# US Gymnastics/ Larry Nassar Scandal



## AWP (Jan 26, 2018)

What a shit show that hasn't received a lot of press. To wit, the former US Gymnastics physician sexually assaulted over 150 women, was convicted for 10, and is already in jail for possessing child pornography. Pretty much every gmember of the US gymnastics team in the last decade plus was assaulted by the trash, some victims were as young as 6.

USAG and Michigan State (Nassar was on staff) knew of the allegations and did nothing. Now it looks like MSU has a long history of sweeping sexual abuse under the rug. This could rival Baylor's scandal.

USA Gymnastics board to quit over abuse

OTL: Spartan secrets extend far beyond Larry Nassar

Disgusting.


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## Kraut783 (Jan 27, 2018)

This has been receiving a ton of press here in Dallas area, pretty jacked up.  The judge clobbered this guy in court.

But yeah, a total shit show.


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## Dame (Jan 27, 2018)

It gets a lot of play in Vegas as well. This was an absolute systemic failure.


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## policemedic (Jan 27, 2018)

It’s worse than Penn State, and people thought that was the end of the world.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> This has been receiving a ton of press here in Dallas area, pretty jacked up.  The judge clobbered this guy in court.
> 
> But yeah, I total shit show.



The judges comments seemed like editorializing and "spotlight Ranger-y" to me.  I also kind of wonder if her personal attacks against the perpetrator, as much as I agree with what she said personally, will open the door to some type of appellate action.


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## Grunt (Jan 27, 2018)

Complete leadership failure. A lot of "leaders" knew what was happening and turned a blind eye to it. They put money and prestige above doing what was right. Had they done the right them, they would have prevented a lot of misery for a lot of people.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> The judges comments seemed like editorializing



^^^
This. 

I watched her and kept thinking:
- she knows she’s on TV 
- she’s channeling her inner Judge Judy
- She’s seen too many episodes of Law&Order


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## Polar Bear (Jan 27, 2018)

Put him in general population.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2018)

Polar Bear said:


> Put him in general population.



Yep. 

Jared from Subway found out what happens to kid diddlers. 

Jared Fogle ‘lucky he's still alive’ after prison beatdown - NY Daily News


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## Marine0311 (Jan 27, 2018)

Polar Bear said:


> Put him in general population.



I'll drink to that.

Leadership failed at every level and they should all resign.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> The judges comments seemed like editorializing and "spotlight Ranger-y" to me.  I also kind of wonder if her personal attacks against the perpetrator, as much as I agree with what she said personally, will open the door to some type of appellate action.



Perhaps. On the other hand, both the doctor and the judge took an oath, and the judge kept hers.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ^^^
> This.
> 
> I watched her and kept thinking:
> ...



Come on, now, her speech was just locker room talk...


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## Kraut783 (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> The judges comments seemed like editorializing and "spotlight Ranger-y" to me.  I also kind of wonder if her personal attacks against the perpetrator, as much as I agree with what she said personally, will open the door to some type of appellate action.



Yeah, there could be an argument made. Even though the judges statements were made at the sentencing part.  A good defense attorney could make an argument saying the judge was bias throughout the case. Not sure of the legal process in that state, but I am betting a life sentence case will get an automatic appeal.


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## racing_kitty (Jan 27, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Yep.
> 
> Jared from Subway found out what happens to kid diddlers.
> 
> Jared Fogle ‘lucky he's still alive’ after prison beatdown - NY Daily News



There’s more to it than that. Littleton has a wing for sex offenders. I should know; Sperm Donor is there. It’s practically Club Med for sex offenders, compared to other joints. Jared had to seriously fuck up to get a beat down there.


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## Marine0311 (Jan 27, 2018)

racing_kitty said:


> There’s more to it than that. Littleton has a wing for sex offenders. I should know; Sperm Donor is there. It’s practically Club Med for sex offenders, compared to other joints. Jared had to seriously fuck up to get a beat down there.



There is no punishment great enough for those sickos.

Except of course painful torture


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## Gunz (Jan 27, 2018)

Some of the Penn State big shots did jail time for covering up for that POS Sandusky. Some MSU staffers will no doubt see the inside of a cell. 

Imagine how the parents of those girls feel. Hell ain't hot enough for that sonofabitch.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2018)

Frank S. said:


> Perhaps. On the other hand, both the doctor and the judge took an oath, and the judge kept hers.



Really?  What part of a judge's oath was upheld by the behavior I described?


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## BloodStripe (Jan 27, 2018)

Polar Bear said:


> Put him in general population.


Read a few days ago they had to already remove him from it.


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## Polar Bear (Jan 27, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> Read a few days ago they had to already remove him from it.


