# U.S. Naval Academy and the Marine Corps



## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

Greetings all,

I am a high school student considering a military career and am interested in attending the US Naval Academy. This thread is directed towards others in a similar position, those who are enlisted and are interested in attending, and to those that have or are currently attending the Academy. To those who have gone through the process: could you please shed some light on what attending the Academy was like, words of advice for those applying or going to attend, and any regrets or benefits which you now have as a result of attending. Also, if you applied while  enlisted, could you please explain any difficulties you might have encountered in terms of the application (timing, document processing, meetings, etc). To those who are applying or have applied (from the fleet or elsewhere): Could you also explain any difficulties you might have encountered in the application process, your background, and your reason for applying.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

Here is a review of my background. I grew up in a military family, my father served in the Army. He was in HUMINT and served multiple tours in Ramadi, Iraq, and was stationed in California, Texas, Arizona, Missouri, and South Korea. I grew up educated by a combination of homeschooling and private tutors. I have done fairly well in school, maintaining a high GPA, strong ACT score, and multiple honors courses. I will be graduating this  May under the Distinguished Graduation Plan in Texas. I have not been able to take as many AP courses as I would have liked due to un-availability, but have taken a few. I have been enrolled in college under a dual-credit program for the last two years (I am 17 currently, started when I was 15) and have completed classes in History, English, Psychology, and Spanish. I was enrolled in a Calculus in college class but due to not working well with the professor I opted to drop that class early on and instead took AP Calculus with a private tutor. I have steadily volunteered in community and traveled a considerable amount. I have worked on several mission trips and will be leaving in April  to spend two months as a humanitarian aid worker in the Philippines. I have been involved in several academic clubs throughout the years, first and foremost Speech and Debate. Athletically, I run cross country and have participated in similar events  (marathons, triathlons, , 5k's, etc). I have worked at Whataburger, Texas Roadhouse, and Starbucks since over the past (nearly) two years.  I would like to apply to the US Naval Academy and become an officer in the Marine Corp, particularly in either the Recon Marines or MARSOC. I am cloudy on that process and would appreciate if anyone could clarify it for me. Finally, as you may have noticed, I have not participated in team sports. As best I can tell, that is a defining characteristic of those accepted to the Academy. For that reason, I am considering enlisting first and applying after in order to "prove myself" as a viable candidate despite the lack of team-based athletic  activities.


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## GOfalcons10 (Mar 14, 2017)

Gurahiyi,

I applied to the Naval Academy, got a nomination but did not get appointed (actually did it twice). Did a stint in Marine Option NROTC and am will be commissioning this May through the PLC program. 

If you want to be a Marine officer, my advice is to apply to the academy and look at other options as well. Research NROTC, PLC and if you want to enlist make sure you understand that as well. When I was in high school I really wanted to attend the academy, but it didn't work out and in the end it does not really matter. 

There are some on this forum that are much more qualified to answer this question but I hope that helps. Let me know if have any other questions or need any specifics. Good luck


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## Red Flag 1 (Mar 14, 2017)

Gurahiyi said:


> Here is a review of my background. I grew up in a military family, my father served in the Army. He was in HUMINT and served multiple tours in Ramadi, Iraq, and was stationed in California, Texas, Arizona, Missouri, and South Korea. I grew up educated by a combination of homeschooling and private tutors. I have done fairly well in school, maintaining a high GPA, strong ACT score, and multiple honors courses. I will be graduating this  May under the Distinguished Graduation Plan in Texas. I have not been able to take as many AP courses as I would have liked due to un-availability, but have taken a few. I have been enrolled in college under a dual-credit program for the last two years (I am 17 currently, started when I was 15) and have completed classes in History, English, Psychology, and Spanish. I was enrolled in a Calculus in college class but due to not working well with the professor I opted to drop that class early on and instead took AP Calculus with a private tutor. I have steadily volunteered in community and traveled a considerable amount. I have worked on several mission trips and will be leaving in April  to spend two months as a humanitarian aid worker in the Philippines. I have been involved in several academic clubs throughout the years, first and foremost Speech and Debate. Athletically, I run cross country and have participated in similar events  (marathons, triathlons, , 5k's, etc). I have worked at Whataburger, Texas Roadhouse, and Starbucks since over the past (nearly) two years.  I would like to apply to the US Naval Academy and become an officer in the Marine Corp, particularly in either the Recon Marines or MARSOC. I am cloudy on that process and would appreciate if anyone could clarify it for me. Finally, as you may have noticed, I have not participated in team sports. As best I can tell, that is a defining characteristic of those accepted to the Academy. For that reason, I am considering enlisting first and applying after in order to "prove myself" as a viable candidate despite the lack of team-based athletic  activities.



