# John McCain 1936 - 2018



## Devildoc (Aug 25, 2018)

Horrible Naval officer, worse politician, but he was convicted and we'll respected.  Prayers for his family.  That tumor is a tough way to go.


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## BloodStripe (Aug 25, 2018)

Senator John McCain has passed away at age 81. Regardless of how you feel politically about him, he served a lifetime of service to this country.


RIP


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## Kraut783 (Aug 25, 2018)

Rest in Peace Captain McCain...I hope you have found your peace.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 25, 2018)

@NavyBuyer and @Devildoc

Simultaneous start of the thread; so I merged them.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 25, 2018)

Wow.

Some of the comments I've read today about him, from folks whom I generally enjoy reading, are well past disrespectful.  I get that he probably should have switched to a Dem some years ago, and that many of my brethren consider him a traitor to the Republican Party, but is there anyone here who believes that he conspired with the enemy as a POW?  

God knows I'm in no position to judge the man for what he may or may not have done as a POW, but I've never heard any of these "songbird" stories until it was announced that he was likely terminal.


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## Devildoc (Aug 25, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wow.
> 
> Some of the comments I've read today about him, from folks whom I generally enjoy reading, are well past disrespectful.  I get that he probably should have switched to a Dem some years ago, and that many of my brethren consider him a traitor to the Republican Party, but is there anyone here who believes that he conspired with the enemy as a POW?
> 
> God knows I'm in no position to judge the man for what he may or may not have done as a POW, but I've never heard any of these "songbird" stories until it was announced that he was likely terminal.



I didn't like the man, don't like his politics, don't like that his dad was the only reason he was an aviator.  That said...he was convicted, and he served his country.  He served by his convictions.


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## Cookie_ (Aug 25, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wow.
> God knows I'm in no position to judge the man for what he may or may not have done as a POW, but I've never heard any of these "songbird" stories until it was announced that he was likely terminal.



As best I can find, the songbird stories started in 2008. It was started by a longtime political opponent of McCain's, who called him a "Manchurian candidate" and even was charged with assaulting one of McCain's aides back in '93.


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## Dame (Aug 25, 2018)

Hillary was the Manchurian candidate. Period. That said, McCain had his faults, one of which was his treatment of his first wife.
I met him at the Phoenix airport once. I thanked him for his service, not his politics.
Rest in peace, Senator.


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## Cookie_ (Aug 25, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> .he was convicted, and he served his country.  He served by his convictions.



This, 100%.  Regardless of how people personally felt about his politics, he never seemed slimy to me like some of the others. I still remember the crap he got for refusing to let a woman at a town hall meeting call Obama an Arab back when they both were running in '08.


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## SaintKP (Aug 25, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wow.
> 
> Some of the comments I've read today about him, from folks whom I generally enjoy reading, are well past disrespectful.  I get that he probably should have switched to a Dem some years ago, and that many of my brethren consider him a traitor to the Republican Party, but is there anyone here who believes that he conspired with the enemy as a POW?
> 
> God knows I'm in no position to judge the man for what he may or may not have done as a POW, but I've never heard any of these "songbird" stories until it was announced that he was likely terminal.



Easier to talk about someone when they're dead and gone, same thing happened with Margaret Thatcher. Most people don't possess the gumption to say what they truly feel about another person anymore.


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## amlove21 (Aug 25, 2018)

Thanks for your service to this nation, Senator. Fair winds.


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## SpitfireV (Aug 25, 2018)

SaintKP said:


> Easier to talk about someone when they're dead and gone, same thing happened with Margaret Thatcher. Most people don't possess the gumption to say what they truly feel about another person anymore.



Sorry mate but they said all those things when Thatcher was still alive.


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## GOTWA (Aug 25, 2018)

I'm not sure if I have ever voted for him, but I still respect his service.  It was still an honor to have shook his hand during the memorial service at Fort Hood following the 2009 shooting.  That memory I will hold for the rest of my life.


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## DA SWO (Aug 25, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Wow.
> 
> Some of the comments I've read today about him, from folks whom I generally enjoy reading, are well past disrespectful.  I get that he probably should have switched to a Dem some years ago, and that many of my brethren consider him a traitor to the Republican Party, but is there anyone here who believes that he conspired with the enemy as a POW?
> 
> God knows I'm in no position to judge the man for what he may or may not have done as a POW, but I've never heard any of these "songbird" stories until it was announced that he was likely terminal.



Some of his fellow POW's started an anti-McCain page when he ran for President, and referred to him as songbird.



Devildoc said:


> I didn't like the man, don't like his politics, don't like that his dad was the only reason he was an aviator.  That said...he was convicted, and he served his country.  He served by his convictions.


