# Starter pistol for the kids?



## Dame (Apr 7, 2011)

What do you guys think of this? The first thing that came to my mind was a starter pistol for the boys.

*New .22 LR Caliber M-9 Lookalike*


> MKS Distributing/Chiappa Firearms, Dayton OH, _April 2011_-Chiappa Firearms débuts its new M-9 (9mm lookalike) semi-auto pistol in .22 Long Rifle caliber.
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## fox1371 (Apr 7, 2011)

Wouldn't be a bad choice.  Take a look at the Walther P22 as well.  I think they only cost around $300 if I remember correctly. It's a little bit smaller than the M9-22 so it will be much easier for them to be able to manipulate with their hand.  It states that the M9-22 is the same size as the M9, so it may be a little difficult for them to work the safety with one hand.


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## Dame (Apr 7, 2011)

Fox,
My boys' hands are bigger than mine, LOL! That was one of the reasons I wondered about this particular handgun. If the size gets them used to a 9mm, and the rounds are the same as the .22 rifle everyone starts with, maybe it would give them a good feel for the real deal later.  But that lil' .22 looks like something _*I*_ could handle.  My .40 fits my hands very nicely (Kahr PM40) because it's made smaller to be a CCW.  But I have to admit, it's not "fun" to shoot. It's for serious self protection.


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## HOLLiS (Apr 7, 2011)

Probably some q's:

Age:

Shooting experience:

Ability to follow instructions and maturity:

Adult supervision:

Any auto feed fire arm is more riskier than a bolt gun or a revolver when it comes to safety.  There are some really nice .22LR revolvers, that would give a life time of service and fun.

BTW, .22lr, is one of the most lethal calibers out there. Don't let it's size fool you.


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## Dame (Apr 7, 2011)

HOLLiS said:


> Probably some q's:
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> Age:  19/12
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Thank you so much HOLLiS.  This is exactly what I need to consider.


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## KBar666 (Apr 7, 2011)

In my opinion you can't go wrong with a Ruger Mark III or one of their variants. I've used them and really like'em plus they have a cool look. They look lots like a Luger


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## Headshot (Apr 7, 2011)

How about getting them started with some NRA youth programs first so no matter what you get them it will be right.  Set the standard first and then introduce the tools.  My 2

BTW, Hollis is right!.....or was that Howard Johnson?  Anyway, get them somewhere in a program so they can see what other youth their age are using. And they'll get to try a few things for free before you go paying for a $200 paperweight.

Give the governor a harrumph!


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## HOLLiS (Apr 7, 2011)

As Headshot mentioned,  NRA youth programs.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 7, 2011)

Absolutely get them involved in the NRA, CMP, or state shooting association.

I would start them on a .22 cal revolver or look at some of the .22 cal target pistols out on the market. That’s if you want a dedicated .22 caliber firearm, other options would be to take an existing pistol and buy a .22 caliber conversion kit for it (1911, 92FS, Glock, SIG, HK ect,ect).

The conversion kit allows a person to use the same grip, trigger and in most cases sights picture/alignment as they normal caliber of the pistol. I think this is a big bonus for younger and older people who are getting into shooting or looking to shoot more affordably. You could start your boy’s on the .22 conversion and as they age, and show discipline/proficiency you can move them up to the bigger caliber, without having to change what they have already learned.

Most shooting clubs will allow juniors to shoot a .22 conversion kit in competition. I highly recommend competition with younger people b/c it normally captures their interest and brings out their competitiveness. Instead of having a kiddo who goes out and shoots once a month/year  (for fun) and retains very little skill, you could end up with a kiddo who shoots daily/weekly and becomes dominate in the sport.


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## mbw722 (Apr 7, 2011)

Some very good points have been made and if you will allow I'd like to mention a few others.  First a little background so you know where I come from.  Active 7th SF in 80's, short stint with 12th and currently in 19th at Camp Bullis (SA, TX).  Cop in Abilene, TX since 89 on SWAT since 93.  CHL  instuctor since 97 and father of two girls.

Proper instruction should be the basis for any firearms exposure.  But be careful about who you allow to instructor your child.  I have since many fakes, quacks and "know it alls" who use their programs as a means to inflate their own egos.  This will automatically turn a child into the "ignore" mode.  Do not underestimate your own ability to teach your child.  It allows for maximum instructor to student ratio, maximizes your use of time and is great for the parent - child relationship.  Such topics as "Safe handling and storage" and basic marksmanship are not rocket science and can be conducted safely in the home.  I did so with both of my daughters and they loved it.  It removed the mystical aura of "guns" and impressed upon them the responsibility of gun ownership from an early age.  So don't sell yourself short.  If you are comfortable with your own abilities, prepare a simple lesson plan and go for it.

