# It is better not to attack Iran...



## mike_cos (Jan 20, 2012)

Says Michael Hayden, former director of NSA and CIA, and he also thought the Bush administration, as Hayden said during a conference organized by the Center for theNational Interest.
Even according to the former director of the United States only (_and Israel_) have the capacity to attack Iran effectively. But the attack, though militarily effective, definitely would not be able to block the Iranian nuclear program, but rather make it more difficult to prevent it later. Would be interesting to know what think Israel about that...








Here the strategic simulation about iranian nuclear program... build up by Israeli's Institute for National Security Studies


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## DA SWO (Jan 20, 2012)

Nerd


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## SpitfireV (Jan 20, 2012)

A quality post might have been better.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 20, 2012)

The ability to build something, means, you can build it again if something happens to it.     So yes, we might slow it down, but we can not stop it.  Only the Iranians can stop it.   Also there is a strong opinion, that any attack on Iran would only unite the Iranian people.  This could play into the hands of the Mullahs.

Google Neda Agha Soltan,  a young Iranian lady.   There are million of people like her in Iran, the Mullahs are worried more about internal issues than external issues.  I don't think it would be a good idea in helping the Mullahs to unite the Iranian people in their favor.   Unless it is to put the Mullahs on trial for crimes against the Iranian people.


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## Boon (Jan 20, 2012)

I hope their military gets bombed back to the stone age.  Forget occupation.


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## JJ sloan (Jan 21, 2012)

What the hell are you trying to say here?


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## mike_cos (Jan 21, 2012)

Everything and its opposite... as usual...


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## tigerstr (Jan 21, 2012)

Boon said:


> I hope their military gets bombed back to the stone age. *Forget occupation*.


 
I read this analysis from Stratfor about the Geopolitics of Iran and it seems to cover most bases on the subject. I found it very interesting. Maybe not giving them any overt reason to unite is the best option for a gradual overthrow of the regime, by the people.

A friend of mine has been to Iran and discovered that a lot of people - specially young people- like the western way of life and are not fond of their rulers.


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## mekwt (Jan 21, 2012)

3 words, will never happen


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## Boon (Jan 21, 2012)

Yeah, just like a bunch of fanatics will never crash a plane into our buildings either. Never say never.


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## mekwt (Jan 22, 2012)

Well we know that a nuclear attack on Israel will mame & kill Palestenians which will not look good for Iran and they know it. So again, This will not happen.  All this hype is from the Israelis.  Keep an eye out for Egypt.


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2012)

Fomenting an internal overthrow of the current regime would be in everyone's best interests.



mekwt said:


> Well we know that a nuclear attack on Israel will mame & kill Palestenians which will not look good for Iran and they know it. So again, This will not happen. All this hype is from the Israelis. Keep an eye out for Egypt.


 
Do you think the Iranians or Arabs for that matter really give a shit about the Palestinians?


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## Servimus (Jan 22, 2012)

pardus said:


> Fomenting an internal overthrow of the current regime would be in everyone's best interests.


As long as it doesn't turn out like the last one.



pardus said:


> Do you think the Iranians or Arabs for that matter really give a shit about the Palestinians?


 
Iranians? Probably not so much.

Arabs? Yes.


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2012)

Servimus said:


> Arabs? Yes.


 
Why do you think that? The Arabs just use the Palestinians as an excuse to attack Israel, they've never had any love for them.


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## mekwt (Jan 22, 2012)

pardus said:


> Why do you think that? The Arabs just use the Palestinians as an excuse to attack Israel, they've never had any love for them.


 
The Arabs care about the Palestenians, and IMO way to much. The main reason an attack will not happen is because of the *Al-Aqsa Mosque*  the 3rd holiest site in Islam. If this is in anyway damaged, all of Islam will behead shite Iran.


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## mekwt (Jan 22, 2012)

pardus said:


> Why do you think that? The Arabs just use the Palestinians as an excuse to attack Israel, they've never had any love for them.


 
I haven't hears of any arabs attacking Israel. Have you?


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2012)

http://www.stonegateinstitute.org/701/arabs-vs-palestinians



mekwt said:


> I haven't hears of any arabs attacking Israel. Have you?


 
You mean apart from the all the wars that the Arabs tried to eliminate Israel? lol


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## HOLLiS (Jan 22, 2012)

mekwt said:


> The Arabs care about the Palestenians, and IMO way to much. The main reason an attack will not happen is because of the *Al-Aqsa Mosque* the 3rd holiest site in Islam. If this is in anyway damaged, all of Islam will behead shite Iran.