Define a "high GPA".


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

3.87 HS GPA (unweighted), 32 ACT, distinguished graduation plan (Texas), and 3.84 college GPA (dual-enrollment), multiple AP and honors classes, etc. Both GPAs would be in the 3.9 - 4.0 range if it were not for foreign language classes, in which I am admittedly a poor student (Latin, Spanish, and Russian).


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## Teufel (Mar 14, 2017)

I had a 3.0 in high school and was weak in math and science. I was a hard worker though and I ended up with a nomination to (and eventually a diploma from) the Naval Academy. Nothing is impossible.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

My ACT breakdown is a 36 Reading, 35 English, 28 Mathematics, and 29 Science.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I had a 3.0 in high school and was weak in math and science. I was a hard worker though and I ended up with a nomination to (and eventually a diploma from) the Naval Academy. Nothing is impossible.



That is... truly impressive. Could you elaborate on exactly what you mean by "hard worker" and how did you convey that in your application? Stop me if any questions would be considered G2ing the application system. I'm not trying to cheat and can make it on my own merit, but I would like to know as much as possible about what I would be getting into.


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## Teufel (Mar 14, 2017)

I had to interview with a local blue and gold officer and a senator. I had strong recommendations from retired military officers and a family history of service. I did have to go to Navy prep before going to USNA though.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 14, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I had to interview with a local blue and gold officer and a senator. I had strong recommendations from retired military officers and a family history of service. I did have to go to Navy prep before going to USNA though.



I have one strong recommendation from a retired Lt. Colonel in the USAF and can get a second from an active Colonel in the USAF as needed, but the vast majority of the recommendations I have collected for my college applications (about a 10 total) come from various teachers and mentors. My father still has strong connections to and interacts frequently with high ranking officers due to his current line of work, but they are primarily Army so I doubt they will be of much assistance. I have spent some time interested in politics (I was planning on attending law school, dating back to middle school and only changed my mind last year) and attended programs in which I worked for or with various politicians for a time. I still have some connections to individuals in those rings but who might I need to contact especially? A state senator or US senator? Or state/US representative? I do not have a long history of service, my mother is an immigrant and my father was the first in his family; should I anticipate them counting that against me or is it a neutral factor? I have no objection to attending NAPS (I believe that is the correct abbreviation?), and would welcome the opportunity to improve myself before attending.


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## Teufel (Mar 14, 2017)

Hey man that was my story. I didn't have any connections. What worked for me may not work for you. The point is that you need to be passionate and genuine about your objective. That's what I believe tipped the scales in my favor. 

I don't know any senators personally by the way, all applicants need to secure a nomination from a representative or senator to be admitted. You apply and interview with them or a board of their choosing.


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## Dienekes (Mar 14, 2017)

You seem pretty smart and have likely a couple of backup plans. I just want to encourage you to apply to multiple top schools including public. That 32 ACT will get you a presidential scholarship (full ride plus some) at nearly all top public schools that take the ACT that probably all have NROTC. I'd just hate to see an awesome scholarship go to waste because of poor planning.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Dienekes said:


> You seem pretty smart and have likely a couple of backup plans. I just want to encourage you to apply to multiple top schools including public. That 32 ACT will get you a presidential scholarship (full ride plus some) at nearly all top public schools that take the ACT that probably all have NROTC. I'd just hate to see an awesome scholarship go to waste because of poor planning.



