# SF Surgical Teams



## ChaseZ33 (Feb 2, 2018)

Hey everyone, 

Was wondering if anyone could share some general information about special operations surgical teams i.e. Airforce SOST and other service equivalents. Currently a civilian Flight / Critical Care Nurse that is interested in the military either in the near future as a Nurse or farther down the road as a CRNA. Have a few prior SF friends and like the idea of directly supporting that mission. 

Physical requirements?
What does the pipeline consist of? 
How long do most people spend in regular FSTs before moving up to SF? 

Any info would be appreciated.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 2, 2018)

Special Operations Surgical Teams

You have probably found this, but wanted to post it just in case. Upper right hand corner has some contact info.

Here is an application for them....with some info

http://www.24sow.af.mil/Portals/80/Documents/SOST application/SOST App v5 5 Jan 2018.pdf?ver=2018-01-05-151724-840


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## ChaseZ33 (Feb 2, 2018)

Thanks. I have looked over it a few times. Has some good info but was looking for some more first hand or detail info.


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## CDG (Feb 4, 2018)

We have at least one SOST member here, but he hasn't been around in awhile.


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## DA SWO (Feb 4, 2018)

IIRC you can't go from the civilian world to SOST.
You'll have to prove yourself then apply.


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## SOSTCRNA (Feb 4, 2018)

I am a CRNA and recently retired SOST and JMAU (JSOC) team member, 4 and 7 years respectively.   Both teams have pipelines that constantly evolve and get harder and more selection, like if that makes sense.  In SOST you can be a member as a Critical Care/ER RN but for JMAU it's CRNAs only.  It is desirable to have a deployment with a "regular" unit before applying.

If you are thinking about CRNA school, do yourself a favor and consider the DOD programs.  They are excellent schools and you get a paycheck while training and a DNP upon graduation.

I don't post much but I'm always happy to help anyone who is interested in a military career as a CRNA and/or SOST/JMAU.  I absolutely loved my time with these units.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 4, 2018)

SOSTCRNA said:


> I am a CRNA and recently retired SOST and JMAU (JSOC) team member, 4 and 7 years respectively.   Both teams have pipelines that constantly evolve and get harder and more selection, like if that makes sense.  In SOST you can be a member as a Critical Care/ER RN but for JMAU it's CRNAs only.  It is desirable to have a deployment with a "regular" unit before applying.
> 
> If you are thinking about CRNA school, do yourself a favor and consider the DOD programs.  They are excellent schools and you get a paycheck while training and a DNP upon graduation.
> 
> I don't post much but I'm always happy to help anyone who is interested in a military career as a CRNA and/or SOST/JMAU.  I absolutely loved my time with these units.


Great post!  Thanks for sharing your experiences.


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## SaintKP (Feb 5, 2018)

SOSTCRNA said:


> I am a CRNA and recently retired SOST and JMAU (JSOC) team member, 4 and 7 years respectively.   Both teams have pipelines that constantly evolve and get harder and more selection, like if that makes sense.  In SOST you can be a member as a Critical Care/ER RN but for JMAU it's CRNAs only.  It is desirable to have a deployment with a "regular" unit before applying.
> 
> If you are thinking about CRNA school, do yourself a favor and consider the DOD programs.  They are excellent schools and you get a paycheck while training and a DNP upon graduation.
> 
> I don't post much but I'm always happy to help anyone who is interested in a military career as a CRNA and/or SOST/JMAU.  I absolutely loved my time with these units.



Mind if I send you a PM sir?


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## SOSTCRNA (Feb 5, 2018)

SaintKP said:


> Mind if I send you a PM sir?



Please do. I forgot to say that in my post.


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## SPAK (Mar 30, 2018)

I’m new to the forums here but happy to help answer any questions that I can. Feel free to send me a pm as well.


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## DC (Mar 30, 2018)

My DMO gave me this.


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## ChaseZ33 (Mar 30, 2018)

Thank you for the posts. I may PM with specific questions later.

The Army's CRNA program is definitely a consideration. 

