# A&S 16-1



## buzzkill.0621 (Sep 24, 2015)

I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been made yet since there's just one more quarter left til show time.
Feel free to post current stats and questions in this thread as well as constructive criticism.

Looking forward to connecting with a few of the candidates.


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## Sandman3 (Sep 25, 2015)

Goodluck, don't quit.


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## THEJUGGERNAUT (Sep 29, 2015)

buzzkill.0621 said:


> I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been made yet since there's just one more quarter left til show time.
> Feel free to post current stats and questions in this thread as well as constructive criticism.
> 
> Looking forward to connecting with a few of the candidates.


A couple weeks ago I restarted the 10 week prep guide. I've been adding in extra calisthenics and swim days, but that's all. I'm coming off a muscle strain so just trying to stay healthy.

My times are,
3mile run- 17:15-18:20(Depends how fresh I am)
pull-ups- 21
Crunches- 100
6mile ruck- 1:08(holding a 10lb plate)
300m swim- 10:40(Slick. I just started swimming in cammies this week, so the next update will be in cammies)

Swimming is my biggest weakness. I've been trying to hit the pool at least five times a week. I just PCS'ed to Lejeune. If anybody on the east coast wants to get together for some training, shoot me a message.

Question: Short term goal for pool work should I be going for speed or endurance?


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## buzzkill.0621 (Sep 29, 2015)

From what I've been told I'd work on speed for the 300.
What I usually do is warm up slick doing a few laps of breast then side stroke on each side, followed by some crossovers to build confidence and breath holding ability.
After my warm up I'll either do the 300m slick or in cammies just depending on how froggy I'm feeling followed by a strip swim doing around 200m per item stripped
trying to keep around the same average time.

Another thing that I would add is to swim semi fatigued since you're not going to swim completely fresh during A&S.


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## THEJUGGERNAUT (Sep 29, 2015)

I appreciate the advice. I'm definitely going to implement a lot of that. I'm still working on my crossovers I can usually get 25m, but I want be able to do them more consistently and comfortably.


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## x SF med (Sep 29, 2015)

THEJUGGERNAUT said:


> Swimming is my biggest weakness. I've been trying to hit the pool at least five times a week. I just PCS'ed to Lejeune. If anybody on the east coast wants to get together for some training, shoot me a message.



Here is a great thread with a TON of swimming prep advice.... ITC Prep Advice ...  the search function is your friend.


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## Sandman3 (Sep 29, 2015)

Drown yourself until you figure it out.  And then keep doing that.  No but seriously xSFmed hit it, myself and other have posted tons of tips for swimming but none of that matters, just get in the pool, swim hard and fast, work technique, do water confidence events, MCIWS cards, etc...  Never swim without a lifeguard present or at least a buddy, if you are swimming at a 10:40 slick right now with 3 months to go you should do what I did, pool twice a day if able, or at a minimum 2 hours, 4-5 days a week and you'll be in the top 10% of your peers.  The pool is what will send a majority of guys home in Phase 1.  Don't be the statistic.


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## Teufel (Sep 29, 2015)

buzzkill.0621 said:


> From what I've been told I'd work on speed for the 300.
> What I usually do is warm up slick doing a few laps of breast then side stroke on each side, followed by some crossovers to build confidence and breath holding ability.
> After my warm up I'll either do the 300m slick or in cammies just depending on how froggy I'm feeling followed by a strip swim doing around 200m per item stripped
> trying to keep around the same average time.
> ...



You only do a 300m swim at A&S?


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## THEJUGGERNAUT (Sep 29, 2015)

Thank you, gentlemen.


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## Sandman3 (Sep 29, 2015)

Teufel said:


> You only do a 300m swim at A&S?



It's the benchmark swim test for Phase 1.  There is certainly more pool work throughout.


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## Teufel (Sep 29, 2015)

Sandman3 said:


> It's the benchmark swim test for Phase 1.  There is certainly more pool work throughout.



No doubt.  I was surprised since Recon, NSW and AFSOC use the 500m as their benchmark.  I thought it used to be 500m at A&S as well but my information is dated.


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## Sandman3 (Sep 29, 2015)

Teufel said:


> No doubt.  I was surprised since Recon, NSW and AFSOC use the 500m as their benchmark.  I thought it used to be 500m at A&S as well but my information is dated.



