# College before the military?



## asewland (Oct 8, 2012)

Hello everyone. I've decided that I'm definitely joining the military with the goal of becoming a Special Forces soldier. I'm unsure whether I should join after obtaining a degree or join straight out of HS. Many of my family memebers keep pushing me to join after college (and as an officer) but part of me feels that it would better to join right out of High School. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.


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## fox1371 (Oct 8, 2012)

It's your choice.  There isn't anyone here who can assist you with that choice.  What works for some people won't necessarily work for you.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 8, 2012)

I concur.

But there is nothing stopping you from enlisting after you have earned your degree, if that's still something you want to do 4+ years from now.  Generally speaking, with a degree, more options are available to you, both in the military and outside of it.


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## goon175 (Oct 8, 2012)

There are pro's and con's to each side. I would research the pro's and con's to each COA thoroughly before you make a decision.

If you want, post what you come up for pro's/con's and we can give you some feedback and help you fine tune it.


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## Grey (Oct 9, 2012)

I decided to enlist out of high school. Now as I wait to leave for basic I go and visit my friends at college so I get to see what it would have been like if I chosen the other road. As much of a big experience it is for people my age to go to college, it's one I know was not meant for me, not now at least. It's really about which one you want more, I felt I couldn't wait any longer but I'm still young and immature so who knows, maybe I'll show up to basic and regret it all. But it's what I decided I needed to do. I suggest going on college visits, as many as possible. Then I suggest going to the recruiters, even though you say SF maybe look into the other branches as well. Look at all options, and then maybe one you hadn't thought of before will stick out and kind of call out to you. This is the process I went through when I was deciding what to do and it really helped me focus.


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## dknob (Oct 9, 2012)

Generally sometimes a person's mentality changes in the four years they are in college. Unless you are balls deep in a ROTC /Military Science program then the chances of you still having the drive to serve after four years (unless you get on the five year plan) are decreased tremendously. You will be in a different place in your life, you may or may not have found the "love of your life" (trust me, you didn't), or maybe some future well paying career opportunities, etc.


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## DasBoot (Oct 9, 2012)

I think Tropicana98 would be well suited to respond to this post.


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## asewland (Oct 10, 2012)

I've decided to take goon's advice and come up with a quick pros and cons list for both options.

College Pros
-better job opportunities
-more time to mature
-better options if I join afterwards

College Cons
-may lose interest in the military while I'm there
-harder to get in shape for infantry and SOF
-student debt
-job market is reducing the value of a degree
-not sure if I really want to go ATM

Military Pros
-doing what I want to do right out of High School
-better shape (or more likely to be able to meet physical conditions)
-more chances to purse an SOF career

Military Cons
-if I'm injured, less opportunities when I get out (due to not having a college degree)
-may not get the MOS I want
-may find that I actually hate military life

This is a rough list. Feel free to critique.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 10, 2012)

Trust me, you can "lose interest in the military" by being in the military just as fast as you could if you went to college first ;)

If you want to do both, which makes more sense to you personally--> do you think it would be easier for you to do college first and then enlist if you want to do that, or to enlist and then try to go to college later?


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## asewland (Oct 10, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Trust me, you can "lose interest in the military" by being in the military just as fast as you could if you went to college first ;)
> 
> If you want to do both, which makes more sense to you personally--> do you think it would be easier for you to do college first and then enlist if you want to do that, or to enlist and then try to go to college later?


I believe that joining up first would be the best option for me. My parents refuse to see it, but I believe that the value of the degree is going down. Coupled with student loan debt, I don't feel that going to college right out of High School would be the best plan.


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## Servimus (Oct 10, 2012)

asewland said:


> I've decided to take goon's advice and come up with a quick pros and cons list for both options.
> 
> College Pros
> -better job opportunities
> ...


 
It's good to put pen to paper and get your pro's and con's out in front of you. Unfortunately I don't think anyone here is going to be able to answer your problem for you. This is one of many problems you're going to have to figure out and pick a course of action. 

I did college and just got out and now I'm enlisting. I think it was good for me. You learn a lot, get exposed to a whole lot more. Also it's not harder to get into shape. College is like anything else in life- you make decisions. My first couple years of college I got with a group of guys who's priorities were partying and drinking. All the physical fitness I had from HS sports going in to college was gone in a year. All about choices. Junior year I reassessed my priorities and got back into shape. Most colleges have some type of gym facility, or get a job and join a gym. Eat healthy. There's nothing about taking four classes a semester that mandates that you become unfit. Being able to make the right choices with nobody around to tell you what to do or how to do it is a part of growing up, and something, so I'm told, that is highly sought after by various SOF.

Certain degrees are worth less than others. I'd agree with you somewhat on that. That being said, a college degree is still incredibly valuable in today's world. 

Ultimately, like I said before, the choice is yours. You have to do what you feel right about. Don't cheat yourself though. It's only going to hurt you in the long run. College was good for me, but just like the military- it isn't for everyone and that's fine. Good luck man.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 10, 2012)

What do you want to do in the military, be enlisted or be an officer?  If it's the latter, you're going to need a degree.  You can enlist and work your way up into the Officers' Corps, but you still have to have a 4-year degree before you can pin on O3.  Moreover, with the way the cutbacks are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the OCS numbers drop dramatically.  Precipitously, even.  So if you want to be an officer, ever, the course of action with the highest probability of success is to do it through the ROTC program.  Which means you'd have to go to college.

You could also enlist for a short stint with the intent of going to college immediately after.  You can even commission this way; I know of several officers who were enlisted, got out entirely, then went to school and were commissioned either through ROTC or West Point.  If school funding is a concern, the post-9/11 GI Bill is extremely generous (although I wouldn't be surprised if that got the axe soon, too) and the only way to get that is to enlist first.

You can also join the Guard while you're in college; back when I was in school they called it SMP- Simultaneous Membership Program.  So you're a fulltime college student and part-time enlisted member of the Guard.  I thought of it as a great way to get some practical enlisted experience before joining the ranks of the Officers' Corps after completing ROTC.  I couldn't do the program because of a specific constraint of my scholarship, but I though it was a good idea and would have done it if I could have.

There are also military junior colleges like Georgia Military College (not to be confused with North Georgia College, which is also a military school but is 4-year) where you can get commissioned in two years.  You can also do SMP while at these schools (or at least you could back when I was in ROTC).

Finally, whatever you decide to do you should keep your options open.  You're a junior, right?  What kind of scholarships are you applying for?  What schools are you considering?  What are you doing to keep your physical fitness level up?  Even if you're dead-set on enlisting after graduation, it's not going to cost you much to apply for a bunch of scholarships/programs/schools, IMO you'd make a better decision once all of the viable options are truly on the table.


