# Critical Military Theory



## Gunz (Jun 28, 2022)

Someone with common sense.

A retired Marine 3-star general explains 'critical military theory'


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## Marauder06 (Jun 28, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Someone with common sense.
> 
> A retired Marine 3-star general explains 'critical military theory'


Wow.  I **really** liked that article.


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## SpongeBob*24 (Jun 28, 2022)

The article was a home run!!!

I also enjoyed the popup that sent me on a Journey to find a John J Rambo First Blood starter kit...complete with M65 jacket....


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## amlove21 (Jun 28, 2022)

Gunz said:


> Someone with common sense.
> 
> A retired Marine 3-star general explains 'critical military theory'


What a fantastic post/article. Great work.


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## Gunz (Jun 29, 2022)

.


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## Topkick (Jun 29, 2022)

Gunz said:


> The sad thing is that our civilian leadership will never read—much less adopt—sound advice like this. And if they did read it, they wouldn’t get it.
> 
> They’ve already passed the point of no return in the emasculation of the US military and nobody is going to be able to turn that train around.
> 
> Anyone attempting to do so would be vilified by all the forces—the government, the media, our leftist society—that have shoved their agenda down our throats.


I dont disagree, but I am a little more optimistic. All it will take is a change in civilian officials who will then put the right military leadership in place. The problem as I see it is...who? Will the warriors leave or all be forced out before they can gain any influence?

I have met some of my son's classmates at West Point. All is not lost.

It would take some time to reorient the entire force, regardless.


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## Gunz (Jun 29, 2022)

Topkick said:


> I dont disagree, but I am a little more optimistic. All it will take is a change in civilian officials who will then put the right military leadership in place. The problem as I see it is...who? Will the warriors leave or all be forced out before they can gain any influence?
> 
> I have met some my son's classmates at West Point. All is not lost.
> 
> It would take some time to reorient the entire force, regardless.



Hope you’re right, Top.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 30, 2022)

The thing I feel is always missing from these discussions is that we have to determine what we want from the military going forward.

World police, large force presence, and lower standards.

Or 

Defensive military, reduced size, high standards and ability.

Pick one.

If we want to continue in the way we have for much of the 20th century, we have to have standards and a military culture that actually gets young blood into uniforms. Unfortunately, we're increasingly losing the ability to maintain the quality of service member we want if we are trying to have the quantity we're used to. 

Aside from the massive issues the military as a whole has in regards to suicide, sexual crimes, and shit leadership, there's the little stuff that's become common knowledge.

How many of us knew before joining that roughly 70% of the time on active duty you'd be doing worthless 24 hour duties (cq), sitting around waiting on tasks, or being called in on your day off because Joe snuffy got a dui? 

The younger generation does, and they're refusing to be part of that.

Throw in that the pay/benefits are basically dogshit if you have any sort of outside opportunity and it's even harder to get people to join. Shit, I make more (before accounting for BAH) working as a cook foreman in a prison than I would as an active duty E6. I'm also not responsible for babysitting adults on my off time. How the hell are we supposed to convince a large number of kids being an e1-e4 is a good deal when they can go work a blue collar job or flip burgers and make almost as much?

There's a reason the army is giving 35k and letting those without high school diplomas or a GED join, and it isn't because they are going after high quality recruits.


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## Locksteady (Jun 30, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The thing I feel is always missing from these discussions is that we have to determine what we want from the military going forward.
> 
> World police, large force presence, and lower standards.
> 
> ...





Cookie_ said:


> Throw in that the pay/benefits are basically dogshit if you have any sort of outside opportunity and it's even harder to get people to join. Shit, I make more (before accounting for BAH) working as a cook foreman in a prison than I would as an active duty E6. I'm also not responsible for babysitting adults on my off time. How the hell are we supposed to convince a large number of kids being an e1-e4 is a good deal when they can go work a blue collar job or flip burgers and make almost as much?



Paying for college got a lot of us (not a single student loan to this day).  I'll add that they'll have to keep increasing that if the whole 'pay for state college' mint goes platinum.



