# Experiences with other militaries.



## J. (Jul 19, 2018)

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening everyone,

With so many members of Shadowspear having military experience in multiple fields across the globe I wanted to discuss what your assessments, feedback and criticisms are of other countries militaries that you have worked with. Whether it be training, deployment or combat.

If you do not have military experience please do not comment, this discussion is meant to share information and experiences from people who have been there and done it.


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## J. (Jul 19, 2018)

I worked with South Korea and Australia in Korea a few years ago. As my first training experience with another nation I was extremely impressed with both. The Koreans were some hard chargers. They constantly wanted to improve and learn. We watched a ROK Marine boot camp graduation which was awesome.

Interoperability with the Australians was great, (not just because they speak english). They integrated with us very well and the exchange of information was great. We did a lot of amphibious assault work and if it weren’t for their uniform you wouldn’t know the difference. They did cause us to lose all of our liberty on the back end when we were getting ready to leave but I don’t hold it against them. 


I’ve had Royal Marines in support of my unit here during CONUS training but haven’t really interacted with them enough to have a real opinion. They did a lot of IDF for us and their performance was fast and hits were spot on. Otherwise my only observation is they do seem really fond of the Starbucks on main side.


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## Devildoc (Jul 19, 2018)

I worked with the Royal Marines.  They were awesome, loved every minute.  I thought _our_ Marines were a bunch of alcoholic pervs.  But man, could they shoot.  Great trigger guys, and treated me like one of them.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jul 19, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> I thought _our_ Marines were a bunch of alcoholic pervs.



Well, yeah.


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## Gunz (Jul 19, 2018)

South Vietnamese Regional Force Infantry//training and advisory
ROK Marines//shared company HQ compound
Royal Marines, amphibious assault and vertical envelopment ops, VA Beach
Argentinian Marines (COIM), amphib assaults, Vieques PR

A lot of American Vietnam veterans give ARVN a bad rap, but most of those guys never lived, worked and fought alongside South Vietnamese troops. It's largely an undeserved reputation. 300,000+ died fighting. Our counterparts, with a few exceptions, were dependable and fine troops if well-led. 

ROK Marines were killers. It could be good...or it could be bad. ROE depended upon their mood at the time.

Royal Marines: I shamefully admit we were envious of their berets and relaxed hair regs.

_Commando de la Infanteria Marina_, Argentina: One of the things that initially surprised me about these guys was the number of towheads. I'm not saying they were offspring of Nazi fugitives or anything...


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## Devildoc (Jul 19, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Well, yeah.



We/they are.  But those guys are competitors.

In the barracks:

Me:  "Hey, what are you watching?"
RM:  "Gay porn."
Me:  "Gay porn?  Really?  Ugh..."
RM:  "I like it...."
Me:  "You like it?  Ugh...."
RM:  "Hey, just because I like it doesn't mean I'm going to do it."

Then he sees a lizard skipping along the floor, he kills it, and eats it.

He was in the 50th percentile of the ones I knew.  I loved partying and drinking with them, and in the field, they were stone-cold warriors.


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## amlove21 (Jul 19, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> I worked with the Royal Marines.  They were awesome, loved every minute.  I thought _our_ Marines were a bunch of alcoholic pervs.  But man, could they shoot.  Great trigger guys, and treated me like one of them.



We often jumped with the jump qualified RM guys; they're actually more insane than people here are making them out to be. No one better to be next to in the field, though. 

I have spent a good amount of time with a lot of foreign militaries, but the most with the Norwegians. They're my favorite. Just straight hard ass dudes and extremely professional, both the ARSOF and NAVSOF guys. Can't say enough good things.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 19, 2018)

ICDC, Iraqi NG, Iraqi Army: they aren't worth a fuck, we had a couple of good troops, but the masses were stealing, selling off equipment and weapons (the exception being the commandos, those guys were locked the fuck on).

Black Watch Regiment, those dudes were well equipped, well trained and on point. Befriended a Scotsman who I spent more time asking "wait what, say that again but slower".

Australian EOD, a little bit out there, but to be expected for bomb techs got along great with them when they found our I was from Texas.

Princess Patricias Regiment, that was a crack unit, a little bit of verbal differences, but probably the closest thing I've seen to American light infantry unit.

