# Another Home Defense Thread



## Kurt V (Jan 30, 2008)

But with a twist. Was having a discussion with some friends on which pistol you keep at the bed side. One guy said he had a .357 with 158gr. JHPs in it. he said he did worry about the neighbors, but would be sure to yell, "FORE!" before letting one fly.

Another guy stated that was a fantastic defensive load, but with a couple of drawbacks to consider. Muzzle flash and noise. His older brother used to keep this load in his Python for the same purpose. Then one day at the indoor range they were the only two shooting. So he turned the lights off, had him take his ear muffs off, and then had him light one off. That one round changed his mind about using such a high pressure, high intensity load indoors in the dark. He was essentially deaf and blind for long enough for a second bad guy to do really bad things. Or the one he just missed. He stated
+P's reduce both muzzle flash and report very noticably, without much of a loss of effectiveness. 

That's where I like the .45 ACP and Colt; both are low pressure, low intensity rounds that don't bark and flash like the magnums. They make it easier to assess the situation after that first shot.


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## x SF med (Jan 30, 2008)

Glasser's, great home defense round - won't kill your neighbors, but a BG knows he's been stopped.


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## Crusader74 (Jan 30, 2008)

x SF med said:


> Glasser's, great home defense round - won't kill your neighbors, but a BG knows he's been stopped.



Get a .22 and shoot the BG between the eyes;)


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## Marauder06 (Jan 30, 2008)

... and hope it doesn't bounce off.


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## Crusader74 (Jan 30, 2008)

Marauder06 said:


> ... and hope it doesn't bounce off.




LMAO!


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## HeloMedic1171 (Jan 30, 2008)

Kurt V said:


> That's where I like the .45 ACP...



I agree.  I don't like the fact that when I fire a magnum round it  makes all the noise, wakes up the whole house 5 blocks away and makes everyone within 50 ft incoherent and sensory-deprived.  it'll stop the BG....  but it's his partner I'm concerned about getting the best of me.  one of my ex-girlfriends, (now one of my best friends) bought an SW9C a while back because when she was in college at that time, one of her friends got raped twice by the same guy, the second time being in her own home.  so for security's sake, she picked it up.  she liked the idea that all she had to do was pull the trigger.  (no kids, lived alone, didn't party at her house, so it wasn't much of an issue being locked and loaded 24/7)  I didn't like the idea that a 9mm round doesn't really have the power behind it that a .40 or .45 round would.  I'm in love with the SA XD45.  I'll be picking one up next month.  downside - can't keep it in the barracks   but I'll be applying for a concealed permit so I can keep it on me when I'm off-post.  

short story long - x2 on the .45 ACP


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## WillBrink (Jan 30, 2008)

Kurt V said:


> But with a twist. Was having a discussion with some friends on which pistol you keep at the bed side. One guy said he had a .357 with 158gr. JHPs in it. he said he did worry about the neighbors, but would be sure to yell, "FORE!" before letting one fly.
> 
> Another guy stated that was a fantastic defensive load, but with a couple of drawbacks to consider. Muzzle flash and noise. His older brother used to keep this load in his Python for the same purpose. Then one day at the indoor range they were the only two shooting. So he turned the lights off, had him take his ear muffs off, and then had him light one off. That one round changed his mind about using such a high pressure, high intensity load indoors in the dark. He was essentially deaf and blind for long enough for a second bad guy to do really bad things. Or the one he just missed. He stated
> +P's reduce both muzzle flash and report very noticably, without much of a loss of effectiveness.
> ...



Works for me....:)


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## Viper1 (Jul 7, 2008)

anyone have any experience with the Beretta .380 auto?  

Right now for home defense I have a 12 guage double barrel and a Marlin Model 90 12 guage OU (old shotgun).  Got burned buying a not-so-good rossi .357 6 shooter which I promptly sending back.


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Jul 7, 2008)

Best way to handle Home Defence is a working cell phone and a .410 shotgun.  BG is in the house, call 911 and leave the phone on the bed.  Yell at the top of your lungs "I have called the police. I have a gun.  Leave or I will shoot." Then rack a round into the shotgun.


With a .410 you can still put the BG down, but you don’t have to worry about over penetration of your walls and family members/neighbors.  You can always have a .40 as backup.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 7, 2008)

SgtUSMC8541 said:


> Best way to handle Home Defence is a working cell phone and a .410 shotgun.  BG is in the house, call 911 and leave the phone on the bed.  Yell at the top of your lungs "I have called the police. I have a gun.  Leave or I will shoot." Then rack a round into the shotgun.
> 
> 
> With a .410 you can still put the BG down, but you don’t have to worry about over penetration of your walls and family members/neighbors.  You can always have a .40 as backup.



