# Women and the new PT test



## LimaPanther (Sep 24, 2020)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ed51e2-e244-11ea-ade1-28daf1a5e919_story.html

Anyone happen to catch this.


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## Florida173 (Sep 24, 2020)

no pay wall
The Army is rolling out a new fitness test: Will it hold back women?


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## Cookie_ (Sep 24, 2020)

The test is still going to undergo changes in this coming fiscal year; I wouldn't be surprised if we see an alternative event be provided for a reduced score, similar to the marines allowing pushups to replace pullups like the article mentions.

I will say a big part of this is lack of training.  We've seen the females in our unit go from less than 2 reps to an average of 5-6 and a high of 13.


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## Kaldak (Sep 24, 2020)

Cookie_ said:


> similar to the marines allowing pushups to replace pullups like the article mentions.



Is that new or am I that removed? When I was in it was flexed hang, not push-ups. 70sec being a max score.


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## Arf (Sep 25, 2020)

I’m all for gender blind standards. Equality.


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## Andoni (Sep 25, 2020)

In my circles, I've heard the ACFT is all about training. You train everyday for it, you crush it. You don't, you fail. 

Personally, I haven't heard any of "all the females" or "only the females" are xyz, related to the new PT test IRL, but I'm not saying someone, somewhere, isn't bemoaning shitbag females, for good reason. It just hasn't been my experience in casual conversation.

it's been more, "whats the training program for the leg tuck (or whatever they're called). Send it." from males and females.


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## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

Kaldak said:


> Is that new or am I that removed? When I was in it was flexed hang, not push-ups. 70sec being a max score.



Happened back in 2017, so fairly recently. 

This article is old, so maybe the numbers arent quite accurate, but;



> That means there's still good reason to perfect the pullup. Marines will only get a max of 70 points on the upper-body strength event if they choose pushups. And to hit 100 points, Marines will need to do more pullups than previously required.
> 
> Men in the 21-25 age group will need to complete 23 pullups for a max score under the new rules. The max drops as low as 18 for male Marines over the age of 51. Women between 26 and 30 will need 10 pullups for a max score. That requirement drops to eight pullups though age 40, and bottoms out at three when women hit age 51.
> 
> If Marines choose pushups, the best they can score is a 70. Men between the ages of 21 and 25 will need 87 pushups to earn max points. Marine women aged 26-30 would need 50 pushups to get the maximum 70 points. In comparison, soldiers need between 71 and 77 for a max score of 100 points on the Army's fitness test.



11 things Marines need to know about the new PFT, CFT and body composition rules


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## AWP (Sep 25, 2020)

Andoni said:


> In my circles, I've heard the ACFT is all about training. You train everyday for it, you crush it. You don't, you fail.
> 
> Personally, I haven't heard any of "all the females" or "only the females" are xyz, related to the new PT test IRL, but I'm not saying someone, somewhere, isn't bemoaning shitbag females, for good reason. It just hasn't been my experience in casual conversation.
> 
> it's been more, "whats the training program for the leg tuck (or whatever they're called). Send it." from males and females.



While my scenario won't speak to every PT failure...human beings are lazy and when confronted with their own failures will seek to shift the blame. How many men and women were coddled over the last 30+ years with the APFT and age and gender-specific benchmarks? Along comes a new test, a person approaches it with the same "I'll start to run/ push/ sit a month before the test and I'm good" mentality then finds out that's no longer a thing. Male, female...doesn't matter.

I 100% agree that training is what matters here, that's the road to success, but some won't be able to pass no matter how much they train. Some will find themselves devoting more time than they want, some will flat out go permanent profile until they can ETS. There will be whinging, lots and lots of whinging.

---

I think one thing we've lost sight of through this is the old APFT was around in the 80's. 20 years of war in some absolutely brutal environments showed us that the old standards aren't good enough. There's no way to find the best thing for everyone, the mission, whatever requirements you want (strength, endurance, flexibility, etc.) without controversy. Every bro-tein chugging Crossfitter, bodybuilder, triathlete, gym rat, etc. will have an opinion. Scientists, professionals will have an opinion. Generals will have an opinion and not care about the other groups.

It's a shit show and no one should be upset or surprised.

I look forward to the Army caving, reducing the requirements, and then announcing "further research showed that the old standards were unnecessary" blah, blah. It will be plain as day what happened, the internet will gnash digital teeth, and nothing will change except your blood pressure.


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## Cookie_ (Sep 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> While my scenario won't speak to every PT failure...human beings are lazy and when confronted with their own failures will seek to shift the blame. How many men and women were coddled over the last 30+ years with the APFT and age and gender-specific benchmarks? Along comes a new test, a person approaches it with the same "I'll start to run/ push/ sit a month before the test and I'm good" mentality then finds out that's no longer a thing. Male, female...doesn't matter.
> 
> I 100% agree that training is what matters here, that's the road to success, but some won't be able to pass no matter how much they train. Some will find themselves devoting more time than they want, some will flat out go permanent profile until they can ETS. There will be whinging, lots and lots of whinging.
> 
> ...



I know for this first year of assessment anyone (not just females) who cannot complete the requisite number of leg tucks will be allowed to do a two minute plank as a pass/fail alternative; I'd expect to see that change stick around, perhaps with scoring like the Marines do.

IE: two minute plank maxes out the plank, but is only worth 70 points on the PT test, which is enough point to hit bare minimum for the "heavy" MOS scores (combat arms).


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## Andoni (Sep 25, 2020)

AWP said:


> There's no way to find the best thing for everyone, the mission, whatever requirements you want (strength, endurance, flexibility, etc.) without controversy.


This makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't think of it like that. Thanks!


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