# Needed Advice



## Future_Leader (Nov 6, 2013)

First off, I apologize if this post is in the wrong spot. I will be 17 on the 10th of this month and the only thing I want to do to my birthday is go sign up. I've been wanting to join the military for one main thing: special forces. Everything those men stand for, everything they withstand, the sacrifices they make, the spirit they show, and most everything about them is admirable and I wish to be one of them and model myself after that kind of man and serve my country in the best way possible. I admit I've done said and done stupid things here on this site and in my life and I live with those regrets but I have used them to make me wiser and better. Kept my mouth shut for the last several months basically and done nothing but research. Now the thing I need advice with is deciding between the Marine Corps and the Army/National Guard. From what I have researched, what recruiters have told me, and from some personal accounts, the Guard would seem to be the best choice in terms of a college education, allowing me special forces opportunities (Rangers, CAG, etc...) and in terms of pay. Those things don't necessarily matter to me as I'm more about tradition and actually doing things that make more of a difference (not to say that none of these guys don't make a difference). So what I'd like is to know why some of you chose the Army/National Guard and why some of you chose the Corps and why some of you avoided the 2 altogether and chose a different branch. You can add statistics, pm me personal stories, or whatever you deem necessary. I'd also like direction as to what mentor program(s) would be best in helping me ,first off, pass boot camp and then begin advising me for special forces selection. Thank you for your time.


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## Lefty375 (Nov 6, 2013)

You should probably do *a lot* more research.


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## AWP (Nov 6, 2013)

Future_Leader said:


> From what I have researched, what recruiters have told me, and from some personal accounts, the Guard would seem to be the best choice in terms of a college education, allowing me Special Forces opportunities (Rangers, CAG, etc...) and in terms of pay.


 
Go Active or go Guard, but don't do what this sounds like...some in-between world where you use the Guard as a platform to go Active. It is generally frowned upon. Also, the whole "I went to college and was SF and...." line is great and all, but very difficult. Even pre-9/11 it was hard because you either did the Guard thing when they needed you to or you weaseled out of every activation and school because college was more important. You can't have it both ways.

Go Active, go Infantry or 13F, get an Opt. 40 contract, and SF will be there in a few years when you're ready.


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## x SF med (Nov 6, 2013)

Ok...  you are wholly uninformed about the 'advice' you want, and masking a request for somebody else to tell you what to do by blowing smoke up their asses- sorry we've seen all this many times in many forms, in the service and here.

This is not a request, this is an exercise in critical and analytical thinking - you will not post anything else on this board until you complete this assignment.

   Here is your assignment:
1. What is Special Forces, what branch, its missions and its capabilities.
2. What is the Marine Corps, its missions and capabilities.
3. What is the National Guard and why is the question you asked about the Marine Corps and Special Forces inane?
4. What is Ranger Battalion, its missions and capabilities.
5. Do not even mention the other unit you posted about - that is parsecs away from your starting point.
6. Why is it very unlikely at the moment that you would not get a direct contract into Special Forces?
7. What do you have to offer any branch of service at the moment besides a desire to be a 'cool guy'.
8. Why do video games not prepare you for the realities of the military or more specifically Special Operations of any kind?

This is your assignment - it should be well researched, cogently structured and use good grammar, punctuation spelling and paragraphs.

We'll discuss any mentor programs, or directions about how to prepare for joining the military after  you complete the task.  (Hint, if you researched just here on the site, you would not be getting this assignment.)


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## Future_Leader (Nov 6, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Ok...  you are wholly uninformed about the 'advice' you want, and masking a request for somebody else to tell you what to do by blowing smoke up their asses- sorry we've seen all this many times in many forms, in the service and here.
> 
> This is not a request, this is an exercise in critical and analytical thinking - you will not post anything else on this board until you complete this assignment.
> 
> ...


I'll get started on that. Should I pm you to turn it in?


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## x SF med (Nov 7, 2013)

Future_Leader said:


> I'll get started on that. Should I pm you to turn it in?


 
Post it right here in this thread.

