# 1911 build



## Teufel (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm looking to buy a pistol (not that I don't have one or two at home...) and I was wondering if you guys could help me out.  I want to buy a Colt 1911 rail gun and have a gun smith do some modifications on it for me.  I was looking at adding:

a Videcki match grade trigger with 4.5 to 5.0 trigger pull weight
a mild dehorn
a Kings or Caspian extended ambidextrous safety 
a Ed Brown Beavertail Grip Safety
a metal main spring housing instead of the plastic one that comes with the gun
What do you think about an 18 lb recoil spring?  I know that is what our MEU(SOC)s had but I don't know if it is really necessary for a range gun.

What sights would you recommend?  It comes with novak white dots and I'd like some sort of night sight.  

Would you change out the barrel?  

Any other work you would do to it?  It already has a flared ejection port and beveled magazine well.
I know we have some gun pros on this site and I am looking forward to hearing your opinions.


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## Manolito (Sep 22, 2011)

I own many pistols and not a single 1911 so I am no help at all. Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want and where you are going. Withh all that work I have to ask have you looked at a wilson?
Keep safe 
Bill


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## Hitman2/3 (Sep 22, 2011)

Unless you are dead set on a Colt most of what you want you could get on a top end 1911, maybe not the parts manufactures but the same parts. The Springfield Armory TRP comes to mind. It runs anywhere from $1200 to $1400 give or take. There may be a few things you'd want to change out but it comes with a match barrel, ambidextrous extended thumb safety, adjustable trigger, adjustable Trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, beaver tail grip safety, good grips and full front and back strap. Its a shooters gun right out of the box. I can't even think of anything you would want to do to it other than cosmetic or personal preferences. Just a thought it would save you some money on parts and labor.


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## pardus (Sep 22, 2011)

How different is that wish list to the MARSOC .45?

Just thinking that there must be a few current/ex Marine Armorers that make them on the outside. .02c


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## HOLLiS (Sep 22, 2011)

Kimbers are nice 1911 too, and there are others.


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## policemedic (Sep 22, 2011)

What are you going to use the gun for...paper or people?


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## Teufel (Sep 22, 2011)

policemedic said:


> What are you going to use the gun for...paper or people?



Honestly mostly range work but I don't want a range gun.  I something to put down an intruder/lawyer/politician if given the opportunity.  Hell I'd kill someone with this government issue laptop if given the opportunity.  It is certainly bulky enough.


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## Teufel (Sep 23, 2011)

Hitman2/3 said:


> Unless you are dead set on a Colt most of what you want you could get on a top end 1911, maybe not the parts manufactures but the same parts. The Springfield Armory TRP comes to mind. It runs anywhere from $1200 to $1400 give or take. There may be a few things you'd want to change out but it comes with a match barrel, ambidextrous extended thumb safety, adjustable trigger, adjustable Trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, beaver tail grip safety, good grips and full front and back strap. Its a shooters gun right out of the box. I can't even think of anything you would want to do to it other than cosmetic or personal preferences. Just a thought it would save you some money on parts and labor.



The Colt Rail Gun has most of those same components.  The Rail Gun was Colt's bid for build the new USMC MEU(SOC) pistols for MARSOC.  Springfield put up the "Marine Corps Operator".  I don't know about the other guns that were competing.  I'm not sure if the rail gun has the ambi safety.  It comes with a beavertail already; I may wait to see how the beavertail fits because I don't want a loosely fitted grip safety like I have seen on some guns.  I know if I get one professionally installed then it will be fit correctly.  I'm not 100% set on the rail gun but I do like Colt pistols.  Springfields are great as well though.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2011)

Personally I would not buy a complete 1911 to have it reworked by a smith. I would build it up from the ground, or I would buy it built the closest to what you want. Either-or will be cheaper than buying one and then having it reworked. Also a lot of the work you could do yourself, or have an armor do, or depending on where you are I can put you in contact with some good people.

If you do a ground up build, Caspian is fairly low cost for the top quality they produce. They also allow for custom CnC work (put your name or unit on it, ect). You can piece it together and have exactly what you want (well besides it being a Colt).

