# The World best Spy Agencies... (not really...)



## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

According to NationalPost.com  (Canadian Source..) the winner is....:

ISI Pakistan (LMAO)

The Rank:

1) ISI pakistan;
2) Mossad israel;
3) Mi-6 UK;
4) CIA USA;
5) MSS china;
6) BND german;
7) FSB russia;
8) DGSE france;
9) RAW india;
10) ASIS australia.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/25/graphic-the-state-of-the-global-spy-game/

I'm curious to know what you think about it....


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## RackMaster (Dec 27, 2011)

I take every thing in the National Post with a grain of salt...  I guess the ISI could be up there because they are pretty good at keeping a secret.  lol


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## Boon (Dec 27, 2011)

RackMaster said:


> I guess the ISI could be up there because they are pretty good at keeping a secret. lol


 
And Bin Laden


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## TH15 (Dec 27, 2011)

I'm surprised to see the CIA that high with all of the shit going on with them right now. Losing a drone in Iran, having spy rings busted in multiple countries....


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## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

CIA is paying the Assange's bill....


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## AWP (Dec 27, 2011)

Considering that the ISI is openly controlling the foreign and domestic policies of numerous countries, including the US, it is kind of hard to argue with their rank.


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## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Considering that the ISI is openly controlling the foreign and domestic policies of numerous countries, including the US, it is kind of hard to argue with their rank.


ISI is controlling or is it controlled by several countries (including US)....


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## AWP (Dec 27, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> ISI is controlling or is it controlled by several countries (including US)....


 
If we controlled the ISI they wouldn't be killing our people in Afghanistan and helping the HQN plan terrorist attacks.


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## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> If we controlled the ISI they wouldn't be killing our people in Afghanistan and helping the HQN plan terrorist attacks.


uhm.....let me see...

http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/13/isi-...gement-relationship-on-solid-footing-cia.html


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## CDG (Dec 27, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> uhm.....let me see...
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/13/isi-...gement-relationship-on-solid-footing-cia.html


 
Political pandering does not mean the reality of the situation is any different than what Free stated.


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## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

Yabadabadoo.
  . Fred Flintstone

This is Us Intel Budget... Do you think ISI Budget is bigger? Or ISI personnel better?...

http://www.fas.org/irp/budget/index.html


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## mike_cos (Dec 27, 2011)

CDG said:


> Political pandering does not mean the reality of the situation is any different than what Free stated.


 
One third of Pakistani spy budget comes from CIA, say officials
http://intelnews.org/2009/11/17/03-110/


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## CDG (Dec 27, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> One third of Pakistani spy budget comes from CIA, say officials
> http://intelnews.org/2009/11/17/03-110/


 
Ok. So we're funding the guys that are facilitating the death of American troops, as well as the guys that allowed UBL to stay "hidden" for so long. This still does not mean the reality of what the ISI is and what it does is any different. It means we don't have the balls to call them on it and pull our funding. We are still the world's predominant superpower, although the gap is rapidly closing. We need to start acting like it instead of trying to be the cool kid on the block in the eyes of the world by throwing money all over the place when we have our own economic shit to worry about.[/quote]


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## SpitfireV (Dec 27, 2011)

The fact they've confused the FSB with the SVR speaks volumes.


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## mike_cos (Dec 28, 2011)

CDG said:


> Ok. So we're funding the guys that are facilitating the death of American troops, as well as the guys that allowed UBL to stay "hidden" for so long.


oh.. the CIA is not foolproof .. never has been, and certainly does not play fair... About UBL... well... On this board anyone knows what I think about it
And that's all I have to say about that. ...


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## TH15 (Dec 28, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> oh.. the CIA is not foolproof .. never has been, and certainly does not play fair... About UBL... well... On this board anyone knows what I think about it
> And that's all I have to say about that. ...