ETA:   The supplemental post by Future Leader is for the Admin/Moderating staff to critique first, the remaining membership will be alerted if/when it is open for further commentary.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 8, 2013)

I have the answer to question #1 ready to go and I realized it is pretty long so it provoked this next question: Can I post the assignment in parts or would you prefer it all at once?


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2013)

Future_Leader said:


> I have the answer to question #1 ready to go and I realized it is pretty long so it provoked this next question: Can I post the assignment in parts or would you prefer it all at once?




post what you have.


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## Muppet (Nov 8, 2013)

Future Leader: Cherish this education you are about to receive. It will last you a long time if you do it correctly. Always learn. ALWAYS! No half assing anything.

F.M.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 8, 2013)

There is no one, direct definition of Special Operations Forces (SOF) due to the variety in the priorities, missions, capabilities, and training of each SOF. However, there are similarities among these different SOF which I will use as a general definition of SOF. I have researched multiple U.S. SOF including: the 75th Ranger regiment, Army SF (Green Berets), Navy SEAL teams, SWCC (Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewman), 1st and 2nd MSOB (Marine Special Operations Battalion), Pararescuemen (PJs), MSRT (Maritime Security Response Team), ISA, CIA SAD SOG, DEVGRU, and others. Upon studying these different SOF I would give SOF this general definition: highly trained and tactile force often conducting unconventional warfare, special reconnaissance, direct action (DA), and hostage/personnel recovery. 
I say highly trained because the training regiments of SOF are more more rigorous, demanding, and often much longer with higher risks of injury/death and higher washout rates than that of GPF. For instance, SEALs have a 70-75% washout rate from BUD/s alone and spend around 2 years training. You are also required to have a minimal of 170 on your ASVAB if doing GS+MC+EI. Green Berets have a washout rate of about 90 percent and you must have a GT (general technical) score minimum of 107 and a combat operation score of 98. In most SOF (with SEALs being the general exception) you must have prior military service before qualifying for selection. SOF units such as CIA SAD select only the best from units such as the SEALs, Green Berets, or Tier 1 units such as DEVGRU.
I say unconventional warfare meaning that their overall goal is to demoralize the opposition and make them quit through non violent means and, instead, go to the civilians and win their hearts and minds by training, equipping, and advising locals seeking to change their oppressive regimes. Unconventional warfare serves as the basis for SOF as their ultimate goal is to defeat the enemy using the least amount of resources and limiting the damage to themselves and others.
I say direct action (DA) meaning short duration strikes that are used when SOF want to seize, capture, recover or destroy enemy weapons and information or recover designated personnel or material. This is typical of SOF such as SEALs, DEVGRU, and Rangers. 
I say special reconnaissance (SR) meaning that they operate behind enemy lines avoiding direct combat and detection by the enemy. They often covertly direct air and missile attacks, place remotely monitored sensors and make preparations for other SOF. SR is the conduct of environmental recon, target acquisition, area assessment, post strike assessment, and support of HUMINT (human intelligence) and SIGINT (signal intelligence) operations. This is typical of the Intelligence Support Activity (ISA)
I believe hostage/personnel recovery or rescue is self explanatory. For the sake of including the branch part of question #1, I will use the Navy SEALs. SEALs are employed in unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense (or counter-insurgency), DA, Counter-Terrorism, and SR operations. The mission of the SEALs is to protect America by disarming or destroying her enemies from sea, air, or land.


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## pardus (Nov 8, 2013)

Good luck when the Troll find this...


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## SkrewzLoose (Nov 9, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Ok...  you are wholly uninformed about the 'advice' you want, and masking a request for somebody else to tell you what to do by blowing smoke up their asses- sorry we've seen all this many times in many forms, in the service and here.
> 
> This is not a request, this is an exercise in critical and analytical thinking - you will not post anything else on this board until you complete this assignment.
> 
> ...





Future_Leader said:


> I have the answer to question #1 ready to go and I realized it is pretty long so it provoked this next question: Can I post the assignment in parts or would you prefer it all at once?





