# The self identity thread.



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 17, 2016)

Starting this with this video, but have some opinions I will share a little later tonight. Figured it a good topic to discuss, given some of the other threads on here...


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## metalmom (Apr 17, 2016)

It is a great vid and topic.I am thankful the existing generation has it right for the most part.


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## DocIllinois (Apr 17, 2016)

Its not a great video but I couldn't stop laughing at the "presenter."

Here's another video that will cause laughter, to include an idiot admitting that he would've entered a high school women's shower if he had been given the chance.


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## metalmom (Apr 17, 2016)

Thought it was a great vid.The host-brilliant and made me laugh.The weatherman who didnt get it was funny as well as the host talking about P Diddy.
Pushing that aside-did I hear 41 percent suicide rate?


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 18, 2016)

Political Correctness has taken over, on just about any topic you can name. Unlike the students in the OP Vid, it's not , like,....a.... you know....OK with me. Who in the hell is writing the rules for PC? I can't help but come away from the OP vid without thinking of:  



 which makes more sense than the undergrads answers in the OP.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

I thought the video I posted outlined the complete and total disconnection from reality until it got so outlandishly bazaar, the student's were literally forced to back pedal from this "oh I'll just blindly accept anything you say without challenge" mentality. The "presenter" in the video I posted also had an excellent point, of if this is our next generation of leaders and they cannot even navigate through questions as simple as "no you are not a 6'5" Chinese woman, you're a 5'9 white guy", what will happen when they are forced to read, cipher, analyze and provide opinion on professional aspects of life? 

I think this has gotten way out of hand, there was a line somewhere that got run over in the past few years that has just completely tossed reality out the window. You know, reality, here on earth, the real world, where any dummy of any third world country can say "nope you're not a Chinese 6'5" woman, you're a short American white dude". I mean it's pretty damn silly.

That said the second video was funny, and I enjoy sarcasm and the silliness. Made a few great points, I don't have time to fact check a lot of what was quoted as stats, so I will say the it was interesting and eye opening, for now.

The leader of the black lives matter movement is a white man posing as a black man. That's reality, not a lack of acceptance of his identity, what I don't accept is the lie that he is black. The same can be said about the countless other people who are caught in their lies. If I said I self identify as WW2 Congressional Medal of Honor awardee Audie Murphy, nobody would accept that, one its not true, two its against the law, and three its fucking wrong. So why accept only some lies and not all? 

I think people need to be held accountable to reality, if you're 16 years or older play and pretend time is over.


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## Devildoc (Apr 18, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> The leader of the black lives matter movement is a white man posing as a black man. That's reality, not a lack of acceptance of his identity, what I don't accept is the lie that he is black. The same can be said about the countless other people who are caught in their lies. If I said I self identify as WW2 Congressional Medal of Honor awardee Audie Murphy, nobody would accept that, one its not true, two its against the law, and three its fucking wrong. So why accept only some lies and not all?
> 
> I think people need to be held accountable to reality, if you're 16 years or older play and pretend time is over.



Yup, yup, and yup.  Not unlike Rachel Dolezal, the white woman with white parents who became some muckity-muck with the NAACP and identified as "African-American."  Please.

This whole notion of "the truth is what I say it is" is utterly ridiculous, and always leads to the inevitable slippery slope.


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 18, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I thought the video I posted outlined the complete and total disconnection from reality until it got so outlandishly bazaar, the student's were literally forced to back pedal from this "oh I'll just blindly accept anything you say without challenge" mentality. The "presenter" in the video I posted also had an excellent point, of if this is our next generation of leaders and they cannot even navigate through questions as simple as "no you are not a 6'5" Chinese woman, you're a 5'9 white guy", what will happen when they are forced to read, cipher, analyze and provide opinion on professional aspects of life?
> 
> I think this has gotten way out of hand, there was a line somewhere that got run over in the past few years that has just completely tossed reality out the window. You know, reality, here on earth, the real world, where any dummy of any third world country can say "nope you're not a Chinese 6'5" woman, you're a short American white dude". I mean it's pretty damn silly.
> 
> ...



I do have to agree with you, to a point.  I wish just one, just one; would have said, "You are full of shit. Get away from me."


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## DocIllinois (Apr 18, 2016)

Our friend Joseph in the OP is using a straw man argument, with shades of argument from incredulity.

Gender Dysphoria is an actual, diagnosable medical condition.

Believing you're another race or height that you aren't is delusion.

Believing that Joseph didn't purposely choose to question college students (people who will likely be unpracticed at finding logical holes in arguments) is self delusion.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

Something that I left out and think is important on the acceptance aspects of self identity. That is cultural identity, if you're white and grew up or spent significant time in a Hispanic culture, speak and dress the part, I absolutely accept that and any other combination of the same example. Just don't tell me your Hispanic, you're still white, well cultured in Hispanic culture but that doesn't allow you take someone else's ethnic identity.

Take Shuan King the BLM leader who posed as a half white half black man when he was white. It's obviously apparent to me he has dated black women and spent sometime within the black community and culture. If he would have been honest with people, people like me wouldn't have dismissed him completely as a fraud. M&M is white, and arguably the best rap artist, but he never claimed to be black, he was honest and that allows me to respect him for his talent and success, even though I may not be into his specific music.

Another example is here in Texas, just about everyone wears or at least own a pair of cowboy boots. Many wear cowboy hats, belt buckles and dress cowboys. That fine and totally acceptable here, but when that person starts to tell lies and claim to be an actual cowboy, the actual cowboy culture has a problem with it. There are reasons for this, a code of life, how to treat a woman, showing elders respect, respecting another man and his property, mannerisms, etc. When someone claims to be a cowboy and misrepresents the cowboy culture, it takes away from the culture and cheapens the meaning and way of life. Now this is different than trying to fake the funk with ones ethnicity as anyone of any ethnicity can be a cowboy, I know one half Korean/hispanic dude that's more of a cowboy than I ever was. But he also grew up on a ranch, rodeos, and lives by the code. He didn't just hit the local Cavanders and buy a few outfits and run around telling people he is a cowboy, he earned his place and he is absolutely accepted and anyone who doesn't or runs their mouth gets straighten out quickly.

I feel the same way about military service and posers, when people have to work hard and earn their way into a community or culture, its cheapened by people who lie about being apart of it and misrepresent it, and its just morally wrong.

$.02


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

DocIllinois said:


> Our friend Joseph in the OP is using a straw man argument, with shades of argument from incredulity.
> 
> Gender Dysphoria is an actual, diagnosable medical condition.
> 
> ...



For the sake of debate, if Gender Dysphoria is a mental health issue, wouldn't Race Dysphoria (if you will) be the same? What about Superhero Dysphoria, should that be treated with a superman costume a cape and a "sure you can fly, jump off this roof". 

And yes I know that's silly as hell, as much as I think someone with a mental health problems of Gender Dysphoria, being able to medical remove their sex organs and lie to people.


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## DocIllinois (Apr 18, 2016)

Both of those examples would be delusions.

That is, unless any psych on this board knows a dark corner of the DSM-V which classifies Race and Superhero Dysphoria, which I would be surprised by.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

So a dude who thinks he is a chick is not delusional, but a white guy who thinks he is black would be? Gonna run that by my wife as she is the one with the master's degree in psychology, but that just seems a bit odd.


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## Salt USMC (Apr 18, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Take Shuan King the BLM leader who posed as a half white half black man when he was white. It's obviously apparent to me he has dated black women and spent sometime within the black community and culture. If he would have been honest with people, people like me wouldn't have dismissed him completely as a fraud. M&M is white, and arguably the best rap artist, but he never claimed to be black, he was honest and that allows me to respect him for his talent and success, even though I may not be into his specific music.


Can I just take some time to point out how nakedly racist this controversy is?  For one, this is Shaun King





This is Shaun King in High School






I don't know about you, but he looks like a light-skinned black guy to me.  But Breitbart, paragon of journalistic integrity that it is, chose to go with this sweet desaturated picture from a CNN interview






Now, it should come as no surprise that conservative media absolutely loathes BLM, and by extension, its proponents.  But instead of constructively addressing the stated points of the group's platform, they take cheap shots and assassinate the character of the movement's proponents.  The message here is "This guy isn't really black.  Therefore, his lived experiences, including the well-documented hate crimes that he experienced during childhood, are invalid, and so is his advocacy."  It's bullshit ad-hominems up and down the block with these guys.  Now, it's true that Shaun King's birth certificate lists two white people on his birth certificate, Mr. King has an explanation for that



> I refuse to speak in detail about the nature of my mother's past, or her sexual partners, and I am gravely embarrassed to even be saying this now, but I have been told for most of my life that the white man on my birth certificate is not my biological father and that my actual biological father is a light-skinned black man. My mother and I have discussed her affair. She was a young woman in a bad relationship and I have no judgment. This has been my lived reality for nearly 30 of my 35 years on earth. I am not ashamed of it, or of who I am — never that — but I was advised by my pastor nearly 20 years ago that this was not a mess of my doing and it was not my responsibility to fix it. All of my siblings and I have different parents. I'm actually not even sure how many siblings I have. It is horrifying to me that my most personal information, for the most nefarious reasons, has been forced out into the open and that my private past and pain have been used as jokes and fodder to discredit me and the greater movement for justice in America. I resent that lies have been reported as truth and that the obviously racist intentions of these attacks have been consistently downplayed at my expense and that of my family.



Can you imagine how shitty a situation that must be?  Not only was his race and lived experiences called into question, but to address the media scorn he basically had to admit "Yeah, my mom was kind of a slut."  That's fucked up.  Shit, just read this whole thing Black Lives Matter activist Shaun King responds to attacks and questions about his race


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## Devildoc (Apr 18, 2016)

Shaun King may be on the fence, but how about Rachel Dolezal?




And her family:






And Ms. Dolezal identified as an African-American woman.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

Didn't his parents come out as state that he was lying, and than wasn't he called out by other members of the BLM? There are pictures all over the net of him, as a child and as an adult, he looks incredibly Caucasian. So his birth certificate says he is white, his mother and father say he is white, parts of his group said he was white, he put down that he was white in a police report, but now he is half white/black?

I think its a bit of a stretch that everyone is lying to include himself when he was assaulted for being white and dating a black girl.


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## nobodythank you (Apr 18, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Something that I left out and think is important on the acceptance aspects of self identity. That is cultural identity, if you're white and grew up or spent significant time in a Hispanic culture, speak and dress the part, I absolutely accept that and any other combination of the same example. Just don't tell me your Hispanic, you're still white, well cultured in Hispanic culture but that doesn't allow you take someone else's ethnic identity.


Gonna have to stop you on this one. Strictly speaking, Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. There are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, and even Asian Hispanics. Depending on the location of the Hispanic group there could be a mix of all three or two of the fore mentioned racial groupings. Going further, I would venture to argue that someone who has adopted a culture as their own and been indoctrinated into said culture earns the right to identify with it. Culture is not always about race. 


As to the original posting, does it really matter what or how someone identifies themselves as long as it is not an imminent threat to your person? Sure you can think someone is a dumbass that claims to be a short black Thor that loves to dress up as a cabin boy during the blood moon of the solstice, and chances are they probably are. However, does it really make anyone feel better that they feel the need to call someone out? If individual freedom is the keystone of our society, then why do we even care what an individual wants to believe in their head (provided it is not a danger to themselves or others)?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

ke4gde said:


> Gonna have to stop you on this one. Strictly speaking, Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. There are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, and even Asian Hispanics. Depending on the location of the Hispanic group there could be a mix of all three or two of the fore mentioned racial groupings. Going further, I would venture to argue that someone who has adopted a culture as their own and been indoctrinated into said culture earns the right to identify with it. Culture is not always about race.
> 
> 
> As to the original posting, does it really matter what or how someone identifies themselves as long as it is not an imminent threat to your person? Sure you can think someone is a dumbass that claims to be a short black Thor that loves to dress up as a cabin boy during the blood moon of the solstice, and chances are they probably are. However, does it really make anyone feel better that they feel the need to call someone out? If individual freedom is the keystone of our society, then why do we even care what an individual wants to believe in their head (provided it is not a danger to themselves or others)?



You're right, I thought I was making that distinction between culture and race, but absolutely agree on the Hispanic use. I've actually met several Mormon who are white and were born and raised in Mexico,  as well as many black Latinos from south and central America. Very good point made.


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## AWP (Apr 18, 2016)

Two beagles don't make a poodle. If I self identify as a decent human being and not an asshole can I have my own bathroom?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Two beagles don't make a poodle. If I self identify as a decent human being and not an asshole can I have my own bathroom?



Only in a unisex Porta-Shitter kept out back where no one needs to look at you!


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## nobodythank you (Apr 18, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Two beagles don't make a poodle. If I self identify as a decent human being and not an asshole can I have my own bathroom?


No, you may not. Here is why:


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## DocIllinois (Apr 18, 2016)




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## Frank S. (Apr 18, 2016)

I suspect we're having these threads/debates in part because of technology. Twenty-five, thirty years ago, before computers were everywhere, I'd read that if you can conceive of something (be it a device, program, etc), it's only a matter of time before it becomes reality. 
the distance from idea to white box to shelves was shrinking.
Socially, empirical evidence has been gaining a lot more ground, but I think a lot of it is tainted by Googling rather than reading. Bottom line, ten years on from today, I can imagine Ethnic Dysphoria to be a recognized condition.
And I'd support that. It's too late for my generation maybe, but had Mechanical Dysphoria been a diagnosable condition, my life would have been different. I knew as a kid that I really was  a 1977 Kawasaki Z1000. But then, as would happen now, the pawleece swore up and down that they clocked me at 12 kilometers an hour on the freeway instead of my actual foot speed of 120. Naturally the judge sided with them.

He really was a beat up Renault R6 himself.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 18, 2016)

I got drunk one time and my dog and I had a limited antelope dysphoria as we chased and tried to play with the deer in my pasture, but was quickly snapped out of it when my wife hollered from the back porch to get inside and put my clothes back on.


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## AKkeith (Apr 20, 2016)

Boom. Done.


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 20, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I got drunk one time and my dog and I had a limited antelope dysphoria as we chased and tried to play with the deer in my pasture, but was quickly snapped out of it when my wife hollered from the back porch to get inside and put my clothes back on.



No wonder the deer was running from you.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 20, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Shaun King may be on the fence, but how about Rachel Dolezal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, she also lost her job and was the subject of an amazing amount of derision. As should be. You cannot appropriate the experiences of another race. She simply did not grow up as a black woman.

Transgendered people do have certain experiences. Often being treated pretty poorly.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 20, 2016)

ke4gde said:


> Gonna have to stop you on this one. Strictly speaking, Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. There are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, and even Asian Hispanics. Depending on the location of the Hispanic group there could be a mix of all three or two of the fore mentioned racial groupings. Going further, I would venture to argue that someone who has adopted a culture as their own and been indoctrinated into said culture earns the right to identify with it. Culture is not always about race.
> 
> 
> As to the original posting, does it really matter what or how someone identifies themselves as long as it is not an imminent threat to your person? Sure you can think someone is a dumbass that claims to be a short black Thor that loves to dress up as a cabin boy during the blood moon of the solstice, and chances are they probably are. However, does it really make anyone feel better that they feel the need to call someone out? *If individual freedom is the keystone of our society, then why do we even care what an individual wants to believe in their head (provided it is not a danger to themselves or others)?*



The bold is so spot on.


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## DocIllinois (Apr 20, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Yeah, she also lost her job and was the subject of an amazing amount of derision. As should be. You cannot appropriate the experiences of another race. She simply did not grow up as a black woman.
> 
> Transgendered people do have certain experiences. Often being treated pretty poorly.



Truth be told.

Violence against transgender people: A review of United States data


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## DA SWO (Apr 20, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Can I just take some time to point out how nakedly racist this controversy is?  For one, this is Shaun King
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A, he looks Hispanic to me.

B. "Now, it should come as no surprise that conservative media absolutely loathes BLM"

Is burning neighborhoods, calling for race riots or encouraging people to kill cops is acceptable to you?

I loathe BLM,


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 20, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> No wonder the deer was running from you.



Yeah it wasn't too funny in the morning when I was trying to pull all the prickly pear cactus thorns out of my feet and legs. Apparently I had finished off a bottle of grey goose by myself, stripped down to my boxers b/c I was hot, decided to throw the ball for my dog, he alerted on the deer and gave chase and I decided to join in the fun.

Needless to say, I'm not allowed to drink vodka at the house all day anymore. Which surprisingly enough, has cut down on the amount of glasses I used to break. lol


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 20, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Yeah it wasn't too funny in the morning when I was trying to pull all the prickly pear cactus thorns out of my feet and legs. Apparently I had finished off a bottle of grey goose by myself, stripped down to my boxers b/c I was hot, decided to throw the ball for my dog, he alerted on the deer and gave chase and I decided to join in the fun.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm not allowed to drink vodka at the house all day anymore. Which surprisingly enough, has cut down on the amount of glasses I used to break. lol



Too bad we don't have a video of that. It would have gone viral.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 20, 2016)

Huh.

Sometimes the Google is useful for more than just looking up cool guns.  Found this by accident today, was just run on our local news last night.  In a nutshell, there is not a single recorded case anywhere in the United States of a predator posing as a transgender person committing a bathroom assault. There are plenty of transgender folks however, who have been assaulted in bathrooms.

To say the least, this has been a very interesting and somewhat enlightening topic for me to follow the past few days -


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## TLDR20 (Apr 20, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Huh.
> 
> Sometimes the Google is useful for more than just looking up cool guns.  Found this by accident today, was just run on our local news last night.  In a nutshell, there is not a single recorded case anywhere in the United States of a predator posing as a transgender person committing a bathroom assault. There are plenty of transgender folks however, who have been assaulted in bathrooms.
> 
> To say the least, this has been a very interesting and somewhat enlightening topic for me to follow the past few days -



That is what some of us have been saying from the beginning....


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## Marauder06 (Apr 20, 2016)

[QUOTE="
the well-documented hate crimes that he experienced during childhood, a[/QUOTE]

Shaun King's supposed hate crime is well-documented by whom, his supporters on Facebook?  That's all I saw in that link. That doesn't seem to hold up to close scrutiny.  Is there not a police report, or some kind of other official document, that substantiates his claims?  I mean if this was actually the "first documented hate crime" in the state, wouldn't it on public record somewhere?  Asking because I don't know, and the posted link doesn't clear it up.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 20, 2016)

Red Flag 1 said:


> Too bad we don't have a video of that. It would have gone viral.



I'm sure my wife would have loved that... Talking about it is one thing, she always has the deniability to save face, video and I might end up divorced or worse, be forced to listen to her bitchin for the next 50 years. Come on man, team diamondback here... lol


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## Red Flag 1 (Apr 20, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I'm sure my wife would have loved that... Talking about it is one thing, she always has the deniability to save face, video and I might end up divorced or worse, be forced to listen to her bitchin for the next 50 years. Come on man, team diamondback here... lol



Hey D/B, these are things that legends are made of.


