# 19th SFG(A)



## busyworks (Aug 1, 2019)

So after a few years of contracting/private investigations, and bugging all of you about info on everything from Intel to FO/JTAC gigs, I'm finally getting back into service.

I'm going to Utah to swear in with the 19th SFG(A). I'll be either going 25C, or 35P depending on my ability to obtain a TS(SCI). Feels good to get back into service in some capacity.

Anyone know of any specific detachments that may be better than others? I'm still lost in the sauce as to where I could drill as a 25C/35P. The recruiters are being vague.

B Co 2/19 is very close to me (I'm in the Metro Detroit area), but I do not believe they have support positions at that level.


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## Brill (Aug 1, 2019)

i was in your same boat: close to a SF Co but far from SPT Co. I occasionally drilled with the SF guys but majority of drills were with SPT guys.

One thing to keep in mind, the 35-series at Draper and Denver have access to National level SCIFs AND real-world missions. If you want to be a good MI soldier, Draper is the BEST location hands down because of their access to both systems AND professional full-time IC civilians who can teach, coach, and mentor.


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## busyworks (Aug 1, 2019)

I'm hoping for 35P, but my background isn't exactly spotless. Other than being most interested in that job, 35 series also have the travel allowance which would make cross country travel much easier for me in my current situation. 

That's some good Information that you wouldn't know....unless you already knew  Thanks! I'll shoot for one of those locations if I can land that gig.


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## Brill (Aug 1, 2019)

You’ll see when you get to Camp Williams.


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## DozerB (Aug 2, 2019)

lindy said:


> i was in your same boat: close to a SF Co but far from SPT Co. I occasionally drilled with the SF guys but majority of drills were with SPT guys.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, the 35-series at Draper and Denver have access to National level SCIFs AND real-world missions. If you want to be a good MI soldier, Draper is the BEST location hands down because of their access to both systems AND professional full-time IC civilians who can teach, coach, and mentor.



Me: "My options are Lejeune or Quantico. Wow, how am I going to pick!"

You: "There is a job where you can do real-world operations FROM DENVER."

Me: ……… *soft sobs*


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## Devildoc (Aug 2, 2019)

DozerB said:


> Me: "My options are Lejeune or Quantico. Wow, how am I going to pick!"
> 
> You: "There is a job where you can do real-world operations FROM DENVER."
> 
> Me: ……… *soft sobs*



Hey, I grew up on Lejeune.  Then when I was in, I was stationed there as well.  So much for "join the Navy, see the world".


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## Brill (Aug 2, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> Hey, I grew up on Lejeune.  Then when I was in, I was stationed there as well.



Did ya drink the water?


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## Devildoc (Aug 2, 2019)

lindy said:


> Did ya drink the water?



Yes, and a lot of it.  I didn't sign up for the registry but my older sister did....


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## Brill (Aug 2, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> Yes, and a lot of it.  I didn't sign up for the registry but my older sister did....



THAT explains your misguided love for Duke.


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## busyworks (Aug 3, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> Hey, I grew up on Lejeune.  Then when I was in, I was stationed there as well.  So much for "join the Navy, see the world".


Ah, ye olde Lejuene. I will say though......be glad you weren't stationed at Cherry Point.


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## Devildoc (Aug 3, 2019)

lindy said:


> THAT explains your misguided love for Duke.



I will not stoop so low to dignify that comment with a response

😉

@busyworks , I did two 2-week ATs at Cherry Point when I was in the reserves, once as a corpsman assigned to Pedro with VMH-1, which I loved, and the second after I got my commission I was assigned to the hospital, which I hated. Hated. Hated.  And who the freak puts a BOQ less than a quarter mile from the end of the runway??


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## busyworks (Aug 8, 2019)

Devildoc said:


> I will not stoop so low to dignify that comment with a response
> 
> 😉
> 
> @busyworks , I did two 2-week ATs at Cherry Point when I was in the reserves, once as a corpsman assigned to Pedro with VMH-1, which I loved, and the second after I got my commission I was assigned to the hospital, which I hated. Hated. Hated.  And who the freak puts a BOQ less than a quarter mile from the end of the runway??


Yep, Cherry Point is no bueno. Harriers are always right overhead and loud as fuck all the barracks were supposed to be condemned, there is barely anything on the base itself, and there's nothing going on in the immediate area. Luckily I spent most of my time deployed or on workups. I'd go crazy sitting there for 3 years.


