# .Rank/ front lines



## Gofobroke (Apr 25, 2017)

Gents this question is a little different. I've used the search function first before posting as I know repeating questions are annoying. I'm an air wing sergeant in the SMCR looking to transition to the ground side. Recon or Marsoc possibly counter intel.  My question is what rank are you more of a supervisor behind the wire? I understand you'll be in the front lines for awhile obviously so you can get the experience before you get into a supervisory role. However, if you wanted to keep going out on patrols, raids, etc. as a staff sergeant or even gunny is that possible or will they keep you back? Thanks for taking the time to read this.


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## Stanimal (Apr 25, 2017)

In the interest of keeping this unclassified, let me just say that the position of MARSOC Team Chief (TC) is a Master Sergeant billet.  So,....you can "pull the trigger" for quite awhile.  That being said, I often joke that the T/O weapons for a TC are a mouse and a keyboard.  They spend a lot more time staring at computer screens than when they were SSgt Element Leaders.  They still PT, jump, dive, shoot, patrol, etc. with their team on every op.  They're just responsible for a lot more than they used to be.  They can't just have ownership of one little piece of the pie.  They own the whole thing.  They are looking more up and out vice down and in.  Bigger, bluer arrows so to speak.  Get it?  BTW, it's the natural evolution of things as you gain rank to do less cool shit, and have more responsibility.  It is what it is.  No one wants to work for a MSgt or a Major that's only interested in doing Sergeant shit, because he probably sucks at his real job.


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## Gofobroke (Apr 25, 2017)

Well that's a relief. Thanks for the response. I was a little worried I'd work hard for just a couple years of trigger time. Yes that makes sense as you rank up you do less cool shit more. That's what I was trying to find out when that cutoff was. And master sergeant is a good bit away so thats exactly what I wanted to hear. Anyone can chime in on the recon side? I'm guessing it's roughly the same cutoff, E7 or E8


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## Teufel (Apr 25, 2017)

A Recon platoon sergeant is a GySgt billet. That is roughly analogous to a Raider team chief. A Recon MSgt normally serves as a company operations chief and spends a lot of his time in the operations center with the commanding officer. He will go out if the entire company is conducting an operation.


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## Gofobroke (Apr 25, 2017)

Thanks Teufel. Both responses are good news! Off to the ole dusty trail I go...


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## Teufel (Apr 25, 2017)

Also keep in mind that you can't keep going forever. It takes a long time to become a GySgt or MSgt and people get married, have kids, get old... you get the idea.

It's fun to be on a team but I think it's also fun to mentor your subordinates and pass along all the things you learned in 10+ years of gun-fighting. It's important to give back to the community. I've served at the platoon, company, and battalion level, and I've found all those experiences to be extremely rewarding.


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 26, 2017)

Keeping this short, you won't get an A&S assignment without a lot of work at the rank of Sergeant.

Lateral move to Counter Intel or EOD. I promise you will be thrust into the thick of shit into your senior GySgt ranks including sometimes MSgt (especially true for EOD). CI and EOD are typically senior ranking positions who have relevance to teams but aren't cock-blocked by the same rank responsibilities of say an E8 0372.

Basically, until you hit Warrant or senior level E8, you'll be doing more hands on work than you could have ever imagined for yourself. Some of what I'm saying is subjective, I've never done anything except deploy to the middle east (Afghan & Iraq) however, I don't see any of that changing anytime soon which is good news for you.

Both jobs, like any - come with their downsides but for what you are hinting towards and in the interest in you maintaining a legitimate career I would suggest those options. If you think you're just going to be an EOD guy playing battle bots on the Bari Dash in Helmand Province you definitely have the wrong impression.

Stop looking at the obvious answers and observe the angles - 0372 is out for you and 0321 could be a hillclimb (no fucking clue). The mentioned options put you at the perfect entry space for those career fields based on your rank and give you a lot of freedom of movement assuming you obtain the title.

H/A


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## Gofobroke (Apr 26, 2017)

Absolutely right Teufel. It's always great to give back after the corps has taken care of you.  Hate Ape, thanks I am aware it's incredibly hard work. Counter intel I was also considering since I essentially will be with peers which have all lat moved. Makes the transition a little better when you don't have PFC's that make you a boot. At least in the recon MOS anyway. I'm just not sure if counter intel is combat oriented which is what I've been wanting to do. I've read up some on their day to days and it looks like lots of paper work doing reports, researching the enemy, and providing information to the commander about potential threats. Also they locate/ eliminate/ or detain and question persons of interest. Not to sure if they actually do the detaining or eliminating aspect or if that responsibility is passed off to other ground units. That's the only part I was hesitant about. But I guess you're saying they're out on the front quite a bit?


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 26, 2017)

I'm not making this conversation any more lengthy than it has to be - they get their gun on I assure you.

Clear out the text in your post about what you've researched. (I'm not a mod)


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## Gofobroke (Apr 26, 2017)

I haven't even considered EOD. But will look more into it. Thanks. How do I edit post?


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## The Hate Ape (Apr 26, 2017)

You don't have enough posts, someone will do it - I'm not sure if it needs to happen but I don't like discussing any more than what needs to be discussed and there's no need to disseminate information like that even if it is on google.