 
Al-Aqsa Mosque is a probably a good example that Islam is being politically manipulated.  It is so Holy, it is not even mentioned in the Qur'an.  It contradicts Sura al-Mā'idah, ayat 20-25.    The Waqf in Jerusalem has even undermined that Mosque. 

PartII,  The Arab nation only care about the Palestinians to control their own people.   There easily could have been peace by now if it was not for outside interference. 

As for Arab wars with Israel.   Over 64 years there are a bunch.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 22, 2012)

mekwt said:


> I haven't hears of any arabs attacking Israel. Have you?


 
Did you mean that as a joke or something?


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## Servimus (Jan 22, 2012)

pardus said:


> Why do you think that? The Arabs just use the Palestinians as an excuse to attack Israel, they've never had any love for them.


Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs all over the ME sympathize with Palestinians a great deal.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 22, 2012)

Servimus said:


> Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs all over the ME sympathize with Palestinians a great deal.


 

That is why Palestinian who live in those Arab countries are kept in camps and not allow to integrate with their host society. I guess you missed what happened in Black September. While they give support to the Palestinians, they do not want the Palestinians in their own country. One of the best unifying forces for the Arab countries have been their hatred for Israel not love for the Palestinians. It gets more comical when you factor the Iranians into the mess.


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## tigerstr (Jan 22, 2012)

Arab *people* care/sympathise with Palestinians, since they are Arabs and Muslims. Control of Palestine (Jerusalem) has been a cause of war since the first Crusade. What *governments* do with their foreign policy, is in most - if not all- cases, not a matter of principle, or care, but of appearances, conditions and interests.

The fact that Arab people care about Palestine, and the religius background of the parties involved, can even get another Arab government reluctantly involved,  because it cannot *appear or afford* to be indifferent, for vatious (internal/external) reasons


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## Servimus (Jan 22, 2012)

HOLLiS said:


> That is why Palestinian who live in those Arab countries are kept in camps and not allow to integrate with their host society. I guess you missed what happened in Black September. While they give support to the Palestinians, they do not want the Palestinians in their own country. One of the best unifying forces for the Arab countries have been their hatred for Israel not love for the Palestinians. It gets more comical when you factor the Iranians into the mess.


I guess I agree with that then.


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## JJ sloan (Jan 22, 2012)

It seems as though the Saudi government has some concerns about Tehran's intentions.  Clearing airspace for Israeli bombers would be a clear indicator of those concerns.  Saudi does not believe that the presence of religious sites will deter Tehran from striking Israel should they procure a nuclear capability.  The rest of the world should follow suit.

No Arab country gives a damn about the Palestinians.  Arabs only care about their religious interests in the area.  As Hollis already mentioned, this is clear in the outcome of Black September.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3765304...t/saudis-clear-israel-bomb-iran/#.Txx6XyO5L8A


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## pardus (Jan 22, 2012)

Servimus said:


> Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs all over the ME sympathize with Palestinians a great deal.


 
Yes, they are Arabs. Did you read the link I posted?


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## Servimus (Jan 22, 2012)

pardus said:


> Yes, they are Arabs. Did you read the link I posted?


Didn't see it before, but I just read it. 

In the interest of objectivity, I would say that the Palestinian diaspora placed a heavy burden on the surrounding states. I don't think the reasons put forth by the Jordanian government are completely baseless. The influx of refugees certainly places a large strain on the country, both financially and culturally. 

I'd say, overall, that the Arab nations surrounding Israel have a multitude of reasons to want the Palestinian refugees out of their countries. Certainly those reasons include no great love for the large group of refugees and an equal amount of dislike towards the Israelis, as you've stated, but also the complications that come with millions of immigrating refugees play a part in the attitude of the Jordanian and Lebanese governments towards the Palestinian refugees.


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## mekwt (Jan 23, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Did you mean that as a joke or something?


 
Yes joke lol


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## mekwt (Jan 23, 2012)

HOLLiS said:


> That is why Palestinian who live in those Arab countries are kept in camps and not allow to integrate with their host society. I guess you missed what happened in Black September. While they give support to the Palestinians, they do not want the Palestinians in their own country. One of the best unifying forces for the Arab countries have been their hatred for Israel not love for the Palestinians. It gets more comical when you factor the Iranians into the mess.


