# Becoming an officer and a green beret.



## Quest (Jul 22, 2020)

Hi, Im 31 years old. I turn 32 in about 2 months. I need a waiver for a vehicular manslaughter charge from 2009. It was non violent, non drug, or alcohol related. Its a misdemeanor, and was expunged in 2016, but I have all the records. I fell asleep driving home from work. I planned on joining the Navy when I was 28, but I broke my collar bone, and since then Ive been rehabilitating, but Ill need a waiver for that too. I had my hardware removed, except for a suture fixation between my clavicle and coracoid process.

Is it even possible to join the Navy and go through Buds at this point?  I have 45 college credits, if that helps. Thanks.


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## AWP (Jul 22, 2020)

Ask a recruiter.


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## Devildoc (Jul 22, 2020)

On the face of it you would need multiple waivers: age, manslaughter, and the injury.  That is an extraordinary uphill battle.  Not saying it can't be done, but I have not heard of anyone getting multiple waivers like that.


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## Quest (Jul 22, 2020)

Im 31 years old. Can anyone speak on the best route from someone my age to become an officer? My goal is to become an officer and a Green Beret. I have 45 college credits. Thank you.


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## AWP (Jul 22, 2020)

Quest said:


> Im 31 years old. Can anyone speak on the best route from someone my age to become an officer? My goal is to become an officer and a Green Beret. I have 45 college credits. Thank you.



What are the requirements to become a Special Forces officer? You can't break down the path until you know the rocks you have to climb.


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## Steve1839 (Jul 22, 2020)

Quest said:


> IMy goal is to become an officer and a Green Beret. I have 45 college credits. Thank you.


To become an officer these days, you have to have a degree...45 credits ain't gonna cut it...I suspect if you have been awarded the MOH or a DSC, there might be an exception made, but otherwise, a degree is the ground floor...of course, you could look it up on the internet here...
How to Become an Army Officer
....initiative is usually one of the hallmarks of an officer....as far as being a green beret...there was a saying around the time I was qualified that there were never many folks in Special Forces, but the world was filled with green berets...a green beret is a hat, not a soldier...Girl Scouts wear green berets...


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## Quest (Jul 22, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> To become an officer these days, you have to have a degree...45 credits ain't gonna cut it...I suspect if you have been awarded the MOH or a DSC, there might be an exception made, but otherwise, a degree is the ground floor...of course, you could look it up on the internet here...
> How to Become an Army Officer
> ....initiative is usually one of the hallmarks of an officer....as far as being a green beret...there was a saying around the time I was qualified that there were never many folks in Special Forces, but the world was filled with green berets...a green beret is a hat, not a soldier...Girl Scouts wear green berets...


Thanks for your reply.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

It is possible. Not likely. The SEAL community is packed full and they don’t really care to give a waiver to a guy to go when they have their pick of guys who don’t need waivers. I heard the Commanding Officer tell a class a few classes back that they had already doubled their quota for the year, and if every single one of the guys in the class quit, he wouldn’t care.
Now if you had some crazy relevant experience, like if you were a prior Special Operator with a different unit, they might consider you.

To get a SEAL contract you first have to get an arbitrary contract (mine was Air Traffic Controller or AC) and then go take the Physical Screening Test (PST) to even attempt to earn a SEAL contract.

Through my own research, I have made the opinion that Special Forces (Green Berets) tend to value wisdom and maturity more than the other units. I’m stating this because it is my opinion that if you:

1. Signed a contract through the Navy for an arbitrary rate.
2. Are not able to get a waiver for a SEAL contract.

3. backed out of the Navy, and then tried to go Army and get an 18X contract.

4. Now need fresh waivers because you are shopping around a different service.

I’m thinking the General who is reviewing your waiver is going to tell you to go F*%# yourself.

Pick one. I think you should go SF. They are older and wiser. SEALs prefer to beat their guys up young.

