# Making a Murderer (Netflix)



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2015)

Anyone watching this?

I'm thru the 1st episode - likely going to binge thru it this weekend -

Making a Murderer


----------



## MilkTruckCoPilot (Dec 30, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Anyone watching this?
> 
> I'm thru the 1st episode - likely going to binge thru it this weekend -
> 
> Making a Murderer



No but I saw the documentary on a crime show a few years ago that this is based on. Fuck that guy and his nephew. They kept a girl chained to his bed so they could rape her, then killed her and dumped her in a barrel. Fuck both of them twice...in the ear.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2015)

@MilkTruckCoPilot - prefacing this with the fact that the updated show is from the families' point of view...it may be worth your watch.  It is pretty clear that the local sheriff dept. had it in for that whole family, especially Avery.  I've not finished the series yet, and I was recently made aware of another podcast that presents evidence against him not discussed in this latest series; I'll wait til I finish this, and then listen to that.


----------



## Devildoc (Dec 30, 2015)

Have not seen it, but there was show on A&E or Discovery that was very similar, and my wife and I watched that.  Can't recall the name but same format.  The missus and I dig those shows so we'll have to check it out.


----------



## MilkTruckCoPilot (Dec 30, 2015)

Yes the original crime he was charged and served time for was bullshit, turns out it was commited by someone else. 

Sometime after his release, him and his nephew then commited the rape/murder that I was referring to.


----------



## BuckysBadger24 (Dec 30, 2015)

I haven't seen it but I remember the circus it created throughout the state when it happened.  For a good year you couldn't turn on the news without seeing these worthless piles of shits' faces all over it.  Never with a bit of remorse for their actions.  God knows what that poor girl went through in the last days of her life.  Hopefully they get the Dalmer treatment and have the shit shanked out of them.


----------



## pardus (Dec 30, 2015)

I heard about these cases recently on the radio. Interesting. 
My questions are, who/which organization/s prosecuted both cases? If it is the same organization, I'm immediately suspicious. 
What was the evidence in the second case? Solid, DNA etc... or circumstantial? What was the defense given at the second trial?


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Dec 30, 2015)

I am thru the 5th episode now - ummm....that man may not have done this murder.


----------



## Diamondback 2/2 (Jan 1, 2016)

Watched the whole thing, I won't say that the two didn't do it, but based on the evidence presented in the trial, if i was a juror I don't think could state that the two did it without some reasonable doubts.

That said I do believe the Sheriff dept planted evidence, specifically the vehicle key, that was found by a detective who wasn't supposed to be there, that was missed in 6 (that's right Six) prior searches. Also the bullet found in the garage, how did they miss that the first time? Also, the tampering with the evidence seal on the vial of blood wasn't explained at all. I'm not saying the whole thing was a conspiracy on the sheriff's dept, but a lot of unanswered stuff.

Also where was the blood evidence of where she was killed, or any DNA evidence that she was assaulted, killed, dismembered on the property? The burnt bones? I think the defense made its case very well that they could have been placed there. 

Anyway, worth watching, it will definitely make you scratch your head.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 1, 2016)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> That said I do believe the Sheriff dept planted evidence, specifically the vehicle key



The vehicle key!  My wife and I watched that part two or three times in a row..."did we just hear that right?" we kept asking each other???


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 1, 2016)

Thru EP 6. 

I'm as pro cop as anyone, but those mother-F'ers in that town appear to be dirty as fuck. 

You could think the damn judge was in on it too.


----------



## Lefty375 (Jan 2, 2016)

*spoiler*

I have two episodes left now. I don't understand how the jury can say beyond a _*reasonable doubt*_ that he did it. Those are powerful words, and the state didn't seem like they presented that strong of a case to convince me.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 2, 2016)

There was NO blood!  None in the bedroom, none in the garage, no spatters on equipment, no f'ing blood.


----------



## Lefty375 (Jan 3, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> There was NO blood!  None in the bedroom, none in the garage, no spatters on equipment, no f'ing blood.



Exactly, and Steve didn't seem like that smart of a criminal mastermind.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 3, 2016)

This could easily become a thread drift, but just as Lucky referenced above, Steve Avery is not the type who would be able to hide blood splatter thorough out that garage.  The D.A. made his case on the 'fact' that she was killed in the garage...where is the evidence that she was killed in the garage?  There is ZERO - Maybe the defense stressed that more than it was shown in the documentary, but I think I would have stood up there and repeated over and over again that it was physically and scientifically IMPOSSIBLE to show that she was killed in that garage, much less even bled there.

