# coded ammunition



## arizonaguide (Dec 13, 2008)

New bill in Arizona.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/48leg/2r/bills/hb2833p.pdf

   Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
   Section 1. Title 41, chapter 12, article 5, Arizona Revised Statutes,
   is amended by adding section 41-1772, to read:
   41-1772. Ammunition coding system database; sale of ammunition;
   tax; fund; civil penalty; violation; classification;
   definition
   A. BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2009, A MANUFACTURER SHALL CODE ALL HANDGUN AND ASSAULT WEAPON AMMUNITION THAT IS MANUFACTURED OR SOLD IN THIS STATE.
  THIS SECTION APPLIES TO ALL CALIBERS.
  B. *BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2011, A PRIVATE CITIZEN OR A RETAIL VENDOR
  SHALL DISPOSE OF ALL NONCODED AMMUNITION THAT IS OWNED OR HELD BY THE CITIZEN
  OR VENDOR.*
  C. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN AN AMMUNITION CODING
  SYSTEM DATABASE CONTAINING A MANUFACTURER REGISTRY AND A VENDOR REGISTRY.
  D. A MANUFACTURER SHALL:
  1. REGISTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE
  DEPARTMENT BY RULE.
  2. MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR AT LEAST SEVEN YEARS
  CONCERNING ALL SALES, LOANS AND TRANSFERS OF AMMUNITION TO, FROM OR WITHIN
  THIS STATE.
  3. ENCODE AMMUNITION PROVIDED FOR RETAIL SALE FOR REGULATED FIREARMS
  IN A MANNER THAT THE DIRECTOR ESTABLISHES SO THAT:
  (a) *THE BASE OF THE BULLET AND THE INSIDE OF THE CARTRIDGE CASING OF
  EACH ROUND IN A BOX OF AMMUNITION ARE CODED WITH THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER.*
  (b) EACH SERIAL NUMBER IS ENGRAVED IN SUCH A MANNER THAT IT IS HIGHLY
  LIKELY TO PERMIT IDENTIFICATION AFTER AMMUNITION DISCHARGE AND BULLET IMPACT.
  (c) THE OUTSIDE OF EACH BOX OF AMMUNITION IS LABELED WITH THE NAME OF THE MANUFACTURER AND THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER USED ON THE CARTRIDGE CASINGS AND BASES OF BULLETS CONTAINED IN THE BOX.
  4. PAY THE TAX LEVIED BY SUBSECTION I OF THIS SECTION.
E. A MANUFACTURER SHALL NOT LABEL AMMUNITION CONTAINED IN ONE
  AMMUNITION BOX WITH THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER AS THE AMMUNITION CONTAINED IN ANOTHER  AMMUNITION BOX THAT IS PRODUCED BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER.
  F. A VENDOR SHALL:
  1. REGISTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE
  DEPARTMENT BY RULE.
  2. *RECORD THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN A FORMAT PRESCRIBED BY THE
  DEPARTMENT:
  (a) THE DATE OF THE TRANSACTION.
  (b) THE NAME OF THE PURCHASER.
  (c) THE PURCHASER'S DRIVER LICENSE NUMBER OR OTHER GOVERNMENT ISSUED
  IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER.
  (d) THE DATE OF BIRTH OF THE PURCHASER.
  (e) THE UNIQUE IDENTIFIER OF ALL HANDGUN AMMUNITION OR BULLETS
  TRANSFERRED.*


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## pardus (Dec 13, 2008)

*WTF!!!???* 

Another way to side step the 2nd amendment end kill our rights, AZ im extremely disappointed!


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## arizonaguide (Dec 13, 2008)

Yup, looks like all that ammo I just bought has a two year shelf life.


And if your ammo get's stolen? :uhh:

Brings up a question: anybody ever done any "seal-a-meal" vacuum packing of ammo?
Is that a smart thing? Any reason NOT to? (any escaping gasses to worry about, etc?)
I mean just to increase the shelf life and all, for long term emergency storage.



Oh yeah, BTW:
*"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."
--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007*


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 13, 2008)

*FUCKING RETARDED*

WTF?


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## arizonaguide (Dec 13, 2008)

J.A.B. said:


> *FUCKING RETARDED*
> 
> WTF?


Yup! and thus it begins...

Seriously though, has anyone ever vacuum packed ammo?
Any problems with it?  Should I call manufacturers?
You KNOW what I'm thinking.
:2c:


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## pardus (Dec 13, 2008)

The military ammo battle packs are sealed for many years without issue. :2c:


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## 8'Duece (Dec 13, 2008)

Where's John McCain now ?  This is his state afterall, is it not ? :uhh:


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## arizonaguide (Dec 14, 2008)

*Sold Out.*

I've about given up on him.