Disclaimer. I’m in Navy Special Warfare, and my opinion on SF is from the outside looking in.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> To become an officer these days, you have to have a degree...45 credits ain't gonna cut it...I suspect if you have been awarded the MOH or a DSC, there might be an exception made, but otherwise, a degree is the ground floor...of course, you could look it up on the internet here...
> How to Become an Army Officer
> ....initiative is usually one of the hallmarks of an officer....as far as being a green beret...there was a saying around the time I was qualified that there were never many folks in Special Forces, but the world was filled with green berets...a green beret is a hat, not a soldier...Girl Scouts wear green berets...



Yea don’t bother trying to be an officer. You can try that road way later on. If you are going to try and do this, go enlisted. Also look into trying your hand at National Guard SF.


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> It is possible. Not likely. The SEAL community is packed full and they don’t really care to give a waiver to a guy to go when they have their pick of guys who don’t need waivers. I heard the Commanding Officer tell a class a few classes back that they had already doubled their quota for the year, and if every single one of the guys in the class quit, he wouldn’t care.
> Now if you had some crazy relevant experience, like if you were a prior Special Operator with a different unit, they might consider you.
> 
> To get a SEAL contract you first have to get an arbitrary contract (mine was Air Traffic Controller or AC) and then go take the Physical Screening Test (PST) to even attempt to earn a SEAL contract.
> ...



Hey thanks. Disclaimer, long paragraph full of "I want this and that" ahead.

I always wanted to become a seal, but I got married early and my wife wasnt having it. I hate myself for not leaving her then, and for wasting so much time. I guess im loyal to a fault. I began training for it again, after my divorce, when I was 27. I was in the best shape of my life when I got hit by a car while biking to work. Now that Im healed, and 31, I was thinking trying for the Green Berets- even though Im still thinking about the Seals. I speak a fair amount of spanish (Im looking for anything that might help me stand out in selection). I read that if you have 48 credits, you can join as an e3. Well, I have 45. Maybe I can take a CLEP exam and get those 3 credits, but right now my local college testing centers are closed due to the pandemic. Im currently looking for a way to do this online. If I were to join soon, id go for the 18x contract, but I dont want to get thrown into a job Id rather not do (no disrespect to the men and women who serve, wherever they serve). Personally, I do not want to spend 8 years cooking for the army. Ive definitely heard my fill of horror stories from disgruntled service members, and Ive been working dead end jobs since i was 13. Through a variety of shit life choices and bad luck, thats all ive ever known. I do have a lot of faith in my physical and mental ability. I know I will stand out for that. Of course this goes without saying, but it would be great to pass selection. I want to lead, and fight. I wonder if it would be better to join after I graduate with a bachelors, and join as an e4?Ill be 33-34 by then. Would the Green Berets still take me then? Im confused by the enlisted personal qualifications clause stating I must be airborne (e7)

Special Forces Qualifications and Benefits

Hey, if you made it through all that, I really appreciate your time.


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

AWP said:


> What are the requirements to become a Special Forces officer? You can't break down the path until you know the rocks you have to climb.





Steve1839 said:


> To become an officer these days, you have to have a degree...45 credits ain't gonna cut it...I suspect if you have been awarded the MOH or a DSC, there might be an exception made, but otherwise, a degree is the ground floor...of course, you could look it up on the internet here...
> How to Become an Army Officer
> ....initiative is usually one of the hallmarks of an officer....as far as being a green beret...there was a saying around the time I was qualified that there were never many folks in Special Forces, but the world was filled with green berets...a green beret is a hat, not a soldier...Girl Scouts wear green berets...


Thanks for your reply. I


Arf said:


> Yea don’t bother trying to be an officer. You can try that road way later on. If you are going to try and do this, go enlisted. Also look into trying your hand at National Guard SF.


Thanks, and I wanted to clarify that by officer, I meant e4.


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> Yea don’t bother trying to be an officer. You can try that road way later on. If you are going to try and do this, go enlisted. Also look into trying your hand at National Guard SF.


If I were to not pass selection for some reason, could I try again? If so along what time frame?