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## DozerB (Aug 9, 2019)

busyworks said:


> Yep, Cherry Point is no bueno. Harriers are always right overhead and loud as fuck all the barracks were supposed to be condemned, there is barely anything on the base itself, and there's nothing going on in the immediate area. Luckily I spent most of my time deployed or on workups. I'd go crazy sitting there for 3 years.



Downtown New Bern ain't bad, though.


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## busyworks (Aug 9, 2019)

DozerB said:


> Downtown New Bern ain't bad, though.


El Taco Loco in New Bern was so good!


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## BloodStripe (Aug 16, 2019)

DozerB said:


> Me: "My options are Lejeune or Quantico. Wow, how am I going to pick!"
> 
> You: "There is a job where you can do real-world operations FROM DENVER."
> 
> Me: ……… *soft sobs*



There are tons of reserve opportunities in the SOF community for the Navy  (maybe even Marine Corps) in Virginia if that's where you are limited to.


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## John.warren (Oct 21, 2019)

Does anyone have the 19thSFG  MICO contact info ?


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## busyworks (Feb 20, 2020)

Just a little update for everyone. Went through MEPS in Utah, got everything approved, but they weren't willing to sign me as 35 series due to a lesser version of a DUI from 4 years ago. I was not willing to commute to Utah from MI without the travel reimbursement that 35/18 series qualify for.

Got in contact with some of the other support detachments, but there were no openings for any of my desired MOS' at the time. I took another contract in the meantime, and am currently sitting in Afghanistan.

Recently the unit contact/recruiter for a support detachment in FL reached out to me. He said that they have both 25C, and 35N open. He's their training NCO, and said that he could get me multiple schools if I was physically capable of passing them.

I'm considering taking the 35N slot, but I am hesitant because I know that they also could be assigned to a SOT-B, or some other position locked up in a SCIF. I am also worried about progression. Are 35Ns more likely to be forced into a staff position earlier on than their 35P counterparts? I am also having a hard time understanding the differences between the two jobs outside of the language capabilities that 35Ps have. Seems like they are almost interchangeable outside of that, but I am not in the know.

Just wondering if any of you SIGINT types could chime in for the benefit of myself, and others. Does anyone know how 20th group is currently using their 35Ns? I just want to make sure that that this guy isn't blowing smoke up my ass to get my to join up with them.

I got 3-4 months to wait for other slots to open up, but may leave early to take this position if it's worth it.

Edit: forgot to mention that the recruiter told me I'd be on a SOT-A if I joined with them as an N.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

busyworks said:


> Recently the unit contact/recruiter for a support detachment in FL reached out to me. He said that they have both 25C, and 35N open. He's their training NCO, and said that he could get me multiple schools if I was physically capable of passing them.
> 
> I'm considering taking the 35N slot, but I am hesitant because I know that they also could be assigned to a SOT-B, or some other position locked up in a SCIF. I am also worried about progression. Are 35Ns more likely to be forced into a staff position earlier on than their 35P counterparts? I am also having a hard time understanding the differences between the two jobs outside of the language capabilities that 35Ps have. Seems like they are almost interchangeable outside of that, but I am not in the know.
> 
> Just wondering if any of you SIGINT types could chime in for the benefit of myself, and others. Does anyone know how 20th group is currently using their 35Ns?



Be wary of the schools: yes, you would be eligible as a P or N for everything (including many 18-series and 25-series schools) but money is tight and it’s really going to get worse very soon.

35Ns in Group ARE the SOT-B at BN-level: there’s nothing else for them to do.  You can make it to E-7 ( pending open slot) but to get 8, you’d have to cross-train to 35F to get the MID NCOIC slot (there’s only one per Support Co). In Big Army, Ps & Ns are interchangeably used ‘cept when the job requires foreign language proficiency. In Guard SF, Ns are typically in SCIFs and Ps are with ODAs.

If you want to do intel, you’ll be inside unless you’re on a SOT-A but if you want to be out and about, SFAS is the best path.


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## busyworks (Feb 20, 2020)

Yea, that's what I figured. I feel like he's trying to sell me on N as if I would be doing P things.

I forgot to say this in my last post, but he told me that I would be on a SOT-A if I joint as an N with them.