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## metalmom (Apr 20, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I'm sure my wife would have loved that... Talking about it is one thing, she always has the deniability to save face, video and I might end up divorced or worse, be forced to listen to her bitchin for the next 50 years. Come on man, team diamondback here... lol


Umm nooooo-lol. Siding with your wife. Ya know I love ya but joining her team.haha


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 21, 2016)

So Kurt Schilling gets fired for posting this on his Facebook page.  My initial reaction is to be outraged, but....he is a public figure who represents ESPN (or did anyway).  Their company, their rules...but he didn't even post the original image, he just shared it.  Hell, I'm not a public figure and I am VERY careful about what I tweet or Facebook - he should know better.  Especially since the image is such an exaggeration of the issue.

Stupid way to lose your job.

ESPN fires analyst and former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling


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## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2016)




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## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Huh.
> 
> Sometimes the Google is useful for more than just looking up cool guns.  Found this by accident today, was just run on our local news last night.  In a nutshell, there is not a single recorded case anywhere in the United States of a predator posing as a transgender person committing a bathroom assault. There are plenty of transgender folks however, who have been assaulted in bathrooms.
> 
> To say the least, this has been a very interesting and somewhat enlightening topic for me to follow the past few days -



Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter


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## nobodythank you (Apr 22, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter


The keywords in @Ooh-Rah 's statement are United States and bathroom. The article cited occurred in Toronto, and the assault was in a shelter,which happens quite regularly, unfortunately, in shelters. This is why many homeless refuse to go into a shelter unless absolutely necessary. Weapons are not allowed, your meager personal effects are stolen, and there is little the shelter can legally do to protect you from others. Not excusing what happened by any means, but trying to give some insight into what happens in shelters that is outside of daily view. 

Additionally, you cannot expect any group to have zero idiots or malcontents. We had them in the military, and we have them on the civvie side. Similar arguments were used in virtually every state that has passed shall issue concealed carry permits. "Someone with a permit to carry a gun could go crazy and kill someone!" Again, unfortunately there are always a very small group that will abuse the law and get in trouble. As what happens in the rare few instances where a concealed carry holder commits a crime thinking they are John E. Law or Bill Badass. That doesn't mean we scrap everyone's right to defend themselves. 

No disrespect intended to anyone, but this emotional outrage over someone going into the bathroom with their wife or daughter screams of a nice juicy liberal emotional argument devoid of logic . If they are worried about someone causing trouble with their precious wives and daughters, why aren't they also worried about someone causing trouble in the men's bathroom with their precious sons? I guess conservative emotional appeal is ok as long as it meets the agenda , sounds like a liberal tactic to me. 

I have to say though, all kidding aside this has been a remarkably civil discussion with great input from all sides.


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## Devildoc (Apr 22, 2016)

I have always thought the "assault" issue was a red herring; not a good argument.  Sure, some weirdos are going to use the law to their benefit and this may be the outcome, but honestly, I expect it would a very, very small, as in statistically insignificant, proportion of potty users.

Regarding private businesses making their bathrooms transgender/unisex/unicorn only, whatever, they are private business and can do what they want.  The government?  It seems the whole argument could be avoided by simply making all bathrooms unisex and single use or family-style (like at malls).  How hard would that be?


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## AWP (Apr 22, 2016)

Paul Smecker approves of this law.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 22, 2016)

ke4gde said:


> The keywords in @Ooh-Rah 's statement are United States and bathroom. The article cited occurred in Toronto, and the assault was in a shelter,which happens quite regularly, unfortunately, in shelters. This is why many homeless refuse to go into a shelter unless absolutely necessary. Weapons are not allowed, your meager personal effects are stolen, and there is little the shelter can legally do to protect you from others. Not excusing what happened by any means, but trying to give some insight into what happens in shelters that is outside of daily view.
> 
> Additionally, you cannot expect any group to have zero idiots or malcontents. We had them in the military, and we have them on the civvie side. Similar arguments were used in virtually every state that has passed shall issue concealed carry permits. "Someone with a permit to carry a gun could go crazy and kill someone!" Again, unfortunately there are always a very small group that will abuse the law and get in trouble. As what happens in the rare few instances where a concealed carry holder commits a crime thinking they are John E. Law or Bill Badass. That doesn't mean we scrap everyone's right to defend themselves.
> 
> ...



A Rape Survivor Speaks Out About Transgender Bathrooms

So you're saying that because statistics tell you (based up Google searches) that a transgender person has never attacked anyone sexually in a bathroom.  Are you going to say next that it will never happen? You can't,  because like you've said,  we have shitty people all over this rock. This law will make it that much easier for a person, particularly a male) to walk into any bathroom and act lewdly. Yes, there are no magical barriers in place right now to stop them,  but they are much easier to keep out with present laws.


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## AKkeith (Apr 22, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> So you're saying that because statistics tell you (based up Google searches) that a transgender person has never attacked anyone sexually in a bathroom.


What is the percentage of sexual assaults and sexual harrassment cases that go unreported? I never paid attention during the safety briefs but I'm pretty sure they said it was incredibly high.


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## nobodythank you (Apr 22, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> A Rape Survivor Speaks Out About Transgender Bathrooms
> 
> So you're saying that because statistics tell you (based up Google searches) that a transgender person has never attacked anyone sexually in a bathroom.  Are you going to say next that it will never happen? You can't,  because like you've said,  we have shitty people all over this rock. This law will make it that much easier for a person, particularly a male) to walk into any bathroom and act lewdly. Yes, there are no magical barriers in place right now to stop them,  but they are much easier to keep out with present laws.


I don't quite know where you got that from or where it was inferred. I was just pointing out that the source provided did not match the argument with some commentary attached. However, the argument makes no sense. How exactly will it make it physically easier to commit a crime? Unwanted contact, sexual or otherwise, is already prohibited by law. Sexual assault is already a felony level crime in all states. To go back to the gun argument, the government has several laws that are already on the books, why do we need more?

Let's assume for argument's sake that this law provides a codified method for imposing criminal sanctions for using the wrong restroom. Then what? Are we going to lock people up for wanting to take a piss or shit in a bathroom? It can't be made into a felony, so at best it will be a misdemeanor. So we are going to waste more tax payer resources, crowd an overworked criminal justice system, create more revenue for lawyers, and overwork the already hated police departments nationwide, just to keep cocks and slants in their respective rooms. If the bad guy's intent is to do harm, the factors that influence his decision to do harm is not based on a law. It is opportunity and intent that dictate whether bad guy commits the crime, and any crime he wants to commit is already illegal.

#if bathrooms are outlawed, only outlaws will use bathrooms lol


----------



## BloodStripe (Apr 23, 2016)

Obviously you cannot bar anyone from entering a bathroom. But under previous laws, it was much easier to identify a person who should not be 

From Pennsylvania last week.

TOLD YOU: Man Enters Women's Restroom, this Happens NEXT

All this is doing is making it easier for guys like him to do this to one of my daughters. This girl is 10. Old enough to enter a bathroom by herself, old enough to remember this for the rest of her life, and young enough that this will scar her for a very long time.


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## nobodythank you (Apr 23, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Obviously you cannot bar anyone from entering a bathroom. But under previous laws, it was much easier to identify a person who should not be
> 
> From Pennsylvania last week.
> 
> ...


How is it making it easier? How do we identify who is what gender? You cannot have a law that allows anyone to make up their own parameters. The law provides no barrier, no check system, and is meaningless. What, you would feel better about a misdemeanor charge of being in the wrong bathroom tacked onto a felony child porn charge? More charges do not equal a better chance of conviction. 

You are using an emotional argument to justify a paper tiger. The previous laws do not codify what constitutes a male or female, nor does it outline a method for determining how to find out who is male or female. This is nothing more than fear mongering on the part of conservatives that want to fight the "liburul agenda". This argument is the same shit the Komrade Klintons tried with the "think of the children" line when looking to ban guns. Remember? "if it saves one child's life then it is worth it!" The internet made it easier for predators to find children, it doesn't mean we ban the internet and prevent our children from using it. It means we stand vigilant and teach them how to survive in an ever changing world. Adapt and overcome.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 23, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Obviously you cannot bar anyone from entering a bathroom. But under previous laws, it was much easier to identify a person who should not be
> 
> From Pennsylvania last week.
> 
> ...



What does this have to do at all with the bathroom laws? Gender identity?  This dude wasn't dressed like a woman, didn't say he identified as a woman, he just fucking perved out in a bathroom. No law could have stopped this or even made it more difficult for him to do this.

Seriously dude, I don't see how this helps your argument at all. If anything it weakens your position, as it shows that guys don't need to dress like women to get into women's restrooms. They can just walk on in as it stands.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 23, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> What does this have to do at all with the bathroom laws? Gender identity?  This dude wasn't dressed like a woman, didn't say he identified as a woman, he just fucking perved out in a bathroom. No law could have stopped this or even made it more difficult for him to do this.
> 
> Seriously dude, I don't see how this helps your argument at all. If anything it weakens your position, as it shows that guys don't need to dress like women to get into women's restrooms. They can just walk on in as it stands.



I disagree as that's exactly the point I was trying to make. How does a woman dress differently than a male other than skirts and dresses? All a male has to say is they identify as a woman and poof now they can walk right in and unquestioned because questioning them would be ignorance.


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## x SF med (Apr 23, 2016)

Here's the answer....


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 23, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> I disagree as that's exactly the point I was trying to make. How does a woman dress differently than a male other than skirts and dresses? All a male has to say is they identify as a woman and poof now they can walk right in and unquestioned because questioning them would be ignorance.



But...

The reality (and by reality I mean what will really happen; not what our worst fears are) is that most dudes who are going to saunter into a bathroom to do bad things are not going to walk into a woman's bathroom and and announce to anyone who asks that they identify as a woman.  It's  just not going to happen, and if it does people will still question him.  In the end, how far does the pervert child rapist/photographer want to take their ruse?  Get on CNN/FOX as the first male to take advantage of the new law and not even make the attempt to look like a woman?


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## TLDR20 (Apr 23, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> I disagree as that's exactly the point I was trying to make. How does a woman dress differently than a male other than skirts and dresses? All a male has to say is they identify as a woman and poof now they can walk right in and unquestioned because questioning them would be ignorance.



I honestly do not follow. A guy dressed like a guy will always be questioned. Are you trying to say people will just walk in and when caught say they were trans? For real? Is that the best argument for this? Why isn't this happening en mass all over the country? Why doesn't this happen all over Europe? Why are t pedophiles jumping out of their shoes saying they are trans? Or are we just legislating the possibility of a problem now?


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## Etype (Apr 23, 2016)

This is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make in this thread.

... and BTW, I'm a purple buffalo.







... and a Navy SEAL. The first purple buffalo to graduate BUD/S, because that's how I feel.


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## amlove21 (Apr 23, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Paul Smecker approves of this law.


For the MF'ing WIN. 

I left the pic on purpose. Cause Agent Smecker was the baddest crossdressing government employee since FDR.


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## BloodStripe (Apr 24, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I honestly do not follow. A guy dressed like a guy will always be questioned.



Do women always wear skirts, dresses,  or heels?


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## TLDR20 (Apr 24, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Do women always wear skirts, dresses,  or heels?



Obviously not.


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## Frank S. (Apr 24, 2016)

I blame "silence of the lambs"...


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## Florida173 (Apr 24, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> I blame "silence of the lambs"...



So.. My fiance only seems to know pop culture, and more specifically this reference through family guy... Here's what she thought of when I described that scene.


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## Dame (Apr 24, 2016)

Anyone with a voice like an East German women's shot-putter comes into a restroom while I'm there, and there are little girls in the room, will have to wait.
And then when the little girls leave, I won't mind standing and waiting for the East German to finish so nothing happens to him/her either.
Have I done something similar before? Yes. 
Does it make me a bigot? A prude? Any of you who know me know the answer to both of those questions. Hint: same answer.


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## Frank S. (Apr 24, 2016)

Etype said:


> ... and BTW, I'm a purple buffalo.


Just for you, then:


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 26, 2016)

...and yet another case of a person getting in their own way of whatever message they want to convey :wall:

Orlando woman plans to take her gun into Target bathrooms to protect herself from transgender people


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## CDG (Apr 26, 2016)

I hate people.


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## AWP (Apr 26, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...and yet another case of a person getting in their own way of whatever message they want to convey :wall:
> 
> Orlando woman plans to take her gun into Target bathrooms to protect herself from transgender people



FLORIDA FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!! YOU DON'T EVEN NEED A MONDAY TO BE THIS PUMPED UP!!!!!!!!


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## DocIllinois (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...and yet another case of a person getting in their own way of whatever message they want to convey :wall:
> 
> Orlando woman plans to take her gun into Target bathrooms to protect herself from transgender people



A very religious person operating on beliefs for which the evidence to support them is extremely poor, or non existent.  How novel.  

And in this case, the action motivated by the person's wildly unfounded belief is presenting a real danger to the people around them.

Mrs. Staver or anyone like her should do society a favor and just stay out of Target stores.  A Wal Mart won't be far away, I guarantee it.


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## Florida173 (Apr 27, 2016)

What's the big deal with her bringing her Glock into a bathroom with her? We have conceal carry in Florida and I'm sure plenty of people do this. How is she presenting a real danger to the people around them @DocIllinois


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 27, 2016)

Florida173 said:


> What's the big deal with her bringing her Glock into a bathroom with her? We have conceal carry in Florida and I'm sure plenty of people do this. How is she presenting a real danger to the people around them @DocIllinois



She is setting herself up for a confrontation.  

1) Why do we even know who she is?  I carry a pistol everywhere I go too, no one is reading about it on the Daily Mail.

2) This type of media attention does nothing positive for legal gun owners, but instead perpetuates the stereotype of good ol' boy, racist homophobes.  

3) Posting "this" on Twitter is only designed to call attention to herself, and if/when she does have an incident that involves her gun, prosecutors are going to spluge themselves as they review her social media history.


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## Totentanz (Apr 27, 2016)

Florida173 said:


> What's the big deal with her bringing her Glock into a bathroom with her? We have conceal carry in Florida and I'm sure plenty of people do this. How is she presenting a real danger to the people around them @DocIllinois



It's sensationalist and it's begging for a scene.  I have no issue with her carrying - I wish more people would.  But how in the world does her statement (which honestly, resembles empty chest-thumping) improve anything in this situation?

I'll just roll my eyes and continue on with my life...


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## Devildoc (Apr 27, 2016)

For the love of Pete, keep your mouth shut, do what you're gonna do, and move on.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

I carry AIWB, and it sucks if you end up in a public restroom having to take a shit. One you can't just leave it in the holster because it flops over on the floor, someone in a stall next to could see/grab it. Two there really nowhere in the stall to shelve it, stupid TP dispenser is always slanted or too round, commercial flush is just pipe. So you get stuck pinching it behind your knee, which has its drawbacks depending how you wipe, or you end up just dropping in between your legs on your damn under wear. I really think public restroom stalls should have CCW shelves, I mean I wear clean underwear and all, but if I'm taking a dump in a public restroom it might be because things ain't going so good...you know shouldn't have chewed that bubble gum you found stuck to the trashcan outside kinda thing. These are all things to think about, just sayin.


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## AWP (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> 3) Posting "this" on Twitter is only designed to call attention to herself, and if/when she does have an incident that involves her gun, prosecutors are going to spluge themselves as they review her social media history.
> View attachment 15353



Wait, this twatwaffle is stating she'll take her Glock to the bathroom in a Target but closes with the hashtag "#BoycottTarget?"


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I carry AIWB, and it sucks if you end up in a public restroom having to take a shit. One you can't just leave it in the holster because it flops over on the floor, someone in a stall next to could see/grab it. Two there really nowhere in the stall to shelve it, stupid TP dispenser is always slanted or too round, commercial flush is just pipe. So you get stuck pinching it behind your knee, which has its drawbacks depending how you wipe, or you end up just dropping in between your legs on your damn under wear. I really think public restroom stalls should have CCW shelves, I mean I wear clean underwear and all, but if I'm taking a dump in a public restroom it might be because things ain't going so good...you know shouldn't have chewed that bubble gum you found stuck to the trashcan outside kinda thing. These are all things to think about, just sayin.


You can always hang it by the trigger guard on the coat hook in the stall. Almost all stalls have a coat hook.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

macNcheese said:


> You can always hang it by the trigger guard on the coat hook in the stall. Almost all stalls have a coat hook.



I think you missed the cryptic point of my post, but nonetheless, good point on the coat hook, albeit a bit dangerous with the bang switch being in the trigger guard and the sticking knobby hook objects into said bang switch protector.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think you missed the cryptic point of my post, but nonetheless, good point on the coat hook, albeit a bit dangerous with the bang switch being in the trigger guard and the stick knobby hook objects into said bang switch protector.



I think (hope) he was being sarcastic about the whole hook on the back of the door thing. @macNcheese , you were just kidding, right?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I think (hope) he was being sarcastic about the whole hook on the back of the door thing. @macNcheese , you were just kidding, right?



It's all good, I sometimes take my G19 out and practice twirling my pistol on my finger at small children parties. I mean sometimes I self identify as a modern John Wayne, children's clown, who performs pistol twirling shows with loaded safe action pistols.


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think you missed the cryptic point of my post, but nonetheless, good point on the coat hook, albeit a bit dangerous with the bang switch being in the trigger guard and the stick knobby hook objects into said bang switch protector.


I think this topic brings us back to the first time you and I met on this site. With the girl wearing the S&W shirt and all the happy remarks my comments got me.
TRAINED PEOPLE DON'T ADVERTISE.
Publicly advertising the fact that you're carrying a weapon takes away the element of surprise and could in fact make you a target. Advertising = Untrained = Unsafe. This lady saying she's bringing a gun to defend herself from the Trans. community... Now they know to kill her right away because she has a gun.


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I think (hope) he was being sarcastic about the whole hook on the back of the door thing. @macNcheese , you were just kidding, right?


I was. I just retighten my belt below my knees and spread my feet a bit. Don't worry


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

macNcheese said:


> I think this topic brings us back to the first time you and I met on this site. With the girl wearing the S&W shirt and all the happy remarks my comments got me.
> TRAINED PEOPLE DON'T ADVERTISE.
> Publicly advertising the fact that you're carrying a weapon takes away the element of surprise and could in fact make you a target. Advertising = Untrained = Unsafe. This lady saying she's bringing a gun to defend herself from the Trans. community... Now they know to kill her right away because she has a gun.



Really? Dude, my total lack of training [sarc] tells me everyone has a weapon and is a threat. Where what that twat said would come into play, is if she ended up shooting someone, it would give the DA premeditation, but yeah.


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

I mean I wouldn't want my wife or daughter going into a bathroom with this lady.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

macNcheese said:


> I mean I wouldn't want my wife or daughter going into a bathroom with this lady.



Well unless you have some facial recognition software and a link to the CCTV just before you enter the restroom, how would they know?

ETA: going back to my point I cryptically was trying to make, this thread is supposed to be about self identity and not the women's bathroom. Although I understand the link, it doesn't have to consume the thread...


