# Presidential Debate Thread



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

First one I've watched in many years. 

Your reaction?


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

My first thought-

She is a very polished speaker.

He is obviously very nervous.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

She's been waiting weeks to say:

"Trumped Up Trickle Down"


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Her opening salvo definitely has him on his heels. I made the comment on the other thread about how Trump is the sort of dude that looks great hitting the heavy bag by himself, but Hillary is hitting back.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

He's said China like, 9 times. He's talked more about devaluing currency than he has about his actual economic policy.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

I'm trying to give him the "rookie benefit" - 

But he's not saying "anything".


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

She is using numbers. 

He is using phrases like, "lots" and "too many"

Come on Don, use your numbers. 

His attack regarding NAFTA gave him some points back. 

Is Lester losing control?


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Oh man- here we go, Donald Trump is not focused, and he looks flustered.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 26, 2016)

LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMBLLLEEEEE!


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

I get his frustration, but to the voter on the bubble, he's not winning points.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

He's said a bunch of things that are completely accurate.  Hillary on the other hand has handed him so many opportunities to crush her and he's obviously holding himself back.  I didn't like him going back to China as much as he did because of the optics.  Most people aren't going to understand the link between China and our job and deficit problems.  Taxing the wealthy won't work..  That just takes the money that would have been used for business development and hiring and forces it out of the country where it won't ever come back (Trump is right about that).  Raising minimum wages doesn't actually bring more money to the lower wage workers.  Just ask the restaurant workers that used to be employed in Seattle and are now unemployed because so many of the big restaurants couldn't make it work.

Hillary just started slurring a bit more than usual.  Wait and you'll see her go screechy...   If Hillary brings up something from Trump's past, he should answer with "at this point what difference does it make?"


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

The tax returns look bad, so do the emails.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

"I made a mistake using a personal email server..."


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

I guess I'm on a different side, she's getting her ass whooped.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

When is halftime?  Belicheck needs to get him back in track.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> I guess I'm on a different side, she's getting her ass whooped.



It's all how you see it.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> The tax returns look bad, so do the emails.



Tax returns are a bunch of bullshit as an issue.  He was exactly right about that just being smart business.  Do you own a home and take the mortgage interest deduction?  I do...  and because I do, I get a bunch of money back every year.  Should I not take the deduction so that the Government can use it for more overhead?


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

My late daddy...chica, he ain't late, you're a fossil.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Tax returns are a bunch of bullshit as an issue.  He was exactly right about that just being smart business.  Do you own a home and take the mortgage interest deduction?  I do...  and because I do, I get a bunch of money back every year.  Should I not take the deduction so that the Government can use it for more overhead?




You make good points and I would like to pick your brain via PM to explain some elements of business to a layman like me.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> "I made a mistake using a personal email server..."


That's what we call a crime.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> It's all how you see it.



And if you are looking at it objectively, and with facts in mind:

Live Fact Check: Trump And Clinton Debate For The First Time


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Tax returns are a bunch of bullshit as an issue.  He was exactly right about that just being smart business.  Do you own a home and take the mortgage interest deduction?  I do...  and because I do, I get a bunch of money back every year.  Should I not take the deduction so that the Government can use it for more overhead?



Taken in a vacuum yeah it is. While he talking about decreasing taxes for the wealthy even further it is a terrible look.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

lol, the CBS video keeps freezing and it just caught him leaning and talking...and made her look like a chipmunk


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Taken in a vacuum yeah it is. While he talking about decreasing taxes for the wealthy even further it is a terrible look.



Did you read his tax plan?  It's not just for the wealthy, it's across the board.  The only tax level that he doesn't plan to lower is EIC, he plans to trim it back to a lower level income to qualify and leave the benefit the same.


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## Dame (Sep 26, 2016)

Guns are the leading cause of death for African Americans? I thought it was the people behind the guns.
"Law and Order."


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Taken in a vacuum yeah it is. While he talking about decreasing taxes for the wealthy even further it is a terrible look.


Most wealthy people don't pay the 35%.  Hell even when it was 99% they didn't even get close to paying it.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

Dame said:


> Guns are the leading cause of death for African Americans? I thought it was the people behind the guns.
> "Law and Order."



Heart disease is the leading cause of death for black people.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

Trump is talking about taking guns from people


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## Marine0311 (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Trump is talking about taking guns from people



I took it as from criminals.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> And if you are looking at it objectively, and with facts in mind:
> 
> Live Fact Check: Trump And Clinton Debate For The First Time



Very biased.  They haven't called out any of Hillary's stretches.  Anyone that is supposedly fact checking that is constantly looking for good things to say about one candidate and bad things about the other isn't a fact check.  Find me one that is tearing both of them apart and I'll be interested.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

The "No fly list" argument for gun control is a joke. Attack on that premise Donald!!!

I cannot fucking believe he agreed on that idea.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Did you read his tax plan?  It's not just for the wealthy, it's across the board.  The only tax level that he doesn't plan to lower is EIC, he plans to trim it back to a lower level income to qualify and leave the benefit the same.



*THE FACT CHECKER |* Trump’s tax plan would raise federal income taxes on more than half of America’s single parents and one-fifth of families with children, according to an analysis by Lily Batchelder, a New York University expert on tax policy who formerly worked for Obama’s National Economic Council.

While the Trump campaign called it “pure fiction,” the right-leaning Tax Foundation has said the group was able to replicate her findings. Kyle Pomerleau, director of federal projects at the Tax Foundation, posted on Twitter that Batchelder’s results “seem reasonable to me.”


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Very biased.  They haven't called out any of Hillary's stretches.  Anyone that is supposedly fact checking that is constantly looking for good things to say about one candidate and bad things about the other isn't a fact check.  Find me one that is tearing both of them apart and I'll be interested.



There are at least 10 very reputable sites doing live fact checking. They all show just about the same things.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

Real-time fact checking and analysis of the first presidential debate


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## Salt USMC (Sep 26, 2016)

Trump is getting dunked on


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

Reputable?  I see a lot of bought liberal sites.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> Reputable?  I see a lot of bought liberal sites.



Sorry Breitbart doesn't run a fact checker.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> Reputable?  I see a lot of bought liberal sites.


I mean, I'm down to see some ultra conservative websites for fact checking where Hillary is the focus. 

Do you have any?


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

What ever happened to the debate standards and a moderator calling someone out for ad hominem attacks?


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Very biased.  They haven't called out any of Hillary's stretches.  Anyone that is supposedly fact checking that is constantly looking for good things to say about one candidate and bad things about the other isn't a fact check.  Find me one that is tearing both of them apart and I'll be interested.