On the subject of a firearm, don't neccesarily wait until you have taught the entire course as once again the child will lose interest.  Decide on the firearm.  The three mentioned are good choices.  One more I would recommend would be the Sig-Sauer Mosquito.  It closely replicates the larger Sig pistols but in a smaller more child friendly size.  Use that firearm in your presentation to make the training more realistic.  The child getting to handle the actual firearm is a reward for attentiveness and positive performance and also serves to reinforce safe handling skills.

As you know, with the internet, sources of reference are almost endless.  Just ensure that your material is from a reputable source.  Once your child is thoroughly adept in the basics you can either continue commensurate with your knowledge, skill and ability or seek out a reputable third party for further training and education.  If done safely and with the proper attitude a foundation can be laid for a lifetime of safe firearm ownership, recreational use and most importantly, personal protection.


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## Dame (Apr 8, 2011)

mbw722 said:


> Some very good points have been made and if you will allow I'd like to mention a few others...


Good advice, and with one of the boys it will work.

There are other issues with my youngest that have me sitting on the fence as far as training him with firearms at this point. I have a long road ahead of me with him and all of this advice is not only appreciated but taken to heart.

Thanks guys.


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## AWP (Apr 9, 2011)

Ruger and Browning both make excellent pistols and I think Ruger still makes the 22/ 45 which replicates the grip of a 1911. As others have stated, I would start with the NRA programs first and JAB has an excellent suggestion in a Glock conversion kit. Mom can shoot the full size and the kids can start with the .22 until they are mature enough for something larger.


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## Chopstick (Apr 9, 2011)

Dame said:


> There are other issues with my youngest that have me sitting on the fence as far as training him with firearms at this point. I have a long road ahead of me with him


As a mother this statement gives me pause.  If you have any doubt in your mind over the child's ability to handle firearms and appreciate the responsibility and consequences of said firearms..then the answer is no.  And I wouldnt even have them in the home.  That is just my 2 pennies.


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## HOLLiS (Apr 9, 2011)

Chopstick said:


> As a mother this statement gives me pause.  If you have any doubt in your mind over the child's ability to handle firearms and appreciate the responsibility and consequences of said firearms..then the answer is no.  And I wouldnt even have them in the home.  That is just my 2 pennies.




Chop, that is probably very sage advice.


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## Dame (Apr 9, 2011)

It's a thought process that goes on every day. He's been very respectful about firearms and never has shown any inclination toward any wrong-doing. But we are overly cautious with him anyway. Thanks Chop.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 9, 2011)

Mbw722 hit the nail on the head with Instructor’s; A LOT of people are misrepresenting themselves as trainers/instructors out there. Just b/c they have a certification/license, does not mean they know how to teach or that they are any good at it.

This is not just for you Dame, but the entire moms/dads who are out there reading.

On the issue of children, they should always be supervised and any firearms in the home should be secured properly. Gun lock, trigger lock, gun safe, ect. Too many children have died due to lack of supervision and lack of security of a firearm. However, I will say that proper education eliminates a majority of the concerns (not all, but a lot of them). If my 3 year old daughter can be safe with a firearm than I am pretty sure anyone can. Proper training is the key!

Most NRA instructors are closely scrutinized prior to receiving an instructor endorsement from the NRA regional training counselor. That does not mean they are all good at it, but most of them get the safety stuff down pretty good. Some basic things to look for in an instructor/trainer:
·         NRA firearm safety Instructor cert + 2-3 years of verifiable instruction experience through the NRA.
·         USPSA/IDPA/IPSC certified range safety officer, those guys get safety.
·         Stay away from individuals who cannot provide prior class history (sign in roster, test results ect).
·         Stay away from the “I was a cop/service member” types unless they can provide proof of instructor/training experience. Just b/c they wore/carried a firearm does not mean they know what they are doing, much less know how to teach what’s right. And that goes for the people claiming SOF backgrounds as well, vet them and think it through, just b/c they were an PV2 Ranger for all of 4 months does not mean they know shit (look for someone with roughly 8 consecutive years in combat arms/SOF with time as a trainer).
·         Competitive shooters are normally the best skilled in performance and instruction, but that doesn’t mean just any competitor. Look for people who have been a competitor in the top 10 level consistently over several years.
·         If they do not carry general liability insurance, STAY AWAY! There is probably a really good reason why they don’t (not qualified, or proof of being negligent).
·         Look for classes with a 1 to 4 instructors to student ratio, some instructors can handle class sizes of 10 but most cannot. If the class is bigger than 6 students, they should have an assistant (if they know what they are doing and understand liability).

