# K-9 Tourniquets



## Squidward (Nov 19, 2012)

Was approached by our dog handler the other day about tourniquets for his dog. He was given one of these: http://www.extremeoutfitters.us/natotourniquet.aspx prior to deployment. After doing some homework on it and a few trial runs, I don't disagree with it. It's similar to the tourniquets we made at the school house for the same type of patient. The only difference being the addition hooks for better retention. I know for a fact old school cravat and dowel tourniquets work well on animal limbs, and I like using cravats because they're multipurpose. I've always been a fan of the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, but is there something better out there for K-9's?


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## Muppet (Nov 19, 2012)

I have never seen anything out there for K-9's. I have taken several classes, both from USAR and Tactical medicine and have never ran into such a beast but I would think if a K-9, god forbid gets a G.S.W. to the limb would probally loose that limb from the massive damage but I may be wrong. I primarly learned about C.P.R. / Needle D's and airways, oh and whats it called when the K-9's intestine get rigid and needs to be compressed? I would think your right Squidward, cravats and a windlass would probally sufice.

F.M.


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## policemedic (Nov 19, 2012)

Firemedic said:


> I have never seen anything out there for K-9's. I have taken several classes, both from USAR and Tactical medicine and have never ran into such a beast but I would think if a K-9, god forbid gets a G.S.W. to the limb would probally loose that limb from the massive damage but I may be wrong. I primarly learned about C.P.R. / Needle D's and airways, oh and whats it called when the K-9's intestine get rigid and needs to be compressed? I would think your right Squidward, cravats and a windlass would probally sufice.
> 
> F.M.


 
Gastric torsion.


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## policemedic (Nov 19, 2012)

Squidward said:


> Was approached by our dog handler the other day about tourniquets for his dog. He was given one of these: http://www.extremeoutfitters.us/natotourniquet.aspx prior to deployment. After doing some homework on it and a few trial runs, I don't disagree with it. It's similar to the tourniquets we made at the school house for the same type of patient. The only difference being the addition hooks for better retention. I know for a fact old school cravat and dowel tourniquets work well on animal limbs, and I like using cravats because they're multipurpose. I've always been a fan of the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle, but is there something better out there for K-9's?


 
One of the folks that runs our working dog center is very involved with SOCOM and developing new protocols for canine TC3; I'll reach out to her to see if there is anything new commercially available.


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## Muppet (Nov 19, 2012)

policemedic said:


> Gastric torsion.


 
Thanks bro.

F.M.


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## Squidward (Nov 20, 2012)

policemedic said:


> One of the folks that runs our working dog center is very involved with SOCOM and developing new protocols for canine TC3; I'll reach out to her to see if there is anything new commercially available.


 
Many thanks. Interested to see what the new protocols are. On a different subject, gastric torsion is no joke. My dog back home developed it after eating the plastic tray that sour punch straws come in. Was an interesting Christmas Eve.


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## Muppet (Nov 20, 2012)

Squidward said:


> Many thanks. Interested to see what the new protocols are. On a different subject, gastric torsion is no joke. My dog back home developed it after eating the plastic tray that sour punch straws come in. Was an interesting Christmas Eve.


 
Ouch. Did it need to be decompressed and is he fine now?

F.M.


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## Squidward (Nov 23, 2012)

She's fine now. Required an emergency surgery by the local veterinarian on Christmas Eve. She's always been a problem child. Hasn't gone a full year without a trip to the vet for some injury, but she is 70 pounds of love.


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## Chopstick (Nov 23, 2012)

Im going to dognap that dog.


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## Squidward (Nov 23, 2012)

She adds more and more members to her fan club wherever she goes.


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## Jettie (Nov 30, 2012)

Squidward said:


> Many thanks. Interested to see what the new protocols are. On a different subject, gastric torsion is no joke. My dog back home developed it after eating the plastic tray that sour punch straws come in. Was an interesting Christmas Eve.


My old stray Lab got that from a rawhide chew. Night-time in the tropics, no vet. Too late, I had no training to save him.


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## Squidward (Nov 30, 2012)

Jettie said:


> My old stray Lab got that from a rawhide chew. Night-time in the tropics, no vet. Too late, I had no training to save him.