Play fair? And not that I have a dog in this fight, but the magnitude of the cover up that would be needed to conceal a fake UBL death is so enormous and so unlikely that Houdini himself would've botched that magic trick. Someone would've spoke up if it was faked. Or if it were done by a force that wasn't American, IMO.


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## Brill (Dec 28, 2011)

TH15 said:


> Play fair? And not that I have a dog in this fight, but the magnitude of the cover up that would be needed to conceal a fake UBL death is so enormous and so unlikely that Houdini himself would've botched that magic trick. Someone would've spoke up if it was faked. Or if it were done by a force that wasn't American, IMO.


 
And a foreigner would never be President either. :-"


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## Scotth (Dec 30, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> Yabadabadoo.
> . Fred Flintstone
> 
> This is Us Intel Budget... Do you think ISI Budget is bigger? Or ISI personnel better?...
> ...


 
There is no really fair comparison between the ISI and US Intelligence.  The ISI has so few moving parts when compared to US Intelligence it is much easier to be "better" even with smaller resources.

If you ask me, having the US fly in and take out OBL is a pretty big kick in the nuts to the ISI especially on their home court. (Just for argument sake Mike;))

The CIA may drop more balls but they are also juggling a helluva a lot more balls then any other spy agency in the world.  Plus our society tends to make failures much more public then other agencies have to deal with so a CIA failure gets amplified when compared to other agencies.


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## 0699 (Dec 30, 2011)

TH15 said:


> I'm surprised to see the CIA that high with all of the shit going on with them right now. Losing a drone in Iran, having spy rings busted in multiple countries....


 
So what is their ratio of success to failure?  Seems to me that usually we only hear about the failures...


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## mike_cos (Dec 30, 2011)

Scotth said:


> it is much easier to be "better" even with smaller resources.


Holy words Scotth... my wife tells me the same when I pull down my panties...


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## TH15 (Dec 31, 2011)

0699 said:


> So what is their ratio of success to failure? Seems to me that usually we only hear about the failures...


That's true. However, I've read a few articles/seen a few interviews with former employees who say the CIA has gotten away from its traditional role of recruiting spies. Losing "trade-craft" skills or what not and focusing more on traditional military roles, i.e the drone campaign. 

Like I said, I don't have a dog in the fight, just some observations I've made. 1. Former employees saying they don't know how to spy anymore which leads to 2.) A major spy ring busted in the Middle East? Kind of makes sense, I suppose..


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## Brill (Dec 31, 2011)

TH15 said:


> That's true. However, I've read a few articles/seen a few interviews with former employees who say the CIA has gotten away from its traditional role of recruiting spies. Losing "trade-craft" skills or what not and focusing more on traditional military roles, i.e the drone campaign.
> 
> Like I said, I don't have a dog in the fight, just some observations I've made. 1. Former employees saying they don't know how to spy anymore which leads to 2.) A major spy ring busted in the Middle East? Kind of makes sense, I suppose..


 
I assume the sourcing for all this info above is press?   How much do you know about PSYOPS or covert influence?


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## TH15 (Dec 31, 2011)

lindy said:


> I assume the sourcing for all this info above is press?  How much do you know about PSYOPS or covert influence?


I'll try to find the exact sources for you. Bob Baer is a main source for this case, though. There are plenty of articles he's written on the subject. I never said I knew anything about anything, like I said, I've just made observations based off of what I've read.


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## Brill (Dec 31, 2011)

TH15 said:


> I'll try to find the exact sources for you. Bob Baer is a main source for this case, though. There are plenty of articles he's written on the subject. I never said I knew anything about anything, like I said, I've just made observations based off of what I've read.


 
I know man...just busting yer chops on the last day of 2011.  "not being an a-hole" is on my resolution list for next year.


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## pardus (Dec 31, 2011)

lindy said:


> I know man...just busting yer chops on the last day of 2011. "not being an a-hole" is on my resolution list for next year.


 
I gave up on ever hoping to attain that years ago!