 
This has to be one of the biggest crocks I have heard in years, I currently live in and have lived in or visited all arab countries and all Palestenians are integrated with their host society. The only one is Egypt, which maintains a refugee camp. Jordan has the largest Palestanian population who are well integrated into society.


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## mekwt (Jan 23, 2012)

Servimus said:


> Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs all over the ME sympathize with Palestinians a great deal.


Negative, Most if not all GCC citizens despise the Palestenians since they turned on Kuwaitis in 1990 to join Saddam. They are looked at as parasites by most arabs. Just speaking from fact


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## mekwt (Jan 23, 2012)

JJ sloan said:


> It seems as though the Saudi government has some concerns about Tehran's intentions. Clearing airspace for Israeli bombers would be a clear indicator of those concerns. Saudi does not believe that the presence of religious sites will deter Tehran from striking Israel should they procure a nuclear capability. The rest of the world should follow suit.
> 
> *No Arab country gives a damn about the Palestinians*. Arabs only care about their religious interests in the area. As Hollis already mentioned, this is clear in the outcome of Black September.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3765304...t/saudis-clear-israel-bomb-iran/#.Txx6XyO5L8A


 Thank you sir


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## Servimus (Jan 23, 2012)

mekwt said:


> Negative, Most if not all GCC citizens despise the Palestenians since they turned on Kuwaitis in 1990 to join Saddam. They are looked at as parasites by most arabs. Just speaking from fact


And the Arabs in the Levant?


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## HOLLiS (Jan 23, 2012)

mekwt said:


> This has to be one of the biggest crocks I have heard in years, I currently live in and have lived in or visited all arab countries and all Palestenians are integrated with their host society. The only one is Egypt, which maintains a refugee camp. Jordan has the largest Palestanian population who are well integrated into society.


 
And lebanon. Jordan probably resolved that issue in 1970, about 1/6 live in camps. The PLO then shifted to Lebanon, where they are deprived of basic rights. Most famous is the city of Damour. Then we have Kuwait who expelled some 450,000 Palestinians in 1991. *The Arab league has instructed it's member states to deny citizenship to Palestinian refugees.*

IIRC they are the only people who by the UN are perpetual refugees.


BTW the post following the one I quote, seems to contradict this quote of yours.


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## mekwt (Jan 24, 2012)

HOLLiS said:


> And lebanon. Jordan probably resolved that issue in 1970, about 1/6 live in camps. The PLO then shifted to Lebanon, where they are deprived of basic rights. Most famous is the city of Damour. Then we have Kuwait who expelled some 450,000 Palestinians in 1991. *The Arab league has instructed it's member states to deny citizenship to Palestinian refugees.*
> 
> IIRC they are the only people who by the UN are perpetual refugees.
> 
> ...


 But why were 450,000 Palestenians deported from Kuwait in 1990-1991? Because most if not all started killing Kuwaiti's, helping the Iraqi's detain Kuwaiti Military Officers, Police, etc after all what the Kuwaiti people did for them.

I can see where you think my last post contradicts this one, but its not a contradiction in any way. GCC citizens do despise Palestenians however Palestenians are allowed to work in these countries under strict rules and observation. Most live freely, but they are watched carefully.


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## mekwt (Jan 24, 2012)

Servimus said:


> And the Arabs in the Levant?


 Well I would say most do, especially Israel. Syria & Lebanon has sympathy for them, however Jordanians feel they are trying to invade their country so-to-speak.


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## pardus (Jan 24, 2012)

Speaking of contradictions... lol



mekwt said:


> I can see where you think my last post contradicts this one, but its not a contradiction in any way. GCC citizens do despise Palestenians however *Palestenians are allowed to work in these countries under strict rules and observation. Most live freely, but they are watched carefully.*


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## mike_cos (Jan 24, 2012)

Hey guys.... read this... LOL... 

"...in our view, *nuclear weapons never have been the issue*. Instead, the issue has been the development of an Iranian sphere of influence following the withdrawal of the United States from Iraq..."

more

"...*This is a historic opportunity for Iran. It is the first moment in which no outside power is in a direct position to block Iran militarily or politically*. Whatever the pain of sanctions, trading that moment for lifting the sanctions would not be rational. The threat of Iranian influence is the problem, and Iran would not trade that influence for an end to sanctions..."

Agree?....

