# College Military Preparation Club Idea



## Ogriofa (May 28, 2020)

INTRODUCTION
Hi all, my name is Jared. I am an Sophomore in university aiming to tackle the Green Beret pipeline after graduation. I have been working on preparing fo said goal by working out, reading books on the topics, listning to podcasts, and building up some applicable skills. I have noticed there are a few of us at my university with similar goals and have happened on the idea of making a club or student organisation within the university dedicated to preparing students for their respective goal selections. My post here will outline this idea and seek to invite any guidance or feedback on the idea. Right now the idea is in its infancy so please do not hesitate to criticize or comment on it. For simplicity sake I’ll be referring to the idea as GSC (Get Selected Club) which is what I’ve taken to calling this club idea. If anyone has any better name idea please do share:)

PURPOSE
The purpose of GSC is to provide a community of likeminded participants to train in skills, standards, and activities towards military selections. This training would aim primarily to prepare participants for success in these selections. That said the club members would not need to be aiming for a specific military selection, or any for that matter, and would be welcome to join the club for the challenge. 

COMPONENTS
Participants would undergo physical and mentally challenging activities throughout the course of the club's workings. Whilst the club will create and run some of these activities, members will also be encouraged to participate in activities run by other organisations like Goruck, Spartan Race, Tough Mudder, and so on. Additionally, GSC aims to also better participants' knowledge. This knowledge will be taught in workshops hosted by club members, invited guest speakers, and via a provided reading list. Participating in any activity whether physical or mental is entirely optional.

ACTIVITIES
Club activities would be aimed at meeting the club’s purpose statement. The activities would all optional. Club activities could be planned by members. Activities would be aimed at developing skills or knowledge on priority topics such as:

LAND NAVIGATION
SURVIVAL SKILLS
CREED/ISTORY
MARKSMANSHIP
TEAMWORK 
ENDURANCE ACTIVITIES
LEADERSHIP
STRENGTH/CONDITIONING/PT STANDARDS
BUSHCRAFT
FIRST AID
LANGUAGE/CULTURE 
WATER COMPETENCY
ETC.

FINANCES
This is sort of the kicker, if we start the organisation within the school we will be able to request university funds for class activities. this is one of the major reasons I am considering this. Using club finances we would be able to hire instructors to visit and essentially teach specific skills or run workshops.

SAFETY
with the inhernt risk of physical activities and being that we would be a university club we would need to have a safety officer who would oversee activities. 

FEEDBACK
I am looking for any feedback wether positive, negative, or constructive. Anything would be much appreciated, thank you!

BONUS: I realize this sort of sounds like ROTC but I would clarify that this is more geared towards people who don’t want to go the officer route. In my case I want to go enlisted so ROTC was not an option.


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## Devildoc (May 28, 2020)

Since I was neither a Green Beret nor in special operations, my points are general in nature.

First, good on you for being proactive in trying to prepare yourself.

Second, with your shopping list, be very careful, you're going to get a lot of dated information and just plain wrong information and you'll end up training in something that will end up hurting you in the long run.

Third, check out local ruck clubs, often former military participate or lead them, and it will get you into carrying heavy things far and fast and help prepare your legs, back, feet, and mind.   Goruck is a great activity as are the others.


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## Ogriofa (May 28, 2020)

Devildoc said:


> Since I was neither a Green Beret nor in special operations, my points are general in nature.
> 
> First, good on you for being proactive in trying to prepare yourself.
> 
> ...


 

Hey Devildoc, thank you very much for the feedback And kinds words.

The issue of outdated information is one I had not considered, so that is much appreciated. 

I think we would be able to navigate the issue on the physical side by focusing on more general activities such as rucking for time standards and building maximal strength with a good conditioning base. This clearer see comes from reading material. I have read through the Ranger handbook, SF Medic Handbook, and SMU Handbook. These had some great info but as you mentioned information can be outdated. Even so, do you think it would be worth studying with the understanding and considerations that it might be outdated by the time I try out? 

I also intend to join a local orienteering club. The type and methods used will no doubt differ from that used in military land navigation training but again I think it would be worth the effort to build confidence in navigation especially since from what I’ve both read and heard, Q-Course Land NAV tends to be one of the big challenges in the pipeline. 