 
Damn man. Sorry to hear that. Always thought stray dogs and adopted dogs from the pound were some of the best to get.


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## LibraryLady (Dec 2, 2012)

Found this on the FB German Shepherd Rescue and Adoption page.  Excellent graphic.

LL


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## Red Flag 1 (Dec 2, 2012)

Jettie said:


> My old stray Lab got that from a rawhide chew. Night-time in the tropics, no vet. Too late, I had no training to save him.


 
I am very saddened to hear of this, for both you and your friend . My girls get the rawhide chews to help keep their teeth and gums healthy. I have knowledge of the bowel obstruction risk, but continue to use them with crossed fingers. That had to have been a simply dreadful thing to deal with, sans medical help. My deepest sympathies out for you.

RF 1


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## Jettie (Dec 4, 2012)

Red Flag 1 said:


> I am very saddened to hear of this, for both you and your friend . My girls get the rawhide chews to help keep their teeth and gums healthy. I have knowledge of the bowel obstruction risk, but continue to use them with crossed fingers. That had to have been a simply dreadful thing to deal with, sans medical help. My deepest sympathies out for you.
> 
> RF 1


Thank you and Squidward for kind words. (I can't figure out how to do a "like" for a post. Doh.) It was five years ago, but still miss the old waddler. I learned basic vet care and how to give rabies shots from a Swedish nurse (before we had a vet). Anyway, a lab is not fit for the tropics. The local breeds (my fav stray pet was a Thai ridgeback cross) were real survivors. Head wounds were the worst, but I used iodine after I picked out the maggots, although I heard maggots eat up the pus and dead meat, so are helpful. The Thais mashed up a paste of tobacco, lao khao whisky and some herbs, and packed festering wounds with it. It worked. I digress from the thread topic. :)


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## Squidward (Dec 4, 2012)

Jettie said:


> Thank you and Squidward for kind words. (I can't figure out how to do a "like" for a post. Doh.) It was five years ago, but still miss the old waddler. I learned basic vet care and how to give rabies shots from a Swedish nurse (before we had a vet). Anyway, a lab is not fit for the tropics. The local breeds (my fav stray pet was a Thai ridgeback cross) were real survivors. Head wounds were the worst, but I used iodine after I picked out the maggots, although I heard maggots eat up the pus and dead meat, so are helpful. The Thais mashed up a paste of tobacco, lao khao whisky and some herbs, and packed festering wounds with it. It worked. I digress from the thread topic. :)


 
No worries bro. If digressing from the thread continues to be like the above, I'm alright with it. Ditch medicine is always relevant.


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## Jettie (Dec 8, 2012)

^ OK, thanks, Squidward. :) May I add one more for emergencies without medics? Locals often poisoned dogs by setting out meat laced with rat poison (strychnine). It is horrid to see the results: the dog goes into convulsions and starts vomiting with diarrhea before collapsing and dying. I force fed dogs with six or more raw eggs (the eggs apparently congeal? the poison in the gut) and then poured salt (dry mustard, etc) on the back of their tongues to make them vomit. It worked when the poison was not fully digested. Lots of water after. Also lots of mess. Any vet/medic please correct me for any errors.


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## Squidward (Dec 8, 2012)

Honestly haven't heard of that either. Looking forward to seeing if there's anything extra on this.


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## policemedic (Dec 8, 2012)

Jettie said:


> ^ OK, thanks, Squidward. :) May I add one more for emergencies without medics? Locals often poisoned dogs by setting out meat laced with rat poison (strychnine). It is horrid to see the results: the dog goes into convulsions and starts vomiting with diarrhea before collapsing and dying. I force fed dogs with six or more raw eggs (the eggs apparently congeal? the poison in the gut) and then poured salt (dry mustard, etc) on the back of their tongues to make them vomit. It worked when the poison was not fully digested. Lots of water after. Also lots of mess. Any vet/medic please correct me for any errors.


 
You're on the right track. 

Strychnine produces symptoms rapidly, usually within an hour or two, so it's important to get the stuff out of the dog as quickly as possible.  The eggs will work--it's actually the egg whites--and so will milk.  The point is to coat the gut and prevent absorption of the poison.  Activated charcoal is ideal, and it's something that anyone can buy, possess, and use.