It very well could move there.  I think it hasn't though because that's what we use for students in ITC, 500m that is.


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## Teufel (Sep 29, 2015)

Sandman3 said:


> It very well could move there.  I think it hasn't though because that's what we use for students in ITC, 500m that is.



That makes sense.


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## Knox16 (Oct 1, 2015)

Hey guys. Here's an update on my times.

300m in Cammies (7:54)
8 mile ruck w/ 47.5lb pack +camel back, 2 canteens, and 8lb pvc pipe. (1:24:00)
Still running a 300 pft. 
Need to focus on treading water, and running more miles a week. 
Ive been doing yoga as well to help with flexibilty and recovery. Try looking into ROMWOD, I highly recommend it. 
Keep training hard boys!


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## buzzkill.0621 (Oct 2, 2015)

Where'd you get ahold of tiger's blood to help you get those stats??


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## Hillclimb (Oct 2, 2015)

Check the MARSOC mentor section for a new swim guide.


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## Knox16 (Oct 3, 2015)

Just did a 10 mile ruck today got 1:47:00.


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## x SF med (Oct 4, 2015)

Knox16 said:


> Just did a 10 mile ruck today got 1:47:00.



What kind of terrain?  What weight?  What equipment?  That's averaging 10 min miles, just exactly what you stated you were doing at 8 miles. that rate puts you at just 2 hours for a 12 miler...  even Bob Howard was at 2.5 hours for a 12 miler with battle rattle and a 55 lb ruck...  You are either a monster or you are stretching the truth here.  

Sounds like you need to add in some hills and off road terrain to include ankle deep sand.


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## Sandman3 (Oct 4, 2015)

x SF med said:


> What kind of terrain?  What weight?  What equipment?  That's averaging 10 min miles, just exactly what you stated you were doing at 8 miles. that rate puts you at just 2 hours for a 12 miler...  even Bob Howard was at 2.5 hours for a 12 miler with battle rattle and a 55 lb ruck...  You are either a monster or you are stretching the truth here.
> 
> Sounds like you need to add in some hills and off road terrain to include ankle deep sand.



I mean I don't know if he's telling the truth but it's definitely possible.  We had a couple guys who ran a 10-miler, 50# ruck, battle rattle and rifle at 1:30.


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## MOTOMETO (Oct 4, 2015)

I know at least one guy finished under 1:50 on the twelve miler. A bunch more under two hours.


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## Knox16 (Oct 4, 2015)

x SF med said:


> What kind of terrain?  What weight?  What equipment?  That's averaging 10 min miles, just exactly what you stated you were doing at 8 miles. that rate puts you at just 2 hours for a 12 miler...  even Bob Howard was at 2.5 hours for a 12 miler with battle rattle and a 55 lb ruck...  You are either a monster or you are stretching the truth here.
> 
> Sounds like you need to add in some hills and off road terrain to include ankle deep sand.


I am using a 47.5lb alice pack then I add 2 full canteens and a full camelback. And then my 8lb pvc pipe thats filled with sand. Then obviously run in full Cammies and boots. And the terrain has some inclines but nothing serious. I run on camp lejeune so its pretty flat.


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## x SF med (Oct 4, 2015)

Sandman3 said:


> I mean I don't know if he's telling the truth but it's definitely possible.  We had a couple guys who ran a 10-miler, 50# ruck, battle rattle and rifle at 1:30.





MOTOMETO said:


> I know at least one guy finished under 1:50 on the twelve miler. A bunch more under two hours.



asking for injury running with that weight.... just saying.


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## buzzkill.0621 (Nov 20, 2015)

Just wanted to give a heads up that I will not be attending A&S 16-1
It's not because I'm backing out it's because of work obligations.
Good luck to all that attend. I'll be hopping on the 16-3 class.


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## The Hate Ape (Nov 20, 2015)

Knox16 said:


> I am using a 47.5lb alice pack then I add 2 full canteens and a full camelback. And then my 8lb pvc pipe thats filled with sand. Then obviously run in full Cammies and boots. And the terrain has some inclines but nothing serious. I run on camp lejeune so its pretty flat.



Don't worry about it Knox, the Troll was just surprised by all the monsters in our good corps! I didn't break the two hour mark myself but I was under 2.5 but can confirm that there are a handful of dudes beating the Bob Howard time mentioned - every cycle...