By George Friedman - STRATFOR - Considering a US - Iranian Deal


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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

First part, no I don't agree.  A nuclear Iran is one of the greatest threats to stability in our time.  Not only is there the existential threat to Israel and the possibility probability of a nuclear exchange between the two countries, there is also the chance of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorists, especially Iran's Islamist proxies.  And if that weren't enough, a nuclear Shi'ite Iran would most likely spawn an arms race with Sunni Saudi Arabia and maybe several other countries following suit.  And if that happens, then it is only a matter of time before we start seeing mushroom clouds over Western cities.

Second part, yes I agree.  Sanctions aren't seeming to have a major effect on Iran's behavior, and if there is anything that North Korea and Libya have taught the world it's "If you have nukes, no intervention.  Give up your WMD program, say bye-bye to your regime."  I think the only thing that would really cause Iran to abandon its nuclear program is a major revolution or a foreign invasion.  I'm not sure which is less likely at this point, it doesn't seem that either is going to happen.


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## tigerstr (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> ." I think the only thing that would really cause Iran to abandon its nuclear program is a major revolution or a foreign invasion. I'm not sure which is less likely at this point, it doesn't seem that either is going to happen.


 
Foreign invasion?  Even for a coalition led by the US, this would be Iraq on steroids and in a very different landscape. Already posted this Stratfor link in another post, but I think it goes to the core of this issue. "The Geopolitics of Iran: Holding the Center of a Mountain Fortress".

How about organised subversion, on a large scale maybe?  Coupled with surgical/covert strikes to delay/derail their nuclear program?


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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I think that's what we have going on right now, and it doesn't seem to be working.


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## mike_cos (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> And if that weren't enough, a nuclear Shi'ite Iran would most likely spawn an arms race with Sunni Saudi Arabia and maybe several other countries following suit. And if that happens, then it is only a matter of time before we start seeing mushroom clouds over Western cities.


Do you think this for really?... uhm...


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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes, I totally believe it.  Once the world sees (another) nuclear-armed, rogue country out there with little consequences of note, it will spawn a chain reaction.  Especially when the one so armed is a threat to its neighbors.

Nukes do wonders for the foreign policy of those nations that have them.


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## tigerstr (Jan 24, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Yes, I totally believe it. Once the world sees (another) nuclear-armed, rogue country out there with little consequences of note, it will spawn a chain reaction. Especially when the one so armed is a threat to its neighbors.
> 
> Nukes do wonders for the foreign policy of those nations that have them.


 
Totally agree, such a development would destabilise the whole area. On the other hand I dont see a realistic way to avert it,  besides trying to derail/stall the nuclear program (wth various means)  and really trying for regime change.

Lots of people in the international Intel/Foreign Affairs community think that it could be done, but requires some sort of catalyst to get to the next level.


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## QC (Jan 24, 2012)

Let's assume it's all turned to custard and a nuclear attack on Israel is imminent or has occurred. What about fallout? Would this be a consideration for Iran to consider, given the closeness of the Levantine nations and Irans proxies?


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## Marauder06 (Jan 24, 2012)

I think most of Iran's proxies in the region are utilized to attack Israel.  If they successfully nuked the crap out of Israel, I think it would be a blow from which the country of Israel might never recover, and it would obviate the primary need for Iran's proxies.


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## mekwt (Jan 25, 2012)

pardus said:


> Speaking of contradictions... lol


  i am begining to think the word "contradiction" is your favorite word. Look drug dealers live freely in the US however most are being unknowingly watched. How is my statement contradictory?


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## mekwt (Jan 25, 2012)

QC said:


> Let's assume it's all turned to custard and a nuclear attack on Israel is imminent or has occurred. What about fallout? Would this be a consideration for Iran to consider, given the closeness of the Levantine nations and Irans proxies?


 
I dont think Fallout would really affect Lebanon, Syria or Jordan like one would think it would, however I do think fallout will harm the Palestenian. Most Tactical Nukes have a fallout shield of around 60miles from initial blast, and another 60 for prevailing winds, I suspect minimal if any damage beyond the point of a 60 mile radius.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 25, 2012)

I completely agree with Mara here, Iran with a nuke is going to be the most devastating thing to happen in our modern times. Iran without a doubt will attack Israel directly or through a proxy terror group.  The Shi'ite Iran government has and will continue on their path to returning Persian Empire, as well as their religious genocide of all Sunni Muslims and Jews and Christians. Anyone who truly believes that a nuclear armed Iran will not destroy any security/peace in the Middle East is a complete fool.