Look at the Border situation, for example.
Say you run a big construction company in Texas, Arizona, or California, and live in a gated community...you _like_ cheap illegal labor.

Hell, you can hire by the day, pay less than minimum, and don't have to pay benefits. (this X thousands of workers).

What do you care about the crime that comes with it, (and you'll actually lobby _*for*_ illegal labor to people like McCain).
What do you care if American's are out of work because of it.
What do you care if crime and kidnappings come to the "working class" neighborhoods.

If you're a blue-collor working man that cares about America, well...different story.
Better take your ammo.
Sold out, Bro.

And I'm not sure if the basic theory behind the numbers are a bad idea.  It just wont work. (old/stollen ammo).
And, it's an awfuly lot of freedom(and $$$) to piss away, having to destroy all my EXISTING ammo, etc.
:uhh: C'mon.

It's Probably gonna get worse too, again (from the man himself):
"*My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office*. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a *national no-carry law*, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and *bans on all semi-automatic guns*."
--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007

"Some people" must think Criminals have RESPECT for the law...and actually fear the _legal_ consequences...when in fact they only fear the BIG STICK consequances...especially if they can just skitter back across the border (to freely come/go).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Dec 14, 2008)

82ndtrooper said:


> Where's John McCain now ?  This is his state afterall, is it not ? :uhh:



I am not sure McCain is a gun supporter!

He has not fired a weapon since he left the Navy and he has neer shown any true care as to what goes on with gun laws:confused: I am sure that AZ is saying it will only help us track murders and help us get the bad guy!

So everyone says yep, lets do it!

In the end, it cost you another few $$$ per a box. Or the ammo guys do what Barret did and says "Fuck you" we won't sell to your state now! I wonder how well that will work for all of their LEO's:confused:


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## 7point62 (Dec 14, 2008)

Well AZ, looks like you got about two weeks to stock up.


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## HOLLiS (Dec 14, 2008)

arizonaguide said:


> Yup, looks like all that ammo I just bought has a two year shelf life.
> 
> 
> And if your ammo get's stolen? :uhh:
> ...



You can get a seal a meal,  it also works to preserve documents too,  Place in bag and vacuum...   Ammo actually seals up pretty good by it self.  It is a good idea to rotate your stock any way.  There is some pretty old military surplus that works fine.  Only probably I ever had was some 1942 RG .303 that used cordite as a propellant.  Seems the cordite had a shelf life.  If it is cheap enough, one can pull components and reload.  

Other thing, I shoot using a burm,  Later I will mine the bullets.  Cast bullets work, though a reduce load is used.  There many ways to stop shooters from shooting and there are many ways to keep shooting. 

Never underestimate human ingenuity.  (either direction)


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## sgtlew (Dec 14, 2008)

looks like this Bill died.  Check out this link.

http://www.azcdl.org/html/2008_bills.html

Still leaves one to worry though.  Time to build the secret bunker in the back yard.


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## arizonaguide (Dec 14, 2008)

sgtlew said:


> looks like this Bill died.  Check out this link.
> 
> http://www.azcdl.org/html/2008_bills.html
> 
> Still leaves one to worry though.  Time to build the secret bunker in the back yard.



Excellent News, and *excellent link* SgtLew!
I had forgotten about those folks, I had met some at the 2008 Gun Rights Policy Conference here in PHX, then lost (burried somewhere) their contact info.  Thanks!:cool:


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## pardus (Dec 15, 2008)

Thank fuck saner heads prevailed!


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## arizonaguide (Dec 15, 2008)

This time.

remember:
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."
--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007

I'm still gonna get the seal-a-meal fired up.  Lots of 12ga ammo, and some 30-06, and .40 to stash. Probably some .22 and 9mm for good measure.


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## phantom1984 (Jan 19, 2009)

*seal o meal*

a buddy of mine grandfather died and left him an old Colt 45 he used when he was in the Army.It had never been fired and was loaded for a lot of years. He and I took it out and fired it and the ammo was still in good working order and so was the 45 Is it really a problem? I have about a thousand rounds of 9 mil for my pistol everytime i take it out to shoot i buy double what i shoot to make up for it. Will the ammo really go bad?


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## arizonaguide (Jan 19, 2009)

*Will the ammo really go bad?*

The word I'm getting is "not really"...in other words, not in our lifetime, unless it gets contaminated in water, chemicals, heat/cold effects (expansion/contraction) etc.

But why take the chance?