I understand that all MI gigs will have you in the SCIF to some extent, but I'd rather wait for 35P. Just wanted to verify my suspicions. May take them up on that "try one" contract and attend SFRE/SFAS if nothing opens up by the time I get back.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

busyworks said:


> May take them up on that "try one" contract and attend SFRE if nothing opens up by the time I get back.


 
Exactly what I did: got P then SFRE and back to P. Did 6 “try one” extensions.


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## busyworks (Feb 20, 2020)

Got 3-4 months on contract so we'll see. That might be my best option.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

busyworks said:


> Got 3-4 months on contract so we'll see. That might be my best option.



Give peace a chance!


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## Winter_Patriot (Feb 20, 2020)

I went through MEPS at Salt Lake City back in December. I was supposed to go 35F, but that spot disappeared, so I opted for 35N instead. I asked if there were any 35P or SOT-A spots but didn't get a clear answer about availability. Enlisting next Friday.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

Winter_Patriot said:


> I went through MEPS at Salt Lake City back in December. I was supposed to go 35F, but that spot disappeared, so I opted for 35N instead. I asked if there were any 35P or SOT-A spots but didn't get a clear answer about availability. Enlisting next Friday.



I‘ll ask around.


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## Winter_Patriot (Feb 20, 2020)

Honestly I dont think I can commit to DLI, so 35N is fine for me. 

Thought maybe it would help the OP to know that it's a little unclear for other applicants too. I heard that 35F, 35M, 35N, 35G were likely open as of last week.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

For folks interested in SF support, don’t discount KYARNG! They have “overflow” billets for all 3 SF BNs in 20th Group in the MI Det and Commo section for sure.

MID, 2/20th in MSARNG had 12 35P billets, 3-4 35N billets and KYARNG had the EXACT same because when mobilized, the SPT Co in Jackson was NEVER fully manned with qualified MOS holders, so they needed guys from KY.  It’s the same for all 1st & 3rd BNs.

Airborne Support Positions | Army National Guard Special Forces

Best thing about KYARNG...there aren’t any SF companies competing for training dollars! USASOC and INSCOM funds are actually allocated to and spent by MI soldiers!!!!


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## busyworks (Feb 20, 2020)

lindy said:


> For folks interested in SF support, don’t discount KYARNG! They have “overflow” billets for all 3 SF BNs in 20th Group in the MI Det and Commo section for sure.
> 
> MID, 2/20th in MSARNG had 12 35P billets, 3-4 35N billets and KYARNG had the EXACT same because when mobilized, the SPT Co in Jackson was NEVER fully manned with qualified MOS holders, so they needed guys from KY.  It’s the same for all 1st & 3rd BNs.
> 
> ...


More great advice for those not necessarily in the know! Thanks again.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 20, 2020)

Winter_Patriot said:


> I heard that 35F, 35M, 35N, 35G were likely open as of last week.


For the sake of consistency, please include ‘where’ you’ve heard this when you share info like this; important that we are passing legit intel and not hearsay or water cooler gossip.


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## Winter_Patriot (Feb 20, 2020)

Very helpful to know. 

Do the 35Ps/35Ns in KY/MS will have as many real-world tasks to work as those in Draper during drill weekends? I wasn't sure if it was related to the size/level of SCIF. Forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology or if I have a misunderstanding.


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## Winter_Patriot (Feb 20, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> For the sake of consistency, please include ‘where’ you’ve head this info when you share info like this; important that we are passing legit intel and not hearsay or water cooler gossip.


My mistake. One of the 19th SFG recruiters told me that last week. We were discussing other MOSs since my 35F slot wasn't available. He mentioned other spots that either were open at that time or would be open by the end of next month.


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## Brill (Feb 20, 2020)

Winter_Patriot said:


> Very helpful to know.
> 
> Do the 35Ps/35Ns in KY/MS will have as many real-world tasks to work as those in Draper during drill weekends? I wasn't sure if it was related to the size/level of SCIF. Forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology or if I have a misunderstanding.



No, only when deployed because they don’t have SCIFs (yet) and even then, it depends. A former teammate is OCONUS in a loc that only has SIPR. The only guys I know who are regularly working are 19th Group MI folks in Utah.


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## AWP (Feb 20, 2020)

Do not enlist as a 25C. You will hate your life. Low promotion potential and underutilized in the SIGDET and MIDET.