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## Grunt (Apr 27, 2016)

Well, should my wife or daughter go into a public bathroom and some hairy ape decides to go in there after them...rest assured...I am following suit and standing next to their door. That, or he isn't going in until they leave.

It's truly that simple for me.


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

I mean compared to someone who may or may not be a woman vs some sort of anti-trans vigilante, I'd choose the trans person. At least they're not walking into the bathroom looking for a gun fight


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Agoge said:


> Well, should my wife or daughter go into a public bathroom and some hairy ape decides to go in there after them...rest assured...I am following suit and standing next to their door. That, or he isn't going in until they leave.
> 
> It's truly that simple for me.


And you wouldn't be questioned for that. Because it would be hypocritical.


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## RustyShackleford (Apr 27, 2016)

So, when will they put urinals in ladies room for all those pre-op transgender folks? Talk about discrimination...


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

macNcheese said:


> I mean compared to someone who may or may not be a woman vs some sort of anti-trans vigilante, I'd choose the trans person. At least they're not walking into the bathroom looking for a gun fight



Someone wanting to protect themselves or their kids, from the theoretical possibilities of a man dressing like a woman as disguise to assault them, is now a anti transgender vigilante?

Really man? She is making an inflammatory comment, and trying to draw attention to herself. The only thing she did, is get herself a guaranteed murder conviction if she shoots and kills anyone in a restroom.

That said, with your vast knowledge and training, I'm sure you will be able to protect your wife from the crazy cat lady making stupid "I don't like this and I have a Glock" post's.


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 27, 2016)

RustyShackleford said:


> So, when will they put urinals in ladies room for all those pre-op transgender folks? Talk about discrimination...



 It is posts like this that make me think there is no point in reading The Onion anymore. 

 You could tell me right now that there really is a group calling for urinals in women's bathrooms, and I would be inclined to believe it.


----------



## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Someone wanting to protect themselves or their kids, from the theoretical possibilities of a man dressing like a woman as disguise to assault them, is now a anti transgender vigilante?
> 
> Really man? She is making an inflammatory comment, and trying to draw attention to herself. The only thing she did, is get herself a guaranteed murder conviction if she shoots and kills anyone in a restroom.
> 
> That said, with your vast knowledge and training, I'm sure you will be able to protect your wife from the crazy cat lady making stupid "I don't like this and I have a Glock" post's.


Self-appointing yourself to fill the gap for authorities is literally the definition of a vigilante.
As for my vast amount of knowledge, everything I said was in the lvl.1 concealed carry class. Which is why it's important. The very first thing they teach you is not to talk about your firearm. So the moment someone says something like this, it's obvious they have received NO training. Which is irresponsible concealed carrying.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

macNcheese said:


> Self-appointing yourself to fill the gap for authorities is literally the definition of a vigilante.
> As for my vast amount of knowledge, everything I said was in the lvl.1 concealed carry class. Which is why it's important. The very first thing they teach you is not to talk about your firearm. So the moment someone says something like this, it's obvious they have received NO training. Which is irresponsible concealed carrying.



Go read her actual tweet and tell me how she implies she is taking the law into her own hands?

As for vast knowledge, you're wrong or your course was wrong. Either way, I'll clarify with you that advertising that you have a firearm is a useful strategy (in some cases) to deter an assailant, but not in all situations. In many states open carry is common and lawful, and something I do from time to time. Also many of my buddies to include myself wear gun related t-shirts that we have been given at the many competition and fundraisers we take part, I doubt you want to compare resumes with me on training or experience. If you want to continue the conversation regarding experience/knowledge/training, shoot me a message. Let's get back to the topic of the thread otherwise.


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## macNcheese (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Go read her actual tweet and tell me how she implies she is taking the law into her own hands?
> 
> As for vast knowledge, you're wrong or your course was wrong. Either way, I'll clarify with you that advertising that you have a firearm is a useful strategy (in some cases) to deter an assailant, but not in all situations. In many states open carry is common and lawful, and something I do from time to time. Also many of my buddies to include myself wear gun related t-shirts that we have been given at the many competition and fundraisers we take part, I doubt you want to compare resumes with me on training or experience. If you want to continue the conversation regarding experience/knowledge/training, shoot me a message. Let's get back to the topic of the thread otherwise.


You're trying to attack my credibility. And it has nothing to do with what I said. I was trying to correlate her lack of regard for public safety by being untrained and armed and show how it was more dangerous than a trans. person entering a bathroom.
I didn't realize this was a pissing contest


----------



## AWP (Apr 27, 2016)

Could we go back to the thread's OP and you gents take this to PM?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Could we go back to the thread's OP and you gents take this to PM?



No worries he made the ignore list 

Transgender teen fights bathroom suspension - CNN.com

Some pictures of him at the end of the article.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> No worries he made the ignore list
> 
> Transgender teen fights bathroom suspension - CNN.com
> 
> Some pictures of him at the end of the article.



Here is what I got out of this article.  Another case of a busybody getting into someone else's business.  Everyone thought she was a boy, and everything was fine.  Teacher finds out he is a she, and has to make an issue out of it.
Suddenly the school is making him choose to use the girls bathroom or go to the nurses office.  Pretty nerve racking for a high-school student to have to deal with.  I still struggle with how I feel about this whole situation of bathrooms, but as I get older I seem to fall back on compassion vs. what the religious right tell me I should feel.  Fuck, I hope this doesn't mean I'm turning into a liberal, I don't identify as a liberal, but I sure as hell am tiring of what so-called Republican's are tossing around -

_By seventh grade, R. was shopping for clothes from the boys' section. Based on his appearance, girls in middle school began to complain when he used the girls' room. His family reached a decision with school administrators to use the boys' room to make everyone more comfortable, his mother said.  Since then, he has used the boys' room at school and in public places, Lynne said. Except for family and a few close friends, people at school knew him as a boy, until October. *That's when a teacher found out he was born a girl and complained to administrators about him using the boys' room*, the law center's letter states._


----------



## nobodythank you (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Here is what I got out of this article.  Another case of a busybody getting into someone else's business.  Everyone thought she was a boy, and everything was fine.  Teacher finds out he is a she, and has to make an issue out of it.
> Suddenly the school is making him choose to use the girls bathroom or go to the nurses office.  Pretty nerve racking for a high-school student to have to deal with.  I still struggle with how I feel about this whole situation of bathrooms, but as I get older *I seem to fall back on compassion vs. what the religious right tell me I should feel. * Fuck, I hope this doesn't mean I'm turning into a liberal, I don't identify as a liberal, but I sure as hell am tiring of what so-called Republican's are tossing around -


No my friend, that is called evolution. Welcome to the club 

See? Even Marines can evolve! lol :troll::-"


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

ke4gde said:


> No my friend, that is *called evolution*. Welcome to the club
> 
> See? Even Marines can evolve! lol :troll::-"



For real...


----------



## nobodythank you (Apr 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> For real...


The world must be ending since we have agreed on so much lately. lol


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Here is what I got out of this article.  Another case of a busybody getting into someone else's business.  Everyone thought she was a boy, and everything was fine.  Teacher finds out he is a she, and has to make an issue out of it.
> Suddenly the school is making him choose to use the girls bathroom or go to the nurses office.  Pretty nerve racking for a high-school student to have to deal with.  I still struggle with how I feel about this whole situation of bathrooms, but as I get older I seem to fall back on compassion vs. what the religious right tell me I should feel.  Fuck, I hope this doesn't mean I'm turning into a liberal, I don't identify as a liberal, but I sure as hell am tiring of what so-called Republican's are tossing around -
> 
> _By seventh grade, R. was shopping for clothes from the boys' section. Based on his appearance, girls in middle school began to complain when he used the girls' room. His family reached a decision with school administrators to use the boys' room to make everyone more comfortable, his mother said.  Since then, he has used the boys' room at school and in public places, Lynne said. Except for family and a few close friends, people at school knew him as a boy, until October. *That's when a teacher found out he was born a girl and complained to administrators about him using the boys' room*, the law center's letter states._



I actually agree on the compassion  aspect. But also wonder if there is a school policy requirements for the teacher to report.

Remember a few months ago when none of this was a media issue?


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Fuck, I hope this doesn't mean I'm turning into a liberal, I don't identify as a liberal, but I sure as hell am tiring of what so-called Republican's are tossing around -
> _._



I used to say I was socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I am still conservative about basically one issue, and that is gun control. The thing was as I looked at all the things that "shouldn't matter" or should not "sway my vote" like abortion, gay marriage, and other "social progressive bullshit" I found that the people that oppose those things, are often the people I respect the least (politically). I found that in order to say you are pro-choice, you cannot then vote for a politician who, while fiscally conservative, also has to cater to the religious nut-jobs to win his primary. Those fiscal conservatives turn into real conservatives. Also, unfortunately social issues like the ones I outlined tend to say a lot about where someone stands on other issues, like education.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

ke4gde said:


> The world must be ending since we have agreed on so much lately. lol



I am sure we will find something to argue about soon enough.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I used to say I was socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I am still conservative about basically one issue, and that is gun control. The thing was as I looked at all the things that "shouldn't matter" or should not "sway my vote" like abortion, gay marriage, and other "social progressive bullshit" I found that the people that oppose those things, are often the people I respect the least (politically). I found that in order to say you are pro-choice, you cannot then vote for a politician who, while fiscally conservative, also has to cater to the religious nut-jobs to win his primary. Those fiscal conservatives turn into real conservatives. Also, unfortunately social issues like the ones I outlined tend to say a lot about where someone stands on other issues, like education.



Interesting, I've got to admit my upbringing limits my abilities to accept things and my personal idea's of religion and theories of rationalization tend to lead me to the same areas of thought. Like I can accept someone for being homosexual, even though I think its wrong, and don't believe it should be forced upon society as normal or common. Example, I would accept my child was a homosexual, because I love them. I don't however agree that it should made something that's common or pushed upon them to feel that it is cool or right.

If that makes any sense at all.

I kinda base it on what environment I want my children to grow up in and what I want them to be exposed to as young kids. Not to shelter them completely as at some point they will be exposed and make their own decisions, but the idea of forced opinions vs personal opinion based on logic and beliefs.

That said my kids are not forced into religious beliefs, but are forced to conform to cultural normality and manners/customs.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Interesting, I've got to admit my upbringing limits my abilities to accept things and my personal idea's of religion and theories of rationalization tend to lead me to the same areas of thought. Like I can accept someone for being homosexual, even though I think its wrong, and don't believe it should be forced upon society as normal or common. Example, I would accept my child was a homosexual, because I love them. I don't however agree that it should made something that's common or pushed upon them to feel that it is cool or right.
> 
> If that makes any sense at all.
> 
> ...



So I have to assume you think that sexuality is a choice. Someone chooses to be a homosexual at some point. There are only social/psychological determinants, and no biological determinants?


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> So I have to assume you think that sexuality is a choice. Someone chooses to be a homosexual at some point. There are only social/psychological determinants, and no biological determinants?



I think there is plenty of evidence to support both, several who experimented because they hung with group who influenced it, but later changed. Some who just believe that's their sexuality and or attraction's, and some who do it simply as a measure of rebellion against normality's of either culture and or parental upbringing.

I've met and know all types, most of the one's I've meant were out in the open pushing it in peoples faces and later changed. But I do know one dude, a soldier, who was very closed in about it, you'd never know it, and I didn't for many years. When I finally found out and talked him about it, it boiled down to he had been with one girl, hated it and was always attracted to men. I don't question him on it an accept that that is who he is. I still don't think it's right, but that is his choice. Now just because I accept him and consider him a friend, I wouldn't want him and his lover kissing in front of my kids and he is far to respectful of the issue to even do that in public much less in front of my kids.


----------



## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think there is plenty of evidence to support both, several who experimented because they hung with group who influenced it, but later changed. Some who just believe that's their sexuality and or attraction's, and some who do it simply as a measure of rebellion against normality's of either culture and or parental upbringing.
> 
> I've met and know all types, most of the one's I've meant were out in the open pushing it in peoples faces and later changed. But I do know one dude, a soldier, who was very closed in about it, you'd never know it, and I didn't for many years. When I finally found out and talked him about it, it boiled down to he had been with one girl, hated it and was always attracted to men. I don't question him on it an accept that that is who he is. I still don't think it's right, but that is his choice. Now just because I accept him and consider him a friend, I wouldn't want him and his lover kissing in front of my kids and he is far to respectful of the issue to even do that in public much less in front of my kids.



I asked if you think that homosexuality is a choice. You danced around that and didn't answer. The research that I have done seems pretty strong in that it is not. Sure there are social and psychological actors, as there are in any type of socially constructed thing like sexuality. But I do not think that it is just a choice.

I asked because if you think it is a choice it is very easy to consider it "wrong,"  or "bad," and to feel it is being "pushed in your face" if you feel someone is choosing to be a way. However if you think that it is the way someone is, like for instance being blonde, or straight, or black, then kissing the person they love in public is a normal, healthy sign of affection.

Here is a good summary of some of the thoughts on it. There are some academic articles linked to in that link. This is a summary not me saying this is evidence.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I asked if you think that homosexuality is a choice. You danced around that and didn't answer. The research that I have done seems pretty strong in that it is not. Sure there are social and psychological actors, as there are in any type of socially constructed thing like sexuality. But I do not think that it is just a choice.
> 
> I asked because if you think it is a choice it is very easy to consider it "wrong,"  or "bad," and to feel it is being "pushed in your face" if you feel someone is choosing to be a way. However if you think that it is the way someone is, like for instance being blonde, or straight, or black, then kissing the person they love in public is a normal, healthy sign of affection.



I think it is a choice, but also understand that some people are only attracted to the same sex and it's easier for them mentally to be a homosexual.

Where my "i think its wrong" comment comes from is the fact that it's unnatural to the biological nature of reproduction. Thus it's not what is intended, kinda like a grown man having sex with a little girl who has not fully developed in maturity. Morality says it's wrong because society says so through its laws, etc. However biologically, medically we know its unhealthy for grown men to have sex with little boys and girls, the same way we know it's unhealthy for grown men to have thing jammed into their rectum, or that we know that two men cannot reproduce offspring's, etc.

But to be 100% honest, yes I think you have to make decision to have sex with same or opposite sex. It's a choice, the same way making a decision to not have sex at all is a choice. Sexual attractions may not be as much of a choice.


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## AWP (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> the same way we know it's unhealthy for grown men to have thing jammed into their rectum,



I just want to springboard off your comment. I'm not saying you belong in the group I'm about to address, simply because I don't know, but I laugh my ass off at men who rail against taking it in the ass, but will have anal sex with a woman. An asshole's an asshole, what it is attached to doesn't change that. If a woman doing it is okay but a guy doing it isn't...might as well boycott Target by going to their stores.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I just want to springboard off your comment. I'm not saying you belong in the group I'm about to address, simply because I don't know, but I laugh my ass off at men who rail against taking it in the ass, but will have anal sex with a woman. An asshole's an asshole, what it is attached to doesn't change that. If a woman doing it is okay but a guy doing it isn't...might as well boycott Target by going to their stores.



Yeah dude, I'm not in agreement with either a man or a woman doing that. I think it's actually disgusting but also know it can lead to several health issues.


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## DocIllinois (Apr 27, 2016)

There is currently no scientific consensus on the exact reason an individual develops a particular sexual orientation.  

For the scientifically minded, this means conclusive views on the subject are withheld for the moment because no one can yet responsibly give a well supported answer.


The patterns of attraction which determine sexual orientation may arise without any prior sexual experience, though, according to current scientific understanding.

For a better understanding of sexual orientation and homosexuality


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## Ooh-Rah (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> But to be 100% honest, yes I think you have to make decision to have sex with same or opposite sex. It's a choice, the same way making a decision to not have sex at all is a choice. Sexual attractions may not be as much of a choice.



I think you are saying that in the end, it is all about choices?  Personally I disagree.  My 17 year old nephew is gay.  We all know it, he knows it, but has not acknowledged it yet.  He does not want to be gay, he wants to bang girls and hang with dudes doing "dude" stuff.  He's also a major homophobe - this has to be so difficult for him.

So how can I (and many other men) agree that being gay is not a choice (in most cases) yet still get uncomfortable with their displaying public affection?

As @TLDR20 says above:


TLDR20 said:


> However if you think that it is the way someone is, like for instance being blonde, or straight, or black, then kissing the person they love in public is a normal, healthy sign of affection.



Based on that quote, shouldn't we just accept two men holding hands or kissing in public as normal?  I want to, I really do - I want to be a good uncle when my nephew eventually comes out, I want to be able to accept his partner as a member of the family and even attend their wedding if they choose to do that.

I really believe it comes down to the sex.  I have long believed that many guys problem with homosexuality is more to do with the sex than anything else.  Example, I have a very good friend who is gay. We do all kinds of guy stuff together, including talking about some of his/our relationship challenges. Sometimes he has his partner with him and when they hold hands or kiss, it really bugs me. I don't want it to, but it does. 

On the other hand, one of my sister's best friends is a lesbian and when she and her current girl friend hold hands or kiss in public, I cannot help but steal a glance and file that scene away for future use.  Girl/girl sex is practically part of normal society now; it is an inside joke on TV shows (there were two plot points about it in Friends, and the guys were VERY accepting of those stories).

The same cannot be said for guy/guy sex.  The idea of two dudes having sex the way they do, disgusts me. The idea of two women doing the same has a very different affect on me.  Admittedly I've never taken the time to study this topic or do any research on it, it is really just how I feel right now.  To add...we have two or three similar topics running in this forum right now, it has been some of the best discussion I have ever seen on the subject and in some cases has helped to change long held opinions I have had -


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## nobodythank you (Apr 27, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Where my "i think its wrong" comment comes from is the fact that it's unnatural to the biological nature of reproduction. Thus it's not what is intended,


I don't want to seem like I am dog piling you, but I wanted to offer some food for thought on this area that may help shed some light. While it is obviously counter to reproduction (for obvious reasons), it is not necessarily unnatural. Several hundred species of animals have been observed engaging in homosexuality both in captivity and in the wild. Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality? From Yale Scientific magazine, and Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate from National Geographic are some interesting articles on the topic. 

While there is nothing definitive either way, it does help to illustrate the ever changing challenge to Darwin's original theory. Is it counter-productive to reproduction? Well yes of course. However, humans don't have sex just to procreate. We use sex for enjoyment as well. From the articles, homosexuality may also be used as a social tool among other species as well. Our understanding of biology is a never ending expansion of knowledge. In fact, I cannot remember where, but there was a science documentary that estimated within 10 years, the method for allowing two women or two men to create a child from each other's genetic code would be possible. Granted, it would be through manipulation and not natural occurrences.


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## AWP (Apr 27, 2016)

I never ran from explaining homosexuality to my daughter. I framed it along "love" rather than "babies" and left it at that. Seeing two guys display affection doesn't bother me, but when my daughter was young seeing ANY couple with a tongue down the other's throat bothered me. Whatever the couple I shouldn't have to explain that sort of behavior to a 7 year old.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 27, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> ...
> 
> Here is a good summary of some of the thoughts on it. There are some academic articles linked to in that link. This is a summary not me saying this is evidence.



