# Special Forces, Up Close and Personal (Afghanistan) - video



## jasion (Apr 21, 2011)

Special Forces working with Afgan Army. The first guy through the door is AA. His weapon is hit and he turns and runs out the door (look for sparks when rounds hits his weapon). He run outside and is killed by insurgents in the house (this happens off camera). The Special Forces soldier neutralizes the threat. Training makes all the difference.


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## Manolito (Apr 21, 2011)

Elevated my heart rate


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## pardus (Apr 21, 2011)

Intense footage.


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## mike_cos (Apr 21, 2011)

interesting video.... (but... is this a SF technique?)


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## QC (Apr 22, 2011)

Serious


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 22, 2011)

Lucky


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## surgicalcric (Apr 22, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> interesting video.... (but... is this a SF technique?)



Is what an SF technique, letting Afghan Security Forces take the lead in securing their own country with SF as advisors and mentors?  No, it is not an SF technique, its a common sense approach which is utilized by SF.

If you were referring to something entirely different then please be more specific.


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## mike_cos (Apr 22, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> No, it is not an SF technique, its a common sense approach which is utilized by SF.
> 
> If you were referring to something entirely different then please be more specific.


...hey mate... common sense approach?.....let's try to analyze some still images...

1) the squad arrive to OBJ by car in broad daylight and stopped the car at 100 meters from the OBJ







2) The OBJ is small, isolated and is located in open field, cover and concealement are difficult. The appproach should be done very carefully because OBJ is occupied (there is a motorbike)






3) Operators meet the Principal Direction of Fire (PDF) during the approach






4) Operators are too far from the OBJ's wall... there are many slots, a window, the entrance door.... and when it's time to break-in, rifle is not in position.... (barrel down...)






5) After break-in, first operator look on the right side not in front of him.... he will be lucky 1" after, in effect in front of him there is an insurgent....






6) SureFire switch on.....






7) with 2 potential insurgents in the room, without cover on the door, operator leaves his M4, raising his right hand...










Do you like it?....


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## pardus (Apr 22, 2011)

Mike, I'm not going to get into specifics because 1, I'm not SF and 2, I wasn't there during this raid.

Remember you and I were not there so we don't know why the raid was done in broad daylight, I can think of a few good reasons though.
One point about parking, did you not see the berm surrounding the hut?


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## Ravage (Apr 22, 2011)

Shit, when you watch stuff like this you realise how vulnerable you are in CQB.
Brave guys.....damn brave!


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## mike_cos (Apr 22, 2011)

pardus said:


> Mike, I'm not going to get into specifics because 1, I'm not SF and 2, I wasn't there during this raid.
> 
> Remember you and I were not there so we don't know why the raid was done in broad daylight, I can think of a few good reasons though.
> One point about parking, did you not see the berm surrounding the hut?


I agree with you Pardus...   the berm?... exactly for this reason foxtrot approach should be treated more...


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## surgicalcric (Apr 22, 2011)

A couple things:

How many rotations or how many months/years do you have working with a host/partner nation military/police force in an active combat zone where they are the main effort and you are there to support and advice them?

How much time do you have in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or any other third world shit hole conducting operations? It doesn't seem as though you have much if any given some of these questions/comments you are making.

Regardless, I will entertain your musings, within reason, as I have been in this situation a time or two...



mike_cos said:


> ...hey mate... common sense approach?.....let's try to analyze some still images...



Common sense approach in that we are letting them (ANA/ANP) take the lead in fighting for and dying for their own country's security. The other alternative is for us to continue to hold their hands and do what they should be doing...

The view from the helmet cam is very narrow, in that you cant see everything else that went on getting to the objective, why they are there, whether this was a follow-on/flex target, etc... It doesnt provide a good view of what was going on with respect to security covering the assault forces movement either.



> 1) the squad arrive to OBJ by car in broad daylight and stopped the car at 100 meters from the OBJ



And, your point? Quite often guys are forced to move distances, without cover, greater than they would like due to a berm, compound wall, fields, etc surrounding the TGT structure...