Future_Leader said:


> There is no one, direct definition of *Special Operations Forces (SOF)* due to the variety in the priorities, missions, capabilities, and training of each *SOF*. However, there are similarities among these different *SOF* which I will use as a general definition of *SOF*. I have researched multiple U.S. *SOF* including: the 75th Ranger regiment, Army SF (Green Berets), Navy SEAL teams, SWCC (Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewman), 1st and 2nd MSOB (Marine Special Operations Battalion), Pararescuemen (PJs), MSRT (Maritime Security Response Team), ISA, CIA SAD SOG, DEVGRU, and others. Upon studying these different *SOF* I would give *SOF* this general definition: highly trained and tactile force often conducting unconventional warfare, special reconnaissance, direct action (DA), and hostage/personnel recovery.
> Etc, etc, etc...


I think you missed what the  Troll was asking...


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

Special Forces are part of the Army and are also known as Green Berets due to their distinctive headgear. They are tasked with 6 primary missions: unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, and counter terrorism. Unconventional warfare is said to be their most important role. They are divided into 5 active duty and 2 National Guard Special Forces Groups.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

The Marine Corps is responsible for providing power projection from the sea and provide combined armed task forces. Their role is primarily amphibious and expeditionary warfare and they are the DoD's expeditionary force in-readiness. They have many special operations capable units including Marine Special Operations Teams (MSOT) and Marine Recon.


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## pardus (Nov 9, 2013)

Copy and paste is NOT research.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

The National Guard are part of the reserve components for the U.S. Armed Forces. They are also known as members of the militia of the U.S. They are basically state militia and a reserve force. The question I asked about the Marine Corps and Special Forces was inane (stupid) for one of several or all the following reasons: the Marine Corps does offer its own special operations capable forces and a Marines Special Operations Regiment consisting of 3 battalions all made for special operations.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

pardus said:


> Copy and paste is NOT research.


I'll see about trying to word them in my own words.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

Future_Leader said:


> The National Guard are part of the reserve components for the U.S. Armed Forces. They are also known as members of the militia of the U.S. They are basically state militia and a reserve force. The question I asked about the Marine Corps and Special Forces was inane (stupid) for one of several or all the following reasons: the Marine Corps does offer its own special operations capable forces and a Marines Special Operations Regiment consisting of 3 battalions all made for special operations.


And technically Special Forces are part of the Army while the actual term for what I'm attempting to say is Special Operations Force.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

The Rangers, as I understand, are primarily a light infantry, rapid response group capable of conducting raids, infiltration (entering), exfiltration (exiting), and recovering personnel by use of helicopter, amphibious craft, HALO/HAHO jumps, and most any way by sea, air, and land. They are said to be able to deploy anywhere in the world within 18 hours.


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## goon175 (Nov 9, 2013)

Ok, your response was lacking in every way. We are now going to do what is called "professional development". Since you did not take the initiative with the original assignment you were issued by x SF Med, I'm going to add to it. DO NOT post a response until you can post a response that includes this completed assignment:

1. Scrap every thing you wrote above, it was complete crap.
2. Open a Word document (or something similar)
3. Type the responses to each of x SF med's questions in paragraph form, starting each paragraph with the question you are answering.
4. Cite the source of all of the information that you gather in an appendix at the end. 
5. Re-read your document no less than three times, checking it for both quality and grammar.
6. Do not address ANYTHING that does not have to do with the questions that were asked by x SF med (this includes all mention of non-military units and SMU's)
7. Do not type like you are talking to one of your buddies, type as if you are writing a research paper.
8. Do not take short cuts on this. It is not meant to be completed in 15 minutes.

This is not meant to bully you or hurt your feelings. IF you are as serious about your goals as you say you are, than you will do the research and put the effort in to do this. The ability to research is important, especially when it comes to making life decisions. Right now, you sound like a jack ass. By the end of this assignment, you should be relatively well read on the different options available to you. THEN, when you have questions, you can ask intelligent ones that the rest of us don't mind answering. Your initial post in this thread made me want to suck start a shotgun, it was that bad - especially given the treasure trove of information available on this website. 

Good luck, and don't disappoint!