Israel will attack Iran, probably along with a NATO task force to keep Iran from possessing any nuclear capability. If these new economic sanctions fail (and they most likely will) we will have no choice but to attack Iran. The world’s economic trade security, the Middle East security and peace and the future of Israel all depends on Iran not possessing nuclear capability.

If we already know Iran would attempt a shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz with their chicken shit Navy, WTF do you think they will do if they have a nuclear capability? What do you think the world economics will look like with even a 30 to 90 day shut down/stall of oil trade from the ME, due to Iran simply rattling the nuclear saber? Much less a long term, drawn out military arms race and show down in the ME. Think Europe is in trouble now, think $5 a gallon of gas sucks, yeah let them get a nuke and see what happens.


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## QC (Jan 25, 2012)

The shutting of the Straits is a hollow threat, it's been mentioned here before. Vis a vis the gaining of nuclear arms, the Iranian regime may find it comes at a big price in terms of being prudence and responsability. In other words, more trouble than it was worth.


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## CDG (Jan 25, 2012)

JAB said:


> I completely agree with Mara here, Iran with a nuke is going to be the most devastating thing to happen in our modern times. .


 
Read an interview with Jimmy Carter in this weeks issue of "Time".  He actually said Iran having a nuke would "not be a catastrophe" because they would only have one or two whereas Israel has around 300.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 25, 2012)

QC said:


> The shutting of the Straits is a hollow threat, it's been mentioned here before. Vis a vis the gaining of nuclear arms, the Iranian regime may find it comes at a big price in terms of being prudence and responsability. In other words, more trouble than it was worth.


 
It’s not a completely hollow threat, if Iran can’t sell their oil due to the sanctions they have two options. One they stop their nuclear program and come to the table completely (and I doubt they will) or two they continue with the development of a nuclear weapon and attempt to shut down the strait. We obviously know that Iranian navy will not be able to shut down the strait without getting destroyed by a NATO/US task force. However, if they have a nuclear capability while shutting down the strait, the US and NATO will not attack the Iranian Navy. As Mara pointed out, it will start an arms race in the ME in the same format as cold war. This threat is met with this threat; this blockade is met with this threat, etc.

The problem with the theroy of "more trouble than it's worth" is that Iran will use a nuclear weapon. They will not be leveraged by the fear of collateral damage or nuclear fallout, they will view it as martyrdom and the coming of prophecy.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 25, 2012)

JAB said:


> ...
> 
> The problem with the theroy of "more trouble than it's worth" is that Iran will use a nuclear weapon. They will not be leveraged by the fear of collateral damage or nuclear fallout, they will view it as martyrdom and the coming of prophecy.


 
I agree.  Unless there are some sweeping social changes in Iran in the very near future, the Iranians will arrange for Israel to get nuked (they'll either do it themselves or more likely by proxy) and the world will be standing around wondering, "how did this happen?"


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## mekwt (Jan 26, 2012)

JAB said:


> I completely agree with Mara here, Iran with a nuke is going to be the most devastating thing to happen in our modern times. Iran without a doubt will attack Israel directly or through a proxy terror group. The Shi'ite Iran government has and will continue on their path to returning Persian Empire, as well as their religious genocide of all Sunni Muslims and Jews and Christians. Anyone who truly believes that a nuclear armed Iran will not destroy any security/peace in the Middle East is a complete fool.
> 
> *Israel will attack Iran, probably along with a NATO task force to keep Iran from possessing any nuclear capability. If these new economic sanctions fail (and they most likely will) we will have no choice but to attack Iran. The world’s economic trade security, the Middle East security and peace and the future of Israel all depends on Iran not possessing nuclear capability.*
> 
> If we already know Iran would attempt a shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz with their chicken shit Navy, WTF do you think they will do if they have a nuclear capability? What do you think the world economics will look like with even a 30 to 90 day shut down/stall of oil trade from the ME, due to Iran simply rattling the nuclear saber? Much less a long term, drawn out military arms race and show down in the ME. Think Europe is in trouble now, think $5 a gallon of gas sucks, yeah let them get a nuke and see what happens.


