--into combatting opioid and alcohol abuse, we'd legit save so many more lives.  But no, "wear masks and devastate the economy" makes so much more sense to maybe mitigate the risk for that 0.5% of high risk population.

You know the seasons are changing when a lot of people in the medical and public health community are coming out and saying "you know, maybe all of this wasn't such a great idea...."


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If the .gov put just as much headspace--no, half as much--into combatting opioid and alcohol abuse, we'd legit save so many more lives.  But no, "wear masks and devastate the economy" makes so much more sense to maybe mitigate the risk for that 0.5% of high risk population.
> 
> You know the seasons are changing when a lot of people in the medical and public health community are coming out and saying "you know, maybe all of this wasn't such a great idea...."


Too much money in the opioid and alcohol market. We combat it, but only to control the flow of it.

Can label it “tin foil hat” speak, but with everything that’s happened, how the evidence is growing it was manufactured and released on purpose and that once again it’s around election time all these crazy events just happen to pop up; just another thing to destabilize our country and try and boot Trump.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> If the .gov put just as much headspace--no, half as much--into combatting opioid and alcohol abuse, we'd legit save so many more lives.  But no, "wear masks and devastate the economy" makes so much more sense to maybe mitigate the risk for that 0.5% of high risk population.


That would require the kind of healthcare and funding that this administration prefers to continue allocating to other initiatives like defense spending.  Additionally, consumption-based reversible health issues like these are far less of an uncontrollable factor than, say, a communicable lethal disease that is spread through people -not- exercising social distancing and contact avoidance.


Devildoc said:


> You know the seasons are changing when a lot of people in the medical and public health community are coming out and saying "you know, maybe all of this wasn't such a great idea...."


That isn't a fair characterization of, at least, what WHO officials have been stating this entire time.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 14, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That would require the kind of healthcare and funding that this administration prefers to continue allocating to other initiatives like defense spending.  Additionally, consumption-based reversible health issues like these are far less of an uncontrollable factor than, say, a communicable lethal disease that is spread through people -not- exercising social distancing and contact avoidance.
> 
> That isn't a fair characterization of, at least, what WHO officials have been stating this entire time.



I trust the WHO about as much as I trust gas station sushi, and my lack of trust goes back through 30 years of dealing with some of their policies (in a civilian setting and a military setting)..... I like the Great Barrington Declaration, as does many physicians and public health experts I know.  I do not know what you do or what your creds are, and I'd like to know, because I would like to know if I can have an eye-to-eye convo, or have to break down things Barney-style given my 30+ years of healthcare experience.

You _really _want to blame _this _administration?  We've known for decades how to clamp "consumption-based reversible health issues", but _NO_ administration has seriously wanted to take it on.  If we could do that, the number of lives we would save and/or prolong would much more significant than those with COVID.  I do realize people are rightly concerned about an illness with a devastating >99% survival rate /sarc, but maybe if we target the people who are at-risk balanced with lifting restrictions for those at less risk we can strike a balance.


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 14, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That would require the kind of healthcare and funding that this administration prefers to continue allocating to other initiatives like defense spending.  Additionally, consumption-based reversible health issues like these are far less of an uncontrollable factor than, say, a communicable lethal disease that is spread through people -not- exercising social distancing and contact avoidance.
> 
> That isn't a fair characterization of, at least, what WHO officials have been stating this entire time.


Then ban tobacco products as they kill 500k people a year due to cancer. You know, twice the amount of people covid will kill this year.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I trust the WHO about as much as I trust gas station sushi, and my lack of trust goes back through 30 years of dealing with some of their policies (in a civilian setting and a military setting)..... I like the Great Barrington Declaration, as does many physicians and public health experts I know.


I agree in principle but I certainly don't think a national health care response to a pandemic should be based on it, as it is very challenging to fully identify all the members of vulnerable populations in a society.  What reinfection cases would also indicate is the 'herd immunity' strategy promoted by the Declaration may no longer be a plausible approach to addressing the virus.

Less related is the fact that the Declaration incorrectly asserts that governments prefer to do extended full lockdowns as a primary measure to curb the virus until a vaccine is created.

It also doesn't help the Declaration at all that people like "Dr. Johnny Bananas" are among the legitimate medical signatories on the Declaration.


Devildoc said:


> I do not know what you do or what your creds are, and I'd like to know, because I would like to know if I can have an eye-to-eye convo, or have to break down things Barney-style given my 30+ years of healthcare experience.


You are welcome to break things Barney-style as much as you feel. For the most part all of the information I present comes from second-hand, citable open-sourced statements from medical officials working on COVID-19 (or generalists).


Devildoc said:


> You _really _want to blame _this _administration?  We've known for decades how to clamp "consumption-based reversible health issues", but _NO_ administration has seriously wanted to take it on.  If we could do that, the number of lives we would save and/or prolong would much more significant than those with COVID.  I do realize people are rightly concerned about an illness with a devastating >99% survival rate /sarc, but maybe if we target the people who are at-risk balanced with lifting restrictions for those at less risk we can strike a balance.


My statement doesn't absolve any responsibility from prior administrations.  It highlights the priorities of this administration, which is the only one positioned to address the problems you chose to bring up.


GOTWA said:


> Then ban tobacco products as they kill 500k people a year due to cancer. You know, twice the amount of people covid will kill this year.


If you feel that strongly, challenge the administration to do so.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 14, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I agree in principle but I certainly don't think a national health care response to a pandemic should be based on it, as it is very challenging to fully identify all the members of vulnerable populations in a society.  What reinfection cases would also indicate is the 'herd immunity' strategy promoted by the Declaration may no longer be a plausible approach to addressing the virus.



It's not super hard to identify at-risk populations now; we do it for RSV, flu, immunocompromised.  It's not trying to invent something new.



Locksteady said:


> Less related is the fact that the Declaration incorrectly asserts that governments prefer to do extended full lockdowns as a primary measure to curb the virus until a vaccine is created.



Lockdowns are what the governments want to do (with masks and SD); or at least, what they are doing/did.  At least it's what is going on in NC from our governor, whose multi-phased plans are economically crippling and non-sensical.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We've known for decades how to clamp "consumption-based reversible health issues", but _NO_ administration has seriously wanted to take it on.



For myself and anyone else not knowledgable about this:

Are these methods other than straight abolition you're referencing? If so, what methods?


----------



## Juggrnaut (Oct 14, 2020)

While I agree we should try and save as many lives as possible as far as health goes, and continue trying to prolong life as much as possible; the world is already beyond 7 billion people and can’t continue to sustain itself. How do you combat a humanitarian effort that is essentially destroying the earth at the same time? The most populated places are the biggest shit holes, and it’s spilling over into well established places, as is the case in countries like Sweden and our own country.


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 14, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> For myself and anyone else not knowledgable about this:
> 
> Are these methods other than straight abolition you're referencing? If so, what methods?



Regarding opioids, historically they are easy to prescribe, easy to dispense.  That has S-L-O-W-L-Y been changing; a lot of docs in NC can't prescribe narcotics any longer, and if they do, it's limited to a one- or two-time script.  Understanding the pathophysiology of addiction is leading to different management techniques.  This will mitigate the issue from that end.  Pain clinics are becoming more popular.

Mitigating second- and third-generation adverse health behaviors in high-risk populations like smoking in the black population and drinking in the Hispanic population are where investments need to be made.  There have been small studies with good result with diet control and smoking cessation amongst low-income black populations.

These things take time, like two or three generations.  But people want the magic bullet, and they want it now.  What we DO know is abolition does not work, at all.  The over 'lives saved' will be enormous and savings to health care will be in the billions.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> It's not super hard to identify at-risk populations now; we do it for RSV, flu, immunocompromised.  It's not trying to invent something new.


The herd immunity strategy in this regard seems flawed because while we can identify in general at-risk sectors of society, it is rare that we can identify all the vulnerable members of society - especially with the discovery of 'long COVID-19' - and even more challenging to isolate them.  Additionally, this is magnified by the risk of COVID-19 reinfections in less vulnerable populations who feel they are finally 'safe' to go around more vulnerable members of society after having already contracted it once.

It also doesn't help that we already can't get many members of a 300+million population to consistently wear a mask or practice social distancing to prevent spreading it to vulnerable populations even when they are required to by law.

At best this approach to protecting the vulnerable could be practiced as part of a set of other strategies for combating the virus - such as wearing masks, practicing social distancing, and properly going into quarantine or isolation after exposure or contraction.


Devildoc said:


> Lockdowns are what the governments want to do (with masks and SD); or at least, what they are doing/did.  At least it's what is going on in NC from our governor, whose multi-phased plans are economically crippling and non-sensical.


Sure.   My point was that they are falsely suggesting that governments want to retain lockdown measures until a vaccine is produced, which is not the case.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 14, 2020)

Obesity leads to multiple comorbidities.  Obesity is also preventable.  

Saying the WHO has been right all along is hilarious as many have provided numerous evidence in this thread showing that they've changed their stance.  They also continued the lies and obfuscation of the Chinese government.  

What I don't understand is how Fauci said the right things in March stating that masks don't work (they don't) but now has had his heel turned and wears a mask everywhere.  

It's all politics. The only model that "worked" was Sweden.  Their curve looks almost like everyone elses and they did nothing on a mandatory basis.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Saying the WHO has been right all along is hilarious as many have provided numerous evidence in this thread showing that they've changed their stance.


Reiterating a claim you have repeatedly failed to source doesn't improve its veracity.


ThunderHorse said:


> It's all politics. The only model that "worked" was Sweden.  Their curve looks almost like everyone elses and they did nothing on a mandatory basis.


Do you think it is possible that there are differences in demographic, lifestyle, health care policy, household, health, and behavioral factors that can contribute to why Sweden was well-positioned to benefit from that strategy, as opposed to the United States?


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 14, 2020)

RE: WHO reversals:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243347886.html

WHO Reverses Itself on Claim that Asymptomatic Transmission of COVID-19 Is ‘Rare’

WHO reverses, says COVID-19 can be airborne indoors

I have an open bias against WHO.  While I know people who work for them/have worked for them, like any organization, it's rarely the guys on the ground that are of issue, but rather an inept/incompetent/politics-driven leadership.  That said, I try to check my bias because in light of new evidence, it's OK to change one's mind.  The problem, or question, is, are they changing course based on new evidence or political winds?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 14, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Reiterating a claim you have repeatedly failed to source doesn't improve its veracity.
> 
> Do you think it is possible that there are differences in demographic, lifestyle, health care policy, household, health, and behavioral factors that can contribute to why Sweden was well-positioned to benefit from that strategy, as opposed to the United States?



I've previously cited sources through multiple months on this "claim".  Everything "new" the who comes out with a backpedal.  This is a FACT.  If you want to say it's not, fine.  I even posted a link the other day and you were like: It doesn't say anything. Fine, you can have your opinion and I can have mine.

I read the data that just even comes out of the CDC itself that gets buried, which I posted in here not two days ago, showing that cloth masks do nothing.   I've posted data in here that shows Lockdowns are leading to high levels of suicide ideations and ODs.


----------



## Locksteady (Oct 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> RE: WHO reversals:
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article243347886.html
> 
> ...


These are good links, but perhaps out of context to my lockdown dangers point that I understood Thunderhorse was replying to (and which I was referring to when I said he repeatedly failed to provide links for his claim that WHO reversed course on the purpose and usage of lockdown):


Devildoc said:


> You know the seasons are changing when a lot of people in the medical and public health community are coming out and saying "you know, maybe all of this wasn't such a great idea...."





Locksteady said:


> That isn't a fair characterization of, at least, what WHO officials have been stating this entire time.





ThunderHorse said:


> Saying the WHO has been right all along is hilarious as many have provided numerous evidence in this thread showing that they've changed their stance.





Locksteady said:


> Reiterating a claim you have repeatedly failed to source doesn't improve its veracity.


To Thunderhorse:


ThunderHorse said:


> I even posted a link the other day and you were like: It doesn't say anything.


You posted another news network's edition of the same story that you had just admitted didn't demonstrate anything.

Were we supposed to glean a different conclusion from the same story?


ThunderHorse said:


> I read the data that just even comes out of the CDC itself that gets buried, which I posted in here not two days ago, showing that cloth masks do nothing.


The researchers in that study concluded several things.

This was not one of them.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's all politics. The only model that "worked" was Sweden.  Their curve looks almost like everyone elses and they did nothing on a mandatory basis.



I dunno; we've got less cases than the White House does atm.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I dunno; we've got less cases than the White House does atm.


And in this dumpster fire, a baby. A beautiful, Kiwi baby. Like @pardus


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> I dunno; we've got less cases than the White House does atm.


So does the African continent but it's unclear as to whether that means anything.
The pandemic appears to have spared Africa so far. Scientists are struggling to explain why


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 14, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So does the African continent but it's unclear as to whether that means anything.
> The pandemic appears to have spared Africa so far. Scientists are struggling to explain why



That's not a model though, which is what we were talking about.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> That's not a model though, which is what we were talking about.


You're right, it's not a model and that was kind of the point I was trying to make.  There is no model in place, yet the infection levels there are low.  They're not sure as to why.  This speaks to the many unknowns of the virus...or at least things being attributed to the virus. If nothing else, models have proven they aren't the end all beat all.  There is no evidence to  definitively support one approach over another.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 14, 2020)

Which still isn't what I was talking about. I was addressing the quote the Sweden is the only model that's worked which is untrue. You're inferring more than what I'm saying.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Which still isn't what I was talking about. I was addressing the quote the Sweden is the only model that's worked which is untrue. You're inferring more than what I'm saying.



There is a significant difference between NZ and the majority of the world and how much travel you had direct from Wuhan.  We had significant travel direct from Wuhan as did Europe.  Once you have a large exposure you're fucked as far as being able to stop it.  So the point is to just let it run.  Close the border, don't close the border, the POTUS will get criticized by the opposition.  We even have various models in the US with counties in the same state having completely different policies on masks and lockdowns and their infection curves are almost identical.  So, kill the economy?  Drive up Opiod use?  Drive up Domestic violence?  Drive up Suicides?  

In Arizona during this period, we've had a 140% increase in homicides from domestic violence.  Phoenix police: Domestic violence deaths more than double in 2020 so far

This article is from August and the data I got on Homicides from DV showing that was today, let me see if I can find publicly accessible data.  Also, in addition to that calls for response to DV is down significantly, not because it's not happening btw.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 14, 2020)

So now your comment is conditional?


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 14, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So does the African continent but it's unclear as to whether that means anything.
> The pandemic appears to have spared Africa so far. Scientists are struggling to explain why



No 5G, duh. Keep up!


----------



## AWP (Oct 14, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So does the African continent but it's unclear as to whether that means anything.
> The pandemic appears to have spared Africa so far. Scientists are struggling to explain why



Because in this day and age, even pandemics hate white people...

(Yeah, Asia and all that. The above is called sarcasm, some of you should really figure out this shit before posting or maybe stay off the Net in general.)


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 17, 2020)

Something to think about in regards to what a positive test means.  Nick Saban, head coach of Alabama had no symptoms this week at all.  The day before his positive test result he had a negative test.  In the three days following he took five tests, all five were negative. 

Saban gets 3rd negative test, can coach vs. UGA


----------



## Kaldak (Oct 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> In the three days following he took five tests, all three were negative.



Did you mean to say three tests taken and three negative?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 17, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Did you mean to say three tests taken and three negative?


Fixed. 5 tests in 3 days, all 5 tests were negative.


----------



## CAUSA (Oct 18, 2020)

My MiL is a charge nurse on the L&D floor at the hospital we went to for our first kid. My wife talked to her yesterday and their Covid guidelines were quite surprising to us. My wife is allowed 1 supporting person, 1 doula, and 1 visitor a day that is not under 14 and who cannot come back once they leave the floor that day. To top it off, we would be expected to wear masks the entire time, even while sleeping. 

I'm not sure how helpful wearing a mask will be while sleeping if we would be living in the room for 3 days, especially with how intimate a nurse becomes with a patient and their body/fluids.


----------



## Dame (Oct 19, 2020)

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm."
Nevada warned against using Chinese-made COVID tests 
#haditwiththisbullshit


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm."
> Nevada warned against using Chinese-made COVID tests
> #haditwiththisbullshit


Didn't we already know to stop using this?  I swear this has come up a million times when people were praising the Chinese government for sending kits out and the Italians were like: These Don't Work.  

Err it was the Spanish.  Chinese tests were 30% accurate.  

Spain, Europe's worst-hit country after Italy, says coronavirus tests it bought from China are failing to detect positive cases


----------



## Dame (Oct 19, 2020)

Not sure if Spain had the same tests but the problem here was the origin. They went through the UAE and I don't believe the hospitals knew they were Chinese.


----------



## AWP (Oct 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> Not sure if Spain had the same tests but the problem here was the origin. They went through the UAE and I don't believe the hospitals knew they were Chinese.



The UAE unwittingly or knowingly laundered faulty Chinese COVID tests?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 19, 2020)

AWP said:


> The UAE unwittingly or knowingly laundered faulty Chinese COVID tests?


Unknowingly, like with most of Europe the UAE got tons of destroyed PPE and faulty tests.  (millions that they didn't need)


----------



## Dame (Oct 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> The UAE unwittingly or knowingly laundered faulty Chinese COVID tests?


I don't generally believe in this type of coincidental accident.

From the article:


> The documents illustrate how the U.S. government actively — if quietly — tried to keep the state out of a project involving the Chinese firm BGI Group, which is the world's largest genetic sequencing company and which has expanded its reach during the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> The donation offer to Nevada also involved a shadowy Emirati company called Group 42, which partnered with Shenzhen-based BGI to create a rapid-testing system in the United Arab Emirates. G42 and government officials in the UAE did not respond to multiple requests for comment.


----------



## AWP (Oct 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> I don't generally believe in this type of coincidental accident.
> 
> From the article:



Group 42 has also paired with Israeli companies to work on CV-19 testing and is the first UAE company to open an office in Israel, doing so within days of the Accord announcement.

Shit like this is why people believe in shadowy cabals pulling strings...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 20, 2020)

So...you're telling me I haven't caught the 'Rona because I wash my mouth out with Listerine?

Human coronaviruses ‘inactivated’ by mouthwash, oral rinses: study | Fox News


----------



## CQB (Oct 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...you're telling me I haven't caught the 'Rona because I wash my mouth out with Listerine?
> 
> Human coronaviruses ‘inactivated’ by mouthwash, oral rinses: study | Fox News


I find a single malt works wonders as well.


----------



## AWP (Oct 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Something to think about in regards to what a positive test means.  Nick Saban, head coach of Alabama had no symptoms this week at all.  The day before his positive test result he had a negative test.  In the three days following he took five tests, all five were negative.
> 
> Saban gets 3rd negative test, can coach vs. UGA



Nick Saban could test positive for anything and everything. 'Bama would find a way to put him on the sideline come Sat. Negative tests, kill the docs and lab workers involved, whatever.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 26, 2020)

Going through God Emperor Newsom's new restrictions for California during Thanksgiving just making sure hotels weren't being closed as I'm going back to enemy territory to visit with my family.  Thankfully, it looks like we're ok.  I guess eating though is going to be painful. 

California Gov. Newsom's Thanksgiving rules explained as severe restrictions put in place


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Going through God Emperor Newsom's new restrictions for California during Thanksgiving just making sure hotels weren't being closed as I'm going back to enemy territory to visit with my family.  Thankfully, it looks like we're ok.  I guess eating though is going to be painful.
> 
> California Gov. Newsom's Thanksgiving rules explained as severe restrictions put in place



I posted something similar over on the politics thread since it could be both places.  I told me wife that if we still lived in Cali, his edicts would not change my plans; in fact, just to be a smart ass, I would invite a lot of people over for Thanksgiving.

I bend in a lot of places, but The Man telling me what I can/can't do on my property?  Yeahhhh.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I posted something similar over on the politics thread since it could be both places.  I told me wife that if we still lived in Cali, his edicts would not change my plans; in fact, just to be a smart ass, I would invite a lot of people over for Thanksgiving.
> 
> I bend in a lot of places, but The Man telling me what I can/can't do on my property?  Yeahhhh.....


Yeah I saw that there.  Figured it could use further discussion here since the discussion continued on a different path.  

What this does, just like Cuomo in New York is willfully puts Law Enforcement in harms way.  Private citizens having a peaceful meal?  Illegal, send the cops.


----------



## pardus (Oct 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> And in this dumpster fire, a baby. A beautiful, Kiwi baby. Like @pardus


That's right BITCHS!


Covid has been my entire life this whole goddamn shitty fucking cuntface of a year. I'm currently in a shitty alcohol free sand box running an ISOFAC for Uncle Sam, and I worked in an ER in NY close to the epicenter of the outbreak during the first dodgy months, I've been surrounded by cases almost everyday. I haven't been the best with wearing PPE strictly occording to the regs, but am yet to catch it (5 neg tests thus far) as of today's date. 
I'm fucked if I know what to think about transmission, I haven't seen much personal evidence that it's easily transmittable despite what we've been told, I'm a bit of a skeptic about the airborne claims, but with no evidence at all to dispute it, and I do not. I follow whatever the CDC says.
My personal thoughts, as of today, are that when a person is susceptible to becoming infected then they will get infected, if not then they are OK until the next time.
Ive been saying it since day one, it's going to take years to work this bastard virus out.
I didn't think NZ took the right path @SpitfireV , but they've been doing really well so far which im happy about though surprised. I am for the Swedish model (but fuck Sweden). 

We shall see, it's early days yet...


----------



## CQB (Oct 27, 2020)

Good to know you’re well mate. The Swedish model seems to have some value & it looks as if lockdowns are being thought of as counterproductive due to mental health issues & more importantly economic ones & the fiscal cliff will arrive some time next year.


----------



## pardus (Oct 27, 2020)

CQB said:


> Good to know you’re well mate. The Swedish model seems to have some value & it looks as if lockdowns are being thought of as counterproductive due to mental health issues & more importantly economic ones & the fiscal cliff will arrive some time next year.




Yes it was obvious right from the start that the lockdowns were going to have a terrible affect on society, the USA is finding that out with the riots etc... now. No bloody good.


----------



## CQB (Oct 27, 2020)

Victoria has just opened up yesterday. I still can’t believe their Premier is popular.


----------



## SpitfireV (Oct 27, 2020)

pardus said:


> I didn't think NZ took the right path @SpitfireV , but they've been doing really well so far which im happy about though surprised. I am for the Swedish model (but fuck Sweden).
> 
> We shall see, it's early days yet...



Yeah I'm happy it's worked but I have seen a lot of complacency myself from society (I'm doing COVID response at the moment) and even from a DHB (but I won't go into that publicly). I think it won't be until years after this has died down that best practice will get identified, which of course it won't mean much then  so hopefully it stays as it is. There was news today of the govt lying about something about it because, guess what, there was an election coming up.


----------



## digrar (Oct 28, 2020)

pardus said:


> Covid has been my entire life this whole goddamn shitty fucking cuntface of a year.



I got home twice in June. Otherwise I've been interstate for 196 of the last 218 days.



CQB said:


> Victoria has just opened up yesterday. I still can’t believe their Premier is popular.



Looking forward to the 3rd wave after Xmas New Years... Stretch this fucker out to 12 months away from home.


----------



## Scarecrow (Oct 28, 2020)

CQB said:


> Victoria has just opened up yesterday. I still can’t believe their Premier is popular.


Same here in Queensland, with the stupid petty fuck around games she is playing with the NSW government over the border closure whilst businesses are crumbling and livelihoods destroyed.  

Election on Saturday, couldn’t tell you which way I think it could go.


----------



## CQB (Oct 28, 2020)

Just under the radar in Victoria is that the top mob may be recalled to the commission of enquiry. The “l dunno, wasn’t be” excuse has been apparently exposed as an email has surfaced from a secretary with all the those who claim ignorance patched in to it. I hope they all lose their jobs for causing so much angst & economic vandalism.

Just caught the Vic govt. is going to set up another enquiry into their contact tracing failures. Bring it on!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 29, 2020)

Oh lovely. (Also, for whatever reason when I'm mobile I can't paste, no idew why, hence the screenshot)


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 29, 2020)

Second lockdown in France and Germany:  

'We are submerged': Europe faces new lockdowns as Covid outbreaks spiral

Our admin is thinking we may be heading to another as well....


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 29, 2020)

Europe has been sucking hard for the last couple of months. While I was in Germany just last month, Switzerland and Austria went on the no-go list, and Spain was soon following.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 29, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Second lockdown in France and Germany:
> 
> 'We are submerged': Europe faces new lockdowns as Covid outbreaks spiral
> 
> Our admin is thinking we may be heading to another as well....


If I were a betting man, (and I am) I would say nothing happens before Christmas. Too important to the economy.

Would not be at all surprised if whomever takes office in January, drops the “nationwide shut down” bomb three minutes later.


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 29, 2020)

So, none of us our experts on this virus, but turns out no one else is either.  With that in mind, when do you think the bull of the hysteria/concern around the virus will subside and we restore normalcy?

A) Novermber 4
B) Within 6 months
C) Within 1 year
D) 1 to 5 years
E) 5+ years
F) Never


----------



## Devildoc (Oct 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, none of us our experts on this virus, but turns out no one else is either.  With that in mind, when do you think the bull of the hysteria/concern around the virus will subside and we restore normalcy?
> 
> A) Novermber 4
> B) Within 6 months
> ...



It's hard to say, it depends on how soon they can field the vaccine.  My guesstimate? Within a year, but probably no less than 6 months.  Then we'll see a lot of lockdown start lifting because they'll have the vaccine out probably.

I am still perplexed at the mismatch between shutting down society and locking down the economy balanced against the virus with a 99% survival rate.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 29, 2020)

This is promising.   I fully expected any vaccine to need multiple boosters a year.  Get your quarterly Rona shot...

Immunity to coronavirus lingers for months, study finds


----------



## GOTWA (Oct 29, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> So, none of us our experts on this virus, but turns out no one else is either.  With that in mind, when do you think the bull of the hysteria/concern around the virus will subside and we restore normalcy?
> 
> A) Novermber 4
> B) Within 6 months
> ...


Truthfully I think that lies with the outcome of the elections. I won't say 4 Nov because I doubt we'll have a winner. But if Trump holds on, I think normalcy will happen before next summer. Call it April or May 2021. If Harris makes it in? Who knows.


----------



## Florida173 (Oct 29, 2020)

Maybe this is what we have to look forward to?


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 29, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> Maybe this is what we have to look forward to?


Yeah, fuck that. LOL.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 30, 2020)

Forget the Q-Tip to the brain, just test our shit. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/wastewater-levels-covid-19-1.5782488


----------



## CQB (Oct 30, 2020)

Too true, there’s positive samples in my cities south west, probably asymptomatic.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 4, 2020)

UK is going back on lockdown.

UK lawmakers approve month-long lockdown plan for England


----------



## Dame (Nov 4, 2020)

Denmark is losing an entire industry. These farmers are going to be in big trouble.
Denmark plans to cull its mink population after coronavirus mutation spreads to humans


----------



## pardus (Nov 5, 2020)

R.E. @Dame s posted article 

“The worst case scenario is a new pandemic, starting all over again out of Denmark,” said Kare Molbak, director at the State Serum Institute.

This is the type of scenario that brings the coronavirus into 1918 influenza league. A tad concerning to read this.


----------



## AWP (Nov 5, 2020)

One good thing about the election: we aren't being bombarded with 'Rona "news."
---

A co-worker's 48 YO ex-wife, smoker for 30 years, tested positive. She's lost her sense of taste and smell and their 16 YO son is sick as a dog, but they aren't testing him because "it's probably the flu."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 5, 2020)

Let's just say that the people who run the University of Manchester (UK) are bumbling idiots.  Mid last month a student takes their own life.  And then last night, they installed a lockdown fence. After the angry reaction from students and parents this morning the University admin was like: "Oh, sorry, we stupid, we'll take it down."  The student body said, no, we'll take it down for you.

Manchester University student, 19, found dead in halls of residence

Manchester Uni installs new lockdown fencing and security checks around campus

Manchester University students remove 'lockdown' fencing during huge protests - The Mancunion


----------



## AWP (Nov 5, 2020)

"What's the best way to protect our citizens?"
"Lock them up against their will?"
"Brilliant!"

_Executive Order 9066 has entered the chat_


----------



## Hungry_Dog (Nov 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Let's just say that the people who run the University of Manchester (UK) are bumbling idiots.  Mid last month a student takes their own life.  And then last night, they installed a lockdown fence. After the angry reaction from students and parents this morning the University admin was like: "Oh, sorry, we stupid, we'll take it down."  The student body said, no, we'll take it down for you.
> 
> Manchester University student, 19, found dead in halls of residence
> 
> ...



Definitely seems like a very detached governing body; too insulated during their thinking process


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 6, 2020)

Hmmm


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324878555424182273


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 7, 2020)

Is the election over already?!  <Checking the news and the calendar> 
Indoor concerts may be made safe from coronavirus spread, new study finds


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 7, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Is the election over already?!  <Checking the news and the calendar>
> Indoor concerts may be made safe from coronavirus spread, new study finds


Clearly it was never about the virus and all about who was in office.

I may have mentioned this earlier, but your chance of exposure on an airplane is extremely minimal because of how often new air is circulated into the cabin and old air is flushed.


----------



## Kraut783 (Nov 7, 2020)

True, wife is a AA flight attendant, forced air circulation and updated filters. She has been flying a full schedule during the Corona...no issues.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 7, 2020)

With this new data on air circulation on Jets.....I have that much more respect for the level of commitment those Burning it down and passing out on the early flights out of Las Vegas have when you smell their farts all the way to RDU.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 7, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> With this new data on air circulation on Jets.....I have that much more respect for the level of commitment those Burning it down and passing out on the early flights out of Las Vegas have when you smell their farts all the way to RDU.....


Quit eating so many beans.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 7, 2020)

So, refreshing change from politics, rona is back. In PA, southeast. Yea!


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 8, 2020)

Muppet said:


> So, refreshing change from politics, rona is back. In PA, southeast. Yea!



You should wear that outfit more often.  It really accentuates your eye's.  LOL


----------



## Dame (Nov 8, 2020)

Muppet said:


> So, refreshing change from politics, rona is back. In PA, southeast. Yea!


Agree with @RackMaster . You da man in dat garb mutherfucker.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

And now Utah is shutting it all down.  Another 14 days to kill the 'Rona!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325659249112993792


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 9, 2020)

I’ll never be able to articulate this the way the scientist did that I just listen to, but doing the shut down thing only slows the spreading of the virus, it does not kill it.

At the end of the day, we are trying to outsmart nature. Simon says, that never works.


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ll never be able to articulate this the way the scientist did that I just listen to, but doing the shut down thing only slows the spreading of the virus, it does not kill it.
> 
> At the end of the day, we are trying to outsmart nature. Simon says, that never works.


I forget his name off the top of my head, but I remember the one epidemiologist on Rogan months ago saying (paraphrasing here) "A two week or so lockdown could kill this, if you managed 100% compliance, which is a Herculean task to get people to do."


----------



## Salamie3 (Nov 9, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I forget his name off the top of my head, but I remember the one epidemiologist on Rogan months ago saying (paraphrasing here) "A two week or so lockdown could kill this, if you managed 100% compliance, which is a Herculean task to get people to do."


Bret Weinstein was his name.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I forget his name off the top of my head, but I remember the one epidemiologist on Rogan months ago saying (paraphrasing here) "A two week or so lockdown could kill this, if you managed 100% compliance, which is a Herculean task to get people to do."


I mean, the Chinese could have killed this if they didn't lie to the world about it.  But they did and then they did tons of shit to their own people while the rest of world fought COVID.  Not that I think the West would have done a damn thing for the people of Hong Kong or the Uyghurs.  Suffice to say, their response to SARS-COV-1 in which they also lied about, was much more rapid than this.

______

ETA: I'm struggling with the idea of this SARS-COV-2 vaccine being 90% effective, which is 30 points more effective than the flu vaccine. 

Pfizer says early analysis shows its Covid-19 vaccine is more than 90% effective


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> And now Utah is shutting it all down.  Another 14 days to kill the 'Rona!


With the way things are going here, something similar could be about to happen in New York. I heard this morning that we're at the highest infection rate since June.


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 9, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> I forget his name off the top of my head, but I remember the one epidemiologist on Rogan months ago saying (paraphrasing here) "A two week or so lockdown could kill this, if you managed 100% compliance, which is a Herculean task to get people to do."


@Salamie3 has the right of it, I think it was when Weinstein was talking about New Zealand's success in being able to do just that due to having much fewer people.

He's a biologist, though - you might have been confusing him with Michael Osterholm who, as it turns out, was just named to President-Elect Biden's Covid-19 Advisory Board.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> @Salamie3 has the right of it, I think it was when Weinstein was talking about New Zealand's success being able to do just that due to having much fewer people.
> 
> He's a biologist, though - you might have been confusing him with Michael Osterholm.


It was Osterholm and you can dig through this thread as people have varied opinions of him.  
____________

So we get a vaccine on the market in rapid time...but because it's going to be available under the Trump Administration it's "too early"?  Why does everything have to be political?  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325798495303950337


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It was Osterholm and you can dig through this thread as people have varied opinions of him.


Osterholm was indeed repeatedly referenced in this thread, but what @Cookie_ is talking about is correctly attributed to Weinstein.

The main takeaway from Osterholm's interview on Rogan was that  "people don't realize this is going to last for at least several months".  That was near the beginning of the shutdowns IIRC.

Weinstein was sometime in the summer, and he was the one saying that if the US had done a complete instead of half-assed shutdown for a few weeks that it could have been eradicated like in New Zealand but that it wasn't nearly as easy to do so.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Weinstein was sometime in the summer, and he was the one saying that if the US had done a complete instead of half-assed shutdown for a few weeks that it could have been eradicated like in New Zealand but that it wasn't nearly as easy to do so.


Got it, haven't watched that one yet.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ll never be able to articulate this the way the scientist did that I just listen to, but doing the shut down thing only slows the spreading of the virus, it does not kill it.
> 
> At the end of the day, we are trying to outsmart nature. Simon says, that never works.


So, how about this guy (posted earlier in this thread):

Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?

Dr. David Katz: Coronavirus vaccine or herd immunity are only ways life can fully return to normal






Looking back, was this guy wrong?  I don't think so.  He's not perfect but he's probably been the most "right" of the "experts" I've heard.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 9, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’ll never be able to articulate this the way the scientist did that I just listen to, but doing the shut down thing only slows the spreading of the virus, it does not kill it.
> 
> At the end of the day, we are trying to outsmart nature. Simon says, that never works.



That was part of the point of 'flattening the curve' way back in March.  But for a total, nationwide shutdown to work, everyone would need to lock in and isolate for about 6 weeks.  Two weeks ain't gonna do spit.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 9, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> With the way things are going here, something similar could be about to happen in New York. I heard this morning that we're at the highest infection rate since June.



NC, highest ever.  At some point the scales have to tip...population is a fixed number.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That was part of the point of 'flattening the curve' way back in March.  But for a total, nationwide shutdown to work, everyone would need to lock in and isolate for about 6 weeks.  Two weeks ain't gonna do spit.


To me, Dr Katz in the video I posted above hit the nail on the head, at least from a common sense perspective.  Even a lockdown doesn't stop the virus or it's impacts, it just moves the dates (by the way Bill Maher is a moron).


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 9, 2020)

I honestly probably just combined the statements from Weinstien and Osterholm, but same general idea.

Could a virus be stopped by massive shutdowns?

For sure.

Would we ever get a level of compliance that it would be a feasible course of action?

Probably not, unless it was something with a truly outrageous infection/death rate, like if Avian flu came back with transmisibility rates as high as COVID/common flu. Think that had a mortality rate ~60%.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 9, 2020)

It's kind of interesting... 

With the announcement from Pfizer and BioNTech today stating it's vaccine is testing 90% effective, and other trials from companies like AstraZeneca and J&J also entering late stages, it appears Trump will deliver on his promise for a vaccine by year end.

Every major news outlet, along with others, scoffed at this promise when made during his RNC speech. I'm absolutely 100% convinced Biden would've never pushed this along the way it has.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 9, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So we get a vaccine on the market in rapid time...but because it's going to be available under the Trump Administration it's "too early"?  Why does everything have to be political?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325798495303950337


It's because it happened on Trump's watch.  It was an impossibility.

As I mentioned in my previous post.  When Trump made his promise, he was openly scoffed at by the media. There is simply no way Biden would've accelerated it this way.

There are many things I don't care for when it comes to Trump. Yeah, he makes some stupid and mean Tweets. However, one key thing he does bring is the willingness to set stretch goals and challenge people to go make them happen. Leaders need to have the willingness and mindset to achieve the impossible. Trump has that mindset and we're fortunate he did. He's done this with more than just the virus as well. So, kudos to him.


----------



## AWP (Nov 9, 2020)

Someone break it down Barney-style for me: how would a total lockdown fix our CV-19 problem? We lockdown, but then open it back up and the disease is gone? It seems that we're just kicking the can down the road unless we 100% locked down the borders and managed to become an island.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> Someone break it down Barney-style for me: how would a total lockdown fix our CV-19 problem? We lockdown, but then open it back up and the disease is gone? It seems that we're just kicking the can down the road unless we 100% locked down the borders and managed to become an island.



A virus is much simpler genomically than bacteria. It needs a host in order to survive and replicate. The theory is if everyone is isolated and no one is out spreading it then it would kill itself off after probably two life cycles or generations.  Would it happen? Probably not. But that's the theory.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> A virus is much simpler genomically than bacteria. It needs a host in order to survive and replicate. The theory is if everyone is isolated and no one is out spreading it then it would kill itself off after probably two life cycles or generations.  Would it happen? Probably not. But that's the theory.


Essentially, the entire world would have to do it, yes?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 9, 2020)

National Mask Mandate here we go...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325890910635384839


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 9, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Essentially, the entire world would have to do it, yes?



The more you could make this happen, theoretically the more chance of eradication.  You can't even get a single county anywhere in this country to do it, much less a state.  But even then, let's say the entire country did it, Canada doesn't do it, Mexico sure as hell doesn't do it, they keep international flights coming in, it starts spreading all over again, so yes, every country would have to do it.


----------



## AWP (Nov 9, 2020)

So in other words, to defeat the virus we would have to do something that is practically impossible. That being the case, why do people even push this narrative?

"We should totally go back to the moon. All we have to do is launch a big enough rocket at it. Look how big it is, we can't miss!"


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 9, 2020)

AWP said:


> So in other words, to defeat the virus we would have to do something that is practically completely impossible. That being the case, why do people even push this narrative?


Fixed that for you.

But I agree.


----------



## Kraut783 (Nov 9, 2020)

Again, protect the elderly and people that are endangered by underlining symptoms , the rest....get back to work.

lockdowns only move the dates down the road....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 10, 2020)

I love how people are just fawning over Biden's COVID transition team...well, this guy [Ezekiel Emanuel] seems great  .

Why I Hope to Die at 75


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 10, 2020)

A positive I see is Dr Osterholm joining Biden's team


Osterholm joins Biden's COVID task force


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I love how people are just fawning over Biden's COVID transition team...well, this guy seems great  .
> 
> Why I Hope to Die at 75


I feel like I’ve seen this movie before, well actually it was a TV show (And they offed their elderly at “60”)


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 10, 2020)

Trudeau trying to guilt the lower levels of government to lock us down. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trdueau-premiers-covid-restrictions-1.5796720


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 10, 2020)

I want Trump back!

Biden coronavirus adviser wants US to distribute vaccine globally before it's available to all Americans — Fox News


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I want Trump back!
> 
> Biden coronavirus adviser wants US to distribute vaccine globally before it's available to all Americans — Fox News


Of course the senior citizens that run the Biden campaign appoint a quack to lead their COVID-19 transition team.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I want Trump back!
> 
> Biden coronavirus adviser wants US to distribute vaccine globally before it's available to all Americans — Fox News


Yeah, fuck him....not that I have a lot of interest in standing in line for it but it should go to our at risk populations first.  No question.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 10, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Yeah, fuck him....not that I have a lot of interest in standing in line for it but it should go to our at risk populations first.  No question.


I'm actually OK with the concept as it is explained in the article (below).  The way I understand it, the producing nation keeps enough on hand to establish herd immunity, then it is exported to the rest of the world.  This is practicality, not ethics to me.  We get our rate of transmission down, then we help the rest of the world.  Because if we don't help the rest of the world, guess what? That shit's coming right back here.  Plus, we need the world healthy to 1) buy our expensive stuff, and 2) sell us their cheap stuff.



> The model allows the country that produces the vaccine to hold onto enough of a supply to reach a threshold for herd immunity ("Rt below 1"). Beyond that, the model supports distributing the vaccine internationally, which means giving away or selling doses of the vaccine before it's available to every citizen in that country, Emanuel explained to Scientific American.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 10, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Plus, we need the world healthy to 1) buy our expensive stuff, and 2) sell us their cheap stuff.



Like If for nothing other than keeping our economy healthy.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 10, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm actually OK with the concept as it is explained in the article (below).  The way I understand it, the producing nation keeps enough on hand to establish herd immunity, then it is exported to the rest of the world.  This is practicality, not ethics to me.  We get our rate of transmission down, then we help the rest of the world.  Because if we don't help the rest of the world, guess what? That shit's coming right back here.  Plus, we need the world healthy to 1) buy our expensive stuff, and 2) sell us their cheap stuff.


OK...but fuck China.  They can get their own.


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 10, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I want Trump back!
> 
> Biden coronavirus adviser wants US to distribute vaccine globally before it's available to all Americans — Fox News


I'd rather something this rushed from development get tested on be provided to other countries before the army forces me to get it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> A positive I see is Dr Osterholm joining Biden's team
> 
> 
> Osterholm joins Biden's COVID task force



No thanks for me.  He's out here continuing to talk about 4-6 week hard lockdowns.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326637282468696066


----------



## Dame (Nov 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> No thanks for me.  He's out here continuing to talk about 4-6 week hard lockdowns.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326637282468696066


We'll all be broke.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 11, 2020)

Dame said:


> We'll all be broke.



If they're planning on doing stimulus checks, they can suck an egg. I still have never recieved my first one even though I was eligible.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 11, 2020)

COVID wouldn't even be on the radar anymore if we had scientists this dedicated working on it:


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 11, 2020)

Sleep well, America.


----------



## AWP (Nov 12, 2020)

Dame said:


> We'll all be broke.



Hmm, I think that's one of Alinsky's steps to socialism....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

Dear people of Chicago...you should probably start voting for people that aren't corrupt. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326299886845718528
This is some tone deaf trash that is what can only be considered waste and abuse.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

Oh Cuomo...idiot. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326822152172167168


----------



## Grunt (Nov 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Oh Cuomo...idiot.


Do as I say serfs...not as I do. Again I say...do what I tell you...I know what's important for you....


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I feel like I’ve seen this movie before, well actually it was a TV show (And they offed their elderly at “60”)



Logan's Run, too.... set life expectancy at 60 or something I don't remember.

RE: Vaccine, I tell people I am not anti-vax, but I AM anti-first-in-line-for-new-untested-vaccine.  I saw too many Marines and Sailors get goofed up from the vaccine du jour after 9/11.

Edited to add, just heard that we are on tap for first round of any vaccine coming out.  This is my department's reaction:


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Logan's Run, too.... set life expectancy at 60 or something I don't remember.
> 
> RE: Vaccine, I tell people I am not anti-vax, but I AM anti-first-in-line-for-new-untested-vaccine.  I saw too many Marines and Sailors get goofed up from the vaccine du jour after 9/11.
> 
> ...



I'm friends with a dude on the Facebook that is publicizing the fact that he signed up to be a test subject for the first round!


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm friends with a dude on the Facebook that is publicizing the fact that he signed up to be a test subject for the first round!



I know a few people who are in active trials, and I know several people who want to be first in line.  Not me.  In fact, most of my department want to be last, see what happens to the others first.


----------



## DA SWO (Nov 12, 2020)

pardus said:


> R.E. @Dame s posted article
> 
> “The worst case scenario is a new pandemic, starting all over again out of Denmark,” said Kare Molbak, director at the State Serum Institute.
> 
> This is the type of scenario that brings the coronavirus into 1918 influenza league. A tad concerning to read this.


Why?  If lethality doesn't change, then it is just another flu.


Cookie_ said:


> I forget his name off the top of my head, but I remember the one epidemiologist on Rogan months ago saying (paraphrasing here) "A two week or so lockdown could kill this, if you managed 100% compliance, which is a Herculean task to get people to do."


Impossible, Hospitals, Police,Firemen (and a shit ton of others) will have to travel.  


Devildoc said:


> The more you could make this happen, theoretically the more chance of eradication.  You can't even get a single county anywhere in this country to do it, much less a state.  But even then, let's say the entire country did it, Canada doesn't do it, Mexico sure as hell doesn't do it, they keep international flights coming in, it starts spreading all over again, so yes, every country would have to do it.


El Paso is red again, they go red after every major holiday.  They put a statement out saying it's coming from bars and resteraunts, with a little blurb about travel to/from Mexico.  Wait! WHAT! Mexico? 
They seriously down play any cross-border stuff, and also refuse to comment on Mexicans coming here (El paso, Rio Grande Valley) for treatment.


Marauder06 said:


> I'm actually OK with the concept as it is explained in the article (below).  The way I understand it, the producing nation keeps enough on hand to establish herd immunity, then it is exported to the rest of the world.  This is practicality, not ethics to me.  We get our rate of transmission down, then we help the rest of the world.  Because if we don't help the rest of the world, guess what? That shit's coming right back here.  Plus, we need the world healthy to 1) buy our expensive stuff, and 2) sell us their cheap stuff.


Go ahead and pass it out to everyone but China, fuck China.  Though I suspect China Joe will make sure his overlords get the first batch (funny if those batches were defective)


Devildoc said:


> Logan's Run, too.... set life expectancy at 60 or something I don't remember.
> 
> RE: Vaccine, I tell people I am not anti-vax, but I AM anti-first-in-line-for-new-untested-vaccine.  I saw too many Marines and Sailors get goofed up from the vaccine du jour after 9/11.
> 
> ...


Same for me, I think Anthrax vaccines seriosly fucked me over.


ThunderHorse said:


> I'm friends with a dude on the Facebook that is publicizing the fact that he signed up to be a test subject for the first round!


Good for him, seriously. Hope it works out.


----------



## Dame (Nov 12, 2020)

Nevada is pretty pissed off at being scolded like this is our fault or something. Get our act together? Seriously?
There are casinos that never opened again. Restaurants won't let you sit down. Everyone has a mask on.
ETA: Schools aren't even open.
Nevada Governor Threatens to Close Las Vegas (AGAIN) - Pace.Vegas


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> El Paso is red again, they go red after every major holiday.  They put a statement out saying it's coming from bars and resteraunts, with a little blurb about travel to/from Mexico.  Wait! WHAT! Mexico?
> They seriously down play any cross-border stuff, and also refuse to comment on Mexicans coming here (El paso, Rio Grande Valley) for treatment.


Yeah that stuff annoys me after having lived there.  Beto O'Rourke and his clown show that run the local media need to get gagged.

The County Judge is also an idiot, to the point where the AG sent a letter to the Mayor telling him the Judge's Executive order was unlawful and to not enforce anything.  I don't know how bars could be responsible for anything there since most of the restaurants and bars never went back to seating people even when they weren't dark red.

Oh great, the continued fear porn from the Bezos Mouthpiece Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/12/covid-social-gatherings/



> A record-breaking surge in U.S. coronavirus cases is being driven to a significant degree by casual occasions that may feel deceptively safe, officials and scientists warn — dinner parties, game nights, sleepovers and carpools.


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 12, 2020)

So your contention is thst close and continued contact like those examples...doesn't help spread the virus?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> So your contention is thst close and continued contact like those examples...doesn't help spread the virus?



Not my contention at all.  My contention is that the people are done.


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 12, 2020)

Well no you're saying they're fear mongering and then using that quote. So what are you trying to say if my interpretation is wrong?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Well no you're saying they're fear mongering and then using that quote. So what are you trying to say if my interpretation is wrong?



Yes, although maybe unintentionally.  I Just pulled the first sentence of the article and put it in a quote.  Not generally to "support" my position that I think they're fear mongering which I definitely believe they are.  It's November, the virus was on our shore more than a year ago. 

People are congregating and having dinner parties instead of going out to dinner because in certain parts of the country you can't have a group of more than six unless you're in the same household.  We're done with it here, even my most liberal friends who think/thought there should be harsh lockdowns who also just had huge Halloween parties.


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 12, 2020)

Looks like I missed an investment opportunity here...did not see that coming...

A global black market for negative COVID-19 test results has emerged, with fakes starting around $200


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

You don't say...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326984370842906625


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 12, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You don't say...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326984370842906625


And to compound the issue, many therapists are so overwhelmed they can't take any new patients and/or have month or longer waits.  Which means these young people can't get the immediate help they need.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 12, 2020)

I might have saw it here or just read it on the news, but there was a report that many children that were once potty trained have regressed back to diapers.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I might have saw it here or just read it on the news, but there was a report that many children that were once potty trained have regressed back to diapers.


Probably some adults too.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 12, 2020)

I mean, I don't really think it's funny. 

Kids have regressed due to COVID-19 restrictions, with some potty-trained kids going back to diapers, experts say


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I mean, I don't really think it's funny.
> 
> Kids have regressed due to COVID-19 restrictions, with some potty-trained kids going back to diapers, experts say



People are saying that things will change forever with education etc.  I think Public school may as parents seek private schools that will do in person learning.  My FiL is in the headshed of a major school district in Texas and their enrollment in pre-k and kindergarten is down 50%, not a phenomenon only being witnesses by them.  Enrollment is down significantly across all grade levels in Texas whether that's in-person or virtual.  In their district, the rate of children with at least one failing grade in a class from 6th through 12th grade is up 3x.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 12, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I mean, I don't really think it's funny.
> 
> Kids have regressed due to COVID-19 restrictions, with some potty-trained kids going back to diapers, experts say


On a serious note, I agree with you. There's increasing evidence of serious secondary and tertiary negative impacts on our young people. This is one example. I'm also very concerned about those we're not seeing.


----------



## digrar (Nov 12, 2020)

'A huge relief': South Australia to re-open border with Victoria from December 1

I should be able to get home this year. Excellent.


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 12, 2020)

digrar said:


> 'A huge relief': South Australia to re-open border with Victoria from December 1
> 
> I should be able to get home this year. Excellent.


Great news!  

Please stay safe throughout.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 13, 2020)

Elon Musk isn't my favorite person but a lot of people listen to him and he's crying foul on Covid tests:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327125840040169472


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 13, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Elon Musk isn't my favorite person but a lot of people listen to him and he's crying foul on Covid tests:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327125840040169472


We've discussed that a lot here, the numbers are all bogus.

ETA: PAC-12 Apologizes For False-Positive That Impacted Stanford In All The Worst Ways

False positives everywhere.

ETA 2: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327361965178687488
So...will Oregon arrest rioters and charge them with violations under the lockdown measures?


----------



## AWP (Nov 13, 2020)

Let's beat this horse again. Say it loud, say it proud.

The numbers are bullshit.

The second and third order effects will kill millions and destroy tens of millions of lives


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 14, 2020)

Newsom: You can only have a single household thanksgiving

Also Newsom: Let's get this dinner party swag on

Newsom faces backlash after attending French Laundry dinner party

"Rules for thee, but not for me"

Can I get a state trooper to arrest this asshole?  Or is it just a fineable offense?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 14, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Newsom: You can only have a single household thanksgiving
> 
> Also Newsom: Let's get this dinner party swag on
> 
> ...


I expect that shit, I’m more interested in this....

_The Democratic governor, *First Partner Jennifer Siebel Newsom* and people from several other households gathered o...._

His wife is referred to as the “first partner”?  

Fucking CA really is it’s own little world, isn’t it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I expect that shit, I’m more interested in this....
> 
> _The Democratic governor, *First Partner Jennifer Siebel Newsom* and people from several other households gathered o...._
> 
> ...


I'm sure her pronouns are on her business card.


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 14, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I expect that shit, I’m more interested in this....
> 
> _The Democratic governor, *First Partner Jennifer Siebel Newsom* and people from several other households gathered o...._
> 
> ...


Even that, Ooh-Rah, is just garnish on the plate of civic word sanitation in northern California.

Berkeley drops words like 'manpower' in push to be inclusive



> There will be no *manholes* in Berkeley, California. City workers will drop into "*maintenance holes*" instead.
> 
> Nothing will be *manmade* in the liberal city but "*human-made*." And students at the University of California, Berkeley, will join "*collegiate Greek system residences*" rather than *fraternities and sororities*.
> 
> Berkeley leaders voted unanimously this week to replace about 40 gender-specific words in the city code with gender-neutral terms — an effort to be more inclusive that's drawing both praise and scorn.  That means "*manpower*" will become "*human effort*" or "*workforce,*" while masculine and feminine pronouns like* "she," ''her," ''he" and "him" *will be replaced by "*they*" and "*them*," according to the measure approved Tuesday by the City Council.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 14, 2020)




----------



## GOTWA (Nov 14, 2020)

I haven't even received my flu shot this year. I'm so reckless.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I haven't even received my flu shot this year. I'm so reckless.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 14, 2020)

I got mine... no one want's to be on the CSM's naughty list...


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 14, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I got mine... no one want's to be on the CSM's naughty list...


Let them come.


----------



## CQB (Nov 14, 2020)

I’ve skimmed the last two pages or so, so I may not be across all the opinions, but check out the Australian reactions & compare the strategy of Victoria & New South Wales. Victoria has runaway infections that saw the state lockdown for a very serious amount of time, economic suicide in some opinions. New South Wales  has had a better result. I add that we locked all borders to interstate travel as well.
The fundamental difference between the two was contact tracing; Victorian Health had virtually none with a centralised system whilst the NSW health system was dispersed a ross the state. In Victoria the spread wasn’t easy to contain as they were playing catch-up. They’re ok now but the economic cost to the state & the nation as a whole was a negative. The virus is still active in SW Sydney as the boffins monitor it in sewerage. But we have it at a point it won’t overwhelm the health system. Why mention all this? Our PM, SCOMO has been in touch with PE Biden who is quite interested in how we got numbers down, so watch for some unpleasant outcomes & believe me, some of it is a hassle, but it’s now manageable.


----------



## Florida173 (Nov 15, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’ve skimmed the last two pages or so, so I may not be across all the opinions, but check out the Australian reactions & compare the strategy of Victoria & New South Wales. Victoria has runaway infections that saw the state lockdown for a very serious amount of time, economic suicide in some opinions. New South Wales  has had a better result. I add that we locked all borders to interstate travel as well.
> The fundamental difference between the two was contact tracing; Victorian Health had virtually none with a centralised system whilst the NSW health system was dispersed a ross the state. In Victoria the spread wasn’t easy to contain as they were playing catch-up. They’re ok now but the economic cost to the state & the nation as a whole was a negative. The virus is still active in SW Sydney as the boffins monitor it in sewerage. But we have it at a point it won’t overwhelm the health system. Why mention all this? Our PM, SCOMO has been in touch with PE Biden who is quite interested in how we got numbers down, so watch for some unpleasant outcomes & believe me, some of it is a hassle, but it’s now manageable.




Those mask fines that the law enforcement has been passing out are pretty rough.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 15, 2020)

CQB said:


> I’ve skimmed the last two pages or so, so I may not be across all the opinions, but check out the Australian reactions & compare the strategy of Victoria & New South Wales. Victoria has runaway infections that saw the state lockdown for a very serious amount of time, economic suicide in some opinions. New South Wales  has had a better result. I add that we locked all borders to interstate travel as well.
> The fundamental difference between the two was contact tracing; Victorian Health had virtually none with a centralised system whilst the NSW health system was dispersed a ross the state. In Victoria the spread wasn’t easy to contain as they were playing catch-up. They’re ok now but the economic cost to the state & the nation as a whole was a negative. The virus is still active in SW Sydney as the boffins monitor it in sewerage. But we have it at a point it won’t overwhelm the health system. Why mention all this? Our PM, SCOMO has been in touch with PE Biden who is quite interested in how we got numbers down, so watch for some unpleasant outcomes & believe me, some of it is a hassle, but it’s now manageable.



I'm sure some of our governors will abdicate their responsibility to their citizenry and violate any restrictions they implement.  But I have to tell ya, I've been to a few other states now this fall, and everyone's wearing a mask.  So if people think masks are the cure all, masks ain't doing nada.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 15, 2020)

Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it. 

The Great Reset


----------



## Dame (Nov 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it.
> 
> The Great Reset


Is it time to bug out yet?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 15, 2020)

Dame said:


> Is it time to bug out yet?


I used to laugh at the “one world order” shit.... these days I don’t laugh as much as I used to.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it.
> 
> The Great Reset


Interesting read.  Kind of gave me a "New World Order" / far left agenda vibe though.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 15, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Interesting read.  Kind of gave me a "New World Order" / far left agenda vibe though.



Since the election and Biden being declared, I've been getting that vibe from a lot of stories.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it.
> 
> The Great Reset


Yep. Though it only works if we let ourselves be cowed by the transnational bureaucratic felchers pushing it. These people are actively trying to destroy the west. 

Screenshot from the site should help give insight as to whom the great reset's 'partners' are.


----------



## CQB (Nov 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm sure some of our governors will abdicate their responsibility to their citizenry and violate any restrictions they implement.  But I have to tell ya, I've been to a few other states now this fall, and everyone's wearing a mask.  So if people think masks are the cure all, masks ain't doing nada.


Yes, it seems so. I used to wear one on public transport to & from work until the passenger numbers were limited, so there was no real need after that. Contact tracing is the good oil.


----------



## CQB (Nov 15, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it.
> 
> The Great Reset


Yes, I’ve had a gander at it...There’s others online who think it’s some kind of conspiracy to control everyone. It sounds like a good idea but when it meets head on with reality...


----------



## pardus (Nov 16, 2020)

DA SWO said:


> Why?  If lethality doesn't change, then it is just another flu.



The point is that a virus is constantly changing, when it jumps species the mutations _can _become quite different indeed. Most major diseases have become zoonotic (jumped from animal to human) some with devastating results. (it's a roll of the dice, russian roulette if you will)
Plauge, Rabies, Lyme disease, smallpox, anthrax, HIV, measles,, Ebola, Malaria, Dengue fever, West Nile virus, Typhus are some obvious examples of zoonotic diseases that many are aware of. 
Don't be fooled into thinking this is _just_ another flu, it is more than that, exactly what we still don't know, the study of SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 will be going on long after we are all dead and gone. We are   learning new  things about it all the time, a lot of which are unsettling. 
Complacency is only going to make this worse. Is locking the world's economy down worth it? I think the answer to that is a resounding no, but this is no hoax.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 16, 2020)

pardus said:


> The point is that a virus is constantly changing, when it jumps species the mutations _can _become quite different indeed. Most major diseases have become zoonotic (jumped from animal to human) some with devastating results. (it's a roll of the dice, russian roulette if you will)
> Plauge, Rabies, Lyme disease, smallpox, anthrax, HIV, measles,, Ebola, Malaria, Dengue fever, West Nile virus, Typhus are some obvious examples of zoonotic diseases that many are aware of.
> Don't be fooled into thinking this is _just_ another flu, it is more than that, exactly what we still don't know, the study of SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 will be going on long after we are all dead and gone. We are   learning new  things about it all the time, a lot of which are unsettling.
> Complacency is only going to make this worse. Is locking the world's economy down worth it? I think the answer to that is a resounding no, but this is no hoax.



Our institution has been war-gaming it, looking at potential superbugs and likely vectors and scenarios.  There are scenarios which make COVID look downright simple and friendly.

They all need a host, and when they jump from animal to human, it's a jump of opportunity, but humans make poor hosts for some of these things (cutaneous anthrax, ebola/hemorrhagic fevers).  Others, we're great hosts...HIV, small pox, etc.  Thank God for vaccines for some of these things, as well as antibiotics for others.

I am not a fan of the COVID-flu comparison because they are two entirely separate organisms.  I also don't like the comparison because flu is generally deadlier across the life span and with people without comorbidities, whereas COVID is deadlier among specific age groups and those with comorbidities.

I agree that complacency makes this worse, as does the shutting-everything-down-and-die-out-for-two-months approach.  The current approach is like amputating an entire leg for a hang nail, when the right approach would save not just the leg but also the toe.

Definitely not a hoax, but also not quite the chicken little/sky is falling scenario, either.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 16, 2020)

Is it complacency though? I would think a better word is acceptance. I believe many of us have accepted it for what it is.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

We've already done the lockdown thing for months on end. The suicide and OD rates continue to climb. Recovery rate of COVID-19 being super high, I'm not sure what you want a nation of 350 million to do that is fatigued. 

You do a hard lockdown again and you will have both violence and an insane amount of ODs and suicides that will make the death rate of this virus look like nothing. 

However, we also know that the numbers are bullshit and the accuracy of testing is...well it ain't good. Also, if the Flu vaccine only has a 50-60% effective rate, how are these two new vaccines racing for approval in the 90th percentile?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> However, we also know that the numbers are bullshit and the accuracy of testing is...well it ain't good


Which numbers are “bullshit”?


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Also, if the Flu vaccine only has a 50-60% effective rate, how are these two new vaccines racing for approval in the 90th percentile?



The "90%" is based off a very small sample of 94 infections. They expect the number to drop over the course of the study.





> Still, Monday’s announcement doesn’t mean for certain that a vaccine is imminent: This interim analysis, from an independent data monitoring board, looked at 94 infections recorded so far in a study that has enrolled nearly 44,000 people in the U.S. and five other countries.



Pfizer says COVID-19 vaccine is looking 90% effective


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Has anyone read about The Great Reset?  The World Economic Forum is pushing it.
> 
> The Great Reset


The ghost of Robert Heilbroner must be happy...I'm not sure the reset is the world philosophy reborn he invisioned, however...


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 16, 2020)

Testing numbers, infected/recovery numbers, covid death and covid linked death numbers. It's been discussed in depth. Even @AWP doesn't buy it.

Know what the media isn't pushing these days? Death numbers. Only infected rates. It went from Trump killed 240k people to mass reporting on "historical highs" for new infections. 

I'd say a lot of the paranoia has to do with where you live which correlates with how you vote. AZ has been normal-ish since I got back from Afghanistan in August. Aside from masks, people have been peopling.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 16, 2020)

Admittedly I’m looking at this from a personal standpoint, but I have an aunt who is a terminal cancer patient in an uncle who is a cardiac patient, both were in needs of beds this weekend and could not get into the hospital because they were overflowed with Covid patients.

To me those numbers are not “bullshit”.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Admittedly I’m looking at this from a personal standpoint, but I have an aunt who is a terminal cancer patient in an uncle who is a cardiac patient, both were in needs of beds this weekend and could not get into the hospital because they were overflowed with Covid patients.
> 
> To me those numbers are not “bullshit”.



Bed capacity is tricky.  So not every bed can admit any type of patient.  To make a room (or bed, for hospital census purposes) COVID-acceptable you need special equipment, and there is a hard number on that equipment.  You will not put a COVID patient in a room next to a cancer patient.

COVID patients go to specific areas, floors, or rooms; now what likely happened is that they displaced the patients who were supposed to go to those rooms, who ended up in a cancer bed or cards bed.

Also, it is hospital specific.  Last week we had some open beds, and we had some units whose beds were full.  I don't think we were anywhere near capacity for COVID patients yet.  I have no idea about today.

Regardless of all of that, it sucks that your family can't get the resources they need, regardless of the reason.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Is it complacency though? I would think a better word is acceptance. I believe many of us have accepted it for what it is.



Complacency leads to drift, drift leads to taking risks, risks lead to higher probability of getting sick.  Complacency, acceptance, whatever, people are just COVID fatugued.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Admittedly I’m looking at this from a personal standpoint, but I have an aunt who is a terminal cancer patient in an uncle who is a cardiac patient, both were in needs of beds this weekend and could not get into the hospital because they were overflowed with Covid patients.
> 
> To me those numbers are not “bullshit”.


It's always difficult to look at situations this way; when they impact those family members and friends close to us.  I too know people that were infected. This is not to discount those personal connections, however, in order to move forward, we have to discuss and work with numbers/statistics in a way that addresses overall risk and realities.  

The problem is the response from officials is unnecessarily compounding issues. The initial argument for lockdowns 6+ mo. ago was so the curve could be flattened and hospitals could prepare; plans, PPE, staffing, etc.  So, what's been going on (can only speak broadly about our local situation)...many procedures that help keep hospitals afloat were ceased.  Hospitals have cut staff and are even closing. This has the exact opposite impact.  What's more, it appears we've simply wasted 6+ mo. because they're not significantly better prepared.  That's a huge issue and is indicative how state officials have mismanaged this effort.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Complacency leads to drift, drift leads to taking risks, risks lead to higher probability of getting sick.  Complacency, acceptance, whatever, people are just COVID fatugued.


That's fair. 

@Ooh-Rah it truly is unfortunate, but if the need for space is still there, why aren't we running field hospitals or covid treatment centers? We're coming up on a year of covid and there was an expectation many months ago for a fall flare up. Why are we still behind? State governments told Trump early on they were in charge then blamed him for their failures. Local governments are also culpable. Why are they still hunting for space with all the resources at their disposal?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Which numbers are “bullshit”?


Most of them?

We're on page 152, but I'll go back and quote some posts here with links.  so this may take a bit.


Ooh-Rah said:


> Admittedly I’m looking at this from a personal standpoint, but I have an aunt who is a terminal cancer patient in an uncle who is a cardiac patient, both were in needs of beds this weekend and could not get into the hospital because they were overflowed with Covid patients.
> 
> To me those numbers are not “bullshit”.



When it comes to this disease, the people who have the highest chance of infection are those with two or more co-morbidities and that is also the cohort that has the highest mortality rate.  However, with great care many more people who've been treated for this virus two or more co-morbidities have recovered. 



AWP said:


> Why in the hell is anyone paying attention to the models? ANY of them? They've been proven time and time again to be bullshit and yet we continue to hang our hopes and fears on "the models" as if those garbage numbers will save us. We're reading tea leaves, but with math and scientists instead of a pseudo-gypsy circus sideshow with cards or a magic eight ball. These dumb ass models belong in the dot thread and should be taken as seriously as a new member who will die before he quits in his quest to be a Tier 1 operator.
> 
> How can y'all sit there with straight faces and make arguments around CV-19 projections?





AWP said:


> As I've said before, the data is bullshit. We're making decisions based upon bad numbers without acknowledging those numbers are flawed.





AWP said:


> Not that anyone here has stated the numbers are bullshit...
> 
> You're in the thick of it and seeing some of the worst possible. I will not under any circumstances discount your experience. I also will not trust the offical numbers even if they fit with your experience, because as you know the world is a much larger sample size.
> 
> ...





757 said:


> To piggyback off of what @Florida173 said, my brother in law and his fiance just drove up from the Tampa area to visit this past week and reported similar things happening (people never being tested and reports coming back positive) to people he and his fiance knew. On top of that, false-positives are also a real thing.
> 
> "Connecticut’s State Public Health Laboratory has uncovered a flaw in one of the testing systems it uses to test for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The flaw, which has been reported to both the manufacturer and the federal Food and Drug Administration, led to *90 of 144* people tested during June 15–July 17, 2020 receiving a false positive COVID test report." *Bolded for emphasis* -source
> 
> Fear is an incredibly powerful motivator and can drive otherwise rational people to extreme ends. Mild example: toilet paper. Extreme example: burning "witches" in New England.





AWP said:


> My wife's friend that is an RN, I think I mentioned how she had the 'Rona. Anyway, her 14 days are up and she's back at work.
> 
> - There's growing skepticism among the doctors and nurses that the numbers they are reporting are the same being reported to the CDC. Like the motorcyclist who crashed and died but was reported as a CV-19 fatality, the books are being cooked somewhere.
> 
> ...





AWP said:


> If the stats are bullshit...what else is questionable? If you can't trust simple numbers like x have the diesase, y died from the disease...how do you trust the rest of the story? Oh, the stats are wrong, but the research data is right? Yeah, hard pass from me.
> 
> Even the truth is lies because how do you trust the rest?





AWP said:


> Were they actually positive? Did they actually have the disease? As I posted earlier, an RN friend of ours, at her hospital some of the docs sent off blank swabs that came back CV-19 positive. They did this twice. There are 6+ "positive" cases on the books for tests that were never taken.
> 
> Without cross referencing anitbody tests with "known" positive cases, we'll never know. We destroyed a global economy over one of the most haphazard and broken testing programs in medical history.


This anecdote from @AWP  isn't just an anecdote, I know this has happened in multiple places, but folks aren't talking about it or they get shouted down or worse. 


AWP said:


> This page alone, page 136 of the thread, is enough reason to disbelieve every possible figure, statistic, belief, hypothesis, and wild ass dream about CV-19.
> 
> Sharks, reinfection, mask viability, mutation, and China...on one page alone.
> 
> ...





Blizzard said:


> Elon Musk isn't my favorite person but a lot of people listen to him and he's crying foul on Covid tests:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327125840040169472



This was a PCR test, the vast majority of testing has moved to PCR testing.  So if testing accuracy of PCR samples is 50%? And you don't know which 50% is accurate, you're fucked on making any kind of projections.  But he's not the only one with questions.  For example, Nick Saban tested positive one day, then took five tests in the three days following and all were negative.  The PAC-12 is also dealing with False Positives amongst their athletes and it's crippling the schedule.



AWP said:


> Let's beat this horse again. Say it loud, say it proud.
> 
> The numbers are bullshit.
> 
> The second and third order effects will kill millions and destroy tens of millions of lives



When it comes to testing accuracy, I honestly am only falling back to serology studies which show that the infection rates are 10-15x higher than being reported from regular testing, because regular testing in at best inaccurate. 



ThunderHorse said:


> Article originally appeared in the NYT, but I found it outside of the paywall thanks to yahoo.  What if 'Herd Immunity' is Closer Than Scientists Thought?
> 
> Something that I've suspected, we're pretty much already there with Herd immunity given serology testing of anti-bodies. This is the second major article that I've read discussing the Herd immunity threshold being much lower that the touted numbers of 50-70%. Remember, vaccines are not 100%. This is also a viral disease, so that means you will just catch by doing normal bodily sustaining functions like breathing.
> 
> Is it serious? Certainly, but so is the flu.



The CDC is currently reporting almost 11 Million cases.  But if Serology testing in specific high density cities shows a much higher rate than what is being reported and it's actually on the higher end of some of the studies which is closer to 18-20x, then we're basically at Herd Immunity now. 

Never been a better time to look in the mirror (I did this morning) and work on your health.



GOTWA said:


> That's fair.
> 
> @Ooh-Rah it truly is unfortunate, but if the need for space is still there, why aren't we running field hospitals or covid treatment centers? We're coming up on a year of covid and there was an expectation many months ago for a fall flare up. Why are we still behind? State governments told Trump early on they were in charge then blamed him for their failures. Local governments are also culpable. Why are they still hunting for space with all the resources at their disposal?



Most states have reverted to normal capacity early in the summer as ED and ICU bed capacities became stable. People were shouting about the capacity in Florida...but when you compared the ED and ICU bed capacity rates to the previous summers in the past two years the numbers were normal which is why DeSantis basically went on a war footing against certain media agencies who were being fear mongers. 

Arizona has a lot of surge capacity that was designed going back to the 80s and we've kept up with that as the population has grown, but we've reverted to standard capacity as there is limited need for that surge capacity.  The vast majority of people testing positive here are asymptomatic.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 16, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> That's fair.
> 
> @Ooh-Rah it truly is unfortunate, but if the need for space is still there, why aren't we running field hospitals or covid treatment centers? We're coming up on a year of covid and there was an expectation many months ago for a fall flare up. Why are we still behind? State governments told Trump early on they were in charge then blamed him for their failures. Local governments are also culpable. Why are they still hunting for space with all the resources at their disposal?


To add to this, I'll tell you it's more than space.  We've known since Day 1, that long term care facilities and elderly were high risk.  In fact, most deaths occur at  long term care facilities.  These should be the most "hardened" facilities in terms of their approach in dealing with the virus.  

Yet, we're again seeing an a rise in cases there. How can these be? Ex. I have an extended family member in a facility that tested positive a couple months ago after a nurse tested positive; family member was asymptomatic and never presented - negative now. They had no cases prior to that nurses positive return. Case counts there sat idle until a week or so ago.  They know have 17 residents test positive.  If we can't protect/control this in the most vulnerable populations, how can we expect more broadly? It's seems to be an unreasonable expectation.  It seems there is more to understand about how the virus and spread and current mandates are not effective.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> To add to this, I'll tell you it's more than space.  We've known since Day 1, that long term care facilities and elderly were high risk.  In fact, most deaths occur at  long term care facilities.  These should be the most "hardened" facilities in terms of their approach in dealing with the virus.
> 
> Yet, we're again seeing an a rise in cases there. How can these be? Ex. I have an extended family member in a facility that tested positive a couple months ago after a nurse tested positive; family member was asymptomatic and never presented - negative now. They had no cases prior to that nurses positive return. Case counts there sat idle until a week or so ago.  They know have 17 residents test positive.  If we can't protect/control this in the most vulnerable populations, how can we expect more broadly? It's seems to be an unreasonable expectation.  It seems there is more to understand about how the virus and spread and current mandates are not effective.



Whenever I hear about this it boggles my mind.  The fact that governors forced nursing homes to take back highly contagious patients shows that those dudes are incompetent assholes (looking at your Cuomo).  The retirement home my grandparents used to live in has a nursing home/convalescent center that is separated from everything else.  They also have a massive assisted living complex.  I can tell you that place has been locked down hard core since March, my sister normally volunteers there and hasn't been back since March.  They haven't taken an infected patient back into their care since they instituted their protocols.  Depending on the locale, many of these facilities are very well versed in quarantine procedures and locking down their facilities, the only thing that can fuck them up? The Government.  Over the years when my grandmother was in assisted living/convalescent section of that nursing home I'd watch them lockdown when multiple patients got the flu, or scabies, or any variety of weird things that has massive adverse effects upon that population.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 16, 2020)

BTW, second vaccine manufacturer, Moderna, shows promising results - 94.5% effective:
2nd virus vaccine shows overwhelming success in U.S. tests

Russia also says they have a potential vaccine at 92%, which I'm sure is correct because they probably stole it from us.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 16, 2020)

Justice Alito weighs on the restrictions that are being imposed and I imagine his comments serve as perhaps as sort of a shot across the bow towards anyone suggesting broader national lockdowns:
Justice Alito unloads on coronavirus restrictions in Federalist Society speech - Alpha News

For those willing to bring forward challenges, perhaps it provides some insight as to how the courts view all this governing by executive order; it's a huge concern of mine.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 16, 2020)

I'm told these are the co-morbitity issues associated with COVID according to the Intl Journal Infectious Diseases.  I haven't fact-checked them, but I have no reason to believe they are not accurate: 

42% obesity
Hypertension 40%
Diabetes 17%
Respiratory 8%


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

Log onto twitter today, I guess the state of Washington is now in a hard lockdown [?] again or some such.  A work friend who lives in Washington that is post-woke, well she woke.  She's tweeting about how everyone shouldn't have a social life.  When during parts of the "lockdown" in April and May she was renting AirBnB's for weekend trips with friends. 

Hypocrites.

___________________

ETA1: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328450929214021633
le sigh


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 16, 2020)

Imagine that, the world's most woke leader talking about Global Reset.

WATCH: Trudeau tells UN that pandemic is opportunity for global 'reset'


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Imagine that, the world's most woke leader talking about Global Reset.
> 
> WATCH: Trudeau tells UN that pandemic is opportunity for global 'reset'


What does that even mean?  We could just use some Jewish Law concepts like cancelling debt every seven years.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What does that even mean?  We could just use some Jewish Law concepts like cancelling debt every seven years.



We're expecting some sort of universal basic income soon and he's been doubling down on gun legislation. So expect similar shit every where.


----------



## Florida173 (Nov 16, 2020)

There's no such thing as debt cancellation; it's just moving the debt over to another group of people.


----------



## medicchick (Nov 16, 2020)

And another 2 week "freeze" in Oregon...but only gyms, entertainment venues (museums, zoos and the the like) are closed and gatherings of no more then 6. Everything else is open including restaurants (takeout only) and we can all get haircuts still.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2020)

Lockdown cause panic and shortages...apparently Inslee is the most fucktarded person ever.  Because Seattle ain't got no TP. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328507283920195586


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 16, 2020)

I live in Washington. Inslee is a very, very bad governor. He should not be re-elected, and he just was.

I will never live in Washington again, for any reason. Also, keep in mind, if that video is from Seattle, proper- that store is empty because they're all the woke people we all agree are idiots.


Here in pretty much completely normal Graham, Washington, our stores are fine. It's a cold, rainy Washington night. If you didn't have Twitter, you wouldn't know that there's a lockdown of epic proportions coming.

ETA- And I am sure that Regular Joe American is filming this video with their (depending on the season) $1500-$2500 LV Handbag... The lesson as always- looks like X place sucks. You don't have to live there. you also don't have to post about not living there and hating it.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Lockdown cause panic and shortages...apparently Inslee is the most fucktarded person ever.  Because Seattle ain't got no TP.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328507283920195586



Looks like the store shelves in the NEX at Pearl Harbor during the last lockdown panic-buy session.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Lockdown cause panic and shortages...apparently Inslee is the most fucktarded person ever.  Because Seattle ain't got no TP.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328507283920195586


Yep, wait until they start making roads instate or other states to resupply on goods (like last time). It'd be great if they could keep that madness on the coasts and in their own neighborhoods.

Personally, I think we need to wall off Seattle and Portland. Build that wall!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 17, 2020)

So at least four Sheriff's in New York will not be enforcing Cuomo's lockdowns. 

Three more New York sheriffs say they won’t enforce Cuomo’s Thanksgiving limit


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 17, 2020)

God Emperor Newsom: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328436518118047744


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 17, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> God Emperor Newsom:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328436518118047744


----------



## Jaknight (Nov 17, 2020)

Wanna know something strange Both my roommates got Covid they had a cough and fever and body aches but nothing as bad as some people got. Yet I didn’t get Covid despite living in the same house. I tested 3 x each time was negative


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 17, 2020)

Not looking good for Christmas break.  Might be spending Christmas with an entirely different group of people than I expected.  #lockdown?


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 18, 2020)

I don't know anything about this guy, the website, or the validity of his claims but I'm posting this as another data point; simply a viewpoint potentially worth exploring more.  I will say, it tends to fall much to close to the conspiracy theory side of things for my tastes but that doesn't mean there aren't truths to it:

Former Chief Science Officer for Pfizer Says "Second Wave" Faked on False-Positive COVID Tests, "Pandemic is Over" | HubPages


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 18, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't know anything about this guy, the website, or the validity of his claims but I'm posting this as another data point; simply a viewpoint potentially worth exploring more.  I will say, it tends to fall much to close to the conspiracy theory side of things for my tastes but that doesn't mean there aren't truths to it:
> 
> Former Chief Science Officer for Pfizer Says "Second Wave" Faked on False-Positive COVID Tests, "Pandemic is Over" | HubPages



Interesting.  What I did find interesting are all the graphs being shared for various states when Mask Mandates went into effect and there wasn't a real reduction in cases.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 18, 2020)

GOTWA said:


>



This Newsom??

Photos emerge of Newsom inside posh restaurant amid coronavirus spikes


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 18, 2020)

Man who died after falling from a 10 ft ladder was actually killed by COVID-19: doctors

Guy falls off a roof and dies.  

Croatian Medical Examiner: No, he die of COVID


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 18, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Man who died after falling from a 10 ft ladder was actually killed by COVID-19: doctors
> 
> Guy falls off a roof and dies.
> 
> Croatian Medical Examiner: No, he die of COVID


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 18, 2020)

Dear Ticket Master -

Please suck my nutz.

How Ticketmaster Plans to Check Your Vaccine Status for Concerts: Exclusive


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 19, 2020)

Seeing what other states and cities are doing and how they're handling their respective situations have given me a new found appreciation for living in BFE (5k population). People haven't been preaching doomsday scenarios, taking 6 packages of toilet paper, or largely being cunts about the situation and instead just being supportive of each other. You wouldn't even realize there was a global pandemic going on if it wasn't for people wearing masks.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 19, 2020)

Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.

Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.
> 
> Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?


It's asinine. They've learned nothing since last April.  The same dipshits supporting lockdowns are the ones hoarding toiletpaper again.

It's absolutely comical to think a 4 week shutdown will have any meaningful impact on the virus.  The governor has completely mismanaged this reaponse.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.
> 
> Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?


No, but I'm going house shopping tomorrow.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 19, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Seeing what other states and cities are doing and how they're handling their respective situations have given me a new found appreciation for living in BFE (5k population). People haven't been preaching doomsday scenarios, taking 6 packages of toilet paper, or largely being cunts about the situation and instead just being supportive of each other. You wouldn't even realize there was a global pandemic going on if it wasn't for people wearing masks.



Since the all started I've been in the eastern part of the state at the coast and in the western part of the state near the mountains. Both areas are fairly rural, and it's the same way, no one really cares. Sure, businesses have signs up about wearing masks, but a lot of the business workers aren't even wearing them.  It's just not as big a deal as it is in the cities.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.
> 
> Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?



Your governor is a major asshole for a variety of reasons. This will kill your economy.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Your governor is a major asshole for a variety of reasons. This will kill your economy.


Dude, I am just amazed at how easily this populace submits. He did this with the swipe of a pen quoting “emergency powers“.

No debate, no checks and balances, his whim. The CEO of Lifetime Fitness which is based in Minnesota is losing his mind and has launched a campaign to keep workout facilities open.  As he said, “we just got our gyms open again, and now you want me to lay off 4000 people weeks before Christmas?”


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 19, 2020)

More fuel for the masking fire:
Landmark Danish study shows face masks have no significant effect | The Spectator


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Dude, I am just amazed at how easily this populace submits. He did this with the swipe of a pen quoting “emergency powers“.
> 
> No debate, no checks and balances, his whim. The CEO of Lifetime Fitness which is based in Minnesota is losing his mind and has launched a campaign to keep workout facilities open.  As he said, “we just got our gyms open again, and now you want me to lay off 4000 people weeks before Christmas?”


It's really a conversation that needs to be had with local business owners to defy closing. It's one thing if most people submit, but you can't fight everyone if they all refuse.

On one hand people need to see the consequences of their voting decisions, but a lot of people will also pay the price for it. With Trump essentially out, I feel like a lot of Blue governors might feel empowered to enact ludicrous changes with the potential of, we'll call it, presidential protection. I believe that's when you'll see the biggest changes in left leaning individuals to defy local governmental orders. It's one thing to fall in line because Trump is bad, but I don't think they can keep up the charade once he's out. Newsome and Cuomo will likely be the first to experience it. Even MSNBC hit Cuomo on his outburst yesterday.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/andrew-cuomo-shouts-reporters-denies-nyc-schools-closing

The governor's hostile exchange with reporters sparked heavy backlash on social media. 

"For someone who presided over so many deaths, especially so many avoidable deaths in nursing homes!, Governor Cuomo should perhaps be a little less overconfident, little less mocking, and a little less aggressive in Covid (!) briefings with the media," MSNBC analyst Mehdi Hasan reacted.

"That’s some Trumpian treatment of a reporter asking a legitimate and fair question, @NYGovCuomo," Politico reporter Andrew Disiderio said.


----------



## Dame (Nov 19, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.
> 
> Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?


So is that your Secret Santa wish list? 

Asking for a friend.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

The amount of freedom that we as a people gave up during this thing scares me.  The continuum of Freedom for Security exists.  But we received no security in return for the Freedom we gave up.  I can tell you that 30 more days of shutdown will kill bar accounts.  Sure there will be the ones with significant backing that hold on, but so many people will succumb to the mental health pressures that this shit is creating. 

I would state quite clearly if you had a nationwide lockdown like some of Biden's quacks are suggesting we'd be fucked sideways, and maybe that would wake everyone up to vote a different way, but I doubt that.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Nov 19, 2020)

We have restaurants going out of business here. In one case where I live, a restaurant just closed and the city announced a liquor store will take its place. What does that tell you?

The owner of Lifetime brings up an excellent point regarding lay offs and Christmas.  Talk about adding to mental health issues, suicide, drug abuse, etc. No one pushing for lockdowns wants to address that though. I guess it’s ok if you lose everything as long as you don’t die from the virus.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 19, 2020)

This might be a far thought, but maybe the left is pushing this thing in a way to force future dependency. After all, politicians make decisions for the future vote.


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 19, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> This might be a far thought, but maybe the left is pushing this thing in a way to force future dependency. After all, politicians make decisions for the future vote.


This has been talked about since the beginning


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 19, 2020)

OK, I try not to post a link and run without some comment but I just don't really have words for this one.  

Ladies and gentlemen, the representative from NY:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329476792571351047


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 19, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> OK, I try not to post a link and run without some comment but I just don't really have words for this one.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, the representative from NY:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329476792571351047


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

Could be worse...could live in Australia.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328946386071654408


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 19, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> OK, I try not to post a link and run without some comment but I just don't really have words for this one.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, the representative from NY:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329476792571351047



I bet there's a 'vote for us' to follow.



ThunderHorse said:


> Could be worse...could live in Australia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328946386071654408



Sounds a lot like prison.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

So Whitmer continues to defy the Michigan Supreme court.  Every time they overturn her emergency order she issues a new one. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329519086477451270


----------



## RustyShackleford (Nov 19, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I bet there's a 'vote for us' to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds a lot like prison.


Home detention. Next they’ll put GPS monitors on violators.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 19, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Home detention. Next they’ll put GPS monitors on violators.



I'd put it on my Jack Russell.  It would entertaining.  How fucking draconian.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Since the all started I've been in the eastern part of the state at the coast and in the western part of the state near the mountains. Both areas are fairly rural, and it's the same way, no one really cares. Sure, businesses have signs up about wearing masks, but a lot of the business workers aren't even wearing them.  It's just not as big a deal as it is in the cities.



This is so true. If I leave the city, the rest of the county doesn't give two shits.

Oh, and our county has banned all indoor gatherings unless everyone lives in same household. But, get this, restaurants can still be open at 25% capacity; church services are good to go; gyms can be open at 50% capacity. 

Really they just don't want you to gather with family over the holidays. Good luck getting the police to enforce that one. Drunk people and hunting season. That will end well 🙄


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Home detention. Next they’ll put GPS monitors on violators.


We're all gonna be sent to a work camp err a shaft mine.



Kaldak said:


> Really they just don't want you to gather with family over the holidays. Good luck getting the police to enforce that one. Drunk people and hunting season. That will end well 🙄



All of these stupid extensions of power only put Law Enforcement lives at risk.  Law Enforcement enforcing these asinine and draconian measures lost them support amongst the populace...I bet you have folks who support defunding the police because people have been assaulted by police and had their businesses shut down by agencies that lacked balls.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Could be worse...could live in Australia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328946386071654408



Come on Australia, what the hell??


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 19, 2020)

It's not Australia it's one state in Australia. They have a federation of states much like yours.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 19, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's not Australia it's one state in Australia. They have a federation of states much like yours.


So what you are saying is....

You have a ‘Minnesota” in Australia going draconian on the bit, but also might have a “S. Dakota” which is doing the “let it ride” strategy?


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 19, 2020)

Yeah pretty much.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 19, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329549279967334401
Dude, I can tell you that 90% of your citizens and including you will violate your order. Except the only one that needs go to jail is you. 

Sorry Newsom, but I'm going to see my parents for Thanksgiving, EAD.


----------



## Dame (Nov 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329549279967334401
> Dude, I can tell you that 90% of your citizens and including you will violate your order. Except the only one that needs go to jail is you.
> 
> Sorry Newsom, but I'm going to see my parents for Thanksgiving, EAD.


I wish I could see mine. But this whole thing has them scared and hunkering down again. They are not even going to my brother's house in the same county.


----------



## racing_kitty (Nov 19, 2020)

Half of my family in the local area (3 of 6) has had the cooties by now. The other half would probably have to do tantric breathing with a covid patient for several days before they actually contract the disease. We’re getting together, eschewing the turkey and trappings (just like we always do) in favor of some themed dinner and drinks, and expressing gratitude that we still aren’t dead yet.


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> We're all gonna be sent to a work camp err a shaft mine.


Hmmm...I wonder if we have a mine shaft gap...?


----------



## Dame (Nov 19, 2020)

racing_kitty said:


> Half of my family in the local area (3 of 6) has had the cooties by now. The other half would probably have to do tantric breathing with a covid patient for several days before they actually contract the disease. We’re getting together, eschewing the turkey and trappings (just like we always do) in favor of some themed dinner and drinks, and expressing gratitude that we still aren’t dead yet.


I'll be keeping my own tradition of turkey enchiladas.


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 19, 2020)

Dame said:


> I'll be keeping my own tradition of turkey enchiladas.


Tacos...


----------



## Dame (Nov 19, 2020)

Or changing it slightly to tacos.


----------



## Marine0311 (Nov 20, 2020)

This may have been asked but is COVID 19 man made or did it come from nature?


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 20, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> This may have been asked but is COVID 19 man made or did it come from nature?



I haven't seen conclusive evidence of either, and we may never know.  If I were forced to make an assessment, based on what I've seen so far in the news I would go with a natural event that was compounded by human error.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 20, 2020)

Today I hit the Covid wall, if I see one more business use Covid as an excuse for shitty service or slow service, I may end up on the bell tower.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> This may have been asked but is COVID 19 man made or did it come from nature?



I have no idea.  All I know is that the Chinese used the Cover of Darkness, err Cover of COVID to imprison millions of Uyghurs and completely disassemble the one country two-systems [of government] of Hong Kong and the Mainland.

They also completely failed to contain this thing.  I know we're giving COVID a November birthdate, but given how dense their cities are and how unkempt their markets are.  I suspect this thing was raging last summer.  Although they lied a shit ton about SARS-COV-1, they contained it at the speed of WARP-5 compared to SARS-COV-2.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 20, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> This may have been asked but is COVID 19 man made or did it come from nature?



Yes.

This strain of coronavirus has been identified in nature (in bats) and has been identified as a potential emerging disease of which to take interest.  Also, there is some speculation based on "evidence" that it was engineered in the big bio lab in Wuhan, and this newly modified strain is what is actually out there.

Attached is an article from a clinical microbiology journal regarding the potential for this virus to be a problem.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

This is quite rich from Cuomo...

Cuomo blasts police for saying they won't enforce Thanksgiving gathering limits

Also, bravo to Orange (CA) and Riverside County Sheriffs for not doing calls for service for masks or large gatherings if that is the only violation. Some smart elected officials right there.





__ https://www.facebook.com/RCSD.Official/posts/4092339990783144
			








__ https://www.facebook.com/OCSheriff/photos/a.94687544677/10158282831899678


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 20, 2020)

I have spoke to local LE, if our town/county/state goes full retard with it, they won't enforce.  Hell, they are still under the original March procedures of triaging calls and only physically responding to certain things.


----------



## Marine0311 (Nov 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Devildoc said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.
> ...




Thank you I will try to read this.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 20, 2020)

Marine0311 said:


> Thank you I will try to read this.



It is a long, boring as hell read.  The intro and page 683 (not 683 pages, it is a journal article and those are the reference pages in the volume) are the down-and-dirty.


----------



## LeadSled1 (Nov 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So Whitmer continues to defy the Michigan Supreme court.  Every time they overturn her emergency order she issues a new one.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329519086477451270


That picture reminds me of the Fury Road bad guy.


----------



## LeadSled1 (Nov 20, 2020)

Also


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 20, 2020)

Read this comment today and laughed until I thought about it and realized it may actually be true:
"Fact: If the CDC came out tomorrow and said COVID-19 could be stopped by wearing a ball gag and shoving a stick up your ass, liberal sheep would rush to comply."


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 20, 2020)

COVID remains a, um, _emotionally charged_ topic.  I had posted about it on another forum, and this was a PM I got:



			
				Red the Monkey said:
			
		

> Oh shut the **** up. Why don’t you tell everybody how you’re going to take the country back you ****ing moron.You seem like you’re whiny cunt too. Let me guess you’re in the medical profession as well.



I had put up something really outrageous and controversial (not) about mRNA vs DNA vaccines


----------



## LeadSled1 (Nov 20, 2020)

Doc, we have been having that conversation on my local board. Lots of older guys there who are worried about pre-existing conditions and how this will fit in with the different vaccines. Way out of my league but the local doc is calming them down.

I swear I can hear that PM like Billy Butcher from The Boys is reading it out loud in my head.


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I have no idea.  All I know is that the Chinese used the Cover of Darkness, err Cover of COVID to imprison millions of Uyghurs and completely disassemble the one country two-systems [of government] of Hong Kong and the Mainland.
> 
> They also completely failed to contain this thing.  I know we're giving COVID a November birthdate, but given how dense their cities are and how unkempt their markets are.  I suspect this thing was raging last summer.  Although they lied a shit ton about SARS-COV-1, they contained it at the speed of WARP-5 compared to SARS-COV-2.



The Uigher issue was going to happen covid or not. It's not something that could just be put in place in a matter of months. It was already happening before that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> The Uigher issue was going to happen covid or not. It's not something that could just be put in place in a matter of months. It was already happening before that.


Generally probably the same with Hong Kong as well.  It's just interesting to see how things converge.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> COVID remains a, um, _emotionally charged_ topic.  I had posted about it on another forum, and this was a PM I got:
> 
> 
> 
> I had put up something really outrageous and controversial (not) about mRNA vs DNA vaccines




Still saying we need to take off all safety labels for a year and let the problem sort itself out.


----------



## Dame (Nov 20, 2020)

And here we have the Governor's daughter getting mighty pissy with all of Nevada. Just wow.
I guess she killed her Instagram account after this went viral in the state.



> Carley Sisolak who is the Director of Marketing & Community Relations for the Las Vegas Golden Knights, whose job will not be affected by the shutdowns, seems to be getting some inside information from her Dad. Only, she may be in some hot water for letting the cat out of the bag because her account is now marked private after the public caught wind of the Instagram post! Update: The Governor’s daughter has now completely deleted her Instagram account. I guess she didn’t want people seeing her do everything that she is demanding us serfs not to do – like eating out and going to places she says are NOT crucial!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

She seems to be really bad at the whole Marketing thing...


----------



## Brill (Nov 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> COVID remains a, um, _emotionally charged_ topic.  I had posted about it on another forum, and this was a PM I got:



I was mocking the irrational fear of fellow employees (yes, I know, I'm going to hell) on our network and their claims of “PTSD” that someone (note: someone...hypothetical straw man) would get from from being in an ICU on a ventilator by offering to have to have a therapy session to chat about trauma from war and COVID.  I wrote, in part, “There I was deep in the sniffles, temp 101, and on my last Kleenex...”.

I was accused by another employee of making inappropriate jokes about rape, sexual assault, and child abuse so Karen called the manager and I got in trouble.  Oh, by the way, I didn’t leave anything out. That is EXACTLY what happened.

I noted that I never wrote anything about rape, sexual assault, or abuse of any kind. Well, they’re upset cuz I personally attacked a fellow employee. I asked for the name of the employee who had COVID, was in ICU on a ventilator, and met with me for the hypothetical therapy session. Uh...So I pressed “Really, why are we talking about this?”  

“There were complaints.”

”That I‘m an asshole?”

”Yeah, kind of.”

”I think you’ve misunderstood them: they’re not complaining, they’re stating facts. Are we done?”

”Sign this.”


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

So wait, if Cuomo gets an Emmy, shouldn't the POTUS?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329868366983598081


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So wait, if Cuomo gets an Emmy, shouldn't the POTUS?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329868366983598081




There's the shit flavored cherry to top off 2020. The "hate" should be obvious.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 20, 2020)

lindy said:


> I was mocking the irrational fear of fellow employees (yes, I know, I'm going to hell) on our network and their claims of “PTSD” that someone (note: someone...hypothetical straw man) would get from from being in an ICU on a ventilator by offering to have to have a therapy session to chat about trauma from war and COVID.  I wrote, in part, “There I was deep in the sniffles, temp 101, and on my last Kleenex...”.
> 
> I was accused by another employee of making inappropriate jokes about rape, sexual assault, and child abuse so Karen called the manager and I got in trouble.  Oh, by the way, I didn’t leave anything out. That is EXACTLY what happened.
> 
> ...



Years ago, probably 15, I was forced to share an office for a short time with a bunch of social workers. I had a calendar, a Glock calendar part of some gun swag I got, and one of the social workers complained that I was promoting gun violence. 

I had a similar conversation with human resources.  

They wouldn't tell me who the complainant was, but I figured it out after a short period, and I was able to make her life so hard, which they were unable to trace back to me, they ended up leaving the department for a different job.  Don't.  Fuck.  With.  Me.


----------



## Brill (Nov 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Years ago, probably 15, I was forced to share an office for a short time with a bunch of social workers. I had a calendar, a Glock calendar part of some gun swag I got, and one of the social workers complained that I was promoting gun violence.
> 
> I had a similar conversation with human resources.
> 
> They wouldn't tell me who the complainant was, but I figured it out after a short period, and I was able to make her life so hard, which they were unable to trace back to me, they ended up leaving the department for a different job.  Don't.  Fuck.  With.  Me.



I seriously got in trouble for another one on the same topic: widespread irrational fear that unmasked employees may spread COVID to other employees, who may take it home and spread to their kids.My point was that it was not our organization’s responsibility to protect employees from death, either chronic American lifestyle choices or viral infections. Why do we not screen for cancer, heart disease, etc? WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN YOU HEARTLESS BASTARDS????

Apparently the last part was over the top because it was perceived as aggressive and mocking valid concerns of employees.

”So I‘m getting a negative counseling statement because I’m effective at accurately conveying and defending my position in writing?”

”Sign here.”

Shit.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 20, 2020)

lindy said:


> I seriously got in trouble for another one on the same topic: widespread irrational fear that unmasked employees may spread COVID to other employees, who may take it home and spread to their kids.My point was that it was not our organization’s responsibility to protect employees from death, either chronic American lifestyle choices or viral infections. Why do we not screen for cancer, heart disease, etc? WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN YOU HEARTLESS BASTARDS????
> 
> Apparently the last part was over the top because it was perceived as aggressive and mocking valid concerns of employees.
> 
> ...



Still making friends the world over ;)


----------



## Dame (Nov 20, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> They wouldn't tell me who the complainant was, but I figured it out after a short period, and I was able to make her life so hard, which they were unable to trace back to me, they ended up leaving the department for a different job.  Don't.  Fuck.  With.  Me.


OMG. BTDT. And yeah, motto was:  Don't.  Fuck.  With.  Me.


----------



## AWP (Nov 20, 2020)

I have a feeling @lindy's experiences will be mine once I leave the desert for corporate America.

"And anyone who believes xxxxxxx can go eat a dick."
"What did you just say?"
"I said I'm going to HR. Just...email them the paperwork."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Today the governor of Minnesota closed all restaurants, bars, and workout facilities for 30 days.
> 
> Here we go again. Anybody have any toilet paper I can borrow?



Who's doing the math for Walz?  Antifa? Ho Lee She Att

What you need to know about Minnesota's COVID-19 restrictions



> Anyone who "willfully" violates the order is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by up to *90* days in a jail or a fine of up to $1,000.


----------



## Brill (Nov 21, 2020)

AWP said:


> I have a feeling @lindy's experiences will be mine once I leave the desert for corporate America.
> 
> "And anyone who believes xxxxxxx can go eat a dick."
> "What did you just say?"
> "I said I'm going to HR. Just...email them the paperwork."




I started a virtual riot last month by writing “I do not support anti-racism.” Colleagues thought they found a self-proclaimed white supremacist in their midst and they lost their collective shit.  SysAdmins had to call a “ceasefire” because Karen overloaded the systems with complaints.

Diversity reps: “Hey, we need to talk. What‘s your office?”

”I’m in the field.”

”Where?”

”Columbus.”

(keyboard sounds...clickity click) “Yeah, well...Look, you need to be truthful here. I’m not seeing you assigned anywhere on Wright-Patterson AFB.”

“Columbus, JOHR-juh. I‘m on Ft Benning.”

”WHO is your supervisor?”

”Mr X. He’s in Florida.”

”WHO DO YOU REPORT TO EACH DAY?”

”Nobody. I’m the only XXXXXX employee within 250 miles.”

”Uh, we’ll get back to you.”

”Oh, I’m very confident of that.”


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 21, 2020)

“Hey Siri.  Every hour remind me to check the Covid thread for Lindy updates!”

“Hey Siri. Send a message to Mara thanking him for tracking Lindy down!”


----------



## Brill (Nov 21, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> “Hey Siri.  Every hour remind me to check the Covid thread for Lindy updates!”
> 
> “Hey Siri. Send a message to Mara thanking him for tracking Lindy down!”



STILL COVID related but I need to refresh my memory on Monday about another “incident”: topic was workplace  mask mandate and how masks akshually protect OTHERS.

I replied something along the lines of “that, the desire to protect others, is the same reason why I carry a gun”.  HO LEE PHUK.

More to follow...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 21, 2020)

Have to say, managing a woman who thinks she's been exposed by her long time esthetician who came into contact with someone who had COVID a week before was wild AF yesterday.  I guess we're waiting on the Esthetician's results but I was like...she had a head cold? Ok.  But you just told me she also had a "Cancer Peel" like two days before? Ok.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 21, 2020)

I'm so glad he's back.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 21, 2020)

Initially thought I'd be able to drive down for Thanksgiving but both where I live and mom is red biggest factor though is at work we've had 5 people come down with it in the past week and she's had 4 at hers. 

Looking like it'll be a Chinese take out Thanksgiving this year.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 21, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Initially thought I'd be able to drive down for Thanksgiving but both where I live and mom is red biggest factor though is at work we've had 5 people come down with it in the past week and she's had 4 at hers.
> 
> Looking like it'll be a Chinese take out Thanksgiving this year.


Deadwood is open though.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 21, 2020)

Ventura County Sheriff's Statement on Newson's new order. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/VenturaCountySheriff/photos/a.268318366534730/3952832061416657
			




San Bernardino County




__ https://www.facebook.com/sbcountysheriff/photos/a.683139731751837/3517336371665478
			




Los Angeles County (This Sheriff is being extremely ambiguous and politically crafty with his language)





__ https://www.facebook.com/LosAngelesCountySheriffsDepartment/posts/4134339103259638
			




But as of now that is every county Sheriff in Southern California stating they will not use patrol assets to enforce the public health order.


----------



## Brill (Nov 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Have to say, managing a woman who thinks she's been exposed by her long time esthetician...





ThunderHorse said:


> Have to say, managing a woman who thinks she's been exposed by her long time esthetician...


First time I read this, I thought the dude was hopping her up on the nitros then posting pics of her funny business on FansOnly or something.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 23, 2020)

Cause you can always trust the government or to abuse any power you give them.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 23, 2020)

I 100% support this woman.  

_“I’m not going to give up my liberties, I’m not going to teach my daughters to give up their liberties, and I want them to learn how to fight,” she said. “If I’m not that example — which is very hard for me — who else is _going to do it?”

Ellison’s office threatens single mom, business owner for defying governor’s shutdown order - Alpha News


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 23, 2020)

China... bar-coding everyone... what could go wrong?



> Hong Kong (CNN)Chinese President Xi Jinping is pushing for a global Covid-19 tracking system using QR codes, to help fast-track international travel and business during the coronavirus pandemic.


China's Xi Jinping is pushing for a global Covid QR code

The government actively tracking peoples' movements and their health statuses??  Nope, no potential for abuse there at all!


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I 100% support this woman.
> 
> _“I’m not going to give up my liberties, I’m not going to teach my daughters to give up their liberties, and I want them to learn how to fight,” she said. “If I’m not that example — which is very hard for me — who else is _going to do it?”
> 
> Ellison’s office threatens single mom, business owner for defying governor’s shutdown order - Alpha News


We just need a bunch of others to do the same. Good for her.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 23, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 23, 2020)

LAPD already bootlicking.  Why don't they treat rioters the same way?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330817269245435905


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Cause you can always trust the government or to abuse any power you give them.
> 
> View attachment 37062


Yeah, fuck the Governor, seriously.  I'm actually getting pissed with his antics.

As for his Thanksgiving directives:


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 23, 2020)

So God Emperor Newsom had a press conference today and I guess he was talking about how his kids were exposed by positive (guessing asymptomatic) CHP officer...what he failed to state during that entire time is that because he has that defund the popo schlong gerble jammed far up his glutius maxumimus is that it was their fucking protection detail.  Erstwhile he's out going to Dinner parties violating his own policies willy nilly.

Last week it was supposedly an exposure at School: Gov. Newsom’s child quarantined for possible virus exposure at school

But now we're blaming the California First Family's protection detail, but during his presser he made no mention of the fact that he had one...

COVID Exposure: Newsom Confirms 3 Children Exposed To Infected CHP Officer; Family In Quarantine

Dignitary Protection Section

________________

ETA: for all the medical people in the room.  A French study.  @Devildoc 

Covid-19 Mortality: A Matter of Vulnerability Among Nations Facing Limited Margins of Adaptation


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> LAPD already bootlicking.  Why don't they treat rioters the same way?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330817269245435905


Should report those police to the police for not wearing masks.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

The Newsom tab...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330993541267394560


----------



## Grunt (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The Newsom tab...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330993541267394560


There will always be "those gods" that are able to ascend above their edicts while us peasants must hear and obey at once.

Newsom is one of the biggest clowns of the Big Top we now know as our government....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

Seems Andrew Cuomo doesn't get it...he literally killed tens of thousands of Old People with his nursing home intake policy of COVID infected patients planned to put his 89 year old mom at risk.  

NY Gov. Cuomo cancels Thanksgiving plans with his mother after backlash


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Seems Andrew Cuomo doesn't get it...he literally killed tens of thousands of Old People with his nursing home intake policy of COVID infected patients planned to put his 89 year old mom at risk.
> 
> NY Gov. Cuomo cancels Thanksgiving plans with his mother after backlash


He leveled a fine against a Jewish temple for hosting a wedding, and is getting pushback because a birthday party for Dem donors and politicians apparently gets a pass.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 24, 2020)

In a game of one upmanship to prove who is the craziest, most overbearing governor, I give you the latest submission from Oregon:
Oregon Gov. Kate Brown urges people to call cops on COVID-19 rule breakers

Sadly, it's Oregon, so you know there are already plenty of takers.


----------



## Brill (Nov 24, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> In a game of one upmanship to prove who is the craziest, most overbearing governor, I give you the latest submission from Oregon:
> Oregon Gov. Kate Brown urges people to call cops on COVID-19 rule breakers
> 
> Sadly, it's Oregon, so you know there are already plenty of takers.


I thought the libs hated police?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

So, COVID testing companies and agencies are prime targets for Cyber Crime/Terrorism.

Embry Women's Health website attacked as COVID-19 tests surge in Arizona


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 24, 2020)

"for now"


For Now, US Troops Won't Be Required to Get New COVID-19 Vaccine​For Now, US Troops Won't Be Required to Get New COVID-19 Vaccine


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 24, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> "for now"


Not until the rest of the population is caught up on anthrax vaccinations...?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Not until the rest of the population is caught up on anthrax vaccinations...?


Small Pox too.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Small Pox too.


Thank God for that rash I had.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 24, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Not until the rest of the population is caught up on anthrax vaccinations...?



Exactly.  ;)


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 24, 2020)

So because Trudeau put all our money on the Chinese Army vaccine at first and only months later put order's in around the world; we're probably going to be last. 

Trudeau: Canadians won't be among the first to get vaccine


----------



## Dame (Nov 24, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So because Trudeau put all our money on the Chinese Army vaccine at first and only months later put order's in around the world; we're probably going to be last.
> 
> Trudeau: Canadians won't be among the first to get vaccine


Count your blessings. Canada will be the only survivors of this shit show.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Have to say, managing a woman who thinks she's been exposed by her long time esthetician who came into contact with someone who had COVID a week before was wild AF yesterday.  I guess we're waiting on the Esthetician's results but I was like...she had a head cold? Ok.  But you just told me she also had a "Cancer Peel" like two days before? Ok.



Update: She came into my home office stating "Oh Shit, Oh Shit".  Esthetician's test came back positive.  She's had an appointment for a test tomorrow since last week so she's going. 

