# SF Soldiers KIA in Niger



## Gunz (Oct 5, 2017)

Jesus. Apparently 3rd Grp. RIP Warriors. Prayers out for the wounded.

3 Special Forces Troops Killed and 2 Are Wounded in an Ambush in Niger


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## Kaldak (Oct 5, 2017)

Fuck.

Rest in peace men. Prayers to the families and loved ones. Godspeed on the recovery of the wounded.


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## Red Flag 1 (Oct 5, 2017)

Rest In God's Own Peace, Warriors.

Prayers out for the wounded and all touched by this loss.


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## Frank S. (Oct 5, 2017)

Rest in peace.


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## policemedic (Oct 5, 2017)

RIP.


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## Fl_Ag (Oct 5, 2017)

Been thinking about this all day - reached out to my SF mentor first thing this morning after seeing the headline. The two wounded are expected to recover.

Rest in peace.


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## trin (Oct 5, 2017)

Praying for the Soldiers and their families.


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## RackMaster (Oct 5, 2017)

RIP.


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## Andoni (Oct 5, 2017)

Rest in Peace.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 5, 2017)

Damn.


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## Blizzard (Oct 5, 2017)

Godspeed.


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## Florida173 (Oct 5, 2017)

Shitty situation. 

RIP


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 5, 2017)

RIP


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## CDG (Oct 5, 2017)

RIP Warriors.


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## Fl_Ag (Oct 6, 2017)

Identified today: US troops killed in Niger identified as decorated Green Berets


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## Teufel (Oct 6, 2017)

Rest easy warriors. I will see you on fiddlers green. Members, this is a reminder that our enemies define our battlefields, not CENTCOM. Keep your eyes open and your powder dry.


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## Kraut783 (Oct 6, 2017)

Rest in Peace Men


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## Grunt (Oct 6, 2017)

Rest in Peace, Warriors and thank you for your service!

My sincerest condolences to their families and teammates.

You will NOT be forgotten....


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## Florida173 (Oct 7, 2017)

They recovered the remains of the MIA finally. Long couple days.

Fourth Special Forces soldier KIA in Niger, recovered from behind enemy lines

Edit: Found an article.


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## Gunz (Oct 10, 2017)

AQIM needs to suffer for this. I trust SOCOM will dedicate resources to avenge the deaths of these brave men. May retaliation be swift, brutal and uncompromising.


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## Florida173 (Oct 10, 2017)

@Ocoka , manage your expectations


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## Centermass (Oct 10, 2017)

Rest Easy Brothers.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 24, 2017)

This story seems to get stranger and stranger every time I see an update. 

US troops in Niger were ambushed by 50 terrorists | Daily Mail Online

The four American special forces killed fighting in Niger were ambushed by 50 ISIS terrorists after they were stalled by a village elder, a survivor of the attack has revealed. 

The group of 12 American forces had accompanied 30 Nigerien forces to an area about 85 kilometers north of the capital Niamey on a routine reconnaissance mission on October 3, when a dramatic new order came through to kill or capture a top ISIS target, officials told ABC News.


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## RackMaster (Oct 24, 2017)

Sounds like a setup to me.


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## DA SWO (Oct 24, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> This story seems to get stranger and stranger every time I see an update.
> 
> US troops in Niger were ambushed by 50 terrorists | Daily Mail Online
> 
> ...


If true, then the elder needs to be suicided.


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## Kev in Phx (Oct 25, 2017)

I have a much less serious question. I was in 5th Group from 90-92, so I've been out for over 25 yrs now, but I was wondering why one of the men, Sgt. Johnson I believe, is wearing a maroon beret with a 3rd Group flash in his photo?


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## TLDR20 (Oct 25, 2017)

Kev in Phx said:


> I have a much less serious question. I was in 5th Group from 90-92, so I've been out for over 25 yrs now, but I was wondering why one of the men, Sgt. Johnson I believe, is wearing a maroon beret with a 3rd Group flash in his photo?



Because he is a support guy. He was not 18 series.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 25, 2017)

Kev in Phx said:


> I have a much less serious question. I was in 5th Group from 90-92, so I've been out for over 25 yrs now, but I was wondering why one of the men, Sgt. Johnson I believe, is wearing a maroon beret with a 3rd Group flash in his photo?



@Kev in Phx -

Per site rules, your first post should be an intro post.  Please make that your next post.

Thank you.


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## Kev in Phx (Oct 25, 2017)

That's kinda what I thought. Waaaayyy back when I was in, everyone assigned to a Group wore a green beret. Rangers had black berets, and mostly 82nd wore maroon. Then I saw that they changed the Rangers from black to tan and gave everyone else black berets. That was really weird for me, it looked to me as is everyone was all a of a sudden in a Ranger Batt.! Now, was his beret maroon because he was abn., and would it have been black if he wasn't abn quailified?


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## Kev in Phx (Oct 25, 2017)

opps! sorry about the etiquette breach!


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## Gunz (Oct 25, 2017)

DA SWO said:


> If true, then the elder needs to be suicided.




Even trying to manage my expectations, yes, he needs to fucking die.


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## Il Duce (Oct 25, 2017)

I thought this was a solid write-up on SGT Johnson.  It's always easy to focus on the high-profile SOF guys, but support plays a critical role.  This SGT seems to have been a great representative of the support community.  A mechanic who came from nothing, trying to be a good Soldier and father.  I think he's representative of a good portion of the force who aren't as represented in the branding around veterans in media - and I include veteran media in that.  RIP.