From my understanding most of these units are inter-branch so does it necessarily matter if I go AF vs Army? If i need a deployment prior to enrolling does Army have more FST opportunities? 

I totally understand putting in time and getting experience however I was curious since the SOST application talks briefly about civilian applicants.


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## SPAK (Mar 30, 2018)

We have taken civilians in the past. There are definitely some hurdles to overcome.

While very similar, there are some differences between the Air Force and the Army teams. One or the other may suit your desires/personality better than the other.


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## SOSTCRNA (Mar 31, 2018)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Thank you for the posts. I may PM with specific questions later.
> 
> The Army's CRNA program is definitely a consideration.
> 
> ...



SPAK may have more up to date info about SOST but to my knowledge only one surgical team is inter-branch and that is the one at Bragg.


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## SPAK (Mar 31, 2018)

That is correct information. SOST has folks who came in from Army and Navy but it requires crossing over currently.


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## ChaseZ33 (Apr 3, 2018)

So if the Civilian directly to SOST option is unlikely what would my best option be for enlistment / deployment prior?  CCATT? Does the AF have non-SF FSTs? All I could find was Army.  The 59th MDW ECMO team interests me however  that may not be relevant to SOST. 

Most of the info about SOST seems to be related to the 24th at Bragg


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## SOSTCRNA (Apr 3, 2018)

Easiest thing to do is join and start volunteering for every deployment and training opportunity you can find.  Bug your Readiness Office every week.  Make sure your chain of command and your coworkers know you want to deploy, there is always someone trying to give up a slot, you will get a deployment   

I would be careful signing up for specialties like CCATT or ECMO, once they get you trained they may not let you go.


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## SPAK (Apr 4, 2018)

It isn’t impossible but it isn’t straight forward either. If you’re really interested send me a pm and we can talk.

Having deployment history is a plus, military experience also a plus. What we’re looking for is the right fit for the teams.

Air Force and army both have surgical teams that are non SF. However, they’re mission, specific skill set and footprint are variable and somewhat different than SOST.

Current deployment opportunities in conventional AF for medical are changing and only time will tell exactly what they will look like. Just know  you will need to finish your initial commitment for time on station before you can join SOST.

Doing well at selection will be the main factor.


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## 46Sierra (Oct 6, 2018)

Hello all, was going to start a new post but this one hopefully is a good fit. Currently a 46S (OR RN) with fairly extensive experience in trauma and other complex surgeries (as a scrub and circulating RN). I've heard that even though my AFSC isn't listed on the SOST application that doesn't mean that it won't be considered. Is anyone able to verify this information? I'm not bored with surgery, I'm just looking to practice in an austere environment with other highly motivated and dedicated professionals. Any and all input is greatly appreciated!


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## SPAK (Oct 6, 2018)

As an RN SOST is looking more for ER/critical care background. Those skill sets are essential. Would recommend trying to get some ER or ICU experience, preferably both.


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## 46Sierra (Oct 6, 2018)

@SPAK thanks for your quick response!


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## SPAK (Oct 6, 2018)

No problem, send me a Pm and I can elaborate some more. I still have a few folks to respond to once I get back to a computer.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 6, 2018)

SPAK said:


> No problem, send me a Pm and I can elaborate some more. I still have a few folks to respond to once I get back to a computer.



If I may....

Part is what makes ShadowSpear “work” are the conversations between members that may be of interest (now or in the future) to other members. 

Obviously there are conversions that need to happen behind the veil of PM’s, but whenever possible everyone is encouraged to share their conversations so they others might benefit or chime in if within their lane.


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## SOSTCRNA (Oct 6, 2018)

I'd be interested to hear that SOST is taking Or RNs instead of ER/CC RNs.  Not sure what their function would be.


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## SPAK (Oct 6, 2018)

Currently we have no OR nurses on the teams. As far as I know we are only recruiting RN’s with ER/ICU experience preferably both.


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## AWP (Oct 6, 2018)

SOF medicine kind of went from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye here. The knowledge transfer is great to see.