As for daylight vs. dark, again we dont know the details of why...



> 2) The OBJ is small, isolated and is located in open field, cover and concealment are difficult. The approach should be done very carefully because OBJ is occupied (there is a motorbike)



I agree that movement from the LCAC position shouldn't be taken lightly. Speed is security...



> 3) Operators meet the Principal Direction of Fire (PDF) during the approach



I would say you are assuming they couldn't be viewed from the other sides of the structure or that they had time to study the structure from multiple angles prior to moving on it. Most mud huts in Afghanistan, Iraq, countries in the horn of Africa, Lebanon, South American, Phillipines, etc... have holes in them from which people can peer out, on all sides, thus making approach from any direction open to view.



> 4) ...and when it's time to break-in, rifle is not in position.... (barrel down...)



I disagree.

The Afghani's rifle is in the position it should be, not flagging the guy in front of him. I dont know about you but I dont particularly like having a rifle pointed in my back (or any part of my body) especially when its a jundi holding the rifle. Your methods may vary, best of luck to you if you do allow it...



> 5) After break-in, first operator look on the right side not in front of him.... he will be lucky 1" after, in effect in front of him there is an insurgent....



First person in the door isnt an SF guy, its an ANA soldier (BTW, operators answer phones).



> 6) SureFire switch on.....



Not sure what point you are trying to make here...



> 7) with 2 potential insurgents in the room, without cover on the door, operator leaves his M4, raising his right hand...



Do you know who made entry into the structure behind the couple ANA and one SF soldier? Do you know who is securing the perimeter of the structure from the outside? If not you are again assuming.

Furthermore, and I return to question your experiences - how many Afghan villagers you have interacted with? I dont know any who understand spoken English commands. As such from time to time it requires hand and arm signals to get one's point across without physically moving people where you want them, which would also require removing a hand from the weapon. Giving hand signals is common when working in the places we work with those we work with and against.



> Do you like it?....



Honestly I have nothing negative to say about it; I wasnt there and dont know the details that led to what we viewed on the cam.

I would admonish you to, when you dont know the details, avoid criticizing others actions based on the aforementioned lack of information needed to make such judgments. It is unprofessional and unproductive.

That said, you saw what its like on a day-to-day basis working with and fighting along side host/partner nation forces. Sometimes things go as planned other times not so much, but it is what it is...  Doing this day-in/day-out isnt for everyone.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 22, 2011)

Mike I understand your view and break down of the video, but have you ever lead a team/squad of LN Military especially Iraqi/Afghan?  I have and in gunfights after a month in a half of training them and some of worst places of Baghdad. I would not question the SF'er here he did what he had to do and he was very lucky, but I can tell you that when bullets start to fly and your group of ICDC-ING run away leaving you to deal with the problem its a very fucked feeling....

I'll write out an armchair QB review later.....


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## Ranger Psych (Apr 22, 2011)

I say given the fact that the ANA dude turned and ran, which got him killed... and Mr. 18 series went in and kicked ass... ain't nothing wrong. the ANA dudes screwed up, but they're new at this and admittedly aren't the most high-speed.

Remember: In a raid, they pick the place, you pick the time.
You can only reduce the obstacles and barriers that they put on the objective so much. There's no magic way to be able to reduce the distance from the berm wall, to the objective's entrance. So that argument is moot.  ANA being barrel down when a guy is moving in front of them? Sounds like a good thing to me, I would rather they be in front of ME but that's just due to my personal quality time with ANA in the past.

Taclight on? Dude, you run into an unlit building from a sunny trashcanistan day and tell me you ain't gonna use your taclight to be able to see wtf is going on, in a building.

1 entrance to the building that they ripped down. SF dude CLEARED THE ENTIRE BUILDING and he's still got muzzle orientation at Habeeb and Derpa Durka when he gives them the hand and arm signal to lay down, so given the OBJ is secure at this point and he's a half second to being able to drop the hammer on the guys with CLEAR HANDS... hey, I'd buy him beer. In fact if anyone knows this guy and he ever makes it up to alaska, tell him that.