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## Hardboiled (Jul 23, 2020)

Quest, to be honest with you... Man, you need to focus on getting your shit together... You need to suck up your millennial me-me-me bullshit, start from zero and work your way out of the mental shithole you yourself and society has dug and thrown you into over the years. You are worried about so much bullshit that isn't even remotely realistic. Maybe you can do a lot of shit, you can imagine doing all sorts of jobs, but you need to pick a path and study up for yourself as well... There are a lot of people posting on shadowspear whom have asked the same questions, but the answers are literally out in the open if you just use basic keywords and start reading what others have gone through.  

You got way more shit stacked against you then worrying about getting in as a E-3.... SF is not easy, and it can be one of the most dangerous jobs in the Military currently with a high risk of being a casualty and maimed on top of being KIA. This isn't something you just nilly-willy jump into without first seeing if you even qualify to join the service. You need to get your shit together first.... and focus on the nearest target first, before you try making huge jumps that look impossible at the moment. I am not saying its impossible, but its unlikely you'll be able to be an officer and go SFAS, and you will only get one shot at it once you do get a class date to try out.

You are 31 now, I recommend you spend the next 6 months improving yourself instead, mentally and physically. Look at what you typed and imagine if it was someone else asking these questions to you... you need to start assessing yourself now and fixing your serious flaws as much as you can. Read books to learn more about what you might be getting into, and stop worrying about "what ifs" because if you keep doing that, you'll never get anywhere.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 23, 2020)

Hardboiled said:


> <post>


Hi!

Since you are not vetted, please take a moment and explain what Special Forces and/or SEAL experience you have to write such a post?


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## Hardboiled (Jul 23, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Hi!
> 
> Interesting 2nd post.
> 
> Since you are not vetted, please take a moment and explain what Special Forces and/or SEAL experience you have to write such a post?


Ooh-Rah, 

I have none, I can delete it if its to much on the stepping out of my line.  Everything I said was essentially open source and common knowledge to anyone who wants to try out for selection.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 23, 2020)

Hardboiled said:


> Ooh-Rah,
> 
> I have none, I can delete it if its to much on the stepping out of my line.  Everything I said was essentially open source and common knowledge to anyone who wants to try out for selection.


No.  We won't be deleting it, you said what you said and it stands.

For future reference, members come to this site for assistance and we do our best to answer them with respectful and factual information; ideally by someone who is a SME in the area being asked about.

You were not respectful, you are not factual, and you are are certainly not a subject matter expert on anything relevant to this thread. 

Going forward understand your lane and watch your tone.

Consider this a warning.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

Quest said:


> I speak a fair amount of spanish (Im looking for anything that might help me stand out in selection). I read that if you have 48 credits, you can join as an e3. Well, I have 45.



A lot of people speak Spanish, it helps but is not extraordinary. 45 credits may (probably) get you E-3. I can’t speak for the SF community but I imagine it is the same. Most enlisted going for SEAL/SWCC straight into boot camp have their bachelors and a high number have their masters. You are looking at going into a community of highly motivated individuals. This is no joke. These guys with their masters leave 6 figure salaries behind because they want to do something more meaningful to them. They choose to be enlisted because they want the enlisted job more than the officer job.




Quest said:


> If I were to join soon, id go for the 18x contract, but I dont want to get thrown into a job Id rather not do (no disrespect to the men and women who serve, wherever they serve). Personally, I do not want to spend 8 years cooking for the army. Ive definitely heard my fill of horror stories from disgruntled service members, and Ive been working dead end jobs since i was 13. Through a variety of shit life choices and bad luck, thats all ive ever known. I do have a lot of faith in my physical and mental ability. I know I will stand out for that. Of course this goes without saying, but it would be great to pass selection.



I don’t think making fun of this statement is going to help you any, but I recommend reading through what you just said here and contemplating what is wrong with your mentality.
Of course it would be nice to pass selection. Everyone that steps into the pipeline would love to pass selection. No one goes into selection thinking, “well I guess I’ll give it a shot”. If you do, you are done.