Where treating this gets tricky is after symptoms develop.  Diagnosis is fairly easy because the presentation is classic, but inducing emesis in a dog that is seizing or obtunded is bad mojo.  These cases require an orogastric tube to introduce the medicine and for gastric lavage (think rinsing out the stomach).  Intubation--a breathing tube--may also be necessary depending on the dog's condition.  Insertion of both these tubes is easier in dogs than humans, but requires training and the right equipment.

If the dog is symptomatic and there's no vet around, the dog is in bad shape.


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## Jettie (Dec 9, 2012)

^ Txs, Police Medic. :) If you were around, we woulda saved more pups. We didn't have charcoal except the BBQ chunks, but I knew that was the best to neutralize the poison. Emesis? You got me.  I only thought of the burning bile coming up the throat.


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## Jettie (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you for explaining this more succinctly, PoliceMedic.


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## kaja (Jan 19, 2013)

Sorry for stealing this topic, but can somebody head me towards some materials on canine TCCC? I was able to find some civvie guidelines from friend K9 handler, but they don't count with GSW or blast injuries...


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## policemedic (Jan 19, 2013)

I just realized I lost track of this thread.

Regarding tourniquets, best word I've gotten from multiple expert sources is that nothing works very well due to the canine anatomy.  Field expedient mods such as have been mentioned do increase efficiency but nobody has taken anything to market.


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## Squidward (Jan 19, 2013)

I'd be terribly wrong if I said they were just like smaller versions of people the same as if I were talking about peds. I can't remember K9 specific drug doses and fluid admin guidelines off the top of my head (why I carry around cheat cards), but as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, stop gaps for K9's are the same as they are for people with a few tweaks of course. TQ'ing and a few other K9 specific measures have been discussed above, but as far as covering the ABC's, SMARCH-V, or insert acronym here it's a matter of doing the norm while working around K9 anatomy (tailoring tubes for airway issues etc).


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## policemedic (Jan 19, 2013)

Drug dosing and fluid boluses for canines are often weight based, and vets that aren't used to human medicine and metric system will often quote dose ranges in mg/lb. Cheat sheets are the way to go, and are really great if you know the dog you'll be treating as opposed to some random K9 or MWD because you can precalc the doses.

C-TCCC guidelines are no different than the human ones, keeping in mind that the dog is a living, breathing weapons system with an independent targeting mechanism. Return fire may equal let the dog stay in the fight if it can until it can be safely recalled and treated. As Squidward said, the principles don't change; the anatomy does. Therapy for a tension pneumo in a dog is not different than a human. However, the landmarks are different so understanding canine anatomy and how to treat a weapons system with teeth when it's hurt and scared are paramount.


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## kaja (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks

Are there any study materials on canine pathology/ anatomy? Like proper placement of decompression needle or surgical cric? Also does these change a lot in breeds mostly used as MWD? I don't work around dogs too often, and quite sincerely we don't have best relations, but I can see the need to be able to treat someone's doggy friend.

Regarding Tq- how would esmarch-type tourniquets (like SWAT) work? From my experience they (when applied properly) are least painful and well tolerated compared to windlass-type.

BTW: Will pulse ox work on dog, and where should I place it?
-


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## bublik (Jan 20, 2013)

You can stick a pulse ox on a tongue but that only works in a sedated dog.

USAISR has a clinical practice guideline (CPG) specifically for the care of MWDs. You can access CPGs here http://www.usaisr.amedd.army.mil/clinical_practice_guidelines.html or I can send it to you. A friend of mine did a fair amount of canine transport during his last deployment and I'm headed to his spot so I needed to brush up...the only anesthesia I've done on animals was in a mouse lab and I hope that's not something I do again, not a rodent fan :whatever:


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## policemedic (Jan 22, 2013)

An SpO2 sensor will also read through their lip, but getting them leave it alone long enough to get a reading can be a trick.  Watch for clinical signs of hypoxia; I've always found that more useful than a pulse ox no matter the patient's species.

I had an opportunity to use a Penrose drain and a hemostat as a field expedient K9 TQ tonight for a laceration to the medial surface of the proximal left front pastern.  Worked well.  Pt was a 7mo Vizsla who had an unfortunate encounter with a car that also resulted in femur and tibial fxs.


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