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## Brill (Dec 31, 2011)

pardus said:


> I gave up on ever hoping to attain that years ago!


 
My last civilian eval at work noted my tendency for directness in written communications and I recently received a verbal counseling that the negative tone of my emails was blamed for lowering morale on my team.  Um, the reality is that my "boss" (two echelons above me) is micromanaging us and is a single point of failure (all decisions are made by the boss) resulting to total apathy by the team.  So I called the boss out on it and demanded the best I could for a mission statement along with a "commander's intent" (purpose, direction, motivation).

Needless to say it has not gone over well and now I'm considered a shitbag troublemaker (cause I provide unvarnished opinions based on experience) but the team loves me.


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## pardus (Dec 31, 2011)

lindy said:


> My last civilian eval at work noted my tendency for directness in written communications and I recently received a verbal counseling that the negative tone of my emails was blamed for lowering morale on my team. Um, the reality is that my "boss" (two echelons above me) is micromanaging us and is a single point of failure (all decisions are made by the boss) resulting to total apathy by the team. So* I called the boss out on it* and demanded the best I could for a mission statement along with a "commander's intent" (purpose, direction, motivation).
> 
> Needless to say it *has not gone over well and now I'm considered a shitbag troublemaker* (cause I provide unvarnished opinions based on experience) *but the team loves me*.


 
I walked that walk once, didn't end up well for me career wise, but morally I'm happy with the stand I made.


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## Brill (Dec 31, 2011)

pardus said:


> I walked that walk once, didn't end up well for me career wise, but morally I'm happy with the stand I made.


 
I'm trying to curtail my assignment (3 and 1/2 years early) because this place is so f'd up but the USG has threatened to charge me $32K to recup PCS costs.  Bad thing is the issue (micromanagement, single point of failure, stovepiping, etc) is well known by damn near everyone but yet the situation has gone on for 18 months with the end being 18 more months.  The Peter Principle is alive and well within the USG, at least in my organization.

My boss is NOT supportive of my Guard stuff either and actually claimed they could deny me going on orders for 3 months!  I could go on and on and on...


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## pardus (Dec 31, 2011)

That's fucked up. Sorry to hear that. 32K is a lot of money!

I bet you could hire some ex KGB guy for a lot less than that to "fix" your problem :-"

I'm pretty sure Border Patrol has discriminated against me because of my Guard service. I think they've thrown me out of the hiring process because of it. I'm not quite sure yet.


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## Ravage (Jan 1, 2012)

Boon said:


> And Bin Laden


 
Not more they don't :)


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## Etype (Jan 4, 2012)

TH15 said:


> I'm surprised to see the CIA that high with all of the shit going on with them right now. Losing a drone in Iran, having spy rings busted in multiple countries....


It may have to do with them doing multitudes more work in denied environments.  I'm sure Iran would lose a couple drones too, if they had a couple hundred of them in the air at any one time.  If the CIA wanted some apologetics in the eyes of a Canadian magazine, I'm sure they would just "out" all the foreign networks they currently track both in the US and abroad.  It's better for us to know that we're good and let other people (who still wipe their ass with their hand) think they are the best, because of course, a Canadian news source says so.


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## Brill (Jan 6, 2012)

lindy said:


> I'm trying to curtail my assignment (3 and 1/2 years early) because this place is so f'd up but the USG has threatened to charge me $32K to recup PCS costs. Bad thing is the issue (micromanagement, single point of failure, stovepiping, etc) is well known by damn near everyone but yet the situation has gone on for 18 months with the end being 18 more months. The Peter Principle is alive and well within the USG, at least in my organization.
> 
> My boss is NOT supportive of my Guard stuff either and actually claimed they could deny me going on orders for 3 months! I could go on and on and on...