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## reed11b (Oct 10, 2012)

A couple of additional points. I, and a lot of my peers that enlisted straight out of HS had the disadvantage of not having any real world comparisons for the differance between the military and civilian life when we got out. Many of us thought that we would be much happier in the civilian world (nobody telling you what to do, making more money, less bueracracy (sp)), and then discovered that people do tell you what to do, you don't really make more money and there is just as much, if not more red tape! Unforunetly the military is not kind prior service who realize how much they miss it and want to get back in. Going to college first MAY give you a tatse of the real world. Just my $.02
Reed


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## DAVE101 (Oct 10, 2012)

Disclosure: I'm an army reservist currently seeking a bachelors.

First off, I think the obvious answer is both. One can make you a much better candidate for the other. Some of the brightest soldiers I have worked with are enrolled in classes or have a degree. Similarly, some of my best performing peers at the university are prior service.

Attending college is about much more than a degree. The amount of learning and self development is astronomical, and I'm not necessarily referring in the classroom. The things you learn and the connections you make will be well worth the tuition. Also, going out to party once in a while doesn't mean you have to give up your fitness, nutrition, or training. I've personally never been compelled to drink in my 4 years (at a huge party school mind you), and I'm in the best shape of my life. ROTC is an option you can look into commitment free for two years, which will give you a much better (although not complete) understanding of how the military functions. 

"Vlog Brothers" gives some objective measures as well as compelling subjective ones. It also explains why you shouldn't worry about the cost: 



 
I'd definitely take a look into the Guard/Reserve SMP program mentioned previously.


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## AWP (Oct 10, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> What do you want to do in the military, be enlisted or be an officer? If it's the latter, you're going to need a degree. You can enlist and work your way up into the Officers' Corps, but you still have to have a 4-year degree before you can pin on O3. Moreover, with the way the cutbacks are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the OCS numbers drop dramatically. Precipitously, even. So if you want to be an officer, ever, the course of action with the highest probability of success is to do it through the ROTC program. Which means you'd have to go to college.
> 
> You could also enlist for a short stint with the intent of going to college immediately after. You can even commission this way; I know of several officers who were enlisted, got out entirely, then went to school and were commissioned either through ROTC or West Point. If school funding is a concern, the post-9/11 GI Bill is extremely generous (although I wouldn't be surprised if that got the axe soon, too) and the only way to get that is to enlist first.
> 
> ...


 
To augment this post:

1) Look into Green to Gold if you decide to enlist first and want to become an officer.
2) Having a 4-year degree is very beneficial even as an enlisted soldier. You'll have promotion points from it and at least know how to write a report. Sounds silly? Depending on what you do, SF or not, that's a valuable skill.
3) Having seen the SMP program in action I think it should be abolished. In a nutshell: you hold down a slot in a Guard unit but can't be deployed. You wear your cadet rank to drill. Everyone keeps you at arm's length (no trust and why should they invest time in someone who isn't staying in the unit?). I've seen rare circumstances where a cadet actually ran a platoon...it was quite the Falcon Punch.
4) Enlisting with a degree means you come in as an E-4 and you're a few years older and in theory more mature than the average 18/ 19 YO in Basic. That will pay dividends.
5) I would strongly argue against enlisting in the Guard while going to college with the intent of "trying before you buy." The Guard frowns upon those that do (they are paying for your training but then you leave to go Active? Not cool) and your professors may not care for you doing Guard stuff instead of school work. I know about that first hand and have the transcript to prove it. OR you can sham out of Guard obligations to focus on school...but then do you expect the unit to let you go Active once your degree is complete? Good luck if that's your COA.
6) Both will always be there.


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## Hillclimb (Oct 10, 2012)

DAVE101 said:


> First off, I think the obvious answer is both. *One can make you a much better candidate for the other*. Some of the brightest soldiers I have worked with are enrolled in classes or have a degree. Similarly, some of my best performing peers at the university are prior service.
> 
> Attending college is about much more than a degree. *The amount of learning and self development is astronomical*, and I'm not necessarily referring in the classroom. The things you learn and the connections you make will be well worth the tuition. Also, going out to party once in a while doesn't mean you have to give up your fitness, nutrition, or training. I've personally never been compelled to drink in my 4 years (at a huge party school mind you), and I'm in the best shape of my life. ROTC is an option you can look into commitment free for two years, which will give you a much better (although not complete) understanding of how the military functions.
> 
> I'd definitely take a look into the Guard/Reserve SMP program mentioned previously.


 

This. Great points DAVE101

I'm a reservist as well and was fortunate to get a deployment shortly after checking into my reserve unit, even a 60% Post 9-11 GI bill is pretty generous. I think developing that discipline and small unit leadership helped facilitate a better mindset going into the classroom. However, I can see it working vice versa, attaining a 4 year degree first and then enlisting.

At the very least get an associates first, no one should go in debt getting an associates IMHO, and that will give you 2 years to weigh out the pro's/con's.

I don't know how it is in the Guard/Reserve SMP programs you mentioned above, but its damn near possible to go active duty from the USMC reserves enlisted. I can't really say much for the Officer route side of things from reserve to active.


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## Tropicana98 (Oct 10, 2012)

Dude there is really no more I could add to this thread as some of the more senior members have already put out much more info than I could. My personal experience as I graduated college this year and am currently going through all my initial entry training is that I'm glad I went to college before I enlisted(you don't have to commission just because you have a degree). College for me helped reinforce my decision to serve after realizing the civilian job market didn't interest me no matter the monetary gain. You also don't need to worry about getting in worse shape because as stated its all on you, if you want it you'll do it. I played college football and I'm not as skilled pure strength as I was but I'm not a whole lot weaker, I can run farther faster, and I weigh a lot less doing it. As far as a degree's worth, it's ALWAYS good to have that diploma in your back pocket. However, that works in your favor because you don't have to rush to get it. But increasing your formal education is never a negative I don't care whether you want to shoot terrorists in the face or wear a suit. You SF right? Well they are revamping the Q course so graduates get an associates and I'm willing to bet a bachelor when they can find an institution to get on board. I'm assuming you want to serve in the conventional army as you have to be 20 or 19 turning 20 to sign an 18x contract. If you want to go directly SF then you have to wait anyway so why not go to school. There really is no wrong answer do what's best for you. College before enlisting was best for me but there are plenty of phenomenal soldiers who didn't do that they are on this website and I'm around plenty of them everyday.


