# Barcelona Van Attack



## Blizzard (Aug 17, 2017)

Barcelona crash: Van ploughs into people in Las Ramblas | Daily Mail Online


> At least 13 people have been killed and dozens injured after a van in Barcelona ploughed into pedestrians before two men entered a restaurant with guns.
> 
> Pictures and video emerging from the scene show armed police and paramedics rushing to Las Ramblas, a busy tree-lined promenade in the centre of the city.
> 
> ...


Vehicles are quickly becoming the weapon of choice.

If you've never been there, Las Ramblas is very long (over a mile) pedestrian mall and very popular with tourists; it's a huge shopping/retail district.  Ease of access to vehicles, high element of surprise, and high number of pedestrians would make an attack like this very difficult to defend against.


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## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2017)

RIP.  

Europe truly is at war.


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## Gunz (Aug 17, 2017)

Jesus. 

At a glance it looks like Barcelona first responders had their act together.


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## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> Jesus.
> 
> At a glance it looks like Barcelona first responders had their act together.



3 of the victims are local law enforcement, I'm sure they are at the top of their game.


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## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2017)

Suspect down.

http://nyp.st/2vNb6xU


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## Poccington (Aug 17, 2017)

RackMaster said:


> 3 of the victims are local law enforcement, I'm sure they are at the top of their game.



After years of planning to respond to ETA attacks, I guess they've got a pretty good setup.

Thank fuck.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 17, 2017)

RackMaster said:


> RIP.
> 
> Europe truly is at war.



Yep.

Second attack now....

BREAKING: Four suspects dead as police foil ANOTHER terror plot miles from Barcelona

Barcelona attack: ‘Moroccan’ man who rented van identified | Daily Mail Online


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## Kraut783 (Aug 17, 2017)

Damn....burn in Hell boys


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## RackMaster (Aug 17, 2017)

It's long since past Europe accepting they're an active insurgency.


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## policemedic (Aug 17, 2017)

Blizzard said:


> Barcelona crash: Van ploughs into people in Las Ramblas | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Vehicles are quickly becoming the weapon of choice.
> 
> If you've never been there, Las Ramblas is very long (over a mile) pedestrian mall and very popular with tourists; it's a huge shopping/retail district.  Ease of access to vehicles, high element of surprise, and high number of pedestrians would make an attack like this very difficult to defend against.



It's easy to defend against.  People are just too short-sighted and cheap to do it.


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## Blizzard (Aug 18, 2017)

policemedic said:


> It's easy to defend against.  People are just too short-sighted and cheap to do it.


OK, I'll bite since I must be in one or both of those latter groups.  How is this type of attack easy to defend against?


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## policemedic (Aug 18, 2017)

Bollards, decorative heavy planters....you get the picture.  In fact, these are commonly used architectural design features in many places for specifically this purpose.  But these require money and a bit of threat assessment and stratification.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 18, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Bollards, decorative heavy planters....you get the picture.  In fact, these are commonly used architectural design features in many places for specifically this purpose.  But these require money and a bit of threat assessment and stratification.



Those big red ball you see in front of most Target store are not there just for decoration.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 18, 2017)

Daily Mail does a pretty detailed breakdown of both attacks.

Barcelona attack: Police kill five jihadis in Cambrils | Daily Mail Online


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## CQB (Aug 18, 2017)

So the attack looks to have succeeded and as acknowledge, it is very difficult to mitigate against this type of attack. In the broader context there was a gas explosion nearby  the day before which it is believed was linked to the van attack, killing one woman and wounding a man. There was also another attack by a small group at Cambrils on the same day, a nearby town which was snuffed out, with the local security guys killing five. Current thinking believes that these were co-ordinated; so the success rate is 33.33%.


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## Blizzard (Aug 18, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Bollards, decorative heavy planters....you get the picture.  In fact, these are commonly used architectural design features in many places for specifically this purpose.  But these require money and a bit of threat assessment and stratification.


I hear you and agree that quality bollards, concrete barriers, etc. are helpful but I think they only go so far.  This is still a challenge especially for established, and/or historic areas where available space may be an issue.  As you point out, costs can be significant and there will always be a question of aesthetic (even if there shouldn't be).  This is not a trivial undertaking in European cities and urban areas with established infrastructure and buildings.

The real challenge is that _any_ area where people congregate is a potential target...tough to put bollards, barriers, tress, etc. around them all.  A vehicle only needs 6 - 8 ft to travel through.  Pedestrian malls, outdoor cafes, and large spaces that put vehicles and pedestrians in close proximity will always be at risk.   But risks can also be a rally, parade, or as we've seen even the exit/crossing the street to and from large venues like a stadium, concerts, etc.


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## Gunz (Aug 18, 2017)

Blizzard said:


> ...The real challenge is that _any_ area where people congregate is a potential target...



There it is.

The real big events--the Olympics, the World Cup, The Super Bowl, Times Square on New Year's Eve, etc--those get plenty of security pre-planning. The pens, the barricades, the checkpoints and the personnel are there.

It's the thousands of other events or venues that draw big crowds that are the challenge.


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## policemedic (Aug 18, 2017)

Blizzard said:


> This is not a trivial undertaking in European cities and urban areas with established infrastructure and buildings.
> 
> The real challenge is that _any_ area where people congregate is a potential target...tough to put bollards, barriers, tress, etc. around them all.  A vehicle only needs 6 - 8 ft to travel through.  Pedestrian malls, outdoor cafes, and large spaces that put vehicles and pedestrians in close proximity will always be at risk.   But risks can also be a rally, parade, or as we've seen even the exit/crossing the street to and from large venues like a stadium, concerts, etc.



With all due respect to our brothers and sisters across the pond, Europe isn't my primary concern.  

I agree that places where large numbers of people congregate will remain targets.  However, knowing that allows us to stratify the risk and plan for the best use of public and private dollars to mitigate against predictable threats.  You aren't going to see decorative vehicle barriers everywhere, but it is possible to place them strategically.

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you get merchants associations and special services districts engaged as partners.



Ocoka said:


> There it is.
> 
> The real big events--the Olympics, the World Cup, The Super Bowl, Times Square on New Year's Eve, etc--those get plenty of security pre-planning. The pens, the barricades, the checkpoints and the personnel are there.
> 
> It's the thousands of other events or venues that draw big crowds that are the challenge.



You'll never be able to prevent every attack, although that should certainly be the goal.  What we in local and state LE have to do is work with our federal partners to engage with municipalities and venues that we've identified as at risk for particular kinds of attacks and assist them in planning to harden them.


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