# MV-22



## SpitfireV (Jul 14, 2009)

So now that the MV-22 has been in service for a few years and I think is in service in Iraq, how have you guys in the USMC found it? I think it's a cool looking aircraft and an interesting concept but I'd be interested to hear about it from a "boots" position and how it actually performs. 

Chur.


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## 0699 (Jul 14, 2009)

Good aircraft.  I was a very minor part of the OT&E team and got a few hours on it back in the '90s.  In Iraq in 2007-2008 I had the opportunity to fly on it many times and found that they worked out most of the bugs that were identified during testing.  Fast and reliable.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Jul 14, 2009)

Flew in it when they were getting some of the kinks out...they wanted to test it with a full combat loaded platoon of Marines...I gotta say I was impressed, we all had some gallow's humor before hand, but we all liked it, smooth and fast ride! hell I took a damn nice nap in the back on the way back from the landing zone! 

~JohnnyBoy


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 15, 2009)

My question about the Osprey is how will it perform in a jungle environment. In Nam if we didn't have a sit down LZ we could blow one big enough to get a 46 in if there were no more than a couple of trees. Take a tailgate extract where the chopper backed up to the side of the mountain with the tailgate down. We'd crawl under the back rotor then launch onto the Hellgate. Try to beat the gooks to a sit down if we weren't surrounded. Or take a SPIE.

     The Osprey is huge so blowing an LZ is out of the question. Looks like with the tail a tailgate is also impossible. No telling how far a team would have to run to get to an area big enough for a sit down. That leaves the SPIE which would seem to be what would have to be used most of the time. Even for inserts. Having experienced all the above except the SPIE (my experience was the 100 ft. ladder which just predated the SPIE) I can't see how the Osprey would be of much good. Coming out of a hot LZ on a SPIE leaves those on the rig almost helpless. Every gook within sight is trying to cap you and/or the bird. Effective return fire is not all that great. The Osprey is a huge target and most likely heavily armored but it can be brought down. I've tried to look at it from every direction but the Osprey in a jungle environment is a recipe for disaster. A lot of guys would die before some other means would come about. Seems to me that something light weight and smaller would have to be used. That's what made the 46 and the Huey so valuable. They still are but are old and need replaced. Visited the Purple Fox a few years ago. Lot of patched over bullet holes from Nam.

     I realize the Osprey fits the present war where there is plenty of flat ground but there are also mountains. Again, it's limited or so I would think. Jungle warfare may be decades down the road but seems like the Corps would be better off investing all that money into a vehicle that could handle any type of terrain.

     Am I missing something?

6


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## Ajax (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm not a Marine, but I've had my fair share of Osprey rides.  Kind of catches you off guard the first time you take off.  Taxi, taxi, taxi, and off and up like a rocket.  When you take off in a helo, that foward flare kind of negates any g's that might thow you backwards.  Not so with the Osprey.  Hang on to something.  I'd be lying if I said my asshole wasn't puckered on my first ride with all the negative press it had in the testing phase.

For Cayenne's comments, I don't know about jungle stuff.  Everywhere I've been in the jungle, the rotary aviation platforms were either host nation or contracted.  The Osprey doesn't fall into either of those categories.  For insertion, it does have FRIES capability.  I would assume that a unit could conduct a SPIES extraction with this as well, but I haven't heard of anyone doing SPIES in today's full battle rattle (anyone else want to chime in on that?).


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## 7point62 (Jul 17, 2009)

Cayenne6 said:


> Take a tailgate extract where the chopper backed up to the side of the mountain with the tailgate down. We'd crawl under the back rotor then launch onto the Hellgate.




We did a tailgate extract during Typhoon Kate when our AO flooded bad. The 46 had to hover above chest-deep paddy water and the crewchief & right seat had to pull us in with all our gear. It was OK because we got a few nights behind sandbags & wire at LZ Baldy.


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 18, 2009)

Don't know that I ever new the storms name. Googled it to see when it was. Remember it well. Spent the night on a one foot ledge with our backs up against a rock formation. Tied our sling ropes to the guy beside us. We had hit a basecamp that afternoon in the Que Sons and had finally left loaded down with what we had captured just before dark. Stupid PL was trying to make us hump out of the draw in the dark. As point I was feeling the ground with the butt of my 16. Got out on that ledge and it started raining. PL didn't want to stop or go back to flat ground. Got to a point where my 16 hit nothing. Backed up and laid down sticking  the 16 below me to see if there was anything there. Nothing. Told the PL it was insane to try any more and refused to go forward. He refused to go back. Miserable night. Afraid to go to sleep for fear off falling off the ledge. Nod off to feel the guys next to me pulling on the sling ropes to keep me from falling forward or catching the guys beside me falling forward. Only good thing was we were out of most of the wind.

     Next morning when it got light enough to see there was enough open ground 15 feet below us to hold an entire plt. There was another 30 feet of ledge more narrow than where we were. Looked down the draw towards DaNang to see nothing but water in the valley. As bad as the night was I was thankful I wasn't a grunt.

     Wasn't Baldy in the Que Sons? I was on so many LZs I can't remember most of them.