If you buy a custom 1911, I would say defiantly Kimber or Springfield. For the cost you can’t beat either manufacture. I have a Kimber Custom II that has put a few Wilson Combats to shame, and it’s not even a high end 1911 for Kimber. The Springfield MC Operator is a great pistol (I owned one for a few years) and I believe it is spec’ed to the 1911 you Marines are using.

All in all you are looking at spending $1,000 to $1,500 store bought “Custom built”. If you buy ($800-$1000) and then rebuild ($500-$600) you are at roughly the same price, probably a little more. If you build ground up (get in there and help the Smith build it, ect) you could have an exact pistol for under $1,000!


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## HOLLiS (Sep 23, 2011)

I have a few others.    JAB offers some really good advice.  Also sometimes it takes a few pistols to figure out what works for you.   Being a has been grunt, I am indifferent.   Even Teufel lap top sounds lethal enough and even would be fun to splatter some one with.   

When in doubt buy more guns.


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## Teufel (Sep 23, 2011)

JAB said:


> Personally I would not buy a complete 1911 to have it reworked by a smith. I would build it up from the ground, or I would buy it built the closest to what you want. Either-or will be cheaper than buying one and then having it reworked. Also a lot of the work you could do yourself, or have an armor do, or depending on where you are I can put you in contact with some good people.
> 
> If you do a ground up build, Caspian is fairly low cost for the top quality they produce. They also allow for custom CnC work (put your name or unit on it, ect). You can piece it together and have exactly what you want (well besides it being a Colt).
> 
> ...



I wasn't thinking about too much work, just swapping out some parts.  It can't be too expensive to swap out a trigger and a beavertail?  What about the sights?  I think I can live with the ambi safety and I'll see how much play is in the beavertail.  It might be fine.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2011)

Teufel said:


> I wasn't thinking about too much work, just swapping out some parts. It can't be too expensive to swap out a trigger and a beavertail? What about the sights? I think I can live with the ambi safety and I'll see how much play is in the beavertail. It might be fine.



Well there are several variables you have to look at bro:

1.       Your budget for the firearm
2.       The cost of the firearm
3.       The cost of the parts you want to replace
4.       The cost of the gun smith (keep in mind custom fitting a beaver tail grip safety might include refinishing)

If you have to have a Colt and your budget is wide open, by all means do what you want. I own several firearms that were “I just want it” and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I am only offering up my advice based on experience with building, buying and customizing. I have always had a budget restriction of some regard, so I have learned the finer aspects of doing all the above with the least expensive way.

If you are use to running the MCBQ built 1911’s, I think you will be very satisfied with an MC Operator to be very honest. That pistol is a tac driver, very well built, very good quality control and Springfield has damn good customer service, if an issue did come up. I think you would also be satisfied with the Kimber Desert Warrior, both have the same features with everything you are looking for, both are 1.5 inch @ 25 yard 1911’s, both are priced around $1,000 to $1,200.

Again I am not saying “you should do this” just offering up advise on different options. If you are set on what you want (and I understand if you are) I’ll STFU on the advice end and help you find a smith, or parts.


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## Teufel (Sep 23, 2011)

Appreciate the advice.  I think I will go with the stock colt rail gun then, do a mild dehorn and maybe polish the chamber and flute the barrel.  I would like the plasting spring housing swapped out.  What do you think about sights?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 23, 2011)

Okay starting with the night sights, they are kind of silly with use of a tactical flashlight IMO, they really only help with that first sight picture without a flashlight at night and then after you fire it’s really hard to track them anyway (due to the muzzle flash), if you are going to have a light mounted I would not worry about the sight at all. Once you turn the light on, those sights will show perfectly with the light on target contrast. But again if you have to have them, I would look at Meprolight or Novak sights.

I did a bit of checking on the Colt RG 1911, and apparently the trigger has a small bit of slop/lag. Without changing anything you should be able to have a smith cut/trim and polish the sear/hammer and that should take care of that. You posted that you want to stay around 4.5 lbs, so I would really look at just getting a cleaner break in the trigger that comes with it. Also keep in mind a new trigger will not be drop in, they will still need to match them up to get rid of any lag or slop.