Listen Debbie Doubter, I am having a fantastic day. Got to sleep in to 07:47, Read a thread that made me so happy, I made cereal for the whole family, sat around and read a book, and just woke up from a nap. Not today DD, I have total faith in our penal system.


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## SaintKP (Jan 27, 2018)

_"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell."_

I would like to see him be thrown into general population as much as the next person, but death is too easy for him. He couldn't even face the girls he hurt out of shame. Let him rot in solitary until he can no longer recognize himself.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> Really?  What part of a judge's oath was upheld by the behavior I described?



I don't see that any part of the judge's "behavior" either upholds or negates her oath in any way. That isn't my argument.
Nor is it an argument that the doctor pleaded guilty, because in this calculation, he avoided going to trial and in this we can read what we choose to. However, because he chose not to go to trial, I doubt this goes to appellate action. I wish it did in a way because a trial may uncover many more accomplices and perpetrators. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

And rather than launch into bromides about "absolute power", I'd say this (to me) is a major instance of corruption made worse by Nassar's status and position, it exemplifies one of the main causes of social injustice, the kind that the justice system is designed to redress but often fails to because of human nature's foibles, weaknesses and malice.

Which brings me to the judge. I'm glad you personally agree with much of what she said, though I myself don't. I read an article on *Vox *penned by a public defender arguing the judge crossed a line by positioning herself as a victims' advocate during the sentencing proceedings and in this way "reinforced the dangerous idea that judges can and should be in sync with public sentiment."

But at the same time, the author is "not challenging whether the sentence Aquilina imposed was the right call".

The times are challenging, we can bemoan the power of #courtofpublicopinion and link this case to #metoo, activist judges and what have you.

We could argue the impartiality of Aquilina's comments on one side of the scale vs the offenses of Nassar's. But I'll end with this opinion: her handling of the proceedings shed as much light as possible on said offenses, considering that his guilty plea would otherwise limit their exposure. One thing about civilian life I noticed over the years is that no one speaks of resolving issues, they use the term 'addressing' instead. To use a few similar examples to the topic of the thread, after Penn State, Baylor and now this, any attempt at redress is needed, even when uncomfortable.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2018)

Frank S. said:


> I don't see that any part of the judge's "behavior" either upholds or negates her oath in any way. That isn't my argument.
> ... .



I guess I don't understand your argument then, because that is exactly what you said in response to my earlier post.  You specifically said she upheld her oath.  

I wasn't familiar with a judge's oath until you mentioned it, so I looked it up, and no where in there does it appear to say "make the trial and sentencing at least as much about yourself as about the victims, and let your actions potentially open the door for appellate actions." It does, however, say a judge needs to be impartial.  A reasonable person, even a layperson like myself, might draw a conclusion that she wasn't.  If Nasser's defense team uses this as part of an appeal, at a minimum it will cost the government time and money that didn't need to be spent defending something the judge didn't need to do, that wasn't part of her duly-appointed responsibilities.  She could have meted out justice without mixing it with attention-garnering hyperbole.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> If Nasser's defense team uses this as part of an appeal, at a minimum it will cost time and money that didn't need to be spent defending something the judge didn't need to do.



I hope they do, unsure that they can.


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## SaintKP (Jan 27, 2018)

Frank S. said:


> I hope they do, unsure that they can.



I might misinterpreting your statement, but why would you hope Nasser's defense team file an appeal? Just looking for clarification.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

"a trial may uncover many more accomplices and perpetrators."


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## SaintKP (Jan 27, 2018)

I guess reading comprehension is something I should work on a bit.


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## policemedic (Jan 27, 2018)

Marking this for later, because there is a point of order I want to make but need to do a bit of fact checking first since this case didn’t involve the sentencing guidelines I’m familiar with.


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## AWP (Jan 27, 2018)

Her sentencing is probably irrelevant anyway considering in Dec. he picked up 60 years for Federal child porn. They can appeal every day she gave him and he'll still probably die in prison.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2018)

SaintKP said:


> I might misinterpreting your statement, but why would you hope Nasser's defense team file an appeal? Just looking for clarification.



I should have been more clear in my post.  What I wrote made it sound like I was concerned about the time and expense that the defense would incur.  I meant time and expense for the government.  I think Frank was responding to the former when I meant the latter.  I will change my post for clarity.


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## SaintKP (Jan 27, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> I should have been more clear in my post.  What I wrote made it sound like I was concerned about the time and expense that the defense would incur.  I meant time and expense for the government.  I think Frank was responding to the former when I meant the latter.  I will change my post for clarity.



You're fine, I was referring to Frank's post. I had forgotten that he had wished that it would go to a trial so that other people possibly involved might be uncovered and that was what he was referencing in his last post.