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## SOSTCRNA (Oct 7, 2018)

SPAK said:


> Currently we have no OR nurses on the teams. As far as I know we are only recruiting RN’s with ER/ICU experience preferably both.



That makes more sense.


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## 2/75RangerSRNA (Jan 26, 2019)

SOSTCRNA said:


> I am a CRNA and recently retired SOST and JMAU (JSOC) team member, 4 and 7 years respectively.   Both teams have pipelines that constantly evolve and get harder and more selection, like if that makes sense.  In SOST you can be a member as a Critical Care/ER RN but for JMAU it's CRNAs only.  It is desirable to have a deployment with a "regular" unit before applying.
> 
> If you are thinking about CRNA school, do yourself a favor and consider the DOD programs.  They are excellent schools and you get a paycheck while training and a DNP upon graduation.
> 
> I don't post much but I'm always happy to help anyone who is interested in a military career as a CRNA and/or SOST/JMAU.  I absolutely loved my time with these units.



Thank you for your service! I am a former Army Ranger with four deployments as an infantry teamleader, and now current SRNA. Quick question... What is the likelihood/pathway for getting back to a forward special operations environment, only to provide anesthesia this time? I am also curious about pay as compared to civilian pursuits, though I imagine you would prefer that information private and do I can PM you if need be. I again thank you, kindly, for your service.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 26, 2019)

@2/75RangerSRNA

Per site rules your next post needs to be an Intro post.  It should have been your first post.
Intro Posts

If you are going to keep that user name, you will need to be vetted.  Please let me or any other red-tagged staff member know if you have any questions.
Vetting Information1
Vetting Information2


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## 2/75RangerSRNA (Jan 26, 2019)

I’m a former Ranger team leader from 2/75, now SRNA


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 26, 2019)

2/75RangerSRNA said:


> I’m a former Ranger team leader from 2/75, now SRNA


@2/75RangerSRNA 

Please take a moment to orientate yourself with the forum.  

Your intro goes in the Intro area (see the link I provided in post #29).


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## SOSTCRNA (Jan 27, 2019)

2/75RangerSRNA said:


> Thank you for your service! I am a former Army Ranger with four deployments as an infantry teamleader, and now current SRNA. Quick question... What is the likelihood/pathway for getting back to a forward special operations environment, only to provide anesthesia this time? I am also curious about pay as compared to civilian pursuits, though I imagine you would prefer that information private and do I can PM you if need be. I again thank you, kindly, for your service.



2/75RangerSRNA

Welcome and thank you for YOUR service!  I am assuming you are in a civilian program so you would have to come back on active duty.  From there you would need some CRNA experience but you would be a great candidate for JMAU if you went army.  I had the privilege of supporting your former Regiment many times. SOST would also be an option if you joined the AF and there may be some opportunities through the Reserves also-if you can get a civilian CRNA job that will grant you the extra time away.  I think either unit would benefit having a CRNA with your background in their ranks.

As far as pay, you should get enough constructive credit as an RN to come in as an 03 or 02 with a year towards 03 at worst.   If you have 4 years and 1 day enlisted then you would come back in as an 02/03E which means you will be paid more.  Plus, of course, you will have the step raises for years of service.  Check the latest military pay scales to see where you would be.  I'm having a hard time finding the latest military CRNA compensation packages.  The max Special pay used to be $50,000 per year for a 4-year commitment but I saw an article somewhere talking about $250,000 over four years.  Plus you get board certified pay but I'm not sure of the exact amount as it was changing when I retired.  Also you get you BAS etc tax free and most importantly you get a lifetime pension when you retire. My wife and I are both CRNAs with pensions and I can tell you, it is very nice.   The military also provides a great practice environment for CRNAs

Civilian CRNA salaries average about $170,000/ year but vary greatly depending on location and practice environment, the nicer places pay less and the more rural, independent places pay much more.  You also have 1099 contracts with higher pay and no benefits vs W2 with benefits and usually lower salaries.  