6


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## JJOIFVET (Jul 18, 2009)

Last year I flew in an MH 53 that the airforce has, and this same aircraft was actually on the SON TAY RAID. It still had patched up bullet holes in it. I think it has since been retired, but very cool flying in a chopper that has that much history.


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## Pete S (Jul 18, 2009)

I don't like that the only weapon on the bird is on the ramp with a limited sector of fire.
Supposedly that is going to be fixed by a belly mounted 360 degree fire by wire gun. 
I still haven't heard how the belly gun will affect fast roping. 
Another thing I haven't heard is wheather or not the gun can be fired while the bird is set down.
I have heard from friends still in the Fleet that the rotor down wash while fastroping is 
much worse then the CH-53.

Cayenne6, supposedly the MV-22 takes up similar LZ space as a 46.

Good idea, but I'm not sold on it yet. 
Still wondering why the USMC didn't go with the Blackhawk.


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## 7point62 (Jul 18, 2009)

Cayenne 6, LZ Baldy was about 8 klicks SW of Hoi An. Near Hawk Hill. Our AO was between Dien Ban and An Hoa.


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## 7point62 (Jul 18, 2009)

Pete S said:


> I don't like that the only weapon on the bird is on the ramp with a limited sector of fire.
> Supposedly that is going to be fixed by a belly mounted 360 degree fire by wire gun.
> I still haven't heard how the belly gun will affect fast roping.
> Another thing I haven't heard is wheather or not the gun can be fired while the bird is set down.
> ...



From what I've read and heard from winger buds the 22 is shaping up to be a great aircraft. I know Recon's been jumping from them, I'm sure MARSOC has. I love 46s, bro, I trust them and they got me out of some hot zones, but I'd sure like to ride an Osprey. 

I don't know why the Corps didn't go with the BH, but it was kind of radical to go with the MV22...like the Harrier.


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## 7point62 (Jul 18, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> Last year I flew in an MH 53 that the airforce has, and this same aircraft was actually on the SON TAY RAID. It still had patched up bullet holes in it. I think it has since been retired, but very cool flying in a chopper that has that much history.





That's incredible.


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 18, 2009)

Pete S said:


> I don't like that the only weapon on the bird is on the ramp with a limited sector of fire.
> Supposedly that is going to be fixed by a belly mounted 360 degree fire by wire gun.
> I still haven't heard how the belly gun will affect fast roping.
> Another thing I haven't heard is wheather or not the gun can be fired while the bird is set down.
> ...



Man, it's hard to believe something that big could take up similar LZ space as a 46. I'm a doubting Thomas on that.

A 46 only had two door gunners but there were plenty of windows to pop out. Doesn't look like it on the Osprey. Belly gun would seem to be useless on the ground.

     The Osprey would be a replacement for the 53 in my books. They are as old as the 46s. Blackhawk would have been a better alternative.

6


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 18, 2009)

JJOIFVET said:


> I think it has since been retired, but very cool flying in a chopper that has that much history.



     The day I visited the Fox I wondered how many of the holes had been rounds aimed in my direction. Rode the Fox many a time. A huge honor helping to live their history. Still have one of their Give A Shit cards.

6


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 18, 2009)

7point62 said:


> Cayenne 6, LZ Baldy was about 8 klicks SW of Hoi An. Near Hawk Hill. Our AO was between Dien Ban and An Hoa.



     I'm lost. Hoi An sounds familiar but don't know where it was. Spent  my first three months in country with India 3/5 and operated out of An Hoa and the Hills around the Arizona. Have no idea where Hawk or Dien Ban were. After transferring to 1st Recon I operated in the mountains from NW of DaNang to down to Charlie Ridge then around to the Que Sons.

6


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## Pete S (Jul 18, 2009)

Cayenne6 said:


> Man, it's hard to believe something that big could take up similar LZ space as a 46. I'm a doubting Thomas on that.
> 
> A 46 only had two door gunners but there were plenty of windows to pop out. Doesn't look like it on the Osprey. Belly gun would seem to be useless on the ground.
> 
> ...



Considering how long the rotors on the 46 are I can believe it. 
Think 46 side ways with shorter rotors. 
Similar sized LZ, but the 46 will have one more oval and the MV-22 will have one more square/round.


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 19, 2009)

Pete S said:


> Considering how long the rotors on the 46 are I can believe it.
> Think 46 side ways with shorter rotors.
> Similar sized LZ, but the 46 will have one more oval and the MV-22 will have one more square/round.



     Here is a flick of the new belly gun which would be useless on the ground. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_RWS_RGS_on_MV-22_Slide_lg.jpg  It also shows the two windows. Firing out them would be hampered by the engines.

     Saw them in 05 from the fence surrounding the area. Would like to take a ride but no matter how I look at it the bird/plane wouldn't hold up to the requirements in a jungle environment.

     Like I said, I could be way out in left field. By the time we fight a jungle war it may be older than the 46 and replaced or by something else coming into existence.

6


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## 0699 (Jul 20, 2009)

Pete S said:


> Still wondering why the USMC didn't go with the Blackhawk.