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## Grunt (Jan 27, 2018)

Judges make those types of statements multiple times a day in trials throughout the nation that are never seen through any type of media coverage.

I can't tell you the times I have heard judges tell the subjects exactly what they think of them. It happens all the time.


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## policemedic (Jan 27, 2018)

First, in practical terms @AWP is likely right.  The federal sentence will probably render debate over the state sentence moot.

Second, Aquilina’s sentencing will stand.

It’s true she was a little long winded in her sentencing but she didn’t say anything that pointed to any bias on her part.  Oratory from judges is not uncommon in major cases.  In any case, neither she nor a jury under her charge had to weigh facts in this case.  He pled.

When someone pleads guilty, they lose a number of very important rights.  Essentially, they lose virtually all their appeal rights, outside of what Michigan refers to as a Ginther appeal (ineffective counsel).  I doubt Nassar can make that argument.  Even Aquilina commented on the quality of his representation.

As to the length of the sentencing she imposed the key is to understand that while a particular offense may be graded a certain level (felony of the 2nd degree, for example) it is often not sentenced in accordance with the statutory penalty for a like offense.  Rather, sentencing guidelines are used that take into account prior history, offense severity, and many other factors.  Crimes are essentially given scores that are combined with other scores and a matrix is used to compute a sentence.

However, there are crimes with mandatory minimums.  Nassar was charged with many counts of Criminal Sexual Conduct 1st Degree, as well as other crimes.  Just that one used to carry a 25 year minimum, but apparently the guidelines were recently revised to allow judges to give a _reasonable_ sentence.  Nota bene, reasonable could well mean more than 25 years once everything is taken into account.

Given the number of counts he was charged with, his attitude, the number of victims, and his history I have no doubt Judge Aquilina discharged her duty to the people of Michigan properly.

Fuck this asshole.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jan 27, 2018)

policemedic said:


> When someone pleads guilty, they lose a number of very important rights. Essentially, they lose virtually all their appeal rights,



Wow.  I did not know that.


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## Frank S. (Jan 27, 2018)

@policemedic thank you for the informative post, it ties several of my loose thoughts for me.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2018)

Girlfriend is a graduate of MSU Law...she's not happy.  But my big question with this is why they did not seek the federal death penalty?


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## Dame (Jan 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> Girlfriend is a graduate of MSU Law...she's not happy.  But my big question with this is why they did not seek the federal death penalty?


I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not but I'll bite.
1. There is no federal death penalty for child porn.
2. With a 60 year sentence it's life in prison.
3. Even if the abuse charges were federal (not state) it is still not a capital offense.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2018)

Based on the victim statements during sentencing...I wouldn't call that abuse.  I'd call that Rape.

Just my opinion.


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> Girlfriend is a graduate of MSU Law...she's not happy.  But my big question with this is why they did not seek the federal death penalty?



What kind of law does she practice ?


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2018)

That's irrelevant, it's not her question.  It was my question, not hers.  The point of the qualifier was to say that this strikes pretty close to home.  She's also a Baylor Alumna, another shit show.


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> Based on the victim statements during sentencing...I wouldn't call that abuse.  I'd call that Rape.
> 
> Just my opinion.



As @Dame very correctly noted, these were state charges.  Even if they were federal, sex crimes are not capital offenses.


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## policemedic (Jan 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> That's irrelevant, it's not her question.  It was my question, not hers.  The point of the qualifier was to say that this strikes pretty close to home.  She's also a Baylor Alumna, another shit show.



Oh, so that’s it. I thought she had a professional disagreement.


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## Andoni (Jan 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> Based on the victim statements during sentencing...I wouldn't call that abuse.  I'd call that Rape.
> 
> Just my opinion.



Rape and associated sexual crimes are heavily impacted by semantics and terms, run the gamut and vary widely. 

I got this all into writing but wasn't fast enough to post it before more comments. 

Here is some background regarding definitions:   

As far as the term "Abuse" vs "Rape",  the death penalty and Federal Statuary Sentencing Guidelines for sex offenses:  rape falls under "Offenses Against the Person: Assault with Intent to Commit Sexual Abuse." 

"Abuse" is a general term that criminal law and Federal Law defines several ways and includes "sexual abuse". 

To me, "abuse" always sounds too mild for rape, but regarding Federal Statuary Sentencing, and Sex Offenses, it is accurate. 

In December 2011 DOJ updated the definition of rape for the purpose of Use-of-Force reporting by agencies to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) Summary Reporting System (SRS). For reporting purposes, "Historical rape" refers to the old definition of "Forcible Rape". The definition was unchanged since 1927. The "new rape" definition dropped  "forcible", removed gender and added penetration by foreign object. 