A Sergeant’s Last Mission: Soldiering, Barbering and Missing His Family at Home


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## TLDR20 (Oct 25, 2017)

Kev in Phx said:


> That's kinda what I thought. Waaaayyy back when I was in, everyone assigned to a Group wore a green beret. Rangers had black berets, and mostly 82nd wore maroon. Then I saw that they changed the Rangers from black to tan and gave everyone else black berets. That was really weird for me, it looked to me as is everyone was all a of a sudden in a Ranger Batt.! Now, was his beret maroon because he was abn., and would it have been black if he wasn't abn quailified?



He is assigned to an airborne unit. I don’t know if there are any leg guys in group. Def not in his role. 

I thought the army did away with black berets...


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## Marauder06 (Oct 25, 2017)

Kev in Phx said:


> That's kinda what I thought. Waaaayyy back when I was in, everyone assigned to a Group wore a green beret. Rangers had black berets, and mostly 82nd wore maroon. Then I saw that they changed the Rangers from black to tan and gave everyone else black berets. That was really weird for me, it looked to me as is everyone was all a of a sudden in a Ranger Batt.! Now, was his beret maroon because he was abn., and would it have been black if he wasn't abn quailified?



Unless something has changed recently, regardless of jump qualification status all of the enablers in Group are authorized to wear the maroon beret.  It's organizational wear, the only qualification is assignment to the unit.  Just like the SF Regimental Distinctive Unit Insignia.  

AFAIK that's the same in airborne units as well, unless the command has a more-restrictive policy.  My detachment sergeant in 5th Group's MI Det was non-Airborne-qualified, and I had several privates/PFCs join the unit before they went off to Airborne School.  All were authorized, and wore, the maroon beret.


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## Il Duce (Oct 25, 2017)

In all the official photos I've seen of SGT Johnson and the three Green Berets, all are wearing jump wings with flash - meaning they're in a unit on jump status.

The Army still has the black beret - but CDR's have wide discretion on when to wear it.  I believe most units only wear it with class Bs or Blues.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 27, 2017)

- UPDATE -

Questions about four U.S. deaths mount in Congress.

U.S. soldiers were separated from their unit in Niger ambush


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## CDG (Oct 27, 2017)

I wonder why they waited for an hour to call for air support.  It was a small force, ambushed, and they weren't expecting contact to begin with.


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## policemedic (Oct 27, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> In all the official photos I've seen of SGT Johnson and the three Green Berets, all are wearing jump wings with flash - meaning they're in a unit on jump status.
> 
> The Army still has the black beret - but CDR's have wide discretion on when to wear it.  I believe most units only wear it with class Bs or Blues.



Honestly, I always thought that a bit strange.  The uniform is the uniform, however it is defined.


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## Il Duce (Oct 27, 2017)

policemedic said:


> Honestly, I always thought that a bit strange.  The uniform is the uniform, however it is defined.



Beret is not great headgear for daily wear - zero sun protection, comfort, utility, etc.  However, I think it looks better in dress uniform than those weird brimmed hats that make you look like kazoo from the Flintstones (at least with Greens).


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## policemedic (Oct 27, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Beret is not great headgear for daily wear - zero sun protection, comfort, utility, etc.  However, I think it looks better in dress uniform than those weird brimmed hats that make you look like kazoo from the Flintstones (at least with Greens).



That sounds vaguely xenophobic, sir.


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## gray11b (Oct 27, 2017)

Make em pay SOCOM


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## Il Duce (Oct 27, 2017)

policemedic said:


> That sounds vaguely xenophobic, sir.



I'm tired of people calling me xenophobic just because I disagree with their policies - oh wait, that's bleed over from another thread...

But I mean, illegal alien with a superior intellect, technology, and a condescending manner yet seeming to pander to the working man?  Kazoo has got have a metaphorical connection somewhere...


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## Topkick (Oct 27, 2017)

Il Duce said:


> Beret is not great headgear for daily wear - zero sun protection, comfort, utility, etc.  However, I think it looks better in dress uniform than those weird brimmed hats that make you look like kazoo from the Flintstones (at least with Greens).



The beret sucks. It looks better than the cunt cap, except when knuckleheads can't form the beret correctly. Then it looks like a complete clusterfuck.

ETA: I am done ranting about the beret. I got off the thread topic.


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## Gunz (Oct 27, 2017)

CDG said:


> I wonder why they waited for an hour to call for air support.  It was a small force, ambushed, and they weren't expecting contact to begin with.




Could've been comm problems. And maybe in the confusion they didn't realize just how far up shit alley they actually were until things got really hairy really fast. What troubles me is that they split up. One element retreated and left the other. I'm wondering if the indigs panicked. (That's what it sounds like to me). If that happened, the SF advisors with that counterpart element would've had to move with them while attempting to steady them and rally them...and would've been drawn away from the four Americans in the village.


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 27, 2017)

So this story....ugh.

U.S. Forces in Niger Were Denied Armed Drone

I know that not everyone has subscription to WSJ; so I am posting most of it here.

U.S. military officials sought permission to send an armed drone near a patrol of Green Berets before a deadly ambush Oct. 4 in Niger, but the request was blocked, raising questions about whether those forces had adequate protection against the dangers of their mission.

New information shows the Green Beret team was part of a larger mission, one potentially more dangerous than initially described, and one believed to merit an armed drone. But the request was blocked in a chain of approval that snakes through the Pentagon, State Department and the Nigerien government, according to officials briefed on the events.

One focus of military investigations into what happened in Niger will be what a military official now says were two changes in the mission of the Green Beret team—from initially training Nigerien forces, to advising on a mission to capture or kill a wanted terrorist, to investigating the terrorist’s abandoned camp.

On Oct. 4, after the U.S.-Nigerien team had destroyed the camp, four Americans and five Nigerien soldiers were killed in a firefight with suspected Islamic State fighters, and two other Americans and as many as eight Nigeriens were wounded.