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## 0699 (Oct 11, 2012)

Tropicana98 said:


> Dude there is really no more I could add to this thread as some of the more senior members have already put out much more info than I could. My personal experience as I graduated college this year and am currently going through all my initial entry training is that I'm glad I went to college before I enlisted(you don't have to commission just because you have a degree). College for me helped reinforce my decision to serve after realizing the civilian job market didn't interest me no matter the monetary gain. You also don't need to worry about getting in worse shape because as stated its all on you, if you want it you'll do it. I played college football and I'm not as skilled pure strength as I was but I'm not a whole lot weaker, I can run farther faster, and I weigh a lot less doing it. As far as a degree's worth, *it's ALWAYS good to have that diploma in your back pocket*. However, that works in your favor because you don't have to rush to get it. But increasing your formal education is never a negative I don't care whether you want to shoot terrorists in the face or wear a suit. You SF right? Well they are revamping the Q course so graduates get an associates and I'm willing to bet a bachelor when they can find an institution to get on board. I'm assuming you want to serve in the conventional army as you have to be 20 or 19 turning 20 to sign an 18x contract. If you want to go directly SF then you have to wait anyway so why not go to school. There really is no wrong answer do what's best for you. College before enlisting was best for me but there are plenty of phenomenal soldiers who didn't do that they are on this website and I'm around plenty of them everyday.


 
True words there.


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## Teufel (Oct 11, 2012)

Not much to add to the really good posts already made but here is something to think about.  Right now you have pretty much zero responsibilities outside of yourself.  You can do anything.  You enlist, you start a life.  You may find that life may get in the way of what you want to do later.  You may meet someone, get married, have kids, decide to get out....are you still going to go to college?  You can always enlist after you graduate from college.  You may not be able to easily go back to college after you get out of the Army (assuming that you do not make it a career).  Graduating from college first gives you more flexibility for your future and keeps the maximum amount of doors open for you.


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## asewland (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice, guys. While my decision isn't set in stone, I've decided that I'll go to college and get my Bachelor's degree before enlisting. While part of me is itching to enlist straight out of High School, I realize it would better for me in the long run if I have a degree.


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## 0699 (Oct 11, 2012)

Teufel said:


> Not much to add to the really good posts already made but here is something to think about. Right now you have pretty much zero responsibilities outside of yourself. You can do anything. You enlist, you start a life. You may find that life may get in the way of what you want to do later. You may meet someone, get married, have kids, decide to get out....are you still going to go to college? You can always enlist after you graduate from college. You may not be able to easily go back to college after you get out of the Army (assuming that you do not make it a career). Graduating from college first gives you more flexibility for your future and keeps the maximum amount of doors open for you.


 
I didn't start college till I was 34 (finished when I was 41; a lot of people go to college for seven years... ) and did it while I was married, two young kids, working, coaching youth sports, and deploying. It would definately have been easier to get done without any of those responsibilities. I will say I think I took it more seriously than I would have at 18, and I probably got more out of it, but it wasn't easy.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 11, 2012)

asewland said:


> Thanks for all the advice, guys. While my decision isn't set in stone, I've decided that I'll go to college and get my Bachelor's degree before enlisting. While part of me is itching to enlist straight out of High School, I realize it would better for me in the long run if I have a degree.


 
Good plan.  I think it's a good call, and it will probably make your parents happy ;)

So now, the question is "what school, and what major?"


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## Hillclimb (Oct 11, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Good plan. I think it's a good call, and it will probably make your parents happy ;)
> 
> So now, the question is "what school, and what major?"


 
Cosmetology all the way.


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## Totentanz (Oct 11, 2012)

asewland said:


> Thanks for all the advice, guys. While my decision isn't set in stone, I've decided that I'll go to college and get my Bachelor's degree before enlisting. While part of me is itching to enlist straight out of High School, I realize it would better for me in the long run if I have a degree.


 
It will also give you more time to figure out what you want to do in the military.  When I left for college, I had an inkling, but honestly no solid plan as to which service I might even want to serve in.  By paying attention to the traffic on this site (and others), I had at least an idea of what options were on the table by the time I graduated.  You've gotten good advice here and developed (IMO) a pretty good plan.  Now use your time and resources wisely.


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## asewland (Oct 11, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Good plan.  I think it's a good call, and it will probably make your parents happy ;)
> 
> So now, the question is "what school, and what major?"


School: I'd like to go out of state but financially it would make more sense to go to a school in-state (btw I live in Maryland)
Major: Right now, I'm focusing on a degree in the STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) fields considering I have both interest and skill in them.


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## goon175 (Oct 11, 2012)

> Not much to add to the really good posts already made but here is something to think about. Right now you have pretty much zero responsibilities outside of yourself. You can do anything. You enlist, you start a life. You may find that life may get in the way of what you want to do later. You may meet someone, get married, have kids, decide to get out....are you still going to go to college? *You can always enlist after you graduate from college.* You may not be able to easily go back to college after you get out of the Army (assuming that you do not make it a career). Graduating from college first gives you more flexibility for your future and keeps the maximum amount of doors open for you.


 
I'm going to play a little devils advocate here. It is an easy assumption to make that you can always do the military. But I would say that you CAN"T always do the military, but you can always do college. I can tell you that I turn away more college grads than I take, for the simple reason that in that 4 years a lot of stuff seems to happen. I'll give a few examples of things I have personally seen as a recruiter:

I recieved a UPM (unlawful possesion of marijuana- only a traffic ticket in NY) while at a party where people were smoking. The cops gave everyone present a UPM. RESULT: Cannot enlist, Army will not accept any drug charges.
I busted my knee playing rugby, had to get some screws put in, but I'm good to go now. RESULT: Cannot get medically cleared for screws in knee joint.
I have some financial issues from college, defaulted on some personal loans I took out for living expenses, and had a credit card charged off. RESULT: Can join, but not for any job that requires a clearance (all SOF jobs).
Now, if you get hurt in the military, you can still go to college. The reverse is not true. If you get in legal or financial trouble, you can still go to college, not the military. So, that is something to take into consideration. Another thing is that if you cannot get enough scholarships to cover school, you will have significant debt to deal with starting in your early 20's. If you go to college while in the military (i.e. green to gold or using your T.A.) you don't have to worry about any college debt.

One last thing. When I was facing this same exact decision my Jr. year of H.S., what tipped the scales in favor of me enlisting right out of H.S. was the fact that I did not want to miss the war. Now, obviously I could have gone to college and still gone in time to do my part, but I didn't know that at the time, and the way things are going you may or may not have the same opportunities to participate in the current happenings in the world. I don't know if that is a motivation for you or not, but it was mine back then and is the reason that I will be re-enlisting again in the hopes of returning to the fight.

Again, just giving an alternate view on things. I think ultimately any decision you make will be the right one. As I said before, both sides have pro's/con's.


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## AWP (Oct 11, 2012)

To further muddy the waters, there's Option C: Both. Sort of.

The reality is that some of us entering college right out of HS did not do that well. Lack of motivation/ goals/ degree and/ or immaturity is a nice recipe for failure.