Good work and good luck to all.


H/A


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## Frankeasy (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm slotted to go to A&S 16-1, and I'm finishing the last 3-weeks of the 10-week guide now. I just read the stats from Knox16 and that's freakin' impressive! I'm not quite at that level, but I'll list my stats too to keep this fun:

300m swim in cammies: 9:44 (I don't know how you crushed me by a whole minute plus...)
Crunches-100
PU-18-20
3-mile run- 19:00-19:15
I'm rucking w/ an ALICE pack. 55# of sand bags, no water or make-shift rifle either (boots/cammies though)
8 mile was in 1:16:36 (9:37 per mile) and that ruck is "runtastic" official LOL (the app)

On a serious note, the 12-mile 1:47:00 record time boasts a per mile rate of 8:57... That's my "moon" if you will. I'm shooting for it. I have some ruck running questions if anyone has first-hand experience of ruck running at very high rates and would care to share some knowledge. My pack is evenly distributed. It is fastened tightly around my waist and shoulders. I lean forward and run, heel-to-toe striking movement, using my legs to absorb as much vertical jarring as possible. I keep my body level using my legs to absorb the impact so my pack doesn't bounce up and down. Likewise, I use my core to minimize the lateral rotation of the pack. I do not bring/drink water during the entirety of the ruck. During the 8-mile, I walked twice for 2 minutes each time: first at 58:00 minutes (for 2mins) then again at 1:08:00 minutes (for 2mins). The second walk of 2mins was not planned, purely calf and hip flexor exhaustion. I probably could have pushed, but didn't want to risk an injury during training. The elevation variation a total of 164ft up and 164ft down (according to the app)

Suggestions?


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## nateadkins11 (Dec 1, 2015)

Frankeasy said:


> .....I do not bring/drink water during the entirety of the ruck...
> 
> Suggestions?



Your ruck time is very impressive but holy shit.... Drink water!! The last thing you want is medical issues during assessment and selection. You should be in-taking somewhere around 28-48oz, possibly more, of water/sport drink per hour during a ruck, or some combination of the two. You want to consume as much fluid as you're losing, everyone has a different sweat rate. You need to maintain your blood sugar with some sort of carbohydrate, replenish electrolytes, and *maintain hydration*!

"Even the slightest amount of dehydration compromises cardiovascular function and places the athlete at risk of heat-related injury – particularly if conditions of prolonged excess heat prevail throughout the event. For every litre of water lost through sweat, the heart rate elevates to about eight extra beats per minute, cardiac output declines by one litre per minute (Gonsalez-Alonso et al., 1994) and core temperature rises by 0.3o C. Studies have shown that dehydration also increases levels of perceived exertion. (Montain & Coyle, 1992)"

Also, I *highly *recommend finding something to mimic a rifle in your hands during your ruck training. Although it may only be 8-10 lbs, it makes a big difference over the course of 8-12 miles.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 1, 2015)

Frankeasy said:


> I'm rucking w/ an ALICE pack. 55# of sand bags, no water or make-shift rifle either (boots/cammies though)



I cannot speak to A&S, but I can speak to rucking.  @nateadkins11 already covered the water and hydration issue, but please...consider losing the sandbags.  Moving with 55 pounds of gear on your back is very different than moving with 55 pounds of sand (which simply pulls straight down your back).  If you need to make weight, add a few 10 pounders with all the gear (but keep it centered) - or carry more water in your pack, 1 gallon weighs about 8 pounds.


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## Frankeasy (Dec 1, 2015)

nateadkins11 said:


> Your ruck time is very impressive but holy shit.... Drink water!! The last thing you want is medical issues during assessment and selection. You should be in-taking somewhere around 28-48oz, possibly more, of water/sport drink per hour during a ruck, or some combination of the two. You want to consume as much fluid as you're losing, everyone has a different sweat rate. You need to maintain your blood sugar with some sort of carbohydrate, replenish electrolytes, and *maintain hydration*!
> 
> "Even the slightest amount of dehydration compromises cardiovascular function and places the athlete at risk of heat-related injury – particularly if conditions of prolonged excess heat prevail throughout the event. For every litre of water lost through sweat, the heart rate elevates to about eight extra beats per minute, cardiac output declines by one litre per minute (Gonsalez-Alonso et al., 1994) and core temperature rises by 0.3o C. Studies have shown that dehydration also increases levels of perceived exertion. (Montain & Coyle, 1992)"
> 
> Also, I *highly *recommend finding something to mimic a rifle in your hands during your ruck training. Although it may only be 8-10 lbs, it makes a big difference over the course of 8-12 miles.