To be totally honest, this looks just like one of many raids I did over there up until the point that you have an afghani doing something.  I mean, You know X is there now. You don't know if he'll be there overnight, and you don't know if he'll roll out. You don't have the people to be able to just plop a LPOP up on that shit so guess what... Fuck it, we'll do it live.


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## mike_cos (Apr 23, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> I would admonish you to, when you dont know the details, avoid criticizing others actions based on the aforementioned lack of information needed to make such judgments. It is unprofessional and unproductive.
> 
> That said, you saw what its like on a day-to-day basis working with and fighting along side host/partner nation forces. Sometimes things go as planned other times not so much, but it is what it is... Doing this day-in/day-out isnt for everyone.





Ranger Psych said:


> There's no magic way to be able to reduce the distance from the berm wall, to the objective's entrance.
> Dude, you run into an unlit building from a sunny trashcanistan day and tell me you ain't gonna use your taclight to be able to see wtf is going on, in a building.





JAB said:


> I'll write out an armchair QB review later.....








Hey guys... nothing of personal....I surrender....I just responded to surgicalcric's question 





surgicalcric said:


> No, it is not an SF technique, its a common sense approach which is utilized by SF.
> If you were referring to something entirely different then please be more specific.



no one is questioning the value of special forces...i'm just trying to stimulate the contradictory to our board... i'm very sorry if I offended anyone with my ignorance.

Mike (the smooth operator)


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## surgicalcric (Apr 23, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> ...Hey guys... nothing of personal....I surrender.
> 
> no one is questioning the value of special forces...i'm just trying to stimulate the contradictory to our board... i'm very sorry if I offended anyone with my ignorance...



Mike:

None of us took it personally. Most of us enjoy conversation and hearing from people with different perspectives. What we don't particularly care for is arm chair quarterbacking especially when all the facts surrounding an incident aren't known.

In the future you would do better to note your frame of reference (where/when you encountered a dis/similar issue) when questioning the actions of men on the battlefield, while you aren't.

And if you would, for my edification, answer the questions, in my previous response, about your experience(s) so I can better weigh responses to future topics you may be posting on.

Thanks,

Crip


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## moobob (Apr 23, 2011)

It's okay to critique a video like this for training value (as in LEO involved shootings). The problem is, we don't have all the context of what went down, so its pointless to critique the vid other than 'whoa, intense footage'.

Only thing you can conclusively see is the Afghan dude got beat to the draw and panicked, and the U.S. guy took out the threat. You can never know how you'll react unless you've been there, and the most trained/experienced guy just has to screw up, or get unlucky one time to be in a similar situation.

May he RIP, and hopefully his loss and the bravery of the (assuming he's a) SF guy inspires them to keep fighting the Taliban fucks.


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## mike_cos (Apr 23, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> Mike:
> 
> your experience(s) so I can better weigh responses to future topics you may be posting on.
> 
> ...



Crip,
(Administrators, probably this is my last post on this board..Banhammer is always ready... I'm very sorry, because here I have found special guys, virtual friends and (why not) fun....) well.. what I want to tell you is: I only asked myself, with my first post, if we have to consider the entire action how SOF action (usually SOF are involved into special operations), for me (I insist for me only) no. You asked me to be more specific, and I did. Now... probably due to the board, probably (sure) due to my ridicule english (my english sucks), if I gave you the impression of sapientone apologize to you (and I've already done)... but if you think you can decide to respond to my future topics just based on my experience... .. with all my due respect... don't do it... you are green ribbon... I'm only black... your military training is bigger, your experience is bigger, probably (sure) you are clever than me... but I only know this... I would not have allowed my boys to approach and enter in that afghan shithole in that way, this is the fact.

Respectfully

Mike

Goodbye, cruel world 
I'm leaving you today 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye 

Goodbye, all you people 
There's nothing you can say 
To make me change my mind 
Goodbye 

(from "The Wall)


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## Ravage (Apr 23, 2011)

No need to be so dramatic, group hug everybody :)


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## surgicalcric (Apr 23, 2011)

mike_cos said:


> ...Entire Post...