As for local ruck marching clubs, there unfortunately aren’t any in my area but I’ve driven a couple hours to attend some GORUCK events which were awesome. I have also been rucking with a classmate of mine on weekends. The idea for the club with regards to rucking and other events is that we would have a more fixed group of people to train with and progress with and then could enter such events together. The club’s financial allowance would also be helpful in covering activity fees. 

Thanks again for the feedback!


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## Devildoc (May 28, 2020)

@Ogriofa , where are you?  SS casts a pretty wide net, people here may have some good resources.


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## Ogriofa (May 28, 2020)

@Devildoc , I go to university in Bloomington IN at IU. But right now I’m back at home in North Cal because of the whole COVID situation.


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## Steve1839 (May 28, 2020)

I'm not sure seeking financing through a university is a good idea...and honestly, I'm not sure what preparatory activities require money...rucking, PT, land nav work can all be done with a minimal expenditure...granted, my experience with getting through the Q and Ranger School is a bit dated, but I don't think the core requirements , physical, mental or technical are vastly different than they were in my day...
Now, working towards common goals with like-minded people is a good idea...there is plenty of free information that can be used to prep...best of luck.


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## NovemberWhiskey (May 28, 2020)

If I may, what are your individual needs,  strengths and weaknesses, and as a team? 

The starting points may be different, stemming from who you are, as people, instead of generics of careers that may or may not be applicable.

Good luck in any case.


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## Ogriofa (May 28, 2020)

@Steve1839 Thank you for the feedback!

I’m optimistic to hear that the core requirements may not have changed that much and from what research I’ve done the Q-course has indeed not changed too much although by the time I enlist (3 years from now) it may well have changed. 

Your mention of funding is definitely noted. It’s a something I was also skeptical about until I joined a BJJ club and saw how lax IU is with funding (it even payed for “flying” brooms for the school’s Quidditch team). That said, its more a matter of showing them that we have legitimate costs.

As far as what we would actually use the funding for, I was planning on putting in towards one off activity fees for things like GORUCK events, Spartan Races, and as incentives to host guest speakers. GORUCK don’t typically cost that much, but it can cost to get to the locations their held in, as for the Spartan Races, they range just north of $100/per person. 

We don’t honestly need the funding, but because it’s there and we have a arguably legitimate cost it would work out well. As you mentioned the costs for rucking, PT, and Land Nav alone are negligible, and we also don’t need to be in a Goruck/Spartan type event to train, but they serve as good motivation for our regular training and do well to act as a measurable test of teamwork improvements so I see value in them in that respect.

Thank you again for the feedback and kind words.


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## Ogriofa (May 28, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> If I may, what are your individual needs,  strengths and weaknesses, and as a team?
> 
> The starting points may be different, stemming from who you are, as people, instead of generics of careers that may or may not be applicable.
> 
> Good luck in any case.



@NovemberWhiskey My best physical strength is in endurance. I’ve participated in various GORUCK, Spartan races, and other such events. The longest Ive rucked was a 20 mile with 45LB for Veterans Day back in my Senior Year of High School. I also did the Spartan Ultra which was 30+ miles with obstacles. The next best things I have working for me is language and culture. I grew up oversees and I speak 3 languages, two of which are on the DOD roster, and am aiming to lear either Russian or Arabic in college.

My greatest weakness physically speaking is maximal strength. I’m not great with heavier load and have been working on using the Tactical Barbell System. Mentally my greatest weakness is probably following. In various teamwork environments I’ve had issues putting others plans and ideas above my own thoughts on the respective matters. To work on this I’ve immersed myself in teamwork based activities ranging from college sports teams to business groups within the school, and am getting better at following and knowing when and how to respectfully contribute to the team.

My biggest need right now in for a more concrete base in land navigation. I recognize the importance of Land Nav and know how much it plays into the SF selection, so that has become one of my major priorities. I’ve gotten a book on it, but I would benefit from a club or some form of structured study on the topic. Aside from this I also have a need or better put sense to establish the club for other like myself. I got lucky and met some guys who had similar goals to me in my first week of studies, but I would like to have a system in place where others who weren’t as lucky can come and train together with other likeminded people.