Thanks for the tips @nateadkins11 . I'll surely drink water/sports drink throughout (I'm going to shoot for a canteen, 32oz, per hour for a trial amount). Additionally, thank you for the quoted info. It's refreshing to have a forum member actually cite research in their posts.
Likewise, I'll figure out a suitable rifle substitute as I'm exercising in a non-military area. I'll let you know how these trials go.


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## Frankeasy (Dec 1, 2015)

Ooh-Rah said:


> I cannot speak to A&S, but I can speak to rucking.  @nateadkins11 already covered the water and hydration issue, but please...consider losing the sandbags.  Moving with 55 pounds of gear on your back is very different than moving with 55 pounds of sand (which simply pulls straight down your back).  If you need to make weight, add a few 10 pounders with all the gear (but keep it centered) - or carry more water in your pack, 1 gallon weighs about 8 pounds.


Thank you for the "dispersion" idea. I'll wrap up some extra boots and other miscellaneous items in towels and give it a go. Definitely going to add water, as @nateadkins11 mentioned, to supplement the gear for weight purposes as well. Surely a combination of proper hydration and adequate weight distribution as you've advised will ensure a bit more longevity as the weeks and months pass, but my eye is on the "moon"... So I'm also excited to see what kind of impact these factors will have on my pace.

Thanks gents. I'll keep you posted.


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## x SF med (Dec 1, 2015)

Always pack your ruck with the gear you'll have with you,  it will allow you to know how a loaded ruck weighs/acts/moves, and it gives you practice in packing and unpacking your gear - the same way every time so you know where each item lives in your ruck.


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## Frankeasy (Dec 3, 2015)

@nateadkins11 @Ooh-Rah  9-mile ruck today. Repacked the ruck; it's full to the brim and balanced; only 8lbs of sand. Feels a little better on the back. Ruck weight dry is 48#. Had about 2lbs of water and I carried an 8lb dumbbell as my makeshift rifle. Walked for two minutes at the 3-mile mark and 6-mile mark, where I consumed 1/2 of my container of sports drink at 3-miles then the other half at 6-miles.

My pace finished out about the same, it was 9:40 per mile this time. However: 1) I didn't feel like total shit in the last couple miles like I did during the 7-mile and 8-mile rucks. 2) I _felt_ the energy hit me about 1.5 miles after I consumed sports drink at the 3-mile mark. 3) The simulated rifle (8lb dumbbell) proved slightly awkward, but with another practice or two I'll have the swing of it. 4) I got held up at 3 traffic intersections for an estimated 45-60 seconds total.

All said, the pack feels better and I feel like I can ruck faster for longer. In a few weeks I should be able to shave a few seconds off of my per mile pace. *I'm considering nixing the "planned" walking for two minutes and trying to push to see how long I can maintain my trot, in an effort of course to have a better pace in the end. Thoughts/suggestions?*
My 8-mile ruck I didn't stop until I absolutely had to. The 9-mile I planned a stop every 3 miles. The splits from the two are below:
Distance  8-mile ruck  9-mile ruck
0-1 mile    8:36----------8:38
1-2 miles  8:58----------9:14
2-3 miles  9:34----------9:34
3-4 miles  9:36----------11:00 (traffic stop)
4-5 miles  9:25----------9:30
5-6 miles  9:41----------10:47 (traffic stop)
6-7 miles 10:39---------9:36
7-8 miles 11:04---------9:43
8-9 miles N/A----------9:12


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## x SF med (Dec 4, 2015)

Frankeasy said:


> @nateadkins11 @Ooh-Rah  9-mile ruck today. Repacked the ruck; it's full to the brim and balanced; only 8lbs of sand. Feels a little better on the back. Ruck weight dry is 48#. Had about 2lbs of water and I carried an 8lb dumbbell as my makeshift rifle. Walked for two minutes at the 3-mile mark and 6-mile mark, where I consumed 1/2 of my container of sports drink at 3-miles then the other half at 6-miles.
> 
> My pace finished out about the same, it was 9:40 per mile this time. However: 1) I didn't feel like total shit in the last couple miles like I did during the 7-mile and 8-mile rucks. 2) I _felt_ the energy hit me about 1.5 miles after I consumed sports drink at the 3-mile mark. 3) The simulated rifle (8lb dumbbell) proved slightly awkward, but with another practice or two I'll have the swing of it. 4) I got held up at 3 traffic intersections for an estimated 45-60 seconds total.
> 
> ...




