# Thoughts on the Army E-Sports Team?



## RoastedToast (Jan 23, 2019)

For those of you on the Army side I'm interested in your opinions on the whole idea about creating an esports team that is essentially being used as a recruiting mechanism.


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## BloodStripe (Jan 23, 2019)

I think it's a giant waste of resources.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 23, 2019)

Isn't any kind of sports team, e or otherwise, basically just a recruiting tool?


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## RoastedToast (Jan 23, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> Isn't any kind of sports team, e or otherwise, basically just a recruiting tool?


I mean I guess you are right. I think in the wrong eyes it could turn a lot of people away with the whole "they are a bunch of geeks and aren't tough, why should I join" mentality. Oh well, there are two sides to every idea I guess...


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## RoastedToast (Jan 23, 2019)

BloodStripe said:


> I think it's a giant waste of resources.


Just for the purpose of conversion (not taking a side) why do you think that?


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## SpitfireV (Jan 23, 2019)

RoastedToast said:


> I mean I guess you are right. I think in the wrong eyes it could turn a lot of people away with the whole "they are a bunch of geeks and aren't tough, why should I join" mentality. Oh well, there are two sides to every idea I guess...



I would wager most people who think that probably wouldn't be the type to watch e sports.

I mean, I'm a giant geek but even I can't watch it. It's like golf; fine to play but shit to watch.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 23, 2019)

I think it's gay as fuck... But I'm old now.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 23, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> Isn't any kind of sports team, e or otherwise, basically just a recruiting tool?



That's the argument, but there are a LOT of these things out there, and they count against our force cap.  Being in a unit that was just directed to consider the impact of getting dropped to 65% manning, I tend to be skeptical and resentful of this type of thing, especially since I'm unaware of any studies that show X activity creates Y recruiting effect.  Why not slap a National Guard sticker on someone's shirt like they do to NASCAR cars and call it done?  Why does it have to be Soldiers?


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## SpitfireV (Jan 23, 2019)

Marauder06 said:


> That's the argument, but there are a LOT of these things out there, and they count against our force cap.  Being in a unit that was just directed to consider the impact of getting dropped to 65% manning, I tend to be skeptical and resentful of this type of thing, especially since I'm unaware of any studies that show X activity creates Y recruiting effect.  Why not slap a National Guard sticker on someone's shirt like they do to NASCAR cars and call it done?  Why does it have to be Soldiers?



I think that's an equal argument. You could just set up a recruiting booth outside these events too and save on time, money and manpower and possibly have a more direct effect.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 23, 2019)

Well I'll say it wasn't any poster or any other gay shit that influenced me to join. It was nothing more than my mother crying and asking me where to buy a gas mask,  after 9/11...


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## GOTWA (Jan 24, 2019)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Well I'll say it wasn't any poster or any other gay shit that influenced me to join. It was nothing more than my mother crying and asking me where to buy a gas mask,  after 9/11...



It wasn't the gay shit that influenced you; you found that in the Infantry.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 24, 2019)

GOTWA said:


> It wasn't the gay shit that influenced you; you found that in the Infantry.



Yes...?


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## policemedic (Jan 24, 2019)

Esports are video games, right?


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## SpitfireV (Jan 24, 2019)

Yes and cell phones are telephones you don't have to plug into the wall. Also, we have motor horses now.


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## AWP (Jan 24, 2019)

Esports...cool. I have no issues with them and some of those players make BANK.

The military starting an esports team? Uh, no. No, no, no, no, no....No.

Just, no.


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## Gunz (Jan 24, 2019)

Esports could help future drone operators prepare their fingers for battle.


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## Teufel (Jan 24, 2019)

RoastedToast said:


> I mean I guess you are right. I think in the wrong eyes it could turn a lot of people away with the whole "they are a bunch of geeks and aren't tough, why should I join" mentality. Oh well, there are two sides to every idea I guess...



I imagine Army already has great connections into the “tough guy/gal” demographic. I suspect they may be looking at recruiting technically inclined folks who may not be physically gifted for high demand/low density fields like cyber, SIGINT, and electronic warfare.