 
Borrowing who airspace? I can without a doubt guarantee KSA, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman & UAE will not allow such a thing. FOX NEWS is not a reliable source of information. As a matter of fact no US news agency is reliable. Thay tend to embellish their stories for ratings. Look I live less than a hours boat paddle from Iran and their is no tension whatsoever. This is all talk to see who has the biggest pants. Iran is out of cards at this point and has no more moves politically. Plus the sanctions will not take affect for another 6 months, which I may add can be reversed before then as the 6 month buffer allows the EU to conduct a economic study on such sanctions.


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## CDG (Jan 26, 2012)

mekwt said:


> Borrowing who airspace? I can without a doubt guarantee KSA, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman & UAE will not allow such a thing.


 
How is it you're in a position to make such guarantees about 6 different nations? You must have missed JJ sloan posting this article earlier in the thread.  Or does this not count as valid news becasue it didn't come from InfoWars or some other "real" news agency?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3765304...t/saudis-clear-israel-bomb-iran/#.Txx6XyO5L8A


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## Marauder06 (Jan 26, 2012)

That was an interesting article.


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## JBS (Jan 26, 2012)

mekwt said:


> The Arabs care about the Palestenians, and IMO way to much. ...





Servimus said:


> Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs all over the ME sympathize with Palestinians a great deal.


 
Huh? "Arabs" hate Palestinians.  There's not as much sympathy as you might think in the Arab world going back over the past 20+ years. 


Here's the Hierarchy of Hate:
_"I against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, my cousin and I against the stranger"_

Cousin Pal is higher up the Hierarchy of Hate than you are, because you are the stranger (foreigner) that's all.


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## JBS (Jan 26, 2012)

As to the thread content, most here know I am a vocal critic of politics, but I very much like the way we've handled Iran in the past 90 days; particularly, I honestly like how we just rolled into Hormuz without too much talk or deliberation.  That's how it needs to be done.  Just show up like a boss.

Our carrier out there reminds me of a Great White shark;  it just surfaces without much warning, there's not  much talk, and when it shows up, every other fish in the sea knows it's not there to fuck around.    As soon as we showed up, Iranian rhetoric quickly changed.  That's how we have to do it.


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## alibi (Jan 26, 2012)

JBS said:


> Huh? "Arabs" hate Palestinians. There's not as much sympathy as you might think in the Arab world going back over the past 20+ years.
> 
> 
> Here's the Hierarchy of Hate:
> ...


Completely agree.

One thing I find interesting is that the original British Palestinian Mandate has the area of Palestine as stretching through Jordan, Syria, and Iraq...funny how I don't see any of those countries offering up land in exchange for peace, like they demand the Israeli's do.  I have some sympathy for the Palestinian people (I wonder if they realize they are getting played for fools), but unless the Arab countries actually sit down and iron out a deal with Israel in good faith that has them sacrificing something (Instead of trying to gradually erode Israeli influence), fuck them.


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## JBS (Jan 26, 2012)

Incidentally, what I jokingly refer to as the "Hierarchy of Hate" is actually an old Bedouin tribal saying that sort of defines the parameters of loyalty among many Pan-Arabic, Semitic, and North African people. 

It's amazing how the human race will allow medieval, tribal, and ancient ideas derived from feuds hundreds or even thousands of years old to dominate their lives in the modern world.


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## Servimus (Jan 26, 2012)

JBS said:


> It's amazing how the human race will allow medieval, tribal, and ancient ideas derived from feuds hundreds or even thousands of years old to dominate their lives in the modern world.


Very true..


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## QC (Jan 26, 2012)

Our legal system stems from such common law perceptions.


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## mekwt (Jan 27, 2012)

CDG said:


> How is it you're in a position to make such guarantees about 6 different nations? You must have missed JJ sloan posting this article earlier in the thread. Or does this not count as valid news becasue it didn't come from InfoWars or some other "real" news agency?
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37653040/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/saudis-clear-israel-bomb-iran/#.Txx6XyO5L8A[/quote]



We can read and listen to whatever we want, however the GCC will not allow this to happen under any circumstances. You can argue this point as much as you like, and continue to dislike/hate my posts but facts are facts.

If and a big if a bombing run were to take place, it would most likely come from Americans based in Doha, or UAE. Bottom Line Israelis are hated in the Gulf as much as Iran. King Abdullah will never let this happen as ling as he is the reigning monarch.

Please note the paper isnt naming sources for such information and is making their own possible scenerio in the story. When something is about to happen in the Gulf we will know because all the Monarchs will address us on live TV, not through a MSNBC source


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 27, 2012)

Mekwt, you are a complete tard and have no idea what you are posting about...