He was one of the few that wasn't convicted (still a crook in my book).



Cookie_101st said:


> This, 100%.  Regardless of how people personally felt about his politics, he never seemed slimy to me like some of the others. I still remember the crap he got for refusing to let a woman at a town hall meeting call Obama an Arab back when they both were running in '08.



Keating 5.

Codolences to his family as I know what losing parents is like.  Good riddance to him.


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## SaintKP (Aug 25, 2018)

SpitfireV said:


> Sorry mate but they said all those things when Thatcher was still alive.




Even then, few people outside of Dictators and the Despots have inspired such a resounding celebration of her death. Point still stands, people wait till the person in question is dead to unload all of their petty bullshit and hurt feelings.


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## Topkick (Aug 25, 2018)

I thought he was bad for this country. He was the epitome of the establishment. Glad that we can now move on without him. But, he was a son, a father, a husband, and a veteran. Respect to those who loved him.


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## Grunt (Aug 25, 2018)

Rest In Peace, Sir....


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## DasBoot (Aug 25, 2018)

I could care less about the naysayers or, to use the parlance of our times, “the haters.” The man was a rock. Anyone of note and any man of integrity spoke about his resilience in captivity. He is not my favorite American, or top 5, but he is an honorable mention. Behind Mattis and Powell I’ll always consider him the best POTUS who never was. I read his book in HS, and his story was part of the reason (along with Admiral Stockdale and Major Winters) that I am where I am today. You hate his politics- fine, just know you hate compromise and real progress. RIP Senator, Captain, and overall great American John McCain. You fought the good fight.


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## Gunpowder (Aug 25, 2018)

R.I.P Senator, Captain...prayers for his family...Blue Skies


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## Blizzard (Aug 25, 2018)

Godspeed, Senator.


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## EqualReaction (Aug 25, 2018)

Cancer sucks. My mother has stage 4 breast cancer, and it’s devastating. You know the end result but you don’t know when, and you don’t know how to grieve. It’s more than just knowing you will miss the person, you realize that it sucks for the person because they don’t want to die either. I feel for his family. He may be a politician to us, but he was family to someone else.


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## Muppet (Aug 26, 2018)

Fuck cancer. I never much liked the politician side of Sen. McCain but, he was a human being, I don't wish his medical issues on my worst enemy. I offer my condolences to his family and friends.


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## x SF med (Aug 26, 2018)

Rest in peace, Senator.  I never voted for you, but I respect your service and your time as a POW.


To the others, SGM Caviainni was also accused of being a 'songbird' by those who were not chosen for exchange at the same time.


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## Ex3 (Aug 26, 2018)

I wrote this on my FB wall:

My 12-year-old daughter and I met John McCain on August 30, 2004, at a fundraiser for Special Operations Warrior Foundation. I remember the date clearly because her father died in a military training accident on that day in 2001. Mr. McCain took her hand and with such kindness said, “I know what today is. I want to tell you how sorry I am and to thank you very much for the sacrifices you’ve made for your country.” She was crying a bit, he put his arm around her and said, "it gets better." 

I told him how much respect I had for him and that if he ran for president, he had my vote. Even though he picked that idiot Palin in 2008, I kept my promise. 

Whether or not you liked his politics, there’s no doubt that he was a fine human being. Rest In Peace, sir.


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## Devildoc (Aug 26, 2018)

Re: his cancer, he had a glioblastoma. The world's expert on those is where I work, and I have seen several people die as a result of that tumor. It is ugly. I don't care if you have radiation and chemotherapy, it is an ugly way to die and would wish it on no one.  and as hard as it is on the patient, it is equally if not harder on the family who have to watch it. I am very glad for their sake that he is at rest and at peace.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 26, 2018)

Devildoc said:


> Re: his cancer, he had a glioblastoma. The world's expert on those is where I work, and I have seen several people die as a result of that tumor. It is ugly. I don't care if you have radiation and chemotherapy, it is an ugly way to die and would wish it on no one.  and as hard as it is on the patient, it is equally if not harder on the family who have to watch it. I am very glad for their sake that he is at rest and at peace.



Just last week a local radio/TV 'celebrity' announced his wife has the very same cancer.   Has to be a sobering reality check for them.


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## Gunz (Aug 27, 2018)

He was one hell of a man when it counted. And in the end that's all that matters.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 27, 2018)

I was a McCain supporter until I opened my eyes to his politics. I'm not going to get into his service or time as a POW, By all accounts he went through hell before he broke. There is enough out there about it that anyone who wants to know can find out.






