# Some fast rope pics of ladders



## Brandon4685 (Oct 20, 2012)

Just some pics I know only a couple people have thought ya'll might like


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## AWP (Oct 20, 2012)

Brandon, Those are some great photos, but please post an Introduction in the correct sub-forum before posting again.
Thank you.


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## AKkeith (Oct 20, 2012)

And that is incredibly close to the ground to fast rope.


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## Brandon4685 (Oct 20, 2012)

All we were doing was some rope master quals for the guys my shop was busy that day we roped for them


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## fox1371 (Oct 20, 2012)

Ladders?  Are you trying to refer to "elevators," or is there some term that I'm not familiar with when it comes to fast roping?


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## Brandon4685 (Oct 20, 2012)

Same thing


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## fox1371 (Oct 20, 2012)

Okay, new to me. 

You should get yourself vetted on the site.


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## shortbrownguy (Oct 21, 2012)

Brandon4685 said:


> Same thing


Not the same thing...

SBG sends


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## Brandon4685 (Oct 21, 2012)

Anyways I have a couple more if y'all would like to see them


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## pardus (Oct 21, 2012)

Brandon4685 said:


> Anyways I have a couple more if y'all would like to see them



Sure, post them up!


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## Brandon4685 (Oct 21, 2012)




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## Marauder06 (Oct 21, 2012)

Nice pics!  Did you take them yourself?


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## Brandon4685 (Oct 21, 2012)

No I didn't take these a guy from our shop took these I was on the bird


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## QC (Oct 22, 2012)

Fuck, you could jump that distance. Try a Swiss seat with 9mm manilla and a carabina at #1.


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## dknob (Oct 22, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> And that is incredibly close to the ground to fast rope.


 Have you ever fast roped?


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## AWP (Oct 22, 2012)

Brandon,
Were all of those taken up at Campbell? Looking at the trees it must have been kind of a cold day(s).


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## dknob (Oct 22, 2012)

Man I MISS Rotary Wing in FCKY!!! I was always so stoked when we put it on the training calendar. I love everything about helos and doing HAFs. I miss fast roping (from a helo, not that terrifying death trap mock up behind the PT field at Benning).

No such thing as too low for fast rope btw. My first and only combat rope in Iraq was from 15 feet (maybe!) and in all that weight and in those conditions.. it can be pretty difficult.


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## AKkeith (Oct 22, 2012)

dknob said:


> Have you ever fast roped?


Im a Helicopter Rope Suspension Techniques Master. So yes I have a lot, from many platforms.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 22, 2012)

In contrast to AKkeith, I have never fast roped, and I have never rappelled from a helo.  When I did Air Assault School our rappel days got weathered out, and the whole time I was in the 101st I was in a TOW platoon or on battalion staff, we always did the slingload thing.


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## goon175 (Oct 22, 2012)

yeah, there are some ropes ive done that I swear the rope was just a formality, we were so close to the ground. Also, I have never done a long rope before, I think my highest was probably 45 feet or so, but some guys have done some 90 footers. Can't imagine how a guys hands would feel after that, even with roping gloves on.


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## shortbrownguy (Oct 22, 2012)

goon175 said:


> yeah, there are some ropes ive done that I swear the rope was just a formality, we were so close to the ground. Also, I have never done a long rope before, I think my highest was probably 45 feet or so, but some guys have done some 90 footers. Can't imagine how a guys hands would feel after that, even with roping gloves on.


 
Roped 70 Feet onto a roof top. Halfway down my hands were screaming to let go. Way over rated and unnecessary unless there is a need for the bird to avoid power lines, trees, buildings, etc.

SBG sends.


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## goon175 (Oct 22, 2012)

Yeah, powerlines or going through a damn triple canopy forest are the only reason I can think of. At that height, it would almost make more sense to just rapell, but thats not exactly condusive to landing on the x, which is the main reason you would use a rope insertion.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 22, 2012)

Fast roping through triple canopy turns into fast falling rather quickly.  I would rather rappel into canopy and would almost always rather land on the X than fast rope given the ability.  Fast roping loses its attraction pretty quickly, or at least it did for me. FTR, 90' ropes suck ass.


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## AKkeith (Oct 22, 2012)

The whole name of the game is get everyone out of the bird and on the deck as quick as possible and get the bird of of there. So Fast roping from 8ft is almost always impractical. It would be quicker to touch land and everyone jump out. The only time this would need to be used would be on a very rocky/bouldery surface. Even on steep surfaces a CH-46 can do a Main gear land, where they just touch the back ramp and tires down and have the nose still up in the air. 
Then rappelling takes so dang long. Even with experienced guys and HRST master it is way more practical to use another method if available.


