# Serving under incompetent Leaders



## NathanRSF (Nov 29, 2015)

Hello,
My question today is as follows, how do you serve under leaders such as Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, ect. What I mean by that is how do you follow and respect them even though all they do is lie, cheat. steal, and mock their way to the top. The thing that is holding me back from joining is the thought of serving under them and people like them.I know that the Military is about the brotherhood. But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.

Thanks Everyone!


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## Marine0311 (Nov 29, 2015)

NathanRSF said:


> Hello,
> My question today is as follows, how do you serve under leaders such as Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, ect. What I mean by that is how do you follow and respect them even though all they do is lie, cheat. steal, and mock their way to the top. The thing that is holding me back from joining is the thought of serving under them and people like them.I know that the Military is about the brotherhood. But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!



Although this area of the forum is a bit outside my lane I will answer.

I had/have my opinions when I was active and now. I would generally keep them to myself or express them to my peers in private.

If what is holding you back is what you said in your closing statements then the military is not for you. I assure you of this.


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## BuckysBadger24 (Nov 29, 2015)

From one civilian to another, come and play in the general discussion box with me.  Read here.  If you hate the boss of a company, and are holding out for him to be replaced, do you really think you'll ever work there?


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## SkrewzLoose (Nov 29, 2015)

You're talking forest (to the nth degree) and trees. We don't serve under the people you mention in your post. They might have a hand in dictating military strategy on a grand scale, but you would be so far removed from their rarefied air that it really shouldn't factor into your decision. The leaders you'll have to "worry" about serving under are the ones in your direct CoC. There are incompetent leaders in the military just like there are in the civilian sector. The biggest difference is, in the military you can't put in a 2 weeks notice if you don't like your boss/job for some reason. 
Just my $.02
YMMV


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## AWP (Nov 29, 2015)

NathanRSF said:


> But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.



Then stay home. No one is making you join. "You pay your money and you take your chances" has been the case since the dawn of time, so if you have an issue with poor leadership then just stay home.


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## policemedic (Nov 29, 2015)

Please don't enlist.


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## Grunt (Nov 29, 2015)

Unfortunately, when you join the military...you don't get the option of picking and choosing which "foreign agenda" you are willing to fight and possibly die for. If that is part of your thinking...the military is not for you. You don't get to pick up your toys and go home when they do something you don't like.

It's a world where one has to wear "big boy" clothes and play by big boy rules. It's called..."Embracing The Suck" and if you can't do it...we don't need you.


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## x SF med (Nov 29, 2015)

Please do not join the military, you will be chaptered in a matter of weeks or months due to your attitude.


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## NathanRSF (Nov 29, 2015)

You guys do have good points. Also, I made it out to seem like I despise and would not take orders from them, not true. But, I just don't know if any politician is trustworthy nowadays. It's not necessarily holding me back per se. But, if this will be a continued probelm then I will not join. I'm not going to be "that guy" that can't do his job because he dosen't agree with their "agendas".


SkrewzLoose said:


> We don't serve under the people you mention in your post. They might have a hand in dictating military strategy on a grand scale, but you would be so far removed from their rarefied air that it really shouldn't factor into your decision. The leaders you'll have to "worry" about serving under are the ones in your direct CoC. There are incompetent leaders in the military just like there are in the civilian sector. The biggest difference is, in the military you can't put in a 2 weeks notice if you don't like your boss/job for some reason.


(First time ever quoting. I hope I did it right) Very true.


Freefalling said:


> "You pay your money and you take your chances"


I like this quote. I'm going to give it some thought. Along with everyone else's post.

All-in-all, I have a lot of stuff to think about. I will continue reading, PT, and finish school. I honestly don't even know why I am concerned or worried about it. Thanks everyone for the feedback. If there is anyhting else please let me know. I need to know when I'm wrong or right. Thanks again!


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## Red Flag 1 (Nov 29, 2015)

Inept leadership reaches into the civillian world too. It reaches in your pocket, messes with your healthcare costs, and what your children are taught in school. Policy is introduced that can decide if your civillian job will continue or not, how much you will be paid, and taxed.  What you say about leadership can get you canned in the civillian world as well. There is no part of your life that is insulated from inept, dishonest, and flat out liars that become elected to public office, all the way to POTUS. All that said, where do you want to work with leadership that you hate? You are cut out for the military, or you are not. Read through our threads. Talk with recruiters, and decide what you want to do with your life


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## NathanRSF (Nov 29, 2015)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Inept leadership reaches into the civillian world too. It reaches in your pocket, messes with your healthcare costs, and what your children are taught in school. Policy is introduced that can decide if your civillian job will continue or not, how much you will be paid, and taxed.  What you say about leadership can get you canned in the civillian world as well. There is no part of your life that is insulated from inept, dishonest, and flat out liars that become elected to public office, all the way to POTUS. All that said, where do you want to work with leadership that you hate? You are cut out for the military, or you are not. Read through our threads. Talk with recruiters, and decide what you want to do with your life


Very very true statement. It is true that not all leaders civilian or military are completely honest or trustworthy but like agoge said:


Agoge said:


> It's a world where one has to wear "big boy" clothes and play by big boy rules. It's called..."Embracing The Suck" and if you can't do it...we don't need you.





Red Flag 1 said:


> Read through our threads. Talk with recruiters, and decide what you want to do with your life


Will do!


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## DocIllinois (Nov 29, 2015)

I second the Troll's post: just don't enlist.  A mindset like the one on display generally doesn't correct itself. 

If you're making these kinds of comments about leadership now, they will reappear with a vengeance if your unit deploys.

You will not enjoy the resulting occupational environment.