Thank you for your concern, I have applied to 10 schools for the 2017-2018 academic year, from all across the spectrum (ranging from Ivy League to small state schools). Thus far I have been accepted into 6 of those schools, rejected from one (Georgia Tech, it was ranked first place nationally for my major so I'm not surprised), and am waiting for responses from the remaining schools. Of the schools I have been accepted to, I was a finalist in two competitions for a full ride and while I didn't win, the scholarships/financial aid still put  it very close to a full ride for the total cost of attendance (about 5-15k away depending on the school). It is not my intention to waste money or time, but the USNA is an outstanding school. If I attend college instead of enlisting right away, I still intend to continue applying to USNA throughout.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Hey man that was my story. I didn't have any connections. What worked for me may not work for you. The point is that you need to be passionate and genuine about your objective. That's what I believe tipped the scales in my favor.
> 
> I don't know any senators personally by the way, all applicants need to secure a nomination from a representative or senator to be admitted. You apply and interview with them or a board of their choosing.



Well then, sir, I think I might be ready to apply and attend USNA after all. While I will maintain my fallback plans (med school and biomedical research), I am entirely dedicated to joining the ranks of USNA graduates if at all possible. One question.  If I were to interview with a blue and gold officer, would suggesting I attend NAPS or a similar program first be a good way to show my interest or would that be too presumptive of me?


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

Hit up the admissions page on USNA.edu. It will walk you through the admissions process and requirements. They have the emails for blue and gold officers on there; they are volunteers who help you apply. They make recommendations but I'm not sure how much they influence the process. 

My blue and gold officer flew at Midway under Nimitz so I figure he found a way to make his voice heard. He told me that he saw something in me that he saw in himself and worked to help me get in despite my mediocre academics.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Hit up the admissions page on USNA.edu. It will walk you through the admissions process and requirements. They have the emails for blue and gold officers on there; they are volunteers who help you apply. They make recommendations but I'm not sure how much they influence the process.
> 
> My blue and gold officer flew at Midway under Nimitz so I figure he found a way to make his voice heard. He told me that he saw something in me that he saw in himself and worked to help me get in despite my mediocre academics.



Thank you for that advice. While  I cannot count on the same luck, I will contact those officers and see what can be done.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Hit up the admissions page on USNA.edu. It will walk you through the admissions process and requirements. They have the emails for blue and gold officers on there; they are volunteers who help you apply. They make recommendations but I'm not sure how much they influence the process.
> 
> My blue and gold officer flew at Midway under Nimitz so I figure he found a way to make his voice heard. He told me that he saw something in me that he saw in himself and worked to help me get in despite my mediocre academics.



I honestly feel like I waited too long to apply and wish I had been more aware of these institutions last year or the year prior. As it stands, I will apply anyway and continue to apply until either I am accepted or no long meet the requirements to attend. Hopefully I will only end up "losing" a year or two and be accepted to the class of 2022 or 2023.


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

Look into ROTC programs at the schools that accepted you. You're outside the application window for USNA. You could always enlist in the Marine Corps reserve while you are in college if you really want to scratch that itch.


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## Gunz (Mar 15, 2017)

The blue an gold officer came to our house to interview Chris. I'm in the back room. I hear the officer ask, "If you don't get in this time, will you try again?"
Chris says: "Maybe." :wall::wall:
That's not the kind of "passionate and genuine" they want to hear.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Look into ROTC programs at the schools that accepted you. You're outside the application window for USNA. You could always enlist in the Marine Corps reserve while you are in college if you really want to scratch that itch.



Yes and no. I'm outside the window for this current year at USNA, but from what I understand per their website, and they confirmed when I asked them directly (over the phone), that so long as I'm under 23 I am allowed to apply and attend. Thus I could, theoretically, apply for the next 6 years straight. Hopefully that won't be the case, but I am qualified to apply for future enrollment there.