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## busyworks (Feb 20, 2020)

AWP said:


> Do not enlist as a 25C. You will hate your life. Low promotion potential and underutilized in the SIGDET and MIDET.


I feel like deployment/training potential would be very low as well. Doesn't help that they have a team guy that does your job.

Looking more and like I'm waiting for a 35P slot, or going for the "try one" dealio.


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## GOTWA (Feb 22, 2020)

lindy said:


> Exactly what I did: got P then SFRE and back to P. Did 6 “try one” extensions.


Nerd.


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## aspiring_polyglot (Apr 24, 2020)

lindy said:


> Be wary of the schools: yes, you would be eligible as a P or N for everything (including many 18-series and 25-series schools) but money is tight and it’s really going to get worse very soon.
> 
> 35Ns in Group ARE the SOT-B at BN-level: there’s nothing else for them to do.  You can make it to E-7 ( pending open slot) but to get 8, you’d have to cross-train to 35F to get the MID NCOIC slot (there’s only one per Support Co). In Big Army, Ps & Ns are interchangeably used ‘cept when the job requires foreign language proficiency. In Guard SF, Ns are typically in SCIFs and Ps are with ODAs.
> 
> If you want to do intel, you’ll be inside unless you’re on a SOT-A but if you want to be out and about, SFAS is the best path.



Thanks for all this info. Sorry if I'm hijacking here, but I've been having a tough time getting in touch with recruiters for any group/state. I am looking at the SOT-A route and will likely be DC based. Just to clarify, could a SOT-A (be him 35P or N) drill anywhere an ODA is? Or only at the states designated for support positions on this website? 

For example, for a DC based person, there is a unit of 20th SFG conveniently located in Glen Arm, MD and in Laurel, MD, but I think it is only ODAs there (not listed on the support website). Would the Maryland Guard enlist a SOT-A there or would I be looking at the nearest support-specific unit (appears to be West Virginia)? 

I guess my bottom line is, for someone working a civilian USG job in DC but wanting to be a SOT-A, which group/unit/detachment would be my best bet? And might someone on here have the contact info for that state, since my Facebook leads have mostly gone dead. 

Thanks again for the help. Cheers!


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## devilbones (Apr 28, 2020)

aspiring_polyglot said:


> I guess my bottom line is, for someone working a civilian USG job in DC but wanting to be a SOT-A, which group/unit/detachment would be my best bet?


What is your end goal here?  Are you already in the NG?  Would your civilian job allow you to be away for 11 months for training prior to a 6-9 month deployment?


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## aspiring_polyglot (Apr 28, 2020)

devilbones said:


> What is your end goal here?  Are you already in the NG?  Would your civilian job allow you to be away for 11 months for training prior to a 6-9 month deployment?



I am currently a civilian waiting to start a federal internship. I would be enlisting at the conclusion of my term doing that, so I would have to worry about my employer during basic/AIT (probably wouldn't be going to DLI because I have several languages at the 2/2/2 level, will have the clearance already, so a relatively shorter training pipeline). After graduating, my plan would be to chase orders for a year or two (not maintaining a full time civ job, essentially being a guard bum), gain experience in the SOT-A role, and then go back to doing full time civilian fed work in DC. I know this would curtail my ability to be an active guardsman. I also know that it is a serious balancing act. That said, I have heard federal jobs are more flexible about the Guard. 

*My end goal* is pretty simple and a little vague: to have a fruitful and robust tenure in the Guard as a SOT-A. I think this will give me the chance to serve in two different ways that complement each other, working on both the tactical and strategic side of things, learning about security issues from both the ground perspective and from Washington, etc... At some point after my contract is up I plan on getting an advanced degree and working in policy.   

Depending on how my initial years in the Guard go, I am not ruling out going to selection if my command allowed it or otherwise encouraged me to. I would also consider re-upping and going active duty if there were certain unnamed special opportunities available that combined my civilian and military skillsets. Both of these things are *well *beyond my initial goals and I want to be very clear that the SOT-A route is absolutely *not *a stepping stone for me. I won't pretend they aren't on my radar, but I am really just excited about doing the SOT-A role for the sake of being a good SOT-A and supporting the ODAs. 

Sorry for the wall of text, I hope this clarifies things a little more. 