Yeah, agree.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

The Washington Post  has certainly been checking no Hillary the same as Trump


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

So explain to me how Trump let anyone loose to hack her.  He made a not so funny joke about her deleted emails.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

Oh man, he's going after her with the leaks. Yes.


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## Dame (Sep 26, 2016)

Not when it goes against their own reporting on issues.


> But Comey also has said that investigators found particularly lacking any intent on Clinton or her staff’s part to mishandle classified information, and that would undermine any possible criminal case against them.


They not only reference their own article, they ignore that the laws broken are specific in stating intent is not a factor.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> So explain to me how Trump let anyone loose to hack her.  He made a not so funny joke about her deleted emails.


_“Russia, if you're listening, I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” he said, referring to deleted emails from the private account Hillary Clinton used as secretary of State. “I think you’ll probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”- July 28_

Donald Trump invites Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's emails

That was the claim, is that he encouraged Russia to find the emails.


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## Red Flag 1 (Sep 26, 2016)

This whole thing will be shaped, spin and blabbed about. The winner of the debate will depend on what news program you listen to tomorrow.


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## Centermass (Sep 26, 2016)

Anyone else find it funny listening to Clinton talk about cyber security? :-"


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## Marine0311 (Sep 26, 2016)

Centermass said:


> Anyone else find it funny listening to Clinton talk about cyber security? :-"



The irony is rich.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Centermass said:


> Anyone else find it funny listening to Clinton talk about cyber security? :-"


I actually cant believe Donald isn't just destroying her on that. I mean, wouldn't that be the course to take? A question like, "Oh, are YOU the subject matter expert here?"


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

Centermass said:


> Anyone else find it funny listening to Clinton talk about cyber security? :-"



I do.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> _“Russia, if you're listening, I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” he said, referring to deleted emails from the private account Hillary Clinton used as secretary of State. “I think you’ll probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”- July 28_
> 
> Donald Trump invites Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's emails
> 
> That was the claim, is that he encouraged Russia to find the emails.


And I took it as a joke.  I know he said it, but he was having a funny.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

On the war in Iraq:

Donald Trump keeps revising history on Iraq War support

Trump certainly didn't seem to ever support the war. This looks bad on the moderator and Clinton.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

Trump is showing he is not an experienced politician, which is what many people like about him. 

He's gasping though- and Hillary's smug smirk is beginning to get to me.


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## Marine0311 (Sep 26, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Trump is showing he is not an experienced politician, which is what many people like about him.
> 
> He's gasping though- and Hillary's smug smirk is beginning to get to me.



It seems to get to Trump.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> _“Russia, if you're listening, I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” he said, referring to deleted emails from the private account Hillary Clinton used as secretary of State. “I think you’ll probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”- July 28_
> 
> Donald Trump invites Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's emails
> 
> That was the claim, is that he encouraged Russia to find the emails.



I would read that as a joke.  I think the media spun it against him.  I've heard quite a few comments made in obvious jest, sometimes with a smile or laugh and the press still reports it like he was serious.



> Donald Trump said Thursday that he was being sarcastic when he appeared to suggest that Russia should use espionage to find Hillary Clinton's deleted emails.



Donald Trump claims sarcasm, but damage on hack comments lingers - CNNPolitics.com


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

It upsets me when Trump says things like "your president" we are Americans motherfucker he is our president.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

I am really disappointed. It is like watching a Subject Matter Expert debate someone who has read the Reader's Digest version of becoming president.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> It seems to get to Trump.


Yeah, it seems like he's frustrated. I don't think Hillary is impressive by any means, but if you're just judging on 'y u mad bro' points, Hillary is winning the debate.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> I would read that as a joke.  I think the media spun it against him.  I've heard quite a few comments made in obvious jest, sometimes with a smile or laugh and the press still reports it like he was serious.
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump claims sarcasm, but damage on hack comments lingers - CNNPolitics.com


Yeah, fair enough. It's the "Schroedinger's Douchebag" fallacy. Float some ridiculous shit out there, and when people respond unfavorably, just say you were joking.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am really disappointed. It is like watching a Subject Matter Expert debate someone who has read the Reader's Digest version of becoming president.



Which one do you see as the subject matter expert? 

Personally, I think that Trump's problem in this debate is that he's taking mental leaps that most people won't follow.  He's definitely smart, but he has to realize that when you are engaging in public speech and debate you have to lower the language to the lowest denominator and fully explain the concept.  Taking the mental leaps that he is taking isn't helping his case.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 26, 2016)

She gets points for the "stamina" comeback.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> Yeah, fair enough. It's the "Schroedinger's Douchebag" fallacy. Float some ridiculous shit out there, and when people respond unfavorably, just say you were joking.



I'll agree with that, but if you call him on that, you have to call her on some of her ridiculous crap.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Which one do you see as the subject matter expert?
> 
> Personally, I think that Trump's problem in this debate is that he's taking mental leaps that most people won't follow.  He's definitely smart, but he has to realize that when you are engaging in public speech and debate you have to lower the language to the lowest denominator and fully explain the concept.  Taking the mental leaps that he is taking isn't helping his case.



I thought it was just the opposite. It sounds to me like he is talking the facebook comment version of things.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> I'll agree with that, but if you call him on that, you have to call her on some of her ridiculous crap.


Oh, no one is immune man. The only problem is the sheer amount of ridiculous shit Trump has put out there. By volume only, he makes himself the primary target.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

Wow...  "I support our democracy" - Hillary Clinton

We're not a democracy, we're a democratic republic.  There's a difference.  I would expect a potential President to know it.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Welp! Let's see how the spin goes.


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## AWP (Sep 26, 2016)

Thankfully the volume's down, but it sounded like people were cheering or jeering Trump at the end. Anyone have a recap?


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Thankfully the volume's down, but it sounded like people were cheering or jeering Trump at the end. Anyone have a recap?


There were equal cheers/jeers for both during the night. You really couldn't tell and it wasn't 100% good or bad for either.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Anyone else find it weird that Hillary kept the stage, and shook hands while Trump just bounced with his family?


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

Real question though- the preparation piece is a big talking point. 

@compforce @ThunderHorse all the preconceptions aside, do you feel like Trump brought his A game tonight?


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> She gets points for the "stamina" comeback.


I think Bill would say much different with the 10 mistresses he had along the way...