And then when I came downstairs she was crying. My in-laws are in town to spend thanksgiving with us but they've been in the mountains fly-fishing all week. So the boss lady is very sad. And I'm up here encoding some work to send off.

So yeah if she got the rona, I definitely got the rona.


----------



## Andoni (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So the boss lady is very sad.


That sucks! I'm sorry to hear that. I was hoping esthetician lady was negative. 

That gif made me laugh. But I can't react with a laughing emoji 🤯 🤣 because it sucks if ya guys got it.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 24, 2020)

Local elected officials encouraging people to call cops on neighbors exceeding the limits of people and who are outside without masks. 

Local cops: yeah, no.....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

I know a screenshot was posted in the : thread...but it's REAL.





__ https://www.facebook.com/hvillenc/posts/170689954731872
			




Uh nevermind...I guess the real Hensersonville is a City not a town.


----------



## AWP (Nov 24, 2020)

We have lost our goddamn minds. This is some Lord of the Flies shit on a national (if not global) level.

What in the fuck.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> LAPD already bootlicking.  Why don't they treat rioters the same way?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330817269245435905


Bootlicking, eh? What do you mean?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Bootlicking, eh? What do you mean?



Serious answer, lockdowns are bullshit and police officers should not be assaulting and battering citizens into compliance.  Otherwise, next actual "mostly peaceful" riot needs cracked heads en masse and people not released at all.


----------



## Grunt (Nov 24, 2020)

Law Enforcement doesn't need to be involved in COVID matters in any way. Those aren't criminal issues and don't need to be made into one. Once it starts, it will never end.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Serious answer, lockdowns are bullshit and police officers should not be assaulting and battering citizens into compliance.  Otherwise, next actual "mostly peaceful" riot needs cracked heads en masse and people not released at all.


Ok. disagree but thanks for the clarification.

ETA- The "disagree" is because your position is shitty. The police should never do this, to anyone. The behavior in this video isn't shitty because it's applied unequally to "both sides"- the actions in this video aren't ok in America. Americans shouldn't be treated like this. 

You can keep polarizing things if you want, but your take isn't helping the overall discussion.


----------



## SpitfireV (Nov 24, 2020)

The one time I feel sorry for the LAPD. Called bootlickers by everyone these days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 24, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Ok. disagree but thanks for the clarification.
> 
> ETA- The "disagree" is because your position is shitty. The police should never do this, to anyone. The behavior in this video isn't shitty because it's applied unequally to "both sides"- the actions in this video aren't ok in America. Americans shouldn't be treated like this.
> 
> You can keep polarizing things if you want, but your take isn't helping the overall discussion.



So you agree that the LEOs in the video are awful and the department deserves to lose its ass in a lawsuit? See, common grown.

Also, lockdowns are bullshit.

ETA: I'm partially being sarcastic with the common ground bit, but also serious.

ETA2: I guess I could have used different language.  But the LAPD treated rioters, you know people committing an actual crime, more humanely than some sober dude on the street who just didn't want to go inside.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So you agree that the LEOs in the video are awful and the department deserves to lose its ass in a lawsuit? See, common grown.
> 
> Also, lockdowns are bullshit.
> 
> ...


No, I said ‘the police should never do this, to anyone.’ And I don’t know if they should lose a lawsuit. This is a simple case of unjustified used of force.

Law enforcement authorities shouldn’t use violence unnecessarily. I don’t think violence was necessary in the video we are referencing.

I get what your point is (the inequity of treatment and media bias that either promotes or suppresses promotion of examples of that treatment).


----------



## Brill (Nov 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I know a screenshot was posted in the : thread...but it's REAL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Monday I will be calling our security response to inform them there are several vehicles  parked outside of our HR building and suspect many people being inside.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 25, 2020)

looks like things are on an unfortunate uptick in the PACOM AOR:

US military reports more than 50 new coronavirus patients in Japan and South Korea


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 25, 2020)

I suppose you get what you vote for LA County!  

L.A. County ban on in-person dining to begin ahead of Thanksgiving amid spike in COVID-19 cases

Although this makes me very sad for the restaurant owners I know in my home town.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 25, 2020)

Sitting at in laws house earlier, emergency tones on phone go off, like amber alerts and such.

This one: COVID is spiking in the state, wear masks, wash hands, social distance.

Um, no fucking shit. Let's scare the useful idiot sheep further with end of days via state sponsored warnings. I'm sure these people won't go to the store, stocking up further on lunchables and shat paper.

Lol.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 25, 2020)

More rules for the but not for me shit.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/h...er-mayor-michael-hancock-travels-thanksgiving


----------



## Dame (Nov 25, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> More rules for the but not for me shit.
> 
> https://www.khou.com/article/news/h...er-mayor-michael-hancock-travels-thanksgiving


Bwahahaha! Page is now missing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 25, 2020)

Dame said:


> Bwahahaha! Page is now missing.



He "apologized" for going...

Denver mayor offers apology for Thanksgiving travel after urging residents to stay home


----------



## Brill (Nov 26, 2020)

Cuomo: religious services in my state are severely restricted in order to save the CHILDREN!!!!

SCOTUS: hold my double-martini



> Members of this Court are not public health experts, and we should respect the judgment of those with special exper- tise and responsibility in this area. But *even in a pandemic, the Constitution cannot be put away and forgotten.* The re- strictions at issue here, by effectively barring many from attending religious services, strike at the very heart of the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious liberty.



https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20a87_4g15.pdf


----------



## Steve1839 (Nov 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> He "apologized" for going...


He should have taken the governor with him and stayed away...


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 26, 2020)

MASKS ARE LAME.......


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 26, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> MASKS ARE LAME.......
> 
> View attachment 37149



I will see if I can find it, there's a pretty good video that shows the same kind of thing but with all the different kinds of masks. As we talked about way back in March, the surgical masks are garbage and aren't going to really protect anybody from anything, it's just a silly facade, and appearance of doing something noble.  

Some masks are better than others, some are worse than others, but with increasing data coming out suggesting that it is both airborne and droplet, anything short of n95 is suspect.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 26, 2020)

Serious question. Have our efforts to live sanitary lives, vaccinate, and all that other stuff, led to a rise in our susceptibility to illness?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 26, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Serious question. Have our efforts to live sanitary lives, vaccinate, and all that other stuff, led to a rise in our susceptibility to illness?



There is some efficacy to that argument.


----------



## Brill (Nov 26, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> ...the surgical masks are garbage and aren't going to really protect anybody from anything, it's just a silly facade, and appearance of doing something noble.
> 
> Some masks are better than others, some are worse than others, but with increasing data coming out suggesting that it is both airborne and droplet, anything short of n95 is suspect.



We employees in my org are PROHIBITED from expressing those same sentiments in writing on our internal platforms.

@GOTWA , I think many of the high risk are gone.  In NY, Cuomo put COVID positive patients in nursing homes and the virus spread like wildfire.  



The deaths per 100K in NY are more than twice as high as FL but there are way more elderly (aka high risk) in FL than NY.

U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 26, 2020)

So my sister, who's special needs and has a weaker immune system, had to get a test.  Nasal Swab.  She was told she won't have results for 3 to 5 days.
___________
Also, Cuomo and DeBlasio are so hilarious.  How the hell is this parade allowed to go forward?  Oh, never mind I know the answer!!!


----------



## Grunt (Nov 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So my sister, who's special needs and has a weaker immune system, had to get a test.  Nasal Swab.  She was told she won't have results for 3 to 5 days.


I certainly hope the very best of outcomes for her!


----------



## Dame (Nov 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So my sister, who's special needs and has a weaker immune system, had to get a test.  Nasal Swab.  She was told she won't have results for 3 to 5 days.
> ___________
> Also, Cuomo and DeBlasio are so hilarious.  How the hell is this parade allowed to go forward?  Oh, never mind I know the answer!!!


What do you mean HAD to get a test. Was she made to get one per some sort of royal decree in AZ? Cuz, don't make me come down there. You can't do that.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 26, 2020)

Dame said:


> What do you mean HAD to get a test. Was she made to get one per some sort of royal decree in AZ? Cuz, don't make me come down there. You can't do that.



She lives in the communist empire of California with my parents.


----------



## Dame (Nov 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> She lives in the communist empire of California with my parents.


Same question. Define HAD.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 26, 2020)

Restaurant owner stands up to the lockdown.  Police revoke his business licence, take over restaurant early in the morning, change the locks and arrest the owner.  

Police arrest owner of Toronto BBQ restaurant for defying COVID-19 lockdown


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 26, 2020)

I got tested the other day.  Results came back today - negative.

Mine was a saliva test.  I got tested as a result of friends that tested positive, very mild symptoms - occasional cough. I didn't think I had it but kind of hoped it  would've come back positive so I could just push forward.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 26, 2020)

Dame said:


> Same question. Define HAD.


To be clear here, she was Prescribed a test by her physician.



RackMaster said:


> Restaurant owner stands up to the lockdown.  Police revoke his business licence, take over restaurant early in the morning, change the locks and arrest the owner.
> 
> Police arrest owner of Toronto BBQ restaurant for defying COVID-19 lockdown



Is there any kind of provincial relief scheme going on up there?  The reality is that if we remove folks ability to survive perhaps we should put Trudeau in a pup tent until it's over?


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 26, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Restaurant owner stands up to the lockdown.  Police revoke his business licence, take over restaurant early in the morning, change the locks and arrest the owner.
> 
> Police arrest owner of Toronto BBQ restaurant for defying COVID-19 lockdown


This kind of overreach is SOoooo incredibly wrong. I don't know much about Canadian laws but I sure hope that is something that can be challenged and overturned by the courts.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> To be clear here, she was Prescribed a test by her physician.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any kind of provincial relief scheme going on up there?  The reality is that if we remove folks ability to survive perhaps we should put Trudeau in a pup tent until it's over?



Nothing provincially but there is Federal small business loans in place but a business owner has to be near bankruptcy.  



Blizzard said:


> This kind of overreach is SOoooo incredibly wrong. I don't know much about Canadian laws but I sure hope that is something that can be challenged and overturned by the courts.



He had two very good lawyer's waiting with him, expecting arrest.  I don't think is close to being done.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 26, 2020)

@lindy I was more or less referring to the below article. We've seen plenty of news about COVID in North & South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, but what about Africa? Haven't seen much of that in the news. I feel like this article is part of a larger discussion, but in other like countries. 

Coronavirus: Are Indians more immune to Covid-19?


----------



## Brill (Nov 26, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> @lindy I was more or less referring to the below article. We've seen plenty of news about COVID in North & South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, but what about Africa? Haven't seen much of that in the news. I feel like this article is part of a larger discussion, but in other like countries.
> 
> Coronavirus: Are Indians more immune to Covid-19?



In Mail, locals pound Hydroxyclorquine like we do ibuprofen and assume it’s Africa-wide to fight malaria.  Correlation?


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 26, 2020)

lindy said:


> In Mail, locals pound Hydroxyclorquine like we do ibuprofen and assume it’s Africa-wide to fight malaria.  Correlation?



No. The news told me so.


----------



## Kraut783 (Nov 26, 2020)

WASHINGTON -- With coronavirus cases surging again nationwide, the Supreme Court barred New York from enforcing certain limits on attendance at churches and synagogues in areas designated as hard hit by the virus.

“Members of this Court are not public health experts, and we should respect the judgment of those with special expertise and responsibility in this area. But even in a pandemic, the Constitution cannot be put away and forgotten. The restrictions at issue here, by effectively barring many from attending religious services, strike at the very heart of the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious liberty,” the opinion said

High court blocks NY virus limits on houses of worship

IMHO...this was the right ruling. There are other ways to deal with this on the local level, Cumo needed to be put in his place....I hope some of these Governors are watching.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 26, 2020)

That should have been a 9-0 ruling.  Pretty clearly an equal protection case, but hey activist judges and judges that don't even want to get to the heart of the issue.  Normally happens all the time when the court sends cases back to appeals courts.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 26, 2020)

In January we get to blame Biden for all the new COVID deaths.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Nov 28, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Sitting at in laws house earlier, emergency tones on phone go off, like amber alerts and such.
> 
> This one: COVID is spiking in the state, wear masks, wash hands, social distance.
> 
> ...


I got the same alert on Wednesday while driving to my folks place in western PA and rolled my eyes.

My latest test was the nasal swab and negative like the others. Yay me.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 28, 2020)

Anti-lockdown protests in the UK being treated as if they were riots.  And thus they became disturbances.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332725450712502272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332700795075260418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332722810670764037
A mainstream source if you don't care for RT or grassroots media: Covid protest: Sixty arrests in London anti-lockdown protest


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 29, 2020)

These are hard times for the rich:



Let's not forgot about them!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2020)

So the suicide rate in Japan had been on a steady downward trend for the past few years.  Well not anymore.

In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020

Working from home finally taking its toll:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332862131792822274


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 29, 2020)

Not sure what to make of this article, need to do some more research into it.  There's plenty of crazies in academia, even at places as reputable as JH.  So, we'll see.  Until then, another data point for consideration:

Johns Hopkins academic: CDC data shows COVID hasn’t increased US death rate - Alpha News


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So the suicide rate in Japan had been on a steady downward trend for the past few years.  Well not anymore.
> 
> In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020
> 
> ...


You read the responses?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333050859727544323
I'm so confused.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> You read the responses?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333050859727544323
> I'm so confused.


Clearly an idiot. So she doesn't want an accurate representation of mental health after 9 months working from home so that we have effectively fraudulent data apparently.  That way you can have more pro-lockdown usurpation of individual rights.


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Clearly an idiot. So she doesn't want an accurate representation of mental health after 9 months working from home so that we have effectively fraudulent data apparently.  That way you can have more pro-lockdown usurpation of individual rights.



Man, at least try and read stuff first before deciding people are idiots.

This is an article from July about a social media post in April, which just asked generically about working from home, unrelated to everything else being shut down.

She literally mentions everything else you keep bringing up about mental health and these lockdowns as reasons why people's mental health might be bad, which have nothing to do with working from home.

How is she an idiot for pointing out that someone trying to imply "working from home is bad for your mental health" is completely ignoring the state of the world?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> Man, at least try and read stuff first before deciding people are idiots.
> 
> This is an article from July about a social media post in April, which just asked generically about working from home, unrelated to everything else being shut down.
> 
> ...


No, that's not what she said at all.  Her position is that because our mental health is currently so sapped that we shouldn't ask people about their mental health.  So you wouldn't have accurate data when things become less fraught.

The tweet is from today and I highly doubt she read it.  If anything the data would be worse because companies attempted return to office protocols and then backed off because of varying governments with poor policy. 

What would be an accurate representation of the data is to have asked this either monthly or quarterly. We've now been in this for three quarters of a year and likely will head into almost a whole year in some states and even longer in places like California where the varying governments are just destroying businesses with their restrictions.

Especially as we head into the dark period of the year that the data would only be worse.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 29, 2020)

Germany is preparing for the worst:

https://www.thelocal.de/20201125/ge...tg_gTOObhw4nDIm9OoNZAn6GMd4emEEMdT39bbfYlTHco


> Germany will extend its current coronavirus restrictions until early January unless there is a dramatic drop in infections, Chancellor Angela Merkel said Wednesday.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 29, 2020)

@Cookie_ @ThunderHorse @GOTWA 

I don't have Business Insider so I can't speak for what the article says, however the person responding to the tweet raises a fair question. When that article was published it was during the absolute height of the BLM protests and riots across the country, and Covid was on a rampage before it turned down around September (atleast it seemed to level out some to me). July was definitely a rough month in a very rough year so far.

My questions for it though, are the employees in a state where lockdowns were enforced unless for necessary travel? What was the reasoning behind saying that working from home was detrimental to their mental health? By that I mean is being forced at home 24/7 due to mandatory lockdown by the state causal to the decrease in mental health or a correlation of it?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @Cookie_ @ThunderHorse @GOTWA
> 
> I don't have Business Insider so I can't speak for what the article says, however the person responding to the tweet raises a fair question. When that article was published it was during the absolute height of the BLM protests and riots across the country, and Covid was on a rampage before it turned down around September (atleast it seemed to level out some to me). July was definitely a rough month in a very rough year so far.
> 
> My questions for it though, are the employees in a state where lockdowns were enforced unless for necessary travel? What was the reasoning behind saying that working from home was detrimental to their mental health? By that I mean is being forced at home 24/7 due to mandatory lockdown by the state causal to the decrease in mental health or a correlation of it?


Her response to the tweet was from today at 9:11AMEST


----------



## Locksteady (Nov 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> @Cookie_ @ThunderHorse @GOTWA
> 
> I don't have Business Insider so I can't speak for what the article says, however the person responding to the tweet raises a fair question. When that article was published it was during the absolute height of the BLM protests and riots across the country, and Covid was on a rampage before it turned down around September (atleast it seemed to level out some to me). July was definitely a rough month in a very rough year so far.
> 
> My questions for it though, are the employees in a state where lockdowns were enforced unless for necessary travel? What was the reasoning behind saying that working from home was detrimental to their mental health? By that I mean is being forced at home 24/7 due to mandatory lockdown by the state causal to the decrease in mental health or a correlation of it?


Her tweet was within the last 12 hours as far as I am reading, so I think it should be taken in today's context.

It looks like the reason they are talking past each other is because @ThunderHorse seems focused on revealing the exacerbating negative impact of telework on mental health during the pandemic, whereas @Cookie_ seems focused on asking how it makes the woman an 'idiot' to point out that the answers now won't give an accurate reflection of whether remote working in general harms mental health outside of the context of this pandemic and the accompanying extended strain from restrictions to daily face-to-face social interactions - especially since the question was non-specific and open-ended.

However, I'm not quite sure the survey was asking for a context-less answer to the question, because most people were never required to work from home before COVID-19, and that question would have been irrelevant to most people prior to March, since the vast majority of teleworkers then did so by preference.  Additionally, work at home during the pandemic has mostly been mandated alongside or after accompanying widespread restrictions on face-to-face interaction; determining whether mandatory remote work hurts mental health outside of the context of widespread restrictions on face-to-face interaction becomes next to impossible because that scenario hasn't presented itself on a wide scale.


----------



## SaintKP (Nov 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Her response to the tweet was from today at 9:11AMEST



I understand that, I guess I was trying to say is that if the survey was conducted today, would the same result occur or would it be different?




Locksteady said:


> However, I'm not quite sure the survey was asking for a context-less answer to the question, because most people were never required to work from home before COVID-19, and that question would have been irrelevant to most people prior to March, since the vast majority of teleworkers then did so by preference.  Additionally, work at home during the pandemic has mostly been mandated alongside or after accompanying widespread restrictions on face-to-face interaction; determining whether mandatory remote work hurts mental health outside of the context of widespread restrictions on face-to-face interaction becomes next to impossible because that scenario hasn't presented itself on a wide scale.



This is what I was after.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> I understand that, I guess I was trying to say is that if the survey was conducted today, would the same result occur or would it be different?



That's why I said they should conduct the survey amongst that sample again.  One snapshot is not enough data, so you need multiple snapshots.


----------



## AWP (Nov 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> She literally mentions everything else you keep bringing up about mental health and these lockdowns as reasons why people's mental health might be bad, which have nothing to do with working from home.





ThunderHorse said:


> Her position is that because our mental health is currently so sapped that we shouldn't ask people about their mental health.



it would be neat if we had universal health care that allowed for one's mental health...



Marauder06 said:


> Germany is preparing for the worst:
> 
> https://www.thelocal.de/20201125/ge...tg_gTOObhw4nDIm9OoNZAn6GMd4emEEMdT39bbfYlTHco



To be fair, if there's any nation that knows how to illegally confine an entire country, it is Germany.


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 30, 2020)

AWP said:


> To be fair, if there's any nation that knows how to illegally confine an entire country, it is Germany.



Hahaha. Ouch.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 30, 2020)

Call me skeptical. 

‘Absolutely remarkable’: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe COVID-19


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Call me skeptical.
> 
> ‘Absolutely remarkable’: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe COVID-19


You don't need to worry, the way I hear it, by the time Canada would get a vaccine, the rest of the world will either all be vaccinated or you'll have had the virus a couple times over.  Either way, they'll have worked through the kinks. 😁


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> That's why I said they should conduct the survey amongst that sample again.  One snapshot is not enough data, so you need multiple snapshots.



Literally stats 101.  

My employer put out a voluntary staff survey starting back in July (I think); every week they sent you the same survey.  I declined to participate.  But they are following trends to assess COVID impacts on mental and physical health over time.

I have not read the data or journal articles, but it doesn't take a PhD in public health or a psychiatrist to see that their are enormous strains on mental health as a result of COVID and its' sequalae.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Literally stats 101.
> 
> My employer put out a voluntary staff survey starting back in July (I think); every week they sent you the same survey.  I declined to participate.  But they are following trends to assess COVID impacts on mental and physical health over time.
> 
> I have not read the data or journal articles, but it doesn't take a PhD in public health or a psychiatrist to see that their are enormous strains on mental health as a result of COVID and its' sequalae.



People are wired to be active and be together.  Forcing people to separate and to not interact, especially to the degree that it affects livelihoods, is ruinous.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> People are wired to be active and be together.  Forcing people to separate and to not interact, especially to the degree that it affects livelihoods, is ruinous.



We homeschool, so we had zero change to our kids' school routine.  But, they don't see their friends nearly as much, museums have been closed, the zoo has been closed, the mall is a no-no, so even with school chugging along as normal, the rest of the social interaction has been upended, and they feel it.  So if WE can feel it, a family with traditionally-schooled kids who play sports or do clubs or activities, yeah, times a million.  Me, I am generally not a social guy (I'm introverted), but I have not seen the one or two guys I usually see, and if it was not for this forum and another to which I belong, man, I would be really isolated.


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> People are wired to be active and be together.  Forcing people to separate and to not interact, especially to the degree that it affects livelihoods, is ruinous.


C'mon man.  What you don't understand is that people are dying!  Lockdowns are necessary and, not only in your best interest, but it's for the common good.  Don't you understand what sacrifice means?!  Even Jesse knows:

Jesse Ventura slams non-mask wearers


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Nov 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> C'mon man.  What you don't understand is that people are dying!  Lockdowns are necessary and, not only in your best interest, but it's for the common good.  Don't you understand what sacrifice means?!  Even Jesse knows:
> 
> Jesse Ventura slams non-mask wearers
> 
> <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allow="autoplay; fullscreen" src="Anvato Universal Player"  width ="640" height="360"></iframe>


Are you being sincere or sarcastic?
(sincere question)


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Are you being sincere or sarcastic?
> (sincere question)


Very sarcastic...sorry if that wasn't clear 
(do you think I'd really tell @Marauder06 that he doesn't understand sacrifice?!  I may be a dipshit but I'm not that big a dipshit.)

Those are typical responses I've heard.  Along with kids just need to toughen up (in re: specific  concerns about mental health in children).


----------



## GOTWA (Nov 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> People are wired to be active and be together.  Forcing people to separate and to not interact, especially to the degree that it affects livelihoods, is ruinous.


I've lived a very sheltered and lonely life because of events that I let control me. It's what I've come to know. I can tell you that other people are not prepared to pull it off as well as I do, that's for sure.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So my sister, who's special needs and has a weaker immune system, had to get a test.  Nasal Swab.  She was told she won't have results for 3 to 5 days.



Spoke with my mother, my sister's results were negative and she has gotten over whatever she had.


----------



## Brill (Nov 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> C'mon man.  What you don't understand is that people are dying!  Lockdowns are necessary and, not only in your best interest, but it's for the common good.  Don't you understand what sacrifice means?!


I’m not kidding: this same “stuff” is seen daily in my org.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 30, 2020)

Geeze.

Surgeon General Jerome Adams to fight Hawaii citation for breaking COVID guidelines


----------



## Blizzard (Nov 30, 2020)

lindy said:


> I’m not kidding: this same “stuff” is seen daily in my org.


Believe it without question.


----------



## Dame (Nov 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Geeze.
> 
> Surgeon General Jerome Adams to fight Hawaii citation for breaking COVID guidelines


"Your mask protects me, and my mask protects you," he wrote in a series of tweets. "Masks keep our country open!"

Bullshit. We are not open. You just found that out the hard way.


----------



## Brill (Nov 30, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Believe it without question.



True story: employee posted that MD state popo would be conducting overt presence patrols intended to enforce Gov’s COVID mitigation measures.

A buddy replied that sounded like 1938 Germany.

I seriously think they DDOS’d our network with the collective outrage. Dipshits were  trying outdo each other with just how offended they were. A senior called a halt and my buddy got a verbal reprimand for unprofessional behavior (aka no promotion shot this year).


----------



## Brill (Nov 30, 2020)

These racist MFers!!!!!! There’s no Facebook-approved fact checked evidence that supports the LIE that COVID-19 came from Cuh-eye-NUH.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333539332330643456


----------



## Ranger Psych (Dec 1, 2020)

lindy said:


> True story: employee posted that MD state popo would be conducting overt presence patrols intended to enforce Gov’s COVID mitigation measures.
> 
> A buddy replied that sounded like 1938 Germany.
> 
> I seriously think they DDOS’d our network with the collective outrage. Dipshits were  trying outdo each other with just how offended they were. A senior called a halt and my buddy got a verbal reprimand for unprofessional behavior (aka no promotion shot this year).



A verbal reprimand for that.

I'll stick to running a wrecker truck, there's no fucking way I'll ever fit in in probably 99% of office/"Professional" environments.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 1, 2020)

lindy said:


> These racist MFers!!!!!! There’s no Facebook-approved fact checked evidence that supports the LIE that COVID-19 came from Cuh-eye-NUH.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333539332330643456


I've been saying this for months.  'Ol deductive reasoning!


----------



## Muppet (Dec 1, 2020)

I'm against lock downs. I'm certainly against nazi/stasi rat fucking government antics. I'm against continued government action in our lives. 

That said, just north of Philly where I'm a paramedic, every hospital in our county is on divert. That means, no beds, notta. Most of the beds are rona patients, older, from nursing homes. As recently as 2 hours ago, I had a rona pt, old lady that will probably die in a few hours. 

The nursing home we picked her up from had 19 on their rona ward, 4 died today.

Every ICU in the county has seen a spike in admissions. Younger folks are part of it but seem to be less acutely ill. Now, if these fucking idiots with mild symptoms would stop going to the ER, there might be beds. Our local trauma center has a 9 hour wait in triage waiting room.


----------



## AWP (Dec 1, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Now, if these fucking idiots with mild symptoms would stop going to the ER, there might be beds. Our local trauma center has a 9 hour wait in triage waiting room.



This is partially the media's fault for essentially pitching the message that to get the Rona is a guaranteed death sentence. Then, elements within the USG promoted that idea and here we are


----------



## CQB (Dec 1, 2020)

Farkn’ell, you blokes are going off like a tree full of galahs.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 1, 2020)

CQB said:


> Farkn’ell, you blokes are going off like a tree full of galahs.



Old mates here need a flagon and a dart.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 1, 2020)

CQB said:


> Farkn’ell, you blokes are going off like a tree full of galahs.





SpitfireV said:


> Old mates here need a flagon and a dart.


I think there's a Samuel L. Jackson meme for this...


----------



## Grunt (Dec 1, 2020)

There is a huge percentage of the population that runs to the hospital every time they get a sniffle or a low-grade fever. Those are many of the people inundating ER's now. They have been on antibiotics, steroids, and everything else to the point they believe they have to have them to survive. Throw COVID in there and it's a life-or-death situation to them.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 1, 2020)

Muppet said:


> I'm against lock downs. I'm certainly against nazi/stasi rat fucking government antics. I'm against continued government action in our lives.
> 
> That said, just north of Philly where I'm a paramedic, every hospital in our county is on divert. That means, no beds, notta. Most of the beds are rona patients, older, from nursing homes. As recently as 2 hours ago, I had a rona pt, old lady that will probably die in a few hours.
> 
> ...



Im still waiting for those field hospitals and the ARNG to fill in. But it must be such a problem all over the globe that the government doesn't feel it's necessary.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 1, 2020)

Just found out that a colleague, a RN at one of our hospitals, died from COVID last week.  She was 'older' (mid-60s?), no comorbidities.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 1, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> Im still waiting for those field hospitals and the ARNG to fill in. But it must be such a problem all over the globe that the government doesn't feel it's necessary.



First round, in Philly and surrounding counties, field hospitals were set up BY DMATS and guard. They were hardly used. In Philly, a large gym owned by Temple University that has its level 1 shock trauma/knife and gun club, opened it to rona. Only 1 pt was admitted there.

I know of at least 1 emergency doc, whom I respect that freely admitted, "I discharged covid pts to nursing homes instead of these surge facilities based on optics. What would it look like if I admitted granny to a military hospital cot?".

So, hundreds of docs did same, nursing homes became petri dishes for rona, many died, alot on my watch.

Fuck him, fuck these docs, fuck the state. These pts would have gotten better care with DMATS/Army medicine than in some fuck hole nursing home where the nurses that can't cut real nursing, work.

Plus, the counties need to request the assistance.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 1, 2020)

Muppet said:


> First round, in Philly and surrounding counties, field hospitals were set up BY DMATS and guard. They were hardly used. In Philly, a large gym owned by Temple University that has its level 1 shock trauma/knife and gun club, opened it to rona. Only 1 pt was admitted there.
> 
> I know of at least 1 emergency doc, whom I respect that freely admitted, "I discharged covid pts to nursing homes instead of these surge facilities based on optics. What would it look like if I admitted granny to a military hospital cot?".
> 
> ...


I want you to know I meant no disrespect from my response. It seriously boggles my mind. Optics? What the fuck are the optics of closing down an entire country, opening up, then complaining that people aren't following their guidelines when hospitals are overflowing? If people want me to take this thing seriously, then how about they worry about optics. 

It's truly unfortunate for the ones that were killed. I feel less so for the ones that put themselves in the position due to life choices. But that doesn't change the fact that states/feds are treating it half ass. Stimulus checks? How about field hospitals to cover the surge in admitted patients while the rest of the people get back to work. 

I know we say it's a complex problem, but could it really be that simple of an answer?


----------



## AWP (Dec 1, 2020)

Muppet said:


> So, hundreds of docs did same, nursing homes became petri dishes for rona, many died, alot on my watch.



State sponsored, mandated even, eugenics...


----------



## Brill (Dec 1, 2020)

AWP said:


> State sponsored, mandated even, eugenics...


I‘ll take 80s bands for $100 Alex.


----------



## CQB (Dec 1, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I think there's a Samuel L. Jackson meme for this...


Jeez, boss that’s all ya had ta say!


----------



## AWP (Dec 1, 2020)

lindy said:


> I‘ll take 80s bands for $100 Alex.



"Eugenics", not "Eurythmics."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 2, 2020)

So...Dr Birx goes: If you traveled for thanksgiving, you're probably infected, go take a test.  

CDC is like...hey fam, Isolation and Quarantine period are now reduced.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334170929384071169


----------



## Dame (Dec 2, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...Dr Birx goes: If you traveled for thanksgiving, you're probably infected, go take a test.


Well good. Have we hit herd immunity yet?


----------



## Brill (Dec 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> "Eugenics", not "Eurythmics."


Are you sure that’s not a book by L Ron Hubbard?


----------



## pardus (Dec 2, 2020)

AWP said:


> "Eugenics", not "Eurythmics."



Same same, white people acting weird and thinking it's perfectly normal.


----------



## racing_kitty (Dec 2, 2020)

Dame said:


> Well good. Have we hit herd immunity yet?


I’m not entirely sure they want us to hit herd immunity, if I were to judge the actions of those charged with leading us through this mess.


----------



## CQB (Dec 2, 2020)

Whilst not a cure this is C-19 related & may be of interest to the medicos here.

A COVID patient with sepsis was given a megadose of vitamin C. The change in him was 'remarkable'


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 2, 2020)

CQB said:


> Whilst not a cure this is C-19 related & may be of interest to the medicos here.
> 
> A COVID patient with sepsis was given a megadose of vitamin C. The change in him was 'remarkable'


So, just pop a couple of Airborne and call it good, huh?! 😁


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 2, 2020)

So this is the same Chinese company that Trudeau initially put all our vaccine hopes on.   

Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 2, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So this is the same Chinese company that Trudeau initially put all our vaccine hopes on.
> 
> Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies


“Roh roh, Raggy!”


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 2, 2020)

So far, the rules for the, but not for me folks are Democrats.  

Right when LA County closed restaurants, an LA County Supervisor went dining out. 

LA County Supervisor dines at restaurant hours after voting to ban outdoor dining

Last week the mayor of Austin told Austinites to stay home, while he was in Cabo San Lucas:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334221005607362568


----------



## digrar (Dec 3, 2020)

Grunt said:


> There is a huge percentage of the population that runs to the hospital every time they get a sniffle or a low-grade fever.



If you're paying that much for insurance, you want to use it every chance you get? Or if you get exposed to that much pharma advertising, you feel you need to get a pill for every sniffle? 

I don't know if reality matches perception, but we get told you guys have pharma advertising every advert break. I can't actually remember the last time I saw an over the counter paracetamol or antihistamine advert on TV, we do have them periodically, but it's not constant. Certainly nothing for medication that needs to be prescribed.


----------



## pardus (Dec 3, 2020)

digrar said:


> If you're paying that much for insurance, you want to use it every chance you get? Or if you get exposed to that much pharma advertising, you feel you need to get a pill for every sniffle?
> 
> I don't know if reality matches perception, but we get told you guys have pharma advertising every advert break. I can't actually remember the last time I saw an over the counter paracetamol or antihistamine advert on TV, we do have them periodically, but it's not constant. Certainly nothing for medication that needs to be prescribed.



The pharma advertising was the single biggest difference I noticed on TV when I first came to the US. It's weird and all pervasive.


----------



## pardus (Dec 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So...Dr Birx goes: If you traveled for thanksgiving, you're probably infected, go take a test.
> 
> CDC is like...hey fam, Isolation and Quarantine period are now reduced.
> 
> ...



That is misleading. The CDC recommended quarantine (not Isolation) is still 14 days. However if certain criteria are meet it is OK to cut it short within the bounds of those criteria. With the shortened times the authorities are accepting a risk that the person in question could still become positive and spread the disease within the 14 day window.
14 days is the standard at time of writing.


Persons can continue to be quarantined for 14 days without testing per existing recommendations. This option maximally reduces risk of post-quarantine transmission risk and is the strategy with the greatest collective experience at present.

These recommendations for quarantine options shorter than 14 days balance reduced burden against a small but non-zero risk of post-quarantine infection that is informed by new and emerging science.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 3, 2020)

digrar said:


> If you're paying that much for insurance, you want to use it every chance you get? Or if you get exposed to that much pharma advertising, you feel you need to get a pill for every sniffle?
> 
> I don't know if reality matches perception, but we get told you guys have pharma advertising every advert break. I can't actually remember the last time I saw an over the counter paracetamol or antihistamine advert on TV, we do have them periodically, but it's not constant. Certainly nothing for medication that needs to be prescribed.



The ads for medicine used to not be a thing until maybe 10 years ago +/- but the FCC deregulated that and you can find a fix for your incontinence, erectile dysfunction, eczema, and bipolar disorder all in a span of 2 minutes.  I am all about informed consumers, but it really changed how we treat patients because now providers have patients who say "I want XXXX medicine because I saw it on TV."

Regarding insurance and the ED, it's actually the uninsured without primary care who overwhelm the EDs for bullshit.  My insurance co-pay is $250 if I go to the ED, only 'waived' if I am admitted.


----------



## Dame (Dec 3, 2020)

digrar said:


> If you're paying that much for insurance, you want to use it every chance you get? Or if you get exposed to that much pharma advertising, you feel you need to get a pill for every sniffle?
> 
> I don't know if reality matches perception, but we get told you guys have pharma advertising every advert break. I can't actually remember the last time I saw an over the counter paracetamol or antihistamine advert on TV, we do have them periodically, but it's not constant. Certainly nothing for medication that needs to be prescribed.





Devildoc said:


> Regarding insurance and the ED, it's actually the uninsured without primary care who overwhelm the EDs for bullshit.  My insurance co-pay is $250 if I go to the ED, only 'waived' if I am admitted.


This ^^^.  If you want to really wind @Muppet up, just ask him about how they usually want the limo ride to the ER as well.

And yes. The ads are constant. Mute button FTW.

ETA: The best part of the ads are the stuff at the end where they must tell you side effects. "Side effects may include runny nose, nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, severe stomach pain, incontinence, impotence, and death. Ask your doctor if this medication is right for you."


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Dame said:


> This ^^^.  If you want to really wind @Muppet up, just ask him about how they usually want the limo ride to the ER as well.



One of the many reasons I left EMS was the burn-out not from sick people, trauma, etc., but stuff like this....being dispatched to "chest pain" when all it was was, someone waiting outside with a suitcase wanting a ride to the ED, who said they had "chest pain" because they knew (from previous experience) that it would get an ambulance coming emergency traffic (lights/siren).  

To my painful chagrin I experienced the same population on the other side when I was an ED nurse.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 3, 2020)

digrar said:


> If you're paying that much for insurance, you want to use it every chance you get? Or if you get exposed to that much pharma advertising, you feel you need to get a pill for every sniffle?
> 
> I don't know if reality matches perception, but we get told you guys have pharma advertising every advert break. I can't actually remember the last time I saw an over the counter paracetamol or antihistamine advert on TV, we do have them periodically, but it's not constant. Certainly nothing for medication that needs to be prescribed.



I want to say that 80% of the big pharma ads are for dick pills like Cialis and Viagra. I don't watch a lot of regular TV these days unless it's sportsball, and yeah you have at least one add or two in an hour for dick pills.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 3, 2020)

Most commercials are about pills for you to take and lawyers to sue the companies after you suffer their side-effects.

It's a revolving door....


----------



## CQB (Dec 3, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> So this is the same Chinese company that Trudeau initially put all our vaccine hopes on.
> 
> Chinese vaccine company executives worked in program now targeted by Western intelligence agencies


Steal, replicate, replace. Plus a change, plus a meme chose.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 3, 2020)

This dude needs to get voted out. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334575700477698050


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 3, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> This dude needs to get voted out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334575700477698050


Nah, I hope they double down.


----------



## CQB (Dec 3, 2020)

Sounds like Garcetti is on to something, as difficult as it is to comply.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 3, 2020)

I thought we canceled everything earlier? As in everything is now racist?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2020)

Fuck.

Sheriff: Woodbridge Elementary Student Dies By Suicide During Online Class


----------



## Grunt (Dec 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fuck.
> 
> Sheriff: Woodbridge Elementary Student Dies By Suicide During Online Class


That is truly sad. Kids aren't built to have to deal with the trash that the world is dishing out to them right now. They don't even get to be kids....


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 4, 2020)

Anyone not see this coming?

Biden says he plans to ask Americans to wear masks for his first 100 days in office


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 4, 2020)

Can ask all he wants.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2020)

Fighting on CNBC about things...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334881795951775744


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 4, 2020)

About us:

With scores of infected workers, Duke Health preps to vaccinate staff :: WRAL.com

I did get a kick out of the "special vaccination room", all it is, is an auditorium lol.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2020)

CDC urges universal mask use while indoors amid coronavirus surge

How do I say "Get Fucked" in a nice way?


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fighting on CNBC about things...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334881795951775744



I love Rick Santelli(sp?).



ThunderHorse said:


> CDC urges universal mask use while indoors amid coronavirus surge
> 
> How do I say "Get Fucked" in a nice way?



I tend to do it the way you worded it there. But @lindy has taught us HR disagrees.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 4, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> CDC urges universal mask use while indoors amid coronavirus surge
> 
> How do I say "Get Fucked" in a nice way?


If you're socially distanced from whoever you're communicating that to?

Don't wear a mask.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> CDC urges universal mask use while indoors amid coronavirus surge
> 
> How do I say "Get Fucked" in a nice way?


American history says throwing a tea party, w/ bird feathers, and a non-toxic adhesive, is the traditional way of letting others know you politely disagree with them. Could always just ignore them too.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 5, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fuck.
> 
> Sheriff: Woodbridge Elementary Student Dies By Suicide During Online Class


 that's terrible.  Thank goodness the other children online didn't see it happen.  I feel terrible for the sibling who found him.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 5, 2020)

The absurdity of the covid response by government officials is reaching a crescendo.

The double standards and complete lack of consistency in applying mandates is maddening to me.  Below is just the latest ex., though not local to me, I've seen very similar things.  This must change but unfortunately I don't see the situation improving with the Biden administration and stimulus packages are not the answer!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335027613820198914


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Dec 5, 2020)

JP with the FAX......"Lockdowns work"!!!!!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 5, 2020)

People seem to have forgotten


----------



## Dame (Dec 5, 2020)

I'm writing masks off as uniforms on my taxes for 2020. Can't go to work without one.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 6, 2020)

Gotta love elected Sheriffs!

Orange County sheriff says deputies won't enforce SoCal's new stay-at-home order​"Compliance with health orders is a matter of personal responsibility and not a matter of law enforcement,'' Barnes said in a statement. "The Orange County Sheriff's Department will remain consistent in our approach.

"Orange County Sheriff's deputies will not be dispatched to, or respond to, calls for service to enforce compliance with face coverings, social gatherings, or stay-at-home orders only."



Orange County sheriff says deputies won't enforce SoCal's new stay-at-home order


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 6, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> The absurdity of the covid response by government officials is reaching a crescendo.
> 
> The double standards and complete lack of consistency in applying mandates is maddening to me.  Below is just the latest ex., though not local to me, I've seen very similar things.  This must change but unfortunately I don't see the situation improving with the Biden administration and stimulus packages are not the answer!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335027613820198914



Now we're getting somewhere.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335668957819375622

But Small Business Owners need to do that Stacy Abrams plan thing.  Recruit and mobilize voters.  Make things difficult for elected officials through protests, they approve a permit that's bullshit?  Protest and throw tomatoes at attendees.  Hold them accountable, recall them.  Honestly, Gray Davis didn't need to be recalled when he was governor, but Newsome does.  Garcetti needs to be recalled as mayor.


----------



## SaintKP (Dec 6, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fuck.
> 
> Sheriff: Woodbridge Elementary Student Dies By Suicide During Online Class



Mental health will continue to be a little to non discussed topic. It feels horrible to say it, but this kid alone won't do anything especially considering how 2019 went and everyone immediately forgot about it.


----------



## Brill (Dec 7, 2020)

@ThunderHorse


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

SaintKP said:


> Mental health will continue to be a little to non discussed topic.



Ironically, I got an email at work this morning that goes like this:

"In 2020, did you ever want someone to ask, "How *ARE* you?"

We’re asking that now.

*Checking in with You – The 2020 Survey* is now open for all Duke Health staff and faculty.

It goes without saying that 2020 has been a year like no other. This survey seeks to find out how that’s affected us, by measuring the specific impact on our work, physical and emotional health, and overall sense of well-being. Your answers will allow Duke Health to better support us all by preserving what’s going well and adjusting what needs improving.

To keep things short, we’re focusing on two areas: diversity and inclusion, and your well-being since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. The survey does not take long, so please share your voice today...."

Survey follows.  My skeptical naiveté says they want to use the data for a study and to publish.  

In full disclosure my organization since March has been advocating taking PTO and taking care of family, and my boss still encourages us to work from home when we can, so they are trying.

All of that said, people are starting to wise-up that mental health is taking a HUGE pounding right up the ol' poop chute.


----------



## SaintKP (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In full disclosure my organization since March has been advocating taking PTO and taking care of family, and my boss still encourages us to work from home when we can, so they are trying.
> 
> All of that said, people are starting to wise-up that mental health is taking a HUGE pounding right up the ol' poop chute.



Glad to see that institutions are taking a hard look at it and at the very least are aware of what's going on, maybe this is the thing needed to bring mental health back into the public forum.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

I am now a certified (certifiable??) expert on the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Let me know if anyone has any questions.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am now a certified (certifiable??) expert on the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Let me know if anyone has any questions.



How long do they expect it to be effective?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> How long do they expect it to be effective?



Should last at least a year, pending additional studies of serial antibodies.  Boosters may be required based on those studies.


----------



## Dame (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am now a certified (certifiable??) expert on the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Let me know if anyone has any questions.


I heard @Muppet volunteered to be in the test group. How's that going?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

Dame said:


> I heard @Muppet volunteered to be in the test group. How's that going?



I have two co-workers who were in clinical trials; one believes she got it because she had the expected side effects after each shot; the other thinks she got the placebo because she felt nothing.

I told the former wouldn't it be funny if she got the placebo, but coincidentally got COVID around the same time....


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Should last at least a year, pending additional studies of serial antibodies.  Boosters may be required based on those studies.



Thank you.  It's likely the vaccine that I will be able to get but at this point, who knows.  Canada ordered from so many different companies, it's like vaccine roulette.  So far it looks like Pfizer and Moderna will be the first ones to be approved.

Canada's COVID vaccine tracker - Macleans.ca


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Thank you.  It's likely the vaccine that I will be able to get but at this point, who knows.  Canada ordered from so many different companies, it's like vaccine roulette.  So far it looks like Pfizer and Moderna will be the first ones to be approved.
> 
> Canada's COVID vaccine tracker - Macleans.ca



We are definitely getting Pfizer to start, as early as maybe mid-week next week.  Given the work I put into it I will be pissed yet unsurprised if they change directions.  I also know that the plan is to get them from all four companies as they get released, which will be an educational and compliance nightmare.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am now a certified (certifiable??) expert on the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Let me know if anyone has any questions.


What are the worst documented side effects of the vaccine, how common are they, and who is most susceptible to experiencing them?
What are the Pfizer mRNA-specific contraindications for taking the vaccine, if any? As in, beyond contraindications that apply to most vaccines?
What medical evidence exists to support an objection or outright refusal to taking the Pfizer mRNA vaccine?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> What are the worst documented side effects of the vaccine, how common are they, and who is most susceptible to experiencing them?
> What are the Pfizer mRNA-specific contraindications for taking the vaccine, if any? As in, beyond contraindications that apply to most vaccines?
> What medical evidence exists to support an objection or outright refusal to taking the Pfizer mRNA vaccine?



Side effects:  The most frequent adverse reactions in participants >16 YO were pain at the injection site (>80%), fatigue (>60%), headache (>50%), mylagia (>30%), chills (>30%), arthralgia (>20%, and fever (>10%); usually mild-to-moderate, resolving within "a few days" after injection.  No meaningful difference regarding first or second injection; symptoms somewhat milder after second.  No specific group got side effects worse than/better than any other group.

Contraindication:  Hypersensitivity to additives (mostly electrolytes)

Relative contraindication:  Postpone vaccination in those with acute febrile illness, anticoagulant therapy that would otherwise contradict an intramuscular injection, Women who are pregnant or may become pregnant within 2 months after second dose, and mothers who are breast-feeding.

No evidence to support refusal for medical reasons except as noted above.  FWIW, DNA vaccines may have been developed from cell lines of aborted fetuses, thus some people refuse those on moral grounds; mRNA vaccines do not.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Side effects:  The most frequent adverse reactions in participants >16 YO were pain at the injection site (>80%), fatigue (>60%), headache (>50%), mylagia (>30%), chills (>30%), arthralgia (>20%, and fever (>10%); usually mild-to-moderate, resolving within "a few days" after injection.  No meaningful difference regarding first or second injection; symptoms somewhat milder after second.  No specific group got side effects worse than/better than any other group.
> 
> Contraindication:  Hypersensitivity to additives (mostly electrolytes)
> 
> ...


What a great and comprehensive response.  Thank you for this!


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2020)

So this is going to take a long time if every delivery is enough for a little more than a 10th of percent of the population. 

Canada to get first Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine doses before end of December


----------



## medicchick (Dec 7, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Side effects:  The most frequent adverse reactions in participants >16 YO were pain at the injection site (>80%), fatigue (>60%), headache (>50%), mylagia (>30%), chills (>30%), arthralgia (>20%, and fever (>10%); usually mild-to-moderate, resolving within "a few days" after injection.  No meaningful difference regarding first or second injection; symptoms somewhat milder after second.  No specific group got side effects worse than/better than any other group.
> 
> Contraindication:  Hypersensitivity to additives (mostly electrolytes)
> 
> ...


Honestly those side effects don't sound any worse then most vaccines.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

medicchick said:


> Honestly those side effects don't sound any worse then most vaccines.



It's about as expected from any live attenuated virus, but in the case of the COVID vaccine the percent is higher than most (more than 60/100 get fatigue, 50/100 get headache...that's decently high).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 7, 2020)

Atlanta Schools have been closed since March.  But hey, let's let hollyweird film a movie.  

Spider-Man 3 Allowed to Film in Atlanta Schools Despite COVID Shutdown


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2020)

17% chance of fever in 18-55 age group. @Devildoc do you know if they have % for high grade fever?



> Nurse in Pfizer vaccine trial who worried she had COVID-19 after developing highest fever of her life at 105F says she can see 'wrong message going viral' if doctors don't warn of 'scary' side effects



Nurse in Pfizer's vaccine trial said friends believed she had COVID


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> 17% chance of fever in 18-55 age group. @Devildoc do you know if they have % for high grade fever?
> 
> 
> 
> Nurse in Pfizer's vaccine trial said friends believed she had COVID



High fever (>101.5) is pretty unusual, most fevers with the vaccine have been very low grade.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2020)

A pretty good read.   I didn't realize that Moderna had the vaccine developed so quickly, by Jan 13.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 7, 2020)

People of Akron making life uncomfortable for their elected officials after the latest lockdown mandates. 

Group protests after Akron City Council limits visitors allowed in private homes


----------



## CQB (Dec 8, 2020)

As of the start of this week we have 44 active cases nation wide, 29 hospitalized with none in IC. Community transmission is at zero or near zero. Total deaths in Oz are at 908 nationally. I think NZ has better figures.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 8, 2020)

Fuck. This is just awful. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336401996681777155
COVID-19 isolation drives Brunswick teenager to suicide


----------



## AWP (Dec 8, 2020)

Remember when Trump said we'd have a vaccine by the end of the year or sooner and was excoriated?


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 8, 2020)

AWP said:


> Remember when Trump said we'd have a vaccine by the end of the year or sooner and was excoriated?


Right? What a dumbass.  Instead, we'll have 2, possibly 3.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 8, 2020)

I'm curious how this one will play out. We'll see how California follows up with it.

New York lawmakers introduce bill to make Covid-19 vaccine MANDATORY. What about ‘my body, my choice’, critics wonder


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

For those of you who are data freaks or who need a little something to help getting to sleep, I am attaching the FDA briefing document entitled "Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting" dated for tomorrow (yes, you read that correctly).  It is all you want to know about the Pfizer vaccine and more.  49 pages of Pfizer vaccine goodness.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I am now a certified (certifiable??) expert on the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Let me know if anyone has any questions.


When does it cause your dick to fall off?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

Gunz said:


> When does it cause your dick to fall off?



Mine doubled in size.  It's now three inches.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 9, 2020)

If you have a history of allergic reactions, forget about the Pfizer vaccine. 

NHS told not to give Covid vaccine to those with history of allergic reactions


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> If you have a history of allergic reactions, forget about the Pfizer vaccine.
> 
> NHS told not to give Covid vaccine to those with history of allergic reactions



So, I have seen the data.  I HAVE the data.  The sole contraindication is "hypersensitivity"; i.e., an allergic reaction (applies to previous vaccines, as defined by anaphylaxis).  We can kinda tell who will (have an "allergic reaction") based on history, but no one has _any _history until their first time.  Also based on the numbers in the clinical trials, the 'n' is so small I do not know if it is really and truly an contraindication.  What, fewer than 10 out of >50,000?  And then, what's an "allergic reaction"?  Anaphylaxis?  Hives?  Sniffles?  For us, the contraindication would be anaphylaxis.

I see both sides.  Us, we'll probably tell people "if you had a reaction to any other vaccine, do not get the Pfizer vaccine."


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> So, I have seen the data.  I HAVE the data.  The sole contraindication is "hypersensitivity"; i.e., an allergic reaction (applies to previous vaccines, as defined by anaphylaxis).  We can kinda tell who will (have an "allergic reaction") based on history, but no one has _any _history until their first time.  Also based on the numbers in the clinical trials, the 'n' is so small I do not know if it is really and truly an contraindication.  What, fewer than 10 out of >50,000?  And then, what's an "allergic reaction"?  Anaphylaxis?  Hives?  Sniffles?  For us, the contraindication would be anaphylaxis.
> 
> I see both sides.  Us, we'll probably tell people "if you had a reaction to any other vaccine, do not get the Pfizer vaccine."



I should have used a rolling eye smiley but it's honestly nice to see something "negative" being reported.

Health Canada just approved the Pfizer vaccine but we're only getting 249,000 doses, maybe before the new year.  Then who knows how long before we get anything else.   I'll have to look for it but I read an article this morning, a mayor spoke out about how the majority of people in Ontario, won't have any vaccine until late 2021 or more likely 2022.

COVID-19 vaccine no quick fix: Mayor


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Mine doubled in size.  It's now three inches.



I'm volunteering 6 times then...... ..


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2020)

Wow.  Whole lot going on on this article.

Florida police raid home of former state Covid-19 data scientist


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2020)

Well here in AZ we have major piece of trash politicians.  I hope this guy gets kicked out by his electorate. 

Rep. Greg Stanton would really deny Arizonans COVID aid because Ducey won't mandate masks?


----------



## racing_kitty (Dec 9, 2020)

I hear that the vaccine sterilizes women. I don’t want to miss weeks of work for getting fixed surgically, so how many doses before I’m permanently immune to “baby rabies?” 🤣


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 9, 2020)

So we won't be able to go to the movies without proof of vaccination.  This is starting to get crazy.



> While Christine Elliott said the vaccine will not be mandatory in Ontario, things like travel and access to communal spaces like movie theatres could be restricted.



Ontarians could face restrictions if they refuse to get COVID-19 vaccine, health minister says


----------



## Gunz (Dec 9, 2020)

So Doc @Devildoc I’ve got it, @Kraut783 has it, @Bypass has had it...Once a person recovers are they immune and do they have to get the vaccine?

(and don’t lie about it making your dick bigger because we know that’s medical propaganda)


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

Gunz said:


> So Doc @Devildoc I’ve got it, @Kraut783 has it, @Bypass has had it...Once a person recovers are they immune and do they have to get the vaccine?



Yes, no maybe so.

I really hate to sound like an ass.  We do not know.  We do know that in all cases so far any conferred antibodies decrease over time.  We don't even know if the vaccine will be a one-time deal or require boosters, or if they need to reengineer an entirely new vaccine each year a la flu vaccine.  They are doing serial antibodies on people who had the vaccine in trials to figure that out.  We do not even know if getting the vaccine keeps you from spreading it (they are looking at that, too).  

What we do know:  after having COVID, antibodies are detectable (and thus confer immunity) out to around 6 months, then start dwindling.


----------



## Brill (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Yes, no maybe so.
> 
> I really hate to sound like an ass.  We do not know.  We do know that in all cases so far any conferred antibodies decrease over time.  We don't even know if the vaccine will be a one-time deal or require boosters, or if they need to reengineer an entirely new vaccine each year a la flu vaccine.  They are doing serial antibodies on people who had the vaccine in trials to figure that out.  We do not even know if getting the vaccine keeps you from spreading it (they are looking at that, too).
> 
> What we do know:  after having COVID, antibodies are detectable (and thus confer immunity) out to around 6 months, then start dwindling.


So why get the vax?  Serious question.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 9, 2020)

All I can see is big phrama making a killing. No pun intended.


----------



## Dame (Dec 9, 2020)

Let's not forget the specialist who declared a moral objection to making this required as it has not been tested to the standard of other vaccines. 
https://twitter.com/intent/follow?o...&screen_name=MichaelYeadon3&tw_p=followbutton


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

lindy said:


> So why get the vax?  Serious question.



What is likelihood from dying from the flu? But we get a flu vaccine. What is the risk of tetanus? But we get a tetanus vaccine. And you wear the uniform, you get every vaccine known to man.

You get the vaccine so you don't get the bug. But whether or not you are at risk for it being a debilitating disease is up to you to decide, and the risk goes up the older you get and/or the more comorbidities you have. So for you right now, the risk may not warrant the vaccine. But for Grammy and Gramps? We have enough data to tell us that they might die or at least get sick to a debilitating state.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 9, 2020)

You don’t want this. Trust me. I would happily take my chances with a vaccine rather than go through this shit again. Even if I had to get a shot every six months.


----------



## Brill (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> What is likelihood from dying from the flu? But we get a flu vaccine. What is the risk of tetanus? But we get a tetanus vaccine. And you wear the uniform, you get every vaccine known to man.
> 
> You get the vaccine so you don't get the bug. But whether or not you are at risk for it being a debilitating disease is up to you to decide, and the risk goes up the older you get and/or the more comorbidities you have. So for you right now, the risk may not warrant the vaccine. But for Grammy and Gramps? We have enough data to tell us that they might die or at least get sick to a debilitating state.


Good point (but I keep forgetting my flu shot).

My 94 yr old grandmother lived at home alone and tested positive from COVID 20 Nov from a visiting nurse, who treated her open wounds on her legs (not sure what the deal was but her poor circulation caused skin to rupture and not heal leading to skin grafts which did work but the dressings needed changing).  She had mild symptoms (99 fever, malaise, slight congestion) but no shit by Thanksgiving, she claimed she felt fine, just a little tired.  She was in GREAT spirits and excited to hear about the smoked turkey and we talked politics (@amlove21 it was a massive Democrat bash fest) as she was very much a Nixon-Republican.  My oldest was shocked that she was doing so well because COVID kicked her ass as a 32 year old and wondered how in hell this old lady was doing so well.  My grandmother was looking forward to Sunday, 29 Nov when she would no longer be on quarantine and get visits from my Aunt and Uncle (they had visited her before her positive test and they too got the Wu flu).

Friday night (27 Nov) she was rushed to the ER because she had trouble breathing.  I'm not sure the exact timeline but I spoke to her on the phone in her room but the O2 machine made it very difficult for her to hear.  We made small talk and asked about her great-granddaughters.  A few days later, my aunt was admitted to the hospital (roomed a few doors away) because her pulse/ox was in the upper 70s.  My uncle, in his early 70s, has just been sick.

Sometime my grandmother got the antibody plasma therapy and it seemed to be working VERY well: they pulled her off the BPAB and put her back on the nasal O2 on 7 Dec.  The docs were having difficulty controlling her AFib and keeping her heart rate under 150 but were hopeful.  My aunt was discharged and was able to swing by my grandmother's room on her way home (she's on O2 but at home and uncle is still fine considering).

I got an email from my cousin yesterday around 1400 that things had quickly deteriorated and our grandmother had had enough: no more O2 and stop the meds. My other cousin set up Zoom call for all the grandkids to be with our grandmother virtually.  I got home just in time to see her in her bed apparently unaware and breathing very deeply but regularly.  As I signed in, all the grandkids started being, well, like me, laughing, joking, and making fun of each other but telling that tough old lady "Hey were all here."  No shit, her breathing rate increased but still deep.  My oldest (COVID recovered) messaged her and the nurse read the message, which was touching and sweet but...had a zinger (she done lern'd gud).

"Grandma we love you and thank you.  Oh, by the way, when you see Grandpa, please tell him it was (her other cousin) that broke the garage window and it wasn't me."  WE ALL DIED LAUGHING.  She allowed people who were feeling very sad to feel joy/happiness and revel in giving another family member shit for keeping a secret for YEARS.

We all noticed my grandmother's respiratory rate slowing but still very deep.  I texted my cousin that her body was fighting to stay alive and it was just natural but very soon the rate really slowed and the exchanges were not as deep.  Her neck started slowly showing signs of hypoxia and I told my cousin that she's not getting enough O2 and was most likely unconscious by then and expect one deep gasp before she went.  Her chin turned blue and her breathing just stopped.

I told my cousin that our grandmother was VERY secure in her faith and she was a very strong Baptist, who was not afraid of death because she knew what would happen to her soul.  She just worried about us...ALWAYS.

After she passed, I texted my family "Your grandmother is with her husband and daughter."

My point, and I do have one, is that shit happens.  As much as we like to think we're in control, we're not.  Someone can take all the precautions, wear the PPE, do all the "right" things, and still get killed.  Or a 5-year old could just be out riding his bike and his neighbor could walk up and execute him.  I'm not saying go play in traffic but rather *understand the risks, mitigate them, but ALWAYS ensure your loved ones know where you stand so that when you leave this world, you have no regarts.*

Finally, I'm a believer that the sadness someone feels after the death of a loved one is selfish.  Meaning that I'm sad that I will not feel the personal happiness felt hearing old stories about my WWI great-grandfather (her father), hearing what it was like growing up in small town OK coming out of the depression, how this lady met this hillbilly driving a milk wagon, and how she moved to LA because her dad could find work before WWII broke out and how the hillbilly moved to WA also to find work.  I'm sad that I won't hear how that hillbilly intentionally got suspended (you can see where I get it) from work (mission essential and couldn't get time off) so he could go to LA to grab his fiance and return to WA before the suspension expired.  I'm sad for me but proud that my grandmother showed all of us how to die with dignity and faith in God will enable us to meet any situation as long as we have faith in our Lord.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2020)

@lindy thanks very much for your testimony.  Man, that was deep.  

Everyone has decide where they stand with the vax, I don't care, except I care that everyone stays healthy.


----------



## Brill (Dec 9, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @lindy thanks very much for your testimony.  Man, that was deep.
> 
> Everyone has decide where they stand with the vax, I don't care, except I care that everyone stays healthy.


My cousin told me today yesterday was the first time he saw someone die. I just thought “huh”.

I have to say: the nurse present during all that was AMAZING. You medical folks are tops in my book, hands down.

Edit: to clarify @Devildoc , I’m ok either way with the vax if I gotta sure but it’s just not a must have...now we shift to shingles vax...yeah, all in on that one!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2020)

How this virus effects people differently reminds me of when West Nile Virus was prevalent.  I had a teacher in high school contract the virus and it took her down for the count, they had no idea what was going on, people thought she was going to die.  And then they figured it out, after a lot of great medical care she returned to the classroom later that year.


----------



## AWP (Dec 9, 2020)

@lindy's post made it dusty as fuck here in my office...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 10, 2020)

So I've previously mentioned that the boss is a Child Advocate and Special Victims attorney for the state.  Her specific role is to represent the state in the administrative side of a lot of the disgusting criminal cases.  Basically she puts fuck heads on registries.  She gets to read all the reports and what not.  How does this relate to the Rona?  Well she's starting to deal with cases that occurred during lockdown.  Cases that would never have happened if the kids were at school and the stress wasn't high. 

Well, this specific one wasn't nasty.  What I've learned from having her do her lawyer lady shit at the house is that just Stress can lead to domestic violence.  In this one the parents got into a fight over their kids school stuff.  Their kids are performing poorly.  Direct testimony from one of the children: "I really like school, school's fun, but now school is on the computer and I don't like that."


----------



## Dame (Dec 10, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> What I've learned from having her do her lawyer lady shit at the house is that just Stress can lead to domestic violence.


Dude. You scared me. I thought you were going to say she beat the fuck outta you.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 11, 2020)

This is pretty telling if the government rolls out a national vaccine injury compensation program before any vaccine is administered. 

Canada to implement its first national vaccine injury compensation program


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is pretty telling if the government rolls out a national vaccine injury compensation program before any vaccine is administered.
> 
> Canada to implement its first national vaccine injury compensation program



About the only thing the Canadian health care system has done with which I agree....


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 11, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> This is pretty telling if the government rolls out a national vaccine injury compensation program before any vaccine is administered.
> 
> Canada to implement its first national vaccine injury compensation program


Makes it seem like the writers of the show Utopia were on to something...


----------



## AWP (Dec 11, 2020)

It isn't like our gov't has a history of conducting medical experiments on its citizens...


----------



## Steve1839 (Dec 11, 2020)

AWP said:


> It isn't like our gov't has a history of conducting medical experiments on its citizens...


Well, I haven't contracted anthrax, if you get my drift...


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 11, 2020)

Canada's roll out plan.  If we're only getting 30,000 doses at at time, this is going to take a while.  I know they expect other vaccines to be approved soon but this is like sticking our fingers in the dike.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/covid19-vaccine-rollout-plans-canada-1.5836262


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 11, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> All I can see is big pharma making a killing. No pun intended.



Well, it's gonna be free for all Arizonans   .

________

Prominent Burbank Restaurant Reopens Today in Protest of ‘Tyrannical Mandates’



> “I’m going to lose my business anyway,” Lepejian said, “So fuck it.”



Stay Closed: lose your business.  Open Up: lose your business.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 11, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, it's gonna be free for all Arizonans   .
> 
> ________
> 
> ...


Wonder how much that'll cost me in taxes. Reading about the slow rollout in Canada, I can't help but think it's gonna be a big pay day. I'm sure by the time the last group starts rolling out it'll be time for a booster for the first. You know, for public safety.

ETA: I'm extremely skeptical of an industry that makes money on individuals with poor health.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 11, 2020)




----------



## Brill (Dec 11, 2020)

I think this guy is doing it wrong.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337492295223037953


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 11, 2020)

OK, how long before they shut down public restrooms and demand mandatory diapers? 

Flight attendants in China advised to wear diapers for COVID protection


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 11, 2020)

lindy said:


> I think this guy is doing it wrong.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337492295223037953



Yeah...that's a bad look.


----------



## AWP (Dec 12, 2020)

Stupid Orange man...there's no way we'll have a vaccine by the end of the year. Dumbass, what do you know about medicine, blah, blah, blah...

Oh, wait.

FDA's Covid-19 vaccine authorization is a 'monumental moment,' expert says. It came on the deadliest day of the pandemic



> (CNN)Trucks and planes loaded with Pfizer and BioNTech's vaccine will soon be departing from Kalamazoo, Michigan, to hospitals around the country, following the Food and Drug Administration's emergency use authorization (EUA).
> 
> "We need to take a moment, I think, and just consider that we are having this mass casualty event every day here in the US, but now we have this vaccine developed in record time that can in time really save us and save our country and save the world from this awful pandemic," emergency physician Dr. Leana Wen told CNN's Chris Cuomo moments after the authorization.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 12, 2020)

This article is another example as to how stupid society has become:
Fauci addresses Black Americans' vaccine concerns: This was 'developed by an African American woman'

There are probably a couple hundred people on the working team to make this a success, but let's credit the black woman. 🙄


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> This article is another example as to how stupid society has become:
> Fauci addresses Black Americans' vaccine concerns: This was 'developed by an African American woman'
> 
> There are probably a couple hundred people on the working team to make this a success, but let's credit the black woman. 🙄


Time Person of the Year right there...


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 12, 2020)

A good read.  Canada ignored decades of experience. 

“Every Store and School Should be Open.” Confronting the Pandemic with Confidence | C2C Journal


----------



## Brill (Dec 12, 2020)

Very eye opening in 2020. Only 9 months to flatten the curve!!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337871844020543493


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 12, 2020)

Been saying this for months. 

Cambridge Study: Children’s Mental Health Deteriorated 'Substantially' During Lockdown | Kerry McDonald


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 12, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> This article is another example as to how stupid society has become:
> Fauci addresses Black Americans' vaccine concerns: This was 'developed by an African American woman'
> 
> There are probably a couple hundred people on the working team to make this a success, but let's credit the black woman. 🙄


He understood the high level of distrust in a large swathe of the black community towards white people in government telling them "Here, it's good for you!" enough to add that medically irrelevant but culturally significant racial caveat that will ultimately help convince more than 54% of that subpopulation to actually get the vaccine when it is available to them.

The persisting distrust is historically established in centuries of racialized medical experimentation on black slaves all the way through to their 20th century descendants, Fauci was well aware of that, and the black doctor he mentioned and other black medical leaders understand the significance of eroding the distrust by showing they are both involved in the process and taking the vaccine ahead of them.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 12, 2020)

I think all of our lawmakers should lead the way in vaccination. Will they?


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think all of our lawmakers should lead the way in vaccination. Will they?


If you’re vaccinated, you have no more reason to follow their ORDERS.  Politicians have successfully harnessed fear to acquire more power, which people freely gave away.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338152881665564672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337777716276281347


----------



## Salt USMC (Dec 14, 2020)

Hey, some good news for once!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338093249228103683


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2020)

We start administering the Pfizer vax today.  I was voluntold to mix and draw up the first batch; my colleague will give the first shot.  Hospital admin and media will be there.  Oh, for fuck's sake....


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We start administering the Pfizer vax today.  I was voluntold to mix and draw up the first batch; my colleague will give the first shot.  Hospital admin and media will be there.  Oh, for fuck's sake....


Front and center, directly making history!


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 14, 2020)




----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Front and center, directly making history!



I revel in anonymity.  We have people in our department who eat this shit up, I told my boss they should be doing this.  At least I will be behind a mask.


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

Butt shots only...just like boot camp!!!


----------



## Archangel27 (Dec 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We start administering the Pfizer vax today.  I was voluntold to mix and draw up the first batch; my colleague will give the first shot.  Hospital admin and media will be there.  Oh, for fuck's sake....



As long as you don't turn people into pincushions when the cameras are rolling.  Congratulations on making history!


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> Butt shots only...just like boot camp!!!



This morning me, my boss, and a colleague were training employee/occupational health.  A couple big-wigs were watching, one of whom is the HMFIC of our health system.  He made a comment about it going into the arm, I said "no, sir, we drop trou and shoot it in the gluteal."  Brief pause, he burst out laughing.  My boss pulled me aside after and said "please don't do that again..."


----------



## AWP (Dec 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> Butt shots only...just like boot camp!!!



Or the Navy. Wait....different things, right?



Devildoc said:


> This morning me, my boss, and a colleague were training employee/occupational health.  A couple big-wigs were watching, one of whom is the HMFIC of our health system.  He made a comment about it going into the arm, I said "no, sir, we drop trou and shoot it in the gluteal."  Brief pause, he burst out laughing.  My boss pulled me aside after and said "please don't do that again..."



In other news @Devildoc and @lindy have acquired the same legal representation in their upcoming lawsuits.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 14, 2020)

AWP said:


> Or the Navy. Wait....different things, right?
> 
> 
> 
> In other news @Devildoc and @lindy have acquired the same legal representation in their upcoming lawsuits.


If Biden was in the Navy he would say, "Cum on, man!"


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2020)

Why they won't let me give the vax:


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 14, 2020)

With cameras rolling, just before you insert the needle, you need to look into the camera and say, "I sure hope this goes better than the anthrax vaccine I got in the Navy"....then start twitching.


----------



## Board and Seize (Dec 14, 2020)




----------



## amlove21 (Dec 14, 2020)

AWP said:


> Stupid Orange man...there's no way we'll have a vaccine by the end of the year. Dumbass, what do you know about medicine, blah, blah, blah...
> 
> Oh, wait.
> 
> FDA's Covid-19 vaccine authorization is a 'monumental moment,' expert says. It came on the deadliest day of the pandemic


This was my favorite news story today. So the mainstream media has to add "miracle worker" to the President's list of accolades now, yea? Nobel prize miracle worker.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

It's a German vaccine though. What's Trump got to do with the signing off by the FDA?


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> It's a German vaccine though. What's Trump got to do with the signing off by the FDA?


No, Pfizer is an American company and the vaccine development was a partnership between Pfizer and BioNTech, which is a German company.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 14, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> No, Pfizer is an American company and the vaccine development was a partnership between Pfizer and BioNTech, which is a German company.



Fair but still, what's he got to do with it? One passing comment made ages ago isn't exactly something to shout from the rafters unless that's the only thing you've got to shout about.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Fair but still, what's he got to do with it? One passing comment made ages ago isn't exactly something to shout from the rafters unless that's the only thing you've got to shout about.



Even Canadian media credits Trump for Operation Warp Speed and getting the vaccines here quickly. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/operation-warp-speed-trump-pfizer-moderna-vaccine-1.5806820


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 14, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Fair but still, what's he got to do with it? One passing comment made ages ago isn't exactly something to shout from the rafters unless that's the only thing you've got to shout about.


It's pretty straightforward, he encouraged businesses to move forward through parameters outlined in Operation Warp Speed.

In April, "experts" predicted the most optimistic timeline for a vaccine was 18+ months.  In August, the President stated a vaccine would be available by year end.  Those on the left and other critics scoffed at him.  

Pfizer may not have been part of the official Warp Speed agreement but it still set the tone and will leverage framework. In addition, Moderna and AstraZeneca were part of Warp Speed and Moderna is ready to ask for FDA approval with AstraZeneca trailing closely behind.

It's about setting an optimistic challenge as a leader and having faith that our ingenuity will allow us to meet the challenge.


----------



## Archangel27 (Dec 14, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> It's about setting an optimistic challenge as a leader and having faith that our ingenuity will allow us to meet the challenge.


True, although I think he definitely didn't do himself any favors at first.  

While I'm hopeful that it will be a "credit where credit's due" situation, I somehow doubt that this will be remembered as fondly as "We choose to go to the moon . . . "


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 14, 2020)

Templar27A said:


> True, although I think he definitely didn't do himself any favors at first.
> 
> While I'm hopeful that it will be a "credit where credit's due" situation, I somehow doubt that this will be remembered as fondly as "We choose to go to the moon . . . "


I'd frame it differently.  The media and typical Trump critics didn't do him any favors.  

That said, I generally agree with the comment that Trump is often his own worst enemy.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 14, 2020)

@Blizzard summed it up well.

Here’s the thing- you can’t have it both ways. We can’t shovel all the world’s shit on the president and blame him (because the buck stops with him) and then refuse to give him credit when one of his programs succeeds (because he didn’t have anything to do with it).

Warp speed was his program, he called his shot on the vaccine, he got lambasted by the media, and he delivered.

Kudos to the president on this one.


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> This was my favorite news story today. So the mainstream media has to add "miracle worker" to the President's list of accolades now, yea? Nobel prize miracle worker.


They had no trouble adding Putin stooge to his list so why not?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 14, 2020)

Slightly political, but mostly Rona related.  Gavin Newsom could be facing a recall, petition already has 800k signatures. 

Gov. Newsom facing possible recall election as CA continues to struggle with pandemic

Recall California Governor Gavin Newsom (2020)


----------



## Steve1839 (Dec 14, 2020)

The poached a doctor from the VA...


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2020)

Well, the first 15 went fine. I will tell you the whole process was a certifiable, Mark 1 mod 0, grade A first class clusterfuck a biblical proportions. Today was supposed to be all about educating staff and a dry run for the process, instead they brought all the media and, and brought in 15 staff members to get injected, if it was not so utterly frustrating it would be comical.

I get to go back tomorrow for round two, but now that the luster is gone, the media should leave us alone, all the big wigs will be gone, and we should be injecting patients. Or employees. What the fuck ever.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 14, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Well, the first 15 went fine. I will tell you the whole process was a certifiable, Mark 1 mod 0, grade A first class clusterfuck a biblical proportions. Today was supposed to be all about educating staff and a dry run for the process, instead they brought all the media and, and brought in 15 staff members to get injected, if it was not so utterly frustrating it would be comical.
> 
> I get to go back tomorrow for round two, but now that the luster is gone, the media should leave us alone, all the big wigs will be gone, and we should be injecting patients. Or employees. What the fuck ever.



The first jabs across Canada, were today as well.  3 days ago the media was pushing that the most vulnerable (LTC homes, etc.) were getting it first.  Yesterday they finally properly reported that it was staff in those facilities first.  First one today was a PSW in long term care.  But 120,000 individuals in a country of 38 million, it's going to take some time.


----------



## Brill (Dec 14, 2020)

Pretty much sums it up.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 14, 2020)

lindy said:


> Pretty much sums it up.


I started laughing as soon as I hit play. Then I stopped because it was seriously all too true.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> @Blizzard summed it up well.
> 
> Here’s the thing- you can’t have it both ways. We can’t shovel all the world’s shit on the president and blame him (because the buck stops with him) and then refuse to give him credit when one of his programs succeeds (because he didn’t have anything to do with it).
> 
> ...


Right?!  It's like some people have said, the guy could've brought peace to the Middle East and he still wouldn't get credit....wait a second...


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Right?!  It's like some people have said, the guy could've brought peace to the Middle East and he still wouldn't get credit....wait a second...


I just sort of put this together. 

Donald Trump, even though braggadocious as he is, championed a vaccine for a worldwide pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands. His own people laughed at him. That vaccine, in hyper-production and a literal scientific miracle (for how fast it was produced) hit the streets today. People at my base are receiving this. Today. 

An American president quite possibly saved the world through policy, and it was a policy that was lambasted and resisted by the media. 

(I fully accept you need to accept COVID is deadly, and yadda yadda yadda).

But seriously. Donald J. Trump's WARP SPEED vaccine will be the answer to a global pandemic, and without WARP SPEED, _tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions _may have died. 

And he did it in a year. 

If you somehow stand against this contention, and I mean this for all humanity- eat a bag of dicks. Those are the facts.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I just sort of put this together.
> 
> Donald Trump, even though braggadocious as he is, championed a vaccine for a worldwide pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands. His own people laughed at him. That vaccine, in hyper-production and a literal scientific miracle (for how fast it was produced) hit the streets today. People at my base are receiving this. Today.
> 
> ...


Now a serious question.  Do you think Joe Biden would've done the same?

I don't ask that intentionally as a pro-Trump or anti-Biden statement.  Rather, I ask it due to their position and fundamental differences in philosophies/viewpoints; they are or will be the "leaders of the free world" and their views on this issue are nearly polar opposite.

I'll tell you, I don't think this would've happened nearly this quickly under Biden.  We'd probably be looking at that 18 - 24 month minimum.  

Optimism is a tremendous force multiplier.  Leaders need to challenge to achieve the impossible; remove barriers and let 'em fly. For all his flaws, and there are many, Trump does this, perhaps even sometimes to a fault.  So, what's the alternative?

Biden is already looking to implement nationwide lock down and mask policy for at least100 days as soon as he takes office.  Why?  Is his decision based on facts or data?  He'll say it is but, really, it's not.  The approach is one driven from fear, a need to control, and a need to appear as though meaningful action is taking place.  However, it's a facade; the realities of this are simply ignored.  It ultimately leads to paralysis at many levels.  Frankly, it's kind of a defeatist mindset.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

I was just looking at COVID reported cases by country.  Is there ANYONE, aside from some in the press, that actually believe China still only has ~86,000 cases?  That's just absurd. 

It's been stated in this thread numerous times by many, but these numbers are just completely whack:
Coronavirus Update (Live): 73,202,281 Cases and 1,628,238 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

Clearly many have stopped reporting or just don't know what they're doing when it comes to reporting (I include the U.S. in that statement as there are clear disparities between states).


----------



## AWP (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I just sort of put this together.
> 
> Donald Trump, even though braggadocious as he is, championed a vaccine for a worldwide pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands. His own people laughed at him. That vaccine, in hyper-production and a literal scientific miracle (for how fast it was produced) hit the streets today. People at my base are receiving this. Today.
> 
> ...



I just got off the phone with Darth Soros. You need to turn in your Liberal card.

---

I'm a firm believer that you can't truly judge a president until 10 or so years out of office have passed.

When the emotion wears off and time heals some wounds, I wonder how Trump will be perceived?


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

AWP said:


> I just got off the phone with Darth Soros. You need to turn in your Liberal card.
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


Exactly.


----------



## Brill (Dec 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Now a serious question.  Do you think Joe Biden would've done the same?


No but I don’t think Trump did “it” other than be an executive who set his team up with success by choosing the right people, trusting them, removing all roadblocks (regulations), and, as the executive, was ready to manage risk and deal with the negative consequences.

Biden’s been in politics too long (damn near all of my life) and doesn’t have the experience to lead but rather decision by consensus (diffuse blowback if things go wrong). Hell, he wanted more confirmation to launch the UBL raid, according to his own stories.

Harris in the seat? I’m afraid she’ll make Obama look like a Reagan conservative.

Like him or hate him, Trump has had unbelievable success as a President despite being faced with unprecedented opposition from “allies” and enemies alike. Like WARPED SPEED, he was ridiculed early on as being racist and science denier.  Pelosi was inviting people to Chinatown and Harris stated she would not get the vaccine.

It‘s ridiculous that reducing COVID’s impact is political but isn’t everything now?


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Now a serious question.  Do you think Joe Biden would've done the same?
> 
> I don't ask that intentionally as a pro-Trump or anti-Biden statement.  Rather, I ask it due to their position and fundamental differences in philosophies/viewpoints; they are or will be the "leaders of the free world" and their views on this issue are nearly polar opposite.
> 
> I'll tell you, I don't think this would've happened nearly this quickly under Biden.  We'd probably be looking at that 18 - 24 month minimum.


I think it is reasonable to expect that any leader who didn't downplay the seriousness of the virus and delay an administrative response to it to the extent that POTUS did not only would have supported any measures (like Operation Warp Speed) to speed up vaccine development, but also subsequently could have gotten the initiative off the ground even earlier due to just that.

In spite of the name of the program, the people conducting it have been nothing but deliberative and careful in the whole process, as stated by Dr. Fauci himself, and there is no evidence to suggest that Biden (or most other leaders) wouldn't have placed at least as much trust (if not more, considering the way POTUS has repeatedly slammed leaders of his own COVID-19 task force) in the task force members' ability to do their jobs. 

Additionally, there isn't a mutual exclusivity to supporting speeding up vaccine development measures and encouraging local and state-level efforts towards comprehensive mask-wearing, and I think the attitude that Biden somehow wouldn't have 'done the same' (i.e. support an initiative to ramp up vaccine development efforts) based on his 100-day plan requires this kind of logic in order to even be considerable.

Take it from the guy running Operation Warp Speed - someone who also shares Biden's 'defeatist' mindset.

Trump vaccine czar endorses Biden's 100-day mask plan


> “I think it’s a good idea,” the Operation Warp Speed head said. “It's never too late. This pandemic is ravaging the country. We all need to take our precaution, have our masks, wash our hands and keep our distance, remain aware that this virus is a killer.”
> “We have a vaccine,” he continued. “There is light at the end of the tunnel. But we will not all have the vaccine in our arms before May or June. So we need to be very cautious and vigilant.”


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 15, 2020)

That's a dangerous game to play.  Had Trump been told on day 1 the seriousness of the virus his entire administration would have pivoted and brought the nation's resources to bear.

Coulda/shoulda/woulda, who knows who would have done what.  

But I think it's fair that if we're gonna lay blame (culpability) at Trump's feet for the administration's fuck-ups, gotta give him/his team kudos when they do something "right".


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 15, 2020)

Pfizer = Good
Moderna = Better 
??? = Best

I'd rather take this than Pfizer at this point.

Moderna vaccine appears to protect against coronavirus infection


----------



## Brill (Dec 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That's a dangerous game to play.  Had Trump been told on day 1 the seriousness of the virus his entire administration would have pivoted and brought the nation's resources to bear.
> 
> Coulda/shoulda/woulda, who knows who would have done what.
> 
> But I think it's fair that if we're gonna lay blame (culpability) at Trump's feet for the administration's fuck-ups, gotta give him/his team kudos when they do something "right".


But his tweets...


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 15, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That's a dangerous game to play.  Had Trump been told on day 1 the seriousness of the virus his entire administration would have pivoted and brought the nation's resources to bear.
> 
> Coulda/shoulda/woulda, who knows who would have done what.


Agreed re: how @Blizzard framed his question, and fun to entertain.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

Generally speaking.  We've discussed this.  The POTUS handled this how you would handle this whole thing.  We've gone over this multiple times.  The Chinese Data is completely fake all over the place.  Given how infectious this was, there's not a chance in hell it wasn't rampaging in the Summer of 2019 and being hidden.  If we knew actual numbers from China very early, or if China had responded to the same level they responded to SARS-COV-1 (yes they hid shit then too) then it would have been contained in CHINA.

Seriously, no Western Nation knew how contagious this virus was or how deadly.  But considering the recovery rate continues to climb across all demographics I still don't understand why we're fucking our economies.

___________

Different subject, courts continuing judicial review of state mandates. 

Supreme Court sides with Colorado church challenging Covid capacity limits


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

I tend to agree with my equine-mounted friend @ThunderHorse on this one. 

I will say though, two things can be true at the same time- his tweets _were _garbage and hurt the nation/office of the Presidency, @lindy . Disgraceful. Let's not downplay his bullshit that he insisted on baking into every single aspect of his presidency.


----------



## Brill (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I will say though, two things can be true at the same time- his tweets _were _garbage and hurt the nation/office of the Presidency, @lindy . Disgraceful. Let's not downplay his bullshit that he insisted on baking into every single aspect of his presidency.


Fully agree with you but I also think the "intelligence" that supported POTUS being a Russian asset had much more impact on the entire country for at least 3 years and, in my opinion, that damage was not isolated to one office but all of US.

I agree that Trump's tweets hurt but the actions of his some of his own executive branch subordinates had a significantly deeper and long lasting effect on the nation.  In 2022, we will not be talking about Trump's tweets but we will be talking about political intelligence, "dirty tricks", FISA, distrust of FBI, etc long after.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

lindy said:


> Fully agree with you but I also think the "intelligence" that supported POTUS being a Russian asset had much more impact on the entire country for at least 3 years and, in my opinion, that damage was not isolated to one office but all of US.
> 
> I agree that Trump's tweets hurt but the actions of his some of his own executive branch subordinates had a significantly deeper and long lasting effect on the nation.  In 2022, we will not be talking about Trump's tweets but we will be talking about political intelligence, "dirty tricks", FISA, distrust of FBI, etc long after.


I mean, you don’t have to sell me on the entire system being a dumpster fire. I’ve been saying it for months. But that wasn’t the context of my comment.

I’m all for giving the pres his props when due. But his individual actions and decisions while president irreparably and permanently damaged/changed The American presidency.

Now, you can blame the rest of what you mentioned on whatever nebulous group of (assuming) left leaning ne’er dowels all you’d like. I’m happy to agree those situations are also garbage.

But Donald J. Trump, Mr “Grab em by the pussy” himself runs his Twitter account. He owns the damage that he’s done and no amount of saying “BuT hE wAs AlWaYs ReSpOnDiNg To PeOplE bEiNg UnFaIr To HiM.” washes that away. 

They shot Reagan. He managed, somehow, to not act like a fucking baby.

Edit cause phone*


----------



## Brill (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I mean, you don’t have to sell me on the entire system being a dumpster fire. I’ve been saying it for months. But that wasn’t the context of my comment.
> 
> I’m all for giving the pres his props when due. But his individual actions and decisions while president irreparably and permanently damaged/changed The American presidency.
> 
> ...



His tweets are crass for sure but they don't bother me.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

lindy said:


> His tweets are crass for sure but they don't bother me.


All good. 

Just to avoid further derail (we got close there), back to the disease so deadly, you have to take a test in order to even find out if you have it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

Alright, I'm gonna start throwing hands at these idiot doctors.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338912921632600066
I thought the whole point of vaccine was to allow me to return to you know, living?  But you have twerps telling people on national fucking tv to continue to cower in fear.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

This _very thing _is causing a lot of heartache here. 

A lot of our dudes are considering getting the vaccine because that means, no more masks, no more reindeer games, right?

Absolutely not. the current vaccine only blunts the severity of the disease if contracted- it doesn't prevent you from getting/passing. 

Our flight doc laid this out in a leadership brief and everyone collectively lost their shit. As stated earlier, I believe the Moderna vaccine stops transmission/contraction.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Alright, I'm gonna start throwing hands at these idiot doctors.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338912921632600066
> I thought the whole point of vaccine was to allow me to return to you know, living?  But you have twerps telling people on national fucking tv to continue to cower in fear.





To answer your question, the vaccine the Trump administration broke records to put out before the year ended was never tested for its ability to prevent contraction and spread, despite behind able to prevent the symptoms in vaccinated people.

Why a vaccine doesn't mean that you can stop wearing a mask


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> This _very thing _is causing a lot of heartache here.
> 
> A lot of our dudes are considering getting the vaccine because that means, no more masks, no more reindeer games, right?
> 
> ...



So, kinda like the flu vaccine.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> This _very thing _is causing a lot of heartache here.
> 
> A lot of our dudes are considering getting the vaccine because that means, no more masks, no more reindeer games, right?
> 
> ...


Agree on the Moderna vaccine, based on what I've read.  

It does beg the question about Pfizer though, how can their product be considered a vaccine if what you describe is true (not suggesting it isn't true)?  I thought I read somewhere that Moderna and Pfizers methodologies were very similar but perhaps not.

Perhaps @Devildoc can shed some additional light?


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 15, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, kinda like the flu vaccine.


Well, flu vaccine protects against what is believed will be a small handful of the most prevalent strains. You can still contract one of the umpteen strains not covered.


----------



## Dame (Dec 15, 2020)

Yeah, I'm confused. According to the CDC's site:
Vaccines: The Basics​Vaccines contain the same germs that cause disease. (For example, measles vaccine contains measles virus, and Hib vaccine contains Hib bacteria.) But they have been either killed or weakened to the point that they don’t make you sick. Some vaccines contain only a _part _of the disease germ.
A vaccine stimulates your immune system to produce antibodies, exactly like it would if you were exposed to the disease. After getting vaccinated, you develop immunity to that disease, without having to get the disease first.
This is what makes vaccines such powerful medicine. Unlike most medicines, which treat or cure diseases, vaccines _prevent_ them.

So can this really be called a vaccine? More like a treatment?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Well, flu vaccine protects against what is believed will be a small handful of the most prevalent strains. You can still contract one of the umpteen strains not covered.



I was partially being sarcastic.


----------



## Brill (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> ...back to the disease so deadly, you have to take a test in order to even find out if you have it.


Serious question cuz you're in the medical field: what does knowledge of a positive COVID test do for medical professionals who don't present (speakin' the lingo!!!!) with symptoms?

I think I had COVID back in mid-March but it was before antibody testing was widely available (currently, the only way I know of getting a test is via blood donation via Red Cross) but I just had a nasal swab yesterday (had a high fever and need negative test to go back to work).  I don't KNOW if I had COVID but assume based on timing (that's when Faucci said it would get bad and had most of the symptoms including dry cough lasting weeks).

Per CDC FAQs:
If I already had COVID, do I need the vaccine?


> There is not enough information currently available to say if or for how long after infection someone is protected from getting COVID-19 again; this is called natural immunity. Early evidence suggests natural immunity from COVID-19 may not last very long, but more studies are needed to better understand this. Until we have a vaccine available and the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices makes recommendations to CDC on how to best use COVID-19 vaccines, CDC cannot comment on whether people who had COVID-19 should get a COVID-19 vaccine.



 Does immunity last longer than protection from the vaccine:      


> The protection someone gains from having an infection (called natural immunity) varies depending on the disease, and it varies from person to person. Since this virus is new, we don’t know how long natural immunity might last. Some early evidence—based on some people— seems to suggest that natural immunity may not last very long.
> Regarding vaccination, we won’t know how long immunity lasts until we have a vaccine and more data on how well it works.
> Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.



How many people need the vaccine to establish herd immunity?


> Experts do not know what percentage of people would need to get vaccinated to achieve herd immunity to COVID-19. Herd immunity is a term used to describe when enough people have protection—either from previous infection or vaccination—that it is unlikely a virus or bacteria can spread and cause disease. As a result, everyone within the community is protected even if some people don’t have any protection themselves. The percentage of people who need to have protection in order to achieve herd immunity varies by disease.


----------



## Polar Bear (Dec 15, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Absolutely not. the current vaccine only blunts the severity of the disease if contracted- it doesn't prevent you from getting/passing.


For the love God,I wish people would get that through their thick skulls


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 15, 2020)

The Pfizer vaccine does confer immunity; in theory you won't get it. But they do not know if you will pass it even if you have immunity, they just don't know. All of these immunizations are still under investigation, and only being offered because pushed through via emergency use authorization. The Pfizer vaccine still has two years left on the study.

And with any of them, we don't know how long the antibodies will last requiring a booster like tetanus or a yearly immunization like flu.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2020)

Anyone see this?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/15/fda...in-moderna-and-pfizer-vaccine-recipients.html


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 15, 2020)

lindy said:


> Serious question cuz you're in the medical field: what does knowledge of a positive COVID test do for medical professionals who don't present (speakin' the lingo!!!!) with symptoms?


I am gonna defer here. I am not what we would cal an actual medical professional- we work like, zero clinical time. I haven’t worked a shift in a hospital (or EMS) for like, 2 years?

I will say from having a bunch of friends on the field- even an asymptomatic positive test gets you minimum 10, some as much as 14 days off. And I’m only speaking for Albuquerque, San Antonio, and UAB down in Bama, because that’s where my friends who are *actually* in this fight are working.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 15, 2020)

If you test positive, but new symptoms, you still quarantine for a period of time.


----------



## AWP (Dec 15, 2020)

lindy said:


> Serious question cuz you're in the medical field: what does knowledge of a positive COVID test do for medical professionals who don't present (speakin' the lingo!!!!) with symptoms?
> 
> I think I had COVID back in mid-March but it was before antibody testing was widely available (currently, the only way I know of getting a test is via blood donation via Red Cross) but I just had a nasal swab yesterday (had a high fever and need negative test to go back to work).  I don't KNOW if I had COVID but assume based on timing (that's when Faucci said it would get bad and had most of the symptoms including dry cough lasting weeks).
> 
> ...



That's a lot of words to say "we have no idea what to tell you."


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 15, 2020)

I’m afraid you cannot enter if you are not wearing .... The Button.

Wear a sticker saying you got the COVID-19 vaccine? The CDC thinks it could help


----------



## Board and Seize (Dec 16, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I’m afraid you cannot enter if you are not wearing .... The Button.
> 
> Wear a sticker saying you got the COVID-19 vaccine? The CDC thinks it could help
> 
> View attachment 37495


When are we getting the vomit reaction back?


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 16, 2020)

Board and Seize said:


> When are we getting the vomit reaction back?


C'mon, maaaan.    Think positive!

Play it right and you could cover all your monthlies with that sweet new counterfeit vaccine button/card sidehustle!

Less jokingly, I know of at least one establishment that has considered requiring vaccine cards for entry during the first several months of reopening.


----------



## Dame (Dec 16, 2020)

Only $3. Special for you today only.
The original "I'm Vaccinated Against Corona" Pinback Button  | eBay


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 16, 2020)

Dame said:


> Only $3. Special for you today only.
> The original "I'm Vaccinated Against Corona" Pinback Button  | eBay


See, @Board and Seize?  Already 24 sold on this one, and they only just started vaccinating the public on Monday!


----------



## Dame (Dec 16, 2020)

LOL. This is what happens when I'm waiting for files to download on the work machine.
Idle hands.


----------



## Brill (Dec 16, 2020)

Guess Hydroxy is ok now? Odd how all the previous insanity is now not so crazy? 

AMA rescinds statement against the use of HCQ for COVID-19 treatment - Covid Call To Humanity


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 16, 2020)

Healthcare workers are under so much pressure, they're suffering mentally, sooo many patients coming through the door.  Also: let's get 50 people outside and choreograph this dance!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338621856044244992


----------



## Brill (Dec 16, 2020)

^^^ I bet you that they’re on the clock too.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Healthcare workers are under so much pressure, they're suffering mentally, sooo many patients coming through the door.  Also: let's get 50 people outside and choreograph this dance!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338621856044244992


.... So, a badly choreographed dance number disproves that prevailing narrative?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 16, 2020)

That Twitter of the dance is fucking stupid.

On Monday everyone clapped as they ceremoniously carted in exactly two vials (10 doses).  As I got the vial out of the fridge, some lady said "you are holding the most precious thing in the world right now."  Stop the drama.  Stop the hyperbole.  Stop the stupid dancing.

Leadership, you want to support us?  Get us more nurses.  Give us real support, not "care packages".

In other news, a woman today told me "you are doing the most important thing you will ever do."  I said, "I dunno, smoke-checking a jihadi 400 yards away planting an IED was pretty important, too."  She just stared at me.

Edited to add, stress among HC workers, especially nurses, it at an all-time high.  The PPE, COVID, deaths, it is a cumulative grind.  I do not say it lightly, I am worried about my colleagues.


----------



## Brill (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> As I got the vial out of the fridge, some lady said "you are holding the most precious thing in the world right now."


You should have rubbed it on your junk...to warm it up of course.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That Twitter of the dance is fucking stupid.
> 
> On Monday everyone clapped as they ceremoniously carted in exactly two vials (10 doses).  As I got the vial out of the fridge, some lady said "you are holding the most precious thing in the world right now."  Stop the drama.  Stop the hyperbole.  Stop the stupid dancing.
> 
> ...


Not to sound crass, but how much disinfo are your coworkers consuming? I get the feeling there is alotta fear porn out there and that it's making a bad situation seem worse than it is. Is it possible that demoralized admin and higher level staff are making things worse for people on the ground?

Fear spreading like a disease sorta thing. Apologies if I'm not making much sense.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 16, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> .... So, a badly choreographed dance number disproves that prevailing narrative?



I'm being told they are, @Devildoc is on the front lines telling us they are.  But if a hospital is able to have 50 personnel do that stunt instead of getting them off the clock so they can unwind, then I have an issue with the leadership and it also gives a poor image to people who've been stuck working in their house approaching 9 months.  Deeds, not words.  And that right there, that's fluff, and it's bad fluff.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 16, 2020)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Not to sound crass, but how much disinfo are your coworkers consuming? I get the feeling there is alotta fear porn out there and that it's making a bad situation seem worse than it is. Is it possible that demoralized admin and higher level staff are making things worse for people on the ground?
> 
> Fear spreading like a disease sorta thing. Apologies if I'm not making much sense.



Is it possible? Sure, probably. But is it the ground truth? No, not really. We've done a really good job at our institution since April of minimizing distractions, the outside noise, we focus on our own institution in our own research and protocols.

The challenge is working four or five 12-hour shifts in full PPE, the perpetual skin breakdown and acne, the off and on quarantine, seeing ICU patients die at a higher rate than pre-COVID, etc.  Right now is particularly tough because our census is as high as it's ever been and our internal numbers are showing a three times jump in admissions within the next month. 

People are tired, they're exhausted, they're scared, they are fatigued.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Is it possible? Sure, probably. But is it the ground truth? No, not really. We've done a really good job at our institution since April of minimizing distractions, the outside noise, we focus on our own institution in our own research and protocols.
> 
> The challenge is working four or five 12-hour shifts in full PPE, the perpetual skin breakdown and acne, the off and on quarantine, seeing ICU patients die at a higher rate than pre-COVID, etc.  Right now is particularly tough because our census is as high as it's ever been and our internal numbers are showing a three times jump in admissions within the next month.
> 
> People are tired, they're exhausted, they're scared, they are fatigued.



For a bit during the summer we were seeing a huge rise in non-covid hospitalizations from people that avoiding go to the ER, is that trend continuing?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 16, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> For a bit during the summer we were seeing a huge rise in non-covid hospitalizations from people that avoiding go to the ER, is that trend continuing?



In a lot of places, yes.  That's never really impacted us just because of our size and ability to absorb and move resources.

It is going to become more of a problem in the coming weeks and months as related hospitalizations increase and fewer resources for other patients.  We're also looking at creative ways to handle covid patients, make them technical "inpatients", but keeping them at home and having hospital staff check in with them three and four times a day at their house.  

This is a very real problem in a lot of hospitals, and it certainly will be a problem at ours given our admission rate right now.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Is it possible? Sure, probably. But is it the ground truth? No, not really. We've done a really good job at our institution since April of minimizing distractions, the outside noise, we focus on our own institution in our own research and protocols.
> 
> The challenge is working four or five 12-hour shifts in full PPE, the perpetual skin breakdown and acne, the off and on quarantine, seeing ICU patients die at a higher rate than pre-COVID, etc.  Right now is particularly tough because our census is as high as it's ever been and our internal numbers are showing a three times jump in admissions within the next month.
> 
> People are tired, they're exhausted, they're scared, they are fatigued.


Well damn, that sucks. I don't have any ideas that might ease fatigue. Any thoughts on herd immunity?


----------



## Brill (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> People are tired, they're exhausted, they're scared, they are fatigued.


Lead them Doc! We the People need them!!! “Hang Tough!”

The nurse who held my grandmother’s hand and read notes from loved ones who couldn’t participate in the Zoom VTC was a Godsend. She was holding her old hand and comforting online family members until the very end.

Despite the crying and sadness, the nurse was composed and compassionate: the signature of a true professional.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 16, 2020)

I was expecting this when I got a call from my doctor's office this week to change my appointment to a phone appointment.  Things are getting sketchy. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hospitals-ontario-spike-covid-19-patients-memo-1.5842675


----------



## Dame (Dec 16, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In other news, a woman today told me "you are doing the most important thing you will ever do."  I said, "I dunno, smoke-checking a jihadi 400 yards away planting an IED was pretty important, too."  She just stared at me.


I wish I could love this 10 times, for all kinds of reasons.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 16, 2020)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the next Attorney General of the United States.  Chief Usurper of New Yorkers rights.

No. 202.82: Continuing Temporary Suspension and Modification of Laws Relating to the Disaster Emergency

It's a lot of shit in there.  But Ugh.

__________

ETA: Different state, but San Bernardino County is taking the fight to the God Emperor.  San Bernardino County sues Gov. Newsom over coronavirus stay-at-home order


----------



## Brill (Dec 17, 2020)

Who doesn’t love a dank meme?????


----------



## compforce (Dec 17, 2020)

Covid-19 Vaccine Passports Could Help Life Return to Normal, but Experts Urge Caution - WSJ

*in my worst WWII era German accent*  Show me your papers if you want to buy dis food


----------



## Brill (Dec 17, 2020)

compforce said:


> Covid-19 Vaccine Passports Could Help Life Return to Normal, but Experts Urge Caution - WSJ
> 
> *in my worst WWII era German accent*  Show me your papers if you want to buy dis food


Hell yes!!! Non-COVIDites should be forced to give up their businesses to COVIDers and a Federal law should be passed that only COVIDers can hold public office, serve in security forces, etc. 

For the children of course.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 17, 2020)

compforce said:


> Covid-19 Vaccine Passports Could Help Life Return to Normal, but Experts Urge Caution - WSJ
> 
> *in my worst WWII era German accent*  Show me your papers if you want to buy dis food


Yeah, they can fuck off with that idea.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 17, 2020)

compforce said:


> Covid-19 Vaccine Passports Could Help Life Return to Normal, but Experts Urge Caution - WSJ
> 
> *in my worst WWII era German accent*  Show me your papers if you want to buy dis food



Yah it was brought up here a week ago.  Fuck that.  

Vaccine passport coming to Ontario?


----------



## “The Old Man” (Dec 17, 2020)

Triple fuck that!


----------



## “The Old Man” (Dec 17, 2020)

Kinda like when a c store clerk TOLD me. That I need to have a mask on. Or they wouldn’t ring up the stuff I had on the counter.
I told him “ if I come back in here with a mask on, I ain’t paying for shit.”

Got my goods right away... sans mask.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 17, 2020)

Tinman6 said:


> Kinda like when a c store clerk TOLD me. That I need to have a mask on. Or they wouldn’t ring up the stuff I had on the counter.


That convenience store clerk probably could not give a damn whether you wear a mask or not. He was simply trying to enforce the rules that came down from above him so that he did not lose his job, and the business owner did not get fined or closed by the government.




Tinman6 said:


> I told him “ if I come back in here with a mask on, I ain’t paying for shit.”


I hope you didn’t really do that, it is difficult enough for retail employees today, suggesting that they would be robbed for enforcing the rules probably does not help.

@Tinman6 - I’m not picking on you specifically, but I am absolutely shocked at the amount of abuse my front line retail employees take from customers about this mask situation.

They’re just showing up every day trying not to get sick and follow whatever the updated policy is to keep from getting fired.

A plea to all, please be kind and compassionate to your friendly (hopefully) retail workers.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Dec 17, 2020)

_@Ooh-Rah I _was basically just mean mugging him. 
How many sheets of lexan and, how many masks. Do you have to wear?
No offense taken nor any implied.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 17, 2020)

Beverly Hills trying to figure out how to secede from the Authority of LA County Health Department and establish their own so that don't have destroy their economy.

Premiering Soon: The Real Health Department of Beverly Hills

______________

ETA: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

So now, I actually have a reason not to take this vaccine for a very long time.


----------



## AWP (Dec 17, 2020)

lindy said:


> Hell yes!!! Non-COVIDites should be forced to give up their businesses to COVIDers and a Federal law should be passed that only COVIDers can hold public office, serve in security forces, etc.
> 
> For the children of course.



Not everyday where you can use Godwin's Law and actually be 100% correct.
---

Break, break. I'm about to fly home for the first time since Sep. 2019. I'll wear a mask outside of my home or when around people. Not because I'm a believer, but people are. If wearing a mask to the grocery store or Home Depot keeps people from freaking out or most importantly, gives them some peace of mind, I'm fine with my choice. With that said, I think it should be voluntary and not state or federally mandated. If I choose to wear a mask, that hurts who? No one. If we think it is acceptable for the gov't to step in for something like that, then we've slid another step closer to a totalitarian state. Yes, I put seatbelt and helmet laws in this category. Do they save lives? Absolutely! Do I wear my seatbelt? Absolutely! Should the gov't step in and save us from ourselves? Nah, son.

Save us from other people (smoking indoors for example), but otherwise let us live our own lives.

Times are stressful enough. If wearing a mask in public takes an emotional burden, however slight, off of someone, then I'm fine with my CHOICE. I am a grade A asshole when needed, but I also know how to say, please, thank you, and hold open a door. Those cost me nothing and neither will wearing a mask in public. It rarely costs us anything to respect others.

And when needed, they can fuck off with a pizza cutter and I'll deliver that message with a smile.


----------



## Brill (Dec 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> Not everyday where you can use Godwin's Law and actually be 100% correct.
> ---
> 
> Break, break. I'm about to fly home for the first time since Sep. 2019. I'll wear a mask outside of my home or when around people. Not because I'm a believer, but people are. If wearing a mask to the grocery store or Home Depot keeps people from freaking out or most importantly, gives them some peace of mind, I'm fine with my choice. With that said, I think it should be voluntary and not state or federally mandated. If I choose to wear a mask, that hurts who? No one. If we think it is acceptable for the gov't to step in for something like that, then we've slid another step closer to a totalitarian state. Yes, I put seatbelt and helmet laws in this category. Do they save lives? Absolutely! Do I wear my seatbelt? Absolutely! Should the gov't step in and save us from ourselves? Nah, son.
> ...


Your body, my choice, comrade.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-have-merry-little-christmas-emphasis-little/



> When asked whether the different outcome has more to do with American individualism or the executive branch's stance on avoiding national mandates, *Fauci responded that the “independent spirit in the United States of people not wanting to comply with public health measures has certainly hurt us a bit*.”


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 18, 2020)

Just found out that our governor is going to come through Monday or Tuesday, he wants to "talk with the team that put all this together ".

My boss has already approved my PTO.  Not into the dog and pony show.

Regarding Dr Fauci, he's not wrong, you know.  We have a history of rugged individualism, we are allowed to make our own choices, good or bad. This is no different.


----------



## Brill (Dec 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Just found out that our governor is going to come through Monday or Tuesday, he wants to "talk with the team that put all this together ".
> 
> My boss has already approved my PTO.  Not into the dog and pony show.
> 
> Regarding Dr Fauci, he's not wrong, you know.  We have a history of rugged individualism, we are allowed to make our own choices, good or bad. This is no different.


I already prepared your talking points! I had multiple pages but after my wife edited out all the swears, it says:

”Good morning Guv’nuh.”

That‘s all that made it past the censor.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Dec 18, 2020)

@Devildoc. Are we sure this PTO wasn't "directed"?


----------



## AWP (Dec 18, 2020)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> @Devildoc. Are we sure this PTO wasn't "directed"?



If his wife's like mine, SHE told him to take PTO.

"Yeah, Babe, the Gov. is coming by work to talk to the people involved in this bullshit circus."
"It sounds like a good time to take some PTO."
"Nah, I'm good, I'll be fine."
(She glares)
"You know, a day off would do me some good."


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> If his wife's like mine, SHE told him to take PTO.
> 
> "Yeah, Babe, the Gov. is coming by work to talk to the people involved in this bullshit circus."
> "It sounds like a good time to take some PTO."
> ...



Lol, not quite word for word, but almost.  