The mainspring housing is a must and I would look at Ed Browns housing/magwell replacement. They normally fit really well and the flared magwell really helps with the reloads.

Recoil spring should be matched up the gun and ammo, simply saying 18lbs for this gun is a no-go. You really want to find the best ammo the guns shoots, then test different recoil springs to get the best recoil management. I would just buy a wolf spring variable pack 14lbs to 20lbs and test each one once you have matched your ammo up.

I would not change the barrel or bushing until you have proven the gun has lost performance in accuracy. 9 times out of 10 the rack grade out of the box 1911’s will out shoot the shooters capability. I would say that most people buy a gun, put the wrong ammo through it, think it’s the barrel or bushing and spend money to replace them, when they should have matched up the ammo to the barrel/bushing it already had. I would get your training time in with the barrel that comes with it, and then have a custom fit barrel and bushing once you have shot out the stock barrel/bushing.
I am not sure on the barrel fluting or why?


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## AWP (Sep 23, 2011)

JAB said:


> I would say that most people buy a gun, put the wrong ammo through it, think it’s the barrel or bushing and spend money to replace them, when they should have matched up the ammo to the barrel/bushing it already had.



Yet surprisingly, not a lot of shooters know this or have figured it out. They go with whatever Guns and Ammo or awesomeknowitallgunsitedotcom tells them and then bitch about XXXXX's gun performance as being crap or whatever.

+1 on the Ed Brown mainspring housing. I want to say there is another reputable brand out there but they escape my memory. I'd have to go through some of the race gun websites to find them. I've heard great things about 10-8 sights but never used them myself.

Good thread.


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## pardus (Sep 23, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Good thread.



Indeed!


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## Teufel (Sep 24, 2011)

JAB said:


> Okay starting with the night sights, they are kind of silly with use of a tactical flashlight IMO, they really only help with that first sight picture without a flashlight at night and then after you fire it’s really hard to track them anyway (due to the muzzle flash), if you are going to have a light mounted I would not worry about the sight at all. Once you turn the light on, those sights will show perfectly with the light on target contrast. But again if you have to have them, I would look at Meprolight or Novak sights.
> 
> I did a bit of checking on the Colt RG 1911, and apparently the trigger has a small bit of slop/lag. Without changing anything you should be able to have a smith cut/trim and polish the sear/hammer and that should take care of that. You posted that you want to stay around 4.5 lbs, so I would really look at just getting a cleaner break in the trigger that comes with it. Also keep in mind a new trigger will not be drop in, they will still need to match them up to get rid of any lag or slop.
> 
> ...



Did I say fluted barrel?  I meant ensure the the chamber is properly throated and polish it.  Okay it comes with Novak sights, I will just keep those on it to reduce cost.  I will keep the trigger it comes with and have the smith reduce the lag.  I don't know anything about the recoil spring, just that the MEU(SOC)s had a ridiculously strong recoil spring.  Strong like altoids.  I will go with your recommendation.  What do you think about polishing the chamber/feed ramp?


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## HOLLiS (Sep 24, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> Yet surprisingly, not a lot of shooters know this or have figured it out. *They go with whatever Guns and Ammo or awesomeknowitallgunsitedotcom tells them and then bitch about XXXXX's gun performance as being crap or whatever.*
> 
> +1 on the Ed Brown mainspring housing. I want to say there is another reputable brand out there but they escape my memory. I'd have to go through some of the race gun websites to find them. I've heard great things about 10-8 sights but never used them myself.
> 
> Good thread.


 
The truth is bold.  I get a headache on those sites.  It is not honest, I don'tknowshitwillyouhelpmember,  it is the awesomeknowitalls and the techweenies.   I like cool new stuff, but I am getting to "hey it worked at Bunker Hill then, it will do now" sort of mentality.   I really like KISS.  I would rather carry more ammo and beer, than cool do dads.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 24, 2011)

Teufel said:


> Did I say fluted barrel? I meant ensure the the chamber is properly throated and polish it. Okay it comes with Novak sights, I will just keep those on it to reduce cost. I will keep the trigger it comes with and have the smith reduce the lag. I don't know anything about the recoil spring, just that the MEU(SOC)s had a ridiculously strong recoil spring. Strong like altoids. I will go with your recommendation. What do you think about polishing the chamber/feed ramp?