You may be able to make a bit more as a civilian but the pay gap isn't terrible.  If you still have the urge to serve I don't think you could go wrong coming back onto active duty.  

Hope this helps.


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## 2/75RangerSRNA (Jan 28, 2019)

SOSTCRNA said:


> 2/75RangerSRNA
> 
> Welcome and thank you for YOUR service!  I am assuming you are in a civilian program so you would have to come back on active duty.  From there you would need some CRNA experience but you would be a great candidate for JMAU if you went army.  I had the privilege of supporting your former Regiment many times. SOST would also be an option if you joined the AF and there may be some opportunities through the Reserves also-if you can get a civilian CRNA job that will grant you the extra time away.  I think either unit would benefit having a CRNA with your background in their ranks.
> 
> ...



This was a very substantive reply, much more than I was expecting in fact. I do thank you very kindly for your time! This all raises legitimate considerations for me. Which is odd considering the mindset I was in during ETS and departure from Ranger Batt, I was  convinced that never in 1 million years would I reenter the service haha.  But truth be told, and as you know I’m sure from working with JSOC and all of it’s entities, there is a lot to miss.

Again I thank you, and I may be reaching out in the future for more information if you don’t mind. God bless-


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 28, 2019)

@2/75RangerSRNA 

Please check your PM's. (top right corner)


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## SOSTCRNA (Jan 29, 2019)

2/75RangerSRNA said:


> This was a very substantive reply, much more than I was expecting in fact. I do thank you very kindly for your time! This all raises legitimate considerations for me. Which is odd considering the mindset I was in during ETS and departure from Ranger Batt, I was  convinced that never in 1 million years would I reenter the service haha.  But truth be told, and as you know I’m sure from working with JSOC and all of it’s entities, there is a lot to miss.
> 
> Again I thank you, and I may be reaching out in the future for more information if you don’t mind. God bless-



I understand completely, when I finished my 4 years in the 82nd I was DONE but ended up coming back for another 21.  Please feel free to hit me up whenever and I'll help where I can.  Where are you going to school?


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## FIGSTER (Mar 1, 2019)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Was wondering if anyone could share some general information about special operations surgical teams i.e. Airforce SOST and other service equivalents. Currently a civilian Flight / Critical Care Nurse that is interested in the military either in the near future as a Nurse or farther down the road as a CRNA. Have a few prior SF friends and like the idea of directly supporting that mission.
> 
> ...


The basic physical requirement to be considered is to be able to do well (>90 pts) on the AF fitness assessment and be able to to swim 250m. The selection has recently gotten much more physically demanding and you can expect to be pushed to physical failure multiple times a day.


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## ChaseZ33 (Aug 8, 2019)

Currently in touch with AFSOC recruitment regarding the civillian to SOST route. Will report back.  Eligibility for rank may be an issue so also looking into Reserve and applying down the road


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## FIGSTER (Aug 8, 2019)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Currently in touch with AFSOC recruitment regarding the civillian to SOST route. Will report back.  Eligibility for rank may be an issue so also looking into Reserve and applying down the road


I'm currently in the SOST pipeline. One of the CRNAs with me was a civilian who commissioned after being selected. Would you like me to put you in contact with him?


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## ChaseZ33 (Aug 20, 2019)

Looks like I hit a road block. In order to apply for SOST selection you must be eligible for O-3. Currently with the maximum allowed constructive credit I would be an O-2. Apparently the maximum years allowed changes year to year but from the sound of it you can no longer get O-3 without a masters degree. 

So I guess my options are to complete a Masters degree and/or wait to see if it changes next year or go Reserve (maybe AD) and apply once I rank up.

Thank you everyone for all the information and help


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## FIGSTER (Aug 27, 2019)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Looks like I hit a road block. In order to apply for SOST selection you must be eligible for O-3. Currently with the maximum allowed constructive credit I would be an O-2. Apparently the maximum years allowed changes year to year but from the sound of it you can no longer get O-3 without a masters degree.
> 
> So I guess my options are to complete a Masters degree and/or wait to see if it changes next year or go Reserve (maybe AD) and apply once I rank up.
> 
> Thank you everyone for all the information and help



Who did you talk to? Someone with AFSOC?