As for who we are as a team. Right now we have 4 members including myself who train and work on stuff together. The first team activity we did aside from group training was a GORUCK last October that went well. The 3 other lads are all aiming for the 75th Ranger Regiment.


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## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Ogriofa said:


> @Devildoc , I go to university in Bloomington IN at IU. But right now I’m back at home in North Cal because of the whole COVID situation.



Thumbs down because you are going to the wrong school in Indiana. Boiler Up!
👍


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## Lefty375 (May 29, 2020)

Ogriofa said:


> @Steve1839 Thank you for the feedback!
> 
> I’m optimistic to hear that the core requirements may not have changed that much and from what research I’ve done the Q-course has indeed not changed too much although by the time I enlist (3 years from now) it may well have changed.
> 
> ...



I like your idea. I'm in College right now too and have successfully got a club funded. I would make sure to expand the club's mission so that it has legacy potential past your time. I would also expand the mission out a bit so that we could include some of those people who want to learn outdoor skills and/or whatever else you do, but maybe don't want to go-to selection. Maybe they just enjoy that stuff. There might be a worry that it would dilute the club's mission, but you never know who has what skills and how they may be of use. 

In addition, I think there is great value in teaching people skills you are hoping to perfect. Therefore, try and reach outside of the normal channels for recruiting. Get a wide range of people and possibly host seminars / free lessons. 

Good luck bud!


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## Devildoc (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Thumbs down because you are going to the wrong school in Indiana. Boiler Up!
> 👍



Gotta love a school who names its' mascot after a drink!

@Ogriofa, I would still pursue club funding.  If you don't ask, the answer will always be 'no.'  

Also, when I mention 'dated information,' yeah, the fundamentals are the fundamentals.  Stuff like weps/marksmanship, they will teach you everything you need to know.  While it's still 'sight picture, front site, squeeze', the military at large has to often un-do poor training.  So I guess my bigger point was get your body right and get your mind right.


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## Ogriofa (May 29, 2020)

@Lefty375 Thanks a ton for the feedback. 

It’s good to hear someone has been successful in a similar endeavor. I also think it would be a good idea to to expand the club to allow other people to join who’s goals differ from strictly military selection. One way I was thinking about balancing the key mission of the club and that proponent was to keep events optional. It’s going to be a bit of a balancing act too since we do have a wilderness surivial club on campus that is relatively popular. 

If you don’t mind my asking, aside from expanding the club’s overal mission what ways would strengthen its legacy potential? And how have you balanced your clubs mission with meeting more general needs or goals of other students?

I also really like your idea on hosting seminars. It’s not something that crossed my mind, as whislt I did envision hosting guests, I had thought to keep it limited to club members. That said hosting guests could prove to be a great catalyst for recruitment, so I’ll definitely take that into account. 

Thanks again for the advice and kind words.


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## Ogriofa (May 29, 2020)

@Devildoc Thank for the clarification, I’ll definitely take this into account.

Being in Bloomington which is predominately anti 2A despite being in IN, marksmanship training would have been a long shot regardless. The only way to incorporate that would have been sending members to accredited schools over breaks. That however would cost, and IU definitely wouldn’t want to be caught funding Tactical Carbine Classes for it’s students... So on that end, if anything, we would limit it to very basic skills that would have to be be taught by professional schools familiar with the standards like RSS and would have to be out of our own pockets during breaks. 

Even then as you said our priority needs to be our physique and mental fortitude, so that will constitute the vast majority of our training. 

Thanks again for all the great feedback!


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## BloodStripe (May 29, 2020)

Bloomington might be leaning left, but ROTC exists at the school and Crane is only 45 minutes away. 

I'd recommend looking at leaving shooting out though. With where you are heading you might as well just join ROTC and take all the training opportunities offered. Pineland is filled with ROTC students.


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## x SF med (May 29, 2020)

Join an orienteering club.  The SF Medical Handbook is meant as a field reference for trained 18D's...  be careful trying anything in it without training.

I applaud your effort, but... SF...  it's about individuals in a team environment achieving a goal, a School funded club is a bad idea...  do ROTC MS I & MS II classes, they'll orient you to the military part of what you're trying to achieve.  A university funded club will have to admit anybody who wants to join, and will quickly NOT be what you intend, but an Airsoft/LARPer group.