The Israelis already have attacked a nuclear facility in Iraq in the 80's flying over Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and for some reason you think they won’t do it to Iran? LOL you can bet your ass they will, Israel could care less what the Saudi's think about them flying over their stupid desert, just as they did not give two shit’s in 1981.

Your whole argument is fucking retarded if you ask me, historically you are completely inaccurate in predicting what is likely to take place in the future.

Whose airspace are they going to use? LOL who’s ever they fucking decide to go through, just like they did before. Do you really believe the Saudi’s would stop the Israelis from attacking Iran? The Saudi’s want the Iran problem gone more than anyone else in the region.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 27, 2012)

JAB, Like you, I wonder what is difficult for some to add up.

Iran has nuke, that also means nuclear material. Plus
Iran supports Hezbullah, a terrorist organization. Plus
Iran supports Hamas, a terrorist organization. equal

Potential for terrorist to have a dirty bomb or something worse.

To add some more worry, listen to what Iran says about Israel.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> If and a big if a bombing run were to take place, it would most likely come from Americans based in Doha, or UAE. Bottom Line Israelis are hated in the Gulf as much as Iran. King Abdullah will never let this happen as ling as he is the reigning monarch.


 
If we are talking about King Abdullah of Jordan. You might want to see what they have done for Israel. Such as Sayeret Matkal operating out of Jordan during the gulf war. (old news and is already out there)   Also the Kingdom (of Saud) is another place to look at. They are much more worried about Iran than Israel. I am not going into detail on this. I would recheck my facts, If I was you.


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## mekwt (Jan 27, 2012)

JAB said:


> Mekwt, you are a complete tard and have no idea what you are posting about...
> 
> The Israelis already have attacked a nuclear facility in Iraq in the 80's flying over Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and for some reason you think they won’t do it to Iran? LOL you can bet your ass they will, Israel could care less what the Saudi's think about them flying over their stupid desert, just as they did not give two shit’s in 1981.
> 
> ...


 
I only have one point to make in response to your childish post. Saudi Arabia holds alot more say so than you may think and Israel & the USA will need a nod from KSA before any planes from Israel fly over KSA. Again this is will not happen.

Also learn to argue your point without belittling someone like a child. Learn to communicate professionally and people might take you seriously.

Also what makes you an expert on Saudi Policy, I am married to a Saudi, what about you?????


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## mekwt (Jan 27, 2012)

HOLLiS said:


> If we are talking about King Abdullah of Jordan. You might want to see what they have done for Israel. Such as Sayeret Matkal operating out of Jordan during the gulf war. (old news and is already out there) Also the Kingdom (of Saud) is another place to look at. They are much more worried about Iran than Israel. I am not going into detail on this. I would recheck my facts, If I was you.


 
I only recognize 1 King Abdullah and he hails from KSA. My facts are straight as an arrow. Could care less about Jordan as they are Israeli puppets.


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## CDG (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> We can read and listen to whatever we want, however the GCC will not allow this to happen under any circumstances. You can argue this point as much as you like, and continue to dislike/hate my posts but facts are facts.
> 
> If and a big if a bombing run were to take place, it would most likely come from Americans based in Doha, or UAE. Bottom Line Israelis are hated in the Gulf as much as Iran. King Abdullah will never let this happen as ling as he is the reigning monarch.
> 
> Please note the paper isnt naming sources for such information and is making their own possible scenerio in the story. When something is about to happen in the Gulf we will know because all the Monarchs will address us on live TV, not through a MSNBC source


 
Again, you seem to be making guarantees on things you are not in a position to guarantee. First it was the actions of Arab nations, now it's what the GCC and King Abdullah will do.

I don't think Israel gives two shits about who hates them in the Gulf, and they have proven that they are more than willing to utilize the "third-option" when diplomacy or asking for permission fails. Their ultimate goal is the survival of their state and they don't come off as too caring what they have to do to ensure that.

Of course the paper isn't naming sources. Why would they? They do reference sources inside our government and the Saudi's government. Hardly just a journalist making up a scenario. I would be surprised if the Saudi's told us jackshit publicly. They way the paper reports it they would have plausible deniability with the rest of the Arab states in the region. I seriously doubt the King would admit on live TV to helping Israel in a plan to bomb Iran.


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## CDG (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> Also what makes you an expert on Saudi Policy, I am married to a Saudi, what about you?????