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## Kakashi66223 (Jan 24, 2019)

My experience.
I remember at one point the offices at a certain MCB used to connect over Basewide network and have a LAN party Half Life1 MP with , talk about morale, we'd shit talk with everyone. Eventually that got shut down because, "I'm not happy, until you're unhappy." Nothing better than the Gunny and LT  cursing you out for trip mine frag.

Army B's back in 2005 hosted many LAN parties, "at the drop of a dime," we'd call quits 2hrs prior to formation. Continued even after I left Germany 2006.

Overall, I'm on the fence on this one.

real life rage quitting, happens alot, getting a dose of real-life Call of Duty and not being able to reset and redo. Nothing like watching your wrestling buddy say "Shits getting too real" while rockets are coming down, while he's fished out 3 mangled cigarettes and lights only 1 while the other 2 just hang out.
Albeit America's Army"game" came out... it was different. In a way AA was a good recruiting conversation ice breaker for indecisive individuals that didn't have a clue what to do with their life. May have put a few junior Audie Murphy's in. If it did, and it was you then mission accomplished.
In a way neither good nor bad, Army can do just about anything, only caveat the team represents the Army as a whole (naked pyramids and whatnot) and I don't see why the Army has to stamp their name on a team of otherwise nondeployable might-as-well-be civy gamers in uniforms.
Not sure if I'm missing the point, but I understand extra visibility gets manpower, but will it get quality manpower?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 24, 2019)

^^^I have no goddamn idea what any of that means...


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## Box (Jan 24, 2019)

Dont these violent video games cultivate the type of personality traits associated with toxic masculinity?

Something smells funny.  Maybe there is a clown nearby.


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## Ranger Psych (Jan 24, 2019)

Teufel said:


> I imagine Army already has great connections into the “tough guy/gal” demographic. I suspect they may be looking at recruiting technically inclined folks who may not be physically gifted for high demand/low density fields like cyber, SIGINT, and electronic warfare.



Ya know, I would have happily donated a testicle to stay in and reclass... but noooooo


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## “The Old Man” (Jan 24, 2019)

Hate fucking clowns


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## 0699 (Jan 24, 2019)

The Marine Corps has (had?) a wrestling team that falls under Recruiting Command.  The people they attracted were wrestlers who wanted to be on the wrestling team.  Very much a self-licking ice cream cone.  The only interaction I had with them was with people who joined the Corps so they could be on the wrestling team, but didn't make the cut and were soured on the Marines because of it.


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## BloodStripe (Jan 24, 2019)

RoastedToast said:


> I mean I guess you are right. I think in the wrong eyes it could turn a lot of people away with the whole "they are a bunch of geeks and aren't tough, why should I join" mentality. Oh well, there are two sides to every idea I guess...



I think we need the best nerds our country has, but not to be playing games. We need the nerds who can defend networks, write code, and hack. Most gamers, in broad terms, can't. We already have events that invite people to hack the Government to target and recruit from.

Building a game, such as America's Army, is a recruitment tool. Paying people to play games is in my opinion not something that is a recruitment tool.


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## Brill (Jan 24, 2019)

Teufel said:


> I imagine Army already has great connections into the “tough guy/gal” demographic. I suspect they may be looking at recruiting technically inclined folks who may not be physically gifted for high demand/low density fields like cyber, SIGINT, and electronic warfare.



Want to hate this so much...can’t cuz it’s true. 

@BloodStripe , for Cyber jobs, many of the skilled candidates aren’t “clearable” and we cannot compete with private sector pay. The result is we attract the JV folks.


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## Brill (Jan 24, 2019)

Ranger Psych said:


> Ya know, I would have happily donated a testicle to stay in and reclass... but noooooo



All that previous RF exposure probably rendered it useless anyway...


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## BloodStripe (Jan 24, 2019)

lindy said:


> Want to hate this so much...can’t cuz it’s true.
> 
> @BloodStripe , for Cyber jobs, many of the skilled candidates aren’t “clearable” and we cannot compete with private sector pay. The result is we attract the JV folks.