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## Ogriofa (May 29, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> Bloomington might be leaning left, but ROTC exists at the school and Crane is only 45 minutes away.
> 
> I'd recommend looking at leaving shooting out though. With where you are heading you might as well just join ROTC and take all the training opportunities offered. Pineland is filled with ROTC students.


Thanks for the feedback.

I have definitely considered joining ROTC and trying for the various school within the program, but I am pretty much deadest on going enlisted. This is due to a variety of reasons but the main ones are summarized hear-under.

One of the big reasons for this is because I want to spend as much time in SF as I can. To my understanding officers Don’t spend nearly as long in combat roles within an ODA as NCO and lower enlisted. This could very well be inaccurate, but I do also know that it’s very rare for officers to go to SFAS out of ROTC as there is a rank requirement. That said my knowledge on the officer route is limited as it’s been a while since I crossed off that option so I could be wrong on specifics. 

Second, there is no guarantee that I would be able to go SF as an officer as job specifics when doing ROTC are all based on a merit list that takes into account grades, PT, and other factors. I am confident in my physique, but I had a rough first semester in college that dropped my GPA. I have since recovered academically but this would affect my chances of getting a combat role within the ROTC merit system. Alternatively going enlisted I can go 18X which guarantees me a shot at SFAS if I pass basic and Airborne. 

I also have more time to train without the labs and classes in the ROTC program and am on a solid training program that has seen me progress quite well physically Speaking. 

My final reason for going enlisted is more just a pipe dream, but if, and its a big IF, I make it to an ODA, I would want to try for SOTIC down the road, and that I believe is either limited to enlisted servicemen or just really dam rare in accepting officers. 

As for shooting I definitely agree. After the feedback I’ve gotten here, I have reassessed that priority and have decided not to incorporate it in the club. I will still aim to get some time behind a trigger, but I’ll instead save up some money and do so over summer and winter breaks at an accredited Marksmanship school like Rogers.

By the way when you referred to Crane were you referring to the Naval Surface Warefare Centre? If so why?

Thanks again for the feedback.


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## Ogriofa (May 29, 2020)

x SF med said:


> Join an orienteering club.  The SF Medical Handbook is meant as a field reference for trained 18D's...  be careful trying anything in it without training.
> 
> I applaud your effort, but... SF...  it's about individuals in a team environment achieving a goal, a School funded club is a bad idea...  do ROTC MS I & MS II classes, they'll orient you to the military part of what you're trying to achieve.  A university funded club will have to admit anybody who wants to join, and will quickly NOT be what you intend, but an Airsoft/LARPer group.


Thank you for the feedback. 

Joining an orienteering club is definitely high on my priorities. Right now it’s not a possibility because the local club is closed thanks to COVID, but I have  shot them an email inquiring about membership. 

I agree and understand your assessment of SF and the importance of teamwork towards a common goal. That is one of the key motivations behind my making the club and would remain so regardless of school funding. By creating a place for guys with similar aspirations to train, compare, contribute, and improve among one another we would be able to better our leadership abilities. Additionally I strongly believe participating in events like GORCUKS and other similar events as a team would also serve as a good experience to better our teamwork and leadership abilities. I recently participated in one such GORCUK event with my buddies and it served as a big eye opener into many flaws in my leadership. Continuing similar activities would be far more doable in a club format as we could regularly train similarly to how we did in the GORCUK whilst also being able to gauge progress more easily.

I also recognize your critique in that a club would need to admit any applicants and understand that could lead to a diminishing of the club’s mission. In fact one of our Ranger Prospect buddies brought up that very issue and we had a fairly long discussion around it. Our end conclusion was that whilst it would be a risk there are ways to counter the issue. 

One key consideration is that recruitment for school clubs is already quite hard. Out of the clubs I am a member for we only saw 2-5 new member last semster despite a strong marketing plan. Of those 5 or so members only 3 ever got back to us with emails and only 2 actively participate in club activities. On the other end we cannot remain a club if we do not have enough members but right now we have 4 guys so all it’d take is finding one more man to file the club. This is no way a solution to the issue of the club turning into a LARP joke but does serve to highlight the low odds of that happening.