Lastly for you Dame, I will gladly come teach your sons, you or anyone else in your family free of charge when I have the ability to do so. I owe you and would consider it an honor to repay that debt in such a manner.


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## Dame (Apr 9, 2011)

JAB said:


> Lastly for you Dame, I will gladly come teach your sons, you or anyone else in your family free of charge when I have the ability to do so. I owe you and would consider it an honor to repay that debt in such a manner.


Funny you should say that. I was thinking that I wouldn't have to worry too much about WHO would be an instructor.
'Cuz, I know JAB!


_ETA: Nothing to repay. How do I repay YOU for our freedom?_


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## Chopstick (Apr 9, 2011)

The point about the instructor is so very relevant..case in point.  :eek:


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Apr 11, 2011)

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## Casimir (Apr 11, 2011)

I have the mosquito and I got it for my wife and I because of what was mentioned above about it being close in size to the full size sig pistols and because of the economy of shooting it versus 9mm, 40 and 45 ammo. I've had the pleasure of shooting the Walther P22's as well, but the sig feels a little more solid IMO. Haven't had a single problem with it yet, it's accurate and the ammo is cheap


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## Dame (Apr 11, 2011)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


I wanna be her when I grow up!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 11, 2011)

Before all you tards post your “I’d hit it” comments, Tori is only 15/16 years old. She has been shooting for awhile now, USPSA, IDPA, STEEL CHALLENGE. One of the best jr-woman shooters I have seen. I keep showing her videos to my wife as an excuse to why I keep spending an hour + with my daughter teaching her pistol safety/manipulations. And yes for all you 1911'ers out there, she is running a 45 ACP pistol better than you lol.


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## Dame (Apr 11, 2011)

JAB said:


> Before all you tards post your “I’d hit it” comments,...


Dude, Deuce is gone.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 11, 2011)

Dame said:


> Dude, Deuce is gone.



LMAO, Nice!


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Apr 11, 2011)

JAB said:


> One of the best jr-woman shooters I have seen...



Damn, that was impressive!


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 11, 2011)

LimaOscarSierraTango said:


> Damn, that was impressive!



check these out,

http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronnonaka#p/u/7/C8t1tp73Qa8

http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronnonaka#p/u/2/7KnBDIbgbMk

http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronnonaka#p/u/6/dGmKzOYuz6o

Not bad for a girl that has not even been to prom yet...:eek:


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Apr 11, 2011)

My goal is for me and my green 1911 to shoot as well as or better than her and her purple 1911...  This will take a LOT of time and money. LOL!

Edit - Wait a sec...  Is the purple one a Glock?


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2011)

Yeah, Tori runs a purple colored Glock 34.

For other women shooters, most probably better than most of us on this board, go Google and YouTube search for Women of USPSA.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 11, 2011)

She runs a G34 in purple and 1911 in SS. But yeah dude, hope you reload or have deep-deep-deep pockets. Pro-Am and most SCSA stuff people will normally run a minor load that keeps the gun running flat. I think she shoots for her dad, who runs a custom gunsmith shop (may be wrong on that though). So I am sure she is getting mucho training ammo and her gus tweaked here and there. She has been shooting practical matches for a few years now, but still crazy to think she is only about to be 16 if she has not already turned 16. I hope she stays with the sport.


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## LimaOscarSierraTango (Apr 11, 2011)

That's awesome, and the rest of those women are damn impressive too!


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## AWP (Apr 11, 2011)

I saw an interview with Kippi Leatham. She can run a single stack, but she is entirely too perky. Lay of the sugar, Kippi. :)

Considering that she's married to Rob Leatham....she kind of has a decent coach. ;)


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## AWP (Apr 18, 2011)

FWIW, Tori Nonaka won the Ladies' Production Division at the USPSA Area 6 championships this past weekend and finished 21st out of 81 total shooters in Production.


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## Casimir (Apr 18, 2011)

damn, thats badass. if/when I have kids I'd like to get them into that.


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## ben (Apr 18, 2011)

GSG makes a nice looking .22 1911. I have seen good reviews on it but haven't actually tried one out yet. As for your 19 year old, my first pistol was a Springfield Milspec 1911 not too long ago. Perhaps you were looking for an answer that had more to do with training, but I have no experience with that other than range time familiarizing myself with the weapons.


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## Dame (Apr 18, 2011)

Well, I told him it would be a gift after he got through boot. He's so excited to have his own, he may tell me what he wants. He woke up the other day saying what a great dream he had. He'd gotten his pistol and was target shooting. LOL.


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