*TL;DR 
civilian internship finishes, join up as SOT-A in Guard, shorter IET since no DLI, Guard Bum for a year or two, then go back to civilian fed work. From there my plan could branch off in several directions, especially at the end of my hypothetical contract. *


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## 0699 (Apr 29, 2020)

aspiring_polyglot said:


> I am currently a civilian waiting to start a federal internship. I would be enlisting at the conclusion of my term doing that, so I would have to worry about my employer during basic/AIT (*probably wouldn't be going to DLI because I have several languages at the 2/2/2 level, will have the clearance already, so a relatively shorter training pipeline*). After graduating, my plan would be to chase orders for a year or two (not maintaining a full time civ job, essentially being a guard bum), gain experience in the SOT-A role, and then go back to doing full time civilian fed work in DC. I know this would curtail my ability to be an active guardsman. I also know that it is a serious balancing act. That said, I have heard federal jobs are more flexible about the Guard.


Were you told that you wouldn't have to go to DLI or is this an assumption?

Clearances aren't necessarily the same agency to agency, so I would recommend not assuming that having a clearance from XYZ would be taken as is by agency ABC.  There are processes for transferring clearances, but they aren't automatic for every agency.

Lastly, think very carefully about being a civilian fed and a "guard bum".  While there are legal provisions about serving in the military and working as a GS simultaneously, they don't always make a difference on the street.  If you are a GS employee, and you leave for a two week training, or a six month deployment, the guys in your office have to do all your work for you.  If you have ongoing cases, they can't just sit at the AUSA until you return.  If you have ongoing projects, someone will have to run them in your absence and probably won't be to eager to give them up when you return.  Just saying.


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## GOTWA (Apr 29, 2020)

I was an expert Guard bum until I got a real job. You can't be a wonderful employee and have anything more than a part-time commitment to the Guard at the same time. While there are laws in place to protect you, punishments come in subtle forms and it's very difficult to prove. People will hold it against you, supervisors and co-workers alike.

I think @Ooh-Rah said it awhile back, military friendly employers absolutely hate hiring part-time military. Your selfless service doesn't help their bottom line.

I work for a pretty prestigious organization in Southern California. My direct supervisor told myself and a colleague he was unable to give us more responsibility on the team. He stated "you're both in the military and can deploy at anytime, leaving a gap in coverage." So, my colleague found a higher paying job elsewhere, I jumped on a year long deployment, and my coworker will likely quit when I return and put in my two weeks. Take that, boss.

I tell you that so you can manage your expectations. This is just my experience, but I know others experience it as well. IMO, your current plan isn't practical if you want to succeed and thrive in both careers.


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## aspiring_polyglot (Apr 29, 2020)

0699 said:


> Were you told that you wouldn't have to go to DLI or is this an assumption?
> 
> Clearances aren't necessarily the same agency to agency, so I would recommend not assuming that having a clearance from XYZ would be taken as is by agency ABC.  There are processes for transferring clearances, but they aren't automatic for every agency.
> 
> Lastly, think very carefully about being a civilian fed and a "guard bum".  While there are legal provisions about serving in the military and working as a GS simultaneously, they don't always make a difference on the street.  If you are a GS employee, and you leave for a two week training, or a six month deployment, the guys in your office have to do all your work for you.  If you have ongoing cases, they can't just sit at the AUSA until you return.  If you have ongoing projects, someone will have to run them in your absence and probably won't be to eager to give them up when you return.  Just saying.






GOTWA said:


> I was an expert Guard bum until I got a real job. You can't be a wonderful employee and have anything more than a part-time commitment to the Guard at the same time. While there are laws in place to protect you, punishments come in subtle forms and it's very difficult to prove. People will hold it against you, supervisors and co-workers alike.
> 
> I think @Ooh-Rah said it awhile back, military friendly employers absolutely hate hiring part-time military. Your selfless service doesn't help their bottom line.
> 
> ...




Hello both. Thanks for responding. I really appreciate the info on civ-mil balance in the Guard.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, the guard bum period and the civilian federal job would be separate. I would plan on trying out the guard bum life for the first year or 18 months after graduating AIT. I want to do this first to contribute to the mission and learn the ropes but also to learn about Army life, the opportunities out there, and if going active is something I would consider later. After that, I would "ratchet down" the Guard life to regular "1 weekend - 2 weeks" levels and return to the federal space. I didn't mean to imply that I could be a guard bum and work a full time civilian job. I know that employers still make life tough and discriminate below the legal threshold, unfortunately.