It was for me at least and I doubt I'm alone.

For me, after a year of college I had something very sad, like 9 or 12 credits to my name and I was a fulltime student.  After Basic, AIT, and Airborne I had the fire to attend college, but no clue what I wanted to do. I was lucky and caught a 6 month deployment to Guatemala (I was a Guard guy). To be candid, that's when I grew up, that's when the lightbulb turned on.

I'm not saying to go into school and half-ass it, but the reality is if you're head isn't into school then spending time and money for F's and other funny letters on your transcripts is probably an "indicator."

The hardest thing about Plan C is knowing when to fish and when to cut bait.


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## 0699 (Oct 11, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> To further muddy the waters, there's Option C: Both. Sort of.
> 
> The reality is that some of us entering college right out of HS did not do that well. Lack of motivation/ goals/ degree and/ or immaturity is a nice recipe for failure.
> 
> ...


 
And I hesitate to say this, but if you enlist first, money for college is not the monster it can be otherwise.  I finished my BA on AD; it cost me about $1,000 out of pocket for books & fees and TA picked up the rest.  I still have my entire GI Bill available for graduate school whenever I get off my ass and start...


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## Grey (Oct 11, 2012)

asewland said:


> I believe that joining up first would be the best option for me. My parents refuse to see it


This is something that I dealt with, actually that I am still dealing with. Although I had a huge interest in the military since I was 8 years old, it somehow came as a surprise when I told my mother I wanted to be a Ranger when I was a junior in highschool. Do not let your parents pressure you into giving up something you want, not when it's your future. Although I love my mother dearly, the past couple of years has been a struggle to say the least. When she asked what a Ranger was the only word she had to hear was "Army" and "Infantry". She went off about how the only people who do that either had no other choice or are crazy. So I simply told her that must be me then. (But even after all that I enlisted in the Air Force:-") If you feel you should choose one thing over another because it will make them happier with you then you have made the wrong choice. 

Great stuff in this thread though! Listen to these guys they know everything. This is a pretty common question and with all the perspectives we have here this thread should be a reference to those who have the same decision to make.


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## asewland (Oct 13, 2012)

Grey said:


> This is something that I dealt with, actually that I am still dealing with. Although I had a huge interest in the military since I was 8 years old, it somehow came as a surprise when I told my mother I wanted to be a Ranger when I was a junior in highschool. Do not let your parents pressure you into giving up something you want, not when it's your future. Although I love my mother dearly, the past couple of years has been a struggle to say the least. When she asked what a Ranger was the only word she had to hear was "Army" and "Infantry". She went off about how the only people who do that either had no other choice or are crazy. So I simply told her that must be me then. (But even after all that I enlisted in the Air Force:-") If you feel you should choose one thing over another because it will make them happier with you then you have made the wrong choice.
> 
> Great stuff in this thread though! Listen to these guys they know everything. This is a pretty common question and with all the perspectives we have here this thread should be a reference to those who have the same decision to make.


My mom's okay with me joining the Army. However she wants me to get my degree first and go in as an officer. I see why she'd want me to go in with a degree but I've already told her that I'm going in as enlisted. She still won't accept it.


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## SkrewzLoose (Oct 13, 2012)

If I had it to do all over again, I would have enlisted straight out of HS and let XYZ branch pay for all my school along the way or after I got out.  
I didn't have the level of focus required for (all) college classes when I was 18.  Some of my lower level classes were a breeze, but after my 5th semester my GPA had dipped below a 2.0 because I *was not applying myself*.  Did I have the ability to do well, absolutely.  Do I now (10 years later) have the ability to do well coupled with the maturity and good study habits I lacked previously, no doubt.  I was not a big partier or anything like that, I just did not apply myself when it came to school work.  
YMMV


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## Ves (Oct 17, 2012)

I'd like to dogpile onto Free and Skrewz sentiment.  I attended college all of about 2 weeks, largely due to lack of direction, and saw very quickly that that wasn't the life I wanted.  Looking back at who I was at that point in my life all I would've done is wasted a large amount of money and based on the first two weeks wouldn't have done very well.  I know I would've been someone to constantly ditch out assignments, attend class as little as possible, and do the bare minimum to pass.

The Air Force gave me a few years to grow up, to embrace doing things correctly and well for their own sake.


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## JustAnotherJ (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm glad I was a stupid college kid for 2 years before going military.  I got an AA out of it:/ but now I've got 3 associates degrees and 1 class from my bachelors.  The AF paid for all of it,while I had fun.


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## Deadpool (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm actually going through the same exact process as you at the moment OP, that being choosing as to whether I'll go to College or Enlist. But instead of going the Army SOF route, I'm looking at becoming a SEAL and (not trying to violate OPSEC or be a little prick and I apologize if I'm coming off as one) hopefully one day be able to 'operate'. In a nutshell, I don't know if my family can really afford to pay for a 4 year degree - it basically seems that either going the Service Academy route (provided I make it in) or getting an ROTC scholarship (again provided I get one) is the only way I could really do it at the moment. And I have no problem being an Officer, obviously it's very honorable - but I'm not really doing it for the title. My concern is how my time will be limited as an Officer, from what I hear (from Officers mind you) is that you can operate up to the O-5 Level whereas all you hear from SOF enlisted men is that your time is cut drastically short when it comes to being a SEAL/SF Soldier/Ranger/Operator. If anyone could help out I'd appreciate it. Thank you.


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## BrianP (Nov 5, 2012)

asewland said:


> School: I'd like to go out of state but financially it would make more sense to go to a school in-state (btw I live in Maryland)
> Major: Right now, I'm focusing on a degree in the STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) fields considering I have both interest and skill in them.


 
I also live in MD,  IF you wanted to kinda go for both worlds you could go for the MD ARNG. You could knock out OSUT (Infantry would be the best route to move up to SF obv.) and that will pay for your college, and while your in it while you can decide if the military is good for you. Deployments are dying down for the 2014 drawdown and the only ones leaving out of Maryland are the MP's and we (Infantry) just got back from a 12 month deployment. From there 20th SFG is right in MD when your done with college. As soon as you want in you talk to them directly. They will handle everything else from what I'm told.

Thats pretty much the route I took, Enlisted 4 days after I turned 18 and went down to Benning for OSUT and a month and a half after OSUT I deployed for 12 months. Now I'm in college and probably about to re-enlist (not even 21 yet lol).. I'll be honest tho, I wish I went active. The motivation to PT with college going on is non-existent for me, idk how it will be for you. After a college degree I hope to go active duty and put in for the 75th, But from what I hear the odds of a NG infantrymen getting approved for active AND the RR are pretty damn low.