I think McCain enriched himself through political means. I think he stayed in office far too long and was disruptive to both the Military, the country and political discourse. 

McCain's Non-Support for Troops and Veterans: The Master List | HuffPost

A look at the life and fortune of John McCain, who has a sprawling real estate portfolio and donated $1.7 million in book sales to charity

Try as He May, John McCain Can’t Shake Falsehoods About Ties to ISIS

Keating Five - Wikipedia

Just a few fun facts...

I won't call the man as traitor, but he damn sure is no hero of mine. 

Goodbye John McCain.


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## Gunz (Aug 27, 2018)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> McCain's Non-Support for Troops and Veterans: The Master List | HuffPost
> 
> A look at the life and fortune of John McCain, who has a sprawling real estate portfolio and donated $1.7 million in book sales to charity
> 
> ...




Why the link to the false ISIS story? McCain never had any connection with ISIS..._ever. _

So he had money and real estate. So do a lot of people. So does Trump. He came from a wealthy and influential family, his father and grandfather were admirals.

John Glenn was also implicated in the Keating Five scandal and he's one of my childhood heroes...and both McCain and Glenn were cleared of any wrongdoing. Bad judgement? Probably. Who's never made a bad decision? I can't argue with his non-support of veterans if what you posted is true, and I didn't always agree with his politics, but it's easy to kick a man when he's down.

I'd say of all the slimy and stupid pieces of shit cunts involved in politics in this country, McCain was one of the exceptions.

Silver Star, Bronze Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, Purple Heart...countless civilian awards...and everybody, every fucking swinging dick who gets tortured will break. Everybody breaks eventually.

I may be a fool, but he's a fellow Vietnam vet, he bombed my enemy, he fought the guys who killed and maimed my brothers, who caused me a lifetime of pain, and as distant as he was from me and my life, he will always be a brother warrior.


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## J. (Aug 27, 2018)

Is this thread supposed to be a debate or just a respectful venue for the forum to wish fair winds to a dead man who served his country? 

Because it shouldn’t be both.


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## Ooh-Rah (Aug 27, 2018)

J. said:


> Is this thread supposed to be a debate or just a respectful venue for the forum to wish fair winds to a dead man who served his country?
> 
> Because it shouldn’t be both.



Slight disagree.  McCain was if nothing else a controversial figure for the Republican Party.  If you look at the OP’s opening statement, he set the thread up to turn into a discussion and as long as everyone remains respectful, I think that’s okay.

Anyone on the staff want to overrule that, good by me.  I just happen to be the first one to respond to your post.


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## Dame (Aug 27, 2018)

Received this from his family today:





One of John's true honors in life was working to make our nation a safer and stronger place, and in doing so, being able to interact with people all over the country and the world.

Although our hearts are incredibly heavy, they are also filled with love and warmth. Please know we will forever be grateful for your friendship and support.

John would not want us to be sad. He would want us to continue his work of serving causes greater than our own self-interest. We hope you will go forward and do just that.

*Over the next few days, we will hold memorial services and remembrances for John. You can learn more by clicking here. You can also share your remembrances of John on this website as well. *

Thank you for being there for John, and for our entire family. We are truly appreciative.

Sincerely,

The McCain Family


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Aug 27, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Why the link to the false ISIS story? McCain never had any connection with ISIS..._ever. _
> 
> So he had money and real estate. So do a lot of people. So does Trump. He came from a wealthy and influential family, his father and grandfather were admirals.
> 
> ...



I get where you are coming from and respect your POV, I don't share it, but nonetheless respect it.

I didn't write those articles, I just linked them. It's been well proven that McCain had several meetings, even posing for pictures with ISIS commanders. If i remember correctly, he was involved in trying to arm the syrian rebels, who happened to be alined with ISIS, before it became ISIS. There are numerous things I could point out, regarding McCain's politics and voting that makes my skin crawl. When he ran for POTUS, there was a large amount of Vietnam veterans who came out against him. That was eye opening for me to say the least, at a time when I did support him. 

I agree anyone will break, under extreme situations of torture, etc. There were also many who didn't, that's a bit of a moot point. I've watched countless videos of him chastising and cussing people in the Senate,  in town halls, in off the cuff situations. His Character, specifically his record on veteran issues and his womanizing, and his quickness to push for war is mainly what I take issue with. However, as I said, i think he simply stayed too long and should have retired. But I will agree, there are far worse people in the halls of Congress and the Senate. And again I'm not saying he was a total piece of shit, just that I do not consider him a hero. Yet again, there are a few people I know with heroic awards, who are veterans, that I do not consider to be hero's either. But as they say, everyone has an opinion, and all that jazz.


