# Trouble with Thunderbirds Recruiting



## AWP (Feb 20, 2016)

I can't personally vouch for the link, but this blog is run by a retired C-17 squadron commander and does a solid job with fact checking. The email is frightening and falls in line with what many of us have said about integrating women into combat arms and how the military in general is concerned about looks and not results.

General's Email: Air Force Having Trouble Recruiting for Thunderbirds



> The announcement is out and the suspense has passed for the applications for next year’s team, but we have only received 15 applications for the three demonstration pilot positions (#3,#6, and #8 narrator/advance pilot).   While we have several qualified candidates that many of you submitted, I am lacking the depth in talent we’ve seen in previous years and I am lacking in diversity of gender, ethnicity and MDS background.



"Hey, these white guys you're sending me suck but we also need diversity." He isn't asking for talent, he's also looking for diversity which if you're adding that to the requirement does anyone trust "talent" to be the measuring stick?



> Currently 14 white males have applied and zero applicants from the F-15C or F-22.  I understand the Raptors are finally in the fight so many are taking their first chance at combat (ok couldn’t resist) and choosing not to apply.



When he straight-up lists the number of white mails (14 out of 15 according to him) how is this not a call for diversity above all else? The dig at F-22 pilots? Whether a good natured joke or not, let's look at the Colonel's bio:

Biographies : BRIGADIER GENERAL CHRISTOPHER M SHORT



> FLIGHT INFORMATION
> Rating: Command pilot
> Flight hours: More than 3,300
> Combat Hours: 243
> Aircraft flown: T-37, T-38, A/OA-10A/C, F-15E



He has a Silver Star, but 243 hours? He's been in operational unit for something like 5-6 years of the GWOT, but has 243 hours in combat? The SS is impressive, but we also have a Major with over 1000 hours of combat out of her 1600.



> I’d offer that those chosen for the team, do very well in school and promotion competition–often they come in with the record that supports that–*but we have taken very good care of those with excellent records.*



"Become a Thunderbird and you are a made man." If you need some incentive, let's dangle increased pay grades and assignments in front of you. The brazen plug for this perk....Geez.



> As you look out at your wings, I’d also ask you to look at those pilots that may have the ability to reach our audiences that *don’t necessarily look like each of you*.



I know you are all white, so let's find some pilots who aren't white. We need minority recruiting.



> This is the second time I’ve had to get out for additional applicants.



Two years in a row...two consecutive years where recruiting was a problem? Seriously?



> Finally, I don’t expect a huge push of diverse applicants, primarily because our pool isn’t very diverse.  But I need talent on the team as well, and some of the 15 applicants just don’t have the depth of record of our typical competitive applicant.



Ah, diversity. Not the equality we preach, not "excellence in all we do" as part of our core values, but we need diversity and if they are talented, that's awesome too.


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## Teufel (Feb 20, 2016)

Captain Russell’s Silver Star comes as result of his efforts as part of a two-ship F-15E flight that saved the lives of American service members March 4. The two F-15Es were the first aircraft on the scene after a rescue attempt for Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Neil Roberts failed. Petty Officer Roberts was a Navy SEAL who fell from his helicopter amidst enemy ground fire during an insertion into the Shahi Kot Valley region of Afghanistan.

According to the citation, Captain Russell’s flight, call sign Twister 52, made contact with an American ground forward air controlling team that was taking fire from enemy troops 75 meters away. The ground team restricted Twister flight to strafe passes due to a “danger close” condition. This condition meant friendly troops were within minimal risk distances of injury or death from friendly weapons on enemy locations.

“I didn’t realize they had taken so many casualties,” Captain Russell said about his initial reaction to the situation.

Twister flight made six strafe passes while firing 20-mm rounds from an altitude of 1,500 feet over the target area. This was well within the threat zone of small arms fire and surface to air missiles. The ground team reported enemy fire was suppressed on each pass, but requested more passes to kill steadily increasing numbers of reinforced Taliban and al Qaeda forces.

Out of 20-mm ammunition, Twister 51, the aircraft manned by Maj. Chris Short and Lt. Col. Jim Fairchild, became the airborne forward air controller and targeted Captain Russell’s jet on four additional low-altitude strafe passes. Due to radio failure, Twister 51 then passed the tactical lead to Captain Russell’s aircraft. With the ground team’s concurrence, Twister flight began employing laser-guided bombs. The two aircrews attempted to guide each successive bomb closer to enemy forces without injuring American service members. The aircrews were able to drop bombs as close as 200 meters from friendly forces.