My contribution to cost savings and our response: there was one and a half doses left in the vials after the five vials that Pfizer said was actually in the vial. I brought that to my boss's attention who took it to her boss who took it to her boss, within 2 hours we were on a conference call with the FDA and the CDC and now Pfizer has updated their practice saying we can have six doses per vial.


----------



## AWP (Dec 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Lol, not quite word for word, but almost.
> 
> My contribution to cost savings and our response: there was one and a half doses left in the vials after the five vials that Pfizer said was actually in the vial. I brought that to my boss's attention who took it to her boss who took it to her boss, within 2 hours we were on a conference call with the FDA and the CDC and now Pfizer has updated their practice saying we can have six doses per vial.



Clearly the folks who "package" the product don't understand "the maths" involved. That really builds confidence. Stringer Bell is not amused with their business acumen.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 18, 2020)

AWP said:


> Clearly the folks who "package" the product don't understand "the maths" involved. That really builds confidence. Stringer Bell is not amused with their business acumen.



Almost every vial of any medication has a little leftover for spillage or waste, but any other medication we have a great deal of flexibility on what we do with it. Since this is still technically considered an investigational medication, so we were legally and ethically bound to only the five doses. But I said it was silly, at the end of the day we are throwing away hundreds of doses. It's not an expense issue, each dose is about three and a half dollars.  But the fact that they had to move heaven and earth, the FDA, and the CDC is just absolutely asinine. The bureaucracy in this is incredible. It's like the peacetime military, cumbersome.


----------



## Brill (Dec 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The bureaucracy in this is incredible. It's like the peacetime military, cumbersome.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 18, 2020)

I posted earlier a link to a story where the Federal Government has given vaccine manufacturers liability protections that they normally don't receive when it comes to regular pharmaceuticals.  I'm not an anti-vaxxer, in fact I'm about to head to the 'ol VA and get me a flu shot.  However, as someone who works in risk mitigation and indemnification as part of the many things I do for work.  I cannot wait to be last in line for this vaccine since I can't sue Pfizer or Moderna for complications that may arise from their vaccine because the Government has indemnified their liability.  But, I also can't sue the government because they passed that law too.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 18, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Just found out that our governor is going to come through Monday or Tuesday, he wants to "talk with the team that put all this together ".
> 
> My boss has already approved my PTO.  Not into the dog and pony show.
> 
> Regarding Dr Fauci, he's not wrong, you know.  We have a history of rugged individualism, we are allowed to make our own choices, good or bad. This is no different.


The hero we need!


ThunderHorse said:


> I cannot wait to be last in line for this vaccine since I can't sue Pfizer or Moderna for complications that may arise from their vaccine because the Government has indemnified their liability.  But, I also can't sue the government because they passed that law too.


It's almost like the Army prepared you for this very moment. ;)


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 18, 2020)

In today’s vocabulary lesson, we will discuss the word “irony”.

No charge against pawn shop owner who shot and killed a man during May riot - Alpha News

_The Hennepin County Attorney’s Office announced this week that it lacks evidence to charge a Minneapolis pawn shop owner accused of fatally shooting a man because looters destroyed all the video evidence._


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 18, 2020)

I guess all the vaccine rollouts didn't go well. 

Stanford Apologizes For Botched Vaccine Rollout After Doctors Revolt


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> I guess all the vaccine rollouts didn't go well.
> 
> Stanford Apologizes For Botched Vaccine Rollout After Doctors Revolt



Bwahahahaha!  "Faulty algorithm".  Little ol' us, we scrubbed lists and identified the tiers of recipients and cross-checked the lists against hospital employees.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 18, 2020)

@Devildoc you'll enjoy this one to. 

Second COVID-19 vaccination in Toronto appears to have been botched: Doc


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 18, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> @Devildoc you'll enjoy this one to.
> 
> Second COVID-19 vaccination in Toronto appears to have been botched: Doc



I don't judge, man. My colleague and I, we had the first two vials Monday morning, we had all these cameras around us, people in our personal space. The lighting was horrible, if I can download the clip from the news I'll upload it here.  That could have been me.  

That said, when you know it's going to be a circus, you rehearse it. Mentally you think about it, you think through all the steps, you take deep breaths, no different than rehearsing an assault, a play, or any other high stress event.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 19, 2020)

I could get behind this before a vaccine passport.  Especially with the current vaccine choices.

12 big Canadian companies to start voluntary rapid COVID-19 testing of employees - CityNews Toronto


----------



## Dvr55119 (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Bwahahahaha!  "Faulty algorithm".  Little ol' us, we scrubbed lists and identified the tiers of recipients and cross-checked the lists against hospital employees.



I am getting mine in the next couple of weeks from UNC. I technically have a choice, but intubation and central line placement is about as risky as it gets so I am going forward with it.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 19, 2020)

Dvr55119 said:


> I am getting mine in the next couple of weeks from UNC. I technically have a choice, but intubation and central line placement is about as risky as it gets so I am going forward with it.



We have multiple tiers of people, the first round is definitely for people and high risk areas, to include physicians, nurses, respiratory therapy, environmental services, HUCs, patient transporters, interpreters, top to bottom and left to right.

We are running well ahead of schedule, I think we'll probably get everyone vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine by the end of January.

One of my colleagues, her husband is a cardiothoracic surgery fellow, he got his over at the VA, they have a much smaller list and he could get it about a week and a half sooner that way. So if you want it, getting it at UNC if you can is good. I think you can get the second one with us as long as you keep that card, I recommend taking a picture of the card because the picture will suffice if you lose the card.


----------



## Florida173 (Dec 19, 2020)

My company is mandating we all take covid tests during the holidays before returning to client site. My issue is that my wife and i did indeed just have covid, 100% asymptomatic, and we were told that we'd pop hot for up to the next 90 days... so...


----------



## Dvr55119 (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We have multiple tiers of people, the first round is definitely for people and high risk areas, to include physicians, nurses, respiratory therapy, environmental services, HUCs, patient transporters, interpreters, top to bottom and left to right.
> 
> We are running well ahead of schedule, I think we'll probably get everyone vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine by the end of January.
> 
> One of my colleagues, her husband is a cardiothoracic surgery fellow, he got his over at the VA, they have a much smaller list and he could get it about a week and a half sooner that way. So if you want it, getting it at UNC if you can is good. I think you can get the second one with us as long as you keep that card, I recommend taking a picture of the card because the picture will suffice if you lose the card.


I don’t have any connection to Duke currently. I will be at Duke Raleigh and Duke Regional in the next bit, but I am at Rex for the foreseeable future.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 19, 2020)

Interesting background on the research that led to the Pfizer vaccine. 

She was demoted, doubted and rejected. Now, her work is the basis of the COVID-19 vaccine


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> We have multiple tiers of people, the first round is definitely for people and high risk areas, to include physicians, nurses, respiratory therapy, environmental services, HUCs, patient transporters, interpreters, top to bottom and left to right.
> 
> We are running well ahead of schedule, I think we'll probably get everyone vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine by the end of January.
> 
> One of my colleagues, her husband is a cardiothoracic surgery fellow, he got his over at the VA, they have a much smaller list and he could get it about a week and a half sooner that way. So if you want it, getting it at UNC if you can is good. I think you can get the second one with us as long as you keep that card, I recommend taking a picture of the card because the picture will suffice if you lose the card.


What process is your place of work using to verify that people claiming to fall into Phase 1b or Phase 1c/2 (severe and moderate health risk categories) actually do fit into these vaccination tiers on medical grounds? 

Anyone who has been in the service (and especially those of us who worked in health care or had to deal with medical discharges or service-related disabilities) already knows how critical that specific language in documentation was for deciding whether one resumed training, deployed, served at specific commands, or was medically separated vs. medically retired from service. 

My initial thought (and what they might have had us do when I was in) was they could run the vaccine requestor's name through their equivalent to AHLTA or CHCS and sort for age and comorbidities, or to scrub a wide swathe of records ahead of time to make patient eligibility easier to establish.  I imagine doing that for someone outside of the institution's medical database would just add to that challenge if they lacked copies of their own medical records.

I spoke with a medical provider this week, and she couldn't give me a straight answer as to whether or not their health institution is even using medical records to confirm a patient's eligibility to get vaccinated during those phases' open periods, much less what exactly they would be looking for in them to determine it (medical documentation and numbers clearly indicating undiagnosed comorbidities vs. an official diagnosis at the time of request, etc.).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 19, 2020)

So there's a new strain out there...

Boris Johnson backtracks on relaxing Christmas rules after scientists warn new Covid-19 strain spreads faster


----------



## Dame (Dec 19, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> So there's a new strain out there...
> 
> Boris Johnson backtracks on relaxing Christmas rules after scientists warn new Covid-19 strain spreads faster


Oh for Pete's sake. Just knock it off already. You cannot contain this thing with lockdowns. If you could we'd have only needed "two weeks to flatten the curve."


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 19, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> What process is your place of work using to verify that people claiming to fall into Phase 1b or Phase 1c/2 (severe and moderate health risk categories) actually do fit into these vaccination tiers on medical grounds?
> 
> Anyone who has been in the service (and especially those of us who worked in health care or had to deal with medical discharges or service-related disabilities) already knows how critical that specific language in documentation was for deciding whether one resumed training, deployed, served at specific commands, or was medically separated vs. medically retired from service.
> 
> ...



Our lists are solely designed around where they work in relation to being a in a high risk environment.  Their medical histories, age, or comorbidities do not factor the equation. They can certainly volunteer that information, but HIPAA and employee law prohibits us from accessing that information without their permission.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 19, 2020)

The post I made above regarding that 6th dose in the vial? Yeah, in the opening paragraph below, the "healthcare workers" were me and my colleague lol.  

A COVID-19 vaccine gets a little bit extra


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Our lists are solely designed around where they work in relation to being a in a high risk environment.  Their medical histories, age, or comorbidities do not factor the equation. They can certainly volunteer that information, but HIPAA and employee law prohibits us from accessing that information without their permission.


Right, and based on what you said about age, comorbidity, and medical histories not factoring into those lists, you seem to be referring to determinations made for people who qualify as HCWs, first responders, essential workers, and LTCF residents and staff (mostly Phase 1a, with variations depending on jurisdictional definitions).

I'm asking what process, if any, your health institution has in place for confirming the eligibility of people in the phases of vaccine distribution where the presence of comorbidities *do* factor into the eligibility equation, and what specific information (volunteered or not) your institution will require to confirm their eligibility to receive a vaccine on medical grounds during those phases.

Specifically I'm referring to people eligible for medical reasons in *Phases 1b* *and 2 *of the graphic below (I'm aware the graphic doesn't represent every state's rendition of this general phasing approach):


----------



## Brill (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> The post I made above regarding that 6th dose in the vial? Yeah, in the opening paragraph below, the "healthcare workers" were me and my colleague lol.
> 
> A COVID-19 vaccine gets a little bit extra


Add some powdered sugar and a bit of baking soda to make a little go a long way. That’s what they do with another injectable.  Assuming the vax requires preheating with a spoon too.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 19, 2020)

lindy said:


> Add some powdered sugar and a bit of baking soda to make a little go a long way. That’s what they do with another injectable.  Assuming the vax requires preheating with a spoon too.



Fuck, I had not thought of that. Hey, if it works I'll give you total credit.  And split the profit.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 19, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Right, and based on what you said about age, comorbidity, and medical histories not factoring into those lists, you seem to be referring to determinations made for people who qualify as HCWs, first responders, essential workers, and LTCF residents and staff (mostly Phase 1a, with variations depending on jurisdictional definitions).
> 
> I'm asking what process, if any, your health institution has in place for confirming the eligibility of people in the phases of vaccine distribution where the presence of comorbidities *do* factor into the eligibility equation, and what specific information (volunteered or not) your institution will require to confirm their eligibility to receive a vaccine on medical grounds during those phases.
> 
> ...



Okay, I think I'm tracking.  Currently it's specific to job and location, as you recognize.

When it comes to others inside of our healthcare system (patients) we will be able to scrub their electronic medical record using a keyword search to find high risk candidates.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 19, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Right, and based on what you said about age, comorbidity, and medical histories not factoring into those lists, you seem to be referring to determinations made for people who qualify as HCWs, first responders, essential workers, and LTCF residents and staff (mostly Phase 1a, with variations depending on jurisdictional definitions).
> 
> I'm asking what process, if any, your health institution has in place for confirming the eligibility of people in the phases of vaccine distribution where the presence of comorbidities *do* factor into the eligibility equation, and what specific information (volunteered or not) your institution will require to confirm their eligibility to receive a vaccine on medical grounds during those phases.
> 
> ...



That's not really the job of a Hospital to prescribe.  That's the job of a Primary Care Provider/General Practicioner to have a conversation with their patients and prescribe an inoculation.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 19, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Okay, I think I'm tracking.  Currently it's specific to job and location, as you recognize.
> 
> When it comes to others inside of our healthcare system (patients) we will be able to scrub their electronic medical record using a keyword search to find high risk candidates.


This is very helpful, and what I had suspected.  Thanks.

I've been encouraging those I know (at least those not averse to getting the vaccine) to make sure their medical documentation is up to date in order to be properly recognized for their higher risk factors as the vaccine phasing continues, as they never know what those few months' difference could make in terms of getting struck out from it.

The vets among those I'm encouraging tend to be more reluctant to get anything diagnosed on their records (I'm gonna stay worldwide deployable for 1st CivDiv too, damnit!), so the keyword thing helps explain why not continuing to skate around a diagnosis is important here (and in general).


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340675082922897410

Have to say I agree. The NBC SNL studio is 100% a non-essential business. They also during several periods during this whole thing, I don't even know what to call it since NY has had multiple lockdowns had live audiences while they broadcasted/recorded. In masks, but definitely not socially distanced. 

I probably wouldn't care if they weren't being dickish to the majority of the population in their sketches, but he I don't catch them live and only in clips.  But generally it's not funny for most people.  BUT.  I wouldn't have this opinion if say the studio was in Florida where it is OPEN.  No, it's in New York where most of the place is closed and everyone is doing remote work.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340675082922897410
> 
> Have to say I agree. The NBC SNL studio is 100% a non-essential business.


That's a state-dependent definition, and you'll have to check New York's on your own to see if they're considered an essential business or not.  Same goes for the Mets, Yankees, or any other sports teams playing in New York.

As I understand it, earlier in the year a bunch of film unions got together with health experts and epidemiologists and drafted a set of much stricter workplace guidelines (required testing of all crew members, closed sets, specific interaction protocols, etc.) recommended for opening up the film industry, then sent them to different state governments (including NY and LA) before getting approval to resume work under those more stringent standards.

This is the reason for Cruise's well-justified meltdown on the M:I 7 set.


ThunderHorse said:


> But generally it's not funny for most people.


They wouldn't still be in business for you to complain about if this were at all accurate - much less during a pandemic.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That's a state-dependent definition, and you'll have to check New York's on your own to see if they're considered an essential business or not.  Same goes for the Mets, Yankees, or any other sports teams playing in New York.
> 
> As I understand it, earlier in the year a bunch of film unions got together with health experts and epidemiologists and drafted a set of much stricter workplace guidelines (required testing of all crew members, closed sets, specific interaction protocols, etc.) recommended for opening up the film industry, then sent them to different state governments (including NY and LA) before getting approval to resume work under those more stringent standards.
> 
> ...


There is nothing safe about SNL if there is nothing safe about working in investment banking environment.  I know many folks in New York that haven't been in their office since March.  Don't make a sports commentator social distance if you don't make SNL people social distance.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

Weren't you the guy banging on about mental health? You don't think a comedy show might help alleviate that?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Weren't you the guy banging on about mental health? You don't think a comedy show might help alleviate that?



Two missing pieces of context that I wrote that plays into why it's wrong.  Location of Studio + Audience in the crowd for many episodes while most of New York City hasn't been allowed to go back to work in their offices.  

Contrast this to Mr Olympia in Florida this weekend.  Florida is open, the event had crowds.  

So with the qualifiers I had in what I wrote, my opinion would be different if SNL was being filmed in Florida and not New York.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 20, 2020)

Well fuck.  The spread is with private gatherings, so let's shut everything down during the holidays; forcing people into private gatherings. 

All regions in Ontario to enter lockdown starting Christmas Eve: source - CityNews Toronto


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Two missing pieces of context that I wrote that plays into why it's wrong.  Location of Studio + Audience in the crowd for many episodes while most of New York City hasn't been allowed to go back to work in their offices.
> 
> Contrast this to Mr Olympia in Florida this weekend.  Florida is open, the event had crowds.
> 
> So with the qualifiers I had in what I wrote, my opinion would be different if SNL was being filmed in Florida and not New York.



I think your qualifiers are naff. As Locksteady said, these guys are under a much more strict protocol. I think you're being critical for the sake of it for whatever reason that might be.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

I significantly doubt their protocols come anywhere near what the NFL or NBA has instituted. 

But hey, lockdowns are bullshit and we're continuing to destroy our economy and our lives.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

You doubt or you know? Because when someone says "I doubt" it usually means they're operating from their gut feeling and not from any kind of actual knowledge.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

@Devildoc you seeing any of this?

Coronavirus vaccine: Wealthy patients in Southern California offering top dollar to cut in line


----------



## Dame (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> @Devildoc you seeing any of this?
> 
> Coronavirus vaccine: Wealthy patients in Southern California offering top dollar to cut in line


LOL. They are probably using the "extra dose that doctor found might find it's way into my ass" reasoning.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 20, 2020)

Looks like 28 day's starting midnight Christmas Eve.  Thankfully, elementary school is only an extra week, asymmetric learning.  My parents and sister were coming on Boxing Day, the kid's have seen them maybe twice this year.  My paranoid sister will probably stay home but my parents might come.  

Ontario planning to implement provincewide lockdown, including school closures: sources


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Two missing pieces of context that I wrote that plays into why it's wrong.  Location of Studio + Audience in the crowd for many episodes while most of New York City hasn't been allowed to go back to work in their offices.


Can you tell us what protocol are being used for their studio audiences, or are you - as @SpitfireV suggested - doubting without knowing?


ThunderHorse said:


> I significantly doubt their protocols come anywhere near what the NFL or NBA has instituted.


Do you even know what they are as compared to those of the tv/film industry (understand that a myriad of films and tv shows (Supernatural, for example) that have provided countless hours of psychological relief for the home-ridden masses - and many on this board - resumed filming due to these permissions)?
If no, do you think your doubt might be lodged in a bias against SNL vs other forms of non-essential entertainment like the NFL or NBA?


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> non-essential entertainment like the NFL



How dare you!!!


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> How dare you!!!


Very fair play.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> @Devildoc you seeing any of this?
> 
> Coronavirus vaccine: Wealthy patients in Southern California offering top dollar to cut in line



No I haven't, ours is tightly controlled. But damn, for the right price I can pocket a couple of those vials.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> How dare you!!!


He didn't mention the NHL which is probably more essential than life itself.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Can you tell us what protocol are being used for their studio audiences, or are you - as @SpitfireV suggested - doubting without knowing?
> 
> Do you even know what they are as compared to those of the tv/film industry (understand that a myriad of films and tv shows (Supernatural, for example) that have provided countless hours of psychological relief for the home-ridden masses - and many on this board - resumed filming due to these permissions)?
> If no, do you think your doubt might be lodged in a bias against SNL vs other forms of non-essential entertainment like the NFL or NBA?



Audiences at NFL games have to wears masks and be socially distanced.  Audiences at SNL were indoors and not socially distanced.  Pretty simple dude.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> He didn't mention the NHL which is probably more essential than life itself.



Silly wanna be Australian


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Audiences at NFL games have to wears masks and be socially distanced.  *Audiences at SNL were indoors and not socially distanced*.  Pretty simple dude.


Show us.


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 20, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Silly wanna be Australian



On the list you go... 

But don't worry we'll probably both be dead before I get that far down it.


----------



## Dame (Dec 20, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> On the list you go...
> 
> But don't worry we'll probably both be dead before I get that far down it.


Good thing. I've already sworn an oath to protect and defend @Kaldak .



Don't ask.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 20, 2020)

Dame said:


> Good thing. I've already sworn an oath to protect and defend @Kaldak .
> 
> 
> 
> Don't ask.



She has...so, be warned!


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Show us.



How about paying them to circumvent the rules? 

Saturday Night Live Paid Audience Members to Attend the Season Premiere


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 20, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Show us.



First ten seconds:


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> How about paying them to circumvent the rules?
> 
> Saturday Night Live Paid Audience Members to Attend the Season Premiere


Paying a limited number of people who want to be there to follow the even stricter guidelines of crew members, which include getting tested and remaining masked throughout (obvious exceptions for cast live filming on stage)?

Absolutely.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 20, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> First ten seconds:


Thank you, this is helpful, and good evidence to support one part of your claim (the lack of social distancing).

The key mitigating factor there is that every single one of them, like each crew member, had to be tested before being permitted to watch the show.


----------



## Brill (Dec 21, 2020)

Asymptotic spread? Hold up a sec. Will this change anything or is there just too much ($900 billion) invested?

Asymptomatic Spread Revisited



> Stringent COVID-19 control measures were imposed in Wuhan between January 23 and April 8, 2020. Estimates of the prevalence of infection following the release of restrictions could inform post-lockdown pandemic management. Here, we describe a city-wide SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening programme between May 14 and June 1, 2020 in Wuhan. All city residents aged six years or older were eligible and 9,899,828 (92.9%) participated.
> 
> No new symptomatic cases and 300 asymptomatic cases (detection rate 0.303/10,000, 95% CI 0.270–0.339/10,000) were identified. *There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases. *107 of 34,424 previously recovered COVID-19 patients tested positive again (re-positive rate 0.31%, 95% CI 0.423–0.574%). The prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in Wuhan was therefore very low five to eight weeks after the end of lockdown.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 21, 2020)

Whether or not something is legal or illegal is often not the significant issue, but merely the matter of impropriety. People are literally dying, killing themselves because their businesses are failing but The entertainment industry seems to truck along. Yeah, the messaging sucks.


----------



## AWP (Dec 21, 2020)

Having just flown from the UAE to the US, I have some unsavory thoughts on the topic which I'll type up sometime soon. Short version: I see why the US has a problem with CV-19.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 21, 2020)

lindy said:


> Asymptotic spread? Hold up a sec. Will this change anything or is there just too much ($900 billion) invested?
> 
> Asymptomatic Spread Revisited



Generally speaking we've know that asymptomatic cases make 80-90% of the positive tests, we're testing completely "healthy" people.  Their symptoms?  A Bad Cold.  So we are crushing ourselves for something that is not affecting the majority of the population.  If anything moving to voluntary and non-prescribed testing has been one of the dumber decisions world governments have made.

What's the major co-morbidity that makes someone sick? Obesity. Which is an epidemic that creates the path to Heart Disease which kills the most people of any cause every year.

And we went from "Hey, get active, being active is good for you" to "stay home completely, no seeing your loved ones."

Governor Howard Dean, M.D., the one time Iowa Caucus 3rd Place Winner who went on a yelling rampage in that concession speech had great thoughts on shifting the Medical Model in the United States. We're still on a sickness model, where we treat sickness and not really promote wellness. This would be a significant shift in how PCPs did things I believe.

Is someone who is obese going to take their doctor serious about the advice to lose weight and clean their shit up if their PCP is also obese?

The best part is I know obese people who go: "No I'm completely Healthy, just had my physical and all my labs were great."  

That's kind of a tangent, but 60% of the population is severely overweight in the US.

__________________

ETA: I like literally despise the NYT, mostly because the woke artists get in the way of their real journalists, but they have some amazing investigative journos still working there. Chapeau to these folks!

No ‘Negative’ News: How China Censored the Coronavirus


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 21, 2020)

What a surreal day.  We are approaching 1600 or so vaccinated, probably have had fewer than 10 people with reactions, all of whom were fine.

The governor came through a couple hours ago, my boss looking daggers at me, she had already asked me to keep my mouth shut. So I told her as a Christmas present to her I would keep my mouth shut, so I did.

His brief visit in my particular area lasted about 5 minutes, and was benign enough.

In other news, our ICU beds are starting to fill alarmingly fast, we're not getting people out of the beds at the rate in which we are filling them. For the first time since this thing started we are concerned that we are going to run out of beds.


----------



## Florida173 (Dec 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> In other news, our ICU beds are starting to fill alarmingly fast, we're not getting people out of the beds at the rate in which we are filling them. For the first time since this thing started we are concerned that we are going to run out of beds.



How much are you seeing the DHS/FEMA response to allocating resources. When I was working a bit of the data analytics side, we never really saw any areas in need that weren't at least adjacent to other areas that could provide support. The exception being the NYC/NJ. I no longer have access to the COP


----------



## Dvr55119 (Dec 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> How much are you seeing the DHS/FEMA response to allocating resources. When I was working a bit of the data analytics side, we never really saw any areas in need that weren't at least adjacent to other areas that could provide support. The exception being the NYC/NJ. I no longer have access to the COP



I can’t speak as well as @Devildoc can because I don’t see Dukes info, but UNC and their assorted system is filling up rapidly. Duke has what I would consider a significant capability to increase bed size due to a new building, but the other local systems do not. Further bed numbers aren’t even relevant if they cannot be competently staffed. That means Doctors, midlevels and nurses that are competent in taking care of complex ICU patients. These people do not grow on trees, and unless something has changed, Duke and the localities here are not competitive in travel nurse pay with places like the Midwest currently.

I have been saying from the beginning, you don’t want to be treated on a ventilator by a floor nurse, and an OBGYN resident.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> How much are you seeing the DHS/FEMA response to allocating resources. When I was working a bit of the data analytics side, we never really saw any areas in need that weren't at least adjacent to other areas that could provide support. The exception being the NYC/NJ. I no longer have access to the COP



That is a good question. Our institution is so big, We have a lot of flexibility and being able to expand ICU resources, to a point. Our next stop would be the state, we could set up a SMAT capability, there's also some creative room with redesigning rooms and other buildings as general patient wards in order to offload our ICUs into hospital beds to make room. We are still a long way from having to have the feds intervene.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 21, 2020)

Florida173 said:


> How much are you seeing the DHS/FEMA response to allocating resources. When I was working a bit of the data analytics side, we never really saw any areas in need that weren't at least adjacent to other areas that could provide support. The exception being the NYC/NJ. I no longer have access to the COP


The vast majority of the field hospitals that were deployed because doctors decided to kill people.  I literally look at it that way.  We have anecdotal evidence from @Muppet earlier.


Muppet said:


> First round, in Philly and surrounding counties, field hospitals were set up BY DMATS and guard. They were hardly used. In Philly, a large gym owned by Temple University that has its level 1 shock trauma/knife and gun club, opened it to rona. Only 1 pt was admitted there.
> 
> I know of at least 1 emergency doc, whom I respect that freely admitted, "I discharged covid pts to nursing homes instead of these surge facilities based on optics. What would it look like if I admitted granny to a military hospital cot?".
> 
> ...



We deployed hospital ships to LA and New York. Multiple CASH units all over the country only to have them go unutilized because of the "optics" as Muppet wrote of having someone sleep on a cot. So elderly patients all over the country were discharged and sent back to their nursing/retirement homes where governors like Cuomo forced those facilities to take their residents back even though they were infected with a highly contagious and pretty deadly [for elderly patients] virus. I know people who deployed with reserve CSH units to help support highly impacted areas that never saw a patient.

For example, 627th AHC deployed, stood up, and left after three days.

CenturyLink field hospital to be dismantled, sent to state with greater need

USNS Mercy had to unass itself from a refit to go do work in LA, it did some, but much. It returned to SD pretty rapidly. 

USNS Mercy Hospital Ship Returns to San Diego

USNS Comfort was also barely used.

Hospital Ship USNS Comfort to Return to Virginia – gCaptain


----------



## Florida173 (Dec 21, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> The vast majority of the field hospitals that were deployed because doctors decided to kill people.  I literally look at it that way.  We have anecdotal evidence from @Muppet earlier.
> 
> 
> We deployed hospital ships to LA and New York. Multiple CASH units all over the country only to have them go unutilized because of the "optics" as Muppet wrote of having someone sleep on a cot. So elderly patients all over the country were discharged and sent back to their nursing/retirement homes where governors like Cuomo forced those facilities to take their residents back even though they were infected with a highly contagious and pretty deadly [for elderly patients] virus. I know people who deployed with reserve CSH units to help support highly impacted areas that never saw a patient.
> ...



I don't really think it's related though. What I am talking about is more than just a poorly executed military response to governors crying for support and likely just trying to make the President look bad in not responding. I'm talking about the coordinated DHS/FEMA federal response where the military is only one aspect within a menu of options from Emergency Support Function 13.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 21, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> That is a good question. Our institution is so big, We have a lot of flexibility and being able to expand ICU resources, to a point. Our next stop would be the state, we could set up a SMAT capability, there's also some creative room with redesigning rooms and other buildings as general patient wards in order to offload our ICUs into hospital beds to make room. We are still a long way from having to have the feds intervene.



What are you hearing re the new improved mutated version now hitting the UK?


----------



## Brill (Dec 21, 2020)

@Devildoc , are you all testing for antibodies before vaccination?


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 21, 2020)

Full lockdown, Boxing Day until Jan 23rd. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-ontario-december-21-lockdown-orders-1.5849760


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 21, 2020)

lindy said:


> @Devildoc , are you all testing for antibodies before vaccination?



No....


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 21, 2020)

Canadian military deployed to remote communities to "fight" covid.  I've been to some of these communities, this time of year and slept in tents; it was a good time.  This on the other hand, does not sound like a good time.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...e-deployments-1.5625286?__vfz=medium=sharebar


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

I don't necessarily agree with the dude's approach, but the coming in hot comment is on point; the dude is fired up.

Right or wrong, almost certainly much more wrong, I still got a chuckle out of it.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340755163359932417


----------



## Dame (Dec 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't necessarily agree with the dude's approach, but the coming in hot comment is on point; the dude is fired up.
> 
> Right or wrong, almost certainly much more wrong, I still got a chuckle out of it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340755163359932417


Yeah, definitely being an asshole about it. But it made me shake my head and smile that he did it, and with no incident from security.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> I don't necessarily agree with the dude's approach, but the coming in hot comment is on point; the dude is fired up.
> 
> Right or wrong, almost certainly much more wrong, I still got a chuckle out of it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340755163359932417



He has a point!

There's reports of ICU bed capacity being at zero in So Cal right now.  

What public health leaders mean by ‘0% ICU beds available’

They're saying it's an explosion of COVID patients...no, it's not.  OC Register did a good job of getting to the bottom of it, seeing way too many idiots share the headline of "Zero ICU beds in SoCal".


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> He has a point!
> 
> There's reports of ICU bed capacity being at zero in So Cal right now.
> 
> ...



Our ICU's are almost always full, even without COVID.  Really, it's not much different than a hotel with empty rooms, it's not making any money.  There is a magical formula that gets calculated every day regarding bed capacity, and the bigger the hospital, the more surge capacity and flexibility they have with manipulating the formula.  

Now, that's not to say we have not had an explosion in patients with COVID, even those admitted to the ICU, because we have.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

Play stupid games....

Family of U.S. Student Jailed for Quarantine Violation Pleads for Her Release


----------



## Steve1839 (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Play stupid games....
> 
> Family of U.S. Student Jailed for Quarantine Violation Pleads for Her Release


Yeah, but it isn't dumber than this...this is one hard up MF'er...
Covid: Man jailed for Scotland-Isle of Man water scooter crossing - BBC News


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Play stupid games....
> 
> Family of U.S. Student Jailed for Quarantine Violation Pleads for Her Release



The stupid games will be the IRS fucking all the Cayman shell company bank accounts.  Fine her, ban her, four months?  Fuck that shit, send in the Marines.  Definitely serious about that.



Steve1839 said:


> Yeah, but it isn't dumber than this...this is one hard up MF'er...
> Covid: Man jailed for Scotland-Isle of Man water scooter crossing - BBC News



Isle of Man, guy is literally a citizen of the same country. (Yes, I know Isle of Man is a Crown Dependency and has their own passport blah blah blah)

Reading UK twitter right now you have people clamoring for border walls between counties and destroying freedom of movement.  WILD.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

@ThunderHorse -
Disagree because knowing no more than what the story shows, she is just another entitled American who feels that the rules don’t really apply to her.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> @ThunderHorse -
> Disagree because knowing no more than what the story shows, she is just another entitled American who feels that the rules don’t really apply to her.



I wouldn't say she's an entitled "American".  She may be an "entitled" person.  But being American has little to do with that, and I'll stick by that.  I've had many foreigners in front of me act entitled and their shit doesn't stink.  The feeling of "entitlement" is not an uniquely American disease.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> She may be an "entitled" person. But being American has little to do with that,


I’ll give you that. 

That said, I still have no problem with the sentence.


----------



## racing_kitty (Dec 22, 2020)

Per the AP, Dr Birx will be retiring, due to the flak received from dismissing her own recommendations against travel during the Thanksgiving holiday.

She should have thought about that sooner.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 22, 2020)

Regarding the American, I think punishment is deserved. I think what I would do is fine the shit out of her, give her a massive sentence to get headlines around the world (to show there are consequences, and that we’re not playing), and then the day after Christmas release her on “compassionate grounds” or on appeal or some such.   I don’t think anyone’s interest are served by lengthy sentences over something like this. 

So ultimately it’s token jail time (but you spend Christmas in the slammer). But that big ass fine?  Yeah we’re keeping that. Being stupid SHOULD hurt.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> Yeah, but it isn't dumber than this...this is one hard up MF'er...
> Covid: Man jailed for Scotland-Isle of Man water scooter crossing - BBC News


4 1/2 hours on a jet ski?  Did he have an auxiliary gas tank?  That's a long time to spend on a jet ski...she must be amazing.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 22, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> 4 1/2 hours on a jet ski?  Did he have N auxiliary gas tank?  That's a long time to spend on a jet ski...she must be amazing.


I had a similar thought.  They seems like a LONG time to be on a jet ski.  Do those things have massive fuel economy or something?


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> Regarding the American, I think punishment is deserved. I think what I would do is fine the shit out of her, give her a massive sentence to get headlines around the world (to show there are consequences, and that we’re not playing), and then the day after Christmas release her on “compassionate grounds” or on appeal or some such.   I don’t think anyone’s interest are served by lengthy sentences over something like this.
> 
> So ultimately it’s token jail time (but you spend Christmas in the slammer). But that big ass fine?  Yeah we’re keeping that. Being stupid SHOULD hurt.


I don't know.  I disagree on the punishment.

We're all probably in agreement she's entitled and broke the rules.  But, in my view, so much of this response is overblown and the heavy handedness is governments is problematic. 

Keep in mind, this is a virus with a 99% survival rate - even higher the younger you are.  It's hardly this death sentence that many drama queens make it out to be.  So, months in prison and/or massive fines really does seem out of line.  Sure, there must be consequences to decisions, but they also must be reasonable.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> I had a similar thought.  They seems like a LONG time to be on a jet ski.  Do those things have massive fuel economy or something?


Well, especially if he thought it was only going to be a 40min hop.  So, it sounds like he wasn't all that prepared.  To me, this is the real story! 🤣

Edit: Also interesting that jet skis were central topics in both stories.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

In terms of reach, the takeaway from this story is that the virus won't be controlled by lockdowns, etc.:
With first positive tests in Antarctica, no continent is untouched by the virus.

So, the next question is, and it brings us full circle again, when will the world recognize and hold China accountable for the massive devastation it's caused?


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

I don't follow the logic in your first paragraph mate.


----------



## digrar (Dec 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I wouldn't say she's an entitled "American".  She may be an "entitled" person.  But being American has little to do with that, and I'll stick by that.



Outside looking in, the perception, the stereotype of an an entitled person is American, millennial, female. The reality, chances are they're Chinese, but out in the world, the comments are, what are those Americans doing now?


Blizzard said:


> 4 1/2 hours on a jet ski?  Did he have an auxiliary gas tank?  That's a long time to spend on a jet ski...she must be amazing.



Not unusual to see them fitted with racks with spare fuel jerries and or auxiliary tanks.


Blizzard said:


> In terms of reach, the takeaway from this story is that the virus won't be controlled by lockdowns, etc.:
> With first positive tests in Antarctica, no continent is untouched by the virus.
> 
> So, the next question is, and it brings us full circle again, when will the world recognize and hold China accountable for the massive devastation it's caused?



Lock downs are an after the fact control measure, and with broad community buy in and discipline, they work, Melbourne just demonstrated that. Is the squeeze worth the juice? Opinions vary. My take away is that Chile have shit protocols for getting people to site.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

digrar said:


> Lock downs are an after the fact control measure, and with broad community buy in and discipline, they work, Melbourne just demonstrated that. Is the squeeze worth the juice? Opinions vary. My take away is that Chile have shit protocols for getting people to site.


They don't work (it's been discussed several times throughout this thread as to why) and the article I posted and even New Zealand serve as proof.  How many times has New Zealand declared they've stomped out the virus now?  Twice?  Only to have it return.  This despite having the advantage of a relatively small, isolated population (similar in size to OR or KY). The virus doesn't magically disappear.  Logistically, you cannot lockdown a modern society because there's always need for healthcare, first responders, etc.  So, that's not feasible.  In this case, even a small set of researchers proved vulnerable.

But you do ask the important question - is the juice worth the squeeze?  We have a pretty obvious answer here as well. When considering the secondary and tertiary order impacts of a virus with 99% survival rate, the answer is clearly "no".  Look at the economics and the key impacted demographics.

This was posted earlier but I'll repost again.  The first few minutes of the clip explains why lockdowns don't work (note: the video is from April and what he explains has generally proven out:
Dr. David Katz | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) - YouTube


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

Eh you've massively misunderstood our context here mate. It was one nationwide lockdown and then a limited regional one and guess what? They both worked and the one outbreak was constrained quickly. And the GDP is up too despite it all. 

Was it the best approach? I don't know. It's worked so far. Will it work again? Maybe maybe not.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 22, 2020)

“Fair” is where you buy a pig in August.  I feel this woman’s frustration, the government double standard is everywhere.

The video in the story is worth a watch too....

Restaurants' anger over outdoor dining bans reaches a boiling point


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 22, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> “Fair” is where you buy a pig in August.  I feel this woman’s frustration, the government double standard is everywhere.
> 
> The video in the story is worth a watch too....
> 
> Restaurants' anger over outdoor dining bans reaches a boiling point


I think @Blizzard posted a clip of the video in your link sometime earlier in this thread.

While the basis of the 'double standard' in terms of film crews vs. restaurants is that the former are held to much stricter industry-wide requirements than the latter, I think restaurants and other businesses should have the opportunity to do the same if they're willing and can demonstrate they're enforcing an equivalent protocol for their specific business.

However I think the service industry in general would still have more challenges to executing that successfully, even if it followed film & tv's example by having industry unions work together, just due to the much more public-facing nature of its daily revenue stream.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> I think @Blizzard posted a clip of the video in your link sometime earlier in this thread.
> 
> While the basis of the 'double standard' in terms of film crews vs. restaurants is that the former are held to much stricter industry-wide requirements than the latter, I think restaurants and other businesses should have the opportunity to do the same if they're willing and can demonstrate they're enforcing an equivalent protocol for their specific business.
> 
> However I think the service industry in general would still have more challenges to executing that successfully, even if it followed film & tv's example by having industry unions work together, just due to the much more public-facing nature of its daily revenue stream.



It wasn't a film crew. It was an outdoor "movie event" where people bought tickets.  In another time the mayor of LA would have been yanked from his office by the people and tarred and feathered.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 22, 2020)

$600


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 22, 2020)

SpitfireV said:


> Eh you've massively misunderstood our context here mate. It was one nationwide lockdown and then a limited regional one and guess what? They both worked and the one outbreak was constrained quickly. And the GDP is up too despite it all.
> 
> Was it the best approach? I don't know. It's worked so far. Will it work again? Maybe maybe not.


Perhaps.  You're livin' it, brother, so I'm not going to pretend to know what's taking place there better than you.  This article from Oct. summarizes much of my understanding as well (see, I read up about you guys...and you think we don't care. ) as the fact there are still new cases being reported.  Again, NZ is very small and so are their numbers, so that needs to be kept in perspective.

New Zealand Stamps Out the Coronavirus. For a Second Time. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


----------



## SpitfireV (Dec 22, 2020)

The new numbers being reported are in the isolation facilities where returning Kiwis (mostly) are placed for quarantine. They're not in the community.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 22, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> It wasn't a film crew.



Celebrities offer support after owner posts video of film set next to her closed restaurant


> A restaurant in Los Angeles has received a ton of public support after its owner posted a video revealing that a *film crew dining area* was set up right next door to the outdoor seating area of her business





> In the video shared on Friday, Angela Marsden, the owner of Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill located in Sherman Oaks, points out a large designated *eating area for a film crew* just a few feet away from where she set up her restaurant's outdoor dining space.





> The outdoor dining area next to Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill was set up by a catering company hired to service the *film crew* of the NBC sitcom _Good Girls_, according to the _New York Times_. The catering site and film location were both given permission to operate under a permit issued by the city.



'A slap in my face': LA restaurant owner's video showing a film shoot's catering tent set up next to her closed eatery explodes on social media


> Angela Marsden made a video over the weekend showing a *film crew set up next to her closed restaurant* in Los Angeles.





> A video from a restaurant owner in Los Angeles who was forced to end outdoor dining while a *film crew* *set up catering next door* was shared widely online, illustrating why many are taking issue with the city's strict pandemic measures.



She Couldn’t Open for Outdoor Dining. The Film Crew Next Door Could.


> The controversy came to a head on Saturday when a restaurant owner shared a video on social media showing tents, tables and chairs *set up as a catering station for a film crew* — just feet away from her eatery’s similar outdoor dining space, which has sat empty since the restriction went into effect late last month.





> “Tell me that this is dangerous, but right next to me — as a slap in my face — that’s safe?” Angela Marsden, who owns the restaurant, Pineapple Hill Saloon & Grill, said as the video panned from her outdoor dining space to the *film crew’s catering site*.





> *The catering site was for a crew filming* “Good Girls,” a comedy television show that airs on NBC, according to Philip Sokoloski, a spokesman for FilmLA, which helps Los Angeles manage film permits.





> The county health department noted in a statement that *film crews are regularly tested for the virus* and that, unlike at restaurants, people do not mingle for “extended periods of time without their face covering.” Audiences are not allowed at film sites under the county’s guidelines.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 22, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Celebrities offer support after owner posts video of film set next to her closed restaurant



That's helpful, was struggling finding more stuff. However, it's still bullshit. You stop someone from making money, you better compensate them for it.

And that "film crew dining area" was massive. How big was the crew? An army battalion?


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> That's helpful, was struggling finding more stuff. However, it's still bullshit. You stop someone from making money, you better compensate them for it.


I understand why and think similar opportunities should exist for the service industry, but I also get your general sentiment.


ThunderHorse said:


> And that "film crew dining area" was massive. How big was the crew? An army battalion?


Well, it's hard to blame a whole battalion of people for joining the crew when this is your show's headliner:

No

covid thread...not this.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 23, 2020)

- Update -

Georgia college student who broke Cayman Islands' quarantine receives reduced sentence

Glad she learned her lesson.  🙄


----------



## Gunz (Dec 23, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> $600



Yeah, that's Taurus money. I'll wait for my Trump-Pelosi 2-grand.


----------



## Brill (Dec 23, 2020)

This Jarhead is correct, IMO.  Faucci seems to enjoy the attention.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341861523111768071


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 23, 2020)

Gunz said:


> Yeah, that's Taurus money. I'll wait for my Trump-Pelosi 2-grand.


Still not Noveske money.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 23, 2020)

Alright, 20 hours deep in enemy territory.  The National Media and even a bunch of the local stuff would make you think LA County is locked down tight.  Generally speaking, other than store capacity limits which only seem to be honored at BevMo most stores are open.  FastFood Companies have made a KILLING.  Those restaurants that pivoted hard to outdoor dining and to-go food, some are doing ok.  At least where my parents are, none of the restaurants in town re-opened their outdoor dining since the court order lifted the LA County Health Order as it pertained to shutting down outdoor dining.  Generally, base on freeway traffic?  Looked like a normal December 23rd.


----------



## AWP (Dec 23, 2020)

I spent about 4 hours at Sea World in Orlando today.
- The park claims they are limited to 30% of max capacity. Yeah, those are just words.
- SW is doing a reasonable job of social distancing.
- Masks? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!Everyone wore a mask, but quite a few had them pulled down below their nose.
- The sharks/ reef fish "tunnel" exhibit had mofos at various distances from others, but the air felt stale, like it wasn't circulating.


----------



## BloodStripe (Dec 23, 2020)

Opinion | Who Made the Vaccine Possible? Not WHO

What role is the WHO playing in a vaccination for all the funding we pump into them? 

Amazing how 10 months after the big outbreak in the US we have a vaccine, well shut of the 12 to 18 links Fauci predicted.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> I spent about 4 hours at Sea World in Orlando today.
> - The park claims they are limited to 30% of max capacity. Yeah, those are just words.
> - SW is doing a reasonable job of social distancing.
> - Masks? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!Everyone wore a mask, but quite a few had them pulled down below their nose.
> - The sharks/ reef fish "tunnel" exhibit had mofos at various distances from others, but the air felt stale, like it wasn't circulating.



You'll find the mask below the nose, is a common fashion trend; every where.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 24, 2020)

Day 2 behind enemy lines, LA County proper is pretty fucked up.  Went into the city this morning and then out to the beach to put my feet in the Pacific.  Many restaurants and small businesses did not survive the required pivot of to-go and outdoor dining.  Once That Health order in LA proper (they had a separate one on top of LA County) many of the businesses that had made the pivot to outdoor dining were barely making it.  Also, nice to see LA is even worse than it was than when I was here last year.  Kinda sad.  But my interest in the city peaked when I was in college.  It's just brutal, I don't know how anyone can even afford to live inside the city.


----------



## Brill (Dec 26, 2020)

Fear porn plain and simple.






My Grandmother, self isolated in her home alone since March, got COVID from...a visiting nurse. Nobody in my family blames her at all.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 26, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Day 2 behind enemy lines, LA County proper is pretty fucked up.  Went into the city this morning and then out to the beach to put my feet in the Pacific.  Many restaurants and small businesses did not survive the required pivot of to-go and outdoor dining.  Once That Health order in LA proper (they had a separate one on top of LA County) many of the businesses that had made the pivot to outdoor dining were barely making it.  Also, nice to see LA is even worse than it was than when I was here last year.  Kinda sad.  But my interest in the city peaked when I was in college.  It's just brutal, I don't know how anyone can even afford to live inside the city.



I haven't been there since I was stationed in San Diego and Camp Pendleton, but I find generally no redeeming value to that city. We had a nurse, she and her husband, move to North Carolina from LA 5 or 6 years ago, she sold her 900 ft² home out there for close to a million, and bought a 5,000 ft² house on 5 acres here. And still had money left over.

There are plenty of fine people in that city, I know a few people who are there, but for the most part if it fell off into the sea I wouldn't lose sleep.


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 26, 2020)

lindy said:


> Fear porn plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Couldn't watch it. Still waiting for field hospitals to be set up.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 26, 2020)

Leaving the communist empire of California.  The idiotic policies of Garcetti and Co when it comes to this airport, one of the busiest in the world.  They decide to make it so you can't eat at the aiport restaurants and if they're open you can't use the seating, it's all to go.  This effectively reduces the seating capacity of the lobby significantly and also constricts the space in the lobby where people will sit.  So you reduce the usable waiting footprint of passenger by at least 20%, possibly 30%. 

None of these rules they shit out of their posterior makes sense.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 26, 2020)

Orchard Park gym wins in court, will be allowed to open at 100% capacity

BIG legal win here and a great precedent. @ThunderHorse how you feel about this one??


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Orchard Park gym wins in court, will be allowed to open at 100% capacity
> 
> BIG legal win here and a great precedent. @ThunderHorse how you feel about this one??



Great win for the residents of Orchard Park and New Yorkers. Gyms being open at 100% capacity means more people can support their immune systems and give them a much greater chance for this virus to just feel like a "cold".  It also provides a stress outlet and supports mental health!

For people in other states, since this was not a federal court it doesn't help much. 

From a legal standing perspective, this is not legal precedent that crosses state lines. If you were in California or Washington and you brought this as part of your legal argument it falls under the Secondary Persuasive rather than a p
Primary Persuasive source.  But it should aid gym owners suits for sure.


----------



## Brill (Dec 27, 2020)

I just don’t believe “them” anymore...especially when “they” admitted they’ve lied before so we wouldn’t panic but now want us to panic more?

No.



> *Dr. Anthony Fauci* on Sunday that he *thinks the COVID-19 pandemic will get wors*e and told Americans to expect a post-holiday season “surge.”
> 
> “We very well might see a post-seasonal — in the sense of Christmas, New Years — surge or as I’ve described it, a surge upon a surge,” Fauci told CNN anchor Dana Bash on “State of the Union.”




Fauci Warns Americans That Worst Of COVID-19 Still Yet To Come


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 27, 2020)

Asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 didn’t occur at all, study of 10 million finds

Asymptomatic transmission is bullshit. 10m study.

‘No evidence’ that asymptomatic Covid-19 cases were infectious, analysis of post-lockdown Wuhan concludes
A study on infectivity of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers - PubMed

Here are two other articles I have found. Also, if you're not using DuckDuckGo, a VPN and and extension to what you're doing....


ETA- yes, I am aware that the first article is from Wuhan, I get it. Let's use it as a jumping off point.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 didn’t occur at all, study of 10 million finds
> 
> Asymptomatic transmission is bullshit. 10m study.
> 
> ...


As a general statement, actual data based evidence to support many government actions/responses to the virus simply doesn't exist. This seems to further emphasize that point.

Meanwhile, 9+ months into this thing, what real protections have been implemented for high risk populations, particularly those in long-term care facilities and those over age 70? 

The following data is nearly a month old but it still pretty clearly illustrates where the greatest risk truly lies (and this doesn't even get at comorbidities and other risk factors):


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 27, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> As a general statement, actual data based evidence to support many government actions/responses to the virus simply doesn't exist. This seems to further emphasize that point.
> 
> Meanwhile, 9+ months into this thing, what real protections have been implemented for high risk populations, particularly those in long-term care facilities and those over age 70?
> 
> The following data is nearly a month old but it still pretty clearly illustrates where the greatest risk truly lies:


Your font is HUGE. I am telling @Ooh-Rah


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 27, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Your font is HUGE. I am telling @Ooh-Rah


Oh shit.  Sorry.  Posting on my phone.  I'll see if I can fix it.

Edit: Ran out of time for my edit.  Mea culpa @Ooh-Rah


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Oh shit.  Sorry.  Posting on my phone.  I'll see if I can fix it.
> 
> Edit: Ran out of time for my edit.  Mea culpa @Ooh-Rah


hahahahahahha yesssssssss.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 28, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> hahahahahahha yesssssssss.


Fuckin snitch... 🤣


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 28, 2020)

Blizzard said:


> Fuckin snitch... 🤣


I even tagged him.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 28, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I even tagged him.


I know...me too...🤣

I'll patiently await my beatdown tomorrow.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 28, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> Asymptomatic transmission is bullshit.


That is not at all what the researchers concluded.

British Medical Journal


> *The researchers said that* *their findings* *did not show that the virus couldn’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers, and they didn’t suggest that their findings were generalisable.*



Science Daily


> But *the research team warn that their findings do not show that the virus can't be passed on by asymptomatic carriers.*
> 
> Rather, strict non-pharmaceutical interventions such as mask-wearing, hand washing, social distancing and lockdown have helped reduce the virulence of Covid-19.



On top of that, the actual study itself even referenced other studies that the authors say showed that asymptomatic carriers of COVID-19 were infectious.

It should also be noted that the link you led with came from a site calling itself “the #1 pro-life news website” and which has a record of posting misleading stories about COVID-19 studies. Their apparent lean towards discounting the severity of COVID-19 may help explain why the same author used language (the study “debunked the concept of asymptomatic transmission”) that completely mischaracterized the research findings in this study, too.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 28, 2020)

NSFW




@amlove21
@Blizzard


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 28, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> That is not at all what the researchers concluded.
> 
> British Medical Journal
> 
> ...


I didn’t say that’s what the links or studies concluded. I said asymptomatic spread is bullshit.

How many times in a row is this where you hop up out the woodwork on some ‘ackshually’ type nonsense with what I post, only to be pretty clearly not understanding square one? Like, 4? At least this time it wasn’t trying to play gotcha games on the date of a satirical video. 🙄

This is gonna sound crazy... but maybe you should start reading things that are posted and not just responding from your plainly indoctrinated position off of keywords alone?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 28, 2020)

Our people have kind of figured that, but to my knowledge we haven't done any research on it, right now it's still such low priority. But we have been thinking that asymptomatic transmission was crap even if we did not have the literature to support.

Also, regarding fatalities, the other thing we need to be concerned of is long-term sequelae with regards to challenging disease processes, for instance we are seeing more children come in with COVID-related inflammatory syndromes, it's not killing them, but it's putting them in intensive care and on echo. Who knows how these people are going to turn out?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 28, 2020)

The worst part for me are these people I know that are in Pharmacy School, not even med school, but I know a few of those. Like, dude/chica. I don't follow you for you to pound me with first year pharm school I'm an expert on this virus bullshit. You're not even close to one. 

The fallacy of expertise. I've literally watched Public Health Care experts and workers lie to the American people and tell the dude who just lost his job what they should be doing 🙄. Without inputting his liabilities and stressor into the equation. Like fuck the hell off, you're employed and he's not.

These dickheads are completely operating in a vacuum and are not remotely paying attention to the mental health crisis and drug OD crisis that has surged during this.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 28, 2020)

amlove21 said:


> I didn’t say that’s what the links or studies concluded. I said asymptomatic spread is bullshit.


You also said, “I am aware that the first article is from Wuhan, I get it. Let's use it as a jumping off point.”

That is what my post did in relation to your claim.


amlove21 said:


> How many times in a row is this where you hop up out the woodwork on some ‘ackshually’ type nonsense with what I post, only to be pretty clearly not understanding square one?


This wasn’t a misunderstanding about what you claimed.

This was pointing out that the article you wanted to use as a jumping off point for discussion cited a study that didn’t support it (your claim).

Did you have another reason for providing that link, or did you not intend for it to lend weight to what you said?


amlove21 said:


> Like, 4? At least this time it wasn’t trying to play gotcha games on the date of a satirical video. 🙄


1.  If you’re referring to the WSJ op-ed, dates were never a part of our disagreement, and it wasn’t a video. I think you genuinely might be mixing up some posts here.

2.  It wasn’t a ‘gotcha’ game.  I didn’t even initiate that interaction or its escalation. To use some of your wording, you hopped out of the woodwork yourself by blowing up unprompted at my response to lindy’s sidebar about Dr. Biden not having a Ph.D. with the kind of unprovoked and heavy dose of the sarcasm that you and other board administrators and moderators continually remind us to avoid in our discussions with each other. This continued despite my refusal to match your tone in my responses to you.

3.  The fact that Epstein had a little fun with Dr. Biden in the beginning (using her husband's own term of endearment for her) in a way that successfully enticed interest in the article (as good op-ed writers do) didn’t turn his op-ed or the views in it into a satire. He spent multiple paragraphs spelling out why he felt non-medical doctorate degree-holders of all stripes no longer deserved the honorific. If taking the article’s arguments at face value instead of assuming satire where none was evident equated to “not knowing a joke when you see one”, then perhaps the op-ed editor of the WSJ itself should be made aware that he, too, missed the joke by also treating Epstein’s statements as a sincere rebuke of Dr. Biden’s choice in his defense of the op-ed article.

Back from the derail to the study from the article that prompted this discussion:

One of the more interesting (and concerning, in terms of indications of virulence in asymptomatic carriers) points made by one of the researchers was that 2/3 of the asymptomatic people they tested had COVID-19 at least once before. The thinking is that body’s immune levels from the previous infection could’ve contributed to the much lower viral load during the second infection, which in turn may have lowered the virus’ transmissibility even more as compared to first-time virus contractors.

Wuhan mass screening identifies hundreds of asymptomatic cases


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 28, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Snip


Cool.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 28, 2020)

Let's just say that whoever is making the rules in one place doesn't agree with whoever is making the rules in another place.  

LAX: All Dyson hand dryers were turned off, because they help spread the Rona.

Orange County in several businesses.  All hand dryers were turned on and no paper towels to be seen.  

Denver International: All hand dryers were on.

Denver Businesses: All hand dryers have been on.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 29, 2020)

Break out the fun police. 

Security sent to observe toboggan hill in Mississauga, Ont. amid reports of crowding


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 29, 2020)

Because we gotta beat a dudes ass if he doesn't wear a mask...

Mask protest melee at North Star Mall yields one arrest


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 29, 2020)

@Devildoc, I am scheduled to get the the Moderna tomorrow....there really isn't a solid fact about waiting a period of time after Covid to get it, thoughts on this?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 29, 2020)

So the Public Health turds in Los Angeles are saying that lockdowns look to be indefinite as ICU bed capacity is still at "100%."  We also know that because of COVID-19, your normal ICU bed capacity is less due to the whole social distancing thing.

Los Angeles Faces Indefinite Lockdown as COVID-19 Continues to Overwhelm Hospitals

Things I know about what's going on in LA and LA County. All surge capacity was collapsed and offline. USNS Mercy has been back in San Diego for months. No one from the Los Angeles or Los Angeles County Government or the state of California has requested Federal assets since they had sent them back.

So Los Angeles and Los Angeles County officials will continue to destroy the county and the city while doing nothing to combat the actual problem when it comes to treatment of people. Because the optics of requesting help from a Republican executive is just too much. Nevermind that all of these queefs willfully violate the Public Health Orders they force on private citizens.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343599353789874177
I'll be honest, I haven't seen anything on written on this video in LA.  But there's zero reason for Health Inspectors to be scheduling kitchen inspections if the restaurants are shut down.  

IF YOU MAKE IT SO SOMEONE CANNOT EARN A LIVING, YOU HAVE TO COMPENSATE THEM FOR IT.  Not hard.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Because we gotta beat a dudes ass if he doesn't wear a mask...
> 
> Mask protest melee at North Star Mall yields one arrest



Why do people think they can just do whatever they want to on private property. It's private property open to the public. If you are asked to leave, and you refuse...criminal trespass arrest, we do it all the time. Create a disturbance at a burger king, asked to leave, you refuse...jail you go.

They should have gone to a public area and demonstrated if they wanted to...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Why do people think they can just do whatever they want to on private property. It's private property open to the public. If you are asked to leave, and you refuse...criminal trespass arrest, we do it all the time. Create a disturbance at a burger king, asked to leave, you refuse...jail you go.
> 
> They should have gone to a public area and demonstrated if they wanted to...



I'll disagree. Just because a dude didn't wear a mask is no reason to beat his ass. With a good lawyer, he'll likely have that Security companies ass. And you know what, there's plenty of good but vulturous attorneys always looking to make 33% on contingency.

What I have seen during this entire thing is cops or security personnel go beyond their remit.  This is intolerable.


----------



## Brill (Dec 29, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> @Devildoc, I am scheduled to get the the Moderna tomorrow....there really isn't a solid fact about waiting a period of time after Covid to get it, thoughts on this?



But...why would you get a shot to prevent something your body already created an immunity to?


----------



## digrar (Dec 29, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'll disagree. Just because a dude didn't wear a mask is no reason to beat his ass.



None of the other non mask wearers got their ass beat? I'd assume the not following the eviction order and instigation of pushing and shoving got him where he ended up.


----------



## digrar (Dec 29, 2020)

lindy said:


> But...why would you get a shot to prevent something your body already created an immunity to?



Research is still ongoing into how strong that protection is and how long it lasts.


----------



## Brill (Dec 29, 2020)

digrar said:


> Research is still ongoing into how strong that protection is and how long it lasts.


There are over 19.5 million (~ 10% of population) Americans that have tested positive and an untold number who had it before testing was widespread.

ref: Tracking Covid-19 cases in the US

In the US alone, how many cases of confirmed or suspected COVID cases have been reinfected? I don’t know but I’m 100% confident that IF reinfection was remotely possible, these assholes here would be scaring the shit out of Americans in the name of safety.

I don’t believe them anymore.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 29, 2020)

Yeah, I just don't know and thought I would get advice from someone active in the field.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 29, 2020)

lindy said:


> I don’t believe them anymore.


I've been at that point for quite a while now. I knew that when I saw such a great divide against medical personnel for and against the stats from the beginning...that I would personally fall somewhere in between them in reference to what I felt about COVID. I now lean almost completely toward the against side (stat wise) than ever. I truthfully can't believe them at this point due to the mumbo jumbo that has been shown.


----------



## Brill (Dec 29, 2020)

Sohei said:


> I truthfully can't believe them at this point due to the mumbo jumbo that has been shown.


I think they’re just getting started.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1343680794032791552


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 29, 2020)

B 1.1.7 strain found in an Elbert County resident, early 20s, no travel history.  Elbert County which is near Denver has 27,000 residents.  This the strain that appeared in the UK in September.

Colorado first state in U.S. to confirm new, more contagious strain of COVID-19

_______________

ETA: Oregon's governor continues to be one of the biggest pieces of human fecal matter in politics.

Salon owner accuses Oregon governor of retaliating for resisting lockdown orders: 'She terrorized my family'


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 30, 2020)

Far too young.

Rest in peace, Congressman-elect.

Louisiana congressman-elect Luke Letlow dead from  COVID-19 at 41


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 30, 2020)

The New York Times: The Elderly vs. Essential Workers: Who Should Get the Coronavirus Vaccine First?.
The Elderly vs. Essential Workers: Who Should Get the Coronavirus Vaccine First?

Who wants to rip on "wokeness" today? It's the main thought throughout this article of actual health and ethics experts.



> “If your goal is to maximize the preservation of human life, then you would bias the vaccine toward older Americans,” Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner, said recently. “If your goal is to reduce the rate of infection, then you would prioritize essential workers. So it depends what impact you’re trying to achieve.”



Ok, this is a reasonable question. Do we want to protect the elderly, or do we want to slow infection rates and begin opening the country? 
I think you can argue both ways.

But...

What...



> “To me the issue of ethics is very significant, very important for this country,” Dr. Peter Szilagyi, a committee member and a pediatrics professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, said at the time, “and clearly favors the essential worker group because of the *high proportion of minority, low-income and low-education workers among essential workers.”*



...the...



> Marc Lipsitch, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health, argued that teachers should not be included as essential workers, if a central goal of the committee is to reduce health inequities.
> 
> *“Teachers have middle-class salaries, are very often white, and they have college degrees,”* he said. “Of course they should be treated better, but they are not among the most mistreated of workers.”



Fuck?



> Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities*. “Older populations are whiter, ” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit*.



These are some of the crazier reasonings I pulled.
There are legitimate social reason to think about how best to distribute the vaccine (and I encourage you to read the article to see those perspectives), but all of these hot takes are hot fucking garbage.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 30, 2020)

So someone from the WHO, said what many have already said. 

WHO chief scientist not confident vaccines prevent transmission


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

@Kraut783 I don't know about Moderna, The Pfizer vaccine, there is no evidence that if you've had it that it is unsafe to get. There is a little bit of evidence that suggests that you can get an enhanced immune effect from it, but the question is, is no one knows for how long.

@Cookie_ , So I should be last to get it because I'm white? Or a male? Or the wrong type of essential worker?  Give me a fucking break. 🙄 (Not directed at you, but at those articles)....

@RackMaster , perhaps we don't know because the vaccine was rushed to market? There's still three years left on the Pfizer study, there's so much about this we just don't know yet.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> @Kraut783 I don't know about Moderna, The Pfizer vaccine, there is no evidence that if you've had it that it is unsafe to get. There is a little bit of evidence that suggests that you can get an enhanced immune effect from it, but the question is, is no one knows for how long.
> 
> @Cookie_ , So I should be last to get it because I'm white? Or a male? Or the wrong type of essential worker?  Give me a fucking break. 🙄 (Not directed at you, but at those articles)....
> 
> @RackMaster , perhaps we don't know because the vaccine was rushed to market? There's still three years left on the Pfizer study, there's so much about this we just don't know yet.



You wrote a few days ago that there's some concern that the antibodies decline in number after six months or so. Even if that's little more than an unproven theory, I'm still going to get the shot. I don't want to get this shit again.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Gunz said:


> You wrote a few days ago that there's some concern that the antibodies decline in number after six months or so. Even if that's little more than an unproven theory, I'm still going to get the shot. I don't want to get this shit again.



I try to look at these things in terms of risk versus benefit, using all the critical thinking skills I learned, I think there's a population where the benefit certainly outweighs the risk, whereby some immunity, even if minimal, is certainly better than nothing, and I think you fit that criteria.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 30, 2020)

@Devildoc I completely understand and agree with the rushed process, not giving us all the answers. 
 I'm sure these vaccines have their place and perhaps should have been pushed to the most vulnerable.  But the advertising from all those involved has not been that reality.  The masses think these are the panacea to "bring back normal".  In reality, none of the control measures in place, are going away.  If anything, we should expect more; even with everyone vaccinated.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> @Devildoc I completely understand and agree with the rushed process, not giving us all the answers.
> I'm sure these vaccines have their place and perhaps should have been pushed to the most vulnerable.  But the advertising from all those involved has not been that reality.  The masses think these are the panacea to "bring back normal".  In reality, none of the control measures in place, are going away.  If anything, we should expect more; even with everyone vaccinated.



I agree. I am by nature very wary of magic potions and elixirs, and I see this vaccine, today, in that category. I want more data, I want to see how people respond, and I want to know what kind of antibodies are around in 6 months, 9 months, and a year. We don't have any of those answers. I also agree that this is one part of a multi-part process and the environmental controls aren't going away anytime soon.  everyone in my department has had it now, and I am kind of a pariah. wow they have not necessarily bullied me, a couple people have gotten borderline nasty with me about it. Of course all that does is make me want to stick to my guns even more.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 30, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> The New York Times: The Elderly vs. Essential Workers: Who Should Get the Coronavirus Vaccine First?.
> The Elderly vs. Essential Workers: Who Should Get the Coronavirus Vaccine First?
> 
> *Who wants to rip on "wokeness" today?* It's the main thought throughout this article of actual health and ethics experts.




ooooh pick me!!  Pick me!!!

<reads the rest of the post>

nope, I think you covered that pretty well ;)







Very interesting reading, thank you.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 30, 2020)

Imagine that, China hiding the origin of the pandemic. 

China clamps down in hidden hunt for coronavirus origins


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 30, 2020)

Person posted on Facebook about the Moderna Vaccine...not sure if she signed up for the study or whatever.  But she's not an "essential worker" or in an at risk category either.  But she goes: "Does anyone else have arm soreness?" on Facebook.  

And I'm like...OMFG, do you know how many shots they gave me in the Army that gave me arm soreness?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> Person posted on Facebook about the Moderna Vaccine...not sure if she signed up for the study or whatever.  But she's not an "essential worker" or in an at risk category either.  But she goes: "Does anyone else have arm soreness?" on Facebook.
> 
> And I'm like...OMFG, do you know *how many shots they gave me in the Army that gave me arm soreness?*


pretty much all of them.  But how about that GGB shot?


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 30, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> And I'm like...OMFG, do you know how many shots they gave me in the Army that gave me arm soreness?


Thought that's how you get promoted in the Cav?


This essential vs non-essential is effectively creating first class and second class citizens regardless of your income.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Marauder06 said:


> pretty much all of them.  But how about that GGB shot?



You mean the golf ball-size bolus of syrup in the ass? #mostpainfulshotever


----------



## Grunt (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> You mean the golf ball-size bolus of syrup in the ass? #mostpainfulshotever


I'm quite sure that was simply a glob of axle grease injected into us while impersonating something else with legitimate medical purposes....


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 30, 2020)

And that didn't take long. 

California ER nurse tests positive for COVID-19 a week after getting vaccine


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And that didn't take long.
> 
> California ER nurse tests positive for COVID-19 a week after getting vaccine



Probably already had it, was asymptomatic then got vaccine, got sick prior to vaccine taking effect. Media nonsense.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

As vehemently anti government I am, I am an educated person that's been a paramedic for at least half of my life. I also listened to physicians I trust regarding the science of this shit.

So, I got my first dose of the Phizer vaccine. I'm going to pick up PEZ and I'll start foaming at the mouth, acting rabid on social media.

Unfortunately, this is the norm for me, so, not sure how convincing that would be.

Regarding science of this: its not a live virus or bacteria like many vaccines. Its a natural protein that causes a spike, explained yo me as, knocking on the door of the virus to allow entrance, works with natural immunity and contains no chemicals. The science has been around for this since 2002, SARS but since we had to pandemic or disease to use the science on, was not worth doing further studies till now.

If yall want, I'll let you know if any symptoms from vaccine starts, though, all I know getting it, deny any.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 30, 2020)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> And that didn't take long.
> 
> California ER nurse tests positive for COVID-19 a week after getting vaccine



I mean, not surprised.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Muppet said:


> As vehemently anti government I am, I am an educated person that's been a paramedic for at least half of my life. I also listened to physicians I trust regarding the science of this shit.
> 
> So, I got my first dose of the Phizer vaccine. I'm going to pick up PEZ and I'll start foaming at the mouth, acting rabid on social media.
> 
> ...



I applaud you for looking at the science and coming up with a determination on the vaccine that suits you.

I have said elsewhere, I'm not anti-vax, but I was around during 9/11 when we are getting anthrax, and some of us got smallpox vaccine, I know Marines and sailors who got them who were fine before the vaccine, and then had all sorts of weird syndromes after. I know, correlation versus causation and all, I just want more data.  

At some point, my guess it will be 2021, this vaccine will move from "optional" to "mandatory" and I will have no choice.  Right now I am in a wait-and-see mode.  I do not distrust the physicians who I know who are first in line for it, but I'm not sure I have the same faith that they do.


----------



## Brill (Dec 30, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Far too young.
> 
> Rest in peace, Congressman-elect.
> 
> Louisiana congressman-elect Luke Letlow dead from  COVID-19 at 41


 
Well, not exactly.



> LSU Health Shreveport Chancellor G.E. Ghali said *Letlow died from a heart attack* following a procedure related to the infection.



Louisiana Congressman-elect Luke Letlow dies from COVID complications at 41


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 30, 2020)

lindy said:


> Well, not exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Louisiana Congressman-elect Luke Letlow dies from COVID complications at 41


Thanks for the clarity.  

I hope the virus doesn't put any more otherwise perfectly healthy people in that position.


----------



## Brill (Dec 30, 2020)

Locksteady said:


> Thanks for the clarity.
> 
> I hope the virus doesn't put any more otherwise perfectly healthy people in that position.



Not a ding on you but the media spin. It’s the same as saying SGT x died from a deployment.


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I applaud you for looking at the science and coming up with a determination on the vaccine that suits you.
> 
> I have said elsewhere, I'm not anti-vax, but I was around during 9/11 when we are getting anthrax, and some of us got smallpox vaccine, I know Marines and sailors who got them who were fine before the vaccine, and then had all sorts of weird syndromes after. I know, correlation versus causation and all, I just want more data.
> 
> At some point, my guess it will be 2021, this vaccine will move from "optional" to "mandatory" and I will have no choice.  Right now I am in a wait-and-see mode.  I do not distrust the physicians who I know who are first in line for it, but I'm not sure I have the same faith that they do.



Anthrax, smallpox...check.  Here take Mefloquine for a year, just in case...check 

Space Force will probably have to take some kind of shot for moon dust allergies


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 30, 2020)

Court Supports LA County's on-site dining ban.  Therefore destroying the lives of Angelenos. (my commentary) 

Appeals court allows L.A. County dining ban to remain in place until at least February


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I applaud you for looking at the science and coming up with a determination on the vaccine that suits you.
> 
> I have said elsewhere, I'm not anti-vax, but I was around during 9/11 when we are getting anthrax, and some of us got smallpox vaccine, I know Marines and sailors who got them who were fine before the vaccine, and then had all sorts of weird syndromes after. I know, correlation versus causation and all, I just want more data.
> 
> At some point, my guess it will be 2021, this vaccine will move from "optional" to "mandatory" and I will have no choice.  Right now I am in a wait-and-see mode.  I do not distrust the physicians who I know who are first in line for it, but I'm not sure I have the same faith that they do.



I was just as skeptical as you my brother. Hell, many docs and nurses I know were/are, most of them have accepted the science. 

That said, each of us have to make a decision based on the facts. I'm more concerned with taking the skag home to my wife or immunocompromised pop/in laws. The skag has proven that, there's no rhyme or reason who gets sick, how or dirt naps, as you know.

At this point, all of us have gotten who knows what during our service time vaccines, I'll take the chance I suppose.

My only beef are the cunt politicians that are getting shot first over anyone in a health care setting/high risk.

Fucking Kamala Harris and Bernie, the lot of em should fry with karma over this shit, many are hypocrites for initially stating that they will not take "the Trump vaccine", now, they pony up like fucking rats on a sinking ship. Fuck them...


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Muppet said:


> I was just as skeptical as you my brother. Hell, many docs and nurses I know were/are, most of them have accepted the science.
> 
> That said, each of us have to make a decision based on the facts. I'm more concerned with taking the skag home to my wife or immunocompromised pop/in laws. The skag has proven that, there's no rhyme or reason who gets sick, how or dirt naps, as you know.
> 
> ...



I hope you did not take my post as criticism, it absolutely is not.  All of us need to find that line in the sand regarding this vaccine and how we choose to react to COVID restrictions.  I do agree with doing everything you can to mitigate taking the virus home to family members, especially if they are at-risk.  

I also agree with you regarding the politicians, I would tell them if it wasn't good enough for you then it's not good enough for you now.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> I hope you did not take my post as criticism, it absolutely is not.  All of us need to find that line in the sand regarding this vaccine and how we choose to react to COVID restrictions.  I do agree with doing everything you can to mitigate taking the virus home to family members, especially if they are at-risk.
> 
> I also agree with you regarding the politicians, I would tell them if it wasn't good enough for you then it's not good enough for you now.



Absolutely did not take that as criticism brother, hells na. I totally get it.

In regards to most of the mitigation, I'm against mandated shut downs that destroy lives and businesses.

I'm against this pandemic being made political, not surprising though.

I'm against the mask shaming virtue signaling fuck faces that make wearing a mask a patriotic duty.

I'm for wearing masks in close/congregate settings, not sure if science totally supports this, outside is retarded, in your car alone, they are retards that cannot think analytically, that matters cause these idiots vote and make adult decisions.

Masks should be optional, indoor dining/businesses should be open, if you choose to not do that, fine, whatever. 

The media and controlling government are responsible for this fuckery.


----------



## Brill (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> You mean the golf ball-size bolus of syrup in the ass? #mostpainfulshotever


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 30, 2020)

In re: to Covid deaths, a couple of MN state representatives are calling for, what I believe to be a justified, national audit of all Covid death certificates.

After reviewing 2,800 death certificates from the Minnesota Dept of Health, 800 of those counted as Covid deaths did not list the virus as the underlying cause of death.
State lawmakers ask Trump for 'full audit' of COVID-19 death certificates - Alpha News

And while many of you have probably seen some of the "flawed" charts floating around comparing total deaths from 2020 to previous years going back to 2015, there is enough accurate information in those numbers to give us pause.   Here's an article discussing those comparisons and  indicating the numbers as "misleading":
Fact check: Chart does not present accurate US deaths figure for 2020 | Reuters

However, that fact check article is just as flawed.  Just as they call out projected deaths as misleading, they seem to consider projected deaths from CDC reports as reliable; can't have it both ways.  Both are simply forecasts and likely will have some inaccuracy.  Point, is that it's all forecasting at this point...no one really knows.  But based on info cited, we'd need nearly 700K deaths between Nov and the end of the year, as well as some uncounted from early in Jan 2020, to reach the often cited 300K excess deaths; people got to get busy dying.

All this simply points to a need for the audit that's being proposed, especially as officials cling to these forecasts as facts.  Certainly a lot of questions to be answered.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 30, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Probably already had it, was asymptomatic then got vaccine, got sick prior to vaccine taking effect. Media nonsense.



I should have been more clear.  I'm surprised it took this long for the media to find a case like this to divide us further.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 30, 2020)

RackMaster said:


> Imagine that, China hiding the origin of the pandemic.
> 
> China clamps down in hidden hunt for coronavirus origins



I expected nothing less. I’m more than halfway convinced this virus was engineered. I’m not a conspiracy dude...but whatever the fuck I had did not seem like a product of nature.


----------



## Brill (Dec 30, 2020)

State gov taking on municipal gov over COVID restrictions. Americans need more of this!



> *Texas Gov. Greg Abbott* slammed Austin Mayor Steve Adler and *threatened legal action* after Adler announced new restrictions on restaurant and bar activity for several days over the New Year holiday.
> 
> Adler issued an order on Tuesday placing a curfew on dine-in services by restaurants and bars. From Dec. 31 through Jan. 3, such businesses must stop all dine-in services from 10:30 p.m. to 6 a.m. The order would effectively stop restaurants and bars from serving any customers who wanted to celebrate the coming of the new year at their businesses.



Austin Mayor Announces New Restrictions On Restaurants; Texas AG: Try It And I’ll See You In Court


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

Normally, I'm pro cop, I know many including my brothers on here, my bro in law and many friends but, the gestapo stand our state police has taken, doing the unconstitutional and illegitimate bidding for our governor is astounding. 

In fact, most of not all counties and their DAs refuse to enforce this shit and it was passed down to municipalities. Unfortunately, in PA, many small towns depends on SP and these fucks are stasi like, I've now witnessed it a few times, first hand as a medic.

One time in general, state cop car pulls a walker in a neighborhood over, investigates why they are there and they have the balls to tell her to put a mask on outside, the governor made it a law. REALLY!
Cop Chases Person Home For Not Wearing a Mask


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Normally, I'm pro cop, I know many including my brothers on here, my bro in law and many friends but, the gestapo stand our state police has taken, doing the unconstitutional and illegitimate bidding for our governor is astounding.
> 
> In fact, most of not all counties and their DAs refuse to enforce this shit and it was passed down to municipalities. Unfortunately, in PA, many small towns depends on SP and these fucks are stasi like, I've now witnessed it a few times, first hand as a medic.
> 
> ...



Me, I would relish that lawsuit. In fact I'm sure my actions would have me tased, but the lawsuit would be great.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 30, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Me, I would relish that lawsuit. In fact I'm sure my actions would have me tased, but the lawsuit would be great.



Ditto bro.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2020)

Du fuq?

Wisconsin health system: Worker deliberately spoiled 500 doses of vaccine

_In a statement late Wednesday, Aurora said the employee involved "today acknowledged that they intentionally removed the vaccine from refrigeration."

Aurora's statement said they had fired the employee and referred the matter to authorities for further investigation. _


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Du fuq?
> 
> Wisconsin health system: Worker deliberately spoiled 500 doses of vaccine
> 
> ...



Ho-lee fuck 😳

Not only should they get fired, they should lose their license and/or certifications, and be charged with criminal activity.


----------



## Kaldak (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Du fuq?
> 
> Wisconsin health system: Worker deliberately spoiled 500 doses of vaccine
> 
> ...



It was originally reported here, in WI, as a mistake. Human error.


----------



## Grunt (Dec 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Du fuq?
> 
> Wisconsin health system: Worker deliberately spoiled 500 doses of vaccine
> 
> ...


Activism takes many forms and this is one of them. There will be more things like this in the future. People tend to *act* within their realm of knowledge and experience.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wisconsin health system: Worker deliberately spoiled 500 doses of vaccine
> 
> _In a statement late Wednesday, Aurora said the employee involved "today acknowledged that they intentionally removed the vaccine from refrigeration."
> 
> Aurora's statement said they had fired the employee and referred the matter to authorities for further investigation. _





Devildoc said:


> Du fuq?



How much money is that?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 31, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> How much money is that?



Pfizer vaccine is not quite $20 a vial.


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Not only should they get fired, they should lose their license and/or certifications, and be *charged with criminal activity*.



Was she not wearing a mask?


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

We need more of this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344307740374659072


----------



## Kraut783 (Dec 31, 2020)

I don't know anything about Governor Ron DeSantis, but that was a great statement....


----------



## Polar Bear (Dec 31, 2020)

StackPath


----------



## Brill (Dec 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> StackPath





> DeWine said. “I don’t have data in front of me, but anecdotally,.."



I don't have the data in front of me but anecdotally Epstein did not kill himself.


----------



## Polar Bear (Dec 31, 2020)

Survey study finds fewer Americans likely to get COVID-19 vaccine compared to 9 months ago
Survey study finds fewer Americans likely to get COVID-19 vaccine compared to 9 months ago


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 31, 2020)

Polar Bear said:


> StackPath


Yeah I read about that on twitter.  Found that interesting.

__________

ETA:

What I learned from 2020 is that Cuban doesn't know shit. This country did a massive redirect when it came to the government issuing checks. tens of millions of people got direct deposit into their accounts with no-issue. The internet mainframe application for non-filers worked very well if not flawlessly.

Cuban has used his platform to be a woke critic of the administration and he has been wrong throughout the year.  Go back to Shark Tank and talk about things you have expertise in rather than tweeting like the POTUS does from the shitter.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344741266781831168
____________

ETA2: Rep Gabbard has a point. If you're in a low-risk category, you should get the hell to the back of the line:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344806404062814208


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 31, 2020)

Fuck, I don't recognize this country any more. 

City, Toronto Police vowing crackdown on illegal hockey, tobogganing


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 31, 2020)

Just say 'no' to illegal tobogganing... gateway to drug-fueled terrorism....


----------



## RustyShackleford (Dec 31, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Normally, I'm pro cop, I know many including my brothers on here, my bro in law and many friends but, the gestapo stand our state police has taken, doing the unconstitutional and illegitimate bidding for our governor is astounding.
> 
> In fact, most of not all counties and their DAs refuse to enforce this shit and it was passed down to municipalities. Unfortunately, in PA, many small towns depends on SP and these fucks are stasi like, I've now witnessed it a few times, first hand as a medic.
> 
> ...


If the DAs are refusing cases, this shit should die down. Troopers out here haven’t been doing much since March. Not sure how it is in the rural areas where they’re the only LE, but where I work they’re fairly inactive.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 31, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> If the DAs are refusing cases, this shit should die down. Troopers out here haven’t been doing much since March. Not sure how it is in the rural areas where they’re the only LE, but where I work they’re fairly inactive.



Certain areas in PA only have part time police departments, the state covers when they are not logged up.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Dec 31, 2020)

Muppet said:


> Certain areas in PA only have part time police departments, the state covers when they are not logged up.


Where I grew up in PA and where my folks live now is like that. 

Indiana is the same. In some areas, the state police are it, unless there’s a deputy sheriff closer. They can arrest but the DA doesn’t have to do shit with it.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 31, 2020)

RustyShackleford said:


> Where I grew up in PA and where my folks live now is like that.
> 
> Indiana is the same. In some areas, the state police are it, unless there’s a deputy sheriff closer. They can arrest but the DA doesn’t have to do shit with it.



Im just north of Philly, so, we are still urban here. Very busy, Bucks County. There are a number of very small boros that only have part time cops.

The only time the big township cops will cover it are if I/EMS calls assist jobs in those small towns. Otherwise, state takes there time. They'd rather cover 95 and the turnpike than play local cop.


----------



## Brill (Jan 1, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Fuck, I don't recognize this country any more.
> 
> City, Toronto Police vowing crackdown on illegal hockey, tobogganing



It’ll be war up there when they crack down on curling!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 1, 2021)

lindy said:


> It’ll be war up there when they crack down on curling!


What’s curling?


----------



## Brill (Jan 1, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What’s curling?



Shuffleboard for places that never “dethaw”.  Even after this, I still don’t know.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 1, 2021)

Ooh-Rah said:


> What’s curling?



The only sport that comes with a bar and starts serving at 0700.


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 1, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> The only sport that comes with a bar and starts serving at 0700.


Guess you don't golf.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 1, 2021)

RustyShackleford said:


> If the DAs are refusing cases, this shit should die down. Troopers out here haven’t been doing much since March. Not sure how it is in the rural areas where they’re the only LE, but where I work they’re fairly inactive.



DAs are probably prosecuting only COVID related cases and letting violence run amok, or that's at least how it "feels".

__________

So this fucking person. Has cajones to say Chicago Schools should remained closed while she's off in fucking Puerto Rico for New Years.

I don't got beef with you traveling or anything, that's cool, but she's a fucking hypocrite.

Chicago Teachers Union Leader Enjoys Puerto Rico While Railing Against Returning To Classrooms


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 1, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> Guess you don't golf.



Golf is like 4 months long here, curling is year round.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 1, 2021)

That sounds like a good thing RackMaster....considering....


----------



## Brill (Jan 1, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> That sounds like a good thing RackMaster....considering....
> 
> View attachment 37882



After sweeping the kitchen, next Olympic sport: sandwich making


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jan 1, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> DAs are probably prosecuting only COVID related cases and letting violence run amok, or that's at least how it "feels".


Well, indy’s homicide numbers were way up this year, so there’s that. Locally they touted how violent crime was down. Fact checkers would say that’s “partially true.” 

Homicides went from 160ish in 2019 to 244 in 2020. Robberies and carjackings were down, home invasions up, and so on. The Covid restrictions and mass telework drove that.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 1, 2021)

I see your Canada...and raise you Scotland


----------



## Brill (Jan 1, 2021)

Gunz said:


> I see your Canada...and raise you Scotland
> 
> View attachment 37886



If your curling match lasts longer than 4 hours, see a doctor.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 1, 2021)

lindy said:


> If your curling match lasts longer than 4 hours, see a doctor.



Guy I used to work with, said his matches could go for 5-6 hours non stop. Seemed really proud of it too. I don't know, seems almost like a hassle at that point there are other things I'd like to be doing after that long.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 1, 2021)

OK let's try to get this back on track.  One of you can start a hotties of curling thread.


----------



## digrar (Jan 2, 2021)

And we won't start talking about 5 day Test Match Cricket.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 2, 2021)

I went to day 4 of a test the other week. I was there 43 minutes and we bowled them out and won the thing.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 2, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> I went to day 4 of a test the other week. I was there 43 minutes and we bowled them out and won the thing.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 2, 2021)

No! This is an American forum!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2021)

digrar said:


> And we won't start talking about 5 day Test Match Cricket.


Multi-Day Over, where players get fined for going slow.  Want to know why Test Cricket is dead?  Well the sweaters and shitty rules.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 2, 2021)

Did you just use a specialist cricket thesaurus sentence generator to post that mate? Now I'm a bit confused.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> Did you just use a specialist cricket thesaurus sentence generator to post that mate? Now I'm a bit confused.



When we thought we had the Rona over Thanksgiving I was watching NZ vs West Indies Single Day Over, one of the matches was an intermittent rain out.  I think I watched 45 minutes of commentary with no cricket and about 15 minutes of cricket before flipping off.  NOW I understand the point of T20.  Multi-Day Internationals need not exist.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 2, 2021)

I think that might have been the one I went to. You just need to keep watching eventually Stockholm Syndrome will kick in.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 2, 2021)

What is even going on


----------



## digrar (Jan 2, 2021)

T20 will kill 50 over one day cricket, apart from the world cup it is essentially irrelevant these days. Test cricket is still the pinnacle of the game though.


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 2, 2021)

English. American English. 

Now and always. I don't have an adequate translator.


----------



## digrar (Jan 2, 2021)

Multi day over - first time for me, but sounds like Test cricket. Two teams, two batting innings and two bowling innings each, 5 days to complete.
Single day over - again, first time I've heard it called that, but One day cricket (international games are often called ODIs, one day internationals). 1 x 50 over innings each, completed over the course of 8 hours, generally a day nighter, with the first innings played in the late afternoon and the second innings played in prime time under lights. 
T20, is the newest form of the game. 20 overs each, takes about 3 hours to complete if it goes the distance, a batting collapse and a short run chase can drastically reduce the length of a game.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 2, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> OK let's try to get this back on track.



That went well.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2021)

digrar said:


> Multi day over - first time for me, but sounds like Test cricket. Two teams, two batting innings and two bowling innings each, 5 days to complete.
> Single day over - again, first time I've heard it called that, but One day cricket (international games are often called ODIs, one day internationals). 1 x 50 over innings each, completed over the course of 8 hours, generally a day nighter, with the first innings played in the late afternoon and the second innings played in prime time under lights.
> T20, is the newest form of the game. 20 overs each, takes about 3 hours to complete if it goes the distance, a batting collapse and a short run chase can drastically reduce the length of a game.



There are three forms of Test Cricket Now.

Multi-Day Over/International colloquially called "Test Cricket"
Single-Day Over/International
T20 International

I don't see how Test Cricket is surviving, it's certainly not a compelling TV product.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jan 2, 2021)

To your mind. Not to the mind of India and Pakistan.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> To your mind. Not to the mind of India and Pakistan.


Test Cricket, the only thing stopping South Asia from being embroiled in a decades long nuclear war. . .


----------



## digrar (Jan 3, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> There are three forms of Test Cricket Now.
> 
> Multi-Day Over/International colloquially called "Test Cricket"
> Single-Day Over/International
> ...



The ICC say "There are three formats of cricket played at the international level – Test matches, One-Day Internationals and Twenty20 Internationals." I'd be interested to know where you got those terms from, like I said, first time I've seen them. 

 203,472 people at the 2019 Boxing day test. Billion dollar TV deals, the sub continent countries don't turn up to tests like they do the short format, unless it's Australia or England and to a lesser extent South Africa touring, but the TV deals are still huge. Even if it shrunk to tests between Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand and India, or just England and Australia, it would still be the pinnacle of cricket.  

@Kaldak @RackMaster we could probably use a new thread with the last page or so of posts, we've gone somewhat off topic. I blame the curling posts to be honest.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 3, 2021)

digrar said:


> The ICC say "There are three formats of cricket played at the international level – Test matches, One-Day Internationals and *Twenty20 Internationals*."


I think the last format applied to every sport this year.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 3, 2021)

I don't know anything about Cricket...but it is widely enjoyed.

Back on track....

Soooooo.......received the Moderna vaccine on the 12/30, no reaction to any thing, sore at injection point for a bit....felt a little puny for a few hours, but that was it. 2nd round set for 1/27.  Some other guys felt achy all over for a day.


----------



## Brill (Jan 3, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> I don't know anything about Cricket...but it is widely enjoyed.



You do know they’re not talking about the cellular company popular among the AARP crowd?


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 3, 2021)

Health officials gave COVID-19 vaccines to friends instead of elderly - Insider


FIRST ON 3: COVID-19 vaccine administrators give doses to close contacts hours after qualified citizens were turned away



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345023735879917568
Maybe it's true they mis-projected the amount of doses they had, but the optics are incredibly bad when you turn people away then call your friends in to recieve them (who most likely didn't meet the CDC guidelines of first responders or elderly, this is speculation on my part). I understand not wanting to let doses go to waste, but this leaves an incredibly sour taste in my mouth.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 3, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> Health officials gave COVID-19 vaccines to friends instead of elderly - Insider
> 
> 
> FIRST ON 3: COVID-19 vaccine administrators give doses to close contacts hours after qualified citizens were turned away
> ...


I'd fire all of them.  I'd publicize their names and make it hard.  That's gotta be a crime somehow?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 3, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> Health officials gave COVID-19 vaccines to friends instead of elderly - Insider
> 
> 
> FIRST ON 3: COVID-19 vaccine administrators give doses to close contacts hours after qualified citizens were turned away
> ...


Wow.  That's terrible.  Definitely worth an investigation.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 3, 2021)

lindy said:


> You do know they’re not talking about the cellular company popular among the AARP crowd?



LOL, I do.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 3, 2021)

Um...


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jan 3, 2021)

Possible solution to an enduring problem...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 4, 2021)

Is the Rona over? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345878523207180288


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 4, 2021)

^ Freakin' clowns, one and all.


----------



## Brill (Jan 4, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Is the Rona over?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345878523207180288



Nancy isn’t happy.

Dear Colleague to All Members on Health & Safety Guidelines


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 4, 2021)

Heard an interview with a doctor on the radio in Toronto, this morning.  At the current rate of vaccination, all of Ontario will be vaccinated by 2035. 

Canada’s ‘slow’ rollout of coronavirus vaccine ’embarrassing’: experts

More on the bullshit crackdown on tobogganing and hockey. 

Confusion swirls over city's hockey, tobogganing crackdown


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 4, 2021)

This is a bill in the New York Assembly.  Basically authorizes detention camps.

Bill 416 NY General Assembly


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 4, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is a bill in the New York Assembly.  Basically authorizes detention camps.
> 
> Bill 416 NY General Assembly


NY gonna NY.


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 4, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> This is a bill in the New York Assembly.  Basically authorizes detention camps.
> 
> Bill 416 NY General Assembly



Read it, seems very vague for what it's aiming to do. My favorite has to be the very end, seems open ended to allow the forcible administration of medication regardless of consent of detainees. That or I'm not smart enough to read bill legislation and I'm looking too deep into it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 4, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> Read it, seems very vague for what it's aiming to do. My favorite has to be the very end, seems open ended to allow the forcible administration of medication regardless of consent of detainees. That or I'm not smart enough to read bill legislation and I'm looking too deep into it.



Making vague laws, what state legislatures do all the time to give them broad sweeping powers.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 5, 2021)

SaintKP said:


> Read it, seems very vague for what it's aiming to do. My favorite has to be the very end, seems open ended to allow the forcible administration of medication regardless of consent of detainees. That or I'm not smart enough to read bill legislation and I'm looking too deep into it.



Awesome.  In one fell swoop of the pen undo 50 years of medical law and ethics.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 5, 2021)

The high demand for vaccine is crashing local government websites and phone lines in a lot of Florida counties. People are camping out in line. The systems can't handle it.

I've heard nothing from the VA and probably won't for months, but here's their info page.

COVID-19 vaccines at VA | Veterans Affairs


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 5, 2021)

There's a lot to unpack in this article:

In LA, EMS crews told not to transport COVID-19 patients with little chance of survival :: WRAL.com

No news in not transporting unsuccessful resuscitation with OHCA; that's old news.  Rationing O2, well.... hard to come up with hard protocols to dictate that.

Edited to add, just heard on a work zoom that our organization has done more vaccinations than any other organization in the country.  The skeptic in me wants to know if there is any bedroom activity between my organization and Pfizer.  Also, our healthcare system (3 hospitals) has almost 200 COVID inpatients, our hospital has 105, between a third and half are in ICU.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 6, 2021)

Private Citizen attempts to enforce mask mandate with firearm...masks making people go insane.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346490672224882689


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 6, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Private Citizen attempts to enforce mask mandate with firearm...masks making people go insane.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346490672224882689


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 6, 2021)

In response for China releasing the Kung Flu on the world... NY passes edicts for Covid Concentration Camps. Anyone else find this ironic? Cause I really find this ironic.

Way to go New York, you suck.


----------



## AWP (Jan 7, 2021)

My daughter has the 'Rona. Slight runny nose, no cough, but she's so lethargic she has to force herself to move and her entire body hurts. 

How did she catch it? Her roommate got it via a Tinder booty call and passed it along to the others.

I hate people.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 7, 2021)

AWP said:


> My daughter has the 'Rona. Slight runny nose, no cough, but she's so lethargic she has to force herself to move and her entire body hurts.
> 
> How did she catch it? Her roommate got it via a Tinder booty call and passed it along to the others.
> 
> I hate people.



Oh, no!!  😳

Praying that she gets better quickly.


----------



## Andoni (Jan 7, 2021)

AWP said:


> Her roommate got it via a Tinder booty call and passed it along to the others


Gross! 

I'm sorry to hear this. Hopefully she kicks it quick and starts feeling better. 

This situation sucks, getting the covid in a roommate living situation-- I would imagine door dash and ubereats  could really make their money for her...if she's even eating. 

If she's anywhere near bragg I can drop off pharmacy stuff or food on her door. 

Seriously. I love doing stuff like that. No contact, no talking, even better.


----------



## AWP (Jan 7, 2021)

Thank you all.

She's in CO. The roomie is congested w/ fever, but no lethargy. My daughter is lethargic, "my skeleton is trying to leave my skin" in pain, and a slight fever. She's on Day Two of symptoms and the roomie is on Day Three. Minus the fever, there's no overlap of signs and symptoms right now. Both are VERY active, eat well, no weight issues, etc.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 7, 2021)

We're in lockdown now but elementary school was supposed to go back to in class Monday.  Now it looks like the remote learning will be extended.  And yesterday there was talk of curfews... 

Ontario will announce this afternoon whether students will return to in-person learning amid 'significant concerns' about spread of COVID-19


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 7, 2021)

I just found out a good friend, former medic/ED nurse here with me, had it.  He was discharged from the MICU to home this week.  Mid-50s, athletic, no comorbidities.  Got progressively short of breath with cough, increased lethargy, could not walk from here to there without having to rest, room air SpO2 in the low 80s.  He didn't have to buy a vent in the ICU but was proned with hi-flow O2 for 48 hours.

I put this up here not to elicit sympathy or whatever (that really goes to @AWP daughter and our friends and family who get it in the community; I feel that although we don't want it, it's a reasonable chance given what we do and where we work so we know the risk.  I am putting it out here so we can all glean as much information as we can about this thing.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 7, 2021)

So I guess it's a couple more weeks of home schooling.  Tomorrow we're burning shit.

Ontario extends elementary school closures until Jan. 25 amid rising COVID-19 infections


----------



## Dame (Jan 7, 2021)

Clark County Nevada schools never re-opened.


----------



## Brill (Jan 7, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> room air SpO2 in the low 80s.  He didn't have to buy a vent in the ICU but was proned with hi-flow O2 for 48 hours.


What does that mean?


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 7, 2021)

lindy said:


> What does that mean?



Oxygen moves around your blood attached to hemoglobin, SpO2 is your pulse oximetry, measures the amount of oxygen attached to your hemoglobin in capillary blood.  Normal is greater than 95, nominal normal is 93-95. Anything between 90 and 93 we keep an eye on, anything less than 90 is no bueno and needs oxygen.  The lower you go, the worse you are.  If you are in the '80s consistently, you're pretty sick. If you're in the low 80s you almost always get intubated and put on a ventilator.

One of the therapies they found that works in this is laying you prone in a bed, on your belly, instead of on your back. When you're intubated and on a ventilator is not so bad because you're sedated, but imagine having to spend 48 hours straight, awake, with a face mask with high flow oxygen, on your belly.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Dame said:


> Clark County Nevada schools never re-opened.


Douglas County (CO) elementary schools are open...there were kids being kids out on the playground when I walked the dog today...it was good to hear them laughing and squealing and being kids...


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 8, 2021)

Vaccine rollout in Canada has been a joke and the responsibility lays solely at the top. But Trudeau would rather put the blame elsewhere.



> Start with the federal government. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau chastised provincial governments this week for being too slow to administer the limited vaccine supply his government has procured. He should be glad they haven’t gone faster. The slow provincial pace has somewhat masked the severe vaccine shortage facing the country. As of Monday, Canada has received about 424,000 doses of vaccine, with 148,000 doses going to Ontario. Considering that each person requires two doses, that’s a ridiculously small number.



Randall Denley: After a dismal start, Ontario’s vaccine rollout looks...even more dismal


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 8, 2021)

General business destruction in LA is hitting the LGBT scene pretty harshly.  

LA’s Historic and Vital Queer Nightlife Community Is Disappearing Due to Coronavirus


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 8, 2021)

Woke up with no taste or smell and body is feeling fatigued like I been running gonna go tested tmmrw


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 9, 2021)

Gotta get your Rona Dog Whistling in while you can.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347628023252717575


----------



## Brill (Jan 9, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Gotta get your Rona Dog Whistling in while you can.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347628023252717575



Didn't they march during the Floyd protests?  Oh, that's different.  Got it.


----------



## Dame (Jan 9, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Gotta get your Rona Dog Whistling in while you can.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347628023252717575


Dear @Grace_Segers
When a man is protecting your ass, you do NOT complain that he _wasn't_ wearing a mask while doing it.
Sincerely,
@Dame


----------



## CQB (Jan 9, 2021)

SpitfireV said:


> I went to day 4 of a test the other week. I was there 43 minutes and we bowled them out and won the thing.


Yep, I picked it up on Fox Sports. The farnarkling from the opposition leveled the series at two rubbers a piece. It was just a pity the wicket was a bit sticky.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 9, 2021)

CQB said:


> Yep, I picked it up on Fox Sports. The farnarkling from the opposition leveled the series at two rubbers a piece. It was just a pity the wicket was a bit sticky.



You don't need rubbers with covid, mate...


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 9, 2021)

Gunz said:


> They're all coming to Florida because there are no residency restrictions here. Problem is, they're not getting vaccinated here either because there are a zillion fucking people here already and about 200 doses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've actually read a few articles that quite a few snowbirds have gotten vaccinated in Florida.  If it wasn't for the kid's and wife's work, I'd spend the rest of the lockdown there.  With the modelling they are pushing, the end is nigh...  😉

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canadian-vaccine-snowbirds-florida-covid-19-1.5863640


----------



## SaintKP (Jan 9, 2021)

Gunz said:


> I mean, what else causes that?



Could be a new strain of clap-herpasyphillis


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 9, 2021)

Now this doctor and his cost benefit analysis of lockdowns should be on every major network.  

Canadian expert's research finds lockdown harms are 10 times greater than benefits


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 9, 2021)

What kind of social credit do I get if I:

1. Get the Rona shot. 
2. Post about it on social. 

?


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 9, 2021)

So got the Rona looks like I can kiss 1st place in the 100 day challenge goodbye lol


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jan 9, 2021)

Jaknight said:


> So got the Rona looks like I can kiss 1st place in the 100 day challenge goodbye lol



Get well soon buddy!


----------



## Jaknight (Jan 9, 2021)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Get well soon buddy!


Thanks


----------



## CQB (Jan 9, 2021)

Gunz said:


> You don't need rubbers with covid, mate...


Doh! Caught in slips.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 9, 2021)

Up your Zinc, Vit D and Vit C intake. Get well soon!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 9, 2021)

Is this like the jaundice I had as a baby?  Just lay out on the lawn naked?

Sarcastic but also not.


----------



## Dame (Jan 9, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Is this like the jaundice I had as a baby?  Just lay out on the lawn naked?
> 
> Sarcastic but also not.


You have it?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 9, 2021)

Dame said:


> You have it?



No, I was being sarcastic about increasing his vitamin D. 

When I was born I had jaundice so my mother laid me out in the sun every day.   These days they have lamp setups for infant phototherapy.  Hospitals tend to loan these out to patients parents for prescribed sessions. 

Firefly — Design that Matters


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 9, 2021)

Heh, during my quarantine I would go sit in a chair in the backyard and get some sun for about 30 mins, probably helped and felt good.


----------



## Dame (Jan 10, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> No, I was being sarcastic about increasing his vitamin D.
> 
> When I was born I had jaundice so my mother laid me out in the sun every day.   These days they have lamp setups for infant phototherapy.  Hospitals tend to loan these out to patients parents for prescribed sessions.
> 
> Firefly — Design that Matters


Yes, I know what jaundice is. I raised three of you little devils.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 10, 2021)

Have any of you guys heard anything about this drug called Ivermectin? Research is piling up showing that it is effective against COVID and a ton of other shit as well. 

With all the talk about vaccines not working and reinfections and different strains, I think it would make more sense to just take Ivermectin.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 10, 2021)

Jaknight said:


> So got the Rona looks like I can kiss 1st place in the 100 day challenge goodbye lol


Hang in there. 10-12 days. Collect your antibodies.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 10, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Is the Rona over?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345878523207180288



Just obey bro.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 10, 2021)

Shits about to get crazy. I should have bought more at Costco this week.  Fuck you and your curfew.

Ontario's top doctor eyes curfew to curb the spread of COVID-19 as cases surge


----------



## CQB (Jan 10, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Shits about to get crazy. I should have bought more at Costco this week.  Fuck you and your curfew.
> 
> Ontario's top doctor eyes curfew to curb the spread of COVID-19 as cases surge


At least you’re receiving prior notice. Someone sneezes in Queensland & every state govt. here shits itself & closes borders.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 10, 2021)

I forgot about this bullshit.  There's 1 nurse per 100 schools, so some staff member or even bus driver, would have to administer the tests.  The time alone is idiotic.  Besides no one is giving any fucking test on my kid's without a parent present.  Even if it's just a saliva test. 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...-in-schools-amid-rising-case-counts-1.5865204


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 10, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> I forgot about this bullshit.  There's 1 nurse per 100 schools, so some staff member or even bus driver, would have to administer the tests.  The time alone is idiotic.  Besides no one is giving any fucking test on my kid's without a parent present.  Even if it's just a saliva test.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...-in-schools-amid-rising-case-counts-1.5865204


Lol wtf, the school district I came up through had a nurse at every school.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 10, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Lol wtf, the school district I came up through had a nurse at every school.



When I was in school we had one in every school.  They cancelled that here year's ago.  They just hired 500 just for COVID-19 in the Fall but there's almost 5000 schools.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

Did someone hack his account?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348673192609591296


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 11, 2021)

This does not surprise me at all.  Imagine all of the tragedies we could have prevented over the past century, if only the Fucker's in power;  listened to the intelligence.



> The small, specialized unit within the Canadian military's intelligence branch began producing warnings about COVID-19 in early January of last year — assessments based largely on classified allied intelligence. Those warnings generally were three weeks ahead of other open sources, say defence insiders.  But documents show the Public Health Agency of Canada's (PHAC) COVID-19 rapid risk assessments — which politicians and public servants used to guide their choices in early days of the pandemic — contained no input from the military's warnings, which remain classified.  Three of the five PHAC risk assessments — obtained under access to information law by one of the country's leading intelligence experts and CBC News — show federal health officials relying almost exclusively on assessments from the World Health Organization.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-military-medical-intelligence-1.5866627?__vfz=medium=sharebar


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 11, 2021)

Then this. 

Canada begins vaccinating inmates in federal prisons with no active coronavirus cases


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 11, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> This does not surprise me at all.  Imagine all of the tragedies we could have prevented over the past century, if only the Fucker's in power;  listened to the intelligence.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-military-medical-intelligence-1.5866627?__vfz=medium=sharebar



You know who else "began producing warnings" about the same time?

<-------This motherfucker right here ;)

@ODgreen Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic for (mainly) roundworms and threadworms, can be affective against others (mainly tropical diseases).  Some data shows it works against COVID by inhibiting it from growing within the cell.  There was a paper published last summer (June maybe) in _Antiviral Research_.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

Lockdowns end the moment Biden takes the Oath of Office.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 11, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Lockdowns end the moment Biden takes the Oath of Office.



Not for nothing, that would make me happy, for two reasons:  1) lockdowns are over, and 2) we were right all along.


----------



## Brill (Jan 11, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Not for nothing, that would make me happy, for two reasons:  1) lockdowns are over, and 2) we were right all along.



Harris & Biden were the first to be for againsting lockdowns. <—- not a typo but Bidenspeak.


----------



## AWP (Jan 11, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Did someone hack his account?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348673192609591296



I thoroughly believe that a lot of world leaders woke up one morning and found themselves minus some 0's (or even commas) in their bank accounts and "suddenly" everything started to open up.


----------



## AWP (Jan 11, 2021)

Why Florida has a Covid Problem by Some Dumbass War Profiteer

Dec. 20 I flew non-stop from a nation on the Arabian Gulf to Chicago and from there to Orlando. The Gulf to Chicago plane had maybe 50 people so spacing wasn't an issue. I noticed in the Gulf airport that masks were generally worn, but a number had their noses  sticking out. Ugh. Whatever.

Then I hit I hit Chicago. The number of folks doing the "nose outside the mask" (NOTM) thing went up. Social distancing? Hahahaha! Some earlier observations:

Covid-19

At the end of three "too short" weeks I returned to that Gulf nation via the same path. So...Florida:

Sea World did a good job, but none of the employees enforced properly wearing a mask. I noticed that NOT A SINGLE COMPANY enforces this. Publix, Home Depot, BJ's (more on this later), Costco, local restaurants...no one. At BJ's you could walk in without a mask and the guys at the door were mob witnesses because they "ain't seen nothing." Social distancing? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! GTFO of here, no such thing in FL. Elderly and don't want to roll with a mask? No problem. You know how many folks I saw with multiple obvious comorbidities without a mask or NOTM? Look up the Star Trek episode "The Trouble With Tribbles." I didn't see a single employee at ANY business enforce a mask mandate.