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## Cookie_ (Aug 28, 2018)

He wrote a goodbye letter to the public, for anyone interested in reading it 

https://www.azcentral.com/amp/1112268002


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## GOTWA (Aug 28, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Your post.


Humility aside, don't discredit yourself by saying you're bias because of being BOG and experiencing what you did.  If anything, it adds credence to the conditions and ultimate sacrifice those made during the war, both on the ground, or from the air.  My generation can't speak to life in Vietnam, so we look to those who can to share their experience, not to tell us what to think, but to educate us so we can develop our own opinion.


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## Centermass (Aug 28, 2018)

Since it's been a few days from his passing, I will say that I find it laughable and sad, the number of politicians out there, along with a majority of the  major news media, who demonized this man 10 years ago when he was a candidate, now worship him.


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## Gunz (Aug 28, 2018)

Centermass said:


> Since it's been a few days from his passing, I will say that I find it laughable and sad, the number of politicians out there, along with a majority of the  major news media, who demonized this man 10 years ago when he was a candidate, now worship him.




This I completely agree with. It's been an astonishing liberal media love-fest. I think it's mainly due to the MSM's hatred of Trump and the knowledge that McCain and Trump were enemies.

And for the record, I think it was despicable for the POTUS to plan on keeping the White House flag at full mast. I mean, WTF? His hatred of McCain has been well known ever since his famous remark that he preferred pilots who _don't_ get shot down...but jesus, have a fucking shred of class. Put the hate behind you at least until the dude is buried.

Isn't it enough the guy died a slow and painful death from fucking brain cancer??


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## DasBoot (Aug 28, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> This I completely agree with. It's been an astonishing liberal media love-fest. I think it's mainly due to the MSM's hatred of Trump and the knowledge that McCain and Trump were enemies.
> 
> And for the record, I think it was despicable for the POTUS to plan on keeping the White House flag at full mast. I mean, WTF? His hatred of McCain has been well known ever since his famous remark that he preferred pilots who _don't_ get shot down...but jesus, have a fucking shred of class. Put the hate behind you at least until the dude is buried.
> 
> Isn't it enough the guy died a slow and painful death from fucking brain cancer??


Pretty typical behavior from someone who prides themself on being a “mans man” but has never done anything to back it up, and then comes up against a real man who has earned his place at the table... I see it often with non-mil guys vs military guys in my generation.


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## Topkick (Aug 28, 2018)

DasBoot said:


> then comes up against a real man who has earned his place at the table... I see it often with non-mil guys vs military guys in my generation.



I'm a supporter of Trumps policies, but I can get behind you on this. I've seen it a lot. In this case  I think Trump wants ALL of the attention and harbors some jealousy towards McCain. Trump is the President ( obviously also a successful man )...McCain never was, so Trump should just let McCain have his day. However, I do not believe McCain was an innocent bystander in their ongoing feud.


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## DA SWO (Aug 28, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> This I completely agree with. It's been an astonishing liberal media love-fest. I think it's mainly due to the MSM's hatred of Trump and the knowledge that McCain and Trump were enemies.
> 
> And for the record, I think it was despicable for the POTUS to plan on keeping the White House flag at full mast. I mean, WTF? His hatred of McCain has been well known ever since his famous remark that he preferred pilots who _don't_ get shot down...but jesus, have a fucking shred of class. Put the hate behind you at least until the dude is buried.
> 
> Isn't it enough the guy died a slow and painful death from fucking brain cancer??


US Code says half mast for two days, the Congress and DoD can extend hat if they want.
Did McCain put his hate for Trump on the back burner?


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## amlove21 (Aug 28, 2018)

Centermass said:


> Since it's been a few days from his passing, I will say that I find it laughable and sad, the number of politicians out there, along with a majority of the  major news media, who demonized this man 10 years ago when he was a candidate, now worship him.


Ben Shapiro talked about this on his podcast and had an interesting take. Check it out, if you’d like.


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## amlove21 (Aug 28, 2018)

DA SWO said:


> US Code says half mast for two days, the Congress and DoD can extend hat if they want.
> Did McCain put his hate for Trump on the back burner?


It’s just bad politics, that all. Which shouldn’t be a surprise- the president is a bad politician. 

He should have been able to release a bland statement, follow protocol and just let it be. But he can’t- cause he’s a terrible politician. People are making more of it than what needs to be made, on both sides.


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## Topkick (Aug 28, 2018)

amlove21 said:


> He should have been able to release a bland statement, follow protocol and just let it be. But he can’t- cause he’s a terrible politician. People are making more of it than what needs to be made, on both sides.