I'm thinking that it would just be extra good measure to vacuum pack it.


"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will go back after kitchen table dealers, and work to end the gun show and internet sales loopholes. In the first year, I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."
--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007

Combine that statement with the possible "Cop Killer" ammo ban...and I guess we better start practicing Self Defense(legally) on moving headshot sized targets with our .380 (or LESS) ammunition.  (or maybe "birdshot"?)


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## arizonaguide (Jan 19, 2009)

I did hear they're pushing this again on a National Level.
I will research into it more, and find out.


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## The91Bravo (Jan 19, 2009)

Well fuck me runnin...


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## RustyShackleford (Jan 19, 2009)

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_promise_last_year_to_ban.html

Even if Obama wanted to take away concealed carry, he would have a hard time getting it through Congress.  Numerous democratic and republicans have CCPs and multiple weapons.  Hell, IIRC the incoming VP has his CCP.


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## 8'Duece (Jan 19, 2009)

Coded ammunition does nothing in my opinion to aid law enforcement in solving crimes.  Ammuntion can be transferred from one person to another and vice versa, assuming there is not an FBI check when purchasing ammunition and then serial numbering the code to that specific individual.  Ammuntion can be lost and stolen and that would place law enforcement in yet another conundrum with solving shooting crimes.  

It also is the desire of the liberal anti-gunners to increase the costs of ammunition across the board.  I suspect some of the smaller ammunition manufacturers will simply give up and close their doors due to increase costs of coding the amunition. 

Never underestimate the ingenuity of the liberal "backdoor" gun control efforts with these goons.


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## HOLLiS (Jan 19, 2009)

82nd, your 100%.  It is a feel good law, for people who are completely clueless about firearms.   Maybe in a fantasy it would work.  So I guess those who support this law is out in LA LA land.  It would be nice if LA LA land would break away for our planet's orbit and drift off into space somewhere far far from here.


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## arizonaguide (Jan 19, 2009)

Yup!, and a complete waste of money!
And a waste of my ammo that will be outlawed (and FORCED TO BE destroyed) in two years.
My "normal citizen" world (PHX, AZ) just got a lot more dangerous if this and the "cop killer bullets" ammo ban passes!!!


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## pardus (Jan 19, 2009)

You know long term this could be a good thing.

It will so infuriate everybody that there will hopefully be a backlash in voting and in lawsuits that will solidify the 2nd Amendment. :2c:

I hope... :uhh:


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## HOLLiS (Jan 19, 2009)

pardus762 said:


> You know long term this could be a good thing.
> 
> It will so infuriate everybody that there will hopefully be a backlash in voting and in lawsuits that will solidify the 2nd Amendment. :2c:
> 
> I hope... :uhh:



That is true, but in the mean time we are screwed.   


Q:  Why doesn't __________ post here any more?


A:  They were at the range shooting with uncoded ammunition.  They have another 2 years on their jail term.


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## arizonaguide (Jan 19, 2009)

RustyShackleford said:


> Numerous democratic and republicans have CCPs and multiple weapons.  Hell, IIRC the incoming VP has his CCP.


:uhh: Hmmmm, interesting about the VP.


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## koz (Jan 19, 2009)

I've also heard that Dianne Feinstein also has her CCW. (but no longer carries that gun).  But I have NO doubt she'd be completely happy banning/confiscating all guns and ammo.  
IMO - the problem with some of these liberal nutcases is they believe that things should not apply to them, besides their the "rulers" of America, of course THEY can be trusted with a gun,  just not all the incompetent, unruly, dumb citizens....   Silly Citizens, guns are for rulers...

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalpersonalprofiles/p/SenFeinstein.htm

go about midway down the article to the "Interesting Personal Note"


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## HoosierAnnie (Jan 19, 2009)

Obama can't achieve his goal without the support of the House and Senate.  Write your Sentators and Congress Reps. Join the NRA.


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## Polar Bear (Jan 19, 2009)

The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling, 
The sky is falling,
Good God folks get a gripnothing is going to change. Do you really think someone is going to disarm a State like KY, WV, AK, etc?


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## HOLLiS (Jan 19, 2009)

Polar, It does not happen all that fast.   Bill Clinton via executive order, took away the 2nd Amendment rights of about 88,000 veterans.   A year ago Bush signed a bill to restore those rights.   Still nothing has been done.  So for those 88,000 veteran, the ski did fall.  

I don't think the nation as a whole will see laws like that require coded ammunition right away.  I would not put it past California and maybe some other jurisdiction to do it sooner.


Laws have reduced our 2nd Amendment rights.   It is a question of how much and when new laws are again passed to erode that right.


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