So, we've been told masks work, social distancing works, but to do both is a best practice. Not in Florida. In Florida you can't swing a dead Biden voter without seeing someone with an improperly worn mask and/or social distancing problem. Businesses are putting up signs that state the mask "rules" but refuse to enforce those or a population cap in their stores. Florida is wide open. Period. Dot. End of Story.

Shifting gears slightly, my daughter works at a ski resort in CO. Her manager told her that geting CV-19 is inevitable and to not worry about it; go to work peasant. My daughter's improving, but damn...that's a management take? Money talks, Covid walks.

Folks, want to avoid Covid or reduce your risk? Here's one simple trick to help:

You're on your own. Do the right thing. Wash your damn hands, keeps your dick/ woman parts beaters away from your face, stay the fuck away from people, and whatever else is recommended. Protect yourselves. Protect your parents. Do the right goddamn thing for once in your miserable lives so we can put this shit behind us.

Unless you live in Florida, because...reasons or "freedom" or some such shit.

Upon my return to the Gulf nation I was entered into a database and issued a GPS tracker. I take Covid test in 8 days and if negative have the "smart watch" removed in 10. Until then I "self" quarantined in my hotel room. Yay for booze and video games.

Author's note: I have jet lag like a motherfucker so any typos or other "wordy" issues are my own.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

Rona gonna Rona. I seriously don't think face coverings work at all. I also don't think N-95s work either.  Want something that works?  Full MOP.

Also...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348741451526533120


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 11, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Rona gonna Rona. I seriously don't think face coverings work at all. I also don't think N-95s work either.  Want something that works?  Full MOP.
> 
> Also...
> 
> ...



Face coverings work, or else we wouldn't have seen such a drastic drop in standard cold/flu.  BUT they are not as effective as the magic mask morons think they are, especially if your nose is sticking out or you've been using the same disposable mask since March.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Face coverings work, or else we wouldn't have seen such a drastic drop in standard cold/flu.  BUT they are not as effective as the magic mask morons think they are, especially if your nose is sticking out or you've been using the same disposable mask since March.



Personally, we have 20 manufactured face coverings in our house.  We wash all of them every week.  Sometimes I take two with me. I'm surprised we haven't gotten it.  

I was speaking with a friend last week who has "recovered".  She was asymptomatic, so was her mother and sister.  She didn't get it from her family though.  But according to her, all the women in her family would have had no idea they had it outside of testing.  But her dad who's in great shape, walks up and down mountains sheep hunting, was knocked on his ass.


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 11, 2021)

I'm curious, for those on the forum, or their family members that have gotten the Rona, how many have O+ blood type?


----------



## Dame (Jan 11, 2021)

AWP said:


> Why Florida has a Covid Problem by Some Dumbass War Profiteer
> whole post


Wow. You cannot go anywhere in NV (including the airport) without a face mask. It is absolutely not an option.
Which is why folks here are so pissed off at the governor. He gets it after wearing a mask constantly and then blames everyone in the state with, "you people need to get your act together."
Dude, fuck you.
I, and everyone I know, wears a mask just like you, every damn day. Get a fucking clue. If you got it, they don't fucking work.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 11, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Personally, we have 20 manufactured face coverings in our house.  We wash all of them every week.  Sometimes I take two with me. I'm surprised we haven't gotten it.
> 
> I was speaking with a friend last week who has "recovered".  She was asymptomatic, so was her mother and sister.  She didn't get it from her family though.  But according to her, all the women in her family would have had no idea they had it outside of testing.  But her dad who's in great shape, walks up and down mountains sheep hunting, was knocked on his ass.



From everything I've read, the key factor in infection, is prolonged exposure.  So a mask just adds time to how long.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 11, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> From everything I've read, the key factor in infection, is prolonged exposure.  So a mask just adds time to how long.


Well the boss was exposed for over an hour by her esthetician back in November.  She isolated herself, waited for the viral load and appointments to open up, tested, then negative.


----------



## AWP (Jan 12, 2021)

Dame said:


> Wow. You cannot go anywhere in NV (including the airport) without a face mask. It is absolutely not an option.
> Which is why folks here are so pissed off at the governor. He gets it after wearing a mask constantly and then blames everyone in the state with, "you people need to get your act together."
> Dude, fuck you.
> I, and everyone I know, wears a mask just like you, every damn day. Get a fucking clue. If you got it, they don't fucking work.



I look at it this way: wearing a mask costs me nothing. NOTHING. I have no problem wearing a mask. Do I believe in them? Eh... Do I think the gov't should require them? Let's go with "No." Would I wear one without a gov't requirement? Yes.

One reason I would wear a mask is surprisingly for others. Wearing one costs me nothing. Some people are understandably freaked out by the Rona. I get it. If I can take the edge off of a grocery store cashier by wearing a mask? I'm onboard. The mental health of our country as a whole is in the toilet and if wearing a mask puts an "essential employee" at ease for a moment, I'm all in. 

Just don't tell me I HAVE to wear one.


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 12, 2021)

AWP said:


> I look at it this way: *wearing a mask costs me nothing. NOTHING*. I have no problem wearing a mask. Do I believe in them? Eh... Do I think the gov't should require them? Let's go with "No." Would I wear one without a gov't requirement? Yes.
> 
> One reason I would wear a mask is surprisingly for others. Wearing one costs me nothing. Some people are understandably freaked out by the Rona. I get it. If I can take the edge off of a grocery store cashier by wearing a mask? I'm onboard. The mental health of our country as a whole is in the toilet and if wearing a mask puts an "essential employee" at ease for a moment, I'm all in.
> 
> Just don't tell me I HAVE to wear one.


Not to be the world's biggest pedant, but I've been seeing variations of this and it simply isn't true.  It _does_ cost you something, even if you don't value the cost.

People buy masks (money out of pocket).  People maintain/wash masks (time and money out of pocket).  Putting masks on and taking them off costs time.  Wearing masks all the time has an impact on your breathing -> physiological homeostasis (calories out of pocket).  Psychological/emotional costs for some.  Respirational costs for others.  Opportunity costs for all.

Again, *to be very clear*, I'm not making any judgement over the value/magnitude of these costs (_I am not _saying that that these costs are even significant), nor whether they should be cheerfully shouldered or not.  But I'm generally against hyperbolic language.  And we are at the supermassive blackhole intersection between ['volume/spiciness' of one's statement == how much emotion/virtue/magnitude one wishes to signal] and [logical blackhole from rampant and obscene misuse of the word "literal" in literally any situation but that in which it applies].  So from time to time, I feel like it's worth pointing out brute reality.


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 12, 2021)

Board and Seize said:


> Not to be the world's biggest pedant, but I've been seeing variations of this and it simply isn't true.  It _does_ cost you something, even if you don't value the cost.


I think @AWP was speaking from the aspect of being a war profiteer where money no longer holds value to him. ;)

On a serious note, if I'm supposed to be scared of the Rona then I should see some Dustin Hoffman 'Outbreak' level of response with field hospitals running day and night in the hot spots. But I don't. So I'm not. Now that Trump is gone, it will be the responsibility of the media to unfuck their overdramatic reporting of everything going on to give Biden a win he doesn't deserve.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 12, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> I think @AWP was speaking from the aspect of being a war profiteer where money no longer holds value to him. ;)
> 
> On a serious note, if I'm supposed to be scared of the Rona then I should see some Dustin Hoffman 'Outbreak' level of response with field hospitals running day and night in the hot spots. But I don't. So I'm not. Now that Trump is gone, it will be the responsibility of the media to unfuck their overdramatic reporting of everything going on to give Biden a win he doesn't deserve.



OMGEEE THERE ARE ONLY 1% vacancies in SoCAL ICUS!!!!

A FAT ZERO requests from Garcetti, the board of idiot queens, or Newsom for federal support. Also, as I said previously, LA County collapsed their surge capacity. So they have to ability to fire, maneuver, and adjust. But they won't. Because we know why. 

AZ also collapsed its surge capacity, but our surge capacity was actually built into hospital design, so if we actually had weeks of no room we could open the capacity up.  But given how ICUs have been run across this country for decades due to cost, we still have plenty of space.  ICUs run at 80-90% capacity all year, it's not a phenomenon because of the Rona.  Only because of the Rona are those dashboards under public scrutiny though.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 12, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> I forgot about this bullshit.  There's 1 nurse per 100 schools, so some staff member or even bus driver, would have to administer the tests.  The time alone is idiotic.  Besides no one is giving any fucking test on my kid's without a parent present.  Even if it's just a saliva test.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...-in-schools-amid-rising-case-counts-1.5865204



I just got cut off by a fucking school bus yesterday. Lol.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 12, 2021)

Muppet said:


> I just got cut off by a fucking school bus yesterday. Lol.



Stop driving like a grandma.  lol


----------



## Muppet (Jan 12, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Stop driving like a grandma.  lol



Fuck dem kids. I drive like Earnhardt in school zones!


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 12, 2021)

Muppet said:


> Fuck dem kids. I drive like Earnhardt in school zones!


_This is the way._


----------



## AWP (Jan 12, 2021)

Muppet said:


> Fuck dem kids. I drive like Earnhardt in school zones!


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 12, 2021)

Well fuck.  Forget the curfews, we're going worse than we were in the spring.

Ontario declares state of emergency and issues stay-at-home order as modelling warns of COVID-19 spike

And Québec, specifically Montréal has been the worst cases in Canada since the start. 

Montreal hospitals nearing critical triage point, when doctors must 'kill people' to save others


----------



## Polar Bear (Jan 12, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Well fuck.  Forget the curfews, we're going worse than we were in the spring.
> 
> Ontario declares state of emergency and issues stay-at-home order as modelling warns of COVID-19 spike
> 
> ...


Oh this is where I find out if Liam has done my bidding


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 12, 2021)

Polar Bear said:


> Oh this is where I find out if Liam has done my bidding



I should pull out the couches this week and see what he's been hiding.


----------



## Dame (Jan 12, 2021)

AWP said:


> I look at it this way: wearing a mask costs me nothing. NOTHING. I have no problem wearing a mask. Do I believe in them? Eh... Do I think the gov't should require them? Let's go with "No." Would I wear one without a gov't requirement? Yes.
> 
> One reason I would wear a mask is surprisingly for others. Wearing one costs me nothing. Some people are understandably freaked out by the Rona. I get it. If I can take the edge off of a grocery store cashier by wearing a mask? I'm onboard. The mental health of our country as a whole is in the toilet and if wearing a mask puts an "essential employee" at ease for a moment, I'm all in.
> 
> Just don't tell me I HAVE to wear one.





Board and Seize said:


> Not to be the world's biggest pedant, but I've been seeing variations of this and it simply isn't true.  It _does_ cost you something, even if you don't value the cost.
> 
> People buy masks (money out of pocket).  People maintain/wash masks (time and money out of pocket).  Putting masks on and taking them off costs time.  Wearing masks all the time has an impact on your breathing -> physiological homeostasis (calories out of pocket).  Psychological/emotional costs for some.  Respirational costs for others.  Opportunity costs for all.
> 
> Again, *to be very clear*, I'm not making any judgement over the value/magnitude of these costs (_I am not _saying that that these costs are even significant), nor whether they should be cheerfully shouldered or not.  But I'm generally against hyperbolic language.  And we are at the supermassive blackhole intersection between ['volume/spiciness' of one's statement == how much emotion/virtue/magnitude one wishes to signal] and [logical blackhole from rampant and obscene misuse of the word "literal" in literally any situation but that in which it applies].  So from time to time, I feel like it's worth pointing out brute reality.


I applaud anyone who can stand to wear a mask all the time. But I can't. They bother me tremendously for many reasons. But I've been told I _must_ so I will be writing off any cost as a "uniform" required for work. But the truth is, they are required in order to go anywhere. I am beyond saddened by where we are as a country right now. At least I will be able to say I did what they said when I get it again (cuz yeah, pretty sure I had it in March20).


----------



## chickenrappa (Jan 12, 2021)

Dame said:


> I applaud anyone who can stand to wear a mask all the time. But I can't. They bother me tremendously for many reasons. But I've been told I _must_ so I will be writing off any cost as a "uniform" required for work. But the truth is, they are required in order to go anywhere. I am beyond saddened by where we are as a country right now. At least I will be able to say I did what they said when I get it again (cuz yeah, pretty sure I had it in March20).


I wore mine all day every day for work because it was required and I still got it.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 12, 2021)

chickenrappa said:


> I wore mine all day every day for work because it was required and I still got it.



I think that's the key part the morons making up the rules will never admit.  Cloth mask's were to keep the masses from buying all the n95 respirators.  Then to bring the scared out of their house's.  Now here we are with everyone wearing them and it's still spreading.  I just wish they'd be honest with everyone and let adults, adult.


----------



## AWP (Jan 12, 2021)

chickenrappa said:


> I wore mine all day every day for work because it was required and I still got it.



I'm sure I'm repeating myself, regardless, my daughter is experiencing Corona-19  Round 2 as I type this.

As a computer guy familiar with processes and risk management, we can only do so much before it walks (directly) into our lives.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 12, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> I think that's the key part the morons making up the rules will never admit.  Cloth mask's were to keep the masses from buying all the n95 respirators.  Then to bring the scared out of their house's.  Now here we are with everyone wearing them and it's still spreading.  I just wish they'd be honest with everyone and let adults, adult.



I'm sure this sounds flippant.  But virus GONNA VIRUS.  If we want to live in a truly free and open society, then we must protect our freedoms, or if we are to somehow sacrifice some of that, then the government literally needs to compensate me for inhibiting my ability to earn a wage.  However, I'm against that as well.  I have literally DONE EVERYTHING.  I'm lucky, for now, to still have a job.  But my company has been in a hiring freeze since August, they told me to apply for a promotion, a week later with the hiring freeze they cancelled the requisition.  Of course I could proceed and apply somewhere else etc, but I'm trying to grow with a fledgling Sports organization and I like it here.  

However, I went to LA and I talked about it in this very thread.  The only thing going on in that place is businesses dying everywhere.  The homeless problem is legit exploding because people are losing everything, and it's not that they're getting evicted.  It's that they can't afford to eat because there are no jobs. Orange County, SB County, SD County, Riverside County, they're better than LA County.  But barely.  Think about how many people Disneyland employs, none of those people have jobs now.  

So, we can either cut the bullshit and open this thing up, or we can continue into a spiral of a great depression that is coming fast as hell.  

As far as this reaching out and touching me or someone I know.  Already happened. (Now several times over)  Views remain the same.  

We have an unhealthy population, literally 40% of people out there are OBESE and have a FUPA.  I'm doing everything I can to get in shape and support my immune system with good food and vitamins.  But from my rally point in the southwest.  The whole people getting out and exercising lasted like a month [at best].  I noticed how the powers that be stopped recommending exercise.

/rant over


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 12, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> You know who else "began producing warnings" about the same time?
> 
> <-------This motherfucker right here ;)
> 
> @ODgreen Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic for (mainly) roundworms and threadworms, can be affective against others (mainly tropical diseases).  Some data shows it works against COVID by inhibiting it from growing within the cell.  There was a paper published last summer (June maybe) in _Antiviral Research_.


There is new data all the way up to December! It's taking a while for docs to catch up to it. I've had many MD's outright blow me off, but the common denominator was that they ALL cited the old data without being aware or willing to discuss the new data. The FLCCC (Frontline Covid something-rather acronym) has gathered together the studies and data into a single manuscript and it is available on their website.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 13, 2021)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

Lol...





__ https://www.facebook.com/usawtfm/posts/10159557535183606


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 14, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Lol...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not always an option. I believe I remember when we were forced to take an H1N1 vaccine a while back. Of course there was the forced incarceration of anyone that hadn't taken the anthrax shots.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> not always an option. I believe I remember when we were forced to take an H1N1 vaccine a while back. Of course there was the forced incarceration of anyone that hadn't taken the anthrax shots.



I remember when I was the S-1 and we had 10 dudes that refused to take a flu vaccine.  I was like...geeze, thanks for me having to continuously blast your commander on on his Command and Shaft slides.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 14, 2021)

Well.. that didn't take long...

You Must Show a Negative COVID Test Before Flying to the U.S.


----------



## Board and Seize (Jan 14, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Well.. that didn't take long...
> 
> You Must Show a Negative COVID Test Before Flying to the U.S.


Here's the order itself.

Appears legit.


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 14, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Face coverings work, or else we wouldn't have seen such a drastic drop in standard cold/flu.  BUT they are not as effective as the magic mask morons think they are, especially if your nose is sticking out or you've been using the same disposable mask since March.


Is it that or just fewer large setting social interactions. There seems to be enough evidence to suggest masks are simply a feel good measure and the real benefit is distancing, which is fine by me because I despise most people. 😊


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 14, 2021)

Question for the group.. The command is giving us access to the vaccine. If I choose to get it, am I required to take a picture of both me receiving it and my new CDC papers on social media? Just wondering if that is part of the agreement or something..


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 14, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.. The command is giving us access to the vaccine. If I choose to get it, am I required to take a picture of both me receiving it and my new CDC papers on social media? Just wondering if that is part of the agreement or something..



Only if you want to virtue signal....


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jan 14, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Question for the group.. The command is giving us access to the vaccine. If I choose to get it, am I required to take a picture of both me receiving it and my new CDC papers on social media? Just wondering if that is part of the agreement or something..


I seriously can't tell if you're joking or being serious. Especially, after some of the true stuff posted in this thread.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 14, 2021)

So it's stay at home but not really.  I was out today and haven't seen so many people on the road's in a while.  Stores were pretty quiet though.

Stay-at-home order in effect but cops can't randomly stop people


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 14, 2021)

WHO finally arrive in Wuhan to investigate the origin of the virus. Over a year late all evidence removed or tampered with I'm sure.


----------



## AWP (Jan 14, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> WHO finally arrive in Wuhan to investigate the origin of the virus. Over a year late all evidence removed or tampered with I'm sure.



My hatred for humanity knows no bounds. I'm of to bed. In theory.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 14, 2021)

So, what the hell is going on.  Or is it just that Biden cured the Rona? 

Mayor Lori Lightfoot Wants To Reopen Restaurants And Bars 'As Quickly As Possible' To Reduce Risk Of Underground Parties

Now, pro lockdown Mayor Lori Lightfoot is no longer pro lockdown?


----------



## chickenrappa (Jan 15, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, what the hell is going on.  Or is it just that Biden cured the Rona?
> 
> Mayor Lori Lightfoot Wants To Reopen Restaurants And Bars 'As Quickly As Possible' To Reduce Risk Of Underground Parties
> 
> Now, pro lockdown Mayor Lori Lightfoot is no longer pro lockdown?


She's super two faced. She is and she isn't, all the time. She's one of the largest pandering politicians I have ever seen. Remember when the riots were happening downtown? She was all cool with them smashing tens of millions of dollars of stuff, burning things, attacking police officers, no problem. Go near her neighborhood to protest her? Woah man, better get a battalion of NG over there to protect her. I didn't vote for her, and that's a new reason to convince people not to reelect her. :)


----------



## Muppet (Jan 15, 2021)

This fucking pandemic has led to government overreach on both the federal and state level. Whats worse are the Americans that are terrified, giving up rights for security.

Wait, didn't Ben Franklin say something about this over 200 years ago?

Look, I get it, it's a pandemic. I never thought I would see one in my career in medicine. Here we are. Yeah, I can understand the anxiety and fear, I've had Americans die on my "watch" as a medic, friends/co workers got it, most did fine, a few not so much.

But....

At what time do we, the people realize that government as a whole are testing us to see how we will react in the future?

Once power is conceded, it's easier next time, and yet, the virtue signaling retards are buying into it, just like my bloodline did, to the box cars and camps.

No thanks. Time to rebel...


----------



## Steve1839 (Jan 15, 2021)

Perhaps of interest...

Covid-19 Vaccine Side Effects: Norway Warns of Risks for Sick Patients Over 80 - Bloomberg


----------



## Gunz (Jan 15, 2021)

BloodStripe said:


> WHO finally arrive in Wuhan to investigate the origin of the virus. Over a year late all evidence removed or tampered with I'm sure.



I think it's pretty fucking glaringly obvious that this shit wasn't caused by some chick eating a fucking bat at the Huanan seafood market or whateverthehell they've been claiming...when a level 4 virology lab is doing experiments on fucking bat viruses just down the street. And now as the WHO team shows up, the CCP is trotting out the bat researcher who _disappeared for months_ and giving her the hero treatment.

And who the hell sells bats at a seafood market?

Covid: China honours 'Bat Woman' of controversial Wuhan lab


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 15, 2021)

Gunz said:


> I think it's pretty fucking glaringly obvious that this shit wasn't caused by some chick eating a fucking bat at the Huanan seafood market or whateverthehell they've been claiming...when a level 4 virology lab is doing experiments on fucking bat viruses just down the street. And now as the WHO team shows up, the CCP is trotting out the bat researcher who _disappeared for months_ and giving her the hero treatment.
> 
> And who the hell sells bats at a seafood market?
> 
> Covid: China honours 'Bat Woman' of controversial Wuhan lab



I believe it was actually a pangolin, but my information is limited to South Park at this point. 

My only addition would be that it might be correlation vs causation, but from the reverse perspective. I'm sure @Board and Seize could offer a much more elegant way to describe it. There is a possibility the lab is there because of the risks with those types of infections vectors in that area. The lab looks 1st world quality and super modern, so suggesting that it originated from the lab by accident sounds incredibly unlikely. The alternative would be that it was intentional.

Just my poorly researched thought experiment


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 15, 2021)

At least one city is still going hard in the paint for lockdowns I guess.  Geeze.

LA Officials ‘Considering All Options’ For Further Lockdowns as COVID-19 Rages On



Florida173 said:


> I believe it was actually a pangolin, but my information is limited to South Park at this point.
> 
> My only addition would be that it might be correlation vs causation, but from the reverse perspective. I'm sure @Board and Seize could offer a much more elegant way to describe it. There is a possibility the lab is there because of the risks with those types of infections vectors in that area. The lab looks 1st world quality and super modern, so suggesting that it originated from the lab by accident sounds incredibly unlikely. The alternative would be that it was intentional.
> 
> Just my poorly researched thought experiment



The Wuhan Virology Lab has been in Wuhan for decades,  it served as the setting for a fictional virus ground zero in Dean Koontz book _The Eyes of Darkness._


----------



## Gunz (Jan 15, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> I believe it was actually a pangolin, but my information is limited to South Park at this point.
> 
> My only addition would be that it might be correlation vs causation, but from the reverse perspective. I'm sure @Board and Seize could offer a much more elegant way to describe it. There is a possibility the lab is there because of the risks with those types of infections vectors in that area. The lab looks 1st world quality and super modern, so suggesting that it originated from the lab by accident sounds incredibly unlikely. The alternative would be that it was intentional.
> 
> Just my poorly researched thought experiment



Yes, that's reasonable. 

But my faith in Communist regimes and their record of safety, accountability and transparency evaporated years before Chernobyl; and that only served as proof beyond doubt of my wisdom in not believing a fucking thing they say--especially when it concerns potentially catastrophic international consequences due to their negligence. 

And after having the shit, I'm even more convinced it was engineered.

And who sells pangolins in a seafood market?


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 15, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> At least one city is still going hard in the paint for lockdowns I guess.  Geeze.
> 
> LA Officials ‘Considering All Options’ For Further Lockdowns as COVID-19 Rages On
> 
> ...



Looks like its upgrade to a biosafety level 4 (BSL-4) lab wasn't until 2003; which aligns well with the initial SARS outbreaks in the area. but I am out of my depth


----------



## Muppet (Jan 15, 2021)

At this point, I'd figure we'd be at the "28 days" or "28 weeks" later zombie movies on FX.

Rather, we as a people are virtue signaling with masks, vaccine pics (I got my first one) and hating each other over politics when, as you all know, these fucking politicians don't care for us. They were bought out decades ago by big money, big tech. 

Jefferson was right regarding politics, Orwell was right with 1984 and Carlin was also right.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 15, 2021)

Chicken of the Cave.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 15, 2021)

Like with my politics, my view on this hasn't moved.  Everyone else however?  Well they don't know their ass from their mouth.  Make me God-Emperor, thanks. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349899411598569473
How many pro-lockdown editorials did Newsweek put out?  When are the retractions coming?  How much did they use their platform to help destroy businesses?


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 15, 2021)

Now this interesting.  I don't care, the Army already had my DNA but I can see a lot of these voluntary samples being contaminated with anything your imagination can come up with. 

Blood kits sent to 48,000 Canadians to survey extent of COVID-19


----------



## Brill (Jan 15, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> How many pro-lockdown editorials did Newsweek put out?  When are the retractions coming?  How much did they use their platform to help destroy businesses?


Why would they retract? They don’t care what anyone thinks on the Right; the Left doesn’t give a damn as long as Right (Trump, Conservativism, etc) is damaged.

Liberal businesses were just collateral damage.


----------



## frostyred (Jan 15, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Now this interesting.  I don't care, the Army already had my DNA but I can see a lot of these voluntary samples being contaminated with anything your imagination can come up with.
> 
> Blood kits sent to 48,000 Canadians to survey extent of COVID-19


"The samples tested positive for COVID... and four new forms of beaver gonorrhea we've never seen before."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 15, 2021)

I guess the there just isn't much demand for healthcare workers to get the vaccine...so hospitals are incentivizing with Super Bowl packages?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350219637909311492


----------



## Polar Bear (Jan 16, 2021)

Locked for 24hrs


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 17, 2021)

Open for business.  Keep the posts relevant.

My money is on these scientists disappearing.

Scientists at Wuhan lab were bitten in cave of Covid-infected bats


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 17, 2021)

So this is concerning about deaths post-vaccination.  @Devildoc have you been following this stuff?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Some interesting graphs that were in the Financial Times and shared by Rep Massie.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1350857964190621703
Free to read: Coronavirus tracked: has the epidemic peaked near you?


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 17, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> So this is concerning about deaths post-vaccination.  @Devildoc have you been following this stuff?
> 
> Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
> 
> ...



The deaths in America post-vaccination is about 0.0037% (That is, the deaths of people who were vaccinated).  fewer people have died after getting this vaccine then who died after flu vaccine. So right now I'm not terribly concerned. In fact, statistically doesn't even warrant the raise of an eyebrow. I'm sure they will find out if correlation equals causation or if the death was something from something entirely different. 

I know Norway has made a big deal of the people have died after vaccine, but I think all of them were over 80 and were "very frail" (whatever that means).


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 17, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> I know Norway has made a big deal



The Norwegian authorities seem to be doing a good 'ol "nothing to see here, folks", although I am inclined to believe them when they say that "the number of incidents so far is not alarming, and in line with expectations." 

Did they really expect this to happen? Is there a precedent with other inoculations that would lead them to these expectations?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 17, 2021)

If you are missing a post from the past couple days, I cleaned up some of the distractions that were causing unnecessary angst.  

Post in Peace.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 17, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> The Norwegian authorities seem to be doing a good 'ol "nothing to see here, folks", although I am inclined to believe them when they say that "the number of incidents so far is not alarming, and in line with expectations."
> 
> Did they really expect this to happen? Is there a precedent with other inoculations that would lead them to these expectations?



So far I've not seen enough data to make a educated guess one way, or the other. One of the biggest false conclusions people draw looking at the stuff is that correlation equals causation.  I don't know why those people died... I don't know if it's related to the vaccine, If they had other issues, or what.  For example, we see similar mortality rates after flu vaccine as well.

Norway has been an interesting case study, I think they found out after the fact that doing nothing wasn't going to work and the hope for herd mentality wasn't quite the boon they thought it was.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 17, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> So far I've not seen enough data to make a educated guess one way, or the other. One of the biggest false conclusions people draw looking at the stuff is that correlation equals causation.  I don't know why those people died... I don't know if it's related to the vaccine, If they had other issues, or what.  For example, we see similar mortality rates after flu vaccine as well.
> 
> Norway has been an interesting case study, I think they found out after the fact that doing nothing wasn't going to work and the hope for herd mentality wasn't quite the boon they thought it was.



I actively resist the urges to connect correlations and causations together.

One of my friends shared this with me; please ignore the click-bait title of the video. It's an Irish professor named Dolores Cahill discussing a study from 2012. What are your thoughts on what she is saying?

 MRNA "VACCINATIONS"


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 17, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> I actively resist the urges to connect correlations and causations together.
> 
> One of my friends shared this with me; please ignore the click-bait title of the video. It's an Irish professor named Dolores Cahill discussing a study from 2012. What are your thoughts on what she is saying?
> 
> MRNA "VACCINATIONS"



Same Professor...  Maybe research things further. 

UCD professor asked to resign from EU committee over Covid-19 claims


Also, your previous post was not necessary.  If you want to stay in the attention of the staff, you've got our attention.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 17, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> I actively resist the urges to connect correlations and causations together.
> 
> One of my friends shared this with me; please ignore the click-bait title of the video. It's an Irish professor named Dolores Cahill discussing a study from 2012. What are your thoughts on what she is saying?
> 
> MRNA "VACCINATIONS"


Interesting food for thought.

I'd also like to see more follow-up on the CRS-based deaths in the SARS vaccine patient tests she cited that undergirds her argument against taking the current the COVID-19 vaccines.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 17, 2021)

Post deleted.

I read through the forum and see the humor others use here. I'm not trying to upset, just be light hearted.



RackMaster said:


> Same Professor... Maybe research things further.


The video was sent to me recently. I am not sharing it with others precisely because I haven't researched it, and I am perfectly okay accepting that I got my hands dirty with bad intel. I can tell from reading through the forums that even veteran members post unsubstantiated bullshit accidentally from time to time and ya'll are quick to smell it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 17, 2021)

Oh, the other thing that came up while the thread was closed.  

Florida data scientist in battle with state over Covid dashboard plans to turn herself in


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 17, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> Post deleted.
> 
> I read through the forum and see the humor others use here. I'm not trying to upset, just be light hearted.
> 
> ...



The oldest advice on the board, read more and post less.   We're not trying to silence you but take some more time to understand the dynamics here.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 17, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> take some more time to understand the dynamics here.



I understand. No offense taken.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 19, 2021)

The truth shall set you free or in this case, get you disappeared. 

Wuhan medics 'knew virus was deadly and spreading among humans'


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 19, 2021)

Because our Prime Minister is a fucking moron, other politicians have resorted to begging Biden for vaccines. 

Ontario premier pleads with incoming Biden administration for COVID-19 vaccine help


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 19, 2021)

At least your prime minister doesn't look like he's watching you eat a banana from across the room:


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 19, 2021)

ODgreen said:


> At least your prime minister doesn't look like he's watching you eat a banana from across the room:
> 
> View attachment 38501



Maybe not but he sure is fucking you.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 19, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Maybe not but he sure is fucking you.



I feel like you are probably the last person to talk shit about another country's Prime Minister...


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 19, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> I feel like you are probably the last person to talk shit about another country's Prime Minister...


America right now:


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 19, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> I feel like you are probably the last person to talk shit about another country's Prime Minister...



I was talking about mine.


----------



## ODgreen (Jan 19, 2021)

Comrade of mine from the IDF lives in Toronto and just about had an aneurysm when they passed those gun laws recently (forget what it was exactly). Homeboy is probably equivalent to a platoon with what he has. I told him to buy some cosmoline so he could both lube his guns to bury his cache and lube his anus for Trudeau was coming to fuck them both.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 20, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Regarding the American, I think punishment is deserved. I think what I would do is fine the shit out of her, give her a massive sentence to get headlines around the world (to show there are consequences, and that we’re not playing), and then the day after Christmas release her on “compassionate grounds” or on appeal or some such.  * I don’t think anyone’s interest are served by lengthy sentences* over something like this.
> 
> So ultimately it’s *token jail time* (but you spend Christmas in the slammer). But that big ass fine?  Yeah we’re keeping that. Being stupid SHOULD hurt.


follow up on this story:

Georgia teen jailed in Cayman Islands for violating COVID restrictions says 'I deserved it'



> The Georgia teenager who was jailed for just over a month in the Cayman Islands for knowingly violating coronavirus restrictions said "*I deserved it*," according to media reports.
> 
> The pair was originally sentenced to *four months each in prison, 40 hours of community service and $2,600 in fines*. The prison sentences were eventually reduced to two months each. Both served 32 days before they were released last week.




What I didn't know until now is that she went to my undergrad alma mater:




> Mack, a* Mercer University* pre-med student, arrived on the island on Nov. 27 and was required to quarantine under Caymanian COVID restriction measures. Two days later, she removed her GPS bracelet and went to watch her boyfriend, Vanjae Ramgeet, 24, a professional jet-ski racer from the Cayman Islands, compete in an event.



Like I said before, being stupid SHOULD hurt.  Glad this situation is now resolved, and she's not trying to make it out like she was innocent of the crime.


----------



## Brill (Jan 20, 2021)

@Devildoc so you have to test positive and show symptoms or two tests to be positive now? Is that right?

WHO Information Notice for IVD Users 2020/05


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 21, 2021)

COVID is over in DC, I guess. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352310948539858950


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 21, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> COVID is over in DC, I guess.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352310948539858950



Probably just falling in line with most places around here. We've been back past 50% capacity for like 6 months in VA, or at least it feels like it


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 21, 2021)

And then there's this.  

Ontario urged to suspend need for consent before withdrawing life support when COVID crushes hospitals


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 21, 2021)

And what cozying up to China gets you. 

Diane Francis: Was the botched vaccine roll-out a result of Trudeau placing too much faith in China?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 21, 2021)

States wanted the ability to buy their vaccines directly from Pfizer after they blamed the Trump administration for the Federal Government's distribution plan...but Biden Administration said to eat it I guess. 

Some states want to buy their own COVID vaccines. The Biden administration says no.


----------



## compforce (Jan 22, 2021)

Alrighty then...   Can't wait to see the media narrative on this:



> Nationwide, new coronavirus cases have fallen 21 percent in the last two weeks, according to a New York Times database, and some experts have suggested this could mark the start of a shifting course after nearly four months of ever-worsening case totals



U.S. Coronavirus Cases Are Falling, but Variants Could Erase Progress – DNyuz


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 22, 2021)

compforce said:


> Alrighty then...   Can't wait to see the media narrative on this:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Coronavirus Cases Are Falling, but Variants Could Erase Progress – DNyuz



Haven't you heard, COVID is over. All blame is to Trump. Also the Press Characterizing Fauci as a Trump Administration Holdover is hilarious. He is literally a holdover from the Reagan Administration.

Biden Announces Executive Actions Meant To Help Reopen Schools


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 22, 2021)

We've all been duped. Face masks: What's the difference between a cloth one and an FFP2?

"The public were advised to make their own masks or wear alternatives just to stop the competition with people working in health care"


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 22, 2021)

But they said it was all Trump's fault. 




> Critics have widely asserted that the CDC fumbled key decisions during the coronavirus scourge because then-President Donald Trump and his administration meddled in the agency’s operations and muzzled internal experts. The matter is now the subject of a congressional inquiry. Yet Reuters has found new evidence that the CDC’s response to the pandemic also was marred by actions - or inaction - by the agency’s career scientists and frontline staff.


Special Report: How U.S. CDC missed chances to spot COVID's silent spread


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 22, 2021)

Texas doctor fired, charged with stealing COVID-19 vaccine to give to his friends, family


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 22, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> But they said it was all Trump's fault.
> 
> 
> 
> Special Report: How U.S. CDC missed chances to spot COVID's silent spread



Fauci seems to give an interview every day, please show me how he was muzzled.


----------



## Brill (Jan 22, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Fauci seems to give an interview every day, please show me how he was muzzled.



He was only on one magazine cover this week. What happened to the surgeon general?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 22, 2021)

Brill said:


> He was only on one magazine cover this week. What happened to the surgeon general?



"We're gonna do great things for Black People, the greatest things."

"Oh, you served Trump?  You're Fired."


----------



## Brill (Jan 23, 2021)

The Bee at it again!

Miracle: CNN COVID Death Counter Begins Counting Backward


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 23, 2021)

Some info for the medical peeps.  

COVID-19: Montreal Heart Institute concludes colchicine tablet is effective


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 23, 2021)

Colchicine is an old-school NSAID, still use it to treat gout, it's better for gout than most of the others NSAIDs.  Conceptually I can understand why it would make sense as an anti-inflammatory, I don't understand how it is better at it than any of the others, though. I need to read some more of the literature.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 23, 2021)

No More Corona Virus in Michigan!

Indoor dining at Michigan restaurants, bars will reopen Feb. 1 at 25% capacity

ETA:  No more Corona Virus in Illinois, thank you uncle Joe.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353067307774353414


----------



## Salt USMC (Jan 23, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> No More Corona Virus in Michigan!
> 
> Indoor dining at Michigan restaurants, bars will reopen Feb. 1 at 25% capacity
> 
> ...


Wait, weren’t you for this?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 23, 2021)

Salt USMC said:


> Wait, weren’t you for this?



Oh I'm for the complete opening of the economy.  But this is only happening because Biden got inaugurated.  Florida has been open for months and nothing on their curve shows anything different compared to states of similar population with harsh lockdowns.  AZ is basically open, and our numbers per 100k are way under California which has hard lockdowns.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jan 24, 2021)

This just in...



Its science!!!!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 24, 2021)

Babylon Bee with the satire...but this is may as well not be the Bee.

Democrat States Follow The Science By Doing What Florida Did Back In May


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 24, 2021)




----------



## Brill (Jan 24, 2021)

But COVID isn’t political.

Sure, but the damn response absolutely is!


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 24, 2021)

This is our version of martial law.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/garneau-emergencies-act-pandemic-travel-1.5885770

And Biden restricting travel... I see a theme.

Biden to reinstate Covid travel restrictions Trump rescinded, impose new ban on South Africa


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 24, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> This is our version of martial law.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/garneau-emergencies-act-pandemic-travel-1.5885770
> 
> ...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353457301299068929


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 24, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353457301299068929



Yup.  Trudeau never shut down travel, not even the land border.  Millions cross daily, "essential" jobs and movement of goods.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 25, 2021)

I guess Corona is over in California even though their curve is insane.  Well, at least we can get back to normal?  That's what November was about right? Normalcy?  Hold the country hostage to get rid of a President to get back to Normalcy or some such?

CA to Roll Back Stay-at-Home Orders, Meaning Outdoor Dining Resumes Today


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 25, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> I guess Corona is over in California even though their curve is insane.  Well, at least we can get back to normal?  That's what November was about right? Normalcy?  Hold the country hostage to get rid of a President to get back to Normalcy or some such?
> 
> CA to Roll Back Stay-at-Home Orders, Meaning Outdoor Dining Resumes Today



These seem to all be somewhat contradictory to what is coming from our capitol.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 25, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> I guess Corona is over in California even though their curve is insane.  Well, at least we can get back to normal?  That's what November was about right? Normalcy?  Hold the country hostage to get rid of a President to get back to Normalcy or some such?
> 
> CA to Roll Back Stay-at-Home Orders, Meaning Outdoor Dining Resumes Today


Stay At Home order mostly rescinded.  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353730492550418432
But LA County trying hard to keep shit locked down and make more homeless people.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh, but the rona is not political. Fucking blow by short Irish Jew Johnson.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jan 25, 2021)

Muppet said:


> Oh, but the rona is not political. Fucking blow by short Irish Jew Johnson.


Johnson is not an ethnicity, it is likely a last name or a nickname for a very small penis.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh man, I hope she wasn't American.  Come onnnnnn Canada!!!

Video shows foreign woman lash out when asked to wear mask on Taiwan train | Taiwan News | 2021/01/18



> On Sunday, a foreign woman was seen riding a Taiwan Railways Administration (TRA) train bound for Taichung without a mask. When she was asked to wear a mask, she allegedly cursed fellow passengers, made rude hand gestures, and refused to cooperate with conductors and police officers.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 25, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Oh man, I hope she wasn't American.  Come onnnnnn Canada!!!
> 
> Video shows foreign woman lash out when asked to wear mask on Taiwan train | Taiwan News | 2021/01/18



It was suggested in the comments that she's a teacher there, but otherwise.. Was she just wearing the mask backwards?


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> Oh man, I hope she wasn't American.  Come onnnnnn Canada!!!
> 
> Video shows foreign woman lash out when asked to wear mask on Taiwan train | Taiwan News | 2021/01/18



Here's hoping she's a Brit.  lol.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh and when you may have given unelected bureaucrats to much power.

Braves co-owner covers outdoor hockey fine


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 25, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Oh and when you may have given unelected bureaucrats to much power.
> 
> Braves co-owner covers outdoor hockey fine



The officer involved in that is an idiot.  Like many all he's doing is eroding his support base.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 25, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Here's hoping she's a Brit.  lol.


No such luck!  Based on how she spoke English, she's either American or Canadian.

No 'ehs' or 'aboots' anywhere, though, so you may still be in luck.  

If you decide to watch the actual recording, though, please do yourself a favor and turn the volume low beforehand.  The clip begins with her screaming _*very*_ shrilly at the train attendants who are trying to reason with her.

You'll notice later in the video when she switches to Mandarin that her entire demeanor and tone has reversed, and she is nearly indistinguishable in both from the people who initially tried to calm her down.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 25, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> It was suggested in the comments that she's a teacher there, but otherwise.. Was she just wearing the mask backwards?


Apparently she didn't have her mask on and was asleep, and at some point was coughing.  She then swore at and flipped off other passengers who asked her to wear her mask, then when she complied after a conductor came, she put it on backwards and kept it under her nose.  Then she had a full-on meltdown and started screaming at the conductor for asking her to wear it correctly.

They eventually just kicked her off.


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 25, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> No such luck! Based on how she spoke English, she's either American or Canadian.
> 
> No 'ehs' or 'aboots' anywhere, though, so you may still be in luck.



This could be construed as profiling. I don't think that was your intent at all. Let's all be careful with that line, though. Just so we don't go off the rails in these threads.


----------



## Locksteady (Jan 25, 2021)

Kaldak said:


> This could be construed as profiling. I don't think that was your intent at all. Let's all be careful with that line, though. Just so we don't go off the rails in these threads.


Happy to comply.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 25, 2021)

Locksteady said:


> The clip begins with her screaming *very*_* shrilly*_ at the train attendants who are trying to reason with her.



you can't say that. It's a micro aggression


----------



## Brill (Jan 26, 2021)

From lockdown ala COVID or BLM riots? Lot of people dead from other people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353944205845000192


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

And the next Chinese doctor to disappear...

Wuhan doctor: China authorities stopped me sounding alarm on Covid

Oh and add this guy to the list. 

Relative of virus victim asks to meet WHO experts in Wuhan


----------



## AWP (Jan 26, 2021)

Best ways to die mysteriously:
- Question Putin
- Chinese COVID whistleblower
- Possessing evidence that will send Hillary Clinton to jail


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

And yet another scandal for Trudeau and the people won't care.

Diane Francis: Canadians deserve answers about botched vaccine roll-out


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 26, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> And yet another scandal for Trudeau and the people won't care.
> 
> Diane Francis: Canadians deserve answers about botched vaccine roll-out



So why fine a couple with the means to fly to the Yukon and get the vaccine?


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> So why fine a couple with the means to fly to the Yukon and get the vaccine?



It was scheduled for "at risk" First Nation's and the rhetoric around lock downs/travel restrictions has increased. 

There's this case to. 

Ontario hospital apologizes after staff director gets family member early COVID-19 vaccine


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 26, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> It was scheduled for "at risk" First Nation's and the rhetoric around lock downs/travel restrictions has increased.
> 
> There's this case to.
> 
> Ontario hospital apologizes after staff director gets family member early COVID-19 vaccine



But the hysteria around this "global pandemic" and how everyone is going to die.. how can you not assume people will do things to get "protected?"

I say fine them, let them appeal and have it dismissed


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 26, 2021)

New York is stumbling into ditches with its vaccine deployment.  Florida is not.  And New Yorkers are fleeing to Florida to get a vaccine.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> But the hysteria around this "global pandemic" and how everyone is going to die.. how can you not assume people will do things to get "protected?"
> 
> I say fine them, let them appeal and have it dismissed



So do I but the masses here are hysterical.   They want to destroy the careers of people that had the nerve to go on vacation over the holidays, which wasn't against any law.   Hence Trudeau's push to restrict travel.

This is dumb and should have been done last year at the start.

Cancel travel plans, Justin Trudeau urges Canadians


----------



## Blizzard (Jan 26, 2021)

Just like flipping a switch, we get dumber and dumber:
Dr. Fauci: Double masking against mutant coronavirus ‘just makes common sense’

Makes common sense? LOL. 

Do you know what's better than double masking? Triple masking!  But why stop there...how about 5 mask...maybe 10? 

Actually, anyone truly wanting to stop this needs to cut off all potential for oxygen intake, it just makes common sense.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 26, 2021)

Blizzard said:


> Just like flipping a switch, we get dumber and dumber:
> Dr. Fauci: Double masking against mutant coronavirus ‘just makes common sense’
> 
> Makes common sense? LOL.
> ...



Even doctors are idiots. He's clearly shown himself to be one.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 26, 2021)

At this point, when I see his name, all I see and hear is Baghdad Bob and nothing more....


----------



## Polar Bear (Jan 26, 2021)

Blizzard said:


> Just like flipping a switch, we get dumber and dumber:
> Dr. Fauci: Double masking against mutant coronavirus ‘just makes common sense’
> 
> Makes common sense? LOL.
> ...


Don’t forget one on the back of your head incase Covid try’s to sneak up on you from the rear


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 26, 2021)

Polar Bear said:


> Don’t forget one on the back of your head incase Covid try’s to sneak up on you from the rear



Triple masks, front and back.  Plus goggles and face shield, front and back.


----------



## AWP (Jan 26, 2021)

Double masks? HAHAHAHA, children.






100% tape here. You can't catch it if you can't breathe.

ETA: spelling and such.


----------



## Brill (Jan 27, 2021)

AWP said:


> Double masks? HAHAHAHA, children.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That clip starts out EXACTLY like every HR engagement I’ve had.


----------



## Brill (Jan 28, 2021)

What a shitty thing to do to people.

China Begins Using Anal Swabs To Test For COVID-19 In Beijing


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 28, 2021)

About fucking time.   Maybe if they actually reported all of this since the start.  Same as pushing for better masks or as Fauci recommends, double masks.  We're a year to late.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-covid-19-positive-after-vaccination-1.5884463


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 28, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> About fucking time.   Maybe if they actually reported all of this since the start.  Same as pushing for better masks or as Fauci recommends, double masks.  We're a year to late.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-covid-19-positive-after-vaccination-1.5884463



One of several reasons I have taken the vax.  I have heard--but can't confirm--we've had a couple employees test positive but asymptomatic after the vax.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2021)

So um...when is Cuomo going to be held accountable? 

New York underreported COVID-19 nursing home deaths by as much as 50%, AG report says


----------



## AWP (Jan 28, 2021)

There is talk the UAE will make the vaccine mandatory for all residents.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 28, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> One of several reasons I have taken the vax.  I have heard--but can't confirm--we've had a couple employees test positive but asymptomatic after the vax.



I'm good with it and will get it if/when we eventually get it.  That's looking later and later now.  Anything that helps.  But I wish those in power and the media would stop with the preaching that it's some sort of "cure".  Same as they did with cloth masks.  So many idiot's act like their mask makes them invincible and now talking about how the vaccines will bring life back to "normal".    Just tell us all the fucking truth and stop treating everyone with kid gloves.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 28, 2021)

Now Fauchi is talking about wearing 2 masks? Give me a fucking break. From now on, I'll wear my bird plague mask out. It's a mask, right?


----------



## Muppet (Jan 28, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> One of several reasons I have taken the vax.  I have heard--but can't confirm--we've had a couple employees test positive but asymptomatic after the vax.



Why were they tested if they were not symptomatic?


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 28, 2021)

Muppet said:


> Why were they tested if they were not symptomatic?



Sick contacts, I think....


----------



## Muppet (Jan 28, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> Sick contacts, I think....



Ah. I heard that this would happen.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 28, 2021)

Had my second vaccine yesterday afternoon, Moderna. I had no issues, felt puny for a bit, but that's it.  We had three others on the squad that were out for a day, everything between chills, fever, flu like symptoms, achy...but stopped after about 8 hours.


----------



## Brill (Jan 28, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> Had my second vaccine yesterday afternoon, Moderna. I had no issues, felt puny for a bit, but that's it.  We had three others on the squad that were out for a day, everything between chills, fever, flu like symptoms, achy...but stopped after about 8 hours.



If that had been an erection, you would need to call a doctor.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 29, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> Had my second vaccine yesterday afternoon, Moderna. I had no issues, felt puny for a bit, but that's it.  We had three others on the squad that were out for a day, everything between chills, fever, flu like symptoms, achy...but stopped after about 8 hours.



I had my second, Phizer, 2 weeks ago. I had body aches and headache for a day, Tylenol and motrin, I was better.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 29, 2021)

Face mask  triple layer  plague mask  bird mask  SMS | Etsy

Gonna probably buy this for work. 

Imagine a paramedic walking into your house, wearing this. Should be a hoot.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 29, 2021)

> Germany opens detention camps for people breaking quarantine rules
> Similar camps are currently being discussed in New York and Australia.



Germany opens detention camps for people breaking quarantine rules


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 29, 2021)

Yeah...that's not a good look Germany....


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 29, 2021)

Such progressive thinking. They're so brave.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 29, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Germany opens detention camps for people breaking quarantine rules



Coming soon to the US, no doubt.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 29, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> Germany opens detention camps for people breaking quarantine rules



Just for clarity....Snopes report: Is Germany Planning To Put Quarantine Violators in Detention Centers and Refugee Camps?

*What's True*
Germany's 16 federal states have the authority to detain repeated offenders of COVID-19 quarantine regulations. At the time of this reporting, four states have plans to use existing spaces as potential quarantine detention centers. In two cases that facility is on the grounds of a refugee center; in another, the facility is on the grounds of a juvenile detention center.

*What's False*
However, the use of these facilities, at the time of this reporting, is largely theoretical. In theory, they would be reserved only for extreme cases involving repeat offenses. A majority of German states have no plans for the creation of quarantine violation detention centers, according to recent reporting.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 29, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> Just for clarity....Snopes report: Is Germany Planning To Put Quarantine Violators in Detention Centers and Refugee Camps?
> 
> *What's True*
> Germany's 16 federal states have the authority to detain repeated offenders of COVID-19 quarantine regulations. At the time of this reporting, four states have plans to use existing spaces as potential quarantine detention centers. In two cases that facility is on the grounds of a refugee center; in another, the facility is on the grounds of a juvenile detention center.
> ...



It's one of those... Not really true.. but not really false headlines. Still more true than most that I've seen lately, but I'm preparing for my 3 masks to wear tomorrow, hopefully the authorities will accept my papers once I get my shots...


----------



## Brill (Jan 29, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> It's one of those... Not really true.. but not really false headlines. Still more true than most that I've seen lately, but I'm preparing for my 3 masks to wear tomorrow, hopefully the authorities will accept my papers once I get my shots...



Watch it. You’re close to publishing disinformation. I see a meme and I’m calling FBI.

I‘m seeing something so I have to say someth...I can’t. I tried but I need more reprogramming.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 29, 2021)

Slippery fucking slope.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355253499802636288


----------



## AWP (Jan 29, 2021)

Maybe the Germans will improve their "0 hots and a pallet" policy from days of yore.

"Impfungen macht frei"


----------



## Dame (Jan 30, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> Slippery fucking slope.


I'd say that's a full on downhill speed run. Pretty sure that wouldn't fly here (maybe in NY). Trespassing in order to "enforce" a government mandated quarantine? I hear shotguns being racked all over the country.


----------



## Brill (Jan 30, 2021)

Dame said:


> I'd say that's a full on downhill speed run. Pretty sure that wouldn't fly here (maybe in NY). Trespassing in order to "enforce" a government mandated quarantine? I hear shotguns being racked all over the country.



Dude makes meme & faces 10 years in Fed prison.

FBI guy lies to Fed judge, who, based on the lies, suspends 4th amendment privileges of an American for almost an entire year & gets probation.

White supremacists and domestic terrorists will be severely punished. Patriots will double or triple mask while insurrections and internal enemies will illegally manipulate stock holding to inflict grave damage upon our national economy. Men, via simple decree, can miraculously have children and preventing such violates their civil rights, a Federal crime.

Americans will shut up and do as they’re told.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 30, 2021)

Kraut783 said:


> However, the use of these facilities, at the time of this reporting, is largely theoretical.



Auschwitz, at one time, was largely theoretical.


----------



## Brill (Jan 30, 2021)

And just like that, the “big lie” is no longer needed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355319508949319681


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2021)

Brill said:


> And just like that, the “big lie” is no longer needed.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355319508949319681



If there was no government funding tied to positive tests, patients admitted, and patients admitted to the ICU, the numbers would look way different.  But we went to a test everyone policy...you know how hard it is for a doctor to test you for the flu?


----------



## Brill (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> If there was no government funding tied to positive tests, patients admitted, and patients admitted to the ICU, the numbers would look way different.



The correct wording is “taxpayer funded Government SPENDING”.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> If there was no government funding tied to positive tests, patients admitted, and patients admitted to the ICU, the numbers would look way different.  But we went to a test everyone policy...you know how hard it is for a doctor to test you for the flu?



How hard is it to test for influenza? Not at all hard is the answer to your question.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2021)

Dvr55119 said:


> How hard is it to test for influenza? Not at all hard is the answer to your question.


Correct, it's not hard.  But the vast majority of influenza cases are diagnosed and never tested for.  I couldn't tell you any time I was treated for influenza that I was tested, literally ever.  However, I'm guessing that has changed quite a bit since you don't want misdiagnose the flu for the corona.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Correct, it's not hard.  But the vast majority of influenza cases are diagnosed and never tested for.  I couldn't tell you any time I was treated for influenza that I was tested, literally ever.  However, I'm guessing that has changed quite a bit since you don't want misdiagnose the flu for the corona.



Any good physician would want to properly diagnose an illness. Influenza can be quickly diagnosed via multiple commercially available products. Now, often patients do not want to pay for a diagnostic test, particularly if they are symptomatic and had a known exposure.

The differential diagnosis for COVID should include an influenza test, and a Covid rule out for a suspected symptomatic influenza patient should include an covid test. There have been relatively few cases of influenza this season though, as many people are being much more careful. Masks, social distance, and hand washing are the preventive measures that also work for curbing the spread of most communicable diseases.

Most symptomatic patients receive a Covid test first, and if that is negative will receive a influenza test next. Many hospitals and associated urgent care centers will do both tests at the same time in order to streamline diagnosis.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2021)

Dvr55119 said:


> Any good physician would want to properly diagnose an illness. Influenza can be quickly diagnosed via multiple commercially available products. Now, often patients do not want to pay for a diagnostic test, particularly if they are symptomatic and had a known exposure.
> 
> The differential diagnosis for COVID should include an influenza test, and a Covid rule out for a suspected symptomatic influenza patient should include an covid test. There have been relatively few cases of influenza this season though, as many people are being much more careful. Masks, social distance, and hand washing are the preventive measures that also work for curbing the spread of most communicable diseases.
> 
> Most symptomatic patients receive a Covid test first, and if that is negative will receive a influenza test next. Many hospitals and associated urgent care centers will do both tests at the same time in order to streamline diagnosis.



To be honest I don't buy that influenza is down or that people are being more "careful" when you consider the total number of Coronavirus cases. And, disclaimer.  This is my opinion.  We're having a lot of "undiagnosed" cases of influenza and people who have symptoms that overlap are only getting COVID tests via drive thru facilities, not point of care.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> To be honest I don't buy that influenza is down or that people are being more "careful" when you consider the total number of Coronavirus cases. And, disclaimer.  This is my opinion.  We're having a lot of "undiagnosed" cases of influenza and people who have symptoms that overlap are only getting COVID tests via drive thru facilities, not point of care.


I appreciate you saying your opinion is anecdotal. In my anecdotal experiences in the hospital over the last year, I can confirm that influenza cases are down. I can also confirm anecdotally that when I was tested in a drive up site for COVID in Oct, I was also tested for influenza.

For some hard data, the CDC reports 524,037 influenza tests since September in the US. That is not a significant reduction in the amount of tests as compared to normal. For comparison in 2019 for the full season 1,145,555 tests were performed.

Positivity rates are also charted, in 2019 the positivity rate was around 15 percent. This year the positivity rate is hovering at 0.2 percent. This information would imply that influenza is almost certainly not as prevalent this year. The reasons for that could be attributed to many factors, but the most likely seems to be an increase in the things I mentioned earlier. The reason COvId is so prevalent despite those efforts seems to be that it is airborne, and influenza is not. Therefore our measures work well in reducing influenza spread, but not as well at COVID.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2021)

Dvr55119 said:


> I appreciate you saying your opinion is anecdotal. In my anecdotal experiences in the hospital over the last year, I can confirm that influenza cases are down. I can also confirm anecdotally that when I was tested in a drive up site for COVID in Oct, I was also tested for influenza.
> 
> For some hard data, the CDC reports 524,037 influenza tests since September in the US. That is not a significant reduction in the amount of tests as compared to normal. For comparison in 2019 for the full season 1,145,555 tests were performed.
> 
> Positivity rates are also charted, in 2019 the positivity rate was around 15 percent. This year the positivity rate is hovering at 0.2 percent. This information would imply that influenza is almost certainly not as prevalent this year. The reasons for that could be attributed to many factors, but the most likely seems to be an increase in the things I mentioned earlier. The reason COvId is so prevalent despite those efforts seems to be that it is airborne, and influenza is not. Therefore our measures work well in reducing influenza spread, but not as well at COVID.



Got a link for any of that? The CDC doesn't list the 19-20 season.**

The 18-19 season however the CDC does give data. Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC


> CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season1.



So generally, based on the fact that influenza is way more contagious.  I don't think we'll know at all since we've seen how people have been avoiding care.  We've also seen how deaths have been misdiagnosed (on purpose or not, but that grant money when you get a COVID death).

ETA: Err never mind. Found the 19-20 data. No idea why it wasn't in the same place. Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2019–2020 Influenza Season | CDC


> During the 2019-2020 influenza season, CDC estimates that influenza was associated with 38 million illnesses, 18 million medical visits, 405,000 hospitalizations, and 22,000 deaths. The influenza burden was higher in young children (0-4 years) and adults (18-49 years) compared with a recent season with the 2017-2018 season, a recent season with high severity, and provides evidence to support how severe seasonal influenza can be at any age.



Also, on under "Burden Estimate Limitations":


> For these estimates, we included additional information to better capture flu testing practices at sites in the hospital-based surveillance system, FluSurv-NET, that collects data on patients hospitalized with laboratory-confirmed flu. Flu testing is done at the request of individual clinicians, but not everyone is tested, and flu tests are not perfectly accurate. Thus, reports of laboratory-confirmed flu-related hospitalizations to FluSurv-NET are underestimates of the true number of hospitalizations. To adjust for this, CDC collects data annually from participating FluSurv-NET sites on the amount of flu testing and the type of tests used at the site. This information is used to correct for the underestimates of flu-related hospitalizations. These testing data are often not available for up to 2 years after the end of a flu season, and thus the burden estimates are revised when additional testing data become available.


----------



## Dvr55119 (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Got a link for any of that? The CDC doesn't list the 19-20 season.**
> 
> The 18-19 season however the CDC does give data. Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC
> 
> ...


Looks like you found some of it. Here is a summary as well:

Update: Influenza Activity in the United States During the 2018–19 Season and Composition of the 2019–20 Influenza Vaccine

Rates: Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report | CDC


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 30, 2021)

So, like the Flu.  You can still catch Coronavirus if you get the vaccine.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355676283062153216


----------



## Kaldak (Jan 30, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, like the Flu.  You can still catch Coronavirus if you get the vaccine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355676283062153216



We have established that fact already in this thread and others. Anything new I'm missing?


----------



## AWP (Jan 30, 2021)

90% efficacy means 10% are SOL.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 30, 2021)

Dvr55119 said:


> How hard is it to test for influenza? Not at all hard is the answer to your question.



Yeah, we test all the time this time of year.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 30, 2021)

Dame said:


> I'd say that's a full on downhill speed run. Pretty sure that wouldn't fly here (maybe in NY). Trespassing in order to "enforce" a government mandated quarantine? I hear shotguns being racked all over the country.



And the contractors would deserve it...

I said it.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 30, 2021)

Brill said:


> Dude makes meme & faces 10 years in Fed prison.
> 
> FBI guy lies to Fed judge, who, based on the lies, suspends 4th amendment privileges of an American for almost an entire year & gets probation.
> 
> ...



Yep.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 30, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Auschwitz, at one time, was largely theoretical.



Na, you have it all wrong. The SS, especially at KL Auschwitz and Berkinau were all following orders. Must follow orders.

But, if my great grandfather and other bloodline that were murdered there were alive, they'd disagree.

I have no doubt, Americans as a whole would gladly get on those boxcars to camps if they were told it was for their security. 

We all have learned alot during the pandemic, mostly that, Americans will rat fuck on their neighbors like they are SS collaborators, Americans will trust any government to do the right thing on their behalf and that, the media tells the truth.

It is these reasons why in general, I have utter disdain for the public, frankly, I despise these types, including the cunts that wear masks in cars, by themselves.


----------



## AWP (Jan 31, 2021)

Muppet said:


> I have no doubt, Americans as a whole would gladly get on those boxcars to camps if they were told it was for their security.



And other groups of Americans would gladly drive the trains, build the camps, and guard the priso...patients. That story is as old as time itself and all of the Declarations and Constitutions in the world won't change anything.


----------



## Muppet (Jan 31, 2021)

AWP said:


> And other groups of Americans would gladly drive the trains, build the camps, and guard the priso...patients. That story is as old as time itself and all of the Declarations and Constitutions in the world won't change anything.



Exactly, my brother, sad to say.


----------



## Brill (Jan 31, 2021)

AWP said:


> And other groups of Americans would gladly drive the trains, build the camps, and guard the priso...patients. That story is as old as time itself and all of the Declarations and Constitutions in the world won't change anything.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355664539568775170


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2021)

The herd is in us all. The hate is in us all.


----------



## Grunt (Jan 31, 2021)

We as a nation refuse to read and study our history. If we did so, we would see that history will -- and does -- always repeat itself as there is nothing new under the sun. 

Americans are willingly ignorant and have been taught to become reliant upon the government to meet their every need. Unless there is a mindset change in this nation, there will be no physical change.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 31, 2021)

Sohei said:


> We as a nation refuse to read and study our history. If we did so, we would see that history will -- and does -- always repeat itself as there is nothing new under the sun.
> 
> Americans are willingly ignorant and have been taught to become reliant upon the government to meet their every need. Unless there is a mindset change in this nation, there will be no physical change.



Blasphemy!!  but.....correct.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 31, 2021)

AWP said:


> And other groups of Americans would gladly drive the trains, build the camps, and guard the priso...patients. That story is as old as time itself and all of the Declarations and Constitutions in the world won't change anything.



This country interned thousands of its own citizens due to racism.  Those citizens were not compensated.  The Army heavily recruited these internment camps and young men wanted to show how loyal to America they were.

The 442nd RCT was one of the most decorated units of WWII.  

We never interned Muslims after 9-11.  But hey we will intern people for not wearing masks for a disease that has limited mortality. YOLO.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 31, 2021)

61 out of 98 countries, behind Belarus and Myanmar.  Something to he proud of I guess...  if the idiots in this country vote the fucking potato back in, we're doomed.

The numbers are in: Canada’s COVID-fighting efforts are among world’s worst - Macleans.ca


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 31, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> 61 out of 98 countries, behind Belarus and Myanmar.  Something to he proud of I guess...  if the idiots in this country vote the fucking potato back in, we're doomed.
> 
> The numbers are in: Canada’s COVID-fighting efforts are among world’s worst - Macleans.ca


I'm sure things will get better when Canada starts sending those private security "compliance" contractors out to peoples' homes.  /s


----------



## AWP (Jan 31, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm sure things will get better when Canada starts sending those private security "compliance" contractors out to peoples' homes.  /s



Impfugen macht frei.


----------



## Kraut783 (Jan 31, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm sure things will get better when Canada starts sending those private security "compliance" contractors out to peoples' homes.  /s



Found a picture of the Compliance contractor for Canadian enforcement.


----------



## Gunz (Jan 31, 2021)

That lil fat tactical dude sure gets mileage. I think he was in the Guard unit at the Capitol...


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 31, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm sure things will get better when Canada starts sending those private security "compliance" contractors out to peoples' homes.  /s



I know a guy, wintering in Cuba right now and he has more freedom.  He just got his Cuban gun license approval.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2021)

I'm getting the vaccine when it works its way through the system down to us, I just thought this meme was kind of amusing:


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 1, 2021)

So when we look at Demographics, one of the hardest hit demographics has been Black Americans.  Something smacked me in the head today about why closing rec facilities was awful.  I was watching this video from the Global Triathlon Network where the dietitian stated that people with Darker Skin require more Vitamin D.  So I decided to look it up.






And There's a lot of studies on Black Americans having a higher rate of Vitamin D Deficiency. I'm guessing that has only been jacked the heck up because of lockdowns.

Here's on study published in 2006 that talks about this.

Vitamin D and African Americans


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 1, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> So when we look at Demographics, one of the hardest hit demographics has been Black Americans.  Something smacked me in the head today about why closing rec facilities was awful.  I was watching this video from the Global Triathlon Network where the dietitian stated that people with Darker Skin require more Vitamin D.  So I decided to look it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dr. Rhonda Patrick had said this on a JRE quite a while ago on the importance of D and the tangential relationship to higher rates with some minorities.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 1, 2021)

Interesting article in the NYT going after Cuomo

9 Top N.Y. Health Officials Have Quit as Cuomo Scorns Expertise




> The deputy commissioner for public health at the New York State Health Department resigned in late summer. Soon after, the director of its bureau of communicable disease control also stepped down. So did the medical director for epidemiology. Last month, the state epidemiologist said she, too, would be leaving.
> 
> The drumbeat of high-level departures in the middle of the pandemic came as morale plunged in the Health Department and senior health officials expressed alarm to one another over being sidelined and treated disrespectfully, according to five people with direct experience inside the department.
> 
> ...


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 1, 2021)

This could be a game changer, depending on accuracy and price.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 3, 2021)

Coming to a country near you. 

WARMINGTON: Man in forced detention in a Canada COVID camp


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 3, 2021)

COVID-19 Lockdowns Caused Cleaner Air – And Warmed the Planet

Well fuck.. What are we supposed to do now since lockdowns cause actually global warming?



> The lockdowns and reduced societal activity related to the COVID-19 pandemic affected emissions of pollutants in ways that slightly warmed the planet for several months last year, according to a new study by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).
> 
> The counterintuitive finding highlights the influence of airborne particles, or aerosols, that block incoming sunlight. *When emissions of aerosols dropped last spring, more of the Sun’s warmth reached the planet*, especially in heavily industrialized nations, such as the United States and Russia, that normally pump high amounts of aerosols into the atmosphere.


----------



## Steve1839 (Feb 3, 2021)

Florida173 said:


> COVID-19 Lockdowns Caused Cleaner Air – And Warmed the Planet
> 
> Well fuck.. What are we supposed to do now since lockdowns cause actually global warming?


If anyone ever tells you the science is solved, they are grossly ignorant or politically indoctrinated...when I was an undergraduate environmental science student 45+ years ago, it was believed that atmospheric pollution would lead to an ice age...mebbe it wasn't all BS...National Geographic has an article on the earth's rotation and climate...applying the principle of Uniformitarianism, this could explain stuff...or not...

Earth's odd rotation may solve an ancient climate mystery (nationalgeographic.com)


Edited to rephrase.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 4, 2021)

Privatization of detention, this doesnt sound like anything can go wrong.

Private company to take over federal quarantine sites by the spring - iPolitics

No tobogganing. 

Ontario police shut down toboggan hill after 100 people showed up


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 4, 2021)

Holy fuck, we're a third world country now.

Covax: Canada defends taking vaccines from sharing scheme


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 4, 2021)

Oh and we're entertaining that the virus escaped the Wuhan lab again.

Why it's not impossible that COVID-19 escaped from a lab in Wuhan


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 5, 2021)

Hearing good things about the upcoming Johnson and Johnson vaccine.  

Only one shot. 

May require future booster shots. 

No known side affects from shot.

In 100%...yes, 100% of cases this version has prevented death and/or hospitalization.

Waiting on FDA approval


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 5, 2021)

If I had the chance to talk to Trudeau,  it would be hard not to throat punch him.  I hope he's haunted by all the lives lost for the rest of his privileged life.

When will life return to normal? In 7 years at today's vaccine rates

How the federal government utterly botched Canada's COVID vaccine acquisition


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 5, 2021)

love him or hate him.. he's got a point


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> If I had the chance to talk to Trudeau,  it would be hard not to throat punch him.  I hope he's haunted by all the lives lost for the rest of his privileged life.
> 
> When will life return to normal? In 7 years at today's vaccine rates
> 
> How the federal government utterly botched Canada's COVID vaccine acquisition


According to Psaki we don't get to do any normal anymore.  Nevermind that Wuhan and the Chinese are taunting the west with mass nut to butt gathereings.


----------



## GOTWA (Feb 5, 2021)

Remember that time China potentially released a virus on the world and nobody could prove it did, or did not, happen?


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 5, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> Remember that time China potentially released a virus on the world and nobody could prove it did, or did not, happen?


----------



## Muppet (Feb 5, 2021)

I'm seeing patients that suffer trauma or something not rona related, get tested, boom,  rona. It's everywhere.


----------



## GOTWA (Feb 5, 2021)

Florida173 said:


>


I still don't understand the, 'someone ate a bat' when it's a respiratory disease.


----------



## Gunz (Feb 5, 2021)

RackMaster said:


> If I had the chance to talk to Trudeau,  it would be hard not to throat punch him.  I hope he's haunted by all the lives lost for the rest of his privileged life.
> 
> When will life return to normal? In 7 years at today's vaccine rates
> 
> How the federal government utterly botched Canada's COVID vaccine acquisition



Where can Proud Boys get vaccinated in Canada? Asking for a friend.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 5, 2021)

Gunz said:


> Where can Proud Boys get vaccinated in Canada? Asking for a friend.



No where right now.   The few doses we have are still going to front-line workers and residents in LTC.  My wife work's front-line mental health, including homeless and she'll be lucky to getit before end of March.


----------



## AWP (Feb 5, 2021)

The UAE is inching towards a new lockdown as Dubai closes some types of businesses and Abu Dhabi is restricting malls and theaters down to 40% capacity. Meanwhile, 4 million doses have been administered in a country of less than 11 million. Even cutting that in half to account for two shots per person, almost 10% of the country has been vaccinated? 40.53 vaccinations per 100 people according to their numbers, so now we're back up to 40-ish percent?

I figure we have about 3-4 weeks before it becomes mandatory.


----------



## GOTWA (Feb 5, 2021)

AWP said:


> The UAE is inching towards a new lockdown as Dubai closes some types of businesses and Abu Dhabi is restricting malls and theaters down to 40% capacity. Meanwhile, 4 million doses have been administered in a country of less than 11 million. Even cutting that in half to account for two shots per person, almost 10% of the country has been vaccinated? 40.53 vaccinations per 100 people according to their numbers, so now we're back up to 40-ish percent?
> 
> I figure we have about 3-4 weeks before it becomes mandatory.


Which vaccines are they running over there? I got the Moderna a couple weeks ago and felt zero side effects. The arm pain didn't even feel as bad as some others made it out to be. Shot 2 is coming up, but I'm on the fence of whether or not I want to jump through hoops to get it.


----------



## AWP (Feb 5, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> Which vaccines are they running over there? I got the Moderna a couple weeks ago and felt zero side effects. The arm pain didn't even feel as bad as some others made it out to be. Shot 2 is coming up, but I'm on the fence of whether or not I want to jump through hoops to get it.



Small amounts of Pfizer's, but mostly Sinopharm's. The Sputnik is approved for emergency usage and no, we don't have a choice in which one we receive.


----------



## Kraut783 (Feb 5, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> Which vaccines are they running over there? I got the Moderna a couple weeks ago and felt zero side effects. The arm pain didn't even feel as bad as some others made it out to be. Shot 2 is coming up, but I'm on the fence of whether or not I want to jump through hoops to get it.


I had no issues with moderma #2, some had slight effects....but I think it’s worth finishing the vaccine.


----------



## Brill (Feb 6, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> ...I'm on the fence of whether or not I want to jump through hoops to get it.


Local command here offered vax to volunteers but so few signed up they opened it up to ALL personal regardless of affiliation. Apparently there were so few takers, vax availability was opened up to ANYONE on base.

I‘ve abstained so far because I think I’ve already had the Wuhu flu back in Mar when testing wasn’t widely available. I typically get sick at the drop of a hat and as much COVID that has been around the command (and in the local area), I’m sure I’ve been exposed.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 6, 2021)

GOTWA said:


> Which vaccines are they running over there? I got the Moderna a couple weeks ago and felt zero side effects. The arm pain didn't even feel as bad as some others made it out to be. Shot 2 is coming up, but I'm on the fence of whether or not I want to jump through hoops to get it.


Well, none of the virtue signallers have had an anthrax shot or a small pox shot...soooo this probably feels like the flu shot.


----------



## Devildoc (Feb 6, 2021)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, none of the virtue signallers have had an anthrax shot or a small pox shot...soooo this probably feels like the flu shot.



I got both of those, and although I did ok, I saw some of our previously healthy colleagues have a bad outcome.  I felt then like they rushed it out, just like I'm feeling now that it's getting rushed out.  That's why I'm waiting.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 6, 2021)

Devildoc said:


> I got both of those, and although I did ok, I saw some of our previously healthy colleagues have a bad outcome.  I felt then like they rushed it out, just like I'm feeling now that it's getting rushed out.  That's why I'm waiting.



There's plenty of opportunity to get this vaccine, unless you're in NY I guess.  However, I'm waiting too.  Will I get vaccinated?  Sure.  But I also have this sneaky suspicion that we're going to have to get this every year.  Which is fine I guess.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Feb 6, 2021)

I've been licking truck stop bathroom stalls up and down I-95 since last March.  No need for Vaccine.  I even made a new friend.

View attachment 38845


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 6, 2021)

They moved up the schedule and we are getting the first shot next week.


----------



## Florida173 (Feb 6, 2021)

Marauder06 said:


> They moved up the schedule and we are getting the first shot next week.



We've been binned in with 1A, 1B, and 1C; but the command doesn't have their own stock like what I'm seeing at the TSOCs. We have to go through Walter Reed with everyone else. Even now though they are only doing 75+ at Walter Reed for 1B and all others are a wait till the end for anything left


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 6, 2021)

An awful coincidence...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...ts-national-microbiology-laboratory-1.5904035


----------



## AWP (Feb 6, 2021)

The UAE gov't to its employees: get a PCR test every 7 days, that you pay for out of pocket, or the free vaccine.

I figure I have about 3 weeks before the same applies to us.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 6, 2021)

AWP said:


> The UAE gov't to its employees: get a PCR test every 7 days, that you pay for out of pocket, or the free vaccine.
> 
> I figure I have about 3 weeks before the same applies to us.



Yep, or/and...

In order to travel, in order to renew a driver's license, in order to attend venues, in order to....

I got my vaccine, I understand the science behind it, being in the profession I'm in but....

I certainly see the government using this for their gain, the sheep will get on board, just like masks so they can have "normal" back when in reality, the pandemic proved, we will sacrifice power for safety.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 25, 2022)

Well, covid did not age well, it all came true. I had OG version, got jabbed, wore masks, still got omicron. 

2 years into 2 weeks to slow the curve.


----------



## AWP (Feb 25, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Well, covid did not age well, it all came true. I had OG version, got jabbed, wore masks, still got omicron.
> 
> 2 years into 2 weeks to slow the curve.



Pfizer x 2, still had the necronomicon or whatever it is called. It was a cold for me, more like the flu for my wife. Our daughter had both the original in December 2019 and the latest, and both were pretty rough. No hospitalization for any of us.


----------



## Muppet (Feb 25, 2022)

AWP said:


> Pfizer x 2, still had the necronomicon or whatever it is called. It was a cold for me, more like the flu for my wife. Our daughter had both the original in December 2019 and the latest, and both were pretty rough. No hospitalization for any of us.



OG for me was the flu like, transformer version was a cold and horrible body aches. Tessalon pearls helped cough, hot showers and motrin helped.


----------



## AWP (Feb 25, 2022)

We slept for two days, had fatigue for a week, and rolled on. She had a cough, I did not. We bundled up and sweated it out.


----------



## racing_kitty (Feb 25, 2022)

Pfizer for me, since my bout with OG in 2020 nearly landed me in the hospital. May or may not have had omicron, as it burned through my kitchen and to-go staff like the second coming of Gen. Sherman while I had a 48hr sniffle and a 30min coughing fit. Never got tested, so I don’t know. 

My brother went full Moderna, and he just recovered from his third bout of the shit last month. Sister finally had her first go with it at the same time. Meanwhile, Mom has all the exposure (living with my brother, and 10 days in the hospital with covid patients next door), RA, AND cancer, and the virus is scared of her!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 25, 2022)

Been exposed a bunch of times for long periods to mild and symptomatic people. Somehow nothing. Got J&J in August thinking I'd had to be at an event for work because I was supposed to get a job offer. Event was cancelled, job offer came end of November. Got a second round of J&J a few weeks ago because our Medical Director is a psycho, only for a few hours later to get a call from the Deputy to hold my move in place.  Our policy now resembles the NFL...no testing for asymptomatic. If asymptomatic and positive?  3 day isolation and all clear. If mild symptoms?  5 day isolation. 

Must be something to running in the sun 4-5x a week and taking vitamins.


----------



## digrar (Feb 25, 2022)

I'd had 2x Pfizer, then picked up a dose of the bug in late January, suffered a bit of a tight sternum and it buggered my voice for a week, but that was about it. As far as I am aware, I didn't infect anyone else, which for mine, is the whole aim of the jabs in the first place.
After Drs advice, I got my 3rd Pfizer booster on day 11 (it was already booked in), no side effects other than the obligatory sore arm.


----------



## Ex3 (Feb 25, 2022)

Modera x3 for me. Caught the bug end of Dec. Body aches and a little headache for two days. I feel pretty bulletproof now!


----------



## Arf (Feb 26, 2022)

My woman was hospitalized without the vaccine but she came out the other end alive and well.


----------



## Archangel27 (Feb 26, 2022)

Moderna X3 for me.  Been safe so far but I think most of the precautions made sense until Omicron.  I must say that so much of my work has been taken up by COVID related things that it exhausted me and my family culminating in the disastrous 2021 HBL this past year in conjunction with an upcoming "rotation".

It's just been a nonstop assault of shit rolling downhill that I know we have to deal with but it doesn't make it any easier when everything we talk about at work is COVID.


----------



## Chopstick (Feb 26, 2022)

Due to my particular clotting issue my PCP and Hem/Onc advised not getting vaccinated.  I have worked through this entire pandemic (aside from the 8 weeks my center was closed for the 14 days to flatten the curve) without getting it.  I have been tested a bunch only due to being exposed to patients and coworkers who were positive.  I never even had a sniffle.  Thank God.  It has to be the shit ton of vitamins and large variety of essential oils I use.  Plant Therapy is a helluva drug.   Oh, and green tea.  Lots and lots of green tea.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 27, 2022)

So this is wild: 


> A team of international researchers, including from India, have found that the COVID-19 virus' contains a tiny chunk of DNA that matched the sequence patented by Moderna three years before the onset of the pandemic.





> The findings, published in _Frontiers in Virology_, has raised new suspicion that the COVID-19 virus may have been tinkered within a lab, Daily Mail reported.
> 
> The scientists' team, including Akhil Varshney from Dr Shroff Charity Eye Hospital in New Delhi, showed a tiny snippet of a genetic material owned by Moderna in the virus's spike protein.
> 
> But records show that Moderna had filed the patent in February 2016 as part of its cancer research division, the report said.



New Study Finds COVID-19 DNA Linked to Moderna Patent Filed in 2016, Sparks Discussion on Lab Leak Theory  | The Weather Channel - Articles from The Weather Channel | weather.com


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 1, 2022)

Because Science: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498360349975842821


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 1, 2022)

Still not vaxed.  Me and family had it twice, once a mild version last summer, than the hard one in December.  That one sucked.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 1, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Because Science:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498360349975842821


State of the Union is what... today?  Interesting timing on that change from the CDC.  I'm sure it was a coincidence.


----------



## LimaPanther (Mar 2, 2022)

I had both shots due to my wife having cancer (she passed away this passed Oct) then had the virus New Year's Eve. Only symptom was loss of smell.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 2, 2022)

Here's the Cumulative Adverse Event Report for the Pfizer vaccine- https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf


----------



## Locksteady (Mar 2, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> I had both shots due to my wife having cancer (she passed away this passed Oct) then had the virus New Year's Eve. Only symptom was loss of smell.


Glad to hear the symptoms were reduced over NYE, but also very sorry to hear about your wife.  Best wishes to you in working through such a loss.


----------



## LimaPanther (Mar 2, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> Glad to hear the symptoms were reduced over NYE, but also very sorry to hear about your wife.  Best wishes to you in working through such a loss.


Locksteady - She married me right after graduating high school while I was still in the Corps. I was not home when our 3 children were born. Got notified I wasn't supposed to make it when I was in Nam during one of my deployments.  She spit shined my boots when I went before the OCS Board. Never saw a barbershop when home. She held the family together. The last few years she made quilts to be auctioned off at the 2d Recon BN Association get togethers at Camp LeJeune to make sure the younger Marines would have money to go home on holidays. Put up with me for 57 years.


----------



## Arf (Mar 2, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> Locksteady - She married me right after graduating high school while I was still in the Corps. I was not home when our 3 children were born. Got notified I wasn't supposed to make it when I was in Nam during one of my deployments.  She spit shined my boots when I went before the OCS Board. Never saw a barbershop when home. She held the family together. The last few years she made quilts to be auctioned off at the 2d Recon BN Association get togethers at Camp LeJeune to make sure the younger Marines would have money to go home on holidays. Put up with me for 57 years.


Sounds like you got the best one. I’m sorry for your loss.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 2, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> Locksteady - She married me right after graduating high school while I was still in the Corps. I was not home when our 3 children were born. Got notified I wasn't supposed to make it when I was in Nam during one of my deployments.  She spit shined my boots when I went before the OCS Board. Never saw a barbershop when home. She held the family together. The last few years she made quilts to be auctioned off at the 2d Recon BN Association get togethers at Camp LeJeune to make sure the younger Marines would have money to go home on holidays. Put up with me for 57 years.


You were a blessed man among men, my Brother! She sounds like she was a true gift....


----------



## Chopstick (Mar 2, 2022)

@LimaPanther  My sincere condolences for your loss.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 2, 2022)

LimaPanther said:


> Locksteady - She married me right after graduating high school while I was still in the Corps. I was not home when our 3 children were born. Got notified I wasn't supposed to make it when I was in Nam during one of my deployments.  She spit shined my boots when I went before the OCS Board. Never saw a barbershop when home. She held the family together. The last few years she made quilts to be auctioned off at the 2d Recon BN Association get togethers at Camp LeJeune to make sure the younger Marines would have money to go home on holidays. Put up with me for 57 years.



I'm so very sorry for your loss brother. It's a lifetime.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 2, 2022)

@LimaPanther sorry for loss.    Fuck Cancer with a giant cancerous dick!


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

West Point lifted their indoor mask mandate today.  Score.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 3, 2022)

UGLY BITCHES! LOL.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

If someone wants to wear a mask for their own protection, I'm totally fine with it.  Like so many other things, I just don't want someone else's beliefs or preferences foisted on me.


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> If someone wants to wear a mask for their own protection, I'm totally fine with it.  Like so many other things, I just don't want someone else's beliefs or preferences foisted on me.



Amen.


----------



## Board and Seize (Mar 3, 2022)

Muppet said:


> UGLY BITCHES! LOL.


Saw this on twitter, and laughed my ass off.

I want to believe it's staged/false-flag/whatever, but then there are those 'abortion every day' activists so...

Popcorn for anyone else while we watch the bonfire burning the remains of western civ? (if I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying...)


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 3, 2022)

I have a good friend from my college days who is a highly skilled bio-mechanical engineer (and, I suspect, a legit genius).  He worked for a well-known tech company, who (like most organizations) sent their people home during COVID.  It had been a while since I spoke with him, so when we talked a couple of days ago it shocked me to learn that he got fired from his job over refusing to get the COVID jab.

Here's the kicker:  his work was 100% remote.  He did all of his work from home.  All of his client interactions were via VTC.  He told his company that he didn't have a problem with people getting the vaccine, he had a problem with people telling him he had to get it, especially since his work was remote and he already contracted COVID.  Twice.  They suspended him with pay for two weeks and then fired him.  Now, of course, they want him back but because of the reasons I mentioned in my first sentence, he has already moved on.


We did a lot of stupid shit, and a lot of stupid shit to people, during COVID.  The above is just one example.  Firing a high performing, work-from-home employee over a shot he didn't need, and that turned out to not work like they said it would anyway?  Pure dumbassery.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I have a good friend from my college days who is a highly skilled bio-mechanical engineer (and, I suspect, a legit genius).  He worked for a well-known tech company, who (like most organizations) sent their people home during COVID.  It had been a while since I spoke with him, so when we talked a couple of days ago it shocked me to learn that he got fired from his job over refusing to get the COVID jab.
> 
> Here's the kicker:  his work was 100% remote.  He did all of his work from home.  All of his client interactions were via VTC.  He told his company that he didn't have a problem with people getting the vaccine, he had a problem with people telling him he had to get it, especially since his work was remote and he already contracted COVID.  Twice.  They suspended him with pay for two weeks and then fired him.  Now, of course, they want him back but because of the reasons I mentioned in my first sentence, he has already moved on.
> 
> ...



The government's mandate to force companies with over 100 personnel to get vaccinated led to people acting insane. Many of them are liberal, why incredibly smart people also can't use deductive reasoning, I don't  know. But massively large companies that went 100% remote did that, and on top of that they forced vaccinated remote workers to get COVID tests and submit them...while working remote. So yeah, no wonder that case rate kept climbing. 🙄


----------



## Grunt (Mar 4, 2022)

To say that COVID made me embarrassed of what my country became and allowed would be the understatement of the year for me.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 4, 2022)

The policies have been very non-sensical.  Example: on Sunday at my daughter's piano recital we all have to wear masks.  Same venue Monday, no masks because at midnight Sunday they drop the mask mandate.  Six-foot social distancing.  Endless boosters based on narrow-range retrospective data.  It's all been motivated by things other than science.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I have a good friend from my college days who is a highly skilled bio-mechanical engineer (and, I suspect, a legit genius).  He worked for a well-known tech company, who (like most organizations) sent their people home during COVID.  It had been a while since I spoke with him, so when we talked a couple of days ago it shocked me to learn that he got fired from his job over refusing to get the COVID jab.
> 
> Here's the kicker:  his work was 100% remote.  He did all of his work from home.  All of his client interactions were via VTC.  He told his company that he didn't have a problem with people getting the vaccine, he had a problem with people telling him he had to get it, especially since his work was remote and he already contracted COVID.  Twice.  They suspended him with pay for two weeks and then fired him.  Now, of course, they want him back but because of the reasons I mentioned in my first sentence, he has already moved on.
> 
> ...



My brother-in-law in an electrical engineer for a well-known power company on the east coast.  He works from home a couple days a week, works in the office a coupe days a week.  In the office he shares a large space separated into cubicles.  When he has a team meeting in the office, they have to use Zoom, even though everyone in their cubicle can hear each other, and if they stand up, can see each other.  They won't let them use the conference room, in which the actual spacing is exactly the same, just not separated by cubicle walls.


----------



## Steve1839 (Mar 4, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> The policies have been very non-sensical.


As a federal employee, the policies have been insane...I travel a lot...from April through October, sometimes into November a typical month involves being on the road 12-19 days at a whack, living in motels or bunkhouses at refuges...in 2020, I got a request from a refuge to do an "emergency" survey (the manager flies off the handle anytime there's activity near her boundary)...I requested travel, had to write a risk assessment, determine funding sources, etc...the funding came back approved but the grown ups were worried about my lodging...they denied my request to stay in a motel due to CoVid...the bunkhouse was occupied, so they recommended I stay in a bed and breakfast...I asked how sharing accomodations with others in a B&B was any different than a motel and was told to shut up and see what I could find...when I made arrangements at a B&B, the accountants denied the funding because federal employees can stay at such accomodations only if the duration of the stay is greater than 30 days...then, it was decided that I should look into staying at a campground...when I asked how staying at a campground and sharing sanitary facilities was any less risky than a motel, I was told to look into remote campgrounds...when I asked where I would charge the batteries necessary to do my job, they relented and authorized my travel and permitted me to stay in a motel...

Then there's the whole return to office scenario...it looks like my coworkers will not be back at their desks until early May...two weeks to flatten the curve has turned into two+ years...I will not be joining them, as I am retiring from the Fish and Wildlife Service later this month and beginning a new job with a private concern in Nevada...my bride seems to be happy with this turn of events...LOL


----------



## Muppet (Mar 4, 2022)

So many of us called this retarded shit in the beginning. Nothing but panicked partisan bullshit based on no science.

Funny how, my body, my choice only matters for women and abortions but not the jab.

The cunt liberals say, "trust the science" but when you say, there's only 2 genders, they up and dump the science.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 4, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So many of us called this retarded shit in the beginning. Nothing but panicked partisan bullshit based on no science.
> 
> Funny how, my body, my choice only matters for women and abortions but not the jab.
> 
> The cunt liberals say, "trust the science" but when you say, there's only 2 genders, they up and dump the science.



I was in on a lot of the response and planning meetings 2 years ago, and basically disinvited when I started calling for the science behind some of the mandates, particularly the social distancing.  I asked, "can I really get covid if I am 5 ft from you and I cannot get it if I am 7 ft?" I was a thorn in the side, and people did not like it.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 4, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I was in on a lot of the response and planning meetings 2 years ago, and basically disinvited when I started calling for the science behind some of the mandates, particularly the social distancing.  I asked, "can I really get covid if I am 5 ft from you and I cannot get it if I am 7 ft?" I was a thorn in the side, and people did not like it.


Imagine for a moment where we would be today if there wasn’t those like you that did that. We may never know the impact that those of you that “questioned” the system made - though it may seem small - every little bit helped.


----------



## Devildoc (Mar 4, 2022)

Grunt said:


> Imagine for a moment where we would be today if there wasn’t those like you that did that. We may never know the impact that those of you that “questioned” the system made - though it may seem small - every little bit helped.



I have an enormously low tolerance of bullshit; I was the hyper-classic "why?" child.  I don't like arbitrary 'because I said so' rules.  This has gotten me trouble as a kid, in the military, and in almost every job I've ever had.  It's either a good character trait or character flaw, and one that gets addressed almost every year in my eval.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 4, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I have an enormously low tolerance of bullshit; I was the hyper-classic "why?" child.  I don't like arbitrary 'because I said so' rules.  This has gotten me trouble as a kid, in the military, and in almost every job I've ever had.  It's either a good character trait or character flaw, and one that gets addressed almost every year in my eval.



Same here brother.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 4, 2022)

My other covid pet peeve. Walking with mask, covid is non existent when sitting down.


----------



## Gunz (Mar 4, 2022)

Muppet said:


> UGLY BITCHES! LOL.



They don't need masks. They need gags.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 4, 2022)

Look on the bright side. Putting made covid disappear.


----------



## digrar (Mar 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> They suspended him with pay for two weeks and then fired him.  Now, of course, they want him back but because of the reasons I mentioned in my first sentence, he has already moved on.


HR - Oh yeah, we also sacked one of the drones in sector 7G.
CEO - Dave, you sacked Dave? This company is fucked without Dave!
HR - Oh, but...
CEO - Unfuck your fuckup ASAP!


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 6, 2022)

> New York City Mayor Eric Adams announced Friday that masking will continue in "all settings with children under 5 years of age," including in classrooms.
> 
> Adams previously announced that masking would no longer be required for children in schools K-12 starting March 7.


Critics slam Eric Adams' for saying masking still required for 'all settings' with children under 5: 'Insane'

I don't understand this.  Aren't littles one of the lowest-risk groups out there?  Why keep them masked up?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 6, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Critics slam Eric Adams' for saying masking still required for 'all settings' with children under 5: 'Insane'
> 
> I don't understand this.  Aren't littles one of the lowest-risk groups out there?  Why keep them masked up?



Dude's a tyrant.  Two years in and we know masks had limited efficacy, and in some cases with young children had negative effects both physically and psychologically.  But NY, you get what you vote for.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 6, 2022)

Control. Plain and simple. The fucking "science" never mattered. In my Alex Jones tin foil thoughts, it's control to see how far tyrants can go.


----------



## Chopstick (Mar 6, 2022)

Several weeks ago my employer "mandated" that everyone working in and/or entering any one of our facilities had to wear KN95/N95 masks.  No procedure masks, no cloth masks.  Only KN95/N95.  If anyone entered without the mandated type mask they would be given one and told put it on.  Needless to say this created problems because visitors were refusing to do so as they were already wearing their own masks and the state mandates had expired. Staff refused to be the mask police (I was in that category).  Fast forward to last Tuesday.  The day of the SOTU.  It was a miracle!  That morning it was announced that due to the low census of COVID patients both in the facility and in the county masking rules were being relaxed!  Visitors were permitted to enter if wearing procedure type masks however NO CLOTH MASKS WILL BE PERMITTED.  What amazing timing!
 SMH .  Just as @Muppet  stated it's about control.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 6, 2022)

What these fucking idiots don't realize is that N95 masks need to be fit tested. I guarantee, Noone is fit tested.

I had OG virus, wore N95, N100s, cloth masks, surgical masks, vaccine x 2, I then got the transformer virus, can't get booster for 90 days, I'll refuse it. With all that, I still got sick, twice. No where does "science", the government or lord Fauci talk about natural immunity. Why is that? Hmmm.

A year ago, all medical professionals were "heros on the front line", now, if you refuse vaccine or don't buy the science, you're a bastard.

I don't wear masks anymore. I refuse to. Never wore them off duty, stopped wearing em after omicron illness.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 6, 2022)

Oh, fuck the virtue signaling mask cunts on social media. It's why I left Facebook a year ago. The amount of loyal Tories, sucking the cock of local, state and federal governments were astounding. 

These folks are akin to Germans that bought Hitlers nonsense and swore there were no camps, despite ashes falling from the sky and odors of cooked chicken in the air.


----------



## Chopstick (Mar 6, 2022)

@Muppet I'm so sick of that "heros" bs.  I'm not a hero, I'm just a trained professional showing up every day doing my job.  I knew it...I called it.  We were going to be heros until a time came for us to be zeros.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 6, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> @Muppet I'm so sick of that "heros" bs.  I'm not a hero, I'm just a trained professional showing up every day doing my job.  I knew it...I called it.  We were going to be heros until a time came for us to be zeros.


That goes for all of us that have been in "public service" one way or the other.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 6, 2022)

Agreed. I called it, we all did


----------



## Muppet (Mar 7, 2022)

Trust the science. This is a month old.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 8, 2022)

Fucking covid hypocritical nonsense. From Florida to NY.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 8, 2022)

Pure gold


----------



## Muppet (Mar 8, 2022)

Sent this to my in laws, now, we wait.


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## Muppet (Mar 10, 2022)

Anybody else seeing governors and mayors of liberal enclaves speak on the removal of tyrannical mask mandates?
The toads are saying, masks are now optional, please be respectful of those folks that choose to keep masks. No shaming or discrimination of those folks.

FUCK YOU! For 2 years of the 2 week slow the curve, those of us that did not wear masks were shamed, especially by those in government, by the ilk that bought into lord Fauci, prevented from entering buildings and so on.

Hypocritical bastards


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 10, 2022)

How many times do I have to say...this shot was not an immunization.  There's no such thing as a "breakthrough infection" no matter how much governmental crap they said during the trials to push you to get vaccinated...it ended up stopping absolutely 0 transmission.  Even when they were touting Crazy high figures in early studies - stops 92% transmission blah blah blah. 

Why Some People Still Haven't Gotten COVID


----------



## Kaldak (Mar 15, 2022)

Army approves first religious exemption for COVID vaccine

Can no longer claim the military has a blanket denial policy of religious exemptions.


----------



## Grunt (Mar 15, 2022)

Well...that was surely a quick decision....


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 15, 2022)

Man there is a lot to unpack in this 203 page thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 16, 2022)

So this is the stupidity of COVID-19 Mask policies. 

Yesterday I spoke at ASU, their mask requirement is no longer up for walking in the hallway or being seated in a lecture hall.  There is also no social distancing requirement. But if a student came up to the professor to speak with them, but not the guest speaker, they needed to wear a mask.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 18, 2022)

I was not around for a lot of this discussion. There is a lot to unpack, but I want to throw in some of my thoughts:

I am all for people wearing masks if they want. I do not know who is immunosuppressed/compromised. I personally will probably wear a mask on airplanes forever, and in massively crowded public spaces as well. I haven't had a cold/flu in over 2 years, and dodged COVID, despite intubating COVID positive patients, and being in non-tested peoples airways for the last year and a half. Fit tested N95's work great.

I do find it hilarious that many people (not anyone on here, these are generalizations) who have the comorbidities which are most likely to cause serious sequelae, are the most resistant to both vaccination, and masking. Seeing an obese patient, with vascular disease, who smokes, running his mouth at the grocery store about wearing a mask is ironic. In my own life, seeing those who are high risk being the most vocal, then getting severely ill has been shocking(not really).  One of the things that surprised me the most about this pandemic was the profound lack of understanding in our population about risk. Risk being both absolute and relative. People do not understand the difference, and I don't think it was ever more apparent than during this pandemic. People see "only 2% or less die", but they do not take into account their relative risk. Yeah it is unlikely, but it can be significantly more likely if you do not wear mask, have comorbidities, and are unvaccinated. Increase that risk more if you routinely are in the presence of those that are/could be sick (refusing to social distance).

In my opinion, we are lucky that COVID broke the way it did. Luckily it broke to become more infective, while less severe, rather than more severe.

My last thought: ++++++++THIS IS NOT WHAT I THINK HAPPENED!!!!+++++
Imagine this was planned. A small not very deadly disease is released on purpose. IO techniques are utilized to erode public trust in public health professionals. Vaccine science is called into question, and the methods of protection are politicized to the utmost. This bad actor has purposively and effectively set the stage for a much more effective bioweapon attack in the future. In this scenario, the stage is set perfectly. Lack of trust in science, an effective politicization of the protective measures, a tired population refusing to do as they are asked. Scary.


----------



## Archangel27 (Mar 19, 2022)

Welp, I got it myself and am sitting in one of the ISOFACs here.  Getting to make a whole lot of new friends in the communal bay.  I should have realized something was up when I couldn't make it 2 miles this morning at a 10 minute pace without having to rest.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 19, 2022)

I guess the vax in the service was actually not compulsory even though we were kicking people out?  Poster for the 1AD ball says Proof of Vaccination required at the door.  Which shows how stupid we are as a service.


----------



## Totentanz (Mar 19, 2022)

Archangel27 said:


> Welp, I got it myself and am sitting in one of the ISOFACs here.  Getting to make a whole lot of new friends in the communal bay.  I should have realized something was up when I couldn't make it 2 miles this morning at a 10 minute pace without having to rest.



All the best with your recovery!


----------



## BloodStripe (Mar 19, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I guess the vax in the service was actually not compulsory even though we were kicking people out?  Poster for the 1AD ball says Proof of Vaccination required at the door.  Which shows how stupid we are as a service.



Civilians can attend balls too. And while past policy said civilians are mandated to get the vaccine there is now a current stay on that order.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I guess the vax in the service was actually not compulsory even though we were kicking people out?  Poster for the 1AD ball says Proof of Vaccination required at the door.  Which shows how stupid we are as a service.


I imagine that's being driven more by the venue than by the chain of command, but still, I thought we were past all of that.  I very much want to go back to the "my medical information is none of your fucking business" days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I imagine that's being driven more by the venue than by the chain of command, but still, I thought we were past all of that.  I very much want to go back to the "my medical information is none of your fucking business" days.


Venue is the Centennial on Ft Bliss. Probably should have added that.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Venue is the Centennial on Ft Bliss. Probably should have added that.


Roger.  I think even the big centers on post are privately owned so this may be a (stupid) corporate decision and not a .mil one.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 24, 2022)

I'm at the airport, which means I'm back in a stupid fucking mask...


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 24, 2022)

Yesterday, I went shopping without a mask for the first time without a mask.  Felt amazing!  And all the people still wearing masks, look so sick; they should have stayed in their bubbles.  Or they look so crazy, they could be real pod people. 

They just lifted the mandate on Monday.  Also the vaccine passport but businesses can choose to still use it.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 24, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Yesterday, I went shopping without a mask for the first time without a mask.  Felt amazing!  And all the people still wearing masks, look so sick; they should have stayed in their bubbles.  Or they look so crazy, they could be real pod people.
> 
> They just lifted the mandate on Monday.  Also the vaccine passport but businesses can choose to still use it.


I don't have a problem with private citizens choosing to continue to wear a mask.  Do what you do to protect yourself or make yourself feel better or whatever.   I don't have a problem with businesses requiring masks.  Generally speaking, I think you should be able to do whatever you want with your business, including serving or not serving anyone for any reason.

I do, however, have a big problem with the "show me your papers" methodology employed by private businesses.  Again, that's none of your fucking business.  Especially because it doesn't even work like we were told it would.

The masking is on a whole different level.  Why am I more at-risk in the boarding lounge than I am at a concert, or a restaurant, or a crowded bar, or for that matter with the little germ factories that I teach every day?


----------



## Muppet (Mar 30, 2022)

Oh, lord Fauci you cock sucker.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 30, 2022)




----------



## Bypass (Mar 31, 2022)

Muppet said:


>


OMG I needed that. Too funny!!


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 1, 2022)

How about those vaccines?  

WHO: Pfizer vaccine potentially linked to hearing loss


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 1, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> How about those vaccines?
> 
> WHO: Pfizer vaccine potentially linked to hearing loss



How about the chances? 

364/11,000,000,000.

You legit have a better chance of winning the lottery a few times.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Apr 1, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> How about the chances?
> 
> 364/11,000,000,000.
> 
> You legit have a better chance of winning the lottery a few times.


First 3M with their earplugs, now Pfizer with the shot.. What does the NWO not want us to hear? Is it the high frequency sonic waves coming from the 5G towers? 🧐


----------



## Muppet (Apr 1, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> How about those vaccines?
> 
> WHO: Pfizer vaccine potentially linked to hearing loss



Huh!?


----------



## compforce (Apr 1, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> First 3M with their earplugs, now Pfizer with the shot.. What does the NWO not want us to hear? Is it the high frequency sonic waves coming from the 5G towers? 🧐



I've been hearing those waves since my first hitch in the military...


----------



## racing_kitty (Apr 1, 2022)

Huh? Did somebody just say something?


----------



## Totentanz (Apr 1, 2022)

compforce said:


> I've been hearing those waves since my first hitch in the military...



Well obviously you’re not hearing the security wave if you’re talking about them.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 1, 2022)

Is it bad that I don't think anything of it anymore?  I followed the science from 2020 and I masked up and stayed away from crowds, but now the guidance is I can take my mask off, so quite naturally I follow that too.  There is still a good number of people afraid and I kind of roll my eyes when I hear this sort of fragility.  Two years ago, when we had no frame of reference, I understood the fear.  Nowadays, I'm getting barked at by a fat lady in an electric wheelchair to not endanger her health while she's getting a bag of pizza rolls and soda.  

I can't retort to anyone that's still afraid, because their rhetoric is "I'm still afraid of covid, I'm high risk" and I can't argue with that, logically.


----------



## compforce (Apr 1, 2022)

Totentanz said:


> Well obviously you’re not hearing the security wave if you’re talking about them.


Did you just acknowledge the existence of the security wave?  *looks around nervously for the black helicopters he'll never hear coming for him*


----------



## Grunt (Apr 1, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Is it bad that I don't think anything of it anymore?  I followed the science from 2020 and I masked up and stayed away from crowds, but now the guidance is I can take my mask off, so quite naturally I follow that too.  There is still a good number of people afraid and I kind of roll my eyes when I hear this sort of fragility.  Two years ago, when we had no frame of reference, I understood the fear.  Nowadays, I'm getting barked at by a fat lady in an electric wheelchair to not endanger her health while she's getting a bag of pizza rolls and soda.
> 
> I can't retort to anyone that's still afraid, because their rhetoric is "I'm still afraid of covid, I'm high risk" and I can't argue with that, logically.


I quit caring a long time ago, if I ever truly did to begin with. I was never impressed with the science in support of the WuHan flu and still aren't - much less the "masking" of America and the suspension of our rights.


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 1, 2022)

Grunt said:


> I quit caring a long time ago, if I ever truly did to begin with. I was never impressed with the science in support of the WuHan flu and still aren't - much less the "masking" of America and the suspension of our rights.



I got deployed right when there was that second wave of Covid.  While Europe was opening up and became business as usual, my home state was trying to major in the minors with things like enforcing putting on masks between bites at restaurants.  That funny moment when my deployment was more like a vacation compared to the buffoonery going on back at home.


----------



## Muppet (Apr 1, 2022)

Dimethylamine said:


> Is it bad that I don't think anything of it anymore?  I followed the science from 2020 and I masked up and stayed away from crowds, but now the guidance is I can take my mask off, so quite naturally I follow that too.  There is still a good number of people afraid and I kind of roll my eyes when I hear this sort of fragility.  Two years ago, when we had no frame of reference, I understood the fear.  Nowadays, I'm getting barked at by a fat lady in an electric wheelchair to not endanger her health while she's getting a bag of pizza rolls and soda.
> 
> I can't retort to anyone that's still afraid, because their rhetoric is "I'm still afraid of covid, I'm high risk" and I can't argue with that, logically.



To be honest, the tards that are still afraid are the same tards that have always suckled the teet of any government that rules them.

They are the same ilk that rat fucked their neighbors for having a party. The same cunts that yelled about masks. The same idiots that said, "follow the science" by our lord n savior Fauci but in the same breath, up and dumped the science when they are there are only 2 genders.

They are the same fucks that wear 2 masks, wear a sticker saying, I'm vaccinated, allowed loved ones to due alone in the ICU, kept quiet during unconstitutional and illegitimate mandates that they were sure was law.

They are the same sheep that drive in cars with masks on, look terrified at those that are not scared and believe every variant is the deadly one.

I'm over it.

I'm a paramedic. Been working this shit since the beginning. Watch the immuno-compromised elderly that were forced into nursing homes under the guise of optics because, all of the surge facilities ran by DMATS and the guard had Army cots, optics dictate that covid granny in cots look bad. They all died in nursing homes. I can't count how many codes I worked and pronounced dead in the nursing homes because, transporting them to an ER overwhelmed with other covid is bad.

I got the OG variant, was fucking ill but got better. Wore masks, PAPRS, all kinds of masks, still got sick. Got vaccine, this past Jan, got omicron, masks don't work. They said vaccines prevent rona, walked that back.

I'm sure the government did not cause the pandemic but the federal and state governments certainly took the ball and ran with it, testing control theories based on public safety.

If, I was distrustful of government prior, guess where I'm at now.

My opinion...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 3, 2022)

Crazy shit right here from a year ago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510684506763706373


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 15, 2022)

Apparently Philadelphia is run by idiots. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...s-wrong-mask-mandate-covid-ba2-omicron-spike/


----------



## 757 (Apr 15, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently Philadelphia is run by idiots.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...s-wrong-mask-mandate-covid-ba2-omicron-spike/


Water is also wet (most of my family is from the Philly area so I’m definitely not unbiased 😅)

That said…agreed 🙃


----------



## Grunt (Apr 15, 2022)

That woman should be a confirmed "idiot" and shamed for simply being a mouthpiece for the shot-callers. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of her mouth about anything.


----------



## Muppet (Apr 16, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Apparently Philadelphia is run by idiots.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...s-wrong-mask-mandate-covid-ba2-omicron-spike/



It's fucking Philly bro. I'm ashamed to say I'm born and raised there. I exfil'd years ago and try not to go back.