South Africans, can't remember the unit, some kinda of "special" anyways, dudes were super confident, a bit cocky, and tended to be a bit more talk than I expected. Their equipment was shit, weapons were shit, but they were always bragging. I enjoyed bullshiting with them, but wouldn't be my first pick to walk on to a battle field with.

I've also met a ton of officers from all around the world, while I worked for the Joint Military Training and Rediness Center. It was a mix bag, but most seemed to have about the same basic skill sets. The only ones who stuck out was some Saudi's, as they were fucking rude and snobs.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 19, 2018)

I've worked extensively with many of our allied nations' militaries.  I have enormous respect for all of them and I'm grateful we are all on the same side.  Unfortunately, their abilities tend to trail off into negligibility after anything past the baseline tactical level.  With few exceptions (in fact I can only thing of --maybe-- one), they need American intelligence, logistics (particularly lift) and/or airpower to do just about anything outside of their own countries, or more than standing watch on a peacekeeping mission.


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## AWP (Jul 20, 2018)

The COmmonwealth nations, UK, Canada, AUS, NZ: Good folks, would work with them again. The majority have good personalities, almost all I've worked with knew their jobs. Good dudes. UK officers are a bit "stuffy" at first, but loosen up. Aussie and Canadian officers are pretty chill.

Royal Danish Air Force: Love those guys and gals.

Polish Army: Nope, nope, nope. I have almost no positive experiences with that rabble. YMMV.

Germans: Very stand-offish at first until they get to know you. Efficient, but politics at home and the spectre of WWII haunt them and prevent them from being their best.


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## racing_kitty (Jul 20, 2018)

Got to work with Aussie and UK military guys, mainly EOD and intel. Had a Scotsman for a cartographer. Shit hot at what he did, but barely legible speech when sober. My liver has PTSD from that tasking. 

I also got to work with the same IABDC company for two tours. As people, they weren’t bad in that one company. (“Madam! You got married!! Omar will be sad to hear that, but we wish you luck!”) Quite a few of them had that same kind of crazy, and they didn’t let a fear of death or lack of tools stop them; their improv game was strong. However, there were a few that just weren’t that bright. Doubt they’re alive to realize their stupidity


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## Teufel (Jul 20, 2018)

How has no one mentioned the Royal Marine fascination with nudity in all manner of inappropriate times and places?


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## Deleted member 12579 (Jul 20, 2018)

I worked around the British Desert Rats during Desert Storm. I can't say enough good about them. Hard chargers and they kicked serious ass out there. You would have thought we had known them our entire lives, and they were very honest about everything we asked them about. They really went out of their way to get to know us. Their infantry did a very good job clearing trenches from what I noticed as our advance party team sort of drifted into their sector by accident.

The German army. Only a few of them really went out of their way to get to know us. I was very young so I admit I kept them at arm's length as well. I was under the impression that many of them did not really care for us which further influenced me not to really want to mix with them. I noticed they kept their guns spotless and they were extremely organized. They were also in transition as the Cold War had technically just ended. They were trying to consolidate two armies into one so they were also experiencing growing pains at that time.


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## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2018)

Teufel said:


> How has no one mentioned the Royal Marine fascination with nudity in all manner of inappropriate times and places?



This is true.  Especially their own.


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## Devildoc (Jul 20, 2018)

AWP said:


> Polish Army: Nope, nope, nope. I have almost no positive experiences with that rabble. YMMV.



Good friend of mine is retired now, was a SEAL (we were FMF docs together).  He worked with the Poles SOF, had nothing but exemplary things to say about them.  Unit/level dependent?  I don't know anything about any of them.


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## AWP (Jul 20, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> Good friend of mine is retired now, was a SEAL (we were FMF docs together).  He worked with the Poles SOF, had nothing but exemplary things to say about them.  Unit/level dependent?  I don't know anything about any of them.



I was around 4 different rotations that I can recall. If this is correct, the 12th, 6th, 21st, and 1st brigades around 2009-2011. Task Force White Eagle - Wikipedia

I've heard great things about their SOF soldiers and I'm sure those are true, but the airborne brigade and those infantry units ruined my perception of their army and country.


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## amlove21 (Jul 20, 2018)

Teufel said:


> How has no one mentioned the Royal Marine fascination with nudity in all manner of inappropriate times and places?