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## shortbrownguy (Oct 22, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> The whole name of the game is get everyone out of the bird and on the deck as quick as possible and get the bird of of there. So Fast roping from 8ft is almost always impractical. It would be quicker to touch land and everyone jump out. The only time this would need to be used would be on a very rocky/bouldery surface. Even on steep surfaces a CH-46 can do a Main gear land, where they just touch the back ramp and tires down and have the nose still up in the air.
> Then rappelling takes so dang long. Even with experienced guys and HRST master it is way more practical to use another method if available.


 
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to bash you in any way.
Are your comments based on real world mission experience, or what you have been told/ seen in training?

I can tell you many situations where a 10-15 rope got the job done more effectively then a 45'er.

SBG sends.


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## AKkeith (Oct 22, 2012)

Real world experience. Yes sometimes lower is better. Just if your practicing to fast rope you might as well actually practice fast roping. 8 feet there is barely any rope. I mean I guess if you are practicing for a specific mission landing then that makes sense.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Oct 22, 2012)

The only experience I have is on a FRI tower hanging upside down like a monkey on a tree limb, with some dick yelling at me and twice out of a UH60. One was Hollywood and the other the butt of my M4 about knocked me out (caught me in the back of the head). I decided that I did not like fast roping very quick, especially when a bunch of gaurd soldiers are running the show.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 22, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> Real world experience. Yes sometimes lower is better. Just if your practicing to fast rope you might as well actually practice fast roping. 8 feet there is barely any rope. I mean I guess if you are practicing for a specific mission landing then that makes sense.


Fast roping that sort of distance is mostly for rooftops. Yes in an open field touching down is faster and that's what is done real world. Elevators are for training. If you can fast rope 15 ft, you can rope 60. This also helps prevent people from getting hurt.


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## AKkeith (Oct 22, 2012)

JAB said:


> The only experience I have is on a FRI tower hanging upside down like a monkey on a tree limb, with some dick yelling at me and twice out of a UH60. One was Hollywood and the other the butt of my M4 about knocked me out (caught me in the back of the head). I decided that I did not like fast roping very quick, especially when a bunch of gaurd soldiers are running the show.


Haha yup. Going out of the hell hole with full gear and rifle can get real interesting. I've seen a couple SAW gunners get jammed in there, barrel on one side and buttstock on the other.


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## amlove21 (Oct 22, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> Going out of the hell hole with full gear and rifle can get real interesting. .


 Working that issue currently. LOVE those 53's though pause not.

I have done my fair share of 90 footers and I have had enough, thank you. I prefer low as practical for real world, low as allowable for training- 30 foot is usually the standard, but every once in a while someone wants to see if gravity still works from 90 feet. It always does.

I'm a FRIES Master, and I would err on the side of low vs. high just about every day of the week, but there most certainly are situtations we could "what if" to go both directions.


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## amlove21 (Oct 22, 2012)

Freefalling said:


> Brandon,
> Were all of those taken up at Campbell? Looking at the trees it must have been kind of a cold day(s).


 


dknob said:


> Man I MISS Rotary Wing in FCKY!!!


 
LOL, which one was it dag nabbit! I'll go with Free and say Campbell. Looks like it!


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## Ranger Psych (Oct 22, 2012)

Seriously, for fastrope training?    the sequence of things doesn't change so it doesn't matter if it's 5 feet or 50 feet. time calls, toss the rope, check your checks, let people go.  Shit's the same. only difference being if an error is made and someone fraps in, it's shorter so you're falling slower when you hit.

And real world?  While pilots say they can do johnny highspeed maneuvers, unless the mission dictates the absolute necessity of doing main gear or single gear/skid landings.... keep the safety factor. 10 feet more clearance can make the difference of that rug on the roof flapping around....or flying off to meet a tail rotor.  Let alone clearances for the airframe against hard objects.


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## DA SWO (Oct 22, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> Real world experience. Yes sometimes lower is better. Just if your practicing to fast rope you might as well actually practice fast roping. 8 feet there is barely any rope. I mean I guess if you are practicing for a specific mission landing then that makes sense.


What is the goal, teaching FAST Roping, or qualifying someone as a FRIES Master; if the latter, then 8ft=80ft as the result is the same for the students.


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## AKkeith (Oct 23, 2012)

I'd have to disagree that 8 ft is the same as 80 ft. Especially depending on the platform. Learning to deal with the heights, the length of the slide and rotor wash are all things that during training would be valuable to practice and you can't get at 8 ft. Rotor wash especially on the MV-22 is just outrageous. There's a whole different scheme of manuvers when going down on that platform.