It's all about pace, stride and load balance...  rucking is unnatural...  use a weighted stick or pipe instead of a barbell.... the length is more approximate of the rifle, and you can use it to counter/mitigate bobbing in your stride.  Part of rucking is using you whole body to move, hip thrusting on the swing side and counterbalancing with shoulders and rifle.  Once the gait is down, work on pace and stride length... when you get it all down, you will probably be moving faster than your current trotting/shuffling efforts.  This is all from experience under the big green tick...  many miles and days of movement under the life sucking piece of nylon filled with your belongings and more... 

See if getting superfeet insoles will help too, they support your foot/arch better than 99% of the insoles out there.


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## LostInADraw (Dec 12, 2015)

Hey guys I've been following this thread and I will also be attending 16-1. Here is an update on my times.
-300m swim (cammies) 6:58. Avg 7:10
-500m swim (slick) 9:21
-18-20 dead hang PU 
-3 mile run 18:50-19:30
-5 mile run 33:02
-6 mile ruck 56:50 (full cammies 45# before water)
I've done longer rucks in the past but I've only recorded the last couple.


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## Frankeasy (Dec 13, 2015)

@NKoolaidman what swim stroke are you using for the swim? I'm interested b/c I've been trying to get my 300m swim in cammies down a bit and the lowest I've seemed to get it is 9:15, which I believe is at least average, but that time is very fast in cammies.

Great ruck times! If I can recommend, definitely get a couple long rucks in before A&S (10-12mi) as they are certainly a game changer.


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## THEJUGGERNAUT (Dec 15, 2015)

Looking good gents,

I took the last two weeks off more or less, in order to let some nagging injuries heal up. It was necessary, but I feel a little sluggish getting back into it. Here's what my times look like as of two weeks ago.

3  mile: 17:25-18:15
Pull-ups: 18(I'm working on them, doing the Armstrong program until we check in)
Crunches: 100
300m swim: 9:43 in cammies(My number one priority is improving in the water)
8mile ruck: 1:13( I haven't done anything longer yet, but I plan on doing a 10 this week and a 12 before check in)

My plan right now is to train hard for next three weeks. Then one week out stretch, sleep, and do some slow jogging/swimming.


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## Frankeasy (Dec 21, 2015)

Newest Figures

Crunches-100 (same)
PU-18 (same)
3-mile run- 19:00 (same)
300m swim in cammies: 8:35 (down from 9:15)
12-mile ruck: 2:06:40 (about 10:35 per mile)---Pack is now 48#, almost a full camelback, and 8# PVC in hand, ran the entirety w/o walking. I found that the biggest difference-maker between my previous rucks and this was the stride. For the 12-mile ruck, I shortened my stride to a more comfortable length and stepped faster (lower gear/higher RPMs). I didn't feel any quad/hamstring/calf fatigue until nearly 8-miles at that rate. Same with shoulder/pec soreness; I felt almost no soreness there until 9-10 miles. (Shorter stride=More stability --> More Stability=Less Ruck Bouncing --> Less Ruck Bouncing=GOOD FOR ALL)

My last 3 weeks I've reserved for improving pull-ups and jogging more, and for longer distances, as well as more water confidence drills. I managed to swim about 40m underwater. I'm working to get to 50m+ before check-in.

*QUESTION*
I'm reading Level Zero Hero (great so far), reaching out to fellow 16-01 selectees to network prior to check-in & just recently took a day to go to Lejeune and run through a land nav course. Based on what I've said, any further suggestions from you veterans out there? I've received many great words of wisdom on this forum from a few of you already (@nateadkins11 @Ooh-Rah @x SF med). Thank you again for that.


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## steffensx16 (Jan 10, 2016)

All packed up and ready for training. Flying out from Hawaii Monday and will be checking in Tuesday afternoon.

Safe travels everyone.


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## THEJUGGERNAUT (Jan 10, 2016)

See you there brother. Safe travels.


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