I agree 100% 

You can also use a 12g with bird shot... But if you have a .410 that would be the way to go! Good post!


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Jul 7, 2008)

SgtUSMC8541 said:


> Best way to handle Home Defence is a working cell phone and a .410 shotgun. BG is in the house, call 911 and leave the phone on the bed. Yell at the top of your lungs "I have called the police. I have a gun. Leave or I will shoot." Then rack a round into the shotgun.
> 
> 
> With a .410 you can still put the BG down, but you don’t have to worry about over penetration of your walls and family members/neighbors. You can always have a .40 as backup.


 



The main reasons why this is the best tactic for most, not for all, but most is this:

A .410 will get the job done and IF you get brought to court, you don’t look like a Dirty Harry wanna be looking to blow his head clean off. 
You don’t have to worry about over penetration and the safety of your family/pets/neighbors. 
The recoil of a .410 is low enough that there is quick target reacquisition for even a petite woman.
There is almost nothing in the world more intimidating that the sound of a shotgun being racked.
With the phone, IF you get brought to court, you will have a great 911 tape recording of you informing the BG that the Police have been called, you are armed and you have a firearm you are willing to use.
With a shotgun, it is easier for those not fully trained in pistols to use it. (ie wife, older kids….etc.) and still hit center mass.
You can buy a shotgun without a pistol or CCW permit. 
Now for those who want something bigger because they were/are a big bad cop, or Military trained killer (Ie Marine Sniper!;)) I still recommend the same thing. If you really NEED something bigger then you have some very big issues in your life and you need to look into a safe room for your house. 



Some other small tips to keep the BG from entering your house, and choosing to hit your neighbors;

Use a metal frame on your door ways. Exterior and then master bedroom.
Put a dead bolt lock on your bedroom door.
If your back door or front door has a window in it; use a dead bolt that needs a key on both sides. This will stop someone from breaking a small window and reaching though to unlock the door.
On your main entrance and exit doors as well as bed rooms, do not use the cheap doors. Use full solid wood. (With the metal frames this will slow a BG down when trying to enter) 
For a modified “safe room” you could use a bed room or even a walk in closet. Needs to have a cell phone, (incase lines to house are cut) flashlights, possible fire arm, fire extinguisher, and a basic first aid kit. (Should have a GSW kit in it as well) Again, a dead bolt with key on both sides. (neve know if you need to lock someone in as oposed to just out.)
Lighting! Lighting! Lighting! If you can mount lights not on your house, but facing the house, you will remove the shadows agains the house. 
Keep windows clear of bushes etc. Hiden from the road.
Even if you dont have one, get some security alarm stickers for your windows, doors or a sign for the yard. All you really want to do is convice the BG he wants to rob your neighbor and not you.
If you have a firearms ANYWHERE in your home, you should always have a GSW kit near by.

Just a few tips…….. There are a lot more.... but I do have to do some work at my job. :eek:


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## HoosierAnnie (Jul 7, 2008)

SgtUSMC8541 said:


> There is almost nothing in the world more intimidating that the sound of a shotgun being racked



AMEN!!  Hence the 20g in my bedroom closet.


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## LibraryLady (Jul 7, 2008)

Another tip I've heard many a time is if you don't have a big dog, create the appearance you do have one.  Get a friend who has a big dog to give you some old toys, water/food dishes, house, blankets/beds etc.  Or buy new and beat them up with hammers, pliers, etc.

And if you do have a dog, make every effort to have all windows and doors behind the fence line of the house, so the dog has full access when in the yard.  If you've got the dog confined to the back yard, the robber/thief will just use the front because they know the dog is in the back yard and can't reach them.

Same, same with leaving the dog outside all day when you're gone.  Except for the very young pups or old coots with bladder issues, a dog can be trained to hold it's bladder all day while you're at work.  If the scope out of your place shows the dog inside, they'll look for an easier place to ransack.

LL


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## 8'Duece (Jul 7, 2008)

I keep a 12 gauge semi autoloader because I don't own a .410.


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## surgicalcric (Jul 7, 2008)

HMdepperNavy said:
			
		

> In reality though...



You may want to consider reading a bit more and posting a bit less about topics you have little, to no experience in.      