Cookie_ said:


> How many of us knew before joining that roughly 70% of the time on active duty you'd be doing worthless 24 hour duties (cq), sitting around waiting on tasks, or being called in on your day off because Joe snuffy got a dui?
> 
> The younger generation does, and they're refusing to be part of that.



Nah.

How many of us _*knew*_, or how many of us _*cared*_?  The only ones that cared were (mostly) the ones joining to be doorkickers, and we know where the majority of those applicants did *not* end up.



Cookie_ said:


> There's a reason the army is giving 35k and letting those without high school diplomas or a GED join, and it isn't because they are going after high quality recruits.


 
No, it isn't, nor has it ever been.  What, if anything, surprised you about by this play?


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## AWP (Jun 30, 2022)

“Good-Fast-Cheap. Pick two.” works for people as well.


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## Gunz (Jun 30, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> World police, large force presence, and lower standards.
> 
> Or
> 
> Defensive military, reduced size, high standards and ability.



What we should always want is the latter of these two options. An army can always be expanded at need. But the best armies expand around a nucleus of experienced and professional veteran NCOs and officers.

World police force is never a good idea. Quantity over quality is never a good idea.

The greatest recruiting tool of the 21st Century was 9/11 and the subsequent hero-worship of anybody in uniform. In times of national peril, you’ll get recruits.


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## Cookie_ (Jun 30, 2022)

Locksteady said:


> No, it isn't, nor has it ever been. What, if anything, surprised you about by this play?


Oh, I'm not surprised at all. It's more so that we know fully we'll that all these complaints about low standards and lack of discipline/ability commonly stem from us scraping the bottom of the barrel for recruits.


Gunz said:


> The greatest recruiting tool of the 21st Century was 9/11 and the subsequent hero-worship of anybody in uniform. In times of national peril, you’ll get recruits.



9/11 was a great recruiting tool from 02- probably 12.

The war in Afghanistan has ensured the opposite. I can't tell you how many of my friends in recruiting have had kids specifically mention the war and how it was operated as reasons they refuse to join.


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## Marauder06 (Jun 30, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Oh, I'm not surprised at all. It's more so that we know fully we'll that all these complaints about low standards and lack of discipline/ability commonly stem from us scraping the bottom of the barrel for recruits.
> 
> 
> 9/11 was a great recruiting tool from 02- probably 12.
> ...


I think that is one of the great unspoken issues related to recruiting.  We can say it's the rebounding economy and "better options" all we want, but I can't help but think that the political turmoil and the way Afghanistan ended are driving down recruiting.  Military service tends more and more to be a family affair, and much of the recruiting takes place in conservative states.  With the rise of "woke culture" and the debacle of the Afghanistan withdrawal, I suspect (no evidence to support) that people who would otherwise be encouraging people to join, aren't.  And people who are socially and politically aware are less interested in signing up.  Also, with the wars over (for now), people who want to join up to fight aren't going to have (they think) the opportunity.

So political wokeness, the Afghanistan withdrawal, and discouragement from others are things that are less-spoken-of issues that I think are contributing to the recruiting issues the Army is facing.


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## Gunz (Jun 30, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> The war in Afghanistan has ensured the opposite. I can't tell you how many of my friends in recruiting have had kids specifically mention the war and how it was operated as reasons they refuse to join.



Absolutely, as you say, around ‘12. By that time UBL was dead, revenge for 9/11 had largely been fulfilled.


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## Devildoc (Jun 30, 2022)

1% of the population serves, and an average of 75% who serve come from a family who had someone who served.  71% of military-aged men and women cannot qualify (weight, drugs, health, aptitude).  50% know little to nothing about military service.  These numbers come from an army source.

It paints a pretty bleak picture.  I think some peripheral out-of-the-box opportunities exist aside from 'just' bonuses (direct commission, advanced pay grade, one duty station for contract, etc.), but the military has to do a better job of reaching that 50%, and engage key stakeholders (HS and youth coaches, guidance counselors, etc) as well as simply do a better job of getting the word out.