The ambush and the circumstances surrounding it have taken on political weight in Washington as the deadliest military clash for Americans since President Donald Trump took office. Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has pressed for more information, and a public spat broke out about condolence calls by Mr. Trump.

The drone request suggests that military officials were aware of a change in the security landscape in western Niger, where more than two dozen previous patrols had been conducted without incident. Intelligence indicated a low risk of enemy contact, and there had been no enemy attacks on U.S. forces there for the past year, according to officials investigating the incident.

The initial decision against the use of an armed drone reflects an effort by the U.S. mission in Niger to maintain a light footprint in the country amid local resistance to the deployment of armed aircraft—a challenge for officials also seeking to adequately support U.S. troops there.

After the firefight broke out on Oct. 4, some military officials also wanted an armed drone, but it is unclear if one was in the area and whether any request was made, according to a military official. An unarmed drone was dispatched, and French Mirage jet fighters arrived about an hour later, followed by French helicopters.

U.S. officials have repeatedly modified the timeline as facts trickle in.

The Green Beret patrol was one of two operating in the area at about the same time, Pentagon officials said. The second consisted of an elite commando team specializing in missions to track down wanted jihadists; both were involved at the time in a hunt for an associate of Adnan abu Walid al-Sahawi, the leader of Islamic State in the Greater Sahara, according to current and former officials briefed on the events.

The targeted militant was operating in the border region, moving between Niger and Mali, and the elite team was also operating on both sides of the border, officials said. The jihadist is an important figure in Islamic State in the Greater Sahara, an organization operating in the two countries, according to a person briefed on the investigation.

The Green Beret team’s role in Niger was initially to help train the country’s security forces. But then, before the October mission began, the group was asked to advise the Nigerien quick-reaction force that was to assist the elite commando unit on its mission to capture or kill the terrorist target, according to a military official.

That mission was scrubbed because weather conditions increased the risk for helicopter flight to the site where the jihadist was thought to be, the official said.

The commando unit then sought another U.S. team to check out what appeared to be an abandoned terror camp that the jihadist had used, according to current and former officials briefed on the events.

The Green Beret patrol, now available to be retasked, was sent to the camp, the officials said.

The patrol was made up mostly of Green Berets, with other soldiers attached. All were considered well trained, having gone through the comprehensive work-ups of the elite Special Forces, according to Pentagon records. But their experience levels varied, according to the records; at least one had never deployed and at least four hadn’t seen combat.

The team, along with 30 Nigerien troops, left the country’s capital, Niamey, the morning of Oct. 3.

The new mission, to find the abandoned camp and shelter, was considered relatively low-risk. An assessment showed there was little likelihood of an enemy attack, officials have said, after the wanted terrorist was known to have abandoned the camp.

Military investigators have been examining the official orders that led to the assignment. A key unanswered question is who formally changed the Green Beret-led team’s mission—the U.S. Africa Command, known as Africom, the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command, or another agency.

Investigators also are working to find out if there was adequate intelligence to evaluate the likelihood of enemy contact and whether the team was prepared for helping an elite commando team track and kill Mr. Sahawi’s associate.

Investigations into the ambush by military officials, aided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, are likely to take weeks, according to officials briefed on the inquiry.

Mr. Sahawi is considered a top target in the “tri-border” region of Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, according to European officials. The area is made up in large part of wildlife preserves, allowing militants, often in groups of just a few dozen, to move across borders, hide out and strike as needed.

The joint U.S.-Nigerien team relatively quickly located and arrived at the camp that had been abandoned by Mr. Sahawi’s lieutenant. The team, according to military reports, collected some information and destroyed the shelter they found, though military officials don’t know if it was a regular camp or had only been used once.

From there, late on Oct. 3, the team began the trek back to their base camp, according to a military official.

Based on the reports submitted by the Green Berets after they left the abandoned terrorist camp, the team hiked throughout the night of Oct. 3 to Oct. 4, never staying in one place for more than a couple of hours.

While on the route back to their camp, in the morning of Oct. 4, the Nigerien forces asked to stop at a village to get breakfast and refill their canteens.

When U.S. forces visit a village, it is standard procedure to meet with the elder, explain their broader mission and enlist a measure of support from the local population.

That meeting went longer than expected. At 10:40 a.m. local time, minutes after leaving the village, the troops were ambushed.

Investigators are probing the question of how the jihadists found the Green Berets, since intelligence hadn’t documented any militants operating in the area of the village.

The length of the village meeting has caused some military officials to question whether villagers tried to delay the Green Berets. But military officials said they now believe the village elder wasn’t involved.

Military officials don’t know if the fighters who ambushed the Green Beret-led team were affiliated with the terrorist being hunted by the elite team.

One official noted that the areas were far apart, and the Green Beret team had taken steps to avoid being tracked. Other officials believe he was likely responsible for the attack.

An hour into the fight, minutes after a request from the team for air support, the unarmed drone arrived, allowing more senior military commanders to watch the firefight.

The French Mirage jet fighters from an airfield in Niamey were underway within a half-hour and in the area 30 minutes later, the Pentagon said. French helicopters left from Mali, officials said.

During the fight, four soldiers became separated from the rest of the team. Those soldiers would be the Americans killed.

Late on the afternoon of Oct. 4, French helicopters evacuated two wounded U.S. soldiers. It wasn’t until that evening that the bodies of three of the four U.S. soldiers killed were evacuated.

The body of the fourth soldier, Sgt. La David Johnson, was still missing. He was found two days later by Nigerien forces.

Military officials declined to say why the initial request for an armed drone was made. The U.S. Africa Command, which is responsible for military operations for most of the continent, typically must request permission from the U.S. ambassador or the chief of mission at a U.S. embassy in a given country for any military operation, according to current and former officials briefed on the events.