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## SpitfireV (Nov 29, 2015)

NathanRSF said:


> Hello,
> My question today is as follows, how do you serve under leaders such as Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, ect. What I mean by that is how do you follow and respect them even though all they do is lie, cheat. steal, and mock their way to the top. The thing that is holding me back from joining is the thought of serving under them and people like them.I know that the Military is about the brotherhood. But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!


 
You don't have to respect them (beyond formalities) but you do have to respect the process with which they came to President.


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## pardus (Nov 29, 2015)

NathanRSF said:


> Hello,
> My question today is as follows, how do you serve under leaders such as Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, ect. What I mean by that is how do you follow and respect them even though all they do is lie, cheat. steal, and mock their way to the top. The thing that is holding me back from joining is the thought of serving under them and people like them.I know that the Military is about the brotherhood. But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!



You sound like one of the douchebags that post anonymous photos of themselves holding pieces of paper saying "I didn't enlist just to fight..." etc...
As others above have said, don't enlist, we don't want or need you.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 30, 2015)

If you are not willing to take/follow orders from the CnC or the officers appointed over you who carry out the CnC's orders, than you have no business taking an oath that you will. I agree with my brethren here, please do not enlist...

ETA: Oath of enlistment.

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God


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## Marauder06 (Nov 30, 2015)

NathanRSF said:


> Hello,
> My question today is as follows, how do you serve under leaders such as Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, ect. What I mean by that is how do you follow and respect them even though all they do is lie, cheat. steal, and mock their way to the top. The thing that is holding me back from joining is the thought of serving under them and people like them.I know that the Military is about the brotherhood. But, if its for one of their stupid foreign policy agendas then I don't feel comfortable with them being my commander-in-chief.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!



As an officer in the US military, I serve the Constitution not the President.  The President is merely the commander in chief, whose lawful orders I am Constitutionally required to obey.  The office, not the person, is what matters.  Whether I like or dislike the sitting President's policies, he is a temporary occupant of the White House.  For better or for worse, "this too shall pass."

I'll also add that as someone who teaches college-level international relations and has been on active duty for more than 20 years, I've found that most people who talk about "stupid foreign policy" aren't really informed enough to go spouting off about it in the first place.  If you enlist as a private, the "foreign policy agenda" that you need to worry about is what those bastards up at squad are up to.


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## Devildoc (Nov 30, 2015)

If you are this concerned about the CINC, how are you going to be if you join and your PL/PC is a moron?  Or the PS plays favorites?


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## NathanRSF (Dec 1, 2015)

Marauder06 said:


> As an officer in the US military, I serve the Constitution not the President. The President is merely the commander in chief, whose lawful orders I am Constitutionally required to obey. The office, not the person, is what matters. Whether I like or dislike the sitting President's policies, he is a temporary occupant of the White House. For better or for worse, "this too shall pass."
> 
> I'll also add that as someone who teaches college-level international relations and has been on active duty for more than 20 years, I've found that most people who talk about "stupid foreign policy" aren't really informed enough to go spouting off about it in the first place. If you enlist as a private, the "foreign policy agenda" that you need to worry about is what those bastards up at squad are up to.


Yeah you're right. I think I let my emotion get the best of me. I see all these stories about these canidates and it gets me mad. I'm going to educate myself further and see where my viewpoint lies.


Diamondback 2/2 said:


> If you are not willing to take/follow orders from the CnC or the officers appointed over you who carry out the CnC's orders, than you have no business taking an oath that you will. I agree with my brethren here, please do not enlist...
> You're right.
> 
> ETA: Oath of enlistment.
> ...


Solid copy. If I'm not meant to serve then I won't.


pardus said:


> You sound like one of the douchebags that post anonymous photos of themselves holding pieces of paper saying "I didn't enlist just to fight..." etc...
> As others above have said, don't enlist, we don't want or need you.


I'm not like that. But, As I have previously said, if I'm not meant to serve then I won't. I just have to do some more researching and ect. Like Marauder06 said, I am probably not educated enough. I'm trying to get there though.


DocIllinois said:


> A mindset like the one on display generally doesn't correct itself.


I agree with you. But, I'm only 16. Have you ever changed your political or moral views ever since you were my age? Not trying to be smart. Just, I think that since I am so young I think I could change my views. I don't know though. Maybe I'm wrong. That's why I joined this site, to get answers.


SpitfireV said:


> You don't have to respect them (beyond formalities) but you do have to respect the process with which they came to President.


True.


Devildoc said:


> If you are this concerned about the CINC, how are you going to be if you join and your PL/PC is a moron? Or the PS plays favorites?


How exactly would I react? I dont know. What I do know is I was taught to shut my mouth whenever your elders or your boss are talking to you. So, I would shut up and embrace the suck. That's what the military is all about, is it not? I just don't want to see someone ruin our country. It's a genuine concern. But, like the one officer said, I'm probably not educated enough. 

 I also appologize if I gave of the wrong vibe about me. I'm not an arrogant fool that thinks I know it all. I can assure you that. My initial post was based off of anger about some of the stories I have been reading about the canidates. I appologize about that. I was blessed with great parents who taught me how to respect others. Especially my elders and my bosses. If I were to join, I can assure you that I would fulfil my duty to the highest level. No questions asked. But, if I can't change then I won't join. I'm not so stubborn to not listen to what 14 people (I believe at least 12 are veterans) are saying to me. 

Thanks Again!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 1, 2015)

Dude, I didn't know you're 16. Stop thinking about politics and go chase girl's (lots of girl's) and do normal highschool stuff. Plenty of time to form political views when you are old enough to vote, and if you're smart, you will change your views as you grow and experience life.


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## Gunz (Dec 1, 2015)

Hey kid.  You're not old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes.


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## AWP (Dec 1, 2015)

Unless I'm wrong this thread has nothing left to offer the world.


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