Just some more to consider


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## DA SWO (Nov 5, 2012)

Tell you what I told my son.

Do a year in college, then ask yourself if you want to go back.

He did a year didn't like it so he enlisted.  He's seeing the world (one inflight emergency at a time) and having a blast.
He also knows that someday the ANG career will be over and has talked about re-entering college.
You can always do your 4,or 6 years; then find a college with ROTC and get your commission the easy way.


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## yankfan (Nov 6, 2012)

Great thread, I was in the same boat this past fall. I had one year of college community college under my belt and was really debating on whether or not to enlist or transfer somewhere. My parents were 100% against me enlisting before college. They think that if I go to college that I will want to be an officer afterwards. Well as of right now, in my second year of college attending University of Louisville, I still plan on enlisting after. They grunt and groan about it but its ultimately my decision, and they know that as well. Trust me I still get that itch to enlist, as it is my dream to be a Marine, but I know now that I have made the right decision with regards to my life right now, and now I have two and a half more years to prepare myself mentally, physically, all the while gaining knowledge day by day! So just stay motivated and work your ass off in whatever path you take


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## BrianP (Nov 6, 2012)

Your dream is to be a marine? That's some low aspirations lol. The officer route is much easier on the body and a lot better financially, but you loose the thrill of the army in my opinion. Sure you can go to ranger school and all that, but there is just wayy to much paper work followed buy dealing with all the shenanigans the enlisted solider did when they were actually having fun lol. The way I see it there are two paths, enjoy yourself with low pay (enlisted), or have a more boring path with high pay (officer)


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## Marauder06 (Nov 6, 2012)

Being an officer is "boring?"  You've been an officer for a long time, then?


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## BrianP (Nov 6, 2012)

just spent alot of time with my LT at the outpost when I was deployed, seemed like a whole lotta shit for a whole lotta nothing. constantly in the TOC doing paper work and trying to impress higher rank officers. I'm probably not as knowledgeable on the duty of officers as many of you are, but from what I've witnessed, yeah it's not exactly fun.


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## goon175 (Nov 6, 2012)

Their are pro's/con's to both sides, it just depends on what things are important to you as an individual.


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## Hillclimb (Nov 6, 2012)

BrianP said:


> Your dream is to be a Marine? That's some low aspirations lol.


 
Its a good 25m target and you're allowed to have more than one dream. Not sure I get where you were heading on that.


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## BrianP (Nov 6, 2012)

It's just some friendly banter, don't get butt hurt.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 6, 2012)

BrianP said:


> It's just some friendly banter, don't get butt hurt.


 
Brian-

Look, your "banter" is neither friendly or funny.  We don't know you.  You're unverified, so you're not one of us.  In this thread you have insulted the officers' corps and the Marine Corps, and have probably managed to alienate both groups here on the site.  That's not a good way to start off here.  I suggest you just learn from this and move on.


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## BrianP (Nov 6, 2012)

Roger that. Like I said, I didn't mean to disrespect either. I've been lurking around a little over a year, but on about 99% of the threads I find listening better then posting. I guess I should stick to that lol. How do I verify? I tried when I initially registered and couldn't figure it out. Moving on.


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## Marauder06 (Nov 6, 2012)

Scroll up to the top of the page, there's a "vetting" tab, you can use it to submit a DD-214 (minus your SSN), a set of orders, your enlistment paperwork, anything that shows you're legit .mil.  After you do that, we can get you hooked up.


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## asewland (Nov 7, 2012)

Question:
If I was to do NG while in college, how easy would it be to separate from NG and go AD once I graduate from college?


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## BrianP (Nov 7, 2012)

We have a few guys who are doing that in our unit. It's not impossible at all, the recruiters aren't exactly thrilled to help you out because it does not count towards their 'quota' if you will. If you find one who is truly propitious, he help you get active when the time comes. If that doesn't work, a few of my buddies have thrown some money towards the recruiter and they were glad to help out. It really all depends on whats going on at the time you want to go active. When I was going through OSUT they were actually offering people to change their contracts from NG to AD. But with the draw down and 200,000 army soldiers being cut at the moment its a bit more difficult. In 4 years it might/can be completely different. Nothing is ever impossible though! (PS. If you become an NCO, the higher rank the harder it is to join AD, unless you take a rank drop)


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## amlove21 (Nov 8, 2012)

BrianP said:


> If that doesn't work, a few of my buddies have thrown some money towards the recruiter and they were glad to help out. It really all depends on whats going on at the time you want to go active.


 


Sooooo, let me see if I am reading this correctly. Did you just say you know people that have offered bribes to recruiters to help them move form NG to AD? Because that's what it seems.

Considering Mara gave you a pass on your behavior thus far (banter, witty as it may be), I would suggest strongly that you take a self-imposed break from posting.


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## BrianP (Nov 8, 2012)

In no way did I say I have done, or encourage such behavior. How am I the slightest bit at fault for simply saying what people have done. I don't think it should be that way at all, but I don't think that recruiters should be so reluctant to help you transfer because it doesn't 'benefit' them. I'll take a break from the forums; no worries. It seems as its impossible to even talk without offending someone around here. We're supposed to have some of the thickest skin in the word, but god forbid you mention what people have done in the past. I'm baffled by the responses I get here.
For the record, the recruiters that did that did not 'hook them up' in any special way. They simply allowed them do what the soldier IS allowed to do, but it put an urgency on the issue, so it wasn't a 'when i get around to it' type thing.


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## goon175 (Nov 8, 2012)

You are not offending anyone.....


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## amlove21 (Nov 8, 2012)

BrianP said:


> ...entire post...


 
Alright. I am going to put this as nicely as possible. You are not offending anyone. We are not "offended" when we respond to you, we are telling you how we expect you to behave on this board, and in this community. You said "we are supposed to have thick skin"- let me be clear. There is no "we". There is "us"- actual members of SOF units performing those missions, and there is "you"- a wanna be stomping his feet before he has earned the right to do so. You have failed twice now when a mod or an admin has offered you advice, so now I will _tell_ you in plain English.

Your posts here are immature, unprofessional, and unwanted. Your response of "I DID NOTHING WRONG Y R U GUYS SO MEAN" only cemented that perception of you as a soldier, grown man, and member of this site. You are an unverified member who seemingly can not adhere to rules, follow instruction from those that know better, and one that responds immaturely when these facts are pointed out. You even went as far as to tell people that "people I know gave the recruiters extra money to help them out" and then got upset about me calling BS. Not only did you actually say that, but you _defended it_ when pressed.

The members of this board are who you profess to want to be, SOF professionals that give their most valuable resource- time- to this board of their own volition. I refuse to let you waste any more of it.