Part of what makes this whole process so insane is that we all volunteer twice. We volunteer to serve, and we volunteer to get the living shit beat out of us in an attempt to do something statistically virtually impossible.

The attrition rate is not just a rumor. I’ve literally cried several times during selection because I was in disbelief of what I had just accomplished. I thought I was going to die many times. My attitude when I felt I was having a near death experience?
“F%#*ing kill me before you pull me out.” I’ve passed out under water, and also on land. I woke up surprised, but realizing that as long as I’m still conscious, I’m still capable of more. Even if I wasn’t conscious, well the instructors were at least able to see that I wasn’t a quitter.

There are guys who deserve to get through, yet they can’t because of injuries. At your age you better be shit hot before you get here. If you are barely making time, then you might as well iron your apron and start peeling potatoes. Your body isn’t going to get stronger in the pipeline, your body will be destroyed.

Really sit and contemplate your reasons why you want to do this. @x SF med has a beautifully written post on this exactly, if someone can help me find it.
Statistically, the chances of making it through are slim to none. Make sure this is what you really want.







Quest said:


> I want to lead, and fight. I wonder if it would be better to join after I graduate with a bachelors, and join as an e4?Ill be 33-34 by then.



If you decide you still want this, you are done doing school until after you graduate the pipeline. Maybe one day you can apply to commission, but right now you don’t have time to be screwing around with school. All you have time to do is train as hard as you can without getting injured.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

Quest said:


> If I were to not pass selection for some reason, could I try again? If so along what time frame?



At your age you will most likely never get another shot.


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

Hardboiled said:


> Quest, to be honest with you... Man, you need to focus on getting your shit together... You need to suck up your millennial me-me-me bullshit, start from zero and work your way out of the mental shithole you yourself and society has dug and thrown you into over the years. You are worried about so much bullshit that isn't even remotely realistic. Maybe you can do a lot of shit, you can imagine doing all sorts of jobs, but you need to pick a path and study up for yourself as well... There are a lot of people posting on shadowspear whom have asked the same questions, but the answers are literally out in the open if you just use basic keywords and start reading what others have gone through.
> 
> You got way more shit stacked against you then worrying about getting in as a E-3.... SF is not easy, and it can be one of the most dangerous jobs in the Military currently with a high risk of being a casualty and maimed on top of being KIA. This isn't something you just nilly-willy jump into without first seeing if you even qualify to join the service. You need to get your shit together first.... and focus on the nearest target first, before you try making huge jumps that look impossible at the moment. I am not saying its impossible, but its unlikely you'll be able to be an officer and go SFAS, and you will only get one shot at it once you do get a class date to try out.
> 
> You are 31 now, I recommend you spend the next 6 months improving yourself instead, mentally and physically. Look at what you typed and imagine if it was someone else asking these questions to you... you need to start assessing yourself now and fixing your serious flaws as much as you can. Read books to learn more about what you might be getting into, and stop worrying about "what ifs" because if you keep doing that, you'll never get anywhere.


Thanks for being candid and direct with me. Its refreshing, and I respect and appreciate your advice.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

In regard to what I have said, *do not practice breath holding underwater. Lay in bed and hold your breath so that if you pass out you go to sleep soundly.*


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## Hardboiled (Jul 23, 2020)

Understood Ooh-Rah,  I should have been more respectful and factual,  you are correct.  I will take this as a lesson myself,  Thank you.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

By the way, in Navy boot camp, you can take a leadership position, hold that leadership position the entire time, and they will probably give you E-3 even if your credits don’t work. The Recruit Division Commanders (RDCs- Like Drill Instructors) have a certain number of promotions they can give out to outstanding students.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

I edited some of what I said about being an officer vs. enlisted. I know a lot of conventional enlisted with degrees that hold fulfilling MOS/Rates. They love being enlisted rather than officer.  In a lot of ways being enlisted is thought to be a more fulfilling way of life, despite the pay. Being an officer has a lot of drawbacks.