 
So get this shit:

My request to curtail was officially denied yesterday.  I was a "tad" pissed.  So today I go in with a huge f'ing attitude and the boss summons me to the office (fourth time in 6 months) to inform me that the positions are being converted to Emergency Essential and due to my Guard affiliation, I will be transferred at USG cost.

Good for me but this decision was apparently made back in mid-Dec.  I feel like I've been butt raped, which is now a crime according to the FBI.  Swing away Holder, swing away.


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## TH15 (Jan 6, 2012)

I just stumbled upon this article. It is quite lengthy, but offers a lot of insight as to how the intel community (namely CIA) gets a bad reputation, when reality its the leaders who call the shots. Most of you probably know most of what's in here but it's a good read.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/intelligence?page=0,1

First paragraph:


> *"Presidents Make Decisions Based on Intelligence."*
> *Not the big ones.* From George W. Bush trumpeting WMD reports about Iraq to this year's Republican presidential candidates vowing to set policy in Afghanistan based on the dictates of the intelligence community, Americans often get the sense that their leaders' hands are guided abroad by their all-knowing spying apparatus. After all, the United States spends about $80 billion on intelligence each year, which provides a flood of important guidance every week on matters ranging from hunting terrorists to countering China's growing military capabilities. This analysis informs policymakers' day-to-day decision-making and sometimes gets them to look more closely at problems, such as the rising threat from al Qaeda in the late 1990s, than they otherwise would.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 7, 2012)

lindy said:


> And a foreigner would never be President either. :-"


 
Are you implying that the President is a foreigner?


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## Brill (Jan 7, 2012)

cback0220 said:


> Are you implying that the President is a foreigner?


 
I don't buy into the Area 51 UFO junk, armed NSA agents runnig amok all over the US, CIA officers running drugs, however, I do wonder why there is a controversy over his birth certificate...or his college years...or his church attendence...or his religion...or...

Heck man, when Clinton was in power, the only real controversy was whether he was killing his former associates!  Just imagine though the blowback IF BHO was not really born in Hawaii: everything he signed, ordered, represented would have no authority.  Pretty scary so, in my opinion, it's better for the country, nay Cback, the world, to let it go.  The damage to our country and international relations would be too great.


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## TLDR20 (Jan 7, 2012)

lindy said:


> I don't buy into the Area 51 UFO junk, armed NSA agents runnig amok all over the US, CIA officers running drugs, however, I do wonder why there is a controversy over his birth certificate...or his college years...or his church attendence...or his religion...or...
> 
> Heck man, when Clinton was in power, the only real controversy was whether he was killing his former associates! Just imagine though the blowback IF BHO was not really born in Hawaii: everything he signed, ordered, represented would have no authority. Pretty scary so, in my opinion, it's better for the country, nay Cback, the world, to let it go. The damage to our country and international relations would be too great.


 
Do you think that the Clintons would have let that slide? Really? I think the controversy with his religion is pretty fucking stupid. I don't like the Presidents policies, however it doesn't help to overturn them if the only leg you have to stand on is that you sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist.


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## Brill (Jan 7, 2012)

WTF man? You disagree with my post but don't comment?   (Edit: posted this before Cback gave a retort.  However, I still consider him a prostrate checker so that stands.)

Prostrate checker.  Moon River!


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## Brill (Jan 7, 2012)

cback0220 said:


> Do you think that the Clintons would have let that slide? Really? I think the controversy with his religion is pretty fucking stupid. I don't like the Presidents policies, however it doesn't help to overturn them if the only leg you have to stand on is that you sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist.


 
Let what slide?  The killings/suicides?

Reading Is Fundamental.  I didn't say jack or shit about believing that stuff just that it's odd to me there is SO MUCH junk out there on the interwebs and in the ether that is anti-Obama.  Why?  The content of the controversy is really irrelevant but the amount is what intrigues me.


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## RackMaster (Jan 7, 2012)

I think this topic has been beaten to death and is not relative to the threads topic.


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## interrogat (Jan 13, 2012)




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