If the ambassador blocks the mission, the decision can be appealed by military officials to the Pentagon.

That step typically requires a discussion between the secretaries of Defense and State. Military officials said top officers are reluctant to take disputes with an ambassador to the secretary of Defense, out of concern of sending a signal that the command isn’t able to work effectively with its diplomatic partners. No high-level discussion in advance of the Green Beret patrol that began Oct. 3 appears to have taken place.

State Department officials denied that their teams in Africa can block military requests for drone flights or strikes and said diplomats didn’t stop a request for an armed drone in Niger.

“The U.S. ambassador in Niger did not deny support or protection for military personnel involved in the October 4 ambush,” State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said. “The ambassador supported all efforts to ensure the safety of our military colleagues in the field.”

One of the officials briefed on the events said sensitivities in Niger concerning the use of armed drones have delayed their use. The two countries signed an agreement in 2013 allowing Washington to establish a drone base there. The $100 million base is set to be completed next year.


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## Gunz (Oct 28, 2017)

From NYT article above:

_"The initial decision against the use of an armed drone reflects an effort by the U.S. mission in Niger to maintain a light footprint in the country amid local resistance to the deployment of armed aircraft.."_

Mogadishu, Benghazi, now this. Fuck your light footprint, fuck your fear of escalation, fuck local resistance. There's a reason the locals don't want armed aircraft in the AO..._*because armed aircraft represent a threat to their goddam terrorist operations.*_


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## Ooh-Rah (Oct 29, 2017)

This story....sigh....

Green Beret died trying to save comrades in deadly ambush | Daily Mail Online

On Friday, a US official gave the fullest account yet of how the attack, which has been shrouded in secrecy and described murkily by US officials in Washington, played out. 

 They revealed that; 

Sgt. Johnson was in an armed pick-up truck that was in front of the vehicle carrying the other three men when the attack began 
He and others in the truck initially got out to return fire but got back into the vehicles when they realised they were dangerously outnumbered 
They sped ahead 200 yards then realized the other men, who were in an unarmed Land Cruiser, were behind and in the kill zone
Two other US soldiers got out of the truck on foot and marched back towards the Cruiser while Johnson covered them from a mounted machine gun on the pick-up truck
The cruiser was hit by a mortar and all three inside the vehicle were killed
Johnson's pick-up truck was also hit and it's likely his body was thrown from it as it bounded along the ground
For two hours after the first call for back-up was made, surviving soldiers were under fire from the militants
When French fighter jets arrived and scared them off, the surviving US and Nigerien soldiers were back-to-back, still firing shots 
Sgt. Johnson's body was only discovered on October 6 when a village elder, who previously stalled them from leaving Tongo Tongo, revealed where it was to Nigerien forces 
The men were due to have back-up for the doomed mission but the unit which was supposed to accompany them was unable to at the last minute
Instead of being called back to base, they were told to proceed


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## jackmick (Nov 15, 2017)

Unfortunately new reports suggest that Sgt. Johnson was captured and executed. 
<mod edit>

Article


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## Ooh-Rah (Nov 15, 2017)

jackmick said:


> Unfortunately new reports suggest that Sgt. Johnson was captured and executed.  <mod edit>
> 
> Article



Okay so you didn't do anything wrong necessarily, but consider this.  There are members of this board who may have very personal connections to the men involved in this story.  At 16 years old you don't really have a lot to add to this thread, and the detail you wrote out can be found in the story if guys want to click the article...give them the option.

Thanks.


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## Gunz (Nov 15, 2017)

I clicked. Re Sgt Johnson RIP and no further comment or speculation.


From the article:

_*"A senior Nigerien security official said... that the military unit made a critical error by deciding to spend the night along the volatile Mali-Niger border. That allowed the militants to surveil the unit and plan the ambush that occurred the following morning outside Tongo Tongo as the team was heading back to their base, he said."*_

I don't know if the above is true or not...but one thing I know from experience. Stay in one place too long and the enemy has time to get in position to kill you. They already know where you are because sympathetic villagers will keep them informed of your movements. If you don't loiter and keep mobile, you make it harder for the enemy to get a good attack set-up. SF guys know this better than anybody, so I'd also assume the decision might not have been their's to make.


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## Frank S. (Nov 15, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> "a chain of approval that snakes through the Pentagon, State Department and the Nigerien government"



The snake is long. Seven miles. Driver, where you taking us?


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## jackmick (Nov 16, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> Okay so you didn't do anything wrong necessarily, but consider this.  There are members of this board who may have very personal connections to the men involved in this story.  At 16 years old you don't really have a lot to add to this thread, and the detail you wrote out can be found in the story if guys want to click the article...give them the option.
> 
> Thanks.


My apologies. I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to just post a link. I recognize my error here. Thank you.


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## Ooh-Rah (Dec 17, 2017)

*- UPDATE -*

This is the story we are going with on Sgt. Johnson.

US soldier ambushed in Niger wasn't captured

_An American soldier killed in an ambush in Niger with three comrades but recovered days later wasn’t captured alive by the enemy or executed at close range, The Associated Press has learned, based on the conclusion of a military investigation. It found evidence he apparently fought to the end.

Dispelling a swirl of rumors about how Sgt. La David T. Johnson, 25, of Miami Gardens, Florida, died, the report has determined that he was killed by enemy rifle and machine gun fire as he fled the attack by an offshoot of the Islamic State group about 120 miles (200 kilometers) north of Niamey, the capital of the African country. The attack took place Oct. 4; Johnson’s body was recovered two days later._


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## RackMaster (Dec 17, 2017)

Hopefully this can give his family a little closure.