@compforce @ThunderHorse all the preconceptions aside, do you feel like Trump brought his A game tonight?[/QUOTE]

He definitely missed some key points, but overall I'd say his performance was way above what he was doing during the Republican debates.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

Everything went basically as you'd expect.  Clinton pressed for social justice and globalism.  Trump pushed for nationalism.  Both of them took shots at each other.  The moderator took a lot of shots at Trump through his questions.  He called Trump out several times for things he's said in the past and only softballed Clinton on the emails. 

One thing that completely infuriates me about these televised debates is that the moderator isn't moderating.  All kinds of things happened that should have never been allowed in an honest debate starting with Hillary calling Trump racist (BTW, Hillary took the first shot at Trump in her opening question and he didn't take the bait until she kept hammering him personally and the moderator didn't do anything).  She's on record for some of the same kinds of statements more recently than Trump.  But NEITHER of them should have been allowed to pursue personal attacks like that.

I don't think anyone's going to change their position based on the debate.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> Real question though- the preparation piece is a big talking point.
> 
> @compforce @ThunderHorse all the preconceptions aside, do you feel like Trump brought his A game tonight?



I didn't expect him to.  I think he is playing the long game and will bring the A game now that he's seen her rules.  I do think that he made some really good points before the whole thing devolved into name calling.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> I didn't expect him to.  I think he is playing the long game and will bring the A game now that he's seen her rules.  I do think that he made some really good points before the whole thing devolved into name calling.


Ok, cool. What were your top three points that Trump made that should endure?



ThunderHorse said:


> I think Bill would say much different with the 10 mistresses he had along the way...


See? Shroedingers Douchebag.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> Anyone else find it weird that Hillary kept the stage, and shook hands while Trump just bounced with his family?



I was watching the audience for an hour during the pregame show.  It was not an evenly split audience. I'd wager it was approximately 2/3 hardcore democrats and 1/3 republicans and independents.  I'd probably just go as well.  Then again, he may also have something else scheduled that doesn't leave him with much time afterwards.  His campaign is more about meeting the people and using social media than it is about glad handing with the hardcores that will vote for him anyhow.


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## ThunderHorse (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> Real question though- the preparation piece is a big talking point.
> 
> @compforce @ThunderHorse all the preconceptions aside, do you feel like Trump brought his A game tonight?





amlove21 said:


> Ok, cool. What were your top three points that Trump made that should endure?
> 
> 
> See? Shroedingers Douchebag.


Can't argue with facts.  And that's only the mistresses we know about.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> I was watching the audience for an hour during the pregame show.  It was not an evenly split audience. I'd wager it was approximately 2/3 hardcore democrats and 1/3 republicans and independents.  I'd probably just go as well.  Then again, he may also have something else scheduled that doesn't leave him with much time afterwards.  His campaign is more about meeting the people and using social media than it is about glad handing with the hardcores that will vote for him anyhow.



You can tell from looking at people what party they are?


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## Centermass (Sep 26, 2016)

compforce said:


> Which one do you see as the subject matter expert?



Lester Holt.


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## amlove21 (Sep 26, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> Can't argue with facts.  And that's only the mistresses we know about.


So.....Bill Clinton had extramarital affairs because Hillary Clinton 'lacks stamina' to be a viable presidential candidate? 

I hope you don't take this personally, but that's a borderline retarded statement.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> Ok, cool. What were your top three points that Trump made that should endure?



1) We've made some really bad deals that have cost Americans jobs and destroyed the economy.  We're getting ready to do another one now (TPP) that will give incentives to companies to hire from outside the country even more.  If you think the current H1-B visa problem is bad, just wait until that goes into effect with its "working document" provision that lets them change the agreement without further ratification by Congress.  It would pretty much wipe out any limitations on guest workers from any signatory country.  BTW, you do know that we just gave control of the internet to the global community, right?

_eta:  For the record, the democrats are mostly against TPP and the republicans are mostly for it, which confuses the hell out of me_

2)China is sucking the life out of our economy through their deliberate devaluation of their currency.  This one is going to be forgotten or, like that fact checking page, deliberately misrepresented.  Here's how it works...  First, every good we export to China gets a huge tax imposed on it (in US Dollars).  The reverse is that we import goods from China and the tax is used to subsidize it.  That means that, if we were to import and export the same item, US Dollars effectively get transferred from US Corporations as well as some of our tax dollars to the chinese.  Take the example of a pen that costs 1.00 to make.  For the sake of argument, let's say that both companies need a 25% gross Margin on that pen.  That means that for us to meet our net margin (against cost) we would have to sell it at 1.50 (and so would the chinese). Margin Calculator However...  The US manufacturer has to pay an average 16.5% import tax to China...Import duty & taxes when importing into China - DutyCalculator Help Center   so 1.50*16.5=0.2475 meaning the US manufacturer gets 25.25 cents for each pen in Gross Profit, against which shipping, insurance and operational costs are all charged.  The chinese manufacturer on the other hand sends the same pen the other way and we don't tax it at all (we signed a one sided free trade agreement with them).  So the Chinese Manufacturer gets to keep all of the profit..  a full 50 cents on each pen, but wait...the chinese government also uses part of the taxes that they collect from us to subsidize the pen maker so their cost goes down below 1.00/pen...paid for by the US Manufacturer.  In the end, this is why equivalent quality products  made in china are cheaper than US made products, cheaper labor, subsidies paid for by US Manufacturers and lack of negative policy and regulatory costs including tax effects.  Now add into that whole equation the currency devaluation and the exchange rates also favor the chinese.  If the materials for the pen costs USD$1.00, in the US, the same materials imported , for simplicity from the US, cost USD$0.75 (guestimation) once the currency devaluation is calculated in, further exacerbating the trade disparity in favor of the chinese.  There's a reason all the big manufacturers like Apple use Chinese subsidiaries to do the work.  Eliminate that huge advantage and the jobs that were taken over to China would come roaring back.  Too many people forget that America's economy has always been a manufacturing/export economy.  If you want to fix it, we have to get back to manufacturing. Trump tried to make this point, but without research most will have missed it.  Trump just can't articulate the problem in a way that allows the masses to understand it, especially in the 2 minutes he is allotted.

3)We need to be stronger on enforcement of both our immigration laws and our internal laws.  We've talked about this one at length, I'm not going to rehash it again.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> You can tell from looking at people what party they are?



Not unless they are publically affiliated, like just about everyone the camera had in every shot.