----------



## Muppet (Apr 16, 2022)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2022)

Federal mask mandate has been officially struck down. https://pacer-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/40/391798/047124235804.pdf


----------



## Grunt (Apr 18, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Federal mask mandate has been officially struck down. https://pacer-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/40/391798/047124235804.pdf


It's sad that this nation has stooped to this level - amongst other things....


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2022)

So apparently after it was struck down the administration shrugged its shoulders and said: "ok".

Masks now optional for employees, customers following White House announcement


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 18, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So apparently after it was struck down the administration shrugged its shoulders and said: "ok".
> 
> Masks now optional for employees, customers following White House announcement



It doesn't say anything about the administration shrugging it off. That is also a Delta Airlines specific site/announcement.


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 18, 2022)

From the article:



> Wearing a well-fitting mask protects the wearer, even if others around them are not wearing masks.




Wait, I thought my mask was for other peoples' protection?


----------



## Kaldak (Apr 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> From the article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is for others protection. The media tells me such! Fake news!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> From the article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jen Psaki, that you?


----------



## Marauder06 (Apr 19, 2022)

Airline mask mandate is over.  Finally.


----------



## amlove21 (Apr 20, 2022)

... or is it? 


DOJ to appeal mask ruling after CDC request


----------



## RackMaster (Apr 20, 2022)

Unless you're fitted for and given an n95 as part of the boarding process, also kill all food and drink.  It's pointless.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 20, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> ... or is it?
> 
> 
> DOJ to appeal mask ruling after CDC request


They can get bent.


----------



## Gunz (Apr 20, 2022)

Fuck them mask mandate assholes. Amber Heard needs to shit on their beds.


----------



## Muppet (Apr 20, 2022)

BUT, BUT, BUT... MASK SAVES LIVES! OUR LORD IN SAVIOR FAUCI SAID SO!


----------



## Muppet (Apr 20, 2022)

Progressive Christians Waiting Until Marriage To Remove Each Other's Masks

So refreshing....


----------



## Intel Nerd (Apr 21, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Progressive Christians Waiting Until Marriage To Remove Each Other's Masks
> 
> So refreshing....



BabylonBee always keeps it refreshing


----------



## Dimethylamine (Apr 21, 2022)

I got carded every time I wanted to buy a can of Zyn when I wore a mask.  I'm 32.  I guess masks make people look younger?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Apr 21, 2022)

HOLEEE MO FUGGIN SHYYEEET...does this fool not understand how our entire government works?  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517248989535649794


----------



## Muppet (Apr 21, 2022)

Lord Fauci can fuck off, BTW.


----------



## Muppet (Apr 22, 2022)

My cesspool, I mean, home town of Philly had called for mask mandates but took a week to put in effect. If it were needed, they'd do it then, not a week.

Week later, mandate lifted. Fucking gay. On and off. Glad I exfil'd that fucking place. You know how to stop this? STOP FOLLOWING TYRANNY!


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 4, 2022)

The fact that the prosecutors didn't drop this shows how bad the Army is as a workplace.  That it ever got to this is pretty bad...also weird that Vindman's twin is cheering this on.

Army officer convicted in first known COVID court-martial


----------



## Muppet (May 19, 2022)

Well, fuck me sideways, we all speak Aboriginal!


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 19, 2022)

Anyone watch the Joe Rogan and Dr. Patrick Malone interview? It's the one that made the CDC and White House upset.






Description:
Dr. Robert Malone is the inventor of the nine original mRNA vaccine patents, which were originally filed in 1989 (including both the idea of mRNA vaccines and the original proof of principle experiments) and RNA transfection. Dr. Malone, has close to 100 peer-reviewed publications which have been cited over 12,000 times. Since January 2020, Dr. Malone has been leading a large team focused on clinical research design, drug development, computer modeling and mechanisms of action of repurposed drugs for the treatment of COVID-19. Dr. Malone is the Medical Director of The Unity Project, a group of 300 organizations across the US standing against mandated COVID vaccines for children. He is also the President of the Global Covid Summit, an organization of over 16,000 doctors and scientists committed to speaking truth to power about COVID pandemic research and treatment.


----------



## “The Old Man” (May 19, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Anyone watch the Joe Rogan and Dr. Patrick Malone interview?


Yes, I watched it when it came out. I probably need to watch it again though. The details have escaped me and, the salient points are sliding as well. 
What’s up?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (May 19, 2022)

Tinman6 said:


> Yes, I watched it when it came out. I probably need to watch it again though. The details have escaped me and, the salient points are sliding as well.
> What’s up?


Figured I should share it, as it sheds alotta light on some of the things earlier in this thread. Could possibly tie into the monkey pox and immune system disorders/vaccine damaged individuals.

Link to bitchute source w/video.

Rewatching/relistening to it and it's making things click.


----------



## “The Old Man” (May 19, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> Figured I should share it, as it sheds alotta light on some of the things earlier in this thread. Could possibly tie into the monkey pox and immune system disorders/vaccine damaged individuals.
> 
> Link to bitchute source w/video.


Definitely will re-watch and, do a bit of analysis.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 21, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Where I work is "tip of the spear" for surveillance on any diseases coming from China.  Our hospital is looped in to the CDC and HHS.  We've gotten...5 emails about this?  Our leadership also does a good job of putting stuff in context; i.e., "this is worse than X because....".  *Bottom line, this virus is no bueno.*


DD posted this on the first week of this thread…(Jan 2020)

He may win the award for most accurate fortune telling posted on this board.



Five days later…


pardus said:


> 5 confirmed cases in the USA now, located in AZ, CA, IL, WA.
> 
> CDC Coronavirus


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (May 22, 2022)

Yeah but @Devildoc miss cleo palm reading wasnt 100% on.   He talked me out of *making masks* and killed my chance at being a billionaire.  It's ok I dont like the moneys anyways.


----------



## Devildoc (May 22, 2022)

@Ooh-Rah , @SpongeBob*24 , I shot my wad on that.  I have been wrong about so many things since... my wife will confirm that I am always wrong anyway....


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 22, 2022)

One of my best buds just got hit hard with it; he’s had all of the shots and 2 boosters…I guess I’m left with this:


----------



## AWP (May 22, 2022)

Someone’s not trusting the science…


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 23, 2022)

Our Medical director just sent a memo out about BA2.12.02 or whatever the shit it's called saying we needed to mask up indoors.  Bitch I just flew without a mask to New Orleans. I felt so free.


----------



## RackMaster (May 24, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Our Medical director just sent a memo out about BA2.12.02 or whatever the shit it's called saying we needed to mask up indoors.  Bitch I just flew without a mask to New Orleans. I felt so free.



Do they give specifics?  At this point, unless they are providing fitted n95's and training; it's useless. My wife work's frontline, in residential, institutional and community settings.  They have mandatory masks, surgical among staff and n95 with client's; including outdoors.   They just started their third outbreak in a month.


----------



## AWP (May 24, 2022)

Want me to mask up? Fine, I'll do it. Provide me with the required equipment,.

(Crickets)

Fuck off.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 24, 2022)

AWP said:


> Provide me with the required equipment


That ain‘t gonna work, cause first “they” have to agree on what the required equipment even is!


----------



## Muppet (May 24, 2022)

Fuck the masks. Like I said before, I wore PAPRS for the first year, got legit ill as fuck. 

Got shots, no booster, worse N95s/surgical masks, rona this past Jan.

It's all fucking bullshit, panic. I don't wear them at work, barely wear em while pt transfer to ER, I'm over it.

In the beginning, masks save lives. Then, vaccines save lives. Then, double back, shots prevent ICU admission, yet, I have friends/co workers who have 3 jabs, were mask nazis, still in ICU or should have been.


----------



## Grunt (May 24, 2022)

Fauci and the CDC did nothing but create a lot of people like me - critical thinkers - who will never again believe anything they say. They are now simply viewed as a tool of the state who is working against me - rather than for me.


----------



## Muppet (May 24, 2022)

Grunt said:


> Fauci and the CDC did nothing but create a lot of people like me - critical thinkers - who will never again believe anything they say. They are now simply viewed as a tool of the state who is working against me - rather than for me.



This!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 3, 2022)

So vaccine mandates at events were still a thing, and someone at the Special Olympics thought it would be a good idea to host the USA Games in Florida...and keep the mandate in place.  Well...mandates like this are in fact discriminatory.  I get that these are our most vulnerable population.  But 12% of your athlete populace for the host state gets removed by keeping that in place.  An event that is all about inclusion. Well SO listened and shut the hell up. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532828144520110081


----------



## AWP (Jun 5, 2022)

Special Olympics...Florida...COVID...the jokes write themselves.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 14, 2022)

I can see the line up of wrongful dismissal lawsuits piling up.  Trudeau's arrogance kept this in place this whole time, even after multiple opportunities in Parliament to remove them. He had to wait for Biden to do it first.  

Ottawa to drop COVID-19 vaccine mandates, allowing unvaccinated Canadians to board planes, trains


----------



## AWP (Jun 14, 2022)

This past weekend GCX was in town, one of the big gaming conventions and one that features a large number of Destiny 2 content creators and the like (GCX is sponsored by Bungie, so go figure).

Errrrrrrybody coming down with the 'Rona right now. I was bummed I didn't go for at least one day, but now I'm looking like one of the smartest men on...not the planet. My street? 

COVID is a thing going forward, we're going to have to deal with it, but if you're going to large gatherings do your own risk assessment. You should always do that regardless, but...

Anyway, be a decent human being. Wash your hands, keep them away from your face, cough/ sneeze into your elbow...don't be a fucking dirty-assed pig.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 14, 2022)

The biggest secondary effect I hate about the entire Covid response is the fact that almost nothing is open past 10pm anymore.  Many stores close as early as 7pm now. 🤬


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 15, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> The biggest secondary effect I hate about the entire Covid response is the fact that almost nothing is open past 10pm anymore.  Many stores close as early as 7pm now. 🤬


I don't understand how the living holy fuck people are still ok with this fact. It's everywhere (except Vegas)- why are there curfews now? And I use the word "curfews" deliberately; you can either tell everyone they have to be in at 10pm and then enforce it, OR you simply shut everything down early and give people no reason to be out... which then allows you to police those people. 

Nonsense.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I don't understand how the living holy fuck people are still ok with this fact. It's everywhere (except Vegas)- why are there curfews now? And I use the word "curfews" deliberately; you can either tell everyone they have to be in at 10pm and then enforce it, OR you simply shut everything down early and give people no reason to be out... which then allows you to police those people.
> 
> Nonsense.



I’ve not heard of this? Is it because no one has staff? Where is this happening?


----------



## AWP (Jun 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I’ve not heard of this? Is it because no one has staff? Where is this happening?


Pretty much all of central and NE Florida. Is it an unofficial curfew, is it staff related, I have idea, but when Chili’s and Applebees won’t stay open past midnight, something is wrong. Some Denny’s aren’t even 24 hours anymore. Burger Kings here are just boarded up.

Even restaurants near Orlando International are closed by midnight.


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I’ve not heard of this? Is it because no one has staff? Where is this happening?


Happening everywhere, as far as I can tell. Airport restaurants closing at 700 pm (like, all of them in Dallas, about 3 weeks ago), lounges too. 

Restaurants in Washington (I can personally speak for the "coolest" parts of Seattle, Tacoma, Bellvue, Olympia) rarely stay open past 1200; more like 10 pm.

I've been to- Texas, Nevada, Alaska, Alabama, Cali, New Mexico, Ohio, Oregon and Florida in 2022, and I have noticed it in every single state (I was in Vegas last weekend and only noticed it in the airport). 

The Dallas Cowboys bar I was sitting at had last call at 1830, to close by 1900- my flight was originally scheduled at 830pm, but was delayed, with nearly every other flight (I ended up staying in Dallas, where I couldnt find anywhere that was open to dine in after about 8pm on that Sunday).


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Happening everywhere, as far as I can tell. Airport restaurants closing at 700 pm (like, all of them in Dallas, about 3 weeks ago), lounges too.
> 
> Restaurants in Washington (I can personally speak for the "coolest" parts of Seattle, Tacoma, Bellvue, Olympia) rarely stay open past 1200; more like 10 pm.
> 
> ...


Right?!  I'm headed to AZ in a couple weeks.  Assuming it isn't canceled, my flight is scheduled to arrive about 8pm.  I'm sure I won't be able to find anywhere open to grab a bite to eat or drink once I get there. That's just wrong.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Jun 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> Pretty much all of central and NE Florida. Is it an unofficial curfew, is it staff related, I have idea, but when Chili’s and Applebees won’t stay open past midnight, something is wrong. Some Denny’s aren’t even 24 hours anymore. Burger Kings here are just boarded up.
> 
> Even restaurants near Orlando International are closed by midnight.


My Daughter lives in Clermont. She has confirmed this in recent conversations.


----------



## AWP (Jun 15, 2022)

Tinman6 said:


> My Daughter lives in Clermont. She has confirmed this in recent conversations.



I was curious and did some quick research. Bars and places around UCF are open until 2AM. That stands to reason, but the airport? Crazy.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Jun 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> I was curious and did some quick research. Bars and places around UCF are open until 2AM. That stands to reason, but the airport? Crazy.


That is weird and, makes zero sense🤔


----------



## Kaldak (Jun 15, 2022)

Good to go here still. My preferred watering hole is til 2300 Sun-Thru, and until midnight Fri and Saturday. It's a nicer Irish Pub of sorts. Campus, places are until 0200 still, but I don't venture that way often. Granted, staffing hasn't been an issue.

No clue on the airport, but it closes up shop on last departure last I knew.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 15, 2022)

Much of Canada is the same.  A lot of places have reduced weeks as well.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Happening everywhere, as far as I can tell. Airport restaurants closing at 700 pm (like, all of them in Dallas, about 3 weeks ago), lounges too.
> 
> Restaurants in Washington (I can personally speak for the "coolest" parts of Seattle, Tacoma, Bellvue, Olympia) rarely stay open past 1200; more like 10 pm.
> 
> ...



I’m not questioning it. I have an 8 month old, I have been out past 10 once maybe in 16 months. From what I understand many places have a tough time filling staff. 

I may be naive, and probably am. But I don’t think businesses are closing because of some soft curfew from the government. I think they don’t have the ability to run a profitable business. Whether that is staffing, or something else I don’t know.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Jun 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I’m not questioning it. I have an 8 month old, I have been out past 10 once maybe in 16 months. From what I understand many places have a tough time filling staff.
> 
> I may be naive, and probably am. But I don’t think businesses are closing because of some soft curfew from the government. I think they don’t have the ability to run a profitable business. Whether that is staffing, or something else I don’t know.


Makes sense.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 15, 2022)

It's staffing issues. Nobody wants to work. It's a wonder people can pay bills.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Jun 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> It's staffing issues. Nobody wants to work. It's a wonder people can pay bills.


Yeah, Occam’s Razor applies here I would say. None of that mystery stuff.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I’m not questioning it. I have an 8 month old, I have been out past 10 once maybe in 16 months. From what I understand many places have a tough time filling staff.
> 
> I may be naive, and probably am. But I don’t think businesses are closing because of some soft curfew from the government. I think they don’t have the ability to run a profitable business. Whether that is staffing, or something else I don’t know.


That's the interesting thing. Why are there staffing shortages all of the sudden?

This is occuring across nearly all industries.  It ties directly to Covid and the government response at some level, yet, it makes no logical sense, economically or otherwise.

Are a significant number afraid to return to work?  If so, why?  Are they leaving the work force completely? How are they paying bills?  Surely most don’t have huge nest eggs saved up.  At the same time, many people appear eager to spend if given the opportunity - demand is there. 

This all happened within the last 2 years - like some one flipped a switch.  So, the government response and resulting staffing shortages, in many ways still has the same effect as a soft curfew, even in instances where it may be unintended.

And don’t get me started on product shortages...


----------



## racing_kitty (Jun 16, 2022)

It’s mainly been staffing issues down here. Some restaurants I know of have closed up shop because they wouldn’t have staffing to operate. One regional chain eatery a block down is open seven days a week near the beach and in the north part of the county, but is only open Wednesday through Sunday at the West Mobile location.  Once Mobile opened back up, they closed down for another 3-4mo because they didn’t have staffing to run the place. 

Many other restaurants close by 8pm, the grocery stores by 10pm, and Walmart closes at 11pm. I have to drive quite a few miles to find a 24hr gas station. 

At my place of business, we backed down our closing times by an hour because absolutely nobody wanted to work at a place that closed at midnight on weekdays and 0100 on Friday and Saturday. We couldn’t keep more than the core five line cooks longer than a week if they had to work closing shifts. The servers would quit because what little business would come in that last hour were teenagers who tried to dine and dash or they were so high they couldn’t remember what they ordered, which meant the server wouldn’t get tipped for shit.  

There’s quite a few bars that stay open later, and a couple of fast food joints have gone back to late night/all night drive through service. Yet we still have some Waffle Houses that go takeout only for third shift. 

As far as why, there’s a few reasons. Sure, there’s folks who didn’t want to work. There’s a lot more that just don’t want to work in the service industry anymore. They were treated like shit before covid, and it’s only gotten worse since the pandemic started. Some got disability, others got skills training and said “Fuck you Karen, and your entitled bullshit family. I’m out.” I don’t blame them.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2022)

Staffing, driven in part by the pandemic and especially on the government subsidies provided during the pandemic, seem to driving the business hours in my locale.  I went to my favorite local restaurant for lunch on Tuesday (normally just eat dinner there) and it was closed.  There are “Help Wanted” signs everywhere.  

We didn’t lose this many working age people in the pandemic.  Where did they go, and what are they doing now?


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

Not just closing early, but opening late: my wife wanted me to stop by Kohl's to pick something up she had ordered, Kohl's does not open until 10.  A lot of signs showing open hours like 6 or 7 hours.


----------



## Dame (Jun 16, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> That's the interesting thing. Why are there staffing shortages all of the sudden?
> 
> Are a significant number afraid to return to work?  If so, why?  Are they leaving the work force completely? How are they paying bills?  Surely most don’t have huge nest eggs saved up.  At the same time, many people appear eager to spend if given the opportunity - demand is there.
> 
> This all happened within the last 2 years - like some one flipped a switch.


This is how it looks from where I sit:

Many Boomers were still working when the pandemic hit. They had no intention of retiring. My first husband worked until he died and that was my plan too. But then we were forced to stay home. Retirement started looking like something we could actually do without going stir crazy. Next, the real estate market goes up and interest rates go down. "Ya know, I can sell this place and downsize and have little/no house payment."

So now, trickle down starts. The up and coming kids who've been waiting for an opening in their particular field now have them. Even the kids (30 yr olds) who are still in blue collar jobs making under $20 are starting to demand more because "hey, there's a labor shortage and you are paying the new hires more than me."

That was the switch that flipped. The Baby Boomers have driven the trends and economy for so long and were willing to work into their 70s. Now, not so much.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 16, 2022)

Here it's a combination of factors.   Inflation has caused many places to raise prices significantly.  Now they can't pay employee's enough for them to drive to work, due to insane gas prices. We'll be over $7 a gallon by July, for most of the country; some regions are already there.   And if they raise prices to cover higher wages, they can't compete and go out of business.  We lost a lot of businesses from the lockdowns.

Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays.  Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor. The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Here it's a combination of factors.   Inflation has caused many places to raise prices significantly.  Now they can't pay employee's enough for them to drive to work, due to insane gas prices. We'll be over $7 a gallon by July, for most of the country; some regions are already there.   And if they raise prices to cover higher wages, they can't compete and go out of business.  We lost a lot of businesses from the lockdowns.
> 
> Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays. * Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor.* The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.



This ties into the 'new normal' of poor customer service.  I don't fully blame the kids or young generation; they are not smart enough to know.  I also blame the parents for raising kids with poor work ethic and shitty attitudes.  All the consumer-driven businesses are so poorly staffed that these people will leave and go to another (fast food restaurant, store, shop, whatever), knowing they will get hired, even if they had been fired.

It is indeed a combination of factors (I think the buzz word is 'multimodal'), and just affecting one isn't going to work.

I will say this about COVID, and this is a double-edged sword (_a la_ Musk and his return-to-the-office mandate): COVID has really shown us what has to be done at the office, and what can be done remotely.  That genie is out, and ain't ever going back in the bottle.  I am glad that so many businesses have been forced to rethink operations and how to deliver the work.  Now we know.  But it has come at a price of a workforce that may refuse work unless it's remote/home.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 16, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> This ties into the 'new normal' of poor customer service.  I don't fully blame the kids or young generation; they are not smart enough to know.  I also blame the parents for raising kids with poor work ethic and shitty attitudes.  All the consumer-driven businesses are so poorly staffed that these people will leave and go to another (fast food restaurant, store, shop, whatever), knowing they will get hired, even if they had been fired.
> 
> It is indeed a combination of factors (I think the buzz word is 'multimodal'), and just affecting one isn't going to work.
> 
> I will say this about COVID, and this is a double-edged sword (_a la_ Musk and his return-to-the-office mandate): COVID has really shown us what has to be done at the office, and what can be done remotely.  That genie is out, and ain't ever going back in the bottle.  I am glad that so many businesses have been forced to rethink operations and how to deliver the work.  Now we know.  But it has come at a price of a workforce that may refuse work unless it's remote/home.



I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff. 

I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.

I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”? 

She is the manager and clinical educator. She treats everyone like dog shit. She and people like her in all fields are the reason no one can retain staff. In healthcare it is easy to say “I’m going to travel” and make 3x the money and not have to deal with these issues. 

Admin will be like “we aren’t retaining staff let’s pay more….” But most people in my generation would probably take less money for a better managed, less toxic environment. 

Everything isn’t a generational issue, but I think my generation and the one below is much less likely to stick it out and be loyal, while we watched our fathers get layed off when they turned 60, pensions disappear, and have realized how unlikely our dreams are from actually being realized.


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## Muppet (Jun 16, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.
> 
> I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.
> 
> ...



A good half of RNs I know that are/were in the ED have left for travel, they are burnt from the politics. 

Hell, I have a good EMS job but, it I could leave now, I would. 22 years is enough for me.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.
> 
> I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to LOL, but LOL.  I hate people like that.  When I teach new educators, I teach them to be the anti that.

When I mean kids and young generation, I mean the folks we see as cashiers, baggers, front-line CS staff, at the drive-thru, working the clothing racks, etc.  I have seen some flat-out tell a supervisor, "I ain't doing that."  I have seen one tell a customer "you know, you don't have to shop here, you can just leave."  These things tend to follow an age range.  It isn't about money when they can leave and go next door (to the store that also has 10 openings) and make the same thing, even if they are fired.

Two of my three working sons left Harris-Teeter because of poor management, went to Chik-Fil-A where they are valued, trained, and incentivized.  They love it there.

There is absolutely shitty work ethic in our field as demonstrated by your story.  That's in a class all by itself.  

As for taking a job for less $ but better work environment, that's why I am where I am.  And not the first time (in nursing or out) I have done that, either.


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## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

Muppet said:


> A good half of RNs I know that are/were in the ED have left for travel, they are burnt from the politics.
> 
> Hell, I have a good EMS job but, it I could leave now, I would. 22 years is enough for me.



When I started in the ED it was about 85% staff, 15% travelers.  Now it's about 50/50.  Also the average experience went from 12 years to 2.

Nursing has a whole set of struggles all its own, and most are self-induced.  I could write a book about how fucked up we are.

Edited to add, almost all of my former EMS colleagues are retiring or nearly retiring, but every one of them still has to work doing something.  That is a freaking shame.  That's not 'retirement.'


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I witnessed what is basically my nightmare last night. Granted this is healthcare, but I think that it shows how many people see things.
> 
> I am in the OR for an urgent C-section, I had placed an epidural earlier in the day, and had dosed it. We are waiting on surgeon. Some prolly 50 year old nurse comes in and starts bossing everybody around. Telling techs their PPE is incorrect, hollering at the OR nurse, Just being a nuisance. My patient is awake, not sedated at all. She then starts to come at me with bullshit. “Why doesn’t the patient have oxygen?” And other nonsense. Me: “Well the patient isn’t sedated, she is talking, and she is a healthy 25 year old.” I get an eye roll, on my response, and probably got written up. I’m not an employee here, so after she walks out I ask “who was that”?
> 
> ...


I believe we have footage of this. Is this her? 🤣


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## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

I think more Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest:


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## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I don’t think it is shitty work ethic to want to be rewarded for your work. People have options. Management at many places have had no issues paying substandard wages for so long, that in the current competitive environment they do not know how to properly retain staff.


I think it's multi-faceted; poor work ethic being one of those.  Entitlement being another.

I was very seriously looking to open a small side business last year as simply a may to augment my current income.  This business would've had a brick and mortor storefront.  I had a solid business plan, great site location (lease in hand), complete build out plans, etc....all solved except for staffing. I ultimately decided to shelf the idea for now because obtaining/retaining staff at a wage commensurate with the work is too challenging in the current environment, even with the current inflated wages.

Businesses are in business to make money.  It's that simple.  Now, consider a small business, like a coffee shop or ice cream shop.  How much product do they need to sell and at what price point in order to cover a $17/hr barista or ice cream scooper.  These are entry level, unskilled positions.  High schoolers should fill these types of jobs.  So, in many cases it just doesn't make good financial sense.

But as pointed out by others here, the problem goes beyond the service industries. The issue is also visible in more skilled and professional industries.  Finding qualified candidates is a nightmare.  I've seen huge challenges finding help in everything from high school coaches/officials to lifeguards to IT developers to building trades to executive level project/program managers.  We saw some in healthcare forced out due to mandates and, as a result, we see shortages there too.  And of course there's all the nonsense taking place with law enforcement as well.


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## Muppet (Jun 16, 2022)

Fauci has the plague. Crazy. I thought masks worked. The biggest mask/vaccine, science pushing, mask Karen has the rona.

Guess, masks don't work or, the cunt does not practice what he preaches.


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## SpitfireV (Jun 16, 2022)

Some of you guys sound like you're 110 years old sitting in the home. Guess what, your parents complained about your generation and theirs and theirs and theirs until literally 2500 years ago when generational complaints were first recorded.


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## Devildoc (Jun 16, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Some of you guys sound like you're 110 years old sitting in the home. Guess what, your parents complained about your generation and theirs and theirs and theirs until literally 2500 years ago when generational complaints were first recorded.



They say 110 is the new 53, and I am, in fact, 53.

I am absolutely certain my mother bitched about me and my generation. Why am I certain? I heard that almost everyday.

The only reason I framed my responses the way I did was because that was my 'n', my sample size.  And none of our grocery stores, fast food restaurants, or retail stores have I seen many people at the front line above I would say 25. That said, my specific gripes that I mentioned are for people that I've seen that are probably somewhere between 17 and 22.  

Now to throw a little bit of balance I guess, when I go places it like Lowe's or Home Depot, It seems the average age is a little older, and I would say while the cashiers still fit my description above, the people whom I ask DIY questions are a bit older and have been very helpful.  

I am not dogging on all the generations, or even specifically the young generation, specifically the people I observe and the generation they happen to be in.


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## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Some of you guys sound like you're 110 years old sitting in the home. Guess what, your parents complained about your generation and theirs and theirs and theirs until literally 2500 years ago when generational complaints were first recorded.


I have no idea what you're talking about but GET OFF MY LAWN!


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## Cookie_ (Jun 16, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Then there's the up and coming generation that won't settle for anything less than remote work and/or Mon-Fri, 8-4; with all the benefits and holidays.  Many also refuse any difficulty or physical labor. The concept of equality of outcome, pushed in education; has come to roost.



The pandemic clearly showed that for almost any non-hands on/blue collar industry that remote work and more consistent schedules did little to impact the function of those industries. Why the hell would you willing work bullshit hours when you know you don't have to?

Same thing about "benefits and holidays". Again; it's the employers job to intice workers, not the workers job to take whatever is open, treatment be damned.



Blizzard said:


> I think it's multi-faceted; poor work ethic being one of those.  Entitlement being another.
> 
> I was very seriously looking to open a small side business last year as simply a may to augment my current income.  This business would've had a brick and mortor storefront.  I had a solid business plan, great site location (lease in hand), complete build out plans, etc....all solved except for staffing. I ultimately decided to shelf the idea for now because obtaining/retaining staff at a wage commensurate with the work is too challenging in the current environment, even with the current inflated wages.
> 
> Businesses are in business to make money.  It's that simple.  Now, consider a small business, like a coffee shop or ice cream shop.  How much product do they need to sell and at what price point in order to cover a $17/hr barista or ice cream scooper.  *These are entry level, unskilled positions.  High schoolers should fill these types of jobs.*  So, in many cases it just doesn't make good financial sense.



There's no such thing as unskilled labor. 
When's the last time you've worked as a barista at a busy coffee shop, or done any sort of service industry "unskilled" work?

It absolutely takes skill to produce, you just don't value it. 
If all these jobs should be done by high schoolers, I'd imagine your fine with these businesses only running after school hours and before curfew, right? That's the only time these kids can work after all.

The idea of "it's a kids job" is about 20 years out of date.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 16, 2022)

@Dame hit on one of the single biggest drivers of this; a shit ton of older people are just leaving the workforce because they've finally decided to retire.

 Also add in that a bunch left to take care of family (medical/parental) and there's another decent chunk gone.

As far as service industry type jobs go, it isn't the 80s/90s anymore. Those of us in the older millennial generation (late 80s early 90s) on down all understand that most of these jobs are bullshit. Why work for a restaurant at $12 a hour when I could uber and make more than that?

Everybody spent years saying "if you want to get paid more, get a better job" but are now acting like it's a crime that their local businesses don't stay open past 9pm. 

Why is it the workers fault for being "entitled" because these businesses can't run without underpaying staff? 

That's capitalism in action. If you can't pay enough to keep employees and make a profit, your business isn't meant to survive in this system.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> *There's no such thing as unskilled labor.*
> When's the last time you've worked as a barista at a busy coffee shop, or done any sort of service industry "unskilled" work?




Pretty sure there is.


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## Polar Bear (Jun 16, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> That's the interesting thing. Why are there staffing shortages all of the sudden?
> 
> This is occuring across nearly all industries.  It ties directly to Covid and the government response at some level, yet, it makes no logical sense, economically or otherwise.
> 
> ...


Well I know for a fact most tip based workers make more off of unemployment. Like up to $500 more a week


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## Marauder06 (Jun 16, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> Well I know for a fact most tip based workers make more off of unemployment. Like up to $500 more a week


That was the case for my sister.  Why go back to work if you can get paid more (at least temporarily) to stay at home with your kids?


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## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> There's no such thing as unskilled labor.
> When's the last time you've worked as a barista at a busy coffee shop, or done any sort of service industry "unskilled" work?
> 
> It absolutely takes skill to produce, you just don't value it.
> ...


Disagree. 

Unskilled labor is a thing.  It's simply any job that requires very little training (say a few hours) to do well.  My statement was not intended to be offensive, even if it was, but jobs, such as a barista fit this definition well. And, yes, I've worked in the service industry.

Don't confuse unskilled labor with unvalued.  Those are two separate things. These may be very critical positions for a business to staff. Ex. Jimmy John's can't serve sandwiches if no one is willing to make them.  Nonetheless, the value (and we all have an unwritten price tag assigned to our skills and experience) has to make financial sense in the context of the business.

As for my statement about such jobs being suitable for high schooler, I stand by that.  However, that doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be performed by others as well.  There are clearly many scenarios for which this work is suitable and maybe even desirable. As mentioned, these are jobs that are needed.  So, mine was not intended to be a derogatory statement about the work but rather a statement as to the barrier to entry to those positions.  Pay should be commensurate with skill required.


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## Blizzard (Jun 16, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> Well I know for a fact most tip based workers make more off of unemployment. Like up to $500 more a week


That indeed is a problem.  Compile that with rent deferment and well...why work?


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## CQB (Jun 17, 2022)

As for the staff shortages mentioned above, the US rate of unemployment is about 3.6% & here we have the same problem of no available workers as our unemployment is 3.9% which equates to full employment in both cases. The other point with people not wanting to work low paid jobs is that they can get a simple pay rise by getting a better job as there's plenty on offer currently.


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## Blizzard (Jun 17, 2022)

CQB said:


> As for the staff shortages mentioned above, the US rate of unemployment is about 3.6% & here we have the same problem of no available workers as our unemployment is 3.9% which equates to full employment in both cases. The other point with people not wanting to work low paid jobs is that they can get a simple pay rise by getting a better job as there's plenty on offer currently.


Need be careful with unemployment rates though. It's representative of people actively seeking work. In the past 2 years, many simply left the workforce for some unexplained reason and as a result not included in unemployment numbers.


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## RackMaster (Jun 17, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Need be careful with unemployment rates though. It's representative of people actively seeking work. In the past 2 years, many simply left the workforce for some unexplained reason and as a result not included in unemployment numbers.



Canada's rate is 5.4% but add in those that stopped looking, it's 7.4%.  Thankfully the government still publishes the full numbers but the media won't, it makes their masters look bad.


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## digrar (Jun 18, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> a $17/hr barista or ice cream scooper.  These are entry level, unskilled positions.



That's why our coffee is better than yours. You're paying $30 an hour to secure a good barista in Melbourne and they are driving customers into you business, they're well worth the money.


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## SpitfireV (Jun 18, 2022)

Unskilled labour is a misnomer and is probably a symptom of someone with a degree wanting to feel special. The fact is, nearly everything we do (bar subconscious stuff like breathing) is a learned skill. Walking, talking, shooting guns, making coffee, digging holes el al are all skills because we had to learn to do those things. I doubt any of us here could, say, build a satellite without education and training. Does that make us unskilled in comparison to that scientist? No. Lesser skilled in a technical sense perhaps but we might have skills we're better at than him or her. I guarantee there are people working in low paid retail that can communicate far better on a person to person level than some people here. 

That's why there is no such thing as unskilled labour.


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## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2022)

It sounds like a lot of people are trying to slice a pie of semantics.  A "skill" is an action or a thing which is learned but perishable.  

In the workforce unskilled labor is labor which has not been taught a specific skill. To that end, there is indeed unskilled labor.  Is a barista unskilled labor? Well since I can be taught in about 90 seconds how to do it, and you can, and you can and you can, it can be argued that no, that is not a skill.  

Stepping out of the clouds of semantics and policy words, I see a lot of unskilled labor, and my three sons in the workforce frequently tell us stories about people who are probably in the category of unskilled labor (cannot learn how to run a register, so they bag groceries or stock shelves).  Contrast to the congregated throngs of people (usually Hispanics) hanging out in front of Lowe's and Home Depot, waiting for day labor, they are very skilled labor, that are often not counted in the labor hours for unemployment/employment numbers.  But they are very skilled labor.

There is a great movie once, Caddyshack, in which one character says to another that he wants to go to law school and the judge to whom he is speaking says, "well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."

Just because someone is unskilled labor does not make them unvaluable in the workforce.


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Unskilled labour is a misnomer and is probably a symptom of someone with a degree wanting to feel special. The fact is, nearly everything we do (bar subconscious stuff like breathing) is a learned skill. Walking, talking, shooting guns, making coffee, digging holes el al are all skills because we had to learn to do those things. I doubt any of us here could, say, build a satellite without education and training. Does that make us unskilled in comparison to that scientist? No. Lesser skilled in a technical sense perhaps but we might have skills we're better at than him or her. I guarantee there are people working in low paid retail that can communicate far better on a person to person level than some people here.
> 
> That's why there is no such thing as unskilled labour.



Matter of semantics, just like what "middle class" means in the UK is far different from what middle class means in the US.

Skilled Labor- Plumber, Mason, Electrician, Mechanic

Unskilled Labor- Fastfood Worker, Barista



digrar said:


> That's why our coffee is better than yours. You're paying $30 an hour to secure a good barista in Melbourne and they are driving customers into you business, they're well worth the money.



Your espresso is weaker.


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## Blizzard (Jun 18, 2022)

digrar said:


> That's why our coffee is better than yours. You're paying $30 an hour to secure a good barista in Melbourne and they are driving customers into you business, they're well worth the money.


I don’t begrudge anyone for making as much as they possibly can but anyone making $30 an hour as a barista is WAY overpaid and should hold it while they can. 😀

How the hell did this become a thread on the value of a fucking barista?!  This is about the last place I would expect to see this discussion. LOL


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## AWP (Jun 18, 2022)

I think a worker shortage is driven by a lot of factors including location.

Here in Orlando, you see "now hiring" signs everywhere. In a town with a major university. My wife has a number of teens and college students working for her. Some have flat out stated that will take less money to avoid fast food. If my bills are covered, I can't say that I blame their position because I'd do the same. You also have businesses that have signage, but refuse to hire. There was a guy last year who applied for 60-ish and had what? 4-5 emails returned and fewer actual interviews? It was a wildly disproportionate number as I recall. If businesses are receiving a stimulus of any kind (I don't know if they are) or people can make more on the dole than working...we should not be surprised if no one is hiring or no one wants to work; there's no incentive to be on a payroll or put someone on a payroll.

Theme parks here...customers are returning but the parks aren't hiring. Disney cut something like 90% of its workforce in the parks, but even as numbers return to normal Disney has not filled those positions. Businesses have learned their profit margins are just fine with fewer employees even if that means fewer hours open or longer lines for the customer. If customers are showing up, why hire more people? Disney is going to a cost model where it only wants the rich to show up. It can charge more for tickets, food, and souvenirs and have a smaller staff if fewer people are willing to pay a great deal more for the Disney experience. 

Regarding "lazy" youth. If you can run a mile in 6 minutes, that dude running his in 6:30 is slow. If you have a kick ass output, anyone behind you is "slow" or "lazy" or whatever. Are today's youth lazy or have they just not learned a work ethic? My wife sees so many kids whose parents didn't raise them as much as they threw money at a problem. Buying your kid a new car for high school isn't teaching a work ethic. Some of these "kids" have great lives, but no life lessons. I do mean none, but that's for a different post. 

Like a lot of problems in the world today, this is complex, nuanced, and can vary in scope and solution from one city to the next. My solution for Orlando isn't a solution for Tampa or Miami, much less Seattle or Los Angeles, you know?


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## ThunderHorse (Jun 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> I think a worker shortage is driven by a lot of factors including location.
> 
> Here in Orlando, you see "now hiring" signs everywhere. In a town with a major university. My wife has a number of teens and college students working for her. Some have flat out stated that will take less money to avoid fast food. If my bills are covered, I can't say that I blame their position because I'd do the same. You also have businesses that have signage, but refuse to hire. There was a guy last year who applied for 60-ish and had what? 4-5 emails returned and fewer actual interviews? It was a wildly disproportionate number as I recall. If businesses are receiving a stimulus of any kind (I don't know if they are) or people can make more on the dole than working...we should not be surprised if no one is hiring or no one wants to work; there's no incentive to be on a payroll or put someone on a payroll.
> 
> ...



I don't know about DisneyWorld. 

But Disneyland has been on the "only rich people" train for a decade and a half.  The only way it makes sense I guess is to buy a pass, but then you have to go way more than twice/year.  A Single trip even by yourself $108. It's been over hundred bucks for ages too.  Even though Six Flags and Knotts Berry Farm have not approached the century mark at all in SoCal. I know it's not the Mouse, but here in Dallas Six Flags over Texas is $35/day.  That price probably hasn't changed in 15 years.


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## AWP (Jun 18, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I don't know about DisneyWorld.
> 
> But Disneyland has been on the "only rich people" train for a decade and a half.  The only way it makes sense I guess is to buy a pass, but then you have to go way more than twice/year.  A Single trip even by yourself $108. It's been over hundred bucks for ages too.  Even though Six Flags and Knotts Berry Farm have not approached the century mark at all in SoCal. I know it's not the Mouse, but here in Dallas Six Flags over Texas is $35/day.  That price probably hasn't changed in 15 years.



Maybe there is, but I'm not aware of a park in Orlando offering general admission for less than $100 a day. Florida residents or other groups might get a break, but in general you're looking at around $110 person.


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## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Maybe there is, but I'm not aware of a park in Orlando offering general admission for less than $100 a day. Florida residents or other groups might get a break, but in general you're looking at around $110 person.



Up until the early '90s I had my original admission ticket to Disney World in Orlando from the late '70s, and I think it was 30 bucks...

Even other theme/amusement parks are $75/ticket or more.


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## Muppet (Jun 20, 2022)

More mask tardism.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 20, 2022)

My daughter's high school graduation is taking place on West Point.  West Point no longer requires masking or proof of vaccination to come on post (moot to me because I was one of the first batch of vaccinations in NY state).  But anyone coming to the ceremony has to show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 3 days in order to get in.

Why?  This seems like an additional unnecessary and intrusive administrative burden on both the hosts and the guests.

The vaccinations don't work.  Or at least they don't work as advertised.  So why the medical theater?  Anyone coming can wear a mask if they are uncomfortable with the crowd, and no one will bat an eye or give them any kind of harassment.  My medical status is no one else's business unless I choose to share it, why do I have to "show my papers" to go to my daughter's graduation?


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## R.Caerbannog (Jun 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> My daughter's high school graduation is taking place on West Point.  West Point no longer requires masking or proof of vaccination to come on post (moot to me because I was one of the first batch of vaccinations in NY state).  But anyone coming to the ceremony has to show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 3 days in order to get in.
> 
> Why?  This seems like an additional unnecessary and intrusive administrative burden on both the hosts and the guests.
> 
> The vaccinations don't work.  Or at least they don't work as advertised.  So why the medical theater?  Anyone coming can wear a mask if they are uncomfortable with the crowd, and no one will bat an eye or give them any kind of harassment.  My medical status is no one else's business unless I choose to share it, why do I have to "show my papers" to go to my daughter's graduation?


It's about control dude. A more cynical person might even say it's a ritual of humiliation wrought upon us by lesser men.


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## Muppet (Jun 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> My daughter's high school graduation is taking place on West Point.  West Point no longer requires masking or proof of vaccination to come on post (moot to me because I was one of the first batch of vaccinations in NY state).  But anyone coming to the ceremony has to show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 3 days in order to get in.
> 
> Why?  This seems like an additional unnecessary and intrusive administrative burden on both the hosts and the guests.
> 
> The vaccinations don't work.  Or at least they don't work as advertised.  So why the medical theater?  Anyone coming can wear a mask if they are uncomfortable with the crowd, and no one will bat an eye or give them any kind of harassment.  My medical status is no one else's business unless I choose to share it, why do I have to "show my papers" to go to my daughter's graduation?



Exactly, medical theater. Vaccines don't work as promised, sure it may, I stress may, keep you out of ICU, though, I have a few friends, fully jabbed, had plague once already, sick now, probably should be in hospital. 

I recall our lord and savior Fauci saying, vaccines prevent, it does not, masks prevent, it does not. It's a shotgun approach to avoid litigation, maybe. 

It's all nonsense. It is about control.


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## Muppet (Jun 23, 2022)

Watching Spanish music awards from PR. Some of the audience are wearing masks and they are all over each other, masked up, taking narcissistic selfies.

I think they don't understand the concept of masks vs large groups of people. 

Ilk.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 23, 2022)

Biden says there will be another pandemic. How does he know that? 

Ok, cool.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 24, 2022)

Topkick said:


> Biden says there will be another pandemic. How does he know that?
> 
> Ok, cool.



The old bastard was like, ohhh, don't think I should have said that.

But, he said what some of us feel. This was a test, the control aspect.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 24, 2022)

Muppet said:


> The old bastard was like, ohhh, don't think I should have said that.
> 
> But, he said what some of us feel. This was a test, the control aspect.




I hear a LOT of people say they won't play along again, won't wear masks or be locked down, or whatever restrictions the feds put on us. But they will.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 24, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I hear a LOT of people say they won't play along again, won't wear masks or be locked down, or whatever restrictions the feds put on us. But they will.



I feel you're right. Though, I'm sure many will fight back. That said, we'll see law enforcement and federal government/state governments use force, like Australia to enforce. Mark my words.

If that happens, it will solidify why 2A was written.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 24, 2022)

As soon as the old Geezard made masks mandatory, our local sheriff and police chief both said they absolutely will not enforce that policy. You will have some states/ localities fight back like Texas and Florida did, but you may be right, the Feds could step in. That's not supposed to happen, but we are not living in normal times.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 24, 2022)

My mother-in-law is in skilled nursing/rehab.  Her sister flew in last week from Colorado, spending time with my MIL, last Saturday at a nephew's bday party, spent last Sunday with us...tested positive last Monday morning, with fever, cough, chills, yadda yadda yadda.  We feel fine and my wife and daughter have tested negative (wife doing the right thing so she can still visit her mom).  Me, don't care.  I am done with tests.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 24, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> My mother-in-law is in skilled nursing/rehab.  Her sister flew in last week from Colorado, spending time with my MIL, last Saturday at a nephew's bday party, spent last Sunday with us...tested positive last Monday morning, with fever, cough, chills, yadda yadda yadda.  We feel fine and my wife and daughter have tested negative (wife doing the right thing so she can still visit her mom).  Me, don't care.  I am done with tests.



Same here. Done with tests, masks. The plague is endemic. I had it twice  had my 2 shots, no booster. Refuse to get additional shots. As mentioned before, wore masks the entire time, shots, still got plague, twice. Can't live in fear. I'm an adult. I'll do what I need to. Fuck that socialist mentality of "we are all in this together" or "I wear my mask for you, you wear it for me". It's all gay. It's all virtue signaling. It's all theatrics. It was a test, most of us failed and will suckle the teet of any government to secure our safety.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 24, 2022)

Muppet said:


> It was a test, most of us failed and will suckle the teet of any government to secure our safety.


Yep. Now, even so- called conservative politicians are offering to "make us safer" by agreeing to new gun laws. No thanks.


----------



## AWP (Jun 24, 2022)

IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 27, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Disagree.
> 
> Unskilled labor is a thing.  It's simply any job that requires very little training (say a few hours) to do well.  My statement was not intended to be offensive, even if it was, but jobs, such as a barista fit this definition well. And, yes, I've worked in the service industry.
> 
> ...


Following up some of these thoughts with an observation tonight.

I stopped at Jimmy John's to get a sandwich. But it was 5 min before close.  Nonetheless, I walked in, knowing the 2 people working there probably wouldn't be thrilled; I can see they working on their close clean-up tasks. The girl behind  the register asks if I have a pick up/take out order.  I said "no".  She said, "ah, yeah, well we're closed". I checked my watch and walked back out.  They were definitely shutting down early, but I get it and I certainly wasn't going to argue about it - besides, would you really want her making your sandwich if you did? 

Anyway, I still need to grab something to eat, so I stop at a nearby Wendy's instead.  As I pull up to the drive-thru, I can see there are only 2 guys working - dining room is closed. There is one car ahead of me.in the poorly lit drive-thru. After kind of a lengthy wait considering just one car ahead of me and a closed dining room, I pull forward to the mic. and a run down drive thru menu board with taped on paper signs stating they don't take Apple Pay.  After waiting a couple more min, the guy comes on the mic and says, "I'll be with you in just a minute but just so you know my credit card reader isn't working, so we're cash only,"  I didn't have much cash on me, so I told him thanks and I was leaving.

Next stop, Chick-fil-A.  First, observation, the place is neat/tidy and well lit.  The dining room and drive-thru are open. Both drive-thru lanes are open and there's quite a line.  The dining room is busy too.  The line moves fairly quickly.  The staff is friendly as always.  When I get to the window to pay, I can see they're fully staffed...probably at least 10 employees.  My food is ready, the transaction is prompt.  It's as smooth an operation as you'd want.

The contrast between competitors is stark.  So, what is Chick-fil-A doing differently than their competitors?  How are they attracting, training, and retaining employees with an entirely different attitude and approach?  Pay is not significantly different, if there is any difference. Apparently, it's just their training and operating model.  I find it pretty interesting. It's the only retail/fast-food type service company where I've not noticed any decline in service the past couple years. No signs, no excuses.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 27, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Following up some of these thoughts with an observation tonight.
> 
> I stopped at Jimmy John's to get a sandwich. But it was 5 min before close.  Nonetheless, I walked in, knowing the 2 people working there probably wouldn't be thrilled; I can see they working on their close clean-up tasks. The girl behind  the register asks if I have a pick up/take out order.  I said "no".  She said, "ah, yeah, well we're closed". I checked my watch and walked back out.  They were definitely shutting down early, but I get it and I certainly wasn't going to argue about it - besides, would you really want her making your sandwich if you did?
> 
> ...



I'm convinced if Chic Fil A ran the federal government, our republic would be in good shape.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Following up some of these thoughts with an observation tonight.
> 
> I stopped at Jimmy John's to get a sandwich. But it was 5 min before close.  Nonetheless, I walked in, knowing the 2 people working there probably wouldn't be thrilled; I can see they working on their close clean-up tasks. The girl behind  the register asks if I have a pick up/take out order.  I said "no".  She said, "ah, yeah, well we're closed". I checked my watch and walked back out.  They were definitely shutting down early, but I get it and I certainly wasn't going to argue about it - besides, would you really want her making your sandwich if you did?
> 
> ...



I have two sons who work there, both of whom love it. They have great leadership, it's a very structured organization, there's room for advancement, and they have opportunities to do things with their co-workers off hours, movies, trips to the lake, etc.  Most importantly is the leadership and the fact that everyone who works there is nice and likeable and they feel valued and respected by leadership.

Re: COVID, My wife's good friend, she and her family just caught it, allegedly for the first time. What makes this deliciously ironic is when they come over the visit they refuse to come inside, and we have to be outside at greater than 6 ft intervals. Her husband refuses to let anyone outside their family into their house (now for two and a half years!), And they are 100% vaccinated, 100% wear masks every time they leave the house.


----------



## AWP (Jun 28, 2022)

Funny...I haven't seen an alarmist news story or begging/ pleading/ threatening news conference about Covid in... a long time. It is almost like it doesn't exist.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Funny...I haven't seen an alarmist news story or begging/ pleading/ threatening news conference about Covid in... a long time. It is almost like it doesn't exist.



Up here the media didn't even slow down, let alone stop.  It's summer time, we can't let people enjoy it.  If it's not Covid they are doubling down on Climate Change hysteria, even though their policies; like carbon taxes are making people choose to not work because they can't afford the commute.  Because of lockdowns, many realize that if they just stay home, they can refuse to pay rent indefinitely and live off of never ending government benefits.  



> However, the ministers warned vaccine mandates and other COVID-19 health measures being lifted in recent days and weeks could return if the situation changes in Canada, particularly if a variant of concern emerges and begins to spread.


COVID-19: Canada to update its ‘fully-vaccinated’ definition - National | Globalnews.ca

Infected with COVID-19? Cuddling your pet cat or dog can make them sick, says study - National | Globalnews.ca

Canada seeing rise in COVID-19 subvariants. Could this lead to a summer surge? - National | Globalnews.ca

WHO adviser says G7 leaders must prioritize COVID-19 or face economic harm, unrest - The Globe and Mail


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2022)

Went more than two years without copping the 'Vid, I'm even fucking boosted. And I started feeling like crap mid-flight from Newark, my lady told me she had tested positive before I landed. Tested last night after feeling like trash packing a sprinter for a move to Dallas.

For me, this has been like the Flu/bad cold/sinus infection.

I probably did this to myself with two nights of really heavy drinking with people from work and suppressed my immune system.  But which one of the assholes from work gave it to me? 🤔


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 28, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> The contrast between competitors is stark. So, what is Chick-fil-A doing differently than their competitors? How are they attracting, training, and retaining employees with an entirely different attitude and approach? Pay is not significantly different, if there is any difference. Apparently, it's just their training and operating model. I find it pretty interesting. It's the only retail/fast-food type service company where I've not noticed any decline in service the past couple years. No signs, no excuses.



I can't speak for your part of the country, chik-fil-A absolutely pays it's workers more than those other locations. 

A Wendy's shift manager out here earns 13.50-15.00 a hour; the cashiers at chik-fil-a start at 13.50, cooks start at 15.00. I believe the managers start at around 18-20 right now. 

One difference between the two (and other fast food chains) is that chik-fil-a invests in its entry level workers. People who actually get more than a "thrown in the frying pan" type training, and are paid for it. 
The other difference is that Chik-fil-A is willing to spend the money to ensure quality. They don't "need" 10 staff to run that last hour of service, but they'll bite the bullet on cost because that's the standard the franchise demands.

IDK if you've ever been to a Culvers or an In-N-Out, but it's the same thing with staff there; they are compensated well and not treated like shit by management


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Following up some of these thoughts with an observation tonight.
> 
> I stopped at Jimmy John's to get a sandwich. But it was 5 min before close.  Nonetheless, I walked in, knowing the 2 people working there probably wouldn't be thrilled; I can see they working on their close clean-up tasks. The girl behind  the register asks if I have a pick up/take out order.  I said "no".  She said, "ah, yeah, well we're closed". I checked my watch and walked back out.  They were definitely shutting down early, but I get it and I certainly wasn't going to argue about it - besides, would you really want her making your sandwich if you did?
> 
> ...


The first stop should ALWAYS be Chik-Fil-A.  Always.  ;)


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2022)

In staff meeting now, 2 coworkers down with COVID.  I don't think we've had more than one with it at any point since this thing began.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Funny...I haven't seen an alarmist news story or begging/ pleading/ threatening news conference about Covid in... a long time. It is almost like it doesn't exist.


I expect we'll see an outbreak again around late-Sept/early-Oct.  Fortunately, it should be a short one.  I predict it'll be done on Nov 9.


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The first stop should ALWAYS be Chik-Fil-A.  Always.  ;)


Noted. 🙂


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I can't speak for your part of the country, chik-fil-A absolutely pays it's workers more than those other locations.
> 
> A Wendy's shift manager out here earns 13.50-15.00 a hour; the cashiers at chik-fil-a start at 13.50, cooks start at 15.00. I believe the managers start at around 18-20 right now.
> 
> ...


Concur on Culver's!  Not quite Chick-fil-A level but very close.  We don't have In-N-Out up here.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2022)

People think Culver's is good? 🤢


----------



## Blizzard (Jun 28, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> People think Culver's is good? 🤢


Speaking more in terms of their staffing and service.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Funny...I haven't seen an alarmist news story or begging/ pleading/ threatening news conference about Covid in... a long time. It is almost like it doesn't exist.



The lemmings have been redirected toward abortion and the Jan 6th committee, following detours into gun control and Pride month. Ukraine and Covid are on the back burners but can be resurrected at need.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 28, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> I expect we'll see an outbreak again around late-Sept/early-Oct.  Fortunately, it should be a short one.  I predict it'll be done on Nov 9.



And we’ll see a noticeable (but temporary) dip in fuel prices two weeks prior to the mid-terms.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2022)

The graduation ceremony for my oldest was held on post.  Open to the public, but everyone had to have proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 3 days.  Not a big deal to me since the Army required me to get a vaccination (which didn't stop me from getting COVID) right when they started becoming available.  But it was an onerous requirement for family members of mine who are not vaccinated, or who got the jabs but aren't habituated to living in "show me your papers" states.

So my unvaccinated family members got the test, and I dug out my COVID vaccination card.

..then, .no COVID checks at graduation.  As it should be; my vaccination status is none of your business.  But why then make everyone go through the rigmarole of getting vaccinated or tested (or not coming)?

More "security theater."


----------



## amlove21 (Jun 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Funny...I haven't seen an alarmist news story or begging/ pleading/ threatening news conference about Covid in... a long time. It is almost like it doesn't exist.


Didn't we have new variants every 2-4 months? Not a single one since Omicron eh? That's pretty strange. EyeRoll.jpg


----------



## Muppet (Jun 28, 2022)

Yall heard papa Biden, twice now speak of another pandemic, right?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2022)

Anecdotally, more people where I am are becoming infected now than they were at the height of the pandemic.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Anecdotally, more people where I am are becoming infected now than they were at the height of the pandemic.



Same here. It's endemic, its here to stay. The folks that thought they were being safe are getting hit and wondering why. I love it. Lol. Yep. All that time, us "conspiracy nuts, plague rats" were being treated like second class citizens because we refused to mask or get the jab, both I had to for work are now told, "please, be nice to those that still mask, each person has to make a decision".

Wait, before, if we did not jab up or wear a face diaper, we were not patriotic and did not care for others, now, to each their own?

Na, I'm a fucking prick, I shame the lemmings. Fuck em. Bring the dislike and hate, it's all nonsense. Folks like us said so, we were laughed at. I'm over the lies and I'm over the virtue signaling ilks that buy into it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The graduation ceremony for my oldest was held on post.  Open to the public, but everyone had to have proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 3 days.  Not a big deal to me since the Army required me to get a vaccination (which didn't stop me from getting COVID) right when they started becoming available.  But it was an onerous requirement for family members of mine who are not vaccinated, or who got the jabs but aren't habituated to living in "show me your papers" states.
> 
> So my unvaccinated family members got the test, and I dug out my COVID vaccination card.
> 
> ...


Of course they aren't checking. I bet the requirements actually changed and they willfully chose not to update the website.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Anecdotally, more people where I am are becoming infected now than they were at the height of the pandemic.



Given where I work, I have seen more than my fair share.  But there was a lull for a good while, but it's resurging.  Not bad, 'bad cold' and all, but definitely back.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 28, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Given where I work, I have seen more than my fair share.  But there was a lull for a good while, but it's resurging.  Not bad, 'bad cold' and all, but definitely back.



The amount of folks calling 911/us for an ER visit is dumb. All nonsense, minor complaints. You would think by now, common sense would kick in. No, folks are needy, self absorbed with a sore throat or sneeze, demanding 911 to ER visit. 

Then, they nag and bitch when I give phone report to triage RN, I tell the RN, "triage appropriate", 10 hour wait.

Then the person bitches for the wait when we are bringing in a level 1 trauma or STEMI, "wait, I'm next!".

Um, no.


----------



## Chopstick (Jun 28, 2022)

Everyone (except me) is coming down with the 'rona here.  I have the golden "get out of endless jab" pass due to my rare clotting issue in addition to the odd happenstance that my particular division was exempt from the mandates.  Literally everyone around me has been boosted upteen times and yet here we are.  I'm the one that has never been ill (thank God) nor have I ever tested positive.  It sort of seems the more boosters on board the more those folks are getting Covid over and over again.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 28, 2022)

Chopstick said:


> Everyone (except me) is coming down with the 'rona here.  I have the golden "get out of endless jab" pass due to my rare clotting issue in addition to the odd happenstance that my particular division was exempt from the mandates.  Literally everyone around me has been boosted upteen times and yet here we are.  I'm the one that has never been ill (thank God) nor have I ever tested positive.  It sort of seems the more boosters on board the more those folks are getting Covid over and over again.



I have the first 2 Phizer jabs, got the plague second time this past Jan, it was a cold, refused jabs through Township I work, since I just had rona, I was exempt, seems, they don't give a fuck now, since, the Township Manager's are blowing the dick of gay pride month and Juneteenth, the plague has died off except for the emails conveying that, if you're sick, stay home, no fucking shit.

As I said before, OG plague, shots, transformer plague, all the time with masks, careful, still got sick. I refuse boosters, I refuse masks, I'll do me. It's virtue signaling. It's political theater.


----------



## RackMaster (Jun 29, 2022)

Speaking of fear mongering, pushing another "booster" before the fall.  At risk group's, elderly and immune compromised are already up to 4 and 5 doses.   I think they are start 6 shortly.  I had 3, mixed between Moderna and AstraZeneca; still got the Rona sniffles.  Recovery from the shots was worse.  Unless they start using the same methodology of flu shots and push it out to a year, with greater effectiveness.  I'm not taking another shot.  Explains why they are already changing the definition of fully vaccinated, to "up to date"; instead of a specific number of doses. 






COVID-19: Canada to update its ‘fully-vaccinated’ definition - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 29, 2022)

My daughter had to receive the vaccine in order to return to in-person middle school.  She is quite athletic and, of course, young.  She's a dancer.  She got selected for a special summer dance intensive in NY.  After we paid and registered, we were informed that she has to be boosted to attend.

Why?

The shots don't keep people from getting sick.  She is literally in the lowest risk category (young, fit, healthy).  Each time she gets jabbed, she runs the risk of a negative side effect.  Now she's faced with the dilemma of taking a vaccine of unknown efficacy, or not going to this thing she's trained for all year.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 29, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> My daughter had to receive the vaccine in order to return to in-person middle school.  She is quite athletic and, of course, young.  She's a dancer.  She got selected for a special summer dance intensive in NY.  After we paid and registered, we were informed that she has to be boosted to attend.
> 
> Why?
> 
> The shots don't keep people from getting sick.  She is literally in the lowest risk category (young, fit, healthy).  Each time she gets jabbed, she runs the risk of a negative side effect.  Now she's faced with the dilemma of taking a vaccine of unknown efficacy, or not going to this thing she's trained for all year.



Remember when our lord and savior Fauci said, vaccines would prevent illness? Masks would prevent illness? 

Then, they doubled down. Yeah, "science".
Prepridge Farms remembers.

Crock of shit, as you know, sir.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 29, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Remember when our lord and savior Fauci said, vaccines would prevent illness? Masks would prevent illness?
> 
> Then, they doubled down. Yeah, "science".
> Prepridge Farms remembers.
> ...



I don't remember that, because it seems to have never been said.

Talking heads on CNN and MSNBC said that, white house staff said that, but every official statement from a medical professional I ever heard or aw was always in terms of "can help" or "may prevent serious" or "highly effective".

Maybe you can find a clip or statement and enlighten me; perhaps I missed it.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 29, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I don't remember that, because it seems to have never been said.
> 
> Talking heads on CNN and MSNBC said that, white house staff said that, but every official statement from a medical professional I ever heard or aw was always in terms of "can help" or "may prevent serious" or "highly effective".
> 
> Maybe you can find a clip or statement and enlighten me; perhaps I missed it.



I dont think a video is needed. If youre saying Fauci never said masks wont help prevent the spread of covid, I dont know where you were.


----------



## Muppet (Jun 29, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> I don't remember that, because it seems to have never been said.
> 
> Talking heads on CNN and MSNBC said that, white house staff said that, but every official statement from a medical professional I ever heard or aw was always in terms of "can help" or "may prevent serious" or "highly effective".
> 
> Maybe you can find a clip or statement and enlighten me; perhaps I missed it.







Plus: I'm a paramedic. I had OG plague. Natural immunity should occur. Got jabbed. Should be ok. Got plague again this past Jan. Dozens upon dozens of co-workers and nurse friends, same.

Our lord and savior clearly said it in the video: " If you're vaccinated, you're safe, if you're not, you're in danger". His words.

That changed to...

It'll keep you out of the ICU.

I can tell you from direct experience, not true either. Prior infection, triple jabbed, re-infection, ICU, a good amount including a doc I know.

Propaganda.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 29, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Plus: I'm a paramedic. I had OG plague. Natural immunity should occur. Got jabbed. Should be ok. Got plague again this past Jan. Dozens upon dozens of co-workers and nurse friends, same.
> 
> Our lord and savior clearly said it in the video: " If you're vaccinated, you're safe, if you're not, you're in danger". His words.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the vid. Dude definitely stuck his foot in his mouth on the talk show circuit.

Reminds me of a video I saw about a month back with Paul Offit. He's one of the researchers who helped develop the rotavirus vaccine and serves(d) one the FDA vaccine committee.

He was highly critical of any and all medical info coming out of the White House, because that inherently made it political. He wanted everything to just be matter-of-fact weekly releases from the CDC.

He also had a bit about boosters, saying it seemed from his reading of the data that a 3 dose panel would work well for most people to prevent serious infection, and a 4 dose for high risk. He didn't see a need to treat it like a flu vaccine based on current data


----------



## Muppet (Jun 29, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Thanks for the vid. Dude definitely stuck his foot in his mouth on the talk show circuit.
> 
> Reminds me of a video I saw about a month back with Paul Offit. He's one of the researchers who helped develop the rotavirus vaccine and serves(d) one the FDA vaccine committee.
> 
> ...


 And it's a wonder why folks are questioning "the science". You see my point?


----------



## Muppet (Jun 30, 2022)

Plus, if, the CDC actually put info out there, weekly, even if the disclaimer was, things change, this is a novel virus, folks would have listened.

Hell, I worked the entire plague thus far. The info we are STILL receiving is questionable, changes day to day, the CDC does not help, NIH is political.

Hell squared, once I had plague the second time, it was around the time the municipality I work for were essentially forcing its employees to get the shots by a certain date. I was double jabbed, figured, I needed to make a decision on the booster, then, a bunch of us medic and cops got sick. 

Then, we were told, natural immunity, which was never discussed via CDC or NIH, the booster was not necessary. 

Now, there's no talk of it. We are just waiting till gay pride 🏳️‍🌈 month and Juneteenth is done for our liberal Township Manager's to float back to vaccines, unless one of our cops ventilates some asshole in the projects. Lol. (tongue and cheek).


----------



## Muppet (Jun 30, 2022)

Wow, I just re-read my post above. Sounds harsh. Not changing it though. It's true. This pandemic was made political with large snipets of virtue signaling and "we are all in this together" bullshit, until our elected officials displayed that they were above us, dining out when we were on lock down, haircuts when we were locked down.

Add, a knee on the neck of a subject in custody (I'll refrain from diaglogue on that, but I'll say it was wrong), the country protests and riots (mostly peaceful) while citizens protesting the lock downs were called murderers and plague rats.

#worstpandemicever


----------



## Muppet (Jun 30, 2022)




----------



## RackMaster (Jun 30, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Thanks for the vid. Dude definitely stuck his foot in his mouth on the talk show circuit.
> 
> Reminds me of a video I saw about a month back with Paul Offit. He's one of the researchers who helped develop the rotavirus vaccine and serves(d) one the FDA vaccine committee.
> 
> ...



Canada is already laying the ground work for 4th dose before the fall.  I guarantee you, it's only a matter of time before the CDC and White House starts.  Think of all those doses paid for and haven't been delivered due to people not believing the garbage.  Canada alone bought over 400 million doses for a population of 38 million. Not including any recent purchases, last year the US had already purchased 750 million doses for 332 million American's.  

That's a lot of wasted tax dollar's and I bet the companies want their contracts fulfilled; even of the product is junk and not even remotely effective as it was intended.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 1, 2022)

So, evidently firing troopers for not getting the jab simply isn't enough for Massachusetts:
Tyrannical Mass State Police head revokes firearms permits of troopers fired for not submitting to jabs

This could easily be tied in to the tyranny conversation in the gun control thread as well.  There are no lines that some won't cross.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 1, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> So, evidently firing troopers for not getting the jab simply isn't enough for Massachusetts:
> Tyrannical Mass State Police head revokes firearms permits of troopers fired for not submitting to jabs
> 
> This could easily be tied in to the tyranny conversation in the gun control thread as well.  There are no lines that some won't cross.



Gonna disagree on this, not on the basis of the MA license to carry requirements (which are dumb, but a sperate convo) but the idea (presented by the article) that fired troopers somehow have more "rights" that they're entitled to.

That's not the case.  For example, I'm a Federal LEO (for the BOP). I'm authorized under the LEOSA (LEO Safety Act) to concealed carry in all 50 states without permit, despite local laws.  I can do this as long as I'm an LEO and once I retire/leave a LEO agency after 10 years of service.

My ability to do this is based on being in "good standing" though. If I get fired/resign my post for fighting local PD at a local bar's karaoke night, I'll lose my authority under the LEOSA. (That fight example is based on an actual situation with staff here).

This is from the State Department page, so it says "federal", but it's also applicable to state employment.



> Individuals are deemed to have retired or separated from service in “good standing” unless, at the time of their separation:
> 
> *There was a determination made or action initiated to remove, or proposal to remove, the employee from Federal employment*;
> The employee’s security clearance was revoked, or a proposal to revoke the clearance had been initiated or issued, based on allegiance to a foreign entity;
> ...



The bolded areas are the ones that apply here.

The officers were fired. The don't get special LEO privileges, because they aren't "qualified separated" officers.

Edit to add: I'm just now seeing that the article was written by a retired police chief. So his statement that 



> "It isn’t clear where the Commonwealth gets the authority to do that, yet here we are."



either means he knows less about the LEOSA than we learn literally the first week on the job, or he's lying.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 1, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Gonna disagree on this, not on the basis of the MA license to carry requirements (which are dumb, but a sperate convo) but the idea (presented by the article) that fired troopers somehow have more "rights" that they're entitled to.
> 
> That's not the case.  For example, I'm a Federal LEO (for the BOP). I'm authorized under the LEOSA (LEO Safety Act) to concealed carry in all 50 states without permit, despite local laws.  I can do this as long as I'm an LEO and once I retire/leave a LEO agency after 10 years of service.
> 
> ...


They weren't fired for a bar fight or any other legal malfeasance. They were fired because they declined to get a shot that's widely proven to be ineffective in preventing contagion.  It's absurd.

The fact there are still people out there continuing to push this nonsense (take the jab or lose your job) is really sad.  It's a complete power play; not rooted in any logic or science.  Firing them wasn't enough, so they're going to place some additional hurdles out there as well.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 1, 2022)

@Cookie_ , your staunch contrarian nature is truly something to behold. 

I commend your resolve.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 1, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> They weren't fired for a bar fight or any other legal malfeasance. They were fired because they declined to get a shot that's widely proven to be ineffective in preventing contagion.  It's absurd.
> 
> The fact there are still people out there continuing to push this nonsense (take the jab or lose your job) is really sad.  It's a complete power play; not rooted in any logic or science.  Firing them wasn't enough, so they're going to place some additional hurdles out there as well.


Concur.

The military did the same thing the medical and airline communities did:  fire a bunch of people over a vaccine that doesn't work, and now they're facing an exacerbated labor shortage.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 1, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> They weren't fired for a bar fight or any other legal malfeasance. They were fired because they declined to get a shot that's widely proven to be ineffective in preventing contagion.  It's absurd.
> 
> The fact there are still people out there continuing to push this nonsense (take the jab or lose your job) is really sad.  It's a complete power play; not rooted in any logic or science.  *Firing them wasn't enough, so they're going to place some additional hurdles out there as well.*



I used the fight as just an example, but that's besides the point. There are no "additional hurdles" being place on them. 

They were fired; full stop. Doesn't matter if they got a DUI, kept showing up to work late, or refused the vaccine. If they were legally fired, they don't get to keep LEO benefits.

Don't make them more equal animals than they are.

Again, we can talk about whether it's "Fair or proper" for them to get fired for COVID vax, but nothing special is occurring to them that does not happen to any other fired LEO.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 2, 2022)

Fucking damnit, it finally got me.


----------



## Chopstick (Jul 2, 2022)

Regarding the termination of LEOs.  The City of Pittsburgh has been literally hemorrhaging officers the last few years and the pandemic further decimated the ranks due to the flurry of retirements.  You would think the City would be stepping up recruitment and making efforts to keep the officers they still have.  But... nope.  The other day they sent letters to officers threatening terminations after the City stopped negotiating with the police union.  It is my understanding from folks in the know that the "40 %" (the number of officers in question) requesting exemptions  had their resignation papers in order.  With the crime rate in the City skyrocketing (multiple shootings daily) I guess someone in the current Admin realized this was not a good time to further gut the ranks?  SMH
Disciplinary action for unvaccinated Pittsburgh police officers ‘temporarily put on hold’



> Disciplinary action for Pittsburgh police officers that did not get vaccinated against COVID-19 has been temporarily put on hold, according to a memo sent to officers.  Monday, Target 11 learned the City of Pittsburgh had begun sending out disciplinary letters to police officers. In the letters, officers were told that their claim for a religious exemption to the COVID-19 vaccine was denied, and their employment would be terminated if they weren’t vaccinated by August.  Tonight, Target 11 received a copy of the memo sent to officers by deputy chief Thomas Stangrecki.
> Stangrecki’s statement said:
> 
> _“On or about June 17, 2022, the Department of Human Services & Civil Service mailed letters to City employees who requested a religious accommodation in order to be exempt from the City of Pittsburgh’s mandated COVID-19 vaccination policy and which denied their request. The letters further informed the employees that they would be subject to progressive discipline if they failed to receive vaccination. I have confirmed that any discipline for affected members of the FOP and AFSCME unions, and sworn non-union PBP members, has been temporarily put on hold.”_


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 2, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Fucking damnit, it finally got me.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 39791




It’s going to get everyone eventually brother, that’s one of the many reasons everyone needs to stop worrying about it.  

Best wishes for a mild car and a speedy recovery.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 2, 2022)

So, I'm five days post positive test. 

Day -1: started feeling like shit on the plan, but thought that was because I smashed a whole bag of Reeves trail mix.

Day 0: packing up house, lots of Phoenix sun. Achy as fuck. Took test, popped fast. Showered and then shivered in bed. Did not have a fever.

Day 1: packing, lots of sun, felt achy, but not as bad. Drove to El Paso, very energy sapping.

Day 2: least amount of achyness. Drove to Ft Worth. Still no fever. 

Day 3: unpacked everything in the new apartment. Packed everything up from my homie's house, dropped it off at the apartment. 

Day 4: pretty good, but had some diarrhea.

Day 5: went on a hike and got a sweat on. Otherwise feel pretty good.

For me this was like a weak flu or bad cold. 

Background: Broken down 33 yr old horse cavalryman. 5-9, 215#. Generally eat a lot of veggies and take my vitamins. Also had two shots of J&J. Think the first shot of J&J was worse, except this lasted longer.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 2, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, I'm five days post positive test.
> 
> Day -1: started feeling like shit on the plan, but thought that was because I smashed a whole bag of Reeves trail mix.
> 
> ...


Another instance of the vaccine that was supposed to keep us from getting COVID, not keeping us from getting COVID.

"But it kept his symptoms from being much worse!"  that's entirely possible, but impossible to prove.  And I remain unapologetically skeptical.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 2, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Another instance of the vaccine that was supposed to keep us from getting COVID, not keeping us from getting COVID.
> 
> "But it kept his symptoms from being much worse!"  that's entirely possible, but impossible to prove.  And I remain unapologetically skeptical.



Like many of us, skeptical. Even us in the medical field.


----------



## AWP (Jul 2, 2022)

Had I not lived through them, I wouldn’t believe the stories from the spring of 2020 to the present.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 2, 2022)

AWP said:


> Had I not lived through them, I wouldn’t believe the stories from the spring of 2020 to the present.



Exactly. We really learned who the boot kissing lemmings are. I recall my first plague pt, a 20 male from residential living, legit sick. Leaving ER, heard police radio talking about Rita's water ice. Right before lock downs, folks were still out. Some cunt Karen called 911 for cops, folks apparently were not socially distancing.

The cops response to dispatch? "Clear it county, I'm not doing that job, not my problem".


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 4, 2022)

Day 3 - Other than this sore throat, it’s a  cold with very light body ache. Oxygen levels are staying in the mid 90’s, (I bought one of those finger thingys)  Stuffy nose, low grade fever.  Staying ahead of symptoms as best I can with revolving cocktail of Sudafed, Tylenol, and Advil. Supplementing with EmerginC and ColdEze.  Girl friend is a freaking maniac rockstar.  She gave up her holiday weekend with friends and instead spent the better part of Sat/Sun cooking for me.  Homemake chicken noodle soup, potato soup, tupperware bowls full of fresh cut fruit, on and on.  Plus she introduced me to cucumber infused water…good stuff!

I’d say I almost felt normal if not for the sore throat.  Cannot get ahead of the pain.  I’ve been gargling a bit with salt water and then following up with a tablespoon of honey, but damn…

I have 4 Oxy left from my kidney-stone last year…I keep staring at the fucking bottle…seems a bit overkill for a sore throat though.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 4, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Day 3 - Other than this sore throat, it’s a  cold with very light body ache. Oxygen levels are staying in the mid 90’s, (I bought one of those finger thingys)  Stuffy nose, low grade fever.  Staying ahead of symptoms as best I can with revolving cocktail of Sudafed, Tylenol, and Advil. Supplementing with EmerginC and ColdEze.  Girl friend is a freaking maniac rockstar.  She gave up her holiday weekend with friends and instead spent the better part of Sat/Sun cooking for me.  Homemake chicken noodle soup, potato soup, tupperware bowls full of fresh cut fruit, on and on.  Plus she introduced me to cucumber infused water…good stuff!
> 
> I’d say I almost felt normal if not for the sore throat.  Cannot get ahead of the pain.  I’ve been gargling a bit with salt water and then following up with a tablespoon of honey, but damn…
> 
> I have 4 Oxy left from my kidney-stone last year…I keep staring at the fucking bottle…seems a bit overkill for a sore throat though.



Good to hear you're doing better. Stay away from the Oxys. It only numbs the brain a short time and it's back again. You're doing what is needed.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 4, 2022)

I still have a runny nose.


----------



## SpitfireV (Jul 4, 2022)

Tip those oxys down the shitter they're not worth having in your house IMO.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 4, 2022)

Pop the pills, it will give you some relief and get some rest. There is a reason you kept them this long and it was not to throw them down the toilet. Better living through modern chemistry


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 4, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Day 3 - Other than this sore throat, it’s a  cold with very light body ache. Oxygen levels are staying in the mid 90’s, (I bought one of those finger thingys)  Stuffy nose, low grade fever.  Staying ahead of symptoms as best I can with revolving cocktail of Sudafed, Tylenol, and Advil. Supplementing with EmerginC and ColdEze.  Girl friend is a freaking maniac rockstar.  She gave up her holiday weekend with friends and instead spent the better part of Sat/Sun cooking for me.  Homemake chicken noodle soup, potato soup, tupperware bowls full of fresh cut fruit, on and on.  Plus she introduced me to cucumber infused water…good stuff!
> 
> I’d say I almost felt normal if not for the sore throat.  Cannot get ahead of the pain.  I’ve been gargling a bit with salt water and then following up with a tablespoon of honey, but damn…
> 
> I have 4 Oxy left from my kidney-stone last year…I keep staring at the fucking bottle…seems a bit overkill for a sore throat though.



Tip them down the sink man. You don’t need Oxys for a sore throat. In the words of me “stop being a bitch”


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 6, 2022)

Fuck off.

"‘We will never be fully vaccinated against COVID’: Canadians may be required to get booster shot every 9 months – Fortune" ‘We will never be fully vaccinated against COVID’: Canadians may be required to get booster shot every 9 months – Fortune


----------



## Muppet (Jul 6, 2022)

Shows how fucking twisted this thing is.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 6, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> I still have a runny nose.



Tell @Ooh-Rah to sell you his oxys


----------



## Muppet (Jul 6, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Tell @Ooh-Rah to sell you his oxys



Up here in Philly, they go for 10 bucks a pop. Lol.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 10, 2022)

Whelp, glad I never got a Moderna or Pfizer shot.  Looks pretty worthless. 

COVID Boosters Might Be Less Than 20% Effective After a Few Months: Study


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 10, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Whelp, glad I never got a Moderna or Pfizer shot.  Looks pretty worthless.
> 
> COVID Boosters Might Be Less Than 20% Effective After a Few Months: Study


^more like 0% immediately after.

From the article:  



> According to the CDC, less than a third of Americans have had a first booster dose at any point since they became available, and only about 5% of Americans have had a second booster dose.



...because that shit.  does not.  work.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 10, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> ^more like 0% immediately after.
> 
> From the article:
> 
> ...



But, but, but, I thought papi Fauci, our lord and savior said they did!


----------



## AWP (Jul 10, 2022)

Muppet said:


> But, but, but, I thought papi Fauci, our lord and savior said they did!



Trust the science, bitch.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 10, 2022)

AWP said:


> Trust the science, bitch.



My local meteorologist quoted science as why he couldn't predict the severe storms we had...science.

🙄🤣🤤😂


----------



## AWP (Jul 11, 2022)

I've fought a sinus infection now for about 2 months. 1 course of abx barely made a dent, so I go back to the doc's. 

At check-in, and I know those folks aren't medical anything, the lady says "oh, you're here for a sinus infection, congestion, blah, blah." Not 2 minutes later she asks  if I have any COVID symptoms like...congestion, runny nose, sore throat...."

Um, what?

"No, ma'am."

"You're all checked in."

Fucking hell, whatever. The MA calls me back to the exam room. "What are we seeing you for?" Sinus infection for 8 weeks, congestion, runny nose, sore throat, cough from the drainage. "Okay. Do you have any COVID symptoms such as..."






"No, ma'am."


----------



## Gunz (Jul 11, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Whelp, glad I never got a Moderna or Pfizer shot.  Looks pretty worthless.
> 
> COVID Boosters Might Be Less Than 20% Effective After a Few Months: Study



Well obviously we need to get a booster every two months. It’s that simple.🙄


----------



## Muppet (Jul 11, 2022)

AWP said:


> I've fought a sinus infection now for about 2 months. 1 course of abx barely made a dent, so I go back to the doc's.
> 
> At check-in, and I know those folks aren't medical anything, the lady says "oh, you're here for a sinus infection, congestion, blah, blah." Not 2 minutes later she asks  if I have any COVID symptoms like...congestion, runny nose, sore throat...."
> 
> ...



Fucking retarded, ain't it. Maria's dad is in hospital. Colon infection, SIRs. He's doing better.

At hospital now. In lobby, they use tongs to pass out fresh masks, security, not medical professional, asks if we have plague symptoms or been around anyone with it (me, work), um, no.

It's like fucking checkpoint Charlie at the Berlin wall, showing ID to go to room 114. This ain't ever going away.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 11, 2022)

Not to mention the "gun free zone" and our security will be provided by older men and hood rats, all unarmed. No thanks, I'll keep mine on me.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 11, 2022)

I'm wearing my mask. I'm helping. I wear my mask for you, you wear your mask for me. We're all in this together ❤️!


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 11, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I'm wearing my mask. I'm helping. I wear my mask for you, you wear your mask for me. We're all in this together ❤️!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not... it's just as effective that way as it is any other way of wearing it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 11, 2022)

It was a week ago Saturday I tested positive. Now just eight days later I’ve tested negative, and I feel pretty close to 100%. No lingering weaknesses, and no brain fog. At least no more than normal!

Compared to many, I consider myself one of the lucky ones.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 12, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> It was a week ago Saturday I tested positive. Now just eight days later I’ve tested negative, and I feel pretty close to 100%. No lingering weaknesses, and no brain fog. At least no more than normal!
> 
> Compared to many, I consider myself one of the lucky ones.



Congrats. Now, your natural immunity will last, um, who knows, it was 6 months, now, I don't know.


----------



## AWP (Jul 12, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Congrats. Now, your natural immunity will last, um, who knows, it was 6 months, now, I don't know.



My cousin's girlfriend's mom once gloryholed a biochemist who said the booster only has a .000000001% chance of succeeding. Some guy on reddit said if you don't receive 1 COVID booster per week then the sun will kill you as if you were a vampire.

I've crunched the data and concluded that people suck, with or without a booster.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 15, 2022)

Delete the CDC:

Residents of 10 Arizona counties should be wearing face masks indoors, CDC says


----------



## Muppet (Jul 15, 2022)

Oh, fucking blow my short Irish Jew Johnson, CDC. These cock suckers will keep it going forever. Variants are expected. Illnesses are expected. Each time a variant comes out, the CDC sends fear messages out, big G and media run with it, as we know. The panic Mary's lap it up like the money shot, including my own in laws. 

2 week to slow the curve, 2 and a half years later. Vaccines were supposed to prevent, masks were saving lives, now, vaccines prevent hospitalization, except, it don't in some, masks don't work.

"Science" changes I'm told. So does patience of folks that did the right thing and saw the goal post moved based on politics. Open the state protests were bad. Marching for George Floyd was heroic.

Fuck it all


----------



## AWP (Jul 15, 2022)

Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?



I haven’t. Nor has my wife.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jul 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I haven’t. Nor has my wife.



Honest question.  How do you know?

1] You've never had the symptoms
or
2] You haven't tested positive

Thanks!

Edit - For more professional response.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 15, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?



I believe my wife had it right after me in January (my second plague rat experience), though, she never tested. Same s/sx I had.

We just found out, her aunts husband has the plague. Her aunt is a panic Nancy, I joked with her that if she lost her Vax card, the government would arrest her, she was like "oh Dios mio!!!", I died laughing.

She's pissed off at papi (her husband) for getting plague. Maria was like, Jesus Tia, it's everywhere! If Sylvia gets sick, she'll need Xanax. Lmfao.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 15, 2022)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Honest question.  How do you know?
> 
> 1] You've never had the symptoms
> or
> ...



Both. Since Covid began I have not been sick a single time. I felt weird once and got tested, and have prophylactically tested numerous times. I personally will likely continue to wear a mask due to this. Not catching the flu every other year has been pretty nice. 

I have had solid exposures and in all but one case had a fit tested N95 on. The one a patient literally coughed in my non n95 face on induction, and then I intubated her. Found out afterwards she was positive. For that one I isolated from my wife and baby, and was sure I’d get it. Shit my preceptor got it and I’m the one who got coughed on. I had just had my booster though a week before, and that seemed to be the major difference.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Both. Since Covid began I have not been sick a single time. I felt weird once and got tested, and have prophylactically tested numerous times. I personally will likely continue to wear a mask due to this. Not catching the flu every other year has been pretty nice.
> 
> I have had solid exposures and in all but one case had a fit tested N95 on. The one a patient literally coughed in my non n95 face on induction, and then I intubated her. Found out afterwards she was positive. For that one I isolated from my wife and baby, and was sure I’d get it. Shit my preceptor got it and I’m the one who got coughed on. I had just had my booster though a week before, and that seemed to be the major difference.


So you don't know.

The vast majority of cases are asymptomatic, so generally you're only testing yourself if you think you're sick or your job needs you to test. (as of today) I've only had two tests in two years, both at home.  Even though I managed testing results for a 700 person org, I never tested because I didn't have to go a game site in 2021 until our final match. And at that point we had ended testing because we had hit our vaccine threshold for the season. I didn't take a test until Jan 2022. The last test I took was in June which was positive.

But generally the amount of asymptomatic people still going and getting tests done is idiotic. The numbers make no sense because 99% of those people you couldn't tell were even having a bad day.

My Fiancee was exposed while sitting in her esthetician's office, they were in there 90 minutes.  No masks, small room, you get the idea. She tests at peak viral load time, negative. Even though her esthetician was positive AF.  This disease makes no sense.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 17, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?


I haven't.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 17, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> View attachment 39959




Yeah, that whole "I'm essential" or "Frontline hero" bullshit gets/got on my nerves. The virtue signaling nurses bitching about masks, crying over plague pts in the hospital and dancing was especially retarded.

I even had nurse friends that bought into the clear violations of rights, sucking the dick for additional violations by state governments, even becoming hateful to me and others like because we did not lap it up like a hooked in an alleyway. 

Pure fucking retardism. 

We all in this together.....


----------



## Muppet (Jul 17, 2022)

Oh, I saw some nursing home aid wearing a Hoodia, name of nursing home on there, on the back of shirt, "I'm essential". Fucking cunt nerd. 

Don't get me wrong, nursing home staff got fucked by state governments when they were forced to accept plague pts when these places were obviously not equipped for it.

Hell, I know a doc, one I respect immensely tell Facebook, it was his and those like him, faults for nursing home admissions with plagues.

In the Philly region, we had dozens of surge centers manned by DMATS and NG med staff. They were barely used. Why?

Doc says optics. Putting granny with covid in an Army cot looks bad.

Instead, overwhelm the nursing homes. For 6 months in the beginning, I lost count how many dying or dead elderly I had from rona, all in nursing homes.

What a fucking joke.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 17, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Yeah, that whole "I'm essential" or "Frontline hero" bullshit gets/got on my nerves. The virtue signaling nurses bitching about masks, crying over plague pts in the hospital and dancing was especially retarded.
> 
> I even had nurse friends that bought into the clear violations of rights, sucking the dick for additional violations by state governments, even becoming hateful to me and others like because we did not lap it up like a hooked in an alleyway.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you had to go through that bullshit.



Muppet said:


> Oh, I saw some nursing home aid wearing a Hoodia, name of nursing home on there, on the back of shirt, "I'm essential". Fucking cunt nerd.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, nursing home staff got fucked by state governments when they were forced to accept plague pts when these places were obviously not equipped for it.
> 
> ...


Ditto.

What NY did to the people in the nursing home should be considered a crime and the people behind that should be hanged. We all know the reason those resources weren't used, our elderly were sacrificed for corrupt politicians beholden to China.

Same thing could be said of the garbage human beings that politicized/demonized hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and even limited access to antibodies and other therapeutic treatments.

China, our own citizen lemmings, the MSM, and our corrupt political class have dealt us a grievous blow. I laugh that places like India and Africa handled this crisis in a better fashion.


----------



## AWP (Jul 17, 2022)

2 weeks to flatten the curve!


----------



## Dame (Jul 17, 2022)

Third time for me. Keeps getting shorter. First time I lost taste though. Everything was burned marshmallows.


----------



## CQB (Jul 18, 2022)

Nope, though at work in a multi storey building we get advice & updates from HR of 1 or 2 per week with it.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 18, 2022)

Serious question: Who on this board has NOT had the Clap?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 18, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Serious question: Who on this board has NOT had the Clap?



Does it help if we have a clinic punch card?


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?


I'm 100% never-COVID....


SpongeBob*24 said:


> Honest question.  How do you know?
> 
> 1] You've never had the symptoms
> or
> ...


...And *THIS* is exactly why. I don't run to med every time I have a headache to get an MRI. I don't go to the emergency room for every tummy ache. Most importantly, I refuse to take a non-clinically indicated test providing a 20% false positivity rate in the absence of reason for the test.

Testing without symptoms is virtue signaling or an overstep of a medical director forcing you to take a procedure you don't want; both are fucking dumb. 

*If you internalized that last sentence, please, look internally. Your problem doesn't rest with me.*


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 18, 2022)

I posted previously that my daughter's summer dance camp required proof of vaccinations **and** booster.
What I don't think I included in that post (because I found out later)  they didn't tell us is that parents who were coming to drop off their children **also** had to show a negative COVID test just to drop off and inprocess their kids.  The kids have to have a negative test (on top of proof of vaccination and boost) too.

1) this is stupid
2) the home tests are notoriously unreliable
3) there's nothing to keep anyone from faking the test, or from using someone else's test
4) if I can show you a vax card, and I'm masked up, WTF do I need to show you a negative COVID test on top of all of that?
5) ^this is stupid

My wife did the tests the night before and took our daughter to the camp.  When she got there, she got hassled about the test.  "Oh you took it last night?  It needed to be today."  Fortunately someone with more common sense told her it was fine and my daughter got inprocessed.

Now, according to my daughter the camp was absolutely fabulous.  I went to the recital; the kids were really talented.

I didn't think about it until we were just outside the auditorium, but I didn't bring a mask to the recital.  Unless I'm going to the hospital, I just don't really think about masks anymore.  There were no signs saying we had to have one, and my oldest daughter and I got it with no hassles (wife had to work).  About 10-20% of the audience was masked up.  And I'm fine with that--do what you need to do to feel like you're protecting yourself and your family.  3-4 of the students also wore masks during their performances.  I felt bad for them.

So much of the COVID stuff right now is purely performative.  In inflicts additional cost, stress, and hassle on folks who already have enough of that in their lives.  Maybe after the mid-terms we can stop pretending like we care...


----------



## Muppet (Jul 18, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I'm 100% never-COVID....
> 
> ...And *THIS* is exactly why. I don't run to med every time I have a headache to get an MRI. I don't go to the emergency room for every tummy ache. Most importantly, I refuse to take a non-clinically indicated test providing a 20% false positivity rate in the absence of reason for the test.
> 
> ...



You...... complete me


----------



## Muppet (Jul 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I posted previously that my daughter's summer dance camp required proof of vaccinations **and** booster.
> What I don't think I included in that post (because I found out later)  they didn't tell us is that parents who were coming to drop off their children **also** had to show a negative COVID test just to drop off and inprocess their kids.  The kids have to have a negative test (on top of proof of vaccination and boost) too.
> 
> 1) this is stupid
> ...



You too, sir. 

It's all show.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 18, 2022)

My middle son (27) refused to get vaxxed. His employer--an MLB team--then issued a directive that all employees must get vaxxed..._or else_. So he went down to the local Walgreens (or CVS) and told the guy he didn't want to get vaxxed but needed a vax card showing he'd gotten the jabs. The guy said "Sure, dude" and signed him off as vaxxed. No problem, no questions.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 18, 2022)

Gunz said:


> My middle son (27) refused to get vaxxed. His employer--an MLB team--then issued a directive that all employees must get vaxxed..._or else_. So he went down to the local Walgreens (or CVS) and told the guy he didn't want to get vaxxed but needed a vax card showing he'd gotten the jabs. The guy said "Sure, dude" and signed him off as vaxxed. No problem, no questions.


I am DEFINITELY NOT CONDONING SUCH BEHAVIOR. 

I am also not condoning behavior of some people going to a Walgreens (instead of their primary DoD care provider) and paying them for a flu shot, but not actually getting the shot, and then turning that paperwork in to have it reflected on their paperwork. I have heard completely and totally unsubstantiated rumors of some people doing this for years. 

_"Not that it's happening. And not that I condone it. Just, you know, hypothetically, there are things that are happening, and when they happen, to those that happen to think that those things shouldn't happen, they might just happen to find a way, to you know, get around it."_ - Kamala Harris, VPOTUS.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 18, 2022)

In related news...

Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate

Thanks to this little hiccup in kicking out Operators with 18-19.5 years of service, looks like 3 of my close friends are going to be able to make it to 20 and retire.

And no, that's not hyperbole or an exaggeration.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 18, 2022)

Gunz said:


> My middle son (27) refused to get vaxxed. His employer--an MLB team--then issued a directive that all employees must get vaxxed..._or else_. So he went down to the local Walgreens (or CVS) and told the guy he didn't want to get vaxxed but needed a vax card showing he'd gotten the jabs. The guy said "Sure, dude" and signed him off as vaxxed. No problem, no questions.



This is some nonsense since MLBPA Union members don't need to get vaxxed.



amlove21 said:


> In related news...
> 
> Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate
> 
> ...



The only person that needs all the jabs is the person who can't even speak about anything without ending up in dementia land...err I think that's the POTUS. And Lloyd is a dumb stooge for enforcing these idiotic policies.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 18, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> In related news...
> 
> Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate
> 
> ...



I know of a few Operators up here that turned in their ID a week before the government lifted the mandate for other federal employee's, including defence department civilians.  It's still being reviewed for those in uniform.  Kind of ironic during a time that they  are relaxing appearance standards to recruit more.

Anecdotally, I have never seen so many Senior NCO's opt for early retirement or finally get some nagging, career ending, medical issues looked at.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jul 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?



I have not.


----------



## Arf (Jul 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?


I’ve never tested positive but I’ve gotten so sick on two occasions that I thought I was going to have to go to the veterinarian and have them put me down.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 18, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Yeah, that whole "I'm essential" or "Frontline hero" bullshit gets/got on my nerves. The virtue signaling nurses bitching about masks, crying over plague pts in the hospital and dancing was especially retarded.


----------



## Chopstick (Jul 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> Serious question: who on this board has NOT had COVID?


I have not had COVID.


----------



## Dame (Jul 18, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I'm 100% never-COVID....
> 
> ...And *THIS* is exactly why. I don't run to med every time I have a headache to get an MRI. I don't go to the emergency room for every tummy ache. Most importantly, I refuse to take a non-clinically indicated test providing a 20% false positivity rate in the absence of reason for the test.
> 
> ...


Oooohhh, well if we have to have a positive test result then 0 times.



amlove21 said:


> In related news...
> 
> Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate
> 
> ...


So what about the guy who was just discharged last week? Any hope for him? I hate seeing the coke-heads get a pay loss and some Sergeant get booted and lose his benefits. Would love to think he can stop packing now.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I posted previously that my daughter's summer dance camp required proof of vaccinations **and** booster.
> What I don't think I included in that post (because I found out later)  they didn't tell us is that parents who were coming to drop off their children **also** had to show a negative COVID test just to drop off and inprocess their kids.  The kids have to have a negative test (on top of proof of vaccination and boost) too.
> 
> 1) this is stupid
> ...


Sir,

May I please ask why you have not gone to the rally point with your family and gotten in the retrieval boat and exfilled to Texas? The people's republic of New York can get effed. What's crazy is how culturally different my friends down in the City are. They just do what the city tells them.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 18, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Sir,
> 
> May I please ask *why you have not gone to the rally point with your fam*ily and gotten in the retrieval boat and exfilled to Texas? The people's republic of New York can get effed. What's crazy is how culturally different my friends down in the City are. They just do what the city tells them.


...I really like working at West Point.  That's literally the only reason I'm in New York.


----------



## Marine0311 (Jul 18, 2022)

I try to be open minded about all of this for example I take grappling classes 3x a week and I work cleaning a school ans I have never had covid or tested positive. I have randomly tested myself with the home kits and have go to the local Urgent care and got tested.

I have had twice whatever bug was going around. I got myself tested often during two separate 7 day periods when I had a sore throat and runny nose ans always tested negative. I took medication my Dr gave me an in 7 days felt like normal again. 

Not to brag but I have in my life rarely gotten sick ever. Barely. I am fit and take my health seriously.

I get it covid is out there but I respect everyone's personal choices 

On an interesting note for me I noticed when the money runs out all the covid protections and hand wipes and masks are fading away.

My opinion


----------



## Topkick (Jul 18, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> ...I really like working at West Point.  That's literally the only reason



I've visited my son at West Point a few times and I've also been to NYC. I enjoyed the West Point area. Two different worlds.


----------



## “The Old Man” (Jul 18, 2022)

Caught it last week. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Not a complete loss of taste. However, nothing at all tastes right. 
Feels like a bad cold otherwise.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 19, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Sir,
> 
> May I please ask why you have not gone to the rally point with your family and gotten in the retrieval boat and exfilled to Texas? The people's republic of New York can get effed. What's crazy is how culturally different my friends down in the City are. They just do what the city tells them.


At some point we have to stop conceding territory. What good is clustering at a rally point, only to be picked off as enemies converge on your location?



Marauder06 said:


> ...I really like working at West Point.  That's literally the only reason I'm in New York.


Keep your head up dude! 

I'm sorry that you and Muppet have to deal with so much bullshit.


----------



## AWP (Jul 19, 2022)

The reason for my little informal poll was to get a feel for everyone's experiences with this...thing called COVID. It just reinforces my thoughts about this since day one.

The TL;DR version though is it doesn't matter who we are or what we do, we're going to get it or we won't. Groundbreaking, I know. Just like a cold or flu, we do our risk mitigation and whatever happens...happens. Take "the jab" or don't, get the booster or don't...doesn't matter. Masks? Irrelevant. Testing? Sketchy at best if we even took one.

It's all bullshit. We destroyed a global economy and ruined lives over bullshit.


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 19, 2022)

This was a problem pre-pandemic but our, over the top response to covid; finally fucked us all. So much for this amazing healthcare, every claims we have.

Doctors say health system has ‘collapsed’ as patient surges fuel ER closures - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## Muppet (Jul 19, 2022)

Retiring Dr. Fauci To Be Honored With 21-Booster Shot Salute

Fucking gold


----------



## Muppet (Jul 19, 2022)

Maria got a panicked call from aunt Sylvia, the aunt I like to covid prank. Her husband, papi has the plague, she says her taste buds are weird. Begged Maria to test her. 

Maria followed my advice, told her to calm down, don't matter, you have it or not, hydrate, Tylenol for fever.

Aunt Sylvia was fucking ragging, Maria caved. Tested her, she has the plague. Surprisingly, she is not freaking out. Lol


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 20, 2022)

The relationship between the federal government and Pfizer continues to become more and more suspect/problematic. But who's going to call it out?

There have been several defections from government positions to Pfizer executive positions which alone is problematic.  These are direct conflicts of interest and should be covered by some sort non-compete/NDA contract clause but evidently isn't.

Now, the U.S. government signed another $3.2B contract with Pfizer to provide an additional 105M vaccine doses this fall.  This represents >50% increase from the cost paid just a few months ago.
Pfizer signs new $3.2 billion COVID vaccine deal with U.S. government

But because that's not bad enough on it's own, consider the fact we've thrown out over 82M doses!
The U.S. has discarded over 82 million Covid vaccine doses, led by CVS and Walmart

I'm usually not the guy to call for inquiries and such but this absolutely smells.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 20, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> The relationship between the federal government and Pfizer continues to become more and more suspect/problematic. But who's going to call it out?
> 
> There have been several defections from government positions to Pfizer executive positions which alone is problematic.  These are direct conflicts of interest and should be covered by some sort non-compete/NDA contract clause but evidently isn't.
> 
> ...



Embrace the science!


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 20, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> The relationship between the federal government and Pfizer continues to become more and more suspect/problematic. But who's going to call it out?
> 
> There have been several defections from government positions to Pfizer executive positions which alone is problematic.  These are direct conflicts of interest and should be covered by some sort non-compete/NDA contract clause but evidently isn't.
> 
> ...


I got the government-required Pfizer COVID shot.  Two of them.

...and I got COVID anyway.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jul 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I got the government-required Pfizer COVID shot.  Two of them.
> 
> ...and I got COVID anyway.


Yeah but with the shots it’s just Covid-Lite!  👍👍👍


🤷‍♂️


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 20, 2022)

I managed to avoid the coof.  At one point I thought I might’ve had it, but it turned out to be seasonal allergies.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 21, 2022)

It's widely reported this morning that POTUS tested positive for COVID and is experiencing mild symptoms.  Fortunately he was vaccinated with multiple boosters. 

Our vaccines are so effective that everyone still gets COVID.


----------



## AWP (Jul 21, 2022)

I don't like Biden, I think he sucks ass, but I consider it a MAJOR problem if a head of state checks out while in office. Make no mistake, I do not wish that on the man.

Imagine the absolute fuckery that will result if he passes from COVID. Vaxxed. Trump survived. Harris...the DNC is really regretting that choice right now. The economy. The list goes on.

I can't stand the guy, but I really want him to pull through.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 21, 2022)

AWP said:


> I don't like Biden, I think he sucks ass, but I consider it a MAJOR problem if a head of state checks out while in office. Make no mistake, I do not wish that on the man.
> 
> Imagine the absolute fuckery that will result if he passes from COVID. Vaxxed. Trump survived. Harris...the DNC is really regretting that choice right now. The economy. The list goes on.
> 
> I can't stand the guy, but I really want him to pull through.


Same.  I didn't vote for him and don't like his policies, but he's still my President and a human being.  I want his party to go down in flames in the mid terms and the next presidential election, but in the meantime, I wish him physical and mental health, for for the good of our country.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 21, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> It's widely reported this morning that POTUS tested positive for COVID and is experiencing mild symptoms.  Fortunately he was vaccinated with multiple boosters.
> 
> Our vaccines are so effective that everyone still gets COVID.


This has to be the second or third time he's caught it.  Not surprised, he's in the most at risk group of the population.  Why do we elect old folks to office again?  Certainly ain't wisdom!


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> This has to be the second or third time he's caught it.  Not surprised, he's in the most at risk group of the population.  Why do we elect old folks to office again?  Certainly ain't wisdom!


This really is an issue.  We have a minimum age for eligibility but there should be a maximum age as well, even if it's an unwritten "law".  Even with solid mental capacity and a cabinet of rockstars, which Biden doesn’t even come close to having, being sworn in at 78 is probably too old given the demands/responsibilities of the office.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> This has to be the second or third time he's caught it.  Not surprised, he's in the most at risk group of the population.  Why do we elect old folks to office again?  Certainly ain't wisdom!


I wonder if the oil industry gave him this, like it gave him cancer.


----------



## AWP (Jul 21, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if the oil industry gave him this, like it gave him cancer.



This is America in 2022. Whatever the cause, it wasn't his fault.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 21, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if the oil industry gave him this, like it gave him cancer.


Maybe the baby oil industry.  Wasn't that the stuff to use for a real good tan in the 70's and 80's?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 21, 2022)

AWP said:


> This is America in 2022. Whatever the cause,* it didn't really happen*.


^just like AOC's fake handcuffs...


----------



## Gunz (Jul 21, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Maybe the baby oil industry.  Wasn't that the stuff to use for a real good tan in the 70's and 80's?


----------



## Gunz (Jul 21, 2022)

AWP said:


> This is America in 2022. Whatever the cause, it wasn't his fault



It was Putin's fault.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jul 21, 2022)

AWP said:


> I don't like Biden, I think he sucks ass, but I consider it a MAJOR problem if a head of state checks out while in office. Make no mistake, I do not wish that on the man.
> 
> Imagine the absolute fuckery that will result if he passes from COVID. Vaxxed. Trump survived. Harris...the DNC is really regretting that choice right now. The economy. The list goes on.
> 
> I can't stand the guy, but I really want him to pull through.


This is where they off him


----------



## AWP (Jul 21, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> This is where they off him


The thought crossed my mind.


----------



## Brill (Jul 21, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if the oil industry gave him this, like it gave him cancer.


He probably had a glass of water while watching a CAPEX at Lajune.


----------



## Brill (Jul 21, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> In related news...
> 
> Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate
> 
> ...



Same thing is happening on the USG civilian side. Y’all might be shocked but I’m not vaccinated despite being in the Executive Branch and subjected to the EO.

I SUSPECT I had Covid (checked all the symptom) in Mar 2020 and then Nov 2021, POTUS decided that in order for me to keep my job, I needed a…?vaccine? that doesn’t prevent COVID to keep my job.

5th Circuit has other ideas and a TRO is in place until Sep when the case will be heard by the 5 panel of judges. The USG’s position will be difficult.


----------



## Gunz (Jul 22, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> This is where they off him



I think they told him he has COVID just to make him STFU for a few days.


----------



## Blizzard (Jul 22, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> This is where they off him


Terrifying thought.


----------



## AWP (Jul 22, 2022)

I'm on hold waiting for the results of my sleep study. "Due to COVID-19 you may experience longer than normal hold times."

LOL, wut?


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 22, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm on hold waiting for the results of my sleep study. "Due to COVID-19 you may experience longer than normal hold times."
> 
> LOL, wut?



I'm a week out from referral and not expecting any contact for at least another week or two.


----------



## Brill (Jul 22, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm on hold waiting for the results of my sleep study. "Due to COVID-19 you may experience longer than normal hold times."
> 
> LOL, wut?


THAT is what they meant by two weeks…


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I haven’t. Nor has my wife.



This is now 50% false. Wife tested positive Tuesday. Baby is sick as well, I somehow am still negative today


AWP said:


> I'm on hold waiting for the results of my sleep study. "Due to COVID-19 you may experience longer than normal hold times."
> 
> LOL, wut?



Bro JKO help desk said the same thing, how is Covid affecting phone calls?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> This is now 50% false. Wife tested positive Tuesday. Baby is sick as well, I somehow am still negative today
> 
> 
> Bro JKO help desk said the same thing, how is Covid affecting phone calls?


I'm very sorry to hear about that.  It always sucks when our little ones get sick.  

And the COVID thing seems to have become an excuse for everyone not doing their job.  There's like a three-week wait to get a simple ID card update at my installation, and they don't allow walk-ins, even if you're willing to wait for hours.  The reason for the backlog and the "no waiting" rule?  "COVID."


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> This is now 50% false. Wife tested positive Tuesday. Baby is sick as well, I somehow am still negative today
> 
> 
> Bro JKO help desk said the same thing, how is Covid affecting phone calls?



Hope they both recover quickly.


----------



## Brill (Jul 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Bro JKO help desk said the same thing, how is Covid affecting phone calls?


Huawei, COVID, same same.

Edit: I swear I had NO foreknowledge of this.

CNN Exclusive: FBI investigation determined Chinese-made Huawei equipment could disrupt US nuclear arsenal communications


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 22, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm very sorry to hear about that.  It always sucks when our little ones get sick.
> 
> And the COVID thing seems to have become an excuse for everyone not doing their job.  There's like a three-week wait to get a simple ID card update at my installation, and they don't allow walk-ins, even if you're willing to wait for hours.  The reason for the backlog and the "no waiting" rule?  "COVID."