As far as the feed ramp/chamber polishing, if a Smith is willing to do a package deal on the trigger job and polish the throat and chamber than yeah it's a good deal. If he is going to charge you anymore than $40 for the polish job, I would say do it yourself. I can talk you through it on the phone, email or whatever, but it’s too damn easy to be honest. I would not pay to have it done, but I would not have to buy any tools or polishing compound, ect. However, if you have a drimal tool, a polish bit, and some compound it takes all of 10 minutes.

As for the recoil; it’s really something you have to experiment on and see what works the best for you. Depending on how you grip the gun, lock out your arms and what is faster for you to stay on or transition to targets, will determine the recoil spring strength. There are soooooooooo many aspects on how something as simple as a recoil spring can affect the shooting or shooter; it is really hard to detail it out. The easy explanation is for you to find the best accuracy ammo, and than using what you already know in shooting that pistol, swap out the recoil springs until you find the best times (faster time on a simple body-body-head drill), and what helps you the best with recoil management.


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## policemedic (Sep 24, 2011)

I completely agree with JAB except for a few points.

a) I think any fighting gun needs night sights.  JAB's mostly right when he says activating a pistol light with enable you to see the sights against the brightly lit target, but there are times you will be running the gun without a light, or activating the light will either not be helpful or will simply be tactically unsound.  If the gun isn't going to wear adjustable sights, there isn't a really good reason not to put tritium sights on it.  YMMV.  The only thing I don't like about my Wilson is the fact that their Combat Pyramid sights don't lend themselves well to easy one-handed slide manipulation, and Novaks are the same way (of course, it doesn't bother me enough to change them; they're dead nuts on).  If the ability to easily rack the slide one-handed is critical to you, you might want to look at something like Heinie Ledge sights and have Tool Tech install tritium tubes for you.  Just a thought.
b) If the gun is reliable out of the box, I would probably not bother paying someone to throat/polish the gun.  However, if I wanted it done, I'd give it to a smith to do rather than do it myself.  Again, YMMV.
c) FWIW, there are 18# Wilson Combat springs in my Wilson, S&W, and Para 1911s.  All run like scalded dogs.

My best advice is get the gun, take off all the packing grease, FrogLube it, and break it in.  Once that's done, proceed as JAB has suggested.

Oh yeah, thanks for making me look at the Rail Gun...now I want one :-|


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## Teufel (Sep 24, 2011)

The rail gun is the heat isn't it!!  This is really good advice fellas, I really appreciate it.  I didn't think the polishing job would cost too much, I'm certainly not willing to pay an arm and a leg for it.


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## Manolito (Sep 24, 2011)

My Son was issued this Friday however he still doesn't know if he has made the grade into SWAT yet. The end of November will tell but he is pretty on the jaz over the weapon.
Bill


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## pardus (Sep 24, 2011)

Manolito said:


> My Son was issued this Friday however he still doesn't know if he has made the grade into SWAT yet. The end of November will tell but he is pretty on the jaz over the weapon.
> Bill



That is sexy!


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## policemedic (Sep 24, 2011)

Manolito said:


> View attachment 4922
> 
> My Son was issued this Friday however he still doesn't know if he has made the grade into SWAT yet. The end of November will tell but he is pretty on the jaz over the weapon.
> Bill



Congratulations to your son.

That's a sweet looking gun.  Kimber is pretty good about working with an agency and customizing their pistols.  I like the SBSDxxx serial number, that's a nice touch.


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## policemedic (Sep 24, 2011)

Teufel said:


> The rail gun is the heat isn't it!! This is really good advice fellas, I really appreciate it. I didn't think the polishing job would cost too much, I'm certainly not willing to pay an arm and a leg for it.