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## compforce (Sep 26, 2016)

Oh, in my point about the Chinese currency, we do have tariffs on raw materials that are quite steep (266% on steel for example) but the chinese just send it to Viet Nam where it is changed slightly or a final ingredient added and then ship it to us paying the Viet Nam tariff rather than the chinese one.  My example was consumer goods (finished)


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## Brill (Sep 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> On the war in Iraq:
> 
> Donald Trump keeps revising history on Iraq War support
> 
> Trump certainly didn't seem to ever support the war. This looks bad on the moderator and Clinton.



Trump (or the mod) should have reminded viewers that he did not have access to Intel that Sen Clinton had before she voted for the Iraq war and she voted against the "surge".


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## Brill (Sep 27, 2016)

I thought Trump "won" the first 30 mins but after the "birther " question he sank and then his defense about Iraq was personal chats with a friend???

Clinton came off as a career politician that quoted prepared remarks but didn't provide hope and Trump was way too defensive but passionate about his economic views. His dig at Yellen was spot on as was the assertion of a bubble.  Wall Street is the BEST place to keep money NOW but in Dec, when the Fed will be forced to raise rates, we'll be back at the Brexit vote and commodities will be the safe haven of choice.

I questioned Clinton's "Intel surge" as a CT strategy...where are those assets coming from...and laughed at the idea "we should go after Baghdadi" and her position on cyber. Why aren't we doing those things  now?

The exchange about nuclear weapons was really stupid and shouldn't have been a topic.

To me the night was for independents: who would make American lives better? A politician whith deep roots to all things ugly in Washington or an outsider with deep ties to the business world?


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 27, 2016)

His message was solid, but she got to him.  Every time he would interrupt her, or put his face close to the microphone and give a "NO!" while she was speaking, my wife would roll her eyes.  He scored little points with female conservatives who need to be converted.  They stand on the line of a man who has a history of saying unkind things about women, vs the idea of voting in their first woman president.


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## compforce (Sep 27, 2016)

And yet the preliminary, very nonscientific polls all have Trump winning the debate, even Time (53%) and CNBC(66%)  Drudge has it at 82%

I still think nothing changed and that's fine for Trump.  Clinton reiterated the same talking points that every dem politician has, and did it in a passive voice "we need to"  vs Trump's call to action in the active voice "We will/I will"


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## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 27, 2016)

I didn't bother to watch the debates....I knew I could come here to get accurate, unbiased opinions.....:-"


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## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

compforce said:


> And yet the preliminary, very nonscientific polls all have Trump winning the debate, even Time (53%) and CNBC(66%)  Drudge has it at 82%



The bar was set low for him.  All he to do was _not_ act like himself, which for the most part he was successful.  Right now he has momentum.


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## Gunz (Sep 27, 2016)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> I didn't bother to watch the debates....I knew I could come here to get accurate, unbiased opinions.....:-"




LOL...but there's truth in what you say, Kemosabe. You'll probably get a more straight forward-analysis on Shadowspear than on any of the networks. Because most of the people who post here, regardless of political affiliation, are smarter and more worldly than mere TV personalities.


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## Ooh-Rah (Sep 27, 2016)

Even when he is being "Trump", he does make me laugh out loud sometimes.  He's handlers must pop xanex like candy...

Rosie O'Donnell slams Trump as an 'orange anus'

_'Somebody who's been very vicious to me, Rosie O'Donnell – I said very tough things to her. And I think everybody would agree that she deserves it, and nobody feels sorry for her,' Trump said._


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## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Even when he is being "Trump", he does make me laugh out loud sometimes.  He's handlers must pop xanex like candy...
> 
> Rosie O'Donnell slams Trump as an 'orange anus'
> 
> _'Somebody who's been very vicious to me, Rosie O'Donnell – I said very tough things to her. And I think everybody would agree that she deserves it, and nobody feels sorry for her,' Trump said._



I swear, he will actually gain votes for his feud with O'Donnell....


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 27, 2016)

The Daily 202: Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate

Points out that Hillary didn't win, Trump just lost.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 27, 2016)

I do think trump said the right things for his base. That is evidenced by posts here. I think he embarrassed himself to independents or undecided voters. His lack of polish is astounding. He is not articulate, and the personal attacks on irrelevant celebrities? For real?


----------



## compforce (Sep 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> The Daily 202: Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate
> 
> Points out that Hillary didn't win, Trump just lost.



Yup, no bias there...  Look at the sample sizes and the locations.

BTW, even Michael Moore said Trump won Michael Moore Says Trump ‘Won’ The Debate

Easy way to tell which side of the debate a "news" site is on.  The company that does the "Add My Name" ads only places the ad on sites that have a majority of readers that match the candidate.  Want to know which way the organization is biased?  Look for the ad.:


----------



## compforce (Sep 27, 2016)

I offer you this as a counter-piece:
How Trump won over a bar full of undecideds and Democrats | New York Post



> “I’ve been a Democrat all of my life, but when Clinton mentions her husband and the jobs he brought to the country in the ’90s, it’s not a fair assessment. She is no moderate Democrat the way he was, her policies would not bring back jobs,” said Nathan Nemick





> When Al Gore turned the party toward its progressive wing in 2000, however, he left behind Westmoreland County (PA) Democrats.
> 
> Democrats here are more traditional in their values — they are pro-gun, pro-life, pro-coal, something today’s Democratic Party has left no room for.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> The Daily 202: Why even Republicans think Clinton won the first debate
> 
> Points out that Hillary didn't win, Trump just lost.



Interesting.  That is contrary to a number of polls (not for-real scientific polls, but rather snap polls) this morning, even on Drudge.


----------



## Single Malt (Sep 27, 2016)

compforce said:


> I offer you this as a counter-piece:
> How Trump won over a bar full of undecideds and Democrats | New York Post


Is Westmoreland County stock in the 1950s?


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> Is Westmoreland County stock in the 1950s?



Things have gotten so polarized most politicians forget that the Blue Dog democrats still exist, but they do, especially in the south.


----------



## Single Malt (Sep 27, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Things have gotten so polarized most politicians forget that the Blue Dog democrats still exist, but they do, especially in the south.


That's very interesting. The changes in party politics back then and the few elections up to '68 make for good reads. But I had no idea Blue Dog democrats are still around. I have lived as far south as central VA and other than great NASCAR, less ethnic diversity, and good moonshine, it isn't that different from Fairfax County or Loudoun County.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> That's very interesting. The changes in party politics back then and the few elections up to '68 make for good reads. But I had no idea Blue Dog democrats are still around. I have lived as far south as central VA and other than great NASCAR, less ethnic diversity, and good moonshine, it isn't that different from Fairfax County or Loudoun County.