She is mostly fine. She had a 102 fever yesterday, but we have been able to keep it under control. My wife was sick AF for like 72 hours, but is 51% better now. Somehow I am not sick yet, and I have been testing routinely d/t school and clinical requirements. I truly believe there is a microdosing element to it( I am vaccinated, boosted and relatively healthy, thus small exposures have further stregthened my immunity). My wife has been the epitome of the "don't get COVID" clan. She has eaten inside in a restaurant maybe 5 times throughout the pandemic. Secondary to this, she hasn't been exposed like I have. I more routinely eat in restaurants, and my mask wearing has been limited to in the hospital, and when I am with her, and on any form of mass transit. I am sure I will get this from her at some point, but thus far (5 days since she developed symptoms) I have dodged it.  I believe the best course of action is what we did, which was try to avoid a novel virus until the variants were the mildest. We had basically assumed we would get COVID this week, post 2 weddings, 4 flights and hours in an airport. We are both vaccinated, and boosted, though the baby is not.


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 22, 2022)

Personal question, so feel free to ignore it.



TLDR20 said:


> We are both vaccinated, and boosted, though the baby is not.



If and when a vaccine is approved for your little one, will get it for her/him?


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 22, 2022)

Kaldak said:


> Personal question, so feel free to ignore it.
> 
> 
> 
> If and when a vaccine is approved for your little one, will get it for her/him?



It is already approved. We were planning to do it, however when we were scheduled she had Roseola, and didn’t want to overwhelm her immune system. Now that she has had the virus, plus antibodies from moms breast milk, I’m less inclined. I’m not a pediatrician though, and I follow the advice of doctors. If the pediatrician recommends it based on the evidence it is unlikely I would not follow her advice.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> This is now 50% false. Wife tested positive Tuesday. Baby is sick as well, I somehow am still negative today
> 
> 
> Bro JKO help desk said the same thing, how is Covid affecting phone calls?



Hope all is well and get better, soon. How bad are s/sx?


----------



## Muppet (Jul 22, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Hope all is well and get better, soon. How bad are s/sx?



Disregard, asked and answered.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 23, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> It is already approved. We were planning to do it, however when we were scheduled she had Roseola, and didn’t want to overwhelm her immune system. Now that she has had the virus, plus antibodies from moms breast milk, I’m less inclined. I’m not a pediatrician though, and I follow the advice of doctors. If the pediatrician recommends it based on the evidence it is unlikely I would not follow her advice.


An approval that did not go through the normal rigor of general FDA approval process though. Or are we now going to see a "new normal" and all drugs get approved w/in 18 months?

Something to think about I suppose. 

Generally probably why it took so long to get it for me, I went outside, worked with people, at with people. Didn't isolate myself like a Germaphobe. But even after B's first legit exposure she didn't get it. And then we somehow both got it at the SAME FUCKING TIME when we weren't even together.

In regards to you getting it, remember the tests aren't 100%, failure rate a bit too high for me to put credence in them. So you may actually have the wu flu now or you may not get it even with this intimate exposure. It may take another year. 

Like I've said a bunch, society needs to treat this like the flu and move forward...well I said that a year ago. And we're still being fear bombed by Fauci and 46. (Turds)


----------



## Brill (Jul 24, 2022)

“Your Honor, the attorneys for plaintiffs “Feds 4 Medical Freedom“ would like to call Dr Brix to the stand in the case against the vax mandate EO. Plaintiffs submit exhibit A”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550586541239635969


----------



## Gunz (Jul 24, 2022)

https://english.pravda.ru/world/153188-joe_biden_covid_cancer/


----------



## Muppet (Jul 26, 2022)

All hail lord and savior Fauci.


----------



## AWP (Jul 26, 2022)

"Insidious nature"...

There are times when I wonder if my shreds of optimism are wrong...and I don't have many left.

Y'all keep sucking Fauci's dick...You do you.


----------



## Brill (Jul 26, 2022)

Muppet said:


> All hail lord and savior Fauci.


I got counseled for calling him that on a forum on our inside network.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 26, 2022)

Brill said:


> I got counseled for calling him that on a forum on our inside network.



Fucking seriously!


----------



## Brill (Jul 26, 2022)

AWP said:


> Y'all keep sucking Fauci's dick...You do you.



Monkey Pox bro!


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 26, 2022)

Brill said:


> Monkey Pox bro!


This is not financial advice. 

The company Siga Technologies ($SIGA) is uniquely positioned as the prime supplier of the monkeypox vaccine. They focus mainly on production of vaccines focusing on deadly viruses like smallpox, ebola... and monkeypox. 

Do with this information what you will.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 26, 2022)

Monkey pox...
Guess, lessons were not learned in the 80s. Lol


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> This is not financial advice.
> 
> The company Siga Technologies ($SIGA) is uniquely positioned as the prime supplier of the monkeypox vaccine. They focus mainly on production of vaccines focusing on deadly viruses like smallpox, ebola... and monkeypox.
> 
> Do with this information what you will.


<<salivates in Paul Pelosi>>


----------



## Muppet (Jul 26, 2022)

Lying hypocrite


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## Muppet (Jul 27, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> View attachment 40061



My wife's aunt is terribly afraid of the bloody pox now. I told her, stop watching the news and don't eat asses of promiscuous gay men and you'll be ok, titi.


----------



## AWP (Jul 27, 2022)

Muppet said:


> don't eat asses of promiscuous gay men and you'll be ok


Who will be the first forum member to catch the pox? Hmmmm…


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

Gunz said:


> https://english.pravda.ru/world/153188-joe_biden_covid_cancer/


They talk all kind of shit in that article, but they can't even Google Translate the headline right...



> Joe Biden: A national tragedy that has dementia, cancer and Covid *ant* the same time
> See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/153188-joe_biden_covid_cancer/


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Lying hypocrite


The gaslighting and flat out lying going on right now in our country is incredible, be it over COVID, Ukraine, President Biden's health, the recession-that-isn't-a-recession, the economy, gas prices is pretty incredible.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The *gaslighting* and flat out lying going on right now in our country is incredible, be it over COVID, Ukraine, President Biden's health, the recession-that-isn't-a-recession, the economy, gas prices is pretty incredible.


"Lie, lie often, and isolate from the truth." 

The funny thing is that it has become *so* apparent, I rank the bullshitting on a sliding scale. 

For instance, KJP is not nearly as good at gaslighting as Psaki was. But those two don't hold a candle to Joy Reid or anyone on the View.

It's not even an argument on "is this happening?", it's simply an argument over the degree and skill of the person doing it.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 27, 2022)

AWP said:


> Who will be the first forum member to catch the pox? Hmmmm…



Never go ATM. NEVER!


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Never go ATM. NEVER!


Clerks 2 begs to differ...


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> "Lie, lie often, and isolate from the truth."
> 
> The funny thing is that it has become *so* apparent, I rank the bullshitting on a sliding scale.
> 
> ...


Psaki was at least a decent spokesperson.  KJP is just... bad.  Like, at everything.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The gaslighting and flat out lying going on right now in our country is incredible, be it over COVID, Ukraine, President Biden's health, the recession-that-isn't-a-recession, the economy, gas prices is pretty incredible.


Forbes reporter asked the current press secretary if the White House was trying to change the definition of a recession.  Legit everyone in the White House and the general administration is Baghdad Bob.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

The woman just can't talk.  She consistently comes off as unprepared and her stammering and stalling don't inspire confidence in what she's saying.  Time for the administration to make a change.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The gaslighting and flat out lying going on right now in our country is incredible, be it over COVID, Ukraine, President Biden's health, the recession-that-isn't-a-recession, the economy, gas prices is pretty incredible.



Politicians lying to us as always been a thing, but I really think it's gotten worse (since the last few years of Obama) because of social media. 

It's not hard at all to say something like "We're coming out of a pandemic and the world basically stopping for 18+ months; there is going to be economic downturn and adjustments as it rebalances", but why bother to do that if you can just lie and idiots on Facebook/twitter/whatever will parrot the talking points? Literally most everyone in the DNC/GOP have begun to realize this and adopt it as strategy. 

It's the quote attributed to Mark Twain

_A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes._


----------



## Muppet (Jul 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The woman just can't talk.  She consistently comes off as unprepared and her stammering and stalling don't inspire confidence in what she's saying.  Time for the administration to make a change.



They won't make a change sir. She's protected. Let's be honest, sexual orientation and race play the major role, not actual competency.


----------



## AWP (Jul 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The woman just can't talk.  She consistently comes off as unprepared and her stammering and stalling don't inspire confidence in what she's saying.  Time for the administration to make a change.



That was horrible and embarrassing for our country. Can anyone in the White House put together and communicate a single coherent thought?


----------



## Kaldak (Jul 27, 2022)

AWP said:


> That was horrible and embarrassing for our country. Can anyone in the White House put together and communicate a single coherent thought?



No.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 27, 2022)

There are plenty of smart and articulate Democrats in our country.  "Favored demographic" or not, they need to get rid of the current spox and put someone in who can do the job.

There are not many times when I look at someone doing something and say "I could do a better job," but compared to her, I absolutely could.  I could certainly string together more coherent sentences and use fewer filler words and phrases.  And after several years of CI and HUMINT training I could at least lie convincingly.

That said, I wouldn't want to do it, even if it were for a regime that lined up with my political views.  It's a tough job.  Even tougher when you suck at it and everyone knows it.


----------



## Chopstick (Jul 27, 2022)

Posted on the official President Biden Twitter account July 25th.  All of those staffers and they misspelled "peasant".


----------



## Gunz (Jul 27, 2022)

AWP said:


> Who will be the first forum member to catch the pox? Hmmmm…


----------



## RackMaster (Jul 27, 2022)

Is it already ass eating season?  I thought we were still in the middle of a drought.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 27, 2022)

Muppet said:


> My wife's aunt is terribly afraid of the bloody pox now. I told her, stop watching the news and don't eat asses of promiscuous gay men and you'll be ok, titi.


Holy shit, lol! That is epic. 

I'd have said, "It's something the marica's are spreading, don't worry about it tia. Just avoid your hairdresser 'Carlita', go see Gloria instead. Yes I know the gossip isn't as good, but some people make bad lifestyle choices. " .


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> *There are plenty of smart and articulate Democrats in our country. * "Favored demographic" or not, they need to get rid of the current spox and put someone in who can do the job.


Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?

I am not asking in an adversarial manner; I am truly interested to see who makes that grade with you. I try and give this question serious thought if only for one reason- I am contrarian by nature, and my default position is agnosticism and cynicism.

Meaning, there are some places where I see people say, "All republicans are fascists and homophobes!", and I enjoy talking about Ron DeSantis, Thomas Sowell, some others as a way to highlight their shitty position.

And, because I like arguing discourse, I'm happy to do the same to the "Libtards are all the same they wanna kill babies and have sex with kids!" crowd. I often find myself just finding shitty republicans to highlight issues with the right, or bad policy- instead of having a list of "good dems".

But I will say... I have many fewer options in that latter discussion. One, for the amount of "sane, logical" Dems I see (I know your bar was 'smart and articulate', and I respect that) is like, zero. Two, the baseline ideological platform of the left seems to not only breed but _require_ it's members to be wayyyyyyyy left of center.

Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees on this one- but you can be as smart and articulate as you'd like while not being able to define a woman, saying men can give birth, and telling me that it's perfectly fine for an adult to have secret conversations with 6 year olds about sex, gender, and trans rights.

That doesn't make you a good person- it makes you a very adept advocate for the things listed, and in _no way _would I allow you to have more power to continue those endeavors.


ETA- This has nothing to do with COVID. It actually belongs in another thread we don't have anymore, I am happy to take it to PM's, Mara. Don't want to derail the atrocity that is the COVID-19 thread... but I suppose it does serve as a pretty meta example of the political nature of COVID.

ETAA (Edit to Add Again)- I just made a great point. Politics and the political nature of COVID are so closely intertwined that my original post is fine. Anyway, if any mods wanna take this down or adjust, let me know.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?
> 
> I am not asking in an adversarial manner; I am truly interested to see who makes that grade with you. I try and give this question serious thought if only for one reason- I am contrarian by nature, and my default position is agnosticism and cynicism.
> 
> ...



If I wanted a good democrat with street cred to talk with people and respect boundaries and be able to talk logically, give me Jim Webb.  I am very conservative in most areas, a bit libertarian in others, and I would even probably vote for him if I could....


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 28, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> If I wanted a good democrat with street cred to talk with people and respect boundaries and be able to talk logically, give me Jim Webb.  I am very conservative in most areas, a bit libertarian in others, and I would even probably vote for him if I could....


Great choice here, Doc. I wish he was still active; I think it's *very* telling that he dropped out of politics due to his inability to deal with writ large policies of the Democratic party. 

The fact that he saw where the ship was going and bounced makes me like him more. It seems his political leanings (refusing to vote/support Hillary, opening the door for a Trump vote) changed pretty considerably later in his career.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?



General rule of thumb seems to be that the more likely it is the average American is aware of that politician, the stupider things said politician says/does.

I'll use Colorado as an example since I live and vote here.

Which of the below politicians do you think people know, and of that group, who would you think is "smart and articulate"?

Diana DeGette, Joe Neguse, Lauren Boebert, Ken Buck, Doug Lamborn, Jason Crow, Ed Perlmutter, Michael Bennet, John Hickenlooper.

ETA: Obviously if you follow politics or  are politically active in the state you might have some idea of these people, but I don't think most people do.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 28, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> General rule of thumb seems to be that the more likely it is the average American is aware of that politician, the stupider things said politician says/does.
> 
> I'll use Colorado as an example since I live and vote here.
> 
> ...


Well, you'll have to extend me some grace on this one. I am unsure as to how your bolded furthers the conversation or informs the question at hand. I hope you'll allow me to re-phrase/re-cage.

The whole point of the OP; "_I am willing to hear who *you* think is articulate and smart, I just don't know many; please help me learn." _

The interesting thing your post seems to convey is, "_Given enough press and the awareness of the Average American, politicians all do increasingly stupid things commensurate with and proportional to their presence in the zeitgeist._" Which is a pretty wild thought to entertain. It's like Schrödinger's superposition in politics.

"_In this box, you have a politician. As long as they're completely invisible to the press and the Average American isn't aware of them, they're smart and articulate. However, the more you observe the politician, the stupider things they say/do." _To follow that to it's logical conclusion- the most popular politicians say and do the dumbest things.

I tend to agree with that last sentence, although I am not sure that was your intended point. 

Super fun reminder that's not meant to say anything in particular; the current head of the Democratic Party is the most popular president in the history of the United States. 81 million Average Americans are aware of him.


----------



## Brill (Jul 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> The woman just can't talk.  She consistently comes off as unprepared and her stammering and stalling don't inspire confidence in what she's saying.  Time for the administration to make a change.


Bless your heart that you think she was hired for knowledge, skills, and abilities. She possesses traits that supersede ability to perform well or at all frankly.

Intersectionality is the only thing that matters.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Well, you'll have to extend me some grace on this one. I am unsure as to how your bolded furthers the conversation or informs the question at hand. I hope you'll allow me to re-phrase/re-cage.
> 
> The whole point of the OP; "_I am willing to hear who *you* think is articulate and smart, I just don't know many; please help me learn." _
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with anything you posted.

The bolded statements are slightly flipped from what I was trying to get at though. I don't think people do stupider things as they get more coverage, I think they get more coverage precisely because they do/say stupid things.

Nobody in media wants to present someone who can calmly explain their positioning on a topic; we want people who talk about Jewish-space lasers and can't define what a woman is. The American people as a whole would rather watch a trainwreck than an actual policy talk.

My point is that I really don't believe that the majority of our representatives are particularly dumb or inarticulate, but that we only see the crazies from both sides.

To use the list I gave you; I think only one of them doesn't qualify as smart or articulate (Bobert) and that's the one who is always being covered by the media. Granted, she got elected, so does it matter what I think?

I've seen every other person on that list speak, and even the one I've actively canvased against (Lamborn) is still a generally articulate/smart person.


ETA: For non-Colorado Dems that I think are decently articulate/smart off the top of my head;
Ro Khanna, Sherrod Brown, Tammy Duckworth, Patrick Leahy, Bernie Sanders, Raphael Warnock, Tim Kaine, Jon Ossoff.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2022)

I don't think any of our representatives are dumb. Sure, the right name or pretty face can be propped up by money and put in the system and be elected to be a mouthpiece for whoever is pulling their strings, but I think that's pretty rare. 

But I sure see a bunch that are inarticulate. I'm not surprised, though. A lot of people who are elected are policy wants or businessmen or in fields where they just don't have to watch what they say and how they say it, and we all know the pressure of what a microphone and a camera can do. 

What is so disheartening and disdainful are the people who get elected who forget why they're being elected and sharpen their tongues and appeal to the masses and become very articulate, but are an inch deep because now they are professional politicians.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2022)

Speaking of COVID, a handful of people might have recently had it. All of them have had the vaccination, and most of them have worn masks at work (in spite of our building being non-clinical building and not requiring masks).  So my leadership in all of its wisdom has decided everyone has to be masked again, maintain social distancing, it's crazy.


----------



## Brill (Jul 28, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Speaking of COVID, a handful of people might have recently had it. All of them have had the vaccination, and most of them have worn masks at work (in spite of our building being non-clinical building and not requiring masks).  So my leadership in all of its wisdom has decided everyone has to be masked again, maintain social distancing, it's crazy.



What‘s the point of vax & mask then?


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2022)

Brill said:


> What‘s the point of vax & mask then?



Fuck, Don't ask me. I just work here.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 28, 2022)

@Cookie_ thank you for clarifying. It doesn't specifically address the topic at hand, but I understand what you're saying. Thanks for engaging. 



Devildoc said:


> Speaking of COVID, a handful of people might have recently had it. All of them have had the vaccination, and most of them have worn masks at work (in spite of our building being non-clinical building and not requiring masks).  So my leadership in all of its wisdom has decided everyone has to be masked again, maintain social distancing, it's crazy.


Is anyone thinking of saying, "Fuck you, no." (respectfully, of course)?


----------



## Brill (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Is anyone thinking of saying, "Fuck you, no." (respectfully, of course)?


We’ve had some say that for testing & masks and Employee Relations quickly jump into to 5-day suspension followed by termination after 15 days.

Separation (retirement/resignation) section is really backlogged and our hiring cannot keep up.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 28, 2022)

Brill said:


> We’ve had some say that for testing & masks and Employee Relations quickly jump into to 5-day suspension followed by termination after 15 days.
> 
> Separation (retirement/resignation) section is really backlogged and our hiring cannot keep up.


Wild. The temporary stay basically saved a close friend of mine's retirement... the "fatigue" from our service members over this issue is extreme. I am not speaking for all service members, rather, those in my unit and ones I have talked to. 

I think there is someone reading the writing on the wall, which is exactly why boosters haven't been mandated. The straw poll of "would you get another shot if we told you to" didn't work out great.


----------



## Brill (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Wild. The temporary stay basically saved a close friend of mine's retirement... the "fatigue" from our service members over this issue is extreme. I am not speaking for all service members, rather, those in my unit and ones I have talked to.
> 
> I think there is someone reading the writing on the wall, which is exactly why boosters haven't been mandated. The straw poll of "would you get another shot if we told you to" didn't work out great.



I see the vax stats across the SOF formation and it closely tracks USG rates (97-98%) but on the civilian side, the only verification is the card so the actual vax rate is prob much lower (faking) and it’s worth noting many left before deadline for punishment.


----------



## 757 (Jul 28, 2022)

Random small study I found on monkey pox for those that enjoy data. If it's been posted elsewhere, my apologies.

Also a meme, because I can't help myself 😂


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Is anyone thinking of saying, "Fuck you, no." (respectfully, of course)?



And keeping their job?  Bwahahaha....ah, no.

Seriously, I'm not sure what the recourse would be since it is not a clinical building and that the big boss is basically making up policy on her own.  Would we be in the right? Yes. Would we also be dead men walking? Also yes.  

I note with delicious irony that the people who are getting COVID are the people who are vaccinated in regularly wear masks while the few of us who did not get the vaccination and have askewed mask particles as much as possible I've been pretty much okay.  

I did have COVID twice, once last summer where it was literally "a bad cold" and once in December before Christmas and that was pretty awful.  But since then I have been living life with no special precautions, as has my family, and we have been fine.


----------



## AWP (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?



My sort of moderate opinion:
1. You'd have to start with a Blue Dog Democrat (if they even exist anymore) or a moderate because far too many of that party today IMO are a bunch of screech owls.
2. Tulsi Gabbard got the shaft from her party for standing up to the Clinton machine.
3. This COVID shit is fear, bullshit, and residual control. If you can’t think for yourself, double down on draconian policies and hide behind The Man.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 28, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?
> 
> I am not asking in an adversarial manner; I am truly interested to see who makes that grade with you. I try and give this question serious thought if only for one reason- I am contrarian by nature, and my default position is agnosticism and cynicism.
> 
> ...


I was gonna say Jason Crow, but he's in bed with the gun grabbing hardcore idiots that run the party. So probably none. Like I've moved to Texas and these idiots are trying to run Francis O'Rorke. The Democrats have lost their way.  I know @Devildoc mentioned Webb, I have no idea how that guy maintains his registration amongst them.



Cookie_ said:


> General rule of thumb seems to be that the more likely it is the average American is aware of that politician, the stupider things said politician says/does.
> 
> I'll use Colorado as an example since I live and vote here.
> 
> ...



So basically, in the state of Colorado you have one decent politician in Ed. He should probably retire while he can.




Cookie_ said:


> I don't disagree with anything you posted.
> 
> The bolded statements are slightly flipped from what I was trying to get at though. I don't think people do stupider things as they get more coverage, I think they get more coverage precisely because they do/say stupid things.
> 
> ...


Your whole list here is people I'd rather give to Putin in exchange for Griner.


----------



## Steve1839 (Jul 29, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Diana DeGette, Joe Neguse, Lauren Boebert, Ken Buck, Doug Lamborn, Jason Crow, Ed Perlmutter, Michael Bennet, John Hickenlooper.


Ken Buck was my congress critter for most of my most recent stay in Colorado...he's not particularly well spoken and doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the porch...Boebert's elevator misses a few floors, but I once ate in her restaurant and the food was decent and the scenery was pleasant...DeGette and Neguse are pretty typical progress Commun...Democrats...Perlmutter is taking a long overdue retirement...Hickenlooper seems to have more integrity than the POTUS, but he can be pretty goofy at times.  I disagree with Bennet on most things but he can be effective crossing party lines...he and Cory Gardner made a decent team, IMNSHO...I can't speak for Lamborn and Crow was a Ranger so even though his politics are contrary to mine, I'll give him a pass.  I kinda miss having Ben Nighthorse Campbell as my representative and senator...he was able to piss off both parties.


----------



## Muppet (Jul 31, 2022)

Ok, Biden has the plague again? He just had it. Does anybody actually believe this?


----------



## Marauder06 (Jul 31, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Let's say... other than Tulsi Gabbard, who are these smart and articulate Dems? If you were building a team of people with policies you would support or a team that you think could help, who would that be?
> 
> I am not asking in an adversarial manner; I am truly interested to see who makes that grade with you. I try and give this question serious thought if only for one reason- I am contrarian by nature, and my default position is agnosticism and cynicism.
> 
> ...


In the context of my previous post about the White House spox, I'm casting a wider net than national-level Democrat politicians, none of whom I know personally.  I can think of several "intelligent and articulate" Democrats from among my circle of friends, including some of the people I work with and some of the people I went to grad school with.  There is even one here on the site, although in retrospect I don't know if he considers himself a Democrat or a Libertarian (or neither).  At any rate, those are the people I had in mind when I made my comment.

Additionally, as previously mentioned I thought that Jen Psaki, the previous holder of that office, did a comparatively good job in that role despite her annoying penchant to "circle back."  And with millions upon millions of Dems in our country, I have no doubt that there are plenty of them who fall into the category we're discussing, I just don't know them.

In terms of whom I might have on a team of Democrats--I wouldn't. I don't want Democrats to win at the national level and wouldn't do anything to support such an effort. In fact if I were compelled to put together a team of Dems I would cobble together the worst representatives of that party and try to get them through the primaries, in order to give my side a better chance at winning the general election. Exactly like what Dems are doing in some Republican races right now... although as this article mentions, that could backfire.

Shifting away from the specific case of the WH spox and speaking more broadly:  with regard to the Democrat platform on things like the definition of a woman, racial equity, etc., I disagree with those positions firmly and think that they are stupid, but that doesn't mean that the people advancing them are.  They were smart enough to use those positions to win the Presidency, the House and (with the VP's vote) the Senate.  We all know politicians say anything, including a bunch of stuff they don't believe.  I think Democrats are fully capable of defining what a woman is or any number of other things, they just say they can't (or won't) because it's politically expedient.

And if you're a politician, political expediency is... smart politics.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 2, 2022)

Monkeypox Symbol Added To Pride Flag


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 3, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Monkeypox Symbol Added To Pride Flag



California declared a state of emergency. But why are we not just being clear that 90% of the people getting it are gay men who like anal?


----------



## Gunz (Aug 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> California declared a state of emergency. But why are we not just being clear that 90% of the people getting it are gay men who like anal?



The CDC--which should be the source for truth about disease--is perfectly cool omitting vital information like that from the public. They don't give a fuck who they panic as long as they don't offend gays. Luckily, the information is out there, you just won't find it at the CDC.


----------



## AWP (Aug 3, 2022)

Gunz said:


> The CDC--which should be the source for truth about disease--is perfectly cool omitting vital information like that from the public. They don't give a fuck who they panic as long as they don't offend gays. Luckily, the information is out there, you just won't find it at the CDC.



The WHO will investigate and conclude monkeypox was caused by climate change.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> The WHO will investigate and conclude monkeypox was caused by climate change.



Who?
;)


----------



## Cookie_ (Aug 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> But why are we not just being clear that 90% of the people getting it are gay men who like anal?



I bet it's above 95% just "men who sleep with men" (because I guess typing gay/bi isn't descriptive enough for most media outlets?).

And it's spreading even amongst guys who don't like spearing the chocolate starfish; the gay party scene is basically every "white girl who kisses girls when drunk" on steroids.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 3, 2022)

Wow, how dare you all point out facts and statistics. That's a hallmark of supremacy, I am told. For SHAME. 

Could we do... 2 weeks without an orgy to flatten the curve? Nah? Nvm.


----------



## Brill (Aug 3, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> "men who sleep with men"



That is incredibly hurtful to lesbian trans men.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 3, 2022)

Brill said:


> That is incredibly hurtful to lesbian trans men.


I was going to say the same thing- but you can't be lesbian _and _trans. They're mutually exclusive. 

So, anyway, you're cancelled delete your account.


----------



## Brill (Aug 3, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I was going to say the same thing- but you can't be lesbian _and _trans.


My DEI rep assures me that it’s bigoted to question the feelings of members of the PRIDE faction at work. On the plus side, we get paid time to attend some Hip Hop culture celebration (not kidding) but we do have to be masked so it won’t become a super spreader event like The Summer of CVS Peaceful Arson-fest.

USG is doing the work.


----------



## TLDR20 (Aug 3, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I was going to say the same thing- but you can't be lesbian _and _trans. They're mutually exclusive.
> 
> So, anyway, you're cancelled delete your account.



But if you were a man who is trans to female and you like girls you would be a lesbian.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 3, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> But if you were a man who is trans to female and you like girls you would be a lesbian.


Wow. How unbelievably bigoted.

Homosexuals inherently admit and respect the differences in sexes and genders. They’re attracted to the same sex; ‘lesbian/gay’ is their orientation.

Trans do not recognize the construct of a binary choice between sexes; there are infinite genders, and your choice of male and female can change daily.

You can not simultaneously reject the idea of more than 2 genders and the fact that ‘male/female’ exist while stating that you’re ‘attracted to the same sex’.

Check your privilige, cis white dude.

ETA- shoulda said ‘reject the idea of only 2 genders’… Much like Demi Lovato, I am utterly confused and have a very tenuous grasp on all this. Consider me ‘factually fluid’.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I was going to say the same thing- but you can't be lesbian _and _trans. They're mutually exclusive.
> 
> So, anyway, you're cancelled delete your account.



Um, I'm afraid you missed out.  Apparently the penis is now a female sex organ, as perpetuated by the quadrillion colored flag alphabet people. Crazy expose of what's going on in the UK right now: The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Um, I'm afraid you missed out.  Apparently the penis is now a female sex organ, as perpetuated by the quadrillion colored flag alphabet people. Crazy expose of what's going on in the UK right now: The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women


I love this timeline. We just make stuff up!


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I love this timeline. We just make stuff up!



I have become more enlightened here than in any mandatory 'be nice' diversity training I've ever had....


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I love this timeline. We just make stuff up!


Never let the facts get in the way of the narrative.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 4, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I have become more enlightened here than in any mandatory 'ne nice' diversity training I've ever had....



Do we get CMEs for this???


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 4, 2022)

So having had the 'Vid and now Gastroenteritis. I think I would rather give my enemy the latter. With Covid at least I could drive a van from Arizona to Texas...with this I've had violent diarrhea for 3.5 days and dropped 8.8 pounds.  Only today could I even eat much. I think today I've drank at least 2.5x what I was able to drink yesterday, so I think recovery is inbound.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 5, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So having had the 'Vid and now Gastroenteritis. I think I would rather give my enemy the latter. With Covid at least I could drive a van from Arizona to Texas...with this I've had violent diarrhea for 3.5 days and dropped 8.8 pounds.  Only today could I even eat much. I think today I've drank at least 2.5x what I was able to drink yesterday, so I think recovery is inbound.



My first version of the vid was almost 5 days of gastrointestinal plus cold s/sx. I wanted to die. That was in early 2000, prior to the plague being a thing. Most believe it was here prior, in fact, we got married October 26th 2019, 9 friends bagged from our wedding, claiming that they can't shake a fucked up cold.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 5, 2022)

Enjoy


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 5, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So having had the 'Vid and now Gastroenteritis. I think I would rather give my enemy the latter. With Covid at least I could drive a van from Arizona to Texas...with this I've had violent diarrhea for 3.5 days and dropped 8.8 pounds.  Only today could I even eat much. I think today I've drank at least 2.5x what I was able to drink yesterday, so I think recovery is inbound.



I had cholera (and yes, I had the mandatory cholera vax).  12 pounds in 2 days, it wasn't even enough poop to be considered diarrhea: just water.  I cut a 8" seam in my cammy trousers because the bouts were so frequent and sudden I would not have enough time to pull them down.  I had another corpsman start a couple IVs which I medlocked; I hooked up to bags of saline and lactated ringers every few hours so I wouldn't get dehydrated.  It took me months to bounce back from that.


----------



## Brill (Aug 5, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I had cholera (and yes, I had the mandatory cholera vax).



You drank shitty water?


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 5, 2022)

Brill said:


> You drank shitty water?



Literally, yes.  Not sure how but confirmed via testing.  I think it was getting my hands wet somehow and then wiping my face or wiping my mouth, but that was almost 20 years ago.


----------



## Brill (Aug 5, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Not sure how but confirmed via testing.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 8, 2022)

No fucking surprise here.  Nothing done had been based on any real science.

Court Documents Reveal Canada’s Travel Ban Had No Scientific Basis


----------



## Gunz (Aug 8, 2022)

_"But recently released court documents—which capture the decision-making behind the travel mandate—indicate that, far from following the science, the prime minister and his Cabinet *were focused on politics*"_

Color me shocked.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 8, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I had cholera (and yes, I had the mandatory cholera vax).  12 pounds in 2 days, it wasn't even enough poop to be considered diarrhea: just water.  I cut a 8" seam in my cammy trousers because the bouts were so frequent and sudden I would not have enough time to pull them down.  I had another corpsman start a couple IVs which I medlocked; I hooked up to bags of saline and lactated ringers every few hours so I wouldn't get dehydrated.  It took me months to bounce back from that.




Wow. We drank river water in VN but had little purification tablets to shake up in our canteens. Still nasty. Also spent two years drinking, washing, showering in Camp Lejeune water. I'm fine except I glow in the dark.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 11, 2022)

The data is in, all the lockdowns and authoritarian bullshit, to "flatten the curve"; did sweet fuck all.



> Conclusions The minimal association in the first wave, and the lack thereof in the second, is compatible with the hypothesis that NPIs do not, per se, lead to a decline in case growth. Instead, the correlations we observed might be better explained by a combination of underlying behaviors of the populations in each province and the natural dynamics of SARS-CoV-2. Although there exist alternative explanations for the equivocal relationship between NPIs and case growth, the onus of providing evidence shifts to demonstrating how NPIs can consistently have flat association, despite incrementally high stringency.



https://t.co/KxCzjTDHR9


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 11, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> The data is in, all the lockdowns and authoritarian bullshit, to "flatten the curve"; did sweet fuck all.
> 
> 
> 
> DEFINE_ME


NPI = nonpharmaceutial intervertions (e.g. masks, separation, etc.).  Posting the link in case others needed to look it up like I did: Nonpharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs) | CDC


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 11, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> The data is in, all the lockdowns and authoritarian bullshit, to "flatten the curve"; did sweet fuck all.
> 
> 
> 
> DEFINE_ME



I think I said that on this board many times.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 11, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> NPI = nonpharmaceutial intervertions (e.g. masks, separation, etc.).  Posting the link in case others needed to look it up like I did: Nonpharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs) | CDC



Thanks. I meant to add that but got pulled away by a couple of tiny monster's.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 12, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> The company Siga Technologies ($SIGA) is uniquely positioned as the prime supplier of the monkeypox vaccine...Do with this information what you will.


The day you posted this, Siga stock was $16.88/share...so flush with a little cash from the house sale on, I decided "why not?"...since then, Siga has sold $26 million of Monkey Pox vaccine to Uncle Sugar and the stock price is up $8 per share...Dame says I owe you a beer...maybe a shot and beer...


----------



## Muppet (Aug 13, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> The data is in, all the lockdowns and authoritarian bullshit, to "flatten the curve"; did sweet fuck all.
> 
> 
> 
> DEFINE_ME



Ya don't say! Lol. Pure fucking control, shooting from the hip.


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 13, 2022)

Steve1839 said:


> The day you posted this, Siga stock was $16.88/share...so flush with a little cash from the house sale on, I decided "why not?"...since then, Siga has sold $26 million of Monkey Pox vaccine to Uncle Sugar and the stock price is up $8 per share...Dame says I owe you a beer...maybe a shot and beer...


As always, this was not financial advice… but I took my gains and moved on happily.  

In other news, here I sit in Harry Reed (McCarran) airport in Vegas… and everything is closed at 10 pm. They were literally closing the doors in peoples faces to shut the place. Can’t get a beer or food. 

Silly goose behavior.


----------



## Dame (Aug 13, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> As always, this was not financial advice… but I took my gains and moved on happily.
> 
> In other news, here I sit in Harry Reed (McCarran) airport in Vegas… and everything is closed at 10 pm. They were literally closing the doors in peoples faces to shut the place. Can’t get a beer or food.
> 
> Silly goose behavior.


WTAF?! You don't call, you don't write... We could have picked you up dummy. We are so close to the airport now that we count how many of which airlines fly over.

ETA: McCarran. Fuck Reid.


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 13, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> In other news, here I sit in Harry Reed (McCarran) airport in Vegas… and everything is closed at 10 pm. They were literally closing the doors in peoples faces to shut the place. Can’t get a beer or food.


For my sake, don't do that again...Dame gets real upset when that shit happens...we coulda fed you and maybe even likkered you up....


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 14, 2022)

IN ALL FAIRNESS- it was a layover. I wasn’t stuck. It was just a bunch of mid grade layovers that caused me to be annoyed but not be with friends. 

But, noted, and I’ll totally take y’all up next time.


----------



## AWP (Aug 14, 2022)

Air travel being what it is now, a person is crazy to not build in a 2 hour layover when possible.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 16, 2022)

You know, like, we screwed ourselves because these people thought getting a million shots would prevent them from getting the Wu-Flu. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559165537015549952


----------



## Muppet (Aug 16, 2022)

Had a few plague pts, started to feel yucky, didn't really give a fuck, Maria wanted me to test.

Negative. There's such thing as summer colds, especially in and out from AC to humidity to AC.

Then, I found this gem.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 17, 2022)




----------



## amlove21 (Aug 17, 2022)




----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 17, 2022)

I took a train into NYC yesterday.  Shortly before we boarded there was a recorded announcement stipulating that anyone riding the train had to wear a mask.  I was super annoyed about this because 1) NY moved away from such mandates months ago, 2) beacause of point #1 I don't carry a mask with me anymore, and 3) that stupid shit never worked in the first place.

But when I got on the train, almost no one was wearing a mask. The ticket checker and a couple of passengers had one on, but that's it.  No one gave me a hard time about not having one.  I guess the announcement is just old.


----------



## Gunz (Aug 17, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Had a few plague pts, started to feel yucky, didn't really give a fuck, Maria wanted me to test.
> 
> Negative. There's such thing as summer colds, especially in and out from AC to humidity to AC.
> 
> ...



I’m sure he’ll have


----------



## Muppet (Aug 17, 2022)

Lmao


----------



## Muppet (Aug 23, 2022)

Trust the science....


----------



## Muppet (Aug 24, 2022)

Yes!


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 27, 2022)

It's crazy how these fools keep clutching at straws and move the goalposts instead of just admitting government stupidity destroyed a lot of folks lives.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562508699557474306


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 27, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> It's crazy how these fools keep clutching at straws and move the goalposts instead of just admitting government stupidity destroyed a lot of folks lives.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562508699557474306


What happened to “get this vax and you won’t catch COVID?”


----------



## AWP (Aug 27, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> What happened to “get this vax and you won’t catch COVID?”



Needs a better love emoji...

I thought a lot of people were smart until 2020. That year broke any shred, and it was small, of my faith in humanity. People suck. We need to go.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 27, 2022)

AWP said:


> Needs a better love emoji...
> 
> I thought a lot of people were smart until 2020. That year broke any shred, and it was small, of my faith in humanity. People suck. We need to go.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 27, 2022)

It's all fucking nonsense. While I don't/did not buy into the "plandemic" thing, it turned out to be partially true.

The useful rats in any government will try anything to keep it going, pandering to fear of fucking retarded citizens that cannot form individual thought process.

Just the other day, I witnessed a registration lady at local trauma center, who sits behind glass, walking around with 2 fucking muzzles. The fear is real.

I agree with other here. I had a shred of trust that humanity would/could be smart enough. 2 and a half years later, cunts.

But, you just need to look at the fucking retards that fought over TP. Wait till the food runs out. Yet, my wife does not comprehend why I have utter disdain for 98 percent of the public.


----------



## AWP (Aug 28, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> View attachment 40409


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 28, 2022)

Muppet said:


> But, you just need to look at the fucking retards that fought over TP.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2022)

Muppet said:


> But, you just need to look at the fucking retards that fought over TP. Wait till the food runs out. Yet, my wife does not comprehend why I have utter disdain for 98 percent of the public.


That was such an interesting case study.

I was in Hawaii when *the great TP shortage of 2020* happened. Great example of market structures and the power of fear, and FOMO.

There was PLENTY of TP to go around.  The companies weren't making less of it, and we weren't shitting ourselves more than we were before the pandemic.

The problem was that people starting panic-buying and hoarding.  Others noticed this, and for fear of missing out, started panicking and panic-buying as well.  This, of course, exacerbated the problem and then toilet paper became a shortage item for everyone.
It got so bad that as a lieutenant colonel in the Army I had to get in line outside an Air Force Commissary on a specific day, at a specific time, to buy one-count-them-one package of TP rolls.

If everyone would have just gone along with their normal level of consumption, there would have been plenty for everyone.  But because people are stupid, and easy to scare, we all had to experience it.  Everyone, that is, except for those who caused the crisis in the first place and bought way, way more TP than they needed.


----------



## Topkick (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> But because people are stupid, and easy to scare, we all had to experience it.


So much this. A lot of this going on these days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That was such an interesting case study.
> 
> I was in Hawaii when *the great TP shortage of 2020* happened. Great example of market structures and the power of fear, and FOMO.
> 
> ...


We can all blame Fauci and Birx.  Trump had it right. But wasn't politically in a place where he could have said "eff it" either.

As seen by the wild amount of school boards that shut down their schools and went remote for two years...and also the FBI who investigate concerned parents, created a threat classification, and task force.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> We can all blame Fauci and Birx.  Trump had it right. But wasn't politically in a place where he could have said "eff it" either.
> 
> As seen by the wild amount of school boards that shut down their schools and went remote for two years...and also the FBI who investigate concerned parents, created a threat classification, and task force.


America did get boned in the COVID debacle, but people were dumb, panicky, and easily-leg long before we decided to make an unelected bureaucrat, Dr. "I Am Science!!" the highest-paid person in our entire government and for some reason invest god-like reverence for his words of wisdom.  It's our fault for continuing to "follow the science" and "believe the experts" without applying our own critical thinking, and to panic/horde at every hint of alarm.


----------



## Muppet (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> America did get boned in the COVID debacle, but people were dumb, panicky, and easily-leg long before we decided to make an unelected bureaucrat, Dr. "I Am Science!!" the highest-paid person in our entire government and for some reason invest god-like reverence for his words of wisdom.  It's our fault for continuing to "follow the science" and "believe the experts" without applying our own critical thinking, and to panic/horde at every hint of alarm.



This...


----------



## AWP (Aug 28, 2022)

You people are fucking retarded. Dr. Fauci is a saint, a saint I tell you!, and we are all alive today because of his stewardship. We owe him a debt we can never repay...

Shout out to @Marauder06 for using FOMO in a non-gaming context.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> You people are fucking retarded. Dr. Fauci is a saint, a saint I tell you!, and we are all alive today because of his stewardship. We owe him a debt we can never repay...
> 
> Shout out to @Marauder06 for using FOMO in a non-gaming context.


FOMAP--fear of missing ass paper


----------



## AWP (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> FOMAP--fear of missing ass paper



If we ran out of TP I guess the pool would get a workout? idk, kids...


----------



## Topkick (Aug 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> If we ran out of TP I guess the pool would get a workout? idk, kids...


Glad I saved a 20 + year supply of brown t-shirts


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2022)

related:  at the height of Hawaii's toilet paper crisis, a number of my work colleagues and some former students who were now commissioned and on the island came over to my house for dinner.  I specifically told them "no hostess gifts."  Just come over and eat dinner and chill.  We have plenty of flowers already, and all the food we need for dinner, and more bottles of wine than I could ever drink.

One of my former students refused to listen and brought a gift anyway.  Normally that annoys me, because it's failure to follow simple instructions and it's embarrassing to everyone else who did what I told them and didn't bring anything.  

However, his gift was two rolls of like triple-ply Charmin and a tube of Clorox cleaning wipes.

He meant it as a joke, but living with three women and being down to my last half roll of TP, I was quite grateful for his casual disregard of my instructions :)


----------



## JedisonsDad (Aug 28, 2022)

Bidet for the win.

Sitting around with the least itchy butthole, while peasants fought it out in Walmart.


----------



## Kaldak (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> a tube of Clorox cleaning wipes.



Those are not for your butt, Sir.


----------



## Marauder06 (Aug 28, 2022)

Kaldak said:


> Those are not for your butt, Sir.


...now you tell me


----------



## Steve1839 (Aug 28, 2022)

Topkick said:


> Glad I saved a 20 + year supply of brown t-shirts


Dame made me clean out my mismatched sock collection and has been purging my slightly well ventilated t-shirts...fortunately, she tends to stock up on stuff like TP...


----------



## Dame (Aug 28, 2022)

Steve1839 said:


> Dame made me clean out my mismatched sock collection and has been purging my slightly well ventilated t-shirts...fortunately, she tends to stock up on stuff like TP...


You bet your sweet ass I do. 


Wait.


----------



## AWP (Aug 28, 2022)

I hate this thread, especially this page.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> related:  at the height of Hawaii's toilet paper crisis, a number of my work colleagues and some former students who were now commissioned and on the island came over to my house for dinner.  I specifically told them "no hostess gifts."  Just come over and eat dinner and chill.  We have plenty of flowers already, and all the food we need for dinner, and more bottles of wine than I could ever drink.
> 
> One of my former students refused to listen and brought a gift anyway.  Normally that annoys me, because it's failure to follow simple instructions and it's embarrassing to everyone else who did what I told them and didn't bring anything.
> 
> ...



You guys are posh over there if you're giving hostess gifts. We show up with a box of piss or a couple of bottles for the group and off we go. Who needs flowers? You want flowers go outside.


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> You guys are posh over there if you're giving hostess gifts. We show up with a box of piss or a couple of bottles for the group and off we go. Who needs flowers? You want flowers go outside.



We don't live in Hobbit house's, so we have room for inside flowers.


----------



## SpitfireV (Aug 29, 2022)

Can you grow flowers in an igloo can you?


----------



## RackMaster (Aug 29, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Can you grow flowers in an igloo can you?



Not grow but definitely keep them alive for a while.  



> If built right, an igloo can create a difference of about 40oC between its interior and the external environment just through the use of body heat. In a study conducted by Rich Holihan and his colleagues, it was found that inside an igloo, near the bodies of the people, the temperature was around 36oC (310K). In the air surrounding the people, the temperature dropped to almost 16oC (290K), and at the far end near the walls of the igloo, the temperature was around 1oC (275K). Also, if there are more people inside the igloo, it gets even warmer. Even though 16oC or 1oC isn’t a “cozy” temperature, considering that the temperature of arctic terrains can reach a staggering -40oC to -50oC, an igloo does a great job of regulating the temperature. Thus, for people living in sub-zero temperatures, an igloo makes for a toasty abode.



How Does An Igloo Keep You Warm?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 31, 2022)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> You guys are posh over there if you're giving hostess gifts. We show up with a box of piss or a couple of bottles for the group and off we go. Who needs flowers? You want flowers go outside.



As a general courtesy you would present flowers to the CO'S wife (or daughter if the CO was divorced or a widower). And you'd give him a bottle of booze.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 1, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> As a general courtesy you would present flowers to the CO'S wife (or daughter if the CO was divorced or a widower). And you'd give him a bottle of booze.


VMI taught you well.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 1, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> As a general courtesy you would present flowers to the CO'S wife (or daughter if the CO was divorced or a widower). And you'd give him a bottle of booze.


 Oh great cool thanks.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 1, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> Oh great cool thanks.


Flowers and booze are typical, but depending on the individual and your relationship with him/her, there is a wide range of things you could bring.  For example, if your host is Mormon (or an alcoholic) perhaps you don't bring that bottle of good Israeli red over to their house.  Also, sometimes hosts of large gatherings coordinate what guests should bring (you bring the chips, you bring the plates, etc.) for bigger, less formal gatherings and in those cases hostess gifts are not really necessary either.

In addition to not wanting to clutter up my liquor cabinet with more bottles of wine that I will never drink, I also remember kind of agonizing over what I should bring to a senior officer's house, especially when I was younger and didn't have a lot of money and didn't fully understand how these things work.  Telling people specifically not to bring anything over saves them time and money, and maybe a little anxiety, and reduces my clutter   Win-win.

If they're friends of mine, though, all bets are off.  If any of you clowns show up at my house, you better bring The Glenlivet with you.  ;)


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2022)

SpitfireV said:


> You guys are posh over there if you're giving hostess gifts. We show up with a box of piss or a couple of bottles for the group and off we go. Who needs flowers? You want flowers go outside.



In Navy officer school we had a 3 day class on etiquette.  Three.  Days.  I imagine all the branches are similar.

I managed to get a pic of one class.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> In Navy officer school we had a 3 day class on etiquette.  Three.  Days.  I imagine all the branches are similar.
> 
> I managed to get a pic of one class.
> 
> View attachment 40450


That's some next-level stuff right there.  I don't remember that in ROTC or the Basic Course.

At West Point there is a fulltime position for Cadet Hostess.  One of her many functions is to teach etiquette and manners to the cadets.  They also have high-end whiskey taskings and wine taskings.  I went to one the last time I was stationed here.  You know, to supervise.  Yeah, that's it.  To supervise.  ;)


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That's some next-level stuff right there.  I don't remember that in ROTC or the Basic Course.
> 
> At West Point there is a fulltime position for Cadet Hostess.  One of her many functions is to teach etiquette and manners to the cadets.  They also have high-end whiskey taskings and wine taskings.  I went to one the last time I was stationed here.  You know, to supervise.  Yeah, that's it.  To supervise.  ;)



One must simply supervise these events; and what kind of leader are you if you do not lead from the front??

It was pretty amusing.  That lady, Mrs. Yonke, had a dripping southern accent, very sarcastic and witty, and used impeccable English.  We had a handful of functions in which to practice, all at the O club at Pensacola.  The whole 'course' was a nice break from the regular ol' Navy BS, but most interestingly showed insight into that good ol' Navy caste system of yesteryear.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2022)

Speaking of COVID....my latest vax exemption request (2022-2023) was approved.  So I do not have to get a vax.  HOWEVER, now that I am going on chemo and my immune system is going to take a whack, I may reconsider at some point.  Now I will have to be one of those go-out-everywhere-masked people.


----------



## compforce (Sep 1, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> If any of you clowns show up at my house, you better bring The Glenlivet with you.  ;)


I've been saving this bottle for the invitation...  Wine gets better as it ages, right?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 1, 2022)

Just your government at work!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565417529685704705
ETA: some more fun stuff.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565371736744345601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565463804363870211


----------



## Dame (Sep 1, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> If any of you clowns show up at my house, you better bring The Glenlivet with you.  ;)


Sir, we don't drink scotch but we keep a bottle of TGL-18 here for you and the Troll.


----------



## Steve1839 (Sep 1, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> That's some next-level stuff right there.  I don't remember that in ROTC or the Basic Course.


Can't speak for ROTC, but when I was indentured as a platoon trainer at the Basic Course, etiquette was not in the POI...we did have an hour or so prior to the Dining In, but that was it...we did have both informal and formal receptions, each preceded by a briefing...that was in 1984-1985...


----------



## Steve1839 (Sep 1, 2022)

Dame said:


> Sir, we don't drink scotch but we keep a bottle of TGL-18 here for you and the Troll.


We have Talisker's and Balvenie double wood, as well. And I take a dram from time to time...


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2022)

Steve1839 said:


> Can't speak for ROTC, but when I was indentured as a platoon trainer at the Basic Course, etiquette was not in the POI...we did have an hour or so prior to the Dining In, but that was it...we did have both informal and formal receptions, each preceded by a briefing...that was in 1984-1985...



An hour? Push posh. How can you possibly understand how to properly wear your white gloves and present your calling card with an hour's instruction?


----------



## Dame (Sep 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> An hour? Push posh. How can you possibly understand how to properly wear your white gloves and present your calling card with an hour's instruction?


Right?! I just ordered him white tie evening wear. I shall be conducting the class myself. (Feel sorry for my poor hubby.)


----------



## Steve1839 (Sep 1, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> An hour? Push posh. How can you possibly understand how to properly wear your white gloves and present your calling card with an hour's instruction?


When I went through the basic course, we didn't even have a dining in or receptions...when I was a trainer, the basic course was trying to be pretty lean in extracurricular stuff. An hour for a dining in wasn't that much less than we had for land navigation. We had about a half day refresher on site, prior to sending the students out on a diagnostic course.  The expectation was that the commissioning sources had done their job and prepared the new officers for what they were going to encounter in the course. We then conducted remedial training on weekends for the 50-70% of LTs that flunked the diagnostic test. That was very popular with the trainers, as we had to sacrifice our weekends until the no-gos passed another diagnostic test or perhaps managed to pass the first record test...in a typical 17 week cycle, we had an average of two or three weekends off.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 1, 2022)

Steve1839 said:


> When I went through the basic course, we didn't even have a dining in or receptions...when I was a trainer, the basic course was trying to be pretty lean in extracurricular stuff. An hour for a dining in wasn't that much less than we had for land navigation. We had about a half day refresher on site, prior to sending the students out on a diagnostic course.  The expectation was that the commissioning sources had done their job and prepared the new officers for what they were going to encounter in the course. We then conducted remedial training on weekends for the 50-70% of LTs that flunked the diagnostic test. That was very popular with the trainers, as we had to sacrifice our weekends until the no-gos passed another diagnostic test or perhaps managed to pass the first record test...in a typical 17 week cycle, we had an average of two or three weekends off.



To be fair, a lot of my commentary is tongue in cheek. The Navy was holding on to anachronistic etiquette and traditions of naval officers which were deeply embedded in a significant caste system in the Navy.  It was almost as if being a good Naval officer and warrior was actually rooted into which spoon or fork you used.

I get that in the Marine Corps Basic School they have a little more education in these things, but an OCS it is all about drilling down to who has the best skills and talents to be a warrior and a leader.  Not the case in the Navy (then, I don't know about now).


----------



## Andoni (Sep 1, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> or an alcoholic) perhaps you don't bring that bottle of good Israeli red over to their house.


Well shit.🤦‍♀️


----------



## Muppet (Sep 1, 2022)

So, no box of wine from state store?


----------



## Dame (Sep 1, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, no box of wine from state store?


🤦‍♀️


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 2, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, no box of wine from state store?


I don't want to make it sound like I would turn it down.  Boone's Farm is totally my level of sophistication.  I just don't like to drink wine much anymore if I can get something fancier... like Southern Comfort ;)

The only reason I like The Glenlivet and Macalan is for sentimental reasons related to the generosity of my UK suitemate during one of my deployments to Iraq.


----------



## AWP (Sep 2, 2022)

COVID is still a thing? Man, I haven't seen a threatening autocratic press conference in months. I thought COVID was gone. Fuck, guess I had a cold last month with that high fever. Sure glad I didn't travel by airplane...


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 8, 2022)

To pile on to @ThunderHorse 's good post... things might get interesting with these emails. More so because there will be a full month to remind everyone how the administration treated free speech and colluded with big tech. 

Feds reeling from new vax study, lawsuits on social media censorship and COVID stat manipulation


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> To pile on to @ThunderHorse 's good post... things might get interesting with these emails. More so because there will be a full month to remind everyone how the administration treated free speech and colluded with big tech.
> 
> Feds reeling from new vax study, lawsuits on social media censorship and COVID stat manipulation


I was in NYC today and stopped in to get some Chik Fil A (because, reasons) and the entire staff is wearing masks. 

Seriously, WTF.  Your employees’ health is in FAR more danger from the unmasked crazy drug addicted woman outside shaking down  everyone “a dollar to buy tampons” than it is from anything a patron brings into the store.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> To pile on to @ThunderHorse 's good post... things might get interesting with these emails. More so because there will be a full month to remind everyone how the administration treated free speech and colluded with big tech.
> 
> Feds reeling from new vax study, lawsuits on social media censorship and COVID stat manipulation



The study is a real interesting meta-analysis. The findings, from the article;



> Led by University of Washington applied medical anthropologist Kevin Bardosh, the study estimates that at least 22,000 "previously uninfected adults aged 18-29 must be boosted with an mRNA vaccine to prevent one Covid-19 hospitalisation" while causing 18-98 "serious adverse events," based on CDC and "sponsor-reported" data.
> 
> These include 1.7 to 3 "booster-associated myocarditis cases in males, and 1,373 to 3,234 cases of grade ≥3 reactogenicity which interferes with daily activities," to prevent one hospitalization, the study found. "Given the high prevalence of post-infection immunity, this risk-benefit profile is even less favourable."



I dug into the study, because there are lots of quotation marks in there and I wanted to see them in context.

To paraphrase the study;

It assumes the students have already received vaccinations, and will be getting the Pfizer booster.

It uses Pfizer's data on how many "serious adverse events" were directly tied to the vaccine. a SAE is a reaction that causes hospitalization, disability/incapacity, or death.

Reactogenicity rates are based on self reported numbers. Reactogenicity (I've learned) means the crappy feeling you get after a vaccine. Grade 3 is when it puts you on your ass the day after.

The myocarditis rate comes from the CDC's Vaccine Safety Datalink numbers, which actively tracks reactions to vaccines.

The "booster to prevent hospitalization rate" comes from the CDC.

So to "follow the science", the FDA should pull the Pfizer booster and the CDC should recommend no boosters for those not in high risk groups. 

Sure, that'll happen.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 8, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The study is a real interesting meta-analysis. The findings, from the article;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re cancelled. Sorry, that’s the precedent for actually reading and following the data. Take your stuff and go to the front door of the internet; it’s an Ask Jeeves site that just has ‘naked bobs’ in the search window.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 8, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The study is a real interesting meta-analysis. The findings, from the article;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is why I got the J&J...


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 8, 2022)

I didn’t understand a lot of the words in that study, but I don’t need to in order to state this incontrovertible fact:  that.shit.didn’t.work. 

My dad and I were both fully Pfizered.  Both of us got COVID anyway (me a few months before him).  Dad got it so bad they Red Cross messaged me home because they thought he was going to die.  

The whole selling point was that this vax was going to keep us from getting COVID.  Then after everyone started getting it anyway, it was “well it would have been worse without the jab.”  Really?  Because the only thing worse for my dad would have literally been dying. 

Dad didn’t die because he’s hard core old school SOF and took care of himself after he retired. He rolled the vax dice for no reason. 

My mother and my sister didn’t get vaccinated and they also didn’t get COVID.  The vax didn’t give me COVID, but it also didn’t keep me from getting it. 

We destroyed the world’s economy and our education system and further divided our country for no reason.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 8, 2022)

My organization is very iron-fisted when it comes to mandatory anything; No compliance, take a hike.  But anyone and everyone who's putting in for a waiver is getting approved. I don't feel the same robust attitude towards a mandatory vaccination as I have seen with other mandatory things.  I feel that they see the handwriting on the wall.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> We destroyed the world’s economy and our education system and further divided our country for no reason.


I “liked” your post. But where I struggle is , did we do the best we could with the information we had at the time?

I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sep 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I didn’t understand a lot of the words in that study, but I don’t need to in order to state this incontrovertible fact:  that.shit.didn’t.work.
> 
> My dad and I were both fully Pfizered.  Both of us got COVID anyway (me a few months before him).  Dad got it so bad they Red Cross messaged me home because they thought he was going to die.
> 
> ...



The bolded part is the worst thing about the vaccine messaging.

There are very few vaccines that 100% no shit are supposed to stop you from getting the disease in question.

The WHO only tracks 31 that do that in humans.

The media and government spokespeople ran with that "90%+ efficacy rate" (in trials) without ever contextualizing that.

Most vaccines are not able to fully prevent infection, they're just able to prevent the worst symptoms.
It's the reason you can still get the flu even if you get the vaccine; the vaccine is supposed to just prep your body's defenses to make it more mild.

ETA: Looking at the death/hospitalization rates for COVID, it actually is pretty analogous to the flu.

Deaths and hospitalizations for COVID spike in January/February before falling off.


Ooh-Rah said:


> I “liked” your post. But where I struggle is , did we do the best we could with the information we had at the time?
> 
> I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.



For me, that line is right about when vaccination became readily available to all adults. So around May 2021.

By that point, we'd learned how to better care for those hospitalized by it and had better understand of transmissions vectors and steps to help mitigate that.

People forget that COVID "wasn't that bad" precisely because nothing was functioning normal.

Prior to lockdowns we had around 2k deaths a day. When lockdowns started lifting in early 2021 in was 3k.
Imagine the economic impact had we attempted to operate "as is" when it first got here.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 8, 2022)

Ivermectin Works...we had a cure all Along.  

Ivermectin: The Truth


----------



## Teufel (Sep 9, 2022)

Just found out today that I have COVID round two. Thought it was a lingering cold. Tested because i was supposed to travel to Japan tomorrow.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I “liked” your post. But where I struggle is , did we do the best we could with the information we had at the time?
> 
> I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.



I say nope. But it would have taken a president with Huevos bigger than Trump to sack Fauci's ass and say fuck it, full speed ahead and actually cut off China. When travel was "suspended" hundreds of flights were still occurring.  

And also, the medical industrial complex, teachers unions, all vehemently against actually doing their damn jobs.

But also, humans are a social people. Worl leaders damaged their economies but also their people.  Thank God for Republican governors.

If you look at my posts I've been relatively consistent on my points if view. I think.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 9, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I “liked” your post. But where I struggle is , did we do *the best we could with the information we had at the time?*
> 
> I don’t know where the line is between “shoulda known better” and Monday morning quarterback.



The bolded part was my attitude for a long time. I even talked to my students about it--"this is my first global pandemic too... I think people are just trying to do the best they can." But over time, it became clear to me that the people who were saying "follow the science" actually meant "follow the _*political*_ science," i.e. it's all about money, power, and control.  We all knew very early that masks were ineffective but we made everyone wear them anyway (and still make people wear them, wtf Chik Fil A).  We all knew very early that children are literally at the lowest possible risk of contracting COVID and that distance learning as a default setting is a disaster, but we made them stay home, and then get vaxxed, and mask up on top of it all when they were finally allowed to come back anyway. 

Even exploring the possibility of a lab leak and/or a Chinese .gov cover-up would bring cries of "muh racizms!!" and would get people formal and long-lasting social media sanctions.  In fact, I don't remember it becoming kosher to talk about the possibility of a Wuhan lab leak until Bill Maher started doing it.

We made people social distance, restricting them even from going to the beach, or being on the water alone, and we shut down our economy even though we didn't need to.  Then we gave people so many government handouts that many of them still haven't gone back to work.  We allowed the Teachers Union to dictate national COVID policy. So many people in health care got fired over not wanting the (ineffective and experimental) vaccine that there was such a shortage that they had to bring the military in, and force COVID-positive (even though they had the vax!) health care workers to come in.   So many people left the military, got kicked out over, or refused to join in the first place because of the jab requirement.  And we left restrictions in place far, far after we knew it was either ineffective, or worse overall than the possibility of contracting the disease.  And those policies STILL haven't been rolled back, even though there are still shortages in both health care and the military, and we know the vaccine doesn't work.

We had the information.  We had it for a long time.  We're where we are as a nation today because of what people decided to do with the information.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 9, 2022)

I struggle with this, because I was 'front lines' before we even had a grasp on what this was and have seen a huge variation of attitudes and responses.

I think the initial response was born out of righteous fear (AKA, "millions are gonna die!").  I get that.  I also get the desire to fast-track a vaccine.  But when so many people, experts and SMEs, came out and said "this isn't working, we oughta think about XXXXXX" and were at the very least ignored and and the very most railroaded and shamed and fired, with the government digging in its' heels every time something was disproven, it became about politics and not medicine; certainly not about public health.

I have said as much where I work, and while I don't possess the credentials and stature to be made a pariah or martyr, I am often seen as a unicorn and one to be ignored, almost like Don Quixote.  But more and more people like me are speaking up.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I struggle with this, because I was 'front lines' before we even had a grasp on what this was and have seen a huge variation of attitudes and responses.
> 
> I think the initial response was born out of righteous fear (AKA, "millions are gonna die!").  I get that.  I also get the desire to fast-track a vaccine.  But when so many people, experts and SMEs, came out and said "this isn't working, we oughta think about XXXXXX" and were at the very least ignored and and the very most railroaded and shamed and fired, with the government digging in its' heels every time something was disproven, it became about politics and not medicine; certainly not about public health.
> 
> I have said as much where I work, and while I don't possess the credentials and stature to be made a pariah or martyr, I am often seen as a unicorn and one to be ignored, almost like Don Quixote.  But more and more people like me are speaking up.


What was an eye-opener to me was the volume of med professionals who were refusing it, to the point of losing their jobs over it.  These are people who are in the profession, and who are most likely to get exposed to it because of that, and they were still balking.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> What was an eye-opener to me was the volume of med professionals who were refusing it, to the point of losing their jobs over it.  These are people who are in the profession, and who are most likely to get exposed to it because of that, and they were still balking.


What you were discussing is the one part that has me resentful, I probably would’ve not gotten the vaccine, but the company I work for made it very clear that without the vaccine I would not be bonus eligible and my company pays “really good“ bonuses.

Health concerns aside, I could not financially afford to not to get the vaccine.


----------



## compforce (Sep 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> and still make people wear them, wtf Chik Fil A


I live in Atlanta, home of Chik-Fil-A and they aren't forcing wearing them here.  They are optional.  Must be a local thing.



> Are Chick-fil-A Team Members wearing face coverings?​Where state and local regulations allow, face coverings inside the restaurant are now optional for fully vaccinated Team Members. Additionally, based on recent findings that the rate of outdoor transmission is low, all Team Members have the option to work without a face covering outdoors. Team Members will continue to complete mandatory health screenings before each shift, along with frequent handwashing, and will keep a face covering on hand at all times should a customer express discomfort.


https://www.chick-fil-a.com/serving-you-safely/faqs


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 9, 2022)

compforce said:


> I live in Atlanta, home of Chik-Fil-A and they aren't forcing wearing them here.  They are optional.  Must be a local thing.
> 
> 
> https://www.chick-fil-a.com/serving-you-safely/faqs



I have two sons who work for CFA; one, full-time.  Masking is indeed a local thing, and each store is encouraged to follow the local jurisdiction policies/protocols.  No CFAs where we live are wearing masks.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 9, 2022)

compforce said:


> I live in Atlanta, home of Chik-Fil-A and they aren't forcing wearing them here.  They are optional.  Must be a local thing.
> 
> 
> https://www.chick-fil-a.com/serving-you-safely/faqs


It is entirely possible that it's an NYC requirement and not a Chik Fil A one, I hadn't considered that.  I didn't go into any other restaurants when I was in town (CFA or bust!!) and there are no CFAs near where I live, so no basis for comparison.


----------



## compforce (Sep 9, 2022)

Oh Look....   Actual Science... 



> In a major breakthrough in the battle with the COVID-19 pandemic, Tel Aviv University researchers have isolated two antibodies that neutralize all known strains of COVID-19 – including Omicron – with up to 95% efficiency and will strengthen the immune systems of people at risk.





> “According to our findings, the effectiveness of the first antibody, TAU-1109, in neutralizing the Omicron strain is 92% and in neutralizing the Delta strain it is 90%. The second antibody, TAU-2310, neutralizes the Omicron variant with an efficacy of 84%, and the Delta variant with an efficacy of 97%,” said Freund.





> The two antibodies, cloned in her Tel Aviv University lab, were sent for tests to check their effectiveness against live viruses in laboratory cultures at the University of California San Diego and against pseudo-viruses in the labs of the Faculty of Medicine of Bar-Ilan University. The results were identical and equally encouraging in both tests.





> “It is, therefore, possible that by using effective antibody treatment, we will not have to provide booster doses to the entire population every time there is a new variant,” Freund concluded.



Scientists find COVID-19 antibodies that can make boosters unnecessary

Encouraging if it isn't fake news...


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 9, 2022)

Out-of-context quote, from the article:



> people are repeatedly infected, even after being vaccinated three times.


----------



## Teufel (Sep 9, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Out-of-context quote, from the article:


That's me! Got my third shot because it was a requirement to bypass quarantine going into Japan. Not sure it did anything for me.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 9, 2022)




----------



## Topkick (Sep 9, 2022)

There was talk some time ago about having kids go to school the entire year. Maybe now would be the time for this. Also, maybe hard focus on core, not on social issues.


----------



## Kaldak (Sep 9, 2022)

Topkick said:


> There was talk some time ago about having kids go to school the entire year. Maybe now would be the time for this. Also, maybe hard focus on core, not on social issues.



You're using logic. How dare you!!!

🙄


----------



## Muppet (Sep 10, 2022)

Biggest fucking scam ever. What started as a pandemic, morphed into virtue signaling, social and political scams.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 11, 2022)

He was right the entire time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568951911084072960


----------



## Muppet (Sep 13, 2022)

Jesus...


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 13, 2022)

Apparently some colleges are still enforcing mask mandates?

Colleges' COVID conundrum: Elite universities mandate masks two years into pandemic, but at what cost?


----------



## AWP (Sep 13, 2022)

Isn't Covid an Ikea bedroom furniture collection?


----------



## Muppet (Sep 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Apparently some colleges are still enforcing mask mandates?
> 
> Colleges' COVID conundrum: Elite universities mandate masks two years into pandemic, but at what cost?



All liberal universities, go figure. Tell me I'm wrong, virtue signaling for the sheep.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Apparently some colleges are still enforcing mask mandates?
> 
> Colleges' COVID conundrum: Elite universities mandate masks two years into pandemic, but at what cost?



How is SDSU in the same group as the rest of those? San Diego and San Diego County ain't been living that life for awhile.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 14, 2022)

Dr. Prasad has been a rational source of information throughout the pandemic.  This is an excellent breakdown of why the new booster is junk and how the "Trust the science" crowd has become nothing but a political tool of Pfizer.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 15, 2022)

"2Pac variant". Fuck me! Lol


----------



## digrar (Sep 16, 2022)

“Looking back, I still can't believe how unprofessional the news media was. So much spin, so few hard facts. All those digestible sound bites from an army of 'experts' all contradicting one another, all trying to seem more 'shocking' and 'in-depth' than the last one. It was all so confusing, nobody seemed to know what to do.”
― Max Brooks, World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 18, 2022)

Marine Corps is pausing separation for for all Marines that hit all the wickets in claiming religious exemption. It will continue separating those who did not hit all the wickets.

So there for context based on the article. 1100 Marines hit all the wickets based on some arbitrary timeline and there are some 2000+ more Marines that applied for the exemption but didn't hit every arbitrary benchmark. Then there are Marines not accounted for in this article that just told the Corps to pound sand. 

COVID-19 dismissals suspended for Marines seeking religious exemptions

You would think the Corps would have a clue and after missing recruitment numbers every month since the end of Spring that maybe it should retain these Marines?🙄


----------



## Dame (Sep 18, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Marine Corps is pausing separation for for all Marines that hit all the wickets in claiming religious exemption. It will continue separating those who did not hit all the wickets.
> 
> So there for context based on the article. 1100 Marines hit all the wickets based on some arbitrary timeline and there are some 2000+ more Marines that applied for the exemption but didn't hit every arbitrary benchmark. Then there are Marines not accounted for in this article that just told the Corps to pound sand.
> 
> ...


Air Force received a mandate from a Federal Judge to halt separations over this COVID insanity. Probably gonna apply to all services.
Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 18, 2022)

Dame said:


> Air Force received a mandate from a Federal Judge to halt separations over this COVID insanity. Probably gonna apply to all services.
> Federal judge temporarily halts Air Force’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate


The stupidity of this is that apparently one injunction for one service doesn't halt the entire DOD's mandate but aggrieved service members of each service all have to sue separately.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 19, 2022)

It’s officially over. He called it.

Biden: 'The pandemic is over'


----------



## AWP (Sep 19, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> It’s officially over. He called it.
> 
> Biden: 'The pandemic is over'



It was over months ago, no one had the balls to admit as much. I’m a cynic so I have to wonder if this is politically motivated, but whatever.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 19, 2022)

His handlers will walk it back. Our lord and savior Fauci will speak on it, it'll be squashed. Nothing to see here, move along to the next manufactured outrage of the week or month.


----------



## RackMaster (Sep 19, 2022)

Why go to the theatre, when you can watch all this nonsense from the comfort of your home.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 20, 2022)

Fucking christ! Lol


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2022)

How about those masks y'all?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571642453320519683


----------



## Marauder06 (Sep 20, 2022)

It appears that the .mil's COVID policies may now be under some scrutiny:
Biden Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin Ignored DOD IG Memo for 3 Months that Alleged Wrongdoing with COVID Mandates


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 20, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> It appears that the .mil's COVID policies may now be under some scrutiny:
> Biden Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin Ignored DOD IG Memo for 3 Months that Alleged Wrongdoing with COVID Mandates


This has been bubbling on a lot of the definitely extremist Instagram accounts I follow... the sheer amount of information they've been able to collect, interpret and lay it all out in one or two threads is insane. The idealist in me thinks that this overwhelming pile of (many times) clear video evidence and black and white malfeasance will finally lead to some break in accountability, that the floodgates will open, and some people will actually get fired. 

The cynic in me, though, has already moved past the inevitable disappointment. 


ThunderHorse said:


> How about those masks y'all?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571642453320519683


YouDontSay.jpg

Great post, sarcasm directed at everyone who thought their cute lil ducky mask was making them a better person than those around them, not you.


----------



## Polar Bear (Sep 20, 2022)

Please lock thread. The president said we are all good now


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 20, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> This has been bubbling on a lot of the definitely extremist Instagram accounts I follow... the sheer amount of information they've been able to collect, interpret and lay it all out in one or two threads is insane. The idealist in me thinks that this overwhelming pile of (many times) clear video evidence and black and white malfeasance will finally lead to some break in accountability, that the floodgates will open, and some people will actually get fired.
> 
> The cynic in me, though, has already moved past the inevitable disappointment.
> 
> ...



I know what you are saying and agree with bullshit masks. A fitted N95 prevented me from getting COVID for sure on multiple occasions. And is just about 100% effective when properly worn. 

One of the scariest parts of the pandemic for me, was our inability to scale production of the most effective means of protection from an airborne viral illness. 

The nihilist in me still sees this as a terrifying demonstration of how to cripple the US and western world with a real dangerous biological agent. Many people have absolutely(and legitimately) lost trust in the public institutions dedicated to public health. I worry in the future, a slow mutating much more deadly biological agent will be a very effective weapon against the US.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How about those masks y'all?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571642453320519683



It's junkie political theater, virtue signaling, plain and simple.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 20, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I know what you are saying and agree with bullshit masks. A fitted N95 prevented me from getting COVID for sure on multiple occasions. And is just about 100% effective when properly worn.
> 
> One of the scariest parts of the pandemic for me, was our inability to scale production of the most effective means of protection from an airborne viral illness.
> 
> The nihilist in me still sees this as a terrifying demonstration of how to cripple the US and western world with a real dangerous biological agent. Many people have absolutely(and legitimately) lost trust in the public institutions dedicated to public health. I worry in the future, a slow mutating much more deadly biological agent will be a very effective weapon against the US.



Agreed on all points. Regarding the N95, yes, agreed, but, don't know how to read this but many of us in medical profession wore fit tested N95s, religiously, stayed home to "slow the curve", hell, many of us wore P100s, deconned properly, all that jazz, still got the OG variant. 

Then, continued to wear proper masking, jabbed up. So, natural immunity that the government refuses to talk about, the jab, proper masks, still careful since my pop is immunocompromised, same with Maria's folks....

Got the Omnicron. Many nurses and docs I know, many are virtue signaling sheep that have faith in our lord and savior Fauci, followed the "rules for the greater good", still got ill, small amount ended up as admissions, even with all of that AND multiple jabs.

It's all a fucking joke bro.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 21, 2022)

Muppet said:


> snippity snipped...
> 
> It's all a fucking joke bro.


This.


TLDR20 said:


> I know what you are saying and agree with bullshit masks.* A fitted N95 prevented me from getting COVID for sure on multiple occasions.* And is just about 100% effective when properly worn.


I made you a meme.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 21, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> It’s officially over. He called it.
> 
> Biden: 'The pandemic is over'


Wait a min...Press Sec. says he didn't actually mean it was over.  Evidently he was distracted while walking around the Detriot car show and apparently just blurts stuff out. 😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572568129821372423


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 21, 2022)

The walk backs on what the president has actually said are disrespectful. Absolutely not commensurate with the office of the president for his underlings constantly telling us what the president MEANT. 

Unreal.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How about those masks y'all?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571642453320519683


I’m no virologist, but wouldn’t antibodies generated by getting vaccinated show up on these tests?  I didn’t see anything on the page saying that they controlled for those proteins.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 22, 2022)

Anybody speak Polish? Lmao. Fucking sick ending though, shame.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 22, 2022)

Searched to see if we had a housing crisis thread and am not sure if this belongs here...but the current inventory crisis was definitely created in part by Government pandemic response and permanent remote work environments. Create anew if necessary. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573033179124203523


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 25, 2022)

Effing white people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573718694340878337


----------



## AWP (Sep 25, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Effing white people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573718694340878337



For some reason I doubt Puerto Rico had this problem.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 25, 2022)

How many lay people were ahead of the government on this? (And by that I mean years ahead)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573847478301884419


----------



## Muppet (Sep 25, 2022)

The fucking government knew, they lied. It's all about compliance and control. Change my mind. It was all a test to see who would collaborate.....

And now we know.


----------



## Totentanz (Sep 25, 2022)

Muppet said:


> And now we know.



And knowing is half the battle.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2022)

Totentanz said:


> And knowing is half the battle.


The other half is violence. In related news...

Roughly 98% of people eligible to receive latest COVID booster have not received one

YEAH NO SHIT GUYS.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> *I’m no virologist*, but wouldn’t antibodies generated by getting vaccinated show up on these tests?  I didn’t see anything on the page saying that they controlled for those proteins.


Well, the dudes in this article are, and they laid out the problems with the Bangladesh mask study- there are a lot besides the one you brought up. 

Second looks: Peer-reviewed research questions mask study, finds hydroxychloroquine benefit

_Just a quick disclaimer for all- I didn't make the study. I am not saying it is or isn't correct. I have looked at the posted studies and I understand what they're saying, but I won't defend it nor do I necessarily care if you disagree with the conclusions- hit up the science nerds that made it. _


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2022)

Muppet said:


> The fucking government knew, they lied. It's all about compliance and control. Change my mind. It was all a test to see who would collaborate.....
> 
> And now we know.


I refuse to believe that to be completely true. 


Especially this part:


Muppet said:


> It was all a test to see who would collaborate.....





Do I believe that the government tries too hard to “protect us from ourselves“? Yes, absolutely.

Do I believe that the government is preparing and testing us to be part of the grand world conspiracy?  Nope. 

Most governments and politicians can barely function and stay out of their own way, much less cooperate with each other to create a one world government.


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Do I believe that the government tries too hard to “protect us from ourselves“? Yes, absolutely.
> 
> Do I believe that the government is preparing and testing us to be part of the grand world conspiracy?  Nope.
> 
> *Most governments and politicians can barely function and stay out of their own way, much less cooperate with each other to create a one world government.*


These are really interesting points. 

To your bolded, I tend to agree, sort of. 

I have evolved to believe in incompetence before conspiracy, however, if we agree that most politicians can barely function and get out of their own way- how do you feel that stacks up to the common strawman argument of, "Do you know how many people it would take to make this a coordinated effort? How many people would need to be involved in something this grand?!"

I agree that a SHITLOAD of politicians are exactly as you characterize- representative of the larger culture they inhabit (not smart or capable)- but wouldn't that mean that a much smaller cohort of malicious actors could gain the same effects simply by manipulating the lower level idiots?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> but wouldn't that mean that a much smaller cohort of malicious actors could gain the same effects simply by manipulating the lower level idiots?


Probably. 

I just can’t wrap my brain around the concept of an organized “one world order” with a dozen secret  leaders sitting around a virtual conference table, pulling all of the strings, moving us to a common goal. 

If I believe that, that I am forcing myself to acknowledge the possibility of other absurd conspiracies, starting with the US Government’s knowledge and/or participation in 9/11.

I just can’t go to those places; so instead I fall back on the belief that sometimes bad things happen and in too many cases, incompetence and pride overrule common sense and rationality. 

Maybe I am one of the sheep, that I am so quick to accuse others of being.


----------



## Muppet (Sep 26, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Probably.
> 
> I just can’t wrap my brain around the concept of an organized “one world order” with a dozen secret  leaders sitting around a virtual conference table, pulling all of the strings, moving us to a common goal.
> 
> ...



I don't think you're sheep bro. I think, as a human, as an American, we want to believe that we have control of the federal and state government. We don't. I do believe that there are crooked bastards playing the strings of the idiot politicians to further an agenda.

Let's think of this. In regards to 2A, Why would any government attempt for so many years to abolish 2A? What are they nervous about? If we are all peaceable citizens, our government would not need to worry. I believe, the reason they are doing so is that, they have other things they want/need to do.

Back to the plague.

They, federal and states, locked everything down, some still advocate doing this, even though it has proven to not work.

They still push masks and vaccines even though, CDC and NIH said most of it is nonsense, sure minimally, it works but not like how they lied and pandered.

Why won't they talk about natural immunity and alternate meds?

If it's not a conspiracy, it seems like it does.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Probably.
> 
> I just can’t wrap my brain around the concept of an organized “one world order” with a dozen secret  leaders sitting around a virtual conference table, pulling all of the strings, moving us to a common goal.
> 
> ...


I think there is a lot of middle ground between a formalized Deep State and no conspiracies at all. A lot. I also don't think you're a sheep. 

We know (or at least the govt has admitted as much) that there have been verified false flags, government funded projects on mind control, clandestine operations within our borders... I guess I am the other side of the same coin we occupy; I look at the same facts that you do, and I tend to believe that yes, bad things happen and people are incompetent. However...

I take it a step further than you do; not only do I believe that people are incompetent and easily led/manipulated, I also believe that there are true malicious actors willing, able and capable of doing the things the conspiracies allege, and some of those mal actors occupy influential parts of the government and business/industry writ large.  

So, when I look at the last two years, it's nearly impossible for me to ignore the data points that had nothing to do with science, protection of the American people, or anything to do with health at all and EVERYTHING to do with controlling populations using "emergencies".  

Either way, I really appreciate you explaining that for me.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2022)

🤔 

Some really smart (and experienced) people in this thread discussing some really difficult concepts to believe. 

I appreciate the overall tone and that most here are doing so with limited rhetoric.  

A lot to think about and consider.


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## RackMaster (Sep 26, 2022)

This isn't the WEF conspiracy but as an entity it had existed for over 50 year's.  It's sole purpose is to influence policy in education, corporate governance, governments at all levels and around the world to reach the exact same end state.  That is literally their reason for existence. 

Now decades of influence has reached a tipping point and the pandemic was an opportunity to expedite their end state.  See The Great Reset.  

Now throw in mindless bureaucracies that follow the words of the parties that keep them fat, left leaning typically.   Same parties that tend to attend WEF meetings, which are in person and not virtual.  

So we have meetings of world leader's and influential people, to change policy to reach some socialist utopia.  Sounds pretty legitimate to me.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> This isn't the WEF conspiracy but as an entity it had existed for over 50 year's.  It's sole purpose is to influence policy in education, corporate governance, governments at all levels and around the world to reach the exact same end state.  That is literally their reason for existence.
> 
> Now decades of influence has reached a tipping point and the pandemic was an opportunity to expedite their end state.  See The Great Reset.
> 
> ...


And it's just as easy as that. All you need is a tech guy or two for promotion (Mark, Jack), a complicit "4th pillar", and a divided population more involved with their ego and id than logic and reason and POOF!

You get locked down in your house to make sure you don't kill grandma.


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## Muppet (Sep 26, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> This isn't the WEF conspiracy but as an entity it had existed for over 50 year's.  It's sole purpose is to influence policy in education, corporate governance, governments at all levels and around the world to reach the exact same end state.  That is literally their reason for existence.
> 
> Now decades of influence has reached a tipping point and the pandemic was an opportunity to expedite their end state.  See The Great Reset.
> 
> ...



Add in the Bilderberg Group. Folks like us are considered extremists because we don't buy the hype.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I refuse to believe that to be completely true.
> 
> 
> Especially this part:
> ...


We let Fauci destroy millions of lives.  If that is because of incompetence, throw the bastards in jail. But alas there will be no accountability and we'll have a generation of people completely effed.


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## AWP (Sep 26, 2022)

*The Cuomo family has entered the chat


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## RackMaster (Sep 26, 2022)

*The Castro/Trudeau family has entered the chat.


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## amlove21 (Sep 27, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> *The Castro/Trudeau family has entered the chat.


It's the Castro family- mom's lil cuban vacation gave us all the gift that keeps on giving. 

In other news- myocarditis in kids?! That's not a thing. Certainly no reason to make an animated video normalizing a condition that has legit never presented itself in any real way in the history of mankind. 

CDC walks back COVID guidance again, finds lasting post-vaccine heart problems in young adults


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## RackMaster (Sep 27, 2022)

Myocarditis is the number 1 reason my boy never got a single shot. They can go fuck themselves.   He got over covid by coughing 3 times, the sniffles for a day and a good night sleep.  I'm not putting him a risk of life altering side effects to his heart.  The mental gymnastics done over these vaccines hurts my fucking melon.


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## amlove21 (Sep 27, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Myocarditis is the number 1 reason my boy never got a single shot. They can go fuck themselves.   He got over covid by coughing 3 times, the sniffles for a day and a good night sleep.  I'm not putting him a risk of life altering side effects to his heart.  The mental gymnastics done over these vaccines hurts my fucking melon.


Same with my boy. The second he got completely asymptomatic "covid", any discussion of the vaccine was off the table. That was 2021.


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## Blizzard (Sep 27, 2022)

Yet, we still have this...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574851242291040262


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## Topkick (Sep 27, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> Yet, we still have this...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574851242291040262



I'm certainly no fan of the current President, or vaccines, but with President Trump so many things were purposely presented out of context that I've learned never to take the first thing I hear seriously. This snippet was presented out of context by the OP. But there is a story here. This administration is still trying to sell you a lemon.


Fact check: Biden comment on COVID-19 vaccines and hurricanes misconstrued


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## Blizzard (Sep 27, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I'm certainly no fan of the current President, or vaccines, but with President Trump so many things were purposely presented out of context that I've learned never to take the first thing I hear seriously. This snippet was presented out of context by the OP. But there is a story here. This administration is still trying to sell you a lemon.
> 
> 
> Fact check: Biden comment on COVID-19 vaccines and hurricanes misconstrued


I don’t think the video was presented out of context - at least not the clip I posted.  No one suggested the vaccine prevents hurricanes - that's absurd.  It's simply assine to discuss Covid vaccines at all in the context of any natural disaster.


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## Topkick (Sep 27, 2022)

Blizzard said:


> I don’t think the video was presented out of context - at least not the clip I posted.  No one suggested the vaccine prevents hurricanes - that's absurd.  It's simply assine to discuss Covid vaccines at all in the context of any natural disaster.


Maybe you're right but absurd is pretty normal these days. Judging by some of the comments it was taken out of context. 
I agree with you that it was ridiculous timing.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 27, 2022)

The Covid vaccine will help you survive natural disasters.


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## AWP (Sep 27, 2022)

It is dumb shit like the president's quote(s) above that have people thinking this is part of some bigger ploy to control the masses, new world order, population control, great resets and the like.

I find conspiracy theories tend to have something like 15-20 percent fact and a whole bunch of bullshit which is why they gain traction. Problem...what's a fact and what's bullshit?

Then, you take "things" like MKULTRA, the Tuskegee Experiment, atomic testing on troops, the Gulf of Tonkin, the crack and cocaine epidemic in the US being supported by the CIA...there are a few cases I guess:
Unethical human experimentation in the United States - Wikipedia

We won't even touch on how the Patriot Act has killed the 4th Amendment.

So, yeah, people are right to distrust their government. Stop buying into the cult of personality, folks.



Polar Bear said:


> The Covid vaccine will help you survive natural disasters.



Natural disasters will help me survive COVID.


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## Muppet (Sep 27, 2022)

AWP said:


> It is dumb shit like the president's quote(s) above that have people thinking this is part of some bigger ploy to control the masses, new world order, population control, great resets and the like.
> 
> I find conspiracy theories tend to have something like 15-20 percent fact and a whole bunch of bullshit which is why they gain traction. Problem...what's a fact and what's bullshit?
> 
> ...


----------



## Muppet (Oct 4, 2022)

So, Maria and I make it out for dinner at Carrabas (Italian) in our AO.

Notice the plexiglass on the booths. Many restaurants do this. No masks in places, though, panic Karen's are still double masking. 

My beef? It's like the fucking useless masks. Walk into a place, to the table, past SITTING patrons, to your table, take mask off. Get up, put mask on.

So, did covid learn to stay over 5/6 feet up when you're standing? Did covid learn to not affect you when you're seated? Does covid know not to jump over plexiglass? Did covid affect bars but not restaurants? Did covid affect mom and pop stores but not big box stores?

It's all a fucking joke. Fucking theatrics for the idiot masses.

At least my PCP doc made masks optional at his office, I'm surprised.


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## RackMaster (Oct 4, 2022)

All that shit is gone here now.


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## Muppet (Oct 4, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> All that shit is gone here now.



Bro, I had GI appt today, large hospital system, refused to wear mask, nothing was said. When I work, I refuse to wear them. I walk into ERs with a pt, half the staff and docs are masks around necks until we show up, masks up. Oh, fuck off. I'll do me. 

And that "you're paid to wear a mask" shit, fuck you. I'm paid to save lives and be nice, not to continue a useless show of theatrics with thin masks that have been proven to not work.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 4, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, Maria and I make it out for dinner at Carrabas (Italian) in our AO.
> 
> Notice the plexiglass on the booths. Many restaurants do this. No masks in places, though, panic Karen's are still double masking.
> 
> ...


Plexiglass that high might be a relic from the 80s to be honest.  Most of that was meant to give you more "privacy".  Anything higher and I'd say leave right away!


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## Muppet (Oct 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Plexiglass that high might be a relic from the 80s to be honest.  Most of that was meant to give you more "privacy".  Anything higher and I'd say leave right away!



It was not there before plandemic. Haven't been there since start.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 4, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, Maria and I make it out for dinner at Carrabas (Italian) in our AO.
> 
> Notice the plexiglass on the booths. Many restaurants do this. No masks in places, though, panic Karen's are still double masking.
> 
> ...


When I was in college I worked at an Outback, Carrabba's culinary cousin ;)  I think those additions are silly for COVID but might actually help with some noise mitigation... our Outback got kind of rowdy from time to time and sometimes got a little hard to hear.


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## RackMaster (Oct 5, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Bro, I had GI appt today, large hospital system, refused to wear mask, nothing was said. When I work, I refuse to wear them. I walk into ERs with a pt, half the staff and docs are masks around necks until we show up, masks up. Oh, fuck off. I'll do me.
> 
> And that "you're paid to wear a mask" shit, fuck you. I'm paid to save lives and be nice, not to continue a useless show of theatrics with thin masks that have been proven to not work.



Medical settings of all sorts are the only place masks are necessary. Fuck, some family medical practices, still refuse to see patients in person.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 7, 2022)




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## ThunderHorse (Oct 8, 2022)

For those of you under 40 that put mRNA in your body.  You should sue the government since you can't sue the pharmaceutical companies since the government made them exempt from litigation. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578524282946457600


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## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Medical settings of all sorts are the only place masks are necessary. Fuck, some family medical practices, still refuse to see patients in person.


I didn't have to wear a mask in order to walk into a hospital to pick up my prescriptions before COVID, why do I have to do it now?


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## pardus (Oct 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I didn't have to wear a mask in order to walk into a hospital to pick up my prescriptions before COVID, why do I have to do it now?


Because a business/individual can dictate what the rules are in their establishments/homes/buildings etc... If it's a public building then that is dictated by the public entity, it's just like a dress code.
Your freedom of choice is to not enter the building.
That's why I haven't been to a public event recently, because I'm not wearing a mask to do it.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> Because a business/individual can dictate what the rules are in their establishments/homes/buildings etc... If it's a public building then that is dictated by the public entity, it's just like a dress code.
> Your freedom of choice is to not enter the building.
> That's why I haven't been to a public event recently, because I'm not wearing a mask to do it.



I don't do much public stuff. When I take patients ti the ER, I don't wear one. Many medics in the area no longer do. It's a bit hypocritical when we walk in, the docs and nurses all have masks around their necks until they see us. Yeah, I know it's the hospital and not the individual but I'm done with the theatrics, brother.


----------



## pardus (Oct 8, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I don't do much public stuff. When I take patients ti the ER, I don't wear one. Many medics in the area no longer do. It's a bit hypocritical when we walk in, the docs and nurses all have masks around their necks until they see us. Yeah, I know it's the hospital and not the individual but I'm done with the theatrics, brother.


I hear you and I agree, but if a place says you have to wear it, you have to do it, you know that. It's actually a major reason why I didn't go back to working in the ER, because it's strictly enforced there.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> Because a business/individual can dictate what the rules are in their establishments/homes/buildings etc... If it's a public building then that is dictated by the public entity, it's just like a dress code.
> Your freedom of choice is to not enter the building.
> That's why I haven't been to a public event recently, because I'm not wearing a mask to do it.


No, private businesses can't dictate their own rules.  That's why people keep getting sued over things like not baking a cake.

And "because it's the dress code" doesn't answer the question.  If it wasn't required before COVID, why is it now?


----------



## pardus (Oct 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> No, private businesses can't dictate their own rules.  That's why people keep getting sued over things like not baking a cake.
> 
> And "because it's the dress code" doesn't answer the question.  If it wasn't required before COVID, why is it now?


Are you sure about that? The business isn't refusing service, they're just saying in order to enter my premises I require everyone to dress/behave the way I say, just like shoes or a shirt in a restaurant, and as it's a free country they can change that as much as they like, when they like.
I'm not agreeing with it, but it's a free country and it's their property, your free choice is to enter or not.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I didn't have to wear a mask in order to walk into a hospital to pick up my prescriptions before COVID, why do I have to do it now?


 I don't. Leave New York.



pardus said:


> Because a business/individual can dictate what the rules are in their establishments/homes/buildings etc... If it's a public building then that is dictated by the public entity, it's just like a dress code.
> Your freedom of choice is to not enter the building.
> That's why I haven't been to a public event recently, because I'm not wearing a mask to do it.



If only businesses were allowed to make choices based on science during the pandemic we wouldn't be so fucked as a country and globally. But the liberal medical industrial complex that really was just the deep state and anti-Trump created the worst mental health crisis of a generation. 

These government entities took down basketball hoops from parks to keep you inside. (The royal you) And to keep people from being people.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 8, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> These government entities took down basketball hoops from parks to keep you inside. (The royal you) And to keep people from being people.



And filled skateparks with dirt...

One of the coolest stories during the plandemic was the kids finding these parks filled with dirt and going home to get their dirt bikes. Lemonade.


----------



## pardus (Oct 8, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> If only businesses were allowed to make choices based on science during the pandemic we wouldn't be so fucked as a country and globally. But the liberal medical industrial complex that really was just the deep state and anti-Trump created the worst mental health crisis of a generation.
> 
> These government entities took down basketball hoops from parks to keep you inside. (The royal you) And to keep people from being people.


Agreed, it was fucked up and I think the entire world lost their collective minds, if you ever want to convince someone of conspiracy theories, there's your golden paper.
However fucked up the Democrats made things and continued things, I do believe that all started under Trump.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> Are you sure about that? The business isn't refusing service, they're just saying in order to enter my premises I require everyone to dress/behave the way I say, just like shoes or a shirt in a restaurant, and as it's a free country they can change that as much as they like, when they like.
> I'm not agreeing with it, but it's a free country and it's their property, your free choice is to enter or not.


the cake example:  Colorado baker fighting ruling over refusal to make gender transition cake

My hospital is on a military base and I'm still on active duty.  There would be severe repercussions for me if I did not comply.

It still does not address the original question, which is why do I have to wear a mask (that has been proven to not work) in a hospital now, when I didn't have to three years ago?


----------



## Topkick (Oct 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> Agreed, it was fucked up and I think the entire world lost their collective minds, if you ever want to convince someone of conspiracy theories, there's your golden paper.
> However fucked up the Democrats made things and continued things, I do believe that all started under Trump.


That shit sandwich was a collective effort,
and I dont blame the feds as much as I blame Governors. My Governor, a Republican, tried to follow every word Fauci puked out until state congress basically stripped his power for anything Covid related.

Ohio lawmakers override DeWine veto, pass limits on governor’s coronavirus powers


----------



## pardus (Oct 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> the cake example:  Colorado baker fighting ruling over refusal to make gender transition cake
> 
> My hospital is on a military base and I'm still on active duty.  There would be severe repercussions for me if I did not comply.
> 
> It still does not address the original question, which is why do I have to wear a mask (that has been proven to not work) in a hospital now, when I didn't have to three years ago?


I'm aware of the cake thing, I think the actions against the store were totally unconstitutional but that's not my lane, that said, I don't think that case is really applicable to the mask thing, that store made an on the spot decision on serving that customer, walk into any fancy restaurant (anything other than Denny's is my benchmark here) wearing nothing but a Borat swimsuit and see what they say to you, and as I said before, if they changed that policy yesterday, and reversed it tomorrow, I'd think that would be their right as a privately owned business, they own it. 
Your situation is quite different I know, I'm a regular at my local VA and it's the same thing, it's infuriating, and the staff members I talk to feel the same, particularly after the CDC said it was no longer necessary.  
As to addressing your original question, let's just say some random officer, maybe nearing retirement, let's also say he (she/they/it/pronoun of choice) was working in something like, well I dunno, a military academy say, decides that uniform of the day on man love thursday, is now PT's with flip flops, and a cadet is all like "Fuck you bro, I didn't have to wear PT's last thursday while engaging in acceptable though questionable activities while wearing flip flops!". Thoughts? (not a case study mind, just thoughts).


----------



## Muppet (Oct 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> the cake example:  Colorado baker fighting ruling over refusal to make gender transition cake
> 
> My hospital is on a military base and I'm still on active duty.  There would be severe repercussions for me if I did not comply.
> 
> It still does not address the original question, which is why do I have to wear a mask (that has been proven to not work) in a hospital now, when I didn't have to three years ago?



Because, it's medical theatrics and optics. The panic Karen's that go to the ERs/hospitals for their perceived emergencies that should be handled via PCP or urgent care will nag and bitch if their RN or MD is not wearing that cloth that the CDC has shown not to work.

Very few folks I know wear properly fitting N95s and I doubt they were fit tested. The last time I was fit tested was over 10 years ago, yet, we wore N95s/greater, still got the plague.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 9, 2022)

pardus said:


> I'm aware of the cake thing, I think the actions against the store were totally unconstitutional but that's not my lane, that said, I don't think that case is really applicable to the mask thing, that store made an on the spot decision on serving that customer, walk into any fancy restaurant (anything other than Denny's is my benchmark here) wearing nothing but a Borat swimsuit and see what they say to you, and as I said before, if they changed that policy yesterday, and reversed it tomorrow, I'd think that would be their right as a privately owned business, they own it.
> Your situation is quite different I know, I'm a regular at my local VA and it's the same thing, it's infuriating, and the staff members I talk to feel the same, particularly after the CDC said it was no longer necessary.
> As to addressing your original question, let's just say some random officer, maybe nearing retirement, let's also say he (she/they/it/pronoun of choice) was working in something like, well I dunno, a military academy say, decides that uniform of the day on man love thursday, is now PT's with flip flops, and a cadet is all like "Fuck you bro, I didn't have to wear PT's last thursday while engaging in acceptable though questionable activities while wearing flip flops!". Thoughts? (not a case study mind, just thoughts).




A lot of this is local jurisdiction BS.  In fall 2021, for my October physical at the PHX Southwest VA in Gilbert I did not have to wear a mask at all.  In fact I only saw a few people wearing masks.  My nurse, my provider, the receptionist, none were wearing masks.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 13, 2022)

Just your government compelling you to be compliant. Move along here now. THE Rona is honestly the second coming of the Patriot Act.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580691127425867778


----------



## Muppet (Oct 14, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Just your government compelling you to be compliant. Move along here now. THE Rona is honestly the second coming of the Patriot Act.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580691127425867778



Are you surprised bro?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 14, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Are you surprised bro?


Me, not at all. Just trying to keep everyone else informed of the bullshit.


----------



## AWP (Oct 14, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Are you surprised bro?


Oh noooooo! I has the shock,


----------



## Muppet (Oct 14, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Me, not at all. Just trying to keep everyone else informed of the bullshit.



I was being facetious. Lol


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 14, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I was being facetious. Lol


Works been pretty shit so my sarcasm is broke.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 14, 2022)

This should be popular here, well, I like it.


----------



## DA SWO (Oct 14, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> No, private businesses can't dictate their own rules.  That's why people keep getting sued over things like not baking a cake.
> 
> And "because it's the dress code" doesn't answer the question.  If it wasn't required before COVID, why is it now?


Bad example, the bakers won the lawsuit per the Supreme Court.
Masks are required in States that let business owners decide, they scared people into submission and those folks will never stop wearing masks.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 14, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Bad example, the bakers won the lawsuit per the Supreme Court.
> Masks are required in States that let business owners decide, they scared people into submission and those folks will never stop wearing masks.


That same baker is dealing with a separate case now. He lost and is now in the appeals process again.

Scardina v. Masterpiece Cakeshop


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## amlove21 (Oct 14, 2022)

Real question. 

@TLDR20 now that we know Pfizer did zero testing on transmission and fielded this vaccine which causes 84% increased cardiomyopathy in males 18-39, do you regret taking it? Furthermore, do you feel regret in championing it? 

For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?


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## TLDR20 (Oct 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Real question.
> 
> @TLDR20 now that we know Pfizer did zero testing on transmission and fielded this vaccine which causes 84% increased cardiomyopathy in males 18-39, do you regret taking it? Furthermore, do you feel regret in championing it?
> 
> For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?



No, no regrets.


----------



## Stretcher Jockey (Oct 15, 2022)

Yes and no. I believe the vaccine was a complete rouse pushed on us on false pretenses from the manufacturer. How much of these issues did our senior leadership know about? Were they just told to keep their mouth shut and follow orders from the SecDef? Or did they actually know about the lack of testing and the issues the vaccines caused before mandating it for the forces? I haven't seen much info on how much was known by military leaders, so I can be convinced either way. Regardless, pushing out thousands of members over the vaccine was a poor move, imo, and our leaders should be held accountable now knowing they forced members either A) out of a career for political gain or B) forced members to receive an untested vaccine.

Overall I think Covid was overblown, and I think the panic over the vaccine is overblown too. You had a 99.4% (ish) chance of surviving Covid. You also had a 99.5% (ish) chance of not having sequela from the vaccine. Most of us can agree that that Covid sucked for a couple days before it went away and that receiving the vaccine was a complete non-event.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> No, no regrets.



You don't think that's a problem? It's amazing how many educated medical professionals I know, bought this shit, hook, line and sinker. Even with the proof, you all still buy it. Hell, some I know still virtue signal it like is a God damn badge of something.

Military members forced to retire. Friends of mine, lost their jobs because they were forced to take a jab. My body my choice. With respect, no regrets? Folks like you are the reason this nonsense lives on and the government was able to get away with this, you look the other way? If you find this offensive, I don't care. This is the collaborating nonsense that gave government the power.

Fucking sad.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 15, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> No, no regrets.


Would you now, knowing what we know, advise others to get an initial dose? What about a booster?

And thank you for answering; I appreciate the transparency.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 15, 2022)

DA SWO said:


> Bad example, the bakers won the lawsuit per the Supreme Court.
> Masks are required in States that let business owners decide, they scared people into submission and those folks will never stop wearing masks.


Yes, in Colorado. But the baker in Oregon lost and lost their business.



amlove21 said:


> Real question.
> 
> @TLDR20 now that we know Pfizer did zero testing on transmission and fielded this vaccine which causes 84% increased cardiomyopathy in males 18-39, do you regret taking it? Furthermore, do you feel regret in championing it?
> 
> For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?



For a variety of reasons many FOGOs should be in chains. Austin and Milley should be cast out and their lives should be destroyed as much the lives they destroyed by forcing this on a healthy population.



Stretcher Jockey said:


> Yes and no. I believe the vaccine was a complete rouse pushed on us on false pretenses from the manufacturer. How much of these issues did our senior leadership know about? Were they just told to keep their mouth shut and follow orders from the SecDef? Or did they actually know about the lack of testing and the issues the vaccines caused before mandating it for the forces? I haven't seen much info on how much was known by military leaders, so I can be convinced either way. Regardless, pushing out thousands of members over the vaccine was a poor move, imo, and our leaders should be held accountable now knowing they forced members either A) out of a career for political gain or B) forced members to receive an untested vaccine.
> 
> Overall I think Covid was overblown, and I think the panic over the vaccine is overblown too. You had a 99.4% (ish) chance of surviving Covid. You also had a 99.5% (ish) chance of not having sequela from the vaccine. Most of us can agree that that Covid sucked for a couple days before it went away and that receiving the vaccine was a complete non-event.



Everyone on this board knew their was a lack testing. If none of leaders in the DOD knew, including the Trump appointees their head was in the sand. But they were compelled by the orthodoxy of the medical professionals that somehow were given power. So many weak people let this happen, I wouldn't say the current crop are weak so much as I think they are using their power to further their agenda.

Byron just extended the state of Emergency for COVID-19. We are so effed.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 15, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> For a variety of reasons many FOGOs should be in chains. Austin and Miller should be cast out and their lives should be destroyed as much the lives they destroyed by forcing this on a healthy population.


I can't believe more aren't, and I have little to no hope that they will be held accountable.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Would you now, knowing what we know, advise others to get an initial dose? What about a booster?
> 
> And thank you for answering; I appreciate the transparency.


Yes I certainly would. I do not think if someone has had a vaccination schedule and Covid there is reason to continue taking boosters.


----------



## Salt USMC (Oct 15, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Real question.
> 
> @TLDR20 now that we know Pfizer did zero testing on transmission and fielded this vaccine which causes 84% increased cardiomyopathy in males 18-39, do you regret taking it? Furthermore, do you feel regret in championing it?
> 
> For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?


That Florida study is utter nonsense: That Florida “analysis” on COVID vaccines is—you guessed it—total garbage



> Experts roundly dubbed the analysis "utter rubbish," "extremely misleading," and "comically bad." Some called the analysis method "terrible," and one epidemiologist called it "the absolute most batshit study design & analysis plan I have ever seen." Others noted that the conclusion "smells of p-hacking" and data cherry-picking.
> 
> The analysis uses an unusual "alternative" epidemiological study design called a self-controlled case series (SCCS). This is a study design that was initially developed to assess vaccine safety, though not necessarily vaccine-related deaths, as was used for Ladapo's analysis. The study design is legitimate—in that it is an established method that has been used before for similar purposes. But, as experts have pointed out, that doesn't make it the best design, or even a good one.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 15, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> That Florida study is utter nonsense: That Florida “analysis” on COVID vaccines is—you guessed it—total garbage


As were most of the studies that said it would stop transmission.  Or any of the studies that said it would reduce the intensity of the disease once infected.  

Be honest with yourself on this one.  We've conceded our rights to idiots that did more harm to us than good and they will never pay for their crimes.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 16, 2022)

Salt USMC said:


> That Florida study is utter nonsense: That Florida “analysis” on COVID vaccines is—you guessed it—total garbage


Yeah, you know- I think I know 2 things at this point. 

1, playing the “appeal to authority/hurl studies at each other” game is tiresome. You’re not a doctor, a research analyst, or privy to information we all don’t have. I guess I’m supposed to tear down your source? Remind you what these studies told us in the beginning? I honestly don’t care to. Believe whatever news source you want. 

And 2- I don’t believe any news sources. I can look anecdotally and gather imperial evidence in my immediate area and tell you for a fact that there is a large, undeniable occurrence of ‘sudden death for no reason’ in the civilian world and active duty super healthy males in that age range magically presenting with completely idiopathic cardiomyopathies at 38. Guess what they all have in common. 

I learned my lesson when covid came from a bat in a wet market. When it lived on surfaces for days at a time so you had to bleach everything, including your food. When social distancing had studies. When the vaccines stopped transmission. When women’s reproductive cycles most certainly weren’t affected. When your little cloth ducky mask worked. When we needed to vaccinate children. When 8 mice were sufficient to inoculate billions. When natural immunity wasn’t enough. When the initial reports of myocarditis in young men were labeled conspiracy theories. 

If you don’t see the forest for the trees at this point, there isn’t a lot of help I can offer.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 16, 2022)

Our boy who still has a job not taking responsibility for causing one of the greatest mental healthy crises ever: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581668497146273798
Receipts: Fauci: Kids could get ‘infected’ if Florida reopens schools


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## amlove21 (Oct 16, 2022)

Your highest paid federal employee and the sole representative of ‘the science’, everyone.


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## AWP (Oct 16, 2022)

Me when people say the US doesn't conduct medical experiments on its own citizens.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Real question.
> 
> @TLDR20 now that we know Pfizer did zero testing on transmission and fielded this vaccine which causes 84% increased cardiomyopathy in males 18-39, do you regret taking it? Furthermore, do you feel regret in championing it?
> 
> For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?


"Trust the experts."


----------



## Topkick (Oct 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> For the board- do you think that those senior leaders in our military that parroted (and forced) service members in the above age range to take a non-federally approved (EUA) vaccine behind the threat of the gun should be held accountable for their gaslighting, misinformation and the harm they've caused?


We all know Sr. military leaders take orders from civilian leadership and I'm sure there were leaders who pushed back, but then had to suck it up and issue the order. I blame the SECDEF because he is the one who could've made a difference. I don't know Milley's thinking, or what advice he and his team provided but he doesn't get to make the final call on these matters, correct?