From what I briefly read, Nassar's sex crimes were committed under the guise of actual medical procedures including one called a "Pelvic Floor Examination". From what I read, it was absolutely abuse and rape. 

He pled but as I understand it, Nassar continues to say he is only guilty of performing medical procedures and not rape.

Probably more information then most people care to know.

He's a diseased animal that will always be a danger to life. That's my opinion.


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## ThunderHorse (Jan 28, 2018)

I understand where PoliceMedic was going based on his response and educated myself based on the available federal statutes.  Almost all capital crimes involve murder of some kind.  He's going strictly from the Law and not an emotive response, which was what my response was.

But if a Person has over 100 Sexual Assault Victims...


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## SpitfireV (Jan 28, 2018)

If you're discussing points of law emotion needs to be kept out of it. It requires an objective look.


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## Frank S. (Jan 31, 2018)

racing_kitty said:


> Jared had to seriously fuck up to get a beat down there.



One guesses he learned not to tell a customer to pull the salami from his cauliflowered asshole when said customer clearly demanded all the trimmings.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm surprised this does not happen more often.  I watched the video within the story,  Nassar is lucky the cops were able to stop him...

'Give me one minute with that bastard.' Father rushes Larry Nassar after daughters give victim impact statements


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## DocIllinois (Feb 2, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm surprised this does not happen more often.  I watched the video within the story,  Nassar is lucky the cops were able to stop him...
> 
> 'Give me one minute with that bastard.' Father rushes Larry Nassar after daughters give victim impact statements




"Assistant Attorney General Angela Povilaitis, the lead prosecutor, warned the gallery not to repeat Margraves' outburst, saying it's not helping the victims or the community. She told them to use their words, not physical violence.
'You cannot behave like this,' Povilaitis said. 'This is letting him have his power over us.'"

I agree with the AAG.  Dr. Nassar done enough to manipulate people to get his way.

What comes next for him is going to be far, far less pretty than what the dad had planned to do in a locked room for one minute.


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## ThunderHorse (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm pretty sure the only thing that would satisfy the parents of Nasser's victims is him being gelded with a red hot knife.


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## Frank S. (Feb 2, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> I'm pretty sure the only thing that would satisfy the parents of Nasser's victims is him being gelded with a red hot knife.



And cauterize as you cut?
Unimaginative.


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## BloodStripe (Feb 2, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I'm surprised this does not happen more often.  I watched the video within the story,  Nassar is lucky the cops were able to stop him...
> 
> 'Give me one minute with that bastard.' Father rushes Larry Nassar after daughters give victim impact statements


 Throw that man in jail for the night. 



Nassar needs a cell mate.


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## Frank S. (Feb 2, 2018)

It would suck for him to have his asshole stapled back together, not everyone's a fan of 'feeling teeth' and one might use a weight bar right there on the exercise yard to break his coccyx from the inside.

That's an owie.


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## SaintKP (Feb 2, 2018)

Frank S. said:


> It would suck for him to have his asshole stapled back together, not everyone's a fan of 'feeling teeth' and one might use a weight bar right there on the exercise yard to break his coccyx from the inside.


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## Frank S. (Feb 2, 2018)

I dig it.


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## CDG (Feb 3, 2018)

The dad is lucky he was stopped. His daughter has been through enough. Seeing her dad behind bars isn't going to help anything. I get it, but calm the fuck down dude.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2022)

It’s not lost on me that this decision was released on a Friday afternoon of a Holiday weekend while the rest of the news is talking about Texas.
By Tuesday nobody will even be discussing this.  Well played USA, well played.

Senators call decision not to prosecute FBI agents in Larry Nassar case ‘infuriating’

_Two key senators said the decision by the Justice Department not to prosecute FBI agents who did not act on reports of abuse by former USA Gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar was "infuriating."

"FBI agents who knew of Larry Nassar’s abuse, did nothing, and then lied about it will face no legal consequences for their actions," Sens. Richard Blumenthal and Jerry Moran said in a news release. "Dozens of athletes would have been spared unimaginable abuse if these agents had just done their jobs."_

Senators call decision not to prosecute FBI agents in Larry Nassar case ‘infuriating’


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## ThunderHorse (May 27, 2022)

I saw a bunch of stuff trending on twitter and didn't dig into it, what's the civil liability of the bureau in this? Because the agents themselves and the bureau should get financially wrecked for their malfeasance.


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## Kaldak (May 27, 2022)

Well played by the DOJ indeed on timing.

But, talk about a bullshit decision. You know of abuse, you actively ignore, and then lie about. So much for the integrity part of the FBI's motto.


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## AWP (May 27, 2022)

Fucking cowards.


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