I read the linked article, and of eight links I clicked on in it, seven of them referred to the site's own articles and one let to a study that it would cost me something like $40 to read.  I was hoping for something more substantial and credible, I'll read it if you have any good suggestions.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 27, 2016)

@Ooh-Rah, we will have to agree to disagree brother. I don't wanna touch on your comments regarding your nephew, its not my place to comment one way or another on it.

@ke4gde, I see what you are saying and I've seen that behavior on the ranch I grew up on. However, the unnatural aspect, is I have two bulls fuck each other (normally out of dominance) and not breading the herd, one is removed and the herd gets bread. That behavior is more common in captivity and from my experience is caused by lack of breed ing mate or dominance.

@Freefalling, not running from the discussion, however, my kids are still too young for any sex talks of any kind. When I do have that talk, it will be grounded in what I feel is appropriate at that time, either be based on love, science or beliefs.

This has sparked a funny debate with my wife here at the house, so it may be a while before I respond back, dinner, few beers glasses of wine for her and I might come back with some funny "this is what she said" stuff


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## TLDR20 (Apr 27, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> I read the linked article, and of eight links I clicked on in it, seven of them referred to the site's own articles and one let to a study that it would cost me something like $40 to read.  I was hoping for something more substantial and credible, I'll read it if you have any good suggestions.



Like I said, it wasn't academic. 

You could start here: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation | Science

I have a library access that allows me to easily search and access all these free articles? Are you able to access West Points library online. 

Search Sexual orientation determination. There is plenty of reading there.


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## Raptor (Apr 28, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> I just want to springboard off your comment. I'm not saying you belong in the group I'm about to address, simply because I don't know, but I laugh my ass off at men who rail against taking it in the ass, but will have anal sex with a woman. An asshole's an asshole, what it is attached to doesn't change that. If a woman doing it is okay but a guy doing it isn't...might as well boycott Target by going to their stores.


Along those same lines, don't forget about people who all out hate homosexuals but love checking out two lesbians go at it.


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## Devildoc (Apr 28, 2016)

I am socially conservative, I am fiscally conservative, and I am a Christian.  So certainly one can infer my perspectives without me jotting out a 10-point memo.  I just try to live and let live.  I don't argue, I don't 'not' be around homosexuals/trannies, and nor I do I push my values on them.  I do expect that they live by the same rules and not push their decisions/whatever on me.  Where I start getting sporty is when there is an expectation of "special" consideration or "unequal" consideration because of fill-in-the-blank, or the lovely hypocritical irony comes out when that because I am not in 100% agreement with whatever I am the bigot/racist/misogynist.


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## Marauder06 (Apr 28, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Like I said, it wasn't academic.
> 
> You could start here: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
> 
> ...



I have plenty of access to research, we even have a guy whose job it is to do research for us.  I was more interested in where you are getting your information.


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## TLDR20 (Apr 28, 2016)

Marauder06 said:


> I have plenty of access to research, we even have a guy whose job it is to do research for us.  I was more interested in where you are getting your information.



I used worldcat online search database and search sexual orientation and determination. I read probably 10 papers.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 29, 2016)




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## Gunz (Apr 30, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Two beagles don't make a poodle. If I self identify as a decent human being and not an asshole can I have my own bathroom?




Reminds me of the Venn Diagram I drew for my sons vis a vis the only distinction in life that really matters.


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## Devildoc (May 13, 2016)

Not sure to put this in this thread or the NC thread, but at any rate:

Caitlyn Jenner Experienced 'Sex Change Regret,' Might De-Transition, Biographer Says


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## Devildoc (May 13, 2016)

Not sure if this goes in this thread or the NC thread, but at any rate Mr/Ms Jenner is about to grow cajones again.....

Caitlyn Jenner Experienced 'Sex Change Regret,' Might De-Transition, Biographer Says


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 13, 2016)

What a bunch of attention whores that family is. Well I want to be a chick, because hell that news worthy, but I still dig chicks, and now that my headlines have died out, I guess I'll be a dude again, because its also hard to pick up chicks as a dude pretending to be a chick.

WTF...


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## poison (May 13, 2016)

I got in a discussion about this today. People brought up danger to their kids, morality, etc, but I realized I don't care about that. What I don't like is that trans people (and the US gov't) are trying to force us to recognize trans people, in some weird, twisted award ceremony where the prize is the ability to use whatever bathroom they choose. I don't give two shits what they do, and I empathize with whatever hardship their deal causes them, but they were quietly using bathrooms for the last 500000 years, why the need for recognition now? Do you feel like a woman today? So go use the woman's restroom, and you don't need to remind me you were a man, as you head on in there. If you feel like a woman, fucking own it, and remember, being a woman doesn't make you special, or deserving of a fucking prize. You're just part of the other 50% of the population out there.


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## TLDR20 (May 14, 2016)

poison said:


> I got in a discussion about this today. People brought up danger to their kids, morality, etc, but I realized I don't care about that. What I don't like is that trans people (and the US gov't) are trying to force us to recognize trans people, in some weird, twisted award ceremony where the prize is the ability to use whatever bathroom they choose. I don't give two shits what they do, and I empathize with whatever hardship their deal causes them, but they were quietly using bathrooms for the last 500000 years, why the need for recognition now? Do you feel like a woman today? So go use the woman's restroom, and you don't need to remind me you were a man, as you head on in there. If you feel like a woman, fucking own it, and remember, being a woman doesn't make you special, or deserving of a fucking prize. You're just part of the other 50% of the population out there.



The push is coming from the opposite direction. They were doing like you said before these new state laws.


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## poison (May 14, 2016)

The states can make those laws.


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## DocIllinois (May 14, 2016)

poison said:


> I got in a discussion about this today. People brought up danger to their kids, morality, etc, but I realized I don't care about that. What I don't like is that trans people (and the US gov't) are trying to force us to recognize trans people, in some weird, twisted award ceremony where the prize is the ability to use whatever bathroom they choose. I don't give two shits what they do, and I empathize with whatever hardship their deal causes them, but they were quietly using bathrooms for the last 500000 years, why the need for recognition now? Do you feel like a woman today? So go use the woman's restroom, and you don't need to remind me you were a man, as you head on in there. If you feel like a woman, fucking own it, and remember, being a woman doesn't make you special, or deserving of a fucking prize. You're just part of the other 50% of the population out there.



There is no government or transgender "forcing."

Federal laws already on the books protect transgender person's use of bathrooms in schools, workplaces, public places and health care facilities; Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, the Occupational Safety and Health Act; Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Affordable Care Act.

Nonsense arguments based on ideas of sexual predation and assault, privacy, and religion are driving the attention on this non-issue.  It is inviting costly litigation at a time when there isn't a federal budget for such things, and making business owners hesitant to align with states that have identified themselves as afraid of a changing world.


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## Bypass (May 14, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> What a bunch of attention whores that family is. Well I want to be a chick, because hell that news worthy, but I still dig chicks, and now that my headlines have died out, I guess I'll be a dude again, because its also hard to pick up chicks as a dude pretending to be a chick.
> 
> WTF...


That made me laugh. Thanks for that. :)


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## Bypass (May 14, 2016)

AKkeith said:


> Boom. Done. View attachment 15302


Ah crap. Am I XX or XY? Maybe I will just piss on the sidewalk........


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## Bypass (May 14, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> So Kurt Schilling gets fired for posting this on his Facebook page.  My initial reaction is to be outraged, but....he is a public figure who represents ESPN (or did anyway).  Their company, their rules...but he didn't even post the original image, he just shared it.  Hell, I'm not a public figure and I am VERY careful about what I tweet or Facebook - he should know better.  Especially since the image is such an exaggeration of the issue.
> 
> Stupid way to lose your job.
> 
> ...


I see nothing wrong with the post. I tend to agree and I think the inmates are running the asylum if anyone thinks he deserves to be fired for posting that.


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## DocIllinois (May 14, 2016)

Bypass said:


> I see nothing wrong with the post. I tend to agree and I think the inmates are running the asylum if anyone thinks he deserves to be fired for posting that.



Mr. Schilling was fired because his views are well out of line with the policy and environment ESPN maintains in it's workplace and the image they wish to project.

A company's success or failure depends upon it's market, though, so feedback can be directed to the 'Contact ESPN Customer Care' section of their website.


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## Devildoc (May 14, 2016)

DocIllinois said:


> Mr. Schilling was fired because his views are well out of line with the policy and environment ESPN maintains in it's workplace and the image they wish to project.
> 
> A company's success or failure depends upon it's market, though, so feedback can be directed to the 'Contact ESPN Customer Care' section of their website.



Nah, that's BS.  They claim that is why they fired him, but somehow other people within the ESPN organization...David Pollack, Keith Olbermann, Tony Kornheiser, Steven Smith...have all said racist/misogynistic/crude stuff and they get a free pass.  For whatever reason they had a bone with Schilling and they used this as an excuse to give him the axe.  Honestly I don't care one way or the other, private company and all, but let's be fair about it all.


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## DocIllinois (May 14, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Nah, that's BS.  They claim that is why they fired him, but somehow other people within the ESPN organization...David Pollack, Keith Olbermann, Tony Kornheiser, Steven Smith...have all said racist/misogynistic/crude stuff and they get a free pass.  For whatever reason they had a bone with Schilling and they used this as an excuse to give him the axe.  Honestly I don't care one way or the other, private company and all, but let's be fair about it all.



Conneticut is an At-Will employment state; discussing the fairness of his termination is a dead end unless ESPN did something illegal or he had a contract stating that he couldn't be fired for intolerant comments.


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## Frank S. (May 14, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> What a bunch of attention whores that family is. Well I want to be a chick, because hell that news worthy, but I still dig chicks, and now that my headlines have died out, I guess I'll be a dude again, because its also hard to pick up chicks as a dude pretending to be a chick.
> 
> WTF...



Quite the clusterfuck. 
In Jenner's pursuit of kicks and identity, the next step might be to "revert"back to being Bruce but with a caveat regarding his new cavity. 
If Babawawa is still alive when this rolls around, the interview will show Jenner rocking back and forth in the chair.
Babawawa, misreading the signs, will ask whether talking about this new round of surgery makes Jenner nervous. Jenner will explain that he experienced a revelation of sorts after watching "the human centipede" and chose to skip the colpocloeisis.
Instead he would go straight (no pun intended) for the plastic dick, but no balls, as they would be "in the way".
As he rocks back and forth, he explains he is _"literally fucking [him]self as they speak"._


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## Devildoc (May 14, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Nah, that's BS.  They claim that is why they fired him, but somehow other people within the ESPN organization...David Pollack, Keith Olbermann, Tony Kornheiser, Steven Smith...have all said racist/misogynistic/crude stuff and they get a free pass.  For whatever reason they had a bone with Schilling and they used this as an excuse to give him the axe.  Honestly I don't care one way or the other, private company and all, but let's be fair about it all.



I don't argue that he was fired because he pissed off ESPN, or that CT is an at-will state.  I will argue that he was fired explicitly because of his views when those with similar views have been overlooked for their transgressions.  But then, ESPN has a history of cherry-picking who they fire.  Again, as I said, it's a private company and I largely don't care whom they fire, but let's not pretend it's only because his views were so egregious with regard to the company line.


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## AWP (May 14, 2016)

ESPN as a news site of any note is laughable. It makes CNN look competent and balanced. Schilling should be happy he's away from that abortion.


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## Etype (May 14, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> Quite the clusterfuck.
> In Jenner's pursuit of kicks and identity, the next step might be to "revert"back to being Bruce but with a caveat regarding his new cavity.
> If Babawawa is still alive when this rolls around, the interview will show Jenner rocking back and forth in the chair.
> Babawawa, misreading the signs, will ask whether talking about this new round of surgery makes Jenner nervous. Jenner will explain that he experienced a revelation of sorts after watching "the human centipede" and chose to skip the colpocloeisis.
> ...



Mind blown.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 17, 2016)

Don't look over here!  And don't look over there either!

Look over HERE instead!  You know, the super important bathroom issue!  The Boogeyman,( errr...woman...er...person?)  is going to get your kids when they're pooping!!!



http://www.globalresearch.ca/shell-...-gallons-of-crude-into-gulf-of-mexico/5525316

http://www.newsweek.com/biscayne-bay-florida-nuclear-power-plant-leaking-435721


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

Out of coffee this morning, decided I shall self identify as a lazy bastard today.
...well at least until I get my ass up to the store and buy some coffee. 0530 sucked, 0645 sucked, 0850 sucks...


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## Raptor (May 17, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> Out of coffee this morning, decided I shall self identify as a lazy bastard today.
> ...well at least until I get my ass up to the store and buy some coffee. 0530 sucked, 0645 sucked, 0850 sucks...


Monday is over, that's why it sucks.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

Raptor said:


> Monday is over, that's why it sucks.



That and the wifey used the last coffee pack without saying anything.


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## poison (May 17, 2016)

Coffee packs? And going to the store for coffee? 

This is sad. ;p


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## Ooh-Rah (May 17, 2016)

poison said:


> Coffee packs? And going to the store for coffee?
> 
> This is sad. ;p


LOL - kinds of hits ya right in the heart doesn't it!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

poison said:


> Coffee packs? And going to the store for coffee?
> 
> This is sad. ;p


 For the keurig, I'm not a fancy coffee drinker. I do prefer my old brewer folders coffee over this keurig and dunken donuts packs, but do admit it is easier.


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## Devildoc (May 17, 2016)

There aren't enough K-cups for me....I go through 3/4 pot before work, another couple cups at work....

But I do like the variety.....


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## poison (May 17, 2016)

I'd rather drink a Redbull than keurig. I've never had a decent cup from those,so bitter, watery, and gross.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (May 17, 2016)

poison said:


> I'd rather drink a Redbull than keurig. I've never had a decent cup from those,so bitter, watery, and gross.



Yeah I agree they taste like shit. My wife got into them a about 2-3 years ago and when my coffee pot quit I started using it too, I just haven't gotten another brewer yet. 

The only time I drink Redbull is when I'm drinking vodka. lol


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## poison (May 17, 2016)

If I'm drinking Redbull I might as well drink the vodka too, seeing as it's apparently a fucked up day anyway.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 7, 2016)

I disagree with this ad campaign.  "Accepting" is one thing.  Encouraging is something else, and the wording "No Questions Asked..." is only going to cause problems.

Bill de Blasio spends more than $250,000 on transgender bathroom ads


----------



## Kheenbish (Jun 17, 2016)

Briefly watched the news this morning..."Wayne University dumps math requirements, replaces with diversity curriculum". Hmm I think this was part of that Idiocracy movie plot line.


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## Brill (Jun 17, 2016)

At least when I go into the women's bathroom, nobody pisses on my shoes.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jun 17, 2016)

Wayne State Drops Math Requirement, May Add Diversity Requirement


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## Lefty375 (Jun 17, 2016)

Kheenbish said:


> Briefly watched the news this morning..."Wayne University dumps math requirements, replaces with diversity curriculum". Hmm I think this was part of that Idiocracy movie plot line.



This isn't anything crazy or "SJW-like". Most top tier programs have different math requirements for different majors. I don't need to take the same math as Econ or CS majors, as it's not relevant to what I'm studying.


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## Brill (Jun 17, 2016)

lucky l3fty said:


> This isn't anything crazy or "SJW-like". Most top tier programs have different math requirements for different majors. I don't need to take the same math as Econ or CS majors, as it's not relevant to what I'm studying.



Says the guy with a "3" in his name.:-"


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## Lefty375 (Jun 17, 2016)

lindy said:


> Says the guy with a "3" in his name.:-"



LOL, I had this account from like high school. Leave me alone. I hate you


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## Kheenbish (Jun 17, 2016)

lucky l3fty said:


> This isn't anything crazy or "SJW-like". Most top tier programs have different math requirements for different majors. I don't need to take the same math as Econ or CS majors, as it's not relevant to what I'm studying.



To drop math requirements and sub it for diversity training seems a bit on the to much sensitivity training side.


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## TLDR20 (Jun 17, 2016)

Kheenbish said:


> To drop math requirements and sub it for diversity training seems a bit on the to much sensitivity training side.



Is it? For a humanities major?


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## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

lindy said:


> Says the guy with a "3" in his name.:-"



Says the guy with a Hillary Clinton avatar. :-"


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## Kheenbish (Jun 17, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Is it? For a humanities major?


I suppose not if humanities was your goal, but it was dropped on the general education or pre requisite portion.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 17, 2016)

Well, first people need to recognize that college is a cash cow, a business.  Otherwise you could learn your "major" subjects with supporting classes in a quarter the time.  But I have no problem with dropping math if it's a humanities program.  I _DO_ have a problem with having to take a "diversity requirement" if that was what math was being replaced with.


----------



## Brill (Jun 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Says the guy with a Hillary Clinton avatar. :-"



Abu Hajar would have already unlocked "the thread".


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 17, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Well, first people need to recognize that college is a cash cow, a business.  Otherwise you could learn your "major" subjects with supporting classes in a quarter the time.  But I have no problem with dropping math if it's a humanities program.  I _DO_ have a problem with having to take a "diversity requirement" if that was what math was being replaced with.



Well you can voice your displeasure by not attending that institution. 

If you think that college is only about getting a job, and learning the "major" subjects, maybe you missed the point of your education. I know for certain that I took classes that have zero to do with my ability to effectively manage a critically ill patient, however those classes changed my perspectives on things like empathy, increased my understanding the world around me, and made me a better overall communicator. Totally useless skills.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 17, 2016)

lindy said:


> Abu Hajar would have already unlocked "the thread".



Its a thread.....for people!!!:-"


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

lindy said:


> Abu Hajar would have already unlocked "the thread".



Not being unlocked, it serves no purpose. The smacktalking thread will open when the candidates are named.



TLDR20 said:


> If you think that college is only about getting a job, and learning the "major" subjects, maybe you missed the point of your education. I know for certain that I took classes that have zero to do with my ability to effectively manage a critically ill patient, however those classes changed my perspectives on things like empathy, increased my understanding the world around me, and made me a better overall communicator. Totally useless skills.



Given the deplorable state of education in this country "forcing" college students to take a math class or two isn't a bad thing. If you're going to cut a class trim a Humanities requirement. Yeah, that Music Appreciation course will make me a better person...


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> Not being unlocked, it serves no purpose. The smacktalking thread will open when the candidates are named.
> 
> 
> 
> Given the deplorable state of education in this country "forcing" college students to take a math class or two isn't a bad thing. If you're going to cut a class trim a Humanities requirement. Yeah, that Music Appreciation course will make me a better person...



No one made you take Music Appreciation, you may have chosen that to fulfill a fine arts requirement, but you could have chosen something else.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> No one made you take Music Appreciation, you may have chosen that to fulfill a fine arts requirement, but you could have chosen something else.



No, I had to take music appreciation for my degree. Obviously not all are the same, but some schools lock you in to certain classes.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> No, I had to take music appreciation for my degree. Obviously not all are the same, but some schools lock you in to certain classes.