The I-85 corridor in NC, and parts of I-40, are largely democrat, especially because of the migrating population from out of state for work, school, or retirement.  If you go east of I-95 or more than 30 miles off any interstate, it becomes very much more conservative, even with the democrats.  They are still around but just don't make the noise as the more liberal dems in the urban centers.  In fact there are still democrats around who think FDR was Satan personified.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 27, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Interesting.  That is contrary to a number of polls (not for-real scientific polls, but rather snap polls) this morning, even on Drudge.


Yeah.  A lot of those polls get posted to places like the Trump subreddit and conservative Facebook groups, who then flood the voting.  

Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight says that current events are reflected in polling about a week after the event happens.   We'll see real reflections of the debates in about a week when the next round of state polling is released.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 27, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight says that current events are reflected in polling about a week after the event happens.   We'll see real reflections of the debates in about a week when the next round of state polling is released.



Nate Silver and FiveThirtyEight are good to go.  I like polling by political scientists or colleges much more than those commissioned by any of the media.  I think those independent of the media take the methodology much more seriously, and Silver certainly does.

But why Drudge, the snap polls, etc., are so important are not that they are scientifically accurate (because they aren't), but because most people don't care about the science behind polling.  If they see a bunch of the little snap polls, subreddit, etc., go for one or the other, they see meaning, just like when we hear "Nine out of 10 dentists recommend..."


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 27, 2016)

A Bean and Cheese burrito made their top four burritos in the burrito bracket...so, they lost cred with me very early in their life.


----------



## Dienekes (Sep 27, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Things have gotten so polarized most politicians forget that the Blue Dog democrats still exist, but they do, especially in the south.



I'm not so sure about that. Lived in basically the Deep South my entire life and have friends from all around it, and calling someone a Democrat is basically an insult in regular conversation with most "conservative" people.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 27, 2016)

From official Lawrence Kansas Twitter feed -


----------



## Brill (Sep 27, 2016)

I think Trump needs to learn the "less is more" idea and actually steal some of the Clinton camp's lines.  For example, when answering the "birther" question, he should have answered JUST like Clinton did regarding her emails: it was a mistake and end it.  If pressed, quote Clinton's, Mills', etc lines of "I don't remember" or just ignore and when pressed, claim that Americans want to hear about other real issues instead of turning the debate into a Jerry Springer show.

Additionally, when discussing Clinton's experience as Secretary of State, be honest and highlight that she was a political appointee and, like all the others before and since, that post is given to ruling power loyalists vice career diplomats, who really know the issues concerning various geo-political areas.  All cabinet officials are merely mouth pieces for the President and the Senior Executive Service who really run the day-to-day operations of the agencies.  If she REALLY made the "go" call on the UBL raid, she would know what we're doing to hunt IS leaders.

Trump would have scored big with female voters had he admitted saying stupid stuff about the Miss America contestant and then mentioned that he stands by victims of habitual sexual predators and will create policies that help women who are manipulated by men.

Finally, after Clinton said nukes are bad, Trump would have won the day by simply saying that our Nation's biggest problem is the opioid  epidemic.  It's destroying the country, to include Appalachia which has been decimated by President Obama's anti-coal stance, and then tie in the pathway of heroin: it ain't coming in from Canada.

Edit: Are Americans really concerned/curious about candidates positions on the Iraq war, President Obama's birthplace, or views on women?


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 27, 2016)

lindy said:


> I think Trump needs to learn the "less is more" idea and actually steal some of the Clinton camp's lines.  For example, when answering the "birther" question, he should have answered JUST like Clinton did regarding her emails: it was a mistake and end it.  If pressed, quote Clinton's, Mills', etc lines of "I don't remember" or just ignore and when pressed, claim that Americans want to hear about other real issues instead of turning the debate into a Jerry Springer show.
> 
> Additionally, when discussing Clinton's experience as Secretary of State, be honest and highlight that she was a political appointee and, like all the others before and since, that post is given to ruling power loyalists vice career diplomats, who really know the issues concerning various geo-political areas.  All cabinet officials are merely mouth pieces for the President and the Senior Executive Service who really run the day-to-day operations of the agencies.  If she REALLY made the "go" call on the UBL raid, she would know what we're doing to hunt IS leaders.
> 
> ...



I agree with everything but views on women... how he talks about women is important. In a country with an ever growing female workforce gender equality and pay are important factors. A candidate that says stuff like Trump does about women speaks about his character, and his views on that evolution.


----------



## Brill (Sep 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I agree with everything but views on women... how he talks about women is important. In a country with an ever growing female workforce gender equality and pay are important factors. A candidate that says stuff like Trump does about women speaks about his character, and his views on that evolution.



I fully agree.  I don't think Clinton has a leg to stand on when it comes to advocating women's rights in the workplace.



> Her reflex was to protect him and his future, and early on, she turned to a longtime Clinton loyalist, Ms. Wright, to defend him against the allegations, according to multiple accounts at the time, documented in books and oral histories.
> 
> “We have to destroy her story,” Mrs. Clinton said in 1991 of *Connie Hamzy*, one of the first women to come forward during her husband’s first presidential campaign, according to George Stephanopoulos, a former Clinton administration aide who described the events in his memoir, “All Too Human.” (Three people signed sworn affidavits saying Ms. Hamzy’s story was false.)
> 
> ...



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/u...illary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 27, 2016)

It looks like someone did, in fact, call Sean Hannity about Trump's conversations on the Iraq war.  Hannity confirmed Trump's story.
Hannity Confirms Trump’s Anti-War Stance


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 27, 2016)

lindy said:


> I fully agree.  I don't think Clinton has a leg to stand on when it comes to advocating women's rights in the workplace.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/u...illary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0



I disagree. I believe wholeheartedly that Hillary will do, and has done so much more for women's rights, and issues than any other candidate.


----------



## Poccington (Sep 27, 2016)

That debate was an utter shit show.

Jesus wept.


----------



## AWP (Sep 27, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Things have gotten so polarized most politicians forget that the Blue Dog democrats still exist, but they do, especially in the south.



I grew up in a Blue Dog Democrat household, but Blue Dogs were practically wiped out because of the Tea Party and polarization along political lines. I'm a Republican (maybe the first in my family) and now my parents vote a straight Democratic ticket. My dad HATES President Obama but voted for him because he "couldn't vote for a damn Republican." My folks are a part of the problem in this country, but there are obviously enough on both sides of the aisle and that's placed us where we are today.

I think Blue Dogs exist, but they are negated by internal politics. Blue Dogs traditionally voted against anti-gun measures so their loss is a blow to pro-gun rights in America.