Or the lengths that they’ll go to for ‘gay chicken’ literally anywhere? I’m telling you- they’re the apex predator on the ‘fucked up stuff food chain’. It makes our own marines look like the Air Force in comparison... 😎


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## Deleted member 12579 (Jul 20, 2018)

amlove21 said:


> Or the lengths that they’ll go to for ‘gay chicken’ literally anywhere? I’m telling you- they’re the apex predator on the ‘fucked up stuff food chain’. It makes our own marines look like the Air Force in comparison... 😎



Does their Para Regiment behave in the same manner? I've always had the deepest respect for the British and especially the Royal Marines and their Paras.


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## Deleted member 12579 (Jul 20, 2018)

AWP said:


> I was around 4 different rotations that I can recall. If this is correct, the 12th, 6th, 21st, and 1st brigades around 2009-2011. Task Force White Eagle - Wikipedia
> 
> I've heard great things about their SOF soldiers and I'm sure those are true, but the airborne brigade and those infantry units ruined my perception of their army and country.



Were they able to keep their areas of responsibility secured? Looks like they suffered some casualties.


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## Topkick (Jul 20, 2018)

Eagle 92-94 said:


> The German army. Only a few of them really went out of their way to get to know us. I was very young so I admit I kept them at arm's length as well. I was under the impression that many of them did not really care for us



Might have something to do with us drinking their beer and stealing their Fraulein.


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## AWP (Jul 20, 2018)

Eagle 92-94 said:


> Were they able to keep their areas of responsibility secured? Looks like they suffered some casualties.



Casualties are neither indicative of success or failure, just dead people.

I can't speak to their overall battlespace, but considering I watched Afghans walk around FOB Ghazni, unescorted, taking pictures with cellphones, and performing a pace count?* And Ghazni was their brigade HQ? Or how they allowed a convoy to drive over a known IED? I don't have a lot of faith in their performance elsehwere. I have a list of behavior that would shock members of this forum and no, I'm not sharing.

* - Yes, it was reported and yes, it was ignored. KBR threatened to walk off the job. Their management told them if they did their next decision would be "chicken or pasta." Their turnover at that FOB was horrendous.


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## RackMaster (Jul 21, 2018)

I turned in a couple Afghan worker's when we first got to Kabul.  Dude was always standing with a shovel, never working, watching and counting vehicles as they left our annex.  We also found the same vehicles had chalk marks on them the next day.  They were sent to the Croat MP's for "questioning".  Best psrt was the holding cell was an empty working dog pen between two other dog's.  LOL I wanted to stay and watch.

Oh and 2 days later they caught a guy with a miniature map of the camp.  And some time after we were rocketed.


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## Kraut783 (Jul 21, 2018)

A-stan:
British SAS: had a team living in our safe house for a bit in Gardez, great guys, crazy, and professional.
Australian LRRP: Good guys, friendly and knew their shit.
Germans SOF: good dudes, friendly, professional...and shared their beck's beer.

Iraq: 
Ugandan (security): I know not military, but these guys were good, and did not play and were always respectful. Never had any off duty silliness from them, not like the other TCN's in the area.
Georgian: A bunch of thugs, we had opened cases on a bunch of them (theft from civilians, rape...etc), then they left the country to address the issue with Russia.


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## BlackSmokeRisinG (Jul 22, 2018)

Eagle 92-94 said:


> I worked around the British Desert Rats during Desert Storm. I can't say enough good about them. Hard chargers and they kicked serious ass out there. You would have thought we had known them our entire lives, and they were very honest about everything we asked them about. They really went out of their way to get to know us. Their infantry did a very good job clearing trenches from what I noticed as our advance party team sort of drifted into their sector by accident....



Good to hear. My grandfather was a Desert Rat, AA artileryman captured in Africa in 1939. Spent the next 4 years in a POW camp.



RackMaster said:


> I turned in a couple Afghan worker's when we first got to Kabul....
> 
> Oh and 2 days later they caught a guy with a miniature map of the camp.  And some time after we were rocketed.



Ahh, the old hand drawn FOB map LOL.

Iraqi Army- Most did their job pretty well when on missions and did a good job searching cars and people. They seemed to have a good relationship with the population and seemed to care about making Iraq a better place. Some of them would hustle, beg or steal from whomever they could. Several died while we were deployed.

Ugandan and Kenyan security force contractors- They seemed to love searching cars and people coming onto the FOB. Most were really polite and friendly. They didn't seem to be able to judge distance and direction for distant smoke plumes or incoming.