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...-authority-to-order-mandatory-covid-19-shots/


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## amlove21 (Oct 16, 2022)

Topkick said:


> We all know Sr. military leaders take orders from civilian leadership. I'm sure there were leaders who pushed back, but then had to suck it up and issue the order. I blame the SECDEF because he is the one who could've made a difference. I don't how what Milley felt, or what advice he and his team provided but he doesn't get to make the final call on these matters, correct?


Milley was too worried about ‘white rage’ and infinitesimally small amounts of ‘extremism’ in his ranks. The (unlawful) order didn’t come from the President, it came from Austin and Milley.


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## Steve1839 (Oct 16, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "Trust the experts."


Ex is a has-been, spurt is a drip under pressure...heard that in the Q Course, so it must be gospel...


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## Topkick (Oct 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Milley was too worried about ‘white rage’ and infinitesimally small amounts of ‘extremism’ in his ranks. The (unlawful) order didn’t come from the President, it came from Austin and Milley.


Agreed. I think your question for the board was basically "Do you think military leaders should be held accountable." Its a great question. No respect for Milley, but how would you hold uniformed officers accountable? The order comes from the SECDEF and whether you agree with it or not, once the boss says move out and draw fire, you do it. This is on the civilian leadership and even though careers were destroyed, they themselves will go on to retire fat and never be held accountable. The R's are promising to get to the bottom of it , hope they do, but its likely just another election year tactic.


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## amlove21 (Oct 16, 2022)

@Topkick Hard disagree. Super hard. Always respectfully and nothing personal. 

When the boss says ‘move out’ and that order is immoral, unethical, illegal or stupid, it’s your duty to say ‘no’. Not a good idea, not what you think is right- your duty. This was not a lawful order, simply on the EUA issue. As of right this second, no FDA approved vaccines exist at my home station for vaccinations. No DDA approved vaccines existed downrange when they threatened my team with sending them home, either. One of the best officers I worked for just had his final out Wednesday over his very legit religios exemption. 

Milley didn’t do that and hasn’t even as new evidence has presented itself. This isn’t a political issue; it’s an issue of good order and discipline. 

It was Miley’s job to stand up and say no. He didn’t, and it’s apparent he’s politically motivated and compromised. That’s wrong.


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## Topkick (Oct 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> @Topkick Hard disagree. Super hard. Always respectfully and nothing personal



I don't think we disagree on principle. In my experience, its just reality. Careerists at that level didn't get there by disagreeing with the boss.


----------



## AWP (Oct 16, 2022)

I think it was GEN Johnson, the Army Chief of Staff at the beginning of the Vietnam War who later said he wished he had resigned at the beginning of the war. He thought he could do more for his soldiers by remaining in uniform, but over time he regretted not resigning when he knew the war to be lost.

Our leaders have options, they choose not to exercise those options.

ETA: a better source than my memory.
https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/History/Vietnam/Vietnam_1960-1968_P002.pdf



> President Johnson’s decision against mobilization rendered useless much of the planning the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Services had done toward meeting the 44-battalion request. Secretary McNamara announced the decision to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Service secretaries on 24 July and laid out a plan to provide the forces without mobilization. The Joint Chiefs were dismayed by this development, which they knew would slow down the deployment of the requested forces, cause long-term deterioration of readiness in their Services, and degrade the United States’ ability to respond to other contingencies. Nevertheless, individually and collectively, the Joint Chiefs of Staff supported their Commander in Chief; they defended his policy in administration councils and meetings with Congressional leaders. At the 27 July NSC meeting, for example, General Wheeler remained silent when the President asked for objections to his plan. General Johnson, who would see the Army nearly wrecked by the attempt to wage war without mobilization, eventually considered resigning in protest. In the end, he joined the other Chiefs in acquiescence—a decision he later characterized as “the worst, the most immoral” of his career.49


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## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Something to ponder


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581907699955924992


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581701182044614656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581542571599273984


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580388196545753091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580790324858757120


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Just for some background, I was an ER technician in New York before and during the first six months of the Covid-19 pandemic. I discovered Dr Seheult’s daily briefs on Medcram (YouTube) and watched them most days, they were a fantastic resource and kept me more informed and up-to date than what I was getting from the hospital I worked at. The Dr gave the daily updated science and nothing more besides his experience working daily with Covid patients. 
I found it to be an excellent resource, that helped me immeasurably.  
My .02c


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580610155015680001


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 17, 2022)

I’d present a whole bunch of evidence to the contrary; but you’re not allowed to have evidence to the contrary. That will get you banned, cancelled and threatened. 

But sweet tweets.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I’d present a whole bunch of evidence to the contrary; but you’re not allowed to have evidence to the contrary. That will get you banned, cancelled and threatened.
> 
> But sweet tweets.


Don’t be silly man, do it. We don’t learn if we don’t discuss and present evidence.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Oct 17, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> That will get you banned, cancelled and threatened.


Not here, not anymore. 

Speak your peace.  Hell, I learn more here by accident than anywhere else by design.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> Don’t be silly man, do it. We don’t learn if we don’t discuss and present evidence.


It was more of a referendum on what we discussed earlier; I'll expound.

I spent a lot of time (a lot) researching, having discussions, and trying to get to a place where I can still have a valuable conversation about this shit over the last two years. I had friends that worked at "COVID ground zero" in NYC for months when they were "using coolers for the dead"; I was engaged and active as a "senior medic" inside my lane and command; I was also at the tactical level and dealt with a lot of stuff. I won't bore you- but after 2 years, 3 continents, countless hours of research and meetings and symposiums and zoom calls and trying to be better, I came to a realization. 

This is no longer a scientific discussion, it's ideological. It's a scramble to the "appeal to authority high ground," all the while tearing down each other because of quite obvious political bias. One side is most certainly being suppressed by the larger medical structure, aided by big tech, as an action arm of the government. All in the name of "preventing misinformation." The guy that invented MRNA technology brings up very real concerns on the Joe Rogan podcast, and the machine comes after him. "He's a hck!" the pundits on MSNBC claimed. Joe Rogan himself was taking horse dewormer, only to have the CDC come out (quietly, as always) and say that yeah, maybe off label Ivermectin is good. Oh, and monoclonal antibodies, too. Any doctors who speak out are silenced and their character assassinated. No matter if it turns out they were right or not. Member this? No lockdowns, COVID death rates exaggerated. That's what they said from looking at the evidence. We all realize these are truths now. 

We wield tweets from blue-check doctors as if every day is our "mic drop" moment. It essentially havin an argument in your shower where you win every time, except you do it on the internet in front of people.

So no more studies from me. No more back and forth with "Your study is bunk NO YOUR STUDY IS BUNK NO YOUR SOURCE ISN'T VALID." I played that game from the tactical to the strategic level. 

I am not making any claims that aren't out there. If you want to look at the veracity of my claim, google it, and make your own decision. 

I will just continue to hold this line and wait a tick. If history shows us anything, it's that I'll be correct in 12-18 months.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> It was more of a referendum on what we discussed earlier; I'll expound.
> 
> I spent a lot of time (a lot) researching, having discussions, and trying to get to a place where I can still have a valuable conversation about this shit over the last two years. I had friends that worked at "COVID ground zero" in NYC for months when they were "using coolers for the dead"; I was engaged and active as a "senior medic" inside my lane and command; I was also at the tactical level and dealt with a lot of stuff. I won't bore you- but after 2 years, 3 continents, countless hours of research and meetings and symposiums and zoom calls and trying to be better, I came to a realization.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I guess I missed the referendum thing, whatever that was.
I'm not sure that I agree that there isn't a scientific discussion to be had, science by it's very nature is never ending, but the science has certainly been hijacked by politics/ideology in one of the more disturbing/disgusting displays of a power-grab that I've had the misfortune to experience. Fuck the mandates. I lived the whole ER, bodies in the coolers thing in NY, then went on to deploy for a while as the NCOIC of a covid isolation facility in Kuwait, it burnt me out, and I just turned my back on it all (covid), and went on with my life as normally as I could, so I _think_ I kind of understand where you're at, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.


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## AWP (Oct 17, 2022)

25YO me would never believe I could look back on a Bill Clinton presidency and consider it a part of the "good old days." Seriously. As broken as that presidency was, and maybe I'm projecting some baseless hope, but I can't imagine COVID in '98 would be handled the same as COVID in 2020.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

I went to an academic event at Yale last weekend.  The COVID-related requirements were as follows:


> In alignment with Yale’s current event guidelines, we are requiring all guests to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19. *Additionally, we encourage guests to self-test on Saturday morning. If you test positive or feel unwell in any way, we ask that you refrain from attending the event. *Yale event staff will have masks and hand sanitizer available for all guests, upon request. We thank you for your cooperation.
> 
> Please note that masks will be required Woolsey Hall during programming.



Requiring vaccinations AND masks?  We're really still doing this?? I thought the President said the pandemic was over.  Yeah, but then again he extended the state of emergency another 90 days or whatever.  OK fine, I want to go to this event so I'll play your silly game.

I got to the venue and they have masks for everyone, which is good because most of the sane world stopped acting like masks matter a long time ago and very few people now wear them out in public.

Annoyed, I put on my mask and go into the theater to hear the guest speakers.  I'm not important and many people who were there are, so I sat in the back.  One of the people acknowledged by the MC at the start of the ceremony was... John Kerry.  As people were recognized, they stood and waved to the attendees.  Out of that entire theater, the only person in the audience who was not obediently wearing their stupid little conformity mask was... John Kerry.  I thought that maybe the MC caught him at a time when he had his mask off to take a sip of water or something, but shortly after the event started I saw SEC Kerry get up and walk out, still not wearing a mask.

Now there could be any number of reasons why John Kerry wasn't wearing a mask like all of the rest of us had to.  Perhaps he has a medical condition that precludes it.  Perhaps he wasn't briefed on the requirement by his team.  Perhaps he realized he didn't have a mask, and when I saw him get up and leave the theater, he was going to get one.  I fully recognize my lack of information and my own biases as they relate to this situation.  But for me, that pretty much covered the whole COVID experience:  if  you're rich and powerful, especially if you're a rich and powerful leftist, the rules simply don't apply to you.  The rest of us still have to go through the motions.

There were to large receptions after the formal events, at which I don't recall a single person having on a mask.  So I guess COVID could only get us when we're spread out in a large theater, not when we're literally face to face over good food and a well-stocked open bar.

On an unrelated-to-COVID note, the first speaker at I heard at Saturday's event was Fareed Zakaria.  I had heard him on CNN and seen other talks he gave, but this was the first time I had heard him in person.  I was VERY impressed.  He is an excellent public speaker.  He talked for I think 45 minutes, but it seemed shorter because he was so good, weaving in International Relations theory, history, and current events into an informative, humorous, and appropriate lecture to mark the establishment of the School.  Other than to read a lengthy quote from a poem (I think it was Mort du Arthur?) I didn't notice him look down at his notes a single time.  And as far as I could tell, there was no teleprompter or other visual aid.  Dude is just a good public speaker.  However many tens of thousands of dollars Yale paid him for a couple of hours of his time, it was worth it.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I went to an academic event at Yale last weekend.  The COVID-related requirements were as follows:
> 
> 
> Requiring vaccinations AND masks?  We're really still doing this?? I thought the President said the pandemic was over.  Yeah, but then again he extended the state of emergency another 90 days or whatever.  OK fine, I want to go to this event so I'll play your silly game.
> ...


Sill!? That's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Make it an option for those that feel the need or who are vulnerable, but to mandate that, at this point in time, just shows that education doesn't make you intelligent. Glad you enjoyed the talk, sounds interesting, I haven't been to a good talk in a while now.
I couldn't decide whether to hate or like your post, so you get nothing! lol


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> Sill!? That's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Make it an option for those that feel the need or who are vulnerable, but to mandate that, at this point in time, just shows that education doesn't make you intelligent. Glad you enjoyed the talk, sounds interesting, I haven't been to a good talk in a while now.
> I couldn't decide whether to hate or like your post, so you get nothing! lol


I agree.  If  you think you need to wear a mask to protect yourself or your family, I respect that.  Zero judgment from me.  But the "medical theater" of mandating a vaccination that everyone knows doesn't work, (and then not even asking/checking at the event) and requiring a mask, that everyone knows doesn't work, and then ignoring it when "important" people flaunt the requirement--is just plain stupid.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> Thank you. I guess I missed the referendum thing, whatever that was.
> I'm not sure that I agree that there isn't a scientific discussion to be had, science by it's very nature is never ending, but the science has certainly been hijacked by politics/ideology in one of the more disturbing/disgusting displays of a power-grab that I've had the misfortune to experience. Fuck the mandates. I lived the whole ER, bodies in the coolers thing in NY, then went on to deploy for a while as the NCOIC of a covid isolation facility in Kuwait, it burnt me out, and I just turned my back on it all (covid), and went on with my life as normally as I could, so I _think_ I kind of understand where you're at, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.


I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic. 

Related and simultaneously a hijack- what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they _in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing. _

I am not making that claim; I don't know enough about it yet. But give it a go and start here.

There was a time, not too long ago, when the overwhelming majority of all medical professionals knew- not thought, KNEW- that the way to prevent disease was to bleed it out. This was accepted medical practice, not thousands of years ago- but barely a few hundred. That realization and complete dismantling of "settled science" is what has led me to mistrust any/all of the medical community.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic.
> 
> Related and simultaneously a hijack- what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they _in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing. _
> 
> ...


Another uninformed opinion from me on a subject I know very little about:

But can't we see viruses in a microscope?  And we can see viruses multiple and attack healthy cells and stuff.  Or maybe I've watched "Outbreak" too many times?  ;)

Something is certainly causing the effects of things we attribute to viruses.  The bloodletting was a "cure," which is often harder to identify than a "cause," right?


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I agree.  If  you think you need to wear a mask to protect yourself or your family, I respect that.  Zero judgment from me.  But the "medical theater" of mandating a vaccination that everyone knows doesn't work, (and then not even asking/checking at the event) and requiring a mask, that everyone knows doesn't work, and then ignoring it when "important" people flaunt the requirement--is just plain stupid.


I'm not sure where you're getting the "vaccine doesn't work" from, are you meaning it's not a guarantee to stop getting covid? (the entire subject has be so convoluted now it's hard to know what anyone means anymore).


amlove21 said:


> I appreciate the fact that we don't agree. I value it. I am just not super sure that there is going to be a "valuable conversation" on the topic.
> 
> Related and simultaneously a hijack- *what if I told you that the very idea of germ theory, virology itself, is fucking nonsense? What if I asked you to prove viruses even exist, and I told you that I could point to the earliest experiments and show you they *_*in no way provide definitive proof that viruses are a thing. *_
> 
> ...


I would say that i'm fucking fascinated and I want to know more. I will definitely be looking at your link. Earliest experiments though? I'm going to be open minded though and look.
We still use bleeding (including the application of leeches) for certain medical conditions/injuries, i'm sure you know that. 
There is no such thing as settled science, science is the pursuit of knowledge, which is by the very nature of the universe, ever changing. We don't use bleeding for everything now, because we thought, and tested, and experimented, and said we think we've found something better, and we'll do that until we can come up with something better, ad infinitum...


Marauder06 said:


> Another uninformed opinion from me on a subject I know very little about:
> 
> But can't we see viruses in a microscope?  And we can see viruses multiple and attack healthy cells and stuff.  Or maybe I've watched "Outbreak" too many times?  ;)
> 
> Something is certainly causing the effects of things we attribute to viruses.  *The bloodletting was a "cure," which is often harder to identify than a "cause," right?*


Yes we can see viruses, tiny as they are.
That was something handed down by the Greeks, the "Humors" and trying to keep them in balance. "The group of fourth- and third-century BC (Greek) physicians known as the Hippocratics"........... "Their notion that 4 bodily fluids—blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile—caused illness persisted for more than 2000 years in the West until the rise of controlled empirical science in the mid-19th century"
But we do still use some Greek ideas in medicine, such as step away from the monitoring machine and look at the patient. I find it all very interesting.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> I'm not sure where you're getting the "vaccine doesn't work" from, are you meaning it's not a guarantee to stop getting covid? (the entire subject has be so convoluted now it's hard to know what anyone means anymore).


We were told that if we got the vaccine, we wouldn't get COVID.

I got the vaccine like a good little soldier, I got COVID anyway.  Same with my father.  I think I talked about it before in this thread.

Now that's a statistically-insignificant sample size of 2, but there are many, many people (millions?) who experienced the same thing.

Ergo, the vaccine doesn't work.  Or maybe it works now and "didn't" work is a better way to describe it.  Either way, we were given the wrong information about its efficacy.  I got a risky vaccine for no good reason.  So did millions of other people all over the world.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> We were told that if we got the vaccine, we wouldn't get COVID.
> 
> I got the vaccine like a good little soldier, I got COVID anyway.  Same with my father.  I think I talked about it before in this thread.
> 
> ...


Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.

ETA: You have to be careful of Drs, they will answer you with a perfectly honest answer, but unless you know exactly what and how to ask, you will hear what the Dr wants you to hear. I noticed Fauci doing that on a couple of rare occasions I watched that nonsense in Congress.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
> Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
> It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.


I'm not convinced that the vaccine worked at all.  I got laid up by the virus, and as a relatively-healthy 40-something man with no co-morbidities, it was hard for me to see how, short of being hospitalized or being killed outright (which typically wasn't happening to a lot of healthy middle aged Americans with access to effective medical care), the vax could have made things less-severe for me.

Same thing for my father, a very-healthy-for-his-age former 18A who got so sick I got a Red Cross message to come home because he was expectant.  Literally the only thing that could have been worse for him is death.  Maybe his vax kept him from dying.  But I doubt it.

I have no hesitancy about many other long-standing vaccinations.  I dutifully received my flu vax this year, even though I'm out of the Army in two weeks and will therefore never again pop on the bad list for MEDPROS.  Because, unlike the COVID vax, I believe the flu vax has a long track record of being both safe and effective.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm not convinced that the vaccine worked at all.  I got laid up by the virus, and as a relatively-healthy 40-something man with no co-morbidities, it was hard for me to see how, short of being hospitalized or being killed outright (which typically wasn't happening to a lot of healthy middle aged Americans with access to effective medical care), the vax could have made things less-severe for me.
> 
> Same thing for my father, a very-healthy-for-his-age former 18A who got so sick I got a Red Cross message to come home because he was expectant.  Literally the only thing that could have been worse for him is death.  Maybe his vax kept him from dying.  But I doubt it.
> 
> I have no hesitancy about many other long-standing vaccinations.  I dutifully received my flu vax this year, even though I'm out of the Army in two weeks and will therefore never again pop on the bad list for MEDPROS.  Because, unlike the COVID vax, I believe the flu vax has a long track record of being both safe and effective.


I hear you mate, I don't doubt your experience, but I'm also pretty sure you and your dad received some benefit from the vaccine, but you'll never know for certain, but that's the same for the flu vaccine, it's impossible to tell how much it helps, but we know that it helps. The death rates in TX that I posted earlier are a good example of that, is that a guarantee? Nope, but it should be your choice.
I just got my flu shot too. I will add one thing, I don't really know anything about the supposed cardiac side effects, just because I haven't followed it, like I said, at a certain point when I wasn't working it anyone, I washed my hands and walked away.
I was the first person you would meet at the door when you tried to enter the ER I worked out, I had jovial conversations with a few people who came in because they felt a little weak etc... Healthy, happy, often with an alarmingly low blood oxygen level, but so low it was initially dismissed as an equipment failure as you can't walk/talk/laugh with O2 in the 60s/70s, I'd take them in, wish them well and they'd be dead 20 minutes later. Initially I refused to wear a mask in the ER, hoping I was going to catch it, get a couple of weeks off work and then have immunity, then people started dying who shouldn't be dying, we all looked at each other and thought Fuck, what is this!? The director of the ER got all staff together initially and said, don't worry, it's just a kind of flu, just wash your hands and don't let people cough in your face, two days later, he was wearing N95, goggles, isolation gown, the works, as were all the other Drs (they never told us to BTW, we just started doing it because they were. Thanks Dr M, you prick) we had two staff members die too. After the initial surge, the medical community had pretty much worked out that comorbidities were the biggest problem. However that was drowned out in media/political screaming. I learned to hate humanity just a little more


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 17, 2022)

My big issue is that we just accept ridiculously unfounded counter factual as as some sort of proof re: covid and vaccines. “I got the disease they told me I wouldn’t get if I got the vaccine; but I’m thankful, because it could have been much worse.”

No, that’s a lie. Or a damned lie. There is no way to even research that- what control group are you going to use? A group that wasn’t vaccinated, got covid, then that group gets in a Time Machine, goes back, gets vaccinated, and you compare morbidity and mortality?

Comparing unvaccinated individuals wholesale to vaccinated people wholesale gives you about as much information about the efficacy of the vaccine as their astrological sign. And people I perceive to be smart say it. It’s maddening. It’s willingness to parrot an ideological belief at the expense of your intellectual integrity.

VAERS currently has hundreds of thousands of adverse affects, to include deaths. I think we can agree that *some number* of people were injured by this vaccine. Whitewashing those numbers saying, “But so many more would have died!” Is immoral and unethical. And I won’t tolerate it in my presence.

@pardus this is a great ‘starting block’ to just at least start asking questions. To your direct question about methods used long ago; I thought the exact same thing. “I get it, their initial hypothesis wasn’t correct but they had to revisit, yeah?” I still haven’t gotten a sufficient answer to that question. Not even a partially adequate one.

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 17, 2022)

I was a the lords chicken the other day. 2 lines, if they ran the government, we'd be in great shape. Car next to had some dude, by himself, wearing not only 1 mask, but 2. 2 different color masks. He saw me looking at him, I shook my head and started laughing at him. 

Fuck him. Fuck this entire thing. Fuck the government  fuck the media. Fuck the retards that bought into it, and continue to do so.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 17, 2022)

Yea, holistic health coaches ranting about the Rothschilds control over the medical industry and an alternative medicine doctor who sells a 250 dollar quartz water "wand" which "stabilizes H2O molecules into a crystalline coherent structure proven to reduce biological age" are totally on the up and up about virology, just like how Alex Jones' dick pills gave me a 13 inch hog.

There's legit criticisms of what we know about medical science, for sure.

But finding voices that are 100% opposite of everyone else and thinking "it's anti-establishment so it must have some truth" is how people become the rabbit kid.

ETA: I agree with the take that the medical/scientific community won't have a good picture of this event for another 18-24 months, if that.
It'll be something to look forward to being mildly interested in come 2024.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 17, 2022)

This might be a non-sequitur, but I'll say again.  Gastroenteritis almost killed me. Covid?  I moved my fiancee from Tempe to Dallas in the summer heat with COVID.  That shit was nothing.



pardus said:


> Gotcha, I thought that's what you may have meant.
> Yeah anyone who said that getting the vaccine would stop you getting covid was lying.
> It's like a flu vaccine, it will help make you better at fighting off an infection, and will make you less sick if you do get covid. That's it, that's the science. I hate the people that lied about it, and mandated it, now it has sown fear and loathing in a vaccine. Vaccines are awesome, anti vaxxers where always laughed at because, they were retarded, now thanks to the lies, millions of people are anti vaccine, thousands perhaps millions will die over time now due to vaccine hesitancy from all diseases. I think there are billions of people too many on the planet so I don't care, but it's just dumb, criminally dumb.
> 
> ETA: You have to be careful of Drs, they will answer you with a perfectly honest answer, but unless you know exactly what and how to ask, you will hear what the Dr wants you to hear. I noticed Fauci doing that on a couple of rare occasions I watched that nonsense in Congress.



Mate, I'm not going to rehash this.  But Pfizer and Moderna pushed articles for months in the original study that their bullshit which now fucks people up was stopping people from even catching it.  Then the percentages dropped in follow on studies and articles.  Then they said it prevented transmission. Oh and then it switched to the boosters would protect you.  Remember the CDC was changing the definition of what "fully vaccinated" meant. 

And you know what I said on the board in this very thread...this is a viral infection, you cannot stop it, treat it like the flu.  Also I said the traditional approval period for the FDA is 5 years...and we had an EUA in six months? I remember Mark Cuban would go on any platform and tout the bullshit for Pfizer and be their shill and say well with this new technology we can create boosters in a few weeks and mass produce them. Hate to break it to all the turds out there...but the 20th booster you just had is the same as the first shot.

And guess what, today, TODAY. The CDC states that your vaccination schedule is no longer a control status.  So the difference between you and someone who is unvaccinated is a fat 0.  By the way, I'm I got the shot, and then a second one, thank god I chose J&J. Also...I came down with it confirmed in July, might have had it sooner, not sure.  But in the fall of 2020 my fiancee went to see her esthetician who was symptomatic and was breathed on for 90 minutes...and didn't get infected. So...virus gonna virus and the vaccine pushers all need to commit sepuku. We destroyed our country, and for what? So Fauci can stand there and not take responsibility?

ETA: If you think the government has your best health interests at heart, please read this:  Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 17, 2022)

Ummmmm


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> 1, My big issue is that we just accept ridiculously unfounded counter factual as as some sort of proof re: covid and vaccines. “I got the disease they told me I wouldn’t get if I got the vaccine; but I’m thankful, because it could have been much worse.”
> 
> 2, No, that’s a lie. Or a damned lie. There is no way to even research that- what control group are you going to use? A group that wasn’t vaccinated, got covid, then that group gets in a Time Machine, goes back, gets vaccinated, and you compare morbidity and mortality?
> 
> ...


OK that's a lot! So I've been looking at everything you sent for way longer than I wanted lol and I'm going to answer each paragraph individually.

1, Anyone with any medical knowledge should understand that a virus like this was not going to be stopped by some absolute magical shield of a vaccine, the uneducated who were told that were lied to and that is beyond fucked up IMO, honestly I think that's likely if not absolutely a criminal act and should be treated as such.
2, you can see by the post I added above from TX that the unvaccinated died at a significantly higher rate that the vaccinated.
3, see 2 above ^
4, Honestly I can't really comment on that too much because I haven't looked into it, but yeah some vaccines harm/kill people, but that rate compared to the disease is meaningless, you're probably going to die in a car accident rather than a vaccine reaction so...
5, Dude, that is a bunch of religious fanatics who are preaching about the "end of days" and Jesus's second coming already being here, as well as the numerology of the terror attacks on 9/11 being proof of a conspiracy etc... Utter nonsense from fools who believe in imaginary friends, science is evidence, not faith.
6, You probably aren't now lol

Listen, I've always railed against conspiracy theory's and theorist's, and I think justifiably, however from what I've seen the politician's and the media do over the last decade or two I 100% believe there is some top level, rich, manipulating evil people in charge who are forcing/coercing people to their will for personal gain and profit, and it pains me to say that because I have given a lot of me to keep that status quo over the course of my lifetime. 
I believe that we need to recognize the difference between true bullshit from just not accepting/understanding/liking something. Whenever you put religion and science together you are going to end up with a shit sandwich, because blind faith vs science will never gel, science is ever evolving, faith is fixed to a stone aged book or three, how can it? I'm not here trying to argue about religion but dude you have a medical (scientific) licence, they don't gel. I personally watched one of my ER Dr's talking to an NP, he said, "I just trust that Jesus will guide me in my diagnosis" to which she agreed, I was flabbergasted, didn't you go to medical school!? A science school!? Why did you need training if Jesus was going to make your decisions for you!? Just ridiculous IMO. Everyone has and should have their right think think and do whatever the fuck they like, as long as they don't affect anyone else. Take the vaccine if you want, don't take it if you don't want, you should have free choice, but I'm sick of the lies and the bullshit that is surrounding this issue, on both sides. Everyone sucks, I hope most people die, not excluding me. 
Peace Bitches, I'm going to watch some cat videos.


----------



## pardus (Oct 17, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> This might be a non-sequitur, but I'll say again.  Gastroenteritis almost killed me. Covid?  I moved my fiancee from Tempe to Dallas in the summer heat with COVID.  That shit was nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So we agree, we were lied to, the science is science, facts known at a specific point in time, if people choice to manipulate that, it has noting to do with the science/evidence. 
The US military took 12? military prisoners during the Spanish Influenza and offered them a pardon if they lived, by trying to infect them with that particular strain of flu, they injected infected lung tissue into their veins, put droplets of infected liquid into their noses, mouths, eyes, had dying patients cough directly into their mouths etc... Not a single one of them contracted the flu, and we don't know why. 
As I've said many times already, the mandates were wrong and the lies were wrong but that has noting to do with the science of it all. If people were more educated they couldn't be duped, so...
The govt has done a lot more fucked up medical shit than just the Tuskegee stuff I know, and and sickened and terrified of them for it, they haven't stopped, just changed tactics. 


Marauder06 said:


> Ummmmm


Faulci is a lying fuck IMO.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> OK that's a lot! So I've been looking at everything you sent for way longer than I wanted lol and I'm going to answer each paragraph individually.
> 
> 1, Anyone with any medical knowledge should understand that a virus like this was not going to be stopped by some absolute magical shield of a vaccine, the uneducated who were told that were lied to and that is beyond fucked up IMO, honestly I think that's likely if not absolutely a criminal act and should be treated as such.
> 2, you can see by the post I added above from TX that the unvaccinated died at a significantly higher rate that the vaccinated.
> ...


Counter points-
1- People believed that because they were told that. Saying differently is willfully ignoring the facts. You can pretend this is common knowledge all you’d like. 

2- Right. I’m saying that’s a dumb comparison, for the reasons I listed. Its a correlation. The fact that I have to explain caisson vs correlation to someone pretending to be an authority is tedious. 

3- no pass here. Your bias is apparent. 

4- so you haven’t looked into it, can’t comment, but *can* comment on car accident vs covid mortality vs covid mortality without vaccine. This is a terrible take, I wish you hadn’t said it. You’ve paid a penalty in one person’s eyes. 

5- We already talked about how toxic it is to throw articles at each other. You asked for some background. I provided it. And then you dismissed the articles in exactly the way I said you would and why I don’t think these conversations are valuable. I can only lead a kiwi to a sheep, my friend. 

6- No, I was still looking forward to it, and I still appreciate the input. I think you’re a good person, with terrible ideas. I don’t think you’re malicious. 

To the rest- 
Not sure why you’re rallying against religion here; I’m one of the most vocal a religious people on the board. Again- the information contains in an article can be true, and you can hate the source at the same time. Doesn’t make it less possible or plausible, just makes you resistant to it. 

What kind of cat videos?


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 17, 2022)

pardus said:


> Peace Bitches, I'm going to watch some cat videos.





amlove21 said:


> What kind of cat videos?



I'll provide one.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/y6772m


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## Muppet (Oct 18, 2022)

My bro sent me this, he's trolling a pro mask Facebook page, lmfao.

I swear, these cunts will continue this/buy into the fear mongering for the rest of eternity.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 19, 2022)

Kimmel's a cunt, we know that. The sad part? I know many medical professionals, that I've worked with for years that have and continue to echo that cunts sentiment. 

This is one of the reasons, including the state and federal governments bullshit that I think this pandemic morphed into a plandemic.

I've told close friends with this mentality to fuck off. It's one thing to disagree, like we do here. It's another for supposedly educated folks to embrace this. It's why I won't wear masks in hospitals, it triggers some. Fuck them.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 19, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Kimmel's a cunt, we know that.



Used to like Kimmel on _The Man Show. _He's gone full douche.


----------



## AWP (Oct 20, 2022)

There’s a problem when Bill Maher is more conservative than a comic who cut his teeth on a show with bikini-clad women jumping on a trampoline.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 20, 2022)

So stupid it was funny


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 20, 2022)

AWP said:


> There’s a problem when Bill Maher is more conservative than a comic who cut his teeth on a show with bikini-clad women jumping on a trampoline.


The left loves hypocrites, even protects them. Like Ghislaine, still alive.  What dirt does he have?


----------



## JedisonsDad (Oct 20, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> The left loves hypocrites, even protects them. Like Ghislaine, still alive.  What dirt does he have?


All dirt conspiracy aside, I’m amazed that she got less than R-Kelly.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 22, 2022)




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## amlove21 (Oct 22, 2022)

“ThEy WeRe AlWaYs SaYinG iT dOeSn’T sToP TrAnSmIsSiOn”. FOH.

I wish we had a term for retcon and gaslighting combined. Retlighting? Congassing?

Oh and the CDC added it to the schedule for infants. But yeah- that’s due to science and stuff. Cause of all the long term studies (or short term, or any human trials) we have on kids and the amount of children died of covid. Which was (in America) less than 100. Out of more than 80-100 million.


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## Muppet (Oct 22, 2022)

I walked into a local ER, non trauma center. No mask, fucking clerk hands me one, I put it in my pocket. She looks at me, I look at nurses, all with masks on their necks, doing charts, eating, bullshitting. Glass houses dick head


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 23, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> “ThEy WeRe AlWaYs SaYinG iT dOeSn’T sToP TrAnSmIsSiOn”. FOH.
> 
> I wish we had a term for retcon and gaslighting combined. Retlighting? Congassing?
> 
> Oh and the CDC added it to the schedule for infants. But yeah- that’s due to science and stuff. Cause of all the long term studies (or short term, or any human trials) we have on kids and the amount of children died of covid. Which was (in America) less than 100. Out of more than 80-100 million.



But hey, Pfizer is pouring millions into SEC Football.


----------



## AWP (Oct 23, 2022)

FWIW, my vote is for “retlighting.”


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 23, 2022)

There's already talk of mandatory masking again because our health system that was fucked, pre-pandemic, is still fucked.  Had a few year's to fix it and it's worse.  So they can go fuck themselves.  I'm not masking and I'm definitely not getting a booster.

We still aren't back to regular care.  Some family doctors are still refusing to see patients in person.  Any specialist, is an extended wait period; 1 or 2 year wait for initial consult, is not uncommon.  Once seen, if surgery is needed; even priority 1 could be 30 day wait.  Lower priority can be more than 6 months.  

"Ontario’s top doctor urges mask wearing, warns mandate could return | Globalnews.ca" Ontario’s top doctor urges mask wearing, warns mandate could return  | Globalnews.ca


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## Marauder06 (Oct 25, 2022)

New York Supreme Court reinstates all employees fired for being unvaccinated, orders backpay

To sum up: 



> The New York state Supreme Court has reinstated all employees who were fired for not being vaccinated, ordering back pay and saying their rights had been violated.
> 
> The court found Monday that "*being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting COVID-19.*" New York City Mayor Eric Adams claimed earlier this year that his administration would not rehire employees who had been fired over their vaccination status.
> 
> NYC alone fired roughly 1,400 employees for being unvaccinated earlier this year after the city adopted a vaccine mandate under former Mayor Bill de Blasio.


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## Cookie_ (Oct 25, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> New York Supreme Court reinstates all employees fired for being unvaccinated, orders backpay
> 
> To sum up:



The judge says his reason wasn't because of the efficacy of the vaccine, but rather that NYC was making special rules for certain people but firing others. Yahoo link



> *“The Health Commissioner cannot create a new condition of employment for city employees, . . . cannot prohibit an employee from reporting to work . . . [and] cannot terminate employees. The Mayor cannot exempt certain employees from these orders,” reads the opinion, which was authored by Judge Ralph J*. Porzio. Porzio noted that vaccination against Covid-19 does not prevent transmission of the disease, but noted that the decision “is not a commentary on the efficacy of vaccination.”
> 
> *“If it was about safety and public health, no one would be exempt. It is time for the City of New York to do what is right and what is just,” *concluded Porzio.



Which is still a huge deal though.

How many places were doing what NYC did where non-healthcare employees were being fired for vax shit but athletes/media members got a pass? 

I'm surprised this happened in NY though.


----------



## Topkick (Oct 25, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> New York Supreme Court reinstates all employees fired for being unvaccinated, orders backpay
> 
> To sum up:



Not often I say this, good for NY! Wonder what happens now to those hired to replace them?


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## Muppet (Oct 25, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> New York Supreme Court reinstates all employees fired for being unvaccinated, orders backpay
> 
> To sum up:



Every one of those employees need to sue those fuckers. These bastards, the CDC, NIH, all of them need to be held accountable. 

The fucking Biden government, the states, the media that perpetuated the fear mongering, the bullshit mandates, closings are all complicit in violating civil rights, though, they'll never be held accountable.


----------



## Andoni (Oct 25, 2022)

Muppet said:


> they'll never be held accountable.


"shitty rotten people."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 25, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The judge says his reason wasn't because of the efficacy of the vaccine, but rather that NYC was making special rules for certain people but firing others. Yahoo link
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unvaccinated fans could attend games at the Barclays center without masks long before Kyrie Irving was allowed to play a game. He was able to practice before he could play...which makes no sense.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 25, 2022)

NY State is about to lose a lot of money for backpay, stupid decisions cost sometimes....


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## amlove21 (Oct 25, 2022)

My favorite part of this whole thing is the dominoes falling. There are gonna be a lot of folks left with the reverberations of their shitty takes and the cold, hard light of truth. 

They'll ignore those facts, but that's ok. It's a valuable lesson for those on the fence.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 26, 2022)

Ok- hold the literal fuck on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/10/24/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-exercise/

_"The study, which involved almost 200,000 men and women in South Africa, found coronavirus vaccination effectively prevented severe illness in most of them. But it worked best in people who exercised regularly. They wound up about 25 percent less likely to be hospitalized with covid than sedentary people, although everyone received the same vaccine."_

Now, I have only been doing medicine for like, 2 decades or so at this point. But I cannot FOR THE LIFE OF ME remember a single medication in the history of time that is made _better by exercising. That is what this article is saying. The vaccine works; but those that exercised made the vaccine work better. _Another direct quote from the article- "_In more concrete terms, their vaccines protected them about 25 percent better than the same shots in sedentary people."_

Oh, really? THAT'S what happened? Thier vaccines protected them more cause they're healthy. 

You know, it's almost like these things are completely made up to retlight us all into believing that we were all wrong when we insisted on sunlight, exercise, water and vitamin D in 2020.

Anyone wanna help enlighten me here?


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 26, 2022)

Do does this mean, the more boosters I get, the more I can sit on my ass?


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 26, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Do does this mean, the more boosters I get, the more I can sit on my ass?


Just the opposite! All those boosters are actually activated by exercise. So you get the shot, then take a walk, and the vaccine is energized by your fitness.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Ok- hold the literal fuck on.
> 
> *You know, it's almost like these things are completely made up to retlight us all into believing that we were all wrong when we insisted on sunlight, exercise, water and vitamin D in 2020*.
> 
> Anyone wanna help enlighten me here?


No enlightenment here, just some supporting fires.

My family and I lived in Hawaii when the virus broke out.  The BANNED US FROM THE BEACH bro.  Like, the whole island was banned.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 26, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> No enlightenment here, just some supporting fires.
> 
> My family and I lived in Hawaii when the virus broke out.  The BANNED US FROM THE BEACH bro.  Like, the whole island was banned.


Trying to explain 2020-2022 to people is going to be so fun in the hellish post-apocalyptic landscape that will be the world in 10 years. 

Yeah, so then they said you had to stay away from people, but SIMULTANEOUSLY shut down huge open spaces and public parks. They even filled in skateparks with dirt so kids couldn't play outside, and they told us that was for our own good. 

Those silly little geese! Silly goose behavior!


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Trying to explain 2020-2022 to people is going to be so fun in the hellish post-apocalyptic landscape that will be the world in 10 years.
> 
> Yeah, so then they said you had to stay away from people, but SIMULTANEOUSLY shut down huge open spaces and public parks. They even filled in skateparks with dirt so kids couldn't play outside, and they told us that was for our own good.
> 
> Those silly little geese! Silly goose behavior!


They were even arresting people. For going to the beach.  I'm not talking just about dumb-ass tourists who faked vax cards.  

And eventually yeah you could play football and have concerts and do other things but you couldn't surf.  In the ocean.  Under the fucking tropical sun.  Where COVID has a 0% survivability rate.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Trying to explain 2020-2022 to people is going to be so fun in the hellish post-apocalyptic landscape that will be the world in 10 years.
> 
> Yeah, so then they said you had to stay away from people, but SIMULTANEOUSLY shut down huge open spaces and public parks. They even filled in skateparks with dirt so kids couldn't play outside, and they told us that was for our own good.
> 
> Those silly little geese! Silly goose behavior!



Silly. We're all in this together!


----------



## AWP (Oct 26, 2022)

I miss pandemic era traffic. Those were good days.


----------



## amlove21 (Oct 26, 2022)

AWP said:


> I miss pandemic era traffic. Those were good days.


BRRRRRooooo. Shout out to that shit. When COVID was so dangerous, we had to legitimately have an NCO check that the teams bleached all high-touch surfaces daily but not deadly enough that we stopped going into the unit to spend the whole day in large groups of people in small rooms (but of course 6 feet apart) after interacting with who knows how many people only to then go home to our families, who we were protecting by wearing masks... 

That was *PEAK* traffic times. I remember some story about how the cannonball run record had stood for years, and then during 2020, people broke it like 3 times.


----------



## AWP (Oct 26, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> BRRRRRooooo. Shout out to that shit. When COVID was so dangerous, we had to legitimately have an NCO check that the teams bleached all high-touch surfaces daily but not deadly enough that we stopped going into the unit to spend the whole day in large groups of people in small rooms (but of course 6 feet apart) after interacting with who knows how many people only to then go home to our families, who we were protecting by wearing masks...
> 
> That was *PEAK* traffic times. I remember some story about how the cannonball run record had stood for years, and then during 2020, people broke it like 3 times.



I'm in Abu Dhabi at the time, they set a curfew of 8PM to be off the road. Our night shift would relieve us around 6:30...problem is, the liquor stores closed at 7.

If you think a bunch of contractors are going without booze...y'all don't know shit.

Anyway, Abu Dhabi has radar posts. Cops rarely ran radar and with the pandemic they weren't about to actually stop a car for any reason. Therefore, between the posts was a free fire zone. We actually had one stretch of road we called Talladega because of the distance between the radar posts. Wide the fuck open in a country filled with every fast car you can imagine.

The booze hut was on the way home from the base, real close to the highway and the last long stretch was a bridge...ain't no radar on a bridge, you know? We're out there, doing about a buck ten in Camrys on the highway. Off the highway we didn't recognize the author-i-tie of peasant class items such as stop signs or red lights.

And the night shift? If they didn't want to stay up until the stores opened at 9, they just said fuck tha' po-leece and stopped on the way into work. COVID was going to kill us all, remember? Base police weren't searching vehicles because getting near people was a death sentence. Do you have any idea how much booze was brought in to Al Dhafra during the pandemic?

110 mph in a Camry and a Rolls smokes past me like I'm on a fucking Vespa... Wild times.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 26, 2022)

-Covid=trust the science.
-More than 2 genders=science is false.
-Pro-abortion=my body, my choice.
-Against vaccines/masks/mandates=my body, my choice does not matter, PuBlIc hEAlTh EmErGeNcY....


----------



## Blizzard (Oct 27, 2022)

Speaking of traffic, Bill Burr was one of the people saying stupid shit during the lockdowns , etc., but this clip from his standup routine is pretty funny - mostly because it's true:
Bill Burr - Covid Traffic


----------



## ThunderHorse (Oct 28, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586036528064741376
Truly enjoyed being gaslit by the medical orthodoxy that destroyed millions if American lives.

Also still enjoy the retlighting.


----------



## Muppet (Oct 28, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586036528064741376
> Truly enjoyed being gaslit by the medical orthodoxy that destroyed millions if American lives.
> 
> Also still enjoy the retlighting.



But, but, but, lord Fauci and this administration told us it was not!


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 28, 2022)

I distinctly remember being labeled "racist" for merely stating that this was a possibility.


----------



## AWP (Oct 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I distinctly remember being labeled "racist" for merely stating that this was a possibility.



Get in line with a bunch of other folks.


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Get in line with a bunch of other folks.


Lines are racist, bro.  You need to educate yourself.  Literally shaking right now.


----------



## RackMaster (Oct 28, 2022)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Oct 28, 2022)

*sensible chuckle*


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 29, 2022)




----------



## Muppet (Oct 29, 2022)

Maria's 10 year old niece just told me, "I don't wear masks anymore. Mommy and daddy made me wear them, I still got sick. They made me get shots, I still got sick. I had to wear them for soccer, I'm not doing it".

Good girl, I gave her a high five and 10 dollars.


----------



## AWP (Oct 29, 2022)

The beauty of children is that you can spark a rebellion with nothing but a pack of Oreos.


----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 29, 2022)




----------



## Cookie_ (Oct 29, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> View attachment 40834


I totally thought I put this in the . thread 😅


----------



## Marauder06 (Oct 29, 2022)

No worries, I'm sure a member of the staff will be along shortly to move it for you.  ;)


----------



## Muppet (Nov 1, 2022)

Anybody that bought into this and continues to do so, shame them, they are part of the problem. Fuck your amnesty. It's criminal...


----------



## Muppet (Nov 3, 2022)




----------



## amlove21 (Nov 3, 2022)

My favorite current narrative is the “Guys, we know we ruined the economy and locked you in your houses and publicly shamed you and segregated society and irreparably harmed your children for possibly the rest of their lives and closed your businesses and ended your military careers and took away your freedoms and liberties and put the world into economic turmoil… but we can all agree to a truce, right?”

All I asked during those times was to be left alone. No more, no less. 

So for me, it’s not only a ‘no’, it’s a no and a fuck you. 

I’ll counter your request for amnesty with an offer of federal charges, military tribunals and immediate removal from your position, whatever it may be. 

/shot


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 3, 2022)

/chaser


----------



## Muppet (Nov 3, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> My favorite current narrative is the “Guys, we know we ruined the economy and locked you in your houses and publicly shamed you and segregated society and irreparably harmed your children for possibly the rest of their lives and closed your businesses and ended your military careers and took away your freedoms and liberties and put the world into economic turmoil… but we can all agree to a truce, right?”
> 
> All I asked during those times was to be left alone. No more, no less.
> 
> ...



Exactly. It's why I shame those that bought into it, still wear masks, still virtue signal.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 3, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Exactly. It's why I shame those that bought into it, still wear masks, still virtue signal.


I'm OK with that.  I remember a few people wearing masks outdoors pre-COVID.  Many, many years ago, my grandfather wore a surgical mask out in public because he and a circulation issue that caused his fingers and lips (and maybe his toes too, IDK) to turn black, and it embarrassed him.

If a mask is what you think you need to do in order to be/feel safe/comfortable, I'm fine with it.  Just stop trying to force that shit on me.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 3, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I'm OK with that.  I remember a few people wearing masks outdoors pre-COVID.  Many, many years ago, my grandfather wore a surgical mask out in public because he and a circulation issue that caused his fingers and lips (and maybe his toes too, IDK) to turn black, and it embarrassed him.
> 
> If a mask is what you think you need to do in order to be/feel safe/comfortable, I'm fine with it.  Just stop trying to force that shit on me.
> 
> View attachment 40891



The vast majority of folks wearing masks are nervous cunts that bought into it. A small population are sick and trying to keep from getting sicker, I get that but as you can tell what a junkie looks like, you can tell what a mask nut looks like.

I'm at the pharmacy for my pops, waiting, see this. Tell me this helps. The screen. Whats wrong with this pic?


Fucking, no sense. I had to get new DL, stop at photo shop, same thing, fucker was wearing 2 masks, behind a screen, nobody else in place yet.


----------



## AWP (Nov 3, 2022)

A few of you have heard me vent about the adult Disney superfan at work, aka DisNerd. Anyway, she made some snide comment about people not wearing their masks "during" COVID and how they should be quiet and just put on the mask, blah, blah, whatevs.

Hooker wasn't wearing a mask during our conversation. I guess COVID's over and done with? Wear a mask or not, I won't think a thing, I have not one issue if you choose to wear a mask, but don't A) preach and/or B) be a fucking hypocrite.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 3, 2022)

AWP said:


> A few of you have heard me vent about the adult Disney superfan at work, aka DisNerd. Anyway, she made some snide comment about people not wearing their masks "during" COVID and how they should be quiet and just put on the mask, blah, blah, whatevs.
> 
> Hooker wasn't wearing a mask during our conversation. I guess COVID's over and done with? Wear a mask or not, I won't think a thing, I have not one issue if you choose to wear a mask, but don't A) preach and/or B) be a fucking hypocrite.



Yep, hypocrites like the cunt state politicians that closed states/cities but were seen at parties? Or, when BLM marched under the guise of racial injustice in the thousands across the US, with politicians, that was lauded righteous while patriots marched in state capitals to open, they were called plague rats and granny murderers. 

No, this is why I shame all. They surely shamed me and those like for not wearing masks or calling out the hypocritical behavior and/or questioning things, instead taking in the ass, dry with a sandpaper condom.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 3, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Yep, hypocrites like the cunt state politicians that closed states/cities but were seen at parties? Or, when BLM marched under the guise of racial injustice in the thousands across the US, with politicians, that was lauded righteous while patriots marched in state capitals to open, they were called plague rats and granny murderers.
> 
> No, this is why I shame all. They surely shamed me and those like for not wearing masks or calling out the hypocritical behavior and/or questioning things, instead taking in the ass, dry with a sandpaper condom.



Protested, peacefully, but by causing billions in  damages.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Protested, peacefully, but by causing billions in  damages.


"Mostly peaceful"


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Nov 4, 2022)

"Mostly"


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 4, 2022)

No Forgiveness for What You Did to Us During COVID​


> I’m going to say this as plainly as I can: f*** you and your pleas for “COVID amnesty.”


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> No Forgiveness for What You Did to Us During COVID​


From the article-

"We don’t need a “COVID amnesty.” As we’ve seen time and again, amnesty without accountability only encourages more of the same bad behavior in the future. No, we need a COVID _*reckoning*_."

Well. F*cking. Said.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 4, 2022)

Fuck amnesty. Fuck anyone that bought into it. Fuck the state and federal government for the abortion of last 2 plus years. Fuck the mandates. Fuck the virtue signaling.


----------



## Kaldak (Nov 4, 2022)

I hate that love emoji; it kills me a little to use it, but it is worth using here.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 4, 2022)

Kaldak said:


> I hate that love emoji; it kills me a little to use it, but it is worth using here.


Nothing has made me happier in recent memory than that emoji, I hope it stays as long as this place exists. Only way it gets better is if, instead of the heart eyes being solid red, is if they were rainbows.


----------



## AWP (Nov 4, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Nothing has made me happier in recent memory than that emoji, I hope it stays as long as this place exists. Only way it gets better is if, instead of the heart eyes being solid red, is if they were rainbows.



You'll beat my ass 20 ways from Sunday, but we have to fight over this take. At a bare minimum, I will wreck your hair with my dying breath.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> No Forgiveness for What You Did to Us During COVID​
> 
> 
> View attachment 40899




You know what's really sad?  That _The Atlantic_ (nee _Atlantic Monthly_) went from a moderate publication (2003 was a wild year, but it was measured then in it's discussion of Bremmer disbanding the Iraqi Army, the failures of the invasion, and preparation for occupation) to a crazy liberal one.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> You know what's really sad?  That _The Atlantic_ (nee _Atlantic Monthly_) went from a moderate publication (2003 was a wild year, but it was measured then in it's discussion of Bremmer disbanding the Iraqi Army, the failures of the invasion, and preparation for occupation) to a crazy liberal one.


Lot of that going around.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 6, 2022)

@RackMaster


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 6, 2022)

The precedent has been set.  Good thing they fixed the system...

"Ontario’s top doc weighs bad upcoming flu season in decision on mask recommendations | Globalnews.ca" Ontario’s top doc weighs bad upcoming flu season in decision on mask recommendations  | Globalnews.ca


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 14, 2022)

Lol wtf. This is why you don't do an EUA to inoculate millions from a viral disease. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592226514195578880


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 14, 2022)

Then there's this.



> Australia’s vaccine advisory body is unlikely to approve a second Covid vaccine booster for under-30s due to the increased risk of myocarditis.



https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...k/news-story/a2da9fe71fa873f4e5aae0390625691d


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

Sen Paul did not suicide himself.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

Undoubtedly, this mouth breather probably has 9 jabs, masked everywhere, including outdoors, virtue signaled on social media and damned all of us that did not buy into the bullshit or called out ilks like her. 

Lmfao.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Undoubtedly, this mouth breather probably has 9 jabs, masked everywhere, including outdoors, virtue signaled on social media and damned all of us that did not buy into the bullshit or called out ilks like her.
> 
> Lmfao.



That made my day.  Thank you.  LOL


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> That made my day.  Thank you.  LOL



Lol. Here for you brother!


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

What's funny are the folks I care for, in laws (liberals that bought into it) and Maria's aunt. All bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

Then, one at a time, they caught the plague, including Maria's neices. They questioned it like they were confused. I laughed in their faces.

I said, wait, the universal masking and jabs did not work like lord Fauci said they would? Crickets.

Rewind to last year when Maria's mom passed. Fucked year but when funeral time came, funeral home mandated masks.

I refused, Maria's brother refused. We did not wear em, a few visitors did not. My bro in law (wife's sisters husband) was wearing one. He was standing next to me, I asked him this...

Why are you wearing a mask?.
He told me, "we were told we had to".
My response? Well, you're kissing cheeks, hugging and shaking hands. You're messing with your mask, intermittently pulling mask down to talk. See my point?

He took it off, Marisol gave him the look, he put it back on. Fucking cuck.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

Point is...


----------



## Muppet (Nov 15, 2022)

Lol


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Lol


LOL

Well acted.  Great skit.

Yeah, I'm not apologizing for shit.


----------



## AWP (Nov 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Undoubtedly, this mouth breather probably has 9 jabs, masked everywhere, including outdoors, virtue signaled on social media and damned all of us that did not buy into the bullshit or called out ilks like her.
> 
> Lmfao.



A cure for COVID that works almost every single time is washing your mouth out with buckshot. I suggest getting her the size 00 bottle.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 16, 2022)

I didn't know where to put this but this seemed like as good of a spot.  We gave public health extraordinary power's and now they'll use it for whatever bullshit cause they want.  



> According to Tam, without immediate and significant action climate change “poses catastrophic risks for present and future generations” and “the livability of the planet.” The report says that cities like New York and Shanghai, neither of which is in Canada of course, may be underwater within our lifetimes. To save the planet, the public health bureaucracy must take “assertive and effective action across jurisdictions and sectors.” How exceedingly convenient for Tam that with the pandemic now effectively over — COVID-19 being relegated to an appendix in her report — there is still this other alleged crisis whose management demands allowing her and her bureaucracy to maintain significant control over society.





> Tam notes that the severity of climate change’s effect on health is influenced by “structural systems of oppression” such as colonization, racism, ableism, and heteronormativity. Citing articles from the American Journal of Public Health that carry such titles as “We Need Environmental Health Justice Research and Action for LGBTQ+ People” and “Queering Environmental Justice: Unequal Environmental Health Burden on the LGBTQ+ Community,” Tam laments that climate adaptation efforts have not had enough focus on the experiences of the LGBTQ2S+ population.



Matthew Lau: Theresa Tam tests positive for creeping-government virus


----------



## Dame (Nov 16, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> I didn't know where to put this but this seemed like as good of a spot.  We gave public health extraordinary power's and now they'll use it for whatever bullshit cause they want.
> 
> Matthew Lau: Theresa Tam tests positive for creeping-government virus


What the ever-lovin-fuck is THAT bullshit?



> the severity of climate change’s effect on health is influenced by “structural systems of oppression” such as colonization, racism, ableism, and heteronormativity


Seriously?!


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 16, 2022)

Dame said:


> What the ever-lovin-fuck is THAT bullshit?
> 
> 
> Seriously?!



It is pandering.

More specifically it is citing completely obscure research by people with no real job who study things they make up, using metrics they made up, and then interpreting the results the way they want to. It is nonsense.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 16, 2022)

All Trudeau and clowns have is pandering but the morons lap it up.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 16, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> All Trudeau and clowns have is pandering but the morons lap it up.


Bruh. Xi dressed Troodough down in public over some leaks that came out of a meeting and ole Blackface Castro Jr was looking SHOOKETH. Hilarious to watch.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 16, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> All Trudeau and clowns have is pandering but the morons lap it up.



I think that people aren’t able to understand the difference between nonsense and reality sometimes. Climate change is real. LGBT people do get treated unfairly. Those things have zero to do with each other. People see them both together and it appeals to their fear. Fear of mass displacement. Fear of seeming homophobic. Next thing g you know you have nonsense like this. Plus very smart people can make arguments that sound legit.


----------



## Gunz (Nov 16, 2022)

Ten billion large parasitic organisms devouring the host planet will kill and eat each other long before climate change burns them up.


----------



## TLDR20 (Nov 16, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Ten billion large parasitic organisms devouring the host planet will kill and eat each other long before climate change burns them up.



8 billion people competing for dwindling resources and mass migration due to changing climate will cause more problems before there ever are 10 billion people.


----------



## RackMaster (Nov 16, 2022)

Well, this is interesting.



> Interpretation​*Previous natural infection was associated with lower incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection, regardless of the variant, than mRNA primary-series vaccination. *Vaccination remains the safest and most optimal tool for protecting against infection and COVID-19-related hospitalisation and death, irrespective of previous infection status.



"Protection from previous natural infection compared with mRNA vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19 in Qatar: a retrospective cohort study - The Lancet Microbe" Protection from previous natural infection compared with mRNA vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19 in Qatar: a retrospective cohort study


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 16, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> 8 billion people competing for dwindling resources and mass migration due to changing climate will cause more problems before there ever are 10 billion people.



We'll probably both be dead or you'll be wrong.  But it only took us 12 years to go from 7 to 8. So, let's chart 2046 as the date to reach it by. I will take payment in precious and rare bourbons. 

Here's your shopping list:
Mitcher's 20
Mitchter's Celebration
King of Kentucky 18YR
William LaRue Weller
George T Stagg
Old Forester Birthday Bourbon

Make sure you get two of each so you can keep a bottle for yourself.


----------



## AWP (Nov 17, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> We'll probably both be dead or you'll be wrong.  But it only took us 12 years to go from 7 to 8. So, let's chart 2046 as the date to reach it by. I will take payment in precious and rare bourbons.
> 
> Here's your shopping list:
> Mitcher's 20
> ...



Except the link you posted states growth is expected to slow, with the 10.4 billion mark coming in the 2080's. The odds are most of us won't be alive to see 10 billion 55-60 years from now.


----------



## Cookie_ (Nov 17, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> I think that people aren’t able to understand the difference between nonsense and reality sometimes.



It's conversations that would happen in high academic circles leaking out into public policy.
These people spend their PHD's studying these "intersections" of issues but then don't know how "explain it like I'm 5" to the public.
They waste their time trying to explain to the average citizen the minutiae of these subsets of issues, when the populace at large will either not get it or not care.

They could literally just say "climate change will affect people on the lower end of the economic ladder worst". Most people would get that, and it has the added benefit of not sounding ridiculous, but then these PHDs in government don't get to flex their big brains.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 17, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> It's conversations that would happen in high academic circles leaking out into public policy.
> These people spend their PHD's studying these "intersections" of issues but then don't know how "explain it like I'm 5" to the public.
> They waste their time trying to explain to the average citizen the minutiae of these subsets of issues, when the populace at large will either not get it or not care.
> 
> They could literally just say* "climate change will affect people on the lower end of the economic ladder worst"*. Most people would get that, and it has the added benefit of not sounding ridiculous, but then these PHDs in government don't get to flex their big brains.


Concur.  Everything affects people with fewer resources more than it does people with greater resources.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 17, 2022)

AWP said:


> Except the link you posted states growth is expected to slow, with the 10.4 billion mark coming in the 2080's. The odds are most of us won't be alive to see 10 billion 55-60 years from now.


I know what it said, but the show Teen Mom clearly tells me that people like banging, a lot.  Then add Mormons, Muslims, and South American Catholics to the mix...that doesn't even touch on India!


----------



## Muppet (Nov 17, 2022)

A politician that gets it.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 21, 2022)

I can't possibly see how this can be bad. Fucking tyrannical bastards.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 22, 2022)

Democrat mega-(bankrupt)-donor FTX apparently donated a whole bunch of money to a study to discredit alternative COVID treatments, like Ivermectin.

I didn't read the study so I can't comment on how good or bad I think it is.  Just another interesting data point.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 23, 2022)

Ben Bankas on Instagram: "This is everyone upset on Twitter right now #satire #twitter - this if from April think I’ll do some new sketches in this vein.  - #elon #elonmusk #tesla #twittermemes #memes #dankmemes #comedy #parody #funnyvideos"


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 23, 2022)

Died Suddenly (Full Documentary, Not Suitable For Children) - Rumble

Fast forward to about 10 minutes and you get to the meat/potatoes.  

Bottom line Embalmers all across the globe have noticed people who "Died Suddenly" have some really interesting "white fibrous" blood clotts they have never seen before in decades of their profession.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 27, 2022)

Although it is related to the China thread. The people are protesting en masse against China's covid-zero approach. You'd think the se assholes who releases this virus into the world would know covid-zero doesn't work. All they're doing is screwing with the world supply chain. Which honestly is good. The more factories we repatriate the better.

China Covid Unrest Boils Over as Citizens Defy Lockdown Efforts


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 27, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596999663110217728


----------



## pardus (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Although it is related to the China thread. The people are protesting en masse against China's covid-zero approach. You'd think the se assholes who releases this virus into the world would know covid-zero doesn't work. All they're doing is screwing with the world supply chain. Which honestly is good. The more factories we repatriate the better.
> 
> China Covid Unrest Boils Over as Citizens Defy Lockdown Efforts


Tiananmen Square v2.0 is coming, the commies (and in particular Xi (who is more of a Maoist that any leader I've ever seen)) won't allow this to continue/grow.


----------



## Muppet (Nov 27, 2022)

pardus said:


> Tiananmen Square v2.0 is coming, the commies (and in particular Xi (who is more of a Maoist that any leader I've ever seen)) won't allow this to continue/grow.



Just told my partner this earlier. He will crush it/Chinese citizen patriots.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2022)

Twitter is done with labeling things as misinformation...you know, a company purchased by a dude with actual ethics doing ethical things. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597596414561095681


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 29, 2022)

Oh man! We are so close to, "Let's all revisit the topics you called me a conspiracy theorist about 6 months ago and now turns out to be factually accurate and you want to just forget all the dumb shit you said." again. It really has made these last 3 years fun! 

CDC knew COVID vax associated with myocarditis but left off post-vax surveys

From the article-
_"Notably, chest pain and other cardiac symptoms that could indicate myocarditis and pericarditis — now known to be more common post-vaccination in people under 40 — are completely missing from the survey checkboxes, without which input data are harder to standardize.

V-safe users would have to write in cardiac symptoms on the survey form's "other" field, limited to 250 characters, for them to be counted. ICAN is still trying to compel the agency to turn over this "free-text field data," its lawyer Aaron Siri told Just the News.

The fact that the agency didn't prompt users to consider adverse events of special interest (AESI) it had already identified in an early v-safe protocol is "one of the best and most compelling pieces of evidence supporting premeditated [wrongful] conduct," Siri wrote in the second of what he told Just the News would be at least a 12-part series of posts on the disclosures."_


What we doing today, internet? Are we going with, "that's not what that study meant cause I am better at reading the same study you are" or are we doing "I don't respect that source and therefore I will discount it"? Or, my personal favorite, "That's not happening at all; ok it might be but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be, ok it is happening, but we didn't know at the time, ok we DID know at the time, but we had to."

I am pretty familiar with both. As always- royal "you" and no one specifically.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Nov 29, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Oh man! We are so close to, "Let's all revisit the topics you called me a conspiracy theorist about 6 months ago and now turns out to be factually accurate and you want to just forget all the dumb shit you said." again. It really has made these last 3 years fun!
> 
> CDC knew COVID vax associated with myocarditis but left off post-vax surveys
> 
> ...


I was forced to get it, as condition of employment in the United States military. Some would call that voluntary, could have gotten out, blah blah blah.

My resting heart rate went from mid 40s to low to mid 70s. A week before my second shot I ran a 5k at a 6:30 pace, with a MAX heart rate of 165. A week after my second shot I couldn’t run a mile without my heart rate hitting 210, now I run a 12 minute mile with an average heart rate of 190.

When I approached my doctor, he was all concerned, gave me an echo on the spot and then set me up with a two week wearable monitor (showed erratic rhythm), labs (normal), stress tests (unusable because the tech became distracted and missed a timing window or something). Then he asked when it started and became very dismissive with my symptoms (had to advocate for all those tests) once I said post my second shot. He then told me to stop drinking (I don’t), stop smoking (never have), and cut out fried foods (household allergies means we eat dairy/gluten free, and generally healthy since we don’t replace food for the “healthy” substitutes). My military doctor now says it’s all coincidental, and a low 70 heart rate isn’t bad for my age (34).


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 29, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> I was forced to get it, as condition of employment in the United States military. Some would call that voluntary, could have gotten out, blah blah blah.
> 
> My resting heart rate went from mid 40s to low to mid 70s. A week before my second shot I ran a 5k at a 6:30 pace, with a MAX heart rate of 165. A week after my second shot I couldn’t run a mile without my heart rate hitting 210, now I run a 12 minute mile with an average heart rate of 190.
> 
> When I approached my doctor, he was all concerned, gave me an echo on the spot and then set me up with a two week wearable monitor (showed erratic rhythm), labs (normal), stress tests (unusable because the tech became distracted and missed a timing window or something). Then he asked when it started and became very dismissive with my symptoms (had to advocate for all those tests) once I said post my second shot. He then told me to stop drinking (I don’t), stop smoking (never have), and cut out fried foods (household allergies means we eat dairy/gluten free, and generally healthy since we don’t replace food for the “healthy” substitutes). My military doctor now says it’s all coincidental, and a low 70 heart rate isn’t bad for my age (34).


Dude. That freaking sucks, sorry that went down the way it did. 

We had a completely healthy CRO just magically have a stroke about a week after round two- and it was just sort of sluffed off. 

Like, yeah, ok- 27 y/o marathon running special operator just had this dormant proclivity for blood clots that just so happened to present a week after the only thing that he did differently for months/years. And he never had the 'vid before that, either, so the "long 'vid" hypotheses won't play either.


----------



## Devildoc (Nov 29, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Dude. That freaking sucks, sorry that went down the way it did.
> 
> We had a completely healthy CRO just magically have a stroke about a week after round two- and it was just sort of sluffed off.
> 
> Like, yeah, ok- 27 y/o marathon running special operator just had this dormant proclivity for blood clots that just so happened to present a week after the only thing that he did differently for months/years. And he never had the 'vid before that, either, so the "long 'vid" hypotheses won't play either.



Sadly this isn't the first story like this I've heard.  I have heard a couple similar things from a colleague at Ft. Bragg.

Normally our institution doesn't allow vaccination waivers/declinations.  I was told they are approving every request, not denying a single one.  They ain't talking, but I think they know.


----------



## amlove21 (Nov 29, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Sadly this isn't the first story like this I've heard.  I have heard a couple similar things from a colleague at Ft. Bragg.
> 
> Normally our institution doesn't allow vaccination waivers/declinations.  I was told they are approving every request, not denying a single one.  They ain't talking, but I think they know.


So here is where I feel like I have been taking crazy pills for years. 

We knew early on the shots wouldn't stop spread; that there wasn't a statistically valid reason for young people (18 and under) to receive a shot for nearly any reason; that those in the 18-55 age range should make an individual decision with their healthcare providers especially in the presence of comorbidities but it should have never been mandated; we have anecdotal and empirical evidence supporting everything from government and pharma collusion to pharma obfuscation of the facts and side effects... and yet, here we are. People are still defending and _government officials are still stumping for more shots and people are doing it. _

Uh, tight?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Nov 29, 2022)

This is why I got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, since it was the closest to traditional vaccine tech.  But of course the gubmint having chosen two horses chose to discredit it.  The best part about boosters is that the gubmint told people to do cross boosting if one of their original shot wasn't available.  Also...if you're on booster number 5 or 6 wherever we're at.  It's no different than the first shot.  The only thing you're doing if forcing more mRNA messengers into your body to produce more proteins to do...what exactly?


----------



## Muppet (Nov 29, 2022)

This shit is why I proudly shame those that have/continue to virtue signal regarding masks, jabs, stay home bullshit. Fuck them. If this hits home with you, with respect, you're a fucking useful idiot. 

For those of us, probably most here, we knew it was the case.


----------



## compforce (Nov 29, 2022)




----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Nov 29, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> So here is where I feel like I have been taking crazy pills for years.
> 
> We knew early on the shots wouldn't stop spread; that there wasn't a statistically valid reason for young people (18 and under) to receive a shot for nearly any reason; that those in the 18-55 age range should make an individual decision with their healthcare providers especially in the presence of comorbidities but it should have never been mandated; we have anecdotal and empirical evidence supporting everything from government and pharma collusion to pharma obfuscation of the facts and side effects... and yet, here we are. People are still defending and _government officials are still stumping for more shots and people are doing it. _
> 
> Uh, tight?



It's OK..noone watched my video cause I am on crazy pills.


----------



## Marauder06 (Nov 29, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> I was forced to get it, as condition of employment in the United States military. Some would call that voluntary, could have gotten out, blah blah blah.
> 
> My resting heart rate went from mid 40s to low to mid 70s. A week before my second shot I ran a 5k at a 6:30 pace, with a MAX heart rate of 165. A week after my second shot I couldn’t run a mile without my heart rate hitting 210, now I run a 12 minute mile with an average heart rate of 190.
> 
> When I approached my doctor, he was all concerned, gave me an echo on the spot and then set me up with a two week wearable monitor (showed erratic rhythm), labs (normal), stress tests (unusable because the tech became distracted and missed a timing window or something). Then he asked when it started and became very dismissive with my symptoms (had to advocate for all those tests) once I said post my second shot. He then told me to stop drinking (I don’t), stop smoking (never have), and cut out fried foods (household allergies means we eat dairy/gluten free, and generally healthy since we don’t replace food for the “healthy” substitutes). My military doctor now says it’s all coincidental, and a low 70 heart rate isn’t bad for my age (34).


Sorry to hear that, brother. 

I've always been a shitty runner, I can't blame my run time on the vax.


----------



## pardus (Nov 30, 2022)

@CQB this shit is still going on!!? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597902834087124992


----------



## Muppet (Nov 30, 2022)

pardus said:


> @CQB this shit is still going on!!?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597902834087124992



Avi, the reporter dude has gotten his fair share of arrests/harassment from the ilks and government there.


----------



## AWP (Nov 30, 2022)

Every day an infinitesimal number of oxygen molecules die to keep our species alive.

Please think of the O2. Before it's too late.


----------



## CQB (Nov 30, 2022)

pardus said:


> @CQB this shit is still going on!!?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597902834087124992


No, that finished a while ago. By way of comparison of the two states, yesterday the NSW state govt. rescinded 30,000 fines due to Covid-19;

_"The fines were withdrawn after government lawyers conceded on Tuesday that two test cases brought by the Redfern Legal Centre did not provide sufficient detail about the offence, a breach of the Fines Act. "_

More than 33,000 Covid fines withdrawn in NSW after adverse court ruling

We didn't have that sort of stupidity up here, we had strict ruled in place but nothing like in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Victoria.
What is beyond belief though is they voted the state premier, Dan Andrews, (who was responsible for what took place), back into government last weekend! 
So I'm concluding that the good people of Victoria are by & large stupid. With those of the rural variety an exception. Second, it really says quite a lot about a centre right opposition who couldn't make a dent in the popular vote.
When Covid-19 emerged Dictator Dan, as he is known here had peered into the future & saw that a state election was a couple of years away & concluded that he could in fact succeed with these draconian tactics.


----------



## pardus (Nov 30, 2022)

CQB said:


> No, that finished a while ago. By way of comparison of the two states, yesterday the NSW state govt. rescinded 30,000 fines due to Covid-19;
> 
> _"The fines were withdrawn after government lawyers conceded on Tuesday that two test cases brought by the Redfern Legal Centre did not provide sufficient detail about the offence, a breach of the Fines Act. "_
> 
> ...


That is so fucked, what a bunch of bloody sheep. Well the old saying is, you get the government that you deserve.
I'm honestly disgusted with the governments of Australia and Canada, I thought they were better than that, what with all the govt violence, I expected New Zealand and the USA to roll over like pavlov"s dog to be be honest, which is heart breaking in itself.
Very happy to see that NSW ended up doing the right thing though!


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 1, 2022)

Not optimistic, but hey, it's something. 

GOP senators to withhold support for Defense funding until they get vote to end military vax mandate


----------



## AWP (Dec 2, 2022)

Even the FIA isn't buying China's shyte.

Formula 1 confirms 2023 Chinese Grand Prix will not take place | Formula 1®



> Formula 1 can confirm, following dialogue with the promoter and relevant authorities, that the 2023 Chinese Grand Prix will not take place due to the ongoing difficulties presented by the COVID-19 situation.



"You dumbasses will cost us a ton of money, so we're cutting bait and fishing elsewhere."


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 2, 2022)

AWP said:


> Even the FIA isn't buying China's shyte.
> 
> Formula 1 confirms 2023 Chinese Grand Prix will not take place | Formula 1®
> 
> ...


And when everyone starts realizing this- that individuals and companies- possess the ability to resist with their wallets and their compliance, the power will shift towards the right balance again. It's happening, just slowly.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 2, 2022)

ClutchesPearls.Gif

Rigorous international study of N95 masks upends federal COVID narrative


----------



## AWP (Dec 2, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> ClutchesPearls.Gif
> 
> Rigorous international study of N95 masks upends federal COVID narrative



I has the shock.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 2, 2022)

AWP said:


> I has the shock.


You know, I am old enough to remember (because I am older than 3 years old) the conversation going like this

- Masks work! You're a science denier! MY MASK PROTECTS YOU AND YOUR MASK PROTECTS ME!
- Ok, masks work _at least a little bit_, by stopping me from breathing on YOU with DROPLETS!
- Ok, so, we don't *actually* have any studies proving that masks work, but the Bangladesh study proves they do!
- Ok, so the CLOTH masks don't work- I can't even believe you'd ever believe that lol you're so dumb- we meant N95 masks!
- Ok, so the N95's don't actually work unless they're properly fitted, you NEVER touch them, and they move less than 2-5% on your face (the fit tolerance). 
- Ok, well the masks are still a good idea, even if we don't have any proof, it's not like it's harming children in ways we have never seen in history or setting back their development _years. 
- _Oh, turns out masks of all kinds were not effective at stopping the spread of COVID and the harm they've done is irreparable and unconscionable. We should just like, agree to amnesty? 

To be clear- if you ever supported masks, or asked someone to put a mask on, or tattle-tailed on someone for not having theirs on- go fuck yourself. If you're reading this on the board here and think I am mean, please read words 27-29 in the first sentence. 

/rant


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 2, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> ClutchesPearls.Gif
> 
> Rigorous international study of N95 masks upends federal COVID narrative



How many times did I say on this board that the particle was smaller than what N-95s could filter...


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 2, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How many times did I say on this board that the particle was smaller than what N-95s could filter...


We all did... I just can't wait to find out what other things we were all right about! It's been a fun game.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 2, 2022)

Like I've said, it's all a bunch of fucking bullshit. It's why I refuse to wear em. Fucking assholes who preach on masks are tainted cunts.

Then, then there's this fucking price, lord Fauci...


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 4, 2022)

McCarthy vows military vaccine mandate will end or national defense bill won't move forward



> House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy said the military’s vaccine mandate will be lifted or the national defense bill will not move forward.



Continuing to require a vaccine that doesn't work for what is perhaps the most-healthy large block of people in the federal government is stupid.  But I wonder how this is going to work out.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> McCarthy vows military vaccine mandate will end or national defense bill won't move forward
> 
> 
> 
> Continuing to require a vaccine that doesn't work for what is perhaps the most-healthy large block of people in the federal government is stupid.  But I wonder how this is going to work out.



Well they go on Christmas recess in a week. He becomes Majority leader when they return.  Slam dunk easy win for him. 

I'm still wondering how Austin and Milley have jobs.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 4, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> McCarthy vows military vaccine mandate will end or national defense bill won't move forward
> 
> 
> 
> Continuing to require a vaccine that doesn't work for what is perhaps the most-healthy large block of people in the federal government is stupid.  But I wonder how this is going to work out.


Just noticed that this was the same article @amlove21 posted earlier... my bad...


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 5, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Just noticed that this was the same article @amlove21 posted earlier... my bad...



You're slipping!  How will you survive without a NCO to keep you in check?


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 5, 2022)

If only there was a large cohort of athletes to expand this research..

The impact of Pfizer‐BioNTech’s BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine booster on the maximum oxygen uptake capacity among recreational endurance athletes


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 5, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> If only there was a large cohort of athletes to expand this research..
> 
> The impact of Pfizer‐BioNTech’s BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine booster on the maximum oxygen uptake capacity among recreational endurance athletes


Dude. Our big 4 (football, baseball, basketball and hockey) are all something like 99% vaccinated. Maybe- and this is gonna be crazy here- use the data you can get from them that's readily available. No? GFM? Oh ok cool.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 5, 2022)

Marine Corps commandant says COVID vaccine mandates are hurting recruiting



> The Marine Corps currently mandates vaccination except in the case of religious exemptions, and while Berger stood by the Corps’ current vaccination policy, he did not deny that it has had a noticeable impact on recruiting, highlighting the South in particular.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 5, 2022)

You're gonna have to work for those rednecks, Commandant.....


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 5, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How many times did I say on this board that the particle was smaller than what N-95s could filter...


I distinctly remember you saying that.  Here's one example:

Covid-19


----------



## pardus (Dec 5, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> ClutchesPearls.Gif
> 
> Rigorous international study of N95 masks upends federal COVID narrative


lol that “rigorous” study is about as useful as a condom with speed holes. There are zero controls on the study participants outside of wear this mask at work. Whats going on in the other 12-16 hrs a day of that person’s life? 


ThunderHorse said:


> How many times did I say on this board that the particle was smaller than what N-95s could filter...


Which is why healthcare workers such as myself were mandated to wear a cloth or surgical mask over the N95. This isn’t some shocking new revelation, we’ve known this since early on in the pandemic. N95s work well but like I have to keep telling people about the vaccine, it’s not a guarantee that you’re 100% protected. there’s a reason we get fit tested yearly and a reason why different viruses/diseases require health care workers to wear particular types of masks when making patient contact.


----------



## AWP (Dec 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> there’s a reason we get fit tested yearly and a reason why different viruses/diseases require health care workers to wear particular types of masks when making patient contact.



I'm not pooping on you, just vocalizing the obvious. Using the above, then all we need to do is
1. Identify the bug
2. Identify the proper mask for said bug.
3. Manufacture enough to cover 7-8 billion people, with necessary spares.
4. Go into full militant police mode to ensure they are worn properly 24/7 until the threat passes.
5. Winning!

Y'all keep wearing those skull mouth bandanas so I know who wore TapouT and Affliction back in the day.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> lol that “rigorous” study is about as useful as a condom with speed holes. There are zero controls on the study participants outside of wear this mask at work. Whats going on in the other 12-16 hrs a day of that person’s life?


You're being a silly lil goose! This is silly goose behavior.


----------



## pardus (Dec 5, 2022)

AWP said:


> I'm not pooping on you, just vocalizing the obvious. Using the above, then all we need to do is
> 1. Identify the bug
> 2. Identify the proper mask for said bug.
> 3. Manufacture enough to cover 7-8 billion people, with necessary spares.
> ...


The public mandate for masks was probably the most ridiculous, obtuse and fucked policy I’ve ever had the misfortune to experience, whenever I see someone with a mask I instantly despise them. 


amlove21 said:


> You're being a silly lil goose! This is silly goose behavior.


Speed holes are a thing!


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 5, 2022)

AWP said:


> Y'all keep wearing those skull mouth bandanas so I know who wore TapouT and Affliction back in the day.



How dare you besmirch Affliction! My Affliction shirt and Ed Hardy jeans clearly identified me as the coolest private on every BOSS trip circa 2010 😤


----------



## pardus (Dec 5, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> How dare you besmirch Affliction! My Affliction shirt and Ed Hardy jeans clearly identified me as the coolest private on every BOSS trip circa 2010 😤


One self identification. Next!


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 5, 2022)

pardus said:


> One self identification. Next!


In my defense, I had a squad leader convince 18/19 year old me that it would "make me more attractive to girls in the barracks."

I clearly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 5, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> How dare you besmirch Affliction! My Affliction shirt and Ed Hardy jeans clearly identified me as the coolest private on every BOSS trip circa 2010 😤


The Cain Alvarez shirts were pretty dope though.


----------



## Blizzard (Dec 6, 2022)

Next thing we see @AWP is going to be dumping all over my True Religion jeans too.


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 6, 2022)

Seems like the COVID policy may become no more. Still needs to be voted on/passed first.



> A compromise defense policy bill released Tuesday night would end the Pentagon’s policy requiring troops to receive the Covid vaccine — and kicking out those troops who refuse it — delivering a win to Republicans who railed against the policy.



Seems like anyone currently being outprocessed would be saved, but anyone already kicked out would be SOL.



> But the bill stops short of what some hardcore opponents of the vaccine mandate wanted. Specifically, the Pentagon won’t be required to reinstate troops who were drummed out for not getting the shot or give them back pay.



Defense bill rolls back Pentagon’s Covid vaccine mandate


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 7, 2022)

Dear Senator, 

Thanks for your support.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600331841826828289
Best,


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

When this gets lifted, they should make it right by all of the folks who got disciplined and/or forced out.  Like they did with the repeal of DADT.


----------



## AWP (Dec 7, 2022)

There are a metric shit ton of books, white papers, and degrees to be earned studying the second and third order effects of COVID and the bullshit from 2020. Give it about 10-15 years for the stats to mature (like cancer diagnoses that were missed) and it will knock your socks off.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

We have a vaccine that we know doesn't work, and that many suspect causes unintended short term and long term harm.

We are running a huge budget deficit, and mass vaccinations are expensive.

We are facing a recruiting / retention crisis in our armed forces.

Our armed forces are probably the most-fit, least-at-risk-of-COVID group in the federal government.

I suspect that if we gave them the option, most folks in the military would now decline to receive the COVID vax, for many of the reasons listed above.

^those are just some of the reasons why repealing the military's COVID vax mandate is the right call.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> When this gets lifted, they should make it right by all of the folks who got disciplined and/or forced out.  Like they did with the repeal of DADT.


The logic between the two wouldn't be consistent since the science behind the effectiveness of vaccines against severe hospitalization and death from COVID-19 (and thus maximal troop readiness) hasn't been disproven, but I doubt that fact will play any hand in what dissenting Congressmembers will continue to push.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> The logic between the two wouldn't be consistent since the science behind the effectiveness of vaccines against severe hospitalization and death from COVID-19 (and thus maximal troop readiness) hasn't been disproven, but I doubt that fact will play any hand in what dissenting Congressmembers will continue to push.


They are completely consistent:  bad policy made for political gain, that had a negative impact on the force and individual troops.

On a side note, it's super-hard to prove a negative.  "Prove that the vax you got, which was supposed to keep you from getting COVID but didn't, didn't keep you from getting even sicker."

The vax was supposed to keep us from getting COVID.  It didn't.  It was supposed to keep us from being able to spread it to others.  It didn't.  COVID policy is having a definitiive negative impact on recruiting, retention, and morale. THAT can be proven.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> bad policy made for political gain, that had a negative impact on the force and individual troops.


This is an important point that doesn't negate why the logic for arguing repeal was inconsistent, much less make the comparison completely consistent.


Marauder06 said:


> On a side note, it's super-hard to prove a negative.  "Prove that the vax you got, which was supposed to keep you from getting COVID but didn't, didn't keep you from getting even sicker."


I'm happy to satisfy this valid nitpick with a more positive preface: the logical inconsistency lies in the fact that the vaccine was proven to be effective against severe hospitalization or death from COVID-19 (and thus maximal troop readiness), and this fact this has not been disproven.

Again, none of this will change what dissenting lawmakers will support if reparations considerations get onto the ballot, and I don't think your DADT analogy even needs to be used or justified to sway people who otherwise wouldn't support reparations.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> This is an important point that doesn't negate why the logic for arguing repeal was inconsistent, much less make the comparison completely consistent.


OK then.  Explain to me what was inconsistent in the repeal arguments, because I'm not following.



Locksteady said:


> I'm happy to satisfy this valid nitpick with a more positive preface: the logical inconsistency lies in the fact that the vaccine was proven to be effective against severe hospitalization or death from COVID-19 (and thus maximal troop readiness), and this fact this has not been disproven.


If you're acknowledging its validity, then it is hardly a "nitpick."  To which studies are you referring?  Are these the same ones that told us we wouldn't get COVID if we got vaccinated, and that we couldn't spread it to others?  



Locksteady said:


> Again, none of this will change what dissenting lawmakers will support if* reparations considerations* get onto the ballot, and I don't think your DADT analogy even needs to be used or justified to sway people who otherwise wouldn't support reparations.


I'm sorry, what?  What reparations are you talking about--slavery reparations?  Or "reparations" for being forced out of the military over bad COVID vax policy?

To be clear:  I think that making it right for the people negatively affected by DADT was the right thing to do.  DADT was a stupid policy from the beginning, and it took far too long to die.  Just like... the COVID vax.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> OK then.  Explain to me what was inconsistent in the repeal arguments, because I'm not following.


In short, one of those doesn't have a scientifically-established medical risk factor attached to it to justify command's decisions.



Marauder06 said:


> If you're acknowledging its validity, then it is hardly a "nitpick."


Not in a negative way (people like to use it that way to criticize), but more to emphasize the weight it had in changing the core argument.



Marauder06 said:


> To which studies are you referring?  Are these the same ones that told us we wouldn't get COVID if we got vaccinated, and that we couldn't spread it to others?


Not at all, and to my knowledge those claims were misinformation spread by a LOT of people, including our very own sitting president.

Those claims have never been scientifically proven, and I don't recall any established scientific communities claiming vaccines would prevent transmission rather than reduce the severity and fatality rate of the virus.



Marauder06 said:


> I'm sorry, what?  What reparations are you talking about--slavery reparations?  Or "reparations" for being forced out of the military over bad COVID vax policy?


I only meant #2 from your original post about hoping they'd 'make it right'.  I didn't assume you were requesting the magnitude of reparations associated by group 1.



Marauder06 said:


> To be clear:  I think that making it right for the people negatively affected by DADT was the right thing to do.  DADT was a stupid policy from the beginning, and it took far too long to die.  Just like... the COVID vax.


Yeah I figured so because it would be a very wacky comparison to make otherwise!  I thought it was important to 'nitpick' a key distinction that you'd get more pushback on, at least outside of this community.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 7, 2022)

@Locksteady , you are a silly goose. I can tell, by you exhibiting this silly goose behavior. 

The CDC literally said, "Get the vaccine and you won't spread it to others", and the entire scientific community followed right along. Then the DoD followed. The misinformation was spread by the "established scientifiic communities", and then anyone that said "vaccines don't prevent transmission" was banned. 

Either you're being obtuse, or a silly lil goose. I think the latter.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 7, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> @Locksteady , you are a silly goose. I can tell, by you exhibiting this silly goose behavior.
> 
> The CDC literally said, "Get the vaccine and you won't spread it to others", and the entire scientific community followed right along. Then the DoD followed. The misinformation was spread by the "established scientifiic communities", and then anyone that said "vaccines don't prevent transmission" was banned.
> 
> Either you're being obtuse, or a silly lil goose. I think the latter.


Neither, I think, but I have to rescind part of what I said, because I did a search and realized the CDC itself did claim in 2021 that preliminary evidence suggested the vaccine could possibly prevent transmission, and then redacted their suggestion as more evidence came in that did not support their claim.  In fact, other scientists were more wary about producing a news report based on that emerging evidence just to be safe, and their caution aged better than the CDC's.

As to @Marauder06's question, I'm referring to the international medical community's consensus about vaccines' effectiveness in reducing severe hospitalizations and fatalities from COVID-19, based on months of peer-reviewed research.  That changes none of the points you make about a federal medical organization's willingness to push out misleading early suggestions to encourage more people to follow their suggestions.


----------



## pardus (Dec 7, 2022)

I’ll say it again, the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t going to stop everyone getting Covid, and the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t a magic bullet to stop the transmission of Covid. 
That is all well documented, I’ve personally posted links on this thread showing this. 

Yes there were a LOT of lies spread from politicians and their lackies regarding what the vaccine would do, if you believed the media and politicians then I’m sorry, you were lied to, but spreading word about the vaccine “not working” is misleading, it’s fake news. 
The reason why we locked down and to a lesser degree developed the vaccine was to not overwhelm the hospital system. The covid vaccine should be thought of like the flu vaccine, it will help you to not get sick from Covid, and if you do get sick, it will be less severe than if you’re unvaccinated, and if you’re not as sick your chances of transmitting the virus are less. There’s no magic wand, stop listening to the talking heads on TV and do some research (from valid sources) on your own. 
MEDCRAM posted excellent videos on the pandemic since the first month of the pandemic which helped me immensely while I was working in an ER through the worst of it all and then running a Covid isolation facility for the military.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

pardus said:


> I’ll say it again, the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t going to stop everyone getting Covid, and the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t a magic bullet to stop the transmission of Covid.
> That is all well documented, I’ve personally posted links on this thread showing this.
> 
> Yes there were a LOT of lies spread from politicians and their lackies regarding what the vaccine would do, if you believed the media and politicians then I’m sorry, you were lied to, but spreading word about the vaccine “not working” is misleading, it’s fake news.





pardus said:


> The reason why we locked down and to a lesser degree developed the vaccine was to not overwhelm the hospital system. The covid vaccine should be thought of like the flu vaccine, it will help you to not get sick from Covid, and if you do get sick, it will be less severe than if you’re unvaccinated, and if you’re not as sick your chances of transmitting the virus are less. There’s no magic wand, stop listening to the talking heads on TV and do some research (from valid sources) on your own.
> MEDCRAM posted excellent videos on the pandemic since the first month of the pandemic which helped me immensely while I was working in an ER through the worst of it all and then running a Covid isolation facility for the military.


"The medical community," as represented in the US by Dr. Anthony Fauci, was the primary proponent of the erroneous information.

The vaccine, as was pitched to us by the medical and political communities, and people across the Internet, did not work as advertised.  That's not fake news, that's fact.

If you are encouraging people to do their own research, I have two case studies:  myself, and my father.  Both of us were fully vax'd, both of us got COVID.  My father almost died.  It's entirely possible that getting the vax kept my father from dying, but I'm skeptical.  There is correlation there, but no evidence of causation.  Even understanding that "the plural of anecdote is not data," I know what I was told--what we were all told--about the vaccine, and that information was wrong.  Period.

There are also numerous examples of potential long-term negative health effects for the current COVID vax.  Again, we know it doesn't keep people from getting or spreading COVID, we know it's affecting recruiting and retention, and we know it could have severe negative long term health effects.  I do not think that the current vax's downsides outweigh the good.

Whatever the initial reasons for the lockdown and mask mandate ("2 weeks to flatten the curve"), they remained in place because they were politically expedient.  And they were flatly ignored when it was politically expedient.  (BLM riots, celebrity performances, etc.).

I was in the Army when we were required to get the anthrax vax.  The negative aspects of it outweighed the positives, and it was eventually discontinued, but not before it negatively affected many Soldiers' lives.  it's time for the COVID vax to go the way of anthrax.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 7, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> Neither, I think, but I have to rescind part of what I said, because I did a search and realized the *CDC itself did claim in 2021 that preliminary evidence suggested the vaccine could possibly prevent transmission, and then redacted their suggestion as more evidence came in that did not support their claim.*  In fact, other scientists were more wary about producing a news report based on that emerging evidence just to be safe, and their caution aged better than the CDC's.
> 
> As to @Marauder06's question, I'm referring to the international medical community's consensus about vaccines' effectiveness in reducing severe hospitalizations and fatalities from COVID-19, based on months of peer-reviewed research.  That changes none of the points you make about a federal medical organization's willingness to push out misleading early suggestions to encourage more people to follow their suggestions.


Honk! silly goose!


pardus said:


> *I’ll say it again, the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t going to stop everyone getting Covid, and the scientific community knew the vaccine wasn’t a magic bullet to stop the transmission of Covid.*
> That is all well documented, I’ve personally posted links on this thread showing this.
> 
> Yes there were a LOT of lies spread from politicians and their lackies regarding what the vaccine would do, if you believed the media and politicians then I’m sorry, you were lied to, but spreading word about the vaccine “not working” is misleading, it’s fake news.
> ...


Honk honk! Double silly gooses! So is the research Lock did wrong? Can you both get on the same page, please? 

Two silly geese! Fellas, this is gaslighting, and retconning. Do better.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2022)

I am not sure what "severe hospitalization" is.  But I will say the target audience for whom it was assumed to prevent hospitalization (and death) is not the target audience whom the the military tries to recruit.

Edited to add, if we want to play the game of command decisions with regard to stupid health policies, I can play that game all.  Damn.  Day.  They frequently make medical and health decisions based on zero evidence and nothing more than "because I say so."


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 7, 2022)

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...n/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18

If we are gonna move the goal posts or play no true Scotsman (in this case, I think it's "no true Kiwi?") I guess I will play the "post a link game".

Pfizer said it. The CDC said it. Fauci said it- and HE IS THE SCIENCE. 

Dr. Robert Malone said the opposite and was deplatformed and had his character assassinated. Those are the facts. I don't know what overwhelming scientific majority anyone here is referring to, but it's nonsense. It does not exist. It's a Fugazzi.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> I am not sure what "severe hospitalization" is.  But I will say the target audience for whom it was assumed to prevent hospitalization (and death) is not the target audience whom the the military tries to recruit.
> 
> Edited to add, if we want to play the game of command decisions with regard to stupid health policies, I can play that game all.  Damn.  Day.  They frequently make medical and health decisions based on zero evidence and nothing more than "because I say so."


If I'm being honest, I made plenty of mistakes as a leader/commander during my time in uniform.  But I like to think that when my facts or assumptions changed, my opinion and directives changed as well.

At the beginning, it made sense to me to get the vaccine and wear a mask.  I believed what we were being told, because why would they lie?  And there was plenty of precedence for vaccines, and vaccine mandates, and I know from the gas chamber training that masks can work.

What was especially convincing to me is that the people who were making us get the vaccines and shelter indoors and wear masks were living under the same conditions. 

It made sense... at the beginning.

But then things started not making sense, and other, contradictory evidence began to emerge. And then we found out that _our_ rules, were not _their_ rules.  

Even if we assume "best intentions" in the early years of the pandemic, the facts and assumptions are different now than they were when the pandemic started.  It's time to re-evaluate our decisions and directives.


----------



## pardus (Dec 7, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "The medical community," as represented in the US by Dr. Anthony Fauci, was the primary proponent of the erroneous information.
> 
> The vaccine, as was pitched to us by the medical and political communities, and people across the Internet, did not work as advertised.  That's not fake news, that's fact.
> 
> ...


Fauci is head of NIAID and is on the Corona virus task force, I don't think it is fair to say he represents "the medical community", but as the number one talking head of the coronavirus task force I can see why most people would think that. That said, yes he gave false information to the public and should be held accountable for that IMHO.
The fake news is what they were saying, like I said, people need to stop listening to the talking heads on the TV,  act like sheep and you'll get treated like one.
You and your father's experiences are not a study, they are experiences. I'd say the chances of your father dying would have been greatly increased if he hadn't been vaccinated. Again, people need to stop taking what you are told by politicians and media etc... at face value. 
I'm not up to speed on the side effects except that getting covid while unvaccinated is worse.
Agreed with the lockdowns, a massive and uncalled for violation of people's lives.
My last anthrax shot in the Army was about 2 years ago, so i'm not sure what to stay about that. No the covid vaccine should not be stopped, that would be foolish and detrimental to the Military and the nation's security, it should however be placed in the same category as the flu vaccine.


amlove21 said:


> Honk! silly goose!
> 
> Honk honk! Double silly gooses! So is the research Lock did wrong? Can you both get on the same page, please?
> 
> Two silly geese! Fellas, this is gaslighting, and retconning. Do better.


 I don't know what you're saying here.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 7, 2022)

So these links are probably all over my posts in this thread...but I'll bring them back out since the liberal media has them hidden and unsearchable on the liberal search engine of the google...I remember when google was powerful AF and you could find what you were looking for. 

Pfizer says vaccine will prevent infection 90% of the time...https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/covid-vaccine-pfizer-drug-is-more-than-90percent-effective-in-preventing-infection.html

They did this a few times until it got to 60% and then they pivoted to say it prevented transmission...even though at the time they didn't actually know that

Pfizer admits it did not know its Covid vaccine prevented transmission of virus when rollout began

Then they said it would prevent asymptomatic infection...whatever the heck that meant

Pfizer/BioNTech say COVID-19 vaccine likely to prevent asymptomatic infection

But what we found was that people who were vaccinated had insanely high viral loads...

CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary

Not a great article but you get the point.  

However, you keep voting the way you want San Francisco and the rest of us will get screwed massively.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 7, 2022)

pardus said:


> I don't know what you're saying here.


Oh, I am mocking you for being a silly goose. People usually take mocking a little less personally (as opposed to leveling some hyperbolic and condescending word salad about your biases, fallacies, facts to the otherwise, etc) when you frame it as a grade school taunt. Spoonful of sugar and all that. Here-

What you're saying is demonstrably false. Trying to pretend that "these vaccines prevent transmission" wasn't the case in practice (the overwhelming majority of doctors, scientists, politicians, talking heads, late night hosts, military officials, CDC directors, billionaires, local neighborhood Karens, internet experts, blue checked Twitteratti's) is ridiculous. 

I am saying- stop it. You're not fooling anyone, and doubling down is making it worse.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 7, 2022)

pardus said:


> My last anthrax shot in the Army was about 2 years ago, so i'm not sure what to stay about that. No the covid vaccine should not be stopped, that would be foolish and detrimental to the Military and the nation's security, it should however be placed in the same category as the flu vaccine.



Our anthrax was 20 something years ago.  I finished the series, but then they stopped it.  It had issues. 

I am not sure that stopping the covid vax is detrimental to national security given what we know about it.  In fact, given what we DO know about the side effects, I think there can be an argument that continuing it without supporting data could be detrimental to national security.

Ironic that you mention the flu shot, which has about (depending on year) a 20%-50% efficacy rate.  This year may be a bit better with the quadrivalent vaccine, but we won't know those numbers for a while.

One of the things that drives me batshit crazy is the typical military bullshit of "one size fits none," and instead of looking at the vaccine (ANY vaccine) through the lens of risk : benefit with specific populations or people, they want to go for broke by making it mandatory with a population (i.e., everyone) regardless of the knowledge that the military population (18-38) is the the healthiest segment of the US population with the least risk of long-term sequalae or morbidity.


----------



## pardus (Dec 7, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> https://www.news.com.au/technology/...n/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18
> 
> If we are gonna move the goal posts or play no true Scotsman (in this case, I think it's "no true Kiwi?") I guess I will play the "post a link game".
> 
> ...


Posting nonsense news articles don't help, this is what I've been trying to tell people, stop accepting what every journalist/politician tells you! Primary source studies/material is what people need to look at. 
I agree 100% that orgs/people like the CDC (and I don't know what they said exactly) or Facui need to be held to a higher standard, I've only ever heard pfizer say they never tested it for transmission.  As I stated earlier in this thread, the medical community knew in 2020 that the vaccine was not tested for transmission. 
People also don't understand medical terminology/speak and the way that affects what is said/means. I saw this with Fauci while in front of the Senate, they weren't asking the right questions and not specifically enough, Fauci used that to his advantage.


amlove21 said:


> Oh, I am mocking you for being a silly goose. People usually take mocking a little less personally (as opposed to leveling some hyperbolic and condescending word salad about your biases, fallacies, facts to the otherwise, etc) when you frame it as a grade school taunt. Spoonful of sugar and all that. Here-
> 
> What you're saying is demonstrably false. Trying to pretend that "these vaccines prevent transmission" wasn't the case in practice (the overwhelming majority of doctors, scientists, politicians, talking heads, late night hosts, military officials, CDC directors, billionaires, local neighborhood Karens, internet experts, blue checked Twitteratti's) is ridiculous.
> 
> I am saying- stop it. You're not fooling anyone, and doubling down is making it worse.



Dude, I don't even know what to say to you, I haven't been taking this personally, but It's exasperating for sure. I've posted nothing but verifiable fact or what I genuinely believe is true to the best of my knowledge.  
You don't get to tell me to stop anything, so there's that.
I don't give a shit what anyone believes or doesn't, I worked through the pandemic, I know a little bit about it, and I see people saying things that simply aren't true, which doesn't mean it's malicious.
To me this is just another example of fucked up American politics, one sides says one thing so the other side takes up the opposite view and will die on that hill. Sad and predictable. 
I'm angry about the Covid nonsense too, but spreading falsehoods about it doesn't do either side any good, regardless of the topic. 



Devildoc said:


> Our anthrax was 20 something years ago.  I finished the series, but then they stopped it.  It had issues.
> 
> I am not sure that stopping the covid vax is detrimental to national security given what we know about it.  In fact, given what we DO know about the side effects, I think there can be an argument that continuing it without supporting data could be detrimental to national security.
> 
> ...


Interesting about Anthrax, my first shot was in 2011 I believe, last in about 2020, a series of 5 shots, I wonder if it's a new vaccine?


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 7, 2022)

This isn't just an isolated American problem.  The narrative was the same, hence worldwide "othering" of unvaccinated.  I'm honestly shocked that more unvaccinated weren't rounded up and put in "concentration camps". Oh wait...  looking at you, Australia and Canada.  

Given the majority of the lifelong member's the Church of Covidiots, are still wearing cloth masks made out of old t-shirts and bleaching everything before they go in their house.  Yes, they still exist.  I saw some idiot a few weeks ago in the Wal-Mart parking lot, n95, plus medical mask and cloth mask over top of it.  Spray bottle in gloved hands, "disinfecting" the groceries before being put in their car.  Kept their personalized "hazmat" suit on and drove away, alone in their car.  It doesn't matter who said it or if the science was resolved or not.  It was said, they still believe it and won't accept any changes to the science.  

Articles like these are a big part of the problem, yes they don't say 100% stop spread but the masses don't see that. Also, the fact that it took so long for the scientific community to correct misinformation, speaks volumes.  There's still silence among the majority.  

@pardus no offense, I have the utmost respect for you and what you did during the pandemic.  But because you knew the actual science, means absolutely shit when very powerful and influential assholes were spouting bullshit to divide and guilt trip people into taking a shit vaccine.  They are still pushing it.  

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

Yes, vaccines block most transmission of COVID-19


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 7, 2022)

pardus said:


> Posting nonsense news articles don't help, this is what I've been trying to tell people, stop accepting what every journalist/politician tells you! Primary source studies/material is what people need to look at.
> I agree 100% that orgs/people like the CDC (and I don't know what they said exactly) or Facui need to be held to a higher standard, I've only ever heard pfizer say they never tested it for transmission.  As I stated earlier in this thread, the medical community knew in 2020 that the vaccine was not tested for transmission.
> People also don't understand medical terminology/speak and the way that affects what is said/means. I saw this with Fauci while in front of the Senate, they weren't asking the right questions and not specifically enough, Fauci used that to his advantage.
> 
> ...


To your bolded- those are two different things. I think you've lost the thread as to which is which. And, like you, I am under no expectation to let it happen without impunity. It was more a "Hey, dude, regardless of how you may feel, this isn't a good look." You can continue to do whatever you'd like, but that doesn't mean your opinion is gospel. In this case, it's not even correct.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 7, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So these links are probably all over my posts in this thread...but I'll bring them back out since the liberal *media has them hidden and unsearchable* on the liberal search engine of the google...I remember when google was powerful AF and you could find what you were looking for.



I had a similar thought a little while ago.  I Googled "CDC originally said that COVID vaccine is 100% effective" and the top results are... CDC and Pfizer.  That could simply be based on popularity, or it could be an algorithm to steer people away from "misinformation" of the type I was looking for.  I don't know.  It's a shame that we live in a time where companies, governments, and individuals give us good reason to suspect malfeasance in just about everything.

I also remember when it seemed that anything COVID-19 related that got posted to Facebook got slapped with a warning/info message, and that anything that the power structure didn't like got you throttled or booted completely.  Good times.

Here is an excerpt from an article on why the anthrax vax was paused in 2004:


> A US federal judge has ordered the Department of Defense to halt compulsory anthrax vaccination of soldiers, saying that the Food and Drug Administration violated its own rules by failing to seek public comment before approving the vaccine.
> 
> The Pentagon began a programme to inoculate 2.4 million troops in 1998, and so far 1.2 million have received the shot. But more than 500 members of the armed forces have been disciplined or court-martialled for refusing it. One soldier received a seven month prison sentence.
> 
> ...


"Investigational."  "Informed consent." "Disciplined for not doing it.  "Questionable efficacy."  Does that sound like... I don't know... any other required vaccinations?


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 8, 2022)

Dr. Vinay Prasad, a shining light from the pandemic.  This is almost an hour but worth a watch.





He brought up this study on masks, not sure if it has been brought up yet.

McMaster-led research shows surgical masks as effective as N95 in health-care settings


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 8, 2022)

We've all been lied to. This all goes back to China, the people in their pockets (DC crack smokers), and the useful idiots who've been ideologically compromised by similar foundational beliefs.

On the bright side, we have a clearer picture of who has been selling out American interests for the past 30+ years.
Fauci Says He Dismissed Lab Leak Theory to Placate China - Washington Free Beacon


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 8, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> Neither, I think, but I have to rescind part of what I said, because I did a search and realized the *CDC itself did claim in 2021 that preliminary evidence suggested the vaccine could possibly prevent transmission, and then redacted their suggestion as more evidence came in that did not support their claim.* In fact, other scientists were more wary about producing a news report based on that emerging evidence just to be safe, and their caution aged better than the CDC's.
> 
> As to @Marauder06's question, I'm referring to the international medical community's consensus about vaccines' effectiveness in reducing severe hospitalizations and fatalities from COVID-19, based on months of peer-reviewed research. That changes none of the points you make about a federal medical organization's willingness to push out misleading early suggestions to encourage more people to follow their suggestions.





amlove21 said:


> Honk! silly goose!


Late to the game, but I downvoted this part of your post to make this point:

When someone takes a step back, reevaluates their comments, and then highlights and admits where they were incorrect, using that admission to continue to call them names doesn't encourage a healthy discussion.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 8, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Dr. Vinay Prasad, a shining light from the pandemic.  This is almost an hour but worth a watch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As you know, CDC came out few weeks ago saying opposite, now this. This is why many don't trust. Floundering, back and forth.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> Late to the game, but I downvoted this part of your post to make this point:
> 
> When someone takes a step back, reevaluates their comments, and then highlights and admits where they were incorrect, using that admission to continue to call them names doesn't encourage a healthy discussion.


Meh. Get better ideas and we can avoid this situation next time. Downvote all you'd like, I've seen what makes you cheer.


----------



## Locksteady (Dec 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Meh. Get better ideas and we can avoid this situation next time. Downvote all you'd like, I've seen what makes you cheer.


Cool.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 8, 2022)

NYT finally getting it... 

Opinion | Covid-19 Isn’t a Pandemic of the Unvaccinated Anymore

But the FDA wants to continue pumping shit that doesn't do anything into kids. 
FDA authorizes updated COVID-19 boosters for kids under 5

Can't wait for this experiment to end.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> NYT finally getting it...
> 
> Opinion | Covid-19 Isn’t a Pandemic of the Unvaccinated Anymore
> 
> ...


Here's the cool part- it won't! And the damage is being done in real time. I don't know what changed, but suddenly young healthy people like athletes are just dropping dead from heart attacks and having strokes... but don't worry, y'all, that empirical evidence and anecdotal evidence should be ignored. 

Cause Pfizer funded studies that clearly show these things are being caused by climate change.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> Cause Pfizer funded studies that clearly show these things are being caused by climate change.


...and racism


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> ...and racism


Obviously.   /sarcasm


----------



## Steve1839 (Dec 8, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> ...and racism


Not to mention the patriarchy...


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

Steve1839 said:


> Not to mention the patriarchy...


How could I forget about the patriarchy!


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

House Passes $858 Billion Defense Bill That Reverses Military Vaccine Mandate | The Daily Wire

Well- this just got interesting. Vax mandate is dead.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> House Passes $858 Billion Defense Bill That Reverses Military Vaccine Mandate | The Daily Wire
> 
> Well- this just got interesting. Vax mandate is dead.