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## DA SWO (Oct 23, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> I'd have to disagree that 8 ft is the same as 80 ft. Especially depending on the platform. Learning to deal with the heights, the length of the slide and rotor wash are all things that during training would be valuable to practice and you can't get at 8 ft. Rotor wash especially on the MV-22 is just outrageous. There's a whole different scheme of manuvers when going down on that platform.


Not if your staying on the platform and just learning how to put people out, or just chucking people out for currency.


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## surgicalcric (Oct 23, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> you can't get at 8 ft. Rotor wash especially on the MV-22 is just outrageous..


 
First off I cant believe fastroping from a CV22 was even mentioned...  The idea is ridiculous to begin with.

The approach of that aircraft onto target is so slow any bad guys in the area will have enough time to book an exfil flight on expedia before you get over target not to mention it being a huge target for SAF/SAM due to its inability to maneuver quickly on approach/in hover. Additionally, the rotorwash created makes the use of the CV22 impractical and foolhardy for FR insertion or recovery/rescue over water unless drowning the victim is part of the recovery plan.

MOO after some 20 ropes from one is that the only people who should FR from that hunk-o-shit should be the generals whose pockets were lined when it went into production.


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## fox1371 (Oct 23, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Fast roping from a CV22 is ridiculous to begin with. The approach of that aircraft onto target is so slow any bad guys in the area will have enough time to book an exfil flight on expedia before you get over target. Furthermore, the rotorwash makes it impractical and foolhardy to use for FR insertion.
> 
> The only people who should FR from that hunk-o-shit should be the generals pockets that were lined when it went into production.


How do you really feel about it?! Haha.

I completely agree though. We used them in a raid one time, and needless to say it wasn't nearly as successful as it could have been...

ETA:  We didn't fast rope out of them, we landed and ran out.  Either way, approach time was way too slow and the HVT that we were after got away during our approach.


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## amlove21 (Oct 23, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> Fast roping from a CV22 is ridiculous to begin with. The approach of that aircraft onto target is so slow any bad guys in the area will have enough time to book an exfil flight on expedia before you get over target. Furthermore, the rotorwash makes it impractical and foolhardy to use for FR insertion.
> 
> The only people who should FR from that hunk-o-shit should be the generals pockets that were lined when it went into production.


 AMEN to that. F that platform.


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## dknob (Oct 23, 2012)

Just about every house on here calls for a Fast Rope infil if we had to get men on the ground. The HAF work horse for Rangers in Iraq was the 60, not the 47 and not often we'd get little birds to ride on. The rope wouldn't be more than 8 feet long in just about every building in that picture.


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## dknob (Oct 23, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> LOL, which one was it dag nabbit! I'll go with Free and say Campbell. Looks like it!


 FCKY is Campbell! lol


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## amlove21 (Oct 23, 2012)

dknob said:


> FCKY is Campbell! lol


That was my funny troll/joke. Get it? By the old standard of, "If you have to explain the joke, then no, it was not funny.", this was not funn.y


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## dknob (Oct 23, 2012)

LOL your explanation was funnier


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## amlove21 (Oct 23, 2012)

dknob said:


> LOL your explanation was funnier


Yea, I am pretty stupid. That's a well documented fact. Some stuff just sounds better in your head....


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## AKkeith (Oct 23, 2012)

surgicalcric said:


> fastroping from a CV22... The idea is ridiculous to begin with.


I agree. But Ive done it multiple times. I'll post some pics.


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## Grimfury160 (Oct 23, 2012)

Brandon4685 said:


> View attachment 6956 View attachment 6957 View attachment 6958 View attachment 6959 View attachment 6956 View attachment 6957 View attachment 6958 View attachment 6959
> 
> Just some pics I know only a couple people have thought ya'll might like


 OP just popping in to post some stupid nice photos, I miss FTCKY the most. I went to AASLT school at Campbell in January 02 and was nice and cold under the rotar wash.......nipples were rock solid.


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## Grimfury160 (Oct 23, 2012)




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## AKkeith (Oct 23, 2012)

These photos were taking from my headcam video so the resolution really suffered. But just that angle on the rope is crazy, and this is with 2 guys laying on the rope attempting to keep it straight.


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## dknob (Oct 23, 2012)

That dude is roping with Oakley assault gloves.

Legit.


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## TLDR20 (Oct 23, 2012)

A team in my company did FRIES out of a CV-22 at Eglin, cool pics not the coolest stories.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 23, 2012)

dknob said:


> That dude is roping with Oakley assault gloves.
> 
> Legit.


I remember doing elevators and I was standing in line to get on the Bird. We'd been there for a second and the bird was whining up. At some point I felt naked and realized my gloves were still sitting on my kit a good bit away. I hesitated seriously contemplating getting on without them rather than get the wrath from whoever for delaying the elevators or missing it all together. I was just thinking, "Fuck it I'll make sure to bite down real hard with my feet, it's only 15ft and it's without kit." I finally thought better and ran to get my gloves and made it with time to spare. Nobody said anything to me. I'm not sure how fucked up my hands would have been.