Another note:

I hate how the career decisions you are making are in the aspect of "I want to be in combat."

From a large perspective, any of the jobs listed in this thread grant you that ability but you are knit-picking to achieve maximum efficiency in something that only lasts less than an hour (most times). You're putting all of your eggs in the wrong basket. Lets also assume that you don't get killed in the process of any of these COAs (or medically discharged from training injuries).

Most of the students graduating ITC are Corporals & brand new Sergeants. Soon they will ALL be Sergeants and they will all be competing with each other for Staff along with the next class, and the next and so on. Some of these guys will end up bag holders, meaning, they will not be reenlisted.

The Marine Corps is not a perfect functioning system, it functions to mission completion. They do not give a fuck about dropping a guy like you who will likely only get one deployment (if you do) in before you are up for selection to Staff. Seriously, fuck around and get passed over - not to mention the fact that you can never leave the unit to do anything else. You will start swirling in a community you know nothing about and eventually, before you know it, you'll be stuck in the frat house with all the dudes you either saw in A&S, ITC, or some guy who was an asshole to you as your EL or Ops Chief.

Bro, you are about to commit your entire career to an organization you know nothing about and you're doing it to achieve combat bona fides and please do not pretend you are doing anything else in this situation. There is a major tractor trailer full of bullshit that you have to go through in order to even find that, some dudes never even deploy to legit combat AOs but you want to do all of this for that?

If you go with Counter Intel or EOD - at a perfect entry, you will not only have a greater chance of success (in achieving this Valhalla Whiskey Bourbon Trail you seek) you will also find some serious promotion opportunities, self-sufficiency, a smaller community to tap into, and a huge network of spaces to insert yourself after the Marine Corps.

If you go to MARSOC as a CI guy or EOD - yes you will see combat; afterward, you will move on with your life and continue to do good shit, as a guy who can leave and come back freely with literally a position that nobody can really replace or question.

H/A


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## Gofobroke (Apr 26, 2017)

Hate Ape, you keep it real and I really appreciate that. Lots of good info on this thread. As a side note, I will say that I have a career, I was planning on doing this (lat move) in the reserves. I'd like some deployments to break the monotony of my civilian job though. And you're right about us POG's trying so hard to get into a combat job. While I was active, I couldn't lat move because I was in a high demand low density MOS. Got out after my first term as a sergeant.  Maybe it's shallow, but some of us have something to prove to ourselves.  Don't get me wrong I have no regrets in what I did. I loved it. But, now that I'm out i'd like to do one of these jobs. I will do some homework on EOD and weigh the options and go from there. Thanks for your feedback it's awesome.


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## Teufel (Apr 26, 2017)

There are no reserve EOD or MARSOC units although HQMC had indicated they may allow 0372s to fill 0321 billets in the reserves without lat moving to recon.  Everyone is discussing active duty opportunities. If you want to go active then you have a lot of information to consider. I would join a reserve recon company if you want to stay in the reserves though. I believe that will meet your expectations.


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## Gofobroke (Apr 26, 2017)

Thank you Teufel. For some reason I thought there was a reserve marsoc company in Lejeune. Could be support though. But I guess that narrows it down to Counter Intel and Recon. Both awesome jobs. Luckily both reserve units are within 8 hours so not too bad. Who knows once I complete training I'll probably like my marine job a lot better than my civy one and be back on AD haha.


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## Teufel (Apr 26, 2017)

HET is a great MOS.... on the active side. I don't know what they do on the reserve side for one weekend a month and two weeks a year. I would ask around about that.


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## Gofobroke (Apr 26, 2017)

Thanks I'll dig around and ask in the intelligence forum.


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## Teufel (Apr 26, 2017)

I don't think we have any reserve HET guys on here. I don't think there are that many in the Marine Corps.


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## Gofobroke (Apr 27, 2017)

I'll get in touch with a CI recruiter thanks


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## Teufel (Apr 27, 2017)

What is the your desired end state? Let's start there. Define that accurately and you can figure out what reserve MOS will fit that bill.


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## arch_angel (Apr 29, 2017)

Teufel said:


> There are no reserve EOD or MARSOC units although HQMC had indicated they may allow 0372s to fill 0321 billets in the reserves without lat moving to recon.  Everyone is discussing active duty opportunities. If you want to go active then you have a lot of information to consider. I would join a reserve recon company if you want to stay in the reserves though. I believe that will meet your expectations.



Sir, you are correct that there are no EOD units in the SMCR, however, there are EOD BICS all across MARFORRES. I know each Squadron in 4th MAW holds a number of them at their Engineer Dets, I'm sure the CEBs do as well. @Gofobroke just in case you're interested, as of February of this year MFR was still soliciting for lat-moves into the EOD community (complete with the ~$50k bonus).

Also for reference, _most _of the Company level units in 4th MARDIV will conduct a lot of their drills once a quarter. So instead of 1 weekend a month it turns into 1 week every 3 months. It is much easier for units to conduct their field-problems and appropriate ranges over that period of time than the usual 1 weekend per month.


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