It's a good, solid pistol.  One may have to magically appear in my gun safe ;)


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## TLDR20 (Sep 24, 2011)

policemedic said:


> I completely agree with JAB except for a few points.
> 
> a) I think any fighting gun needs night sights. JAB's mostly right when he says activating a pistol light with enable you to see the sights against the brightly lit target, but there are times you will be running the gun without a light, or activating the light will either not be helpful or will simply be tactically unsound. If the gun isn't going to wear adjustable sights, there isn't a really good reason not to put tritium sights on it. YMMV. The only thing I don't like about my Wilson is the fact that their Combat Pyramid sights don't lend themselves well to easy one-handed slide manipulation, and Novaks are the same way (of course, it doesn't bother me enough to change them; they're dead nuts on). If the ability to easily rack the slide one-handed is critical to you, you might want to look at something like Heinie Ledge sights and have Tool Tech install tritium tubes for you. Just a thought.
> b) If the gun is reliable out of the box, I would probably not bother paying someone to throat/polish the gun. However, if I wanted it done, I'd give it to a smith to do rather than do it myself. Again, YMMV.
> ...


One handed slide manipulation? Am I the only one who thinks this is a silly thing to think about with what Teuful waas looking for? Who really needs this, except for a one handed man. Does anyone really plan on being one armed? I know I don't. I guess I am weird for not having a contingency for that. I guess I would just throw the gun at someone.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 24, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> One handed slide manipulation? Am I the only one who thinks this is a silly thing to think about with what Teuful waas looking for? Who really needs this, except for a one handed man. Does anyone really plan on being one armed? I know I don't. I guess I am weird for not having a contingency for that. I guess I would just throw the gun at someone.



Nobody plans to be one armed, but sometimes gunfights don’t go the way we planned. I train in one handed operation of both side arm and long gun, I believe it is a must and encourage it for anyone carrying a weapon for a profession. Police medic is spot on with his post regarding have good sights (metal) with a good ledge (rear sight squared off in the top of slide) to be able to rack the slide on, either it be a Tap Rack or a reload.

ETA: It may not be what Teuful needs to worry about or what he was thinking about with sights, but you never know these days. I fully agree with PM on his post regarding sights, and thats why these threads are soooooo damn good. Things I focus on are not always "everything" that should be focused on, and so on. Same goes for the tid-bits everyone brongs into these threads. I really was not thinking one handed ops and the need to have a good rear sight, but PM nailed it on the head and he is very right.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 24, 2011)

JAB said:


> Nobody plans to be one armed, but sometimes gunfights don’t go the way we planned. I train in one handed operation of both side arm and long gun, I believe it is a must and encourage it for anyone carrying a weapon for a profession. Police medic is spot on with his post regarding have good sights (metal) with a good ledge (rear sight squared off in the top of slide) to be able to rack the slide on, either it be a Tap Rack or a reload.


I probably could manipulate my Glocks slide one handed, but I don't find that important. Maybe I am not planning accordingly for my gunfights. If someone is in my home it is not going to matter. As it won't at the range. That is my point. I think Teuful is looking for a personal pistol.


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## pardus (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm not a pistol guy. If I get a pistol and i'm forced to use it non dominate hand, what does it really matter how I rack it? Even if i fuck the sights up it's a split seconf life of death thing right? Big deal?


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 24, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> I probably could manipulate my Glocks slide one handed, but I don't find that important. Maybe I am not planning accordingly for my gunfights. If someone is in my home it is not going to matter. As it won't at the range. That is my point. I think Teuful is looking for a personal pistol.



Yeah edited my post before I saw this one…

But I understand what you are saying; I also fully understand PM’s post. I am not saying I would sacrifice a weapons function for one handed operation, but looking at it I would try to accommodate it if I am making changes.