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## goon175 (Oct 23, 2012)

Pretty fucked up. There was a brand new RTO from B co (i think) who got on the bird and was actually in the air before he realized he didn't have any gloves. He said 'fuck it' and went down. By the time he reached the bottom he no longer had skin on his palms. seriously. I think they were doing an actual training mission though, it wasn't just elevators if I remember correctly. There was also a friend of mine on my first deployment who did a 70 ft. rope on target, and only had his shooting gloves on, not anticipating such a long rope. His hands were pretty fucked up.


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## SkrewzLoose (Oct 23, 2012)

This has turned out to be a hugely informative thread.  I'll never fast rope onto/out of anything, but the information is very interesting, none the less.


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## amlove21 (Oct 24, 2012)

goon175 said:


> Pretty fucked up. There was a brand new RTO from B co (i think) who got on the bird and was actually in the air before he realized he didn't have any gloves. He said 'fuck it' and went down. By the time he reached the bottom he no longer had skin on his palms. seriously. I think they were doing an actual training mission though, it wasn't just elevators if I remember correctly. There was also a friend of mine on my first deployment who did a 70 ft. rope on target, and only had his shooting gloves on, not anticipating such a long rope. His hands were pretty fucked up.


We had a guy do something very similar. Had to go out with the first bird leaving the X.


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## BillyC1636 (Oct 24, 2012)

Any recommendations for Fast Rope Gloves? Awesome pictures BTW


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## Rabid Badger (Oct 24, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> We had a guy do something very similar. Had to go out with the first bird leaving the X.


 
For a unit executing serious training for a real world rope and/or training/qualifying a FRM, this 8ft practice/cert FR is BS - IMHO.

"Our" standard is/was 15-20ft hollywood, then 30-40ft kit/weapon, then 60-80ft kit/weapon/ruck/breaching tools. No ifs, ands, or buts.....backward planning sequence equals time for rehearsals and rehearsals save lives, hands, blisters, broken ankles, etc.

I've read this thread with interest and held the tongue, but a past experience negated all cutting corners in '02.

Comalapa, El Salvador, '02 I watched a SEAL Asslt Force Cmdr burn in from '90ft and *DIE*. Asslt force practice FR went straight to 90ft, no elevators, no bird circling the FRS to practice time warnings or crew chief hand and arm signals ~ straight to 90ft with all kit to include breaching tools.

Asslt Force Cmdr was the 1st roper out of the bird, sitting in the door with a 120 in his lap. FRM gave throw rope, crew chief thought the FRM said cut rope *(because they had not practiced)*. Cmdr reached for the rope at the *exact moment the crew chief released the rope* from the MH60 = 90ft freefall.

Practice like you're doing it for fucking real or you're wasting your time and putting your troops lives in danger. The aircrew will be as lazy as you are if you let them. Own that LZ and train for real. 8ft is not normally realistic, but if all you ever train FR at is 8ft, then what happens when you hit a 60ft'er or a 90ft'er? Shit changes drastically on an OBJ instantaneously.

2c


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## Rabid Badger (Oct 24, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> We had a guy do something very similar. Had to go out with the first bird leaving the X.


 
For a unit executing serious training for a real world rope and/or training/qualifying a FRM, this 8ft practice/cert FR is BS - IMHO.

"Our" standard is/was 15-20ft hollywood, then 30-40ft kit/weapon, then 60-80ft kit/weapon/ruck/breaching tools. No ifs, ands, or buts.....backward planning sequence equals time for rehearsals and rehearsals save lives, hands, blisters, broken ankles, etc.

I've read this thread with interest and held the tongue, but a past experience negated all cutting corners in '02.

Comalapa, El Salvador, '02 I watched a SEAL Asslt Force Cmdr burn in from '90ft and *DIE*. Asslt force practice FR went straight to 90ft, no elevators, no bird circling the FRS to practice time warnings or crew chief hand and arm signals ~ straight to 90ft with all kit to include breaching tools.

Asslt Force Cmdr was the 1st roper out of the bird, sitting in the door with a 120 in his lap. FRM gave throw rope, crew chief thought the FRM said cut rope *(because they had not practiced)*. Cmdr reached for the rope at the *exact moment the crew chief released the rope* from the MH60 = 90ft freefall.

Practice like you're doing it for fucking real or you're wasting your time and putting your troops lives in danger. The aircrew will be as lazy as you are if you let them. Own that LZ and train for real. 8ft is not normally realistic, but if all you ever train FR at is 8ft, then what happens when you hit a 60ft'er or a 90ft'er? Shit changes drastically on an OBJ instantaneously.