I love that I see SOCOM and USMC recruiters at things like Spartan events, tri's, etc., but their targets are usually SOF-centric, not mil-wide.


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## Ooh-Rah (Jun 30, 2022)

Devildoc said:


> and an average of 75% who serve come from a family who had someone who served.





Devildoc said:


> but the military has to do a better job of reaching that 50%, and engage key stakeholders (HS and youth coaches, guidance counselors, etc)



They also need to do a better job of convincing parents who served, that sending their children to the Military is a good choice for their futures.  There was a time where I was guiding my son towards OCS and eventually the Marine Corps; not anymore. 

If he chooses it on his own, I’ll make sure he knows what he’s walking into and support it, but I’m no longer working to influence it.

Which by the way is too bad, because he’d be good for the Corps…sadly (and I mean that) I no longer believe that the Corps would be good for him.


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## Topkick (Jun 30, 2022)

Ooh-Rah said:


> They also need to do a better job of convincing parents who served, that sending their children to the Military is a good choice for their futures.  There was a time where I was guiding my son towards OCS and eventually the Marine Corps; not anymore.
> 
> If he chooses it on his own, I’ll make sure he knows what he’s walking into and support it, but I’m no longer working to influence it.
> 
> Which by the way is too bad, because he’d be good for the Corps…sadly (and I mean that) I no longer believe that the Corps would be good for him.


Agreed. The Army was right for me but its not easy having a kid in the military right now. It was his goal and his decision alone. My son and I had many heart to hearts about this. I made sure he knew I'd be just as proud of him if he chose another route. I will worry until the day he gets out.


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## Gunz (Jul 1, 2022)

None of my boys were balls to the wall enthusiastic about the military, maybe because they saw (and experienced) some of the struggles I had as a result of the war. I told them, I don’t care if you serve as long as you respect those who do.

Their mother encouraged the service academies. I stayed out of it. Our oldest ended up as an alternate to West Point but never went. The youngest got an appointment to the Merchant Marine Academy, but never went.


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## Devildoc (Jul 1, 2022)

None of my kids are terribly interested but one, I have one son who is very, very interested. I think he wants to have a gap year to join the North Carolina National Guard, 20th Special Forces Group, and try to go to SFAS and be a 18D, then finish his degree at UNC, eventually getting a commission.

We will see. Physically he is entirely capable, he is very athletic.  Mentally, we will see.


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## Cookie_ (Jul 3, 2022)

Here's an excellent article from task and purpose on why the Army (though it probably applies to other services as well) is failing so hard at recruiting.

Some highlights-

Unclear advertising campaign
Website lacks information (Shows pay, but no promotion timeline; why show recruits E3 pay @4 years when you pick up E4 in two?) 
Unrealistic Comparisons (E5 married with two kids compared to starting salary of Police Officer)
Offical Communication lacking (Took a week for recruiter to respond; instant chat feature rarely works; who still calls 1-800 #s?)
Still making recruiters cold call/focus on high schools

Opinion | Why nobody wants to join the Army this year


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## Devildoc (Jul 6, 2022)

Cookie_ said:


> Here's an excellent article from task and purpose on why the Army (though it probably applies to other services as well) is failing so hard at recruiting.
> 
> Some highlights-
> 
> ...



I read a similar article recently, suggesting much the same, and and an issue with all the branches.

Also quality applicant pool is smaller than it has been given physical standards including weight, fitness standards, and drug issues that may not be waiverable.


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## Marauder06 (Jul 6, 2022)

So I guess the Army walked back the "we'll take you without a GED" program they just announced?


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## Devildoc (Jul 6, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So I guess the Army walked back the "we'll take you without a GED" program they just announced?



Yes they did.  The ink was still wet.


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## Totentanz (Jul 6, 2022)

Marauder06 said:


> So I guess the Army walked back the "we'll take you without a GED" program they just announced?



There aren't many programs with a lifespan shorter than CNN+...


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## AWP (Jul 6, 2022)

Be all that you can...eh, anyway...do you wanna' shoot guns?


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