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## ThunderHorse (Jul 23, 2020)

In regards to becoming an officer, I went through AOBC with a dude who was in the last class at OCS that fell under the 90 credit rule.  He had to complete his degree within 24 months of his first duty station or be discharged.  You cannot get a slot to OCS in a guard/reserve unit or through active duty recruitment without a bachelors degree.  And having a degree just gets you into your local recruiters candidate pool. 

The amount of waivers you require will make it very tough to commission.  Should you be able to enlist, excellent service at your first duty station with glowing Letters of Recommendation from your chain of command may get you a shot at OCS, but even then it is not simple.


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## Steve1839 (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> @x SF med has a beautifully written post on this exactly, if someone can help me find it.
> Statistically, the chances of making it through are slim to none. Make sure this is what you really want.


You mean this...?
Why do we do this?  Items to consider.


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## Steve1839 (Jul 23, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> In regards to becoming an officer, I went through AOBC with a dude who was in the last class at OCS that fell under the 90 credit rule.  He had to complete his degree within 24 months of his first duty station or be discharged.


Holy smokes...I finished my degree with 8 years of commissioned service...right before CAS cubed...but those were different times...I was allowed to bootstrap for 18 months in order to finish my degree...it was  a very different Army then...


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## Kaldak (Jul 23, 2020)

You still can here, in WI ARNG, but you're not a top candidate and won't get federal recognition beyond a 1LT. I know a few through my ex that have spent 15yrs as a 1LT in the guard or higher, but no federal recognition. They still accept people with 60 credits, though on a case by case basis.

The wonders of Guard v Regular.


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## LimaPanther (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> In regard to what I have said, *do not practice breath holding underwater. Lay in bed and hold your breath so that if you pass out you go to sleep soundly.*



Did you go thru the Sub Escape course? I went through at Pearl and have some great pictures coming up.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

No I did not but I would love to see that!!!

@LimaPanther


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

Steve1839 said:


> You mean this...?
> Why do we do this?  Items to consider.


I cant thank you enough for finding this. I was looking forward to reading Steve1839's post, and a little worried that my motives might not be the right ones. I spent a long time reading, and re-reading Arf's reply. Why do I want to do this? I spent a while writing, and deleting. Steve1839 is right. This isnt something easy to explain. I was relieved to find that the motives he listed match my own. If I wanted money, there are better ways. Being cool? Not on my radar. Glory? I want no praise.

What I want is to push myself, and that is something I will always do. There is an awe in it, a coming to God moment. I would stand with those who live under this same Law, without regard for personal safety. To serve alongside my brothers, that's the only way I want to live. Without this, everything else is meaningless.


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

Quest said:


> I cant thank you enough for finding this. I was looking forward to reading SF Meds* post, and a little worried that my motives might not be the right ones. I spent a long time reading, and re-reading Arf's reply. Why do I want to do this? I spent a while writing, and deleting. SF Med* is right. This isnt something easy to explain. I was relieved to find that the motives he listed match my own. If I wanted money, there are better ways. Being cool? Not on my radar. Glory? I want no praise.
> 
> What I want is to push myself, and that is something I will always do. There is an awe in it, a coming to God moment. I would stand with those who live under this same Law, without regard for personal safety. To serve alongside my brothers, that's the only way I want to live. Without this, everything else is meaningless.


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## LimaPanther (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> No I did not but I would love to see that!!!
> 
> @LimaPanther



Do you want me to send them to you or do you think it would be okay to post them here so others can enjoy the past? I'm missing a couple of pics but have found 3.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

Quest said:


> I cant thank you enough for finding this. I was looking forward to reading Steve1839's post, and a little worried that my motives might not be the right ones. I spent a long time reading, and re-reading Arf's reply. Why do I want to do this? I spent a while writing, and deleting. Steve1839 is right. This isnt something easy to explain. I was relieved to find that the motives he listed match my own. If I wanted money, there are better ways. Being cool? Not on my radar. Glory? I want no praise.
> 
> What I want is to push myself, and that is something I will always do. There is an awe in it, a coming to God moment. I would stand with those who live under this same Law, without regard for personal safety. To serve alongside my brothers, that's the only way I want to live. Without this, everything else is meaningless.





