# ARSOF Recruiting MI Briefs



## Brill (Jan 31, 2012)

Attached are the powerpoint briefs.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for that Lindy.

Where is the part where it talks about the screening/assessment process you have to go through before you join an SF Group as an enabler?  ;)


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## CDG (Feb 1, 2012)

On slide #8, left side, under "Languages" I believe it should be "immersion" as opposed to "emersion". 

Great briefing!  You sure you don't want to complicate it some more?  Throw in a flow chart or something?


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

This is for the RSTB in the 75th RR.


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Thanks for that Lindy.
> 
> Where is the part where it talks about the screening/assessment process you have to go through before you join an SF Group as an enabler? ;)


 
For SOT-As it's actually in the works.  They've had two "classes" so far.


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## CDG (Feb 1, 2012)

lindy said:


> This is for the RSTB in the 75th RR.


 
On slide #10, 4th bullet point down, it says "Exempt from DA assignments".  What does DA stand for?


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## Boon (Feb 1, 2012)

CDG said:


> On slide #10, 4th bullet point down, it says "Exempt from DA assignments". What does DA stand for?


 
It's the Army assignments like recruiter or drill sergeant.


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## CDG (Feb 1, 2012)

Boon said:


> It's the Army assignments like recruiter or drill sergeant.


 
Ah.  Thanks.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

CDG said:


> On slide #10, 4th bullet point down, it says "Exempt from DA assignments". What does DA stand for?





Boon said:


> It's the Army assignments like recruiter or drill sergeant.


 
DA literally means "Department of the Army," it's in reference to assignments like the ones Boon mentioned.  Since you can be selected or "voluntold" for some of these assignments, being in a position except from such assignments could be attractive to some.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

lindy said:


> For SOT-As it's actually in the works. They've had two "classes" so far.


 
I'm glad SOTAs are taking the lead.  Although, I wonder if they're the ones who actually need it the least, since SOTA seems to be a somewhat self-selecting MOS in and of itself.  And IIRC, the SOTA program is only for people who are _already_ assigned to Group.  It would be good if USASFC would finally develop something to screen people BEFORE they came down on orders.


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## tigerstr (Feb 1, 2012)

Great info. In this context maybe some will find interesting the MARSOC equivalent as can be found here in their site

They now have an almost standardised initial “SOF-Support” training course (Special Operations Training Course-STC), but I am not sure if it is 8.5 weeks as stated in this page or less, as stated in another page of the site. 

STC plus 3 weeks of SERE and 4-6 weeks of a MARSOF Intel “foundation” course, is presented as the “pipeline” for all Intel MOSs getting in MARSOC

And then 4-6 weeks more training, which is diversified according to the particular MOS. 


All in all, they get from 17-19 weeks of training in total and a secondary MOS (NMOS) as a “Special Operations Capability Specialist”.

Marines seem to place special importance on their SOF-Support (especially Intel- they created an Intel Battalion) with some spokesmen of MARSOC publicly mentioning that their longer term goal is to thin the line between “operators” and direct support members as much as possible-even in the selection process.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

Maybe it's my browser, but when I clicked on the "intel" tab in the page you linked to, it comes back blank.


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## tigerstr (Feb 1, 2012)

I tried again myself the link is good but, I think they are having some problems with marines.mil in general these days. Took me a while to see it.

Anyway this is whats in the page. Took me some time but I managed to  copy it in a .ppt file.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

Nice.   Thanks for going through the trouble to extract that and post it up.

That training pipeline far exceeds any enabler training program for any SOF unit I've been assigned to.  Good on MARSOC.


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

Actually, SF MI support would mirror the Radio Recon Platoon within Radio Battalion.


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## surgicalcric (Feb 1, 2012)

They got the languages for both 19th and 20th Group(s) wrong...  As well as our DTAs.


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## tigerstr (Feb 1, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Nice. Thanks for going through the trouble to extract that and post it up.


 
You are welcome 


Marauder06 said:


> That training pipeline far exceeds any enabler training program for any SOF unit I've been assigned to. Good on MARSOC


 
I totally agree. Judging from various comments made by MARSOC officers, it also has to do with Marines proving they bring something different, an area of expertise so to speak,  in the SOF table.

Meaning the "MAGTF" concept of integrally task organised and "expeditionary" elements even at the lowest tactical level and the "every Marine a rifleman" mentality, this time in the higher level of a SOF context.

Something like "Every MARSOC Marine specially trained" in lack of better wording.


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> They got the languages for both 19th and 20th Group(s) wrong... As well as our DTAs.


 
They changed after this was made (we just found out in Oct).