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## Poccington (Feb 18, 2018)

‘An Endless War’: Why 4 U.S. Soldiers Died in a Remote African Desert

A pretty sobering and detailed account of what happened the 4 men during the firefight, as the NYT have obtained the helmet cam footage from the camera worn by Staff Sgt Johnson.


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## 256 (Feb 18, 2018)

Unfortunately, while it might bring some closure it's also a preview before the actual helmet cam release. As much as I hope there's only one copy and people in place can some stop the release, it's going to be released. That really sucks.


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## Gunz (Feb 18, 2018)

256 said:


> Unfortunately, while it might bring some closure it's also a preview before the actual helmet cam release. As much as I hope there's only one copy and people in place can some stop the release, _it's going to be released_. That really sucks.




I won't watch it even if it is. I got enough demons of my own without adding somebody else's. 

Besides, I think it's disrespectful to these brave men and their families to release video of their deaths.


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## Ooh-Rah (Feb 18, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Besides, I think it's disrespectful to these brave men and their families to release video of their deaths.



Agreed.  In fact I have not been able to make myself read the account that @Poccington posted yet.  There is zero chance I would even consider watching a video of it.


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## 256 (Feb 18, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> Besides, I think it's disrespectful to these brave men and their families to release video of their deaths.



Unfortunately it’s going to be released by the ISIS militants that took it originally. It’s interesting that the media was able to obtain a copy, I wonder how. You’d think American media outlets wouldn’t be contacting twitter accounts associated with ISIS affiliates. If they did get a copy, did they pay for it or exchange something? I would find it hard to believe that they could fall for “buying it to keep it off the web.” I ask generally because I don’t know..


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## AWP (Feb 18, 2018)

256 said:


> Unfortunately it’s going to be released by the ISIS militants that took it originally. It’s interesting that the media was able to obtain a copy, I wonder how. You’d think American media outlets wouldn’t be contacting twitter accounts associated with ISIS affiliates. If they did get a copy, did they pay for it or exchange something? I would find it hard to believe that they could fall for “buying it to keep it off the web.” I ask generally because I don’t know..



ISIS is a bit more sophisticated with social media than people realize. Major media outlets no doubt have someone on contract to look for this stuff. The two are a powerful combination.

---

ETA: From the article:


> They had set out on Oct. 3, prepared for a routine, low-risk patrol with little chance of encountering the enemy.



Anyone want to take a stab at what this sounds like? Eerie.


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## 256 (Feb 18, 2018)

AWP said:


> ISIS is a bit more sophisticated with social media than people realize. Major media outlets no doubt have someone on contract to look for this stuff. The two are a powerful combination.




It really seems like a f-ed up way to do business, affiliating or trading favors with a know terrorist organization. But, on the other hand it could be exploited for our benefit too...I guess

I said the same thing about the date...oh and collective objective...Operation Gothic Serpent


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## Gunz (Feb 18, 2018)

AWP said:


> ...Anyone want to take a stab at what this sounds like? Eerie.



Like i wrote back in October:



Ocoka said:


> ...Mogadishu, Benghazi, now this. Fuck your light footprint, fuck your fear of escalation, fuck local resistance. There's a reason the locals don't want armed aircraft in the AO..._*because armed aircraft represent a threat to their goddam terrorist operations...*_


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## BloodStripe (Feb 19, 2018)

I'll say this much, knowing how often local village chiefs or Sheikhs are in cahoots with the enemy, the only way to truly win their hearts and minds is with a large footprint, capable of meeting their entire needs. The local populace lives amongst their terrorists, meanwhile we retreat back to the safety and comfort of the FOB. Give them security, fresh water, electricity, and more security while living with them, and then you will see fruits of labor. See Maj Gant.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 20, 2018)

Is this the same Gant who got busted down to captain. had his tab revoked, and was forced out of the Army for, among other things, drug abuse, lying to superiors, and having a live-in journalist mistress?  Dude was a warrior no doubt, but I don't think he's the role model we need to look to.


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## Florida173 (Feb 20, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> Is this the same Gant who got busted down to captain. had his tab revoked, and was forced out of the Army for, among other things, drug abuse, lying to superiors, and having a live-in journalist mistress?  Dude was a warrior no doubt, but I don't think he's the role model we need to look to.


I have some friends that worked with him and still have the utmost respect.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 20, 2018)

Florida173 said:


> I have some friends that worked with him and still have the utmost respect.



That's great.  It's too bad they didn't respect him enough to help him do the right thing when he was downrange.


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## Florida173 (Feb 20, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> That's great.  It's too bad they didn't respect him enough to help him do the right thing when he was downrange.



Different times and through a different lens. We don't need to put the blinders on with regards to what he was able to accomplish because of his downfall through PTSD driven opioid abuse.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 20, 2018)

Which was what, exactly?  And according to whom?  It seems more likely that he snowed a lot of people for a long time before it caught up with him.


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## DA SWO (Feb 20, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> Is this the same Gant who got busted down to captain. had his tab revoked, and was forced out of the Army for, among other things, drug abuse, lying to superiors, and having a live-in journalist mistress?  Dude was a warrior no doubt, but I don't think he's the role model we need to look to.



Live-in mistress, thought you were talking about Petraeus for a second.


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## Marauder06 (Feb 20, 2018)

DA SWO said:


> Live-in mistress, thought you were talking about Petraeus for a second.


Lots of that going on, apparently.    Interestingly enough, Petrarus was one of Gamt’s supporters.


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## BloodStripe (Feb 20, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> Is this the same Gant who got busted down to captain. had his tab revoked, and was forced out of the Army for, among other things, drug abuse, lying to superiors, and having a live-in journalist mistress?  Dude was a warrior no doubt, but I don't think he's the role model we need to look to.