The senate still needs to sign off, and apparently the senate democrats have grumbled aloud over it, but have said they won't hold it up over the language.  That way they appear to back Biden and SECDEF, but will allow it to pass.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 8, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> House Passes $858 Billion Defense Bill That Reverses Military Vaccine Mandate | The Daily Wire
> 
> Well- this just got interesting. Vax mandate is dead.



So, every person that got kicked foe refusing it, now what? Fucking federal government.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, every person that got kicked foe refusing it, now what? Fucking federal government.


Nothing. It's written in that people already out aren't going to be reinstated. 


Devildoc said:


> The senate still needs to sign off, and apparently the senate democrats have grumbled aloud over it, but have said they won't hold it up over the language.  That way they appear to back Biden and SECDEF, but will allow it to pass.


I think they have to let it pass, regardless of the whinging. Either way, can't wait to see how the DoD squares the circle on this one.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> Fauci is head of NIAID and is on the Corona virus task force, I don't think it is fair to say he represents "the medical community", but as the number one talking head of the coronavirus task force I can see why most people would think that. That said, yes he gave false information to the public and should be held accountable for that IMHO.
> The fake news is what they were saying, like I said, people need to stop listening to the talking heads on the TV,  act like sheep and you'll get treated like one.





pardus said:


> *You and your father's experiences are not a study*, they are experiences. I'd say the chances of your father dying would have been greatly increased if he hadn't been vaccinated. Again, people need to stop taking what you are told by politicians and media etc... at face value.


I'm well aware of that brother, which is why I said "the plural of anecdotes is not data" in that same post.  I would LOVE to do an apples-to-apples study comparing myself to other COVID-infected people at West Point.  The next step up for me would have been hospitalization.  I don't know how many similarly-healthy unvaccinated West Point officers came down with COVID bad enough to have to be hospitalized.  But I suspect that number is zero.   Why?  Because in a population this isolated and healthy, almost no one (active .mil types) came down with extreme cases of COVID here, vax'd or not, AFAIK.  However, no one wants to go down that road, because they're afraid of the answers they are going to find.  

*related story* from a few years ago:


> Keller Army Community Hospital transformed its former labor and delivery ward into a COVID-19 ward and secured two GeneXpert testing analyzers and the necessary supplies to test more than 8,000 cadets and task force Soldiers between June and August, Capt. Jeffrey Baker, the officer-in-charge of the KACH laboratory, said.



Cool!  How many people are being treated there?



> The ward, which currently has no patients,



Oh.  Well, hey, it's great that you got rid of the maternity ward, which is something we actually needed here, and replaced it with something that treats exactly... <checks notes> no one.



pardus said:


> I'm not up to speed on the side effects except that *getting covid while unvaccinated is worse*.
> Agreed with the lockdowns, a massive and uncalled for violation of people's lives.
> My last anthrax shot in the Army was about 2 years ago, so i'm not sure what to stay about that. No the covid vaccine should not be stopped, that would be foolish and detrimental to the Military and the nation's security, it should however be placed in the same category as the flu vaccine.


How?  How do we know that getting COVID while unvax'd is worse?  And is having a marginally-worse case of COVID (you're in bed two more days than you would have been) better or worse than the side effects that we see cropping up in reports everywhere (dude, my heart's about to explode!)?

Put the vax on hold.  Do the studies... long term, untainted studies (if such things are possible any more)... admit mistakes... hold people accountable where necessary... then, when trust is restored and efficacy verified, maybe then reinstitute.


----------



## AWP (Dec 8, 2022)

Y'all are looking at this the wrong way. "Inclusion" is the word here. For years our government conducted medical tests on black men, prisoners, and "handicapable" persons, all without their knowledge or consent. It's only fair that white middle-class America have a go at the process.

The CV-19 vax needed test subjects and what better way to gain them "voluntarily" than fear?


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 8, 2022)

AWP said:


> Y'all are looking at this the wrong way. "Inclusion" is the word here. For years our government conducted medical tests on black men, prisoners, and "handicapable" persons, all without their knowledge or consent. It's only fair that white middle-class America have a go at the process.
> 
> The CV-19 vax needed test subjects and what better way to gain them "voluntarily" than fear?


This comment was magnificent. Well played.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Y'all are looking at this the wrong way. "Inclusion" is the word here. For years our government conducted medical tests on black men, prisoners, and "handicapable" persons, all without their knowledge or consent. It's only fair that white middle-class America have a go at the process.
> 
> The CV-19 vax needed test subjects and what better way to gain them "voluntarily" than fear?



3 blocks where I grew up in Philly is Holmesburg prison, opened in 1896, something like that. Had a few neighbors that were COs.

Anyhow, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, they had some doc that was forcing inmates, most black to take experiments of all kind that resulted in illness and trauma, with the promise of money. Big investigations in 70s.
Chilling Details About The Human Experiments At Holmesburg Prison - Grunge


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2022)

RSV is the new COVID, and I got it.  Damn.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> RSV is the new COVID, and I got it.  Damn.


You’ll crush it, Doc. Hope you feel better. 

Also- lil update. Everyone already tracking the mandate going away- and the command is saying, “Well, it won’t be mandated. But! That just means we have to stop punishing whoever is getting punished. If you want to go TDY or deploy, we are going to make it mandatory in that context.”

Legitimately segregating the force into two distinct groups in the name of ‘readiness’.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

AWP said:


> Y'all are looking at this the wrong way. "Inclusion" is the word here. For years our government conducted medical tests on black men, prisoners, and "handicapable" persons, all without their knowledge or consent. It's only fair that white middle-class America have a go at the process.
> 
> The CV-19 vax needed test subjects and what better way to gain them "voluntarily" than fear?


Want to play a fun game?  Google "medical experiments on white Americans" and see what pops up.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> RSV is the new COVID, and I got it.  Damn.



What's the fucking chances brother! You breathing ok?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2022)

Muppet said:


> What's the fucking chances brother! You breathing ok?



Yeah, but the rattling cough is killing me.  I have been sick for over two weeks now with it.  At first I thought it was just "a bad cold", but then I started chatting with one of our ED docs, he was telling me about all the adults coming in with RSV.  The S/S fit to a penny.

I asked him about testing, he said "nah, it's a virus, we'd tell you to do the same thing as with any other respiratory virus anyway."  But he said, "yeah, you got it."


----------



## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Yeah, but the rattling cough is killing me.  I have been sick for over two weeks now with it.  At first I thought it was just "a bad cold", but then I started chatting with one of our ED docs, he was telling me about all the adults coming in with RSV.  The S/S fit to a penny.
> 
> I asked him about testing, he said "nah, it's a virus, we'd tell you to do the same thing as with any other respiratory virus anyway."  But he said, "yeah, you got it."



Tessalon pearls for cough?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Tessalon pearls for cough?



That's worth a try.  I have some from last year's COVID.  What I want is either codeine cough syrup or phenergan cough syrup, but everyone's afraid to prescribe it anymore.


----------



## Polar Bear (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> That's worth a try.  I have some from last year's COVID.  What I want is either codeine cough syrup or phenergan cough syrup, but everyone's afraid to prescribe it anymore.


LOL, everyone loves codeine cough syrup. Funny story I was about 18 or 19 living with my dad. Had a horrible cough and just felt like shit. Dad says try this, old scrip. About 4 am I wake up to pee. I get up and fall straight into the wall. Yell for my dad, he comes in flips on the light. I tell him what happen. He helps me to the bathroom. “Your eyes are as big as saucers, how much of that cough syrup did you take?“ “exactly what the bottle says 2 table spoons” “you idiot it says teaspoons“ lesson learn lol


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> LOL, *everyone loves codeine cough syrup.* Funny story I was about 18 or 19 living with my dad. Had a horrible cough and just felt like shit. Dad says try this, old scrip. About 4 am I wake up to pee. I get up and fall straight into the wall. Yell for my dad, he comes in flips on the light. I tell him what happen. He helps me to the bathroom. “Your eyes are as big as saucers, how much of that cough syrup did you take?“ “exactly what the bottle says 2 table spoons” “you idiot it says teaspoons“ lesson learn lol



Yes, yes they do.  It works and it is one of the few cough control products that can actually help you sleep instead of hacking the night away.

When I was a corpsman I would give that stuff out like candy; and until recently, my doc would prescribe it willy-nilly.  But now with the crackdown on opioids and addictive medicine the state medical board is looking at these closely, so no one wants to prescribe it anymore.

Two tablespoons lol.  That's DWI territory.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 9, 2022)

It's good shit for sure...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> RSV is the new COVID, and I got it.  Damn.



Well, at least in this case an mRNA vaccine might have some efficacy? BUT WAIT...they don't have any approved mRNA treatments...



amlove21 said:


> You’ll crush it, Doc. Hope you feel better.
> 
> Also- lil update. Everyone already tracking the mandate going away- and the command is saying, “Well, it won’t be mandated. But! That just means we have to stop punishing whoever is getting punished. If you want to go TDY or deploy, we are going to make it mandatory in that context.”
> 
> Legitimately segregating the force into two distinct groups in the name of ‘readiness’.



I think what they will find is that their readiness will drop.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, at least in this case an mRNA vaccine might have some efficacy? BUT WAIT...they don't have any approved mRNA treatments...
> 
> 
> 
> I think what they will find is that their readiness will drop.


"We can't "make" you get it, but if  you want any chance of a real career..."


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 9, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Well, at least in this case an mRNA vaccine might have some efficacy? BUT WAIT...they don't have any approved mRNA treatments...



I think the proposed vaccine is a protein based vaccine?  I don't know much about it.  I DO know it'll be focused to the young and the old, the two pop groups most likely to have high mortality and morbidity.


----------



## Andoni (Dec 9, 2022)

Took this photo last year of signage on the wall of the county vital records office. Passed 99 years after the 1924 law went into effect. Seems like a real mixed bag for their target demographic-  possible compensation.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 9, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> RSV is the new COVID, and I got it.  Damn.



It is going around the RDU something fierce.


----------



## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

Orlando is getting schwacked with some crud right now and all of the cool kids are down with sinus and lung butter. Legends, like my household, are so un-phased we're tacking on double conjunctivitis.

Pink eye is disgusting. Ever had to scrape pus or whatever off of your eyeball? Dig caked yellow shit out of your tear ducts? Gross.

One plus from 2020's back alley abortion socio-medical experiment is now everything is compared to COVID. COVID is now THE standard by which all colds, flus, broken bones, lacerations, cancers, whatever medical conditions are judged. While part of that statement is dramatic flair, smart people see where I'm going with my sarcasm. COVID isn't A benchmark, it is THE benchmark. I think that subtle shift of the needle is rather troubling.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 9, 2022)

Muppet said:


> So, every person that got kicked foe refusing it, now what? Fucking federal government.




Service members kicked out for refusing Covid vaccine may be let back in


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Service members kicked out for refusing Covid vaccine may be let back in


I don't think this happens. And if it does, I think the amount of people getting back in is real, real low. 

All the reflections we are getting is "no TDY, no deployment" without the shot, and I doubt Austin backs off that one.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 9, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> I don't think this happens. And if it does, I think the amount of people getting back in is real, real low.
> 
> All the reflections we are getting is "no TDY, no deployment" without the shot, and I doubt Austin backs off that one.



I’m sorry to hear this.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 9, 2022)

Gunz said:


> I’m sorry to hear this.


Gunz, we all are. But it is what it is.


----------



## AWP (Dec 9, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> All the reflections we are getting is "no TDY, no deployment" without the shot, and I doubt Austin backs off that one.



"Nah, see, we aren't tossing them out over the shot, they just can't contribute in any meaningful way to the force. The mission will still be done, just by servicemembers selling their souls while others still make rank and still retire all without...you know, doing what a military is supposed to do. This will cause no resentment whatsoever in the force and will totally, pinky swear, not impact our retention numbers."


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 10, 2022)

British Columbia, Canada's California; has gone full covidtard. 

BC moves towards mandatory vaccination of all health care providers | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 11, 2022)

Little to late but good to see these studies coming out.  

Study says COVID vaccine mandates for university students causing 'net harm' - CommonWealth Magazine


----------



## Muppet (Dec 11, 2022)

WETSU on Instagram: "A half second away from a bad day. #slipaway"

Would have been a cool thing until you see it. Fucking dumb.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 11, 2022)

Muppet said:


> WETSU on Instagram: "A half second away from a bad day. #slipaway"
> 
> Would have been a cool thing until you see it. Fucking dumb.


The fucking insanity. Wearing a reserve that kills jumpers, doing dangerous shit with weak exits, wearing masks in a fucking open aircraft. The absolute dumbest shit I’ve seen today.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 11, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> The fucking insanity. Wearing a reserve that kills jumpers, doing dangerous shit with weak exits, wearing masks in a fucking open aircraft. The absolute dumbest shit I’ve seen today.



It's funny. Look at the comments on the OP. The same comments left.


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 11, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> The fucking insanity. Wearing a reserve that kills jumpers, doing dangerous shit with weak exits, wearing masks in a fucking open aircraft. The absolute dumbest shit I’ve seen today.



What's this about the reserve being dangerous? I don't think I've ever heard that outside of jumper error.

Agree with everything else. We still jumped during COVID, but we just tested before manifest. No masks on the birds


----------



## AWP (Dec 11, 2022)

Everyone's hard on a daytime Hollywood jump. I picked up 2 inches just clicking on the link...


----------



## AWP (Dec 11, 2022)

@Muppet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601894132573605888


----------



## Muppet (Dec 11, 2022)

AWP said:


> @Muppet
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601894132573605888



Pure gold


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 12, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> What's this about the reserve being dangerous? I don't think I've ever heard that outside of jumper error.
> 
> Agree with everything else. We still jumped during COVID, but we just tested before manifest. No masks on the birds


The T-11R's handle (red) has killed multiple jumpers. One of them I watched from about 6 feet away; we still have not recovered Cole. The article repeatedly says "improperly configured", which I disagree with as a guy that was there competing in the skills competition (ST Rodeo). Our team was next to jump after Cole's team, so we were on the plane. I configured my team to immediately jump to Cole, but the pilots/command told me they "couldn't accept the risk" of putting our team in the water. I stayed on for about a week, diving and doing dive supervisor ops for the search. Tragic isn't nearly a strong enough word. Worst event of my career. 

The handle catches wind/air and deploys itself. You know it's bad when the Army has to reverse engineer a fix- the yellow 'tuck tabs' that JMs and 1st jumpers in the door are required to use- to stop the chute from opening on it's own when exposed to the outside air safety check. The stand down and investigation that followed was a lot of finger pointing.


----------



## Cookie_ (Dec 12, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> The handle catches wind/air and deploys itself. You know it's bad when the Army has to reverse engineer a fix- the yellow 'tuck tabs' that JMs and 1st jumpers in the door are required to use- to stop the chute from opening on it's own when exposed to the outside air safety check.



Gotcha. I didn't become airborne until late 2019, and I didn't have my cherry jump until after tuck tabs became standard practice.



amlove21 said:


> The article repeatedly says "improperly configured", which I disagree with as a guy that was there competing in the skills competition (ST Rodeo). Our team was next to jump after Cole's team, so we were on the plane. I configured my team to immediately jump to Cole, but the pilots/command told me they "couldn't accept the risk" of putting our team in the water. I stayed on for about a week, diving and doing dive supervisor ops for the search. Tragic isn't nearly a strong enough word. Worst event of my career.



That's an awful situation and bullshit your team wasn't allowed to immediately assist. 

That's terrible all around.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 12, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Gotcha. I didn't become airborne until late 2019, and I didn't have my cherry jump until after tuck tabs became standard practice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah man, I appreciate it. The other PJ they mentioned in the article that died during the mountaineering event (Peter Kraines) was a good friend of mine- the TL that worked on him unsuccessfully was also a close friend. Those events happened within a month of each other.

Anyway- I hate that chute as a JM and a jumper. The fact that the Army and Air Force look at the several events that the chute failed and blame the jumpers/JM's enfuriates me.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 12, 2022)

Fucking awful. I was on jump status from 95-99. We jumped T10c/whatever the reserves were, don't recall. I also worked a few jump fatalities, one sticks in my head, still to this day. Fucking government will maintain a chute that obviously had issues, puts a fucking band aid on it (half asses it) and then blames others. 

Army/Airforce/government doing what government does.


----------



## AWP (Dec 12, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> blame the jumpers/JM's enfuriates me.



The AF has ruined many careers to cover its 
Ass or those of its pilots. The early F-16 wiring harness failures come to mind. Any incident involving an a/c becomes the Spider-Man meme with pilots, ATC, and various support staff playing roles.

It’s bullshit, but Air Force gonna’ Air Force.


----------



## 757 (Dec 12, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602275987907137544


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 13, 2022)

GEN Petraeus doesn’t understand what the fuss is all about. 

Gen. Petraeus says Ukraine, military readiness top priorities for NDAA, vax mandate outrage ‘manufactured’


----------



## Muppet (Dec 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> GEN Petraeus doesn’t understand what the fuss is all about.
> 
> Gen. Petraeus says Ukraine, military readiness top priorities for NDAA, vax mandate outrage ‘manufactured’



He's a fucking hack. A government hack.


----------



## AWP (Dec 13, 2022)

Wait, people still pay attention to anything Petraeus has to say? Huh.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 13, 2022)

AWP said:


> Wait, people still pay attention to anything Petraeus has to say? Huh.


Once you're famous in America, it never really goes away.  You could literally get caught jacking off on a work call, and if you're famous enough, you'll get to keep your job.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Once you're famous in America, it never really goes away.  You could literally get caught jacking off on a work call, and if you're famous enough, you'll get to keep your job.


The kids call that a Toobin!


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 13, 2022)

AWP said:


> The AF _military_ has ruined many careers to cover its
> Ass or those of its pilots. The early F-16 wiring harness failures come to mind. Any incident involving an a/c becomes the Spider-Man meme with pilots, ATC, and various support staff playing roles.
> 
> It’s bullshit, but Air Force _military_ gonna’ Air Force _military_.



Fixed it.

Saw same shit in the Navy and Marines.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 13, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Fixed it.
> 
> Saw same shit in the Navy and Marines.



It’s a thing. Always been a thing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 13, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> GEN Petraeus doesn’t understand what the fuss is all about.
> 
> Gen. Petraeus says Ukraine, military readiness top priorities for NDAA, vax mandate outrage ‘manufactured’


General Betrayus needs to find Jesus.


----------



## AWP (Dec 13, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> General Betrayus needs to find Jesus.


Or some double aught Listerine…


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 13, 2022)

I'd like to think doctors would have better things to do but this explains why many family doctors in Ontario still refuse to see patients in person.
I don't even need to look at the data to come up with my own hypothesis.   Vaccinated are more likely to hide in their bubbles and are more hesitant to drive, resulting in less crashes.  

COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy associated with increased risk of traffic crashes in Ontario: study  | Globalnews.ca


----------



## AWP (Dec 14, 2022)

I’m all about telemedicine when appropriate, but as a layman I wonder how many “larger” issues are missed because you aren’t face-to-face with your doc. Eh, I guess mortality rates in 20 years can tell that tale.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 14, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> I'd like to think doctors would have better things to do but this explains why many family doctors in Ontario still refuse to see patients in person.
> I don't even need to look at the data to come up with my own hypothesis.   Vaccinated are more likely to hide in their bubbles and are more hesitant to drive, resulting in less crashes.
> 
> COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy associated with increased risk of traffic crashes in Ontario: study  | Globalnews.ca


What a garbage study.  “Simple immune activation against a coronavirus, for example, has no direct effect on the risk of a motor vehicle crash,” but also "hey, let's do a study to prove how stupid anti-vax'ers are.  Correlation = causation!!"


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 14, 2022)

AWP said:


> I’m all about telemedicine when appropriate, but as a layman I wonder how many “larger” issues are missed because you aren’t face-to-face with your doc. Eh, I guess mortality rates in 20 years can tell that tale.



Already happened and continuing, because they refuse to acknowledge actual science because they are stuck in the covid "science" bubble.  I personally know of 3 people in their 30's and 40's with a stage 4 diagnosis.

Delayed or missed health care may have led to thousands of non-COVID-19 related deaths during pandemic: report

Secondary losses: The impact of the pandemic on Canadians with cancer - Healthy Debate

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-late-stage-cancer-1.6466823


----------



## AWP (Dec 14, 2022)

And all of that dovetails with observations I made back in 2020, but what do any of us know…


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 14, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> Already happened and continuing, because they refuse to acknowledge actual science because they are stuck in the covid "science" bubble.  I personally know of 3 people in their 30's and 40's with a stage 4 diagnosis.
> 
> Delayed or missed health care may have led to thousands of non-COVID-19 related deaths during pandemic: report
> 
> ...


Not to mention the loss of confidence in government and the medical field, which is going to manifest itself the next time there's a big health scare.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2022)

AWP said:


> I’m all about telemedicine when appropriate, but as a layman I wonder how many “larger” issues are missed because you aren’t face-to-face with your doc. Eh, I guess mortality rates in 20 years can tell that tale.



What gets missed depends on assessment algorithms and provider experience, as well as nature of patient complaint.  There's pretty good data supporting telemedicine, but to a point.

Telemedicine isn't new, but has definitely been pushed out since COVID.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2022)

Speaking of COVID and respiratory crud, per oncology insistence, I'm sitting in urgent care to be evaluated....


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 14, 2022)

@Devildoc hope it's just your generic crud and it clears up.  

My wife's work had their first client Christmas party on Friday, since the pandemic.  First covid outbreak in a year, across multiple independent and community living building's, as well as staff.  There may have been a lot of "socializing", initiated by the female addictions treatment clients; that showed up without underwear.  
Good thing the wife is high enough, she doesn't get stuck running events and wasn't there.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 14, 2022)

Pneumonia, RSV, and likely bacterial sinusitis.


----------



## 757 (Dec 14, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Pneumonia, RSV, and likely bacterial sinusitis.


Oof, I hope you get better soon Doc.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 14, 2022)

Excellent discussion between a Family Medicine and an ER doctor, in Ontario.  They don't pull any punches, doctors have gotten soft, doing virtual medicine and have forgotten what their job is.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 14, 2022)

BUT BUT BUT GUYS. WE SHOULD ALWAYS POST LINKS AND NEVER DISCOUNT VERIFIED PEER REVIEWED SCIENCE BECAUSE IF WE DO THAT WE UNDERMINE GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE OF SOCIETY. 

This is why I can give zero fucks about the "medical community" and "scientific community" anymore. Just ridiculous. 

Why don't we have a universally accepted "sarcasm" font yet? We have the technology. It takes me too long to MaKe WoRdS lOoK like that.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 14, 2022)

I am sure the medical community knew about the skeletal structural deformities in the offspring of rats in 2020, before we started recommending that children as young as 6 months be injected with it. Or, conversely, the medical community knew exactly shit and was operating on collusion with the primary purveyor of medical misinformation, the US Government. 



Some offspring of Moderna mRNA vaccine test rats born with skeletal deformities: Judicial Watch


----------



## Muppet (Dec 14, 2022)

Get better doc.

Just got back to station. Medic call to local urgent care in neighboring Township for chest pain/altered mental status, 74 female.

Get there, 74 female, alert and oriented. Positive for rona, cold s/sx only, no resp. distress or chest pain, only chest discomfort with breathing/coughing, pulse ox 98%, stable vitals, clear lung sounds, medical h/x of stuff.

No family, urgent care doc called PCP, PCP orders ED eval. 

Pt. states: I don't see people, I have 5 vaccines, including pneumococcal, all of it, I wear masks, how did I get sick and why can't urgent care treat me?

Great question. This is why EDs are busy, this fucking bullshit. Its not the ladies fault. Urgent care could most likely give that anti-viral Phizer is pushing secondary to pre-existing medical issues/plague positive. No, ship her to ED.

Bold move cotton. Let's see how this plays out.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 15, 2022)

I'm still seeing nurses and paramedics I know that have virtue signaled, continue to do so on social media.

I had one nurse tell me, when I was not wearing a mask, "oh, please wear a mask, wear 2! We are so overwhelmed, we are tired. This is so vital we do what the CDC and leaders tell us for our safety".

My response? Wow, you really fell for it, huh? Lord Fauci renting space in your head.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> for our safety".


This is the new “_for the children_”.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 15, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I'm still seeing nurses and paramedics I know that have virtue signaled, continue to do so on social media.
> 
> I had one nurse tell me, when I was not wearing a mask, "oh, please wear a mask, wear 2! We are so overwhelmed, we are tired. This is so vital we do what the CDC and leaders tell us for our safety".
> 
> My response? Wow, you really fell for it, huh? Lord Fauci renting space in your head.



"Oh honey, why don't you just go ahead and wear a third mask for me?  It will be just as effective."


----------



## Muppet (Dec 15, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> "Oh honey, why don't you just go ahead and wear a third mask for me?  It will be just as effective."



Took my pop to eye doctor a few months back, the front desk lady told my pop he needed to put a second mask on.

My pops response, in his no filtered attitude?

Lady, fuck you with your mask shit, take my fucking co pay. 

Crickets.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 15, 2022)

Truth


----------



## Muppet (Dec 15, 2022)

City Tavern - Wikipedia

I knew this happened but forgot. As some may know, I'm a huge American revolution Era nerd, born/raised Philly. When my mom beat lung cancer, she wanted to do dinner here, my pop and I were planning with Maria to take my mom there, but, mom had a stroke and died not long after. My mom loved Walter Staib and had his cook books.

Anyway, fucking Philly and their gay covid mandates destroyed this and many other places. The anger this causes me wants to see those responsible, suffer. God damn cunts.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 16, 2022)

“Safe and Effective”. 

Lemme guess- the medical community knew this caused myocarditis in 2020? The study isn’t good enough? Anecdotal and empirical evidence that’s plainly apparent isn’t welcome? 

Anyone? Beuller? Anyone?


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 41165
> “Safe and Effective”.
> 
> Lemme guess- the medical community knew this caused myocarditis in 2020? The study isn’t good enough? Anecdotal and empirical evidence that’s plainly apparent isn’t welcome?
> ...



Don't leave us hanging!  What was the conclusion?


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 16, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Don't leave us hanging!  What was the conclusion?


All the myocarditis. German study.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 16, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Don't leave us hanging!  What was the conclusion?


“You still need to have all of the shots.  Two mot jabs to flatten the curve.”


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 16, 2022)

What would the pioneers do...


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 16, 2022)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 41165
> “Safe and Effective”.
> 
> Lemme guess- the medical community knew this caused myocarditis in 2020? The study isn’t good enough? Anecdotal and empirical evidence that’s plainly apparent isn’t welcome?
> ...



The rate of myocarditis in elite athletes after vaccination vs it being a long term post covid symptom is rather frightening. But hey, pump that Pfizer shit into your four year old.


----------



## amlove21 (Dec 16, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> The rate of myocarditis in elite athletes after vaccination vs it being a long term post covid symptom is rather frightening. But hey, pump that Pfizer shit into your four year old.


*6 month old. Fixed it for you.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 17, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> Don't leave us hanging!  What was the conclusion?


Autopsy-based histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination


----------



## AWP (Dec 18, 2022)

Ron DeSantis is going to leverage the vaccine's woes into a new address in DC. Just wait.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/13/politics/desantis-covid-vaccine-manufacturers/index.html



> Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday asked his state’s Supreme Court to green-light an investigation of “any and all wrongdoing in Florida with respect to Covid-19 vaccines,” his latest move to cast doubt on the vaccines’ effectiveness and amplify fears about side effects.
> 
> In the petition filed with the Florida Supreme Court, the Republican governor requests the empaneling of a grand jury to investigate a broad group of entities associated with the development, distribution and promotion of the vaccines, including pharmaceutical manufacturers and their executive officers, as well as medical associations.
> 
> DeSantis also said Tuesday he was launching a public health integrity committee – a panel that would counter the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which DeSantis said “is not serving a useful function; it’s really serving to advance narratives rather than do evidence-based medicine.” The panel would assess guidance and actions from federal agencies, such as the National Institutes of Health, US Food and Drug Administration and the CDC.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 18, 2022)

AWP said:


> The panel would assess guidance and actions from federal agencies, such as the National Institutes of Health, US Food and Drug Administration and the CDC.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 21, 2022)

Crazy, like we shut down gyms, closed parks, took down basketball hoops, cooped people up in their houses, told them not to go outside. I must be taking crazy pills because I said that physical exercise and training was the prescription for prevention and stuff. And oh golly gee willikers the medical orthodoxy is catching up with bro science from two years ago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605764077988388864


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 22, 2022)

Interesting tidbit. China managed to implement covid lockdowns that would have made Fauci and the CDC drool. China's population has no natural immunity. Covid is burning through the population and CCP officials are implementing a herd immunity strategy, to get everyone sick or exposed by/before March when the politburo reconvenes.





That said, China is cutting deals for paxlovid via pfizer. Wondering how ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine use will play out in China.
China health app starts online sales of Pfizer's Paxlovid for COVID treatment

What does this have to do with this thread? I wonder how many drugs that were demonized in the US, because "_orange man bad"_, will be used in China. I also wonder how many of our people died, because worthless trash decided to demonize/cancel lifesaving medications.

Not that it'll do China much good, as they're supposedly overwhelming their health facilities. That's on top of China being old and sickly, not to mention how messed up their medical system is. I hope they fucking fracture.


----------



## AWP (Dec 22, 2022)

I'll be a dick and type what some of you are thinking: a couple hundred million dead Chinese means nothing to me. Baby Mao can execute whatever COVID protocols he wants and when the country burns down and the Apples and Nikes of the world find a new source of child slave labor, I'll pour out a 40oz for the Martyrs of Change.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 22, 2022)

They are really grasping...


----------



## Muppet (Dec 22, 2022)

RackMaster said:


> They are really grasping...



Fucking daft cunts. Fear mongering.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 24, 2022)

Pops and I were rehashing the fucking dumb lock downs of hospital. My pops said, "that's ancient news bro".

My response? Jesus Christ dad! That's the problem! Folks bent over backwards and allowed non science based mandates by assholes at hospitals to dictate if/when you can see your loved ones. Fucking idiots fell for it under the guise of safety when all it was, was control and litigation issues. If masks worked, it would have not made a difference.

Case in point: 

Maria's mom was in hospital, the mandates were changed daily, her mom fell in hospital, they tried to prevent us from seeing her, till I made a fucking scene, they we were allowed up, one at a time, WITH security, like we were convicts. What changed? If mandates mattered, we would have been ejected from hospital, instead, powers that be allowed us up, proved my point, it's about safety.

Maria's uncle Feto died in hospice at a local trauma center in North Philly. ALONE! Fucking alone. Why? He was covid negative, entire hospice ward was negative. 

Dad, it's not history, this was a test, it will happen again and assholes will follow rules, to the box cars.


----------



## RackMaster (Dec 26, 2022)

The latest from the Twitter Files has more relevance in this discussion. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607378386338340867


----------



## AWP (Dec 26, 2022)

Here’s the Twitter leak I want to read.


----------



## AWP (Dec 26, 2022)

Hopefully there's another Twitter dump on the 'Rona. Regardless, it is interesting that the Trump and Biden administrations were involved in censorship, but Team Biden really went hard in the paint. Two (probably a third) presidential administrations used Twitter to suppress information while speaking with a forked tongue about free speech. My outhouse lawyer's memory is that the 1st Amendment means the gov't can't suppress your speech, but companies can. Twitter took input from the government and used that to suppress free speech, so how is any of this legal? And we haven't even touched upon the FBI.

Republicans and Democrats can talk about free speech, but I'd politely suggest they fuck off based on what we're seeing from the Twitter dumps.

And this is just Twitter, imagine what the other platforms were doing.

BTdubs, remember that DeSantis is going after the government over COVID and the vaccine. These Twitter dumps are going to put him in the WH. He and some others are going to come out of this looking like Nostradamus.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 26, 2022)

AWP said:


> Hopefully there's another Twitter dump on the 'Rona. Regardless, it is interesting that the Trump and Biden administrations were involved in censorship, but Team Biden really went hard in the paint. Two (probably a third) presidential administrations used Twitter to suppress information while speaking with a forked tongue about free speech. My outhouse lawyer's memory is that the 1st Amendment means the gov't can't suppress your speech, but companies can. Twitter took input from the government and used that to suppress free speech, so how is any of this legal? And we haven't even touched upon the FBI.
> 
> Republicans and Democrats can talk about free speech, but I'd politely suggest they fuck off based on what we're seeing from the Twitter dumps.
> 
> ...



Pretty sure colluding err I mean _cooperating _with the government in such a faction violates section 230 in some regard.  No longer protected as they're now acting as a publisher rather than a platform, you know something Trump was trying to go after (yeah the admin used the tool while it was there), the amount of people that need to go to Prison but won't just makes me full of rage.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 26, 2022)

Senior Biden administration figures urging Big Tech for censorship “beyond COVID-19.”   

Rachel Levine ripped for demanding censorship of 'misinformation' on 'gender-affirming care' for kids

Just… wow. 

“BUT IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!”


----------



## Muppet (Dec 26, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Senior Biden administration figures urging Big Tech for censorship “beyond COVID-19.”
> 
> Rachel Levine ripped for demanding censorship of 'misinformation' on 'gender-affirming care' for kids
> 
> ...



Levine is a fucking shill. It used to be secretary of health here in PA. Fucking woke medicine. It deserves to be tar and feathered....


----------



## AWP (Dec 26, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Senior Biden administration figures urging Big Tech for censorship “beyond COVID-19.”
> 
> Rachel Levine ripped for demanding censorship of 'misinformation' on 'gender-affirming care' for kids
> 
> ...



Someone please explain to me how this does not violate the 1st Amendment.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 26, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> Senior Biden administration figures urging Big Tech for censorship “beyond COVID-19.”
> 
> Rachel Levine ripped for demanding censorship of 'misinformation' on 'gender-affirming care' for kids
> 
> ...



This thing, and it's a thing, needs to be in a prison.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 27, 2022)

So, please stop taking the shots. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607805259287756801


----------



## Muppet (Dec 27, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, please stop taking the shots.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607805259287756801



I took the first set of Phizer, knowing what I was "told/learned". When I learned more, I refused the third, same as my wife and others. It's a shame that many providers I know that have gotten number 5 now. 

I'll pass.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 27, 2022)

“Have some more Kool-Aid.” — Jim Jones


----------



## GOTWA (Dec 27, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, please stop taking the shots.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607805259287756801


Sounds like a perfect opportunity for pfizer to sell a 16 shot series reversal. We can call it the revooster.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 28, 2022)

How the shit did I miss this? So Crypto mega donor Democrat bankrolled the study to say Ivermectin was ineffective holy shit fuck.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592597971727962113


----------



## policemedic (Dec 28, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So, please stop taking the shots.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607805259287756801


A. Alex Berenson
B. n=29


----------



## Muppet (Dec 28, 2022)

Philly news is now calling it a tripledemic because hospital ERs are super busy.

Um, it's because every entitled asshole that wants instant gratification treatment for their sniffles takes up beds while I'm told to put syncope and dehydration in triage.

Then, those assholes that are told to wait in triage for their sniffles are mad because wait times are 8 hours plus.

Tripledemic. What a way to scare the public. It's all fucking planned. What a joke.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 28, 2022)

policemedic said:


> A. Alex Berenson
> B. n=29



What's your problem? Doesn't align with your views?


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 28, 2022)

Muppet said:


> I took the first set of Phizer, knowing what I was "told/learned". When I learned more, I refused the third, same as my wife and others. It's a shame that many providers I know that have gotten number 5 now.
> 
> I'll pass.


I did the same thing, both because I thought it was worth taking the chance, and I didn't want to lose my job.

I got COVID anyway, and now we find out that the whole process was just another lie.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I did the same thing, both because I thought it was worth taking the chance, and I didn't want to lose my job.
> 
> I got COVID anyway, and now we find out that the whole process was just another lie.



Yep.


----------



## AWP (Dec 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I did the same thing, both because I thought it was worth taking the chance, and I didn't want to lose my job.
> 
> I got COVID anyway, and now we find out that the whole process was just another lie.



Yup. I did the "Pfizer Two-Step" for work. Would I change it now? Sure. Without the info we have today? I'd take the shot. "Good" info was scrubbed, withheld, and/ or mocked so I won't disparage anyone for taking "the jab" back then. Same for masks to be honest because those narratives and consequences go hand-in-hand. We simply didn't have enough information and the information presented was frankly garbage. It is what it is, but it didn't have to be this way.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Yup. I did the "Pfizer Two-Step" for work. Would I change it now? Sure. Without the info we have today? I'd take the shot. "Good" info was scrubbed, withheld, and/ or mocked so I won't disparage anyone for taking "the jab" back then. Same for masks to be honest because those narratives and consequences go hand-in-hand. We simply didn't have enough information and the information presented was frankly garbage. It is what it is, but it didn't have to be this way.


I wasn't mad about the COVID thing... at first.  Because at first it kind of made sense.  We knew it was an airborne disease.  We knew it could be fatal.  Masks seemed reasonable... until we learned that they were ineffective.  Lockdowns made sense, because "mass spreader events," and after all, they were only going to be for two weeks "to flatten the curve."  Same with social distancing, and the vaccine.  I mean, I was in the Army a long time and got vaxxed for all kinds of things.

...but then we learned that those things didn't work in the way we were told they did (the vaccine) or they didn't work at all, like the masks, and social distancing, and lockdowns.  AND THEN WE DIDN'T STOP DOING THOSE THINGS. <---that's the part I'm mad about.  That, and no one one being held accountable for it, and what we're learning about it from the Twitter Files expose'.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 28, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> I wasn't mad about the COVID thing... at first.  Because at first it kind of made sense.  We knew it was an airborne disease.  We knew it could be fatal.  Masks seemed reasonable... until we learned that they were ineffective.  Lockdowns made sense, because "mass spreader events," and after all, they were only going to be for two weeks "to flatten the curve."  Same with social distancing, and the vaccine.  I mean, I was in the Army a long time and got vaxxed for all kinds of things.
> 
> ...but then we learned that those things didn't work in the way we were told they did (the vaccine) or they didn't work at all, like the masks, and social distancing, and lockdowns.  AND THEN WE DIDN'T STOP DOING IT THOSE THINGS. <---that's the part I'm mad about.  That, and no one one being held accountable for it, and what we're learning about it from the Twitter Files expose'.



Not to mention the cunt ilks that continued to buy into it like sheep to the slaughter. This morning on way to work, stopped at WAWA, employee wearing 2 masks. Yep, fuckers still buying it. If, folks actually said, no, fuck you and fuck that to the government, it would have died off.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 28, 2022)

We are fast approaching the point where we are going to fall apart as a society.  Everything that used to hold us together is crumbling.  Even people who used to have a lot of faith and trust in the US government, or the US as a concept, are starting to waver.  Our institutions from top to bottom are under attack, and things like what we're finding out about COVID, and the Twitter Files (tip of the iceberg, by the way), combined with "defund the police" and both parties engaging in election denial, the US government is slowly becoming illegitimate in the eyes of its citizens.  I'm not talking about the Biden Administration or the Trump Administration or any one person or party.  I'm talking about the whole thing.

And I've served plenty of places over the years where national governments are weak and/or lack public legitimacy.  It doesn't go well.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 28, 2022)

AWP said:


> Yup. I did the "Pfizer Two-Step" for work. Would I change it now? Sure. Without the info we have today? I'd take the shot. "Good" info was scrubbed, withheld, and/ or mocked so I won't disparage anyone for taking "the jab" back then. Same for masks to be honest because those narratives and consequences go hand-in-hand. We simply didn't have enough information and the information presented was frankly garbage. It is what it is, but it didn't have to be this way.




I disagree with all of this.  We know how long it takes for drugs to actually get approved and then manufactured.  This went from initial trial to infecting the population inside six months.  Normal approval takes AT LEAST five years, often longer.  "Fast" is usually considered three years between first trial and approval.  We had no data on if it was efficacious or not...or rather we did, it went from 100% stops you from getting infected to stops transmission 100% to now it hopefully, and I mean hopefully makes your symptoms less bad. And the data we are seeing is that the mRNA shots specifically created super spreaders and have elevated the risk factor and rate of myocarditis.  

At least with the other drug studies there's a chance to get paid by participating.  Tens of Millions of Americans and hundreds of Millions of people were coerced at the threat of their livelihood to take the shot that at best does nothing and at worst is killing people. But hey, two weeks to flatten the curve.


----------



## Marauder06 (Dec 28, 2022)




----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 29, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> We are fast approaching the point where we are going to fall apart as a society.  Everything that used to hold us together is crumbling.  Even people who used to have a lot of faith and trust in the US government, or the US as a concept, are starting to waver.  Our institutions from top to bottom are under attack, and things like what we're finding out about COVID, and the Twitter Files (tip of the iceberg, by the way), combined with "defund the police" and both parties engaging in election denial, the US government is slowly becoming illegitimate in the eyes of its citizens.  I'm not talking about the Biden Administration or the Trump Administration or any one person or party.  I'm talking about the whole thing.
> 
> And I've served plenty of places over the years where national governments are weak and/or lack public legitimacy.  It doesn't go well.


On the bright side, we as a people are slowly figuring out who did what and why. Everything from the clot shot, cities being burned, election malfeasance, media psyops, etc, etc.

Names are being named and flows of money are being tracked to their sources. Things are gonna suck, but at least now the American people know who their enemy is. The enemy is no longer some shadowy figure, it's people. Flesh and blood people. Both at home and abroad.

The people who've lied to us, killed our fellow citizens, taken enemy money, courted sociopathic foreign bankers/mafiosos, and who've been systematically destroying our society, are all being named. The game is up for them.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 29, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> On the bright side, we as a people are slowly figuring out who did what and why. Everything from the clot shot, cities being burned, election malfeasance, media psyops, etc, etc.
> 
> Names are being named and flows of money are being tracked to their sources. Things are gonna suck, but at least now the American people know who their enemy is. The enemy is no longer some shadowy figure, it's people. Flesh and blood people. Both at home and abroad.
> 
> The people who've lied to us, killed our fellow citizens, taken enemy money, courted sociopathic foreign bankers/mafiosos, and who've been systematically destroying our society, are all being named. The game is up for them.



Nothing will happen though.


----------



## AWP (Dec 29, 2022)

R.Caerbannog said:


> On the bright side, we as a people are slowly figuring out who did what and why. Everything from the clot shot, cities being burned, election malfeasance, media psyops, etc, etc.
> 
> Names are being named and flows of money are being tracked to their sources. Things are gonna suck, but at least now the American people know who their enemy is. The enemy is no longer some shadowy figure, it's people. Flesh and blood people. Both at home and abroad.
> 
> The people who've lied to us, killed our fellow citizens, taken enemy money, courted sociopathic foreign bankers/mafiosos, and who've been systematically destroying our society, are all being named. The game is up for them.


LOL

The American people don’t care because if they did, they would have done something by now.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2022)

AWP said:


> LOL
> 
> The American people don’t care because if they did, they would have done something by now.


Yeah but…

Maybe more people care than we think, but we (the collective we) have our heads so buried in the sand that we believe everything the government and MSM tell us.  The bigger question is…why are the institutions that we are supposed to trust, so willing to blatantly lie to us?

That’s the shit that keeps me up at night.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 29, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Nothing will happen though.


I dunno. All I know is there is a current of discontentment and the people waking up are pissed. 



AWP said:


> LOL
> 
> The American people don’t care because if they did, they would have done something by now.


The American people mostly don't know, they're a slumbering giant waking from a terrible dream. Give it time and let more names and deeds drop.



Ooh-Rah said:


> Yeah but…
> 
> Maybe more people care than we think, but we (the collective we) have our heads so buried in the sand that we believe everything the government and MSM tell us.  The bigger question is…*why are the institutions* that we are supposed to trust, *so willing to blatantly lie to us*?
> 
> That’s the shit that keeps me up at night.


They're ideologically compromised. Y'all gave me alotta guff over Bezmenov, but that man was a prophet.


----------



## AWP (Dec 29, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Maybe more people care than we think,



No. A thousand times no. One word:

Afghanistan.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 29, 2022)

AWP said:


> Afghanistan


…sigh…


----------



## amlove21 (Jan 2, 2023)

View attachment trim.A89F6E1C-4950-4DB0-88C0-6321DC96F472.MOV


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jan 2, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 41296



This horrible and dark comedy was everything she said was either a lie before it left her face hole or was proven untrue months later and now today we know mRNA shots give you a higher rate of myocarditis than the vid itself...


----------



## amlove21 (Jan 2, 2023)

ThunderHorse said:


> This horrible and dark comedy was everything she said was either a lie before it left her face hole or was proven untrue months later and now today we know mRNA shots give you a higher rate of myocarditis than the vid itself...


Gaslighting was wayyyyy easier when we couldn't just pull video.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 3, 2023)

Muppet said:


> Either that, I'm thinking sudden cardiac arrest or something called, commotio cordis (sudden hit to chest) at a certain point of ECG that would result in arrest. R on T phenomenon its called.
> 
> We'll see.



At first blush I agree.  I have seen it maybe 3 times in 30 years, each time with a baseball to the chest.  It can't be torn aorta, for a whole bunch of reasons.



AWP said:


> Multiple sources are saying he had cardiac arrest.



Cardiac arrest is a catch-all term; what esteemed colleague @Muppet is talking about (commotio cordis) is a cause of cardiac arrest.

People yammering "it must be the covid vaccine!" and I want to punch them in the throat.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 3, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> People yammering "it must be the covid vaccine!" and I want to punch them in the throat.



We've (the public at large) done a 180 from every death being COVID to every death being the vax.

It's ridiculous.


----------



## RustyShackleford (Jan 3, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> People yammering "it must be the covid vaccine!" and I want to punch them in the throat.


Exactly. My oldest had open heart surgery last year after discovering she had an anomalous origin of the right coronary artery. We only found out because she had chest pain twice during cross country practice and got her checked out.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 3, 2023)

Canada's vaccine passport bullshit reaches new levels of corruption.  Thankfully the app is not in use, for now.

High level of redactions in ArriveCan invoices concern MPs on operations committee

Microsoft, not ThinkOn, received $1.2-million contract for work on ArriveCan app, border agency says

Don Martin: Blocked at the border no more: Good riddance to the ArriveCAN app


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 3, 2023)

RackMaster said:


> Canada's vaccine passport bullshit reaches new levels of corruption.  Thankfully the app is not in use, for now.
> 
> High level of redactions in ArriveCan invoices concern MPs on operations committee
> 
> ...


From the first article:



> the agency will not be revealing the identities of all the subcontractors involved in making the app. Among the other sections redacted in the documents are pay rates and the purposes of contracts.


 I think that's kind of the most important part. Kind of hard to find out cui bono when you can't follow the money.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 3, 2023)

Marauder06 said:


> From the first article:
> 
> 
> I think that's kind of the most important part. Kind of hard to find out cui bono when you can't follow the money.



Canada may not have the FOIA-type laws and open records laws we have.  I despise that line of thinking.  I'm like, "bitches, that's MY tax money you are using...."


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 3, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> Canada may not have the FOIA-type laws and open records laws we have.  I despise that line of thinking.  I'm like, "bitches, that's MY tax money you are using...."



There's all sorts of fuckery going on.  I've lost track of the number of major scandals with this government and the morons will still vote for the assholes.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 3, 2023)

RackMaster said:


> There's all sorts of fuckery going on.  I've lost track of the number of major scandals with this government and the morons will still vote for the assholes.



Wait a minute, I thought you weren't American?  I am confused.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 3, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> Canada may not have the FOIA-type laws and open records laws we have.  I despise that line of thinking.  I'm like, "bitches, that's MY tax money you are using...."


It appears to me that the request came from Canada's equivalent of Congress.  I'd lose my f'ing mind if I were an elected official charged by my constituents to be concerned about such matters, and some appointed clown obstructed like this.  I would find a way to make things very uncomfortable for them and their agency.


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderHorse said:


> This horrible and dark comedy was everything she said was either a lie before it left her face hole or was proven untrue months later and now today we know mRNA shots give you a higher rate of myocarditis than the vid itself...



Myocarditis is not a lie. Coming from someone who got a booster, I will not have any more COVID shots. 

The tingly feeling in my chest the next day after the booster was enough to make me tap...


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 3, 2023)

Marauder06 said:


> It appears to me that the request came from Canada's equivalent of Congress.  I'd lose my f'ing mind if I were an elected official charged by my constituents to be concerned about such matters, and some appointed clown obstructed like this.  I would find a way to make things very uncomfortable for them and their agency.



This is showing the level of corruption and political bias at senior bureaucratic levels, in all government.  The Canuckistani Swamp.


----------



## GOTWA (Jan 3, 2023)

BlackSmokeRisinG said:


> Myocarditis is not a lie. Coming from someone who got a booster, I will not have any more COVID shots.
> 
> 
> 
> The tingly feeling in my chest the next day after the booster was enough to make me tap...


So I'm kind of a rare case here. I got the first shot Jan 17th 2021 and my second shot mid August 2021. I had the second shot chills for a couple hours, but sweat it off. The next day we had a BN fun day which rightfully started with a monster. I had to tap out of volleyball because I thought my heart was going to explode. I was legit fucked up.


----------



## RackMaster (Jan 4, 2023)

This isn't a shocker to most of us. Myocarditis highest in young men, post vaccination.


----------



## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2023)

On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.


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## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2023)

For the love of Pete.  This is what I am dealing with:



I also said that I would consider that he went into cardiac arrest as a result of Professor Plum in the library with a candlestick.  That didn't go over too well.  People thought I was mocking them.


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## DA SWO (Jan 4, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.


Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 4, 2023)

DA SWO said:


> Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.



Why?


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## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2023)

DA SWO said:


> Asking if the vax contributed is a valid question.



The challenge is, the causal effect: he was struck in the chest, he went down.  The articles I read about athletes dropping on the field as it relates to the vax suggest in the midst of play they grab their chest, have concomitant respiratory issues, then collapse.  

Is asking about vax valid?  Sure.  But given how he went down also low probability.


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## amlove21 (Jan 4, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> Why?


So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?" 

Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss. 

Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right. 

Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's _no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second. _ 

Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" _We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact. _

If we want to discuss all possibilities, cool, let's discuss them all. 

If you want to follow a distuubing hashtag on IG or Twitter, check out #DiedSuddenly. Fom Dr. Simone Gold- _"From 2021 to present, 1101 athletes died from cardiac arrest. Over the prior 38 years (1966-2004), 1101 athletes under the age of 35 died due to various heart conditions. The same number of athletes died in the last two years as compared to the prior 38."_

Yes, I am aware that there are numerous "fact checks" on statistics like these, so for the sake of discussion, I will cut the number in half (the 2021-present number)- which is ridiculous, given the fact that we have watched professional soccer players, marathon runners, and healthy young 16 year old hockey players die of strokes and heart attacks all with one notable similarity. News producer, 37, dies suddenly. 18 year old, previously healthy, dies suddenly. It's quite literally all over the news and easy to find and correlate. 

That's still more deaths in healthy athletes in 1.2 years than in the last 20 years- wonder what that number looks like in regular American population with co-morbidities?

Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against it's outocme. 

As I said- I hope that young man survives. No matter what happened, it's tragic and he's 24- and by all attempts, a good human.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 4, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> Science and intellectual discussion is ruling in and ruling out likely causes when appropriate facts are considered. Science is *not* immediately discounting what could be a very valid hypothesis because you don't feel like dealing with it or you're biased against its outcome.


Yep.  See also "Wuhan virus lab origin," "COVID vaccine efficacy," and "Hunter Biden laptop is real," among many other things.


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## Devildoc (Jan 4, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"
> 
> Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.
> 
> ...



As always, unemotional and eloquent.

Here is my argument for CC opposed to cardiomyopathy/MI/PE or vax-related event (which, according to the media, result in cardiomyopathy/MY/PE related arrests).  If you look at the data/media on players who have collapsed on the field, most of them (because I have not read anything that suggests anything about all of them) have a pre-collapse cluster of symptoms: clutching their chest, chest pain, respiratory distress, occurring irrespective of what they were doing: they were fine, had symptoms, collapsed.  What I don't know:  were any successfully resuscitated?  What was the presenting dysrhythmia?  

In this case, he appeared to be fine, he was hit, he got up, he collapsed.  He was in VF.  Everything is classical CC.  It did not appear that his route to event followed any of the other athletes who collapsed on the field.

Now, the vaccine.  Could the vaccine have created an undiagnosed/underlying condition which made him more susceptible to CC?  I don't know that, either.  Maybe.  Could he have had an non-vax-related underlying condition that made him more susceptible to CC?  Maybe.

I don't think it wise to discount any theory; however, we (you, me, all med pro's) work a list of differential diagnoses and rank/triage likeliest culprits.  This is what lead me down the DD/triage list to why I think CC is the most likely (until/unless proven otherwise) primary diagnosis.

Anyhoo, my two drachmas (drachmae?).


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## TLDR20 (Jan 4, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"
> 
> Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.
> 
> ...



We don’t even know if he was vaccinated. It is an absurd position to take to say it was or was not related. Or even speculate on the matter. 

It is like at the beginning of the pandemic when people were in car accidents and were reported supposedly as Covid deaths. 

I personally like to use my eyes. He was hit in the chest and collapsed soon thereafter. The most common cause is “a”. I don’t go looking for “z” because that is fucking stupid. “a” is bad enough. This is a tragic occurrence but happens often enough that there is a name for it, and it has happened long enough for us to know it is a risk from sports.


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## amlove21 (Jan 4, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> We don’t even know if he was vaccinated. It is an absurd position to take to say it was or was not related. Or even speculate on the matter.
> 
> It is like at the beginning of the pandemic when people were in car accidents and were reported supposedly as Covid deaths.
> 
> I personally like to use my eyes. He was hit in the chest and collapsed soon thereafter. The most common cause is “a”. I don’t go looking for “z” because that is fucking stupid. “a” is bad enough. This is a tragic occurrence but happens often enough that there is a name for it, and it has happened long enough for us to know it is a risk from sports.


The NFL is 95% vaccinated; 94% of Pitt was vaccinated when Hamlin played there. It's pretty reasonable to assume he had at least one vaccination. Since ~1101  athletes that received the vaccination have died in the last 2  years, it's not "fucking stupid" to consider it. At this point, it's no more absurd than watching a pretty innocuous collision of a player that is a _professional at taking extreme collisions_ suffer from a condition that almost always happens to baseball players- because of the lack of shoulder pads in baseball.

Additionally, age group for CC is 4-18, has much more to do with projectile size and impact directly over the heart, and force. R over T phenomenon is wildly uncommon- there has been exactly 1 death in the NFL that can even be roughly attributed to CC. 

So, for the 10th time- it's why I would have preferred to wait on this one. But since we have decided we don't wanna wait before calling things "fucking stupid" and this and that, here we are. And nothing in your comment actually disputes what point I was making; it amplifies it. Occam's razor is a useful tool; completely discounting something this early in the process _you can't even yourserlf verify _isn't useful.

You're freely making a judgement about causation that you _feel _is likely without all the facts. Or, more accurately, you're eliminating possibilities with the same (or near) statistical value cause you think it's stupid. All I am saying is, "If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander", and if we are gonna talk about an absolutely statistically unlikely condition (commotio cordis that's lethal) vs something that may have a 1 in 800 chance of adverse reactions to include sudden death (the shot)- which one is more likely, again?



Devildoc said:


> As always, unemotional and eloquent.
> 
> Now, the vaccine.  Could the vaccine have created an undiagnosed/underlying condition which made him more susceptible to CC?  I don't know that, either.  Maybe.  Could he have had an non-vax-related underlying condition that made him more susceptible to CC?  Maybe.
> 
> ...


Agree with most (definitely not the part about me being eloquent or unemotional).

What about a different possibility- that a new, novel treatment was introduced into a population without any human studies to support it's use? Furthermore, what if that substance, combined with catecholamines- exacerbated previously unforseen damage to the heart and caused sudden, asymptomatic heart attacks, even in young healthy males? Dr. Perter McCullough definitely thinks so. Citing a previous hypothesis about people dying in their sleep and why (in vaccinated individuals)-

_"He (Dr. McCullough),  added that the reason people die seemingly inexplicably in their sleep is sometimes because of a surge in catecholamines during the end of the sleep cycle. These hormones are released during sleep, just before waking, as a signal to the body and the brain that it is time to get up. They can increase heart rate, blood pressure and breathing rate. ‘If a young person’s heart has been damaged, by an infection, vaccination or for any other reason, the surge of catecholamines can be lethal. This is the reason that people seem to die in their sleep. They’re really dying just before dawn,’ he explained. He also noted that the sudden and unexpected deaths in young people are most likely from undiagnosed or asymptomatic vaccine-induced myocarditis. ‘*We have now learned that roughly half or more of cases [of myocarditis] are initially asymptomatic. That means the young people don’t know they have myocarditis*,’ McCullough pointed out. ‘So, a scar is being formed in the heart, but they have never been told not to exert themselves and many are involved in athletics and all different types of activities.'”_

I don't know if it's _probable _that this is an explanation- but I think, knowing what we know right this second, it may be _possible. _


----------



## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jan 4, 2023)

policemedic said:


> I trip over doctors at work. Invariably someone thinks they can help in an emergency and gets in the way.  They are usually doctors of paleobotany or xenolinguistics or some such….



Xenolinguistics is a very underappreciated field. 



Devildoc said:


> On another forum I am starting to catch some flack from the "it must be the vaccine" folks because I said that "it must have been aliens," and that they have to prove me wrong.



The day this happened I was just hearing about the multiple athlete deaths all over the place and it soon entered my mind. However, CC is part of every year's sports paperwork for my kids. We have a "Lindsay's Law" form to fill out.

Also. Never discount the aliens... 



amlove21 said:


> ...Is it 100% too early to say what this was? Absolutely, in all regards. It's just as equally silly to say "we know" it was commotio cordis as it is to say it was a heretofore undetected congenital cardiac myopathy, right? Right.
> 
> Is it wrong to immediately pop off with, "IT WAS THE FAUCI OUCHIE!" while some dude is fighting for his life (thereby politicizing this event in a really, really cynical way)? Yeah, I think that's in really poor taste, but it's _no more likely or unlikely with what we know right this second. _
> 
> Completely eliminating the vaccine as some sort of possibility when we've seen professional athletes and otherwise healthy young males dying (and presenting cardiomyopathies that just idiopathetically appeared out of nowhere) at a historic clip since 2021 is just as politically motivated and irresponsible. Didn't we have a talk in this thread about the numerous studies about post-vaccine cardiomyopathy? Aren't we past the, "It's a conspiracy theory to even say that" and on to, "Ok, maybe that's possible?" _We have several people here on the board that have reported vaccine injury and this anecdotal and empiracal evidence is in line with the studies that are emerging now as the test subjects, the population, are starting to present. We didn't have the cohort of information becasue the studies weren't done and this is a fact..._



Other than the . thread, why I like this site so much. 


Marauder06 said:


> Yep.  See also "Wuhan virus lab origin," "COVID vaccine efficacy," and "Hunter Biden laptop is real," among many other things.



From my new Twitter!! :_ 
"What is so special about this laptop that has been handled by 5 billion people. How about the classified docs Trump stole and destroyed. That’s way more important than Hunters penis." _

A random take on H. Biden's laptop that may or may not exist.


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## R.Caerbannog (Jan 4, 2023)




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## Polar Bear (Jan 4, 2023)

Blood clot, clot caused by COVID shot


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 5, 2023)

Not surprised. Parents want their kids in school. And public schools tend to be governed by crazy libs. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610984515517693953


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## Devildoc (Jan 5, 2023)

People here still losing their shit over testing positive to COVID despite minimal symptoms.

Pop quiz, hotshot: what's the difference between a cold and COVID?  A test.  Stop testing.  Just.  Stop.


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## RackMaster (Jan 5, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> People here still losing their shit over testing positive to COVID despite minimal symptoms.
> 
> Pop quiz, hotshot: what's the difference between a cold and COVID?  A test.  Stop testing.  Just.  Stop.



Gotta keep the testing industry alive.


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## JedisonsDad (Jan 5, 2023)

RackMaster said:


> Gotta keep the testing industry alive.


In regards to USAF flyers, we need to test so we know if we can go to the doctor or not.

If we are negative, go to the doc and get meds.

If we are positive, stay home and hide that you’re sick, otherwise we get pulled off flight status for about 6 weeks while they do assorted x-rays and other tests.

At least that’s how it was not too long ago.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 5, 2023)

Devildoc said:


> So, do I mock or attack someone who wants to present alternate theories or disgnoses?  No.  Will I call someone obtuse and ignorant who presents an unlikely one at the cost of ignoring the probable ones?  Sure.  *I would do the same for someone whose car ran out of gas, but insists on changing the battery*.


Not even close to the same thing.  The science of car mechanics is very well-established comparative to what we know about the COVID vaccine.  And just because you're out of gas doesn't mean there might also be a problem with your battery.

I don't know what caused this young man's issues and I'm not claiming it's vaccine-related.  As I initially said, my first thought was substance.  PEDs, illegal drugs, I don't know.  Could be hereditary.  Could be a super-"stinger" like the one I posted.  But at this point everything should be on the table.


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

Over a quarter of Americans say they know someone they think died from COVID vaccine, poll

Weird.


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## DA SWO (Jan 5, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> Why?


Science is about asking questions.
Testing on this was rushed (thanks DJT), and we don't know how effective it really is, we don't know long term effects or how it affects the body.
How many safe drugs/vaccines have been pulled years later because additional research showed an adverse impact on the body?


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

DA SWO said:


> Science is about asking questions.
> Testing on this was rushed (thanks DJT), and we don't know how effective it really is, we don't know long term effects or how it affects the body.
> *How many safe drugs/vaccines have been pulled years later because additional research showed an adverse impact on the body?*


More than one, which is all you need for doubt.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 5, 2023)




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## Devildoc (Jan 5, 2023)

Coworker:  "Oh my God, can you teach my class for me?  I tested positive for COVID!"

Me: "Yeah, sure.  How are you feeling?"

Coworker:  "I feel fine, my kid has it and I was exposed."

Me:  "So...you are asymptomatic?  You're not sick?"

Coworker:  "No, but it's COVID!"

Me:  Banging my head against the wall.....


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## AWP (Jan 5, 2023)

At this point I refuse to believe in UFOs. There's no way an intelligent life form watches the COVID vs. vaccine death debate and stops here to conduct anal probes or whatever.


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## GOTWA (Jan 5, 2023)

AWP said:


> At this point I refuse to believe in UFOs. There's no way an intelligent life form watches the COVID vs. vaccine death debate and stops here to conduct anal probes or whatever.


Wouldn't it be funny if the aliens were like..."Thank the creator, we're not the only retards in the galaxy...."


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## TLDR20 (Jan 5, 2023)

DA SWO said:


> Science is about asking questions.
> Testing on this was rushed (thanks DJT), and we don't know how effective it really is, we don't know long term effects or how it affects the body.
> How many safe drugs/vaccines have been pulled years later because additional research showed an adverse impact on the body?



I understand in a vacuum. This incident didn’t occur in a vacuum. It is fine to “question everything” if when you ask the question you are willing and able to accept answers.

If I see a player get hit in the chest and then pass out and I hear they were in Vfib, which necessitated defibrillation, I’m going to assume it was CC.  There is no reason to look for a zebra in a field that is full of horses.

As to some other things that were mentioned that must be brought up.

Why is the most common age for CC 14-18? Anyone want to hazard a guess? Because millions of kids play organized sports during that age range. That drops significantly at age 18, and even more so at age 22. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, it means the sample size drops.




amlove21 said:


> So I would counter with, "Why isn't it?"
> 
> Again, I would really like to wait and see what happens with the young man; but for a couple different reasons, I feel like this issue is a really good example of how COVID broke a couple ways we think and discuss.
> 
> ...





Notice how that person quantified "athletes" and "athletes under 35". Subtle way to be confusing, but keep reading, I will explain.

Have you actually looked at the data that the good Dr. McCullough pulled from? It is hard to find, you have to go to his paper here: https://focusfm.gr/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Scand-J-Immunol-2022-Polykretis-Rational-harm‐benefit-assessments-by-age-group-are-required-for-continued-COVID‐191.pdf then to his references number 8 specifically, where you are then taken to this blog: 1616 Athlete Cardiac Arrests, Serious Issues, 1114 of Them Dead, Since COVID Injection - Real Science
Then if you read the causes of death, for all these top tier athletes, you see that many of them died of things like stomach cancer, or had good old fashioned heart attacks when they were in their 70's. The thing is anyone who was ever an "athlete" is listed as dying is included. Those 1101 athletes did not all die of myocarditis, nor even heart attacks. One surfer drowned, and the cause of death was Cardiopulmonary collapse secondary to drowning.  I don't have time to actually do it, but it looks like the mean age is in the 50's. The thing is people eat this shit up. It sells because unless you actually read the reference, it seems pretty legit, a doctor posted it. Then another doctor retweeted it.

The reason the doctor above stated "athletes under 35" in the last 30 years, is because that was actually good science, Bille K, Figueiras D, Schamasch P, et al. Sudden cardiac death in athletes: the Lausanne recommendations. Eur J Cardiovasc Prev Rehabil. 2006;13:859-875.

These things are debunked because they are bullshit.

This is actually listed as one of the COVID related collapses that this doctor references:
Donald Parham (24) Los Angeles Chargers (NFL) tight end player collapsed in mid-air while taking a flying touchdown catch. He had received two Covid-19 vaccines and a booster. His arms were shaking as he was wheeled off. It appears clear that his left arm locked up before his helmet hit the ground – that seems to be why he didn’t handle the recovery well. The Chargers report he suffered a concussion, but the video tells a different story, a fraction of a second before his helmet touched down and his head suddenly threw back. 

here is video of the injury: 




That is what we call a concussion.


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> I understand in a vacuum. This incident didn’t occur in a vacuum. It is fine to “question everything” if when you ask the question you are willing and able to accept answers.
> 
> If I see a player get hit in the chest and then pass out and I hear they were in Vfib, which necessitated defibrillation, I’m going to assume it was CC.  There is no reason to look for a zebra in a field that is full of horses.
> 
> ...


Would you agree that you have your own biases? And that your're not a cardiologist?


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

All this talk has reminded me of growing up. 

Every couple of weeks, my paramedic father would come home and sit down, stone-faced at the table. 

"It happened again, guys. We got another call for a 14 year old, who went unresponsive due to a heart attack. A month ago was the 27 year old with the stroke. It was tragic- his completely healthy father died of SADS, which has been really prevalent lately. Bein a paramedic is really tough; it seems like every single week, we lose more and more young people, and I don't know if I can take it. I mean, a 17 year old girl in her sleep... well, that's just the way of the world."

Every season, in all sports, you'd see reports of another high-level athlete dying, watch a player die on live MNF- and we all knew it was just part of the human condition. The government said it was climate change, but we felt like that was silly. Sometimes, _seemingly for no reason at all_, thousands of people a year would die without warning. Thank goodness the healthcare community was there to help us through these hard times by explaining exactly what happened, each step of the way.

And that brings us to now. A lifetime of watching young healthy people die, and now a group of fringe conspiracy theorists who act like this hasn't been going on forever seem to focus on a specific time period as if it just began. No, for all of our adult lives- decades!- healthy athletic young men have been dying from idiopathic cardiomyopathies, and the healthcare community has always been at the forefront of predicting and explaining these deaths. 

It's just so maddening that people think it started in 2021, for absolutely no reason. 

(This fictional story is completely full of facts and I hope this story illustrates just how mad all of this makes me- you've reduced me to allegories to help mock this narrative.)


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## JedisonsDad (Jan 5, 2023)

AWP said:


> At this point I refuse to believe in UFOs. There's no way an intelligent life form watches the COVID vs. vaccine death debate and stops here to conduct anal probes or whatever.


At this point, extraterrestrial buggery is probably just as believable as some claims made by both sides in regards to COVID.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 5, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> Would you agree that you have your own biases? And that your're not a cardiologist?



Certainly. I am biased, for sure. But I cannot read a list like that and take away that all those people were victims of Covid vaccine injury… there isn’t evidence that any of them were. There literally is no evidence in that paper at all, other than that most of them played sports at some point.

Are you too biased to be capable of admitting that this particular list is garbage? When you can easily go through and find a hundred examples of people who died of cancer, or of people who hit their head, or fell off a roof, or committed suicide? It takes 5 mins to read through that list and you can methodically cross people off.

In the first 20 listed there are 3 cancers, and two clotting disorders related to factor v Leiden, and Mike leach who had a heart attack. 1/4 of them are easily explainable. Just by browsing for a minute.


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> Certainly. I am biased, for sure. But I cannot read a list like that and take away that all those people were victims of Covid vaccine injury… there isn’t evidence that any of them were. There literally is no evidence in that paper at all, other than that most of them played sports at some point.
> 
> Are you too biased to be capable of admitting that this particular list is garbage? When you can easily go through and find a hundred examples of people who died of cancer, or of people who hit their head, or fell off a roof, or committed suicide? It takes 5 mins to read through that list and you can methodically cross people off.
> 
> In the first 20 listed there are 3 cancers, and two clotting disorders related to factor v Leiden, and Mike leach who had a heart attack.


So, you're not an expert, and you're biased. I'll agree that I am also biased (for funsies) and not an expert. 

You can stop pretending to be, your opinion on this matter is exactly equal to mine- but it's not equal to the opinion of Dr. McCullough, who is an expert, and his conclusions on the issue are more relevant than yours. 

That's how we play "scramble to the high ground of appeal to authority". And that was my original point about how COVID broke our communication, especially on this issue.


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## Muppet (Jan 5, 2023)

This is why aliens probe our asses...


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## TLDR20 (Jan 5, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> So, you're not an expert, and you're biased. I'll agree that I am also biased (for funsies) and not an expert.
> 
> You can stop pretending to be, your opinion on this matter is exactly equal to mine- but it's not equal to the opinion of Dr. McCullough, who is an expert, and his conclusions on the issue are more relevant than yours.
> 
> That's how we play "scramble to the high ground of appeal to authority". And that was my original point about how COVID broke our communication, especially on this issue.



Cool. 

Well for anyone else. Read the list. Read why many of those people actually died.


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

TLDR20 said:


> Cool.
> 
> Well for anyone else. Read the list. Read why many of those people actually died.


No one else is listening, bud. They're busy watching what's actually happening, not sticking their head in the sand.


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## Stretcher Jockey (Jan 5, 2023)

amlove21 said:


> No one else is listening, bud. They're busy watching what's actually happening, not sticking their head in the sand.


I’m listening to both sides here. Keeping vaccine related injury in the differential diagnosis is fine. But it is statistically more probable that this was a commotio cordis event versus an idiopathic response. I don’t know what your history with each other is, but this site has done well because we keep personal digs out of the conversations. You’re better than responses like this.


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## amlove21 (Jan 5, 2023)

Stretcher Jockey said:


> I’m listening to both sides here. Keeping vaccine related injury in the differential diagnosis is fine. But it is statistically more probable that this was a commotio cordis event versus an idiopathic response. I don’t know what your history with each other is, but this site has done well because we keep personal digs out of the conversations. You’re better than responses like this.


We actually have a good personal history, considering all things. I have had drinks with @TLDR20 and I’ll be the first person there if he needs help. 

I appreciate what you’re saying, but I’ve withstood 2 years of mocking, dismissal, accusations and the like. 

“Masks save lives.” 
“The vaccines stop transmission.”
“Vaccines are safe and effective.”

No more. If you’re saying these things- you deserve personal respect, but not public allowance of nonsense. What you say in a public forum has consequence. 

I stand by what I said, and I think you’re mistaking “Aggressively defending a position” and “Making a personal attack.”


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 5, 2023)

Stretcher Jockey said:


> I’m listening to both sides here. Keeping vaccine related injury in the differential diagnosis is fine. But it is statistically more probable that this was a commotio cordis event versus an idiopathic response. I don’t know what your history with each other is, but this site has done well because we keep personal digs out of the conversations. You’re better than responses like this.


Appreciate the concern but please utilize “report a post” function or take it to PM.  Chiming in publicly only exasperates a potentially volatile situation…as the only active staff member, less in-your-face moderation and more ‘behind the scenes’ is the strategy this lone mod has been practicing.


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## Stretcher Jockey (Friday at 12:39 AM)

Roger that @Ooh-Rah.


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## Marauder06 (Friday at 10:39 AM)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Appreciate the concern but please utilize “report a post” function or take it to PM.  Chiming in publicly only exasperates a potentially volatile situation…as the only active staff member, less in-your-face moderation and more ‘behind the scenes’ is the strategy this lone mod has been practicing.


You're doing a great job, but you don't need to be the lone mod.  Plenty of other folks willing to pitch in.


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## amlove21 (Friday at 2:48 PM)

Probably commotio cor… oh wait. Flag football. For girls.

16-year-old student at Las Vegas school dies after ‘medical emergency’ during sports event


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## Marauder06 (Friday at 3:18 PM)

I wonder if there are more medical incidents involving young athletes now, or if we're more attuned to them over COVID.


----------



## Devildoc (Friday at 3:32 PM)

amlove21 said:


> Probably commotio cor… oh wait. Flag football. For girls.
> 
> 16-year-old student at Las Vegas school dies after ‘medical emergency’ during sports event



But there is this: "A family member told FOX5 that Hughes was was playing flag football and was having chest problems. The girl went to the sidelines to take a break when she collapsed."

No cause-effect.  This is representative of how the other athletes have died.


----------



## amlove21 (Friday at 5:24 PM)

Devildoc said:


> But there is this: "A family member told FOX5 that Hughes was was playing flag football and was having chest problems. The girl went to the sidelines to take a break when she collapsed."
> 
> No cause-effect.  This is representative of how the other athletes have died.


I'm not making a case for cause-effect. I am highlighting the uptick in healthy, young adults having heart attacks. It's my hope that we can highlight enough of these stories so that maybe we can get enough people that actually care about the issue to look at it and get to causation. Seems to be plenty of correlation. I'd wager there is gonna be more. 


I can tell you (with pretty good reliability, as this was a 1-degreee separation from some of my friends in Vegas) that this young lady was an active, athletic person without significant Med history to indicate any reason why she'd code playing sports.



Marauder06 said:


> I wonder if there are more medical incidents involving young athletes now, or if we're more attuned to them over COVID.


This has been an overall interesting thing to explore for all things (not just COVID) in the world we live in- "are all these things happening more, or are we just made more aware of them because of our globally connected access to information."

I don't know what that answer is, so I think you have to compile a lot of personal experience and anecdotal information. This is gonna make the "WhErE iS tHe StUdY I ApPrOvE oF"  crowd upset, but considering big tech is censoring the information anyway, it's what we have. 

I have been a paramedic for 20+ years, and a basic before that. I have had friends in the medical community (civilian side specifically) for that long, and have a pretty good reach. "Kid stories", or stories that are super distinct get passed around pretty well- and in 2 decades, I can count on 1 hand the number of times a kid/teenager died from a heart attack or "natural causes". 17 year olds don't die in their sleep; healthy 27 year old special operators don't have strokes. I can't think of a time adults died of "natural causes" at 37, either.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Friday at 6:26 PM)

amlove21 said:


> We actually have a good personal history, considering all things. I have had drinks with @TLDR20 and I’ll be the first person there if he needs help.



Honest question...who has better hair....?


----------



## TLDR20 (Friday at 6:34 PM)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> Honest question...who has better hair....?



I’m more of a hard part and low fade guy myself. I stay away from quaffing or anything too effete.


----------



## TLDR20 (Friday at 6:40 PM)

amlove21 said:


> We actually have a good personal history, considering all things. I have had drinks with @TLDR20 and I’ll be the first person there if he needs help.



Yeah we are good. I have thick enough skin to not be too offended by anything anyone says on the inter webs


----------



## Devildoc (Friday at 7:46 PM)

amlove21 said:


> I'm not making a case for cause-effect. I am highlighting the uptick in healthy, young adults having heart attacks. It's my hope that we can highlight enough of these stories so that maybe we can get enough people that actually care about the issue to look at it and get to causation. Seems to be plenty of correlation. I'd wager there is gonna be more.
> 
> 
> I can tell you (with pretty good reliability, as this was a 1-degreee separation from some of my friends in Vegas) that this young lady was an active, athletic person without significant Med history to indicate any reason why she'd code playing sports.



The only reason I brought it up as I did was in context to how you starting the post remarking on CC, that's all.  Merely pointing out the difference between Hamlin and how he went down, and this young lady. 

I agree with your (and others) gestalt about the link between the vaccine and early death specific to athletes.  In that respect there is no argument, and I agree.  It appears how she 'went down' is similar to many other athletes.

Edited to add, I apologize if I am not as articulate as I could be; I am a couple bourbons in.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 1:53 PM)

Devildoc said:


> The only reason I brought it up as I did was in context to how you starting the post remarking on CC, that's all.  Merely pointing out the difference between Hamlin and how he went down, and this young lady.
> 
> I agree with your (and others) gestalt about the link between the vaccine and early death specific to athletes.  In that respect there is no argument, and I agree.  It appears how she 'went down' is similar to many other athletes.
> 
> Edited to add, I apologize if I am not as articulate as I could be; I am a couple bourbons in.


Bro no drama here. Again, I really think a lot of this stuff (covid, social media, whatever) broke how we communicate on stuff. 

No one is mad at anyone here. People have contentious conversations. You can be mad and call each other a dick here and there (remember when sometimes you just had to punch your friend in the mouth and then you walked home together and nothing was wrong?). 

Something happened where 1- people get offended on behalf of other people (who aren’t actually mad about the issue) and 2- we can’t just be ok with disagreement unless we make it into some earth shattering assault on our very ego and ID. It’s weird. 

Anyway, rant over.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Saturday at 2:07 PM)

So this gets interesting:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611457048549679105
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/weekly-covid-overview-20221231.pdf



> Future changes-
> 
> The following changes will be implemented for the weekly report in 2023:
> 
> ...



So, the data shows that if you're fully boosted you go to the ICU more often...but for 2023 the government of NSW just isn't going to care so we won't really be able to plot this shit back at all.


----------



## Stretcher Jockey (Saturday at 3:19 PM)

amlove21 said:


> Something happened where 1- people get offended on behalf of other people (who aren’t actually mad about the issue)


Only responding to this because it’s obvious I was the issue here: wasn’t my place to make a correction on the forum, and lesson learned from that. Want to emphasize that Amlove and I talked on the side and squashed any minor disagreement we had. These are just internet points, they don’t count for anything in real life anyways. 

Back to the regularly scheduled show, sorry for the derailment.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 4:04 PM)

Stretcher Jockey said:


> Only responding to this because it’s obvious I was the issue here: wasn’t my place to make a correction on the forum, and lesson learned from that. Want to emphasize that Amlove and I talked on the side and squashed any minor disagreement we had. These are just internet points, they don’t count for anything in real life anyways.
> 
> Back to the regularly scheduled show, sorry for the derailment.


Hey man that wasn’t a shot at you. It was an overhead observation, that’s all. It’s just a weird thing that’s happening in all society (see: the Rise of Karen).


----------



## Gunz (Saturday at 4:23 PM)

amlove21 said:


> No one is mad at anyone here.



I hate all of humanity.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 4:58 PM)

Gunz said:


> I hate all of humanity.


Lol ok, well that’s why we all like you so you get a pass.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 5:03 PM)

That is quite a lot of cardiac events right? The aortic dissection is obviously not included in my point that there are more people on this short list we saw in entire YEARS before 2020/2021.


----------



## Devildoc (Saturday at 5:09 PM)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 41328
> 
> That is quite a lot of cardiac events right? The aortic dissection is obviously not included in my point that there are more people on this short list we saw in entire YEARS before 2020/2021.



And Hamlin is an outlier as well.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Saturday at 5:23 PM)

Devildoc said:


> And Hamlin is an outlier as well.


Hey now, Fauci said one COVID death was too many. Well, would say one vaccine death is too many and they seem to be mounting.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 5:45 PM)

ThunderHorse said:


> Hey now, Fauci said one COVID death was too many. Well, would say one vaccine death is too many and they seem to be mounting.


This line of reasoning has been a tough but to crack. Quite literally throwing the baby out with the bath water.

“Well these two probably aren’t related.”

Uh- ok? How about the other 5 they might be? What if half of those get 100% proven to be vaccine related?? Ok Mike Leach was old- but that leaves 4 cardiac affect/sudden deaths of world class athletes and cardiac issues. When in history has that ever happened? Ever?


----------



## digrar (Saturday at 6:00 PM)

ThunderHorse said:


> So this gets interesting:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611457048549679105
> ...



I'm not sure it's that interesting, only about 20% of the population have had their 4th dose, and they are mostly in the 70+ age bracket. The demographic most likely to need an ICU visit regardless of vaccination status.


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 6:21 PM)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 41328
> 
> That is quite a lot of cardiac events right? The aortic dissection is obviously not included in my point that there are more people on this short list we saw in entire YEARS before 2020/2021.





2/6 of those are suspicious. For sure. 3 were old and obese, and one had a trauma.

Has anyone considered if maybe, people who’ve had Covid are also at long term risk of developing severe sequelae, or are we just focused on the vaccine right now?

Covid causes severe vascular problems. How many of these deaths had  had Covid? Anyone want to guess?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Saturday at 6:58 PM)

TLDR20 said:


> 2/6 of those are suspicious. For sure. 3 were old and obese, and one had a trauma.
> 
> Has anyone considered if maybe, people who’ve had Covid are also at long term risk of developing severe sequelae, or are we just focused on the vaccine right now?
> 
> Covid causes severe vascular problems. How many of these deaths had Covid? Anyone want to guess?



Extremely and utterly emphatically no. This is the most healthy population and contains genetic outliers as it relates to the level of athletic talent to ever be birthed. But hey don't trust my word for it.

Long term effects of COVID on players in the big 5+WNBA sports leagues is at a crazy small rate. Joint Statement on behalf of MLB, MLS, NBA, NHL, NFL and WNBA

Of the 786 cases 4.716 (so 5) athletes had evidence of inflammatory heart disease.  And of those 5, their recovery continued the further they got away from original infection. (Some doctors in the SportsMed space are nuts and complete covidiots) Most rational folks in the industry look at what the Big 6 did when it came to contact tracing bracelets and isolation of unvaccinated players from meetings as extremely unnecessary especially as the infection rates of those vaccinated continued to climb. Leading the NFLPA and NFL to just say fuck it.  But the CDC said fuck it like six months ago to, your vaccination status is no longer considered a control status. 

But hey I just was the testing coordinator for a small sports league with over 600 athletes and I saw what the effects of our policy was.

ETA:
Just like when @amlove21 and I said vaccinating Soldiers/Airmen/Marines/Sailors/Puddle Pirates/Star Trekkians was not only immoral but the wrong thing to do based on the science we had at the time "hey if you're really healthy, this will be the sniffles at worst".  So the science may be still be out, but my huevos were telling me something in April 2020 that seems to be aligned with the science that has been coming out since last Summer.


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 7:14 PM)

ThunderHorse said:


> Extremely and utterly emphatically no. This is the most healthy population and contains genetic outliers as it relates to the level of athletic talent to ever be birthed. But hey don't trust my word for it.
> 
> Long term effects of COVID on players in the big 5+WNBA sports leagues is at a crazy small rate. Joint Statement on behalf of MLB, MLS, NBA, NHL, NFL and WNBA
> 
> ...



The list that Amlove posted is filled with people in their 60’s. The most recent 6 he posted 3/6 were over 60 and one got nuked in the chest.

So you know what the long term effects of a novel disease are, but not what the long term effects of the vaccine are, right? Or you know what the vaccine does, but also know the disease doesn’t cause problems? Just so we are on the same page


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 7:21 PM)

I don’t think it is crazy to ask questions. But if ruling out a huge differential is part of it, y’all are doing it wrong.

Before anyone says “that’s what you did in the Hamlin case” I do not believe that the vaccine is a relevant or related differential diagnosis in the presence of acute onset vfib post trauma.


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 8:01 PM)

This whole thing is absurd: 

Side “A” : maybe this thing we’d never heard of caused problems we didn’t foresee.

Side “B” : No, the thing with scary letters is causing literally every heart attack, stroke, or case of cancer in anyone who ever played sports, ever. 

I honestly would like nothing more than for there to be good evidence that vaccine related deaths were higher. The vaccine made me feel like shit, I’m. It getting another one unless i have to in order to get that bread. Also I wouldn’t have to be involved in this thread anymore. 

But then I read some of the “evidence” y’all post. Where a 65 year old obese black man dies of a heart attack and you blame it on a vaccine? Like yo, 65 year old men is like the prime demographic for dying of a heart attack, 50+ male and black are the top 3 unmodifiable risk factor for heart disease.  You trying to tell me 1100 or whatever young healthy athletes died suddenly, then I look at your evidence and it is FULL of people who died of cancer, committed suicide, fell off structures or hit their heads? Gimme a break. 

When you post absolute nonsense like that I push back. I don’t care about your opinion, honestly I don’t care if you get a vaccine, at all, but if your argument is actually horseshit I’m gonna push back.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Saturday at 8:10 PM)

I’m derailing this conversation.

What would be the rate of heart issues if the big sports mandated steroids?

I mean, these guys are getting paid ridiculous amounts to entertain us, so let’s make it worth our money. I want to see genetically modified humans crashing into each other. I want to see arm monsters knocking baseballs miles away. 

I get paid way less, and get asked to do much more harmful things to my body.


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 8:15 PM)

JedisonsDad said:


> I’m derailing this conversation.
> 
> What would be the rate of heart issues if the big sports mandated steroids?
> 
> ...



I do too, and for the most part you are. A huge percentage of athletes use PED’s.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Saturday at 8:20 PM)

TLDR20 said:


> I do too, and for the most part you are. A huge percentage of athletes use PED’s.


But I want it mandated and encouraged. I want Rollerball-esque leagues. The good one from the 70s, not the bullshit remake.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Saturday at 8:26 PM)

JedisonsDad said:


> I’m derailing this conversation.
> 
> What would be the rate of heart issues if the big sports mandated steroids?
> 
> ...


Incredibly harmful.  But hey, athletes would rather get concussed than tear their ACL almost 100% of the time. 




TLDR20 said:


> I do too, and for the most part you are. A huge percentage of athletes use PED’s.


No you don't [want to know/see the results].  You really don't. (the rate of heart failure and such would sky-rocket. Just look at pro bodybuilders for reference)


----------



## Devildoc (Saturday at 8:38 PM)

I am not willing to discount the potential severity and harm of the vaccine. I have seen the data regarding cardiomyopathy. I'm also willing to entertain the possibility that the vaccine, as well as the disease, has increased morbidity and mortality in young people, to include athletes.

That said: A lot of the deaths are easily explainable by things other than the vaccine and/or the disease. We need meaningful data before we can have an "aha!" moment.  But I also know this: even without the data, something just doesn't feel right by a lot of what we are seeing and reading about.  But nothing, and I mean nothing, in medicine moves without data.


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 8:41 PM)

Devildoc said:


> I am not willing to discount the potential severity and harm of the vaccine. I have seen the data regarding cardiomyopathy. I'm also willing to entertain the possibility that the vaccine, as well as the disease, has increased morbidity and mortality in young people, to include athletes.
> 
> That said: A lot of the deaths are easily explainable by things other than the vaccine and/or the disease. We need meaningful data before we can have an "aha!" moment.  But I also know this: even without the data, something just doesn't feel right by a lot of what we are seeing and reading about.  But nothing, and I mean nothing, in medicine moves without data.



I agree with every single thing you wrote.


----------



## amlove21 (Saturday at 9:00 PM)

Well, considering this is the 20th go round in these times- I’ll just wait. Everything else we have talked about has come true. So, just put a pin in it, and we can read about it in like 6 months.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Saturday at 9:02 PM)

Just my perception, but It ‘feels’ to me that the people questioning this vaccine, are the same people who were demonizing Jenny McCarthy when she was on her campaign that the Measles vaccine was causing autism.

Is there a difference?

* Obvious disclaimer:  I’m not talking about anyone in this forum, but the generalized ‘people’ overall


----------



## TLDR20 (Saturday at 9:19 PM)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Just my perception, but It ‘feels’ to me that the people questioning this vaccine, are the same people who were demonizing Jenny McCarthy when she was on her campaign that the Measles vaccine was causing autism.
> 
> Is there a difference?
> 
> * Obvious disclaimer:  I’m not talking about anyone in this forum, but the generalized ‘people’ overall


Are the same? Im not sure. I don’t think they are very related. I think there is overlap, but im not sure. I would hope that most people are sure of the efficacy of commonly administered vaccinations. However the recent uptick in vaccine preventable diseases tells me that vaccine hesitancy is at an all time high, and that sucks. It will be fun when kids start getting polio again.

But then again, people are questioning germ theory and if viruses are real in this thread so I don’t know.


----------



## RackMaster (Saturday at 9:25 PM)

JedisonsDad said:


> But I want it mandated and encouraged. I want Rollerball-esque leagues. The good one from the 70s, not the bullshit remake.


----------



## AWP (Saturday at 9:51 PM)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Just my perception, but It ‘feels’ to me that the people questioning this vaccine, are the same people who were demonizing Jenny McCarthy when she was on her campaign that the Measles vaccine was causing autism.
> 
> Is there a difference?
> 
> * Obvious disclaimer:  I’m not talking about anyone in this forum, but the generalized ‘people’ overall



McCarthy was against vaccines that were around for years based on a study shown to be flawed vice a vaccine around for months based on studies shown to be...yeah.


----------



## Marauder06 (Saturday at 10:11 PM)

The Conspiracy Theories Were Real, and Other Revelations | National Review


----------



## amlove21 (Sunday at 7:08 AM)

TLDR20 said:


> But then again, people are questioning germ theory and if viruses are real in this thread so I don’t know.


Germ theory not being real is 100% my favorite conspiracy theory. The CIA killing Kennedy and UFOs are just too blasè now.


----------



## GOTWA (Sunday at 7:46 AM)

So you're telling me I need to wash my hands...but only rinse my fruit?


----------



## Devildoc (Sunday at 8:04 AM)

amlove21 said:


> Germ theory not being real is 100% my favorite conspiracy theory. The CIA killing Kennedy and UFOs are just too blasè now.





GOTWA said:


> So you're telling me I need to wash my hands...but only rinse my fruit?



Eating from a food truck from any bordertown in Mexico and not washing your hands will definitively prove any theory of germ existence and transmission you will ever need to know.


----------



## GOTWA (Sunday at 8:34 AM)

Devildoc said:


> Eating from a food truck from any bordertown in Mexico and not washing your hands will definitively prove any theory of germ existence and transmission you will ever need to know.


I was born and raised in Arizona. I'd survive that one.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sunday at 8:57 AM)

Devildoc said:


> Eating from a food truck from any bordertown in Mexico and not washing your hands will definitively prove any theory of germ existence and transmission you will ever need to know.


Just because you gringos can't handle hot sauce and spices doesn't mean street food in Mexico is unclean. 

My response to you is, don't go to India. (Where the hot stuff will light your sphincter up for a month)


----------



## Devildoc (Sunday at 9:44 AM)

GOTWA said:


> I was born and raised in Arizona. I'd survive that one.



More proof: built immunity


----------



## Devildoc (Sunday at 9:46 AM)

ThunderHorse said:


> Just because you gringos can't handle hot sauce and spices doesn't mean street food in Mexico is unclean.
> 
> My response to you is, don't go to India. (Where the hot stuff with light your sphincter up for a month)



It's not the spice (been to India).  It's that they don't wash their hands; fecal-oral route is a thing.


----------



## Cookie_ (Sunday at 12:17 PM)

Devildoc said:


> It's not the spice (been to India).  It's that they don't wash their hands; fecal-oral route is a thing.



Thats the biggest one in those locations.

Face, fingers, flies, feces, and food (quality) are the "5 Fs" of common vector for food born illness, and feces is usually the strongest one due to the bacterial/viral load present.

Those locations commonly "clean" by rinsing off. I've had to teach more than my fair share of contractors that "looks clean is not clean without soap".


----------



## TLDR20 (Sunday at 12:17 PM)

Devildoc said:


> Eating from a food truck from any bordertown in Mexico and not washing your hands will definitively prove any theory of germ existence and transmission you will ever need to know.



Or watching Norovirus decimate a group of people.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sunday at 1:49 PM)

Italian tennis star embroiled in fake vaccine certificate scandal

A tennis player from Italy allegedly faked a COVID vaccination cert.  That's shitty.  But why are these things still being required?



> Camila Giorgi, an Italian tennis star who has three career singles titles and more than 400 wins on tour, was caught up in a fake vaccine certificate scandal.
> 
> Daniela Grillone, a doctor for the Giorgi family, alleged in an interview with Italian media that the tennis star received a fake COVID-19 vaccine certificate and that none of her family members have received the shot either, according to Yahoo Sport.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sunday at 2:30 PM)

TLDR20 said:


> The list that Amlove posted is filled with people in their 60’s. The most recent 6 he posted 3/6 were over 60 and one got nuked in the chest.
> 
> So you know what the long term effects of a novel disease are, but not what the long term effects of the vaccine are, right? Or you know what the vaccine does, but also know the disease doesn’t cause problems? Just so we are on the same page



So we're on the same page. Neither of us are novel disease experts.  We don't know the long term effects of this disease, although in the professional athlete population and service member population we are starting to see something. 

We definitely don't know what the vaccine actually does long term to the body.  Short term? Plenty of studies linked in this thread that discuss how mRNA vaccinated individuals became super spreaders. 

To reiterate.  So we're on the same page. NO ONE knows the long term effects of this disease, what we do know is the shots didn't work one bit. (Well they may have, but more in the way I said they would and not the way the medical orthodoxy, that cancelled people who asked questions, would work.)

We don't know the long term effects of the shots but I can tell you I sure as shit wasn't pumping mRNA into my body since there was going to no way to turn the damn thing off.  (Can't wait for the shot that pFizer tells the medical orthodoxy to peddle to us that will turn the mRNA off, oh and I bet for every shot you got you'll need an equal number because science) 

What we have learned from this whole thing is that the experts were not experts, that most of the government experts were wrong, and that most of the steps they forced upon us were also wrong. 

I'm not from New Hampshire, but I love their state motto.  Live Free or Die.  Trying to live free.  I did live in Virginia and that state motto? Sic Semper Tyrannus.  And Who is it that needs to be deposed? Fauci, Pfizer, Moderna, Trump, Biden, Newsom, and all the other shitheads that lied in the process.  

But like I said, so we're on the same page. No one knows anything about this (or rather I know a shit ton and I know we responded very poorly).



TLDR20 said:


> Are the same? Im not sure. I don’t think they are very related. I think there is overlap, but im not sure. I would hope that most people are sure of the efficacy of commonly administered vaccinations. However the recent uptick in vaccine preventable diseases tells me that vaccine hesitancy is at an all time high, and that sucks. It will be fun when kids start getting polio again.
> 
> But then again, people are questioning germ theory and if viruses are real in this thread so I don’t know.



Who in the thread is questioning germ theory other than Rabbit? 

In regards to Polio, we're talking about an immunization that is proven to work that has almost 100 years of data.  

For seasonal diseases, which is what COVID is now.  (Thanks China and your labs) We need to compare this to the flu and really nothing else. But hey I remember the H1N1 very well and we didn't shut down the world for that.

ETA:

Last point for this post to make.  Some of us, well we deal with a specific population.  As part of my role in 2021 to get our season working was coordinating testing with our contracted lab.  We had 12 teams in 12 different cities + HQ staff and Contractors spread all across the country. Vast majority of the population in the testing cohort for us are professional athletes ages 21-39. Monitoring results was pretty intense and generally led me to having to call a GM or a Coach to do contact tracing and isolation.  

What we learned then is what I learned during lockdown. That you could be in a tiny room with someone who is highly contagious, breath the same air for hours, and never get infected. I said back then before the board was put on vacation: "Virus gonna virus".  Saying the same thing. Now we did not have the money that the NFL, NBA, MLB had to spend on contact tracing bracelets, but what we learned from them (and all the countries that did the process in a regressive manner) is that contact tracing was pretty worthless. 

I'm not my org's medical director either, but I sent every study that was focused on professional athletes and every protocol update from the NFL to the headshed.  Because if the NFL wasn't doing it, we shouldn't be doing it.  Cost benefit analysis.  But I'm about as well read on COVID as any person can be that wasn't in the lab creating it. I'm not a medical professional, but most folks in the medical profession saying they know better is just not true based on the last three years.  They made a guess, a bad one based on their biases. 
_____________
A shitty governor in New York who was ousted for a sexual assault claim caused the deaths of thousands of elderly as he forced old folks homes to intake infected individuals.  Quarantine procedures for old folks homes are insane, but he compelled private facilities to break their own policies and procedures.  And he will never be held to account. 

So like with anything: if you're obese, over 70, or smoke a pack a day, you're likely gonna die from a viral infection if you're immune system is compromised. Tell me something I didn't know prior to 2005 please.


----------



## Marauder06 (Sunday at 3:10 PM)

What's interesting is the way we interpret the things we hear, and how they confirm our biases. 

Take, for example, the below story.  An 18-year-old female MMA star has died.  The article does not say how it happened.  For all I know she could have been hit by a bus.  But the first thing I thought of when I read the  headline was "I wonder if this was vax-related."  I don't even know if she got the vax.  And like I said I don't know what she died from.  However, since we're talking about the possibility of vax-related deaths, and I believe there may be a connection, I automatically thought first that her death and the vax are related.

But there is no evidence to support it, and given the enormity of all the things that could have killed her, it's extremely unlikely that the COVID vax had anything to do with it.

The problem is, most people in the world are WAY too ready to engage in recency and confirmation biases.  Those are things all of us should be on guard against.

Victoria Lee, rising MMA star in ONE Championship, dead at 18


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sunday at 3:23 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> What's interesting is the way we interpret the things we hear, and how they confirm our biases.
> 
> Take, for example, the below story.  An 18-year-old female MMA star has died.  The article does not say how it happened.  For all I know she could have been hit by a bus.  But the first thing I thought of when I read the  headline was "I wonder if this was vax-related."  I don't even know if she got the vax.  And like I said I don't know what she died from.  However, since we're talking about the possibility of vax-related deaths, and I believe there may be a connection, I automatically thought first that her death and the vax are related.
> 
> ...



Often times when I read things about "how tragic" it was.  I assume suicide.  I had a cousin who committed suicide.  But instead of talking about it his family went to great lengths not to say he took a ton of pills one night. In his obituary they said he died of misadventure. But knowing that subset of my family and how weird and crazy liberal they are I'm not surprised they wouldn't just admit he had problems.  To them, he had been addressing his problems. But his parents were divorced and both had moved away from where he was living.  None of his siblings were living near him. I remember asking my mother to find out what happened because all of a sudden I just see a post on facebook about his memorial service (was delayed like a year) this last Summer.  And considering he was living in California and in LA County.  I'll say it was COVID related for sure...but a mental health issue that was created by Newsom and the liberal politicians that infect LA County.


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## digrar (Sunday at 3:49 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> Italian tennis star embroiled in fake vaccine certificate scandal
> 
> A tennis player from Italy allegedly faked a COVID vaccination cert.  That's shitty.  But why are these things still being required?



 Confirmation of vaccination status is longer a requirement for entry into Australia. But I also imagine the immigration department would take a pretty dim view of people travelling on fraudulent documentation, past or present.


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## AWP (Sunday at 4:36 PM)

Scrolling back to posts from earlier today, there's a joke or two about A2M there, but I'm too tired to work on them. Go get 'em, boys!


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## Marauder06 (Sunday at 4:51 PM)

AWP said:


> Scrolling back to posts from earlier today, there's a joke or two about A2M there, but I'm too tired to work on them. Go get 'em, boys!


I didn't understand the context and had to look up what A2M meant.

Now I'm sorry I did.  ;)


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## Muppet (Sunday at 5:10 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> I didn't understand the context and had to look up what A2M meant.
> 
> Now I'm sorry I did.  ;)



Never, NEVER, go A2M!


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## Marauder06 (Sunday at 5:22 PM)

Muppet said:


> Never, NEVER, go A2M!


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## Marauder06 (Tuesday at 6:32 PM)

COVID mandate lifted for DoD?


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## ThunderHorse (Tuesday at 6:34 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> COVID mandate lifted for DoD?


I got the email from my IRR career manager saying so about two weeks past.


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## Marauder06 (Tuesday at 6:43 PM)

I just saw the official letter today.  Well overdue.  

Now to make things right for all of the people we needlessly booted out, or prevented from joining/re-enlisting.


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## amlove21 (Tuesday at 6:43 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> COVID mandate lifted for DoD?


Coast guard published then rescinded their mandate today. It (mandate) was part of the concessions demanded of Kevin McCarthy and the speakership.


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## Marauder06 (Tuesday at 6:58 PM)

amlove21 said:


> Coast guard published then rescinded their mandate today. It (mandate) was part of the concessions demanded of Kevin McCarthy and the speakership.


I don't think that the new R congress has had time to push something like that through.  Wasn't it in the bill spending bill that passed a while back?


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## ThunderHorse (Tuesday at 7:28 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't think that the new R congress has had time to push something like that through.  Wasn't it in the bill spending bill that passed a while back?


Yeah it was in the monstrosity of a bill, but didn't include severance or rehire of personnel administratively separated. But that is the next thing to get done.


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## amlove21 (Tuesday at 8:44 PM)

It’s what was in the NDAA, and it was a nothing burger. The ‘mandate’ is over, but the requirement for vaccination for deployments and assignments (and some TDYs) won’t go anywhere. 

Looks cool, not super useful in practice.


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## amlove21 (Tuesday at 8:45 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> I don't think that the new R congress has had time to push something like that through.  Wasn't it in the bill spending bill that passed a while back?


My other comment was in reply to this one- this was not a concession to McCarthy, it was in the NDAA. My b!


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## AWP (Tuesday at 9:00 PM)

Covid? Nothing in the news about it, isn't it the cookware used by celebrity chefs?


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## Dame (Tuesday at 9:19 PM)

AWP said:


> Covid? Nothing in the news about it, isn't it the cookware used by celebrity chefs?


LOL. Thought I had it again today cuz I couldn't taste my soup. Then I realized hubby bought the "HeartSmart/50%LessSodium/Good4U" soup. Turns out it is, in fact, tasteless.


Sorry sweetie.


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## Marauder06 (Tuesday at 9:57 PM)

I just read the SECDEF's letter revoking the policy.  It's... disappointing.


amlove21 said:


> It’s what was in the NDAA, and it was a nothing burger. The ‘mandate’ is over, but the requirement for vaccination for deployments and assignments (and some TDYs) won’t go anywhere.
> 
> Looks cool, not super useful in practice.


I was talking to my wife about this earlier tonight.  I remember when  you brought it up before.  "You don't have to get the COVID vax, but you're not going to have a meaningful career in the military if you don't."


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## Muppet (Tuesday at 11:18 PM)

Disagreement Among Progressives Over Whether The Vax Is The Literal Body Of Fauci Or Just Symbolic


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## amlove21 (Tuesday at 11:51 PM)

Marauder06 said:


> I just read the SECDEF's letter revoking the policy.  It's... disappointing.
> 
> I was talking to my wife about this earlier tonight.  I remember when  you brought it up before.  "You don't have to get the COVID vax, but you're not going to have a meaningful career in the military if you don't."


Yep. They are ‘stopping punishment’ for those they haven’t kicked out yet, but they’re still not allowed to deploy or take overseas PCS, or TDY. Because they can write that little clause into the reporting instructions. 

Means very little in practice. Disappointing is right.


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## Devildoc (Yesterday at 8:41 AM)

My organization is going back to "temporary masking requirements" in spite of local numbers going back down from a flu/COVID surge.  I am not, have not, masked in my building (non-clinical) and people are giving me the stink eye.


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## amlove21 (Yesterday at 1:09 PM)

It’s just satire people. Hilarious, cynical satire.  


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


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## Cookie_ (Yesterday at 2:04 PM)

I've only heard of one person that rescinding the COVID vax requirement is negatively affecting.

It's a soldier who was in the process of getting booted with an OTH for concaine use, but learned all vax refusals were just general discharges. He refused the vax and that packet was initiated before the drug use one made it up to State.

He called me this morning (been AWOL without communication since Vax policy went into effect) upset his discharge packet didn't move quickly and now he might get a worse discharge.


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## Muppet (Yesterday at 2:52 PM)

Devildoc said:


> My organization is going back to "temporary masking requirements" in spite of local numbers going back down from a flu/COVID surge.  I am not, have not, masked in my building (non-clinical) and people are giving me the stink eye.



I'm surprised my liberal Township employer went to no mandated masks about 6 months back. Some wear em, I don't. Some of us don't, some wear em because "I don't want to cause waves"....

Fuck your waves.

I barely wear em in hospital settings. We'd walk into EDs, most RNs/MDs are masked below chin, see us, pull em up. It's ghey.

I just had some "security guard" at a local ED that is associated with a city trauma center, call me a "nasty motherfucker" for not wearing one. I kept nice and told the roach to "stop cussing, you're stereotyping yourself", that set her off more. Fuck her, especially when 10 feet away, every RN was mask on chin at nursing station. Brainwashed cunts.

Maria and I went to store the other night, 2 younger folks, guy/girl were double masked. I walked by and said, loudly, "hail lord Fauci". Fuck them. These cunts called us conspiracy theorists for 2 plus years, I'll shame them.


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## Dame (Yesterday at 3:56 PM)

Muppet said:


> Disagreement Among Progressives Over Whether The Vax Is The Literal Body Of Fauci Or Just Symbolic


I am just crying here.


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## AWP (Yesterday at 8:39 PM)

Covid's not a set of cookware? What is it, because no one's talking about it outside of here...


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## Muppet (Today at 1:57 AM)

AWP said:


> Covid's not a set of cookware? What is it, because no one's talking about it outside of here...



Well, sort of. News still is fear mongering, hospitals are still freaking out. Liberals are still virtue signaling it.


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## amlove21 (Today at 12:04 PM)

AWP said:


> Covid's not a set of cookware? What is it, because no one's talking about it outside of here...


No one’s talking about COVID, per se. They stopped briefing numbers on slides months ago, which is nice.


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## Devildoc (Today at 12:21 PM)

amlove21 said:


> No one’s talking about COVID, per se. They stopped briefing numbers on slides months ago, which is nice.



Not here, not in my AO.  The numbers are going down, but they're screeching about masking and "social distancing".


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## amlove21 (Today at 1:38 PM)

Devildoc said:


> Not here, not in my AO.  The numbers are going down, but they're screeching about masking and "social distancing".


Bruh that’s terrible. I don’t know if I can live east of the Mississippi anymore. The east coast in general is way more wacky about all this. 

Texas is probably as far east as I’m gonna go for a while lol.


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## Devildoc (Today at 1:59 PM)

amlove21 said:


> Bruh that’s terrible. I don’t know if I can live east of the Mississippi anymore. The east coast in general is way more wacky about all this.
> 
> Texas is probably as far east as I’m gonna go for a while lol.



Aside from where I work, it's business as usual and not a big deal. But where I work? Yeah, it's a big deal (though I have no clue why, especially when the numbers are going down).


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## Muppet (Today at 2:06 PM)

Devildoc said:


> Aside from where I work, it's business as usual and not a big deal. But where I work? Yeah, it's a big deal (though I have no clue why, especially when the numbers are going down).



Litigation I suspect. God forbid yall don't act like the world's ending and some toad catches rona from a doc or nurse, some money hungry leach will sue and get rich. IMHO


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## Devildoc (Today at 2:08 PM)

Muppet said:


> Litigation I suspect. God forbid yall don't act like the world's ending and some toad catches rona from a doc or nurse, some money hungry leach will sue and get rich. IMHO



I do think that's part of it. Part of it is the chicken little syndrome as well.  Since I work in a non-clinical building, masking is adjusted but not required, though they are close to requiring it.  My boss, my direct report, doesn't really care, my big boss, THE boss, cares very much, and she'll be the one that has to say something.


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## Muppet (Today at 2:11 PM)

Devildoc said:


> I do think that's part of it. Part of it is the chicken little syndrome as well.  Since I work in a non-clinical building, masking is adjusted but not required, though they are close to requiring it.  My boss, my direct report, doesn't really care, my big boss, THE boss, cares very much, and she'll be the one that has to say something.



I definitely think it's a political thing, depending on where folks lay.


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