This is a better answer than the kind of thing you said in the prior post. I realize you probably were just mind dumping, but make sure you spend a lot of time sitting and thinking about why you want this. It’s really what separates the guys who succeed from the guys who don’t.

I want to add that at the worst of times during selection— particularly during the Tour (SWCC’s 74ish hour “Hell Week”)— I pictured my loved ones faces, replaying their last conversations with me, rapid fire on repeat. Looking forward to making that phone call to my mom and others with, “I made it through the Tour!” When I was being surf tortured for an ungodly amount of time, my mind went to “I can’t wait to hear that you are successful at the end of this!”
I’m getting emotional just thinking about it. My poor mom was probably so stressed out😂😂😂.

Of course, this can’t be your only motivation, but in the worst of times, visualizing your success, and the joy of those who love you can be very powerful.


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> Do you want me to send them to you or do you think it would be okay to post them here so others can enjoy the past? I'm missing a couple of pics but have found 3.



@LimaPanther You have so much more military experience than I do, I very much divert to your wisdom on the question of OPSEC. I think it would be awesome to see you in action though!


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## LimaPanther (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> @LimaPanther You have so much more military experience than I do, I very much divert to your wisdom on the question of OPSEC. I think it would be awesome to see you in action though!



These don't give any info that would counter OPSEC


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

These are amazing!!!!!!!!! I got the chills when I opened these. If people aren’t inspired by these they are hopeless😅


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## Quest (Jul 23, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> These don't give any info that would counter OPSEC


Hey Big Thanks for sharing these. Incredible


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## Arf (Jul 23, 2020)

LimaPanther said:


> These don't give any info that would counter OPSEC



Do they have your hands tied?


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## LimaPanther (Jul 23, 2020)

Arf said:


> Do they have your hands tied?



No. Just wanted us to let gravitation and the life jacket take us up. The hard part was getting use to sitting in the narrow room and having the water rise up your body. Once the water got to your mouth you took a breath of air and then they opened the hatch and up you went. This was to prepare us when we had to exit a sub while it was submerged and swim in to run our mission. Of course when that happened we had our tanks.


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## AWP (Jul 24, 2020)

Quest said:


> Hey thanks. Disclaimer, long paragraph full of "I want this and that" ahead.
> 
> Special Forces Qualifications and Benefits
> 
> Hey, if you made it through all that, I really appreciate your time.



I'm genuinely not attempting to be a dick, I just tend to be blunt and that rubs people the wrong way.

You just asked us questions where the answers are LITERALLY in the link you posted. Those answers aren't from reddit or quora or something, they are straight from the Army. That also means you can find information on general enlistment questions as well.

It is a little insulting to the person(s) you ask when you have the answers in front of you. You are telegraphing to them that you are unable or unwilling to understand the information and that's not a good look for you.

Good luck.


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## AWP (Jul 24, 2020)

ThunderHorse said:


> You cannot get a slot to OCS in a guard/reserve unit or through active duty recruitment without a bachelors degree.  And having a degree just gets you into your local recruiters candidate pool.



That's not 100% true. That applies to candidates for federal OCS.

Army National Guard


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## Quest (Jul 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> I'm genuinely not attempting to be a dick, I just tend to be blunt and that rubs people the wrong way.
> 
> You just asked us questions where the answers are LITERALLY in the link you posted. Those answers aren't from reddit or quora or something, they are straight from the Army. That also means you can find information on general enlistment questions as well.
> 
> ...


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## Quest (Jul 24, 2020)

AWP said:


> I'm genuinely not attempting to be a dick, I just tend to be blunt and that rubs people the wrong way.
> 
> You just asked us questions where the answers are LITERALLY in the link you posted. Those answers aren't from reddit or quora or something, they are straight from the Army. That also means you can find information on general enlistment questions as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks AWP. Ill take what you said to heart.


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