I should have expanded further. Yes, he wasn't without major faults, but his successes could be seen. Many failed initiatives, like using cash as a weapon, failed because there is no consistency throughout different commanders and their strategies. Maj. Gant's 22 months allowed him to be a focal point. That in my opinion helped sustain a constancy that is lacking in us winning hearts and minds. I would prefer to not derail this thread further so I will contiue these thoughts in the ISIS thread.


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## Rapid (Mar 4, 2018)

Was a bit surprised to see SOFREP posting the video to their website/YouTube account today. I suppose it's fully out there now anyway.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 4, 2018)

Rapid said:


> Was a bit surprised to see SOFREP posting the video to their website/YouTube account today. I suppose it's fully out there now anyway.



They (SOFREP) are getting taken to task in the comments.  Zero chance I would watch this; I cannot imagine their rational for posting.


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## BloodStripe (Mar 4, 2018)

Fuck SOFREP.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 4, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> ...I cannot imagine their rational for posting.



$$$$ the same reason they always do anything. 

I have some good stories about dealing with them that I will tell you when we meet up face to face.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 4, 2018)

Marauder06 said:


> $$$$ the same reason they always do anything.



That must be why they have their oversized logo added to the whole video.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 4, 2018)

Logos... egos... I've heard people say that there are lots of "oversized' things going on in that company.  Last I'll say on the subject of SOFREP in this thread though so as not to divert attention from what happened to our guys in Africa.


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## Scubadew (Mar 5, 2018)

Those men fought like lions and I wish they were still here.


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## DA SWO (Mar 5, 2018)

I believe Funker350 had it out first.
Their reasoning was the just show videos, and this should be treated as any other video out there.
Don't know if I agree, but I guess they are being consistent.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 3, 2018)

.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 3, 2018)

*- update -*

US soldiers killed in Niger were outgunned, 'left behind' in hunt for ISIS leader

Four Army special operations soldiers killed in action during an ambush in Niger last October were part of a largely inexperienced and lightly-armed team outmatched by ISISfighters who exploited bad decisions by U.S. commanders, families of the fallen soldiers and other sources briefed on the military investigation told ABC News.

"They were left on their own and it was The Alamo. They were abandoned," the parent of one of the American commandos who died told ABC News. "The sad thing is, they didn't realize they'd been left behind, and by the time the other guys attempted to get to them, it was probably too late, and they'd been killed."


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## Kraut783 (May 4, 2018)

I do wish the military/admin would stop not being honest with families in theses situations. Starting back from the days of Pat Tillman friendly fire death to now. If you lie, it's going to come out....and it's just going to be 100% worse.


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## Grunt (May 4, 2018)

Honesty is *always* the best policy -- even when it's painful. Whether it's the good, the bad, or the ugly...get it out there and get in front of it. That's the mature thing to do...and it's right.


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## Marauder06 (May 4, 2018)

I think sometimes that accuracy gets sacrificed for speed.  Commanders want to get as much information as they can to the families, as soon as they can.  First reports are almost always wrong, or at least incomplete, and later corrections to the record come across as cover-up.


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## DA SWO (May 4, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> *- update -*
> 
> US soldiers killed in Niger were outgunned, 'left behind' in hunt for ISIS leader
> 
> ...


Not happy that the Captain is being thrown under the bus.
Management fucked up, and the tactical level folks bear the brunt of their mistake.


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## DozerB (May 4, 2018)

They are tearing that TL to shreds. Fudged up accountability during a gunfight with multiple vehicles moving and firing, multiple casualties sustained, and both sides of your helmet blaring commanders' voices demanding SITREPs... I understand the people in the article are experiencing immense pain, but I'm not sure one can overstate the chaos of the situation. Officer Candidates lose people between the barracks and the chow hall at OCS, not because they're idiots or apathetic, but because keeping track of moving humans takes brainpower; now add incoming fire, spotty comms, and separate vehicles to the equation. I hate the way the article makes it sound like he was incompetent simply because he lost track of where his guys were WHILE GETTING ATTACKED.

Oh, and the writer can pound sand for this one: "only one combat deployment to Afghanistan." Clearly trying to make the guy sound inexperienced. That's more than 90% of the TLs I know coming through these days.


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## Gunz (May 4, 2018)

They were up shit alley. They needed a react and CAS and what they got--an unarmed drone and French Mirage jets unable to establish a  visual target--were ridiculously inadequate. We've been over this. This was a clusterfuck of an ambush and these Soldiers needed immediate help in the form of firepower and it wasn't available because risk averse higher ups and politicians, once again, let our people die rather than offend the locals with too big a footprint. Fuck that. Do not send our people into hostile territory unless you are willing and able to back them up.  These Mog-Benghazi situations don't have to have these desperate outcomes if enough assets are in place.


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## SpitfireV (May 4, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> They were up shit alley. They needed a react and CAS and what they got--an unarmed drone and French Mirage jets unable to establish a  visual target--were ridiculously inadequate. We've been over this. This was a clusterfuck of an ambush and these Soldiers needed immediate help in the form of firepower and it wasn't available because risk averse higher ups and politicians, once again, let our people die rather than offend the locals with too big a footprint. Fuck that. Do not send our people into hostile territory unless you are willing and able to back them the fuck up. I'm so fucking fed up with these Mog-Benghazi situations that don't have to have these desperate outcomes if enough assets are in place. We had small autonomous teams in the boonies in VN, very vulnerable to attack, and yet we could pull the chain on arty, fixed wing or rotor CAS, and foot react if needed. Don't deploy valuable SF/SOF without on-call support, QRF, CAS etc.



The terrible thing about what you're saying is that of all the countries in the world who can do that...the US is the most capable.