I am leaving the thread open for others to discuss the topic. Your inputs here are not needed, or wanted. If you have an issue, you will address it through PM. This is not an option.


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## AWP (Nov 9, 2012)

asewland said:


> Question:
> If I was to do NG while in college, how easy would it be to separate from NG and go AD once I graduate from college?


 
The NG tends to frown upon such activities, but that can vary from state to state and MOSQ among other things.

In other words, don't bank on going NG to AD. You want AD, go AD.


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## asewland (Nov 9, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> The NG tends to frown upon such activities, but that can vary from state to state and MOSQ among other things.
> 
> In other words, don't bank on going NG to AD. You want AD, go AD.


Thanks for the info, Freefalling. As I. Said before, I' most likely going to stick with my plan of getting a degree before enlisting. I migh change it if financial burdens become a serious issue or the military situation changes drastically.


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## DAVE101 (Nov 9, 2012)

Your contract could very well end by the time you graduate.  Note that for NG/reserve your contract starts from the day of signing, and your training pipeline will take up a good deal of time as well. For example "my friend" signed a 6 year contract in October senior year and his End Term of Service (ETS) is the October following college graduation from a standard "4 year plan." Fortunately in that case you would not have to worry about whether your unit will release you.


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## 8654Maine (Dec 12, 2012)

Mod, I'd like to post if I may.

I'm a newb here.  I have sent in my DD214 and am awaiting verfication.

I will not remark on BrianP's posts, since it was handle well already.

I'd like to respond to the OP's question and give you another example of option C.

It was worth it to me because it gave me a true appreciation of both sides.

I did 2 years at Cornell.  Got on the wrong side of work ethic and lost my scholarship.

I enlisted in the Corps right after sophomore finals and went to boot camp basically right away.

Made honor man and my DI's had a conniption when they learned that I wanted 03xx, infantry.  My goal was Force Recon, all the way.  Back in 85, there was no recon pipeline (that I knew of).

I made it.  Had the best and most educational experience of my life.  Truly shaped who I am today.

My Platoon Commander was one of the greatest officers I've ever known.  He gave me the push to get higher education.  If it wasn't for his encouragement I wouldn't have an MD from another Ivy League.  I am thankful for his advice.

If I could change it, I'd probably stick w/ a military career and have them pay for all of my future education.  

It all comes down to what you want and the effort you put into it.  Too many young folks today want HSLD but don't want to the sweat equity.


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## asewland (Dec 13, 2012)

8654Maine said:


> Mod, I'd like to post if I may.
> 
> I'm a newb here. I have sent in my DD214 and am awaiting verfication.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, 8654Maine. It helps to be reminded that that I have an option C as well. With that being said, I still plan on getting a degree before enlisting. This decision of mine has been strengthened by the fact that PSAT scores were fairly high (84th percentile) and my SAT scores are going to be coming in soon (which I'm confident will be at the very least decent). My only worry id the financial aspect of getting a degree.


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## Etype (Dec 13, 2012)

asewland said:


> I've decided to take goon's advice and come up with a quick pros and cons list for both options.
> 
> College Pros
> -better job opportunities
> ...


 
Another thing to remember is that college is absolutely free when you are active duty. You'll have to take most of it as online classes, although a lot of people still find time to go to night classes. Tuition assistance is capped at something like $2,400 a year, but that's not bad when you don't have to pay for a room or food (don't forget, housing and meals are free for single guys in the military).


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## asewland (Dec 14, 2012)

Etype said:


> Another thing to remember is that college is absolutely free when you are active duty. You'll have to take most of it as online classes, although a lot of people still find time to go to night classes. Tuition assistance is capped at something like $2,400 a year, but that's not bad when you don't have to pay for a room or food (don't forget, housing and meals are free for single guys in the military).


Disregard my last post, it was a mistake. Mods, please delete it.
Thaks for the feedback, Etype. I have a specific question; how long on average would it take to obtain a 4yr degree if I took night classes while on AD.


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## 0699 (Dec 14, 2012)

asewland said:


> Disregard my last post, it was a mistake. Mods, please delete it.
> Thaks for the feedback, Etype. I have a specific question; *how long on average would it take to obtain a 4yr degree if I took night classes while on AD*.


 
Took me seven years.


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## Marauder06 (Dec 14, 2012)

Took me five years, and I was in college full time


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## 0699 (Dec 14, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> Took me five years, and I was in college full time


 
Show off...


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## Marauder06 (Dec 14, 2012)

That's what lack of motivation and immaturity will get you.  I was very fortunate to have a very patient and understanding family, and ROTC program.


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## 8654Maine (Dec 14, 2012)

I have total respect for those who can get a bachelor's during AD.


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## Etype (Dec 14, 2012)

asewland said:


> Disregard my last post, it was a mistake. Mods, please delete it.
> Thaks for the feedback, Etype. I have a specific question; how long on average would it take to obtain a 4yr degree if I took night classes while on AD.


After SFQC, I was only 4 classes away from an associates, it counts toward all of your electives plus some bussiness admin stuff.  I can't answer for a bachelors, because I don't have one. There's a guy on my team, however, who has been in for 12 years- he has a bachelors and 2 masters, all done while on active duty between SF and Ranger Bn.


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## asewland (Dec 15, 2012)

0699 said:


> Took me seven years.


Mind if I ask what major you pursued?


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## 0699 (Dec 15, 2012)

asewland said:


> Mind if I ask what major you pursued?


 
History & political studies


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## asewland (Dec 17, 2012)

Etype said:


> After SFQC, I was only 4 classes away from an associates, it counts toward all of your electives plus some bussiness admin stuff. I can't answer for a bachelors, because I don't have one. There's a guy on my team, however, who has been in for 12 years- he has a bachelors and 2 masters, all done while on active duty between SF and Ranger Bn.


What were his majors?


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## Etype (Dec 18, 2012)

They are all bullshit business admin degrees, but when you have a Ranger Bn/SF resume plus a masters, it doesn't matter.


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## 8654Maine (Dec 18, 2012)

Get a PhD.


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## asewland (Dec 18, 2012)

Etype said:


> They are all bullshit business admin degrees, but when you have a Ranger Bn/SF resume plus a masters, it doesn't matter.


I've always wondered what kind of jobs you get with those...


> Get a PhD.


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## Etype (Dec 25, 2012)

asewland said:


> I've always wondered what kind of jobs you get with those...


The kinds that start at 150k a year on top of your retirement.