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## nflesh97 (Oct 20, 2019)

Anyone on this thread have more first-hand info on the general surgery position on an sost? Is the selection more or less competitive than other specialties within the team? Currently an undergraduate student going into medical school next year that is interested in surgery and military medicine, specifically forward surgical teams like the SOST. Any insight would be appreciated!


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## FIGSTER (Oct 20, 2019)

The selection process is the same for everyone on the team. They are looking for traits such as leadership, followership, flexibility and grit. Surgeons are always needed but they don't change the bar due to need for any specialty.


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## nflesh97 (Oct 21, 2019)

Thanks for the quick reply! Your answer was helpful. Also, this may be a silly question because I am not military. But during the ten months of training that SOST members go through, would you be separate from your family like a deployment or would you just be stationed somewhere during that 10 months?


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## FIGSTER (Oct 21, 2019)

nflesh97 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply! Your answer was helpful. Also, this may be a silly question because I am not military. But during the ten months of training that SOST members go through, would you be separate from your family like a deployment or would you just be stationed somewhere during that 10 months?


It's not 10 months despite what some things say on the website. It's been consolidated to about 4 months. You travel around to various bases for training during that time. There are some short gaps in that time where you can travel home and see your family. That said, the training pipeline is constantly evolving.


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## nflesh97 (Oct 21, 2019)

Thanks for the info! Very helpful


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## Billmoney (Dec 7, 2019)

Very interesting topic, was not even aware there are such things that exist. Probably have to be in very good physical shape and be able to run miles at a time at an above average pace. Are there any PMHNPs that serve on these teams and what role do they serve?


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## SOSTCRNA (Dec 7, 2019)

Billmoney said:


> Very interesting topic, was not even aware there are such things that exist. Probably have to be in very good physical shape and be able to run miles at a time at an above average pace. Are there any PMHNPs that serve on these teams and what role do they serve?



If you mean Mental Health Nurse Practitioners then no, not on any surgical team I have ever heard of. Surgical/Resuscitation teams are for...resuscitation and or surgical intervention for battlefield trauma.


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## Siesta (May 7, 2020)

Not sure if this thread is still active.
I'm an Army Reserve CRNA in an FST. Recently returned from split ops in AFG.  I had a couple run ins with the JMAU SRT during high tempo trauma activations, things were so crazy when they arrived that I never really got the chance to chat with them but I was so impressed with their capabilities. I'd love the opportunity to audition for their team but I've had a difficult time nailing down communication channel to make this happen.  Could anyone point me int he right direction?


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## FIGSTER (May 7, 2020)

Siesta said:


> Not sure if this thread is still active.
> I'm an Army Reserve CRNA in an FST. Recently returned from split ops in AFG.  I had a couple run ins with the JMAU SRT during high tempo trauma activations, things were so crazy when they arrived that I never really got the chance to chat with them but I was so impressed with their capabilities. I'd love the opportunity to audition for their team but I've had a difficult time nailing down communication channel to make this happen.  Could anyone point me int he right direction?


My understanding is that one can only tryout for SRT if they are invited


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## SOSTCRNA (May 7, 2020)

FIGSTER said:


> My understanding is that one can only tryout for SRT if they are invited



That’s the way it used to be for sure.


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## SOSTCRNA (May 7, 2020)

Siesta said:


> Not sure if this thread is still active.
> I'm an Army Reserve CRNA in an FST. Recently returned from split ops in AFG.  I had a couple run ins with the JMAU SRT during high tempo trauma activations, things were so crazy when they arrived that I never really got the chance to chat with them but I was so impressed with their capabilities. I'd love the opportunity to audition for their team but I've had a difficult time nailing down communication channel to make this happen.  Could anyone point me int he right direction?



In the time I was in the only reservists we had were a few trauma surgeons. Lots of logistical issues with reservists that limit their use.


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