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## BloodStripe (May 4, 2018)

I think what we're also hearing is one side of the story, from that of grieving family members. In reading through that link they are saying the military made tactical decisions that were incorrect. How many of those family members have earned a beret of any color, let alone green to make such a statement?


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## Gunz (May 5, 2018)

Grieving families lash out. Hindsight is 20/20. Mistakes were made. But one AC130 flying overwatch might've made the difference.


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## TacoTraplord (May 5, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> That must be why they have their oversized logo added to the whole video.



That "oversized logo" was to cover up the flag that was watermarked on the video, they also removed the audio because there was music in the form of propaganda and fake screams edited into the video.


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## Marauder06 (May 5, 2018)

The logo was added to promote their company. Plain and simple.


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## CDG (May 5, 2018)

TacoTraplord said:


> That "oversized logo" was to cover up the flag that was watermarked on the video, they also removed the audio because there was music in the form of propaganda and fake screams edited into the video.


You are basing this on what? What they said in the explanatory article they released after the blowback from releasing the video?


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## TacoTraplord (May 5, 2018)

DeadZeppelin said:


> Sofrep can try and spin it any way they want, at the end of the day they reposted terrorist propaganda with their logo on it in hopes of bolstering their companies revenue. Fuck sofrep.
> 
> 
> The author of that letter (who called out operational SF guys by name, but decided to remain anonymous.) is clearly biased. IUW didn't exist 10 years ago, and now it's suddenly foundational to the training of every generation of Green Berets? Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.



Legitimate question: how does that bolster their revenue? Just trying to get more people to subscribe? 
After your responses, I won't bring it up again because I don't want to detract any more from the discussion or the warriors that made the ultimate sacrifice. I just don't want to think that those from the same community would let something like this slide if it was for such purposes.


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## DZ (May 5, 2018)

I don't think I need to explain how a video on their channel with their watermark, that has hundreds of thousands of views, gets their company revenue. Money is a son of a bitch, it can make people do stupid things..


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## AWP (May 12, 2018)

A lengthy write-up of the AFRICOM report. The report itself reads like a dumpster fire and this article tears it to shreds.

The U.S. Military's Niger Ambush Investigation Raises More Questions Than It Answers


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## Ooh-Rah (May 12, 2018)

One could think there is a 'problem' with Leadership in that part of the world....

Two Navy SEAL team leaders in Africa are being investigated over claims of sexual misconduct | Daily Mail Online


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## DozerB (May 12, 2018)

"The summary of the investigation and the remarks at the formal briefing can only be seen as highly critical of Team Ouallam’s actions. It accuses the team leader of hastily copying and pasting details about the newly proposed mission into an existing template, which gave a false sense of plan’s scope."

I haven't done even close to the amount of cool things as 90% of the people on this board, but what I have done is:

1) A ridiculous amount of ConOps
2) A ridiculous amount of OpOrders

It seems that journalists must truly believe that missions get planned over 12 day periods in a nice, climate-controlled tent, sipping chocolate chip lattes and getting every ounce of information from the awkward intel guy in the corner while he stands at parade rest and the troops practice close order drill outside. "Hastily copying and pasting details about a newly proposed mission into an existing template" is literally taught to junior officers at every level of professional military education. You don't have time for anything else.

I hate that it is being used out of context to make this guy sound haphazard and careless.


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## BloodStripe (May 12, 2018)

I'm all for plagiarizing work. Why recreate the wheel if you don't have to? But, and it's a very big but, you still have to read and review whatever it is you are using again and checking for accuracy.


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## DA SWO (May 12, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> I'm all for plagiarizing work. Why recreate the wheel if you don't have to? But, and it's a very big but, you still have to read and review whatever it is you are using again and checking for accuracy.


True, but a lot of shit diesn't change, and as long as management demands an OpOrd vs a FragOrd then cut and paste it is.


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## BloodStripe (May 12, 2018)

Isn't attention to detail preached on here to the youngsters or SOF hopefuls? Lack of time isn't be a valid enough reason to not review your work.


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## CDG (May 12, 2018)

NavyBuyer said:


> Isn't attention to detail preached on here to the youngsters or SOF hopefuls? Lack of time isn't be a valid enough reason to not review your work.


Come on man. Do you really not understand the difference here? If the CONOP/WARNO/whatever was bad, then higher should have disapproved it.


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## Gunz (May 12, 2018)

Ooh-Rah said:


> One could think there is a 'problem' with Leadership in that part of the world....
> 
> Two Navy SEAL team leaders in Africa are being investigated over claims of sexual misconduct | Daily Mail Online




That's all? No drugs or murders involved this time?  What, are they trying to go straight?


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## Teufel (May 12, 2018)

I think we are missing the real point here; sometimes people forget that graduating from a SOF entry level course does not make you invincible. Combat is messy and things can go wrong very quickly. We mitigate that risk through training, discipline, sound tactics, and planning. Close air support helps of course. It sounds like this team may have taken some shortcuts and may have experienced some mission creep. I wasn’t there so I can’t say either way. They paid the price for the mistakes they made, whatever those mistakes were, and the survivors will have to live with that. 

There is a lesson here though for some of you young warfighters out there: don’t be in a rush to die. I have met many Marines who have not experienced high intensity combat and are eager to make contact with the enemy. We risk our lives, and the lives of our men, to defeat our enemies and accomplish the missions we are assigned. Make it count. Make sure that the objective is worth dying for and do everything in your power to increase your odds of success and reduce the risk to your men. Do rehearsals and inspections before stepping off for the fight. Complacency and laziness is deadlier than any bullet. I’m not saying that is what happened here but this unfortunate incident reminds us of the price we may have to pay for skipping those pre-combat steps. Rest In Peace warriors.


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## BloodStripe (May 12, 2018)

CDG said:


> Come on man. Do you really not understand the difference here? If the CONOP/WARNO/whatever was bad, then higher should have disapproved it.