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## Chris16 (Mar 28, 2013)

I am also in the same position as the OP. Right now I am only a Freshmen in high-school and I have a whole lot ahead of me before I would serve, but I always wanted to serve and I can't see myself doing something else. I'm looking at the Air Force special operation side and the Army Special Forces as some of my main choices. My parents are really pushing me to go to college before I join the military. I understand their opinion as they have seen a lot more of the world than me and have a better understanding. I know my parents really value college, because my dad went to college for 11 and a half years to get a PHD and became a research geneticist. As a child he moved a lot with his dad being in the Air Force, moving from base to base all over Europe. He didn't know that he would become what he is today, hell the jobs he told me about that he did before this were crazy: like working in Colorado on oil rigs, almost having his (you know what) chopped off. He didn't grow up with a lot, but he worked his ass off in college and now he's living the life as his own boss. I want to serve my country because I feel it's my calling, I know I am going to do that. Going to college seems more for my parents than me though. I'm only 15 though and have a lot more ahead of me, and haven't come close to what my parents have experienced. If they think I should go to college, I'm sure they have a reason for it and know something I don't know. 

This leads me to say that my generation seems to think they know everything and know how the world works. The fact is we've been handed everything on a silver platter and disregarded what the generations before us have said. What my generation does not understand is how our role will greatly impact the generations to come and the world. We are the future and the generations before us are trying to communicate this to us, but we're to busy playing videogames and stuffing twinkies down our throat.


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## yankfan (Mar 28, 2013)

Chris, I was in your boat when I was in high school. Wanted to enlist, parents wanted me to go to college first. I wanted to enlist with a recon contract for the Marine Corps. I am finishing up my sophomore year here at University of Louisville right now, and to this day I still want to be a Recon Marine, but that's after college. I plan on talking to an OSO (officer selection officer) at the start of this summer to see what my options are for becoming a Marine Officer now. My advice, and take it however you want, is to give it some time and do some research. Who know's, you may change your plans. As mentioned earlier I did, I wanted to enlist, now I'm at college, and plan to become an officer. As you said you are only a freshmen, you have PLENTY of time to decide what you want to do. In the meantime, get in shape, don't do anything stupid that is going to ruin your chances of joining the service, and get good grades.  Good Luck with your decision and always stay motivated


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## asewland (Mar 28, 2013)

> This leads me to say that my generation seems to think they know everything and know how the world works. The fact is we've been handed everything on a silver platter and disregarded what the generations before us have said. What my generation does not understand is how our role will greatly impact the generations to come and the world. We are the future and the generations before us are trying to communicate this to us, but we're to busy playing videogames and stuffing twinkies down our throat.


Coudln't agree more. On a lighter note, I for one enjoy twinkies  (even if itwill eventually kill me)



yankfan said:


> Chris, I was in your boat when I was in high school. Wanted to enlist, parents wanted me to go to college first. I wanted to enlist with a recon contract for the Marine Corps. I am finishing up my sophomore year here at University of Louisville right now, and to this day I still want to be a Recon Marine, but that's after college. I plan on talking to an OSO (officer selection officer) at the start of this summer to see what my options are for becoming a Marine Officer now. My advice, and take it however you want, is to give it some time and do some research. Who know's, you may change your plans. As mentioned earlier I did, I wanted to enlist, now I'm at college, and plan to become an officer. As you said you are only a freshmen, you have PLENTY of time to decide what you want to do. In the meantime, get in shape, don't do anything stupid that is going to ruin your chances of joining the service, and get good grades. Good Luck with your decision and always stay motivated


What are you majoring in?


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## yankfan (Mar 28, 2013)

I am majoring in Exercise Science. I could never figure out what the hell I wanted to major in until last year. I figured, I like working out, why not learn about the science behind the body and its movements? I am enjoying Anatomy and Physiology, and can't wait to get into Biomechanics and all that fun stuff


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## SkrewzLoose (Mar 28, 2013)

To those who are considering college before the Military, I pose this question to you.  (And I'm not asking because I think you're wrong, so please don't take it as that)
Why would you not enlist out of HS or by the age of 21/22 and let the Military pay for your college/tech school/etc through the 9/11 of GI Bill and then decide if you want to be an Officer or SOF or both or neither?


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## DasBoot (Mar 28, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> To those who are considering college before the Military, I pose this question to you.  (And I'm not asking because I think you're wrong, so please don't take it as that)
> Why would you not enlist out of HS or by the age of 21/22 and let the Military pay for your college/tech school/etc through the 9/11 of GI Bill and then decide if you want to be an Officer or SOF or both or neither?


I had the chance to go to school for free with a combo of CH. 35 GI bill benefits and Florida VA assistance. My dad, a long with about 3 SOF guys from an assortment of services, told me to go to college first. So I did and I think I have a much better chance of success at BUD/S or RASP at 22 than at 18. That's me though and if I didn't have the means for a debt free education I would have been signing on the dotted line way back in May 2010.


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## Chris16 (Mar 29, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> To those who are considering college before the Military, I pose this question to you. (And I'm not asking because I think you're wrong, so please don't take it as that)
> Why would you not enlist out of HS or by the age of 21/22 and let the Military pay for your college/tech school/etc through the 9/11 of GI Bill and then decide if you want to be an Officer or SOF or both or neither?


If I were to enlist straight out of high-school, it seems like you'd still be in your own little world and haven't matured enough. If I join at 21 or 22 but not go to college in that time period from when I graduated highschool, what would I be doing? Staying in shape and working at McDonalds, that sounds like being a bum to me. Might as well have joined when I was 18 because my maturity would probably not increase. I might as well continue my education out of highschool, and go to college. That way I'd probably know what's it like to live on my own, gain some life experience and maturity, which would help me to be a better candidate for a special operation force.


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## NBC-Guy (Mar 29, 2013)

Consider what Marauder said. Enlist in a Reserve Component and go SMP. You will have FTA, Some GI Bill, and make that SMP money. Eventually you can work your way into a Scholarship. If you wish to Commission into AD, then strive to be the Best (even if you are staying Reserve Component do your best). GPA, PT, Leadership skills, etc all determine if you will be AD or Reserves Officer. We have a couple LT's that came from ROTC and had a chip on their shoulder for not commissioning to AD. They are coming along nicely, but as everyone said, you have time. Keep your nose clean and stay in shape.

Edit: You may also be able to get Air Assault and Airborne thru ROTC as well. It was an option when I was in. Of course it is based off an OML so refer back to doing your best and being the best.


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## DAVE101 (Mar 29, 2013)

*Tuition Assistance has been suspended* as of 8 March 2013 (restored 26 March). For those that aren't aware, this was up to $4,500 a year on top of any GI Bill, scholarships, grants, or what have you, for civilian education.

I was able to get airborne as a cadet, and I know some others that got both airborne and air assault, while the top of the class usually got something exciting like Arctic Warfare. This is obviously depends on the size of the school's program.

Edit: Updated TA info. Hell yeah Mac!