I've never had faith in the jury system, my SIL is a lawyer and the stories about how folks get themselves out of Jury Duty would make your head spin.  That leaves you with the pool of candidates who could not get out of it, or actually want to serve.  From that group the lawyers pick and choose those who might have some experience with the type of case they are trying, or just appear too smart; they are all quickly excused.  What does that leave you with?  It leaves you with a group of people the attorneys  hope/think they can manipulate into thinking their way, or one or two who might actually be qualified to make an intelligent decision. 

It was heartbreaking to see the interview with the juror who had to be excused because of a family emergency.  He came right out and said that there were two or three who had obviously long made up their minds and were going to bully their way to a guilty verdict - and they did.   Quite honestly, that terrifies me.


----------



## amlove21 (Jan 3, 2016)

DONT WATCH THIS SHOW.

Kidding- I powered through this thing in under 2 days- my wife and I haven't been more invested in a show in I can't remember how long. Sad, unreal, heartbreaking, unbelievable, maddening, enthralling- this show was all of it. 

If you want to get a good look at the American justice system, watch the show. I think Ricky Gervais was quoted as saying, "It should be mandatory watching for all Americans."


----------



## Brill (Jan 4, 2016)

amlove21 said:


> If you want to get a good look at the American justice system, watch the show. I think Ricky Gervais was quoted as saying, "It should be mandatory watching for all Americans."



Just imagine the reaction if the convict was a minority.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 4, 2016)

Avery may have been railroaded, but the info within this article could make you believe that he still did it...

Evidence in the documentary you did not see


----------



## RetPara (Jan 4, 2016)

This and multiple other incidents where the jury has preconceptions, prosecutor misconduct, and just plain incompetent defense has made me change my stance on the Death Penalty.

I would highly recommend the Truth and Justice podcast by Bob Ruff, Undisclosed (some bias because of personal connections),


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 4, 2016)

Here is another Podcast to consider.  Ron Rosenbaum and Joe Friedberg are two of Minnesota's most prominent attorneys.   What they have to say about the case is pretty interesting - 

Podcasts


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 4, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I am thru the 5th episode now - ummm....that man may not have done this murder.




SPOILER


I think it's pretty clear in the later episodes that they did it.


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 4, 2016)

This documentary was very well done.  Recommend.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jan 4, 2016)

Watching it finally. Is good thus far.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 5, 2016)

The former DA (Kratz) speaks out.  He adds his spin on the show; I've always thought Avery was guilty, his info just reinforces that for me.  On the other hand, what he has to say does NOTHING to sway my opinion that he and Lenk were dirty as fuck.

'Making a Murderer' DA Ken Kratz: Why Steven Avery Is Guilty


----------



## Brill (Jan 5, 2016)

We are aware that defense attorneys are not sworn in during a trial and their job is to CREATE a sense of doubt about the prosecution's assertions.

I've read that this show is not an obective look at the case but rather slanted towards the defense.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jan 5, 2016)

lindy said:


> We are aware that defense attorneys are not sworn in during a trial and their job is to CREATE a sense of doubt about the prosecution's assertions.
> 
> I've read that this show is not an obective look at the case but rather slanted towards the defense.



Yeah. There is also presumed innocence. That doesn't seem to have been given in this case, through episode 4z


----------



## Lefty375 (Jan 5, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Here is another Podcast to consider.  Ron Rosenbaum and Joe Friedberg are two of Minnesota's most prominent attorneys.   What they have to say about the case is pretty interesting -
> 
> Podcasts



Going to check it out soon .Thanks!


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Jan 6, 2016)

Wisconsin Governor, Scott Walker, says a pardon is a "no go".

Steven Avery claims his two brothers may murdered his victim


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2016)

We're handicapped because the docu is clearly biased in favor of Avery and designed to rile up our emotions. This is a pro-Avery informercial instead of a documentary. Instead of adding the phone calls from jail, they could have spent more time on evidence instead of emotion.


----------



## Frank S. (Jan 8, 2016)

I liked the show better when it was called "the squidbillies".


----------



## AWP (Jan 8, 2016)

Frank S. said:


> I liked the show better when it was called "the squidbillies".



It's sad when one of your posts reminds me of something. 

No one touched upon the inbreeding in that family? How else can you explain so damn many special ed cases in one family? I think one of the deputies made a comment about it and the docu alluded to this, but how many cousins are married to other cousins in that clan?


----------



## Frank S. (Jan 8, 2016)

How 'bout that..? from "making a killer" to innocence lost, starting at the cradle...Pimp that crib, Daddy bad-touch... You can smell the damp rot from the unraked angiosperm leaves in that backyard.


----------



## AWP (Jan 9, 2016)

My wife went from "In Avery's camp" to "He probably did it" once I showed her the info previous posts. Him dropping dimes on his family and the truth about the cat incident iced it for her. One of the brothers pleaded No Contest to sexually assaulting his two daughters, so I really have to question that family's genetic makeup. All of that is on top of a family who are no strangers to law enforcement.