One handed operation of the slide: catching the rear sight on the belt or an object to rack the slide fully and aggressively to the rear in order to cycle the weapon. This could be used if you can’t reach the slide lock, or the slide is fully forward, or you need to cycle out a misfire, ect, ect. Also think if you were shot in the shoulder, arm, or hand, and you lost the ability to raise your arm, use your hand or whatever. Knowing a fast and efficient technique to continue the fight would be helpful to staying alive and neutralizing the threat.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 24, 2011)

JAB said:


> One handed operation of the slide: catching the rear sight on the belt or an object to rack the slide fully and aggressively to the rear in order to cycle the weapon. This could be used if you can’t reach the slide lock, or the slide is fully forward, or you need to cycle out a misfire, ect, ect. Also think if you were shot in the shoulder, arm, or hand, and you lost the ability to raise your arm, use your hand or whatever. Knowing a fast and efficient technique to continue the fight would be helpful to staying alive and neutralizing the threat.


Oh I know what you are saying. I think that at the point my life was threatened to the point I need to one handedely rack my pistol I would seriously throw my pistol, lol. Or transition to my one good arm. If you are practicing one handed racks, I think you have too much range time.


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## policemedic (Sep 24, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> One handed slide manipulation? Am I the only one who thinks this is a silly thing to think about with what Teuful waas looking for? Who really needs this, except for a one handed man. Does anyone really plan on being one armed? I know I don't. I guess I am weird for not having a contingency for that. I guess I would just throw the gun at someone.



This is precisely why I asked if the pistol was for paper or people.  If it were meant to be used exclusively for IDPA, PPC, or some other strictly range activity my recommendations would have been totally different.  But he said the gun could be used defensively, and to me that means it has to have certain characteristics and must not have others.

I train my guys in one-handed long-gun and pistol manipulations.  They hate it.  I hate it.  But we do it.  There's a significant body of experience drawn from gunfights (both mil and LE) that tells us people sometimes lose the ability to use one arm or the other, and must adjust fire and drive on.  Being in the middle of a gunfight and shot in the right arm is not the time to realize you can't unfuck your jammed pistol (or rifle) with your support hand, or draw the pistol from its holster, access a BUG, etc.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 24, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Oh I know what you are saying. I think that at the point my life was threatened to the point I need to one handedely rack my pistol I would seriously throw my pistol, lol. Or transition to my one good arm. If you are practicing one handed racks, I think you have too much range time.


 
LMAO

You can never have enough range time!!! Never!

Well until my wife says no buying ammo this month, but by then it was already too late… lol Shooting for me is like hot chicks for other, it’s my love.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 24, 2011)

policemedic said:


> This is precisely why I asked if the pistol was for paper or people. If it were meant to be used exclusively for IDPA, PPC, or some other strictly range activity my recommendations would have been totally different. But he said the gun could be used defensively, and to me that means it has to have certain characteristics and must not have others.
> 
> I train my guys in one-handed long-gun and pistol manipulations. They hate it. I hate it. But we do it. There's a significant body of experience drawn from gunfights (both mil and LE) that tells us people sometimes lose the ability to use one arm or the other, and must adjust fire and drive on. Being in the middle of a gunfight and shot in the right arm is not the time to realize you can't unfuck your jammed pistol (or rifle) with your support hand, or draw the pistol from its holster, access a BUG, etc.


Well I don't think I am the only one that would have a horrible time drawing my pistol from its holster with my left hand. I have even less practive with fixing a malfunction. I have even less with my personally owned defensive pistol. Maybe I am a shit bag. But I don't have enough range time for that. I am not saying I disagree with training, but with the limited time I have to train with my civ pistol, I choose to be accurate so that the 2 shots I get off on a fuck face home intruder go into the balls and face respectively.


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## policemedic (Sep 24, 2011)

JAB said:


> LMAO
> 
> You can never have enough range time!!! Never!
> 
> Well until my wife says no buying ammo this month, but by then it was already too late… lol Shooting for me is like hot chicks for other, it’s my love.



If I buy that Rail Gun, I'll have plenty of range time because she'll kick me out and I'll be living out of a hooch at the gun club :-|

I would certainly try to blame Teuful, but she won't tolerate a cross word about a Marine so I'd just be fucked.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 25, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> Well I don't think I am the only one that would have a horrible time drawing my pistol from its holster with my left hand. I have even less practive with fixing a malfunction. I have even less with my personally owned defensive pistol. Maybe I am a shit bag. But I don't have enough range time for that. I am not saying I disagree with training, but with the limited time I have to train with my civ pistol, I choose to be accurate so that the 2 shots I get off on a fuck face home intruder go into the balls and face respectively.