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## mac21 (Mar 29, 2013)

DAVE101 said:


> *Tuition Assistance has been suspended* as of 8 March 2013 (army and marines). For those that aren't aware, this was up to $4,500 a year on top of any GI Bill, scholarships, grants, or what have you, for civilian education.


 
It was recently restored by Congress.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/military-tuition-assistance_n_2974578.html


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## SkrewzLoose (Apr 2, 2013)

Chris16 said:


> If I were to enlist straight out of high-school, it seems like you'd still be in your own little world and haven't matured enough. If I join at 21 or 22 but not go to college in that time period from when I graduated highschool, what would I be doing? Staying in shape and working at McDonalds, that sounds like being a bum to me. Might as well have joined when I was 18 because my maturity would probably not increase. I might as well continue my education out of highschool, and go to college. That way I'd probably know what's it like to live on my own, gain some life experience and maturity, which would help me to be a better candidate for a special operation force.


You're a freshman in HS, right?


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## Chris16 (Apr 2, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> You're a freshman in HS, right?


Yes. 

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## Salt USMC (Apr 3, 2013)

Chris16 said:


> Yes.


So how can you profess this supposed knowledge about your maturity not increasing between 18 and 22?  I was a fucking stupid kid when I enlisted at 18.  Four years and three Iraq deployments later, I was 22 and far, far wiser and more mature.  You do a ton of maturing when you leave high school and, consequently, the safety of your parents.  Whether that is in the military or college or in the workforce is immaterial; it WILL happen.  The only way it won't is if you stay inside the protective bubble of your helicopter parents and do nothing for those four years. 

But I'm digressing here.  College, or enlist first?  Enlisting will force you out of "your own little world" in a very direct way and into a wholly different one in a short period of time.  College will do that too, but to a lesser extent, and you'll likely have more control over whatever box it puts you in.  I'd err on the side of "College", honestly, now that I've actually experienced a little bit of it.  But beware: If you DO decide to enlist after getting your degree, you need to understand that you're still a junior enlisted guy with NCOs over you who may not have the same education level.  They're far more experienced and probably more world-savvy, but they probably don't have a degree.  DONT LET THAT GET TO YOUR HEAD.  I had this one junior Marine who was a South Korean expat.  Very smart guy, had worked at a video game company prior to enlisting.  His highest aspiration was to get into one of the enlisted commissioning programs in the Corps.  Unfortunately, he was never successful at this,  as the selected candidates were typically higher ranking enlisted (He was a PFC or LCpl when he tried).  He did not take this well and constantly complained about the menial bullshit work he had to do.  I, being the good Sergeant that I was, tried to mentor him and give him a bit of responsibility along with a bit of perspective, but he just wasn't having any of it.  He always said he wanted a deployment, as well, but when one finally came down the pipe he weaseled out of it.  That was the last straw.  After I left I heard they put him on every bullshit duty imaginable until he PCSed.  I assume he's now counting down the days until his contract is up.


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## Chris16 (Apr 3, 2013)

Deathy McDeath said:


> So how can you profess this supposed knowledge about your maturity not increasing between 18 and 22? I was a fucking stupid kid when I enlisted at 18. Four years and three Iraq deployments later, I was 22 and far, far wiser and more mature. You do a ton of maturing when you leave high school and, consequently, the safety of your parents. Whether that is in the military or college or in the workforce is immaterial; it WILL happen. The only way it won't is if you stay inside the protective bubble of your helicopter parents and do nothing for those four years..


_I never said your maturity wouldn't increase between 18 and 22. What I meant was that to gain maturity you have to  gain experience _
in life. 

_If I were to enlist straight out of high-school, it seems like you'd still be in your own little world and haven't matured enough*(it would be a shock to your system, I didn't mean you wouldn't mature between 18 and 22.*__). If I join at 21 or 22 but not go to college in that time period from when I graduated highschool, what would I be doing? Staying in shape and working at McDonalds, that sounds like being a bum to me. Might as well have joined when I was 18 because my maturity would probably not increase. I might as well continue my education out of highschool, and go to college. That way I'd probably know what's it like to live on my own, gain some life experience and maturity, which would help me to be a better candidate for a special operation force. _


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## Salt USMC (Apr 4, 2013)

Chris16 said:
			
		

> _I never said your maturity wouldn't increase between 18 and 22._





Chris16 said:


> Staying in shape and working at McDonalds, that sounds like being a bum to me. Might as well have joined when I was 18 because my maturity would probably not increase.


 
Your maturity definitely would increase from four years of working at McDonalds.


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## Chris16 (Apr 4, 2013)

Deathy McDeath said:


> Your maturity definitely would increase from four years of working at McDonalds.


I would still be living at home with my parents. 

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## SkrewzLoose (Apr 4, 2013)

Chris16 , you need to look up "the first rule of holes" and apply it here.  

I don't think you fully understand all the options you have available (because you're a freshman in HS) and that shows up very clearly in your responses.


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## Chris16 (Apr 4, 2013)

SkrewzLoose said:


> Chris16 , you need to look up "the first rule of holes" and apply it here.
> 
> I don't think you fully understand all the options you have available (because you're a freshman in HS) and that shows up very clearly in your responses.


I understand, going back in my lane.


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## SkrewzLoose (Apr 4, 2013)

Also, the whole maturity thing holds very little weight.  Don't you think the (insert Military branch here) expects/understands that most of their new recruits are going to fall into that 18-22 y/o demographic?  Basic training is the fire hose method applied to maturity.  It's also crawl/walk/run.  
Back to the age/maturity thing, that's the reason you have different briefs/presentations during Basic.  We had briefs about the GI Bill, 9/11 Bill, TSP, Navy Fed and AFB came and talked to us, we had a week long class on personal financial management.  While all of this was old news to me (I was 29 y/o at the time) I wish I had some of this knowledge imparted on me 10 years prior.  It's understood that this might very well be many recruits first real "job/paycheck" and while you may not think so while you're getting your dick kicked off for not folding your skivvies correctly, your instructors want to see you succeed.  
There will always be those who fail to adapt or just don't get it or don't belong, but they tend to be the exceptions, not the rule.


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## AWP (Apr 4, 2013)

While this thread has probably run it's course, my take for those in Chris' position of college vs enlisting:

You are a FRESHMAN in high school. Even at the sophmore level I'd tell you to work your ass off as if you were applying to a service academy. Why? Did you waste time? No. You see, it is better to have options than to have hopes and dreams or "plans." Work to be accepted into a service academy. If you fail you've set yourself up to attend a college or university with ROTC. You've also set yourself up for a potential ROTC scholarship. Don't want to do that and enlist instead? Great, you still had options you could reject. That's much better than waking up your junior or senior year and realizing your options are very limited.

Unless you know what path you're going to take, work to climb a mountain.


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