Conjecture isnt considered experience and your insight into this subject is more than lacking.

Crip


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## 8'Duece (Jul 8, 2008)

HMdepperNavy said:
			
		

> Studies show that a majority of cases where a potential victim uses a gun to defend themselves, the criminal(s) will flee the scene before a shot is ever fired.  Low life criminals are not trained gun fighters.  They may have the 'guts' to risk prison, but a majority will not have the guts to confront an armed citizen, let alone get into a gun fight.  Granted, if a criminal was somehow cornered, then its likely there will be shots exchanged.
> 
> http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
> 
> ...


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## Balls (Jul 8, 2008)

*HMdepperNavy*, 


     Stop digging. Throw down the shovel. You've been down this road before on a similar site. :doh:

:2c:

ETA: Not picking on you bud. Your full of piss and vinegar and thats cool. Read Sun Tzu's Art of War. Many of the principles will apply here and elsewhere.    Train Harder. Post Less.


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## EATIII (Jul 8, 2008)

HMdepperNavy said:
			
		

> Studies show that a majority of cases where a potential victim uses a gun to defend themselves, the criminal(s) will flee the scene before a shot is ever fired.  Low life criminals are not trained gun fighters.  They may have the 'guts' to risk prison, but a majority will not have the guts to confront an armed citizen, let alone get into a gun fight.  Granted, if a criminal was somehow cornered, then its likely there will be shots exchanged.
> 
> http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk&feature=related



My friend, studies are like statistics, they can be swayed wherever you want them to go:2c:


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Jul 8, 2008)

HMdepperNavy said:
			
		

> I have never had to use my guns to defend my home or property, but studies do show that a majority of cases where a potential victim uses a gun to defend themselves, the criminal(s) will flee the scene before a shot is ever fired.  Low life criminals are not trained gun fighters.  They may have the 'guts' to risk prison, but a majority will not have the guts to confront an armed citizen, let alone get into a gun fight.  Granted, if a criminal was somehow cornered, then its likely there will be shots exchanged.
> 
> http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk&feature=related



Your distribution of knowledge or in many cases lack of knowledge is really starting to annoy the shit out of me. Again you are posting a opinionated knowledge, with out first hand experience or supporting data to back up your claim “most bad guys will run of at the sight or sound of a firearm”…

Surgicalcric, gave you some good advice to stop posting so much and start reading! I agree with his advice and hope you choose to start following it.

Now reality is that you have zero idea what the bad guy will do, that is why you should prepare for any possible scenario. Hints SgtUSMC8541 great advice he has posted on this topic!

My grandfather suffered a home invasion, back in 2005. He was armed with a empty shotgun (he believed at the time, it was better to have it unloaded) he racked the action, and screamed at the bad guy. The bad guys push my grandfather over, and stole his wallet off of his dresser. As my 79-year-old (at the time, now 82) grand father struggled to stop this bad guy, he was struck several times in the face and chest.

The bad guy was never caught and my grand father now sleeps with a loaded 12g shotgun next to his bed. He has reinforced his doors, much like SgtUSMC8541 described and also installed an alarm system.

Although this is not the “reality” of most home invasions, this was the reality for my grandfather…


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## AWP (Jul 8, 2008)

One of the problems I have with "higher education" is that any high school or college class I've taken going back to my own days of high school in 89 focused around finding a topic and writing to support that topic, doing research to support that topic. I've taken a metric "shit ton" of classes thanks to changing my major several times but the format never changed: Find a topic, research to support that topic, write a paper.

What is lost then is the ability to take two sides of an argument and weigh them against each other. We aren't learning how to make a judgement call or a balanced decision, we're learning how to make a single case regardless of the evidence stating otherwise.

Life isn't a debate club, she is a cruel, uncompromising mistress and if you don't see both sides of the coin then you are only operating at 50%.

Some food for thought for some folks out there that may need to broaden their horizons...


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## SgtUSMC8541 (Jul 8, 2008)

HMdepperNavy said:
			
		

> My voice and writing style does come off arrogant at times, but its not always intentional.


 


Then this is something to work on.  A simple statement voiced as a question is completely different from voiced as fact.  No need to beat a dead horse since others have responded to this.  You have been talked to, so now suck it up and drive on.


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## skeeter (Jul 10, 2008)

I talked about this with the gunsmith on my shooting team. He told me that he has a loaded 870 on his side and his wife has an 1100 on hers, both loaded with 00. Sounded good to me.


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