 
WTF does being married to a Saudi have to do with knowing their foreign policy?  You're hanging your credibility on the fact you have a close personal relationship with a woman from an Arab state?


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## CDG (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> *I only recognize 1 King Abdullah* and he hails from KSA. My facts are straight as an arrow. Could care less about Jordan as they are Israeli puppets.


 
You know, IMHO, this has some disturbing undertones to it..... Some of the things you have said, and the manner you have said them in, leave me wondering about you.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> I only have one point to make in response to your childish post. Saudi Arabia holds alot more say so than you may think and Israel & the USA will need a nod from KSA before any planes from Israel fly over KSA. Again this is will not happen.
> 
> It's already happend in the past dumbass, pull your head out of your ass already...
> 
> ...


 
Being married to a Saudi, although strange to use as reason to form an opnion, has no bearing on an opinion on what may or may not take place with Iran and their nuclear program. As for my personal life and who I am married to, that is none of your business.


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## mekwt (Jan 27, 2012)

JAB you are clearly a child and need to grow up.  I am finished with your FOX News views of the world, My advice to you would be to leave the US and get some real world experience.

Also I never asked about your wife, and could care less if your married to a man.

Peace I am done with this thread, your on my FuckTard Radar you tool

Although you have NO ties to Israel, how does this make you an expert on Israels policies.


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## CDG (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> JAB you are clearly a child and need to grow up. I am finished with your FOX News views of the world, My advice to you would be to leave the US and get some real world experience.
> 
> Also I never asked about your wife, and could care less if your married to a man.
> 
> ...


 
Sensitive are we?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> JAB you are clearly a child and need to grow up. I am finished with your FOX News views of the world, My advice to you would be to leave the *US and get some real world experience.*
> 
> 
> You mean like the almost 3 years I have spent in that region fighting? Get some experience? I think you should STFU with your “know it all views” and check your damn fire. Your being married to a Saudi brings nothing to the table here.
> ...


 
Nobody is claiming to be an expert on Israel's policies, other than the historical fact that they will kill the shit out of anyone who threatens them, and bomb the shit out of anyone who threatens them and posses nuclear tech, using anyones air space to do so, as they have in the fucking past... Damn you are about dumb.


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## DA SWO (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> I dont think Fallout would really affect Lebanon, Syria or Jordan like one would think it would, however I do think fallout will harm the Palestenian. Most Tactical Nukes have a fallout shield of around 60miles from initial blast, and another 60 for prevailing winds, I suspect minimal if any damage beyond the point of a 60 mile radius.


 
That is one of the most retarded statements I have read in a long time.  Compare your nuke to Chernobyl, we know the Chernobyl circled the globe at least three times.  Low altitude radiation went west (generally speaking) mid-high altitude particles went easterly.  

Chernobyl was an industrial accident, a low order detonation, high order detonation would produce more fallout (I assume ground burst)

The dispersion would be based on atmospherics at the time of detonation.  

The Iranians don't give a rats ass about Arabs, they are Persians.


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## JBS (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt said:


> Also what makes you an expert on Saudi Policy, I am married to a Saudi, what about you?????


I married an Irish lass, which makes me an expert at potato cookery, all manner of beer, and finding four leaf clovers where those with lesser knowledge may wander aimlessly for weeks. I am a "Been-There-Done-That." for Ireland- by marriage.

I do have a plan, too.  If I ever remarry, I will find a nice Japanese girl, since this would make me an honorary Ninja.

Also, last time I checked, women don't play a very big role in either knowing what's up, or being a part of of making things happen in S.A.


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## Marauder06 (Jan 27, 2012)

mekwt, I realize that you probably feel like you're being attacked and you're just defending yourself, but you've offended enough site members in enough different threads for me to start thinking that the problem is with you, not the others.  It might be a good idea for you to take a step back and a deep breath or two.

JAB, resorting to name calling?  I'm disappointed brother, I've seen you make much better arguments about a lot more sensitive topics.

It think the topic of this thread is a discussion worth having, but we're not going to be able to get anywhere if we're distracted by attacking each other.  I'm closing this thread to let things cool off for a while, another staff member or I will re-open it later on.


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## Teufel (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm with Marauder.  Everyone needs to chill out and remember that this is the internet.  Mekwt, I'm not saying you are fully to blame here but sometimes it's best to monitor the net for a few seconds before breaking squelch.


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