My civilian career track is research/analysis oriented, if that helps. I will not be a federal LEO, though my field shares the whole "your work can't really wait a year cause people rely on it" thing. 

On clearances, the one I am waiting for is from a DoD organization. I don't know for sure if it would transfer but it seems possible/potentially likely.

As for DLI, I am certified 2+ ILR in a strategic language and continue to study actively. It is true that I have never taken the DLPT, though, so I can't be certain. If I didn't get a passing score, I would have absolutely no qualms attending DLI and would consider it a privilege.

So the bottom line is, while I cannot thrive both as a Guard bum and DoD civilian at the same time, I at least want to give the guard bum thing a shot before I reenter the civilian workforce. I confess all of this assumes a very rudimentary and outsider's understanding of how guard bumming actually works. I don't know for sure if I would be able to pick up orders 10+ months out of the year, but some of the SOT-A threads I've read indicate yes. 

Let me know if you have further ideas. Have you found yourself adjusting your level of Guard commitment beyond the 1 weekend 2 weeks level depending on where you are at in civilian life? Or do you need to choose guard bum vs. part timer and stick with it all the way through?


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## Cookie_ (Apr 29, 2020)

aspiring_polyglot said:


> POST



I encourage you to check out this thread, specifically the responses from @x SF med and @Steve1839
While they're replying to a poster who was asking about trying to do the "guard bum" thing as a Green Bean, it's still applicable advice.

The only way to be a "bum" is to be excellent at your job, or a liability to the regular operations of your team. I'll give you a guess as to which one your team will think you are when you're brand new.


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## 0699 (Apr 29, 2020)

aspiring_polyglot said:


> *Sorry, I wasn't clear*, the guard bum period and the civilian federal job would be separate. I would plan on trying out the guard bum life for the first year or 18 months after graduating AIT. I want to do this first to contribute to the mission and learn the ropes but also to learn about Army life, the opportunities out there, and if going active is something I would consider later. *After that, I would "ratchet down" the Guard life to regular "1 weekend - 2 weeks" levels and return to the federal space.* I didn't mean to imply that I could be a guard bum and work a full time civilian job. I know that employers still make life tough and discriminate below the legal threshold, unfortunately.


I'm sure any misunderstanding was on my end.  I am well known for poor reading comprehension.

Thank you for not telling us why we're all wrong and you're all right; giving advice here normally ends up with the new guy telling the guys that have been doing it for thirty years why they're wrong and he is right.

It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this, understand the obstacles in your way, and are ready to deal with them.  I wish you luck in your goals.

Please be careful with the idea that you can "ratchet down" to 1 weekend a month, two weeks a year; I saw a lot of NG guys in Iraq who had that plan too.

I have never been in the NG.  My experience is from the other side of the fence; watching federal co-workers poorly try to balance military service and federal service.  Based on what I've seen, no person can serve two masters and if you do, you end up serving both poorly.  Just my observation; not intended to hurt the feelings of anyone that reads this.  I'm sure there are exceptions and everyone thinks they are the exception, but your coworkers would probably say different.

Good luck.


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## AWP (Apr 29, 2020)

aspiring_polyglot said:


> Hello both. Thanks for responding. I really appreciate the info on civ-mil balance in the Guard.
> 
> Sorry, I wasn't clear, the guard bum period and the civilian federal job would be separate. I would plan on trying out the guard bum life for the first year or 18 months after graduating AIT. I want to do this first to contribute to the mission and learn the ropes but also to learn about Army life, the opportunities out there, and if going active is something I would consider later. After that, I would "ratchet down" the Guard life to regular "1 weekend - 2 weeks" levels and return to the federal space. I didn't mean to imply that I could be a guard bum and work a full time civilian job. I know that employers still make life tough and discriminate below the legal threshold, unfortunately.
> 
> ...



I don't think you're going to like this post, but I'm going to be candid, blunt even.

There is the likelihood that your co-workers will perceive that you are screwing them. Some managers will take dim view of your Guard participation. You need to be ready for this. As a Fed you are probebly in better shape than most, but never for a second rule out office politics.

I'm a former Guard guy. Employers will keep your job, but that doesn't mean there won't be retribution. Some organizations have zero problem with Guard members, others not so much. Every member of the Guard is rolling the dice that their civilian lives will be unaffected by their Guard commitment. I've worked with FAA and DEA bubbas and their experiences were mixed. The Federal system protects you, but a bad manager will not. Your co-workers will have to do your job and theirs when you are gone. Again, some are fine with this and others are not. It will depend on the organization.