2c


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm confused. You're argument with your example of a SEAL dying basically reinforces doing elevators at 8 ft(usually 15-20ft). I still think if you can do 20ft you can do 60ft and injuring just gets extrapolated at 60ft. I mean by your words we should be doing mass tac jumps at 600-800ft too. I think what should have been taken away from that incident is you don't do rehearsals at a ridiculous height. It's also redundant and time consuming with limited assets(helicopters). The process of the FRM are the same whether you're at 20ft or 60ft. If you're really concerned about guys fucking up on a 60ft, you can go to the tower. Typical FR cert is tower then elevators then you go real-world over at Bragg or whatever. I'll concede making sure to do elevators with all your equipment is important. I've never done a 90ft'er personally, but I'm pretty sure nothing would change other than needing thicker gloves. Guys not having the right gloves on a real-world mission is an issue.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 24, 2012)

Also, what I think is more important than rope length is doing it at night.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 24, 2012)

Here's like no shit 6-8 ft of rope onto a rooftop.


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## dknob (Oct 24, 2012)

RIP Cmdr Oswald - http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/For-Navy-SEAL-who-died-in-El-Salvador-family-1095007.php

That's a shitty story man.. I do agree that training should start at a lower height and move its way up gradually so guys can begin to see differences from 20 feet to 40 feet, and so on, and make the necessary adjustments. Going from 20 feet to 90 feet with no training in between just might be one of the dumbest and most dangerous thing I've ever heard.

*"Our" standard is/was 15-20ft hollywood, then 30-40ft kit/weapon, then 60-80ft kit/weapon/ruck/breaching tools"*

Wouldn't it make sense if it was 15-20 full kit, then 30-40 full kit, then 60-70 hollywood followed by full kit, then a full kit at 90 ft.

Hell.. what's the point of a 90 ft fast rope. What situation calls for it? Wasn't Mogadishu like 60-70?

I've never done a 90 foot rope, nor could I imagine doing one with a ruck sack. I would throw my ruck sack out the helo before I roped with it to be honest. I don't believe in incredibly dangerous training for that 1 in 200,000 chance we'd do it. Which in my eyes : a 90 foot fast rope with full gear and ruck is exactly that.


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## DA SWO (Oct 24, 2012)

dknob said:


> RIP Cmdr Oswald - http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/For-Navy-SEAL-who-died-in-El-Salvador-family-1095007.php
> 
> That's a shitty story man.. I do agree that training should start at a lower height and move its way up gradually so guys can begin to see differences from 20 feet to 40 feet, and so on, and make the necessary adjustments. Going from 20 feet to 90 feet with no training in between just might be one of the dumbest and most dangerous thing I've ever heard.
> 
> ...


I semi-burned in from 90 feet.  Rope slipped away from my feet and I squeezed for dear life.
I have 2 bulging disks in my lower back as a result; two weeks later a Controller doing the same exercise burned in from 22 feet.  

I have back pain, he is paralysed from chest down.

I really think crawl, walk, jog, run is the best method.


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## amlove21 (Oct 24, 2012)

RB said:


> For a unit executing serious training for a real world rope and/or training/qualifying a FRM, this 8ft practice/cert FR is BS - IMHO.


 I agree. I think you need to do a 90 footer a couple times and realize a 90 is most certainley NOT a 30. Hell, sometimes what the pilot tells you is going to be 30 in the brief looks a LOT like 50 during the rope. That stuff happens in the real world.

Is there a middle ground on the "safety/realistic training" side of the discussion? Sure. But the most complex problem you have seen should NOT be presented during a real world mission. You should have already practiced it.

Thanks for the inputs, RB.



Brian1/75 said:


> Also, what I think is more important than rope length is doing it at night.


 
I'll agree with this...



Brian1/75 said:


> I'm confused. You're argument with your example of a SEAL dying basically reinforces doing elevators at 8 ft(usually 15-20ft). I still think if you can do 20ft you can do 60ft and injuring just gets extrapolated at 60ft. I mean by your words we should be doing mass tac jumps at 600-800ft too. I think what should have been taken away from that incident is you don't do rehearsals at a ridiculous height. It's also redundant and time consuming with limited assets(helicopters). The process of the FRM are the same whether you're at 20ft or 60ft. If you're really concerned about guys fucking up on a 60ft, you can go to the tower. Typical FR cert is tower then elevators then you go real-world over at Bragg or whatever. I'll concede making sure to do elevators with all your equipment is important. I've never done a 90ft'er personally, but I'm pretty sure nothing would change other than needing thicker gloves..