Wow. There were no other fine arts classes? Didn't you go to UF?


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Wow. There were no other fine arts classes? Didn't you go to UF?



No, Troy University. They may have changed the requirement, but at the time (2013 or so, I graduated in 2014 under an older catalog year) I had Music Appreciation, a literature class with a few options, and a mandatory art class. I think I took World. Lit. or something like that, but the music and art classes were required. That mirrored the CLEP test's topics for whatever reason. I had a CLEP study guide at the time. Music, art, and World Lit. were the three subjects that made up the Humanities CLEP.

I wanted a Computer Degree and was in Afghanistan. Online options were FSU, Troy, Austin Peay, and some schools that didn't impress me. A few other Div-1A schools would later offer Comp. Sci. or Management of Information Systems/ Science degrees (FSU did from the start) and I briefly took 3 classes from Penn State before finishing at Troy. As of two years ago UF didn't have an online B.S. degree related to IT and it still wasn't widespread among brick-and-mortar schools with an online presence.

Master's degrees are a different story. Those are all over the place. I think it was Auburn or Ole Miss where their Master's came in around $20k if you already had the right pre-reqs. Virginia Tech, Arizona State, U. of South FL, and Colorado State all came in around $30k back in 2014.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> No, Troy University. They may have changed the requirement, but at the time (2013 or so, I graduated in 2014 under an older catalog year) I had Music Appreciation, a literature class with a few options, and a mandatory art class. I think I took World. Lit. or something like that, but the music and art classes were required. That mirrored the CLEP test's topics for whatever reason. I had a CLEP study guide at the time. Music, art, and World Lit. were the three subjects that made up the Humanities CLEP.
> 
> I wanted a Computer Degree and was in Afghanistan. Online options were FSU, Troy, Austin Peay, and some schools that didn't impress me. A few other Div-1A schools would later offer Comp. Sci. or Management of Information Systems/ Science degrees (FSU did from the start) and I briefly took 3 classes from Penn State before finishing at Troy. As of two years ago UF didn't have an online B.S. degree related to IT and it still wasn't widespread among brick-and-mortar schools with an online presence.
> 
> Master's degrees are a different story. Those are all over the place. I think it was Auburn or Ole Miss where their Master's came in around $20k if you already had the right pre-reqs. Virginia Tech, Arizona State, U. of South FL, and Colorado State all came in around $30k back in 2014.



I thought you had a degree from way back, and were an officer.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I thought you had a degree from way back, and were an officer.



No and yes.

The Guard will commission you if you have a minimum of 90 credit hours and you have to complete your degree before you make Captain. About half of my graduating class, if not more, didn't have a degree. I was one class away (Human Growth and development) from applying to a BSN program when I got out. After that I worked in IT and lost the desire to go to nursing school. I'm not one to play the shoulda', coulda', woulda' game. For better or worse I made my choices.


----------



## Brill (Jun 17, 2016)

Freefalling said:


> The Guard will commission you if you have a minimum of 90 credit hours and you have to complete your degree before you make Captain.



Learn something everyday.


----------



## AWP (Jun 17, 2016)

lindy said:


> Learn something everyday.



This WA's website, but all of this applied to us back in '99. The big change is Federal OCS: Guard guys who attend it (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Your state's going to pay for that when it has its own program? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!) must have a 4 year degree.

Officer Candidate School (OCS) | Washington National Guard


----------



## Totentanz (Jun 17, 2016)

The Degree Completion Program was alive and well in 2009, and I believe closed in FY10.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 18, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Well you can voice your displeasure by not attending that institution.
> 
> If you think that college is only about getting a job, and learning the "major" subjects, maybe you missed the point of your education. I know for certain that I took classes that have zero to do with my ability to effectively manage a critically ill patient, however those classes changed my perspectives on things like empathy, increased my understanding the world around me, and made me a better overall communicator. Totally useless skills.



Oh, I had a few of those.  Sure.  And I had to take some utterly, completely bullshit courses.  I like how some of the English universities do it: seminar classes that cover a variety of subjects and topics.  No 3-hr class on the History of Ebonics (yes, a real class; no, I didn't take it).  But since have two undergrad degrees, part of a MA and currently enrolled in another grad program, I feel pretty good about my understanding of higher education.  I also lump it under "I don't have to like it, just gotta do it" if I want the sheepskin.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 13, 2016)

Transgender woman arrested for voyeurism at Target in Idaho

Well, that didn't take long.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 13, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Transgender woman arrested for voyeurism at Target in Idaho
> 
> Well, that didn't take long.



Well if you think about it, it kinda did. This is what, 5 months after Target changed or fortified their policy? They have thousands of stores and millions of customers. 1 person out of millions of possible interactions. Shit there have been a boatload mass shootings since then. There have been more shark attacks and lightning strikes since then. A bunch of people have won the lottery, all those things are still more likely than a peeping tom transgender person.


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 14, 2016)

I will say this about the math requirement:

My school has both Music Humanities and Art Humanities as required classes.  No required math but I took it anyway.  I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid.  You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid.  You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.



Vivaldi comes complete with built-in mood music. Excellent choice.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I will say this about the math requirement:
> 
> My school has both Music Humanities and Art Humanities as required classes.  No required math but I took it anyway.  I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid.  You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.



Have you ever killed something to watch it die? Bug, bird, whatever?


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I will say this about the math requirement:
> 
> My school has both Music Humanities and Art Humanities as required classes.  No required math but I took it anyway.  I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid.  You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.


This is just me but, humanities are good for the short term. I figure they give you an appreciation of society. Math helps you effect change and ultimately better the species. Honestly, math is better in the long term.

This from a dumb ass who keeps repeating math courses. Pussy is good, but it ain't improving your life in the long term. Unless you get married, but that's a whole other can of worms.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 14, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Well if you think about it, it kinda did. This is what, 5 months after Target changed or fortified their policy? They have thousands of stores and millions of customers. 1 person out of millions of possible interactions. Shit there have been a boatload mass shootings since then. There have been more shark attacks and lightning strikes since then. A bunch of people have won the lottery, all those things are still more likely than a peeping tom transgender person.



Disagree.  Five months is not that long at all.  Especially when taken into account that the individual arrayed has admitted to doing this in the past as well.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 14, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Well if you think about it, it kinda did. This is what, 5 months after Target changed or fortified their policy? They have thousands of stores and millions of customers. 1 person out of millions of possible interactions. Shit there have been a boatload mass shootings since then. There have been more shark attacks and lightning strikes since then. A bunch of people have won the lottery, all those things are still more likely than a peeping tom transgender person.



I agree in that it is, what, like 1 in a million.  But here's my issue: at first a lot of people said this wouldn't happen; the proponents said those who thought it would (happen) were just being paranoid bigots.  Now that it has, the same people are moving the target: well, it happened, but only once in a billion.  And when it happens again, the target will move again.


----------



## nobodythank you (Jul 14, 2016)

The person will be charged with the appropriate crime.

This argument is no different than gun control advocates saying that since one concealed weapons carrier broke the law, then others are likely to break the law as well. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 14, 2016)

I can argue with @TLDR20  since he seems reasonably intelligent to me (he has, after all, matriculated at one of alma maters).  But my argument with the lesser-cerebral liberals is their use of the true Scotsman fallacy, which is what they have used to support their case.   I will concede both sides will cherry-pick an argument to substantiate their position.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jul 14, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> I can argue with @TLDR20  since he seems reasonably intelligent to me (he has, after all, matriculated at one of alma maters).  But my argument with the lesser-cerebral liberals is their use of the true Scotsman fallacy, which is what they have used to support their case.   I will concede both sides will cherry-pick an argument to substantiate their position.



I don't think I moved the goalpost. My original and still very real argument is that laws preventing people from using the bathrooms of their gender do not prevent this crime. It is illegal to peep on people. It still is illegal to do so in Target. Allowing real trans people to use a bathroom or a changing room doesn't change the fact that it is still illegal to peep at people. 

This person broke the hell out of a law. Same as if she would have walked in their dressed as a man, identifying as a man. Peeping on people is illegal.


----------



## Devildoc (Jul 14, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> I don't think I moved the goalpost. My original and still very real argument is that laws preventing people from using the bathrooms of their gender do not prevent this crime. It is illegal to peep on people. It still is illegal to do so in Target. Allowing real trans people to use a bathroom or a changing room doesn't change the fact that it is still illegal to peep at people.
> 
> This person broke the hell out of a law. Same as if she would have walked in their dressed as a man, identifying as a man. Peeping on people is illegal.



No, I don't necessarily think_ you_ moved the target.  I think it _is _a tactic of the left to use the true Scotsman fallacy with an argument like this.  You seem to back up your arguments pretty cogently and factually, even if I disagree with the premises.


----------



## Dame (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I will say this about the math requirement:
> 
> My school has both Music Humanities and Art Humanities as required classes.  No required math but I took it anyway.  I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid.  You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.


You've been dating the wrong girls.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I will say this about the math requirement:
> 
> My school has both Music Humanities and Art Humanities as required classes.  No required math but I took it anyway.  I've gotten laid by talking about Vivaldi.  Peter Bruegel has also gotten me laid. * You know what hasn't gotten me laid? * Derivatives.



Dang, I would have guessed your sense of humor......


----------



## racing_kitty (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> You know what hasn't gotten me laid?  Derivatives.





Dame said:


> You've been dating the wrong girls.



I bet Dr. Amy Farrah Fowler is a real beast in the sack, with the proper guidance.  You ought to start trolling the math labs more.  :-"


----------



## Brill (Jul 14, 2016)

Dame said:


> You've been dating the wrong girls.



Girls? Shit, I had that pegged wrong.

(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)


----------



## Salt USMC (Jul 14, 2016)

I hear that @lindy is a fan of pegging


----------



## Dame (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I hear that @lindy is a fan of pegging



Stop thinking of @lindy and pegging. Try this for a change.


----------



## AWP (Jul 14, 2016)

Deathy McDeath said:


> I hear that @lindy is a fan of pegging


----------



## Brill (Jul 15, 2016)

Freefalling said:


>




STOP PROJECTING ON ME! "Team Player"!!!

Is she still in the house?


----------



## Dienekes (Jul 28, 2016)

This thread kind of got away from the main point here at the end, but I read an article on The American Conservative yesterday concerning the importance of the "identity crisis" and culture wars that I thought really drove home the point of why this issue is of such importance even though we have more "important problems" terrorism, race problems, and economic problems. I was definitely part of the "Who Cares?" party, but reading this article made me see this problem in a different light. This is the best part of the article in my view. The beginning and end paragraphs are the most important by my reading if you don't want to read the whole thing.



> Believe me, a lot of us notice. Ordinary people who have never had a thought about theory in their lives see the world they took as normal, as stable, as comprehensible, disappearing in front of their eyes, driven by forces they cannot understand, much less control. Some of the more thoughtful conservatives see the deeper problems at issue. Here’s theologian Carl Trueman on the new mandated LGBT history standards in California schools:
> 
> Yuval Levin has written recently that the ethic of modern America is that of expressive individualism. Herein lies the problem: Taken absolutely, expressive individualism has no specific content and thus is subject to those identities which society considers authentic and to which it has thus granted legitimacy. But who decides which identities are authentic? Have you ever wondered why some minorities make it and others do not? Why, say, LGBTQers have pride of place on the California curriculum but foot fetishists, redheads, and people with allergies to latex do not? It is because the latter currently lack the cultural cachet that comes with the imprimatur of the entertainment industry, with the public sympathy arising from publicized marginalization and victimhood, and with the influence of organized lobby groups.
> 
> ...


----------



## x SF med (Jul 28, 2016)

Dienekes said:


> This thread kind of got away from the main point here at the end, but I read an article on The American Conservative yesterday concerning the importance of the "identity crisis" and culture wars that I thought really drove home the point of why this issue is of such importance even though we have more "important problems" terrorism, race problems, and economic problems. I was definitely part of the "Who Cares?" party, but reading this article made me see this problem in a different light. This is the best part of the article in my view. The beginning and end paragraphs are the most important by my reading if you don't want to read the whole thing.




Citations and ascribing the journal are important here...  always cite a link clearly especially if it is to a scholarly journal.  Why is this the best part of the article?  Why is this guy an expert on human nature and identity?

You know all this from your studies...  don't get lazy here...  just sayin.


----------



## Dienekes (Jul 28, 2016)

My bad, sir. It's just a conservative blog article, nothing really scholarly so I didn't think it need extensive citing. I just thought it was a thought-provoking piece on why these subjects actually matter. It changed my judgment from "Who cares?" to "Let's look at this a little deeper".

The article is long and he really goes around Laura's house to get to his point, but so I quoted the part that I thought made his point best to save time. Also, he's not an expert just a journalist, but he's been a writer for some time according to his bio. 



> Rod Dreher is a senior editor at _The American Conservative_. He has written and edited for the _New York Post_, _The Dallas Morning News_, _National Review_, the _South Florida Sun-Sentinel_, the _Washington Times_, and the _Baton Rouge Advocate_. Rod’s commentary has been published in _The Wall Street Journal_, _Commentary_, the _Weekly Standard_, Beliefnet, and Real Simple, among other publications, and he has appeared on NPR, ABC News, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and the BBC. He lives in St. Francisville, Louisiana, with his wife Julie and their three children. He has also written two books, _The Little Way of Ruthie Leming_ and _Crunchy Cons_.



The article: 





> Dreher, Rod. "Peter Thiel Was Wrong"_. The American Conservative._


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 4, 2016)

I am surprised that this has not received heavier media coverage-

U.S. Supreme Court blocks transgender bathroom choice for now

And these paragraphs from the story offers me even more surprise.

_Justice Stephen Breyer, of the Supreme Court's liberal wing, joined with its most conservative members in temporarily siding with the school board.

Breyer wrote in a one-sentence explanation that he did so as a courtesy to preserve the status quo until the Supreme Court has a chance to consider the subject more fully._


----------



## Devildoc (Aug 17, 2016)

Just because things were getting boring in this area...

NC school to teachers: Don't call students 'boys and girls' | Fox News


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 17, 2016)

Devildoc said:


> Just because things were getting boring in this area...
> 
> NC school to teachers: Don't call students 'boys and girls' | Fox News



I just hate everything and everyone now...


----------



## DocIllinois (Aug 17, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am surprised that this has not received heavier media coverage-
> 
> U.S. Supreme Court blocks transgender bathroom choice for now
> 
> ...



This is a stay order so that the Supreme court can decide whether it wants to hear the case at all.    Makes sense to me.

I think the sleazy false impression that the Daily Mail is giving on this becomes clear with the inclusion of "Supreme Court _rules_..." in the headline.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 18, 2016)

I find this interesting-

Target cuts outlook as it sees fewer customers in stores

Target Plans To Spend $20M On Expanding Bathrooms

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — Target plans to spend $20 million to expand bathroom options at all U.S. stores.

The company says it’s heard objections to the transgender policy which would allow customers and employees to use the bathroom of their choice. Instead, Target has decided to expand its use of a third, single-toilet bathroom which can be locked by users.

All customers will be able to use the new bathrooms. Of the 1,800 stores nationwide, only 300 don’t already have the single bathrooms. All but about 25 will have them by the end of the year.


----------



## TLDR20 (Aug 19, 2016)

Target is suffering because of Amazon, and Wal Mart. Before we got Amazon Prime we regularly shopped at Target, now there is almost never a reason to. Almost anything that can be bought at Target can be delivered to my house for free from Amazon. We buy food elsewhere. All big box stores are struggling, bathroom policy or not.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 25, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Yeah, she also lost her job and was the subject of an amazing amount of derision. As should be. You cannot appropriate the experiences of another race. She simply did not grow up as a black woman.
> 
> Transgendered people do have certain experiences. Often being treated pretty poorly.



Saw this update today. Rachel Dolezal still insists she did nothing wrong | Daily Mail Online

_Dolezal told the newspaper that she is currently jobless and feeding her family with food stamps. 
Her friend reportedly helped her pay two months worth of rent and she said she expects to be homeless.
Dolezal said she has applied for more than 100 jobs, including a position at the university where she used to teach, but no one will hire her.
The only work she has been offered is reality TV, and porn. 
_
Considering it was mom and dad who dimed her out, I have to imagine there are no touchy-feely Hallmark Moments come May and June.


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 25, 2017)

I was just reading about her in another article and I was certain there was an inappropriate joke there... 

Rachel Dolezal on brink of homelessness, living off food stamps


----------



## CDG (Feb 26, 2017)

I don't know what she's whining about. Reality TV and porn pay pretty well.  Quit living off the taxpayers and get a fucking job.


----------



## Sendero (Feb 26, 2017)

I thought this might fit here, if not I'll move it.

Transgender allowed to compete using testosterone treatments (AKA PEDs) wins State wrestling championships.  I think it's going to be interesting when boys, in the biological sense, realize they can compete and win at high levels as a "girl". Or girls use "transgender" to use PEDs.  

Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs of Euless Trinity wins Texas state girls wrestling title


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 26, 2017)

Sendero said:


> I thought this might fit here, if not I'll move it.
> 
> Transgender allowed to compete using testosterone treatments (AKA PEDs) wins State wrestling championships.  I think it's going to be interesting when boys, in the biological sense, realize they can compete and win at high levels as a "girl". Or girls use "transgender" to use PEDs.
> 
> Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs of Euless Trinity wins Texas state girls wrestling title



I think you are missing the entire point there. He is biologically female. They made him compete with girls despite him wanting to compete against boys. Boys would have to compete against boys despite taking estrogen therapy. There wouldn't be much of an advantage there...


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 26, 2017)

Sendero said:


> . I think it's going to be interesting when boys, in the biological sense, realize they can compete and win at high levels as a "girl". Or girls use "transgender" to use PEDs.



Before I scoff, are you saying, so that they can compete against the other sex and ultimately win more, you believe high school students will declare themselves an opposite sex?


----------



## Kraut783 (Feb 26, 2017)

There is a law suit by one of the girl wrestlers. They are complaining that the "female" wrestler is taking testosterone and other drugs that they would be suspended if they took them.


----------



## Totentanz (Feb 26, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> There is a law suit by one of the girl wrestlers. They are complaining that the "female" wrestler is taking testosterone and other drugs that *they would be suspended if they took them.*



Well apparently the easy out to HS PEDs is declaring oneself male...


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 26, 2017)

Kraut783 said:


> There is a law suit by one of the girl wrestlers. They are complaining that the "female" wrestler is taking testosterone and other drugs that they would be suspended if they took them.



The lawsuit is by the parents. The girl is quoted as saying she doesn't care. The boy in question attempted to compete against other boys, but was forced to compete against girls by the state. He wasn't seeking an unfair advantage, it was forced on him.

Texas policy forces transgender teen boy to wrestle against female athletes at state championship


----------



## Kraut783 (Feb 26, 2017)

I'm not saying he is seeking an unfair advantage, but it's happening none the less..... it is a quandary for sure.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I think you are missing the entire point there. He is biologically female. They made him compete with girls despite him wanting to compete against boys. Boys would have to compete against boys despite taking estrogen therapy. There wouldn't be much of an advantage there...