Political moderates are the closest thing we've had to a third party but they are a dying breed whether Dem. or Rep.


----------



## Centermass (Sep 27, 2016)

"I can't remember." "I don't recall." "I don't recollect." "I'm not certain."

How many times when questioned, has the woman used these terms God knows how many times, but when it came to singling out talking points, statements and dates during this debate, she was johnny on the spot. Now, I don't know exactly what's up under the back of her dress without actually seeing it, but it sure seems suspicious. Maybe, SOMEONE should ask her about it, or in the next debate? This isn't the first time the issue of her wearing an ear piece and being fed answers has come up.


----------



## Blizzard (Sep 28, 2016)

This is the best this country has to offer?  Really?  Sigh.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 28, 2016)

Centermass said:


> "I can't remember." "I don't recall." "I don't recollect." "I'm not certain."
> 
> How many times when questioned, has the woman used these terms God knows how many times, but when it came to singling out talking points, statements and dates during this debate, she was johnny on the spot. Now, I don't know exactly what's up under the back of her dress without actually seeing it, but it sure seems suspicious. Maybe, SOMEONE should ask her about it, or in the next debate? This isn't the first time the issue of her wearing an ear piece and being fed answers has come up.
> 
> View attachment 16724


It's the pack for her lapel mic.

You can clearly see it here http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/57e9f6b5077dcc1b008b85d6-2400/gettyimages-610599278.jpg


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I disagree. I believe wholeheartedly that Hillary will do, and has done so much more for women's rights, and issues than any other candidate.



As long as the women aren't Republican, don't own a business, don't have a weapon, don't live in "coal country", and give to the Foundation...then I would agree.

As President, what could she do that Obama hasn't done?


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 28, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I grew up in a Blue Dog Democrat household, but Blue Dogs were practically wiped out because of the Tea Party and polarization along political lines. I'm a Republican (maybe the first in my family) and now my parents vote a straight Democratic ticket. My dad HATES President Obama but voted for him because he "couldn't vote for a damn Republican." My folks are a part of the problem in this country, but there are obviously enough on both sides of the aisle and that's placed us where we are today.
> 
> I think Blue Dogs exist, but they are negated by internal politics. Blue Dogs traditionally voted against anti-gun measures so their loss is a blow to pro-gun rights in America.
> 
> Political moderates are the closest thing we've had to a third party but they are a dying breed whether Dem. or Rep.



Yes, I totally agree.  Blue Dog Democrats have been marginalized by their party, just as "moderate Republicans" have been shunned by the GOP.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> As long as the women aren't Republican, don't own a business, don't have a weapon, don't live in "coal country", and give to the Foundation...then I would agree.
> 
> As President, what could she do that Obama hasn't done?



Maybe nothing? But it will be better than Trump.

Hillary's positions:

Hillary Clinton on women's rights and opportunity

I tried to find a similar page for Trump, but it does not seem to be a thing...


----------



## amlove21 (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Maybe nothing? But it will be better than Trump.
> 
> Hillary's positions:
> 
> ...


BECAUSE UNLIKE HILLARY TRUMP'S POLICY STANCES AND PLANS ARE SECRET SO HE CAN GET THE JUMP ON ISIS AND AMERICA.

Kidding, I don't know a lot about his actual policy positions- serious question does someone have a link where Trump outlines foreign policy, economy, etc?


----------



## Marine0311 (Sep 28, 2016)

I must admit I am torn about the debate. Clinton look polished and Trump not so much. Both had good lines and counter lines. Trump should have not interrupted and Clinton shouldn't have reacted at times, although overall she looked calmer.


----------



## compforce (Sep 28, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> BECAUSE UNLIKE HILLARY TRUMP'S POLICY STANCES AND PLANS ARE SECRET SO HE CAN GET THE JUMP ON ISIS AND AMERICA.
> 
> Kidding, I don't know a lot about his actual policy positions- serious question does someone have a link where Trump outlines foreign policy, economy, etc?



DONALD J. TRUMP POLICIES


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 28, 2016)

USC/LA Times tracking poll....

Who know how valid it is, but we'll know with other polls this week how close it is.....

Breaking: First Official Post-Debate Poll Is In... Many Will Be Stunned


----------



## Rapid (Sep 28, 2016)

Gravis Post-Debate Poll: Trump +4 -- Undecideds Go to Trump Over Hillary 34% to 5%

lol, it's funny because even the BBC article I was reading earlier admitted the moderator chose questions that went real easy on Clinton. Yet, with all that, she's still behind.

Barely a mention of emails, the Foundation, etc... if those get brought up properly in future, she's toast.

_"HAHA THIS IS CERTAINLY THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR DRUMPF!"_


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Sep 28, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> USC/LA Times tracking poll....
> 
> Who know how valid it is, but we'll know with other polls this week how close it is.....
> 
> Breaking: First Official Post-Debate Poll Is In... Many Will Be Stunned




Trump ahead after the debate. WOW! Hilary wore her full on, power red pant suit. Trump left his power tie in the suitcase.


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> I must admit I am torn about the debate. Clinton look polished and Trump not so much. Both had good lines and counter lines. Trump should have not interrupted and Clinton shouldn't have reacted at times, although overall she looked calmer.



You realize he interrupted her only four more times than she did he? I wonder if she had the questions in advance?


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Maybe nothing? But it will be better than Trump.
> 
> Hillary's positions:
> 
> ...



How many bills did she sponsor in the Senate focused on those issues?  What did she do at State to promote women's rights (tough to do within USG because it's illegal to make decisions based on age, gender, race, etc)?


----------



## Marine0311 (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> You realize he interrupted her only four more times than she did he? I wonder if she had the questions in advance?



I did not count no. It was a quick observation.


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

Marine0311 said:


> I did not count no. It was a quick observation.



Your "implicit bias" is showing.

I'm regurgitating from the radio...I didn't count either.


----------



## Marine0311 (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> Your "implicit bias" is showing.
> 
> I'm regurgitating from the radio...I didn't count either.



The earth is flat.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> How many bills did she sponsor in the Senate focused on those issues?  What did she do at State to promote women's rights (tough to do within USG because it's illegal to make decisions based on age, gender, race, etc)?



What has Trump done apart from shit all over the way women look? I don't know that she is the BEST ever. She is miles ahead of Trump though in that regard.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> What has Trump done apart from shit all over the way women look? I don't know that she is the BEST ever. She is miles ahead of Trump though in that regard.


Not even close, I'd say inches, maybe.


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

Here is the legislation that Senator Clinton sponsored and actually made it to the Resolute Desk.