 
Not so much this. Using your own reasoning, I just kicked you off of any team that might have to do more than a 20 foot fast rope. Part of that training (however dangerous) is for the commanders and others in leadership to be able to stand up, when asked, and say "Yes, we can do that mission, and it will be a success, and we will not kill our men trying to make it happen."

I HAVE done a 90, with a ruck, and a weapon. From a helicopter, at night. Not a tower. So have the guys on my team. That's not to beat my chest, or to think I am better than you/those that haven't, because I don't. When asked, beyond a shadow of a doubt- "Can you men do this mission, no matter what you're faced with?" I can say stand up to The Man and say, "Yes. Send my team."

If you or your men have never done it, you don't know what's going to happen, and simulation only gets you so much. That's not a shot, just my opinion. I think you need to do that stuff. As safely as possible.


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## dknob (Oct 24, 2012)

Combat rope. Or beat your face.


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## AKkeith (Oct 25, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> I'm confused. You're argument with your example of a SEAL dying basically reinforces doing elevators at 8 ft(usually 15-20ft). I still think if you can do 20ft you can do 60ft and injuring just gets extrapolated at 60ft. I mean by your words we should be doing mass tac jumps at 600-800ft too. I think what should have been taken away from that incident is you don't do rehearsals at a ridiculous height. It's also redundant and time consuming with limited assets(helicopters). The process of the FRM are the same whether you're at 20ft or 60ft. If you're really concerned about guys fucking up on a 60ft, you can go to the tower. Typical FR cert is tower then elevators then you go real-world over at Bragg or whatever. I'll concede making sure to do elevators with all your equipment is important. I've never done a 90ft'er personally, but I'm pretty sure nothing would change other than needing thicker gloves. Guys not having the right gloves on a real-world mission is an issue.


Im confused on your logic on how doing less means you can do more?
If you can do more than yes you can do less.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 25, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> Im confused on your logic on how doing less means you can do more?
> If you can do more than yes you can do less.


Because shit doesn't magically happen when you add length to the rope. All of the risk is reaching out to the rope and utilizing proper technique whether it's 20 ft or 60ft. Once you have your feet and hands on the damn thing weighted down with your maximum combat weight at night nothing else matters as long as you have the proper gloves and the proper technique. Unless guys are freezing at the door because of the added height it's a non-issue. And honestly I'm not worried about it when we have guys going out a jump door at 1200ft AGL. What variables change because you added 40ft of rope? The amount of heat generated by friction. That's it. You don't accelerate down the rope faster. The technique doesn't change. You're not suddenly having to rope blind.


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## goon175 (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm not gonna lie, I would be pissing my pants if I had to do a 90 ft rope from a 47 (especially if you were the first one out), lots of room for little errors to become fatal since you are reaching outside of the bird for the rope. If it was a 60 where you can get both your hands and feet on the rope before leaving the aircraft, then that would be no big deal.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 25, 2012)

goon175 said:


> I'm not gonna lie, I would be pissing my pants if I had to do a 90 ft rope from a 47 (especially if you were the first one out), lots of room for little errors to become fatal since you are reaching outside of the bird for the rope. If it was a 60 where you can get both your hands and feet on the rope before leaving the aircraft, then that would be no big deal.


Well, I mean I'm not going to lie doing 60ft scared the shit out of me. Especially off the tower. There were no beams to hold on if I recall right and the rope didn't get pulled in towards the ramp, so you had to make a damn dedicated reach. After that going out an actual 47 or definitely a 60 was easy-peesy. Which reminds me, I'd argue doing elevators on a more 'difficult' airframe is more important than rope length.


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## Rabid Badger (Oct 25, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Which reminds me, I'd argue doing elevators on a more 'difficult' airframe is more important than rope length.


 
Hmmm, if all you got out of my post was rope length, well, :-" so be it.

If 60ft scared the shit out of you at night on a tower, 1/75- , where does your experience or advice hail from? 

Let's see - I taught FR at TAAS / FTCKY from '87-'90. FR was actually classified at that time....yup...~classified~. Firemen can slide down a pole but a rope is classified, go figure.

Seen a lot, done a lot, but don't agree with much at all in your posts. I'm allowed after 25 years of roping.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 25, 2012)

RB said:


> Hmmm, if all you got out of my post was rope length, well, :-" so be it.
> 
> If 60ft scared the shit out of you at night on a tower, 1/75- , where does your experience or advice hail from?
> 
> ...


I wasn't just arguing with you. The whole thing devolved into you got to rope 90 ft or you're not doing it right and roping less is pointless. You're right I guess I don't have the experience you have, but in my mind after combat equipment, visibility, and airframe, rope length is the least important with the most risk. I've roped 60ft out of a bird as well. I just find a tower scarier for the reasons I mentioned. And yeah I have a fear of heights when falling can mean my death. I just overcome it. I apologize if you look down on this.