I'm not saying "don't go Guard" but I think you need to go into this with your eyes open. Every member of the Guard needs to understand that there are perils in choosing that path. For every success story there are others where you pay a price. I've been on the losing side and it sucks.

Good luck.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 29, 2020)

GOTWA said:


> I think @Ooh-Rah said it awhile back, military friendly employers absolutely hate hiring part-time military. Your selfless service doesn't help their bottom line


Yep.  I posted this in another thread some time ago.  It still stands:

_I am an employer. It is good PR for employers to celebrate how much they love their "Guard" employees....uh-huh.

Most employers (meaning all if they are being truly honest) f'ing HATE dealing with Guard employees. They are gone at inconvenient times, use "Guard duties" as an excuse for just about everything, and if you get deployed....yes I have to hold a job for you. But I don't have to hold the 'exact same' job for you....I just cannot fuck with your pay.

I say all that to say this....dive headfirst into whatever role you get in the Army. Be the absolute greatest at it and try to find balance with what civilian job you get; just don't expect them to "thank you for your service" every weekend of the month that you are gone.

#Reality._


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## Arf (Apr 30, 2020)

What do you guys think about contracting while NG as SF?


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## Kraut783 (Apr 30, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> _Most employers (meaning all if they are being truly honest) f'ing HATE dealing with Guard employees. They are gone at inconvenient times, use "Guard duties" as an excuse for just about everything, and if you get deployed....yes I have to hold a job for you. But I don't have to hold the 'exact same' job for you....I just cannot fuck with your pay.
> 
> #Reality._



Not just NG, Reserves too....


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## AWP (Apr 30, 2020)

Arf said:


> What do you guys think about contracting while NG as SF?



Depends on the unit. I've been out for...well, ever, but know guys who were able to do both. I'm sure several large factors come into play. Even an Air Guard radio troop has to jump through some hoops to contract with us for a year at a time. I can't speak to any details beyond that.


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## Cookie_ (May 1, 2020)

Arf said:


> What do you guys think about contracting while NG as SF?


I'm not a contractor, but speaking for guys who are; it's hard as shit. Asserting yourself as good for promotion after a 3-12 month deployment Is hard as hell; imagine the difficulty when that happens every year. (Abouts)


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## SierraWave (May 1, 2020)

My general impression has been that the best civilian careers to mix with Guard/Reserve bumming are seasonal/freelance gigs that have a lot of built-in flexibility and can be picked up and put down with less long-term consequences. Also, having a spouse with a stable job helps, too. I know a reservist who ski patrols and river guides and fills in her shoulder season with TDY/MPA tours. However she's definitely not making that sweet contractor pay, and she doesn't have the stability of a year-round GS position.


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## busyworks (Aug 12, 2020)

A little update. Just got back from a security contract in Afghanistan. Was made aware that about 6 months ago the Army came out with a new policy that if you've been out of service for 5 years, you have to go to basic again.

Now I'm scrambling to get in touch with basically anyone to see who still has openings on the support side, and can get me in before Sep 21st.

I definitely got a little out of shape sitting in a gun truck on QRF for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, with no gym/outdoor PT due to covid. Soooo now I'm scrambling to bust my ass back in shape too.

However I think this is good for me. As you all know, I've been super indecisive, and a huge procrastinator when it came to picking something and just going with it. Now I don't have a choice. 🤣

Contracting is definitely being put on the back burner for now. Thanks again for all the info guys!


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 12, 2020)

busyworks said:


> if you've been out of service for 5 years, you have to go to basic again.


Enjoy being a squad leader from day 1!  😆


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## busyworks (Aug 12, 2020)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Enjoy being a squad leader from day 1!  😆


Dear lord, I hope I can squeeze in somewhere before the 21st. I'm almost 30. Not trying to deal with that b.s. again 

Damn contracting money, making me lose my way.

on that note, I swear that 20th, or 19th had support positions near my home state of MI. It was either OH, or IL. I talked to a recruiter, and everything. They didn't have 35P at the time, but he told me to get in touch at a later date. I can't find his info anywhere though. 

anyone got an current info on support slot availability for either group? Trying to reach out to all the recruiters I can find info on.


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