Impressive ability to work across the aisle and negotiate.

Search Bills in Congress - GovTrack.us

This is what made it out of the Senate.

Search Bills in Congress - GovTrack.us

Voting record when she was campaigning:

*Time Period* *Votes Eligible* *Missed Votes* *Percent* *Percentile*
2007 Jul-Sep     119                        26                        21.8% 93rd
2007 Oct-Dec     85                         71                        83.5% 99th
2008 Jan-Mar    85                        38                        44.7% 97th
2008 Apr-Jun     77                        60                        77.9% 98th


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 28, 2016)

ThunderHorse said:


> Not even close, I'd say inches, maybe.



Oh yeah? Have you heard the shit Trump says publicly about women?


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> What has Trump done apart from shit all over the way women look? I don't know that she is the BEST ever. She is miles ahead of Trump though in that regard.



Sounds like he hates them to me.

Attorney: Trump Companies Employ More Female Execs Than Male [VIDEO]

Trump pays his female employees more than Clinton

Cathy Hoffman Glosser: Executive Profile & Biography - Businessweek


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> Sounds like he hates them to me.
> 
> Attorney: Trump Companies Employ More Female Execs Than Male [VIDEO]
> 
> ...



He also has said dtraight up that he doesn't respect women, has called them cows, forced one to go to the gym, regularly demeans women in public.... and on and on.


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> He also has said dtraight up that he doesn't respect women, has called them cows, forced one to go to the gym, regularly demeans women in public.... and on and on.



All women? I thought he was talking about a select few with whom he had disputes. I'm can only assume the list is probably as long as Clinton's female enemies list.

Regarding the beauty contestant, she was under contract.

I'm not condoning Trump's comments as much as I'm calling BS on assertions that Clinton will advance women's rights simply because she's a woman. She will advance whoever pays the most.


----------



## Brill (Sep 28, 2016)

Does anyone have ideas how Johnson would have changed the debate? I think he would have kept the focus on the issues instead of Trump's repeated claims of how successful he's been in business.


----------



## DocIllinois (Sep 28, 2016)

lindy said:


> *Sounds like he hates them to me.*
> 
> Attorney: Trump Companies Employ More Female Execs Than Male [VIDEO]
> 
> ...



Since there was no sarcasm smiley attached to this comment, I shall state: Well said, sir!

Donald Trump sexism tracker: Every offensive comment in one place


My personal 2016 fave:

"'There has to be some form of punishment,' he told MSNBC, referring to women who would seek to defy the (abortion) ban.

Trump reversed his position two hours later, with a statement saying that he would punish doctors who performed abortions but not the women themselves."


----------



## Snake (Sep 28, 2016)

I don't get the whole he doesn't respect any women deal... He has a wife, it seems if he didn't respect her she'd divorce and run with all the crazy amounts of money. My opinion...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Sep 28, 2016)

Snake said:


> I don't get the whole he doesn't respect any women deal... He has a wife, it seems if he didn't respect her she'd divorce and run with all the crazy amounts of money. My opinion...



You are 17 years old and likely know Trump from his reality TV shows more than anything else.  Years before you were even born, hell maybe before your parents even met, Trump was saying some very unkind things about women...publicly.  Go onto YouTube and do searches at some of the things he has said.  Specifically about Rosie O'Donnell.  Now to be fair...i HATE Rosie O'Donnell, but I do not talk poorly about her in front of my wife or children because I respect them, and do not want them to hear me say things I would never want them to repeat.  Trump has no such filter...his own camp cannot control him.

I'm getting off track here.  The bottom line is that you have not had enough life experiences yet to understand why your statement about his CURRENT wife running off with the money if he was disrespectful to her, is so off base.  I try not to use Wiki as a source for much, but it is usually pretty solid for stuff like this...he's known to have had multiple affairs, after his kids were born, which in my world gives him an automatic FAIL on the "respect of women" test.


----------



## Snake (Sep 28, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> You are 17 years old and likely know Trump from his reality TV shows more than anything else.  Years before you were even born, hell maybe before your parents even met, Trump was saying some very unkind things about women...publicly.  Go onto YouTube and do searches at some of the things he has said.  Specifically about Rosie O'Donnell.  Now to be fair...i HATE Rosie O'Donnell, but I do not talk poorly about her in front of my wife or children because I respect them, and do not want them to hear me say things I would never want them to repeat.  Trump has no such filter...his own camp cannot control him.
> 
> I'm getting off track here.  The bottom line is that you have not had enough life experiences yet to understand why your statement about his CURRENT wife running off with the money if he was disrespectful to her, is so off base.  I try not to use Wiki as a source for much, but it is usually pretty solid for stuff like this...he's known to have had multiple affairs, after his kids were born, which in my world gives him an automatic FAIL on the "respect of women" test.


I have never seen a single one of his reality TV shows. I will do some more research on his past disrespects of women. As far as affairs go you may be correct, but do WE really know if it's true or not? Media always wants a story that will sell, not that they weren't true stories. The only ones who do know the truth are Donald and his mistress(s) and whomever else he may or she(s) may have told. Not saying you are wrong though.


----------



## TLDR20 (Sep 29, 2016)

Snake said:


> I have never seen a single one of his reality TV shows. I will do some more research on his past disrespects of women. As far as affairs go you may be correct, but do WE really know if it's true or not? Media always wants a story that will sell, not that they weren't true stories. The only ones who do know the truth are Donald and his mistress(s) and whomever else he may or she(s) may have told. Not saying you are wrong though.



You are pretty out of your league here kid. He publicly admitted it, while saying how his wife no longer appealed to him sexually. He then married that woman. 

Kid if you are going to talk about the media selling stories, you need to know what has actually happened..


----------



## Gunz (Sep 29, 2016)

I've seen high school debates that were more mature than this one.


----------



## SpitfireV (Sep 29, 2016)

That's because these aren't really structured debates but rather pissing contests.


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 29, 2016)

I think the purpose of debates have long since gone the way of the dinosaur.  With the 24/7 news cycle, interwebs, social media, magazines, newspapers, a million TV channels...there are so many ways to get the information.  You know the differences in the candidates from day one....debates have no surprises or revelations.


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Sep 29, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> I think the purpose of debates have long since gone the way of the dinosaur.  With the 24/7 news cycle, interwebs, social media, magazines, newspapers, a million TV channels...there are so many ways to get the information.  You know the differences in the candidates from day one....debates have no surprises or revelations.