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## BloodStripe (Jul 22, 2018)

I've worked with the Spanish Navy, Spanish Navy Marines, Royal Marines, Maldovia Army EOD, Iraqi Army, and various IDF units. Each had its positives and negatives. 

Highlights: The Royal Marines had an awesome O course with livefire mixed in. Was made extra difficult on the mornings following nights of out drinking those wankers. 

IDF were mostly Sayeret Egoz, and Duvdevan. They were all very professional and as a direct result of them I was promoted to squad leader. I did get my ass kicked by about 20 of them during a training event but then again, that was the point of it.


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## Deleted member 12579 (Jul 22, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> I've worked with the Spanish Navy, Spanish Navy Marines, Royal Marines, Maldovia Army EOD, Iraqi Army, and various IDF units. Each had its positives and negatives.
> 
> Highlights: The Royal Marines had an awesome O course with livefire mixed in. Was made extra difficult on the mornings following nights of out drinking those wankers.
> 
> IDF were mostly Sayeret Egoz, and Duvdevan. They were all very professional and as a direct result of them I was promoted to squad leader. I did get my ass kicked by about 20 of them during a training event but then again, that was the point of it.



Those are supposedly very good Israeli units. Getting your ass kicked by them is no disgrace. I've never heard/read a bad thing said about the Royal Marines.


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## DasBoot (Jul 22, 2018)

Teufel said:


> How has no one mentioned the Royal Marine fascination with nudity in all manner of inappropriate times and places?





amlove21 said:


> Or the lengths that they’ll go to for ‘gay chicken’ literally anywhere? I’m telling you- they’re the apex predator on the ‘fucked up stuff food chain’. It makes our own marines look like the Air Force in comparison... 😎




SFSG/Paras are the most sexually ambiguous wild men on the planet. Rangers do some gay shit for laughs... those dudes make us look like Westboro Baptist.


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## Devildoc (Jul 22, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> I've worked with the Spanish Navy, Spanish Navy Marines, Royal Marines, Maldovia Army EOD, Iraqi Army, and various IDF units. Each had its positives and negatives.
> 
> Highlights: The Royal Marines had an awesome O course with livefire mixed in. Was made extra difficult on the mornings following nights of out drinking those wankers.
> 
> IDF were mostly Sayeret Egoz, and Duvdevan. They were all very professional and as a direct result of them I was promoted to squad leader. I did get my ass kicked by about 20 of them during a training event but then again, that was the point of it.



I have a friend, dual citizenship, was in Duvdevan.  One of the best pistol shooters I have ever seen/known.  Amazing unit.


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## digrar (Jul 22, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> A-stan:
> Australian LRRP: Good guys, friendly and knew their shit.



We have guys that do that job in RAR Battalions (it's what I did for most of my time in 6RAR) and it's one of the main roles of SASR, but it's not a unit designation. I'm picking it was SASR?


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## Gordus (May 9, 2020)

Kraut783 said:


> Georgian: A bunch of thugs, we had opened cases on a bunch of them (theft from civilians, rape...etc), then they left the country to address the issue with Russia.



This really hits hard, and it's not news to me. I've heard similar accusations from Italians, who claimed the only disciplined and clean professionals among the Georgians were the special forces. I really hope this isn't true, not just because of bad reputation, but the insult to those who sacrificed their lifes and health in that mission. I knew a few people who deployed to Iraq because they genuinely thought it was the right thing to do. Wheter to defend their country's interests or fight the good fight. What a shame.


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## NovemberWhiskey (May 9, 2020)

Similar experience with Georgians (non SF, cannot speak to that / wasn't on friendly terms with)... but. You have to keep in mind their own government is giving them hell and the situation with Russia, culturally for a century and in the whole region, is a pretty thin ice on the best days.

I'm not saying it's not their fault, I'm saying they are in a complicated spot themselves.

Ditto, if you know paramilitaries or home defense in the area, families with former Air Force service and the like for points of contact, try those better.

The who flew the skies in the country and their families tend to be solid. Morals and everything else wise. Silent as the grave if you need that, too.

But don't mess around with the women or flirt up. They're very traditional society in that respect, it wouldn't read as friendly, it would kill trust as not having manners.


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## Gordus (May 9, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> You have to keep in mind ...