Tracking. Which is why I'm okay changing rules for high impact jobs, such as cyber.  Thats a conversation for a different thread, though.


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## compforce (Jan 24, 2019)

BloodStripe said:


> I think we need the best nerds our country has, but not to be playing games. We need the nerds who can defend networks, write code, and hack. Most gamers, in broad terms, can't. We already have events that invite people to hack the Government to target and recruit from.
> 
> Building a game, such as America's Army, is a recruitment tool. Paying people to play games is in my opinion not something that is a recruitment tool.



So...  As one of the people that was in the center of development on America's Army(AA) and privy to a bunch of things.  AA was, I kid you not, the Army's most successful recruiting campaign of all time.  It brought a bigger impact to recruiting over the main 5 years than the 20 year "Be All You Can Be" campaign.  Aside from its other uses (ever wonder how the Army built the virtual shoot houses?) it hit the exact demographic the Army is looking for.  (Faces in the poster are blacked out and nametags blurred as several of them are still active).



Gaming has changed a lot since then.  Now you have a huge audience watching the efforts of a small number of highly skilled gamers as a regular event.  It's not unusual for a gamer to spend twice the time watching others as they do playing.  And they are still in the same demographic aside from a few holdouts like me that are out of recruiting age.  Games like Call of Duty and Battlefield that are eSports capable and which are, as far as they can be, like the real world are a very viable recruiting tool.  Add in targeted advertising that is available in streaming venues like twitch and there's an opportunity to get directly in the faces of potential recruits.  Associated tools like Discord give a chance for the recruiters to directly interact with interested people while the event is happening.

Whether I think it will be successful or not, I think it is certainly worth the attempt.


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## AWP (Jan 24, 2019)

compforce said:


> So...  As one of the people that was in the center of development on America's Army(AA) and privy to a bunch of things.



My old Company Commander, who went on to be the 20th Group commander, probably worked with you. Randy Zeegers.

---

Break, break...who said the gov't shutdown is a bad thing? It brought @lindy and @0699 back to the forum.


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## medicchick (Jan 24, 2019)

lindy said:


> All that previous RF exposure probably rendered it useless anyway...


Only takes one and our daughter is cute.


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## compforce (Jan 25, 2019)

AWP said:


> My old Company Commander, who went on to be the 20th Group commander, probably worked with you. Randy Zeegers.



Yes, he was 20th Group Commander when I was there.  He's one of the people in the blacked out picture.


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## SpitfireV (Jan 25, 2019)

I had great fun with that game so thanks for developing it. I think that was around the time the SF bit came out. 

People used to get upset because I'd be putting down suppressing fire with the M249...that's camping


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## compforce (Jan 25, 2019)

SpitfireV said:


> I had great fun with that game so thanks for developing it. I think that was around the time the SF bit came out.
> 
> People used to get upset because I'd be putting down suppressing fire with the M249...that's camping



I wasn't on the actual dev team.  I was technical lead for SCI who was the hosting company.  I did server side messaging and data analytics for AA:O and AA:SF along with many other top franchises (CoD, BF, Far Cry, UT2K3, etc.)

My favorite was running the M24 on Mountain Pass.  I had a screenshot one time where I got 4 people with one bullet right at the start of the round.  They were screaming hacker at me...

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread


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## Ranger Psych (Jan 25, 2019)

lindy said:


> All that previous RF exposure probably rendered it useless anyway...



Well, the midget was an accident, so I think my idea of canteen cup and 550 did the trick.


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## Gunz (Jan 25, 2019)

AWP said:


> Break, break...who said the gov't shutdown is a bad thing? It brought @lindy and @0699 back to the forum.



If the sheep industry shuts down even @pardus may make an appearance. I named my dog after him and he disappeared.


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## Brill (Jan 25, 2019)

AWP said:


> Break, break...who said the gov't shutdown is a bad thing? It brought @lindy and @0699 back to the forum.



I’m DOD so still “working”; I’m in a staff job and hate it with all my soul. Trying to get back in the field since we haven’t had an international incident in quite a while.

“Drunk American found passed out on President of Rhodesia’s couch...again”


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