I thought it was interesting to listen to them when flustered.  Clinton sounded very poor when talking about the economy, thoughts on causes for current economic state and such.  I doubt if she was scripted by her handlers with nobody badgering she wouldn't have come off like that.  Trump when losing focus did not appear to be a strong enough communicator to explain more complex thoughts succinctly.

For what it is worth I was very interested to see that Trump never once pushed Clinton on a number of topics which she is vulnerable on.  He didn't bite on Libya when she brought up his deal in 2011 with Gaddafi, and I wonder if his handlers want to play the long con.  Why ruin a media frenzy this far away from the election?


----------



## Snake (Sep 29, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> You are pretty out of your league here kid. He publicly admitted it, while saying how his wife no longer appealed to him sexually. He then married that woman.
> 
> Kid if you are going to talk about the media selling stories, you need to know what has actually happened..


As I stated I would research the subject and now I have. I agree about his affairs. I wasn't able to find that he admitted to them though.


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Sep 29, 2016)

Snake said:


> As I stated I would research the subject and now I have. I agree about his affairs. I wasn't able to find that he admitted to them though.



There are articles on Donald admitting to infidelity while he was married the first time around.  He even said that comments about those events would be fair game in political discussion.  He also wrote about it in his own book The Art of the Deal.

Your "research" needs some work.


----------



## Snake (Sep 29, 2016)

Isiah6:8 said:


> There are articles on Donald admitting to infidelity while he was married the first time around.  He even said that comments about those events would be fair game in political discussion.  He also wrote about it in his own book The Art of the Deal.
> 
> Your "research" needs some work.


Never read the book. Can you post a link where he admits to it. Couldn't find any in my searches.


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Sep 29, 2016)

Snake said:


> Never read the book. Can you post a link where he admits to it. Couldn't find any in my searches.



I can but I am not going to.  My reply gives you enough information and keywords to better your own search methods.  Doing allows one to better understand.


----------



## Salt USMC (Sep 29, 2016)

Is anyone excited at all for the VP debate?  I mean, it's basically between Senator Kelly from the X-Men comics versus your lame uncle, so personally I'm not expecting much.  Will Mike Pence hulk out and smash the moderator?  Will Tim Kaine insult us in Spanish?  Who knows?  Who cares?


----------



## Devildoc (Sep 29, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Is anyone excited at all for the VP debate?  I mean, it's basically between Senator Kelly from the X-Men comics versus your lame uncle, so personally I'm not expecting much.  Will Mike Pence hulk out and smash the moderator?  Will Tim Kaine insult us in Spanish?  Who knows?  Who cares?



Who are these people??

I think your last two questions sum it all very well....."Who knows?  Who cares?"


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Sep 29, 2016)

One candidate is a fembot with 1 bionic foot in the grave, another is 70 going on 90, over weight, not active and married to a beautiful woman half his age....:-"

Honest Observation....These 2 VP choices might be more important then ever!!!!


----------



## DocIllinois (Sep 29, 2016)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> One candidate is a fembot with 1 bionic foot in the grave, another is 70 going on 90, over weight, not active and married to a beautiful woman half his age....:-"
> 
> Honest Observation....These 2 VP choices might be more important then ever!!!!



Watching a debate involving someone who believes, for instance:

- That the NRA should be training our military on how to carry weapons 
- That there should be funding for LGBT conversion therapy programs 
- That AGW isn't happening
- Who believes Intelligent Design provides the only "rational" explanation for the universe

Hellz yeah, I'm there.


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## Snake (Sep 29, 2016)

SpongeBob*24 said:


> One candidate is a fembot with 1 bionic foot in the grave, another is 70 going on 90, over weight, not active and married to a beautiful woman half his age....:-"
> 
> Honest Observation....These 2 VP choices might be more important then ever!!!!


He plays golf


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## Single Malt (Sep 29, 2016)

Snake said:


> He plays golf


you know trump plays golf but couldn't find anything in your research about the stuff he said about women?


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## Snake (Sep 29, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> you know trump plays golf but couldn't find anything in your research about the stuff he said about women?


Yet to find any reliable news websites that show it. Most are not known names, or clearly biased.


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## Salt USMC (Sep 29, 2016)

The latest conspiracy from the debate: Hillary was sending Lester Holt, a registered Republican, hand signals in order to get him to interrupt Trump.  Totally plausible


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## DocIllinois (Sep 29, 2016)

^^^ The lack of genuine evidence _for_ this conspiracy only demonstrates how clever the conspirators are.  

Red is the color of anger and danger, too!  That needs to be on the Twitterverse...

:wall::whatever:


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## Devildoc (Sep 29, 2016)

DocIllinois said:


> ^^^ The lack of genuine evidence _for_ this conspiracy only demonstrates how clever the conspirators are.
> 
> Red is the color of anger and danger, too!  That needs to be on the Twitterverse...
> 
> :wall::whatever:



If there was evidence, it wouldn't be a conspiracy, right??  Just need a wee hint of assumption and off you go....

Agreeing with you.....


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## Brill (Sep 29, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> The latest conspiracy from the debate: Hillary was sending Lester Holt, a registered Republican, hand signals in order to get him to interrupt Trump.  Totally plausible



I seriously doubt anyone would be surprised if it were true.


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## Single Malt (Sep 29, 2016)

Snake said:


> Yet to find any reliable news websites that show it. Most are not known names, or clearly biased.


What about just listening to his interviews on morning radio shows or the videos? Do you think that Trump's mouth is biased against him?


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## Salt USMC (Oct 1, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Yeah.  A lot of those polls get posted to places like the Trump subreddit and conservative Facebook groups, who then flood the voting.
> 
> Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight says that current events are reflected in polling about a week after the event happens.   We'll see real reflections of the debates in about a week when the next round of state polling is released.


The real polls are in: Clinton is up 3-5 points nationally, and gained ground in key swing states
Key takeaways: 
-Florida is still too close to call, and probably will be all the way up to election day
-North Carolina and Nevada might go blue this year
-Her debate performance was strong enough to give Clinton some polling momentum, but it's too soon to tell if that will last to the second debate in a little over a week

With the exception of Florida, the states cited in that article only got one new poll apiece.  We'll know if the gains are legitimate if a second round of polling on Monday confirms them.


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## ThunderHorse (Oct 1, 2016)

Lester Holt's a Republican...fooled me.  Working for MSNBC makes you pretty much a liberal at any time.  Scarborough's slant has gone way to the left and he used to be a Republican Congress Critter.


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## AWP (Oct 1, 2016)

I'm locking this, not because of any bias towards anyone or the arguments, but because we have a thread on the Presidential race.


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