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

lindy said:


> Actually, SF MI support would mirror the Radio Recon Platoon within Radio Battalion.


 
Are you talking all of the SF enablers or just SOTAs?


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Are you talking all of the SF enablers or just SOTAs?


 
Radio Recon Marines are MOS 26XX (same as our 35 series guys).  Their pipeline is normally DLI or Correy Station, Goodfellow, Rad Bn where they try out for Radio Recon.  Their program is light years ahead of ours and get infil/exfil via any method whereas we're pretty much ruck, truck, or oh ffffffffuuuuuuudddddgggggeeeeee.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 1, 2012)

So radio recon Marines is intel writ large?  That's good to know, I thought they were only SIGINTers.


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> So radio recon Marines is intel writ large? That's good to know, I thought they were only SIGINTers.


 
I'm not 100% sure but thought HUMINTers could volunteer too.  I'll ask at work tomorrow.


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 1, 2012)

They're SIGINT.

The SOT-A course has run 3 classes thus far I believe. 

A few more were scheduled for after Feb. but I have heard RUMINT that it was stopped...Lindy?


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## Brill (Feb 1, 2012)

MilkTruckCoPilot said:


> They're SIGINT.
> 
> The SOT-A course has run 3 classes thus far I believe.
> 
> A few more were scheduled for after Feb. but I have heard RUMINT that it was stopped...Lindy?


 
WHAT THE...

I'll hit up "the man" tomorrow.  I sure hope you're wrong.


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## surgicalcric (Feb 2, 2012)

lindy said:


> Their program... get infil/exfil via any method whereas we're pretty much ruck, truck, or oh ffffffffuuuuuuudddddgggggeeeeee.


 
SOT-As no more need MFF or CDQC than a light wheeled mechanic or armorer in Group needs ABN.  The same holds true for the Marines who do the same job, IMHO.  

However if you hang around the right ODAs you may pickup a slot or two to HAVEACE .  lol


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## moobob (Feb 2, 2012)

One of the byproducts of the creation of the 18 series MOS was that SOT-As became support guys. Part of their mission set requires the ability to infil into denied areas on their own and operate independently. The slot is still Victor coded, but that has become more or less irrelevant.

You won't find a ton of info about SIGINT in the Vietnam era because the fact there was even a SIGINT MOS was classified at the time. There are some veteran websites out there. The predecessors to SOT-A were Green Berets. There were SIGINT guys with MACV/SOG, doing typical SF tasks for the time like training and combat advising indig forces in addition to their SIGINT duties. Most of these guys had been through SF qualification, and those that weren't were expected to go.

Somewhere along the way, someone decided there didn't need to be intense screening of SIGINT personnel assigned to Group. Even without a selection process, it is still rare to see SOT-As manned at greater than 60%, which I'd theorize is part of why there isn't a selection process. There are a few SOT-As running around that, from being in other organizations, have more "SOF" training and experience than most SF guys, but returned to Group for various reasons i.e. burnout. The optempo in SF is pretty crazy, but there are other places where it's busier. The perception an average SF dude that doesn't know the guy personally would have of these guys is not positive, and that in itself is not a good thing. Something really needs to be done about SF support, especially MI, but we've already beaten that horse to death..

http://www.mikeforcehistory.org/timeline/date.asp?date=8/23/1968


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 2, 2012)

The ASA (Army Security Agency) also had it's own seperate training facilities. Something I've been hoping would come to fruition with SOT-A or atleast see a specific school tailored to meet it's needs....Goodbuddy doesn't cut it. I had hoped the new school (SOFSIET) would be it, but I'm unsure of it's future. 

The SOD's were ASA's Special Operations Detachment ( SOT-A predecessors) which as Moobob pointed out were often attached to MACV/SOG and Special Forces. 

A good read about them is Top Secret Missions by John E. Malone.


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## Brill (Feb 2, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> SOT-As no more need MFF or CDQC than a light wheeled mechanic or armorer in Group needs ABN. The same holds true for the Marines who do the same job, IMHO.
> 
> However if you hang around the right ODAs you may pickup a slot or two to HAVEACE . lol


 
I strongly disagree brother.  To be blunt, MFF is just a way to get to work (yes, there is more to it than just Newton's discovery).


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## surgicalcric (Feb 2, 2012)

lindy said:


> I strongly disagree brother. To be blunt, MFF is just a way to get to work (yes, there is more to it than just Newton's discovery).


 
So as not to derail the thread follow the link for more on this and other exciting new comments from Crip... 

http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/threads/need-for-advanced-infil-techniques.13152/


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## MilkTruckCoPilot (Feb 4, 2012)

Off topic...


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