Don't get me wrong, it is a a very good documentary, but focus on what the police did or didn't do rather than the Avery case itself. That's one corrupt and/ or incompetent group of police and lawyers.


----------



## TLDR20 (Jan 9, 2016)

Not done, but here is what I think. Poor dude was put I. Jail for a long time for something he didn't do, that was a miscarriage of justice. 

He got out and killed someone. Piece of shit.


----------



## TH15 (Jan 9, 2016)

I binge watched the series today and thought it was a good show. I agree it's less of a documentary and more of a means to paint the Avery clan in a positive light. His initial imprisonment was a tragedy, there's no doubt about that. And the Manitowac deputies and attorneys involved in that case are corrupt enough to meet the qualifications to be advisers for The Clinton Foundation.

In any event, I think it's pretty clear he did it. It appeared to me that Avery was able to convince himself that he was innocent, or maybe he thought he would get away with it given his prior circumstances. Also, the District Attorney Kratz came off as a steaming pile of douche.

Watching the police interrogate Brendan was pretty sad. The kid clearly has a mental deficiency and it did seem like the detectives were practically and knowingly forming Brendan's story for him.


----------



## Florida173 (Jan 9, 2016)

To much stuff left out of the documentary


----------



## Marauder06 (Jan 10, 2016)

TLDR20 said:


> Not done, but here is what I think. Poor dude was put in jail for a long time for something he didn't do, that was a miscarriage of justice.
> 
> He got out and killed someone. Piece of shit.



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 12, 2016)

I am in the camp he is guilty but the police were also responsible for planting evidence. It almost to me seems that both sides, starting with Steven Avery, were playing a game of cat and mouse. What I mean is, I believe he murdered her, parked the RAV4 in a manner which would seem like someone was planting evidence, and then he tried to burn the evidence (the body, her camera, her cell phone, and any other personal artifacts). He had 18 years in jail to fester and stew a response to a crime he knew he did not commit. Why not try and seek revenge on the Manitowoc County Sheriff Department? Make them look even worse by locking him up again for a crime he "did not commit." Little did Mr. Avery know that burning a body in a fire pit would not be enough heat to disintegrate the body.

Enter in the Manitowoc County Sheriff Department. They come on to the property before obtaining a search warrant and notify the search party that her vehicle is on the property and the location of it. Upon obtaining a search warrant, no key is found until Lenk plants the key that was found most likely when they entered the property without the search warrant, or it was a spare key from her house, provided to him by the roommate in exchange for leaving him out as a suspect. Because you know, reporting a missing roommate four days after she has gone missing is not suspicious.

Who punctured the vile of blood? I don't know. I do not think the taken blood was used, given the lack of the EDTA (though at least one article claims to offer an explanation for this A Scientist Explained Why The Blood Evidence Used In ‘Making A Murderer’ Is Complete And Utter Garbage). His DNA being present in the form of sweat on the key and the hood of the vehicle is suspicious. Obviously it points to him handling those items. I would imagine chopping up a body would make you sweat.

For those who think Steven Avery is innocent and worthy of a pardon, would you want him to be your neighbor?

Edit: Len Kachinsky is also a piece of shit.


----------



## Poccington (Jan 25, 2016)

Ken Kratz is a cunt.

Brendan Dassey's "confession" was fucking insane. How the hell did that absolute circus ever hold up in court? Fucking hell.


----------



## BloodStripe (Jan 25, 2016)

'Making A Murderer': This Letter Ken Kratz Sent Steven Avery Will Leave You Dumbfounded

More of Kratz....

He wants to profit off of Avery. What a chode.


----------



## Ooh-Rah (Aug 12, 2016)

Well shit.  Based only on what I saw on the Netflix show, this is a good thing.  Brendon Dassey (the kid that wanted to leave the first interview to go watch wrestling) got his conviction overturned.

As an aside, I still think Avery did it, just not in the shed as they claim.

Dassey conviction overturned in Teresa Halbach murder


----------



## amlove21 (Aug 12, 2016)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well shit.  Based only on what I saw on the Netflix show, this is a good thing.  Brendon Dassey (the kid that wanted to leave the first interview to go watch wrestling) got his conviction overturned.
> 
> As an aside, I still think Avery did it, just not in the shed as they claim.
> 
> Dassey conviction overturned in Teresa Halbach murder


DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE

Crazy right?!


----------



## BloodStripe (Aug 13, 2016)

Brendon's Mom: Yeah

Brendon: Yeah

Brendons Mom: So I hear they are letting you out of jail,  eh?

Brendon: Yeah


----------



## AWP (Aug 13, 2016)

NavyBuyer said:


> Brendon's Mom: Yeah
> 
> Brendon: Yeah
> 
> ...



Boom! Death row. Book it, done.


----------