Biologically female, but juiced up on testosterone.  Basically on a regimen of performance-enhancing drugs.


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 26, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> Biologically female, but juiced up on testosterone.  Basically on a regimen of performance-enhancing drugs.



Yeah. So the state should have let him compete against boys like he requested. His testosterone levels were still below the threshold allowed for female competitors.


----------



## Sendero (Feb 26, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I think you are missing the entire point there. He is biologically female. They made him compete with girls despite him wanting to compete against boys. Boys would have to compete against boys despite taking estrogen therapy. There wouldn't be much of an advantage there...



Thanks, for your thoughts @TLDR20 

She is allowed to compete with an unfair competitive advantage which is illegal to the other competitors.  For males transitioning to female, they can say they are, that doesn't mean they have to take estrogen.  Not to mention the biological differences in bone structure.

I do agree it's very nuanced and complicated.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Yeah. So the state should have let him compete against boys like he requested. His testosterone levels were still below the threshold allowed for female competitors.



No, they shouldn't have let her compete at all.  The drug regimen imparted unfair competitive advantage.  And apparently it worked.

I don't think we should have separate boys and girls sports.  Have the teams, and let the best people compete.  But if we did that, very, very few girls would be on the teams.  We scream about 'equality' but we're still striving for "separate but equal" when it comes to things that advantage females.


----------



## Sendero (Feb 26, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Before I scoff, are you saying, so that they can compete against the other sex and ultimately win more, you believe high school students will declare themselves an opposite sex?



@Ooh-Rah - Yes, I am saying that someone will do it at some point. Will it be prevalent, I doubt it.  I am saying that a female athlete can use "transgender" as a reason to use PEDs and get away with it.  

I do want to repeat, I think that it's complicated.

There is a Standford swimmer who is taking testosterone to swim on the Men's team.  She is the worst swimmer on the team and was given a spot because she was transgender. 
Switching Teams

Male wants to play Girls HS field hockey:
What to do when a Eureka boy wants to play a 'girls sport'?

HS runner who is biologically male competes against females in HS.
High school runner brings spotlight to Alaska transgender policy

There is a transgender MMA fighter Fallon Fox who fights women.
UFC's Joe Rogan to Transgender MMA Fighter Fallon Fox: 'You're a F***ing Man'


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Feb 26, 2017)

@Sendero - Thanks for clarifying.  The tone of your post would lead someone to believe that you think this will become a widespread "thing" (which it won't) vs. the occasion one-off (which I agree with).


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2017)

It shouldn't be a "thing" at all.  If biological differences are mutable and gender is an imaginary social construction, then what does that say about separating sporting events by real or perceived gender?  We are denying people the ability to competing at the best of their abilities.  Many boys would be dominant in "girls" sports, but they're not allowed to play.  Some girls could compete on boys' teams, and are allowed to do so.  Let anyone who is otherwise physically capable compete in any division of any sport for which they will make the cut.


----------



## TLDR20 (Feb 26, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> No, they shouldn't have let her compete at all.  The drug regimen imparted unfair competitive advantage.  And apparently it worked.
> 
> I don't think we should have separate boys and girls sports.  Have the teams, and let the best people compete.  But if we did that, very, very few girls would be on the teams.  We scream about 'equality' but we're still striving for "separate but equal" when it comes to things that advantage females.



I don't think he would have had an unfair advantage competing against boys. 

The difference in my opinion is that his "PED's" were prescribed by a physician to treat a medically recognized condition. Even the NFL allows players to used banned supplements if it is in conjunction with a medically viable treatment.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 26, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> I don't think he would have had an unfair advantage competing against boys.
> 
> The difference in my opinion is that his "PED's" were prescribed by a physician to treat a medically recognized condition. Even the NFL allows players to used banned supplements if it is in conjunction with a medically viable treatment.



I agree, she probably would have gotten wrecked if she wrestled boys in the same weight class.  That's probably one of the reasons there are boys sports and girls sports.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Feb 27, 2017)

****NSFW****

*



*


----------



## RackMaster (Feb 27, 2017)

Fucking love Joe Rogan!!  "It's a rose.. "  LOL


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Mar 2, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Saw this update today. Rachel Dolezal still insists she did nothing wrong | Daily Mail Online
> 
> _Dolezal told the newspaper that she is currently jobless and feeding her family with food stamps.
> Her friend reportedly helped her pay two months worth of rent and she said she expects to be homeless.
> ...



Well...if you are going to go full retard, then go full retard.

Rachel Dolezal changes her name to Nkechi Diallo | Daily Mail Online


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 2, 2017)

It seems kinda weird that society loves trans-gender people, hates trans-racial people, and hasn't made up its mind about trans-abled, otherkin, etc...
If rachel dolezal told everyone she was a man they would lionize her and bend over backward to accommodate her, the difference being there are far fewer differences between race than between gender. Also, I'll just post this here because I found it pretty entertaining and it's relevant, Ben Shapiro went on Dr. Drew a while ago to debate Caitlyn genders courage award if anyone missed it.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 2, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> It seems kinda weird that society loves trans-gender people, hates trans-racial people, and hasn't made up its mind about trans-abled, otherkin, etc...
> If rachel dolezal told everyone she was a man they would lionize her and bend over backward to accommodate her, the difference being there are far fewer differences between race than between gender. Also, I'll just post this here because I found it pretty entertaining and it's relevant, Ben Shapiro went on Dr. Drew a while ago to debate Caitlyn genders courage award if anyone missed it.



Society "loves" trans people? Where the fuck are you getting that information?


----------



## Il Duce (Mar 2, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Society "loves" trans people? Where the fuck are you getting that information?



Patriotism class


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 2, 2017)

The whole thing of gender identity makes no sense.  You are, or you aren't.


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 2, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Society "loves" trans people? Where the fuck are you getting that information?


OK, maybe loves was the wrong word, my point was the difference between the way people look at trans-gender people and the way people look at other types of trans people is very large and unjustifiably so. It seems inconsistent, to say the least.



Il Duce said:


> Patriotism class


 *sighs*...well played.


----------



## RackMaster (Mar 2, 2017)

Trans-abled idiots need some serious professional help.  I'm not an amputee but I'm disabled and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy (not quick enough of a death ).  And as someone with lifelong mental illness to deal with, we went wrong when we shut down major facilities and stopped locking people up.  If you willingly want to chop off a limb, you need medication and possibly shock therapy.  But they might like the shock therapy.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Mar 2, 2017)

I think if society went back to smacking the shit out of someone for doing dumb shit, trans-whatever the fuck would pretty much be a non-issue. I mean I'm all for excepting people as they are, but I don't like being forced to except something that I've yet to come to terms with. Especially when it comes to people basically lying about who and what they are (gender, race, etc). I mean really if I was dating a chick and all the sudden was informed she had a dick, my reaction ain't gonna be "oh that's okay that you lied to me and I except it because liberal America says I have too". My reaction is going put my butt in jail, and I imagine it would for most dudes. 

How about people lying about being a particular race to government mandated perks, for employment, promotions and the like?

Do we go for full equality and do away with perks? It wouldn't matter then.

I'm still not okay with dudes claiming to be girls using the same bathrooms as my wife and daughters. 

I think people should just be honest with themselves and everyone else.


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 2, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think if society went back to smacking the shit out of someone for doing dumb shit, trans-whatever the fuck would pretty much be a non-issue. I mean I'm all for excepting people as they are, but I don't like being forced to except something that I've yet to come to terms with. Especially when it comes to people basically lying about who and what they are (gender, race, etc). I mean really if I was dating a chick and all the sudden was informed she had a dick, my reaction ain't gonna be "oh that's okay that you lied to me and I except it because liberal America says I have too". My reaction is going put my butt in jail, and I imagine it would for most dudes.
> 
> How about people lying about being a particular race to government mandated perks, for employment, promotions and the like?
> 
> ...



Well I'm bigger and stronger than you and I think you need to get slapped for being a bitch...

Where does that line stop?

Also the word you are looking for is "accept".


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 2, 2017)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think if society went back to smacking the shit out of someone for doing dumb shit, trans-whatever the fuck would pretty much be a non-issue. I mean I'm all for excepting people as they are, but I don't like being forced to except something that I've yet to come to terms with. Especially when it comes to people basically lying about who and what they are (gender, race, etc). I mean really if I was dating a chick and all the sudden was informed she had a dick, my reaction ain't gonna be "oh that's okay that you lied to me and I except it because liberal America says I have too". My reaction is going put my butt in jail, and I imagine it would for most dudes.
> 
> How about people lying about being a particular race to government mandated perks, for employment, promotions and the like?
> 
> ...


Trans people aren't lying they are delusional, and beating them seems immoral, that being said it is perfectly reasonable to expect people with immoral motivations to take advantage of policies meant to protect transgender people. The main problem I see with the "perks" is that the theory behind them is that since minorities face discrimination that institutions should discriminate in their favor, but discrimination manifesting itself in one way is not a good way of fixing another type of discrimination so I don't think they should exist.  As far as bathroom policy the Idea that everyone should be forced to allow something they are not comfortable with to make the tiny minority of Transgender people feel better is insane.


----------



## AWP (Mar 2, 2017)

I think transgender is acceptable and can get behind that. Transspecies or transracial or whatever? Get the fuck out of here.


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 2, 2017)

AWP said:


> I think transgender is acceptable and can get behind that. Transspecies or transracial or whatever? Get the fuck out of here.


Why? Aren't they all delusional by definition? Why should we be accepting of one mental illness and not others?


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 2, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> Why? Aren't they all delusional by definition? Why should we be accepting of one mental illness and not others?



Why should I accept your definition? Do you have the backing of the DSM? You are not a psychiatrist correct? We can only accept and take seriously what the professionals say is or is not a mental illness.


----------



## AWP (Mar 2, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> Why? Aren't they all delusional by definition? Why should we be accepting of one mental illness and not others?



I'm going to be blunt: I learned my lesson from the patriotism discussion. I don't know if you're argumentative or whatever, but our discussions are little more than an "are not/are too" back and forth. I'll only say I think your views on transgender people are wrong. You're entitled to that position and believe in it, so it appears debating you on almost any issue is a non-starter.


----------



## Muppet (Mar 2, 2017)

You know what. Trans or not, I don't give a fuck. Act like a human, I am happy. Don't do retarded shit and be a human. Do I agree with it. I am not sure. Do I think it should not be shoved down out throats? Yes. With that said, I don't care if you are. Be a human. Be a person with honor and I am happy. Bigger things to worry about.....

M.


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 2, 2017)

TLDR20 said:


> Why should I accept your definition?


 You don't have to:

an act or instance of deluding.
2.
the state of being deluded.
3.
a false belief or opinion
the definition of delusion



TLDR20 said:


> Do you have the backing of the DSM?


 Yes, Gender Identity Disorder was indeed removed from the DSM (although gender dysphoria remains) But this was not a decision made based off research, but rather a fear of backlash from the transgender community, and wanting to spare their feelings. To date, there has not been a single solid study showing transgender suicide rates can be comparable to those of the general public under favorable conditions. Some studies have made those claims, but so far every one of them has been plagued with flaws:Study: Transgenderism Not A Mental Illness 

Why Gender Dysphoria Should No Longer Be Considered a Medical Disorder
"Yet critics of the “GID” category respond that, in fact, the _DSM_ inclusion of what amounts to their identities results in more harm than good. They likenthe inclusion of “GID” to the _DSM_’s former inclusion of homosexuality, saying that it medicalizes them and treats them as diseased rather than just different." 

These are not scientific arguments based on research, And the likening this to homosexuals once being on the DSM neglects the fact that that was MANY years ago and gays don't have a suicide rate of 40%.



TLDR20 said:


> You are not a psychiatrist correct? We can only accept and take seriously what the professionals say is or is not a mental illness.



Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’

Well, there is an example of one of the most respected psychologists alive, who studies specifically transgenderism and has for most of his career saying exactly that.


----------



## pardus (Mar 2, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> Why? Aren't they all delusional by definition? Why should we be accepting of one mental illness and not others?



Do some research on biology, and how sex is determined at an embryonic stage. 
There is far greater/some "justification" for transgender, and none for transspecies.

You also seem like someone looking to argue with people for whatever reason you see fit, that is not going to go down well on this site. bear that in mind. Understand?


----------



## TLDR20 (Mar 2, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> You don't have to:
> 
> an act or instance of deluding.
> 2.
> ...



Carlo, I don't need to justify anything here. You are being a troll, at best...

Everything you posted backs me up. The medical community, as an enormous percentage backs transgendered people as having a legitimitate non-sick state. Psychology, and psychiatry  are different, one is backed by medicine(psychiatry), the other is a soft science, thanks for pointing that out for us. 

I won't be the one who bans you, but when you are banned I want you to imagine it was me who did it...


----------



## pardus (Mar 2, 2017)

@carlo amedio I will not respond to your PM.
Post anything you want to say here.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 2, 2017)

I guess some folks in this thread thought this movie was a documentary:


----------



## carlo amedio (Mar 3, 2017)

pardus said:


> @carlo amedio I will not respond to your PM.
> Post anything you want to say here.


I sent you a PM because  I did not want to derail this thread, as all of my questions were off topic. I honestly believe everything I said and those are my genuine opinions, but now that I've seen this:


TLDR20 said:


> I won't be the one who bans you, but when you are banned I want you to imagine it was me who did it...



I will not be posting anything anymore for fear of being banned. I'm sorry if I've upset anyone, I was genuinely just trying to share my opinions. Thank you all.


----------



## policemedic (Mar 3, 2017)

carlo amedio said:


> It seems kinda weird that society loves trans-gender people, hates trans-racial people, and hasn't made up its mind about trans-abled, otherkin, etc...
> If rachel dolezal told everyone she was a man they would lionize her and bend over backward to accommodate her, the difference being there are far fewer differences between race than between gender. Also, I'll just post this here because I found it pretty entertaining and it's relevant, Ben Shapiro went on Dr. Drew a while ago to debate Caitlyn genders courage award if anyone missed it.



I've read all your posts. It seems to me that you don't know what you don't know, so here is my recommendation to you.

Go find college classes in anthropology, biology, psychology, anatomy/physiology and history.   I suspect political science wouldn't hurt either. 

This will mean going back to school and finishing what you started. That, by the way, is a prerequisite to success in the military regardless of MOS.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 20, 2017)

Weightlifting: Transgender lifter Laurel Hubbard wins first international outing - Sport - NZ Herald News

I don't know what it would take for the person in the named article to have the correct amount of testosterone:estrogen ratio so that there isn't a competitive advantage.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 4, 2017)

Saw this today, made me think of this thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (May 9, 2017)

WTF is wrong with people: Study: Describing Breastfeeding as ‘Natural’ Is Unethical Because It Reinforces Gender Roles


----------



## Gunz (May 9, 2017)

From Time Magazine... Bearded dude with hairy boobs breastfeeding his kid.




It's not your mom or your dad. It's both. I'm sorry, but that's some fucked-up shit right there.


----------



## Jay_Pew (May 9, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> WTF is wrong with people: Study: Describing Breastfeeding as ‘Natural’ Is Unethical Because It Reinforces Gender Roles



This far left liberal lunacy we are seeing daily is a straight out mental disorder.


----------



## racing_kitty (May 9, 2017)

I tried to read the whole PDF, but couldn't snag a copy on the smart phone. I'll try to find it later before I register my opinion.


----------



## Salt USMC (May 9, 2017)

ThunderHorse said:


> WTF is wrong with people: Study: Describing Breastfeeding as ‘Natural’ Is Unethical Because It Reinforces Gender Roles


The abstract makes the point of the article much clearer, and it has little to do with gender roles

http://pediatrics.aappublications.o...000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token


> Medical and public health organizations recommend that mothers exclusively breastfeed for at least 6 months. This recommendation is based on evidence of health benefits for mothers and babies, as well as developmental benefits for babies. A spate of recent work challenges the extent of these benefits, and ethical criticism of breastfeeding promotion as stigmatizing is also growing.1 Building on this critical work, we are concerned about breastfeeding promotion that praises breastfeeding as the “natural” way to feed infants. This messaging plays into a powerful perspective that “natural” approaches to health are better, a view examined in a recent report by the Nuffield Council on Bioethics.2 Promoting breastfeeding as “natural” may be ethically problematic, and, even more troublingly, it may bolster this belief that “natural” approaches are presumptively healthier. This may ultimately challenge public health’s aims in other contexts, particularly childhood vaccination.
> 
> The measles outbreak of 2014–2015 sparked intense, condemnatory discussion of vaccine refusal. This public discussion often emphasized that some in the antivaccine camp believe that vaccines cause autism or contain harmful levels of toxins and impurities. Beneath the concern of many Americans over vaccine safety, a specific …



TL;DR: The medical community's emphasis on breastfeeding as the "natural" solution may cause scientifically illiterate dummies to reject other types of "unnatural", yet effective, child care.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (May 9, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> From Time Magazine... Bearded dude with hairy boobs breastfeeding his kid.
> 
> View attachment 18682
> 
> ...



Mentally deranged people are being glorified by the far left and the media right now. I don't get it, it's so far outside of my universe of understanding I can't begin to comprehend why.

It's like a bunch of fucked up people watched that TV show Taboo and decided "hey that's a good idea, I wannabe like that".

I keep telling myself, it's a sign, maybe God, Allah, or fucking aliens, are going to show up, see this stupid shit and just wipe these loony tunes out, take the rest of us off to the great starship in the sky, or maybe at least Mars. I think I'd rather learn a whole new species, than try to understand these whack jobs...

But if you read the above, maybe I am the one who is crazy? Martians? Come on man, you know there ain't no Martians...or is there?


:-"


----------



## Il Duce (May 9, 2017)

Salt USMC said:


> The abstract makes the point of the article much clearer, and it has little to do with gender roles
> 
> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/137/4/e20154154?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
> 
> ...



Again with the far left liberal lunacy - trying to get people to read and understand before jumping to conclusions, getting angry, and attacking the imagined political beliefs of their enemies.  How dare you Sir, how dare you...


----------



## Red Flag 1 (May 9, 2017)

:.


----------



## amlove21 (May 9, 2017)

Great quote from Dave, and pretty much exactly where I land. Be who/whatever you want. I respect it. But I'll draw the line when you force me to play your game. That applies to pretty much all things, not just trans issues.


----------



## TLDR20 (May 9, 2017)

There is a push to have women breastfeed, but even in my current community(nursing) there is an increased effort to not force or even suggest it as a primary option for women to go this route. Some women through no fault of their own find it difficult to breastfeed. Feeding;) a narrative that the only natural way feed a child is via the breast is both not realistic, and emotionally harmful to women who aren't able to breastfeed.. and can lead to long term issues with attachment, specifically post parting depression.

But fuck a nuanced take on a complicated issue. I just read a shorty version of an abstract on a news webiste and I say these damn deranged trannies are fucking up 'Murica....


----------



## AWP (May 10, 2017)

I learned a new term last week: deadnaming. That's when you call a transgender person by their given name and not their post-transformation name. So, calling Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" is deadnaming and both insulting and demeaning.