I suppose it's hard to understand from a non-Georgian perspective, but such facts hit very deep, despite being an issue inherited from Soviet times. Many people gave all their effort, some even their lives, just so Georgia would gain more recognition and spotlight on the world stage. So it's really painful when due to oversight or base neglect, a bunch of thugs end up in the army and think they can form a crime ring in a peacekeeping mission like it was their personal thug den in Greece or the streets of Tbilisi, and ruin the whole reputation of the men and women genuinely fighting for their country and serving a cause, laying down their lives. This isn't something that can be excused by historical circumstances, or anything. Thugs are thugs and don't belong in peacekeeping operations.


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## NovemberWhiskey (May 9, 2020)

Yeah that's one thing...

But we could also have a long talk about how as long as there's any business, there's always going to be enterprising criminals using it, around or in that business. Crime is versatille like that.

Personally I'd prefer not giving them the morale victory - they can't ruin the op with their shenanigans, disrupt it perhaps but that's correct course and CM, and their thuggery sure as shit doesn't ruin efforts of good, patriotic, hard working men and women.

All they do is get bad press up, if it leaks or is a major blow, and mess around, but that's it... Just because they are visible doesn't mean they are winning on any lane.

Letting them down the morale of peacekeepers like yourself I see as way more a win to their approach to the cause. Don't lose a second of your hope for what you do for some foreign nationals losers.


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## Gordus (May 9, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> Letting them down the morale of peacekeepers like yourself



Just to clear any confusion, I'm not serving or a peacekeeper. Just a Georgian who happens to know others that served and are some of the finest people I've met. No matter how we twist it, such incidents put a bad rep on the very insitution and cause they devoted their lives to. I appreciate and respect your point of view, and you're absolutly right about not giving them any quarter, both physicaly and morally.


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## NovemberWhiskey (May 9, 2020)

Ahh, thanks for explaining and apologies for the confusion @Gordus. ;)

I hope I didn't manage to insult your country as my stay at was a few months limited and one just doesn't get the subtleties as an outsider and from so short time in a place.

Thanks for sharing and here's to hoping your day goes well. Not sure how cold your land these days, either, Georgian colds are way something else and I have a huge respect to the people regularly surviving that climate, alone.


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## AWP (May 9, 2020)

I'm strangely relieved to see the thread go in this direction instead of a big "fuck you" fest where the Stukas and banhammers start flying. Good job, guys.


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## Kraut783 (May 9, 2020)

Gordus said:


> This really hits hard, and it's not news to me. I've heard similar accusations from Italians, who claimed the only disciplined and clean professionals among the Georgians were the special forces. I really hope this isn't true, not just because of bad reputation, but the insult to those who sacrificed their lifes and health in that mission. I knew a few people who deployed to Iraq because they genuinely thought it was the right thing to do. Wheter to defend their country's interests or fight the good fight. What a shame.



Sorry @Gordus  I just saw this post. Time period was 2008, 10th Mountain had complained of some of the incidents. Unfortunately, much of the reporting was true, but cases were closed when they left in August 2018 to fly back because of Russian issues.  I will say it seemed to be confined to one company sized unit.


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## Gordus (May 9, 2020)

NovemberWhiskey said:


> I hope I didn't manage to insult your country as my stay at was a few months limited and one just doesn't get the subtleties as an outsider and from so short time in a place.



Not all all. It was a known issue that caused bad rep. Such problems should have been adressed and not swept under the rug. It's not just about reputation among Coalition forces but especialy local and civpop. Fortunatly it's not nearly as bad in Afghanistan, where petty little theft rings still occasionaly occur, but very rarely ( afaik ).



> Thanks for sharing and here's to hoping your day goes well. Not sure how cold your land these days, either, Georgian colds are way something else and I have a huge respect to the people regularly surviving that climate, alone.



Same man. Stay safe and healthy. Oh yeah, summer and winter time can be extreme over there. But at least it snows in Georgia. I haven't seen proper snow in Germany for ages.



Kraut783 said:


> Sorry @Gordus  I just saw this post. Time period was 2008, 10th Mountain had complained of some of the incidents. Unfortunately, much of the reporting was true, but cases were closed when they left in August 2018 to fly back because of Russian issues.  I will say it seemed to be confined to one company sized unit.



I don't doubt that @Kraut783. There has to be truth to it when several forces make the same or a similar complaint. I will also not delude myself into believing it was just one unit or group of soliders causing all the trouble ( even if it were ), from among thousands who deployed over several years. It's something that clearly happened and cannot be denied.


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