Wow...I didn't see that coming. Please step away from the Lifetime channel and let the drama go.

Prior to responding to your message questioning the actions of the guys in the field "doing it live" I perused your posts but couldn't find reference to your experience(s) in Iraq, Astan, Africa, etc... admittedly I scanned through them quickly and so I could have missed it; nonetheless after not finding what I was looking for so I asked.

I wasn't calling you out, simply asking you to frame your posts with what you have seen on the two way range so those of us responding can try to see things from your point of view or at least have a better understanding about where you may be coming from with your comments/questions. I do respond to people, who post critiques about tactical situation and otherwise, based on their experience. If you go back over some of the older posts here you will find most of the SOF/combat arms guys here do the same thing. We share a lot of advice and opinion on this board and over time we come to know each other (US and otherwise), know where the others are coming from and what experience they base their opinions and how/under what conditions those have been shaped.

However, when guys step out of their lane and interject into posts they are told to return to their area of expertise. To be honest I have given you more leeway than I do most because I understand your English isn't the greatest.

All that said, you need to grow some thicker skin.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Apr 23, 2011)

Good god Mike, WTF? I like your posts around here and enjoy the info you put out most of the time. The points you made are not invalid or wrong, but as pointed out the situation is a little bit different than what we all want to be working with.

I agree with Crip, that you should toughen up the skin a bit. He was not fucking with you believe me I know lol….take that stupid ban me post down and drive on bro.;)


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## mike_cos (Apr 23, 2011)

surgicalcric said:


> Wow...I didn't see that coming. Please step away from the Lifetime channel and let the drama go.
> 
> Prior to responding to your message questioning the actions of the guys in the field "doing it live" I perused your posts but couldn't find reference to your experience(s) in Iraq, Astan, Africa, etc... admittedly I scanned through them quickly and so I could have missed it; nonetheless after not finding what I was looking for so I asked.
> 
> ...



eheheh.. Crip... this confirm that my english sucks (but your italian too)....  I wrote previous dramatic post because I was sure to be banned (last famous words)... (maybe admins are celebrating Easter)...
 From this thread I have learned only a thing:
(with ref. to what we can only see by SF's cam in that video) you would approach and broke in that way. I learned something new and I thank you.
About my experiences... what do you want to hear you say? That I partecipated in covert ops? That I neutralized many bad boys? All over the world? I would be worth for you?.... you have well said: on this forum there's nothing about me... and never find.
You're right, I need thicker skin.... especially when I will approach to obj in that way...

Nothing personal

Mike


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## surgicalcric (Apr 23, 2011)

Taken to PM...


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## amlove21 (Apr 23, 2011)

heheh, ha, um..... ahem.

Great vid, huh? HOW ABOUT THEM CLEVELAND INDIANS?


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## pardus (Apr 23, 2011)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry lol


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## surgicalcric (Apr 23, 2011)

pardus said:


> I don't know whether to laugh or cry lol



I am laughing so hard I am crying. :confused:


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## parallel (Apr 23, 2011)

Well... from my chair the pucker factor was higher than I would like to experience.


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## DasBoot (Apr 23, 2011)

What was with the sparks? Was that the rounds hitting his rifle?


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## JustAnotherJ (Apr 23, 2011)

That guy handled himself very well, all things considered.


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## Polar Bear (Apr 23, 2011)

Mike quit being a Pussy and was the sand out. I have been following the thread... Crip has been more than forgiving with you, I would have blown up on you by now and he has been very professional and asked you to answer some questions, please do so. You are not going to be banned

Regards,
Admin


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## pardus (Apr 23, 2011)

JustAnotherJ said:


> That guy handled himself very well, all things considered.



Mike?


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## DA SWO (Apr 23, 2011)

pardus said:


> Mike?


No crip.


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## amlove21 (Apr 24, 2011)

pardus said:


> Mike?



AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! That, ladies and gentlemen, is called a "win".


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