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## AKkeith (Oct 25, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> Because shit doesn't magically happen when you add length to the rope. All of the risk is reaching out to the rope and utilizing proper technique whether it's 20 ft or 60ft. Once you have your feet and hands on the damn thing weighted down with your maximum combat weight at night nothing else matters as long as you have the proper gloves and the proper technique. Unless guys are freezing at the door because of the added height it's a non-issue. And honestly I'm not worried about it when we have guys going out a jump door at 1200ft AGL. What variables change because you added 40ft of rope? The amount of heat generated by friction. That's it. You don't accelerate down the rope faster. The technique doesn't change. You're not suddenly having to rope blind.


Rotorwash adds and you entirely miss out on stacking which is a much need skill with fast roping. Guys need to practice keeping and maintaining speed down the rope so when you are stacking and have the rope loaded with guys the bottom or middle guy doesn't start squeezing too hard and slow down and have everyone run down into him or guy up top start loosening up because hes heating up and run into the guy below him. Then landing from fast roping if you fall better start rolling quick or you have a rope full of guys landing on you.
If you never practice stacking you can't magically think you can stack when you need to or things will go wrong and people will get hurt.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 25, 2012)

AKkeith said:


> Rotorwash adds and you entirely miss out on stacking which is a much need skill with fast roping. Guys need to practice keeping and maintaining speed down the rope so when you are stacking and have the rope loaded with guys the bottom or middle guy doesn't start squeezing too hard and slow down and have everyone run down into him or guy up top start loosening up because hes heating up and run into the guy below him. Then landing from fast roping if you fall better start rolling quick or you have a rope full of guys landing on you.
> If you never practice stacking you can't magically think you can stack when you need to or things will go wrong and people will get hurt.


They do teach you how to adjust your speed as a technique. I also have to wonder the relevance of stacking pertaining to 90ft over 60ft since some people were so assured if you haven't done 90ft you can't say you can do it. The 75th has been doing towers then low-level elevators and then 60ft+ ropes onto target for a long time. They've also probably got more combat ropes than the SF Regiment or the Marine Corps. You can argue against my experience, but you can't argue against the experience of the institution. It still doesn't explain your original argument that their was no practical reason to rope at such a low level whether training or real world as you originally argued.



			
				AKKeith said:
			
		

> And that is incredibly close to the ground to fast rope....So Fast roping from 8ft is almost always impractical.


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## goon175 (Oct 25, 2012)

> FR was actually classified at that time....yup...~classified~. Firemen can slide down a pole but a rope is classified, go figure.


 
On a side note, it is very interesting what was considered OPSEC at one time, but isn't anymore. I can see why FRIES would be a classified infil method at that time though.


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## goon175 (Oct 25, 2012)

> They've also probably got more combat ropes than the SF Regiment or the Marine Corps.


 
Let's not get into a pissing match. We can debate training methodology for FRIES without getting into a "who's dick is bigger" contest. I understand what you are trying to get at, but a statement like that will devolve the conversation quickly. Not calling you out brother, just lookin' out for the good of the thread!


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## dknob (Oct 25, 2012)

Although we probably do have the most combat ropes :)

Combat rope check.

Push em out. Down... up!... down.. up!


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## AKkeith (Oct 25, 2012)

I still think there are usually better methods to insert than fast roping at 8ft but its all situation dictates. And its only an opinion we don't have to agree


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 25, 2012)

I was just trying to demonstrate the 75th might know what it's talking about pertaining to what's practical real-world or what training methods work despite someone's thumbs down to an entire Battalion.


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## Rabid Badger (Oct 26, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> I was just trying to demonstrate the 75th might know what it's talking about pertaining to what's practical real-world or what training methods work despite someone's thumbs down to an entire Battalion.


 
You seem to attempt to give us the perfect training environment and FRM's for the entire Ranger Regiment with that last post.....or am I just reading into your posts?

and as goon said.......no-one is negating or giving the "thumbs down" to the experience of any group, battalion, or regiment. I can say with certainty that the Ranger Regiment does not train at 8ft to qualify their FRM's or their meat-eaters. Go back and re-read. I/no-one ever said you had to go to altitude to be proficient, only that practice makes perfect...most of the time. You state that " the 75th might know what it's talking about pertaining to what's practical real-world", yet you negate what many of the 75th here on SS are saying to you. Check the profiles brother.