I am very supporting of the gay community and their rights...because they right we enjoy, but like @amlove21 I'm not playing the game. Everyone's butthurt over everything these days and I refuse to participate in that sort of nonsense. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite or a bigot, but FFS how far does this go?


----------



## Lefty375 (May 10, 2017)

AWP said:


> I learned a new term last week: deadnaming. That's when you call a transgender person by their given name and not their post-transformation name. So, calling Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" is deadnaming and both insulting and demeaning.
> 
> I am very supporting of the gay community and their rights...because they right we enjoy, but like @amlove21 I'm not playing the game. Everyone's butthurt over everything these days and I refuse to participate in that sort of nonsense. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite or a bigot, but FFS how far does this go?



I'm on a college campus right now where this is big. I don't understand why if someone says call me "Bruce," I would go out of my way to call them by another name. That is spending mental energy on someone who I just probably need to communicate an idea with. I'm very libertarian though, so the motto is live and let live. If you want to be called "blue elephant," no, I'm not going out of my way to figure out your real name because you are now blue elephant to me. I fail to see the big issue.

Put this another way in analogy form:
1. X's government name is Dick. Dick wants to be called "Chad" because he doesn't like the name, Dick. Do you call him Dick anyway even though you know he likes to be called Chad and answers to Chad?

If your answer is yes, then I suppose we just will never agree. Although, if someone could explain this from a conservative standpoint, I would love to understand it.


----------



## AWP (May 10, 2017)

Lefty375 said:


> Put this another way in analogy form:
> 1. X's government name is Dick. Dick wants to be called "Chad" because he doesn't like the name, Dick. Do you call him Dick anyway even though you know he likes to be called Chad and answers to Chad?
> 
> If your answer is yes, then I suppose we just will never agree. Although, if someone could explain this from a conservative standpoint, I would love to understand it.



No, your example is understandable and one with which I agree. The article I saw however broad-brushed with every instance. A good friend of mine went from Sherri to Sammi (to be fair she isn't transgender) and it took me a bit to make the change. Bruce Jenner may be Caitlyn but if we call her "Bruce" on occasion, because for 50-something years she was Bruce, we shouldn't take a beating over an honest mistake. That's the problem I have with the concept because some people are looking for reasons to be butthurt over every little slip. I have a high-pitched, nasally voice and was called "ma'am quite a bit over the phone. So what? Yet I know people who lose their shit when it happens. The person on the other end hears a high-pitched voice and they make the assumption. I don't care and it hasn't happened in years. If it happened tomorrow? So what?

Part of this rant is within the context of transgender people but to me it is symptomatic of a larger problem in our society today. Practically everyone is supposed to be personally offended over everything, no matter how small. We are creating a society of victims.


----------



## Locksteady (May 10, 2017)

pardus said:


> Do some research on biology, and how sex is determined at an embryonic stage.
> There is far greater/some "justification" for transgender, and none for transspecies.


What about:


carlo amedio said:


> It seems kinda weird that society loves trans-gender people, hates *trans-racial* people, and hasn't made up its mind about *trans-abled*, otherkin, etc...
> If rachel dolezal told everyone she was a man they would lionize her and bend over backward to accommodate her, the difference being there are far fewer differences between race than between gender.


Are the two bolded identities equally as 'justified' as the transgender identity to not being referenced as psychological disorders?  If not, why?  If so, what rational justification do all three (or two total if you include only one of the additional two) have for not being recognized as psychological disorders?


----------



## Topkick (May 10, 2017)

amlove21 said:


> View attachment 18703
> 
> Great quote from Dave, and pretty much exactly where I land. Be who/whatever you want. I respect it. But I'll draw the line when you force me to play your game. That applies to pretty much all things, not just trans issues.



I am glad to hear I am not the only one who still thinks this way!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 10, 2017)

AWP said:


> I learned a new term last week: deadnaming. That's when you call a transgender person by their given name and not their post-transformation name. So, calling Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce" is deadnaming and both insulting and demeaning.



Good post Freefalling!


----------



## AWP (May 10, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Good post Freefalling!


----------



## Gunz (May 10, 2017)

Personally, I think Bruce/Caitlyn's whole transformation is based on some skewed but crucial yearning for publicity/respect/sympathy/fame all the above and maybe less about sexuality than she would like people to think. And in that respect I find it hypocritical, self-serving, ego-centric and in many ways false. It has enabled her to reclaim past glory and feed her obvious warped addiction to parade all aspects of her family's private life before everybody else on the planet. A celebrity crisis on rocket fuel aimed at self-aggrandizement.

I do not categorize other people with sexual confusion in the same category as Jenner. To me, "she" remains an incredibly selfish 67-year-old man with a penis.


----------



## Il Duce (May 10, 2017)

AWP said:


> No, your example is understandable and one with which I agree. The article I saw however broad-brushed with every instance. A good friend of mine went from Sherri to Sammi (to be fair she isn't transgender) and it took me a bit to make the change. Bruce Jenner may be Caitlyn but if we call her "Bruce" on occasion, because for 50-something years she was Bruce, we shouldn't take a beating over an honest mistake. That's the problem I have with the concept because some people are looking for reasons to be butthurt over every little slip. I have a high-pitched, nasally voice and was called "ma'am quite a bit over the phone. So what? Yet I know people who lose their shit when it happens. The person on the other end hears a high-pitched voice and they make the assumption. I don't care and it hasn't happened in years. If it happened tomorrow? So what?
> 
> Part of this rant is within the context of transgender people but to me it is symptomatic of a larger problem in our society today. Practically everyone is supposed to be personally offended over everything, no matter how small. We are creating a society of victims.



I think what you're talking about is also counterproductive from the perspective of social justice.  Instead of working towards a more just society it creates a set of 'elite manners' where as long as you make the right sounds, observe the right forms, you're not racist/sexist/prejudiced/etc.  When of course, in reality being a polite bigot is much more damaging than a rude/insensitive ally.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jun 30, 2017)

Huh.

So this is an interesting turn of events.  Transgenders can serve, but they cannot enlist. (at least for 6 more months).

If one did not know better, one would think that the strategy is to wait out the current serving transgenders, not permit anymore to join, and "that solves that".

Pentagon delays enlistment of transgender recruits

Pentagon delays acceptance of transgender recruits and officers


----------



## Frank S. (Jun 30, 2017)

Ocoka said:


> To me, "she" remains an incredibly selfish 67-year-old man with a penis.



A painfully easy solution to that pesky remainder?
Florida man sits on gun, shoots self in penis, police say

"A Jacksonville man accidentally shot himself in the penis early Friday morning when he sat on a gun in the driver's seat of his car, police said.
Cedrick Jelks, 38, was taken to Memorial Hospital by 25-year-old Shanekia Roberts, who told police that Jelks was sitting in his Nissan Altima by himself and came into their home on Freedom Crossing Trail in a panic and ran straight to the bathroom."


----------



## BloodStripe (Jul 23, 2017)

Member of Navy elite special warfare unit transgender

A SWCC has come out as being trans.


----------



## amlove21 (Jul 23, 2017)

NavyBuyer said:


> Member of Navy elite special warfare unit transgender
> 
> A SWCC has come out as being trans.


That took a lot of balls.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Aug 10, 2017)

Bradley/Chelsea/It AKA convicted traitor Manning got a Spread in Vogue Magazine.


----------



## Kakashi66223 (Aug 11, 2017)

About Manning, and the entire transgender reassignment surgery-

What I'm not liking is the military picking up an elective operation paid for out of budget and backlog, that could have gone to reconstructive surgeries, burns, an IED surviving warriors.

Rhetorically, and I'm sure someone has said it,
Don't know how this isn't Fraud waste and abuse if it is on the taxpayers dime.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 23, 2017)

Trump does as Trump is want to do...doubles down. 

Trump sets 6-month time limit for transgender military ban | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Sendero (Feb 24, 2018)

Sendero said:


> I thought this might fit here, if not I'll move it.
> 
> Transgender allowed to compete using testosterone treatments (AKA PEDs) wins State wrestling championships.  I think it's going to be interesting when boys, in the biological sense, realize they can compete and win at high levels as a "girl". Or girls use "transgender" to use PEDs.
> 
> Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs of Euless Trinity wins Texas state girls wrestling title



Mack Beggs, wins his 2nd state title competing against females.  

Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs is booed after second straight state title win

From the article:
_"Beggs began his transition from female to male. To help with the process,Beggs underwent low-level shots of testosterone. According to the UIL, since the testosterone comes from a physician, it is not considered a banned substance."_


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 24, 2018)

Boy wins second girls state wrestling title.


----------



## amlove21 (Feb 25, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> Boy wins second girls state wrestling title.


Um, what? 

This appears to be a PED issue more than anything else.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Feb 25, 2018)

amlove21 said:


> Um, what?
> 
> This appears to be a PED issue more than anything else.



Re-read the article when I caught the email notification.  Confused me at the time.  So PEDs it is.  Should be a DQ.


----------



## Marauder06 (Feb 25, 2018)

With the push for "equality' and given that people can opt in to any gender they want, why do we still have boys and girls teams?  Have one team--or two teams if the sport is popular enough for varsity and JV--and let the best people compete.


----------



## AWP (Mar 6, 2018)

Self-identifying as a college alumni? Check this one off your bucket list. Excuse me while I go fill out an application to Harvard Law....

First woman to try to enter Corps of Cadets says she considers herself alum of The Citadel



> The first woman to try to enter the Corps of Cadets at The Citadel says she left the military school quickly because of the way “outside forces” treated her and that she considers herself an alumni.


----------



## Marauder06 (Mar 6, 2018)

AWP said:


> Self-identifying as a college alumni? Check this one off your bucket list. Excuse me while I go fill out an application to Harvard Law....
> 
> First woman to try to enter Corps of Cadets says she considers herself alum of The Citadel



I visited the Delta compound once.  Can I be a trans-operator or something?


----------



## Red Flag 1 (Mar 6, 2018)

?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Mar 6, 2018)

AWP said:


> Self-identifying as a college alumni? Check this one off your bucket list. Excuse me while I go fill out an application to Harvard Law....
> 
> First woman to try to enter Corps of Cadets says she considers herself alum of The Citadel


This is has come up amongst our Alumni (VMI), we do not consider people who quit during Hell Week alumni...but for some reason the alumni association calls people who got drummer out for money like any other alumnus.


----------



## Locksteady (Mar 8, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> I visited the Delta compound once.  Can I be a trans-operator or something?


Yes but only if you request non-binary magazine rounds.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 25, 2018)

Rachel Dolezal hit with felony theft charge in welfare fraud case

Remember the woman (I am assuming her gender) who pretended she was black....

Rachel Dolezal, the former NAACP chapter leader who resigned after her parents revealed she's not African-American, is facing a felony theft charge in Washington state after she allegedly made false statements to secure nearly $9,000 in food and childcare assistance.

The charges against Dolezal, who changed her name to Nkechi Diallo in October 2016, were first reported by KHQ-TV.

According to court documents, investigators with Washington state's Department of Social and Health Services (DSHS) started looking into Dolezal's finances in March 2017 after the publication of her autobiography, "In Full Color: Finding My Place in a Black and White World."


----------



## Gunz (May 25, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Rachel Dolezal hit with felony theft charge in welfare fraud case
> 
> Remember the woman (I am assuming her gender) who pretended she was black....
> 
> ...




Say _what???!!!_


----------



## CDG (May 25, 2018)

Is that cultural appropriation?


----------



## Locksteady (May 27, 2018)

... Wow.


----------



## Kraut783 (May 27, 2018)

"People didn't seem able to consider that maybe both were true," she said at the time. "OK, I was born to white parents, but maybe I had an *authentic black identity*." 

are we just making shit up now?


----------



## CDG (May 27, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> "People didn't seem able to consider that maybe both were true," she said at the time. "OK, I was born to white parents, but maybe I had an *authentic black identity*."
> 
> are we just making shit up now?



IMO, that's what all that shit is.  "I identify as this".  Well, nature identifies you as something else, so STFU.  I think it's ludicrous that this conversation is even had.  You are what you are.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (May 27, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> are we just making shit up now?



yes


----------



## Box (May 29, 2018)

We have been making shit up for over a decade now...
...its part of an irreversible momentum that has been building since Ross Perot helped the Clintons get into the White House


----------



## SaintKP (May 29, 2018)

And the frogs have been turned gay because of it.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 6, 2019)

I just want to know where she got the $80k !

Race-faker Rachel Dolezal will now appear in court in March on welfare fraud charges | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Cookie_ (Jan 6, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I just want to know where she got the $80k !
> 
> Race-faker Rachel Dolezal will now appear in court in March on welfare fraud charges | Daily Mail Online



Looks like she had a book selling after she was outed.
I imagine she was paid for some media appearances as well.


----------



## Dame (Jan 6, 2019)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I just want to know where she got the $80k !
> Race-faker Rachel Dolezal will now appear in court in March on welfare fraud charges | Daily Mail Online





Cookie_101st said:


> Looks like she had a book selling after she was outed.
> I imagine she was paid for some media appearances as well.



Yup. A book in which she claims chores = indentured servitude.



> "During that same time, it's said she deposited $80,000 from the sale of her memoir,'In Full Color,' while claiming she was surviving on 'a few hundred' dollars a month that was being donated by friends. In Dolezal's memoir, she likened being forced to do household chores as a child to indentured servitude and noted that she developed a 'similar resourcefulness' to what slaves were forced to develop in order for her to complete her chores."


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 6, 2019)

I wish we as a country would stop making stupid people famous.


----------



## Box (Jan 6, 2019)

We have been electing stupid people to office for generations (I wish I could remember the name of that idiot in Congress that was worried Guam was going to capsize) - paying 100 bucks a pop to watch drug addicts and wife beaters play sportsball - 15 bucks a pop to watch drug addicts and child molesters pretend to be gangsters superheroes and  'former black ops' characters in B-movies

As Americans, we love and worship our stupid people.
Its who we are.


----------



## Topkick (Jan 7, 2019)

Box said:


> As Americans, we love and worship our stupid people.



And we have allowed the media and to make reality TV stars out of our politicians. So much drama we can't look away.


----------



## Box (Jan 7, 2019)

I dont think we can put all of the blame on the media - if it didnt get good ratings, they wouldn't push it.   They push it because we love it.  Its why liberals follow Rush Limbaugh - its why conservatives hang on every word that drips out of Maxine Waters' pie hole.
Its the same reason that so many people follow Presidents Trumps twitter account.  
We love a good train wreck !!!

The media certainly helps provide the spark - but "we the people" are the ones that keep the fire going.


----------



## Topkick (Jan 7, 2019)

Exactly. It's not just the media.The media is driven by ratings, and we allow it by giving them those ratings because we love the product they provide. High quality drama.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2019)

And to this I say...good.  Female athletes file complaint over transgender policy

The attachment of Transgenders to the LGB movement will have horrible affects to that movement when the pendulum swings back.


----------



## Arf (Nov 8, 2019)

BloodStripe said:


> Member of Navy elite special warfare unit transgender
> 
> A SWCC has come out as being trans.




I haven’t met her yet, but I hear about her. People don’t really talk shit on her, but she has been brought up in conversation a handful of times. It’s got to be difficult to be in the spotlight like that, I just hope she keeps a good sense of humor about it so that her teammates don’t alienate her.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 19, 2022)

FINA has voted to ban males who identify as women/female from female competition. Will explore open category: FINA Votes to Restrict Transgender Women, Add 'Open' Category


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 20, 2022)

FIFA and World Athletics likely to follow FINA in banning males who identify as women.  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538917422886952960


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

At the risk of offending the trans-whatever fringe, fairness, at some point, has to apply to the vast majority of women athletes, who have trained their asses off to compete against their peers…not some hulking, muscle-bound chick with an Adam’s apple.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Jun 21, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> FINA has voted to ban males who identify as women/female from female competition. Will explore open category: FINA Votes to Restrict Transgender Women, Add 'Open' Category


I always thought sports should have an “open” category, where anything goes in regards to steroids and drugs. I want to see what the human body is actually capable of when you’re dusted and taking gear.


----------



## Polar Bear (Jun 21, 2022)

Gunz said:


> At the risk of offending the trans-whatever fringe, fairness, at some point, has to apply to the vast majority of women athletes, who have trained their asses off to compete against their peers…not some hulking, muscle-bound chick with an Adam’s apple.


I was going to get my Adam’s apple shaved down.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

Polar Bear said:


> I was going to get my Adam’s apple shaved down.



It is not going help. You are ten feet tall.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 21, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> I always thought sports should have an “open” category, where anything goes in regards to steroids and drugs. I want to see why the human body is actually capable of when your dusted and taking gear.



It would also make a good research project…but everybody would have to be equally dusted and taking the same gear to make it fair. Or is “open” open to anybody dosing any kind of gym candy?

You won’t know the measure of human physical limitations until your best performer’s head explodes.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 21, 2022)

Gunz said:


> It would also make a good research project…but everybody would have to be equally dusted and taking the same gear to make it fair. Or is “open” open to anybody dosing any kind of gym candy?
> 
> You won’t know the measure of human physical limitations until your best performer’s head explodes.



At this point PED’s are basically legal. 

If you are a guy who wants to take HGH or testosterone supplements, that are legally supplied, it is as easy as a trip to your primary care physician. If they turn you down, you can try one of the online services. 

PEDs don’t enhance talent. Barry bonds is the best baseball player of all time.Hard stop. He said “oh you guys like home runs?” And went and jacked all the home runs. PEDs didn’t give him  his hand eye coordination. PEDs didn’t get him to where he was, he just wanted to improve what was already the greatest talent we’ve ever seen. 

I think most PED use these days is geared toward injury recovery. It isn’t for massive gains. Players understand now that PED usage doesn’t increase talent, or skill, it aids in recovery. You show up with 20lbs of muscle you are getting flagged these days.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 21, 2022)

PEDs maybe legal for people who don't like to be athletes.  But if you compete in Rugby or Triathlon at amateur level, no TRT for you!


----------



## Muppet (Jun 21, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> At this point PED’s are basically legal.
> 
> If you are a guy who wants to take HGH or testosterone supplements, that are legally supplied, it is as easy as a trip to your primary care physician. If they turn you down, you can try one of the online services.
> 
> ...



Barry Bonds was the shit. IMHO, Maguire not far behind.


----------



## Topkick (Jun 21, 2022)

Muppet said:


> Barry Bonds was the shit. IMHO, Maguire not far behind.


Hank Aaron is and will always be...da man!


----------



## Muppet (Jun 21, 2022)

Topkick said:


> Hank Aaron is and will always be...da man!



Oh yeah.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jun 22, 2022)

Chapelle declines to have theater named for him, after students go after him because of his Netflix special:

Dave Chappelle declines to have high school's theater named after him over backlash to comedy special

edited to add correct link, thanks @Ooh-Rah


----------



## Isiah6:8 (Jun 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> *I think most PED use these days is geared toward injury recovery*. *It isn’t for massive gains. Players understand now that PED usage doesn’t increase talent, or skill, it aids in recovery*.