You can do dry drills with racking the slide, drawing, reloading, ect. Takes 10 minutes of you life, maybe once a week....You could practice while your reading here on SS.;)


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## TLDR20 (Sep 25, 2011)

JAB said:


> You can do dry drills with racking the slide, drawing, reloading, ect. Takes 10 minutes of you life, maybe once a week....You could practice while your reading here on SS.;)


You mean Modding? I hope.....


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## policemedic (Sep 25, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> I choose to be accurate so that the 2 shots I get off on a fuck face home intruder go into the balls and face respectively.



I agree. I think there's tremendous value in training on and mastering the skills you are most likely to use. Hell, that's what I do (9/10ths of the time, anyway).


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 25, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> You mean Modding? I hope.....



Yeah or that.


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## policemedic (Sep 25, 2011)

pardus said:


> I'm not a pistol guy. If I get a pistol and i'm forced to use it non dominate hand, what does it really matter how I rack it? Even if i fuck the sights up it's a split seconf life of death thing right? Big deal?



It doesn't matter, though some methods are more efficient and some sights are more suited to the maneuver.  I've used the rear sight off my thigh, a holster, a belt and my boot heel.  I've used the front sight, which I don't recommend (particularly with Glocks) but any port in a storm.  You can use the corner of the ejection port as well.

It's not so much a matter of fucking up the sights as the sights not being conducive to the maneuver.  Slick and smooth sights like Novaks don't lend themselves well to the move because they slide off the item you're using for leverage.  On the other hand, sights like the Heinie Ledge or Trijicon HD work like a dream.  The caveat here is that it is entirely possible to break the plastic sights on Glocks doing this (done it, seen it).

If you unfuck the gun and mangle or break off the front sight in the process at very close range, no sweat.  But at distance...

The other point is while your technique doesn't really matter, you need to be familiar with one or two so you don't have to invent one on the fly.


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## AWP (Sep 25, 2011)

The beauty of TTP's and tools for the toolbox: Some guys may see their value, others may not. Personally, I like having more tools than I need, but Big Boy Rules apply. We all "pays our money and takes our chances."


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## HOLLiS (Sep 25, 2011)

Freefalling said:


> The beauty of TTP's and tools for the toolbox: Some guys may see their value, others may not. Personally, I like having more tools than I need, but Big Boy Rules apply. We all "pays our money and takes our chances."



I think one of the worse things to happen, in the middle of a project, you need a specialized tool that you do not have.    They can make a 5 minute job, 5 minutes, with out them the job can be much longer, the part ruined, or damaged.    Living rural, I tend to stock up on consumables too.    A trip into town is costly in both time and money, a ten cent part becomes very expensive.  That has a little down side to it.


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## HOLLiS (Sep 25, 2011)

JAB said:


> You can do dry drills with racking the slide, drawing, reloading, ect. Takes 10 minutes of you life, maybe once a week....You could practice while your reading here on SS.;)


Big 2X....................... Don't like the news reported on TV,  Drill time.   Practice transition, Sight alignment,  There are all kinds of things one can do to improve trigger movement, tons of stuff one can with having the make the pistol go bang.    Speer use to sell, plastic cases with plastic bullets powered only by the primer for indoor shooting.  Maybe not the best choice, but better than nothing.

