# 1400 Year History of Islam in 15 minutes



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 4, 2017)

This video of Brigitte Gabriel is fascinating. I don't know enough about Islam to know if all of her facts are correct, but what I do know are in agreement with what she says.  Very interesting, especially the 9/11 reference and note about the Iran Deal.

She is a very brave woman to speak like this.


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## CQB (Feb 5, 2017)

She is generally on the money. It must have seemed God was on the side of Muhammed when the faithful converted large portions of Iraq & Iran. IMO some of her Arafat & Iran opinion I  differ with as it is too complex to address in the time available to her.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Feb 5, 2017)

Yeah, she is awesome!!!

I know this VID is already on here somewhere, but throwing it in here:


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## CQB (Feb 6, 2017)

Valid points, there may be a couple of reasons that more Muslims don't speak out but one I've personally heard of is the ones that do speak out get a knock on the door from a couple of hair suit gentlemen and are told to desist, or their peaceful life may change.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 6, 2017)

CQB said:


> Valid points, there may be a couple of reasons that more Muslims don't speak out but one I've personally heard of is the ones that do speak out get a knock on the door from a couple of hair suit gentlemen and are told to desist, or their peaceful life may change.



You talking about ASIO or AFP knocking on the door?


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## CQB (Feb 6, 2017)

No, I'm talking about Islamists paying a visit to a moderate Muslim household to make sure their path is the right one. The internal constraints can be daunting, particularly for those who nominate to leave Islam altogether and convert to another religion of their choice.


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## Kraut783 (Feb 6, 2017)

CQB said:


> No, I'm talking about Islamists paying a visit to a moderate Muslim household to make sure their path is the right one. The internal constraints can be daunting, particularly for those who nominate to leave Islam altogether and convert to another religion of their choice.



Gotcha, understand and agree...same issue here in Texas. There are a lot of Muslims that are Americans and call out the bad side.....but they catch a lot of flack for it.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 6, 2017)

What's mind blowing to me, is that people can hear this stuff and still think we should be playing nice with the Muslim world. 

I don't think anyone should have to feel ashamed about their religion or that they would feel they need to hide it. I actually prefer to know, who is what and believes in what. But when a religion as a whole, encourages their followers to convert, kill or enslave all nonbelievers, I think it's worth an honest talk of are we as the human race, going to tolerate it, and if so for how long, and why?

As dangerous as my post reads and as much of a contradiction it is to American values. I'd personally like to have that debate, if that's even possible.

Should Islam be classified as a religion? Due to the political, legal and govermental requirements of Islam. Should it or should it not be tolerated in a modern society? 

I mean Islam runs about a 180 degrees the other direction than rest of the modern world, but I would bet is causing upwards of 75% the problems around the world.

I mean we're talking about the world here, and not just western societies.


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## CQB (Feb 6, 2017)

I personally feel it needs to reform & the process we see now could be part of their own Reformation which the west had some time ago. The reforming voices are at times drowned out as they don't make exciting headlines. The reform if it happens, will have to come from within Islam or a Muslim entity & not be assisted or imposed by us, the filthy west. For an eye opener, check the Enhadha Party in Tunisia who have separated mosque & state, that alone is remarkable in itself & is a look at whats possible.


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## SpitfireV (Feb 7, 2017)

Turkey did quite well up until recently too.

I like your point about it not being assisted by the West. I think any kind of help at all will suddenly give rise to conspiracy theories and a lack of faith in the process (pun fully intended, heh).


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## racing_kitty (Feb 7, 2017)

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is another reformer that bears watching.  When he first came to power after the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood, he gave an awesome speech that touched on Islam being more than just a little overdue for a reformation.  I had shared part of it here a while back, but I don't have time to find it (if that thread hasn't been deleted).  

I also agree that the West can't have fuck all to do with it; this is something that they have to figure out for themselves.  Let them come into their own, or destroy themselves in the process and hope that something better arises from it.


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## Devildoc (Feb 7, 2017)

racing_kitty said:


> Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is another reformer that bears watching.  When he first came to power after the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood, he gave an awesome speech that touched on Islam being more than just a little overdue for a reformation.  I had shared part of it here a while back, but I don't have time to find it (if that thread hasn't been deleted).
> 
> I also agree that the West can't have fuck all to do with it; this is something that they have to figure out for themselves.  Let them come into their own, or destroy themselves in the process and hope that something better arises from it.



They need their version of Martin Luther, however that looks.  But that's gonna take guts.  You are right, they have to do it themselves, and we ("the west") just needs to steer clear.


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## AWP (Feb 7, 2017)

I think it was the King/ Sheikh of the UAE who came out once and said his nation was fighting ISIS/ISIL/ Whateverthefuckwecallitthesedays because it was a fight for Islam's survival. Good sound bite and all, but "deeds not words" and all that. 

If the religion is to reform and not remain a target of the West, it needs to happen internally....and we need to stay the hell out of the war that will result.


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## Viper1 (Feb 7, 2017)

racing_kitty said:


> Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is another reformer that bears watching.  When he first came to power after the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood, he gave an awesome speech that touched on Islam being more than just a little overdue for a reformation.  I had shared part of it here a while back, but I don't have time to find it (if that thread hasn't been deleted).
> 
> I also agree that the West can't have fuck all to do with it; this is something that they have to figure out for themselves.  Let them come into their own, or destroy themselves in the process and hope that something better arises from it.


Another country to watch is Jordan. They are a beacon of light in the region, and I might some of their officers who are quite enlightened.


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## CQB (Feb 7, 2017)

Their current King is a Sandhurst graduate.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 7, 2017)

Viper1 said:


> Another country to watch is Jordan. They are a beacon of light in the region, and I might some of their officers who are quite enlightened.


I was very impressed with Jordan during a short visit there in the late 1990s.  Of the (admittedly small number of) Arab countries I've visited, Jordan seemed to be the only one that kind of had their act together.


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## Viper1 (Feb 7, 2017)

CQB said:


> Their current King is a Sandhurst graduate.


Yes, and his sons will be as well. He has Hashemite lineage (direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammed). As @Marauder06 said, they have their stuff together. The King and government are aggressively enticing foreign investment from tires to fiber optic cable. The highways are in better condition than SC roads. Majority of homes have electricity. Their Army is quite professional and competent, having strong relationships with U.S., Canada, U.K., etc. I'd feel comfortable going into battle with them.


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## CQB (Feb 8, 2017)

A plus is that Queen Noor is American born. The only fly in the ointment is that King Abdullah has to deal with Palestinians, who were taken in last century on humanitarian grounds & now represent a significant portion of the population.


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## CQB (Feb 13, 2017)

CQB said:


> No, I'm talking about Islamists paying a visit to a moderate Muslim household to make sure their path is the right one. The internal constraints can be daunting, particularly for those who nominate to leave Islam altogether and convert to another religion of their choice.



Comme ca! 

Australian Muslim leaders targeted in Islamic State propaganda video


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 2, 2017)

I've seen this woman on the late-night cable channels.  Pretty brave woman....


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## racing_kitty (Mar 2, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I've seen this woman on the late-night cable channels.  Pretty brave woman....



She's been a target for years.  Not only did she have the utter gall to leave the faith, but she became an atheist.  That really pissed off her former coreligionists.


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## CQB (Mar 3, 2017)

Ayan Hershi Ali is on point and has been for quite a while. Muslim reformers don't really grab headlines but there's a few more out there, including here where I am. A terror attack will sell more newspapers than an complex religious argument. correct me here but isn't she married to Niall Fergerson who is a historian of note.


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