Agree with your opinion of what Trump should've done. But, I don't think Trump is bad at politics. Many of his constituents feel the same way about McCain as he does, therefor he's playing politics by snubbing McCain.


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## amlove21 (Aug 28, 2018)

@Topkick isn’t that the whole schtick? He’s an outsider, not a politician, etc? Do you really think he is a good politician?

If he’s a good politician, and he flubbed this one badly, what are we left with? Unless you think the McCain kerfluffle was a good political move.

ETA- this is a thread derail- anyone that wants to talk about the president being a good/bad politician, head over to the appropriate thread, the Trump Administration thread. My B!


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## Topkick (Aug 28, 2018)

amlove21 said:


> If he’s a good politician, and he flubbed this one badly, what are we left with? Unless you think the McCain kerfluffle was a good political move.


Depends on the definition of good politics. Are we pleasing our base, or are we pleasing our colleagues? I doubt his base feels he flubbed the McCain ordeal. Personally, I don't like McCain so this doesn't affect my opinion of Trump. We know Trump plays only to his base. I will say, though, I would of had no problem with Trump handling the situation just as you mentioned earlier.


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## ThunderHorse (Aug 28, 2018)

I have a lot of emotions about this whole ordeal.  He was a human being that did a lot to earn and also to lose my respect.  Many actions before I was born.  His politics I have major issues with.  Which is a bit uncouth in this state, but whatever.

McCain is receiving a State Funeral, did he earn that?  Think non presidents to have received State Funerals.

Thaddeus Stevens, Unknown Soldier from WWI, Gen of the Armies Pershing, Two Unknown Soldiers from WWII, Unknown Soldier from Korea, General of the Army MacArthur.


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## Topkick (Aug 28, 2018)

ThunderHorse said:


> McCain is receiving a State Funeral, did he earn that?



Yes. And I am no fan. He devoted his life to the state, he at least deserves this.


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## amlove21 (Aug 28, 2018)

Topkick said:


> Yes. And I am no fan. He devoted his life to the state, he at least deserves this.


Wish I could like it twice. 

Well said.


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## Gunz (Aug 29, 2018)

DA SWO said:


> US Code says half mast for two days, the Congress and DoD can extend hat if they want.
> _*Did McCain put his hate for Trump on the back burner?*_




No...but Trump wasn't suffering from brain cancer or dead.

Look, bro, I'm not defending McCain's politics. If anything, I'm defending his service to his country, his sacrifice, which, IMHO, deserves some respect at the time of his death from the Commander-in-Chief, regardless of their past enmity.


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## digrar (Aug 30, 2018)

Diamondback 2/2 said:


> I think he stayed in office far too long



He's not on his own there. You guys got it right with the President, just needed to bring in a similar (maybe 4 term or mandatory 65yo retirement) term limit to senators, congress and other assorted elected officials.


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## Centermass (Sep 1, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Look, bro, I'm not defending McCain's politics. If anything, I'm defending his service to his country, his sacrifice, which, IMHO, deserves some respect at the time of his death from the Commander-in-Chief, regardless of their past enmity.



Agree. 

It's also a shame that there were those who took to the podium and it seemed they forgot it was a funeral and not a political rally.


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## Topkick (Sep 1, 2018)

Centermass said:


> It's also a shame that there were those who took to the podium and it seemed they forgot it was a funeral and not a political rally



 A gathering of the "establishment"


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## Kraut783 (Sep 1, 2018)

Nice to see Gen Kelly and SECDEF Mattis with Mrs. McCain at the wall laying a wreath.


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## Marauder06 (Sep 1, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> Nice to see Gen Kelly and SECDEF Mattis with Mrs. McCain at the wall laying a wreath.


That was classy.


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## Topkick (Sep 1, 2018)

Centermass said:


> Agree.
> 
> It's also a shame that there were those who took to the podium and it seemed they forgot it was a funeral and not a political rally.


An interesting article about the swampfest that was supposed to be Senator McCain's memorial.
I personally thought many of the comments were better left unsaid during a time of mourning, reflection, and respect. To Trump supporters, actions like these just backfire and serve as a rallying cry for team Trump. The swamp dwellers just don't seem to get it.
John McCain’s Funeral Was the Biggest Resistance Meeting Yet


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## amlove21 (Sep 2, 2018)

FYSA- Moved some of the posts to the appropriate thread to continue the conversation over there. 

Onward!


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## Gunpowder (Sep 2, 2018)

If only Rear Admiral Denton had been able to remain in congress...true to the end.

Jeremiah A. Denton Jr., 89, Dies; With Blinks, Vietnam P.O.W. Told of Torture


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