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## goon175 (Nov 9, 2013)

Also, I moved the thread because this is not a "General Discussion".


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## x SF med (Nov 9, 2013)

Future Leader - one of the things you might notice in regard to your responses, a hugely key thing in all SOF and the military in general - you have to be open for learning at all times. You must pay attention to detail, and be accurate in your questions, ALL SF is SOF, not all SOF is SF.  The moderating staff and the Mentor group are teams, we work that way almost without thinking...  Why do you think that is?

Huge Note:  Pay attention to Line numbered 5 in my original post - that goes for every non military unit...  you are so far away from even thinking about them that you're in a different universe.  Forget about them, they do not exist at this stage of your life.

Your responses are close to miserable, follow the adjunct instructions from Goon175.  although this seems like harassment at the moment, you are getting mentorship that many young DEPers would kill for, from people that have experience.

Any Marines, MARSOC, Recon, etc...  feel free to join in the discussion to help guide our young padawan toward enlightenment.


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## Future_Leader (Nov 9, 2013)

x SF med said:


> Future Leader - one of the things you might notice in regard to your responses, a hugely key thing in all SOF and the military in general - you have to be open for learning at all times. You must pay attention to detail, and be accurate in your questions, ALL SF is SOF, not all SOF is SF.  The moderating staff and the Mentor group are teams, we work that way almost without thinking...  Why do you think that is?
> 
> Huge Note:  Pay attention to Line numbered 5 in my original post - that goes for every non military unit...  you are so far away from even thinking about them that you're in a different universe.  Forget about them, they do not exist at this stage of your life.
> 
> ...


Alright. I might not have anything for a week or two. And I do appreciate you guys helping me figure this stuff out now rather than me looking like an idiot later. I'll make a google doc and work on this when I'm not doing homework. Until then, wish me luck.


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## goon175 (Nov 9, 2013)

Future_Leader said:


> Alright. I might not have anything for a week or two. And I do appreciate you guys helping me figure this stuff out now rather than me looking like an idiot later. I'll make a google doc and work on this when I'm not doing homework. Until then, wish me luck.





> DO NOT post a response until you can post a response that includes this completed assignment



Strike one. If you want us to help you, at least have the decency to read what we post.


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## 8654Maine (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't know fellas.  So far, his track record on READING & COMPREHENSION screw the pooch.
Is he worth the effort?

But, I'll give him that he's trying.
Don't overthink it.  Do what the Ranger and SF mods recommend.


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## AWP (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't mean to step on the toes of my fellow staff or the other excellent posts in this thread.

FL, I say this without being a Marine, quite ironic perhaps given that this the Marine Corps' birthday, but go into the USMC because you want to be a Marine and everything else is gravy. Within reason, the services have jobs which overlap, are similar, or even more-or-less identical. You're thinking about which race care to drive when you don't even have a learner's permit. Unless you are going for a service-specific job, pick a branch and go from there.

Next, x SF Med's tasker was designed to make you think, not regurgitate info found anywhere. You came to us as a clean slate and he tried to make you fill in some of the blanks. Any idiot can copy and paste, but that isn't learning. The heart of SOF is performing the basics at a high level. Critical thinking and articulation are something that every adult should possess. You're 17 and we could give you a bit of a pass on these two if you weren't so far off the mark.

We've helped I've-lost-track-of-the-number guys and gals in your position make a choice, BUT IT WAS THEIR CHOICE. We helped open a door, we didn't shove them through. Your OP makes it sound like you need a push and we don't do that.

Oh, this?



Future_Leader said:


> The question I asked about the Marine Corps and Special Forces was inane (stupid)


 
We either know synonyms for inane or can look up the definition for ourselves. Id have thought nothing of your usage of the word had you not felt the need to elucidate (explain).

I'll close with: Had you followed x SF Med's intent you would have done your own research, your own thinking, and narrowed down your choices on your own. The simple act of doing the research SHOULD (in theory) have helped you understand your options. At worst, you would be less ignorant but still undecided.

Less CTRL-C, CTRL-V, and more CTRL-N. Go.


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