How was higher supposed to know? Read their minds? Thats what CONOPS are for.


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## AWP (May 12, 2018)

Level Zero Heroes had a passage about CONOPS, how if they weren't a level zero for risk, they were automatically rejected. The result is they gamed the system and rated them all as a level zero so higher would rubber stamp them for approval.

Did the team do this? Is that the command climate in Africa? I have no idea, but to think what occured in LZH was an isolated incident especially given our military's penchant for risk avoidance, is ludicrous.


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## Ooh-Rah (May 13, 2018)

DozerB said:


> They are tearing that TL to shreds. Fudged up accountability during a gunfight with multiple vehicles moving and firing, multiple casualties sustained, and both sides of your helmet blaring commanders' voices demanding SITREPs... I understand the people in the article are experiencing immense pain, but I'm not sure one can overstate the chaos of the situation. Officer Candidates lose people between the barracks and the chow hall at OCS, not because they're idiots or apathetic, but because keeping track of moving humans takes brainpower; now add incoming fire, spotty comms, and separate vehicles to the equation. I hate the way the article makes it sound like he was incompetent simply because he lost track of where his guys were WHILE GETTING ATTACKED.
> 
> Oh, and the writer can pound sand for this one: "only one combat deployment to Afghanistan." Clearly trying to make the guy sound inexperienced. That's more than 90% of the TLs I know coming through these days.



The father of one of the fallen is *not* blaming the Captain.

Father of soldier killed in Niger says officers cited in investigation...

The father of a U.S. soldier killed in a devastating ambush in Niger last year said his family does not blame two Army captains that the U.S. military cited for lapses in planning in an investigation summary released Thursday, saying any mistakes did not contribute directly to the death of their loved one.

Army Staff Sgt. Bryan Black, 35, was killed Oct. 4 while maneuvering alongside a vehicle as he and his fellow soldiers faced a hail of enemy fire outside the village of Tongo Tongo in an attack that eventually sparked a political firestorm in Washington and a months-long military investigation. Black's father, Henry, said investigators told him his son repeatedly fired on the enemy with both his service rifle and a grenade launcher before he eventually fell, mortally wounded.

Moments later, two fellow soldiers who had been fighting alongside him, Staff Sgt. Dustin M. Wright, 29, and Staff Sgt. Jeremiah W. Johnson, 39, also were killed, the Pentagon said in the eight-page summary released Thursday. A fourth U.S. soldier, Sgt. La David T. Johnson, 25, was killed less than 30 minutes later and not found for another two days. All four soldiers were stripped of their equipment.
"At some point as they were moving and the vehicle was moving, Bryan was apparently ahead of the vehicle, and he was killed," Black's father said. "Dustin and Jeremiah pulled his body behind the vehicle, and they continued to engage the enemy until they were apparently [nearly] overrun. And then . . . Jeremiah was hit. Dustin returned to stay with him and fight with him, and they fought together until they died from the wounds they had."


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## Gunz (May 13, 2018)

@Teufel warns of the perils of complacency and laziness and I couldn't agree more. I've known certain Marine units to slack off on combat patrols or to try and play it safe and spend less time in contested areas...and who have paid the price.

Complacency, relaxed vigilance, lack of aggressive patrolling is just an invitation to your enemy, giving him freedom to move, freedom to set up ambushes and IEDs, freedom to influence and intimidate civilians.

I've given my opinion on this African debacle so I won't comment further other than to repeat that a gunship overhead might have saved somebody...and to laud the incredible bravery of these men.


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## Kraut783 (Nov 6, 2018)

*An Operation in Niger Went Fatally Awry. Who Is the Army Punishing?*

Pretty good article here of the fall out.....towards the end there is a video of positions and reconstruction based on helmet cam (no actual video is shown).

An Operation in Niger Went Fatally Awry. Who Is the Army Punishing?


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## Gunz (Nov 6, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> *An Operation in Niger Went Fatally Awry. Who Is the Army Punishing?*
> 
> Pretty good article here of the fall out.....towards the end there is a video of positions and reconstruction based on helmet cam (no actual video is shown).
> 
> An Operation in Niger Went Fatally Awry. Who Is the Army Punishing?




Good article. On the face of it, it sounds unfair. But The NY Times is not privy to all the pertinent facts and they have a reputation for accentuating anything that smells of injustice.

From my POV, yes, it's important to train with your counterparts and get a handle on what kind of people they are. Are they dependable? Trustworthy? Are they going to unass the AO and leave you with your dick in your hand during the first hairy contact?


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## Kraut783 (Nov 6, 2018)

Agreed....just posting the newest thing I have found.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 6, 2018)

Ocoka said:


> From my POV, yes, it's important to train with your counterparts and get a handle on what kind of people they are. Are they dependable? Trustworthy? Are they going to unass the AO and leave you with your dick in your hand during the first hairy contact?



I agree, at a minimum running a few react to contact drills and getting the "I'm the commander and you are just a soldier" bullshit cleared up. I would have a hard time believing that any unit wouldn't have done that much less an ODA (just don't sound right).

I will say I have heard some absolute horrific stories about different African troops,  primarily having to deal with unreliable and argumentive leaders and weapons and uniforms being dropped in the middle of firefights.


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## Gunz (Nov 6, 2018)

Kraut783 said:


> Agreed....just posting the newest thing I have found.



Roger that.. but still some of the wrong guys might've been reprimanded here. We don't know.

I put a lot of the blame on whoever up the chain decided our ground teams there shouldn't have on-call air support. Just one attack helo could've tipped the scale.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Nov 7, 2018)

I don't know if I agree with that.  Any NCO would call bullshit if planning wasn't stat.


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