Reasons for 60-90:
1. HVI rollup Urban op, 3-4 story buildings GLE - FRS.
2. Mountain side A/C crash body/crypto recovery (mountains are 60 degree slope)
3. Disaster relief SPIES for casualties with FRS insertion for recovery

take your pic as to why you need to practice from 80 instead of 8, and adjust kit/weight as necessary. You do not want to be a casualty attempting to rescue a casualty or roll-up a bad guy.

I'm done here. Train as you fight. Good luck. RS-15-89.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 26, 2012)

I feel like we're arguing about nothing because apparently nobody is saying you have to go to altitude to be proficient and I never said their was no reason to go to 60-90 or that Regiment never trains from that altitude. I just think it's pointless and dangerous to do elevators from their. That is what this entire thread has been about: elevators at altitude.


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## Brian1/75 (Oct 26, 2012)

And I use the wrong there twice.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 26, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> And I use the wrong there twice.


 
:)  Brian, submit your Ranger School grad cert through the "vetting" tab, or have one of the SOF veterans here vouch for you, and we'll get you switched on to Verified SOF.  In addition to having a cool green tag, you can edit your posts.


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## Centermass (Oct 26, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> That was my funny troll/joke. Get it? By the old standard of, "If you have to explain the joke, then no, it was not funny.", this was not funn.y


 
Yeah, but this always is.....


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## amlove21 (Oct 26, 2012)

Centermass said:


> Yeah, but this always is.....


 FULL OF WIN. This is every COA in Africa, right now.


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## DA SWO (Oct 26, 2012)

Brian1/75 said:


> And I use the wrong there twice.


 
There, their, now; it'll be o.k.


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## Marauder06 (Oct 26, 2012)

Centermass said:


> Yeah, but this always is.....


 
I love that pic.  Last time I saw it was when those Israeli soldiers fastroped onto that Turkish ship bound for Palestine.


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## dknob (Oct 26, 2012)

hah, I chuckled at Dear Leader part


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## Marauder06 (Oct 26, 2012)

dknob said:


> hah, I chuckled at Dear Leader part


 
That's what he makes all of us call him now.  We also have to mod in 14-hour shifts six days a week.  It's terrible.


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## Grimfury160 (Oct 26, 2012)




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## AWP (Oct 26, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> That's what he makes all of us call him now. We also have to mod in 14-hour shifts six days a week. It's terrible.


 
Back to the pits, minion, back to the pits!


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## dknob (Oct 26, 2012)

Marauder06 said:


> That's what he makes all of us call him now. We also have to mod in 14-hour shifts six days a week. It's terrible.


 loL!!


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## ÉIREGOBRÁCH1922 (Oct 26, 2012)

I fast rope every morning when I get up out of bed, but sometimes I like to slide down too! :-" 
​​ 
​ 
​


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## RAGE275 (Oct 27, 2012)

Only elevators I ride in are haunted.


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## reed11b (Oct 27, 2012)

And we have hit full retard. Never go full retard.
Reed


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## amlove21 (Oct 28, 2012)

reed11b said:


> And we have hit full retard. Never go full retard.
> Reed


Boy that escalated quickly! I mean, that really got out of hand fast.


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## JohnnyBoyUSMC (Oct 28, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> Boy that escalated quickly! I mean, that really got out of hand fast.


 
Yea I killed a man with a trident!


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## 0699 (Oct 28, 2012)

You should probably go into hiding for a few days...


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## RAGE275 (Oct 29, 2012)

Brick, where did you get a grenade?


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## Grey (Oct 29, 2012)

You know a thread has gone downhill when the movie quotes come out and even the mods are in on it.


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## SkrewzLoose (Oct 29, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> Boy that escalated quickly! I mean, that really got out of hand fast.


 
-1 for no clip art or video


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## amlove21 (Oct 29, 2012)

SkrewzLoose said:


> -1 for no clip art or video


Bahahah noted. I own that one.


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## amlove21 (Oct 29, 2012)

Grey said:


> You know a thread has gone downhill when the movie quotes come out and even the mods are in on it.


YIKES Yup... 

Alright everyone- no more hijacking- yes I know I was at fault too- my hypocrisy only goes so far. 

And yes, that was a movie quote to tell everyone to put it back on target in response to someone pointing out that we went off target with movie quotes. 

THREADCEPTION.


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## HoosierAnnie (Oct 29, 2012)

amlove21 said:


> - my hypocrisy only goes so far. .


 
Yes Sir, Mr Holliday


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## Grimfury160 (Oct 31, 2012)

Sometimes you cant help the retard but they will recover...........................


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## goon175 (Oct 31, 2012)

lol that is awesome!


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## AWP (Oct 31, 2012)

That's going to leave a mark.


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## Grimfury160 (Oct 31, 2012)

goon175 said:


> lol that is awesome!


They should have opted for another carrier, that was not a UPS delivery.........more like Old Dominion drop off.


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