One Agency that I worked for, I lived in the county and shooting was never a issue.   I would shoot 500 rds per month for pistol.   One reason why off hand is difficult, it is never used. So it has to catch up to "how many years old you are" in learning process that the dominant hand has.    Eyes can be trained too, though a little more care is needed, not to over work the "lazy eye" at first.    Doing so is like getting a Freddie to run a 5 min mile (probably kill him).     I live rural now... well I have no excuse.  I probably have a month or so to get up to speed before the Zombies make it out this far from their feeding holes (cities)


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## TLDR20 (Sep 25, 2011)

HOLLiS said:


> Big 2X....................... Don't like the news reported on TV, Drill time. Practice transition, Sight alignment, There are all kinds of things one can do to improve trigger movement, tons of stuff one can with having the make the pistol go bang. Speer use to sell, plastic cases with plastic bullets powered only by the primer for indoor shooting. Maybe not the best choice, but better than nothing.
> 
> One Agency that I worked for, I lived in the county and shooting was never a issue. I would shoot 500 rds per month for pistol. One reason why off hand is difficult, it is never used. So it has to catch up to "how many years old you are" in learning process that the dominant hand has. Eyes can be trained too, though a little more care is needed, not to over work the "lazy eye" at first. Doing so is like getting a Freddie to run a 5 min mile (probably kill him). I live rural now... well I have no excuse. I probably have a month or so to get up to speed before the Zombies make it out this far from their feeding holes (cities)


I am one of those strange ambidextrous folks who shoots better off hand than strong hand. lol. I should be left handed but for some reason am right handed. If I didn't have so much muscle memory right handed I would shoot lefty. I actually forgot my glasses in SUT and had to shoot left handed to qualify(my right eye used to be really bad before LASIK). I shot better.


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## HOLLiS (Sep 25, 2011)

cback0220 said:


> I am one of those strange ambidextrous folks who shoots better off hand than strong hand. lol. I should be left handed but for some reason am right handed. If I didn't have so much muscle memory right handed I would shoot lefty. I actually forgot my glasses in SUT and had to shoot left handed to qualify(my right eye used to be really bad before LASIK). I shot better.



Maybe in being ambidextrous, you are more of a lefty than a righty. That was my issue. As a kid I play base ball and batted/pitched both left and right. At that time, it was easier being a righty because that was how most people thought things. I was also not the best athlete. When I went to HS, I thought, I should focus more on one side, maybe I might be a better athlete then. For ambidextrous people, they have choices that are easier than a very dominant one sided, who just has to work harder to get the off hand to perform well enough.


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## TLDR20 (Sep 25, 2011)

HOLLiS said:


> Maybe in being ambidextrous, you are more of a lefty than a righty. That was my issue. As a kid I play base ball and batted/pitched both left and right. At that time, it was easier being a righty because that was how most people thought things. I was also not the best athlete. When I went to HS, I thought, I should focus more on one side, maybe I might be a better athlete then. For ambidextrous people, they have choices that are easier than a very dominant one sided, who just has to work harder to get the off hand to perform well enough.


Yeah my mom told me when I was a child I always did everything left handed and she would put things in my right hand(fork, crayon, whatever). I bat better left handed. I am left eye dominant. I guess I am just weird.


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## Manolito (Sep 25, 2011)

I have never read an after action report where the military analyzed shooting hands and pistols. The FBI and several other agencys have and found that the hand holding the weapon often becomes the target for the opposition. This results in the dominate hand becoming disabled. Practicing one handed reload and racking the slide is part of my CCW instructors course. I am totally left handed but I shoot right handed and I think it has to do with my dominate eye. I can tell you at my age this skill is very perishable.


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## Diamondback 2/2 (Sep 25, 2011)

Just to toss some tid-bits out there…

My experience in training thousands of soldiers is that most right handed people are left eye dominate and most left handed are right eye dominate. I have also found that the eye dominate “issue” is actually a non-issue, in that unless there is an actual vision impairment, either eye can in fact bring the sights into focus.

I have also found that most new shooters will actually shoot better in their less dominate hand due to focusing on the basic fundamentals.  I have also found that it easier to train a person with bad habits to shoot better by use of their non dominate hand (forces them to apply the basics with a hand they have not  established bad habits and makes it easier to apply it to the hand with bad habits).

There are a few studies regarding hands and arms (especially the actual weapon) being shot in close quarters engagements. It is primarily due to people focusing on the perceived threat which is the actual weapon it’s self. At close range you will see the weapon of your opponent and will actually engage the weapon vs the person holding it. I have experienced this a bunch in sims training…


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