This is spot on


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> At this point PED’s are basically legal.
> 
> If you are a guy who wants to take HGH or testosterone supplements, that are legally supplied, it is as easy as a trip to your primary care physician. If they turn you down, you can try one of the online services.
> 
> ...



Disagree because PED use will definitely kill you. But hey, to each their own.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 22, 2022)

PEDs are no more likely to kill you than any other medications. 

It's all about dosage and health monitoring. The drugs don't kill you, improper usage does.

That meathead at the gym who's stacking oral dbol with trenbolone but not taking an atomatase inhibitor, watching his cholesterol/blood pressure levels, or paying attention to his liver is probably gonna die in his 40s with B-cup tits.

The likely 90%+ of professional athletes taking these under medical supervision? Probably no more risky than you getting 200mg of TRT once a week at your local clinic.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2022)

You're entitled to have a laissez-faire attitude, and part of my role is to protect my athletes. 

Very few people take "safe" amounts of PEDs that aid in "recovery".  That's the whole point, to allow you to recover at a more rapid rate so that you may increase your chronic training load which is how you're able to produce great power threshold or endurance beyond your genetics will allow you to do. And with that comes negative health consequences.


----------



## Cookie_ (Jun 22, 2022)

It's not a laissez-faire attitude in regards to PED use, it's just not being 30 years behind on the knowledge of use.

Thinking athletes using PEDs is going to kill them in 2022 is like thinking smoking one joint is going to lead to you shooting black tar heroin in a truck stop bathroom; both of those ideas are from the 80s/90s before people knew better.

Maybe the culture is completely different in rubgy because the player pay is peanuts compared to the major sports, but its naive to not understand that the vast majority of athletes are using PEDs in order to stay competitive.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 22, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Disagree because PED use will definitely kill you. But hey, to each their own.



Show me you don’t know what you are talking about, without saying you don’t know what you are talking about.


ThunderHorse said:


> You're entitled to have a laissez-faire attitude, and part of my role is to protect my athletes.
> 
> Very few people take "safe" amounts of PEDs that aid in "recovery".  That's the whole point, to allow you to recover at a more rapid rate so that you may increase your chronic training load which is how you're able to produce great power threshold or endurance beyond your genetics will allow you to do. And with that comes negative health consequences.



Your athletes?

You a doctor now?

I don’t think you honestly have any understanding of what athletes, and people do now. I think your definition of PEDs is also likely absent accurate description because every league, and sport has different definitions. Amateur rugby may follow WADA guidelines, but common drugs like propranolol, adderall, and albuterol are banned as peds. Those all can cause death as well if taken in obscene doses, as can oxygen, water, salt, and other building blocks of life.

If you work for a amateur or professional sports organization, you should talk to your team physician about what are and are not reasons for using TRT, and other PED’s.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 22, 2022)

My son is in Major League Baseball. First as a player, now as an exec. He never used PEDs, and MLB’s rules on steroid use are unequivocal.

I don’t know anything about steroids. All I know is that every player who broke Roger Maris’ 61 home run season were using PEDs: Bonds, Maguire and Sosa, all players I liked and respected. Maris’ record stood for decades until those three came along…and nobody’s done it since MLB brought the hammer down after the allegations came to light. I look at Lance Armstrong’s case and think, yeah, he got an unfair advantage as did Bonds Maguire and Sosa, an extra boost to push them over the threshold by using PEDs.

If PEDs are harmless and good why are they banned almost universally in professional sports, amateur competitions, international sporting events and the Olympics themselves? Has hysteria played a role in this. Should restrictions be lifted or the rules relaxed?


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 22, 2022)

Gunz said:


> My son is in Major League Baseball. First as a player, now as an exec. He never used PEDs, and MLB’s rules on steroid use are unequivocal.
> 
> I don’t know anything about steroids. All I know is that every player who broke Roger Maris’ 61 home run season were dogged by allegations of PED use: Bonds, Maguire and Sosa, all players I liked and respected. Maris’ record stood for decades until those three came along…and nobody’s done it since MLB brought the hammer down after the allegations came to light. I look at Lance Armstrong’s case and think, yeah, he got an unfair advantage as did Bonds Maguire and Sosa,
> an extra boost to push them over the threshold by using PEDs.
> ...



PEDs are banned because they give a competitive advantage. Full stop.

I do not think I or anyone else has argued for the implementation of a steroid program. I’m just saying that drugs that are viewed as PEDs are likely not the ones you think of, and the modern day guy taking PEDs is more likely using them to recover from injury, vice trying to gain 30 lbs of muscle and jack HR’s.

Armstrongs situation is different IMO. All those guys who are competing at that level are doping. If he wouldn’t have been so sanctimonious about it, I do not think it’d have been the thing that it was.


----------



## Gunz (Jun 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> PEDs are banned because they give a competitive advantage. Full stop.
> 
> I do not think I or anyone else has argued for the implementation of a steroid program. I’m just saying that drugs that are viewed as PEDs are likely not the ones you think of, and the modern day guy taking PEDs is more likely using them to recover from injury, vice trying to gain 30 lbs of muscle and jack HR’s.
> 
> Armstrongs situation is different IMO. All those guys who are competing at that level are doping. If he wouldn’t have been so sanctimonious about it, I do not think it’d have been the thing that it was.


 
Ok, gotcha. Thanks.


----------



## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 22, 2022)




----------



## ThunderHorse (Jun 22, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Show me you don’t know what you are talking about, without saying you don’t know what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> Your athletes?
> ...



Yes, my athletes. I'm an executive in a sports league. You're being inordinately obtuse for someone involved in delivery of anesthetics.  PEDs in fact kill people. You clearly don't know what you're talking about or take a different mode de vie than those of us that are charged with both competitive equity and the fact that professional athletes act like complete idiots and have a duty of care.

If you want to talk about adderall, fine and cool.  I know all about specified substances and TUE processes.  TUE's are not public record and thousands are issued a year.  But at the end of the day, if you won a bronze medal in the Olympics and all of a sudden need Adderall, you don't need Adderrall. But Adderrall isn't what I'm talking about generally when I talk about PEDS.  Generally I'm talking a narrow view, specifically in prohibited substances.  Not all sports that are WADA signatories even have the same list. 

Beta 2 Agonist? You know an inhaler for asthma? Specified substance.  Maybe don't compete until you get a TUE.  But, in the sport I work in?  Not really worried about Asthma, I'm worried about the hard shit.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jun 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> Yes, my athletes. I'm an executive in a sports league. You're being inordinately obtuse for someone involved in delivery of anesthetics.  PEDs in fact kill people. You clearly don't know what you're talking about or take a different mode de vie than those of us that are charged with both competitive equity and the fact that professional athletes act like complete idiots and have a duty of care.
> 
> If you want to talk about adderall, fine and cool.  I know all about specified substances and TUE processes.  TUE's are not public record and thousands are issued a year.  But at the end of the day, if you won a bronze medal in the Olympics and all of a sudden need Adderall, you don't need Adderrall. But Adderrall isn't what I'm talking about generally when I talk about PEDS.  Generally I'm talking a narrow view, specifically in prohibited substances.  Not all sports that are WADA signatories even have the same list.
> 
> Beta 2 Agonist? You know an inhaler for asthma? Specified substance.  Maybe don't compete until you get a TUE.  But, in the sport I work in?  Not really worried about Asthma, I'm worried about the hard shit.



I think we are having a fundamental misunderstanding. I will totally and completely agree that using anabolic steroids as a drug of abuse is bad for the body, bad for sports, and will lead to long term health sequelae. I have not, nor will I say otherwise. Being bigger,faster, and stronger because you cheated is not fair to the other people playing the game. 

Where we disagree is that in terms of medically directed PED use, there is not a significant increased risk of death. Many professional athletes that test positive for banned substances have had those substances prescribed and overseen by physicians. That goes from football to tennis and all kinds of athletics in between. 

In many professional sports we see a guy pop for PEDs and then are not told due to player association rules what substances they are. We assume guys are stacking dbol or sust. In reality, today, that isn’t what they are doing.


----------



## Devildoc (Jun 23, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> *Beta 2 Agonist? You know an inhaler for asthma?* Specified substance.  Maybe don't compete until you get a TUE.  But, in the sport I work in?  Not really worried about Asthma, I'm worried about the hard shit.



I did not have asthma but I sucked the hell out of a Primatine Mist before every PFT/PRT; that aerosolized epi helped me take 45 sec-1 full minute off my run times.


----------



## AWP (Jun 23, 2022)

I’d submit, absent any changes in the last decade or so, many NFL players take PEDs and certainly use drugs. Nate Jackson, a former NFL player, described the league’s drug testing policy in detail. It was a joke and like cyclists, you are dumb for getting caught.

Professional sports leagues tend to be sanctimonious hypocrites, but that’s for another thread.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 6, 2022)

GB Triathlon has banned transgenders from competing in women's competition and created an open category: Triathlon becomes the first British sport to ban ALL transgender women


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 17, 2022)

How do I put this nicely. If you still have a penis, you are a man. And if you choose to be called a lady, you're a transvestite, not a transgender.

NJ transgender woman transferred from women’s only prison after impregnating 2 inmates, report says

Somebody please bring this trash heap up on rape charges while we're at it.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 18, 2022)

Federal Judge telling the administration that State's rights is a thing and to get effed. 

Federal judge temporarily blocks Biden administration from protecting transgender students and employees in 20 states


----------



## ThunderHorse (Jul 31, 2022)

Generally, wondering if it's actually becoming safe to come out and say you're done with the bullshit?  

Maybe some of your players just don't want to be a part of your cause? 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...e/news-story/7fc24f1283a16f0fc79072a6b441efa6

NWSL player Jaelene Daniels sits out over refusal to wear pride jersey

Several Rays players break from organization's Pride Night logos, citing religious reasons

The thing I don't understand about this is for years, Sonny Bill Williams wore a blank Blues kit because the sponsor of the Blues was a bank and he claimed for religious reasons he wouldn't wear it.  But I guess he was Sonny Bill.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 20, 2022)

Big, if True. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572313369528635392

Also, looks true as fuck and I'd say nuke the place from orbit. 

You don't have to like Matt Walsh, but eff.


----------



## JedisonsDad (Sep 22, 2022)

Air Force Academy diversity training tells cadets to use words that 'include all genders,' drop 'mom and dad' | Fox News

You can’t tell me what to do, you’re not my real dad.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Sep 22, 2022)

JedisonsDad said:


> Air Force Academy diversity training tells cadets to use words that 'include all genders,' drop 'mom and dad' | Fox News
> 
> You can’t tell me what to do, you’re not my real dad.



I'm really tired of the liberal technocrats trying to remove the culture of historically conservative institutions.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 3, 2022)

So my idiot SiL took my nephew to a drag queen book reading at a library in the Park Hill neighborhood of Denver today...


----------



## Gunz (Dec 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So my idiot SiL took my nephew to a drag queen book reading at a library in the Park Hill neighborhood of Denver today...



Whenever I want political advice I ask an actor. Whenever I want somebody to read a book to me, I ask a drag queen. Chaos is the New Logic.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> So my idiot SiL took my nephew to a drag queen book reading at a library in the Park Hill neighborhood of Denver today...



Hate because that's fucking wrong, not you, the reason.


----------



## AWP (Dec 3, 2022)

Looks like Fat Wendy’s coming to a library near you. “She” does love a good book.


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 3, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> How do I put this nicely. If you still have a penis, you are a man. And if you choose to be called a lady, you're a transvestite, not a transgender.
> 
> NJ transgender woman transferred from women’s only prison after impregnating 2 inmates, report says
> 
> Somebody please bring this trash heap up on rape charges while we're at it.



How do you know they raped them? At least be consistent.

From the link “ following consensual sexual relationships”

Or should we just charge people with rape if it fits our agenda?


----------



## TLDR20 (Dec 3, 2022)

Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show? 


I don’t think they are what you think they are.


----------



## R.Caerbannog (Dec 3, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show?
> 
> 
> I don’t think they are what you think they are.


Yes. I had a buddy who used to do drag shows growing up. I supported him.

This new shit that's going on is targeting kids by perverts that are taking advantage of the gay community. This shit is wrong.

Guys doing drag in the old days was a freedom of expression in their own communities. This library bullshit and targeting of kids is something else. Normalization is wrong.


----------



## Muppet (Dec 4, 2022)

I identify as a conspiracy theorist.

My name is, I/told/you/so


----------



## pardus (Dec 4, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show?
> 
> 
> I don’t think they are what you think they are.


I have, a couple of times, on different continents, it’s both hilarious and confusing as a straight guy, do I think it should be done to kids? No, I don’t. But it was really just a few weird looking girls with penises and a stupid amounts of clown looking makeup dancing around in a strange way which just seemed like a weird comedy show tbh. Relax, the drag show isn’t making anyone gay, and if it does, it wasn’t the drag show’s doing.


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> How do you know it raped them? At least be consistent.
> 
> From the link “ following consensual sexual relationships”
> 
> Or should we just charge people with rape if it fits our agenda?


At least you appropriately called it what it it is. And that's an it.

A transvestite might have "consensual" relationships with people I suppose. But I'm presuming rape. Specifically based on Loudon County. But holy necropost, bringing up a post from months ago shows me your agenda and well we've always run at odds.

(It's a transvestite because it hasn't transitioned, but then again, Stonewall in the UK is trying to tell Lesbians that a penis on a transwoman is a female sexual organ)


----------



## AWP (Dec 4, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> How do you know it raped them? At least be consistent.





ThunderHorse said:


> At least you appropriately called it what it it is. And that's an it.



I could care less where you fall on the topic of transgender/ transexual, but dehumanizing them by calling them "it" is pretty fucked up. Is "they/ them" too hard to type on a phone or are you just a bigot?


----------



## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> I could care less where you fall on the topic of transgender/ transexual, but dehumanizing them by calling them "it" is pretty fucked up. Is "they/ them" too hard to type on a phone or are you just a bigot?



To be frank, everyone is a bigot. Every single person. Just like everyone is a racist.

But for the protection of kids at schools or the protection of women in prisons. (Or anywhere) Don't put men/boys in the spaces of women/girls. 

That person in a NJ prison is a man. It doesn't matter what they says they are. Until they undergo surgical castration and reassignment, they're a man.


----------



## Gunz (Dec 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> Looks like Fat Wendy’s coming to a library near you. “She” does love a good book.



Hubba hubba, just look at that nice pair of _"machine guns"_




TLDR20 said:


> Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show?



Yes.


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## TLDR20 (Dec 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> I could care less where you fall on the topic of transgender/ transexual, but dehumanizing them by calling them "it" is pretty fucked up. Is "they/ them" too hard to type on a phone or are you just a bigot?



That was an honest mistake. Fixed.


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## TLDR20 (Dec 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> At least you appropriately called it what it it is. And that's an it.
> 
> A transvestite might have "consensual" relationships with people I suppose. But I'm presuming rape. Specifically based on Loudon County. But holy necropost, bringing up a post from months ago shows me your agenda and well we've always run at odds.
> 
> (It's a transvestite because it hasn't transitioned, but then again, Stonewall in the UK is trying to tell Lesbians that a penis on a transwoman is a female sexual organ)



Honestly I ignore you. I clicked show ignored posts, and that popped up. That is why I responded. For the most part I have nothing against anything you post because I don’t see it.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 4, 2022)

“It”?

I just assumed that was a typo the first time I read it.

ETA - and it appears it was.  Timely reminder from your one and only staff member for everyone to stay passionate, but go easy on the name calling and personal attacks. Not only does it send these threads tumbling out of control, it takes away from your well intended argument.

I’m going to go back to pruning dead links and removing duplicate memes out of the dot thread now! 👍


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## TLDR20 (Dec 4, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> “It”?
> 
> I just assumed that was a typo the first time I read it.



It was on my part.

Happens sometimes.


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## AWP (Dec 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> To be frank, everyone is a bigot. Every single person. Just like everyone is a racist.
> 
> But for the protection of kids at schools or the protection of women in prisons. (Or anywhere) Don't put men/boys in the spaces of women/girls.
> 
> That person in a NJ prison is a man. It doesn't matter what they says they are. Until they undergo surgical castration and reassignment, they're a man.



We have whataboutism and some stuff without directly addressing the issue, then you contradict yourself (man vs. it).  You are clearly a lawyer.

Have a great day.


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## ThunderHorse (Dec 4, 2022)

AWP said:


> We have whataboutism and some stuff without directly addressing the issue, then you contradict yourself (man vs. it).  You are clearly a lawyer.
> 
> Have a great day.



Hey now, you made a request and I chose to follow with the request. I think that makes me reasonable?


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## R.Caerbannog (Dec 4, 2022)

ThunderHorse said:


> To be frank, everyone is a bigot. Every single person. Just like everyone is a racist.
> 
> But for the protection of kids at schools or the protection of women in prisons. (Or anywhere) Don't put men/boys in the spaces of women/girls.
> 
> That person in a NJ prison is a man. It doesn't matter what they says they are. Until they undergo surgical castration and reassignment, they're a man.


Honestly, even after the surgical man made horror stuff, they'd still be men. Cant change DNA, bone density, and skeletal structures.


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## Muppet (Dec 4, 2022)




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## Steve1839 (Dec 7, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show?


I've been to a British officers' mess...that should count...


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## Dame (Dec 8, 2022)

TLDR20 said:


> Real question? Has anyone here been to a drag show?
> 
> 
> I don’t think they are what you think they are.


I've been to a few, and a drag bar/bowling alley. Cuz Vegas.


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## Dame (Dec 8, 2022)

pardus said:


> I have, a couple of times, on different continents, it’s both hilarious and confusing as a straight guy, do I think it should be done to kids? No, I don’t. But it was really just a few weird looking girls with penises and a stupid amounts of clown looking makeup dancing around in a strange way which just seemed like a weird comedy show tbh. Relax, the drag show isn’t making anyone gay, and if it does, it wasn’t the drag show’s doing.


You need to come to Drink and Drag with me next time you are here. Do you bowl?


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## R.Caerbannog (Dec 13, 2022)




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## ThunderHorse (Dec 13, 2022)

The fuck? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602840878439088128
https://sf.gov/news/san-francisco-launches-new-guaranteed-income-program-trans-community


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## AWP (Dec 14, 2022)

if they can do that with their tax money, let ‘em. No Fed or State dollars to make up the city’s shortfalls…but they probably will anyway.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 14, 2022)

As a country, we ran out of "other peoples' money" a long time ago. And we may soon run out of "notional" money. I'm starting to draw mental parallels between the FTX scandal and what could happen to the US as a whole. Not very well-developed yet and I'm not sure the comparison is a good one. I'll have to think more on it.

Once you get someone hooked on that sweet, sweet government handout, it becomes hard to ever wean them off of it.  That's especially true if the people you are "depriving" of that handout are willing to riot, burn, loot, and kill in reaction.


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## 757 (Dec 14, 2022)




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## ThunderHorse (Dec 15, 2022)

Well this is just interesting 

Player leaves All-Trans hockey game with concussion, writer says | Fox News


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