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

I meant for this year. I had classmates who did a year of college elsewhere and reapplied.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I meant for this year. I had classmates who did a year of college elsewhere and reapplied.



Yes sir, sorry I misunderstood. That is exactly what I am thinking about doing now since you recommended not applying from the fleet. I think that attending USNA would be worthwhile enough that losing a year of college credits in return for attending would be an excellent trade. Either way, I will either enroll in college (ROTC program as you suggest) or enlist this coming fall, and continue applying to USNA as long as necessary. I will start the application process early June upon returning from my trip and hopefully have the best application package I can possibly amass by the time I submit several months later. No rushing on this one.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> I meant for this year. I had classmates who did a year of college elsewhere and reapplied.



The first year or two of college should be relatively easy for me. The degree plans are tough but the classes are not unlike ones I have already taken and completed with perfect scores. In any case  my workload should be light enough that I can spend a significant amount of time engaged in activities that will hopefully bolster my application (athletics, volunteer work, academic research, advanced classes, etc).


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

There you go. Sounds like you have a plan. Best of luck!


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Sir,

I don't mean to argue or question your judgment but I would appreciate your insight on one matter.  The Marine recruiter I have been talking to insists that overall my chances are better of being accepted to USNA while enlisted rather than as a civilian. This would be based on my military status, recommendations and support from active officers in the Corp, and a higher level of fitness. Given my academic scores are on par or better than the average at the Academy, while I am still open to attending NAPS, it is really the rest of my application upon which I would like to improve. I understand that Recruiters are tasked with bringing in others to the Corp so they may exaggerate or over-glorify to some degree (at least that is my assumption) in order to meet that objective. In terms of applying while on duty, I was assured that the Unit Career Planner would be more than capable of making sure all the appropriate arrangements are made. In your respected opinion, would you agree that my odds would improve as an enlisted or still maintain that I should attend college and enlist while continuing my studies?


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

Well. First of all, it wouldn't surprise me if the recruiter told you that an infantry contract is the best route to becoming an astronaut. He's not entirely wrong. Enlistment is one of many roads that may lead to the academy. I personally wouldn't want to subject myself to all the academy midshipman shenanigans after serving as a Marine for four years. You may also fall in love, have kids (the two don't always go together), get burned out etc. I personally recommend that enlisted Marines go through MECEP instead; they continue to promote while in school, accrue time in service, and don't have to play fk-fk games with a Midshipman who is younger than you are.


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## Marauder06 (Mar 15, 2017)

It is far, far easier to get into West Point as an enlisted soldier than as "just another civilian."  The Academy is always looking for highly qualified personnel to be part of the Long Gray Line.  In fact, they rarely have as many as they'd like.

Applicants still have to do a year or two as enlisted, and then usually a year at the prep school, and then four years at the Academy.  It's a much longer route, but for those who really want to go to West Point it's a good one.

Again, that's West Point not Annapolis.  I just share that with you to give some context to what your recruiter is telling you.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> Well. First of all, it wouldn't surprise me if the recruiter told you that an infantry contract is the best route to becoming an astronaut. He's not entirely wrong. Enlistment is one of many roads that may lead to the academy. I personally wouldn't want to subject myself to all the academy midshipman shenanigans after serving as a Marine for four years. You may also fall in love, have kids (the two don't always go together), get burned out etc. I personally recommend that enlisted Marines go through MECEP instead; they continue to promote while in school, accrue time in service, and don't have to play fk-fk games with a Midshipman who is younger than you are.