Another major reason I am confident we could avoid that result is by maintaining a set list/parameter for club activities. When filing as a club at IU you have to submit a constitution that outlines the club’s purpose and limits its activities. By maintaining a very clear cut list of approved club activities we would be able to limit a negative transition. I have also already removed marksmanship from the activties so now most are based around rucking, survival, land navigation, and other barebones skills. These likely won’t appeal much to the LARP/Airsoft communities on campus especially when we already have LARP clubs on campus and a relatively prominent airsoft club off campus. 

Worst case scenario we could also be more direct about our club’s mission by having our first activities post recruitment cycle be long ruck marches and/or early morning PT. These would obviously be optional but would all the same deter people with misconceptions about the club from joining.

As for ROTC, I did consider the option, but will not by going that route for a variety of reasons which I brought up in my reply to Bloodstripe. In general summary the goals I have for myself are better met by going enlisted. 

Thank you again for bringing up these critiques. They have defiantly helped me amend some key base issues in my original idea.


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## Steve1839 (May 29, 2020)

I hate to say this because I don't want to dampen the enthusiasm of anyone considering a career in the Army in general or SF in particular, but it seems to me that some folks have the cart way in front of the horse...I've been an NCO on ODAs and I've been blessed to command an ODA....and I've also been an NCO and served as an  officer  in conventional units....before someone who hasn't yet served in the Army decides they want to spend as much time as possible on operational detachments, getting to the point where that is possible (PT, navigational skills etc) should be priority #1....and consider this.  The current CJS served in SF as an officer and went back to the conventional Army....I've know several men, competent SF officers who found that SF wasn't their cup of tea...and I've known good NCOs who felt the same way...and speaking from.personal experience, I don't think I could have spent the ten plus years from E6 to E8 as a senior engineer on a team without doing something else...until you've been there and done that for awhile, don't lock yourself into something you haven't experienced....condition and train and let that be your focus....life has a way of working itself out...


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## Ogriofa (May 30, 2020)

@Steve1839 Thanks for the feedback

You are definitely right in your message and it is one I understand and respect. My main reason for bringing up time in ODA’s was to further establish why I was leaning enlisted over commissioning. It’s definitely a viewpoint that puts the “cart way in front of the horse” but it was nevertheless a consideration when I decided against going ROTC. That consideration was also more broadly fit to my understanding of the different roles of officers and enlisted in military affairs and my personal preference towards the roles of the latter.

I also appreciate your feedback regarding diving into SF and over committing before I get/if I get a taste for what ODA’s are like. I do tend to look far ahead and can get ahead of myself. This is a clear cut case in point. That said, my interest in SF is one I have narrowed down over a couple years. Whilst I’ll never know what it’s truly like until I get there, my mentality in the present has been to best familiarize myself with the mission and prepare myself for selection so that I have the opportunity to get to a point where I can adequately assess the fit. I’ve done so by reading books, forums like Shadow spear, conditioning, taking college classes, and speaking to former Green Beret’s in my community. Most recently I have been able to take a class that focuses on the development of Al Qaeda in the Middle East and centers around the geopolitics of the region. Whilst this will never compare to an on the ground approach it makes use of my time and opportunities in college and offers me insight that could later prove useful.

At the end of the day I could end up not even making it to SFAS or making it to an ODA and not being a good fit or any variety of other possibilities, but my eagerness to pursue this path is nevertheless one I have carefully considered with the resources available to me at this point in my life. With that in mind, and with the consideration that I will be in college for another 3 years, I have ended at the idea for this club as a tool to make the most of my time. Like you mentioned, my immediate priority is PT, Land Navigation, and other fundamentals and it will remain that way for the next couple years. 

Thank you again for the feedback, it was very much appreciate.


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## BloodStripe (May 30, 2020)

Ogriofa said:


> By the way when you referred to Crane were you referring to the Naval Surface Warefare Centre? If so why?



If you went ROTC you would be able to head down there to shoot. Or based upon you thinking of enlisting (which by the way you don't need to commission out of ROTC as long as you don't take a scholarship), maybe reach out to them and see if you could form some type of partnership with them and the school. It would be difficult but may not be impossible.