Captain Russell and his team remained on station for five hours, two hours beyond the scheduled coverage time, resulting in a combat sortie more than 12 hours long. By inflicting direct losses to enemy forces while subjecting himself to enemy fire, Captain Russell helped pave the way for the eventual rescue of 23 American service members.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 20, 2016)

Wonder what the DFC w/V was for.  Weird that the assignment section of his bio does not show combat deployments.


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## DA SWO (Feb 22, 2016)

Kraut783 said:


> Wonder what the DFC w/V was for.  Weird that the assignment section of his bio does not show combat deployments.



Photo shows a Kosovo Campaign, AFEM, GWOTEM, and an Afghanistan Campaign.
How are Combat Hours recorded?  There is a probability that taking off from Saudi Arabia and flying a round trip to Afghanistan results in a combination of Combat and Combat Support time.
Looks like his NATO Medal is for Bosnia, so he fought both of Clinton's wars, was a Major when 9/11 hit ( which means his deployment for OEF (if he wasn't in-theater already) was his last operational (by that, I mean as aircrew) mission.

2006-2008 he was in the UK, so it's possible he never deployed for OIF.

6 months at Moody pretty much ensured he didn't deploy.

Comparing a Major who has known nothing but war with someone who started the war as a Major isn't a fair comparison.


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## Dame (Feb 22, 2016)

What they don't tell ya is those guys are all like 7' tall.

(Well, at least from down here where I live.)


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## AWP (Feb 22, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Comparing a Major who has known nothing but war with someone who started the war as a Major isn't a fair comparison.



That's fair. He probably didn't catch any, maybe one, of the 6 month deployments. They were probably 90/120 days so he missed when they were at Bagram for a full 6 months.


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## TLDR20 (Feb 22, 2016)

It is probably because the Thunderbirds are a second class aerial demo team who can't even start on time. Every time I have seen them I have been tremendously disappointed. 

If I had to choose between flying an F-22 in combat or an f-15 period, against basically flying around a flagpole in an f-16? I would never choose the latter.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks DA SWO, I have no idea how USAF logs their time.  The only reference I have is my dad during VN. His squadron from  Tuscon, Arizona deployed to Thailand and became part of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing, Ubon, Thailand.  So he did show an overseas assignment with the 8th TFW. But, with the 90 day to 6 months deployments now days...I can see not changing designations.


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## DA SWO (Feb 22, 2016)

Kraut783 said:


> Thanks DA SWO, I have no idea how USAF logs their time.  The only reference I have is my dad during VN. His squadron from  Tuscon, Arizona deployed to Thailand and became part of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing, Ubon, Thailand.  So he did show an overseas assignment with the 8th TFW. But, with the 90 day to 6 months deployments now days...I can see not changing designations.


Hard to justify combat time flying over the Gulf, so a large part of the mission should be considered Combat Support.


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## Gunz (Feb 22, 2016)

I like the Blue Angels better simply because the F18s are so much louder.


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## Devildoc (Feb 23, 2016)

I don't know much about the Thunderbirds, but I know the Blue Angels have had women and "people of color."  And still they seem to get qualified folks.  Maybe the Thunderbirds have as well, I just don't know, but I would _like_ to think that the women and "people of color" are/were there because they happened to be the most qualified and not because of a need to fill a quota.

Anecdotally, I have seen the Thunderbirds maybe a dozen times, like them fine.  I have seen the Blue Angels many, many times...at knife-and-fork school at Pensacola I would get distracted by their fly-bys in training, and became much better at push-ups and mountain climbers because of it.


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## Devildoc (Feb 23, 2016)

Ocoka One said:


> I like the Blue Angels better simply because the F18s are so much _louder. _The roar goes right up through the soles of your boots.



I recall the Blue Angels with the F4, then the A4.  Those Phantoms....you see them miles away from their thick, black exhaust.  And they were LOUD.


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## Red Flag 1 (Feb 23, 2016)

The same for the USAF Thunderbirds, the best shows were when they were flying the F-4's. The sound has never been that good since they transitioned to the F-16 Falcons


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## DA SWO (Feb 23, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> The same for the USAF Thunderbirds, the best shows were when they were flying the F-4's. The sound has never been that good since they transitioned to the F-16 Falcons


Better than the T-38's, but the Phantom was a fucking cool bird.


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## Red Flag 1 (Feb 23, 2016)

I was stationed @ Hahn AFB , Germany; about eight minutes air time from bed guys boarder. While I was there we transitioned from the venerable Phantom to the new F-16 Falcons. From time to time, we would launch a squadron of F-4's off for a month or so of TDY time to Spain. The sound of the F-4's launching was so loud, that phone conversations had to stop until the final aircraft had departed. They were LOUD.


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## Gunz (Feb 23, 2016)

DA SWO said:


> Better than the T-38's, but the Phantom was a fucking cool bird.



The Phantom was the beast


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