Sir,

I would like to note that he did not suggest the 03xx (11, 21, or 31) contract, I asked for that myself. He suggested I look at 02xx, 57xx, and 26xx MOS assignments as well. I hopefully wouldn't have to serve for four years prior to attending USNA. As best as I can tell, I have four options give or take. First, I attend college and apply to USNA while there and see what happens. Second, I enlist and apply to USNA while active and hopefully get accepted the first or second try.  Third, I go reserve and attend college while still applying to USNA, and hope the reserve status gives me an advantage. Fourth, I enlist and try for MECEP. Personally, I am more inclined to the first and second options thn the third and fourth. As far as what life throws at me... getting burned out, married or whatever else along those lines... well it seems that isn't something I can control or predict so I while keeping them in mind, I can't really factor them in to the decision.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Marauder06 said:


> It is far, far easier to get into West Point as an enlisted soldier than as "just another civilian."  The Academy is always looking for highly qualified personnel to be part of the Long Gray Line.  In fact, they rarely have as many as they'd like.
> 
> Applicants still have to do a year or two as enlisted, and then usually a year at the prep school, and then four years at the Academy.  It's a much longer route, but for those who really want to go to West Point it's a good one.
> 
> Again, that's West Point not Annapolis.  I just share that with you to give some context to what your recruiter is telling you.



Thank you, I'll bear that in mind. I'm trying to look up some statistics to see  what the difference in acceptance rates and academic scores as well as service records are for West Point and USNA. Perhaps that will shed some more light on the matter.


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

Gurahiyi said:


> Sir,
> 
> I would like to note that he did not suggest the 03xx (11, 21, or 31) contract, I asked for that myself. He suggested I look at 02xx, 57xx, and 26xx MOS assignments as well.


Hmmm intel, CBRN, and data tech. I'm sure he tailored those options to your military interests and not the remaining contracts he needs to fill this month. Infantry contracts are popular and go quick. Have you ever bought a used car? From a Nigerian prince who promises you a great deal via email? Thats basically what you're dealing with.

@Marauder06 I believe the Navy has a similar program for USNA but the Marine Corps gets a much smaller number of quotas for our enlisted than they do. The current class has 57 Sailors and 10 Marines.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Wait are you saying that Nigerian prince wont be giving me free money for life in return for my SSN and a cash donation? Dang it that explains so much...

I know fairly well not to trust them too much. As best I can tell, they really do try to help, but their agenda always comes first. That's one of the reasons I'm running by you the different things I'm told by them. Given I don't expect you to have a giant quota  to meet, your advice is more... accurate.  I expect a decent wait time if I were to enlist, I'm currently looking at the DEP and holding for 03xx contract while working up to the desired fitness level. I have till the end of the month to make my decision on my career path for the next four years or longer, and until the end of the summer to meet it (in terms of preparation). Is that current class size counting civilians (or former civilians I suppose) or just those brought in from the enlisted ranks?


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

The USNA class of 2020, per the website, accepted 1,100 students out of 17,000 applicants. 65 are prior enlisted Sailors and 9 are prior enlisted Marines.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> The USNA class of 2020, per the website, accepted 1,100 students out of 17,000 applicants. 65 are prior enlisted Sailors and 9 are prior enlisted Marines.



I found the webpage with the statistics. So from the looks of it, statistically speaking, my best bet at being appointed would be to attend a year or two of college where I focus on bolstering my application, and volunteer for NAPS.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 15, 2017)

Teufel said:


> The USNA class of 2020, per the website, accepted 1,100 students out of 17,000 applicants. 65 are prior enlisted Sailors and 9 are prior enlisted Marines.


 One final  question then I believe I have all my questions answered in regards to this matter. How does determining your MOS work if you attend USNA? If I were enlisted it was a simple pick and choose. But per the terms of the  USNA agreement, I already will owe them 5 years of military service upon graduation. Does that make it an open contract or do I still have some say in where I end up?


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## Teufel (Mar 15, 2017)

Gurahiyi said:


> One final  question then I believe I have all my questions answered in regards to this matter. How does determining your MOS work if you attend USNA? If I were enlisted it was a simple pick and choose. But per the terms of the  USNA agreement, I already will owe them 5 years of military service upon graduation. Does that make it an open contract or do I still have some say in where I end up?