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## Ogriofa (May 30, 2020)

@BloodStripe ok I see what you mean now. 

I did some research on my school ROTC page yesterday. For the Army ROTC at IU I would typically be tied to the Officer track after the first two years. I’ve also already missed the first year so I would have to take a summer camp that has an accelerated program. It’s certainly possible but not the most ideal.

I think your second idea of trying to form a partnership is solid. I haven’t considered that, but thinking about it now it might be possible. I know a few guys in the ROTC program who I can reach out to ask about the possibility so I’ll be doing that today. My guess is that I’ll probably be able to join their morning PT and some of the ruck but that will probably be the sum of it. I am also going to ask one of my buddies about the ROTC classes and labs he did first year. I might be able to take the Lower level classes without committing.

As for schools, participation is far less likely. The ROTC programs have to shell out funds to send us to schools, and they are extremely competitive.To make sure they win on their investment it seems IU ROTC limits attending schools to juniors and seniors, aka already committed guys. That said I’m not missing out too bad. The only schoolS ROTC students can go to are airborne, air assault, and mountain warfare. I have been lucky enough to get my certification in skydiving and will have to do airborne as part of the 18x contract so I’m not missing out on that end. I’ve also done rock climbing in high school which taught me basic rappel techniques. This doesn’t compare to MTNW or AA but it’s something.

Another option which is less ideal but still possible would be to go national guard and then rep63. I’m not nearly as keen on this idea however as I’d rather go active duty.

In conclusion I’m going to see can I take the lower level courses on military leadership and will see can I participate in some of the activities. I’m still going to go ahead with my club idea and am thinking I could recruit some of my ROTC friends into the fold too.

Thanks for the continued feedback!


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## Arf (Jun 1, 2020)

BloodStripe said:


> If you went ROTC you would be able to head down there to shoot. Or based upon you thinking of enlisting (which by the way you don't need to commission out of ROTC as long as you don't take a scholarship), maybe reach out to them and see if you could form some type of partnership with them and the school. It would be difficult but may not be impossible.




NSW sends their weapons guys to Crane. Not 100% sure about SEAL, but we send a lot of SWCC to an armory school out there.


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## BloodStripe (Jun 2, 2020)

Arf said:


> NSW sends their weapons guys to Crane. Not 100% sure about SEAL, but we send a lot of SWCC to an armory school out there.



That's because Crane buys most of the weapons for the Navy and Marine Corps. 

 Additionally, NSW Sniper School is at Camp Atterbury which isn't far from there either.


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## x SF med (Jun 2, 2020)

Ogriofa said:


> I also recognize your critique in that a club would need to admit any applicants and understand that could lead to a diminishing of the club’s mission. In fact one of our Ranger Prospect buddies brought up that very issue and we had a fairly long discussion around it. Our end conclusion was that whilst it would be a risk there are ways to counter the issue.



You will have to abide by the rules of the University, one complaint is an admonition, two an investigation, three a permanent shut down of your club.  any attempt at military discipline, hierarchy, or the damaging of Suzy's feelers will get you in trouble. Just a warning.


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## Archangel27 (Oct 24, 2020)

@Ogriofa  Hey fellow Hoosier!  Glad to see that I'm not alone here!  I don't know if this club is something that you're still interested in pursuing or have been able to bring to fruition, but props on you for starting.



Ogriofa said:


> Another major reason I am confident we could avoid that result is by maintaining a set list/parameter for club activities. When filing as a club at IU you have to submit a constitution that outlines the club’s purpose and limits its activities. By maintaining a very clear cut list of approved club activities we would be able to limit a negative transition. I have also already removed marksmanship from the activties so now most are based around rucking, survival, land navigation, and other barebones skills. These likely won’t appeal much to the LARP/Airsoft communities on campus especially when we already have LARP clubs on campus and a relatively prominent airsoft club off campus.



Speaking from my own personal experience, IUSA can be extremely capricious in how it approves and handles student activities, especially military related ones. @x SF med is very prescient when he says that you will have to make sure that you don't discriminate based on membership rules. 

Personally, the Army ROTC battalion at IU was amazingly friendly to me and actually got me interested in commissioning.  I know that COVID has impacted things, but I hope you're hanging in there and are still motivated.


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