Range, speed, carrying capacity.  Osprey beats the BH in all these categories.  I personally like the BH (got over 1500 crew hrs in them) but after being part of the OT&E team I understand why we chose the Osprey.


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## 7point62 (Jul 20, 2009)

Cayenne6 said:


> I'm lost. Hoi An sounds familiar but don't know where it was. Spent  my first three months in country with India 3/5 and operated out of An Hoa and the Hills around the Arizona. Have no idea where Hawk or Dien Ban were. After transferring to 1st Recon I operated in the mountains from NW of DaNang to down to Charlie Ridge then around to the Que Sons.
> 
> 6





Never thought I'd have to show a Recon guy a map. Baldy is over the hill from An Hoa. Hoi An's up on the coast. I know Ariz and Charlie Ridge. Dien Ban is also on the map, just N of the river.


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## Cayenne6 (Jul 21, 2009)

7point62 said:


> Never thought I'd have to show a Recon guy a map. QUOTE]
> 
> Sooner or later there is a first time for everything. Baldy was farther east than I thought it was. Might be wrong but I doubt I hit that vacation spot. Know for sure I was never at Ho An. So many spots with so little time.
> 
> 6


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## Ravage (Jul 21, 2009)

Speaking of:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ZARmJWGVg[/ame]


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## DA SWO (Jul 21, 2009)

Computer graphics are great, wonder why the didn't use actual footage of V-22 hoist ops.  ;)

For the record, I am a huge fan of the V-22.  I just don't see it replacing all the airframes leadership thinks it can replace.

Of course the video kind of indicates that the C-2 can be replaced by the V-22, which seems plausible.


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## Ravage (Jul 25, 2009)

Its also good for putting a giant glass dome over citys


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## Ravage (Jul 31, 2009)

Download HiRes​


> Members of the Colorado Army National Guard’s 5th Battalion, 19th Special Forces Group (Airborne) fast-rope from a U.S. Air Force V-22 Osprey aircraft at Butts Army Air Field July 11, 2009. “The operators were conducting special operations training through collaboration with the active duty 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), and the U.S. Air Force’s 71st Special Operations Squadron out of Albuquerque, New Mexico,” said 5/19th SFG(A) Commander Lt. Col. Ken Chavez. The V-22 is a multi-mission, tiltrotor aircraft designed to perform missions like a conventional helicopter with the long-range, high-speed cruise performance of a turboprop aircraft. (Official U.S. Army photo by Army Pfc. Kristoff Decloedt)


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## Ajax (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm jealous.


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## Pete S (Aug 2, 2009)

This was posted on another forum.
It goes into the problems with the MV-22 platform.
Many aeronautical terms involved but they are explained well.

http://www.g2mil.com/V-22survive.htm


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## DA SWO (Aug 2, 2009)

Pete S said:


> This was posted on another forum.
> It goes into the problems with the MV-22 platform.
> Many aeronautical terms involved but they are explained well.
> 
> http://www.g2mil.com/V-22survive.htm



The guys that run this site are fucking idiots.  Formerly known as "Soldiers for the truth, (SFTT).  Bunch of douchebags.


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## Pete S (Aug 2, 2009)

SOWT said:


> The guys that run this site are fucking idiots.  Formerly known as "Soldiers for the truth, (SFTT).  Bunch of douchebags.



Never heard of them.
If I knew it was a bad source I wouldn't have posted it.
Sorry about that. :doh:


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## Teufel (Aug 2, 2009)

SOWT said:


> The guys that run this site are fucking idiots.  Formerly known as "Soldiers for the truth, (SFTT).  Bunch of douchebags.



What's wrong with SFTT?  Col Hackworth started the organization and he was a stand up guy.


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## AWP (Aug 2, 2009)

Teufel said:


> What's wrong with SFTT?  Col Hackworth started the organization and he was a stand up guy.




I can't speak for the others and it has been some time since I've visited the site, but they started publishing some questionable articles and seemed to blab the same garbage over and over. They had a high signal to noise ratio.

To me they lost credibility over time.


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## Teufel (Aug 3, 2009)

To be honest I stopped tuning in after Col Hackworth died.  I never really followed SFTT; I was more interested in the articles Hack wrote.


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## DA SWO (Aug 3, 2009)

Teufel said:


> What's wrong with SFTT?  Col Hackworth started the organization and he was a stand up guy.



He lost me when he wouldn't admit he was wrong on an issue.
These are the folks (Pre SFTT) who claimed the M-1 wouldn't hack it against Russian armor, then touted the tank as a wonder weapon after GW1.
He wrote in his 2nd book that the AC-130 crews were pulled from Somalia support to take a R&R in Italy.  I pointed out (with backup docs) that they had been retasked by SecDef to fly in support of Bosnia OPs.  He told me he'd change it in his next book-never did, so much for the truth, guess R&R stories sell better.
Most of the major weapons systems used today were lambasted by these guys.  On another occaision some idiot (AF) claimed CJCS was making 1 day trips to Bosnia for the tax break, they ran with it, never considering the other NATO meeting he was attending in theater.
He may have started good, but he became obsessed with scandals, even if they didn't exist.


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## Ravage (Aug 3, 2009)

Thats a little unprofessional now is it....


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