All Marine Corps officers are assigned MOSes, other than pilots/NFOs, at TBS regardless of commissioning source. Enlisted Marines can sign a contract for a particular MOS, officers cannot. You can google search how that works. My experience with it is very dated.


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## AWP (Mar 15, 2017)

@Gurahiyi how do you know what you want to do and how you want to do it if you don't know anything about the process or environment? You remind me of some new guys who want to be Rangers/ SF/ Recon, etc. but can't tell you the first thing about what the units do, how to get there, nothing. Then we hear about how we don't know them, they are going to crush the course (that they know nothing about), and we're all wrong about them.

They never return. Not one. Not even for an "I told you so" post.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 16, 2017)

Sir, with respect, I'm here for a reason. You're right, I don't know a lot about this process. At all. That's why I'm here, reading old threads and articles, asking questions, I'm trying to learn. And yes, as many here have so obviously pointed out on so many threads, you could just use google. Except for the fact that google has no personal experience which it might draw on to offer advice, nor does it look at the goals of individual rather than just provide a vast amount of information. Yes, I could go to the USNA FAQs page USNA Admissions Frequently Asked Questions :: Admissions :: USNA if I chose and findd some basic information there. But nowhere on that webpage or on the admissions statistics will you find anything to suggest what Teufel did even remotely possible. By all factual data, he should not have even been considered for nomination  at USNA with his GPA, much less been appointed and graduated from there. However, pulling on his personal experience, and the information shared by others, I am now well aware of just how much a role determination and a strong work ethic might play over pure numbers. I highly doubt google would have been able to tell me that, nor would it have demonstrated ways in which one might convey that character through interviews, recommendations, and NAPS. Please do not assume that I just ignore old threads and do not read them and just ask questions at random. If I had not read the old threads, how would I have known that Teufel was an Academy graduate and thus sought out his advice? By no means did I intend to give off a cocky attitude; I would not have asked for the input of this community if I did not recognize that those here know more than I and were far better informed in these matters. With respect, you are mistaken to assume I know exactly what I want to do. I have suggested courses of actions which I was considering pursuing, but changed them per the advice of others. My initial plan was to enlist in the Corp for 4 years as  Recon Marine, leave and attend college, then return through OCS to attempt A&S selection. My current plan is markedly different: attend college for a year or two while focusing on my application and getting into USNA. I think you would agree that is rather large change, and one brought about purely by the input the community has provided. I am almost  certain I will not "crush the course". It will in fact, be one of, if not the most, challenging goals in my life up to this point. It is entirely possible that I will be failed out. I am, however, willing to risk that and will put out the effort necessary to prepare myself to make the best possible attempt that I can. I don't know  if you're wrong or right about me. I don't know what your opinion is on me to even begin to formulate a response.


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## Ooh-Rah (Mar 16, 2017)

<cough>
_Paragraphs are your friend_
<cough>


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 16, 2017)

Ooh-Rah said:


> <cough>
> _Paragraphs are your friend_
> <cough>



Yea... I kinda got carried away and forgot about proper formatting. Kicker is, I wasn't even done. I wanted to add that I would like to apologize if I have given cause for offense.


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## AWP (Mar 16, 2017)

Gurahiyi said:


> Yes, I could go to the USNA FAQs page USNA Admissions Frequently Asked Questions :: Admissions :: USNA if I chose and findd some basic information there.



I'm tracking with the rest of your explanation, and agree with some of it, but this is messed up. You could go find information if you chose? Guys are spending a lot of time to help you and you just admitted that you didn't even try to find basic information.

I won't beat this dead horse, but you aren't doing yourself any favors.

Good luck.


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## Gurahiyi (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm inclined to admit I am wrong, you are correct. I should be making a more diligent effort to find out what information I can, and relying on the community for that which I cannot.  I appreciate greatly the time and effort the individuals on this site have spent helping me. I will be sure to correct that behavior.


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